# Reflective Wheel Stripe Stickers



## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

JoeG posted these over in fatbikes and I thought the commuters would like them. Reflective wheel stripes (rim stickers) in various colors and compatible with disc or rim brakes.

Reflective Bicycle Wheel Stripes | Fiks:Reflective

Have you tried them? Apologies if I missed them here already.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Those are cool, but I think I'd probably go insane trying to get them lined up just-right. I use trailer tape that I've cut into squares, and even those are tricky to apply because of the wonky profile of the rims that I've got.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

interesting. 

they look like they might be more reflective than my Velocity rims but my tires have reflective sidewalls already.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

My commuting wheels are open pros with disc hubs, so they have the tall unused brake tracks as a good place for tape like that. 

But I'm not quite sure how well the tape would fit various rim sidewall angles and maintain the right curvature.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

The trick, as [I think] someone in the lights and night riding forum posted, is that the stickers will only give you the illusion of movement if _part_ of the rim is taped. I think it was finally settled on that half of the rim or 60 degrees of sticker, 60 degrees of rim would give the best illusion of movement, versus looking unmoving if the entire rim is taped.

That said, looks like good stuff. You can also get rolls of reflective tape from fishing tackle shops that cater to the DiY crowd; they use it for taping homemade lures (and the stuff has to be good--it has to work underwater, after all).


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## bikeCOLORADO (Sep 4, 2003)

Amazon.com: Vittoria Randonneur Cross/Hybrid Bicycle Tire - Wire Bead - Black/Reflective: Sports & Outdoors

I like them on the sidewall.


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

I like my lightweights for wheels, but I'd like to try the rim stripes. I agree with newfangled though, looks tricky to install to OCD level


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Nice new Troll there


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

If you have Deep Vees or rims with enough area (see page to figure it out):

rimSkin FAQ - Customize Your Bike Wheels With Glow in the Dark, Reflective & Specialty rimSkins

Remember that a return path to the driver is needed for any reflector to be effective. In practice my video camera says that happens when you are about 1 second away from being dead in front of a cross traffic vehicle. Better late than never. More a defense in depth with good bike lights.

However a phosphorescent tape is an active light and can be seen sooner. So they have the GLO skins. And fork mounted Frog lights to activate them.

BrianMc


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## bikeCOLORADO (Sep 4, 2003)

rimSkins look pretty awesome.


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## jseko (Jan 25, 2011)

Does this do something different than tires with reflective sidewall?


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^^ The reflective ones, no. Other than adding more area.

The GLO ones? Yes. The emit light. So should be visible before the car's light beams can bounce back to the driver's retinas. 

I was interested in these before and after the scare, the price was OK's so I can compare the errand bike with 38 mm tires and reflective stripes compared to The Duchess and GLO rims. It was time to try the new camera on my current set up riding to and from the camera anyway.

BrianMc


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

Those are interesting. I'll take a wild guess that it's basic glass-bead type tape, which isn't as reflective as microprismatic stuff you'd use on, say, a semi trailer. Still far better than nothing, however.

For those building a new wheel from scratch, you could also paint the whole rim with reflective spray paint, there's some called "Reflect-All" on Ebay I'd like to try. For rim brakes, obviously you'd want to mask the brake tracks first. Or if the rim has no eyelets, you could get 3M Scotchlite vinyl glass-bead tape and tape the rim, then punch out the spoke holes. The vinyl glass-bead tape has enough stretch that it would probably work out, unlike the metalized microprismatic, which doesn't take well to stretching.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*rimskins!*

I have the rimskins front and rear. They work great.

I have rim brakes. I measured the distance from the machined rim to the spoke nipple, emailed that info with a web photo of my rims and rimskins cut me perfect skins. they cut them round, easy to fit.

The photos below were taken at dusk with no lights shining on them. They are bright when hit by headlights, and are a great addtion to the reflective sidewalls. Plus they look sweet.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^^ Nice! I have GLO ones due in a couple of weeks. Photos and video then.

BrianMc


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Good info, CJohnson, thanks. They look good too. So in the second photo, I guess the rear wheel must have caught the flash more, either because of the distance or angle, since it shows up more reflect-y? Interested to see Brian's glo ones too.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*regarding light weights and installing rim skins*

I also have the light weights and attached them in an arrow shape. Catches the eye at night.
Photos below of stationary and spinning wheel.

Rimskins have an installation video on their site. The skins adapt to rim shape and are easy to install for the OCD crowd. The white have stuck perfectly, the blue slightly stopped sticking where rim decal/graphics were. Easy fix by slide a toothpick dipped in goo under the skin. Good as new.

If I were to do this again I'd put a hair dry onto the rim decal and peel them off. The rimskins have been sticking great in single digit temps and triple digit temps.

When friends see me at night, they say I "pop" and "very bright."


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Update: My week before Christmas order got held up by demand for the GLO tape. The supplier had to make more of the GLO material for them. So if they make a few cents on each, they are doing OK. Not bad for a start up. They should be here in a week or two. I hope for weather suitable for videos both with and without street lighting. I will also test out their GLO Lite accent pack and reflective rim tapes. 

I hope when it warms to get the baseline videos. More when I know more.

BrianMc


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Brian, I meant to ask this awhile ago, but do you have any other glowing stuff? Does it actually work?

I'd think that the intensity of phosphorescence would have to be teeny-tiny compared to ambient headlights and streetlights, or to LEDs or anything reftroreflective on the bike. Does your camera even pick them up?


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Newfangled: No. The rimSkins GLO rims and kit will be a first.

1. I was intrigued when they ran a fund raising to support the GLO concept. But could not buy in
2. I did not like what video they showed. Nice in an unlit bike park but for road safety?
3. I really don't like how lame reflective stuff is for cross traffic. Is there a better option? I use kilolumens in my lights, but what about a limp home plan?
4. I suspect an angle of incidence issue with reflective material, so the trailing part of the wheel should return a seeable image to aq cross street driver sooner.
5. I thought if there is a place for this other than the bike gymnasts, it is in commuting.

Planned video:

I have not made a video of the errand bike at night with it's 2" white and red truck reflective tape on the white "panniers". This pushes side visibility with lots of surface area to see. Reflective sidewall tires, too. One decent base line to compare to. The Duchess without much reflective tape, but a ton of light, the other base line.

A repeat test of the cheap wheel lights if they can be found (the cat hid them).  So they are in the same camera settings.

I have some gold reflective decals for The Duchess (free good customer reward). Need videos of that. Don't expect too much.

These are planned when temps go up a bit. This coming weekend at the earliest. It will take a second trip after the decals.

I will have one solid reflective RimSkin and one pattered one to try (one on each wheel) courtesy of doing this work and posting it here. To bad they will have to be destroyed after their run.

I will have to see what is in the GLO kit. If it looks like the TRON ones, they may be used on the helmet or on the fenders where light wash will fire them up.

Then the GLO skins. If they work before headlight reflections, great. If they don't, I still have my fun playing with them and my $ will save all here some money and encourage the development of a brighter product. Consider it a late Christmas present to the forum. Maybe the fall made me a bit crazier. 

BrianMc


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

I'd love to be able to do the math on phosphorescence but I wouldn't know where to start. 

But it seems like there's a natural cap, where it's peak output would max out at 1 lumen (or whatever) regardless of whether you'd charged it with 10 lumens or 1000 lumens, or for 10 seconds or 10 hours.

I've just never seen anything "glow" enough to overcome any ambient light. But I'm definitely curious.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*fork lights*

The rimskin glow skins suggest using lights, that mount on the forks, aimed at the skins to keep the glow fired-up.

"Our GLO rimSkin emits a bright glow for hours after a single 10-15 minute charge under a strong light source such as sunlight, LED flashlight or (as we recommend) a UV black light. In addition, you can use the Bullfrog-RS LED charging lights. By attaching one to each side of the fork for the front and one on each side of the frame on the rear, it will shine directly on your rimSkins and charge as you ride."

scroll down. rimSkin FAQ - Customize Your Bike Wheels With Glow in the Dark, Reflective & Specialty rimSkins


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

cjohnson said:


> The rimskin glow skins suggest using lights, that mount on the forks, aimed at the skins to keep the glow fired-up. "Our GLO rimSkin emits a bright glow for hours after a single 10-15 minute charge under a strong light source...


That's where I'd love to be able to do the math. If charging for 10 minutes gives you hours of glow, then the intensity of that glow has to be a fraction of the intensity of the original light source.

If you use a 50 lumen light to charge the skin, what sort of output do you get back? It won't be 50 lumens, because 1) a lot of that charging light is just bouncing around and not going into the skin and 2) whatever the skin does absorb will be emitted slowly instead of instantaneously.

I bet it will look cool glowing in the bikerack for a few hours, but for safety purposes people would probably be better off just pointing their various charging lights outwards instead of at their rims. So I eagerly await Brian's test video.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^^ My feeling. Calculations smaculations! The proof of this GLO tape is in the seeing (video). I have the feeling if it was great they would have such video. They are sending free reflective tape to compare so their rep is not going to hurt either way. As read it the tape comes with the lights to activate them.

I wonder if more light on them is better? More video. Dang!:madman:


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

The GLO RimSkins arrived Saturday. The GLO Kits (Blue (light gray in daylight) & Green (light cream in daylight)) and reflective skins in Red, Silver, and Peacock Tail Feather pattern arrived Monday. The Bullfrog RS energizing lights shown here:



The Bullfrog RS will be available when they launch their new website. Meanwhile, I need to cobble a set of small flashlights taped to my fork and seat stays to stand in for them in the video. I set an unmounted GLO skin sheet under the breakfast bar spot lights for a few minutes (about 5) and took them into a room with draped windows in the mid afternoon, so it was dark, but far from a bathroom at midnight in a cave with no lights. No need to turn on lights to get around furniture. I sat in the adjacent room with sunlight streaming in and lights on and my eyes adjusted to that and the GLO skins showed up better than I had hoped. This is going to be interesting. I learned from almost dead batteries in Superflashes that seemingly bright up close is not necessarily so at a distance.

BrianMc

We have snow in the forecast this weekend, so I have a bit more time, I guess.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

BrianMc said:


> The GLO RimSkins arrived Saturday. The GLO Kits (Blue (light gray in daylight) & Green (light cream in daylight)) and reflective skins in Red, Silver, and Peacock Tail Feather pattern arrived Monday. The Bullfrog RS energizing lights shown here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


IME glow-in-the-dark anything is just a novelty. Far from bright enough to be a commuter visibility safety benefit. Just washes out and gets lost in the background lights.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^^ Well, reflective stuff shows up in headlights about one second before the cyclist is 'dead ahead' when using a fairly sensitive night video camera. Getting lost in the background 20-40 feet from a motorist is not as likely. In heavy traffic, you can be eclipsed but such a vehicle going by should intimidate a cross traffic driver. We aren't looking for being seen down the block. I have over 2000 lumens on the front and 600 out the back for that. It is a defense in depth concept. The question is: "Do GLO rims have a place in our arsenal in being seen a bit sooner?" Yes, they sometimes miss my lights not seeing me as a cyclist. So big rings might help.

Seems smarter that someone clarify this for commuters. I will have their reflective products to compare to that were provided without cost. We will see what we see. Or don't. So maybe I'll prove you right. 

BrianMc


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

BrianMc said:


> ^^ Well, reflective stuff shows up in headlights about one second before the cyclist is 'dead ahead' when using a fairly sensitive night video camera. Getting lost in the background 20-40 feet from a motorist is not as likely. In heavy traffic, you can be eclipsed but such a vehicle going by should intimidate a cross traffic driver. We aren't looking for being seen down the block. I have over 2000 lumens on the front and 600 out the back for that. It is a defense in depth concept. The question is: "Do GLO rims have a place in our arsenal in being seen a bit sooner?" Yes, they sometimes miss my lights not seeing me as a cyclist. So big rings might help.
> 
> Seems smarter that someone clarify this for commuters. I will have their reflective products to compare to that were provided without cost. We will see what we see. Or don't. So maybe I'll prove you right.
> 
> BrianMc


Powered illumination (lights) is almost always better.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm looking forward to the results Brian (while being very sceptical )


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*First installment*

Skeptical is good. 

OK the weather, my feeling better and the alignment of the planets coincided in me shooting some video. I don't have multiple Deep Vee wheel sets so I am forced to take several runs with the demo reflective tape before installing the Glo tape which I hope I'll be keeping. Though as more wheel weight it will have to pull its safety weight.

New laptop, new software, tired operator and we have a crude result of comparing the bare aluminum (not polished) Deep Vees (left side to the shiny prism-like rainbow reflective rims.

I aimed the 170 degree camera straight ahead. The goal is to see how far to the sides the reflective parts will show up, and how well they do in the straight ahead I am about to run a cyclist over position.

I need to rerun the errand bike with its side wall stripes to make a separate comparison video of those.

Rainbow RimSkin - YouTube

My impression is that they grab the attention more than tire stripes, but have the angle of incident issue of all reflective devices. The rear inside of each rim shows up first, as expected. Even at 10-12 mph the effect is a sort of whatthe? It might startle a driver to jump on the brakes a bit faster if they were starting up. Cheap way to get shiny aluminum rims in the day compared to the extra $70 or so to get the Deep Vee that way from the start. For a certain crowd doing stunts in a well lit park, they'd be cool.

BrianMc


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

^^Thanks for posting that. So far it doesn't make me want to run out and buy them.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for the experiment, Brian. The reflective rims are basically washed out by the glare on the pavement from the streetlights, so I'm with mtbxplorer.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

I expect the other 2 reflective samples to be about the same, maybe more circular like tire stripes, and less pulsing than the rainbows, but similar in the total effectiveness (too little too late).

I was hoping that the Deep Vee or shallower V rims would show up sooner and stronger from the rear inside which would have a better return angle sooner. What is amazing is how fast even 10-12 mph is in terms of closing the last 20 feet before being square in front of a cross street driver on the right. It is an indirect comment on the need for good front lights that will not be lost in traffic. 

The errand bike has the wheel stripes but I tested it with ghetto panniers that blocked their full effect. So I will need to repeat with no panniers. I have 2 " wide white 3M tape on the front and red on the rear of these 'panniers'. Since these are tapered poly trash cans in their former life, the tape stripes are tilted in at the bottom. This is the exact opposite of what would work best. They show when at the across the street distance where some of the light reflected has a path to the camera (driver). It looks like they might show up 20 feet sooner if not angled so badly. They light up like crazy at home so the angle thing was not apparent. Loaded with groceries I am happy with 12 mph so I don't do night grocery runs, still I may redo the tape to be more effective. Closer to the rim and with foam filler to get them vertical would be a huge improvement Reflective tape and devices remain as underwhelming as ever. Reflective parts won't hurt, but they may not help much. I don't think this is bias when I have many videos that show this lack of performance soon enough to have much effect. If I was stopped in traffic and the cross traffic was 

The real deal will be whether the Glo rims out out enough light to be seen at a distance under the street lights. Street lights reduce the contrast and amount of driver eye dilation, and is it where most traffic will occur, so it is a worst case but most common situation. If GLo tape can make it there it can make it anywhere.

The ride bys with high beams lit the high vis stuff nicely though it would be an uncommon situation for a driver on a cross street to have highs on. A not to make to ourselves that a flash of high beams might help resolve a suspected ninja cyclist. 

The no beam ride bys show how dark our bikes are to pedestrians. UFO lights floating by. I rode the errand bike with no helmet light battery. Just the dyno light up front and 2 Turbos (0ne on helmet) and a Radbot 1000 on the back. BTW a paired Radbot and Turbo on the seat stays look like one big pulsing light. Definitely more than their sum individual outputs. The Glo rims under the same no headlight situation will be very interesting.

More to come as it gets done.

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Installment 2*

The errand bike is festooned in reflective tape. With bright white trash receptacles-panniers that include 2" 3M reflective tape, I thought it would be the over-the-top control to compare reflective rim tape to.

Lessons learned:

1. Slanting surfaces like the side supports for the front rack or the sides of the 'panniers' alter the angle of return in a way that limits the usefulness.

2. Even bright white at the level of the headlights does not show up until less than a second (at 10-12 mph) from crossing in front of traffic. So much for high-vis clothing at night. Jackets don't show much and pants too late to help much.

3. Reflective stripe tires show up first as short bands of light, then as a ring about a half a second before being in front of the driver.

4. Reflective bits that are tilted down do show up when across the street, but likely a lot less bright than it they were vertical or even flared out a bit at the bottom.

For this video I used the dyno headlight only. A helmet light would help identify me as a cyclist and the pair of lights would help the bike to stand out in a background of other lights. A single rear light has that problem so I used a Turbo on the helmet, and a Turbot-Radbot pair on the seat stays. With this lighting, more reflective help would be good.

Errand Bike With Panneirs - YouTube

I will repeat without the panniers but with a helmet light to get a better assessment of the tire stripes to compare to the Rimskins.

The Duchess Rainbow Rimskin side. Note shiny effect with rainbow/oil slick color flashes. The sun was at a an angle that made more response than this. I blocked the light when I tried to catch that. This will do. Figure about 2 X as bright.



The other side for comparison:



The polished Deep Vees were twice as costly when I bought the normal aluminum ones. Judging by the prior video, I would guess they would be brighter in the headlights than the Rainbow Rimskins. The rainbows 'flash' much like the highlights in the still photo (seen when you single frame the drive by).

The next test:

Pattern (in this case, peacock tail feathers) drive side:



And solid color on the left:



Green would have been subtler. Not sure if the fire engine red would grab more attention than hi-vis green, or not. They do stand out, don't they? A bit like Flo's lipstick. 

So far, my impression is that the Glo tape doesn't have to work too hard to be more visible at night, but we will see.

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Installment 3*

Here are the red and peacock feather pattern rim skins.

Two RimSkins - YouTube

The red ones sure are bright in front of the lights. They look like they are visible about a bike length earlier in the near lane and maybe twice that on the opposite side of the 'street'. They are the brightest of anything reflective I have tested this series including the light weights and tire stripes on the errand bike. The peacock feather rimskins may be as bright as the normal rims. So in effect you can have your fancy pattern rims and not sacrifice visibility compared to an aluminum finish.

The trouble is that one or two bike lengths is not a lot of time especially at speeds over 16 mph. The good is that it is an in-your-face attention grabber once in the beams.

I kept the red on one side as the best of the reflective ones sent to me and installed the Glo rimskins on the other side:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

They even glow a bit in the sunlight. I taped two el-cheapo nine 1/4 watt flashlights to the bike to 'power' the strips (they will have a better light setup).

Here is one after being brought inside with only a few minutes in sunlight facing east with a late morning (mostly south) sun:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

They show at shallow angles, too. I doubt they will be as bright as the red reflective ones in the beams, it is looking good for them to be visible sooner. The light green goes well with the dark green metallic paint.

One more video.

BrianMc


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks again, Brian. Those red ones really do stand out - the color cuts through the visual noise in a way that none of the others did.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^^ Like red sneakers. Add a set of red tires...

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Installment 4*

I had some technical difficulties involving batteries and other things so managed to knock my lens out of alignment after having set it. So if you pretend that the work was earth shattering the tilt of Southern Indiana on the videos will be of no concern. I hope to fix that tonight but we can draw conclusions with these as they are.

The Glo tape saturates with maybe less than a second's output of the cheap flashlight. You can see hot spots that result at the beginning of the first video. That is how bright the tape can be in this formulation. Future ones might improve on this. The loss of output appears to follow a half life curve. Here is the bike about 30 minutes after the lights were turned off:



My eyes adapted better than the camera, but you can see that they are brighter than expected had they been anodized white. But not by much. So it is sort of like a Superflash on the last dregs in the batteries. Just gets dimmer and dimmer.

At a bit less than 10 mph, my wheels do 2 revolutions per second. The Glow Rimskins get a dose of photons twice a second at 10 mph, and with a 1" diameter beam, that takes a bit less than 1/77 second to traverse. So about 1/39 of a second to charge every second. Saturation appears to happen in a second or less, and would guess maybe 1/4 to 1/2 a second, maybe less. Even if 1/10, that would say i was maybe at 25% of saturation. Less if it takes longer to saturate the tape. A wider, higher output activating beam should be better. These flashlights are 9 1/4 watt LEDs, so are about 1 watt. If full output takes two 4 watt lights per wheel, that is 16 watts total when my headlamps are at about 20. A substantial battery is needed, too. No coin cells. Not cheap. Mind you, with a 2" wide lens, getting more time, 2 watts should do much the same. Four times as bright would be more competitive with the Red reflective ones in close and make the wheels pop sooner.

So how does the poorly lit up Glo Rimskins compare to the Red Reflective ones with some light on the matter?

Glo RimSkin 2 - YouTube

The punch of the red in front of the car is awesome. None of the other wheel treatments compared. Only my high vis jacket/vest when the high beams were used are close. Consider them a lighter, better balanced, and more distinctive wheel reflector. How often that would make a difference will depend on your particular riding situation. While a helmet light can be aimed to help with cross traffic, sometimes you are not looking at the sudden arrival of a car on your right.

It looks like the Glo skins show up and 1/2 to 1 second before the reflective ones are seen and stay about that much more, too. They accentuate the return from the wheels much more than tire stripes did on the Michelin City tires and better than any of the other tapes. In fact, across the street they look like polished rims. The angle at a distance cuts down on the punch, and I am not sure they stand out enough at that point with the light activation I used to be any safer. If we up the ante with 4 x the light input they might approach the punch of the red ones with more punch at a distance, too. In the day, as pointed out, the red reflective Rimskins should appear different than other traffic if that is thought to be an issue. I don't have a lot of traffic clutter, just unobservant, too-hasty drivers.

New colors are coming, and I picked green over blue (the only two at Christmas) for the fact that the eye is more sensitive to green-yellow and the bike is green.

Hope this has been useful.

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Installment 5*

The Boss was home and I got the video done with her observing. She has over a million miles of driving experience and cycled until she broke her arm. She has a vested interest in my safety and found the evaluation intriguing. With the crummy flashlights I used, it took about 2 minutes for the brightness to appear to no longer improve on my warm up laps. I will redo the video next week and repost.

Things she noted:

1. The Glo Rimskins look much brighter and are visible sooner than what the video indicates.

In part, that is because she turned her head changing the angle she saw them from (more as a driver should). They are very visible as I turned around then they disappeared when I was oncoming again, but showed sooner than she thought they would after having seen the previous videos.

2. The Glo Rimskins looked brightest bout 1/2 to 1 second away right when the Red reflective ones show up and she rated them as 7-8 in brightness with the Red reflective ones as 10 dead ahead in the low beams.

They then washed out as they passed and lost their green color and looked more like shiny rims. They appeared a bit brighter after going by when doing the near passes. She rated the output dead ahead at about 5 on the same scale.

3. With the activating lights off, the Glo skins looked brighter after going by but by the time a circuit was made they had dimmed lower than they had been.

So if enough side traffic will light them up for you, you won't need activating lights.

4. The Red reflective ones peak rapidly and are a punch in the eyes dead ahead of the car.

The video underplays their peak for a driver.

5. The Lightweights which appear in the video as some bright lines in the front wheel, are rings of light that show up at the same time as the Red rim skins and are nearly as bright.

Good bang for the buck. A present, these lightweights were the oval ones for helmets and frames and not the spoke ones, there are only six but they are longer. A full set of the shorter spoke ones would be even brighter as a ring of light. Two sets on the front wheel may be better than doing each wheel with a single set.

6. The GLo Rimskins showed up better when I was away from the lights (more contrast).

7. So The thinner tire stripes of the errand bike may also have been missed by the camera.

A professional quality camera maybe run at a slow frame rate of 16 fps instead of 30 might do the trick. This was free to you and you get what you pay for. 

BrianMc


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanks Brian (and the boss)! My impression so far is that your lights are more visible (and seen sooner) than anything on the rims so maybe that is the best place to invest. Impressed how bright the red ones are in daylight, though.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^^ Thanks Mtbxplorer. Yes the red ones are brighter than red anodized rims in the day. My guess is a radioactive green or traffic line yellow would also be good. 

Your point about investing in lights before going with Glo Rimtape is in keeping with my thoughts. The reflection of my headlights and taillights off the fenders is more apparent. Getting the Glo rims as bright as they can be may get into the 10-20 watt range for the whole bike. That is where my headlights are power-wise. The rotating mass compared to wheel lights is a lot less, but the battery weight needed to really fire them up is more even with the highest capacity Li-ion cells. So the take-home is that if you don't have decent headlights, that is the best thing to get for being seen at night. I run the headlights flashing in the daytime too, but aimed out at 45 degrees to help cross traffic see me sooner. 

I like my lights' Star Trek Warp speed stripes that the video reports, but that is not how they appear to a person. I don't have a lot of confusing vehicle and other lights to compete with, so I am not as concerned about standing out from the background at night. Hi-Vis clothing helps that in the day. Lightweights on the spokes will cover the "yes, there is a cyclist straight ahead" and "last chance to get them to stop" job done. On the right bikes, the Red ones would look cool.

I currently have a bike with red one side and the Glo tape on the other. I will apply the rest of the Glo tape. It is bought and paid for. It does shine in the day and shows best with a lowering sun. If you don't have too many buildings or trees lining the road and blocking the sun, they get a decent Glow going. Activating lights would boost that output. I like how they look with the dark green paint. Cosmetic. Maybe I'll see how bright they can be.

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Installment 6*

Revised video:

Glo RimSkin 2a - YouTube

Comments from an observer on this session posted above.

In light (pun intended) ot Mtbxplorer's comments, a daylight video of the rim tapes is in order. I need a weekend because that is a school parking lot. So a few more days with bicolor wheels.

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Final Installment?*

The Glo skins glo in the daylight subjectively more than I'd expect to see from polished deep fees and they do it at angles that reflections don't do. The red reflective ones stand out in the stills, so one last video to look at the day performance makes sense. I chose late afternoon on a cloudy day. Less light to activate the Glo tape but less light to wash them out and the reflective red should show well, too.

Daytime RimSkin - YouTube

Conclusion: they add a bit, whether enough to be worth the money is a personal decision for the riding environment you have.

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Stills from videos of best Rimskins for visibility.*

So how well do they do in the day at point blank range?



and



No lights to make the Glo tape brighter, just sun.

How about point blank at night?



and



And how about at at a distance across the street in daylight?



and



Or:



and



And how about at at a distance across the street at night?



and



Or:



and



The Glo color is seen by the human eye better that the video shows. It is unclear how much better they would show with brighter activation lights but they do show with minimal lights and in the day with no activation lights. The Glo rims show up at much wider angles than the reflective rims do. That said, a good set of head and taillights help more with the rims confirming the ufo as a cyclist.

Note about the installation. All of the sets were slightly short of making in around the rim so I had a 1/8-3/16 inch gap. There is an extra quadrant with the word 'rimskin' cut out that can provide the piece to fill in. Keeping it would allow damaged spots to be repaired. Removal of the early tapes the next day was a snap. Removal of the red ones two weeks later was not so easy but with care they pulled off in one piece. The inner edge toward the hub does not want to follow the curve of the rim toward the spokes. I will need to glue these edges as instructed.

They will help and I wonder what 4 150 lumen lights per side per wheel would do. Besiddes using a lot of battery power, that is.

So for the belt and suspender crowd, that should be enough to help you decide (provided they can fit your rims).

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Surprise visibility*

I thought this would interest anyone following this thread.

I stripped The Duchess for a charity ride and took it to raise donations. Transported in daylight, then it sat in the light of the room for two hours or so. Then it was loaded in a moderately lit parking lot and driven 44 miles home. I stopped for gas at the beginning under a bright canopy. From there most of the drive was interstate. Very little traffic. I passed some trucks and those headlights would have lit the bike up. If I had to rate the amount of such exposure on a scale of a to 10 where 10 was someone was right behind me the whole way, I would say 1. Of the four miles from the exit to home, the last 1.4 are unlit as is another 0.7 miles and the rest moderately to poorly lit. The Glo rims will glow for about 20 minutes unlit. Both the side facing the car and the back side appeared about equally bright. I assume my taillights did that. With no flash, the iPhone did not record what I saw. On flash, in brightened everything about 2 X maybe a bit more, and lit up the light weights on the front spokes, the car's plate and reflector.



Not as bright as the reflectors in the flash, but about as bright as a polished set of rims would be but emitting in 360 degrees whereas shiny rims would have a couple of bright arcs only.

So the light output from the tape has to be low, but being in our most sensitive range, in a large array (not just a point), and against a very dark background, they did way better than I expected. I expected them to appear a gray shade of their inactive cream color. Instead I went to dismount the bike and there hung twin circles of light. Ghostly.

The speed of the flash on the camera should be close to riding into a set of low beams from car headlights. So once charged up, they may be more effective even with no boosting light, than one would think for a longer period of time than one would expect, especially if they catch some light along the way. The radioactive/biohazard color is a nice touch. 

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Rimskin has apparently changed the Glo products allowing more output and more than two colors (green and blue).

Storing the bike inside on the ride with a little street light filtered through curtains kept the Glo skins visible under the low light conditions. Roommates were impressed. I was surprised they did not fade out.

BrianMc


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Or...








You have to click here to see the images "running": New Kickstarter Project Wants To Put GIFs In Your Bicycle Wheels


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

New GLO rimskins coming.

Here is a video including more reflective tape at the end.






So I see more video coming to this thread.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

RimSkins is using uv flashlights to charge the Glo rim skins.

RIM SKIN | THEAWAREWOLFS


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

EEEeeeeeeeeeeWWwwwwwwwwwwww


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Glo Rimskins Sunset 1*

Riding at sunrise or sunset with a lowering sun is a dangerous time of the day. I am surprised at how well the traffic yellow clothes show. Of course if silhouetted riding straight into the sun, you would look black if they don't have their eyes all squinted. That situation may warrant a pull off to let the sun drop enough that lights work well. There is a flash of sun off my brass front fender approaching the car but the angles have to be just right to get that. I get the impression that the fender tops show as arcs a bit riding away and moving to the left.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Glo Rimskins Sunset 2*

The activated rims look much brighter in person. This might be our eyes sensitivity to green light as compared to the camera's. The side with the normal flashlights was noticeably less bright on the bike. That is the side to that camera when I go to the right (closer to the camera as I go by the car). The camera says it is brighter. Distance? The newer (front) Rimskin on the right side (closest to the car) seems about the same as the rear one to me. The wheels seem more apparent as the bike goes up and away to the left. Very subtle and with cars around,likely obscured. But the moving ovals might catch more attention than how they show if that green is picked up better that is is by the camera.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Glo Rimskins Sunset 3*

So I add my headlights at 45 degrees and on the lower power setting I have easily accessible (they can be backed down to glowing embers if I want), and just the HotShot in back. In no run did I turn on the PB Turbo on the helmet. The 45 degree shines right in the camera lens at a nice distance away exactly as intended under daytime conditions to catch the eye of cross traffic. The narrow beam rear light does not show until I turn enough and am far enough away that the beam is wide enough to cover the camera position.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Glo Rimskins Sunset 4*

The last runs have the headlights on full power and the helmet light on full power and a second run with the headlights forward and me looking at the camera as if trying to get the attention of a driver.






My conclusion is that under lowering light of sunrises and sunsets, the Glo Rimskins are not a big help. I don't see a lot of difference between the new and old ones. So I am guessing that the back order at Christmas gave me the newer version. In bright sunlight, they glow more than I'd expect the polished aluminum to do. So they may be worth their weight then. The jury is out as to whether they will take more UV input to be brighter. The Tron look shows up well under street lights fairly well with no extra activation lights so there will be some who like that look. They won't hurt being seen, but they don't help overmuch IMHO.

They may own the night with a UV boost. So another chance under low light is appropriate.


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ Your flashing helmet light looks like the real star of those movies - very noticeable, even from afar.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Glo Rimskins 5 -Night*

Things I learned/relearned:

1. A single UV flashlight per wheel fully 'charges' the rimskin.
2. No discernable difference between 'old' and 'new' Glo Rimskins.
3. A single 9 LED cheap flashlight is not adequate - you can see blobs on wheels caused by being stationary or nearly so, then riding until the hot spots radiated away (right side only). 
4. If there is a 'line of sight' to the rims (angles to either side) they show up 500 feet plus. 
5. All reflective stuff showed up in the car headlight's 'cone of reflection', invisible until then.
6. Residual rim light from indoors with no street lights to recharge a bit makes the Glo rimskin tape the same as a reflective tape.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

[VIDEOasily adapted to different wheels (though Rimskin will custom cut) might be available through NoriLights:


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Mixed messages*

In another thread someone wondered whether a rim pattern might be more helpful to a motorist seeing a bike as a bike.

To that end, I removed half of the older Glo tape and interspersed it with Reflective Green:

Reflective Green rimSkin - rimSkin Custom Wheel Skins

Supplied by Rimskin.

I made one wheel alternate quadrants, the other semicircles:















It will be interesting to see how that works out. It is a sort of Court Jester look.


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## Texan-n-Fla (Sep 22, 2013)

BrianMc said:


> In another thread someone wondered whether a rim pattern might be more helpful to a motorist seeing a bike as a bike.
> 
> To that end, I removed half of the older Glo tape and interspersed it with Reflective Green:
> 
> ...


Keep us updated. I, for one, am very interested to see the results. Might just seal the deal for me.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Apple upgraded the crap out of iMovie. So no quick movie output with explanations for now.

So what did I learn (and will back up with video later)?

1. That you learn how to do an experiment by doing it and a repeat to correct mistakes would be nice. 

2. That with no lights to activate the Glo rims after minimal activation by indoor lights about 10 minutes before, they do not show.

3. The dark green reflective tape on the rims seems about as bright as the red was.

4. That a driver will not see the reflective rim tape until they are at the edge to the car's beams.

5. That even without the Glo part lit up the front wheel's quadrants works better than the rear wheels semi circles.

6. One UV flashlight is defective or had bad batteries. Should have replaced them all.

7. The Nori lights will be needed for a reasonable run time (>2 hours).

8. The Glo rims on with the quadrants works great transitioning into the headlights: Reflective is bright as the Glo skin sections wash out.

9. That with the reflective/glo rims it is easier to see it is a bike and sooner (further away).

10. That mounting a flashlight to shine down your back without a mirror or partner doesn't get the job done. 

11. That the Maglite was a bit too much with light reflecting off the top tube and the thighs.

12. That the cheap flashlights were enough if aimed to light up the safety vest.

13. That if I had worn higher vis pants the smaller light would have clearly shown my pedaling thighs.

14. That the quadrants of tape look like spinning spokes from a rear quarter angle even 300 + feet away.

15. That the reflective/Glo tape combination beats a pair of spoke lights.






Excerpt Reflective Glo Video2 - YouTube

(Sorry. Only one embedded video per post.)

16. That with everything working, I looked like a Christmas tree.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Reflective & Glo Rim Tape and a "Reverse Light"*

Video compilation:






The down firing chest light lit the reflective sectors of true front wheel. Interesting.

The back firing reverse headlight (Maglite) lit the tops of the inner thighs. worked better than the Red Zone 4s on ankled to show pedaling motion. Faded blue jeans were not the best if this was a goal.

The front right UV flashlight stopped working and the 'down the back' light was misaimed so it did not make the back of the vest show. Needed a look over by a helper to get it right.

I think the quartered front works better than the semicircle rear, but I was trying to ride slow to get clearer video in the low beam of the car. Faster riders might consider quarters on one wheel and semicircles on the other to get good motion at different speeds.

The NoriLight kit with lights costs less than the wider Dee Vee Glo tape from Rimskins. I don't know how well their tapes' brightness compares.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

BrianMc said:


> [VIDEOasily adapted to different wheels (though Rimskin will custom cut) might be available through NoriLights:


I ordered the basic kit on 12-11-13, (or in Canada 11-12-13). Hoped it was in time for Christmas. Heard nothing. E-mailed 1-3-14. Got a message received note back the same day that e-mail was received. Got a reply 1-6-14 that said an e-mail on the back order status was sent and apologies for my not receiving it, that they were working to fill orders speedily, they would make sure my e-mail was on the list for future updates etc. I sent another e-mail yesterday having not heard anything else for a month, as a reply to the 1-6-14 message. I expected a one day we received your message message, but got no response. Not confidence inspiring. If I hear nothing in another day (same time as for last real response), I will contact as a new contact through the web page, and see if anyone is at home.

Be aware that this is a new start-up. Difficulties in their supply system are par for the course. Being light on support staff, ditto (one man operation ). If you order, be prepared that it may take months to receive your order. The web page: Nori Lights - Bicycle Wheel Lights - Bike Illumination System is still there, so maybe I just fell through the cracks.


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## Stark (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm using the 3M sekuclip reflectors. They are light weight, easy to install and gives great visibility.


Peace!


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ Those are an eye catcher, Stark. Haven't seen those before. Are they plastic?

BrianMc, hope you get your Nori's soon, the added light looks like a good feature.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Stark said:


> I'm using the 3M sekuclip reflectors. They are light weight, easy to install and gives great visibility.
> 
> Peace!


More information please.


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## Stark (Apr 29, 2008)

Yes, small cylinders with a slits for the spokes. The requirement are round spokes.

Google Översätt


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Doesn't look like these are available in the US then. Very cool idea, a bit bulkier than I would like, but the idea is nice. Still thinking that I will go with the lightweights in black for the black spokes. Not a huge fan of looking like I am Mr. Safety.


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## Stark (Apr 29, 2008)

Ok. The Sekuclip looks like this in daylight:


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## Stark (Apr 29, 2008)

TenSpeed said:


> ...Not a huge fan of looking like I am Mr. Safety.


I'm not thinking along those lines, because I'm using my bikes regardless of weather. Also here in the northen part of Sweden so are the period with dawn and dusk and weak light longer, I believe.
I also know how hard it can be to see a bike through the car windscreen when it's raining and the light is dim.

Peace


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Stark said:


> I'm not thinking along those lines, because I'm using my bikes regardless of weather. Also here in the northen part of Sweden so are the period with dawn and dusk and weak light longer, I believe.
> I also know how hard it can be to see a bike through the car windscreen when it's raining and the light is dim.
> 
> Peace


Thanks for the picture. By looking like Mr. Safety, I meant covering my bike in reflective tape and wearing a bright green reflective vest. Nothing wrong with that, but that is not what I want to do. I am looking for a subdued look, with as much visibility as I can get.


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## Stark (Apr 29, 2008)

Ok, I understand your point. 
I'd rather use reflective elements on the bike low down so it can be seen by a car with half-light, than a reflective west. I do like to have some reflective elements on my helmet, though.


Peace


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## Texan-n-Fla (Sep 22, 2013)

That's why I like the lights on my helmet and bike. During the day, it looks like nothing, and if I don want them on, they don't have to be. But if I do, there they are.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Update on Nori light order.

The reply to the e-mail sent by Nori in January got no response. The Web page gave me nothing by 404s for anything other than the home page. So I looked up the contact in the original funding page. No response. Last night the contract page was functioning on the web site and I got the automatic response this morning. At least the robot program aspect of the web site is functioning. I feel better. I was getting a bad feeling that I'd have to work with PayPal to get a refund. So I expect a 3 day delay until I hear from a person. Mostly this was to compare the Nori light system to the rimskins, so this is getting to be work.

I put light weights on both wheels (only visible under low light/low sun in the day, camera flash and headlights light them up). If I remember, I will try to get car lights on/off driver's seat view of them to post here.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Got a call from Chris Flynn in San Diego. The computer e-mail & order info messed up and they did not discover it until Feb 3. So they are sorting through 90 days of orders to find those that are pending. The sort of computer glitch to tear your e-hair out over as a start-up!

Should be here middle of next week.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Well, the Nori lights arrived with some extra tape to compensate for the delay. (ordered and paid for Dec 11. Delivered March 7). A spate of nice temps ahead so we may get some pics and video.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Nori Lights Basic Kit*

This is what arrived Friday:





The light units differ from the installation video. No hooks any more for rubber bands. (a la Magic Shine mounting). Instead there is now a pass though for a zip tie. The battery box does not carry the Nori Lights Logo (a nice move) and no big green switch button (another wise move). The light units appear to be 3-D printer created judging by the lines on them. One had some stray strands in the pass through that needed removal to feed the zip tie through. One light pod had a blob on the back like an ink blot and one unit was thicker than the two "normal" ones.

The mounting of the rear lights on the seat stays just cleared the Cool Stop pad on the right side of the bike. Otherwise no issues. The fork did not have similar clearance freedom. With a single 1/4" strip abutting the braking surface, the LEDs moved that high, contacted the rim. Moving the lights to center on two strips gave clearance but the front wheel needs to be very true. I need to see if I used the thinest pair up front, and if the thick ones are not on one end, trim the backside of the thick pod on the front to get more clearance. Maybe concave it to the fork blade.

The Nori tape is in either 1/4 or 1/2 " wide spool. The 1/4 inch can be applied to a 700C rim with no kinks or ridges. I have not tried the 1/2 inch to know if you need to cut it for quarters to avoid crimps.

The color of the Nori tape is indistinguishable from the Rimskin Green Glo skins under steady state of lighting level. One or two widths laid on the Rimskin can't be seen if the tapes are in steady state. If they are charging up or just after the lights are turned off, they are not in steady state. About 15 minutes after lights out, they are the same. The Nori tape seems to saturate faster (needs less light to get to max brightness). Not sure about whether the max brightness is that same, or whether the speed of getting there is faster. I will need to figure out a way to video this to make sure it isn't just me. The Nori tape definitely loses that brightness faster. That suggests they are slightly brighter or used a lot less light to get the same job done. The Nori tape seems at least as bright with the 2 LED Nori light as the Rimskin does with a 9 LED UV flashlight. It also looks like the Nori lights don't light up the Rimskins enough. That was my original thought. Add Nori lights to the Rimskins already mounted and done. Now it looks like that would require at least two possibly three sets of Nori lights. Three would need some trimming to get them stacked and shining on the Deep Vees just so. That would also be over $200 delivered. For less than that I think could mod 4 9 LED flashlights to run off my headlight battery. They would be a lot heavier, clunkier and more prone to needing adjustments. So the Nori kit has an advantage in price and performance measured as light per watt.

I rode with the UV lights on in bright sun today with Nori tape on one side of the front wheel. If they are a bit brighter than daylight alone, I don't think you could see that. No tunnels here to check them out. Last year on a cloudy/rainy day the Rimskins glowed under the overpasses in Indy. Their slower loss of output helps in that situation, thought the police escort did not have us stopped there. The Nori tape output drops off in maybe 30 seconds?

Well more when I figure out how to video it so I can get real measurements and go with what works best.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Sorry Nori*

All is not well.

The units light well. The tap glows. But mounting issues exist.

Apparently two of the light units are thicker (one was built up with a plastic glob (see second from the right in the picture) and the other two are thinner. The thin ones are intended for the fork. No labels but I figured that out when I had them mounted the wrong way round. I decided to rearrange them later. The one with the glob is as thin backed over the pass through as the two meant for the fork blade. The back of the wire tie pass-through has failed on three of the four. Had only the ones meant for the fork blades failed, I would blame this on me for putting them on the smaller diameter rear seat stays at first. Except that the one with the glob failed when mounted to the fork blade too, so it surely would have on the seat stay and the front ones would have still failed on the fork blades. So without a solid backing at the edges of the pass-thoughs (the tubes curve away from the flat back of the lights) the wire ties tore them. They were doomed from the get go.



Only the unit on the right is undamaged. It is a thicker unit with a thicker wall on the backside of the pass through and meant for the rear stay. The one to its left has a blob of plastic to make it thicker but that did not extend to the edges of the wire tie pass through, and since the edges of the pass-through were as thin as on the lights meant for the fork, and it tore, too. The pass-through on these three units is very thin (about a business card gauge). The ties had to be tight or the lights move down the fork or stays as these tubes lose diameter as they approach the dropouts. Tight ties = torn pass-throughs.

Fix: Since the fork blade is a flattened oval cross section, and the seat stays are round, there is room to add thickness to the outside edges of the backs of the lights to remove the play that allows the wire ties to break the pass-through, while reinforcing the point of failure and without moving the units toward the rims much if at all. The rears have a lot more leeway in that regard.

I have a test situation figured out but the testing is postponed while a few mods are made and the lights remounted. If these were a name brand they would go back. They are from a startup and he is doing his best. I guess I am volunteering for a bit of R & D. Still the mods of UV flashlights would weigh more, be less clean looking when mounted, and would have been even more work on my part.

Stay tuned. If this was easy....


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Four 3/4" long 1/8" Aluminum tube to reinforce the tie feed-through, JB Weld to make new backs, and smaller wire ties to fit the tubes look like a workable repair. Setting overnight. Remount tomorrow. We will see about the video. The fronts will be thicker than stock, but thinner than the rears on the front.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Brian, 
Just a thought, but maybe try a layer of two-part epoxy putty (or something like sugru) on the backs, after you've scuffed them?

It seems ideal in this scenario, being moldable to the specific shape of your components.

*edit* never mind, beat me to it.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*MacGyver Fix*

The one thicker rear light pod got an aluminum tube after a reaming but the back looked solid enough. The other rear one with the blob did not like the reaming and one side of the blob and the backside of the pass-though lifted free. So it got some JB Weld to glue it back on that side and a fill job. It is now as thick as the other. The two front ones with the tube in place had maybe 1/32 of the tube beyond where the flat back used to be. I glued them in with the epoxy and built up either side, but there is still a ridge where the lass through is. I happen to have some double sided foam tape. Figuring that the flork blade has a curved inner surface I placed two strips on either end of the front pods and will let the foam in the tape flatten over the pass-thoughs. The mild adhesive is waterproof, and should remove the need to tighten the bejeebers out of the smaller wire ties (wish they were black). The rear ones being attached to the more curved 1/2" OD seat stays got one strip of foam tape.

Here are the backsides with wire ties:



Here they are lit up.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*No Video - Nori is camera shy?*

Video problems. Well I forgot to set the camera up for low light the first run. So got an impromptu practice run.

The second attempt showed the faint glow of house light activated Rimskin Glo tape but nothing from the Nori tape confirming its faster light loss rate/higher output. But when I turned on the Nori lights, I could see the the tape just fine as much much brighter than the faint glow of the Rimskin tape but the camera saw nothing. Like the color was green screen and ignored. I am tempted to retry with the iPhone video (not very good low light) to see if it is something to do with the Drift camera.

The Nori lights seem to light up the Nori tape brighter but as close as they were to the rim on the front wheel they draw a 1/4-3/8" line, while on the seat stays they are further from the rim and lit the most os the width of the Rimskin. So with one sector Rimskin and one Nori on the front, the Nori sector was brighter, not a lot, but noticeable. But the rear seemed at least as bright, and lit up over maybe 3/4 of an inch. It looks like I need to move the front ones ahead or behind the fork and away from the rim. I did not test whether more UV light would help.

Any ideas on the video?


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Well it seems I selected then unselected low light mode on the camera. Should have rechecked that it took the new setting, I guess.

So I got some video tonight.

The front wheel has 4 sectors two with green reflective tape, one with three widths of Nori tape (3/4" total width) over Rimskin Glo Tape one circle of 1/4" goes all the way round up against the brake surface. The rear rim has one half green reflector Rimskin and one half green Glo Rimskin.

The front Nori lights are about 1/4 inch from the Rim Tape surface while the rear ones are about 3/4 of an inch away. The fronts were made about 1/16" thicker and closer to the rim than they would have been as they came. The result of the nearness to the rim on the front is about a 3/8 inch wide stripe of activated tape, that given where I set them, did not light the 1/4 band that circumnavigated the rim. The result is that the two sectors can be seen revolving when the Nori Lights are on. The Nori tape is made brighter and loses it faster on the front.

The rear, with the lights 3 x as far away, made the rear stripe about 3/4 inch wide not quite the whole width of the Deep Vee angled part but close. The rear RImskin Glo tape looks about as bright as the Nori tape in the front.

The UV flashlights have 9 1/4 watt LEDs that are not as efficient as the Nori lights and eat three AAAs pretty fast. It is hard to get the things taped on to only light the tape and not the brake surface or hit spoke nipples. So not all the light could be brought to bear. These are not suitable for more than a mock up like this. It is clear that more light helps these Glo skins shine. As Tim Taylor would say "More Power!"

Both lighting systems were equally washed out in headlights. I am surprised at the return from the gumwall tires. In person the dark green reflecting Rimskins are visible as green. The aluminum bub and brake surface, the stainless spokes with lightweights front and rear, the brass fenders all argue against black. Of course if you are positioned only about 20 feet from a bumper you best have some seped to clear the path. My impression is that the semicircle gives a better sense of motion than the two quarter circles.

Warning it is a bit like watching paint dry and the spinning wheels can be mesmerizing.


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

I saw the reflection on the house and though emergency services had arrived! Thanks for sharing.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Lane markers? I don't need no stinkin' lane markers!  White brick is pretty reflective, but even the sealed drive was acting like a mirror. A hellish glow in my wake!  It seems that the Hotshot is aimed up about 10 degrees. Doesn't look so on the bike. Goes to show how a movie. even a low res poor low light ability one like a cell phone, could help a cyclist to dial in a set of lights.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

It has been pointed out to me that the fisheye lens of POV cameras distorts things, principally by making them seem more distant, which in turn provides fewer pixels and less sensitivity. So when the camera is placed where a driver would be, it underreports how bright the rims and bike lights really are to a driver. 

While I was principally concerned with relative performance compared to UV flashlights. I had already found that a 9 LED UV flashlight fully charged the Rimskins as a second flashlight did nothing. So that was the ultimate comparison. I have the benefit of seeing the Nori lights, so know how bright they are. The video does not do them justice. There is such a thing as "good enough" even if they might be brighter. We have to decide that with our pocketbooks and lights all the time.

I also have a couple of ideas to try. So I will be back with a more representative video of these glow rims and the Nori lights.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Nori Lights revisited.*

I finally got one of those round tuit things.

I set the camera up to give the same size of bike that the driver would see in the farther lane of a 2 lane street when sitting at a stop sign. (If he actually stops.) I elected not to use car lights as the camera and I would block some of the beam, or if I had the car that close, the lights would be much brighter than in actuality, unless the driver got within 10 feet before stopping. (Yikes!) The good return from the reflective tape arcs was clear in the previous video. This video is asking how well will the bike be seen before it rides into the beams from a car to the side. Angled output was just as good, though far enough away the angle does cut off the view. I'd guess another 2 to 3 seconds of being visible before entering the headlight beams. A bike in the near lane will need to be out from the curb some or that angle will cut the chance for the rims to be seen a lot. Maybe half the distance and time.

I fashioned a mount for the fork out of a strip of brass, as the LBS had nothing suitable. I used a Planet Bike Turbo Seat Stay Mount to anchor the rear unit. So both front and rear units are 1/2 inch from the rim and the LEDs of both are vertical to cover more area of tape but not as intensely as two in line. I discovered one of the rear LEDs has about 4 X the output of the other one in that unit or the two in the front one. It would be great if they all were that bright. That explains why the rear wheel looks brighter than the front in both videos and suggests that we need more light to saturate the tape. The Rimskin Glow tape keeps the Glo longer and that was most noticed taking the bike into the house after the Nori lights were shot off. The sector that is brighter on the front wheel for a half rotation is the Nori Tape. I am not sure whether the Nori tape is slightly brighter for the first 1/4 revolution of the front wheel, or not.






Summary:

I will be changing the front to half wheel reflective and half Glo tape like the rear. I think the rotation is more obvious and it doesn't make the wheel look bent, though that might scare a driver into letting you have more room. I need to think how to test whether the Nori Light tape will absorb and release more light so be brighter for more than half of a rotation. The glowing rims say "bike" whereas my lights might confuse a driver before I am in the headlight beams. The reflective rims, fenders and other bits are very bright in the headlight beam. About 0.5 to 1 second before I would be square in front of the car about to be run over. Reflecting the beams back is a last ditch effort not to be hit.

Enjoy.


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