# Inverted Forks



## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

Just wondering, for those guys running inverted forks, what are your experiences with the following:

Marzocchi Shiver









Manitou Dorado (sorry, I don't know much about the Dorado)









White Brothers Groove 180/200 (looks cool, if I can't get a 888, maybe this...)









If you have experiences with other brands or models from the list above, please feel free to share


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## jamesdc (Oct 31, 2005)

I run a shiver right now and it works amazing. It is so sensitive to small rocks but still takes the big hits. I just had it rebuilt be SMT and it is even better now. For all those people that saw shivers are flexy, they only flex when you are not on the bike, one you get on the bike and the for sags it is just as stiff as just any other fork.


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## sierranevada (Apr 13, 2007)

I had problems with leaking seals on an older white brothers 180. They have probably fixed this problem by now.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

don't get the Dorado.......no parts for it a lot of maintenance
don't know anything about the WB's
Shiver are really nice, but if you break a cartridge they are very hard to find


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

as you know, right now I'm running a 05 shiver. its a very nice fork, especially since I got mine in a trade for my old 66VF that I paid $200.00 for. They're a really great product. the dorado is okay, I just wouldent trust a carbon DH fork....ever....the WB is a very nice fork, I dont have tons of experience with them. but they're a great product.

sadly, parts are going to be extremely hard to find for all three. they all will flex a little. the dorado doesn't have nearly as much flex as the shiver. also it took me 11 hours to properly fit the stupid shiver on my bike. now it fits like a glove, but I could take the fork off, and install my jr t and it would take me probably 10 mins to get it perfect.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> as you know, right now I'm running a 05 shiver. its a very nice fork, especially since I got mine in a trade for my old 66VF that I paid $200.00 for. They're a really great product. the dorado is okay, I just wouldent trust a carbon DH fork....ever....the WB is a very nice fork, I dont have tons of experience with them. but they're a great product.
> 
> sadly, parts are going to be extremely hard to find for all three. they all will flex a little. the dorado doesn't have nearly as much flex as the shiver. also it took me *11 hours *to properly fit the stupid shiver on my bike. now it fits like a glove, but I could take the fork off, and install my jr t and it would take me probably 10 mins to get it perfect.


how in the hell did you take 11 hours


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> how in the hell did you take 11 hours


trying to get the bolts tightened in the right order. fork wouldn't fit into my headset, race fit was really tight. just a total pain in the ass. it would have taken you the same amount of time. I know what I'm doing when it comes to installing forks on my bikes.


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## DeepSouthBuilder (Jan 4, 2007)

So your answer to maybe not being able to find an 888 is to choose between three different inverted forks two of which aren't made anymore?
That's a little strange. You sure you don't just like how they look?
I assure you an 888 is easier to get no matter where you are in the world than any of those.
Inverted forks are notorious for being very flexy.
Get an 888 (you can find one if you try hard enough).
Make your standby a Boxxer or 40.


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## dd13 (Oct 6, 2005)

by the way,i didnt know if you new this or not but the WB is the only one that is still in production.so if you were hoping to buy new its the onyl choice.this summer im either going with a new frame,or a WB groove180...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> trying to get the bolts tightened in the right order. fork wouldn't fit into my headset, race fit was really tight. just a total pain in the ass. it would have taken you the same amount of time. I know what I'm doing when it comes to installing forks on my bikes.


wow I would love to see pictures....was the head tube too long???


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

I may be the only one that enjoys the feeling of the Dorado. Very plush and supple, great performing DH Fork. But...its just so delicate and requires maintanince up the wazoo.

The Shiver is a good fork but weighs ungodly amounts.

Basically its a Win-Lose situation with almost any inverted fork you can buy.


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## jebfour (Sep 18, 2005)

I'm glad this thread came up...I actually just put a shiver on my bike and will give it the first ride this weekend.

I believe that the seals and some other things are the same as on a 888 (think it was a Marz. rep that told my buddy that, I'll have to remember to ask him).

Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks!


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## jamesdc (Oct 31, 2005)

jeb4 said:


> I'm glad this thread came up...I actually just put a shiver on my bike and will give it the first ride this weekend.
> 
> I believe that the seals and some other things are the same as on a 888 (think it was a Marz. rep that told my buddy that, I'll have to remember to ask him).
> 
> ...


The shiver dc seals are the same as the 888 and 66 seals.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Raptordude said:


> I may be the only one that enjoys the feeling of the Dorado. Very plush and supple, great performing DH Fork. But...its just so delicate and requires maintanince up the wazoo.
> 
> The Shiver is a good fork but weighs ungodly amounts.
> 
> Basically its a Win-Lose situation with almost any inverted fork you can buy.


I thought the Dorado felt great, but the whole carbon fiber thing scared me.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

Carbon on the dorado is no issue; frequent maintenance is the catchng point - if you dont mind, and get it set up well - it is an awesome fork - race or huck and is by far the stiffest invert Ive seen for a bike!!

You should still get a 888 tho.....


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> wow I would love to see pictures....was the head tube too long???


pictures of what?


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

I'm just wondering your experiences with inverted forks, though I asked my uncle in Kansas a 888 as a gift for my graduation.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

are you pedaling that bike a lot or more DH runs......if more DH I would get an Intergrated stem and take out those spacers to lower the handlebars


todd_freeride said:


> pictures of what?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

suicidebomber said:


> I'm just wondering your experiences with inverted forks, though I asked my uncle in Kansas a 888 as a gift for my graduation.


best choice...congrats


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## lebikerboy (Jan 19, 2005)

X-Fusion (making Specialized forks/shocks) makes inverted forks...

http://www.x-fusion-shox.com/


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## stinky ho (Dec 9, 2004)

I like the shiver


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

todd_freeride said:


> I just wouldent trust a carbon DH fork....ever.


More blind fear of Carbon Fiber


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> are you pedaling that bike a lot or more DH runs......if more DH I would get an Intergrated stem and take out those spacers to lower the handlebars


The steerer is hella long, and I dont want to cut it short. I have the integrated stem, I just dont really like it. I prefer my trusty hussefelt. plus its a long stem.


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## Sombrio69 (Apr 21, 2005)

out of those 3 i would get the Shiver. i have no experiance w/ White Bro's fork's. personaly i liek teh look of inverted forks better. i say teh Shiver over the Darado, just because im lazy and dont liek to have to do maintanince. they are both great foks, but parts can be hard to find. and the Darado i personaly liek more but it does take a lot more maintanince.


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## coghi (Jan 5, 2007)

anybody knows were i can find brandnew 05 shivers??? the ones that are black


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

coghi said:


> anybody knows were i can find brandnew 05 shivers??? the ones that are black


you cant. only used.


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## aussie_bushrider (Jul 6, 2006)

*Get the WB*

I havent ridden the WB Groove.
You'll find lots of info about them on Ridemonkey.
Very tuneable, plush fork.
Has more overlap and longer bushings than a shiver.
The 120mm hub spacing makes them stiffer too.
They are also at least 1lb lighter than shivers.
WB also have a reputation for excellent build quality with all machined and anodized parts.

I own a Shiver DC.
Shivers do not compare to the current crop of DH forks (888, 40, Boxxer .. etc)
They are not as stiff torsionally and they are heavy.
They are very strong and durable.
The inverted triple clamp design means they will twist in a crash instead of breaking.

Other more expensive options are an Avalanche DHF7/8, the Foes fork and the Shock Therapy Fork.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

cant forget this monster.










I REALLY want one.


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## Rideevolution (Oct 25, 2006)

Ive never seen that fusion fork. It looks interesting. Any experiences?


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## Mongiafer (May 29, 2005)

BAH....people saying that inverted forks are flexy and stuff.......but the Honda G-cross team still rocks the world cup circuit on the inverted showa. or kayabas whatever.

kayaba
showa
kowa

mmmmmm i wolud love to try a japanese fork to compare with the clasicals americans fox, italian zocchis and taiwanese rock shoxs....manitou can not be compared not even with RSTs


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## kruz (Nov 28, 2004)

I am lucky enough to own Marz 888RC, Fox 40 and White Brother Groove 200. I'm not expert but i like the feeling of inverted fork. Its totally different. Get inverted fork. Get White Brother.


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## ndinh (Mar 2, 2004)

*Inverted*

I've had 2 Dorados and 1 WB DH2. I had the red one and then had the blue for a couple of years. I love those forks, smooth and light. I'm only 150 lbs and didn't do 10 ft. drops so I didn't have major issues with durability. The only thing is that I did noticed that you'd have to lube the stanchions before every ride to get the smoothness and I crashed once and it twisted the legs, not a big deal. The WB DH2 was an awesome fork. It's a little heavier and was buttery smooth as well. I've never had the marz. so no comment. My opinion, FR=Dorado, DH=WB. Or just get a Travis, they're going for dirt cheap now.


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## mtnbykr06 (Mar 22, 2006)

First, Inverts are only flexy when they are not set into their travel. 

Dorado is not really carbon. It is just a carbon overlay on top of aluminum or magnesium or something along those lines.


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## ndinh (Mar 2, 2004)

*one other thing to think about*

FYI, I believe the Dorado and Shiver have the standard spacing (120? not sure) but WB inverted forks have a 150mm spacing so you would have to re-dish your front wheel.


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## ndinh (Mar 2, 2004)

*I mean 110mm, sorry (nm)*

....


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## dhbikerczar (Jul 16, 2005)

I ran the White Brothers DH3 for many years (still have it, probably should sell it). The only reason I didn't put it on the M3 is because I wanted to try the 888. I also thought that it would be easier to setup the 888 for a fat guy like me (about 250lbs). I do like the ride of the DH3 much better though. it is soo smoth at times it feels like it soaks up sharp big rocks like it is a 10" fork not an 8" one. I do think it is a bit heavy, but I don't actually have any numbers to compare it to the 888.


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## Madman133 (Apr 25, 2006)

anyone know where to get an xfusion? i have looked everywhere and their site doesnt give a list of dealers...


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## CovicRacing (May 7, 2007)

Hey all,

I figured rather than start a new thread for this post, I would resurrect an old one....

Kowa is planning to introduce a new inverted air fork next year. This fork is currently in the prototype stages so the facts are slim. But here is what I do know:

0-200mm Travel Adjustable
Air Sprung
3.09 kg (6.81 lbs)

Here are some early pics...

@200mm travel









@100mm travel









@0mm travel









Please feel free to comment.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

that sucks that its air. I seem to be failing to see the point about the 0 travel adjustment thing, "it climbs so much better" yea, but you're still going to be on a 40 pound bike with big knobby tires if you're using a 200mm fork  seems kinda pointless. they should do a coil 180mm version.

They also need to make stauntion guards with hose mounts, that brake hose is getting pretty close to that tire.


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## bighitboy (May 16, 2004)

dorado's rocked when they were running good. but they take alot of time to setup and keep running good. unless you r riding semi pro DH i would suggest a fox 40 or an 888. showa runs their stuff on the honda bikes, but they also make the moto stuff, and all pro teams can rebuild their forks every other run. i know fox looked at an inverted design, but decided away b/c it had to weigh 2 more pounds more to make it close to the same stiffness. idc what u say, sagged or now, inverted forks will twist in the crowns, even when bottomed out, they can turn in the crowns. i have had a few dorados that would twist. im still hooked on the boxxer world cups. air baby! although i have seen spy photos of an air white brothers that looked tricked


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## 3lite0hbik3r (Nov 19, 2006)

todd_freeride said:


> that sucks that its air. I seem to be failing to see the point about the 0 travel adjustment thing, "it climbs so much better" yea, but you're still going to be on a 40 pound bike with big knobby tires if you're using a 200mm fork  seems kinda pointless. they should do a coil 180mm version.
> 
> They also need to make stauntion guards with hose mounts, that brake hose is getting pretty close to that tire.


x2 Why air?!:nono: Still looks hella sexy


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## mammothpunks (Apr 30, 2006)

mtnbykr06 said:


> First, Inverts are only flexy when they are not set into their travel.
> 
> Dorado is not really carbon. It is just a carbon overlay on top of aluminum or magnesium or something along those lines.


You have obviously never rebuilt a Dorado before. they are carbon all the way through, besides the small points where the crowns attach. Dorado's may require a decent amount of maintenance, but i have yet to feel a fork as smooth and plush as my 03 Dorado.


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## vrider (May 1, 2007)

I have the foes xtd fork (old one) and its bad azz, i want to get the newer one. Anyone running the Hanebrinks?


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## bmxconvert (May 17, 2006)

One of the greatest inverted fork has been left out. The Avalanche. Incredibly stiff fork, supreme small bump compliance(partially due to oil viscosity), ramps up amazingly well(partially due to tuning of oil heights), incredibly easy to maintain, air can be burped from the system in a matter of minutes, and large 37mm stanctions. Downside... there needs to be an integrated stem/crown combo built for one of these bad boys.

I loved mine. The next fork I buy after the Boxxer WC gets its use is a White Bro's Groove 200. WB's has excellent customer service and make a superb product. We'll see how they compare to the Avy.


































-Kevin


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

I would rate both the Avy AND the Stratos S8 as far superior to the three originally listed. No props for the S8 so far?!!! Was only one of the highest rated DH forks EVER on MTB Review. I still have mine and it's still the plushest fork I've ever ridden (just weighs a ton so I replaced with a Boxxer Team).

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## chup29 (Nov 28, 2006)

love my shiver - just take off all the stickers - they look soooooo much better


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## CovicRacing (May 7, 2007)

todd_freeride said:


> " they should do a coil 180mm version."


This fork is actually based on a 200mm coil fork, the air spring adaptation was purely a weight reduction move. FYI, Kowa does currently offer a upright 180mm coil fork called the 180ci.



todd_freeride said:


> "They also need to make stauntion guards with hose mounts, that brake hose is getting pretty close to that tire."


These forks will come with stantion guards, they are just not shown in these pics.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

porn !


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## Trailwhore (Sep 26, 2005)

Avalanche's are awesome. Very heavy, not flexy at all. Easy to maintain as they use the same seals as dirt bikes. I think they sell integrated stems now. They are expensive but should last a lifetime. nhave fun


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## bcd (Jan 27, 2004)

another wb vote.

never had to service

stiffest invert out there, i never twisted it.


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## KennyO (Apr 21, 2004)

I knew 5 guys with the S8, and I knew 5 forks that had bent uppers. They all liked the forks until they bent them. One guy bent them 3 times out of 3 rebuilds. One guy cracked the upper crown. That fork was way too heavy, too.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Gman086 said:


> I would rate both the Avy AND the Stratos S8 as far superior to the three originally listed. No props for the S8 so far?!!! Was only one of the highest rated DH forks EVER on MTB Review. I still have mine and it's still the plushest fork I've ever ridden (just weighs a ton so I replaced with a Boxxer Team).
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


I had the S8 Ultra and a shiver later. The S8 was good, it was reliable for me (but a lot of them went out with incorrectly speced seals which ruined their reputation big time), it was plush, it was tunable with the oil heights, and so on.

The shiver did everything the S8 did. but a little better. It was just as well damped, actually more sensitive, and it weighed about 2lbs less. Even with 15mm less travel (I measured the S8 at about 204-205mm), the shiver felt at least as good.

The S8 was ok, but stratos started to die quickly because they couldn't refine their products, they couldn't do anything more than a bolt-together standard fork that weighed far more than the competition, and because of that it was also a good deal flexier even with the huge stanchions, the S8 couldn't really be refined much, but it was a monster of a fork. There was also a pretty big problem with the glide-rings inside of the damper piston, my MX6 had this problem, and the S8 was subceptible to it.

The only inverted fork I'd ever get now would be the Avalanche DHF8, in the mtb world the only advantage to running an inverted fork is the better lubrication, which some companies like manitou even manage to screw up due to poor lubrication systems. This is a non issue if the "non-inverted" fork has a decent open bath damping system that lubes the stanchions well. I didn't mind the shiver so much, but the thing is that you can have a lighter and stiffer fork with an 888.

The proper comparission with an inverted fork vs a "standard" fork is a standard fork with no brake arch, because in the moto world there are no brake arches. Sure, in this case the larger uppers with the inverted fork help a bit and make it stiffer fore and aft, but mtb forks with one-peice lowers are a different story, and compared to the same size inverted fork, much stiffer laterally, especially for the weight. The fore-aft thing can be addressed by simply making the stanchions bigger, like 35-40mm.

The only reason to make an inverted fork (not advantage, but the reason for it existing) is to get the proper amount of bushing overlap with large amounts of travel.


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## bighitboy (May 16, 2004)

i have seen too many WB crowns fail for me to ever ride one. search on the web. the old DH 3 had abunch of problems, i saw a guy at Plattekille blow 1 apart. i ran over his legs as he ate it on the tranny. thank god he didnt land on it


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## CRASH (Jan 12, 2004)

I've had my wb 180 for 3 years now. it just had it's first service. The guy's at wb said everything looked good and just changed the seals and fluid. there is only one problem with a inverted fork. it can be flexy in slow tech rockgardn's but I have nothing but love for my fork. :thumbsup:


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