# Which is better, multiple lower lumen lights vs 1 high lumen light?



## robhurlburt (May 31, 2008)

Looking at some lights for my bike, specifically nightrider's (but am open to suggestions). I can get a dual beam Lumina 1800 for $150, or i can get 3 Micro 850s for the same price (theoretically 2550 lumens). Which is going to be better light output?


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

robhurlburt said:


> Which is going to be better light output?


with technically more advanced products.
this nightriderstuff uses outdatet low grad LEDs with a horrible low amount of light from the Wh of the battery what is build in.

in all therms of weight vs light output over time they are on the lowest end on the scale.

buy an Sofirn SD05 "a 20$ light" and compare it in real world use with all nightrider stuff and you will understand it fully.

to your main question what is better, 1x high power or 2x lower power.

option 2 is always the better one!!!!

with one light you are always have the limits of an optic.

with 2 lights you can otimize the beam for your use.
for example onle angle to throw light up at distance, the other set so narrow field lightning.

or set the lights a little bit to not point the same point.
so you get bigger light field.

or set both at the same point= more throw distance.

you can do what you want without the limits of one light only.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

You need two lights a flood on the bars and a spot on your helmet.

Good beam pattern is more important than higher lumens.

Most cheap lights have a completely crap beam pattern with a very bright center spot and dim mid/outer radius. This bright center kills your overall night vision.

exposure lights is the best of the best, but you pay for it.

good example of good vs bad beam.








https://road.cc/content/feature/268...-2019-front-light-beam-comparison-engine-live


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

For trails I would recommend two lights, too. I personally use a modified 2000 lumen BT40s on the bars (less than 20 Euro) and an unmodified 1500 lumen Ituo XP2 (100 Euro) on my helmet. For me a reliable and costeffective solution for singletrails.


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

I ride with two Lumina 650s on my bars and a 750 micro on my helmet.

I like that I can point the bar lights differently. One is pointed a few feet in front of my tire and one is pointed out a little farther. A light on the helmet is a must for me so I can see whatever way my head turns.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

You need 1 of the head and 1 on the bar. 1500 to 2000 lumens on the bar and the head. 
That will get you a solid set up to handle most riding. 

Look for wider beam lights. A lot of the cheaper stuff are more pencil beam and they look powerfull at a long distance but have **** light where you actually need it. In particular dont put a pencil beam on the bar. That is terrible.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

robhurlburt said:


> Looking at some lights for my bike, specifically nightrider's (but am open to suggestions). I can get a dual beam Lumina 1800 for $150, or i can get 3 Micro 850s for the same price (theoretically 2550 lumens). Which is going to be better light output?


Would help if we knew a bit more about how your going to use the lights. Trails only, road only, or a combo of both, description of trails (tight technical, open flowy), ride length (time), general budget (is $150 ballpark), how often do you plan on using the lights? The more details we know the better chance you have of getting good recommendations for your needs.
Mole


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## robhurlburt (May 31, 2008)

thanks for all the info everyone. i ended up with a nightrider 850 micro for the helmet and a Lezyne 1300XXL for the bar. i believe it will we be a solid set-up. I plan to use them for XC riding, once a week at most


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Before you do a big night ride, test the Lumina to see if it will last long enough for you. If you run the 850 Micro on the high setting, it is down to half its output after just 30 minutes. At an hour it's only 250 lumen. About half of what I'd consider a minimum amount of light for XC trails. Probably best to avoid using the high setting as much as possible.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

robhurlburt said:


> thanks for all the info everyone. i ended up with a nightrider 850 micro for the helmet and a Lezyne 1300XXL for the bar. i believe it will we be a solid set-up. I plan to use them for XC riding, once a week at most


I know the Niterider guys don't like it when I post these charts but since the subject has come up you can take a look and make up your own mind. I'm not dissing on Niterider just pointing out one of the downsides to buying that particular model. They are smaller which is good for helmet mounting but at the expense of battery capacity which means lower average output to maintain reasonable runtimes. They're also very reliable, have great beam patterns and excellent customer service. Unfortunately compared to the Cygolite Metro Plus 800 (Sigma Buster 700 is great too) the Micro 850's output degrades very quickly. 
Mole


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

Get two. Have one for backup. When one goes out for some reason you have a backup to get out.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

robhurlburt said:


> thanks for all the info everyone. i ended up with a nightrider 850 micro for the helmet and a Lezyne 1300XXL for the bar. i believe it will we be a solid set-up. I plan to use them for XC riding, once a week at most


That's about what I have.
Lumina 950 boost on the head and Serfas 1200 on the bars.

I know the nightrider lights get a bad rep on the site saying they don't burn bright. Maybe it's a time thing.
I've had mine for a year, and I ride 1.5 hour night rides once a week, beginning next week. Up to this time of year the usage per ride varies as it's not dark until after our ride has begun.

Anyway, my Nightrider on high (not boost) overpower the ground in front of my wheel lit up by the Serfas. Yes, the Serfas is bright, however it shines flat out, not downward. If I point my head down to the ground and wave my head around, it floods the Serfas. Point being, the Lumina beam is overpowering the spread of the Serfas because of how it is mounted in more of a horizontal position. I'm confident in saying this should be typical behavior regardless of which light setup one uses, as long as the helmet light isn't weak comparatively speaking.

With that said, I haven't 'noticed' my Lumina dimming as the ride carries on. If you tested it, perhaps it is weaker at the end based on test equipment. It is not weaker based on my eyes -obviously if will weaken through the ride period and isn't an instance 'dimming' experiences.
My point though is that despite most people stating the nightrider lights don't hold their brightness, for those that don't ride a ton in a single ride may never experience a dimming experience. I've finished with the red status light flashing (on both lights) and it doesn't quite feel like I am struggling to see the terrain for that last 20 minutes of a ride.

Enjoy your light setup and the night riding experience.

I too ride once a week at dark with our group of folks. I would more often but I'm not comfortable getting stuck at dark when nobody will be around, likely, until the following day. Doesn't take but a split second to hit a rock just right to take you down and break a bone.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Forest Rider said:


> ........With that said, I haven't 'noticed' my Lumina dimming as the ride carries on. If you tested it, perhaps it is weaker at the end based on test equipment. It is not weaker based on my eyes.......


Your eyes do "adjust" to the reduced output. That is why you don't really notice it. Plus the fact that you are mostly running below the max output helps the battery stay up in a more flat discharge. The Boost series also have a flatter discharge curve than the Micros due to bigger battery capacity.

The Micro 850 would be a much better product if they got rid of the high setting. The discharge/dimming curve would be much better as a 450-500 lumen light.

The part that bugs me is that they advertise the Micro as 850 lumen and 90 minute runtime and neglect to tell the consumer that it is only going to be about 100 lumen near the end of the run. Lots of light companies do this though. NR is certainly not the only manufacturer playing with numbers for sales purposes.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Forest Rider said:


> My point though is that despite most people stating the nightrider lights don't hold their brightness, for those that don't ride a ton in a single ride may never experience a dimming experience. I've finished with the red status light flashing (on both lights) and it doesn't quite feel like I am struggling to see the terrain for that last 20 minutes of a ride.


Thats one of the reasons i warned in the first post to not waste money for this lights.

Micro 850
Sigma Buster 700
.......

and alot others here named technically convoy S2 lights in only more heavy *other looking housings*!!!!
and this 10$ low end tech have alot limitations!!!

not only the output is low and they are all *not regulated*.

the runtime is about the lowest end off LEDs used in this lights limited heavy.
this tech is only able to do ~ 800 lumens for 1 hour.
about sucking down brightness over time the runtime will be ~1,5 Hour.

the other technical detail.
quality lights have a *fully regulated output*= *100% the same brightness over time* from the switch on, to near battery dead!!

all the named lights in this post are not able to do it.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?415313-Convoy-S2-measurements-(7135*8-3B)

thats why i suggest to take a look on serious made lights not technically convoy S2 in 100 different housings and all of them sold with different names!!!

if you now compare the size from this typical low grade tech vs techical actual lights.









The grey = typical junk tech what is in all the lights named here.
the dark light is a 20$ light on a actual tech level.

grey light=you see in the link ~800-700 Lumens for little over 1 Hour not regulated.
thew black light= 1000 Lumen fully regulatet for 3 Hours!!!!!

you need for example 3x Micro 850 take with you to reach the lumens over time from the black light........


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Forest Rider said:


> That's about what I have.
> Lumina 950 boost on the head and Serfas 1200 on the bars.
> 
> I've finished with the red status light flashing (on both lights) and it doesn't quite feel like I am struggling to see the terrain for that last 20 minutes of a ride.


Last usable 20 min. of runtime are going to look considerably different to a rider with a Lumina 850 micro (see below chart). Your Lumina 950 would make a nice upgrade for the OP's needs though.
Mole


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

MRMOLE said:


> Your Lumina 950 would make a nice upgrade for the OP's needs though.
> Mole


upgrade in what?
60$
no serious output regulation.
for ~ 600 lumen for ~90 min." if i take the middle of your graph"
180 gramm weight is any type of upgrade to what.

a convoy S2 delivers the same for 10$ and weight 100 gramms.

sorry to call lowerst grade on lightning tech"~10$ range"that is sold totally overpriced is no upgrade on any way.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

@lostplaces are there any bike lights off the shelf available you would not call outdated or crap?


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Slipway said:


> @lostplaces are there any bike lights off the shelf available you would not call outdated or crap?


Best ignore his posts and opinions (unless you want to get a light from aliexpress or kaidomain and modify it or you want to have a flashlight). He has an extremely biased view. Any XHP lamp is top of the world, all the other remaining stuff is crap. So for him only flashlights (with XHP LEDs and 21700 cells) are proper bike lights. 
He also is not really a trail rider, he is more the type who rides comfortably on wide forest roads. Keep that in mind when reading his "recommendations".

He can't read data sheets and any led which he doesn't like is worse than datasheet says, only the xhp's (which he likes) are way better than the datasheet says. he has an extreme high view of his competencies which are not as high as he thinks... Don't trust his "measured" lumen values, he doesn't understand what a proper lumen measurement is...

Unless you want a flashlight (or something from KD/Aliexpress), better listen to people like MrMole, Vancbiker, CAt-man-do....


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Slipway said:


> @lostplaces are there any bike lights off the shelf available you would not call outdated or crap?


if delivers serious outputs an runtimes vs weight ratio what are are not look like 10$ aliexpress junk, yes.

the first question was 1 or 2 small light are better, but what if bouth the smaller or the bigger are technically junk?

at moment is the SD05 the best light and my referenz to measure enemys products against it for bike use.

The beam is a basic one, nothing spezial.








Weight with 21700=180 gramm
weight with 18650= 160 gramm

output with 21700=3 Hours.








show me a light for my bike that can beat that for 20$.


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

I'm not sure if I just overkill my lighting options or if we ride differently. I also know budgets dictate what we all use but I'm not sure I could ride our trails at our pace with some of the suggestion made.

I use two Glowworm lights, X2 1700 on my helmet and the XS 2500 on my bars. I find this to be quite adequate for keeping 85-90% of daytime speeds on our local trails. Both give over 2 hrs of run time on full power. I can't imagine running less. Just my thoughts.


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## robhurlburt (May 31, 2008)

MRMOLE said:


> I know the Niterider guys don't like it when I post these charts but since the subject has come up you can take a look and make up your own mind. I'm not dissing on Niterider just pointing out one of the downsides to buying that particular model. They are smaller which is good for helmet mounting but at the expense of battery capacity which means lower average output to maintain reasonable runtimes. They're also very reliable, have great beam patterns and excellent customer service. Unfortunately compared to the Cygolite Metro Plus 800 (Sigma Buster 700 is great too) the Micro 850's output degrades very quickly.
> Mole
> 
> View attachment 1290293


well f-me then. i bought the light and the helmet mount. where can i find all this test data and comparison charts? would the cygolight 800 be your recommendation for a helmet light?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

You aren't f'ed, just use it within its ability. Know that unless it's a 20-30 minute ride you really need to avoid the high setting as much as possible. Start on medium and you will have reasonable light for an hour and a half or so. 

It really depends on what your use plans are. If it is just to cover the last half hour of an after-work ride, it will be fine. If you are thinking full dark, 2+ hours, well.....that will take something different.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

robhurlburt said:


> well f-me then. i bought the light and the helmet mount. where can i find all this test data and comparison charts?


I like to post this info. because I believe most people have no idea that almost all single cell bike lights output degrades (to varying degrees) over the runtime. It's true that your eyes adjust to the gradual decrease in light as long as there's enough light to get the job done but in cases like the Micro 850 the output degrades so rapidly to levels I wouldn't be comfortable with that there's very little usable runtime. The wetestlights site I'm adding a link to is run by Light&Motion and done in their sphere (output vs. runtime like the graphs I posted). Data on that site is very accurate but only tells you output vs. runtimes and if you know what to look for some thermal data + they usually list the lights weight. Best to also research some reviews for other important information about each light (beam patterns, build quality, mount quality, UI, customer service). The road.cc site doesn't provide any output vs. runtime info. but its output info. is set up to give beam pattern information + they provide beam shots and reviews. Word of warning though, data quality control is not the best and reviews are done by different people so ratings are not consistent (IMO). 
Mole

We Test Lights | Bike Tests and Teviews

https://lights.road.cc/index-wide.php

https://road.cc/category/review-section/accessories/lights-front


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

Don't consider yourself screwed until you have used it.

I dim mine to low when climbing, even go with a single light if necessary.
I bump them both to high mode when descending fast. I keep them both pretty bright if I am riding fast single track, like 15mph curvy stuff.

We start our rides at 6:00 and could be finished by 8:00, depending on the course, maybe earlier of course. Never had a light die yet, but I've only been a night rider for one season, this past season. 

Again, my posts from earlier were not to say "my light doesn't get dimmer", it was meant to read that despite whatever dimming has taken place, it has not made it impossible to see the trails at speed.

As bright as minute one, don't know and don't care (my personal preference). Plenty bright by the end of the ride -yes, absolutely.


OP, just test it out. Leave it on high for a short ride -how long does it take to charge when you finish. Leave it on low or medium for the same duration -how long does it take to charge.

How long does it take to charge from dead. Very unscientific of course, but that may gauge how long you can expect the light to last during normal use.

Also, leaving it on at home to test is not the same -the light will develop more heat sitting still.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

robhurlburt said:


> would the cygolight 800 be your recommendation for a helmet light?


Yes, that Cygolite has the most stable output I've seen for this type of light. I also like the Sigma Buster 700 which comes with a bar and helmet mount. Actually makes closer to 900 lumens and remains pretty stable for the first half of the runtime. I did output tests on both these lights (I calibrate my testing the the wetestlights results). All these lights perform similar to how your 850 does (when you first turn it on with a full charge) the Lumina just fades much quicker than the other two. Lumina and Cygolite have similar beam width and the Sigma is a little narrower more focus beam that provides a little more throw. They all have goods UI programs and no thermal issues. My newer Cygolite performed even better than the one tested by wetestlights.
Mole

Cygolite Metro 800 Plus
Red=Boost.....Green=Hi.....Purp=Med.








Sigma Buster 700
Red=Hi.....Green=Med.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

@lostplaces : sorry but I don't get, what you are saying. Your recommendation is a flashlight? Sorry but output and beam pattern are both not what I would call high-end for faster trails. No chance to win against my Ituo/BT40s combination. Any other, more bike-specific suggestions? By the way: if you are herbertR from the mtb forum: thanks for your idea modding the xanes xl03


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## robhurlburt (May 31, 2008)

so after doing research on the wetestlights i got the cygolight 800. i looked at the 850 vs 800 and the graph was almost identical. going to return the nightrider 850 micro. i still feel pretty good about the Lezyne 1300XXL, even though it is not tested, the Lezyne graphs look good. Had i known before hand i would have gone with the Light and Motion Taz 1200


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I have been using Niterider Lumina's for about 4 years now, a couple of 750's and a boost 950. All have been real good and pretty dang bright. They are not the micros. They seem to do well holding the brightness even after an hour. I mostly use 2 on the bars and the 950 on the helmet and it's always been more than enough. I have other lights that are brighter but these are plenty bright. The best thing is the beam quality is awesome and perfect for mountain biking. And they have dedicated mounts. I don't believe the flashlight in question has a mount and I care not to jerry rig one either. The Luminas all have been under 65 bucks and the 1st one I bought was a brand new one in box w/ helmet mount 750 off Craigs L for 50 bucks. Sure there are better lights but these are pretty dang solid. I've had them side by side the Cygo's and I like the beam better on the Niterider. Just an FYI.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mb323323 said:


> I have been using Niterider Lumina's for about 4 years now, a couple of 750's and a boost 950. All have been real good and pretty dang bright. They are not the micros. They seem to do well holding the brightness even after an hour. I mostly use 2 on the bars and the 950 on the helmet and it's always been more than enough. I have other lights that are brighter but these are plenty bright. The best thing is the beam quality is awesome and perfect for mountain biking. And they have dedicated mounts. The Luminas all have been under 65 bucks and the 1st one I bought was a brand new one in box w/ helmet mount 750 off Craigs L for 50 bucks. Sure there are better lights but these are pretty dang solid. I've had them side by side the Cygo's and I like the beam better on the Niterider. Just an FYI.











Output stability is not the only factor for judging the value of a light (as long as it's reasonable). My problem with Niterider is the 850 Micro's output stability performance is so poor that I consider it a deal breaker that most light consumers have no idea they're getting into when they choose the 850 micro (like the OP). As you can see by the chart your Lumina 750 totally dominates the 850 micro (approx. 200 lumens stronger through most of it runtime) even though it rated 100 lumens less. My point of view (though some don't think so) is not that I'm picking on Niterider but that I'm just showing a better option (than the 850 micro) whether it be a Cygolite or a different Lumina.



> I don't believe the flashlight in question has a mount and I care not to jerry rig one either.


Your correct that @ his $20 claim it doesn't have a mount + no battery or charger (not usb chargeable). They sell full kits on Amazon for $45 but that still doesn't include a mount so it's not as good a deal as the picture he painted. Beam pattern looks very much like the little Sofirn SP40 I recently purchased which wastes a lot of light for cycling and like you mentioned, mounts may be an issue. The positive to his flashlight posts is the tech information is solid and could eventually be adapted to a more bicycle friendly form. I've already seen a couple of lights that have adapted the 21700 batteries that definitely showed increased runtimes but a little added weight. Improvements in performance by using the emitter from that flashlight looks more promising as it's supposed to produce about twice the amount of light per watt of energy used. So theoretically if Niterider adapted that emitter to their 850 micro they could increase the output, output stability, and runtime and still keep the same small and light weight form. I'd be willing to pay a little more for a light like that.
Mole


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

MRMOLE said:


> They sell full kits on Amazon for $45 but that still doesn't include a mount so it's not as good a deal.....
> Mole


Dont tell nonsens.
That you sugest overprized lowest technically stuff is yours.

A SD05 cost solo for people what have at home batterys ~19$
who will have a full set with a battery and charge pays with a cupon code .


> *Only $26.99 per kit*


[New Arrival] Sofirn SD05 Diving Flashlight | BudgetLightForum.com

a bike holder cost ~2 $ so nothing to talk about and better ...... what for example exposure delivers with his joystick is near any 2$ holder.

so if really anyone not have 18650 or 21700 batterys at home its still money thats not worth to talk.

and a light that outperforms all your 50$+ recommendations by *3 times *is not a good deal.:thumbsup:

I would be ashamed recommend someone to waste 50$ ore more for a <1000 lumen ~1 hour runtime light that weights 150 gramm and is technically aliexpress 10$ junk in another overpack.....



MRMOLE said:


> I also like the Sigma Buster 700 which comes with a bar and helmet mount......


yes you like <1000 lumen 1 hour 150 gramms light to buy for 50$.

i like ~150 gramm lights that delivery me 3 Hour 1000 lumens an that will cost 20$, so actual LED tech.

if niterider ore sigma will be able to realize this specs from the SD05 into a light they will take 300$+ for that light from you.



MRMOLE said:


> My problem with Niterider is the 850 Micro's output stability performance is so poor that I consider


your problem is still to waste money for same techically stuff in different overpacks and sold under different brand names.
that in the 850 micro a resitor is changed on the driver board makes no differenz to talk about, same horrible low light amount over time like all the others.....

if i buy one time in my life techically crap i learn from that and dont repeat it again, again and again.

if i see this company sells only techically junk in different overpacks i look to other companys and figure out what company sells serious lights that have a real value.



Slipway said:


> @lostplaces : sorry but I don't get, what you are saying. Your recommendation is a flashlight?


my recomendation is to waste money for good performing lights on the bike.
and if you need more than 1000 real lumen for 3 Hours 2x SD05 cost 40$ and will deliver 2000 real lumen for 3 Hours.

for same output and runtime i need to mount 8x Lumina 850 micros on the handlebar.......



Slipway said:


> . No chance to win against my Ituo/BT40s combination. Any other, more bike-specific suggestions?


BT40s= clone from an older magicshine is a ~little over 1000 lumen flood beam, nothing spezial.
ituo spot beam? 1000 lumen?

what is bike specific, flood or spot??????.:thumbsup:
or to hit epic 1000 lumens?
to beat your combo will be a challange???

i am using now for some days my new mf01 mini now for this winter for night rides, this deliver a great flood vs spot ratio, and i buy it with high CRI LEDs.
thats hard to beat for 45$.

and low CRI lights make no hit in a challange on a trail vs high CRI.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I'm quite sure I won't get a legit answer......

@lostplaces...Are you getting free products or payment in cash or other means from the Chinese flashlight companies you are linking to all the time? Your posts are so narrow minded and narrow focused and almost always include a link to a product, it has led me to this conclusion.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

lostplaces said:


> > Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
> > They sell full kits on Amazon for $45 but that still doesn't include a mount so it's not as good a deal.....
> > Mole
> 
> ...


"Don't tell nonsense", I'm not sure what your referring to, the $45 Amazon price or the entire statement. As far as the $45 price that is what Amazon had it listed at when I check (today). I could not find the Kit anywhere else but if you know of a better place at a cheaper price great, please provide a link and the appropriate code. As far as the statement that the SD05 wasn't a good deal that's not what I printed. You left out the end of the sentence "as the picture he (meaning you) painted.". Changes the meaning from me saying it's not a good deal to it's not as good of a deal as you stated (which it isn't because you left out the fact that a battery, mounts, and a charger would be necessary also). Whatever your meaning was, you misquoted me and I'd appreciate it you didn't do that anymore!!! It wastes my time correcting your inaccurate statements + it diminishes your credibility.


> > Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
> > I also like the Sigma Buster 700 which comes with a bar and helmet mount......
> 
> 
> ...


How you judge lights is different that how I do it. Of course I'd rather the Buster 700 made 1000 lumens for 3 hrs. but like it better as a helmet light (topic of discussion that you pulled my quote from) because of its lighter weight (Buster 700 with mount:145 grams, SD05 with 21700 3 hr runtime configuration: 180 grams without mount) and better beam pattern (estimate it has more throw than the SD05). Not sure why you think the substitution of a more expensive emitter would make a Niterider or Sigma light 5x their current cost.



> > Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
> > My problem with Niterider is the 850 Micro's output stability performance is so poor that I consider
> 
> 
> ...


Again your putting words in my mouth. Please reread this thread and you'll see that in no way shape or form do I recommend the Niterider Lumina 850 Micro.
Mole


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

MRMOLE said:


> Of course I'd rather the Buster 700 made 1000 lumens for 3 hrs. but like it better as a helmet light (topic of discussion that you pulled my quote from) because of its lighter weight


the SD05 weight depends on battery put in.
the light weights ~155 gramms with an 18650.
and with this it still outperforms a sigma 700 by two times in lumen vs runtime ratio.
take an aditionakl battery with me ~44 gramms= extra 2 Hours for 1000 lumens......

and dont talk about better beam patterns or whatever over products t*hat you dont have ever seen*.

i from my side have seen ~ years ago the sigma 700+ 2000HL"battery pack light" and know from my side 100% how it lights.

and i have the SD05 and know 100% how this lights.

Sigma typical spot TIR beam.
SD05 typical OP reflector spot beam.

SD05 lights more far"throw" and have a wider beam what makes it absolutly allroundy for anyone.

your talk about beam pattern from lights that you not have looks very interessting......

and that i recommend people to waste better ~20-30$ for a light that outperforms technically junk lights that need 4x18650 battery packs to reach near the same performance and deliver a better beam profile.....

yes your recomends looks against my recommend like a joke.:thumbsup:

and for helmet use there are to tonns of ~100 gramm lights with state of the art tech.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

@lostplaces: I totally disagree and my measurements and calculations show something totally different (trust me, I'm an engineer). But you made your point clear: your answer is always "flashlight". No more discussion needed.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

lostplaces said:


> the SD05 weight depends on battery put in.
> the light weights ~155 gramms with an 18650.
> and with this it still outperforms a sigma 700 by two times in lumen vs runtime ratio.
> take an aditionakl battery with me ~44 gramms= extra 2 Hours for 1000 lumens......
> ...


Yes your correct that I don't have any experience using a SD05. I based my comments on your beam shots that appear very similar to my 1000 lumen SP40 (which uses different emitters) that is definitely not the performance equal to any of my single cell self-contained lights (Buster 700, Cygolite 800/950, Lumina 1200, Ion 1300). Probably shouldn't comment on the SD05 but no different that you commenting on vertually every bike light (most of which you've never used) by calling them low tech junk. *So I won't comment on the SD05 any more (unless I end up getting one) and hopefully you'll stop commenting on lights you've never used.*

Now as far as your comment on your recommendation (SD05) vs. mine (I actually suggested 2 lights (Cygolite 800 & Buster 700)) for a helmet light. I've already agreed with you that the XHP50.2 emitter and 21700 are more efficient and provide more runtime but I would still pick the Buster 700 because of the form factor (lighter weight/better mounts and probable better beam pattern (based on what I've seen). I know you don't agree but please allow me to have a differing opinion from yours without having to have an argument about every single light that's brought up in this forum (give people different choices and let them decide what's best for their needs). Also I'm a little confused by some of your previous comments that aren't consistent with your recommendation for the SD05 as a helmet light?

mack turtle wrote:


mack_turtle said:


> Little update- I tried that Sofirn light last night. I love how well it works but I think it's too heavy on my helmet for comfort. It gave me a bit of a headache after a while and there is no way to adjust the angle.


Your response:


lostplaces said:


> yes for helmet its to heavy, empty light is ~ 120 gramm.
> with a 21700 you are at 190 gramms.
> with a 18650 you are at 165 gramms.
> 
> ...


This one is not referring specifically to the SD05 but general helmet use:


> my zebra only weighs 90 gramms, thats the only thing what my head is able to carry any gramm more will break my neck.



Mole


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

lostplaces said:


> ...
> and dont talk about better beam patterns or whatever over products t*hat you dont have ever seen*.
> ...
> your talk about beam pattern from lights that you not have looks very interessting......
> ...


It would be so great, would you apply the same standard to you that you apply to others. You constantly judge and talk about beam patters of lights which you never owned nor have seen in real life. 
The only (very bad) joke here are your posts.

And please: use google translate to write proper english sentences ....Otherwise: get a textbook or visit an english class to learn proper english.


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## robbnj (Jul 19, 2013)

biking_tg said:


> It would be so great, would you apply the same standard to you that you apply to others. You constantly judge and talk about beam patters of lights which you never owned nor have seen in real life.
> The only (very bad) joke here are your posts.
> 
> And please: use google translate to write proper english sentences ....Otherwise: get a textbook or visit an english class to learn proper english.


I consider myself a noob here, but I think your closing statement is out of line.


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## robhurlburt (May 31, 2008)

Well for anyone curious, i went out for my ride with the lights for the first time.









edit: no idea how to rotate it correctly


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

robhurlburt said:


> Well for anyone curious, i went out for my ride with the lights for the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome, did you have fun.
Mole


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## robhurlburt (May 31, 2008)

MRMOLE said:


> Awesome, did you have fun.
> Mole


sure did. a little spooky being alone to be honest.

i am not sure i am buying into the 2.5hr runtime for the Lezyne 1300XXL. After around 45mins the power light turned yellow, indicating it was at 50% power so...


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

robhurlburt said:


> sure did. a little spooky being alone to be honest.........


I used to night ride a lot of "urban" trails after work. Those were the ones I'd get a bit sketched out on. Never had a "bad" run in with people, but did have a few encounters where the situation had potential to be bad. Transients and druggies.

One time came across a couple enjoying each other. I'm sure I spooked them a bit.

Way out of town night rides, no worries at all.

Get a small fan to blow air over the light and test the runtime at home. I'm very pessimistic about the accuracy of power indicator lights and much prefer to know an accurate run time. It's a bit like the fuel gauge on my truck. At 240 miles it shows half a tank. At 340 miles it's on E and the low warning light comes on meaning about 30 miles till dry.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

When I started riding at night in the woods it felt a little spooky, too. Especially once when an owl suddenly appeared in the beam and flew real close over me  Felt a little like Harry Potter.
But the mood at night is so special, you will love it...


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

While not so low lumens, I pretty accustomed with dual headlight bar setup. I am creating _pseudo-high_ by running both on medium, much less heat, resulting stable output consistency and longer burn times because I am not torturing the LEDs at maximum brightness. I can get easily 4-5 hours enjoying riding in the woods without much worry about runtime. As a bonus, I get my beam pattern centered compared with single light mounted which causing lateral offset.

The only downside is weight, depending model used for twin configuration, ideally compact dual emitters self contained is preferred. Dual Ravemen PR1200 is my favorite so far, but I saw opportunity Magicshine Ray series can fit this role too due insanely compact and lightweight package.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> Dual Ravemen PR1200 is my favorite so far, but I saw opportunity Magicshine Ray series can fit this role too due insanely compact and lightweight package.


I wonder if you could splice in an additional usb connector on the remotes of these two lights and get them to work together from one remote?
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> I wonder if you could splice in an additional usb connector on the remotes of these two lights and get them to work together from one remote?
> Mole


Interesting idea, in theory it should be possible. Maybe I will use the Gaciron wired remote as guinea pig, I didn't brave enough to destroy more robust wired from Ravemen or Lezyne one.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> Interesting idea, in theory it should be possible. Maybe I will use the Gaciron wired remote as guinea pig, I didn't brave enough to destroy more robust wired from Ravemen or Lezyne one.


I'm pretty sure someone makes a splitter cable for whatever configuration you could think of. Hope you get a chance try this out as it would greatly simplify operating a 2 light setup.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I ordered a micro usb splitter cable from Amazon ($6) but unfortunately the 2 lights with one remote Idea didn't work (with Ravemen lights/remote). Was able to charge both lights at the same time with the splitter but even with only 1 light connected to the remote with the splitter wouldn't work. 
Mole


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