# For those guys that crash enough to advise on armour



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi,

I have an armour question that I have posted in the AM forum, but relates to DH terrain but with AM skill.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=629186

Please help,

P


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

CaveGiant said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have an armour question that I have posted in the AM forum, but relates to DH terrain but with AM skill.
> 
> ...


I am going to be falling on sharp rocky terrain and falling off northshore, but I will not be going very fast compared to DH guys.

I don't plan on crashing but I do wear armor in anticipation of the worse. When I ride DH fast or slow I wear upper body armor, elbow , knee / shin pads, gloves and a FF helmet. I see a lot of guys wearing neck braces which seems like a safe idea. AM riders seem to go from a glove & helemt to near DH gear depending on the rider. My motto better safe than sorry only takes one crash to...


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## craigshaf (May 23, 2007)

1. I crash a lot
2. I'm not that fast
3. I have a rule now that if I'm in my full face, I'm in my full armor (tired of tearing my shoulder up)

For upper body I wear a Rockgardn Flak jacket. It's saved my ass, er, shoulders, chest, back, etc, plenty.
Thinking of getting a Leatt this season. Will try one out at the next demo I come across.


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## Cantil3v3r (Jan 14, 2009)

So after reading your original post in the AM forum...I have to say it is not always about going incredibly fast that will get you hurt, especially with a well placed rock. 

Personally I wear Dainese lower bibs that cover my knee, shins, and outer thigh. I also have a Dainese pressure suit that has the articulated spine, shoulder, elbow, forearm and chest protector. (Gladiator EVO) I have taken so many spills while using both of these items and they continue to save me from injury. I have taken some low speed crashes, as well as high speed tumbles and the hard plastic protectors I have found to be the most useful as they help to deflect a lot of the force and displace that force over a larger area instead of just through the minimal padding. Lots of people wear different brands, Rockgardn, 661, Dainese...just find one that fits and is as comfortable as possible, which will usually get you to wear it more often. I also have a Leatt brace and wear it anytime I have my full face on. 

I am sure some people will whine and cry about how hot the armor is, or how itchy, stuffy or just 'not cool' it is, but after not wearing my elbow/arm guards one day I flipped over and put my chainring into my forearm...even with pretty good insurance I still ended up paying a few hundred dollars for stitches. With that money I could have bought all the gear I needed several times over and not had to go through the pain of dealing with it in the first place. 

Personal choice, but I say for any kind of DH/Freeride get as much armor as you can deal with wearing and use it as often as you can.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

So everyone here is saying everything, matched with AM forum!

dammit, this will not be cheap.

One of the reasons I was wanting just the back is sizing just covers the length.
I am 6'7 but normal build.

Does anyone know of any brands with a long backplate?

My wife has a similar problem, she bought this

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=9569

But I think she is too tall for it. The waist strap covers the bottom of her ribs, no lower.

It this too short?

Thanks,

P


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

OK for me,

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=50261

+

one of those back plates listed above.

That means I can get an XXL back length and a L subgear so the thing fits.

Anything stupid I am overlooking?


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## sdo1982 (Jun 14, 2010)

Not always about speed as others say, I was out last night with just my lid, no other armour, came off when I overshot a landing, and its going to be a week off the bike for me!
Elbows, Knees and FF Lid are a good start, but to be honest losing skin from those areas never really bothered me, its shoulders that I always land on for some strange reason, get a top with some protection around your shoulder blades, fort bill has plenty of rocks to snap bones on! Personally I dont get on with the ridgid chest or back protection, however as some of the guys have mentioned, youcan get some great "soft" protection shirts these days, most of them are breathable, so you wont end up smelling like a yeti at the end of the day!


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## paintmc (Mar 21, 2006)

Being the PRO I am at falling......Here are some gear suggestions to stay in one piece.

Body: 661 Vapor suit...Verry long back plate
Leg/knees: POC VPD Bone
Head: Giro Remedy

This will keep you safe...

Cheers and happy falling / riding,
Big T


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

I try not to crash, for DH I wear arm + knee/shin pads, FF helmet, gloves and a 661 core saver.

If I was going to Fort bill tomorrow thats what I would wear.

I like the core-saver because its done its job several times now, and I barely notice wearing it.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Definitely agree with the "wear a lot of armor" school of thought, especially for uplift days, and based on what I've seen of it, double-especially for Fort Bill! Full pressure suit, knees, and FF/goggles is pretty much my minimum if I'm going to be pushing it....I use a pair of shin guards as well if it's going to be real rough. You definitely get used to riding with the suit, and it does a good job of keeping you riding after most crashes. I've had ample opportunity to try crashing on ALL the different pads on my suits (been "through" a couple of 661s), and I definitely recommend wearing one! :thumbsup: For the amount of inconvenience they cause they sure add a lot of security. And this comes from somebody living in a place where it gets into the 100s for a significant part of the year...believe me when I can I prefer not to run the suit...


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

Not sure there are many makes that will fit that size of a frame. You could go with armored hockey pants, which some have plastic kidney/hip protection and are large.

I have on order the new EVS G5 armor. Size 4XL fits a 48-51 chest. I also have the MSR reflex knee guards. Alpinestar also copy this model or maybe it's the same company.


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## Techfreak (Feb 17, 2005)

I am only a bit shorter than you are (6'6") and I use a L Rockgardn Flak Jacket, precisely because the spine guard is so long. I would recommend one for sure.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

Scratch that EVS armor. That image above was put out by their marketing dept before they had the final production version. It actually looks the SAME as the BJ22 and 33 suits. Big disappointment as the look of the new one was far better. The only difference is the lower end piece of the spine protector.

And on a side note, that armor doesn't fit very well, and the elbow armor does not protect the back of the elbow enough for me. I've decided that NO "pro" bike armor is suitable at this point. Just cheap flimsy plastic with minimal padding.

I've decided to build a suit, using a mix of bike gear (knee armor/boots - if only they made Sidi crossfires for mt bike instead of MX) and hockey armor for the chest/shoulders and hips/kidneys. Can't beat the protection of SOLID thick plastic with padding.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I have a rockgarden flack jacket back protector (bought as a spare) and was going to stitch it onto whatever jacket I can find.

Am having thoughts about buying the full flack jack, but so much cash!

How is it for warmth, just lift days, or could you ride uphil on it, or even XC?


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Just bought the full rockgdn flak, lets see if it fits!


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

CaveGiant said:


> Am having thoughts about buying the full flack jack, but so much cash!


Which is my main peeve. These things are overglorified trash baskets with a bit of fluff padding. I was looking at the Dainese Commander for the low price compared to when it was new, and I still can't see any justification for the price (esp. compared to how cheap you can get hockey chest armor), after having been let down by the quality of the EVS armor. And the Commander has even LESS protection! I think the only worthwhile part of it is the spine protector.

As for warmth vs the flak and EVS, they're probably the same weave, so I can speak for it. It'll keep you cool and it's not hot at all.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I have also bought the girls one for my wife, we can match, how romantic!


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## Techfreak (Feb 17, 2005)

Pedaling up in the Flak Jacket is hot, but doable. I find the kidney belt to generate a lot of heat when cinched down. Just loosen it for the ups, and tighten everything for the downs. Easy. I think the women's model does not have the rib protection of the men's one.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Don't neglect your hips, thighs and tailbone. I landed hard on my hip last season and I could barely walk for a week, and I couldn't sleep on that side for almost three weeks. 

This year I got some Rockgardn CYA shorts, which are basically lycra bike shorts with hard pads that you wear under your baggies. They have saved my ass twice this year, literally.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

honkinunit said:


> Don't neglect your hips, thighs and tailbone. I landed hard on my hip last season and I could barely walk for a week, and I couldn't sleep on that side for almost three weeks.
> 
> This year I got some Rockgardn CYA shorts, which are basically lycra bike shorts with hard pads that you wear under your baggies. They have saved my ass twice this year, literally.


That's exactly why I use hockey shorts (which some people on here it seems will mock you for). I don't know what kind of pads they use in those lycra shorts, but I can guarantee the hockey shorts are better armored, but heavier/bulkier. But protection is nothing to skimp on, esp if it saves you from breaking your pelvis or spine and preventing you from walking out of the woods.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

bcdale said:


> That's exactly why I use hockey shorts (which some people on here it seems will mock you for). I don't know what kind of pads they use in those lycra shorts, but I can guarantee the hockey shorts are better armored, but heavier/bulkier. But protection is nothing to skimp on, esp if it saves you from breaking your pelvis or spine and preventing you from walking out of the woods.


The pads in the CYA shorts are hard plastic sandwiched in soft foam. There are hip, thigh and tailbone pads. The rest of the short is standard lycra bike material, and the fit is standard bike short fit.

I was a little skeptical, but I fell exactly the same way this year as I did last year and landed directly on my hip with no problem whatsoever. The shorts wick sweat, and are light enough that you don't even know you have them on. They do not have a chamois, but I have heard some road riders have taken to wearing them in criteriums, especially when they are nursing an already wounded hip or thigh. My son wears his under a pair of baggy cargo shorts and you can't even tell he has them on. I wear them under some DH shorts.

I'm sure they are not as protective as hockey shorts, but they are a whole lot more cool and comfortable.


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

I bought some of the CYA shorts, they offer some protection, but quite honestly I would like more protection for the fragile hips. 

football girdles have bigger hip pads that go up above the waistband that I plan on taking a look at.
hockey pads are another option but they look awful bulky


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

Evan55 said:


> hockey pads are another option but they look awful bulky


They also offer kidney protection. The ones I have use hard plastic and padding, not just foam padding like some others. I really don't need the thigh protection since the knee guards I use cover that already, so one could always cut those off / remove the lower half of the shorts. What the market should do it just make a product like the top half of the hockey pants, without protection for the thigh and side of the leg and just keep the hip/kidney/lower spine inserts.


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## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

I wonder why Fox stopped making the Launch Suite. By the looks of it the Launch Suite kicks the snot out of the 'Titan Jacket' for quality and looks. Man that thing is ugly. After that fail I'm really out of good sources for quality armor....


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## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

bcdale said:


> Scratch that EVS armor. That image above was put out by their marketing dept before they had the final production version. It actually looks the SAME as the BJ22 and 33 suits. Big disappointment as the look of the new one was far better. The only difference is the lower end piece of the spine protector.
> 
> And on a side note, that armor doesn't fit very well, and the elbow armor does not protect the back of the elbow enough for me. I've decided that NO "pro" bike armor is suitable at this point. Just cheap flimsy plastic with minimal padding.
> 
> I've decided to build a suit, using a mix of bike gear (knee armor/boots - if only they made Sidi crossfires for mt bike instead of MX) and hockey armor for the chest/shoulders and hips/kidneys. Can't beat the protection of SOLID thick plastic with padding.


I'm almost with you on this one. Fox used to make the Launch Suite which for me, was a great piece of equipment. I actually still have and still wear mine but am looking for what the future had to bring...crap is what.

I'm thinking just like a EVS Revo 5 and some Fox Launch Pads. No kidney protection but I can deal with that.

The new Fox Titan Jacket looks very poorly made in comparison to the old Launch Suite. Very disappointing with Fox...


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

I also tried one of those Fox suits which everyone copies. I have no idea the name of it since there is none. It's just titled XX or something. It can be found on ebay and usually sold by guys in Taiwan. I was disappointed with that one to say the least, and the Launch suit you mention looks about the same, with the exception of a little more elbow and chest protection. But all that red stuff on the lower arm from the shoulder is just fluff, not plastic armor.

And for chest protection I will not tolerate gaps. Zippers are forboden. I want a one piece chest plate, no exceptions. I thought I might have to settle for hockey chest armor/pads and add a roost protector which would be too much. But luckily I stumbled upon tons of youtube reviews from a local bike shop, and I caught a few brand names the guy rambled off. One was Knox.

So I looked them up, and MAN do they have the isht. It fits my criterium perfectly, though a little expensive, but so is Dainese which I was looking at. But they also have armor that accepts the Leatt, so I ordered the Warrior BC9.


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

website?


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

http://www.knox-armour.co.uk/product.html?product=warriorbc9 - also has a fitment video on there.

Here's the website for the video review http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/Page.bok?template=Body+Armor+and+Protectors


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

Bikesair said:


> I wonder why Fox stopped making the Launch Suite. By the looks of it the Launch Suite kicks the snot out of the 'Titan Jacket' for quality and looks. Man that thing is ugly. After that fail I'm really out of good sources for quality armor....


I have a fox launch suit and on my first run, first fall bruised my ribs. :madman: 
the foam on the launch suit is way too thin and squishy. you need firm padding to absorb and spread out an impact. (to its credit, the back protector is excellent)
I havent worn any other suits but I cant imagine they could be worse than the launch suit. if they are worse, the state of MTB armor is a seriously sad affair.

Im looking for something with some semblance of rib protection which is proving to be essentially impossible 
considering the amount of rib injuries I see in the injury forum, this appears to be a gross oversight of the armor manufacturers.

for now Im planning on picking up a Rockgardn flak jacket (new 2010 design), and wearing either lacrosse rib protectors underneath, or a football undershirt with rib pads .


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

That's about the only thing I liked about the fox armor, is the back protector. Other than that, the chest / arm protection was sorely lacking.

Knox also has a separate chest protector for $60 if you don't feel like getting the whole warrior upper body armor. What I like about it and demand, is that it's a one piece design. No gaps in the middle from a zipper. It wraps around the ribs a bit as well. Some might use it to combine with the Icon field armor vest, which is really only useful as a back protector, and not CE certified.


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## DarKmaN (Aug 2, 2007)

I used to wear only a FF helmet but crashed and broke some bones including my collar bone...

Decided to buy the Rockgardn Flack Jacket... fit me very well...and good quality..

On oneparticular crash went in shoulder first and the flak jacket shoulder cupprseed so hard on my shoulder that my other colalr bone shatered. I guess armor is there to protect but not totally prevent of course. all it takes is a well palced rock or super high speed spill.

Now i'm wondering which armor offers: (aside from the velocity juggernaught armor)

•CE EN1621-2 Level 2 compliant back protection 
•CE EN1621-1 compliant shoulder and elbow protection 

And if the Rockgardn flak jacket meets the above standards as well???


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

As far as padded undershorts go, I found Under Armour's football compression shorts to work really well. The hip pad comes up high, large tailbone pad, and pockets to put additional pads to cover the front of your legs and your johnson rod. They also make a shirt that has light padding in the chest, shoulders and ribs that would make a great first layer.


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

ajdemo76 said:


> They also make a shirt that has light padding in the chest, shoulders and ribs that would make a great first layer.


when I bruised my ribs I went looking for armor with good rib protection, I couldnt find it  . So I started looking at football pad shirts and found some good ones. I ended up buying a schutt DNA practice shirt. i found the rib coverage to be much better than the under armour one
https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3424750&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch










the shoulder caps come right off, it has complete wrap around rib protection. the padding itself is high density and relatively thin but has no plastic layer, all the pads are well ventilated and very flexible. It fits well under my armor and I will use it as an a supplemental undershirt on DH/ Shuttle days, and maybe by itself on AM days (and all riding until my ribs heal)
Hopefully it will not interfere with a Leatt brace but it would not be hard to remove the pads around the collarbone if it does.

they only come in xl and xxl BUT the sizing runs really really small. I usually wear L shirts and bought XL, and it is still very tight (id buy xxl if i was doing it again). Even if you wear size M you will be fine with XL.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

DarKmaN said:


> Now i'm wondering which armor offers: (aside from the velocity juggernaught armor)
> 
> •CE EN1621-2 Level 2 compliant back protection
> •CE EN1621-1 compliant shoulder and elbow protection
> ...


You won't find all that in a one piece suit I doubt. Not even a Dainese full body suit ($3,500!) will offer chest / rib protection to my high standards (I hate zipper fronts - it must be one piece, no gaps). You could just put a Knox chestpiece under the rockgarden, but then I don't like their elbow or shoulder armor either on that suit. Which is why I've given up and just mix/match items. Even the Knox stuff. They have level 2 back protectors, but you will have to match it with a level 1 chest piece / shoulder suit if possible because the suit only has a level 1 back protector.

For elbow, I've gone to Dainese 3x. It's level 1 and has the back of the elbow protection thats missing on so many if not all other brands.

You'll have to wear that football shirt under the Knox chestpiece. Or you can get some leather or steel Roman armor chestpice hah.


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

Evan55 said:


> when I bruised my ribs I went looking for armor with good rib protection, I couldnt find it  . So I started looking at football pad shirts and found some good ones. I ended up buying a schutt DNA practice shirt. i found the rib coverage to be much better than the under armour one
> https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3424750&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmmm.....I may have to look into trying this.


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## Ptrick (Apr 22, 2010)

Had a nice off riding moto and injured my ribs. Came across these Zoombang shirts used mostly for football. Has the d30 type padding that hardens when force is applied. I use them as an undershirt when riding my motorcycle or for shuttle/dh days. Wicks sweat (under armor type material). Available in a few different configurations.

They will actually make you a custom shirt with padding just about anywhere you want on their site: https://www.zoombang.com/


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

wow. i would like my lycra chamios to have that zoombang stuff all up on it. 

seems to me that most pads just have stuff on the hip bones and forward, which i never really land on. its always the sides of my ass muscles that get ripped up and nothing out there really coveres that up.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

SamL3227 said:


> the sides of my ass muscles that get ripped up and nothing out there really coveres that up.


You'll either have to get hockey pants or shockdoctor looks like their hip pads cover that area. But I don't think the foam they use is going to be enough protection honestly. Looks like they added rib protectors.

https://www.shockdoctor.com/products/impact-gear.aspx


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

I just got the new 2010 Rockgardn Flak jacket in. Havent ridden with it yet but so far Im pleasantly surprised. Its not perfect but a lot better than most of what I looked at. 
The chest plates are bigger than I thought, they come down pretty far and have a small extension to cover the ribs. Small pads on the sides too cover the side ribs. 
My biggest gripe (and I wont know if this is an actual issue until I ride/crash in it) is that the chest plates are sewn on to stretchy spandex, so they arent anchored in place very well. Seems like they would move around a lot if you crash at speed.
Back protector is hefty but doenst go up as high as most so it fits the Leatt. Would have been nice if it came all the way up and then just remove plates for the leatt.

giving it a ride this weekend, hopefully wont test it out though, my ribs are still bruised from the last time!


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## Kabrex (Jul 29, 2010)

My personal set up is a Troy Lee Designs D3 helmet, POC goggles, a Rockgarden chest & spine flakjacket, POC shingards, and Fox goggles. I tend to forego arm guards these days because I find the increased mobility I get from not having them is more helpful than if I have them + the chest protection. Plus they're hot.
I also recently acquired a Moto GPX neck brace, however, I like to wear this without cheat protection when I'm pinning it alone. Not all body armor is compatible with neck braces either, so if you're looking into one its important to check that out!


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

flakjacket is compatable tho ya?


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

2010 is. the one with black fabric (actually spandex) on the shoulders


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

oh....darn. i gots the 09.


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

other people have said the 09 is fine if you take out the top back protector plate


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

bcdale said:


> https://www.shockdoctor.com/products/impact-gear.aspx


anyone know where to buy the shockdoctor shorts with the high hip protection? I really like the coverage, but I cant even find them for sale online. (only the low hip protection) :madman:


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

Evan55 said:


> anyone know where to buy the shockdoctor shorts with the high hip protection? I really like the coverage, but I cant even find them for sale online. (only the low hip protection) :madman:


Seems these forums mess up the reply order. Yours should be newest and not above others.

You can buy them on their website in that link. They're also on amazon. They're called 
CrushTech 3+2 EXT Hip Football Short


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## emsman1 (Feb 16, 2008)

what is the fit like on the CYAs? Are they true to size?


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

yes true to size. order your regular shorts size.

they are spandex and will fit like a pair of roadie shorts. obvious to most, but might be unexpected to some DH types.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm 6'3" and weigh 225 or so with gear, and I was in this boat not long ago myself. In May, I broke 3 ribs in a fall in Moab (out 2.5 months), then after 4 weeks of riding, I got a grade 3 AC separation in my shoulder (out 2.5 more months). Time to get some more gear. 

I recently got myself a SixSixOne Core Saver and the Race knee/shin guards. I loves them to death. I haven't had to test the stuff out yet, thankfully, but it seems like it would protect my more expensive-to-fix bits quite well. VERY little restriction of movement. The Core saver is decently long in the spinal protection to hit at about half an inch from my shorts' waistline. Good enough for me though, as most similar systems are an inch shorter than that. But even with all the stuff on, I forget I am wearing it after a few minutes. It's very light. The Core Saver's perceived weight is much less than the average pressure suit. Feels like half the weight to me. So, my total protective gear list:

Troy Lee D2 full face helmet
Core Saver vest
Fox elbow guards
661 Race knee/shin guards
Fox gloves

I'm gonna end up like the Michelin man someday, but at least I'll hopefully be able to walk away from the next wreck intact.


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## Crow (Feb 14, 2007)

I use an EVS neck brace with my 661 or dainese pressure suits. Recent addition to my kit but it has saved my life at least three times.


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

POC POC POC POC POC and... POC!

It is all you need. The soft stuff (Joint) is the best in the business. The chest protector (Spine VPD) is both the most protective and most comfortable. The bone (hard shell) elbows are better than dianese, which are the only two decent hard shell pads in the business. The bone knees are also very good, but hard shell knees are always a pain if you have large thighs and a low seat.

Only issue in 2 yrs:
Stiching: do not machine wash. Just take it in the shower with you after a ride.
Fit: the fit is a bit off I think. I ended up using the medium spine, but inside the large Jersey. The design was to cover more of the coccyx, but that made the pad ride up on me. Smaller spine pad (thanks Competitive Cyclist) fits perfectly.


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

i run the TL d3 helmet buy it big, as the fit is super snug, just got the fox titan suit also fits on the smaller side, and the quality is ****, but fits ok for a cheap body armor and a little restrictive on the arms and i dont like any resistance, but will do for now. my old dainese suit was great but it fell apart after a year due to the salt from sweat even though it was constantly washed, the mesh kept ripping apart. as for knees i run the troy lee t-bone, not a fan of 661 stuff at all, dont like the hard shell stuff on the knees as it rides into you knee pit and gives you a rash/burn. i run elbows only and my paintball body armor which is light foam shirt for trails im familiar with. hate having so much gear, and i know one bad fall and youll wish you had armor. i agree with those that say better to have more than less, although i dont always listen.


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