# Real world ebike range



## Phantastic79 (Apr 5, 2017)

Forgive me if this thread already exists. A quick search didn't come up with anything. 

I'd like to know some real world ebike ranges from actual mountain bike users on trails. 

Are you Turbo Levo guys actually getting about 50miles+ of range or is more like 35?

Just curious. Include as much detail info as you like or not. Weight, ride area, elevation....etc.

Post a Strava link if that's easier.


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## ruthabagah (Jun 4, 2018)

Hi,

I have 3 ebikes and the range varies a lot depending of the models, batteries and rider. 

- Specialized levo, 2017 (FSR): About 30 miles on tough MTB rides around here in CO for an average rider. I pushed it to 40 several times, and it went as low as 19 with one rider (he was not used to the altitude and kept it on high all the time). On flat land, I can probably go 70 miles. 

- Specialized Levo 2018 (FSR Comp): The biggest difference is in climbing, where the extra torque of the 1.3 engine, helps using less assistance. I would probably say, 40 miles on the same MTB trails. I have not done much flat terrain with this one. 

- Haibike allmntn 5.0 2017 (Yamaha motor): I get more range on this bike than the Levos. The same tough MTB trail will leave me with a half full battery. Again, I think it's due to the higher torque provided by the Yamaha motor. On flat, the display shows a range of 109 miles. I have done a couple of 60 - 70 miles rides with this bike and still had some decent battery life (20%).

I hope this help.


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## Phantastic79 (Apr 5, 2017)

ruthabagah said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have 3 ebikes and the range varies a lot depending of the models, batteries and rider.
> 
> ...


That's surprising. On the Haibike you are getting actual 60+ miles of range on single track? I assume this is on level 1 and you are trying to squeeze as much range as possible.

How do you like the feel of the Haibike to the Levos. Do they have similiar components?


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## ruthabagah (Jun 4, 2018)

Phantastic79 said:


> That's surprising. On the Haibike you are getting actual 60+ miles of range on single track? I assume this is on level 1 and you are trying to squeeze as much range as possible.
> 
> How do you like the feel of the Haibike to the Levos. Do they have similiar components?


The haibike is a beast going uphill. Not faster, but you can definitely feel more assist coming up and a better range. That was my first bike and I now keep it for first time riders / demo. The Levo are more "polished" in terms of their aptitude to descent hard trails / rock gardens. The Haibike is better at handling fast fire break roads and OHV / Jeep trails.

After a little over a year and 3000 miles between all 3 bikes, I like the Levo's integration, look and geometry better, but the Yamaha motor beats the brose everyday and twice on sunday.


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## Leebherron (Jan 21, 2004)

*Giant*

I agree, my results are similar. I ride a 2018 Giant Full E-1 SX Pro. All the latest mid drive bikes will get similar range depending on battery size and what power you use. I am more than happy with the new Yamaha motor. My rides are between 1 1/2 and 3 hours. I have never run out of juice and I use all modes when I feel necessary. I am a expert mtber and have made every climb I have ever encountered. Great fun and the workout is as hard as you want to make it. Basically Giant's downhill bike with assist. Only negitives are weight and a low bottom bracket, otherwise brilliant. I reduced the 52 pounds to 48 and feel the difference. Handling and suspension are terrific. Great job giant


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## Leebherron (Jan 21, 2004)

*Giant Full E Review*

I agree, my results are similar. I ride a 2018 Giant Full E-1 SX Pro. All the latest mid drive bikes will get similar range depending on battery size and what power you use. I am more than happy with the new Yamaha motor. My rides are between 1 1/2 and 3 hours. I have never run out of juice and I use all modes when I feel necessary. I am a expert mtber and have made every climb I have ever encountered. Great fun and the workout is as hard as you want to make it. Basically Giant's downhill bike with assist. Only negitives are weight and a low bottom bracket, otherwise brilliant. I reduced the 52 pounds to 48 and feel the difference. Handling and suspension are terrific. Great job Giant!


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## csf (Apr 28, 2007)

New to ebike and only had the levo for a month or so.

Largest ride on mtb specific trails: 24 miles, 2500' vert, 2.5 hr moving, think i had 50% battery remaining using eco 25%

Most battery used to date: 16 miles, 3700' vert, almost 2 hr moving time, 29% battery remianing, used mostly trail at 50% assist with some turbo 100% on steeps. This was on old mining roads and dirtbike singletrack. Sustained grades of 8-11% on the mining roads! Ill try 35% next time and see how it goes

The more assist needed the more of a battery drain for sure.

This all on a 17 TL fsr comp with original firmware 460 WH battery

My wife could probably go all day at 70% assist! 


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

*Haibike Full FatSix*

I post pretty much in the Fatbiking & Health thread, having gone from a Fatboy to a Haibike Full FatSix, Yamaha PW drive system with the 400wh battery.....

Just completed a 95.4 mile canal towpath and asphalt roadway run on Wednesday. Towpaths are basically water level riding, but there are 4 rather significant climbs in and out of creek and river sheds on the way to the canals. Documentation of this ride starts at post 6205 here: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fat-biking-health-922626-63.html Lotsa pictures of the ride. This ride was done using the Eco power setting for the first 50 miles or so and from there a combination of switching from Eco to +Eco every other mile in order to ensure I had juice left to complete the ride. At the end, I did; having 18 percent battery power left after riding for 95.4 miles.

No, this is not western mountain style riding. But I figure at the end of the day, miles in the saddle are still, miles in the saddle!


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

I get 3.5 to 6hrs out of a 10ah 52v battery never switching out of eco. Just depends on how long I have to ride rather than how far I go during the time allowed. Today my 58.8v, top of charge, battery wasn't fully charged and started out a 53.4, less than a 48v battery fully charged which is 54.4. Eeked 25 miles/3.5hrs of all single track with lots of upness and downness out of it but it was losing power on the last climb. I stayed in eco as usual but as I wasn't riding with anyone I kept the hammer down and ground up most of the climbs at a hair raising 7mph.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

My bike is a Motobecane Ti Night Train Bullet (fatbike 26 X4.8 Jumbo Jim's tubless) Luna BBSHD drive and 52 v 700wh battery. 
Most of my riding is flat and on flats I get a range of about 100 miles at 16-17 mph. Power draw is 25-200 watts. I can ride flat without battery assistance at around 13-14 mph.
On Single track the most I have done is a 25 mile loop with lots of climbing. My average speed was probably 7 mph and I used approximately 280 watt hrs.
I went to electric to control heart rate. I am 63yo and in good health but not a high energy person but I do want a decent workout. 
Best of electric is you don't need the deft use of momentum so you don't constantly hype yourself and ride like an idiot.
I have built 9 electric bike so far with all but mine riding flat terrain. Ranges vary widely with the biggest factor being speed. Power draw multiplies with speed. A 20 mph speed gives a range of about 50 miles with 550 watt hrs draw. At 15 mph the range is 100 miles plus.


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

If range is a key consideration, I'd strongly recommend renting a Levo for a day and making that determination for yourself, on your local trails with your intended riding style.

You can guess how much battery you'll use by calculating the power usage. Most of the Levos have a 500wH battery. Peak output of the motor is 500watts. This makes the math easy - for every 10% of assist, the motor drains 50 watts. At 10% assist, the battery would last 10 hours. At 100% assist, the battery would last one hour. 

With the added weight of the bike, power loss in the motor (mostly thermal), and the fat tire rolling resistance, the bike needs about 10% of assist just to "neutralize" itself with a regular bike. So realistically, most people will have their assist level at a minimum of 25%, and more likely somewhere closer to 50%, so that's between 2 and 4 hours of range.

To get up steeps, you can either dismount and walk your bike, or kick the assist up to 70-100% for a brief period, with obvious battery penalty.


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

My 2-cents regarding stated range numbers is to ignore them and compare ebikes range based on battery amp hour * voltage (watt hour) / 20. “Comparable range” is subject to too many factors to think what someone else states they get and what you get can vary widely. The common factor is battery size and voltage.

Example: A Sanyo-Panasonic GA 21Ah/1008Wh battery pack and a 48V mid-drive motor yields (21Ah * 48V) / 20 = 50.4 miles estimated “real world” reliable range. That said, you can get more range using your legs and low power with whatever mid-drive motor you are using. I’ve got 100+ miles out of this battery, but not the way I like to ride in the real world. My “preferred” riding style yields about 65-75 miles.

This is a very good “rule of thumb” calculation for real world range in varying conditions and power levels often controlled by the systems computer while you are simply riding and having fun. It serves prospective buyers well when trying to compare one system to the other; as the battery is the key and most important part of the range equation. Electric motors are simple machines that convert that battery power. Gearing, weight and your input play a huge role too and can’t be measured objectively.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Whiptastic I don't know whether to say you are right or say you are wrong with my real world experience. 

20 watt hours per mile is about what you would get using throttle only and going twenty miles an hour, something most people would not do. 

On the other hand your math assumes 100% battery use and the best you are likely to get real world is about 70% so your 20 watt hours per mile is really 14 watt hours per mile. 14 watt hours per mile is what you are likely to get doing a bit of pedaling going 17-20 mph (without serious climbs). In the end your range is not unreasonable using 20 watt hours per mile but the full name plate rating of the battery pack.

I usually get much better than 14 watt hours per mile. The longer the ride, the more the watt hours per mile tend to climbs towards the end of the ride.


I would like to point out something about range and e bike batteries. I my opinion there are many more miles in the first 50% of the battery than the second 50% of the battery for two reasons.


First reason is a battery is a chemical reaction to produce power. voltage drops steadily with battery use on a Li ion battery. Batteries are rated by amp hours at nominal voltage. Amps being a measure of coulombs or think of it as available electrons total in the battery. Think of voltage as pressure on those electrons. When the voltage is high the same number of electrons produced by the battery takes you further as power is Volts times Amps. Higher voltage batteries have more range. 

The second problem is voltage sag. A battery voltage sags (or drops) down quickly due to the batteries inability to provide enough electrons quickly enough to satisfy your demand for power. Just like opening a faucet and wanting to much water, battery voltage is like pressure, want to much and the pressure drops. Voltage sag is also greater the more depressed the battery becomes. At some point the Battery Management System BMS starts to cut the power to save the battery from damage. I have been at the bottom of a 350 foot climb when the BMS said no to the amount of assist I wanted. Reducing assist would allow the battery to rest a few seconds and then give me a boost of about a half amp. With a few more seconds the power would jump to one amp. At that point the BMS would cut power again within a few more seconds to start the whole process over again. Frustrating but doable. By the time I got to the top and the end of my ride, the battery voltage was essentially at zero battery (42.3 volts on 52 volt battery). After letting the battery sit for one hour a check revealed a battery voltage increase to 45.3 or 20% of battery remaining. That 20% is essentially unusable due to the BMS and voltage sag. 

My rule of thumb is that 75% of my range is in the first 50% of my battery. Rarely to I get a good charge above 92% battery (57.4 volts) and cutoff should be around the 25% range and that is where I get my 70% number from. 


Whiptastic I don't know how other see it and so many factors affect range that I am inclined to agree with your numbers providing that your "real world range" is around an 80%-90% guarantee.


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## pumpsmynads (May 12, 2017)

A lot is down to how u ride it and now much assistance u use - natch. 

I have a 25 mile loop near me with 2 reasonable climbs of 200m each. I do this with my unpowered friends, at their speeds and assistance set at 35% and have 65-70% battery remaining at the end. If I go out (as I did once) on my own and do the route with 100% assistance all the way the battery runs out with about 0.5 miles to go. It’s over 1 hour quicker, and much more fun, but range suffers greatly.


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

PR - The simple formula I stated is partly to ensure purchasers aren’t disappointed when they buy and the eMTB actual range ends up disappointing them when compared to manufacturer stated range. IMHO battery Watt Hour is the best way to compare one eMTB to the others range, not the manufacturers stated range. What range comes down to is basically how much of that Wh is used by the way the rider applies it; and their weight.

The other reason I like this common formula is to eliminate range anxiety. 20Wh/mile is conservative and is what I use when selecting a battery for a given desired range for what I ride.

Looking at my typical preferred way of riding (no throttle on my ebikes) and the 65-75 mile range for 1008Wh, you can back into a Wh/mile of 13.44-15.51; much better than the 20Wh/mile used in the rule-of-thumb formula.

I guess someone could run even more detailed numbers using the voltage range of ~54.3 full charge down to ~42.0 shutoff (which I never hit); approximately 12V of range (48V motor).

Your comments on power drop are interesting. That might be battery quality related (not sure?). I don’t get any noticeable battery power drop within my Sanyo-Panasonic GA battery operating voltage range of about 54V-42V. Although I did on my very first 350W/36V BBS01 ebike with a generic ~10Ah battery. My experience so far is that the 36V motors I’ve ridden with unknown brand batteries do experience power drop as the battery is used. 48V systems/motors are superior IMHO.

FYI: 230lb rider


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## michielk (Jul 19, 2018)

In general, if you pedal and limit to top speed to a fit man, you can estimate the range to 20 Wh per mile of riding. So it depends on the capacity of the battery. In my experience, I use anywhere between 10 and 25wh per mile of riding.

My bike is pedal only but it is a speed pedelec (motor can aid up to 28 mph), so if I ride it at high speed my range is limited.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Whiptastic your thinking is pretty close to mine on range and power overall.

On battery sag. I am running a 52 v Luna 13.5 amp hour GA battery. I get a at least a one volt sag a power draws of 4-6 amps when the battery is above 50%.

I ride a titanium Motobecane fat bike running 26 X 4.8 Jumbo Jim's set up tubeless at about 16 lbs. of air in tires. Me and the bike weigh about 260 lbs. (118 kg). I am running a BBSHD with a 42 tooth chain ring and 11 speed 11X44 cassette in the rear. I change gears constantly.

I ride three days a week with a group of riders on paved bike path. Average age of riders is about 75 and ride speeds are about 14-15 mph (22-24 kph). On those rides I use about 4-6 watt hrs per mile.

On rode rides by myself I average about 16-18 mph ( 26-30 kph) and use around 7-9 watt hrs per mile. The rides have a fair number of hills. 

Off road I average about 10-12 watt hrs per mile with lots or climbing.

I do not have a throttle as I consider them to be dangerous because of accidently bumping the throttle at bad times.

I have 9 power settings. My controller maxes at 30 amps. The first four settings are 5%, 10%, 15% 20% power. level-5 is 35% level-6 is 55%. The speed limit on the first 6 settings is 20 mph (32 mph). 55% power is 750 watts at crank. Level-7 speed is bumped to 24 mph (39 kph) at 55% power. Level-8 speed is bumped to 28 mph (45 kph) Level 9 is an off road only unlimited setting. With full battery I get around 1600 watts and it tops out around 30 mph (48 kph).

Most of my time is spent in the first four settings. I have about 6,000 miles ( 9,700 km) on the bike so far.


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## alexchannell (Sep 4, 2004)

I drained my kenevo down to 8% after 21 miles. This was all hilly trails and using mostly turbo and trying to go as fast as possible. I'm also 210lbs.


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## ruthabagah (Jun 4, 2018)

alexchannell said:


> I drained my kenevo down to 8% after 21 miles. This was all hilly trails and using mostly turbo and trying to go as fast as possible. I'm also 210lbs.


I found out that changing the turbo assist on the highest mode from Race to Normal makes a lot of differences in terms of range.


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## TNTE3 (Nov 10, 2017)

I live on a ohv trail system that is all single track and black to double black diamond runs. 
3 days high power on levo, 14 miles was worst and 18 was the best. 
Kenevo was 11 miles and 16
Bulls fs3 27.5 plus 21 and 36
Fantic XF1. 19 and 28
Bulls evo 45. 17 and 25
Pivot shuttle. 15 and 21
Haibike enduro 17-23
Focus jam2. 11-16

That’s what i got from all of them in high power mode on same trail and using my heart rate monitor to give me fastest i can go to the least amount of work

On power level 1 the levo, kenevo, focus, pivot,could not break 50 miles on a trail that you end up with a 4.5 to 5.7mph average speed 
Rider, 193lbs, there is over 1300 strava riders and shuttle service riders in this trail system and i have the strava KOM, On every DH section on the trail network that I’ve ridden and the only ebike in the top 20 times for those runs.
on my cannondale jejyle i am 20th at best on the climbs so I’m not the strongest peddler, i average in top 40 on climbs.


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## Phantastic79 (Apr 5, 2017)

TNTE3 said:


> I live on a ohv trail system that is all single track and black to double black diamond runs.
> 3 days high power on levo, 14 miles was worst and 18 was the best.
> Kenevo was 11 miles and 16
> Bulls fs3 27.5 plus 21 and 36
> ...


Thanks. Thats a lot of data. Do you own or rent all of those bikes? Maybe you have a bike shop?


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## TNTE3 (Nov 10, 2017)

Fantastic, i do not rent or own a bike shop, I’ve been a Test rider for one of the larger suspension companies for may years and do suspension testing evaluations and reomondarions. So I’ve been on many bikes over past few years and a quite a few more bikes i can’t comment on. 
But i do find the focus, levo, kenevo to have by far the shortest range. But the levo is a solid bike for sub 150mm travel bike. 
However i have recently become a brand ambassador for Fantic, i have fallen in love with there bikes and really enjoy there different approach to bike setup


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## ron t (Jun 15, 2018)

I ran my Haibike XDURO AllMtn 8.0 with 500wh battery and Bosch motor completely out on a 30-mile ride with about 4,500 vert of climbing. Luckily I was 100 yards from the truck because that thing is hard to pedal on the flat when it runs out, and any sort of hill means walking. That was before I learned to budget my power though. Since that experience I'm more careful with eMTB mode (level 3) and run more in Eco or Tour (level 1 and 2) on long rides with a lot of climbing.


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## brado (May 13, 2010)

It would be really helpful if everyone posting here could post the ride time, E mode, and vertical.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

brado said:


> It would be really helpful if everyone posting here could post the ride time, E mode, and vertical.


Yeah but that would only be one data point. You need multiple data points from the same bike/motor/battery to get any general impression of its battery range.

I've only had this bike for about 4 weeks, so far a few different scenarios:

A. 10 miles, mostly in level 2 or 3, some throttle at times. 1/3 of the ride, about 30 minutes up a pretty large hill, maybe 1200 feet at the top, on pavement. That was constant level 3 or 4 and throttle. Used about 60% of my 13.5 Ah battery for the 500W / 1100 peak W motor in only 10 miles. Reason: constant uphill battery drain. Range if drained: around 17 miles total.

B. 16 miles, only 2 miles uphill with level 3/4 and throttle. Rest was level 1/2 or off during downhill. Used about 40% of the battery. Range if drained: 40 miles.

C. 13 miles, up a 1000 foot mountain but too steep to ride up the whole way. And that means level 1 or 2 up most of it, because level 3/4 or throttle in dirt/gravel just spins the motor tire. So I can't use as much battery up a mountain on dirt/gravel as I can up pavement even if I wanted to. Would need to find a hardpack trail to get up the mountain faster and use more watts. 50% battery done = 26 mile range if drained.

Theoretical range for 500W 13.5Ah battery: 34 miles. Actual range: 17-40 miles, mean is 28 miles. Pretty close.

The more I climb on pavement, the faster the battery is drained, because I have enough traction to just keep amping up the juice. The more I climb on dirt/gravel, the less battery power I use because of tire traction issues. That means that I'm now wondering what an electric fat bike would be like with a mid-drive, and 4-inch wide traction in back for the chain-driven torque. My front drive hub has a Maxxis 2.7 but even that's not enough to keep traction up dirt after level 2. More than 400 watts = loss of traction.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> The more I climb on pavement, the faster the battery is drained, because I have enough traction to just keep amping up the juice. The more I climb on dirt/gravel, the less battery power I use because of tire traction issues. That means that I'm now wondering what an electric fat bike would be like with a mid-drive, and 4-inch wide traction in back for the chain-driven torque. My front drive hub has a Maxxis 2.7 but even that's not enough to keep traction up dirt after level 2. More than 400 watts = loss of traction.


I can give you some idea. This past week I had the opportunity to climb a dune trail. The sand was loose enough, with no vegetation, that control on a bike with 2.35" tires at low pressure would have been a control loss. The dune was steep enough to require getting out of the saddle and over the handle bars. The dune had a very short run to get started and was probably 60 to 80 feet high.

Me and the bike are about 260 lb. Tires are Jumbo Jim's running tubeless at 9lb pressure. Power 920 watts. The bike went right up and I did not notice spinning. Coming back down was much scarier than going down. I was amazed that the tires smoothed out the many footprint dugouts. I was wowed, more about the decent than the climb though.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

I took a longer ride. Total 46 miles, 20 miles paved/gravel, 22 miles sandy fire roads, 4 miles sand/beach/dune. Power settings are all max power draw and tend to run lower on that power setting. 160 watts max 10% of time, 240 watts max- 30% of time, 320 watts max 50% of time and 450-750 watts 10% of time. 
Estimated vert climb 500-600 feet. Wind gusty at times but mostly not a big factor.
65 lb fat bike with tubeless 26 X 4.8 Jumbo Jim's at 8-10 lbs pressure. This bike has no throttle. Total me and the bike 260 lbs. Speed on roads was 16-20 mph. Fire roads 13-15 mph.

Total watt hours used 400. Battery 700 watt hours. Started my ride at 95% battery and finished at 38%. 8.7 watt hours per mile. 


Another ride was 29 miles, same bike. 15 miles paved/gravel into strong headwinds with 700 vert climbing at 17-21 mph plus 14 miles of sandy single track with 1400 vert climbing at average speed of 5-11 mph (avg 7.5) Power settings for road were 320-750 watts max. Setting for single track were mostly 320 watt max. Total power used was 310 watt hours from a 700 watt hour battery. 10.7 watt hours per mile. 

Why is it that mid week day riding you always clean out all the spider webs. Yuck.


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

brado said:


> It would be really helpful if everyone posting here could post the ride time, E mode, and vertical.


2017 Trek Powerfly 8FS, with Bosch CX-Performance system & 500WA battery. 1070 miles so far.

I ride in tour mode until climbing in granny gear, and will then use Sport, or Turbo if needed to get up steep stuff. Bosch dealer software measures % time (not distance) in each mode; eco=2%, tour=28%, sport=43%, & turbo=27%.

I'm 64yo, 240lbs with gear, and a new knee in March.

My rides are 10-25 miles, and battery seems mostly dependent on elevation climbed;
1600-1900ft, uses 3 of 5 bars of power.
2000-2500ft, uses 4 of 5 bars of power.

For example, Soquel Demo Forest rides;
(https://www.gaiagps.com/public/GDD2MayMFKQh9Xrag4kYLzm9)
always use 4 of 5 bars.

Yes, I have a temp disability placard & special-permission access from the Soquel Demo Forest Manager. 

Catfish ...


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

craigsj Its actually worse than what you say but Whiptastic has already de-rated the battery lower than what you suggest. A 13S-6P battery would have 78 cells. At .35 ahr the battery would be rated at 27.3 ahr. at 1008 watt hrs the battery cell are de-rated to (1008/48)/78 = .27 ahr/ cell. Its though even at that de-rated amount to charge the battery to more than 95% or discharge it below 25% so the usable is probably 760 usable watt hrs which translates to 0.2 amp hrs per cell which is only 58% of rated capacity.

Pedaling at all increases range quite a bit. The range curves for pedaling vs non pedaling are quite different. If you are not pedaling the curve is somewhat linear at first and decrease the range progressively more rapidly above about 14 mph. If you are pedaling your range does not really start to drop until you exceed the speed your pedaling would produce without power. The curves are displaced accordingly to the additional power.

I am currently looking at building a 14S-16P battery for long distance travel. The battery would be the floor of a bike trailer. I figure I can get about 150 miles at 20 mph pedaling.

Now if you really want some fluff to pick on, try doing the math on this bike. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/datonko/delfast-the-e-bike-that-can-go-for-236-miles-on-on
I don't believe they are using the newest 21700 cells. and besides 64ah is not enough to go the implied speed not pedaling.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

craigsj said:


> That's some bewildering math...
> 
> Yes, the example pack is 13s6p or 78 cells. The 21 Ah rating, though, is 3.5 Ah per cell (21/6) which is the rating of the GA cell quoted. The 13s has nothing to do with that. The 1008 Wh is 21 Ah * 48V where 48V is the nominal voltage of a 13s pack. I have no idea where you are getting ".35 ahr" or how that produces a rating of "27.3 ahr" nor why you would take 21 Ah (1008/48) and divide it by 78 cells since it's a 6p pack, not a 78p one.
> 
> ...


I appologize because I edited my post after seeing a typo mistake. The 17100 is really 21700.

By golly I think you are quite right. Somehow I got twisted around on the stats thinking miliamp meant .35 amp hours instead of 3.5 amp hours and simply multiplied by the number of cells to get something that would pass in my brain. But that should not have passed either. To make it all seem real I had to then de-rate what you could get out of a battery pack. Much better to do the math right than to use a fudge factor to correct. This would have become obvious had I worked with anything other than 52v and 48v as my fudge factors would not have been accurate.


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## dodger (Feb 10, 2004)

Commencal Meta Power

I'm probably not the typical E biker. Very fit, hardcore 'normal bike' rider who got one of these to get more downs on the recovery days. Around here, I always think of rides in terms of elevation gain as the trails are straight up or straight down in general. This holds on the E bike as well:

I get about 4,000 ft in Boost mode, 4,500 feet in Trail mode and max 27 miles/5,500 feet in Eco mode. Grades range from 10-20%. I'm 165 lb and typically pedal 'only' up to the assist level. Beyond that it just feels like a ton of work to push a heavy bike. I would imagine for heavier folks or less fit reaching the assist level could be a chore in itself.

Hope this helps...


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

ruthabagah said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have 3 ebikes and the range varies a lot depending of the models, batteries and rider.
> 
> ...


I would definitely buy you a few beers if we were neighbors.
You helped me a lot.
Over 3,000km on my Yamaha/Haibike and i never emptied my 500Wh battery, many rides over 4 hrs. I got lucky i found an unsold 2017. Also no issue. When i read about other brands i hit the jackpot.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

It's like comparing gas mileage in cars, two different drivers can get wildly different results. In reading all the posts, it appears the vast majority of us are more then satisfied with our range, I know I am. It's enough to really not be much of an issue, not as much as I feared anyway. My fatbike has a 17 AH, my Montague has a 6 AH Mini with the option to carry two 11.5 AH batteries, all 52 volt. I have never come close to getting stuck out due to battery exhaustion. A lot of my rides are unknown distances, until I do them, new places, so I err often on TOO much battery, lack of battery is not an issue at all.


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## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Specialized Kenevo - Heavy bike and lots of suspension. So, not the most efficient ebike. I have it setup fairly burly, with heavier dh oriented tires.

Typical would be 30mi/5kft for lots of ups and down style of riding (all mountain??). I have lowered all of the assist modes so i am pretty much in what stock "Eco" would be most of the time.

"XC" type I think would push to 45ish / 3-3.5kft. 

Funny once I had two back to back rides which validate. Both ended with ~ 250wh used (battery is 504wh).
Ride 1: ~ 13 miles, 2.7kft. This is a steep, fast descent followed by winding up. No flat zones
Ride 2: ~ 26 miles, 2kft. This was more XC, with no real steep ups and lots of flat or gradual. 

The biggest variable is assist level, which translates into speed for me generally. Lowering the modes helps a ton with range, but you go slower. Still higher average than I would on my normal bike. I have also found that spinning at a consistent cadence is more efficient, which makes sense.

I rarely get to the end of a ride and find I need more battery, but I am generally not doing big epics. There are a few rides or locations that would benefit from a bigger battery. If my concern was going farther with an ebike, I would look at a Levo or some of the 2020 models with 700wh coming out.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Giant E+2 Pro today - did 14 miles of hills with 1400 feet of climbing and 64kg rider. Used 39% of battery. Power level was mostly 175% boost but a few miles were 380% boost (max). This implies 35 mile range for trail use with hills.

I am expecting 50 miles from a 700Wh battery bike.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

rsilvers said:


> Giant E+2 Pro today - did 14 miles of hills with 1400 feet of climbing and 64kg rider. Used 39% of battery. Power level was mostly 175% boost but a few miles were 380% boost (max). This implies 35 mile range for trail use with hills.
> 
> I am expecting 50 miles from a 700Wh battery bike.


Do you have your production of Super Electricity?
I tought your max was 360%.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Range is over exaggerated by many sellers. The main thing is the speed your going, the wind, hills, your weight, the weight of the bike and its cargo. Other aspects are the efficiency of the motor.


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## tinfang (Sep 2, 2019)

I can confirm Powerfly 8 FS. 15-18 turbo 1500 ft, EMTB 22-25, Tour is around 27-32. Tires, wind, terrain, suspension all makes a difference. I've got a second battery now and ride 65 miles round trip to trails and do 10 miles of fun singletrack. I never come close to running out anymore.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Advertised mileage #'s are pulled completely from the air, in order to sell their ebikes.
The worst offenders are the non name brand ebikes, even worse are the chinesium ebikes that are mass produced. Even the Sondors ebike over exaggeratted their #'s. 

Everyone is different in how they pedal to assist the motor. The hard and longer you pedal the lower the Ah/distance is. Using throttle only, going up hills, going against the wind, the total weight, internal resistance of the battery, stop and go, full throttle all factors in the Wh/distance. I usually assume 20Wh/km when I build my battery for the controller and motor I select.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

2020 Levo comp demo 50 pounds.
700wh battery

Using mission control app, dialed down all 3 settings significantly.  The app and motor are a big selling point for me on a future purchase of an e-bike. The bike felt great.

Relatively fit rider. used mostly eco, some trail, and very little turbo (near the end when I got tired)

24 miles of very rocky terrain, steep climbs, fun tech descents. 2700 vertical. Battery had an 80% charge, ended with 20%

Average heart rate of 139 which is comparable to my HR on my regular bike, but was going faster on the E-bike. 

Average speed of 9.8 mph. On my regular bike, doing well to average 7mph+

Good workout, but didn't feel like i'd been hit by a mack truck, which is how I usually feel on my regular bike on the same route.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

My Hailong II battery is slowly dying after 200 charges (don't ask), and I'm keeping the watts down to around 120 max, it's actually not bad. Bought a new $450 17.5ah 850Wh battery and OMG it feels like it can go forever on one charge. Ride it 4-5 times between charging, this thing will last 10,000+ miles even if it does die after 300 charges. If someone was judicious about wattage, as in kept it around 100-250 watts the whole time, depending on the elevation conditions it could probably do 50-80 miles on one charge. I would highly recommend getting the largest Ah battery possible for your bike, not because you plan on doing epic 60 mile rides, but because you can ride it multiple times between charges and thus extend the life and also the total mileage of the battery.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

When you state mileage, you need to also state what the capacity is of the battery, like is it 500wh, 700wh, 1200wh, 1800wh. Then that range also depends on the terrain you are riding, the slope gradient, winds, how much you pedal, the total weight you are carrying, the efficiency of the motor, is there lots of stop and go like if you are in downtown or you are out in the countryside.


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## Delta_kilo (Oct 30, 2006)

csf said:


> New to ebike and only had the levo for a month or so.
> 
> Largest ride on mtb specific trails: 24 miles, 2500' vert, 2.5 hr moving, think i had 50% battery remaining using eco 25%
> 
> ...


Nice pictures! Where's this at Nevada?


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Love the pictures too, yeah the casual person wouldnt know that is an ebike at all!!!!!!


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

I kinda think range reports are basically useless. The grade and rider weight are infinitely variable between users. For example: using eco mode one of my rides is 26 miles 3700 vertical and another ride is 12 miles 3500 vertical. Both were ridden until dead battery. Can any conclusions be drawn from that data? I don't think so. The 12 mile ride was continuous output and the 26 mile ride was not continuous output. My weight is 200 lbs and I ride a turbo levo with 504wh battery. If a 90 lb woman was riding a new turbo levo with the 700wh battery I theorize that she could not drain the battery in one ride.


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## 2wls4ever (May 11, 2006)

As more data is collected by manufactures software, the information will become more accurate. For now, I have found you have to experiment. 

I ride a Pivot Shuttle with a Shimano Steps motor and 500 watt battery. 
- Bike weighs 46 pounds. 
- My weight 145 with gear
- My fitness level: Race master expert cross country
- Bike setup: 29" wheels with 2.5 minion tires at 21psi 

I have done several Downieville and Henry Coe rides on this bike pushing the limits of the battery to empty. The max I can get out of it is 26-29 miles and 5,500 ft of climbing. That is riding in eco mode as much as possible, off on flats at times, and boost only when needed on the steep stuff. Cadence at 84 - 90 rpm (the system prefers a high cadence). 

When you are testing the limits of range, best advice I can offer is to make sure your ride finishes on a true descent back home or to your car.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

I got in a late fall, high altitude (8 K, but not the climb total, the area's overall height above sea level, which reminds me unlike internal combustion motors, altitude has no effect on an electric motors, someone correct me if I'm wrong) 25 mile ride last week. Just a gravel road loop, but very isolated and super scenic. I flew in, with my light sport kit plane, and Montague folder bike BBSHD conversion with the Rohloff hub. This saved a multi hour drive over windy roads, nothing like going in a straight line to save time, even going slow like I do 85 mph. Nothing at all challenging about it other then no cell service and no people, so I took my 52 volt air compressor, 2 new tubes, and two patch kits. Naturally I didn't have any flats.Copper Basin, Idaho | The Wildlife News

I only kept track of the first 9 miles, using my 6 AH mini battery, and in PAS 1, and I got 17 watts per mile. On my fat ebike, steep trail riding, I use around 30 watts per mile. I also had two fully charged 11.5 AH batteries with me, which turned out not to have been even close to being needed, as the higher riding I thought I was going to do, was already snowed in. So, the last 8 miles or so I squandered my power in a way I never do, level 3, just so I didn't put the batteries away with a full charge, I avoid that and prefer to store them at their nominal voltage, 52. Back at the plane, one of the larger batteries was at 56 volts, the other at 55, and the mini at 52.5, I could have ridden the loop several more times if I wanted. I wear out before my battery/batteries do, or run out of time and daylight, range is never an issue.


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