# Frame Project - Bamboo



## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

I am a longtime MTBR reader and I finally have a project worthy of posting on this forum. It's not a mountain bike but I think it's still worth sharing with y'all.

I just finished this bike, my first frame build, using a similar technique to Calfee Designs bamboo bikes, using bamboo tubes joined with hemp wrapped lugs. The frame is a compact geometry road frame that I built to my fit specifications. This being my first foray into frame building I totally underestimated the complexities of building a functional frame from the ground up! 

For the initial construction I used a version of the "Almost Jigless" frame building technique posted by drwelby, on instructables.com to achieve my desired frame angles and to ensure proper rear end alignment. I mitered the tube ends using a dremel, and then tacked the bamboo tubes together along with the aluminum head tube, BB shell, and dropouts, with 2 part epoxy. I then wrapped the joints with semi-processed hemp fiber wetted out with epoxy resin. I sanded the lugs smooth and then finished the whole bike with a few coats of polyurethane wood finish. Cable stops and bottle bosses are also shaped from bamboo. 

I have to say that the build process for this bike was very painstaking without the use of a proper frame jig, a mitering setup, and basic machining capabilities, but now that it's finally finished it's definitely been a fun project. 

The final frame weight surprisingly was 3.6 lbs, and the final build is about 18lbs. The bike is lots of fun to ride, and has a very smooth road feel. Hoping to start work on a mountain frame at some point... For now I am just happy to have this one finished! 

Thanks.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

awesome! i've been sitting on a couple thousand feet of hemp twine for two years now, but have yet to get around to actually building anything... get started on that mountain frame soon!


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## rmb (Feb 9, 2004)

That looks friggin great.


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## TortugaTonta (Jun 14, 2004)

That is a trip


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## sbitw (Sep 16, 2005)

Good job!

Did you do any kind of testing of the hemp joints before you built the frame, or is this built on the "looks good, is good" principle?


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

That's gorgeous! Well done.


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## Secace (Sep 8, 2004)

Dude, I want THAT!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

that is really freakin nice! Good job.

Could you fill us in on some of the particulars....I.e. where did you get the bamboo, hemp twine. what did you specifically use as an epoxy?

Did you make more of those cable stops? Can I buy some? 

Dave Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

sbitw said:


> Good job!
> 
> Did you do any kind of testing of the hemp joints before you built the frame, or is this built on the "looks good, is good" principle?


That pretty much sums it up. I tried to copy the look of the Calfee bamboo bikes as far as the thickness of the material, although I did end up erring on the side of leaving them a bit bigger/bulkier to be on the safe side.

When I was wrapping them I just went for it and ended up putting a fair amount of extra material on. I then shaped them down to get the basic form before hand sanding them to get a smooth finish.


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## flman (Sep 24, 2008)

Look like it is from Gillagan's Island  

Nice job though, very smooth looking :thumbsup:


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

dbohemian said:


> that is really freakin nice! Good job.
> 
> Could you fill us in on some of the particulars....I.e. where did you get the bamboo, hemp twine. what did you specifically use as an epoxy?
> 
> ...


I sourced pre-dried bamboo tubes from a place in Sebastopol CA called Bambo Sourcery, the hemp is a semi-processed hemp fiber that I got from Ecolution in Santa Cruz CA (If anyone wants some I ordered way too much!), all of the metal frame bits came from Nova Cycle Supply,the frame tubes are all tacked together with JB weld!, and for the lugs I used west system epoxy (pricey) which I got at the local marine supply store.

For the cable stops I shaped them by hand from blocks using a belt sander (flipped upside down on the work bench) and then finished them with the dremel tool. As for making more I think I need to come up with a better technique for making them if I were to try and sell any as I have probably 20 hours into those stops!

But I'll definitely keep it in mind if I can get some made more quickly!


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

Bada$$.
I love the idea of +/- "all natural"/"sustainable" materials for bikes.

I'd love to know how a bamboo mtb feels on the trail......


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## fanzy4 (Aug 19, 2004)

Very nice ! Especially for a first frame !
Could you explain us a little bit how you got such a good finish on the joints ? It looks much cleaner than the one I have seen on instructables... ;-)


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

purdy. 

Was curious if it is possible to pick up some sheets of bamboo? If you have some material left over let me know and I'll turn a custom top cap for the bike.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

regarding the mtb you plan on making, how do you plan to manage the chain and seatstays? they would have to be curved to have any kind of reasonable length with that tube thickness, right? do you plan to just dig through the twisty stuff at your supplier untill you find what will work, or bend it like they show in the youtube video?


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

fanzy4 said:


> Very nice ! Especially for a first frame !
> Could you explain us a little bit how you got such a good finish on the joints ? It looks much cleaner than the one I have seen on instructables... ;-)


Here are some pics to show the process for making the lugs with some pictures at the different stages.

The first picture is of the joints just after I finished wrapping all the joints with the hemp fiber. I tried to use enough resin and wrap it tight enough to have as few voids in the finished lugs as possible.

The second pic is of the lugs after shaping the hemp material first using an angle grinder with an abrasive wheel and then by hand with 60 grit paper. That epoxy resin is seriously tough when it's cured!

The third pic is after applying 2 sealer coats of epoxy resin to the lugs and then wet sanding that again using 80 and then 120 grit paper to get the surface smooth.

The final image shows the frame after three coats of a water based outdoor satin polyurethane finish that I applied over the bamboo and the lugs.

After doing it once I think I could get them even smoother with another go around. There were some instances when my lack of experience with the materials definitely compromised the finished product a bit.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

crux said:


> purdy.
> 
> Was curious if it is possible to pick up some sheets of bamboo? If you have some material left over let me know and I'll turn a custom top cap for the bike.


Crux,

Thanks for the offer! I actually did end up making a top cap and headset spacer to go on the bike using the dremel. I am a bit reluctant to admit this but I cut the material for the stops and top cap out of a bamboo cutting board! Sounds really strange I know but I came across it one day in the store and it seemed like it would work so I tried it and that's what I ended up putting on the bike. Can't ay that it's the absolute strongest material out there but so far so good...


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

sean salach said:


> regarding the mtb you plan on making, how do you plan to manage the chain and seatstays? they would have to be curved to have any kind of reasonable length with that tube thickness, right? do you plan to just dig through the twisty stuff at your supplier untill you find what will work, or bend it like they show in the youtube video?


Yeah I am not really sure exactly how to make the stays work for the mtb frame. It's really the area directly behind the bb that would be the most difficult. You can only make the bottom lug as wide as the bb shell and then you have to get the stays wide enough to clear the rear tire. Calfee seems to use strait tubes on their mountain frames but I'm not sure exactly how they get the chainstays so slim when they meet the bb shell. I'm wondering if they taper the bambbo tubes down at the bb lug somehow. In any case some more pondering and experimentation will certainly be needed to get that workable.


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## yellowjeep (Aug 20, 2008)

By far the most impressive home brew bamboo bike I have seen. Very nice.


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## KevinB (Oct 5, 2004)

Very nice!


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## derek (Jan 13, 2004)

sessionrider said:


> I sourced pre-dried bamboo tubes from a place in Sebastopol CA called Bambo Sourcery, the hemp is a semi-processed hemp fiber that I got from Ecolution in Santa Cruz CA (If anyone wants some I ordered way too much!), all of the metal frame bits came from Nova Cycle Supply,the frame tubes are all tacked together with JB weld!, and for the lugs I used west system epoxy (pricey) which I got at the local marine supply store.


Can you give us a rough estimate on prices for the tubes, fiber and epoxy?

Very cool project.

-Derek


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

derek said:


> Can you give us a rough estimate on prices for the tubes, fiber and epoxy?
> 
> Very cool project.
> 
> -Derek


Derek,

The bamboo in all was about $40.00. Although I still have a good amount of material left, almost enough for another bike. Also some of it really isn't totally usable, either too big or too small or really bent, etc.

The hemp fiber was cheap. I got all of the hemp for about $6.00 and another $15 for shipping (big box).

The resin was definitely on the expensive side. The epoxy resin and hardener was about $70.00 total and then the metering pump kit was another $15 or so.

All of the metal parts were about $80.00 in total.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

sessionrider said:


> end up making a top cap and headset spacer to go on the bike using the dremel.


I know that the dremel can do a decent job, but dang nice work. I found some darker more interesting wood to make a composite out of for some recent top caps. The cutting board sounds like a good idea for some starter material.

BTW how is the ride?


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## KevinB (Oct 5, 2004)

crux said:


> I know that the dremel can do a decent job, but dang nice work.


Yeah, I agree. _sessionrider_ has a lot more skill and patience than I do with a Dremel.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

crux said:


> I know that the dremel can do a decent job, but dang nice work. I found some darker more interesting wood to make a composite out of for some recent top caps. The cutting board sounds like a good idea for some starter material.
> 
> BTW how is the ride?


Wow those are gorgeous!! Really beautiful and I am sure much stronger than a full wood piece. Very nice!

As for the ride it is really better than I expected. I was worried that the rear end would be a little flexy given the smaller diameter of the stays, but to my surprise the frame is actually pretty stiff laterally. I had a Merlin before this bike and it feels stiffer out of the saddle than that bike did. The bamboo does have a nice damping effect too. It feels like a more comfy carbon frame as far as smoothing out the small road vibration and chatter bumps. Overall I couldn't be happier with the end result. It feels stable and the angles and alignment are close enough that I can't detect any real problems so that's good enough for me!


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## Freddy Salgado (Jun 4, 2009)

Nice job! Man that thing looks sweet! I'm pretty sure Craig Calfee would be impressed with your effort. Took me about 4 months to get my tubes cured good enough, and the lashing fibers I use is stripped by hand from New Zealand native flax. The bike rides like a dream especially over high frequency studder bumps. Bamboo is the ultimate ride when you want to smooth things out, great application for MTB's. I personally dont have the patients to sand my joints down, plus I like the Fred Flinstone meets the Jetsons look.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

Freddy Salgado said:


> Nice job! Man that thing looks sweet! I'm pretty sure Craig Calfee would be impressed with your effort. Took me about 4 months to get my tubes cured good enough, and the lashing fibers I use is stripped by hand from New Zealand native flax. The bike rides like a dream especially over high frequency studder bumps. Bamboo is the ultimate ride when you want to smooth things out, great application for MTB's. I personally dont have the patients to sand my joints down, plus I like the Fred Flinstone meets the Jetsons look.


WOW! You made a FS bike out of bamboo!!?? That is really freakin' awesome! I have never seen anything like it. I've gotta give you some serious props for pulling that off. Dealing with the pivots, shock mounts, and just the complexities of that type of frame is incredible. Way to go man. Seriously amazing. Love the look too. If my joints had turned out as clean as yours to begin with I would have left them alone too!

Is that rear end off of a GT? Is that thing I-Drive? Seriously though, that thing is incredible.


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

Holy Flintstones! These pics are cool...............:thumbsup:


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## Monkeybike (Feb 25, 2008)

Both Bikes in here are pretty amazing, Sessionrider, you bike is so smooth, and Freddy, your is so Flinstone - ish I love it!!


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## Freddy Salgado (Jun 4, 2009)

sessionrider said:


> Is that rear end off of a GT? Is that thing I-Drive? Seriously though, that thing is incredible.


 Thanx for kind words. The rear end is an carbon rear end upgrade kit you can buy for the I-drive marathon models. Was not a big fan of the original I-drive design, but got to give props to GT for putting an effort into doing things diffrent, and having a design that works well across the board, ie long & short travel bikes.
I really like your attention to details, waterbottle and cable stop bosses, bamboo headset spacers, stem compression caps. You da man! :thumbsup:


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## elran (Jun 2, 2009)

hi there,
i'm in the process of building me a bamboo frame too, must say i am very impressed by the work you've done Mister SessionRider! a hell of a nice job, must have spent some time on it eh?  (and your first shot at it too! damn!)

same goes for you Freddy Salgado, though you could have spent a bit more time on the finish, yet i understand your point of view...

the more important here, is the ride, and in both case, and the many others i have heard of, it seems really good, can't wait to finish my 24" BMX!!!

now, about curving bamboo, i'm putting a link here so that you get an idea of how to do it...

might come in handy, who knows...

and finally, in order to get quite quickly a good finish on the joints, i was thinking of using a sort of plaster mold (i would have made separately) to kind of press the hemp and epoxy together.
now with your feedback of working the hemp and epoxy, do you think it is something to think of?
the epoxy might get hard too fast maybe?

hope i'll get a nice finish like yours!


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

Elran,

Good luck with your project! Post some pics when you get it together. Also thanks for sharing that video. I really didn't think bending the tubes like that was a process you could do by hand. It gives me ideas of making some sweet bamboo beach cruisers! 

As far as the mold idea goes I was initially thinking that would be a good idea, but I couldn't think of a good way to make them quickly for one and two how to get the mold to fit for example all the way around the bb/seat tube lugs where you have multiple stays exiting the joint etc. Plus you would have to get just the right amount of hemp in them for it to work well. 

I think if you were really careful when you were wrapping the joints and used smaller amounts of the fiber strands at a time you could get them pretty well shaped without the need to do as much sanding as I did. 

Another idea I toyed with was somehow vacuum-bagging the joints after wrapping them to compact the fiber and maybe adding a bit more resin to give kind of a smooth finish at the same time. Not sure if this would even work but if you have some time to experiment with different methods it might be worth a shot!

As for amount of time I have into the bike, it's so much I don't even want to think about it! A couple things would have cut down on the time considerably though. 

First would have been to miter the tubes with a drill press/mill type setup. Second would have been using less fiber initially when forming the joints (less sanding). Then, not using electrical tape to mask off where I ended the lugs (15+ hours of trimming tape out of the cured epoxy, not fun!). And lastly choosing the appropriate finish for the frame. My first attempt with spar varnish wouldn't dry, so after waiting a week hoping it would set up I finally had to sand it all off and start over again, also not fun! 

So hopefully you can avoid some of my bonehead first time mistakes and your build will go a lot smoother. Good luck!


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## elran (Jun 2, 2009)

glad the link gave you new ideas!
and thanks for the input given, it surely might help me and/or save me extra time 
sure enough i'll post pictures once done...


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## fanzy4 (Aug 19, 2004)

sessionrider said:


> Then, not using electrical tape to mask off where I ended the lugs (15+ hours of trimming tape out of the cured epoxy, not fun!).


Any suggestion on what to use ? Something thicker to make a good barrier to epoxy ? 
And BTW, thanks for the pictures of the process.


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## boardrider247 (Sep 29, 2005)

sessionrider said:


> Elran, And lastly choosing the appropriate finish for the frame. My first attempt with spar varnish wouldn't dry, so after waiting a week hoping it would set up I finally had to sand it all off and start over again, also not fun!


A friend of mine builds wooden standup surfboard paddles and finishes them with a good quality automotive clear coat. I know it sounds strange but it really brings out the colors in the wood as well as providing a strong exterior. That may be worth a try on the next bike.

Your bike looks great. Much better then I would have expected a bamboo bike could be.


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## elran (Jun 2, 2009)

i forgot to mention that i found a thesis on bamboo, its title is:
"PHYSICAL, CHEMICAL, AND MECHANICAL PROPERTIES OF
BAMBOO AND ITS UTILIZATION POTENTIAL FOR
FIBERBOARD MANUFACTURING"
might be of interest to anyone here wanting to start building a bamboo frame, here's the link:
http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-04022004-144548/unrestricted/Li_thesis.pdf

pdf file...

oh, and watch for the name of the student who wrote this thesis btw... 

JVT


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## elran (Jun 2, 2009)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by sessionrider
> Then, not using electrical tape to mask off where I ended the lugs (15+ hours of trimming tape out of the cured epoxy, not fun!).
> Any suggestion on what to use ? Something thicker to make a good barrier to epoxy ?


i was thinking of using foam tape insulation to make that barrier.
since some sort of foam is used in the process of building carbon fiber bikes, i thought that might make a good and thick barrier to the epoxy...
one of the issue i see is, will the foam get "eaten" by the epoxy resin?
any thoughts?

and also:


> Yeah I am not really sure exactly how to make the stays work for the mtb frame. It's really the area directly behind the bb that would be the most difficult. You can only make the bottom lug as wide as the bb shell and then you have to get the stays wide enough to clear the rear tire.


i was thinking of a combination of bent bamboo and, don't know how to describe it (english isn't my mother tongue...), but here's a 3D picture of my project that will explain it better than i can:









i thought that would help me in using thinner bamboo "sticks", while still providing a good vertical strength, and bent bamboo for the laterale stiffness...

beware though, on the picture i've cut both bamboos in their length while i would only cut the upper one "in the real world" to avoid any issues on the strength due to the cut of the bamboo fibers...

only a thought, haven't yet experience it of course...
this idea was inspired from my Vario Tequila frame btw...


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

"xiaobo li"?? anyone we should have heard of?


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## elran (Jun 2, 2009)

no, just that he probably comes from a country which have a lot of use of bamboo...


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

sessionrider said:


> As far as the mold idea goes I was initially thinking that would be a good idea, but I couldn't think of a good way to make them quickly for one and two how to get the mold to fit for example all the way around the bb/seat tube lugs where you have multiple stays exiting the joint etc. Plus you would have to get just the right amount of hemp in them for it to work well.
> 
> I think if you were really careful when you were wrapping the joints and used smaller amounts of the fiber strands at a time you could get them pretty well shaped without the need to do as much sanding as I did.
> 
> Another idea I toyed with was somehow vacuum-bagging the joints after wrapping them to compact the fiber and maybe adding a bit more resin to give kind of a smooth finish at the same time. Not sure if this would even work but if you have some time to experiment with different methods it might be worth a shot!


One thing we did when fabricating composite airframes was having a compression mold holding the structure and drawing a vacuum over the composite. Composite was a mix of carbon/kevlar and resin. We would soak the cloth in resin on the table followed by wetting out the material (getting the resin out). This yeilded a lighter and stronger part.

Mold was pre preped accepting the composite followed by honeycomb material and second layer of composite. An upper mold section was placed on top and tightened down compressing the composite structure. Vacuum bag material was integrated in the mold making it easy to tape off. Now all we did was plug in the vacuum squezing more resin out.

Fast forward a few hours and we could pop the frame out of the mold. This was normally accomplished by a mix of high pressure air and little bit of encouragement.

For a bike frame you would need multiple VB sections and compression molds. The molds would need some reliv along the split allowing resin to sget forced out. When cured one would need a means of forcefully yet evenly seperating the mold, perhaps thread one side of the block pushing screws onto the opposing block.

Clean up of the joint could be done via xacto or dremel on the mold lines followed by sanding. That should reduce the labor in finishing the bike and give a lighter finished product. However the fabrication of the molds would take quite a bit of time and experimentation to get right.


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## Freddy Salgado (Jun 4, 2009)

elran said:


> hi there,
> now, about curving bamboo, i'm putting a link here so that you get an idea of how to do it...
> 
> might come in handy, who knows...


 Cool project! The guy in the video is a true bamboosero, bending bamboo is an advanced part of working with this material. I saw this video about 1yr ago and after many late nights of getting the hang of it decided to stick with straight tubes. Main reason is bending bamboo makes it weaker, 2nd reason for not bending is that it takes longer to cure properly than a straight tube.
For your application,(24" cruzer) I would build the 1st one with straight tubes to asure maximum strength. Last thing you want is rear end getting ripped apart from casing a set of doubles. As far as processes everyone has advice, my advice for picking a process is imagine your on a deserted island with no power tools! 
Have fun & good luck!


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## elran (Jun 2, 2009)

Freddy Salgado,

thanks for you input, wasn't aware of bamboo getting weaker by bending it...
and i sure don't want that! 

now, i'm not sure i understand your process thing about being on an island with no tools, do you mean something like: make it simple?


the idea behind building a 24" BMX is just to answer the question: how strong will a bamboo frame be, or rather, how far can you go with bamboo (next step would be a downhill frame  )

your bike kinda answer it though, a full suspension bamboo frame is quite impressive to me, never thought it could take it.


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## Freddy Salgado (Jun 4, 2009)

elran said:


> now, i'm not sure i understand your process thing about being on an island with no tools, do you mean something like: make it simple?


 Exactly what I mean. Forgot to mention a small epoxy factory on island would help but you get the idea.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

elran said:


> i was thinking of using foam tape insulation to make that barrier.
> since some sort of foam is used in the process of building carbon fiber bikes, i thought that might make a good and thick barrier to the epoxy...
> one of the issue i see is, will the foam get "eaten" by the epoxy resin?
> any thoughts?
> ...


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## trackalack (Jan 27, 2010)

sessionrider said:


> I sourced pre-dried bamboo tubes from a place in Sebastopol CA called Bambo Sourcery, the hemp is a semi-processed hemp fiber that I got from Ecolution in Santa Cruz CA (If anyone wants some I ordered way too much!), all of the metal frame bits came from Nova Cycle Supply,the frame tubes are all tacked together with JB weld!, and for the lugs I used west system epoxy (pricey) which I got at the local marine supply store.
> 
> For the cable stops I shaped them by hand from blocks using a belt sander (flipped upside down on the work bench) and then finished them with the dremel tool. As for making more I think I need to come up with a better technique for making them if I were to try and sell any as I have probably 20 hours into those stops!
> 
> But I'll definitely keep it in mind if I can get some made more quickly!


Wow this is fantastic! Amazed with the attention to detail and how smoothed the frame looks. Any advice on selecting the bamboo and issues with cracking since the build??

I contacted Ecolution a week ago and haven't heard back - do you need to buy hemp through wholesale? Would really love to get a hold of them.


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## bmxconvert (May 17, 2006)

I have to do this! I started a frame jig about 2 years ago for a mini-dh project frame. Seeing as that is not getting done and I have too many dh bikes in the garage and only 3 hardtails, it's time to build a new frame.

Is there an advantage to using a hemp fiber over hemp twine or vice versa?
When picking out a bamboo what should we be looking for(seeing as there are different types)?
How did you join the drop outs to the bamboo, via slits in bamboo or other methods?
Seat tube... what was your method for getting the proper ID?


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

trackalack said:


> Wow this is fantastic! Amazed with the attention to detail and how smoothed the frame looks. Any advice on selecting the bamboo and issues with cracking since the build??
> 
> I contacted Ecolution a week ago and haven't heard back - do you need to buy hemp through wholesale? Would really love to get a hold of them.


The frame is still holding up well. Only time will tell just how long the service life of the bamboo is.

As far as tube selection there were some areas that displayed cracks after the heat treating process. I didn't use these sections and that's about it as far as what I looked for.

Try calling ecolution. I had good luck speaking to them directly vs. email. Good luck with your project!


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

bmxconvert said:


> I have to do this! I started a frame jig about 2 years ago for a mini-dh project frame. Seeing as that is not getting done and I have too many dh bikes in the garage and only 3 hardtails, it's time to build a new frame.
> 
> Is there an advantage to using a hemp fiber over hemp twine or vice versa?
> When picking out a bamboo what should we be looking for(seeing as there are different types)?
> ...


I used the loose fiber because all of the twine I could find was very fine and i thought it would have been difficult to get the bulk needed around each joint.

As far as the bamboo, I went with what the folks at the bamboo supplier said was the strongest which was the Tonkin variety.

For the dropouts at the seat stays I used plug style fittings meant for carbon frames and at the chainstay I did end up slotting the bamboo to fit the rectangular dropouts. Both were then bonded with JB.

To get the proper ID for the seat tube insert I bought an aluminum seat tube from Nova and then made my insert from that, and bonded it into the bamboo seat tube. This gave me the proper ID for the seatpost and the correct OD for the seat collar.

I would say go for it especially if you have a jig. It will take longer and be more work than you anticipate but it's well worth it!!


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## bmxconvert (May 17, 2006)

Thank you for the response.

I checked with Bamboo Sourcery and they are not shipping their "poles", most retailers seem to be wanting to ship in quantities of 25+ "poles". 
I'm going to check with the local nurseries but I would guess in a town of 36,000 folks, bamboo will not be common.
Portland seems to have a supplier/dealer in portland that sells down to 1/2" in the Tonkin bamboo for $1.10 for 6'. I will have to see if I can't make it down on my next day off to check out the supply. 

I've been reading about people using fairly generic epoxy's for their bamboo/hemp frames, I wonder if there is something that would be ideal for this purpose?


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

bmxconvert said:



> Thank you for the response.
> 
> I checked with Bamboo Sourcery and they are not shipping their "poles", most retailers seem to be wanting to ship in quantities of 25+ "poles".
> I'm going to check with the local nurseries but I would guess in a town of 36,000 folks, bamboo will not be common.
> ...


Most of the bamboo suppliers were only selling them in large quantities when I was firs looking. The supplier I found was on ebay. I ordered 19 poles in 5' lengths in various sizes to my preference. She cut them fresh and I heat treated it within a week of receiving. Came out to $45 for the poles and another $50 for shipping. Her ebay id is rainbowsatoz. I haven't seen any listings from her in awhile and I contacted her a week ago for more poles, but haven't gotten a response yet.


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## dloud (Dec 6, 2011)

Wow that is awesome! I looked for those dropouts you have on nova cycles...but I could not find them. Would you mind telling me what type of dropouts those are?


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

For those of you who have built with Bamboo, what diameter poles did you use for TT, DT, ST, chainstays and seatstays?
And Spokeywheeler, am I right in understanding that the HT on your frame is aluminium rather than bamboo?


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

TR said:


> For those of you who have built with Bamboo, what diameter poles did you use for TT, DT, ST, chainstays and seatstays?
> And Spokeywheeler, am I right in understanding that the HT on your frame is aluminium rather than bamboo?


1.5", 1.5", 1.5" with 35mm sleeve (31.8 seatpost), .8", .8" - keeping in mind that not all timber bamboo is the same.

I found that the 1.5" is a bit flexy. I'm building one with 2" diameter TT and DT with a 49.57mm ID carbon fiber head tube (Cane Creek ZS49 headset).

You wouldn't want a bamboo head tube. Unless it had a metal or carbon sleeve. The fibers themselves are not hard enough to support bearing cups. Not to mention trying to ream a perfect circle out of generally ellipsoid bamboo.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for your help Drew.
I have a feeling I will be back.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

TR - I just realized that my claim of 1.5" with a 35mm sleeve - I misused the term "sleeve", as that frame in particular had a two part seat tube. If it was a 1.5" OD bamboo pole literally, with a sleeve that big, the walls of the bamboo would be dangerously thin.

1.5" is sort of a loose dimension. The diameter of a bamboo pole can change a good portion of an inch along a two foot length.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for the clarification.
Found a source for the poles and need to look into Australian sources for HT's, BB shells etc.
This could get messy.


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## cdn-dave (Jan 6, 2007)

TR said:


> For those of you who have built with Bamboo, what diameter poles did you use for TT, DT, ST, chainstays and seatstays?


Since I started with a cut-up steel frame, I brought the pieces (BB, HT, ST junctions and dropouts) with me to the bamboo place, and looked for poles that would fit over. Not sure what species, just your garden-variety . Front triangle wound up being ~38mm OD, stays ~24mm OD, wall thicknesses around 6mm.

Drew's right though, I picked poles around 1.5m long, and the diameter of one end would typically be different from the other end.

Now's probably a good time to harvest if you're heading to a nursery - less moisture content in the fall!

have fun,
dave


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## sbd (Sep 23, 2011)

Amazingly sweeeet!


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## Canaboo (May 16, 2011)

Very nice but not actually Tonkin bamboo. Dealers love to toss the Tonkin moniker around because of its reputation but once you see it you'll never mistake it for anything else.
The nodes are far less prominent and it's much stiffer for its size.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

Really amazing I love the look, it's awesome when you can create some thing with your own hands. My hat's off to any one who thinks out of the box and follows through. How stiff are these when one starts laying the torque into the cranks on a hard climb?


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

snydercj7 said:


> Really amazing I love the look, it's awesome when you can create some thing with your own hands. My hat's off to any one who thinks out of the box and follows through. How stiff are these when one starts laying the torque into the cranks on a hard climb?


Can't speak for others, but climbing doesn't matter. High speed "whip" matters more to me. And the answer is: not too good.

I blame 1.5" diameter poles and a standard head tube. I'm building a frame currently that has 2" all around for the front triangle, head tube included. We'll see how that goes.

Take care to note that Boo brand frames follow that idea. Huge head tubes, huge front triangle poles. Kinda like how aluminum frames tend to have really big down tubes.

EDIT: The really interesting part to me is how laterally stiff the rear triangle is. Almost no difference. I run a belt on mine and it's been working fine.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

Drew Diller said:


> Can't speak for others, but climbing doesn't matter. High speed "whip" matters more to me. And the answer is: not too good.
> 
> I blame 1.5" diameter poles and a standard head tube. I'm building a frame currently that has 2" all around for the front triangle, head tube included. We'll see how that goes.
> 
> ...


I concur with Drew. On my road frames I don't notice much flex but on the mtbs I notice a considerable amount of front triangle flex. The rear end however is stiff but forgiving.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks for the input, intersting you mentioned Boo as a friend of mine is suppose to start machining their rear drop outs. That is where I first heard of any one using bamboo as a bike tubing before getting on here and seeing it's been around for a minute or two.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

I have found my frame (road) is pretty darn stiff. Up out of the saddle sprinting produces no significant feeling of flex. 

I had a Ti frame before this bike and it feels very similar stiffness wise. It is definitely more stiff than a typical steel frame, but perhaps not as stiff as a better carbon frame. 

On the mtb side I imagine that with 28" bars, mashing up a steep climb, out of the saddle, yeah you may feel some unwanted flex. You can probably mitigate this with head tube diameter, tubing O.D. and wall thickness. I am working on some mtb frames right now so I should have some real world testing to report soon. 

Also been working on some fillet road frames recently out of 4130, and I have to say bamboo is way stiffer in terms of the actual frame tubes. So as long as the joints are stiff the resulting bike should also be stiff.


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## [email protected] (Dec 3, 2008)

Really good work, that looks way nicer than many bamboo frames ive seen!

If you dont mind me asking, how much did i cost? I was planning on building a steel frame as a commuter bike, but was toying with the idea of bamboo also.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

Much of the cost for me was in tools and supplies, to make a jig, to cut and miter the tubes, and to sand and form the lugs. As far as the actual costs go I spent about $100 on bamboo. Plus about $150 for the frame parts bb shell dropouts and such. This also includes having the head tube stock turned down a bit by a local machinist. The aluminum head tube I purchased from nova for the build was super thick and thus very heavy. Then about $20 for the hemp fiber. The west system epoxy was expensive about $175 including the pump kit so you don't have to measure it out. Then $30 or so in other adhesives and finish. So maybe $500 or so. 

You can probably do it for cheaper but that's what I ended up spending. Plus about 150 hours worth of time not an exaggeration!! But then again I did everything completely by hand and I had to build all the fixturing along the way. 

A fun project though and I am pretty happy with the results. Now I am getting a real shop together with a jig, mitering fixtures, all tooling, small parts, etc. I am hoping my next builds go MUCH faster!


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

spokeywheeler said:


> The aluminum head tube I purchased from nova for the build was super thick and thus very heavy.


I've been using 6061 aluminum from Onlinemetals.com for my headtubes with good results. 38.1mm OD , 33.88mm ID. Plenty stiff and much lighter than the Nova headtubes that I was using before.


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## snydercj7 (Jun 12, 2008)

spokeywheeler said:


> Plus about 150 hours worth of time not an exaggeration!! But then again I did everything completely by hand and I had to build all the fixturing along the way. !


150 hrs, now thats passion. I like it!


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