# DIY Pogies - Patterns/plans?



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The wife and I are looking to add a couple pairs of pogies for more comfortable winter riding. I am not thrilled with the ones I've been looking at otherwise, either. Various aspects leave me unexcited.

I was looking at this old thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/diy-pogies-563134.html

I'm handy with a sewing machine and I have some leftover fabric scraps from a sleeping bag quilt project I did several years ago (made his & hers 20deg down quilts) that I could use for a pogie project. Pogies look to be infinitely easier than sewing baffles for down bags and calculating/measuring down quantity for each baffle.

I sure could use some patterns, though. The thread above has plenty of pictures and those are helpful, but those don't tell the whole story.

Namely, I'm curious about the shape and placement of stiffeners that people are using in theirs. I could mock up what I need for the external bits, but it's the hidden elements I'm unclear about. Also, material options for stiffeners would be helpful for folks who have done DIY pogies.


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## AKCheesehead (Apr 30, 2008)

Might see if you are able to borrow a pair from someone in your area if there is any to help start with a pattern...

Curious as to what you don't like about current Pogies?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

some combination of cost, materials, features.

VERY few people in my area have them. And of those that do, I have already examined them.

Basically, what I'm looking to do is have sealed seams (lots of wet snow here, not a lot of dry powder), waterproof outer, heavy cordura in wear areas, thin synthetic insulation (not oftentimes THAT cold), slippery liner fabric (I have spare momentum 90 DWR fabric that would be perfect for this), and maybe a drawstring baffle/cuff for the arm opening depending on my mock-ups. My wife probably will also need a little more insulation in hers than I put in mine because she runs cold.

Stuff that has this combination of features tends to cost a ton. I have more time than cash (building up that Bucksaw tapped me out for awhile), so I can spend time (which I have), but not as much cash. DIY works well for that. Where I want to see plans relates to stiffeners people use. I read about it in the other DIY thread, but nobody offered decent pics to illustrate the shape or placement of their stiffeners.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

Build up some designs out of posterboard and tape and use those for patterns. If you want waterproof, the less seams the better. I would stick with one fabric for the shell, one piece if you can. my pogies from Dogwood uses a relatively thin hdpe stiffener across the 'back of the hand' area and that's it. Works really well. Stiff enough to maintain the shape, but leaves enough flexibility to roll them down if it's too warm for part of the ride. If the outer is truly waterproof, and you put a baffle over the cables(soft foam or scrunched up fabric), you won't need much insulation at all in temps above 0F.


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

Get someone who has a set of Dogwoods to let you take them apart to get your patterns and then sew them back together. :skep:


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

Deleted


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## Canoe (May 10, 2011)

I've been wondering about the foil covered bubble wrap as a suitable material somewhere in there. 

As real cheap DIY Poggies, using that material:
- cut an airfoil rib shape and screw it onto the end of the handle bar, 
- have a second rib and cut a slit up it, or a small hole with enlarging slits, so it can fit over the bar so it's inboard of the grip, shifter and brake lever,
- skin the ribs like it's an airfoil surface, taped to the ribs with aluminum tape,
- tape the trailing edge closed where you don't need to get your gloved/mitted hand in,
- it's somewhat stiff, and it will block the wind, provide some insulation & reflect heat back to your hands,
- add a shell of your choice to make it look fancy, or to provide an easily closable seal to the inboard bar or the opening for your hand. 

That's pretty much my second pass (first pass was without ribs, just a wrap), but without working out details.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I'm moving forward with my plan to make my own pogies. I'll be doing the cardboard mock-up method, followed by sewing them myself. I've been doing as much reading as I can, but I'm not finding great writeups on other people's DIY pogies. The best writeups/photos I've seen have been from cut-down kids' jackets, and that's not what I'm looking for. I think I have a pretty good idea of the materials I intend to use, except for maybe some of the little details, which I haven't quite ironed out yet.

I think I'm also going to buy enough fabric for some bikepacking gear bags to use in the warmer months. My Bucksaw doesn't have the best space in the frame for a frame bag (though Salsa/Revelate does make one), so I'm not going to focus on a frame bag. The commercially available one looks complicated enough (and small enough) that I don't think I'll bother. If I want one, I'll just buy it. I think I'll be doing a seat bag and then a handlebar bag.

When I'm finished, I'll be using my cardboard mock-ups as guides to make patterns that that will get saved as .pdf documents folks can print off and use for their own projects, and I'll be doing a writeup with photos to put on my website for the how-to.

Thankfully I have a mountain of cardboard in the basement that I can cannibalize for this.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Yo.

You're cool. Good luck, can't wait to see pics.

Don't let anyone tell you that you can't. Ever.


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

Rockywoods.com is fantastic for materials, they even have samples of all of the different types of insulation.


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## Jaredbe (Aug 6, 2007)

When it is warm enough for wet snow it is for me often too warm for pogies. I encourage good vent options in the design. In addition to keeping hands warm I think what I like most about pogies is the ability with venting to adjust to make sure I am comfortable in all exertion levels and temps. Gloves are often too warm or cold and don't hit the sweet spot as well as pogies that have good vent options. By good vent options I mean things as simple as my dogwoods being adjustable at the bar and wrist to let in more or less cold air. 45norths have fancier methods I think. Sounds like a great project.


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## NorthernMN (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm excited for your project. It sounds really cool. Make sure you let us know how it's going!


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## fotooutdoors (Jul 8, 2010)

Fwiw, I would second Rocky woods. I just made some pogies using the tan military spec cordura for the main body, cheap coated nylon for cuffs. Insulated with a floating fleece liner of the same shape. Usually the cuffs are not cinched and folded into the main body.

Personally, I think it best to measure what size of pogies you need for your grips/controls. Though my thoughts are likely colored by the fact that I made mine for a midge (dirt drop) bar.


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## anomad (Nov 16, 2009)

I made my own pogies using cardboard to make my template for the size and shape I was aiming for. For the shell and liner I used supplex (a thin mostly windproof nylon or poly fabric?). In between I used quilted thinsulate. For stiffness I added some thin craft foam "tubes". Attachment was a simple fabric strip tied around the handlebars. Turned out really well, but in the end I preferred mittens... If I were to try it again I'd use a goretex type shell and adjust insulation with my glove choice and a wire sewn into the pogies to bend for a suitable opening. 

My hands run hot. I was snowshoeing today with no gloves at all, as a reference..

Edit: I used Seattle fabrics. Its been years since I ordered fabric, but they had good service and selection back then.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I know of several fabric shops. Quest, Rockywoods, Seattle, all have been in my bookmarks for MANY years. Also thru-hiker, but browsing through their selection, I don't think I'm going to be using too many ultralight fabrics like they carry. I do have some UL fabric scraps left over from a previous project I will see if I have enough to use for this project, though.

I'm debating between using Thinsulate or Primaloft for insulation. I'm going to use coated Cordura for the shell. It will be water resistant enough, I think, to handle melting snow, and I will probably seal the seams on the shell before attaching it to the liner/insulation. I have an idea about how I'll do abrasion-resistant panels on the front/side, also. I think my cardboard mock-up will help me figure out the shapes I want to use for the panels. The stiffeners will be the big unknown and I probably won't be able to work those out until I have some fabric sewn up into the shapes I want. I may use something cheap in the dollar/yd clearance section at the local fabric shop to do some experimenting with actual fabric.

I have a couple ideas for adding ventilation. One is to put a water resistant zipper on the front or top surface that can be opened. Another would be to have a velcro panel with a plastic stiffener prop that could hold it open. Seems to me the zipper would be a little more adjustable and reliable, but slightly more work to sew. The stiffener prop could be rather annoying inside when not being used. I am leaning towards the zipper.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

v. 0.1, Cardboard mockup v. 1.0

Sketched out the basic layout, including the important parts of the controls


Checking positioning


After sketching and cutting out the panels. I am going with a 4 panel design. It will easily allow me to put a small zipper near the leading edge to use as a vent. I am thinking about how I'm going to handle the stiffening elements and I think this will give me good control over the positioning of the stiffeners. I have a few ideas about the location and shaping of them.

One idea is to shape the stiffening element like a brush guard over the grip itself, possibly using a cut bottle. That seems as though it won't do anything for the hand opening, though. So another thought would be to include a small stiffener that follows the forward panel, which will be made of a heavier duty cordura for abrasion resistance. I am also thinking about a small piece that creates a circle around the hand opening to keep it open. After doing this mockup, I see why many of the nicer commercial models attach to the grip/handlebar end plugs to keep them in place. I'm thinking about doing something similar. Since I use ODI grips, I'm thinking about ordering a spare set of end caps that will permanently attach to the pogie and hold them pretty securely in place. That does potentially create issues if I ever decide to switch grips, though, so I'm still thinking about something that might be more modular.





The first iteration wasn't bad. Two major issues, aside from needing to figure out how I want to attach them to the bar end plugs. First is that the opening at the bar isn't quite large enough. I've made some notes to myself about making that bigger. My hand seems to have enough room inside to move around, so that doesn't appear to need changing. It does seem like the cuff could be longer, also, so I made notes about that.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

An attachment at the bar end is important IMO. Keeps the pogie from sagging and generally in the same location when you need to get back to the bar quickly after blowing your nose in between technical sections. Could be as simple as a rare earth magnet sewn/glued into the pogie and a metal bolt run through the bar end cap.

I think I mentioned it in the other thread. For stiffeners I'd try plastic needlepoint mesh sheets. Not sure exactly what it is called. My grandmother used to use it stitched with yarn to make decorations. Can bend and shape it as you like. Use it in the wrap around brushguard area like you mentioned to give shape to the outer profile and help the cuff stand up and open.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I was going to make mine too, but Bar Mitts are cheap.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

yeah, that needlepoint mesh stuff will probably be what I use as a stiffener. It's light, will offer some support without being too rigid, and still allow me to fold them up.

I like the magnet at the bar end idea. Not sure I'd run a bolt through my bar end caps, but I might epoxy another magnet there so I'd only need to buy the little rare earth magnets and sew them into the pogies so they don't move around. Thanks for that idea. That's really slick and addresses the modularity I'm looking for.

Going to try another cardboard version today. Couldn't do it over the weekend because I was too busy.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

neoprene works well, wether on the bike or the paddle for pogies. these are very simple items. don't overthink them.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

tim208 said:


> neoprene works well, wether on the bike or the paddle for pogies. these are very simple items. don't overthink them.


Not sure why you think I'm overthinking. I don't care for neoprene. Plenty of experience with that stuff over the years. Alternative is nylon shell with insulation. Not hard to sew. Just gotta get the shape right, and get a few little details addressed, which I think I've got covered at this point.

plastic craft mesh for stiffeners. rare earth magnets to attach the pogies to the ends of my handlebars. small ventilation zipper at the front edge. I might do without the zipper since I should be able to roll them down and will be able to loosen the velcro that cinches them closed at the handlebar.


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

natehawk, here is the link to the guy who made mine. You can see some picks and I can post some pics of mine tonight when I get home.

Pogies / Gupgum Gear


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> I like the magnet at the bar end idea. Not sure I'd run a bolt through my bar end caps, but I might epoxy another magnet there so I'd only need to buy the little rare earth magnets and sew them into the pogies so they don't move around. Thanks for that idea. That's really slick and addresses the modularity I'm looking for.


I wanted to be able to take them on/off easily as well. Weather in MD is all over the place in the winter and some days I ride with them and others not. Also switch them from bike to bike.

I'd been intending on doing a magnet on the bar end and one in the pogie since last year and a couple weeks back I finally got around to it. Used RE magnets found at home depot about the diameter of a nickel and 2 nickels thick. Perfect size for the bar end. Used superglue on the plastic end caps that come with Ergons.

...not even 10 min into the first ride I cut it a little too close to a tree and "shaved" the magnet off the end cap. It stayed linked with the other one on the pogie but the whole thing went back to drooping.

I may try scuffing up the cap a bit more to give it some "tooth" and try epoxy. Maybe that will hold better. Otherwise I'll resort to the bolt I mentioned earlier.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

majack said:


> natehawk, here is the link to the guy who made mine. You can see some picks and I can post some pics of mine tonight when I get home.
> 
> Pogies / Gupgum Gear


Those look good. Similar to what I'm doing, but instead of fleece insulation, I'm doing fill insulation. Probably Thinsulate. My mock-ups currently have 4 panels, but I see how those have 3. I thought about doing that for mine, and it'll simplify the actual sewing part by having fewer seams.



bme107 said:


> I wanted to be able to take them on/off easily as well. Weather in MD is all over the place in the winter and some days I ride with them and others not. Also switch them from bike to bike.
> 
> I'd been intending on doing a magnet on the bar end and one in the pogie since last year and a couple weeks back I finally got around to it. Used RE magnets found at home depot about the diameter of a nickel and 2 nickels thick. Perfect size for the bar end. Used superglue on the plastic end caps that come with Ergons.
> 
> ...


Weather here in Indiana can also be all over the place, so ease of install/removal is a big deal.

Yeah, I've used Epoxy for quite a few things and it's been solid. Superglue...not so much. Gotta look at what you're fastening to each other and in what scenario to choose the correct adhesive. For this scenario, I'd make sure the end cap is good and textured so the epoxy has extra surface area to grab, and build it up around the magnet, also (to make sure the magnet doesn't come out of the epoxy, which is left sticking to the end cap). Maybe even drill a couple small holes into the end cap to make sure the epoxy oozes into it some for extra hold.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> ...Maybe even drill a couple small holes into the end cap to make sure the epoxy oozes into it some for extra hold.


Good idea, that's what I'll try next with the epoxy.
Somehow I ended up with several extra caps so no big deal if a couple get junked.


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## Hextall (Nov 25, 2013)

majack said:


> natehawk, here is the link to the guy who made mine. You can see some picks and I can post some pics of mine tonight when I get home.
> 
> Pogies / Gupgum Gear


I have these too. There's a piece of cord in each one with a tightener (no idea what the tightener is called... the kind with the button on top to open the circle the cord goes through, then let go and it pinches the cord) that loops around the grip to keep the pogie in place.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Going through my supply of sewing materials, I could almost even make a set of them right now without buying anything.

I have plenty of fabric I can use for a liner. PLENTY. Ranging from 0.9oz Momentum 90 to some apparently uncoated ripstop that looks to be somewhere around 1.5oz/yd (I think I remember finding that stuff on a clearance rack somewhere awhile ago - maybe $1/yd stuff) to some polyester jersey type material. I'm going to stick with something in the nylon family to keep snow brushing off of it. It looks like I have enough Momentum 90 for the liner of a couple pair of pogies based on the new 3 panel pattern I just mocked up that fits much better.

Plus, I've got both no-snag velcro AND narrow strips of 2-sided velcro, either of which will work. Plus draw cord and barrel locks, and of course plenty of poly thread.

One thing that has me thinking I should use some of my scrap fabric to sew up a test version is the length. These cottage manufacturer pogies sewn above look like they are pretty long. As in, coming up to the elbows. I have mine patterned out to reach to the middle of my forearm or so, which seems like it'll be good for me in the conditions I'm likely to encounter, but I'm curious about the length folks tend to like and why.

I've noticed many like the Bar Mitts are mid-forearm length, but I've also seen plenty of the longer ones.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Mine are 12"-13" front to back. Plenty long enough to give some room down by the controls and come up past the jacket cuff. I like them shorter to get in and out of easier. They mostly just cut the wind and keep in a little warmth so I can ride in summer gloves down to 20*F. Beyond that I look for a light winter glove inside.

On the flip side they are not for very adverse conditions, but that is not what I'm riding. These longer, up to the elbows style, pogies are for the hardcore out all day below zero plus wind chill riders. Typically I'm less than 20 min ride from a vehicle access point should problems arise.

Some of the longer ones also provide for storage inside the finger box. (chemical hand warmers or food stash)
Considerations to make.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Just ordered some materials for mine. I went with Rockywoods, since they had a slightly lower price on Cordura 1000D fabric and that was the most expensive part of my order. I'm going with the lightest Thinsulate they had, 150, which is a little bit on the warmer side than I was thinking, but should be fine anyway. Also some grosgrain webbing for finishing, as well as some triglides to use with the velcro I already have for cinches at the handlebars. I'll be seam sealing the shell fabric. They won't be waterproof, but by sealing the seams, at least those won't be the weak points for melting snow.

I have been thinking about little handwarmer pockets, though. I've got enough extra fabric that putting one on each side isn't going to be difficult or expensive. I won't need them much, but it's one of those things that'll definitely be valuable for those couple rides per year I'd want them. I don't see the need for food pockets, though. My winter rides don't tend to be long enough that frozen food is a problem. My food tends to get very cold, but that's the worst of it.

So far, I've spent $50 on enough materials for at least 2 pairs and hopefully enough left over for some bags. Or at least a good start on some bags.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

the fabric and odds & ends I ordered arrives yesterday, so I spent a good chunk of my afternoon measuring and cutting out the pieces of liner fabric I'll need.

I used momentum90 for the liner, because I had some left over from a sleeping bag project I sewed several years ago.

momentum90 is a really light and slippery DWR fabric. the 1000D shell, and even the Thinsulate insulation will probably go a LOT quicker.

I'm taking plenty of pictures and will put a few here, but will do a more detailed writeup on my website for the full details. Still trying to figure out how I'm going to do printable patterns. Looks like I'll have to draw them up digitally because each piece is going to be just too big to run through my scanner or a home printer. Folks will probably have to take the resulting pdf to Kinkos or some other shop that will print stuff for you on large format pages.

Silver sharpies are awesome for drawing on black fabrics.

I made some adjustments to the pattern I made out of cardboard.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cut out the insulation I needed today. Tomorrow, the outer shell fabric. I also need to hit up a craft store for the stiffener I'll be using, and some rare earth magnets.



Enough Thinsulate 150 for two pairs of pogies uses up ~1/3 of a yard of the insulation. A little less than 2/3 of useful scraps are left over. I could have adjusted my sketches to maximize the useful scraps, but instead, I laid it out to make it easier to see each part so that when I go to make up the printable patterns later, it will be easier to sketch out each piece.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Definitely want to see the results! Cool on you for this.

Liked the Natehawk name better though!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Something occurred to me while I was sitting on the can this morning.

So I'm going to use rare earth magnets to hold the pogies in place. It occurred to me that I should look into epoxying the magnets to the inside of the end caps on my grips so they won't get knocked off in a crash and they won't even be visible when not being used. I'll need to experiment to make sure the magnets hold strongly enough in that arrangement, of course.

As for the screen name, that was a very unimaginative name I used at signup. I've been thinking on and off for years about something to change it to. Harold has a story behind it, and is what I named my Bucksaw, also.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Harold said:


> Still trying to figure out how I'm going to do printable patterns. Looks like I'll have to draw them up digitally because each piece is going to be just too big to run through my scanner or a home printer. Folks will probably have to take the resulting pdf to Kinkos or some other shop that will print stuff for you on large format pages.


Draw reference lines that bisect the patterns which could be used to print the patterns on smaller sheets and then taped back together in larger format.



Harold said:


> So I'm going to use rare earth magnets to hold the pogies in place. It occurred to me that I should look into epoxying the magnets to the inside of the end caps on my grips so they won't get knocked off in a crash and they won't even be visible when not being used. I'll need to experiment to make sure the magnets hold strongly enough in that arrangement, of course.


Inside the endcaps would be slick if you could find a magnet to fit with the strength you need.

I was able to epoxy the magnet I sheared off a while back. Drilled a couple 3/32" holes in the end of the cap, pushed some epoxy down them with a toothpick and then covered the surface. I've since washed out 2x in the snow, that side down, and the magnet is holding even though the pogie separated as intended.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bme107 said:


> Draw reference lines that bisect the patterns which could be used to print the patterns on smaller sheets and then taped back together in larger format.
> 
> Inside the endcaps would be slick if you could find a magnet to fit with the strength you need.
> 
> I was able to epoxy the magnet I sheared off a while back. Drilled a couple 3/32" holes in the end of the cap, pushed some epoxy down them with a toothpick and then covered the surface. I've since washed out 2x in the snow, that side down, and the magnet is holding even though the pogie separated as intended.


Yeah, I considered the reference line thing so people could piece together the parts with 8 1/2 x 11 pages.

I'm glad I've got some extra ODI end caps. I can take one to the store and test magnet strength - if I can open up whatever container the magnets are in.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Got all the shell fabric cut out this afternoon. I decided to make some adjustments to this pattern.



Basically, because the shell fabric will be completely surrounding the liner fabric AND the insulation, I wanted to make it larger so it wouldn't compress the insulation or wrinkle up the shell fabric on the inside. I traced one of the liner pieces and then added 1/4" around all sides except for the wrist cuff end. I also only did this adjustment to the top and bottom pieces with the curves, not the front/outside edge strips.

Once I got one made up, I used it as a pattern for the others (it is the one with 3 silver lines drawn on the inner part of the fabric).

This pic shows the differences between the inner and outer surface of this fabric. The inner is shiny and somewhat slick - this is what I draw on. The outer is more matte, and a little softer in texture. The inner lines drawn on the fabric are the seam allowances. You'll see these on the liner fabric earlier, too. I need to draw these on the insulation, too, and you'll see why when I start sewing. The insulation is a little harder to draw on. Sewing the insulation to the liner is my next step.



You probably notice that I used masking tape to hold pieces together in some pics. Most experienced sewers will say to use pins, which I have, and have used in the past. There's a problem with that here, though. Some insulations require high thread count, "downproof" fabrics (though nothing I read on Thinsulate specifically mentioned that issue, I figured it better to be safe), and momentum90 is a downproof fabric. In a previous project where I used momentum90 with down, I noticed that pins left rather large holes in the fabric that didn't really close up as the fabric was worked, allowing some of the down to escape. I had to dab seam sealer on problem holes. Kindof a pain, so I decided to avoid that issue entirely by using masking tape. It didn't hold things together QUITE as well when using pieces as a pattern, but it did the job.

The 1000D Cordura was really easy to work with, without tape or pins. It will be interesting sewing this stuff to the momentum90.


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

I use these Wonder Clips instead of pins, they work great for these types of fabrics.

Amazon.com: Clover Wonder Clips, Red, 50-Pack

Looks like your project is coming along nicely! I'm excited to see the results!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

JAGI410 said:


> I use these Wonder Clips instead of pins, they work great for these types of fabrics.
> 
> Amazon.com: Clover Wonder Clips, Red, 50-Pack
> 
> Looks like your project is coming along nicely! I'm excited to see the results!


Those look like they will work great for the sewing part. I will have to look for them at the craft store when I stop by. They don't look like they would have helped with the tracing I have been doing so far.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Went out and bought a few of the odds and ends I needed today. Found some of those clips for when I start to sew - they're kinda 'spensive so I bought the smaller pack. Got a couple sheets of craft mesh so I can stiffen things up some.

The magnets were a little tricky. All I could find locally were the itty bitty rare earth magnets. I don't know the strength rating on them, but in my tests, they wouldn't quite hold strongly enough for my purposes on the inside of my ODI grip caps.

I wound up ordering some of these:

10 Neodymium Magnets 1/2 x 1/8 inch Disc N48: Industrial Rare Earth Magnets: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

They're as big as I can get and still fit inside the little recessed area inside the ODI end caps. They should be strong enough to hold well through the plastic caps. Given the strength of them, I think I'll need to wrap one in a double layer pouch of 1000D Cordura when I sew them into the pogies, if they're going to be holding against the ends of my bars that way. That's going to be a definite wear zone. I was originally thinking of making the pocket from scrap momentum90, but after messing with some magnets, no way on that.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

Attaching the magnets directly to the inner wall of the pogies might limit your room a little bit in there. Maybe sew them into short (2"ish) sections of tubular webbing, then sew the end of that to the inside of the pogies? Tapecraft 1" Military-Spec Tubular Webbing


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I have some tubular webbing, but what I was talking about doing with some extra bits of cordura would not be appreciably different. Though maybe the tubular webbing would be a little more durable, and sewing just the end would give the pogies a little movement and extra space. It's a good thought. And since I'm going to have a lining seam running right along the area where I'd want to put the magnet, anyway, I could sew the webbing right into that seam when I attach the panels to each other.


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

good work here so far. were you able to make any progress this weekend? how is the shape/fit working?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

No new progress just yet. Had another project I needed to work on a bit. Next step is to sew the insulation to the liner fabric panels.


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## tschewy (Nov 11, 2014)

Concerning handlebar endcaps and attaching pogies... I saw a picture on fat-bike.com of the revelate end plugs. I think you could easily fashion something similar using a 1/2" or 5/8" OD well nut (neoprene expansion plug) and a few nylon washers. Then put a loop in the pogie to run between the washers.

https://fat-bike.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/revelate-end-plug.jpg

I'm going to try this... I'll let you all know how it goes...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

tschewy said:


> Concerning handlebar endcaps and attaching pogies... I saw a picture on fat-bike.com of the revelate end plugs. I think you could easily fashion something similar using a 1/2" or 5/8" OD well nut (neoprene expansion plug) and a few nylon washers. Then put a loop in the pogie to run between the washers.
> 
> https://fat-bike.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/revelate-end-plug.jpg
> 
> I'm going to try this... I'll let you all know how it goes...


I've got my magnets. Looks like it's gong to be a pretty effective system so far.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

FWIW I don't think you need to attach them to the end caps at all. I have two pairs of ATV mitts, one set was $13 and the other $35, both work great. The 'expensive' pair has a draw string that tightens around the handlebar near the stem, the other is just a pair of Velcro straps, and both hold fine. My GF and I have put a lot of miles on them with no slippage, movement or issues including too many miles "running the jackhammer" on postholed trails.

The only issue with these things is they tend to be too warm for temps in the 20s F & up.


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## Captlink (Apr 7, 2012)

Great thread pun intended.If you can find some silk material you will find its a top insulator that blocks the wind and breathes.Have you ever thought about using Kydex plastic for stiffener's this can be shaped with heat. I have used fusible sewing tape to hold seams together with much success.I'm going to call these "Harold's Mitt's" after you and a Harold in my life. 
Two thumbs up for acquiring sewing skills and having a wife that you can share these hobby's with.Mine got me into repairing her machines and now I have a great machine of my own.If you have trouble sewing the nylon try a walking foot if you have one.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

radair said:


> FWIW I don't think you need to attach them to the end caps at all. I have two pairs of ATV mitts, one set was $13 and the other $35, both work great. The 'expensive' pair has a draw string that tightens around the handlebar near the stem, the other is just a pair of Velcro straps, and both hold fine. My GF and I have put a lot of miles on them with no slippage, movement or issues including too many miles "running the jackhammer" on postholed trails.
> 
> The only issue with these things is they tend to be too warm for temps in the 20s F & up.


I thought about not using an attachment to the bars, but I'd rather that they're more secure than necessary, than to be too floppy and annoying. My intended use for them IS below 20 or so. In the 20's, I'm fine with fairly thin full fingered gloves. But into the teens and lower is where hand comfort gets to be difficult for me. On a couple rides this winter so far, my lightly insulated softshell gloves were both too warm AND too cold. I needed the insulation, but they weren't breathable enough so any tiny bit of sweat got cold. Sucked.



Captlink said:


> Great thread pun intended.If you can find some silk material you will find its a top insulator that blocks the wind and breathes.Have you ever thought about using Kydex plastic for stiffener's this can be shaped with heat. I have used fusible sewing tape to hold seams together with much success.I'm going to call these "Harold's Mitt's" after you and a Harold in my life.
> Two thumbs up for acquiring sewing skills and having a wife that you can share these hobby's with.Mine got me into repairing her machines and now I have a great machine of my own.If you have trouble sewing the nylon try a walking foot if you have one.


Silk? Silk is hardly an insulating fabric. Great baselayer fabric for wicking, but I don't want my pogies to wick. I want to be able to ventilate them if they're a hair too warm. I also want them to shed snow. Wicking fabrics don't shed snow well.

I don't want to use Kydex for the stiffener panels. For one, it's TOO stiff, and it's also too solid for what I want.

I got a couple sheets of this stuff.








It's flexible, so the pogies will remain pliable. I'm not looking for brush guards like on a snowmobile or mx bike. Just a little abrasion resistant, hence the 1000D. It also has holes, so some bit of air can pass through. These won't be super breathable, but they will be somewhat. I haven't had good luck with that fusible sewing tape on previous projects. Actual sewing with thread is easier. I'll be sealing the seams of the shell fabric with some Seam Grip but that's all.

Never had a problem with the actual sewing before. Not enough to warrant a walking foot. I did just watch some youtube vids about it, though, and I could see the benefits for this project. I was going to work on sewing the insulation to the liner this evening...but after seeing how much better a walking foot would make that sort of thing, I think I'll hold off until I get a walking foot. I was going to make another trip to the store to get some heavier poly thread and needle for working with the 1000D later, so I'll probably make that trip tomorrow so I can pick up a walking foot and continue with the pogies.


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## Captlink (Apr 7, 2012)

I was not thinking of the silk for the outside but the inside if the thinsulate is not enough or a more flexible pogie is wanted.I have a whole set of long-johns issued by the military just for arctic conditions made from silk and its warm without you getting sweaty.I have caps glove liners and socks to.I would have to see how you were using the stiffeners my thought was a few thin strips along the length not a glove like affair.I know you can use the tape as a seam but I have used it instead of pins just to hold the edges of laminated material then sew it.Not trying to change your design just suggesting a few ideas.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I already have a liner fabric. momentum90. It's a really lightweight DWR coated nylon. It drapes really well and feels super nice against the skin. Plus, it won't wick sweat or loose snow INTO my insulation from the inside. I have used it as the liner fabric for down sleeping quilts in the past and I had enough scrap fabric laying around for this project.

The reason your silk baselayers feel "warm" is because they wick sweat away from your body, allowing your actual insulation to do its job of keeping you warm. They are directly in contact with your skin. The liner of my pogies won't be in direct contact with my skin. I intend to wear summer gloves inside them, which will accomplish whatever wicking I need them to accomplish.

Insulation insulates because it traps air (or water, in the case of neoprene in wetsuits, or impermeable layer in a vapor barrier layer) near your skin, allowing your body heat to warm that space between your skin and the outside air. I have never, ever seen silk used as an insulation. Always as a thin wicking layer. And it's not cheap stuff at that. To make something thick enough (like a wool sweater) to actually insulate, I don't even want to imagine how expensive that would be.

As for whether the thinsulate will be "warm enough", I don't think I'm going to have a problem. I won't even use the pogies if it's well into the 20's. Their intended use scenarios will be in temps colder than that...but I generally won't ride if it's below zero F. It doesn't get THAT cold here often enough for it to be a major issue anyway. Trust me, I've spent a good bit of time thinking about my selection of materials and design considerations.


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## Captlink (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm sure your selection is well thought out.I think its great that you are putting in the time to share this as many people would not.I don't have a huge amount of experience in this sport but have gotten so much information here and wish to contribute.I hope the walking foot helps.Looking forward to the final product.
-CL


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Got one of the liners assembled this afternoon/evening. I couldn't find the tubular webbing I thought I had left over from an old project, so I had to make pockets for the magnets out of the Cordura. Making the pocket itself was pretty easy. What really sucked was when it came time to attach the pocket to the liner (I sewed one end into the seam where the end of the h-bar would be - I actually sewed it, used a seam ripper to open a gap, and sewed it back because I was motoring along and forgot I needed to put it in there). Either way, the magnet itself made it a royal pain. I have a Singer machine from the early 80's which has a lot of steel in it. The magnet was so strong that it made it VERY difficult to move the fabric between the feed dogs. I destroyed a needle because the magnet kept sliding underneath. I ended up just hand cranking the machine to get those stitches in with a really fine touch.

But, I got one side finished and gave it a dry run to see how well it fit. Just about perfect if I do say so myself. I'm going to finish this single side first and make sure all the pieces fit together well before I crank along and do the rest. If they do fit, I'll take the pieces I have left and trace them out on cardboard so I can make a 2nd pair for my wife a little more quickly. I'm finding that my "seam allowance" lines are more of a suggestion than anything when it comes to the assembly. I may not even draw those in for the next pair. They were helpful when coming up with the design, though, to make sure I had enough fabric to work with.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Awesome!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Got the left side finished today.



I decided not to finish the ends with grosgrain webbing in the end. Getting the grosgrain plus the two different thicknesses of fabric pinned together straight was nearly impossible. I ended up simply folding over the shell fabric to the inside, and sewing it all together. Where I had to fold seam allowances over on themselves resulting in super thick sections, I went back and bar tacked those areas to make sure they held.



My machine is BARELY strong enough to handle the folded over cordura (8 layers) plus the thicker thread. If I slowed down before or during a thicker section, the machine wasn't able to start back up pounding the needle through and I'd have to hand crank it to get through the thick part. I had to maintain momentum, much like riding.

The inner curve isn't super pretty. The fabric pulls a little at the apex of that curve. Not sure if it's because it's not a smooth, consistent curve, or if it's some relic of being pulled into a three-dimensional shape. It works, anyway.

I decided to leave the stiffeners out of the design entirely. I dry-fit the liner/insulation and the shell pieces together, and they exhibit plenty of stiffness on their own. The openings stay open just fine without the stiffener.

The cinch is a pretty simple affair. I put a triglide in one of the front seams, and sewed a piece of no-snag velcro (sticks to itself because it has both hook and loop in it) into the back seam. Velcro wraps underneath the pogie and towards the front, through the triglide and back, grabbing itself to hold.

I am glad for the magnet to hold the end in place. Without the other magnet in the handlebar, the outside kinda hangs down. It's not a ton, and the pogies are serviceable, but propping it up at the end will allow it to come a couple inches further up my arm, which ought to keep me a little warmer.

I hope to finish the right side by Saturday so I can test them out in the snow on Sunday. It won't be super cold, but it will be wet snow, which is one thing I'm curious about. In wet snow, dryness has been a key factor to how warm my hands can remain.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Very nice. I decided to make my own also. I just bought Cordura Nylon and Mossy Oak Camo sweatshirt material for the lining. I spoke to my friend who makes boat canvas about doing the sewing for me. 
Nate gave me the confidence to do this.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

NYrr496 said:


> Very nice. I decided to make my own also. I just bought Cordura Nylon and Mossy Oak Camo sweatshirt material for the lining. I spoke to my friend who makes boat canvas about doing the sewing for me.
> Nate gave me the confidence to do this.


You can do the sewing! My first project was WAY more complicated than this one.

Sweatshirt material? I sure hope it's not cotton.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I could if I had a sewing machine. Not a doubt in my mind. 
No, not cotton... Some nylon-micro fleece or something. If it doesn't feel right when it gets here, I'll get something else. I just wanted to use it so it matches my rim strips.


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## coiler_guy (Dec 20, 2005)

Nice work on the pogies. I have made a few versions of my own over the years. My latest ones use a camping foam (like the ones you sleep on) for insulation. It also acts as a stiffener for the pogie. Works great.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

NYrr496 said:


> I could if I had a sewing machine. Not a doubt in my mind.
> No, not cotton... Some nylon-micro fleece or something. If it doesn't feel right when it gets here, I'll get something else. I just wanted to use it so it matches my rim strips.


Gotcha. I saw a lot of folks using fleece to line their DIY pogies. I decided against it because I read someone comment about how the fleece isn't all that snow-friendly. Snow will stick to it if it gets inside the pogie (if you crash, or brush into some branches, or take your hand out to fiddle with something and put it back in, and so on). I chose to use a different insulation, with a nylon liner so that snow will just shake out if it gets inside. I'll be going for a ride in a nice snow storm on Sunday and hopefully will get to test this theory.

You can get a used sewing machine for pretty cheap. Mine was free, from my mother-in-law, who bought a fancy new one several years back for her quilting. The one I am using is from the early 80's and it works great for sewing gear. I'd recommend staying away from the inexpensive more recent ones with tons of plastic parts. While mine was barely good enough to use the heavy fabric, heavy needle, and thicker thread, a new $100 machine would probably break trying to hammer through 8 layers of ballistic nylon. The new HD machines (I was looking at Joann's earlier this week) run around $400+. You don't need to spend that.

This was my first project on this machine several years ago. Way more involved than these pogies. I even bought a scale that measures to 0.1g so I could get the down distributed into the baffles correctly.
My Homemade Hiking Quilts | The GPS Geek



coiler_guy said:


> Nice work on the pogies. I have made a few versions of my own over the years. My latest ones use a camping foam (like the ones you sleep on) for insulation. It also acts as a stiffener for the pogie. Works great.


That closed cell foam sleeping mat stuff has a surprising number of DIY uses. My dad uses the two-layer stuff (the kind with the open cell egg crate foam on one side) to line his tool box. He cuts a piece to fit a drawer, soft side down, and then he cuts just the firm closed cell layer to fit each tool. So far I like the way mine are holding their shape. They're not SO stiff that I couldn't, say, roll them down if it's warm. But they hold their shape well enough that they don't flop around, and the opening stays open.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Right now, I'm very space limited. In a few months, it'll be a different story. 
We have two OLD heavy duty sewing machines in storage at the moment. My wife's grandmother was a seamstress. Once I'm back in a house with a garage and basement, I'll be able to do infinitely more cool stuff.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I have my pogie project occupying the dining room table right now. It helps that we only tend to actually EAT at that table when we have guests.

I know the storage/space problem, though. My wife and I occupied two rooms (one for the bikes, dogs, and brewing stuff) in my parents' already cluttered house for entirely too long, and we had a whole house worth of stuff in storage for almost a year.


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

Those look awesome. Glad it's all coming together for you and I can't wait to see the finished product.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

First pair is finished.



The wife wants to have some for riding in the snowstorm on Sunday, so now I get to try to compress all the work I've done so far into a single day of work. Yay! I think I'm going to need to run to the fabric store again. This time for needles. This Cordura mangles needles. I couldn't even get a whole pair out of one needle. I think I'll send the wife out for that tomorrow while I'm cutting fabric and sewing the lightweight stuff with the last light duty needle I have left and hope that I don't wear it out before she gets back.

I do feel like I need to modify the pattern a little bit for my second pair. The inner curve of the pogies bunches up and looks funny after everything is assembled. I'm going to try to make that curve as smooth as I can make it to minimize the odd bunching.

Other than that, everything is going together well. When I'm finished, I'll have some good cardboard patterns that I will run into my scanner with some reference points so you can print them off on multiple sheets of paper, align the marks, tape them together, and then cut off the excess to use as patterns.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I saw some today made out of fur, at least the outer. Looked cool.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Looks good! I never thought about the magnets sticking to the sewing machine. Funny.

I've been following along, but can't single out what you ended up doing to plug the end by the cables. Did I miss it?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bme107 said:


> Looks good! I never thought about the magnets sticking to the sewing machine. Funny.
> 
> I've been following along, but can't single out what you ended up doing to plug the end by the cables. Did I miss it?


No plug. Just a Velcro cinch. I want a little draft most of the time. These things are quite warm and ventilation will help.

If I do find that I need to seal that off completely in some conditions, I'll just cut a block of minicell foam like 45NRTH uses.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Did a shakedown ride on my first pair of pogies today. Don't quite have my 2nd pair finished - ran out of thread last night, and picked some up on my way home from my ride so I can finish up.

Conditions didn't exactly warrant pogies. Mid-upper 20's and sunny most of the time. Clouds moved in for awhile at the beginning, with a few flurries, though there was a bit of a breeze.



These things are plenty warm, which I like. They were a bit too warm today with full finger "fall" gloves on. They might have been comfy with my summer cutoff gloves. I'll have to try them sometime. One interesting side effect is that my Shimano hydros felt just a bit smoother (warm seals/fluid in the levers?) once the pogies warmed up inside.

They were a bit annoying in one respect. The magnets I chose held on to the ends of my handlebars perfectly with their mates glued inside the end caps of my grips. However I had an unanticipated result. The liner/insulation is not physically attached to the shell fabric there (it is only sewn together at the cuffs at the arm and handlebar openings), allowing the pogies to still sag down a bit. This allows the inner curve to rest against my shifter and there's not quite enough room to move my thumb when I want to shift. If the pogies sit where I want them, they give enough room there. So what I'm going to do is to tack the liner and the shell (and the magnet tab on the pogies themselves) together, which should help keep it in place and give my thumb the space it needs to operate my shifter. Otherwise, they worked really well. I could get my hands in and out plenty easily to blow my nose, get a drink, or whatever. I grazed some brush a few times, and the 1000D Cordura did well. None of them were thorns, but I expect the Cordura wouldn't have any problems with those.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Awesome. Sounds like they work well. Can't wait to try mine. Fabric should arrive any time now.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

My materials showed up yesterday. I lucked out with the liner... It's silky and smooth and super light. I'm going to use a foam sleeping pad as an insulator to also add rigidity. 
Gotta search Ebay for some paracord and those cool clinchers. 
This is going to be cool.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Did another shakedown ride today with the pogies.



Colder today than last time, so while I still felt fairly warm in the pogies at times, a quick ventilation addressed any overheating issues. These are plenty easy to get in and out of. Tacking the magnets/liner to the shell material does the job of keeping them in place...as long as the tacking is in the correct spot. The magnet on the left pogie is a little too far forward, and as soon as I put a finger over the brake lever, the magnet is pulled off the end of the bar. The right side didn't have this problem, and looking at the two side-by-side, you can see how the magnets are tacked to different spots. I'm going to have to move it back an inch or so on the left side. No problem with a seam ripper. I left the sewing gear out on the table just in case I needed to do something like this, so I'll be able to tweak it tonight.

The ride itself was a pretty good one. Fat bikes weren't "necessary" at all, and there were lots of "skinny" tracks in the 1-2" of snow from last night. However, the fat tires gave super secure traction. The skinny bikes not noticeably squirrely at times and I saw a few spots where riders just went down inexplicably. I never felt like I was in danger of going down. Granted I wasn't QUITE going as fast as I do in summertime, but the fatbike felt solid today.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Your pogies are a good shape. If you google image MTB Pogies, you'll see plenty of goofy looking ones out there.


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