# Pump track - need some design help - any gurus out there?



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm not sure this is the correct forum - I considered the DJ forum, but that seemed a bit too DJumpy...

A friend of mine put together a pump track in his back yard. I've been helping out here and there, neither he nor I have any experience with building one. That said I have ridden a few pump tracks before and feel like if it was designed correctly I (or JT) could ride around it without pedaling.

He used some dimensional info from Leelikesbikes and started dumping dirt and creating berms and pumps. We've been adjusting things as we go. The adjusting has mostly been making the berms bigger, sculpting the pumps and shaving the top off some of the pumps. The problem is that the area is not flat and we haven't actually gotten a clean run all the way around the track without a few pedal strokes (literally one or two).

If you watch the video you can see that the last part of the track is the part that goes up hill. We made progress by shortening the last few pumps but we still can't carry enough speed to get up the hill and make the turn to start over again. Should the last few pumps be closer together? Further apart? Taller (highly doubtful since it got better after shortening them)? Is this impossible?

Note that this is not the best run of the day, but we only got a little bit further along than JT does in this video.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*not a guru.*

When I built my pump track it took a while for it to settle and be firm. Once it was firm it was much faster and took less effort. Using the track, and rain, helped to firm it up.

having said that I'd try a few things.
1. lower your seat all the way down. A high seat hits your butt and minimizes how much you can pump.
2. try having very little weight on your hands when you pump. try to do most through your feet.
3. your berms should end in a roller (the top of the roller should be the same height as the berm height where they meet, this is in Lee's ebook). the one berm I got a good look at tapered to the ground, then about a foot further there is a roller. Either move the roller closer to the berm or extend the berm to the roller. Do which ever you think will allow you increase speed through the berm.

good luck and have fun.


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

Slope = drainage = good.

Like the cj stated, it'll be faster when it's packed. I've seen pump tracks on much steeper terrain and seen riders make multiple laps w/o pedaling. 

It looks like you could be pumping harder and leaning more into the berm. 

Also, try placing a roller at the leading and trailing edge (entrance and exit) of the berm so that you get a pump at both points. That's a long run to not be pumping.

Good luck!

D


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks. The dirt he has packs amazingly well - you guys are right that it keeps riding faster and faster the more we ride it. 

After reading your posts and watching the video again I see that what we need to do is increase speed coming out of the last berm in the video before we start up the incline. I think we're going to try and move the first bump back and maybe tighten the radius on the berm up a bit so you can accelerate through it - I see us losing a lot of speed there. 

Thanks, any more comments?
John


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I have Lee's book, but JT doesn't. 

I just reviewed it again and I think the biggest problem is that the radius on the berms is too large. Lee suggests a 10-12 foot radius maximum, I'm certain those are both larger than that. Clearly not accelerating out of those. They probably need to be larger too once the speed increases through them. 

John


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## redriderbb (Aug 30, 2005)

*All of the above...and*

Yes to lowering your seat. Also, think of it like riding a row machine. Both your upper body and lower body should be engaged in the process.

Why is there not a berm at the top? Seems like you are loosing a lot of potential energy by turning across all those rollers heading up. Be patient.

I will say your rollers look pretty good, maybe a bit tight, but the transitions are textbook.

Ben


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## RANOACLAN (Mar 8, 2005)

*Great start*

Couple a hints
- Put a good roll in to start ya off ( high pile of dirt or longer straight away )
- last pump before the berms could be a little higher
- make an exit pump off the berms
- corner berms a bit higher and steeper to hold you tight!

just 2 cents - great job - letter rip!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for the continued input. I spent yesterday over at JT's. He had improved things - tightening the berms adding bumps to both ends of the berms - they looked nice initially but weren't consistent in their radius. 

I'm getting the idea this is a process...

John


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## WaveDude (Jan 14, 2004)

Build, tweak, ride, tweak, ride, tweak, ride...Repeat often. 

Soon there will be more riding than tweaking, then you get bored and add-on something new.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

here is a good thread on ridemonkey: 
"Pump Tracks" https://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217062

we have an up-gradient section of our pump track, and through much trial and error i learned that the "accelerating rollers" design below works great for gaining speed uphill.










this roller line is on a relatively flat grade (very slight), and everyone liked it. Hammerhead bikes pump track, austin. if i remember right, i spaced these 12' peak to peak. 









rollers don't have to be small speed-bump looking things... you can also make them more like bigger dirt waves.... Lee covers the height to period ratio thing in the book, but he doesn't really show pictures of larger rollers.









these rollers at Lory look pretty good (i haven't been there):









professionally built pump track. note the triple, and the steepness of the 180 berm. very nice:

















i can't watch your video on this computer so i'll have to get back to you with some comments when i see it.

you are right about the importance of berm radius. big turns soak up speed like on DH courses (or bmx tracks). but if you are going relatively slow and need to generate or maintain speed, tight radius turns are the way to go. i have built several that are about 7' radius. you can try to use a measuring tape and chalk/stakes etc. but the easier way is to just stand and pivot on your feet with the rake outstretched and you'll see where the line needs to be.

dburatti is right that rollers going into turns work well. what it does is kind of force your body into compressing into the turn. . . .


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## ortedd (Jan 14, 2008)

I have a small pump track on the side of my house on a grade. After some work, I found that creating the same amount of rise from one bump to the next as you gain elevation really helps out with being able to maintain / gain speed as you climb. This required a bit of dirt movement to create a staircase of sorts.

I had to throw in some S's on the "descent" to slow down for the tight 180. . . . Which after the third incarnation is looking to need to become a wall ride . . . 5ish foot radius is pretty tight.

Also make your turns constant radius turns help keep the speed up in both directions, had that problem of great flow on the increasing radius direction, but kind of sketchy on the decreasing radius direction (heading right towards a fence directly adjacent to the berm)


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

*pic request*



ortedd said:


> I have a small pump track on the side of my house on a grade. After some work, I found that creating the same amount of rise from one bump to the next as you gain elevation really helps out with being able to maintain / gain speed as you climb. This required a bit of dirt movement to create a staircase of sorts.


Do you have a pic of that "staircase"?


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## SuperBad (Jan 5, 2004)

Would love to see pics of all the tracks mentioned here, as I am getting ready to build a track on the side of my house.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

check out that link to ridemonkey - tons of great pump tracks in that thread! 

John


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## ortedd (Jan 14, 2008)

*picture did not come out well, but. . .*



Jisch said:


> Do you have a pic of that "staircase"?











I had a sharp rise through a turn so I had to level out the turn and build a smooth approach to it. Helped to carry enough speed to keep moving. Like others said, ride, tweak, repeat


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Jaguar Dealership 'pump track'


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## adamrobinson (Dec 8, 2006)

*Another question about design...*

I too am interested in building a track for friends and family. My wife will not even permit talk of this in our yard. 
So, in my thickheaded style, I am wondering if there are resources for HIDING a track that are similar to the expertise of the actual track construction? Are there images or videos or tips or advice of/for tracks that are hidden from sight when not in use? She would be not totally full of hatred at me if when she sunned on the deck or worked in the garden, there was not a serious warzone of hills, blood, and flying dirt. (Not till I get on it anyway)
Thanks.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*from leelikesbikes.com*

granite fines and paving blocks.





































https://www.leelikesbikes.com/wp-content/111907pavepumpS.jpg


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## ajd245246 (Sep 1, 2008)

wow! awesome job there, both tracks flow perfectly, and look great with the landscaping.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

adamrobinson said:


> . . . wife will not even permit talk of this . . . .


d e a l 
b r e a k e r


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