# Another XTR M960 SS conversion...



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I pick up a used M960 on eBay for $86 shipped D ), hacked it up, and have sent it off for black ceramic coating. The crank arms started out at 537 grams, and were trimmed to 500 grams. The total with BB and rings should add up to around 640 grams. It'll get one of ISAR's aluminum chain rings. All told, it'll be about 170 grams lighter than my current Hone crankset, and a lot prettier.



















I'll post some more pictures up when it get's back, early week after next.


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## hatake (Jul 16, 2004)

Nice find! Post up post-coating pictures please! More importantly, is 960 really SS worthy (stiff)?


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

hatake said:


> ... More importantly, is 960 really SS worthy (stiff)?


most definitely :thumbsup:

did that to a set for my racer-x SS.....tre'-sexblingtastico!


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

hatake said:


> Nice find! Post up post-coating pictures please! More importantly, is 960 really SS worthy (stiff)?


Um. Yes.

The M960 is as stiff as anything out there.


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## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

I'm curious... how much does it cost to powder coat a crankset? I sanded off the XTR finish and have been running them raw, but I've been thinking about sending them out for a clearcoat.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Saw a bead blasted finish that looked real nice on a set of M960. As far as PC don't think it would be that expensive.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

My local powder coating place quoted me a price of $80. Having them ceramic coated through Shawnee is the better option.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I've received the chainring for ISAR, and I'm quite impressed with it. The finish work is great, and it only weighs 30 grams (compared to 40g for a Shimano 32t). It's damn sexy and a great value. Once I'm sure it mounts up without issue, I'll order at least one spare.


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## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

I've been running a blackspire mono veloce with great success. My experience has been that they're resonobly light and durable. I've got one spare, and I might pick up a couple more because I'm worried that they'll stop making them at some point... Which virtually leads me into rant mode.

I _love_ this crankset. I think its the best design out there: Its light, its stiff, its easily removeable, and its sexy. What I _absolutely hate_ is that Shimano decided that it'd be a good idea to use a proprietary bolt pattern on these. I mean, really... whats the point?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I agree it's the best design Shimano's made, period. The bearing preload and crank arm attachment system is much better than the new XTR's, and I think it's much better looking. The one piece spider and arm is beautiful. 

Like you, the proprietary BCD really pissed me off, however, there are several ways to get chainrings for it aside from just Blackspire, which I feel really helps mitigate that one draw back. They're available from Blackspire, ISAR, and Mattias. I'm sure there are other people making them as well.


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## tomimcmillar (Oct 27, 2005)

bad mechanic said:


> I agree it's the best design Shimano's made, period. The bearing preload and crank arm attachment system is much better than the new XTR's, and I think it's much better looking. The one piece spider and arm is beautiful.
> 
> Like you, the proprietary BCD really pissed me off, however, there are several ways to get chainrings for it aside from just Blackspire, which I feel really helps mitigate that one draw back. They're available from Blackspire, ISAR, and Mattias. I'm sure there are other people making them as well.


I've got plenty of 32 & 34t in Stainless...


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

The XTR is my favorite four bolt crank, as it is about the only one that makes beefy elegant.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Word. I don't like how angular the new XTR is. It just looks clunky.


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## ISuckAtRiding (Jul 7, 2006)

the m960 is one of my favorite cranks, cant wait to see it after ceramic coating. Thanks again for choosing my ring.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I received the crank back from ceramic coat! Shawnee (Crazy8) did a terrific job with the ceramic coating and it looks terrific. He put on a satin finish, and the after talking with him I didn't put a polished finish on it before coating, and it came out slightly textured which I really like. The rougher texture apparently also makes the ceramic much stronger, so definitely a win-win. I did the prep work since I enjoy working with metal and to save some money, but Crazy8 is happy to do it for you for a nominal fee. A huge recommendation for Shawnee.










Weight for the crank arms with preload bolt and titanium pinch bolts is excellent at 503g.










ISAR's chainring mounted up beautifully without any issues and looks really good:



















The total without the bottom bracket came out at 541g, which I'm extremely happy about:










Working with both ISAR and Shawnee (Crazy8) was a great experience. They both did excellent work for a good price, and stayed in communication with me the whole time. I highly recommend both.

Total money spent without shipping:

XTR M960 crankset - $71
ISAR chainring - $35
ceramic coating (I did prep work) - $100

Total -------- $206

It is worth every penny doing this, and this should be your *first* option if you're looking for a SS crankset.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

bad mechanic said:


> ISAR's chainring mounted up beautifully without any issues and looks really good:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DAYUM!....SAHweet!


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## ISuckAtRiding (Jul 7, 2006)

bad mechanic said:


> I received the crank back from ceramic coat! Shawnee (Crazy8) did a terrific job with the ceramic coating and it looks terrific. He put on a satin finish, and the after talking with him I didn't put a polished finish on it before coating, and it came out slightly textured which I really like. The rougher texture apparently also makes the ceramic much stronger, so definitely a win-win. I did the prep work since I enjoy working with metal and to save some money, but Crazy8 is happy to do it for you for a nominal fee. A huge recommendation for Shawnee.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First off, that looks great, good call on the ceramic coating, nice work Shawnee.
Secondly, thanks for the good review, much appreciated 
I agree, that is still my favorite crankset, with or without my rings. They just work well, and they have personality. It's deffinately not your average looking crankset. Plus, you just cant go wrong with that weight.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

Looks sweet. Hoping to order mine soon.


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

I see the arms were delivered. They look good with ISAR's black anodized ring mounted. Assembled weight is nice and light too. 

Like ISAR said I appreciate your business, photo's, and review, bad mechanic. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about the performance of this custom crank-set after some hard rides. 

Like your work with the rings and cogs ISAR. I'm going to have to order a couple and see how they take ceramic coating.


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## ISuckAtRiding (Jul 7, 2006)

crazy8 said:


> I see the arms were delivered. They look good with ISAR's black anodized ring mounted. Assembled weight is nice and light too.
> 
> Like ISAR said I appreciate your business, photo's, and review, bad mechanic. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about the performance of this custom crank-set after some hard rides.
> 
> Like your work with the rings and cogs ISAR. I'm going to have to order a couple and see how they take ceramic coating.


Thanks! i'd love to see your coating on my stuff, i think that would be the icing on the cake. Expecially with the aluminum cogs and rings... light weight with decent wear life. We should put together a Shawnee-ized Homebrewed line .


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

crazy8 said:


> Can't wait to hear what you have to say about the performance of this custom crank-set after some hard rides.


Well, so long as they don't loosen up on me or fall off the bike, I'll be happy! To me, a crankset is like headset where, if it works well, you simply don't think about it.


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

Sounds very interesting. I'll be in touch with you soon.



ISuckAtRiding said:


> Thanks! i'd love to see your coating on my stuff, i think that would be the icing on the cake. Expecially with the aluminum cogs and rings... light weight with decent wear life. We should put together a Shawnee-ized Homebrewed line .


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## 1-bar (Jun 10, 2004)

Those cranks looks sweet, good job! Those XTR cranks are also way lighter than my ENOs with a TI bb and I have to admit, I prefer the outboard bearing to my square taper...


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## -Muz R- (Oct 18, 2006)

1-bar,

With the XTR BB thrown in, the cut 960's come in at about 640g which is 70 grams below your Eno's which isnt too bad, I thought it would be alot more myself.

I have a set of cut & polished 960's and with the Blackspire 32T ring comes in at 563 grams without BB. I had and old pair laying around so it was and easy choice to go at them with the saw.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I can see this becoming another square taper vs. external argument, but square taper has killed many of my crank arms, and I'm always needing to check to make sure they're still tight. With Shimano's system (don't get me started on the new XTR crankset) you can tighten it down and then never worry about it again. It is, by far, the best system out there. 

My bottom bracket also spins very smoothly, and has been for two years now. My bottom bracket shell is faced, and I've replaced the bearings with Enduros.

So, with a converted M960 you get a crankset which is stiffer, has a better attachment method, is lighter, and is about $100 cheaper. In my opinion, it also looks better.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2009)

I wonder if any crank arm manufacturer is reading this. I would freaking hope so.


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## ISuckAtRiding (Jul 7, 2006)

-Muz R- said:


> 1-bar,
> 
> With the XTR BB thrown in, the cut 960's come in at about 640g which is 70 grams below your Eno's which isnt too bad, I thought it would be alot more myself.
> 
> I have a set of cut & polished 960's and with the Blackspire 32T ring comes in at 563 grams without BB. I had and old pair laying around so it was and easy choice to go at them with the saw.


you also have to add some weight to the ENO's because i dont think he has the crank arm bolts in the pics. The bolts plus extractors would add some signifigant weight if they're steel.


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## 1-bar (Jun 10, 2004)

ISuckAtRiding said:


> you also have to add some weight to the ENO's because i dont think he has the crank arm bolts in the pics. The bolts plus extractors would add some signifigant weight if they're steel.


Thanks for rubbing in the extra weight difference rft: 
If I can source a nice M960 crank, I will be contacting you...


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## ISuckAtRiding (Jul 7, 2006)

1-bar said:


> Thanks for rubbing in the extra weight difference rft:
> If I can source a nice M960 crank, I will be contacting you...


haha sorry i didnt mean it like that. The WI crank is deffinately tits, i wish i had the loot for one. 
BTW, there are rings out there that fit the ENO and are a few grams lighter, and made of stronger material.


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## playdead (Apr 17, 2009)

that black looks p i m p


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## -Muz R- (Oct 18, 2006)

ISAR,

Out of curiousity, what would your Ti 32T ring weigh in a M960 102mm BCD?

Cheers, Murray.


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## ISuckAtRiding (Jul 7, 2006)

-Muz R- said:


> ISAR,
> 
> Out of curiousity, what would your Ti 32T ring weigh in a M960 102mm BCD?
> 
> Cheers, Murray.


I havent weighed one in that exact size, but I would say 45g. Ti is about 50% heavier than aluminum, and the aluminum is 30g.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

A good rule of thumb is:
titanium is 2/3 heavy as steel
aluminum is 1/2 heavy as titanium, or 1/3 heavy as steel
carbon is 1/2 heavy as aluminum

So a steel part which weighs 100g equals:
67g in titanium
33g in aluminum
16g in carbon


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## ISuckAtRiding (Jul 7, 2006)

bad mechanic said:


> A good rule of thumb is:
> titanium is 2/3 heavy as steel
> aluminum is 1/2 heavy as titanium, or 1/3 heavy as steel
> carbon is 1/2 heavy as aluminum
> ...


that's a little off, the density of 6al4v ti is .160 lbs per cubic inch, the density of 17-4ph stainless steel is .280 lbs per cubic inch, and the density of 7075-t6 aluminum is .104 lbs per cubic inch. I make my lightening pockets a bit bigger in the ti rings, so it works out to right about 30g for aluminum vs 45g for ti.
Of course you're probably right for other types of aluminum, my guess is 7075 is a bit heavier.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

ISuckAtRiding said:


> that's a little off, the density of 6al4v ti is .160 lbs per cubic inch, the density of 17-4ph stainless steel is .280 lbs per cubic inch, and the density of 7075-t6 aluminum is .104 lbs per cubic inch. I make my lightening pockets a bit bigger in the ti rings, so it works out to right about 30g for aluminum vs 45g for ti.
> Of course you're probably right for other types of aluminum, my guess is 7075 is a bit heavier.


Oh, I'm know it's off, but I find it close enough when roughly estimating the weight savings of two identical parts.


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## campredcloudbikes (Feb 22, 2008)

what is the BCD of the granny gear on the M960 crank?
Can the 102 BCD holes be filed out to fit 104 BCD rings?

The ceramic coated cranks look incredible!


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## -Muz R- (Oct 18, 2006)

Not sure about drilling out to 104 but Im pretty sure the BCD of the granny is 64mm


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm waiting to see the crank on the bike. Depending on how sexy it is, I might have to give up my five bolt love affair and track down XTR crank. That black is beautiful.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

umarth said:


> I'm waiting to see the crank on the bike. Depending on how sexy it is, I might have to give up my five bolt love affair and track down XTR crank. That black is beautiful.


This is the best picture I have of it on the bike right now. I might try and take a better picture later.










EDIT: A couple closeups of it on the bike:


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## hatake (Jul 16, 2004)

Very classy. How did you get that perfect tension? Half link and luck? Or...what is that thing on your rear drop out?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

hatake said:


> Very classy. How did you get that perfect tension? Half link and luck?


White Eno Eccentric rear hub. It works the treat for making a proper single speed out of older frames. Due to some related issues, I also use a half link (you can see it in the pictures) when running the 18t freewheel, but don't when running the 16t freewheel.



hatake said:


> Or...what is that thing on your rear drop out?


On the left dropout? It's a 22mm Hayes disc brake mount. It's an obsolete standard used in the mid to late 90s.


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## hatake (Jul 16, 2004)

bad mechanic said:


> White Eno Eccentric rear hub.


Gotcha. Yes it looks very clean.



bad mechanic said:


> On the left dropout? It's a 22mm Hayes disc brake mount. It's an obsolete standard used in the mid to late 90s.


I was referring to the hunk of metal on quick release - or maybe not a quick release is it. Either way nice classy SS build!


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

hatake said:


> I was referring to the hunk of metal on quick release - or maybe not a quick release is it. Either way nice classy SS build!


Nope, the Eno is a bolt on.


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## flafonta (Feb 6, 2008)

Is anyone selling modified Shimano M960 cranks?

I thought I had seen someone/store selling polished/modified M960 cranks, but I can't find it again  (and yes I searched  )


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Try here : http://www.ceramikoat.com/

Board member Crazy8 .


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## UKjack (Aug 26, 2005)

Nice post, echoed my sentiments about the crank being the best one ever made.

http://burlycross.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/shimano-1x9-setup-time-to-get-serious/

You've done a much neater metalwork job around the bolt holes that I did though, although I have to admit I prefer the polished look.
I have thought about getting it chromed in future.
Will be interesting to see how durable the ceramic coating is in use.

And can anybody put up a link to those Ti rings please Cheers


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

The ceramic coat has proven to be incredibly durable. I ride kind of duck footed, so any cranks I use get polished from my shoe rubbing them, but the ceramic hasn't shown _any_ wear yet. It's good stuff.


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## ISuckAtRiding (Jul 7, 2006)

UKjack said:


> And can anybody put up a link to those Ti rings please Cheers


http://www.homebrewedcomponents.com/store.php?crn=43&rn=434&action=show_detail :thumbsup:


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

I just purchased a second set of 960's which will be going under the knife.

First set came out like this, if I keep the second set they'll almost certainly sport an ISAR ring.


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Good read for me *

Thanks bad mechanic for your comments about the durability of the coating. I'm asked about the durability several times a week and all I can tell is the tech info and knowing I still hadn't answered the question.

The next time I'm asked I'll have your post in mtbr as a link. It answers the question,"How durable is the coating", very well. I hope you continue to post updates with use.



bad mechanic said:


> The ceramic coat has proven to be incredibly durable. I ride kind of duck footed, so any cranks I use get polished from my shoe rubbing them, but the ceramic hasn't shown _any_ wear yet. It's good stuff.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

It may sound stupid, "Ooh, it held up to my shoes!!!", but you have to understand the finish on my cranks never lasts more than a couple dozen rides, and my right shoe even took the edge off the ridge on my Hone cranks. When I used to ride downhill, I needed to wear ankle guards because otherwise the inside of my ankle would end up bruised and raw. I enjoy that my cranks still look good.


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## Life and Liberty (Feb 16, 2009)

I love those schwinn homegrowns. Great bikes.

I just did something similar with an Airbourne, but i don't have the fancy bits. Enjoy.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Sorry to dig this thread up, I was thinking of setting up a set of 960s single speed for my DH bike. Do you guys know anyone who run these on there DH bikes? Will ISR trim the tabs? Oh and that is a beautiful Homegrown. I have a gold one that I love, doesn't have the machined chainstay yoke though.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I don't think the 960 would work well for DH unless you run it with a chainguide which uses a taco instead of a bash ring.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

bad mechanic said:


> I don't think the 960 would work well for DH unless you run it with a chainguide which uses a taco instead of a bash ring.


I think it would hold up as well as anything else out there, run it with an MRP G2SL or similar.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

yeah I was thinking about cutting down the tabs and then running a g2.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Nice Cranks! Put my new XT's to shame!


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

A modified XTR960 is a good choice for a DH crank there stong, light, and look like nothing else. I know several DH riders who luv them.


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## doctapow (Jul 8, 2006)

I was thinking about trying this on my 1x9 setup, but my current Truvativ crankset is set up with a bashring on the outer mainly to help keep the chain on.

It doesn't seem like the M960SS mod would be compatible with a bashring? Does anyone have any problems with losing their chain without one? Or is that less a problem on SS than on 1x9?

thanks,


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

doctapow, do you fancy running a taco guard style chainguide? It would spare the spider from impact loads -- I for sure wouldn't want to take any hits with such exquisite crankset!


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## doctapow (Jul 8, 2006)

J. Random Psycho said:


> doctapow, do you fancy running a taco guard style chainguide? It would spare the spider from impact loads -- I for sure wouldn't want to take any hits with such exquisite crankset!


yeah, I guess that is an option - for some reason i'm not crazy about those.


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

Instead of modifying the XTR960 arms you can leave the outer tabs intact, installing a bash Ring God from Blackspire then mount a 102bcd SS ring on the middle tabs. With a SS and the chainline not changing you don't have the problems of a 1 X 9 setup. It's not a issue.


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## doctapow (Jul 8, 2006)

crazy8 said:


> Instead of modifying the XTR960 arms you can leave the outer tabs intact, installing a bash Ring God from Blackspire then mount a 102bcd SS ring on the middle tabs. With a SS and the chainline not changing you don't have the problems of a 1 X 9 setup. It's not a issue.


that would be similar to what I am running now - with an Ngear Jumpstop on the inside and a middle ring/bash combo on 104bcd holes. I wasn't sure if there were bash rings available for the M960 - either sharing the middle tabs or using the outers.
Even leaving the outer tabs, it's likely that this would be a lighter, stiffer crank than the FireX GXP setup I have now, and cheaper than new XTR 970...

thanks, I'll take a look at Blackspire website.


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## 2Slo4U (Jan 12, 2004)

doctapow..
thanks said:


> I didn't read the entire thread but....check out Homebrewed Components. He makes some great stuff for the 960. I have his chainring and bashguard on mine. Great products and you can customize...


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

bad mechanic said:


> It may sound stupid, "Ooh, it held up to my shoes!!!", but you have to understand the finish on my cranks never lasts more than a couple dozen rides, and my right shoe even took the edge off the ridge on my Hone cranks. When I used to ride downhill, I needed to wear ankle guards because otherwise the inside of my ankle would end up bruised and raw. I enjoy that my cranks still look good.


I was looking for another post and ran across this thread and your impression of the ceramic in May. How is it holding with 7 more months use? By your desciption of the way your foot contact's the arm has to be a good test. You've surely rubbed through by now !! but I would like to know how much.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Yup, it finally rubbed through in a couple spots, but I'm surprised it took this long. I've attached a picture of how it looks now, and one of my old cranks so you can what it's up against.

My modified M960 is one of my favorite pieces of kit, it really is. It looks elegant, it's light, and something I just never have to worry about.


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## LuckyCharm4x4 (Dec 16, 2011)

Awesome build thread and information. Do you by any chance know the original weight of the crank assembly, including BB and all the cogs? I wonder how much weight you actually cut off.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

You're looking at about 810g actual for the crankset, rings, and BB. Mine, with BB, is 641g, so I lost 169g.


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## EightySixed (Apr 14, 2011)

I Still don't have enough posts to send messages so I'm forced to ask here, anybody care to give me a little guidance as to how to cut the tabs on the 960 to turn it into a SS crankset? I have a great set I just stripped off of a Voodoo Aizen with the intention of just running the crankset on my SS, the extra space looks silly though. Is there a company that I can pay to cut the excess or is it best to just do it myself? 

The cranksets on here all look so so beautiful too... Yowza!


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## MTB Pharm (Mar 10, 2007)

EightySixed said:


> I Still don't have enough posts to send messages so I'm forced to ask here, anybody care to give me a little guidance as to how to cut the tabs on the 960 to turn it into a SS crankset? I have a great set I just stripped off of a Voodoo Aizen with the intention of just running the crankset on my SS, the extra space looks silly though. Is there a company that I can pay to cut the excess or is it best to just do it myself?
> 
> The cranksets on here all look so so beautiful too... Yowza!


The first page of this thread has some nice pics of the process. Futon River Crossing has some nice photos starting at #6. http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/jeff-jones-960-xtr-510632.html

I did the mod and it was pretty easy. I haven't yet polished them up. There are little bits of extra material you can also remove if you are trying to save every gram, like grinding down the small ring mounts and flattening out the spider.

I believe you can get Crazy8 to do all the work AND coat it for you for a price.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

If you don't mind spending a little money, just send the crank to Crazy8 and let him modify and the ceramic coat the crankset.


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## minh (May 23, 2004)

crazy8 does great work:

on the 1x9 (I just threw it on- haven't adjusted the chain guide yet):









one for the SS:


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

I appreciate the comments and linking EightySixed to my biz. 

Minh, Nice photo's of your bike. The Ti and Silver ring look good with the blue frame.

I had a bike shop contact me last week about using a Paul chainkeeper on a 960SS. They were having a difficult time adjusting it on a 32t ring. Let me know if you have any problem, would like to know for next time I'm asked.


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## EightySixed (Apr 14, 2011)

I got a former RockShox team mechanic to chop it and polish it for me, I help him out a lot so he did it for free. Its way rough compared to your guys cranks but when I have the money I'll get in contact with the aforementioned to have her snazzed up. When I figure it out I'll post a picture of it on the Voodoo. 21.5 lb 29er. Not bad. I just hope the scandium lasts me through the winter..


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

Quick q to the 960 experts - any oval rings available for these? I have current XTR and a goldtec 34 oval. I love the oval ring for SS. I'd get some XTRs and modify them but going back to round rings doesn't appeal so much. I'd pay for custom/ti if it meant getting the right ring that lasted a while.


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## minh (May 23, 2004)

crazy8 said:


> I had a bike shop contact me last week about using a Paul chainkeeper on a 960SS. They were having a difficult time adjusting it on a 32t ring. Let me know if you have any problem, would like to know for next time I'm asked.


crazy8- I got the Paul chainkeeper to work fine but moved it higher to clear the arms- I think there is still enough there to keep the chain in place:


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## SlowPokePete (Mar 27, 2006)

Mine ... with HBC Ti 34.










SPP


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

The Paul keeper looks to be cover the chain with good clearance for the spider. The shop that called was using a Paul's for a 960SS on a Niner carbon with EBB. He said there was a problem at the tube mount on this particular frame. I suggested using the e-type and didn't hear anything back...what do you think of the silver on the ring? If you ever want to clean the ceramic use some WD-40 on a rag works great.



minh said:


> crazy8- I got the Paul chainkeeper to work fine but moved it higher to clear the arms- I think there is still enough there to keep the chain in place:
> 
> View attachment 722589


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

Dumb question: but will a standard external bb tool (park bbt9 I think) work with the xtr bb? It should, but I've seen xtr "specific" tools online.


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## smac (Sep 25, 2009)

rob1035 said:


> Dumb question: but will a standard external bb tool (park bbt9 I think) work with the xtr bb? It should, but I've seen xtr "specific" tools online.


Yup, that will work for the XTR BB for the 960.


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## EightySixed (Apr 14, 2011)

All externals use the same tool. Cheap way is the park hand tool. Better way is to buy a Chris king tool that will fit on your ratchet. I've slipped that damn park tool off the teeth of bbs a few times and it really gouges them. Lesson learned.


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

That's what I thought, but thanks for confirming guys

Rob


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## gearwhine (Aug 20, 2009)

EightySixed said:


> All externals use the same tool. Cheap way is the park hand tool. Better way is to buy a Chris king tool that will fit on your ratchet. I've slipped that damn park tool off the teeth of bbs a few times and it really gouges them. Lesson learned.


The park BBT-19 is nearly the exact same thing, and can be found locally for probably $10+ cheaper than the CK tool.

I personally like the BBT-9 better. Easier to deal with, and I have never had it slip off. It also includes the preload nut tool with it.

I have to use the BBT-19 on my downhill bike due to clearance issues though....so yeah, if you have a few bikes, both tools that do the same thing are helpful.


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

Just got mine installed. However they seem really tight in the stand. Is this normal or did I do something wrong with the install? Pictures soon...


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

If you used an xtr BB I wouldn't worry about it too much, they can be a little tight. Give it a little time to break in. However, double check you have the right number of spacers and on the right side. Should be two drive side and one non drive for a 68mm bb and one drive side for a 73mm bb.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Try spinning driveside crank with zero axial preload -- is resistance the same?
Has your BB shell been faced?


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

lacking a spacer, so that's probably it.


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## dualsport650 (Nov 4, 2004)

Here's mine that Crazy8 did about 6 month ago:










Running a HBC Ti ring too. I like it!!! :thumbsup:

My XTR 960 were thrashed and Crazy8 made them look better than new.


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## hurtknee (Jul 21, 2009)

Hey guys, Anyone running one of these cranks with a Chris king bb and using the o-rings between the crank arms and bb.I'm running this setup without the o-rings and wandering if I really need them since I'm having a hard time finding them. Thanks.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

hurtknee, I guess it's the 24 mm ID rubberized metal rings that are missing from your cranks? Look at enduroforkseals.com for FSA 24 mm ID, 1 mm thick metal-elastomer spacers, I once used them as a replacement in a similar setup. They cost like $2.5 each.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

#10 in the drawing?


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

You can use 25mm x 1.5mm o-rings in place of the flat factory seal. The plastic dust cover protects the bearing but the moisture can cause corrosion of the axle which I've seen many times.


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## hurtknee (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for the replies guys.Love my cranks crazy8 you do excellent work.Yes driverbob it's #10 but when I google the part# It doesn't return much.I ordered some m960 o-ring B-holder but they didn't seem quite what I remembered the orginals to be. Think I will find some o-rings that crazy8 reccomends.Thanks much.


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks hurtknee, Shimano started off with a o-ring holder which went under a standard 25x1mm o-ring and switched to the flat metal/rubber seals in the later production, so if you have the holders all the better for o-rings. Also the machined set in the arms is different for both.


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## minh (May 23, 2004)

hurtknee said:


> Hey guys, Anyone running one of these cranks with a Chris king bb and using the o-rings between the crank arms and bb.I'm running this setup without the o-rings and wandering if I really need them since I'm having a hard time finding them. Thanks.


I'm doing the same as you- no O-ring. guess I'll be looking for some O-rings now.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Spray that axle with some frame saver or a light coat of oil to help prevent corrosion. Mine has been doing quite well and I gave up on the damn o-ring/flat washer a while ago. All is working fine and my XT BB has held up all season with no problems what so ever.

Crazy8 FTMFW! Love my cranks and they are holding up great and still black!


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I thought Rotor Q had them but after searching their rings aren't available in the proper BCD. Which sucks as I wanted to give it a shot a while back. In fact, finding rings in this BCD is a bit tricky to start with. HBC was everyones supplier for a while but that really isn't even an option any longer in my opinion. Crazy8 might be able to shed a little light on your search for the oval rings as he has been working on a few things (not making them himself mind you but simply trying to track down a supplier for standard rings that fit-that being said he might have an idea of who is making an oval one that will work)

I like the new xtr cranks as well for SS. A guy I ride with has them and is quite happy but to me the cleanest look is the spiderless set up.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Quick and easy chain ring:
Universal Cycles -- Blackspire Mono Veloce Chainring


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

add another to the list...added the needed spacers and all is right in the world. The driveside arm is a little close to the chainstay (~5mm maybe?), but these feel so much stiffer than the isis Turbines they replaced, it's not a big deal.

horrible pic, but you get the idear


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

bad mechanic said:


> Quick and easy chain ring:
> Universal Cycles -- Blackspire Mono Veloce Chainring


First time I have seen stock of those in ages...woot woot :thumbsup:


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

*E\P Ti 102bcd Rings*

These are E\P Ti 102bcd rings in 32t thru 36t tooth rings that have a high performance ceramic coating that resist wear and is self lubricating with numerous colors to chose from. Nothing fancy about the design but are extremely durable plus reversible.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

crazy8 said:


> Nothing fancy about the design


But it does the job and the devil is in the details.... ceramic coating, titanium, colors...:thumbsup::thumbsup:

What's the damage going to be on one of those ?


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

*Here's mine!*

Did it myself!


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## 29Again (Mar 27, 2005)

crazy8 said:


> These are E\P Ti 102bcd rings in 32t thru 36t tooth rings...


crazy8, are the rings, before coating made from Titanium? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

I am interested, do you have a link on your website http://www.ceramikoat.com/coatingservices.html to purchase these? PM is cool if you are flying below the radar.


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## Airvoltaire (Feb 5, 2012)

*The Evolution*

Looking through so many SS on MTBR got me inspired to build my own. It was a joy to make it a reality. A 6 month project and loved every minute of it putting it together and riding it. M-960 custom ground and polished. Boom!


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

I posted this before in another thread, but that has since been buried. I tried to get creative and did something a little different, someday I'll send these crazy8's way to get em coated. 

I'm currently running a set of rotor cranks with a 74/110 dual compact set up but if I get strong enough to run a single ring I have these and a 32t HBC ring waiting in the wings-


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Jon Richard,
that flowy-chunky interplay of styles looks factory!


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Very cool Jon Richard!!


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## minh (May 23, 2004)

Airvoltaire said:


> Looking through so many SS on MTBR got me inspired to build my own. It was a joy to make it a reality. A 6 month project and loved every minute of it putting it together and riding it. M-960 custom ground and polished. Boom!


ummmm- any pics of your NSX? I can almost make out that nose under the cover.


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

JRP's description is dead on accurate, cool look Jon.



Jon Richard said:


> I posted this before in another thread, but that has since been buried. I tried to get creative and did something a little different, someday I'll send these crazy8's way to get em coated.
> 
> I'm currently running a set of rotor cranks with a 74/110 dual compact set up but if I get strong enough to run a single ring I have these and a 32t HBC ring waiting in the wings-


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

Folks like em, how very cool thanks!

I'm thinking chromex with XTR stenciled back on when I'm ready for a new project crazy8.


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## fueledbymetal (Jul 20, 2007)

Can this be done with a dremel?


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

So where can we currently buy rings for this crankset?


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## voodoochild (Feb 20, 2004)

Any retailer who sells Blackspire rings -- not sure what size they offer besides 32t.


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

fueledbymetal said:


> Can this be done with a dremel?


I don't see why not, hell I did mine with a hack saw and belt sander.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

rob1035 said:


> So where can we currently buy rings for this crankset?


HBC:

Rings for Shimano XTR M960 Cranksets


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## zaskaranddriver (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah everyone knows those are great rings, but seriously that's a pretty lame recommendation at this point. Who would order from HBC without first knowing whether product is being or going to be produced?


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## voodoochild (Feb 20, 2004)

One could also contact RD at Shawnee -- see the post at the top of the page? He may have some of those tasty ti rings.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Blackspire - SuperPro M960X Chainrings | Blackspire
Looks like you can get them directly from Blackspire. Might be a little cheaper if your go through a dealer. Not sure though, and they are not cheap.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Mattias Hellore can make you custom chain rings to fit the M960:
Experimental Prototype


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## voodoochild (Feb 20, 2004)

That's who's making the rings that crazy8 is selling. 

FWIW, I've used the "contact us" link on his (Mattias') website and never gotten a response. Maybe it's me...


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## turboit (Dec 17, 2014)

Sorry for the rehashing of an old thread. I just recently purchased a set of these cranks
and am looking for another supplier other than blackspire and wolftooth for these cranks.
Seems like the other manufactures mentioned in this thread no longer make them. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

*102BCD Rings*



turboit said:


> Sorry for the rehashing of an old thread. I just recently purchased a set of these cranks
> and am looking for another supplier other than blackspire and wolftooth for these cranks.
> Seems like the other manufactures mentioned in this thread no longer make them. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Thanks!


What are you looking for? I may have one in stock to sell.


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## turboit (Dec 17, 2014)

crazy8 said:


> What are you looking for? I may have one in stock to sell.


Sorry I wasn't specific. I'm looking for a 32 tooth chainring


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

I've got E/P 32t, and maybe a Homebrewed 32t. If interested you need to contact me through FB page or email.


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## turboit (Dec 17, 2014)

crazy8 said:


> I've got E/P 32t, and maybe a Homebrewed 32t. If interested you need to contact me through FB page or email.


I'll send you a message through fb. I tried responding through your website but haven't gotten a response. Thanks! 
-Will


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## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

One way around the odd BCD size chain ring, is to have a machine shop elongate the holes by 1mm to make it 104.

I did this, and have raced on it this year. Still haven't had the chance to polish it up though.


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

What's the polishing process on something like this?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Bhaalgorn said:


> What's the polishing process on something like this?


Grab a beer and some sand paper. Sand finish off, realize you f#cked up and how much more work is required to get it to shine pretty. Hammer down 10 more beers out of anger, paint the crank black, install on bike. BOOM!


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## turboit (Dec 17, 2014)

I found another option to Blackspire and Wolftooth chainrings for the m960 crankset. Warhawk Industries offers sizes from 32-70 teeth. Also available are several colors to
choose from. Pricing unfortunately is about the same as Blackspire and Wolftooth. Just wanted to share


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## dualsport650 (Nov 4, 2004)

Thanks Braa!


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## MTB Pharm (Mar 10, 2007)

turboit said:


> I found another option to Blackspire and Wolftooth chainrings for the m960 crankset. Warhawk Industries offers sizes from 32-70 teeth. Also available are several colors to
> choose from. Pricing unfortunately is about the same as Blackspire and Wolftooth. Just wanted to share


Do a search before you buy. http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/warhawk-industries-still-business-859732-2.html

Buyer beware. No experience with Warhawk, but had read about issues with them like with Homebrew (HBC).


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## turboit (Dec 17, 2014)

Thanks for the heads up! 👍


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