# Alibaba e bikes??



## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

Is there any chance the Alibaba E-Bikes are ok?
Something like this Joykie High Quality Double Shock Frame 500w 48v Bafang Motor Dual Suspension E Mtb Mid Drive Ebike - Buy Ebike Mid Drive,Dual Suspension Ebike,Double Shock Ebike Product on Alibaba.com


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Looks good from here.
The review on their site gives them 5 stars.
I say go for it.
=sParty


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## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Looks good from here.
> The review on their site gives them 5 stars.
> I say go for it.
> =sParty


Can't tell if that's sarcasm.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Jack Hass said:


> Can't tell if that's sarcasm.


It is.
=sParty


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

Go for it. Everyone knows that ebikes from your LBS are the exact same thing marked up 3x the cost so they can pay for a new pool house.


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## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> Go for it. Everyone knows that ebikes from your LBS are the exact same thing marked up 3x the cost so they can pay for a new pool house.


again, I think that's sarcasm, but it's true, only the LBS doesn't have the new pool house, Specialized and Giant does.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Over the course of my many years on this planet, I've known several people who owned bike shops.
One of my fav quotes comes from one of these guys.
One day I asked one of my bike shop owner buddies how business was going.
In reply, he asked me if I knew how to wind up with $1,000,000 working in the retail bike business.
I said, "No. How?"
He said, "Start with two million."
=sParty


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## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

seems odd to me that the segment of mountain bikers (e-bikes) that many purists think is an abomination are bike snobs about where the abomination bikes come from.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

You talkin' ta ME?


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

A customer brought in one of those abominations yesterday and was mystified why the chain caught on the fat tire while in low gear. I tried to explain these things are thrown together without any planning. It's a $400 machine sold to him for $2000. The Turbo Levo type bikes are a far better value, even though they cost $5500 you're getting your money's worth. Those fake chinese ebikes are false economy. The amount of nearly new budget bikes like Rad Power failing within a few miles is astounding.


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## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> A customer brought in one of those abominations yesterday and was mystified why the chain caught on the fat tire while in low gear. I tried to explain these things are thrown together without any planning. It's a $400 machine sold to him for $2000. The Turbo Levo type bikes are a far better value, even though they cost $5500 you're getting your money's worth. Those fake chinese ebikes are false economy. The amount of nearly new budget bikes like Rad Power failing within a few miles is astounding.


This reminds me of the bike snobery back in the late 1990's when everyone tried to justify in their mind paying $3,000 for a mountain bike. I didn't have it like that back then but I could keep up with them on my $500 GT that I bought from Walmart.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

This is the problem with Alibaba. Nobody can tell if this is a good bike or not without having their own expert QA's on site inspecting samples off the assembly line.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Jack Hass said:


> This reminds me of the bike snobery back in the late 1990's when everyone tried to justify in their mind paying $3,000 for a mountain bike. I didn't have it like that back then but I could keep up with them on my $500 GT that I bought from Walmart.


Sounds like you’re here to pick a fight with people rather than trust their opinions. 

If you trust your life on some clapped out POS with zero quality control go for it because it’s cheaper, go for it. 

Just don’t rub everyone’s face in it on how much better you are than everyone else who’s giving your their honest thoughts—that you asked for.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

It's impossible for us to say whether that's a good bike or not, but I think you guys are being overly harsh.

For one thing, Bafang makes good motors and controllers. I have one on my converted e-bike commuter and it's been (and is know to be) bomb-proof. 

I'd bet that the battery on this thing is made with cheap cells. It probably also comes with a cheap charger. That's going to be the two achilles heels of this bike.

Other than that, it's not rocket science to make a bike these days. Most of the frames are all made in the same dozen factories. They probably just took any one of their hundreds of already-designed bike frames and turned it into an e-bike. 

Would I take this bike out on my local trails (which are very rough and technical)? No. Would I ride it to work on a paved road, or along a gravel path or an easy XC trail? Hell yeah. So I would ask OP what the intended use is before bashing it.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Jack Hass said:


> This reminds me of the bike snobery back in the late 1990's when everyone tried to justify in their mind paying $3,000 for a mountain bike. I didn't have it like that back then but I could keep up with them on my $500 GT that I bought from Walmart.


Go for it then. Go kick a little a$$ with it.

Not sure what you’re looking for here. You ask. We answer. You crap all over us. Personally, I wouldn’t waste space in my garage with a bike like that but that’s just my opinion, which is what I thought you were seeking here. If not, maybe go write a blog post or something?

Edit: a few of my less salty thoughts, for what they are worth, are as follows:

1. I would not be comfortable riding the terrain I ride with that bike. It would not be enjoyable, worrying constantly whether something was going to explode on impact, or whether I was going to get stranded in a remote area in bad circumstances, even if neither of those things happened.

2. I suspect that the rear d and shock are not manufactured by Shimano and RockShox. The online description of this bike and it components, is a complete fail.

3. Replacement components - how are you going to get that fork serviced/rebuilt? What about the myriad of other non-standard components? What is the shock size? Is a replacement shock readily available?

4. Electronics. Lots of things to go wrong here.

5. No LBS support/product knowledge.

6. I don’t enjoy riding bikes that don’t have decent forks. As I mentioned, it’s not clear how easily this one can be replaced, even if one were inclined to sink more money into this purchase.

7. I am pretty picky about my saddle and tires. I am pretty sure I would not be happy with either on this bike. Wheels too. What about tubeless? Likely out of the question unless…more money. And hubs - if the rear hub goes, then what? Pay to get the wheel rebuilt? What size is that bar?

I can go on and on. In my view, these are all very real concerns. They don’t amount to chasing ghosts.

Regardless of whatever success you may have had conquering overspending snobs back in the good old days, if you are a serious rider, I doubt this bike would last very long on onything but paved pathways. But like I said - go for it!


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

I've purchased things before.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

Jack Hass said:


> This reminds me of the bike snobery back in the late 1990's when everyone tried to justify in their mind paying $3,000 for a mountain bike. I didn't have it like that back then but I could keep up with them on my $500 GT that I bought from Walmart.


It's not always a race.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

ungod said:


> It's impossible for us to say whether that's a good bike or not, but I think you guys are being overly harsh.
> 
> For one thing, Bafang makes good motors and controllers. I have one on my converted e-bike commuter and it's been (and is know to be) bomb-proof.
> 
> ...


To be fair, I only see the problem cases since we are a repair shop. There may be 10x as many that are working without a problem. But from what I've seen I wouldn't waste my money on any of the direct to consumer ebikes. If I was on a budget I'd either stick to normal bicycles, buy a used motorcycle, or build a good used bicycle with a Bafang kit.


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## SpinFactor (Jul 30, 2020)

battery fires suck


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Is there a chance they're ok? Yes, a chance and it depends on your definition of ok. Personally, I wouldn't buy a hardtail bike off of Alibaba. Now throw in rear suspension and a motor and all the electronics, just a lot of areas that might not be ok.

It also has a 220V charger. Do you have a convenient 220v outlet? I supposed you might be able to swap the plug and charge at 110V but it would take a lot longer (?)


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Some folks might say I overspent on my Trek Rail ebike. And in truth I could argue that side of the debate -- the thing was indeed spendy.
But it's an ebike and I know nothing about electronics, electric motors, digital displays, yada, yada. I know my way around a regular bicycle pretty well but if (when) something goes wrong with my ebike, I'm clueless. So I chose to invest in a brand with a local dealer (who I know well), offers a good warranty and I can have some degree of confidence in being taken care of.
To me, that's a good percentage of what makes the higher price worth it.
That plus the darn thing is R & D'd to death and gets solid reviews.
In life, we each make our own way.
=sParty


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Is it Joykie or jokey? 🤣 if I can’t pronounce a product I’ll never purchase it.


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## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

yea, lot of good points here. I am mad that I can get a new Motorcycle for less then a high end E bike.
I still may try and stick it to the man and and get the Joy Kie.
its is scaring me that they have a line of products called Rock Shark.

I'm asking them questions, seeing if they will send picks of the battery cells they use etc.

At the end of the day most everything on our bikes was made in China.

I like that motobecaine also. The Hal e bikes.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

If you want to 'stick it to the man', why not buy a used class 1 to save money. You can buy your parts on Amazon and even avoid your LBS too


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

chazpat said:


> Is there a chance they're ok? Yes, a chance and it depends on your definition of ok. Personally, I wouldn't buy a hardtail bike off of Alibaba. Now throw in rear suspension and a motor and all the electronics, just a lot of areas that might not be ok.
> 
> It also has a 220V charger. Do you have a convenient 220v outlet? I supposed you might be able to swap the plug and charge at 110V but it would take a lot longer (?)





Jack Hass said:


> yea, lot of good points here. I am mad that I can get a new Motorcycle for less then a high end E bike.
> I still may try and stick it to the man and and get the Joy Kie.
> its is scaring me that they have a line of products called Rock Shark.
> 
> ...


The country it's made in is almost irrelevant. It's who designed and oversaw quality control that matters. Not everything made in China is equal.
And yes, I tell people almost weekly to go buy a motorcycle if they want cheap, dependable transportation. I bought an R1200GS with Ohlins shocks for $3800 last year, and besides the fact it weighs 500lbs and only gets 38mpg off-road, I enjoy it far more than my Turbo Levo.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Having ordered some small parts that were out of stock or unobtanium here in the states on Aliexpress with some success I still wouldn't go for a whole bike unless it was from one of the recognized sources like DengFu or Frey that make decent rigs that are somewhat in tune with the market and use semi modern geo and name brand components. However they are not that cheap anymore either and while less than Trek's etc. comparables still a bit of a gamble in regards to service after sale. 

Spend it now or spend it later........


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Alibaba is a bridge too far for me. I know people who've gone that route, and had some luck, but at the end of the day, it's like buying a used bike. You're not taking it back, and any problems you encounter are your problems, with the added bonus of some bizarre low grade parts that probably aren't serviceable, and may or may not conform to any known standard.

For sure, there is a gaping hole in the eMTB market between low end garbage, and the entry level for a high quality bike. I wish somebody would do a quality motor and battery in an alum frame with otherwise garbage components that could be upgraded easily if/when necessary.

About the only thing I've seen in the mid-range that's peaked my interest is 2022 Cyberbikes
Almost certainly a guy who's buying from Alibaba, and reselling under his own name, but at least there's a USA based contact for parts and warranty....for as long as they're in business anyhow. Not the kind of bike anyone should be riding extreme trails with, but probably adequate for 70-80% of the recreational MTB riders out there. The pivot points on the suspension scare me a bit, but I'm old enough to remember when all full suspension bikes were like that, and they held up well enough.


.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

I was just looking at the used Haibikes over on Craigslist. Super dependable Yamaha or Bosch power. Rock shox shock and forks. All at decent prices. Having a 2016 Haibike Full FatSix myself (over 16 thousand miles on the odometer......not one issue at all with the bike or drive or battery), I would have my complete & full confidence in any of those used Haibikes versus any one of those Chinesium ebikes. For more local used Haibikes, Treks, Giants or Specialized, Facebook Marketplace has them.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

MikeTowpathTraveler said:


> I was just looking at the used Haibikes over on Craigslist. Super dependable Yamaha or Bosch power. Rock shox shock and forks. All at decent prices. Having a 2016 Haibike Full FatSix myself (over 16 thousand miles on the odometer......not one issue at all with the bike or drive or battery), I would have my complete & full confidence in any of those used Haibikes versus any one of those Chinesium ebikes. For more local used Haibikes, Treks, Giants or Specialized, Facebook Marketplace has them.


Damn, that’s solid bud!


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## Stanceslao (Nov 5, 2021)

How about the Walmart eBikes? They also come from xhina, but if something goes wrong, you have 90 days to return it... if you buy from alibaba, you're on your own...


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> To be fair, I only see the problem cases since we are a repair shop. There may be 10x as many that are working without a problem. But from what I've seen I wouldn't waste my money on any of the direct to consumer ebikes. If I was on a budget I'd either stick to normal bicycles, buy a used motorcycle, or build a good used bicycle with a Bafang kit.


I'd be fine buying an YT decoy or Vitus ESommet or Canyon whatsitsname, Commencal or Whyte E160. I think lumping all direct to consumer bikes into one box is a unfair. I like working on my own bikes and have never had a problem with any of those brands and I have owned 1 canyon, 2 Vitus, 2 Whyte, 1 YT and 1 Commencal bike.
I have no idea why you wouldn't buy a bike online if you know how to work on your own stuff, unless there is a brand that have some other value to you.
I like the idea of having a competent LBS working on my bike, but there isn't one in about 150KM radius from me and in the end that actually solves a lot of financial expenses for me since I just do everything myself and avoid rear shocks I can't rebuild myself (looking at you X2).


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

jupitersending said:


> I'd be fine buying an YT decoy or Vitus ESommet or Canyon whatsitsname, Commencal or Whyte E160. I think lumping all direct to consumer bikes into one box is a unfair. I like working on my own bikes and have never had a problem with any of those brands and I have owned 1 canyon, 2 Vitus, 2 Whyte, 1 YT and 1 Commencal bike.
> I have no idea why you wouldn't buy a bike online if you know how to work on your own stuff, unless there is a brand that have some other value to you.
> I like the idea of having a competent LBS working on my bike, but there isn't one in about 150KM radius from me and in the end that actually solves a lot of financial expenses for me since I just do everything myself and avoid rear shocks I can't rebuild myself (looking at you X2).


We need to find terms to define the differences between 'fake' and 'real' bicycles. I have a friend that bought a Fezzari, and while it had some minor issues like the rear hub failing, it's a good e-bike and he's relatively happy with it. All the brands you mentioned are fine. It's the ones using non-conventional parts to make them cheap that are the problem.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> We need to find terms to define the differences between 'fake' and 'real' bicycles. I have a friend that bought a Fezzari, and while it had some minor issues like the rear hub failing, it's a good e-bike and he's relatively happy with it. All the brands you mentioned are fine. It's the ones using non-conventional parts to make them cheap that are the problem.


'Fake' ones could be called crotch fires.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

jupitersending said:


> I'd be fine buying an YT decoy or Vitus ESommet or Canyon whatsitsname, Commencal or Whyte E160. I think lumping all direct to consumer bikes into one box is a unfair. I like working on my own bikes and have never had a problem with any of those brands and I have owned 1 canyon, 2 Vitus, 2 Whyte, 1 YT and 1 Commencal bike.
> I have no idea why you wouldn't buy a bike online if you know how to work on your own stuff, unless there is a brand that have some other value to you.
> I like the idea of having a competent LBS working on my bike, but there isn't one in about 150KM radius from me and in the end that actually solves a lot of financial expenses for me since I just do everything myself and avoid rear shocks I can't rebuild myself (looking at you X2).


What about broken frames and no customer service/warranty response? Are all the posters on PB full of 💩? My LBS will never leave me high and dry.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

mtnbkrmike said:


> What about broken frames and no customer service/warranty response? Are all the posters on PB full of 💩? My LBS will never leave me high and dry.


I have no idea about the posts online on PB. There are posts about just about everything online, and I'm sure some are BS and other are legit, but if you believe all you read online is an accurate representation of reality I suspect you have already made a rather rather large investment in tinfoil. 
I'm happy for you about your LBS, congratulations is in order I guess? Doesn't help me or any other riders in my situation though. 
I have been in contact with CS on a few occasions with YT and with CS of Whyte and with Commencal and they sorted everything quite quickly, but I haven't had any real issues like broken frames.

But if you don't like online brands of bikes, then just don't buy them. It's not a problem, noone cares.


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## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

Stanceslao said:


> How about the Walmart eBikes? They also come from xhina, but if something goes wrong, you have 90 days to return it... if you buy from alibaba, you're on your own...


if Walmart sold a mid drive Bafang with rock shock and some shimano parts I would consider it.


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## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> The country it's made in is almost irrelevant. It's who designed and oversaw quality control that matters. Not everything made in China is equal.
> And yes, I tell people almost weekly to go buy a motorcycle if they want cheap, dependable transportation. I bought an R1200GS with Ohlins shocks for $3800 last year, and besides the fact it weighs 500lbs and only gets 38mpg off-road, I enjoy it far more than my Turbo Levo.


A motorcycle may be the way to go. Then the start of the trial will be just a couple of steps from my front door. Lots of guys get killed on the BMW bikes, but almost no one is getting killed on their e mountain bikes.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

Jack Hass said:


> A motorcycle may be the way to go. Then the start of the trial will be just a couple of steps from my front door. Lots of guys get killed on the BMW bikes, but almost no one is getting killed on their e mountain bikes.


I'd rather die on a motorcycle than in my home when my knockoff e-bike spontaneously combusts and burns my house down.


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## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

What's making me more optimistic then I should be is I bought a Chinese $230 road bike about 4 years ago. The no name rims and frame have been bullet proof. The no name brakes didn't stop the bike, but $30 replacements fixed that. The cup and cone bottom bracket failed in the first 3 months, but a $25 cartridge bottom bracket fixed that. it has a low end shimano rear detailer that appears authentic.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

my ebike is a fully rigid budget commuter(iZip Moda E3) and it was still 2K. My next one will definitely be better. A full suspension ebike for 1500 sounds like something to steer very clear of…


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

mtnbkrmike said:


> What about broken frames and no customer service/warranty response? Are all the posters on PB full of ? My LBS will never leave me high and dry.


I’ve owned YT and Commencal bikes and both customer service experiences has been better than any bike shop could offer.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

Jack Hass said:


> What's making me more optimistic then I should be is I bought a Chinese $230 road bike about 4 years ago. The no name rims and frame have been bullet proof. The no name brakes didn't stop the bike, but $30 replacements fixed that. The cup and cone bottom bracket failed in the first 3 months, but a $25 cartridge bottom bracket fixed that. it has a low end shimano rear detailer that appears authentic.


Are you talking about a fixie? And $55 into a $230 bike is a massive failure considering how simple it is.


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## Jack Hass (Jun 27, 2004)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> Are you talking about a fixie? And $55 into a $230 bike is a massive failure considering how simple it is.


no fixie, a 7X3. And $55 is not actually true, I didn't like the handlebars or the seat and I replaced the shifters after I switched the handlebars. I bet I'm over $100 into my $230 bike, and that's using low end parts.


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