# Dropper post, who has ditched them and why?



## jspell (Jul 11, 2006)

Ok, I just got a new bike (Trek Top Fuel) with a dropper post. I have been riding a hard tail the last nine years and never saw the need for one. I don't ride steep or jumps, just old school cross country trails mainly tight and twisty with rolling hills. I have tried to use the post a few times but hate the transition from up to down as it just throws me off.
Anyone else go back to a rigid post? Am I missing something else?

_Admin edit: Photo added for newsletter and social_


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

This is MTBR. No matter what you ride, it’s wrong.

It’s your bike. Use the parts you want.
Personally, I’d give up suspension before I gave up my dropper, but that me. Someone will be along in a minute to tell me I’m doing it all wrong too.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

There are a lot of riders who say you can’t ride without one. I certainly feel I could ride without one and it wouldn’t be a big deal, but they are nice to have once you learn how and when to use it. However I did switch from a 150mm Fox Transfer to a 100mm Fox Transfer SL to lose half a pound and for my riding I don’t miss the extra travel or infinite positions. Ultimately a dropper allows you to ride faster in certain conditions. If that is not a concern for you and you’re having plenty of fun without one, then maybe a rigid post is right for you.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

If you run your post a little low to make it easier to float off the saddle, as I did before I got a dropper, you may find it useful to be able to set it higher for climbing but being able to drop it a little for that float room. You don't have to drop it all the way. Or maybe you don't need it.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

I never though I was going to like it. After just my first ride I could not imagine not having one. Game changer.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Honestly I find the dropper more useful for rolling terrain now that I'm comfortable with it. For rides that are just one long up and one long down, I don't have an issue with manually dropping the post. But you're not gonna do that for a rolling ride.

What about the "transition" bothers you?


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I can ride without one, did for years. I just won't now. It's too versatile. All the way up, down, and everywhere in between. Basically, the same experience as chazpat. Worst-case, it's nice mounting and dismounting. Like anything new, the transition gets to be second nature.


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## Ktse (Jul 12, 2008)

Before you ditch the dropper at least try take advantage of having the benefits of a low saddle. It can definitely transform your riding experience.

When the reverb first came out, I bought one, liked the benefits until it sagged, and realized it was just a liability and went back to a fixed post. For the bike I was riding at the time I could set the saddle at a comfortable medium and could do all trails with little issue. It wasn't necessary to have dropper because bikes were agile with 26" wheels and quicker handling.

Fast forward 10 years to the pandemic, I decided to buy a 29" trail bike with the current trend of long, low, and slack geometry. Droppers are now reliable, but more importantly most trail bikes, like the Top Fuel, are designed around dropper posts especially the geometry. In order to properly turn my long wheelbase (about half a foot longer) bike with 29 inch wheels, weighting the front tire and leaning the bike are absolutely necessary; droppers make this much easier. It has definitely changed how I ride as I drop the saddle down most of the ride and ride from a much more active standing position and raise the saddle for longer climbs.

Give it a couple more rides, you may learn to like it.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk


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## jspell (Jul 11, 2006)

When I am rolling into a tight switchback down hill I am sitting on the saddle and then drop the post and it just seems to throw me off and I can't make the corner. I guess it is the transition from the dropped low to standing the screws me up. Also, when going some what fast on the trail and come to a corner and try to drop the seat for cornering I have the same issue.


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

The whole 'I don't understand / didn't like (insert thing), tell me why I should' stuff is just one of the many beating hearts of subjectivity, or in this case, not actually doing anything that warrants its existence.

If you can live without a dropper post, congrats, you win... your life your way.

Have dropper posts revolutionised bike riding for many people? Absolutely. Do all riding styles get joy from it? lol... no.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

You're missing everything... Dropper posts are amazing unless you're just sitting and pedaling and not doing anything close to gnarly.... So if you're riding to the store I guess dropper posts are overkill. Or riding tame gravel or paved paths. I don't have droppers for those bikes.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jspell said:


> When I am rolling into a tight switchback down hill I am sitting on the saddle and then drop the post and it just seems to throw me off and I can't make the corner. I guess it is the transition from the dropped low to standing the screws me up. Also, when going some what fast on the trail and come to a corner and try to drop the seat for cornering I have the same issue.


Tells me you should be dropping the post sooner.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Are you dropping the post when you would normally stand up?


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

You can pry my droppers from my cold dead hands.

My gravel bike is the only bike I don’t feel a need for one, but if I rode gnarlier gravel, I would probably put one on that bike as well.

Even my wife, who doesn’t mountain bike, pouts when she has to ride a bike without one.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

How do you get on and off your bike without a dropper post?


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

BmanInTheD said:


> How do you get on and off your bike without a dropper post?


I tried to get back on my bike today and thought the dropper was dropped, it wasn’t.

Nearly had the biggest fall of the season!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

jspell said:


> Am I missing something else?


Yes, you are missing something.

You just upgraded bikes, from an old hardtail to a new full suspension, but you didn’t take the time to learn how to ride your new bike

Learn to ride the bike, and be don’t wait so long to upgrade in the future.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

It is absolutely possible to shred and have fun on a MTB without a dropper. Just as it is possible to shred and have fun on rigid bike or on a single speed or with drop bars or rim brakes…..

But there are alternatives to all of those things that also make mountain biking a lot of fun.


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## Canssago (9 mo ago)

I have a BMX background and has a GD dropper before any of the other companies even had thought of one. Changed MTB for me forever. I still remember at Nationals how many people were laughing at my bike and then on the DH section I was smiling as they were dropped!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Impetus said:


> This is MTBR. No matter what you ride, it’s wrong.
> 
> It’s your bike. Use the parts you want.
> Personally, I’d give up suspension before I gave up my dropper, but that me. Someone will be along in a minute to tell me I’m doing it all wrong too.


Same, I have rigid fatbikes, fatbikes with suspension and fatbikes with droppers. I'd rather have the dropper if I had to chose. Being able to easily duck for branches and stuff, being able to lower a little around uphill switchbacks, corner faster, little small downhills, etc. 

I guess if someone really wants to endo...ditch the dropper!


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

I _can _have fun downhill skiing on skinny skis with no metal edges…but I ALWAYS choose not to.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

jspell said:


> When I am rolling into a tight switchback down hill


This is really an area where you maximize a dropper if the turn isn't too tight.

As you seem to know, you want to lean your bike over pretty hard to make a tight turn and keep good traction and a dropper makes that much easier.

I too have a hard time making use of my dropper just because we don't have many extended descents, but you can try it on short descent, just letting the bike move under you, going where it pretty much wants to go with gentle input by you and see why people love them. Get in the habit of doing it for every downhill section of any length and you'll start to get it.

And then, when you come to that tight switchback, you'll have it down already and can lean and carve that turn, assuming it's not too tight to lean.

Anyway, it still has some use for us flatlanders and flatland riders.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Jayem said:


> Being able to easily duck for branches and stuff,


Haha wow I am dumb sometimes. I have on more occasions than I would like to admit, ducked insufficiently under low-hanging limbs and gotten my bell rung or my back scraped. So, when I approach a new low limb or one that looks like it has sagged since the last time, I get really low. But it never occurred to me to drop the seat. My word I am an idiot sometimes.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TwiceHorn said:


> Haha wow I am dumb sometimes. I have on more occasions than I would like to admit, ducked insufficiently under low-hanging limbs and gotten my bell rung or my back scraped. So, when I approach a new low limb or one that looks like it has sagged since the last time, I get really low. But it never occurred to me to drop the seat. My word I am an idiot sometimes.


It still happens, but now the bar is lower!


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## GoldenKnightMTB (11 mo ago)

How about watch a youtube video on how to best utilize a dropper?


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Someone PM BushwhackerinPA


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

TwiceHorn said:


> Haha wow I am dumb sometimes. I have on more occasions than I would like to admit, ducked insufficiently under low-hanging limbs and gotten my bell rung or my back scraped. So, when I approach a new low limb or one that looks like it has sagged since the last time, I get really low. But it never occurred to me to drop the seat. My word I am an idiot sometimes.


I was using mine last weekend to duck under Juro spider webs!


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

I can ride with them or without it really does not make that much of a difference to me but I do prefer one. 

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

ljsmith said:


> There are a lot of riders who say you can’t ride without one. I certainly feel I could ride without one and it wouldn’t be a big deal, but they are nice to have once you learn how and when to use it. However I did switch from a 150mm Fox Transfer to a 100mm Fox Transfer SL to lose half a pound and for my riding I don’t miss the extra travel or infinite positions. Ultimately a dropper allows you to ride faster in certain conditions. If that is not a concern for you and you’re having plenty of fun without one, then maybe a rigid post is right for you.


I did the exact same switch from 125mm fox transfer to 100mm transfer sl, it's taking some time to get used to but so far i like it!


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## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

eshew said:


> You're missing everything... Dropper posts are amazing unless you're just sitting and pedaling and not doing anything close to gnarly.... So if you're riding to the store I guess dropper posts are overkill. Or riding tame gravel or paved paths. I don't have droppers for those bikes.


You've got it the wrong way around. Only need one to raise the saddle when riding to the store, otherwise it can stay down. 

Also, it's not like you can't lower and raise a rigid seat post. As kids we used to even do it on the move with the QR lever but I mean I guess you could like stop and do it when you get to the start of of the trail. 

That said, the dropper is very nice. I like it.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

When I'm debating parts, I usually put them on a virtual scale. A (light) dropper adds at least a pound of weight, so I compare that pound to other parts I could swap. Beefier tires, suspension (shock, more complex frame) & set that in perspective to what I might gain on the trail with that other part.


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## Galenbo (Aug 3, 2020)

An advantage I haven't expected is now both my wife and I can ride the same bike, and switch often.


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## Brad Pitted (Oct 7, 2018)

rideit said:


> Someone PM BushwhackerinPA


I was trying to remember the name. That was an epic meltdown. Hope he’s doing well on his wife’s goat farm.

OP, try hitting some of those rolling sections 2 or 3 gears higher with the saddle dropped. Raise it when you need somewhere to sit. Riders generally don’t get along well with modern geo until they learn to steer with the lower body and carve turns.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

chazpat said:


> I was using mine last weekend to duck under Juro spider webs!


I was really expecting to see them up my way this year. They're here, but more sparse in distribution than I expected.


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

Haven’t ditched but just replaced mine due to manufacturer warranty. I was REALLY surprised at how heavy they are. 

If I didn’t use it as much I’d totally ditch.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

OP, I hear you. I bought a new bike last fall and it came with a dropper, my first one. I've ridden without one for over 20 years and I really struggled to get comfortable with it, to know when and how to use it. I mostly wanted to modulate how far down it went-if I dropped the saddle all the way I felt detached from the bike and it felt unstable to me. What really helped me, is a Wolftooth widget that limits how far the dropper drops. I used it to be able to drop the saddle out of the way but not drop it so far as to lose contact. I moved the widget up on the stantion gradually over the course of a couple of months until I felt comfortable just taking it off. I don't know if it would help you, but it really was just the ticket for me. Valais 25


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I want to get a petition going to get the name "dropper" posts changed to "riser" posts. Because all the way down is the proper position most of the time, until I need it to climb. 

Honestly, I use my dropper even more on XC rides than I do on winch and plummet gnarly DH. I could probably go back to a rigid post and quick release on my enduro bike, because on that bike I tend to do strictly long climbs and then fall-line descents back to the bottom -- nothing but climbing on the way up, then nothing but steep downhill all the way down. Stop at the top and slam the seat, like I've been doing for decades.

On more rolling terrain on my hardtail, I use my dropper more often than I shift or use the brakes -- and during that time it sees all kinds of positions, from fully slammed to just an inch or two down.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Have I gotten rid of a dropper on my Tallboy or 5010? No, and I have no plans to. However, I have been seriously looking at an XC hardtail that does not come with a dropper and I have no problems with that. I'm more drawn to the 22 lbs. weight.

In Norcal, earlier this year, I used a hardtail with no dropper for a week and had no issues with the mellow trails (compared to the Northeast) I rode with my buddy. On the steep and nasty trails I rode in Hawaii after that, I couldn't imagine no dropper and was damned glad I had an eBike. 

The right answer is "it depends."


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

I don't use a dropper, but I'll occasionally drop my post with a 4mm wrench for tech gnar or for a bike park day/enduro race. Yes, it's a little less convenient, but I've probably been riding MTB's a bit longer than most (35+ years) and old habits die hard. I've tried a couple of droppers (including high end ones) and can see the benefit, but for me, the "presence" of the saddle is how I know my position on the bike and I tend to grip it off road moto style at times. Net result is that I chose to not have a dropper on any of my bikes but again, will drop the saddle manually if needed for "outlier" situations.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Here's a data point that not too many people may have cross-correlated in the dropper discussion - the advent of baggy shorts. Seriously. I suspect a lot of people like the ease of movement on the bike with the dropper down because they're riding baggies. Not suggesting that's why they use them - since plenty of lycra clad XC pros do too - but I suspect that not getting snagged on the saddle when moving around on the bike with baggies is a legit reason too.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

Where I use my dropper the most is on steep downhills and at simple stops to take a break or wait for light. 

It's also a game changer in varying terrain to have the ability to squat and get over the back wheel. The transition back is seamless without the seat getting in the way. 



RickBullottaPA said:


> but I suspect that not getting snagged on the saddle when moving around on the bike with baggies is a legit reason too.


That might be a case of ill fitting gear. I wore my baggy gym shorts only once with my bike and they snagged regardless of the dropper. Now I have a pair of MTB specific shorts that go to me knees. Problem solved.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Here's a data point that not too many people may have cross-correlated in the dropper discussion - the advent of baggy shorts. Seriously. I suspect a lot of people like the ease of movement on the bike with the dropper down because they're riding baggies. Not suggesting that's why they use them - since plenty of lycra clad XC pros do too - but I suspect that not getting snagged on the saddle when moving around on the bike with baggies is a legit reason too.


I just bought a pair of baggies from Voler (find them on-line) and they are made so that snagging is not an issue. I'm very impressed. I wear lycra a lot and they seem to snag easily.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Here's a data point that not too many people may have cross-correlated in the dropper discussion - the advent of baggy shorts. Seriously. I suspect a lot of people like the ease of movement on the bike with the dropper down because they're riding baggies. Not suggesting that's why they use them - since plenty of lycra clad XC pros do too - but I suspect that not getting snagged on the saddle when moving around on the bike with baggies is a legit reason too.


I personally don’t think one has to do with the other.

I think it’s a combination of several things in general, but shorts is very, very low down that list.

One of the bigger reasons I think droppers are so prolific and viewed as mandatory at this point is geometry changes in bike design.

Steeper STA’s push the saddle much further forward in space when you’re out of the saddle. This puts the saddle in a position, when it’s not dropped, that it’s much more in the way when trying to lean the bike over or traversing chunky terrain.

I started to use my dropper a BUNCH more once I got my Ripley V4 as it was the first bike I owned with a more modern STA and I found the saddle was much more in the way when standing on the pedals.

Now add that they are far, far more reliable and pretty inexpensive at this point, why wouldn’t most people run them?

People have been spoiled being able to easily have an efficient saddle height and right to a party mode at the push of a lever.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Only bike I have without a riser post is my DJ. Sometimes it would be nice to sit and pedal it around though.


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## jspell (Jul 11, 2006)

After reviewing all the comments, and really thinking this through, I feel like I may be dropping the seat to far for my cornering. I think I need to practice how I drop it to control the height better. Most of the rides on my new bike have just riding to get used to the new geometry, getting the bike dialed in and enjoying riding again (I quit riding the trails for 2 years due to arthritis and only rode the pavement/gravel on my hardtail) . Of course It is to wet to ride for a few days but can't wait to do some more experimenting. 
But thanks for all the comments, good and not so good! Keep them coming!


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## Franklee (6 mo ago)

I've had two name brand droppers that failed within weeks, went back to rigid and stopped worrying about it. I don't think they're perfected yet. Granted I didn't try any top of the line posts.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

rideit said:


> Someone PM BushwhackerinPA


His ghost obviously lives on in some of the comments here.

"I can't get on or off my bike without one, so no one else could possibly so much as ride off a curb. Oh, and no one rode anything other than a dirt sidewalk until 10 years ago."

It's never enough for gear weenies to just say "I like them". It's always gotta be "Anyone who doesn't buy what I buy isn't a 'real' rider." LOL

I have 3 droppers. 2 live in my seatpost junk drawer, one is on my current 'new' bike and I hardly use it. 
I also don't like to shift a lot, but don't have the fitness/mindset to go SS. Fiddling with **** while riding annoys me. 🤷‍♂️


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I don't much care about droppers. I have one bike with (because it came with the bike), and one bike without. I DO use the dropper, but often forget it's there and leave the seat up. For the most part I only remember to lower it for long descents. If I were building a bike from scratch, I don't know that I'd bother, or maybe I'd get one that was actuated with a level on the bottom of the saddle. Like I said, it's just not that important to me.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> Fiddling with **** while riding annoys me. 🤷‍♂️


Good point there. that is a major ride kill when you have someone in the group constantly stopping to fiddle with stuff like suspension clickers and such during a ride.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Franklee said:


> I've had two name brand droppers that failed within weeks, went back to rigid and stopped worrying about it. I don't think they're perfected yet. Granted I didn't try any top of the line posts.


What modern posts failed that fast?

I’ve actually yet to have a modern post outright fail on me.

In the last several years I’ve been on; PNW, OneUp, TranzX, KS, and Reverb AXS.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

ballisticexchris said:


> Good point there. that is a major ride kill when you have someone in the group constantly stopping to fiddle with stuff like suspension clickers and such during a ride.


This is why I ride solo when I’m dialing in new equipment, especially suspension.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

jspell said:


> After reviewing all the comments, and really thinking this through, I feel like I may be dropping the seat to far for my cornering. I think I need to practice how I drop it to control the height better. Most of the rides on my new bike have just riding to get used to the new geometry, getting the bike dialed in and enjoying riding again


I used to think that back when I was used to the saddle being a point of reference for how far the bike is leaned over. Once I got that idea out of my head and realized the thing is simply not in the way, it got easier.

Just like learning new geo, it takes time to get used to a dropper. (any new thing, really) Took me a while, too. Neither are really wrong, per se, but there are definite advantages to having one.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

ballisticexchris said:


> Good point there. that is a major ride kill when you have someone in the group constantly stopping to fiddle with stuff like suspension clickers and such during a ride.


Well, not like people are stopping to mess with them, and most of the people I ride with are faster than me regardless. LOL

I personally just prefer to just ride and not be adjusting **** every few seconds, whether that be gears or seatposts or whatever.
It's distracting to me, and I don't find I'm often in a situation where I really need to move my seat.


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## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

jspell said:


> Ok, I just got a new bike (Trek Top Fuel) with a dropper post. I have been riding a hard tail the last nine years and never saw the need for one. I don't ride steep or jumps, just old school cross country trails mainly tight and twisty with rolling hills. I have tried to use the post a few times but hate the transition from up to down as it just throws me off.
> Anyone else go back to a rigid post? Am I missing something else?


Getting new technology doesn’t mean your reflexive or thoughtful actions change immediately, and even if they do there’s very little chance you’d quickly be adjusting to some new optimal style. 

This is true regardless of the influence of your local trails. Further, and the speed with which someone tests and adapts is probably pretty tightly correlated with their level of expertise (knowing what techniques are best applied in what situations and having the capacity to execute them).

So, yeah, different for everyone but unless you ride all flat, smooth stuff, it’s hard to imagine that you won’t pretty quickly come to understand just how dramatically the dropper changes what the realm of possibility is. 

Or in USMC simplicity - dude, if in two weeks you don’t see how much less likely you are to go OTB, you’re right, you don’t need a dropper.


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## Spokey-Doke (Apr 4, 2005)

It might also depend on how old you are. I started in 1984. I was (am still?) known as a fast downhiller. The saddle has always been part of the steering and stabilizing equation when things get crazy. It feels really weird to me when it isn't there. Even in my BMX days in the early '80s I rode with my seat really high unless I was racing.

That said, I don't ride "modern" geo (yet). I like hardtails. I—or more specifically, my knees—like my STA around 73 degrees (I know, I know). I'm riding a Timberjack with a 130 Pike right now. At some point I will need to move to a full suspension. But not yet. Not yet. (Gladiator)

I had a dropper. It was cool for going over a big log or dropping off a boulder, and super fun for long manuals, but I know how to ride that same stuff without one too. Some people may not like to have their ass on the tire and saddle on their chest, but I have done it that way for decades.

I took it off when I realized I went four or five rides without ever touching it. It was just extra stuff.


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## Peetey (Jul 14, 2004)

I tried to like them but never used em and felt like a frog when I sat on it. Besides, I always stand up when i am descending, especially on anything tricky or sketchy (clipless pedals) and have no problem "leaning" my sled with the seat up except for the steepest and scariest stuff I may encounter.(1% of the riding I do) I also like the leverage a post in the proper riding position provides to me when standing up. I don't ride lifts, don't use shuttles and try to stay seated and firmly connected to terra firma as much as I can at my old age. Droppers, platforms, wide bars, 1x, full face helmets and all the rest of the "game changing" "improvements" are meaningless to me personally so not interested. Certainly they are well-loved by many,(if not most) including most of my riding buddies. I guess I am just not "with it" and to be honest, don't "need it". Remember fellow riders, to each their own.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

DGUSMC said:


> So, yeah, different for everyone but unless you ride all flat, smooth stuff, it’s hard to imagine that you won’t pretty quickly come to understand just how dramatically the dropper changes what the realm of possibility is.
> 
> Or in USMC simplicity - dude, if in two weeks you don’t see how much less likely you are to go OTB, you’re right, you don’t need a dropper.


I'm in New England, so not much as far as flat and smooth around here.
I've had the one on my current bike for a couple years now and on previous bikes on and off for a few years before that and really just find I hardly use it.
Haven't had a problem with going OTB since the 90's. 🤷‍♂️

Of course, my actual DH bike has a slammed seat, as do my DJ and BMX bikes, but those are for different games than trail riding, though I definitely understand why people do like droppers. Just not something I personally find useful.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

FrankS29 said:


> One of the bigger reasons I think droppers are so prolific and viewed as mandatory at this point is geometry changes in bike design.
> 
> Steeper STA’s push the saddle much further forward in space when you’re out of the saddle. This puts the saddle in a position, when it’s not dropped, that it’s much more in the way when trying to lean the bike over or traversing chunky terrain.


I agree this is a major factor. Another is that as Gene Hamilton likes to point out, it took riders a while to understand how bikes actually turn, and techniques have changed a lot over the decades. 



Spokey-Doke said:


> Some people may not like to have their ass on the tire and saddle on their chest, but I have done it that way for decades.


As did I. And I can tell you from experience that when you move to a modern bike that style will leave your front wheel underweighted and it will slide out when you try to turn.


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## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

slapheadmofo said:


> I'm in New England, so not much as far as flat and smooth around here.
> I've had the one on my current bike for a couple years now and on previous bikes on and off for a few years before that and really just find I hardly use it.
> Haven't had a problem with going OTB since the 90's. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> Of course, my actual DH bike has a slammed seat, as do my DJ and BMX bikes, but those are for different games than trail riding, though I definitely understand why people do like droppers. Just not something I personally find useful.


And you surely have the requisite expertise to trust your instincts and conclusions.


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## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

FrankS29 said:


> This is why I ride solo when I’m dialing in new equipment, especially suspension.


Love the Gene Hamilton reference. Gene seems like equal parts surfer and physicist and he absolutely understands that techniques evolve as technology changes what is possible (i don't mean to suggest all change is beneficial). He’s even better at picking out what constrains individual capability (flexibility, balance, habit, bike, etc). Great coach!


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## Smartattack (8 mo ago)

I personally can't imagine how boring some trails must be to not see the use of a dropper. I would probably prefer to trade my round wheels for squares before giving up the dropper.


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## Spokey-Doke (Apr 4, 2005)

evasive said:


> As did I. And I can tell you from experience that when you move to a modern bike that style will leave your front wheel underweighted and it will slide out when you try to turn.


We shall see. I have tried several new trail bikes and I seriously hate the steep seat tube angles. I don't actively race much anymore, but I still tend to ride fast like I always have. That leaves me with hardtails and the raciest of FS bikes. Even those are rocking 75 degree STA at this point. Ah well.


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## BarryR (6 mo ago)

Obviously to each his own and if you're happy without a dropper, fine, however, I'm definitely in the "wouldn't live without one" club.

I have had some failures including on my 1 year old Specialized Stump Jumper. Got it repaired for free although just out of warranty but I would have been without any post for about a month and bought a 200mm travel PNW which is great! Comes with an amazing lifetime warranty. So, if it does fail, I now have the original post as a backup while it gets fixed.

Anyway, it's physics. If you're turning, going down hill or over a jump/roller, you want your center of gravity lower & your ass might need to move behind the seat. Uphill you want your knee to be almost fully extended, etc at the bottom of the stroke for maximum power.

I LOVE my dropper post & can't figure out why anyone would do without one.
The only downside is that they do sometimes fail.

With a 1X set up, it's very easy to rapidly adjust the dropper with your left hand. With a 2X setup I imagine it might be more challenging. I move my post about as much as I shift and it's pretty much 2nd nature.


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## Spokey-Doke (Apr 4, 2005)

Smartattack said:


> I personally can't imagine how boring some trails must be to not see the use of a dropper. I would probably prefer to trade my round wheels for squares before giving up the dropper.


There was mountain biking before the dropper. I raced the Tahoe-Roubaix in 1986, which took place on the Rubicon Trail. No dropper, no suspension, narrow tires, cantilever brakes. We did just fine and it was far from boring.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Smartattack said:


> I personally can't imagine how boring some trails must be to not see the use of a dropper.


Sounds like you haven't gotten or been around much.

The vast majority of trails have been around long before some people decided to declare a dropper a 'necessity'. LOL
I regularly see riders with rigid posts ride things that some people with droppers (not all obviously) avoid.
Been know to do it myself.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

DGUSMC said:


> And you surely have the requisite expertise to trust your instincts and conclusions.


Thanks. You are now banned from the world of internet mountain biking. One more post like that and the gear-weenie police will be at your door!


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I love these threads though. I get to feel really young, and so old at the same time.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Spokey-Doke said:


> There was mountain biking before the dropper. I raced the Tahoe-Roubaix in 1986, which took place on the Rubicon Trail. No dropper, no suspension, narrow tires, cantilever brakes. We did just fine and it was far from boring.


I'm familiar with that terrain. I think about all the optional line choices one could take with a dropper and how it would make the ride 1000x radder.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

slapheadmofo said:


> Sounds like you haven't gotten or been around much.
> 
> The vast majority of trails have been around long before some people decided to declare a dropper a 'necessity'. LOL
> I regularly see riders with rigid posts ride things that some people with droppers (not all obviously) avoid.
> Been know to do it myself.


Sure, we lowered the saddle at the top. But it sucked pedaling up the intermediary uphills. And then there's the rolling terrain as mentioned before. Being able to do this stuff without stopping and optimized for each situation is a game changer.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> I love these threads though. I get to feel really young, and so old at the same time.


I hear ya. I'm apparently too old for droppers and riding an MTB anywhere but the sidewalk, but I also built this up a few weeks back and I swear I'm gonna land a 3 before winter. 
Maybe...

Hey lookit - no dropper!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Jayem said:


> I'm familiar with that terrain. I think about all the optional line choices one could take with a dropper and how it would make the ride 1000x radder.


Around here, most of go-around lines didn't show up until 29ers got popular. 
Before that, the tougher lines WERE the trail. 



Jayem said:


> Sure, we lowered the saddle at the top. But it sucked pedaling up the intermediary uphills. And then there's the rolling terrain as mentioned before. Being able to do this stuff without stopping and optimized for each situation is a game changer.


Really depends. For riding the more technical stuff around my area, I've never really found much use for having the seat all the way up or all the way down. I don't do big drops and never really did and I'm pretty comfortable rolling or getting up anything I'm likely to run into on non-lift serviced trails with my seat where it usually lives, a good few inches below dirt-roadie height.

Sure, for certain rides, it's convenient to be able to pop it for longer climbs to get good extension, but there really aren't a lot of long climbs around here either. Mostly twisty and rocky/rooty singletrack, where I simply don't find a need to be messing with my seat. Again, not telling anyone else what to do by any means. Just makes me laugh when people think because it's a necessity for them, it's the same for everyone.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

jspell said:


> Ok, I just got a new bike (Trek Top Fuel) with a dropper post. I have been riding a hard tail the last nine years and never saw the need for one. I don't ride steep or jumps, just old school cross country trails mainly tight and twisty with rolling hills. I have tried to use the post a few times but hate the transition from up to down as it just throws me off.
> Anyone else go back to a rigid post? Am I missing something else?


While you don't have to use it all the time, I believe it's better to have it and not use that much then not have one and wish you did. The weight penalty isn't really that big of a deal if you are concerned about weight.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

I don't think anybody here considers it a "necessity". Disc brakes aren't a "necessity", nor is suspension, shifters, etc. The point people are making here is that it has made riding most places more fun and faster while still being in control than without one. Someone mentioned they had their seat slammed down on their DH bike. Why? So you can have the saddle out of the way for better cornering and descending I would presume. Don't you want that on a trail ride as well?

Again, not a necessity, but all my mountain bikes, even my XC bike, have droppers, gears, suspension, disc brakes, etc. Because, well, controlled fast is more funnerer...


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

This morning was an eye opener as to why I now find the Dropper indispensable. I took the hard "high rocky/roots" section of my local trail for the first time in almost 30 years. Wow what a change!! I was coming down off of it into a rutted out steep blind turn that had a small drop into a concrete culvert that was not there 30 years ago. 

I dang near went over the bars!! Thankfully I was able to save it by dropping my post so I could get a foot planted. It happened all so fast. Having that button saved myself from a concrete nap. So an unequivocal yes to dropper posts. Whoever invented these deserves a pat on the back.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

BmanInTheD said:


> I don't think anybody here considers it a "necessity".


I do. You get to a certain level of gnar and you can't ride with a seat up the rectum. Ok you can manually drop the seat like we did in 2006. but that's a pain in the arse. Dropper posts have opened up many tracks that would otherwise be annoying as hell manually adjusting the seat up and down all the time or just riding with the uncomfortably seat low on flat or up sections. Its truly a game changer for me.

Hell, I even use my drop on the flat and going uphill!..... You can clean some technical climbing terrain with the seat dropped that you can't do with it lifted.

I think that people who don't find a dropper useful are either riding very very benign track or haven't fully explored the advantages they give.

I think op is in the latter camp. He needs to explore what is possible. 

I remember back in the day when I was an XC whippet and transitioned to DH. It took me a while to get used to not having a seat at height. I used to use control with my thighs leaning against the seat. I thought what is this stupid seat down milarky? But I was wrong. Seat down was far superior for bike control once I got used to it.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Dropper? Of course. I drop her every time I ride with her.


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## EKEL (Sep 12, 2014)

Give it more time. I use mine more than I shift; not just for downhills but corners, techy climbs, rock gardens, everything. See if you get used to it; it just allows the bike to float around under you more easily.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

plummet said:


> I do. You get to a certain level of gnar and you can't ride with a seat up the rectum. Ok you can manually drop the seat like we did in 2006. but that's a pain in the arse. Dropper posts have opened up many tracks that would otherwise be annoying as hell manually adjusting the seat up and down all the time or just riding with the uncomfortably seat low on flat or up sections. Its truly a game changer for me.
> 
> Hell, I even use my drop on the flat and going uphill!..... You can clean some technical climbing terrain with the seat dropped that you can't do with it lifted.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you said. I was just pushing back on the people that are saying we're misguided for singing the praises of the dropper and that they can ride just fine without one. My point was that along with disc brakes and decent suspension, the dropper is one of the best inventions ever for mountain biking. No matter what they say, they're not riding decent terrain as well and fast as they could with a dropper post. And I sure as hell wouldn't ride without one now. But a lot of us USED to, so they're not necessary in that sense.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

EKEL said:


> Give it more time. I use mine more than I shift; not just for downhills


😆


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

Rarely used my first dropper post, partially because it didn't work well when dirty, and it did feel awkward at first descending without the saddle between the thighs stabilizing the bike. I had been riding many years without, so there's that. Picked up a freebee later on, decided to try it out again, after a ride or two, totally different experience. I wouldn't purposefully go without one again.


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## nauc (Sep 9, 2009)

i hate dropper posts, wheels too. i took my wheels off a couple years ago, its great! i ride all over the place, never get flats. huck off huge ****, never break wheels

its SOOOO much better!


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

no dropper here,, xc trails mainly


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## Smartattack (8 mo ago)

slapheadmofo said:


> Sounds like you haven't gotten or been around much.
> 
> The vast majority of trails have been around long before some people decided to declare a dropper a 'necessity'. LOL
> I regularly see riders with rigid posts ride things that some people with droppers (not all obviously) avoid.
> Been know to do it myself.


Not as long as some but my first MTB was in '91. I fully realize where a bike can "go" without certain equipment, I also realize the namby pamby line choice and speed used to do so 😂

I rode plenty in the days of lesser equipment...I guess I just don't have as much nostalgia for the period as some. In fact I remember long before droppers existed thinking how nice it would be for some kind of device to get the seat out of my ass sometimes.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Damn, if there had been a good dropper back in ‘88, I would have had it in a heartbeat to replace my Hite-Rite!

in ‘92-93 there was the PowerPost, but it was too klunky.


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## FJ40runr (Aug 27, 2017)

Tubeless and droppers are probably the two single greatest recent-ish innovations in MTB. I started after a long hiatus and didn’t get it, as soon as I rode a bike w/ dropper my mind was changed. This hiatus allowed me to kinda start at square one w/o an actual take (aside from seeing it as lazy). Take my gears, take my suspension fork, but don’t take my tubeless tires or dropper. Trails gotta be real boring, or you gotta be a real weight weenie willing to give up outright performance to give up the dropper.


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## Kelly Parker (Mar 15, 2017)

Smartattack said:


> Not as long as some but my first MTB was in '91. I fully realize where a bike can "go" without certain equipment, I also realize the namby pamby line choice and speed used to do so 😂
> 
> I rode plenty in the days of lesser equipment...I guess I just don't have as much nostalgia for the period as some. In fact I remember long before droppers existed thinking how nice it would be for some kind of device to get the seat out of my ass sometimes.


I’ve got no problem with a dropper if it’s your game. I have knee problems so better to leave post in same position for me. I also have problems with remembering to raise and lower when needed. Set and forget for me. Same for suspension. I’m also for a tall bottom bracket (imagine peddling without hitting all those rocks). Not into the gravity super jumping (to many bad body parts). Alabama Old school gnarly trails. just ride.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

The dropper helped my knee issues. I can pedal at optimal height, then reduce only when needed. As opposed to always having the saddle down a bit.


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## Canssago (9 mo ago)

Honestly, the guys not using them do not ride the same trails. Back in the mid 90's, used to have to put the saddle firmly in the stomach and sit on the back tire to not go over the bars on the steep rocky trails and held on. Rode a trail today that I used to ride without the dropper and can keep my hands on the bar and brakes and STILL steer. It was glorious and I went way to fast!


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

These guys who say “I can take it or leave it” are doing a different sport.

Many of the trails I ride — my favorites anyway— are impossible to ride with your seat up your @ss. You’d die, guaranteed. No, it’s not the same putting your rear on the back tire and having your seat tickling your sternum. That is and always was _poor technique_, and will get you maimed or killed on certain trails/features.

As someone else said, it must be really boring riding trails where a dropper is “not worth it.”


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## Canssago (9 mo ago)

cookieMonster said:


> These guys who say “I can take it or leave it” are doing a different sport.
> 
> Many of the trails I ride — my favorites anyway— are impossible to ride with your seat up your @ss. You’d die, guaranteed. No, it’s not the same putting your rear on the back tire and having your seat tickling your sternum. That is and always was _poor technique_, and will get you maimed or killed on certain trails/features.
> 
> As someone else said, it must be really boring riding trails where a dropper is “not worth it.”


It was never poor technique, LMAO - it was the only way to get down the trail.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

I have an old school dropper I never use, and a new school one I never don't..


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

Canssago said:


> It was never poor technique, LMAO - it was the only way to get down the trail.


You couldn’t stop to loosen the quick release?


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

I think he is saying he is only 4’6”.


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## mtwitch19 (Oct 27, 2021)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Here's a data point that not too many people may have cross-correlated in the dropper discussion - the advent of baggy shorts. Seriously. I suspect a lot of people like the ease of movement on the bike with the dropper down because they're riding baggies. Not suggesting that's why they use them - since plenty of lycra clad XC pros do too - but I suspect that not getting snagged on the saddle when moving around on the bike with baggies is a legit reason too.


I upgraded to a Trek Rail in 2021. My first Dropper post bike. I hadn't figured out how to use it right and on an early ride I was starting up on a steep downhill hairpin corner. Not thinking about dropping the post, I launched and caught my shorts on the nose of the saddle. The result was both painful and somewhat bloody, but the bike was OK. I've learned about the advantages of a dropper post since. I don't really drop it all the way, but on steeper downhills, it's nice to have that extra movement


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It's nice to be able to drop the saddle slightly on steep super-tight *uphill *switchbacks. Trying to get around the turn on an AM/enduro bike can be pretty challenging, but dropping the saddle an inch or so helps a bunch. 

That kind of brings me to the point about adjust, infinite adjust definitely goes hand in hand with droppers IME. There are times on slight downhills where I just want to be a little lower so I can keep pedaling, but I don't need it to be slammed. Then there's steep rock sections where I want it slammed, but there are a lot of "in-between" points.


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

I am am always late to the game - and my 2016 Trek Stash came with one - holy smokes - drop the post and let it rip!! 
I love it and put one on my fat bike as well. 

I only drop the post maybe once or twice at most during a ride - but really I love riding things that are super tec. twisty and well post dropping. 

On rides that are flat - or fireroad -I never drop. 

Ride what you like - and enjoy the ride.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

I don’t run a dropper on my rigid because it’s not cool. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Proud to be in the 'take it or leave it' camp. 
Some of the trails I ride now are the same ones I rode 20 years ago with 26" wheels, V-brakes and a fixed seat-post but I can go faster with 29" wheels, disc brakes and a dropper...Either way I'll keep riding if I lost any or all of those, just slower.


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## Canssago (9 mo ago)

cookieMonster said:


> You couldn’t stop to loosen the quick release?


QR were too heavy, c'mon bro, do you even ride?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

DrDon said:


> I don’t run a dropper on my rigid because it’s not cool.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Oh yes it is!

OTBing isn't cool. The dropper allows me to let her rip down rough downhills that I would never hit with such speed for fear of my front wheel hanging and flipping me over. Without a suspension fork to absorb impacts and allow the front end to move up and over, getting the weight down and back is even more important. But maybe I'm not cool. 

Toward the end of a ride when my legs are getting tired, I'll often drop the saddle down some while cruising through some flatter sections just to shift to some different muscles.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

cookieMonster said:


> These guys who say “I can take it or leave it” are doing a different sport.
> 
> Many of the trails I ride — my favorites anyway— are impossible to ride with your seat up your @ss. You’d die, guaranteed. No, it’s not the same putting your rear on the back tire and having your seat tickling your sternum. That is and always was _poor technique_, and will get you maimed or killed on certain trails/features.
> 
> As someone else said, it must be really boring riding trails where a dropper is “not worth it.”


Damn, you're so hard bro. 

I often wonder if it's guys like you who aren't doing a different sport. It sure ain't the "mountain biking" most of us have been doing for decades. It's more like stunt riding or something. I mean yeah, it's a bike, and you're riding/sliding it down a mountain. We used to call it downhill, then freeride, now I have no idea what to call it. It's similar to how Hard Enduro has kind of branched off from trail riding in the moto world, but you guys have failed to come up with a new name for yourselves. Instead you just want to talk about how fucking hard you are, and **** all over everything and everyone who came before you, or anyone who enjoys the sport in their own way. It's all pretty boorish imho.


.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

Jayem said:


> It's nice to be able to drop the saddle slightly on steep super-tight *uphill *switchbacks. Trying to get around the turn on an AM/enduro bike can be pretty challenging, but dropping the saddle an inch or so helps a bunch.


That is a very helpful tip. I'm going to try that on my next ride. I've worked my way up to the alternative uphill "hard ways" on my local trail. I'm looking for ways to keep my front end down for the uphill turns. As it is I'm so far forward the tip of the seat is threatening to poke into my butt!!


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

I appreciate it any time I have to start after a pause on steep, off-camber terrain. Very nice to be able to stop while both seated and flat-footed too. Maybe I’m just a lazy old coot?


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

Dkayak said:


> I appreciate it any time I have to start after a pause on steep, off-camber terrain. Very nice to be able to stop while both seated and flat-footed too. Maybe I’m just a lazy old coot?


I do the same and find myself stopping catch my breath and regroup a lot these days. Also having a bad back I'm able to drop the post at stops and get a good stretch while still straddling the bike.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

ballisticexchris said:


> I do the same and find myself stopping catch my breath and regroup a lot these days. Also having a bad back I'm able to drop the post at stops and get a good stretch while still straddling the bike.


I’d have one for these reasons *alone*, but also find it useful while riding, including smaller adjustments.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cookieMonster said:


> These guys who say “I can take it or leave it” are doing a different sport.
> 
> Many of the trails I ride — my favorites anyway— are impossible to ride with your seat up your @ss. You’d die, guaranteed. No, it’s not the same putting your rear on the back tire and having your seat tickling your sternum. That is and always was _poor technique_, and will get you maimed or killed on certain trails/features.
> 
> As someone else said, it must be really boring riding trails where a dropper is “not worth it.”


If I'm riding trails like that around here chances are at least 90% I took a lift up and my seat's already where it needs to be.

Speaking of 90%, that's about 9.9% shy of people who pretend on the internet that they're riding the trails you ride, but really are just Joe Overbike puttering along on basic **** thinking they bought their way into a Gear Weenie Gatekeeper position.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BmanInTheD said:


> I agree with everything you said. I was just pushing back on the people that are saying we're misguided for singing the praises of the dropper and that they can ride just fine without one. My point was that along with disc brakes and decent suspension, the dropper is one of the best inventions ever for mountain biking. No matter what they say, they're not riding decent terrain as well and fast as they could with a dropper post. And I sure as hell wouldn't ride without one now. But a lot of us USED to, so they're not necessary in that sense.


No one pushes back against people liking droppers. No one says anyone is 'misguided' for liking them. Ever.

What happens is some people say 'meh, I personally am fine without one' and people get all weird about it and start pretending it's impossible to ride an actual trail without one and that choosing not to run one is the same thing as saying no one should. News flash - it never happened. You can all relax - if you require a $300 seatpost with a lever to be able to get on and off your bike or ride over a log, no one's judging you. 

Well, maybe a little...


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## Smartattack (8 mo ago)

This guy also saw no reason to make any mechanical improvements...










All you guys with your fancy pants V brakes, multi tube frames, and chain driven rear wheels - psshhh


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

_CJ said:


> Damn, you're so hard bro.
> 
> I often wonder if it's guys like you who aren't doing a different sport. It sure ain't the "mountain biking" most of us have been doing for decades. It's more like stunt riding or something. I mean yeah, it's a bike, and you're riding/sliding it down a mountain. We used to call it downhill, then freeride, now I have no idea what to call it. It's similar to how Hard Enduro has kind of branched off from trail riding in the moto world, but you guys have failed to come up with a new name for yourselves. Instead you just want to talk about how fucking hard you are, and **** all over everything and everyone who came before you, or anyone who enjoys the sport in their own way. It's all pretty boorish imho.
> 
> ...


I like the term hard enduro. It kinda sums up what I do on an mtb. It's similar to moto hard enduro in the way that it's some between enduro riding and dh trials features and not just slamming full pace enduro laps at the bike park. 

When does a subset of a sport become a new sport? 

I do agree with the cookie monster. My favorite trails are not possible with the seat up. Back when seats stayed up in my xc days we never even considered these types of tracks ridable or even remotely possible. 
So the impossible is a daily ride and that is awesome.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

plummet said:


> I like the term hard enduro. It kinda sums up what I do on an mtb. It's similar to moto hard enduro in the way that it's some between enduro riding and dh trials features and not just slamming full pace enduro laps at the bike park.


I could not even imagine doing some of the hard enduro stuff on a MTB that I could do on my KTM 300. Having that 2T to help me get over nasty terrain was amazing!!


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## La Nada (Mar 1, 2017)

My first bike with a dropper had a 73 degree seat angle and I didn't get what all the fuss was about. Kind of handy once in a while but I could take it or leave it. My next bike had a 77 degree seat and it made a lot more sense to me. The seat is so in the way on the steeper bikes it would be difficult for me to maneuver around it.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The cool thing about droppers is they function in both the up and down position. If you are finding that constantly using it is ruining your flow then leave it in the up position. Most of us (myself included) use our droppers far too much and it does ruin our flow on some trails.

What a dropper does is really expand the capability of your bike. A good examples many of us are familiar with would Hi-line in Sedona or Captain Ahab in moab. I have ridden both those trails on a high-post XC bike and both trails have sections where things got tense. But with a dropper those sections went from scary to fun.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

cookieMonster said:


> These guys who say “I can take it or leave it” are doing a different sport.





_CJ said:


> I often wonder if it's guys like you who aren't doing a different sport.


I like how you hatefully agree with him.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

jeremy3220 said:


> I like how you hatefully agree with him.


Nothing divides mountain bikers as much as being mountain bikers.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

It’s called VTT, you philistine


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

It's not just gnarly trails that strongly benefit from having a dropper. Any time you're going downhill it's a huge advantage to have your seat out of the way. Back in the 80s I still had a quick release on my mountain bikes, and I used them every time I reached the top of a long downhill.

Back to the "get your rear on the back tire and your chest on the seat" thing -- yes, that was necessary in XC racing in those days because you couldn't waste valuable time stopping to lower the seat. However, I maintain it was never good form, it was a crutch to compensate before droppers were invented. It is poor form because it shifts your weight way too far back and causes your front end to be inadequately weighted -- meaning your front tire/brake system will not have the traction it needs. And, you still have somewhat limited range of motion and can't fully compensate; moving your body with the terrain. It's more like you're along for the ride rather than commanding every aspect of your bike's handling.

With droppers (and before them, lowering the seat via quick release), proper form is not all that far back on steep terrain, but rather it is _low_ and just a little back. There's just way more traction and control that way. Cornering as well. I've ridden bikes with the seat up -- there is just no way one can corner and handle the bike while descending as well as one can with the free-range of motion offered by the seat out of the way.

To reiterate -- it seems to me that it would take very, very tame terrain to reach a point where I said "why bother" with a dropper. I wouldn't be interested in that kind of riding. But, ride what you like, of course.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

This thread reminds me of all the people towards the end of the Whiskey Off Road this year that I'd come up on that were NOT LOWERING THEIR droppers for the descents and I'd be essentially drafting on tech singletrack behind them with my seat down. I have no idea what they were doing, since they'd be going faster with it dropped or at least safer. I'd pull out ahead on the next climb and pass them, but this kept repeating over and over. They seemed to be "trying to go fast", but it was a little ridiculous that I'd be coasting behind them and going the same speed with far less body fuss/braking etc.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Jayem said:


> This thread reminds me of all the people towards the end of the Whiskey Off Road this year that I'd come up on that were NOT LOWERING THEIR droppers for the descents and I'd be essentially drafting on tech singletrack behind them with my seat down. I have no idea what they were doing, since they'd be going faster with it dropped or at least safer. I'd pull out ahead on the next climb and pass them, but this kept repeating over and over. They seemed to be "trying to go fast", but it was a little ridiculous that I'd be coasting behind them and going the same speed with far less body fuss/braking etc.


Everybody has different takes on when and where to use droppers.

When I did that race the only place my dropper was an advatage was tucking on the pavement downhill. I thought it would help on the first descent but even near the front of the field the train is moving pretty darn slow down that descent.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

LMN said:


> Everybody has different takes on when and where to use droppers.
> 
> When I did that race the only place my dropper was an advatage was tucking on the pavement downhill. I thought it would help on the first descent but even near the front of the field the train is moving pretty darn slow down that descent.


Yeah, I distinctly remember some guy on a rigid fixed-post bike in front of me on that downhill. I think I finally got around towards the bottom switchbacks which is like 1/4 mi from the end, so basically nothing, but I can go so much faster on that. I did pretty good on the 2nd downhill, more of the same mixing with the 30ers, but double track sections where I can pass. 

But so much of the descending was far easier with the dropper, that's what makes it so nice. I'm just out for like a Sunday ride sitting on my seat while the guy in front is death-gripping.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Yeah, I distinctly remember some guy on a rigid fixed-post bike in front of me on that downhill. I think I finally got around towards the bottom switchbacks which is like 1/4 mi from the end, so basically nothing, but I can go so much faster on that. I did pretty good on the 2nd downhill, more of the same mixing with the 30ers, but double track sections where I can pass.


I remember pre-riding that with my wife and thinking this is #!#$% terrifying I am so glad I have a dropper. And then on race day I was like, oh yeah age groupers are no where near elite women descending speed.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

LMN said:


> I remember pre-riding that with my wife and thinking this is #!#$% terrifying I am so glad I have a dropper. And then on race day I was like, oh yeah age groupers are no where near elite women descending speed.


Same thing with my 32SC fork. Pre-rode and it scared the **** out of me with the flex and lack of control, nearly ate it bad and went down on sharp rocks. Didn't notice it at all during the race.

To the rigid-guy's credit, he did go pretty fast, for a rigid bike.


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## gregkess (Oct 26, 2021)

BmanInTheD said:


> I don't think anybody here considers it a "necessity". Disc brakes aren't a "necessity", nor is suspension, shifters, etc. The point people are making here is that it has made riding most places more fun and faster while still being in control than without one. Someone mentioned they had their seat slammed down on their DH bike. Why? So you can have the saddle out of the way for better cornering and descending I would presume. Don't you want that on a trail ride as well?
> 
> Again, not a necessity, but all my mountain bikes, even my XC bike, have droppers, gears, suspension, disc brakes, etc. Because, well, controlled fast is more funnerer...


I am totally down with the dropper, but I don't see much need for the gears or suspension. I've had plenty of time with those things, but they don't make riding more fun. Riding rigid singlespeed is more fun than anything else on two wheels!


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## NJTransplant (Mar 30, 2012)

Road out here in Colorado for years without a dropper, heck I would drop my seat on the fly sometimes with the quick release. Wasn't ideal but by no means did it stop me from riding a single thing nor did having the seat in my climbing position for technical obstacles going downhill. . Did get a little puckering at times haha

However, now that I have a dropper I think it's the cats pajamas and will pretty much always have one because I hate getting off the bike if I don't have to and there's enough changing terrain out here it has improved my riding immensely


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

BmanInTheD said:


> I don't think anybody here considers it a "necessity"


really?


Smartattack said:


> I would probably prefer to trade my round wheels for squares before giving up the dropper.





ballisticexchris said:


> I now find the Dropper indispensable.





Shane5001 said:


> I wouldn't purposefully go without one again.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I probably wouldn't be into the sport of mountain biking without droppers. I learned to ride on BMX. That's what I used for trail riding in the 90s. I didn't buy a mountain bike until 2017. I've never owned a mtb without a dropper and probably never will.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

I do think modern geometry and riding styles makes a much stronger case for running a dropper. On modern bikes you are not getting back behind the saddle. You need to move your center of gravity up and down right above it, and that is not possible with the seat in the way.

Like many here, just not quite as long, I rode plenty of miles on 26 inch wheels, rim brakes, no droppers, heck even rigid bikes that were way to big for me back in the early early days. I didn't get my first dropper until about 3 years ago. 

At first I felt naked with the seat down. The thigh grab was part of the technique. It was like being at a party without a drink. What do you do with your hands? Once I got used to it, and the timing of when to drop it, it became indispensable to me. Same trails I had fun on without a dropper 10 years prior were now MORE fun with one. 

I live in a very not hilly place and I find myself using the post more for turning than for steeps. You can put your body wherever it needs to go. It is very freeing and lets you get quite aggressive on the turns. The cross bike and DJ will live without one, but any bike of mine destined for trail riding will have a dropper. YMMV, just have fun.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

I think it's also worth pointing out that the dropper allows much bigger bike to snake themselves around tight trails that used to be considered too tight for bigger wheelbased bikes. 

One guy I ride with complains constantly that his Ripmo is physically too big for a lot of our local trails, but he almost never uses his dropper, and he struggles to turn the bike. Yet, I can make it through those trails on my Stumpjumper Evo just as fast as I can on my steeper and shorter bikes. 

Flatter, tighter trails is where I use my dropper constantly and it's pure second nature. The response and easy of actuation is why I think the Reverb AXS absolutely shines on trails like this. 

On bigger trail systems where it's more of a climb and bomb back down style of riding, I don't use my dropper nearly as much. But when I use it there, it's really, really nice to have.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

FrankS29 said:


> I think it's also worth pointing out that the dropper allows much bigger bike to snake themselves around tight trails that used to be considered too tight for bigger wheelbased bikes.


Not so much a bigger bike, but the right freaking size bike. Back in the 90s and early 2000s, it was all the rage to "downsize", because frankly, the large bikes were just goofy as hell, they had crazy high top tubes, they had giant 8"+ head tubes. It was hard as hell to ride those things aggressively in terrain. And then we'd have to be cramped on our bike for the majority of our ride, using wacky 150mm stems and stuff to try and compensate. Then we'd have poor leverage over the front wheel, so good luck keeping it straight and not endoing in tech. Dropper post allowed us to ride the correct size frame and not give up maneuverability.


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

I used to have a dropper only on my full suspension bike. Then I put them on my Gravel bike and my new 29er hardtail . My only complaint is that I can ride spooky-fast down gravel roads and single tracks that I used to have to brake on in turns, washouts, and washboard. Being able to lower my center of gravity and move my body around on the bike without the seat being in the way is fantastic.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Jayem said:


> Not so much a bigger bike, but the right freaking size bike. Back in the 90s and early 2000s, it was all the rage to "downsize", because frankly, the large bikes were just goofy as hell, they had crazy high top tubes, they had giant 8"+ head tubes. It was hard as hell to ride those things aggressively in terrain. And then we'd have to be cramped on our bike for the majority of our ride, using wacky 150mm stems and stuff to try and compensate. Then we'd have poor leverage over the front wheel, so good luck keeping it straight and not endoing in tech. Dropper post allowed us to ride the correct size frame and not give up maneuverability.


Absolutely. I look at my old frames from 20+ years ago and I can't believe how small they are. 

I absolutely love the fact that the fear of an endo is now pushed FAR back into my brain while riding.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

FrankS29 said:


> I can't believe how small they are.


Who needs a large frame when you can have a 120mm stem.

*Edit*
Whoops sorry @Jayem you already made this point. Feel free to call jinx on me.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

There are places I could see not having a dropper post. A park bike, somewhere where it was winch up a fire road and then bomb down a long descent (cause at that point why not just use a QR) or if I only rode super mild blue and green trails. 

But on rocky, up and downs like where I am, no I very much want a dropper.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Where were all you people back in 2001 when I developed the first(known) modern dropper when I owned Hurricane Components? I called it the "Elevator Shaft", I did make a very small production run. I should have patented this part back then and the whole idea went out the window when I sold Hurricane back in 2002/2003.

I posted the dropper with pictures and descriptions on this forum, although I cannot seem to find them in the archives.
Pretty much most of the responses were negative at that time such as, " I'm fixing a problem that doesn't exist", "it will be too heavy", it's too complex", You're taking a simple part and making it unsimple".
I did get a few positive responses though.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

As long as it's working no way I would get rid of it. It has saved me from some major crashes. Keep your butt down. Just keep your nuts out of the rear tire (tyre for Brit's and the like).


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Where were all you people back in 2001 when I developed the first(known) modern dropper when I owned Hurricane Components? I called it the "Elevator Shaft", I did make a very small production run. I should have patented this part back then and the whole idea went out the window when I sold Hurricane back in 2002/2003.
> 
> I posted the dropper with pictures and descriptions on this forum, although I cannot seem to find them in the archives.
> Pretty much most of the responses were negative at that time such as, " I'm fixing a problem that doesn't exist", "it will be too heavy", it's too complex", You're taking a simple part and making it unsimple".
> I did get a few positive responses though.


The sport has changed. Back then, it was still all about XC, and DH was a fringe deal with dedicated bikes. Never did their paths cross, and neither of them needed a dropper. Most of the "droppers are life" crowd of today were probably still in grade school riding whatever bike their parents gave them in 2001.


.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

People fear change.


_CJ said:


> The sport has changed. Back then, it was still all about XC, and DH was a fringe deal with dedicated bikes. Never did their paths cross, and neither of them needed a dropper. Most of the "droppers are life" crowd of today were probably still in grade school riding whatever bike their parents gave them in 2001.
> 
> 
> .


and this is why I feel so young at over 50.. thanks dude


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

I couldn't imagine riding a modern geo bike without a dropper... and I've been mtbing since '91.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

_CJ said:


> The sport has changed. Back then, it was still all about XC, and DH was a fringe deal with dedicated bikes. Never did their paths cross, and neither of them needed a dropper. Most of the "droppers are life" crowd of today were probably still in grade school riding whatever bike their parents gave them in 2001.
> 
> 
> .


It’s weird when people flex over being old and out of touch, but whatever. I got my first MTB in 1987 and was out of grad school by 2001. 

But on that theme, the upcoming generation of riders who were able to start out on kid-sized mountain bikes are absolutely blowing us away. It’s commonplace now to see 10-year old kids tail whipping good-sized jumps, and most of them have their technique dialed because they’ve (halfway) grown up doing it.


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## gasmanxj (Sep 29, 2014)

Jayem said:


> Not so much a bigger bike, but the right freaking size bike. Back in the 90s and early 2000s, it was all the rage to "downsize", because frankly, the large bikes were just goofy as hell, they had crazy high top tubes, they had giant 8"+ head tubes. It was hard as hell to ride those things aggressively in terrain. And then we'd have to be cramped on our bike for the majority of our ride, using wacky 150mm stems and stuff to try and compensate. Then we'd have poor leverage over the front wheel, so good luck keeping it straight and not endoing in tech. Dropper post allowed us to ride the correct size frame and not give up maneuverability.


Agreed and illustrated very well in this video I saw pop up, Kyle looks like an uncomfortable giant on the Banshee!


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## james-42 (Jan 19, 2012)

Well I can't run a dropper post and a suspension seatpost so....


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

james-42 said:


> Well I can't run a dropper post and a suspension seatpost so....











COAST SUSPENSION DROPPER POST


Suspension + Drop. The Coast Post combines the benefits of a dropper with the joint saving squish of suspension. This witchcraft all happens via a dual chamber hydraulic cartridge featuring 40mm of tunable air suspension, designed to help riders on all types of bikes - from packed up trekkers...




www.pnwcomponents.com


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

After running my MTB seat posts bolted at a fixed height starting in 1987 I never thought I'd be defending dropper use, but I have become quite fond of my droppers.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

_CJ said:


> The sport has changed. Back then, it was still all about XC, and DH was a fringe deal with dedicated bikes. Never did their paths cross, and neither of them needed a dropper. Most of the "droppers are life" crowd of today were probably still in grade school riding whatever bike their parents gave them in 2001.
> 
> 
> .


Of course it did. I came from the early days of the sport and was an early adopter of the Hite-Rite. I did quit using the HR in the early 90's though. The HR was the inspiration for me coming up with the dropper idea much later. I was using a HR in the late 90's because the idea of dropping the saddle was on my mind without having to stop, undue the QR, make sure the saddle was straight and then stopping again to raise it making sure I was at the proper height. I knew there had to be a better way......the rest is history, although it does bother me that Gravity Dropper gets the credit for the invention of the dropper.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

the rest is history, although it does bother me that Gravity Dropper gets the credit for the invention of the dropper................

I fell the same way about Stan...He got the Yellow Spoke Tape from me, and never gave me any credit!!


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

MattiThundrrr said:


> really?


I wouldn’t go without one either but it’s not “necessary” to ride trails. You totally missed my point, but nice try. If you absolutely can’t ride without one, you should maybe visit a coach or perhaps just give up and find another sport.


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## jatank (Nov 4, 2021)

jspell said:


> When I am rolling into a tight switchback down hill I am sitting on the saddle and then drop the post and it just seems to throw me off and I can't make the corner. I guess it is the transition from the dropped low to standing the screws me up. Also, when going some what fast on the trail and come to a corner and try to drop the seat for cornering I have the same issue.


I was the same, and I did not think a dropper mattered. But then I started jumping and taking gnarly descends. When doing XC honestly no dropper is needed. But the gnarlier the trails and steeper the more you realize how much you need it. Also I was getting bucked up and took a few spills. Dropper is awsome but takes a while to get used to in my opinion.


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## Spokey-Doke (Apr 4, 2005)

Thank god you all have educated me to the fact that I have not been a “real mountain biker” or ridden “real trails” for the last 38 years because I don’t use a freaking dropper. Time to retire I guess.


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

Fun thread, indeed. FWIW, my perspective as an XC racer (longer course and endurance) and a trail rider who has a definite advantage on the down & more gnarly terrain: I held off on a dropper for quite a while. When I did start using one, it took me a good couple of years to truly master it for XC (mostly learning not to lose any time when changing). Now that I have it totally dialed, I can't imagine riding without it: I find it faster and worth the weight penalty when racing and definitely more furn when free riding. Everyone focuses on using the seat drop for descents, drops etc. and that 's all good, but there are two other benefits: 1) getting low enables you to rail flow trails faster; and 2) you can use the dropper to gain an extra 20mm height to be more efficient on long smooth-ish climbs. So i have my post set at 20mm higher than I would set a fixed post and then ride with it 20mm down most of the time, topping it out only for those long climbs and dropping it for fast or gnarly descents.
My biggest issue is that dropper posts are by far the least reliable and most service intense piece of kit on my bikes; they always seem to be not quite working right; and they're wickedly expensive for what they are.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jatank said:


> When doing XC honestly no dropper is needed.


I have won XC races. With a dropper. One of my best moves was on a mid-summer race where we were doing loops around a trail system. Said loops have some short 50 foot or less marked DH "alt lines" that are harder. I asked before the race if these were kosher and the director said yes. I was maybe 3rd or 4th in the line when we got there, the first one was hard to pick up on at race pace, but I scoped the course before and knew the turn off. Marked...but easy to miss at race pace. I hit the line, dropped the post, zipped down, and exited right in front of the race leader on what continued as a DH to the bottom of that section. I heard the "WTF!?" from him as I popped out at full speed, lol. I kept the lead and broke them on the 2nd or 3rd lap climb, where I got my lead for the win. Dropper in the DHs was definitely part of it. I was trying to get a few feet on them on every single DH I could, not to mention climbs.

Needed? I guess not. But then again, I don't need disc brakes, 2.25 tires, 29er wheels, suspension, 11 speeds, etc...


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## TandemBear (Aug 18, 2013)

Loving the dropper now that I'm availing myself to one since May '21.
Many, many years without. Many, many years with a HiteRite, which was such a pain I never used it as intended. The wife's bike still has her HiteRite on it; it's now the commuter bike, so it's there for the theft protection and posterity!

No one NEEDS a dropper to ride off road. But they sure are nice!
No one NEEDS tubeless tires, 1X, 2X or gears at all, or full suspension, or even front suspension, or... 

You get the picture. But isn't it nice?

Today's bikes really make the sport approachable and "easy" for beginners (by comparison to the old bikes). But at the time, I thought my '84 mountain bike made "riding trails totally approachable and 'easy' compared to what was available" then. So it's all a matter of perspective.

In 10 years, I'll probably be saying the exact same thing about e-bikes off road. Yes, I already understand the benefits and advantages of electric mountain bikes. But I'm not there yet; let's hope it's 20 years (a 75 yo friend still hammers sans electricity)! Still being amazed by the 29" full suspension, as I was coming off a 23 year old 26" hard tail. Worlds of difference!

Long live bikes!


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

No offense to anyone but I mastered the dropper in one day in 2017. My first mtb was given to me in 1992. I dont understand how it takes "years" to master. And all my droppers have been problem and maintenance free. im hard core though like cj said.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TandemBear said:


> In 10 years, I'll probably be saying the exact same thing about e-bikes off road. Yes, I already understand the benefits and advantages of electric mountain bikes. But I'm not there yet; let's hope it's 20 years (a 75 yo friend still hammers sans electricity)! Still being amazed by the 29" full suspension, as I was coming off a 23 year old 26" hard tail. Worlds of difference!
> 
> Long live bikes!


I think at some point we'll get a hybrid design that can store a decent amount of energy from a charge or brake-regeneration that allows a longer rider without a crazy weight penalty or is simply an "assist" till charge runs out. That will probably be a tipping point.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

And just like that it became an e bike thread. Countdown to the lock...


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

This thread is NOT about ebikes! This thread is about people who like droppers, and people who don't run them and feel attacked when someone else says they like them, likely while sipping a malt at a 50s diner.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Of course it did. I came from the early days of the sport and was an early adopter of the Hite-Rite. I did quit using the HR in the early 90's though. The HR was the inspiration for me coming up with the dropper idea much later. I was using a HR in the late 90's because the idea of dropping the saddle was on my mind without having to stop, undue the QR, make sure the saddle was straight and then stopping again to raise it making sure I was at the proper height. I knew there had to be a better way......the rest is history, although it does bother me that Gravity Dropper gets the credit for the invention of the dropper.


Once again, Power Post predated Gravity Dropper by many years.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

rideit said:


> Once again, Power Post predated Gravity Dropper by many years.


Power post was NOT a dropper seatpost. It kinda moved the saddle out of the way, but was weird. The Hite Rite was definitely the precursor of the modern dropper.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Power post was NOT a dropper seatpost. It kinda moved the saddle out of the way, but was weird. The Hite Rite was definitely the precursor of the modern dropper.


Especially in conjunction with the IRD (Interloc Racing Design) seat QR remote.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Yeah, I had a hite rite in ‘87 too.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

You boys and your new fangled toys will never be this hard....


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

_CJ said:


> You boys and your new fangled toys will never be this hard....
> 
> View attachment 2001942


Correction - I will never be that hard again


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)




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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

C Smasher said:


> Correction - I will never be that hard again


One of my proudest moments came way back in the day, while still on toe-clip pedals. Went over a log, then OTB, and somehow managed to get my feet out of the straps and run out of the crash before I died. While a fond memory, it is something I care not to repeat.


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

fly4130 said:


> One of my proudest moments came way back in the day, while still on toe-clip pedals. Went over a log, then OTB, and somehow managed to get my feet out of the straps and run out of the crash before I died. While a fond memory, it is something I care not to repeat.


I remember those times!


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

dysfunction said:


>


FMJ!! what a heck of a movie!!


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

dysfunction said:


>


I watched that last night.

I only have a dropper on one bike and never really use it except in enduro races, and it's a very minimal drop. I pulled them off the other bikes. I can't imagine riding with a massive drop slammed all the way down since I use the insides of my thighs to control the bike when decending.


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## mtbdudex (Jan 13, 2020)

Wait .. so with a dropper post, I don’t need to put a tape mark on my bikes that I occasionally share with my 2 sons, who are taller than dad?



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

milehi said:


> I use the insides of my thighs to control the bike when decending.



I think this is an example of the terrible technique problems that droppers can help avoid.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

mtbdudex said:


> Wait .. so with a dropper post, I don’t need to put a tape mark on my bikes that I occasionally share with my 2 sons, who are taller than dad?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Before droppers I put a punch mark on my post for quick reference for raising back up after a QR manual drop.


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## sixtyfour (Jun 3, 2014)

milehi said:


> I can't imagine riding with a massive drop slammed all the way down since I use the insides of my thighs to control the bike when decending.


Doesn't riding this way adversely affect proper body position when descending? It's obviously pretty bad for bike-body separation.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

sixtyfour said:


> Doesn't riding this way adversely affect proper body position when descending? It's obviously pretty bad for bike-body separation.


Yes. Having a high post compromises body position because you're having to adapt your technique solely because your saddle is in the way.


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## paul c (Nov 22, 2009)

I can’t imagine riding now without a dropper. Before I’d never really do many drops or other things because I didn’t use a qr seat clamp, it would get caught on my shorts so I just would use a bolt on one and leave the seat I’m my pedaling position. Now with a dropper I can get it out of my way, the bike just feels so much better without the seat in my caboose. Can move the bike around so much more. Now, why people think they need a dropper with a ton of drop is beyond me


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

FrankS29 said:


> You can pry my droppers from my cold dead hands.
> 
> My gravel bike is the only bike I don’t feel a need for one, but if I rode gnarlier gravel, I would probably put one on that bike as well.
> 
> Even my wife, who doesn’t mountain bike, pouts when she has to ride a bike without one.


Dropper post all the things. Next gravel bike will have one for sure.



geoffpw said:


> My biggest issue is that dropper posts are by far the least reliable and most service intense piece of kit on my bikes; they always seem to be not quite working right; and they're wickedly expensive for what they are.


PNW components loam dropper has been the most reliable for me. I have tried a few others (oneup and Bikeyoke). But, nothing matches the loam for "just" working all the time. I currently have three of them. With many muddy XC racers.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

cassieno said:


> PNW components loam dropper has been the most reliable for me. I have tried a few others (oneup and Bikeyoke). But, nothing matches the loam for "just" working all the time.


I have also had great luck with PNW droppers. The OneUp is alright, but I feel like they always feel like they need to be serviced. Its only benefit is that it allows more drop than other droppers on the market. 

For flat out no fuss and just works and works and works, nothing has come close to my old Reverb AXS dropper. That thing was an absolute tank of a dropper for me. 

I really hope they release a V2 AXS dropper than has a significantly reduced stack height and insert requirements and longer drop options.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

PhillipJ said:


> I think this is an example of the terrible technique problems that droppers can help avoid.


Bahhh...that's the way we all did it back in the day. It was an excellent technique on the techie XC race courses.


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## Smartattack (8 mo ago)

How is your thighs being in contact with the frame synonymous with body weight being where it should be? Is that to say that you won't go over the bars because your thighs are pinching the tubes and therefore your bike goes OTB along with your body?


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Crankout said:


> Bahhh...that's the way we all did it back in the day. It was an excellent technique on the techie XC race courses.


because we didn't have droppers


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## NC_Foothills_Rider (11 mo ago)

FrankS29 said:


> Absolutely. I look at my old frames from 20+ years ago and I can't believe how small they are.
> 
> I absolutely love the fact that the fear of an endo is now pushed FAR back into my brain while riding.


If you rode one after getting used to a newer 29 it would feel like a kid's bike. Even one that fit you.

BTDt.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

sixtyfour said:


> Doesn't riding this way adversely affect proper body position when descending? It's obviously pretty bad for bike-body separation.


I'm out of the saddle when decending using the saddle to control side to side movement. Every fast DH racer does this. I think some may be confused thinking I'm clamping the saddle with my legs.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

milehi said:


> I'm out of the saddle when decending using the saddle to control side to side movement. Every fast DH racer does this. I think some may be confused thinking I'm clamping the saddle with my legs.


I tried a dropper and came away with the same feelings as milehi. The seat touching your thigh was the norm and dare I say "correct" position for us old timers way back when before there were droppers. It gives you feedback to what the bike was doing. After riding forever like this, it feels very odd with the seat down. For me, I would have to relearn how to descend and have another thing to fail and maintain.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Rod said:


> I tried a dropper and came away with the same feelings as milehi. The seat touching your thigh was the norm and dare I say "correct" position for us old timers way back when before there were droppers. It gives you feedback to what the bike was going. After riding forever like this, it feels very odd with the seat down. For me, I would have to relearn how to descend and have another thing to fail or maintain that's expensive.


Yes, you would. It's not like many of us didn't ride that way. It just changed how we ride. In the end, totally worth while for me to learn to not rely on the saddle to move the bike around, mostly because there was far less need when the bike can just move around below.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

dysfunction said:


> Yes, you would. It's not like many of us didn't ride that way. It just changed how we ride. In the end, totally worth while for me to learn to not rely on the saddle to move the bike around, mostly because there was far less need when the bike can just move around below.


I can definitely see the benefits of having a dropper. I'd love for the hardtail to feel like a bmx bike more at times. For me, I'm just stuck on the maintenance aspect. I like things as simple as possible.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Rod said:


> I can definitely see the benefits of having a dropper. I'd love for the hardtail to feel like a bmx bike more at times. For me, I'm just stuck on the maintenance aspect. I like things as simple as possible.


This was one of my main concerns after 30+ years of fixed seatposts, but so far I have not had to do a single thing to any of my droppers in the 18 months I've been riding them. Expense, weight, reliability, and pride were my reasons for not moving to a dropper, but I was able to find a cheap used KS LEVi on the local craigslist for $50 and that allowed me to overcome the expense mental block. That price of entry would also allow me to feel OK about throwing it away if it was a maintenance nightmare. Once I installed it and rode with it for a month or so, I was hooked. So far it has needed nothing, cost me little, added less weight to my bike than last night's dessert, and has improved my speed and safety. That said, I am still cheap and won't be putting AXS droppers on my bikes anytime soon.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

milehi said:


> I'm out of the saddle when decending using the saddle to control side to side movement. Every fast DH racer does this.


Every fast DH rider has a very short seatpost already, just like what you get when you drop your dropper.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Rod said:


> I can definitely see the benefits of having a dropper. I'd love for the hardtail to feel like a bmx bike more at times. For me, I'm just stuck on the maintenance aspect. I like things as simple as possible.


I'll be honest in the 2 and a bit years of riding, I have only had one problem with my dropper posts. The cheap lever with the BrandX one I have broke. Otherwise nothing.


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## bfdnelson (4 mo ago)

C Smasher said:


> No offense to anyone but I mastered the dropper in one day in 2017. My first mtb was given to me in 1992. I dont understand how it takes "years" to master. And all my droppers have been problem and maintenance free. im hard core though like cj said.


I'm going on a limb, but I think the other posters are referring to the time it takes to "master efficient use of a dropper in race settings". To which, I would agree. You're right in that the technology is simple. Almost nothing to master there. But it can take a significant amount of time and practice to learn when and when not to use it, how to drop and raise it efficiently, all while not interrupting pedal stroke, technique, or flow. 

Examples of this may be "is this descent big enough or gnarly enough to make it worthwhile" or "can I drop the seat right before the descent, or is there a techy section before it that makes that difficult/dangerous, and therefore I should drop it sooner/later"?

I know that's a very narrow scope of view. But I can see where some of those comments might be coming from as I'm still learning and tuning my use of dropper in races.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

milehi said:


> I'm out of the saddle when decending using the saddle to control side to side movement. Every fast DH racer does this. I think some may be confused thinking I'm clamping the saddle with my legs.


Watch a downhill racer. You can constantly see space between their thighs and the saddle. This is an older video where DH racers had "longer" seatpost. 






PhillipJ said:


> Every fast DH rider has a very short seatpost already, just like what you get when you drop your dropper.


I think it's also hard to compare DH seat post higher (visually) with a trailbike. Like that video I posted of Aaron Gwin his seatpost looks "long".


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

If jet pilots can master complex maneuvers going upside down straight up, and in a barrel roll, we all can do this.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Hey, I thought when front derailleurs went away it meant that I would never have to use my left thumb again. Pretty sure I forgot how to move it.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

cassieno said:


> Watch a downhill racer. You can constantly see space between their thighs and the saddle. This is an older video where DH racers had "longer" seatpost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was such a swashbuckling run. This pic of Tomac illustrates him using his inside thigh to keep the bike on track. I would study his DH technique when I was younger, pouring over photos. And yeah, I still like some length on my post while decending. Not much but not slammed. Too many years racing hundreds of super d races before droppers where you set your post for both DH and lung busting climbs racing the clock.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Bikes that Tomac rode are a lot different than today's also. Like what were seat angles than? 70 degrees? Now with our 75+ SA where a saddle naturally sits is much different.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

milehi said:


> That was such a swashbuckling run. This pic of Tomac illustrates him using his inside thigh to keep the bike on track. I would study his DH technique when I was younger, pouring over photos. And yeah, I still like some length on my post while decending. Not much but not slammed. Too many years racing hundreds of super d races before droppers where you set your post for both DH and lung busting climbs racing the clock.


Back in the 80’s they did it without helmets on bikes with no brakes that were stick welded together in a shed in West Marin. Times and technology change, if you don’t want to the good news is there is a thriving vintage MTB community. This thread confuses me. 


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

cassieno said:


> Bikes that Romac rode are a lot different than today's also. Like what were seat angles than? 70 degrees? Now with our 75+ SA where a saddle naturally sits is much different.


SA were 73 back then but I was having custom frames with 74+ several years before the Gravity Dropper showed up. Long TTs, slack HAs and low BBs too. I wasn't the only one either. It was cool to walk the parking lots at the races looking at regular riders building frames the manufactures weren't. It was years before the industry caught up.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Little_twin said:


> Back in the 80’s they did it without helmets on bikes with no brakes that were stick welded together in a shed in West Marin. Times and technology change, if you don’t want to the good news is there is a thriving vintage MTB community. This thread confuses me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm on every vintage FB group. I started racing DH way before suspension and brakes that worked. I was a teen ager back in the late 80s and could easily bounce back from a crash. Not so much 36 years later.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

milehi said:


> I'm on every vintage FB group. I started racing DH way before suspension and brakes that worked. I was a teen ager back in the late 80s and could easily bounce back from a crash. Not so much 36 years later.


And you feel safer riding a vintage mountain bike over a modern bike?


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Little_twin said:


> And you feel safer riding a vintage mountain bike over a modern bike?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't own a vintage bike but I have a full rigid steel single speed I had built with older geo numbers. 68/73 with a 24 TT that I'll take down anything. It has V brakes too. I only race CC with it. There's a race I do where there's a vintage class. One year one of the fastest times of the day outside the pro class in the DH was on a Schwinn cruiser. Probably on period correct tires too. I've never seen as many frame failures as I have in the past ten years BTW.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

milehi said:


> I don't own a vintage bike but I have a full rigid steel single speed I had built with older geo numbers. 68/73 with a 24 TT that I'll take down anything. It has V brakes too. I only race CC with it. There's a race I do where there's a vintage class. One year one of the fastest times of the day outside the pro class in the DH was on a Schwinn cruiser. Probably on period correct tires too. I've never seen as many frame failures as I have in the past ten years BTW.


Progress comes with a price. I ride race bikes and don’t expect them to be anything but. 


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Funny thread. Also I’m amazed it’s gone 10 pages and still in the GD forum. Hope it stays here but…









Dropper Posts







www.mtbr.com


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## jspell (Jul 11, 2006)

The reason that it was posted the general discussion is that I was going to remove the dropper post and wanted like thinking folks to help justify my feelings. If it was posted in the dropper post section almost everyone there uses their post! But after reading all 197 posts I have decided to give it more time and really try to use it as much as possible. Plus it has been very entertaining!


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## phorest (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm of the opinion that one doesn't get the full value of modern geometry bikes without using a dropper. They are supposed to be ridden with a different technique than old-school bikes – that technique includes using a seat dropper so you can lean the bike way over while keeping your body above the bike.

Here's Aaron Gwin teaching us cornering:


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I have tried and tried to like and use a dropper post. I just don't like them. Yeah, I guess they're good for long downhills but being low in the saddle and up on the pedals...and then sitting on the saddle...not to mention the reflexes required to use one effectively on short, rapidly changing angles...has utterly defeated me. I think a lot of this is that I'm lazy and don't want to think about another control. My initial foray into 1x drivetrains lo' those many moons ago was primarily for this reason. It's just too complicated. I've had three bikes with droppers and, after trying to like them, took them off, sold them on eBay, and replaced then with light, simple carbon seat posts. And I have a 2022 Specialized Enduro. I go on some very difficult terrain on it. 

Now they want me to use droppers on my gravel bike? Why?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Droppers on gravel is win. So much fun. Not needed. But still so much fun.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

cassieno said:


> Droppers on gravel is win. So much fun. Not needed. But still so much fun.


Not to mention that with varying degrees of flat and incline it’s nice to be able to adjust seat height. 


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

cassieno said:


> Droppers on gravel is win. So much fun. Not needed. But still so much fun.


I have though about getting a Chamois Hagar just to have the gearing and dropper, but then I remember I am in Illinois and take the gravel bike out on mainly old canal towpaths. That doesn't stop the want. Just parallel thoughts.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

Ailuropoda said:


> I think a lot of this is that I'm lazy and don't want to think about another control.


How often do you ride and how much experience do you have in the saddle? It's a simple button that takes almost no thought or motor skills. Unlike the act of balancing and keeping upright in a difficult section at low speed or stopped and track standing.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

sgltrak said:


> This was one of my main concerns after 30+ years of fixed seatposts, but so far I have not had to do a single thing to any of my droppers in the 18 months I've been riding them. Expense, weight, reliability, and pride were my reasons for not moving to a dropper, but I was able to find a cheap used KS LEVi on the local craigslist for $50 and that allowed me to overcome the expense mental block. That price of entry would also allow me to feel OK about throwing it away if it was a maintenance nightmare. Once I installed it and rode with it for a month or so, I was hooked. So far it has needed nothing, cost me little, added less weight to my bike than last night's dessert, and has improved my speed and safety. That said, I am still cheap and won't be putting AXS droppers on my bikes anytime soon.


Those are all my reasons for not moving to a dropper too. I don't want to pay 300 bucks for a seatpost that may fail on me and there are few companies that even make a 27.2. Then I couldn't move the dropper to a new frame. I have 300 feet of vertical drop here and the trails haven't changed very much in the 20 years I've ridden them. If I could find one for the right place I'd gladly dip my toes into the pool.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

93EXCivic said:


> I'll be honest in the 2 and a bit years of riding, I have only had one problem with my dropper posts. The cheap lever with the BrandX one I have broke. Otherwise nothing.


That's great to hear. I still remember when they first released and the reliability nightmares. I've been watching the fox dropper from a distance, but the last time I checked they don't make it to fit my bike. When I get another full suspension it'll probably have a dropper. If not, that'll be the time for me to pick one up.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Rod said:


> Those are all my reasons for not moving to a dropper too. I don't want to pay 300 bucks for a seatpost that may fail on me and there are few companies that even make a 27.2. Then I couldn't move the dropper to a new frame. I have 300 feet of vertical drop here and the trails haven't changed very much in the 20 years I've ridden them. If I could find one for the right place I'd gladly dip my toes into the pool.


Three of my bikes and my wife's bike all have 27.2 seat posts and I have found used posts for a couple of those bikes for reasonable prices (around $100-150) on FB marketplace and craigslist. I received a new ($169) Trans-X 27.2 external cable post for Christmas a couple of years ago. I figured in each case that it would be possible to resell with very little money lost if i didn't like using them. I found that having low risk options to test a dropper on my bikes encouraged me to try it on a longer term basis than an hour or two on a demo bike like I had previously done.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Rod said:


> I don't want to pay 300 bucks for a seatpost that may fail on me and there are few companies that even make a 27.2.


PNW makes a few models in that size, and I have had great luck with them for reliability and service when needed. That $300 price is about right though when you factor in the lever, cables/housing, and shipping. I actually cracked a Rainier post, likely due to my stupidity in clamping, and was able to warranty it for a scratch and dent Loam at no cost. I have been running the Loam for two seasons now on the fat bike, so summer AND winter rides, and have had zero issues. The Loam lever is the best one I have used as well. 

I am just outside of Chicago and would kill for 300 feet of vert at my local. I still use my dropper constantly during rides. It is not just for steeps. It makes cornering on any decline so much better and I will drop it for any sort of drop/jump/shenaniganery as well. I have been riding for a good long time and only been on a dropper for 3 years now and think they are amazing. It did take me a good 4-5 rides to get used to the process of dropping the post as well as the naked feeling of no saddle touching my things when I turned. Once I got past that there was no looking back.


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## mtbdudex (Jan 13, 2020)

Well reading this thread .. I feel like I’m missing “out” on the “real” MTB experience.. and yes I do ride trails with rocky / rooty descents .. 

Maybe this old dog will borrow a friends bike to tryout the dropper post mindset… 


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

sgltrak said:


> Three of my bikes and my wife's bike all have 27.2 seat posts and I have found used posts for a couple of those bikes for reasonable prices (around $100-150) on FB marketplace and craigslist. I received a new ($169) Trans-X 27.2 external cable post for Christmas a couple of years ago. I figured in each case that it would be possible to resell with very little money lost if i didn't like using them. I found that having low risk options to test a dropper on my bikes encouraged me to try it on a longer term basis than an hour or two on a demo bike like I had previously done.


I checked FB marketplace after making that last post and I don't see anything locally. I'd need to make the drive to North Carolina. I'll have to start keeping an eye out. Like you said, if I can find one used then I could resell it for very little money lost when I switch frames.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

fly4130 said:


> PNW makes a few models in that size, and I have had great luck with them for reliability and service when needed. That $300 price is about right though when you factor in the lever, cables/housing, and shipping. I actually cracked a Rainier post, likely due to my stupidity in clamping, and was able to warranty it for a scratch and dent Loam at no cost. I have been running the Loam for two seasons now on the fat bike, so summer AND winter rides, and have had zero issues. The Loam lever is the best one I have used as well.
> 
> I am just outside of Chicago and would kill for 300 feet of vert at my local. I still use my dropper constantly during rides. It is not just for steeps. It makes cornering on any decline so much better and I will drop it for any sort of drop/jump/shenaniganery as well. I have been riding for a good long time and only been on a dropper for 3 years now and think they are amazing. It did take me a good 4-5 rides to get used to the process of dropping the post as well as the naked feeling of no saddle touching my things when I turned. Once I got past that there was no looking back.


This is the only company that made a 27.2 at the time when I curious about picking one up. I heard they had good reliability and it's good to hear you've had the same experience, especially in the winter and in foul conditions. That's when I really enjoy riding. I'm in the Appalachian foothills so we have a lot of short and steep hills and it's mostly old hiking trails. Thanks for your post. I'll keep a closer eye out for a dropper.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

ballisticexchris said:


> How often do you ride and how much experience do you have in the saddle? It's a simple button that takes almost no thought or motor skills. Unlike the act of balancing and keeping upright in a difficult section at low speed or stopped and track standing.


I ride a lot. I have been mountain biking since 1992 with a little break during medical school and residency and have been on everything from my original Bridgestone MB4 to my current Specialized Enduro. It's not the lever, which is easy to use and intuitive, it's reacting quickly enough. By the time I decide to use it going into our little washes and draws here in Arizona my usual response is "why bother?" I'll just want the seat up to climb out...standing on the pedals to climb on the Enduro is a no-go...unless I add more levers to lock out to adjust the fork and shock.

And on really steep, long descents there are two situations: One, it's a more-or-less smooth trail so dropping the seat is not necessary...or two, the terrain is so gnarly that it's irrelevant. I'm not a hero and I'm going to walk the bike over big boulders and three-foot drops. There are no soft places to fall in Arizona. And I repeat, the Enduro is so slack that I almost never feel like I'm going to endo. 

Not busting on anybody using a dropper post.

I also want to state that I have too much bike. There. That'll keep this thread going for another week.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

dysfunction said:


> because we didn't have droppers


Exactly. The seatpost dropper guys would break out their multitools at the top of the climbs.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Crankout said:


> Exactly. The seatpost dropper guys would break out their multitools at the top of the climbs.


.. or.. set the saddle too low intentionally and always deal with a bad position. My knees are still pissed at me, I think.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

dysfunction said:


> .. or.. set the saddle too low intentionally and always deal with a bad position. My knees are still pissed at me, I think.


Maybe in my 20's or 30's but hell no now.


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## mtbdudex (Jan 13, 2020)

Ailuropoda said:


> I ride a lot. I have been mountain biking since 1992 with a little break during medical school and residency and have been on everything from my original Bridgestone MB4 to my current Specialized Enduro. It's not the lever, which is easy to use and intuitive, it's reacting quickly enough. By the time I decide to use it going into our little washes and draws here in Arizona my usual response is "why bother?" I'll just want the seat up to climb out...standing on the pedals to climb on the Enduro is a no-go...unless I add more levers to lock out to adjust the fork and shock.
> 
> And on really steep, long descents there are two situations: One, it's a more-or-less smooth trail so dropping the seat is not necessary...or two, the terrain is so gnarly that it's irrelevant. I'm not a hero and I'm going to walk the bike over big boulders and three-foot drops. There are no soft places to fall in Arizona. And I repeat, the Enduro is so slack that I almost never feel like I'm going to endo.
> 
> ...


This:
“I'm not a hero and I'm going to walk the bike over big boulders and three-foot drops.”

While I “bomb” at speed over rocks and roots, etc. I do carve turns, lean the bike, etc.
I don’t do true freestyle big ramps, drops , etc.

I’m not the target customer for these dropper posts … 

Which leads to, who are the target customers for dropper posts?
Truly, who benefits?




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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

dysfunction said:


> .. or.. set the saddle too low intentionally and always deal with a bad position. My knees are still pissed at me, I think.


That was my riding before droppers. Set the saddle at a compromise, so neither efficient or that comfortable on the descents. But yeah I don't miss the days of putting the saddle up and down manually. Interesting corners, saddle down, come out of it, saddle is going back up. 

I've broken derailleur cables a few times (stupid Saint design) and had a dropper crap out on me (Reverb rebuild three) and I'd much rather have a functioning dropper post than gears.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

mtbdudex said:


> This:
> “I'm not a hero and I'm going to walk the bike over big boulders and three-foot drops.”
> 
> While I “bomb” at speed over rocks and roots, etc. I do carve turns, lean the bike, etc.
> ...


Where I live and ride everyone benefits from droppers. 


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Can't ditch what I never picked up, and considering the folks that I ride with that use them, it hasn't been a detriment for me. Based on that, I have no intention of installing one.


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## sixtyfour (Jun 3, 2014)

Ailuropoda said:


> ...or two, the terrain is so gnarly that it's irrelevant.


I would think that it would be the most relevant in this case. Or do you mean it's irrelevant to you since you wouldn't attempt the super sketchy things?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Just be you and ride what feels comfortable for “you”.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Just be you and ride what feels comfortable for “you”.


Absolutely, but it's fun to discuss things at times. Or we wouldn't bother to be here in the first place.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

dysfunction said:


> Absolutely, but it's fun to discuss things at times. Or we wouldn't bother to be here in the first place.


That's exactly what I wrote.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

mtbdudex said:


> This:
> “I'm not a hero and I'm going to walk the bike over big boulders and three-foot drops.”
> 
> While I “bomb” at speed over rocks and roots, etc. I do carve turns, lean the bike, etc.
> ...



Here's my situation: I do a lot of Tour Divide style dirt and gravel now but I also get on the trail bike often just to mix things up. We have some nice trails here in Arizona. I'm like you, I carve a little, lean the bike, and I think I have some good technique...but I'm not actually racing anybody so if I'm a little inefficient without a dropper post it's not important. It just adds complexity. I mean, the Enduro is a complex bike that requires some fork, shock, and other tuning but once it's dialed in you can forget about it. This is why I like SRAM Eagle, DUB, and other things that simplify my cycling life. I also don't want to die or get seriously injured for the sport so I'm not doing any North Shore double diamond stuff. Plus I don't want to break the bike. I got it (other than the fact that it's pretty fucking awesome) precisely because it's too much bike for me...in other words for the large safety margin in what the bike can take versus what I dish out. 

Again, not busting on dropper posts. I'm definitely an average rider. My level of experience is somewhere between Picard and a soft-as-butter fifty-something smoker on an eBike because his doctor told him to get some exercise.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I went to a bike park and only used my dropper lever once. Droppers aren't needed!


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Yea, if all I rode was park I'd have a DH bike.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Ailuropoda said:


> I mean, the Enduro is a complex bike that requires some fork, shock, and other tuning but once it's dialed in you can forget about it. This is why I like SRAM Eagle, DUB, and other things that simplify my cycling life.


How on earth did you get that bike _without_ a dropper? Or did you take it off?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Its funny the people saying they ride safe and dont do jumps and drops, so no dropper. Like, i guess you dont want the safety that lowering your seat/COM brings. Its hugely safer and you dont have to go faster, be a racer or do “jumps and drops”. Like saying i drive slow so i dont need seat belts.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

I just don't like the added complexity of yet another thing to do before I drive and then I also have to take that seatbelt off before I can get out of the car.


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## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

PhillipJ said:


> I just don't like the added complexity of yet another thing to do before I drive and then I also have to take that seatbelt off before I can get out of the car.


While seatbelts analogies are funny, they’re missing the factual punch of what would be a seatbelt that when engaged gives the car a whole new suspension setting that lets even a poorly experienced driver corner as if in a sports car when engaged but allows 20% more fuel efficiency when just loping down the straights. 

Yeah - one must have or develop the ability to see the corner coming and push a button but I guess theoretically I can understand how that can seem like a heavy lift. 

Maybe the new flight attendant will see the “corners” for us and set the post as it does the damping.


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## Riccochet (4 mo ago)

It's not a deal breaker for me either way. I have/had one for years and rarely use it. Most of the stuff I ride doesn't have downhill sections long enough or with enough features where I'd be like "ohhh, that would be so much better with a dropper".


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

jspell said:


> Anyone else go back to a rigid post?


I ditched my BikeYoke dropper and went back to rigid on my Canfield EPO.

Nothing wrong with the BikeYoke...it is a dead-reliable dropper. The problem I had was the (lack of) set-back to get the proper seat position for pedaling, particularly since I use either a 120mm fork or rigid fork which steepens the seat-tube angle a bit too much for seat-adjustment at the post to overcome.

My pedaling biomechanics are first priority...that's what I'm doing most of the time (and for long periods of time) on the bike.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DGUSMC said:


> While seatbelts analogies are funny, they’re missing the factual punch of what would be a seatbelt that when engaged gives the car a whole new suspension setting that lets even a poorly experienced driver corner as if in a sports car when engaged but allows 20% more fuel efficiency when just loping down the straights.
> 
> Yeah - one must have or develop the ability to see the corner coming and push a button but I guess theoretically I can understand how that can seem like a heavy lift.
> 
> Maybe the new flight attendant will see the “corners” for us and set the post as it does the damping.


If you’ve raced a car, the seat belt quickly becomes a limiting factor. You simply can’t hold onto the wheel under all those Gs without.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Mudguard said:


> How on earth did you get that bike _without_ a dropper? Or did you take it off?


i built it myself from a frame. And I originally bought a dropper and installed it, grimly tried to enjoy it, then sold it and replaced it with a carbon seat post, simplifying my life and saving a pound of weight. For me, a dropper post is like Indian food. I’ve tried to like it. I’ve been a good sport. There’s just something about it I don’t like and I’m done.


----------



## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

I don't believe you can corner properly w/o use of a dropper.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

LaXCarp said:


> I don't believe you can corner properly w/o use of a dropper.


Oh no!!! 

Would the trailside judges deduct points from my score?


----------



## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> I ditched my BikeYoke dropper and went back to rigid on my Canfield EPO.
> 
> Nothing wrong with the BikeYoke...it is a dead-reliable dropper. The problem I had was the (lack of) set-back to get the proper seat position for pedaling, particularly since I use either a 120mm fork or rigid fork which steepens the seat-tube angle a bit too much for seat-adjustment at the post to overcome.
> 
> My pedaling biomechanics are first priority...that's what I'm doing most of the time (and for long periods of time) on the bike.


This was an issue for me when I first started using a dropper. I've always had setback posts and ran the seat pretty far back on the rails. This was the most comfortable spot for me and it positioned the saddle far enough back that it allowed me to lean the bike way over while cornering. I found very few droppers with a setback clamp, so I ended up modifying my position on the bike. I can live with the modified position for riding to and from the trails and for fire road grinds. However, for long bike packing trips I still put one of my setback posts back on the bike because the position is much more static than when I'm riding trails.


----------



## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> Oh no!!!
> 
> Would the trailside judges deduct points from my score?


You shouldn't do things the right way just to appease others.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

LaXCarp said:


> the right way


LOL

So if what I choose to do works works fine for me, then why should I (or anyone else) care about 'appeasing' you and the rest of the self-appointed internet judging panel?

I can only think of 1 corner that I've never been able to manage, and that was on a 'secret' gnarly DH trail. It was commonly referred to as 'the left turn that should not be'. 
Other than that, no issues.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Oh no!!!
> 
> Would the trailside judges deduct points from my score?


No, they'll be too busy golf clapping the riders feeding their tires to their sphincters over a basic rooty turn to notice you just cleaned said turn faster.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> No, they'll be too busy golf clapping the riders feeding their tires to their sphincters over a basic rooty turn to notice you just cleaned said turn faster.


Then 'splaining how I simply have no idea what it's like to ride with a dropped seat and I should probably try it sometime so I can finally get off the sidewalk after all these years. 

🤡


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

We really need to get dropper riders and non-dropper riders together to see who has more fun 😉

Meanwhile my next dropper will be 240mm


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Then 'splaining how I simply have no idea what it's like to ride with a dropped seat and I should probably try it sometime so I can finally get off the sidewalk after all these years.
> 
> 🤡


Gotta get our ladies to massage our inner legs. It's impossible to swing a leg over.


----------



## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> get off the sidewalk after all these years.


Be sure to raise up your training wheels a bit too so you can lean the bike a bit.


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Then 'splaining how I simply have no idea what it's like to ride with a dropped seat and I should probably try it sometime so I can finally get off the sidewalk after all these years.
> 
> 🤡


I'm gonna assume your dh bike saddle is low though


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> Be sure to raise up your training wheels a bit too so you can lean the bike a bit.


Ooooh, training wheels! Forgot about mine. Maybe I'll fashion a lever for them. So I can 'drop' em. Don't want them in the way or anything.


----------



## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

LaXCarp said:


> I don't believe you can corner properly w/o use of a dropper.


He can't

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Haven't ditched the one I have on my FS 29er. It's been reliable and comes in handy with some frequency.

No plans to acquire more droppers for my other bikes. All of them have carbon posts (gravel, HT and two SS's) and corner efficiently enough for my over the hill/a bit more chill riding purposes.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> I'm gonna assume your dh bike saddle is low though


Slammed. Same with my BMX and DJ. 🤷‍♂️



rod9301 said:


> He can't


I've never gone around a corner successfully in my life. 
I typically ride as far as I can in a straight line until I run into something, then call someone help me off my bike (impossible without a dropper ya know), turn it around then have someone help me back on so I can beeline back to where I started. If there are any bumps though, I'm totally screwed. 

Internet experts are funny. 
And by funny, I mean a joke.
🤡


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Slammed. Same with my BMX and DJ. 🤷‍♂️


Yea, it's all about the usage.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> Be sure to raise up your training wheels a bit too so you can lean the bike a bit.


The internet gear-weenie collective told me it's unpossible for anyone who's ever used training wheels to ever learn how to ride a bike 'properly'. 
Only way is to go run out and buy a $400 scooter. And a 'manual machine', of course.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

How is this thread still going on?

Summarized bullet points

-some people love droppers 
-some people hate droppers
-some people are afraid of change
-some people welcome change
-there is still a perception that dropper reliability is a major issue

I think there is some context missing in this thread, riders locations and trails vary greatly. I live in a place that has long steep climbs (miles and 1-2k’) followed by equally long, steep, rough, and narrow descents. This isn’t everyone’s reality. If you only climb 50’ at a time just to descend the same 50’ or less then you probably don’t need a dropper. If you ride the hard stuff in Bellingham daily you probably do. 

Go ride your bike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

slapheadmofo said:


> Slammed. Same with my BMX and DJ. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This must be you in the red.










If only he had a dropper and could corner...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Little_twin said:


> I live in a place that has long steep climbs (miles and 1-2k’) followed by equally long, steep, rough, and narrow descents. This isn’t everyone’s reality.


Same.



Little_twin said:


> If you only climb 50’ at a time just to descend the same 50’ or less then you probably don’t need a dropper. If you ride the hard stuff in Bellingham daily you probably do.


Do you have an example of or link of the Bellingham stuff you're riding?

*I also wouldn't discount climbing/descending 50' or less at a time. In my experience, it's a lot harder (and more fun) if you're doing it quickly.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> Yea, it's all about the usage.


No way.


Little_twin said:


> How is this thread still going on?
> 
> Summarized bullet points
> 
> ...


You forgot - "some people just don't find them particularly useful personally" and "some people get upset by that and have to try to flex on the internet about it".


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> No way.
> 
> 
> You forgot - "some people just don't find them particularly useful personally" and "some people get upset by that and have to try to flex on the internet about it".


I wasn’t going to read the entire thread and was just trying to be helpful for the next “me” that came along. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

jochribs said:


> Same.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have an example of or link of the Bellingham stuff you're riding?


I’m not sure what I rode, I was there for a long weekend and met up with some locals that towed me around. We rode the usual Galbraith stuff but we also pedaled way the F out there one day and I got a proper introduction to wet rooty chutes and proper PNW loam 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Little_twin said:


> I’m not sure what I rode, I was there for a long weekend and met up with some locals that towed me around. We rode the usual Galbraith stuff but we also pedaled way the F out there one day and I got a proper introduction to wet rooty chutes and proper PNW loam
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gotcha.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

Been riding forever only to take a break for 5+ years. Just bought a new 29r with dropper. Glad to finally have dropper. Too many times in years past I’ve had my seat catch my shorts while trying to get back on the seat, after a drop and such. I don’t have that issue anymore. Plus I have different shorts that are less prone to getting caught. Still, looking forward to using the dropper more. Way easier than ever moving my seat with a clamp. What a Pita that was.


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## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> works works fine for me
> 
> been able to manage


Don't confuse "what works for me" and what you've "been able to manage" with the right way.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

cassieno said:


> I went to a bike park and only used my dropper lever once. Droppers aren't needed!


"aren't needed"......For you.


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## Smartattack (8 mo ago)

I thought he meant because he dropped the post once and left it there like a normal person would do at a park. 🤷


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

We need PAbushwackerin or whatever his name was! I wish he was not banned. So fun.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

C Smasher said:


> We need PAbushwackerin


Oh crap, I forgot about that. This issue would have been settled. @slapheadmofo weren't you going to race him? I guess we will never know and this thread will need to go on forever ever ever....


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> "aren't needed"......For you.


Don’t miss @cassieno’s point. He dropped his seat and then didn’t need to raise it again that day. 

Personally I’m as eager to ‘ditch my dropper’ as I am to ditch, say, my pedals or my handlebar. I’ll ditch them all when I ditch the sport of mountain biking. Until that day, I’m going to enjoy this sport to every degree that it can be enjoyed, and the dropper adds enjoyment in measure evidently not understood or utilized by some riders. 

Cool for them. Cool for me. Cool for everybody. UBU 
=sParty


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> Oh crap, I forgot about that. This issue would have been settled. @slapheadmofo weren't you going to race him? I guess we will never know and this thread will need to go on forever ever ever....


You know what would settle it for me? I'd be satisfied with you posting some video tutorials (of yourself) doing it "the right way". @LaXCarp too. 

I'd really love that. Really, really love that. 🥰 

'teach us to fish'...or something to that effect.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

@jochribs LOL what? When did I ever declare a "right" way? Feel free to read all my posts, they have my name next to them.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> @jochribs LOL what? When did I ever declare a "right" way? Feel free to read all my posts, they have my name next to them.


Ooof. This thread has been worthy of hip waders. Not sure I want to go back through it to find something to that effect by you  , but @LaXCarp used those exact words. Just want to see what the fuss is about. What I'm missing. Throw'er on the Youtube.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> Oh crap, I forgot about that. This issue would have been settled. @slapheadmofo weren't you going to race him? I guess we will never know and this thread will need to go on forever ever ever....


I tried, he bailed out and forfeited. Some BS excuse having to do with artisanal goat cheese and cybercurrency issues IIRC. 
Never paid up either, friggin' guy.

I do still hold the title of Northeast Regional HighPost Champion, so at least there's that.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

That's right! Oh man that was a classic thread. @jochribs I am a liar. I did make a statement about the "right" way to do things. I will quote it to save you time. 



fly4130 said:


> YMMV, just have fun.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

LaXCarp said:


> Don't confuse "what works for me" and what you've "been able to manage" with the right way.


 the "right" way.

FIFY


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> I'd be satisfied with you posting some video tutorials (of yourself) doing it "the right way". @LaXCarp too.
> 
> I'd really love that. Really, really love that. 🥰
> 
> 'teach us to fish'...or something to that effect.


Didn't Bushwacker already do that? 
I seem to remember a video of him humping his tire down some basic trail and declaring himself the bestest and fastest rider who's never raced ever.
But man, he sure was "right" a lot.

LOL


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> That's right! Oh man that was a classic thread. @jochribs I am a liar. I did make a statement about the "right" way to do things. I will quote it to save you time.


Ah, you're right! I must have mixed that up with this one below, that seemed to be to the contrary as far as what I'd read starting on post #1, considering the barbs were coming from the dropper camp towards the rigid post camp, and the thread was actually about if ditched it and why, per the OP. But whatever. Just found that assertion pretty interesting. 


fly4130 said:


> This thread is NOT about ebikes! This thread is about people who like droppers, and people who don't run them and feel attacked when someone else says they like them, likely while sipping a malt at a 50s diner.


So again though, you are correct. You didn't say that. However, I'd still like to see some technique if you're down for it. Some aggressive turns. Fishing lessons.  


fly4130 said:


> I live in a very not hilly place and I find myself using the post more for turning than for steeps. You can put your body wherever it needs to go. It is very freeing and lets you get quite aggressive on the turns.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Didn't Bushwacker already do that?
> I seem to remember a video of him humping his tire down some basic trail and declaring himself the bestest and fastest rider who's never raced ever.
> But man, he sure was "right" a lot.
> 
> LOL


Yup, and that's where, I recall, I coined the action of 'feeding ones tire to their sphincter'. Found it quite interesting that he'd adopt such a posture and technique for such a mundane feature, _whilst _having a dropper. Making a tire filled taco with yer cheeks is another endearing way to describe such squattery. 

**That "right way" again...


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Sorry man, I drop "/s" as often as I drop seat posts.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> Sorry man, I drop "/s" as often as I drop seat posts.


Vid, or it didn't happen.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Until that day, I’m going to enjoy this sport to every degree that it can be enjoyed, and for me, the dropper adds enjoyment


FIFY too.  

I know what they do and understand completely why lots of people love them. That's cool. 
I run gears on trail bikes because I can't imagine not having them.
What I don't do is go around telling strangers who choose to ride SS that they can't possibly be a 'real' riders on 'real' trails. LOL. 
That would make me both clueless and a d*ck. And I'm not clueless.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I can ride a bike pretty darn quickly down some pretty darn aggressive trails with the seat up. And I can have a lot of fun doing it. But with seat down it makes things way less sketchy. And that is a good thing.

But there is something to riding with a highpost every once in a while. Droppers allow us to get away with pretty horrible body positions. Whereas to ride a high post well you have ti be doing everything right.

I have an old hardtail with a straight post and riding it every once in a while makes me quicker on all my other bikes.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Canssago said:


> Honestly, the guys not using them do not ride the same trails. Back in the mid 90's, used to have to put the saddle firmly in the stomach and sit on the back tire to not go over the bars on the steep rocky trails and held on. Rode a trail today that I used to ride without the dropper and can keep my hands on the bar and brakes and STILL steer. It was glorious and I went way to fast!


I remember the days of getting gut-punched by the saddle on the steep trails. And the back tire bouncing up into your ^$$


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Canssago said:


> QR were too heavy, c'mon bro, do you even ride?


That's right! I had the seatpost bolt because a QR was too heavy and made it easier for someone to steal your saddle. It was all the way up all the time.

Looking back with hindsight, it was a pretty stupid approach.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

james-42 said:


> Well I can't run a dropper post and a suspension seatpost so....


Reverb Stealth - SP-RVB-S-C1 - RockShox


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> Do you have an example of or link of the Bellingham stuff you're riding?
> 
> *I also wouldn't discount climbing/descending 50' or less at a time. In my experience, it's a lot harder (and more fun) if you're doing it quickly.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> What I don't do is go around telling strangers who choose to ride SS that they can't possibly be a 'real' riders on 'real' trails. LOL.


Maybe you should do that and then challenge anyone who disagrees with you to a cryptocurrency winner take all race.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


>


Thanks Curve.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Curveball said:


> I remember the days of getting gut-punched by the saddle on the steep trails. And the back tire bouncing up into your ^$$


You were doing it wrong.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I need a drop limiting collar.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

All of my most epic OTBs have been with a rigid post all the way up. One time I did a handstand on the handlebars down a fast, rocky descent, but didn’t quite go over the bars. Instead, I came down on the top tube.

It would have been better to go over the bars.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

cookieMonster said:


> All of my most epic OTBs have been with a rigid post all the way up. One time I did a handstand on the handlebars down a fast, rocky descent, but didn’t quite go over the bars. Instead, I came down on the top tube.
> 
> It would have been better to go over the bars.


I think we’ve all been there but most of us have blocked out those memories. 🤔


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

milehi said:


> I need a drop limiting collar.


The old quick release worked wonders once reaching the top. I always felt sorry for the ones without a quick release. Forced to pull out an Allen wrench or ride it out down the DH with fully extended post. 👀


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> You were doing it wrong.


You and I seem to have the same way of seeing that. I think it's somewhat having to do with riding trails (bmx) and being comfortable with committing to the nosedive on steep landings. You're not squatting and pushing the bike forward in front of you in some extreme way. You're committed to that bikes 75 degree HA , the little wheel and the pitch of the landing, already looking at the next lip. 

I came to dirt jumping and riding street (bunny hopping into stair sets) as an offshoot of my xc, road and cyclocross riding. I think being comfortable riding steep stuff without pushing the bike in front of me, as if that was going to help matters, made the nosediving on a bmx bike really alluring once the fear of the gaps was overcome. 

Seat being up has never been an issue. The more people say it was, or should be, the more I'm proud that it wasn't.

*And especially now, with head angles as slack as they are, and wheelbases longer with that ALL being out in front of you. Plus the wheels. The massive 29 inch wheels. Wasn't a problem before, it's even less of one now.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> You and I seem to have the same way of seeing that. I think it's somewhat having to do with riding trails (bmx) and being comfortable with committing to the nosedive on steep landings. You're not squatting and pushing the bike forward in front of you in some extreme way. You're committed to that bikes 75 degree HA , the little wheel and the pitch of the landing, already looking at the next lip.
> 
> I came to dirt jumping and riding street (bunny hopping into stair sets) as an offshoot of my xc, road and cyclocross riding. I think being comfortable riding steep stuff without pushing the bike in front of me, as if that was going to help matters, made the nosediving on a bmx bike really alluring once the fear of the gaps was overcome.
> 
> ...


Were you riding the trails of Bellingham, Washington in the early 1990s? If not, then you have no idea about what I’m talking about.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

LMN said:


> I can ride a bike pretty darn quickly down some pretty darn aggressive trails with the seat up. And I can have a lot of fun doing it. But with seat down it makes things way less sketchy. And that is a good thing.
> 
> But there is something to riding with a highpost every once in a while. Droppers allow us to get away with pretty horrible body positions. Whereas to ride a high post well you have ti be doing everything right.
> 
> I have an old hardtail with a straight post and riding it every once in a while makes me quicker on all my other bikes.


I vastly prefer to have a dropper in an XC race, the more ups and downs (the more it is a MOUNTAIN bike race) the better in that regard. There are some limited situations though where it makes sense for me to keep pedaling and have half a second more of pedaling than putting the seat down/up, even on some jumps. 

But dropper allows the correct body position for the terrain, not horrible body position. Horrible is holding on for dear life and hoping you can keep from getting bounced out of sequence and endoing.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> Were you riding the trails of Bellingham, Washington in the early 1990s? If not, then you have no idea about what I’m talking about.


Can't say I was. What was that video you posted illustrating? Comparable?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> Can't say I was. What was that video you posted illustrating? Comparable?


It’s changed a whole lot in 30 years from that video. It was more raw back then. Rake and ride fall lines.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> It’s changed a whole lot in 30 years from that video. It was more raw back then. Rake and ride fall lines.


Ok, that's about what I figured. Hate to break it to you, but I do know what I'm talking about. '95 here. Pretty much the majority of what we did back then was plunging down through or over some erosion trench, or drop off or something else like that. Because it was there. And we had 'mountain bikes', and it just seemed like the thing to do. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I'll bet just about every spot on this continent was doing the same thing. It's what we ALL did in the 90's. 

I am not dissing you or your home at all, but I wouldn't have shyed away from anything in that video if it were part of a ride btw. Nothing extraordinary about it. Search it out on purpose? No, it's kind of cliche` to me. Especially the platform drop. Not into that. Can do em no problem. I think they're stupid though.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Curveball said:


> It’s changed a whole lot in 30 years from that video. It was more raw back then. Rake and ride fall lines.


I watched the video and was looking for any part where I'd want or need to raise my seat on the fly.

Didn't see any. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Jayem said:


> I vastly prefer to have a dropper in an XC race, the more ups and downs (the more it is a MOUNTAIN bike race) the better in that regard.


If the number of XC races I planned on doing was somewhere above zero, I might feel more of a need to maximize speed through every possible scenario.
But, I don't race IRL nor do I pretend to on Strava, so I'm fine with not trying to be the fastest guy out there.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Curveball said:


> Were you riding the trails of Bellingham, Washington in the early 1990s? If not, then you have no idea about what I’m talking about.


I was riding Lynn Woods. Come at me bro!


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

slapheadmofo said:


> If the number of XC races I planned on doing was somewhere above zero, I might feel more of a need to maximize speed through every possible scenario.
> But, I don't race IRL nor do I pretend to on Strava, so I'm fine with not trying to be the fastest guy out there.






😝


----------



## L1kesb1kes (Apr 24, 2021)

Love my dropper. I tried not using it just for a laugh last ride on a familiar trail that i used to ride all the time with the seat up and I don't know how i rode without it.

I'm also pretty sure that new bike geometry doesn't work as well without the dropper. My "conservative" xcish bike has a 67 hta. That's bordering on old school downhill numbers. Coupled with the steep sta, the seat is way more in the way than it used to be.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> If the number of XC races I planned on doing was somewhere above zero, I might feel more of a need to maximize speed through every possible scenario.
> But, I don't race IRL nor do I pretend to on Strava, so I'm fine with not trying to be the fastest guy out there.


And yet, I'd wager you are no slouch.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

16 pages and still not sure if I should be using a dropper or not.


----------



## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

006_007 said:


> 16 pages and still not sure if I should be using a dropper or not.


Use one if you've got one!

Hit my nuts on the saddle today jumping over a ditch (it was a shortcut). Dropper on the bike but didn't bother to lower the saddle for one jump...

Or maybe the problem is that I have been using one? Now I have bad form for the quick ex tempore jumps.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> And yet, I'd wager you are no slouch.


Well, I can still handle a bike okay. 
Fitness level these days, on the other hand...

🐢


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

slapheadmofo said:


> If the number of XC races I planned on doing was somewhere above zero, I might feel more of a need to maximize speed through every possible scenario.
> But, I don't race IRL nor do I pretend to on Strava, so I'm fine with not trying to be the fastest guy out there.


Or, you could be safer and more in control at your normal speed?


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Jayem said:


> Or, you could be safer and more in control at your normal speed?


Can't remember last time I felt 'unsafe' trail riding, nor had control issues. 
I really don't tend to seek out highly challenging terrain anymore. If I did I'd be all about my dropper I'm sure, but for regular New England trails? Specially these days when most stuff has been dumbed down compared to the jank we used to ride, meh...simply don't find the need. 
Again, that's just me personally.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm curious if there are a few factors that allow the high post shredders on here to avoid droppers.

Slack STA/seat pushed back? Lower saddle height then what is normally considered efficient (approx road standards)? Short travel/HT?

I live in the area that's basically straight winch/plummet where the same trails we high-posted through the 90's are now WC DH training grounds. Maybe the fact that in this area you're sitting on the nose of your saddle grinding in granny for 20+ min at a time doesn't really allow for a compromised saddle height. I get how it_ can _me done, but nobody here does.


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## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

EatsDirt said:


> Slack STA/seat pushed back? Lower saddle height then what is normally considered efficient (approx road standards)? Short travel/HT?


Also small frame long stem.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

slapheadmofo said:


> Can't remember last time I felt 'unsafe' trail riding, nor had control issues.
> I really don't tend to seek out highly challenging terrain anymore. If I did I'd be all about my dropper I'm sure, but for regular New England trails? Specially these days when most stuff has been dumbed down compared to the jank we used to ride, meh...simply don't find the need.
> Again, that's just me personally.


I didn't feel unsafe, till I crashed.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

EatsDirt said:


> I'm curious if there are a few factors that allow the high post shredders on here to avoid droppers.
> 
> Slack STA/seat pushed back? Lower saddle height then what is normally considered efficient (approx road standards)? Short travel/HT?


Nope. Seat angle is 74.5. Zero offset post. Saddle is at the maximum height my inseam can properly spin with 175's. Basically the same as my road/gravel bike. I also run an 80mm stem on my 67 degree HA'd downcountry bike. 10mm of spacer (well maybe 18mm with the chunky dust cap) but my HT is only 90mm. Bars are 800. 2020 Top Fuel. 

For me, it comes down to becoming proficient with the saddle at that height from an early standpoint. 

I've never found it an issue to move around the bike, point the bike down steep stuff, or navigate tech. The amount of room I have between my parts and my saddle while standing is plenty of room to float while spinning up through rocky chunk, as well as let the bike do what it needs to while descending through the same thing. I learned to ride and be respectably fast on very chunky, rocky/rooty up and down/anaerobic terrain. This is well before the idea of droppers was thought of, and factoring that I never felt like I was in trouble with the seat where it was, droppers have had virtually zero appeal to me. Only thing I 'think' they'd be good for me personally for is helping the articulation process of hopping. That said, I'm not bothering. The weight, the headache of quality and having one more thing on my bars to make a birds nest is completely unappealing. If I'd spent my early years making it career of going over the bars and being scared sh itless of the few times I actually did, maybe I'd feel different. But that just wasn't the case.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm going to also venture that you haven't tried one. Fair, but it's data point that is kind of important in this discussion.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

suburbanassault said:


> Also small frame long stem.


615 tt / 74.5 sa / 67 ha / 80mm stem. Not short at all in terms of reach, and not the typical stem length either. Previous bike (that so many sneeringly refer to as a road bike geo) had the effectively same cockpit dimensions, while running a 100mm stem (slammed). Never had one iota of an issue on that bike either. Actually miss the sharp handling of that bike a bit. Current bike is about 3.5 inches longer. I've gotten used to it.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> I'm going to also venture that you haven't tried one. Fair, but it's data point that is kind of important in this discussion.


I've got one on my bike right now. 
Have a couple others that spent some time on previous bikes as well. 

I really do keep trying to find them useful, but so far, meh. I'd rather just keep my mind on the ride than constantly fiddle-f*ck around with my seat height every 5 seconds.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

dysfunction said:


> I'm going to also venture that you haven't tried one. Fair, but it's data point that is kind of important in this discussion.


I maintain and mess around on my sons bike which has one with 150 travel. I think that gives my comments validity in terms of neutrality and a solid grasp of what they do. Not unimportant, is the fact that he uses the thing almost never. Well be both letting it all hang out on a descent (it's pretty awesome flying through chunk with your son and he's just in front of you, and man, words don't really do it justice) and he hasn't even dropped his seat. I ask him at times why he didn't drop it, and his invariable response is "I didn't need to". That's my boy. 

He does use it if he takes his bike to the jump park.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> I've got one on my bike right now.
> Have a couple others that spent some time on previous bikes as well.
> 
> I really do keep trying to find them useful, but so far, meh. I'd rather just keep my mind on the ride than constantly fiddle-f*ck around with my seat height every 5 seconds.


Yea, was positive you had.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

jochribs said:


> I maintain and mess around on my sons bike which has one with 150 travel. I think that gives my comments validity in terms of neutrality and a solid grasp of what they do. Not unimportant, is the fact that he uses the thing almost never. Well be both letting it all hang out on a descent (it's pretty awesome flying through chunk with your son and he's just in front of you, and man, words don't really do it justice) and he hasn't even dropped his seat. I ask him at times why he didn't drop it, and his invariable response is "I didn't need to". That's my boy.
> 
> He does use it if he takes his bike to the jump park.



So the answer is, other than being a mechanic no.


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## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

jochribs said:


> 615 tt / 74.5 sa / 67 ha / 80mm stem. Not short at all in terms of reach, and not the typical stem length either. Previous bike (that so many sneeringly refer to as a road bike geo) had the effectively same cockpit dimensions, while running a 100mm stem (slammed). Never had one iota of an issue on that bike either. Actually miss the sharp handling of that bike a bit. Current bike is about 3.5 inches longer. I've gotten used to it.


Seems like an interesting "halfway between old and new" bike. A nice ride no doubt.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

dysfunction said:


> So the answer is, other than being a mechanic no.


No, that isn't the answer. Read it again.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

jochribs said:


> No, that isn't the answer. Read it again.


So you've actually used them. I didn't get that from your response. I got observation only. English isn't everyone's native language here.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

suburbanassault said:


> Seems like an interesting "halfway between old and new" bike. A nice ride no doubt.


Yes, that's a good way to put it. I struggled for a bit with deciding what size to get. Actually a really long time. For the Top Fuel, the sizing had me either on a M or a M/L. I seriously could have gone either way. Stack was the same on both. Difference in length was about 2cm. Coming off a bike with a much shorter wheelbase, I was afraid of going too long. I really liked the way my hardtail handled. And even the M was going to be a substantial bit longer due to SA and HA. But, I'd have probably wanted an even longer stem on that one, so I went with the bigger. Felt like a GD truck for a bit, but I've gotten used to what it requires to ride it the way I want to.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

It appears the price tag and fear of poor quality is keeping people from trying a dropper. The things have been around forever, so I’d guess the kinks have been worked out. My new bike came with one so I’m using it. I’m glad it came with one because I’ve always wanted to try one. Of course I learned to ride without one but now I get to ride with one learning to work it and when. Basically drop it on the down hills and up on the uphills. Leave it up for the most part on flat trails. But it’s nice having it out of the way on drops, jumps, and down hills. With so many riders commenting about not liking them, anyone looking to try one should have no problem finding a used one to try. I can really only suspect it’s the price tag keeping someone from trying it and being worried they won’t like it. Buy a used one.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Tallboy723 said:


> It appears the price tag and fear of poor quality is keeping people from trying a dropper. The things have been around forever, so I’d guess the kinks have been worked out. My new bike came with one so I’m using it. I’m glad it came with one because I’ve always wanted to try one. Of course I learned to ride without one but now I get to ride with one learning to work it and when. Basically drop it on the down hills and up on the uphills. Leave it up for the most part on flat trails. But it’s nice having it out of the way on drops, jumps, and down hills. With so many riders commenting about not liking them, anyone looking to try one should have no problem finding a used one to try. I can really only suspect it’s the price tag keeping someone from trying it and being worried they won’t like it. Buy a used one.


This is really dismissing the (admittedly small) sect of us that simply do not want one. I can afford any one I want. That doesn't sweeten the situation.


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## Super E (Nov 5, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> I really do keep trying to find them useful, but so far, meh. I'd rather just keep my mind on the ride than constantly fiddle-f*ck around with my seat height every 5 seconds.


Yep, me too…I’ve had droppers because they came on a new bike, but I’ve always found them to be more of an annoyance vs. useful for 99.9999% of my riding. So yes, I wish for one 0.0001% of my riding time (more like a passive thought like “hey a dropper would be nice over this obstacle”). Plus I hate fiddle-farting around with gadgets, lockouts, etc. when riding. Got friends that love em, I simply don’t like them or need them.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

jochribs said:


> This is really dismissing the (admittedly small) sect of us that simply do not want one. I can afford any one I want. That doesn't sweeten the situation.


I get it you don’t want one. And I believe all of us can afford one. My point was, it’s a lot of coin to try out in hopes a rider likes it. Some were on the fence, so I encouraged them to buy a used one. But if a rider has never tried a dropper and is on the fence, then they really shouldn’t discount it until they have tried one. 
It’s like getting my kids to try and eat something new and they immediately say they don’t like it without trying it.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

Super E said:


> Yep, me too…I’ve had droppers because they came on a new bike, but I’ve always found them to be more of an annoyance vs. useful for 99.9999% of my riding. So yes, I wish for one 0.0001% of my riding time (more like a passive thought like “hey a dropper would be nice over this obstacle”). Plus I hate fiddle-farting around with gadgets, lockouts, etc. when riding. Got friends that love em, I simply don’t like them or need them.


It’s a button. Lol. Did you ever have a bike with a front derailleur? These new bikes with 1X have simplified the dropper even more. I get it may not be for everyone.
Shoot just swinging my leg over the bike with the seat dropped is worth having one. Lol.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

milehi said:


> I need a drop limiting collar.


You're in luck. I make a product called the "Dropper Stopper", PM me if interested


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

dysfunction said:


> So you've actually used them. I didn't get that from your response. I got observation only. English isn't everyone's native language here.


Gauging that your written English is fine, I'd say that leaves your comprehension in need of improvement. Or maybe your brain skipped my first sentence out of convenience. I honestly don't care.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

jochribs said:


> Gauging that your written English is fine, I'd say that leaves your comprehension in need of improvement. Or maybe your brain skipped my first sentence out of convenience. I honestly don't care.


Well, messed around is pretty fucking vague. But your response is dickish either way.


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## Super E (Nov 5, 2004)

Tallboy723 said:


> It’s a button. Lol. Did you ever have a bike with a front derailleur? These new bikes with 1X have simplified the dropper even more. I get it may not be for everyone.
> Shoot just swinging my leg over the bike with the seat dropped is worth having one. Lol.


Yeah, yeah I realize its a button. Just more stuff on my bars, not complicated, just more. My friends have like 6-cables running off their bars for 2-shock lockouts, rear shifter, dropper, 2-brake cables (unless they're wired with e-shifting), plus a phone and gps. I have 2-brake cables and I make it to the same point they do at the same time or earlier. I do get a kick out of them boinging up-and-down all the time needlessly with their dropper posts. And they love em.


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

I love my droppers. Very functional and enabled much faster descending and better bike balance options. I have them on 3 of 4 bikes I ride all of the time. *My only complaint is their weight.* They friggin add too much weight to my bikes. From my perspective, they should weight 1/2 as much as they do. Seems to me like droppers need upgrade designs to lighter but cost effective materials.
Then I would even put one on my road bike.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

Tallboy723 said:


> It’s a button. Lol. Did you ever have a bike with a front derailleur? These new bikes with 1X have simplified the dropper even more. I get it may not be for everyone.





Super E said:


> Yeah, yeah I realize its a button. Just more stuff on my bars, not complicated, just more. My friends have like 6-cables running off their bars for 2-shock lockouts, rear shifter, dropper, 2-brake cables (unless they're wired with e-shifting), plus a phone and gps. I have 2-brake cables and I make it to the same point they do at the same time or earlier. I do get a kick out of them boinging up-and-down all the time needlessly with their dropper posts. And they love em.


6 cables. Wow. I have 4. I get the whole cluster F of things. I try to ride with minimal stuff in my pack. Done are the days I would carry 20 lbs of crap. I have a pump, press gauge, tire repair kit/plugs and water in my camelback. All small items that are light. Actually been looking at smaller packs. My pack can carry way more than I do. At one point I needed it. Not now.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

dysfunction said:


> Well, messed around is pretty fucking vague. But your response is dickish either way.


No it's not vague. It's just that you're a weasel, and looking for a confrontation. You knew what it meant. You purposely ignored it so you could get some insecurity off your chest. Seems about right for someone of your mettle. The imbecilic level of hypocrisy in you refering to my post as dickish is so glaring that I really question the IQ level you're working with.

***Remember, everyone else is reading the same things you're reading and making some pretty ridiculous claims about. Not really sure how you can pass of this comment by me as un-understandable, vague and most dishonest of all on your part...dickish. You're lucky I even acknowledged your obvious trolling comment. 

_"I maintain and mess around on my sons bike which has one with 150 travel. I think that gives my comments validity in terms of neutrality and a solid grasp of what they do. Not unimportant, is the fact that he uses the thing almost never. Well be both letting it all hang out on a descent (it's pretty awesome flying through chunk with your son and he's just in front of you, and man, words don't really do it justice) and he hasn't even dropped his seat. I ask him at times why he didn't drop it, and his invariable response is "I didn't need to". That's my boy._

_He does use it if he takes his bike to the jump park."_

I think you should change your name to Dysentery. It's much more accurate. Go away.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

TiJoe said:


> I love my droppers. Very functional and enabled much faster descending and better bike balance options. I have them on 3 of 4 bikes I ride all of the time. *My only complaint is their weight.* They friggin add too much weight to my bikes. From my perspective, they should weight 1/2 as much as they do. Seems to me like droppers need upgrade designs to lighter but cost effective materials.
> Then I would even put one on my road bike.


I agree they're stupid heavy. I don't know that they can be made much lighter though, and still have the _reasonable _reliability that they have. I say _reasonable _with my tongue firmly in my cheek.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I’d also like to comment on using droppers formco


slapheadmofo said:


> ... I'd rather just keep my mind on the ride than constantly fiddle-f*ck around with my seat height every 5 seconds.


That's me exactly. Too complex, too heavy. By removing the dropper not only do I have peace of mind but, with tubeless tires and some SRAM Eagle XO1 love I have got the bike down below 29 pounds. Feels like a friggen' feather.


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## Smartattack (8 mo ago)

There is another massive benefit nobody has mentioned yet. Does anyone realize how comfortable it is to sit on your bike while stopped with the dropper down? I always used to prop my bike against a tree and find a suitable rock to rest on in the woods for a snack. With a slammed seat I now never leave the bike even when stopped.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Smartattack said:


> There is another massive benefit nobody has mentioned yet. Does anyone realize how comfortable it is to sit on your bike while stopped with the dropper down? I always used to prop my bike against a tree and find a suitable rock to rest on in the woods for a snack. With a slammed seat I now never leave the bike even when stopped.


I lean myself against the tree, and don't unclip. Or, I unclip one foot and put it on something. A rock, a log, a stump that kind of thing. I'm not getting off my bike unless I have to either.


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## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

Smartattack said:


> There is another massive benefit nobody has mentioned yet. Does anyone realize how comfortable it is to sit on your bike while stopped with the dropper down? I always used to prop my bike against a tree and find a suitable rock to rest on in the woods for a snack. With a slammed seat I now never leave the bike even when stopped.


One cheek on the top tube was the technique back in the day.  Or the qr lever...

It is a big improvement, not denying it. Funny indeed if no one mentioned it yet. Everyone is just sending and shredding. Well except when they're climbing, seated. No time to stop for a breather.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Tallboy723 said:


> It appears the price tag and fear of poor quality is keeping people from trying a dropper.





jochribs said:


> This is really dismissing the (admittedly small) sect of us that simply do not want one. I can afford any one I want. That doesn't sweeten the situation.


Seriously. "Can't afford one". 

I have 3 of them right now and at least a dozen bikes. 
It's not a matter of $$.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Smartattack said:


> There is another massive benefit nobody has mentioned yet. Does anyone realize how comfortable it is to sit on your bike while stopped with the dropper down?


"Massive". 

LOL


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I’d venture to say that most of the high-posters in this thread don’t know what a steep trail/ feature is. They think they do, but they don’t 😉.

Not really a criticism, just that a lot of people don’t have a frame of reference. For example, I don’t find any trails in Moab to be steep at all, and not terribly technical either. Portal is tech but not truly steep anywhere. Ahab is flat, and so is Porc rim.🤣.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

cookieMonster said:


> I’d venture to say that most of the high-posters in this thread don’t know what a steep trail/ feature is. They think they do, but they don’t 😉.
> 
> Not really a criticism, just that a lot of people don’t have a frame of reference. For example, I don’t find any trails in Moab to be steep at all, and not terribly technical either. Portal is tech but not truly steep anywhere. Ahab is flat, and so is Porc rim.🤣.


Steep and fast or steep and tip toeing down? I'll take steep and fast. It's one of the reasons I live where I do.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

milehi said:


> Steep and fast or steep and tip toeing down? I'll take steep and fast. It's one of the reasons I live where I do.


Both. But the steepest are usually relatively slow. Having your seat out of the way is critical on both though. I can think of five or six trails (all unsanctioned), where it would be impossible to ride down in one piece with a high post. Those kinds of trails are all over the PNW and BC.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

jochribs said:


> Nope. Seat angle is 74.5. Zero offset post. Saddle is at the maximum height my inseam can properly spin with 175's. Basically the same as my road/gravel bike. I also run an 80mm stem on my 67 degree HA'd downcountry bike. 10mm of spacer (well maybe 18mm with the chunky dust cap) but my HT is only 90mm. Bars are 800. 2020 Top Fuel.
> 
> For me, it comes down to becoming proficient with the saddle at that height from an early standpoint.
> 
> I've never found it an issue to move around the bike, point the bike down steep stuff, or navigate tech. The amount of room I have between my parts and my saddle while standing is plenty of room to float while spinning up through rocky chunk, as well as let the bike do what it needs to while descending through the same thing. I learned to ride and be respectably fast on very chunky, rocky/rooty up and down/anaerobic terrain. This is well before the idea of droppers was thought of, and factoring that I never felt like I was in trouble with the seat where it was, droppers have had virtually zero appeal to me. Only thing I 'think' they'd be good for me personally for is helping the articulation process of hopping. That said, I'm not bothering. The weight, the headache of quality and having one more thing on my bars to make a birds nest is completely unappealing. If I'd spent my early years making it career of going over the bars and being scared sh itless of the few times I actually did, maybe I'd feel different. But that just wasn't the case.


FWIW what I read here is that your comments on letting the bike move are about fore-aft movement in the pitch axis, not side-side movement in the roll axis. 

There really isn’t a way to corner a modern geometry bike with modern technique without a dropper post to move the saddle out of the way. There just isn’t. You can’t tip a bike over underneath you when your leg is in the way of the saddle. I also started riding a long time ago myself, and I never had a hard time getting behind the saddle. Most people didn’t. But that’s not the main advantage IMO. 

Half the posters in this thread remind me of this book cover:










Just because you can extend the envelope of your equipment doesn’t mean there isn’t an advantage to modern equipment and technique.


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## Smartattack (8 mo ago)

slapheadmofo said:


> "Massive".
> 
> LOL


I meant collosal, sorry.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

cookieMonster said:


> Both. But the steepest are usually relatively slow. Having your seat out of the way is critical on both though. I can think of five or six trails (all unsanctioned), where it would be impossible to ride down in one piece with a high post. Those kinds of trails are all over the PNW and BC.


They’re scattered throughout SoCal too, right under Miley’s nose… and yet he’s gonna drive down for OTH XC or Fontana.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I took a look at the dust ring on my Revive. In the last super d/DH I raced, I used only 85ish mm of drop of the available 160.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

For my ride today, I removed the lever for my dropper. So if I did a ride with no way of activating it then I didnt have a dropper right?

Edit - with it in it's fully extended position


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

milehi said:


> I took a look at the dust ring on my Revive. In the last super d/DH I raced, I used only 85ish mm of drop of the available 160.


Obviously your frame is too small for you then.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

006_007 said:


> Obviously your frame is too small for you then.


No. It's perfectly sized for me. In fact if I were to have this frame custom built, I wouldn't mess with the numbers. It's an aluminum GG Smash and I sought it out because I liked the numbers over the next gen plastic frame. My four previous frames have been custom with very similar numbers, two of which were full suspension. At full extention the post is in the sweet spot and looks proportionally correct. The frame is sized for riders 5'9-6'2 and I'm 5'11.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Tallboy723 said:


> It’s a button. Lol. Did you ever have a bike with a front derailleur? These new bikes with 1X have simplified the dropper even more. I get it may not be for everyone.
> Shoot just swinging my leg over the bike with the seat dropped is worth having one. Lol.



Hang on...I got rid of the front derailleur as soon as I could. I'm talking early adopter of 1x drivetrains.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

I think some folks in this thread would ditch a pound of gold because of the weight.

Anyway, bought my first dropper (Gravity Dropper) in 2005 and knew it was a game changer before I even ordered it. I still have that post and is still works great.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> I watched the video and was looking for any part where I'd want or need to raise my seat on the fly.
> 
> Didn't see any. 🤷‍♂️


That’s because they didn’t show all the trail parts between the steep bits.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

My buds and I went and rode a new mountain for us in the Cascades. I don’t think I could have done it without a dropper.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

milehi said:


> I took a look at the dust ring on my Revive. In the last super d/DH I raced, I used only 85ish mm of drop of the available 160.


While I do like having 150mm+ droppers, I do think that the _need _for super long drops is over-rated. In my expereince it is the first 100mm that get you most of the benefit. I do use the full 150mm drop on one dropper, but realistically I got 90% of the benefit with the previous 100mm drop post. 

On my 29er with a 170mm dropper, I'm pretty sure my butt hits the rear tire before the saddle gets in the way (I have stubby legs on a med frame).


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kapusta said:


> While I do like having 150mm+ droppers, I do think that the _need _for super long drops is over-rated. In my expereince it is the first 100mm that get you most of the benefit. I do use the full 150mm drop on one dropper, but realistically I got 90% of the benefit with the previous 100mm drop post.
> 
> On my 29er with a 170mm dropper, I'm pretty sure my butt hits the rear tire before the saddle gets in the way (I have stubby legs on a med frame).


I feel the same. The sweet spot for me is around 6", more is not necessarily worse, but the benefits start to become marginal and introducing more flex, reliability issues due to flex and heavier, but not way more capable at DH. 100 min for XC racing, but I'd rather have 120ish at least there if possible. I do right now, but if a light enough post at 100 came out AND was infinitely adjustable, I might consider it, but I sure ain't "downsizing" for no good reason. I just see the majority of the benefit occurrs in the first 100-150mm and after that, it's a lot less. One issue though is 29er wheels are ginormous and hard to get behind, even with a dropper, so for like super steep slab riding, it's generally easier for me on a 27.5 due to being able to get behind better, even though the wheel-roll-over of the 29er is obviously better.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cookieMonster said:


> I’d venture to say that most of the high-posters in this thread don’t know what a steep trail/ feature is. They think they do, but they don’t 😉.




Oh please.
I've done hundreds of lift days, mostly in the days of fall-line tech before the whole 'flow' concept entered the game.
After riding actual challenging terrain, I really don't run into much on regular "XC" trails that make me feel the need be bouncing my seat all around, and makes me wonder why some people are constantly dicking with theirs for the same stuff but don't seem to be doing much if anything a whole lot faster or bigger.

You'd probably find the same thing. Like, why bother for that little roller? I'm down, over or through before I even bother thinking about screwing with my seat height.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

evasive said:


> FWIW what I read here is that your comments on letting the bike move are about fore-aft movement in the pitch axis, not side-side movement in the roll axis.
> 
> There really isn’t a way to corner a modern geometry bike with modern technique without a dropper post to move the saddle out of the way. There just isn’t. You can’t tip a bike over underneath you when your leg is in the way of the saddle. I also started riding a long time ago myself, and I never had a hard time getting behind the saddle. Most people didn’t. But that’s not the main advantage IMO.
> 
> ...


You are incorrect, Evasive. Please don't tell me what there "just isn't" the ability to do **(that really sounds Bushwacker-esque). My bike moves side to side quite easily, and I do it _*absolutely all the time*_. I lean the bike heavily through turns if I need to and transition quickly. Think about it. I tend to enter the turns that need it, with my inside foot forward, or forward and up, or somewhere in that clock position range. On my mountain bike, I switch up non-stop as I flow through turns. With my inside foot forward, knees flexed and hips and and knees pointing/driving towards the turn, I lean the bike easily. I can practically lay the bike down if I want to, tipping the bars by pushing the inside bar down, staying on the outside of the bike with pressure on the tires. I wouldn't be surprised if I have a split second of countersteer in that too. I'd wager I'm doing the same thing anyone turning aggressively with a dropper is doing. A lot of times I'm doing it better than the people that I am on the trail with, catching people that have dialed, decked out whips and their droppers down, and their form is utter s hit. There are a lot of folks out there with terrible form, and this *isn't*_* because* _of the dropper, but the dropper has allowed them to keep using that terrible form, and doing _*relatively *_well despite that. However, to be a high poster, *and be proficient *you've got to have your s hit together as far as form is concerned.

Another point you might have missed is that I have never been one to 'get behind' the saddle. I stay 'over' it. I might be above it, and _behind_ slightly, but I'm never behind it where if I tried to move forward in that plane that I'd catch myself on the seat if you can picture that or if it's clear enough, which is what I'm gathering you mean by "behind the saddle". That's not uncomfortable to me or feeling anywhere near going 'over the bars'. Never has been... 26", 100mm stem and 72 degrees, or 29", 80mm and 67. Getting back and pushing forward was and is ridiculous. My arms hold my upper body (head/shoulders, that mass area) in a low, elbows flexed position. My body tends to stay in a position where I a more or less perpendicular to pitch, if you visualize the bike, and my body above the two wheels. Moving my mass forward and back somewhere in that area depending on what is going on with the terrain.

Since you linked/mentioned snowsports, that's a good way to understand that as I am assuming you also ski or snowboard. I am a pretty strong snowboarder, going back to 94, and started skiing in the early 80's. Do you lean back and up the hill, fearful of what you're approaching...or do you get yourself more perpendicular to the pitch?? If you want to be able to turn and control your skis or snowboard, you're not leaning back, you're leaning into the pitch. Gapers and Jerry's are leaning back and having absolutely zero control of what's coming their way, and they do it out of fear and a general human reflex when they don't know wtf they're doing. S hit, it's the same when I'm on a steep pitched roof...lean 'down' the roof for grip. Lean up if you want your feet to slip out and an immanent ride off the roof to come faster than you know what happened.

I position myself on the bike, relative to the grade/pitch the same way I do on my board. Nothing good is coming from getting in the backseat. At least as far as bikes, boards and skis go 

***S hit, I didn't even notice the last comment of your post where you're making fun of a tele-skier in the midst of settling down into a transition. Not to mention, that was obviously a pic from the early 90's. Look at those skinny assed skis. Do you Tele? Kind of wondering if you could hang with that guy, you on modern shaped skis, free-heeling (or hell, even Alpine) it down a steep face regardless of how awkward that pics timing makes him look. Making fun of that dude, doesn't have quite the effect you're hoping for to people that know wtf it is that he's actually doing. Dude can probably _still _hand you your ass, and I'd bet he's a washed up old drunk these days. Just sayin.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I use a 170mm SDG Tellis, but rarely do I use that amount. Mostly use around <120mm. On this photo you'll notice the blue collar on my seatpost, this is a product that we call the "Dropper Stopper". The DS can be adjusted to stop the drop at any height and also works as a seat height keeper in the case that you happen to blow out your dropper when it won't stay upon a ride. this will let you finish your ride.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> I use a 170mm SDG Tellis, but rarely do I use that amount. Mostly use around <120mm. On this photo you'll notice the blue collar on my seatpost, this is a product that we call the "Dropper Stopper". The DS can be adjusted to stop the drop at any height and also works as a seat height keeper in the case that you happen to blow out your dropper when it won't stay upon a ride. this will let you finish your ride.
> View attachment 2002628


Nice Turner. I still have my 08 Spot that my 13 yo son is riding. Shoot, if I could have fit it with 29” wheels, I’d probably still be riding it. Lol.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

kapusta said:


> On my 29er with a 170mm dropper, I'm pretty sure my butt hits the rear tire before the saddle gets in the way (I have stubby legs on a med frame).


^ That is mentioned frequently… but the reason I use a 210mm (aside from a little jump style) is because I can stay “in” the bike and have additional room for heavy compression, lean angles, etc.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

….


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

On a steep trail, with the seat high, there's no way you can have enough weight on the rear wheel to have adequate braking.
Unless your seat is not that high.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cookieMonster said:


> You responded to _my_ post, not the other way around 😉. I didn’t call out anyone in particular.
> 
> My comment was directed at people who seem to still feel like riding with a high post is some kind of virtue and because they can do it, running a dropper isn’t necessary. I wagered that they simply haven’t been exposed to terrain where it matters too much.
> 
> ...


Sorry - second part wasn't directed at you. 

But yeah, I've been on plenty of terrain where I want my seat out of the way. But it's not something I'm likely to run into riding XC/trail.

And again, I have a 'modern' bike, and it has a dropper on it. I just almost never find a reason to use it and wouldn't miss it if/when it's gone.

I also don't 'high-post', as in run my seat up in dirt-roadie position. Depending on the trail system, it's some couple-few inches below that.
I'm not out trying to play Strava champ, nor am I out filming for an IG account. Just riding mostly the same trails I've been riding and building for 30 years or so.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jeremy3220 said:


> What I don't see are people on the trails shredding jumplines and DH trails with high posts.


No ****, that's what DJ and DH bikes are for. 

If someone stole all my other bikes and I had to use my trail bike for DH or DJ, I'd use my dropper (probably once at the beginning of the session). 

Actually, I'd more likely just go new bikes that are the right tools for the job.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cookieMonster said:


> There are lots of editions of Friday Fails with high-posters going over the bars though…🤣🤣


That's funny, but IRL pretty much everyone I see on FF is running a dropper. 🤷‍♂️


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

EatsDirt said:


> I ride “DH“ trails on my “XC“ rides so it’s all the same to me, on the same bike.
> 
> Your DH bike saddle must be much lower then your trail bike, yea?
> 
> I‘m not trying to talk you into a dropper or lower seat, just trying to understand how you kind of insinuate that high-posting doesn’t have somewhat significant limitations - regardless of skill level. Stating the obvious, it takes someone of decent talent to high-post in demanding terrain… and I’m not questioning your abilities.


You don't need to talk me into either. 
I have a dropper (3 actually) and I ride more pump/jump on BMX or DJ bikes than trail these days and DHed a ton bitd, so I know exactly what a low seat does. 

I never said anything about 'high posting' anything. Having your seat jacked up to the sky like some TdF wannabe while riding the trails around here makes no sense to me.
I just don't find I want to dick around with my seat height a bunch while riding. Could care less if someone else does.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

rod9301 said:


> On a steep trail, with the seat high, there's no way you can have enough weight on the rear wheel to have adequate braking.
> Unless your seat is not that high.
> 
> Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


I disagree. Sorta.

The issue with high posts is not that you can’t get your weight back. I can sit on my rear wheel with my seat up.

The issue is getting really _low_ without _having_ to get really far back.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

rod9301 said:


> Unless your seat is not that high.


Bingo.


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## mtbdudex (Jan 13, 2020)

Btw, I just posted in the “dream bike thread ” this Scott Spark. If I do buy it spring 2023, I’ll report back on how I like / use it’s Fox dropper post .










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

jeremy3220 said:


> Maybe someone will share a video of them high posting A line or similar.


It is sure great that droppers were invented. A Line was created in 2001 and just sat there unused until they came along.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

MattiThundrrr said:


> It is sure great that droppers were invented. A Line was created in 2001 and just sat there unused until they came along.


I remember when you'd have to stop and manually raise your seat to 'high-post' position between every table and berm, which made it pretty much unpossible for anyone to ride DH.
Then, if you somehow got to the bottom with your seat still up, you would just have to fall over since getting on or off a bike is soooo challenging without a dropper. 

LOL


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

MattiThundrrr said:


> It is sure great that droppers were invented. A Line was created in 2001 and just sat there unused until they came along.


While I'm sure you thought this was witty typing it out...I said high posting which isn't dependent on the presence of a dropper.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

jeremy3220 said:


> While I'm sure you thought this was witty typing it out...I said high posting which isn't dependent on the presence of a dropper.


You missed the point. What I was illustrating was the lack of necessity of a dropper. It is a straw man argument to require videos of people "high posting" stuff. People didn't do that then, they just rode with the seat low. You could ride with the seat in the wrong position with a dropper too.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

MattiThundrrr said:


> It is a straw man argument to require videos of people "high posting" stuff.


No the comment I was responding to literally stated "If Slap, myself, or anyone else that high-posts...".


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jeremy3220 said:


> No the comment I was responding to literally stated "If Slap, myself, or anyone else that high-posts...".


Except I don't.

On a side note, "high-posting" is almost as stupid a term as 'acoustic bike'. 

No one here is now or ever has made an argument against other people choosing to twiddle their seatpost lever as much as they want.
It's only when someone dares to say "meh, I personally don't find much of a need to on the trails I typically ride" that the internet heroes and gear weenies come out rambling about "then you must only ride on sidewalks" and "well only because you have no idea how to actually ride" or "but how do you ride down 300' 90 degree slabs like I do every day"

It all kinda reminds me of when the internet all of sudden declared it was impossible to ride over so much as a pebble without wagon wheels.
And shortly thereafter it became impossible to ride in more than 1/2" of snow without 14" wide tires and hand-tents.
LOL Sure...okay...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

jeremy3220 said:


> Right because there's no question that droppers aren't a hindrance. Plenty of evidence of riders shredding with droppers. What I don't see are people on the trails shredding jumplines and DH trails with high posts. Other than maybe pro riders I don't even see videos of riders shredding with high posts. Maybe someone will share a video of them high posting A line or similar.


There's the hypocritical virtue that we high posters are getting accused of again. No one is saying anyone is 'shredding downhill' courses with a high post. It would be utter moronacy to do so. It's equally moronic to move the qualifier to that extent to make an argument for why you think that high posts are worthy of your sneer. 

I wouldn't raise the seat on my 20" jumper, Jeremy. Different place, different use. Thus, it's not being yammered about in an XC/general trail riding setting.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

All BMX riding and racing has been cancelled immediately until someone figures out a way to fit a 200mm dropper post on a 20".
Please throw away your bikes. I hear you can't even pedal them with the seat so low. WTF?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> No ****, that's what DJ and DH bikes are for.


This. 

These guys are making arguments that are about the same as being critical of people using mountain bikes to race the Tour de France. If the goal posts have to be moved that far to support your argument, it's a bit ridiculous. Obviously in those situations a low seat is imperative.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Of course it did. I came from the early days of the sport and was an early adopter of the Hite-Rite. I did quit using the HR in the early 90's though. The HR was the inspiration for me coming up with the dropper idea much later. I was using a HR in the late 90's because the idea of dropping the saddle was on my mind without having to stop, undue the QR, make sure the saddle was straight and then stopping again to raise it making sure I was at the proper height. I knew there had to be a better way......the rest is history, although it does bother me that Gravity Dropper gets the credit for the invention of the dropper.


Ya, even in the early 90’s people started to realize that getting your weight lower allows for safer and faster handling, cornering and overall maneuvering. How there are people today still don’t understand the benifits of getting your weight low is baffling. 

I had Hite Rite back in the 90’s as well. Loved the idea, but like suspension back then, needed refinement.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Having your seat jacked up to the sky like some TdF wannabe while riding the trails around here makes no sense to me.


That's what I was fishing for.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

rod9301 said:


> On a steep trail, with the seat high, there's no way you can have enough weight on the rear wheel to have adequate braking.
> Unless your seat is not that high.
> 
> Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


That sure helped the goober that got his weight way back in the next state, and grabbed as much back brake as he could in that video that Curveball posted. Scared sh itless, zero control, and piled it up just at the bottom of the cameras view. I would have rolled down that, with my seat up, no problem whatsoever. It's called technique, and the ability to use ones brakes like your hands are more than deli sausages, and the nerves connecting them to your brain are more than a piece of string with cans on either end.


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

Geeze, you guys are starting to read like anti-vaxxers or that the election was stolen.

As others commented, 20 pages about dropper post viability? We all know they work and add to the handling capabilities of downhill riding along with a couple other lowered seat benefits. 
On my 29er hardtail gravel bike / bikepacker, I use gravel drop bars. I have been riding this bike a lot on steep downhill single tracks. Before my dropper seat post I descended a lot slower, felt like a slug, because my butt was stuck raised on the post with back bent forward and down to the drops so I could keep my hands firmly on the brake levers. I drop the seat post push back behind the seat, and get my belly a couple inches above the dropped seat. I can almost keep up with full suspension flat bar riders. (My problem with this bike is it's long wheelbase and tight sharp burms. Sometimes I just can't make the corners at a decent speed, and I can't get the back to kick around like on my full suspension bike.)


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> That sure helped the goober that got his weight way back in the next state, and grabbed as much back brake as he could in that video that Curveball posted. Scared sh itless, zero control, and piled it up just at the bottom of the cameras view. _I would have rolled down that, with my seat up, no problem whatsoever._ It's called technique, and the ability to use ones brakes like your hands are more than deli sausages, and the nerves connecting them to your brain are more than a piece of string with cans on either end.


That roll is a whole lot steeper and farther than you can see in the video. GoPro effect and all that. Going down that with your seatpost up would very likely lead to serious injury. The crashed rider had poor braking control and didn't get low and centered on the bike as he should have.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

TiJoe said:


> As others commented, 20 pages about dropper post viability? We all know they work and add to the handling capabilities of downhill riding along with a couple other lowered seat benefits.
> On my 29er hardtail gravel bike / bikepacker, I use gravel drop bars. I have been riding this bike a lot on steep downhill single tracks. Before my dropper seat post I descended a lot slower, felt like a slug, because my butt was stuck raised on the post with back bent forward and down to the drops so I could keep my hands firmly on the brake levers. I drop the seat post push back behind the seat, and get my belly a couple inches above the dropped seat. I can almost keep up with full suspension flat bar riders. (My problem with this bike is it's long wheelbase and tight sharp burms. Sometimes I just can't make the corners at a decent speed, and I can't get the back to kick around like on my full suspension bike.)


Yeah, but let's see you run Rampage with those bars!
You're obviously doing it all wrong. 



In other news, the topic of this thread, by the way, is NOT "Dropper Post Viability". 
So there's that.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> That roll is a whole lot steeper and farther than you can see in the video. GoPro effect and all that. Going down that with your seatpost up would very likely lead to serious injury. The crashed rider had poor braking control and didn't get low and centered on the bike as he should have.


Totally agree with most of what you are saying here. And believe me Curveball, I'm not meaning to be mocking you at all. I agree that there's GoPro effect on that, but am going to take your assertion that going down that with a post up would lead to serious injury with a grain of salt.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

singletrackmack said:


> How there are people today still don’t understand the benifits of getting your weight low is baffling.


Another one who can't seem to read what people actually say. LOL


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Curveball said:


> That roll is a whole lot steeper and farther than you can see in the video. GoPro effect and all that. Going down that with your seatpost up would very likely lead to serious injury. The crashed rider had poor braking control and didn't get low and centered on the bike as he should have.


Maybe not, maybe so, but there is really nothing I run into these days on an XC ride that remotely resembles the features on that trail, and I'm willing to be that's the case for most (not all) others as well. I know it's the case for pretty much every rider in these parts.

Sorry, on second glance at the video, some of that stuff does like like some stuff around here that I wouldn't shy away from with a fixed post.
Or 26" wheels LOL.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> Maybe not, maybe so, but there is really nothing I run into these days on an XC ride that remotely resembles the features on that trail, and I'm willing to be that's the case for most (not all) others as well. I know it's the case for pretty much every rider in these parts.


I was responding directly to Jocribs.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> Totally agree with most of what you are saying here. And believe me Curveball, I'm not meaning to be mocking you at all. I agree that there's GoPro effect on that, but am going to take your assertion that going down that with a post up would lead to serious injury with a grain of salt.


I would love to see someone try it. I can't imagine it going very well.

What part of the country do you ride?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

singletrackmack said:


> How there are people today still don’t understand the benifits of getting your weight low is baffling.





slapheadmofo said:


> Another one who can't seem to read what people actually say. LOL


Plus, assuming what other peoples threshold for 'low' actually is. I think this is a really important point that people need stop and think about. 

From riding with others, and hearing what people are saying about where and what they'll use a dropper for etc, I am positive that my feeling comfortably low for a given situation is a lot higher than a lot of other peoples. It's all fine and good.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> I would love to see someone try it. I can't imagine it going very well.
> 
> What part of the country do you ride?


Sigh, I'm in Colorado curently Curveball.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> Sigh, I'm in Colorado curently Curveball.


I think you'd have to experience some of the very steep terrain here in Washington to actually understand where I'm coming from. It's likely very, very different from what you're used to.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> I think you'd have to experience some of the very steep terrain here in Washington to actually understand where I'm coming from. It's likely very, very different from what you're used to.


I just went back and watch that. I have a good ability to gauge what I'm looking at by looking what's around it, the trees etc. I work with angles and visualizing on homes. I can see things pretty well. I still gave it the benefit of the doubt because the GoPro effect can make things look lesser than they are, but that's factoring not having other ways to gauge what it's showing you. Looking at it from the side at around 2:20 confirms what I said before and I will stand solidly by what I stated already. I would have no problem rolling down that with my post up. You are trying to infer that it vert. It's not. It's not even 45 degrees. If a person is going to get broken off rolling down that, they're just in over their heads. It's not the bike or whatever sticks out of it that your ass gets flirty with.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

jochribs said:


> You are incorrect, Evasive. Please don't tell me what there "just isn't" the ability to do **(that really sounds Bushwacker-esque). My bike moves side to side quite easily, and I do it _*absolutely all the time*_. I lean the bike heavily through turns if I need to and transition quickly. Think about it. I tend to enter the turns that need it, with my inside foot forward, or forward and up, or somewhere in that clock position range. On my mountain bike, I switch up non-stop as I flow through turns. With my inside foot forward, knees flexed and hips and and knees pointing/driving towards the turn, I lean the bike easily. I can practically lay the bike down if I want to, tipping the bars by pushing the inside bar down, staying on the outside of the bike with pressure on the tires. I wouldn't be surprised if I have a split second of countersteer in that too. I'd wager I'm doing the same thing anyone turning aggressively with a dropper is doing. A lot of times I'm doing it better than the people that I am on the trail with, catching people that have dialed, decked out whips and their droppers down, and their form is utter s hit. There are a lot of folks out there with terrible form, and this *isn't*_* because* _of the dropper, but the dropper has allowed them to keep using that terrible form, and doing _*relatively *_well despite that. However, to be a high poster, *and be proficient *you've got to have your s hit together as far as form is concerned.
> 
> Another point you might have missed is that I have never been one to 'get behind' the saddle. I stay 'over' it. I might be above it, and _behind_ slightly, but I'm never behind it where if I tried to move forward in that plane that I'd catch myself on the seat if you can picture that or if it's clear enough, which is what I'm gathering you mean by "behind the saddle". That's not uncomfortable to me or feeling anywhere near going 'over the bars'. Never has been... 26", 100mm stem and 72 degrees, or 29", 80mm and 67. Getting back and pushing forward was and is ridiculous. My arms hold my upper body (head/shoulders, that mass area) in a low, elbows flexed position. My body tends to stay in a position where I a more or less perpendicular to pitch, if you visualize the bike, and my body above the two wheels. Moving my mass forward and back somewhere in that area depending on what is going on with the terrain.
> 
> ...


What a weird post. You're so amped up to argue that you missed my point and invent others. You've already mentioned that your bike doesn't have particularly 'modern' geometry, despite being a 2020. In particular it's not a very steep STA in comparison to a lot of bikes on the market now.

I'm making fun of a tele skier?  I know exactly what's going on in that photo, because 1) I do tele (admittedly less these days) and 2) I own that book. It's not a picture from the early 90s. The book came out in 1978; that edition came out in 1983. The point you missed in your rush to fight over it is that he's pretty close to the limit of the performance envelope for leather boots and skinny skies. And while excellent skiers developed advanced techniques to push the limits of that gear, it wouldn't be an especially challenging slope with modern equipment and techniques. Techniques that we learned to ride older mountain bikes weren't necessarily the best way to ride bikes offroad - they were the best way to ride _those _bikes offroad.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Maybe not, maybe so, but there is really nothing I run into these days on an XC ride that remotely resembles the features on that trail, and I'm willing to be that's the case for most (not all) others as well. I know it's the case for pretty much every rider in these parts.
> 
> Sorry, on second glance at the video, some of that stuff does like like some stuff around here that I wouldn't shy away from with a fixed post.
> Or 26" wheels LOL.
> ...


Since I'm annoyed by all the different categories people like to put rides into - like XC - I'm gonna return the favor and call this _mid-posting_. No wonder you don't need a dropper.

Apparently I'm a TdF wannabee winching my way up to the steeps, as are most riders here.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

evasive said:


> What a weird post. You're so amped up to argue that you missed my point and invent others. You've already mentioned that your bike doesn't have particularly 'modern' geometry, despite being a 2020. In particular it's not a very steep STA in comparison to a lot of bikes on the market now.
> 
> I'm making fun of a tele skier?  I know exactly what's going on in that photo, because 1) I do tele (admittedly less these days) and 2) I own that book. It's not a picture from the early 90s. The book came out in 1978; that edition came out in 1983. The point you missed in your rush to fight over it is that he's pretty close to the limit of the performance envelope for leather boots and skinny skies. And while excellent skiers developed advanced techniques to push the limits of that gear, it wouldn't be an especially challenging slope with modern equipment and techniques. Techniques that we learned to ride older mountain bikes weren't necessarily the best way to ride bikes offroad - they were the best way to ride _those _bikes offroad.


***You were making fun of us, at the expense of that tele-skier. 

The idea that a bike with a 74.5 seat angle is not steep enough is just going to the realm of ridiculousness. Dear god. I can't wait until XC bikes have 64 degree head angles.  Disqualifying my bike in order to attempt to validate your point is ridiculous. Frankly, the steeper the SA's get, the slacker the HA's get. So it's really kind of a moot point for you to stick on. 

Secondly, if you have no idea how well I can handle my bike on given terrain with it's current iteration (which is much steeper and slacker than that of the bikes so many claimed from the roof tops were 'unsafe') then you're just moving the goal posts in order to have the definitive last word on the matter, while then claiming any response to you is an argument. What would you define your initial post to me as then? An authoritative lesson? That's the definition of audacity. Get a reasonable grip.

Seriously. I ride with and around people with your vibe of 'get with the times' all the time. They are NEVER that good. The people that are that good, just STFU and ride.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Meeting expectation, a thread discussing droppers has devolved into a d!ck-measuring contest.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Another one who can't seem to read what people actually say. LOL


Not sure what all the commenters on this thread are saying, but was referring to the OPs original comment…


jspell said:


> …never saw the need for one.


sounds like someone who doesn’t understand how much of an impact getting your weight low can have on all aspects of riding from cornering to climbing.
If they did, they would see the need to get as low as possible which can’t be done while riding without a dropper. Of course you can stop, get off the bike and lower the seat when needed, but if you see the need to do that, then how can you not see the benifit of a dropper?


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Eric F said:


> Meeting expectation, a thread discussing droppers has devolved into a d!ck-measuring contest.


Clearly, the dropper crowd has dicks so big they need the seat out of the way for it.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> I just went back and watch that. I have a good ability to gauge what I'm looking at by looking what's around it, the trees etc. I work with angles and visualizing on homes. I can see things pretty well. I still gave it the benefit of the doubt because the GoPro effect can make things look lesser than they are, but that's factoring not having other ways to gauge what it's showing you. Looking at it from the side at around 2:20 confirms what I said before and I will stand solidly by what I stated already. I would have no problem rolling down that with my post up. You are trying to infer that it vert. It's not. It's not even 45 degrees. If a person is going to get broken off rolling down that, they're just in over their heads. It's not the bike or whatever sticks out of it that your ass gets flirty with.


Where did I ever infer that roll is vertical? I know damn well that it's not vertical and never said as much. 

Do I have to promise to pay you in cryptocurrency* to come out here and ride that trail?


*Slap will get the reference.

Better yet, let's go ride Squamish together and see what you can do with a high post position.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> Clearly, the dropper crowd has dicks so big they need the seat out of the way or it.


Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you need a dropper to ride steep terrain, just that you need to lower the post to do so effectively.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> Where did I ever infer that roll is vertical? I know damn well that it's not vertical and never said as much.
> 
> Do I have to promise to pay you in cryptocurrency* to come out here and ride that trail?
> 
> ...


You didn't say that roll was vertical. No, you're right there, but it does come across that you're inferring that it's brutally steep, hence why I said that...but that was an embellishment of what you said on my part. Sorry man. 

I get the Bushwacker reference  . All good. 

However, now you're changing from what you exampled in the video to following you around Squamish on my DC bike in order to dismiss that I'm saying _what you showed as examples is not a problem. _Stop moving the goal posts Curveball. Accept that what you _*showed *_didn't prove your point to me, and stop finding _sicker_ terrain to qualify your statement. Fair enough?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

EatsDirt said:


> Since I'm annoyed by all the different categories people like to put rides into - like XC - I'm gonna return the favor and call this _mid-posting_. No wonder you don't need a dropper.


Yeah, I still use "XC" as a catch-all term out of old habit. Not talking racing by any mean, just trail riding. I don't do big drops or ride big BC-style features. Just not something I'm likely to run into around here, same with long descents, etc. We've got a lot of smaller ups and downs, twists and turns, and glacial debris to mess with, but nothing you're going to see anybody trying to win the IG challenge on. Just typical New England chunk. I find trying to reposition my seat every 3 seconds is more of a PIA than it's worth.

"Mid Posting" sounds about right, or at least a few inches below roadie height anyway.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> You didn't say that roll was vertical. No, you're right there, but it does come across that you're inferring that it's brutally steep, hence why I said that...but that was an embellishment of what you said on my part. Sorry man.
> 
> I get the Bushwacker reference  . All good.
> 
> However, now you're changing from what you exampled in the video to following you around Squamish on my DC bike in order to dismiss that I'm saying _what you showed as examples is not a problem. _Stop moving the goal posts Curveball. Accept that what you _*showed *_didn't prove your point to me, and stop finding _sicker_ terrain to qualify your statement. Fair enough?


Sure, I'll drop Squamish out of it.

I still stand by my assertion that a lot of the trails at Galbraith Mountain, where that video was made, practically require a lower seat. If you see it otherwise, then so be it.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

jochribs said:


> Clearly, the dropper crowd has dicks so big they need the seat out of the way or it.


Well, that definitely wouldn't be my reason. I just like the benefits a dropper offers, including times that are just for fun (a lower COG on fast wide-open descents is a blast). You could say I'm down with the dropper.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> Yeah, I still use "XC" as a catch-all term out of old habit. Not talking racing by any mean, just trail riding. I don't do big drops or ride big BC-style features. Just not something I'm likely to run into around here, same with long descents, etc. We've got a lot of smaller ups and downs, twists and turns, and glacial debris to mess with, but nothing you're going to see anybody trying to win the IG challenge on. Just typical New England chunk. I find trying to reposition my seat every 3 seconds is more of a PIA than it's worth.
> 
> "Mid Posting" sounds about right, or at least a few inches below roadie height anyway.


I refer to XC much the same way that you do.

The way that you describe your terrain and "mid posting", I can see your approach working pretty well.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you need a dropper to ride steep terrain, just that you need to lower the post to do so effectively.


I can't even lower mine. I've got tape around it that I put there to see if there was any slipping at a particular torque...and I've never taken it off 😂


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

I think if the armies of hyperbolic straw men had to fight the dropper side would lose handedly. Funny thing is these sides only exist on this forum, for me at least. I couldn't tell you who had a dropper and who didn't on my last group ride.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Eric F said:


> Well, that definitely wouldn't be my reason. I just like the benefits a dropper offers. You could say I'm down with the dropper.


I know that's what you're saying Eric. Figured you'd get a chuckle out of the joke.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> I think if the armies of hyperbolic straw men had to fight the dropper side would lose handedly. Funny thing is these sides only exist on this forum, for me at least. I couldn't tell you who had a dropper and who didn't on my last group ride.


I really respect you for this comment


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

jochribs said:


> Dear god. I can't wait until XC bikes have 64 degree head angles.


Your wish has been granted...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> Sure, I'll drop Squamish out of it.
> 
> I still stand by my assertion that a lot of the trails at Galbraith Mountain, where that video was made, practically require a lower seat. If you see it otherwise, then so be it.


I respect your assertion. I have no problem with it at all. I do think that you'd be pretty surprised by me. People often are.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Eric F said:


> Your wish has been granted...
> View attachment 2002841


My eyes!! Make it stop! 

Joking aside, that's not an XC bike. It's a rowdy hardtail intended for steeps.

****And oh s hit!!! It doesn't have a dropper! Better photoshop one on there quick Eric or this thread will melt down.

Kidding folks! 😂


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Just wanted to drop this here.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Curveball said:


> Sure, I'll drop Squamish out of it.
> 
> I still stand by my assertion that a lot of the trails at Galbraith Mountain, where that video was made, practically require a lower seat. If you see it otherwise, then so be it.


If I ever find my way to either of them, I'm 100% sure I would agree and happily slam my seat. 
But as far as pogoing the thing around every few feet just to go around a corner, then raise if for 3 pedal strokes, then drop it again for a basic up-n-over, then raise it for another 2 pedal strokes, then drop if again for the next corner, then repeat that silly dance for the entire ride...yeah, no. It's silly IMHO. 

Here's an example of a what typical "XC" trail around here looks like just for reference (not my video).


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

jeremy3220 said:


> Plenty of evidence of riders shredding with droppers. What I don't see are people on the trails shredding jumplines and DH trails with high posts. Other than maybe pro riders I don't even see videos of riders shredding with high posts. Maybe someone will share a video of them high posting A line or similar.


Ask and ye shall receive:






edit - looks like he "cheated" and dropped his saddle into the frame.

Here are some high post whips for your viewing pleasure. With dropbars even


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

That is some sweet mid-post trail.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

cassieno said:


> Ask and ye shall receive:


Pro rider and his seat looks really low.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

jeremy3220 said:


> Pro rider and his seat looks really low.


he is an Enduro rider and doesn't have the flexibility to go any higher I am sure :d


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> If I ever find my way to either of them, I'm 100% sure I would agree and happily slam my seat.
> But as far as pogoing the thing around every few feet just to go around a corner, then raise if for 3 pedal strokes, then drop it again for a basic up-n-over, then raise it for another 2 pedal strokes, then drop if again for the next corner, then repeat that silly dance for the entire ride...yeah, no. It's silly IMHO.
> 
> Here's an example of a what typical "XC" trail around here looks like just for reference (not my video).


1. Your written description was pretty good.
2. That riding looks like a heap of fun.
3. As I thought, I agree that constantly raising and lowering the saddle on that terrain would be more trouble than it's worth.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

cassieno said:


> Ask and ye shall receive:


Pidcock is a badass. Love that. 

That Mary commentator saying "I don't know if doing that when in second place is the right time to do that" is just, god, I don't have words to express how sick that magoo makes me.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> That is some sweet mid-post trail.


So much of it around here.
Here's some old favorite stuff I helped build 15+ years ago.

FWIW, I see riders with droppers regularly skip or screw up stuff that a lot of us have been 'highposting' cleanly since v-brakes were new.
Hell, we scratched in the 'cover shot' roll you see below well before 2000, except it use to shoot you into a 8' tall A-frame.
But hey, "doing it wrong". LOL


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> _If I ever find my way to either of them_, I'm 100% sure I would agree and happily slam my seat.


If you can ever make it out here to WA, I'll show you around the good trails and buy us some good beer.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

I am so jealous of New England trails, and Appalachian jank. I have none of it by me, and people are STILL making ride arounds.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> 1. Your written description was pretty good.
> 2. That riding looks like a heap of fun.
> 3. As I thought, I agree that constantly raising and lowering the saddle on that terrain would be more trouble than it's worth.


It really is a heap of fun Curveball. 

There's a network here in Colorado (Buena Vista) that we hit about a month ago that was more riding on rocks than it was on trail. Really technical. The wife wasn't having so much fun, but my son and I were so happy inside. It really reminded us of the tech we would normally ride back home. We didn't have to talk about it, it's like our spirits were just elevated and we both just would be in a zone following each others wheels until we thought, "s hit, we have to wait for Mom!" 😂. I wish it was closer. I'd ride it all the time. Just a really nice break from the flow horses hit that is absolutely everywhere.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> I am so jealous of New England trails, and Appalachian jank. I have none of it by me, and people are STILL making ride arounds.


I'm sorry to hear that man. That type of riding is what I feel made me into a rider that can go anywhere. It's dying out. Everytime some do-gooders get their hands on stuff that's still good, it generally gets 'flowed'.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Curveball said:


> If you can ever make it out here to WA, I'll show you around the good trails and buy us some good beer.


You cover the trails, I'll cover the beer.

And I'll make sure my dropper is working.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> I am so jealous of New England trails, and Appalachian jank. I have none of it by me, and people are STILL making ride arounds.


Then they go home, log in, and talk **** about how great they are because they bought the latest gizmo.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Then they go home, log in, and talk **** about how great they are because they bought the latest gizmo.


Exactly. 

Amazing what you can do when you don't listen to the hype of "you need this", or "your bike isn't slack enough" or "that's not safe". 

Oh really? Didn't realize that when I'm actually doing it.

I think the way that this marketing BS works is these talking heads on the dole keep waxing philosophic reviews that glorify a degree pushed here, a reach tweaked there, and before you know it, you're looking at your bike like it's missing something, and this new effing BS is going to solve that missing piece of the equation, when in reality it isn't missing an effing thing, and the piece of the equation is the rider that needs tweaking. 

Before you know it, people are looking at the bike that EricF posted or god forbid in the gravel world, the Chamois Hagar like it's a good idea.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

We just don't have exposed rocks here, at least not predominantly. Its not a flow trail problem. The sanitization thing is crazy though. There are some roots and a few chunky sections, but mostly its just flattish midwestern woods. The people "fixing" things are not serious riders. There are a ton of filthy casuals and dirt roadies about. I have heard the trail called bumpy before. Yes, yes its a mountain bike trail. It's bumpier than a sidewalk. But in the sphere of "mountain bike trails" it ain't bumpy.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> We just don't have exposed rocks here, at least not predominantly. Its not a flow trail problem. The sanitization thing is crazy though. There are some roots and a few chunky sections, but mostly its just flattish midwestern woods. The people "fixing" things are not serious riders. There are a ton of filthy casuals and dirt roadies about. I have heard the trail called bumpy before. Yes, yes its a mountain bike trail. It's bumpier than a sidewalk. But in the sphere of "mountain bike trails" it ain't bumpy.


But do they have dropper posts? 
That's the true test of a rider I hear.

Some more recent 'high-post' stuff I've been working on for a few years now in my 'hood. 
It's really challenging to get it right, since I have no idea what a low seat does or doesn't do. 🤡 
(My kid obviously doesn't either.)


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> We just don't have exposed rocks here, at least not predominantly. Its not a flow trail problem. The sanitization thing is crazy though. There are some roots and a few chunky sections, but mostly its just flattish midwestern woods. The people "fixing" things are not serious riders. There are a ton of filthy casuals and dirt roadies about. I have heard the trail called bumpy before. Yes, yes its a mountain bike trail. It's bumpier than a sidewalk. But in the sphere of "mountain bike trails" it ain't bumpy.


Those people are the absolute worst, and invariably are the very sorts that insinuate themselves into positions of making decisions about how things should be. My MIL is one such person. Not in terms of riding, but other things. A real power-hungry, bean-counting, risk-assessing nit wit. People that are afraid of their own shadows should just keep to themselves.


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## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

How about the people carrying fallen trees onto the trails. Trying to make them unrideable dog parks or whatever their motive is. But just end up making the trail more fun.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

EatsDirt said:


> I know, I know… this isn’t the first time you’ve mentioned that you’ve been everywhere and done everything, and your program is the best! 🤣
> 
> You really should find someone to take you on a legit tech tour down the hill instead of coming out to ride what are probably the regions most mundane trails at OTH - as you mentioned in another thread.


I'm assuming OTH is Lake Vail, Temecula or that race near Irvine Lake. I've never rode or raced at any of those areas. It's just not an area to drive to. I grew up riding that area in the 80s and 90s. Skyline and all the Truck Trails. I know what's out there and the potential of what's possibly new out there. The number one factor that keeps me from riding down there is the heat. I'm susceptible to it after two severe ER visits with heat stroke in the Kern Valley.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

suburbanassault said:


> How about the people carrying fallen trees onto the trails. Trying to make them unrideable dog parks or whatever their motive is. But just end up making the trail more fun.


I'm not touching this one. Last time I did, it turned into WW3 and I was educated that in order to do those things I needed to be riding a 90's Wahoo  

😂


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> Then they go home, log in, and talk **** about how great they are because they bought the latest gizmo.


The consumerism disease.

I kid you not, a couple of decades ago, my friend and I went for a hike up in the North Cascades and there was a group of "hikers" hanging out at the trailhead talking loudly about the latest gear that they bought from REI.

We returned from our hike several hours later and they were _still_ there at the trailhead looking very clean and discussing their gear. They never even hiked anywhere.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


>


So is this an example of what you high-post?

Sorry, I can't keep up.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Curveball said:


> The consumerism disease.
> 
> I kid you not, a couple of decades ago, my friend and I went for a hike up in the North Cascades and there was a group of "hikers" hanging out at the trailhead talking loudly about the latest gear that they bought from REI.
> 
> We returned from our hike several hours later and they were _still_ there at the trailhead looking very clean and discussing their gear. They never even hiked anywhere.


This happened to me hiking up to Missouri Lakes here in Colorado because I was wearing Vans hightops. Some little frat pissass looks at me and says "interesting hiking footwear". I wanted to drop my 40+ lb pack and grab him by his hair and shirt and run him into a tree. Asshat had a little water bottle in his hand and some boots fitting for hiking the PCT or the Appalachian trail, end to end. Unfortnately, that type of anal-fissure with a face is highly common here. Tons of tude, tons of condescension, short as hell on actual ability.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

kapusta said:


> So is this an example of what you high-post?
> 
> Sorry, I can't keep up.


I believe he said mid-post. Which seems like a good approach.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

jochribs said:


> Asshat had a little water bottle in his hand and some boots fitting for hiking the PCT


So if I understand correctly, you judged his ability by the gear he was using? Or did he just pop out of his 4Runner at the trail head to take a few snaps in front of the sign?


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## mtbdudex (Jan 13, 2020)

500
500
This thread is gonna make it!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

fly4130 said:


> You know what, I plum forgot to bring my camera today. I took out my hardtail and left the dropper up in places I would normally put it down. Sometimes it rode the same as down, sometimes the saddle got in the way. I prefer to have the option and like the freedom of not having the saddle in the way. But since I am posting this and not dead from "high seat-post syndrome" I guess not having a dropper works too.





jochribs said:


> This happened to me hiking up to Missouri Lakes here in Colorado because I was wearing Vans hightops. Some little frat pissass looks at me and says "interesting hiking footwear". I wanted to drop my 40+ lb pack and grab him by his hair and shirt and run him into a tree. Asshat had a little water bottle in his hand and some boots fitting for hiking the PCT or the Appalachian trail, end to end. Unfortnately, that type of anal-fissure with a face is highly common here. Tons of tude, tons of condescension, short as hell on actual ability.


I remember riding a pretty gnarly trail years ago. And as this guy coming the other direction on the trail, passes my buddy and I, I say to this guy “Damn, you’re doing this trail on a ten speed.” His response “cycle cross”, “cycle cross dude”. Lol. I’m still convinced by those skinny tires, that he was on a ten speed bike. Lol. It was actually impressive but to this day looked rough.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

kapusta said:


> So is this an example of what you high-post?
> 
> Sorry, I can't keep up.





Curveball said:


> I believe he said mid-post. Which seems like a good approach.


This. LOL.


But yeah, that's what generally passes for XC around here, and is mainly what I ride and enjoy.
I don't find I need to constantly dick with my seat in order to manage just fine; I actually find doing so to be distraction that takes away from my enjoyment of the trail. 

Before someone starts whining - I'm not telling anyone else how they should do it. That's just how I choose to roll. 
If someone wants to shift gears every 5 seconds and pogo around on their seat every 3 seconds, have fun.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

jochribs said:


> ***You were making fun of us, at the expense of that tele-skier.
> 
> The idea that a bike with a 74.5 seat angle is not steep enough is just going to the realm of ridiculousness. Dear god. I can't wait until XC bikes have 64 degree head angles.  Disqualifying my bike in order to attempt to validate your point is ridiculous. Frankly, the steeper the SA's get, the slacker the HA's get. So it's really kind of a moot point for you to stick on.
> 
> ...


Settle down Francis. Take a deep breath and read. First you claimed I was making fun of the tele skier. Nope. Now you say I’m making fun of you at the expense of the tele skier. Again, nope. You imagine that I’m saying that your STA isn’t steep “enough”. Again, no- just that it’s not as steep as some. Not every comparison is a value judgement. You imagine that I’m “disqualifying” your bike somehow, when what I was doing was pointing out that your experience on your bike is not my experience on mine.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> If someone wants to shift gears every 5 seconds and pogo around on their seat every 3 seconds, have fun.


There may be other ways to do it.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> So if I understand correctly, you judged his ability by the gear he was using? Or did he just pop out of his 4Runner at the trail head to take a few snaps in front of the sign?


No, Flyboy. I judged him based on his looking me up and down and firing off his effeminate comment. It was at that point that I assessed his prancerism. I was too busy enjoying my time with my wife, son, my good old racing buddy Joe R and his awesome girlfriend. Everyone in my group thought what an ass that prick was. This was Aug of 2020. 

Does my comment ruffle you up? Do you like wearing hiking boots and think less of those who forgo them? Why do you care to question my comment?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

What will be the highest post in this thread?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

evasive said:


> Settle down Francis. Take a deep breath and read. First you claimed I was making fun of the tele skier. Nope. Now you say I’m making fun of you at the expense of the tele skier. Again, nope. You imagine that I’m saying that your STA isn’t steep “enough”. Again, no- just that it’s not as steep as some. Not every comparison is a value judgement. You imagine that I’m “disqualifying” your bike somehow, when what I was doing was pointing out that your experience on your bike is not my experience on mine.


You sure like riding the fence as far as what you mean by your words. Take a stroll buddy. Not bothering with acknowledging you anymore at this point.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> There may be other ways to do it.


There's lots of ways to do it. 
Which is fine of course. 
On the rare larger group rides I find myself on, that seems to be a pretty popular method. People are flicking levers like they're going out of style, and it's definitely not making a lot of of them into any sort of trail ninjas.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Jayem said:


> What will be the highest post in this thread?


I'm thinking maybe #600 or so? What do you think? Should we place bets?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Jayem said:


> What will be the highest post in this thread?


Top spot for now..

.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Top spot for now..
> 
> .
> View attachment 2002879
> ...


Dude, top pic! There's no GoPro effect on that! Looks like your buddy is using his bike like it's a safety net for you 😂


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> Dude, top pic! There's no GoPro effect on that! Looks like your buddy is using his bike like it's a safety net for you 😂


Run out was actually to the left; had to make a little turn along the way down and it got steeper at that point.
There was way sketchier **** out there than that (still is).
Lynn Woods circa '98. LOL.

That little bridge in the second pic just ended abruptly to a ~3' drop.
Totally unpossible!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Run out was actually to the left; had to make a little turn along the way down and it got steeper at that point.
> There was way sketchier **** out there than that (still is).
> Lynn Woods circa '98. LOL.


I was thinking that about the runout after I looked at it for a second. Roll down and turn slightly left? That rock looks like it had great grip. Fun stuff man. You'd like the spot in Buena Vista I was talking about.

**Also, I see the Judy XC on there . My first fork upgrade. 500 bucks! About as much as the bike! LOL!!!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I used to ride Lynn a shitload bitd. Now I'm little too far away and a little too lazy. 
Honestly, that would be a place I'm sure I would find some use for a dropper post these days, even though I wouldn't be doing the jump lines and the biggest rolls.
But, all that stuff has been there much longer than droppers have been around and it's all been ridden a million times without them. 
This 'trail' has been in play since at least the mid 90's (for whoever commented that 'you must not have any challenging trails where you live LOL).


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Curveball said:


> I refer to XC much the same way that you do.
> 
> The way that you describe your terrain and "mid posting", I can see your approach working pretty well.


Agreed. I've found a similar scenario at places like Sedona.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> That little bridge in the second pic just ended abruptly to a ~3' drop.
> Totally unpossible!


Yes, unpossible! Because being in a gear that you can push to lift the front wheel while transitioning to standing to drop off level and touch rear wheel first was not a thing we did...or do. 😂 My post has a label affixed that says that is strictly verboten 😂.

Forget doing the same thing while climbing to get the front wheel up onto chunky ledges. If I followed what I'm told I'd drop the seat and SLAM the front wheel into it, or lean forward and angrily attempt to lift the front wheel up onto said step. No finesse. Hope for the best 😂. Git'er up there by gawd!! 

Seriously though. Riding chunky trails either taught us, or it punished us. Finesse was the way.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

All I see is a video of two dudes using droppers all the time and a pic of someone about to go OTB. 

Also, Lynn looks super awesome. An "if you can ride here you can ride anywhere" type place.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> ... and a pic of someone about to go OTB.


Serious question. Are you being serious, and does it look that way to you? No shame in your answer if so. I'm just trying to get a reference for what it is that you see there. If you're kidding, disregard.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Curveball said:


> If you can ever make it out here to WA, I'll show you around the good trails and buy us some good beer.


Hello there friend! 😉


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> I used to ride Lynn a shitload bitd. Now I'm little too far away and a little too lazy.
> Honestly, that would be a place I'm sure I would find some use for a dropper post these days, even though I wouldn't be doing the jump lines and the biggest rolls.
> But, all that stuff has been there much longer than droppers have been around and it's all been ridden a million times without them.
> This 'trail' has been in play since at least the mid 90's (for whoever commented that 'you must not have any challenging trails where you live LOL).


That looks like amazing terrain. FWIW, I don’t think I’d activate my dropper all that much on those trails — as it _would_ be a pain in the ass to raise it and drop it that often. I’d just leave it mostly down and remain standing for those short climbs.😉

I suspect what most of us are arguing about here is the result of having very different trails in our home locations. I don’t have anything like the trail in your video. We have tech like that, but it’s ALL on the way down (some moderate tech when the climbs are singletrack). While I do use my dropper often, it is not constantly. I can see how that would get absurd on trails like you posted and I’d probably be fine just leaving it 3” lower than road bike height.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

jochribs said:


> Are you being serious, and does it look that way to you?


Nah just crackin' wise. Doing my part to get to 600. I didn't ride that type of cool back in the day but I spent plenty of time high-postin' and mid-postin'. I am still alive, just happier with a low post and getting more motivated for a road trip someplace a bit more interesting.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> I used to ride Lynn a shitload bitd. Now I'm little too far away and a little too lazy.
> Honestly, that would be a place I'm sure I would find some use for a dropper post these days, even though I wouldn't be doing the jump lines and the biggest rolls.
> But, all that stuff has been there much longer than droppers have been around and it's all been ridden a million times without them.
> This 'trail' has been in play since at least the mid 90's (for whoever commented that 'you must not have any challenging trails where you live LOL).


BV is similar to that. Instead of pine needles between the rocks, it's this ball-bearing sized decomposed granite. I hate the decomposed granite, but the rocks are so good I forgive it.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fly4130 said:


> Nah just crackin' wise. Doing my part to get to 600. I didn't ride that type of cool back in the day but I spent plenty of time high-postin' and mid-postin'. I am still alive, just happier with a low post and getting more motivated for a road trip someplace a bit more interesting.


I hear that. I'm getting bored here in Co and wanting to either go home or find somewhere to road trip to. I'm stuck here for a bit though. 

We'll get to 600. Maybe a couple scratches and bumps, but we'll get there.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

fly4130 said:


> Nah just crackin' wise. Doing my part to get to 600. I didn't ride that type of cool back in the day but I spent plenty of time high-postin' and mid-postin'. I am still alive, just happier with a low post and getting more motivated for a road trip someplace a bit more interesting.


Come out this way, it's quite interesting here. 4k rides in the mountains. 2k steep tech rides in the foothills. Flow trails. Tech trails. Lots and lots of roots. Sweet loam that has unbelievable grip and cushion. Sloppy mud or moon dust.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> All I see is a video of two dudes using droppers all the time and a pic of someone about to go OTB.
> 
> Also, Lynn looks super awesome. An "if you can ride here you can ride anywhere" type place.


Yeah, like I said, I'm sure I'd find use for a dropper there now LOL!
But after many years of seeking out that sort of riding and putting a **** ton of miles on in it, I also find that "if you can ride here you can ride anywhere" still comes into play.
Specially now in my mid-50s where I'm just out cruising our regular trails. I really don't find the need to drop my seat for every little thing. Sorry internet. 🤷‍♂️

And I swear I didn't OTB. That time. 

High-posting on the hardtail, Vietnam trails in MA, ~04 or something...


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Curveball said:


> Come out this way, it's quite interesting here. 4k rides in the mountains. 2k steep tech rides in the foothills. Flow trails. Tech trails. Lots and lots of roots. Sweet loam that has unbelievable grip and cushion. Sloppy mud or moon dust.


Stop it, I can only get so e....nergized to plan a trip.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cookieMonster said:


> I suspect what most of us are arguing about here is the result of having very different trails in our home locations. I don’t have anything like the trail in your video. We have tech like that, but it’s ALL on the way down (some moderate tech when the climbs are singletrack).


Totally agree. Also has to do pretty specifically with how and where you ride, even in a general area. 
While I'm just doing my thing around here these days, you might be heading north a couple hours and riding in the real mountains regularly, which would be silly without a dropper.

(Gratuitous video of NH granite)


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

Lots of Blah blah blah, in the last 5 pages of postings. Unfortunately I am losing interest in this thread, despite some cool videos, so I just want to help it hit 500 posts.


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## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

jochribs said:


> This happened to me hiking up to Missouri Lakes here in Colorado because I was wearing Vans hightops. Some little frat pissass looks at me and says "interesting hiking footwear". I wanted to drop my 40+ lb pack and grab him by his hair and shirt and run him into a tree. Asshat had a little water bottle in his hand and some boots fitting for hiking the PCT or the Appalachian trail, end to end. Unfortnately, that type of anal-fissure with a face is highly common here. Tons of tude, tons of condescension, short as hell on actual ability.


LOL maybe he was looking for a recommendation for some lighter shoes. Vans are alright for fair weather hiking and biking IMO. Durable, comfortable, grippy waffle sole, the ultracush insole in the pro versions is nice...

Why do people get so enraged about gear comments that might not even be meant as insults anyway? Just the other day someone was mad about a roadie calling their hardtail a "nice dirtjumper". Dude got a compliment and got mad.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

suburbanassault said:


> LOL maybe he was looking for a recommendation for some lighter shoes. Vans are alright for fair weather hiking and biking IMO. Durable, comfortable, grippy waffle sole, the ultracush insole in the pro versions is nice...
> 
> Why do people get so enraged about gear comments that might not even be meant as insults anyway? Just the other day someone was mad about a roadie calling their hardtail a "nice dirtjumper". Dude got a compliment and got mad.


Is the pro version the skate shoe with the checkered tag? Those are vastly superior to the mall shoes. The mall shoes are fragile and have none of the durability that they had in the 70s and 80s.


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## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

milehi said:


> Is the pro version the skate shoe with the checkered tag? Those are vastly superior to the mall shoes. The mall shoes are fragile and have none of the durability that they had in the 70s and 80s.


Seems like those are the new(ish) "Skate Classics". Not sure if they are replacing the pros or are both going to coexist. Right now both kinds are still available. 

Haven't tried them myself. Good to hear they are good or at least better than the mall Vans.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> If I ever find my way to either of them, I'm 100% sure I would agree and happily slam my seat.
> But as far as pogoing the thing around every few feet just to go around a corner, then raise if for 3 pedal strokes, then drop it again for a basic up-n-over, then raise it for another 2 pedal strokes, then drop if again for the next corner, then repeat that silly dance for the entire ride...yeah, no. It's silly IMHO.
> 
> Here's an example of a what typical "XC" trail around here looks like just for reference (not my video).


If the stuff we ride in Tahoe were this flat, no need for a dropper.

But the wet rocks look scary. Are they limestone? 

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> Top spot for now..
> 
> .
> View attachment 2002879
> ...


Second picture, looks like the rear tire is going to fall off the bridge. 

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## Peetey (Jul 14, 2004)

Now 25 pages of a majority of riders who* did not* ditch their droppers and why they never will ditch them. This was not the question the OP asked. Maybe our pro-dropper buffalo riders can start their own thread about how rad and knarly they are and how bad ass they feel and look and why they can't ride without them.(or even be seen without one). Beam me up and out Scottie!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

milehi said:


> Is the pro version the skate shoe with the checkered tag? Those are vastly superior to the mall shoes. The mall shoes are fragile and have none of the durability that they had in the 70s and 80s.


I've owned multiple pairs of both. There is virtually no difference with exception of the removable insole. They both fall apart in a ridiculously short amount of time. I really love Vans, especially for how they feel to me on flat pedals, but the durability isn't why I'm buying them.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

rod9301 said:


> Second picture, looks like the rear tire is going to fall off the bridge.
> 
> Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


No it doesn't.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Peetey said:


> Maybe our pro-dropper buffalo riders can start their own thread


While this is a fair point would we have made it this far if that happened? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

What do you guys think about steeper seat angles? Just curious if there is a correlation here.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

d365 said:


> What do you guys think about steeper seat angles? Just curious if there is a correlation here.


Great question. Droppers allowed for seat tube angles to increase so you're not hanging off the back of the bike. Fortunately for the high posters their knees are so bad from old age that there's no need for them to buy a modern bike with a steep STA. They can just keep riding their grandpa bike.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mtbdudex said:


> 500
> 500
> This thread is gonna make it!!!
> 
> ...


I’m about to dropper this thread.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

How dare you dropped the dropper post? This sacrilege.

Nobody is allowed to abandon the dropper post. It is too useful gear. 

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

d365 said:


> What do you guys think about steeper seat angles? Just curious if there is a correlation here.


I like droppers and I like steep STAs.
Why would anyone ditch a perfectly good dropper?
That would make no sense.
I mean unless you're JRA in the 'hood.
=sParty


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

One of the first benefits I noticed (beyond the obvious) when I got my first dropper back in 2005 was that I could run the seat more forward (steeper effective STA).


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jeremy3220 said:


> Great question. Droppers allowed for seat tube angles to increase so you're not hanging off the back of the bike. Fortunately for the high posters their knees are so bad from old age that there's no need for them to buy a modern bike with a steep STA. They can just keep riding their grandpa bike.


Relax little fella. My trail bike's a 2021. 😜


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

rod9301 said:


> If the stuff we ride in Tahoe were this flat, no need for a dropper.
> 
> But the wet rocks look scary. Are they limestone?


That's my point. But obviously people feel the need to get all hardo about their little gizmos. 

It's granite. "Glacial erratics" I believe is the term. They're not always wet, thankfully.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

I think he was making a statement about how many kids your kids have, not the year of the bike.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> I think he was making a statement about how many kids your kids have, not the year of the bike.





jeremy3220 said:


> there's no need for them to buy a modern bike with a steep STA.


I think you're mistaken.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Relax little fella. My trail bike's a 2021. 😜


I'm not sure there would be a whole lot to say in regards to a lot of these posters if they didn't use snark and outright fallacy to try to make a point and keep blinders on. Whatever, to each their own, it has no effect on how I pilot my bike. That's not everyone, there are some really interesting contributions from a good handful of people that like their droppers and why they choose to use them, without sounding like they know everything about other riders and it's those people I tend to value the opinion of. The know-it-alls that resort to put-downs and ego preserving fallacy are the ones that I question the riding ability of. I'd put money on it.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> I think you're mistaken.


Crap, another /s got dropped.


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## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

jochribs said:


> I'm not sure there would be a whole lot to say in regards to a lot of these posters if they didn't use snark and outright fallacy to try to make a point and keep blinders on. Whatever, to each their own, it has no effect on how I pilot my bike. That's not everyone, there are some really interesting contributions from a good handful of people that like their droppers and why they choose to use them, without sounding like they know everything about other riders and it's those people I tend to value the opinion of. The know-it-alls that resort to put-downs and ego preserving fallacy are the ones that I question the riding ability of. I'd put money on it.


Now that we’re over 500, can’t someone take the gloves off and call someone an e-bike riding pussy liberal or ignorant conservative so we can move on to the next topic?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

DGUSMC said:


> Now that we’re over 500, can’t someone take the gloves off and call someone an e-bike riding pussy liberal or ignorant conservative so we can move on to the next topic?


Patience.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

d365 said:


> What do you guys think about steeper seat angles? Just curious if there is a correlation here.





kapusta said:


> One of the first benefits I noticed (beyond the obvious) when I got my first dropper back in 2005 was that I could run the seat more forward (steeper effective STA).


Hmmm...I took a look at some geo numbers from my last couple bikes and even going back to my 08, the numbers HTA and STA numbers don't seem that much different. 
74/67 vs 76/66.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Hmmm...I took a look at some geo numbers from my last couple bikes and even going back to my 08, the numbers HTA and STA numbers don't seem that much different.
> 74/67 vs 76/66.


I wonder though, if that was a rarity back in 08? I certainly wasn't looking at bikes with 74 degree seat angles back then. Although that being said, I think 73.5 was pretty normal, so honestly not that far off, and only equates to maybe a 1/4" of fore/aft difference in position.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> That's my point. But obviously people feel the need to get all hardo about their little gizmos.
> 
> It's granite. "Glacial erratics" I believe is the term. They're not always wet, thankfully.


Granite is better.
Limestone is scary when wet

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

kapusta said:


> One of the first benefits I noticed (beyond the obvious) when I got my first dropper back in 2005 was that I could run the seat more forward (steeper effective STA).





slapheadmofo said:


> Hmmm...I took a look at some geo numbers from my last couple bikes and even going back to my 08, the numbers HTA and STA numbers don't seem that much different.
> 74/67 vs 76/66.


I am not following your point, here.

FWIW, 2 deg STA difference is definitely noticeable, but still not sure what it has to do with what I was saying.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

I think that the seat angle does play a decent part in how difficult it is to keep weight low and centered over the BB. 

From 2007 - 2018 I rode an 80mm travel 70 head/73.5 seat 26er on a rigid post (I know, I was a hard core park rat... /s). In 2018 I picked up a 100mm travel 69 head/73.5 fat bike, also rigid. On both it was not hard to get the saddle behind your legs and lean the bike with weight where it should be. In 2020 I threw a dropper on the fat bike and turned it 29+ for summer use. Now it was even easier to get low and lean the bike over. 

This year I added a 150/130mm 650b full suspension bike running a 65 head/77.5 seat. On that bike it is awkward to get in front of the saddle as there is less room and it puts me way too far forward. The new bike handles descents much better thanks to the steeper front end.

Before the hyperbole train tries to leave the station again I am in no way saying the new bike with the post up can't turn or go downhill nor do I constantly fiddle with the lever. The dropper just makes things better for me. Honestly at my local I could ride just fine without one and still leave smiling. I just prefer to leave more smiling with one. The gooch is much happier as well.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

kapusta said:


> What is your point, here?
> 
> FWIW, 2 deg sta difference is definately noticeable, but still not sure what it has to do with what I was saying.


No 'point', just mentioning. 
I was curious and took a look and they numbers don't seem wildly disparate to me. But I'm not one of those guys who is super analytical when it comes to that stuff to begin with so.... 🤷‍♂️ 
I've only found one or two bikes over a lot of years that I've not been able to get along with after spending time on them.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> I'm not sure there would be a whole lot to say in regards to a lot of these posters if they didn't use snark and outright fallacy to try to make a point and keep blinders on. Whatever, to each their own, it has no effect on how I pilot my bike. That's not everyone, there are some really interesting contributions from a good handful of people that like their droppers and why they choose to use them, without sounding like they know everything about other riders and it's those people I tend to value the opinion of. The know-it-alls that resort to put-downs and ego preserving fallacy are the ones that I question the riding ability of. I'd put money on it.


Hey, the guy just got off a BMX and onto a mountain bike a few years ago.
If he doesn't know everything, then who does?


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I did


Peetey said:


> Now 25 pages of a majority of riders who* did not* ditch their droppers and why they never will ditch them. This was not the question the OP asked. Maybe our pro-dropper buffalo riders can start their own thread about how rad and knarly they are and how bad ass they feel and look and why they can't ride without them.(or even be seen without one). Beam me up and out Scottie!


I didn't completely convert to dropper seatposts. My road, gravel, cyclocross and even my SS have rigid a seatpost. Although my SS would have a dropper if I could find one in a 26.8...thought of making my own again to fit.


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## mtbdudex (Jan 13, 2020)

Picard said:


> How dare you dropped the dropper post? This sacrilege.
> 
> Nobody is allowed to abandon the dropper post. It is too useful gear.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


What I’ve enjoyed reading this thread .. it’s like the banter among a tight group of friends after a good group ride. 
Keep it like that .. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> I did
> 
> I didn't completely convert to dropper seatposts. My road, gravel, cyclocross and even my SS have rigid a seatpost. Although my SS would have a dropper if I could find one in a 26.8...thought of making my own again to fit.


shim


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> shim


Shoehorn?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

EatsDirt said:


> Shoehorn?


Whatever needs to be done.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Whatever needs to be done.


That's what she said?


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> I did
> 
> I didn't completely convert to dropper seatposts. My road, gravel, cyclocross and even my SS have rigid a seatpost. Although my SS would have a dropper if I could find one in a 26.8...thought of making my own again to fit.


Doesn't Gravity Dropper make one in that size?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Hey, the guy just got off a BMX and onto a mountain bike a few years ago.
> If he doesn't know everything, then who does?


It's ironic, because I have always found the bmx community to be down to earth and not needing to pull such BS. One of the reasons I was drawn to dirt jumping and building trails. Just a solid group of good people.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> shim


I totally know about and have shims in the past, however, I'm not aware of a shim that will make a 27.2 post fit into a 26.8 seatpost diameter.


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## jspell (Jul 11, 2006)

WOW! I really only expected a few replies to my post, now it is over 528! Of course 90% is just B.S.! 
So here is what I should have learned.
I am not a REAL mountain biker since I don’t do Drops, jumps or gnar.
I can’t ride my home trails without a dropper, even though I have been doing it for over 30 years.
I can’t corner my new school bike without a dropper.
It is impossible to get on/off my bike without dropping my post!

WHAT I KNOW NOW
I do like to be able to drop it and stand flat footed when I stop.
Being able to drop the saddle an inch or so for climbs is cool and really helps.
My local trails are still fun!
I need to practice a lot to master just dropping it the right amount. (thumb control)
I wish they made a programmable dropper, you know where it stops at the same place every time on several heights, up, down a little, down a lot and slammed.

No, I am not going to ditch my dropper!


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

jspell said:


> Being able to drop the saddle an inch or so for climbs is cool and really helps.


This def helps me on technical climbs


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> shim


sledge


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

jeremy3220 said:


> Great question. Droppers allowed for seat tube angles to increase so you're not hanging off the back of the bike. Fortunately for the high posters their knees are so bad from old age that there's no need for them to buy a modern bike with a steep STA. They can just keep riding their grandpa bike.


Steep seat-tube angles was the market's answer to the majority of "riders" who can't put down enough power to make it up a technical climb.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Steep seat-tube angles was the market's answer to the majority of "riders" who can't put down enough power to make it up a technical climb.


While you’re likely being deliberately facetious, I’ll take the bait.🤣

Boy do I miss the days of slack seat angles, where my weight was way behind the bottom bracket on seated climbs, causing the front end to lift off the ground and wander around aimlessly…

Damn those bike engineers for studying human anatomy and physics. What were they trying to pull, steepening those seat tube angles and putting the rider into a more logical, balanced climbing position???🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

cookieMonster said:


> While you’re likely being deliberately facetious, I’ll take the bait.🤣


Was I?  You do realize that the local XC riders can clear all the climbs you struggle on with a bike that's 2+ degrees slacker in the STA?

But I digress. My old knees tolerate steeper STAs just fine; it's just that the tradeoff of losing some pedaling efficiency and increased pressure on the hands/wrists doesn't pay off on long rides/races. Ultimately, the arguments in this thread reflect personal preference, what/how you ride and local terrain...would I be faster on the downhill with a dropper-post? Absolutely. I may even throw the dropper back on the bike for a shorter race later this month. But for long rides/races, I'm not going to sacrifice my set-up for 95% of my riding just to gain a little bit on the 5% where I might need it. 

In the end, I don't give a rip what you ride or why. We clearly don't ride the same terrain and you're not faster than me over the routes that I ride, so🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Well my thoughts on getting a dropper have dissipated. I'm still high posting, living life, and loving the 80s.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

On slack seat/steep head tube bikes you need to get a bit forward on the saddle on climbs to keep the front down. That's just technique. How much is TBD by the frame and terrain. As head angles slackened seat tubes had to get straighter as there was only so much "forward" while seated to be had. I am not familiar with all the frames in the world but I don't think there are many 73.5 seat tube and less than 68 degree head tube bikes out there for this reason. 

Of course I could be wrong and the steep seat tube is just because everyone is a wimp. Well, almost everyone...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rod said:


> Well my thoughts on getting a dropper have dissipated. I'm still high posting, living life, and loving the 80s.


Baloney! If you were lovin the 80's, you'd have a Hite Rite on there...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jspell said:


> I wish they made a programmable dropper, you know where it stops at the same place every time on several heights, up, down a little, down a lot and slammed.


This would make them a lot more appealing to me.

Though I may just grab one of Hurricane Jeff's little Drop Stop gizmos to stop my seat at a happy "mid-post" position and then use my dropper as a 2-3" riser instead.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

cookieMonster said:


> Boy do I miss the days of slack seat angles, where my weight was way behind the bottom bracket on seated climbs, causing the front end to lift off the ground and wander around aimlessly…


This is a gross over-generalization. Climbing was never a problem on older geo'd bikes.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> use my dropper as a 2-3" riser instead.


PNW uses a pretty simple system to limit travel. Maybe the 125 mm drop post would work for that if you only need full mid and partial mid post settings. I think they only go to max 30mm reduction if memory serves though.

I can see the wireless systems getting sophisticated enough to set multiple positions with some sort of app and lever interface change. That will make for fun posts similar to this in 2025.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> I can see the wireless systems getting sophisticated enough to set multiple positions with some sort of app and lever interface change. That will make for fun posts similar to this in 2025.


Don't get me started!!!


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

Fixed post riders, I have a question for you that I don't believe has been discussed yet. Do you guys have your seat post set via the traditional heal-toe method or the 98% leg straight method, or do you ride with the seat lower such that your pedal stroke/ riding isn't as efficient, but this doesn't matter because you spend most your time descending rather than riding cross country or on paved/gravel roads.

Reason I mention this is I rode with a younger fast DH rider without a dropper, but his saddle height looked to be set 2 inches too low for good pedaling efficiency.
Edit: He says he doesn't care because he only rides that bike for 10 to 15 miles, so pedaling efficiency doesn't matter to him.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

TiJoe said:


> Fixed post riders, I have a question for you that I don't believe has been discussed yet. Do you guys have your seat post set via the traditional heal-toe method or the 98% leg straight method, or do you ride with the seat lower such that your pedal stroke/ riding isn't as efficient, but this doesn't matter because you spend most your time descending rather than riding cross country or on paved/gravel roads.
> 
> Reason I mention this is I rode with a younger fast DH rider without a dropper, but his saddle height looked to be set 2 inches too low for good pedaling efficiency.


I'm at my standard height. Doesn't move. Approximately 74cm to top of saddle, which is the same on my gravel bike. For the trails I am riding now, as well as the trails I rode from the beginning which were much more tech than what I have quick access to now, it's never been a problem. I climb and descend anywhere from 1500 to 5000 feet on rides currently.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

TiJoe said:


> Fixed post riders, I have a question for you that I don't believe has been discussed yet. Do you guys have your seat post set via the traditional heal-toe method or the 98% leg straight method, or do you ride with the seat lower such that your pedal stroke/ riding isn't as efficient, but this doesn't matter because you spend most your time descending rather than riding cross country or on paved/gravel roads.
> 
> Reason I mention this is I rode with a younger fast DH rider without a dropper, but his saddle height looked to be set 2 inches too low for good pedaling efficiency.
> Edit: He says he doesn't care because he only rides that bike for 10 to 15 miles, so pedaling efficiency doesn't matter to him.


Where are you riding/located? What trails? Just curious.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Don't get me started!!!


Get started, not exactly the same thing but look what just dropped on Pinkbike: Amazing New Idea! This may help with the constant seat bouncing


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

jochribs said:


> Where are you riding/located? What trails? Just curious.


Flathead Valley, Montana. Single track all around the the valley. Lots of XC trails everywhere, and some good DH at Whitefish Ski resort. Lots of trails heading up to Fernie BC for other challenges.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

TiJoe said:


> Fixed post riders, I have a question for you that I don't believe has been discussed yet. Do you guys have your seat post set via the traditional heal-toe method or the 98% leg straight method, or do you ride with the seat lower such that your pedal stroke/ riding isn't as efficient,


Discussed quite a bit in this thread already. 
Hence all the 'mid post' comments.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fly4130 said:


> Get started, not exactly the same thing but look what just dropped on Pinkbike: Amazing New Idea! This may help with the constant seat bouncing


That actually seems like something that I would find much more useful than ass-powered droppers.
Or are they 'analog' droppers?


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## jspell (Jul 11, 2006)

Hopefully the next step is indexed dropping!


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

TiJoe said:


> Fixed post riders, I have a question for you that I don't believe has been discussed yet. Do you guys have your seat post set via the traditional heal-toe method or the 98% leg straight method, or do you ride with the seat lower such that your pedal stroke/ riding isn't as efficient, but this doesn't matter because you spend most your time descending rather than riding cross country or on paved/gravel roads.
> 
> Reason I mention this is I rode with a younger fast DH rider without a dropper, but his saddle height looked to be set 2 inches too low for good pedaling efficiency.
> Edit: He says he doesn't care because he only rides that bike for 10 to 15 miles, so pedaling efficiency doesn't matter to him.


I'm with Jo. I ride my seat in the same position on all my bikes. Unless I'm doing some big jumps, XC rider so your big may vary, or crossing massive, larger than 3 feet in diameter trees that will cause the front suspension to compress, then there's not really an issue. I've been doing this for forever though. Next year will be 20 years since I took my first week long mtb trip.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

jspell said:


> Hopefully the next step is indexed dropping!


Not sure if you're being serious, but it's been done.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

jochribs said:


> This is a gross over-generalization. Climbing was never a problem on older geo'd bikes.


On old bikes with slack head angles it was. Because the reach wasn’t long enough yet, so the seat angle was also slack, placing you too far over the rear tire. XC bikes were fine BITD, but I wasn’t talking about those.


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## jspell (Jul 11, 2006)

What dropper has indexed dropping?


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Had. Well maybe there is a similar design that's still on the market...

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/specialized-command-post-ircc-review.html

Pretty sure there were a few other designs as well.


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

slapheadmofo said:


> Discussed quite a bit in this thread already.
> Hence all the 'mid post' comments.


I understand what mid-post from a DH perspective, but this is a bit different than a seat post that is intentionally set a bit lower than the optimal seat height for riders who ride XC or AT riding. One rider I know, _who doesn't use a dropper_, uses his quick release clamp and has his post marked/used in 4 positions. Full down, Mid post, Full up, and about an inch down.
He says he spends the majority of his time with the post down about 1", and only puts it full up when he is on the flats/roads. He also recently switched to 170 cranks because he says he rides better in the 1" down position with the shorter cranks than full up with 175s. He drops it to mid post or lower for the gnarly down hills.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

TiJoe said:


> I understand what mid-post from a DH perspective, but this is a bit different than a seat post that is intentionally set a bit lower than the optimal seat height for riders who ride XC or AT riding. One rider I know, _who doesn't use a dropper_, uses his quick release clamp and has his post marked/used in 4 positions. Full down, Mid post, Full up, and about an inch down.
> He says he spends the majority of his time with the post down about 1", and only puts it full up when he is on the flats/roads. He also recently switched to 170 cranks because he says he rides better in the 1" down position with the shorter cranks than full up with 175s. He drops it to mid post or lower for the gnarly down hills.


Discussed. In some regions, "full up" is referred to as _TdF wannabe_ within this thread. 

I'm a Lancer!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

TiJoe said:


> I understand what mid-post from a DH perspective, but this is a bit different than a seat post that is intentionally set a bit lower than the optimal seat height for riders who ride XC or AT riding. One rider I know, _who doesn't use a dropper_, uses his quick release clamp and has his post marked/used in 4 positions. Full down, Mid post, Full up, and about an inch down.
> He says he spends the majority of his time with the post down about 1", and only puts it full up when he is on the flats/roads. He also recently switched to 170 cranks because he says he rides better in the 1" down position with the shorter cranks than full up with 175s. He drops it to mid post or lower for the gnarly down hills.


I dunno - I talked about running mine a couple inches low and people started talking about 'mid posting' in reference to that. I've never heard the term before this thread. 
Other people seem to call the same thing 'high posting'. Yet others apparently refer to anyone not using a dropper as a 'high poster'. 
Apparently it's not enough that we've already got 'downcountry' and 'acoustic bike', we need more silly ****. 
🤷‍♂️


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

jspell said:


> What dropper has indexed dropping?


Gravity Dropper has had that since its inception in 2004. Dead simple at totally reliable.

But people wanted “infinite adjustability” instead, so the industry obliged.. and droppers were complete s#!tshows for the next decade as companies tried to do that reliably and mostly failed.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

TiJoe said:


> One rider I know, _who doesn't use a dropper_, uses his quick release clamp and has his post marked/used in 4 positions. Full down, Mid post, Full up, and about an inch down.


I love this. I should mark mine at the three I use.

Maybe we should start a thread on all the different heights that fixed posters set their fixed posts at. Call it "All the different ways of doing the impossible" or something


irony definitely intended


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> I totally know about and have shims in the past, however, I'm not aware of a shim that will make a 27.2 post fit into a 26.8 seatpost diameter.


Oh, you didn’t say what size you were going from to get to. I’ve had that same issue in my personal life.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Rod said:


> Well my thoughts on getting a dropper have dissipated. I'm still high posting, living life, and loving the 80s.


There’s always tomorrow.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Was I?  You do realize that the local XC riders can clear all the climbs you struggle on with a bike that's 2+ degrees slacker in the STA?



Those XC bikes with short travel and very little sag probably end up with about the same effective STA as a modern longer travel bike with a steep STA as soon as you're seated and pointed up hill.


So it turns out that droppers are a key piece of the progress that has helped trail and all mountain bikes climb more like XC bikes 😉


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

cookieMonster said:


> On old bikes with slack head angles it was. Because the reach wasn’t long enough yet, so the seat angle was also slack, placing you too far over the rear tire. XC bikes were fine BITD, but I wasn’t talking about those.


Ah, gotcha. What sort of bike(s) are you talking about and what years? Just for my rearward knowledge on the differences. I had pretty much been riding XC ht bikes from 95 on, and when I got a 2009 Top Fuel which had a 70.5 head angle, I thought "man this thing is slack!" 😂 Was longer than I was used to at over 600 tt for a medium/large too.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

jochribs said:


> Ah, gotcha. What sort of bike(s) are you talking about and what years? Just for my rearward knowledge on the differences. I had pretty much been riding XC ht bikes from 95 on, and when I got a 2009 Top Fuel which had a 70.5 head angle, I thought "man this thing is slack!" 😂 Was longer than I was used to at over 600 tt for a medium/large too.


Most of the “freeride” bikes from the early 2000s through about 2012-2013. Santa Cruz Bullit, Rocky Mountain RM series, etc.

Even my ‘12 SX Trail had a pretty slack seat tube angle, but otherwise pretty modern geo 65* ha, low BB. By the time I had the seat up to proper height, it was hard to clean technical climbs because it wanted to wheelie. The older freeride bikes I had were even worse though.

With modern geo I can have my cake and eat it too — really slack front end, but the steep STA and longer reach to accommodate the cockpit helps keep the front end much more composed when pointed up so I can focus on power.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

TiJoe said:


> Fixed post riders, I have a question for you that I don't believe has been discussed yet. Do you guys have your seat post set via the traditional heal-toe method or the 98% leg straight method, or do you ride with the seat lower such that your pedal stroke/ riding isn't as efficient, but this doesn't matter because you spend most your time descending rather than riding cross country or on paved/gravel roads.
> 
> Reason I mention this is I rode with a younger fast DH rider without a dropper, but his saddle height looked to be set 2 inches too low for good pedaling efficiency.
> Edit: He says he doesn't care because he only rides that bike for 10 to 15 miles, so pedaling efficiency doesn't matter to him.


I use straight leg, heel on the pedal for height, and also drop a plumb line from the front of my knee, and align it with the pedal's axle....which is why I don't really get all the obsession with seat tube angle these days. They only moved it to make room for larger wheels and longer travel suspension, and as long as I can adjust the seat where I need it for knee alignment, I really don't care.


.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

_CJ said:


> ...and also drop a plumb line from the front of my knee, and align it with the pedal's axle...


Why I pretty much always use zero offset posts myself.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

cookieMonster said:


> Most of the “freeride” bikes from the early 2000s through about 2012-2013. Santa Cruz Bullit, Rocky Mountain RM series, etc.
> 
> Even my ‘12 SX Trail had a pretty slack seat tube angle, but otherwise pretty modern geo 65* ha, low BB. By the time I had the seat up to proper height, it was hard to clean technical climbs because it wanted to wheelie. The older freeride bikes I had were even worse though.
> 
> With modern geo I can have my cake and eat it too — really slack front end, but the steep STA and longer reach to accommodate the cockpit helps keep the front end much more composed when pointed up so I can focus on power.


The 98 Rocky Mountain DH Race, featured in Kranked, had a 68 HT. It was their DH frame but the Race came with triple rings and a Z1 and was a trail/FR bike. It also had a long wheelbase which was very noticeable when switching between it and my Element Race.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

cookieMonster said:


> Most of the “freeride” bikes from the early 2000s through about 2012-2013. Santa Cruz Bullit, Rocky Mountain RM series, etc.
> 
> Even my ‘12 SX Trail had a pretty slack seat tube angle, but otherwise pretty modern geo 65* ha, low BB. By the time I had the seat up to proper height, it was hard to clean technical climbs because it wanted to wheelie. The older freeride bikes I had were even worse though.
> 
> With modern geo I can have my cake and eat it too — really slack front end, but the steep STA and longer reach to accommodate the cockpit helps keep the front end much more composed when pointed up so I can focus on power.


Interesting. Never had to deal with that. I guess the question that I have though is, even though the front end was slack and further out there, I'm figuring that the lifting issue would have to do with your 'position' on the bike, as in, more upright vs leaning more forward (XCish). Think it was a product of short stems, and upright body positioning? That's something I never felt right with, and so my position on my bikes has probably been conducive to that wheel staying down when I'm in my bottom gear because my head and shoulders are in a position that doesn't give mechanical advantage to the front lifting, unless I want it to. My current top fuel is the longest bike I've ever owned, and although it has been brought to my attention that my 74.5 seat angle isn't steep 😑, I don't ever feel like the front is going to lift, unless I want it to. I do feel it is more prone to wander, but that's a product of the HA, and I've gotten used to it so it's not an issue at all.

What I've always liked is the ability to just _lift _the front wheel while I'm seated climbing with a slight pressuring of the cranks and a change in my upper bodies position. Just enough to get the wheel up onto whatever it is...transitioning to then applying the right amount of power to deal with whatever it is with the back wheel. Kind of a product of riding hardtails for so long in chunky, ledgy terrain. Just became second nature.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

milehi said:


> The 98 Rocky Mountain DH Race, featured in Kranked, had a 68 HT. It was their DH frame but the Race came with triple rings and a Z1 and was a trail/FR bike. It also had a long wheelbase which was very noticeable when switching between it and my Element Race.


What gave it the long wheelbase? Long rear end, long TT?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

PhillipJ said:


> Those XC bikes with short travel and very little sag probably end up with about the same effective STA as a modern longer travel bike with a steep STA as soon as you're seated and pointed up hill.
> 
> 
> So it turns out that droppers are a key piece of the progress that has helped trail and all mountain bikes climb more like XC bikes 😉


Yeah, raise your seat and lean forward. 😂


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

jochribs said:


> What gave it the long wheelbase? Long rear end, long TT?


Here's the bike. It doesn’t list the wheelbase but actual numbers for the 18' frame were. 69.5, 72 and 23.5. Travel was 140. Cool bike for its time. I ended up with a dual crown Mr T up front. I believe Jayem had one too with a Boxxer. I put Magura rim brakes on it also.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

milehi said:


> Here's the bike. It doesn’t list the wheelbase but actual numbers for the 18' frame were. 69.5, 72 and 23.5. Travel was 140. Cool bike for its time. I ended up with a dual crown Mr T up front. I believe Jayem had one too with a Boxxer. I put Magura rim brakes on it also.
> View attachment 2003249


Nice! Damn cool bike for it's time. I wanted a Blizzard HT like no ones business back then. Always loved how the seatstays hit the seattube above the toptube on their hardtails. 

I know this bike you posted will get scoffed at, but I actually rode the DH course at Plattekill, NY on Trek OCLV hardtail with Spinergy carbon wheels back in like 98 I think. It was rainy and cold as hell, and I was borrowing the bike, lol!!!! 😂 I would have much rathered have been on that RM that day, that's for sure.

I ended up buying that OCLV from my friend who was my manager at the time 😂


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

milehi said:


> Here's the bike. It doesn’t list the wheelbase but actual numbers for the 18' frame were. 69.5, 72 and 23.5. Travel was 140. Cool bike for its time. I ended up with a dual crown Mr T up front. I believe Jayem had one too with a Boxxer. I put Magura rim brakes on it also.
> View attachment 2003249


Fun fact, my most recent project bike purchase, which came stock with 71/73 angles on 100mm shocks front and rear measures 69/71 with a taller front end....I mocked it up based on the 67.5 conversion I plan to do. Have to wonder if that 140mm fork was really the only change, and it resulted in those angles.

Briko glasses, lulz, I remember those.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

jochribs said:


> Nice! Damn cool bike for it's time. I wanted a Blizzard HT like no ones business back then. Always loved how the seatstays hit the seattube above the toptube on their hardtails.
> 
> I know this bike you posted will get scoffed at, but I actually rode the DH course at Plattekill, NY on Trek OCLV hardtail with Spinergy carbon wheels back in like 98 I think. It was rainy and cold as hell, and I was borrowing the bike, lol!!!! 😂 I would have much rathered have been on that RM that day, that's for sure.
> 
> I ended up buying that OCLV from my friend who was my manager at the time 😂


That was the first time I dropped a lot of money on a bike. For me at the time. I had a kid under one and another in the oven and had just bought a house so it wasn't the best use of cash at the time but I was making decent money. It was 2K (3600 now) but no tax in Oregon. I ended up getting the 98 Element Race at the end of the year on clearance too. Before that, I was buying used high end or getting homey hook ups.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

milehi said:


> That was the first time I dropped a lot of money on a bike. For me at the time. I had a kid under one and another in the oven and had just bought a house so it wasn't the best use of cash at the time but I was making decent money. It was 2K (3600 now) but no tax in Oregon. I ended up getting the 98 Element Race at the end of the year on clearance too. Before that, I was buying used high end or getting homey hook ups.


Crazy how that was a ton of money then. A steal now.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

jochribs said:


> Crazy how that was a ton of money then. A steal now.


Mostly because we're stupid enough to enable what's going on today.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

BansheeRune said:


> Mostly because we're stupid enough to enable what's going on today.


Agree 100%.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> Nice! Damn cool bike for it's time. I wanted a Blizzard HT like no ones business back then. Always loved how the seatstays hit the seattube above the toptube on their hardtails.


I still got one of those hanging around in the archives. 










Speaking of ST hitting above the TT and light front ends, I tripped over this out there too.  
The tire's flat so the CS looks long in this pic; with air it snugs right up into that cut-out. 
This thing flips over backwards like you read about. Not much of a trail bike, but super fun pumptracker.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> I still got one of those hanging around in the archives.
> 
> View attachment 2003270
> 
> ...


There it is Slap! So nice!

**What is that one with the funky yoke and cut out seat tube? Bet that thing was a flipper. 26"?


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## Roge (May 5, 2017)

jochribs said:


> Crazy how that was a ton of money then. A steal now.





BansheeRune said:


> Mostly because we're stupid enough to enable what's going on today.


In about 1995, at the first shop I worked at, I bought a Cannondale F1000 at employee purchase price which was the first high end 'out of the box' bike I bought. As I recall cost was a bit over $1k, but I could be wrong. I was recently married, we just had a kid, but we didn't have much money. I rang it up as a sale under my sales ID. The shop owner, (who everyone despised), paid us minimum wage or less and 8% sales bonus, so I got $80 commission on my bike. About a month later the shop owner said everyone has to ring up their purchases on the house account ID, he didn't realize everyone was getting commission on their purchases at cost, that had been going on for a while. I'm not proud of it, but the shop owner really was a dick, and his shop is about four miles from ours on the same street.

EDIT: The F1000 did not have a dropper post, nor a Hite-Rite. Not sure if it had a QR or an allen bolt for the seatpost.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> There it is Slap! So nice!


Right? Grabbed it my LBS used bike sale a few years back. $175 
Yup, I'll take that right off your hands...



jochribs said:


> **What is that one with the funky yoke and cut out seat tube? Bet that thing was a flipper. 26"?


Still is. When I say 'archives', I mean my shed. LOL
Yes, 26"
A friend of mine builds weird bikes. 
That frame was part of his "prototype"/thought process wrt building a 'playful fat bike. 
It's kind of a DJ/pump/play bike. Eccentric BB too. 
F*ck it, I'll take that off your hands as well! 🤷‍♂️

It eventually evolved into this (and then a number of other iterations)
Lots more weirdness at Wraith Bicycles


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I knew slap was holdin' out on us all this time... We see how you are, whya gotta be like that??


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slapheadmofo said:


> Right? Grabbed it my LBS used bike sale a few years back. $175
> Yup, I'll take that right off your hands...
> 
> 
> ...


Sick!
=sParty


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Right? Grabbed it my LBS used bike sale a few years back. $175
> Yup, I'll take that right off your hands...
> 
> 
> ...


I am not into fat bikes, at all, and that thing has me questioning that. Damn, that bike is sexy. You got more details on it?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> I am not into fat bikes, at all, and that thing has me questioning that. Damn, that bike is sexy. You got more details on it?


2 most important things to know are 

A) It'll take a dropper
2) It's next to impossible to get your hands one.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> 2) It's next to impossible to get your hands one.


Well, now I'm obsessed.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> Well, now I'm obsessed.


You should see the FS version. 🤤


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slapheadmofo said:


> 2 most important things to know are
> 
> A) It'll take a dropper
> 2) It's next to impossible to get your hands one.


III) Actually it’s not that hard to get your hands on a dropper. 
=sParty


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> You should see the FS version. 🤤


ooof ...


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

__





Loading…






www.pinkbike.com


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

C Smasher said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ugh. Maybe it’s got ABS, too. 
=sParty


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Ugh. Maybe it’s got ABS, too.
> =sParty


Actually, as mentioned earlier, I would think this is a huge improvement over anal-og (ass-powered) droppers.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Actually, as mentioned earlier, I would think this is a huge improvement over anal-og (ass-powered) droppers.


This, and it doesn't look like some John Wayne Bobbit hack job sticking out of your frame.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So back to the original question: Do I really need a dropper or can I still enjoy riding my bike without one?

I lived overseas for a while, back when droppers were a quick release clamp, and while my bike was locked up the seat and post were "borrowed"; that was a long ride home through the city


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Sanchofula said:


> So back to the original question: Do I really need a dropper or can I still enjoy riding my bike without one?
> 
> I lived overseas for a while, back when droppers were a quick release clamp, and while my bike was locked up the seat and post were "borrowed"; that was a long ride home through the city


Same thing happened to me about 25 years ago while I was stopped at a McDonalds for a quick snack (hot apple pie --yum!)
Anyway the perp got away with an expensive seatpost (Syncros, IIRC) expensive saddle and an under-seat bag full of tools & tube.
I lost a couple hundred dollars* worth of stuff -- that was an expensive hot apple pie.
=sParty

*Back when a couple hundred dollars was actually worth a couple hundred dollars.


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

Sanchofula said:


> So back to the original question: Do I really need a dropper or can I still enjoy riding my bike without one?
> 
> I lived overseas for a while, back when droppers were a quick release clamp, and while my bike was locked up the seat and post were "borrowed"; that was a long ride home through the city


A while back I noticed my buddies brand new bike locked up at the grocery store. I took his seat post and hid to watch his reaction. I let it go on longer than I should have, I let him pedal home a few blocks and then showed up at his house with his seat. It was so funny to me!


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I have a QR clamp break once. QR clamps suck.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

C Smasher said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In 2004, Gravity Dropper introduced a dropper that is simple and reliable. It had preset drops. 



Then Maverik come out with an infinite adjust post. It was totally unreliable. But infinite adjust was now a must-have, never mind that it does not work well.

Then for the next 10-15 years : every company had some version of the more complicated infinite adjust post and most of them were crap. But folks prefer fancy, complicated stuff that is unreliable over simple stuff that works.

Then a few years ago, the industry finally started making infinite adjust posts that work well.

Yay!

Now someone has come up with an even more complicated version of the dropper, with a marginal feature that every company will try to emulate.

I hope I am wrong about where this is going.


----------



## bamdave (Mar 18, 2015)

jspell said:


> Ok, I just got a new bike (Trek Top Fuel) with a dropper post. I have been riding a hard tail the last nine years and never saw the need for one. I don't ride steep or jumps, just old school cross country trails mainly tight and twisty with rolling hills. I have tried to use the post a few times but hate the transition from up to down as it just throws me off.
> Anyone else go back to a rigid post? Am I missing something else?
> 
> _Admin edit: Photo added for newsletter and social_
> View attachment 2003116


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## bamdave (Mar 18, 2015)

I bought a bike with a dropper post and ended up never using it. I have been riding for a very long time and have become very good at getting my weight way back without a dropper. You have a split second to react to a situation where a dropper would be great and my mind could not remember to use it. I did try to use it prior to hitting a long rock garden but i like the feel of the seat just below my ass so i didnt find it helpfull. I swat out droppers for carbon posts now.


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

kapusta said:


> Now someone has come up with an even more complicated version of the dropper, with a marginal feature that every company will try to emulate.
> 
> I hope I am wrong about where this is going.


I hope you are wrong too! I like my, as slaphead put it, anal-log ass actuated dropper


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## jbculligan (Mar 25, 2006)

yes you can ride rigid SP. I did/have for 20yrs. Obviously before they were common we rode all kinds of crazy trails without them and figured it out... then as they became more common, I intended to get one; but didn't want the weight or the on-trail maintenance hassles; so i waited and just rode... a year turned into a decade with no 'missed-radness' along the way. I did recently get the Transfer SL and am now riding with it. I can see a few spots here and there where it's marginally helpful; but doesn't change the stoke factor of the riding at all. 

The variance is in the wee margins -- even for riders that might have only ever ridden with a DP; if we measured the variances what might they be? 5-10 sec quicker on a 5-10min downhill? 5-7inches higher on 4 ft gap jump? The knarlier line down a rockgarden (requiring less skill)? 

With or without DP -- you can learn to ride the bike however it's setup and do almost the same, it's a riding style thing more than anything else. Choose your style and ride lots


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

C Smasher said:


> I hope you are wrong too! I like my, as slaphead put it, anal-log ass actuated dropper


Anal log


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## GoldenKnightMTB (11 mo ago)

I dont get the people that can't use a dropper. Test a downhill section, maybe with rocks, and technical with a dropper lowered. Lower your center of gravity while standing. 
Next, test the seat at your regular height. There is definitely better control with a lower seat and lower center of gravity. You can ride faster and have more control. Once the section ends, pop the seat back up.
You will ride slower and have less control without a dropper. If you are riding paved trails or flat stuff, maybe you don't need a dropper.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

I agree with the "your bike, your life - enjoy" sentiment.

I like having a dropper post, but the trend of posts that drop all the way into the seat tube is extremely overrated. On some bikes, (like my Ripmo with a sub-par Fox "performance" level shock) means that the saddle hits the rear tire when landing a jump. It takes longer to drop/raise the post too.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

slapheadmofo said:


> You should see the FS version. 🤤


You're downright mean... 



GoldenKnightMTB said:


> I dont get the people that can't use a dropper. Test a downhill section, maybe with rocks, and technical with a dropper lowered. Lower your center of gravity while standing.
> Next, test the seat at your regular height. There is definitely better control with a lower seat and lower center of gravity. You can ride faster and have more control. Once the section ends, pop the seat back up.
> You will ride slower and have less control without a dropper. If you are riding paved trails or flat stuff, maybe you don't need a dropper.


Seems like a simple detail.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

jbculligan said:


> yes you can ride rigid SP. I did/have for 20yrs. Obviously before they were common we rode all kinds of crazy trails without them and figured it out... then as they became more common, I intended to get one; but didn't want the weight or the on-trail maintenance hassles; so i waited and just rode... a year turned into a decade with no 'missed-radness' along the way. I did recently get the Transfer SL and am now riding with it. I can see a few spots here and there where it's marginally helpful; but doesn't change the stoke factor of the riding at all.
> 
> The variance is in the wee margins -- even for riders that might have only ever ridden with a DP; if we measured the variances what might they be? 5-10 sec quicker on a 5-10min downhill? 5-7inches higher on 4 ft gap jump? The knarlier line down a rockgarden (requiring less skill)?
> 
> With or without DP -- you can learn to ride the bike however it's setup and do almost the same, it's a riding style thing more than anything else. Choose your style and ride lots


I will try to say this as respectfully as I can. Not all trails and features can be ridden successfully with the seat up. What I mean by “successfully” is clearing all the features cleanly and at a reasonably quick speed; quick by DH racers’ standards. On some trails, this is simply not possible with the seat in the way. On moderately technical, but high-speed DH runs like this one — (one of my favorites)








— no amount of suspension travel can eliminate the need to be active on the bike. Your arms and legs must be fully involved. If you have your seat to your chest, you are comparably “along for the ride” as opposed to having a full range of motion that you can instantly change. As far as time goes — we’re talking over a minute on a 5 minute segment. The difference in possible speed is huge, not a mere 5-10 seconds. I know how to ride with the seat up — I raced XC for years. On the above pictured trail there is no way you could ride it fast with the seat up. Could I clean the whole thing with the seat up? Yes, but it wouldn’t be fast. FWIW, that trail drops 2200’ of elevation in around 1.5 miles, and it is by no means as steep as many of the others I ride.

Moving on, some trails/features are STEEP. _Really_ steep. Steep with nasty features. See exhibits A, B, C, and D (the camera makes these look flatter, BTW):
































If you are way back behind the seat, you are not weighting your front end properly. When you do that, your front tire cannot bite — and that’s where at least 70% of your braking power comes from. Once the front end starts breaking loose — you belong to gravity unless you somehow back off and can find some traction again. I ride and enjoy these kind of trails all the time, and experiment with body position when the consequences aren’t high. There is definitely a point where getting too far back results in the front tire breaking loose, and that point is precisely where I’d be if my seat was in the way. 

In your typical XC/trail type situation, what I’ve said above rarely applies, so of course there are people who are going to be fine running a fixed post and ride plenty fast. Not on these kind of trails. Also, what I’ve posted are simply normal trail conditions in the PNW and BC — they are not one-off/extreme/rare case conditions. They are the _norm,_ and nobody rides them with the seat up.

TL/DR: Just doing my part to get us to 600. Flame on!🤣🤣


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

cookieMonster said:


> I will try to say this as respectfully as I can. Not all trails and features can be ridden successfully with the seat up. What I mean by “successfully” is clearing all the features cleanly and at a reasonably quick speed; quick by DH racers’ standards. On some trails, this is simply not possible with the seat in the way. On moderately technical, but high-speed DH runs like this one — (one of my favorites)
> View attachment 2003463
> 
> — no amount of suspension travel can eliminate the need to be active on the bike. Your arms and legs must be fully involved. If you have your seat to your chest, you are comparably “along for the ride” as opposed to having a full range of motion that you can instantly change. As far as time goes — we’re talking over a minute on a 5 minute segment. The difference in possible speed is huge, not a mere 5-10 seconds. I know how to ride with the seat up — I raced XC for years. On the above pictured trail there is no way you could ride it fast with the seat up. Could I clean the whole thing with the seat up? Yes, but it wouldn’t be fast. FWIW, that trail drops 2200’ of elevation in around 1.5 miles, and it is by no means as steep as many of the others I ride.
> ...


I gotta say pic A looks awesome. I would really enjoy that trail.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I have told this story before.

But a couple of years ago my wife was sharing a sponsor with a masters racer from Spain. He came over to bc to race an XC stage race and holiday. Him and his family stayed with us for a while.

when he arrived he pulled his bike out of the box and I noted two things. One 2.0 ikons and the other a straight post. I politely suggested that he might want some bigger tires and a dropper. He politely ignored me.

Went riding with him that afternoon and I was treated to art work on bike. He effortlessly floated over the terrain like it was paved. Later that night we got talk about racing and it came up that he had won a couple of DH world cups in the late 90s.

Some people are just better at the biking thing than the rest of us. And they just don’t need the same equipment.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

LMN said:


> I have told this story before.
> 
> But a couple of years ago my wife was sharing a sponsor with a masters racer from Spain. He came over to bc to race an XC stage race and holiday. Him and his family stayed with us for a while.
> 
> ...


But LMN, this just cannot be...as Slap says, it's "unpossible". 

***What a gift to get to hang with that guy for a while...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

GoldenKnightMTB said:


> I dont get the people that can't use a dropper. Test a downhill section, maybe with rocks, and technical with a dropper lowered. Lower your center of gravity while standing.
> Next, test the seat at your regular height. There is definitely better control with a lower seat and lower center of gravity. You can ride faster and have more control. Once the section ends, pop the seat back up.
> You will ride slower and have less control without a dropper. If you are riding paved trails or flat stuff, maybe you don't need a dropper.


Bushwacker? Izzat you?

🤡


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## MBShick (Apr 28, 2021)

BmanInTheD said:


> How do you get on and off your bike without a dropper post?


I've never considered dropping the saddle to get on and off. I don't even think about the saddle when getting on and off. But I do like the dropper. My everyday ride has zero gnar, but it does have at least one raised cattle guard, and I'll drop the saddle to make going over that smoother, easier, and faster.


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## mtbdudex (Jan 13, 2020)

Fwiw; I asked in local Michigan based MTB group, over 95% yea for dropper posts.











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

I did some MTBR science - Over the weekend I tried high posting on Captain Ahab and The Whole Enchilada.

Hypothesis: High posting will be slow, awkward, and sketchy

Results: High posting sucks


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

C Smasher said:


> I did some MTBR science - Over the weekend I tried high posting on Captain Ahab and The Whole Enchilada.
> 
> Hypothesis: High posting will be slow, awkward, and sketchy
> 
> Results: High posting sucks


I don't think most people in here saying they don't use dropper posts leave them all the way up all the time...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

It's rather sad to realize the level of egotism it takes to continue to talk **** on a subject that really doesn't require any concern about what other people are doing to utilize their bikes.

Dudes are going out on rides with this thread on their conscious thought processes. Taking pics to show their genital prowess and how rad they are. Coming back to talk about how slow_ they are _with their posts up. Making incessant quips about others absolute certain riding of flat terrain and _paths_, of all things, if they aren't using a seatpost of their approval.

If psychology had any view into the drive behind such self-aggrandizing, it would be behoove a person of even moderate intelligence to conclude that the aggrandizers were vying for approval and attempting to validate themselves...going as far as to strive to convince _themselves _of their superiority. Must be a real motherfucking drag to be these people. That's a hell of a burden and I'd surmise that a ride colored by such a conscious need for constant narcissistic self-soothing masturbation would really be lacking the authentic joy that is (or should be) the purpose for riding in the first place. 

Notwithstanding, that the majority of riders seen on the trail with all the bells and whistles on fully decked out rigs and all the right gear to fit in and look the part on any given day, are generally on the skilless noob level, regardless of 'time in the game'...but sure, the folks on MTBR talking sh!t must all be of the variety consisting of complete badasses that are a slim hair from the handling ability of your favorite pro. 


Yeah effing right.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

jochribs said:


> TL;DR


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeah ya did, but snarks your currency (fiat) of choice. All good. To be expected. Carry on.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

LMN said:


> Went riding with him that afternoon and I was treated to art work on bike. He effortlessly floated over the terrain like it was paved. Later that night we got talk about racing and it came up that he had won a couple of DH world cups in the late 90s.
> 
> Some people are just better at the biking thing than the rest of us. And they just don’t need the same equipment.


This is the rider that I know exist but never see on the trail or posting videos of themselves here. Yes, there's some absolute high post legends but that means nothing for the average rider.

Outside of XC racing this more like a novelty than 'better at biking'. Dude doesn't need the same equipment because he's not winning gravity races in this century. Richie Rude needs a dropper. It's a nice story but the reality is the best riders aren't winning gravity races with a high post these days. The best riders are slower downhill with a high post.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

jochribs said:


> It's rather sad to realize the level of egotism it takes to continue to talk **** on a subject that really doesn't require any concern about what other people are doing to utilize their bikes.
> 
> 
> Notwithstanding, that the majority of riders seen on the trail with all the bells and whistles on fully decked out rigs and all the right gear to fit in and look the part on any given day, are generally on the skilless noob level, regardless of 'time in the game'...but sure, the folks on MTBR talking sh!t must all be of the variety consisting of complete badasses that are a slim hair from the handling ability of your favorite pro.
> ...


Pot meet kettle....


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I ditched this thread.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Jayem said:


> I ditched this thread.


Obviously. 🤡 

You got a bumper sticker on your car that says "This is not a bumper sticker" too?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

d365 said:


> Pot meet kettle....


Not even close. Read the comments. 

I mean seriously dude. That's a weak remark that has zero validity.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Jayem said:


> I ditched this thread.


Don't blame you a bit.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

It's always fun reading dropper threads. It's a tool to do a job for a certain segment of the population riding certain trails with ambitions to go certain speeds. But it might as well be a religious icon when mountain bikers talk about it.


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

This thread is still alive? I almost forgot about it. OTOH, I am looking for a great price on a PNW Coast 120mm 30.9. Maybe some "fixed Post" rider has one they want to get rid of.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

tick_magnet said:


> It's always fun reading dropper threads. It's a tool to do a job for a certain segment of the population riding certain trails with ambitions to go certain speeds. But it might as well be a religious icon when mountain bikers talk about it.


Very well said. It's not the debate whether someone swears by them or not. It's the absolute arrogance and condescension infused comments regarding the use of them towards those who have stated they don't that points to a bigger issue on a psychological level. 

Nearly everytime an alert is made about a new comment on this thread, it's some smart ass jab about what someone who doesn't use them must be doing, or is incapable of, or must be riding tame, etc etc etc. It puts people who don't use them on the defense, which is stupid on its face, and points to some real ego issues with the ones who can't make a comment without insipidly claiming their supposed superiority. It's fucking pathetic.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> Very well said. It's not the debate whether someone swears by them or not. It's the absolute arrogance and condescension infused comments regarding the use of them towards those who have stated they don't that points to a bigger issue on a psychological level.
> 
> Nearly everytime an alert is made about a new comment on this thread, it's some smart ass jab about what someone who doesn't use them must be doing, or is incapable of, or must be riding tame, etc etc etc. It puts people who don't use them on the defense, which is stupid on its face, and points to some real ego issues with the ones who can't make a comment without insipidly claiming their supposed superiority. It's fucking pathetic.



Or can't afford one. LOL

Oooh nooo!!!...not $200...however will I feed the chilluns...

🤡


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

jochribs said:


> Very well said. It's not the debate whether someone swears by them or not. It's the absolute arrogance and condescension infused comments regarding the use of them towards those who have stated they don't that points to a bigger issue on a psychological level.
> 
> Nearly everytime an alert is made about a new comment on this thread, it's some smart ass jab about what someone who doesn't use them must be doing, or is incapable of, or must be riding tame, etc etc etc. It puts people who don't use them on the defense, which is stupid on its face, and points to some real ego issues with the ones who can't make a comment without insipidly claiming their supposed superiority. It's fucking pathetic.


That's okay. Just let them talk and treat it as a cautionary tale. I've learned that when I meet one of these on the trail, I don't pushback. I just tell them how badass they are and they usually quiet down and don't cause anymore drama.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

jeremy3220 said:


> This is the rider that I know exist but never see on the trail or posting videos of themselves here. Yes, there's some absolute high post legends but that means nothing for the average rider.
> 
> Outside of XC racing this more like a novelty than 'better at biking'. Dude doesn't need the same equipment because he's not winning gravity races in this century. Richie Rude needs a dropper. It's a nice story but the reality is the best riders aren't winning gravity races with a high post these days. The best riders are slower downhill with a high post.


This is the opposite of the point I was making. I haven't seen one average person that has one that is doing anything that I can't do just as fast, or faster than. The cross section of the general riding population isn't doing anything that makes me think I'm falling behind and the missing link is the dropper. 

No, I'm not running DH trails and trying to run super tech gravity. But I am riding trail that has plenty of elevation loss and tech in it. I am not only managing, I am riding it at an above average level. And that's not even pushing it. I'm 46, I'm not racing anymore. 

My point here is, I see tons, virtually all riders around me with droppers. I have yet to see a 'legend' with one. What I see are people with poor skill, using the thing everytime the trail points down or even over anything even remotely rough, and they clearly use it as a crutch in their riding. I'm not saying that as an insult. I say it as a deadpan honest observation. The oddest part of that is as the years progress with this post option, this same population of riders are getting more and more arrogant and standoffish about the use/need of them, and their puffed up vibe has absolutely ZERO credibility when their riding is observed. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with droppers...if I built up a bike for gravity, I'd put one on. (Thinking about a pair of Status's for my son and I). But even riding the extreme end of XC, I don't feel the need. And I'm not a slouch on my bike. People need to respect that and realize there are folks that actually have some riding ability that get by just fine without them. It isn't a slight towards those that insist on them when someone else opts to NOT use one. If a person is threatened to the point of talking **** on MTBR about those that don't use them, maybe they're not entirely comfortable with their own abilities. Why else would one run their fucking mouths about another's choice?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

tick_magnet said:


> That's okay. Just let them talk and treat it as a cautionary tale. I've learned that when I meet one of these on the trail, I don't pushback. I just tell them how badass they are and they usually quiet down and don't cause anymore drama.


That's when you let them in front and buzz their tire as you ride. Been there, done that. And the dude in particular was such an egotistical POS. Was nice to shrink him to an infuriated bag of hot air. I was on a hardtail too.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

jochribs said:


> ...and their puffed up vibe has absolutely ZERO credibility when their riding is observed.


Most of the discussion here on MTBR and other places online is all hot air. Everyone should just let their riding speak for itself.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

jochribs said:


> My point here is, I see tons, virtually all riders around me with droppers. I have yet to see a 'legend' with one. What I see are people with poor skill, using the thing everytime the trail points down or even over anything even remotely rough, and they clearly use it as a crutch in their riding. I'm not saying that as an insult. I say it as a deadpan honest observation. The oddest part of that is as the years progress with this post option, this same population of riders are getting more and more arrogant and standoffish about the use/need of them, and their puffed up vibe has absolutely ZERO credibility when their riding is observed.


This is pretty funny. I thought it was only me. I now see newbs riding green and blue trails thinking that a dropper is the first thing they need to upgrade. It's damn confusing. Hell, a dropper on a green trail is less useful than it would be on a road bike where the roadie can at least benefit from more aerodynamics.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

tick_magnet said:


> This is pretty funny. I thought it was only me. I now see newbs riding green and blue trails thinking that a dropper is the first thing they need to upgrade. It's damn confusing. Hell, a dropper on a green trail is less useful than it would be on a road bike where the roadie can at least benefit from more aerodynamics.


Exactly! Hahahaha! Maybe we'll see them in the pro tours as a way to get around the UCI's ban of sitting on the top tube! Lol!!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> This is the opposite of the point I was making. I haven't seen one average person that has one that is doing anything that I can't do just as fast, or faster than. The cross section of the general riding population isn't doing anything that makes me think I'm falling behind and the missing link is the dropper.
> 
> No, I'm not running DH trails and trying to run super tech gravity. But I am riding trail that has plenty of elevation loss and tech in it. I am not only managing, I am riding it at an above average level. And that's not even pushing it. I'm 46, I'm not racing anymore.
> 
> ...


But what about Rich Rude, or all those people trying to race DH with their seat up to their armpits?


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

jochribs said:


> Exactly! Hahahaha! Maybe we'll see them in the pro tours as a way to get around the UCI's ban of sitting on the top tube! Lol!!


This has already started to happen. I have no doubt the UCI will put an end to it pretty soon.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

jochribs said:


> Exactly! Hahahaha! Maybe we'll see them in the pro tours as a way to get around the UCI's ban of sitting on the top tube! Lol!!


If droppers start becoming mainstream on road bikes, there could be a mass exodus by the bros. Nobody wants to be associated with lycra and visor less helmets. And let's be honest, there will still be plenty to brag about when it comes to who can descend the gnarliest stuff on a high post.


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## suburbanassault (4 mo ago)

tick_magnet said:


> This is pretty funny. I thought it was only me. I now see newbs riding green and blue trails thinking that a dropper is the first thing they need to upgrade. It's damn confusing. Hell, a dropper on a green trail is less useful than it would be on a road bike where the roadie can at least benefit from more aerodynamics.


It can be nice to get a lower center of gravity when seated or the saddle out of the way when not even when going slow on rather tame ground. Totally not necessary but still nice. Hell, for newbs maybe even necessary. Also, I suppose most "hobbyist level" bikes come with a dropper nowadays? So people are going to have them.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> But what about Rich Rude, or all those people trying to race DH with their seat up to their armpits?


I need to look him up. I'm not familiar with him.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Eric F said:


> This has already started to happen. I have no doubt the UCI will put an end to it pretty soon.


Had no idea, Eric!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

sgltrak said:


> Most of the discussion here on MTBR and other places online is all hot air. Everyone should just let their riding speak for itself.


 or just not participate in the echo chamber ...


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

jochribs said:


> Had no idea, Eric!


It's not wide-spread by any means, but there has been the occasional rider with a dropper in a pro race (most notably - Matej Mahoric, winner of Milan-San Remo). I don't foresee it becoming a major thing any time soon.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

sgltrak said:


> Everyone should just let their riding speak for itself.


That's not how it works on the interwebs. Everyone is an expert from behind their keyboard.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Sanchofula said:


> or just not participate in the echo chamber ...


Indeed Ben. This entire site is an echo chamber. Sometimes it's hard to resist getting dragged in when the baseless, obnoxious insults and chest beating are going off the charts, of which countering that is the only reason I involved myself in this thread.


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

Echo, echo, echo, echo. A couple months ago, I put my gravel bike dropper on my road bike to see how it affected the speed on my favorite paved descent. With it down, I was able to gain about 3 mph, into the 50s. (50.3) Still Not even close enough to get the Strava segment record, (58.5). (The problem with this test, is that I have 60mm aero wheels on my road bike, and on this particular descent, there are often sudden cross head winds that slam my road bike all over the road and slows me down, on this day there was little head wind, but no tail wind.) 
In comparison, on my gravel bike, with the post dropped my top speed is typically between 43 to 45, but the bike is very very stable. 
_I also wonder about Strava records. 58.5mph is really fast for this grade and length of descent and I wonder if they are real or faked._


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> This entire site is an echo chamber.


Precisely. 
And then people get awl bent outta shape if they hear anything other than an echo...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Eric F said:


> It's not wide-spread by any means, but there has been the occasional rider with a dropper in a pro race (most notably - Matej Mahoric, winner of Milan-San Remo). I don't foresee it becoming a major thing any time soon.


And of course, there are sooo many pro racers posting here.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jochribs said:


> I need to look him up. I'm not familiar with him.


Somewhat local to this area (CT). Killing it on the Enduro scene for a bunch of years now.
Used to cross paths with him here and there at some of the N.E. DH parks when he was younger, along with his dad Rich Sr who's a solid rider and excellent dude as well.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

slapheadmofo said:


> And of course, there are sooo many pro racers posting here.


Whether there are or not is irrelevant. My responses were related to jochribs' comment about pro road use.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Somewhat local to this area (CT). Killing it on the Enduro scene for a bunch of years now.
> Used to cross paths with him here and there at some of the N.E. DH parks when he was younger, along with his dad Rich Sr who's a solid rider and excellent dude as well.


Nice! That sounds like a particular snowboarder out here. Not going to drop names, but the situation is similar. Son is a pretty badass pro, and dad who is in his 50' is no effing slouch and my son and I really enjoy riding powder with him. Clear that the apple didn't fall far at all from the tree!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Eric F said:


> Whether there are or not is irrelevant. My responses were related to jochribs' comment about pro road use.


Ahh...missed that it was road riding.

Who cares then?


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

slapheadmofo said:


> Ahh...missed that it was road riding.
> 
> Who cares then?


It turns out that some members of this group ride more than just MTBs. Apparently, TiJoe has personal experience with a dropper post on a road bike, and noted some differences.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Eric F said:


> It turns out that some members of this group ride more than just MTBs. Apparently, TiJoe has personal experience with a dropper post on a road bike, and noted some differences.


Are you familiar with what a 'wink' emoji signifies? Or no?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Let me Google that for you.
=sParty


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

I missed an amazon sale for a 30.9 internal PWN Coast dropper for $141 a couple weeks ago. Went for a ride and when I arrived home, they were no longer for sale. Wonder how many riders decided that they wanted to ditch a fixed post and go to a dropper. 

There is flack on another thread, chatting about that this thread has lost momentum and the other thread has around 400 more posts to catch up to this one. Come on! A thread isn't a real thread until it hits 1000 posts!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

TiJoe said:


> … Went for a ride and when I arrived home, they were no longer for sale. …


No longer for sale?
What, did PNW go out of business?
Guess you’ll have to choose another brand.
=sParty


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## BarryR (6 mo ago)

Sparticus said:


> No longer for sale?
> What, did PNW go out of business?
> Guess you’ll have to choose another brand.
> =sParty


PNW didn't go out of business but they did have a 30% (I think) off sale briefly. Not sure why but I got myself a Loam Lever to go with my 200 mm Loam dropper posts.

Their products are great and the dropper posts have a lifetime warranty!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

BarryR said:


> PNW didn't go out of business but they did have a 30% (I think) off sale briefly. Not sure why but I got myself a Loam Lever to go with my 200 mm Loam dropper posts.
> 
> Their products are great and the dropper posts have a lifetime warranty!


Yes, I have a PNW dropper post on my gravel bike so I’m familiar with them.
You say you don’t know why you did what you did?
=sParty


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## BarryR (6 mo ago)

Sparticus said:


> Yes, I have a PNW dropper post on my gravel bike so I’m familiar with them.
> You say you don’t know why you did what you did?
> =sParty


Bad punctuation as I was multi-tasking. I meant, I don't know why they suddenly had a sale briefly. I know exactly why I bought the lever.

I wasn't crazy about the one that came with my Stumpjumper particularly because it required the nubbed end of the cable to be at the shifter. My cable failed (at the post end) & I think it's in part due to that design set-up which requires a somewhat clunky/bulky set-screw thingy at the dropper post end.


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

PNW, Amazon and Jenson all the the same sale. I wonder if Amazon and Jenson were drop shipping directly from PNW, until they ran out of inventory of some of the models, then removed the sale.


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## BarryR (6 mo ago)

TiJoe said:


> PNW, Amazon and Jenson all the the same sale. I wonder if Amazon and Jenson were drop shipping directly from PNW, until they ran out of inventory of some of the models, then removed the sale.


I suspect that's correct. It looked like the sale ended and shortly after (or about same time) most items went back to regular price at Jenson & Amazon. I think a few items lagged before they went back up.

I purchased directly from PNW.


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