# Snowshoe WC + Covid



## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

I am curious what other people my age think about this:

We have had plans to go to the world cup race in Snowshoe, WV next week. Already have a room and tickets, though I can get a refund on the room. 
Today this came across the news: Gov. Justice | W.Va. leads the nation in the acceleration rate of new COVID cases

My son and I are vaccinated, but my wife only has one shot due to an allergic reaction. I'd really like to see the race but traveling to a hotspot during a pandemic seems like a stupid move. Is it? I'm not sure what to do.

Pull the plug and take a local riding trip?
Go and risk bringing it back?
Go and come back and try and try to quarantine? This is the least likely.

Thanks for feedback.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Only you can decide. I'm fairly covid conscious but being an outside event and vaccinated I would feel comfortable and just wear a mask whenever I'm indoors.
Your wife having a strong reaction is a good sign not a bad sign that means your body's building lots of antibodies. And the worst of it is over. She should just go get her second shot.

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## Cleaner (Mar 23, 2004)

If you go I would strongly suggest wearing an N95 respirator when you are sharing air (even outside) with anyone you do not live with. Check the hospital bed availability there and in your home town. There are states that have very little ICU capacity currently so if you were to be in an accident or needed life support it may not be readily available. The COVID patients overwhelming the infrastructure is something to consider.


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## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

Suns_PSD said:


> Only you can decide. I'm fairly covid conscious but being an outside event and vaccinated I would feel comfortable and just wear a mask whenever I'm indoors.
> Your wife having a strong reaction is a good sign not a bad sign that means your body's building lots of antibodies. And the worst of it is over. She should just go get her second shot.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Her reaction wasn't the standard one from the vaccine, it was something else in the vaccine and it happened right away. Her heart rate jumped to 160 and she passed out. They gave her benadryl and she is fine but they don't recommend a second shot. There is a small percentage of people who have a similar reaction.


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## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

Cleaner said:


> If you go I would strongly suggest wearing an N95 respirator when you are sharing air (even outside) with anyone you do not live with. Check the hospital bed availability there and in your home town. There are states that have very little ICU capacity currently so if you were to be in an accident or needed life support it may not be readily available. The COVID patients overwhelming the infrastructure is something to consider.


Unfortunately W. Virginia has a vaccination rate of 51.5% and patients in the ICU and on ventilators is at all time high according to the article. If the race was in MN, where I live, or another state with high vaccination rate it would be easier to decide. With the grim news I wonder if there is a threshold where they won't allow spectators.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

finnlander said:


> Her reaction wasn't the standard one from the vaccine, it was something else in the vaccine and it happened right away. Her heart rate jumped to 160 and she passed out. They gave her benadryl and she is fine but they don't recommend a second shot. There is a small percentage of people who have a similar reaction.


Are you interested in pushing the limits of your marriage to watch a bike race? If so, go. If not, don't. If the roles were reversed, and she was fully vaccinated and your weren't, how would you feel if she went? It is statistically possible for you to give it to her (the chances of encountering somebody who has an active COVID case are near 100% and your likeliness of getting it are 50-50). How do you think you guys move past this if this situation were to become manifest? Just for a bike race?


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## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

beastmaster said:


> Are you interested in pushing the limits of your marriage to watch a bike race? If so, go. If not, don't. If the roles were reversed, and she was fully vaccinated and your weren't, how would you feel if she went? It is statistically possible for you to give it to her (the chances of encountering somebody who has an active COVID case are near 100% and your likeliness of getting it are 50-50). How do you think you guys move past this if this situation were to become manifest? Just for a bike race?


Good way to put it in perspective. It is only a bike race.

I know how fast the delta variant is at traveling around. My sister had a breakthrough case already and she is extra careful. They were called back to work in the office for one week before it spread there and she and her two coworkers tested positive. Thanks to the jab she only had light cold symptoms but still had to quarantine. Its nothing to mess with.


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## Kmccann137 (Jul 10, 2017)

I was going to go but then they shut down the entire park for the whole week. So I canceled cuz I would like to ride atleast once while there. It will be a shitshow no doubt.


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## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

I didn't know the entire park is closed. Looks like there are other trails close though.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I went on a week long trip to Oregon back in July. Fully vaccinated, was with all of my buddies who were also fully vaccinated, we rode our bikes and ate at breweries outside on patios. I brought COVID back and gave it to my wife (fully vaccinated) and 2 young kids. 

Up to you. I was the sickest I've ever been, despite being vaccinated. Delta doesn't care about your vaccine and the vast majority of people on ventilators aren't vaccinated.


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## Xylx (Mar 18, 2005)

I read something last year in the middle of the first wave of Covid. It was from a study in the Netherlands. They claimed that bicyclists (and the Dutch know their biking) gave off a plume of Covid up to twenty feet to the rear. It looked like a legitimate study to me. I stopped going out on the locally popular Greenbelt paved trail and confined myself to midnight rides in the foothills on dirt with a very bright light. I live in Idaho which is just as bad as WV. ICUs are filled to capacity. I wouldn't go anywhere near a gathering of bike racers at this point. I'm fully vaxx'd if that lends any credibility. But bringing it home would not be good.


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## mrpizza (Jun 2, 2013)

I would go, but that's me. All depends on your risk tolerance and your comfort level.


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## Boulder Waffles (Nov 26, 2014)

Evie Richards tho...uuumph


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## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

Thanks to all for the replies. I agree that cancelling is the smart choice. It’s not worth risking the health of my wife, or anyone, just to watch a bike race.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

finnlander said:


> Thanks to all for the replies. I agree that cancelling is the smart choice. It's not worth risking the health of my wife, or anyone, just to watch a bike race.


Any word about it on the WC site?


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## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

Crankout said:


> Any word about it on the WC site?


Not a thing anywhere I could find. I called Snowshoe and they said the event is scheduled to go forward and that spectators will be allowed in the village and pits area. Also, masks will be required inside buildings. 
In other news, it's another record day there - West Virginia - COVID-19 Overview - Johns Hopkins.


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## hsakkire (Mar 6, 2010)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I went on a week long trip to Oregon back in July. Fully vaccinated, was with all of my buddies who were also fully vaccinated, we rode our bikes and ate at breweries outside on patios. I brought COVID back and gave it to my wife (fully vaccinated) and 2 young kids.
> 
> Up to you. I was the sickest I've ever been, despite being vaccinated. Delta doesn't care about your vaccine and the vast majority of people on ventilators aren't vaccinated.


Vaccination, from what I've seen from people I know, has little bearing on whether you may contract it. The hope is that it has the potential to reduce severity of symptoms.

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

hsakkire said:


> Vaccination, from what I've seen from people I know, has little bearing on whether you may contract it. The hope is that it has the potential to reduce severity of symptoms.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I'm working for a company with thousands of employees and they did their own analysis on their own employees and shared their results in the last meeting. 
92% of those during the latest surge with known covid infections were unvaccinated. 
100% of those hospitalized and dead (there are several) were unvaccinated.

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## dan l (Oct 16, 2015)

With the majority of people people now vaccinated in most communities (mine sits at 85%) the back of the napkin statistics of "I know just as many vaccinated people who got sick as those who were not" does not work. If 85% of people are vaccinated, and 5 get sick. That isn't the same as knowing 5 people who were not vaccinated and got sick as they only make up 15% of the population.

In this case, 5 does not equal 5 because of how uneven the distribution between vaccinated/un-vaccinated are.


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## hsakkire (Mar 6, 2010)

My point is still valid. To be clear, vaccination will not guarantee immunity from contracting Covid. 

I wasn't making a statement about whether one should be vaccinated or not. I have no desire to go down that rabbit hole. 

I made the point in an effort to help the OP in his original question as he mentioned that he's vaccinated and felt that may be helpful in his decision. As others have stated, it may help but it's no guarantee. 

In the end, his choice to go or not go is something only he can decide. It's a personal choice. 

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## nOOky (May 13, 2008)

I wouldn't go if I had a choice. We have to go Tennessee in 3 weeks for the wife to run a 100 miler, the race isn't really doing anything about covid, so I'm not too excited about it. But I'll keep my distance from others and wear a mask, hopefully we'll be okay. I'm going to Oregon in 9 days to run a 100 miler, kind of the same deal. But almost everything will be outdoors and masks are required indoors and at aid stations etc. so hopefully be alright.

We just got back from Europe where I ran a 101k race. I suspect most everyone there was vaccinated, and you needed a CDC card to enter restaurants etc. We had to get tested to re-enter the U.S., and everyone was negative.

I guess if you think you can stay reasonably away from others and keep a mask on where applicable you'd probably be alright. If you went to bars and hung out indoors etc. that would likely be a different story.


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## dan l (Oct 16, 2015)

hsakkire said:


> My point is still valid. To be clear, vaccination will not guarantee immunity from contracting Covid.
> 
> I wasn't making a statement about whether one should be vaccinated or not. I have no desire to go down that rabbit hole.
> 
> ...


Your point is misleading, I was working to correct that. A better way to help is to quote vaccine efficacy data.


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## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

dan l said:


> With the majority of people people now vaccinated in most communities (mine sits at 85%) the back of the napkin statistics of "I know just as many vaccinated people who got sick as those who were not" does not work. If 85% of people are vaccinated, and 5 get sick. That isn't the same as knowing 5 people who were not vaccinated and got sick as they only make up 15% of the population.
> 
> In this case, 5 does not equal 5 because of how uneven the distribution between vaccinated/un-vaccinated are.


I think the vaccination rate varies widely depending on where you live. In W. Virginia the vaccination rate is around 44%.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

My 95 year old grandmother just passed of old age, it was time. 
Houston morgue/ cemeteries can't bury her for nearly 3 weeks due to covid death backups. 
Of course my mom, the Q supporter, maintained that the burial delay had nothing to do with the 'Scam-demic' (her words not mine) and instead the delay was caused 'by the Muslims'. Sad but true story. 

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

hsakkire said:


> My point is still valid. To be clear, vaccination will not guarantee immunity from contracting Covid.
> 
> I wasn't making a statement about whether one should be vaccinated or not. I have no desire to go down that rabbit hole.
> 
> ...


Anyone is 5x more likely to catch Delta if your unvaccinated than if you are. 11x more likely to die. 
These 2 statistics put together make you what, 55x more likely to catch & then die from Delta if unvaccinated. 
Truthfully, I thought the difference was more.

Ars Technica: Unvaccinated are 5X more likely to catch delta, 11X more likely to die.








Unvaccinated are 5X more likely to catch delta, 11X more likely to die


Three fresh CDC studies show vaccines holding up against delta.




arstechnica.com





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## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

Out of curiosity I checked out the UCI site to see what the recommended mitigation efforts are which led me to the following page:









COVID-19 protocols


COVID-19 pandemic - International events: protocols for organisation and participation



www.uci.org





In this document there is this section where it says there should be documents about health related measures for the event. There are docs for some of the World Cup rounds and the world championships but nothing for Snowshoe. What a [email protected] show.

Fron the UCI document above:

"In order to promote the exchange of information necessary for the organisation of MTB competitions, one secure data storage spaces will be opened by the UCI. This is intended for organisers to provide information to teams regarding the implementation of specific health- related measures.
The link for this data storage space is as follows:








ownCloud - A safe home for all your data


MTB info is publicly shared




box.uci.ch




The event organisers shall deposit on this data storage space the 2 following documents, at latest 2 weeks prior to the Event:


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

hsakkire said:


> Vaccination, from what I've seen from people I know, has little bearing on whether you may contract it. The hope is that it has the potential to reduce severity of symptoms.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I seem to have it right now and I'm incredibly sick. But not in the hospital. 
At least I got my big ride in on Saturday.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Anyone is 5x more likely to catch Delta if your unvaccinated than if you are. 11x more likely to die.
> These 2 statistics put together make you what, 55x more likely to catch & then die from Delta if unvaccinated.
> Truthfully, I thought the difference was more.
> 
> ...


Umm, no, that's not how the statistics work. You don't multiply the 5 and the 11, that's nonsense.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

I wouldn't go personally. However, you can take steps that make the risk fairly low. Drive, don't fly. Wear N95 masks whenever you're indoors, other than your own hotel room. Stay away from crowds outside. At the race, avoid the start-finish area, or view from afar/above with a telephoto lens. Spectate sections that are less crowded with fans. Stand upwind of other people, not downwind. Don't go into crowded restaurants where a bunch of people are congregating unmasked. Get take out food, or get sandwiches at a grocery store. You can substantially reduce your risk. However, with the special situation with your wife, I go back to thinking that you shouldn't go at all. In the big picture, I would go back to the clinical situation with your wife--the symptoms and whatever diagnosis you were given at the time (sounds like anaphylaxis, but I'm not a physician so don't quote me) and see if this has been traced to specific ingredients in the particular vaccine that she got (Moderna or Pfizer; sounds like it wasn't J&J because that's one dose). The PEG-based vehicles of the mRNA vaccines have been flagged for causing allergic reactions. At some point, your wife might be able to take a second dose of a different vaccine based on different technology (mRNA vs recombinant protein, adenovirus, etc) which will have different formulations and ingredients from the mRNA vaccines. Here's an article on early trials of mixing vaccines--there might be newer info available: Mix-and-match COVID vaccines: the case is growing, but questions remain. Definitely not a standard practice, but there could be some clinical experience now for people in your wife's situation.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Jwiffle said:


> Umm, no, that's not how the statistics work. You don't multiply the 5 and the 11, that's nonsense.


Actually it's exactly how it works. Why don't you calculate it by hand and get back with us.

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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Actually it's exactly how it works. Why don't you calculate it by hand and get back with us.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


The statistic he gave specifically stated 11x more likely to die. Just because you are 5x more likely to have caught it does not make you suddenly 55x more likely to die. You are 11x times, as the statistic is given.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Actually it's exactly how it works. Why don't you calculate it by hand and get back with us.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


It already gave the statistic as 11x more likely to die. So you don't multiply the 5 of catching it to the 11 of dying by it. The 11 is the statistic.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

My curiosity is how and from what data did the CDC come up with those stats?

The CDC themselves stopped tracking breakthrough cases on May 1st and there's over 3 million backlogged cases not registered with the CDC. The CDC and surgeon general are not using data derived in the United States to come up with the booster shot idea or time frame. To muddy the waters further, 2 senior FDA virologists resigned over the booster shot plan. Data coming out of the UK and Israel does not align with the CDC's findings there. 

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Jwiffle said:


> It already gave the statistic as 11x more likely to die. So you don't multiply the 5 of catching it to the 11 of dying by it. The 11 is the statistic.


The way I read it is if you're one of the one's that does catch it you are 11 times more likely to die.
Not that you're 11 times more likely to die overall if you're unvaccinated over all vaccinated.

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## hsakkire (Mar 6, 2010)

I'm not anti-vaccination, anti-government, anti left or anti right, etc but I don't fully trust any data provided by any media as it's always biased in some way. My memory isn't great but I do remember that the WHO was caught outright lying when this all began. Mark Twain popularized the "lies, damn lies and statistics" phrase although I don't believe he was the originator. 

I have two data points from a vaccinated/non-vaccinated perspective. 

My wife attends an exercise class every day. Of the 15 women in the class, 7 recently contracted Covid and 6 of them were vaccinated. 

My daughter just started college and 10 of her suite mates contracted Covid and 9 were vaccinated. 

I'm not anti science or statistics either but skeptical of a lot of what has happened regarding this virus. There is a lot of conflicting information, resignations and churn. You don't typically see that in the medical field but politics are so much a part of this that it's dividing people including everyone on here. 

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and should make their own choices, especially the OP. But, we're a part of this forum because we love riding. That's the bond we all share. Let's not lash out at one another over different belief systems regardless of how strongly you feel that the other person is wrong. 

If you go to WV, safe travels and I hope you have a blast. If you don't, shred some local dirt and read the results when you're done. 

Oh, and if you do go, pics are mandatory!

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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Vaccines are not 100% effective. None are. So, the fact that vaccinated people can get sick isn't news. Especially when variants are popping up. Also, when things are new, we learn about them constantly. Accepting that you were once wrong, and changing your opinion based on evidence is simply part of the scientific process.

Ultimately, at this point, this is going to simply be endemic and we'll be dealing with this forever going forward.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

hsakkire said:


> I'm not anti-vaccination, anti-government, anti left or anti right, etc but I don't fully trust any data provided by any media as it's always biased in some way. My memory isn't great but I do remember that the WHO was caught outright lying when this all began. Mark Twain popularized the "lies, damn lies and statistics" phrase although I don't believe he was the originator.
> 
> I have two data points from a vaccinated/non-vaccinated perspective.
> 
> ...


All human beings put their political slant on things, knowingly or not.

That said, CV19 and it's variants are new developments so they are constantly figuring things out. This fact shouldn't make you ignore the most up to date info as we know it.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Regardless of stats, just remember that it is W. Va. we're talking about.


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## hsakkire (Mar 6, 2010)

dysfunction said:


> Vaccines are not 100% effective. None are. So, the fact that vaccinated people can get sick isn't news. Especially when variants are popping up. Also, when things are new, we learn about them constantly. Accepting that you were once wrong, and changing your opinion based on evidence is simply part of the scientific process.
> 
> Ultimately, at this point, this is going to simply be endemic and we'll be dealing with this forever going forward.


Agree. It's not going away

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## hsakkire (Mar 6, 2010)

I hope you feel better soon. I had it in early 2020 and it really knocked me out for some time but I have asthma. 

Hang in there and keep us posted.

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## finnlander (May 3, 2005)

Hi All, We ultimately decided not to go for a number of reasons, the main one being to not get or transmit anything. This year has been tough and its worth missing the race if it keeps us healthy for the rest of it.

I do agree that the virus will always be around but the progress that has been made in treatment and vaccines is amazing. We have safe and effective vaccines. If only people would get them.


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## Brules (Jul 10, 2021)

If you are under 30, healthy and no over riding issues (diabetic, heart, auto immune), you will probably be ok if you get it as your chance of death is pretty slim. Above 30 and you really need to consider it, especially if you are over weight, diabetic, heart issues (any), or any auto immune issues. Our town just lost a dad of 4 who was in later 40s, and relatively healthy. Makes no sense. Vaccines are not 100% against getting it but you will not die and most likely won’t go to the hospital. All of my Dr and Nurse friends are saying all the people dying are unvaxed across the bird no exceptions and hospital data backs it up. This delta variant is no joke and is much worse than the initial virus.

Be sure to spread the word though to anyone you know or family that if they are unvaxd and get COVID, search out the monoclonal antibody infusion and if possible get a IV of v C/D/B12 etc. Especially of that friend or family member has any at risk factors. I don’t know why but I find way to many ppl who don’t know about the infusions! So I’m fine with someone being anti vax - just be informed as to what to do if you get it! Treatment has gotten really good but you only have a 5-7 day window to get the infusion from onset so pass the word!


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

You should ask your wife, not random people on mtbr 

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