# Beginners and Dept Store Bikes



## gregg (Sep 30, 2000)

(Thanks to JimC for the link)

An excellent article at ConsumerReports.org titled "Cheap bikes are not bargains"



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Wal-Mart and Toys “R” Us sell plenty of bikes from brands such as Huffy, Mongoose, Roadmaster, and Schwinn for $100 to $200. They seem like good deals, so why would we advise you to spend $300 or more for a bike in the Ratings (available to subscribers)? 

Because you get what you pay for. Mass-market bikes have cheaper construction than higher-priced bikes and can weigh 7 or 8 pounds more. They come in only one size, so you're not likely to get a great fit. And mass merchants can't match bike shops for quality of assembly, expert advice, and service. 

In the long run, performance matters most, so we tried out two full-suspension bikes and one front-suspension model from the big-box stores, priced at $120 to $230. Shifting of the full-suspension bikes' 21 speeds wasn't nearly as smooth as on bike-shop models. Shock absorption and handling were fair to decent on pavement and on smooth dirt paths, but these so-called mountain bikes couldn't handle rough off-road terrain. On steep paved roads, the extra weight, poor gearing, and mushy suspensions made pedaling uphill very hard. 

The front-suspension model, also with 21 speeds, did much better on pavement and on fairly smooth dirt trails--but only after we adjusted the sloppy setup to make it roadworthy. Plus it comes in only one size, so fit will be hit or miss. 

Consider cheaper bikes from a department store only for the most casual adult use, and stick with a front-suspension model, which is likely to be better than a cheap full-suspension bike. You may want a mass-market bike for kids who will outgrow a bike quickly or toss it about. 

Still, if your budget allows, we'd recommend that you buy one of the $300 comfort bikes in the Ratings (available to subscribers). You'll get a lot more bike for the buck. 
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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

*Totally Agreed....*

I had no much options when it got the moment to buy a bike by and for myself. So I had to stick to a Dept. Store bike which I enjoyed a lot and rode it and mantained it until it was stolen....

But the sanest advice to a beginner should be to get a low price hardtail from a major brand at a LBS. Next step (IMHO) should be a low end Full Suspension from reputated brands (like Specialized, Giant, Trek and why not? Mongoose or Diamond Back).

Next, the sky (and the wallet) is the limit. But I consider this described above as a logical progression and I would have have all the options you have now and would have liked to get this advice when I started.

Happy Trails (from Mexico)!!


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## rjauto (Jun 27, 2004)

Totally agree. I bought my first mountain bike at a dept store. Was a pretty good bike after i readjusted everything. After riding it about a year components started going south.
I finally reached the point where it was more frustrating than enjoyable to ride (always being concerned about breaking something). So i got farther in debt and bought a Cannondale f400.. Even though this is also a entry level bike, the differance is just amazing.. I find myself doing things on this bike that i would never attempt on my old bike,,, Granted, its probably all mental, but thats my story and im sticking to it!!!!!


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## openujs (Apr 26, 2004)

rjauto said:


> After riding it about a year components started going south.


i like ur expression..never heard that expression b4. i think that is true for most southern states/cities except Charlotte NC and southern florida.


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## rjauto (Jun 27, 2004)

openujs said:


> i like ur expression..never heard that expression b4. i think that is true for most southern states/cities except Charlotte NC and southern florida.


LOL common term here in Texas....


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

I've always considered Consumer Reports is a very trustworthy resource, but their reviews & articles at times leave something to be desired. I think sometimes they rely on their respected ratings matrix to make up for less-than thorough write-ups.

A good site to supplement the CR link is "Bikes R Not Toys" at...

www.BikesRNotToys.com


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## bstguitarist (Jul 4, 2004)

Granted I am very new to the sport of true mountain biking and only started riding on trails a couple weeks ago. Though I have been hiking in the woods for more than a year so I am not new to them. But I have one statement, I own a toy r' Us Rhino and I love it. Yeah, its probably not a really good bike but it gets the job done. I could not afford anything else. It was $90 and I assembled it myself. It was my only choice. If I didnt get that I would not have gotten anything so I took it and it has been great. But wouldnt you rather have a department store bike than nothing at all? If I didnt get it I probably never would have gotten into mountain biking.


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## SSINGA (Dec 23, 2003)

*My $.02...*



bstguitarist said:


> Granted I am very new to the sport of true mountain biking and only started riding on trails a couple weeks ago. Though I have been hiking in the woods for more than a year so I am not new to them. But I have one statement, I own a toy r' Us Rhino and I love it. Yeah, its probably not a really good bike but it gets the job done. I could not afford anything else. It was $90 and I assembled it myself. It was my only choice. If I didnt get that I would not have gotten anything so I took it and it has been great. But wouldnt you rather have a department store bike than nothing at all? If I didnt get it I probably never would have gotten into mountain biking.


Good point. IF a $90 bike is all you can swing then yes it is better than nothing. Also a good place to learn how to do your own wrenching. Just remember that a $90 bike is a desposable product not really meant for long term or hard core use. Case in point...While at the LBS checking out new "stuff" a few weeks ago a lady came in with her daughter and her 3 month old department store bike that was having shifting issues. The repair charge estimate was over $100 dollars (Bent derailleur and frame, new cables, true the wheels, full tune-up to add gease where it should be and remove it from others etc...) It would have been cheaper to buy from the LBS to begin with and get the 1-2 years of free service.

Just like many other major purchases you have to consider the TCO - total cost of ownership.


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## macqso (Jul 6, 2004)

*how bout it*

i have always gottin a lbs bike but i was at a dicks sporting goods store and i saw this mongoose and i didnt think it was a bad bike,tell me what you think its 330 bucks.i wanna be able to do little drops and some jumping.i think it had decent parts

please tell me what you thin

the link


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

*Looks more like a XC machine...*

You should swap some components to make jumping starting at the wheels and tires....


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## OldTeen (Jun 14, 2004)

A bike ill-suited to you & your riding habits is no bargain.
After much shopping, I got a GREAT deal on my current hardtail MTB as a close-out on a 2003 model (I paid under half-price at a LBS). Close-outs can save $$$ IF you can find a brand name bike that fits you well. 

Another option for getting the best value is looking for a well-maintained used bike. Many LBS's have used bikes, web-sites with used bikes, or even low-tech BB's with used bikes for sale. Classified ads in the local paper are another source. I even found a wonderful road bike at a garage sale. Of course- check out any used bike carefully before buying. Know what fits you, and test ride thoroughly. Good books on bike repair (e.g. Zinn's) may help you focus on what major issues can arise with worn/abused bikes.

Keep in mind that some 'brand-name' companies sell low-end bikes through department stores. Many of these bikes are NOT the same as those sold through reputable LBS's (or even higher-end sporting goods stores). Cheap parts that require constant adjustments, or (God forbid) a fork or frame that cracks under stress are no bargains at any price. I agree with Warp that for most the best choice is an entry-level HT from a major manufacturer. It's generally cheaper in the long run to find one from a good LBS, because you can get a decent fitting and some period of free adjustments.


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## Masonic (Jul 26, 2004)

I picked up a $160 Schwinn @ walmart for my g/f.
It is an aluminum frame, kinda light actually, well built, "cute" according to her  
anyway, For some riders, like g/f's...that $300 Gary Fisher or Trek are not that
much better. They both have RST forks like the Walmart Schwinns, a bit better
Shimano parts hopefully but c'mon...the big-store brands do serve a purpose
and you can come out w/ a trail worthy bike if you stay away from those BS full suspension jokes.
The build on these tings is the worst part. How many 115lb girlz you know
snappin frames and thrashin parts? COnsumer reports is less than thourough.
People treat these bikes like the plague sometimes...
At least I have someone to dish my old parts off to now.


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## dukeblaster (Mar 28, 2004)

flat out a dept store bike won't last more than a year, even if riding on roads. If you are at all heavy (over 180) and ride 4-5 times a week, spend at least 300 dollars. Its worth it in the long run. Best beginner bike out there in my opion would be a specialized hardrock (300ish). Heavier but strong too and the frames geometry is pretty nice (it resemebles my P2 fairly closely). My girlfriend has one and i've ridden it around alittle and it hops great and is forgiving on the trail (poor hill climber though). if you want more of X-C bike there are some low end fishers like the marlin that is fairly decent. I'd stay away from dept store bikes all togather (also you cannot usually get service like a bike shop). 

PS do not get a low end dual suspension waste of time and money (you havta spend 1000 plus for a decent one), and stay away from mongoose and schwinn (schwinn's older bmx's are alright though)


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## uber-stupid (Jan 12, 2004)

My beef with department store bicycles:

The stores normally pay the assemblers by the bike, not by the hour. So it's in their best interest to assemble more bikes quickly, than to take their time and make sure it's in proper working order. "Assembly" for most of these guys therefore means putting on pedals, putting on handlebars, and the front wheel... and run it out the door. Air the tires if the customer asks.

The problem with that is that they don't check adjustments. They don't always make sure everything is running as it should. I bought a Huffy years ago because I was dirt-poor, and it would get me to work. Out the door, I had to adjust EVERYTHING. Brakes were too loose, shifting was inaccurate... So I bought a 6 inch adjustable wrench and a screwdriver at the same time, and fixed it on the way home. 

Old style shifters it didn't matter... pull the lever until it settles into the desired gear. But newer indexed shifters, you have to at least make minimal adjustment to make sure it's working properly. 

The seat may or may not be safe. That huffy had 1/8" of foam rubber over a metal plate. No kidding. I didn't figure it out for a while until after a long ride, and wondered why the hell my butt hurt so bad. And THEN I had to ride it home. It took 2 weeks to be able to sit properly again. 

And yet... someone stole that damned huffy. Go figure. But I have no doubt that seat exacted my revenge for me. 

I bought a Pacific a few years later, for the same reason... I was poor. It was a little bit better... the seat was ridable (I replaced it anyway with a real seat... some things you just develop pet peeves over) It had a "shock absorber" on the front. It was in fact a spring loaded tube, so when it bottomed out (which it often did) it hurt like hell. 


And an LBS will normally offer to make 1-month checkups. That first month can see some major changes after all the ferrules on cable housings settle in... brakes will be looser, shifting will be different... Some people refer to it as "cables stretching"... call it what you will. After break-in period, bikes will probably want a bit of touching up. 

It's true, dept store bikes have slowly been getting better. But the service given to them has not. And my guess is, it will not in the foreseeable future. A crappy bike that's been given some attention can be made to work fairly well. It'll still be a heavy clanking thing that isn't entirely safe for a serious rider, but it'll work *fairly* well. But lacking that attention, it won't even do that. It'll be a heavy, clanking, almost properly funcitoning piece of junk. 

For a similar price, you can usually get a good used bike from a bike shop, which will have had that proper attention given, and it'll be a name brand bike with components that will work a little bit better. It'll shift reliably, and it'll stop when you need it to, so you won't have to figure in that extra 20 feet to come to a complete stop. Maybe I'm snobby that way, but I really do think that brakes should stop you, and shifters should actually shift. Ironically enough, these bikes will only work their best after you take them to an LBS for a tune up... at which point you'll start to approach what you would have paid for the LBS bike in the first place.


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## Jawz (Jun 1, 2004)

well k im in canada, and its not much different up here, but as the guy above said its starting to get better. I got my iron horse from SportChek....they have sole rights to iron horse in canada or ontario or something. There was one specific bike guy, u could tell cuz somebody ask him about a golf club and he just say i build and ride bikes, ask that guy. Sportchek also has "dirt shops" which carry higher end bikes and have full mechanic sites and all....i even got 1 year service with my bike havent really used it but its there if i get desperate. Overall i had a good intro experience goin from a major sports store....goin from liek a walmart i kno it be like "this bike comes in blue too" kinda deal. Things are gettin better slowly cuz this sport is growing larger and larger i think. but my next bike will for sure be from an LBS cuz ill be dropping like $1500-2000 in a few years on a nice hardtail.


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## bstguitarist (Jul 4, 2004)

I find that eventhough my bike is frekin heavy (Dept. store) and that is really is that great of quality it gets me by. It better to have a bike than nop bike at all. As long as I keep it maintained its been working pretty good. I took the old 7-bracket bearings out and replaced them with free bearings and relubes all that and jsut keep it clean and all lubed up and everything on it tight. Dong this will hopefully make it last quite a bit longer.


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## revrnd (Aug 13, 2004)

openujs said:


> i like ur expression..never heard that expression b4. i think that is true for most southern states/cities except Charlotte NC and southern florida.


A few of us in Canada use it too. But then it might be from reading the American 4x4 magazines


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## DirtDawg (Aug 31, 2004)

I like others at one time purchased a Dept store bike and was so very sorry that I did. It became more time and work to keep everything functioning correctly than it was time to ride. I recently looked for a beginners bike for my wife and browsed through the dept store bikes and the more I looked the worse I felt for even considering putting her on one of those bikes. The components were mostly the lowest line of Shimano, Sram, and Suntour. Like the article above states there were very limited in size, and extremely heavy. So I bucked up my wallet and went shopping at real bike stores. After about a month of careful comparison I'm happy to say she is getting a Specialized Hardrock Sport, a very good beginners bike and I'm sure she would thank me if she test rode the dept store bikes before she tested the HardRock. SO I Would Recommend That You Stay Away From Dept Store Bikes.


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## ks_medic (Sep 3, 2004)

How do you guys feel about a GT Avalanche 3.0? Its my first bike, paid about $220 at a sporting good store. Is it a good bike? I'm wanting to do some upgrades to it. What should i buy for it?


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## DirtDawg (Aug 31, 2004)

ks_medic said:


> How do you guys feel about a GT Avalanche 3.0? Its my first bike, paid about $220 at a sporting good store. Is it a good bike? I'm wanting to do some upgrades to it. What should i buy for it?


I looked at the same bike for my wife. You got a pretty good deal on it. Around here it goes for $299. The things that I did not really like about it were as follows:
(1)It has Suntour XCC-100 crank and riveted chainrings "cant change when one wears out"
(2)Low grade rear Derailleur Shimano Acera " this is what Shimano lists as a casual riding and around town component.
(3)A even lower grade front Derailleur Shimano TY-32 this will probably be the first to go.
(4)Only has a 7 Speed rear cassette.
The other components are ok not great, but ok. That frame is a beast though, all the reviews I read on that bike said the components were not so hot, the rear Derailleur skips in no time and needs adjustment, but the frame is indestructible, you can beat it hard.

I think if its your first bike its not a bad choice it is comparable to all entry level bikes in that price range --> Under $300. Most have around the same types of components. I think it will serve you well until the components are hashed and by then you will be a better rider and can look for a higher end bike or a full new component set and other upgrades.
Good Luck with that GT, my cousin has been riding them since around 1982 and wont ride anything else.


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## ks_medic (Sep 3, 2004)

> (1)It has Suntour XCC-100 crank and riveted chainrings "cant change when one wears out"


So if this wears out then the bike is no good because you can't change it? 

This may sound like a stupid question but can you tell me what these parts do and where are they located?


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## Brick (Apr 8, 2004)

ks_medic said:


> So if this wears out then the bike is no good because you can't change it?


It's not that it's no good, it just gets expensive really fast. Cranks and rings wear out over time, especially on a mountian bike. The more you ride, the more likely you are to break teeth, bend rings, mangle cranks etc. It's just more cost effective to replace one ring, or a crankarm. On a system w. riveted rings, you generally can't separate the rings from the crank or the rings from each other. Parts like this also aren't necessarily designed to take the kind of long-term abuse and will necessitate mare frequent replacement. So you have two problems:

1. Lower end parts wear faster and require more frequent replacement.
2. Rivited rings can be more expensive to maintain/replace because you have to replace the whole assembly if one sub-component is broken.

It's kind of like putting parts onto an older car. You need to keep an eye on the point of diminishing returns. It's real easy for the cost of maintenance to exceed the value of the bike if you're not careful.


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## DirtDawg (Aug 31, 2004)

ks_medic said:


> So if this wears out then the bike is no good because you can't change it?
> 
> This may sound like a stupid question but can you tell me what these parts do and where are they located?


I agree with all of what BRICK said. I think you have a good bike as a base, the frame is strong so you can just work on upgrading components each time something goes bad. If your crank or chainrings need replaced just upgrade to a better component. This in no way means you bought a crappy bike, that GT is a good entry level bike and it will love all the abuse you can throw at it, but because you had to scrimp on the initial investment then you must make up for it through time by purchasing upgrades in parts or constantly replace stock low end parts. I think if you were on a budget at the time of purchase then you made a logical and good choice. Keep this in mind though; if you are going to upgrade the drive train (front derailleur, rear derailleur, shifters, rear sprockets, or crank) that shimano likes to try to make you upgrade the entire thing all at once because some of their products will not work well with other ones. So before you upgrade make sure and research, which components will work together, it will save you money along the way.


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

*Something else to stress*

Helmets.

I was riding at Fort Custer over the wekend and came across quite a few riders on the trails not wearing any helmets. Mostly department store bikes or just above it. Saw one group that was a family of six or eight - great to see 'em on bikes, and on the trails, but not one had a helmet. Spending $200 or so on the bike and then refusing to spend another $20 or $30 on your head isn't a bargain I'm willing to make.

Some of the trails there are difficult and I'm not afrild to admit that I'll even get off the bike to walk sections of 'em, and it isn't always the things that you see that get ya. Who would play football without a helmet, who would play soccer without shin guards?

JmZ
(maybe I need the asbestos suit now?)



gregg said:


> (Thanks to JimC for the link)
> 
> An excellent article at ConsumerReports.org titled "Cheap bikes are not bargains"
> 
> ...


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## DirtDawg (Aug 31, 2004)

JmZ said:


> Helmets.
> 
> I was riding at Fort Custer over the wekend and came across quite a few riders on the trails not wearing any helmets. Mostly department store bikes or just above it. Saw one group that was a family of six or eight - great to see 'em on bikes, and on the trails, but not one had a helmet. Spending $200 or so on the bike and then refusing to spend another $20 or $30 on your head isn't a bargain I'm willing to make.
> 
> ...


You bring up a great point about helmets.

Its interesting that you mention helmets in the topic of Dept Store Bikes, something that I overlooked. Although I have never seen such a site as a family all riding with no helmets on any of the trails around here, I'm sure it happens quite often though. It reminds me of a certain recall for full suspension Mongoose Dept Store Bikes because the forks were breaking and sending riders over the bars, here is a link http://www.totalbike.com/news/get_news.php3?id=692,
picture landing on your head with out a skid lid on "OUCH" sounds like a nice bloody laceration to me. Here is part of what the recall states "There have been 34 reports of forks on these bicycles breaking resulting in 31 riders, including children and teenagers, suffering serious head and bodily injuries, abrasions, bruises and chipped teeth." Now that would make me want to run out and buy one of those bikes". 
I actually had one of these that was given to me to repair, I had never heard of these forks so I looked them up on line, after viewing these recalls I ended up striping it and giving just the frame to a neighbor kid, I threw the forks in the trash. I did not want to be responsible for giving the bike to someone and then have them get hurt.
Just one example of what can happen with a cheaper dept store bike and when you don't wear a helmet.


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## Th' Mule (Aug 31, 2004)

My very first mountain Bike was an "Eddie something or other" from Canadian Tire. Basically a Dept. Store bike. I rode it for all of three weeks before it totally crapped out on me. It was such a bad experience I did not get back on a bike for another *ten* years. When I got back on a bike, it was from a Local Bike Shop (Single Track Cycle) and the salesperson, Felix was great. He wouldn't sell me a bike that didn't fit me,and he fitted the bike to me very well. When a buddy of mine was interested in going the Dept. Store route I pulled him up short and aimed him at the LBSs around Calgary. I told him he would pay three, maybe four times more, but he would not have the same crappy experience I had. Now he is very happy with his Exile and he beats me up the frickin' hills...


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## GuruAtma (May 17, 2004)

*Dirtrag Undercover*

In the latest issue of Dirtrag, a couple of writers/riders go undercover to buy two bikes at dept. stores. They give a pretty good description of the problems and what you get for the money. Some of the problems they listed were downright scary.

Here's the article:
http://www.dirtragmag.com/articles/article.php?ID=657&category=features


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## GaryB (Oct 13, 2004)

A very wise bike shop employee once said....."the best bike is the one you will ride"

I agree with that. However I finally got a good beginer bike from a reputable shop that actually fits me! What a differacne! I can't blive I settled for all those other bikes. I can hardly wait to try out my off-road worthyness. Looking forward to getting some dirt on it and being able to upgrade to disk brakes if I want to. Not to mention the quality of the derailers....WOW! I have never had to do so little maintenance on a bike. (Aside from trueing a rim for my wife who took a good spill a couple weeks back) 

Its just a GT Avalanche 3.0 Hardtail but I fell in love with it the first time I rode it. Looking forward to building a custom FS!

Can't believe I have been away from MBing for 8 years........what was I thinking?


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## londonlad (Oct 2, 2004)

Department store bikes - it depends on the kind of riding you do. My first mountain bike was a Cdn$200 department store bike. After two months of aggressive cross country riding, the axle was bent, the chain snapped, and the bike was beginning a slow death. My next investment was Cdn$500+ for a entry level cross country bike from Kona. I've never regretted spending the extra $$, because the bike was able to handle the kind of riding I was doing, things weren't breaking, and I didn't need to do any real repairs for several years. Plus the guys at the bike store did free adjustments - the guys at the department store knew less about adjusting gears and brakes than I did! My local bike shop has a sign on the door saying: "We do not fix department store bikes, due to their lack of quality." That says it all. I found out the hard way, and wished I'd saved my $200 and put it towards a better quality bike rather than waste it on a department store bike. If you're not serious about biking and don't do too much riding and are very easy on your bike, then maybe a department store bike is ok. But if you plan to do any kind of hard riding and buy a department store bike, in the long run you'll just need to buy a new/better quality bike anyway. Don't make the same mistake I did! Department store "mountain" bikes are made for roads, not mountains!


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## giantguy (Oct 18, 2004)

*whats wrong with...*

I must say, first off, that I have been mountain biking for a few months now on a 260$(US) bike. My 2002 Giant Boulder surely isn't a department store bike, I bought it through my LBS at the time. It has Altus componets with SUNTOUR cranks. The only things that I've ever replaced on that bike were: a) the grips, due to partial neglect in a way, I was stressing my left palm a little too much, complicated to explain, b) the rear tire, from skidding a lot. bad idea... and c) my cranks. I replaced my cranks due to the fact that after 4 years of them being flawless, I managed to slightly bend them enough to cause massive chain problems. Mostly the second gear was warped, but the third faced a little damage and the first was fine.

Now, your thinking "what an idiot, saying how Suntours aren't bad, but he broke them."

Well, I broke them by my abuse. A 3 foot drop, going less than 1mph, caused the cranks to smack the concrete and, since it was angled enough, it bent them. Its hard to explain though... but when I was at an angle where my back tire was still up on the high part, and my front tire was kinda close to the ground, my cranks were left WIDE open to be hurt, and hurt they were.

On a more on-topic note; I knew someone who used to live near me who was so excited about this 350$ bike he got from target and his mom got one for 400$! Woo, im so excited to see an expensieve target bike. It was a mongoose. A horrible mongoose... and his mom had one too. After teaching him to ride a bike, he had to walk up the hill that was the only way out of the culdesac. Then two more hills to where we went a lot when scooters and such were huge. His bike was "nicer" than mine as he thought. Then his chain started rattling, hitting his derrailer, his brake cable stopped working, his front tube popped, his pedal-thingy bent, and his shocks... woah. I said I could fix it, but after meddling with it for an hour or so I told him it was a wreck. I did fix his brakes though by tightening it a lot. Then he rode his moms bike. For about a week, it was working fine. Then more problems arose. And instead of taking the heat from his mom, he stopped using it. Although I do admit forks are nice and all, but if youre going to spend 350$ on a bike, please, dear god; buy a nice bike. I dont mean a 2005 NRS2 (my bike I bought recently), but you could maybe buy a Giant IGUANA, or a Giant Boulder, Rincon, or their new Upland line. Im not sure how much the '05 iguana costs, but my dads getting one. Heck, im pretty sure its under 400$, and it has disc brakes, a good starter-level Judy fork... I don't feel like rattling out the details, but the point is that you CAN buy a high-quality GIANT bike (don't buy any other bike company... hahaha) for the same price. Check out this years Boulder... my LBS is selling a lot of them for 189$US, and they've been on sale forever practicaly. Oh, and I love my LBS becuase they carry a LOT of Giants... including the Boulders (nearly 7), Warps (DS1, DS2, DS3), some road bikes (2 freaky yellow ones), and many others.

Look for a cheap hardtail... Giant's '05 site has a bunch... go to Recreational Mountain, then there all hardtails. May I recommend the Iguana for a little more money? Or an Upland SE for a cheaper crowd? This years Boulders sure look nice... next years just have relatively the same stuff, but new colors. Or if you dont like Giant because you don't like good bike companies (lol), then many other companys sell nice hardtails for an even nicer price! But don't expect to get a nice FS for under 500$. If youre willing, that nice AC frame is replacing the Giant Warps for their lower-end FS bikes. 450 buys you a Giant Warp/AC (I guess their renaming the line, in incorporation with the frame) with low-end componets. 100$US more gets you mostly the same stuff as the DS1, minus the fork and brakes. from 550$US we go to 850$US for the DS1/AC1? I personally prefer the AC frame over the '04's frame. It looks good AND it weighs a little less.

If you dont want to read all that, then just read this. Buy a hardtail. You can get a nice hardtail for under 500$ most of the time if you know where to shop. But DON'T ever try to get a nice FS bike for that price. And department store bikes dont cut it.


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## uktrailmonster (Oct 10, 2004)

*Mountain biking is expensive*

Cheap dept store "mountain" bikes are not safe to be ridden on proper mountain trails. I certainly wouldn't let my loved ones near them. Perhaps they are ok for someone who just wants to ride casually on their local footpaths. For those who argue that a $100 mountain bike is better than nothing, I have to disagree. If you only have $100 to spend and want to take up real mountain biking on proper trails, I'm afraid you're out of luck. At best you will end up with a broken bike, at worst broken limbs or worse. The hard fact is that SAFE mountain biking costs a reasonable amount of money. Better to spend your $100 on a nice tennis racquet!


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## Call_me_Clyde (Oct 27, 2004)

I alomst posted in defense of discount store bikes until my experience this weekend. I was one of so many that figure, hey...what the heck, it's a kids bike, why spend all kinds of money on it? So, in September, I purchased a 20" Mongoose and a 24" Next for my 8 yr old son and 11 yr old daughter, respectively. The Mongoose was $100.00 and the Next, $80.00. They've ridden the bikes a total of two times so far, as I only have them every other weekend (another reason I justified in my mind not to buy more expensive bikes). My daughter noticed a "clicking sound" coming from the front rim, which I almost passed off as nothing. Well, I decided to do the right thing and take them to the LBS and have them tuned up.

I negotiated a price of $100.00, tax included for the tune-ups. The Mongoose was in decent shape, and only needed minor adjustments. The Next needed major adjustments, and we found that the housing for the bearings on the front rim was defective. I took the bike back to WalMart where I purchased them and they wanted to swap the bike out. I insisted that they just swap the front rim, as I had just spent the money for the tech to tune it up. The "assembler" wasn't too happy with this approach, and I exchanged some heated words with the kid, but got my way. We shook hands after the swap out and all was well. This kid didn't want to do the rim swap because he was supposed to be off the clock. The swap took two minutes, people....two minutes. In the end, I got what I asked for, and I got what I deserved.

I got what I asked for, in that WalMart swapped out the front wheel. I got what I deserved, because I went cheap on my kids bikes. I do think the bikes will serve their purpose, don't get me wrong. I ended up spending better part of $300.00 on two overall inferior products. I could have spent a total of $400.00 at my LBS, and probably would have been given lifetime tune ups. I certainly would have been given better customer service. Penny wise and dollar foolish.

I should have spent the money on better bikes for the following reasons:

1) They're my kids. I bought a good bike for myself because I wanted quality and a safe product. They deserve the same.

2) The better bikes will last. Yes, the kids will outgrow them, but when they do, I have a viable trade in, or a bike I can give to another child who will enjoy the bike for the reasons I pointed out earlier-quality and safety.

3) Peace of mind. If I had kept the first two points in mind, I wouldn't be feeling like the idiot I feel like right now.

Bottom line, do the right thing. Spend the money to buy a quality product from an LBS you trust. The web site says it all, Bikes are not toys.

Clyde


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## rustus (May 28, 2004)

*re helmets*



JmZ said:


> Helmets.
> 
> I was riding at Fort Custer over the wekend and came across quite a few riders on the trails not wearing any helmets. Mostly department store bikes or just above it. Saw one group that was a family of six or eight - great to see 'em on bikes, and on the trails, but not one had a helmet. Spending $200 or so on the bike and then refusing to spend another $20 or $30 on your head isn't a bargain I'm willing to make.
> 
> ...


 this is about helmets rather than dept. store bikes. i hate the looks of most helmets (an alien egg comes to mind) but wear one anyway (my gf insisted). while riding a favorite trail two weeks ago with a friend who has much more experience, he went over the bars, cracked his helmet, and broke two fingers. we had about a three or four mile hike out to a paved road. had he not been wearing a helmet we, and especially he, would have been in serious trouble. in our area cellphones do not work, there is no vehicle access to any part of this trail (including helicopter), and very few hikers or other bikers. it would have been hours before i could have gotten help, even though we made sure people knew where we were going (always a good idea). i now refuse to ride with anyone who is not wearing a helmet.


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## bhutata (Jan 13, 2004)

After taking my girlfriend out for a couple of bike rides this fall on some borrowed wheels, her first time back on a bike since she was 12, she told me that she'd asked her father for a bike for her birthday in October. (I'll be gentlemanly enough not to mention her age, but I'm in my 40s and I'm no cradle robber.) 

Talk about mixed feeling! I was thrilled that she wanted to get into biking with me, but I KNEW that her father would buy a bike from Walmart (he owns a full suspension Mongoose), but my budget wouldn't stretch to buy a decent new bike that quick and didn't know what I could do to help the situation. A few weeks before her birthday I walked into my favorite LBS and saw a used bike they'd just put on the floor that morning, a very clean, old-school Trek 830 Antelope, with speckled lime-green paint and Bio-Pace chainrings. It was even her size, and all for only $65. I took it home immediately and delivered it to her the next day as an early B-day present, complete with a new Giro helmet from the clearance table. 

She was thrilled, mission accomplished. I've even introduced her just a bit to my favorite MTB trail and she's more than game to pushing her boundaries to challenge herself to get into better shape and improve her skills. 

So what did her father buy for her birthday instead? A fat-ass, ultra-gel-padded, double-spring Bell saddle from Wally World. ARGHHHH! Before she even knew she was getting it I'd already explained why you don't want a seat that's too wide or with too much padding, but she decided to have me put it on for her to try out, at least in part to avoid offending her dad. That's OK, I just picked up a decent women's saddle from the MTBR classifieds and when the time is right, I'll put it on her bike. I'm already getting into upgraditis with her bike with a suspension seatpost and most recently, and in keeping with the spirit of her old-school bike, a Softride suspension stem. 

Hey, if a Huffy is all you got, ride it for what it's worth. But I gotta say, it feels great to have saved someone from that fate! And my girlfriend? She's a definite keeper!


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## krayzie (Nov 12, 2004)

But sometimes I think you need to own a Huffy (as in something that is made of a bunch of steel piping thrown together with 2 wheels that resembles a bicycle) to appreciate how smooth and confident it is to ride a proper bike. I always thought bikes are inexpensive commodities until I learned the hard way.

I began when my old neighbor left me his mid-90's Huffy when he moved away and I rode that thing for about 6 months before the front wheel suddenly had metal fatigue and gave me an endo that almost broke my right wrist and barely avoided a car crash (it still hurts now at the gym after 4 months). Then I went and bought an used Intersport dept. store bike circa. 1986 for 50 bucks thinking anything would be better than Wally World's bike and after 3 weeks and a dozen chainsucks later, the right pedal disintegrated. Thinking maybe it was an aging problem, with only 200 bucks in the pocket at the time I went to Sport Chek (which is essentially Intersport in Canada) and bought this new one-size-fits-all "dual suspension" bike (I'm pretty sure it's made by the same China factory that makes Ironhorse due to similar cues with the decals) during late summer. As a result, I had to spend countless hours burning the midnite oil just to fix brake squeals that never seemed to go away, derailleurs that never seemed to shift properly, and retighten this "rear coilover" spring that seemed to go loose every week. The wheels also went untrued after the first week but I thought it was my weight back then (260lbs). I spend so much time adjusting the bike that my whole street probably thought I'm nuts biking back and forth on the sidewalk outside my house all the time. The free 1yr maintainence service didn't help either since the "technican" seemed even more clueless than I was so I eventually learned all my wrenching from reading a few books at the local Chapters bookstore. 

After 2 months, 20 pounds less and a numb butt later, I sold my "self-fixed" bike and got myself a Gary Fisher by laying down some heavy cash. The difference is like a Yugo and a Porsche. I'm now a convinced man!


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## mtbnewguy (Nov 29, 2004)

*you are the engine*

4 years ago I bought a magna bike from Target, paid $80 for it, used it for about a month or so and dumped it in my dad's garage. 4 weeks ago I decided to give MTB another try, and while saving for a better bike I'm riding my old one. Anyways, yesterday my buddies and I where riding at a local trail, which has very steep hills. After a few yards of climbing I was out of my breath and one of the guys said: here, ride my bike for the climb and I'll ride yours (his bike is a salsa caballero full suspension... "the works") let me tell you: It made all the difference of the world for me. I was able to climb that hill whit ease. But at the same time, *he was also able* to reach the top riding my old, rusty and heavy bike. So i guess it's also a matter of ability/ strength.


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## alexw. (Nov 21, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> I had no much options when it got the moment to buy a bike by and for myself. So I had to stick to a Dept. Store bike which I enjoyed a lot and rode it and mantained it until it was stolen....
> 
> But the sanest advice to a beginner should be to get a low price hardtail from a major brand at a LBS. Next step (IMHO) should be a low end Full Suspension from reputated brands (like Specialized, Giant, Trek and why not? Mongoose or Diamond Back).
> 
> ...


I have a trek 3700 now, and i was wishing to spend all of my money (im only 15) on a really good bike. I've gotten really into the sport and i think that i am not all that bad. My bike barely survives my rides, and i am not too eager to buy a cheap bike again...
but of course i am no expert...any suggestions?


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## jkish (Dec 11, 2004)

*Wal-mart Schwinn*

I havn't ridden in over 10 years and I wanted a bicycle just to get in shape (I weight 210 lbs). Years ago I rode a lot and only bought quality bikes (I've owned Specialized and Giant among others). I didn't want to spend much so I went to Wal-mart and ended up buying a Schwinn Sidewinder ($110.00). I was impressed with the fact that it wasn't completely made out of the cheepest stamped metal. My initial thought was that if something broke I would just upgrade as I went. I used to ride hard core old school style (I'm 40 now). I didn't expect to ride my new cheepo on the dirt much, but the old bug bit again. I forgot how much fun it was to ride and went crazy on my first outing and tore up the poor Schwinn. After only 9 miles the bottom bracket was loose. It wasn't assembled properly from the factory. I bought a crank puller to do the repair but the crank was pressed on so hard that the puller stripped out the removal threads on the crank. I had to saw the crank in half to remove it! While I was fighting with the crank I noticed my wheels didn't spin properly. After I removed the wheels, and upon further inspection, I discovered that I had bent both axles. I'm going to replace those parts and send it back into the ring for round 2 to see what happens next! Eventually I'll completely morph the Schwinn into a decent machine with quality components. I still don't think that I made a bad purchase. You get what you pay for. This bike mostly suffered from poor assembly. Before it was rideable I had to do a lot of adjusting to get it to shift smoothly and brake well. In addition, I don't think the axle would have bent under normal use or with a lighter rider. It wasn't designed to go off road. There is a sticker on the bike that says so. As for the loose crank, I could've taken it back and got a replacement. Wal-mart is excellent with returns. But then I couldn't shop for cranks then could I? If you get passed on the trail by an old guy riding a custom Schwinn, you'll know who it is.


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## dante (Jan 12, 2004)

just a note, the cheapest bike you get in a bike shop will be light-years better than that bike. your main problems are going to be:

wheels - those are 36H single-wall rims. they will hardly ever be perfectly true, and they make them 36H in order to give them a tad bit more strength. don't be fooled. they're weak as butter and if you rode around the city you'd still bend them, let alone on any type of trail. stay away from 36H rims (even in bike stores unless its a FR bike).

7-speed freewheel. a freewheel screws into the hub, instead of sliding on like a cassette. it'd be almost impossible to find freewheel-style wheels, so if you replace your wheelset you'll have to find a 7-speed cassette. they're out there, or at least they used to be, but they're pretty scarce now (ebay maybe?). if you go to 8-speed (or 9) you'll need to replace at least your rear shifter, and possibly your chain and chainrings as well. note, 7 speed hubs and 8/9 speed hubs are different, so when you replace your wheels plan ahead...

shifters, derailleurs, brakes should be fine, they might just need a little bit of attention to keep everything shifting smoothly.

fork, handlebars, stem, seatpost, frame are all going to be stout components. which means that they should last a while but be pretty heavy... the steel frame probably adds 5-7 pounds or more. probably more... 

my advice would be to ride this until you can get $300-350 together and head to a real LBS. it will get you a much lighter/stiffer Aluminum frame, 8 speed cassette, rapid-fire shifters, stronger wheels, better crank/bb, hell, ours even comes with disc brakes at that price point.  

the MAIN thing though, is that you have fun riding. sometimes we get too caught up in arguing about which $100 derailleur is better (SRAM, of course), and forget about just going for a ride.  

PM me if you have any questions.


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## jkish (Dec 11, 2004)

*Salvaged parts off the Schwinn*

I went to buy a crank for my broke Schwinn and the store owner at LBS sold me an old (like 1998) beatup K2 hardtail with 7005 Al frame, Rock Shox fork and Deore LX components for $60.00. The cables, saddle and pedals were fried and the paint was all chipped and scratched (no dents) but the components looked good. I stripped off all the components and the frame weighed only 3#'s! I took off the v-brakes seat cables and pedals from the Scwinn and totally cleaned and greased and adjusted my new chipped paint smooth running 1/2 the weight mtb bike. I have only $170.00 into my bike with spare parts to keep me running!


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

My experience with these cheap bikes was very short, and very painful. I was given one of these bikes as a gift, and it reminded how much I loved riding. But while standing on the cranks in a tall gear to clear a 4 lane intersection (I was afraid to try shifting the cheap derailler in this critical situation) the drive pin on the one piece crank broke off, and I did one very hard faceplant in the middle of the road. Fortunately I'd been foolish enough to buy a helmet that was worth more than the bike! When I looked at the broken part the "weld" on the pin was actually cast onto the bottom of the pin to look like a properly welded part. Ther are a lot of bike companies working very hard to bring decent bikes to the market at $300, and $5-600 will get a hardtail that shouldn't need any upgrades for a long time (my recommendation). IMHO anything less isn't a real bike. You can spend less, but you won't save any money.


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## trickten (Sep 3, 2004)

I also bought a cheap d.s. mountain bike just to get in shape. The more I rode, the more I wanted to ride. I started doing more techinical trails and steeper climbs. It was hell until a friend of mine let me ride his higher quality hardtail and WOW, what a difference. It didn't take me long to pick up a decent bike after that.


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## MtBkrJoe (Sep 22, 2004)

*Never get a dept store bike*

My girlfriend decided she wanted a mtn bike and said a dept store bike would be fine. I told her that I would buy her a bike and to stay away from dept store bikes. She went to our LBS and rode a few and decided on one that fit the best. So I bought her a Trek 4300. A couple of reasons I bought my gf a 4300 instead of a dept store bike. I know the 4300 is not a great bike by any means, but she is 115 lbs and not a hard rider and I will swap parts as the wear out. Its a good frame to start with.

First of all, we went riding with a few friends on a relatively easy trail. Our friends have there old wal-mart bikes and could not begin to keep up with us. We swapped bikes with them and they were amazed at how their riding improved and are now in the market for some new bikes.

Second, two other friends of ours have wal-mart bikes. They have now purchased 4 bikes this year (for some reason they dont learn and keep buying cheap bikes) because they have destroyed the other bikes. Bent wheels, brakes that dont work, shifters that dont work, the list goes on and on. I tried to talk them in to getting some entry level bikes from a LBS. Maybe after these tear up, they will buy a decent Trek, Specialized, or Giant.

Just my $.02


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## bhutata (Jan 13, 2004)

It is possible to find a bike for well under $300 that is trail-worthy, but that means going the used route. I found my Trek 7000 for $150 and I recently bought my girlfriend's son a GT Outpost Trail for $50. Both of these came from local sellers on ebay, where it was possible to inspect the bike before bidding and I could avoid shipping charges. I also bought my girlfriend a gently used Trek 830 for $65 at a LBS. 

It's easy to search for local sellers on ebay. If you don't know how that trick works, just go to the Cycling section, click on "Advanced Search", then enter whatever you want to search for; I usually just enter a wildcard (*). Then scroll down and check the option that reads "Items within xx miles of ZIP code" and decide how far you want to go to pick up your bike. Always be sure to double-check that the seller is willing to allow local pickup of the bike. I haven't run into this problem, but I know some sellers are pretty anal about that.

Yeah, the Trek 830 and the GT Outpost Trail are defnitely old-school and full rigid, but they're great beginner MTBs for folks on a tight budget, both in excellent condition, and worlds better than a dept store bike. I'm convinced that, considering how clean these two bikes are, they're even better than buying a bike from a LBS with cheap Shimano Acera/Alivio components and RST or Suntour forks, but just my 2 cents.


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## trickten (Sep 3, 2004)

*I finally came over from the dark side.*



gregg said:


> (Thanks to JimC for the link)
> 
> An excellent article at ConsumerReports.org titled "Cheap bikes are not bargains"
> 
> ...


After some research and shopping around I picked up a Schwinn Mesa for my first real bike. Man, what a difference. I went right out and picked up another bike for my daughter, a Giant Boulder. Now we just have to wait until all the ice and snow goes away.


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## jkish (Dec 11, 2004)

After destroying a dept. store Schwinn ($120) from misuse (lasted one day) and tearing up a good used K2 hardtail (lasted 2 weeks @ $135), I have learned a valuable lesson that I would like to share with you. Every bicycle, no matter what the price, has a specific use it was designed for.

Dept. store bicycles are a very inexpensive ($200 or less) means of getting on two wheels but not much more. They are perfectly suited for children who are just learning to ride and will quickly outgrow their bike. The also work great for average weight riders to putter around town on. Most, if not all of them are _not_ designed to go off-road, jump or do stunts with. There is usually a sticker on the bicycle that says so. Lighter riders can get away with more abuse on these bicycles than heavier riders. Also, Dept. store bicycles will need much more frequent maintenance/adjusting than one from a local bike store. If you want to hit the trails or aren't mechanically inclined, these bikes are _not_ for you.

On the other hand, your local bike shop has a wide variety of bicycles as well as experienced sales people to help select the best bicycle for your needs. (usually beyond your needs _and_ mean$ ) Expect to pay more than $200 for a very basic trail-worthy bike. If you want to do more than ride the smoother trails prepare to spend some cash or you will be throwing your money away. Getting big air and flying through rough rocky trails takes some cash. The heavier you are even more so. Every second in the air can cost hundreds of dollars in machinery. I think its worth it!

After spending over $250 bucks on the _wrong_ bicycle(s) I have realized in order to get a bicycle that is light enough for rough, long trail rides, and that will reliably stand up to my 210lb weight dropping occasionally off 5+ feet is going to cost me approx. $1600 big ones.

In short, dept. store bicyles are an inexpensive way to get into the wonderful world of cycling if used within their limitations.

By the way, I'm getting a Kona Coiler 
https://www.konaworld.com/Prod/000000106/2K5_Coiler_Side-xl.jpg


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## jasonw (Sep 13, 2004)

Just wanted to add. I purchased a Roadmaster MT Storm from my local Wal-Mart m3 years ago. The bike is still running very strong. I admit it has taken some maintenance to keep it looking and running good but nothing to hard. I ride this bike down a lot of trails in the forest and have had this bike all over the state on trails. The biggest problem I have had with this bike is others “here and there” with name brand LBS bikes cracking jokes and making fun of me for what I ride. As far as the tune ups. I do all my own work on all my bikes. One time in the last 3 years I was stumped so I took it to the local bike shop. The guy there wrenched on it for a good half hour, It was good as new when he was done. He didn’t charge me a dime. I ride this bike because it is what I can afford and there is nothing wrong with it or that. I do however see a problem with a lot of the misleading statements in this thread. I am not sure what a lot of you would consider trail worthy but my Wal-mart bike has logged a whole lot of miles on trails all over the state so it seems pretty trail worthy to me. I will also agree with the weight of the bike. It would bike nice if it were a little lighter but I will put up with a heavier bike and save my $300-400-500- and take my son to d\Disney Land instead thank you


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## DirtDawg (Aug 31, 2004)

*How Wrong You Are*

jasonw

Well you obviously do not ride the type of trails or terrain that the rest of us do. As for your roadmaster, your lucky that you havent had to do more work to it and that you havent been killed by the darned thing. The last dept store bike I had (many moons ago) choppered the forks after three passes off a 3ft drop (junk). That could have caused a really bad head injury. Do you have to spend a fortune for a good bike (NO) I purchased my Cannondale F2000 Frame and fork for $100 - the component choice is what cost me more money. XTR, Mavic, and TruVativ Components are not the cheapest, but that?s my choice, I could have got all the other items for about $150. Would I have been happy(NO) it would have performed much like your roadmaster (very sluggish)and weighed a ton - as is my bike weighs in at 22lbs and I'm sure I can trim some more fat off of it, not bad for an XC bike. As for the $300-400-500 you saved to take your son to Disney Land (what a waste - dland is overrated) you could have purchased something that would have lasted a good 8-10 years for that amount besides just memories.

When you enter this forum you have to remember that to most of us biking is one of if not the most important priority in our lives. Most people who post here live to ride - not to go to Disney Land. You must also consider how much most of us ride in a week, just commuting I put on around 50mi a week and that's just ball sweat compared to some of the other folks in the posts.

It all comes down to you, are you an occasional trail rider, a weekend warrior, daily commuter, XC racer, downhill maniac, freeride kamikaze, or an urban thrasher. This and how much you love to ride will inevitably determine how much you want to contribute to purchasing a bike. You choose not to spend much and that's ok, but for me I choose to pay more, get more, and enjoy more. 
As for you and your lead sled bike, I hope it don't kill ya.


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*If I understand your post*

. I do all my own work on all my bikes.

>_ most beginners don't_

One time in the last 3 years I was stumped so I took it to the local bike shop. The guy there wrenched on it for a good half hour, It was good as new when he was done. He didn't charge me a dime. I

> _please advise where your free shop is? I'm going to "patronize" them immediately as I have no money._

I ride this bike because it is what I can afford and there is nothing wrong with it or that. I do however see a problem with a lot of the misleading statements in this thread.

_> yeah, those guys at Consumers Reports are a real bunch of misleading folks_ 

I am not sure what a lot of you would consider trail worthy but my Wal-mart bike has logged a whole lot of miles on trails all over the state so it seems pretty trail worthy to me. I will also agree with the weight of the bike. It would bike nice if it were a little lighter but I will put up with a heavier bike and save my $300-400-500- and take my son to d\Disney Land instead thank you[/QUOTE]

> _you can afford Disneyland but not another $100 for a decent safe bike? Hmn._

Jim


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

jasonw said:


> Just wanted to add. I purchased a Roadmaster MT Storm from my local Wal-Mart m3 years ago. The bike is still running very strong. I admit it has taken some maintenance to keep it looking and running good but nothing to hard. I ride this bike down a lot of trails in the forest and have had this bike all over the state on trails. The biggest problem I have had with this bike is others "here and there" with name brand LBS bikes cracking jokes and making fun of me for what I ride. As far as the tune ups. I do all my own work on all my bikes. One time in the last 3 years I was stumped so I took it to the local bike shop. The guy there wrenched on it for a good half hour, It was good as new when he was done. He didn't charge me a dime. I ride this bike because it is what I can afford and there is nothing wrong with it or that. I do however see a problem with a lot of the misleading statements in this thread. I am not sure what a lot of you would consider trail worthy but my Wal-mart bike has logged a whole lot of miles on trails all over the state so it seems pretty trail worthy to me. I will also agree with the weight of the bike. It would bike nice if it were a little lighter but I will put up with a heavier bike and save my $300-400-500- and take my son to d\Disney Land instead thank you


When I moved in with my b/f (later my hubby), I found one of these in his garage. He had ridden it a grand total of twice, once back home from Walmart where he bought it, and again to the supermarket and back. It didn't fit him, the frame was way too small (he now rides a 21"), and it had sat in the garage for 2 years with flat tyres. I knew a little about how to look after bikes, having been riding low end mountain bikes for several years, and I took a look at it. The thing weighed a ton, and I couldn't get the gears to stop slipping no matter how I adjusted them. When I expressed an interest in getting another bike for myself, my hubby said he'd just use his old Roadmaster to see if he liked riding. I told him point blank that there was no way I'd ride offroad with him on that bike, and that I'd wait to get a bike until we could afford two. He now rides a Jamis Cross Country 2.0 and is loving riding so much that we're planning on what upgrades to get him to make his bike perform even better.

If you really can't afford a proper bike from a LBS, and all you have is $100, please don't opt for a Walmart bike as a suitable replacement. For $100 I'm sure you could get a used bike that will do a lot better for you than anything at Walmart... all you have to do is be patient.

- Jen.


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## jasonw (Sep 13, 2004)

Hmmm were to start. Ok the reference to Disneyland was meant to mean I would rather spend time out with the family than out riding my bike. I am sure there are those of you that “live to ride” if you would rather ride than spend time with your family “I am not trying to put words in your mouth” then those are your own demons. The misleading statement was not directed to CR It was directed at posts defining these bikes as unsafe. I don’t know maybe you ride a lot harder than I do and put your bikes through WAY more abuse than I do but I personally have only laid mine down once on account of my own stupidity. Never broke a frame, Never broke a fork, Never broke a rim, So far I have not broken or cracked anything and have no reason to question this bike. I guess it is possible I got one of the “middle of the week” bikes and there fir it was built better but highly unlikely. Who knows maybe one day I will snap a frame in half and start thinking like everyone ells here and possibly pay more for a bike but that’s unlikely. I ride my bike 5-10 miles 2 days a week and have gone as far as 50 miles on my days off on USFS trails. Sure I have had mechanical malfunctions on the trail but who of us have not?


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## DirtDawg (Aug 31, 2004)

jasonw said:


> Hmmm were to start. Ok the reference to Disneyland was meant to mean I would rather spend time out with the family than out riding my bike. I am sure there are those of you that ?live to ride? if you would rather ride than spend time with your family ?I am not trying to put words in your mouth? then those are your own demons.


Well Demons they may be, but their my family and they all ride bikes. We ride together and apart. So you put no words in my mouth because I can enjoy my family and ride at the same time, hell my wife and youngest daughter can stay pretty close to me on some fast ass singletrack after riding for only a couple of years. My wife rides a GF WaHoo and my daughter rides a ProClass cromo hardtail. My thought is if your gona spend time with the family it should be doing something that you all like ( I must be lucky in that aspect). 
Sorry your sticking with the led sled. 
If I see you on the trail I will make sure and smile as I zip by light as a feather.


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## jasonw (Sep 13, 2004)

I am happy to hear you have something to do with the family that you enjoy. I have several hobbies. Weight Lifting, Motor cycles, I am a Herpetologist and I Love that. None of these my family shares with me so any chance I get I do something odd with them. LOL “if you saw me on the trail” Your suppose to stay clear LOLJ can help that one. Another person on these very forums told me that a couple years ago. “If I see you out there I will stay way far away from you on that POS” I suppose if my biking was really a hobbies of mine I might want a better bike but to be honest I would have to say its last on my hobby list. I believe this has turned into a debate that can only be won when someone decides to let the other say the last word so that is what I am going to do. Please don’t let my views, thoughts or ideas affect how you will answer, reply to any other thread I may start. Its not important what we ride or what we think of it. The importance is that we do ride and help keep the sport alive in a since, trails opened and have fun doing it.


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## DirtDawg (Aug 31, 2004)

jasonw said:


> I believe this has turned into a debate that can only be won when someone decides to let the other say the last word so that is what I am going to do. Please dont let my views, thoughts or ideas affect how you will answer, reply to any other thread I may start. Its not important what we ride or what we think of it. The importance is that we do ride and help keep the sport alive in a since, trails opened and have fun doing it.


A debate? Yes - these forums are always a debate and many times it keeps the conversation flowing such as in this thread. Your views are your views and you should stand up for them, but if you want to back down then you have gained nothing. Any way, you do have one point correct - that being-> you ride what you have, this is the most important point of all the ramblings here. I do feel very sorry that you do not know the pleasure of riding a fine hand made bike. I guess when it comes to abusing ones own body - to each his own. I do admire that you still ride. Try to get the family involved with a ride around the neighborhood, hey its still riding. If I saw you on the trail I would pass by with the same greeting I would give you if you were riding a $2000 bike or a POS. So enjoy and don't get hurt on that led sled.(wear a helmet)


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## jasonw (Sep 13, 2004)

LOL Helmet? Never leave home without it. A few years ago my father lost a friend "Fell down a flight of stairs" Anyway he was given 2 very nice road bikes. He in turn gave me one and my wife the other. On our first ride she took a spill in the road. Not going fast and not injured at all but it was just enough to keep her off a bike. As for my boy, He loves riding but at 2 years old has not got it yet. I love riding his ATV though so we go on ATV rides all over our land. Someday perhaps it will be time to take him on a nice bike ride should that be what he wants to do. I have tried to get the wife back on a bike but she wont hear of it at all.


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## Dirt Junkie (Feb 22, 2005)

*I Tried That*

I started on a cheap dept store bike. buddy of mine talked me into going on a local trail ride so I went out and bought a cheap dept store special. Fortuantly it didn't ruin my experience. I fell in love with the sport... beat the snot of out that bike.. I think it lasted a whole 2 months.. then I bought my buds used moab 3 hardtail.. I'm on my 4th bike now. Just got a new prophet last month. Not so the same story for my wife though. I asked here if she would like to try it with me. She refused to let me get her a decent bike.. $400-$500 entry level hardtail. so she got here a dept store special. No joy. She didn't really take to it too well... granted I think the bike a piece of junk.. (plastic break levers!). She recently hopped on my old NRS and really liked the ride.. Keeping my fingers crossed I am rebuilding the NRS for her. (I'm a little taller so I'm trying to fit it to her better). I hoping this might give her a better experience. * I agree with the statement it could really be about how you ride. If you cruise the easyier trials and enjoy the view then the dept store bikes may work for you. I... on the other hand.. do not cruise much at all.. I enjoy the the sheer speed and challenge of the ride. Fast and hard riding is what I enjoy.. and that demands a bike of higher standards to endure the pusnishment I will put it through.


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## applegreenheckler (Feb 26, 2005)

Like Department stores most lbs have layaway. If money is an issue use that to your advantage. Especially in the north where bike shops are happy to have any sort of income come in during the winter.


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## psunuc (Mar 15, 2005)

*Decent bike, low price.*

I own both a Trek from a LBS and a Mongoose XR200 from wal-mart (for at college). Since I have been at college I have had no problems with the Mongoose at all. I have maintained it regularly and have been riding it a lot. I think that the people that have problems with these department store bikes have a problem because they treat them as though they are an LBS bike. Your best bet with a department store bike is to just take it to an LBS right away so that they can set up everything properly rather than ride a bike with loose parts which will cause premature wear. (I opted for an LBS tune-up before riding it).

My Mongoose is perfect for light off-road trails and everyday riding through town and I couldn't be happier with the $160 price tag that came with it. If someone is looking to beat on a bike and go on the long, rough trails then obviously get a LBS bike like a Trek, Cannondale, Giant, etc. If someone is on a low budget and they dont mind maintaining it a little and sticking to the softer trails then the department store bike is a decent temporary substitute for a better LBS bike. After all, its all about riding and not about waiting.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2005)

Hehe the beginners corner makes me laugh sometimes... until i remember when i was a beginner. I thought my first ride, a $300 specialed hardrock, was the sweetest thing on earth. Now i ride a $4500 Yeti Asr-sl, with single components that cost more than my entire first bike. A $700 wheelset, $250 crankset, $150 dereilleur, $800 Rockshox SID world cup.... Its a crazy world 

i should go find that old hardrock, and take it for a ride


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## Rampage (Apr 26, 2005)

*An extremely important reasoning*

Here is something that has been touched on, but not stressed enough here. Your LBS (local bike shop) is going to do more for you than just sell you a bike. One: they usually have several varieties of bikes available for about the same price range as a department store. Two: they will size you up for the bike and adjust it properly to you. This is the most important aspect of buying a bike and being a new rider. You can buy a $2K bike, but if it's not adjusted to you or it does not fit your size and or weight, it will ride like a $40 bike. It is far more dangerous to a new rider or at least up to novice to ride a bike that is not adjusted correctly than just about anything else. There are so many styles and types of components out there that a person will pretty much need to try out all of them to find one that works if they do it on their own, however, a LBS can usually tell with some uncertainty what kind of equipment you're looking at getting. And trust me on this one, most shops are out to make customers, not high end sales. They know that if you buy one and are happy, you will be back. Whether it's for service or for a new bike. I'm all for riding and agree that's it's more important to get out and ride, but why buy a $150/noservice bike when you can get into something fairly nice with service for about $50 more. And three: if you are new, don't worry so much about components. I've seen too many people buy super high end components because of name and looks. They don't ride nearly well enough to justify that level of equipment. So it weighs a bit more, so what... it's not like most beginners are going to jump into XC racing in 6 mo's. The best advice is to start at a level where you can grow and replace with age. If you start off expensive, you're going to be replacing a lot of expensive stuff until you learn how to use it. Anymore, if you buy a good bike, the components on it will usually last a good year or two. This will give you time to figure out if you like that type/style or if you might want to look at something else. Also, on a personal note, not all XC or DHers prefer FS. A good many of the best riders love Hardtails. I have and love riding them both.


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## Kyoseki (Oct 26, 2004)

Yetilicious said:


> Hehe the beginners corner makes me laugh sometimes... until i remember when i was a beginner. I thought my first ride, a $300 specialed hardrock, was the sweetest thing on earth. Now i ride a $4500 Yeti Asr-sl, with single components that cost more than my entire first bike. A $700 wheelset, $250 crankset, $150 dereilleur, $800 Rockshox SID world cup.... Its a crazy world
> 
> i should go find that old hardrock, and take it for a ride


Hey, I own a $300 Hardrock with a $450 wheelset  (ok, so I got them on closeout) The components might be sucky but the frame has taken 2000+ miles of Clyde abuse in the last year with no troubles (yeah, ok so the first wheels bent within about 50 miles..) it's just getting to the point now where I have to think about switching in some new major components or just buying a new frame and fork and moving all the parts over, it's a daily rider so I'm tempted to leave it as is.

I also own a $1500 KHS squishy ($1350+pedals, parts and tax) that's proving to be a worthwhile purchase as an entry level FS bike, but it's only 2 weeks old and I'm already shopping around for new bits (not because I have a need for them, but I'm into one of my spending splurges  )

A friend of mine bought a Dept. Store Schwinn, she's let it rust outside for the past few months though, so I've offered to go round and spanner on it for a bit for her, I'm hoping she went for a hard tail at least, but I'd like to do some riding with her (she's a spinning nut, I'm sure doing it outdoors is only a matter of time) and I don't want to see her get injured on a crap bike.


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## stormcrowe (May 16, 2005)

*Anybody know anything about Royce Union bikes?*

I just picked up a Royce Union "Gibraltar" used for $50.00. 18 speed with index shift Shimano derraileurs. It rides very well, but is completely unsuspended. Here in Indiana however, there aren't any really extreme trails to speak of. The other question I have is does anyone have any suggestions for a Mountain or offroad trike for my wife? She lost her inner ear on the right side from removal of a brain tumor and you can imagine what that did to her ability to ride a bike! I have rebuilt and restored a classic old Trike for her use, but she misses trail riding and this trike isn't suitable for anything but a paved trail or Wide flat dirt road at the most. Any help would be appreciated.


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## kirrill (Jul 20, 2004)

*quick*

note here. My first bike was a $150 "Dual suspension" Huffy from Walmart. I never weighed it, but I'd say 30-35 lbs of, what seems like a cast iron frame, wheels and handlebars. I rode it for two years without ever, once, adjusting the derailleurs, lubing the chain, tightening a single nut, bolt, etc. it's been through dirt, potholes, thrown on the ground, you name it. It never broke, squeaked, cracked, Nothing. I gave it to my friend after getting an Ibex, and he rides it still. 
My second, and current bike is an Ibex Alpine 450 for which I paid roughtly $400 with shipping. The difference I felt that came with a well-tuned bike, which was probably 5-7lbs lighter, had a better fork, brakes, etc was almost immeasurable. The ride, generally speaking is *awesome[/b[
Now: I constantly lube it, clean the drivetrain, tighten all the nuts and bolts, watch for other necessary adjustments, and treat it like a house pet. In less than a year, I've had noises in my read hub, bottom bracket, headset, and who knows where else, while this bike hasn't taken half the abuse my old Huffy did. 
This is not a rant about Ibex, because overall, their customer service is extremely quick, polite, and generally comes with great advice. The bike, for the money, I still feel is absolutely Kickass and I love owning and riding it. 
I wrote all this because of 2 points I wanna make.
1. Just because you buy a bike in a Dept store, it doesn't mean you won't enjoy riding it, or it will break or won't give you a good deal of great service.
2. To appreciate an LBS-type bike, even an entry level, I think you just Have to ride something that comes off a Walmart Shelf, weighs 35 lbs and has a price tag of < $150

..okay.. maybe that wasn't so quick.. *


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## Keldog (May 31, 2005)

kirrill said:


> note here. My first bike was a $150 "Dual suspension" Huffy from Walmart. I never weighed it, but I'd say 30-35 lbs of, what seems like a cast iron frame, wheels and handlebars. I rode it for two years without ever, once, adjusting the derailleurs, lubing the chain, tightening a single nut, bolt, etc. it's been through dirt, potholes, thrown on the ground, you name it. It never broke, squeaked, cracked, Nothing. I gave it to my friend after getting an Ibex, and he rides it still.


My first "mountain bike" was a Mongoose from Walmart. Same deal. Rode the heck out of it for three years. Didn't shift well. But I only used three gears on the trail. Finally blew out the bearings in the rear axle. I think it actually did me good pumping that beast uphill over tree roots. I knew it was cheap, but I wanted to try biking before sinking money into it. This Spring, the wife let me shell out $500 for an IronHorse Warrior Disc. Now I'm riding up the same hills without leaving the seat.

Money makes a difference. But a cheap bike is like freeweights. Good for training. Once you become experienced and passionate, it's time to shell out the dough for a decent bike.


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## justaguy (Jun 9, 2005)

I bought a bike (rigid) called Black River or something like that from Sears in about 1995 to ride the trails with my kids. Two years ago, my doctor said I had to start taking blood pressure medicine or lose some weight. I decided to start riding again, and in about two months trashed the old Black River on some very mild trail riding. Seems like I was breaking something every time I rode (I am sure the 260 lbs had something to do with it). I found a Trek 8500 with disk brakes on Ebay and bought it. That bike has held up great with only one boken spoke and ther regular maintenance in the last two years. I just upgraded again to a Liquid 10. I know a lot of people don't like them, but I love it. Bought it from a college student who needed the money more than the bike. Had already upgraded the rear derailler to XTR and changed the front fork to a Z1. It is a GREAT bike for me. I still ride the mild to intermediate trails, but the addition of a rear suspension is great. Now 40 years old and still 240 lbs, but don't need the blood pressure medicine. I think the key is to get the best thing you can afford at the time, and ride the wheels off it. Upgrade when you can. There is always something lighter, faster, sweeter.....


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## cdub (Feb 27, 2005)

jasonw said:


> I do however see a problem with a lot of the misleading statements in this thread. I am not sure what a lot of you would consider trail worthy but my Wal-mart bike has logged a whole lot of miles on trails all over the state so it seems pretty trail worthy to me. I will also agree with the weight of the bike. It would bike nice if it were a little lighter but I will put up with a heavier bike and save my $300-400-500- and take my son to d\Disney Land instead thank you


Just because its trail worthy to you does not mean its a good bike. i weigh 140 and i guarentee if i took that on an everage ride i would bust something. it comes down to how far you want your riding to progress. i have ridden a wal-mart bike cause my friend has one and can say i would be such a worse rider if i rode that. now i don't have a lot of money, but i saved for years to buy my bike and i couldn't be happier. i mean not going out to dinner and just raioning money the best i could to get this bike. for serious mtn bikers these bikes simply wont do. but for the "recreational" rider, like i assume you are. they are just fine


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## Rthur2sheds (Apr 26, 2005)

*one sitting in my garage right now...*

no, it's not mine. My wife's cousin bought a Wal-Mart Mongoose last year... it is a dual suspension job and it is absolute crap.

Weighs a ton and is fitted with garbage components... plastic chain ring guard...shite brakes... Acera derailleur

I tried helping him out by giving him a Bontrager saddle to replace the gel saddle his came with... well, I come to find out that the saddle and top portion of the saddle clamp are one piece! He has to get a new seat post (27.2) in order to use the new saddle! Oh yeah, and the seat post that came with it is only about 6" long...

we went out last weekend and his rear wheel went out of true to the point that the bike had to be pushed.

Funniest thing about it is,it is by far the heaviest bike I have EVER encounetered, yet on the top tube emblazoned in bold graphics it reads: LIGHTWEIGHT ALUMINUM FRAME

I know that these bikes fill a need... but if you plan on riding with any frequency and would actually like to ENJOY the ride, get a decent used bike on eBay


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## Dhorn33 (May 3, 2005)

I just spent the last 30 minutes reading all the posts on this thread and I think it is a great discussion with a lot of very valid points. My story is this....
My first experience with a mountain bike was back in 1986 (I was 11) when my Dad tried to convince me that these new "mountain bikes" were cool and what I should have to putz around town on. I wanted no part of it and instead got a Torker 2 freestyle bike that I quickly grew bored of.
The next summer I saved up my lawnmowing money and bought a brand new Diamond Back entry level mountain bike. At that time it probably cost almost what it would now - around $250. I rode the heck out of that bike - and sold it to a friend a couple years later. I then bought a used Diamond Back Topanga and this was a great bike too - but was just a little too big for me. On both of these bikes I upgraded components as they broke or wore out and put hundreds or thousands of miles on them cruising the trails around town and to get from A to B. Unfortunately, once I got my driver's license the bike did not get too many miles put on it.

A few years later I went off to college and used my bike as my primary mode of transportation. My trusty Diamond Back served the purpose well - but I got caught up in reading too many issues of Mountain Bike Action and seeing all the trick new MTB's on campus! During my 2nd year I traded in the Diamond Back for a shiny new Schwinn High Sierra SS. At that time this was a $600 bike on year end closeout for around $450. It had a really crappy front shock and full STX components. Almost immediately I traded in the crappy shock for a slightly used Manitou 3 fork (now a vintage part I guess?). I started riding a lot and even went on a couple trips out to CO to Vail, Aspen, Snowmass, Winter Park, etc. As a starving college kid I didn't have much money to spend on a bike but I managed to slowly upgrade every component of my Schwinn to with the latest XT widgets. As it sits now it has XT everything (rear derailer, cranks, shifter/brake pods, v-brakes) and a Manitou FSti fork. One time I added it all up and I figure I have put more than $1600 into this bike! It may not be the latest and greatest but it has high quality components, weighs around 26 pounds (not bad for a heavy cromo frame) and rides very sweet. Given what I have seen in the bike shops there really doesn't seem to be much difference between this bike and what I could by now - with the exception of the disk brakes that are available now.

Since I started riding mountian bikes I have had several friends get started in the hobby too. All of them seem to have the same idea -they will get a cheap department store bike because it is cheap and they will come riding with me. All have learned quickly! In college my roommate had some no-name bike from Montgomery Wards and on our first ride he got so upset at the skipping chain that he vowed to never ride a cheap bike again. He went and bought a Giant Iquana and later upgraded that to a Baracuda aluminum frame with a nice air/oil front shock. My girlfriends both went through the same thing - riding cheap bikes because "why would I spend money on a bike when it will ride exactly the same!" and one ended up with a Schwinn Moab and the other a Gary Fisher Aquila.

Meanwhile, my best friend has been telling me he wants a bike for the past 12 years! He has lived in CO at a resort and been around bikes for a long time - but for some reason he never made it a priority and never took the plunge to buy a bike. From time to time he would ask me about the "full suspension bike" at Target or Walmart from brands like Pacific, Jeep or Magna. Always I told him that he would be better off finding a used hardtail from a pawn shop, garage sale, etc because it will ride 100x nicer. For some reason he thought that a bike that has suspension must be better than one without- regardless of the quality of the bike! This spring after having him tell me about the latest and greatest sweet full suspension bike from Walmart that said Schwinn on it (and weighed 40+ pounds!) I put together a bike for him out of parts that I found at a local "junk day". The bike is a high quality cromo frame with my old STX rapid fire shifter and brakes and old school LX cranks, hubs, derailers, etc. He loves riding this bike! It fits him well (it is a 20" frame and he is 6-1) and rides beatifully. He now calls me almost daily to go on a bike ride! 

I know this is long- but it amazes me the deals or freebies that you can find if you look for bikes. I built my friends bike out of free parts from a Specialized Hard Rock and another bike that people were throwing in the garbage! I also picked up a really nice - but old - Diamond Back Ascent EX from a pawn shop recently for $15! I tuned it up, replaced the tires and cables and this bike rides better and is more durable than anything you will ever find at Walmart or Target! Lastly, I bought my friend's wife a $3 Giant Rincon at a garage sale and all it needs is a tuneup (which I do for nothing) and a seat and she will be set! I have seen sweet deals at local bike shops, in the paper, online and at garage sales. In my opinion anyone will be better off with a higher quality used bike shop type bike than anything you could get at a big box store. You may not have the latest bling full suspension disk brake rig - but you will have a qualiy, durable and long lasting bike with a little $$ left in your wallet! 

Good luck and happy trails! Thanks for listening.


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## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

I recently bought a giant rincon and ive seen in the reviews that the fork is not very good. Can someone recommend me a good fork under $100 to upgrade the current one? (suntour xc60) sorry if its out of the subject


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

God, i need to show my old man these threads. He doesnt understand y i spend thousands of dollars on my bikes. He keeps telling a cheapo dept. store bike would do teh job or a low-end LBS bike. I ride my bikes hard and demand alot from them and my dad just doesnt understand. I keep telling him to come out on the trails with me with his 10 year old huffy and see how he likes it. I believe most people buy a dept. store bike because they don't understand what makes a good bike, which is understandable. Butthey realize it after they go and ride for some time. I work at a shop and we get dept bikes all the time and the main difference is the assembly quality. A good assembly job makes a world of difference. Most common problems i see is mis routed cables, lack of shifting adjustment, mis-aligned brake pads and poorly adjusted brakes, loose bolts, un-trued wheels, and the backwards front wheel. Hmm, so that seems like pretty much the whole bike. If yur demanding any sort of performance on a mtb trail, then dont get a dept bike.


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## brianthebiker (Nov 1, 2005)

kirrill said:


> I wrote all this because of 2 points I wanna make.
> 1. Just because you buy a bike in a Dept store, it doesn't mean you won't enjoy riding it, or it will break or won't give you a good deal of great service.
> 2. To appreciate an LBS-type bike, even an entry level, I think you just Have to ride something that comes off a Walmart Shelf, weighs 35 lbs and has a price tag of < $150


To quote someone we all know......"it's NOT about the bike."


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## Anarchy_Biker (Oct 9, 2005)

alexw. said:


> I have a trek 3700 now, and i was wishing to spend all of my money (im only 15) on a really good bike. I've gotten really into the sport and i think that i am not all that bad. My bike barely survives my rides, and i am not too eager to buy a cheap bike again...
> but of course i am no expert...any suggestions?


Hey man i'm 15 too and recently i got sponsored so right now ride a Giant NRS 3 and i came off a kona but i started riding on a crappy Dick's mongoose thing. Now that i look back on its kinda funny


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## Sudo (Oct 17, 2005)

easily the best part of a LBS is the service. my favriot LBS is cyclepath, a boutiqe bike shop in portland, OR. they have amazing service. they built up *two* three thousand dollar bikes for me, because the first one didn't fit. when i was unsure about the bike, they let me keep it over the weekend as long as i didn't take it on muddy trails. or break anything. i am now the proud owner of a 2005 titus moto-light with a roxk shox reba team and full XT and LX components.


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## mondaycurse (Nov 24, 2005)

Quite possibly the best thing about buying even the cheapest bike at the LBS is that most give you free tune-ups for a year. My friend recently needed someone at walmart(crap bike) to merely _adjust_ the brakes, but the store worker went off on trying to convince him that his bike was a piece of crap, and that he should buy another one of walmart's bikes. It was very ironic.


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## Slanter (Dec 20, 2005)

*Avoiding used department store bikes*

I went out searching for a used bike today - didn't find more than one or two for sale, and both appeared to be used department store bikes (one of which cost almost as much as a _new_ department store bike!). After hearing how easy it is to break these, it seems like they would be an even worse deal used than new.

Since I'm not all that familiar with bike makes and models, are there any obvious tip-offs to help tell which sort of bike I'm looking at? I came across one giveaway that I'm dealing with an inferior bike by trying to put my weight on the handlebars and compress the front fork. One Mongoose that I triead at K-mart for giggles had serious issues with sticktion, hanging halfway through its stroke, breaking loose, then going on further. A bike I saw today in a pawn shop had a front fork sprung so softly that I could almost bottom it out simply by pushing on the handlebars.

Any other tip-offs that even a complete newbie like me would be able to spot if looking at a used bike?


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## Full Mountain (Mar 30, 2005)

to me i look at the quality of the components...most dept. store bikes (at least Canadian Tires...I work for a contractor that assembles them) tend to have components that look like plastic, components that are not available other than on a new bike and aren't even at the LX level and have little or no markings on them

Brake arms on vee's tend to be plastic on the lower end stuff, with metal arms on the higher end stuff, brake lever bodies and blades are plastic

That said some of the higher end stuff has half way decient components on it, but the are essentially mass assembled, so there is little if any tuning done to the bikes before they are sent to the floor to be sold...i've had to send back a bike twice because the mechanic couldn't adjust them properly...so i finally did it myself

DMR


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## stormcrowe (May 16, 2005)

*Best advice I can give you!*

OK, I currently have a dept store bike, and to get it rideable in any serious way, I've had to dump time and money into it. I bought it used, and since have had to replace the bottom bracket, the brakes, the wheels..........I think you see where I'm going with this. Basically, the best advice I can give you is to go to your LBS and get an entry level Mountain Bike or road bike, however your bent may run in that direction. You will spend less money in the long run and get a bike that suits and fits you better as to your needs. Give you an example, www.hodsonsbay.com is the URL of the LBS here where I live. They currently have some Giant's at a pretty good price as well as Trek and Specialized. I strongly suggest you investigate either your local bike shop(LBS) or drop by the link to Hodson's Bay I posted here. That is the best advice I can give you!



Slanter said:


> I went out searching for a used bike today - didn't find more than one or two for sale, and both appeared to be used department store bikes (one of which cost almost as much as a _new_ department store bike!). After hearing how easy it is to break these, it seems like they would be an even worse deal used than new.
> 
> Since I'm not all that familiar with bike makes and models, are there any obvious tip-offs to help tell which sort of bike I'm looking at? I came across one giveaway that I'm dealing with an inferior bike by trying to put my weight on the handlebars and compress the front fork. One Mongoose that I triead at K-mart for giggles had serious issues with sticktion, hanging halfway through its stroke, breaking loose, then going on further. A bike I saw today in a pawn shop had a front fork sprung so softly that I could almost bottom it out simply by pushing on the handlebars.
> 
> Any other tip-offs that even a complete newbie like me would be able to spot if looking at a used bike?


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## ANdRewLIu6294 (Sep 16, 2005)

for me, i am never going to chance it with a dept. store bike again, i wrecked 5 before the age of 12, and when i was 12, i chanced it one more time, got a 24" Mongoose, it was steel and heavy as hell, but it was the most decent dept store bike i've ridde. sure, i shredded the rear derailleur going off a curb, but it was plastic, so i cant blame it. but nothing else broke, and im thankful for that. now, at 13, i own an upgraded Specialized Hardrock, and it was like night and day from the Mongoose to the Spec.

my friend had the 26" Mongoose, same version, larger frame for 26", and it ran fine, it stood up to him bombing down all the trails near us, until he ran into a hidden pipe in the grass bombing down this beginner downhill course at around 20mph, tacoed his wheel, and endoed and got a scrape on his face. yeah, a stronger rim wouldnt have tacoed, but it wouldnt stop him from endoing.

then, later, after i fixed his wheel, i was letting him ride my bike, and i was riding his, there was a switchback without a berm, and his tires lost grip, and i bailed. the bike flew off the cliff at the edge of the switchback, we both watched it fall, and when it landed, the frame was fine, the fork had a dent in it, and the rear derailleur literally EXPLODED, the plastic was in like 50 peices scattered around the bike.

needless to say, he's gonna get a bike from our LBS.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*things to look for*

There are several things to look for,or to avoid bikes that don't have these features
1- look for a threadless headset, where the stem clamps on the outside of the fork tube,instead of sliding down inside. This should be a minimum for offroad use, and eliminates most of the junk bikes right away.
2- Any reasonably strong fork will have a cast lower section, not straight tubes pinched down at the end, and the upper end will not look like it was welded up from conduit.
3- next learn to spot the difference in wheels, avoid chrome plated sheet metal wheels,look for double wall alloy wheels the rim will be thicker (not wider),even better if there are metal grommets where the spokes come out of the rim.
4-Look for a brand name 3 piece crankset (usually Shimano or Truvativ) one piece cranks with drive pins spot welded on can break and cause a serious crash.

Any bike with these 4 features will be pretty good to start with, and something worth having used. If you go to a Bike Shop and look at the lower priced bikes and work your way up the price range you'll start to see the differences. At the highest end of the price range you start to pay for extreme strength,or extreme light weight, often for some form of serious competition. If you become a little familiar with high end parts you might find a real deal on a used bike some day.


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## drunkle (Nov 11, 2005)

Dhorn33 said:


> I just spent the last 30 minutes reading all the posts on this thread and I think it is a great discussion with a lot of very valid points. My story is this....
> My first experience with a mountain bike was back in 1986 (I was 11) when my Dad tried to convince me that these new "mountain bikes" were cool and what I should have to putz around town on. I wanted no part of it and instead got a Torker 2 freestyle bike that I quickly grew bored of.
> The next summer I saved up my lawnmowing money and bought a brand new Diamond Back entry level mountain bike. At that time it probably cost almost what it would now - around $250. I rode the heck out of that bike - and sold it to a friend a couple years later. I then bought a used Diamond Back Topanga and this was a great bike too - but was just a little too big for me. On both of these bikes I upgraded components as they broke or wore out and put hundreds or thousands of miles on them cruising the trails around town and to get from A to B. Unfortunately, once I got my driver's license the bike did not get too many miles put on it.
> 
> ...


good stories.

the only huffy i've suffered was a 10 speed way back when. too young to even really ride it. then there was a raleigh bmx which was solid, heavy but solid. raleigh used to be a good company like schwinn. my elementary school days were spent dreaming of my older brother's friend's powerlite... ohhhhh

the cost of a new low end high quality bike is relatively small as has been repeatedly said. but buying used, scoring a great bike at the same price as a new dept store tank is just the best. obviously, it should be an appropriately sized frame, wear items such as bearings and drivetrain should be looked over and repaired... but in the end, you get a bike that light years ahead of dept store garbage. no matter if you're looking for a first bike or your 10th, used is the way to go. there's always some sunday rider with more money than sense. just takes patience... and a bit of serendipity. resale value alone on a used bike is going to be much more stable than on new. used bikes wont break your heart if stolen. used bikes can clean up and look sharp with some time and effort. hell, get it custom painted, you paid a fraction of the cost for it. spend the extra cash on top end components. whatever. used is the way to go.

yes, it can be hit and miss, yes, it's more work, yes, you have to be savvy. but well worth it.


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## Judd97 (Jun 6, 2005)

I've grown up with and outgrown four different department store bikes. The first two were from ages 5-10 and then the second two were from about 10-16. I first started trailriding with my third bike which, coincidentally, was also my first bike with gears (no suspension though). Then I foudn out that bikes had "shocks" and I wanted so badly to get a bike with suspension. So, my family takes me to Kmart and has me pick out the bike of my dreams. I picked out some Huffy with a big green Y Frame and front suspension. I rode that bike home and marvelled at how the suspension worked. This is when I started to really realize that I loved mountain biking. At the time I had no idea that a second tier of bikehood (LBS bikes) even existed. I rode that huffy on all the trails I knew of and it always seemed to hold up ok, of course, i was a tiny kid at 130-140 lbs. 

One day I remember riding it to the LBS (Gattos in Tarentum, for all of you W. PA mtbers), and looking at the suspension forks they had for sale. I really wanted to upgrade to a Rockshox Jett XC ($250!!!) so I started saving my money. Somewhere afterwards, they told me that I wouldn't be able to upgrade to a RS fork because my Huffy wouldn't accept it due to the non-standard manufacturing. This is where I decided to make the jump to that second tier. 

My LBS taught me all there was to know about real bikes and the more I learned the more I realized the differences. I settled on a 2001 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc priced at $1020. I saved my money up and had it by the summer of my sophomore year in high school. The difference was amazing. I'll never forget htose first rides on my real bike. 

Now I ride a 2002 Specialized Enduro which I absolutely adore. I've since put alot of time, money and blood into this hobby, and while I would NEVER ever go back to riding a Huffy bike (I hate to even rent them when I'm on vacation or something, but a ride is a ride), I will always be grateful that Huffy makes their bikes by nonstandard perimeters or I'd have never found this exciting world of LBS bikes. So.... thanks.... Huffy.


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## MuckSavage (Feb 6, 2006)

*Schwinn SX-2000 from Target*

Maybe I'm too late here, but I'm looking at 40, probably carrying an extra 30 pounds so I figured I'd hit the trails on a new bike. I was in Target & came upon this
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.htm...638481-4654503?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B000A8RF32
It looked well built, had decent components. I remember back to the mid 80's when Schwinn's were sold only at LBS. I thought it was odd that here was a Schwinn in Target. I bought the bike, took it home & did some adjustments. It's not bad, I'm having some fun. Any input from anyone as to how this compares to other Dept Store Bikes? Also, I bought a Bell helmet while I was there ($25) What gives here? Should I upgrade that as I get a little more daring? Thanks for any input!


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## stormcrowe (May 16, 2005)

Muck


MuckSavage said:


> Maybe I'm too late here, but I'm looking at 40, probably carrying an extra 30 pounds so I figured I'd hit the trails on a new bike. I was in Target & came upon this
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.htm...638481-4654503?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B000A8RF32
> It looked well built, had decent components. I remember back to the mid 80's when Schwinn's were sold only at LBS. I thought it was odd that here was a Schwinn in Target. I bought the bike, took it home & did some adjustments. It's not bad, I'm having some fun. Any input from anyone as to how this compares to other Dept Store Bikes? Also, I bought a Bell helmet while I was there ($25) What gives here? Should I upgrade that as I get a little more daring? Thanks for any input!


Savage, at least you're riding! You have the Schwinn, so ride the tar out of it! As to the helmet? I'd upgrade that! Go to your LBS and get a decent one! Your head is to important to your quality of life to skimp on a helmet!When you wear out the schwinn, get a better bike! The Schwinn isn't a bad bike, but when you get on a better one you'll understand the difference! Lighter, strong and fast! Basically, choose any two of the three choices here, CHEAP, STRONG, LIGHT! Best word I can give ya! Rather than spending $$ upgrading that Schwinn, though, save the upgrade $$ towards a Banshee, or Specialized or something like that! Meantime, get out and RIDE!


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## stormcrowe (May 16, 2005)

MuckSavage said:


> Maybe I'm too late here, but I'm looking at 40, probably carrying an extra 30 pounds so I figured I'd hit the trails on a new bike. I was in Target & came upon this
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.htm...638481-4654503?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B000A8RF32
> It looked well built, had decent components. I remember back to the mid 80's when Schwinn's were sold only at LBS. I thought it was odd that here was a Schwinn in Target. I bought the bike, took it home & did some adjustments. It's not bad, I'm having some fun. Any input from anyone as to how this compares to other Dept Store Bikes? Also, I bought a Bell helmet while I was there ($25) What gives here? Should I upgrade that as I get a little more daring? Thanks for any input!


By the way! You ain't too late! Follow some of my posts over in Clydesdales or visit my blogs! I'm 46 and have dropped 325 pounds in the last year and went from a wheelchair to a mountainbike!


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## SS-Rider (Feb 27, 2006)

Speedub.Nate said:


> I've always considered Consumer Reports is a very trustworthy resource, but their reviews & articles at times leave something to be desired. I think sometimes they rely on their respected ratings matrix to make up for less-than thorough write-ups.
> 
> A good site to supplement the CR link is "Bikes R Not Toys" at...
> 
> www.BikesRNotToys.com


 they suck they didn a article on SUV rollorver's & didn't tell anyone thay added 400 pound's of test EQ in the passagner seat!!!


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## tg3895 (Mar 7, 2006)

stormcrowe said:


> By the way! You ain't too late! Follow some of my posts over in Clydesdales or visit my blogs! I'm 46 and have dropped 325 pounds in the last year and went from a wheelchair to a mountainbike!


That's incredible!! Keep up the great work!


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## massmang (Apr 18, 2006)

I have a schwinn S60DSX that I bought from Target for $250. I bought it because I love to mountainbike, but I can't afford to buy a good bike, (atleast not all at once) . I decided to buy this bike, and upgrade it because it's all aluminum, it is the perfect size for me acording to size charts, and it is very comfortable. it had fron, and rear disc mounts . looks cool etc.. 

I have so far put Avid disc brakes on it, and I just picked up sram x.9 shifters, and derailleur, and avid speed dial brake levers. and shimano XT front, and rear disc hubs with Sun Rhyno Lite Rims
.. next I will buy the cranks.. race face evolve XCs and sram cassette...

after that I plan on upgrading the suspension.. cane creek cloud 9 rear shock, then fox vanila front fork...

I never stripped down the frame to weigh it but I am sure it is on the heavy side.. which is fine because I ride to stay in shape, as well as have fun.... I also figured if once I get all the parts if I am not happy with the frame all I will need is a frame, and probably rear shock... 

Is this a bad idea??? (puts on fire proof suit)


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## nuberider (Dec 20, 2005)

with all that money you have spent you could have bought a real bike....


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## massmang (Apr 18, 2006)

nuberider said:


> with all that money you have spent you could have bought a real bike....


$650???? I am not sure how good of a bike I could buy with that...

I have looked at plenty of bikes that cost over $2500 and some come with shimano LX deore parts, crappy forks, and or rear shocks.. a lot of parts that I hear bad things about... once I have all the stuff I want I will have spent under $2000

this way I can ride while I buy the exact parts I want.. right now the bike weighs 36.8lbs..
the parts that are real heavy are the rear shock, with the 850lb spring, and the front forks, .. once I put on the race face cranks, the casette, rear wheel, new forks, and shocks it will probably be well under 30 lbs... I trimmed 1.5lbs just from changing the front wheel, and hub...


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## PittsburghRider (Apr 10, 2006)

*Check out my link...*

My brother bought a big box mart bike and I bought a Cannondale. There was a huge difference between the two bikes and mine was 10x better, and I paid 2x as much as his bike. In the end, when he was done upgrading his bike, he spent 2x the amount of money as I did, and my bike still kicked his bike's a$$. Check out the link below, it is pretty good. and so is this one: http://www.jibjab.com/JokeBox/JokeBox_JJOrig.aspx?movieid=122


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## massmang (Apr 18, 2006)

PittsburghRider said:


> My brother bought a big box mart bike and I bought a Cannondale. There was a huge difference between the two bikes and mine was 10x better, and I paid 2x as much as his bike. In the end, when he was done upgrading his bike, he spent 2x the amount of money as I did, and my bike still kicked his bike's a$$. Check out the link below, it is pretty good. and so is this one: http://www.jibjab.com/JokeBox/JokeBox_JJOrig.aspx?movieid=122


Which Cannondale do you have, and how much did it cost? which bike did your bro get? what upgrades did he get?

Also you say your bike kicks his bikes ass.... What is is better at?

I am not doubting you, I am just curious as to what is so much better...


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## PittsburghRider (Apr 10, 2006)

*Bikes*

My Cannondale was a custom built bike that the shop made and I picked it up for $699 on sale when they were selling it for $749. It has Shimano LX parts and is a very light bike made for XC riding. My brother bought a Schwinn model for $600ish and it weighed at least five more pounds than my bike. The first thing he replaced was the front shock, then the brakes, the seat, the grips, tires, and eventually the frame with a Specialized Rockhopper Pro (eBay has great deals for parts). Hope this helps.


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## massmang (Apr 18, 2006)

PittsburghRider said:


> My Cannondale was a custom built bike that the shop made and I picked it up for $699 on sale when they were selling it for $749. It has Shimano LX parts and is a very light bike made for XC riding. My brother bought a Schwinn model for $600ish and it weighed at least five more pounds than my bike. The first thing he replaced was the front shock, then the brakes, the seat, the grips, tires, and eventually the frame with a Specialized Rockhopper Pro (eBay has great deals for parts). Hope this helps.


Thanks....

I hear about all these great deals on eBay but I can never find them..... I must be missing something.. I always look at the buy now price... maybe I should be bidding on things....


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## bstguitarist (Jul 4, 2004)

abt $650 would be something liek the Giant Iguana, Marzochi fork, HT disk brakes, etc great bike. Their out there just gotta find em.


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## DarkPhoenixTSi (May 1, 2006)

Picked up a Mongoose Exile recently at Sports Authority. I have always had Mongooses (or is that Mongeese) and I have never had a complaint. I have always purchase my bikes from an LBS, but with things being so expensive here on Long Island, even the LBS was priced out of my spending range, (or at least, that is what the wife says) I was able to at least steer her away from buying that $75 Magna at WallyMart. 

Any thoughts on the Exile (incline)? It's a FS Bike, and it weighs in at about 29 lbs. It has SRAM 3.0 drivetrain, and a few other goodies. It's a nice bike, and Sports Authority was pretty knowledgable when it came to bikes. I will be trading up as soon as funds become available, but I don't plan on doing any serious trail riding as of yet, since I have been out of it for well over 10 years. You know what they say, it's like riding a bike...


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*enjoy the ride...*



DarkPhoenixTSi said:


> Any thoughts on the Exile (incline)? It's a FS Bike, and it weighs in at about 29 lbs. It has SRAM 3.0 drive train, and a few other goodies. It's a nice bike, and Sports Authority was pretty knowledgeable when it came to bikes. I will be trading up as soon as funds become available, but I don't plan on doing any serious trail riding as of yet, since I have been out of it for well over 10 years. You know what they say, it's like riding a bike...


It's the lowest cost FS bike you could possibly buy; it's not designed to go off road, or path. The fork/shock cannot be adjusted.

Simply put, if you do want to ride trails, the least cost for a decent FS performer is $1000 or more.

Ride it and have fun, but remember, you get what you pay for and yours is 20% of the cost of a good starter FS ride that can handle trails.

I would refer you back to the very first part of this post when C-R tested Mongoose, amongst others.

Jim


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## Phantom44 (May 9, 2006)

*Good versus Evil*

I no longer ride this bike because i have a much better bike now and didn't know any better when I bought it. But here is the situation. I bought the low end Trek Y-26 full-suspension bike, my brother bought it's evil twin from Wal-mart the Mongoose xr-100 or something also a low end full-suspension bike. Mine was like 400 his was 160. these bikes looked identical or damn close but his bike weighed 15 to 18 pounds more. The rear shock on his bike had to be so tight just to keep him from bottoming out that the whole assembly broke within three days of very non-aggressive smooth trail riding. although, my Y-26 sucked as well but at least not when it came to components breaking. my bike rode and felt ten times better than his.Handling was superior. everything was. Ya get what you pay for. I saved my money like a good boy,kept the Y-26 for a beater, and bought myself a moderate priced decent xc bike. Fisher Tassajara disc. Not only did I get a much better quality frame, I got even better components on this bike than the Y-26. My riding skills improved over-night from this purchase as did my ego while I was on the trail,therefore making it easier for me to learn and learn and learn...which it what I'm still doing today.If you go RVing....and you will ride a bike three times a year on smooth trails while vacationing..then get you a Wal-banger for $160 but if you want to ride alot without risk of injury from part failure, poor quality... become a better rider and have fun doing it because your bike feels good and works good go to your LBS and let them hook you up with something that will fit you and make you happy in the long run.


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## lifeinthefastlane (May 13, 2006)

A little while ago I bought a pacific bike for about $100 at a department store. It worked fine on the road I put on at least 125+ miles. then after a while the components started to go to hell, so I bought a trek for $300 at an LBS. I ride trails with it, road too. plus I got a year of free tune ups when I bought it. The point is, if you want a bike to ride on the road that will last no more than a year (with many tune-ups) go ahead and get a department store bike. If you have any interest in any kind of off road bike or one that will last, go to your LBS.


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

A couple years ago, i got an MGX Mongoose. It looked awesome at the time because it's FS, and i thought it was the best bike ever. I rode it around A LOT, but only rode, never offroad, never hopped curbs or anything. It was fine mechanically, but heavy. I got tired of riding it later however, since it wouldn't shift at all, and doing wheelies and bunny hops was impossible.
Then, I got my Hardrock last year. I know it's not the best bike in the world, but it sure felt like it compared to the Mongoose. However, the brakes squeak, the derailleur got smashed, the disc brakes don't stop very hard, and the cranks were replaced recently, and the BB has started to clunk and click again. I think the Marzocchi shock has blown out. It sags a lot. It seems that something or other is always breaking, and the costs are starting to add up quickly. However, I love this thing more than ever, especially since i've ridden many miles on it, jumped curbs, ledges, learned to bunny hop, wheelie, and it's gone through way more stuff than the MGX ever will.
Bottom line: Get a bike through your LBS. Even with all the stuff that's gone wrong on the HR, i love it and wouldn't give it up for anything (except a P2. Hehe).


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## laotsu42 (Jan 5, 2004)

i heard from one of the reps that department store bikes are approved by toy saftey standards and lbs bikes are approved buy department of transportation standards ...


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## [email protected] (Jun 3, 2006)

I just bought a "Novara Float". It has a "Manitou Trace Comp" fork and "Manitou Metal R" rear suspension. I went to the Manitou web site to check on these componets and found that Manitou doesn't even list them. Evidently they are so low on the food chain that they don't rate space on the web site. I haven't tried to look up the other componets on the bike. I paid $900, and thought I was getting a good bike. Should I take it back, and start over?


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## massmang (Apr 18, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I just bought a "Novara Float". It has a "Manitou Trace Comp" fork and "Manitou Metal R" rear suspension. I went to the Manitou web site to check on these componets and found that Manitou doesn't even list them. Evidently they are so low on the food chain that they don't rate space on the web site. I haven't tried to look up the other componets on the bike. I paid $900, and thought I was getting a good bike. Should I take it back, and start over?


This should help you... They are the same as the manitou Axel fork made with aluminum lower casting instead of magnesium.

read post # 2

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=194546


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*let me add a bit*

the Novara, as I understand it, it a fairly good bike. The price is kept down a bit by using OEM parts. The fork, as Massmang says, is probably OEM, that is, built to the specifications of the store (REI?); it may not be the same as aftermarket forks.

from the net....

O-E-M
(pronounced as separate letters) Short for original equipment manufacturer, which is a misleading term for a company that has a special relationship with computer producers. OEMs are manufacturers who resell another company's product under their own name and branding. While an OEM is similar to a VAR (value-added reseller), it refers specifically to the act of a company rebranding a product to its own name and offering its own warranty, support and licensing of the product. The term is really a misnomer because OEMs are not the original manufacturers; they are the customizers.


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## redmtnex (Jun 7, 2006)

The dept store bikes are great if you just want to say "I have a bike". The reality is the person that buys such a bike is really trying to spend very little money on something they may only ride a few times in a few years. I do not mean to imply all dept bikes are bad, but the difference between a $200 new bike and a good $200 used bike is like night and day. My first bike was a huffy, built to take what a kid can dish out and thats alot. My second bike was a KHS Montana, a $300 MTB that was ok. My next bike was a rockhopper comp for around $550 new, a much better trail bike that really out climb the khs.
So I have been off the bike for about 14 years and decided to get back into it for my health. I oiled up my rockhopper hardtail with ridged forks and realized at 51 I really would like some shocks. So I bought a Gary Fisher 2002 Wahoo with front shocks for $160. Ya the rockhopper was nice in its day but the wahoo kicks a##. A great used bike for little money! 
So moral to the story is some folks just have to have new thinking its better than a way much better used bike for what they would spend on that new dept store junk.
Ok, send some flames.:madmax:


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## cratz2 (Jun 6, 2006)

I guess I'm fortunate that I'm 33 and while I've probably owned 10 bikes in my life, I have never suffered with a dept store bike of my own, but I've maintained them for other people. My ex wife has a $69 FS Walmart Kent bike which I just did a little bit of work to and it runs fine. I will admit that I'm the type that as soon as the bike gets home, I go through everything making sure everything are properly tightened (and that includes making sure some aren't overtightened) and everything is reasonably adjusted. 

If you are unsure about Walmarts ability to assemble bikes, next time you are there, have a look them. Without even pulling any levers, just look at the front brakes. Are they at all centered? Lift the bike up by the bars and spin the front wheel. Do three of the same models spin as freely as the others? I'd say there's about a 2% chance that who ever built it, built it with ANY quality in mind.

On the other hand, in the last couple months, I've 4 different used bikes (a Giant, a Nishiki and two Specializeds) for less than $75 each to resell. I don't need to tell you if I'd recommend a brand new $69 Kent or a slightly used but perfect condition Giant Iguana for $75.


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## terahz (Jun 6, 2006)

Hello,

Does "dept store bikes" refer to brands of bikes or to the way the bikes are put together?

I've heard schwinn can be found at the *marts but our LBS is an exlusive Schwinn dealer. 

Thanks


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## Call_me_Clyde (Oct 27, 2004)

*Tricky question*



terahz said:


> Hello,
> 
> Does "dept store bikes" refer to brands of bikes or to the way the bikes are put together?
> 
> ...


It denotes bikes that are sold to the *marts of the world. In this instance, the answer is tricky, as Schwinn has a department store line, and an LBS line. Mongoose and a few other manufacturers do the same. My guess would be that if the LBS is selling a Schwinn, it's the better line of Schwinn bikes, not the department store line.

Bob


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## massmang (Apr 18, 2006)

cratz2 said:


> On the other hand, in the last couple months, I've 4 different used bikes (a Giant, a Nishiki and two Specializeds) for less than $75 each to resell. I don't need to tell you if I'd recommend a brand new $69 Kent or a slightly used but perfect condition Giant Iguana for $75.


WHere the hell do people find all these deals?????

I never see bikes that cheap..


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## redmtnex (Jun 7, 2006)

I am going to be selling my Gary Fisher 2002 Wahoo for 180. When looking for a bike check out the reviews here. But remember that many of the reviews are from gonzo riders that do things with bikes that most of us normal riders would never attempt. So sometimes the review can be negative because the bike could not take three foot vertical drops with out blowing out the shocks. I bought the GF Wahoo 2002 because it did have great reviews. Only selling it because I bought another full suspension bike and do no longer need the fisher.


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## cratz2 (Jun 6, 2006)

massmang said:


> WHere the hell do people find all these deals?????
> 
> I never see bikes that cheap..


eBay, baby! Though I know how to maintain and adjust bikes (I know NOTHING about suspensions thouh), I am lucky enough to have a local guy that was a professional bike tech and I've bought two bikes from him via eBay. The Giant was in absolute PERFECT condition and a Nishiki that needed new tires. $75 each and zero problems.

Also xxxx.craigslist.org. Very nice deals out there if you are patient. Of course, right now is the time to sell, not to buy. At least in this part of the country.

My firstroad bike was a second hand semi custom jobbie back in about 1987. I got it through an add in the paper for, I think, $60. We took it to a shop to be tuned and had new tires put on and that bike served me very well until 1991 and I put a LOT of hours on that thing. Again, not to knock the dept store bikes, but for about the same money as the cheapest dept store, I got a very nice bike that lasted 4 years and was still just about perfect when I sold it... for a profit.

That is my point, I guess. Sure you can get a dept store bike for under $100. Or you can get an entry level LBS bike for $300-$350. But with any patience at all, you should be able to get a 2 or 3 year old LBS bike for around $100... and maybe one that isn't exactly entry level.


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## burtronix (Jun 5, 2006)

bstguitarist said:


> But wouldnt you rather have a department store bike than nothing at all? If I didnt get it I probably never would have gotten into mountain biking.


Another option you could check is getting a used bike. There are bound to be people in your area who started out with a $300 bike & are upgrading from there. They might be selling in the $100 range. You could check your local papers & eBay. :thumbsup:

Burt


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## cratz2 (Jun 6, 2006)

eBay and local papers have long worked for me... Another option might be craigslist.org It's: 

yourcity.craigslist.org

Indianapolis.craigslist.org or Atlanta.craigslist.org for example. I have better luck selling there than buying though. Seems like a lot of craigslist users aren't familiar with eBay.


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## Australia (May 14, 2005)

Despite what some purists will say, when buying your first bike you cannot go wrong with Giant, Specialized and Trek, simply put: none of their products are bad.


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## MTBgreatfalls (Jun 12, 2006)

Here's my take on the deal. alot of people here bash the " Department store bikes" and thats fine, I am sure alot of Ferrari owners bash Honda civics. Reality is not everyone can afford to buy the high end bikes as we all know. I bought a Mongoose Blackcomb from walmart. It was $280 if I remember right. I wa slooking at bikes at the LBS and walmart and reality is I am leaving in January for bootcamp, but I wanted a bike to ride to get in shape and have some fun exploring the sport of mountain biking, but being that I'm leaving in 6 months I wanted a bike that was good but I could be okay with getting rid of. I have test rode a few specialized bikes and 1 trek bike at the LBS and I know there is a deffinate diffrence in thoose and my mongoose and now that I know I thuroghly enjoy the sport I will be investing in a top notch bike once I am stationed. I've heard soo many of theese stories on the board about how shitty the Department store bike is that it scared me into taking my bike into my LBS for a check up and I talked with the guy for a while about the bike. He basicaly told me that for a department store bike, the bike I have has decent components on it, he was suprised, he did a once over to ensure it was put together right and everything was snug, adjusted the disc brakes for me and charged me very little. his main gripe was the weight of the bike. and at 36 lbs it is a heffer for an aluminum framed bike. I will say that I am enjoying learning about the bikes components and adjustments and such. the bike is serving its purpose of teaching me the fundementals of the sport and servicing the bikes and what compinents do what. if the bike does break I'll be okay with that, the whole idea is that this is a learning process for me. you dont need a Ferrari to enjoy driving, and you dont need a high end bike to enjoy the sport of mountain biking. but once you get into it you would deffinatly want to upgrade the equipment. thats my humble oppinion.


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## Eric Hoefer (Jan 19, 2004)

I just bought a bike at a Dept store, except it was EMS and it was an Ironhorse and it cost alot more than $100-$200


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## AusMTB Orienteer (Jun 30, 2006)

I started life many moons ago on a dept store bike. thing was a clunker but still ridable for the short distances I rode it. I took up the fine sport of bike courier for a while (fun with cops chasing you) saved and bought a gary fisher hookooekoo, this was in 91. I rode the hell out of it, then rode it occasionally when I had the time. it was starting to show its age so I bought a low end mtb.
ohhh what a pain, it was aluminium and a brick. the bearings in the bb lasted 3 weeks. took them to the lbs and he informed me that they weren't just broken, they had been smashed, he had never seen anything like it b4. still rode it, saved and bought a full suss but the lbs was s**t and sold me a dh bike for street and some trail riding. you can imagine how much fun that was. then I discovered the sport of MTB orienteering and saved my pennies found a good LBS who sold me a fisher hookooekoo 06 which was mad until some one stole it two months ago. I bought a specialized fsr xc pro but have discovered that it is a little fragile for my riding style. went to the store i bough the fisher from. he listened to my story, had a discussion with his manager and offered me a cake 2 dlx for 3550, down for 4k and on a 10 percent deposit on lay by (australian dollars) based on knowing my riding needs already and being a former customer he could do me a good deal. upshot I am know paying of said steed and am more than happy as the lbs also offers a free class on bike maintenance to show some tricks of the trade for looking after said machine. they were so good infact that i went back and bought my g/f a better bike (treck 4300) which impressed her after riding learsport (aussie brand of low end bike) said sale reps comment of the learsport, better of using it as a boat anchor than a bike. 
this sort of service just wouldn't happen in a department store. LBS offer more than a department store than just the product itself. they offer advice and expert knowledge which is free to use, support and usually a good knowledge of the best areas to ride in the local area for all levels (and here in sydney most run training group rides two mornings a week for all levels riding around streets and trails for fitness and to meet other riders.)


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## volunteerfirefighter (Jul 23, 2006)

*Roadmaster Bike*

Hello,

I bought myself a roadmaster bike 5 years ago and as you can see the picture it looked like it was bought just yesturday. But it wasn't I bought it 5 years ago and it's still looking great. I bought it for $60.00 and still going strong. I only had to take it back to Wal-Mart just one time since I had it and it was this past month it was there. Yes, I bought it at Wal-Mart believe it or not. They had to fix the gears but surprisingly they gave me new breaks, break lines, new gears, new shifter, plus put air in my tires. My dad told them how old it was but yet the guy fix the bike up for free, yes free. I guess they thought my dad was lying of how old it was and they thought it was only 1 year old so that made them even more think that it was under warrenty. There is very little rust on that bike and the chain is not even rusted (the trick is use vegetable oil on the chain).

In fact even today when I bring out my bike to wash it and wax it and even ride it my neighbors are always asking me if my bike is for sale and I tell them no and it will never be on sale.

but now today I am thinking about changing tires since I haven't change them ever.

But in the next five years i am thinking about buying a bike then because my roadmaster bike might be rusting from the inside out and I can risk riding it w/o knowing when it will break.


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## stormcrowe (May 16, 2005)

volunteerfirefighter said:


> Hello,
> 
> I bought myself a roadmaster bike 5 years ago and as you can see the picture it looked like it was bought just yesturday. But it wasn't I bought it 5 years ago and it's still looking great. I bought it for $60.00 and still going strong. I only had to take it back to Wal-Mart just one time since I had it and it was this past month it was there. Yes, I bought it at Wal-Mart believe it or not. They had to fix the gears but surprisingly they gave me new breaks, break lines, new gears, new shifter, plus put air in my tires. My dad told them how old it was but yet the guy fix the bike up for free, yes free. I guess they thought my dad was lying of how old it was and they thought it was only 1 year old so that made them even more think that it was under warrenty. There is very little rust on that bike and the chain is not even rusted (the trick is use vegetable oil on the chain).
> 
> ...


Actually, the guys that are really down om the X-Mart bikes are the ones that do some fairly hard riding! The conditions they ride under are probably going to trash something like a Roadmaster or Huffy or Royce Union. Truth be told, I use a Royce Union MTB (Hardtail and rigid fork) as a commuter, and it's done very well for me. I've ridden it in Cross Country events and singletracked in the Hoosier Natl Forest with it, and it's held up very well! I bought it used and it's about 10 years old. I've done fully loaded touring with it, unsupprted carrying 30 pounds of gear in front and rear panniers, and have actually been quite surprised with how well it's stood up to me! I started riding again last year and at the time weighed 450 pounds (I'm now at 232, by the way!) and on the one year anniversary of my bariatric surgery, I did the unsyupported tour on it. While it was only a weekender, the ride was a load test for a planned tour as well as a learning experience in planning an unsupported ride. I wouldn't sweat it if you are still riding an X-Mart bike, if you enjoy riding it and it serves your purpose, it's all good! When you can upgrade to a nicer bike, then yeah, go for it! Until then, enjoy the riding and don't sweat what others think!


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

You know, these Dept Store bikes realy anoy me. My neibour/best friend has a Next. and I swear, after EVERY ride I have to fix SOMETHING. And all my Gary Fisher _Wahoo_ needs is MAYBE a slightly adjusted derailur after every, oh, i dont know........... 25 miles of moderate freeriding. Once, her fork actualy CAME OFF, wheelset and all. turned out that the allen screw had SNAPPED.

Anyways, I'm looking for a new rig for her as we speak.


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## Kingflys (Aug 8, 2006)

Well I just bought my first mountain bike 3 weeks ago and I guess you can say its a "dept store" bike. I bought a DiamondBack Outlook.

Anyways...I've gone out riding a lot over the past 3 weeks....gone on some rough terrain and a few small lil hops and bumps here and there...

Last night I flipped my bike over to install a computer....I spun my tires and noticed that both look like they don't spin right. I'm not sure if its the inner tube or maybe the rim is bent? funny thing is both kinda look just a little whack when i spin...

any thoughts on what it could be?

Could it be the "dept bike" syndrome?


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

low cost wheels don't stay true long. you can put a screwdriver close to the brake surface of the rim and see how far it varies. Should be less than 2mm, ideally 1mm or less. good luck


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## stormcrowe (May 16, 2005)

Kingflys said:


> Well I just bought my first mountain bike 3 weeks ago and I guess you can say its a "dept store" bike. I bought a DiamondBack Outlook.
> 
> Anyways...I've gone out riding a lot over the past 3 weeks....gone on some rough terrain and a few small lil hops and bumps here and there...
> 
> ...


Take it to the bike shop and get the wheels trued. Factory wheels are often slightly out of round, especially with a dept store bike. With a factory build, you often have slight irregularities and the wheel that get taken care of for example, if you buy from the LBS before you ever even see the bike.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

www.forgebikes.com
Now everybody can afford a good mountain bike, if they want too.
sawback 5xx


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## fromthecoast (Aug 22, 2006)

I bought a Mongoose and very shortly thereafter went and bought a Gary Fisher Tassajara. The difference was amazing. Even though the Tass is not top o' the line it is full of good mid grade components. Luckily I sold the Mongoose to a friend so I didn't lose out too much on the dept store bike. I love my Tass and there is no way I could ride anything less again.


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## HotblackDesiato (Aug 17, 2006)

Gotta echo the suggestions for craigslist. I got a nice Gary Fisher Aquila that I will probably need to upgrade next year but three times the bike than what I would spend at a department store.


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## fromthecoast (Aug 22, 2006)

To further elaborate on my point, I ran into some guys today at the local trail who just started riding. Guess what they were on? Both were riding Mongoose bikes. One was a hardtail and the other was a FS with a front disk brake. They said that they both got their bikes from WalMart because they were only comfortable dropping around $200 or less until they were sure this is something that they would do for a while. They said that if they were to continue riding they would be looking for something in the $600 range. This is one way people get into new sports. I did the exact same thing. They did admit to having some problems with the bike due to poor assembly but they had done the adjustments themselves. Not everyone can afford to drop 2k on a bike if they aren't sure they will stay with the sport. Most people who do stay with the sport will want to upgrade to a name brand bike and will likely do so. 

Speaking of deals, I ran into a group of people at my local trail about a year and a half ago. One kid (16-18) was riding the trek full suspension time trial mountain bike with the carbon frame. I'm not sure but I think that bike was at least 3 grand. He picked it up from a local pawn shop for $200, because the guy who ran the place thought it was made of plastic. I would have loved to have known about that because I would have one sweet @ss ride right now.


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## sovietspyguy (Dec 4, 2005)

dukeblaster said:


> flat out a dept store bike won't last more than a year, even if riding on roads. If you are at all heavy (over 180) and ride 4-5 times a week, spend at least 300 dollars. Its worth it in the long run. Best beginner bike out there in my opion would be a specialized hardrock (300ish). Heavier but strong too and the frames geometry is pretty nice (it resemebles my P2 fairly closely). My girlfriend has one and i've ridden it around alittle and it hops great and is forgiving on the trail (poor hill climber though). if you want more of X-C bike there are some low end fishers like the marlin that is fairly decent. I'd stay away from dept store bikes all togather (also you cannot usually get service like a bike shop).
> 
> PS do not get a low end dual suspension waste of time and money (you havta spend 1000 plus for a decent one), and stay away from mongoose and schwinn (schwinn's older bmx's are alright though)


I definitely second the hardrock suggestion. After I went to live at college in atlanta, there weren't many trails around and I found that my $2K Klein was very ill-suited for anything concrete (as is any XC bike). So I stole my mom's hardrock and have been using it up until this week when I am getting my new one together. The hardrock is pretty damn strong, the wheels are strong (bit heavy but can't have everything), everything has lasted fine other than a crank that keeps loosening (my fault, should have checked the bolt before it got loose and partially rounded the square crank) and a BB that's going bad (happens with expensive bikes too). With a few minor upgrades the hardrock would be a very capable bike.


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## MTBgreatfalls (Jun 12, 2006)

I guess I can add to this. I bought a Mongoose Blackcomb from Wal Mart, for $280. I immediatly took it to my LBS after reading some of theese posts to have them check it out and tune it up. I've rode the bike alot, and not all on pavement, though I've ridden my share around town. I have had a shifting problem, wich was solved by 6 buck for SIS cable housing and an adjustment. I've upgraded the rear shock, to a Rock Shox rear shock for $100 bucks ( and yes I got a great deal on that I think). I've also upgraded front and rear derailurs since it came with Atlus derailurs. I( changed front and rear derailurs to Deore and maybe spent 100 bucks there installed and all. other than that I've done small stuff, new stem, grips and stuff. Reality is I could not toutch a Full suspension bike with disc brakes for the price I've paid. another thing is that in January I'm leaving for the Navy, so now that i know I love to Mountain Bike I'll be able to buy a high end bike when I'm stationed. I think that alot of people here tend to be to hard on thoose of us who've purchased an ecconomy bicycle, might not be a Ferrari, but a Honda still gets us out to ride.


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## Kingflys (Aug 8, 2006)

thanks guys for the tips....I'm currently saving up for my first "real bike" 

Santa Cruz Heckler


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## rfd425 (Sep 10, 2006)

fromthecoast said:


> One kid (16-18) was riding the trek full suspension time trial mountain bike with the carbon frame. I'm not sure but I think that bike was at least 3 grand. He picked it up from a local pawn shop for $200, because the guy who ran the place thought it was made of plastic.


More likely, the guy who ran the place knew it was stolen, since the guy who brought it in was willing to take less than $200 for it (pawn shops sell bikes for more than what they paid for them). The shop owner was probably glad to get it the hell out of there before the police came and took it.


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## new_mtb'er (Oct 2, 2006)

ok. i figured this. i should start saving up some money, make sure i get a bike that is a bit more updated and durable bike. 
there is a shop near here, and they sell good k2 and redline bikes. would those be good bikes? i've figured i would be doing a mix of xc and down hill mountain biking.


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## sacto (Aug 30, 2006)

*yard sales, craigslist, pawn shops*

There are pleny of places to shop for a good quality bike (that could even be the right size) other than department stores.

I bought my Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo at a pawn shop. Sure I had to look around for few weeks, but these sell on ebay for twice the price I paid, and the bike is in great shape.

Few years ago there was a clearance at a closing KMART. I bought a cheapo Huffy for $29 since my nice Diamondback was stolen and I didn't feel like spending that sort of $$$ again. Yet the Huffy was junk. Last month (5 years later) I sold the Huffy on craigslist for $25, then found a Bianchi Ocelot from the same place for $20!

I missed this one (because the bike was too bike for me) but my neighbor had a yard sale about two months ago. One of my other neighbors put a GT MTB in the yard, blue/yellow with the triple triangle design. Asking $80, would take $50, finally got down to $25... but no, I didn't buy it (but I should have). Deals are out there.

I had to sift through the junk at some pawn shops and other places, but patience paid off!


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## TheBlatt (Sep 12, 2006)

Back in May of this year, I decided I was going to try my hand at Mountain Biking...I had spent many years hiking and camping and figured mountain biking would be just as fun. And it is. But I had no bike. 

In comes the 'dreaded' department store bike I bought for $79. I worked great with only minor adjustments and my fitness level really increased. I took it on paved trails for the first couple weeks then I graduated to where I was riding my local (a moderate 7.5 mile loop) a couple times a week. Then I started travelling all over the state in search of better MTB trails.

Now, if I had never purchased that "crap" bike, I wouldn't have found what has become one of my favorite activities. 

I'm currently looking for a new bike, now that I am much more educated about what MY needs are and what kind of bike fits. I went to 4 local bike shops and was treated like I was an outsider. They all talked down to me, like I was an idiot. Granted, I'm not the most knowledgable about bikes, but it was insulting the way I was treated. Since I was on a budget of $350, I wasn't considered a priority. They kept trying to get my to up my budget and sell me things I knew that I didn't need or want. 

If I wanted to be treated like that I'd go hang out at a car dealership.

I went into an REI, and was approached by a courteous guy the same age as me (23) and asked if I needed any help, I told him what I was looking for and what my budget was and he found me a bike on clearance and offered to have it tuned up before I purchased it. It had what I needed for what I wanted to pay. 

The so-called 'service' of the hallowed LBS must only apply when you wave $1,000 in their face. 

I sometimes get the same feeling here, that I encountered at the LBS's that I visited...You aren't worth anything unless you have an expensive bike. I have just as much fun on my 'crappy' bikes that I'm sure most of you have on yours.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

deleted


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

TheBlatt said:


> I'm currently looking for a new bike, now that I am much more educated about what MY needs are and what kind of bike fits. I went to 4 local bike shops and was treated like I was an outsider.


I've run into this, perhaps in not so bad a way as you, but I've encountered the same sort of thing, and not just w/bikes. I cross-country ski, and I like to bike. But I don't "look" the part of either sport. The problem I most frequently encounter is that store owners (and their salespeople) pigeonhole me when I walk in the door, and don't take me seriously. It's almost as if they decide beforehand sometimes what sort of bike I need, or what sort of skis I need. I've learned the hard way that I have to be a bit forceful in going after what I want.

What slays me about all this is that the stores leave money on the table. They don't need to upsell me on things in the sense that they convince me to buy what I don't want. But if they only had taken more time to educate me, to talk to me about their products and how they work, they'd surely have sold me more than they have over the years.

You wouldn't believe some of the explanations I get about bikes at different price points. Once I asked about the differences between Hardrocks, Rockhoppers, and Stumpjumper hardtails. "It's better", or "It's lighter", was about all the explanation I got, and I had to really press for that much. If all a salesperson can say about a $500-$800 price difference is "it's better and lighter", well, that salesperson better do some more homework. Why is something better? How much lighter is it? Why, exactly, is one derailer better than the other? What's so great about the Stumpjumper hardtail frame versus the Hardrock frame? Give me some qualitative details and hard facts to work with.

When I demoed a bike the other week, the salesperson pointed out that the front fork had ajustable travel. He even showed me which knob to turn. So then I asked the logical question: when would I want the travel to be high and when would I want it low? In short, why does that feature exist? You know the answer I got back? It was along the lines of "some people like it high and others like it low." Oh, right. Like that's helpful. I'm looking at a $3000 bike, with probably a $500+ fork, and that's the best explanation they can give me?

I don't mean to rant too much. I actually get very good service from my LBS when I go in for something specific, like a repair or an adjustment or to order a specific part. and I really like that they are bikes-only, that even this late in the year I can still drop by and there's a mechanic who can adjust or fix something on the spot. All the other bike shops around here have put their bikes away and gotten out their skis and such. But if the people at the LBS that I like so much would just spend a little more time talking to me about how and where I ride, or about how I *aspire* to ride, and if they would do more to educate me about what they sell, we'd probably both be happier. I'd have bikes more appropriate for my riding, and they'd probably make more money.

It's a relationship thing, partly. Before I can spend $2000-$4000 on a bike, I need to feel a sense of rapport, of trust. And I need them to be able to articulate clearly the advantages of such an expensive bike over and above a lesser model. "It's better" just doesn't cut it. I'm getting there, but it's not been easy.


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## branson (Oct 5, 2006)

I'd been lurking on here for a while, thinking about starting mountain biking. Despite the stories, I bought a Dept store bike (Columbia Trailhead POS) from Dick's for $160 last week. Right now it's at Dick's getting repaired. Apparently the front derailer wasn't adjusted right. The thing stopped going into the tallest front gear (3rd?) after a hard, failed bunny hop attempt. I only got to ride it twice. To all the other newbies, be patient and go to a LBS. This crap sucks, and it's my own fault...
-- B


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## burtronix (Jun 5, 2006)

branson said:


> I'd been lurking on here for a while, thinking about starting mountain biking. Despite the stories, I bought a Dept store bike (Columbia Trailhead POS) from Dick's for $160 last week. Right now it's at Dick's getting repaired. Apparently the front derailer wasn't adjusted right. The thing stopped going into the tallest front gear (3rd?) after a hard, failed bunny hop attempt. I only got to ride it twice. To all the other newbies, be patient and go to a LBS. This crap sucks, and it's my own fault...
> -- B


Now wait a minute, branson. If you do just a little research on the front end, you will see that for a few more shekels you can get a pretty decent bike at Dicks. For $300 I got an Iron Horse hardtail. It has RockShox J1 fork & disk brakes. The same bike at an LBS would have cost about $600. Dicks also has some decent Diamond Back models (see the equipment reviews elsewhere in MTBR). So to all the newbies, go to an LBS if you want somebody to tell you what to buy, or do some research yourself & save some $$$. I'd like to support my LBS, but not at twice the price for too little variety & too much attitude.


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## branson (Oct 5, 2006)

Well burtronix, I just got one of the crappy bikes then. I crashed it this morning trying to do a stoppie (wheelie on front wheel. my friends and i always called them stoppies growing up). Nice endo. Now the rear derailleur wont shift from 1-4. I essentially have a 9 speed bike. So I guess basically do your HW before you buy and dont be impulsive...


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## JeffS (Sep 8, 2006)

JmZ said:


> Helmets.
> 
> I was riding at Fort Custer over the wekend and came across quite a few riders on the trails not wearing any helmets. Mostly department store bikes or just above it. Saw one group that was a family of six or eight - great to see 'em on bikes, and on the trails, but not one had a helmet. Spending $200 or so on the bike and then refusing to spend another $20 or $30 on your head isn't a bargain I'm willing to make.


I'm in the minority on this (and for the record, I commute daily WITH a helmet), but I think the whole helmet peer-pressure thing is way overblown.

When most/many of us were growing up noone wore a helmet. I rode for about 20 years before the safety police started trying to make me wear helmets. In all those years, I never had a head injury and never knew anyone that did.

Parents who have never had a bike helmet on their head are putting their kids in them. Most would argue that they're smart, but it just seems paranoid and hypocritical to me.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

JeffS said:


> Parents who have never had a bike helmet on their head are putting their kids in them. Most would argue that they're smart, but it just seems paranoid and hypocritical to me.


Jeff is right. Parents can't afford to be hypocritical. Kids seem to be born with built-in hypocrisy detectors. That's what got me started wearing a helmet. I wanted my kids to wear them, and I knew they wouldn't buy into the helmet thing unless I also wore one. At first I felt silly riding around town with a helmet on my head, but that feeling passed after a few weeks. Now it's just a habit.


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## Cycling_Pops (Oct 21, 2006)

My experiences are short on Mountain Bikes. New to the sport and I picked up a Haro ICS 5.0 in a swap. Love the bike. I have seen Gary Fishers as low as $275 in our LBS and I too think you should spend the extra money to have a better bike plus the LBS to back you up in many different ways. You may also look at E-Bay. I have a friend that picked up a $1000 plus MB for around $300. As far a Wally world bikes, I say stay away if at all possible. Sometimes I know it may be the only way you can afford one. But the long haul you will be in the shop for repairs that will end up being the same as a bike purchased at your LBS. An $80 repair bill for a $80 bike makes NO sense at all. :madman: Have fun , be safe and happy trails.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Been there done that.*

I remember the good old days when there were no bicycle helmets. I'm lucky I can remember walking home after a car ran me off the road into some deep sand and I crashed
head first onto a curb, and had to walk a 1/2 mile home while my brain was swelling up inside my skull. I don't know how long I was unconscious in the hospital. I also didn't know my parents or my dog's name when I regained consciousness. This lasted several days. Fortunately I recovered. More recently I was given a Dept. store bike and I did a face plant in the middle of a busy intersection when the one piece crank broke. Thanks to my bike helmet I didn't even break my glasses. No hypocrisy here. If you don't want to wear a helmet that's fine with me. I've tried it both ways and I know which one I prefer.


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## hanshananigan (May 15, 2006)

If you buy a dept store bike, try to get one that does not have suspension. In general, their forks and coils scare me.

I bought an alum 21sp Huffy MTB (no suspension) from K-Mart which I used as a commuter, but then rode a few times on trails when I was getting my start in XC. I eventually got a decent HT from an LBS and wow- what a difference! I kept the Huffy as a commuter bike for years, and it was solid after fixing some problems at the onset (stuff was loose from the crappy build).


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## RyanK (Oct 29, 2006)

Hm... as my first post to mtbr, I'll tell a little story.

After my 2nd year in college, I transferred to a different university (one with a LOT of bikers). I rode my first mtb until it died... so right before moving to the new school, I went to the LBS and bought myself a '99 Hardrock Comp for $250 (LBS was making room for the '00 models). I'd only be biking to class with it. It wasn't a fancy bike, but I knew it would be reliable.

I lived in a dorm with all the other transfer students and made a lot of new friends... and I think my entry level mtb kind of helped! Everyone kept saying "nice bike, man". Eventually, my neighbor asked if he could borrow it to go down to the grocery store. Being the nice neighbor, I let him... but I thought it was odd because I knew he had a bike. Long story made short, it got to the point where 6-7 people would regularly borrow my bike even though they ALL had their own bikes (yes, they were all dept. store bikes). I was thinking it was getting a bit ridiculous so I asked all of them... you guys all have bikes... why the hell do you keep borrowing mine?! And all their answers were more or less the same:

- because it doesn't FEEL cheap like mine!
- because it's not falling apart!
- because it takes a lot less work to go fast!
- because EVERYTHING ON IT WORKS!

My bike really did become the town bike everyone rode. And then some asshat stole the saddle and seat post the last quarter I was there. Years later, I revived the bike with a few really minor upgrades. Still rides great and I hit the trails with it every weekend (full rigid front and rear and all!). One of these days, I'll treat myself to one of them nice bikes that has... you know, suspension on it.


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## vleett (Feb 4, 2006)

I kinda regret that I did not start with a department store bike when I started riding.

I went for a medium priced bike as my first bike, and learnt a lot about riding xc on that bike. However, as the skills and confidence developed, I decided to change to a better bike which meant that I had to sell my first bike to get the 2nd better bike.

If I had started with a department store bike, I would have had more cash left over to spend on the better bike...


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## txjohng (Oct 12, 2006)

*WAL MART BIKES ARE OK if ...*

1) That is all you can afford, I guess it is better than no bike
2) To ride around college campus

I'm not sure about your college, but at my old colleges I'd see many bikes damaged or parts stolen while locked up. Now, I actually never seen it in action, but have see a frame locked up, or a front wheel, or a seat post missing ...

so yeah, If I were to ride around campus, I would buy an el cheapo bike ...


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

Or a trials bike cause they look so wierd that noone would want to steal one.


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

Idk x-mart bikes they are getting better I think are they great hell no. But for some one getting into mtbing and they are in their teens and dont want to drop 400+ then its an alternative....


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## Falling Rock (Nov 13, 2006)

Well now SOME X mart bikes are better than others . 
Here is a quick summary. I wanted to ride again but I wasn't sure. 
I only had maybe $80.00 to spend so I saw a nice looking Roadmaster MTB at Wally Mart (Now referred too as THE BUICK  )
It served its purpose as a "do I really want to ride again?" bike and mostly a "whatever" bike..AS In I ride it to the park and ride and if the chain is clipped and the bikes stolen "whatever" I only paid $50.00 for it... no tears would be shed.

Well it got me hooked and I needed a lighter bike with better components.. But still didnt want to spend $$$ cuz well you know I still wasn't sure. The trails I rode were getting old and it was summer and so I was spending more time on a Wave Runner than my bike.
Since I grew up with Schwinns I found used a Schwinn Ranger 2.6 on Craigs list. WAAYY lighter than my old Roadmaster and OH MY.. Shimano gears and a real rock shox RST fork. Ok so it was a used Target bike. But it only took one roadtrip to realize it wasn't EVEN in the same city as the "BUICK". It was well built and well the components are still to this day precise and flawless. So at least Schwinn is a good buy even at the X marts.

Honestly if theres a weak link other than the old style neck in that Schwinn I cant find it .. I just spent the weekend crossing a river bed after we took the wrong trail. It involved river crossing (on the bike of course :thumbsup: ) and basically chucking the bike over and over on what was an endless field of boulders to get to the right trail on the other side. The Chro-Mo frame ate it up. The alloty wheels are still true, no cracks on the frame.
Oh it's been a year now and I still have the BUICK. Nobody will steal it no matter where I leave it  All though somebody did steal the seat and post...


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## taikuodo (Jul 3, 2006)

Lol, my friend owns the Schwinn Ranger. He bought it for 140 + tax..33 pounds now compared to my 15 year old 26 pound steel rigid that i bought for 160 that has deore xt/lx... =D

Theres no problem with using a dept store bike for simple stuff, but it simply doesn't hold value. 

He probably can only sell his for $80 bucks if hes lucky. Mine can probably appreciate or at least hold the same value.


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## 4point7vee8 (Dec 9, 2006)

I bought an older model Mongoose Pro Alta tonight.










The people at dicks let me ride it around in the lot for a while, and I checked everything from the weaksauce disc brakes to the shady shimano quick-shift.

It had just been assembled. I literally caught the guy bringing it out to the floor.

Everything works fine, and I bashed the hell out of it on some 10 foot / 70 degree drops, hit all kinds of curbs.

The frame is extremely big, which works out, me being about 200 lbs.

Best part is I didn't pay but $250 for it (marked down from $500), and got the warranty where I can run over it with my truck, and they buy me a new one for the next 3 years. Anything breaks, they fix it, no question. And 4 free tune-up cards.

So for under $300 I have a bike that I can literally bash until the wheels fall off, and decide if mountain biking is for me. And I have 3 years to decide.

I know there are better bikes out there. This isn't my only hobby.

I race nitro cars, shoot everything from airsoft to real handguns, rifles, shotguns... Wrench on my combustion powered forms of transportation, and race them. Build computers, like the one I'm using right now. Compete in gaming matches / leagues from counter-strike on PC to gears of war on XBOX 360. Oh yeah, skate on my own boards too.

Until I'm positive that MTB is going to be a big part of my life, I'm not going to a bike shop and shelling out tons of money for a hobby that might not last a week. Ask my 70+ mph nitro car the last time it ran.


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## Justin06GT (Nov 20, 2006)

Hmmm well here is my story
back in 99 I was a senior in HS going to college. I never knew anything about MTB and saw my FS Concord at Target, it was the top of the line Target bike for 200$ has some Shimano brakes and derailers on it. The bike has lasted all thou college and a few trails around the front range. This bike can't go up hills on the road as well as the GT i-Drive but oddly enough the Concord shifts better then the GT, and when I bought the GT the rear derailer (sram x.7 9 spd) didn't go into the highest gear and after i got the bike shop to fix it it still has issues with gear switching when going uphill where as the Concord gets the gear.

I have rode both to work for 6 months (3 months on each) straight (3-4 days a week) on each, but more with the Concord because it got colder when I bought the GT.

I also was bad with maintaining the Concord, but I am getting better
another thing is that with the cocord I'm not as worried about parking it outside at work or letting a friend borrow it to let him go to work.
Also, the Concord has a coil rear which can handle more rough stuff then the GT (example: I took both bikes on the same trail and there was a creek bed that was dry and about a good 4 foot drop/dip and the GT blew out the rear shock (on it's first ride on a trail) where as the coil took it well)

I will give the GT credit as it being 10+ lbs lighter (aluminum vs steel) and MUCH better braking (hyd disc vs rim), much better at climbing (12-34 9 spd rear and 44-32-22 front vs 13-28 7 spd and 48-38-28 front)


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## PSYCLONE (Dec 8, 2006)

About 8 years ago, I got a killer deal on a Royce Union Performance 800 from Sports Authority. Deathly afraid of road bikes, so that become my urban ride. I rode that thing pretty rough and it's still kicking. Nice flat black frame too, and minimal Royce Union decals. I got my money's worth.


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## Justin06GT (Nov 20, 2006)

Also, since big name brand name bikes have entry level bikes, if the big names want a good rep when you get serious about biking I would think that you would want a good quaility bike that is cheap to build a rep on, or maybe that is just old school thinking


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I posted ''Ironhorse Warrior Comp $350'' in bargains. Somebody else posted 25% off coupon, and somebody went and haggled a little, and got the bike for $175 at Sports authority. That's a killer entry level HT for entry level price.


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## taikuodo (Jul 3, 2006)

I just went off a 1 foot drop with my dads Mongoose Iboc which retails for $150 in stores, and now the rear rim is untrue side to side...


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## 1_fez_rider (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm a bike builder on the weekends and I know when I build bikes for the LBS that I work in, I make sure everything is tuned and dialed in. Last thing I need is someone test riding one of the bikes I built and them not being able to stop or not being able to turn because the handle bars were loose.

I started off with a Gary Fisher Tarpon from an LBS. It cost me about $200 at the time. But by the time I realized that I was hooked on mountain biking, I had spent way too much in upgrades. So eventually I started searching for a better bike. 

But I don't know if you would consider Fezzari Bicycles a department store brand, but they do offer their bikes online, and I even saw them at Costco one time. I liked the bike so much that I got myself an Alta Peak. It cost me about $1100 and I felt good about my purchase. I was looking around for a good XC bike for a while but everything that I saw was pretty expensive. I mean some of the bikes in the same range as the Alta Peak were at least $1400. So I figured I might as well go with them, even if I didn't like the bike I could still return in within 30 days. 

But so far the bike hasn't disappointed me at all. I love it.

So to make my story shorter, I say get a cheapo bike to start off with. Then if you think that you're going to be riding for a long time, I say make the investment towards a nice bike. I say investment because I know that if I had gone with a better bike than my Gary Fisher Tarpon, then I wouldn't have spent so much in upgrades. 

Hope that helps.


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## sweetguardian001 (Jan 10, 2007)

I could not agree more, my and my buddy todd (tjfox87) are filming a video and we are gonna put a segment in with us jumping off a cliff (not huge) with a bike, and as much as i hate my jamis (old bike) i cant bear to kill it like that, we were gonna buy one of those "extreme off road bikes" that looks like it can't even make it on the road to do it with, if anyone has any clips or ideas for our movie, drop us a message and we'll consider it greatly


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

I made the mistake of getting a dept store bike for my first bike. My doctor bills from my rims taco'N cost more than buying a decent first bike. Do yourself a favor, don't buy dept store.


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## redarm1 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Every now and then*

I have to say, I find that my Walmart Bought, Mongoose Blackcomb is a decent bike.
I bought it for $80 bucks after some schmoe returned it because it was too big for them.
Thank god for Walmart employees. otherwise it probably would have been alot more costly.

Anyway,
After a season of riding, I found the bike to be quite enjoyable. The folks at Dirt world also seemed to like it. They reccomended a tune up, and thats what I did. 
It is a bit on the heavy side, but hey, so am I, so whos to judge 

Of course I am not a pro rider by any means, and when I get a bit more in to some more serious stuff, ill definately upgrade. but at least I have something to practice on that I dont feel a great loss if I happen to fall down a mountain and smash it up. ( If I survive that is)


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## JJGNC (Dec 25, 2006)

*Mongoose Was My First*

My first mountain bike was a Mongoose and yes it was from Wal-Mart. I never had one problem with that bike. I road it for a few months before it was stolen from my unlocked garage (whoops). The shifting, braking and other adjustments were choppy from the start, but I adjusted them all myself and it was a great ride afterwards. My main problem was a lack of needed braking power on real trails (they were not disc brakes) and the overall weight of the bike. It was at least 10 lbs too heavy, or so it felt. The gears were great once adjusted propertly. It was a full suspension, though...which doesn't seem to agree with me.

I actually had two mountain bikes (I got the two Mongoose bikes from my parents as a gift). The one I actually rode was great. The other was so badly adjusted (or not adjusted at all or even manufactured right) that I never rode it more than 50 feet because I didnt' trust it with my life.

I'm now glad my Mongoose bikes were stolen, because now I have a hard-tail Haro V4.


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## Dave In Florida (Apr 4, 2007)

Hi all, first post here because I'm a newbie to mountain biking. This was the first thread I read when I came to this site and I took the advice seriously. As a pretty big guy (6-2 270) and a newb, I didn't want to spend a ton of money on my first bike. I wanted to get on the trails and learn what I like/dislike so I can build my way to the "perfect" ride. I did alot of research at local bike shops. The best deal was a Specialized Hard Tail which ran about $500. I took note of all of the hardware on this bike while I was looking at it. I then went to my local Dick's Sporting Goods. There I found an Iron Horse 1.3. This bike had EXACTLY the same hardware as the $500 Specialized, but it was only $349 (actually, the Warrior has a RockShox Dart 1 fork whereas the specialized had something that seemed inferior). I bought this bike and love riding it on the flat trails we have here in Florida. As someone who can do their own work on a bike, I couldn't see dishing out the extra $150 to have some guy fit the bike and tighten the screws on it. 

Basically I just wanted to say not all department store bikes are bad. Do some research and you can make a wise choice.


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## brandonbacc (Apr 8, 2007)

*re-built 'Goose*

First off,I support my LBS. Go ahead, ask the kid at the dept. store what a bottom bracket is . I've been riding mtb since 94'. Kona's and Specialized. 
Well married two kids, and a aging body, I was looking for a full susp. for cheap. A friend was getting rid of his son's Dept. store Mongoose. I stripped it down, transfered components from the Kona. Come to find out, he paid $500 for the 'goose. Good frame but crappy components.
I went to the LBS to grab the stuff I needed. 
So now I have a dept. "goose loaded with XTR, Fox, Ritchie and Kona
Why buy a dept bike when you are going to throw away most of the parts. Check out your local yard sales for killer deals.
And support your local bike shop:thumbsup:


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## adrianhabicht (Apr 30, 2007)

I am all for supporting your LBS......I have 3 kids two truck payments, a wife and am buying a house. Soooo this past weekend we went looking around for a pari of mountain bikes for my wife and I. We took our time and asked a ton of questions, compared this to that and $ to $$$$. Came out with an Iron Horse quantum/Warrior Comp Hardtail and a Diamondback Outlook in pink of course in hardtail form as well. All in all we spent about $600, and I could not be happier.....for now. The Iron horse seemed to come well equiped for what it is with Marzocchi MZ Comp front shock, sram shifters/front/rear derailer and hayes mech discs. The wife is not as hard on things and has similar components aside from the disc brakes and has a "Zoom" front shock? Anyhow I was just happy that I could get her into the sport with me so I will take what I can get at the moment....and when she/we feel like we are ready for that $1200 ride I am sure we will step up. 
Love the sport and the people involved, take care, 


Adrian and Family


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## eclipse_9 (May 6, 2007)

*bought a mongoose*

i wanted to get into mountain biking and didn't have the money right away, but i wanted to see if i liked riding. so i went and spent about 80 bucks at a department store on a mongoose hardtail. from the start it was a nightmare, which is what i figured. the first time i rode the bike out of my garage the front tube popped within about 15 feet. so i patched it and rode the rest of the day, the next morning the tire was flat. So i had the dept store replace the tube. a few days later, the back tube popped. so they fixed it. the handlebars kept coming lose and slipping around on the trails. the brakes constantly had to be adjusted before each ride. the frame started bending, the back wheel bent terribly after about 50 miles of riding. and once i rode over a small stick which flipped up between a few back spokes and got lodged in my rear derailure which bent a lot of crap, so i had to replace the part.

that was all in about 4 weeks and 50 miles total. so then i got mad at the bike and retired it before getting a lbs bike. it was worth the experience of understanding why the better bikes are worth the money and i got a quick course on fixing small things.


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## mtbhermit (Mar 8, 2007)

As a kid from a low income family I always had a department store bike. It was a Dunlop 26" Mens bike, a couple got stolen and were replaced. I remember my last one, used to ride it up the tracks & trails through the local hills & mountains, it was fully rigid as they are and around 18kg but I guess at least it made me fit! Eventually things started skipping (rear cassette) and then the bearings wore through the hubs from years of use. It was funny when my husband serviced the hubs at one stage, overpacked it with car grease and I thought that it was worse than it had been to begin with!
My first real bike was a Specialized Hardrock Comp back in 2001, wow the power of the brakes compared to the Dunlop is my very first memory and just how light / crisp it felt to ride. A world of difference compared to having something heavy & poor fitting.

I think it's good to come from a department store bike and appreciate having something better, and I'd have one any day rather than having no bike at all. 

Ha ha at least they're cheap to replace when stolen!


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## firemedic (May 14, 2007)

Dave In Florida said:


> Hi all, first post here because I'm a newbie to mountain biking. This was the first thread I read when I came to this site and I took the advice seriously. As a pretty big guy (6-2 270) and a newb, I didn't want to spend a ton of money on my first bike. I wanted to get on the trails and learn what I like/dislike so I can build my way to the "perfect" ride. I did alot of research at local bike shops. The best deal was a Specialized Hard Tail which ran about $500. I took note of all of the hardware on this bike while I was looking at it. I then went to my local Dick's Sporting Goods. There I found an Iron Horse 1.3. This bike had EXACTLY the same hardware as the $500 Specialized, but it was only $349 (actually, the Warrior has a RockShox Dart 1 fork whereas the specialized had something that seemed inferior). I bought this bike and love riding it on the flat trails we have here in Florida. As someone who can do their own work on a bike, I couldn't see dishing out the extra $150 to have some guy fit the bike and tighten the screws on it.
> 
> Basically I just wanted to say not all department store bikes are bad. Do some research and you can make a wise choice.


Looks like I am following in your steps. The wife wanted a bike but is looking for trail riding only, I have a GT that is about 12 years old give or take, so I said what the hell. Saw the 1.3 and to me looked pretty good, now my bike "back in the day" was my first mountain bike and was about $500 I think. I might stay with trail riding with wife of maybe get more into it, but with all of my other hobbies, $300 on a bike that is almost the same as a $500 bike is not too bad, looking for an update on the 1.3 but probably going to pick on up tonight. Looking to get out on the trails, and loose a few lbs, and have fun with the wife, this is will be her first bike since a kid, again she picked up a DB Sorrento. Seems to be a great site with lots of info. Might even be a little more hard core than I will ever need but you can never have too much info!


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## jonny290 (May 8, 2007)

My first bike was a shiny black-with-green-splatter-paint Huffy 18 speed 26" mtb.

Total kitted out weight, not including water: 46 pounds

I cranked that sucker up and down hills ALL SUMMER LONG, year after year. Had monster legs as a result.

It disappeared one night at college  I hope whoever took it truly needed it for a ride, or at least had some fun with it.


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## tiger_song (May 14, 2007)

Thanks for all of you for the helpful posts.

I bought my Giant Boulder SE for $250 in a LBS. Loved it and grinning when my neighbor's Department Store bike stopped working after one fell.


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## kipt (May 28, 2007)

*First time mountian bike owner*

Hi all,
I purchased a beginner's bike, Iron Horse Warrior 1.3 from Dick's and I think the front suspension is a little too soft. Is there a way to adjust it to become stiffer? Is it that I've been riding a Puch 10 speed for the last 20 years and just need to adjust?


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## Dave In Florida (Apr 4, 2007)

I own the same bike and love it. On the left side of the front fork you'll see a black knob. This knob adjusts the pre-load on the spring in the fork. I'm 275 and it doesn't feel too soft for me (with it all the way tightened).


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## evilimprdr (Jun 7, 2007)

IMO I don't think I would put Dicks in the "department store" catogory w/ wal-mart and say target. The Dicks around me acually assemble there bikes on site. They have knowledgable sales reps selling there bikes and know what and how to size a bike. I just bought my Iron Horse maverick trail se on clearance w/ coupons and savings from my dicks card i spent 309 after tax. Has the marzzochi mz comp, hayes mech disc brakes, and everything that adrianhabicht ironhorse has. I love it. I think it's 300% better than any mongoose from walmart and will hold up 100x longer also. The sales associate teched it out making sure all adjustments were to the way I liked them. I'd consider dicks a kind of LBS even though it's not a true LBS.


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## hanshananigan (May 15, 2006)

Justin06GT said:


> ...but oddly enough the Concord shifts better then the GT,


Yeah, that was my experience with cheap bikes I've used as commuters. I had a Huffy bought in 1999 at Kmart and rode it thru 2005 to school and around. the SRAM grip shifters were set-it-and-forget-it.

I think the moral of the story is if you want a commuter or fireroad bike, a Kmart/Walmart bike will do fine (if it survives the first week breakin period). If you want to go off-road or jump off of stuff, at least buy from Dicks or whatever, if you don't go to an LBS.


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## croscoe (May 23, 2007)

I bought a Wal-Mart bike ($80) to start off with. I didn't want to drop serious coin on something I wouldn't enjoy. As it turns out, I really enjoy cycling (yes, even on the cheap ba$tard bike). The bike isn't "great" by any means, but it does function... for now. I do usually end up truing the rear wheel every other week though.


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## eclipse_9 (May 6, 2007)

i ended up spending i think $25 for my LBS to put a better rear wheel on and i have ridden trails 3-4 times with it and no problems yet, haven't had to adjust the brakes or anything.


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## WCPK (Jun 11, 2007)

*Department store bikes have a purpose.*

When I was dating the lady who is now my wife, I was mountain biking at the time and she wanted to try it out. I went to a sporting goods store and pick out a bike that was around $200. I tuned it myself and made sure it had all the necessary parts and accessories. After a couple of months of light trail riding I saw how serious she was about biking and our relationship. I took her to a LBS and got her a GF wahoo. She immediately notice the difference and since then we have shared many bike rides together. NOW! If I had bought her a nice bike in the begining and she hated biking or we broke up, I would be pissed. Instead I have her and the bike. I am buying a new one because I beat the hell out of mine and it is 14 years old. Hers is still in good shape. A good tune up and a bike seat for the baby and we'll be hitting the trails again.

I would not put Sports Autority or Dick's sporting goods in the same category as Wal-Mart and Target. They have some good low end bikes there for starting off. Like a previous posting said. It is a good way to learn about tuning, fixing and upgrading bikes before you take the big step and drop a grand or more on a better mt.bike. Just my opinion. Happy trails. Wear a helmet as a previous posting mentioned. It could mean the difference between biking or a nurse feeding you and wiping the drool off your chin for the rest of your life.


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## Dacdog (Jun 11, 2007)

I bought a mongoose d40r from walmart a few years ago. I freaked out when i saw it i'm 32 now but when i was younger mongoose was a great name. Its a FS bike. I really getting into riding now and will be getting my 07 Rockhopper disc in about a week. I hit some sponsored trails at a park near my house. Some of the trails I hit are so called expert. I make it through. I'm getting really excited about nailing them with my new bike. I know the mongoose is crap....something for the wife to ride now!


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## NEWBIE1982 (Jun 23, 2007)

All good points everyone has made i love my 06 quantum 3 my wife bought for me at SPORTS AUTHORITY 19.5 frame and components they are the less expensive but great brands, work for now, I think by doing your research you will find that some of the bikes sports authority carries are really good beginner bikes like mine for instance price tag 499 wife got it for 299 and i contacted a IRON HORSE rep and he explained that my bike was basicaly a S.M.U. (special make up) but that its a IRON HORSE MAVERICK 3.0 but runs the (quantum 3) name for sports authority so do your reserch and have fun!!


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## evilimprdr (Jun 7, 2007)

newbie I'm riding an Iron Horse mavrick trail se from dicks sporting goods. It's defenatly not a walmart bike. I had it over at the local trek store cause they had a bontager sport crank on sale and I couldn't refuse so I had it there and the guys said for the price I couldn't go wrong w/ getting that bike.


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*You got lucky*

given all the [email protected] "bikes" they do sell there. Jim

Brand

Columbia (4) 
Honda Bikes (2) 
Huffy (9) 
Jeep (6) 
Kawasaki (1) 
Mongoose (12) 
Quasar Bikes (1) 
Schwinn (7) 
Smith & Wesson (1)


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

columbia bikes are made by iron horse. they have a decent higher priced ($500-$600) bike that is a warrior fs frame with okay components.

http://www.columbia.com/Product.aspx?p=2474&cat=72030&top=7


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*Not at*



saturnine said:


> Columbia bikes are made by iron horse. they have a decent higher priced ($500-$600) bike that is a warrior FS frame with Kay components.
> 
> http://www.columbia.com/Product.aspx?p=2474&cat=72030&top=7


Dick's - they don't carry the better ones. This thread is to keep unsuspecting buyers out of Dept stores. No newbie will know the facts you just posted, so although it's great for those like you in the know,_ it helps no new buyer at all_.

Jim


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## evilimprdr (Jun 7, 2007)

JimC. said:


> given all the [email protected] "bikes" they do sell there. Jim
> 
> Brand
> 
> ...


I've been in about 6 dicks stores in the state of ohio and not one has any of those on your list. Don't go online and see what they have. Acually what they carry in store is mostly iron horse and DB and not one of those are online.


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*not worth*

debating:

but 
1) it's not _my_ list, it's Dicks.

2) there are more states than Ohio and so there are many victims out there that will wander into Dick's and similar and buy what they think is a good bike.

3) this is a beginner's forum, and as I said to the other poster, if you know what you're doing you're OK, but a rank newbie doesn't know one bike from another, so this (original) thread is to help those folks out, not debate small anomalies in stock carried by various and sundry Dept Stores.

this isn't directed at you, as I said, it's to help those out that don't know a 38lb Costco tank from a ~ $500 or so, great 1st bike.

Jim


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## NEWBIE1982 (Jun 23, 2007)

TO ALL NEWBIE'S!!!!!!
Dont just go out and buy a bike whether from DICKS or wherever, do yourself a favor do some research!!!!!!!!!! RESEARCH thats what i did and i love my IH from SORTS AUTHORITY OK! JIM dont be so negative if you find a bike you like and rides well go for it,you know!


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

JimC. said:


> Dick's - they don't carry the better ones. This thread is to keep unsuspecting buyers out of Dept stores. No newbie will know the facts you just posted, so although it's great for those like you in the know,_ it helps no new buyer at all_.
> 
> Jim


i am a newbie. all i did was research.


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## krcweekend warrior (Mar 31, 2007)

I've got an old old old (almost as old as me) Trek 820 single trac w/ orig. fork and wheels. I want to up grade to disc brakes is this possible or will i have to go get way to many new parts to make it worth it. I been considering going to a full suspension bike in the future but I also have a family of Ethopians to feed first.


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## lambiam (May 26, 2007)

I bought my IH Warrior from Dick's and my bike has had a few issues...but thats my fault for not test riding before i bought it...


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## krcweekend warrior (Mar 31, 2007)

;i got an idea, how about a good LBS department store bike toss like the old guitar shops youst to do!


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## michaeln (Jun 19, 2007)

I started off buying a shwinn sidewinder ($130ish) at walmart. Rode it for a week and it sucked. Returned it and went to my LBS and bought a specialized hardrock sport ($380ish). The hardrock sport is sooooo much better and I'm having more fun biking.

This is my first bike in 15+ years.


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## viger (May 8, 2007)

i got a bike from a local departmental store and was deceived by the salesman. aleoca was said to be made in italy. i later learnt that aleoca bikes are made in china. i was extremely inexperienced and got 2 fs for my dad and i to cycle around the neighbour.

after having had the bikes rusting in the balcony since 2000, i picked up cycling once again to keep fit, hitting the roads more often than the trails. but i gotta admit, hundreds and hundreds of hours were spent cleaning the frame and components, polishing the steel parts and of cos maintaining the low quality components. i had to fork out $$ for avid v-brakes in place of the ineffective old cantilever bikes as well as a new cassette and gear shifters...and these updates cost more than the bike itself already.

moral of the story? get good bikes, if you're cash strapped, get a complete bike with a good frame and slowly change the components when you have the cash. and it helps to have deep pockets.


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## Big Pwn (Jul 13, 2007)

*W00T! 1st post, baby!*

I thought this would would be a great place for me to make my first post since I found you guys while looking to upgrade my bike--already! ty ty!

Great thread (and forum)! Didn't need to read it, but it really did dismiss any doubts about laying down some relatively serious cash for a decent quality bike! It further strengthened what I already knew from listening to knowledgeable riders/self-wrenchers. (side note: It made me very sad to read about people who had very little money to spend on a bike even though they too like to ride and want to be accepted into the fray as a real MTB'r :sad: )

Like most of you, I grew-up riding bikes....and it was a simpler time! Since turning 21, you'd mostly see me perched on a bar stool for any kind of "posterior-mounted recreation", however, I have always been in good shape. Anyway, about 2 months ago, some of my co-workers have started to do some basic trail riding and I got really sick of hearing their great stories of death-defying maneuvers and absolutely HUGE air, so I got in the market for a new ride. Now I've already heard the funny stories, from these guys, about this one cat we work with who had a lead sled Huffy that was way less than trail-worthy and I didn't want to be the next joke-of-the-trail! Luckily, I was schooled early by the co-worker who has been in the game for awhile enough to know the differences laid out by this very thread. He asked me if I would like to spend $200 every other year or $1000 to cover the next 7-10. I countered with the notion that I may not dig it and end up having a nice expensive place to hang my dirty laundry. He then regarded to safety and spoke in my terms which went something like, "Would you buy a nice looking folding knife with a crappy locking mechanism?". No. He then pointed me in some great directions, like a nice mom & pop LBS from which I bought my new ride. I spent $900 on a brand-new $1200 bike (since it was an E-Bay deal) and, comparative to discussion, it works like a Swiss-made watch!

Since then, I've upgraded to an XTR crankset and now looking for better brakes. Money is the one thing that seems to separate a lot of the folks posting here, so my point of view is slightly biased towards the thicker wallet types. However, YOU DO SEEM TO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

When I was a kid, my folks could only afford Huffy and the like. If I wanted a better brand, it had to be second hand (this is where my sympathy for the poor comes from). It wasn't until I was a teenager that I could afford a good ride myself, so until then I had to hang with (BMX dayz) Haro's, GT's, & Dyno's with my puny 2mm Huffy cranks. But when I did get a good bike, my legs were coiled springs and my friends thought I was a freak on the pedals. Little did they know I lusted after their machines for years--dreaming of the day I could by a "nice" bike. Now I'm the one who gets to say, "Would you like to ride it?"  Life is like that sometimes. I've been on both sides of the fence and I know the difference between driving a Neon and Cadillac, so to speak.

Point being, if you have the cash to spend - do it! If you don't, save up the money to at least the $400 price point and you really won't go wrong*. In terms of fit, finish, style, and above all, performance, there is nothing quite like the feeling you'll get hitting the *trails* on something with more than two wheels, grips, and a seat. Trust this noob!

Cya'round,
pWN

p.s. Our "joke-of-the-trail" Huffy guy recently upgraded to a $400 Diamondback bought from our LBS and says it's world's apart from his former ride and feels much more confident being on it. If that doesn't say it all then I don't know what will as this guy is tighter than a ducks butt when it comes to money. The components are a bit sketchy for the snob in me but the frame is robust enough to expand upon; not gonna break and I feel like I won't be carrying him back to the car when his welds turn to dust, like we all thought his old bike would end up doing!

*_Only_ buy from a LBS and always always wear a helmet no matter how uncool you might think you look. If I hadn't worn a helmet last ride, I would be looking very uncool with a big dent in my brain! Been to the hospital twice this month cause I'm two parts stupid, one part crazy, eight parts too old, and missing most of the talent parts all together.


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## dabears51 (Aug 21, 2007)

*First post for me as well*

I'm new to this forum as well. Hey guys!

I've been mountain biking on trails for about 6 months now. I used to have a 1996 18 speed RAND (if you've ever heard of it) that I never took on the trails before. In march, I bought a Walmart Mongoose XR250 for $200. I bought it because it had front disc brakes, can you believe that? I took it on the trails for the first time in March and could you believe it, I hit a tree root while bombing downhill and my rear derailleur bent inward and twisted into the rear wheel causing it to bend. The stock rear derailleur was a cheap Shimano Tourney. I upgraded to a better but still cheap Shimano Sora. I've been using the bike stock except for the derailleur now with no other problems. The tires are double walled, the coil is 1100lbs and the disc brake is a cheap promax but it works great. It is obviously a heavy bike weighing in at 40lbs. I assume most of you guys weigh less than 170lbs from what I've read and would have problems using this bike going uphill. I weigh 215lbs but don't really have problems going uphill unless I've been riding 2+ hours.

I just recently bought a 2005 K2 Lithium 4.0 frame that I will be building over the winter so come next year, I'll be ready. In my opinion, the only reason I'm upgrading is for the weight savings. The stock weight for a K2 4.0 is 29lbs. I could probably get it to around 27 though.


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## doaozz (Aug 29, 2007)

To be honest, I've owned big-box store bicycles all my life and, if you don't plan on doing any extreme off-roading with them, you'll be fine. My latest bike is a Triax made by Dynacraft purchased from Target for around 150.00, and I've been more than pleased with the bike thus far. After quite a few trail rides, and a couple 50 mile trips here and there, it's been a very comfortable and reliable dual-suspension machine for the price-tag. True, it's no 2000.00 Cannondale, but it does exactly what I need it to do (Ride trails and pavement comfortably and reliably) and the only issue which has arisen thus far has been a bent rim resulting from a collision with an SUV not too long ago. In the future, I plan on replacing the derailleur with something a bit more durable, and perhaps adding some new components here and there but otherwise maintaining a stock setup.


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## trekbuddy (Aug 31, 2007)

A cheap Dept store bike is what got me back into riding again. At least until the cheapo shifters broke in a spill. I will say that my modified Trek 3700 has been a great bike. Some of the 3700 components are pretty cheap but are still better than what gets put on a Wal-mart "Next". Not to mention once you have a solid bike to build on, upgrade parts are pretty cheap on E-bay. 

Hi by the way! I am new to the Forums area. I have been using MTBR for advice since I got the Trek but just now started looking at the Forums area.


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## Jaisance (Sep 11, 2007)

*Motobecane for Beginner?*

Hi! Right now I've got a roaring headache and probably the most bewildered look on my face from exhaustive research online on bikes in general for my boyfriend's upcoming birthday. I don't know anything about bikes a week ago! I was looking at Dept Store ones, lured as I was by the prices, but now that I've read through this thread... Lol consider me properly fearful. (Thanks, btw, for everybody's insightful hints. This is an eye-opening experience for me!) Anyway, I'm really considering this one: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/motobecane_300HT07.htm

but I would greatly appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Sigh, who knew bikes were so complicated? Apparently you can get a great frame, but bad components and it never seems like a win-win deal, huh? And I still have no idea what a fork is.


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*You need to*

post this over in "what bike to buy"..it'll get lost in this thread.

Jim


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## daleksic (Aug 26, 2007)

I used to ride as a young guy a lot. I grew up in a big city that had lots of biketrails everywhere. We even went to school (15km away) on the bike, and then took it up to mountain on weekends for scary fast downhills. So i basically biked most of my live on a fairly expesive bike until I moved to Florida (1995) where things stopped. In 1999 i bought a NEXT bike at Wallyworld (Walmart) and I rode maybe 20 miles with it (over 4 years) and thought well i must have really lost it as I can't even ride for more than 2 miles anymore. And there it was hanging in my garage until recently. 

Through this forum I got in touch (by incident) with a few people and took it out riding on a trail (yes the Wallyworld bike), and after just a couple of hours I cracked the frame, broke of the seat and bent the rims to a point where I had to disconnect the brakes (without crashing it!). I went to my LBS and picked up a 08 Rockhopper from Specialized; 3 weeks later I logged over 80 miles, mostly offroad.

What a difference, I can't even describe it. I made a mistake in 99 to buy a cheap heavy bike that was poorly built and assempled. I learned from my mistake and rather than buying a cheap bike for my 6 year-old son (who learned how to ride on a cheap bike) I bought a used Specialized Hardrock bike for $60 at the LBS and absolutely he loves it. My wife's next, she doesn't go riding with us because she has the same bike I broke; but her birthday is comming up and I'm trying to figure out what bike to get her. I will definetly get a bike from my LBS. PM me any recommendations on a bike for women as I don't know what you girls out there like. I'm torn between a Mountain and a Comfort Mountain bike.

When it all comes down to, I'd rather buy a beat up, scratched, old, nasty professional bike for $100 (and then spend maybe another $50 in upgrades/parts/repairs) than spend even $20 on a bike at Wallyworld.

That's just my $0.02


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

i bought an iron horse maverick 1.3 from dicks a few months ago, it was a steal, the rock shox dart fork and hayes mx4 disk brakes made the bike cheaper then buying the parts seperate and throwing them on my gary fisher, ive had some problems so far but nothing i cant tweak with my tools, if you know what youre buying, a department store bike isnt THAT bad, considering my IH has the same components as my gary fisher it was more the adjusting i had to do that was a pain, but shes up and running great now!


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## Rhizodus (Sep 28, 2007)

Department Store vs Bike Shop purchases:

I just started riding a mountain bike 8 weeks ago, it was my son's Huffy Tundra. I rode it for two weeks and then had to put it up for fear of trashing it. I rode mainly on pavement and a few converted rail bed trails (13 km long with crusher dust surface). The rims brake surfaces were badly scored by the metalic brake pads, the rims themselves (front and back) had a pronounced wobble and the drive train started to act up. The saddle was an ass cracker after 5 kms. 
I talked with a buddy at work who does single track racing and he recommended spending minimum of 500 dollars to get something that would be decent. I ended up buying a 2007 Norco Bushpilot and was astounded at the differences. After riding it for 6 weeks and logging over 570 km's, the rims were still true, mechanical disc brakes havent scored, drivetrain works like it did when I first got it. The only pm I do is clean and lube the drive train weekly. It actually weighs 10 lbs less than the Tundra and is a bigger bike.
It goes to show, you get what you pay for!


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## yone (Jul 22, 2007)

*Completed or custom?*

I'm pretty interested in getting a Specialized Hardrock. I've seen some Hardrock frames for sale locally, that are VERY cheap. I'm wondering if it would be cheaper to build the bike from the frame up. . .or if I would be better off buying the completed bike?

At first I thought piecing it together would be cheaper - but after looking at prices for individual components, it looks like it wouldn't take long to surpass the $300-$400 to just buy the complete bike. . .

Any suggestions or personal experiences would be appreciated.


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## Slyp Dawg (Oct 13, 2007)

prior to getting my I-Drive 4 5.0 disk, I rode a toysrus FS bike. for a while it was great. this was prior to my getting interested in trail riding. mainly what I did was just riding around the neighborhood. the thing was an absolute piece of crap. twist grip shifter broke because the plastic inside of the shifter wasn't strong enough to pull the cable to downshift, the suspension had possibly 1 inch of cumulative travel, maybe 1.5 inches. it was completely pathetic. the brakes worked well once I adjusted them and put road bike pads onto it, but the shifting was never anything close to satisfactory. plastic (!) cranks, plastic pedals, heavy-as-a-***** frame, narrow bars, typical wallyworld/toysrus bike character traits. the difference between this bike and the I-Drive 4 5.0 disk i ride now is day and night. shifting on the GT is effortless, the suspension actually can move throughout it's entire travel, it's lighter than my old bike, and the brakes work very well. a wee bit of pedal bob but taht's just nitpicking


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## PRIVATEPARTS (Nov 12, 2007)

if you are looking at getting into mountain biking save your money and buy a bike from your local LBS. Sservice and support go a long way. beside you wont wind up with a broken pos a week after you take it home. as the saying goes you cant make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.


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## DoinkMobb (Nov 17, 2007)

Meh. Go spend $100 on a crappy dept store bike, beat the crap out of it and then decide if you want to spend the extra money for a REAL bike. And then when you buy a REAL bike, marvel at how the brakes don't constantly stick, or how your derailleurs don't throw the chain off off or that the front suspension has more then 20mm of travel. I'm pretty sure that by starting off on a heavy, crappy Target bike, I'm going to be blown away by a lighter name brand bike with quality components.

By the way, my Target bike is functional. I can ride it down a trail and have fun doing so. It didn't explode the second it touched dirt and I didn't die because I went over a root. Some of you guys are being a bit alarmist about dept store bikes. I'm not singing their praises, however, just saying they serve their purpose. It's good enough for now (kinda, but not really).

Phase 1: buy cheap dept store bike to start out
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: buy a real bike if you decide you like the sport enough
Phase 4: profit


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## AllKnowing (Nov 5, 2007)

I realize theres a LBS bias on this site but the truth of the matter is the Chinese are starting to focus more and more on quality. The Chinese/dept store manufactures are putting out some very nice Aluminum work. Its only a matter of time before higher end bike manufactures move their operations to China or buy most of their parts from China like EVERYTHING else. The quality gap is rapidly shrinking, everytime time i go to walmart i see jumps in initial quality. Last time i went i saw a $99 Mongoose MTB that was improved. Coming soon Chinese carbon fiber bikes i guarantee it.


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## Fivedays (Aug 15, 2007)

Hey All Knowing, before you start throwing your dogma around all over the site, try getting your facts straight. The Chinese already produce carbon fiber bikes. The Taiwanese have been doing it for years as well. Giant, for example. But the crap you see at Wal-Mart isn't really benefiting from the improvements. Wal-Mart forces all of their vendors to bow to their pricing structure so the quality stays low to meet their margins. Plus, most people who buy department store bikes are casual users who ride on the street or buy for their children. Advocating Wal-Mart bikes for off road is dangerous. So don't do it.


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## DoinkMobb (Nov 17, 2007)

Fivedays said:


> Advocating Wal-Mart bikes for off road is dangerous. So don't do it.


Well, hold on.

I'm pretty sure I can take my Target bike down my completley flat, utterly tame local FL trail without endangering myself. If my bike was a fancy name brand, I would be no safer.

I would not take my bike down a rock strewn mountain at breakneck speed though. Even if you do that on a name brand bike, there's still a high margin for exploding your face on a rock. I could see how the brakes on a Walmart bike would fade much quicker than a high quality disc setup, but that's in extreme cases, which 99% of the beginner off roaders out there won't see.

I'm not saying Walmart (or Target) has high quality bikes, but I'm pretty sure they would stand up to the rigors up a beginner riding on bunny trails.


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## Fivedays (Aug 15, 2007)

There's a reason why you don't take your Saturn Vue on the Rubicon Trail. It may look like a sport ute but it's really not made to do anything more serious than zip down fireroads.


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## DoinkMobb (Nov 17, 2007)

Fivedays said:


> There's a reason why you don't take your Saturn Vue on the Rubicon Trail. It may look like a sport ute but it's really not made to do anything more serious than zip down fireroads.


That makes sense, I'll agree with you there. My dept store bike may resemble a real bike, but it's also not designed for any serious off road stuff.


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## MarcosMyors (Oct 7, 2007)

if you can save up just go to your lbs and buy a decent entry level bike. i did this after much research and help from here and ended up getting a trek 4300 which i love


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

One consideration that I haven't seen mentioned yet is resale value. If you get a quality bike like Trex or Specialized, chances are you can throw it up on Craigslist and get at least $150-200 for it a year down the road when you've out grown it. With department store rigs, you would have trouble getting $50 for a 1 year old bike.


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## TekkBkr (Sep 25, 2007)

I always tell some one when they are thinking of getting into the sport to first buy a used bike or if you do go to your large bulk store that bike will last a year or so. Do not worry about replacing the parts unless it breaks. Ride it for all its worth if you find yourself getting into it and wanting to push the trails then yeah you will want to spend a few bucks at the LBS. I started off on a fair FS bike and blew out the rear shock my first ride. Of course it was a 4 foot drop and I like to push it a little. I also had to replace the BB as well. I ended up selling it to a friend and Now I have upgraded to a Gary Fischer and I am going to start XC racing in the spring. No sense on spending a lot of cash if it is going to collect dust I say. If your hooked a good bike does make a difference.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

I went from a peice of $hit jamis hardtail for like $500, To my Pro Mongoose, i will never again buy a bike for under 2000, unless its a good used dirt jump bike for maybe 1500. My mongoose is about 2100 and its amazing, really worth the money you spend. I am 17 and work part time and with school saved for two and a half years...got the 08 mongoose black diamond double with some upgrades, got my the "Works" on my 66.


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## bullseyeguy (Dec 28, 2007)

*What is your expectation?*

Everyone has a different perspective on what they want out of the things that they purchase.
For me, this can be defined differently for different products...sometimes I am willing (and expecting) to buy a piece of junk because I don't need to get much out of it, but I still want the "thing".
When it came to my bike, I wanted quite a bit more out of it. One thing that I hate to do is to buy something that is junk, and then get alot less enjoyment out of it. In the past I have bought cheap stuff, only to replace it several times "upgrading" until I eventually get to the better stuff. 
I would also hesitate to go out and buy the most expensive bike that you can find, until you are skilled or experienced enough to appreciate the traits of the higher priced bike. The extra money that you spend will not really get you much after a certain point.

Newbie's rule of thumb: Buy one that is a little bit better or more expensive than you think that you actually need. You will be much happier with the product, and your abilities will improve with the better equipment. Buy something less and you will probably wish that you had something more.

Still a newbie.


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## emmaus28 (Nov 2, 2005)

kitsapfreerider said:


> I went from a peice of $hit jamis hardtail for like $500, To my Pro Mongoose, i will never again buy a bike for under 2000, unless its a good used dirt jump bike for maybe 1500. My mongoose is about 2100 and its amazing, really worth the money you spend. I am 17 and work part time and with school saved for two and a half years...got the 08 mongoose black diamond double with some upgrades, got my the "Works" on my 66.


Gee your a god....


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

Don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but a good idea is to get the lowest component level of a particular model, where the frame is the same as the models costing hundreds more, then just upgrade parts as and if your needs change. The parts on the bottom level bike from any of the major quality brands (Trek, Specialized, Giant, not Magna) will still be decent and serve you for a few years or better of average newbie riding.

Once you get hooked, upgrading and tweaking your bike becomes almost as fun as riding it, unless you're stuck trying to put Spinergy wheels on a Huffy.


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## EggsnBacon (Mar 12, 2007)

I remember my first real bike, it was a fully rigid cannondale that was one of the first bikes to come out with the new larger diameter tubing, My dad got it for me when I was 9. I raced on that for 6 years. I even won a DH race on it, and the other kids were riding the brand new 5" travel GT bikes. I remember the price back then was just under $500, which was a lot for a mtn bike especially for a kid my age, but it was well worth it in the long run.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

I kinda rushed thru most of the post.
I am fairly new to mt. biking. skills that is. 
my first fs bike was expensive because f/s bike were new then '87, however it had cheap parts. the crank had steel chain rings. forks had elastomer bumpers with no dampening. and it was heavy. the steel chain on steel rings wear our twice as fast as the allowy chaing rings and was much harder to pedal. the shock allowed the bike to bob and waste energy. (it was very slow) 

for the newbes, if you intend to ride a lot get a bike that has full alloy components, you can get a really nice hard tail for around 5 to 7 hundred. 

Those Wall mart bikes are probably throwaways. so if you only want a bike for riding to school and to the store, theses will be perfect. 

yes I have had throw away bikes, sold them or they were stolen. that's another story all together. 

just ride, then you will know what you will need.

later 
wn


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## Tibursio (Feb 2, 2008)

I started riding regularly in 05. For a semi-new rider and one who has ridden a few dept store bikes ($150-$170)(all of which were trashed within 3 months)... I'd have to tell anyone getting their first mtb or even someone just getting back into riding.... Avoid the dept store bikes at all cost, they just fall apart in a blink. Or if you plan on getting one, plan on frustration and broken parts. That is unless you ride at less than 15 mph and avoid every nook and cranny you can. As for buying a cheap-o FS... what a waist of energy, your butt may feel better.... but it'll make you hate riding up a hill.

I didn't ride for a year after my third dept store bike broke and I gained a lot of lbs, I was drinking soda like crazy and eating unhealthy again. I hadn't noticed the change that my daily riding had on me.

3-4 months ago I got a Kona Fire Mountain ($500) from a far away LBS (close one only sells Trek & Specialized... I wanted a Kona). It was a hell of a lot lighter than the three I got from the dept stores. And I love having the disc brakes (reasoning for not getting the Kona Lana'i). I've had my problems. I pedal very hard and fast and I'll jump any curb before I slow down or go around it.... Within two months I bent a chainring from pedaling too hard I guess.... I also ripped off a pedal from laying the bike over on black ice.

Last week a guy turned in front of me and I slammed into the side of his SUV at about 20mph. To my surprise, my worst wreck of all, and my bike was less damaged than the cheap-o dept store bikes were from every day riding. Yeah my wheel and seat were destroyed but that's to be expected when a MTB broadsides an SUV... But my drive train, my brakes, my rotors, my forks, brake levers, shifters, etc.... Everything else is in perfect condition. Hell, my rear wheel is still true.

I wanted to know if anyone would recommend a different bike for me being 230+ lbs, but I'm guessing suggestions are going to be in the $1000's price range and I'm limited to approx. $700 right now. So I figured just upgrading most the components on this bike would be the best idea for now, if anyone has advice, PM me.


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## reserverockhopper (Dec 30, 2007)

If funds are an issue and you consider buying based on price, avoid the Wal-mart, Target stuff. None of these stores carry bikes with brand components. Find a local Performance bike store. There you can find affordable entry level bikes. They also can carry some high end products but for the most part, you can get more quality than Wal-Mart. You can still save and get a pretty good deal on an entry level Mongoose, Iron Horse or GT. If you spend less than $500 on a MTB bike, you'll be upgrading soon. 

Mongoose Otero at Performance is a good value at around $700. Full suspension, hydrollic disc brakes, Sram X-5 shifters and drive train.


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## warrior215 (Aug 24, 2007)

Don't make the same mistake I did. I went out and bought a cheap "Honda" that i thought would be fine for me. WRONG!!!:madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: I thought i only go off road alittle so I bought it at $150. I rode the first 2 yrs. on it mostly on rad and thought it was fine. Then I went off the pavement. Beat the CRAP out of it. Forks and shocks went, pedals broke, and the shifters fell apart. That Was when i dedcided to get my Warrior. Night and Day diffrence. You may think your bike is fine. I'm telling you first hand, good a little on the expensive side or don't go at all. It pays to have a bike that doesn't break apart when you land...:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

-Dan


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## jasonw (Sep 13, 2004)

Wow the last post I made on this topic on this forum was in 05 it looks like. Anyway just wanted to pop in and say hi. Yes unfortunately I am still riding the same bike and fortunately it is still working just fine. I do admit I don't get a chance to ride it anymore as much as I would like but oh well such is life.


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

I'll admit, I started out with a Toys R Us bike. That was all I could afford at the time, of course I was 16/17...ish. I honestly can't remember. I do remember riding with buddy from high school and we hit whatever we could get to with either my old pick-up truck or we could peddle to. 

I did that off and on until a month after I hit 20, when I enlisted in the Army. Two summers later I was able to get back to riding, but I decided to invest in a real bike. Of course, the fact that my brother decided to take my cheap bike and ship off to Germany, helped push me towards buying a better bike; which was a DB Sorrento. I rode that for a few years before up-grading again. Either way, even thou 2 years had passed the memory of how rough and heavy the Toys R Us bike was really never faded and I remember being amazed at the difference.


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## Energetik (Feb 7, 2008)

Not directed at anyone in particular. Just some words from one in the trenches so to speak.

I work for Dick's Sporting Goods as a tech. I do my best to know what the hell I'm talking about, and be the best I can for my customers. I'm finding that hard to do when the company rep gets trashed by morons who are just there for a paycheck. Also the fact that the store doesn't train you for **** doesn't help. I've found several errors in the training manual and currently it refers to 2 books that are currently out of date. One of which has been so since 1999. My point? Go to a real shop if you want real advice. I do my best, but I'm learning as I go. 

Some of the better Diamondbacks aren't bad at my store though for starting out. If you want a decent (not great) starter HT then the DB Response line isn't bad.($320 to around $699 aprox) The Sport is OK, and the Comp is better. (wish my store had that one) Stay far away from the Iron Horse Maverick 4.2 FS! That design is not a good one. The Warrior 1.3 is good place to start. Not sure about the '08 yet, but the black '07 has a pretty decent frame that has plenty of room for upgrades. (better than the 06 model. Good luck find a der hanger for that one! IHBC sent me the wrong one 4 times in a row) 

I started out on a crappy Mongoose Rockadile Steel rigid. I upgraded that thing relentlessly. It went from a rigid threaded headset to a threadless 100mm fork. (funny looking) It became a 24spd. I put an external crankset on it with deore xt components...etc.

I finally scored a 2007 Cannondale Caffeine 3 frame a few weeks ago. I'm waiting for my headtube adapter and some brake pads, but its already a huge upgrade. I much prefer doing things myself, but I've talked with a guy at a local shop several times for advice. And of course I'm here, and have read every dusty tome I could get my hands on. 

So not all the bikes at an average Dick's Sporting Goods are terrible. None are great unless you get to a 'Halo', or 'A+' level store and find DB Mission 1s. (not bad, not extraordinary either) Not all the techs are morons, although I'm a bit biased speaking of myself. And last but not least... Ya gotta start somewhere. I can't count how many miles I put on that funky looking Mongoose setup. (Or how many hills I died on because of the weight and geometry!) We can't all ride high end Intenses, or Santa Cruzes. Love too, but I'm a poor guy with a basement bike workshop and nothing more. 

It's all good, just know what you've got, and what it, and you, are capable of. :thumbsup:


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

I can recommend the felt 720 hard tail, I test it and it was fast, I weigh in at almost 200 the bike is 27 lbs. looks realy nice. 
The new top of the line 2008 KHS bikes are improved very much this year. Ive had not so good luck with the Specialized M4 hard tail, they are expensive and the components on my bike werer not so good. I think they have improved the line since 1999 but once was enough for me. If your Kona was that good and sturdy, go back to Kona! These are good bikes. WheelWorld is having close out on Kona 2007 FS allmount bikes! I personally can speak for them as I Purchase my KHS AM 2000 there. the Service is beyond top notch, the bike is super heavy duty and can take any punishment I can give it.


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## Ka_Jun (Oct 1, 2007)

Energetik said:


> Not directed at anyone in particular. Just some words from one in the trenches so to speak.
> 
> I work for Dick's Sporting Goods as a tech. I do my best to know what the hell I'm talking about, and be the best I can for my customers. I'm finding that hard to do when the company rep gets trashed by morons who are just there for a paycheck. Also the fact that the store doesn't train you for **** doesn't help. I've found several errors in the training manual and currently it refers to 2 books that are currently out of date. One of which has been so since 1999. My point? Go to a real shop if you want real advice. I do my best, but I'm learning as I go.
> 
> ...


Nice post.:thumbsup:


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## ubp9999 (Feb 27, 2008)

OK, I've been wanting to get a decent bike for years now and I finaly decided to get serious about it.
So here's the situation.
I have an old Mongoose XR-250 that I purchased back in 2003.
What I want to know is:
is it worth trying to upgrade some of the parts or just look into getting a new bike.
The parts I was looking are as follows:
switching to front(and possible rear) disk brakes
better front and rear wheels and tires
Trigger shifter gear system
and maybe:
a new front fork
a better rear shock

This is not the new (2007/2008) XR 250
it has a front fork that has a mount bracket for a disk brake but no disk brake installed
it has a more or less basic rear suspension
it has above average wheels and tires but nothing near pro grade

I don't have money to burn but would consider spending under say $1000

so Im asking for advice here, what are your expert opinions.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

Don't wast your money upgrading your current bike.
for $1000 you can get a very nice hard tail and an entry levey f/s bike.
Check out the Mongoose full Suspenson bikes. I believe it is called the Tocalli. or something like that.


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

I agree with naga. Don't waste your money upgrading. Check out your local shops, see what they are trying to clear out of their inventory. Everyone should have the '08s out on display by now, so I would imagion the '07s (and if they have any '06s left) could be a steal of a deal.


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

ubp9999 said:


> OK, I've been wanting to get a decent bike for years now and I finaly decided to get serious about it.
> So here's the situation.
> I have an old Mongoose XR-250 that I purchased back in 2003.
> What I want to know is:
> ...


Guaranteed any shock you look at is going to be worth more than that frame. And seeing how old it is, I wouldn't doubt that with any amount of real riding, it would fail.

You're definitely best off taking your money and buying a new bike.

EDIT: If you really want a full-susser, you might consider trying to find a Specialized FSR XC on close-out. Should fit right in your budget.


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## KevinBicycle (Mar 20, 2008)

I pieced this bike together 10 years ago and have put on thousands of miles. 
Seating position is similar to a Hybrid/Comfort bike..
1996 Clearance DSB Steel Rigid MTN Bike frame
Rigid Fork (chro-moly)
Shimano SIS Front / Rear Derailers
Shimano Twist Index Shifting "Quick Shift Grips"
3 Piece Crankset
24 / 34 / 42 Chainset Gears
14-28 Thread on Hub 6 Speed Cassette
Center-Pull Rim Brakes
MudTrax 26"x1.75" Tires
ARAYA 26" Aluminum Rims
Chrome-Moly Axles (Spindles)
Aluminum Stem (Gooseneck)
Steel Seat Post
Steel Handle Bars ~\__/~
Mongoose Anatomic Velo Gel Seat
Black Aluminum Rear Rack
PTI Lights 
6v 3w Dynamo
4.8V 10000mAh NiMH battery pack
PTI Air Pump
Brinks U Lock
2 water bottle holders
Cheapo set of pedals
36lbs total without U Lock, so kind of heavy for a rigid, but that hasn't been a problem for me.
(I'm going to be adding fenders soon.)
I purchased the bike for the frame and the forks..It was a clearance deal. The bicycle looked like it was sitting outside for a couple of years, the tires were rotted and rims were bent really bad. Everything else was rusted.
Ten years later, thousands and thousands of miles. This is still a great low cost, high quality bicycle. Ever since I pieced together this bicycle, I have only had to replace regular wear parts: worn tires, brake pads, bearings, chains, etc... I'm only on my second rear gear cassette after the free wheel wore out (free wheel is in the gear cassette). I ride on street, off road trails, single track and everywhere.
So yes, it is possible to have a quality dependable DSB. This is a DSB that has LBS components, so If you purchase a DSB and parts break or wear out, simply upgrade broken or worn parts with new parts from a LBS or online and keep putting on the miles.
Every year the DSB seem to be getting higher quality components and lower pricing.
I think it's silly how some members on these forums have snappy snooty poor immature attitudes about DSB. LOL, It's goofyt. Maybe it's the "my bicycle is better than your bicycle" childish thing? No offense, unless your that kind of person.
Everyone should just be happy about people choosing to ride bicycle instead of driving down the L. I. E. 
I think that bicycling is the transportation of the future, and you can have the future now.

Have fun and ride on.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

my coworker used to ride reclaimed bikes such as the one you have. and he called it his baby. 

my only problem with the steel drive train is that it wears out about 3 to times as fast as as a drive train with allowy sprockets on the crank. you have to replace everything the cassette, crank sprocket and chain. and the mild steel parts will bend easily. 

I used to ride a semi clunker to commute to work. I am sorry to say after riding this bike for a few years I fell for the hype about the new lighter and faster new model bikes. I bought a couple of high priced corporate bikes that never really lived up to what the manufacturer claimed they were. I have a penchent for shiney paint jobs and polished alloy parts. Now that everything has gone semi gloss black, I don't get so excited anymore.

I grew up in the inner city, and have to have my bling!


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## KevinBicycle (Mar 20, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> my coworker used to ride reclaimed bikes such as the one you have. and he called it his baby.
> 
> my only problem with the steel drive train is that it wears out about 3 to times as fast as as a drive train with allowy sprockets on the crank. you have to replace everything the cassette, crank sprocket and chain. and the mild steel parts will bend easily.
> 
> ...


Hardened steel chainset gears wear out 3 times faster than aluminum alloy gears? I thought it would be the other way around. I have aluminum Shimano Biopace chainset gears on a Miyata, but have barely rode it, so haven't any gear wear comparison. I always thought that the hardened steel gears last longer than the aluminum, but add more weight to the drive train.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

Hardened steel gears sounds as though it would wear longer, however hardened chainset movement against another hardence steel sprocket does not make an ideal bearing surface. aluminum to to steel would be better because the aluminum is softer, actually bronze would be the ideal bearing. ( for instance the main bearing in an gasoline engine, the races are hardend steel and the plain bearings are a much softer babbit alloy.)


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

KevinBicycle said:


> . I have aluminum Shimano Biopace chainset gears on a Miyata, but have barely rode it, so haven't any gear wear comparison.


Hey, I just realized I had one of the Miyata's with the biospaced cranksets. It was silver one with gold accents, nice bike! keep a eye on the forks. I remember looking down as I stood on the pedals and seeing the forks flex. I was a lot younger and had much more power in those days. lol.


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## KevinBicycle (Mar 20, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> Hardened steel gears sounds as though it would wear longer, however hardened chainset movement against another hardence steel sprocket does not make an ideal bearing surface. aluminum to to steel would be better because the aluminum is softer, actually bronze would be the ideal bearing. ( for instance the main bearing in an gasoline engine, the races are hardend steel and the plain bearings are a much softer babbit alloy.)


Thank you nagatahawk, this information is much appreciated and very interesting. I think I'll be making a switch the next time the gears wear down.

Also, I've been researching FS mountain bikes. When I make the selection and purchase one, I'm going to put some street tires on my current rigid and keep putting the miles on. So I'll be replacing those gears again someday.

Thanks again for the good info


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## jToad (Mar 17, 2008)

after reading all these posts I'd just like to add in that not all "box stores" are crap as far as assembly and quality. I've been working at one now for 5+ years and we do an excellent job at assembly. I'm a person who was just looking for extra money and started working there because they gave me the two nights a week that I wanted, I've been riding road and mountain bikes for 20 years now and have had my fair amount of experience working on bikes. 

anyway, you can tell when you walk in and talk to someone working at the store if they know what they are talking about or not, at our store every bike is adjusted and gone over completely with the customer...if that is not the case like at walmat and target then just walk out because you will end up and another shop in less than a week getting adjustments.

from my experience I'd try to stay away from mongoose, ironhorse, or any store brands...Diamondback has been solid in the 5 years I've been selling them and they offer bikes around the $230 range (Diamondback Response) that would fair quite well on trails (granted they are a little heavy). if you are really looking to buy a bike to trail ride with then stay away from any FS bikes at these stores as they will be 40+ lbs and not be good quality, the same goes for most low priced bikes with disc brakes...they look cool but most of the time a bike with rim brakes will have significant stopping power over a cheap set of discs

just my 2 cents...i'm not trying to start anything. if there is someone in the buffalo area looking for a bike send me a message and if i can't help you out at my store i've got a bunch of good places that can


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## Rampage (Apr 26, 2005)

jToad,

I doubt anyone would disbelieve your claim that you do a fine install/assembly. But you have to take a less personal stance on this. First and foremost, most Wallie World type employees are not working there because they have skills, they are working there because no place with higher pay would hire them. And this is consistent for most department stores. Most dept store employees know diddily about how to fit a bike for a person, it is all generalized. The point most posters here have been making is that you can get a quality bike, fit, and a maintenance plan for a little more than your average Dept Store charges. If all you do is ride your bike around the block and through your neighborhood, then a one-bike-fits-all kind of purchase may be fine for you. But if you ever want to get off the pavement on a more serious mission, you'll want to get something better. Right tool for the right job. No one is saying you must purchase a bike-store bike over a Dept Store bike, but you'll never know the difference in quality until you do. In most cases, a medium quality purchase allows you to put some depth into what quality is. And then you find yourself buying better and better. So, we have tried to convey a message that the quality you should be looking at, is not generally found in a Dept Store purchase. No disrespect or anything, but I just don't see your store giving me a tune up in a year after I make a purchase from it. I just don't see your fellow employees offering me upgrade advice on which wheels work best for what terrain I'm riding. Seriously, a Dept Store bike is about $200, and a LBS bike of similar components may run you another $30. But the service, the packages, and expertise you get from the LBS will be worth every cent of that $30.


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## BagoXCAlum99 (Apr 2, 2008)

When I was in college, I bought a $90 Schwinn at WalMart and it served me well and I was planning on passing on to my g/f. Took it out yesterday to make sure everything was working alright, and the deraileur fell apart! I took a closer look and it looks like a large part of it was press fit together. I maintained it and kept everything lubed and tight. Not the best quality, but for what I paid and the miles I put on it, it served its purpose.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

I owned a $150 full suspension Target store bike that I rode for 4 years on hard core single tracks and rough fire rodes. I'm 230 lbs. The bike took all I threw at it, I never even replaced the chain. Finally it was stolen. It didn't shift as well as my new bike with an XT drive train, obviously, and was heavier for sure. But, all this crap I read around here by the name brand snobs, "a dept bike won't last a year till it falls to pieces" is nonsense. If you only want to spend $200, do it!! Don't let the bike snobs get you down trying to justify their $2400 purchase. If you aren't happy uness you spend big $'s, well, then spend big $'s. I suspect many riders would be very happy on a lower end mass produced bike.


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

Starkonian said:


> I owned a $150 full suspension Target store bike that I rode for 4 years on hard core single tracks and rough fire rodes. I'm 230 lbs. The bike took all I threw at it, I never even replaced the chain. Finally it was stolen. It didn't shift as well as my new bike with an XT drive train, obviously, and was heavier for sure. But, all this crap I read around here by the name brand snobs, "a dept bike won't last a year till it falls to pieces" is nonsense. If you only want to spend $200, do it!! Don't let the bike snobs get you down trying to justify their $2400 purchase. If you aren't happy uness you spend big $'s, well, then spend big $'s. I suspect many riders would be very happy on a lower end mass produced bike.


Consider yourself lucky.


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## CougarTrek (Jan 27, 2007)

Starkonian said:


> I owned a $150 full suspension Target store bike that I rode for 4 years on hard core single tracks and rough fire rodes. I'm 230 lbs. The bike took all I threw at it, I never even replaced the chain. Finally it was stolen. It didn't shift as well as my new bike with an XT drive train, obviously, and was heavier for sure. But, all this crap I read around here by the name brand snobs, "a dept bike won't last a year till it falls to pieces" is nonsense. If you only want to spend $200, do it!! Don't let the bike snobs get you down trying to justify their $2400 purchase. If you aren't happy uness you spend big $'s, well, then spend big $'s. I suspect many riders would be very happy on a lower end mass produced bike.


Define "hard core singletrack".

My $150 "full suspension" (that might as well have been rigid) target bike was basically trash after 10 weeks of riding 2miles or less per day on PAVEMENT (grant it was trash to begin with, but it got much worse). I never crashed it, never took it off road, maintained it reasonably well, etc. I would never, I repeat, never trust one on even the tamest of singletrack. My bike came with a warning "not intended for offroad use"...

That's not nonsense, it's first hand experience. It's not justifying a $2400 bike purchase or saying you need to spend that kind of money. It's saying you can get a MUCH better, safer, more dependable bike EVEN if your price range is around $200.

Just because it seems you got lucky does not mean the rest of us here are talking out of our rear-ends, don't have any experience with this "quality" of bike, or are "bike snobs". It also does not mean that you got the absolute best bike you could have at that price range simply because it didn't fall apart on you.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

CougarTrek said:


> Define "hard core singletrack".
> 
> My $150 "full suspension" (that might as well have been rigid) target bike was basically trash after 10 weeks of riding 2miles or less per day on PAVEMENT (grant it was trash to begin with, but it got much worse). I never crashed it, never took it off road, maintained it reasonably well, etc. I would never, I repeat, never trust one on even the tamest of singletrack. My bike came with a warning "not intended for offroad use"...
> 
> ...


I rode/ride many of the parks in the Santa Cruz mountains in the San Fran bay area. Rock strewn, 2000' decent single tracks etc. I also often rode off trail on abandoned fire roads, full of debris etc. 
Did it shift as reliably and smoothly as the higher end bike I now have? No way. Was the suspension as smooth? Nope. Was I doing drops? Nope. It did allow me to ride in a fairly aggressive manor and have lots of fun and always got me home short of a flat tire. 
I can't imagine how crappy your bike must have been to fall apart after two months of sidewalk use. Hell, my schwinn stingray, or whatever the hell it was, I had when I was a kid lasted for years of abuse and trashing.
I see posters bashing each other and their bikes ad nauseum around here because one guys derailer weighs .05 ozs less than the other guys. When someone new to the sport reads this sillyness they think they have to spend $xxxx or their bike will fall apart as they are loading it into the car from the store.
Windsurfing is my main sport and granted I spend more $'s there, but you don't see all this nonsence there. I could sail on old stuff and still have fun. Same goes for Mtn biking.


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## EggsnBacon (Mar 12, 2007)

Starkonian said:


> I see posters bashing each other and their bikes ad nauseum around here because one guys derailer weighs .05 ozs less than the other guys. When someone new to the sport reads this sillyness they think they have to spend $xxxx or their bike will fall apart as they are loading it into the car from the store.
> Windsurfing is my main sport and granted I spend more $'s there, but you don't see all this nonsence there. I could sail on old stuff and still have fun. Same goes for Mtn biking.


Thats a load of BS. Beginners aren't stupid. There's always an elite/high-end side of a sport, no matter what it is.


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## KevinBicycle (Mar 20, 2008)

Starkonian said:


> I rode/ride many of the parks in the Santa Cruz mountains in the San Fran bay area. Rock strewn, 2000' decent single tracks etc. I also often rode off trail on abandoned fire roads, full of debris etc.
> Did it shift as reliably and smoothly as the higher end bike I now have? No way. Was the suspension as smooth? Nope. Was I doing drops? Nope. It did allow me to ride in a fairly aggressive manor and have lots of fun and always got me home short of a flat tire.
> I can't imagine how crappy your bike must have been to fall apart after two months of sidewalk use. Hell, my schwinn stingray, or whatever the hell it was, I had when I was a kid lasted for years of abuse and trashing.
> I see posters bashing each other and their bikes ad nauseum around here because one guys derailer weighs .05 ozs less than the other guys. When someone new to the sport reads this sillyness they think they have to spend $xxxx or their bike will fall apart as they are loading it into the car from the store.
> Windsurfing is my main sport and granted I spend more $'s there, but you don't see all this nonsence there. I could sail on old stuff and still have fun. Same goes for Mtn biking.


The people you see bashing each other about their bicycles have coined the term "bike snob". Do a search in your favorite search engine for "bike snob" in quotes. You'll find all kinds of funny stories about these type of people. Do some research on a department store bicycle and they will come out of the woodwork. I'm not trying to sound like an "anti-bike snob", but it's hilarious and I don't think anyone even really totally understands the mentally. Maybe when these people cut others down, they temporarily feel better, from whatever their real problems are. I don't know. I was thinking that a "bike snob" is the anal retentive trendy yuppie hippie type.
No offense to anyone, this is just very funny and an interesting observation.
Since I didn't spend thousands of dollars on my bicycle components, it's probably going to fall apart LOL. Maybe it's unsafe? Wrong!

I bet a "bike snob" could brake something on a lower end bike the first time they rode it. I bet they could brake something on a high end bicycle the first ride as well..

No matter what kind of bicycle you ride, high end or low end, I do advise that you should learn how to repair and adjust everything on it. Good knowledge.
Enjoy riding, and have some fun. "Bike Snobs" too.


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## kitsapfreerider (Nov 26, 2007)

I want to be able to concer anything that is in my way. i now know after riding a cheap bike for 4 years how much better my new bike is. If you are content with a target bike then go right ahead. just dont get in my way when you crack your frame because you did a 2 foot drop to flat. I road a old jamis for to long. if you go the extra mile and spend a little more you will be rewarded. Its like a car some are content with a Geo; in not, i want to drive a celica. you cant give people with cheap bikes crap, as well as dont give people with good bike crap. Just let them find out what they are missing on there own.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

KevinBicycle said:


> I was thinking that a "bike snob" is the anal retentive trendy yuppie hippie type.


That's hillarious!


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

i guess I could be considered a "bike snob." I enjoy the technology and the appearance of some of the better bikes. my road bike has been upgraded from Shimano 105 components to Campagnolo. I used to have a full carbon Giant NRS 1 with cross max wheels. Although I have owned ridden "beater bikes," as soon as I could I replaced it with a better bike. not only do the look better they, are more comfortable and they are faster. This is one of my favorite hobbies and I take pride in my bikes. I would find it difficult to be proud of my old 40 lbs steel frame steel drive train bike that only shifted two gears.

Everyone is free to ride what they enjoy the most. if Walmart is you fav, good for you.
If you buy a high end bike and ride it once, so what.

so If I ride nice bikes, go ahead you can call me a snob.
I also challenge any flamers riding a walmart to go for a ride with me, be it single track or road and try to keep up.


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## Fivedays (Aug 15, 2007)

I don't think there's really anything snobbish about what most people on here are saying about Department Store bikes. Most are not really made to be ridden off road and even have warnings about it. The $60 full suspension bike is probably fine for road but unsafe for hard core off road. I doubt anybody would have anything bad to say about a used $150 90s hardtail off Craigslist. Something with STX or even DX friction thumbshifters is going to be far better than any Wall Mart bike. And it would even be worth upgrading. Buy the right tool for the job.

Just to add. I recently helped a friend find a bike for about $175. It was a 90s Specialized Stumpjumper hardtail made of metal matrix. That was one of those semi exotic aluminum/boron frames Specialized experimented with for a few years. It had LX parts and was in pretty good shape (hubs needed to be repacked, needed a new saddle). He wanted to mainly use it to commute on but at least he has the option of using it off road as well. That's a very nice usable bike for a pretty low price.


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## J. Fragera (Apr 16, 2008)

Hi all,

Another newbie here. This is my first post so please be nice. lol 

I purchased a Target FS special a little over a month ago, and I'm not too dissatisfied overall. I spent about $100, and the idea was to be able to take the kids out for a ride (put them in a kiddie trailer on back  ), blaze a few trails on the property, and generally get a feel for whether I am even going to be interested in going further into this sport. 

So far, I have bent the rear and front wheel, the front suspension is making annoying squeaking noises, flattened the front tire with a thorn, and replaced the saddle to keep from smashing the crotchables into oblivion.

The end result is that even with the sqeaky suspension, wobbly wheels, and all... I have had a blast doing it! I knew before I bought this bike that bikes at the LBS were better, but I really didn't see me dropping 500 bucks on something that I might not get into that much. Now that I know I'm into it, at the end of this month I am going to get a GT Avalanche 3.0 Disc. It seems to have a great frame to build from, and will probably last me for quite a while (with the proper upgrades over time  ). 

So all in all, my $100 has been well spent. More than likely, I will probably continue to use it to haul the kiddies, and will probably will do a bit of ebay'ing and throw some fun stuff on it just to see what I can Frankenstein together to make the snobs snicker and feel better about themselves. 

Just my $.02

P.S. Great site for info! Thanks!


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## CRed (Aug 4, 2007)

Well,after years of buying Wally World bikes for my 10 year old I broke down and went to the LBS and bought him a Trek 820.I just got tired of them lasting one season before they're piles of junk and the 820 was only $100 more then the most expensive Wally World bike.Not only are all the components,while low end to most of us,a ton better,the LB includes a year of warranty service for all repairs.I rode it myself and it really felt good after adjusting everything so I'm sure my son is going to have fun with it and now when we go on a long ride together we don't have to worry about it falling apart.


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## vdubdriver (Apr 16, 2008)

*Schwinn but not schwinn*

I bought a Schwinn from a bike shop. Not a Schwinn at a Dept. Store. It has a frame size and ok components, but there is a few things that needed to be upgraded. I raced 20inchers when i was in high school and now tackle some trails. Dept store bikes are ok, but you can get good stater bikes from a bike shop. There seems to be a fine line with Schwinn, my bike was on there website as an offered model, but you will see lots of Schwinn bikes in the stores that are made by Pacifica? but have the Schwinn name. I think the main thig is to know what you want, and to make sure the frame fits. If you break or bend parts it gives you a reason to upgrade.


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## KevinBicycle (Mar 20, 2008)

vdubdriver said:


> I bought a Schwinn from a bike shop. Not a Schwinn at a Dept. Store. It has a frame size and ok components, but there is a few things that needed to be upgraded. I raced 20inchers when i was in high school and now tackle some trails. Dept store bikes are ok, but you can get good stater bikes from a bike shop. There seems to be a fine line with Schwinn, my bike was on there website as an offered model, but you will see lots of Schwinn bikes in the stores that are made by Pacifica? but have the Schwinn name. I think the main thig is to know what you want, and to make sure the frame fits. If you break or bend parts it gives you a reason to upgrade.


I do believe that all of the Schwinn bicycles are made by Pacific.
Since Schwinn is owned by Pacific Cycle who's parent company is Dorel. http://www.dorel.com/

Pacific Cycle has a few bicycle companies

http://www.gtbicycles.com/

http://www.schwinnbike.com/

http://www.mongoose.com/

http://www.kustomkruiser.com/

In 2001, Schwinn was purchased by Pacific Cycle. 
http://www.pacific-cycle.com/

In 2004 Pacific Cycle was acquired by Dorel Industries.
http://www.dorel.com/
Dorel owns many many companies including http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/


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## KevinBicycle (Mar 20, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> i guess I could be considered a "bike snob." I enjoy the technology and the appearance of some of the better bikes. my road bike has been upgraded from Shimano 105 components to Campagnolo. I used to have a full carbon Giant NRS 1 with cross max wheels. Although I have owned ridden "beater bikes," as soon as I could I replaced it with a better bike. not only do the look better they, are more comfortable and they are faster. This is one of my favorite hobbies and I take pride in my bikes. I would find it difficult to be proud of my old 40 lbs steel frame steel drive train bike that only shifted two gears.
> 
> Everyone is free to ride what they enjoy the most. if Walmart is you fav, good for you.
> If you buy a high end bike and ride it once, so what.
> ...


If you enjoy a high end bicycle, or a nice bicycle, that doesn't make you a "bike snob".
The people you read about bashing each other about their bicycles have coined the term "bike snob". For example: a "bike snob" would try to put another person down by saying, "My bicycle weighs 2grams less than your bicycle, so yours is heavy junk. Time to upgrade". That's probably something the typical "bike snob" would say. Do a search in your favorite search engine for the term "bike snob" in quotes. You'll see.
I've read that "bike snobs" don't wave or say hello on the bicycle trails, but haven't run into any myself.
Enjoy riding no matter what you ride. All bicycles are great! Don't forget to smile when you ride.


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## vdubdriver (Apr 16, 2008)

Just because Schwinn is owned by Pacific does not mean they are made by Pacific. As in most company take overs they original name and manufacturing facility is kept in play. The parent company (in this case Pacific) will take the name of the company bought (Schwinn) and put it on a lower quality product made overseas of at a less quality based facility to improve sales. If you go to Target to by a bike you see Schwinn and Pacific bikes made in the same place and distributed to chain stores. That is why Rangers, Stingrays and any other hookier store bikes can not be found on Schwinn's website. I own a Frontier, a bike that has the same frame as the Mesa. Bottom line don't buy from a Dept store unless you like crap bikes. Schwinn still makes Schwinn bikes but there name is stuck on cheap bikes and this gives them a bad image. Its like a old Hummer H1, made by GM with a Hummer name tag, while a Humvee made for the army is made by AM general. But a partnership with GM allowed you to buy one.


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## tdog69 (Apr 25, 2008)

Newbie here, I have been lurking through this forum and I must say the post saying that large department store's bikes are not very good, not worth the money and plain out suck are completely wrong. The bikes sold at Wal-Mart or any other retail store cannot even be compared to bike shops or customs, that's retarded. That is like me comparing my high compression race ready Cannondale 440 ATV to a stock Suzuki 400 ATV. Apples and Oranges comparison
First off the bikes sold in your department stores are very very good quality bikes for the cost and what they are designed for, your average beginner will not be able to break or do any better on a high quality model. I would highly recommend to a beginner purchasing one of these bikes first prior to even spending over 80 bones on anything else. This way you get your feel for the sport and then if you like it move up to a better bike and pass the department store bike down to someone else to inspire riding in them. This way if you don't like the sport you are not out of a lot of money or giving away your hard earned cash you have in the bike. But hay don't do this if you don't want to, because people like me are going to come along and capitalize on your used expensive bike that you bought for a weekend ride and put it to some real use.​
I have been riding my Next Wal-Mart bike for little over 1 ½ years, mostly flat/semi hill northern PA trails and hard top and there is nothing wrong with the bike. Now though for the last 3 weeks straight I have been conditioning on hard top every day except sat and sun for 3.5 miles of hills and straights at higher speeds and lower gearing on the hills where it makes it very difficult to peddle. I am also running some mildly difficult solo trails through the woods and now I am thinking about hitting some amateur comps and some real difficult rock trails. I realize in these conditions the Wal-Mart bike will not hold up. So I am hoping you guys can give me some guidance on bike manufactures. I am only familiar with GT, Mongoose, Odyssy bikes from back in my freestyle 20" days 18 years ago. I do not want to spend over 500 and I am looking at used bikes, because the bike is going to get beat up, this is just how it is with someone who starts racing you tend to eat dirt alot.
I am familiar with most of the shock, handle bar, tires and fork companies from racing ATVs and MX. I am looking to get a bike that will fare well at high speeds on black top and rough downhill dirt roads. While very stable on the most difficult tight forest trail, but at the same time something that can take a 5 foot drop with a 215lb, "well now 204 at 16%BF", dude on the bike.
I am kind of favoring a small company called Astrix Sports and particularly there Solo or Stryke MT bikes, I am looking to avoid the big name pay for my logo companies like FOX and Cannondale. I have a large university close to me so I have a very nice selection of used top brand name MT Bikes to choose from at pawn shops and bike shops.​
So any guidance would be greatly appreciated


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## tdog69 (Apr 25, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> I also challenge any flamers riding a walmart to go for a ride with me, be it single track or road and try to keep up.


Spoken like a true keyboard warrior, just kidding...

U know crossing the finish line only requires 10% gear and the rest is the rider.


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## Ben12321 (Apr 26, 2008)

just dont even go to walmart for a bike. threre parts are cheap and will break or bend or something, just doing normal offroad riding. Check this out http://www.bicyclefrenzy.com/104/28-reasons-not-to-buy-a-mountain-bike-from-wal-mart/ it sums everything up. last year alone i broke 3 bikes from walmart(older walmart bikes) so i decided enough was enough. i wwent to a "real" bike shop and got a "real" bike, and i couldnt be happier


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

This week end I was at Target and checked out the bicycle department for quality, and prices. They had the Schwin, and all the same name brands as Costco, walmart etc. the prices ranged from 99 to 299. the schwin had some shimano component.( unknown groupo). all the accessories are off brand and very low end quality. My lbs sells predominantly entry level bikes at equal to a litttle higher prices. the components are much better and the bikes don't look like toys. Furthermore, they have very good customer service w/free tune ups. and adjustments. 

The larger bike shops have some killer deals and the smaller bike shops will probably give you better customer service. These observations and evaluations came from my visits to Target, Performance, Helens and Summit ski and cycles. 

I guessing, but the difference between toy bikes and real bikes are that the original parts cannot be replaced on a toy bike.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

tdog69 said:


> Newbie here, I have been lurking through this forum and I must say the post saying that large department store's bikes are not very good, not worth the money and plain out suck are completely wrong. The bikes sold at Wal-Mart or any other retail store cannot even be compared to bike shops or customs, that's retarded. That is like me comparing my high compression race ready Cannondale 440 ATV to a stock Suzuki 400 ATV. Apples and Oranges comparison
> First off the bikes sold in your department stores are very very good quality bikes for the cost and what they are designed for, your average beginner will not be able to break or do any better on a high quality model. I would highly recommend to a beginner purchasing one of these bikes first prior to even spending over 80 bones on anything else. This way you get your feel for the sport and then if you like it move up to a better bike and pass the department store bike down to someone else to inspire riding in them. This way if you don't like the sport you are not out of a lot of money or giving away your hard earned cash you have in the bike. But hay don't do this if you don't want to, because people like me are going to come along and capitalize on your used expensive bike that you bought for a weekend ride and put it to some real use.​
> I have been riding my Next Wal-Mart bike for little over 1 ½ years, mostly flat/semi hill northern PA trails and hard top and there is nothing wrong with the bike. Now though for the last 3 weeks straight I have been conditioning on hard top every day except sat and sun for 3.5 miles of hills and straights at higher speeds and lower gearing on the hills where it makes it very difficult to peddle. I am also running some mildly difficult solo trails through the woods and now I am thinking about hitting some amateur comps and some real difficult rock trails. I realize in these conditions the Wal-Mart bike will not hold up. So I am hoping you guys can give me some guidance on bike manufactures. I am only familiar with GT, Mongoose, Odyssy bikes from back in my freestyle 20" days 18 years ago. I do not want to spend over 500 and I am looking at used bikes, because the bike is going to get beat up, this is just how it is with someone who starts racing you tend to eat dirt alot.
> I am familiar with most of the shock, handle bar, tires and fork companies from racing ATVs and MX. I am looking to get a bike that will fare well at high speeds on black top and rough downhill dirt roads. While very stable on the most difficult tight forest trail, but at the same time something that can take a 5 foot drop with a 215lb, "well now 204 at 16%BF", dude on the bike.
> ...


You might want to take a look at this one, http://www.woodstockbikes.com/707/707.htm. It is on sale now for $699. Good reviews, will handle drops, decent components. You don't want someone's used peice of s***.


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

vdubdriver said:


> Schwinn still makes Schwinn bikes but there name is stuck on cheap bikes and this gives them a bad image. .


If you're implying Schwinn's are made in the USA in the old Schwinn factory, no they're not. If you want an American Schwinn, the closest you can get is to lay down some serious cash for a Waterford.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterford_Precision_Cycles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwinn#Sale_to_Pacific


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*Schwinn clarification*



Rufudufus said:


> If you're implying Schwinn's are made in the USA in the old Schwinn factory, no they're not. If you want an American Schwinn, the closest you can get is to lay down some serious cash for a Waterford.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterford_Precision_Cycles
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwinn#Sale_to_Pacific


Schwinn is owned by Pacific Cycles, which was bought by Canadian Dorel Industries back in 2004. Dorel recently bought Cannondale, FWIW.

http://www.schwinnbike.com/news/press_detail.php?id=30

Jim


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## g-bus (Aug 13, 2007)

Here's my 2¢:
I recently got a side gig assembling bikes for Toys R Us. I've only done this for one day so far, but after the first few bikes I realized why I spent over a grad for an entry level FS. These things are pieces of crap. The fasteners are junk, and the more parts a bike has, the more fasteners it needs, which makes the fasteners all that more important. The bikes weigh a ton, but thats not an issue for everyone. They probably have about 60 lbs of steel in them so you could drop them off a cliff and the frame would be fine, assuming the welds held, but every component would be toast. Some are aluminum, but ther are lots of grades of aluminum, and aluminum is really weak if its not properly made. The size issue is a big deal if you ride seriously at all, especially if you're an odd size. One of my riding buddies is about 6'4" and he'd look like he was riding a tricycle on a normal Walmart bike. He had to get his ordered from the west coast to get one that fit him.
I get paid by the bike so tuning wasn't really a concern. I basically just tried to make sure everything was as tight as possible and that the brakes work for safety purposes. My bikes are probably a little bit better built than others because I at least have some idea of how a properly functioning bike should be set up. I'd love to get a job at a bike shop and be able to take my time and do quality work on quality bikes, but jobs like that that pay a living wage are hard to come by in this town. 
Just because it says Mongoose or Schwinn doesn't mean its any good. Go to your local bike shop, or even try Ebay. I picked up a Giant for my gf for about $300 and its so much better than any of those Next pieces of crap. Plus they offer free tune ups and a very knowledgeable staff that matched her up with the rigt bike in the right size. I ride in Shenandoah Natl park a lot, which has some pretty nasty rocks and I know the bikes from the box stores would last 3 miles.
Look at it this way, you could spend $200 on some POS from Walmart, then spend another $400 on something half decent from your LBS after the first one takes a crap in 6 months, or save yourself the money and buy something half decent in the beginning and get a bike that will be good for many years of quality riding that you can upgrade without wasting money. Also, there's nothing wrong with a used bike. Some new cables and a tune up can do wonders for an older bike. I know this has all been said before, but it bears repeating.


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## chrisrennau (May 21, 2008)

Be careful buying bikes from large chains. Some large sports chains carry pretty decent bicycles. Dicks Sporting Goods for example has diamondback and Iron Horse bikes. Both are very good. I have been ridding diamondback bikes for 24 years and I will swear by them. How ever unless you know what you are doing you should by that bike from a bike shop heres why:

Bike shop bikes are not necessarily better bikes. about 90% of all boutique brands(trek, Giant,specialized, etc.) come from one of three factories in Asia. Only the frames and sometimes the forks are made in America on bikes like cannondale; the components are Asian. The final quality control that assures you do not get stuck with defective merchandise and that your machine is set up properly comes from the bike shop. Bike shop employees work on bikes all day every day. The department store employees that are building bikes today may have been folding shirts or sweeping floors the day before. Department store managers use whoever is available to assemble bikes. I know I used to be one. Now stores like Dicks do have a bicycle dept supervisor who is supposed to be experienced at what they do. I know the Bicycle dept supervisor at Dicks in my hometown is very good and probably knows more than most bike shop owners. The problem is he is only there 40 hrs a week. If you have a problem with your bike when he is not there you either wait or get inexperience. Bike shops usually always have at least one person available who knows what they are doing. Until you learn what your doing stick with a bike shop. Most bike shops in my area are very competitive with department stores on pricing. Also bikes shops tend to stand behind and service what they sell. Most department stores give you 30 days; then any issues are between you and the manufacturer. The best advice i can give is learn to turn a wrench. Bicycles are simple mechanicle devices; and although the technology improves it does not change that much. Its not that difficult to set up a new bike properly once you learn how to do it. You can save alot of money on repairs and you can take advantage of those good deals on clearance bikes at department stores if you know what your doing.


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## aussiemegs (May 12, 2008)

ok im still a noob but i do know just how crap department store bikes are. I've personally never owned a 'mountain' bike from one but my cousin has and ive ridden it and OMG was it painful! ive also ridden an entry level hardtail and the difference is astounding. Ive currently got my first full suspension rig on order and its a specialized myka expert and trust me im glad ive spent the money. And before anyone comments - im 17 and i dont earn alot so it IS possible to save your money!

now to the person who posted that they can windsurf and ride in old gear. Yeah you can but its not as safe, easy or enjoyable. I know this from experiance in an area other then bikes - just like you say you do. I used to be a state hockey goalie and i had 2 sets of gear. Entry level - which was just so fantastic to get me started and i loved it to bits and it was so many miles ahead of the stuff i used at the club. It was good gear. But its like anything when you start getting serious about something - u need to buy better, safer gear. Which i did and the difference again was astounding! There is nothing wrong with buying cheaper stuff to get started but in saying that not the CHEAPEST stuff - cuz there is a reason its the cheapest! but dont talk up your cheap bike or cheap whatever as equalling the top of the line gear cuz it cant! people spend the money for a reason!

...just my two cents worth


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## RidingData (May 24, 2008)

When I decided to get back into mountain biking, I considered buying a cheapo bike but decided that wasn't a good idea.

Either I would quickly "outgrow" my bike and replace it (thus buying two bikes in a short period of time) or my interest would wan. Regardless which scenario, because cheapo bikes have virtually no resale value where I live, a cheapo bike was pre-destined to be given away or cluttering up my garage.

I did the math and decided cheapo bikes aren't worth it. Remember the real cost of a bike, like a car or a home, is the difference between what you buy it for and what you sell it for.

Cheapo bikes are not fun to ride, they're more likely to breakdown, they are often not worth fixing or tricking out with upgraded components. You'll be fighting your bike and not having as good a time as you should.

There are a lot of better options available on craigslist and ebay. Buy used! Take your time and do your homework. Don't buy the first bike you see. You'll overpay. Monitor the list and auctions for awhile to get a feel for what the bike you want is worth. Get a "sniping software" like Bidwatcher (it's free!) so you actually have a chance to get what you want. There are deals to be had. :thumbsup: 

If you're into tinkering, I recommend buying a bike with the best frame you can afford. I know it's not rocket science. Not only is upgrading components a great way to pimp your ride, your frame will evolve into a bike that is customized for you.

That's what I did. Because it had a good frame worth upgrading, I liked the bike I bought and love the bike it became. Because I paid low market, I know I could sell my bike and get back my investment. Maybe even make a buck or two!

I'm riding a great bike for a fraction of what a cheapo bike would cost me. What's not to like about that?  

That's how I see it.

RD


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## DoinkMobb (Nov 17, 2007)

I still have my Target bike, a super heavy FS rig. I haven't been able to trash it yet - that may be hard to do on the trails around here though. I dunno, it's still functional and gets me out into the woods, so I can't complain too much. 

I guess I'll ride it until it breaks and then upgrade to something better...


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## bschanz (Jun 7, 2008)

*not to bash them*

I won't come forward and say that you should not buy a dept store bike. That is what my first one was. but.. i cheated. it was a diamondback sorrento se. rst front end, low end components. at the time, dick's sporting goods, my employer and the place where I bought it had it hanging in the back room as a fillet. (customer return that could not be resold and subsequently, raped for parts.) I replaced the shifters and derailleurs with sram 3.0 twisties and shimano stx-rc derailleurs. I replaced the cantilever brakes with stx-rc components as well. all of this were take-offs from other bikes. At the time, dick's had a good crew of bike techs and was competivie with l-b-s for service and maintenence. I was a bike tech by the end of my tenure there because i totally submersed myself in the sport. several months later i found a killer deal on an rock shox indy sl. over the years and miles, I never had a problem with any of the upgrades. infact, in replacing the parts that i broke or wore out, the only stock part left is the seatpost. My buddy is riding it now because i bought a new trek 6000.

the question is not are dept store bikes bad, but rather, are they bad for what you are going to do? a commuter, d/s bikes are great. light xc riding, they will survive. heavy riding that i was doing.. not so much.. My fiance has a k2 from the sports authority, where I once worked and offerred to spearhead the bike dept to provide good builds, good tunes and good service and they shot me down. they only care about selling the bike. once the bike leaves and they collect their $$ they do not want to see it again. that was painfully apparent by my short employment there. the k2 for the lady was a mess when I took it home. I put it on the stand, tuned it, adjusted it and it rides great, but it will be a cold day in haydes before I get her in the woods with me so it is perfect for her.

as a beginner, you need to ask yourself what exactly you are going to do with it and then make the decision to buy from there.


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## [email protected] (Jun 18, 2008)

For the record Don't ever buy the cheapest bike that you can, especially in kids bikes. I have worked in a bicycle shop for 4 years now, and have seen several new department store bikes that were scary to think that a kid rode them. Most of the brakes on the cheap kids bikes would barely be able to slow a kid down, I have seen cases where the kid does not have enough strength to make the brakes even start to engage, because of the outdated brake style. Watch out for U brakes at department stores, they look kind of like a c clamp. That style of brake requires a 22 millimeter pull in order to work properly, and in that case they still don't work very well at all. It is hard to find a brake lever with 22 mm of pull any more, because all modern mountain bike brakes have a 32mm pull. So the cheap bike company's use the more common 32mm pull brake lever on the 22mm pull U brake. so you have to pull the lever 50% harder to stop the same way that the brake is suposed to, which is not very good. The only reason these U brakes even exist in the stye that comes on department stores is bacuse they are cheap to stamp out of steel.


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## SimonMW (Mar 12, 2007)

Sometimes you can get lucky. Mostly, to no avail, I have told my friends to make sure they go to a place called Back on Track bikes near to where I live. They really know their stuff and give exceptional advice.

Yet my friends ignore me and usually go to Halfords. They can't see why they should spend a bit more as they do not fully grasp what the difference can be (usually the difference between enjoying riding and not!)

Anyway, one of my friends picked up a front sus hardtail from Halfords and I have to admit that for what he paid for it it wasn't that bad. The frame is fairly light, but solidly built with okay geometry, and even has IS mounts for disc brakes if he wanted to upgrade it on both the forks and the rear on the frame. The front suspension does its job too. I was quite surprised.

Unfortunately I can't say the same for my other friend who went out to Halfords without getting any advice first and bought a really cheap full sus. I don't have the heart to tell him it is rubbish, but it really is an unmitigated disaster!

The front suspension has literally, no word of a lie, 1cm of travel! The forks are designed to look like they should have at least 120mm, but they have this really cleverly disguised limiter hidden behind the rubber shock boot.

The rear suspension is like a wet sponge, and the shifting is abysmal. He was having trouble with the chain coming off on the front on both the granny ring and the large outer. The limiter screws are set up correctly so I can't for the life of me figure out how it is happening. All I can say is that when I went out for a brief ride with him yesterday all I could hear was the gears constantly grinding.

Personally I would stay away from large stores. Halfords sometimes do sell good bikes (actually my local one stocks some pretty well specced Kona's). But in general you simply cannot beat a dedicated shop with assistants who go out and bike in the mountains themselves at the weekend. They know what bike you need, and they will for the most part ensure that you end up purchasing something that will give you full peace of mind that you haven't just been sold something to fulfill a weekly sales quota.


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## ProfessorBrad12 (Jun 16, 2008)

*Iron Horse Warrior 1.3 Newbie*

Despite reading this thread backwards and forwards, I couldn't ignore the $299 Iron Horse Warrior 1.3 at Dick's. I know it's a big box shop "exclusive" but it seems to be sturdy, with better components than similarly priced bikes in the store...From what I gather, the SR Suntour cranks are less than desirable, but for my needs, they seem more than sturdy. The disc brakes are a nice addition, too.

My LBS guy loved it when he saw it, and gave it a tune up and adjustment, but found nothing wrong other than weight (I believe it's 32 lbs)...

My question is: Has anyone had good/bad experiences with this bike? I'm planning on easing into this sport, starting out on bike paths and light trails, and gradually moving forward to more rugged terrain.

Thanks in advance for any help. Literally a rider for two weeks, so pardon the newbisms.


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## Energetik (Feb 7, 2008)

ProfessorBrad12 said:


> Despite reading this thread backwards and forwards, I couldn't ignore the $299 Iron Horse Warrior 1.3 at Dick's. I know it's a big box shop "exclusive" but it seems to be sturdy, with better components than similarly priced bikes in the store...From what I gather, the SR Suntour cranks are less than desirable, but for my needs, they seem more than sturdy. The disc brakes are a nice addition, too.
> 
> My LBS guy loved it when he saw it, and gave it a tune up and adjustment, but found nothing wrong other than weight (I believe it's 32 lbs)...
> 
> ...


I work for Dick's and have built quite a few of these. They're not a bad bike at all for starting out. Especially if you have a solid LBS to take it too. As a tech at Dick's I can tell you that I rarely ever get enough time to really work with my customers as I would like too. (as I would at a a LBS) The frame is solid and well worth upgrading as you go.

You can upgrade the rear derailleur to something like a Deore and be fine. The Altus on the 2008 is a downer, but its functional. The rims are pretty generic and might do ya fine, but lighter ones can be found if you are so inclined. The crank set will work, but it really is pretty generic. You can find an OEM Truvativ crankset dirt cheap on eBay. There are plenty of upgrades that can be done to lighten the bike if you feel like it. Your LBS can help immensely there. First thing I would do is ditch the tires. If you ride XC/mountain then they suck. They're generic Maxxis Ignitor knock offs without the grip that makes the Maxxis tires great. I am going to pick up a set of WTB Exiwolf tires myself. Again your LBS can help with suggesting specific tires for your area, and ride style.

its not a bad package at all. The 2007 was better equiped, but the 2008 is a good entry into the sport.


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## ProfessorBrad12 (Jun 16, 2008)

Many thanks. I took it out on some (very) light trails last night, and it was better than fine. I don't foresee myself becoming a hardcore XC guy, but I want something that can absorb more than just cracks in the pavement.

I look forward to upgrading. Seems like that's where a lot of the fun is.

Thanks again!


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## buffgato (Jun 18, 2008)

Dept store bikes are for kids and casual riders. Take the good stuff to the mountains!

Just over a year ago, I was riding an old Walmart bike around town, taking that sucker on 25+ mile rides and basically beating the junk out of it. Just about everything on that bike was broken or rusted by the time I got done with it, and I had to re-adjust the shifting and brake components about every other week because they couldn't hold for nothing, even with easy riding. I got so tired of adjusting it all the time that I just gave up on the thing and, wouldn't you know, it wasn't more than a week or two before I couldn't shift above first gear. Ridiculous. Then I bought a $600 Gary Fisher. Riding that thing home from the store, I remember thinking, "I didn't know riding a bike could be like THIS!" It was the smoothest, sweetest ride I had ever taken. I didn't want to get off the thing. I took it on a long ride that very day.

Now, a year later, I'm still riding my Fisher and haven't had a single problem with it. I certainly beat it up more than I ever did my old bike. It's been on all kinds of rocky, dirty, dusty terrain, in all kinds of places. I'm careful to take care of it, keeping it clean and greased up. Adjusting things as necessary. Works like a dream. I'm satisfied, but I can't help drooling over the full-suspension bikes just a few dollars higher. Someday, someday.

My recommendations:

--If you plan on using your bike as a *reliable* form of transportation, don't be cheap. I went for the good stuff because I'm in college, and I don't have a car. My bike is my car. I ride it to work, I ride it to the mall, I ride it to the grocery store (and, most importantly, I ride it to the mountains and go play). If it breaks down, I walk to work. I walk to the mall. I walk to the grocery store. My old bike had me walking or hitching rides more often than I liked. Just don't do it. If you need reliable, buy reliable.

--If you plan on using your bike as a mountain bike, don't be cheap. Unless you really like carrying heavy frames up and down hills, the last place you want to be broken down is on the side of a mountain. You might be able to fix some basic things on the trail, but the components on cheap bikes are just not built for the wear-and-tear of riding on rocky trails. Even casual mountain biking can be very rough on the frame and components. Just don't do it. If you need a mountain bike, buy one that can take the punishment.

It's really not that expensive. And you can always get a side job, right?


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## mario23 (Jun 22, 2008)

Well here's my noob story...

I rode road bikes for years, but after I hurt my back, the road cycle was torture for me so I had to give it up. I gave my old Cannondale to my brother-in-law. I missed it so I thought I would give mountain biking a try. Since I wasn't sure, I just got a Schwinn S25. It was decent for an entry level bike so to speak. I rode and rode and found that I had NO back problems with it so now I'm hooked 

I've already upgraded the wheels/tires and cartridge. I put Avid BB5s on the front and back and of course my trusty Shimano 520s (I know...not the most exotic but, besides my old Looks, they have always worked reliably and the adjustability is a must for me).

So now I think with all the parts I'm buying, I would like to buy a frame and build it up with some of the components I've already got along with others. I'm trying to decide between HT and FS and what the best frame options are out there so I'll be researching on here of course. My LBS is fantastic. I wish I found them before I bought this tryout bike but I know that's where I'll go from now on. Anyone in South FLA need bike stuff, check out Jim's Bikes in Deerfield!!!

I'm counting on those of you more knowledgeable than I to help guide me in the right direction as far as what frame to get or if building frame up is even my best option...
I think I would enjoy the build but hey...I'm still learning.

Thanks in advance for any advice you all may have...


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## Bikingdaily (Jan 25, 2008)

I'm 18 about 5'7 200 lbs. i used to ride when i was a kid and decided to get into it again. i really dont know much but i am trying to get a bike to ride trails and other stuff. i have about $850 and am almost likely gonna get the Rockhopper disc 29er. is that a bad idea?


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## brad0022 (Jun 23, 2008)

*Bikes at Dick's or Sports Authority*

Sorry if this has already been asked but I didnt have the time to read all post. Im a beginner and researching for the best bike for my money. I dont want to make a bad buy but 300 is a bit out of my budget at the moment. I can do 200 the highest. Ideally I would like something worth it for 15-175. Ok so are the bikes at Dicks and Sports Authority junk too. I found one at Dicks for 189. It was a Quest. Never heard of that. They do carry Mongoose, Diamond Back and Ironhorse. They do carry expensive bikes too. I cant remember what Sports Authority carried.

Any way, should I start out with one from either store in my budget or save up for a 300 Raleigh that I saw at a bike shop? I dont remember the model. Im impatient but I dont want to rush into a bad buy.


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## wilheldp (Jun 7, 2008)

brad0022 said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked but I didnt have the time to read all post. Im a beginner and researching for the best bike for my money. I dont want to make a bad buy but 300 is a bit out of my budget at the moment. I can do 200 the highest. Ideally I would like something worth it for 15-175. Ok so are the bikes at Dicks and Sports Authority junk too. I found one at Dicks for 189. It was a Quest. Never heard of that. They do carry Mongoose, Diamond Back and Ironhorse. They do carry expensive bikes too. I cant remember what Sports Authority carried.
> 
> Any way, should I start out with one from either store in my budget or save up for a 300 Raleigh that I saw at a bike shop? I dont remember the model. Im impatient but I dont want to rush into a bad buy.


My suggestion for a budget that small is to check Craigslist for your area to see if you can get a good deal on a Trek 4300 (or better) or maybe a Cannondale or Gary Fisher. I have seen some of those bikes going for $200 or slightly above in my area.


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## br549er (Jul 7, 2008)

I picked up a Mongoose Metric at Dick's last summer for around $125. So far I like the bike though the shifting has been quite bad needing several adjustments. The brakes also arent to great. Love the suspension! Any thought on some new derailleurs for this bike or any thoughts or experiences others have had with this bike? Thanks for a great forum I am new to the sport and plan on spending alot of time pouring thru these.


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## MarcosMyors (Oct 7, 2007)

br549er said:


> I picked up a Mongoose Metric at Dick's last summer for around $125. So far I like the bike though the shifting has been quite bad needing several adjustments. The brakes also arent to great. Love the suspension! Any thought on some new derailleurs for this bike or any thoughts or experiences others have had with this bike? Thanks for a great forum I am new to the sport and plan on spending alot of time pouring thru these.


DO NOT UPGRADE!!!!! this is a junk bike you will hate yourself for wasting more money on it just save some cash and go to the lbs and let them help you find what you like and need


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

MarcosMyors said:


> DO NOT UPGRADE!!!!! this is a junk bike you will hate yourself for wasting more money on it just save some cash and go to the lbs and let them help you find what you like and need


Although I agree it doesn't make much sense to spend a lot of cash upgrading this bike, your comment calling this guy's bike "junk" is ignorant.

My advise is, when you decide you want an upgrade, go to the local bike shop and look around. Then get on the internet and research and shop around. Get an idea of what you want, how much support you need to set up a bike etc and then decide if you want to buy on line (sometimes a big cost savings but little to no hand holding you'd get from a bike shop) or buy from the local bike shop. (Hint), if you are willing to partially assemble a bike yourself, there are some killer deals on line. Check the online customer reviews of the componets on the bikes you are considering ie. fork, rear shock, gears, brakes etc. You can do much of that on this site here. Then honestly decide what kind of riding you'll be doing. Don't let others tell you you need to spend more than what fits your riding style. If you need to, spend a few extra bucks to get the bike that won't hinder your riding style.
Do the above and you'll end up with a bike that fits you and you'll be a happy camper.


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## brad0022 (Jun 23, 2008)

I dont know much about the bike you picked up. Im a beginner also. I bought a Raleigh m60 off of ebay after doing a lot searching in forums, looking at Dicks, other joints and two local bike shops. I originally was going after a Diamondback Outlook for 200 from Dicks. I planned on upgrading the Outloook so I priced out many parts, it seemed more economical to just spend an extra 100 or a little more up front for a Raleigh Mojave 2.0 that was only 260 versus spending a bit more that 100 buying parts over time. I would have gone with the Mojave 2 if I did not see that great bike on ebay. 

Just ride the bike stock, break it in for a little while. See what needs upgrading. Do what Starkonian and check on ebay for parts. Read as many reviews and info as you can about the Mongoose so you know its limitations as far as how rough of a trail and how much abuse it can take.


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## Treknology (Jul 4, 2008)

I came _this close_ to buying a MTB from Dick's Sporting Goods. It was a Diamondback and was around $300. I ended up getting a Trek 4300 from my local Trek shop for $480 and I'm SO happy I did. I love this bike. If all you can afford is something cheap, then I guess it's better than no bike at all. But if you're debating between $200 for a Walmart special or $350+ for a reliable name-brand bike, then I think the decision is a no-brainer.


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## 4point7vee8 (Dec 9, 2006)

It's been 2 years since I bought an Alta from Dick's.

Sold it to my roomate, bought a Gary Fisher Tassajara, it's basically stock except for bar ends and the usual stuff.

That old Alta has been through hell and back. Still rides great except for the chain that jumps off and skips when you try to go up a hill. Not my bike - not my problem.

Not bad for $250. Not great. It still works, and keeps up with my Tassajara.


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## OldNick (Aug 7, 2006)

I just want to add that I bought two cheap bikes, with what had been a respected name (Malvern Star), from a LBS. I paid $200 each for them. I could have bought from KMart for maybe $120. The bikes I bought were garbage. On mine the front forks were wobbling about 1" back and forth at the hub after 1 week. I had it replaced, put the bikes aside for use on paddock rides by visitors, and bought some decent bikes.

We were hardly thrashing these bikes. We were getting back into biking, at middle age, and were riding paddocks with a few hummocks.

The bikes said "Not for offorad use"....they were MOUNTAIN bikes.

LESSONS:

LBS is not necessarily a guarantee of even useful bikes. They just charge more.

Check the Web. Make sure that the bike you buy is nit a "trusted name", but that it is a current, agreed quality make. Unusually, the lower versions of good names are far better than anything from crap builders.

Nick


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## Fivedays (Aug 15, 2007)

Old Nick, I don't think your case is a case of where you buy a bike. It's the kind of bike you buy. If it says don't take off road, it's made for recreational use only (beach rides, etc). Mountain bike is just a name they give to that category like sport utility vehicle. It doesn't mean they're all fit to be taken off road. You wouldn't take a Honda CRV on the Rubicon Trail just because it's in the SUV class (I think they also have warnings about taking them off road). I think the lesson is no new bike under $250 is going to hold up well (or safely) to serious off road riding. But I see tons of decent late 90s bikes on Craigslist that would and they can be had for the same cost. A far better starter bike.


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## markowe (Feb 1, 2007)

My problem with dept. stores-type bikes is, if nothing else, their durability. I paid about $150 for a bike with bottom-of-the-range Shimano parts (Tourney etc.) and actually rode it for around 3 years. It was fine round town and on some local rides, even some longer expeditions. But it simply didn't last - one too many rough descents (though I am hardly an adrenaline freak) ended up breaking the stem inside, so that the handlebars ARE still held onto the frame, but they wobble about.

Then I bought a second-hand Scott and the difference was amazing - just the stronger more sturdy feel makes you go, "Oh, THAT'S why those bikes are so cheap".

So I will always say, like everyone here, spend just that little bit more if you think you will be doing anything more than round-town riding - you will get a LOT more bike for your money.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

I agree, my LBS sells low end KHS mt bikes. not at 200 but around $300. These are heavy and have low end components. I wouldn't take any of these for serious mt biking. tires wouldn't grip the forks have rubber bumpers for dampning. these bikes are for the bike paths and riding around the block. the components will probably wear out quickly. I know because my first mt. bike was a entry level Trek.


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## mopardamo (Jul 7, 2008)

I just bought a K2 Crush from Sports Authority today. It was on clearance and then on sale for another 25%. On top of that I was lucky enough to get a Friends and Family 25% again. Picked it up for $215 before taxes. SA gives you a 1 year parts and labor guarantee. I bought 2 more years parts and labor for $30. So for the next 3 years I will only pay for tires and tubes with a total expense of $245. I am 44 and doubt I will need even them in 3 years, but who knows.

Made a 20 minute local ride with a couple of adjustments in there. I think I am set for 30 minutes of trail time and then some checking/adjusting before 2 hours of use. I am an old hot rodder and know that I need to make some adjustments and keep a real tight eye on things initially. I feel real comfortable with my purchase. I know I was lucky with the dollars and cents aspect. But I also kept an eye on what I wanted and what sales were going on and knew in advance what to expect. It was not dumb luck. So take all of these guys advice and research. If you watch closely and are ready you may be able to strike and get a good deal on a beginner bike be it at a chain store, LBS or used.

Damon


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## jOie (Jul 20, 2008)

> I'm 18 about 5'7 200 lbs. i used to ride when i was a kid and decided to get into it again. i really dont know much but i am trying to get a bike to ride trails and other stuff. i have about $850 and am almost likely gonna get the Rockhopper disc 29er. is that a bad idea?


I think that in that price range the Giant XTC1 is better spec'd.


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## snailsongs (Jul 4, 2008)

OK, so I came back to mountain biking with a $275 dollar schwinn from Fleet Farm (a walmart for the ******* set here in WI). This bike was full-suspension, it looked pretty cool, yet I had no expectations that it would live up to my previous bike from a few years back, a Kona Muni Mula which was stolen. SInce I used this bike almost exclusively for cross-town riding, it got the job done in decent form for 2 years or so....I was never able to get the brakes adjusted properly and the wheels wen't out of true like nothing else, so I eventually gave up on trying to tune-up the bike....this last spring I bought myself a Fisher Piranha (hardtail) from an LBS, and I have not been able to get off the thing since then. I ride it to work, the store, and I have discovered "true" trail riding for the first time with this bike.....in fact, I have used this bike so much that when someone posted an ad on craigslist for a fisher hifi plus...a bike worth over twice my Piranha...but for the close to price of my Piranha, I had to look into it.... Turns out the bike was new, save for the frame because the guy decided on a different size and wanted his upgraded components from the old frame....in short: it was a freakin great deal.....now, my wife was really really mad, because I had now spent $1700 just this summer on two new bikes. I was in the doghouse, for sure. Friday night, however, I coaxed her into the garage to see the Hifi and take a little spin on it (my wifes biking experience: she owns and rides a comfort cruiser hybrid type bike from walmart that generally does the trick for her amount and level of riding)....so she got on the hifi and I followed with my other bike....two minutes down the road and she was grinning from ear to ear and riding faster than I've ever seen her ride in my entire life, saying "woohoo, this is the most fun I've ever had in my entire life!" She was challenging me to races through the park and just glowing with excitement....we ended up riding around town well past the time when we were supposed to meet grandma with the kids at home....and I have been let out of the doghouse and mostly forgiven, thanks to her revelation that all bikes are NOT created equal....a true mountain biking story of victory, as well as a good illustration of just what you might be missing confining yourself to that dept store bike!


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## kandyni (Jul 23, 2008)

*advice on bike*

Hi - I just purchased a bike from amazon.com, and am wondering if it will meet my needs.
I started commuting about 8 months ago - I have a fairly heavy giant bike which I got used for $75 - I think it is some kind of comfort bike model.

recently my son got a mountain bike - his first real bike (he is 11 and 5'4") - I got him an Ironhorse 1.5 - I havent been completely satisfied with it because he has had problems with the handlebars going loose, and the adjustment on the gears not working quite right - but he got it from performance bikes with thieir lifetime tuneup - anyway - he has really gotten into biking, - though we dont do mountain biking we do bike on dirt roads sometimes.

I am loving going out with him - I now am biking every day - 6 miles a day rt commute during the week, and 8 or 9 miles a day with him on the weekends around bike routes and some dirt roads in the country.

Sooo I am looking for another bike. I didnt want to pay much, partly because I am cheap, and partly because bikes tend to get stolen where I park at the university - also parts get stolen off them (I just had a $5 blinking taillight stolen from my bike today!)

the bike I bought is: the 2006 mongoose comp tyax for $160 from amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/2006-Mongoose-Tyax-Comp-Mountain/dp/B000GZPUD6/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_2

thoughts? is this a "cheap dept store bike" or is it a step up from that? will it be reliable or will the components fall apart?

thoughts?


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

the bike theives will probably want this bike. I like it except for the steel handle bars. However for the price you paid you can't go wrong. Can you take the bike inside your office?

I had a clunker to commute to college. nobody touched it. probably because it was a 45 lb dept. store special (all steel) I don't think they invented aluminum yet!. and I had one of those cheezy loope chain locks. your probably could yank it off bare handed. I sold it after a couple of months and bought a better bike and on ifinitum. my bike addiction has gone round table now. After a long series of expensive bikes I bought a low end bike. 450 is low end for me. I will probably try commuting on it, but I will store inside somewhere.


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## kandyni (Jul 23, 2008)

*thanks for response*

yeah - I wish I could bring my bike inside - I have room in my office, but rules forbid bringing bikes inside.

I figured for the price I got on this bike, even if I dont like it because it doesnt fit me well, I can sell it on craigslist for close to what I bought it for.

I was thinking also of the forge bikes which were discussed on this site.
The Vero looks like it might fit the bill... http://www.forgebikes.com/vero.asp

it claims to be "lightweight" (well probably means not godawful heavy) and would be comfortable for commuting, ok on dirt roads, (suspension fork, though from what I hear here, that is a low-end one) and not too slow for touring around.

I weigh around 150, and since I am not doing any serious mountain biking, I doubt I would have problems with the fork.

My main concern is reliability... I am going to give the Iron Horse I got my son one more tuneup, and then I am going to consider either upgrading components or getting a different bike. the gearshifting has not been a great experience for him, and I want him to enjoy biking!!!!


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## madcatmini (Aug 3, 2008)

I just got my first bike this Friday 8/1/08. I did a ton a research before I decided what to get. I'm buying the bike for my 5.5 mile commute to and from work, I also plant to do a lot of XC and trail riding. I ended up with the Specialized rockhopper comp disc. The bike retails for about $940 but I caught the new '08 model on sale for $740. I based my decision on the idea that I'll be biking back and forth for years. I also liked the frame a lot and know I can upgrade components as I get more interested or not. The nice thing is the bike shop I got it from can do all my work they are reliable nice and well priced. I was swayed from ever getting a department store bike when I got my sister one. Within 3 weeks it didn't shift properly. After adjusting the derailleur 2 weeks later she bent the rear axle leaving the drive way and riding over the rain-gutter. After I saw my 70 lb. sister do that there was no way I was putting my 250 lb. tail on a dept. store bike.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Rockhopper Comp Disc is a great bike, for the money. It will keep you interested in the sport much longer than a Wal-Mart bike. Those cheapie bikes are pure garbage.....and the biggest ripoff of all. Get to know your bike parts well, and you will catch the upgrade bug like crazy. Ride on!!!


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## kandyni (Jul 23, 2008)

I guess i got a pretty good deal on the mongoose, because now when I check amazon its $100 more. LOL. 

anyway I am pretty happy with it. The 20" frame is a touch large for me (I'm 5'6" with very long legs, short torso) the height was fine, but the stretch was too much.

But I put a riser on the steering tube, and a shorter stem, and continental tires with a different tread pattern which rolls alot faster, and I am very happy. I am very upright for commuting, but i spose if I ever do a longer ride and want more speed I can take the riser off.

The bike is quite a step up from my old one. the shifting is fine.


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## kandyni (Jul 23, 2008)

and its alot more fun to ride! last night I took my bike instead of the car to the grocery store, because it is so much more fun...


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## tSN_ (Aug 9, 2008)

I just bought an 08' GT outpost a few days ago. Im pretty happy with it.
Ive been interested in taking it off-road, but what parts should I replace in order to do so?
Thanks in advance.


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## Masta Flash (Aug 5, 2008)

Hello...I just picked up a new Columbia Trailhead for $40 from someone who bought it and never used it... it feels good for me, I'm using it to commute to work and some off road trails

Specs: Hi-Tensile steel frame, RST 181 fork with 80mm of travel, 21 speed w/ Shimano shifters and derailleurs.... its also very lightweight

I know its made by Iron Horse and are sold for about $300...any thoughts?


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*some thoughts*

it's entry level, but for $40 a great deal to start off with. It'll be fine for commuting, but not so great for trails as the fork won't be a decent performer.

But it's a great bike for learning on, and a very inexpensive one at that. Ride lots and smile, Jim

Oh, your questions will likely get answered a lot better over in the Beginners' forum.


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## wildtrekker (Sep 2, 2008)

What I have right now is an amxtreme full suspension XC bike. It came with a 6061 aluminum frame and a rock shox judy TT fork. I got it at Sports Authority, cost me about $300.00. the thing is I am on a budget and I was not ready to spend $900-1200 on a MTB. Plus I thought it would be a better idea just to do the upgrades myself. Personally, I like to tinker with things, break it down and build it up again, make it better. In short, the goal was to start with a entry-level bike and do modifications on it. So what I have right is a heavily modified MTB. Frame and shocks remain stock though. As a summary, for wheel hubs, front and rear derailleur, crank set I used Shimano Deore, Mavic Rims, WTB saddle with Titec seat post, kenda tires (stock), Ritchey handlebar, Shimano rapid fire shifters (stock) and avid rim breaks. With the exception of the occassional flat tires, it runs great! Shifting is smooth, traction and handling is good as well. it also did good on uphills and dirt roads.

This is my current set up:


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## nuel (Sep 2, 2008)

Years a go after not riding MTB for awhile I bought Schwinn bike from WM. Well, the good think was it good for few weeks on flat dirt road, when my fitness and skill get better and start going to trail ride the bike just not built for that purpose.
If you already have it, just ride them untill you have money to get a good one. at this moment I own 3 bike (Cannondale Prophet, Marin Quad Tara, Giant something). I don't think I'll be riding these awesome bikes and be in good health if I didn't bought that cheap bike in WM and just ride for the fun of it.
Go, buy, explore.


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## wildtrekker (Sep 2, 2008)

Basically, that is the way it is. Start with something simple, enough to do the job, and just expand at a later time. The bike is an ongoing project. I was thinking of replacing the frame. Any ideas would be appreciated.


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## bchapacpt (Sep 3, 2008)

I bought a WM bike when i got to college to help me get from A to B faster (and partly because it's a lot more fun with all the hills roads and hidden trails in and around campus)
The bike was alright while i was riding on the road and i didn't want to spend $300 on a good quality bike if i wasn't going to really get into the biking lifestyle. In the two years i had it though i went through rims, axles, brakes, handlebars and virtually everything else.
I finally settled on a 08 Hardrock sport and the difference has been amazing. All in all though i felt it was a natural thinking progression as far as financially and my increased love for the sport.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

A Wal-Mart "bike" is NOT a bike. They are fullsized, toy versions of real bikes. Yet, they cost about a third as much, which is a ripoff joke. Even under normal riding- you will find they will break just like toys......which is all they really are- display items. What a scam. I fell for it too. An LBS bike allows you the freedom to upgrade it- not because something broke, but because a stronger, lighter item exists for it. That is the real FUN of owning a bike.


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## wildtrekker (Sep 2, 2008)

Basically, that is the way it is. Start with something simple, enough to do the job, and just expand at a later time. The bike is an ongoing project. I was thinking of replacing the frame. Any ideas would be appreciated.


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

wildtrekker said:


> Basically, that is the way it is. Start with something simple, enough to do the job, and just expand at a later time. The bike is an ongoing project. I was thinking of replacing the frame. Any ideas would be appreciated.


Please do, before you get hurt. That frame was never designed to go off-road. The welds and tubing are sub-par.

Any frame actually intended to go off-road will be better than that. You can get cheap hardtail frames from Nashbar, or Jenson for $100 or $200.

I find it hard to believe that it has great traction with a shock that lacks rebound adjustment.


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## mfigurski (Sep 11, 2008)

I have been looking to get a bike and start riding again. I am looking at the $300 - $400 range. I looked at a K2 Zed Sport at Dunham's and a Diamondback Response from Dick's Sporting Goods. I liked both of them, but reading everyone's posts has gotten me a bit scared of those places. Yesterday, I stopped at the local Trek shop and was looking at the Trek 3700.  It is the most expensive out of the three, but I am assuming that coming from a Pro Shop more than makes up for the difference. Thoughts??


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## wildtrekker (Sep 2, 2008)

mfigurski said:


> I have been looking to get a bike and start riding again. I am looking at the $300 - $400 range. I looked at a K2 Zed Sport at Dunham's and a Diamondback Response from Dick's Sporting Goods. I liked both of them, but reading everyone's posts has gotten me a bit scared of those places. Yesterday, I stopped at the local Trek shop and was looking at the Trek 3700. It is the most expensive out of the three, but I am assuming that coming from a Pro Shop more than makes up for the difference. Thoughts??


Hello,

Product reviews have been provided on this site.

Listed below are links for the reviews that have been made for the bikes that you just mentioned:

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/older-categ...ack/response-sport-bike/PRD_349348_91crx.aspx

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/older-categories-bikes/2003-hardtail/k2/zed-sport/PRD_361676_1510crx.aspx

What I recommend is define what your needs are first, meaning how often would you be biking, type of trails that you will be going to, and distance/length of travel.

Based on the comments posted on the reviews, there were a number of riders who end up replacing some of the components on their bikes, same thing happened to mine. I basically started with something small (since I was on a budget like yourself) then just gradually did some modifications.

The bikes you mentioned, in my opinion, are good 'starter' or entry-level bikes but more than likely you will be doing upgrades on them as you get more into the sport.

Hope this helps.

Good luck on your search and have fun!


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

mfigurski said:


> I have been looking to get a bike and start riding again. I am looking at the $300 - $400 range. I looked at a K2 Zed Sport at Dunham's and a Diamondback Response from Dick's Sporting Goods. I liked both of them, but reading everyone's posts has gotten me a bit scared of those places. Yesterday, I stopped at the local Trek shop and was looking at the Trek 3700. It is the most expensive out of the three, but I am assuming that coming from a Pro Shop more than makes up for the difference. Thoughts??


those are all good choices, getting a proper size and fit is the most important thing.
the LBS should be able to provide this better than a sporting goods store or discount market. I've read post where some people wan't to upgrade as they go. But keep in mind doing this will probably cost you as much as you bought your bike for. for instance forks, they can go from plus or minus $200 up to $500, crankset, $130 up for a good shimano, tires $35 each or more, if you want Hydo disc brake, forget about adding those. disc brakes system will cost as much as your complete bike. Clipless pedals fo for around $100. an on and on obnausium. then you may need a new (lighter stronger) frame. heh!

Seriously, I recommend getting the entry level bike at a reputable bike shop, get fitted. Go ride and enjoy the bike. after you ride your bike for a while you will know what qualities you'll want on your next bike. but for now just ride.


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## mfigurski (Sep 11, 2008)

*Thanks for the input.....*

I spent all day yesterday going to a couple different pro shops in the area. The guys at the pro shop asked questions about what kind of riding I plan on doing and things like that. At Dick's, the guy simply said "We have this Diamondback for $289.99." Since I plan on doing mostly rails to trails and some road biking, the guys at both pro shops suggested that I go with a hybrid. I still test road the Trek 3700, but when I test road the Cannondale Adventure S and the Trek 7.2 FX, I was blown away. The ride felt super smooth and comfortable. The 7.2 just fit a little better for me so that is what I went with. Thanks for all your feedback!!


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

nice bike! It should be fast with the 700c wheels, this is an on road only bike, You probably could take it on smooth trails. I have a similar bike with dropped bars for commuting, running errands, urban riding etc. It is lighter and faster than my steely w/full campy. at 1/4 the cost. I love it.


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## poriggity (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks for this thread.. I am just getting back into Mt. Biking, and this forum has already been helpful! I am in the process of cleaning up my old beater Motiv, but I am looking for a decent beginner bike, and this place is already helping me out. IMHO, I don't like walmart type bikes either, hence the reason I am getting rid of the Motiv for something of better quality, as soon as possible 
Scott


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## hilltoprider (Aug 12, 2008)

lmao,you know what back when I was a kid riding there was hardly any front suspension bikes,lol,spring if there were.what is the big deal with all you haters?sure a walmart bike isn't a race bike but for someone on a budget and getting into the sport?all you guys do is push people away.how many of us started on huffy's?**** I had me a great d60r from a dept store.was the reason I fell in love with riding and WHEN my skills surpassed my ride...lol,I bought a better one.thank god for cheap bikes though.
just for the record I don't think they are worth much upgrading,but to each their own.ride on my friends and to hell with the haters.


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## Adam_waugh (Oct 11, 2008)

I am always intrested to give my bike diffrent look I also modify the bike according me.Basically i like folding bike.


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## Remy Darke (Mar 18, 2008)

hilltoprider said:


> lmao,you know what back when I was a kid riding there was hardly any front suspension bikes,lol,spring if there were.what is the big deal with all you haters?sure a walmart bike isn't a race bike but for someone on a budget and getting into the sport?all you guys do is push people away.how many of us started on huffy's?**** I had me a great d60r from a dept store.was the reason I fell in love with riding and WHEN my skills surpassed my ride...lol,I bought a better one.thank god for cheap bikes though.
> just for the record I don't think they are worth much upgrading,but to each their own.ride on my friends and to hell with the haters.


Recommending a Walmart type bike to anyone getting into the sport isn't doing them any favors. Other than the inherent danger of using one off road dispite the warnings not to, the bikes are usually poorly assembled and most beginners are not bike mechanics. I pretty much destroyed mine after a few rides on the pavement. If I didn't know how to work on bikes it would of been junk after the first ride. (Well actually it was junk before the first ride.) So you may call them haters but they're just trying to make sure people get a well built and safe bike.

As for starting on Huffy's...Yeah I did that and usually destroyed them in month or two. I went through a ton of department store BMX bikes until I got a Jamis Laser 500. Wasn't a very high end bike but it never broke on me and I actually still have it.


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## omahablackcomb (Oct 14, 2008)

this is funny. I love my walmart blackcomb. I beat the hell out of it, zero problems.


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## lampy29 (Oct 16, 2008)

*Totally buy local!*

You should absolutely buy from your local bike store because when you buy from them you don't just get the bike, you also get the help that comes with it - a bike store will be much more likely to answer your questions and help you get started when you buy from them.


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## holycrikey (Sep 7, 2008)

Wow... I stumbled across this thread and am amazed that so many people bought department store bikes. Especially for actual offroad use. I see so many people spending $300 or so bucks on what really equates to a junker. I've seen many older bikes with great components go for cheap on ebay in just the past month. For example, a 2001 Giant Warp DS/1 with all XT components went for a hair over $350. A 2002 stock Warp DS/2 went for $250. I even saw a 2005ish Rockhopper go for $200 cause no one bid on it. The thing was in great condition! 

Why buy extremely lower quality bikes when used ones can be had relatively easily via Ebay? Yes, you take a relative risk by buying without actually seeing/trying it, but jeez... I'll take that risk for FAR superior components and a better/lighter frame. 

If someone is serious about beginning, it doesn't mean they need to drop $700-800 bucks. But they should get themselves a bike that will LAST on the trails.


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## lampy29 (Oct 16, 2008)

Buy your bike from your local bike store, and I don't mean you should buy from JunkMart. Your LBS has a large amount of expertise in mountain bikes and will be your most invaluable resource when you learn how to mountain bike.


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## KingCrimson (Jun 26, 2008)

Lampy- What a revelation.


By the way, your site has many grammatical and factual errors..makes it tough to consider it "awesome"


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## Remy Darke (Mar 18, 2008)

I checked out that site and learned from the shifter section that I need to get rid of my xt dcl's because real mountain bikes only use trigger style levers. Well actually I'll just have to get rid of the Gary Fisher since it's not made out aluminum or carbon either. Must have been one of those junkmart Fishers.:skep:


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## ProfGumby (Feb 27, 2008)

rjauto said:


> Totally agree. I bought my first mountain bike at a dept store. Was a pretty good bike after i readjusted everything. After riding it about a year components started going south.
> I finally reached the point where it was more frustrating than enjoyable to ride (always being concerned about breaking something). So i got farther in debt and bought a Cannondale f400.. Even though this is also a entry level bike, the differance is just amazing.. I find myself doing things on this bike that i would never attempt on my old bike,,, Granted, its probably all mental, but thats my story and im sticking to it!!!!!


Over a three year period, I spent about 3x what I paid for my K Mart WonderHuffy....and in 1/2 a summer my son killed it.

Did I get my moneys worth? No. If I had ridden it for 3 years and spent no money keeping it doing stupid things like shifting and stopping when I hit the brakes, then maybe I would have gotten my money out of it.

Friends don't let friends ride Big Box Bikes.....


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## holycrikey (Sep 7, 2008)

Remy Darke said:


> I checked out that site and learned from the shifter section that I need to get rid of my xt dcl's because real mountain bikes only use trigger style levers. Well actually I'll just have to get rid of the Gary Fisher since it's not made out aluminum or carbon either. Must have been one of those junkmart Fishers.:skep:


Yea, I went through his website as well. It's pretty questionable. Although some of the content is good for beginners, there is a lot of misinformation and a certain lack of reporting ALL information. How can he not even mention steel frames? He also mentions that "disk" brakes are a recent introduction in the sport. Really? Disks? Not discs?

That website needs some cleaning up.


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## Sabrason (Oct 7, 2008)

_"But the sanest advice to a beginner should be to get a low price hardtail from a major brand at a LBS. *Next step (IMHO) should be a low end Full Suspension *from reputated brands (like Specialized,* Giant*, Trek and why not? Mongoose or Diamond Back)."_

Couldn't agree more. I recently purchased an entry-level Forge Sawback 7xx FS bike (made by Giant) after bashing around on a Huffy HT for 10 years and I'm very happy with it so far. This of course, goes against some opinions on this forum that suggest that if you don't want to pay $1,000+ for a higher end FS bike than you shouldn't get one at all. :/

Take care


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## KingCrimson (Jun 26, 2008)

Not that we should be ragging on the guy, but here's some more.

"After a fast descent lightly touch your disk brake. You will notice that it is extraordinarily hot. This is because a disk brake is very effective. After a steep downhill on pad brakes tap your rim, hold your hand against it. It won't be half as hot as the rotor for the disk brake is because its not as efficient or effective as a disk brake."

Pad brakes..As far as I'm concerned all bikes are "pad" based..

And this description slightly overlooks the fact that the rim is many dozen times more massive. Tandems do weigh enough to heat rims and blow tires, tandems don't make brakes any more powerful.


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## lampy29 (Oct 16, 2008)

CrapMart bikes just don't last long. Please, please, please if you're getting into this sport buy from your LBS, you won't regret this decision.


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## KingCrimson (Jun 26, 2008)

lampy29 said:


> CrapMart bikes just don't last long. Please, please, please if you're getting into this sport buy from your LBS, you won't regret this decision.


I don't follow...


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*I can help....*



KingCrimson said:


> I don't follow...


He's a 16-year-old kid (with a great starter website) that could use a little support instead of criticism, unless it's constructive. He's made good attempt to put up a beginner website that is not bad, but has a few errors here and there. Disk vs. disc, pads are pads, etc. can easily be corrected. Steel bikes are not anything a beginner would look for and so it's proper to leave them out of the picture. Lastly he states that XC hard tails climb better than FS bikes, which I'm sure Christoph Sauser  would disagree with. Anyhow, it's a great effort and way better than any site most of the rest of us have put up, IMHO.

His point is that he believes that Dept. Store bikes are a poor choice for beginners. Apparently Consumer Reports Mag does too. Simple as that.

Cheers, Jim


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## Remy Darke (Mar 18, 2008)

It could be a nice site if it wasn't mostly opinion represented as fact. In fact just cleaning up a couple of the pages with some unbiased facts would make it quite a usable site. And steel bikes should be included even if in passing just so someone looking for a bike gets the complete picture. Beginners ask about steel bikes quite often on here. But it does look like a work in progress so maybe he'll change a few things.

Not many of us would argue about department store bikes being poor choice though....except for a few Blackcomb riders.


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## KingCrimson (Jun 26, 2008)

JimC. said:


> He's a 16-year-old kid (with a great starter website) that could use a little support instead of criticism, unless it's constructive. He's made good attempt to put up a beginner website that is not bad, but has a few errors here and there. Disk vs. disc, pads are pads, etc. can easily be corrected. Steel bikes are not anything a beginner would look for and so it's proper to leave them out of the picture. Lastly he states that XC hard tails climb better than FS bikes, which I'm sure Christoph Sauser  would disagree with. Anyhow, it's a great effort and way better than any site most of the rest of us have put up, IMHO.
> 
> His point is that he believes that Dept. Store bikes are a poor choice for beginners. Apparently Consumer Reports Mag does too. Simple as that.
> 
> Cheers, Jim


Thank you for the clarification, Jim.

My apologies to Lampy for the criticism, please PM me if you'd like help fixing errors in the site, I'd love to help out.

Have a good weekend all!:thumbsup:


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## Bullitt3401 (Oct 11, 2008)

*Thanks!*

Hi, new member here.

At the begininng of October, I was planning to buy a "GMC Topkick" from the Target website.

Luckily they weren't in stock.

A couple weeks ago, while searching for "Mountain Bike Forums," I found this site and registered. Didn't start reading much.

Went to the local Wal-Mart early last Sunday...out behind the garden section, they had a fenced-off area full of assembled bikes. Nobody was around, so I rode a few. A couple had crooked handlebars, some didn't shift right, some were scratched up from all of them being leaned against each other and from the assembly process.

After reading (and learning) a lot here, I started calling and visiting a couple LBS's in my area.

Yesterday, I placed an order for a 19" '09 Specialized Hardrock Disc through a very helpful LBS. They had a 21" in stock in the color I wanted and even assembled it so I could try it out...I tried out the same model in a 19" ( but another color) and it just fit me better.

My advice is save up a little more money, support your LBS and get into MTB'ing ahead of the game, so to speak. A good entry-level LBS bike will be better than a fancy-looking dept. store bike.

A big "Thanks" to the Mtbr forms and it's members for the sound advice in this thread, and many others. :thumbsup: I'm looking forward to picking up my first bike since 1984.


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## bjjoondo (Oct 9, 2008)

*I Wish!!*

:madman: Man I WISH I could afford a MTB from a shop, but the cheapest MTB my LBS had was $225.00, a NO suspension Jamis XR Trail, (PS. they didn't STOCK the XR Trail and to order it I could have got a X-2 w/suspension fork for the price they'd charge for shipping the XR Trail).

I'm on a fixed income but needed something to tow a bike cargo trailer (homemade), to pick up food as I don't own a car! So I bought a $70 Roadmaster Mnt. SportSX and I took it to the local LBS for a tune up. I've even done some "area single track" (Bearcreek Singletrack area, Colorado Springs, CO.), and done some riding on doubletrack dirt/gravel trails, it does ok as long as you REMEMBER it's a POS and you can't go GONZO on it. I've upgraded seat, etc. but so far the bottom level componets work ok, except for the V-brakes, there a PIA to adjust, give me good old Cantelivers anyday!!

I HOPE I can get a decent enough income tax refund to get a Jamis X-3 or Durango 1 trail bike but if not, wave as you go by on your wiz-bang $3000 dollar super MTB, I'll just be enjoying the day plodding down the singletrack!!:thumbsup:

B.J. Ondo, "Poor and OLD" MTB'er
Colorado Springs, CO.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

nice pics. sad story.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

*I'm Poor Too....*

Hey, I make minimum wage(UNDER $1000/mo.) and I was still able to afford a $3000 bike store bike! OK, it took me almost 8 months to get it all together- as I built it up part-by-part.....but it's very possible.

After suffering with many cheap bikes- I realized for me to really enjoy this sport to the fullest.....was to get a LBS QUALITY bike. I got tired of always fixing my $175 Wal-Mart POS. After spending almost three times the value of the crap bike.....was how I learned to build up a good bike myself. Let me tell you- it's completely worth it! I can easily put in 25-30 mile road/trail rides without EVER WORRYING about it breaking(I do not take huge jumps). So far, and 2500 miles later.....I have not even adjusted or fixed anything at all! Here is a pic of my super-fast, 19-pound XC race bike. I don't race either- but I LOVE riding fast....and this bike greatly helps me enjoy this kind of riding:


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## holycrikey (Sep 7, 2008)

I've gotta agree with Zachariah. Unless you need a bike ASAP, then saving up for something decent is always within reach as long as you have patience. The argument that "I can't afford anything that's above $300" is just insane unless you really have no ability save money on a monthly basis. If you simply don't make enough to save anything, then sure, buying bottom-of-the-barrel is the only choice and I can respect that. I think some people are just too impatient to save.


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## lampy29 (Oct 16, 2008)

You should absolutely buy from your LBS - they won't sell you crap.


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## bjjoondo (Oct 9, 2008)

*Zach, that's a really nice RIDE! *



Zachariah said:


> Hey, I make minimum wage(UNDER $1000/mo.) and I was still able to afford a $3000 bike store bike! OK, it took me almost 8 months to get it all together- as I built it up part-by-part.....but it's very possible.
> 
> After suffering with many cheap bikes- I realized for me to really enjoy this sport to the fullest.....was to get a LBS QUALITY bike. I got tired of always fixing my $175 Wal-Mart POS. After spending almost three times the value of the crap bike.....was how I learned to build up a good bike myself. Let me tell you- it's completely worth it! I can easily put in 25-30 mile road/trail rides without EVER WORRYING about it breaking(I do not take huge jumps). So far, and 2500 miles later.....I have not even adjusted or fixed anything at all! Here is a pic of my super-fast, 19-pound XC race bike. I don't race either- but I LOVE riding fast....and this bike greatly helps me enjoy this kind of riding:


Zach, SWEET RIDE, but were barely making, Rent, Food, Meds and trying to do minor upgrades on the POS MTB. Still you've made us look to see how to put what few pennies we can find away, maybe by next early summer, I'll have a non POS MTB!

I don't plan to race or be a major gonzo style rider so I figure a 5-600 dollar MTB would be able to handle all my riding needs. Got my eye on the Jamis Durango 1, till then my POS MTB, otherwise known as "Triple-T" (Three Ton Tessy) will have keep on thuck'in up and down trails. ENJOY that bike, it is SWEET!:thumbsup:


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

I hear you, there. I thought it was almost IMPOSSIBLE to have a decent bike......with my income. But here is what I did:

1) Start with a good, upgradeable frame - I rode so many bikes, I got sick of it. Finally, I found one on where else, but MTBR! My Cannondale frame was $200 shipped. On my income, I had to make TWO payments of $100 before the cool MTBR member shipped the frame to me. It was worth the wait. The frame was almost brand new, and weighed only three pounds. That was when the upgrade bug bit me HARD. 

2) Scan Craigslist & eBay daily for deals - I was able to transfer most of my existing POS parts on the Cannondale frame. But, that did not last very long. Through the internet, I found deals on wheels, shifters, cassettes, saddles, etc.....until my new bike had no POS parts on it. How did I do it? I quit eating out, and saved myself $200/month. At the same time-I also lost 40lbs, from riding 75-100 miles a week(AND not eating junk food!). Then, I also removed web browsing/texting from my cellphone service, so I got ONLY phone calls. That was another $30/month saved. Yes, I had to make sacrifices- just to support my biking addiction.

3) Save ALL your coin change - The only change I used, was for laundry. In four months, I had saved almost $300 in coins....which all went towards carbon bars, saddle, stem and a seatpost. Being a newfound weight weenie- I found myself riding my new, light bike every chance I got. When I got my tax refund- it all went to a new Mavic wheelset. By then, the bike went from 27-pounds.....to 24-pounds. As I got faster, I got more obsessed with my bike and later sold, or just gave away the remaining POS parts.

It all boils down to what really motivates YOU. And in my book- cost is NO OBJECT when it comes to my passions and hobbies. Upgrade your bike slowly, and learn to appreciate finer bike parts. Why are they really worth it? Because they last almost forever. My goal was to build myself a bike I can ride for another ten years, without changing a thing. Maybe in ten years- sub-20 pound mountain bikes will be all the norm.


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## ProfGumby (Feb 27, 2008)

Zachariah said:


> Hey, I make minimum wage(UNDER $1000/mo.) and I was still able to afford a $3000 bike store bike! OK, it took me almost 8 months to get it all together- as I built it up part-by-part.....but it's very possible.
> 
> After suffering with many cheap bikes- I realized for me to really enjoy this sport to the fullest.....was to get a LBS QUALITY bike. I got tired of always fixing my $175 Wal-Mart POS. After spending almost three times the value of the crap bike.....was how I learned to build up a good bike myself. Let me tell you- it's completely worth it! I can easily put in 25-30 mile road/trail rides without EVER WORRYING about it breaking(I do not take huge jumps). So far, and 2500 miles later.....I have not even adjusted or fixed anything at all! Here is a pic of my super-fast, 19-pound XC race bike. I don't race either- but I LOVE riding fast....and this bike greatly helps me enjoy this kind of riding:


Bravo to you sir! You pretty much nailed it that saving for a bike is worth while! I was unable to purchase my LBS bikes when I got back into riding, so I saved. I have never regretted it since!

One not over extending themselves and saving for things is a good way to go.....I am glad I finally learned this and am slowly, but successfully digging my way out of Debt....


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## wildtrekker (Sep 2, 2008)

I pretty much had the same approach. Normally I would have assembled my own bike with the parts that I want. I love cycling, needed a bike, but I was on a budget. Got a low-end bike, slowly made some modifications on it. Now it is turning out great! At this point, the only thing that needs to be replaced is the FRAME which I am saving for. It is an ongoing project. I am in no rush. Good things come to those who wait.

BTW I am also working on my commuter bike - it is a 90's Specialized Hardrock. Somebody threw it away! It is now in running condition.


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

I like Zachariah's approach for sure, I too am just piecing my bike together, it has mid level components at best and I work out the bugs as I go and upgrade as I can. I have a cannondale that fully built from the factory weighed only 23lbs, but the way I built it with the components I have it weighs just under 27lbs


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Zachariah said:


> It all boils down to what really motivates YOU. And in my book- cost is NO OBJECT when it comes to my passions and hobbies. Upgrade your bike slowly, and learn to appreciate finer bike parts. Why are they really worth it? Because they last almost forever. My goal was to build myself a bike I can ride for another ten years, without changing a thing. Maybe in ten years- sub-20 pound mountain bikes will be all the norm.


For some reason such stories make me feel completely inadequate.

I just blew about $5K on a couple new bikes and upgrades, and I am sure I will not get as happy about them. Yeah, being a wizbang software developer around here does help with bills, but if I have not had two kids now, I would have rather said screw it all and went somewhere climbing for a few years...


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

Curmy I am kinda with you on that, I guess it all comes down to who you are and what type of person you are. I like getting exctied about that one new upgrade, rather than taking a big some of money and just buying everything at once. I get a better "happiness" from building rather than buying.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

ricot83 said:


> Curmy I am kinda with you on that, I guess it all comes down to who you are and what type of person you are. I like getting exctied about that one new upgrade, rather than taking a big some of money and just buying everything at once. I get a better "happiness" from building rather than buying.


Oh, I do build everything up. My new Kona Coiler got parts purchased from stores in six different countries - the power of the internet. I got Motobecane Fly Ti as a whole bike, but I had sold the crankset abroad, and replaced a dozen bits for the weight weenie sake.

At the same time I have converted an old full suspension Specialized, with steel front triangle, of unknown origin, that I have welded some bits to it myself, and painted myself, into a 2x1 "single speed", replaced fork and a bunch of parts on my Yeti Kokopelli, rebuild wheels on my road fixie..

Building bikes from parts is very satisfying...


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## wildtrekker (Sep 2, 2008)

Curmy said:


> Oh, I do build everything up. My new Kona Coiler got parts purchased from stores in six different countries - the power of the internet. I got Motobecane Fly Ti as a whole bike, but I had sold the crankset abroad, and replaced a dozen bits for the weight weenie sake.
> 
> At the same time I have converted an old full suspension Specialized, with steel front triangle, of unknown origin, that I have welded some bits to it myself, and painted myself, into a 2x1 "single speed", replaced fork and a bunch of parts on my Yeti Kokopelli, rebuild wheels on my road fixie..
> 
> Building bikes from parts is very satisfying...


Do you have pics of the bikes?
Just curious. 
I like to build bikes as well


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

wildtrekker said:


> Do you have pics of the bikes?
> Just curious.
> I like to build bikes as well


Not around handy. I have posted an intemediate state of my Kona build on this thread.

My favorite bike is the aforementioned Specialized. Found essentially in trash, installed a new rear shock, manufactured some bushings, welded one tab, stripped paint and repainted, and build it up with bits lying around my garage.. Fun.


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

here my work in progress, got a new fork, wheel,. disk brake, hand grips... and other stuff on the way for Xmas


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

I bought a cheapo Pacific Exploit from the local department store about two months ago. Hadn't ridden in forever, so I didn't really know what I was looking for, other than it had to have a frame, seat, brakes, two wheels, two pedals, handle bars, and a chain. Probably should have done a little more research, but I was desperate!

Would I recommend the bike to anyone? No. Not unless you're really in shape and like the feel of about 6 cement blocks dragging behind you! Seriously, the thing weighs a ton. Probably because it's mostly steel (except for the pedals huh? which are some plastic like material????). It says it's a 'mountain bike', but has warning stickers not to take it off road. Feels like an old heavy flatland cruiser than anything.

Plus, it's actually the second bike of the same model from that purchase. The first one completely stripped the free wheel ratchet less that two hours after the purchase. Should have been the first clue, but again, the desperation to just ride grabbed hold. So, took it back and got it replaced with a 'new' bike. Went completely over the this one and pretty much reassembled it making sure everything was right on it. New seat because the old one felt like a fabric covered brick. New brake pads, because the old one's were nothing more than over sized pencil erasers that took about two or three really heavy stops to turn into worthless nubs. Resisting the temptation to replace the pedals. Can't see putting much more money into it. Not the best bike in the world, but maybe it'll last through the winter.

Sooner or later, I'm buying a more expensive (and hopefully MUCH lighter) bike from the LBS. Live and learn.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

Today was the first time I thought to look for the "not intended for off-road use" sticker on a dept. store bike. *Lo-and-behold a $299.00 Schwinn FS bike at my local Target had a a sticker reading "Not intended for competition, jumping, or off-road use". *

THAT'S why dept. store bikes blow.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

ricot83 said:


> here my work in progress, got a new fork, wheel,. disk brake, hand grips... and other stuff on the way for Xmas


Cool. What are the parts in the box? 

The BEST investment a beginner can make is a bike maintenance book and instructions. 
As soon as you can do everything - from pressing a headset to adjusting a derailler, your enjoment of riding will double and cost of it will plummet.

I was lucky I had a headstart on all the biking mechanical work as I am an experimental physicist by training and can build or fix pretty much everything from a faucet to a satellite. But even my accountant wife appreciated a lot once she learned how to adjust a derailleur or brakes by herself..


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## harry2110 (Oct 18, 2008)

Anarchy_Biker said:


> Hey man i'm 15 too and recently i got sponsored so right now ride a Giant NRS 3 and i came off a kona but i started riding on a crappy Dick's mongoose thing. Now that i look back on its kinda funny


First question is how did you get sponsered? I'm 17 and have recently bought my first proper mountain bike. I kept on buying department store bike and would trash them in 6 months at the most and the wheels would last maybe 4 days before i had them warped. Now I'm riding a RMB fusion in blue and white the frame and wheels have so far held up well to the my style of rides(hoping 5in curbs constantly and high speed DH).


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## KingCrimson (Jun 26, 2008)

harry2110 said:


> First question is how did you get sponsered? I'm 17 and have recently bought my first proper mountain bike. I kept on buying department store bike and would trash them in 6 months at the most and the wheels would last maybe 4 days before i had them warped. Now I'm riding a RMB fusion in blue and white the frame and wheels have so far held up well to the my style of rides(hoping 5in curbs constantly and high speed DH).


I plow curbs with my pansy-wansy xc bike.

May want to re-evaluate your high speed DH analysis.


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## harry2110 (Oct 18, 2008)

It not really a true DH its more of sidewalk that are atleast 20 years old that have 6-7in sudden drops and broken pavement that juts up a couple inches and a couple that drop off the curb into a 12in deep pot hole that and the fact is the street is very steep and long. I got up to 35mph on the smoother section. It's more of an urban DH


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## jettabrett92 (Aug 29, 2008)

Here's a positive Dept Store bike story.

Before I got my Diamondback Response, I used to ride a 2004 Schwinn Sidewinder MTB. I put over 600 miles on that bike before it got stolen. During that time it gave me absolutely no problems, although I didn't really ride any rough trails. It was a great bike to test the waters and see if I really liked riding.

Like I said, it never gave me any problems, and actually shifted well even though it used Gripshift and a Shimano Tourney rear derailluer. I did however have to tune the bike up myself, which again was a great learning experience. Also, it was nice because had I torn the bike up, I would'n't have been out much money.

Another thing I noticed about that old Schwinn was how comparable it was to the lower end bikes of other brands. Let me lay write it out...

2004 Schwinn Sidewinder 
-RST 191 Fork
-Suntour Cranks
-Promax brakes
-Shimano Tourney RD
-Sram Gripshift
-Steel frame

2004 Trek 820
-RST 191 fork
-Suntour Cranks
-no name brakes
-Shimano altus RD
-Shimano shifters
-Steel frame

2004 Giant Boulder
-Suntour Fork
-Suntour Cranks
-no name brakes
-Shimano shifters
-Shimano altus RD
-Aluminum frame

So with all that said. If you're looking for a bike to trail ride, then I would consult your local LBS, but if your on a very strict budget, your riding won't be very demanding, and you feel you're capable enough to wrench on your own, then a cheap Schwinn may be okay for you.

Here's a picture of my old Schwinn, followed by my new DB...


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

Haven't seen too many pictures of the Pacific Cycle Exploits I talked about in the previous post, so here it is without most of the graphic stickers on it.


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## one incredible donkey (Jul 19, 2007)

A co-worker sent me this picture of a department store bike he had at home. His friend wanted to borrow it for a trail ride.

Take a look at the rear dropouts, which do not even appear to be welded on. It looks like the frame is simply crimped against the dropout.










I advised against taking it off road. Or on road for that matter.

The bike was branded "Fox River" or "Far River".


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## KingCrimson (Jun 26, 2008)

GlassTrain said:


> Haven't seen too many pictures of the Pacific Cycle Exploits I talked about in the previous post, so here it is without most of the graphic stickers on it.


The exploit. That tickles me in ways you don't even know.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

one incredible donkey said:


> A co-worker sent me this picture of a department store bike he had at home. His friend wanted to borrow it for a trail ride.
> 
> Take a look at the rear dropouts, which do not even appear to be welded on. It looks like the frame is simply crimped against the dropout.


Spot welds? They may hold it in place.

Not the only place on a bike with interference fit.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

Curmy said:


> Not the only place on a bike with interference fit.


The headset is pressed in. Also, some forks are pressed.


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

KingCrimson said:


> The exploit. That tickles me in ways you don't even know.


Is there really a maker of handlebars out there called XKOOK? Or a maker of front suspension systems called "VORTEX"? :skep:


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## KingCrimson (Jun 26, 2008)

GlassTrain said:


> Is there really a maker of handlebars out there called XKOOK? Or a maker of front suspension systems called "VORTEX"? :skep:


Wish I could remember all the funny engravings on hubs I saw the other week in Walmart.

XKOOK is great though.:thumbsup:


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

KingCrimson said:


> Wish I could remember all the funny engravings on hubs I saw the other week in Walmart.
> 
> XKOOK is great though.:thumbsup:


These have 'Dachang' stamped on them. Did a search on it.

Cixi Dachang bicycle CO.,LTD


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

Slimpee said:


> Today was the first time I thought to look for the "not intended for off-road use" sticker on a dept. store bike. *Lo-and-behold a $299.00 Schwinn FS bike at my local Target had a a sticker reading "Not intended for competition, jumping, or off-road use". *
> 
> THAT'S why dept. store bikes blow.


Not All dept. store bikes are created equal.

I own one of these schwinn full suspension dept. store bikes (S-60 dsx from a year or two ago), even had a sticker that said not to jump it compete on it or ride it offroad. I called pacific, to talk to someone about this sticker, and why it was on there, when the owners manual refered to the bike as a mountain bike. I was told that in the case of the schwinn MTBs, its a liability thing, the bike itself is not nessicarily unsafe to ride off road, assuming everything is in full working order. I bought this bike over something nicer due to having no money. in the late 90s i rode all the time, raced for a team and worked at a bike shop. I've ridden 8000 dollar mountain bikes, and experianced Mt. Tam fireroads on an Ibis Bow-Ti. I know what good bikes ride like. I'm also a professional welder, using both TIG and MIG processes, i have studied basic metalurgy, and understand a lot about fabrication with various different types of metals. i also have education in welding inspection and know how to spot visual weld flaws. from what I've seen in dept. stores, there are some brands, (mongoose, schwinn) that are consistantly better than the other brands (the actual pacific brandname frames, roadmaster, and the like) the welds look better and the overall construction of the frame is better. componentry is always crap, across the board, they might get you by for a little while, but sooner or later, you will be replacing shifters, deraileurs, etc. 
The bike i bought, i bought simply for the frame. its a 7005 series aluminum single pivot full suspension frame, and yes, even the rear swingarm is actually made of aluminum. Of course these bikes in dept stores weigh closer to 40 lbs, and like i said, have terrible components on them. i shaved about 5 pounds off my dept. store bikes weight. i did this by upgrading everything except the handlebars, shifter/brake lever combo, front derailer, and rear brakes. it now weighs in at a svelt (haha) 34 lbs. a lot of the upgrades are with ten year old good parts, the rest with decent modern stuff. the bike now rides like a much more expensive bike. 
my point is, the crimp connected seat stays and chain stays in that pic of the dept store bike are terrible, but its not across the board that you find this type of build quality in all dept store bikes. some of them have halfway decent frames that are in fact, worthy of seeing some trail riding. its just the components that will break and wear out in no time.

dept store bikes are not high quality, and you are better off buying used, or from your LBS. but, they arent always the junk they were 5 or more years back. pacific has actually stepped the quality of these bikes up quite a bit in the past several years.


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## wildtrekker (Sep 2, 2008)

Iridethedirt said:


> Not All dept. store bikes are created equal.
> 
> I own one of these schwinn full suspension dept. store bikes (S-60 dsx from a year or two ago), even had a sticker that said not to jump it compete on it or ride it offroad. I called pacific, to talk to someone about this sticker, and why it was on there, when the owners manual refered to the bike as a mountain bike. I was told that in the case of the schwinn MTBs, its a liability thing, the bike itself is not nessicarily unsafe to ride off road, assuming everything is in full working order. I bought this bike over something nicer due to having no money. in the late 90s i rode all the time, raced for a team and worked at a bike shop. I've ridden 8000 dollar mountain bikes, and experianced Mt. Tam fireroads on an Ibis Bow-Ti. I know what good bikes ride like. I'm also a professional welder, using both TIG and MIG processes, i have studied basic metalurgy, and understand a lot about fabrication with various different types of metals. i also have education in welding inspection and know how to spot visual weld flaws. from what I've seen in dept. stores, there are some brands, (mongoose, schwinn) that are consistantly better than the other brands (the actual pacific brandname frames, roadmaster, and the like) the welds look better and the overall construction of the frame is better. componentry is always crap, across the board, they might get you by for a little while, but sooner or later, you will be replacing shifters, deraileurs, etc.
> The bike i bought, i bought simply for the frame. its a 7005 series aluminum single pivot full suspension frame, and yes, even the rear swingarm is actually made of aluminum. Of course these bikes in dept stores weigh closer to 40 lbs, and like i said, have terrible components on them. i shaved about 5 pounds off my dept. store bikes weight. i did this by upgrading everything except the handlebars, shifter/brake lever combo, front derailer, and rear brakes. it now weighs in at a svelt (haha) 34 lbs. a lot of the upgrades are with ten year old good parts, the rest with decent modern stuff. the bike now rides like a much more expensive bike.
> ...


Back in the Philippines, cycling was and still is a big thing. In the neighborhood that I grew up in building a bike was more common than BUYING one. From there, I was able to gain a lot of experience and determine what to look for in a good quality bike. I needed a bike but money was an issue. I had bought a full suspension bike from SPORTS AUTHORITY, which had had a Y-frame, low-pivot, unified rear triangle. A lot of the components have been replaced except for the fork and shifters (fork - rock shox judy TT, Shimano rapid fire shifters, oh and the rear shock is KindShock). Frame is a 6061 aluminum.

It is an ongoing PROJECT and I have taken it on light trails. It is doing well so far. I am planning to go to a more challenging dirt road just to see what kind of abuse it can REALLY handle. If something in the frame breaks, I will just have to replace it.


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## JAKEEFER (Oct 1, 2008)

OldTeen said:


> A bike ill-suited to you & your riding habits is no bargain.
> After much shopping, I got a GREAT deal on my current hardtail MTB as a close-out on a 2003 model (I paid under half-price at a LBS). Close-outs can save $$$ IF you can find a brand name bike that fits you well.


+1 on the Closeouts... there's always money to be saved if you ask the right questions and your LBS isn't a snob....


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## JAKEEFER (Oct 1, 2008)

Yeah, I worked for a Schwinn deal at the time that all went down.... the current Schwinn's even the premium line... are NOTHING like the old ones... 

Embarrassed to say I sold a Homegrown....


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## JAKEEFER (Oct 1, 2008)

ditto... Wal-Mart bikes are garbage and Wal-Mart ruins your local economy... put a basic bike on lay away or something...


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Masonic said:


> How many 115lb girlz you know
> snappin frames and thrashin parts?


A couple.


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## jsphmy23 (Oct 8, 2008)

I think it's easy to see the difference in the bikes at your LBS vs. Walmart etc. The way I see it, save your money don't waste it. I think people become impatient and just want a quick fix so they drop there money on department store bike. When if they would wait to get that extra 100-200 dollars it could make a world of difference.


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## Fibula (Oct 20, 2008)

My Target.com bike


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

dukeblaster said:


> flat out a dept store bike won't last more than a year, even if riding on roads. If you are at all heavy (over 180) and ride 4-5 times a week, spend at least 300 dollars. Its worth it in the long run. Best beginner bike out there in my opion would be a specialized hardrock (300ish). Heavier but strong too and the frames geometry is pretty nice (it resemebles my P2 fairly closely). My girlfriend has one and i've ridden it around alittle and it hops great and is forgiving on the trail (poor hill climber though). if you want more of X-C bike there are some low end fishers like the marlin that is fairly decent. I'd stay away from dept store bikes all togather (also you cannot usually get service like a bike shop).
> 
> PS do not get a low end dual suspension waste of time and money (you havta spend 1000 plus for a decent one), and stay away from mongoose and schwinn (schwinn's older bmx's are alright though)


I weigh 200 lbs, and started out closer to about 225. I'm on year two, and race 4 with my dept. store schwinn full suspension bike. the frame geometry, and pivot design are based on the same geometry (rear triangle at least) as older 96-98 era full suspension mountain bikes. i know this was not exactly the pinacle of the full suspension movement, however, single pivot works just as well now as it did then. i upgraded wheels, and nearly every component on the bike, before they broke. I rode at least 4 times a week through the summer, logging around 100 miles a week give or take. i would say at least 95% of my riding is truly off road, and includes at least one air of over 18 inches. the bike is not great. i know what a great bike is, i know how they ride. but this bike works, and is not dangerous, and handles OK, and its what i could afford at the time, and upgrade over time and with parts that i already had in my garage. sometimes its not the worst move you can make. definatly not the best, but not the worst either. here's a pic:
http://gallery.mtbr.com/showphoto.php/photo/183465/size/big/cat/500/ppuser/365798


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## DavidNeiles (May 8, 2008)

It is still a very entry level bike, plus your not getting service w/ it and no warranty. It will need a real tune up by a mechanic and how much money did you waste??


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

The Moderators here really should make a STICKY of this well-beat up thread. The cost justification of buying an LBS bike FAR OUTWEIGHS buying a department store MTB replica/toy......because that's all they are. I have seen too many first time MTBers lose interest in this great sport......because their toy broke, after three rides. Hey, I fell for the cheap bike scam too, but I immediately ate my losses and went to a LBS.....and the difference is like night and day. Once you ride equipment made by people who are passionate about riding FIRST- you will never buy a dept store bike ever again. Plain and simple. Why keep pouring money into the economies of Asia, when your LBS has many higher-quality USA made bikes? Even though the US seem to not make great cars- we are now producing some of the world's finest bikes. Yes, it sounds ridiculous to consider spending up to $1000 for your first REAL bike, but the reality is that you will be owning something that will be up to date even five years down the road, with a lifetime repair/service warranty should anything ever go wrong.....which is seldom, on an LBS bike. Let's face it- as with any sport......it is not going to be cheap. Cheap is closely associated with constant failures and disappointment. You really get what you DON'T pay for.........a constant let-down. I am only two short years into this sport, and I have already poured almost $4,000 into my bike. What's the difference here? I ride my bike 8 hours a week, or close to 100 miles, of road/trail riding. As a result, I have lost over 70lbs off my gut- and I look and feel great. My 19-pound XC race bike MAKES me want to ride it every day! Every time I hop on my bike- I am reminded of it's superiority over 90% of bikes out there. Like the BEST gym membership- an LBS bike is totally worthless unless you USE IT. It took me spending $$$ to realize the only way to get a reaonable rate of return, is to simply ride it. 

Who here votes to STICKY this well-worn thread..........so we can all go out and ride more?


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

While I agree with you good sir, I dont see how stickying this will help really, it has turned into a thread of people showing pics of their bikes instead suggesting they buy something else


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*Became a Sticky 06-18-2004, 07:51 PM*

no message.


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*This is*

a sticky, and has been since 06-18-2004, 07:51 PM.

For those that choose not to take advice on buying a simple bicycle of good manuafacture, may they gain some wisdom for making life choices as they move into more complex decisions like work, partners, money, children, and other inevitable choices that will present themselves.

Jim


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## nathan005 (Nov 5, 2008)

4 months ago I was about to buy a $200 FS mongoose from walmart but my buddy took the last one. Lucky for me that happened. My other 2 buddies bought cool looking $250 FS schwinns at target. I ended up spending an $350 for a hardrock at the LBS. Sure they clowned me because my bike didn't have a kickstand and cost a hundred bucks more than theirs. But once we got to the actual trail I was literally running circles around those heavy dept store bikes on my hardrock. We nicknamed the mongoose the "ANVIL", because you could literally feel the weight diff when taking the bikes off the truck. So after frames getting bent and chains falling off my buddies have all bought Hardrocks and their riding has dramatically improved. I just sold my hardrock for 100 bucks less than i paid for it on craiglist and bought a stumpjumper.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

Zachariah said:


> Why keep pouring money into the economies of Asia, when your LBS has many higher-quality USA made bikes? Even though the US seem to not make great cars- we are now producing some of the world's finest bikes.


Ummm...many (and outside the more boutique brands, I'd think most) of the higher quality mass-produced LBS bikes *are* made in Asia.

Also, Americans make fine cars. In fact, for the most part the survey numbers say that US cars hold their own very well against Asian produced vehicles. However, according to JD Powers and Consumer Reports there is a *huge* image problem that US manufactuers have saddled themselves with from years of crappy cars.


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

nathan005 said:


> 4 months ago I was about to buy a $200 FS mongoose from walmart but my buddy took the last one. Lucky for me that happened. My other 2 buddies bought cool looking $250 FS schwinns at target. I ended up spending an $350 for a hardrock at the LBS. Sure they clowned me because my bike didn't have a kickstand and cost a hundred bucks more than theirs. But once we got to the actual trail I was literally running circles around those heavy dept store bikes on my hardrock. We nicknamed the mongoose the "ANVIL", because you could literally feel the weight diff when taking the bikes off the truck. So after frames getting bent and chains falling off my buddies have all bought Hardrocks and their riding has dramatically improved. I just sold my hardrock for 100 bucks less than i paid for it on craiglist and bought a stumpjumper.


 That's funny! I bet you could also hear those squeeky brakes 2 miles away too!


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## eugalc (Nov 15, 2008)

I rode a Mongoose pretty hard for 12+ years. I abused the heck out of it, never did any maintenance, save replace a couple tires and really never had any major problems. The stuff that you would expect to wear out did wear out, but the frame, forks, wheels etc. were all original and intact until the end. I recently upgraded to a Gary Fisher Marlin, a nice bike, probably not nice enough for a bike snob, but for somebody coming off a old Mongoose with no brakes it's a pretty sweet ride. My main reason for upgrading was that the 'Goose was a tank. You had to work real hard to get it up the tougher climbs. Now with the Marlin climbs that were a real challenge in the past are a walk in the park. And the bumps, well the 'Goose had no suspension at all, so everything is real smooth. In the end I'm very happy with my purchase, but also had a blast on the Mongoose and also believe that you don't have to spend a fortune to have a blast on a bike. I used to golf and there were lots of guys on the course with $2,000 worth of clubs in their bags who couldn't break 90 on their best day, thus the clubs nor the bike make the rider.


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## aballz (Sep 12, 2008)

eugalc said:


> I rode a Mongoose pretty hard for 12+ years. I abused the heck out of it, never did any maintenance, save replace a couple tires and really never had any major problems. The stuff that you would expect to wear out did wear out, but the frame, forks, wheels etc. were all original and intact until the end. I recently upgraded to a Gary Fisher Marlin, a nice bike, probably not nice enough for a bike snob, but for somebody coming off a old Mongoose with no brakes it's a pretty sweet ride. My main reason for upgrading was that the 'Goose was a tank. You had to work real hard to get it up the tougher climbs. Now with the Marlin climbs that were a real challenge in the past are a walk in the park. And the bumps, well the 'Goose had no suspension at all, so everything is real smooth. In the end I'm very happy with my purchase, but also had a blast on the Mongoose and also believe that you don't have to spend a fortune to have a blast on a bike. I used to golf and there were lots of guys on the course with $2,000 worth of clubs in their bags who couldn't break 90 on their best day, thus the clubs nor the bike make the rider.


I'm no expert but it sounds like you had a bike from mongoose from the good old days.


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## eugalc (Nov 15, 2008)

Yes, when I bought it I don't think Mongoose had gone Wal-Mart yet. I actually did buy it from a real bike store. I think it was one of the lower end bikes at the time. It was still a bear of a bike though- super heavy, but as I said it sure could take a beating.


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## harry2110 (Oct 18, 2008)

aballz said:


> I'm no expert but it sounds like you had a bike from mongoose from the good old days.


It seems that the quality of department store bike has gone down hill in the past years as my brother has a rigid roadmaster from walmarrt that has lasted almost 6 years while I had to buy a new bike every year.


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## Vissile (Jul 15, 2008)

So, I haven't read most of the posts here, but some of them scare me. A lot.
I'm a bike mechanic of 8 years now, and have seen my share of good and bad bikes. 
Here's a little game I like to play though. 
Wander into your local Walmart or whatever big box store, to the bike section. Lock the front wheel of the bike between your knees, and twist the handlebar as hard as you can. And watch it move! Next, grab the brake lever, and squeeze as hard as you possible can, than squeeze even harder. And watch the brake lever flex and bend all the way to the bar. Or watch one of the brake cable stops snap off the frame. Or watch the brake cable slip through the pinch bolt. 
DO NOT, and I mean DO NOT buy a big box store bike unless you hate yourself and want to die. They are unsafe, mass produced pieces of crap. No research and development go into them, and there are NO safety procedure for their bike builders to follow. They are unsafe, uncomfortable, death traps. And the reason that so many people don't ride. Get someone on a real bike, and they're shocked at how smooth it is, how easy it is, how comfortable it is, etc. Get them on a box store bike; they'll ride it a bit, but hate it and give up.
That's my two cents.
Cheers
Mark


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## Fibula (Oct 20, 2008)

Most of us grew up on these POS bikes and we're still alive to go to the LBS and buy real bikes and continue our passion for riding on and off road. 

As a parent, if they were that dangerous to kids then I would write my Congressmen and get these "death traps" off the store shelves.

I'm not saying these bikes are even halfway decent but you have to consider that there are many people that ride even older, crappier bikes as part of their daily transportation needs while we worry about our unused $90 NEXT or MAGNA collecting dust in our million dollar houses in our fancy gated neighborhoods.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

visser said:


> So, I haven't read most of the posts here, but some of them scare me. A lot.
> I'm a bike mechanic of 8 years now, and have seen my share of good and bad bikes.
> Here's a little game I like to play though.
> Wander into your local Walmart or whatever big box store, to the bike section. Lock the front wheel of the bike between your knees, and twist the handlebar as hard as you can. And watch it move! Next, grab the brake lever, and squeeze as hard as you possible can, than squeeze even harder. And watch the brake lever flex and bend all the way to the bar. Or watch one of the brake cable stops snap off the frame. Or watch the brake cable slip through the pinch bolt.
> ...


Very well put. Like I said before- these toys are nothing but REPLICAS of the real mountain bikes. A complete waste of money, and a product liability nightmare. They are NOT purpose-built, like LBS bikes. Beginners need to realize the majority of bikers who spend the extra cheese for a real bike............cannot ALL BE WRONG! The difference is that we are still riding, and love the sport even more. People who pay for dept. store junk get just that......JUNK. Their bikes collect dust and cobwebs in the garage. Why spend another penny on fixing that broken derailleur/brake cable/crankset etc on the dept.store bike, when a LBS bike just RETURNED all your money back with hours of riding reliability and enjoyment?

There is NO WAY I could have lost 70 pounds of excess fat on my body, with a toy bike. My bike is better than the best gym membership around. Even the finest gym membership is completely useless..........if you never use it. My XC race bike MAKES ME want to ride it over 100 miles a week. They are that good. Every time I hop on my Cannondale- I am instantly reminded of it's superiority over other name-band LBS bikes from Trek, Gary Fisher, Specialized, Marin etc.


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

Update on the Pacific Exploit experiment.....

_Was_ going to use this bike as the 'winter bike'. Took the headset a apart and found that the bearing races were painted over and the bearings have been grinding the paint away. Plus, it took quite a bit of force to remove the locknut because it was installed bone dry. Had to use a crowbar between the fork for some leverage to get it off. Fork ain't right no mo.

The one piece crank was removed, too. Same deal there as well. Painted bearing surfaces. The rear derailer kept bending in towards the wheel. Had to constantly pull it back out straight. So... it came off as well as the rest of the gear junk and I went for the economy singlespeed set up. It has horizontal drop outs. Why not? Right?

Now... I'm having problems with the rear hub. The axle seems bent (as a result of the econo singlespeed experiment, no doubt) and the bearings won't seat properly. It has to be loose so it will turn without binding in one spot.


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## eat_dirt (May 26, 2008)

i think what really is daunting to 'beginner' users is that there is a lot of advice out there, some of which is best left ignored.

this thread, for example, some of the avice in this thread has led me to believe that hard tails are "cheap" and lesser than dual suspension bikes and that bikes are either made of Al or carbon fiber.

oh yes. i should throw my "cheap" cove handjob away because it's a steel hard tail, clearly an inferior and ridiculously heavy bike.

the best advice given to a beginner is to get a bike from a decent LBS that can tell them what they need and how to use it. the first bike will almost always be a throwaway, but learning to upgrade with cheap parts teaches useful skills in trail and home maintenance. don't worry about components too much, they don't need to have pretty stickers all over them and be white, they just need to work reliably and without too much adjustment.

is it wrong to buy an expensive bike as your first bike? probably yes, but that's mainly because you might realise it's not what you need.

i'd just say that the frame needs to fit, the bike needs to shift and brake reliably, and be durable enough that a 20 mile on light to medium trails at a moderate pace won't break anything. if you spent 400-800 on such a bike by the time you've realized that you want something better, you've gotten a lot of fun out of it and can buy a high end machine. then convert your old one to a townie or SS or whatever.

with that said, there's something i need to get off of my chest. hard tails are not CHEAP. they are less expensive because the ass end of the bike doesn't have pivots, swingarms, and an additional shock (which aren't free, so that means the softie will be more expensive as a frame, durr). don't ever be led to believe that a hardtail is a lesser bike than a soft tail.

and i have both, a SS hardtail and a geared softie, and i ride both on trails.

and be honest, if you want a mountain bike to ride around town there's nothing wrong with that, just get yourself some great 1.5'' street tires if you don't plan on leaving the pavement. they'll make you go faster.


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## debusama (Dec 9, 2008)

*think, "off season sales"*

I couldn't agree more (not that my opinion matters). When I was about 11 years old I asked my parents for a mountain bike for Christmas so I could join my schools mountain biking club. The bike club leader/fifth grade teacher urged my parents to buy me a bike from a bike shop rather than K-mart because he said that he had to many trips ruined by broken Huffys. He even eventually stopped allowing students who didn't have a proper bike to join the bike club. My parents were riluctant because they usually didn't spend more than about 100 dollars and had no intension spending 300 on Christmas gifts, but luckily the local bike shop had an off-season clearance sale, and they were able to pick up a Giant Acapulco for $175. At first I was bummed out. All my friends had specialized hard rocks, and at the time, nobody had heard of Giant bicycles. At least the K-mart bike would have had had a suspension fork (which was really cool in 1991). When I actually got to riding, and I saw how often the kids with Huffys were missing bike rides due to their non-functional bikes, I warmed up to my Acapulco.

If I still had contact with my fifth grade teacher, I would thank him for making my parents spend a little extra for a decent bike. I rode that bike constantly, it was my ticket to freedom, main transportation to school, friends houses, and to my first job while I saved up for a car. Now, the frame is a little small, but I have the seat pulled out to the maximum height and I can still ride it. I've put on some street tires, fenders, a luggage rack, and a headlight, and it is still my transportation to work when the weather permits.

It is still possible to get a decent Mt bike (depending on your definition of decent) for about $225) My wife just got one of these during an off-season clearance for that price: http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/hardtails/trailx/09_trailxrw.html Considering that she just wants to ride with me on some very tame dirt-road rides, and ride to work on some days, I think it will do just fine for her for many years to com


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## hilltoprider (Aug 12, 2008)

Really does it matter if you are out riding?
I've seen all the posts about cheap bikes,but if you look in their sig,they have a cheap bike too.I mean come on if you aren't on a 3k bike you aren't doing ****.
I am happy that I had my walmart bike.Would of never gotten into riding or learned how to fix my own.I don't live by a LBS.
I ride with alot of people nowadays,most of them just started in the past year or so.I don't think any of them would of started if they would of had to spend alot of money on a bike.I don't have to preach to them about cheap bikes,if you ride enough you become aware of the lower quality and it's limits.
LBS entry level bikes aren't all that either.Take a good look at the components and wheels....yeah the same if not cheaper than some bigbox store bikes.Sure you get the service and a supposed good bike...I don't know, think I'll buy another online and put it together.It seems if you shop around you can find some great bikes.You just have to put it together.
I guess it boils down to what makes you comfortable;brand,bragging,bargains,riding,posering,being a chump.
I ride and I don't care what brand it is,at least I'm riding.
I have upgraded from my old d60r.The few thousand miles spent riding it let me know what I wanted in a new bike.


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## EndersShadow (Jun 27, 2008)

Zachariah said:


> Every time I hop on my Cannondale- *I am instantly reminded of it's superiority over other name-band LBS bikes from Trek, Gary Fisher, Specialized, Marin etc*.


Um what? Why exactly are you singing the praises of Cannondale here? I don't think this is either the time or the place. Are you trying to turn this very informative thread into a flame war over which brand makes the best bikes?


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## eat_dirt (May 26, 2008)

EndersShadow said:


> Um what? Why exactly are you singing the praises of Cannondale here? I don't think this is either the time or the place. Are you trying to turn this very informative thread into a flame war over which brand makes the best bikes?


yeah, i get offended when people try to elevate one brand over another.

because brand x is NOT better than brand y.

bike x is better than bike y.

all bike manufacturers make great and mediocre bikes. has nothing to do with the brand. in that sense a poorly selected LBS bike may not be the BEST, but that's mostly due to the component group.

and last time i checked the shimano and sram bits on a cannondale work the same as they do on any other bike.

with that said the only c'dales that really stand out are the recent judges and the now dead prophet AM's with the thru axles.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

irregardless of all the Kmart lovers I never recommend junk bikes for beginners. If they like mt. biking they almost immediatley want to upgrade to a better bike. IThe junk bike probably hurt and turn off more new riders than they turn on. I have seen the quality of bikes at Kmart and in now way to they compare to the entry level bikes at a bike shop.
Try reading the warning label on the bikes, that warns not to ride off road.


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## hilltoprider (Aug 12, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> irregardless of all the Kmart lovers I never recommend junk bikes for beginners. If they like mt. biking they almost immediatley want to upgrade to a better bike. IThe junk bike probably hurt and turn off more new riders than they turn on. I have seen the quality of bikes at Kmart and in now way to they compare to the entry level bikes at a bike shop.
> Try reading the warning label on the bikes, that warns not to ride off road.


give me an example of your idea of entry level.Alot of bike breaking has to do with the person on it.If you're an idiot and think you can do what you saw on tv or on these videos without any experience then I guess it wouldn't matter what bike you ride.The sticker on the bikes,I think, that's for liability,How many trained riders buy bikes at bigbox stores?yup none,but there is alot of people who think they are.They get them a entry level bike,ride it like they know what they are doing,then crash.Damn cheap bike,I'm going to sue.lol,CYA we got a sticker on there.
Boils down to using some common sense.You gonna bring your mom's minivan to drag race a 8second car?no,why?it's not made for it.
if you don't like the box store bikes why do you post about it?To show you know something?Oh I see you are the resident bike expert.my bad.
So what's your ride?what was your first ride?how did you get into the sport?
You should spend more time encouraging people to ride what they got instead of dogging them.I know if I had a asshat that talked crap all the time about every bodies bike,He'd be riding somewhere else.
Nope I never once said go buy a bike from wally world.I said ride what you got till you NEED better.Some people are happy riding their huffy on the streets or light trails.Does this mean they aren't enjoying it cause it's a cheap bike?


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

the sticker on the bike is there for a reason, the wheels, suspension and components and yes even the frame is not designed for off road use. with the suspension on these bike, you can easily loose control. 
I post here to offer another point to counter few of people who rave about the Kmart bikes. 
my first bike was a full suspension "97 Trek Y frame bike. this was a dangerouse bike off road as I found out riding on a down hill fire road, It was scarey. I crashed this bike on my fist ride about a block from my house due to silcon still on the tires. My point is you can easily crash anywhere, street, fireroads even in your driveway.
I encourage people to ride and have taken beginners out on their first ride. I still do not recomend Kmart, Target etc bikes for first timers. There is no one there to properly fit them, install wheels correctly, etc. I have received bikes with the wheels installed backward q/r on the right side.


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## hilltoprider (Aug 12, 2008)

"I have received bikes with the wheels installed backward q/r on the right side."

Take the quick release off and stick it in the otherside.

I see now that going out and riding isn't important to many of you.I on the other hand will continue to ride whatever I happen to have.When my buds or a fellow rider needs a hand with their "cheap"bike,I will help them out.It's not about what you ride to me.
The way I look at it is if you know you have a bike that cannot handle what you want it to do,then by all means upgrade.There is no sense ruining a bike,give it to some kid or the goodwill.A walmart bike,to some people,would be better than nothing.


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## aballz (Sep 12, 2008)

This guy seems to have a decent answer in comparing dept. store bikes.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071110054113AAZkHx2


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## SpiritEagle (Dec 22, 2008)

Got a bike about a year ago, from walmart. Have gotten bikes that had no problems of this type before. The rear suspension completely seperated from the frame, cleanly at that. Anyone heard about this before? Bike was a 26 inch Mongoose Xr200.


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## aballz (Sep 12, 2008)

I think there's pictures in the beginning of this thread about that happening. Don't know if it's your exact model though.


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## Big Virgil (Dec 8, 2008)

I had a Schwin Moab from a large scale bike store that was too small for me (i'm 6'5"). It was the biggest frame they had. Definitely more than a W-Mart bike but still low end. I rode it about 400 miles over approx 10 years. Went to a local bike shop (that must be what LBS stands for) and bought a "low-mid" range bike there for $900. It was a 29'er hard tail XL frame. Don't know if it is coincidence, but I rode it the same number of miles I rode my Schwin, but in one year. I have since upgraded to a higher end bike that was a demo at LBS so the price was good for what I got, Niner Jet9, and got $500 out of my old bike since it was only a year old. 

I guess I'm saying I knew I didn't want lowest end, but was able to break into mountain bike riding at almost the low end price. Given my experience.I would definitely not purchase a W-mart/Target bike, and I would recommend a used bike from a reputable bike shop in your area. You can still learn to tinker, but also have free tune-ups and bike shop mechanic as a resource.


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## Harman (Jul 20, 2008)

My dept store bike story:

About 6 months ago I bought myself a bike for commuting. I figure I only have to ride 2 miles one way (to the train station) might as well get the cheapest bike possible. I opt for mountain bike as I want the option of taking it off road. Like a lot of uninformed beginner, I did not do my homework and quickly bought a "GMC Topkick" from amazon. I had a hell of a time to set it up properly and the rear suspension is simply for show and overly stiff. It was hella heavy at 38lb. Despite the "hardtail" like rear suspension, it simply very hard to pedal. I don't know why, it is just a energy hog and I have to pedal a lot harder on this bike. I know the weight could be the reason, but my other beaten up diamonback (which my father in law picked up in a trash site and restored) is similarly heavy but much easier to pedal. It really bug me. Later, I used it heavily to commuting and off-road biking. In the 4th months, the rear derailleur bent into the wheel, destroyed both parts (spokes were bent), front derailleur can't stay in alignment, chain/cassette worn out, brake squalling (I fixed it), and I cracked the shifter in a crash. *sigh* I replaced all the worn parts (including a new wheelset/tires) only to discover the rear derailleur hanger had been bent  I tried to bent it back but not very successful. Now, the thing shift like a piece of sh*t. On the 5th month, I bought a Rockhopper and finally understand the meaning of "Day and Night" difference. It's like a breath of fresh air. 

I still ride that GMC in the mountain. I look at it this way, the hard pedaling action is a good endurance training. Whenever I am on my Rockhopper, I immediately appreciate it's efficiently and speed. One has to go through bad to appreciate the good.


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## N.M rocks foo (Nov 20, 2008)

*fail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

I offer to take my neibers on a bike riding whenever i go and there hasnt been a ride where something hasent broke lets face it dept store bikes arent made for mountain biking and i wasnt takeing them on hard rides


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## yakmastermax (Jan 11, 2009)

well since I already bought this:
can any one recomend things to upgrade that are in the greatest danger of breaking?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

yakmastermax said:


> well since I already bought this:
> can any one recomend things to upgrade that are in the greatest danger of breaking?


Only upgrade things if they actually break, and better yet try to use that warranty on it. It is incredibly cost-ineffective to buy parts, especially when you did not yet learn enough about bike maintenance. It is also quite likely that standard aftermarket parts will not fit.

Ride it into ground and save up on a better bike. By far the best investment you can make is to learn how to build and maintain everything yourself, as you will then save time on maintenance and a lot of money by online shopping. You have already found one of the best sources of collective wisdom (some may argue that of course) on everything MTB related.

Keep it lubed and tuned and all bolts tightened, and have fun.


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## yakmastermax (Jan 11, 2009)

Oh, no, i can maintain it and can easily switch out components, But i want to know if it will be worth it to upgrades the components, or if the frame will just crack eventualy anyway...


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

yakmastermax said:


> Oh, no, i can maintain it and can easily switch out components, But i want to know if it will be worth it to upgrades the components, or if the frame will just crack eventualy anyway...


My guess is it is not worth it at all. Biggest items to upgrade, such as wheelset, drivetrain bits, will set you back for more then you would pay for a good step up bike from places like bikesdirect or on Ebay. I have never sen a dep store bike worth upgrading...

Maybe some lighter tires.. and ghetto tubeless.. There are decently light tires on sale for under $10 in places like Nashbar.

If you can wrench, get next one online...


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## Harman (Jul 20, 2008)

yakmastermax said:


> Oh, no, i can maintain it and can easily switch out components, But i want to know if it will be worth it to upgrades the components, or if the frame will just crack eventualy anyway...


That frame will hold unless you are doing jump and drop. Like others, I also suggest you to ride it to the ground. If you are in a good financial position to buy a new bike, by all means get a new one. Else, just upgrade the part that broke and keep doing it until you buy your next bike. Whether it is worthy to upgrade is really subjective, depends on your perspective on this sport. It is often fun to learn bike maintenance and repair.


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## IWantanFBody (Apr 19, 2008)

Hahaha I love this thread. I'm in the process of upgrading after years of lusting over a FS Cannondale. I've had my Motiv Vortex ($250 from Costco) for years and its been through about four derailleurs, three D. Hangers, new cables all around, all new crankset and a rear shock. All these repairs where done by me due to the very limited lack of funding.
What kept me going through all the breakdowns was the love of mtn biking. If it wasn't for wanting to hit the trails the following day/weekend I prob never would have wanted to fix it. Its pretty much laying right now in the scrap pile stripped to the frame, but over its life its had over 1000 miles on it and passed alot of $1000+ bikes on the trails. 
My advice...if its all you can afford then let your riding speak for itself.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

IWantanFBody said:


> I'm in the process of upgrading after years of lusting over a FS Cannondale. I've had my Motiv Vortex ($250 from Costco) for years and its been through about four derailleurs, three D. Hangers, new cables all around, all new crankset and a rear shock. All these repairs where done by me due to the very limited lack of funding.
> What kept me going through all the breakdowns was the love of mtn biking. If it wasn't for wanting to hit the trails the following day/weekend I prob never would have wanted to fix it. Its pretty much laying right now in the scrap pile stripped to the frame, but over its life its had over 1000 miles on it and passed alot of $1000+ bikes on the trails.
> My advice...if its all you can afford then let your riding speak for itself.


$250 + your replaced parts and your time would have bought something much nicer for around $500.

The point of the thread was that department store bikes are not as much of a bargain as it seems. You do not need a $5000 carbon fiber show-off piece to enjoy MTB (nobody does), but there is a very reasonable level where you can aquire some quite sturdy and well performing piece of kit, especially in the days of internet shopping...


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## SLLIII (Jan 19, 2009)

I wrench at a non-profit community oriented bike shop located in a heavily disinvested urban setting, and I have had the experience of seeing/fixing these low end machines (if you would even call them that) when they're pushed WAY past their intended usage life.

First off the most important factor contributing to longevity in the life of a bicycle is the bikes initial assembly. If your everyday walmart laborer schmuck (sorry) slaps together a pinerello or yeti in the same manner that he might go about assembling a schwinn sidewinder, the $300-10,000 bike ain't going to last much longer than the $120 schwinn. 
The flipside of that is you can get a schwuffy to work decently well (providing you're not riding through acid rain, doing 6' drops or 40mph descents on wet windy bumpy gravel roads) if you take the time to maintain your machine. Sure, plain steel chains/ gears rust and in turn wear faster than your average wundermaterial XTR, so buyer beware. 
A lot of $300 bike shop bikes still come with freewheels which are actually fairly easy to source, and shimano SIS/Acera/altus/alivio crap is the same on Treks as it is on Pacifics. In fact, I would prefer a shimano (better) freewheel on a $300 bike to one equipped with some crap no name freehub body where the pawls freeze up when you're 30 miles from home and you can't move foward in 5degF weather(it has happened to me!). Resin pedals (the same plastic sh*t on $120-$400 bikes) are crap, and frequently break. 
The Spinner/RST forks that come on $300-400 lbs bikes are very very heavy and offer little performance gain for serious trail riding over a rigid fork. 
If you're wanting to know what your first upgrade for your recently purchased walmart mongoose should be (and buying a used gary fisher is out of the cards) take it to your bike shop, and have a GOOD mechanic do a re-assembly. Build a relationship with your mechanic (just as you would with your car). You'll be able to salvage some functionality out of a bad purchase. Lube and then carefully wipe down the drivetrain after riding through crap conditions, check all major moving parts before and after rides. Get tune-ups at intervals of 300-500 miles of regular riding, and every 100-200 miles if you're riding trails. You'll find that this all is very expensive- you can learn to do your own maintenence/ repairs but know that until you learn how to wrench well (it's not really all that hard) you'll probably mess some things up. 
Crappy bikes are MUCH more difficult to work on than expensive ones.:madman:


PS as far as I am concerned Bikesdirect et al does to the performance end of the bicycle market what walmart schwinns do to the rest of the bike market... convince people that they can get something "just as good" for cheaper, then are stuck with crap when it fails.


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## DoinkMobb (Nov 17, 2007)

Good luck to all the teenagers who are trying to convince their parents that they *need* the $500 bike from the bike shop rather than the $100 bike from Target. Tell them the people on the mountain bike forum said a bike that costs 5x more than a Target bike is going to be better in every way. Tell them Target bikes are dangerous and break as soon as they go off-road. Tell them you'll be safer and happier on the bike that costs $500.

And then they'll tell you that their company is doing massive layoffs and they might not have a job in 3 months and that you would be lucky to get a $100 bike from Target.

If you or your parents can't afford the more expensive bike, don't sweat it - buy what you can afford and have fun with it. Contrary to popular belief, dept. store bikes don't explode the instant they touch dirt and they don't emit harmful gamma rays and they won't give you an STD.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

With regards to Target and Wal-Mart bikes- please read that WARNING LABEL.....it's the ONLY thing that's no joke. 

You can either have an expensive TOY...

..or, you can have a DURABLE toy

the choice is YOURS


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## expmars (Dec 3, 2008)

Invest your money. If you want to have something fun and practical you need to have something that will have good re-sale value if you don't like it, or something that will be easy to upgrade if you enjoy mountain biking. Money is hard to come by, but I've grown up in a bike shop and I've seen new dept. store bikes break in a week and $700 Gary Fishers and Cannondales last over a decade of hard riding. Whether it be bicycles or anything else, I save, plan, and make the best investment with what I can get together.

From my experience, supporting dept stores is a poor investment in every respect, especially in bike sales.


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## pacoverde (Nov 13, 2008)

alexw. said:


> I have a trek 3700 now, and i was wishing to spend all of my money (im only 15) on a really good bike. I've gotten really into the sport and i think that i am not all that bad. My bike barely survives my rides, and i am not too eager to buy a cheap bike again...
> but of course i am no expert...any suggestions?


exact same here but im 13 and do 20' jumps with no landing ramps. im liking the giant brass sx for $1100
but i cant get that amount of $ so im getting this dj rig

http://www.mongoose.com/usa/eng/mtn/Products/Mountain-Pavement/Jumping/Details/2702-M9FIR-Fireball :thumbsup:


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## daddycool (Feb 3, 2009)

Can anyone help me !! Im trying to post a thread but dont have a bleedin clue how !!!


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## carlhmartens (Oct 22, 2008)

*Getting sponsored*



harry2110 said:


> First question is how did you get sponsered? I'm 17 and have recently bought my first proper mountain bike. I kept on buying department store bike and would trash them in 6 months at the most and the wheels would last maybe 4 days before i had them warped. Now I'm riding a RMB fusion in blue and white the frame and wheels have so far held up well to the my style of rides(hoping 5in curbs constantly and high speed DH).


Feel free to contact me at [email protected] about getting sponsored.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

daddycool said:


> Can anyone help me !! Im trying to post a thread but dont have a bleedin clue how !!!


Click on "forum tools" in the upper right on the forum page you want to post on.


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## DavidNeiles (May 8, 2008)

*LBS vs Dicks Sporting Goods*

I have worked several LBS for over 8 years and now work at Dick's Sporting Goods for 4 yrs now. I decided to when I moved down to Chattanooga where there are several LBS in the city and surrounding areas. I worked at one for a little while. I never even heard of Dick's Sporting Goods until I was here in Chattanooga. I noticed that they sold bikes and had at that time GT, Mongoose, Diamondback brands. I went into get some info and they hired me on the spot with my experience. I get good benifits and pay. This is why I left the LBS , for a better paying job, health insurance and to turn a wanna be bike shop into a full service bike shop. So far I have had great results with an amazing customer base that grows everyday. A good reputation helps a lot and I see a lot of customers that love to come in and get there bike fixed right at a more affordable price. 
What I am trying to say is that dept. stores like walmart and target sell [email protected] !! There is no customer service, let alone no way to get service after the sale. People that buy these desposable bikes would rather buy a 100 dollar bike every year or so then spend their money on long lasting quality. Don't get me wrong, I do have to sell some POS bikes but I always educate the customer before they buy and get them on the right size and style bike. I do carry a full line of Diamondbacks up to 3000 dollars! At our store we make sure every customer knows about our free 30 day tune up and what all kind of maintaince is needed and that we do it for you. 
Now this is not true at every single Dick's store, but always talk to the bike mechanic there or where ever you shop.

Main point is that you should feel comfortable where you shop and know that there is a bike mechanic working there who actually rides and is knowledgable. Half the battle is not quality of product but the service and proper bike assembly and setup you receive. Customer service is most important at any shop. 
Just shop around and talk to the people working there. Test ride any bike before you buy!!


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

You can get a used good quality bike on craigslist for about the same price as a new Wally Wolrd bike. 

So if you are trying to convince your parents to get the $500 bike and they say well I'm about to get laid off you can have the $100 bike from Walmart, ask them to just give you the $100 instead and go looking on craigslist for a used Trek 820 or something like that. 

A used quality 9 year old bike beats a brand new Wally World bike anyday of the week.


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

yakmastermax said:


> well since I already bought this:
> can any one recomend things to upgrade that are in the greatest danger of breaking?


Like it was said before, upgrade as components break, or as they give you trouble enough to make your ride less than plesant. I wanted to get back into mountain biking after a ten year hiatus, my old bridgestone mb3 was trashed, i quit riding it, and then quit riding all together. I impatiently went to target and bought a schwinn S-60 DSX, and i started riding here and there. it was heavy, had the crummiest fork, and rear shock I'd ever experianced, and the rear deraileur grabbed the spokes one day and said bye bye.... luckily it didnt harm the drop-out. I ended up going through old parts and buying a lot of new ones because i could afford a little here, and a little there, and meanwhile i had a bike that let me go ride some singletrack. you have the same stem and handlebars that came on my bike, replace the stem, the angle of rise on the stem, combined with riser bars make for a twitchy ride at speed. the handlebars are heavy but they will work ok. if the bike gives you trouble shifting, and adjustment just doesnt seem to get it working well, replace the rear deraileur, if you have the cash, go ahead and upgrade the entire drivetrain, a decent crankset from raceface can be had for about 40 bucks give or take,
https://www.blueskycycling.com/view..._medium=feed&utm_campaign=GoogleProductSearch
and will weigh less than half what the cranks that came on the bike do, not to mention are probably twice as strong, you will need a new bottom bracket however. a new better rear deraileur and shifters you can get for under 100. however, the shifting is probably ok, and if you're not breaking parts yet, i would say junk the fork and buy yourself something decent, a dart3, or maybe even go for a rockshox tora, the low end toras are pretty easy to find for about 170, and will further improve the bikes handling, as well as actually work as a suspension fork, the RSTs and OMNIs or whatever crap they put on those bikes are basically a glorified pogo stick. the wheels are another weak point, better than the steel wheels from years past, but not a whole lot stronger, ride that bike on some fun trails for a couple months, huck off a few little jumps and you'll have very out of true wheels. a decent wheelset can be had for about 130 bucks https://stores.channeladvisor.com/cbo/items/item.aspx?itemid=12476694

those few upgrades, 
stem, fork, wheelset, crankset, deraileur, and shifters, probably will cost you more than you paid for that bike. but again, replace as they break, or become unbearable to use any longer. 
that being said, a used bike with a lot of life left, with good parts on it, can be bought for 400 or less pretty easily.
oh, i almost forgot, go buy yourself a GOOD seat, that one is garbage, your butt will thank you after 10 miles on that harsh crummy seat.
so..... its up to you.


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> the sticker on the bike is there for a reason, the wheels, suspension and components and yes even the frame is not designed for off road use. with the suspension on these bike, you can easily loose control.
> I post here to offer another point to counter few of people who rave about the Kmart bikes.
> my first bike was a full suspension "97 Trek Y frame bike. this was a dangerouse bike off road as I found out riding on a down hill fire road, It was scarey. I crashed this bike on my fist ride about a block from my house due to silcon still on the tires. My point is you can easily crash anywhere, street, fireroads even in your driveway.
> I encourage people to ride and have taken beginners out on their first ride. I still do not recomend Kmart, Target etc bikes for first timers. There is no one there to properly fit them, install wheels correctly, etc. I have received bikes with the wheels installed backward q/r on the right side.


HAHAHAHAHA.

ok. well here's a pic of my bike. its a department store schwinn with lots of upgrades. i have a new fork on the way to replace my blown out dart3. I rode this bike in the massanutten super D. i rode it in the wednesdays at wakefield series. through the summer i was putting down an average of 45 miles a week. i regularly take 2 to 3 foot drops/jumps. I hit 30 mph in an open (but bumpy) grassy field on a local trail. I am also a welder/fabricator and have studied metalurgy, as well as welding inspection. if anything, most of the frames on these pacific owned/built schwinns are OVERBUILT. they use straight wall tubing, and its normally fairly thick. they change up materials based on what is available, I've seen my bike built out of both 6061, AND 7005 series aluminum. i opted for the 7005 because i dont know if they heat treat the frames, but i would assume they do... you kind of have to with 6061 (welding takes approx. 50% of the tensile strength of the metal away, artificial aging/heat treating is required to restore the strength to the heat effected zones caused by welding) the frames are STILL TIG welded by hand in these pacific factories. I had that sticker that says "dont jump, or ride offroad" on my bike when i bought it. i called pacific and asked them what the reason for that sticker is. reading between the lines its essentially because, yes, the forks, and wheelsets are not expected to see serious offroad abuse. the frames however, just as i suspected, were not a concern.

I see people at wakefield park here in the DC metro area on all kinds of bikes. 5000 dollar carbon fiber multi-link long travel lightweight fancy as hell bikes, and 200 dollar mongooses from wally-world. my favorite is when i see a kid ripping it up on one of these el-cheapo bikes.... or better yet, watching them pass the weight weenie on his 20 lbs XC race bike......

bikes dont ride themselves, and while i completly understand the benefit and reason for GOOD parts/frames etc... I also understand that some people just want to ride, and are not patient enough to wait for that good craigslist deal, or build up that frame they got for a steal of a price... they want to RIDE NOW! and can you blame them for that? its about riding, not showing off your high dollar gear.... again, i get it, buy it nice or buy it twice, but in the end, isnt it about riding the dirt and having fun?
and btw: what the hell is wrong with a trek Y frame? those bikes were great fun, i rode one of those a few times, as well as a gary fisher level betty when those came out... tons of fun, quality bikes.... some guys can break anything and crash on anything... mash the gears while you shift and see how fast you go through chains/cassettes.... case logs when you try to hop them and see how many pinch flats you get, and how often your wheels need truing. ride smooth and these things dont happen.....
RIDER means more than BIKE


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

DoinkMobb said:


> Good luck to all the teenagers who are trying to convince their parents that they *need* the $500 bike from the bike shop rather than the $100 bike from Target.


This thread is directed to parents, and generally to people with a clue.

I am sure my kids would not need to convince me in anything. My daughter started on a $300 balance/convertible 14" bike, and not because I have money to burn, but because nobody deserves suffering through some heavy, ugly crap and losing interest for the sport for the whole life..

As far as teenagers, putting a kid on a bike that can not be safely taken off-road is child endangerment. It is borderline criminal negligence.


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## firstlast (Jan 29, 2009)

*walmart schwinn aluminum comp le*

I know someone's going to come by and bash my posting, but i've actually had somewhat of a positive experience w/ a dept store bike. now that's ONE bike, and maybe i got that one _*"Wednesday bike"*_ but it was the first bike since i was a teenager riding a bmx/freestyle gt dyno and pro compe...

About 7 yrs ago, when i first moved to where i'm at now, this was before ebay was an option, and i wasnt familiar w/ the lbs, being too new to the area, i went out to the local walmrt one night after work and bought an aluminum schwinn comp le (or something similar), it was the nicest bike they carried at the time in _my_ local store. It was light compared to some of the other cheaper bikes they had lined up next to it and fortunately fit me well. i think i paid about $170 for it. I'm 173lbs btw. I used it mainly on sidewalks 90% and bike paths and some light trails 10%. I made the purchase mainly because i wanted something fun to do and it also allowed me to explore the town, and also be active.

Anyways in the 7 years that i've owned it, i've done all the maintenance myself, (thanks to the extremely detailed owner's manual) which until the last year included only the brakes (5-6 times) and rear dérailleur (3? times)... only a handful of times. Now keep in mind most of my riding was done on smooth terrain _But_ I rode the hell out of that thing and everywhere, I was in a new and growing town w/ no previous acquaintances (Our company was subcontracted to do the property management for the govt bldings in this new and growing area and so i was from out of state) which just means i had a lot of spare time. Caring for it meant, a wash down at my apt complex's car wash port once in awhile, and a liberal spraying of wd-40 or some silicone lubrication spray that we had laying around on all moving parts.... i know, i know...this was before i knew better. I also kept it stored outside in our screened in porch, summer, winter, whatever in florida. The point i'm making is that my care and treatment for it was though not horrible was"rugged". But as far as I knew it rode, shifted, and braked well and took me away and always faithfully got me back after an excursion.

It wasn't until this past year that I just wanted another bike. Nothing was really wrong w/ my old bike, but the wheels needed "slight" trueing but still rode fine, and i'd have hiccups getting into the highest and lowest gears, which honestly dont use that often anyways... and i just finally wanted a "nicer" bike.

Anyways, instead of doing the dept store thing over again which i did consider, (which did actually end up working out for me) i also looked at sports authority and dicks, but in the end I decided to get a nice bike from an lbs. i looked into the gary fisher, haros, and decided on a specialized rockhopper( i know its not the nicest or best but its the nicest i've ever owned and felt i could slowly build on) and I ended up getting a like new specialized rockhopper comp ridden a handful of times, w/ v brakes and deore and lx components for $300 from someone who perhaps had the money and decided they were more into road bikes than mountain bikes.... so in the end i paid $130 more than my original walmrt bike... and though the measurements and size - dimensionally were very similar to my old dept store bike, my rockhopper somehow feels .... better - which i know now is because of the geometry. It's also faster, smoother and feels a tad lighter and climbs amazingly ... and though that could all be mental i dont believe it. I could from the moment i sat down and took it for a ride, just around the block, immediately tell a difference in quality, everything just seemed a bit more polished. .... now i'm not bashing my old bike but I can def tell a diff. I've also been able to take it out more off-road which I've just recently discovered due to some trails close by and taken it off a few small jumps 1-2 ft, that I would in all honesty be afraid to on my old bike.

Now before anyone tells me i'm full of sh^t, i have no reason to lie and love my new bike and highly recommend the nicer bikes if you plan on doing more off road stuff, and even if you dont, you'll be able to tell a difference, and i could've been that lucky one in a million, but i just recently bought my gf the girl version of the same dept store bike i had, and because she rides on paved paths and roads, it suits her purposes and needs more than adequately enough... and for basic maintenance I can do the work myself... so far so good.

So anyways its not ALL bad when dealing w/ dept stores. I say go w/ what kind of riding is going to suit you and also what you can afford from what is available. I wouldnt recommend a dept store mountain bike for actual mountain biking, but for mostly around town and paved riding trips, commuter, and light trails, I dont think its all that bad an idea, especially if you can't find a name brand one used for the same price, or absolutely dont have the money, or if you're not sure it'll be more than just a phase.

I'm just saying it can be an option if you are aware of what you are getting and its realistic potential and limitations.

I still have that schwinn, though its been repainted since, and derailleurs readjusted, sitting in the garage and still rides great... though honestly haven't ridden it more than twice since getting my rockhopper. BTW i changed my rockhopper seat w/ my old broke in schwinn saddle, which believe it or not is much more comfortable, The only thing that bothers me is that it doesn't look right on the specialized and so am currently looking at the charge spoon saddle to replace it w/.

--another point to keep in mind is that i'm much more worried about it getting stolen now too, now that i use the specialized for commuting trips to school still.... guess it comes w/ the territory and hope the lock which i didn't scrimp on performs its duty. so far so good.

-cheers 

---here are some pics of it. still not a bad looking and riding bike. thinking of getting a nicer stem and repainting it white, just to have something different.









By firstmiddlelast at 2009-02-23









By firstmiddlelast at 2009-02-23


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## theshore_KING (Apr 4, 2008)

harry2110 said:


> It not really a true DH its more of sidewalk that are atleast 20 years old that have 6-7in sudden drops and broken pavement that juts up a couple inches and a couple that drop off the curb into a 12in deep pot hole that and the fact is the street is very steep and long. I got up to 35mph on the smoother section. It's more of an urban DH


Um kid sorry to disappoint you but I wouldn't call that even 'urban' downhill until you start doing 2-4 foot drops of bigger. seriously! I mean 12 inches is nothing comon!  Watch the DH pros and you'll see what I mean


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## theshore_KING (Apr 4, 2008)

Speedub.Nate said:


> I've always considered Consumer Reports is a very trustworthy resource, but their reviews & articles at times leave something to be desired. I think sometimes they rely on their respected ratings matrix to make up for less-than thorough write-ups.
> 
> A good site to supplement the CR link is "Bikes R Not Toys" at...
> 
> www.BikesRNotToys.com


Personally I have bought all my bikes by checking the reviews here at mtbr.com. Seriously they are some of the best reveiws on thousands of bikes with owners who tell you what it is actually like. I would stick to mtbr.com for your review needs.


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## comfort biker (Feb 28, 2009)

I couldn't agree more kirill. My first bike was a dept. store special, Huffy. It worked fine for a beginner who couldn't afford $400 on a bike - especially when I wasn't totally sure I was going to get into this.

Now I am hooked and last year I got a Cadillac AVS Adventure bike. The ride is a TON better but I think I notice it only b/c I'm not a beginner anymore. If your just getting started and on a tight budget, make sure you are going to get into this before spending the big bucks.

Once you're addicted to riding, you'll find plenty of things to spend money on! lol.

Happy Riding!


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## aDaug (Feb 3, 2009)

**sigh**

I would laugh till my sides hurt comfortbiker if I saw you on the trails on that bike. The only reason I'm not laughing now is because lame cons and internet "shop" reps keep posting in this thread hoping to catch one of our new friends in a bad deal. As you can tell that gets me so riled up that I cant laugh at you...yet. BTW, that caddy bike might be worth paying 150 for, not 450.


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## harry2110 (Oct 18, 2008)

theshore_KING said:


> Um kid sorry to disappoint you but I wouldn't call that even 'urban' downhill until you start doing 2-4 foot drops of bigger. seriously! I mean 12 inches is nothing comon!  Watch the DH pros and you'll see what I mean


Ive just seen that stuff and Its a lot on a cheap mongoose with only 2-3in of travel or a hardtail. I could easily handle the big stuff if I had a bigger suspension.


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## pedalitup (May 30, 2007)

*Reply 431*

Since I'm reply four thirty one. Check out this 4130 beginners bike I just finished up for my grandson. If I was prone to pride I would stil post it, but theres a lot more to this than that. . .

It's blowin a steady 20 mph out today so I'm stuck here when I was plannin to ride, having finihed this resto project a bit early, havin' gained said skillset through years of this kinda winter work.

I won't need to be commenting on "dept stores", now will I?

Get a quality used bike, tear it up and restore it to mint condition. You won't regret it.


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## mikedirectory2 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Cheap Bikes*

I would caution beginners who have a habit of not following through with new things. It might be better to start with an inexpensive bike and then upgrading with they are truly committed.



gregg said:


> (Thanks to JimC for the link)
> 
> An excellent article at ConsumerReports.org titled "Cheap bikes are not bargains"
> 
> ...


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

mikedirectory2 said:


> I would caution beginners who have a habit of not following through with new things. It might be better to start with an inexpensive bike and then upgrading with they are truly committed.


I think the point of this thread was that being a "truly committed" mountain biker on a bike that is not fit for off-road use, as written on it in big bold letters, is just flat out dangerous.

Nobody is suggesting a $3K investment.


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## Ghost_Stalker (Mar 30, 2009)

Hi, well I found your statement interesting because I am new to this as many are. I was wondering what I should do or be looking for while I look to buy a bike, I am 5'6'' 170LBS and have a limited budget about $300 (hey the Army does not pay that well) and I don't want crap, and I can always add on better parts but I believe I should be looking for a light and strong frame (duh) how should i go about this anyone's help would be great,also where I live their are like two shops one is a Specialized dealer and the other one carries haro and some other brand, thanks


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## redarm1 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Amendment to my previous*

Ok, so I wiped out on my old Walmart bike (blackcomb) and well, it is pretty nasty. 
Im fine, but the bike... well, not so much.

I have switched to a Diamondback Response. This bike seems to be a bit sturdier than the Wallmart version of a mongoose. Ive taken this bike of some decent (but not insane) drops and through a few gnarly rock gardens. It is tough and nimble, and quite asthetically pleasing! Besides, it alleviates the shame of having your friends on 1200 -1500 dollar bikes laugh at you because you bought cheap!

Anyway, I would say the response would be a good choice for a beginner, or a larger individual (im toppin 250 btw).

Hope this helps.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

redarm1 said:


> Ok, so I wiped out on my old Walmart bike (blackcomb) and well, it is pretty nasty.
> Im fine, but the bike... well, not so much.
> 
> I have switched to a Diamondback Response. This bike seems to be a bit sturdier than the Wallmart version of a mongoose. Ive taken this bike of some decent (but not insane) drops and through a few gnarly rock gardens. It is tough and nimble, and quite asthetically pleasing! Besides, it alleviates the shame of having your friends on 1200 -1500 dollar bikes laugh at you because you bought cheap!
> ...


Even a decent bike may be dangerous if used beyond its design limits - like this one that author of the following post used to race in Downieville

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=5534689&postcount=15

Do you want be riding a bike when it snaps like that?


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

Ghost_Stalker said:


> Hi, well I found your statement interesting because I am new to this as many are. I was wondering what I should do or be looking for while I look to buy a bike, I am 5'6'' 170LBS and have a limited budget about $300 (hey the Army does not pay that well) and I don't want crap, and I can always add on better parts but I believe I should be looking for a light and strong frame (duh) how should i go about this anyone's help would be great, thanks


Hi Ghost_Stalker. Just a suggestion, but you might want to post this as its own thread in the Beginner's Corner. More people are likely to see it that way. Also, kinda scroll through other posts in this forum because a lot of people ask this question, and you might get some ideas that way.

The basic bottom line is that people are going to tell you to go to a shop and look at the entry level bikes they carry. You will probably end up spending just a tad more than $300, but it'll be worth it because you'll be safer and enjoy the ride that much more.

I started riding about 8 months ago, and at the time I was adamant about not spending more than $200 on a bike. I had even picked out a Schwinn at Academy, but my boyfriend forced me to go to a real bike shop. I'm so glad because I ended up getting a Specialized Myka (the girl's version of their Hardrock) for $369. Please believe me when I tell you that even after just riding the Schwinn up and down the aisles at the store, and the Myka in the parking lot, it was like the difference between a Ford Ranger (the Schwinn) and an F-350 (the Myka). EVERYTHING about the Myka was better - especially considering the brakes on the Schwinn were routed backwards. 

All of the major brands will have an entry level bike right around $300-$400. They don't have the best components in the world, but they will be completely suitable for riding on trails. Try to ride everything in your price range - even if it means visiting several shops. You could even put it on layaway if you found something just a little bit out of your reach. Good luck and don't forget to budget for stuff like a helmet, gloves, spare tubes, a pump, etc.


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## wildtrekker (Sep 2, 2008)

Ghost_Stalker said:


> Hi, well I found your statement interesting because I am new to this as many are. I was wondering what I should do or be looking for while I look to buy a bike, I am 5'6'' 170LBS and have a limited budget about $300 (hey the Army does not pay that well) and I don't want crap, and I can always add on better parts but I believe I should be looking for a light and strong frame (duh) how should i go about this anyone's help would be great,also where I live their are like two shops one is a Specialized dealer and the other one carries haro and some other brand, thanks


You might want to define your riding style first. City Biking? Light to med Trails? Downhill racing? Do you like cross-country? Like me, for example, I am more of a commuter but I do light trails as well from time to time.

Is there a Performance Bike Shop close to you? Check their website, they usually have something on sale. They usually have something below $300.00.

Ever considered a used bike? Check Craig's List website. I have seen some used but fairly decent bicycles there (Haro, Trek, Mongoos, Bianchi, etc).

Hope this helps.

Good luck.


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## wildtrekker (Sep 2, 2008)

Ghost_Stalker said:


> Hi, well I found your statement interesting because I am new to this as many are. I was wondering what I should do or be looking for while I look to buy a bike, I am 5'6'' 170LBS and have a limited budget about $300 (hey the Army does not pay that well) and I don't want crap, and I can always add on better parts but I believe I should be looking for a light and strong frame (duh) how should i go about this anyone's help would be great,also where I live their are like two shops one is a Specialized dealer and the other one carries haro and some other brand, thanks


This might help.

Check this link:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=25170&estore_ID=2092


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## DoinkMobb (Nov 17, 2007)

Curmy said:


> This thread is directed to parents, and generally to people with a clue.
> 
> I am sure my kids would not need to convince me in anything. My daughter started on a $300 balance/convertible 14" bike, and not because I have money to burn, but because nobody deserves suffering through some heavy, ugly crap and losing interest for the sport for the whole life..
> 
> As far as teenagers, putting a kid on a bike that can not be safely taken off-road is child endangerment. It is borderline criminal negligence.


I had Kmart bikes all my life. Even after cracking the stem and planting the sharp metal end into my leg, my parents continued to get me Kmart bikes. I would have liked to have seen you or any other biking aficianado tell my parents that it was "borderline criminal negligence" and "child endangerment" to put me on a crappy bike. There was no way in hell they were going to get me an expensive quality bike that wouldn't shatter jumping off curbs.

Most of us were destined to have crap bikes from Walmart and Target. We had cheap parents who were not about to be convinced to spend a lot of money for a kid's bike. And when we asked for a mountain bike we were told "you don't need a mountain bike, there's no mountains around here." Thanks mom.

The moral of the story is: be thankful for whatever bike your parents buy you/you can afford yourself.

But yeah, a used quality bike is probably better than a new dept. store bike...


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## crash3400 (Apr 6, 2009)

Ghost_Stalker said:


> Hi, well I found your statement interesting because I am new to this as many are. I was wondering what I should do or be looking for while I look to buy a bike, I am 5'6'' 170LBS and have a limited budget about $300 (hey the Army does not pay that well) and I don't want crap, and I can always add on better parts but I believe I should be looking for a light and strong frame (duh) how should i go about this anyone's help would be great,also where I live their are like two shops one is a Specialized dealer and the other one carries haro and some other brand, thanks


Ghost - i might get strung up for saying this... but i'm working on a budget too, and building from the ground up. buying a used bike that you test can get you by for awhile, as long as you make sure the wheels aren't going to fall off immediately. that way you can bide your time upgrading components and customizing. somewhere like http://www.setteusa.com/ can get you a good quality frame for pretty cheap, and there are plenty of sites/stores for components.


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## BCMichel (Apr 8, 2009)

wildtrekker said:


> Is there a Performance Bike Shop close to you? Check their website, they usually have something on sale. They usually have something below $300.00.


This is the case for the bike store where I bought my bike. They usually have a few bikes in the $200-$300 range. They also offer lifetime tune-ups for their bikes, which is a great bonus. Who is going to help you when you buy your bike at Walmart?

Also, timing is everything. You have to know when to buy. I got a great deal on my bike (Jamis Dakar XC) because I bought it last fall, early October, when they were clearing out their 2008 bikes. Living in northern Canada, there is not much of a market for setting bikes in the winter :cornut: This means, of course, that you can sometimes find a good entry level bike being sold 30-40% off the regular season price if you buy just before winter.

I also like the fact that I am helping out a local business. All the people in our four local shops are extremely friendly and they give a 10% discount to the members of the local cycling club.


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## tsunamijoel (Apr 10, 2009)

*Beginner*

Hi,

So I've never done any kind of mountain biking before in my life. My only biking experience is biking to the beach on my cruiser about 10 miles every weekend. However I'm going to college in boulder this fall and wanted to get into mountain biking. I figure I should probably spend $500-$800 and get a pretty decent bike, probably one that I could upgrade if I want or need to. Does this seem like a price range where I could get a good bike? And then any suggestions for good bikes?? Thanks


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

tsunamijoel said:


> Hi,
> 
> So I've never done any kind of mountain biking before in my life. My only biking experience is biking to the beach on my cruiser about 10 miles every weekend. However I'm going to college in boulder this fall and wanted to get into mountain biking. I figure I should probably spend $500-$800 and get a pretty decent bike, probably one that I could upgrade if I want or need to. Does this seem like a price range where I could get a good bike? And then any suggestions for good bikes?? Thanks


That's the perfect budget for a quality entry-level bike.  My suggestion would be to go to the websites for Specialized, Cannondale, Trek, Gary Fisher, Kona, Jamis, Haro, Fuji, Marin, GT, and Giant and look at their Hard Tail bikes to get an idea about what you like. Then, hit up the local bike shops and start testing them out. There are more brands as I'm sure you'll find out once you go to the shops, but this'll get you started.  The right bike isn't the one with the sweetest paint job, or the top of the line components; it's the one that feels....right. Good luck and come back with any questions you might have.


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## BCMichel (Apr 8, 2009)

tsunamijoel said:


> Hi,
> Does this seem like a price range where I could get a good bike? And then any suggestions for good bikes?? Thanks


As Swthrtsuzy noted, this is the ideal price range for a good entry-level bike. I would check out some of your local stores and see what they are offering. Also, the reviews on this site are simply THE BEST :thumbsup: I studied them carefully before buying my bike (the 2008 Jamis Dakar XC that I bought on sale in Canada for $700 CDN).


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## scofo (Apr 10, 2009)

My first bike as an adult was a pot metal walmart bike. It fell apart quickly and i was pretty disgusted with it. Then I ran into a friend who had a Trek and he convinced me to try one. I worked my butt off for the $320 I needed to buy my brand new Trek 820. I LOVED that bike. I rode it in mud, dirt, grass, water, and concrete, and then some jerk stole it while I was in class. It was a while before I could afford another bike but I was determined not to waste my money on the terd bikes at Walmart again. At last i was able to set enough aside to pick up a new Trek 3700 which I still have. I took my nephew and his full -suspension Wally World Mongoose out to the park when he was 10,a nd his bike weighed double what my 3700 weighed, no joke. I could scarcely believe how heavy the thing was. The 3700 was the same deal.. rode it through everything and after 3 years of the state park rock trails bashing it up, I am about to take delivery of my brand new Trek 6700 with juicy brakes, and decent components throughout. I cant WAIT. The point is, $300 isnt a freakin fortune. Anyone, including a teenager, can get it if its a priority. When it comes to bikes, it should be. The experience is get-waht-you-pay-for.


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## BicyclePartsWholesaler (Apr 9, 2009)

I recommend, before buying a dept.store bike, go to your local bike store and ask for used or demo bikes. When I had my store, I sold plenty used bike from customers that leave as trade ins. Some bicycles their retail bike as new cost 899.00 and used we sell at $250 to $300


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## BCMichel (Apr 8, 2009)

The buying a used bike from a local bike store would be a great option. If it is a reputable shop, they would certainly strive to make sure it is in good shape before selling it. 

Also, I believe that the greatest advantage for a newby buying a bicycle from a local bike store is that they will invariably have a bike mechanic on the premises. It is good to have someone you can trust to do tune-ups or make minor repairs. Who can do that a Walmart if your bike break downs after the warranty runs out?


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## BicyclePartsWholesaler (Apr 9, 2009)

You can ride with her in a Tandem Mountain Bike.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

I feel pretty lucky for not having to experience the wally world nightmares... I grew up owning a bunch of schwinns, and broke my share of parts, but nothing like frames separating... it was the murray bikes that I saw break all the time...

For anyone having problems with their parents buying cheap stuff, Id have to say it was my passion for cycling that helped me avoid those kind of situations... I did all my own maintenance by the time I was 12, and whenever we went out of town I was always wanting to check out the LBS during the trip back home... If your parents don't get the hint, then maybe get a job to help pay for the bike...


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## druranium (Apr 6, 2007)

visser said:


> So, I haven't read most of the posts here, but some of them scare me. A lot.
> I'm a bike mechanic of 8 years now, and have seen my share of good and bad bikes.
> Here's a little game I like to play though.
> Wander into your local Walmart or whatever big box store, to the bike section. Lock the front wheel of the bike between your knees, and twist the handlebar as hard as you can. And watch it move! Next, grab the brake lever, and squeeze as hard as you possible can, than squeeze even harder. And watch the brake lever flex and bend all the way to the bar. Or watch one of the brake cable stops snap off the frame. Or watch the brake cable slip through the pinch bolt.
> ...


YEAH!

I was just thinking the other day about my first mountain bike ride 10 years ago. It was on a Motiv bike from costco (remember those  )
Of course something in the rear triangle was bent cause my brother rode it first and it couldn't be coaxed to shift reasonably even after hours of attempted adjustment.
I just remember hating every second of the ride and feeling angry, uncomfortable, and embarassed that I couldn't make the damn bike go where I needed it to. (As others were staring at me from the top of every hill)
And I never wanted to mountain bike again.
A year later I got a proper hardtail w/ decent components and an old marzocchi z5 fork and finally learned to ride.
After I found a kona bear frame on ebay for 300 bucks and built that up, I was in heaven
That motiv was such a piece of she at


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## ELS1976 (Apr 24, 2009)

Hey, newbie to this site. Just giving my two cents worth on this thread. When I started to bike, I got very lucky and got a Specialized 415 from my boyfriend at the time (he was getting a new bike). I floved! the hell out of that bike and it broke my heart when it was stolen a few years later. I lived in Chicago at the time and it was my main mode of transportation (no worries about those huge mountains in chicago ;P ) From then on, I kept two bikes. I'm a specialized junkie, so of course that's my nice bike for actual trail riding, and now that I'm a recent transplant to Nashville, I'm about to start hitting their trails. I also keep a junker bike for around the town type travel. Usually it is a big box brand but purchased off of a friend or from craigslist for under 50 bucks. After my nice bike was stolen, I figured if someone was gonna rip my bike off while I was at work, they might as well take the crappy one. My current junker is a Huffy one of my friends got at target. She sold it to me for 10 bucks. I guess my point is, if you also bike as a form of normal transportation, there is some value in having a crappy big box brand especially if you live in a place that has a high incidence of bike theft.

P.S. I have a want ad out for the women's specialized hardrock 2005. Really dig the lavendar and black flames. If you got a line on one, let me know.


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## shinedown (Apr 26, 2009)

Come on guys, I have a sweet $125 Huffy that I bought 10 years ago have never done any repairs too, I am 6'4'' 250#. 

Ok I am joking on everything but my size. I would destroy a walmart bike. I just got into "serious" trail riding last year. I went to my LBS and told them I knew nothing about bikes. They could have easily sold me a $2500 bike, instead I got a entry level Trek 4300 disc, now after a year of riding I upgraded quite a bit to a Trek Fuel EX 9.8. 

I think the best part of the LBS is the service I get called by name when I walk in. They have my business for life I go there just to hang out and learn some basic bike repair skills. If I went in to walmart I would feel like yet another number.


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## sgt_etool (May 5, 2009)

*from "Quest" to "Rockhopper"*

I started with the Sports Authority special "Quest" to "Rockhopper" - though the Quest did served me well and have pretty good handling and such from beginners trail to technical. However, upgrading to Rockhopper made a huge difference from handling to weight itself (the Quest weighs a ton compare to RH!). Specially, the size of RH is more appropriate for my stature while Quest is the common "one size fits all" bike - no more painful neck and back! Putting eggbeaters helps a bunch, as well.

Now, I'm giving the Quest to my brother.

The Quest - My "FNG" Bike!









The Upgrade - '08 Rockhopper (Marine Corps Green..and just got the new green Mullet by 661)


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## BCTXFool (May 16, 2009)

Im the sole rider for team Supercycle. Im too rad. 

My Supercycle Burner > your _______ (*insert favorite bike / brand)


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## BCTXFool (May 16, 2009)

I had to run the other day, when I posted that ^, so had to write somethin quickly, but, really, I havent ridden any kind of mountain bike except for my Supercycle, yet, and already know, from my experience with BMX bikes, growin' up, that theres a big difference in a Wal Mart / Canadian Tire / ___________ (*insert other big chain store), bike, and somethin from a shop. My bike is fun to ride, but its so damn heavy, and the gears never catch right.. Always stuck jumpin off of it when climbing, or risk rollin backwards lol.. 

I was gonna settle for this for awhile, and let my wife get her somethin to ride (getting a new Haro comfort model, just to ride around town w me and the kids..), 1st, but a neighbor of ours, that I just met recently, found out that Im interested in mountain biking, and........ um, *teary eyed, sniffling* gave me a real full suspension frame and handlebars, and some more parts.. I have no idea what kind of bike it is, yet, but, wow, it seems to be a real deal somethin or another.. All aluminum.. 

Thanks, neighbor (even though Im sure he doesnt post on here..), you saved me some dinero. Cant wait to ride my fav local trails (that I just found 2 days ago...) on my new bike, whatever the hell it is.. Not the same technology with this suspension on here, at all, compared to the Supercycle "full suspension"..


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

the elitist attitude you get from people on here and bikeforum.com is amazing. While im not gona sit here and argue the fact that some xmart brand bikes are just plain junk, there are plenty of xmart bikes out there that ride just fine for your average person. Not everyone intends to be jumping off 40 foot ramps in the middle of the rocky mountains like some of the people you talk to online who are advising beginners to pay upwards of 500 or more for a used craigslist bike. I hadnt ridden a bike in 10 years when i made my purchase a few weeks ago for my 2008 Olpran Patriot i got off ebay. I spent years riding, jumping, and doing just about every off road thing you could imagine, on a freakin huffy when i was a kid. Hell my first bike was a murry if you remember those, and i never had any catastrophic failures like everyone claims is gona happen if you go out and buy a walmart bike.

If your a beginner and your looking to go purchase a new bike, manage your budget appropriately, do your research, and find the best deal you can with quality parts. The parts on the bike do make a difference i can attest to that. Some of the more aggressive stuff ive been doing lately has caused my el cheapo brake system to fail on this olpran because of the plastic parts used in a no name brand system. I spent 40 dollars replacing the entire system with parts from avid and ive never been happier. But that is the ONLY weak spot on this bike. The rest of the parts are the same quality stuff you hear people raving about on all the bike forums.

Word of advise to all the beginners who are running into the forum elitist bikers out there, buy within your budget, but use common sense and do your research on what is the best to buy. It does pay off in the end. And if your into tuning and mechanically inclined toys are what you love, sometimes it pays to buy a cheap buy, cus you get to have all sorts of fun fixing things sometimes


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## EndersShadow (Jun 27, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> the elitist attitude you get from people on here and bikeforum.com is amazing. While im not gona sit here and argue the fact that some xmart brand bikes are just plain junk, there are plenty of xmart bikes out there that ride just fine for your average person. Not everyone intends to be jumping off 40 foot ramps in the middle of the rocky mountains like some of the people you talk to online who are advising beginners to pay upwards of 500 or more for a used craigslist bike. I hadnt ridden a bike in 10 years when i made my purchase a few weeks ago for my 2008 Olpran Patriot i got off ebay. I spent years riding, jumping, and doing just about every off road thing you could imagine, on a freakin huffy when i was a kid. Hell my first bike was a murry if you remember those, and i never had any catastrophic failures like everyone claims is gona happen if you go out and buy a walmart bike.
> 
> If your a beginner and your looking to go purchase a new bike, manage your budget appropriately, do your research, and find the best deal you can with quality parts. The parts on the bike do make a difference i can attest to that. Some of the more aggressive stuff ive been doing lately has caused my el cheapo brake system to fail on this olpran because of the plastic parts used in a no name brand system. I spent 40 dollars replacing the entire system with parts from avid and ive never been happier. But that is the ONLY weak spot on this bike. The rest of the parts are the same quality stuff you hear people raving about on all the bike forums.
> 
> Word of advise to all the beginners who are running into the forum elitist bikers out there, buy within your budget, but use common sense and do your research on what is the best to buy. It does pay off in the end. And if your into tuning and mechanically inclined toys are what you love, sometimes it pays to buy a cheap buy, cus you get to have all sorts of fun fixing things sometimes


That Walmart special you had isn't the same kind of bike you find today at WalMart. You rode a hardtail back in the day...atleast I can pretty much guarantee that. Today's Wally world bikes are almost always full suspension. When you factor in all those moving parts and how cheap said parts are, you get catastrophic failure much more often. That is why all these "elitist's" say to stay FAR away from Walmart bikes. It's not elitism...it's common sense to those in the know.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

EndersShadow said:


> That Walmart special you had isn't the same kind of bike you find today at WalMart. You rode a hardtail back in the day...atleast I can pretty much guarantee that. Today's Wally world bikes are almost always full suspension. When you factor in all those moving parts and how cheap said parts are, you get catastrophic failure much more often. That is why all these "elitist's" say to stay FAR away from Walmart bikes. It's not elitism...it's common sense to those in the know.


do you have any idea how many people ride on walmart bikes every day? how many deaths do you hear about in the news? my brothers friend is riding a walmart brand full suspension bike for at least 5 years now, the thing still rides like the day he bought it. And there is an elitist attitude, its not about suggesting alternatives or explaining information to people, alot of times its down right insulting some of the things people on these forums say to people who are hinting at the fact of buying such a bike. The attitude i got when i first started asking about a decent bike under 200 bucks was atrocious.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> do you have any idea how many people ride on walmart bikes every day? how many deaths do you hear about in the news? my brothers friend is riding a walmart brand full suspension bike for at least 5 years now, the thing still rides like the day he bought it.


If you are claiming that your brother is riding that bike on actual trails, I say you are full of it.



Spawne32 said:


> And there is an elitist attitude, its not about suggesting alternatives or explaining information to people, alot of times its down right insulting some of the things people on these forums say to people who are hinting at the fact of buying such a bike. The attitude i got when i first started asking about a decent bike under 200 bucks was atrocious.


It is not an elitist attitude. It is called knowledge. There are no decent mountain bikes under 200 bucks, especially not in department stores. You can get a decent commuter/SS/fixie for a bit above that. You can shop around places that know what they are doing and get something sturdy and working for a bit above that. The attitude that you get is because of your arrogant assertion that people who answered you do not know what they are talking about.


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## sanjuro (Sep 29, 2004)

Spawne32 said:


> the elitist attitude you get from people on here and bikeforum.com is amazing. While im not gona sit here and argue the fact that some xmart brand bikes are just plain junk, there are plenty of xmart bikes out there that ride just fine for your average person. Not everyone intends to be jumping off 40 foot ramps in the middle of the rocky mountains like some of the people you talk to online who are advising beginners to pay upwards of 500 or more for a used craigslist bike. I hadnt ridden a bike in 10 years when i made my purchase a few weeks ago for my 2008 Olpran Patriot i got off ebay. I spent years riding, jumping, and doing just about every off road thing you could imagine, on a freakin huffy when i was a kid. Hell my first bike was a murry if you remember those, and i never had any catastrophic failures like everyone claims is gona happen if you go out and buy a walmart bike.
> 
> If your a beginner and your looking to go purchase a new bike, manage your budget appropriately, do your research, and find the best deal you can with quality parts. The parts on the bike do make a difference i can attest to that. Some of the more aggressive stuff ive been doing lately has caused my el cheapo brake system to fail on this olpran because of the plastic parts used in a no name brand system. I spent 40 dollars replacing the entire system with parts from avid and ive never been happier. But that is the ONLY weak spot on this bike. The rest of the parts are the same quality stuff you hear people raving about on all the bike forums.
> 
> Word of advise to all the beginners who are running into the forum elitist bikers out there, buy within your budget, but use common sense and do your research on what is the best to buy. It does pay off in the end. And if your into tuning and mechanically inclined toys are what you love, sometimes it pays to buy a cheap buy, cus you get to have all sorts of fun fixing things sometimes


I cannot disagree more strongly with your assessment of department store bikes.

As a professional bike mechanic, I have serviced and assembed hundreds of bikes under $250. The department store bikes are assembled poorly and come with badly machined components which cannot (and mean cannot) be installed correctly.

Bike shops will usually stock a $225 bike which will be assembled to professional standards and if they are any problems with the parts, that bike will be sent back to the manufacturer.

I have assembled the Diamondback Outlook, and I was impressed with the quality of this bike, considering the $200 pricetag.

There is also the experience and expertise of the staff at a bike shop. Ask a clerk at a big box store about what size you should get, and the answer will very likely be, "I don't work in this department". If you ask me, I could give you a hour lecture about fitting or I could take a 2 second glance at your body and guess your exact size.

Beginners may not realize they are riding a badly fitted bike or a bike that does not function correctly. I may ride $5000 bikes but I have a professional standard that applies to $200 bikes as well. Ultimately, this will serve anyone who wants to ride a bike I sell or service.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Curmy said:


> If you are claiming that your brother is riding that bike on actual trails, I say you are full of it.
> 
> It is not an elitist attitude. It is called knowledge. There are no decent mountain bikes under 200 bucks, especially not in department stores. You can get a decent commuter/SS/fixie for a bit above that. You can shop around places that know what they are doing and get something sturdy and working for a bit above that. The attitude that you get is because of your arrogant assertion that people who answered you do not know what they are talking about.


next time im out ill take pictures of it lol and it is an elitist attitude, theres a difference between giving a person actual information about what to choose in a bike, and posting a cocky response about what they want to spend on a bike. When i posted about having 200 bucks to spend on a bike to get myself riding again, i only got 1 post that actually had any valuable information, the rest of the posts were cocky about how you cant buy a bike under 200 dollars that isnt junk. And then when i responded that ive never spent over 150 for a bike my entire life, i started getting more attitude with people saying wheels and handle bars were gona be flying off the bike after i purchased it. Quite frankly its just crap. While i agree with the guy above that quality bikes are quality bikes and there are no substitutes, i still stand by my opinion that if you do your research you can find yourself a decent xmart brand bike...schwinn, mongoose, whatever that works just fine. Thats my story, and i stand by it.


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## osmarandsara (Jun 26, 2006)

Every once in a while I go riding with a buddy who hardly ever rides his bike. His bike is a $300 dollar Walmart bike that he bought in '06 with one of those rear-shocks that don't have any lock-out, rebound adjust, or negative air chamber. It only has a dial that you turn to compress the shock a few mm. I'm guessing the rear travel on that shock is perhaps 1, maybe 2 inches. His bike also has a 60 mm elastomer fork made entirely out steel. The bike probably weighs about 38-40 pounds by my estimate.

My bike is a 2001 full-suspension Giant NRS XTC made of 6061 Aluxx aluminum. When I bought it 8 years ago it cost $1,800. Even though I had a good job I still had to borrow the money in order to buy it and I slowly paid it off over 3 years. That was $50 a month for 3-years, plus interest. It has a 100 mm spring-driven Manitou Black fork with oil damping and is made out of aluminum, cadmium, and steel. It has a 4 inch air-sprung rear canister shock with a negative air chamber and damping adjustment. All other components are Race Face and Shimano LX. This 8-yr old bike is a piece of crap by today's "real mountain bike" standards, but still only weighs around 28 pounds.

When we ride together, I always switch bikes in order to "even-out" the ride because I'm in good shape and he's not and I want him to have fun.

So what do I think of his bike after finishing a ride? Well, on his bike, because it lacks rebound damping on the front and back, I have to ride the technical sections alot slower. Also, because it's heavier, I also have to ride the steeps slower and I am more wiped out after reaching the top. Also, his brakes are not as powerful as mine, so that also limits the speeds I can reach in order to compensate for the weaker brakes.

So in a nutshell, yeah, I can ride the Walmart bike on the same trails as my Giant NRS. 

However, because of the bike's limitations, its alot more work and it's also not as much fun.........I'll take my 8-year old piece-of-crap NRS over his Walmart bike any day.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> Thats my story, and i stand by it.


It would be easier to read if you have used proper punctuation and paragraphs. But if you stand by this "story" you should not be surprised if people abuse you around here.

If you do not like the truth that there is no good bike that you can buy for you budget, it is your problem, not ours. No, you can not get a k-mart bike that is not crap and that will not put you in danger if you actually ride it on trails. If you think you can - you do not know what you are talking about.



osmarandsara said:


> So in a nutshell, yeah, I can ride the Walmart bike on the same trails as my Giant NRS.


A $300 Walmart bike. At that price you can do better in a local shop. You can get a decent singlespeed.


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## EndersShadow (Jun 27, 2008)

I am beginning to suspect that Spawn is a troll. Let's not turn this resourceful thread into a flamefest.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

EndersShadow said:


> I am beginning to suspect that Spawn is a troll. Let's not turn this resourceful thread into a flamefest.


He most certainly is a troll. Let's leave that at that.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Curmy said:


> He most certainly is a troll. Let's leave that at that.


right, im a troll because i have an opinion, my apologies if it doesn't conform to everyone else's on the forum, is this how you treat all your new members with opinions?


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## gregg (Sep 30, 2000)

This is a warning to all...stop with the flames and insults.

nagatahawk, your comments are way over the line, they have been removed
Spawne32, don't reply to insults with more insults, your insults have also been removed.

This thread is not for ANYONE to "abuse" anyone else. Debate the issues, not the person. People are free to discuss their opinion, even if it is different from your own. And let's not forget that this IS the beginner's forum, not all rides require the same level of bike that you might ride yourself.

As stated by others, let's not sully this fine and informative thread with petty bickering.

-gregg kato, Site Manager

(FWIW, I bought my own daughter a Walmart bike several years ago. It was $69. I made sure to go through it thoroughly before I let her ride it (chain needed some "real" lube and one of the pedals was loose, that was about it). After she learned to ride and showed that she wanted to keep riding, her next bike was a $220 Gary Fisher from the LBS. That's how it worked for me. 

Personally, I think my local Walmart has a pretty impressive bike shop in it. Last time I was in there, the single employee behind the counter looked overwhelmed helping multiple customers. And I still occasionally see forks installed backwards. But if you know what to check for (as far as bike prep errors), I think certain makes and models in there would be okay on certain trails, for certain people. I would not personally ride one now, of course, but just because a bike comes from Walmart and is a full suspension model doesn't mean that it will necessarily implode on contact with dirt.)


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

gregg said:


> (FWIW, I bought my own daughter a Walmart bike several years ago. It was $69. I made sure to go through it thoroughly before I let her ride it (chain needed some "real" lube and one of the pedals was loose, that was about it). After she learned to ride and showed that she wanted to keep riding, her next bike was a $220 Gary Fisher from the LBS. That's how it worked for me.
> 
> Personally, I think my local Walmart has a pretty impressive bike shop in it. Last time I was in there, the single employee behind the counter looked overwhelmed helping multiple customers. And I still occasionally see forks installed backwards. But if you know what to check for (as far as bike prep errors), I think certain makes and models in there would be okay on certain trails, for certain people. I would not personally ride one now, of course, but just because a bike comes from Walmart and is a full suspension model doesn't mean that it will necessarily implode on contact with dirt.)


best advice ive seen posted about department store bikes :thumbsup:


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

reverse elitism.. 

some people cant afford nice things and instead of just enjoying what they can afford, crusade their cheap crap and try to convince people its not cheap crap and chose to call everyone else elitists. 

its like trying to tell tiger woods hes an elitist for using the clubs he does instead of your 15 dollar club set you found on craigslist.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

tomsmoto said:


> reverse elitism..
> 
> some people cant afford nice things and instead of just enjoying what they can afford, crusade their cheap crap and try to convince people its not cheap crap and chose to call everyone else elitists.
> 
> its like trying to tell tiger woods hes an elitist for using the clubs he does instead of your 15 dollar club set you found on craigslist.


thats not what i said at all, im not flaunting anything, the point i was making was that when you post about a cheap bike, the people with expensive bikes always have a way of demeaning you....like you just did.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

that, or you cant take facts and instead decide everyones demeaning you.. walmart bikes suck.

sure not everyone needs a bike that doesnt suck. tons of people here have walmart bikes that reliably get them to work every day. i see them every day, same bike, chain squeaking along and all.. but it still sucks. they dont care, they're not mountain bikers, nor do they care how well it'll do on dirt. its just a bike to them. this is a bike enthusiasts site though.. not a commute around town on whatever gets the job done site.

try posting a pile of crap honda civic on the ferrari forums and see what kind of response you get. its kinda the same thing here. or a clapped out import on the scca road racing forums. its not elitism, we're a bunch of people who really really like mountain biking.. similarly, we'd like bikes that can actually handle riding offroad, on a mountain.

there ARE cheap bikes that are really fine quality, dirt capable machines. i see decent bikes all day on CL for 100-200 bucks. these are enthusiast level bikes for walmart prices.. given the context of a forum like this, theres a strong push for the better bike. 

theres more people than just you and me here. this is a huge site, thousands of people will read this read and not reply, but they'll take information away instead. if they're really interested in mountain biking, they dont need to be steered into walmart.


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## gregg (Sep 30, 2000)

Hey Guys.....sure this is a site for enthusiasts....I should know, I'm one of them.

But let's not forget that THIS IS THE BEGINNER'S FORUM. This is not Passion or General. 

Let's not forget the original intent for which I started this whole thread.

-g


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

gregg said:


> Hey Guys.....sure this is a site for enthusiasts....I should know, I'm one of them.
> 
> But let's not forget that THIS IS THE BEGINNER'S FORUM. This is not Passion or General.
> 
> ...


i just dont understand why some of the people here cant give straight advice to people who cant spend over a certain amount on a bike? Why do they feel the need to demean the person for even owning one? Sure if you compare a toyota corolla against a ferrari enzo theres gona be a profound difference, that doesnt make the toyota a BAD car to drive...my biggest beef is that if a person posts, i have this much to spend on a bike, what should i look for, people tell him to get lost cus you have to spend a minimum of a couple hundred when thats just not true, they cant just explain things to lookout for or what stuff to look for in a department store bike. And i trust the fact that you wouldnt have put your own daughter on a department store bike first if there was something catastrophically wrong with people buying them. People act like the damn thing is gona explode when you build it.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

Spawne32 said:


> i just dont understand why some of the people here cant give straight advice to people who cant spend over a certain amount on a bike? .


people do. you're just not willing to accept it.

if you have 150 bucks, you can get a pile of crap from walmart, or a decent used bike. has nothing to do with price.. theres nothing wrong with recommending quality over cheap parts, especially when they cost the same or similar.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

tomsmoto said:


> people do. you're just not willing to accept it.
> 
> if you have 150 bucks, you can get a pile of crap from walmart, or a decent used bike. has nothing to do with price.. theres nothing wrong with recommending quality over cheap parts, especially when they cost the same or similar.


once again, thats not advice or help, thats insulting someone because they cant afford anything more expensive, rather then saying, everyone for this amount is a piece of crap, your better off not riding, why dont you give some sound advice like....look for this kind of stuff on a bike at the store, and check this stuff to make sure its safe, etc


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

slow down, take a breath, reread  thats not even remotely what i said.. you're too hell bent on your ideas of cheap walmart bikes. why do you insist on pushing people towards bad bikes when they can afford good bikes for the same price?


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> once again, thats not advice or help, thats insulting someone because they cant afford anything more expensive, rather then saying, everyone for this amount is a piece of crap, your better off not riding, why dont you give some sound advice like....look for this kind of stuff on a bike at the store, and check this stuff to make sure its safe, etc


Actually, tomsmoto didn't insult, but instead gave some very good advice in buying a higher quality used bike over a Xmart brand. He was only trying to be helpful. The problem with making comments on components of the Xmart bikes is that there isn't really a consumer information base to go on for the cheap components. People aren't out there riding and testing the various cheap bikes and evaluating their components on a regular basis because those bikes aren't being ridden by the vast majority of folks that are mountain biking.

I think used is a good option if you know what to look for. I picked up a Diamondback Sorrento for my wife a few years back at a thrift store for $13. The only thing I initially replaced was the shifters and rebuilt the bottom bracket, peddles, and headset myself. Total cost was around $50. It eventually became her commuter so we put some different tires and added fenders and a saddle.

That being said, you have to have some mechanical ability or know a friend that can help evaluate the bike prior to purchase and fix it up a little. But those mechanical skills will be needed on the Xmart bike too because things will be getting out of ajustment and wear out a lot quicker than on a name brand bike. You might have a local shop that sells used stuff on consignment, and they might help with advice on getting it trail ready.

If you truly plan on riding trails that are anything but smooth, steering you away from the wallyworld type bikes truly is doing you a favor. That being said, if that's what you want, go for it. But don't expect component advice on those bikes because people just aren't evaluating and comparing them. A cheapo bike is better than no bike in my opinion, but I still wouldn't ride anything too technical or remote on it if it were me.

The best bike is one you ride and enjoy. :thumbsup:


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> once again, thats not advice or help, thats insulting someone because they cant afford anything more expensive, rather then saying, everyone for this amount is a piece of crap


Walmart bikes being crap has nothing to do whatsoever with being able to afford anything. It is a fact. If you make the decision to interpret that fact as a personal insult, we really can not help. We can not bend facts to placate damaged egos.

And you repeatedly choose to ignore the advise to look for a better quality used bike in the same price range. Which is a good advice.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Curmy said:


> Walmart bikes being crap has nothing to do whatsoever with being able to afford anything. It is a fact. If you make the decision to interpret that fact as a personal insult, we really can not help. We can not bend facts to placate damaged egos.
> 
> And you repeatedly choose to ignore the advise to look for a better quality used bike in the same price range. Which is a good advice.


i chose to ignore what everyone said because nobody would give me any advice for my price range, everyone told me everything was a piece of crap and that i couldnt find anything under 500 that wouldnt be crap.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> i chose to ignore what everyone said because nobody would give me any advice for my price range, everyone told me everything was a piece of crap and that i couldnt find anything under 500 that wouldnt be crap.


Bull. People have repeatedly pointed out to some reasonable option for new bikes at around $250, which you can find a local professional store, or online, and people repeatedly pointed out to options for used bikes in that range. But you do not listen, but keep coming back with "elitist" baloney - which lead me to a conclusion that you are trolling.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

Curmy said:


> If you are claiming that your brother is riding that bike on actual trails, I say you are full of it.


here are the pictures you requested, the one in the back is a 100 dollar walmart full suspension bike that is 5 years old, and the one in the front is a 10 year old huffy mountain bike from kmart that cost 89.99, today we were on the paved path however, i apologize for not showing it with dirt beneath its wheels.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> here are the pictures you requested, the one in the back is a 100 dollar walmart full suspension bike that is 5 years old, and the one in the front is a 10 year old huffy mountain bike from kmart that cost 89.99, today we were on the paved path however, i apologize for not showing it with dirt beneath its wheels.


WOW :eekster: yep...you need a new bike - that thing is for someone half your size :eekster: (or whoever is on the huffy)

*Disclaimer* - not elitist, just an obvious observation :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Oh and, - SWEET! the Walgoose has got a dual-crown...NICE


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## EndersShadow (Jun 27, 2008)

Just like I said....That Huffy is a pretty ok bike. Not much to fail on it. That FS on the other hand is an accident waiting to happen.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

highdelll said:


> WOW :eekster: yep...you need a new bike - that thing is for someone half your size :eekster: (or whoever is on the huffy)
> 
> *Disclaimer* - not elitist, just an obvious observation :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
> 
> Oh and, - SWEET! the Walgoose has got a dual-crown...NICE


lol but he doesnt want to spend money on a bike, thats why hes riding that, thats actually like a 20" or 21" inch bike, too big for me, im 5'7" 160 pounds and i had to get somthing smaller. Hes almost 6 foot and 210 pounds, not sure how much bigger he needs to be properly fitted though. Actually if i panned to the left slightly you would see my friend who is riding his moms 10 year old murry baja which is literally falling apart in terms of the drive train, which i would consider to be unsafe, which is why hes buying a new bike. That being said, his budget is 350 dollars and hes looking at a forge sawback... http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5blu.asp


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

EndersShadow said:


> Just like I said....That Huffy is a pretty ok bike. Not much to fail on it. That FS on the other hand is an accident waiting to happen.


last week i would have agreed with you on that FS, he was riding with a pinched and bulging tube in the rear wheel, in fact it was bulging so far out that he was wobbling all over the place and i refused to go anywhere within 15 feet of his bike for fear that it would blow out. Im curious though where exactly do though think the weak spot is on that bike that its an accident waiting to happen?


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## EndersShadow (Jun 27, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> last week i would have agreed with you on that FS, he was riding with a pinched and bulging tube in the rear wheel, in fact it was bulging so far out that he was wobbling all over the place and i refused to go anywhere within 15 feet of his bike for fear that it would blow out. Im curious though where exactly do though think the weak spot is on that bike that its an accident waiting to happen?


The front and rear suspension. Cheap forks and shocks are a no no.


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

EndersShadow said:


> The front and rear suspension. Cheap forks and shocks are a no no.


well its been riding for 5 years now


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## EndersShadow (Jun 27, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> well its been riding for 5 years now


 That's nice. Continue to ride it on paved trails like the one you showed us and it might last a few more years. Take it on some mild singletrack and it will fall apart.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> well its been riding for 5 years now


Okay, based on the picture and looking at some of your other posts it has become clear that you are either a) a mountain biker imposter, or b) a troll.

That is some wicked gnarly terrain dewd


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

BumpityBump said:


> Okay, based on the picture and looking at some of your other posts it has become clear that you are either a) a mountain biker imposter, or b) a troll.
> 
> That is some wicked gnarly terrain dewd


i live in jersey, where exactly would you like me to ride off a cliff that requires a 10,000 dollar bike? The most i get to see out here is dirt trails with water and jumps, with an occasional incline, and paved road.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> here are the pictures you requested, the one in the back is a 100 dollar walmart full suspension bike that is 5 years old


You are not doing any mountain biking, so your questions here, or presence here, are completely redundant.

Full rigid is a very reasonable way to spend a $100 to commute to school. The only road bike I own is a steel fixie that I got for around $200 and it will last for years.

Full suspension at that price is an utterly laughable idea that is an accident waiting to happen if you actually take it off-road. In fact, I would advice anybody with a budget under a $1000 to get a hardtail.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Spawne32 said:


> i live in jersey, where exactly would you like me to ride off a cliff that requires a 10,000 dollar bike? The most i get to see out here is dirt trails with water and jumps, with an occasional incline, and paved road.


Here are some trails for starters that are posted in the Mtbr Trail Reviews section for New Jersey:

http://trails.mtbr.com/cat/united-states-trails/trails-new-jersey/PLS_4564crx.aspx

Nobody has said that montain biking necessitates riding off of a cliff and to do that requires a $10,000 bike. That's troll talk. It is apparent that you aren't really interested in assistance at this point. Good luck.


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## TrickyRicky (May 25, 2009)

*2009 Cannondale F9*

Hi I'm new and having been searching for a MTB. My budget is $500

Is this cannondale F9 hardtail a good entry level bike?

http://www.o2gearshop.com/catalog/p...rency=USD&products_id=5219&CAWELAID=341413749

or is this full suspension Schwinn better for the same price?

http://www.amazon.com/Schwinn-Delta-Sport-Dual-Suspension-Mountain/dp/B000UP6R7K

I've read everything and everybody says skip the dept store bikes and get a decent hardtail for the same money. Last time I had a hardtail they kill your back and butt over long rides on bad roads. I had a cheap full suspension mongoose back in 2000 from wally world and man that thing was a comfort cruiser and ez on the back and butt, just used it for beach cruising in south FL though. A hardtail is just that...hard on your tail. I'm stuck between a rock and hard place here folks.....helps me out.

I would love to know the weight of the F9 but the manufacturer doesn't list weight. The Schwinn is like 34 lbs, which is a good 11 lbs less than the blackcomb moongose at wally world.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Have you thought about buying a hardtail and putting a suspension seat post on it? Definitely not the same as rear suspension, but it does give you a little bit of cush so it's not so harsh and they are about $20 or so last I checked. Then if you really get into biking you could upgrade down the road. If you check your local bike shop you may be able to get a good deal on some older models they have around instead of a 2009. No need to look at 2009 models if you are on a budget, and you can probably get a better, lighter bike. Don't forget a helmet if you need one!

You really will get a lot more bang for your buck with a hardtail in that price range, but I understand about the harshness of a hardtail. If you truly want to go full suspension I would look for a good gently used bike that doesn't need a lot of upgrades right away.


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## TrickyRicky (May 25, 2009)

BumpityBump said:


> Have you thought about buying a hardtail and putting a suspension seat post on it? Definitely not the same as rear suspension, but it does give you a little bit of cush so it's not so harsh and they are about $20 or so last I checked. Then if you really get into biking you could upgrade down the road. If you check your local bike shop you may be able to get a good deal on some older models they have around instead of a 2009. No need to look at 2009 models if you are on a budget, and you can probably get a better, lighter bike. Don't forget a helmet if you need one!
> 
> You really will get a lot more bang for your buck with a hardtail in that price range, but I understand about the harshness of a hardtail. If you truly want to go full suspension I would look for a good gently used bike that doesn't need a lot of upgrades right away.


Thanks for the info! I will contact my local bike shop and check the classifieds too. A seat shock could work. What did you think about the Cannondale F9 hardtail for $399? Are those any good, from what I hear Cannondale is a premium brand.


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## tekdestroyer (May 26, 2009)

As running is pretty boring to me I wanted to get into a recreational sport with a little bit of fun worked into. Then I remembered how much fun I had doing dirt jumps on the old bmx's growing up, and also the few times I tried mountain biking in summer camps. So I dived into this hobby head first doing lots of internet research and reading magazines. As I dont like buying things used (too many problems with other products in the past), I went into research for what made a quality beginner bike.

I have two local bike shops, one that Ive bought bikes at before and sells Spec/Felt/Diamondback/Raleigh, the other sells mainly Trek/Spec and didnt have anybody to help me when I went in there and was a sure sign of a bad shop to me. So I went in and tried out a couple 21/22" bikes around in the parking lot. 

The first one I tried was a 2008 Felt Q620, and it felt pretty light and the gear changes were very smooth. Then I hopped on a 2008 Raleigh Mojave 8.0, which felt a good 5lbs heavier but with better brakes and a stiffer fork, yet the drivetrain felt a little sloppier. The LBS guy giggled a little bit and said that the Raleigh's Deore was actually a full step up over the Felt and went on to explain a couple of different improvements over the Felt.

So he pretty much sold me on the Raleigh and I put a layaway on the bike, so I could wait to my next paycheck/month change (for credit card interest reasons) to purchase it. After I left I didnt realize til I got home that it was an 08 and actually felt the price for the Raleigh was kind of steep at 640 since the 09's should be out in full circulation by now. Though the 09's have worse components on them in comparison. 

And to tie into the whole Department store thread, I did find the Target brand's Forge had pretty decent components on it for a 350 dollar bike even if the frame isnt worth a damn. Probably sets it in line or a step above something like the trek 820 and other lower models.

Anyways does the Raleigh price seem a little steep and maybe I should just go ahead and get the Felt for 100 less clams, when I go back in? Or just stick with it?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

BumpityBump said:


> Have you thought about buying a hardtail and putting a suspension seat post on it? Definitely not the same as rear suspension, but it does give you a little bit of cush so it's not so harsh and they are about $20 or so last I checked.


Better get a decent steel frame, and good high volume rear tire. It rides better, and it is easier to set up good riding position.  (I have experimented with suspension posts, and found that if I set it up for good pedaling when the sag is included, it makes it awkward to stand up and get behind the saddle on technical section, as it pops up a bit).


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Curmy said:


> Better get a decent steel frame, and good high volume rear tire. It rides better, and it is easier to set up good riding position.  (I have experimented with suspension posts, and found that if I set it up for good pedaling when the sag is included, it makes it awkward to stand up and get behind the saddle on technical section, as it pops up a bit).


Hmm, I never had much of a problem on my Stumpjumper. What you say makes sense though, but I guess it depends on the model of suspension post. I was using a cheapy Nashbar with limited suspension. I did notice it developed a little lateral play over time which was a little annoying but bearable.


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## WVPedaler (May 20, 2009)

You know a lot of people that I know have no idea why I went out and bought a 09 Cannondale F5 for my first real bike since I was like 12, I am 22 now and I am looking to get more involved in this sport. I love my bike so far and I have rode a couple of buddies big box bikes and they just feel cheap. My wife doesnt really understand it either...but hey it was my money. Do they ever really understand this stuff...I dont think so.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

BumpityBump said:


> Hmm, I never had much of a problem on my Stumpjumper. What you say makes sense though, but I guess it depends on the model of suspension post. I was using a cheapy Nashbar with limited suspension. I did notice it developed a little lateral play over time which was a little annoying but bearable.


I would guess that it means that it was set on a bit of a low position, which is not a problem, but not the most optimal. For my friends who start riding, I do suggest getting a pair of biking shorts (and not use cotton underwear under it  ), better shaped saddle, and setting the riding position properly - over any gizmo like a suspension post.

I know a couple experienced guys who swear by their thudbusters (which is a better type of suspension movement - and it when it pops up it also moves forward) for long hours in the saddle - but I would guess they already know exactly what they are doing.. (and the rest of the bike is set up accordingly)


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Curmy said:


> I would guess that it means that it was set on a bit of a low position, which is not a problem, but not the most optimal. For my friends who start riding, I do suggest getting a pair of biking shorts (and not use cotton underwear under it  ), better shaped saddle, and setting the riding position properly - over any gizmo like a suspension post.
> 
> I know a couple experienced guys who swear by their thudbusters (which is a better type of suspension movement - and it when it pops up it also moves forward) for long hours in the saddle - but I would guess they already know exactly what they are doing.. (and the rest of the bike is set up accordingly)


Well I had been riding singletrack for over a decade before trying the suspension post so knew a thing or two about proper setup. 

It just wasn't a problem for me to slip on and off of the saddle as needed, but I still only had a slight bend in the knee on full extension. I think poorly designed baggy shorts snagging on the nose of the saddle have caused me more problems in the past than the 1/2 or 3/4 inch the post height was changing on unweighting. No comparison to full suspension, and I agree that proper setup is important. Cotton underwear, that's so 70's.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

BumpityBump said:


> Well I had been riding singletrack for over a decade before trying the suspension post so knew a thing or two about proper setup.


Sorry, I just made a wild internet guess that you prefer it a bit lower then I do.. Or maybe my ass compresses it more 

Baggy shorts? That's so american.. (said as a weenie foreigner.)


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Curmy said:


> Baggy shorts? That's so american.


Ha, I don't doubt that. I just can't bring myself to wear lycra/spandex, plus tight shorts just aren't as good for hanging out at the local watering hole for beers after a long ride. :thumbsup:


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

txjohng said:


> 1) That is all you can afford, I guess it is better than no bike
> 2) To ride around college campus
> 
> I'm not sure about your college, but at my old colleges I'd see many bikes damaged or parts stolen while locked up. Now, I actually never seen it in action, but have see a frame locked up, or a front wheel, or a seat post missing ...
> ...


you say that and yet... I bought a $100 "full suspension" from Target for riding around my college, and it was a huge mistake. A month of pain and agony later, I bought a one year old "new" bike on discount, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Now, I'm really into MTB, and its all thanks to that Target bike sucking. On the other hand, I did wake up one morning to discover my front wheel/ disc rotor bent in half.

To be fair, in my time before I hadn't had any problems with dept store bikes, my 5 year old mongoose "full suspension" still works and shifts fine, though I'm waay to big for it and bottom out the front fork with ease.


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## clutch_08 (May 5, 2009)

i have had my walmart mountain bike for over a year but before i owned it my cousin owend it for 2years. i take that thing on mountain trails like every day and has gave me no problems.
i feel very lucky


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## cth978 (Feb 9, 2009)

i just got my gf a Schwinn Women's Aluminum Comp from wally world. it seems to be holding up fairly well. we went down some fire roads and there was loose gravel and some ruts and whotnot around she seemed to have no problem. i think for all around general purpose use its fine to go to a big box store but for agressive riding in woods and trails your better off spending the money asnd getting something that will last.


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## CajunAg08 (Jul 16, 2008)

*Magna Electroshock!*

Found this on the side of a local Houston trail. Hope the owner came out ok!

Warning: this may disturb those currently riding wal-mart bikes


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## cdeftekar (Apr 23, 2009)

A little duct tape (which you should have in your pack) and it'll be as good as new!


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

CajunAg08 said:


> Found this on the side of a local Houston trail. Hope the owner came out ok!
> 
> Warning: this may disturb those currently riding wal-mart bikes


:lol: that bike looks like it was turned inside out


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

BlackDirt said:


> Hi i'm Dirt.


I think Smug would be a better choice.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

BlackDirt said:


> Hi i'm Dirt.


Soo???


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

BlackDirt said:


> Money makes a difference. But a cheap bike is like freeweights. Good for training. Once you become experienced and passionate, it's time to shell out the dough for a decent bike.


Cheap bikes are not good for training, but only decent cheap bikes. But we have been talking not about just cheap bikes - it is about department store bikes. Advising people to take such bikes off-road is flat out irresponsible. Spending just a little bit more, nobody is talking about thousands of dollars, will land you something that is not dangerous to use.

BTW, If you are implying in your analogy that I should ditch my kettlebells for some expensive gismos, then you do not know much about weight training.

A better analogy with freeweights would be getting a cheap full rigid MTB singlespeed - or a fixie on the road.


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## Hopping_Rocks (Aug 23, 2008)

highdelll said:


> HOW?
> I wanna know what these were so I can avoid them...
> Man, I have a set of some M450s (square taper) on my AM from the '90s that wont die.(also some Suginos and Sakaes on others)..how do you break cranks?


He does it by riding "like men on stuff a hummer would fall apart riding".


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

+1 Troll


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## NicoleC (Sep 28, 2007)

laxman2001 said:


> BlackDirt joined today and has 10 posts, all on this sticky.


Oh he trolled another thread, too. Same topic, same bluster. Less amusement factor.



> I was jumping ramps on big wheels while you was get your diaper changed by momma son.


At the ripe old age of 31?! Can't even keep his internet personas straight.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

BlackDirt said:


> Enough said.


We sure hope so.


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

BlackDirt said:


> Black Dirt is 31 years old and teaching his son and daughter how to ride on dirt.


Sometimes I'm so sad for my generation...but then I get even sadder for my generations' children.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Bang For Bucks*

This is the new Mongoose XR 200


























Very sharp, rugged aluminium and steel frame that can stand up to most higher priced "snobby" bikes. Don't waste your money on a local bike shop when this beast can do the same job for a *lot* less money.

Get one in the box and after some minor adjustments you are ready to stomp all over the competition on just about any trail or street run. This model features 21 speed Shimano Tourney derailer and Promax disc brake on Zoom forks on the front and a grabby V-Brake system on the rear.

The very sharp spakle red paint over the ultra light aluminium front frame is bound to turn heads and start conversations with your trail buddies!

Don't waste your money on an expensive pile of junk, when it comes to quality and affordability this model (Mongoose XR 200) shown here, hands down, beats the competition. The rugged suspension system can take whatever you throw at it and the combination of disc and V-brakes can stop on a dime. Now watch all the bike snobs steam as you fly by them. If you want more info from someone who has ridden one and punished it first hand just send me a private message. Don't listen to those "bitter bikers" that spent way too much, just holler at me and I will give you a run down of exactly what you will get if you decide to get this awesome ride!


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Don't waste your money on an expensive pile of junk, when it comes to quality and affordability this model (Mongoose XR 200) shown here, hands down, beats the competition. The rugged suspension system can take whatever you throw at it and the combination of disc and V-brakes can stop on a dime. Now watch all the bike snobs steam as you fly by them. If you want more info from someone who has ridden one and punished it first hand just send me a private message. Don't listen to those "bitter bikers" that spent way too much, just holler at me and I will give you a run down of exactly what you will get if you decide to get this awesome ride!


Look, BlackDirt is already back. Found a third thread for trolling?


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Curmy*



Curmy said:


> Look, BlackDirt is already back. Found a third thread for trolling?


Don't be a "bitter biker" it's not like you own the place, Curmy. There are other people in your Universe that don't think you are the center of it. lol, your cuteness is wearing off quite fast.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> your cuteness is wearing off quite fast.


I've never tried to be cute with trolls.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Good*



Curmy said:


> I've never tried to be cute with trolls.


Oh good, your epic failure won't bother you for long then.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

oh good, another poster who just joined today. what a coincidence. Well, at least this one seems less annoying. And, if he likes his mongoose, then all the power to him. I'll stick with my bike.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

790750003985---58047-4857-404=5485838=28854776555487463662-840-2....


ya know what I'm sayin?


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Oh look, another poster who just joined today. At least this one seems less annoying. If he wants to ride that bike all the power to him. I think I'll stick with mine though.


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## KPVSR (Dec 25, 2006)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> This is the new Mongoose XR 200
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Advertised weight = 42# Don't think you'll be flying by many bike snobs. Your funny....


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Ha!*



KPVSR said:


> Advertised weight = 42# Don't think you'll be flying by many bike snobs. Your funny....


Shows what you know. That is with box and packing materials. Besides I posted earlier that I was clocked at 60mph. Top that BB!


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Shows what you know. That is with box and packing materials. Besides I posted earlier that I was clocked at 60mph. Top that BB!


Yeah, on a downhill, were weight doesn't mean jack.
Where weight matters is when climbing or on very technical terrain.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> Yeah, on a downhill, were weight doesn't mean jack.
> Where weight matters is when climbing or on very technical terrain.


Do not feed the troll.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Oh nooooooo!*



Curmy said:


> Do not feed the troll.


Troll calling the kettle black ha ha ha ha ha 
              

Curmy and Laxman are on the wrong thread. Just ignore them and they will go away. They love to diss anyone they can find. Sad really, but I guess they can't be cool to anyone so they became cyber bullies.


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## KPVSR (Dec 25, 2006)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Shows what you know. That is with box and packing materials. Besides I posted earlier that I was clocked at 60mph. Top that BB!


Okay my mistake but how much can a cardboard box, foam and some plastic shipping materials really weigh? I bet your still at least 35# with that thing. WTF does being clocked at 60 MPH have do do with anything? You didn't pedal that fast with that bike and I highly doubt it on any non-motorized bike for that matter. If you did then you should be a pro-cyclist.

I am curious though why you call more expensive properly sized and higher quality bikes snobby bikes and refer to those that ride them as bike snobs. Sure your bike can get the job done and I applaud you for actually getting out there and riding but go out and demo one of these so called snob bikes and then come back and say there is no reason for them. If you do not think there is a difference in performance then I don't know what else to say.

I am thinking your calling out of snob bikes is stooping to the same level as some of those elitist who do think they are better than others on lesser bikes so in my mind you are no better at this moment. Not all who ride high dollar bikes do so because they think they are better the everyone else. Most just appreciate the added performance they offer. I for one am one of those riders who has been fortunate enough to afford this performance difference.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

KPVSR said:


> I am curious though why you call more expensive properly sized and higher quality bikes snobby bikes and refer to those that ride them as bike snobs.


He is a troll, that's why. Maintaining a conversation with him just encourages him.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

Beginners and Dept Store Bikes 
Beginners and Dept Store Bikes 
Beginners and Dept Store Bikes 

Did you miss it again? Look out there is a troll behind you. Please stop feeding it!:nono:


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Troll calling the kettle black ha ha ha ha ha
> 
> 
> Curmy and Laxman are on the wrong thread. Just ignore them and they will go away. They love to diss anyone they can find. Sad really, but I guess they can't be cool to anyone so they became cyber bullies.


If anyone does care to look at my post history they will see that this is not the case. I'm done with this thread until I finish my review of the Mongoose XR 200. Hope everyone had a wonderful July 4.


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## KPVSR (Dec 25, 2006)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Beginners and Dept Store Bikes
> Beginners and Dept Store Bikes
> Beginners and Dept Store Bikes
> 
> Did you miss it again? Look out there is a troll behind you. Please stop feeding it!:nono:


Did you miss my questions? I know the topic but you obviously flamed higher end bikes calling them expensive piles of junk and I am asking why. You want to ride that bike fine, have at it but why are you flaming higher end bikes?

I didn't flame your ride, I stated a published weight which by the way per the Wal-mart website 42# is the weight and the ship weight is 44.1# and just said I doubt you'll be flying past many bike snobs with it.

In my opinion telling a beginner they'll be flying past what is typically a more experienced rider on a higher end bike with a 42# bike is not good advice cause it generally is not going to happen. Telling them that it will get the job done on a budget would have sufficed.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Roflcopter*



Curmy said:


> He is a troll, that's why. Maintaining a conversation with him just encourages him.


You must get bored running around on forums calling people trolls. Seriously don't you have something better to do like go to Wallymart and get a fantastic deal on a MONGOOSE XR 200?


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Finally*



laxman2001 said:


> If anyone does care to look at my post history they will see that this is not the case. I'm done with this thread until I finish my review of the Mongoose XR 200. Hope everyone had a wonderful July 4.


Excellent! I am glad to see you have come to your senses! I knew it wouldn't be long before we became best buddies. I can't wait to go riding some sick trails with you!


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Truck Scale*



KPVSR said:


> Okay my mistake but how much can a cardboard box, foam and some plastic shipping materials really weigh? I bet your still at least 35# with that thing. WTF does being clocked at 60 MPH have do do with anything? You didn't pedal that fast with that bike and I highly doubt it on any non-motorized bike for that matter. If you did then you should be a pro-cyclist.
> 
> I am curious though why you call more expensive properly sized and higher quality bikes snobby bikes and refer to those that ride them as bike snobs. Sure your bike can get the job done and I applaud you for actually getting out there and riding but go out and demo one of these so called snob bikes and then come back and say there is no reason for them. If you do not think there is a difference in performance then I don't know what else to say.
> 
> I am thinking your calling out of snob bikes is stooping to the same level as some of those elitist who do think they are better than others on lesser bikes so in my mind you are no better at this moment. Not all who ride high dollar bikes do so because they think they are better the everyone else. Most just appreciate the added performance they offer. I for one am one of those riders who has been fortunate enough to afford this performance difference.


I weighed the packing materials. 15 pounds 6 oz. Hmmm..I wonder what the math is on that one?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

KPVSR said:


> Did you miss my questions? I know the topic but you obviously flamed higher end bikes calling them expensive piles of junk and I am asking why. You want to ride that bike fine, have at it but why are you flaming higher end bikes?


There is a nice feature in "My account" tab:

"_This message is hidden because Mongoose Pilot is on your ignore list. _"

It would be even better if they tuned the forum software for all the troll messages to disappear completely, but this works as well.

Every now and on such jerks show up - they get bored with their act quite soon and disappear.


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## zadey1234 (May 7, 2007)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Shows what you know. That is with box and packing materials. Besides I posted earlier that I was clocked at 60mph. Top that BB!


Lol, Don't try to impress people you call "bike snobs" with your POS walmart bike. And at that 60mph comment, that's bull just so ya know. Unless you have proof from gps, gtfo.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Cop*



zadey1234 said:


> Lol, Don't try to impress people you call "bike snobs" with your POS walmart bike. And at that 60mph comment, that's bull just so ya know. Unless you have proof from gps, gtfo.


There was a cop at the park that was nice enough to clock me. Before you go calling other peoples bikes a POS you should do some research. Sad, another bitter biker and I thought people that got enough exercise would be a little more polite. You are your own curse lad.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> There was a cop at the park that was nice enough to clock me. Before you go calling other peoples bikes a POS you should do some research. Sad, another bitter biker and I thought people that got enough exercise would be a little more polite. You are your own curse lad.


wait...You are either retarded, lying or a troll.
Post a pic w/ you / your bike from the Mongoose XR-200 thread - (yeah the kickstand one) and a current paper to prove that you're not a troll - you're claims are too outrageous otherwise...

60MPH??? KMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

***EDIT - I see the same pics were posted above - my challenge/ statement stands tho


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## Cyclotic (Jun 4, 2009)

LMFAO. new around the bike forum but this was indeed some funny $h!*

60mph lol... and "clocked" not gunned at that... i can only wonder what the cop must have been following along on to "clock" the speed?


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Actually legit question. What speeds do the average and pro downhiller reach?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> Actually legit question. What speeds do the average and pro downhiller reach?


Depends on a course. Kamikaze downhill - smooth gravel - at Mammoth had been clocked at 55 to 65 mph - on rigid bikes, from what I know modern courses are around 35mph. I would guess enduro rides like Megavalanche should reach into 60mph range. Unprepared bike will disintegrate at those speeds really fast.


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