# Mullet my sb165 or buy new 29er?



## Danzzz88 (Jun 10, 2020)

So I currently own an sb165 and wondering if now is the time to sell or if mulleting will give most of the rollover benefits of a 29. I currently have a PUSH 11.6 on the rear and coil in the front so wo during if I mullet the bike will I be losing out on much if anything buy going to one of the new 29ers...most of the new bikes seem to have the same get or less aggressive so I certainly won't be upgrading in terms of geometry or even travel given this bike is 180 front and 165 rear, so the only gains to be had are the rollover of 29. Will mulleting give enough of the benefits of a full 29 and will it be better for someone who is 5'8? For those that have tried the sb165 or sb150 and have also tried some of the newer bikes would you say there is much to be gained by buying a new 29er or is it better to wait a few more years?


----------



## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Danzzz88 said:


> So I currently own an sb165 and wondering if now is the time to sell or if mulleting will give most of the rollover benefits of a 29. I currently have a PUSH 11.6 on the rear and coil in the front so wo during if I mullet the bike will I be losing out on much if anything buy going to one of the new 29ers...most of the new bikes seem to have the same get or less aggressive so I certainly won't be upgrading in terms of geometry or even travel given this bike is 180 front and 165 rear, so the only gains to be had are the rollover of 29. Will mulleting give enough of the benefits of a full 29 and will it be better for someone who is 5'8? For those that have tried the sb165 or sb150 and have also tried some of the newer bikes would you say there is much to be gained by buying a new 29er or is it better to wait a few more years?


What are you looking to accomplish and what kinda trails do you typically ride? Yeah, a mullet supposedly gives you the best of both worlds, but depends what you're looking to do. I'm 5'7 and didn't like my buddy's mullet on his Bronson. Maybe cause I'm used to 27.5 but 29 felt gigantic and I had a difficult time cornering. Going straight and especially on steeper tech, rock rolls, etc it felt a lot better obviously. If I was looking for more speed and did a lotta tech, I'd consider, but I much prefer the maneuverability on smaller wheels. I'm mostly looking for jumps and riding bike parks though, so that's why it kinda depends on your intended use.


----------



## Danzzz88 (Jun 10, 2020)

This is what I'm trying to quantify...in theory the radius difference is only a few percent but then everyone raves about 29...I've never tried a 29 so just how much better is the rollover? I'm happy with the rear end of my sb165 the problem is the front jackhammering over roots even with a Smashpot coil installed. I fitted a 2.8 tyre and it felt much more comfortable but I suffered too much squirm due to relatively narrow rims. Wondering if changing to a 29 front wheel with 35mm internal will make a dramatic difference to comfort and rollover over a 27.5 wheel with 26mm internal. I've spent all the money I can on suspension and still feel the bike should absorb roots better especially at lower speeds so thinking maybe 29 is what I'm in need of and maybe I can just get away with the front rather than both ends to get most of what I'm looking for.


----------



## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Danzzz88 said:


> This is what I'm trying to quantify...in theory the radius difference is only a few percent but then everyone raves about 29...I've never tried a 29 so just how much better is the rollover? I'm happy with the rear end of my sb165 the problem is the front jackhammering over roots even with a Smashpot coil installed. I fitted a 2.8 tyre and it felt much more comfortable but I suffered too much squirm due to relatively narrow rims. Wondering if changing to a 29 front wheel with 35mm internal will make a dramatic difference to comfort and rollover over a 27.5 wheel with 26mm internal. I've spent all the money I can on suspension and still feel the bike should absorb roots better especially at lower speeds so thinking maybe 29 is what I'm in need of and maybe I can just get away with the front rather than both ends to get most of what I'm looking for.


The difference is definitely substantial. I was actually surprised how noticable it was. There's obviously a lot of variables, but yes, it's significant. Give one a test ride and you'll immediately see. 

One thing that surprised me though was how good the 29 was at jumping. I thought I'd have a tough time getting used to it, but in my limited time riding it, we got 6-7 jump lines at Killington Bike Park. First run I just took it easy, but after that it was full send with no issues whatsoever. The tech stuff, it was VERY noticable, but where I ran into trouble was my cornering. That's probably my biggest weakness on a bike, so perhaps the problem was exacerbated, but especially coming out of my turns with speed, I really had a difficult time with it. I fell once on it, and that messed with my head and my confidence was gone, so my buddy and I switched back ... But yes, for what you're looking for it'll definitely make a significant difference.


----------



## Danzzz88 (Jun 10, 2020)

Ahh that's good to know, feel like I've finally got an unbiased opinion and know what the crack is with 29.. I've read all sorts from, it's only a few percent bigger, to it isn't that noticeable all the way to it's 2 or 3 times more comfortable and better at rolling but 27.5 is way more agile but these were all from people that either disliked 29 or only ride 29 so it's good to get a positive opinion on their pros from someone who prefers 27.5.. I must say I love the agility of 26 over 27.5 even but after spending so much on a bike and expecting it to almost hover over everything I expected a bit more from it especially after trying a few downhill bikes. Maybe 29 on the front will take the edge off and I can keep the rear 27.5 for agility as the 11.6 does a great job at the rear end considering it's shorter travel than the front too. Will take into account your experience though and consider slamming my bars right down so the front doesn't feel like it's washing out or too high to get enough weight over the front.


----------



## DachshundBiker (Aug 30, 2021)

It's simple if you are big get big wheels and vice a versa.


----------



## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

i did notice the additional weight on the front. for me, heavier fork, heavier wheel, heavier tire. monster trucking was definitely easier.
i went from a 2020 fox 36 factory 180mm 37mm offset to a 2021 fox 38 factory 170mm 44mm offset(and tested a 160mm) . i'll leave out the big differences between these two forks. im 5'4 and ride a size small.

i def noticed more wheel flop in the parking lot and while riding. really sharp turns are tougher. while cornering the wheel flop didn't bother me so much. i hit a bunch of PRs on trails with consecutive corners(not 90 degree corners). the bike gets pretty slacked out. i think the geo charts put the HA at 62.5 degrees with a 170mm 29er fork. 160mm travel kinda brings it back in line with the stock HA of 63.5. 

bb height increases a touch which is helpful. 

side note, on the flattest part of my garage, i measured my stock setup HA and it's 62.5 and not 63.5 like the stock geo chart.

overall it feels like you're in a laz-y-boy couch. very upright pedaling position. you def will want to lower the stem spacers(or overall stack height) to get more weight/grip on the front. i normally run 15-20mm of spacers under my stem with my stock setup, but with the mullet, i ran 5-10mm of spacers under the stem. same headset cover, stem, and handlebars.

if you are in the zone, and ON the front, it'll monster truck and ride awesome. sometimes i ride like **** and just dont feel connected with the bike, this is when it kinda sucks. but thats probably more MY problem than the mullet.

because the bike is slightly rotated more towards the rear, i did feel like i was bottoming out more and my saddle was hitting my rear tire during full compressions. this might be because i run a low stack height saddle, and my dropper is installed all the way in, to the hilt. so no dropper post sticking out of my seat tube aside from the dropper collar/seal. i have short legs, so i HAVE to have it this way or else i can't reach my pedals. also looks the best.

we've talked on the pinkbike forums before on the sb165 group.

i ended up selling my fox 38 29er fork and currently back on the stock fork. 29er made me so fast, i was hitting rocks so hard that one of them knicked my kashima and that really made my OCD go nuts. so i sold it. im debating on going back to the mullet setup. i was hoping fox would improve something for 2022, but it doesn't look like they changed anything. plus i was running a borrowed wheel from a friend and eventually needed to give that wheel back.


----------



## Danzzz88 (Jun 10, 2020)

I'm wondering if I can cram a 29 wheel into the 27.5 ZEB...even with a 2.8 plus there was loads of clearance so thinking I might be able to get away with it just to try it on some mellow terrain where I don't risk bottoming the fork crown on the tyre. So I am guessing overall the bike feels massively different with the 29 front, some things positive, some things negative but it sounds like it is certainly big enough of a change to warrant experimenting with at least and won't be a boat load of cash spent for something I will barely notice the difference. Do you intend to keep the sb165, have you tried any of the newer bikes recently, any you find are more capable in the rough?


----------



## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

I’ve swapped back and forth between my SB150 and my mate’s mulleted SB165 a few times, I still prefer my SB150. The SB165 seemed to flop a bit in the turns and felt unbalanced to me, I think it slacks the HA out too much IMO. I definitely prefer the full 29er over the mullet, I’m 5’6 so a bit shorter than you too.


----------



## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

i haven't tried any newer bikes lately. but im also 5'4 and many shops and people dont ride size small. so it's rare if i find any other small bikes around. plus when i demo and ride other people's bikes, i never ride it 100% like i'd ride my own bike.

i do intend on keeping the sb165. it's my only bike and i love it. i dont even know what i'd buy right now if i sold my bike. there isn't a bike that i really want. maybe a mullet ebike? i was hoping cascade would make a mullet link for the sb165, but they dont plan on making any products for the sb165.

i heard that a few of the employees at yeti have mulletted their sb165 and love it.


----------



## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

OU812 said:


> I’ve swapped back and forth between my SB150 and my mate’s mulleted SB165 a few times, I still prefer my SB150. The SB165 seemed to flop a bit in the turns and felt unbalanced to me, I think it slacks the HA out too much IMO. I definitely prefer the full 29er over the mullet, I’m 5’6 so a bit shorter than you too.


do you remember what travel and offset the mullet had?


----------



## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

useport80 said:


> do you remember what travel and offset the mullet had?


It’s got a 170mm 44 offset Fox 38 on it, I think if I were going to build one I’d go with the 160mm. I was told with the 160mm it would be closer to the stock HA, maybe that would help with the floppy feeling.


----------



## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

useport80 said:


> do you remember what travel and offset the mullet had?


Try a Mezzer- can change travel in 10min in 10mm increments up to 180, and talk about small bump tune!!


----------



## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

I recently switched to a 29 bike after years of riding 27.5. The DH performance wasn't as drastically different as I expected. Sure it feels a little smoother on small bumps, but you still feel the bigger bumps. Single tracks will feel a tiny bit narrower if that makes sense. My front wheel always seem a bit closer to the edge of the trail due it's larger size.

Where I see the bigger difference is in the pedal efficiency. The momentum and rollover of 29 wheels is undisputed. But I think a mullet will compromise some of this efficiency improvement. 

So from my limited observations, it's mainly 27.5 -> mullet guys who like the change. I've seen very few 29 -> mullet guys like the change.


----------



## julianw (Sep 23, 2021)

OU812 said:


> It’s got a 170mm 44 offset Fox 38 on it, I think if I were going to build one I’d go with the 160mm. I was told with the 160mm it would be closer to the stock HA, maybe that would help with the floppy feeling.


if you want to keep your head angle and bottom bracket height the same, find the current Axle To Crown height of your current fork, or whatever the OEM fork the bike was designed for. then find a 29er fork with a shorter AtoC height to account for the height difference when you have a 29 front wheel. here's a rough calculation: 29-27.5 inches = 1.5 inches diameter. so radius is 1.5"/2 = .75 inches = 19 mm. so your 29er fork has to have an AtoC height that is 19 mm shorter than your 27.5 fork. 

when i looked at some 29 forks vs the 542 mm AtoC my bike was designed to, it seemed like i have to give up 30 mm of travel to mullet my hardtail, so that kind of killed that idea. unless i get an angle headset to steepen the angle.


----------



## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

I think a 160 mullet would be a better bike in most situations.

You can fit a 29" wheel in a 27.5 fork as an experiment as long as the tire is under 2.5, but it better be 44 offset because a 29" wheel in 37 is a floppy mess.


----------



## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Danzzz88 said:


> Ahh that's good to know, feel like I've finally got an unbiased opinion and know what the crack is with 29.. I've read all sorts from, it's only a few percent bigger, to it isn't that noticeable all the way to it's 2 or 3 times more comfortable and better at rolling but 27.5 is way more agile but these were all from people that either disliked 29 or only ride 29 so it's good to get a positive opinion on their pros from someone who prefers 27.5.. I must say I love the agility of 26 over 27.5 even but after spending so much on a bike and expecting it to almost hover over everything I expected a bit more from it especially after trying a few downhill bikes. Maybe 29 on the front will take the edge off and I can keep the rear 27.5 for agility as the 11.6 does a great job at the rear end considering it's shorter travel than the front too. Will take into account your experience though and consider slamming my bars right down so the front doesn't feel like it's washing out or too high to get enough weight over the front.


I know what you mean about floating over everything. My enduro/DH is a Mach 6, and for some reason I honestly thought I'd magically turn into a pro!! And yeah, completely unbiased. I LOVE all bikes. Always has a love affair since I was 5 riding BMX. Hardtails, single speeds, fat bikes, dirt jumpers and even e-bikes. I like all of em and wish I had the time and cash to enjoy every discipline. Only reason I didn't prefer the 29 was cause of my height. If I was taller I'd definitely get one. But yeah, anyone who says there's no noticable difference is lying cause they never rode one. You won't float over anything, but it'll be a lot easier on tech.


----------



## Danzzz88 (Jun 10, 2020)

Tbh after switching to a Wild Enduro 2.4 from a DHF 2.8 I think I much prefer the plus tyres...they seem so much more compliant and although they squirmed a bit on my narrow rims, the Michelins don't seem much better in that regard when run at the same psi and with thicker side walls and are much narrower. Ideally I think I would prefer a wider wheelset with 27.5 plus over 29 as it offers similar rollover with better comfort but for some reason the whole industry is against plus and I don't know why. In my experience they roll better and feel massively more comfortable and although they squirm a bit more....at low psi the normal thinner tyres also squirm but with much less compliance. I really hope plus gains traction again.


----------



## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Bikeventures said:


> I recently switched to a 29 bike after years of riding 27.5. The DH performance wasn't as drastically different as I expected. Sure it feels a little smoother on small bumps, but you still feel the bigger bumps. Single tracks will feel a tiny bit narrower if that makes sense. My front wheel always seem a bit closer to the edge of the trail due it's larger size.
> 
> Where I see the bigger difference is in the pedal efficiency. The momentum and rollover of 29 wheels is undisputed. But I think a mullet will compromise some of this efficiency improvement.
> 
> So from my limited observations, it's mainly 27.5 -> mullet guys who like the change. I've seen very few 29 -> mullet guys like the change.


Funny you mentioned how the trail felt narrower. I had the same observation and my buddies thought I was losing my mind. I know exactly what you mean though and glad I'm not alone!


----------



## PattD (Feb 22, 2004)

Late to the party but I have all setups on the list: 140mm travel 29er, 170mm travel mullet, 29er hardtail w/145mm front, and 170mm 27.5 with 2.8 front on 35mm wide IRD Enve.

27.5 is a lot more maneuverable and if you're on the shorter end of the spectrum, stick with the 2.8 front tire on a proper width rim. It allows you proper pressure and will eliminate that dreadful squirm from too narrow a rim. 35mm rim IMO is the narrowest I recommend. You cut the diameter difference almost in half but also add the width of the bigger tire which helps float on top of more stuff rather than in it.

Enjoy the ride!


----------

