# Bikepacking Blog Rant (Job/Career is more difficult than trips)



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I love reading about adventures on bikes, and good photography is always a plus. I also like hearing about setups, gear reviews, and the sort. 

The thing I like reading the most? How an adventurer tailors his or her life around spending weeks or months at a time on a trip. To me, that is the single most difficult thing about long distance bikepacking. It's not the gear, it's not the route planning, it's not mental stamina; that can all be dealt with once we're on the trail. Building the kit and the setup and stamina is gained through spending time on the trail. If you don't have the time, none of it happens.

Tailoring your life for travel is far more difficult. I work a job that only grants me 2 weeks vacation. No unpaid. No ability to purchase extra days. My wife has nearly a month of vacation, but student debt and even our meager amount of bills requires that we have a somewhat steady income. And we're not consumers either; no cable, no huge flat screen tv, no car debt, no kids, no home debt, really the only thing we owe anyone is my college loan debt, which is average and rent/utilities. We're saving for a house, just so we can reduce on monthly housing payment someday. 

We pinch pennies, but that doesn't mean we can just quit our jobs and hope for the best. The job market seems to favor STEM fields, which neither of us are really in, and so we depend on years of stable experience to get us a living income. We have friends who have tried quitting their jobs in order to travel or bikepack across the USA every couple of years and their wages suck and they've got little or no savings. It hard to ask for $40k (or even $25k) a year when you're prospective employer thinks you'll just leave in 18 months to travel. 

Neither of us are dedicated employees, it's not like we feel we need to stay at our jobs, but we also don't want to be 40 yrs old with no savings still working post-college jobs. Have you been traveling so much that your wages have suffered, or making bank while traveling a month every year?

The ideal? Getting a job with a living wage that may not give PAID vacation days, but provides the ability to take a few weeks of a year unpaid. We could easily budget around $60k a year, especially if it mean 5-6 weeks a year to travel and adventure. Unfortunately, ideals take time to find. Did you find the perfect employer or perfect job and fit the rest around that career?

So, anyone up for writing about a real challenge on their blog? The challenge of fitting life around adventure or adventures around life. Or maybe even the challenge of giving up potential future happiness to live life today? "The Pros and Cons to being an Explorer."This is a far more revealing and personal narrative about life on two wheels than talking about your touring setup or latest trip to Patagonia, but it is also the story that is most likely to help someone else live the good life.


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## team_wee (Mar 26, 2006)

It's called sacrifices. Find a job that allows you to do what you want. I could get paid way more but I choose to work in a place that gives me freedom and lots of vacation to do what I want.(I still get paid well tho) Basically you have to choose what's more important to you and only you can answer that.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Team_wee,

Obviously there are sacrifices to be made. What I'd like to hear is how you ended up tailoring your career to allow for that amount of time off. What do you do for a living? Is it your dream job, or just a means to an end? Did you go to school to obtain the job you've got, or did someone say "hey, this job as a ******** provides lots of time off and pays well!"

Seems like everybody is always hiding what they do and how they got there.


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## team_wee (Mar 26, 2006)

Work for a university. Dream job? I really like it but it's still a job. I took a big pay cut in return for more freedom. I used to work in the private sector and made way more $$$ but needed a change. I did have a fair amount of vacation tho. I seriously hated everything about it, people, environment, location etc... now not as much disposable income but way better work life balance. It all comes at a cost and what you are willing to give away. No magic solution. I do feel privileged, I live where I play. BC rules! Actually just got back from a trip to the Chilcotins, so sweet!


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

team_wee said:


> Work for a university.I really like it but it's still a job. I took a big pay cut in return for more freedom. I used to work in the private sector and made way more $$$ but needed a change. I seriously hated everything about it, people, environment, location etc... now not as much disposable income but way better work life balance.


And see, I find this extremely interesting and I'd love to read about that transition. I wish more bloggers gave us some background about their transition to a life of exploration rather just continuous blogs that do nothing but make me jealous!


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

PH, a thoughtful inquiry.



PHeller said:


> I wish more bloggers gave us some background about their transition to a life of exploration...


A life of exploration begins the minute we're born. It's only later that many of us stop adventuring. Since age eight or so I've made it a priority, so there has never been any real transition. Career direction, education, residence location, spouse choice; everything is tuned toward outdoor adventure.



PHeller said:


> We pinch pennies, but that doesn't mean we can just quit our jobs and hope for the best.


Why not?

It's hard to leave a decent job or tell people you'll be unavailable for X weeks. If you want to go big and/or often, that may be the price of it. You have to have faith in your skills and luck. Be willing to risk not making the best bank, even not making any money at all for a time. That's the _sacrifice_ - security. It doesn't really matter that I'm an art director who's done mostly freelance for healthcare industries for a couple of decades. What matters is that I refuse to settle for a situation that impedes regular, copious time outdoors. Ultimately, peers will respect you for taking command of your life, or perhaps want to catch your mojo vicariously. A few will be resentful or envious.

It reads like you have nearly all the pieces in place for more adventure time. I would only add: Take more risk. It was said by an outdoor adventurer that _if you wait for the weather, you won't do jack shît_. I think the same holds true for economic conditions. Or __________ .

I posit that if you really want it, it'll happen. If not, you didn't. Save up some dough, make a plan, and damn the torpedos, lad. What, are you gonna live forever?


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Haha, great advice. Would enjoy more personal experiences as motivators.


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## eastman115 (Dec 6, 2009)

I'd like to add another option for you to consider.

I went from high school to university then on to grad school. I started working as a psychologist at age 26 and started with 4 weeks of paid leave per year. We started a family when we were 29. Holidays of course became family holidays. No great adventures, just camping in a trailer in provincial and national parks, but still the best times of our lives.

Funny thing happened along the way - the kids grew up. Soon they didn't want to go on family holidays and started working for the summer. "Me" time slowly returned. That's when the adventurous life began. First with an overnighter with a friend, then a couple of nights, then a week. I reached 25 years with my employer and went up to 6 weeks paid leave per year. Trips are now reaching 3 weeks in length. And now for the piece de resistance...

...I retire in 3 years at age 56. Increased free time with a pension coming in.

So, maybe another strategy is to play the long game. Stay healthy, adventure with what time and money you have now and you may be able to work yourselves into a position to do more of what you love.

Just another perspective.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm a bike mechanic, have never made more then 30K a year, and only work about 30 hours a week. I own a truck, motorcycles (as the urge strikes), nine bicycles, am able to pay all my bills, and still have about 10K in the bank. It's usually not a big deal for me to take up to month of and it tends to not make a noticable differance financially. 

My trick? Live simply. For a long time I only owned one chair, one bowl, one plate, ect. I have a bit more stuff now, but for the most part have gotten it free.


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

Yeah, it's fun reading about the people that are in their 20s and 30s traveling the world with nary a care, but I'll be real interested to see where they are in their 60s with no pension, health care, or savings. Hopefully they will be reading about me by then. 

I'm a middle school teacher about halfway through my career. I like it good enough to keep doing it. Pay isn't very good but man the off time is awesome. Wife is also a teacher so our schedules match up. It's a very demanding job, many times more emotionally than physically but it is also a good job.


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## Iamrockandroll13 (Feb 10, 2013)

It's easy.

Don't get married.

Don't Have kids.

Learn to live with less.

Ride your bike.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Iamrockandroll13 said:


> It's easy.
> 
> Don't get married.
> 
> ...


+1 - I'd add become so valuable everywhere you work that they are willing to accommodate your trips because they know hiring another you isn't going to happen.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Another option is finding seasonally based work where there is an intensive work period and an extended off season. I had a gig like that for 17yrs as our projects were restricted to non-winter work in Canada.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

One word of advice.....sales.
Find a job where you work on a commission schedule and your pay is determined by your production. If you work hard, the income potential is great and so is the flexibility.
It will be tough to find the freedom you are seeking if you are working jobs that pay an hourly wage, even if that hourly rate is a good one.


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## Spinymouse (Jul 11, 2010)

There are careers that have travel and adventure built right into them. Sometimes, those careers let you retire fairly young with a decent pension, which then gives you good room to maneuver to tailor life the way you want it. If you want adventure, it's there for you.

Oh, the cost? Nothing is free. Such a career may involve hardships you would rather not experience. Or, those hardships may be part of the adventure you crave. And if that's the case, you may not want to retire.


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## ChristianCoté (Jul 13, 2014)

I work in hotels. They're pretty good about vacation time because of the large fall-winter shoulder season when everyone except skiing lodges and chateaus are trying to cut down on payroll, and you build connections through your work to airlines, rental companies, cruise lines, etc. You get industry rates for any travel that you do and meet a lot of people through it. Between all of that I think it's really conducive towards a life of travelling. You can also pick up your stuff and move anywhere if you know the language and have a strong background in the industry.


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## schillingsworth (Oct 23, 2009)

Interesting topic. I regularly post ride reports on my blog, heck just posted one here today. I work 2 jobs, married, no kids. Full-time job is M-F 6a-2:45p as an electronic lab tech - nothing uber special there. Good job, decent pay. I've been there 6 years now so I'm up to 3 weeks paid vacation. There's also 10 recognized holidays + 2 personal holidays + 16 hours of PTO + 40 hours sick pay. I get creative with the latter time off. For example, I want to do a weekend bikepacking trip, but I don't want to arrive at camp around midnight, so I use 3 hours PTO & leave at lunch on a Friday. Simple stuff like that to maximize the time I do spend away.

My part-time job is for a local airline. Again, nothing fancy, but I've been there almost 10 years now delivering luggage!! Fun job, 3 evenings per week. 2:45p-8p (I move my day schedule up 30 minutes when working both jobs since they are only 10 minutes apart). The kicker? FREE unlimited travel for my wife & I, no baggage fees, huge (think 90-95%) off airfare on other airlines, hotel discounts, rental car discounts, really anything travel related. What I'm getting at, is what others have eluded to, find a job that has fantastic perks to help fuel your adventures.

It also helps that I live in a riding destination of sorts. Phoenix, AZ is rather loaded with fantastic trails, year 'round riding (yes, I ride when it's 115º), but it's ALWAYS prime riding season somewhere in AZ. Too hot for you in Phoenix, head north 2 hours to Flagstaff, Prescott, Sedona, Kaibab Plateau, etc. Too cold up north? Phoenix, Tucson are your answers. One of the more popular local riding spots, South Mountain, is only 2 blocks from my day job. Adventure & exploration are everywhere, anytime.

I have plans for the AZTR750 next year, the CTR soon after and eventually the Tour Divide. All require a decent chunk of time off while keeping the wife happy too - she doesn't ride. We've found a balance that works for us.

One other note, this past summer two friends of mine spent 4 months out on the Continental Divide Trail, riding and working from the trail!! They both have jobs that are somewhat remote, writer & software. So, they shipped a bounce box ahead of them, town by town. Took a few days off here & there and continued to earn money from the trail. Now that's doing it right.


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## A1Rob (Mar 26, 2014)

Those are some really great jobs you got going there freeskier. I would absolutely love the perks of working for an airline. You also kind of made me want to move to Arizona.

But I'm of the same mindset as everyone else on here. Find out what's more important to you and do a job that caters to that. If time off so you can hit the trail is what you love, then find a job that can make room for that. It might not be your dream job, but in the end you'll be doing more of what you love (traveling and riding). I know it's easier said than done. I'd like to change my job for various reasons, but I'm working on it and putting a lot of effort into doing it.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

It sounds as though most of you have tailored the career around the hobbies or exploration rather than just being lucky with your chosen profession. Sounds like I've gotta go with my gut and start looking for jobs based around time off, rather than salary. 

My current job surprised me with what they offered for salary (which after being unemployed for 5 months, I desperately needed) but like I said in the OP, I was surprised when they had absolutely no flexibility in time off. Now, here I am, going on 18 months, and the lack of vacation is starting to take its toll. I think the thing that bugs me the most is the inability to take unpaid time.


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## OfficerFriendly (Apr 16, 2014)

Try thinking outside the box, and I mean really outside the box. Think about what you love doing, what you want to make your life, and work out how you're gonna do it. Explore the limits of the society we live in, and exploit it to your desire. Changing it entirely on a fundamental is a very, very, very difficult thing to do. Ideally, that's what I'd like to do. But if I'm honest, it's too much for me to take on, and I just want to enjoy life. Life is short. Very short. And so I want to enjoy it, really enjoy it, while it lasts. And so instead, like I said, exploit the system to make it work for you. Don't drown in it, but instead ride the mother****ing waves. Life ain't working jobs, hoping that every once in a while the system will give you break. It's so much more than that, if you believe it to be.

She&I put it beautifully


> I posit that if you really want it, it'll happen. If not, you didn't. Save up some dough, make a plan, and damn the torpedos, lad. What, are you gonna live forever?


And Agosherpaxc, dude, no one gives a **** about living a steady life with ****ing pensions. And they're sure not gonna give a **** about you and your ****ing pesnion. I'm sorry, just what you're saying is irrevocably stupid and I can't stand it.

Freeskier, very interesting topic indeed. And I love your job! That sounds amazing! And a heck of a lot of fun.. I think I might just have to do that for a bit.. It sounds literally amazing!


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

OfficerFriendly said:


> And Agosherpaxc, dude, no one gives a **** about living a steady life with ****ing pensions. And they're sure not gonna give a **** about you and your ****ing pesnion. I'm sorry, just what you're saying is irrevocably stupid and I can't stand it.


In his defense, there are some teaching jobs that are pretty rad. I personally have long considered going back to a teaching cert in technology, as the stuff I work with is in demand (gps/gis/big data) and even though traditional subjects may spend most of their summers retraining, the technical educators do not have to do that unless for CEUs or salary requirements. So, teaching can provide the best months of the years do whatever, plus gobs of days off around the holidays.

I've met quite a few teachers who ***** about ONLY getting paid $38,000 a year...and they say "I've gotta work over the summer to pay rent" and I say "why not save rent during the school year?"

I dunno, you certainly won't get rich teaching, but its been an interest of mine for awhile.


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## iceboxsteve (Feb 22, 2012)

sherpaxc said:


> Yeah, it's fun reading about the people that are in their 20s and 30s traveling the world with nary a care, but I'll be real interested to see where they are in their 60s with no pension, health care, or savings. Hopefully they will be reading about me by then.
> 
> I'm a middle school teacher about halfway through my career. I like it good enough to keep doing it. Pay isn't very good but man the off time is awesome. Wife is also a teacher so our schedules match up. It's a very demanding job, many times more emotionally than physically but it is also a good job.


Personally I'd like the teacher who spent their 20's and 30's traveling the world with nary a care over the dude with a stick up his ass and who conforms to all the rules and dismisses those who don't. But that is my humble opinion.

As for the OP, I'm 26, I bopped a round a little after college, currently work in private consulting. Long hours at a desk, more money than I really need, and only developing a habit of sitting still and being unhappy for certain creature comforts.

I'm currently in the market for change. The girl is on-board and we are looking at some seasonal stints mixed with fare time off between every so often to travel. Then maybe grad school, maybe a job as a....teacher! For that awesome time off sherpa referred to.

Who knows if someone would hire me.

But I'm about ready to stop living unhappily because folks try to scare me with pensions and healthcare.

Here's a tidbit folks, we all die. Stop living in fear.


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## OfficerFriendly (Apr 16, 2014)

No, I've got nothing against teaching, I think it's a brilliant job, it's an awesome thing to do! Just what he said 


> but I'll be real interested to see where they are in their 60s with no pension, health care, or savings. Hopefully they will be reading about me by then.


pensions? Really? I'd rather live a life of adventure and excitement up to 20 than have a mediocre life and a ****ing pension at 60 :lol:

IceboxSteve I love you! You put it very well! Here's to a life of adventure and excitement. Go for it


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

Offshore oil and gas contracting / project work is how I've made my living for the last 25 years since leaving university. I tried out that corporate bandwagon nonsense once, utterly loathed the environment, peoples behaviour and general toadying round managers, 21 days a year holiday; definitely not for me, I quit after 3 months.
In the 90's before I was married with kids I used to take 3 to 6 months cycle touring, skiing, mountain climbing etc. Since having kids the extended trips have been a lot less frequent but I still get a couple of 2 or 3 weekers in a year usually - that's in addition to family holidays. The kids are 11 and 13 now; so in a few more years I will have more chance to get away for longer periods again
The work is stressful, anti social and I am away from the family for extended periods of time so it isn't for everyone. But the day rates are very good and I have always managed to save, have long periods of time off and pay off the mortgage whilst only working on average 6 to 8 months a year, so I can't complain.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

I appreciate all the opinions and info.

I can understand an adventurer being reluctant to disclose financial information, because it can open him up to criticism. Shades of that appear in this thread. The most active adventurers I know are basically dirtbags. They're rich in their own experience and their ability to inspire others, but they live hand to mouth. It's a broad discussion as to whether or not that's a "good" or "right" way to live. 

A guy riding on the divide (CO to NM to Banff, setting single speed record en route) admitted its cheaper for him to live on the divide than keep a residence in summer. 

To each his own. Assess your tolerance to risk and live accordingly.


PS: sherpaxc (Jon?), pretty sure we rode together a year or two ago. Cheers, buddy! - Mike (Pivot 429)


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## ChristianCoté (Jul 13, 2014)

It's important to remember that we all come from different places and backgrounds. What goes for a life richly led for some will be completely different from another's. Only you can judge how much satisfaction you have gotten out of your life and, as a person who isn't religious in any way, that's the only metric that I think should really matter.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Well said, Christian.

Something I didn't touch on is age/ability. Some of the things I've done, I would probably not be able to do as a senior. I'm cool with being past my physical prime, but I wouldn't be okay with deferring the majority of my time off to my golden years. That's a primary driver for me, using my physical abilities while they exist.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Your life can be over 10 minutes from now and your health can change even more easily.

Any plan that involves deferring stuff you want to do years or decades down the road is fraught with risk.

While I will plan a big trip 1-5 years out I make sure I'm always getting smaller objectives accomplished. I never assume I'll be alive in 5yrs or able to ride a bike.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Vik, by that same token, having medical insurance is probably the number one issue, especially if you've got a family. Even if you're a single dude, an extended stay in the hospital may land you with $5,000k in debt and an inability to work for months on end, and to compound that, no ability to travel either. On the flip side, insurance is freakin expensive!

Canadians and Europeans have an advantage in this regard. 

I've been using Linkedin a lot lately, as well as other job search/career field discussion boards to try and determine if there are major employers in my industry who have more lax vacation policies. It's really funny how some of the best employers in the USA still cling to this idea that 2 weeks vacation is "enough" while using the bait and switch tactic of higher salaries, higher responsibilities, higher stress, and higher burnout. 

I've been trying to find and employee owned company in my field, as those seem to be the most flexible and progressive.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PHeller said:


> Canadians and Europeans have an advantage in this regard.


+1 - I've considered moving to the US to work and not having universal healthcare coverage is one of the key drawbacks to that idea.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

vikb said:


> Any plan that involves deferring stuff you want to do years or decades down the road is fraught with risk.


That's worth repeating.

I'm gonna play it safe


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## ChristianCoté (Jul 13, 2014)

vikb said:


> +1 - I've considered moving to the US to work and not having universal healthcare coverage is one of the key drawbacks to that idea.


My girlfriend lives in New York and when I mention in passing benefits that I assume everyone gets and she's absolutely shocked at them... it horrifies me.

I'm not the one moving (he tells himself, knowing it is not true).


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

PHeller said:


> Vik, by that same token, having medical insurance is probably the number one issue, especially if you've got a family. Even if you're a single dude, an extended stay in the hospital may land you with $5,000k in debt and an inability to work for months on end, and to compound that, no ability to travel either. On the flip side, insurance is freakin expensive!
> 
> Canadians and Europeans have an advantage in this regard.
> 
> ...


Debt, especially medical, isn't a big a threat as people make it out to be. I have cheap insurance through work that takes care of emergency stuff, and gets me the "negotiated" rates, and I just let the other stuff rack up untill I have some spare cash. It's not like they can repo care.

Most other debt is usually your fault anyways. Don't buy stuff you can't afford, it really is that simple. Most people just need to reevaluate their definition of "need".


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

big_papa_nuts said:


> Debt, especially medical, isn't a big a threat as people make it out to be. I have cheap insurance through work that takes care of emergency stuff, and gets me the "negotiated" rates, and I just let the other stuff rack up untill I have some spare cash. It's not like they can repo care.
> 
> Most other debt is usually your fault anyways. Don't buy stuff you can't afford, it really is that simple. Most people just need to reevaluate their definition of "need".


Wow. Having had a teenage son who developed an MS like disease, spent 1 night in the hospital, a half dozen specialists, my job which provides me with what Americans consider "great" coverage... my out of pocket was over 10K, we are still paying, they can't repo it, but it does go to collection. That 10K does not include what I pay out of every paycheck, which unlike you evidently, is not cheap. I am scared to death of the next medical "scare" my family of four may find ourselves in.

big-papa-nut: May you never experience what I did, or have the incessant calls by not-so-nice bill collectors. I hope you get the luxury to live in complete ignorance of the F'ed up health system we've gotten ourselves into.


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## Iamrockandroll13 (Feb 10, 2013)

vikb said:


> Your life can be over 10 minutes from now and your health can change even more easily.
> 
> Any plan that involves deferring stuff you want to do years or decades down the road is fraught with risk.


This is probably one of the best bits of wisdom I've seen on the internet.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

seedub said:


> Wow. Having had a teenage son who developed an MS like disease, spent 1 night in the hospital, a half dozen specialists, my job which provides me with what Americans consider "great" coverage... my out of pocket was over 10K, we are still paying, they can't repo it, but it does go to collection. That 10K does not include what I pay out of every paycheck, which unlike you evidently, is not cheap. I am scared to death of the next medical "scare" my family of four may find ourselves in.
> 
> big-papa-nut: May you never experience what I did, or have the incessant calls by not-so-nice bill collectors. I hope you get the luxury to live in complete ignorance of the F'ed up health system we've gotten ourselves into.


Bill collectors and credit scores don't scare me. I actually have about 7k in medical debt right now. I just pay them what I can afford and hang up on an if they call me. Life goes on.


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## Spinymouse (Jul 11, 2010)

vikb said:


> Your life can be over 10 minutes from now and your health can change even more easily.
> 
> Any plan that involves deferring stuff you want to do years or decades down the road is fraught with risk.


Agreed. But the reason this is a hard topic is that most of us want several things. Unfortunately, some of the things we want can appear to be mutually exclusive.

We make choices to prioritize one thing over another. Sometimes there is no option but to take the long view and delay gratification of one "want" while we address another.

The true risk there isn't in the delay itself (during which an accident might leave you dead or crippled), the real risk is of becoming bitter and resentful about one's choice.

Adventure takes many forms. Bicycles are one way to find adventure. But, there is also adventure in having children, marriage, and a worthwhile career. It's all in how you do it.


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## ECR (Sep 25, 2013)

vikb said:


> Your life can be over 10 minutes from now and your health can change even more easily.
> 
> Any plan that involves deferring stuff you want to do years or decades down the road is fraught with risk.


^this

I have been paid well over the years and have been building up a nice retirement account. Had plans to retire at 62 or take an even earlier retirement if laid off. The lay-off finally came in February when company outsourced all their IT support and then 2 weeks later I injured my back. I have spent 12k in medical expenses since I was laid off and have had to put my retirement plans for bikepacking and backpacking the Americas on hold indefinitely(if not permanently). Never had back issues before, been health conscious and physically active my whole life and envisioned myself physically active for many years to come. Even Murphy could not have planned it any better.

Hoping this is just a temporary setback, but it has been over 6 months now. Therapist recently discovered that it is actually my hips which have been keeping my back from recovering and I have begun exercises to strengthen muscles which may help my hips stay in alignment so they won't cause my back problems. I did injure my hips in a car accident back in 1987 and that may have finally caught up with me.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Spinymouse said:


> The true risk there isn't in the delay itself (during which an accident might leave you dead or crippled), the real risk is of becoming bitter and resentful about one's choice.


I hear you on that. I've never gotten married or had kids for exactly these reasons.

I don't visit my family over the holidays. I don't waste time off going to weddings.

If you are my GF and you want to see me on weekends and holidays you come riding, camping, surfing, etc...

I don't compromise a lot. If you like to adventure you might think it's a great way to live. If you are my family or an ex-GF you might think I'm a dick.

I have close friends with kids who are doing the "normal" responsible married life thing and while I respect their choices I would be bitter and twisted in 6 months.

You have to figure out what matters most to you and pursue things in that order of priority. If you are honest about how you evaluate and prioritize things in your life you won't be resentful of what you are doing. In fact you'll be at peace with yourself and the sacrifices you've made.


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## icecreamjay (Apr 13, 2004)

My thoughts on this topic are to enjoy life and take pleasure in the little things. I have too many responsibilities in my life to take off on long adventures, but I don't let it get me down. I ride when I can, do occasional overnights bike packing, and mix that in with kids, wife, running a business, volunteering at school, softball, and trail work. Not to mention being a homeowner. 

So unfortunately I have to put off many of my dream trips, but I wouldn't change a thing. Obviously the way I live my life isn't for everyone, and I do get envious when I read about awesome blog reports and such, but I try to stay positive and try to travel vicariously through others and be happy for them instead of being bitter that I'm stuck in my office.

I think that's my point and the key to my philosophy in life. To step back and appreciate what I have, instead of watching everyone else and getting jealous. There are a LOT of people out there who have it worse than me. 

So although I do have to defer some of my dreams and there is the risk that physically I won't be able to do some stuff. I still try to fully appreciate every ride, every second I spend with my family, every beautiful day, hell, even the rainy ones. Life is too short to be miserable.




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## icecreamjay (Apr 13, 2004)

And oh yeah, turn off the damn TV!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ECR said:


> Hoping this is just a temporary setback, but it has been over 6 months now.


I hope you get back on the bike soon


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## Ivan67 (Aug 23, 2013)

I have been living on my bike since April 22, 2004 traveling around Europe. Before that I did 20 years in the US Army Special Forces, first 12 years enlisted (18B) and last 8 years Warrant Officer (180A). My last ten years of service I was mostly deployed, mobilized or training in a remote and austere area. My childhood consisted of growing up as a single child on a 16,000 acre South Texas cattle ranch, in a community so small that school was let out during certain seasons and harvest times.

So when I retired on April 8th, 2014 from the Army I knew I sure as **** did not want to go home and be a farmer, I did not want to take any of the jobs I could have had according to my military career. I only wanted to live for me and do what ever the hell I want to do, where and when I wanted to. So sitting in the Atlanta International Airport I came to the conclussion that my life just now started to blow really bad and would only get worse if I went home or took a job, so at the spur of the moment I decided I would take my bike over to Europe and just ride. I called my old commander and asked him to locate my house hold goods that where being shipped back to Texas and hold them for me. I made my way back to Bragg, saw my old Commander, got my bike, some of my gear and purchased a few new things. Then got on the next thing smoking to Lisbon. Been running Europe since then.

I started off alone here of course, then some of my old Team has gotten out and a couple of them have joined me doing the same thing, few guys our Team worked with from other NATO forces joined up with us as well. As a whole we spend the entire summer together, there is 39 of us right now. During the other months we all pretty much go our own way. The group that I stay with all year riding is only 4 others. We mark our tracks, make notes about the rides and places we see and then share that intel with our group when we join up in the summer.

I think it is a great life, I feel sorry for those who do not have our lifestyle. Before my father passed away my only source of income was a 50% base pay retirement check of W2 combined with my VA disability rating. Not very much at all. However I could live like a king in the bush and have all the fun I want or back to job, house, ranch or what ever and work my ass off to stay above water.

In my years I have found other ways to make money, like in summer I do lots of fishing in Italy ad sell most my catch to tourist. After my father passed away I began collecting a decent amount for the oil we lease out, the cattle ranching space and the hunting leases. I do not even have access to the accounts that this money goes to, I can view it online but thats it. The neighbor who manages the ranch for me deals with my taxes, all the lease agreements and royalities collected. But I have never needed access to that money either.

I would say our does just fine, we even have a fund set up between all of us for other former Special Forces vets who would like to join us or ones that are not sure what they want to do.

I have heard the rumors about how mentally this screws with folks but I have never seen my self, but I grew up in the bush, worked the bush and now have retired in the bush. I could not think of another way to live, to me any other way is a painful death.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Ivan, I don't think anyone will fault you for your choice, and personally I think anyone in our armed forces deserves that amount of freedom. Keep on doin what you wanna do, man. 

That being said, if I could go back and do all it over, military service may have factored into my choices. I can't go back, so I don't have the freedom of income that Ivan does.


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## icecreamjay (Apr 13, 2004)

I think this is a great thread and really thought provoking. It comes down to really personal choices about what's important to you and how you live your life. Everyone is different and you only get one time around. It's about finding your own balance point between the things that are important to you and there are no right and wrong answers. 

I think we'd all like to spend more time "away from it all". It all comes down to making the most of the time you have.


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

^^^^agree with the above.

To me it is all about risk management or tolerance and what you personally would accept. I had the opportunity in my early 20's to earn a living (or at least try) as a skier. It was very tempting, but I couldn't get past my vision of living at 60+ without any way to securely retire. My personal risk tolerance wouldn't allow it.

So, I finished by Finance/Econ degree and joined the corporate world. 25yrs with the same company, so now I have close to 33 days off a year, plus holidays. 401k, pension, solid income and the ability to do what I want, when I want. This isn't for everybody, and Yes, I do get jealous of what I could have had from my 20s to 40. But, I also know that deep down, I wouldn't have been happy without doing what I needed to do in order to provide a safe future for me and my family.

Oddly enough, I probably get all of my risk taking by racing and riding MTBs as fast as possible


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## Marna_Kazmaier (Sep 11, 2014)

big_papa_nuts said:


> I'm a bike mechanic, have never made more then 30K a year, and only work about 30 hours a week. I own a truck, motorcycles (as the urge strikes), nine bicycles, am able to pay all my bills, and still have about 10K in the bank. It's usually not a big deal for me to take up to month of and it tends to not make a noticable differance financially.
> 
> My trick? Live simply. For a long time I only owned one chair, one bowl, one plate, ect. I have a bit more stuff now, but for the most part have gotten it free.


Us too. We live off grid, waaaaay out on the prairie with few financial obligations. And plan to keep it that way. We work from home. We have backpacked with dogs (they and us wearing packs), goats, llamas, donkeys, horses (all our own animals) and of course our bikes.

If you want to know what is REALLY important to a person, look at what they spend their money on. We want to have fun in life.


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## icecreamjay (Apr 13, 2004)

+1 to living simply. I feel bad for the people who are too into "stuff". I value free time more than fancy stuff. Except maybe for my bikes....


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

I have gone the exact opposite route. I don't get to take months off or that sort of thing. but I do get to take a lot of 3-4 days off. Basically a trip a month some times 2 trips a month. The reality is, I employ people. I can take time off because I pay good people to come to work for me. I than get to go play a lot, in the short term. Longterm playing is hard to come by. When the cat is away the mice will play. But I got a trip in sept, another in October and a gooder coming up in November. So become an entrenpenour and stop trying to go the minimized route. branch out and broaden your horizons. Penny pinching works for a short period, but it doesn't get you anywhere in the long term. look to where you want to be in life, and work the steps backwards to where you are now. you now have the path forward to take.


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## Spinymouse (Jul 11, 2010)

There is a difference between penny pinching and living a simple life with few material desires.

Penny pinching is poverty.

Having simple inexpensive needs is wealth.


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## Spinymouse (Jul 11, 2010)

PHeller said:


> That being said, if I could go back and do all it over, military service may have factored into my choices. I can't go back, so I don't have the freedom of income that Ivan does.


29 years in the US Army. Still serving. After my wife and kids, it's the best choice I ever made.

While some experiences have been awful, I've had many more moments when I turned to one of my friends and said with a big grin, "I can't believe they actually pay us to do this!" To steal a line from my Navy friends, "It's not just a job. It's an adventure."


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Another thing to consider is that if you wait until later you may not have the energy/drive/curiosity anymore. There are exceptions but they are usually folks who have always been doing it. At 64 I have no problem riding my bike, but I have less energy for the logistics that accompany many ventures. I have mountain biked in many places in the last 29 years, now I'm more about the ride and I have found no better place than where I live. Even the four hour drive to Moab seems like a lot of hassle and money per hour of actual quality riding, I can buy better beer at the local supermarket, plus I would be in a crowd of tourons... now I have a mountain to myself and a few close friends, and miles and miles of dream trail. Seems there's no place like home.

Anyhow, that's how it goes... beware!


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Spinymouse said:


> Having simple inexpensive needs is wealth.


Thanks for that, Spiny.

Tim, it's great that you've found what works for you. Applause there. 3-4 days a couple times a month sounds pretty good for a business owner. But that's not going to cut it for bikepacking anywhere away from where you live, unless you're into one night stands. Size matters. The essence of bikepacking is going big and purging normal life to get into the zone. Pretty sure that's why this thread is in Bikepacking/Expedition and not another sub forum.

Cheers...


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

OfficerFriendly said:


> And Agosherpaxc, dude, no one gives a **** about living a steady life with ****ing pensions. And they're sure not gonna give a **** about you and your ****ing pesnion. I'm sorry, just what you're saying is irrevocably stupid and I can't stand it.
> 
> !


Wow, you're passionate.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

she and I 

you are missing the point. find a way to play and get paid. It is not always about cutting stuff out. sometimes adding the right mix puts you farther ahead in whatever you want. I do a lot of 3-4 days because it works for me. The 3 weeks I took off last fall to go to Alaska, worked well also. 

I guess it is not always about quitting your job and saving money. But creating something that allows you to do what you want to do. And I am all about creating right now in my life and business.

think about the bike shop owner who rode his bike to the southpole. now that is an expedition.


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## skylerd (Oct 13, 2013)

*If after years you only get 2 weeks off, quit. You can do better.*

I could pass as that blogger you're referring to in the OP.

For a good wage you've either got to be able to do something no one else can do (talent), do something no one else wants to do (logger), or do it in a place no one else is willing to do it (oil rig pig). The first option is the only one that seems to necessarily require dedication.

The latter two tend to suck. But delayed gratification ain't so bad when you work 8 months on, 10 months off.

One day, if you keep doing the things you love, you end up talented in those things. Maybe that's worth something?

Anyone wanna go bikepacking for a couple weeks?

Off Route


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## skylerd (Oct 13, 2013)

Also, I think there has been a blog post or two about this lifestyle on Gypsy By Trade.


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## hikernks (Aug 21, 2012)

I work at a nuclear power plant. Every 18 months we shut down to refit and refuel - it's called an outage. There are a lot of people who travel around to different plants and work those. Depending on what company you go with, a lot will let you pick and choose which plants you work at and when. Lots of travel and freedom, but when you're working, you're working. It's usually 6 days a week, 12+ hours a day. The good news is the outages are in the fall, winter, and spring, so that leaves summers open. I talked to a couple working our last one, and they said they pick a new place to spend summer every year. This year they were going just outside of Denali.

My schedule is a swing-shift, so I bounce back and forth between days and nights, plus we work 12 hour shifts too. The upside is every 6 weeks we have a scheduled 6 days off. I'm also in the National Guard, which sucks up one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer. What I do every year is combine both schedules, then look at the list of bikepacking races/rides and find out which ones I can go to and plan my vacation around that. Last year was the Tour Divide and a Fat-Bike race in SD. This year was the Highland Trail Race in Scotland plus the rest of the UK and France, and Rebecca's Private Idaho in Sun Valley. This is in addition to any other localish rides I can get in. I really don't have much time to train properly, but I do the best I can.


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## jsheldon (Jul 17, 2010)

I get a lot of adventure fulfillment through my work as a land surveyor. Most every week I'm in a new rural location either hiking, atving & sometimes on a boat. I'm never going to be financially wealthy or have major time off, but I do have a lot of evenings for MTB biking, kids & planning bikepacking trips.
Recently was able to complete a 3-day ride from my doorstep through wild country (connected thru work knowledge & GPS) to my favorite singletrack in the redwoods.
https://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/21/961144a3aa3596758f254d723dbece29.jpg[/IMG]


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## Mr Pink57 (Jul 30, 2009)

I work your standard 8 to 5 day job and go to school in the evenings also.

I am 31 years old and I started late in life, I never knew what I wanted to do in my 20s. So I just went in to the workforce and stayed there working what a lot would determine as dead end jobs.

Fast forward now? I am working a semi dead end job while I finish up school in web design and interactive media with extensive knowledge in graphic design. I feel this career will give me more freedom I desire to do what I want, not all the time but more time.

Biggest trip for me is tomorrow, my gf and I leave for Chile (her home country). I get two weeks off but am lucky enough the law firm I work at is closed a lot of the days over the end of the year so not much vacation is needed.

I envy her work lifestyle. She works for the University as a research scientist, and is allotted a lot of free time. While I will be gone for 10 days she will be gone for a whole month... paid. She is not paid a lot but lives just fine with no debt, great credit score, and a loving bf.

I do not care if I cannot bike pack much I just want to be able to travel more places on a whim vs. having to pick up the red phone and negotiate my life away.

Well that is my rant

A man with what-ifs...


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

jsheldon said:


> I get a lot of adventure fulfillment through my work as a land surveyor. Most every week I'm in a new rural location either hiking, atving & sometimes on a boat. I'm never going to be financially wealthy or have major time off, but I do have a lot of evenings for MTB biking, kids & planning bikepacking trips.


I've been thinking a lot about switching to this field. I honestly don't care if I only ever made pennies, whenever I worked alongside a surveyor, I was having too much fun to consider it work. I've done GPS/GIS data collection with a PLS in rain, snow, direct summer sun, and loved it all.

I knew some guys who were ex-surveyors and they always *****ed about they hated the heat of the summer and the cold of the winter, but these were fat guys who took paycuts to sit inside for the rest of their working careers, and I guess eventually it could come to that.

Just not sure how I'll go from GIS/Mapping to Surveying without a Civil Engineering degree.


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## willapajames (Dec 18, 2005)

PHeller said:


> Just not sure how I'll go from GIS/Mapping to Surveying without a Civil Engineering degree.


Definitely don't need a civil engineering degree to be a surveyor! Or maybe it depends on the type of surveying. I've done some surveying (I'm a geologist), and I never took any courses on it specifically. And the professional surveyors I've worked with rarely have much more than a basic certification. Then again, they probably don't make much either. But, you get to work outside in all kinds of weather (as do I).


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## iceboxsteve (Feb 22, 2012)

As a guy with a civil engineering degree (and I suppose you could call me an engineer) I've spent a lot of time with surveyors and have worked on many a crew. The guys you were in the field with may not necessarily be PLS's, they could just be the crew. I worked on a crew in college, all I needed to know was how to level up a gun hack a line. I loved it. The firm I'm with now has an in house PLS. Sometimes he goes out, sometimes not. As I've begun to chief more crews you need more knowledge, but again, all easy to get on the job.

Being a PLS is a different story. Its similar to what I have to do as an engineer. You need education/experience to sit for a LSIT (land surveyor in training) and then work 4 years under a PLS before you can sit for the PLS exam.

Its what you make of it from there. A PLS could sit in a cushy office all day and crunch numbers/draw pretty maps. Or they could be in the field. States license PLS's, so you could look there for info.


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## flying 1960 (Aug 12, 2008)

Amazing the range of lifestyles brought together here. I fall more into the safe security end mainly due to my job in health care. It's a 24/7 industry and only recently have I manoevered myself into a position where I have more time off. Coming from a dirt poor family that reeled from one crisis to the next, I watched my father work 100 hour weeks and go six years one stretch without a vacation at all. Wasn't going to happen to me.
So I worked my ass off and paid my way through undergraduate and graduate school and was fortunate enough to find the perfect field for my talents. 

Now in my 50's my son is grown, I have a fair amount of time off and my health is good. The extended trips start this year as I plan for the Idaho Hot Springs 500 this August.

I think everyone on this board is slightly envious of others for different reason but just might not want to admit it. Sure, I would like to have more time off and live closer to fantastic trails but I enjoy spending time with friends and family and would miss that if I moved. I am fortunate to live on six acres that sits next to 200 more that are empty. Nice to walk out my back door with the dogs and go for a hike that includes some mighty pretty little waterfalls. 

But one thing for sure, if you don't like what you are doing now you will like it less next week. Get out and find something that fits you better.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've been thinking about working less and riding/surfing/paddling more.

One blog I've been reading on the recommendation of a RTW motorcyclist is:

Mr. Money Mustache ? Early Retirement through Badassity

There is some good advice on there. It's turned my focus around a fair bit. I wish I had read this site 8yrs ago.

You don't have to follow the blog's plan down to a "T", but if you take the time to analyze what you are spending $$ and wargame some scenarios you might see ways to live well with less work.

Folks that like to be active outdoors are ahead of the game because we:

- are generally fit/healthy = wealth in a lot of ways
- have low cost forms of recreation as long as we don't chase the latest bling
- will never ask a stupid question like "What would I do with all that free time?"


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

Drunk Cyclist Drunkcyclist.com | Two Wheels. One Dark Lord. and Semi-Rad semi-rad.com - The relentless pursuit of the everyman's (and everywoman's) adventure. by Brendan Leonard have both talked at length over the years about balancing careers and adventures.

If you still have weekends, there is no reason you can't get out on mini-adventures Friday evening- Sunday evening.

I helps if you live near the outdoors, but it's definitely a trade off. All too often it's poverty with a view.

I've bounced around mountain towns my whole life. Ultimately I've been able to land my dream job in a great outdoors oriented place that allows for lots of freetime, but it took years of schooling and was a gamble.

My old Durango friends and I joke about how we can count the number of us that made it into middle class and still kept the outdoor lifestyle going on one hand. Most either live into their 40's scraping by with roommates piled into a sh!thole living paycheck to paycheck and off bro-deals or go back to the suburbs and resign to spending most their time reminiscing about being a ski bum for a year or two. The former sounds much more pleasant.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

vikb said:


> I've been thinking about working less and riding/surfing/paddling more.
> 
> One blog I've been reading on the recommendation of a RTW motorcyclist is:
> 
> ...


Interesting. The only things that I'm not doing according to his plan is I over pay for food slightly and don't invest, I could also find cheaper housing. It'd be interesting to see how his investment strategy holds up 4 years later.


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## emerlist-davjack (Jun 20, 2011)

PHeller, might I inquire as to what you do for work currently? I am a college student who is frighteningly close to completing a degree in GIScience, and have fears of ending up in a thankless corporate work environment.


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

I quite like my job, I flip project to project between Construction manager, Operations Engineer and Vendor package manager. I get well paid, travel all over the world and plenty of time off between projects and can grab a week here and there during the project. Yeah it can be stressful at times and occasionally I end up on construction boats or oil production facilities for a couple of weeks or months at a time but on every day there is a different and challenging SNAFU or FUBAR to sort out and I am constantly learning. After the last job the current outfit I am with offered me a corporate ops director position and were incredulous when I turned it down to take an ops engineer position on the next project. I don't want to get into the whole Corporate game full stop.

I am 45, been contracting since I left Uni and should have enough saved / invested to retire in 3 or 4 years, however I will probably carry on into my 50's to get the kids through school and I have had plenty of time off. It wasn't the job which curtailed my long duration bike tours and mountaineering trips it was having a family. That was a personal choice and I am glad I did it. I got a 4 week bikepacking trip in in 2014 along with a couple of 7 dayers and 5 weekend + trips. Would I like to do another 6 month trip, sure would but I am happy to wait a few more years. The next project I am on is back in Borneo a $50 1hr flight into the rain forest highlands for a weekend or a few days of fun, just gotta watch out for the snakes and crocs!!!

I got into the offshore contracting game as a welding inspector to fund adventure trips in the late eighties and early nineties, this was way beneath my status as a BEng Mechanical and my mother was horrified but I had no plan and no clue nor interest in a career and still don't. 23 years on I am still enjoying the job, no regrets. I really wouldn't worry about getting into the corp game straight after college - take a s**ty job in the ski towns go and bum about for a while smoke some weed and enjoy yourself. A mate of mine ditched engineering all together and became a chiropractor eventually still lives and works in a mountain town another worked bar jobs and qualified as a mountain guide, I still go and do the occasional mountain route with both when I am back in the UK/Europe. There are loads of options for you don't let clueless careers advisors push you into something without thinking about it.


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## Marna_Kazmaier (Sep 11, 2014)

My husband and I have been self employed for many years. This means we can play/go to events when we want (for the most part) and work hours up in the late nights, early mornings and weekends or such.

I will be 58 this coming March. He is 10 years younger than I.

We have been dirt poor and still enjoyed life. We have many interests, probably too many <smiles> but we both enjoy life and getting out and doing. We are not Sports Watchers on TV. We would rather be out doing.

Life happens fast. You have to get out and enjoy it while you can. Tooooo many people, in the old and frail years, wished they would have.....

Or worse. People that can not, that is, ride a bicycle or hike or backpack or camp, because they have let themselves sit on a couch for too many years, watch in envy those that can, and worse are the ones that criticize when in truth they really are jealous of the ones that have been/do/can. (I have been guilty of inactivity myself!)

Get out and ride, even short rides, when you can....or hike or backpack or ski or skate or anything that is fun and keeps your body moving and your mind active!</smiles>

Yesterday we went Ice Skating, the streets are too icy to take a change riding our bicycles right now.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Marna_Kazmaier said:


> We have been dirt poor and still enjoyed life.


Hear, hear. Marna, it sounds to me like you are rich in the right way.

This has become one of the best (if not _the_ best) threads on MTBR. I appreciate the wisdom and discovery you guys are laying down.

:thumbsup:


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

emerlist-davjack said:


> PHeller, might I inquire as to what you do for work currently? I am a college student who is frighteningly close to completing a degree in GIScience, and have fears of ending up in a thankless corporate work environment.


I work for a natural gas utility company doing facilities mapping and analysis. Every day there are multitudes of questions asked from both inside and outside our company on how we can provide energy to 660,000 customers in a better, safer, more efficient, profitable and environmentally friendly way. Some of the answers require really cool spatial analysis, some just require understanding how databases work. It is "fun" because it is challenging, but its not "fun" like hiking through the wood trying to find a property corner or doing a conservation survey.

Most GIS jobs are technology jobs. I'm starting to see myself more as a mix between a data analyst and a drafter. I make pretty maps, and use existing data to answer questions that other people can't. Unfortunately, most technology jobs require being in the office (or at home) in front of the computer, most of the time.

I think if were to do it over I would've positions myself more for geomatics and surveying, with a minor in electrical systems or facilities maintenance. I like solving problems, but I'd prefer to them in a variety of places besides my boring cube.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

One thing that has been a challenge for my wife and I has been deciding on what we want out of our life. We really are analyzing every possible scenario within our current careers to determine if we can both have good stable jobs while still getting 4-5 weeks off per year while we're still young. 

Her career (Immigrant Social Work), allows lots of time off, so we're good there, but my career in GIS/Mapping is still stuck in the 2-weeks vacation for the first five years with limited flexibility rut. While her career offers good flexibility, she can really only find work in highly populated areas, Florida, California, Mid-Atlantic. I can find jobs in a variety of places, but despite being technology related, hiring managers still prefer to hire local, and that old school approach still translates into limitations on flexibility/time off. 

Ultimately we may need to approach our careers with "transience" in mind - work 3-5 years in each location, take short adventures around that region, and move on when the right opportunity exists.

One thing has become apparent in that last 2 moves we've made is that we need to reevaluate what "stuff" is necessary for us to be happy. We've adopted a strategy of putting "stuff" into boxes and seeing how often we use it. After a year without being used said box is donated.

Hopefully in the future this will allow us to more quickly relocate to chase new adventures and opportunities.


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## emerlist-davjack (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I've been seriously thinking about grad school, just to give me more employment options... Hey, what's a few more k's of student debt!

Best of luck in your search for flexibility!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

vikb said:


> I've been thinking about working less and riding/surfing/paddling more.
> 
> One blog I've been reading on the recommendation of a RTW motorcyclist is:
> 
> ...


I have to agree that this is one of, if not THE best, thread on MTBR. It's really interesting to read how others live their lives and the varying goals and ideals.

I discovered that Mr. Money Mustache blog a few weeks ago and could not stop reading it! I only wish I found it years ago! Currently working on reducing consumerism, figuring out what truly makes us happy(and ditching/not buying everything else), and aggressively saving for early retirement!


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

emerlist-davjack said:


> Thanks for the reply. I've been seriously thinking about grad school, just to give me more employment options... Hey, what's a few more k's of student debt!
> 
> Best of luck in your search for flexibility!


Do you work in the field now? If not, I'd highly suggest not pursuing grad school unless you're planning on going for planning or computer science. The GIS field isn't about the amount of education, its the amount of software, programming languages, and years of experience utilizing those skills thats very important. A GIS certificate is certainly valuable, but those don't require grad school to obtain.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

One aspect of Mr. Money Mustache's common core is that you should buy a modest well priced home and stay in it. This allow you to reduce your housing costs while building equity, maybe renting this home while on adventures, and having a home base to retreat when you need income.

My wife and I would love to own a home, and we'd have no problems living in something smaller, but our problems is deciding on a place to buy that home. 

We still have aging parents, ailing grandparents, new nieces/nephews and a growing group of friends on the east coast, but we long for the dry mountains of the desert southwest. Flying back and forth costs money, but so has renting for the last 6 years. 

If we had lots of vacation, we'd spend more time out there, but I'm not sure it'd satisfy us. Maybe we can convince our parents to move with us? haha


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## emerlist-davjack (Jun 20, 2011)

PHeller said:


> Do you work in the field now? If not, I'd highly suggest not pursuing grad school unless you're planning on going for planning or computer science. The GIS field isn't about the amount of education, its the amount of software, programming languages, and years of experience utilizing those skills thats very important. A GIS certificate is certainly valuable, but those don't require grad school to obtain.


Interesting. I am 2 semesters away from finishing my undergrad. I have a bit of experience with CS, and I have TA-ed for a lower level CS class. Maybe I should take a few more CS/Python classes...


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

emerlist-davjack said:


> Interesting. I am 2 semesters away from finishing my undergrad. I have a bit of experience with CS, and I have TA-ed for a lower level CS class. Maybe I should take a few more CS/Python classes...


Yes, this. All day long. Stay an extra semester if you have to in order to learn Python. It will make you considerably more marketable. In fact, find a GIS internship while taking those additional courses.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

My aunt who was 62 just died of a heart attack. She had just retired from her job as a professor in july. she passed away on dec 30th. 

Why am I saying this, good question, but it makes you wonder. Balancing life and work is a very interesting subject. some people are very good at it, some are not. My aunt had a good life and liked to play. She and her husband where ready for a good retirement. I am just rambling trying to make sense of the work\play ratio. IF we work our asses off(I do) so we have time and money to play later we might not be able to. If we play today and put off until tomorrow and live till 90, retirement will suck big time. Anyone have a crystal ball for sale?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

tim208 said:


> If we play today and put off until tomorrow and live till 90, retirement will suck big time. Anyone have a crystal ball for sale?


That is the catch 22.

Assuming you are prepared to be frugal and hit a high savings ratio while minimizing the debt you incur you can reach financial independence when you are younger and still have many years of healthy/active living ahead [unless you are really unlucky].

The Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

If I had wrapped my head around this when I was 25 I would have be retired by 40.


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## ECR (Sep 25, 2013)

With the changing demographics, wall street is going to be relentless in robbing the elderly of their life savings.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

ECR said:


> With the changing demographics, wall street is going to be relentless in robbing the elderly of their life savings.


?????????????????


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I believe he means that our retiring baby boomers are the only ones with disposable income anymore, the only ones that actually have retirement accounts, and for the most part many of them seem to be careless with them (as they should be, they are at the end of their lives).

By comparison, most young people who are retiring early know how to avoid the trap. They are putting their money places that are easier to get at with far less management. 

I could get into a rant, but I'll refrain.

Basically, nothing in our social, political, or business environment seems to give incentives for those who work hard till they are comfortable and give up their seat to the next in line. We are nation built on wanting more. Get that great job, buy a big house. Get a better job, buy an even bigger house. Promotion? Nicer car. Another great job? Lots of kids, bigger house. 

I don't have any issues with this desire, but I don't feel our whole economy, our corporate culture, our political system should be based around the idea that we all want the same thing. When I mention to people that I'd be perfectly happy making $35,000 and having 1 month of paid vacation every year, they laugh and tell me I should be a teacher. I don't think teachers should be the only folks granted that luxury. There are lots of highly productive economies that allow for large amount of paid vacation.


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## ltspd1 (Nov 25, 2007)

I made a conscience decision to retire relatively early, because in an 18 month time span I had seven friends, all around my age, up and die on me. Several were very healthy, fit and active cyclists who had big plans for all the adventures they were going to have when they retired. This made a profound impact on me, so two years ago I bailed from my career. Fortunately I've always lived fairly modestly, unconcerned about what my peers thought of my small (but paid for) home, my 12 year old car, etc. I took a financial hit, but I wouldn't trade the past two years for any amount of money. I ride almost every day, and take numerous MTB road trips throughout the year. I'm very contented with my life.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

ltspd1,

I think you made a great decision. Not that you need my validation, but at least you have my envy.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

ltspd1 said:


> I made a conscience decision to retire relatively early, because in an 18 month time span I had seven friends, all around my age, up and die on me. Several were very healthy, fit and active cyclists who had big plans for all the adventures they were going to have when they retired. This made a profound impact on me, so two years ago I bailed from my career.  Fortunately I've always lived fairly modestly, unconcerned about what my peers thought of my small (but paid for) home, my 12 year old car, etc. I took a financial hit, but I wouldn't trade the past two years for any amount of money. I ride almost every day, and take numerous MTB road trips throughout the year. I'm very contented with my life.


+1, that's the secret. Me too, Cheers! :thumbsup:


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## ltspd1 (Nov 25, 2007)

PHeller said:


> ltspd1,
> 
> I think you made a great decision. Not that you need my validation, but at least you have my envy.


Thanks, PHeller...first semi-ballsy thing I've done in an otherwise conventional life, and it's worked out well.


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## Gregon2wheels (Jan 17, 2013)

Nice topic and I like reading the responses.

A buddy left engineering for teaching high school so he could have summers off to climb. Since then he has become recognized state wide for his advancement of high school math education. He discovered a passion for teaching when he originally just wanted to do it for the vacation time.

Someone already mentioned university work. Plenty of holidays there.

Government work - lots of holidays + good benefits. They still hire liberal arts majors.

Emergency service - 24 hour shifts with 4 or 5 day blocks off (48 on 96 off, 2 x 24s per week, etc.), Timed right, 1 day of vacation will get you 8 days in a row off.

Hospital nursing - 15 x 12 hour shifts monthly so you get 3 and 4 day blocks off. Take a little extra vacation time on either side and 2 days of vacation can net 6 days off.

Travel nursing - 25% - 50% higher salary than regular nursing with living expenses covered. Work lasts weeks to months. Pick and choose where you work. A friend did travel nursing in parts of the country where he wanted to ride his motorcycle. Experience required and a critical care certification is a bonus.

At my old job, the company let me save up 2 years of vacation and, with lots of advanced notice, my boss let me take it all at one time. Combined with weekends and holidays, I took almost 25 days off for a cross country motorcycle ride + a trip to the Caribbean. I actually _cut my vacation short_ and came back to work early (again with my boss's permission) because I felt like I had had enough time off. I spent many hours getting work done early and bringing coworkers and subordinates up to speed so work was ready to be done. I also planned my time off away from any major deadlines.

Enjoy what you can. Not all bikepacking has to be epic. A couple of friends and I used to set aside a weekend every couple of months to do long motorcycle rides. Leave Friday work a little early (say 3 pm and not 5 pm), get to where you want to go Friday night. Ride ALLLLLL day Saturday. Ride all Sunday morning and early afternoon, then head home at 3 pm Sunday.

This year is looking very different for me. I have already had to cancel several planned long weekend (3 - 4 day) bike trips (riding trails or events that were 4 - 8 hours drive away from home) because my wife has to do work trips around the same time. I'll be spending the extra time near home, but I'll still be riding with friends and doing things with my son. Still a good time. That's the positive attitude needed when you really can't get away.

Finally, my cousin's wife worked at a job with VERY strict attendance policies (exact arrival/departure time, specific # of minutes for lunch, etc.). She found another company doing the same job with much more flexible start/finish times. Not exactly your situation, but proof that not all companies are the same even if you are doing the same job.

EDITED TO ADD: While I see a lot of posts here saying "jump in and take the risk", don't underestimate the benefit of long term planning. The OP gets more vacation after 5 years. We don't always need immediate gratification whether it is the 60" TV bought on credit or quitting a job to take a dream vacation. Most of us wouldn't be able to do the Cheryl Strayed PCT hike or similar right away anyway. Build up your equity while you build up your body.


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## emerlist-davjack (Jun 20, 2011)

PHeller said:


> Yes, this. All day long. Stay an extra semester if you have to in order to learn Python. It will make you considerably more marketable. In fact, find a GIS internship while taking those additional courses.


Thanks for the advice, PHeller. I've been convinced to bolster my Python abilities. It's really nice to hear from someone in the field!


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

One challenge for me has been weighing career field experience or development with free time and satisfaction outside of work. 

For example, some people will put up with a 1.5 hour commute in order to make top dollar, while others are perfectly content to walk to work for minimum wage. 

I'm beginning to realize that I was much more tolerant of my low paying government job that I bike commuted to more so than my current job which is a 45 minute highway commute. At the old job I was poor, but loving life, the new job has me paying down debt very quickly and being able to buy a new bike is certain good fun, but I feel like all I do is work, even when I'm not technically working.

The problem is, what I do isnt available everywhere. My wife has a good opportunity in Florida and I'd love to continue my career, but finding a similar job may be difficult, where as finding a similar PAYING job might be rather easy.

And so I wonder, if your interested in free time and vacation, is it better to find a job that provides that more so than it is utilizing your education or career skils?


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

ah, the time value of money. the worlds oldest and newest form of making money.
also rember the rule of 72. interest rate times years =money doubling
at 10% interest your money doubles in 7.2years.


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