# Berd Polylight spokes.



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

_I posted this in the wheel/tire forum a few days ago, and completely spaced x-posting it here. So, here..._

Maybe a year ago I became aware of a new technology being used to make bicycle spokes.

By and large spokes are made from steel these days, primarily because steel makes for such a great blend of weight, cost, and durability. Experimentation with aluminum and composites has happened and will continue to -- that's how the breed improves.

Spokemakers have, in recent years, embraced straight pull spokes (of steel and aluminum) for reasons of, um, marketing, best I can tell. They haven't been proven to do anything better than j-bend spokes, other than introduce a confounding choice onto an unsuspecting and largely uneducated public. I think the conversation probably went something like this:

Marketing hack A: _"How do we sell more of something without actually improving it?"_

Marketing hack B: _"Divide, confuse, and conquer? Oh, plus new colorways!"_

My perspective is that straight pull spokes are a "solution" to a non-existent problem.

Ahem. Did I digress?!

I'm writing today about Berd spokes. You can read their shpiel here -- it's the same stuff I read when I first heard about them. The reading isn't particularly compelling, but it's informative enough if you pay attention. Basically, these spokes knock a good chunk of mass off of any wheel when compared with steel spokes, they don't give up any strength or stiffness in so doing, and they add a measure of dampness to a wheel.



Lighter, stronger, _and_ more comfortable? What's the catch?

Glad you asked. The catch is in cost per spoke, as well as in increased labor time to build each wheel. Which also adds more cost to each wheel. Basically, a wheelset built with these spokes is expensive relative to any other spoke available.

Your next question is undoubtedly some variation on "How much?" immediately followed by "Are they worth it?"

The answers are "quite a bit" and "it depends".

Let's not get ahead of ourselves...

My ears perked up when I learned that the source material is Dyneema, which I know and trust from the HMG packs that Jeny and I have used for years. The stuff is incredibly light and unbelievably abrasion resistant. I know there are a lot of other attributes that are important in a pack, but for me those are the big two. After years and years of abusing our HMG packs -- bushwhacking through alder and devils club in AK, grinding and dragging them through dry scrub oak and wet slot canyons in the Colorado Plateau -- and them being dirty but otherwise none the worse for wear, I've come to think of Dyneema as an incredibly impressive material.

"Sure", you're saying, "for a pack". But, good enough for bicycle spokes?

Read on.

It takes a good chunk longer to build a wheel with these spokes. Some of that is in the lacing process, as the loop at the head of the spoke needs to be pulled through the spoke hole in the hub, and this isn't as easy as it sounds. Then you slip a little 'rod' of Dyneema through that loop, pull the spoke tight by hand, then move on to the next one. It isn't complicated -- is actually anything but -- it just takes a little more time than you're used to. Home builders that love the process of building their own wheels will get to spend more time enjoying that process.



There is additional time required in the tensioning process, because the material these spokes are made from has inherent stretch. Basically you need to bring the wheel up to ~final tension, do some stress relief cycles, tension it again, stress relieve again, tension once more, then hang it up for a few days and let the spokes elongate. You do not finish a wheel built with these spokes in one sitting.



Come back to it a few days later, get it true/round/dished to spec, *then* balance it out at final tension. The guys at Berd will help you with the nuances of your spoke calc, and they'll also provide numbers appropriate to whichever tensiometer you're using. Expect to take 2+ hours on your first one, then maybe a little less on each subsequent. I can't see how you'll ever get build time equivalent to a steel spoked wheel, nor do I think it's important that that happens.



I only have _hundreds_ of miles on these spokes, on two different bikes, so the jury is still out on long term durability. Once I have _thousands_ of miles I'll feel more confident in saying what they can and cannot handle as far as abrasion and impact.






I did take a sharp shears to one, under tension, just to see how it would react, as sort of a crude abrasion test. It took several hacks at the thin section of the spoke to get it to cut, and even then it wasn't like you could cut immediately through the whole thing -- there were several strands that just wouldn't cut completely without several hacks and a lot of effort. In the video above I am not 'lillydipping' with the scissors -- I'm really cutting hard. The result of this crude experiment is confidence inspiring when considering sharp schist or shale plates that get thrown up, or even just incidental contact with the local square-edged sandstone and granite. Just one indicator, but an impressive one.



The ride is subtly different from anything else I've ridden before. I should clarify that on my first build with these I took an existing wheelset using DT 240s hubs, Derby carbon rims, and DT SuperComp spokes -- a wheelset that I'd ridden over 2k miles already -- and cut out the SuperComps, then relaced with the Berd's. I even re-used the same tires, at the same pressures, such that the only thing that had changed was the spoke material. This single change created a net loss of 110g per wheel. Not a misprint.

I could call them "damp" but you might get the idea that that means "slow". I could call them "quiet" but you might misconstrue that as "muted". Nothing about the ride is _extraordinary_ relative to a normal steel spoked wheel, it's just a _little_ different. I am princess and the pea when it comes to minutiae like this, and it's possible that what I feel when riding the Berd spokes just won't be noticeable to you. Put differently, there is no discernible difference in overall wheel stiffness in any plane, no change in how the overall package handles what you're throwing at it. They are still stiff, strong wheels -- they just got a lot lighter and now seem to absorb more vibration from the trail.

I'm not a hard-core numbers guy so I can't say that they make me feel x% fresher at the end of a ride. And I'm not fast so I can't say they make me faster. But I can say that I like the feel -- enough that I'm lacing another set for myself. The absorption of trail vibrations is noticeable enough that, were I still an endurance nerd out chasing sunsets, I'd emphatically be using these for both training and racing.

I'm building with them for customers effective immediately. Expect to gasp audibly at the price -- $8 per spoke plus extra labor time, on top of hubs, rims, and (probably) shipping.

Don't hesitate with questions.
​


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

how many threads do you need to create ? 
FFS

This place needs an enema


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

I've contacted the company about these but I will be lacing them myself . Should get my 4.5kg mtb even lower  !!!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

127.0.0.1 said:


> how many threads do you need


As noted at the very top of the thread, there are exactly 2. Thanks for your contribution.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Don't hesitate with questions.


Very neat ... now I can use dyneema on my bike in addition to my windsurf! One negative I can see is that Dyneema does get dirty so over time your nice white spokes will get to a brownie/gray tinge ...

A question: are they available for straight spoke hubs? Would be interesting to rebuild my DT XMC ...


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## Rodent Snapper (Aug 24, 2008)

Did you ever ride Spinergy wheels with pbo spokes back in the day. Your review reminds me very much of my old wheels from 2003-2004. They were more finished looking, but it wouldn't surprise me to find the are nearly the same. Spoke replacement was 10 bucks a spoke back then. Very nice smooth ride, and really strong/stiff per gram weight. Really liked those wheels.


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## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

Davide said:


> Very neat ... now I can use dyneema on my bike in addition to my windsurf! One negative I can see is that Dyneema does get dirty so over time your nice white spokes will get to a brownie/gray tinge ...
> 
> A question: are they available for straight spoke hubs? Would be interesting to rebuild my DT XMC ...


they are looking at adding other colours incl black later on I heard. And yes to straight pull hubs as well, although they don't seem to change the interface at all?


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

I would have thought as it has a loop on the end you can just put the spoke thread through the loop and use it on any hub .


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## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

so with these the sub kilo wheelset are sooo last yr, and even sub 900g are possible with decent components. The Italian bike shop Dream_Bikes just made a 860g carbon wheelset, thats 1/2 kilo off what was considered a very light wheelset before.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

poynt said:


> The Italian bike shop Dream_Bikes just made a 860g carbon wheelset


Do you have a link? I couldn't find it in their website


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Seb K said:


> I would have thought as it has a loop on the end you can just put the spoke thread through the loop and use it on any hub .


A girth hitch requires more material (doubling the entire loop back on itself) to achieve the desired spoke length than their current method.

From a WW perspective, their method is superior.


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## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

doccoraje said:


> Do you have a link? I couldn't find it in their website


they took custom versions of the Grigo rims probably about 255g, put full ceramic bearings in the Extralite hubs, which means around 155 and 65g each, custom nipples and the Berds which they claimed to be around 2.75g for their lengths.


__
http://instagr.am/p/BhmUStWhSaH/


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

Thanks Mike for sharing that. I didn't visit the Wheelbuilding subforum for some time and missed that post. I will clearly keep that in mind for my next build and look for your long term impression of those.

Btw, I'm going back to your how to guide everytime I do a new wheelbuild. Best information you can get!


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Company still hasn't got back to me both on Facebook or email . Guess they don't want to do business . Ah well back to titanium spokes . Will be ordering a new set of Pillar Xtra Lite spokes . About the same weight and stronger laterally .


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## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

are the pillars still about $5.80?, how about mixing in some of Mega SS in as well


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

poynt said:


> are the pillars still about $5.80?, how about mixing in some of Mega SS in as well


Yup but if you order more than 20 you get a discount . Actually I am in the middle of sanding the Pillar aerolite spokes I have . I have nearly finished removing all the white paint . Next is to fine sand them and polish and then I will mix them with the ti spokes I already have . The Pillar Xtra Lite titanium spokes will be for another project .


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Seb K said:


> Company still hasn't got back to me both on Facebook or email . Guess they don't want to do business . Ah well back to titanium spokes . Will be ordering a new set of Pillar Xtra Lite spokes . About the same weight and stronger laterally .


Why do you believe that a metal spoke, whether Ti or steel, would be "stronger" laterally?

Do you mean "stiffer"? If so, why?


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Why do you believe that a metal spoke, whether Ti or steel, would be "stronger" laterally?
> 
> Do you mean "stiffer"? If so, why?


Definitely stiffer but not 100% . With the fibre there is next to nothing to help support the rim when it buckles . At least with metal you have some give laterally and the wheel will buckle less .


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Seb K said:


> Definitely stiffer but not 100% . With the fibre there is next to nothing to help support the rim when it buckles . At least with metal you have some give laterally and the wheel will buckle less .


Spokes don't support the rim. They suspend the hub from the rim. This is wheelbuilding 101 stuff.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Seb K said:


> About the same weight and stronger laterally .


I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what "stronger" means in wheel terms.


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Spokes don't support the rim. They suspend the hub from the rim. This is wheelbuilding 101 stuff.


I know this but if you buckle the wheel then if the spoke is stronger the chances of buckling is reduced . Why the misunderstanding ?!!!


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

mikesee said:


> I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what "stronger" means in wheel terms.


By stronger I meant stronger to support the wheel from buckling (or at least buckling less) . You misunderstand me .


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Steel and titanium spokes don’t work that way, either. 


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Steel and titanium spokes don't work that way, either.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Of course they do .


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Seb K said:


> Of course they do .


How are objects under tension supporting the hub from below?

Please explain that to us.

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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> How are objects under tension supporting the hub from below?
> 
> Please explain that to us.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The hub from above


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Seb K said:


> The hub from above


They'd be pulling the hub down, not pushing it up. It's under tension, remember?

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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> They'd be pulling the hub down, not pushing it up. It's under tension, remember?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm talking about when the hub is under load


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Seb K said:


> I'm talking about when the hub is under load


The spokes at the bottom of the wheel are still under tension. If not, you have bigger problems to worry about than spoke material.

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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> The spokes at the bottom of the wheel are still under tension. If not, you have bigger problems to worry about than spoke material.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well of course they are but not as much as from above the hub . We have gone off slightly from my original point which is a metal spoke will be stronger and support the wheel better from buckling (lateral stiffness) . Anyhow been good talking to you .


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Seb K said:


> Well of course they are but not as much as from above the hub . We have gone off slightly from my original point which is a metal spoke will be stronger and support the wheel better from buckling (lateral stiffness) . Anyhow been good talking to you .


Actually this is wrong because spokes do nothing of the sort. It is nothing more than tension pulling on the rim at the angles from hub flanges. All lateral stiffness and strength comes from the rim once tension os applied.

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## Leo_camargos (Oct 18, 2013)

poynt said:


> are the pillars still about $5.80?, how about mixing in some of Mega SS in as well


Google "top venturer" you can get mega lite ss spokes from them 3.85/pc


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## Leo_camargos (Oct 18, 2013)

doccoraje said:


> Do you have a link? I couldn't find it in their website


Their site is Indice - Dream Bikes - Bike Jewellery I bought a lot of stuff from them already and I can say they sell some exotic italian parts for very good prices IMO. The 860g wheelset is not on their site yet but you can find extensive material about it on their facebook page.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Seb K said:


> Well of course they are but not as much as from above the hub . We have gone off slightly from my original point which is a metal spoke will be stronger and support the wheel better from buckling (lateral stiffness) . Anyhow been good talking to you .


With these sorts of 'facts' at your disposal, and your willingness to fling them around, I can see you being promoted to forum admin ASAP.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I see a theme build coming:
Stringbike | How it works


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Seb K said:


> Well of course they are but not as much as from above the hub . We have gone off slightly from my original point which is a metal spoke will be stronger and support the wheel better from buckling (lateral stiffness) . Anyhow been good talking to you .


The nipple will simply push out of the hole in the rim if the spoke on the opposite side of the wheel loses it's tension!


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## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

has anyone seen or had any experience with these. Pi-Rope spokes.

PI ROPE » News


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

poynt said:


> has anyone seen or had any experience with these. Pi-Rope spokes.
> 
> PI ROPE » News


we save weight compared to the above-mentioned manufacturers by using a double spoke instead of two individual spokes, ie we guide the spoke from the rim over the hub back to the rim. This saves two end connections and these end connections bring the most weight.


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## Pat2A (Jan 20, 2008)

127.0.0.1 said:


> we save weight compared to the above-mentioned manufacturers by using a double spoke instead of two individual spokes, ie we guide the spoke from the rim over the hub back to the rim. This saves two end connections and these end connections bring the most weight.


Yes, spokes are lighter but how much weigh the specific hubs?


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## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

it appeasr to be a complete system, so you have to use their hubs and rims as well. So not as useful to WW's as the Berds.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Cool tech. Can't wait to see where this sort of stuff ends up.

Thanks


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

A few months in now. I've ridden these wheels on three different bikes. They bring an undeniable compliance to the ride. Whether that's desirable is personal.

IMO people riding rigid bikes will benefit most from the compliance. Not sure whom *wouldn't* benefit from the loss of mass.

Checked tension on them this AM and can't see where they've deviated at all since being built.


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

Nice to know they are holding up without any problems. Any sign of abrasion/color change on the spokes with time?


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

That would be my question as well - I'd have concerns about discoloration on the spokes. Might sound trivial, but would hate to have them look crappy after a while.

I wonder if they have darker colours in development, or perhaps they are planning on the white spokes being a noticeable part of their branding. (?)


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

Also, what is your definition of compliance?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

lRaphl said:


> Nice to know they are holding up without any problems. Any sign of abrasion/color change on the spokes with time?


Spent the weekend bikepacking on this bike/these wheels. Really rough/disused trail on the Uncompahgre Plateau. Lots of fist-sized rocks flipping up -- sometimes from my front wheel into my rear wheel, other times from the rear wheel of the rider ahead, into my front wheel. Lots of superficial scuffs/scratches on the rims now. Can't see any markings on the spokes.

Color change: the ends of the spokes -- where the threaded metal bit exits the white dyneema -- are a bit dirty. Not sure if it's permanent or if it'll wash off. I don't tend to wash my bikes unless I get into bad mud, so it could be awhile til I have that answer.


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## OilcanRacer (Jan 4, 2008)

These are definitely being considered for my kuroshiro 29+ build.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

OilcanRacer said:


> These are definitely being considered for my kuroshiro 29+ build.


If you can afford them and if white (for now) spokes are OK, I struggle to find a reason NOT to use them.

Currently riding them on a 170/150 29+ bike and loving the whole package.


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## OilcanRacer (Jan 4, 2008)

mikesee said:


> If you can afford them and if white (for now) spokes are OK, I struggle to find a reason NOT to use them.
> 
> Currently riding them on a 170/150 29+ bike and loving the whole package.


Mikesee, do you forsee any problems using a 50mm kuroshiro rim with these spokes? It's going on a world traveling bikepacking bike.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

OilcanRacer said:


> Mikesee, do you forsee any problems using a 50mm kuroshiro rim with these spokes? It's going on a world traveling bikepacking bike.


You are going to go bikepacking across the world with proprietary components you won't be able to get or service in 95% of the world? This doesn't sound like a real good idea.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

OilcanRacer said:


> Mikesee, do you forsee any problems using a 50mm kuroshiro rim with these spokes? It's going on a world traveling bikepacking bike.


Nothing leaps to mind, but maybe you can share what your fears are based on where you're heading and your specific route?


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## OilcanRacer (Jan 4, 2008)

mikesee said:


> Nothing leaps to mind, but maybe you can share what your fears are based on where you're heading and your specific route?


Route will depend entirely on finances, which are unknown yet. Thinking diagonal across europe, meandering across western asian, skipping Mongolia and china, across india, Eastern Asia islands, typical Australia and new Zealand, bottom of Argentina heading north to usa.
Getting the tension right in the field if I have to replace a spoke, spokes due to unforseen failure.



Jayem said:


> You are going to go bikepacking across the world with proprietary components you won't be able to get or service in 95% of the world? This doesn't sound like a real good idea.


Not my first rodeo. Can handle replacing spokes if they break. Able to wait for replacement complete wheel if catastrophic rare calamity like bear attacks bike because ice cream I was eating melted and bike and tasted better than my stinky unwashed self.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Easy enough to replace spokes. Even easier because that rim is singlewall. Honestly I'd be more concerned about the Kuro's than the spokes, just because they are *so* stinking light. I haven't had problems with mine, but then I pretty much only ride them on snow.

The spokes are so light you could take 10 extra's and never know they're there.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

OilcanRacer said:


> Able to wait for replacement complete wheel if catastrophic rare calamity like bear attacks bike because ice cream I was eating melted and bike and tasted better than my stinky unwashed self.


Bears like stinky and unwashed so your bike should be fine


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## OilcanRacer (Jan 4, 2008)

My brother has been touring in the usa for 6 months so far on the 29er+ kuroshiro with sapium flat bladed spokes and a 50 lbs bike plus him with no problems. Rims do flex when tires get below 22 psi. But no problems so far. He is hiding out in Florida currently waiting for the storm to pass.



mikesee said:


> Easy enough to replace spokes. Even easier because that rim is singlewall. Honestly I'd be more concerned about the Kuro's than the spokes, just because they are *so* stinking light. I haven't had problems with mine, but then I pretty much only ride them on snow.
> 
> The spokes are so light you could take 10 extra's and never know they're there.


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## Sage of the Sage (Nov 10, 2011)

I really want to build a set of wheels for my Gravel bike with these, but at that cost, I’ll only be able to buy a couple of spokes/week...

Maybe I can sell something...


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Sage of the Sage said:


> I really want to build a set of wheels for my Gravel bike with these, but at that cost, I'll only be able to buy a couple of spokes/week...
> 
> Maybe I can sell something...


I feel ya. Any one need a kidney? hahaha


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## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

phlegm said:


> That would be my question as well - I'd have concerns about discoloration on the spokes. Might sound trivial, but would hate to have them look crappy after a while.
> 
> I wonder if they have darker colours in development, or perhaps they are planning on the white spokes being a noticeable part of their branding. (?)


Charlie just told me they are piloting Black spokes and I could have some now for my build, so give them a call.


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

So Mike C, after _thousands_ of miles, what do you think?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

FishMan473 said:


> So Mike C, after _thousands_ of miles, what do you think?


Do you have a specific question about them?


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

mikesee said:


> Do you have a specific question about them?


Just curious if they have held up. I know Dynema is tough stuff, but it just _feels like_ a fiber is going to suffer abrasion over time. Are you still using them?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Of the few dozen sets of these I've built, I've had very few reports of issues. The following are the ones that come to mind, and all were on different wheelsets.
-One Sapim nipple came loose on a customer's wheel and had to be replaced. Oddly, the replacement nip came loose also. Used a DT Prolock and that solved it. I've been using DT Prolock Hex nips with Berd's ever since, with no reported issues.
-One spoke broke on the metal threaded insert. Berd sent out a replacement.
-One of the loop inserts pulled/worked itself out, so that spoke lost all tension. It was still serviceable tho -- worked an awl through the loop to open it up, slipped in a new insert, and tensioned it back down.

That's all I can think of.

I have two sets of Berd wheels now. May build a third for my bikepacking rig this spring. I love the compliant ride.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I think this was asked very early on: do the white Berd spokes get visibly dirty? Also curious if they offer different colors.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

phlegm said:


> I think this was asked very early on: do the white Berd spokes get visibly dirty? Also curious if they offer different colors.











Spokes


Welcome to the future of cycling. At Berd, we have engineered an innovative bicycle spoke which is lighter, stronger, more durable, and more fun to ride than steel.




berdspokes.com





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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I have 2 sets of Berd spokes. One set is on my bike that gets ridden hard and sent on the regular (not that I'm a great rider or anything) and the other set is on my wife's bike and she can't offer any input or wear experience. 
Mine have held up fantastically for a long time now, however as I push harder and harder I really do notice the flex in the rear wheel. The rear rim is a heavy duty DH layup CarbonFan rim that should be quite stiff on it's own. 
Basically when traction and loads are very high (drop leading into a 40' G-out yesterday for example) my rear wheel flexes to such an extent that I have to stop and make certain that my rear tire isn't flat nor that my rear axle hasn't came loose. It's not really a big deal I guess but it makes me pause and does feel weird. 
This sensation has probably happened to me a total of 30-50x in the 18 months or so that I've had these rims, in the past it was very brief, maybe 1 second. This last time it felt loose for like 3-5 seconds, long enough for me to pull over and check the wheel. 
Maybe my rear wheel needs to be tensioned?
For trail or XC riding, I'd only purchase Berds. For a light rider, also only Berds.
However for a larger rider (I'm 182#s) doing DH bike park type things I'd either recommend normal spokes, or possibly 36 Berd spoke count in the rear.

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Are you sure the tension is correct?

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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Suns_PSD said:


> Maybe my rear wheel needs to be tensioned?


Sure sounds like it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

My rear wheel has remained very straight and only been lightly trued 3x I think.

Not sure I have anyone around here I'd trust to tension a Berd wheel.

How would I proceed?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Suns_PSD said:


> My rear wheel has remained very straight and only been lightly trued 3x I think.
> 
> Not sure I have anyone around here I'd trust to tension a Berd wheel.
> 
> How would I proceed?


Find a shop with a tensiometer _and_ a mechanic that knows how to use it. Ask your riding partners -- they might know of someone.

In the meantime, just squeeze pairs of opposing spokes on all of your wheels to get a baseline. To get the ride characteristics you've described you'll probably be able to feel how loose they are with your bare hands.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Re the white spokes, do they start to discolor, or is it a non-issue?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

phlegm said:


> Re the white spokes, do they start to discolor, or is it a non-issue?


The end closest to the rim gets a little grubby.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

mikesee said:


> Find a shop with a tensiometer _and_ a mechanic that knows how to use it. Ask your riding partners -- they might know of someone.
> 
> In the meantime, just squeeze pairs of opposing spokes on all of your wheels to get a baseline. To get the ride characteristics you've described you'll probably be able to feel how loose they are with your bare hands.


Thinking your on to something. When I squeeze the rear spokes compared to my front the rear Berd's seem looser. Will work on this and report back.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Suns_PSD said:


> Thinking your on to something. When I squeeze the rear spokes compared to my front the rear Berd's seem looser. Will work on this and report back.


Told you so Suns_PSD.

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