# 2020 Vitus Kids 24+



## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

There hasn't been a whole lot posted about the 2020 Vitus Kids 24+, so I figured it would be worth sharing some of our experience based on our short time having it. 

With the global bike shortage pickings were pretty slim for my son's 9th birthday. We wanted to order the more expensive and better equipped Vitus Nucleus 24, but had no luck catching it in stock. When the Kids 24+ came back in to stock at CRC just before his birthday we settled on it instead with a plan for upgrades in the future. We placed our order on August 7th and received the bike here in California ten days later on August 17th. Really not bad considering the impact of the pandemic. 

Upon receipt and inspection, everything looked to be in good shape. Assembly and included components and accessories (two sets of pedals, multi-tool, pedal wrench, touch up paint, etc.) were very much in line with Gordon Allen's youtube video for the Vitus Nucleus 24. The bike was packaged well with lots of protective foam wrap. Some quick adjustment of the bars, checking cable/hose mounts, mounting the front wheel and pedals, running a torque check on all of the bolts and a test run through the gears and the bike was ready to ride. 

The first ride impression for my little guy (4'-3" tall) was that the bike felt "big" and it was more awkward for him to get rolling on it compared to his 20" Orbea MX 20 Team. A few weeks in and he still isn't quite as comfortable starting out with the higher standover, but feels more at home now on the 24" bike than his older 20" bike. 

Around the neighborhood the bike has been great with no issues making themselves apparent. With a lack of bottle mounts, we ordered a Fidlock "uni-base" to strap to the down tube. This has worked out well to mount the 450ml Fidlock bottle he previously used on his 20" bike. The other thing my son said he noticed was some occasional fluid weeping where the brake hoses connect to the levers. I'll be looking into this shortly. 

Out on the trail, there are other short comings that weren't apparent when cruising around the neighborhood. The old 20" bike is set up as 1x8 with a 32T up front and 11-34T out back. This translates to a gear inch range from 19 - 59. By comparison the 24+ is a 1x7 with a 32T up front and 12-32T out back. This translates to a gear inch range of 25 - 67. My boy noticed the difference between 19 and 25 gear inches IMMEDIATELY on our fire road climb. Even with coaxing and encouragement there were earlier complaints and more hike-a-bikes than we have been accustomed to seeing. This has really opened my eyes to the fact that a 24" bike should really be equipped with at least an 11-42T cassette (19 - 73 gear inches in our case) if you actually plan to use it as a mountain bike. We also had some chain noise in the lowest gear, so there is probably some derailleur (L limit screw) adjustment necessary.

For riding around the neighborhood, we've kept the tubes in the 2.6" tires around 20 PSI. When we are out on the trail we drop to 13 PSI front, 15 PSI rear and will likely continue to experiment with pressure as he gets more rides under his belt. 

Future plans and upgrades...

As I mentioned at the top, we settled with the 24+ knowing that there are upgrades likely to take place. First and foremost, my son has been begging for a suspension fork up front for several years. This just wasn't practical on his rim brake equipped 20" bike, but we plan to do this on his 24. The bike uses a 1-1/8" straight steerer and 9x100 QR front axle. We were looking at the usual suspects in the Suntour XCR 24 Air and RST F1RST Air 24. The Suntour is cheaper, heavier, has a lower quality damper, but appears to be readily available. The RST is a bit more expensive, lighter, has a better damper, but is pretty much impossible to find right now. (Thanks COVID) Lastly, I just started looking at the Manitou Markhor 26 set to 80mm of travel. The Manitou is a little more expensive and slightly heavier than the RST (lighter than Suntour), has a good damper (with option to upgrade) and is currently available to buy. The Manitou will slack out the geometry a bit more as the sagged A2C is 16mm longer than the stock fork. One of these options will probably show up on Christmas morning. 

A change that will be required when adding the fork is a swapping the 2.6" tires to something a bit smaller due to tire clearance limitations. I'd love to jump into a set of 2.3" - 2.4" Maxis Minions, but that might be farther down the line. For now, we picked up a set of barely used Rocket Ron 24x2.1s with tubes for only $20. The bike will be set up tubeless, if possible. 

The last change we will make for sure is the drivetrain. We will probably leave the cranks and chainring alone, but swap out the cassette, derailleur and shifter. Initially, I was planning on the Microshift Advent 11-42T 9 speed with aluminum large cog, clutch derailleur, and pro shifter Total cost is around $120. However, the just released Microshift Acolyte 8 11-42T 8 speed setup with a clutch comes in just under $90, so that may also be a consideration. 

When I have a chance, I will get some photos and weigh the bike to post up here. In the mean time, if you have any questions or comments feel free to post them up.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Not a photo, but a short video clip from the first spin around the park across the street. Looks like a clutch derailleur will certainly help.


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## vtskibum (Jun 7, 2006)

Just received the 2021 model (red) from CRC, ~5 days shipped to East Coast US. My son as well as many cycling friends love the gumwall tires. Weight is 22lbs w/ pedals out of the box. So far few rides around the neighborhood and one familiar trail ride for my 9y/o about 4' 5". He's a bit timid so purposefully bought the plus tires for the confidence they're supposed to provide. So far so good, he rode a few things he never had before, including trying to ride up some curbs. I think I will need to play with tire pressure a bit to get it dialed in for him. Gearing is better than his 20" Giant XTC Jr and actually weighs less than the plus bike. Hydro brakes are great for him, even caught him pulling some skids on purpose and was able to keep traction on a relatively steep downhill that he'd previously had trouble on w/ v-brakes on his 20".

So far pleased with the purchase and have some 2.2 Crown Jewel's in case the plus tires become more trouble than they're worth, but thinking that will wait until dry summer trails next year. Also haven't tried, but think a 26" wheel would fit, just don't have any to test anymore.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

FYI, if you want something lighter but don't need a super aggressive tread, CST Fringe is supposed to be ~620g for 24x2.8. We have the 20" version and use it as a rear tire with the 20x2.8" Vee Crown Gem up front.

Thinking about going the same route with the 24" that we have on the way.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

vtskibum said:


> Just received the 2021 model (red) from CRC, ~5 days shipped to East Coast US. My son as well as many cycling friends love the gumwall tires. Weight is 22lbs w/ pedals out of the box. So far few rides around the neighborhood and one familiar trail ride for my 9y/o about 4' 5". He's a bit timid so purposefully bought the plus tires for the confidence they're supposed to provide. So far so good, he rode a few things he never had before, including trying to ride up some curbs. I think I will need to play with tire pressure a bit to get it dialed in for him. Gearing is better than his 20" Giant XTC Jr and actually weighs less than the plus bike. Hydro brakes are great for him, even caught him pulling some skids on purpose and was able to keep traction on a relatively steep downhill that he'd previously had trouble on w/ v-brakes on his 20".
> 
> So far pleased with the purchase and have some 2.2 Crown Jewel's in case the plus tires become more trouble than they're worth, but thinking that will wait until dry summer trails next year. Also haven't tried, but think a 26" wheel would fit, just don't have any to test anymore.


Nice to see some others picking up the 24+ that we can share experience and feedback with.

On the 26" wheels, I have been meaning to try this. Next time we have my son's bike at my in-law's place and I'm there we will give it a shot. They have a couple of older Gary Fishers running 26" wheels with 2.1" tires. It would just be for fitment without a test ride as those old bikes are equipped with rim brakes.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

TimTucker said:


> FYI, if you want something lighter but don't need a super aggressive tread, CST Fringe is supposed to be ~620g for 24x2.8. We have the 20" version and use it as a rear tire with the 20x2.8" Vee Crown Gem up front.
> 
> Thinking about going the same route with the 24" that we have on the way.


That seems like A LOT of tire. Even the 2.6" tires on the 24+ seem like overkill, I'm not sure I would ever consider going to an even larger volume tire. Then again, my son is coming off of a rigid 20" bike running 2.1" tires.

If we didn't already have a set of 2.1" Rocket Rons ready for my son's bike, we would probably be looking at the 2.3"-2.4" range when we swap over to a suspension fork.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

rton20s said:


> That seems like A LOT of tire. Even the 2.6" tires on the 24+ seem like overkill, I'm not sure I would ever consider going to an even larger volume tire. Then again, my son is coming off of a rigid 20" bike running 2.1" tires.
> 
> If we didn't already have a set of 2.1" Rocket Rons ready for my son's bike, we would probably be looking at the 2.3"-2.4" range when we swap over to a suspension fork.


It's been a REALLY dry summer around here and our trails tend to get sandy when dry, so a wider tire does help. I picked up a Stache this spring and put 29x3.25" tires and it's made a big difference for me.

From experience with the 20" version, the CST isn't a true 2.8 (the Crown Gems run true to size) -- maybe more like 2.55".

We'd probably be OK with the lighter 24x2.6 variant of the Crown Gem, but it's out of stock from Vee and everywhere else that I'd looked. All that's in stock is the heavier skinwall 2.6" version for OEMs -- those weight just as much as the 120tpi 2.8".


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Also consider that larger volume = larger diameter. 24+ can be almost as big as 26" (24x2.6" is around 25.5") -- I see the additional rollover being just as important as the width.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

We had my son's 24+ at my in-laws' place over the weekend, so I took the opportunity to throw an old 26" wheel with a 2.1" tire on the back. I didn't bother with the front as it has WAY more clearance. The good news is the 26" wheel went on with zero issues.

Based on what I saw, I would guess you could fit up to a 26" x ~2.3" tire in the rear depending on lug size and location. (Maybe a 2.4" if it was a small lug cross country tire.) This would also depend on the trails you are riding. If you ride where you have lots of sticky mud that tends to hang on to the tread, you'll likely need to stick with a skinnier tire to maintain clearance around the frame when things get sloppy.

I've provided a couple of pics below. The first is the tire at the seat stays, the second is the tire at the chain stays and the last is a profile shot. You can see the OE 24x2.6 tire in the front compared to the 26x2.1 in the rear.


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## vtskibum (Jun 7, 2006)

Great thanks rton! Wanted to confirm this for the future myself, even have an old 26" red SID that may end up on it eventually as well.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

vtskibum said:


> Great thanks rton! Wanted to confirm this for the future myself, even have an old 26" red SID that may end up on it eventually as well.


No problem. I had been going back and forth between adding a 24" or a 26" suspension fork. Knowing that the 26" wheels will fit pretty much seals the deal. Even if we never swap to 26" wheels, it will be good to have the option. There will probably be a Manitou Markhor 26 under the tree come Christmas time.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

An order for a Manitou Markhor 26 has officially been placed. I originally ordered one yesterday from Universal Cycles for $250 as they seemed to be the only place in the world with stock. Just North of $270 to my door. Then this morning I get email notification for them being in stock from other vendors. Worldwide Cyclery and Treefort both had it in stock for $225, and I had an additional 10% off with WWC. Total to my door would have been <$220. 

I tried to get Universal to credit the difference, but their vendor agreement wouldn't allow it. So, the order was cancelled and when I went back to WWC they were out of stock again! So was Treefort. All in a matter of minutes. I felt completely defeated, as I was certain I had just blown my chance at a shiny new fork under the tree for the kiddo. 

Fortunately, Amazon had the fork in stock through Bikewagon at the lower $225 price. In the cart and checked out as fast as I could click the mouse. Shipping will probably be slower than Universal or WWC, but at least it should make it with time to spare. I will report back after Christmas once we have the fork on the bike and have a chance to do some test rides. I plan to convert the fork from 100mm to 80mm of travel prior to installation.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

The fork was a big hit on Christmas morning and the kiddo is really excited for the upgrade to his bike. I've decided to let the pros at my local shop handle the install and will be dropping off the bike and fork tomorrow. For now, we're going to keep the fork at 100mm of travel and adjust down to 80mm if necessary. The shop has a pretty deep backlog of work right now, so it may be up to a week until we get it back. 

In the mean time, we did pull the front wheel off of the Vitus to see how much tire clearance there was between the Vee Crown Gem 24x2.6 and the Manitou Markhor 26. To my surprise the clearance looks sufficient for the trail riding we typically do. I didn't get a photo, but will once the fork is installed. It might be a little tight for kiddos riding through deep, sticky mud. Living in central California, this has never been an issue for us.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

We got the bike back with the Manitou Markhor 26" fork installed yesterday. It was dark, so the kiddo hasn't had a chance to take it for a spin yet. Everything looks good and feels solid. I'll give a "ride report" once we've had an opportunity to get it out on some real trails. Until then, here are some photos, including tire clearance with the big 24x2.6 Crown Gems. At the tightest clearance, I can still fit my index finger between the tire and the fork.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

The Manitou Markhor 26 fork has turned out to be an excellent investment for our kiddo. The addition has provided more instant confidence than any other single change I have made on a bike for him. We live across the street from a small city park and he now seeks out the small (~6"-18" tall) boulders to ride up and over.

We also went on a family trip to the coast which included a ride through Johnson Ranch Loop near San Luis Obispo. The kiddo did great for the entire ride. He kept pace with me the whole time and I only pulled out the TowWhee for the last climbing segment. (Side note: the TowWhee on a single track trail with a short, 42 lbs., 5 year old kiddo still mastering his riding skills on a 16" bike still isn't a great idea.)

A wide range drivetrain is likely the next upgrade for the Vitus. The gearing isn't bad, it just doesn't quite cut it for some of the longer/steeper climbs we encounter. So, we'll likely be ordering a new Acolyte shifter, derailleur and cassette soon. In the mean time, we'll be planning some more rides soon to take advantage of this new found confidence.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

I will be cross posting this into the Microshift Acolyte thread as well.

I attempted to install the Acolyte drive train on my son's Vitus Kids 24+ only to discover that the 12-46T Acolyte cassette will not fit on the freehub body. I need to take an actual measurement, but it appears that the freehub on the Vitus is *7 speed only* and about 30mm long. This is despite being labeled as "KT 28 hole, Loose Ball, 10mm Axle, 7/*8 speed* freehub, QR" in the specs. An 8 speed cassette will not fit, as they typically need a 34.9mm, which is what Microshift calls for. The main cassette body slides onto the freehub without issue, but the spline body does not extend far enough to engage the 12T cog and the lock ring.

I have an email in to Chain Reaction to see if they can come up with a solution, and the tech asked if I had removed the spacer behind the stock cassette. There was no spacer, and this would indicate that even CRC thought this was an 8 speed hub with a spacer for the 7 speed cassette. They have reached out to their Vitus design rep to see if they can come up with a solution. At this point, I am pretty upset as one of the main reasons I selected the Vitus (and have recommended it to others) was the ability to upgrade the rear cassette to a wide range 8/9/10 speed on the HG freehub.

I plan on pulling the wheel back off and taking some measurements to confirm soon. Possibly tonight. Vitus isn't the only brand equipping kids 20-24" bikes with 7 speed cassettes. I intentionally avoided freewheel equipped bikes because of my planned upgrade to wider gearing. If you are looking at, or own a bike with a 7 speed cassette, I would recommend confirming the length of the freehub body before ordering ANY 8 speed cassettes to upgrade. The length of the body should be 34.9mm (1-3/8") or longer in order to accommodate an 8/9/10 speed cassette.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Even though this thread is mostly me just talking to myself, I figured it is still worth updating. This is my latest response from CRC. It seems like they are essentially washing their hands of the issue...

_Thank you for your patience.

I have heard back from the design rep, They are unfamiliar with the Acolyte cassette I'm afraid but concurred with my thesis that it was designed to be used on a standard sized HG freehub.

There are hundreds of brands of cassettes out there, when building these bikes they tested a handful of the most common SRAM and Shimano variants and were satisfied with their fit, such as the shimano Acera 8 speed or the SRAM PG 830 or PG 850.

I hope this helps. If you have any further questions please email again._

Fortunately, I have one of the cassettes they mentioned in their email (SRAM PG 830) and will be doing some test fitment to see if ANY 8 speed cassette will work on this "7/8 speed" freehub body. I plan to test 8 speed cassettes from Shimano (11-34T), SRAM (11-32T) and Sunrace (11-40T). If the Sunrace fits, I will try it with the Acolyte shifter and derailleur. If it doesn't it fit, I'll reach back out to CRC to see if there is anything else they can do to resolve the issue.

I also plan to remove the freehub body and see if I could order an 8/9/10 speed replacement. Though, I know that would likely mean having to re-dish the wheel. That is something I don't really want to have to do.

If CRC leaves me high and dry, it might be time to get really stupid and Frankenstein a couple cassettes together to build a 12-46T 7 speed cassette with 8 speed spacing. I've worked it out "on paper," and know the second cassette I would need to purchase to build the custom cassette. I really hope it doesn't come to this, but I'm always up for ridiculous "you shouldn't do that" challenges.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

rton20s said:


> Even though this thread is mostly me just talking to myself, I figured it is still worth updating. This is my latest response from CRC. It seems like they are essentially washing their hands of the issue...
> 
> _Thank you for your patience.
> 
> ...


I'm listening intently don't worry!

They nearly nailed the spec bar the cassette and lack of water bottle mounts.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

hambocairns said:


> I'm listening intently don't worry!
> 
> They nearly nailed the spec bar the cassette and lack of water bottle mounts.


I completely agree. Those two simple changes would add minimal cost and would make an already great bike that much better. Some additional cable routing mounts would have been nice as well. I haven't posted about it in this thread, but I did add a dropper post to the bike and had to just zip tie the cable to the rear derailleur cable. I'll get some photos and post up about the dropper post install, as well.

I didn't have time to pull the wheel again last night to test fit some of the 8 speed cassettes I have on hand, so I'll try to get to it tonight.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

That would be fantastic!

I'm hoping (subject to availability) to convert this to tubeless too.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

I have now test fit and measured multiple 8 speed cassettes on the Vitus' stock KT rear hub. They all measure approximately 35mm wide and NONE of them work on the "7/8 speed freehub." That includes the SRAM PG 830 cassette that they claimed to have test fit. This has led me to the conclusion that this is a 7 speed only hub and will not accommodate an 8 speed cassette. This is what I suspected when I originally tried to install the Microshift Acolyte 8 speed cassette.

I provided this information to Chain Reaction Cycles last Thursday evening by email and have not heard anything back yet. I do plan to give them at least a week to respond, before I reach back out. I'm really hoping they don't let me down and are able to come up with a fair solution. My only expectation is to get what they claimed the bike was at the time we made the purchase.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Let us know what happens! It's seems like a cost cutting exercise but is it really that much more to spec a hub that accepts more gears?


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

hambocairns said:


> Let us know what happens! It's seems like a cost cutting exercise but is it really that much more to spec a hub that accepts more gears?


I plan on it. Not long after I posted that, I did hear back that CRC wants to know the length of the hub body. The bike is at my in-laws' place right now, so I need to go by there to check. I'll take some photos indicating measurements with my micrometer to send to them. Chain Reaction is unable to check themselves, as they do not have a 2020 model Kids 24+ on hand to measure.

Per the CRC email, they acknowledge that if the length of the hub body is around 31mm, it is a 7 speed max freehub. Around 34/35mm would be a standard HG hub body and able to accommodate 8/9 speeds.


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## vtskibum (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks for the info rton20s, haven't pulled my sons apart yet as it's still totally stock, but was considering a part bin swap of old 9 spd drivetrain I have. Sounds like i'll be hold off on that


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Here are the photos I shared with CRC. I'm still waiting to hear back. Included are the freehub body measurement, width of the Microshift Acolyte 8 speed cassette, SRAM PG 830 8 speed cassette and Shimano HG200 7 speed cassette, and finally the SRAM PG 830 cassette on the hub without the 8th gear and lock ring to demonstrate the failure to fit.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

I just wanted to provide a quick update. CRC has agreed to reimburse us for the purchase of a new 8 speed compatible hub and rebuilding the rear wheel. Attempting to source a hub from my local shops and even the usual online vendors proved to be nearly impossible. Unless I (aka CRC) was willing to spend close to $200 or more on a new hub. Instead, I sourced a set of Arc MT-007 hubs through Aliexpress. From all the measurements I was able to take, I am hoping we can reuse the original spokes on the wheel build.

I pulled the wheels from the bike last night and stripped off the tires, tubes, rotors and cassette. Today I will drop the wheels and new hubs off at my local bike shop for the wheel build. I'll report back with photos once the wheels are done. I might also take this opportunity to see if I'm able to set the wheels up tubeless. Though, the wire bead Crown Gems are not "tubeless ready," it is a good opportunity to install tubeless tape on the rim since the rim strip will need to be removed anyway.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

I just wanted to provide an update on our Vitus Kids 24+. As shared previously, I ordered a set of Arc MT007 hubs to replace the OE KT hubs that would only accommodate a 7 speed cassette. I had one of our local shops build up the wheels with the new hubs. They said the new hubs were within 1mm of the old hubs and reuse of the original spokes, nipples and rims was a breeze. CRC was good about the reimbursement and had our account credited very quickly for the parts and labor to change out the rear hub once they had receipts.

The shop warned multiple times that even though we taped the rim for tubeless, they wouldn't guarantee it to work. I didn't expect the OE Crown Gems to work, but wanted to give it a quick test anyway. It didn't even come close to setting the bead. The hook on the Weinmann rims is very subtle and the Crown Gems are fairly loose on the rim. That makes getting the tire on the rim by hand very easy, but it also means you aren't going to be able to set the bead for tubeless. I even tried with a compressor. I've been looking at narrower replacement tires and will order tubeless ready models. I'll attempt to mount those tubeless, but know that with the rim design, burping the tire is much more likely than a true tubeless rim.

You can see my first impressions of the Acolyte drivetrain HERE. Overall, my son is pleased with the change, but doesn't have much time on it. The Arc MT007 hubs are a night and day difference from the unsealed OE units from KT. They are very smooth and the engagement is fantastic. If these things prove to be durable in the long run, I see no reason to spend more money on hubs for a kid's bike. If I were doing a wheel build from scratch though, I would choose a tubeless rim. Especially in a non-pandemic year when such a product might actually be available.


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