# Did the used MTB bike market crash?



## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

I am seeing gently used 2022 Stumpjumpers frames not sell at $2000. I have a 9 month old carbon hardtail that I can’t sell at 1/4 what I paid this time last year. But I sold my 4 year old curly bar bike for 70% what I paid for it.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I don’t think the market has necessarily crashed yet, but people have definitely realized that the days of price gouging are largely behind us. I’ve seen a lot of overpriced used bikes sitting on CL and local marketplaces for a while now. Stuff that may have sold for a ridiculous price a year ago, but wont sell now because shops actually have stock. It’s hard to sell an older model for new price when a local shop has the new model sitting on the floor.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Most people went back to sitting on their fat butts eating chocolate.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

TylerVernon said:


> Most people went back to sitting on their fat butts eating chocolate.


Truth, local trails are not very busy in my area. Just the dedicated riders still riding as usual.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Still waiting for the prices on nicer bikes over at Pinkbike to drop.


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## Pushes up hills (May 22, 2006)

TylerVernon said:


> Most people went back to sitting on their fat butts eating chocolate.


In their defense, chocolate is pretty awesome.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Over the next few years there will be lots of used covid bikes for sale.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

I am observing overall bikes sales are lower than they were at the beginning of the pandemic. Back at the beginning, everything sold when indoor activities, like gyms, were so strongly curtailed or closed for 2+ months. Tack on the pandemic unemployment benefits given out in 2020, everyone new to the sport got a bike in 2020 or 2021 and the net result is now in 2022 everyone who wanted a bike but didn't use it much are now selling them because indoor activities have resumed. Most of these new bike buyers were not dedicated cyclists, so they don't care to have something sitting around collecting dust and are now selling them. In my estimation, the used bike market has a lot of material available while the new bike market is super expensive. Bad combo for selling or buying.

My LBS did exceptionally well in 2020 and 2021 so they placed big orders for 2022 thinking the party would continue. They were wrong. Overall inflation and market saturation have played against this shop. They have too many bikes for the market here in Santa Fe, where our National Forests are all closed due to extreme fire danger and road riding in New Mexico is one of the most dangerous things you can do (we have an unfortunate record for drunk driving here). It's the perfect storm.

The best bike shops, ironically, are not necessarily run by good business people. These are enthusiast shops first and foremost, which is why we love them. Getting their best business practices down well isn't always easy. My hope is that they are able to keep their heads above water while we find our new balance point going forward.

If you're selling now, expect a haircut. If you're buying now, expect to pay at least 20% more than 2020 prices for most bikes.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

The things you need inflate in price, the things you have deflate in price. Welcome to the collapse.


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## Wrongturn (Jul 17, 2016)

It cost me over $200 ($6/Gal diesel) to fill up my truck yesterday. I noticed the the prior purchaser at my pump only put in 3 gallons. People are out of money.


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

Wrongturn said:


> It cost me over $200 ($6/Gal diesel) to fill up my truck yesterday. I noticed the the prior purchaser at my pump only put in 3 gallons. People are out of money.


Yeah, I think this is a big one. I rented a car in San Diego two weeks ago and the guy working behind the counter confessed he put his last $20 in the tank and was not sure how he would get to work after that ran out until he got paid again. MTB is a luxury, inflation is outpacing wage growth by a factor of 2 or 3 to 1 (depending on how you measure it). As that continues the percentage of people dropping money on luxuries will drop. It is math. 

By the way, you better stock up on DEF for that truck (if it needs it). Shortages are coming.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Mk3Rider said:


> The things you need inflate in price, the things you have deflate in price. Welcome to the collapse.


It's like this is your first recession. I've lost track of how many I've lived through at this point


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

wayold said:


> Still waiting for the prices on nicer bikes over at Pinkbike to drop.


I was fortunate enough to sell my 6 month old YT on Pinkbike for 10% less than what I paid. Scarcity was on my side though as my YT has been sold out for a long time.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

@dysfunction I've been around for a while. If a person can keep themselves gainfully employed and are not buried up to their eyeballs in debt, things will be fine in a few years.

The statement from above comes from 1930's Germany. Don't have the actual qoute handy though.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Mk3Rider said:


> @dysfunction I've been around for a while. If a person can keep themselves gainfully employed and are not buried up to their eyeballs in debt, things will be fine in a few years.
> 
> The statement from above comes from 1930's Germany. Don't have the actual qoute handy though.


I'd have stood a better chance of recognizing it in German then. 

Please don't make me think about the realities of the Weimar Republic....


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

I am riding closer trails and doing pavement rides from home more. Cost of gas makes the idea of 90min drives to the preferred trails a harder sell. 


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Will the US finally adopt fuel efficient vehicles? Gas prices are about what I remember... 25 years ago.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

Next automobile for me will have a 400 cubic inch motor.




dysfunction said:


> Will the US finally adopt fuel efficient vehicles? Gas prices are about what I remember... 25 years ago.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Mk3Rider said:


> Next automobile for me will have a 400 cubic inch motor.


To be honest, I rather suspected that 'no' would be the answer. I'll continue to laugh while people whine about fuel prices


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

iliketexmex said:


> Yeah, I think this is a big one. I rented a car in San Diego two weeks ago and the guy working behind the counter confessed he put his last $20 in the tank and was not sure how he would get to work after that ran out until he got paid again. MTB is a luxury, inflation is outpacing wage growth by a factor of 2 or 3 to 1 (depending on how you measure it). As that continues the percentage of people dropping money on luxuries will drop. It is math.
> 
> By the way, you better stock up on DEF for that truck (if it needs it). Shortages are coming.


And not just the direct consumer fuel price, but also the increased costs added for trucking groceries, etc.


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## toyota_time (7 mo ago)

I have no ill intent for bike manufacturers or local shops, but I am going to wait for the economy to crash and see if a $5000 bike becomes a $4000 bike. Maybe even 3500??


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

dysfunction said:


> Will the US finally adopt fuel efficient vehicles? Gas prices are about what I remember... 25 years ago.


During the Great Recession the oil price per barrel was $140. And here we go again. Nobody can remember high fuel prices from just 10 years ago.

I expect to see increasing demand destruction, followed by somewhat lower oil prices for a bit, then increased consumption and even higher prices again, ad nauseum.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

The day when the world runs out of oil will be a major clusterfvck.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

the-one1 said:


> The day when the world runs out of oil will be a major clusterfvck.


We'll never "run out" of oil. What would happen is that it would eventually take more energy to extract the remaining, hard to get oil than you'd get out of it. Once you're putting more energy into oil extraction than you're getting from the oil, then it will be a losing proposition to try to keep pumping it out. That oil will remain in the ground.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

the-one1 said:


> The day when the world runs out of oil will be a major clusterfvck.


Also, it will be a gradual process. It's not like one day no more oil will be pumped. I'd expect it will take a few decades of ever-diminishing reserves.

It's hard to grow an economy with diminishing energy supplies.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

But it will eventually cost more to get the oil than it's worth doing.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

World will switch back to coal once other sources get too expensive. I feel dirty for typing that.

Hey, at least we will all be in EV's by then.



the-one1 said:


> But it will eventually cost more to get the oil than it's worth doing.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

the-one1 said:


> But it will eventually cost more to get the oil than it's worth doing.


Exactly!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Mk3Rider said:


> World will switch back to coal once other sources get too expensive. I feel dirty for typing that.
> 
> Hey, at least we will all be in EV's by then.


Energy density of petroleum>>>energy density of coal.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I've regretted selling bikes I loved so I decided not to sell the bike I planned too during the cough. In fact it just got new tires and a chain guide. 

I was drinking beer with my grandpa on his 99th birthday on the 6th. He was a boy during the Great Depression. He remembers the look of desperation on the faces of men and said it will be worse this time around and that it hasn't even started yet.

He started life and will end life watching social poverty.


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## Singletrack828 (Dec 28, 2020)

We don’t need to run out of oil for this world to be a clusterfuck. We are living in it now.


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## UPSed (Dec 26, 2010)

dysfunction said:


> To be honest, I rather suspected that 'no' would be the answer. I'll continue to laugh while people whine about fuel prices


Judging by the amount of people and average speeds on our local freeways, gas is still cheap.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

UPSed said:


> Judging by the amount of people and average speeds on our local freeways, gas is still cheap.


I had someone yell at me today because I was driving too slow. I'm in a slow lifted Jeep on tight twisty mountain roads for criss sake. Normally I'd let my lizard brain do the talking but I was on my way back from the range with several firearms and only blew him a kiss.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Wrongturn said:


> It cost me over $200 ($6/Gal diesel) to fill up my truck yesterday. I noticed the the prior purchaser at my pump only put in 3 gallons. People are out of money.


I'll put in 2 gallons... just to get me to the nearest Costco Gas. 

(And given the lines you see at Costco Gas, you can't blame me for running the whole tank to reduce visits.)



UPSed said:


> Judging by the amount of people and average speeds on our local freeways, gas is still cheap.


Seriously. I could only supposed that they don't know the gas consumption rate between 65 mph and 85 mph.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

The lines at Costco gas are comical. 


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

milehi said:


> I had someone yell at me today because I was driving too slow. I'm in a slow lifted Jeep on tight twisty mountain roads for criss sake. Normally I'd let my lizard brain do the talking but I was on my way back from the range with several firearms and only blew him a kiss.


Do what I do, just waive them by. Double lines, barriers, I don't care, I just waive them by. I don't pull over...I just see how desperate they are to go fast. A few take the bait.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

UPSed said:


> Judging by the amount of people and average speeds on our local freeways, gas is still cheap.


Lol…this.

The average speed on the 405 is 80mph. You got these huge trucks and SUVs going 80+. The same people that are complaining that their urban assault vehicles cost $150 to fill up.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

RS VR6 said:


> Lol…this.
> 
> The average speed on the 405 is 80mph. You got these huge trucks and SUVs going 80+. The same people that are complaining that their urban assault vehicles cost $150 to fill up.


Co-worker in his 2500 diesel passed me going 85mph on the way home today. I got 35mpg; I’d wager he got less than half of that. 


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Mk3Rider said:


> Truth, local trails are not very busy in my area. Just the dedicated riders still riding as usual.


Impossible. There are countless threads about trails being overrun with ebikers/endurbros/trail terrorists running kids, nuns, and baby seals off trails.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

Bring a club with for the baby seals, momma needs a new purse.



rtonthat said:


> Impossible. There are countless threads about trails being overrun with ebikers/endurbros/trail terrorists running kids, nuns, and baby seals off trails.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

dysfunction said:


> To be honest, I rather suspected that 'no' would be the answer. I'll continue to laugh while people whine about fuel prices


Yep... my MPG average from the drive home last night...









While this is a hybrid, it will be the last vehicle I own to use gas.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I don't mean to make light of people struggling to pay for gasoline.

But I watched as every person I knew purchased the largest most gas guzzling vehicle they could finance for the last 10 years, that they didn't need. I see the lines around the Starbucks every morning idling to buy their $7 coffee. Freeway traffic is still 80 mph, even big rigs are flying.

If you are so on the edge that an extra $200/ month in fuel (which should have been $75 if you had purchased your previous vehicle correctly) effects your life in a significant manner you have personal responsibility issues that go way beyond the entire planet's current inflation problem. You need to look in the mirror, not to the government to solve your issues.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

toyota_time said:


> I have no ill intent for bike manufacturers or local shops, but I am going to wait for the economy to crash and see if a $5000 bike becomes a $4000 bike. Maybe even 3500??


There is not a single business plan or revenue stream that remains unchanged and profitable over decades.

We might reminisce about something we enjoyed in the past and think it's our job to save it, however it's actually their job to adapt to the changing environment and seek success.

Individuals can swear off D2C sales, Amazon, foreign built goods, whatever. It won't make a difference because the world changes and successful business people adapt with it.. 

That doesn't mean that great shops don't have a place. But they have to provide the right goods and services in the right location to be relevant. 

I have local bike shops that don't do what they say regarding service, and have tip jars out on top of full retail. I have shops that have no inventory but want me to come in, pay full retail, order the item, then drive in and pick it up again. I don't consider that 'supporting the local shop', I consider that charity. I'll happily drive in and pay full price but you have to offer something. Great inventory, quick service, weekly group rides, etc.

Ultimately if I had a bike shop now I'd offer tons of tires/ water bottles/ tire repair kits/ droppers/ seats/ etc., very quick service, rentals, many inexpensive bikes, a used bike trade in service, new wheels ready for delivery that I'd order from China and build myself way in advance, coffee, supplements, and i'd cover shipping and sales tax if you order a new high end bike.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Yep... my MPG average from the drive home last night...
> View attachment 1987213
> 
> 
> While this is a hybrid, it will be the last vehicle I own to use gas.


Your Hybrid is cheaper to own and operate than any EV over it's lifetime. At this time.

I have an EV on order but it's not saving me any money.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

prj71 said:


> Over the next few years there will be lots of used covid bikes for sale.


Starting to see it now. A lot of people don’t know you have to maintain suspension and the other parts to keep it running well.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Mk3Rider said:


> The things you need inflate in price, the things you have deflate in price. Welcome to the collapse.


Recessions are collapses. They happen every few years.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Suns_PSD said:


> I don't mean to make light of people struggling to pay for gasoline.
> 
> But I watched as every person I knew purchased the largest most gas guzzling vehicle they could finance for the last 10 years, that they didn't need. I see the lines around the Starbucks every morning idling to buy their $7 coffee. Freeway traffic is still 80 mph, even big rigs are flying.
> 
> If you are so on the edge that an extra $200/ month in fuel (which should have been $75 if you had purchased your previous vehicle correctly) effects your life in a significant manner you have personal responsibility issues that go way beyond the entire planet's current inflation problem. You need to look in the mirror, not to the government to solve your issues.


I was thinking about this yesterday. When gas prices went up, my driving speeds are definitely slowing. Also, I’m really happy to not have as many dickheads rolling coal too. But the diesel trucks blow through here at higher speeds, and most people are driving faster, like they’re making up for long time missing during the Great Cough. 

Our next car is a hybrid, and eventually the other car will be replaced with an electric. Just need more solar panels on the roof. 

Bike prices going down I’m all for: because honestly it’s the same carbon 29ers that everyone cares about since 2019 and it still doesn’t make my riding any better, especially since all I buy is metal 27.5 bikes


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

While we can all point out financial mistakes (don’t by things you can’t afford, anticipating price fluctuations, etc.), people who were generally responsible will be swept up in the upcoming mess just like last time. I think this is going to be much worse. Regardless, there is no sense sneering at people who are suffering. Homeless people often have drug issues or some other series of mistakes, but we still should feed them or try to help. I think the economy is on the edge of a very rough period. Be kind. 

On the bright side, I think used bike prices will be really good, which means I will probably end up helping some of my NICA kids upgrade


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

UPSed said:


> Judging by the amount of people and average speeds on our local freeways, gas is still cheap.


They are desperate to burn up every last drop of petroleum so that their children won't have any when they grow up.


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

UPSed said:


> Judging by the amount of people and average speeds on our local freeways, gas is still cheap.


Yeah… people still out there road raging like they’ve got money to burn. 

Been able to stay working from home which I’ve been doing over 2 years now. I scoff at fuel prices but it’s not a huge burden. Heck, I’m going to need a raise if I have to start driving 100mi a day again. 


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

milehi said:


> I had someone yell at me today because I was driving too slow. I'm in a slow lifted Jeep on tight twisty mountain roads for criss sake. Normally I'd let my lizard brain do the talking but I was on my way back from the range with several firearms and only blew him a kiss.


Is that what they call shooting a rimfire nowdays?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Suns_PSD said:


> I don't mean to make light of people struggling to pay for gasoline.
> 
> But I watched as every person I knew purchased the largest most gas guzzling vehicle they could finance for the last 10 years, that they didn't need. I see the lines around the Starbucks every morning idling to buy their $7 coffee. Freeway traffic is still 80 mph, even big rigs are flying.
> 
> If you are so on the edge that an extra $200/ month in fuel (which should have been $75 if you had purchased your previous vehicle correctly) effects your life in a significant manner you have personal responsibility issues that go way beyond the entire planet's current inflation problem. You need to look in the mirror, not to the government to solve your issues.


It is unfortunate, but a great portion of our society is driven by their material wants, not rational thinking. Go into most car dealerships and people are buying vehicles not on price, but the monthly payment they can qualify for at 84 months. Homes are treated as a piggy bank. And why worry, when things go south, you will be bailed out. Your house won’t be taken, just the loan written down.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

Suns_PSD said:


> i'd cover shipping and sales tax if you order a new high end bike.


Shops around me would do this. I asked what the cash discount was for my Fargo and lbs covered the sales tax.

I’ve bought previous year bikes from another lbs at a deep discount. The pandemic pretty much stopped that though.

Not always, but I still get offered 10% off parts I order without asking.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Jayem said:


> Do what I do, just waive them by. Double lines, barriers, I don't care, I just waive them by. I don't pull over...I just see how desperate they are to go fast. A few take the bait.


I drive the the speed limit. On the highway I always use a turnout. With 5.13 gears, the Jeep is the slowest car on the road.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

milehi said:


> I drive the the speed limit. On the highway I always use a turnout. With 5.13 gears, the Jeep is the slowest car on the road.


 What year is your jeep? I was running 4.88 with 37s on a JK and it felt pretty good. 5.13 would have been ideal.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Suns_PSD said:


> I don't mean to make light of people struggling to pay for gasoline.
> 
> But I watched as every person I knew purchased the largest most gas guzzling vehicle they could finance for the last 10 years, that they didn't need. I see the lines around the Starbucks every morning idling to buy their $7 coffee. Freeway traffic is still 80 mph, even big rigs are flying.
> 
> If you are so on the edge that an extra $200/ month in fuel (which should have been $75 if you had purchased your previous vehicle correctly) effects your life in a significant manner you have personal responsibility issues that go way beyond the entire planet's current inflation problem. You need to look in the mirror, not to the government to solve your issues.


My neighbors all looked at me strange when I went from a 17mpg truck to a 38mpg sedan a couple years ago.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

rtonthat said:


> What year is your jeep? I was running 4.88 with 37s on a JK and it felt pretty good. 5.13 would have been ideal.


2004 Rubicon


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Suns_PSD said:


> Your Hybrid is cheaper to own and operate than any EV over it's lifetime. At this time.
> 
> I have an EV on order but it's not saving me any money.


Yeah, I did some pretty dirty math on it. Part of it depends on how you get your electricity. If you're solar/wind primary, maybe over the life of the vehicle. I did look at some EV's, but I just think they've got a little more ways to go in development. I was getting close to a Bolt....but then they started catching on fire.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Yeah, I did some pretty dirty math on it. Part of it depends on how you get your electricity. If you're solar/wind primary, maybe over the life of the vehicle. I did look at some EV's, but I just think they've got a little more ways to go in development. I was getting close to a Bolt....but then they started catching on fire.


I read that GM is cutting some $6k off their EeVees.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Suns_PSD said:


> There is not a single business plan or revenue stream that remains unchanged and profitable over decades.
> 
> We might reminisce about something we enjoyed in the past and think it's our job to save it, however it's actually their job to adapt to the changing environment and seek success.
> 
> ...


If I owned a bike shop, I’d sell gas.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

milehi said:


> I drive the the speed limit. On the highway I always use a turnout. With 5.13 gears, the Jeep is the slowest car on the road.


I feel that way driving the cummins dually with a 6 speed. Above 65, fuel economy plummets as the engine starts to spin out. The good thing is keep it at 65 and it will get close to 20mpg and still gets 16 with a 5000 pound trailer.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Cary said:


> I feel that way driving the cummins dually with a 6 speed. Above 65, fuel economy plummets as the engine starts to spin out. The good thing is keep it at 65 and it will get close to 20mpg and still gets 16 with a 5000 pound trailer.


My max speed is 62 with the AC on. I'm in the slow lane passing nobody.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

iliketexmex said:


> By the way, you better stock up on DEF for that truck (if it needs it). Shortages are coming.



DEF has a shelf life.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Yeah but it's many months. 

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Yeah, I did some pretty dirty math on it. Part of it depends on how you get your electricity. If you're solar/wind primary, maybe over the life of the vehicle. I did look at some EV's, but I just think they've got a little more ways to go in development. I was getting close to a Bolt....but then they started catching on fire.


I think the ticket right now are the Plug-in hybrids. Run on electric for all you short range daily driving and then gas for road trips.

If I needed to replace a vehicle and you could get them I would buy a Plug-in Rava 4.


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## toyota_time (7 mo ago)

Suns_PSD said:


> There is not a single business plan or revenue stream that remains unchanged and profitable over decades.
> 
> We might reminisce about something we enjoyed in the past and think it's our job to save it, however it's actually their job to adapt to the changing environment and seek success.
> 
> ...


Yeah I have a good bike shop that I go to, they are nice and helpful and offer decent maintenance plans for the bikes you buy there. They also price everything at msrp. 

I just want a good deal on a bike and would prefer not to buy used. I work for a company that manufactures industrial equipment and I know what some of our profit margins are. I can imagine what margins are for bike manufacturers, they will have to adjust at some point....that's when I buy a new full sus lol.


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

TylerVernon said:


> Most people went back to sitting on their fat butts eating chocolate.


Oi! Speak for yourself!

🤪


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Wrongturn said:


> It cost me over $200 ($6/Gal diesel) to fill up my truck yesterday. I noticed the the prior purchaser at my pump only put in 3 gallons. People are out of money.


Cost us $158 to fill our suburban with gas this week. But I am not complaining, I knew buying a giant v8 vehicle would not be cheap on gasoline. I have trouble understanding the idea that people are out of money. The job market is chock full of open positions with high pay right now. I work in IT and get hit up by recruiters every week, LinkedIn shows hundreds of open jobs in the market right now. If people are choosing to not work and don’t have money…….. not sure what to tell them.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> Co-worker in his 2500 diesel passed me going 85mph on the way home today. I got 35mpg; I’d wager he got less than half of that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Those truck get really good mpg, I bet he was getting close to 30mpg.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Suns_PSD said:


> I don't mean to make light of people struggling to pay for gasoline.
> 
> But I watched as every person I knew purchased the largest most gas guzzling vehicle they could finance for the last 10 years, that they didn't need. I see the lines around the Starbucks every morning idling to buy their $7 coffee. Freeway traffic is still 80 mph, even big rigs are flying.
> 
> If you are so on the edge that an extra $200/ month in fuel (which should have been $75 if you had purchased your previous vehicle correctly) effects your life in a significant manner you have personal responsibility issues that go way beyond the entire planet's current inflation problem. You need to look in the mirror, not to the government to solve your issues.


This 100%. I own 2 gas guzzlers, but I can afford the increase. My commuter vehicle is a motorcycle that gets 40+ mpgs. I only use my truck and suburban for towing or off-roading, not for daily commuting.we all have choices in how we travel.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I bought another car for my wife to commute in. A 1983 VW Scirocco. It gets 40mpg. Way better than her 2020 Mazda CX 5.


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## Oogie (Jun 9, 2021)

beastmaster said:


> My LBS did exceptionally well in 2020 and 2021 so they placed big orders for 2022 thinking the party would continue. They were wrong. Overall inflation and market saturation have played against this shop. They have too many bikes for the market here in Santa Fe, where our National Forests are all closed due to extreme fire danger and road riding in New Mexico is one of the most dangerous things you can do (we have an unfortunate record for drunk driving here). It's the perfect storm.
> 
> 
> If you're selling now, expect a haircut. If you're buying now, expect to pay at least 20% more than 2020 prices for most bikes.


 Maybe I should head north for a bike. I've noticed a few shops advertising sales on social media lately.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Klurejr said:


> Those truck get really good mpg, I bet he was getting close to 30mpg.


At 70 mph the very best ones will get about 20mpg. One brand in particular new averages about 13mpg.
At 85mph even the best one get about 11 mpg.
People love to exaggerate diesel mpg but I've driven/ owned most of them and nearly everyone I work with drives a diesel truck (I do as well but mine's a Canyon).

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

milehi said:


> I bought another car for my wife to commute in. A 1983 VW Scirocco. It gets 40mpg. Way better than her 2020 Mazda CX 5.


8v or 16v? I don’t think the 16v will ever see 40mpg. The 8v might see it costing down the mountain.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

RS VR6 said:


> 8v or 16v? I don’t think the 16v will ever see 40mpg. The 8v might see it costing down the mountain.


It's the 8v. Ads for the car back in the day claimed 40. I don't bother to check the MPG but she's spending a lot less. Plus it was her first car she had back in Ireland and it's the same color. And it's in amazing condition.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

milehi said:


> I bought another car for my wife to commute in. A 1983 VW Scirocco. It gets 40mpg. Way better than her 2020 Mazda CX 5.


I had to look it up, but the '83 Scirocco put out 75 hp where the 2020 CX 5 makes as much as 250. I'm all for improved mileage, but as someone who used to flog a poor old 1st generation 4Runner (with maybe 130hp) up the hill from San Bernardino to Crestline now and then, I can't imagine her drives up the hill are any fun now.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

wayold said:


> I had to look it up, but the '83 Scirocco put out 75 hp where the 2020 CX 5 makes as much as 250. I'm all for improved mileage, but as someone who used to flog a poor old 1st generation 4Runner (with maybe 130hp) up the hill from San Bernardino to Crestline now and then, I can't imagine her drives up the hill are any fun now.


Lol. My Jeep has 250hp but can't get out of its own way. I almost always take Old Waterman Rd up the hill. The VW is good to go up the hill.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> Those truck get really good mpg, I bet he was getting close to 30mpg.


Not even close. Drive 65mpg and a pre-smog 3/4 or 1 ton diesel will get 21-22. Newer ones with regen and def are about 2mpg lower. Also, the on board mileage computers lie, the one on the Dodge dually I drive is 1-2 mpg optimistic over hand calculations.

The 3 liter 1/2 ton diesels will get close to 30 mpg if driven at 65mph empty. You also only get a 1200 pound or so payload capacity as the heavier diesel engines reduce available capacity (remember payload capacity includes tongue weight of a trailer, 600 pounds of tongue weight (about a 4,000-5,000 pound trailer), 2 American adults and you are down to 200 pounds of additional load.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Pre-emissions, contrary to popular belief, did not get 20+ mpg unless it was a base model driven like a grandpa. The reason was primarily because they had 4-5 speed transmissions, whereas new ones have 10 speeds.

I put a few 100K miles on a '99 7.3 4x4 powerstroke, and it had a lifetime average of high 14s. That was stock (147 rwhp) and with mods reaching nearly 700 rwhp. No real change in economy.

My stepdad owns a 2000 7.3 that he recently parked with 495K miles. It's a base model 2wd, and he only drove it at 62 mph back and forth empty from Houston to Austin. He averages around 21 mpg.

The DEF system actually substantially improved mpg because the pre-DEF engines required a lot more EGR to reduce NOX.


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## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

Christ this thread devolved quickly.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It might bounce back a bit for some areas, with people wanting to commute more on bicycle...but that probably won't effect mountain bikes.


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## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

Jayem said:


> It might bounce back a bit for some areas, with people wanting to commute more on bicycle...but that probably won't effect mountain bikes.


Interestingly, I've noticed that SS bikes with tiny tire clearance (think ACC, Surly...) have been (and continue) to be easy to get ahold of. I would imagine that most urban commuters would gravitate towards these options because they're relatively inexpensive and so easy to maintain.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

milehi said:


> Lol. My Jeep has 250hp but can't get out of its own way. I almost always take Old Waterman Rd up the hill. The VW is good to go up the hill.
> View attachment 1987340


Love going up that way, 75hp in that car is fine, weighs about 2200 pounds. Still faster than my Dad’s VW bus going up. I bet you can spin the inside tire pretty wellon the right left switchbacks. Where are you at? We had a house on Hillside drive right off of Old Mill Road in Crestline.


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## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

I think the used market is slowing down, but, I think the answer to the OP is "it depends".

I've been trying to clear out some older frames, wheel sets, parts, _etc. _for months and they still haven't sold. Granted, most of it is discontinued Salsa/Surly stuff. I mainly use PinkBike which I have found to be more reliable than Craigslist or Flea-bay.

The 12 speed components on the other hand are like vaporware.


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

Is this about used bikes or gas?

You mtbr-ers are all so smart!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

atomiccityfun said:


> Interestingly, I've noticed that SS bikes with tiny tire clearance (think ACC, Surly...) have been (and continue) to be easy to get ahold of. I would imagine that most urban commuters would gravitate towards these options because they're relatively inexpensive and so easy to maintain.


Yeah, my brother just sold a city bike for $50 less than he paid years ago.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

atomiccityfun said:


> I think the used market is slowing down, but, I think the answer to the OP is "it depends".
> 
> I've been trying to clear out some older frames, wheel sets, parts, _etc. _for months and they still haven't sold. Granted, most of it is discontinued Salsa/Surly stuff. I mainly use PinkBike which I have found to be more reliable than Craigslist or Flea-bay.
> 
> The 12 speed components on the other hand are like vaporware.


I have had really good success with both craigslist and FB marketplace. 

FB has a bunch of local selling groups too that I joined and when I create a listing it let's me share it to all of them all at once. Gets a ton of visibility on that site. I pretty much only use FB for that.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

wayold said:


> I had to look it up, but the '83 Scirocco put out 75 hp where the 2020 CX 5 makes as much as 250. I'm all for improved mileage, but as someone who used to flog a poor old 1st generation 4Runner (with maybe 130hp) up the hill from San Bernardino to Crestline now and then, I can't imagine her drives up the hill are any fun now.


I think the 75hp is the early 1.6 liter European version. I believe the US got the 1.8 liter engine that made 90hp. The 90hp seems low today...but keep in mind that the car weighs only 2000 lbs.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

This thread should be renamed "Coffee Shop Talk". I have 4 cars and 5 bikes. My 4 cars use more more gas than my 5 bikes. None of them have electric motors.
As for the San Bernardino Mtns, I had a cabin in upper Moon Ridge for about 10 years. I hate driving up the front way. I'd drive Hwy 38 through beautiful Mentone every time. Way more scenic, and less traffic. 
I have noticed the prices on CL for used bikes has come down lately.


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## Champion_Monster (Nov 30, 2014)

Maybe. A local shop just sold my Specialized Crave Expert hardtail 2X10 for 700 dollars in excellent condition- new was MSRP 1800 I paid 1350. 50 percent depreciation seems right in line with a decent market but certainly not overheated.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

.......


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Tall BMX'r said:


> This thread should be renamed "Coffee Shop Talk". I have 4 cars and 5 bikes. My 4 cars use more more gas than my 5 bikes. None of them have electric motors.
> As for the San Bernardino Mtns, I had a cabin in upper Moon Ridge for about 10 years. I hate driving up the front way. I'd drive Hwy 38 through beautiful Mentone every time. Way more scenic, and less traffic.
> I have noticed the prices on CL for used bikes has come down lately.


I also had a cabin in big bear that I sold recently. If I would have known how much id be into MTB I would have kept it. 38 is the way to go. A lot less traffic, less windy road, and more scenic. Wonder how the water level at the lake is doing.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

No offense to anyone, but this recent Ad IMO comfrms the used prices are still crazy!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

C Smasher said:


> Is this about used bikes or gas?
> 
> You mtbr-ers are all so smart!


We're like a bunch of cats chasing after whatever red dot is moving around us.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

rtonthat said:


> I also had a cabin in big bear that I sold recently. If I would have known how much id be into MTB I would have kept it. 38 is the way to go. A lot less traffic, less windy road, and more scenic. Wonder how the water level at the lake is doing.


Lake levels are strong on the mountain and are near capacity. I lived in Big Bear for a year looking at property. I couldn't stand the tourist traffic. On Fridays I'd get my beer and steaks and shelter in place all weekend. It was impossible to get around unless I used forest service roads.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Cary said:


> Love going up that way, 75hp in that car is fine, weighs about 2200 pounds. Still faster than my Dad’s VW bus going up. I bet you can spin the inside tire pretty wellon the right left switchbacks. Where are you at? We had a house on Hillside drive right off of Old Mill Road in Crestline.


I'm in Skyforest next to Skypark but have a rental in Crestline off Thousand Pines. I'm the morning bartender at the Stockade and pour a mean Irish coffee. Have you rode the former secret DH track from 138 to Silverwood? Industry people and pros from around the world have discovered it so it's getting chewed up but for 20 years it was pure bliss.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I'll have to redo my calculations on how much money it costs to ride vs drive 20 miles. Food costs money and that's about 1000Calories on a bicycle.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

milehi said:


> Lake levels are strong on the mountain and are near capacity. I lived in Big Bear for a year looking at property. I couldn't stand the tourist traffic. On Fridays I'd get my beer and steaks and shelter in place all weekend. It was impossible to get around unless I used forest service roads.


Really, I remember it was in the double digits below normal levels not long ago. Last time I was at the lake one of the launch areas was closed due to the water levels being too low, causing a jam up at the other launch. Glad to know its back to where it should be.


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## Bigwaves311 (9 mo ago)

Around my area (Huntington beach) SoCal I haven't seen any signs of slow down in the used bike market or anywhere else for that matter. I also don't think there is going to be such a large rush for every one to sell their covid bikes. What i do think will happen is many people especially on the emtb side will end up realizing their batteries were not properly maintained and no longer hold a full charge. 

As far as the economy slowing down, you sure wouldn't be able to tell if you like to fish (my primary hobby). Good rods and reels are still sold out with long lead times and the popular charters full for the year, now booking for trips in 2023 with a price tag of $4-$7k. We go offshore 2-3 times a month depending on the conditions and each day out is around 150 gallons of fuel. We spent $1500 for the 3 of us fishing this past Saturday and it was so damn packed offshore and at the island its hard to believe any one is worried about a recession. I do believe there is ALOT of people out there with ALOT of money that simply wont be affected. The ones who will be hit the hardest will be the ones in the lower middle class, who take bad loans thinking that buying a $60k ev car to save $15k in fuel is a sound decision.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

I will have to disagree a bit. Just give it some time, a lot of folks with $$ (not wealthy but in the upper middle class that can afford a few more nice things) have a good portion of their net worth tied up in investments, retirement accts, etc. The downturn is already here, take a look at the markets. It will take a while for the ripple effect to make its way around. The middle class having less money to buy things will work its way up.

I think the problem is people are not seeing what is on the horizon and continuing to spend like everything is just dandy. It will come.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

milehi said:


> I'm in Skyforest next to Skypark but have a rental in Crestline off Thousand Pines. I'm the morning bartender at the Stockade and pour a mean Irish coffee. Have you rode the former secret DH track from 138 to Silverwood? Industry people and pros from around the world have discovered it so it's getting chewed up but for 20 years it was pure bliss.


Hmmmm. Gonna have to hit you up on that next time we hit skypark. Irish coffee.... mmmm


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## S1xtytwo (10 mo ago)

I just sold a nearly 2-year-old Epic for 80% of retail price. Maybe I just got lucky, the buyer said he couldn't find any of them new and I keep my bikes in very good shape.


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## drdre (Dec 15, 2005)

Curveball said:


> We'll never "run out" of oil. What would happen is that it would eventually take more energy to extract the remaining, hard to get oil than you'd get out of it. Once you're putting more energy into oil extraction than you're getting from the oil, then it will be a losing proposition to try to keep pumping it out. That oil will remain in the ground.


It already does, they just pump as much as it takes to get you that 1 gallon from the other side of the world. Tho I agree generally. The only thing that will stop it is when that gallon costs more than the value you get from most of the uses for that gallon.

Whats really annoying is that we have few replacements for plastic and fertilizer among other things which comes from oil. Without plastic and food, we are truly screwed.


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## jpre (Jan 15, 2004)

Perhaps my personal experience was just luck, but I've been sitting on decades of bikes I hadn't got off my butt to sell and a handful of mtbs went without too much trouble on CL. Then I listed a handful of road oriented type bikes and had a much slower to non-existent response.


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## Jipman (12 mo ago)

I was looking for a good used bike over the weekend on the various local boards and I'm not seeing any great deals. It seems like people still want top dollar for good used bikes....or am I looking in the wrong place?


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Jipman said:


> I was looking for a good used bike over the weekend on the various local boards and I'm not seeing any great deals. It seems like people still want top dollar for good used bikes....or am I looking in the wrong place?


Wanting top dollar and getting top dollar are very different things.

Keep an eye on those listings. Save or bookmark them and check. See if they start to price drop, stay the same price and never sell or just dissapear off the listings as sold. 

I was watching dirt bikes on FB marketplace this winter. Some say at the same price for months and never sold. Others dropped their price and then were marked as sold.


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## Jipman (12 mo ago)

Klurejr said:


> Wanting top dollar and getting top dollar are very different things.
> 
> Keep an eye on those listings. Save or bookmark them and check. See if they start to price drop, stay the same price and never sell or just dissapear off the listings as sold.
> 
> I was watching dirt bikes on FB marketplace this winter. Some say at the same price for months and never sold. Others dropped their price and then were marked as sold.


Funny you mention that...I am also looking for a dirtbike and the used ones are also pretty high...I'm going to end up buying new if the prices are this close.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

Jipman said:


> I was looking for a good used bike over the weekend on the various local boards and I'm not seeing any great deals. It seems like people still want top dollar for good used bikes....or am I looking in the wrong place?


Full bike or just frame? PinkBike has some solid deals on frames lately. Full bikes, not so much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jdr120 (Dec 7, 2009)

TazMini said:


> Full bike or just frame? PinkBike has some solid deals on frames lately. Full bikes, not so much.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same. I've been watching some trail bikes in the 5-7k range since Feb. Sellers seem to want around 500-1000 less than a new model. Most of them are still up for sale, and now I'm starting to see some price reductions. I've even seen some 2018/19 models for +5K (which is crazy to me).

I recently sold my road bike for 1K less than originally posted back in April. Although it was high end, it was old tech (2015, rim brakes).


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## Jipman (12 mo ago)

jdr120 said:


> Same. I've been watching some trail bikes in the 5-7k range since Feb. Sellers seem to want around 500-1000 less than a new model. Most of them are still up for sale, and now I'm starting to see some price reductions. I've even seen some 2018/19 models for +5K (which is crazy to me).
> 
> I recently sold my road bike for 1K less than originally posted back in April. Although it was high end, it was old tech (2015, rim brakes).


Yes full suspension bikes are almost new price and then are taxes....


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## Oogie (Jun 9, 2021)

I watched a surly lowside with a silly high spec build on FB for a few months. It finally dipped to a silly low price and I pounced.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

milehi said:


> I'm in Skyforest next to Skypark but have a rental in Crestline off Thousand Pines. I'm the morning bartender at the Stockade and pour a mean Irish coffee. Have you rode the former secret DH track from 138 to Silverwood? Industry people and pros from around the world have discovered it so it's getting chewed up but for 20 years it was pure bliss.


@milehi 

Wow, small world. My dad sang for years at the Rim of the World which was owned by Sherry Teeple, who also owned another bar on Crestline Drive. He used to also sing at the Elks Lodge in rimforest. 

I know the trail, have not ridden it, but shuttled my son after he showed me a video of it and started to laugh when I figured out where it was. My best friend lived in VOE and built the original BMX track across 138 from Camp Seely about 1982. I used to ride motorcycles all through VOE, Cederpines Park, Dart Canyon, and down to Lake Silverwood with friends. When I was looking for the DH track, I came across a post about someone who did the original build of it. Guess, what, it was my friend from 35 years ago. He was always a good rider (BMX Expert, Motocross) and apparently moved back there for a while before moving up to Washington.


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

TazMini said:


> The lines at Costco gas are comical.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They crack me up. I see people there sitting in that line, car running, A/C full blast. "Hey, I'm saving money."

We're probably doomed lol


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

And I don't know that used market has 'crashed' but definitely cooled off where I live (Co Springs CO). I've tried to sell a couple bikes for what I thought were pretty fair prices, no nibbles. On the other hand, I've looked for a used gravel bike, and not much out there to choose from.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Cary said:


> @milehi
> 
> Wow, small world. My dad sang for years at the Rim of the World which was owned by Sherry Teeple, who also owned another bar on Crestline Drive. He used to also sing at the Elks Lodge in rimforest.
> 
> I know the trail, have not ridden it, but shuttled my son after he showed me a video of it and started to laugh when I figured out where it was. My best friend lived in VOE and built the original BMX track across 138 from Camp Seely about 1982. I used to ride motorcycles all through VOE, Cederpines Park, Dart Canyon, and down to Lake Silverwood with friends. When I was looking for the DH track, I came across a post about someone who did the original build of it. Guess, what, it was my friend from 35 years ago. He was always a good rider (BMX Expert, Motocross) and apparently moved back there for a while before moving up to Washington.


Sherry Teeple, should we know her?

Or was it Shirly Temple?


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## flgfish (11 mo ago)

I am traveling this summer some, and was considering buying a used bike at my destination vs shipping or renting. A cursory look at PB tells me that I may as well buy new, if that’s the route I choose to go. It is honestly astonishing. I marked several to watch and we will see if they actually sell or not over the next couple of weeks.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Cary said:


> @milehi
> 
> Wow, small world. My dad sang for years at the Rim of the World which was owned by Sherry Teeple, who also owned another bar on Crestline Drive. He used to also sing at the Elks Lodge in rimforest.
> 
> I know the trail, have not ridden it, but shuttled my son after he showed me a video of it and started to laugh when I figured out where it was. My best friend lived in VOE and built the original BMX track across 138 from Camp Seely about 1982. I used to ride motorcycles all through VOE, Cederpines Park, Dart Canyon, and down to Lake Silverwood with friends. When I was looking for the DH track, I came across a post about someone who did the original build of it. Guess, what, it was my friend from 35 years ago. He was always a good rider (BMX Expert, Motocross) and apparently moved back there for a while before moving up to Washington.


The BMX track is still there but it's more of a DH jump line now. I snowboard from Old Mill Rd down to Camp Seely down that hill. Also Mojave River Rd to Camp Seely. It's a true Miracle Mile with 1000' of elevation drop. You need a three foot snow dump and a shuttle driver. There's so much to do here if you look. Speaking of fun, the town parade and 4th of July shenanigans are coming up.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> Sherry Teeple, should we know her?
> 
> Or was it Shirly Temple?


Long since gone. Really nice person that drank two husbands to death before herself. The problem with many who own bars. Have fond memories of going to herbig house for easter egg hunts as a child. I still miss the donut shop that was next door to Rim of the World.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

milehi said:


> The BMX track is still there but it's more of a DH jump line now. I snowboard from Old Mill Rd down to Camp Seely down that hill. Also Mojave River Rd to Camp Seely. It's a true Miracle Mile with 1000' of elevation drop. You need a three foot snow dump and a shuttle driver. There's so much to do here if you look. Speaking of fun, the town parade and 4th of July shenanigans are coming up.


Ah, I remember the 4th July parades and fireworks over the lake. The people running for mayor were always out trying to get votes. I asked my dad one time how they chose the mayor, his response: “Whoever buys the most beer.” Sadly, I think it was true.

There is only enough snow to snowboard in that area once, maybe twice a year, think the top is 5,000 feet. Have a lot of good memories as a kid there, even if I was technically a flatlander (spent about 3 months a year up there).


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Colo Springs E said:


> They crack me up. I see people there sitting in that line, car running, A/C full blast. "Hey, I'm saving money."
> 
> We're probably doomed lol


Crack up all you want, but they are saving money. It just isn't much compared to some of the less expensive stations. Compared to stations like Chevron, it can be significant. Especially if you have a large tank.

Just some conservative math...
Costco Savings per gallon: $0.15
Gallons to fill: 15
Savings per fill: $2.25
Idle Fuel Consumption: 0.5 Gallon/Hour
Wait Time Required to offset savings: 30 Hours


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

rton20s said:


> Just some conservative math...
> Costco Savings per gallon: $0.15
> Gallons to fill: 15
> Savings per fill: $2.25
> ...


I'm missing something here. Did you maybe mean 30 minutes (that would work out if gas cost $4.50/gallon).


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## palmasi (Sep 26, 2013)

milehi said:


> Lol. My Jeep has 250hp but can't get out of its own way. I almost always take Old Waterman Rd up the hill. The VW is good to go up the hill.
> View attachment 1987340


That is an awesome car. I had a 79 rabbit, 81 rabbit, 84 GTI. Drove them over 130k miles. Always wanted a Scirocco!


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

wayold said:


> I'm missing something here. Did you maybe mean 30 minutes (that would work out if gas cost $4.50/gallon).


You're correct, I mathed that wrong. 😁 

At my current local prices, break even is over 42 minutes. I've never seen anyone wait that long at a Costco for gas. I don't recall ever personally waiting more than 10.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

palmasi said:


> That is an awesome car. I had a 79 rabbit, 81 rabbit, 84 GTI. Drove them over 130k miles. Always wanted a Scirocco!


I had both a '80 and a '87 16v Scirocco. They were both stolen, though not while I owned them. I traded the '80 in on the '87 at a place that specialized in buying recovered stolen VWs and replacing all the stolen parts. But then the police showed up at my folks house and said they'd recovered my stolen Scirocco. I kept getting letters saying I owed storage fees and come get my car. I guess it never got retitled after I traded it in.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

rton20s said:


> Crack up all you want, but they are saving money. It just isn't much compared to some of the less expensive stations. Compared to stations like Chevron, it can be significant. Especially if you have a large tank.
> 
> Just some conservative math...
> Costco Savings per gallon: $0.15
> ...


The other problem with your math is all the other damage cheap gasoline does to your vehicle in the long run. I used to fill up at Costco and always had issues with my motorcycle. Switched to Chevron amd all my problems went away. I pony up for the better gasoline now.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

chazpat said:


> I had both a '80 and a '87 16v Scirocco. They were both stolen, though not while I owned them. I traded the '80 in on the '87 at a place that specialized in buying recovered stolen VWs and replacing all the stolen parts. But then the police showed up at my folks house and said they'd recovered my stolen Scirocco. I kept getting letters saying I owed storage fees and come get my car. I guess it never got retitled after I traded it in.


The other thing that seemed to happen to old air-cooled VWs was fire. My wife had an '88 Fox that did OK for a couple of years. We drove it down to southern Mexico and back and it did fine. Then it decided to burn one night right in front of our house. I put the fire out, but we just kinda left it there for a few months until one day it got towed away. They tried to bill us, but we just sent them a Thank You card. They eventually gave up.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

wayold said:


> The other thing that seemed to happen to old air-cooled VWs was fire. My wife had an '88 Fox that did OK for a couple of years. We drove it down to southern Mexico and back and it did fine. Then it decided to burn one night right in front of our house. I put the fire out, but we just kinda left it there for a few months until one day it got towed away. They tried to bill us, but we just sent them a Thank You card. They eventually gave up.


There was a short piece of fabric fuel hose that was often ignored and would lead to fires on air cooled VWs. The Fox was a water cooled 1,8l though.

I do miss the days when I could pick up type 2's for $500, spend some time and a small amount of money on them, and sell them for a fat profit.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

rton20s said:


> Crack up all you want, but they are saving money. It just isn't much compared to some of the less expensive stations. Compared to stations like Chevron, it can be significant. Especially if you have a large tank.
> 
> Just some conservative math...
> Costco Savings per gallon: $0.15
> ...


I dont use costco for gas but I think the savings are a bit more in my area .30+ per gallon.

BUT…you are not taking into account that time is money. Between work, family duties, and riding, I sho as heeeelll aint spending my time sitting in a crowded parking lot.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

dysfunction said:


> The Fox was a water cooled 1,8l though.


Oops, you're right. I guess it just burned out of a sense of solidarity with its air-cooled brethren.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Klurejr said:


> The other problem with your math is all the other damage cheap gasoline does to your vehicle in the long run. I used to fill up at Costco and always had issues with my motorcycle. Switched to Chevron amd all my problems went away. I pony up for the better gasoline now.


Fuel being delivered to Costco gets the premium additive pack at the fuel racks, same as the high end fuels. It's the exact same as Texaco, Shell, etc. Chevron does have an additional additive pack that is unique to them. 

The only fuels that don't have the premium additive pack (basically some conditioners, preservative, and cleaners) are the independent stations. 

The fuel all shows up at the racks exactly the same, and then the trucks, depending on where the fuel is going, get a big squirt of additive added (or not).

I personally would not idle my vehicle for 20 minutes to save like $2 in gas prices. That's me.

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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Suns_PSD said:


> Fuel being delivered to Costco gets the premium additive pack at the fuel racks, same as the high end fuels. It's the exact same as Texaco, Shell, etc. Chevron does have an additional additive pack that is unique to them.
> 
> The only fuels that don't have the premium additive pack (basically some conditioners, preservative, and cleaners) are the independent stations.
> 
> ...


My personal experience with a carbureted motorcycle tells me that Costco gas is crap compared to Chevron, Shell and 76.


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## Singletrack828 (Dec 28, 2020)

I have to agree with you. I run race gas in my sons bike and mine. It just runs better,keeps everything clean and the lead helps it run cooler. In ca I would always see so much debris floating in the bottom of the can. Crazy!


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

I didn't see anyone mention the 3% cash back from Costco. At $5/gal that adds up quick.


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## Joshhuber2 (May 2, 2021)

Colo Springs E said:


> They crack me up. I see people there sitting in that line, car running, A/C full blast. "Hey, I'm saving money."
> 
> We're probably doomed lol


My favorite are the ones in hybrids. Congratulations you just saved $2.00 for an hour of your time.


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## wolfmw (Dec 18, 2020)

just jumping at the end here... but how did this thread go from used bike market to arguing about VWs and Costco gas? guess I've got some catching up to do


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## jpre (Jan 15, 2004)

Joshhuber2 said:


> My favorite are the ones in hybrids. Congratulations you just saved $2.00 for an hour of your time.


With the amount of time people spend on their phones what difference does it make where they do it?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> The other problem with your math is all the other damage cheap gasoline does to your vehicle in the long run. I used to fill up at Costco and always had issues with my motorcycle. Switched to Chevron amd all my problems went away. I pony up for the better gasoline now.


Costco is top tier gas. Never had an issue with it in the Porsche or 2 BMWs with N55 engines. All are direct injection and sensitive to poor quality fuels causing carbon buildup. Literally been using Costco gas almost exclusively for more than a decade.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Suns_PSD said:


> I have an EV on order but it's not saving me any money.


True.
I was looking into EV cars for a while, but their price and the KWh per 100 kilometers on them is so bad that I wouldn't be saving much money unless the gas prices would rise to some very nasty levels.

But I live in the suburbs (village) and the only thing near here is a bakery. I have to ride at the very least 5 to 10 kilometers for all the different things like shopping, medicine shops, or the doctors office.

I like riding my bike for this, but I don't always have the time.

So I started looking for EV mopeds instead. They are very energy efficient compared to EV cars.
I test rode a few different models like Super Soco, Nui, Surron and some others I forgot the names, sorry.

In the end I decided for the street version of a Surron, because it was the only moped that can be easily maintained and repaired if something breaks. I can literally buy almost any part that this thing is made of. That was a huge plus for me.

It needs 3 KWh for 100km which is a bit over 1€ in electricity cost for me.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

OneTrustMan said:


> True.
> I was looking into EV cars for a while, but their price and the KWh per 100 kilometers on them is so bad that I wouldn't be saving much money unless the gas prices would rise to some very nasty levels.
> 
> But I live in the suburbs (village) and the only thing near here is a bakery. I have to ride at the very least 5 to 10 kilometers for all the different things like shopping, medicine shops, or the doctors office.
> ...


What is you math and cost on this?

When I pay 0.15 per kwhr this ay 20kwhr part 100km this puts me at $3.00/100km. Currently I am paying $16/100km for a Vw golf


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

Probably drive 100km for $3 on a 125cc honda grom / monkey / cub / ct125.

Takes 2 minutes to fill up, and you are on your way again.


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

LMN said:


> What is you math and cost on this?
> 
> When I pay 0.15 per kwhr this ay 20kwhr part 100km this puts me at $3.00/100km. Currently I am paying $16/100km for a Vw golf


Yeah I don't really see how an EV could NOT save someone money over using gas, at CURRENT pricing. However, as more people go EV, of course the cost of electricity is just going to increase, you can't win. 

I've been looking at used EV's recently, and came close to going with an e-Golf and nearly bought a BMW i3 as well. But I'm still just a little nervous about doing it, even though my style of commuting is pretty much perfect for EV use (all around town, daily commute 15 miles round trip etc). But I won't buy new, so I have to be concerned about how much the battery has deteriorated too.


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## Oogie (Jun 9, 2021)

Mk3Rider said:


> Probably drive 100km for $3 on a 125cc honda grom / monkey / cub / ct125.
> 
> Takes 2 minutes to fill up, and you are on your way again.


I want a new injected ct125 so badly.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Cary said:


> Costco is top tier gas. Never had an issue with it in the Porsche or 2 BMWs with N55 engines. All are direct injection and sensitive to poor quality fuels causing carbon buildup. Literally been using Costco gas almost exclusively for more than a decade.


Both those vehicles have an ECU to adjust as needed. My Carburetors were choking to death in the Costco stuff. Would not run cold, lots of stalling at idle, etc. I had to dump in carb cleaner every other fill up kn the winter grade gas just to keep it sorta running. 2 full tanks of Chevron and all those issues disappeared. Maybe it is fine for vehicles with an ECU, but the Carbs dont lie.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

EVs save a ton of money in fueling costs. It's the acquisition, insurance, & tire cost that are all significantly more than an equivalent ICE.
In the case of Teslas, they don't appear particularly reliable after 80k miles either and repair costs are expensive & the other brands are too new to really know. 

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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

LMN said:


> What is you math and cost on this?
> 
> When I pay 0.15 per kwhr this ay 20kwhr part 100km this puts me at $3.00/100km. Currently I am paying $16/100km for a Vw golf


The EV I was the most interested in ( an Opel E-Van) cost 50-60k. It has a 75kwh battery and around 300km of range,
Acording to some forum reviews the averange kwh per 100km for this model is between 20 to 25kwh.

I pay 0,35 cents ( old contract I will soon pay even more 😢 ) per kwh, so this EV Van would need 6-8 € per 100km if I charge at home. The charging stations are more expensive.
( Yeah I know. Germany has high electric costs and the cheaper electric companies all suck big time and are not even that cheap )
My old Van needs 12-16€ per 100km with the current 2€ per liter gas price.

So the EV Van is not worth it. The high price tag for the little savings are bummer.
I will keep my old Van.
My hope is that the future EV tech will be much more advanced in termes of energy density.

The EV Moped however is perfect since it's need so little energy compared to a car.

Yesterday I rode to a bike shop that was the only one still having the Specialized 2FO showes in stock for me to try.
The shop is 33,5km away from my home. I rode the whole 67km on one charge ( Surron battery is 2kwh ) and had 7% left. Pretty sweet and riding this E-moped is even fun.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Mk3Rider said:


> Probably drive 100km for $3 on a 125cc honda grom / monkey / cub / ct125.
> 
> Takes 2 minutes to fill up, and you are on your way again.


And .2 seconds for a driver to not see it and make a left turn into you or directly in front of you.  It may be better in Europe because there are more motorcycles and smaller cars, but here in the USA a huge problem and the cause of the majority of motorcycle serious injuries and fatalities.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Colo Springs E said:


> Yeah I don't really see how an EV could NOT save someone money over using gas, at CURRENT pricing. However, as more people go EV, of course the cost of electricity is just going to increase, you can't win.





Suns_PSD said:


> EVs save a ton of money in fueling costs. It's the acquisition, insurance, & tire cost that are all significantly more than an


It depends on where you life. Germany has very high electricity cost. 😢


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> Both those vehicles have an ECU to adjust as needed. My Carburetors were choking to death in the Costco stuff. Would not run cold, lots of stalling at idle, etc. I had to dump in carb cleaner every other fill up kn the winter grade gas just to keep it sorta running. 2 full tanks of Chevron and all those issues disappeared. Maybe it is fine for vehicles with an ECU, but the Carbs dont lie.


Carbs are incredibly simple and crude devices with huge orffices that won’t clog with any gas that isn’t flat out heavily contaminated. They also are extremely sensitive to changes in temperature as well as the vapor pressure of the fuel. Your statement about the winter fuel is telling, different blends and different operating conditions. Might be time to rebuild the carbs.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> EVs save a ton of money in fueling costs. It's the acquisition, insurance, & tire cost that are all significantly more than an equivalent ICE.
> In the case of Teslas, they don't appear particularly reliable after 80k miles either and repair costs are expensive & the other brands are too new to really know.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Tire cost?


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## Singletrack828 (Dec 28, 2020)

I’m just going to use these two small cars for example. Nissan Leaf starts at 40k and the Ford Focus starts at 18k. You guys are all about saving money but your car payment is nearly double. Unless they start getting prices closer together is an electric car really worth it? I don’t get gas but I spend 400$ more a month on my payment vs a gas car that gets 35mpg that costs 50$ to fill up a week.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Curveball said:


> Tire cost?


Maybe he means higher weight vehicles…but EVs aren’t “that” much heavier these days. In fact, ICE Mercedes E wagons and the equivalent Audis are pushing 5000lbs. Most mid size 4 door AWD stuff is up around 4K these days.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Maybe he means higher weight vehicles…but EVs aren’t “that” much heavier these days. In fact, ICE Mercedes E wagons and the equivalent Audis are pushing 5000lbs. Most mid size 4 door AWD stuff is up around 4K these days.


Not to mention, modern touring tires (what come on most EV type cars, wagons, and road oriented suvs) generally have treadlife warranties of 70,000 miles plus. For most drivers, they will be at the age limit of the tires by the time they wear out (really shouldn’t run tires past 6 years).


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Curveball said:


> Tire cost?


EV's often have EV specific tires with low tread (otherwise you can just give up 40 miles of range), they are quite heavy and they have inspiring handling and massive torque.

As a result of the above they are known to devour tires. 10-20k seems pretty typical anecdotally. For comparison I get 50k+ out of tires on my other vehicles. 

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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Suns_PSD said:


> EV's often have EV specific tires with low tread (otherwise you can just give up 40 miles of range), they are quite heavy and they have inspiring handling and massive torque.
> 
> As a result of the above they are known to devour tires. 10-20k seems pretty typical anecdotally. For comparison I get 50k+ out of tires on my other vehicles.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Well I get 10,000 miles out of Goodyear super car 3 tires…but 220 tread wear and crazy bad in moisture. Michelin PS4S lasts about 3x longer…talking about ultra performance tires here. I’d wager it just depends more on the tire and not driving like an a$$.


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## Singletrack828 (Dec 28, 2020)

Just curious if you guys rotate your tires? I had a Mazda 3 I got 126k out of my Michelins and my Cruze i 118k out of falkens. I rotate every oil change. Even my full size truck I had 90k on the tires and still wasent at the wear bars


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

OneTrustMan said:


> My old Van needs 12-16€ per 100km with the current 2€ per liter gas price.


Your old van get 6 to 8L/100km? Damm that is a sweet ride.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Singletrack828 said:


> Just curious if you guys rotate your tires? I had a Mazda 3 I got 126k out of my Michelins and my Cruze i 118k out of falkens. I rotate every oil change. Even my full size truck I had 90k on the tires and still wasent at the wear bars


I do rotate my tires. I don't have a specific schedule to do it though. I’ve never gotten 100k plus out of any tire though. Are they like 800 treadwear tires?😅

The tires on my GTI and A3 are 200 and 300 treadwear tires. Good for grip…but not too good for longevity. Both sets of tires will need to be replaced sooner than later.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

I thought about selling my eMTB. After dumping $1500 into my normal bike as a fun 2nd year COVID project, it rides so great to me now that I ride it more than my 2020 eMTB. So why keep it?

Other than the fact that I payed 6k for it, bought the $1400 bigger battery, made some minor upgrades to it. Just to 'not' sell it for 4k, despite the 2021/2022 version being out for 9k? Well, maybe I should keep it and let the tires rot off it I guess? I'm sure riding it a couple times a year justifies the cost :/

ah well. Bikes are fun.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

RS VR6 said:


> The tires on my GTI and A3 are 200 and 300 treadwear tires. Good for grip…but not too good for longevity. Both sets of tires will need to be replaced sooner than later.


I have 200's on my GLA. What are you running? my tires are discontinued and getting harder to find, but I can't find anything else in the price range unless I bump from 200 to 320 which I am not willing to do. I'm running RE-71R's that I LOVE.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Whiterabbitt said:


> I have 200's on my GLA. What are you running? my tires are discontinued and getting harder to find, but I can't find anything else in the price range unless I bump from 200 to 320 which I am not willing to do. I'm running RE-71R's that I LOVE.


I have the Hankook Ventus R-S4. Once heated up…they grip pretty good…but they are loud. They sound like mudders on a 4x4 on the highway. For my next set…I’m moving to some 300tw tires to get more miles out of them.


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

My wife got about 40k out of her last set of tires, probably the most we've ever gotten. In addition to miles, age diminishes tire grip and performance. I never keep tires more than 4 years or so.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Wow, we really got off topic. 

Anyways, this article claims that EV tires do about 28K miles whereas ICE tires do about 60K.

I'd say the 60k jives with my experience in non sports cars, including sedans. 

autoevolution: Famed U.S. Mechanic Says Low-Maintenance EVs Are a Facade, Exposes a "Dark Secret".








Famed U.S. Mechanic Says Low-Maintenance EVs Are a Facade, Exposes a "Dark Secret"


Pure electric vehicles are now a major part of our lives. If you don’t own one yet, you’ll surely do so in the future. That’s where we’re heading, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. But this U.S. mechanic says he found something unexpectedly costly with these zero tailpipe emission cars...




www.autoevolution.com





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## Joshhuber2 (May 2, 2021)

I like my Toyo open country mud terrain. I get at least 60,000 miles out of them on a 8000 lb truck. At $600.00 each for the "fancier" tires, looking cool gets old when they only last 20,000 miles.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> EV's often have EV specific tires with low tread (otherwise you can just give up 40 miles of range), they are quite heavy and they have inspiring handling and massive torque.
> 
> As a result of the above they are known to devour tires. 10-20k seems pretty typical anecdotally. For comparison I get 50k+ out of tires on my other vehicles.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Thanks, I hadn't realized the factors in EV tires.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

Looks like Germany is the first to start rolling coal again LoL 😂

While shutting down "green energy". ie nuclear power.









Germany shuts down half of its 6 remaining nuclear plants


Germany has shut down half of the six nuclear plants it still has in operation




abcnews.go.com













Germany will fire up coal plants again in an effort to save natural gas.


It was one of a series of measures announced by Germany’s economy minister, as Europe takes steps to deal with reduced energy supplies from Russia.




www.nytimes.com











Mk3Rider said:


> World will switch back to coal once other sources get too expensive. I feel dirty for typing that.
> 
> Hey, at least we will all be in EV's by then.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Cary said:


> And .2 seconds for a driver to not see it and make a left turn into you or directly in front of you.  It may be better in Europe because there are more motorcycles and smaller cars, but here in the USA a huge problem and the cause of the majority of motorcycle serious injuries and fatalities.


Actually the main form of motorcycle crash is a single bike crash. I took a one on one course from a retired CHP motorcycle officer. He said the idea that cars are the biggest danger did not add up to his experiance. Most injuries and deaths are the riders own fault.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Yes, I was a volunteer first responder in a rural area for ten years. For most of that I reviewed and wrote the dept reports. I cannot remember any moto crash that involved another vehicle; they were all rider's fault.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

Can't remember the stat, but it was something like 98% of single vehicle motorcycle accidents involved alcohol / drugs.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Klurejr said:


> Actually the main form of motorcycle crash is a single bike crash. I took a one on one course from a retired CHP motorcycle officer. He said the idea that cars are the biggest danger did not add up to his experiance. Most injuries and deaths are the riders own fault.


However, pointing the finger toward others is so convenient. People cannot own up to their own doings. Go figure!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

BansheeRune said:


> However, pointing the finger toward others is so convenient. People cannot own up to their own doings. Go figure!


yeah, and I am sure some of the idiots who crash because they were going too fast for the situation still blame the car drivers. I actually witnessed this very thing a few years ago. I was lane Splitting at a reasonable speed when a guy on a Honda Sportbike came flying up on me lane splitting an what I would consider an unsafe speed. I moved over so he could pass and you can literally see me shake my head in disgust. Within a few seconds of passing me he crashed. I can only assume a car driver did not see him due to the speed differential and he did not have time to slow down. I caught it on video:





I have seen a number of other motorcycle riders do stupid things like ride in the shoulder, etc. I am a firm believer that Moto Riders are responsible for their own safety first. The ONLY close calls I have had in over a decade of Moto Commuting happened in my first year of riding and they were ALL because I was going to fast for the situation.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> Wow, we really got off topic.


I think the answer then is that the used market ENTIRELY crashed, except for that one bike that you were hoping to buy.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Merlin has Shimano group sets for $600-800.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Klurejr said:


> yeah, and I am sure some of the idiots who crash because they were going too fast for the situation still blame the car drivers. I actually witnessed this very thing a few years ago. I was lane Splitting at a reasonable speed when a guy on a Honda Sportbike came flying up on me lane splitting an what I would consider an unsafe speed. I moved over so he could pass and you can literally see me shake my head in disgust. Within a few seconds of passing me he crashed. I can only assume a car driver did not see him due to the speed differential and he did not have time to slow down. I caught it on video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lane splitting is a death wish at the wholesale level. If I am on the interstate driving my one ton Chevy van, 8,600 pound vehicle vs. an anemic motoringcycle wouldn't have a good outcome unless you're a funeral director.
Stupidity reigns. Looking at I-70, people driving 80+ and tailgating in the right lane... There is no law enforcement and worse, no consequence until a mop up occurs. C'est la vie!!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

BansheeRune said:


> Lane splitting is a death wish at the wholesale level. If I am on the interstate driving my one ton Chevy van, 8,600 pound vehicle vs. an anemic motoringcycle wouldn't have a good outcome unless you're a funeral director.
> Stupidity reigns. Looking at I-70, people driving 80+ and tailgating in the right lane... There is no law enforcement and worse, no consequence until a mop up occurs. C'est la vie!!


I have been lane splitting since I got my motorcycle in 2010. It is WAY safer to have cars to your sides as opposed to in front and back.

I wrote a more detailed blog about it a while back.






Motorcycles - A Love Story


First I would like to preface this post with the statement that Lane Splitting as discussed is legal in California and this post is only ref...




socalroadwarrior.blogspot.com


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Klurejr said:


> I have been lane splitting since I got my motorcycle in 2010. It is WAY safer to have cars to your sides as opposed to in front and back.
> 
> I wrote a more detailed blog about it a while back.
> 
> ...


All I can say is the heavier vehicle wins lane space war. If that vehicle cannot breathe because you insist on crowding them, so be it. Just remember, I will move within the lane to avoid a hazard and at 8,600 pounds, you had damn better eat your lunch, cause the van's not going to be merciful. 

When I run a motoring cycle down the road, I stay clear of others, regardless of vehicle type, weight etc. out of courtesy and safety. Sure, peeps love to tempt fate however, that is beyond silly and right on, suicidal...

Open road, no others to harm, disturb or whatevah, do what the vehicle is capable of since the cops were defunded! Free for all, baby!!

Needless to say, be safe out there!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

BansheeRune said:


> All I can say is the heavier vehicle wins lane space war. If that vehicle cannot breathe because you insist on crowding them, so be it. Just remember, I will move within the lane to avoid a hazard and at 8,600 pounds, you had damn better eat your lunch, cause the van's not going to be merciful.
> 
> When I run a motoring cycle down the road, I stay clear of others, regardless of vehicle type, weight etc. out of courtesy and safety. Sure, peeps love to tempt fate however, that is beyond silly and right on, suicidal...
> 
> ...


You do know that the CHP also lane split and recomend it when done at a safe speed differential.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Klurejr said:


> You do know that the CHP also lane split and recomend it when done at a safe speed differential.


I have seen too many do that with a horrific result... Hamburger!!! It's all fun and games til someone looses their life! Sideswipe a one ton at 75mph while you're doing 100, gonna be spectacular in a movie scene but not where I can watch it live. I no longer have to shovel up remains since I am no longer a first responder...


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

BansheeRune said:


> I have seen too many do that with a horrific result... Hamburger!!! It's all fun and games til someone looses their life! Sideswipe a one ton at 75mph while you're doing 100, gonna be spectacular in a movie scene but not where I can watch it live. I no longer have to shovel up remains since I am no longer a first responder...


Going 100mph in 75mph traffic is NOT safe lane splitting, that is not at all what I am talking about.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I rode motorcycles nearly every day starting at 14 and finally 'retiring' at 46 because I was over it and had discovered mountain bikes. I've taken multiple sport bikes well over 50k miles. Raced motocross, won roadraces, toured large swaths of the country by motorcycle, etc.

When I moved from TX to SoCal after college I figured lane splitting must be insanely dangerous, I was wrong. 

Once you've been there and done it, and also the general public is aware of, and generally supportive of it, it's totally fine when the rider uses common sense. It's actually much safer than being stuck between car's bumpers in traffic. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Klurejr said:


> Going 100mph in 75mph traffic is NOT safe lane splitting, that is not at all what I am talking about.


I get that but lane splitters are notorious for crowding other vehicles regardless of class of said. That is precisely why I exaggerated to the fullest extent... 
Still ends up with more finger pointing when the damn wreckage didn't neeeeeed to happen, it was just egotistical selfishness that forced the hand of fate.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Not sure if this thread is still about the bike market cooling down but got this email today….


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## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

rtonthat said:


> Not sure if this thread is still about the bike market cooling down but got this email today….
> 
> View attachment 1988736


A desperate attempt to sell stock before consumer spending craters?


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

I saw the same email. Hoping that means things are going to become more affordable sometime soon.

And it is weird, it seems like the price of new bikes keeps going up. Yet the value of used bikes is going down some, at least according to what I see around here.

I'm wondering if this fall if we'll see a bunch of "covid bikes" that go up for sale as inflation/etc catches up with more casual riders, that realize they're sitting on a few thousand dollars of bike they don't use as much as they could.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Yeah, just like I've been waiting to see if all the #VanLife people start dumping their gas guzzlers. Still waiting. We'll see if Keynes was right and the markets can stay irrational longer than they can stay solvent.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

wayold said:


> We'll see if Keynes was right and the markets can stay irrational longer than they can stay solvent.


I'm pretty sure we've seen this in practice previously


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rtonthat said:


> Not sure if this thread is still about the bike market cooling down but got this email today….
> 
> View attachment 1988736


Going to have a chain shortage if everyone buys those.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

ocnLogan said:


> I saw the same email. Hoping that means things are going to become more affordable sometime soon.
> 
> And it is weird, it seems like the price of new bikes keeps going up. Yet the value of used bikes is going down some, at least according to what I see around here.
> 
> I'm wondering if this fall if we'll see a bunch of "covid bikes" that go up for sale as inflation/etc catches up with more casual riders, that realize they're sitting on a few thousand dollars of bike they don't use as much as they could.


I think this is starting to happen already. I recall seeing several posts on offer up with similar “dont ride as much as I wanted to” reasons for selling.


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

It's understandable that many of the Covid purchases would come to the used marked sooner or later. 

The racks at my local LBS are pretty full now, and I actually saw a few bikes marked clearance. 

Lots of ebikes available in all styles, plenty of mid-level mountain bikes, road bikes and hybrids, and kids bikes. Not much in the way of serious XC racer bikes, though.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

BansheeRune said:


> I get that but lane splitters are notorious for crowding other vehicles regardless of class of said. That is precisely why I exaggerated to the fullest extent...
> Still ends up with more finger pointing when the damn wreckage didn't neeeeeed to happen, it was just egotistical selfishness that forced the hand of fate.


did you watch the video I linked that i took?


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I buy and sell a lot of bikes. The used market is definitely soft and has been for a couple months. This would be on mid- to high-end frames or completes. The last couple frames — a Spire and an SB130 — I had zero offers on. I ended up trading for something else I was interested in, so it worked out OK.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Blatant said:


> I buy and sell a lot of bikes. The used market is definitely soft and has been for a couple months. This would be on mid- to high-end frames or completes. The last couple frames — a Spire and an SB130 — I had zero offers on. I ended up trading for something else I was interested in, so it worked out OK.


where abouts are you located?

I wonder if location is impacting this as well.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

wayold said:


> We'll see if Keynes was right and the markets can stay irrational longer than they can stay solvent.


Crypto...cough, cough....


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Klurejr said:


> where abouts are you located?
> 
> I wonder if location is impacting this as well.


I’m in Phoenix, but not really pertinent as these were advertised nationally as well as locally.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

dysfunction said:


> Will the US finally adopt fuel efficient vehicles? Gas prices are about what I remember... 25 years ago.


No. We in the USA like to scream about the free market except when it comes to things we want to be cheap.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

I saw Backcountry put some 2022 Santa Cruz bikes on sale for 20% off.

The world is healing.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

I put my old tandem MTB up for consignment. I about pooped my pants when the shop told me how much they were going to ask. I told them, "are you sure? Even after you take your cut I'll be making more than I paid for it in 2008". They were like, "yeah, bikes are in super high demand right now". It's been sitting there for 2 months so far.

Oh, well. I would have almost given it away so at least it's out of my garage and is someone elses headache.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

People are curtailing purchases. I'm not sure I would call that "healing".


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

I have noticed a number of Van Conversions and other "van-life" style rolling homes coming onto the market of late. I get the feeling that Overlanding/Van-Life is reaching the end of it's lifecycle and a number of people are no longer in love with the idea anymore. I expect to see the prices on those vehicles start dropping as the market gets saturated. MTB's have to be a close second to that.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

Bikeventures said:


> I saw Backcountry put some 2022 Santa Cruz bikes on sale for 20% off.
> 
> The world is healing.


The same at Evo. Although they are all 27.5 bikes, presumably bikes that they have a harder time moving as compared to their 29ers. 

I predict we'll eventually see discounts on all bikes, probably in the fall as shops have a ton of inventory and more are still delayed en route. Once they come in at late or after the season the inventory glut will be even bigger, with more sales and discounts in the fall that will bring bike prices to 2019/2020 (new) levels...


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

Hopefully it's all crashing. Looking to upgrade my fork and patiently waiting for used forks to not be $50 less than the cost of a new one on pinkbike.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

Loren0090 said:


> Hopefully it's all crashing. Looking to upgrade my fork and patiently waiting for used forks to not be $50 less than the cost of a new one on pinkbike.


New 2021 Zebs are going for $600 or less right now. Has my used Zeb now going for 60% what I paid 13 months ago. Causes a bit of a backlash effect as I tended to flip bikes and parts, but taking that big of a loss means I won’t be spending money at my LBS on upgrade parts and/or upgrading less often. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

TazMini said:


> *New 2021 Zebs are going for $600 or less right now. *Has my used Zeb now going for 60% what I paid 13 months ago. Causes a bit of a backlash effect as I tended to flip bikes and parts, but taking that big of a loss means I won’t be spending money at my LBS on upgrade parts and/or upgrading less often.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Link?


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## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

Klurejr said:


> I have noticed a number of Van Conversions and other "van-life" style rolling homes coming onto the market of late. I get the feeling that Overlanding/Van-Life is reaching the end of it's lifecycle and a number of people are no longer in love with the idea anymore. I expect to see the prices on those vehicles start dropping as the market gets saturated. MTB's have to be a close second to that.


Don't Sprinter vans get something like 15 mpg? At $5/gal that is 3 miles per $1. I think I would park the van down by the river and not move for a while.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Unfollowing yet another decent thread that’s going off the rails.


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