# Which would you buy



## hopalong (Jul 28, 2007)

If you were in the market for a new e-bike... 

I have it narrowed to a:

2019 Levo Comp Carbon
YT Decoy Base
Demo 27.5 Pivot Shuttle (light use)
Norco Sight VLT C3


I have ridden a 29" Shuttle, a 27.5 powerfly, and some sort of Kona... I tend to favor the 29" wheels on my human powered bike. 

37 years old, 190lbs, front range of CO, mid - level rider who likes the occasional drop but don't find myself seeking out bike park type terrain very often these days. 

Thoughts on the 4 listed above?


----------



## capnkirk1983 (Oct 15, 2019)

Look into the Fezzari Wire Peak if you havent already

Sent from my SM-G960U using tiny.cc/Mtbr_android_app


----------



## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

I've only demoed the Levo Comp Carbon, but that's all it took to make up my mind that that is my next bike. Not replacing the HT, which I love, but plan to ride both. 

The combination of 29 wheels, spec, 700wh battery, local LBS support should anything go wrong, and especially the mission control app. The ability to customize the assist limit with the power output on all three settings was really cool. There are also other applications that work with the app that are crazy, like having variable power output to keep your heart rate at a certain level.

Plus, it rode really well.

Norco only runs the Shimano steps E7000 with a 500wh battery, with SX components and the Decoy does have the E8000, but only with a 540wh battery. Both also run a Yari fork, and the Levo has the Lyrik.

I would choose between the Pivot and the Levo.


----------



## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

500wh is not even worth looking at, at 36V thats 14Ah! A good grocery getter I guess.


----------



## dodger (Feb 10, 2004)

Did you look at the 2020 Levo Comp (Al version). Has the 700WHr battery and is a much better value. I don't think a couple pound weight savings is worth the $$ on an E Bike. My personal ride is a 2018 Commencal Meta 27 with >4,000 miles on it now.


----------



## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

hopalong said:


> If you were in the market for a new e-bike...
> 
> I have it narrowed to a:
> 
> ...


If you were going to be riding technical terrain, I would without hesitation recommend the Shuttle. But since it's going to be more of a front range up-and-downer, I'd go with the Levo Comp Carbon because you can upgrade to a 700Wh battery if you need to.


----------



## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

700wh battery is a poor criteria for choice because you can get 1000wh with a shimano system and carrying a spare battery. I would be more concerned with motor/battery config options outside of OEM, aka eMax software availability for the Shimano system which is phenomenal 

Get the Shuttle and avoid one-off batteries 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Wait for the Norco Sight VLT 29er. It will take an extender battery like the Norco Range. It should be out in the next couple months. Look at the Orbea Wild too. It will take an extender battery for a total of 1125wh of battery.

I sold my 2019 Carbon Expert Levo with a 700wh and ordered an Orbea Wild Team with 1125wh and the new Bosch Gen 4 motor.


----------



## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

hopalong said:


> If you were in the market for a new e-bike...
> 
> I have it narrowed to a:
> 
> ...


Is this your first ebike? If so, buy the Levo model that you can afford, ride it for a while and try to keep it stock. My guess is that you will want to upgrade after you do your own real world testing. Big name Specialized will be easiest to resell.


----------



## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Praxis, 2D cold-forged alloy, custom offset, 165mm.............
I think i just threw up in my mouth..............


----------



## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

What's your favorite local bike shop?
What brand(s) do they sell?
Go with what they know, recommend, support and warranty.
Like Jack7782 said, seat time will teach you what you like.


----------



## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

RickBullottaPA said:


> I'd go with the Levo Comp Carbon because you can upgrade to a 700Wh battery if you need to.


Sry about my lack of reading comprehension. See that you're looking at the '19 Levo Comp Carbon, not the '20 Comp AL.

I do agree with dodger about not "needing" a carbon frame for an e-bike even though I'm a self- admitted carbon snob.


----------



## hopalong (Jul 28, 2007)

The shuttle can apparently be run with 29" wheels as well. I definitely do not want to carry spare batteries in a camelbak or whatnot, but having the option to swap at camp might be nice (I do have a generator I was planning on utilizing for weekend trips)

Also considering waiting until the decoy gets released with the rumored 700wh battery. Or waiting for the rumored Sight VLT 29"

Yes this will be my 1st e-bike, would I be better off building something and really going down the rabbit hole? Would like to keep things under 6k or so. Hence the intrigue around the yt decoy and 2019 / demo bikes.


----------



## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

Trek Rail
Cannondale Monterra SE dull crown


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Look at Orbea. You can add an extender battery.


----------



## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

shreddr said:


> 700wh battery is a poor criteria for choice because you can get 1000wh with a shimano system and carrying a spare battery. I would be more concerned with motor/battery config options outside of OEM, aka eMax software availability for the Shimano system which is phenomenal
> 
> Get the Shuttle and avoid one-off batteries
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No sane person would carry a spare 500 Wh battery on a "normal" ride. Plus, it takes 15 minutes to swap out on a Shuttle. Secondly, if you think the Shimano software is good, I have to disagree completely. For a bike like the Shuttle (I own one), you can swap between 29er and 27.5 plus, and I also change tires seasonally - you cannot change the wheel circumference in the Shimano app and you need to travel to a dealer and pay them to do it. That's just ridiculous. Also, the highest end display, the E8000, doesn't provide much telemetry on drive system performance. In short, their software sucks.

I love my Shuttle, but the Shimano display and software are one of its weak links.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I’d choose the lightly ridden Shuttle, it’s essentially a Mach 5.5, great bike, high quality, attention to detail, lightweight, excellent all around bike.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It's new, it's not available, no one is riding it, and the geometry is terrible. But yeah, you can use a battery extender.



kntr said:


> Look at Orbea. You can add an extender battery.


----------



## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

RickBullottaPA said:


> No sane person would carry a spare 500 Wh battery on a "normal" ride. Plus, it takes 15 minutes to swap out on a Shuttle. Secondly, if you think the Shimano software is good, I have to disagree completely. For a bike like the Shuttle (I own one), you can swap between 29er and 27.5 plus, and I also change tires seasonally - you cannot change the wheel circumference in the Shimano app and you need to travel to a dealer and pay them to do it. That's just ridiculous. Also, the highest end display, the E8000, doesn't provide much telemetry on drive system performance. In short, their software sucks.
> 
> I love my Shuttle, but the Shimano display and software are one of its weak links.


You must have missed my eMax software reference. With this aftermarket software you can change anything you want including circumference, and the Shimano system becomes the best system ever. Carrying an extra battery isn't as hard as it sounds, there are lots or excellent packs that have special pockets for the extra battery, the Ergon BA2E for example. If you wanna go far you are going to need more, and if you don't want to go far then the 500wh is fine.


----------



## hopalong (Jul 28, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'd choose the lightly ridden Shuttle, it's essentially a Mach 5.5, great bike, high quality, attention to detail, lightweight, excellent all around bike.


Would it change your mind if it were a 2018 model?


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> It's new, it's not available, no one is riding it, and the geometry is terrible. But yeah, you can use a battery extender.


Its available in the USA next week. Jenson even carries them. People are riding them overseas already. The Orbea Wild is considered to be one of the top ebikes.

What don't you like about the geometry?

The Shuttle has a shimano motor which feels terrible. Talk about bobble head feeling. A 504 battery is not enough.

My Levo with a 700 was just about right but I wanted more. The Orbea numbers look pretty close to the Levo.


----------



## jprider (May 24, 2009)

As an owner of a Intense Tazer and a user of eMax software, I can totally agree. I seldom carry a spare battery because I can lower the assist to what the trail requires.
I tune down Eco, Trail and tune Boost to the former Trail mod. I use the mode switch like a front dérailleur, just enough help and not over power.


----------



## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

jprider said:


> As an owner of a Intense Tazer and a user of eMax software, I can totally agree. I seldom carry a spare battery because I can lower the assist to what the trail requires.
> I tune down Eco, Trail and tune Boost to the former Trail mod. I use the mode switch like a front dérailleur, just enough help and not over power.


I did the exact same thing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

shreddr said:


> You must have missed my eMax software reference. With this aftermarket software you can change anything you want including circumference, and the Shimano system becomes the best system ever. Carrying an extra battery isn't as hard as it sounds, there are lots or excellent packs that have special pockets for the extra battery, the Ergon BA2E for example. If you wanna go far you are going to need more, and if you don't want to go far then the 500wh is fine.


After a bad experience with Shimano hackware and the issues around firmware version compatibility, I prefer to stay with the limitations of the eTube software (which are many, and the UX sucks).

FYI, I do own and LOVE my Shuttle. But I do wish a 700WH battery was an option. I'm hoping that the next gen Shimano E9000 or whatever they call it will be backwards compatible and will offer a more dense battery option.

Cheers and happy new year.


----------



## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

hopalong said:


> Would it change your mind if it were a 2018 model?


Nope. The differences are mostly that the newer models come with 29ers stock and no DI2. I have a 2018 BTW. Very happy with it. I did upgrade the fork and wheelset.


----------



## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

RickBullottaPA said:


> After a bad experience with Shimano hackware and the issues around firmware version compatibility, I prefer to stay with the limitations of the eTube software (which are many, and the UX sucks).
> 
> FYI, I do own and LOVE my Shuttle. But I do wish a 700WH battery was an option. I'm hoping that the next gen Shimano E9000 or whatever they call it will be backwards compatible and will offer a more dense battery option.
> 
> Cheers and happy new year.


If you haven't tried the eMax software, give it a shot. I too have had compatibility issues with so called "upgrades" only to have my bike throw an error on just about every ride. The eMax has solved all of that. Markus seems to have a pretty good handle on what he and Shimano are doing and his software uses the best of both. In order to unlock the maximum benefit you need to go back to a previous version of the Shimano firmware, which is easier than it sounds. Regarding battery, my bike has the external mount which can be changed in seconds. If I was going on a massive (4+ hour) trek, then I would want to take a spare battery. If I was doing loops in a known riding area, I could just have the spare in my car, and swap out after a couple of hours. Bigger batteries weigh more, so it's not like more kwH is just better no matter what.


----------



## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

A motorized YT Capra with mullet set up, AKA Decoy. Great bike. Can handle anything you can throw at it, unless you’re Red Bull Rampage insanity.


----------



## akaktm (Sep 15, 2008)

I’ve ridden several of those bikes. Though I’m not a specialized fan, I strongly encourage you to get the Levo and not look back. Best motor / controller / battery combo on the market today. And those 19 carbon comps or 20 aluminum comps can be had for a very decent price.


----------



## dodger (Feb 10, 2004)

akaktm said:


> I've ridden several of those bikes. Though I'm not a specialized fan, I strongly encourage you to get the Levo and not look back. Best motor / controller / battery combo on the market today. And those 19 carbon comps or 20 aluminum comps can be had for a very decent price.


Definitely agree with this. You forgot the quietest too. The big fly in the ointment w/ Specialized/Brose is reliability. I've seen many of these motors go back for warranty. The Shimano motor may be undergunned and noisy, but I've got >4,000 miles of nothing but gnar on it and it hasn't blinked.


----------



## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I had a 19 Expert dialed, sold it and the yt, “for me” is way more nimble. Brose motors scare me also, although very quiet.


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

akaktm said:


> I've ridden several of those bikes. Though I'm not a specialized fan, I strongly encourage you to get the Levo and not look back. Best motor / controller / battery combo on the market today. And those 19 carbon comps or 20 aluminum comps can be had for a very decent price.


If by "best motor" you mean quietest and smoothest then, yes. They just aren't that reliable.


----------



## rwdbkr (Jan 24, 2008)

Gutch said:


> I had a 19 Expert dialed, sold it and the yt, "for me" is way more nimble. Brose motors scare me also, although very quiet.


nim·ble
/ˈnimbəl/
adjective
quick and light in movement or action; agile.

I have an '18 levo. I feel like it handles pretty well for a 50# bike. When you say 'way more nimble, can you elaborate? That noticeable?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

hopalong said:


> Would it change your mind if it were a 2018 model?


Nope, same opinion, bike is unchanged since inception, only groupo changes.

I also wouldn't worry about noise, it's a non issue when pedaling unless you are a princess; these are mountain bikes ya know.

In terms of reliability, I don't think there is a significant difference between any of the bikes you listed.

I do think there is a difference in how these bikes engage intially, my wife found the Levos to be "jumpy" and hard to start from a standstill on a hill, but did not find that to be the case with the Shuttle; different drive system.

The longer chainstay bikes will be harder to handle in tight terrain and less playful, so this could be a factor depending on use and rider experience.

Buying a used bike that is already depreciated is going to be a better deal that buying new, warranty issues would be my only concern: So can you get the warranty on the demo Shuttle?


----------



## 2wls4ever (May 11, 2006)

Go with the YT Decoy



hopalong said:


> If you were in the market for a new e-bike...
> 
> I have it narrowed to a:
> 
> ...


----------



## RichardWad (Sep 24, 2019)

Love the 2019 Levo Comp AL and assuming you like the 2020 colors, can get the same model but it comes w the 700 battery as standard.


The whole package and not-trash looks of the bike is what puts it above 99% of other ebikes


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Nope, same opinion, bike is unchanged since inception, only groupo changes.
> 
> I also wouldn't worry about noise, it's a non issue when pedaling unless you are a princess; these are mountain bikes ya know.
> 
> ...


You can adjust that with Mission Control.

You still didn't answer my question as to why you don't like the 2020 Orbea Wild?


----------



## akaktm (Sep 15, 2008)

I have more than 1000mi on the 19 Levo. They did have issues, but those seem to be solved and I'd say reliability is now similar to or better than the Shimano. The Brose is, today, hands down the motor of choice for the combination of power, noise, smoothness, etc. Rode the YT. Nice chassis, but wrong motor.


----------



## hopalong (Jul 28, 2007)

The new 2020 YT decoy 29er is calling my name! 

I worry it might not be aggressive enough.


----------



## 2wls4ever (May 11, 2006)

Why does the Shimano motor feel terrible to you?


----------



## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

If you like YT, the Decoy can be ridden (in high mode) which I prefer, steeper head tube etc. But, if you go gravity you can lower the chip and slack it out. Chameleon factor. I absolutely love the mullet set up. JMO.


----------



## dustyman (Feb 13, 2007)

hopalong said:


> The new 2020 YT decoy 29er is calling my name!
> 
> I worry it might not be aggressive enough.


hopalong,

Not sure if your aware but the new Levo SL just came out this week and it only weighs 38 pounds. This is a game changer to hard core mountain bikers who dislike ebikes. The reviews have been very positive with some claiming it rides more like a Stumpjumper then a Levo. It's expensive but if you wait around eight months you should find a used one. If you can't wait and don't mind the excessive motor noise the Shuttle is the closest of the bikes you mentioned to a regular mountain bike. I believe it's the lightest also.


----------

