# Need advice on choosing a NON carbon, LIGHT, 2x9 Crankset.



## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

Criteria. Must be a Double crank, running a 2x9 configurations. Order of Importance: First, Strength/Stiffness, Second, Weight. This will be going on a xc/light AM bike,w/ 5.5" of front/rear suspension. I love racing up hills, in big gears, lucky to have legs that can power through almost anything, but, I put allot of pressure on my Crank/Drivetrain.

At this time, I am no longer entertaining the idea of a Carbon Crankset. Personal preference, and I tend to damage my Cranks on Rocks often. You can say, I'm not that skilled, but, I can go strait, through almost anything.

If you ride on any of these cranks, I'd love to hear your observations, impressions, advice.
I include XTR in this group, although the heaviest, it is a standard to measure weight, stiffness and reliability. It is also configured as a 3x9. Don't know if converting it to a 2x9 would be worth the trouble. Right now, I prefer a made for 2x9 crankset.

*Right now, This is my first choice of cranksets. The Cannondale Hollowgram SL, 2x9. Weight: 614g*


















*Second choice, Rotor 3D 2x9 crank. Weight, approx. in the Low 700g range.*



















*Standard to measure: Shimano XTR: Weight, 770g*










*The Hollowgram and 3D cranks, seem to be some of the stiffest, Non Carbon cranks out there. *

Thanks again for your help,

Kevin


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

My choice would be a Hollowgram Si SL too, easily converted to frames that aren´t BB30 too.


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> My choice would be a Hollowgram Si SL too, easily converted to frames that aren´t BB30 too.


Hi Mattias_HellÃ¶re. Right now, I am thinking the same thing. I was worried about compatibility issues w/ the BB30 on an Ibis Mojo SL, and didn't know there was a conversion kit. That is AWESOME!!!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Have you tried the SL Cranks? All the articles/posts I've read, say there super stiff. Of course, Cannondale states, they are the stiffest cranks, in this weight category, in the WORLD! Not to sure about those claims, but, everyone does say positive comments on the SL's.

Thanks again,

Kevin


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Kevin,

I've spent time on the C-dale SL and at 210 (with gear) I felt good when standing in hammer mode. 
In other words, they inspired me pump harder up the hill









Question? Does that 614g include BB weight?​


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

Jake Pay said:


> Kevin,
> 
> I've spent time on the C-dale SL and at 210 (with gear) I felt good when standing in hammer mode.
> In other words, they inspired me pump harder up the hill
> ...


Thanks Jake. If you Hammer at 210lbs, and they feel good, there going to be great for me, at 163lbs fully geared!!!:thumbsup: Looking at the picture closer, the spindle is on top.

Are you using Cannondale chainrings? I want to run a 30/42.

Thanks again,

Kevin


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

KevinK said:


> Thanks Jake. If you Hammer at 210lbs, and they feel good, there going to be great for me, at 163lbs fully geared!!!:thumbsup: Looking at the picture closer, I'm guessing the second picture, looks like the BB is RED, and the picture w/ scale, looks like it's missing.
> 
> Are you using Cannondale chainrings? I want to run a 30/42.
> 
> ...


It was on a buddies Scalpel so I'm not sure if he had changed anything on the crankset. 
But none the less it performed without issue









I run a RaceFace NEXT Carbon with ExtraLite GARA rings. XX front dérailleur and a KMC X10-SL chain.






































































^^^Without BB^^^

BTW, I'm not seeing your photos


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## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

If you want to save some $$$$ take a look at the KCNC K-Type.....


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Jake Pay said:


> I run a RaceFace NEXT Carbon with ExtraLite GARA rings. XX front dérailleur and a KMC X10-SL chain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey Jake, how is the Gara performing, I already have mine, but haven't had a chance to install since my rear triangle broke and Litespeed is taking a looong time to send it back.


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

Just got the Rotor 3D in the mail. Came in at 522g for crankarms with fitting bolts. A bit above the 504g on the website, however as I have 175mm instead of the 170's they measure for the claimed weight I guess that's fair enough. 
I also have the Raceface next SL, and for the triple (with the Turbine rings) they are 30g lighter than the Rotor 3D with their oval 40-27 rings with bolts. Weighing the two LH cranks alone the Next SL is 20g lighter, so I'm guessing the 3D will be super stiff.


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

doccoraje said:


> Hey Jake, how is the Gara performing, I already have mine, but haven't had a chance to install since my rear triangle broke and Litespeed is taking a looong time to send it back.


So far so good







..

I've yet to feel any noticeable difference by way of flex with the 28t ring. I am still checking after every ride 
to see if the four torx fasteners have gotten loose. But, there still holding tight after about 150 miles.
~Jake


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

jmartpr said:


> If you want to save some $$$$ take a look at the KCNC K-Type.....


Thanks jmartpr! Trying to find weights of the K-type seem difficult. The USA site says the K type triple weighs 750g fully loaded, the other KCNC site, think International, says the K type triple weighs 700g, and the double weighs, 675g. I know Nino says, don't believe the manufacturers, but, I could hope that they can at least be consistent.

Do you know how stiff the K-Type Cranks are compared to the XTR, Rotor 3D and SL?
This is probably my last WW build, so, I want to do it right, and stay within reason, but, have some space. The SL's would be the most I would pay. They do sound like awesome cranks though. I like the simple design too, not to flashy, but Clean.

Thanks again for the suggestions,

Kevin


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

AlexRandall said:


> Just got the Rotor 3D in the mail. Came in at 522g for crankarms with fitting bolts. A bit above the 504g on the website, however as I have 175mm instead of the 170's they measure for the claimed weight I guess that's fair enough.
> I also have the Raceface next SL, and for the triple (with the Turbine rings) they are 30g lighter than the Rotor 3D with their oval 40-27 rings with bolts. Weighing the two LH cranks alone the Next SL is 20g lighter, so I'm guessing the 3D will be super stiff.


Congratulations Alex!!!   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Awesome!!! Looking forward to pictures, and actual weights of the entire crank, fully loaded!!! Also, looking forward to hearing your impressions. If the total weight is in the Low 600g mark, and they are Ultra stiff, then I have a tough decision. I like the way the SL's look, but, i also like the way the 3D's look. No, I'm not getting both!!!!

Thanks again,

Kevin


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

Weight for the whole shebang with 40/27 rotor rings with bolts was 625, if I remember correctly. Of course you can go lighter if you go non-ovalised rings with Mattias' ti or alloy versions, but my choice is based on being able to ride quicker and climb better with these rings. 
Luckily I had some gold anodised chainring bolts to help lift the look, but I'm sure they'll perform well too....any product designed around Thor Hushovd would _have_ to be stiff


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

AlexRandall said:


> Weight for the whole shebang with 40/27 rotor rings with bolts was 625, if I remember correctly. Of course you can go lighter if you go non-ovalised rings with Mattias' ti or alloy versions, but my choice is based on being able to ride quicker and climb better with these rings.
> Luckily I had some gold anodised chainring bolts to help lift the look, but I'm sure they'll perform well too....any product designed around Thor Hushovd would _have_ to be stiff


Wow Alex, The 3d's look AWESOME!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Did you also weigh the Bottom Bracket? If so, That is a LIGHT weight crankset, exactly the weight I'm looking for. The SL's are expensive, and I was going to go that route, but, seeing the cranks on your bike, and seeing the weight, really has me thinking. I can save approx. $300.00 usd! I can buy something else w/ that money.

I'm also guessing you choose the titanium spindle option. What round chainrings do you recommend, that would fit the 3d?

I think, after I finish writing, I'll just stare at your pictures for a while!!!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thanks again. Looking forward to your riding impressions, but, I'm sure they are going to feel very stiff.

Kevin


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

The chainrings are the hardest thing to find if you want round ones......the bcd for rotor is 110/74 I think (you should doublecheck that!). There is a guy on this forum called Mattias who can do custom chainrings for you, extralight also make light ones. Search for chainrings on this forum and you'll find a few light options out there.

BB is 90g, and not included in my weight. The whole lot is about the same as the Raceface Next SL, so its light, but not superlight. 
I think your cannondale crank will weigh a little more once you put a standard BB adaptor in there.....all BB30 cranksets that I know of are significantly lighter than their standard counterparts.


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## roybatty666 (Mar 2, 2009)

For the KCNC

I have a triple and it weighs 735 with BB rings (although I run is Single speed at 621g

My mate has the double which comes in a 675g with BB and rings

It is important to get the 2009 ones as the earlier ones are heavier and the 2009 have 2" long large diameter crank bolts that realy stiffen up the scandium BB axle at the crank bearing point.

I love mine, it has some awesome CNC work on it and the concave front face greatly reduces wear from your shoes, a dob of threadlock and proper torquing of the bolts is a must though


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## Zigo (Oct 30, 2008)

My double weights 672g(175mm) on this photo and I have put another 18g down when I take of the BB shell. The stiffness is comparable to XTR, maybe better. More weights


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

Zigo said:


> My double weights 672g(175mm) on this photo and I have put another 18g down when I take of the BB shell. The stiffness is comparable to XTR, maybe better. More weights


Wow Zigo. That weight is with the BB? And you feel it's as stiff, if not stiffer than the XTR? Fantastic!!! Looks like I have to add the KCNC to the short list of Cranks to consider. Thanks allot.:thumbsup:

Kevin


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

roybatty666 said:


> For the KCNC
> 
> I have a triple and it weighs 735 with BB rings (although I run is Single speed at 621g
> 
> ...


Thanks roybatty666. I am adding this to my short list of possible considerations for my next crank set. This is getting difficult. Do you feel they are as stiff as XTR Cranks? Thanks again,

Kevin


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## roybatty666 (Mar 2, 2009)

I have never had the pleasure of running XTR cranks, but as I said I ride these in an SS setup and they feel rock solid even when standing and mashing the pedals up the climbs.

They are also hollowed as well as externally shaped which helps the weight


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

KevinK said:


> Wow Zigo. That weight is with the BB? And you feel it's as stiff, if not stiffer than the XTR? Fantastic!!! Looks like I have to add the KCNC to the short list of Cranks to consider. Thanks allot.:thumbsup:
> 
> Kevin


Kevin,
just remember that there are different BCDs out there !

The KCNC double shown above for example has a 94 BCD which won't allow you to mount rings smaller than 29t. Might be that's low enough for you but just remind that for use with double chainrings you first have to know your needed gearing otherwise you might be stuck with a crankset that has to high gears.

You can convert triple cranksets to double BUT doing so with all modern integrated cranks leaves you with a not so ideal chainline. (For example converting XTR to 2x9)

I'd say if you aren't sure if you will run triple or double get a older triple crank with seperate BB (ISIS or square). This allows you to adapt without compromsising chainline or chainring choice. With different width BB you can always choose the perfect chainline and you won't have compatibility issues.


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## rroadie (Aug 3, 2008)

My KCNC double has been quite awesome nd I felt no perceivable loss in stiffeness from my XTR960's.
That said ther have been times when I would like a lower gear. Hopefully I have addressed this by ordering a 36t ti cog from Mattias. 29t is indeed the smallest chainring that will fit the KCNC double.
Shifting has been great.


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

*@ rroadie, nino, zigo and roybatty666.*

Thanks for your input and observations pertaining to the KCNC K-Type Double cranks. Also, the warning that the smallest size chainring is a 29t, which should be o.k., since, I was originally going to to either 29t or 30t/ 42t.

Thanks again, and if anyone has anymore insight, observations, critiques, please share!!!

Kevin


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## ~ScaryFast~ (Jan 22, 2004)

This is a very useful thread for me too, as I am on the lookout for new cranks.

What is a good BB30 adapter to use with the Hollowgram cranks? Does anyone have input on how this setup rides using an adapter? Any performance issues with the added complexity to the setup?


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

Kevin: Specialties TA makes round rings to fit the 74-110 bcd of the Rotor 2 ring cranks. They make a lot of different tooth sizes as well. Use google to find dealers that stock them. The TA rings are 9/10 speed compatible, and you use a TA "middle" 110 bcd ring for the outer ring on the Rotor cranks. These rings have ramps and pins, and shift very well. My 26/40 TA rings weighed around 83 grams total.


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

*see Links Scaryfast!*



~ScaryFast~ said:


> This is a very useful thread for me too, as I am on the lookout for new cranks.
> 
> What is a good BB30 adapter to use with the Hollowgram cranks? Does anyone have input on how this setup rides using an adapter? Any performance issues with the added complexity to the setup?


First link is the thread I started:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=579587

Second link is of the home page, where they sell the Spindle, that allows a 68mm BB to use a BB30 Crank, like the Hollowgram SL.

http://www.cannondale-parts.de/epages/61764971.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61764971/Products/KP094

Hope this helps. I really want to use the Hollowgram SL 2x9 cranks w/ the BB30, but am finding, the hassle of ordering over seas, waiting, and hoping everything works out at my LBS to be kinda nerve wrecking, so right now, I am leaning toward the Rotor 3D Cranks. Team Cervelo used them in 09, and will use them again in 2010, so they must be stiff. Lighter than XTR cranks. Another option is Middleburns.

Good luck,

Kevin


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## ~ScaryFast~ (Jan 22, 2004)

Great, thank you!
I guess this won't work in a 73mm shell


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

I want to bump this & ask a similar question- though I don't mind carbon, and I'm looking for something where I can go as small as a 24t small ring. I like a stiff crank, but I'm also 140 pounds geared up, so I'm not exactly bending crankarms... 

Right now, I've got a converted Noir crank, but I'm building another frame up in Feb, so I'm shopping around now and I figured I might as well upgrade.


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

The Raceface Next SL is a good standard crankset which is light and has enough commonly available spares to be viable. With XTR BB it is 685g with stock rings. Plenty of options for customisation as its the very common 104/64 bcd


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

*@ Andrea138*

If your looking for a Double crank, Lightening makes one of the lightest w/ many options, and the price, compared to other Carbon cranks, is affordable. If you have a BB30 type Bottom bracket, I might consider the Cannondale Hollowgram SL cranks, also 2x9. I'm 160lbs, give or take two lbs, fully geared up, and I just ordered the Rotor 3D 2x9 cranks. Also purchased some Stronglight 42/30t chainrings, and Shimano M970 Bottom bracket. My total weight should be around 660grams, everything included. These cranks are used by Team Cervelo, and I know these guys hammer way harder than I could every hope to hammer. If you are looking for a triple, there are many options.

Good luck,

Kevin


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

On the Lightning cranks, I see that it lists the double as a 94BCD. Is that JUST 94? Or is it 94 w/a smaller-bcd inner pattern (58?) The smallest ring I can find in 94 is 30t. 

Looks like the the Q-Ring set sold for the Rotor double crank only comes in 27/40, though Blackspire makes the sizes I want (24/36) to fit that BCD. (I know that Blackspire isn't really light, but I love how durable they've been on my current build, so I'm willing to take the weight hit)

Thanks for the help!

Edit- oh yeah, and my BB shell is a standard 68mm (not BB30, etc)


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## rrl (Sep 21, 2008)

$$$$what´s the price for the hollowgrams? ??$$$ those rotor cranks are swwweet!!!


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

Andrea138 said:


> On the Lightning cranks, I see that it lists the double as a 94BCD. Is that JUST 94? Or is it 94 w/a smaller-bcd inner pattern (58?) The smallest ring I can find in 94 is 30t.
> 
> Looks like the the Q-Ring set sold for the Rotor double crank only comes in 27/40, though Blackspire makes the sizes I want (24/36) to fit that BCD. (I know that Blackspire isn't really light, but I love how durable they've been on my current build, so I'm willing to take the weight hit)
> 
> ...


Hi Andrea,

The Rotor 3D 2x9 mountain cranks use a 110/74 bcd size. I have ordered Stronglight and Specialties TA chainrings. Both very light. I also just ordered a custom Titanium 30T chainring from Mattias. I'm guessing the Mattias chainring will be the lightest and most durable, however, the Stronglight chainrings are very light. Total approx. weight for a 110 bcd 42t and a 74bcd 30t are below 80g for both. The TA chainrings are also very close. You can also purchase heavier chainrings that fit the 110/74 bcd from Salsa, FSA, Shimano Ultegra, and quite a few others. 110 bcd is referred to as "Compact". I go through middle chainrings pretty fast, so I will have a total of three. I will give a report as to each rings durability over the 2010 biking year.

Hope this helps,

Kevin


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

rrl said:


> $$$$what´s the price for the hollowgrams? ??$$$ those rotor cranks are swwweet!!!


Retail price from LBS is $735.0 usd. However, this crank uses a BB30 type bottom bracket. If you have a 68mm or 74mm BB, you will need to purchase a different spindle, being offered on Europe.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=579587

It was my first choice, but, after I totaled the cost of ordering the specially made spindle, the price came over $1k usd. They are light, strong, stiff, but, kind of a hassle if you don't have a 30bb type BB. I ended up ordering the Rotor 3d. Used by Team Cervelo in 2009. Total weight w/ BB and Chainrings should be close to 660g. 506g: Crank, M970BB: 90g, 110/74bcd 42/30t stronglight CT2 chainrings: 35g+30g= approx. 65g, total: 661g.

Hope this helps,

Kevin


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

My vote is old school CNC'd aluminum craftsmanship

Middleburn (English craftsmanship)
https://www.middleburn.co.uk/cranks_rs8.php

https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=477043

















or

PMP cranks (Italian Craftsmanship)










https://www.pmpbike.net/bike.php/p-6x41x189/codsart-132/page-1/MTB-CrankSet-Double-Chainrings.htm


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## rooster44 (Jan 18, 2009)

For the $, I don't think anything beats the Middleburn... I have the 29/42 Double & they're bomber


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## emp? (Sep 8, 2009)

why not just run xx cranks? they are cheap as chips on ebay


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

emp? said:


> why not just run xx cranks? they are cheap as chips on ebay


Because they are carbon...and not light?? The title of the thread is non carbon, light cranks.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> [/IMG]


Your Middleburns + ISIS BB and we are easily looking at close to 700g...is that still light enough?

Hmm-i'd go another route then using conventional triple cranks and convert them to double like i did with my Next LPs below:
628g all complete with BB and bolts - ready to go. All chainring options, no fancy custom BCD...cheap and light:thumbsup:


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## rooster44 (Jan 18, 2009)

Yea- I think we're going to find as time goes on that those XX Cranks have no place in the market when you really compare the alternatives. Except maybe the guys who just like to spend a bunch of money to "Match" up their bits & pieces...


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## emp? (Sep 8, 2009)

the mayor said:


> Because they are carbon...and not light?? The title of the thread is non carbon, light cranks.


because someone had already said they would consider carbon cranks?

XX cranks can be had on ebay even cheaper than the KCNC cranks

though Im not saying there good  idk what they even weigh
ok ill stop talking


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

As far as the XX cranks go, I don't think their anything special, however, I do think allot of time and research went into making their XX Chainrings, not the crank. JMO.

Kevin


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## Jon8500 (Aug 31, 2009)

FSA has got some 2x9 cranks on it's site now, But they still maybe too heavy at 776g minus BB.

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?taxid=298&layout=product

Though that outer ring looks heavy.


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## tennessee17 (Oct 26, 2004)

*The FSA Afterburners Are Nice!*

I have these cranks on my Stumpjumper 29er FSR. They are light, stiff, and shift well. They replaced a set of triple XTR 970 cranks and I have not thought about going back, save for missing the 22T for steep climbs and weak legs


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Jon8500 said:


> FSA has got some 2x9 cranks on it's site now, But they still maybe too heavy at 776g minus BB.
> 
> http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?taxid=298&layout=product
> 
> Though that outer ring looks heavy.


FSA rings, especially these kind of rings, weigh a TON! You could easily save 50g on the big ring alone...

BUT with that unique 3-bolt custom BCD you are stuck.You won't be able to mount other rings and you will have to buy those heavy rings for a lot of money once they are worn. This is a prime example of a crank YOU SHOULD NOT GET !!

It looks good from a distance but looking closer you will notice that this is a dead end.

Pictured below the big ring of some FSA K-Force Light and the set of three FRM rings 22/32/44.....no comment!


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## Jon8500 (Aug 31, 2009)

Fair enough I linked them as a crankset that had the option of outboard BB's. Again not sure on the quility of the FSA BB's.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

I've killed two FSA "sealed" BBs on my cyclocross bike. I thought maybe the first one was a fluke- maybe the guy who I bought the bike from had damaged it or not taken care of it (the drive side bearings had rusted to where they wouldn't turn). So, I replaced it. Three race weekends later, the non-drive bearings froze up. When I took it apart, it was filled with mud. 
Granted, it was a really, really sloppy first half of the season, but I would expect them to last a little longer since they're supposed to be a sealed system. I ended up getting an Enduro press kit and swapping in some of their plain stainless cartridges, which I've had no issues with since. 

Based on that experience, I'd never use one on my MTB.


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

AlexRandall said:


> Just got the Rotor 3D in the mail. Came in at 522g for crankarms with fitting bolts. A bit above the 504g on the website, however as I have 175mm instead of the 170's they measure for the claimed weight I guess that's fair enough.
> I also have the Raceface next SL, and for the triple (with the Turbine rings) they are 30g lighter than the Rotor 3D with their oval 40-27 rings with bolts. Weighing the two LH cranks alone the Next SL is 20g lighter, so I'm guessing the 3D will be super stiff.


Is there a way to tell the titanium axle from the Steel axle, by looks alone?

Thanks,

Kevin


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