# The best response?



## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

Ok, I've been mtbing for a little over 2 years now. I'm not very good, but I'm not awful. Here's my background. I've spent more time in the out-of-doors than a dozen mtbers together. I have spent over a year of my life living in a tent. I have a PhD in geology and did the field work for my thesis in the desert of Utah.

I'm now 45 years old and overweight, but ride regularly. I like to ride with my local club, but I also like to ride solo. Inevitably, if I ride solo on a popular trail, I pull over to let faster riders get by. About 90% of the time, as the guy goes by, he asks, "Are you OK?" or some variant such as, "Do you have everything you need?"

So the first 2 or 3 times this happens, it's no big deal to say, "I'm fine." Then around time 25 or so, I respond, "I'm pulling over to let YOU by." Now around time 56, I'm getting mighty fed up with having to answer this question. This evening, the first time it happened, I responded, "I pulled over to have some gatorade" and took a swig in the 90 degree heat. To the next guy, I say, "I'm fine except for having to answer 'Are you OK' all the time." He says, "I'm being kind." BS! When he passes people on the sidewalk or in the office, he might be "kind" and say, "Great day, isn't it?" or perhaps "Hot one today, isn't it?" He sure wouldn't ask THEM, "Do you need help?" Not only that, it's arrogant and rude to think that anyone who stops to catch their breath is need of their assistance.

If they said, "Beautiful evening, isn't it?" or just a simple "Hi," or <what a concept> "Thanks" <for pulling over>, wouldn't that give the person pulled over a chance to ask for assistance if there actually were something wrong?

Yeah, I've been known to ask people on the trail/roadside if they need help. But it's when they have wheels or bike parts in their hands. Not when they're just catching their breath.

So when I would have normally enjoyed my regular Wednesday ride, I grumbled the whole way thinking of potential responses:
A) "I'm fat and out of shape. Got a problem with that????"
B) "I'm exhausted. Could you push my bike the last 2 miles back to the parking lot for me?"
C) <silence>
D) <My personal favorite> "I'm mentally deranged. Could you call my psychiatrist for me?"
E) <Did I mention that I'm blonde?> "I'm lonely, could you stop and chat with me for a bit?"
F) <My longtime inner secret response that I've never dared use> "Yeah, I'm looking for a place to bury the body. Can you help me?"

Am I the only human being on the planet who gets peppered with this question multiple times every week? What do you recommend I say?


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

The healthy thing to do is to completely and totally blow it off.
Why say anything negative? That just creates negativity. I'd train my inner robot to say "fine thanks, have a good night" and not get hooked into the rest of it. You can't control what other people are going to say or do, only your reaction to it.

Now, however, if you choose to let your inner witch out, the possbilities are endless.  

Formica


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Been riding these wonderous beasts, skinny and fat tire for 35+ years. Got some grey at 56 now. Have always carried a couple tubes ALWAYS. Been times I have used both, and someone asks me, "Do you have everything you need?" and I say "No", they stop and help me, and I am v-e-r-y grateful. More often on my way to the trails, I see someone (male/female) stopped, and I ask, "Do you have everything you need?" If they reply "yes", I say, "Have a great ride", and keep pedaling. If they reply "no", I stop and help. I probably give away 25+ tubes a year, and they are always grateful. I CARE about my fellow cyclists. Just reply "Yes", and loose the chip on your shoulder.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

slocaus said:


> Been riding these wonderous beast, skinny and fat tire for 35+ years. Got some grey at 56 now. Have always carried a couple tubes ALWAYS. Been times I have used both, and someone asks me, "Do you have everything you need?" and I say "No", they stop and help me, and I am v-e-r-y grateful. More often on my way to the trails, I see someone (male/female) stopped, and I ask, "Do you have everything you need?" If they reply "yes", I say, "Have a great ride", and keep pedaling. If they reply "no", I stop and help. I probably give away 25+ tubes a year, and they are always grateful. I CARE about my fellow cyclists. Just reply "Yes", and loose the chip on your shoulder.


Exactly! I have been on both sides, too. Nothing worse than when you DO need help and every rider that goes by ignores you.

And it is a nice feeling to be able to help someone finish their ride.

I always ask, in races and just out on the trail. I have helped many riders and been helped several times over the years.


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## endoMaster (Aug 6, 2004)

Just gave out a tube not more than three hours ago. I was one of those annoying people tonight that asked someone if they were o.k.

Be grateful that other people show concern for you on the trail. Most people that ask if you are o.k ask out of sincerely wanting to make sure you aren't out there with a mechanical problem, or even worse, a physical injury.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Lose the chip. They don't know whether you're just rolling to a stop due to a flat tire for which you have no spare or you're feeling woozy with heat exhaustion. Maybe you didn't have time to get the wheel in your hand or collapse unconscious.

They're being kind and caring, not condescending. Four miles from home or the car means at least an hour's walk and without water you might not make it.

Forget the Ann Landers-like smart answers. Just say "fine thanks" with a smile and YOU ask the next person you pass if they are ok. Most

Or if it really annoys you and you can't deal with it, just get faster so no-one passes you.

Most of us out there are looking out for the other person and appreciate the same. All except you of course.


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

Hey guys! I agree with you. I agree with all that you posted. Tuesday night with my club, I had a flat, and my chain broke. I don't love to fix mechanical things, and many guys do. I don't fight human nature. So, before I got my chain tool out, one of the guys had his out. What he didn't have was the magic gold link. So I pulled mine out, he put it in, because it really made him happy to do it. I said, "Thank you." End of story.

I couple weeks ago I saw two gals on the side of the paved bike trail with one tire off. I asked, "Do you need some help?" "No, we're fine."

I actually also really agree with you:


> The healthy thing to do is to completely and totally blow it off. Why say anything negative? That just creates negativity


 And that's my attitude the first dozen or more times it happened--within the month. But after a while, I get really, really tired of it. I mean, do you gals get it multiple times every week?

And, that's my point in asking you on this forum. I don't want to be mean. In fact, I'm actually one of the most fun loving, silly, happy people in my club. I'm also one of the people who is particularly welcoming to new folks to the group. And, if someone is being a particular dweeb, I usually use humor to point out how jerkie they're being. I got thanked yesterday by a couple of people for that. But my frustration level on the "Do you need help?" is growing. I knew to use your advice at first--I didn't have to ask!  At a basic level, it's excellent advice. Thank you.  But ultimately it became extremely frustrating due to its repetitiveness.

Not only is frustrating to have to have numeous people enquire onto my perfectly fine well being, at my usual Wednesday night ride location they do it at speed, so whatever you say (which 90% of the time has been quite polite on my part--because I believed your good advice), you can't hear their response as they fly off into the distance, but you hear they've said something. That's why silence was one of my options.

Perhaps I should rephrase this thread and ask, "How many times per week, do you get asked regarding your well-being?" I'd be really curious about you all's experience.


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## wooglin (Jan 6, 2004)

Now wait a second. There's a difference between being stopped trailside and pulling over to let someone by. Yeah, if someone's stopped I'll ask if they need help. But if they pull over I'll just say thanks and be on my way. To do otherwise would be condescending. I can see the original poster's point. I wouldn't like that either. Nothing to do about it but let it roll off your back though I guess.


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

> Lose the chip.


Excellent advice. That's why I'm posting. How do I do that?


> Forget the Ann Landers-like smart answers.


I don't think Ann Landers says smart alec thinks back--it's bad for you!  


> Or if it really annoys you and you can't deal with it, just get faster so no-one passes you.


I've been trying for years to do that, but haven't succeeded.


> Most of us out there are looking out for the other person and appreciate the same. All except you of course.


A little bit of a smart alec-ie answer, no????  You should work on being more friendly to other mtbers 
(If we were in person, you'd see a smile on my face while I type this--I'm KIDDING!)

So, like, here I am. I have am generally quite happy-go-lucky. I'm trying to work out the one sticky point I have. An everybody rags on me. I appreciate that it probably came across as a carpy posting. And I apologise for that. But just saying "get over it" doesn't really help after the 58th time in the last couple of months.


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## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

It does get tiresome. But you really can't do anything else but say thanks. 
I'm 45 & a solid intermediate rider, but I guess I just don't look like the mtbing type because I get that question too. 
When I'm in a bike shop, I get shown the cruiser bikes and get explanations on the difference between presta & shrader valves.


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm 20-30 pounds heavier than I would like to be and look more the soccer mom than extreme athelete. I'm not to fast, which is why I don't race any more, but I can ride lots and like all day rides. I'm not real speedy but love and do well on technical. 

I get it pretty often too. It's just folks being nice and looking out for each other. Even though it is repetitive to you, it's the other persons one encounter with you. I don't know about every one else, but the recent death of that young lady on Porc RIm is still fresh in my mind. 

I make of point of looking out for the poeple I ride with and the riders I encounter while out. Sometimes it is as simple as listening to the breathing of the slowest rider in the group and not rolling again until they are ready. Sometimes it means stopping when I encounter another stopped rider to ask if they need help or anything.


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

Squirrel Girl said:


> Excellent advice. That's why I'm posting. How do I do that?
> I don't think Ann Landers says smart alec thinks back--it's bad for you!


You're seeing their actions through a very narrow viewpoint.

I've been stopped on the side of the trail, and on my very populated trails, the offers for help do get almost annoying.

But, really, what's annoying is getting bugged while I'm trying to fix my bike and/or trying to recover before I barf in my mouth. It's annoying, but it's also one of my favorite aspects of MTBers.

And yes, I've noticed women get asked if they need help by EVERY passerby, whereas fellas seem to get it from 3/4 of the riders. But, what better way to strike up a conversation with a female rider? Or maybe they realize that some women might not know how to change a flat, or fix a chain. Or maybe they're just part of the 3/4's that ask everyone if they're okeedokey.

It seems odd that they routinely think you are pulling over due to a mechanical instead of to let them by. Maybe they were totally chill riding behind you, comfortable with your pace, and then you abruptly pulled off. If I were the faster rider, I'd probably think it was due to a mechanical as well. Maybe you can pull to one side while still pedalling and wave them by? When I hear a rider pull up behind me that may or may not be faster, I usually just tell them to let me know if they want to pass.


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

If all else fails, make a fold up cardboard sign that says, "Just Chillin'".

Take it out whenever you are taking a breather. When they ask if you need help, just say, "Nah man, I'm Just Chillin'".


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## Hello Kitty (Sep 3, 2004)

*Hell yes.*



Squirrel Girl said:


> I mean, do you gals get it multiple times every week?


And if I don't, I get really, really cranky.

SG, some advice: Stop stopping. Instead, when necessary, slow your cadence, even down to super-slo-mo speeds, and learn to rest _as _ you ride. Stopping makes your heart work harder on a ride by making it rev up, cool down, and rev back up again. You waste energy and you work harder. Learn to rest as you ride and not only will you find yourself stopping less often, your stamina will improve quickly. I promise.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Squirrel Girl said:


> But just saying "get over it" doesn't really help after the 58th time in the last couple of months.


Thanks for taking my answer well. You could have teed-off on my head.

The people who ask you have no idea that they're the 53rd person that day to ask the same question. They're looking out for you. I'd ask it more to an "older" lady than I would a 22 year old guy. Stereotyping? I guess, but don't get mad at me as I'm 17 years older than you. Respect your elders! I almost never get passed so I don't know the feeling that you're experiencing.

Please take their question in the manner in which it's offered. We don't want another preventable death on our hands (read the recent archives). Just say cheerfully "I'm fine but thanks for askin'." Always insert the last part of that answer.

If someone grumped at me "NO! Buggeroff!" I'd be cautious about asking the next person.


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## Maida7 (Apr 29, 2005)

I'm with the others on this one. Either they want to help you or there hitting on you. In any case they are just being friendly. 

If I'm stopped and a rider passes by I would expect to be asked if I need help or if I'm OK. I would think they were rude if they didn't ask. It's just good trail manners to try and help other riders.


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

Squirrel Girl said:


> Perhaps I should rephrase this thread and ask, "How many times per week, do you get asked regarding your well-being?" I'd be really curious about you all's experience.


If you mean my well-being while out on the trails, I'd have to say the number of times per week I get asked that question by a stranger is pretty near zero. But then again, I'm usually with my fiance or friends when I'm out riding (except for my commute, during which I rarely stop).

I think I'd get annoyed, too, if I were asked constantly, but I hope that I would be able to turn on my smile and say "I'm fine, thanks" to each one of them in turn. I do ask people on the trails who are stopped if they have everything they need, and numerous times I've ended up helping them out with a spare tube or the loan of a pump. I don't mean the question to be condescending, whether he or she is 15 or 105, skinny or fat, or anything in between.

Sadly, I wasn't able to help the guy who responded "A cold beer would be nice," but it made me laugh. You could always try that one.


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

I am 51 and get asked, "are you ok" several times when I take my one stop per ride. I always appreciate being asked if I am ok, even by hikers and equestrians, it makes me feel safe out there(I almost always ride alone, but on well used trails).

I am slow(thus my on screen name)so when someone comes up behind I move aside or tell the rider I will pull over 1st chance I get. I keep moving unless I am yielding for an uphill rider.

I learned years ago that onbike recovery is better than stopping and starting. My endurance is still building, even at my age, and in the last year or so my average speed has gone up, too. I was not improving until I began onbike recovery.

One other thing. Some people will not ask for help even when they need it, but an offer of help will not be turned down. Here in the desert heat people can get heat exhaustion which alters their good judgment. I mean, people die! I not only ask other mtb'ers if they are ok, I ask resting hikers as well.

So I suggest an attitude adjustment. Instead of feeling insulted or bothered, be grateful that complete strangers are looking out for you. It may save your life one day.

Rita


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

catzilla said:


> If all else fails, make a fold up cardboard sign that says, "Just Chillin'".
> 
> Take it out whenever you are taking a breather. When they ask if you need help, just say, "Nah man, I'm Just Chillin'".


That's great! I need one of those at work


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

I think most people tend to ask if everything is okay if they see a person stopped alone on the trail... I know I do. I don't ask people who pull over to let me by though (mostly because I'm usually the person being passed  )... I usually assume that if someone pulls over when I'm behind them, they're letting me pass, and just a "hello" will do.

Reactions vary... most people just say they're fine, but one time a guy who was stopped on the trail warned me about a snake, and another guy said "Yeah, I'm okay... I just suck". I guess the only way to avoid having people ask if you're okay when you're just pulling over to let them past is to keep on rolling and just move over rather than totally stopping.

- Jen.


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## pacman (Jan 16, 2004)

*puzzle*



catzilla said:


> If all else fails, make a fold up cardboard sign that says, "Just Chillin'".
> 
> Take it out whenever you are taking a breather. When they ask if you need help, just say, "Nah man, I'm Just Chillin'".


More options:

Carry a camera and pretend to take pictures.

Ride a road bike, there's never a need to pull over. 

N.B. I don't think I've ever seen 56 riders on a trail. What is it? A towpath?


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

Thanks for all your responses.

Could they be hitting on me??? It's possible, but I doubt it. Could they be thinking I'm the grandmotherly type that needs their help? I doubt that, too. It could be that I'm a tubby female who surely couldn't be competent in the outdoors. The place I get the most "Do you need helps" is at a park with a dedicated mtb trail (but it is not the only place by any means). It's very hilly. I go there because it's great exercise. In fact I lead the "Pokey" ride for my local club there every Wednesday after work. For various reasons, both my pokey ride, and the club's "moderate" ride are poorly attended (scheduling conflicts, and location too far away for most club members for after work riding).

But many of the people who ride that park use it for riding hard and fast. I think they're going too fast to fully register whom it is they're passing by. Also, it's not hard to hear the people coming up from behind. It really bugs me to have someone riding up my a**. I endoed on a super steep hill once when a good girlfriend who is not as fit as I, but is much better technically, came up behind. I could hear her getting closer and closer and it freaked me out, and I crashed (didn't get hurt, laughed, but didn't want to repeat it). So it might be that I've pulled over soon enough that the guys coming from behind have no idea that I've pulled over for them as they're concentrating on blasting on the trail. 

After asking some folks at work, I'll probably try a sign on my camelbak that says, "FINE, THANKS," but, I think the guys are going so fast that they may not be able to read it, even in big letters.

There's no doubt that I see this circumstance viewed through my personal filter. And that's one reason I reframed my question, "How often to you get your well-being inquired about?" No one's really answered that. I've always known I'm "different." I'm just curious how different in this respect.

And, yes, despite my original post where I pointed out the arrogance of the questioners, I do fully understand that they're in their own misguided way  trying to be helpful. I'll bet not one of them asked "Are you OK?" with the hope that I'm in trouble.

To summerize what several of you folks said, I agree that I really can't change what they say or do. Someday, when I have spare time on my hands (like when I'm dead), I will start a campaign to convince other riders to ask less judgmental questions of fellow trail users.  What I really need is a way for me to work out how to deal with this frustration. And I actually don't want to be mean. No doubt, there's sarcasm laced into a few of my potential responses. And to tell the truth, I'd much rather be funny than b*tchy!  

A friend at work gave me some very funny responses. I didn't write 'em down, unfortunately, and now I can't remember.


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## FreeRangeChicken (Jan 13, 2004)

Hello Kitty said:


> And if I don't, I get really, really cranky.
> 
> SG, some advice: Stop stopping. Instead, when necessary, slow your cadence, even down to super-slo-mo speeds, and learn to rest _as _ you ride. Stopping makes your heart work harder on a ride by making it rev up, cool down, and rev back up again. You waste energy and you work harder. Learn to rest as you ride and not only will you find yourself stopping less often, your stamina will improve quickly. I promise.


Like HK would know what its like to be passed by a guy. Pfffffft..... 

HK <= Hell on wheels


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## Dude (Jan 12, 2004)

*Ok so this happened to me*

Riding the road one day I come up on a very fit older guy. He was riding a pimped out tri-bike and looked in fantastic shape. We are riding the same pace so I spark up conversation. We start talking and I start to see him wane so I think I should stay with him. I off handily ask him, so how are you feeling today? He goes on to tell me that he got dropped by his group at mile thirty and is bonking. He has no gel and no food. I stop with him, give him my sharkies and make sure he rest. After a few minutes he insist that I get going. I let him know that I if I see his group " He told me the route " I would let them know of his condition. I didn't see them, so I never had the opportunity to tell anyone. I thought about him the whole ride, I even second guessed my decision to leave him. I got home told my wife, took a shower and we hoped in the car and headed out towards route I last saw him on. It bothered me for a week not knowing if he was ok, I even checked the local papers to see if anything was reported. Nope not a thing was reported. I got over it and I was happy to know that maybe and hopefully he made it back to his family and to see another day out riding.

I see your frustration but when you step back and review, things could be better, but at the same time they could be a lot worse. I will take a life time of that question verses the other 9 trillion problems in life.

I was thinking about the parents of the boy scouts this last week, and the parents of all the young service men that are fighting overseas. I was even thinking about Polaris since we haven't seen her on the board in some time. I ride my bike because of and for the people that have lost or are in a place that could take their life.

To tell you the truth I really wanted to answer this post with some really "smarty pants" comments but you ladies have too much class.


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

Squirrel Girl said:


> Thanks for all your responses.
> 
> Could they be hitting on me??? It's possible, but I doubt it. Could they be thinking I'm the grandmotherly type that needs their help? I doubt that, too. It could be that I'm a tubby female who surely couldn't be competent in the outdoors. The place I get the most "Do you need helps" is at a park with a dedicated mtb trail (but it is not the only place by any means). It's very hilly. I go there because it's great exercise. In fact I lead the "Pokey" ride for my local club there every Wednesday after work. For various reasons, both my pokey ride, and the club's "moderate" ride are poorly attended (scheduling conflicts, and location too far away for most club members for after work riding).
> 
> ...


I honestly don't think you are getting asked this because you look "unfit". Its because you are pulled over and not riding. It is not normal to be on a mountain bike and to stop riding it in mid trail. If I see someone not riding, the obvious question is "what's wrong?".

And no, I do not get this question asked of me often. Not because I look fit, but because I am seldom not riding. If I do pull over, and its not a spot where people typically stop to wait or rest, then yes, I get asked by almost everyone who passes if I am ok. And as a woman riding alone in the woods, I am grateful for that.

If you don't want to be asked, then take HK's advice and keep riding. I know what you mean about pulling over to let someone pass. But if you pull over, without stopping, I bet you won't get asked. Or, pull over, with one foot still clipped in and look ready to get right back on the trail.

Don't fret over this too much. As your skills and confidence improve, you will find less and less reasons to pull over and stop. And you won't have to deal with this pesky question.

Sabine


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## smw (Jun 22, 2005)

Sqirrel Girl, I like the way you've handled yourself here in this thread, I commend you.  I can see how this coould get annoying, most places I ride Im lucky if I run into 8 people in the coourse of the day, and that happens when there are 80 mtb on the trails. When we do bump into somebody stopped we always check with em, " hi, how ya doin" . Its a long ways back to the parking lot. But as others have said already, try to be polite. Not all outdoor people give a darn like the mtb community does, atleast where I live. Enjoy your ride, have fun, and remember its only because we care.


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## moonbeam (Dec 21, 2004)

Hello Kitty said:


> SG, some advice: Stop stopping. Instead, when necessary, slow your cadence, even down to super-slo-mo speeds, and learn to rest _as _ you ride.


Agreed. I don't expect people to stop for me when I pass them, nor do I generally stop when people pass me. I figure if people are passing me, they are likely better skilled (faster and technically better) than I am, so they can maneuver around me and vice verca.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Squirrel Girl said:


> To summerize what several of you folks said, I agree that I really can't change what they say or do. Someday, when I have spare time on my hands (like when I'm dead), I will start a campaign to convince other riders to ask less judgmental questions of fellow trail users.  What I really need is a way for me to work out how to deal with this frustration. And I actually don't want to be mean. No doubt, there's sarcasm laced into a few of my potential responses. And to tell the truth, I'd much rather be funny than b*tchy! A friend at work gave me some very funny responses. I didn't write 'em down, unfortunately, and now I can't remember.


SG, from the answers that have been given so far to your problem and your above paragraph in response, I think that you have an attitude problem that hasn't been tempered by everyone's (or anyone's) well-meaning answers. I feel that you're taking the trail riders' enquiries as a slight to your physical condition and/or sex. Personally I'd rather be insulted than ignored anyday, especially where my situation or even my life could be at risk.

Maybe you should keep riding and say "I'll let you by when it's safe to do so". That way no-one will assume that you might be in difficulty.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

I always ask people if they are ok.

Male or female.

For what its worth I have handed out more tubes to men than to women.

You don't have to pull over . They can pass, and should notify you when they intend to.

IFinally, it's ok to say "i'm just resting" when you pull over.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

no offense intended but i think you're being overly sensitive. if i see someone standing by the side of the trail i'd ask the same thing - 'are you ok?' or, if they look like they're fixing something, 'do you have everything you need?'. similarly, if i'm riding behind someone and they suddenly pull off to the side of the trail i'm liable to ask 'are you ok' and if they say 'yes' then i might say something like 'thanks for letting me by'. i think people are just being courteous to you. 

oh, and to answer your other question, i don't get asked very often but that's because i don't stand on the side of the trail very often. when i do, it is not uncommon for someone to ride by and ask if i'm ok or if i need anything. usually i just smile and say 'i'm fine!'. 

rt


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## namrita (Jun 1, 2005)

mtbr vs. roadie thing?  

two of us were riding road bikes near my house in atlanta several weeks ago, and i had a flat. too bad i didn't realize that both of us only had regular stem length tubes and my rims were deep dish...so I was SOL. a roadie happened to ride right by us as my bike was upside down so we started yelling and waving him down for help...he nodded and kept on riding...i couldn't believe it! i thought maybe he would circle back around to us...but..no...what a jerk  i had to sit there for 30 min. waiting for a ride. 

so, i'll take the courteous mtbr's over those other types anyday!


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

Squirrel Girl said:


> Thanks for all your responses.
> 
> There's no doubt that I see this circumstance viewed through my personal filter. And that's one reason I reframed my question, "How often to you get your well-being inquired about?" No one's really answered that. I've always known I'm "different." I'm just curious how different in this respect..


Well, um, I did answer the question: Several times when I take my one rest per ride. To be more specific, 3-6 times per ride. Good enough?

I am an older not so svelt rider, it never occured to me that that may be why people ask if I am ok. Heck, I ask anyone, male, female, young, old, biker, hiker, etc. if I see them trailside alone, so I always thought people asked me out of concern for my wellbeing, just as I ask others for the same reason.

Rita


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

I watched a heavy guy struggle up the mountain the other day...I mean if I am catching him he must be struggling. You can see him breathing hard (it was blowing dirt clouds on the ground ...jk) and I said the magic words

Anyway, biking is a fraternity....just making sure everyone is allright. Lose the weight and they won't bug you no more

oh and remember just to have fun and don't worry about what other people say


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

namrita said:


> mtbr vs. roadie thing?
> 
> two of us were riding road bikes near my house in atlanta several weeks ago, and i had a flat. too bad i didn't realize that both of us only had regular stem length tubes and my rims were deep dish...so I was SOL. a roadie happened to ride right by us as my bike was upside down so we started yelling and waving him down for help...he nodded and kept on riding...i couldn't believe it! i thought maybe he would circle back around to us...but..no...what a jerk  i had to sit there for 30 min. waiting for a ride.
> 
> so, i'll take the courteous mtbr's over those other types anyday!


That is SO rude! I once had a bad starter in my truck and had to rush over to the university to give an exam and I knocked on *8* doors in my neighborhood before someone would give me a jump. Even more so since then, I always try to go out of my way to help people in need unless I really, really can't. The lady who wouldn't even open the door to me and yelled at me though the bolted door that she had to go to the hairdresser was so lame.

We've got a newbie in our club. He went out with us last winter and it was basically him, the ride leader and me. The new guy kept falling over in the snow. We laughed *good naturedly* at him and encouraged him about what a great job he was doing on his first or second ride. He had such a good time, he took us out for beers afterward. I rewarded him with missing my barstool when I sat down (after not yet even finishing my first drink), landing on the floor and he's mercilously (and good naturedly) teased me ever since. Anyway, he rails against roadies and thinks mtbers are so much more friendly. I think so, too. Many folks do. He almost got in a fist fight with some roadies when they blew through a pack of walkers, then the roadie yelled obscenities at the walkers. But, in all, there's good ones and bad ones in every group.

I re-read the responses people posted. It's hard to keep track of them since the way this forum is organized, people respond to subthreads, and I'm *supposed* to be getting some work done at the office, so I shouldn't be spending too much time on mtb stuff and sorting through a LOT of responses that branch off in different directions. Not to mention the posts that go up while I'm in the middle of my responding. Anyway. My favorite suggestion was the one who said, "Yeah, a cold beer would be really good right now. Got one?" *Everyone* understands that. It's light hearted humor. Not mean.

It's only sometimes I am actually taking a breather. Other times, I'm just lettin' the folks go by. I *know* I don't have to, but it's like having someone tailgate me on the road. Makes me nervous. I don't have a problem with them going faster--more power to 'em... at least the mtbers, not the maniac drivers. So, no, I don't want take a camera out. However (evil grin), I do have another hobby, which I might participate in for a few moments while waiting for the speed demons to get by--but that's another thread..... 

And, to all the rest of you. DUH!    You bet. There are people with real problems in life. This is not a real problem. I think they have a name for this. It's called a "pet peeve." YES I'm making too big of a deal about it. But, by looking for a magic solution (like askin' for a beer), it might just go away!  That's the point of asking. (Again, lest anyone not recognize it by all the smilies, I'm writing this with good humor. AND agreeing with you, at least to an extent).

Thank you all for taking the time to write and express your opinions on the subject.


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

Besides the advice given regarding not stopping, you might try beating them to the punch. Out of curiosity, why is it every one seems to be getting the chance to enquire about your well being before you get the chance to say hi to them? Perhaps if as you slow/stop to let them by, you were to say, "How's it going?", it would do you some good.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

When I started biking, I was largely ignored by the hammerheads as they raced past me. 

As time went on (like a decade), I became the one passing people standing to the side of the trail. If they're just resting, I say "Hi," and maybe add a comment about the weather or what a bear that hill was. 

If they're hunched over a repair or tinkering with something, then I'll ask if they need anything (and if they need something I actually have, I'm *so* proud  )

What I love about the mtb community is how it's each rider against the trail, not so much each rider against the others.


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## wolftrack (Jul 28, 2005)

*considerate riders*



Squirrel Girl said:


> Ok, I've been mtbing for a little over 2 years now. I'm not very good, but I'm not awful. Here's my background. I've spent more time in the out-of-doors than a dozen mtbers together. I have spent over a year of my life living in a tent. I have a PhD in geology and did the field work for my thesis in the desert of Utah.
> 
> I'm now 45 years old and overweight, but ride regularly. I like to ride with my local club, but I also like to ride solo. Inevitably, if I ride solo on a popular trail, I pull over to let faster riders get by. About 90% of the time, as the guy goes by, he asks, "Are you OK?" or some variant such as, "Do you have everything you need?"
> 
> ...


______
I am a mtn. biker and a roadie. I find mtn. bikers are in general more friendly and considerate. Maybe due to general safety and just being away from the rat race.
I agree with a post below. If you ride a road bike very few will say anything even if you are on the side of the road with a flat. No offense to roadies, I love my road bike but there are many roadies that think they are on team Discovery


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## notrelatedtoted (Mar 3, 2005)

*Just curious...*

When you pull over, are you completely off your bike? Or straddling the top tube? I can see how it would get annoying, but consider the alternatives.

If I see someone pulled over, but still on the bike (obviously just taking a breather) I assume they're okay. If they're standing off the bike, bike on the ground, I ask if they need anything. I ask if they're ok because I've had a couple of experiences where I've had mechanical problems and no one so much as made eye contact. I once walked about three miles on the W&OD and not a single person stopped to ask if I needed a tube or something.

But, I've also helped people who "look" fine. I once ran into two girls (cue up the smooove jazz  ) out on the trail who were out for a run with their x-country team. I came upon them, and gave them a "how's it going?" I didn't expect an answer as they looked okay to me - they were just taking a rest. It was an early Saturday morning, and it turned out that one of them had a bit too much evening. They had gotten separated from their team by at least two or three miles, so they were completely alone. It was winter and the trail was empty - they were the only other people I had seen since I left the trailhead. The healthy one told me her friend was really dehydrated, and asked if I could spare some water or food. Her friend was obviously embarrassed, and I'm not sure they would have asked for help if I hadn't started the conversation. I gave them one of my bottles and a clif bar. The healthy one then kind of pulled me aside, and told me where their coach would be, and asked that I let him know where they were and that they were walking back, etc. After I found their coach, I met up with the girls again, gave them another one of my bottles, as she had just finished expelling the first one and the clif bar I gave her before. It wasn't a life or death situation, but you never know, and these girls really needed help. I was glad I asked, as her coach was totally unaware that they had been dropped. Since then, I usually try to give a "how ya doin" unless I'm sucking too much wind and can't speak.

Happy trails.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*It is emblematic of MTB'ers*

to do whatever it takes to keep the wheels rolling. These people offer to help, not because you are a fat ugly hippy lady, but because it is what they do out of concern. To deny that there is not some sexual role playing element, a la holding a door open for a lady, would be obtuse but in the end it is goodwill.
If you are going to load your guns to blast the next victim you might try," No thanks, I'm good."
A smile is nice, too.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*It is emblematic of MTB'ers*

to do whatever it takes to keep the wheels rolling. These people offer to help, not because you are a fat ugly hippy lady and anyone of that description stopped by the trail is CERTAINLY in need, but because it is what they do out of concern. Being stopped out and away fro civilization is not being stopped in front of the bike Shop. To deny that there is not some sexual role playing element, a la holding a door open for a lady, would be obtuse but in the end it is goodwill.
If you are going to load your guns to blast the next victim you might try," No thanks, I'm good."
A smile is nice, too.


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

Berkeley Mike said:


> to do whatever it takes to keep the wheels rolling. These people offer to help, not because you are a fat ugly hippy lady


Hey! Gimme a break! I'm not THAT bad of a dog  

I'm not beauty queen, but *some* men do find me attractive. I do have certain attributes!  



> If you are going to load your guns to blast the next victim you might try," No thanks, I'm good."
> A smile is nice, too.


That's the whole point of my original posting! I don't want to blast guns! I want to take a situation that I'm not happy with and inject some *humor* into. I rarely slip down into bad sarcasm, but it's happened a few times in this context. I'm looking to change that.

Heck! I'm smiling write now as I type this. Even chuckling to myself.

It's funny, though, that some people have a good sense of humor in responding to me regarding the topic. Others don't. I also have learned that many people just don't see things the way I do. I can agree to disagree. But it's a shame that some people refuse to even think that there might even be a little bit merit to what I say even when they ultimately think that asking if a person is in trouble is better than not asking.


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

notrelatedtoted said:


> When you pull over, are you completely off your bike? Or straddling the top tube? I can see how it would get annoying, but consider the alternatives.


It would take too much energy to climb off my bike. Nope, I just find a wide spot where I can get onto the "shoulder" and the person behind can safely pass without bumping into me.

And to repeat myself, since the tone of a number of people suggests (perhaps I'm wrong), that I advocate being rude, callous, or uncaring. Not at all! I highly urge people to be helpful and friendly. I like to be friendly and helpful, too! But there are a few cases where what apparently is well-intended can come across very differently depending on certain circumstance. Like being asked what's wrong with you about 50-60 times in a few months.



> Since then, I usually try to give a "how ya doin" unless I'm sucking too much wind and can't speak.


I've pulled over for people coming in the other direction on the trail. I've thought that they were rude to not say anything to me at all--like a very simple "thanks" or at least "hi" would have been in order. But then as they passed, I could tell they didn't have the breath, so I didn't give it another thought. I *certainly* have some experience in the "no extra lung capacity to speak" situation.



> Happy trails.


And likewise to you!


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*never, when I need it*



Squirrel Girl said:


> Perhaps I should rephrase this thread and ask, "How many times per week, do you get asked regarding your well-being?" I'd be really curious about you all's experience.


Hi B, s'up? I'll tell you, when I've been over to the side of the trail, bleeding, broken and dazed, I've had multiple people blow past me without saying a word (admittedly during a race). NOT THAT I AM BITTER OR ANYTHING! 
I generally just say hi when I pass, unless they are fiddling with their bike, at which point I give the standard "gotwatchaneed?" call. When passed for whatever reason when I'm good to go, I say "Just pathetic and slow" and that works for me.


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

MidAtlanticXCer said:


> Hi B, s'up? I'll tell you, when I've been over to the side of the trail, bleeding, broken and dazed, I've had multiple people blow past me without saying a word (admittedly during a race). NOT THAT I AM BITTER OR ANYTHING!
> I generally just say hi when I pass, unless they are fiddling with their bike, at which point I give the standard "gotwatchaneed?" call. When passed for whatever reason when I'm good to go, I say "Just pathetic and slow" and that works for me.


Alas! Your post is the epitome of rationality and proper emotional stability! IMHO! 

So *who* are you? Your profile says you're a physicist in Montgomery Village. Are you the guy I did trail work with at Hoyles Mill???? Ack. I can't remember your name. My humblist apologies. I gotta get out and ride HM again. Sweet trail! But I led that MORE ride to Seneca Greenway yesterday. We had such good time. The conditions are PERFECT. Do it now before it rains.

B, SG, Bam, Ara - take your pick!


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## SpareTireScott (Mar 31, 2004)

*the other option is...*

The other option is you could train your arse off this winter and be the one passing them asking if they are doing alright next year... 

Seriously though, in races with gigantic long hills before the turnaround it really gets old to hear everyone telling you "good job" as you struggle up the hill, panting so bad you can't say thanks... But they are being nice, and it's sure fun to tell others behind you the same as you bomb down while they are still climbing.


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## notrelatedtoted (Mar 3, 2005)

Squirrel Girl said:


> It would take too much energy to climb off my bike. Nope, I just find a wide spot where I can get onto the "shoulder" and the person behind can safely pass without bumping into me.


Hmmm. I think I can see, then, how it would get annoying if every person passing is asking if you're ok. I'd advoid a humerous respnse, however. (You don't sound like you're trying to justify being rude). I once tried something like that and it quickly turned into a fairly awkward situation. Suffice it to say that people don't hear so well when the wind is in their ears, they're panting, etc. etc. I specifically recommend that you avoid the phrase "typical Nebraska weather." (Just kidding about that part).


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

notrelatedtoted said:


> Hmmm. I think I can see, then, how it would get annoying if every person passing is asking if you're ok.


 Yeppers. It almost gets to make me wonder, "Omigod, what *is* wrong with me????" Ok, ok, there are *many* things wrong with me, but pulling over to let a speed demon by, ain't one of 'em.



> (You don't sound like you're trying to justify being rude).


Someone way back at the beginning of the thread made a comment, and I very much agree with it. Being negative is not a good thing. It's not good for *me* to be snotty. Let alone ruining someone else's day. Negative vibes are bad, and I'd rather avoid them.

It would be really hard for me to not make jokes. I just do that. I like to poke fun at everything, just about. Including myself (I am a pretty good candidate for poking fun at). But I really need to make sure I'm being good natured about any comeback, and not rude.



> Suffice it to say that people don't hear so well when the wind is in their ears, they're panting, etc. etc.


So true. Which is a reason I thought silence is a possible response. They're not really slowing down enough to hear what I have to say anyway. I may not have enough breath to answer, either. Then if they stop, I can make sure *they* aren't having any problems. Gad! They are going so fast. Maybe they are having an emergency and racing back to the parking lot? Do they need to use my cell phone? Worse yet! Is there something or someone chasing them? Do I have to run away, too???
   I told you. I do have a *terrible* time not making jokes.

On the other hand, I've learned that it's traditional trail etiquette to assume the worst about people's well being. Maybe I should say to h*** with my old way of thinking: be friendly, help if it's needed, assume all is OK unless otherwise indicated. Now I think I need to assume everyone is really just an inch away from disaster unless *I* make a concerted effort to save them! Dunnn, duh, duh, dah!!!!! Squirrel Girl to the rescue!!!!!!!    



> I specifically recommend that you avoid the phrase "typical Nebraska weather." (Just kidding about that part).


Huh??????????? Schwoop. Over my head.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Squirrel Girl said:


> Squirrel Girl to the rescue!


Now there's a 180 if ever I saw one. I have to ask..............are you ok?


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> Now there's a 180 if ever I saw one. I have to ask..............are you ok?


Bwahhh, hahhh, haahhhhh, hahhhh! Ya know, one of the guys in my local club read this thread and said he was *going* to ask me if I were OK on our next regular ride. It's not a problem when you are having a good time asking it. It's funny if you're makin' fun of poor little ole pathetic me  --- yeah, yeah, yeah, I *know*! There's nothin' little about me!

Hah, hah! Hah,hah, ha!


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## notrelatedtoted (Mar 3, 2005)

*Typical Nebraska Weather*

It's part of a joke. A guy in a bar uses the pick-up line, "tickle your a$$ with a feather?" If the pick up line was met with offense, he would claim that he said, "Typical Nebraska weather." I guess the joke is kind of obscure, and of course rendered very unfunny upon further explanation.


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

notrelatedtoted said:


> It's part of a joke. A guy in a bar uses the pick-up line, "tickle your a$$ with a feather?" If the pick up line was met with offense, he would claim that he said, "Typical Nebraska weather." I guess the joke is kind of obscure, and of course rendered very unfunny upon further explanation.


Minor chuckles upon explanation. And big "Doh!" and lightbulb of understanding. Actually, I may have heard that joke a decade or two ago.

Hey, now that I think about it, *that* IS a good response. Are you sure I can't use it???? Please!


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*I'm a chick, too*

Shannon from MORE. We've ridden with Pete a few times over at Schaeffer.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

Squirrel Girl said:


> B, SG, Bam, Ara - take your pick!


Babs?


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

*Ahem!?!?!?!?!?!?!*



Drewdane said:


> Babs?


Drew, baby! Glad to have you chime in here. Ever since that guy at that party thought we were a couple, I feel SO much like not having sex with you! Bwahhh, hhahh, hahhh, hahh! Sorry! I couldn't resist. After your other post in that other thread where you said married men were off the hook for sex, or some such thing, I couldn't resist!

Gad! Now THERE'S a topic for the Women's Lounge. Why many married women don't like to have sex. I've got my own personal viewpoint on that. But I've gotten myself into so much controversy just lately with posting on the internet, I'll leave that topic to someone else.

Babs? I personally think it's a dippy nickname, but if you *want* to call me Babs, I'll suddenly have a new-found fondness for it


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

DELETED - duplicate post


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

MidAtlanticXCer said:


> Shannon from MORE. We've ridden with Pete a few times over at Schaeffer.


Shannon??!?!?! Hokey smokes! It's been a year since then! You're that gal who was really good, if I recall.

And you're a physicist in Mongomery Village??!?!?!? How cool is that!

Alas, I moved over an hour away from Schaeffer after I used to live a few miles away, so I don't get there much anymore.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

Squirrel Girl said:


> Drew, baby! Glad to have you chime in here. Ever since that guy at that party thought we were a couple, I feel SO much like not having sex with you!


Damn, and here I was thinking such fond thoughts about *_ahem_* your "other" hobby! (Phwi-_KRAK_!)



Squirrel Girl said:


> Bwahhh, hhahh, hahhh, hahh! Sorry! I couldn't resist. After your other post in that other thread where you said married men were off the hook for sex, or some such thing, I couldn't resist!


I wrote that married men are off the hook for _talking about_ sex as one of the prescribed subjects for acceptable "male bonding"-type conversations! I didn't say married men were off the hook for _having_ sex (with their loving spouses, natch!) - or even wanted to be. Jeez...



Squirrel Girl said:


> Gad! Now THERE'S a topic for the Women's Lounge. Why many married women don't like to have sex ... I'll leave that topic to someone else.


Um, yeah - me too...



Squirrel Girl said:


> Babs? I personally think it's a dippy nickname, but if you *want* to call me Babs, I'll suddenly have a new-found fondness for it


Babs? You OK, Babs?


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

Drewdane said:


> Damn, and here I was thinking such fond thoughts about *_ahem_* your "other" hobby! (Phwi-_KRAK_!)


Ssssshhhhhhhhhh! I'm fairly new to this board, and these mtbr folks already think I'm a stark raving lunatic. You don't have to confirm it for them! Though, I'm proud of that hobby. And having defend myself having brought this subject up to begin with, I've realized what a fondness I have for those slightly off-base folks in that other hobby. I *like* 'em. They're neato, if a little peculiar.



> I wrote that married men are off the hook for _talking about_ sex as one of the prescribed subjects for acceptable "male bonding"-type conversations! I didn't say married men were off the hook for _having_ sex (with their loving spouses, natch!) - or even wanted to be. Jeez...
> 
> Um, yeah - me too...


I'm having computer troubles. I'm not sure if it's the mtbr server, or my system, or what. It takes about a minute or so everytime I click a link on this site, so I didn't bother open a new window and figure out exactly what you said. However, I've heard several married men lamenting that situation just lately. I was making *no* commentary on your personal situation. That's up to you. 



> Babs? You OK, Babs?


Ack! Phwit! What have I done to myself?!!?!?!? You and the guys are NEVER gonna let me live this one down, are you?????? 

Oh, well, as long as it's in good fun.......


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## crashjames (Mar 16, 2005)

*Fwiw*

No wonder men are so confused about women.

We think we're being nice by asking after a woman's wellbeing, and it's taken the wrong way.

Sigh...


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

crashjames said:


> No wonder men are so confused about women.
> 
> We think we're being nice by asking after a woman's wellbeing, and it's taken the wrong way.
> 
> Sigh...


Yeah. I have some sympathy for your predicament. There have been some significant changes in gender roles over the past few decades. I think we're still in flux. Some women like to be taken care of more than others. Some women like to be treated like human beings, more than a member of the "weaker sex." A city girl I know likes to have men buy her dinner. Not because he's her boyfriend (they're not hooked up), she just likes men to do that. Totally weird idea to me. One guy bought her a sofa, and he wasn't her boyfriend.

I have Ph.D. in science. I work in an aerospace research company. I fully expect that everyone, male or female, treat me with the respect I earn. I want no "allowances" because I'm a woman. I want no favors. I don't want to be dismissed as less of an engineer because a woman. I want to be treated like an engineer. Pretty much that seems to be the case. I have strengths. I have weakensses. Just like everyone else.

OK. Now I'm on the trail. I'm doing fine. I'm having no problems. Suddenly everyone is asking me, "Are you OK?" "Are you in trouble?" "Do you have everything you need?" I wonder if I've been transported to a different planet. "Uh. Yes. Why would you think anything else?" Is there something about me that in day to day life I'm treated like a human being, but when I go on the trail, I'm suddenly a lesser being? Only two times in the last 2 years can I think of non-trail instances where I've been assumed to be not fully in control of myself. Once when I put my commuting bike in the back of my pickup, a tiny woman thought I couldn't possibly do that myself, and once in the grocery store when the bagger wondered if I could carry a bag filled with groceries.

So, yes, I do have some appreciation of you thinking you're being nice and chastised for it. But can you see why I am made to feel like I'm on another planet?

And the next question is.... Is it only women who have advanced degrees in science who are capable and not wanting to be thought of as the weaker sex? Do the Nordstrom makeup artists like to be doted after and all the physical stuff done for them? Actually I think they do. But do you find them on the trail?

I'd be curious to know what others think about this. Most of my friends and co-workers (but only a few cyclists) understand exactly my opinion, though a subset of them agree with you all that the guys are simply being nice, but probably wouldn't have phrased it that way themselves.

Is it really so weird in the year 2005 that a woman in the US likes being treated like a person in the woods and not immediately assumed to be incompetent or perpetually in trouble?


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## crashjames (Mar 16, 2005)

*Men 101*



Squirrel Girl said:


> OK. Now I'm on the trail. I'm doing fine. I'm having no problems. Suddenly everyone is asking me, "Are you OK?" "Are you in trouble?" "Do you have everything you need?" I wonder if I've been transported to a different planet. "Uh. Yes. Why would you think anything else?" Is there something about me that in day to day life I'm treated like a human being, but when I go on the trail, I'm suddenly a lesser being? Only two times in the last 2 years can I think of non-trail instances where I've been assumed to be not fully in control of myself. Once when I put my commuting bike in the back of my pickup, a tiny woman thought I couldn't possibly do that myself, and once in the grocery store when the bagger wondered if I could carry a bag filled with groceries.
> 
> So, yes, I do have some appreciation of you thinking you're being nice and chastised for it. But can you see why I am made to feel like I'm on another planet?
> 
> ...


Men 101:

Your reply reminds me of a seminar I was in once. The presenter talked about the difference between men's brains and women's brains. In women's brains, there is a fiber-optic, superhighway between the two halves, enabling women to process a myriad of tasks, thoughts, and feelings simultaneously. Men on the other hand have a singletrack dirt path between the two halves.

I guess what I'm saying is that I highly doubt that the men you're referring to on the trails put much thought into their queries at all. I doubt anyone's trying to "make" (remember, no one can make you feel anything) you feel like you're an alien.

I will say this - MTBers know all too well that there are many dangers in the sport, and many feel a responsibility to make sure everyone on the ride/trails makes it through ok. So, when we see newcomers on our rides, of course we ask. I can't tell you how many people get in over their heads on trails and end up hurt or stranded. As many have said here and on other threads, many of us males have had our a$$es handed to us by strong female riders.

So in a way, you are in a different world, with different conventions. When in Rome...

Anyway, it's just a response. You'll be much happier if you take it that way, rather than an indictment of your abilities or gender.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Squirrel Girl said:


> I have Ph.D. in science.


When I come across someone stopped on the trail miles from anywhere - male OR female - I can't tell if they have a Ph.D in science or they have a Ph.D like mine - in Posthole Digging. I won't bother finding out, but, despite your attitude, and apparent 2nd 180 on the subject, I won't be put off from asking if they are ok. Maybe my low functioning brain doesn't allow me to over analyze the situation.

If I ever ask you, just tell me to eff-off.


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*what an awesome analogy*



crashjames said:


> In women's brains, there is a fiber-optic, superhighway between the two halves, enabling women to process a myriad of tasks, thoughts, and feelings simultaneously. Men on the other hand have a singletrack dirt path between the two halves.


That is a fantastic analogy - love it!


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

Squirrel Girl said:


> And the next question is.... Is it only women who have advanced degrees in science who are capable and not wanting to be thought of as the weaker sex? Do the Nordstrom makeup artists like to be doted after and all the physical stuff done for them? Actually I think they do. But do you find them on the trail?


What in the world would a PhD in Science have to do with it?

I adore it when men do things for me. I am of course, quite capable of doing many things on my own. I am independent to a fault. But, if a man offers, I don't take it as an insult to my capabilities, I take it as an opportunity to watch a man do something they enjoy, helping out a woman. And its one less grungy icky thing that I have to do.

I am perfectly happy to have a man change my tire, work on my shifting or my brakes, lift my bike over a tree, unclog my toilet, hang a door, empty the mouse trap, move furniture, and YIKES even hold the door open. I never once get the impression that the men doing this for me don't understand full well that I am insanely intelligent, strong as all get out, and that I can kick some butt up and down the trail.

The feminist movement went somewhere terribly wrong when it made chivalry a bad thing.

Sabine


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## brg (Sep 7, 2004)

Squirrel Girl said:


> OK. Now I'm on the trail. I'm doing fine. I'm having no problems. Suddenly everyone is asking me, "Are you OK?" "Are you in trouble?" "Do you have everything you need?" I wonder if I've been transported to a different planet. "Uh. Yes. Why would you think anything else?" Is there something about me that in day to day life I'm treated like a human being, but when I go on the trail, I'm suddenly a lesser being?
> So, yes, I do have some appreciation of you thinking you're being nice and chastised for it. But can you see why I am made to feel like I'm on another planet?


I think people are being nice and could care less if you are woman. Like people pointed out earlier - they don't know they are the 50th person that asked you the same question.

However, this post has made me hestiant to ask people if they are ok. For example at the mtbr RMH gathering this weekend - I'd be riding behind a guy and out of the blue they'd pull over(this happened a few times) - my first reaction was "are you ok?" but thinking I "might" offend them (esp since I'm a woman and this post was on the brain) I just said "hey - how's it going" as I passed.



Squirrel Girl said:


> And the next question is.... Is it only women who have advanced degrees in science who are capable and not wanting to be thought of as the weaker sex? Do the Nordstrom makeup artists like to be doted after and all the physical stuff done for them? Actually I think they do. But do you find them on the trail?


WTF?? You sure are making generalizations here about women and their professions. One of my friends works in a spa and besides being a total bad-ass on a mtn bike - I'm sure she doesn't want to be thought of as the "weaker sex" - why would you think otherwise just because she puts makeup on people?

You sure are making it a BIG point over and over again about how intelligent you are and your degrees - maybe you should put a sign on your back when riding saying "I am an engineer, have a Ph.D. and don't need any help - don't bother asking"   



Squirrel Girl said:


> I'd be curious to know what others think about this. Most of my friends and co-workers (but only a few cyclists) understand exactly my opinion, though a subset of them agree with you all that the guys are simply being nice, but probably wouldn't have phrased it that way themselves.


I THINK people are being nice - so don't take it personally OR over analyze.



Squirrel Girl said:


> Is it really so weird in the year 2005 that a woman in the US likes being treated like a person in the woods and not immediately assumed to be incompetent or perpetually in trouble?


I don't think people are "immediately assuming" you are incompetent - they are just checking on the well being of a fellow mtn biker. I'm flaggergasted that would be what you think people think. That thought doesn't cross my mind when I ask people if they are ok or need help OR when others ask if I'm ok.


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## smw (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabine said:


> What in the world would a PhD in Science have to do with it?
> 
> I adore it when men do things for me. I am of course, quite capable of doing many things on my own. I am independent to a fault. But, if a man offers, I don't take it as an insult to my capabilities, I take it as an opportunity to watch a man do something they enjoy, helping out a woman. And its one less grungy icky thing that I have to do.
> 
> ...


 I agree with Sabine. Being a man i can think of many reasons why I would do something for a woman. Just to be nice, flirt, socialize, just to be polite, meet somebody I didnt already know, did I mention flirt. I dont usually say to myself, shes a woman and she isnt capable. The answer is I never do that. I for one am a simple creature( as I always tell my wife) what I say is what I mean, nothing more nothing less. If I ask, "are you alright?" Im being courtious, has nothing to do with you being a woman, I ask the same of a man if I see him by himself on the side of the trail.
I can understand, with so many people asking this to you, how you could wonder whats up? Do I have a sign on my back or what? So let it go and enjoy your rides.


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

brg said:


> I think people are being nice and could care less if you are woman.


In large measure I agree. I was just yesterday responding to the guy who asked, "No wonder guys are confused when we're just trying to be nice to women" (or words to that effect).



> Like people pointed out earlier - they don't know they are the 50th person that asked you the same question.


That is true. And that's why I'm lookin' for something not rude to say, yet allows me to vent frustration.



> However, this post has made me hestiant to ask people if they are ok. For example at the mtbr RMH gathering this weekend - I'd be riding behind a guy and out of the blue they'd pull over(this happened a few times) - my first reaction was "are you ok?" but thinking I "might" offend them (esp since I'm a woman and this post was on the brain) I just said "hey - how's it going" as I passed.


I'm more trying to come up with a way for me to handle my pet peeve. I think I'd really be driving myself nuts if I tried to convince other people what to say. So I guess, you should say what you think is best. Certainly, no matter what, someone will get offended sometime. Just like I've offended probably 95% of the mtbr forum already. I've tried to be frank and honest and respect others' viewpoints, even when I disagree. Once in a while I slip up on that. I apologize that I have done that. BTW, was it painful to ask "Hey, how's it going?" Did the person respond badly? Should I learn that I've that I am making a terrible social faux pax by using that wording? Now I'm beginning to doubt that what seems sane to me really is.



> WTF?? You sure are making generalizations here about women and their professions. One of my friends works in a spa and besides being a total bad-ass on a mtn bike - I'm sure she doesn't want to be thought of as the "weaker sex" - why would you think otherwise just because she puts makeup on people?


Good for you (and her!)!  I'm glad to see that there are women from all walks of life who are total bad-a** mtb bikers! And I'm glad to see you makin' a point that they are great. That reference was a trip I made cave diving. A guy brought his wife who was a Nordstrom makeup artist and her best friend with the same profession. They were mostly going along because of the men. They let (expected?) the men drag the tanks around, set everything up for them, and so on. I finally let the men do it for me from time to time because I seemed to be fighting a tidal wave and it was easier to not stir up trouble by being every bit involved as the men were. I hasten to add, that regardless of their dedication to the diving, it is not a judgment on the women as people. They were nice and in the big world, that's a great thing.

One thing with this posting stuff is that I'm already typing enormously long posts. And even so, I can't get my thoughts out preventing every misunderstanding ahead of time. So by necessity I generalize. I applaud you greatly for pointing out things that come across in a way that might denegrate others. I think it's fantastic that you are giving examples of competent woman. Go girl! I'm sure that both she and you are orders of magnitude better cyclists than I am.



> You sure are making it a BIG point over and over again about how intelligent you are and your degrees - maybe you should put a sign on your back when riding saying "I am an engineer, have a Ph.D. and don't need any help - don't bother asking"


I understand that that might come across as snotty. My apologies. BTW, I hearby declare a few of the many things I'm bad at: I'm a slow cyclist. I'm not especially mechanical (I do software/data stuff, not hardware). I can't secure a canoe to a truck to save my life. I'd starve before I could make a tortilla by hand (hmm, maybe I should try that as a dieting technique). As EVERYBODY has, I've got things I'm good at, and things I'm bad at. So I'm curious as to why I find this a weird situation and nearly all the rest of you don't? And I think that my technical background might be a big factor. Or perhaps it's my midwestern Lutheran upbringing. THAT is why I note it. And most of my girlfriends are scientists and outdoors women, too. So we may be in a very skewed subset of women in general. I am gathering data.



> I THINK people are being nice - so don't take it personally OR over analyze.


Yeppers, overanalyzing is a characteristic I have. Actually, that makes me really good at parts of my job. It causes me problems in other facets of my life.



> I don't think people are "immediately assuming" you are incompetent - they are just checking on the well being of a fellow mtn biker. I'm flaggergasted that would be what you think people think. That thought doesn't cross my mind when I ask people if they are ok or need help OR when others ask if I'm ok.


So, since I'm clearly in the wrong about this, even though it doesn't make sense to me, I need help about asking when people need help. When do I say "Hi!", and when do I ask, "What's wrong? Do you have everything you need?" So far, I've only asked when people have had bike parts in their hands, or, for instance, that guy I saw lying face-in-the-dirt on the side of the trail, motionless. Obviously, now, in those rare cases where someone actually pulls over for me (it's happened, but not very often), I will file it away that "Thank you" isn't sufficient. I now need to ask them if they are in need of help? Right? If two people are on the side of the trail with their bikes having a conversation and before I wouldn't have wanted to interrupt them because, to me, *that* would have been rude, should I now make sure they are OK, regardless of all other concerns. Or if they're on the phone?

What about people who don't come to a stop, but whom I overtake? Are they people I need to ask if they're in trouble? I usually call out, "On your left" in those infrequent times I pass them. And possibly, a "Hi, nice day?" or something, too. What about people coming from the other direction? Do I ask each of them if they have everything they need? So far, I don't seem to remember that in crossing in opposite directions that anyone has asked me about my well-being. So I guess I'm off the hook with that one.

How about pedestrians? Last Sunday I led a ride and we passed a lot of people on foot. They'd step to the side, and I'd always call out brightly and gratefully, "Thaaaaank you! " Since I'm always sweeping, I'd also let them know, "I'm the last one" so they know they don't have to worry about anyone else on a bike coming along (with our group). Should I change my greeting to ask them, "Are you in trouble? Do you need help?"

What about the mtbers who pass me? Should I inquire about their well being?

On the one hand, what I've asked is a little silly. But on the other hand, it's not. I've been told I'm not doing things the mountain bike way, so I guess I have to ask dumb questions or I'll never learn.


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## crashjames (Mar 16, 2005)

*Mountain Way 101*

The mountain way is not unlike The Way (Tao)

Chill....Enjoy....

The roadie way, on the other hand, is...

There's a map....see you at the parking lot if you get dropped

(Disclaimer: currently ride more road than dirt, happily married)


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

Squirrel Girl said:


> So, since I'm clearly in the wrong about this, even though it doesn't make sense to me, I need help about asking when people need help. When do I say "Hi!", and when do I ask, "What's wrong? Do you have everything you need?" So far, I've only asked when people have had bike parts in their hands, or, for instance, that guy I saw lying face-in-the-dirt on the side of the trail, motionless. Obviously, now, in those rare cases where someone actually pulls over for me (it's happened, but not very often), I will file it away that "Thank you" isn't sufficient. I now need to ask them if they are in need of help? Right? If two people are on the side of the trail with their bikes having a conversation and before I wouldn't have wanted to interrupt them because, to me, *that* would have been rude, should I now make sure they are OK, regardless of all other concerns. Or if they're on the phone?
> 
> What about people who don't come to a stop, but whom I overtake? Are they people I need to ask if they're in trouble? I usually call out, "On your left" in those infrequent times I pass them. And possibly, a "Hi, nice day?" or something, too. What about people coming from the other direction? Do I ask each of them if they have everything they need? So far, I don't seem to remember that in crossing in opposite directions that anyone has asked me about my well-being. So I guess I'm off the hook with that one.
> 
> ...


There's that overanalyzing thing again, huh?

Sabine


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## brg (Sep 7, 2004)

Sabine said:


> There's that overanalyzing thing again, huh?
> 
> Sabine


couldn't have said it better myself.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Squirrel Girl said:


> That is true. And that's why I'm lookin' for something not rude to say, yet allows me to vent frustration.


You could use "YES" in response to "Are you ok" without offending. In regard to "vent your frustration", I think you are in the wrong sport, since so many people that enjoy mountain biking feel a real kinship for one another, and truly _CARE_ for each other's well being. My theory is it comes from the willingness to sweat, get dirty, and suffer. 

I'm also glad that you do not live near where I ride so I am not concerned about ruffling your superior intellictual feathers..... 

I frequent a bike shop here on the Left Coast whose logo is *Shut up and Ride!*
I think Shut up and Rest works too.


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## wunderhorn (May 13, 2005)

Squirrel Girl said:


> What do you recommend I say?


Okay, this thread has probably been pretty well worked to death, but I have two trail-side strategies for stopping without generating attention/concern:

1) Head into the woods to pee. I realize this is a much more limited strategy for the Women's Lounge, but it has a lot of benefits and done right can be effected by either sex. It takes just about the right time to check out your surroundings and give yourself a little rest. By its nature it discourages polite third party interference. And nothing about it suggests to the curious observer that you need help.

2) Pose. This is a variation on those who suggested resting on the top tube instead of standing around, or carrying a "just chillin" sign. Essentially you want to adopt a pose of quasi-arrogant neglect. Any of the poses pro cyclists adopt while waiting for call-ups at the start line is appropriate. Favorites include sitting on the top tube with your elbows on your bars, standing perpendicular to the bike with your leg draped casually over the saddle, and sitting sidesaddle on the tob tube with your legs stretched out Lazyboy style. Appear to be contemplating only how fit and tan you are. Baseball players are the absolute pros at these lazy/don't bother me/nothing's wrong poses; that's what you want to emulate. No one would come up to George Brett on the trail, sitting on the top tube of his mtb contemplating a tree, maybe chewing lazily on some Red Man, and ask "is everything all right?". If anyone says anything, adopt that slow, ridiculously calm Texas drawl that airline pilots and air traffic controllers use on the radio. Instead of saying "United 47 heavy, turn left 15 degrees," slowly drawl "Nah, just chillin."

One or both of these strategies usually does the trick.


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## crashjames (Mar 16, 2005)

*Shut up and Ride!*



slocaus said:


> I frequent a bike shop here on the Left Coast whose logo is *Shut up and Ride!*
> I think Shut up and Rest works too.


I believe this is the correct answer. Amber does too.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Dogs *always* know the best thing to say....


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

Sabine said:


> What in the world would a PhD in Science have to do with it?
> 
> I adore it when men do things for me. I am of course, quite capable of doing many things on my own. I am independent to a fault. But, if a man offers, I don't take it as an insult to my capabilities, I take it as an opportunity to watch a man do something they enjoy, helping out a woman. And its one less grungy icky thing that I have to do.
> 
> ...


 Ah - well put. Sounds like you've got a PhD in the ever illusive _common sense_, Sabine my friend...

Courtesy isn't what the feminist movement was fighting, I hope - though most of that battle seems lost given the reversion to "family values" and such political hooey. I know more ex-professional stay at home moms now than you can shake a stick at. What happened? Seems like my moms generation ran circles around todays version of feminism and the "working moms" revolution... maybe it's just an indication of societal shifts towards smothering junior every waking second - I truley don't know.

Imagine the horror if one were to transplant my 1970's style upbringing to the here-and-now; mom leaves for work before I need to go to school, so I lock the door on the way out, ride my bike, (unhelmeted - un-reflectored - un-lawyer tabbed at that!!!) no cell phone, no gps transponder or bike lanes, on busy city roads to my school, go to school, then come home, unlock the door myself, make some food, start homework or play or whatever for a few hours (unsupervised!!!) then eat dinner with the family. My folks surely would be arrested, and my mother frowned upon nowadays.... sad. Whole other topic, sorry to digress.

Funny(ish), true, recent story (related to this thread):
On a solo ride here in Santa Fe 2 weeks ago, I blew a rear tire out on a local trail. Pretty far "out there", but well traveled typically. I was off to the side, rear wheel on the ground, tire off rim, latex sealant all over the place and one defective CO2 cyclinder on me, in addition to the one good one. Biker approaches, whooshes by, and is gone. Not a peep. It was a woman, dammit!  Had she (or anyone else) stopped or asked if I was OK, I'd have asked if they wouldn't mind letting me use their pump or at least hang for a sec while I inflated my last tube with my last CO2, making sure I was functioning again... maybe she was a little nervous and out alone, so I let it go at that.


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

brg said:


> You sure are making it a BIG point over and over again about how intelligent you are and your degrees - maybe you should put a sign on your back when riding saying "I am an engineer, have a Ph.D. and don't need any help - don't bother asking"


 Flucking brilliant brg! I'm still laughing my lowly BARCH ass off my chair.


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## Objectionable Material (Sep 29, 2004)

Squirrel Girl said:


> Am I the only human being on the planet who gets peppered with this question multiple times every week? What do you recommend I say?


Hey SG.

You need a big strong man to help you with anything?  Bwhahahahhahahahahahha

Sorry Barbara. I just couldn't contain myself. 

LOve,

PEte

PS: It was dang nice riding with you tonight. Sorry I've been away so long.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2005)

Squirrel Girl said:


> Ok, I've been mtbing for a little over 2 years now. I'm not very good, but I'm not awful. Here's my background. I've spent more time in the out-of-doors than a dozen mtbers together. I have spent over a year of my life living in a tent. I have a PhD in geology and did the field work for my thesis in the desert of Utah.
> 
> I'm now 45 years old and overweight, but ride regularly. I like to ride with my local club, but I also like to ride solo. Inevitably, if I ride solo on a popular trail, I pull over to let faster riders get by. About 90% of the time, as the guy goes by, he asks, "Are you OK?" or some variant such as, "Do you have everything you need?"
> 
> ...


Wow how rude, the next time your chain snaps I hope you are stuck there while everyone just drives by.


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## fish-on-a-bike (Jul 6, 2005)

*squirrel babe*

Squirrel Girl, You need to get in touch with your Inner Babe. First of all, you must realize that however mature and curvy you are, you are an Atheletic Babe because you are out there on your mountain bike, not at home eating bonbons in front of the TV. If you are not certain of this I suggest you go swimming. Yes, go swimming, like I do, in a municpal swimming pool full of hundred year old jellyfish. Look at them in the shower and know that when you are truly ancient you will look back on when you were 40 or 50 or whatever you are now and see that you were a babe. Don't wait till then to know this.

Once you get in touch with your Inner Babe you will know that all these guys are just looking for an excuse to say something to you because they have been following your fine curvalicious butt down the trail and now they are wistful at being forced to pass you and lose the view. Sure they would love to stop and help a babe like you, but you are just fine on your own, and my goodness you can't give your attention to every guy that tries to talk to you or you wouldn't have time to ride.

Your Inner Babe will inspire you to smile sweetly at the poor lads as they sail by. You might even feel like bursting into Big Gay Al's song from the Southpark movie, "I'm super, thanks for asking!"


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