# Dreadnought!! Forbidden...



## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Sexy... 

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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Official Page: Dreadnought Frame

Review: First Ride: Forbidden Dreadnought - Video | Beta MTB

Lets talk all things dreadnought in here.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Reserved

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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

Really well done review by Beta. Glad to see Forbidden step into the long travel game. Should provide an awesome platform for enduro racers and bike park duties.


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## Valsmere (Mar 26, 2007)

Looking forwars to this one and seeing some build ups


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

Seeing as Forbidden is now sponsoring half of YouTube, do they even have bikes to sell?


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## Snowsed341 (Jun 16, 2015)

I think they will likely have real stock starting May according to the website. I am gonna start planning my build around summer ETA. I really want the NERDs colorway but that is Q3 according to the website. I think the XT build is an OK value but for 500 more you can probably build something with carbon wheels custom if you shop the internet for deals.

I am really excited by this bike and hope we get lots of pictures posted and feedback once the bikes are in the wild more.


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## Snowsed341 (Jun 16, 2015)

I was also thinking based on the Beta guys review that if the bike is already hard to pop and jump then maybe air is the way to go if that is your required taste. 

Do you guys think that the coil will actually make the bike too planted? I enjoy a planted bike as i'm not much of a jumper but I do like to be able to pop the bike around from time to time.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

I dont think you would buy a high pivot long travel bike and expect it to be that great at jumps? for me personally - I love riding steep techy stuff. so I'm going full custom build on the ready inc a mullet setup. after all the reading I did about how it all works - it just made a lot of sense to me - and so pulled the trigger.

i think I have a deepspace 9 coming my way.


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

I'll post thoughts as soon as I get mine. Got an XL deep space 9 with 11/6 coming my way. Curious to see how I like the cs length as the short cs on my XL sb150 was my main complaint about the bike. I've got all the parts ready to go, although I may have to run a trust shout initially until my ext era comes in. (I originally got the shout for my sb150 but wasn't a huge fan so switched to a fox 38 which I sold with the sb150 frame)


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

adurant said:


> I'll post thoughts as soon as I get mine. Got an XL deep space 9 with 11/6 coming my way. Curious to see how I like the cs length as the short cs on my XL sb150 was my main complaint about the bike. I've got all the parts ready to go, although I may have to run a trust shout initially until my ext era comes in. (I originally got the shout for my sb150 but wasn't a huge fan so switched to a fox 38 which I sold with the sb150 frame)


do you know when your frame is due?


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

onawave said:


> do you know when your frame is due?


Not exactly but I was told mine would ship out in a week or two at most. Add a weekish for transit and hopefully 2-3 weeks... Can't freaking wait. Especially after reading/watching the Beta mtb review of it, it sounds exactly like what I was hoping/looking for. I've ridden a Spec enduro on multiple occasions and in parks vs my 150 it made me crave slightly more bike but the tradeoff was that it felt almost a bit too plush at times like there wasn't anything to push/pump off of especially compared to the sb150. Hoping it'll give me similar stability/ploughability as the enduro without the too deep/plush suspension feeling.


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## Snowsed341 (Jun 16, 2015)

onawave said:


> I dont think you would buy a high pivot long travel bike and expect it to be that great at jumps? for me personally - I love riding steep techy stuff. so I'm going full custom build on the ready inc a mullet setup. after all the reading I did about how it all works - it just made a lot of sense to me - and so pulled the trigger.
> 
> i think I have a deepspace 9 coming my way.


 I too ride steep and loose trails not much of a jumper at all. Infact the Beta review is a trail I ride regularly and that is considered intermediate as far as tech in my books.

I'm talking about popping off square edge hits, changing directions , or popping from an obstacle to another. Just general riding moves required for steep, rocky, techy trails.

I just think if the bike is a ploughing machine that an air shock could aid in this. The coil might make it a chore

again this is just theory and I have 0 evidence to support this just basing this off the beta review.

Thoughts??


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

Snowsed341 said:


> I too ride steep and loose trails not much of a jumper at all. Infact the Beta review is a trail I ride regularly and that is considered intermediate as far as tech in my books.
> 
> I'm talking about popping off square edge hits, changing directions , or popping from an obstacle to another. Just general riding moves required for steep, rocky, techy trails.
> 
> ...


So I don't have a ton of experience on high end coils myself (although I'll be reporting back shortly) but I've seen several people who have gone from an x2 to an ext storia or push 11/6 who report that they gain mid stroke support and the bike almost feels more poppy. Granted an x2 is not exactly a supportive or poppy shock. I'd say it really depends on how fast your riding down said trails. If its steep and super technical to the point that its pretty low speed then you may want a poppier bike with like a dpx2. However I find that if you can keep your speed up high enough you can pop or move any bike or shock around. You'll hear tons of reviewers talking about big enduro bikes "coming to life" at higher speeds. Hell on certain trails a big enduro bike allows me to go comfortably so much faster than on a shorter poppier trail bike that the enduro bike almost ends up feeling poppier.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

adurant said:


> So I don't have a ton of experience on high end coils myself (although I'll be reporting back shortly) but I've seen several people who have gone from an x2 to an ext storia or push 11/6 who report that they gain mid stroke support and the bike almost feels more poppy. Granted an x2 is not exactly a supportive or poppy shock. I'd say it really depends on how fast your riding down said trails. If its steep and super technical to the point that its pretty low speed then you may want a poppier bike with like a dpx2. However I find that if you can keep your speed up high enough you can pop or move any bike or shock around. You'll hear tons of reviewers talking about big enduro bikes "coming to life" at higher speeds. Hell on certain trails a big enduro bike allows me to go comfortably so much faster than on a shorter poppier trail bike that the enduro bike almost ends up feeling poppier.


would agree with this. I'm currently running a dhx2 on a sb150. the bike very much rides much better faster on steeper stuff.

I'm moving to a push on the dready - so my basic understanding of that shock - is that its basically two shocks in one. one for flowy / jump trails and one for dh. looking forward to it.


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## Snowsed341 (Jun 16, 2015)

onawave said:


> would agree with this. I'm currently running a dhx2 on a sb150. the bike very much rides much better faster on steeper stuff.
> 
> I'm moving to a push on the dready - so my basic understanding of that shock - is that its basically two shocks in one. one for flowy / jump trails and one for dh. looking forward to it.


Having owned an 11/6 on my Wreckoning, you have to specify to Push the tune you want for each circuit. Most come setup as a climb and DH mode. I would hit push up to see how they tuned the shocks for the bike.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Snowsed341 said:


> Having owned an 11/6 on my Wreckoning, you have to specify to Push the tune you want for each circuit. Most come setup as a climb and DH mode. I would hit push up to see how they tuned the shocks for the bike.


my mate just got a new evil with push. he has basically tweaked his "up" climb to jump and flow switch.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Have an xl nerds push on pre-order. What do you guys think about running a 160 fork on it? Thinking it might be a better option for where I ride.


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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

It wouldn't effect the geometry all that much so you would probably be fine. It would steepen the head angle a bit and lower the bottom bracket. But, if you really are worried that a 170 or 180 fork might be too much for your riding, I suggest maybe looking at a different bike all together. This bike will be a beast no matter what fork length you are running on it.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

I've been looking for a long-travel 29er to add to my stable - ideally around150mm travel and reasonable weight. I have been leaning towards a Sentinel v2. But, the Dreadnought looks sweet. I still have an older Canfield Jedi DH bike, which I love. Looking at reviews however, it seems most of the test bikes aren't particularly light (33-34 lbs). Forbidden doesn't list frame weights for their bikes on their website.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

yangpei said:


> I've been looking for a long-travel 29er to add to my stable - ideally around150mm travel and reasonable weight. I have been leaning towards a Sentinel v2. But, the Dreadnought looks sweet. I still have an older Canfield Jedi DH bike, which I love. Looking at reviews however, it seems most of the test bikes aren't particularly light (33-34 lbs). Forbidden doesn't list frame weights for their bikes on their website.


hard to get a burly bike made for steeps without the weight I would say. i currently ride a yeti 150 - which is a pretty heavy bike. I'm just used to it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Don't need or even have use for a Dreadnaught but want a Dreadnaught just cause it's sick.
Will enjoy watching what some of the guys do with this bike.

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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

djbutcher13 said:


> Have an xl nerds push on pre-order. What do you guys think about running a 160 fork on it? Thinking it might be a better option for where I ride.


The Druid comes with a 160mm fork and is a very capable bike, punching above it's 130mm of rear travel... It might be better suited..?


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

powderturns said:


> The Druid comes with a 160mm fork and is a very capable bike, punching above it's 130mm of rear travel... It might be better suited..?


i thought it was 150 / 130?


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

shoot - you're right - 150 spec but I've heard of guys running 160 forks and believe it's been tested to 160.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

powderturns said:


> shoot - you're right - 150 spec but I've heard of guys running 160 forks and believe it's been tested to 160.


Pretty sure you will void warranty if you run it at 160


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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

Depends on the fork that you are looking to run. Forbidden says you can run a fork with a max axle to crown of 571mm. A fox 36 at 160mm falls right at 571mm and that is why you see quite a few people running those at 160mm travel. Most other forks on the market would be a little too long and void the warranty though.


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## gubbinalia (May 11, 2020)

Does anyone know why Fanatik Bike (Forbidden's US importer) is offering the Float X2 shock and the Push 11/6 on Dreadnought frames, but not the EXT Storia? Is it related to production delays at EXT in Italy? I reached out to Fanatik and my contact said, in essence, "we don't know, ask Forbidden," and Forbidden hasn't gotten back to me. Thinking strongly about getting a frame on order but would much rather order the EXT if possible.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

gubbinalia said:


> Does anyone know why Fanatik Bike (Forbidden's US importer) is offering the Float X2 shock and the Push 11/6 on Dreadnought frames, but not the EXT Storia? Is it related to production delays at EXT in Italy? I reached out to Fanatik and my contact said, in essence, "we don't know, ask Forbidden," and Forbidden hasn't gotten back to me. Thinking strongly about getting a frame on order but would much rather order the EXT if possible.


would be availability and support. the ext may be a better shock - but you also need to take into account the post sales / support process. esp during covid


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## gubbinalia (May 11, 2020)

onawave said:


> would be availability and support. the ext may be a better shock - but you also need to take into account the post sales / support process. esp during covid


The availability narrative makes a good deal of sense -- I've heard that EXT has several-month lead times for some of their products right now (but much shorter lead times for more common shock sizes, supposedly). The post-sales support for EXT now that they have an American office is supposed to be excellent -- at least on par with Push if not better. Then again, Fanatik has been selling Push for a while so that may be a pre-existing, strong vendor/manufacturer relationship.

I'm sure the Push product would be excellent, but there's definitely reason to believe that the EXT would be superior for someone looking for the ultra-low-hysteresis damper action (i.e., less aggressive rider on technical terrain without massive hits). My knowledge of coils is admittedly limited so feel free to tell me where/how I'm wrong!


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

gubbinalia said:


> The availability narrative makes a good deal of sense -- I've heard that EXT has several-month lead times for some of their products right now (but much shorter lead times for more common shock sizes, supposedly). The post-sales support for EXT now that they have an American office is supposed to be excellent -- at least on par with Push if not better. Then again, Fanatik has been selling Push for a while so that may be a pre-existing, strong vendor/manufacturer relationship.
> 
> I'm sure the Push product would be excellent, but there's definitely reason to believe that the EXT would be superior for someone looking for the ultra-low-hysteresis damper action (i.e., less aggressive rider on technical terrain without massive hits). My knowledge of coils is admittedly limited so feel free to tell me where/how I'm wrong!


i don't think really you can go wrong either way. if your just an avg rider like me (I max out at double blacks - but love steep stuff) either of those shocks will be such a huge upgrade.

if I have the extra budget - id actually go the ext fork. that seems to make a lot more sense. the only difference is really that it runs 36 stanchions vs the new fox 38.


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## gubbinalia (May 11, 2020)

onawave said:


> i don't think really you can go wrong either way. if your just an avg rider like me (I max out at double blacks - but love steep stuff) either of those shocks will be such a huge upgrade.
> 
> if I have the extra budget - id actually go the ext fork. that seems to make a lot more sense. the only difference is really that it runs 36 stanchions vs the new fox 38.


Very fair point. One of my coworkers has the Era on his fork and I must say, it really rocks the parking-lot test. How it would feel when you can't service it because you haven't successfully sourced the specialty oil, and can't find anyone within 1000 miles to do a damper rebuild... is a different question.

I would not bump up to a 38mm-stanchioned fork on the Dreadnought, even though Forbidden recommends it and it comes spec'ed on the bike. I understand the argument that a stiffer fork will be plusher because it avoids bushing bind more effectively, but plush telescoping travel is not the only way a fork absorbs bumps. I'm the odd person who prefers a more compliant front end that will absorb some of the hand-jarring forces that 8-12hr. days in the saddle can deal out. The Fox 36 is about as much forward/rearward stiffness as I can take in a fork without having major hand/arm/wrist/shoulder fatigue afterward. Charging through a rock garden at top speed with pinpoint front wheel accuracy is wonderful, but not conducive to long rides and happy wrists.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

gubbinalia said:


> Very fair point. One of my coworkers has the Era on his fork and I must say, it really rocks the parking-lot test. How it would feel when you can't service it because you haven't successfully sourced the specialty oil, and can't find anyone within 1000 miles to do a damper rebuild... is a different question.
> 
> I would not bump up to a 38mm-stanchioned fork on the Dreadnought, even though Forbidden recommends it and it comes spec'ed on the bike. I understand the argument that a stiffer fork will be plusher because it avoids bushing bind more effectively, but plush telescoping travel is not the only way a fork absorbs bumps. I'm the odd person who prefers a more compliant front end that will absorb some of the hand-jarring forces that 8-12hr. days in the saddle can deal out. The Fox 36 is about as much forward/rearward stiffness as I can take in a fork without having major hand/arm/wrist/shoulder fatigue afterward. Charging through a rock garden at top speed with pinpoint front wheel accuracy is wonderful, but not conducive to long rides and happy wrists.


for my personally - id will end up going for the 38. the type of riding I do - it makes sense. and if I want more plushness in the future - ill add something from vorsprung or push when they release their upgrades for 38's.

just the way the bike is designed says to me i want to point it downhill and be fast. so the 38 makes a lot of sense.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

Only 170 mm option from Fox in 2021 is 38 Float. I’ve been looking for leftover 2020 Fox 36 Float 170’s as they’re significantly lighter than the 38 Float 170’s, but haven’t found any for sale.


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## greyshrike (Mar 8, 2020)

Just received my medium stealth 11.6 frame today.










The finish on my frame has a couple of mm long scratches, micro dirt specks in the paint, and some rough carbon molding/paint in a couple of the cable openings. The frame is expensive, so I kind of regret looking so closely. It is just a bike though and these are just very minor blemishes.










































The top tube has the model name and three lines in glossy dark green and grey. I like the look of this and think it's quite handsome, but I think there's a bit of an awkward contrast with the big white forbidden letters on the downtube and white headbadge.










The internal frame storage by the BB is pretty neat.
I can just barely fit a standard inner tube (folded more lengthwise) and the included spare derailleur hanger.

















The rubber shuttle guard is included separately so you can place it wherever you want. The adhesive looks pretty thin, so I'm a bit skeptical on how well it'll hold on long term.










Just waiting on a few more parts to come in before I start building it up. But I pretty much just went full retard along with whatever was regurgitated the most on pinkbike's comment section.

I'm excited to get it built up and see how it rips.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

3M makes adhesive prep wipes. You can get them at a body shop supply store. Clean the frame where you want to place the guard, wipe the area with the prep wipe and install the guard. It won't come off.


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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

Considering that you won’t see any of those “flaws” once the bike is built up and has been ridden, I wouldn’t let it bother me. If you ride the bike like it is designed to be ridden, you will probably have it looking a lot worse than that in no time.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

onawave said:


> Pretty sure you will void warranty if you run it at 160


Naw, Forbidden tested it with a 160 Fox 36 and it's G2G. They will have hopefully changed the warranty page on the website by now...


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

After much deliberation, I decided to pre-order a Dreadnought. I found a lightly used 2020 Fox 36 Float 170mm fork. Gonna try to build it up on the lighter side - hopefully around 32 lbs.


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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

Good luck, that’s lighter than most people’s Druid builds


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## gubbinalia (May 11, 2020)

QuickSilverZ said:


> Good luck, that's lighter than most people's Druid builds


Agreed, and that's part of the reason why the Druid fits in my quiver better than the Dreadnought. It was really hard, on paper, for me to spec out a Dread build that was matched in terms of suspension and wheels to the intentions of the bike without it ballooning into the 35-36lb range, even with a lighter fork (say, 170mm Lyrik or 36) and an air shock. The capability of the bike really demands heavy duty rims (DT Swiss EX-grade or WAO Strife) and legit dual-ply tires (DD or DH casing). Then when I started thinking about the EXT option and potentially a coil conversion in the fork, the on-paper weight grew even more and I couldn't justify that kind of bike as any sort of pedal-able trail/enduro option -- it would be a shuttle/park rig. My Druid build will be ~31-31.5lbs with coil rear, air front, 2.4 Maxxis EXO+ tires, Cushcore XC inserts, and 1750g wheels... and that's about as light as I can imagine going, spec-wise, on a bike that's built the way the Druid is. Weight is less and less an issue these days with the suspension kinematics improving so drastically for pedaling, but it still matters; I can't imagine a 5-6k' pedaling day on a 37lb. bike being much fun.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

QuickSilverZ said:


> Good luck, that's lighter than most people's Druid builds


The Sentinel build I had spec'd out was about 30 lbs even on paper. The Dreadnought frame is about 1.5 lbs heavier than the Sentinel and a Fox 38 170mm fork is probably another 0.4-0.5 lbs heavier than the Fox 36 160mm fork. So, the same build should theoretically come out around 32 lbs and change. I guess we'll see 

On the plus side, I was able to find a barely used 2020 Fox 36 Float 170mm fork


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

Subbing cause im kinda wanting to order one in May when fanatik gets them. Im currently on a banshee prime V3 which is super sick but im wanting to swap the frame out for something different just for comparisons sake. Build would swap nicely; 160mm Zeb ultimate, reserve 30s, etc, but im wondering if maybe i should just get a druid since its 130mm rear...hmm


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

MyDadSucks said:


> Subbing cause im kinda wanting to order one in May when fanatik gets them. Im currently on a banshee prime V3 which is super sick but im wanting to swap the frame out for something different just for comparisons sake. Build would swap nicely; 160mm Zeb ultimate, reserve 30s, etc, but im wondering if maybe i should just get a druid since its 130mm rear...hmm


LOVE the Banshee Prime. That was such a sweet bike. I kinda wish I still had it...


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

pinkrobe said:


> LOVE the Banshee Prime. That was such a sweet bike. I kinda wish I still had it...


Picking this up because my brand new Titan V3 was stolen. Got about 25 hours on it. Really liked it but I like trying new things so insurance is getting me a Forbidden.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

djbutcher13 said:


> Picking this up because my brand new Titan V3 was stolen. Got about 25 hours on it. Really liked it but I like trying new things so insurance is getting me a Forbidden.


Damn that really sucks. Hopefully you get your forbidden soon.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

djbutcher13 said:


> Picking this up because my brand new Titan V3 was stolen. Got about 25 hours on it. Really liked it but I like trying new things so insurance is getting me a Forbidden.


Oh hell! That sucks, but at least you're getting a new bike...


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

djbutcher13 said:


> Picking this up because my brand new Titan V3 was stolen. Got about 25 hours on it. Really liked it but I like trying new things so insurance is getting me a Forbidden.


Thinking of going from a Titan to the Dreadnought too so very interested in what you think when you get it.


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

djbutcher13 said:


> Have an xl nerds push on pre-order. What do you guys think about running a 160 fork on it? Thinking it might be a better option for where I ride.


who'd you pre-order from? Does Fanatik do pre-orders?


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

springs said:


> Thinking of going from a Titan to the Dreadnought too so very interested in what you think when you get it.


What are you not liking about your titan?


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

powderturns said:


> who'd you pre-order from? Does Fanatik do pre-orders?


Yes. They said april/may so going to be a little while. Who knows maybe they over estimated


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

djbutcher13 said:


> Yes. They said april/may so going to be a little while. Who knows maybe they over estimated


I have my frameset in large preordered from fanatik too, hope to see it soon


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

MyDadSucks said:


> What are you not liking about your titan?


New bike itch mainly. To be critical I would like more seat tube insertion and a very slightly shorter chainstay but apart from that it's mainly new bike itch. Titan is a sensational bike.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

springs said:


> New bike itch mainly. To be critical I would like more seat tube insertion and a very slightly shorter chainstay but apart from that it's mainly new bike itch. Titan is a sensational bike.


i get the new bike itch too. I read "slightly shorter chainstay" and got confused, but then i remembered not everyone rides an XL haha. 465mm static is enormous so im not totally sold on the dreadnought


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

MyDadSucks said:


> i get the new bike itch too. I read "slightly shorter chainstay" and got confused, but then i remembered not everyone rides an XL haha. 465mm static is enormous so im not totally sold on the dreadnought


Yeah my xl is going to be over a foot wider than my GTI. Should look interesting


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Forbidden Dreadnought XT first ride review


Can the Dreadnought bring high-pivot supremacy to the battle of the enduro bikes?




www.bikeradar.com


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

springs said:


> Forbidden Dreadnought XT first ride review
> 
> 
> Can the Dreadnought bring high-pivot supremacy to the battle of the enduro bikes?
> ...


That is a pretty rough review and opposite a lot of the other First Ride impressions out there


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

The high Anti-rise is a real shame for this platform. Personally I'm not a fan of AR in general and it's not something you can change.
I would have wanted this category of bike with this suspension design to feel bottomless. But a coil shock will create a significantly different feel.
That said, it's only 1 review by 1 person. It's also the best looking bike I've ever laid eyes upon!

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> The high Anti-rise is a real shame for this platform. Personally I'm not a fan of AR in general and it's not something you can change.
> I would have wanted this category of bike with this suspension design to feel bottomless. But a coil shock will create a significantly different feel.
> That said, it's only 1 review by 1 person. It's also the best looking bike I've ever laid eyes upon!
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


Tired of seeing all these black bikes. Can't wait to see someone post some photos of the nerds in real life


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

Salespunk said:


> That is a pretty rough review and opposite a lot of the other First Ride impressions out there


The reviews on this bike have been laughable. I have two "very playful's" noted and one "not at all playful" so far, along with one "perhaps the best descending non-DH bike I've ridden" and one "nothing special". My two cents; a "first ride" is not the right venue for a review of this type of bike - it's too different and requires some setup and adjustment. I bet the Dreadnought rips but anyone who owns a Druid can likely speak to the break-in period. In this case, it's not the bike getting broken in - it's you. It DOES take 4-5 rides to adjust to some of the ride characteristics of the bike and make final suspension tweaks. Stuff that's been said like "the bike is hard to manual"... well, if you suck at manuals, then you will suck with them on this bike too, but if you can manual, it might take a few days, but you'll figure it out and be able to manual a Druid. I'm guessing the Dreadnought is the same, only moreso.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

powderturns said:


> The reviews on this bike have been laughable. I have two "very playful's" noted and one "not at all playful" so far, along with one "perhaps the best descending non-DH bike I've ridden" and one "nothing special". My two cents; a "first ride" is not the right venue for a review of this type of bike - it's too different and requires some setup and adjustment. I bet the Dreadnought rips but anyone who owns a Druid can likely speak to the break-in period. In this case, it's not the bike getting broken in - it's you. It DOES take 4-5 rides to adjust to some of the ride characteristics of the bike and make final suspension tweaks. Stuff that's been said like "the bike is hard to manual"... well, if you suck at manuals, then you will suck with them on this bike too, but if you can manual, it might take a few days, but you'll figure it out and be able to manual a Druid. I'm guessing the Dreadnought is the same, only moreso.


The longer you are in this hobby and the more bikes you buy the more you realize that reviews are useless. There's too many variables. Weight, height, skill, components, weather, trail location, did their girlfriend break up with them the night before...

In the end all modern bikes are fantastic and the only thing that will make them not fun is your own preconceived notions from reading too many reviews. If you can, test ride a few bikes and see which one makes you smile the most. Otherwise look at a bunch of photos of them and see which one makes you the most excited to go ride.

I bought this bike because I saw the photo of the nerds color and had to have it. It made me excited to ride. Simple.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Subscribed ... 

My L stealth is mid build in Comox atm, looking forward to the call saying it's ready. I agree with what has been said, from everything I've read on the Druid and this bike, seems this design rides quite differently and takes time to get used to so the quick reviews don't tell the whole story imo.

I'm not a huge jumper guy so this will be perfect for Shore and Sea to Sky corridor riding. I went EXT for the shock and 38 up front.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

I just saw that Deviate came out with their long-travel high pivot bike.






Highlander 150 — Deviate Cycles







www.deviatecycles.com





Looks interesting, but doesn't have as cool a name as the Dreadnought!


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

yangpei said:


> The Sentinel build I had spec'd out was about 30 lbs even on paper. The Dreadnought frame is about 1.5 lbs heavier than the Sentinel and a Fox 38 170mm fork is probably another 0.4-0.5 lbs heavier than the Fox 36 160mm fork. So, the same build should theoretically come out around 32 lbs and change. I guess we'll see
> 
> On the plus side, I was able to find a barely used 2020 Fox 36 Float 170mm fork


that can't be right - can it? the Dreadnought is 7.3 lbs with a PUSH according to Fanatik. The Sentinel is 3.2kg with a float X2, so 7.1lbs, per bike rumour: 








2021 Transition Sentinel 29er trail bike gets 150mm out back w/updated leverage curve


The 2021 Transition Sentinel mountain bike has landed with 150mm rear wheel travel, longer chainstays and a 160mm short offset fork for SBG geometry.




bikerumor.com


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## Snowsed341 (Jun 16, 2015)

powderturns said:


> that can't be right - can it? the Dreadnought is 7.3 lbs with a PUSH according to Fanatik. The Sentinel is 3.2kg with a float X2, so 7.1lbs, per bike rumour:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm guessing 7.3 is without a shock. No way this bike is that with a coil even in size small. Most coiled Druids are 34-36 lbs fully built. Go look at the Fanatik build weights for fully built coiled druids. I think you will be hard pressed to find one under 33lbs.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

powderturns said:


> that can't be right - can it? the Dreadnought is 7.3 lbs with a PUSH according to Fanatik. The Sentinel is 3.2kg with a float X2, so 7.1lbs, per bike rumour:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fanatik bike builder shows med Dreadnought with Float X2 at 8.77 lbs / with PUSH at 9.1 lbs. They show a large Sentinel with Float X2 at 7.08 lbs.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

That's only about (edited) 2# heavier than my '21 Evo S5 frame with an EXT. Not to much to worry about, the weight is mostly in the build you choose.


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

yangpei said:


> Fanatik bike builder shows med Dreadnought with Float X2 at 8.77 lbs / with PUSH at 9.1 lbs. They show a large Sentinel with Float X2 at 7.08 lbs.


Yea I weighed my XL dreadnought with 11/6 (including axle, idler, and chainguide) and got 9.4 pounds on two different scales.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

For those looking into frame protection - RideWrap sent me an email today letting me know they are sending out an updated version of the downtube piece with the appropriate cutout for the downtube protector.


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## Energ8t (Sep 10, 2013)

QuickSilverZ said:


> Good luck, that's lighter than most people's Druid builds


Yeah, my Druid XT is around ~34 lbs with Push coil, Secus/Runt, frame stuffed with tube and pedals. Doesn't have carbon wheels, but does have OneUp carbon bars. Could drop a pound or so with carbon rims. Don't really feel it on the trail though.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

I have a complete XT on order from The Inside Line bike shop here in Calgary. I stopped by the other day to look for a new full face helmet and they had a Dreadnought frame on the wall. I was able to take it off the wall and give it a good look. It had an 11-6 installed. It's definitely not light but you can tell it's a burly frame meant for hard riding. I'm not overly concerned with the weight and the build quality seemed very high. Got me even more jacked for my bike to arrive. May feels like an eternity from now!


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## Grubs (Apr 25, 2019)

TLD80 said:


> I have a complete XT on order from The Inside Line bike shop here in Calgary. I stopped by the other day to look for a new full face helmet and they had a Dreadnought frame on the wall. I was able to take it off the wall and give it a good look. It had an 11-6 installed. It's definitely not light but you can tell it's a burly frame meant for hard riding. I'm not overly concerned with the weight and the build quality seemed very high. Got me even more jacked for my bike to arrive. May feels like an eternity from now!


Any idea what the timeframe is on those? Or if they have frames available? Curious if it's any different than ordering on the forbidden website.


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

I was told May to early June. It sucks to wait that long but that's why I have a dirt bike too. As far as frames go I don't know what they have available. I called the day after the Dreadnought was announced and they had already sold a dozen of them. I'd make a phone call and check. I'm fairly new to the Calgary area and this is my first interaction with The Inside Line Bike Shop but I'll say I am super impressed. Very helpful, knowledgeable and just plain nice people.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

gubbinalia said:


> Does anyone know why Fanatik Bike (Forbidden's US importer) is offering the Float X2 shock and the Push 11/6 on Dreadnought frames, but not the EXT Storia? Is it related to production delays at EXT in Italy? I reached out to Fanatik and my contact said, in essence, "we don't know, ask Forbidden," and Forbidden hasn't gotten back to me. Thinking strongly about getting a frame on order but would much rather order the EXT if possible.


EXT was shipping storia's within a week when I ordered mine a couple months ago.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Black's cycle in Cumberland have been moving completed builds out the door for a little while now, their instagram feed has a few pics. Mine should be ready in about a week. 

This thread desperately needs pics ...


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

HubbaMan said:


> Black's cycle in Cumberland have been moving completed builds out the door for a little while now, their instagram feed has a few pics. Mine should be ready in about a week.
> 
> This thread desperately needs pics ...


I know I still haven't found a complete build in the Nerds colorway


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

djbutcher13 said:


> I know I still haven't found a complete build in the Nerds colorway


i would've liked to just find an xl frame in the deep space 9. went a different direction though as i didn't want to wait till may


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

djbutcher13 said:


> I know I still haven't found a complete build in the Nerds colorway


I'm waiting for Nerds too. I thought the release was going to be June or something...


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

HubbaMan said:


> Black's cycle in Cumberland have been moving completed builds out the door for a little while now, their instagram feed has a few pics. Mine should be ready in about a week.
> 
> This thread desperately needs pics ...


Here's some mediocre pics, I'll get some better pics once the EXT era and new rear wheel arrive (mid next week).

In other news, at 185lbs geared on an XL frame with push 11/6 and the recommended 400lb spring, best I can measure it looks like I'm getting about 25% sag. The shock feels plenty supple off the top though but maybe a bit firm through the mid stroke, I'll have more thoughts after taking it to some proper terrain (Windrock) this weekend. Wondering if anyone else is getting similar numbers, or what sag people are getting on the 11/6. I'll probably try a 375 spring soon.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

adurant said:


> Here's some mediocre pics, I'll get some better pics once the EXT era and new rear wheel arrive (mid next week).
> 
> In other news, at 185lbs geared on an XL frame with push 11/6 and the recommended 400lb spring, best I can measure it looks like I'm getting about 25% sag. The shock feels plenty supple off the top though but maybe a bit firm through the mid stroke, I'll have more thoughts after taking it to some proper terrain (Windrock) this weekend. Wondering if anyone else is getting similar numbers, or what sag people are getting on the 11/6. I'll probably try a 375 spring soon.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the pics, that colorway looks pretty good. Mine is Stealth but haven't even seen any pics yet, fingers crossed I get a call later this week that it's ready.


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## Grubs (Apr 25, 2019)

TLD80 said:


> I was told May to early June. It sucks to wait that long but that's why I have a dirt bike too. As far as frames go I don't know what they have available. I called the day after the Dreadnought was announced and they had already sold a dozen of them. I'd make a phone call and check. I'm fairly new to the Calgary area and this is my first interaction with The Inside Line Bike Shop but I'll say I am super impressed. Very helpful, knowledgeable and just plain nice people.


Pre-ordered one now too haha, hopefully they come in early and we get an early spring. Coming off an Ibis Ripmo that I never really gelled with, just have to find a buyer now...

Good to hear about The Inside Line. I have had very mixed experiences at bike shops here in Calgary... Still haven't found one that makes me want to purchase at the shop rather than online.but hopefully it's different here.


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## Nails (Sep 25, 2020)

Snowsed341 said:


> I was also thinking based on the Beta guys review that if the bike is already hard to pop and jump then maybe air is the way to go if that is your required taste.
> 
> Do you guys think that the coil will actually make the bike too planted? I enjoy a planted bike as i'm not much of a jumper but I do like to be able to pop the bike around from time to time.


From Beta: I noticed this within my first 50 feet on the bike when, as I do in my first 50 feet on every bike I ride, I tried to pull a manual. But the Dreadnought did not let me. The harder I pulled, the harder an unseen hand held the front wheel to the ground.

That right there is a deal breaker. Or a face plant OTB maker.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Nails said:


> From Beta: I noticed this within my first 50 feet on the bike when, as I do in my first 50 feet on every bike I ride, I tried to pull a manual. But the Dreadnought did not let me. The harder I pulled, the harder an unseen hand held the front wheel to the ground.
> 
> That right there is a deal breaker. Or a face plant OTB maker.


Right because clearly they designed a bike where you can't pull up and that's why everyone who has test ridden it or now owns it is actually in the hospital.
I hope someone who owns one can post a video of them just doing manuals so this nonsense can stop.


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

Grubs said:


> Pre-ordered one now too haha, hopefully they come in early and we get an early spring. Coming off an Ibis Ripmo that I never really gelled with, just have to find a buyer now...
> 
> Good to hear about The Inside Line. I have had very mixed experiences at bike shops here in Calgary... Still haven't found one that makes me want to purchase at the shop rather than online.but hopefully it's different here.


I have a high hopes. The only bummer for me is that The Inside Line is not conveniently located to where I live but I can deal with that.


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

Nails said:


> From Beta: I noticed this within my first 50 feet on the bike when, as I do in my first 50 feet on every bike I ride, I tried to pull a manual. But the Dreadnought did not let me. The harder I pulled, the harder an unseen hand held the front wheel to the ground.
> 
> That right there is a deal breaker. Or a face plant OTB maker.


I've never ridden a high pivot bike before so I'm going into this with the expectation of a learning curve. I still haven't mastered the manual but I'd imagine once someone goes through the process of learning the bikes attributes they'll be able to manual again no problem.

After all, it's just like riding a bike.


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

Yeah, seems the Dreadnought, is very difficult to pull up and ride aggressively as Lewis Buchanan clearly shows... not!


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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

Let’s not pretend we can ride like a pro EWS racer. The majority of us are nowhere near that level of riding. There was a learning curve for me with manuals and wheelies when I switched to my Druid. After putting in some miles and practicing, I feel like I can finally manual as well as I did on my previous bike. It definitely did have an adjustment period though.


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## Nails (Sep 25, 2020)

tp806 said:


> Yeah, seems the Dreadnought, is very difficult to pull up and ride aggressively as Lewis Buchanan clearly shows... not!


Your video shows that bike can plow like a tractor. Where is the wheelie, the rock gardens, the tech step climbs, the wall rides, the slow speed drop off ledges? The whole test was done on a nice dirt flow track.


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

So I have 4 rides on the dreadnought (xl with 11/6) so far, no super gnarly rides yet (gonna fix that this weekend) however already noticing some things I really like:

1. The bike runs sooo quiet, with an onyx hub in the rear the only thing I hear on the descents is the tires and the housing bouncing around a bit in front of the bars (need to figure out some way to tie em down or dampen them). So much less chain rattle etc than my sb150 with stfu chain dampers. There is a tad bit of idler/drivetrain noise on the climbs but its minor. For those on trails with lots of grit or sand I'd definitely recommend waxing your chain or using a dry wax-based drip lube (silica super secret, new ceramic speed ufo, etc. check out zerofriction cycling for more options and testing data) as it will not pick up nearly as much grit or sand and keep the idler quiet.

2. The climbing traction especially with 11/6 is just stupid. A local tech climb that I'm usually 50/50 on in the dry I cleared for the first time in the wet, first try. Due to length of the bike and low bb I wouldn't say its a phenomenal tech climber, but if you can keep on the right line and have the power the traction will get you up the climb.

3. I ride flats and on fast bumpy downhills on any bike it can be a bit sketchy to pedal hard while descending. I don't know which deserves more credit the coil or the suspension design, but I've never felt so confident sprinting on bumpy downhills. Outside of sprinting on downhills I don't bounce off the pedals on any bike but on the Dread the suspension is so supple that my feet just feel so much more planted. 

4. Finally the best part and the part I'm most excited about; the stability and balanced handling... I'll have more thoughts after the weekend but so far... wow... The short bits of fast chunk I've done the bike just feels so planted and stable. Like it feels more stable than my XL sb150 was yet changing direction feels easier. I know that doesn't make sense but bear with me. Previously on my Sb150 to not feel like a passenger on a freight train and to maintain front wheel traction I had to lean soooo far forward to the point that even with decent flexibility it was hard to keep the heels dropped and to get my weight low for flat turns etc. Also in that stretched out position I had less control and tired quickly. With the Dread just by maintaining a neutral centered position I have balanced traction and it feels like I'm in the center of the bike and fully in control instead of behind it and along for the ride. So despite the bike being longer and more stable direction changes and flat turns especially actually feel much easier. NOTE: if you ride medium sized bikes then bikes like the sb150 are probably going to feel fine and balanced, its the imbalance on the bigger sizes that grow the front of the bike while keeping the same rear length.

Now all this stability does have one downside, if you're riding style mainly consists of playing/jibbing/manualing etc then its not the bike for you, although really get a 27.5 bike if that's the case. The bike is definitely harder to manual but on the trail especially at speed I have no issues getting the front wheel up and bunny hopping etc.


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

adurant, that is a great initial write up! Thanks! Your experience so far is what I was really hoping for with the Dreadnought. I'd love to have you continue sharing your thoughts especially as you ride even more challenging terrain! Stoked for you!


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## Grubs (Apr 25, 2019)

Yes keep us posted on ride impressions! Great to hear your experience so far.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

adurant said:


> So I have 4 rides on the dreadnought (xl with 11/6) so far, no super gnarly rides yet (gonna fix that this weekend) however already noticing some things I really like:
> 
> 1. The bike runs sooo quiet, with an onyx hub in the rear the only thing I hear on the descents is the tires and the housing bouncing around a bit in front of the bars (need to figure out some way to tie em down or dampen them). So much less chain rattle etc than my sb150 with stfu chain dampers. There is a tad bit of idler/drivetrain noise on the climbs but its minor. For those on trails with lots of grit or sand I'd definitely recommend waxing your chain or using a dry wax-based drip lube (silica super secret, new ceramic speed ufo, etc. check out zerofriction cycling for more options and testing data) as it will not pick up nearly as much grit or sand and keep the idler quiet.
> 
> ...


im coming from a large sb150. moving to a large dready with mullet setup. i love my steep gnarly stuff. based on this review - i cant wait.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nails said:


> From Beta: I noticed this within my first 50 feet on the bike when, as I do in my first 50 feet on every bike I ride, I tried to pull a manual. But the Dreadnought did not let me. The harder I pulled, the harder an unseen hand held the front wheel to the ground.
> 
> That right there is a deal breaker. Or a face plant OTB maker.


Making a bike manual is not about pulling, it's about pushing, ie pushing down on the lead pedal, and of course some weight shift.

Me thinks the beta tester needs a tutorial ...


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

adurant said:


> So I have 4 rides on the dreadnought (xl with 11/6) so far, no super gnarly rides yet (gonna fix that this weekend) however already noticing some things I really like:
> 
> 1. The bike runs sooo quiet, with an onyx hub in the rear the only thing I hear on the descents is the tires and the housing bouncing around a bit in front of the bars (need to figure out some way to tie em down or dampen them). So much less chain rattle etc than my sb150 with stfu chain dampers. There is a tad bit of idler/drivetrain noise on the climbs but its minor. For those on trails with lots of grit or sand I'd definitely recommend waxing your chain or using a dry wax-based drip lube (silica super secret, new ceramic speed ufo, etc. check out zerofriction cycling for more options and testing data) as it will not pick up nearly as much grit or sand and keep the idler quiet.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the write up, very interesting comparison and thoughts on the bike, itching to get mine and this helps build the Stoke!!


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

adurant said:


> So I have 4 rides on the dreadnought (xl with 11/6) so far, no super gnarly rides yet (gonna fix that this weekend) however already noticing some things I really like:
> 
> 1. The bike runs sooo quiet, with an onyx hub in the rear the only thing I hear on the descents is the tires and the housing bouncing around a bit in front of the bars (need to figure out some way to tie em down or dampen them). So much less chain rattle etc than my sb150 with stfu chain dampers. There is a tad bit of idler/drivetrain noise on the climbs but its minor. For those on trails with lots of grit or sand I'd definitely recommend waxing your chain or using a dry wax-based drip lube (silica super secret, new ceramic speed ufo, etc. check out zerofriction cycling for more options and testing data) as it will not pick up nearly as much grit or sand and keep the idler quiet.
> 
> ...


Good initial review, please keep it coming.
I am going from a large Nomad v4 to a medium Dreadnought (to be run as mullet initially) and I cannot wait for May delivery to come! 
Hope there aren't any teething issues with the frame and QC is on par with other boutique manufacturers?

PS. Spoiled after owning high quality Santa Cruz frames for 8 years

Sent from my Xperia XZ Premium using Tapatalk


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

Any more reviews or pics?


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

jay_paradox said:


> Any more reviews or pics?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Pics and review / thoughts coming soon. My build is done, picking up next Sat since shop isn't local.

Expecting it to take a while to get used to the way this bike handles, past experience is on FSR (Turner) and DW (Ibis) so I wanted to try something completely different. I'm also moving from a (by today's standards) conservative trail bike (HD3) to the Dreadnought which in and of itself will be a big switch.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

what seat post length will fit the bike?


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Picard said:


> what seat post length will fit the bike?


I have a 200mm Fox Transfer on my new build, was told (don't have the bike yet) that it can't be slammed, sits about 3cm above seat collar at its lowest position. Given my leg length I'll have a bit more showing than that.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

HubbaMan said:


> I have a 200mm Fox Transfer on my new build, was told (don't have the bike yet) that it can't be slammed, sits about 3cm above seat collar at its lowest position. Given my leg length I'll have a bit more showing than that.


Why does the bike require long seat post?

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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Picard said:


> Why does the bike require long seat post?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Given the design of the bike and my leg length, I can use a 200mm post and it just gets the seat further out of the way when all the way down.

Had I gone with a shorter post it would just have left the seat higher when all the way down. Hope that makes sense!


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

What are everyone's thoughts on the Dreadnought being the 1 bike in a quiver? It'll be my only bike until next year when I get a shorter travel bike. Until then, I plan on happily riding it everywhere. This won't be my first time riding a 35 lbs bike as my daily driver so I'm not worried, just curious.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

TLD80 said:


> What are everyone's thoughts on the Dreadnought being the 1 bike in a quiver? It'll be my only bike until next year when I get a shorter travel bike. Until then, I plan on happily riding it everywhere. This won't be my first time riding a 35 lbs bike as my daily driver so I'm not worried, just curious.


same old story. if you're riding gnarlier stuff - it will be amazing. i will be using it for my one bike quicker for awhile. if i get another bike in the future - it will prolly be a ebike


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

That's what I figured. The trails where I ride very from mild to wild. Add in the fact that there are some really good bike parks that are within driving distance and that makes it a good fit for this area. Impatiently waiting!


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

NSMB.com - The Forbidden Dreadnought Fears Nothing – Interview w/ Owen Pemberton


A global pandemic can't keep the new Forbidden Dreadnought chained down. Owen Pemberton shares some of the challenges during the bike's development.




nsmb.com


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

What length chain are you early Dreadnought owners running? Recommended length looks like 132 links for med frame. Forbidden builds are spec'd with Shimano XT or SLX, so I assume they are using 32t chainring and 10-51 cassette. Would I need to go with a longer chain if I'm running SRAM X01 32t with 10-52 cassette?


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Interesting that the first batch was only 100 frames. Can't wait till someone drops some news on that second shipment arriving.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Yeah, that's not a lot of bikes. Still, I recall Banshee's global production being around 3000 frames per year, and they have 9 different models [all alloy] in their lineup. I wouldn't be surprised if most small brands were in the same boat.


djbutcher13 said:


> Interesting that the first batch was only 100 frames. Can't wait till someone drops some news on that second shipment arriving.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

djbutcher13 said:


> Interesting that the first batch was only 100 frames. Can't wait till someone drops some news on that second shipment arriving.


looking at the fanatik website yesterday - their eta on frames is late April early may


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## Grubs (Apr 25, 2019)

onawave said:


> looking at the fanatik website yesterday - their eta on frames is late April early may


 My local bike shop that I have ordered through has an ETA of mid May to early June, but that is for complete bikes.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I am 5'6" tall. should I use 125mm post?


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

One ride in so far on mine but need to replace the dropper. Bike is parked until I (or the shop) can source a 170-175 dropper. Shop put a 200 Transfer on there but it's a touch too long and can't insert any lower.
Coming from a L 2015 HD3 this thing is big (L), and weighs 34lbs pretty much on the nose. I have the Storia, 38 and Tannus inserts, running MaxTerra tires 2.4 & 2.5 for reference. I'm 5'11" and weight 152-155lbs out of the shower. Inserts let me run 15/17lbs psi so far without issues from the WaO convert wheels.

Feeling like the 38 needs a few rides to break in a bit before I drop on the shockwiz and see what it's saying. 
Storia feels pretty good so far but will wait until the fork is dialed to focus any further on it. The little floating disc isn't much help in determining what it's been up to so I think it'll be entirely by feel unless someone has some other suggestions.

Had no issues on drops or jumps after my one Shore ride, the bike definitely comes alive with speed and wanted to be leaned way over in the berms which was a hoot, it helps the berms were near vertical in spots.
Rear axle loosened off (which I've read about on the Druids), but the rest was solid.

I doesn't feel like a poppy bike so far but I had zero issues jumping it and it felt very neutral in the air, again though I'm going to have to get used to the size of it and the added weight (HD3 was around 29.5lbs). The rebound off the back could also be adjusted to help here.

I'm not used to hearing the chain guide so that will take some time, it's not super loud or anything, I'm sure no one else noticed it, but it's there. There's definitely a bit more drag with the whole idler setup but I'm fine with it so far and don't feel it when pedalling.

Had a few butt buzz moments already which got me thinking of the Ziggy link but I'll see how things go, maybe I'll just send it more vs rolling a few things.

Can't wait to get more mileage on it that's for sure. If you're familiar with the Shore and the Sea to Sky corridor riding out here then that's exactly why I went this way, wanted a bike that felt super solid at speed and in the steep messy stuff, so far it's exactly on point.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

do you guys think 125mm post is suitable for short guy like me?


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Picard said:


> do you guys think 125mm post is suitable for short guy like me?


Probably. What's your inseam?


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## greyshrike (Mar 8, 2020)

Hi, 5'7" 29.5" inseam here

I think going off Forbidden's stock spec (S-125 M-160 L/XL-185) for dropper length would be a good idea if you're considering the Bikeyoke Revive.

I have a medium frame and the 185 Revive was too long even fully inserted.

I went with the 160, but I believe the 125 would work as well if I was okay with more of the post sticking out. 

The 125 Revive is 60g lighter than the 160, but I don't think it would look as cool personally.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

greyshrike said:


> Hi, 5'7" 29.5" inseam here
> 
> I think going off Forbidden's stock spec (S-125 M-160 L/XL-185) for dropper length would be a good idea if you're considering the Bikeyoke Revive.
> 
> ...


Interesting, I'm replacing my Fox Transfer with a 185 Bikeyoke but I have a large frame. Transfer was 530mm long end to end for 200mm drop vs 485mm length for 185mm on the Bikeyoke so I'll have no issues with the new post.
Thanks for listing the post sizes per frame size from Forbidden.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

pinkrobe said:


> Probably. What's your inseam?


29 inch inseam

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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Picard said:


> 29 inch inseam
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


It might be possible to roll a 150 post. Forbidden has the seatpost insertion specs online [https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...ught_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf?v=1612197136], and if you know the distance from BB to seat rails you can do the math to figure out what post size will work.


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## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

Managed to find an XL Dreadnought Frame in stock here in the UK, but I am unsure on L or XL! I am always in-between at just under 6 ft 2.

Coming off a Specialized Enduro 2020 Size S4 with 487mm reach, sounds like the L is slightly shorter and XL a fair bit longer, and the XL wheelbase sounds pretty long. Definitely feel like I could handle a slightly longer bike than the Enduro though.

What do you guys think? L or XL at my height?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

XL

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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Skatefarmer said:


> Managed to find an XL Dreadnought Frame in stock here in the UK, but I am unsure on L or XL! I am always in-between at just under 6 ft 2.
> 
> Coming off a Specialized Enduro 2020 Size S4 with 487mm reach, sounds like the L is slightly shorter and XL a fair bit longer, and the XL wheelbase sounds pretty long. Definitely feel like I could handle a slightly longer bike than the Enduro though.
> 
> What do you guys think? L or XL at my height?


What sort of terrain do you mainly ride? I'm 6'1" and wouldn't consider the XL. Did you find the Enduro small/big/just right? Or is it just because an XL is available that you are considering it?


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## AlpineVulpine (Feb 6, 2021)

Skatefarmer said:


> What do you guys think? L or XL at my height?


XL unless you like it a little cramped. But jump on it now, there aren't many frames out there.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

springs said:


> What sort of terrain do you mainly ride? I'm 6'1" and wouldn't consider the XL. Did you find the Enduro small/big/just right? Or is it just because an XL is available that you are considering it?


my brother has an s4 enduro and i ride XLs/was considering the XL dreadnought. I would say if you're comfy on the s4 enduro, go large. the XL dreadnought is huge, even compared to the s5 enduro


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Create a spreadsheet for a known bike you fit on and compare the fit numbers to the L & XL Dreadnaught right next to it on the sheet. Keep in mind that stem length and bar height can be used to adjust effective Reach, TT & Stack but that ideally you'd like to keep stem length between 40-50mms and be in your seated and standing comfort range. 
GL

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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

geometrygeeks is very good for that ^


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## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

springs said:


> What sort of terrain do you mainly ride? I'm 6'1" and wouldn't consider the XL. Did you find the Enduro small/big/just right? Or is it just because an XL is available that you are considering it?





AlpineVulpine said:


> XL unless you like it a little cramped. But jump on it now, there aren't many frames out there.





MyDadSucks said:


> my brother has an s4 enduro and i ride XLs/was considering the XL dreadnought. I would say if you're comfy on the s4 enduro, go large. the XL dreadnought is huge, even compared to the s5 enduro


So the S4 enduro feels a little small, I just sold it for a V3 Wreckoning Large which also feels a little tight (which will be sold for the Forbidden) My Santa Cruz Bullit Ebike in XL (495mm reach) feels bloody PERFECT!

So by the numbers my perfect Dreadnought is right in-between the L and XL. I am closer to 6 Ft 2 btw, and I have long legs. So I am thinking I should probably go L since the wheelbase extends, I have also found a size L available now too.

The UK shops keep telling me how good the druid is, I am seriously considering an XL Druid instead! Mullet, 160 fork and angleset. I am not sure!

Riding in Scotland mostly, steep, fast, techy riding in the Tweed Valley (best place in the world haha!)


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Wheelbase doesn't matter. Focus on the triangle of fit.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Skatefarmer said:


> So the S4 enduro feels a little small, I just sold it for a V3 Wreckoning Large which also feels a little tight (which will be sold for the Forbidden) My Santa Cruz Bullit Ebike in XL (495mm reach) feels bloody PERFECT!
> 
> So by the numbers my perfect Dreadnought is right in-between the L and XL. I am closer to 6 Ft 2 btw, and I have long legs. So I am thinking I should probably go L since the wheelbase extends, I have also found a size L available now too.
> 
> ...


Sounds like we are on a similar path. I was considering a large Dreadnought but now I'm leaning towards an XL Druid with coil and 160 fork. I'm coming off a large Titan, just wanted something with slightly longer reach.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Skatefarmer said:


> Managed to find an XL Dreadnought Frame in stock here in the UK, but I am unsure on L or XL! I am always in-between at just under 6 ft 2.
> 
> Coming off a Specialized Enduro 2020 Size S4 with 487mm reach, sounds like the L is slightly shorter and XL a fair bit longer, and the XL wheelbase sounds pretty long. Definitely feel like I could handle a slightly longer bike than the Enduro though.
> 
> What do you guys think? L or XL at my height?


Definitely XL, you downsized on the Enduro.


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## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

For anyone thats interested, posted a seperate thread regarding Dreadnaught vs other options









Forbidden Dreadnaught vs Specialized Enduro vs...


Hi Guys, I am in analysis paralysis with these 3 bikes. Whichever one I pick its going to be a Mullet (29/27.5) 6 ft 2 Current bike: Evil Wreckoning V3 Large (for sale) XL Dreadnaught, S5 Enduro or S5 Stumpy Evo. I prefer to ride aggressive. Hoping to do a few Enduro races and EWS100 this...




www.mtbr.com


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## babesquatch (Sep 1, 2016)

Any chance someone who has received a frame can confirm whether it comes with a headset?


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

Has anyone heard if the situation in the Suez Canal has interrupted delivery dates for complete bike orders? I emailed Forbidden but haven't heard back yet.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

babesquatch said:


> Any chance someone who has received a frame can confirm whether it comes with a headst?


I ordered a frame and had a shop build the bike, I needed to spec a head set for it as part of the build.


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

TLD80 said:


> Has anyone heard if the situation in the Suez Canal has interrupted delivery dates for complete bike orders? I emailed Forbidden but haven't heard back yet.


Answer to my own question. This is what I heard back from Forbidden:

"We haven't heard any word yet, but it's likely it will cause a bit of a delay."

It's a bummer but obviously this was completely out of their control. I'll continue to wait with excitement and live vicariously through you lucky ones who have/get their bikes. Would love to hear your real world reviews from those that have their bikes.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

TLD80 said:


> Answer to my own question. This is what I heard back from Forbidden:
> 
> "We haven't heard any word yet, but it's likely it will cause a bit of a delay."
> 
> It's a bummer but obviously this was completely out of their control. I'll continue to wait with excitement and live vicariously through you lucky ones who have/get their bikes. Would love to hear your real world reviews from those that have their bikes.


Well my Bikeyoke seat post is arriving today so will start to get more rides on the bike in the coming days. Will report back once I get a handful or so under my belt.


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## Grubs (Apr 25, 2019)

TLD80 said:


> Answer to my own question. This is what I heard back from Forbidden:
> 
> "We haven't heard any word yet, but it's likely it will cause a bit of a delay."
> 
> It's a bummer but obviously this was completely out of their control. I'll continue to wait with excitement and live vicariously through you lucky ones who have/get their bikes. Would love to hear your real world reviews from those that have their bikes.


Hmm I wonder if it's just an impact for bikes going Europe? Or is it somehow affecting shipments from Asia to North America as well


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Grubs said:


> Hmm I wonder if it's just an impact for bikes going Europe? Or is it somehow affecting shipments from Asia to North America as well


Most [all?] ships on the NorAm/Asia route come direct across the Pacific to LA, Seattle and Vancouver. Asia-Europe routes utilize the Suez Canal much more. A knock-on effect will be a temporary reduction in goods shipped from countries that rely on ships/containers that normally pass through the Canal. There could be a shortage of toilet paper in Europe because Brazil can't get wood pulp across the Atlantic, because ships bringing goods from Europe to South America were delayed by the Canal block.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I guess Europeans have to use newspaper to wipe their asses for 2 weeks. 

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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

this could be really interesting on the forbidden









Ochain Chainring Spider


Reviews, ratings, specifications, weight, price and more for the Ochain Chainring Spider




www.vitalmtb.com


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

onawave said:


> this could be really interesting on the forbidden
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Links not working for me

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Why would someone add a device that is intended to reduce pedal kickback, to a HP bike that has no pedal kickback?


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> Why would someone add a device that is intended to reduce pedal kickback, to a HP bike that has no pedal kickback?


i thought it had some pedal kickback. havent ridden one yet so cant say myself


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## seankdebree (Mar 31, 2015)

The whole point of the idler pulley is to eliminate pedal kickback on high pivot suspension designs. I think a product added to the chainring to eliminate kickback would have little value on the dreadnought, but then again, I've never ridden one.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Where are the ride reviews from owners?


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Salespunk said:


> Where are the ride reviews from owners?


People own this bike already? Kidding. Hopefully the 10 people who have one are to busy enjoying it to review it. Patiently waiting for that Fanatik email....


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

djbutcher13 said:


> People own this bike already? Kidding. Hopefully the 10 people who have one are to busy enjoying it to review it. Patiently waiting for that Fanatik email....


I have my fingers crossed for you!


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

Salespunk said:


> Where are the ride reviews from owners?


Well the first batch was only 100 frames, and some people may still be building theirs up. I posted some thoughts earlier and have some more coming, have quiet a bit of ride time but only have one ride on the new lighter coil. (dropped the push 11-6 from a 400 spring to a 375) 
Some quick thoughts:
I absolutely love the geo on the XL, despite the longer wheelbase it actually feels easier to get around tight steep corners (windrock so proper steep) than my xl sb150 did, and on top of that flat corners are so much easier and confidence inspiring.

The suspension (especially once i got the lighter coil on) has phenomenal suppleness but also I've never ridden a bike that was so supple yet so supportive in the mid stroke, also haven't felt bottom yet.

The speed it carries through rock gardens and the lack of getting hung up is very noticeable.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

adurant said:


> I absolutely love the geo on the XL, despite the longer wheelbase it actually feels easier to get around tight steep corners (windrock so proper steep) than my xl sb150 did, and on top of that flat corners are so much easier and confidence inspiring.
> 
> The suspension (especially once i got the lighter coil on) has phenomenal suppleness but also I've never ridden a bike that was so supple yet so supportive in the mid stroke, also haven't felt bottom yet.
> 
> The speed it carries through rock gardens and the lack of getting hung up is very noticeable.


that's interesting as my titan has fairly similar geo to the sb150 aside from long chain stays, and almost all of the trails i ride are chonky natural rut tracks with steep tight corners. the relatively extreme wheelbase of the dreadnought and inability to actually get one kept me from it but i'm definitely keen to snag one towards the end of 2021 to compare.


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

At barely 5’6” would you guys recommend the Small size? I run a small now on a V1 pivot switchblade...


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

mine is due at the end of the month. i could of had that blue black one, but changed my mind for the stealth.


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## Asininedrivel (Apr 15, 2021)

onawave said:


> mine is due at the end of the month. i could of had that blue black one, but changed my mind for the stealth.


Did the same, was actually thinking of holding out for the Nerds colourway, but with the parts going on it it was in danger of looking like rainbow vomit, so I chickened out and went for a stealth XL.

The blue / black colourway looks stunning in person.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Asininedrivel said:


> Did the same, was actually thinking of holding out for the Nerds colourway, but with the parts going on it it was in danger of looking like rainbow vomit, so I chickened out and went for a stealth XL.
> 
> The blue / black colourway looks stunning in person.


yeah dude. cant wait.


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## Grubs (Apr 25, 2019)

Anyone heard if full bike builds are still on schedule for mid to late May? Getting itchy to ride with the snow finally gone haha


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## gubbinalia (May 11, 2020)

NSMB.com - Mike Grimwood's Forbidden Dreadnought


A fully custom high-pivot North Shore trail tamer.




nsmb.com





I think this is the sexiest, most well-thought-out Dreadnought build I've seen so far. I will say, though, that in concept it's a little closer to what many folks (myself included) are aiming for with a Druid, in terms of weight and pedal-ability. Maybe we'll see more folks (like @CHWK ) going toward that sort of lighter Dreadnought build instead of keeping both bikes and building a heavier, more DH-oriented Dreadnought to complement the Druid's chops as an all-rounder.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

All,

I have a bit of a first world problem.

Im located downunder - and have had the dreadnought on order for a long time. Obs with covid etc - there have been many delays.

The conundrum is:

There is yet another delay on the stealth black. This is estimate to come around now end of may. Who knows if it may change again.
I can get the deep space one basically now - with all of my parts.

Is it worth waiting with the risk again of yet another delay? or wait the 6 weeks and get the stealth black.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

onawave said:


> All,
> 
> I have a bit of a first world problem.
> 
> ...


Don't wait. Seriously, global supply chain for bike stuff is just going to get worse as summer hits the Northern Hemisphere and more people get vaccinated. Forbidden is mighty, yet tiny. The big companies are looking at 9-month ETAs for carbon frames if you order now, and they have the clout to bump smaller companies out of the way.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

pinkrobe said:


> Don't wait. Seriously, global supply chain for bike stuff is just going to get worse as summer hits the Northern Hemisphere and more people get vaccinated. Forbidden is mighty, yet tiny. The big companies are looking at 9-month ETAs for carbon frames if you order now, and they have the clout to bump smaller companies out of the way.


sorry to be clear - the black or stealth - _will_ get here. my name is on one. its just a matter of when. its ordered and the deposit is down.


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## Asininedrivel (Apr 15, 2021)

onawave said:


> sorry to be clear - the black or stealth - _will_ get here. my name is on one. its just a matter of when. its ordered and the deposit is down.


I think it depends what bits you've got going on it.

I've seen both of the current colours in person and the Deep Space 9 looks waaay better than it does in photos. Got a really nice finish and the contrast is excellent. But - the parts I've got going on it (Pistachio 38, copper Eagle drivetrain etc.) convinced me it'd look pretty out there so I went stealth. But if you're chucking all black components on it then the Deep Space would look excellent.

TL/DR: I probably would have got the blue / black or waited for the nerds if I had subtler looking parts.


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

onawave said:


> All,
> 
> I have a bit of a first world problem.
> 
> ...


If it's to arrive at the end of May, that means it's on a boat and on route to you. I'd confirm that and then make your mind up. If you really want black/stealth, get black. I personally really like the Deep Space 9. But both are sweet.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Asininedrivel said:


> I think it depends what bits you've got going on it.
> 
> I've seen both of the current colours in person and the Deep Space 9 looks waaay better than it does in photos. Got a really nice finish and the contrast is excellent. But - the parts I've got going on it (Pistachio 38, copper Eagle drivetrain etc.) convinced me it'd look pretty out there so I went stealth. But if you're chucking all black components on it then the Deep Space would look excellent.
> 
> TL/DR: I probably would have got the blue / black or waited for the nerds if I had subtler looking parts.


i have a fox 38 kashima on hold, and same dropper post.

everything else is pretty matchy. would put on there glossy black chris king hubs. so it wont be all black.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

pinkrobe said:


> Don't wait. Seriously, global supply chain for bike stuff is just going to get worse as summer hits the Northern Hemisphere and more people get vaccinated. Forbidden is mighty, yet tiny. The big companies are looking at 9-month ETAs for carbon frames if you order now, and they have the clout to bump smaller companies out of the way.


to be clear - I can get either. i can get the space one next week OR wait until may. with the way boats are at the moment - who knows if it will get here in time?


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

Get it know!!! No time like the present. 
Also waiting for my deep space 9 Dreadnought frame (aka judge Dredd) to arrive in UK end of May hopefully.

I just hope come winter 21/22 the cycle industry catches up with the backlog of orders for bikes and parts and they are not creating artificial scarcity...


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

onawave said:


> to be clear - I can get either. i can get the space one next week OR wait until may. with the way boats are at the moment - who knows if it will get here in time?


Yea personally no matter the color I'd get the bike I can get now. Also as an owner of a DS9 it looks way better in person than in photos. Really happy with the way it turned out. Haven't seen the black in person, but idk I've seen too many black or murdered out bikes in my lifetime. (currently own a very black sb100).


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

onawave said:


> sorry to be clear - the black or stealth - _will_ get here. my name is on one. its just a matter of when. its ordered and the deposit is down.


LOL, totally misunderstood that. Don't mind me, carry on...


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

onawave said:


> All,
> 
> I have a bit of a first world problem.
> 
> ...


Get the Deep Space, nothing wrong with a little color in your life


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Where is everyone ordering from? I'm in Socal and don't see any way to locate a dealer, is it just direct and Fanatik?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Salespunk said:


> Where is everyone ordering from? I'm in Socal and don't see any way to locate a dealer, is it just direct and Fanatik?


Look forward to your comparo... the Dreadnaught is sick.

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## cheezwhip (Aug 6, 2004)

In the US, Fanatik is it.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I don't have anything productive to add other than I just placed an order for some Nerds from Fanatik. Time to clean up the SB150 and put the frame up for sale. 

I'm a hopeful, but concerned about the BB height on the Dreadnought as it's considerably lower than my current setup and I have a few low angle rocky sections to pedal through. I've tweaked the Yeti to sit higher (and get more travel) so I'm hoping that the DN doesn't sink too much into the stroke while pedaling.


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## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

adurant said:


> Well the first batch was only 100 frames, and some people may still be building theirs up. I posted some thoughts earlier and have some more coming, have quiet a bit of ride time but only have one ride on the new lighter coil. (dropped the push 11-6 from a 400 spring to a 375)
> Some quick thoughts:
> I absolutely love the geo on the XL, despite the longer wheelbase it actually feels easier to get around tight steep corners (windrock so proper steep) than my xl sb150 did, and on top of that flat corners are so much easier and confidence inspiring.
> 
> ...


What height are you with your XL?

I ended up ordering XL Nerds, at 6 ft 2. Ordered the ziggylink and a mullet wheel set right of the bat! Maybe should've stuck with 29ers who knows..


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

Skatefarmer said:


> What height are you with your XL?
> 
> I ended up ordering XL Nerds, at 6 ft 2. Ordered the ziggylink and a mullet wheel set right of the bat! Maybe should've stuck with 29ers who knows..


I'm 6 ft 1 but I have a 6ft 6 wingspan and long legs (35 inseam iirc). I've ridden some large bikes in the 485 reach range but prefer a bit longer, especially since I run a short stem and a lot of stack (which shortens the reach a bit). As for 29er or mullet, its all personal preference.


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## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

adurant said:


> I'm 6 ft 1 but I have a 6ft 6 wingspan and long legs (35 inseam iirc). I've ridden some large bikes in the 485 reach range but prefer a bit longer, especially since I run a short stem and a lot of stack (which shortens the reach a bit). As for 29er or mullet, its all personal preference.


How is the climbing? I'm a little paranoid about it being my "one-bike" for trail centres as well as full on send mode!


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

Skatefarmer said:


> How is the climbing? I'm a little paranoid about it being my "one-bike" for trail centres as well as full on send mode!


It climbs tech or trails really well, not the most efficient on fire roads but definitely pretty efficient. I'd say its more efficient than a specialized enduro but not as good as an sb150, so for the category of bike it climbs very well (i've never thought about using the climb switch even with the coil shock). Honestly though when it comes to being an only bike I'd be less worried about the climbing and more about making sure you have plenty challenging trails. On flatter and flowier trails its so stable that those trails become boring, like your going just as fast but it feels like your going slow. Granted thats going to be an issue with any big bike and is not unique to the dread. For most people I'd say the druid would be a better only bike.

As for the idler it makes a bit of sound but the drag is super minimal. If you ride in an area that is sandy and tends to make your drivetrain gritty, I'd definitely look into some of the wax based lubes, like silica super secret drip and the new ceramic speed ufo v2. I use the silica and its completely dry so the sand doesn't stick and make the idler all gritty.


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## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

adurant said:


> It climbs tech or trails really well, not the most efficient on fire roads but definitely pretty efficient. I'd say its more efficient than a specialized enduro but not as good as an sb150, so for the category of bike it climbs very well (i've never thought about using the climb switch even with the coil shock). Honestly though when it comes to being an only bike I'd be less worried about the climbing and more about making sure you have plenty challenging trails. On flatter and flowier trails its so stable that those trails become boring, like your going just as fast but it feels like your going slow. Granted thats going to be an issue with any big bike and is not unique to the dread. For most people I'd say the druid would be a better only bike.
> 
> As for the idler it makes a bit of sound but the drag is super minimal. If you ride in an area that is sandy and tends to make your drivetrain gritty, I'd definitely look into some of the wax based lubes, like silica super secret drip and the new ceramic speed ufo v2. I use the silica and its completely dry so the sand doesn't stick and make the idler all gritty.


Brilliant, my previous bike was the Enduro so that's great news. I have been very tempted to cancel and go for the new Stumpjumper Evo..but right now the NERDS is still ordered.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Has anyone tried a Ziggy Link with a 29" wheel?

It looks like it would raise the BB by about 6mm but without having actually seen one of these bikes yet, I don't know if it would create any kind of interference issues somewhere else other than a slightly steeper HTA


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

smudge said:


> Has anyone tried a Ziggy Link with a 29" wheel?
> 
> It looks like it would raise the BB by about 6mm but without having actually seen one of these bikes yet, I don't know if it would create any kind of interference issues somewhere else other than a slightly steeper HTA


sorry - you want to run a mullet link but put a 29 wheel on it???


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Salespunk said:


> Get the Deep Space, nothing wrong with a little color in your life


I'm really leaning towards getting a carbon copy of this:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CNK7WwoB1Yr/


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

onawave said:


> I'm really leaning towards getting a carbon copy of this:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CNK7WwoB1Yr/


Do it!


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

I've had about ten rides on mine so far. A bit of background, 5'11" 155lbs out of the shower, been riding for about 30yrs. Spent years on URT, fsr, DW and now this. I don't swap bikes often, I take a fair bit of time to figure them out and get a good number of years on them before I move on. I live on the Shore, near the base of Fromme, so my riding is single track / fsr up and DH tracks of varied intensity depending on how I'm feeling that day. Sea to Sky corridor is the main playground.

My goal with the Dreadnought was a one bike quiver, sub 34lbs that pedalled well given it's desing/intent and felt very solid i nthe steeps. Currently it sits at 33.7lbs size L, 38, Storia, WaO converts and i9 101 hubs, EXO DHR/DHF and Tannus inserts, 29 f/r, bikeyoke 185mm, Sram XX1 and X01, RF next 170mm since I couldn't source X01 cranks.

Quick observations: 
I did notice the drag and noise of the idler/guide right off the top, but once you're moving on the bike it kind of fades away to a steady BG noise. The extra drag doesn't get on my nerves but it's there. With such a slack HA it's definitely a bit floppy at slower speeds, but it brings loads of confidence at speed. Oh and speaking of speed, it picks it up like crazy, I've found myself just letting it go and late braking more and more.

I spend more time taking care of the chain than I would normally, I think because it rides on top of the chain stay it just tends to collect just a bit more dirt. I typically favour a dry lube and apply more often since so many of the rides here are in the wet. I've had the rear axle loosen off twice now, another thing I read about in the Druid owner's forum so will keep an eye on it.

It's taking me a bit of time to get used to climbing on such a long / slack bike (coming from L Ibis HD3), I find I can easily fall into old habits and put too much weigh on the front and unweigh the back end which then forces me to sit up again to regain traction, nothing bad, just an observation on my own riding techniques that will take time to adjust to newer geo. I feel it's a total tractor on the way up though and haven't run into anything I can't clear as long as I have the energy to keep the pedals moving. Running fairly low pressures (14/17) likely helps as well, thanks Tannus!
Although the sta is 76deg, I think I would have prefered 78+ since I spend so much of my time in the saddle grinding my way up the mountains. I was concerned about lifting the front end as I had read about folks finding it difficult to do so with the design, but I've had no problems on the tech climbs when I need to reposition the front to clear something, or pulling quick wheelies on the DH side. I'm far from a wheelie/manual king so take that for what it is.

I'm getting a mini bolt on rrp fender that I'll trim to create a longer rear fender, there's a rock grab zone behind the seat tube that is just waiting for a rock to fall in there and damage the frame. Some folks put a block of moto foam in there as another option. Druid owners have remarked on this so I was surprised to see Forbidden hasn't done anything about it on the new frame. Jank components have even made a bolt in foam block that can be purchased.

I'm still working on the suspension. Although the spring guide on Forbidden's site recommended a 375lbs spring, my feeling is I should drop down to 350/325. I'll keep tinkering and see where I get but with no o-ring on the shaft it's not always obvious what's happening back there, it feels overly stiff even when the H&L compressions are wide open. There's an EXT dealer up in Squamish that I might chat with about the tune and spring weight. There was an article on NSMB about a local Dreadnought build, that guy is 190lbs and on a 300lbs spring but he told me he's getting the shock re-tuned and will likely go up in spring weight.
The factory 38 is slowly coming alive as well, it comes stock with two tokens and I'll pull one out soon to see where that takes me. Might throw a friend's Shockwiz on there to see what it has to say, never done that before so kind of curious about it.

Overall I'm super pleased with the bike, it feels really solid and ready for anything.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

onawave said:


> sorry - you want to run a mullet link but put a 29 wheel on it???


That's right. Low BB's don't really work for me and I'm taking a chance with this frame purchase. I've been able to tweak my Yeti's by machining offset bushings and tweaking the suspension travel which made all the difference on the trails I like to ride. The Dreadnought sits a bit lower than I'd prefer and I'm fairly confident that I can tweak it to my liking but was curious if anyone had already done it is all.


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

HubbaMan said:


> I'm still working on the suspension. Although the spring guide on Forbidden's site recommended a 375lbs spring, my feeling is I should drop down to 350/325. I'll keep tinkering and see where I get but with no o-ring on the shaft it's not always obvious what's happening back there, it feels overly stiff even when the H&L compressions are wide open. There's an EXT dealer up in Squamish that I might chat with about the tune and spring weight. There was an article on NSMB about a local Dreadnought build, that guy is 190lbs and on a 300lbs spring but he told me he's getting the shock re-tuned and will likely go up in spring weight.


Everyone who I've spoken to seems to find the suggested spring weights too stiff. At 185 pounds the 400 pound spring was recommended, it was way stiff (feet were even sore until i opened compression fully on on 11/6) dropped to a 375 and its much better, but still on stiff side, going to play with compression some but pretty sure I'm going to drop to a 350. For reference in neutral standing position I got 25% sag with the 400 and have 29% sag on the 375. (measured using zip tie around shaft that I remove before riding).

Spoke to a guy on FB riding ohlins and he was finding the same thing. Then also spoke to someone at Push with a Dread and they went down a coil weight as well (25lb increments for push). So yea at 155 if I were you I'd try 325, or at least 350, but considering the low tire pressures you're able to get away with I'd think 325 would be a better fit.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

adurant said:


> Everyone who I've spoken to seems to find the suggested spring weights too stiff. At 185 pounds the 400 pound spring was recommended, it was way stiff (feet were even sore until i opened compression fully on on 11/6) dropped to a 375 and its much better, but still on stiff side, going to play with compression some but pretty sure I'm going to drop to a 350. For reference in neutral standing position I got 25% sag with the 400 and have 29% sag on the 375. (measured using zip tie around shaft that I remove before riding).
> 
> Spoke to a guy on FB riding ohlins and he was finding the same thing. Then also spoke to someone at Push with a Dread and they went down a coil weight as well (25lb increments for push). So yea at 155 if I were you I'd try 325, or at least 350, but considering the low tire pressures you're able to get away with I'd think 325 would be a better fit.


Thanks for the added perspective, super helpful!


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## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

So I have a FB Dreadnought XL Nerds on order, due May. 

I am 6 ft 2 and this will be my only bike, 

A Stumpjumper Evo LTD Mullet S5 has appeared in stock, and I am super tempted to cancel the Dready and go with the Stumpy, it has a similar reach but 40mm shorter wheelbase, I am a little concerned the Dready will feel massive and a little cumbersome as a 'one-bike' - And this Evo is really tempting me.

Dreadnought owners - Do you think I am crazy to consider cancelling and going Stumpy Evo ? Change my mind haha!


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Skatefarmer said:


> So I have a FB Dreadnought XL Nerds on order, due May.
> 
> I am 6 ft 2 and this will be my only bike,
> 
> ...


Will let you know about the dreadnought this weekend. I pick might up on Friday.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

smudge said:


> Has anyone tried a Ziggy Link with a 29" wheel?
> 
> It looks like it would raise the BB by about 6mm but without having actually seen one of these bikes yet, I don't know if it would create any kind of interference issues somewhere else other than a slightly steeper HTA


Just following up. Forbidden say "no, it won't work and doing so will void the warranty" but with no technical explanation as to why. So I definitely won't be doing that.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

I'm sure most of you on here already got it but finally got the email from Fanatik saying the second shipment is delayed. I figured this email would be coming and had already mentally prepared myself for July. Guess the Honzo is getting a little more love this year than it thought.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

here is my build.


__
http://instagr.am/p/COPO-uoBbFG/

matchy matchy decals on on their way.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Holy smokes man. The bike is super hot 

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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

onawave, that's a dream build for sure! Congrats!


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

thanks dudes.



TLD80 said:


> onawave, that's a dream build for sure! Congrats!


h


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

onawave said:


> thanks dudes.
> 
> h


Tell us how it rides man !


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

hugosxm said:


> Tell us how it rides man !


For realz 

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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

onawave said:


> here is my build.
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Mullet bikes just look sexy!!

Sent from my Asus Rog 3


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

*The Quick and Dirty Review*
Geeze what a beast.

The first thing I noticed on this bike from a riding perspective (not comparing different types of components) was cornering. It actually wants you to be off the break entering a corner. I took it to our most decent enduroish trails on the weekend - where there are some decent berms and in some cases bumps going into the corner. Coming from the Yeti SB150 - I would break into the corner - and try to ride out at speed. On the dreadnought - it literally ate up all the bumps - and I didn't need to break at all. The speed was insane.

You could put this down to a number of things.

The high pivot
Mullet
Push rear shock
Carbon wheelset.
Most probably its a combination of all the above.

The 2nd thing is an equal to basically no pedal bob (such a weird feeling coming from the Yeti) and rear wheel travel. The forbidden dudes need a frikken gold medal for this ****. The feeling is sublime and night and day different to my 150.

More to come when I get more time.

PS - I'm taking the bike to our best and steepest trails this week. More to report on then.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

Went for my first ride on the new dreadnought. Fox 38 with push 11.6.
Came from a 2018 Rocky Mountain Slayer. The slayer was 31 lbs, 27.5 size xl.

This bike size large, 34 lbs.

A couple smaller laps just to try and ball park suspension set up.

As previously stated this bike climbs very well. Not sure if it is just because it fits better or what but the big wheels and the way the rear axle goes up and over roots with no Bob is impressive.

It wants to go fast in a straight line. Softened up the compression in the shock a bit, sped up the rebound.
Very grippy in corners. It really encourages you to let off the brakes.
Not so big that it loses playfulness but definitely not as "jibby" as my slayer was.
Going to be a fun fast bike.









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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

How does it handle in drops and chunky rocks? 

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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Picard said:


> How does it handle in drops and chunky rocks?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


took it in some very gnarly rocky stuff over the weekend. basically dh double black trails.

ate it all up no worries. i was so surprised on how smooth it was. esp vs the 150.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

onawave said:


> took it in some very gnarly rocky stuff over the weekend. basically dh double black trails.
> 
> ate it all up no worries. i was so surprised on how smooth it was. esp vs the 150.


Hi, how does it handle braking ? I mean braking in chunky stuff ?


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

hugosxm said:


> Hi, how does it handle braking ? I mean braking in chunky stuff ?


is still taking some re-learning. this bike wants you to be fast. the feeling vs the yeti is night and day.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

onawave said:


> is still taking some re-learning. this bike wants you to be fast. the feeling vs the yeti is night and day.


I'd like to know how it pedals against an SB150 Yeti. I wish you had the ability to do one of those efficiency tests like pinkbike does comparing the two.

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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'd like to know how it pedals against an SB150 Yeti. I wish you had the ability to do one of those efficiency tests like pinkbike does comparing the two.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


literally, no pedal bob / kickback is a game changer. _it does not_ feel like you losing efficiency at all.

i did a fair bit of pedalling last weekend - and I was talking to my mates riding up - that its way better.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

hugosxm said:


> Hi, how does it handle braking ? I mean braking in chunky stuff ?


also keep in mind I upped my breaking power by a fair bit. I'm now running trp dhr evo's on the big boi 223 rotors vs the hope enduro brakes.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

I'm shocked at how it pedals. Part of it is fit but the way this tire gets up and over things is amazing on step technical climbs. Better than my 15 altitude and better than my 18 slayer. Obviously not as good as my honzo.
It wants to go fast. Straight line speed corner support is great. Chunder, no problem.
You do notice the rear tire size anf extra length even trying to be playful. The push rear shock is great. Still toying with the 38.
Braking over bumps is fine.

I definitely need to work on cornering and line choice though haha

Support in jumps is great. 

38. 105 psi 170mm 2 tokens, hsr hsc pretty much wideopen (i think 1 or 2 clicks closed. Lsr is close to open too. Lsc is a bit dampened.

Push with 400lb spring, rebound faster, sped up hsc slightly stiffened lsc.

180lbs large frame 6'1 and a bit.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

crashidy said:


> I'm shocked at how it pedals. Part of it is fit but the way this tire gets up and over things is amazing on step technical climbs. Better than my 15 altitude and better than my 18 slayer. Obviously not as good as my honzo.
> It wants to go fast. Straight line speed corner support is great. Chunder, no problem.
> You do notice the rear tire size anf extra length even trying to be playful. The push rear shock is great. Still toying with the 38.
> Braking over bumps is fine.
> ...


%100 agree with this.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

In the spirit of sharing for all those waiting on their frames, I heard that Fanatyk got some frames in the other day that they need to inventory and will be shipping soon. I had a Nerds on order and apparently they never made it into a container because they're painted in a different factory. I lack the imagination to discern why that would be the case, but it is what it is. Anyhow, I suspect there will be some happy folks receiving frames over the next week or two.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

smudge said:


> In the spirit of sharing for all those waiting on their frames, I heard that Fanatyk got some frames in the other day that they need to inventory and will be shipping soon. I had a Nerds on order and apparently they never made it into a container because they're painted in a different factory. I lack the imagination to discern why that would be the case, but it is what it is. Anyhow, I suspect there will be some happy folks receiving frames over the next week or two.


It was really hard not taking them up on that offer. But i remember how I felt the first time a saw that color and Im not letting my inability to wait get in the way of that.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

djbutcher13 said:


> It was really hard not taking them up on that offer. But i remember how I felt the first time a saw that color and Im not letting my inability to wait get in the way of that.


It was really hard. I held out for a couple of hours, but without any certainty about the timeline, I caved and rationalized to myself that I shouldn't let vanity get in the way of a good time. I spent most of last night convincing myself that I made a good decision choosing a color that I truly do not like. Worst case scenario is that I put my spray guns to use on something other than guitars over the winter when I'm not as interested in riding in the cold and wet.

Of course today, I finally got some correspondence with Forbidden who says they're expecting the next shipment in the beginning of July. They're citing the problems that I listed on the FB group...a lack of containers in Asia and delays all along the shipping chain.


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## Asininedrivel (Apr 15, 2021)

smudge said:


> It was really hard. I held out for a couple of hours, but without any certainty about the timeline, I caved and rationalized to myself that I shouldn't let vanity get in the way of a good time. I spent most of last night convincing myself that I made a good decision choosing a color that I truly do not like.


What colour did you get? Both the current available colours look amazing in the flesh. Particularly the blue / black one - photos don't do it justice at all, almost makes me wish I'd gone for it over the stealth one I've got coming.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Asininedrivel said:


> What colour did you get? Both the current available colours look amazing in the flesh. Particularly the blue / black one - photos don't do it justice at all, almost makes me wish I'd gone for it over the stealth one I've got coming.


yeah mate. can confirm its way better in the flesh.

they are in stock now btw at summit.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Asininedrivel said:


> What colour did you get? Both the current available colours look amazing in the flesh. Particularly the blue / black one - photos don't do it justice at all, almost makes me wish I'd gone for it over the stealth one I've got coming.


I got the DS9. It'll be fine. It was going to be a bit of a mongrel anyhow as I'm moving all my parts over from my SB150, save for the headset, which I'll machine tomorrow or Friday out of a hunk of 6/4 since the King I ordered is still some months out. I'm not expecting my DHX2 until September, which is a bit of a bummer, but it is what it is. As I wrote above, it's not a big deal, it's just paint. If I hate it and want to put in the work (I really don't), I can change it. Other than the new frame, the other big deal is that I finally got new tires from Maxxis a few weeks ago and was determined to wait until the Dreadnought arrived before replacing them. The side knobs are mostly ripped off my rear tire, so I'm expecting the first ride with new rubber to be pretty amazing if I can get the X2 dialed in after a few laps.

Just got the tracking number. I suppose it's possible that I'll receive it on Friday since Fanatyk is only a few hours north from me.


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## Asininedrivel (Apr 15, 2021)

Yeah cool - like others have said don't sweat the colour. The DS9 looks really good. 

Still waiting on cranks, dropper and rims before I can start getting mine underway.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I managed to find a chain locally and thankfully Chris King had my headset ready to go but isn't going to have the bottom bracket until August. I regret that I sold a bike with a Buzzworks bottom bracket they gave me for doing some testing for them, but I have a ThreadFit 30 that came off of one of my personal bikes before I sold the frame so I turned some new adapters to step it down to the 24mm Shimano spindle that's coming off my current bike

TF30 to 24mm conversion by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

FedEx didn't pick up the frame yesterday so I think Tuesday is most realistic for building it up. Hopefully all of the current cabling will be long enough and everything will transfer over without too much hassle.

Do the Dreadnoughts have guide tubes for the internal cabling or is it a free for all in the tubes?


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## B Rabbit (May 30, 2014)

onawave said:


> here is my build.
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Heya! 
We met at Maydena earlier this year (Ben on the enduro and Hannah on the Commencal).
The build looks rad, hope it's treating you well! Might have to put a dreadnaught on the shortlist for when the enduro is due for switch up


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

B Rabbit said:


> Heya!
> We met at Maydena earlier this year (Ben on the enduro and Hannah on the Commencal).
> The build looks rad, hope it's treating you well! Might have to put a dreadnaught on the shortlist for when the enduro is due for switch up


**** yeah dude!

It's a small world. Hopefully can get back there soon!


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Got mine out today for the first time today. Just 15mi and 2600ft of climbing. My regular ride starts with a 4mi climb that gains about 1500ft. There are a few places to peel off and one of them a little trail that starts about half way up where you can do a .75mi downhill with a 1mi climb back to the start. The first things I noticed was that there isn't much discernible drivetrain drag when you're soft pedaling, but if you have to power up a steep section the drag makes itself known in an exponential way. I was routinely in a gear that's two gears lower than what I'd normally use to ride these sections. There's a short ~1mi climb with 7-8 switchbacks that is the highest spot on my regular loop and I didn't have any bailout gears. 

I did a couple of quick laps on a lower trail to tweak the shock (the Fox X2) a little bit and am running the compression fully open. Despite that, the back end still doesn't move fast enough which showed up later on a fast and rocky bench cut trail. I've always thought my fork was dialed, but this X2 on the Dreadnought would pack up so much that I was riding much more front heavy than usual on the fast downhill. I'm going to look into tweaking the shim stack to open it up even more. The way it is, the range isn't useable for me. I have a DHX2 on order and I'll either have to request a different tune (I'm guessing the stock range won't cut it if the X2 is this bad) or just cancel it and see about getting the Push.

It's heavy. I haven't weighed the complete bike yet, but the frame and X2 are 8.9lb. 

I have to re-learn how to manual on this bike. There are a bunch of rollers that I usually manual through and with my usual movements, I just couldn't do it. No big deal here, I'm sure it'll take time.

Despite the shock moving too slowly, the back end feels amazingly planted. Going through a few bombed out corners, the back end didn't step out like my SB150 does when I have an X2 installed on it. The Dreadnought feels MUCH stiffer in the back end compared to the Yeti. For the most part, I've had a DHX2 on the SB150 and it worked well for me most of the time but I felt like the compliance of the coil shock really hid how noodly the back end is. I love the feeling of the bike being stuck to the ground and think that the coil is going to be amazing on the Dreadnought.

Hopefully I'll be able to get out again on Wednesday so I can continue working to get use to the way this rides.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

^this might be a dumb question but did you mess with the rebound at all? i have the same float x2 (on a different frame but same sizing, medium compression tune), and i had to run the rebound fairly fast to keep it from packing down, but after tweaking it feels sick now.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

MyDadSucks said:


> ^this might be a dumb question but did you mess with the rebound at all? i have the same float x2 (on a different frame but same sizing, medium compression tune), and i had to run the rebound fairly fast to keep it from packing down, but after tweaking it feels sick now.


totally fair question and just after writing my post I realized that these new Fox shocks have the rebound buried next to the eye and it cannot be reached (by me) if the bike is assembled. On the upside, I just discovered that they're using bearings on that pivot rather than the standard bushings, but even with the wheel off and fender removed I can't reach the HSR. I steel feel like I need a few more clicks to lighten up the compression damping and now that I know that the HSR is buried, I'm going to cancel my order with Fox and see what I can do about a Push


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

opening up the HSR made all the difference. I have it completely backed off the the shock is moving much faster now. I do wish I wasn't at the end range, but I ordered a Push yesterday so I'll only have this X2 for 5-6 weeks. 

I also realized that I was only working with a few hour sleep before my ride over the weekend and it had a much bigger physiological effect on my performance than I thought. I did pretty much the same ride today and used the same gearing in the same spots that I always do.

It's a lot of fun learning how to ride this bike. I can't overstate how much stiffer the back end feels compared to the SB150...it feels so much more stable in corners but I still feel like the X2 is the limiting factor. I can definitely carry more speed into corners now and hit a PR today while feeling like I'm giving it 85-90%. I even worked out how to manual it through some rollers, which wasn't working for me over the weekend. 

Since I won't be able to ride until next wednesday, I'll have the time to quiet down the cables in the TT which are clacking around in there. I need to finish machining a new crown race, press in some new stanchions and overhaul the fork, make something to keep the motofoam in place behind the seat tube and a few other little things.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

smudge said:


> opening up the HSR made all the difference. I have it completely backed off the the shock is moving much faster now. I do wish I wasn't at the end range, but I ordered a Push yesterday so I'll only have this X2 for 5-6 weeks.
> 
> I also realized that I was only working with a few hour sleep before my ride over the weekend and it had a much bigger physiological effect on my performance than I thought. I did pretty much the same ride today and used the same gearing in the same spots that I always do.
> 
> ...


I went from a dhx2 on the yeti - to a push on my dreadnought. the feeling is absolutely night and day between the two. taking that into account - i wouldnt geek out into too much then on your current shock. as the push is going to blow you away.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

onawave said:


> I went from a dhx2 on the yeti - to a push on my dreadnought. the feeling is absolutely night and day between the two. taking that into account - i wouldnt geek out into too much then on your current shock. as the push is going to blow you away.


There's not much I can do with the X2 at this point anyway. Most of the valves are full open and after looking at the VVC setup procedures, I'm definitely not going to buy the tools needed to align the shim stack. I hope the push blows me away. I've found the DHX2 to be an extremely competent shock and have no complaints about it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

smudge said:


> *I also realized that I was only working with a few hour sleep before my ride over the weekend and it had a much bigger physiological effect on my performance than I thought. I did pretty much the same ride today and used the same gearing in the same spots that I always do.*


Thanks for the clarification.

Pedaling is important to me and your statement about having to pedal 2 gears lower was concerning, and I don't even have a HP bike!


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> Pedaling is important to me and your statement about having to pedal 2 gears lower was concerning, and I don't even have a HP bike!


 it was bumming me out too. I keep an eye on my HR and Power on certain sections sort of as a validation tool and to track fitness through the riding season. It wasn't looking good that day and I think my excitement to be on a new bike overshadowed how tired I actually was.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

smudge said:


> There's not much I can do with the X2 at this point anyway. Most of the valves are full open and after looking at the VVC setup procedures, I'm definitely not going to buy the tools needed to align the shim stack. I hope the push blows me away. I've found the DHX2 to be an extremely competent shock and have no complaints about it.


agreed on the dhx2 being a very competent shock. however once I started getting used to the way the dreadbought rides, and then could concentrate on the feeling of the push (lots of changes going from the yeti to the dready). i realised how amazing the shock actually is.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Im hoping its a good sign seeing the first people getting their nerds frames. It looks so good. 
Any light riders on coil yet. Im probably around 155-160 kitted up. It suggested 350 but now I'm wondering if I should go 325. I feel like those guides always over spring.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

I'm 180 on a push with 400 feels great. Certainly wouldn't go less. I think the 400 is their recommendation for 180 to 195

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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

djbutcher13 said:


> Im hoping its a good sign seeing the first people getting their nerds frames. It looks so good.
> Any light riders on coil yet. Im probably around 155-160 kitted up. It suggested 350 but now I'm wondering if I should go 325. I feel like those guides always over spring.


I'm 185 and on the push I dropped from a 400 to a 375 much prefer it and still no bottom outs. I've heard of 3 other people going down a weight from the recommendation. At 185 with the 375 I'm sitting at 29% sag. It feels great and want to try to open compression more, but also tempted to try a 350 spring. Finally get to do more dialing this weekend, been off the bike for 6 weeks due to a broken ankle. 🤬🤬


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## TheOne (May 24, 2006)

Hello!

Anybody here has built a frame up with a 51mm offset fork?

If so, any feedbacks on the ride? 

Thanks


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Long-Term Test: Is the Forbidden Dreadnought Inefficient?


We held on to the Forbidden Dreadnought for nearly two months. Was that long enough to know if we could hold on to it forever?




www.betamtb.com





Beta just released this long term test...


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

hothb said:


> Long-Term Test: Is the Forbidden Dreadnought Inefficient?
> 
> 
> We held on to the Forbidden Dreadnought for nearly two months. Was that long enough to know if we could hold on to it forever?
> ...


Members only.... What's the long and short of it?

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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

He set up a Ransom with same wheels / tires and similar weight to Dreadnought and compared using a power meter on multiple repeat climbs. Here is what he concluded:

So, with almost 15,000 feet of comparable climbs on the Dreadnought and the Ransom, how much harder was it to climb on the Dreadnought? On average, 01.13 percent. That’s it. Below is an example of a 1,750-vertical-foot climb, and how it compares on the Dreadnought and my Ransom. It only took 12 more kilojoules to get the Dreadnought up to that peak than my Ransom. That’d have gotten me a whole extra 24-foot head start on that hour-long climb. Once I put this together, I went on a last loop on the Dreadnought before I sent it back to Forbidden. Having proved to myself that my assumptions about significant drivetrain drag were 98.87 percent bullshit, I had a relatively quick-feeling 7,000-foot ride without hitting a wall.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

crashidy said:


> Members only.... What's the long and short of it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


The Forbidden Dreadnought was only the third bike we tested here at _Beta_. We launched on a Tuesday, it launched on a Wednesday, and my test bike had only just arrived the Friday before. We had a whirlwind three days together before I went on camera for our First Ride video, trying to look fast and sound smart.
Those three days were just enough to learn what the Dreadnought is good and bad at, but not enough to imagine how it would feel to actually own one. To know what life would be like if it were my only bike. The methods I normally use to figure that out would short circuit when I tried to apply them to the Dreadnought. The way Forbidden chose to balance this bike's strengths and weaknesses defy all convention. On rough, loose, wide-open terrain, it is the fastest bike I've ever ridden. But it's a lot of bike to move around, and a lot of bike to get up a mountain. It sent me into one of those unwinnable thought experiments where you imagine how much you'd give up for something you really want. Would you own the most capable trail bike ever made, even if it meant you could never do a manual again? Would you own a bike that had the stability of a downhill sled, but it would never be under 34 pounds? Would you own a bike that will literally make you a better descender, even if it meant you could only ride it for five hours before it wore you out?








That last question is the one I struggled with the most during the several weeks was putting off sending the Dreadnought home to Forbidden. I would never own a bike that I couldn't ride from sunrise to sunset. I love big days, but it seemed like this bike did not. About 1,000 vertical feet before my average Saturday epic would end, I would go into survival mode. And it wasn't because of the Dreadnought's long travel, or even its high pivot. I've ridden bikes with less travel that were still mushier under pedaling force than the Dreadnought. Its linkage is not inefficient. But I'd never ridden a bike with an idler pulley. I figured that _must_ be where the energy was disappearing. 








So, I devised an experiment that would find out. Using a crank-based power meter, I was able to learn how much work it took (measured in kilojoules) to get to the top of my favorite climbs. I ran at least two laps on each route over the period of a week. I then swapped the power meter onto my Scott Ransom. I also installed the same wheels and tires, kept them at the same pressure, and I put a small weight on the frame to match the weight of the Dreadnought. I also made sure _my_ weight was the same before I left the house, and I loaded up the same quantity of water at the bottom of each climb. 
I focused on moderately smooth fire roads. Although technical singletrack might have revealed a whole new set of data, it presented too many variables. I might lurch gracefully up a root on one day and clumsily bash a pedal into it the next. Unsure how slim the margins would be, I tried to be as accurate as I could. 








I checked with a couple experts in the power-meter field, and they believed the logic of this test was sound. If I could successfully control my variables, a crank-based power meter would pick up on drag in the drivetrain if I did it over a long enough distance. And measuring kilojoules, it wouldn't matter if I was hammering or spinning. The net quantity of work it took to get to the top of the hill would be the same. My first two rides seemed to confirm this. On the same climb on the same bike, I was getting a variation of less than a half a percent, and that stayed consistent throughout this process.. 
So, with almost 15,000 feet of comparable climbs on the Dreadnought and the Ransom, how much harder was it to climb on the Dreadnought? On average, 01.13 percent. That's it. Below is an example of a 1,750-vertical-foot climb, and how it compares on the Dreadnought and my Ransom. It only took 12 more kilojoules to get the Dreadnought up to that peak than my Ransom. That'd have gotten me a whole extra 24-foot head start on that hour-long climb. Once I put this together, I went on a last loop on the Dreadnought before I sent it back to Forbidden. Having proved to myself that my assumptions about significant drivetrain drag were 98.87 percent bullshit, I had a relatively quick-feeling 7,000-foot ride without hitting a wall. 















Before you go using this as evidence that human bike testers are flawed, I offer this defense: The Dreadnought was not meant for the rides I was doing on it. With pedals, two bottles and a spare tube, hanging off it, it's just under 38 pounds. And with appropriate tires, it is not a quick bike. I had to make my Ransom into something pretty different to get it to compare to the Dreadnought. It just turns out that the Dreadnought's overall nature, not its idler pulley, seems to be the culprit. So, armed with these hard-won facts, I asked myself again: Could the Forbidden Dreadnought be my only bike?
No, it couldn't. I think I may have known that all along, but I felt like the choice was clouded by this nagging question about its efficiency. It is capable of doing the climbs I like to do, leaving me free to decide based on how it does the _descents_ I like to do. And after nearly three years of riding a lightweight but long-legged 29er that some may call overkill as a daily driver, I've learned that the Dreadnought truly _is_ overkill. 
But it is only overkill for me. That's something this bike highlights better than any other bike I've tested in recent memory. It is not meant to be all things to all riders. More brands should design bikes this way. To serve the needs _they_ want served. The Dreadnought, along with other over-the-top high-pivot bikes, pushes the limits of what is practical. And there is a chance that, if you have the skill and the trails that demand it, it actually _is_ practical for you. And now you finally know how many more kilojoules it will take to get to the top of those trails.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

That's some good reviewing. Is this sort of stuff published in the Beta magazine? Is there much to read in it as I might subscribe.

I once asked the Kavenz guys about the loss of efficiency from an idler pulley and they said: 'a chain is 99% efficient, an idler reduces that to 98%. HP bikes are ideal for Enduro racing but not for trail riding as a result of this efficiency loss."

I guess adding to this equation is now the bike flies downhill so needs more tire & there seems to always be additional weight as a result of the idler pulley itself and the associated frame material.


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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

Sounds about right, the Dreadnought is definitely overkill for most of the people riding them. Whether they want to admit it or not. I'd buy one if I was at the park every weekend, but for now I'll stick with the Druid.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

QuickSilverZ said:


> Sounds about right, the Dreadnought is definitely overkill for most of the people riding them. Whether they want to admit it or not. I'd buy one if I was at the park every weekend, but for now I'll stick with the Druid.


yeah id agree. but the times when I ride mine and its super gnalry. its so worth it.


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## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

1.13 % is not insignificant. Not to say its a game changer, but as someone at the upper end of fitness (for my age) I'd be thrilled to improve my personal performance by that much. 
This is just a comment on those figures, not a dig or comment on the Dreadnought.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

QuickSilverZ said:


> Sounds about right, the Dreadnought is definitely overkill for most of the people riding them. Whether they want to admit it or not. I'd buy one if I was at the park every weekend, but for now I'll stick with the Druid.


However, you are still losing the 1% with the Druid. And you likely have some of the weight increase as well.

The issue I have with the Druid (in addition to extra maintenance) is that it probably has all of that drag of the Dreadnaught, but it's still a 130 (very capable 130!) bike.

So my position is that once I give up that efficiency, might as well have the big bike anyways.


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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

I realize the Druid has the same idler setup.... Just like the BETA reviewer mentioned, it's not about the extra drag from the idler, it's the geometry and weight of the Dreadnought that I find overkill for most riders and trails. The Druid is a much better all day, all mountain bike.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> That's some good reviewing. Is this sort of stuff published in the Beta magazine? Is there much to read in it as I might subscribe.
> 
> I once asked the Kavenz guys about the loss of efficiency from an idler pulley and they said: 'a chain is 99% efficient, an idler reduces that to 98%. HP bikes are ideal for Enduro racing but not for trail riding as a result of this efficiency loss."
> 
> I guess adding to this equation is now the bike flies downhill so needs more tire & there seems to always be additional weight as a result of the idler pulley itself and the associated frame material.


I really like Beta. Worth subscribing IMO.


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

Preston67 said:


> 1.13 % is not insignificant. Not to say its a game changer, but as someone at the upper end of fitness (for my age) I'd be thrilled to improve my personal performance by that much.
> This is just a comment on those figures, not a dig or comment on the Dreadnought.


Something to keep in mind is that according to multiple reports - and some feedback from Forbidden- is that because of the length of the chainstays you can get away with removing the lower roller on the L and XL sizes of the Druid. I can't see any reason that you couldn't do this on a Dreadnought as well. Given the longer chainstays, you _might _even be able to get away with it on a medium Dreadnought...

It would seem like that could go a decent ways towards closing whatever efficiency gap there is between the Forbidden high pivot design and other suspension layouts.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

For what ever this 1 percent is on the up. Forgetabout it.... It more than makes it up with fun factor on the way down!

I'm cleaning things going up that I want doing as easily on my 18 slayer. Fit, design, and fitness. Point and go

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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Thats the thing...if you're just trying to get up there, you dont care about how long it takes (to go up)...1% is what it is...I was climbing my v3 Nomad with a 65 degree seat tube angle up the same stuff...now that was hell!


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

adurant said:


> I'm 185 and on the push I dropped from a 400 to a 375 much prefer it and still no bottom outs. I've heard of 3 other people going down a weight from the recommendation. At 185 with the 375 I'm sitting at 29% sag. It feels great and want to try to open compression more, but also tempted to try a 350 spring. Finally get to do more dialing this weekend, been off the bike for 6 weeks due to a broken ankle. ??


Sorry to hear about the broken ankle! Hope it's healing up well.

Based on your comments in the thread about spring weight, I'm wondering if you might be a good candidate for a Sprindex? Their lightest weight 65mm spring is adjustable between 340 lbs/in and 380 lbs/in. It seems like that would be the perfect range for you and give you lots of room to get it dialed in exactly how you want it.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

QuickSilverZ said:


> I realize the Druid has the same idler setup.... Just like the BETA reviewer mentioned, it's not about the extra drag from the idler, it's the geometry and weight of the Dreadnought that I find overkill for most riders and trails. The Druid is a much better all day, all mountain bike.


Depends on how you build it. Most people on here have the Druid with a 160mm fork and coil shock plus angleset headset and now with cascade links - essentially built with Enduro grade parts. So all of sudden the 2 bikes get even closer. Now if you built the Druid with a 140mm fork like a 34 or Pike and light weight parts then yes it's the better trail bike but I certainly haven't heard or seen anyone doing that. It seems everyone wants more DH capability from the Druid so that's why the Dreadnought exists.


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

Sylvan.Being said:


> Sorry to hear about the broken ankle! Hope it's healing up well.
> 
> Based on your comments in the thread about spring weight, I'm wondering if you might be a good candidate for a Sprindex? Their lightest weight 65mm spring is adjustable between 340 lbs/in and 380 lbs/in. It seems like that would be the perfect range for you and give you lots of room to get it dialed in exactly how you want it.


Oh thanks it wasn't displaced just a hairline, I'm good to go. 

Huh, for some reason I had in mind the sprindex wasn't compatible with the 11/6, thats an interesting option. However they claim they get progressive end stoke, which considering how progressive the dread is, the bumper on the 11/6 and the HBO of the 11/6 not sure I want more progression. Also this review Sprindex adjustable coil spring review
Seems to question the effectiveness of the adjustment, and mentions some bowing/deforming of the spring leading to paint rub. On the dread the space between the spring and shock tunnel is tiny. I haven't had any issues with the push spring rubbing but I think the barrel shape does keep it from bowing as much.

I'm still tempted for some easy experimenting but at 140bucks compared to 90 for a 350lb spring from push... May have saved me money if I'd gotten it from the start but now that I already have a 375 and 400, may as well just get the 350. The fine tuning is nice but 25lbs are already pretty small increments, not sure I'd benefit much from more adjustment.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Some interesting reading on the Dreadnought. I use it as my main ride now since March, and have several '3000+ foot rides in without issue, still waiting for snow to clear on the Alpine stuff to get much higher.
I think the comparison to the Spesh Enduro is a good one, it was the other bike I was considering when I went with Forbidden to try something different.
Terrain is key for the Dread, I've had zero issues on tech climbs, or long ass FSRs where I'm grinding for hours.
Living in the Sea to Sky corridor and riding the Shore as my local trails, it's a great bike. I'm in my 50s and wanted something not stupid heavy (my build is under 34lbs, size L with Storia, 38 and Tannus inserts), was slack for the steep stuff and held up well with speed. In short a confidence inspiring bike that upped the safety factor on my trails.

I can see how this style of bike wouldn't be for everyone, it's not as playful and feels like a bigger plow bike even though I still manage to get through tight tech just fine and jib around on some rides. If I had more open rolling terrain there's no way I would have bought it though.

Re spring weight, I'm on the Storia and started out with a 375lbs spring, I'm 160-165 ready to ride. The 375 felt way too stiff so I've since dropped to a 300 based on the local distributor's thoughts and some comments on the forum. It's miles better but now I'm playing with LSC and HSC to find the sweet spot. If anything I may try a 325 but that would be it.

It's a very fast bike, just begs the rider to let off the brakes and fly. Like some of the Druid owners, I find myself late braking way more on this bike. So far zero regrets, it delivers everything I thought it would and more.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

HubbaMan said:


> Some interesting reading on the Dreadnought. I use it as my main ride now since March, and have several '3000+ foot rides in without issue, still waiting for snow to clear on the Alpine stuff to get much higher.
> I think the comparison to the Spesh Enduro is a good one, it was the other bike I was considering when I went with Forbidden to try something different.
> Terrain is key for the Dread, I've had zero issues on tech climbs, or long ass FSRs where I'm grinding for hours.
> Living in the Sea to Sky corridor and riding the Shore as my local trails, it's a great bike. I'm in my 50s and wanted something not stupid heavy (my build is under 34lbs, size L with Storia, 38 and Tannus inserts), was slack for the steep stuff and held up well with speed. In short a confidence inspiring bike that upped the safety factor on my trails.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback! I'm interested in your build as mine is ~35lbs with pedals - Large frame, Lyrik, Float X2, Carbon Roval wheels/DT350 hubs, Code RSC 200mm rotors and Sram GX drivetrain - no inserts and EXO Maxxis tires. Curious how light you have it with a heavier fork and shock - might just be the difference in our scales.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Kootenay rider said:


> Depends on how you build it. Most people on here have the Druid with a 160mm fork and coil shock plus angleset headset and now with cascade links - essentially built with Enduro grade parts. So all of sudden the 2 bikes get even closer. Now if you built the Druid with a 140mm fork like a 34 or Pike and light weight parts then yes it's the better trail bike but I certainly haven't heard or seen anyone doing that. It seems everyone wants more DH capability from the Druid so that's why the Dreadnought exists.


No disrespect to anyone here but if you're building the Druid with a 160, cascade link, angleset and coil you bought the wrong bike...


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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

hothb said:


> No disrespect to anyone here but if you're building the Druid with a 160, cascade link, angleset and coil you bought the wrong bike...


Exactly, I can't understand why so many people try to turn a bike into something that it wasn't designed to be. There are so many good bikes out there that you should be able to find one to match your terrain and riding style pretty easily.


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

adurant said:


> Oh thanks it wasn't displaced just a hairline, I'm good to go.
> 
> Huh, for some reason I had in mind the sprindex wasn't compatible with the 11/6, thats an interesting option. However they claim they get progressive end stoke, which considering how progressive the dread is, the bumper on the 11/6 and the HBO of the 11/6 not sure I want more progression. Also this review Sprindex adjustable coil spring review
> Seems to question the effectiveness of the adjustment, and mentions some bowing/deforming of the spring leading to paint rub. On the dread the space between the spring and shock tunnel is tiny. I haven't had any issues with the push spring rubbing but I think the barrel shape does keep it from bowing as much.
> ...


That's a fair point and an interesting review of the Sprindex to boot. I guess that nothing is perfect...
Like you said, you're already a good ways down the path with buying different springs already. As a side note. how difficult is it to access the rebound adjuster on the 11/6 with it being tucked away at the back of the shock tunnel? it looks like it would be an absolute nightmare with the new X2s, but maybe it isn't so bad with the 11/6s and Storias?


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

Got my Dreadnought back from my bike builder today. Pretty happy with build and weight (just under 32 lbs with flat pedals).


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)




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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

@yangpei you killed it with that build....amazing

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Yeah, that's sick and the weight is really impressive too. 

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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

Sylvan.Being said:


> That's a fair point and an interesting review of the Sprindex to boot. I guess that nothing is perfect...
> Like you said, you're already a good ways down the path with buying different springs already. As a side note. how difficult is it to access the rebound adjuster on the 11/6 with it being tucked away at the back of the shock tunnel? it looks like it would be an absolute nightmare with the new X2s, but maybe it isn't so bad with the 11/6s and Storias?


Well you did get me started thinking about that sprindex, ended up finding the 340-380 one for 70 bucks so figured why not give it a try lol. So in a few weeks I may have some thoughts, most reviews are positive and even the review I linked found that the adjustment range only falls off around 75% of the travel/stroke so there is still a lot of adjustment benefit. Also from what I can understand in the bike radar review they found that deep in the travel the spring softens back up from the stiff setting as the spring slips by the plastic ring a bit. I'd think this behavior would make the coil more linear or borderline regressive which may not be such a bad thing considering how hard it is to find bottom currently.

Yeah.... the rebound is a *****. I can barely fit one finger back there and have to mash it against the knob to try to get enough grip for it to turn, makes it harder to feel clicks as well. I mean its doable on the 11/6 but its a pain.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

FWIW...HSR on the X2 is doable but I usually just pull the shock off to do it


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Kootenay rider said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I'm interested in your build as mine is ~35lbs with pedals - Large frame, Lyrik, Float X2, Carbon Roval wheels/DT350 hubs, Code RSC 200mm rotors and Sram GX drivetrain - no inserts and EXO Maxxis tires. Curious how light you have it with a heavier fork and shock - might just be the difference in our scales.


Here are the build details:
L frame - stealth
Storia v3 - 375lbs spring
We Are One convert wheels, i9 101 hubs, 6 bolt hubs
Tannus tubeless f/r
Maxxis 2.5 DHF maxterra EXO
Maxxis 2.4 DHR II maxterra EXO
Sram XX1 Eagle 52t cassette
Sram XX1 chain
Sram X01 derailleur
Sram X01 shifter
Fox Float factory 38 44mm
Shimano XT 4pot brakes 203 & 160 rotors
Cane Creek 70 headset
Fox Transfer 200mm
Race Face Next R 170mm cranks
Oneup composite pedals
Cromag BZA bar 800mm 25mm rise
Race Face Turbine R 35mm stem
Deiti grips

The above weighed 33.7lbs ... since then I've done the following:
Swapped for Bike Yoke 185mm dropper - Fox Transfer was a touch too long in the body for the insertion depth I needed
Added bottle cage, RPP bolt on fenders front & back (1 x normal, 1 x mini)
Swapped for 300lbs spring
Currently experimenting with new verse saddle from Bontrager which is 100g heavier than my original saddle
Weight today is 34.5lbs

I hope this helps!


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

adurant said:


> Well you did get me started thinking about that sprindex, ended up finding the 340-380 one for 70 bucks so figured why not give it a try lol. So in a few weeks I may have some thoughts, most reviews are positive and even the review I linked found that the adjustment range only falls off around 75% of the travel/stroke so there is still a lot of adjustment benefit. Also from what I can understand in the bike radar review they found that deep in the travel the spring softens back up from the stiff setting as the spring slips by the plastic ring a bit. I'd think this behavior would make the coil more linear or borderline regressive which may not be such a bad thing considering how hard it is to find bottom currently.
> 
> Yeah.... the rebound is a ***. I can barely fit one finger back there and have to mash it against the knob to try to get enough grip for it to turn, makes it harder to feel clicks as well. I mean its doable on the 11/6 but its a pain.


Ha! Fair enough! I suppose at that price you might as well give it a go. I'll be curious to hear how it goes for you.

And yeah, that was pretty much what imagined with the rebound. I guess once you get it dialed in you don't have to mess with it too much...


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

The Springdex is rad. You don't realize how useful something like that is until you actually test each setting on the trail. 
The price doesn't matter, but it does weigh more than a straight rate spring. 

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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> The Springdex is rad. You don't realize how useful something like that is until you actually test each setting on the trail.
> The price doesn't matter, but it does weigh more than a straight rate spring.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


So funny enough its actually 4grams lighter than the Push spring.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

adurant said:


> So funny enough its actually 4grams lighter than the Push spring.


The 620-690 sprindex is 95 grams heavier than the newest 650# EXT spring. 
However I'm on the Springdex currently because 650# just isn't quite the ideal rate.

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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Anyone have any intel on when more frames will be available (or where I can find one - Stealth LG specifically)?


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

First ride (finally) for me coming from last season on a Druid. Swapped over the parts and put the Lyrik to 170mm - frame's are within a pound comparing larges and DPX2 and Float X2. Very similar to the Druid with the biggest difference for me being the longer wheelbase and more travel - that's really it in a nutshell. Compared to the Druid it's just a step more into the 'enduro' category - still climbs as well and descends a little faster with more stability. I see using the Dreadnought in more terrain than I did on the Druid, it's not my daily but that might shift somewhat. Very fun ride in the end!


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

Watched Magnus Manson race crankworx DH this weekend and looked like he was on a dreadnought but couldn't tell. 

Anyone know what he was riding?


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## meeeeep (Apr 22, 2011)

ATXZJ said:


> Watched Magnus Manson race crankworx DH this weekend and looked like he was on a dreadnought but couldn't tell.
> 
> Anyone know what he was riding?


It's a dreadnought. I believe the fork is a short-stroked boxxer.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

FWIW looks like there is 1 Large Dreadnaught in stock at Fanatik.... https://www.fanatikbike.com/products/forbidden-dreadnought-frame-2021?variant=32841141813294


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

meeeeep said:


> It's a dreadnought. I believe the fork is a short-stroked boxxer.


I thought it was a dreadnought, but he was going too fast to know for sure. What a rad bike!


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

hothb said:


> FWIW looks like there is 1 Large Dreadnaught in stock at Fanatik.... Forbidden Bike Co. Dreadnought Frame


No one buy it my brother is on duty and can't order it till tonight haha


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Im debating...but I really don't like the Deep Space 9 color.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

hothb said:


> FWIW looks like there is 1 Large Dreadnaught in stock at Fanatik.... Forbidden Bike Co. Dreadnought Frame


If you buy that last remaining frame expect to get a call the following day that says something like;

"Our inventory system doesn't update automatically and that frame was sold 4x last night. You were the second buyer unfortunately. Your card hasn't been charged, would you like to stay on the waiting list?"

Ask me how I know.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

lol. Figured that was the case.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

Salespunk said:


> If you buy that last remaining frame expect to get a call the following day that says something like;
> 
> "Our inventory system doesn't update automatically and that frame was sold 4x last night. You were the second buyer unfortunately. Your card hasn't been charged, would you like to stay on the waiting list?"
> 
> Ask me how I know.


Yeah thats what happened lol. Oh well, new range is out as quite the competitor to the dreadnought&#8230;


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

MyDadSucks said:


> Yeah thats what happened lol. Oh well, new range is out as quite the competitor to the dreadnought&#8230;


Bummed for you, but some good options out there now. Enduro frame sets are available including the non SWorks version which is a steal right now at $2900 (that sounds insane, but accurate in this market).


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Why can't I buy it from Canada? 

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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

MyDadSucks said:


> Yeah thats what happened lol. Oh well, new range is out as quite the competitor to the dreadnought&#8230;


Yea I think the Noirco was designed by Owen as well...


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

And now devinci just release a prototype of the bike of my dream... Should i cancel my dreadnought order...

I mean split pivot is working SSSSOOOOO well

High pivot seems to work very well too reading this thread of the forum

So HIGH SPLIT PIVOT must be amazing ^^


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Fanatikbike won't ship the bike to Canada. 

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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Picard said:


> Fanatikbike won't ship the bike to Canada.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


I'm in france, so i have the same problem, what i did is ship it to a "cargo compagny" ( sorry my english is bad put i'm sure you get it ). The the compagny ships it to me in france 

fanatik said to me "i can ship anywhere in the US"


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

I know of a few dreadnought frames for sale in Canada if that's what you're looking for

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Should I order forbidden or Norco Range?

I am so confused. 

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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Picard said:


> Should I order forbidden or Norco Range?
> 
> I am so confused.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Im leaning Range now ...


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

hothb said:


> Im leaning Range now ...


Why do you want the range?

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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Picard said:


> Why do you want the range?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


It sounds like the Dreadnaught but poppy.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

hothb said:


> It sounds like the Dreadnaught but poppy.


How do you know it will be poppy?

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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

So far every review and impression says it is... 🤷‍♂️


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Picard said:


> Should I order forbidden or Norco Range?
> 
> I am so confused.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Just wait the devinci man...


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

hugosxm said:


> Just wait the devinci man...


What are they coming out with?

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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

jay_paradox said:


> What are they coming out with?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Νew Spartan 29er carbon, High (Split) pivot.

Although, from all those new High pivot trail/enduro bikes coming out soon, this year, Forbidden Dreadnought, is the more mature/refined design, by far, IMHO.

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I go insane just waiting for these bikes


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

After the Dreadnought, quite nice/interesting is the new Cannondale Jekyl High pivot bike

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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

tp806 said:


> Νew Spartan 29er carbon, High (Split) pivot.
> 
> Although, from all those new High pivot trail/enduro bikes coming out soon, this year, Forbidden Dreadnought, is the more mature/refined design, by far, IMHO.
> 
> Sent from my Xperia XZ Premium using Tapatalk


Yea I was really impressed by the range, but then I looked a the tech drawings... Still impressed but there's considerably more bearings than the dread, and for the concentric bb pivot it ain't simple... From what I can tell you have two threaded bb cups that you press your press fit BBs into, you then put in linkage and thread one bb cup into the frame, and then the other bb cup threads into the first bb cup, you then have two bb retainer pieces to keep the cups from rotating out. I mean the design is impressive and who knows it may work very well without issue... but man thats a lot of potential for creaks/issues, and a lot of maintenance/bearings regardless.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I called a few LBS and they told me that they can't order new Norco Range. Distributor aren't stocking them 

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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

tp806 said:


> After the Dreadnought, quite nice/interesting is the new Cannondale Jekyl High pivot bike


As a druid owner with a dreadnought on order, i think the elephant in the room that nobody is talking about is the forward axle path of both bikes....on the rebound stroke the rear wheel is being accelerated into successive bumps, and likely packing deep in the travel. The axle path of the Jekyl is what I have envisioned as optimal...a balance, of sorts. anyhow, that's how it plays out in my head...as with most things, balance is key....


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

the rang won't be available until next year.


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## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

tp806 said:


> Νew Spartan 29er carbon, High (Split) pivot.
> 
> Although, from all those new High pivot trail/enduro bikes coming out soon, this year, Forbidden Dreadnought, is the more mature/refined design, by far, IMHO.
> 
> Sent from my Xperia XZ Premium using Tapatalk


What makes you think the Dreadnought is the more mature and refined design compared to the Norco and Cannondale?

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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

fizzywater said:


> What makes you think the Dreadnought is the more mature and refined design compared to the Norco and Cannondale?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


IMHO, mostly because Forbidden is already two years ahead of the curve, with the Druid being the first mainstream high pivot trail bike.
So since the Dreadnought is more or less like a beafier Druid, and that suspension design is on its second iteration, any teething problems should be ironed out now on the Dreadnought hopefully.
Hence it seems to me that this bike is more refined. 
Don't get me wrong both the new Jekyll and Range look like very good bikes, but they are 1st generation High pivot designs and more complicated, so they are bound to have some issues and need to prove reliable; whereas Forbidden's design is already race proven.

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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

The lower link on the new Range is very concerning. The Loam Wolf just did a short review on it and they have already suffered strikes to that link and they were at a bike park. For an enduro bike that I'll be using as my daily driver, I'm sticking with the Dreadnought. LBS said it will be ready this week. So stoked!


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## Energ8t (Sep 10, 2013)

tdc_worm said:


> As a druid owner with a dreadnought on order, i think the elephant in the room that nobody is talking about is the forward axle path of both bikes....on the rebound stroke the rear wheel is being accelerated into successive bumps, and likely packing deep in the travel. The axle path of the Jekyl is what I have envisioned as optimal...a balance, of sorts. anyhow, that's how it plays out in my head...as with most things, balance is key....


Yeah, I was thinking about that too and it sounds logical if you're thinking about this on paper, but I'm not so sure that the actual "forwardness" of the rebound is as dramatic or negative as it appears. There's all kinds of factors to consider like moving wheel, moving bike, more forces from impacts compared to forces from rebound, braking, etc. I don't feel any obvious negative rebound on my Druid and I certainly don't notice any excessive packing up. I'm on a ElevenSix with a Cascade Link as well though. Would be interesting to do a test comparison of Dreadnought vs. Range. The Range suspension certainly looks pretty balanced in action. Not much to say about that lower link position though, nor that 37lb mark. Would be a great all-around DH capable sled to own. Looks killer.

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## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

tp806 said:


> IMHO, mostly because Forbidden is already two years ahead of the curve, with the Druid being the first mainstream high pivot trail bike.
> So since the Dreadnought is more or less like a beafier Druid, and that suspension design is on its second iteration, any teething problems should be ironed out now on the Dreadnought hopefully.
> Hence it seems to me that this bike is more refined.
> Don't get me wrong both the new Jekyll and Range look like very good bikes, but they are 1st generation High pivot designs and more complicated, so they are bound to have some issues and need to prove reliable; whereas Forbidden's design is already race proven.
> ...


I see...yep, I think I would agree with your sentiment. Am now on my 2nd year on the Druid and big Forbidden fan. The bike works extremely well for its intended use case and then some and personally I think it works great as an AM bike especially with 160 travel on the front and frame is very easy to work on compared to other brands I had in the past. Back to the Dreadnought...The suspension design seems less complex than the Norco and Cannondale and that's a big plus in my book. Very tempted by the Dreadnought, but not sure I have the balls and skills to do it justice. Most likely I am going to go Cascade link on my Druid and go coil with Bomber CR.

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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

tdc_worm said:


> As a druid owner with a dreadnought on order, i think the elephant in the room that nobody is talking about is the forward axle path of both bikes....on the rebound stroke the rear wheel is being accelerated into successive bumps, and likely packing deep in the travel. The axle path of the Jekyl is what I have envisioned as optimal...a balance, of sorts. anyhow, that's how it plays out in my head...as with most things, balance is key....


Cannondale does come forward but the Range is completely rearward.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-the-forbidden-dreadnought-gets-rowdy-in-let-it-run.html



Hmm...saying XT builds now available...


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

Small and XL bikes are still available.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

TLD80 said:


> Small and XL bikes are still available.


where?


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

hothb said:


> where?


Forbidden's website. Not sure what the availability is now though.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

So LBS got a Range C2 in...parking lot test...woah...crazy feeling bike but too much for me I think. It really does feel like a DH bike trying to be an Enduro bike. I've never sat on a Dreadnaught...but if the feeling is similar im bummed.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

hothb said:


> So LBS got a Range C2 in...parking lot test...woah...crazy feeling bike but too much for me I think. It really does feel like a DH bike trying to be an Enduro bike. I've never sat on a Dreadnaught...but if the feeling is similar im bummed.


im not surprised, most of their team were competing in DH races on the range with dual crowns.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

I have a 2020 Demo 29 as a DH rig and the Range makes that thing seem small / non-squishy. Wild bike...linkage is something to see in person.

FWIW bike shop guy said C1s wont be available till July 2022 given part shortages from SRAM and Fox.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

hothb said:


> So LBS got a Range C2 in...parking lot test...woah...crazy feeling bike but too much for me I think. It really does feel like a DH bike trying to be an Enduro bike. I've never sat on a Dreadnaught...but if the feeling is similar im bummed.


Is the bike feel slower in turns?
Is it heavy?

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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Slower...I don't know...its just a lot of bike is the best way to describe it. Its not too heavy IMO...


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Just to let you know everyone, I sent a mail to forbidden because I'm waiting a L one in stealth, pre-ordered at fanatik, I paste you the answer :

Hey Hugo,

We are sorry your are experiencing a delay on receiving your bike. Please keep communicating with Fanatik as we will be updating them more frequently. With the current supply-chain challenges and unprecedented shipping backlogs, we are seeing months and months of delays with products getting to dealers. The current flow of product is very uncertain and one reason why we at Forbidden do not recommend any pre-sales. Last month we sent a large amount of Steath Dreadnoughts to them but it appears we are still a few months away from the next batch landing in Canada. We will keep Fanatik in the loop with information we receive. You can expect to receive your Dreadnought frame in the fall when the next shipment arrives. Again we are sorry about the delay as you must be excited to hop on your new bike.


Seems we have to wait a bit... Thanks covid... But glad to see forbidden answer clearly


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## c_ham (May 14, 2011)

Hey all, having a bit of a dilemma, currently riding a L Druid and looking to move up to the Dreadnought. I am 5'11/180cm and am debating between a L and a M (I can get a medium now). Is there anyone that was in my situation that has moved down in size on the Dreadnought? It seems everyone goes to a Large but huge bikes are not always my favorite. Similar scenario with the SB150 and I didnt get along that well with the Large but the Medium worked, but obviously the rear center/chainstay situation is different.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

c_ham said:


> Hey all, having a bit of a dilemma, currently riding a L Druid and looking to move up to the Dreadnought. I am 5'11/180cm and am debating between a L and a M (I can get a medium now). Is there anyone that was in my situation that has moved down in size on the Dreadnought? It seems everyone goes to a Large but huge bikes are not always my favorite. Similar scenario with the SB150 and I didnt get along that well with the Large but the Medium worked, but obviously the rear center/chainstay situation is different.


I'm also 5'11" and went from a large SB6, to a large SB150 to a Large Dreadnought. I initially concerned about the extra reach going from the SB6 to the SB150 but it worked out great for me. The Dreadnought is within a few mm of the Stack/Reach of the 150 so it also works for me. If you sized down on the Yeti, it seems to make sense to size down on the Dreadnought


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

hothb said:


> Slower...I don't know...its just a lot of bike is the best way to describe it. Its not too heavy IMO...


how did the range react to turns?


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

Picard said:


> how did the range react to turns?


no offense but i doubt he got any real cornering feel for it during a parking lot test.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

c_ham said:


> Hey all, having a bit of a dilemma, currently riding a L Druid and looking to move up to the Dreadnought. I am 5'11/180cm and am debating between a L and a M (I can get a medium now). Is there anyone that was in my situation that has moved down in size on the Dreadnought? It seems everyone goes to a Large but huge bikes are not always my favorite. Similar scenario with the SB150 and I didnt get along that well with the Large but the Medium worked, but obviously the rear center/chainstay situation is different.


also 5'11. had large sb150 went with a large dreadnought. I'm enjoying it.


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

Went for my maiden voyage Saturday morning. My Dreadnought is a Medium XT complete build. I'm 5'9" or 175cm. Since this is my daily driver I wanted to get a good amount of climbing in to see how well it would do. I ended up climbing 2500 feet on a mixture of smooth and rocky terrain. I had a couple of burning questions about this bike I really wanted answered. First, how noticeable would the drag be and second, how would the rear suspension feel. When initially setting out for the ride I definitely noticed the drag but it wasn't too bad. I think it was because I was specifically trying to feel how much there was. I discovered that after a while I forgot about it. Once I was in the groove of just climbing and not really trying to notice the drag, the sensation kind of faded and it began to just feel normal. I know the drag was still there but it wasn't as pronounced. Climbing over rock ledges the feeling was amazing. The back end of the bike simply gets out of the way. I don't consider myself a suspension guru who notices the fine nuances of suspension design but on the Dreadnought I was really surprised how much I could feel it move out of the way. It was awesome. Climbing efficiency is also impressive. Next to no pedal bob. I haven't weighed the bike but I'd guess around 34-35 lbs. If you have the legs and lungs it will get you where you want to go. I've mostly been in the weight room and riding my dirt bike so my cycling fitness is rather poor at the moment but even still, I climbed better than I thought I would. I was the limiting factor, not the bike. When it comes to descending it was what you would expect. I rode some black diamond super steep and rocky terrain that I had never ridden before. (I was out of town for the holiday weekend) The gnarlier the terrain the more it shined. The rear suspension is so good that I'm going to have to really play with my fork settings to find a similar level of performance. I would say the bike is exactly what I was looking for. I wanted a brawler of a bike that could climb well enough and then descend like a beast and that is what this bike is. Super stoked after just one ride!!!


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

MyDadSucks said:


> no offense but i doubt he got any real cornering feel for it during a parking lot test.


Yea i mean i rode it for 30 seconds in a parking lot...lol. its a lot of bike is all i can say


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## jvo (Jun 10, 2006)

If anyone is interested, I have a Dreadnought frame for sale. Stealth Large. Ridden twice (total 24miles). PM any questions.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

jvo said:


> If anyone is interested, I have a Dreadnought frame for sale. Stealth Large. Ridden twice (total 24miles). PM any questions.


I'm actually looking for a M so not for me but I'm interested by "why is this frame for sale"? Did not match your expectations?


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

hugosxm said:


> I'm actually looking for a M so not for me but I'm interested by "why is this frame for sale"? Did not match your expectations?


I want to know too. Why are selling the frame?

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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

Here's my Dreadnought build. 2021 Forbidden Dreadnought

Been riding it for over a month in Orange county, Southern California. Here's the pro and cons I have had so far, my personal experience.

*Cons*

Fanatic Bikes
The frame arrived poorly package. You can see frame damage at the end of the rear triangle.










Since I waited months for the frame, I decided to fix it myself, color match fill, gently sand up to high grit, polish, cover with a piece of RideWrap and ride on. In return, Fanatik gave me $25 gift card. Considering frame cost $3500, felt like insult to injury.

I ordered my frame with just a Chris King headset. Nothing else. Somehow, Fanatik assumed it was for this bike and installed it without my permission. In my opinion, whoever over there installed my headtube (not sure if it was faced & reamed), did a poor job. The top of my head tube arrived badly marred.










This is the response I got from Fanatik, "They didnt' mare that up. That is how the paint is around the headtube. I'll take photos of mine tonight at home to show you. Thats how mine looks as well around the headset."

BTW I never got that photo. To me, whether from factory or dealer, this should never be an issue for a $3500 frame.

I had no idea my order from Fanatik would cause such a sh*tt4 experience. I wish I tried harder to look for other options to purchase.


Not sure if this is a legit Con but the rear shock is a little bit overly aggressive. EXT Storia Lok v3 came recommended with 400 and 425 lb springs. I'm ~190lb with gear. Right now I'm on the 400lb spring, my LSC is completely opened, HSC 3 clicks from completely opened. About 25% sag. For me, this is perfect for aggressive riding, which I consider 80% or above from my fastest pace. Probably perfect for racing. I feel like I have never bottomed out. I recently ordered a 375 lb spring but haven't installed it. By the way, the newer EXT springs are shorter and lighter than the old. Otherwise, the rear linkage and custom shock combo is the best I've ever ridden.










Low bottom bracket. My previous bike is a Pivot Mach 6 with 170mm cranks, never had a problem with pedal strike. I've had plenty of time on the current Enduro which has noticeable higher BB height, never pedal strike. With 170mm cranks on the Dreadnought, I was pedal striking places where I never would. Thankfully, not enough to throw me off my bike. I just switched to 165 mm cranks and haven't pedal strike yet. But climbing took a hit. I hope my stamina and legs will comfortably adjust or I'll have to go back to 170mm and take extra caution. I prefer not to. Otherwise, the lower center of gravity is amazing and for me, noticeably better handling compared to an equivalent Enduro or Uzzi. Slight compromise. But I'm still learning this bike.

Idler noise. When the chain starts to get a little dusty, even after a three hour dry ride, the noise is noticeable. The stock idler is narrow/wide teeth. I got a Jank Components stainless steel idler carrier and installed it with the Wippermann Connex 16T sprocket which is not narrow/wide but harder than stock alloy and designed for Bosch e-bike motor. It's expected to last 3x longer. Noise is gone.










Bash guard strikes. Vancan on Youtube recently pointed out the same issue for the new HPP competitor, Norco Range. Same issue with the Dreadnought. I've hit my BB bash guard a few times sending it up and over rocks where I normally don't. On the positive side, it seems the E*thirteen bash guard works well with minimal scratch. Something I'm more cautious now when I ride.

Way too easy to strip frame threads. Particularly for the following two cable port and tool thread. Even gently seating them by hand, gave me moments cussing up a storm. Stupid for a $3500 frame. I sort of question if the frame threads are stainless steel.










Inadequate down tube guard protection. In SoCal, there's plenty baby head rocks ready to kick up and smash against your down tube, and crack your frame. I've seen this one too many times. Out of precaution, I added another.










My rear axel has backed out on me. I torqued it to recommended 10 Nm and after 2 rides, it backed out. I never experienced this before. Now I apply plenty of blue loctite and always double check torque before rides.

Warranty. It would be nice if Forbidden leveled up to competing brands and provide life-time warranty for original owners. I guess five years isn't bad. Just doesn't give me ambition to be a next level loyal customer. 
*Pros*
I'll try to stay away from the obvious which is basically, this is the best bike I've ever ridden. Of course considering my preference, I only climb for the down hill... 

No chain slap noise. Because it's high pivot, while on the 10t cog, the chain is literally millimeters from the seat stay. Whatever compound Forbidden is using for the protector/noise dampening, it's next level. I don't hear or feel anything resembling chain slap. Or maybe tension is that tight?

Perfect anti-rise. Before acquiring the bike, I was aware of some references regarding anti-rise in Forbidden's trifecta design

A Vulture's Eye View of MTB Suspension Kinematics: Pedal Kickback, Anti-Squat, Anti-Rise, and More - Singletracks Mountain Bike News
Forbidden Druid Review - Are high pivots just for downhill? | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine
Forbidden Dreadnought XT first ride review

I've been diligently trying to find issue regarding anti-rise but have not. Here in SoCal, It's dry hard packed with plenty of brake bumps. To me, this bike has handled every bit of it like a champ, and I've come in charging hard. The front wheel magically doesn't dive like my DW link Mach 6 and the rear wheel tracks right along. In my opinion, it's the perfect balance. I don't know, maybe EXT has something special going on with their custom tune. From what I hear with other people experience with EXT, I wouldn't be surprised.


Anti-squat. Basically, it's a champ. I used to always lock out the shock and still will on long climbs. EXT's lok v3 does a good job keeping the shock at the end of the travel and my center mass up and over the bottom bracket. Half the time I don't mind leaving it open bc the rear wheel get's up and over so effortlessly and pedal bob is pretty much nonexistent. And yeah, even though on paper it's a hog going up hill, I've somehow been able to clean tech sections of climb I've never cleared before. Find a decent line, be light on the front when you need to be, charge, and it'll plow over and not get hung up.

Stability. For me it's absolutely true. If you have never ridden this bike or a similar geo high pivot bike, at your limit, the Dreadnought will redefine the type of steep terrain you currently think is stable or not.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Thanks for that review man! Did fanatik wrap your frame too or you did it yourself?


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

hugosxm said:


> Thanks for that review man! Did fanatik wrap your frame too or you did it yourself?


Yeah, no problem! Fanatik was out of stock. I ordered straight from RideWrap and did it myself.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

pnguyen3 said:


> Yeah, no problem! Fanatik was out of stock. I ordered straight from RideWrap and did it myself.


I ordered from fanatik with the frame, they charge a lot for the wrapping process so i hope it will be done as cleanly as yours man ^^


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

pnguyen3 said:


> Here's my Dreadnought build. 2021 Forbidden Dreadnought
> 
> Been riding it for over a month in Orange county, Southern California. Here's the pro and cons I have had so far, my personal experience.
> 
> ...


What is that Vorsprung thing?

Also 180mm in the front...? Think thats part of the plushness?

Would you buy the bike again knowing what you know now?


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

hothb said:


> What is that Vorsprung thing?
> 
> Also 180mm in the front...? Think thats part of the plushness?
> 
> Would you buy the bike again knowing what you know now?


I saw this on pinkbike i think, it's like an "extension" of your negative chamber ... see there => Secus Fork Air Spring Upgrade Kit - Fox & Rockshox Forks


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

hugosxm said:


> I saw this on pinkbike i think, it's like an "extension" of your negative chamber ... see there => Secus Fork Air Spring Upgrade Kit - Fox & Rockshox Forks


Which one fit the zeb?
A1
A2 
Foxa1

I am confused

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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Picard said:


> Which one fit the zeb?
> A1
> A2
> Foxa1
> ...


I GUESS rockshox A2 but i can't certify my answer ^^


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

pnguyen3 said:


> Here's my Dreadnought build. 2021 Forbidden Dreadnought
> 
> Been riding it for over a month in Orange county, Southern California. Here's the pro and cons I have had so far, my personal experience.
> 
> ...


I pretty much entirely agree with what you wrote and thought I'd share a few of my own opinions now that I've had it for about a month.

For some perspective, I'm nearly 50 years old and started racing mountain bikes in the late 80's. I used to race in the expert XC category, raced the 24hrs of Canaan once as a pro (and four other times) and got some top 3 finishes competing in biketrials in the late 90's in the expert stock class. Starting in '93, I was a shop mechanic and managed a few shops over the years. I used to design trials components in the 90's and have been designing and building custom titanium bikes since 2006 as well as having an instructor at UBI for their mechanic, framebuilding and TIG welding classes. A few years ago I raced some Super-D's and was very average...in the top 20% in the masters class.

Frame Prep - I'd say this is the worst high end frame I've ever seen when it comes to prep but I want to share my opinion that Fanatyk isn't responsible. To the best of my knowledge, there aren't any shop tools available for face/chase/ream procedures on carbon frames. Standard cutting tools have an extremely high probability of catching a fiber and ruining the frame in a hurry. It's generally accepted that carbon frames will be properly prepped from the factory, but it's obvious that whoever is doing these isn't doing a great job. It looks like the paint was scraped off of the seating surfaces with a blade and did a poor job of it. I also want to share that I personally don't care that it looks ratty (though it's certainly not my preference) but on my own frame, either the head tube bore isn't concentric or the faces aren't parallel so my headset pops and creaks when I turn the bars. I've had a warranty inquiry open with Fanatyk for nearly a month and apparently Forbidden doesn't see fit to discuss it with them...the only reason I started the warranty process at all was to keep it intact before I set out to fix it myself by machining a facing tool that can be used with an abrasive, which won't grab any carbon fibers and start something bad.

I also want to point out that the bores for the rear axle aren't concentric and the drive side isn't located properly to allow the shoulders of the dropout to support the hub axle while inserting the axle as intended. The tolerance on those features is pretty far out from what I'm used to dealing with.

Also, the majority of the nutserts were set slightly crooked and one of them already had stripped threads which is a bummer to deal with on a new bike. They may very well be stainless and it should be noted that stainless doesn't automatically mean that it's a hard material. After all, these look like nutserts, which rely on being easily deformed during the installation process.

Shock - I haven't really taken the time to delve into what exactly is going on, but I haven't been able to get it dialed in. I ordered mine with the X2, knowing that I'd order a DHX2 but not knowing that it would take until September to get it. So while I'm waiting, I ordered a Push, hoping THAT would be the cure to the lack of suspension movement. After a few weeks of riding, bracketing and constant fiddling, I've sent it back to Push to have them revalve it with a lighter compression tune on the main circuit and rebound...I could never get the shock to move quickly enough and neither the X2 or the Push were very active in the high frequency bumps. To me this shows up mostly in two situations...rear end traction in chunky corners where the back end is skipping out and in high speed scree sections where it packs up and kicks around. My points of comparison are an SB-6 that I still have and remains the most dialed bike I've ever owned but now feels too short, and an SB150 that I got a great shock setup on, but due to the way the back end is designed, feels too flexible (twist) to me in corners and also bottoms out too easily with a coil. The dreadnought feels extremely stiff (twist) in the back, but it seems to require a lot of bump force to get it to move.

As a note, I'd had to add 10psi to my fork to get the ride feel to match the rear end, otherwise it felt like it was diving too easily while the rear end of the Dreadnought stayed high in the travel. Now my front end is skipping around a bit too and I'm only using 140mm of the 170mm travel...but at least it matches the feel and I don't get bucked forward.

Low BB - I'm totally with you there. My regular riding area has a few low angle rock gardens that need a few pedal strokes to keep the speed up and really low BB's suck. FYI, somewhere earlier in this thread I wrote that I enquired with Forbidden about running a Ziggy link with a 29" rear wheel - they said that it wouldn't work because "not enough clearance" and also voids the warranty - their reason didn't make any sense at all because the only conceivable area with reduced clearance would be at full bottom out. Just for fun I installed it without a shock, installed a 29" wheel and ran it through the range of travel...it's fine. No issues anywhere. I am unable to confirm that I've tried it on the trail or if it reduces pedal strikes as one might imagine. I'm also unable to confirm that a titanium headset base plate that I machined to adjust the front end of my Yeti, works perfectly in conjunction with the Zig link and a 29" rear wheel to provide a better buffer for pedal strikes and that it makes a pretty big difference while riding. I really wish I could test it in the real world, but that would void the warranty.

Doesn't the mention of bash guard strikes belong here too? It's largely a function of the low BB unless you're also running a small ring and can't find a smaller replacement guard to gain more clearance.

IMG_2279 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

Idler noise - I hated it at first, but it's gotten quieter as it wore in. I don't notice it now to be honest but I assume it's a high wear part and I'm not wild about the load on that bolt since it's cantilevered out from the frame. We'll see how that goes long term.

Down tube protection - seems on par with most carbon frames I've seen...which is inadequate. Is there anything good out there? I've had an idea to use some D3O type material with a hard shell on the outside to spread out the load on rock strikes but I've not been successful in getting the company to be interested in working with me. The idea is that the hard shell might prevent the initial "intrusion" of a rock strike and would spread the load more quickly to firm up the material than if it was just a layer of D3O. I killed a Yeti with a rock that got kicked up into the DT guard...there's no way that conventional rubber can do an adequate job. If anyone out there borrows my idea and turns it into a product, just sent me one. I don't want to get borked as hard as Cane Creek borked me when we discussed a headset design a decade ago.

I've been incredibly fortunate in that this is the first frame that I'd paid full price for since sometime in the early 90's. Based on the buzz, I had pretty high expectations and I was honestly let down on all fronts. That said, I don't wish to attempt to state that $3500 isn't a lot of money...it is...but in the context of high end frames these days, it's a pretty good price. That's $700 less than an SB150. I'm still hopeful that when I get my revalved shock back from Push, it'll change the responsiveness of the back end. IF that happens, I'll be able to say that I'm happy with the bike. If not, I honestly couldn't say whether or not I'd keep it since in practical terms it has one of the same problems as the SB150 in getting kicked around in corners albeit for different reasons.

Interestingly I've gotten more compliments on this bike than any bike I've owned in the last 30 years, which is amusing because it's always followed by "how do you like it?" and I have to consider whether or not the person wants an honest answer or are hoping for something quick and polite.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

smudge said:


> I pretty much entirely agree with what you wrote and thought I'd share a few of my own opinions now that I've had it for about a month.
> 
> For some perspective, I'm nearly 50 years old and started racing mountain bikes in the late 80's. I used to race in the expert XC category, raced the 24hrs of Canaan once as a pro (and four other times) and got some top 3 finishes competing in biketrials in the late 90's in the expert stock class. Starting in '93, I was a shop mechanic and managed a few shops over the years. I used to design trials components in the 90's and have been designing and building custom titanium bikes since 2006 as well as having an instructor at UBI for their mechanic, framebuilding and TIG welding classes. A few years ago I raced some Super-D's and was very average...in the top 20% in the masters class.
> 
> ...


Man I'm really glad you did nothing to void your warranty!

Thanks you too for that amazing review

Good reviews like that help waiting for my frame ^^


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

I wonder if the issue is these shocks are simply not tuned for the leverage. These are just OE shocks that we're all hoping work. The bigger brands have the luxury of working with Fox/SRAM/etc. to get the correct tune from the factory...I've found this to make a big difference over the years...watch the Norco making of the Range video...they worked with Fox for months to get the right tune...and rear reviews of people not running a DHX2...same issues...everything has to be wide open and even then it does not work optimally in many cases.

I have a Druid and I hate to say it but its been largely disappointing...300+ miles in and I still can't tell if it feels good...just feels like the compromises are too big for plushness vs. compliance.

Who knows....I like the bike, but I think i'll be looking elsewhere for the next ride.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

I I'm on a large dreadnought.. 38 upfront with 98 psi, push in the rest with 400 spring. This rear flat out is awesome. I'm in Alberta /bc rockies. Roots, steep and rocks. Had a few bike park days on it too. The rear of this bike feels amazing to me and it's been a struggle to get the fork to the same level. I have no trouble hitting bottom on the rear although with the push you can barely tell you are doing it. The biggest struggle I've had now is getting bucked forward on big bike park jumps. Maybe it's a year off of no jumps last year or what but i am struggling to find the balance point for senders. I showed the rear rebound down a couple notches and that seemed to help. Sped the lsr in the fork up a bit and that also helped.

This bike compares well to most dh bikes I've had as far as bike park goes. I have no complaints about the rear suspension and i wonder if it comes down to shock and tune? A buddy is on the storia on his and judging by his riding the other day he did not have any problems either. One other is on the x2 and seems to have it sorted now. I'm about 185 geared up. 

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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

hugosxm said:


> Man I'm really glad you did nothing to void your warranty!
> 
> Thanks you too for that amazing review
> 
> Good reviews like that help waiting for my frame ^^


I didn't think I wrote anything good at all.

So here you go: I like how torsionally stiff the frame feels and it climbs pretty well. The bosses under the top tube are a nice addition even if I don't use them. The tire clearance is fantastic, especially here in the PNW it's much appreciated.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

smudge said:


> I didn't think I wrote anything good at all.
> 
> So here you go: I like how torsionally stiff the frame feels and it climbs pretty well. The bosses under the top tube are a nice addition even if I don't use them. The tire clearance is fantastic, especially here in the PNW it's much appreciated.


I mean your review is good, I was not talking about the frame itself but the quality of your writing man!


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

crashidy said:


> This rear flat out is awesome. I'm in Alberta /bc rockies. Roots, steep and rocks. Had a few bike park days on it too. The rear of this bike feels amazing to me and it's been a struggle to get the fork to the same level...
> 
> ...This bike compares well to most dh bikes I've had as far as bike park goes. I have no complaints about the rear suspension and i wonder if it comes down to shock and tune?


This has been _exactly _my experience with the Druid, and I'm looking seriously at the Dread for the next bike. I love the feel of the Druid, and I want more: more travel, more slackitude, more stability.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

hugosxm said:


> I mean your review is good, I was not talking about the frame itself but the quality of your writing man!


LOL! Yes, I was thinking the same thing. "That is one very well written negative review!"


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

hugosxm said:


> I mean your review is good, I was not talking about the frame itself but the quality of your writing man!


Got it and thank you. I seldom write things like this because I feel that nuance and perspective is so important to the interpretation of someone's opinions but they so often get lost or misconstrued. Clear nuanced communication is hard (for me).


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

So do we like this bike or not guys?

Lol...this thread is an emotional rollercoaster. I want a long travel Enduro sled...should I be considering this?


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

hothb said:


> So do we like this bike or not guys?
> 
> Lol...this thread is an emotional rollercoaster. I want a long travel Enduro sled...should I be considering this?


I absolutely love it. The more time I spend on it the faster I get. I've got three buddies on them as well.
If you want a bike that eats roots and chunder and encourages you to go faster... Then you'll like this.

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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

hothb said:


> What is that Vorsprung thing?
> 
> Also 180mm in the front...? Think thats part of the plushness?
> 
> Would you buy the bike again knowing what you know now?


Basically, Secus gives you coil like linear travel with benefits of air; progressive ramp up, adjustability, weight, etc. In my opinion and ride style, I think it's worth it. For further details, I'm going to have to refer you to the experts at Vorsprung.





I initially got 170mm airshaft and planned to install, but after riding 180mm w the Secus, decided not to. I wouldn't describe the Fox 38 or my current EXT Storia tune as plush. I would describe it from factory as race tune and aggressive. It's been over a month and I'm still fine tuning my suspension, learning and trying to figure out what I like. Currently I'm very happy with it, but I'm contemplating if I should take it to a specialized suspension shop and get their feedback. I'm almost certain there's more room in tuning that I don't know.

Good question.. After riding high pivot point, I don't think I'm interested in other linkage designs, and I'm pretty much sold on mullet. Since I reserved the Dreadnought back in Feb, there's been a few bikes I recently learned that spark interest. I have to do more research but I would look at Kavenz bikes out of Germany and their virtual high pivot point. Obviously Norco's new Range but maybe size down since they don't seem to offer mullet. Reexplore the Druid since Cascade has a new revision to their Druid link, and seeing some of Forbidden race team recent set up on it. VitalMTB recently did a thing about converting the Pivot Phonex 29 DH bike to enduro. Installing a single crown, Axs dropper and making it climbable. I'm curious how feasible this would be for HPP DH Trek Session or Commencal Supreme. I'm guessing it's still far fetch from practical local trails but I would look into it. I'm honestly not too sure if I would buy the Dreadnought again, but I'm confident it would be top 3. As of right now, based on the smile factor sending it down hill, I'm very happy with it. For sure, I would get the EXT custom shock again purchased separately though EXT's U.S. distributor. They're legit. For me, they just about nailed it. But the saying with foreign based companies is true, customer service is far from par. As for Fanatik Bikes, I'm going to pass. I got the Ziggy link through Forbidden's only other U.S. dealer, C3 Bike Shop in Denver and my experience with them over the phone was pleasure. I happen to have family in that area so I wouldn't mind flying in to pick up a frame. For dropping this amount of money, I'd like to personally inspect the frame and have a face to face conversation with expertise at the shop.



Picard said:


> Which one fit the zeb?
> A1
> A2
> Foxa1
> ...


I'd have to refer you to the experts where I bough it. Full Flow suspension in Auburn, CA.. Yeah, from their website, looks like Zeb is Rockshox A2



smudge said:


> Frame Prep - I'd say this is the worst high end frame I've ever seen when it comes to prep but I want to share my opinion that Fanatyk isn't responsible. To the best of my knowledge, there aren't any shop tools available for face/chase/ream procedures on carbon frames. Standard cutting tools have an extremely high probability of catching a fiber and ruining the frame in a hurry. It's generally accepted that carbon frames will be properly prepped from the factory, but it's obvious that whoever is doing these isn't doing a great job. It looks like the paint was scraped off of the seating surfaces with a blade and did a poor job of it. I also want to share that I personally don't care that it looks ratty (though it's certainly not my preference) but on my own frame, either the head tube bore isn't concentric or the faces aren't parallel so my headset pops and creaks when I turn the bars. I've had a warranty inquiry open with Fanatyk for nearly a month and apparently Forbidden doesn't see fit to discuss it with them...the only reason I started the warranty process at all was to keep it intact before I set out to fix it myself by machining a facing tool that can be used with an abrasive, which won't grab any carbon fibers and start something bad.


You're not the only one I've heard this from.. to me, this is crazy how something like this get's past quality control. I'm also looking past the ratty look and I'm very thankful my headset has no pops and creaks. Thanks for your input Sean, no doubt I'd have a lot to learn from you.


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## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

hothb said:


> I wonder if the issue is these shocks are simply not tuned for the leverage. These are just OE shocks that we're all hoping work. The bigger brands have the luxury of working with Fox/SRAM/etc. to get the correct tune from the factory...I've found this to make a big difference over the years...watch the Norco making of the Range video...they worked with Fox for months to get the right tune...and rear reviews of people not running a DHX2...same issues...everything has to be wide open and even then it does not work optimally in many cases.
> 
> I have a Druid and I hate to say it but its been largely disappointing...300+ miles in and I still can't tell if it feels good...just feels like the compromises are too big for plushness vs. compliance.
> 
> Who knows....I like the bike, but I think i'll be looking elsewhere for the next ride.


I couldn't agree more w/ this - I too have a Druid with about 300 miles on it and I can't stop fiddling (coming off a Ripley that I was happy with, but wanted more travel). I have a Push 11-6 on it right now, compression wide open, but still feel likes it's very slow to react to all the rocks we have here in SE PA. After reading this thread, I think I'm going to send it back to Push to see what they can do. I keep wanting to love the bike, but it just feels like it's built (e.g. shock tunes) for really aggressive freeriders going mock chicken for 10,000 feet of descending. Have a Manitou Mara IL on the way and fingers crossed it helps, going to try mullet as well (always feel like the rear is riding so much higher than the front, even with a 160 fork).


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

What is the total weight of the bike? 

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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

pnguyen3 said:


> Here's my Dreadnought build. 2021 Forbidden Dreadnought
> 
> Been riding it for over a month in Orange county, Southern California. Here's the pro and cons I have had so far, my personal experience.
> 
> ...


Bike of the day - nice work!


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Just got home to find that my re-valved 11.6 is here. Before I install it again and because I can't reach PUSH until Monday, I thought I'd pose some questions here for those who are more familiar with 11.6 shocks than I am. 

The Dreadnought takes a shock with 65mm of stroke. On the 11.6, there is exactly 65mm of space between the main body and the bottom out bumper seat. Since the bottom out bumper can't occupy zero volume, and is constrained by the cup it sits in, this shock can't ever actually get 65mm of travel. Has anyone scrutinized their non-Push shocks out of a similar curiosity? Aren't these supposed to have a hydraulic bottom out? What's with the bumper then?

Just some info if anyone is curious...

The X2 weighs 681g and the Push with a 450lb spring is 924. It's not as much of a weight hit as I thought it would be. the 450lb spring itself weighs in at 430g while a Fox 475lbx2.75" SLS spring I have is 334g and a 400lbx74mm SLS spring is 344g. They also have the same ID. Take that for what it's worth.


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

smudge said:


> Just got home to find that my re-valved 11.6 is here. Before I install it again and because I can't reach PUSH until Monday, I thought I'd pose some questions here for those who are more familiar with 11.6 shocks than I am.
> 
> The Dreadnought takes a shock with 65mm of stroke. On the 11.6, there is exactly 65mm of space between the main body and the bottom out bumper seat. Since the bottom out bumper can't occupy zero volume, and is constrained by the cup it sits in, this shock can't ever actually get 65mm of travel. Has anyone scrutinized their non-Push shocks out of a similar curiosity? Aren't these supposed to have a hydraulic bottom out? What's with the bumper then?
> 
> ...


Maybe the 11-6 does not have a separate hydraulic bottom out (like the EXT shocks), hence the need for a thick bottom out bumper, whereas the EXT has a much thinner one. 
So very rarely in really hard bottom-outs will the 11-6 get near to full travel?
Have not tried a 11-6, just assuming from the bumper I have seen and info online 

* edit *
Seems I am wrong and 11-6 does have hydraulic bottom out as well in the latest version. 








ELEVENSIX







www.pushindustries.com





New Independent Hydraulic Bottom Out Piston

SPEED SENSITIVE HYDRAULIC BOTTOMING CONTROL
"Developed in conjunction with the hybrid HyperCoil progressive spring system, the secondary shaft piston provides large increases in compression damping during the last 15% of shock stroke. Because it's completely independent of the main damping piston there are no compromises in the shocks performance throughout the stroke."

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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

yes, I got off the phone with them a few minutes ago and they were very helpful. We discussed the bottom out and the bumper. Dylan explained that the valve for the hydraulic bottom out engages around the same time that the bumper makes contact. He also told me that at complete compression, the bottom out bumper is 2mm thick, which technically makes this a 63mm stroke shock.

Interestingly, Dylan also let me know that the valves on my shock are oriented differently than those in the image on the 11.6 support page...or maybe it's more accurate to say that the image on the support page is incorrect with the knob colors in the wrong spots. Still, he said my shock dyno tested that it was setup for a 600lb spring when there was a 450lb spring installed. They removed some shims but it's still too slow. I have a 425lb spring on the way but feel that it's very likely that this is going to go back again to lighten up the tune again.

Push is offering very good support, I just hope we can get the tune right soon.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Can the dreadnought accommodate 190mm fork? 

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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

593.7mm axle to crown max height, that is for sure !


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

hugosxm said:


> 593.7mm axle to crown max height, that is for sure !


Are you saying it can handle 190mm fork?

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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

I'm saying travel does not matter, axle to crown yes, and the number I told you is found on their website so it should be good


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

hugosxm said:


> I'm saying travel does not matter, axle to crown yes, and the number I told you is found on their website so it should be good


if you werent interested in doing math and taking the easy way out.....


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Fanatik has Nerds in stock in Large and XL!


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Just thought I'd post up a few thoughts I've been having about my L Dreadnought. On the good side, it's been a great bike to ride here on the Shore. Since March it's been my one bike, I don't often use the climb switch on the Storia when on the service roads, and technical climbing has been great. This thing really monster trucks over the terrain and is fairly easy to maneuver when hopping the rear end around if I need to. Frequent chain maintenance means the drivetrain stays pretty quiet most of the time.
It's taken a while to sort through springs and adjustments with the Storia but it's very close now, just waiting for a warranty replacement spring that stays straight when compressing so I don't hear a squeaking sound deep into the travel. 

Some of the downsides have been noted already. The frame finish around the headset isn't great, the crunch zone I solved with a fender and foam but it really should have a factory solution. The fender that I used (modified RRP bolt on) also extends further down to cover the linkage better.
The frame storage compartment is weak as you need to unscrew bolts to access, so I've left it empty. The bolt on cover doesn't even fit super flush to the frame. Downtube frame protection is minimal, they really should spec a 2/3 length bolt on guard. 

Given the company hasn't been around a long time, I'm fine with the small irritants, they'll solve the issues but it'll take time. 

Overall I love this thing, it's so much fun in steep loose loam and soft dirt (shore is sooo dry ATM), or when heading through steep slab sections and tech. It really is a blast to ride, and jumping has been fine as well, I have the rebound wide open, the bike can be playful but you feel the wheelbase.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Someone talk me out of the Dreadnaught...lol. Druid is not enough bike for me. I keep pushing it outside of what its capable of it feels like...my wife will not be happy...


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

HubbaMan said:


> Just thought I'd post up a few thoughts I've been having about my L Dreadnought. On the good side, it's been a great bike to ride here on the Shore. Since March it's been my one bike, I don't often use the climb switch on the Storia when on the service roads, and technical climbing has been great. This thing really monster trucks over the terrain and is fairly easy to maneuver when hopping the rear end around if I need to. Frequent chain maintenance means the drivetrain stays pretty quiet most of the time.
> It's taken a while to sort through springs and adjustments with the Storia but it's very close now, just waiting for a warranty replacement spring that stays straight when compressing so I don't hear a squeaking sound deep into the travel.
> 
> Some of the downsides have been noted already. The frame finish around the headset isn't great, the crunch zone I solved with a fender and foam but it really should have a factory solution. The fender that I used (modified RRP bolt on) also extends further down to cover the linkage better.
> ...


I'm interested in your experience with EXT. If I don't get this PUSH worked out, I'm going to look at one of those...maybe I shouldn't have cancelled the DHX2 I had on order. My concern with EXT is that there's one distributor in the US, there isn't really a retail network and it looks like they want to be the exclusive service center for the EXT products.

Your point about Forbidden being a new company is well taken BUT Owen Pemberton has been around for a while. I'm very well versed in metal bike manufacturing but only know a little about the communication chain when it comes to overseas carbon. I've been told by someone in the industry (and I don't know how reliable the info is) that Forbidden uses the same factory as Santa Cruz and a few others. It's interesting because Santa Cruz frames have some of the nicest fit and finish that I've seen from mass produced bikes so I'm curious about how it all works...and why the big difference in fit and finish? are there different levels of service? Different price points for tighter tolerances? Is it a matter of having someone on site who can clearly communicate finished product expectations?

My bike seems to creak from someplace new on every ride. I've had the shock out and linkage apart enough times that I've written the torque of each bolt head in paint pen. I just got a call tag from PUSH as I write this. I do want to go on record that for all the complaints I have about the bike and the shock so far, the level of service being provided by Dylan at PUSH is really great. Hopefully the third time's a charm.


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## Asininedrivel (Apr 15, 2021)

smudge said:


> Your point about Forbidden being a new company is well taken BUT Owen Pemberton has been around for a while. I'm very well versed in metal bike manufacturing but only know a little about the communication chain when it comes to overseas carbon. I've been told by someone in the industry (and I don't know how reliable the info is) that Forbidden uses the same factory as Santa Cruz and a few others. It's interesting because Santa Cruz frames have some of the nicest fit and finish that I've seen from mass produced bikes so I'm curious about how it all works...and why the big difference in fit and finish? are there different levels of service? Different price points for tighter tolerances? Is it a matter of having someone on site who can clearly communicate finished product expectations?


I'm sorry your experience with your frame has been so sub-par. These are expensive bits of kit and having poor fit and finish is neither acceptable nor confidence inspiring that the bike will comfortably perform as intended.

BUT.. I've now seen several Dreadnought frames come through my LBS (my own and examples of all colours) and I've found the opposite. Fit and finish has been exceptional across the board. I even checked around the headtube on mine - nothing untoward. The reason I'm responding is due to you mentioning Santa Cruz - on inspection that's what I thought the frame(s) quality was equivalent to, particularly paint finish.

Not excusing the quality of yours - that's not good enough imo. Perhaps there are some teething issues with consistency.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

smudge said:


> I'm interested in your experience with EXT. If I don't get this PUSH worked out, I'm going to look at one of those...maybe I shouldn't have cancelled the DHX2 I had on order. My concern with EXT is that there's one distributor in the US, there isn't really a retail network and it looks like they want to be the exclusive service center for the EXT products.
> 
> Your point about Forbidden being a new company is well taken BUT Owen Pemberton has been around for a while. I'm very well versed in metal bike manufacturing but only know a little about the communication chain when it comes to overseas carbon. I've been told by someone in the industry (and I don't know how reliable the info is) that Forbidden uses the same factory as Santa Cruz and a few others. It's interesting because Santa Cruz frames have some of the nicest fit and finish that I've seen from mass produced bikes so I'm curious about how it all works...and why the big difference in fit and finish? are there different levels of service? Different price points for tighter tolerances? Is it a matter of having someone on site who can clearly communicate finished product expectations?
> 
> My bike seems to creak from someplace new on every ride. I've had the shock out and linkage apart enough times that I've written the torque of each bolt head in paint pen. I just got a call tag from PUSH as I write this. I do want to go on record that for all the complaints I have about the bike and the shock so far, the level of service being provided by Dylan at PUSH is really great. Hopefully the third time's a charm.


Drag about the creaks, so far mine has been fine, sure hope it stays that way. Good luck with the Push shock, the LBS I dealt with told me when I bought the bike that a few folks had been using the Push shock for a while and we're loving it.

There were a few reasons I went with EXT, the dealer and service center is in Squamish, so just up the highway from North Vancouver. From what I had read the Storia is also lighter than the Push shock and both offer premium level performance. When I was about to get the bike back in March I was told there were no X2s coming from Fox for the foreseeable future, eta was sometime this summer. I had two levels of upcharge for either the Storia or a Push. So I took the cheaper of the two offerings because I didn't want to be waiting months for a shock when the rest of the bike was fully built up.

My feeling is both shock manufacturers could benefit from a larger pool of Dreadnought riders using their product in order to better fine tune their setting recommendations.


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## Grubs (Apr 25, 2019)

Anyone have setup tips for the 38 and X2? Forbidden doesn't have a setup guide yet


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Grubs said:


> Anyone have setup tips for the 38 and X2? Forbidden doesn't have a setup guide yet


For the X2 I followed the Druid DPX2 setup - set PSI the same, wide open on compression (HSC/LSC), a couple clicks in from fully open for HSR and a few clicks in (maybe 4) from fully open for LSR. Feels good to me so far.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Grubs said:


> Anyone have setup tips for the 38 and X2? Forbidden doesn't have a setup guide yet


38 start with what Fox suggests.

X2...set sag...then start wide open on all 4 settings. Start closing low speed rebound first...once rebound feels good...mess with compression (starting with LSC).


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## Grubs (Apr 25, 2019)

hothb said:


> 38 start with what Fox suggests.
> 
> X2...set sag...then start wide open on all 4 settings. Start closing low speed rebound first...once rebound feels good...mess with compression (starting with LSC).


What are you running for sag? Only number I found was in the Beta MTB review saying 37% was reccomended.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

~35% is the recommended pretty sure.


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

Anyone had any frame breakage?


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

It's here!!! Waiting for the nerds was worth it


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Beauty!


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

So out of the box no major paint defects or other issues. Bike is coming together nicely. One thing I noticed is that the chain stay protector is separating towards the B area. Anyone have an idea of what type of adhesive to use to keep it attached to the stay?


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Thats a common problem. I tried different adhesive...ended up just using a zip tie.


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## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

hothb said:


> Thats a common problem. I tried different adhesive...ended up just using a zip tie.


Did the same on my Druid and no issues since adding two zip ties.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

What about internal routing? Initial parking lot test I can already here the brake cable slapping the top tube. Thinking about running jagwire foam all the way through


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Ugh...don't get me started. If you find a good solution let me know.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

For the loose internal housing I put three medium length zip ties around without trimming the tails. Basically use the biggest zip ties you can use and still get the heads through the cable ports. Clunky but it works


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

djbutcher13 said:


> What about internal routing? Initial parking lot test I can already here the brake cable slapping the top tube. Thinking about running jagwire foam all the way through


I ran Jagwire foam from the start, seems to work.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I just wanted to share that I went on my first ride today since receiving the 11.6 back for the second time and it was great. I was feeling pretty pessimistic about it and have even re-ordered the DHX2 but they removed a bunch more shims from the stack and it's actually performing the way I expect it to perform. I left it setup they way they shipped it and while it still needs a little knob tweaking, the settings were really close.

I'll try to confirm with them what exactly they did, but if I'm interpreting what's written on the work order correctly, they removed a mountain of shims. 

The first re-tune says: 
CV11.6R512 to CV11.6R510
RV11.6R138 to 706 - 2 / 704 - 9

The second says:
CVR510 minus the 25804 
706 - 2 / 704 - 7

I'm assuming that 704 and 706 are specific shims but it's entirely possible that I'm incorrect.

Anyhow, the point being, don't give up on them. Let them know if it's not working for you.


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## greyshrike (Mar 8, 2020)

Anyone looking for a medium stealth 11/6 frameset? Mine is available.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-forbidden-dreadnought.html



PB review is up finally. Pretty fair I think.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Is the climbing really that ordinary? Others here seem to feel it's better than described on Pinkbike. The reviewer is close to my dimensions so I'm a little concerned upon hearing this. I'll have to find out for myself I suppose.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

hothb said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-forbidden-dreadnought.html
> 
> 
> 
> PB review is up finally. Pretty fair I think.


A good review and I really wish I could test ride a Druid/Dreadnought here in Aus.

Some of the comments about the loose shock bolt and damaging the frame are a bit concerning as one person had to pay for new front triangle.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I read that this morning and found his comments to be interesting. Even now with my 11.6 operating nearly how I expect, I don't think this bike needs a climb lever at all. From my perspective, there's negligible shock movement when climbing seated. It does move more when standing, but not nearly as much as my Hightower, or either Yeti did.

I totally agree with the author about the Dreadnought not punching above it's weight and maybe even being a little undergunned for what it's designed to do. There's so much progression in the linkage that I've found it nearly impossible to make use of the full travel. If anything, it's more like a well-behaved 140mm travel bike because it gets so stiff about halfway into the travel.

Just for fun, I measured all the pertinent dimensions of the back end a few weeks ago and I finally had a chance today to sit down and model the suspension in Solidworks. I measured the rocker and link with my digital calipers but the longer spans with a metal rule so I'd guess the accuracy on the longer spans is within 1mm. I'm getting 153.7mm of axle movement in the model, so it's probably pretty close.

With a slight tweak to the position of the rocker/link pivot (about 2mm) it's possible to get 170mm (actually 168.36mm) of travel out of the back end. It could also raise the BB so the sag point would be the same or slightly higher than it is now. What I don't know yet are the initial leverage rate or the curve as I've only used SolidWorks to model my machining projects and haven't ever tried to output kinematic data from it. Tonight, I'll see what I can learn about plotting the movements so I can generate a curve plot and from there I'll see what else I can learn. Having not worked on a project like this before, there's a lot to learn and it could very well be a dead end but depending on what the start of the school year looks like (my wife is a teacher and my kids are still in school) it's entirely possible that I could machine myself a rough prototype by mid-september.

edit: I need to look at this a lot closer and double check one of my measurements. It looks like this rocker mod would change the leverage ratio to ~2.8 - ~2.3 through the stroke, significantly reducing the progression. The mid stroke part of the curve is also pretty flat too, leading me to believe that it wouldn't be nearly as supportive as it currently is. The link would also add significant slack in the chain at top out and take up more at full bottom out...so that's a rather critical piece to keep track of. There are lots more options within very tight constraints so I'll continue to dork around with it.

edit again: Getting closer. With some subtle changes to the top and bottom leg lengths of the rocker, and an angular adjustment of a few degrees it can get 170mm of travel with a higher initial leverage rate, 37% progression and a curve that very closely tracks the original. It requires the use of the Ziggy link though due to clearance issues in the shock tunnel. Now that the math is pretty close, I'm going to make the model and ask a friend to print one for me to check clearances before I spend a bunch of time machining one.


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

My experience has been the Dreadnought pedals and climbs well enough. It's not breaking records going uphill by any stretch but it will get you there. Grip is also impressive. The rear derailleur cable being chewed up at the exit on the chainstay is definitely an issue. I noticed it after my first ride. I bought and installed the Jank moto foam kit for $15 to alleviate any rocks getting behind the seat tube and damaging the frame. Shock bolt has been fine on my bike but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it. I'm tempted to put an EXT Storia or 11-6 on it next year. Overall I'm still very happy I went with the Dreadnought. As a bonus, I've always liked having a bike not everyone else has. I've had several people stop and chat me up about the bike. It's a great conversation starter.


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## gdmack (Nov 14, 2014)

So my Dreadnought SLX showed up last week and so far I am stoked. I picked up some motofoam for between the fender and the seatube and I'm wondering what the best way to install it is. Just inserting a chunk of foam in there doesn't work as it works its way out as you cycle through the suspension. I'm looking at an old marsh guard and thinking of making a a custom cover that would bolt underneath the fender bolts but I'm wondering if anyone else has come up with a better solution. Cheers!


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

TLD80 said:


> My experience has been the Dreadnought pedals and climbs well enough. It's not breaking records going uphill by any stretch but it will get you there. Grip is also impressive. The rear derailleur cable being chewed up at the exit on the chainstay is definitely an issue. I noticed it after my first ride. I bought and installed the Jank moto foam kit for $15 to alleviate any rocks getting behind the seat tube and damaging the frame. Shock bolt has been fine on my bike but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it. I'm tempted to put an EXT Storia or 11-6 on it next year. Overall I'm still very happy I went with the Dreadnought. As a bonus, I've always liked having a bike not everyone else has. I've had several people stop and chat me up about the bike. It's a great conversation starter.


Can you provide me with the link to motor foam?

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

Here you go.









Jank Moto Foam Kit for Forbidden Druid/Dreadnought


Protect your super rad Forbidden bike from rock damage and mud with this "Moto Foam" kit. Includes bracket and foam. PRO MODEL AVAILABLE AT FANATIK https://www.fanatikbike.com/products/jank-pro-moto-foam-kit-for-forbidden-druid-dreadnought




jankcomponents.com


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Picard said:


> Can you provide me with the link to motor foam?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk











Jank Moto Foam Kit for Forbidden Druid/Dreadnought


Protect your super rad Forbidden bike from rock damage and mud with this "Moto Foam" kit. Includes bracket and foam. PRO MODEL AVAILABLE AT FANATIK https://www.fanatikbike.com/products/jank-pro-moto-foam-kit-for-forbidden-druid-dreadnought




jankcomponents.com


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

JonJones said:


> Is the climbing really that ordinary? Others here seem to feel it's better than described on Pinkbike. The reviewer is close to my dimensions so I'm a little concerned upon hearing this. I'll have to find out for myself I suppose.


Yea he really did not like it...I found the review very odd frankly. Its like he really wanted to say he did not like the bike but could not...I'm just not sure who wants a bike that corers great on flow trails...lol...I know thats not what he said, but it kinda is...


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

gdmack said:


> So my Dreadnought SLX showed up last week and so far I am stoked. I picked up some motofoam for between the fender and the seatube and I'm wondering what the best way to install it is. Just inserting a chunk of foam in there doesn't work as it works its way out as you cycle through the suspension. I'm looking at an old marsh guard and thinking of making a a custom cover that would bolt underneath the fender bolts but I'm wondering if anyone else has come up with a better solution. Cheers!


Try this. It's worked great for me. A little spendy for some foam and 3D printed plastic but it's a one man operation at Jank and I don't mind supporting him. Forget his name but he's a nice guy. Responded to emails and answered questions.








Jank Moto Foam Kit for Forbidden Druid/Dreadnought


Protect your super rad Forbidden bike from rock damage and mud with this "Moto Foam" kit. Includes bracket and foam. PRO MODEL AVAILABLE AT FANATIK https://www.fanatikbike.com/products/jank-pro-moto-foam-kit-for-forbidden-druid-dreadnought




jankcomponents.com


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

gdmack said:


> So my Dreadnought SLX showed up last week and so far I am stoked. I picked up some motofoam for between the fender and the seatube and I'm wondering what the best way to install it is. Just inserting a chunk of foam in there doesn't work as it works its way out as you cycle through the suspension. I'm looking at an old marsh guard and thinking of making a a custom cover that would bolt underneath the fender bolts but I'm wondering if anyone else has come up with a better solution. Cheers!


cutting up a Marsh guard is exactly what I did. Not necessarily elegant, but it's functional. I cut it long enough to go under the upper chain guide and the little fender and used a piece of VHB double stick foam tape on the non-drive side to keep it down. If you don't like the idea of abrading your paint away, put some type of paint guard sticker on the contact area on the back of the seat tube. Motofoam lets a lot of material through that gets trapped and scratches up the paint in that area.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Curious...is anyone interested in following along with the development of a long travel rocker? 

I don't want to gum up this thread, but am 100% interested in making this bike into what I want it to be. I'll say up front that I'm conflicted about sharing too much since I've been boned by people in the bike industry so many times in the past 30 years BUT, I'm generally pretty financially risk averse so while I can engineer and prototype a link, it's not terribly likely that I'd put a ton of my own capital to outsource a production run on something with an unknown return, warranty voiding bike modification and potential lawsuits. On the other hand, I'm also not interested in devoting many hours of my personal time developing and documenting something that someone with better CNC resources can knock up and sell without compensating me in any way.

I got through the basic design of v4 last night and think I've come up with something that keeps a similar progressive curve (5% more progressive) but with a higher leverage rate throughout the entire stroke. I think this would help alleviate the problems that I and others have been having with the shocks moving too slowly and requiring such a light tune. If I'm correct, the new link would be a bit more supple off the top, requiring a slightly heavier spring which would also help it recover better from big compressions. Even with my re-tuned Push, I'm learning that if I land into a chunky section, the bike stays well into its travel and chatters around...I think it's because the leverage rate is so low deep in the travel that the rebound damper still isn't allowing the valve to move quickly enough to recover. It makes me want to build a nitrogen charge station and vacuum bleeder so I don't have to send it back anymore.


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

smudge said:


> Edit again: Getting closer. With some subtle changes to the top and bottom leg lengths of the rocker, and an angular adjustment of a few degrees it can get 170mm of travel with a higher initial leverage rate, 37% progression and a curve that very closely tracks the original. It requires the use of the Ziggy link though due to clearance issues in the shock tunnel. Now that the math is pretty close, I'm going to make the model and ask a friend to print one for me to check clearances before I spend a bunch of time machining one.


This seems like a super cool project! 
You mentioned having to use the ziggy link to make it work, is that with a 27.5" or a 29" wheel?

How are the chain issues looking with your latest revision? I'm also wondering if 37% progression might be a bit much, since you said that you are already having trouble getting deeper into the travel? According to the Pinkbike article the progression with the stock linkage is 32%. Given your previous statements, it would seem like you might want to scale the progression back a bit. Maybe aiming for 28% would make sense?

I have to say that I'm wondering why Forbidden didn't build more travel into it from the get go? It certainly sounds like it's possible given your brief time working on the design... 
Getting it up to 170mm seems like it would be a win win for them: bringing it more in line with the bike's intentions, and making it more marketable against the current crop of super enduro bikes.

I don't own a Dreadnought -yet- but I'm really intrigued to hear how this works out for you. As a final question, what size do you own?


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Might have to get a caution wide load sticker


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Sylvan.Being said:


> This seems like a super cool project!
> You mentioned having to use the ziggy link to make it work, is that with a 27.5" or a 29" wheel?


I modeled it based on a 29" wheel but it raises the BB by 11mm. This gets rather wordy to explain but...if you stick with a 29" wheel, installing the Ziggy raises the BB by 6mm. The additional 5mm is to keep the sagged ride height the same as with the normal link. Theoretically, the rocker would work with a 27.5" wheel but I prefer a higher BB and 29" wheels so this works for me too. FWIW, I modeled it with a 180mm fork A-C.



Sylvan.Being said:


> How are the chain issues looking with your latest revision? I'm also wondering if 37% progression might be a bit much, since you said that you are already having trouble getting deeper into the travel? According to the Pinkbike article the progression with the stock linkage is 32%. Given your previous statements, it would seem like you might want to scale the progression back a bit. Maybe aiming for 28% would make sense?


I haven't taken a very close look at the chain to be honest. I *think" it can be compensated for by rotating the lower chain guide clockwise to take up some slack but I have my doubts that this would work for people who like to remove the chain guide. 37% might be a big much to be sure BUT, there are a lot of constraints with the overall way this bike is laid out. You can't play with eccentric bushings like on other bikes, there are limited shock stroke options that fit this bike at all, there's limited space in the shock tunnel, there's limited space for the swingarm/link knuckle and the main triangle and I don't want to make an all new link. It's a real balancing act to tweak the leverage rate, ride height, travel amount and initial ratio. I could very well be way off base here but my current way of thinking about this is that by bumping up the actual travel to 70mm, it puts this bike into a different performance bracket. The rate change should make the bike more capable than it already is and if I'm riding it faster because I have more traction, I may very well end up using that extra stroke. FWIW, I did finally bottom it last week when overshot a jump and landed flat.



Sylvan.Being said:


> I have to say that I'm wondering why Forbidden didn't build more travel into it from the get go? It certainly sounds like it's possible given your brief time working on the design...
> Getting it up to 170mm seems like it would be a win win for them: bringing it more in line with the bike's intentions, and making it more marketable against the current crop of super enduro bikes.


I wish I had an inside look at how Forbidden operates. My little project could be a huge failure for the challenges I mentioned above...maybe I can't deal with the chain slack created at full topout; maybe the link knuckle contacts the main triangle at full topout; maybe the forces created at full compression are too much for how the bike is built; maybe machining one of these rockers manually is going to drive me insane with all the setups, offsets and bore tolerances required. Since I had no part in how the bike was designed or manufactured, I have no idea what they were up to. It's my opinion that they might be leaving some potential untapped, but I'm also the kind of person who can't leave anything alone and needs to have projects I can constantly work on to keep my brain in constant motion

Maybe Forbidden can forgive my past complaints about their QC, and will want to hire me . I love Cumberland and it would be super fun for my family and I to live up there.



Sylvan.Being said:


> I don't own a Dreadnought -yet- but I'm really intrigued to hear how this works out for you. As a final question, what size do you own?


I have a large


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

the whole axle path and amount of travel is an interesting discussion. my druid feels like more than a 130mm bike, and i expect the dreadnought that i am building to feel more than 154mm. i guess it may feel like less if you are hucking to flat, but i am not sure that is really how most of us ride. where i think the magic comes in to play is when the grade starts getting steeper and the bike/rider path is moving more in the direction of gravity. a traditional axle path is actually going to accelerate the wheel forward (or decelerate the frame as it hangs up), and in this case, in the direction of gravity. as that happens the rider is going to more acutely feel that hang up as his weight is pitched forward in the direction gravity is already pulling him while the frame slows down. conversely, on a high pivot, the rear axle actually decelerates.

my guess is that these high pivots are going to excel in the kind of steep stuff that where braking often means a controlled slide....I am staring at you PNW


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Fascinating concept about a new link to extract more travel. I actually selected the D0 for its leverage ratio as I expect with my weight it'll work well for me. 

As much as I admire your ambition to produce the link, I'd not risk the warranty issues of using it unapproved by Forbidden. 

170mm would be very nice on this platform though!


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> the whole axle path and amount of travel is an interesting discussion. my druid feels like more than a 130mm bike, and i expect the dreadnought that i am building to feel more than 154mm. i guess it may feel like less if you are hucking to flat, but i am not sure that is really how most of us ride. where i think the magic comes in to play is when the grade starts getting steeper and the bike/rider path is moving more in the direction of gravity. a traditional axle path is actually going to accelerate the wheel forward (or decelerate the frame as it hangs up), and in this case, in the direction of gravity. as that happens the rider is going to more acutely feel that hang up as his weight is pitched forward in the direction gravity is already pulling him while the frame slows down. conversely, on a high pivot, the rear axle actually decelerates.
> 
> my guess is that these high pivots are going to excel in the kind of steep stuff that where braking often means a controlled slide....I am staring at you PNW


The Dread is an absolute riot on steep loamers out here, and I love the way it doesn't pitch forward with rear braking, it sort of squats down which is helpful when crawling into steep sections.

I would definitely be interested in a LT link option. Although the new Range has more travel, I'm not crazy about the lower linkage that hangs down, a local rider has already ordered a second bash plate as the first is pretty wrecked. So I still prefer the Forbidden design.

I feel the dreadnought might be held back with its current travel, the geo screams for flat out speed, big air and hits, a level at which having less travel is more acutely felt.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

It's still too early for me to make any solid plans, but I've chatted with a peer who's doing CNC work. If I can get this worked out, it's possible that we can run some small batches. If anyone is interested, feel free to PM me and I'll keep a list in case this pans out.

I have a 24" digital caliper that I'll make some adjustable points for next week and will start taking more accurate measurements of the fixed spots. I'm also going to make some precision axles to make sure I have the exact centers of the current rocker and links. Then I'll tweak my model, work out the rocker geometry again and will machine (manually...ugh) a prototype for me to test and I'll go from there...either tweak it some more or just scrap the project. If I don't like it, or there's trouble, you'll know about it.

One of my concerns is just some of the general tolerance of the frame and swingarm. Only having a sample size of one, and not knowing how the factory that makes these does all the bearing bore operations, what the indexing points are, how much post mold sanding there is etc...it'll be interesting. I pulled the shock last night to measure how far the swingarm could drop from the current topped out position and it's 11mm at the axle before the swingarm contacts the frame. I only need 5mm, but with the Ziggy link installed, there's less than 2mm of clearance between the link knuckle on the swingarm and the frame. 

Anyhow, this will be fun, or a massive pain in the ass, or both. Either way, I love doing this stuff


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Does anyone else feel like the cable/hose ports weren't designed correctly? It seems like the built in channel on the plastic piece expects the hose to come in at a much shallower angle than it possibly could in reality. When I tighten down the rear brake hose one it noticeably kinks the hose. Might try to 3d print something that reflects the actual angle the hose passes through there. Currently just running it without the cover.


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## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

djbutcher13 said:


> Does anyone else feel like the cable/hose ports weren't designed correctly? It seems like the built in channel on the plastic piece expects the hose to come in at a much shallower angle than it possibly could in reality. When I tighten down the rear brake hose one it noticeably kinks the hose. Might try to 3d print something that reflects the actual angle the hose passes through there. Currently just running it without the cover.


I noticed this on the Druid - when I went to AXS, and removed the rear shift cable, it was definitely linked (both cable and housing)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

johnsogr said:


> I noticed this on the Druid - when I went to AXS, and removed the rear shift cable, it was definitely linked (both cable and housing)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, Kinked

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Is anyone else having a difficult time getting the thru axle to engage the threads on the dropout/hanger?

There's not much of a lead-in chamfer on either so I just used a 12mm chucking reamer to ream out the first two threads of the hanger to give the axle something to index into before the threads catch.


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## meeeeep (Apr 22, 2011)

smudge said:


> Is anyone else having a difficult time getting the thru axle to engage the threads on the dropout/hanger?
> 
> There's not much of a lead-in chamfer on either so I just used a 12mm chucking reamer to ream out the first two threads of the hanger to give the axle something to index into before the threads catch.


Druid owner here but I had lots of problems with my rear axle coming loose as do many other Druid owners. Like most mountain bikers I solved it by throwing money at the problem. I bought a Robert axle project axle.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Anyone else have this issue between their swing arm and front triangle. Trying to figure out if this is anything to worry about. It's a pretty deep gouge...


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

CHWK said:


> Anyone else have this issue between their swing arm and front triangle. Trying to figure out if this is anything to worry about. It's a pretty deep gouge...
> 
> View attachment 1945007


Any damage on the swing arm? Looks like you pinched a rock?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

crashidy said:


> Any damage on the swing arm? Looks like you pinched a rock?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Seems that way. It's hard to tell without taking the swing arm off tho. I am probably going to have to investigate that further. I imagine if the frame looks that bad then the inside of the swing arm is as well.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

The apparent crunch zone.
I took mine apart and applied protection tape there before building it up which has to help a little. I then cut out some soft plastic sheet to make a guard to limit stones getting in there. Not pretty but it works.

It's ironic that the complete RideWrap kit doesn't extend to this most vulnerable area.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I work at a shop that sells Santa Cruz, and we're starting to see that sort of damage between the swingarm and the frame on the newer bikes. Just enough of a gap to let a small rock in...


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

quick question for those with a d0 in possession:
can you take a quick peak at your water bottle bosses? are they centered on the down tube? what size frame? TIA


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> quick question for those with a d0 in possession:
> can you take a quick peak at your water bottle bosses? are they centered on the down tube? what size frame? TIA


centered how? Left to right? No. Mine are skewed to the right.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

Mine are just off to the right

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

smudge said:


> centered how? Left to right? No. Mine are skewed to the right.





crashidy said:


> Mine are just off to the right
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


got it. on my XL they are also offset to the right. makes no sense to me. i know plenty of left handed people that pull their bottles from the non drive train side.....


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> got it. on my XL they are also offset to the right. makes no sense to me. i know plenty of left handed people that pull their bottles from the non drive train side.....


I doubt that it was intentional. Someone probably knocked up a drill jig as an afterthought.

edit: The frame is asymmetrical and is beefier on the non-drive side than on the drive side, giving the appearance that the bottle is offset. Maybe it's not perfect, but I think it's largely an illusion.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Mine seem centred. This is on an XL frame fwiw.


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

If anyone is looking to sell a medium Dreadnought in Canada, hit me up!


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Decided I would pick up a SS idler kit from Forbidden, they're now available on the site. I used to check daily but got fed up with the delay. Just happened to look tonight and saw they had stock!

My original idler is still ok but figured it would be a good item to have on standby.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

HubbaMan said:


> Decided I would pick up a SS idler kit from Forbidden, they're now available on the site. I used to check daily but got fed up with the delay. Just happened to look tonight and saw they had stock!
> 
> My original idler is still ok but figured it would be a good item to have on standby.


Thanks for the heads up. With maybe a month left until we're getting near constant rain, it'll be nice to have it on hand. I've been checking with Fanatyk with no luck. Just ordered mine and a stay protector to have on hand when mine gives up.


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## CHGrider (Sep 1, 2021)

eliemath said:


> If anyone is looking to sell a medium Dreadnought in Canada, hit me up!


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## CHGrider (Sep 1, 2021)

Hello, I have a medium dreadnaught I would consider selling. its a black medium with a push shock. really nice parts spec with Shimano XTR/XT drivetrain and we are one carbon rims. let me know if you're interested.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

CHGrider said:


> Hello, I have a medium dreadnaught I would consider selling. its a black medium with a push shock. really nice parts spec with Shimano XTR/XT drivetrain and we are one carbon rims. let me know if you're interested.


how much toed the bike weight?


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

CHGrider said:


> Hello, I have a medium dreadnaught I would consider selling. its a black medium with a push shock. really nice parts spec with Shimano XTR/XT drivetrain and we are one carbon rims. let me know if you're interested.


Thanks for the offer, but I was able to find a brand new one! Cheers.


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

CHGrider said:


> Hello, I have a medium dreadnaught I would consider selling. its a black medium with a push shock. really nice parts spec with Shimano XTR/XT drivetrain and we are one carbon rims. let me know if you're interested.


Just out of curiosity, why do you sell it? Sounds like a really good build. Too much bike? 

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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I finished the rocker link geometry last night and made a rough draft of the solid model. A buddy should be printing one for me this week to test clearances and fitment. If it all goes well, I might be able to machine one in a week or so for testing on the bike. 

It basically moves the leverage curve up about 10%, keeps the shape of the curve but the progression is reduced to 29%...not a huge change, and not intentional. There are only a few variables to play with and subtle changes can make a huge difference in the kinematics. My hope is that it will help with the deep stroke rebound rates since that's where mine seems to struggle the most. Oh...and it increases travel to about a useable 170mm. Paired with a 180mm fork, it could really turn this bike into a beast. I forgot to save jpgs of the model and curve graphs before I booted back into the MacOS, so they'll have to wait until next time I need to fire up Windows.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

smudge said:


> I finished the rocker link geometry last night and made a rough draft of the solid model. A buddy should be printing one for me this week to test clearances and fitment. If it all goes well, I might be able to machine one in a week or so for testing on the bike.
> 
> It basically moves the leverage curve up about 10%, keeps the shape of the curve but the progression is reduced to 29%...not a huge change, and not intentional. There are only a few variables to play with and subtle changes can make a huge difference in the kinematics. My hope is that it will help with the deep stroke rebound rates since that's where mine seems to struggle the most. Oh...and it increases travel to about a useable 170mm. Paired with a 180mm fork, it could really turn this bike into a beast. I forgot to save jpgs of the model and curve graphs before I booted back into the MacOS, so they'll have to wait until next time I need to fire up Windows.


Are you finding the bike rebound too fast in deep rear stroke or too slow during deep compression

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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

crashidy said:


> Are you finding the bike rebound too fast in deep rear stroke or too slow during deep compression
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


The rebound in deep stroke is too slow, I have the dial all the way open and since there's no independent high speed circuit, there's nothing else I can do at this time. If I land into something chunky, the back end seems to be unable to recover and stay active and I get bucked around. I have the same issue in corners to a lesser extent. I'm already planning ahead to my kids being forced into remote learning again this winter and think that this years winter sanity project is going to be making the tooling and learning to do a deep teardown of the PUSH shock so I can play with the shim stacks. I think (but am not certain) that the 11.6 has a high speed stack on top of the low speed. It may just need a few shims removed.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

That's interesting.
I have the push 11.6 and i am constantly amazed at how good it is. I'm on a large frame 400lbs spring. I'll have a look where I'm at as far as rebound but I can't say I've found it too slow by any means. I've had a harder time with the fox 38, getting it to its sweet spot.. But have it in a good place.
Most of what I'm riding is steep rooty chunder and some bike park( think canadian rockies/bc) . I've been very impressed with the bottom out of the push. I find the mid stroke rebound a bit fat at times but over all compared to every shock I've had i love it. 

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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

crashidy said:


> That's interesting.
> I have the push 11.6 and i am constantly amazed at how good it is. I'm on a large frame 400lbs spring. I'll have a look where I'm at as far as rebound but I can't say I've found it too slow by any means. I've had a harder time with the fox 38, getting it to its sweet spot.. But have it in a good place.
> Most of what I'm riding is steep rooty chunder and some bike park( think canadian rockies/bc) . I've been very impressed with the bottom out of the push. I find the mid stroke rebound a bit fat at times but over all compared to every shock I've had i love it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Glad to hear someone is having a good experience with the shock. I've probably read as many complaints as praises at this point. I think they make a good product though and I've had a very good experience with the people there. I expect a 38 and a DHX2 to show up any day now so we'll see how that goes.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

My neighbor got the rocker printed today. I just got it test fitted with the shock to run it through the travel and the clearances look good except for the knuckle on the swingarm where it's VERY close. Hard to say how close because I didn't check it before I mounted the wheel. I suspect this rocker is deforming a little under the weight of the wheel since it only has a 40% fill.

IMG_1843 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

IMG_1844 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

upon setting it on the ground, the BB height is 461, which is exactly where I wanted it, it'll sag down to 299mm. In 29er setup with the stock link, it should sage to about 293. +6mm on the bb height is right where I wanted to be. This is with the ziggy link and is what I'd expect since the Zig adds about 6mm to the bb height with a 29" rear

My model shows a theoretical maximum travel as 176mm. With a Push shock as an example, at full bottom out it actually only gets 63mm of stroke. Actual max travel with a push would be about 172mm

edit: now that I've had a bit more time to dork around with it...

On my bike, chain tension at top out is totally fine. The caveat here is that I was experimenting with the lower idler a couple of weeks ago and found that If I rotate it clockwise and set the upper and lower straight lengths of chain so they're roughly parallel when in the gears I'm typically in while going downhill, the derailleur cage barely moves during compression. Because the idler took up so much chain slack, I was able to set the B-tension on my derailleur as I would on a non high pivot bike and the shifting is much better. For people who aren't running the lower guidler, this rocker may not work.

Shifting into the largest cog and compressing the shock to the bumper, there's still plenty of travel on the derailleur

My 180mm 38 happened to arrive this afternoon and it has a 20mm longer axle to crown than the 170mm 36 that it replaced. The BB height measurement above is with the 180mm 38 which is what I used to do all of my modeling in the software. I did not model the entire frame, nor look at how the HTA would be affected, but a quick check with my digital level on the garage floor (which is definitely a little sloped) say that it's 63°. I wouldn't count on that as being perfectly accurate though it's probably within 1/2 a degree.

The Push coil clears the rocker...just. This is something that will need investigating. Coils with a larger O.D would likely be problematic. I didn't test it with the X2, or even look at the X2, but I think the slider near the shock eye is much smaller than the O.D. of the coil spring. I'll be looking into that and I can probably add another 1mm of clearance for the coil clearance, but it might only help in some cases.

If you all are interested and have questions, please let me know and I'll do my best to answer them.


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## meeeeep (Apr 22, 2011)

This is an awesome project [mention]smudge [/mention] . I can't wait to hear about your final product!


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I had to boot back into Windows to safe the file in a different format to get a quote so I saved the new curve while I was there.


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

Here she is in all her glory, at last! What an amazing bike. First break in rides already show that this mullet setup is gonna be awesome... ????‍♂


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

@smudge, would the increased leverage ratio have any adverse effects on climbing / pedalling performance, especially for heavier riders?


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

JonJones said:


> @smudge, would the increased leverage ratio have any adverse effects on climbing / pedalling performance, especially for heavier riders?


that's a good question and I can't say for sure but I don't think so. I suppose if you're really bouncy when you pedal, it might be a little bit bouncier. I feel like this is a very quiet climber, at least compared to every other full suspension bike I've owned. I've never once reached down to flip to the climb setting on the shock. It's only a 10% increase in leverage and nothing is different about the way the rear wheel is driven. Pedal kickback shouldn't change and all this link is doing is adding a little bit more arc below the current top out point and a little bit more towards the end stroke. The extra travel and leverage curve go hand in hand...you change the length of the upper rocker lobe and both of those things change.

I sent out the file this evening to get a quote for CNC (I really wish I never sold my Tree 425) so we'll see what comes back. I have a few options but everyone is pretty busy, so doing a one-off is low on the list. I can do this manually, and will if I have to, but am not looking forward to it. Anyhow, once I have one that's working, I'll be 100% up front about how I feel about it. As excited as I am about working on this, most of the enjoyment comes from learning new things and designing something that should work. I'm usually not one to drink my own KoolAid so if it stinks, you'll all find out here and it'll be forgotten about. If it rides great but introduces some other problem, you'll also find out here and it'll be forgotten about.

Some time over the next week, I'll add the idler to my Linkage model and will see if I can graph some comparisons to help answer that question better.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I was told last night that the rockers for the Druid and the Dreadnought are the same. If that's the case, the Cascade link should do something interesting. I ordered one last night and will measure it and model it. If it isn't going to screw anything up, I'll ride it and report back.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

How does the rocker link help the dreadnought? 

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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Picard said:


> How does the rocker link help the dreadnought?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


The Cascade Link made for the Druid? I don't know yet, but I thought it might be interesting to find out and I recently sold off a bunch of guitar gear so I don't mind spending a little to experiment.

I suspect that Cascade has kept the lower lobe geometry the same, but shortened the upper lobe by a little bit. Since two legs of the triangle (the shock eye length, and the trunion mount to the rocker) pivot are fixed (at topout), it's the upper lobe length that makes the biggest impact if changed and it can only be shortened by about 2mm before there are clearance problems with the shock. This would increase the initial leverage ratio, increase the progression, and increase the total travel. Travel is likely topped out in the neighborhood of 170mm just because of the limitations of shock clearance. If they didn't change the lower lobe, the bb height when it's topped out would be the same as stock and it might feel like it sits too far into the travel at sag for some people. If my guess is correct, it would sag roughly 5mm more into the travel which would equate to about 3mm at the bb.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

smudge said:


> I was told last night that the rockers for the Druid and the Dreadnought are the same. If that's the case, the Cascade link should do something interesting. I ordered one last night and will measure it and model it. If it isn't going to screw anything up, I'll ride it and report back.


I have an XL Druid and an XL Dread in my hands. I have measured the rear triangle, pivot to pivot to axle. They are dimensionally identical (from an economies of scale standpoint its brilliant, and making the CS variations on the front triangles, which all have to be different anyhow, allows Forbidden to make exactly one rear triangle to fit across 4 sizes of 2 models). Anywho, if the rear triangles are the same, the rockers are the same, and they both use the same ziggy, then the only variable left between the two is shock eye to eye and stroke lengths, and subtle variations in shock orientation.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Well...I ordered the wrong link. I knew Cascade transitioned to a new link with more clearance, but I ordered it from my phone, late at night and didn't see that they're selling the two versions. Unfortunately, I didn't realize it until I installed it but I did take the time to measure the BB height with the link on. It raised my BB by about 6mm, which is great actually. With the link and the Ziggy installed while using a 29" rear wheel, it balances out the additional length of a 180mm 38. 

With a Fox SLS spring on my 11.6, there is practically no clearance between the spring and the link. Hopefully, that's what's different with the B1 link.

I'll see about sending this one back, but I'm ordering the proper one today.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

How frustrating. Fingers crossed this updated version does what you need it to.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

JonJones said:


> How frustrating. Fingers crossed this updated version does what you need it to.


It was my fault...which makes it frustrating. That and I was hoping to get a few rides on it before I do 18 hours of driving on Friday/Saturday. Sunday is booked for family time so it'll be a little bit before I can test it out.

Just plugged in the Cascade link geometry into the software. [edited to remove bad data]

I'm just competent enough in Solidworks to design things, but I'm far from a power user. I'm a bit concerned that some information is getting lost when I'm pulling coordinates from my model and putting them into the Linkage software. I'm going to spend a little time learning more about motion studies in SolidWorks and see if I can't get it to create its own graphs so I don't have to enter x,y coordinates in this other system.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

That's what I mean. I've bought whilst tired / not concentrating and it's gone wrong before. 

165mm travel at 65mm stroke is 2.53 leverage ratio as I see it which would be comparable to stock. At 2.9 ish I'd struggle to see how that doesn't mean trouble at my weight. 

Also I'm running the X2 shock and the valve is aligned in a way that 65mm stroke would most likely foul the shock mount at the frame. 

Ultimate proof is in the riding as always....


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

I just saw a purple/blue fade version yesterday at my local bike park in seattle. The thing was gorgeous! Very jealous of all you that have one of these. Amazing looking machines!


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

JonJones said:


> That's what I mean. I've bought whilst tired / not concentrating and it's gone wrong before.
> 
> 165mm travel at 65mm stroke is 2.53 leverage ratio as I see it which would be comparable to stock. At 2.9 ish I'd struggle to see how that doesn't mean trouble at my weight.
> 
> ...


That's the average leverage ratio. The initial ratio is 2.9. Actually, I'm getting data directly from the modeled assembly now rather than having to transpose it to the Linkage program, which was making things weird.

The Cascade link initial leverage ratio is 2.94 and it shifts to 1.85 at end stroke. That makes it 37% progressive, up from 32% with the stock rocker. I'm very confident in this data. The shape of the curve is very similar to stock, just moved up about 10%. I don't know what you weigh, but right now I'm about 213 and I don't have any problems with the idea of riding this. I've sent the misordered one back and they're sending me a new one, but I still won't get to actually test it until sometime next week. I'll update the thread when I do.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks, you're right and I only look at the average leverage ratio for an indication of how it might feel. The detail is in the entire curve as you're right to consider. The comparatively low leverage ratio is part of what drew me to the bike..

Interestingly I got some feedback from Cascade Components stating they've some riders using the Druid link on the Dreadnought and get on well with it but they have yet to calculate the progression or travel numbers.

They state climbing will take a minor hit but nothing excessive. Air pressure will need to be increased about 10% and that clearances on coils might be tight / an issue.

It's an interesting situation and I'd love to know more. At the moment I like how mine climbs and would rather keep that aspect, as tempting as the increased progression and travel is. 

Looking forward to hearing more from your experiment!


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

can we get a review with Druid cascade link on the drednought?


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Picard said:


> can we get a review with Druid cascade link on the drednought?


I'd love to hear about it too.

I'll have some time on it Mon or Tues next week. We're supposed to get some much needed rain over the weekend so the trails should be incredible by then.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I've got a 425# PUSH/HyperCoil spring for sale if anyone is looking for one. $70 + shipping. Used for less than 10 miles and aside from slight scuffing on the ends of the coil, looks untouched.


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

smudge said:


> I'd love to hear about it too.
> 
> I'll have some time on it Mon or Tues next week. We're supposed to get some much needed rain over the weekend so the trails should be incredible by then.


Definitely share your thoughts, buddy of mine has the revised cascade druid link that he has yet to install. I can't this weekend but may install it for next weekend to see what I think. Curious what spring rate I'll like for it currently running 375 (for my 180-185lb geared), also have a 400, depending on how it feels with the link I may be interested in that 425.


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## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Hey everyone - I have a briefly used, Orange, Cascade Link off my Druid (most recent B1 model) for sale - shoot me a message if you’re interested!


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I popped the Cascade rocker on today and threw on a 475lb spring to play with it. The 525 SLS spring I have is too long for the preload collar to have full thread engagement and my 500 is on loan. 

Unsurprisingly, there's a massive difference in how soft the suspension feels. I did a few hot laps around the neighborhood, used driveways as kickers and did some sprints. Far from a comprehensive test, but it gave me an idea of how it's going to ride. Landings feel bottomless, even with a spring that's a little too soft. I didn't notice any more pedal bob than it already had, which isn't much. What I did notice is that when I sprint, my tire hits the lower chain guide, which it definitely did not do before the rocker swap. I'm going to remove it to take a closer look and measure a few more things.

I've decided to take my bike with me on my trip tomorrow and if the weather isn't too gnarly on Saturday, I'll try to make time to stop somewhere on the way back. Maybe try to hook up with someone in Ashland


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## habaden (Sep 16, 2019)

Hows the dreadnought feel on machine-groomed jump lines in the bike park? Does it feel unwieldy in the air?


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

habaden said:


> Hows the dreadnought feel on machine-groomed jump lines in the bike park? Does it feel unwieldy in the air?


It's advertised as being a race machine and park bike. It feels perfect in the bike park. I've put about 18 days at Whistler on mine both in 29 and Mullet set up and either way it's a riot.


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## habaden (Sep 16, 2019)

CHWK said:


> It's advertised as being a race machine and park bike. It feels perfect in the bike park. I've put about 18 days at Whistler on mine both in 29 and Mullet set up and either way it's a riot.


Sounds exactly what I'm looking for, wish I could demo this and the Range to get some ride comparisions


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Was able to get three break in rides here in New England before I had to pack it up to ship out to a "work" trip I had in AZ. Both the bike and the trails were amazing. Don't know how you guys do it in the heat. I bought that cage while I was out there just to have a separate bottle to spray myself with.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I got smoked out of riding on my trip down to CA. Basically everything south of Eugene, OR was smokey all the way down to near Tahoe. So I did 18 hrs of driving in a day and ended up some some wicked ulnar nerve compression in my right wrist. Note to self for my next family road trip...figure this out.

Anyway...Finally got a ride today with the Cascade rocker and overall I'd say it's pretty great. I definitely had to bump up the spring rate, as expected. With the stock rocker, I use a 450lb spring, I bumped it up to a 500lb spring and while it felt really good on the trail, I was blowing through the majority of the travel on jump faces. I swapped to a 550lb spring for a bit and it felt good, but I need more time on it. 

IMO, there are two main advantages of this rocker. The first is just the initial movement. It's a lot more supple from top out through the sag range. This does lead to a little bit more movement while pedaling in and out of the saddle, but on balance, I think it's a good thing as there's a lot more traction in practically every situation. The other advantage is for those of us who are having trouble getting a shock tune without having the rebound wide open and still having troubles with the back end recovering. I had to increase the spring rate so much, that my rebound knob is actually useful for the first time. 

Hoping to get out again tomorrow or Saturday to get some experience on the 550lb spring. I think 525 would be ideal for me, but the one I have is too long for the 11.6 and Fox doesn't make the SLS in a 525lb rate in the length I need. I'll have to check out the Push offerings too


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Good to hear you're liking it and aware of some of the trade offs. 

Did you feel the benefit of the extra travel? 

And no more interference with the lower guide on sprints? 

This could be an interesting mod to adopt. 

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint on it.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

JonJones said:


> Good to hear you're liking it and aware of some of the trade offs.
> 
> Did you feel the benefit of the extra travel?
> 
> ...


I definitely felt like the rear end was sitting deeper into its travel, but I can't honestly say that I noticed if there was more travel. Today wasn't really a great day for sorting it all out. My wrist is in a lot of pain and I was taking it easy. I gave someone trail advice at the trail head and ended up riding with him the whole time. We weren't a great match but I felt like I led him out to a trail that was potentially over his head and wanted to see to it that he got back to the car OK. Just an easy day out, no sprints but I don't doubt that guide contact is still an issue. We'll see how it goes over the next couple of days with the heavier spring if my wrist can take more aggressive riding.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks, and rest up the wrist, they can take a while to sort themselves out.


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

Smudge, are you running an 11-6 ? If so great , that means no clearance issues. I've got the Druid link on as well.
No negatives, all positive so far but I'm still dialing it in. Only 3 rides so far in BC's Fraser Valley and or the North Shore with the new link. As expected , its much softer off the top and into the mid stroke which is what you'd expect when change from 154 to 170mm travel. I'm running a Fox DHX and probably need the DHX2 for some more tuning ability (I'm fussy, I want all the squish but with a powerful sprinty pedal platform lol) . 
Smudge, did you measure your sag? I've only had to jump up 25lbs in spring weight to achieve 30% sag. I'm surprised you need to jump up so much in spring weights. I'm also going to experiment with changing my DHX's stroke from the 65mm down to 62.5 as this should have me at 160mm rear travel which may be my happy place.


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)




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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)




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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Bradical said:


> Smudge, are you running an 11-6 ? If so great , that means no clearance issues. I've got the Druid link on as well.
> No negatives, all positive so far but I'm still dialing it in. Only 3 rides so far in BC's Fraser Valley and or the North Shore with the new link. As expected , its much softer off the top and into the mid stroke which is what you'd expect when change from 154 to 170mm travel. I'm running a Fox DHX and probably need the DHX2 for some more tuning ability (I'm fussy, I want all the squish but with a powerful sprinty pedal platform lol) .
> Smudge, did you measure your sag? I've only had to jump up 25lbs in spring weight to achieve 30% sag. I'm surprised you need to jump up so much in spring weights. I'm also going to experiment with changing my DHX's stroke from the 65mm down to 62.5 as this should have me at 160mm rear travel which may be my happy place.


I'm running an 11.6 with a Fox SLS spring. The spring does contact the rocker, but just...it's a non-pressure, zero-clearance if that makes sense.

Just FYI, it it matters to you...with both the PUSH and the Fox shocks, the 65mm of stroke they list is just the max stroke of the shaft with no bottom out bumper in place. Since the bumper can't occupy zero volume, the actual max travel on the PUSH is 63mm. I don't know about the DHX specifically, but the DHX2 is about the same...63mm. Since the leverage ratio near end stroke is approximately 2:1, you can subtract 4mm from the total travel.

Also, I modeled the back end, both stock and Cascade rockers and the standard and ziggy links in SolidWorks to create a simple animation to study the kinematics. The full stock setup actually gets closer to 150mm of vertical travel. With the Cascade rocker, the theoretical max is 164.9mm (vertical) but with the shock stroke limits it's actually 161. If you further reduce your stroke by adding the spacer, you're basically back to stock travel. In real riding conditions, it won't make much difference in feel because the end-stroke leverage rate is still pretty low and unless you're under-sprung, we're unlikely to bottom it out very often, if at all.

As for sag, I didn't measure it since with the PUSH shock, there's not a great way to do it. I keep meaning to make a little indicator on the non-drive side pivot cap to do this but I've got too many balls in the air right now to start yet another project.


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

I've put a piece of two-way velcro tape (non-adhesive ) on the shock shaft to assist with measuring , then I remove it. Your right about the bumper....I wont reduce my stroke.


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## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Bradical said:


> View attachment 1949708
> ) on my I've put a piece of two-way velcro tape (non-adhesive ) on the shock shaft to assist with measuring , then I remove it. Your right about the bumper....I wont reduce my stroke.


That is a great idea!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Bradical said:


> I've put a piece of two-way velcro tape (non-adhesive ) on the shock shaft to assist with measuring , then I remove it. Your right about the bumper....I wont reduce my stroke.


So simple, so nice. Thanks. I'll do that today.


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

smudge said:


> So simple, so nice. Thanks. I'll do that today.


Hey Smudge, I know your primarily experimenting for yourself but I've been really appreciating your posts and info on the custom and cascade links. Any more issues with the lower guide contacting tire? Which size tire and frame are you running? Most likely going to try the cascade link out this weekend on my xl (with push 11/6 with a push coil) just trying to know any potential issues to watch for.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

adurant said:


> Hey Smudge, I know your primarily experimenting for yourself but I've been really appreciating your posts and info on the custom and cascade links. Any more issues with the lower guide contacting tire? Which size tire and frame are you running? Most likely going to try the cascade link out this weekend on my xl (with push 11/6 with a push coil) just trying to know any potential issues to watch for.


I was only able to get out on one more ride, this time with a heavier spring. I haven't had any more issues with the tire contacting the guide, BUT...I'm still having a difficult time with my wrist and was riding at ~60%. I feel like any feedback I have from that ride isn't terribly valid since I was just cruising down the hills. As for what to watch for...just keep an eye on spring/spring seat contact with the link. You'll mostly likely hear it every time your rear wheel gets off the ground if the back end is given a chance to top out. Once you reinstall the shock, see if you can slip a strip of paper between the link and the spring seat and/or the last coil of the spring.


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## erdawe (Sep 12, 2017)

smudge said:


> Just FYI, it it matters to you...with both the PUSH and the Fox shocks, the 65mm of stroke they list is just the max stroke of the shaft with no bottom out bumper in place. Since the bumper can't occupy zero volume, the actual max travel on the PUSH is 63mm. I don't know about the DHX specifically, but the DHX2 is about the same...63mm. Since the leverage ratio near end stroke is approximately 2:1, you can subtract 4mm from the total travel.


I realize the theoretical implications described where the bumper on a Push shock limits travel when compressed. However, Push (Darren) have stated in previous online discussion on Push's new 2020+ shocks that they factored in the the bumper at full compression when configuring their shock shaft stroke length to give essentially max manufacturer spec'd travel. This was done by factoring in bumper compression into allowed shock stroke. Now I have not confirmed this statement myself, but you seem like a chap who would eventually get around to checking this themselves.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

erdawe said:


> I realize the theoretical implications described where the bumper on a Push shock limits travel when compressed. However, Push (Darren) have stated in previous online discussion on Push's new 2020+ shocks that they factored in the the bumper at full compression when configuring their shock shaft stroke length to give essentially max manufacturer spec'd travel. This was done by factoring in bumper compression into allowed shock stroke. Now I have not confirmed this statement myself, but you seem like a chap who would eventually get around to checking this themselves.


I was just parroting what Dylan at Push told me. If I were doing suspension work for other people, I'd machine myself a hand dyno, maybe put a few gauges on there to see what's what and geek out on this even further. But since my shop space and time are limited, I'll have to take their word

Just for fun...I had my 9 y/o daughter work with me last night to calculate how many turns of the preload screw would equal 25lb on my 500lb spring. But first she had to determine the tread pitch on the shock body...then got so deep in the weeds playing with my thread gauges that she insisted that I give her more bolts to investigate. She's a cool kid.


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

smudge said:


> I was only able to get out on one more ride, this time with a heavier spring. I haven't had any more issues with the tire contacting the guide, BUT...I'm still having a difficult time with my wrist and was riding at ~60%. I feel like any feedback I have from that ride isn't terribly valid since I was just cruising down the hills. As for what to watch for...just keep an eye on spring/spring seat contact with the link. You'll mostly likely hear it every time your rear wheel gets off the ground if the back end is given a chance to top out. Once you reinstall the shock, see if you can slip a strip of paper between the link and the spring seat and/or the last coil of the spring.


On the wrist subject I was experiencing some pain and started doing a series of wrist stretching exercises and I’m pain free. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

jay_paradox said:


> On the wrist subject I was experiencing some pain and started doing a series of wrist stretching exercises and I’m pain free.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Glad to know you fixed your wrist. If it continued much longer that was the direction I would be headed. I have some really good PT resources when I need them. My particular issue was nerve compression and was brought on by a long drive, the geometry of my arm rest and the way I lean on it when I drive. It's clearing up nicely and just needed some time.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

I got out today and was able to push a little harder than earlier this week and the bike generally feels good with the link. I never felt like the back end was sorted out, and while it's better with the Cascade link, it's still not sorted out. One of the sections on my normal route is a ~1mi long DH down a pretty flowy trail with big holes in the turns. There are a few jumps, the straights aren't very long and my speed is in the high teens for most of it. The turns on this trail are where the new link is noticeably better than stock. I'm not using a ton of travel except for one jump to nowhere that is essentially a 5-7' drop depending on how bad my timing is on any given day. The big difference is how much traction is available in the chunky corners. The Cascade rocker is a huge benefit with these specific conditions

There's another trail that I've been staying off of for the past few months because it got in my head a little bit this summer. It's a little longer but has very long "straight" sections, lots of loose baby heads, it's bench cut and the surface is changing all the time. As it dries out, the embedded rocks pull out and at around 30mph the consequences feel bigger than the endorphin payoff these days. We hit that trail today too and I kept it reigned in...my computer said 25 was the top speed but the back end of the bike still feels like it's packing up and wasn't very hooked up. This isn't the fault of the Cascade link, it's how the bike was before. I opened up the compression circuits a few clicks but didn't have time to ride back for another run before I had to take off to pick up my kids. 

On the first ride or two with the Cascade link, climbing felt a little bouncier but still better than any of the other full suspension bikes I've owned. Now that I've had a few more hours on it, I don't notice it at all. It's still a very quiet back end in terms of climbing. No tire/low guide rub today, but I was just cruising up the climbs since my buddy was with me and we were pretty chatty on the climbs while looking for chanterelles. 

One more thing, though I don't yet understand why, adding preload to my 500lb spring has definitely created contact between the last coil and the rocker UNLESS I rotate the spring so the small open portion of the coil is facing the rocker. It only happens at top out (which is practically every time the wheel is in the air) but it's happening. I put a sharpie line on the top of the spring as a visual reference so I can gauge how much it moves during use. 

I made a tool case for the top tube mounts with some Fidlock bits and an old sunglasses case. It's pretty slick and I'll post a video if I can get it to upload

IMG_1880 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

Since you were riding a trail that makes you nervous and were keeping speeds lower than usual I assume you were braking a fair amount. Do you think the feeling of the shock packing up was due in part to the high anti rise or was it something else?


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

adurant said:


> Since you were riding a trail that makes you nervous and were keeping speeds lower than usual I assume you were braking a fair amount. Do you think the feeling of the shock packing up was due in part to the high anti rise or was it something else?


That's a really good question and while I definitely didn't have that in mind while riding yesterday, I don't _think_ that's what I'm feeling. What I was feeling yesterday was consistent with how I've felt about this bike since I built it up. I'll pay more attention to my braking when I get out on Sunday.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

smudge said:


> I got out today and was able to push a little harder than earlier this week and the bike generally feels good with the link. I never felt like the back end was sorted out, and while it's better with the Cascade link, it's still not sorted out. One of the sections on my normal route is a ~1mi long DH down a pretty flowy trail with big holes in the turns. There are a few jumps, the straights aren't very long and my speed is in the high teens for most of it. The turns on this trail are where the new link is noticeably better than stock. I'm not using a ton of travel except for one jump to nowhere that is essentially a 5-7' drop depending on how bad my timing is on any given day. The big difference is how much traction is available in the chunky corners. The Cascade rocker is a huge benefit with these specific conditions
> 
> There's another trail that I've been staying off of for the past few months because it got in my head a little bit this summer. It's a little longer but has very long "straight" sections, lots of loose baby heads, it's bench cut and the surface is changing all the time. As it dries out, the embedded rocks pull out and at around 30mph the consequences feel bigger than the endorphin payoff these days. We hit that trail today too and I kept it reigned in...my computer said 25 was the top speed but the back end of the bike still feels like it's packing up and wasn't very hooked up. This isn't the fault of the Cascade link, it's how the bike was before. I opened up the compression circuits a few clicks but didn't have time to ride back for another run before I had to take off to pick up my kids.
> 
> ...


FWIW I felt the same way about the Druid that the rear was packing up...with the Cascade I pumped the air pressure (running an X2) significantly and opened the compression all the way and now its money.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

smudge said:


> That's a really good question and while I definitely didn't have that in mind while riding yesterday, I don't _think_ that's what I'm feeling. What I was feeling yesterday was consistent with how I've felt about this bike since I built it up. I'll pay more attention to my braking when I get out on Sunday.


It's interesting the braking is being mentioned. On the steady, steep and rough DH sections I ride on the Shore, in many sections I used to lightly drag the rear and front brakes to maintain what I felt was a comfortable and controllable speed. I started wondering if this was giving me the "packing up" feeling in the back end that a few folks here refer to. So lately I'm making an effort to not drag any rear and am finding the suspension feels much deeper than before.
In general I would love a longer travel link given the geo of the bike. It begs for bigger lines and rough terrain and 154mm gets eaten up awfully quick when the early and midstroke are so well composed.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

What do you mean by shock packing up? 

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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Picard said:


> What do you mean by shock packing up?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


High anti rise causes the suspension to compress under braking, making it sink deeper into the travel then it otherwise would. IMO this trait is a mixed bag, hard braking into a corner and the bike is stable, digs in, and preserves good geometry. However, with any amount of comfort braking and the rear feels harsh. The positive here is the bike gives fairly consistent reinforcement to let go of the brakes till I actually need them.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Is this issue due to the ziggy linkage? 

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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Picard said:


> Is this issue due to the ziggy linkage?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


no, it's due to the high pivot location


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Yea Owen and team say anti-rise gets a bad rap but it does take some getting used to...this is not a bike you want to be dragging the brakes on. Hard on the brakes, then off otherwise that rear end starts to do wonky stuff.

It takes a lot of getting used to IMO...its really not a bike for intermediate riders...it wants you to be a better rider, lol...otherwise it just kinda performs like ****.


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

hothb said:


> Yea Owen and team say anti-rise gets a bad rap but it does take some getting used to...this is not a bike you want to be dragging the brakes on. Hard on the brakes, then off otherwise that rear end starts to do wonky stuff.
> 
> It takes a lot of getting used to IMO...its really not a bike for intermediate riders...it wants you to be a better rider, lol...otherwise it just kinda performs like ****.


This is an excellent summary. It's taken me a while to get the hang of it, definitely a different way of riding but I knew a HSP bike would bring something very different vs my background on Horst link and DW.

Luckily the wheelbase and geo make for a stable platform at higher speeds so changing my braking habit isn't as terrifying as I thought it might be on our steep terrain, just need to be more targeted in my use.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Took mine out yesterday and consciously made the effort to stay off the rear brake. It really does open up the rear. 

Thanks for the suggestion!


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Glad it helped. You know all the reviews say something like 'i found myself braking later than ever' thats exactly the right 'style' to ride this thing. Now that I think about it...modulation really not needed...we should all be running Saint's for power cause we don't need the modulation right?! (shot's fired!  ) 

Go faster...brake less but harder.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

HubbaMan said:


> Luckily the wheelbase and geo make for a stable platform at higher speeds so changing my braking habit isn't as terrifying as I thought it might be on our steep terrain, just need to be more targeted in my use.


This is on point, the bike does demand a certain riding style to get the most out of it, it took some adjustment. From day one I found it confidence inspiring and fast, after adjusting my riding the bike really is something special. I'm getting more pop and playfull feeling out of it as well, IMO is does have the velcroed to ground feel overall, but not nearly as dead as I've heard some people claim.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

After a season on the Druid and now on the Dread, I would agree that these bikes do best at high speeds. On steep, tight, slow, chunky lines (think old school) - it's not as home as say a horst link where you need to be on the brakes alot (ie. drag a bit). However these types of trails are not as common these days as 'back in the days' so to speak - flow/smooth seems to be the new way for trails. I found it took 1-2 rides to figure it out but I wouldn't say the difference is significant - it's noticeable for sure but not crazy different.

Also, I have found that these bikes land into the rough like nothing else I've ridden. You can literally drop into chunky, rooty spots that look like death and have it feel like a smooth section. I've since attempted creative gaps and pops where I wouldn't have before and continue to be amazed.

I miss the horst link feel but love this design. Makes me really want to try the new Range - might be the best of both worlds for me!


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

Kootenay rider said:


> After a season on the Druid and now on the Dread, I would agree that these bikes do best at high speeds. On steep, tight, slow, chunky lines (think old school) - it's not as home as say a horst link where you need to be on the brakes alot (ie. drag a bit). However these types of trails are not as common these days as 'back in the days' so to speak - flow/smooth seems to be the new way for trails. I found it took 1-2 rides to figure it out but I wouldn't say the difference is significant - it's noticeable for sure but not crazy different.
> 
> Also, I have found that these bikes land into the rough like nothing else I've ridden. You can literally drop into chunky, rooty spots that look like death and have it feel like a smooth section. I've since attempted creative gaps and pops where I wouldn't have before and continue to be amazed.
> 
> I miss the horst link feel but love this design. Makes me really want to try the new Range - might be the best of both worlds for me!



I hear you on missing the horst link...the rear ends of those just feel so damn snappy!


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Kootenay rider said:


> I miss the horst link feel but love this design. Makes me really want to try the new Range - might be the best of both worlds for me!


I am seriously hoping for a redesign of the Sight. Get the Ranges suspension design, something less than 34 lbs, and I'm all in!


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

McShred said:


> I am seriously hoping for a redesign of the Sight. Get the Ranges suspension design, something less than 34 lbs, and I'm all in!


Yes! I'd be onboard as well!


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Is horst link bike more snappy in slow technical terrain?
Has anyone compared dreadnought to transition spire? 

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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Picard said:


> Is horst link bike more snappy in slow technical terrain?
> Has anyone compared dreadnought to transition spire?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


The feel of a bike will come down to the specific kinematics and shock tune, one horst link wont necessarily feel like another one.

IMO snappy in slow technical terrain will be more bike specific than *basic* suspension layout. The details, pivot locations, bike geo, shock tune, are going to make a big difference. The Dread is slack and long, getting much longer as it moves through the travel, these traits are great for speed, steeps, and chunk. But wont make a bike snappy in slow tech.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

If anyone is looking for a cheap, lightly used Ziggy Link send me a DM.


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## han_slomo (Aug 16, 2013)

Dreadnought owners... , I am going to ask the lame sizing question. I am a little over 5'11 or around 180 cm , currently ride a Large Evil Offering. Measuring the reach of my current setup by using the (wall to middle of upper head tube centre) minus (wall to middle BB centre). I get 467mm reach approx, stack is approx 440mm. Pretty happy with the cockpit feel of my current setup. I feel like I fall in between sizes on the dreadnought. Med reach is 462 large is 484. It's hard to get a chance to sit on bikes before purchase these days. Im leaning towards the medium. I am thinking that it will be close to what Im currently on and will keep the chainstay length numbers lower. The chainstay length (and its growth in travel) is the one thing on the large that makes me hesitant in buying this frame. But, I also dont want to end up with something too small. a couple things to note, it will be ridden North Shore/ Squamish/ Whistler Bike park. And Rhys Verner is around the same height and on a med. But He's a pro so theres that. Any input welcome, Large or Medium?


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Only suggestion I can make is to
1. Really go over the numbers on a spreadsheet. Compare everything as you have the Evil set up (and presumably like) with both sizes of Dreadnought.

2. Consider what you can and can't change for fit to dial it in. 
On either side you've a little scope on some aspects but others are set (chainstays and seat tube length)

If you're inbetween then you'll have to make the compromise where you can make it work the most. 

Don't fear the longer rear, it handles so very well. I was concerned at XL with 464mm but it handles like a dream.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

han_slomo said:


> Dreadnought owners... , I am going to ask the lame sizing question. I am a little over 5'11 or around 180 cm , currently ride a Large Evil Offering. Measuring the reach of my current setup by using the (wall to middle of upper head tube centre) minus (wall to middle BB centre). I get 467mm reach approx, stack is approx 440mm. Pretty happy with the cockpit feel of my current setup. I feel like I fall in between sizes on the dreadnought. Med reach is 462 large is 484. It's hard to get a chance to sit on bikes before purchase these days. Im leaning towards the medium. I am thinking that it will be close to what Im currently on and will keep the chainstay length numbers lower. The chainstay length (and its growth in travel) is the one thing on the large that makes me hesitant in buying this frame. But, I also dont want to end up with something too small. a couple things to note, it will be ridden North Shore/ Squamish/ Whistler Bike park. And Rhys Verner is around the same height and on a med. But He's a pro so theres that. Any input welcome, Large or Medium?


5'8" and on a medium. I could have made a small work, but haven't had any remorse on the size. IMO these bikes strengths play into sizing up when your in-between sizes, but only you can decide what you really want.

Not that it means anything but I spent a week in Squamish, both the bike and the trails were a dream. I have one local climb trail that's something like 25 tight switchbacks, it's the only place where I feel the bike is too long...


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## han_slomo (Aug 16, 2013)

JonJones said:


> Only suggestion I can make is to
> 1. Really go over the numbers on a spreadsheet. Compare everything as you have the Evil set up (and presumably like) with both sizes of Dreadnought.
> 
> 2. Consider what you can and can't change for fit to dial it in.
> ...


Got a spread sheet comparing the offering to the dreadnought and 13 other bikes, its embarrasing how detailed it is. I understand I ultimately have to choose and possibly compromise here or there in the end but real world comments and opinions from owners will help IMO. Your comment on the xl being great with 464mm chainstays is SUPER helpful... thanks!


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

han_slomo said:


> Dreadnought owners... , I am going to ask the lame sizing question. I am a little over 5'11 or around 180 cm , currently ride a Large Evil Offering. Measuring the reach of my current setup by using the (wall to middle of upper head tube centre) minus (wall to middle BB centre). I get 467mm reach approx, stack is approx 440mm. Pretty happy with the cockpit feel of my current setup. I feel like I fall in between sizes on the dreadnought. Med reach is 462 large is 484. It's hard to get a chance to sit on bikes before purchase these days. Im leaning towards the medium. I am thinking that it will be close to what Im currently on and will keep the chainstay length numbers lower. The chainstay length (and its growth in travel) is the one thing on the large that makes me hesitant in buying this frame. But, I also dont want to end up with something too small. a couple things to note, it will be ridden North Shore/ Squamish/ Whistler Bike park. And Rhys Verner is around the same height and on a med. But He's a pro so theres that. Any input welcome, Large or Medium?


I'm 5'11" (178cm) and ride a L on the Shore and sea to sky corridor. For my style of riding it fits just fine. Does feel like a big bike but that's what I was looking for. I have no doubt a M would be a bit more nimble but depends what you're after in the new build.

I'm in NV if you ever want to connect and check out the L.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

han_slomo said:


> Dreadnought owners... , I am going to ask the lame sizing question. I am a little over 5'11 or around 180 cm , currently ride a Large Evil Offering. Measuring the reach of my current setup by using the (wall to middle of upper head tube centre) minus (wall to middle BB centre). I get 467mm reach approx, stack is approx 440mm. Pretty happy with the cockpit feel of my current setup. I feel like I fall in between sizes on the dreadnought. Med reach is 462 large is 484. It's hard to get a chance to sit on bikes before purchase these days. Im leaning towards the medium. I am thinking that it will be close to what Im currently on and will keep the chainstay length numbers lower. The chainstay length (and its growth in travel) is the one thing on the large that makes me hesitant in buying this frame. But, I also dont want to end up with something too small. a couple things to note, it will be ridden North Shore/ Squamish/ Whistler Bike park. And Rhys Verner is around the same height and on a med. But He's a pro so theres that. Any input welcome, Large or Medium?


I'm 5'11 and ride a large. No regrets. Such a comfy bike.


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

I am 5'10" (177cm) and ride a M Dread mullet setup, coming from a Large Nomad v4 CC, and it feels just perfect, as nimble as it needs to be.

PS. M Dreadnought, reach 462mm
L Nomad v4, reach 460mm (flip chip high) 

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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

han_slomo said:


> Dreadnought owners... , I am going to ask the lame sizing question. I am a little over 5'11 or around 180 cm , currently ride a Large Evil Offering. Measuring the reach of my current setup by using the (wall to middle of upper head tube centre) minus (wall to middle BB centre). I get 467mm reach approx, stack is approx 440mm. Pretty happy with the cockpit feel of my current setup. I feel like I fall in between sizes on the dreadnought. Med reach is 462 large is 484. It's hard to get a chance to sit on bikes before purchase these days. Im leaning towards the medium. I am thinking that it will be close to what Im currently on and will keep the chainstay length numbers lower. The chainstay length (and its growth in travel) is the one thing on the large that makes me hesitant in buying this frame. But, I also dont want to end up with something too small. a couple things to note, it will be ridden North Shore/ Squamish/ Whistler Bike park. And Rhys Verner is around the same height and on a med. But He's a pro so theres that. Any input welcome, Large or Medium?


I'm about 5'11.5 and always go with large frames for any bike used for climbing. Came from a large Druid to a large Dread, it feels longer but I also ride a large Optic with a similar reach and couldn't imagine riding that in a medium. I still look at top tube length as one of the major factors since most of my riding time is spent climbing. I would think a medium would feel cramped unless it's just a park/shuttle bike (my DH bikes have been medium in the past). Although either way I'm sure you would adjust and have no problems.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Well after three weeks of waiting for my bike to come back from Phoenix, it's..... back. The bike is in a totally different box than what it was shipped in although whichever UPS employee decided to repack clearly needed more than three weeks time to do it right. So far it looks like the damage is mostly limited to the rims, broken derailleur hanger, and helmet. Along with a bunch of little pieces that the UPS employee must have not thought were important when repackaging the equipment like pedals, axles,.... Will have to give the frame a more thorough lookover once it's unpacked. Remember kids, always buy insurance, because UPS doesn't give a [email protected]& about you.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

djbutcher13 said:


> Well after three weeks of waiting for my bike to come back from Phoenix, it's..... back. The bike is in a totally different box than what it was shipped in although whichever UPS employee decided to repack clearly needed more than three weeks time to do it right. So far it looks like the damage is mostly limited to the rims, broken derailleur hanger, and helmet. Along with a bunch of little pieces that the UPS employee must have not thought were important when repackaging the equipment like pedals, axles,.... Will have to give the frame a more thorough lookover once it's unpacked. Remember kids, always buy insurance, because UPS doesn't give a [email protected]& about you.
> View attachment 1952344
> 
> View attachment 1952345
> ...


Dude...


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

djbutcher13 said:


> Well after three weeks of waiting for my bike to come back from Phoenix, it's..... back. The bike is in a totally different box than what it was shipped in although whichever UPS employee decided to repack clearly needed more than three weeks time to do it right. So far it looks like the damage is mostly limited to the rims, broken derailleur hanger, and helmet. Along with a bunch of little pieces that the UPS employee must have not thought were important when repackaging the equipment like pedals, axles,.... Will have to give the frame a more thorough lookover once it's unpacked. Remember kids, always buy insurance, because UPS doesn't give a [email protected]& about you.


Wow! You could make a sweet Ace Ventura special delivery meme with those pics!

Sorry for your loss!


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

WTF. Backstory?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Waaaaa? That is sad 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

djbutcher13 said:


> Well after three weeks of waiting for my bike to come back from Phoenix, it's..... back. [snip]


WTAF. UPS can DIAF


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

djbutcher13 said:


> Well after three weeks of waiting for my bike to come back from Phoenix, it's..... back. The bike is in a totally different box than what it was shipped in although whichever UPS employee decided to repack clearly needed more than three weeks time to do it right. So far it looks like the damage is mostly limited to the rims, broken derailleur hanger, and helmet. Along with a bunch of little pieces that the UPS employee must have not thought were important when repackaging the equipment like pedals, axles,.... Will have to give the frame a more thorough lookover once it's unpacked. Remember kids, always buy insurance, because UPS doesn't give a [email protected]& about you.
> View attachment 1952344
> 
> View attachment 1952345
> ...


Hopefully you had insurance. If you did, just claim the whole bike and be done with it. No way I would trust anything in the box since it looks like they ran over it with a truck or dropped another stack of boxes on it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

djbutcher13 said:


> Well after three weeks of waiting for my bike to come back from Phoenix, it's..... back. The bike is in a totally different box than what it was shipped in although whichever UPS employee decided to repack clearly needed more than three weeks time to do it right. So far it looks like the damage is mostly limited to the rims, broken derailleur hanger, and helmet. Along with a bunch of little pieces that the UPS employee must have not thought were important when repackaging the equipment like pedals, axles,.... Will have to give the frame a more thorough lookover once it's unpacked. Remember kids, always buy insurance, because UPS doesn't give a [email protected]& about you.
> View attachment 1952344
> 
> View attachment 1952345
> ...


Wow, so sorry. 

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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Salespunk said:


> Hopefully you had insurance. If you did, just claim the whole bike and be done with it. No way I would trust anything in the box since it looks like they ran over it with a truck or dropped another stack of boxes on it.


Unfortunately it only has around $600 in insurance on the shipment. That actually should be enough to cover rebuilding the wheels with new rims. If the bike shop finds that the frame is damaged I will have to see if renters insurance will help out. They did when my bike that this replaced was stolen last year.....


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## Raysrider (Oct 18, 2021)

CHWK said:


> If anyone is looking for a cheap, lightly used Ziggy Link send me a DM.
> 
> View attachment 1951619


I’ll take it man! I’m in whistler


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

Not really a Dreadnought comment per se, but since the weather is getting wet and the trails proper sloppy, what do you do to protect the high pivot, from mud, grime etc.
Have thought of carrying a rug and some wet lube, clean drivetrain and re-apply, mid-day.
Too OCD, perhaps? Alternatives? 

On a similar note, can anyone with Outside access, give us the gist for this wet gear article?








Beta Editors' Choice: Fox Ranger 3L Water Pants and Flexair Neoshell Jacket


Fox's truly high-level waterproof mountain bike apparel has changed the way I look at the weather forecast. Or rather, don't look at it.




www.betamtb.com





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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

tp806 said:


> Not really a Dreadnought comment per se, but since the weather is getting wet and the trails proper sloppy, what do you do to protect the high pivot, from mud, grime etc.
> Have thought of carrying a rug and some wet lube, clean drivetrain and re-apply, mid-ride.
> Too OCD, perhaps? Alternatives?
> 
> ...


What I do to protect it is sit inside and comment on Pinkbike articles.


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## Raysrider (Oct 18, 2021)

tp806 said:


> Not really a Dreadnought comment per se, but since the weather is getting wet and the trails proper sloppy, what do you do to protect the high pivot, from mud, grime etc.
> Have thought of carrying a rug and some wet lube, clean drivetrain and re-apply, mid-day.
> Too OCD, perhaps? Alternatives?
> 
> ...


Well I’d start with the Jank moto foam! I have it and it’s amazing.


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

tp806 said:


> Not really a Dreadnought comment per se, but since the weather is getting wet and the trails proper sloppy, what do you do to protect the high pivot, from mud, grime etc.
> Have thought of carrying a rug and some wet lube, clean drivetrain and re-apply, mid-day.
> Too OCD, perhaps? Alternatives?
> 
> ...


*Beta Editors’ Choice: Fox Ranger 3L Water Pants and Flexair Neoshell Jacket*
*Fox's truly high-level waterproof mountain bike apparel has changed the way I look at the weather forecast. Or rather, don't look at it.*
*OCTOBER 21, 2021**RYAN PALMER*







I don’t mess around when it comes to waterproof gear. But mountain biking’s bro-iest apparel brands definitely do. What brands like Fox, Troy Lee, or 100% have called rain gear over the years has been laughable at best. That’s why when I’m trying to stay warm, dry and comfortable during the long, wet winters in the Pacific Northwest, I turn to brands like Patagonia, 7Mesh, and Kitsbow. Not because I’m bougy (I mean, I am) but because those brands use high-end fabrics and make products to last—and have the warranty to back them. Fox, Troy Lee and 100% make cheap branded garbage bags that last two rides.
Or at least that _was_ the case. Last year, Fox stepped things up several notches and released some rain gear that showed serious promise. Actually the same can be said for much of the latest Fox apparel line, not just the water-blocky stuff. But as I was perusing Fox’s catalog last fall, with the wet season rapidly approaching, the Flexair Neoshell Jacket and Ranger 3L Water Pants were what stood out to me. So despite my quite obvious bias, I clicked the order button.
Fox is already great at tailoring apparel to be comfortable and functional while riding, so I was intrigued to see a brand like Fox commit to putting that knowledge to work on some truly high-end technical apparel. And before it sounds like I’m doing a lot of ****-talking on Fox, I’d like to clarify that it’s probably mostly our own fault that many of these brands don’t do a lot with nice technical fabrics. A large portion of mountain bikers are total dirtbags when it comes to apparel. Other outdoorsy types will drop $300 on a rain jacket without hesitating. They won’t step foot in the forest without their Gore-Tex boots on. They know the importance of being protected and prepared out there. Us? It’s almost like we’re actively trying to be _less_ prepared when we ride. Cotton T-shirts have become so popular to ride in that bike brands are now selling them as ‘jerseys.’ Skate shoes have all but replaced technical footwear. Fewer riders carry any spares, or tools, or even enough water. As our bikes become better at taking us deeper into the wilderness, so many riders are becoming less prepared for what they’ll encounter out there.
It’s no wonder a brand like Fox hasn’t messed around with nice wet-weather gear very much. There’s no getting around the fact that quality waterproof stuff is pricey, and we’d rather have matching anodized parts than stay warm and dry. I for one, really hope enough people buy this stuff for Fox to continue producing it, because a brand like Fox has more insight into a mountain biker’s needs than Patagonia does. Both of these garments prove it. It might be shocking to see a $400 price tag on a Fox jacket, or $175 on a pair of riding pants, but both these pieces are exceptional.
*Fox Ranger 3L Water Pant – $175*








I’ve never really loved riding in pants, even in the rain, but the Ranger 3L Water Pants have completely won me over. Up until I got them last year, my method for cold, wet days has been wool knickers, tall merino socks and waterproof shorts. Sure, sometimes a new pair of waterproof pants will come out and tempt me to give them a go, but they always just wind up in the donate pile. I don’t like the way they tug on my knees when I’m pedaling, they’re never flexible enough, and they always seem to have the wrong fit. I can never just throw them on and go for a ride without thinking about and futzing with them the whole time.
But the Ranger 3L Water Pants are different. The waterproof/breathable material that Fox uses doesn’t have a name brand attached to it like the Polartec Neoshell fabric used on the Flexair jacket, but whatever the three-layer material is, it works. Rather than being a rigid, crispy rain shell, the fabric Fox chose is soft to the touch, quieter than a typical waterproof shell, and has just the right amount of stretch. Like most soft shells, the material is also a heavier weight than a simple shell, so the fabric hangs, flows, and moves with less bunching and wrinkling.








It isn’t just the fabric, though. Fox nailed the fit. This pant comes in seven sizes, from 28 to 40, has a sporty but comfortable fit that can accommodate knee pads underneath, and has a cycling-specific taper at the bottom with an elastic cuff that fits perfectly over my Shimano waterproof shoes. Fox did a great job of tailoring the knees and butt so that the material is sort of in its neutral, resting position when you’re sitting on the bike, knees bent. It’s hard to explain just how important this is. I’m certain that the tailoring is one of the biggest factors in the Ranger Water Pant’s ability to pedal comfortably without the material constantly tugging back and forth over the knee every pedal stroke.
Between the articulated leg and the fabric’s ability to stretch, these pants feel more comfortable than most of the _non-waterproof _pants I’ve tried—but of course, they’re totally waterproof and seam-taped. They kept me clean, dry and warm on countless sloppy rides last season and several so far this fall. And they stay in place hours into a ride, even when they’re weighed down mud and water, thanks to the moto-style ratchet closure. This is by far my favorite type of closure system. It provides secure closure and waist adjustment all with one super quick and simple ratchet, and the design gets rid of the need for a zippered fly as well. It’s perfect.








The pockets use a sealed zipper that’s course enough to prevent mud and grime from clogging it. And while the sealed zipper does do a great job of preventing moisture from getting to your skin through the pocket, you won’t be able to keep a phone dry in there. The pocket liner is mesh, which is definitely more comfortable than if the whole pocket was lined with waterproof fabric, but the sweat coming off your body can definitely create enough moisture to compromise non-waterproof electronics. That isn’t to say that the pants aren’t breathable. They do an impressive job of wicking moisture from the body given how well they keep water out, but if you’re sweating hard or you misjudge the weather like I did one day this fall, they’ll get a bit rainforest-like inside.








They’re by far the best performing waterproof pants I’ve ever ridden in, though, and they’ve made me a true pants convert. I’m also pleased to report that they are holding up incredibly well for how much I’ve worn and washed them. Heading into season two, they still look practically new. I suspect I’ll have to Nikwax them at some point this season, but that’s typical for any waterproof garment.
One of the biggest annoyances about riding in the wet is the cleanup process. With my old method, I’d roll home with muddy socks, knickers, shorts, and shins, all of which required an outdoor rinse with the hose before heading inside. These pants cover all that stuff up, so I don’t have to stand outside hosing myself off in rain anymore. And if I’ve driven to the ride, I don’t have to worry about getting the car muddy. Pants come off, and I’m clean underneath. That in itself is pretty huge.
Pants, huh? What a time to be alive.

*Fox Flexair Neoshell Jacket – $400*








This is a technical rain jacket that can confidently stand with the likes of Patagonia and Arc’Teryx. It uses Polartec’s most breathable waterproof material, called Neoshell, it’s totally seam-taped throughout, has sealed zippers with little garages for the zipper pulls, pit zips, an articulating and adjustable hood, smart venting, and every other bell and whistle you’d find on a top-level rain jacket. And, it’s made to be ridden in.








The material choice itself is ideally suited for a high-intensity activity like riding, because of how breathable it is. Neoshell is also a soft-shell fabric, so it’s quite a bit cozier and not as crunchy and noisy while you’re moving around in it as typical rain shells are. The one bummer about the soft-shell material, though, is that once the DWR treatment starts to wear off, it holds more water than, say, Gore-Tex Pro does. So, it tends to gain more weight during a long wet ride than hard-shells do.








It’s also a bit heavier when dry, and less packable as well. I have a 7Mesh hard-shell that’s made with Gore-Tex Pro, and I absolutely love it. It’s my favorite all-purpose rain jacket, the best in a total deluge, and the one I’ll grab if the weather is going to change and I’ll have to stow it. But for some reason I reach for the Fox Flexair a lot more often.
I love how soft and comfy the material feels, and the way it stretches and articulates with me as I move makes it feel more natural and overall less noticeable. Almost every rain jacket out there constantly makes itself known—it’s either crunching, or you can’t see with the hood up, or it’s too hot, or the sleeves are tugging at the shoulders or elbows.








Not the Flexair Neoshell. Between the material itself, the perforated neck area and back venting, and the long pit zips, there’s plenty of heat management for high-intensity workouts. And, the fit is dialed, too. The torso has the perfect amount of tailored fit and roominess—definitely not a slim-fit, like too many cycling jackets. The sleeves are the same: roomy, but not baggy. And, they’re nice and long so that the cuffs fall at the wrist when your hands are on the bars. The same fit carries over to the length, where it’s nice and long, but not snowboard jacket-baggy, with a slightly dropped tail for coverage when crouched over on the bike.








I think what I love most about this jacket, especially being that it’s quite expensive, is that the fit is neutral enough that it can be worn everywhere. I use it on the dirt bike with armor underneath, and skiing with warm under layers. I wear it hiking, and around town, and while chopping wood in the rain. Because of the way it’s designed to fit, it’s not _just _a riding jacket. But the helmet-compatible, fully adjustable articulating hood, course, grime-resistant main zipper, long sleeves, dropped tail, and extra attention to ventilation all make it the perfect riding companion.








When it’s stormy out and I leave the house wearing the Flexair Neoshell Jacket and Ranger Water Pants, I feel invincible. I absolutely love sliding around on my bike in the mud, but it’s not always easy to motivate to head out in it. With this stuff at the ready, knowing I’ll be warm and dry, there’s a lot less hesitation.


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## meeeeep (Apr 22, 2011)

I wear two different neoshell jackets for road cycling and mtbing. It's one of the most breathable waterproof fabric out there. I've also got a North face jacket made out of some fabric called futurelight which ranks right up there with neoshell for breathability. 

Stay away from paclite.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Got a nice package in the mail from Fresh Paints of Whistler. The post season rebuild commences. My Dreadnought saw about 35 days in the bike park + various other rides this summer. The paint was quite worse for wear. Looking forward to getting this built up.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

DUDE 

What did they charge for that bit of artistry? My whip could use a fresh coat...



CHWK said:


> Got a nice package in the mail from Fresh Paints of Whistler. The post season rebuild commences. My Dreadnought saw about 35 days in the bike park + various other rides this summer. The paint was quite worse for wear. Looking forward to getting this built up.
> 
> View attachment 1955003


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## hothb (May 20, 2015)

CHWK said:


> Got a nice package in the mail from Fresh Paints of Whistler. The post season rebuild commences. My Dreadnought saw about 35 days in the bike park + various other rides this summer. The paint was quite worse for wear. Looking forward to getting this built up.
> 
> View attachment 1955003


Dylan and the crew there do such a good job. Looks sick.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Here we are lads. All built back.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

How did you paint it white? 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Picard said:


> How did you paint it white?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Sent it to Fresh Paints in Whistler.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

How much does it cost to paint it? 

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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Picard said:


> How much does it cost to paint it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


That's not something I can answer. You'd have to talk to them depending on what you want to do. It's not cheap tho I can tell you that. But if you want something done right...


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

CHWK said:


> Here we are lads. All built back.
> 
> View attachment 1955253
> View attachment 1955254
> ...


Sure looks sweet, congrats!!

Had a few buds text me pics of your DN from the shop they were visiting out there this morning, funny to see it here as well. Wicked fun bike for our terrain out here!


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

Just received mine! Took it out for the first time yesterday, this thing shreds the steep sections. Very psyched. Unfortunately I might only be able to get out 2-3 times before the end of the season, and that's pushing it!


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

How did the bike perform on chunky rocks? 

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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

Kootenay rider said:


> I'm about 5'11.5 and always go with large frames for any bike used for climbing. Came from a large Druid to a large Dread, it feels longer but I also ride a large Optic with a similar reach and couldn't imagine riding that in a medium. I still look at top tube length as one of the major factors since most of my riding time is spent climbing. I would think a medium would feel cramped unless it's just a park/shuttle bike (my DH bikes have been medium in the past). Although either way I'm sure you would adjust and have no problems.


I dunno how you can say you always you go with a large - there are huge differences between brands and even models, and especially over time. An Evil offering in a Large from 2018 is pretty darn close to a Druid in an XL. And a Druid XL has reach and eff tt of 485 and 651 respectively, is closest to a L Dreadnought with 484 and 641. Anyway, my point is I think it's worth looking at the numbers and recognizing the variances that may exist. In Forbidden's case, the Dreadnought is almost a full size larger in each size as compared to the Druid.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

powderturns said:


> I dunno how you can say you always you go with a large - there are huge differences between brands and even models, and especially over time. An Evil offering in a Large from 2018 is pretty darn close to a Druid in an XL. And a Druid XL has reach and eff tt of 485 and 651 respectively, is closest to a L Dreadnought with 484 and 641. Anyway, my point is I think it's worth looking at the numbers and recognizing the variances that may exist. In Forbidden's case, the Dreadnought is almost a full size larger in each size as compared to the Druid.


Despite the numbers, to me the Dread has a noticeably steeper seat tube angle than the Druid which when climbing can feel like a shorter bike in the cockpit. To me, the large Druid and large Dread feel similar when climbing in terms of cockpit length but due to the longer travel fork and longer rear the Dread feels longer wheelbase wise. As I mentioned before I spend about 80% of my time with the seat up and climbing therefore I like a longer bike and chose the large. I put top tube length and seat tube angle at the top of my list when shopping for a bike that will spend the majority of time climbing.

As of note my last bike was a large 2019 stumpy lt 29 and my other bike is a large Optic - when climbing with the seat up, they all feel (druid and dread included) very similar length wise or top tube length wise.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

powderturns said:


> I dunno how you can say you always you go with a large - there are huge differences between brands and even models, and especially over time. An Evil offering in a Large from 2018 is pretty darn close to a Druid in an XL. And a Druid XL has reach and eff tt of 485 and 651 respectively, is closest to a L Dreadnought with 484 and 641. Anyway, my point is I think it's worth looking at the numbers and recognizing the variances that may exist. In Forbidden's case, the Dreadnought is almost a full size larger in each size as compared to the Druid.


Can't go wrong if you size off of ETT....it's your most static position. then pick the reach for whatever discipline you are participating in.


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

Picard said:


> How did the bike perform on chunky rocks?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Great. Anything pointed downward the Dreadnought does amazing haha! From my 2 rides with it, I'd say it's less poppy than what I'm used to (150/130mm trail bike), but the difference isn't THAT big. You just have to exaggerate your compression a bit more and you get used to it pretty quickly. Love the bike so far.


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## TLD80 (Oct 25, 2007)

smudge said:


> I got out today and was able to push a little harder than earlier this week and the bike generally feels good with the link. I never felt like the back end was sorted out, and while it's better with the Cascade link, it's still not sorted out. One of the sections on my normal route is a ~1mi long DH down a pretty flowy trail with big holes in the turns. There are a few jumps, the straights aren't very long and my speed is in the high teens for most of it. The turns on this trail are where the new link is noticeably better than stock. I'm not using a ton of travel except for one jump to nowhere that is essentially a 5-7' drop depending on how bad my timing is on any given day. The big difference is how much traction is available in the chunky corners. The Cascade rocker is a huge benefit with these specific conditions
> 
> There's another trail that I've been staying off of for the past few months because it got in my head a little bit this summer. It's a little longer but has very long "straight" sections, lots of loose baby heads, it's bench cut and the surface is changing all the time. As it dries out, the embedded rocks pull out and at around 30mph the consequences feel bigger than the endorphin payoff these days. We hit that trail today too and I kept it reigned in...my computer said 25 was the top speed but the back end of the bike still feels like it's packing up and wasn't very hooked up. This isn't the fault of the Cascade link, it's how the bike was before. I opened up the compression circuits a few clicks but didn't have time to ride back for another run before I had to take off to pick up my kids.
> 
> ...


Could you upload or send me the video of how you made this? I'm looking to do the same thing. Amazes me how there isn't anything similar in the market already. Thanks


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## Muckymuck (Nov 11, 2021)

I have a large dreadnought frame due next week, should have it build up in a few weeks. I am 184 and about 90kg in gear. Any advice on suspension set up And build kit would be greatly appreciated.


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

Dreadnought owners: 
Anyone having problems with their 12th gear (smallest cog) skipping ? When there is too much pressure applied on the pedals the chain skips. So, for now, I can't use that last gear. Both bike shops I had the bike looked at said it must be the way the bike is designed that causes the problem. They couldn't find anything else. They said that there are only 4 cogs touching the chain in that last gear, so that must be the problem. Everything on the bike is brand new.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Dreadnought owners with the custom RideWrap fitted: 

Can you please check the drainage holes under the rear triangle by the drop outs to let me know if the holes align with the cut outs in the wrap? 

I'm keen to see how everyone else's looks... 
Thanks!


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

JonJones said:


> Dreadnought owners with the custom RideWrap fitted:
> 
> Can you please check the drainage holes under the rear triangle by the drop outs to let me know if the holes align with the cut outs in the wrap?
> 
> ...


My right drainage hole near derailleur hanger aligned. The left drainage hold did not. To fix, I took a pick, heated with a torch and cautiously poked a hole through the rideWrap.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

pnguyen3 said:


> My right drainage hole near derailleur hanger aligned. The left drainage hold did not. To fix, I took a pick, heated with a torch and cautiously poked a hole through the rideWrap.


Thanks. Neither of mine are aligned. It's annoying given I paid to have it wrapped. I've had to make holes in the wrap to allow drainage and I just wondered if buying a replacement skin would solve it. The rest is fine so it'd be an option if the wrap got damaged or started lifting..


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

So, I cracked my rear axel where it meets derailleur hanger mount. You can see the crack and where it continues under the RideWrip. 










I was having slight shifting issues and noticed the crack when attempting to install a new derailleur hanger. I sent in the warranty claim mid October. Forbidden approved a new triangle should arrive by end of November.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

pnguyen3 said:


> So, I cracked my rear axel where it meets derailleur hanger mount. You can see the crack and where it continues under the RideWrip.
> 
> View attachment 1956899
> 
> ...


Glad they got you sorted. Absolutely what we want to hear regarding support.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

eliemath said:


> Dreadnought owners:
> Anyone having problems with their 12th gear (smallest cog) skipping ? When there is too much pressure applied on the pedals the chain skips. So, for now, I can't use that last gear. Both bike shops I had the bike looked at said it must be the way the bike is designed that causes the problem. They couldn't find anything else. They said that there are only 4 cogs touching the chain in that last gear, so that must be the problem. Everything on the bike is brand new.


Issues with the small cog in the rear are usually down to derailleur adjustment. If the B-tension is too far out of whack, chain wrap on the smallest cog suffers. Forbidden made a good video on this: 



. I'd also contact the dealer where you bought the bike for assistance. Failing that, try hitting up Forbidden directly: [email protected] - they'll get you sorted.


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

pinkrobe said:


> Issues with the small cog in the rear are usually down to derailleur adjustment. If the B-tension is too far out of whack, chain wrap on the smallest cog suffers. Forbidden made a good video on this:
> 
> 
> 
> . I'd also contact the dealer where you bought the bike for assistance. Failing that, try hitting up Forbidden directly: [email protected] - they'll get you sorted.


I brought the bike to my local bike shop, which is usually pretty good, and they couldn't find anything wrong. The shop where I bought the bike is 5000km away, so not an option haha. I'm currently checking with Forbidden via email. Not the best way to fix that kind of problem, but they have been trying to help !


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

eliemath said:


> I brought the bike to my local bike shop, which is usually pretty good, and they couldn't find anything wrong. The shop where I bought the bike is 5000km away, so not an option haha. I'm currently checking with Forbidden via email. Not the best way to fix that kind of problem, but they have been trying to help !


Normal bike shops who don't deal with High Pivot Bikes don't know how to set these things up. My good friend who is a great mechanic at a trek/kona/yeti dealer here built my bike up but we were constantly having issues with skipping of gears. Took a call to the dealer I bought the frame through to finally sort it out. The chain needs to have a bit of slack when the bike is static. The chain will tension up when you get on the bike. This makes the shifting feel buttery smooth.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

There are also several great videos on their website that address these shifting issues and show how to set up

Sent from my SM-A526W using Tapatalk


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

CHWK said:


> Normal bike shops who don't deal with High Pivot Bikes don't know how to set these things up. My good friend who is a great mechanic at a trek/kona/yeti dealer here built my bike up but we were constantly having issues with skipping of gears. Took a call to the dealer I bought the frame through to finally sort it out. The chain needs to have a bit of slack when the bike is static. The chain will tension up when you get on the bike. This makes the shifting feel buttery smooth.


Yes that's what I'm figuring out. I think I found the problem. I have 129 links on my chain and Forbidden recommends 132 for a size Medium. I'll try to add 3 links. I'm just not sure why the bike got shipped with the wrong amount of links, seems strange to me. I emailed the shop where I bought it from about the problem, asking them their opinion on it. They didn't even offer to send a new properly sized one, they just agreed it would be good for me to buy a new chain to add links. They shipped me a brand new bike with the wrong chain lol. It's probably my fault for not complaining enough.


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## Muckymuck (Nov 11, 2021)

Just got it, first ride done.
Now I know! 🤯


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Muckymuck said:


> View attachment 1959092
> Just got it, first ride done.
> Now I know! 🤯


 tell us man please for people which are still waiting they frame ^^


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## Muckymuck (Nov 11, 2021)

hugosxm said:


> tell us man please for people which are still waiting they frame ^^


no problem, 
For background.im ’184cm on a size large, I was riding an XL Evil calling before this and a transition patrol before that. But I’ve rode other 29ers like pivot firebird and older an nukeproof mega.
I’ve only had one day on it but was getting strava PB’s on my first run on my local trails. Which is amazing, they weren’t even dry. I haven’t found it cumbersome at all. I was shocked at how easy or familiar it felt. I have no issue bunny hopping or jumping it, But it is super plush across roots and it’s so easy to take lines that I’ve found so difficult previously. The way it lands jumps is amazing too. It’s like there’s no impact so you just keep pinning. 
On the climbs it ‘feels’ draggy in the big cogs but fine in the middle ones . But it definitely does not speed up like the Evil does but that was to be expected . The only issue I’ve had is a few pedal strikes while pedalling through rough stuff. But even old lads like me will learn 😂.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Muckymuck said:


> no problem,
> For background.im ’184cm on a size large, I was riding an XL Evil calling before this and a transition patrol before that. But I’ve rode other 29ers like pivot firebird and older an nukeproof mega.
> I’ve only had one day on it but was getting strava PB’s on my first run on my local trails. Which is amazing, they weren’t even dry. I haven’t found it cumbersome at all. I was shocked at how easy or familiar it felt. I have no issue bunny hopping or jumping it, But it is super plush across roots and it’s so easy to take lines that I’ve found so difficult previously. The way it lands jumps is amazing too. It’s like there’s no impact so you just keep pinning.
> On the climbs it ‘feels’ draggy in the big cogs but fine in the middle ones . But it definitely does not speed up like the Evil does but that was to be expected . The only issue I’ve had is a few pedal strikes while pedalling through rough stuff. But even old lads like me will learn 😂.


Thanks for the review man! Can't wait to hop on mine, I went size M for 1m78, hope it feels like yours ^^


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Hi everyone, if a dreadnought owner can help me please, mine is due for tomorrow, and I have a question. 
I want to know the angle from horizontal of the chain between the upper pulley and the chain ring. In others words please someone open the measurement app on an iPhone, stick the iPhone to the almost vertical part of the chain between the pulley and the ring and tell me the number ^^

This is to clock my oval chain ring...

And a merry Christmas by the way


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

hugosxm said:


> Hi everyone, if a dreadnought owner can help me please, mine is due for tomorrow, and I have a question.
> I want to know the angle from horizontal of the chain between the upper pulley and the chain ring. In others words please someone open the measurement app on an iPhone, stick the iPhone to the almost vertical part of the chain between the pulley and the ring and tell me the number ^^
> 
> This is to clock my oval chain ring...
> ...


Haha, I actually did this yesterday, for the same reason after riding an oval ring in the stock position for half the year. It's about 73 degrees.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

McShred said:


> Haha, I actually did this yesterday, for the same reason after riding an oval ring in the stock position for half the year. It's about 73 degrees.


Thanks man! How many teeth on the chainring?


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

hugosxm said:


> Thanks man! How many teeth on the chainring?


30 tooth. I measured both the wide and narrow part of the oval. Almost 72 and just over 74 degrees. So averaged to about 73. If your on a Shimano crank you'll have the choice between clocking to 68 or 85 degrees.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Frame came by plane on the 23th, rode it yesterday... Oh she goes well... I'll post pictures and review later but this bike is a blast !


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

hugosxm said:


> Frame came by plane on the 23th, rode it yesterday... Oh she goes well... I'll post pictures and review later but this bike is a blast !


Can you give us an update? 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Picard said:


> Can you give us an update?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


I was planning to do it tomorrow so I'll update this post


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

I'll write a new post since i'm not sure editing a post will generate a notification to JonJones 

I have some time to talk a bit about the bike. 

Don't forget that english is not my language sorry !

*Frame quality / build process.*

First of all, the frame was really well packaged, i mean really really well, it took me 20 minutes to fully remove all the foams and **** arround the bike, I don't know if forbidden or fanatik is responsible for this, maybe both, but it was nice seeing my investment really protected ^^. The frames looks beautifull on every angle. The paint job was good to my eyes, but my frame came already wrapped so it is hard to tell about that as the plastic blur everything a bit. The headtube, the downtube, the area arround the crankset, everything looks big and rock solid, my devinci spartan looks like a mikado next to this.... 

I received my frame with the new upgraded mudguard, they call this the "winter" one, it is longer but it have the little area to hold a piece of moto foam to protect your frame ! Don't hesitate to ask your reseller to include this new mudguard, or buy this : Jank Moto Foam Kit for Forbidden Druid/Dreadnought.
And the new guard is "holding" your cable a bit to prevent rubbing on the cable port of the rear swingarm !

I loved the cable ports, on my previous spartan i have some shitty little screw that are a nightmare, on the forbidden, big stainless screws and the piece to seal the holes are really doing a greatjob, generally speaking i found that the cable routing process of this bike was a breeze. I also used jagwire danpening foam tube to quiet the cable in the frame. Brake and derailleur cables go in the top tube, seatpost one goes in the downtube. 

Speaking of downtube, the rock guard is cool but too small, like every bike in the world so i added a allmoutain style protection... Under this guard you have a hole where you can store a tube or something and you have access to the straw that will route the cable to your seatpost.

I have the FOX shock option as i Have mounted a bos syors on this, i was surprised to see that the fox came ball bearing mounted ! I think this is a good thing on that bike as the link really "rotate" over the shock when suspension is active. I have standard mouting hardware on my bos and you can really tell the friction difference between the two. I ordered some bearings...

The seat collard is great but i swapped out this for a hope one, asked forbidden, you can use any regular round collar on this 

The stock idler came with a sealed bearing, so no need to pack it full of grease like the old one you can see on the forbidden youtube channel. I already bought the nsb one so i installed it but the stock idler is perfectly fine.

The integrated E13 chain guide feels really well built, no problem with it so far.

Mouting the chainring : i use a oval one, cinch on raceface, so i clocked it to 66 degree and it felt "normal" on the first ride so i guess this is the way to do it, but make sure to have a "clockable" chainring / crankset combo with this bike if you want oval chainring. And setting the b-tension on the derailleur, make sure to put the crankset in the "less tension" position before turning the screw. For the lenght of the chain i did what forbidden said one their website minus 2 links. 

*First ride climbing*

First ride was on the fox air shock, i wanted to try it out

The first climb felt like : it needs more watt to go uphill but it is hard to say when the bike is new, i mean fresh bearings on crankset and idler, new bearing are always a bit sticky the first miles so... It felt like it was easier to pedal by the end of my first ride. And i guess that the clocking change of the chainring can makes your legs feel a bit tired. I'll have to but more miles on it to say if it is efficient or not. 

But something is true for sure : the front end is glued to the ground, on the devinci i have to move my weight forward to keep the front wheel on the ground and it was pissing me off, plus the bike was bouncing easely on rought terain. The dreadnought is the opposite, it does not want to wheelie everywhere and it remains calm over obstacle. I used climb switch on both bikes ! When climbing with the forbidden, if you try a wheeling, it forces you down, the front wheel is really magnetic to the ground if love this ! And the position feels good, it could be more upright but it is already more upright than the devinci. 

I took a M for my 1,78m as the M was the closest to my L spartan from 2018

Traction is also very good on climb, and it rolls good over stuff

*First ride descent*

First descent i was crazy... The first corner right away felt : this bike is so well balanced, i felt really centered, you don't have to weight the front end or at least you do it without thinking about it. The front wheel grip felt insane. And i felt right at home on this bike ! Maybe because reach is the same ( ~ 2-3 mm ) than my previous bike. I was afraid to find it "heavy" on steering but no! It is stable and nimble for me in M. I don't feel the read end extending in corner, it does nothing to my cornering feeling that is perfect on this bike !

I come from 27.5 so maybe the switch to 29 is altering my feelings but grip was insane ! And the trails was wet that day ! 

Suspension wise you feel the same thing that when you ride a non high pivot bike without the chain, but kickback is really a good thing. It feels supple on small and mid sized impact and glued to the ground even with the approximative shock settings that i tried to achieve. 

On big hit you feel the terrain more than with my devinci but this is not a problem to me. Let me explain, this bike is not a confortable ride to my eyes, but i love so bad how well it gives you support and grip. The spartan was more like a carpet ride but on this trail there is two part where i need to put a bit of brake pressure because i know that i will bottom out hard, on the dreadnought ? Man i went full gasss, the bike is so good at bottoming out in a nice way, the end stroke is perfect ! I can commit with full speed on by compression and drop the bike is supporting you like nothing else, it is a race machine on this point ! 

And last thing, on steep section you feel like someone is pulling your read wheel on the ground, there is no pitch forward, i love high anti-rise now ^^

*Second ride*


swapped the fox for the bos and the bike felt horrible, i'm investigating on this tomorow so i'll report back and i'll post the full bikecheck on vitalmtb 



*Sorry I have to go but more from me this weekend i promise *


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

I know rear linkage upgrade has been discussed previously in this thread. I'm not sure if it got anywhere. I've been waiting for Cascade to update their webpage for a linkage specific for the Dreadnought. As of this writing, nothing yet. I've stumbled on Pinner that machine a spacer for the EXT, making it compatible with Cascade Druid B1 Link. Their IG post says for Dreadnought. So I inquired










Has anyone ran a Cascade Druid B1 Link on the Dreadnought, or know anyone who has? If so, what's the consensus?


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

I asked to cascade in December and they told me that a link will be released this month


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

And there is the bikecheck :









First dreadnought of France ??


View Vital MTB member hugosxm's mountain bike check "First dreadnought of France ?? ".




www.vitalmtb.com





So after the third ride I can now tell you that this bike still feels like it needs more watt but is so good at rolling over stuff that I managed a PR on a climb...
Maybe that heavy feelings is caused by the fact that this is my first 29 AND I switched to Michelin racing line that are 300g heavier per tire...

Concerning the horrible feeling I had with the coil shock, it is getting better with preload at minimum, slowing down the rebound a bit and slowing high speed Comp too, but I still feels that the shock is not moving correctly, I have offset bushing and they have a lot of drag. Will report later to tell you if bearing bushings help... I'm sure it will!

The bike still a bit pitched forward with that shock, I'll check sag again but it is really a pain with that shock tunnel design, might need to try a 350 spring.

Anyway I'm very pleased with that machine!

EDIT : frame stiffness is very good, maybe a bit better than the devinci


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Do you find the devinci to be softer on the trails?



Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Picard said:


> Do you find the devinci to be softer on the trails?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


As previously said, yes the devinci felt more confortable put in received my bearing bushings for the shock and i will try this next weekend, i'll report back when the test is done because i really feel that the shock is dragging a lot with thoses bushings !


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

pnguyen3 said:


> Has anyone ran a Cascade Druid B1 Link on the Dreadnought, or know anyone who has? If so, what's the consensus?


I have and I prefer it to stock. The beginning stroke is softer, eats bumps better and I feel like I'm getting better traction in rough corners. Earlier in the thread I calculated the progressivity and it's definitely more progressive than stock, but I don't have a strong opinion on that either way just yet.


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## Muckymuck (Nov 11, 2021)

hugosxm said:


> View attachment 1964879
> 
> 
> And there is the bikecheck :
> ...





hugosxm said:


> View attachment 1964879
> 
> 
> And there is the bikecheck :
> ...



is that the new bos 39 fork? How is it? Their old stuff was amazing. 
I have stayed with the X2 for now, I find it very plush and supple off the top and has strong ramp up. The middle is fairly active, which is both a good and bad thing depending on what trails 
I’m riding. But there is always loads of grip and stability so I’m happy


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Muckymuck said:


> is that the new bos 39 fork? How is it? Their old stuff was amazing.
> I have stayed with the X2 for now, I find it very plush and supple off the top and has strong ramp up. The middle is fairly active, which is both a good and bad thing depending on what trails
> I’m riding. But there is always loads of grip and stability so I’m happy


Nope, I went with the deville II which is 35mm because better hydraulics, the deville 39 single crown is a "cheap" version of the dhfork, no compression adjustment, no fcv, no hydraulics bottom out...
I found the deville pretty stiff even in 35mm
Also I had the deville v1 on the spartan and loved it, their stuff is always to notch performance!

I love the x2 too as a shock, I'm trying this one for now but not sure between syors and x2 for the shock on this bike

Roller bearing bushings helped the syors a lot as said in my previous comments but still thinking about a 25lb lighter spring...


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## Muckymuck (Nov 11, 2021)

hugosxm said:


> Nope, I went with the deville II which is 35mm because better hydraulics, the deville 39 single crown is a "cheap" version of the dhfork, no compression adjustment, no fcv, no hydraulics bottom out...
> I found the deville pretty stiff even in 35mm
> Also I had the deville v1 on the spartan and loved it, their stuff is always to notch performance!
> 
> ...


Cool, yea I tried a friends Deville v1 years ago. It was amazing, so smooth. It’s strange how they just disappeared, they were so ahead of fox and rock shox in performance at the time. I hope they’re around to stay this time.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

Muckymuck said:


> Cool, yea I tried a friends Deville v1 years ago. It was amazing, so smooth. It’s strange how they just disappeared, they were so ahead of fox and rock shox in performance at the time. I hope they’re around to stay this time.


Not strange at all, I love their products but the customer service was a nightmare! Expensive price, 3-4 weeks to service à fork, fork came back broken, a real nightmare... Now this is fixed but they were really bad... Not everyone know that so it is difficult to come back...


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

smudge said:


> I have and I prefer it to stock. The beginning stroke is softer, eats bumps better and I feel like I'm getting better traction in rough corners. Earlier in the thread I calculated the progressivity and it's definitely more progressive than stock, but I don't have a strong opinion on that either way just yet.


With the B1 Link, did you also change your spring rate?


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

pnguyen3 said:


> With the B1 Link, did you also change your spring rate?


I did. Significantly if I'm remembering it correctly. I think I wrote it all out in this thread so it might be helpful to do a search. IIRC, I went from a 425 to a 525 and calculated the number of preload turns needed to go up to something higher. It's all in the thread, but it's been several months and I've moved on to other projects so it's been purged from my memory


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## Brian Damage (Apr 15, 2007)




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## SaamS (Aug 22, 2007)

Hey All,

For those of you who came from the Druid to the Dreadnought, do you feel like you gave up anything on the climbs? Overall, what do you feel like you gained by make the switch? I am currently on the Druid and considering slacking it out, adding a link and making the fork a 160. The more I think about it, I really start to wonder why not just move over to the Dreadnought. I climb for descents but I've come to appreciate what the Druid brings to the table in terms of climbing. I would suspect a portion of that is me coming from a 27.5 to a 29er but Druid has been amazing when climbing tech. I can't imagine that there is significant difference between the two bike climbing but I just don't know.

For context, I spend most of my riding in Northern California (specifically North Bay, Santa Rosa, Napa, Marin). I do several trips up to Downieville, CA but equally enjoy the riding I do in OR\WA single track. I think that encapsulates the range of riding I do. I find that on any of the single track the Druid really comes into it's own but as soon as I enter extended sections that are rocky or tech that I feel like I am getting worked. I seem to be carrying speed but really feel beat up at the end of the ride. 5'11" and roughly 200lbs kitted.

Thanks all!


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Brian Damage said:


> View attachment 1969270


I hate it when you spend my money like this


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

SaamS said:


> Hey All,
> 
> For those of you who came from the Druid to the Dreadnought, do you feel like you gave up anything on the climbs? Overall, what do you feel like you gained by make the switch? I am currently on the Druid and considering slacking it out, adding a link and making the fork a 160. The more I think about it, I really start to wonder why not just move over to the Dreadnought. I climb for descents but I've come to appreciate what the Druid brings to the table in terms of climbing. I would suspect a portion of that is me coming from a 27.5 to a 29er but Druid has been amazing when climbing tech. I can't imagine that there is significant difference between the two bike climbing but I just don't know.
> 
> ...



Pretty much the same reason I made the switch - from a Large Druid to a Large Dread. I found the Dread to have a better climbing position and to climb overall just as well. The biggest difference is in the longer wheelbase and lower BB by way of more sag. I would be curious to try a medium though although I feel that the effective top tube would be too uncomfortable for climbing.


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## hugosxm (Apr 30, 2021)

SaamS said:


> Hey All,
> 
> For those of you who came from the Druid to the Dreadnought, do you feel like you gave up anything on the climbs? Overall, what do you feel like you gained by make the switch? I am currently on the Druid and considering slacking it out, adding a link and making the fork a 160. The more I think about it, I really start to wonder why not just move over to the Dreadnought. I climb for descents but I've come to appreciate what the Druid brings to the table in terms of climbing. I would suspect a portion of that is me coming from a 27.5 to a 29er but Druid has been amazing when climbing tech. I can't imagine that there is significant difference between the two bike climbing but I just don't know.
> 
> ...



I'm 5.11 too and went for a Medium dreadnought because this is quite a big bike and a full 29r, came from a large devinci spartan


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

SaamS said:


> Hey All,
> 
> For those of you who came from the Druid to the Dreadnought, do you feel like you gave up anything on the climbs? Overall, what do you feel like you gained by make the switch? I am currently on the Druid and considering slacking it out, adding a link and making the fork a 160. The more I think about it, I really start to wonder why not just move over to the Dreadnought. I climb for descents but I've come to appreciate what the Druid brings to the table in terms of climbing. I would suspect a portion of that is me coming from a 27.5 to a 29er but Druid has been amazing when climbing tech. I can't imagine that there is significant difference between the two bike climbing but I just don't know.
> 
> ...


Having had both (at the same time for awhile) you do lose a lot on the climb. It's a big bike. As long as you don't care about setting PRs on your climbs then it shouldn't matter. TBH if I had to do it all over again I would have sized up to an XL from a Large on the Druid, added the cascade link out back, raised the fork to 160 and added an angle headset. I currently have a hightower and a dreadnought and I am currently converting the dreadnought to a single speed, dual crown park bike.


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## Brian Damage (Apr 15, 2007)

Kootenay rider said:


> Pretty much the same reason I made the switch - from a Large Druid to a Large Dread. I found the Dread to have a better climbing position and to climb overall just as well. The biggest difference is in the longer wheelbase and lower BB by way of more sag. I would be curious to try a medium though although I feel that the effective top tube would be too uncomfortable for climbing.


I just built up my dread this week and am still getting it sorted but I'm surprised to hear you say that the dread climbs just as well as a druid. It's not a total pig and the seat angle / climbing position is comfortable, but it is at the bottom of the pack in terms of climbing so far of the last bikes I've owned (habitual bike flipper here): SB150, SB130, Revel Rascal, YT Jeffsy 29, YT Capra 29, Ibis HD5. Capra by far being the worst. The dread makes up for it's lack of nimbleness with ample traction so makes for a pretty good technical climber, Seated pedaling is not bad but once you get out of the saddle it bounces all over the place. Could be my setup but who cares, I got this bike for how it handles going down which is fantastic! I would have thought the druid would be more in line with the sb130 or the rascal. The SB150 still amazes me for how well it climbs too.


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## Energ8t (Sep 10, 2013)

CHWK said:


> Having had both (at the same time for awhile) you do lose a lot on the climb. It's a big bike. As long as you don't care about setting PRs on your climbs then it shouldn't matter. TBH if I had to do it all over again I would have sized up to an XL from a Large on the Druid, added the cascade link out back, raised the fork to 160 and added an angle headset. I currently have a hightower and a dreadnought and I am currently converting the dreadnought to a single speed, dual crown park bike.


That’s exactly what I did to my Druid. Crushes almost everything that I need it to. Would be nice to have a Dread for rougher terrain, but I’m happy with the SuperDruid.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

like people keep saying. if youre super concerned about climbing on the dread. then is not the bike for you.


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## crashidy (Oct 20, 2017)

CHWK said:


> Having had both (at the same time for awhile) you do lose a lot on the climb. It's a big bike. As long as you don't care about setting PRs on your climbs then it shouldn't matter. TBH if I had to do it all over again I would have sized up to an XL from a Large on the Druid, added the cascade link out back, raised the fork to 160 and added an angle headset. I currently have a hightower and a dreadnought and I am currently converting the dreadnought to a single speed, dual crown park bike.


I had a buddy who did that and hated it.. Rides like crap. He bought a dread and is much happier. Went from an XL druid to a large dread.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Brian Damage said:


> I just built up my dread this week and am still getting it sorted but I'm surprised to hear you say that the dread climbs just as well as a druid. It's not a total pig and the seat angle / climbing position is comfortable, but it is at the bottom of the pack in terms of climbing so far of the last bikes I've owned (habitual bike flipper here): SB150, SB130, Revel Rascal, YT Jeffsy 29, YT Capra 29, Ibis HD5. Capra by far being the worst. The dread makes up for it's lack of nimbleness with ample traction so makes for a pretty good technical climber, Seated pedaling is not bad but once you get out of the saddle it bounces all over the place. Could be my setup but who cares, I got this bike for how it handles going down which is fantastic! I would have thought the druid would be more in line with the sb130 or the rascal. The SB150 still amazes me for how well it climbs too.


To be fair, I transferred over my Druid build to my Dread so there’s like a pound difference between the 2. In my experience they are extremely similar, the Dread is just ‘more Druid’. I was gonna buy the Cascade link and up the fork travel but then the seat angle would be out a bit and then maybe an angleset was needed …. I just thought, why not a Dread? It’s purpose built to have more travel. 

I agree with this review regarding their take on the two bikes:








Forbidden Dreadnought XT review - MBR


Forbidden now has a big gun but who needs the Forbidden Dreadnought XT when the Druid is already billed as capable? In short... everyone. Let me explain.




www.mbr.co.uk


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## Energ8t (Sep 10, 2013)

crashidy said:


> I had a buddy who did that and hated it.. Rides like crap. He bought a dread and is much happier. Went from an XL druid to a large dread.


I think the experience will depend on the intent and the rider’s terrain. I just wanted a bit more Druid (modded Druid 160/142 vs. Dread 170/154). If someone is trying to make it a Dread, that it is not. For me, I have a Secus, CC link, and 11-6 on it and it is a great all-around bike for climbing and some fairly aggressive DH.

But… I wouldn’t try to make it anything more than what it currently is, the 160 fork and rear shock are within spec aside from the CC link “bending” it to 142. If my local terrain was any rougher, I’d certainly have a Dread instead.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Energ8t (Sep 10, 2013)

Kootenay rider said:


> To be fair, I transferred over my Druid build to my Dread so there’s like a pound difference between the 2. In my experience they are extremely similar, the Dread is just ‘more Druid’. I was gonna buy the Cascade link and up the fork travel but then the seat angle would be out a bit and then maybe an angleset was needed …. I just thought, why not a Dread? It’s purpose built to have more travel.
> 
> I agree with this review regarding their take on the two bikes:
> 
> ...


I agree that the weight of the Druid is a bit high for what it is. The Dread is a bit too much bike for my local trails, but it has improved geo and travel and barely any additional weight gain over the Druid. That said, I’d still love one for rowdier trails I visit (including 
Washington and BC area)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Testing out the single speed set up. Seems to work super well so far. Currently trying to find a dual crown but used market sucks and everything new is out of stock for now.. This will be a bike park only set up for the summer.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

CHWK said:


> Testing out the single speed set up. Seems to work super well so far. Currently trying to find a dual crown but used market sucks and everything new is out of stock for now.. This will be a bike park only set up for the summer.
> View attachment 1969479


white dreadnought?


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

onawave said:


> white dreadnought?


White Dreadnought.


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## Brian Damage (Apr 15, 2007)

CHWK said:


> Testing out the single speed set up. Seems to work super well so far. Currently trying to find a dual crown but used market sucks and everything new is out of stock for now.. This will be a bike park only set up for the summer.
> View attachment 1969479


 Saweet! How' the EXT shock? What spring you running / rider weight?
I'm wanting a coil but damn they are expensive. Can get a DVO Jadex for 1/3 the cost to try it out


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

CHWK said:


> White Dreadnought.


**** yea bro


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

CHWK said:


> Testing out the single speed set up. Seems to work super well so far. Currently trying to find a dual crown but used market sucks and everything new is out of stock for now.. This will be a bike park only set up for the summer.
> View attachment 1969479


I think I saw this somewhere else - but can you send thru more pictures?


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

SaamS said:


> ...do you feel like you gave up anything on the climbs?


Coming from a Pivot Mach 6, climbing took a bit of a hit. Mach 6 isn't even that good of a climber.

I've been riding the Dread since June last year. Since I went on a longer ride last November, it's been on my mind to do what I can to make climbing a little more efficient. Some changes since then that worked for me..

Trying different tires. Right now I've got the IRC Tanken's on. So far, I'm leaning towards Vittoria Maza's Trail casing. No inserts.
Went from 165mm to 170mm cranks, and lower profile clip-ins because I had striking issues with flats at 170mm. Not so much with Crank Brothers Candy's. With 170mm cranks, 32t chainring and 10-51t Shimano cassette seems to be the sweet spot for me and my local trails. For park I'll switch back to 165mm with flats. 
Even though Fox Float X2 is only ~40g lighter than the EXT Storia with 375lb spring (I'm 190lbs / stock link & ziggy), I ended up preferring the Storia because I think the lock out does a better job keeping the rear suspension extended with less bobble, and my center mass more up and over the bottom bracket during climbs. And I think the rear tracks a little better on the downs. But the Lok V3, hell yeah 
Got rid of my tensioner and replaced it with Cascade lower guide. To me, it's a little bit less drive train resistance that I can feel. Good riddance because I've had sticks wedge between the tensioner and rear wheel causing the tensioner to bend into the tire, resulting in wheel rub.
Dropped from 180mm to 170mm air spring and swapped to a higher 30mm rise bar. Loved 180mm for park and shuttle days, but a little too much for daily.
I'm curious what anyone else might have done do help this DH beast climb a little better.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

onawave said:


> I think I saw this somewhere else - but can you send thru more pictures?




__
http://instagr.am/p/CWd2a1UPYSO/


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

SaamS said:


> For those of you who came from the Druid to the Dreadnought, do you feel like you gave up anything on the climbs? Overall, what do you feel like you gained by make the switch?


have both an XL Druid and Dreadnought in the garage as we speak. The Dreadnought recently replaced a 2020 Enduro. You have to more clearly give your definition "climbing." The Dread is way more of a handful in technical uphill...the Druid already has a long CS with a reward axle path that gets longer as you try to manual it. The Dread is even more pronounced and has an even longer reach. Getting the front wheel up and over obstacles is more of a challenge (this can actually get you into worse trouble when pointed down). On jeep road climbs, they feel similar. But my Dreadnought does take me longer. Even if you don't care about how fast you are on the way up, if you are rallying with your buddies, they are going to be waiting on you longer at the top. You get less rest/recovery time, slowing your downs.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

tdc_worm said:


> have both an XL Druid and Dreadnought in the garage as we speak. The Dreadnought recently replaced a 2020 Enduro. You have to more clearly give your definition "climbing." The Dread is way more of a handful in technical uphill...the Druid already has a long CS with a reward axle path that gets longer as you try to manual it. The Dread is even more pronounced and has an even longer reach. Getting the front wheel up and over obstacles is more of a challenge (this can actually get you into worse trouble when pointed down). On jeep road climbs, they feel similar. But my Dreadnought does take me longer. Even if you don't care about how fast you are on the way up, if you are rallying with your buddies, they are going to be waiting on you longer at the top. You get less rest/recovery time, slowing your downs.


How does the dread compare to your enduro? currently have a 180mm enduro and always looking to try different stuff, but the enduro is quite good.


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## SaamS (Aug 22, 2007)

TDC, appreciate the input and you basically covered the two types of climbing we encounter. We're either on packed double wide\fire roads or punchy single track with switches backs and tech that would warrant lifting the front end to punch over stuff. Totally makes sense that if you're sitting and spinning it likely to be apples to apples. Once you deviate from that, the differences between the two bike would be apparent. I wonder if sizing down would mitigate this to some degree but overall appreciate the input.


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## Muckymuck (Nov 11, 2021)

Watch out for this if you have the winter mud guard , mine has been installed since new by the LBS 🤯


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Muckymuck said:


> View attachment 1969622
> 
> Watch out for this if you have the winter mud guard , mine has been installed since new by the LBS 🤯


Yes, I noticed mine doing this on mine. Thankfully I had ridewrap on there. It took mine off and cut that piece back quite a bit.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

CHWK said:


> Yes, I noticed mine doing this on mine. Thankfully I had ridewrap on there. It took mine off and cut that piece back quite a bit.


Thanks for the tip. I've fitted mine and have RideWrap but haven't ridden the bike since installation. Will see what it's like as I really tried to centre it fully.


----------



## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Muckymuck said:


> View attachment 1969622
> 
> Watch out for this if you have the winter mud guard , mine has been installed since new by the LBS 🤯


Wow crazy for an item designed by Forbidden. 

I have the winter guard and installed it briefly but prefer my RRP mini fender that I fitted with a bit of trimming from a Dremel. I use it with the Jank Components moto foam and so far so good. I find it covers more of the linkage area and reduces (a bit more) the spray hitting the foam.


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

Muckymuck said:


> View attachment 1969622
> 
> Watch out for this if you have the winter mud guard , mine has been installed since new by the LBS 🤯


Obviously this is not properly fitted or it got loose and has moved to the right rubbing the frame.
I installed mine (by myself) as soon as it was available and it has not created any such issue. Maybe I am lucky...


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

MyDadSucks said:


> How does the dread compare to your enduro? currently have a 180mm enduro and always looking to try different stuff, but the enduro is quite good.


I don't really have a good comparison, as I have yet to put the Dread in the terrain that it deserves....the Druid handles everything everywhere with such confidence, that I suspect my Dread will only see extensive use when I travel to the PNW. The Druid would likely be my weapon of choice for all the bike parks in NM / CO. Whistler would be Dread territory.

That said, my feadback on the two would be these points:

1) The Enduro, somehow, brakes so incredibly well that it is easier to shut down speed later.
2) The Enduro has a high starting leverage ratio, that means that it gets in to its travel quicker. That _can_ translate to more pedal strikes and a less than firm platform to push off of.
3) 170/180 rear is A LOT of travel. There is nothing playful about it.
4) Specialized S Sizing is kookie. It allows smaller riders to size up by keeping the stack low on larger models. But for larger riders, they end up having to add spacers under the stem which ultimately closes the cockpit back down. 




SaamS said:


> I wonder if sizing down would mitigate this to some degree but overall appreciate the input.


go with the size with the most appropriate to you TT length, unless it is a shuttle only/lift served bike. It takes us way longer to go up than come down, and the in the saddle position is not super dynamic. once you have your stem length sorted for the steering feel you like, your left with only being able to make cockpit length adjustments by sliding the saddle fore and aft. it's worth noting that +/- movement of the saddle from neutral affects your effective STA.


----------



## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

tdc_worm said:


> have both an XL Druid and Dreadnought in the garage as we speak. The Dreadnought recently replaced a 2020 Enduro. You have to more clearly give your definition "climbing." The Dread is way more of a handful in technical uphill...the Druid already has a long CS with a reward axle path that gets longer as you try to manual it. The Dread is even more pronounced and has an even longer reach. Getting the front wheel up and over obstacles is more of a challenge (this can actually get you into worse trouble when pointed down). On jeep road climbs, they feel similar. But my Dreadnought does take me longer. Even if you don't care about how fast you are on the way up, if you are rallying with your buddies, they are going to be waiting on you longer at the top. You get less rest/recovery time, slowing your downs.


no offence meant, but i find this post quite strange. this is a down focused bike. if your worried about fitness levels at the top impacting your down run, then i don't get why would buy the dreadnought.

it is a big bike no doubt. but its dh capability is more than worth it for the troubles getting up the hill.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

onawave said:


> no offence meant, but i find this post quite strange. this is a down focused bike. if your worried about fitness levels at the top impacting your down run, then i don't get why would buy the dreadnought.
> 
> it is a big bike no doubt. but its dh capability is more than worth it for the troubles getting up the hill.


none taken. you may be okay with slowing people down when the trail turns to party mode. i am not. i want to be the first to the top, so i am the most rested when it comes time to point it down. if i am not, i will sacrifice the rest to not slow them down waiting on me....which will ultimately compromise my down.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

tdc_worm said:


> none taken. you may be okay with slowing people down when the trail turns to party mode. i am not. i want to be the first to the top, so i am the most rested when it comes time to point it down. if i am not, i will sacrifice the rest to not slow them down waiting on me....which will ultimately compromise my down.


but your currently riding the dreadnought?


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

I can understand some of the concern. Whilst wanting it to slay descents, one would at least hope it isn't punishing or comprising uphill.

Personally, I find it takes some pedalling but pedals well (especially out of the saddle efforts), and the slow speed trail manners and ability to raise the front and get over things are very good. 

It's not a light trail / XC bike and don't believe anyone really considering it expects it to behave like one.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

onawave said:


> but your currently riding the dreadnought?





tdc_worm said:


> *have both an XL Druid and Dreadnought in the garage as we speak.* The Dreadnought recently replaced a 2020 Enduro. You have to more clearly give your definition "climbing." The Dread is way more of a handful in technical uphill...the Druid already has a long CS with a reward axle path that gets longer as you try to manual it. The Dread is even more pronounced and has an even longer reach. Getting the front wheel up and over obstacles is more of a challenge (this can actually get you into worse trouble when pointed down). On jeep road climbs, they feel similar. But my Dreadnought does take me longer. Even if you don't care about how fast you are on the way up, if you are rallying with your buddies, they are going to be waiting on you longer at the top. You get less rest/recovery time, slowing your downs.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

tdc_worm said:


> none taken. you may be okay with slowing people down when the trail turns to party mode. i am not. i want to be the first to the top, so i am the most rested when it comes time to point it down. if i am not, i will sacrifice the rest to not slow them down waiting on me....which will ultimately compromise my down.


Maybe buy an e-bike?


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

ATXZJ said:


> Maybe buy an e-bike?


maybe buy a teleportation machine?

i''ll one up you: when i pack my Dread for the Bellingham, North Van, Squamish, etc, its primary means of propulsion will be shuttle followed by lift....i won't even have to pedal like those silly e bikers. 

nah. everyone wants a shortcut. i still enjoy the unfortunate side effect of CV conditioning that comes with self propulsion...er, at least my beer habit demands it. for spider mountain its the wrong tool for the job.

quality > quantity. YMMV.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

tdc_worm said:


> maybe buy a teleportation machine?
> 
> i''ll one up you: when i pack my Dread for the Bellingham, North Van, Squamish, etc, its primary means of propulsion will be shuttle followed by lift....i won't even have to pedal like those silly e bikers.
> 
> ...


If I didn't know better, I'd think you were using Google translate to post here .

I haven't read one review that led me to believe that the dreadnought was anything but a gravity oriented basher. Confused as to why anyone would expect anything different.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

ATXZJ said:


> If I didn't know better, I'd think you were using Google translate to post here .
> 
> I haven't read one review that led me to believe that the dreadnought was anything but a gravity oriented basher. Confused as to why anyone would expect anything different.


If I didn't know better, I'd think you weren't following the conversation in this thread.










To bring you up to speed, a fellow biker asked for first hand experience with both. I happen to be able to add some value here. Another fellow biker opined that the speed/ease with which one gets a bike to the top is not important. SaamS and I disagree on that. You offered the extremely valuable and germane input of "Maybe buy an ebike." Thx for the help. I guess I may need to be more clear in allowing you to "believe that the dreadnought was anything but a gravity oriented basher." If you can point me to the post I made alluding to something different, I will edit it so that no one else is confused. 

I cannot wait to get it in the PNW on some steep stuff.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

I've been trying to make sense of your posts but it seems like you live in your own head a bit too much, and come across like a person that just wants to argue.

best luck


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

ATXZJ said:


> I've been trying to make sense of your posts but it seems like you live in your own head a bit too much, and come across like a person that just wants to argue.
> 
> best luck


What a pleasant exchange we have had. The topic was Forbidden bikes, it appears you have other things on your mind and came here to:

Be sarcastic and provocative:



ATXZJ said:


> Maybe buy an e-bike?


To continue to be provocative and insulting:



ATXZJ said:


> If I didn't know better, I'd think you were using Google translate to post here.


To put words in other peoples mouths:



ATXZJ said:


> I haven't read one review that led me to believe that the dreadnought was anything but a gravity oriented basher. Confused as to why anyone would expect anything different.


To continue to be provocative:



ATXZJ said:


> I've been trying to make sense of your posts but it seems like you live in your own head a bit too much, and come across like a person that just wants to argue.


Just because you don't understand my words doesn't mean they aren't cogent. The opposite is likely true since plenty of other people understood my experiences. In the spirit of talking about bikes rather than talking about me, would you care to share your experiences with the two bikes in question? I haven't argued with you on a single point. If anything we agree on the Dread's purpose. All of the rest of the conversation has been you trying to call me out.

To continue to be provactive:



ATXZJ said:


> best luck


Feel free to distribute your tongue in cheek wish of "best luck" to somebody else. Can't remember if the saying is "Luck favors the prepared," or if it is "Luck is when opportunity meets preparation. Either way, I don't need the help.

Back to your regularly scheduled Dreadnought programming....


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Hi all.

has anyone put a boxxer on a dreadnought yet? just trying to understand how it all works.


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## Dingleberrry (Apr 1, 2021)

onawave said:


> Hi all.
> 
> has anyone put a boxxer on a dreadnought yet? just trying to understand how it all works.


I haven't but there's a bit of a writeup here: Forbidden Shrednought
Sounds like setting a boxxer at 180mm is the move to preserve geo - see the notes at the bottom. Not sure I'd want it much slacker and I forget the A2C its approved for.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

Looks like Connor and another rider competed at Thredbo on dual crown Dreadnoughts. Curious to see if they machined some custom linkage like cascade to increase travel. Have a buddy looking to upgrade from his Sentinel to a Dreadnought with a DC. After spending some time on my Druid, I will probably let go of my SX for a dreadnought, but would run a zeb instead. 


Vid starts at forbidden riders


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

ATXZJ said:


> Maybe buy an e-bike?


It's a funny jab cause some of us know from personal experience, that tdc_worm is a pedalling son-of-a-gun that gets up those hills faster than most, even on his big bike. I don't think there is anything weird about him wanting his bike to not hold him back on that part of the ride.

At one point I though that the idler equipped bikes could have it all, high AS with no chain growth, and as a result be very adept at climbing as well as descending. I've never ridden one but after having read the 20th reviewer state that his idler equipped test bike 'won't exactly get you to the top first...' I've taken the hint and recognize that they are indeed bikes made for descending, regardless of travel it seems.

I even rode with a really strong pedaling friend on his new Deviate, and for the first time he just couldn't manage to keep up on the climbs.

If I ever buy a DH bike it'll almost certainly be a Mullet HP idler bike, but for pedaling up part of the time, it just doesn't seem like the way to go.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

It was a joke. Reading through his posts, he seems to take himself a little too seriously. That's fine. I don't.

Everything I read about the dreadnought the day the embargo was lifted said that it was an okay climber but not great. I would buy one expecting nothing different. The druid is light-years ahead of my SX in terms of noise and efficiency. The dreadnought should be an improvement regardless.

Some of these guys act like they're marrying these bikes and starting a family with them. It's just a bike, not a lifelong commitment. Take the good with the the bad. 

It's a great time to be a mountain biker.


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## Dingleberrry (Apr 1, 2021)

ATXZJ said:


> Looks like Connor and another rider competed at Thredbo on dual crown Dreadnoughts. Curious to see if they machined some custom linkage like cascade to increase travel. Have a buddy looking to upgrade from his Sentinel to a Dreadnought with a DC. After spending some time on my Druid, I will probably let go of my SX for a dreadnought, but would run a zeb instead.


Heard Connor was on stock Dread, though I think they're working on modified links for future races.


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## Muckymuck (Nov 11, 2021)

Just did 5 days in Madeira, the bike was amazing. But the red dust did a job on the idler bearing, has developed a lot of play. How long are you guys getting out of an idler bearing? Are you changing the bearing or the entire unit?


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Dingleberrry said:


> Heard Connor was on stock Dread, though I think they're working on modified links for future races.


Connor just won the Australian National DH Championship on a stock Dreadnought with 180mm boxxer forks. Mind blown.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

JonJones said:


> Connor just won the Australian National DH Championship on a stock Dreadnought with 180mm boxxer forks. Mind blown.


yes I've ridden that track.

while its not wc level. its actually way gnalier than it looks.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Still pretty impressive. I certainly wouldn't be pinning down it with the pace they had on mine. 

Gutted to see Troy break his ankle too.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Just too much going on here for me.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

numbnuts said:


> Just too much going on here for me.
> View attachment 1972180


I can see what you mean, but it is where much of the magic happens. 

Personally, I don't like the stripes on the chainstays and 154. It reminds me of older Pivot bikes with branding, wheelsize, travel figures and DW Link decals everywhere. 

I'd be happier with all that removed but thankfully I can't see it when I ride it.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Pretty bike, and they look great in person. And I can’t say much! My enduro bike has a lot going on in the same area


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

Dreadnought owners with EXT Storia V3 rear coil shock; have you felt/heard the rear tire, rubbing on the mud fender upon bottom out?

To give some context:
I am 225lbs fully kitted, riding a 2021 Forbidden Dreadnought in mullet configuration.
Shock: 2021 EXT Storia v3 on a 425lbs spring at 33% sag
Settings:
LSC 7 clicks counter clockwise from zero (+) out of 14
HSC 6 clicks counter clockwise from zero (+) out of 14
HSR 4 clicks counter clockwise from zero (+) out of 10

Doing a 5 foot drop to flat, I don't feel any bottom out but I hear the rear tire rubbing often against the winter mud fender which touches the seat tube on bottom out.
I am thinking of changing to a new EXT V2 coil at 450lbs to get about 28-30% sag, but what else maybe I can change on my current shock settings, to avoid this, instead of replacing the coil?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

tp806 said:


> Dreadnought owners with EXT Storia V3 rear coil shock; have you felt/heard the rear tire, rubbing on the mud fender upon bottom out?
> 
> To give some context:
> I am 225lbs fully kitted, riding a 2021 Forbidden Dreadnought in mullet configuration.
> ...


Also running a Dreadnought with EXT Storia V3 coil. 

I'm 190 lbs with gear, ridding a 2021 Dreadnought size Large in mullet configuration. 

Shock: 2021 EXT Storia v3 on 375 lbs spring at about 35% sag
Settings (being 4 way adjustable: LSC-HSC-LSR-Lok):
LSC - completely open
HSC 3 clicks from open
LSR 3 clicks from open

I ordered my EXT from extusa.bike. On the order form I specified Rider level of aggressiveness (1 to 10): 9

Don't think I've done a 5 foot drop to flat, but I've done 8-10 foot drop to maybe 10% down slope. Wasn't too comfortable. I have never felt any sort of bottom out or rubbing. I'm currently running the stock rear fender with the Jank Pro Moto Foam Kit, but I have the winter fender. Probably only rained 3 times this winter in southern California where I thought I might put it on but never did especially seeing others having issues with it. 

Earlier in this thread I think someone used a Dremel to create more clearance, slightly trimming the inner part of the winter fender that is closest to scraping the seat tube. I'm not sure how the rear tire can rub against the fender since they are both mounted to the rear triangle and move together throughout the travel. But maybe. 

"what else maybe I can change on my current shock settings, to avoid this"

Send it to an authorized dealer to increase HSR?

To increase progression, you can change the stock link to Cascade Druid Link B1, but probably have to change to a higher spring rate to maintain 33% sag. I got the following comment directly from Cascade










They also told me, there should be more info on a linkage specifically for the Dreadnought later this spring around March - April. It should have the same bike kinematics as the Druid B1, but they're looking to create better compatibility with some coil shocks. The EXT Storia V3 coil will work with the current Cascade Druid Link B1 on the Dreadnought but to create clearance, you have to install a spring spacer. Like the following

Space Shuttle - EXT Storia

I currently have this installed on mine while I wait for the official Dreadnought link from Cascade, anticipating that I'll still need the spacer. Although, I've been really tempted to just pick up the Druid B1 link.


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## meeeeep (Apr 22, 2011)

whoops wrong forum.


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## Brian Damage (Apr 15, 2007)

You guys are running really low spring weights. Getting a good sag measurement is a pain as the lower shock bolt starts to get hidden in the shock tunnel.

I put a DHX2 coils on and started with a 475# spring based on the EXT chart but only was around 28% sag with minimal preload (I'm 210#). Since have put a 450 on which feels pretty good but I doubt I'm at the recommended 35% but I have to say the pedal platform feels pretty good with the lower sag


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Suns_PSD said:


> It's a funny jab cause some of us know from personal experience, that tdc_worm is a pedalling son-of-a-gun that gets up those hills faster than most, even on his big bike. I don't think there is anything weird about him wanting his bike to not hold him back on that part of the ride.
> 
> At one point I though that the idler equipped bikes could have it all, high AS with no chain growth, and as a result be very adept at climbing as well as descending. I've never ridden one but after having read the 20th reviewer state that his idler equipped test bike 'won't exactly get you to the top first...' I've taken the hint and recognize that they are indeed bikes made for descending, regardless of travel it seems.
> 
> ...


haha. thanks amigo. it's the product of chasing all of the skinny guys. i make no claim to be a son of a gun....the folks i ride with humble me on the reg.

could an idler bike be a do it all bike? my druid does everything well, its only limitation to beating my friends to the top is the pilot. same on the way down. i love it for centex riding, and it keeps me close enough on the way up where i get to enjoy the rest before we point it back down. my experience is this: for boutique brands, look at the terrain the bike was designed around if you want to know where it excels.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

ATXZJ said:


> It was a joke. Reading through his posts, he seems to take himself a little too seriously. That's fine. I don't.
> 
> Everything I read about the dreadnought the day the embargo was lifted said that it was an okay climber but not great. I would buy one expecting nothing different. The druid is light-years ahead of my SX in terms of noise and efficiency. The dreadnought should be an improvement regardless.
> 
> ...


nah, don't take myself seriously at all...so much is lost in translation when communication through keystrokes.

i agree about the folks that are married to their bikes. i am anything but. i trade my trail bike every two years, and my long travel bike on the years in between. i am far from a brand loyalist, and i think those that are live in an echo chamber. my Druid replacement should show up mid month. it is a great time to be a mountain biker....perhaps we should shred some laps together sometime?


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## RadicalPugilism (Nov 24, 2020)

tdc_worm said:


> nah, don't take myself seriously at all...so much is lost in translation when communication through keystrokes.
> 
> i agree about the folks that are married to their bikes. i am anything but. i trade my trail bike every two years, and my long travel bike on the years in between. i am far from a brand loyalist, and i think those that are live in an echo chamber. my Druid replacement should show up mid month. it is a great time to be a mountain biker....perhaps we should shred some laps together sometime?


Gonna give the details on the Druid replacement?


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

RadicalPugilism said:


> Gonna give the details on the Druid replacement?


Sure. It's gonna be something that has a mullet link as an available option...i am sold, haha. it will have longer reach, middle of the road axle path, shorter chainstay, and will be a single pivot.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

tdc_worm said:


> Sure. It's gonna be something that has a mullet link as an available option...i am sold, haha. it will have longer reach, middle of the road axle path, shorter chainstay, and will be a single pivot.
> 
> View attachment 1973179


Surprised to hear that you're a mullet fan, particularly at your height. I have short-ish legs and get a bunch of tire buzz. Mullet was great for me on long travel bikes. For me, they also seem to enter/exit berms better than the 29.

And yes, 1s & 0s don't lend themselves to nuance very well. Are you in CTX?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

tdc_worm said:


> Sure. It's gonna be something that has a mullet link as an available option...i am sold, haha. it will have longer reach, middle of the road axle path, shorter chainstay, and will be a single pivot.
> 
> View attachment 1973179


I'm stumped...


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

ATXZJ said:


> Surprised to hear that you're a mullet fan, particularly at your height. I have short-ish legs and get a bunch of tire buzz. Mullet was great for me on long travel bikes. For me, they also seem to enter/exit berms better than the 29.
> 
> And yes, 1s & 0s don't lend themselves to nuance very well. Are you in CTX?


Tire buzz was never an issue. Super long CS length that only gets longer as the suspension compresses makes it more challenging to lift the front wheel (for folks on smaller frames, the CS length is probably what you are used to on other frames). A mullet link extends the swingarm to raise the BB after swapping from a 29er wheel to a 650b wheel. the 650b wheel has a lower hub axle height. it essentially changes the relationship between the BB and the rear hub axle to make it easier to lift the front wheel. i was having challenges when pointed down steep stuff or after compressions followed by step ups. to be clear, i am not anti long CS...but i do think that long CS with a rearward axle path has some compromises. 

yup. ctx, atx to be exact.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm stumped...


at the risk of getting off of [thread] topic more than i already have: Commencal Meta TR.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

tdc_worm said:


> Tire buzz was never an issue. Super long CS length that only gets longer as the suspension compresses makes it more challenging to lift the front wheel (for folks on smaller frames, the CS length is probably what you are used to on other frames). A mullet link extends the swingarm to raise the BB after swapping from a 29er wheel to a 650b wheel. the 650b wheel has a lower hub axle height. it essentially changes the relationship between the BB and the rear hub axle to make it easier to lift the front wheel. i was having challenges when pointed down steep stuff or after compressions followed by step ups. to be clear, i am not anti long CS...but i do think that long CS with a rearward axle path has some compromises.
> 
> yup. ctx, atx to be exact.


I'm old-er so long wb and cs are good for me since my reaction times are slower and I can occasionally pick bad lines. The longer bike with a rearward axle path really works for me, and I'm also not great at tricks. More of a point N plow kinda rider. 

A bit perplexed on the Ziggy as it still allows the BB to drop and the STA to slacken. They say it dials kinematics for the 27.5 but i wish it'd raise the BB back 29er height. I'll be happy as there's at least there's an option from forbidden to run mullet.

My SX has an almost 14" BB height and can be a bit of a handful after the mullet conversion. Dreadnought/cascade link might be the next solution. 

South Austin here


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## RadicalPugilism (Nov 24, 2020)

tdc_worm said:


> Tire buzz was never an issue. Super long CS length that only gets longer as the suspension compresses makes it more challenging to lift the front wheel (for folks on smaller frames, the CS length is probably what you are used to on other frames). A mullet link extends the swingarm to raise the BB after swapping from a 29er wheel to a 650b wheel. the 650b wheel has a lower hub axle height. it essentially changes the relationship between the BB and the rear hub axle to make it easier to lift the front wheel. i was having challenges when pointed down steep stuff or after compressions followed by step ups. to be clear, i am not anti long CS...but i do think that long CS with a rearward axle path has some compromises.
> 
> yup. ctx, atx to be exact.


Any experience running the mulleted Druid in Austin?

Also, was that you at Lakeway about 3 weeks ago?


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

ATXZJ said:


> I'm old-er so long wb and cs are good for me since my reaction times are slower and I can occasionally pick bad lines. The longer bike with a rearward axle path really works for me, and I'm also not great at tricks. More of a point N plow kinda rider.
> 
> A bit perplexed on the Ziggy as it still allows the BB to drop and the STA to slacken. They say it dials kinematics for the 27.5 but i wish it'd raise the BB back 29er height. I'll be happy as there's at least there's an option from forbidden to run mullet.
> 
> ...


my experience is that the longer CS WITH rearward axle path penalizes slower reaction time as it makes it more of a process to get the front wheel up in emergency situations. think compressions followed up a step up, down hill bunny hops, or really short jump faces. again, this is probably more of an issue for L's and XL's.

you wouldnt want the BB has high on the Mullet as the 29er. that would move your BB closer the the imaginary line drawn between the front and rear hubs, which puts you more "on top of" the bike, and less "inside of the bike," affecting stability and cornering. additionally, the further you extend the swingarm to raise the BB, the more of a rearward axle path you are going to pick up. theoretically, if all else remains the same, that should serve to shorten the vertical ale path, and consequently shorten the travel. At least that is how it plays out in my mind. everything is a compromise haha.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

RadicalPugilism said:


> Any experience running the mulleted Druid in Austin?
> 
> Also, was that you at Lakeway about 3 weeks ago?



Been running it Ziggy'd for 14 months. No difference in "rollover" feel vs the 29er. Probably has as much to do with the rearward axle path as anything. Dread has never been run with a standard link.

Could've been me at LW. Try to get out there twice per week.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

tdc_worm said:


> my experience is that the longer CS WITH rearward axle path penalizes slower reaction time as it makes it more of a process to get the front wheel up in emergency situations. think compressions followed up a step up, down hill bunny hops, or really short jump faces. again, this is probably more of an issue for L's and XL's.
> 
> you wouldnt want the BB has high on the Mullet as the 29er. that would move your BB closer the the imaginary line drawn between the front and rear hubs, which puts you more "on top of" the bike, and less "inside of the bike," affecting stability and cornering. additionally, the further you extend the swingarm to raise the BB, the more of a rearward axle path you are going to pick up. theoretically, if all else remains the same, that should serve to shorten the vertical ale path, and consequently shorten the travel. At least that is how it plays out in my mind. everything is a compromise haha.


Understand how they measure BB drop.

When it comes to performance, I just consider actual height of the BB from the ground. 

The link doesn't seem to adjust the BB & STA for the roughly 19mm of drop the rear axle sees as a result of swapping to a 27.5. I figured it'd be like a flip chip and just artificially make the shock "longer", compensating for the drop, and then also adjust the leverage curve accordingly. Looks like it primarily does the latter.

It's not a big deal as my 29er only dropped the BB 1/4" when I swapped a 27x2.6 onto it.

The druid seems to suffer more pedal strikes than my other 29ers but it's manageable. Because of this I have no plans to mullet while living here in flatlandia.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

ATXZJ said:


> Understand how they measure BB drop.
> 
> When it comes to performance, I just consider actual height of the BB from the ground.
> 
> ...


Druid has a BB height of 340. Dread has a BB height of 347. At 30% sag the BB drops 39mm on the Dread to 301mm. At 30% sag, the BB drops 46.2mm to 300.8mm. At max travel, the Dread's BB is going to be way closer to the ground and have more pedal strikes. My experience with both of these bikes reflects that. I have zero issues with pedal strikes on my Druid. I think you have to take in to account the whole package, not just one figure. Travel and wheel base both have an impact. If your Druid is giving you issues now, I don't think a Dread with Ziggy and Cascade would solve it. YMMV.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

tdc_worm said:


> Druid has a BB height of 340. Dread has a BB height of 347. At 30% sag the BB drops 39mm on the Dread to 301mm. At 30% sag, the BB drops 46.2mm to 300.8mm. At max travel, the Dread's BB is going to be way closer to the ground and have more pedal strikes. My experience with both of these bikes reflects that. I have zero issues with pedal strikes on my Druid. I think you have to take in to account the whole package, not just one figure. Travel and wheel base both have an impact. If your Druid is giving you issues now, I don't think a Dread with Ziggy and Cascade would solve it. YMMV.


Think some of my pedal strikes are due to sorting out sag. Probably a little soft. Coming off a pretty nasty back injury over Thanksgiving so testing has been limited.

Longer travel bikes need higher BB height. Got that. My 180mm commencal has a pretty high BB. I also have not plans of pedaling a dreadnought in the rockbike riding here in CTX. 

Our time in Austin is coming to an end and we'll be moving soon, so a lot of this experience with the bikes will be a non issue. This was the main reason I bought the Druid, kept the SX, and now considering a dreadnought. Otherwise, I just would have sold everything and gotten a transition spur and a nukeproof digger to continue riding in CTX. 

Appreciate the advice


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Do you guys notice chain drag on HP bikes? 

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## RadicalPugilism (Nov 24, 2020)

Picard said:


> Do you guys notice chain drag on HP bikes?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk



I'm on a Druid - but yes, the drivetrain gets a little crunchy if it's not cleaned and lubed regularly. I honestly don't think it's enough to be energy sapping.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Picard said:


> Do you guys notice chain drag on HP bikes?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Yes - in my experience with both the Druid and the Dread. Removal of the lower guide does help a bit but overall these bikes don’t feel the same as non-hp bikes. It just feels like they need a little bit more effort to pedal - I did switch out my daily Druid for an Optic for this reason. However, the lack of pedal kick back and the suspension performance is amazing on rough terrain - so I added the Dread to my quiver.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Picard said:


> Do you guys notice chain drag on HP bikes?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Generally no, I don't notice any drag, the internet tells me its there but it hasn't been a factor for me. My climb times between the Dread and the previous stumpjumper are not significantly different. Many climbs are slightly faster on the dread, despite the HP and weight penalty, I figure I have a climbing speed and the bike doesn't change it. I have no concerns taking the bike on longer 30+ km and 1000+ meter elevation days. Any losses are small enough that I don't notice, I do keep the drivetrain very clean. I figure the change of a tire has far more impact than the HP.


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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

That will be an interesting article/video - if anyone has a Beta membership, please give us the gist of it?








High-Pivot: Fad or Rad? With Ryan Palmer & Travis Engel - Video







www.betamtb.com





In the past apparently they quantified that HP bikes, have a small 2% loss in efficiency... pedaling going up.
Wonder how the rest of the new HP bikes (Devinci, GT, Cannondale, Norco, etc.) stack up against the Dreadnought?


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Picard said:


> Do you guys notice chain drag on HP bikes?


Well, the idler does make noise. Making noise is expensive from an energy standpoint. So, yeah, I hear the thing, and it is letting me know that some of my energy is being converted into sound. Does it impact the ride? Sensory adaptation makes the noise go away after a while. But neither are XC bikes and neither have made my rides shorter because they are "sapping" energy.

Having toyed with several different idler setups from stock to Janks carrier with different 16t cogs with varying tooth profile, I have come to the conclusion that the shorter the tooth profile, the quieter the idler. If you are in the tallest climb gear and view the chainline from above, you will see it takes an acute bend from the contact point with the idler. If the chain clearance between the idler and guide were tight enough, then you could eliminate the teeth all together....the idler, after all, is neither a a drive gear nor a driven gear and does not transmit or receive power....it is actually a pulley.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

I'll clarify my previous post and agree that the difference with a HP bike (in my experience) is the same as changing out the rear tire to one with a bit more drag but more traction. At the end of the day it's definitely worth jumping on board to experience it if you can.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Has anyone compared the dreadnought to trek slash or Pivot firebird 

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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

Brian Damage said:


> You guys are running really low spring weights. Getting a good sag measurement is a pain as the lower shock bolt starts to get hidden in the shock tunnel.
> 
> I put a DHX2 coils on and started with a 475# spring based on the EXT chart but only was around 28% sag with minimal preload (I'm 210#). Since have put a 450 on which feels pretty good but I doubt I'm at the recommended 35% but I have to say the pedal platform feels pretty good with the lower sag
> 
> View attachment 1972950


At 190 lbs with gear, EXT sent me two springs, 400 and 425 lbs (the older, slightly longer and heavier springs). 

Based on how they set up the damper, 400 lbs felt a little bit too harsh and aggressive. So I ordered a 375 lbs spring, that happened to be the newer lighter and shorter model. I asked because I was concerned it was the wrong spring. 

375 lbs feels perfect. Been riding it for about 10 months now. If anything, I would go lower and try 350 lbs. 

Minor pain, trying to figure out what spring rate works and feels best for you on your local trails.


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

Picard said:


> Do you guys notice chain drag on HP bikes?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Yes, it is noticeable to me. 

I've tried different idlers such as the Jank with the SRAM X-sync and Connex chainring. I was fixed on the Connex for a while because it was so quiet, but the Jank internals of the carrier developed play with the Connex chainring. No matter what I did with the carrier, I couldn't get rid of the play. So I upgraded it to the NSB alloy and stainless steel idlers directly from Forbidden. I think the one piece design is more reliable. The NSB alloy version hasn't been an issue for 8 months now. 

I got rid of the tensioner for the Cascade bottom chain guide/bash guard. For me, I definitely feel less chain drag. 

I have an Anenomoly Switchgrade on order for April batch. I have a feeling I'm going to like it for the climbs because on my previous bikes, I've always preferred the 9point8 Forehead attachment for their Fall Line R droppers. Felt more efficient on the climbs with my center of mass more up and over the bottom bracket. 

Also to help with chain drag, I've been contemplating upgrading my stock derailleur jockey wheels to Kogel bearings. Anyone here think it's worth it?


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

What chain ring do you install on the bike? 

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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

In regards to the chain drag......
I think someone needs to try an idler pully that isn't narrow wide. I've owned a Dread and am now on a 3lb heavier Norco Range which is a lot easier to pedal. There was a period of time when I owned the Dread and the Range and I compared them against each other. I compared them as equals with the same parts spec along with the Cascade lower guide installed on the Dread which does helps with the drag , but the Range was still easier to pedal (less drag).This doesn't really make sense to me being that the Range was 2.5 to 3 lbs heavier. This extra weight should add up and tax me more than the lighter Dread , at least I would have though so? I basically ride up and down 3-4 times a week with each ride having about 900-1100m or 3000-3600 ft of climbing elevation per ride. 

I figure the Range has less drag because the idler wheel is not narrow wide and therefore possibly has less drag . I wish I would have noticed this when I was still a Dread owner as would have machined down the wide teeth to give it a try.

I hope someone decides to try this and reports back.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Bradical said:


> In regards to the chain drag......
> I think someone needs to try an idler pully that isn't narrow wide. I've owned a Dread and am now on a 3lb heavier Norco Range which is a lot easier to pedal. There was a period of time when I owned the Dread and the Range and I compared them against each other. I compared them as equals with the same parts spec along with the Cascade lower guide installed on the Dread which does helps with the drag , but the Range was still easier to pedal (less drag).This doesn't really make sense to me being that the Range was 2.5 to 3 lbs heavier. This extra weight should add up and tax me more than the lighter Dread , at least I would have though so? I basically ride up and down 3-4 times a week with each ride having about 900-1100m or 3000-3600 ft of climbing elevation per ride.
> 
> I figure the Range has less drag because the idler wheel is not narrow wide and therefore possibly has less drag . I wish I would have noticed this when I was still a Dread owner as would have machined down the wide teeth to give it a try.
> ...


I have noticed the friction on the chain when swapping in a new idler pulley (stock one) - by friction I mean the resistance to pull the chain off which is the design feature of the narrow wide design.  However, as the pulley wears (which is fast as we all know) this resistance lessens which I would think would mean an easier pedal but I haven't noticed that. Interesting thought though that would be great to test out.

On another note, how's the comparison between the Dreadnought and the Range? I would imagine the Range might track better in the rough under hard rear braking.


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

Kootenay rider said:


> I have noticed the friction on the chain when swapping in a new idler pulley (stock one) - by friction I mean the resistance to pull the chain off which is the design feature of the narrow wide design. However, as the pulley wears (which is fast as we all know) this resistance lessens which I would think would mean an easier pedal but I haven't noticed that. Interesting thought though that would be great to test out.
> 
> On another note, how's the comparison between the Dreadnought and the Range? I would imagine the Range might track better in the rough under hard rear braking.


I ended up running my Dread with the Druid Cascade link to up the travel to 167 or so so the performance was pretty close. I know that the Virtual high pivot of the Range claims to isolate breaking more , but they felt similar to me once I increased my travel on the Dread . In my opinion I think the brake jack is a little more noticeable on the Dread but only because it has far less travel.in comparison to the Range. Both Bikes are both so awesome , in the end I stayed with the Range as I was able to get bigger days out of it. 

I'm so tempted to buy another Dread to have another showdown , especially because I want an Mx set up.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Bradical said:


> I ended up running my Dread with the Druid Cascade link to up the travel to 167 or so so the performance was pretty close. I know that the Virtual high pivot of the Range claims to isolate breaking more , but they felt similar to me once I increased my travel on the Dread . In my opinion I think the brake jack is a little more noticeable on the Dread but only because it has far less travel.in comparison to the Range. Both Bikes are both so awesome , in the end I stayed with the Range as I was able to get bigger days out of it.
> 
> I'm so tempted to buy another Dread to have another showdown , especially because I want an Mx set up.


Thanks for the feedback! So by bigger days, do you mean the Range was less fatiguing to ride overall?


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

@Bradical, thanks for the perspective on both bikes. 
I'd heard with the Cascade Components link the pedalling suffered a little, is this the case in your view?

Interestingly, I've been running mine alongside a Deviate Highlander which pedals very well. I didn't think the Dreadnought was bad at all, but did end up running a 28/50 gearing for some of the steeper climbs where the Highlander was 30/50. 

Might just be how my legs felt at the time. It's barely been ridden due the shock issues on the Dreadnought which are finally getting solved.


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

Kootenay rider said:


> Thanks for the feedback! So by bigger days, do you mean the Range was less fatiguing to ride overall?


Yah, weird right? 
Perhaps the slightly bigger diameter (by 2 teeth , non narrow/wide) idler wheel plays a role. Perhaps its the geo and how I can sit and pedal. I don't know the reason why , but yes, I find the Range is easier to ride overall and I can put more big ride days back to back than I could on my Dread. Makes no sense , but that's how it played out for me.


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

JonJones said:


> @Bradical, thanks for the perspective on both bikes.
> I'd heard with the Cascade Components link the pedalling suffered a little, is this the case in your view?
> 
> Interestingly, I've been running mine alongside a Deviate Highlander which pedals very well. I didn't think the Dreadnought was bad at all, but did end up running a 28/50 gearing for some of the steeper climbs where the Highlander was 30/50.
> ...


Yes, the Cascade link did make the Dread pedal slightly worse but I felt the downhill performance gains were worth it.
It was a very slight negative diff.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Bradical said:


> Yes, the Cascade link did make the Dread pedal slightly worse but I felt the downhill performance gains were worth it.
> It was a very slight negative diff.


How does cascade link help with downhill? 

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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

When I ran the Jank idler carrier with the Connex chainring, which is not narrow wide, it was definitely more quiet. But I don't recall less drag. Maybe it's not as efficient as the Range because the high pivot is in a slightly different position?

Recently on the climbs, I've been taking the time to close out LSC on the Fox 38 Factory, some annoying 20 clicks back and forth... along with locking out the rear. For me it's been a noticeable and appreciated difference. I'm running 32/51 gearing with 170mm cranks. 



> Yes, the Cascade link did make the Dread pedal slightly worse but I felt the downhill performance gains were worth it.
> It was a very slight negative diff.


I'm really tempted to give up waiting for the official Cascade Dreadnought link and get the Druid B1. Not even certain they will offer one.

On the topic of linkage. 

On this episode of Downtime, https://open.spotify.com/episode/6THv3INMWTE0adv4jpoVz0?si=10c8f3df129d443e, titled "2022 World Cup Pre-Season Chat with Neko Mulally and Shawn Spomer", at around 28:20. Neko says Magnus is running a link to give the Dread 180mm rear travel.

On Magnus's Youtube channel, 



, I think he referred to it as the "biggie" link with more travel to feel more like a down hill bike. 

Does anyone know anything about this link the Forbidden Synthesis DH World Cup team is using? They already landed 2 podiums with it. More important question, when can I get one?


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## RadicalPugilism (Nov 24, 2020)

pnguyen3 said:


> When I ran the Jank idler carrier with the Connex chainring, which is not narrow wide, it was definitely more quiet. But I don't recall less drag. Maybe it's not as efficient as the Range because the high pivot is in a slightly different position?
> 
> Recently on the climbs, I've been taking the time to close out LSC on the Fox 38 Factory, some annoying 20 clicks back and forth... along with locking out the rear. For me it's been a noticeable and appreciated difference. I'm running 32/51 gearing with 170mm cranks.
> 
> ...


I think Forbidden had said that Connor was running a stock Dread when he competed at the Australian National Champs. I'd be surprised if he was running it stock at the World Cup.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

That track at Lourdes looks super chunky. If he and Magnus are hitting that with anything under 180mm at the rear, they're superhuman.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

According to Connor Fearon, he and Magnus were running stock Dreadnought frames and linkage with 154mm travel. 

I don't know whether to be enthusiastic or throroghly despondent upon realising that this frame is so capable, and I'm criminally underusing it.

Either way, my mind is blown!!


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## RadicalPugilism (Nov 24, 2020)

JonJones said:


> According to Connor Fearon, he and Magnus were running stock Dreadnought frames and linkage with 154mm travel.
> 
> I don't know whether to be enthusiastic or throroghly despondent upon realising that this frame is so capable, and I'm criminally underusing it.
> 
> Either way, my mind is blown!!


I don't know if I buy it - doesn't make sense why they wouldn't run custom linkage unless Forbidden really wants to sell bikes.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Well....many months later and the Dread is ready to go again after I learned the answer to "What can brown do for you" (how did that slogan last all the way till 2010!?) Foruntatel the damage was really just isolated to the wheels and tires. Switched from Baron to Flow rims. Added Cushcore. Should be ready to go. 

Question, I went through the effort of running Jagwire foam the whole length of the rear brake hose. However, it still makes quite a loud slapping noise inside the top tube. What else should I try to alleviate that noise? I don't like to get too nit picky with noises, it is a mechanical machine smashing through rocks after all, but this is the last major noise coming from the bike and it seems like it should be fixable.


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## RadicalPugilism (Nov 24, 2020)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-comparing-connor-fearon-and-magnus-mansons-forbidden-dreadnought-dh-bikes.html


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

I stand corrected. I heard Connor was on stock travel and presumed Magnus was too. He's at 180mm. Just imagine what that must feel like on descents!


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## RadicalPugilism (Nov 24, 2020)

JonJones said:


> I stand corrected. I heard Connor was on stock travel and presumed Magnus was too. He's at 180mm. Just imagine what that must feel like on descents!


Still speaks volumes about what an animal Connor is! Excited to see what that DH bike can do.


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Maybe Forbidden should start up a XC team and race the Druid's? But seriously, that's something else to show up to a WC DH race with a 154mm travel frame ..... hard to be competitive.


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## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Kootenay rider said:


> Maybe Forbidden should start up a XC team and race the Druid's? But seriously, that's something else to show up to a WC DH race with a 154mm travel frame ..... hard to be competitive.


Makes me wonder why Fearon chose to stay with stock travel assuming that he also had the choice to do the 180mm mod.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

fizzywater said:


> Makes me wonder why Fearon chose to stay with stock travel assuming that he also had the choice to do the 180mm mod.


guessing he didnt think it was better? another way to ask the question would be why did magnuson not stay with the 154mm travel link?


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## RadicalPugilism (Nov 24, 2020)

tdc_worm said:


> guessing he didnt think it was better? another way to ask the question would be why did magnuson not stay with the 154mm travel link?


Good point. Totally possible that the Dreadnought just feels like **** with that link.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

RadicalPugilism said:


> Good point. Totally possible that the Dreadnought just feels like **** with that link.


Could be, it's something I learned the hard way on a bike. More is not always better when it comes to travel.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

RadicalPugilism said:


> Good point. Totally possible that the Dreadnought just feels like **** with that link.





JonJones said:


> Could be, it's something I learned the hard way on a bike. More is not always better when it comes to travel.


yeah. it's fascinating that we are all infatuated with getting more travel out of our bikes, constantly over forking, over linking, and over stroking the shocks. what if they were just more capable bikes from the beginning.

from a geo perspective, a link that gains 26mm of rear travel would likely require a longer stroke/eye to eye shock and would need to raise the BB quite a bit to keep the pedals out of the rocks.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Generally speaking, I've always been happy with 10-20mm of added fork travel when I've done it, and tend to stay within the manufacturer recommended parameters.

That said, if I could add a link that gave it 165mm travel, didn't void the warranty and didn't make climbing murderous, I'd be interested. The travel is a little behind the progressive geo, despite how nicely it rides.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

JonJones said:


> Generally speaking, I've always been happy with 10-20mm of added fork travel when I've done it, and tend to stay within the manufacturer recommended parameters.
> 
> That said, if I could add a link that gave it 165mm travel, didn't void the warranty and didn't make climbing murderous, I'd be interested. The travel is a little behind the progressive geo, despite how nicely it rides.


yeah, given that most bike builders square up their suspension front to rear, over forking seems to make more sense for me. I appreciate how Yeti and Forbidden have configured their rides, which doesnt follow that trend. With the dreadnought, for example, with a 63.5* HA using a 170mm travel fork, you actually get 152mm of vertical wheel travel up front....which is pretty dang close to the 154mm of vertical wheel travel out back. makes you wonder....what exactly makes a bike feel balanced front to rear?


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

tdc_worm said:


> yeah, given that most bike builders square up their suspension front to rear, over forking seems to make more sense for me. I appreciate how Yeti and Forbidden have configured their rides, which doesnt follow that trend. With the dreadnought, for example, with a 63.5* HA using a 170mm travel fork, you actually get 152mm of vertical wheel travel up front....which is pretty dang close to the 154mm of vertical wheel travel out back. makes you wonder....what exactly makes a bike feel balanced front to rear?


Thanks for that perspective, I'd not considered the vertical travel numbers and now I see how they're closely aligned. I still feel the geometry would suit more travel, but only if it didn't compromise things, ambitious and a little idealistic I know.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

The vertical travel numbers discussion is interesting but ultimately I don't know if it holds water. Here are a few reasons why I feel this way, but feel free to correct me.

1) Does the rear suspension on a mountain bike even travel that much vertically? Because they might be measuring axle distance, all of which might not be straight up and down.
2) Motocross bikes run nearly identical travel front and rear. It varies but in the case of a new KTM450 the front travel is 3% more than the rear travel, pretty slight difference I'd say and I think they have things pretty dialed on those things. Geo is really stable on MX bikes, unlike MTBs.
3) A 160 fork might only have 145mm vertical travel (or whatever) but it still has 160mm of travel when you smack in to something. Going downhill, that 160 fork can become all vertical travel when you are at the right angle. Seems that could be more important.
4) I've never ridden a bike as well balanced as my SJ Evo and with a Cascade it has 158mm rear travel, which would be considerably more than the vertical travel of the 160mm fork. Other bikes I've owned w/ less rear travel, weren't as good as this bike in any way. Not sure how much the suspension plays in to that of course (honestly I credit the longer chainstays more than anything), but the most imbalanced suspension travel bike I've owned, feels the best to me by a good margin. Sure this is anecdotal but my experiences haven't shown that having a bunch less rear suspension travel makes for a better balanced bike.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> from a geo perspective, a link that gains 26mm of rear travel would likely require a longer stroke/eye to eye shock and would need to raise the BB quite a bit to keep the pedals out of the rocks.


For sure the BB height/sag would need to be balanced, but that's fairly easily accomplished by changing the "lower lever" (rocker pivot to lower eye). Moving that particular eye doesn't change the kinematics as drastically as changing the "upper lever", but mostly affects the geometry of the bike by changing the position of the swingarm. Changing the length the "upper lever" (rocker pivot to the upper eye) changes the kinematics drastically. If it's shortened, the leverage ratio increases and it's possible to get much more travel from the rear end with the same shock length and stroke. One of the benefits is that the damper shaft moves "more slowly" (not a 100% perfect description) and should suffer less from the problems that the Dread has near full compression...basically being over-damped near the end stroke. The leverage curve can remain very similar, it would just be higher overall from beginning to end. This does have a relatively minor effect on pedalling, but IMO it still pedals just fine (still less motion than a stock SB150 with a coil)


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

Ok, so I'm back on a Dreadnought (this time a Ziggy set up) with the standard link. In previous comments I stated that the Norco Range high pivot pedals better, I still believe this but that's only when the Cascade Druid link is installed on the Dread to bump travel to 167mm which in my memory made the Dreads climbing worse. The Dread is fine!


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

What sag % are most of you settling with in order to get a good pedal platform without sacrificing DH performance.
Forbbiden recommends 35% or 22.75mm at the shock. I think I like 33 %


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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Bradical said:


> What sag % are most of you settling with in order to get a good pedal platform without sacrificing DH performance.
> Forbbiden recommends 35% or 22.75mm at the shock. I think I like 33 %


Welcome back! I’m running a Lyrik with Secus and the stock X2 - I’m ~195lbs and run 185 psi. Before they had a setup chart out I emailed them about recommendations and it was the same as the Druid. Body weight minus 5-10 for rear shock psi, rebound as fast as you can handle and compression open. Seems to work well for me but I’m still not using full travel - might try a lower psi in the rear. Guess that doesn’t answer your question regarding % sag, I’ll have to check.

On another note, I really liked the Optic as my daily and decided on switching to the Stump Evo. It feels pretty much the same as the Optic with a bit more cushion which is what I wanted. Even though the Evo is close in travel to the Dread, it definitely feels like a long travel trail bike in comparison.


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## Bradical (Feb 18, 2013)

Kootenay rider said:


> Welcome back! I’m running a Lyrik with Secus and the stock X2 - I’m ~195lbs and run 185 psi. Before they had a setup chart out I emailed them about recommendations and it was the same as the Druid. Body weight minus 5-10 for rear shock psi, rebound as fast as you can handle and compression open. Seems to work well for me but I’m still not using full travel - might try a lower psi in the rear. Guess that doesn’t answer your question regarding % sag, I’ll have to check.
> 
> On another note, I really liked the Optic as my daily and decided on switching to the Stump Evo. It feels pretty much the same as the Optic with a bit more cushion which is what I wanted. Even though the Evo is close in travel to the Dread, it definitely feels like a long travel trail bike in comparison.


Yah, Compression wide open (soft) or close to it and rebound as fast as you can go is key with these High Pivot bikes. Edit, forgot to say that the Stumpy Evo is a nice choice , super fun fast bike !


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

236lb ready to ride and I have my Fox X2 at 230psi.
Gets me at about 33% sag. 

HSC at 1 from full open.
LSC at 5 from full open
HSR 3 from full fast ( might be less, it's a PITA to get to it)
LSR at 5 from full fast.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Haven't posted in here in ages so here is where my Dread is currently at. Waiting on a Boxxer for the front end. Testing the single speed for bike park set up. Had a few laps with it the other day and aside from some chain slap which I hope to minimize with a G3C clutched tensioner this bike rocks as a single speed rig. Can't wait to get the 180 DC on the front. Should be a fast A-Line / Dirt Merchant bike.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

CHWK said:


> Haven't posted in here in ages so here is where my Dread is currently at. Waiting on a Boxxer for the front end. Testing the single speed for bike park set up. Had a few laps with it the other day and aside from some chain slap which I hope to minimize with a G3C clutched tensioner this bike rocks as a single speed rig. Can't wait to get the 180 DC on the front. Should be a fast A-Line / Dirt Merchant bike.
> 
> View attachment 1980202


let us know how you go


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Bradical said:


> What sag % are most of you settling with in order to get a good pedal platform without sacrificing DH performance.
> Forbbiden recommends 35% or 22.75mm at the shock. I think I like 33 %


I also like ~33% sag. I was running ~ 35% but was getting too many pedal strikes, I think 33% is a bit better without feeling much of a compromise. Bike goes good up and down.

Forbidden didnt have the recommended settings out last year, took me a bit of playing around to settle on my settings and looking at their chart now I am pretty much bang on all their recommended numbers.

Float X2, 67-68kg riding weight
PSI - 115
LSR - 17
HSR - 7
LSC - 15
HSC - open


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

McShred said:


> I also like ~33% sag. I was running ~ 35% but was getting too many pedal strikes, I think 33% is a bit better without feeling much of a compromise. Bike goes good up and down.
> 
> Forbidden didnt have the recommended settings out last year, took me a bit of playing around to settle on my settings and looking at their chart now I am pretty much bang on all their recommended numbers.
> 
> ...


What's the link? Unless I'm being dense, I haven't seen the Dreadnought suspension settings page. Even Google search only leads me to the Druid page. Am I missing something? I'd like to see how close I am to their recommendations.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

JonJones said:


> What's the link? Unless I'm being dense, I haven't seen the Dreadnought suspension settings page. Even Google search only leads me to the Druid page. Am I missing something? I'd like to see how close I am to their recommendations.











Setting Up Your Dreadnought's Suspension


Jump to: Fox Float X2 | EXT Storia LOK V3 | | RS Super Deluxe Ultimate | Ohlins TTX2AIR | Push Elevensix | THE FOX FLOAT X2 PERFORMANCE ELITE SHOCK STEP 1 (PERFORMANCE ELITE ONLY) Turn the 2-position Compression lever to the fully OPEN mode (counter-clockwise). STEP 2 To set the sag, push the...




www.forbiddenbike.com


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Thank you! @McShred 

I've no idea why I couldn't access that page on my phone.
Anyway, seems like I'm running too little sag, at 200 psi I'd be at 40% sag. I run mine between 220 and 230.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Anybody here have issues with their bike eating through shock eyelet bushings? I've replaced the bushings in the shock probably 7 times in a year and replaced the mounting hardware once as well. Running an EXT Storia if that matters.


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

CHWK said:


> Anybody here have issues with their bike eating through shock eyelet bushings? I've replaced the bushings in the shock probably 7 times in a year and replaced the mounting hardware once as well. Running an EXT Storia if that matters.


That's strange. I'm also running EXT Storia V3 for almost a year.. no issues at all with shock eyelet bushings or mounting hardware.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

dh bike do you think?


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Did forbidden raise the price of dreadnought? 

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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

onawave said:


> dh bike do you think?
> 
> View attachment 1981269


Well judging by the short fork, the water bottle holder and the fact it's a druid I am going to guess not haha I would assume it's a new edit. Still wondering when we're gonna see the new DH bike tho.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

how does coil shock perform on dreadnought?
Does push 11 perform better than other coil shocks?


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Picard said:


> how does coil shock perform on dreadnought?
> Does push 11 perform better than other coil shocks?


I think the coil is great, but I tend to prefer them over air shocks. I had to send mine back to PUSH several times to have them change the valving but it's been working great this past year. Hopefully they've tweaked their system a little for this bike because what they had going last year wasn't allowing the back end to move very quickly.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

What dropper post will fit into the dreadnought? I am thinking of PNW post.

Can the 170mm post fit the dreadnought? 

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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Picard said:


> how does coil shock perform on dreadnought?
> Does push 11 perform better than other coil shocks?


The coil is quite nice on the Dreadnought. It certainly fits the character of the bike. I think the ask of if the Push 11 is better than other coil shocks is a little subjective. I run an EXT Storia V3 on mine which is in the same ballpark of price of the push and tuned to my weight and riding style. At that point unless you're an extremely good rider and really in touch with what the bike is doing I don't think you're going to notice a difference between the two.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

What about my question for the seat post? 

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## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

Picard said:


> What about my question for the seat post?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Best to use the handy PNW seatpost calculator on their site along with the max seatpost insertion spec on Forbidden's website and then factor in your current seatpost height. Doesn't take long and works great. Just did that for a new frame I got.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I am confused about the calculator. What number for seat collar? 

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

What is the maximum insertion length of seat post on medium frame? 

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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

Picard said:


> What is the maximum insertion length of seat post on medium frame?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


240mm for a medium Dreadnought or Druid
270mm for a large Dreadnought or Druid

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Do I enter 240mm into the seat collar to rails? 

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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Picard said:


> Do I enter 240mm into the seat collar to rails?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


I'll tell you now that even on an XL, I can't put my 240mm dropper post in the frame to the collar as it'll actuate the dropper function.

What I believe they're saying is that figure of 240mm or 270mm is the maximum insertion depth possible in each frame. Not how long a dropper post can be fitted, not that there's a 270mm drop model anyway.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

What is the number seat to collar rails? 

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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

Picard said:


> What dropper post will fit into the dreadnought? I am thinking of PNW post.
> 
> Can the 170mm post fit the dreadnought?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


I'm running the PNW Loam 170mm 31.6mm dropper right now, on a size Large Dreadnought. I wanted the max travel that would slam all the way down to the seat clamp.









The PNW Loam 170mm dropper max insertion length is 260mm. I haven't tried the One Up 180mm dropper at 267mm max insertion length, but I have tried the Fox Factory Transfer 175mm dropper. The Fox will not slam all the way down. Rough estimate of the difference in insertion length between PNW Loam 170mm and Fox Factory transfer 175mm.









Here's Forbidden's tech spec









If you want it slammed all the way in as I do, I think you need to take into account the dropper cable flexing at the bottom against the frame. With the Fox, I could feel the cable resisting.

I lucked out and picked up the PNW Loam dropper for $160 during the Christmas sale. Besides the 1mm side to side play it has with the seat clamp, apparently by design which I've gotten used to, it has been by far the most reliable dropper I've owned. I never had to add air, or have issues with stiction or brake not holding weight. Best bang for the buck in my opinion.


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## Brian Damage (Apr 15, 2007)

pnguyen3 said:


> I'm running the PNW Loam 170mm 31.6mm dropper right now, on a size Large Dreadnought. I wanted the max travel that would slam all the way down to the seat clamp.
> View attachment 1982209
> 
> 
> ...


I’ve got a 210 one up on a L dread. Max insertion is about an inch from slammed


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Does 150mm post fit medium dreadnought? 

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## tp806 (Nov 13, 2008)

Picard said:


> Does 150mm post fit medium dreadnought?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Yes it does, I am running a 160mm Bike Yoke Revive with room to slam it even lower if needed

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Woo-hoo.
I just ordered medium dreadnought with push shock. I have to give the LBS my hardware to install them 

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

What is good chain stay protector for dreadnought? 

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Is ESI silicon tape good as chain stay protector? 

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Can 170mm fit medium dreadnought? 

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Can the cascade link increase rear travel of the dreadnought? 

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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Picard said:


> Can the cascade link increase rear travel of the dreadnought?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Yes. It's been covered some pages back. I plotted the travel (vertical) and leverage curve and shared my findings. IIRC, it increases travel to about 163mm, decreases the leverage ratio in the beginning stroke and makes it slightly more progressive at ~40%


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Picard said:


> Is ESI silicon tape good as chain stay protector?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Why do you need a chain stay protector? I've been riding mine for over 1.5 years hard and there is no damage to the bottom side of the chain stay at all. The top cover more than enough. Also seeing all your other questions, you really should just ride the bike stock for awhile and learn how it rides and feels and then adjust from there. 

I ride mine on tons of chunk, gnar, and big jumps in the summer at Whistler and have never once thought that it needs more rear travel especially with the coil out back.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

CHWK said:


> Why do you need a chain stay protector? I've been riding mine for over 1.5 years hard and there is no damage to the bottom side of the chain stay at all. The top cover more than enough. Also seeing all your other questions, you really should just ride the bike stock for awhile and learn how it rides and feels and then adjust from there.
> 
> I ride mine on tons of chunk, gnar, and big jumps in the summer at Whistler and have never once thought that it needs more rear travel especially with the coil out back.


I am just paranoid about rock strikes 

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## garlic-breead (8 mo ago)

adurant said:


> deep space 9 with 11/6


luckyyy
tell us how the 11/6 pans out agnist other high end coils


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

My LBS mentioned that one of the rider had to get a custom made bolt for cascade link B1.

Does anyone use the custom made bolt on the dreadnought? 

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

My mechanic just checked the cascade link with push 11. The link is too close to the frame. He thinks it might cause damage 

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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Just saw the EWS feature on another site and it shows the team rider's Dreadnought. What's interesting is them using full 29" with Ziggy link and 160mm fork.

I always believed the fabric of reality would be torn if the link was used on a 29" rear. I wonder if there any limitations? Can't be many given this is EWS. 

Anyone have any experience of it? Does it shorten the rear?


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

JonJones said:


> Just saw the EWS feature on another site and it shows the team rider's Dreadnought. What's interesting is them using full 29" with Ziggy link and 160mm fork.
> 
> I always believed the fabric of reality would be torn if the link was used on a 29" rear. I wonder if there any limitations? Can't be many given this is EWS.
> 
> Anyone have any experience of it? Does it shorten the rear?


I believe I posted the effect of the geometry on this about this time last year but I can't recall what it is off the top of my head. At the time Forbidden were saying that it would void the warranty because it would introduce contact somewhere (which is impossible.) There's a thread on FB where they finally relented, said they were wrong and said that it wouldn't void the warranty.

I've been running mine with 29" rear and the ziggy link since the my second or third ride last year. For the area that I ride most frequently, it gets the BB up enough that I don't get nearly as many rock strikes as I did with the stock setup. Coupled with the Cascade rocker and a longer fork, its puts the BB in a good position to make use of the extra travel that the Cascade link provides.


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## SaamS (Aug 22, 2007)

smudge said:


> I believe I posted the effect of the geometry on this about this time last year but I can't recall what it is off the top of my head. At the time Forbidden were saying that it would void the warranty because it would introduce contact somewhere (which is impossible.) There's a thread on FB where they finally relented, said they were wrong and said that it wouldn't void the warranty.
> 
> I've been running mine with 29" rear and the ziggy link since the my second or third ride last year. For the area that I ride most frequently, it gets the BB up enough that I don't get nearly as many rock strikes as I did with the stock setup. Coupled with the Cascade rocker and a longer fork, its puts the BB in a good position to make use of the extra travel that the Cascade link provides.


Can you link the FB thread and what does the CC link on the dread put your rear at travel wise? 

Thanks!


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

https://m.facebook.com/groups/320439768665739/permalink/831902197519491/



Thanks @smudge, I found the thread. Thanks for remembering it!
Very interesting. Now if only they could just confirm the B1 link is good to go that'd be great!


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

SaamS said:


> Can you link the FB thread and what does the CC link on the dread put your rear at travel wise?
> 
> Thanks!


It's in the Forbiddend group and I'd have to go searching for it...sorry but I'm not going to take the time to do that. I think the CC link data is in this thread too if you want to try searching for it. IIRC, it bumps the travel up to about 162 once you account for the reality that not many shocks are ever going to get the full 65 mm of stroke due the the bottom out bumpers going solid with 2mm of stroke left. It changes the progression curve a little bit too but only because the leverage rate in the beginning stroke increases. IIRC, end stroke rate is still ~1.8 but beginning stroke approaches 3 so it's more supple. In my experience, it's noticeable on the trail and you still get very good bottom out protection.


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

I've been riding my Dread with the Cascade Druid Link B1 and Ziggy link for about a month. Mullet wheels. It's definitely more supple off the top. In my opinion, the rear wheel tracks the ground much better. I have not yet experienced bottom out. With the stock link I was running a 375 lbs spring. With the Cascade, I'm trying to decide between 425 or 450 lbs springs. 

I'm running a EXT Storia V3. To create clearance for the spring, I installed the Pinner machine shop Space Shuttle. 

Climbing has taken a slight hit. But on the downs, I'm enjoying the bike much more. I don't see myself taking the Cascade link off.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

This is my new dreadnought. What do you guys think?









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## ARider (Feb 28, 2005)

Anyone out there riding a small frame?
What is the max seat post insertion?

I am curious if you can run a 180 dropper with a bb->saddle height of around 710mm.


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## ARider (Feb 28, 2005)

Found it buried in the FAQ; size small should have 220mm of insertion, so should just barely be OK with a 180mm OneUp dropper.

Now I just gotta find a small frame.....


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I've got a brand new in the box OneUp V2 180 31.6 for sale for $180 shipped Continental USA.

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## ARider (Feb 28, 2005)

Suns_PSD said:


> I've got a brand new in the box OneUp V2 180 31.6 for sale for $180 shipped Continental USA.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


If you've got a small Dreadnought in black to go with it I'll take it!


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## Dingleberrry (Apr 1, 2021)

ARider said:


> If you've got a small Dreadnought in black to go with it I'll take it!


You looking for new or used?


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## ARider (Feb 28, 2005)

Dingleberrry said:


> You looking for new or used?


After much debate, actually decided on a medium. But open to new or used!


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## Raysrider (Oct 18, 2021)

I think we have all been looking for this in some way or another. Right from the horses mouth.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Still warranty comprising though. I'd have thought by now Forbidden would have released their own...


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## ARider (Feb 28, 2005)

41%.......damn.


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## sean44 (Dec 10, 2018)

Has anyone experimented with different chain guides? The ethirteen device is noisy and when the lower roller is removed seems to reduce drag which is all important.

The MRP G5 looks a good alternative as uses a jockey wheel, but is it actually any better? 

Also seen a few people are using either cascade of MRP SXg devices which other than a lack of chain wrap seem like good options for reduced drag.


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## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

sean44 said:


> Has anyone experimented with different chain guides? The ethirteen device is noisy and when the lower roller is removed seems to reduce drag which is all important.
> 
> The MRP G5 looks a good alternative as uses a jockey wheel, but is it actually any better?
> 
> Also seen a few people are using either cascade of MRP SXg devices which other than a lack of chain wrap seem like good options for reduced drag.


I used the SXg for a while on my Druid. It was definitely less noisy, but I am not sure about less drag or friction. On pedally rides I really wasn’t able to notice much difference in needed energy to get up the mountain. I ended up going back to the original e13 lower chain guide, as it is providing more secure chain retention than the SXg. 


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Some Facebook users report that the dreadnought has bearing issues.

Do you guys know about it? 

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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Picard said:


> Some Facebook users report that the dreadnought has bearing issues.
> 
> Do you guys know about it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


I've had mine for well over a year (Mar '21) and plenty of wet Shore riding in that time, even some snowy winter runs as well since I ride year round. No bearing issues to date. 

My (now resolved) issues were with the bolt holding the two linkages together loosening up, and the rear shock eyelet bushing developing play in 8-9mo. 
I've added some blue loctite to the link bolt and that's fine now, also moved to a Fox bearing setup vs just a bushing for longer life on the rearward shock mount. 

Life is good on the Dread!


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

I've been riding my Dread for a year with no bearing issues. It's been through snowy Downieville, damp trails in Tahoe with plenty of stream crossings. Even plenty of gentle bike washes, no bearing issues. 

I took off the stock tensioner and bash guard. Replaced it with the Cascade. Definitely less drag. The lower plastic bit is made out of Dupont Delrin and it has been amazing. It has resisted BB rock strikes really well. It hasn't broke or bent and is still perfectly a millimeter or two from the chain as it was new. Out of curiosity, by hand I tried to take the chain off from the Cascade guide, I could not. Without breaking a link, I think it is impossible. 

Although, I've been having issues on big landings where my chain would jump from a higher cassette cog to a lower cog. I double checked the chain length and it is correct. I'm wondering if reinstalling the original E-thirteen tensioner would fix this.

I'm also running the Druid B1 Link with the Ziggy on the Dread. It's been pure pleasure!


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

From Pinkbike today... the big boi


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

That looks so robust. Hoping it delivers for the team!


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## -C- (Oct 26, 2006)

Picard said:


> Some Facebook users report that the dreadnought has bearing issues.
> 
> Do you guys know about it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Bearing issues in my case that the 2 in the linkage are toast every few months in the UK.

Easy to tell as it makes the bike feel like it’s got bushing play, but also a pain in the ass to swap.

Also generates a fair bit of noise from that area, especially in our climate, which can be bone dry & dusty and also pretty grim levels of rain/mud. Bike gets used in all conditions.


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## Dingleberrry (Apr 1, 2021)

-C- said:


> Bearing issues in my case that the 2 in the linkage are toast every few months in the UK.
> 
> Easy to tell as it makes the bike feel like it’s got bushing play, but also a pain in the ass to swap.
> 
> Also generates a fair bit of noise from that area, especially in our climate, which can be bone dry & dusty and also pretty grim levels of rain/mud. Bike gets used in all conditions.


I wonder if you could run those solid lube bearings bought straight from Enduro. Expensive first time but then you’d presumably get more life out of them. Are bearings failing from load? Or from grit getting in, lube expelled etc


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## -C- (Oct 26, 2006)

Dingleberrry said:


> I wonder if you could run those solid lube bearings bought straight from Enduro. Expensive first time but then you’d presumably get more life out of them. Are bearings failing from load? Or from grit getting in, lube expelled etc


Don’t know about alternatives, thankfully they are usually available from Forbidden directly so I just have a spare set kicking around. Although they are a pain to swap out, as you need to strip most of the back end down.

I’m not an engineer, but I would say they are probably failing because they are too small, & the linkage design seems to put a lot of load through them & they are in the zone of getting a lot of wheel spray Into an area which isn’t very well sealed.

Short answer, IMO it’s not a very good design. Which is fine if you ride somewhere predominantly dry, unfortunately I wouldn’t ride my bike much if that was the case in the UK


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## JKinger (Oct 19, 2021)

Picard said:


> Some Facebook users report that the dreadnought has bearing issues.
> 
> Do you guys know about it?


I developed a knocking sound from my Ziggy linkage.. it was a bit loose, cleaned, lubed, thread lock and torqued. 
All good.

while I was trying to track down the noise I noticed my main pivot bearing on the drive side was pretty dry and clicky sounding. 
I cleaned it and re-packed it. 
it’s definitely worth doing a maintenance check every few months.

I’m moving to a WeAreOne Arrival - so this Med frame is for sale on Pinkbike.


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## Dingleberrry (Apr 1, 2021)

JKinger said:


> I developed a knocking sound from my Ziggy linkage.. it was a bit loose, cleaned, lubed, thread lock and torqued.
> All good.
> 
> while I was trying to track down the noise I noticed my main pivot bearing on the drive side was pretty dry and clicky sounding.
> ...


That’s exciting - you found a unicorn and captured it! Curious as to how it will be.


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## JKinger (Oct 19, 2021)

Dingleberrry said:


> That’s exciting - you found a unicorn and captured it! Curious as to how it will be.


So am I 
I think it will be the perfect bike for this area of the World. 
British Columbia / Washington

Anyway, the Dreadnought is a great bike but I’m just not getting to the bike parks as often as I thought I would.


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## kcw72 (May 20, 2018)

Any have any intel in new dreadnaught frame colourways that are supposedly coming very soon ? My local distributor said they were likely but he couldn’t give any details.. curious !!


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

Anyone has done custom wraps to change the pink color on their Deep Space frame? It's just a bit too much pink for me, it looks a little too busy. I'd like to maybe try to remove or change the color of the pink lines on the chainstay using custom wrap. Maybe black...maybe blue? Anyone has pictures? I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures or videoof a Deep Space frame with black lines, but can't find it rn.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Haven't seen this posted on here. I stumbled on this on Cascade's site, it does not show up under the Forbidden options for some reason. Hard verification of suspension travel, progression, etc: 









Forbidden Link C1 | US | Cascade Components
 

For both the Druid and Dreadnought this link adds a significant amount of progression.




cascadecomponents.bike


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## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

eliemath said:


> Anyone has done custom wraps to change the pink color on their Deep Space frame? It's just a bit too much pink for me, it looks a little too busy. I'd like to maybe try to remove or change the color of the pink lines on the chainstay using custom wrap. Maybe black...maybe blue? Anyone has pictures? I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures or videoof a Deep Space frame with black lines, but can't find it rn.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

rpearce1475 said:


> Haven't seen this posted on here. I stumbled on this on Cascade's site, it does not show up under the Forbidden options for some reason. Hard verification of suspension travel, progression, etc:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I certainly like the idea of 168mm of travel, but the less efficient climbing and lack of warranty from Forbidden put me off. I wonder if they're ever going to release their own link?


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

Is this yours? If not, can I ask where you got it from? Id love to ask a few questions to the owner. Cheers!


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## eliemath (Aug 27, 2021)

Is this yours? If not, can I ask where you got it from? Id love to ask a few questions to the owner. Cheers!


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## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

eliemath said:


> Is this yours? If not, can I ask where you got it from? Id love to ask a few questions to the owner. Cheers!


This is my bike. The pink was too much for me also. I got the stickers from Richard Scott Designs in the UK. The Dreadnought part of the sticker for the top tube did not fit correctly. For me it didn't matter because the gray I choose is very close to the gray on the bike so I didn't use it or the 154. 

I installed 3M VViViD protection film over the stickers. This was the first time installing a protection film and it didn't turn out very good. Mainly lack of experience on my part. A lot of air got trapped in between the three stripes and the letters with closed sections.

The stickers shipped right away however it took almost three week to get to me. Five days in the port leaving the UK and five days in the port into the US.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

why do some people consider high pivot bike ride like walking in sand? Do they mean high pivot bikes react too slow?


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## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Picard said:


> why do some people consider high pivot bike ride like walking in sand? Do they mean high pivot bikes react too slow?


Maybe due to the lack of poppyness and more stuck to the ground feeling of the HSP design? I can only speak for the Druid as that’s what I have and yes you can get it to pop, but it takes a more active effort. As a comparison, recently I rode a Nukeproof Giga 275 for a few months and that bike was very poppy naturally and eager to get off the ground despite its 180mm of travel. Great bike…in hindsight lots of regrets that I sold it. That said, I love my Druid…rails in the turns and corners like no other bike I have tried over the years.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Why does my push 11 feels jaring over rocks? 

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Picard said:


> Why does my push 11 feels jaring over rocks?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


That's pretty vague. 

Dial in sag using spring rate. 

Then rebound so the shock recovers in time for the next impact. 

Generally experiencing harshness over sharp impacts suggests that you have the HSC turned in to much. 

On the other hand too much HSR or LSC can have the same effect. If the basics aren't right then the standard fix might not work. 

Always start with sag/ spring rate, then rebound, then compression. 

GL

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Suns_PSD said:


> That's pretty vague.
> 
> Dial in sag using spring rate.
> 
> ...


I set up HSC for soft all the time. 

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Which dial is the HSC? I thought that I set up it correctly. I guess that I was wring

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I can't reach the rebound dial when shock is tucked into the frame.

How do I get my fingers into the frame? 

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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

If you're running the current Fox X2 then you'll have to remove the rear bolt from the shock. It's a PITA to be open with you. 

Apparently it is possible to get a long thin Allen key in there but the space is limited and scratching the frame is likely.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Does cascade chain guide reduce drag? 

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## SpendTimeBehindBars (Sep 19, 2021)

Yup, it's immediately noticeable. Have had it for a few months now and haven't skipped a chain once. Almost justifies the price 



Picard said:


> Does cascade chain guide reduce drag?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I saw pinkbike post that mentioned the dreadnought team bike was increased to 180mm.
I wonder how did they do it. 

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Cascade components just released the dreadnought C1 linkage on the website.

It supposed to increase clearance for shock

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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

Picard said:


> I saw pinkbike post that mentioned the dreadnought team bike was increased to 180mm.
> I wonder how did they do it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


Would like to know more about this as well. Anything closer to 180mm would have me looking to replace my SX.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

ATXZJ said:


> Would like to know more about this as well. Anything closer to 180mm would have me looking to replace my SX.


you still need the adapter made by Pinner components. this adapter would raise clearance of coil shock up 20mm.


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## pnguyen3 (Jul 20, 2021)

I recently had a freak accident on the Cannell Plunge. A small branch kicked up & somehow found itself between my rear brake line and frame. 

Instantly, I lost my rear brake. 

Any ideas how to protect this area?


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## Dingleberrry (Apr 1, 2021)

pnguyen3 said:


> I recently had a freak accident on the Cannell Plunge. A small branch kicked up & somehow found itself between my rear brake line and frame.
> 
> Instantly, I lost my rear brake.
> 
> ...


you could loosely attach it and pull towards the seat mast area? Run it through a zip tie, zip tied to the frame? Kinda ugly but some security.
Pretty rare occurrence I’d imagine but sucks you’re the Guinea pig.


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## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Cheers Dreadnought owners. Been riding my Druid for last 3 seasons. Am 5 foot 7 and started out with medium but then Upgraded front triangle to a large, bumped up fork to 160 and added head angle reducer, resulting in 64 head angle, as i wanted to turn it from trail to AM bike and that’s exactly what I got. Am now realizing in essence I morphed my Druid into a medium Dreadnought in terms of geo except for the travel numbers. Am now seriously considering medium Dreadnought as heavy terrain and park bike as I am a big fan of the Forbidden suspension design/geo. BUT, would want to add cascade link as I don’t feel 152 rear travel is where I would want my heavy terrain bike to be. Those of you who have it, did you feel the cascade link added more capability/safety cushion?


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## Dingleberrry (Apr 1, 2021)

SpendTimeBehindBars said:


> Yup, it's immediately noticeable. Have had it for a few months now and haven't skipped a chain once. Almost justifies the price


Any idea how their guide is different from the mrp sxg 2-bolt guide?


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Picard said:


> I saw pinkbike post that mentioned the dreadnought team bike was increased to 180mm.
> I wonder how did they do it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


If you think of the rocker link as two lever arms, you basically have three parameters to tweak; the angle between the lever arms, and the length of each arm. This is a gross oversimplification, but to a large extent, the length of the top arm dictates the leverage rate, amount of travel and therefor the progression. The length of the lower arm mostly affects the wheel position (BB height) and to a lesser extent leverage and travel. If you look back some pages, I share a little data about my modeling experiments. IIRC, I modeled a rocker that gave me ~175mm of actual vertical travel (more in Forbidden units) ~2.7:1 initial leverage rate and ~30% progression. I offered to share my data with Cascade but they weren't interested.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

😏 Just in time for the end of park season...


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

Still trying to figure out how to quiet the rear brake cable going through my bike. I went through the effort of fully sleeving it in Jagwire foam but it still makes a super loud noise slapping the top tube while riding. Wondering if you guys have any other recommendations. I try not to be too picky about noises on a bike because it is a mechanical machine but this sound is sooo loud and makes the bike sound broken.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

djbutcher13 said:


> Still trying to figure out how to quiet the rear brake cable going through my bike. I went through the effort of fully sleeving it in Jagwire foam but it still makes a super loud noise slapping the top tube while riding. Wondering if you guys have any other recommendations. I try not to be too picky about noises on a bike because it is a mechanical machine but this sound is sooo loud and makes the bike sound broken.


I am sure you did this, but the only way I've found to get this right on mine is to tighten the rear clamp and then pull the brake cable tightly at the front port and then tighten down that clamp. I've had no issues with noise that way.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

CHWK said:


> I am sure you did this, but the only way I've found to get this right on mine is to tighten the rear clamp and then pull the brake cable tightly at the front port and then tighten down that clamp. I've had no issues with noise that way.


I didn't. I actually don't even have the cable covers on because the path molded into the little plastic part was so much different than the natural path of my brake line that i couldn't get it to close. I will try again though. I see how that would work.


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

djbutcher13 said:


> I didn't. I actually don't even have the cable covers on because the path molded into the little plastic part was so much different than the natural path of my brake line that i couldn't get it to close. I will try again though. I see how that would work.


Yea if you don't even have those on there there is nothing putting any tension on them to keep them moving inside the frame. They're a tight fit regardless but you just need to work it and it'll go on.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

CHWK said:


> 😏 Just in time for the end of park season...
> 
> View attachment 2002106



That looks absolutely sick! I checked but probably not well enough, did you paint the frame white?

Looks like you're running the stanchions pretty far up in the crown. What travel and A2C are you running?

Thanks!


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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

ATXZJ said:


> That looks absolutely sick! I checked but probably not well enough, did you paint the frame white?
> 
> Looks like you're running the stanchions pretty far up in the crown. What travel and A2C are you running?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, I had it painted awhile ago by Fresh Paints in Whistler. The stanchions look far up because I am running the drop crown which is meant for shorter head tubes. They're at the correct 165mm from top of lower crown. I have a 190mm air spring in there which is the same as the forbidden WC DH guys were running on their Dreadnoughts.


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## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

CHWK said:


> Yes, I had it painted awhile ago by Fresh Paints in Whistler. The stanchions look far up because I am running the drop crown which is meant for shorter head tubes. They're at the correct 165mm from top of lower crown. I have a 190mm air spring in there which is the same as the forbidden WC DH guys were running on their Dreadnoughts.


Ah, that makes sense now. Looks great and thanks again!


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

CHWK said:


> Yes, I had it painted awhile ago by Fresh Paints in Whistler. The stanchions look far up because I am running the drop crown which is meant for shorter head tubes. They're at the correct 165mm from top of lower crown. I have a 190mm air spring in there which is the same as the forbidden WC DH guys were running on their Dreadnoughts.


baus


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Did you guys see the new DH bike? It looks sexy 

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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Picard said:


> Did you guys see the new DH bike? It looks sexy
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


Saw it in person for the first time on Saturday. Looks pretty nice. Not certain it's anything i'll ever need in my life. The Dreadnought with a dual crown is about as good as it gets for an average rider like myself in the park.


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## DrivenDriver (May 24, 2021)

hi,

i have a good offer for a dreadnought frame. Would you recommend the frame itself? What changes would be needed to get this bike really good like cascade link rear shock etc.

I also have a Norco Range insight. Which is favored? Any comparisons?

Cheers


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Dreadnought is easy to turn and lighter than norco range even with coil shock. 

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## DrivenDriver (May 24, 2021)

So in comparison i wonder if i get all the nice changes like cascade link, cascade chainguide and the good idlers out there it will probably climb better then the range or the same way and will be good on the downs.
What about manufacturing issues. On the range the bearings aren*t holding up good. A friend has one, he already has to change them unfortunately.


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## AKRCD47 (Sep 5, 2019)

Considering a medium Dreadnaught to Replace my Specialized Enduro, had a Druid few years ago and was amazing on the DH. How does the Dreadnaught Climb Compared to an enduro?


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## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

AKRCD47 said:


> Considering a medium Dreadnaught to Replace my Specialized Enduro, had a Druid few years ago and was amazing on the DH. How does the Dreadnaught Climb Compared to an enduro?


Don't know how the Dreadnought compares to the Enduro, but want to add a big bike to complement my Druid and am torn between Dreadnought with Cascade link and Nukeproof Giga 290. Having ridden a Giga 275 for a short period, my armchair conjecture is the Giga will be more poppy, more fun to jump and slightly easier to maneuver than the Dread and the Dread will be more stable and planted at high speed and rocky bumpy bits.The Dread can be very easily converted to mullet, so there's that. Dangit, can't make up my mind.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Dreadnought is hard to jump. It isn't poppy at all. It sticks to the ground like glue. 

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## CHWK (Oct 9, 2020)

Picard said:


> Dreadnought is hard to jump. It isn't poppy at all. It sticks to the ground like glue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


This is not what I have found. It jumps just as well as any other bike I've taken into a bike park on the big stuff. Maybe it's you?


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

CHWK said:


> This is not what I have found. It jumps just as well as any other bike I've taken into a bike park on the big stuff. Maybe it's you?


Asians can't jump? 

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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

anyone here talk to how they measured their sag if they are running a coil on the dread? cant see an easy way to do it...


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

onawave said:


> anyone here talk to how they measured their sag if they are running a coil on the dread? cant see an easy way to do it...


If you want to get really accurate, push up the bottom out bumper using it to measure sag. Use your favorite way to set sag (seated, attack position, etc) Then pull the rear shock, remove the coil and measure from the top of the bumper to the seal.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

just another question on anyone who has the push coil. have you downsized to get it more supple? im an 85kg rider - riding a 400 pound push coil


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

onawave said:


> just another question on anyone who has the push coil. have you downsized to get it more supple? im an 85kg rider - riding a 400 pound push coil


I threw an SLS coil on my Push shock but at least when I bought my 11.6 it wasn't the coil making it too firm, the valving didn't have the range to allow me to set it up to let it be supple. I had to send it back a few times.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

A very colorful 79 degree November day here in New England.


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## LukeD (Sep 18, 2005)

Hey everyone, I've been looking at dreadnoughts for awhile now but am interested into what would need to be done in order to bump the travel up. I've read through this whole thread and haven't really seen a definitive answer to this. I'm looking to downsize my quiver of bikes and would like 1 bike for racing enduro and DH. I've seen it done and know people who have done it with transition spires, evil wreckonings, gt forces, norco ranges etc. I'm coming from an Evil Insurgent V1, so I'm looking to change things up a bit.

Here's what I gather so far:

• Increasing the travel to 180mm is size dependent. I would be on a large, so that's less of a concern.
• A cascade link increases travel to 165mm (29er), 161mm (ziggy).
• Supposedly there's a facebook group where someone that has actually done this modification explains the parts needed. I don't have facebook and am not really looking to sign up.
• I have read that there need to be modifications to the ziggy link.
• I have also read that it needs a longer shock.

Does anyone have any definitive answers to this? Maybe someone can copy and paste that post? (which may or may not exist on FB)

side note... I may or may not have missed something while reading through this thread and the one on PB... sorry if I did! I have a 4 month old over here, so maybe I'm dreaming some of this up with all the sleep deprivation.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

LukeD said:


> Hey everyone, I've been looking at dreadnoughts for awhile now but am interested into what would need to be done in order to bump the travel up. I've read through this whole thread and haven't really seen a definitive answer to this. I'm looking to downsize my quiver of bikes and would like 1 bike for racing enduro and DH. I've seen it done and know people who have done it with transition spires, evil wreckonings, gt forces, norco ranges etc. I'm coming from an Evil Insurgent V1, so I'm looking to change things up a bit.
> 
> Here's what I gather so far:
> 
> ...


I don't believe there's a rocker available that will allow you to increase the travel to 180mm. If you search my username in this thread, you'll find a lot of information about increasing the travel with the cascade rocker (it's really a rocker, not a link), what it does, the effects from using the ziggy or standard links etc. I went as far as to design a rocker and modeled it in SolidWorks with the intent of making them, but I've been wrapped up in a slow moving family tragedy for the better part of the past year so bike stuff has really fallen off. At this point, the Dread has been around long enough that I wouldn't be surprised to see changes rolling out in the next year or so and I'm hesitant to invest any more time and money into the rocker project, especially considering that people seem to be perfectly happy with the Cascade, even though it's not really optimized IMO for the Dread.


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## Oznought (2 mo ago)

Hi All

Just a public service announcement. I have a Large Dreadnought, came with a Float X2 on it and I didn’t really like it so I swapped over to a coil. I had taken the shock in & out previously for various reasons but when I was installing the coil shock I jumped on Forbiddens website to get torques for linkages etc.
Anyway, found some info in their manuals that contradicted each other. One of their torque charts has the shock bolts as 10nm and instructions in another manual has them at 14nm. I emailed Forbidden with screenshots and they’ve put a ticket in to correct it and they’ve also informed me that 14nm is the correct value.


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## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Oznought said:


> Hi All
> 
> Just a public service announcement. I have a Large Dreadnought, came with a Float X2 on it and I didn’t really like it so I swapped over to a coil. I had taken the shock in & out previously for various reasons but when I was installing the coil shock I jumped on Forbiddens website to get torques for linkages etc.
> Anyway, found some info in their manuals that contradicted each other. One of their torque charts has the shock bolts as 10nm and instructions in another manual has them at 14nm. I emailed Forbidden with screenshots and they’ve put a ticket in to correct it and they’ve also informed me that 14nm is the correct value.


Yep, exact same thing happened for the Druid, though I believe they did update this on the newest revision of their tech document.

How do you like the coil on the Dreadnought? Notable improvement over the X2 and which coil shock did you choose?


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## Oznought (2 mo ago)

fizzywater said:


> How do you like the coil on the Dreadnought? Notable improvement over the X2 and which coil shock did you choose?


Got the ‘23 Super Deluxe ultimate. I’m waiting on a 450lb spring for it. Went for a ride on a 550 which was far too stiff but still preferred that over the X2. Should be a good thing once the spring rate is sorted. Going to be a different bike I reckon.


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## ThomG (6 mo ago)

Here's mine from when it was brand new!


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## csm024 (Jul 1, 2011)

Does anyone know if a rockshox superdeluxe coil will fit with the cascade link on a dreadnought? Thanks.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

csm024 said:


> Does anyone know if a rockshox superdeluxe coil will fit with the cascade link on a dreadnought? Thanks.


 "Our recommendation for those that are interested in running a coil would be and EXT with this bit made by Pinner Machine Shop up in whistler. The DHX2 with an SLS spring is good up to a spring rate of 550lbs/in. All other coil shocks are not verified. "

I run a DHX2 with 550 sls spring on my druid with the C1 link (same clearance as a Dread) and it just barely clears. The new rockshox coils have larger OD on the coil as I understand so probably no go.


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## csm024 (Jul 1, 2011)

rpearce1475 said:


> "Our recommendation for those that are interested in running a coil would be and EXT with this bit made by Pinner Machine Shop up in whistler. The DHX2 with an SLS spring is good up to a spring rate of 550lbs/in. All other coil shocks are not verified. "
> 
> I run a DHX2 with 550 sls spring on my druid with the C1 link (same clearance as a Dread) and it just barely clears. The new rockshox coils have larger OD on the coil as I understand so probably no go.


Got it. Too bad. Thanks for the response.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

hi all. just thought id update here quickly.

went and saw at "professional" mtb suspension setup guru. ex pro, sponsored - now runs his own high end servicing shop.

im riding a dread, and weigh 83kg. when i bought it i had a 400 push coil. after a lot of experimenting, ive gone down to 375 and havce opened the coil right up. as in fully open. the difference is amazing.


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## Oznought (2 mo ago)

onawave said:


> hi all. just thought id update here quickly.
> 
> went and saw at "professional" mtb suspension setup guru. ex pro, sponsored - now runs his own high end servicing shop.
> 
> ...


What sag does this give you? I’ve recently put on a Super Deluxe coil and have been trying to figure out spring rates.

I’m 95kg, was aiming for the Forbidden recommended sag of 30-35% and ended up all the way down at a 350lb spring?? Still sits about 30%

Been getting so confused reading all kinds of different rider weights and spring combos.


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Oznought said:


> What sag does this give you? I’ve recently put on a Super Deluxe coil and have been trying to figure out spring rates.
> 
> I’m 95kg, was aiming for the Forbidden recommended sag of 30-35% and ended up all the way down at a 350lb spring?? Still sits about 30%
> 
> Been getting so confused reading all kinds of different rider weights and spring combos.


roughly in this range. id definitely recommend getting your bike set up if possible. the 3-hour setup experience really opened my eyes on how to do all of this under a way more experienced set of eyes.


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## Dangals (13 d ago)

onawave said:


> went and saw at "professional" mtb suspension setup guru. ex pro, sponsored - now runs his own high end servicing shop.


Very interested to know who you went to for this - been tinkering with my Dread and think it is in an ok spot but would be very tempted to go through a proper setup with a pro. 

Are you able to let me know who did this for you?


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## onawave (Jan 4, 2019)

Dangals said:


> Very interested to know who you went to for this - been tinkering with my Dread and think it is in an ok spot but would be very tempted to go through a proper setup with a pro.
> 
> Are you able to let me know who did this for you?


travis from mtb suspension works. has made a world of difference


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