# Magicshine poll



## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

just out of curiosity.

ps- you can choose more than one answer..


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## WindWithMe (Apr 17, 2008)

I was one of the first to buy this light from DX and had some initial issues with battery pack. I found there to be a loose lead,but after some soldering I was able to fix my problem. Purchased a 2nd one a couple weeks ago from GeoMan and the light is actually better then my MS from DX. The light is less green,and has a high,medium,low setting which for me is important because I use this in the city too. 

I will be buying a third MagicShine in the next couple days. Best Bang-4-Buck I've seen in along time. :thumbsup:

*****I did vote battery failed though****


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## mnmountainbiker (Oct 12, 2008)

no problems x2 for me. Oh and I've got the early "bad versions"!


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

I have had great luck...so far.

I think after this winter, we will see the long term life of the MS in terms of issues. If anything, the battery life might be the weak point.


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## VaskaS (Aug 19, 2009)

I'll never buy this light just because I'm able to make a more bright, handy and reliable light, weighing less and all for the same amount of money


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

I had 6 for me and mates all with no problems, obviously i kept the brightest and 5 mode version. For the price of this i cant see how you make anything much better, especially if you counter in labour, id charge £20 ($32) PH minimum so if it took more than 2 hours plus parts, really wouldn't be worth it


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

I don't think the final question is a product "issue" but, rather, a subjective opinion. I suggest you remove the option since it has no bearing and only offers a negative reflection and not a converse positive option. Looks like "baiting". And, I think the goal was to query owners and not prospective ones. Anybody can respond to this poll including those with ulterior motives.

Thanks!

Geo


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## fatboyp (Sep 26, 2004)

GEOMAN said:


> I don't think the final question is a product "issue" but, rather, a subjective opinion. I suggest you remove the option since it has no bearing and only offers a negative reflection and not a converse positive option. Looks like "baiting". And, I think the goal was to query owners and not prospective ones. Anybody can respond to this poll including those with ulterior motives.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Geo


I agree.......remove the last box. It's not relevant.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Is there a way to "vote" "no problem" multiple times for owners of more then one light?


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

GEOMAN said:


> I don't think the final question is a product "issue" but, rather, a subjective opinion. I suggest you remove the option since it has no bearing and only offers a negative reflection and not a converse positive option. Looks like "baiting". And, I think the goal was to query owners and not prospective ones. Anybody can respond to this poll including those with ulterior motives.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Geo


I put that option in there specifically for the "haters", to give them a place to voice their opinion, without screwing with the poll results. If I had multiple warranties and failures, I would check the last option, as well.... being that you can pick more than one answer.
I think the No Problems answer, is all the positive you could ask for.

I see you voted for No Problems....


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

fatboyp said:


> I agree.......remove the last box. It's not relevant.


I don't see a way to edit the poll, just the message..... any help?


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## VaskaS (Aug 19, 2009)

moggy82 said:


> I had 6 for me and mates all with no problems, obviously i kept the brightest and 5 mode version. For the price of this i cant see how you make anything much better, especially if you counter in labour, id charge £20 ($32) PH minimum so if it took more than 2 hours plus parts, really wouldn't be worth it


I'm not going to argue about the point that MS is nowdays the best choice for an average cyclist, but there are at least two reasons why I wouldn't buy one FOR MYSELF:
1 MS intereferes with my POLAR HRM (it really does).
2 I'm a headlamp manufacturer, and in case I'd wish to have a bar light I'll just pick one of my lights and instead of headgear attach it to a bar clamp 
Taking into account the fact that my clients are mostly XC-skiers, rogainers and orienteering sportsmen who train and compete using HRM, I doubt if anyone of them should use MS wihtout refashioning.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

VaskaS said:


> I'm not going to argue about the point that MS is nowdays the best choice for an average cyclist, but there are at least two reasons why I wouldn't buy one FOR MYSELF:
> 1 MS intereferes with my POLAR HRM (it really does).
> 2 I'm a headlamp manufacturer, and in case I'd wish to have a bar light I'll just pick one of my lights and instead of headgear attach it to a bar clamp
> Taking into account the fact that my clients are mostly XC-skiers, rogainers and orienteering sportsmen who train and compete using HRM, I doubt if anyone of them should use MS wihtout refashioning.


This wasn't your objection the other day. I think you brought up the battery balancing circuitry. How about you post a complete list. Geoman and SingleTrackStore might address some of the issues.


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

this isnt poll related.....but i just got my magicshine and it appears the battery is fully charged when i took it out of the box. should i go ahead and charge it for a few hours so it doesnt die out on my first trail ride?

i know its probably a stupid(or very stupid) question, but this is the first light set ive owned since the days of lead acid batteries  i know these arent supposed to get a memory but i guess im asking if it would harm the battery to 'top off' the charge before rides if its not fully discharged.

and btw i did purchase it from geoman for the record, and it all appears to be all good--bright as heck! im no light expert but im happy with it!

thanks!


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Originally posted by VaskaS........

So please feel free to post your opinion in the "headlamp manufacturer, XC-skiers, rogainers and orienteering sportsmen who train and compete using HRM" forum.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

nick d said:


> this isnt poll related.....but i just got my magicshine and it appears the battery is fully charged when i took it out of the box. should i go ahead and charge it for a few hours so it doesnt die out on my first trail ride?
> 
> i know its probably a stupid(or very stupid) question, but this is the first light set ive owned since the days of lead acid batteries  i know these arent supposed to get a memory but i guess im asking if it would harm the battery to 'top off' the charge before rides if its not fully discharged.
> 
> ...


He pre-charges them before shipping. The included instructions detail how and when to charge it. If you are worried, then plug it in the charger. You can charge it until the charger indicator turns green.


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## blooper (Sep 27, 2005)

A friend of mine just bought one and it seems very nice. At 85.00 I would buy one if I needed a light.

Brian


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

VaskaS said:


> I
> Taking into account the fact that my clients are mostly XC-skiers, rogainers and orienteering sportsmen who train and compete using HRM, I doubt if anyone of them should use MS wihtout refashioning.


Wow, that must be a huge market! :madman:


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## VaskaS (Aug 19, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> This wasn't your objection the other day. I think you brought up the battery balancing circuitry. How about you post a complete list. Geoman and SingleTrackStore might address some of the issues.


I don't use balancing cirquitry but use three-wire charger to charge the cells separately. Two-, four- or six-cell 7,2 V battery with 2,5 hr/5 hr/7,5 hr runtime on max. Weight with headgear less than 3,5 oz (without battery). 1 x MC-E M-bin with 600 torch-lm on max. Modes: 80 lm, 200 lm, 600 lm and 40 seconds turbomode of 1200 lm. Custom modifications: 2 x MC-E and 4 x MC-E.
Looks like this:








Internal cirquitry:









I'm not planning to sell abroad at least till summer because I hardly can satisfy home demands.


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## VaskaS (Aug 19, 2009)

gmcttr said:


> Originally posted by VaskaS........
> 
> So please feel free to post your opinion in the "headlamp manufacturer, XC-skiers, rogainers and orienteering sportsmen who train and compete using HRM" forum.


Why! Don't active bike-riders use HRM nowdays?
Maybe there is no bike-orienteering and bike-rogaining? Or XC-skiers don't use bikes for summer training?


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

Erm... Magicshine doesn't interfere with my Polar 725... You're just like JohnJo, when your arguments are discredited you find something else to complain about.

Neither of you are exactly neutral anyways...


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

sdcadbiker said:


> Erm... Magicshine doesn't interfere with my Polar 725... You're just like JohnJo, when your arguments are discredited you find something else to complain about.
> 
> Neither of you are exactly neutral anyways...




Let's see, I get whacked when I asked about Lupine's marketing and saying that unless they come out with something better their prices will decline in the face of competition from the low end - like MS.

Then I get whacked when I question MS's reliability, marketing, and unsubstantiated comments.

Hmm.

So where exactly am I biased?

J.


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## CrashedAgain (Oct 20, 2009)

*Polar interference*

VaskaS-I just received a MagicShine. I usually wear a Polar heart monitor. Can you describe the interference symptoms and I will watch for this on my next night ride.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

JohnJ80 said:


> Let's see, I get whacked when I asked about Lupine's marketing and saying that unless they come out with something better their prices will decline in the face of competition from the low end - like MS.
> 
> Then I get whacked when I question MS's reliability, marketing, and unsubstantiated comments.
> 
> J.


I guess that settles it, you are wacked.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

CrashedAgain said:


> VaskaS-I just received a MagicShine. I usually wear a Polar heart monitor. Can you describe the interference symptoms and I will watch for this on my next night ride.


For what it's worth, I have problems with my garmin 705 if I get it too close to my lights. I think the switching circuitry in the light control interferes with the GPS reception. If i move it away from the light, then no problem.

J.


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## arashi (Jan 15, 2009)

So far no problems and when I thought I had a problem (ended up being user error...charger plugged into wall socket that was connected to a light switch that was turned off! DOH!!!) Geoman was there to offer assistance right away. I think Geoman's c/s makes this light an even greater value! You would normally only get that kind of service from high end products. It's nice to buy an item at a great price and still get great support. I think that's what really made this light such a huge success. :thumbsup: I have converted 8 friends to Magicshine owner (all bought from Geoman!) and 3 of them already have high end lights from Nightrider, Cygolite but still couldnt' resist the great value of this light.


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## skeered1 (Jul 30, 2007)

VaskaS said:


> I'm not going to argue about the point that MS is nowdays the best choice for an average cyclist, but there are at least two reasons why I wouldn't buy one FOR MYSELF:
> 1 MS intereferes with my POLAR HRM (it really does).
> 2 I'm a headlamp manufacturer, and in case I'd wish to have a bar light I'll just pick one of my lights and instead of headgear attach it to a bar clamp
> Taking into account the fact that my clients are mostly XC-skiers, rogainers and orienteering sportsmen who train and compete using HRM, I doubt if anyone of them should use MS wihtout refashioning.


 Assuming you're a rogainer by the picture - any results? New pics to compare to the old one?

If you use a Polar HRM, do you use the "220 - age" etc. equation for fitness reference? I would like to know where 220 came from.

Now on the kinder side, you're saying that you'd be "able to make a more bright, handy and reliable light, weighing less and all for the same amount of money " but unfortunately you're too busy w/ local biz. Hmmmm, how about outsourcing it to China? Otherwise goodluck competing w/ them. I says, If this super VaskaS lighting system don't materialize by next summer then you're just full of shyts - pls prove me wrong on that! please.....

I'm serious....


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

JohnJ80 said:


> So where exactly am I biased?
> 
> J.


You can roll your eyes til you're blue in the face but you will still be baised. Both you and Vaska are seeing MS eating into your potential market. You are both obviously experienced DIY'ers and entitled to your opinion but comments from both of you have to be viewed through this filter.

By talking down this product in these forums are you not as guilty as you claim Geoman to be? :nono:

DMD.


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## cheaplx (Nov 11, 2009)

*Ms*

Calm down YOU GUYS !!!!!!!!
There is enough lumens in that light to make anyone happy, unles you are some freak or snob.Just settle down and do more riding so you are tired to talk too much.
m.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

cheaplx said:


> Calm down YOU GUYS !!!!!!!!
> There is enough lumens in that light to make anyone happy, unles you are some freak or snob.Just settle down and do more riding so you are tired to talk too much.
> m.


Sure this is posted in the correct thread?


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

I used mine for the first time tonight, im very happy with it so far! was very bright, even brighter than one of my friends HID lights(dont remember what kind). Was brighter than my friends minewts also. Battery lasted the whole ride....no issues, it just worked.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

nick d said:


> I used mine for the first time tonight, im very happy with it so far! was very bright, even brighter than one of my friends HID lights(dont remember what kind). Was brighter than my friends minewts also. Battery lasted the whole ride....no issues, it just worked.


I used mine for the first time tonight. One on bars, and one on helmet. No previous experience to compare it to, so i can just say that it was a very enjoyable ride. It was brighter than most other lights on the ride, my friends with lights were impressed, and it sounds like there will be several orders from boise in the next couple of days.


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## Biscuit Pants (Jun 26, 2006)

Rode with one handlebar mount this week,On high the battery lasted 2 hours 10 minutes before going red. After turning red I went to medium mode. and rode back with no issues. I also had my L&M arc as a helmet light. They made a good combo because the Arc reaches out down the trail and the MS lights up what's in front of you.


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## wingnuts73 (Jan 20, 2009)

Wow! Just look at those poll numbers!!!!

110 with no problems
1 light failed
3 batteries failed
4 Haters

It's amazing that people can bash this light for the price-point and rider it is targeted at.

To those haters, I guess I'm just curious if you have to buy the very best of every purchase you've ever made regardless of the final cost and performance gains. Is every single component on your bike of the XTR/X-0/etc line? Do people who run a LX front derailleur need to be kept off the trails and do you need to constantly remind them that your front derailleur is better and you wouldn’t be caught dead with that garbage on your bike?

It's baffling to me as to why such a product, on its way to proving what a tremendous value it really is, can be loved by the masses and hated by only a few. I too have read most of these posts to the point I’ve wanted to scratch my eyes out. And after filtering through the ridiculous amount of data, comparisons and specifications I still come to the conclusion that my MS may be my best bike related purchase of the entire year!

I don’t think I’ve quite read every single one of GeoMan’s posts, but from what I’ve read he’s more than earned my respect and business. To those who come on here and tell us why MS are garbage and how they can build it better, go ahead and build it better, but after reading how you feel the need to slam others for their product I certainly won’t be buying anything from you.

FWIW, if I was making a competitive product and was testing the MS and my HRM started acting funny, I would put two fingers on my wrist and manually double check that elevated heart rate before you go blaming the HRM. It’s a natural reaction, my heart rate increased too when I first turned on the MS!


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## rottenron (May 14, 2009)

Bought 14 of these for my friends and I. Probably about 70 plus rides on them between us. Not one single even minor problem. I've "sold" at least another 10 to other people who have seen ours on the trails here in Victoria BC and then bought some of their own. I don't really understand why someone would buy anything else, and I've owned several Niterider, Lupine and Cygolite products over the last 25 years.


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## skeered1 (Jul 30, 2007)

I second the above post. It looks like most of the MS critics also own a more expensive lighting system w/c should really be better. You get what you pay for, eh! The MS works and is very AFFORDABLE for most bikers......c'mon how bright can you go w/out offending other trail users, wildlife included?


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## cheaplx (Nov 11, 2009)

lidarman said:


> Sure this is posted in the correct thread?


Hi Lidarman, that was a perfect place to comment about MS.
Ride on


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

wingnuts73 said:


> Wow! Just look at those poll numbers!!!!
> 
> 110 with no problems
> 1 light failed
> ...


couldnt have said it better myself!:thumbsup:


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I'm one w/ both expensive lights (DiNotte 800L/400L) and the MS.

I've not chimed in yet on the poll as I've only had the MS for a month.

To date, it has performed w/o any problems. The batteries run time is less than a month ago due to the cold but this is the case w/ most batteries.

The MS is not as bright as the 800L and the beam is not as good. It is brighter than the 400L but not by a lot. I would guess the MS to be somewhere between 500-550 lumens.

All in all, a steal for $85.00

I'll chime in the poll after 6 mos of use. 

The DiNottes have been flawless. A little over a year old.

MB


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> 400L but not by a lot. I would guess the MS to be somewhere between 500-550 lumens.
> 
> MB


Very good estimation.

Someone posted some data from a German site where a fellow used an integrating sphere to study lights and got a number of 550 lumens for the MS, He compared it to a $400 Lupine Tesla 4 with output of 600 lumens. The spec on the lupine was 700 lumens.

I think 550 is great myself. With light and the eye response, we are dealing with a log scale so 550 compared to 600 is damn good. The fact the the light doesn't put out the specified 900 lumens is an issue but seems everyone realizes that and is forgiving such a lie.


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## Tweezak (Aug 24, 2008)

*I lied*

I had to put "I'd never buy this inferior product" so I could see the results.

It would be interesting to run this poll again in 6 months and a year. Of course, you can get the same answers from the product reviews.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Tweezak said:


> It would be interesting to run this poll again in 6 months and a year. Of course, you can get the same answers from the product reviews.


The poll a year from now will be about whether everyone likes their 1500 lumen, $50 magicshine-2 lights.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Is there a new light in the works for Magicshine?


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

zarr said:


> Is there a new light in the works for Magicshine?


I knew I could start a good rumor.

I am alluding to the rapid pace and economics of emerging technologies. Seems in the electronics world, everything you buy is obsolete a few months later. You don't have to actually worry about it breaking first.


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## AceMulder (Sep 28, 2006)

wingnuts73 said:


> It's amazing that people can bash this light for the price-point and rider it is targeted at.


Agreed--which tells you that the haters are either:

A. People whose market for their product is being cut into, or,

B. People who forked out much more for a light that isn't any better or only marginally better and have to justify/rationalize the purchase in their own minds.

There really isn't a reasonable, objective argument to be made against the purchase of this light given its price and performance.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Actually, I hope they are successful so it drives down the light price points in the market.

Unfortunately, for a product that has been out a short time, a failure rate of ~4% is not great since there are, no doubt, other failures to come. The sample size is small and the survey not scientific, but the outgoing quality levels are not all that great based on the results of this poll.

I don't know what the failure rates are with other manufacturers, but if any of them have failures in this range (and presuming it continues), then this is not one of the most reliable electronics products on the market. Given that it is going to go into a rough environment (lots of vibration), we can probably expect more failures in use.

J.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

JohnJ80 said:


> Actually, I hope they are successful so it drives down the light price points in the market.
> 
> Unfortunately, for a product that has been out a short time, a failure rate of ~4% is not great since there are, no doubt, other failures to come. The sample size is small and the survey not scientific, but the outgoing quality levels are not all that great based on the results of this poll.
> 
> ...


This poll cannot be any more than a point of interest for us.

It does not allow more than one result for multiple light owners and it does not poll the other 10's of thousands of MS owners that do not frequent these forums.


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## Popper252 (Jan 24, 2007)

zarr said:


> Is there a new light in the works for Magicshine?


I've heard rumors of a new tail light design by magicshine that is supposed to be out by the end of the year.

Other than that I'm not really sure about anything new.

I probably wouldn't expect to see anything new until the p7 led is eclipsed by something more efficient/brighter.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Popper252 said:


> I probably wouldn't expect to see anything new until the p7 led is eclipsed by something more efficient/brighter.


That happened last year with the MC-E(despite the identical lumen claims the Crees tend to be a little brighter, SSC is complaining Cree aren't sending them the good stuff), and again this year the SST50/90( +1000/+2000lm) and this year with the XPG too if you're just talking efficiency (+100lm/W vs 75 for the P7).

Actually a 1.2A XP-G magicshine would make an ok roadie light. Tighter/brighter spot than the P7. Halve the battery pack to save a few bucks.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

sdcadbiker said:


> You can roll your eyes til you're blue in the face but you will still be baised. Both you and Vaska are seeing MS eating into your potential market. You are both obviously experienced DIY'ers and entitled to your opinion but comments from both of you have to be viewed through this filter.
> 
> By talking down this product in these forums are you not as guilty as you claim Geoman to be? :nono:
> 
> DMD.


For what it's worth, I've never built a light in my life nor do I have any intention of doing so although I am perfectly capable of doing so - I don't think the value is there for the hours expended. Therefore, I have no "market share" as in zero. I own lights from 3 manufacturers and I'll buy the next one that comes along that meets my needs the best.

So, basically, conjecture all you want. You plainly are in the business of making assumptions, then judging them to be fact and then making more wild assumptions based on those fabricated facts.

I want to see a reliable, high bright light that is modestly priced so it brings down the pricing on all of these lights. Magicshine looks like they might be heading in that direction, but I still see reason to be concerned about their reliability. Hopefully they fix that and have the best light in their class at great price that causes all the others to have to meet the competition. Right now, doesn't look like they are there yet.

J.


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

Who said this?:

_To give you the reason for my question, I'm looking at making a business decision on some LED technology (I own the business). _

Do tell...


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

BTW, I'm done with this; I'm going to ride my bike... and enjoy my lights!


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

sdcadbiker said:


> BTW, I'm done with this; I'm going to ride my bike... and enjoy my lights!


Amen. Just finished ride number two. I had a great time and light is not a problem. Two more people were excited about my lights and asking for links to order them. I am even down-selling them ... "i have no idea how reliable they are."


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

AceMulder said:


> Agreed--which tells you that the haters are either:
> 
> A. People whose market for their product is being cut into, or,
> 
> B. People who forked out much more for a light that isn't any better or only marginally better and have to justify/rationalize the purchase in their own minds.


Exactly! And it's funny how much time they spend in these Magicshine threads! Especially the "B's" LOL!
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a false vote or two in the poll.


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## GR1822 (Jun 23, 2009)

JohnJ80 said:


> For what it's worth, I have problems with my garmin 705 if I get it too close to my lights. I think the switching circuitry in the light control interferes with the GPS reception. If i move it away from the light, then no problem.
> 
> J.


Really?!
My 705 in on it's way, and I'm looking to open a magicshine Christmas morning.
What kind of probs? 
How far do you have to keep the units apart?


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

ajmelin said:


> Really?!
> My 705 in on it's way, and I'm looking to open a magicshine Christmas morning.
> What kind of probs?
> How far do you have to keep the units apart?


Most reports I have seen point to the battery as the source of interference. If you have a problem, try moving the battery away first.


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## pcrestroller (May 3, 2007)

I had problems with two batteries- One would not charge and the other developed a short in the connector. I must be unlucky judging from the poll results. However, both were immediately taken care of by Geoman. Excellent, hassle free customer service and overall I'm still very happy with the lights.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

ajmelin said:


> Really?!
> My 705 in on it's way, and I'm looking to open a magicshine Christmas morning.
> What kind of probs?
> How far do you have to keep the units apart?


I have the 705 on the stem and had the light mounted so that they were literally a few millimeters apart. That causes the 705 to pause and restart (when set to auto pause) very frequently. When I moved them apart several inches, problem seemed to go away. There seemed to be no problem with the light off, only when on.

I think the reason is the switching circuits in the light engine that control the brightness were providing enough emitted RF to confuse the sensitive GPS receiver.

I would suspect that if this were a problem with a battery - hard to see how that would happen since it's a pretty passive device - it is most likely conducted EMI from the light into the battery. If the light is running at a decent frequency, because it is switching some significant power, it is possible to get a fair bit of emitted emi would be my guess. The only way I could see a battery being a problem is if it were really close to the receiver and acting as a physical block to the GPS receiver. However, that would seem to be unlikely. But, I could be wrong - these sorts of gremlins are hard to figure out sometimes unless you have the right equipment.

J.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

sdcadbiker said:


> Who said this?:
> 
> _To give you the reason for my question, I'm looking at making a business decision on some LED technology (I own the business). _
> 
> Do tell...


I did a long time ago, and it had nothing to do with bike lights (it was an industrial application for LEDs as componets) and nothing came of it. You also took it out of context.

And from that you deduced that I am making bike lights and even have market share? Please let me know what my business is so that I might collect on how well it must be doing with the market share that you allege I need to protect. What sort of fantasy world do you live in? I've never made a bike light and never will.

Quit making stuff up. It's idiotic and makes you look foolish.

J.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

JohnJ80 said:


> I have the 705 on the stem and had the light mounted so that they were literally a few millimeters apart. That causes the 705 to pause and restart (when set to auto pause) very frequently. When I moved them apart several inches, problem seemed to go away. There seemed to be no problem with the light off, only when on.
> 
> I think the reason is the switching circuits in the light engine that control the brightness were providing enough emitted RF to confuse the sensitive GPS receiver.
> 
> ...


Likely from the battery cable. Its not a constant load, it pulses so you get some RF noise off the cable.

The buckpuck datasheet says to add a 220uF 50V cap on the input if the cable is over 18 inch.


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## heatstroke (Jul 1, 2003)

yesh - i need to vote 30 times for my bike shop. 28 good lights, 2 dead lights, 1 dead charger.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

*Memorable Quotes from the 2009 Troll of the Year..............*

Is it necessary for you to be such a jerk to people? I'd also suggest learning how to spell.

J.

If they can pull off the brand equity play - good for them. However, that is much more difficult, as in next to impossible, with tech products vs fashion products. But, maybe Lupine is a fashion product - beats me.

j.

I'll be right out on the next plane. Why don't we meet in Korea. I'll be there week after next. But some advice - don't give up your day job looking to do get into marketing anytime soon.

J.

I'm glad you like your lights (actually, I don't really care - just being polite). But you miss the point that this isn't a me vs you on whose light is better. Your fascination with what I think is touching.

J.

I'll have to remember that strategy - make a personal attack instead of dealing with the issue. That ever work for you?

J.

I understand how difficult it is to be objective when you've spent a lot of money on something.

J.

For all of this, note too that I have not stooped to calling anyone names nor ascribing negative characteristics to them. I am "egotistical" or at least care enough about my reputation enough to not stoop to that level of immaturity. Also, I've found that that does not do much to advance discussion nor much of anything else. Maybe you might want to think about the same thing or "take that on board."

J.


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## A girl from Seattle (May 3, 2007)

*Here's another review*

I'll just stick my review onto this thread since there are enough Magicshine threads on this forum already. I've had mine for a couple of weeks and I've decided it's not the best light on the market. There are better, brighter lights out there. But they all cost hundreds of dollars more. The Magicshine does seem to be the best light on the market for the price, by a wide margin.

It's not as bright as some reviews led me to believe -- cars don't flash their brights at me, I can't see things that are really far down the trail -- but it's sufficient for a night commute. There are times when I wish for a little more light, like on dark rainy nights with lots of wet leaves and people walking on the trail dressed head-to-toe in black (it happens). I think the estimates of 500-600 lumens sound about right.

One thing that really bothers me is the lack of an on/off switch. I hate having to unplug the light from the battery so the green indicator light doesn't drain the battery. The plug is really hard to get undone, which makes me worry that repeated unplugging will take a toll on the plug and wires. Also, I wish they offered for purchase a very short cable for those who are mounting the battery pack on the stem and only need a 5-inch cable to the light. I have way too much cable and have to wrap it around stuff, ruining the clean look I would otherwise have.

My switch sometimes doesn't work. Usually I push it gently and it cycles through the high, med, low, and blinking settings as I push it. Sometimes I push it and it does nothing. Then I push it 2 or 3 more times and still nothing. Then I push it several times really hard and it finally works. I hope that doesn't get worse as time goes by.

Despite those minor complaints, I really like this light overall. The battery is absolutely tiny, a HUGE improvement over the NiMH battery on my last light. The beam is very nicely distributed, no annoying dark rings or spots, and the beam color is not too cold. The whole package is nice looking and performs great considering it cost $85. If I spent $400, I would get a slightly brighter light with an off switch and maybe a few more options. Not sure that's worth the extra 300 bucks. I'm pretty picky about equipment and usually just spend more to get the best of everything, but I'm happy with this purchase and glad I don't have to worry about a $400 investment. If it breaks or something better comes out, I'm only out $85. It's hard to regret that!


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

odtexas said:


> *Memorable Quotes from the 2009 Troll of the Year..............*
> 
> *Is it necessary for you to be such a jerk to people?* I'd also suggest learning how to spell.
> 
> ...


Pls re-read the ones in red. They may be helpful. I'm also amazed that you would spend so much time trying to hunt me for saying things that you might want to re-examine for being taken completely out of context.

If you want to get into it with me, try sending me a PM so it doesn't bother everyone else.

J.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

All from one thread


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## Rolling Shutter (Nov 25, 2009)

odtexas said:


> All from one thread


Serious question for you:

Who is forcing you to read his, or any other, posts that cause you so much distress?

Follow up question:

Were you a hall monitor or a crossing guard in elementary school?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Am I understanding correctly that the light switch stays lit up long as he battery is plugged in? Has anyone found a way around that ?


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## A girl from Seattle (May 3, 2007)

Zarr, that is correct. The green indicator light stays on unless you unplug the light from the battery. In fairness, I did leave it plugged in with the green light on all day at work the other day with no noticeable impact on battery run time, but it just seems wrong to leave it on for extended periods. Does anyone know how long you can leave the green light glowing before it drains the battery?


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

I can't believe it draws much.


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## midgedork (Nov 26, 2008)

I've had the light from geoman approximately a month.  I bike commute to work everyday 10 miles one way, So i've used it about 20 times. It's an amazing light for the price. Many people have asked about the light as I come into work and 3 of my buddies have all ready bought it. I'm sold on the product being the best $/lumen.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*Did anybody else notice...*

Stefan Lupine (the real deal) voted in the poll? Wonder if he got his Magicshine from Geoman? If not, he should have! :thumbsup:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

scar said:


> Stefan Lupine (the real deal) voted in the poll? Wonder if he got his Magicshine from Geoman? If not, he should have! :thumbsup:


And did anyone notice that Geoman has had no problems with any of his lights?


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Rolling Shutter said:


> Were you a hall monitor or a crossing guard in elementary school?


Plus, he waited till post 62? He is clearly out of touch with this issue.


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## WeakMite (May 11, 2004)

I wonder if the rest of the bike lighting industry is waiting around for the (inevitable?) Magicshine failures to pile up and drive the light buying public back to their $400-$800 offerings?


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## Rolling Shutter (Nov 25, 2009)

scar said:


> Stefan Lupine (the real deal) voted in the poll? Wonder if he got his Magicshine from Geoman? If not, he should have! :thumbsup:


Thanks for pointing that out.

How unprofessional.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

classic thread...I just ordered mine as my Night Rider is in for service again.

Get a group buy going, minimum order 150 units: http://magicshine.en.alibaba.com/product/255855099-200924486/bike_lamp.html

China is scary..and how embarrassing that the owner of Lupine posted he had a failure...As a business owner I wouldn't have come close to touching that poll, even if it was true??...
Das ist nicht gut....Schultz!!!!


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

Rolling Shutter said:


> Thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> How unprofessional.


And how is that any different (and any more unprofessional) from GEOMAN participation in the same poll (among "No problems" group, of course)???


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## Sanoske312 (Aug 4, 2008)

this is my second set lucky for me i bought it through Geoman. in the middle of my first ride i hit a bump and my light head just went out i was in complete shock. I contacted Geoman and he replaced the whole unit next day. since i received the new on i haven't had an issue and have put about 200 miles on the thing


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

ortelius said:


> And how is that any different (and any more unprofessional) from GEOMAN participation in the same poll (among "No problems" group, of course)???


Simple, do you really believe that Stefan Lupine REALLY bought a Magischine? I doubt it, but ok, I suppose it's possible, so let's assume he did. 
Now it just so happens that HIS failed?? Come on!

Like I said earlier, for what ever reasons, some people are magischine "haters", and I am SURE there are some bogus votes in that poll by people who just want to throw off the results.


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

fightnut said:


> Simple, do you really believe that Stefan Lupine REALLY bought a Magischine? I doubt it, but ok, I suppose it's possible, so let's assume he did.
> Now it just so happens that HIS failed?? Come on!


Using your own analogy: I'm sure hundreds (probably thousands) of magicshine lights went through GEOMAN's hand. Now it just happens that NONE OF THOSE failed on him? Come on!  After all, he (or his team) is the one that test all lights before they put them on the market, right? And he reports the findings and propose the improvements to the manufacturer. And he had no problems with none of them? Come on!

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Geoman. It simply doesn't seem fair to me that people are pointing fingers at someone, yet don't want to see the same thing on the oposite side (and judge that with the same standards).



fightnut said:


> Like I said earlier, for what ever reasons, some people are magischine "haters", and I am SURE there are some bogus votes in that poll by people who just want to throw off the results.


My impression from this forum is: yes, there are some MS "haters" here. But there is far far more MS "fanatic believers" around here. And I agree with you, there probably are some bogous votes in this poll, but they are probably on both sides. I don't know of any case of those votes that reported some failures, that has been deservedly proclaimed untruthful (your rolling eyes on Stefan's vote are simply not sufficient argument). On the other side, one magicshine light owner himself reported that his light died on his first ride and he had to get a replacement from Geoman. Yet, he still voted as "No problems".  Just check one post above yours, and see how he voted.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

ortelius said:


> Using your own analogy: I'm sure hundreds (probably thousands) of magicshine lights went through GEOMAN's hand. Now it just happens that NONE OF THOSE failed on him? Come on!  After all, he (or his team) is the one that test all lights before they put them on the market, right? And he reports the findings and propose the improvements to the manufacturer. And he had no problems with none of them? Come on!


We don't know that Geo was voting for ALL of the lights that he's sold. I would find it a lot more believable that he owns one or two himself and was voting for those.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

fightnut said:


> We don't know that Geo was voting for ALL of the lights that he's sold. I would find it a lot more believable that he owns one or two himself and was voting for those.


Frankly, I was suspect of this "poll" from the beginning. Anyone can post whether their intentions are good or not... whether they actually own the light or not. Case in point. The poll is flawed no matter the outcome but I'm happy to read the testimonials posted.

I do ride with a MS900 and I haven't had any trouble at all so I qualify. I only counted one light. 

Plus, we aren't the only ones selling this lightset. The assumption that we are is incorrect.

Have a great day everybody!

Geo


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## Stefan Lupine (Aug 23, 2005)

Rolling Shutter said:


> Thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> How unprofessional.


First of all I am not the owner of Lupine. Secondly, yes we bought a MS but directly from DX and it failed. What is wrong with posting the result. Prefere me taking part on pools anonymously?

@ moderators Feel free to delete my vote. I will not take part on pools anymore. Sorry for the trouble I caused


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

FWIW, I don't mind Stefan posting on the poll at all. Lupine makes a great product and GeoManGear supports them. I figured he had one or two already. That qualifies him better than some that have voted, for sure.

As said, this poll is flawed and the results are dubious at best. I don't blame the author either. There's no better system. Anybody can post regardless of whether they purchased or even used one of the lightsets. But it's been fun, nonetheless. 

No worries, Stefan, as far as I'm concerned.

Geo


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

I would think that most light manufacturers would have a couple of MS lights to see what the competition is up to.

All owners votes are welcome by me. 

I just wish that owners of more than one light could vote once for each light too reflect a more accurate count.


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## Tazil (Feb 19, 2007)

My MS is on the way and im based in the UK and im aware of the US plug.
Will this adapter work?

https://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6096/dscn1179j.jpg

https://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5322/dscn1180l.jpg


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## steve66 (Oct 25, 2009)

Bazzie said:


> My MS is on the way and im based in the UK and im aware of the US plug.
> Will this adapter work?


That should work just fine. The charger will accept 100-240V 50/60Hz AC power, so all you need is the plug adapter.


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## Tazil (Feb 19, 2007)

My adapter says 250v a.c in the second picture . Is this good enough? In the first picture it says, for shavers and tooth brushes only.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

I vote Geoman MVP for most bases covered in one thread.


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## chill winston (Oct 16, 2006)

My light failed after a month of moderate use. It isn't the battery pack, because my battery powers a buddy's light just fine. I think it has something to do with the wiring heading into the lighthead unit because I was monkeying around with it last night and I can get the light to switch on intermittently by wiggling/pushing in the wire where it heads into the lighthead unit. I emailed Geoman last night and already this morning a new light is on its way to me. The light is otherwise top notch and this is the first problem reported among any of our group that all have them. Because of the price, I will probably buy another for my other bike so as to not have to switch it around. Thx Geoman for the quick reponse on my issue.:thumbsup:


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## AceMulder (Sep 28, 2006)

chill winston said:


> My light failed after a month of moderate use. It isn't the battery pack, because my battery powers a buddy's light just fine. I think it has something to do with the wiring heading into the lighthead unit because I was monkeying around with it last night and I can get the light to switch on intermittently by wiggling/pushing in the wire where it heads into the lighthead unit. I emailed Geoman last night and already this morning a new light is on its way to me. The light is otherwise top notch and this is the first problem reported among any of our group that all have them. *Because of the price, I will probably buy another for my other bike so as to not have to switch it around.* Thx Geoman for the quick reponse on my issue.:thumbsup:


And therein is the crux of the whole debate--and why there really is no debate. You can buy two of these lights on the chance (whatever it is) that one fails and you'll still be way ahead in terms of dollars paid/quality of light as compared to all other lights. I think that's where the MS haters lose focus--if this light cost $2.00 they would still argue that its not as good quality as the $500 lights (to which the answer is, "yeah? so what?").

This is the best light you can buy for the money--period end of story, no debate. You can buy a better light for a lot more money. Point is its like comparing a Toyota Camry to Mercedes 500 SL--you'll get better qaulity for a helluva lot more money but it simply is not worth all the extra dough unless you happen to have the extra $80,000 to blow. So if you have an extra $300 to $400 to pay for a marginally better light, then go for it!!!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

AceMulder said:


> And therein is the crux of the whole debate--and why there really is no debate. You can buy two of these lights on the chance (whatever it is) that one fails and you'll still be way ahead in terms of dollars paid/quality of light as compared to all other lights. I think that's where the MS haters lose focus--if this light cost $2.00 they would still argue that its not as good quality as the $500 lights (to which the answer is, "yeah? so what?").
> 
> This is the best light you can buy for the money--period end of story, no debate. You can buy a better light for a lot more money. Point is its like comparing a Toyota Camry to Mercedes 500 SL--you'll get better qaulity for a helluva lot more money but it simply is not worth all the extra dough unless you happen to have the extra $80,000 to blow. So if you have an extra $300 to $400 to pay for a marginally better light, then go for it!!!


plus the name of it is cool. ...Magicshine. ...Reminds me of Dolomite. ...Yeah.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

AceMulder said:


> This is the best light you can buy for the money--period end of story, no debate. You can buy a better light for a lot more money. !


Exactly, this is why the whole debate is so funny to me. People are comparing an $85 light to $500-600 lights! LOL! Why would you do that?
Compare it to OTHER $85 lights. Nothing in the $85 range even comes close.

So all these guys that are "dissing" it by comparing it to high end L&M's and such are really just showing what a great light the MS is. I mean, just the fact that they are being put up against each other says something about the MS.


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## Tazil (Feb 19, 2007)

Just received my MS. The MS seems fully charged from factory and a green light on the plug when i try to charge. Should i still charge the the full 4 hours now or is it safe to use it from factory?


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Go ahead and use it.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

Bazzie said:


> Just received my MS. The MS seems fully charged from factory and a green light on the plug when i try to charge. Should i still charge the the full 4 hours now or is it safe to use it from factory?


you do not need to charge it ... and probably shouldn't. just go ride with it for a couple hours and then charge it.


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## Tazil (Feb 19, 2007)

Stopped charging been 25min. Say i went out later and it didn't indicate red should i still charge it?


Apologies for these questions asked before.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

Bazzie said:


> Stopped charging been 25min. Say i went out later and it didn't indicate red should i still charge it?
> 
> Apologies for these questions asked before.


The instructions say to use it through about 60% of capacity and then recharge. That would be about 2 hours on high.


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

You might only get 2 hours out of it the first ride too, this is not unusual, you should then get the full 3-3.5 hours after that. That has been my experience anyway!


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## Twenty Times (Mar 27, 2009)

I cannot provide any knowledge on the product yet. However I can say this; numerous people in my club has purchased and praised the product. I asked Santa for it and I hope he comes through! I have been intrigued by night riding for quite some time - however clueless if I will enjoy it or really do it enough. I checked the light prices at (around) $300 for any recommended light was simply impossible to sell to myself, never mind my wife. When MS was brought to my attention, I jumped at it and sent the email to my wife and I am pretty sure she will come through. I told her to I wanted the racer special (this way I will buy a second light for $44.00 (or whatever it was) and have a head and bar lamp.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

i must like them, i just ordered four more from geoman, plus spare parts, and one of the magicshine tactical flashlights also.

I had previously planned to go to DX due to slightly cheaper prices and free shipping but then realized they're in hong kong, which means a much longer wait given the xmas season and postal delays.


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## cheaplx (Nov 11, 2009)

*ms charging*

Bazzie,don't worry about that battery. Lion batts. are very save. You will not discharge them due to PCB in the batt.Just ride and plug it at any time afterwards. I have built RC cars and helis foor some time and always use lipo or lion cells.
Ride on!
Marek:thumbsup:


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

odtexas said:


> *Memorable Quotes from the 2009 Troll of the Year..............*
> 
> Is it necessary for you to be such a jerk to people? I'd also suggest learning how to spell.
> 
> ...


  :thumbsup: you already know him well


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## Rolling Shutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Stefan Lupine said:


> First of all I am not the owner of Lupine. Secondly, yes we bought a MS but directly from DX and it failed.


How...convenient.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> i must like them, i just ordered four more from geoman, plus spare parts, and one of the magicshine tactical flashlights also.
> .


I guess so. So what are you doing with all these lights? Putting them on ebay with a shipping premium?


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## Tazil (Feb 19, 2007)

Out the box factory charge, managed to get between 2-3hours on low then the switch started to go yellow and when i switched off it was red. Tomorrow should i go ahead and give it the full 4 hour charge?


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

Bazzie said:


> Out the box factory charge, managed to get between 2-3hours on low then the switch started to go yellow and when i switched off it was red. Tomorrow should i go ahead and give it the full 4 hour charge?


yes.

ps. did you get the instruction sheet? i got one, but it came in the shipping box ... not in the light boxes.


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## Tazil (Feb 19, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> yes.
> 
> ps. did you get the instruction sheet? i got one, but it came in the shipping box ... not in the light boxes.


Yellow sheet? The mains went green within 4hours then i disconnected. Does this sound right?


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## cheaplx (Nov 11, 2009)

Bazzie said:


> Yellow sheet? The mains went green within 4hours then i disconnected. Does this sound right?


yep!:thumbsup:


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## Ryan G. (Aug 13, 2004)

Got mine yesterday! Already contracted Syphillis from it and for the price point the light is great. Took it out on a night time commute around the hood and pissed off a few cars in the downtown area. Cannot wait to see it get some poaching action in! Just hope not to get busted


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

I voted for "battery failed" but by that I mean it fell out of its little bag on the stem, into the front wheel and was demolished. Thankfully GeoMan sent us a new one for free!


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

FishMan473 said:


> I voted for "battery failed" but by that I mean it fell out of its little bag on the stem, into the front wheel and was demolished. Thankfully GeoMan sent us a new one for free!


how is that the batteries fault? why not the mount?......or errr, the human?

Geoman should win a customer service award or something.


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

d365 said:


> how is that the batteries fault? why not the mount?......or errr, the human?
> 
> Geoman should win a customer service award or something.


That's my point, there is no category for "battery mount" or "other". The fault probably likes equally between user error and the design of the battery holder.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

FishMan473 said:


> That's my point, there is no category for "battery mount" or "other". The fault probably likes equally between user error and the design of the battery holder.


ummm, mounts failed is a category, but it's all good.


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## dapedaler (Dec 26, 2009)

GEOMAN said:


> I do ride with a MS900 and I haven't had any trouble at all so I qualify. I only counted one light.
> 
> Plus, we aren't the only ones selling this lightset. The assumption that we are is incorrect.
> 
> Geo


Thanks for the plug Geoman. 

I can vote for the two I use and the ones the 10 guys I regularly ride with have. No Problems. The main problem I have seen with all the ones I have sold is water getting into the battery pack. Not much of a problem in New Mexico, but in the midwest, riding in the rain is part of life. The pack are not water proof from the factory. All that is needed though is to rub a little silicone sealer into the ends of the pack. Particularly where the wire exits.









Jim "dapedaler"
Nova Bike Lights
[email protected]


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## circusubet (Aug 5, 2006)

*Whacked*



lidarman said:


> I guess that settles it, you are wacked.


Finally....I get a kick out of his dissertations, but they are tiring after a while....:madman:

Thx,
John


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## dapedaler (Dec 26, 2009)

I think the adapter you have pictured is backwards. It goes from the UK round pins to the US flat prongs. You need to go the other way.

Jim "dapedaler"
Nova Bike Lights
[email protected]


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I just got a racer package from Singletrack Store (an xmas gift from my dad!) and it works great on both batteries.


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

I voted battery.

I have killed 1 but use it on my commuter and in November we had 27 days of rain.

I think I will try dapedaler`s silicone trick on my current.

No problem with the other 2 I also own.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

bumpity.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Bump
How are we doing?


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## Adirondack Blues (Mar 4, 2004)

My MS900 from Geoman has worked flawlessly for 5 months of mostly winter riding. A lot of the riders in our club have been buying them as well with similar results.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Shouldn't I be able to vote again? I bought a second Magicshine. :thumbsup:


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## johnnyspoke (Sep 15, 2005)

I'll just add that I've had mine since August, used dozens of time initially for trail riding, now through the winter (and snow) commuting. Just got it back out on the trails last week. NO issues whatsoever.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I've had mine since November, and used it throughout the winter on my commuter. Haven't used it much lately, but that will change once my new MTB gets here. I plan on taking it to the trails and see how it does there. I may even get another one for a helmet mount, but that seem like overkill on all but the darkest of nights.

The light has worked flawlessly through good weather and bad, even rain storms. I wrapped the whole battery pack in black electrical tape to waterproof it, and so far that seems to work just fine.


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## J_Hopper (Mar 5, 2005)

I have had mine since December (only just over three full months) and ridden with it numerous times in very rainy weather. I have not had a single problem with it.

*Some commentary on the poll numbers (just my opinion and speculation):*
1- 311 of 346 respondents who actually have the MS didn't report any negative experience with the light.
2- 18 of those 346 had battery problems. I bet all of them either a) had them early on and didn't know to waterproof the battery or b) didn't heed the warnings on these and other boards to waterproof it. Take those 18 out of the equation because they were user-preventable issues, and 311 of 328 are satisfied customers.
3- 6 of the 346 had charger problems. These were probably the early MS customers from Geoman/Singletrack Store or DX customers. Remember, DX was (and maybe still is?) selling the original charger that had problems. In my opinion, those responses could be factored out as well because the issue has been fixed by the manufacturer.
4- 11 of the 346 had what I'm perceiving as actual problems (mount or light failed). Likely, the mount failures were also preventable (ie, using the small o-ring on a large bar, for example). I'd also bet that at least a small portion of the actual light failures were from people doing run-time tests without adequate cooling. Interestingly, one of the light failures was reported by Stefan Lupine.
5- Now, with my speculation, the way I see the numbers is that 11 or less of (346 - 18) 328 had actual non-user preventable problems. At worst, that's around a 3% failure rate, and probably most of those have been taken care of under warranty.

Keep in mind that statistically, those with negative experiences are more likely to respond to a poll (stronger emotions about the subject yield a higher chance one will act on those emotions).

Consider a person who has two or more MSs, such as Pimpbot above. If both have been good lights, he'll likely vote "no problems" one time (though really, it's two positive experiences.) If, on the other hand, one MS was bad and the other was good, he'll likely vote based on the problem he experienced, or a negative vote. In this survey, it'll look like his entire experience with MS was negative, when in reality, it was only half-bad. In practice, I bet there's less than 1% non-user preventable problems.

Compared to other lights that are perceived as higher quality... no manufacturing process is perfect. I bet very few light makers can substantiate a claim of an even lower failure rate.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

That's an awful lot of conjecture/assumption.

On the face of it with the data as presented, it's a 10% failure rate and is not great or acceptable for a product like this. Requirements for user waterproofing of batteries on a bike light is a design flaw and is legitimately represented as a quality issue. Same with charger issues and mount issues. "User preventable" is sort of whitewash since the product needs to be designed to be used as expected by a reasonable user. If it is not clear or protection/design features that are custom and practice in the industry are not included, that is reasonable to consider as a quality issue. As well, failures like this all render the light unusable and potentially stranding the user in a dangerous situation. 

It is just not a reasonable expectation to hold the user accountable for reading internet forums in order to ascertain the proper usage of the product and to then to require them to user waterproof the batteries. Personally, I would be most unhappy with a manufacturer that used this sort of rationalization in order to assess my warranty claim or in jeopardizing my safety. I would think (hope) Magicshine would also agree with that.


J.


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## J_Hopper (Mar 5, 2005)

JohnJ80 said:


> That's an awful lot of conjecture/assumption...


Agreed. That's why I prefaced it with "just my opinion and speculation." I even put it in bold and italics so that it stood out. I don't want to argue with you, we can agree on some things and disagree on other things. It's my opinion.

People, including cyclists on these forums, will often modify things to make them more reliable, last longer, etc. For example, I have several steel-frame bicycles. The manufacturers, in each case, made them without any sort of rust protection inside the frame. I live in a wet area of the world and my bicycles (presumably) were made to be ridden in the rain. Yet, any steel frame if not treated and ridden regularly in the rain, will rust from the inside out. Why don't the manufacturers treat the frames? Why is it left to the user (me) to read these forums to figure out how to prevent rusting from the inside out?


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

WHAT?! No double-blind study by lab rats on saccharine? 

Ho ho... good post, J Hopper. My Magicshine has been very, very good to me, and I'm thinkin' to buy another.


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## J_Hopper (Mar 5, 2005)

I wonder if anyone has actually tried to undermine the poll results?

Raceer2 voted light failed, battery failed, charger failed, mounts failed. Really?


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

JohnJ80 said:


> That's an awful lot of conjecture/assumption.
> 
> On the face of it with the data as presented, it's a 10% failure rate and is not great or acceptable for a product like this. *Requirements for user waterproofing of batteries on a bike light is a design flaw and is legitimately represented as a quality issue.* Same with charger issues and mount issues. "User preventable" is sort of whitewash since the product needs to be designed to be used as expected by a reasonable user. If it is not clear or protection/design features that are custom and practice in the industry are not included, that is reasonable to consider as a quality issue. As well, failures like this all render the light unusable and potentially stranding the user in a dangerous situation.
> 
> ...


It's not a design flaw if the light is not advertised as a "Waterproof" product. That being said, with any of these other problems I would contact the vendor if it were in the warranty period. If the warranty period of 90 days seems too short, then buy two or get a different light.

EDIT: What's funny is that while you're complaining about his speculation, you didn't even vote in the poll. Do you even have one of these lights?


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

No I don't and so I didn't vote. Do I need to own one to do math and to identify speculation?

If I do, my apologies.

J.


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## J_Hopper (Mar 5, 2005)

JohnJ80 said:


> No I don't and so I didn't vote. Do I need to own one to do math and to identify speculation?
> 
> If I do, my apologies.
> 
> J.


Personally, I agree with some of what you said. I agree that a 10% failure rate would be unacceptable. However, I disagree with you that there is an actual 10% failure rate. Some of the failures were likely not failures (ie, Stefan Lupine and Raceer2 among others). Many of the rest were easily preventible. Not a big deal though. We can agree to disagree. You're welcome to spend 3x + the money on an equal light from a "more reputable" maker. I won't try to stop you.

And, no, you don't need a MS to do math and identify speculation. Fortunately, I made it easy for the reader by writing "_*just my opinion and speculation*_." No apology needed.

Also, don't use framesaver in your steel frames. When they rust from the inside out, blame the frame's maker because you should be able to ride them in the rain. Chalk it up as a manufacturer's defect.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Speculation that makes further assumptions gets a bit far afield from the data at hand.

I'd expect actual failure rates on this to be one and probably two orders of magnitude less than even a gross measure like this. [speculation] that seems unlikely to happen even if this poll is skewed.[/speculation]

but it's all moot - unless magicshine decides to share failure rates.

J.


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## J_Hopper (Mar 5, 2005)

JohnJ80 said:


> ... [speculation] that seems unlikely to happen even if this poll is skewed.[/speculation]...J.


JohnJ80, I didn't want an argument, but you brought one on. I feel compelled to reply. By the way, I noticed you've been arguing with those in favor of the MS since the beginning of this thread. Makes me wonder why your steadfast opposition...

I agree... one order of magnitude is 10, 2 is 100. It seems unlikely to me as well that failure rates would be 100 times less than 10%. That would be less than 1 in 1000. I'd expect the MS to have a higher failure rate than 1 in 1000 especially if you're counting user-preventable failures as product failures.

I have a Surly Cross Check. Why does Surly recommend framesaver? Seems to me, based on the fact they recommend treating steel Surly frames with it, that they expect it to rust from the inside out. Yet, my Surly didn't come from the factory treated with framesaver. I learned about the need to treat steel frames from another bike forums. I guess my Surly's defective...

*Bottom line:* when you buy a new product, often times there are things you can do to extend the usable life of the product.

In the case of the MS:

1) if you ride in the rain and your battery is placed where it can get wet (ie, not in a waterproof handlebar bag), waterproofing the battery should be your first priority. If you don't and the battery fails, IT'S YOUR FAULT not MAGICSHINE'S.

2) if you have large-ish bars and you use the small o-ring to mount it and your mount fails [breaks] because YOU put too much tension on it, IT'S YOUR FAULT not MAGICSHINE'S.

3) if your battery is not securely mounted and it falls off and explodes in the spokes [ie, FishMan473], go ahead and call it a defective battery holder. Seems to me IT'S YOUR FAULT not MAGICSHINE'S.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

J_Hopper said:


> In the case of the MS:
> 
> 1) if you ride in the rain and your battery is placed where it can get wet (ie, not in a waterproof handlebar bag), waterproofing the battery should be your first priority. If you don't and the battery fails, IT'S YOUR FAULT not MAGICSHINE'S.


No no, its ip65 rated so you can... oh hang on, the light head is waterproof but perhaps not the battery 

"The anodized aluminum light housing is IP65 O-ring sealed for all-weather use."


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Just to recap and break down the numbers a bit:

Total Votes: 371
People that would never buy it: 27
Actual Votes by people who have used the MS900: 344

*% Based on Users of the MS900*
No Problems: 318 (92.44%)
Light Failed: 9 (2.61%)
Battery Failed: 20 (5.81%)
Charger Failed: 6 (1.74%)
Mount Failed: 2 (0.58%)

As a manufacturer or vendor of the MS, I would be seriously concerned about the battery failure rate. Almost 6% is definitely something to look at, especially if it's within the warranty period. Now, we don't know WHY the battery failed, which is important. We don't know if someone rode in the rain with a non-waterproof battery, dropped it on the ground, ran it over, etc. We also don't know which were manufacturing defects.

I think the other categories are important to look at, but those failure rates seem acceptable for a "bargain" product. And again, many of those failures may have been user error or manufacturing, we just don't know. But since these make up such a small percentage of all the failures, MagicShine would be better off improving the battery pack with the next revision of the product.

Great suggestions here for the battery pack:
1. Waterproofing. Users are already doing this themselves, which is an indication that it's an important (and marketable) feature to have on the product.

2. Battery mount. Many customers already use a secondary retention strap out of velcro, zip ties, etc. to make sure the bag stays put. Come up with a better battery mounting system, and people are less likely to drop the battery or have it fall off on a bumpy ride.

3. Better quality cells and/or circuitry. Some of these failures have to do with the failure of the 18650 cells that are used, or the circuitry and wiring in the battery pack. Choose a different supplier with a higher quality product and you'll improve the quality of the light set.

Just my 2 cents here, but I think if they made those changes and charged $90 instead of $85 they would have a better product without losing any sales. They will have less warranty claims, a better reputation, and will get better recognition.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

I'd agree. I think they need to get those numbers down for total failures to be a fraction of 1%.

Good summary, analysis and suggestion.

J.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Let's keep in mind that anybody can come on here and vote whether they've owned one or not. Also lets keep in mind that we have no idea whether the product was abused, whether it was a manufacturer defect, or just normal wear and tear. Batteries could have been stored in hot or extreme cold, there are just so many factors that can contribute to failure. This poll is not scientific and should be taken with an EXTREME grain of salt.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Or even...*



Jim311 said:


> Let's keep in mind that anybody can come on here and vote whether they've owned one or not. Also lets keep in mind that we have no idea whether the product was abused, whether it was a manufacturer defect, or just normal wear and tear. Batteries could have been stored in hot or extreme cold, there are just so many factors that can contribute to failure. This poll is not scientific and should be taken with an EXTREME grain of salt.


... folks can be motivated to chime in because they had one that died, and they are pished off, hence skewing the data towards the negative.


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## circusubet (Aug 5, 2006)

*Other Brands*

OK, Let have a poll on other light failures.....

I have had five different brands and had failures with each. Product quality varied with each, customer service varied with each. I noticed a "group buy" on the forum, Why?

The biggest why I have is WHY does J80 ALWAYS jump on to the MS threads? Jeez.....It gets VERY old.

People are stoked to have a light they can afford and it enables them to night ride. I could not and will not cross verbal swords with J80, 'cause in the end I and other riders that need this product, at this price will, like myself and MANY others will continue to use a product that they need and want.

J80, you can continue to tilt at MS's windmills ALL you want to and HOW you want to, but it will not matter one iota to the the riders that NEED an affordable night riding light.

I realize that your consistent trolling brought me out once again, but again, jeezz just drop it......

Thx,
John


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## J_Hopper (Mar 5, 2005)

circusubet said:


> ... The biggest why I have is WHY does J80 ALWAYS jump on to the MS threads? Jeez.....It gets VERY old....


I've wondered the same thing. It makes me think he's got an interest in MS not being successful. He must think his opinion is really going to negatively effect MS sales...


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I prefer to think of him as playing the devil's advocate. There is a danger in being happy magicshine customers that we're seeing the world through rose colored glasses. It's good to have a few people challenging conclusions just so we have some balance. And since there aren't many people with broken products, this whole thread is a bit lopsided.


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## circusubet (Aug 5, 2006)

*Lopsided*

THB,

"And since there aren't many people with broken products, this whole thread is a bit lopsided."

Exactly....

Two Heads,

I can always appreciate hearing the other side of any issu. That is why I first came to this site in the first place, to see what was new. I had my light-battery failures with many other brands and could not pony up the HUNDREDS of dollars again and again. So I, unlike some here, have used both the other brands AND the MS, unlike others that post here.

The way you approach the subject is right on. Fair. Balanced.

But for someone to continually to ask for private info, give me a break.

Thanks for your posts,

John


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

circusubet said:


> OK, Let have a poll on other light failures.....
> 
> I have had five different brands and had failures with each. Product quality varied with each, customer service varied with each. I noticed a "group buy" on the forum, Why?
> 
> ...


You want to argue with me, then PM me. Otherwise knock off the personal attacks.

J.


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## circusubet (Aug 5, 2006)

*Nada*



JohnJ80 said:


> You want to argue with me, then PM me. Otherwise knock off the personal attacks.
> 
> J.


No mas. You are still trolling and the time is not worth it and nothing was personal.....

Thx,
John


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

circusubet said:


> No mas. You are still trolling and the time is not worth it and nothing was personal.....
> 
> Thx,
> John


Apparently, if we don't agree then it's trolling - sort of like what you are doing here. I suppose if we had agreed then you'd think I was just about the smartest guy around.

j.


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## kapaso (Sep 15, 2007)

I'm going to buy this light from Geoman, that way if a problem arises I will be dealing with someone who has a reputation for good customer service.

I have a Planet Bike Alias (the old 10W version) that just won't die, but it has to be getting close.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

kapaso said:


> I'm going to buy this light from Geoman, that way if a problem arises I will be dealing with someone has a reputation for good customer service.
> 
> I have a Planet Bike Alias (the old 10W version) that just won't die, but it has to be getting close.


Good decision. Geoman is a great seller, and has a presence on this and other message boards. I've seen threads where people have problems, and he makes it right. A great example of how to run a business on the web.

I ordered mine back in October, and have had no problems. I rode through the rain and the winter almost every weekday, and used it in the morning and evening. Great light, great output, and hasn't failed me yet.


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## kiwimtbr (Mar 1, 2004)

*wow i love it*

Hey i have had mine for just over a month, i know its not long but i have been out on my dog rig every second night training with it at temps very low and then last night had my first real taste of night riding on a technical track with only a helmet mount magicshine 900, all i can say is Wow this light is freaking awesome, its the first decent light i have ever had and its great when training with the dogs but comes into its own on nice tight single track

This light gets all the thumbs up from me

cheers

kiwi


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Good decision. Geoman is a great seller, and has a presence on this and other message boards. I've seen threads where people have problems, and he makes it right. A great example of how to run a business on the web.
> 
> I ordered mine back in October, and have had no problems. I rode through the rain and the winter almost every weekday, and used it in the morning and evening. Great light, great output, and hasn't failed me yet.


How can that be?! It's just a POS Chinese knockoff with sub-standard components that will burn out after a couple hours and you will be lucky if the battery doesn't explode and it isn't 900 lumens and the helmet mount sucks and the o-rings snap and the beam is the wrong color and... (did I miss anything?)


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## sammer (Jun 10, 2006)

So far so good!
lovin the MS.

sam


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## Cole Rocknut (Apr 28, 2010)

*ms issues*

I did poll and put 'no probs' but actually the cable splitter connections came loose and rendered useless (£6) - I dont now wether or not caused by ME not securing battery to frame properly and as result fell off bike during ride which might have caused to much stress on cable splitter OR if it is a cheap inferior product.

Although overall I am very happy with the lights and will never, ever buy the 'big buck' lights from Lupine and other big brand names. I only paid about £80 ($90) for the lights and I could have nearlly four of these for one big buck light. The big buck lights profits are staggering, even MS make profits. MS have a smaller profit margin but higher sales.

I am very happy with MS. Will keep MS, when worn out or broken (mishandled etc) Will just buy another one, or spare part.

I would rate the MS as 8.5 out of ten.

If you compare the MS costing £80 with other lights within that price bracket they are the best in terms of battery power and lumens. No other £80 light will come close the MS. You cant rearlly compare MS to Lupine because that will be like comparing a cheap japenese imported DVD player cost £50 to a top of the range £500 Sony DVD player. Yes, the both play DVDs.

The best way to rate the Magicshine is to do it on a price comparison. Just like you would with a camera, phone, TV and car etc.

You could have what is the best lights in the: £10-20 bracket
£21-30 bracket
£31 - £40 bracket
£41-50 bracket
£51-60 bracket
£61-70 bracket
£71 - 80 bracket
£81-90 bracket
£91-100 bracket
£100+ and so forth

So the MS in the £81-90 bracket will out perform all other lights in that bracket. But you could say it resembles the power and performance of a £250+ light.

All in all, MS is best. Shimples.


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## imaca (May 1, 2010)

JohnJ80 said:


> That's an awful lot of conjecture/assumption.
> 
> On the face of it with the data as presented, it's a 10% failure rate and is not great or acceptable for a product like this. Requirements for user waterproofing of batteries on a bike light is a design flaw and is legitimately represented as a quality issue. Same with charger issues and mount issues. "User preventable" is sort of whitewash since the product needs to be designed to be used as expected by a reasonable user. If it is not clear or protection/design features that are custom and practice in the industry are not included, that is reasonable to consider as a quality issue. As well, failures like this all render the light unusable and potentially stranding the user in a dangerous situation.
> 
> ...


10% for a short time seems like a lot, but I think J Hoppers conjecture seems largely reasonable to me.
Also, I think it is not unusual for a new product to have a higher initial failure rate.
My personal experience with bike lights (x4) is that they are not overly reliable products.T
he same goes for almost any battery powered portable device (cellphone, MP3 players etc)
My experience is that spending a lot of money on any of these won't guarantee reliability, just frustration at wasting so much money.
Thats why I've bought a MS.
If it lasts 3 months it will have done better than my second (Topeak) light.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

imaca said:


> 10% for a short time seems like a lot, but I think J Hoppers conjecture seems largely reasonable to me.
> Also, I think it is not unusual for a new product to have a higher initial failure rate.
> My personal experience with bike lights (x4) is that they are not overly reliable products.T
> he same goes for almost any battery powered portable device (cellphone, MP3 players etc)
> ...


I'm involved in a large MTB club that has a very active night riding scene. It's not uncommon for weekly night rides to approach 100 people. As a result, I end up working on just about every brand of light and get to see which ones tend to be more and less reliable. I also own lights from just about every brand, including magicshine, due to being somewhat of a bike-light-aholic. I also have a pretty good collection of lights I've built myself, and since I mostly ride with those, I don't really have a strong allegiance to any particular commercial brand.

My personal experience is a 10% failure rate on the Magicshine's is consistent with what I see in the club. But, I certainly agree that spending a lot of money doesn't necessarily equate to a trouble free light. To be honest, the failure rates I observe for both NiteRider and L&M are well beyond what I would consider acceptable for a truly quality product. To make matters worse, what both those brands charge for repairs is ridiculous. In order of best first, Dinotte, Lume, and Jet seem to be the most reliable and have excellent customer service.

My only real complaint about Dinotte is that they aren't really keeping up with LED technology at the moment. Since all their lights are based on the SSC P4, they are starting to seriously fall behind in terms of efficiency. That means the amount of light you get, compared to overall system weight and size is starting to really fall behind lights built around the latest LEDs. It's time for Dinotte to introduce some revamped models. If they did that, I would strongly recommend them when people ask what light to buy.

Jet hasn't really made the transition to LED technology in an effective way. That is probably due to the unfortunate death of the company founder.

As best I can tell, it seems like Lume has effectively thrown in the towel. That's unfortunate because when HID lights were king, they had one of the best lights on the market at a lower price than the other guys. Lume was a good example where price doesn't predict quality.

My personal view is MagicShine is a great entry level light for people who want to get into night riding. With the caveat, buy from a vendor that'll take care of you in case you do have a problem with the slightly high failure rate.

If you're into serious night riding or racing, I think you should be willing to invest a little more in a higher quality light. I don't see many people riding entry level bikes at 24 hour mountain bike races. You can certainly do it, but people that devote that much time to their hobby are generally willing to invest a little money in top quality equipment. I think the Magicshine actually gets recommended and used more than it should in this segment simply due to the lack of a good alternative that balances price, features, and quality better.

I know I struggle when people that clearly fall into this segment ask me for a light recommendation. At the moment, my recommendation varies based on the question. How much trouble will you be in if the light has a problem? If reliability/quality is really important then buy the Dinotte 400L/800L combo which is little over $400 right now. That's certainly not an unreasonable price for a top quality dual light setup. If you're tolerant of some issues, price is really important, and are willing to waterproof the battery pack, I reluctantly say buy 2 MS 900s. I stress getting 2 to help mitigate the impact of a failure. I personally do not think the benefits of the 1400 is worth the drawbacks for use on singletrack. May be a different story for road riding, but I don't road ride at night so I can't really give an opinion. The new MS 900 plus is an interesting package, but I much prefer the smaller regular 900 pack, if waterproofed, to the large hard to mount/carry big metal can of the 1400 battery. I guess you should buy the plus if you're not willing to waterproof the normal 900 pack yourself.

If a reasonably established company sold a truly high quality light for a little less than $200 and it was based on current LED technology so it generated between 800 and 1000 lumens with a fairly compact and lightweight package. I think it would do well for this segment of the market. It would sure make for an easier response when people asked me what light to buy.


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

Kudos, MtbMacgywer!

Your post sums all that hype about MS lights perfectly. I'm afraid, however, that MS believers - or haters, for that matter - will simply overlook your rational thoughts about pros and cons of this lights.

So, let the holly war continue...


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

ortelius said:


> Kudos, MtbMacgywer!
> 
> Your post sums all that hype about MS lights perfectly. I'm afraid, however, that MS believers - or haters, for that matter - will simply overlook your rational thoughts about pros and cons of this lights.
> 
> So, let the holly war continue...


I agree. A good summary.

j.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

MtbMacgyver
If a reasonably established company sold a truly high quality light for a little less than $200 and it was based on current LED technology so it generated between 800 and 1000 lumens with a fairly compact and lightweight package. I think it would do well for this segment of the market. It would sure make for an easier response when people asked me what light to buy.[/QUOTE said:


> Agreed, there is a gap in the market and there will no doubt be some forced changes in the pricing structure of bike lights....I see an interesting year ahead in this industry....


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## billysorton (Jul 29, 2007)

*Contact failure*

I just recieved a DX ssc p7 bike light. When I plug it in the wires/connectors do not make sufficient contact properly to supply power. I believe it's the lighthead connector. If I wiggle them it flashes periodicly, and the glowing back light comes on briefly, hell, it even works at some wiggle points, but if you move the wires ever so slightly, it's off again. Should have gone through Geoman or someone as he actually tests these lights before he sends them out. So for anyone wondering where to buy one, do your homework, go with a reputible dealer, see whom has great customer service/warranty/shipping times, and honestly, don't let price be your only guide. This is a kick-ass light, when it briefly worked, it was amazing, as you've probably read. I can't believe how small it is, and lightwieght. I absolutely love the beampattern, the colour of the light, and that an average joe like me can get a killer light at an even more killer price. I love the led technology. I have nothing against this light, I just got a bad one, oh well, it happens. I will replace this if I can with DX, but my next one will come from someone else. Considering delays, possible shipping costs, preventing further headaches, and a strong desire to just have it to ride with, I might just order a new lighthead from Geoman, many people seem happy with their service. At least then I'd be night riding alot sooner, and have an extra lighthead for extra parts?! I think I just convinced myself! Bottom line, I think for what it is, this light is pretty good. I want one on the bars and helmet. Eventually, LOL!:madman:


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Billy, email me at [email protected] we'll help :thumbsup:



billysorton said:


> I just recieved a DX ssc p7 bike light. When I plug it in the wires/connectors do not make sufficient contact properly to supply power. I believe it's the lighthead connector. If I wiggle them it flashes periodicly, and the glowing back light comes on briefly, hell, it even works at some wiggle points, but if you move the wires ever so slightly, it's off again. Should have gone through Geoman or someone as he actually tests these lights before he sends them out. So for anyone wondering where to buy one, do your homework, go with a reputible dealer, see whom has great customer service/warranty/shipping times, and honestly, don't let price be your only guide. This is a kick-ass light, when it briefly worked, it was amazing, as you've probably read. I can't believe how small it is, and lightwieght. I absolutely love the beampattern, the colour of the light, and that an average joe like me can get a killer light at an even more killer price. I love the led technology. I have nothing against this light, I just got a bad one, oh well, it happens. I will replace this if I can with DX, but my next one will come from someone else. Considering delays, possible shipping costs, preventing further headaches, and a strong desire to just have it to ride with, I might just order a new lighthead from Geoman, many people seem happy with their service. At least then I'd be night riding alot sooner, and have an extra lighthead for extra parts?! I think I just convinced myself! Bottom line, I think for what it is, this light is pretty good. I want one on the bars and helmet. Eventually, LOL!:madman:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Bump


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## 7daysaweek (May 7, 2008)

Great time to bump this thread with all the battery issues popping up. 

Anyone know what the plan is for people who may have just bought a MS light if they find out the batteries need replacing? Are we just screwed? I'm assuming it must not be that major of an issue if they just stopped selling them for the time being rather than recalling the lights/batteries... but we all know what assuming gets you...


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Go to all-battery.com or batteryspace.com and get any 4 cell 7.4 V battery, then splice the cord onto the new pack. The original charger will still work.
Option 2 is to get a 6x AA holder an use 6 NiMH AA rechargeable batteries and slice the connector to it. That would work just as well.
The nice part of the magicshine battery is that it is easily replaced with lots of aftermarket options.

Theory on the MS from day 1 was it is good light, but may need some DIY help to keep it going. Originally it was adding more thermal grease, resodlering poor connections, and changing out the mount.
Looks like we have now added battery longevity to that list. Easy enough and still cheaper fix than any Niterider battery issue.


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

Many people said they would be happy if they got one year out of the light at the price it sold for, and they would then buy a new one when it died. Guess the time is coming for many.

My Dinotte's went strong for a couple of years before I sold them and they were still running like champs...


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## olegbabich (Dec 28, 2007)

Batteries are definitely the weak part. Wires are very thin and I had to replace mine. I started building my own packs and running them in parallel, giving me a very long run time. Now you can buy just a lighthead from Geoman. Make your own battery pack or use RC packs and you are in business. I have been running NIMH batteries. LIPOs need to be balanced, stored and discharged properly, so it is not a perfect match IMHO. I do own a balancing charger so I can run RC LIPO packs with balancer wires.

For the price you still cannot beat or build one cheaper yourself. I was able to get Magicshine 1400 light with battery and charger from China for $87.00 with Shipping and Handling. It even had (Geomangear printed right on it).

Buy just the lighthead and get a good 7.4v NIMH battery and have fun.


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## pcrestroller (May 3, 2007)

I posted on this thread when my original batteries went south but were replaced by Geomangear. Now both replacement batteries have developed shorts in the connectors or the wires - so 4 batteries total that have gone bad. I can usually get them in the right position to stay on during a ride, but they are getting more and more finicky. Haven't noted battery life reduction yet, but I haven't done a very good test. Batteries are out of warranty with geo, but I'm interested to see what happens now that geo has discontinued the battery packs.


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## Gemini Lights (Sep 20, 2010)

Hey , it will be great if you could post some photos of your hand made batteries. 
Greets



olegbabich said:


> Batteries are definitely the weak part. Wires are very thin and I had to replace mine. I started building my own packs and running them in parallel, giving me a very long run time. Now you can buy just a lighthead from Geoman. Make your own battery pack or use RC packs and you are in business. I have been running NIMH batteries. LIPOs need to be balanced, stored and discharged properly, so it is not a perfect match IMHO. I do own a balancing charger so I can run RC LIPO packs with balancer wires.
> 
> For the price you still cannot beat or build one cheaper yourself. I was able to get Magicshine 1400 light with battery and charger from China for $87.00 with Shipping and Handling. It even had (Geomangear printed right on it).
> 
> Buy just the lighthead and get a good 7.4v NIMH battery and have fun.


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