# Krampus: old vs new?



## aaronufl (Sep 13, 2015)

Hi all,

I'm looking at purchasing a Krampus to build up as a bikepacking rig. I know the 2017 bike has a few new modifications, but I found a pretty screaming deal on a green Krampus in my size. I plan on putting sus fork on whichever one I purchase. Are the new changes on the Krampus worth shelling out the extra money?


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## Flying_Scotsman (Jul 12, 2011)

New one has boost rear spacing, will make chain/tyre clearance much better.... I would buy it for that alone!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Reviews have been mixed as to ride old vs. new. I would dig into some user reviews to see which one meets your needs best.

If got a green one and it's been a great bikepacking rig.










I haven't seen a MK3 Krampus or ridden one so I can't comment on it.


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

Still loving my 1st gen. Last year I upgraded to a Jones Plus 148 TA. It's a sweet sweet ride and everything I hoped and more, but not night/day that I've noticed yet. I admit I miss the idea of being able to pop a standard 29er wheelset into it whenever I want/need. Great bike she is.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

One of my riding buddies has a green Krampus. He loves it. 
I bought a black frameset. (New one). I thought for sure he would see mine and sell his for a new one. He does like the thru axles and the head tube on mine but he tears it up on his bike. He's keeping his green one. 
Is the one you found a good deal?


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

Late to the party here.

I have ridden my 2012 Krampus for a solid year.

As my one bike and bikepacking rig.

It has been flawless.

The newer krampus is better, but the original is still really good.

If you are traveling out of the country the original krampus might be a better choice when it comes to sourcing parts!

Either way old or new the Krampus is a GREAT bike!


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## RubeRad (Jul 1, 2013)

Was about to post a thread with exactly the same title, glad I searched first!

I have decided that my next (and possibly final!) MTB will be a Surly Knard. I'm the kind of guy that is extremely unwilling to buy new/msrp, so I'm looking used. I'm patient, and can wait for the right bike to show up.

Originally I thought I wanted an old one because:

* cheaper used price
* Surly rabbit-hole rims
* Shimano crankset/derailleur
* Love the original green!

But the pluses of the new Krampus are (as I see them)

* Gnot-boost rear spacing
* Hydraulic brakes
* Cable-routing for a dropper?
* 11-42 cassette instead of 11-36?

Those last two are really insignificant. I don't know if Knards (old) or Dirt Wizards (new) are better for my dry/hard local conditions, but probably newer is better simply due to less wear, and 3" tires are spendy.

Is Gnot-boost rear spacing really that big a deal?

Also, what about size? At 6' tall, I've been happy on my 60cm CrossCheck for years. I'd think that would put me on a L Krampus, but that has an effective TT of 63.0/63.5 -- should I really be looking at a M?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RubeRad said:


> Was about to post a thread with exactly the same title, glad I searched first!
> 
> I have decided that my next (and possibly final!) MTB will be a Surly Knard. I'm the kind of guy that is extremely unwilling to buy new/msrp, so I'm looking used. I'm patient, and can wait for the right bike to show up.


So to be clear it's really two different bikes you are looking at not a slight variation on the same bike. Most importantly the tubeset used is quite different with the newer bike being stiffer. There are a number of other geo and spec differences as well.

I had started thinking about getting a new MK3 Krampus because I wanted a longer bike, but chatting with folks who have both convinced me I didn't want the stiffer/newer model as I really like the amount of flex the legacy Krampus has. It feels good and makes pedalling it for 12hrs a day on tour a joy.

So I decided to keep my green machine and maybe just keep an eye out for a used frame one size bigger [med to lrg].

Depending on what's important to you going for the newer Krampus might be the best move, but I wanted to highlight that there are a lot of significant differences in how it will ride.


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## RubeRad (Jul 1, 2013)

Interesting. If you are tempted to size up M-->L, how tall are you? What size other bikes do you ride?

I am not at all competitive in my riding, casual and comfortable and fun is what I'm after. If I read you right, I think that points me back towards original.

My current hardtail has a thru-axle fork (and QR rear), going back to all QR would be a downgrade, but I could eventually upgrade to a lighter, newer fork.

So you say MK3, which implies 3 different models. Where's the dividing line between old and new?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I've ridden an original green Krampus for an hour here or there but never spent a ton of time on one. I did like it enough to want one. 
I finally bought a new black one. I'm 6'5" so I have an XL. I built it up from a frameset so I got first hand knowledge of the gnot boost. I like it and I totally see how it's awesome. I used the wheels from an older bike which had 135/100 Hopes. I got Wolftooth Boost spacers. Everything works mint. I could have only boosted the front wheel. The rear would have dropped right in set up as a 142. 
It's my first steel bike in many years. I love how it feels.


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## RubeRad (Jul 1, 2013)

RubeRad said:


> I have decided that my next (and possibly final!) MTB will be a Surly *Knard*.


Oopx! Of course I meant KRAMPUS


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RubeRad said:


> Interesting. If you are tempted to size up M-->L, how tall are you? What size other bikes do you ride?


I'm 5'11" with 33" pants inseam. A medium Krampus fits me fine. The reason I want a longer bike is that the other newer geo bikes I am riding are longer so it just "feels" easier to switch back and forth between longer bikes. It's not a matter of not fitting on a medium. I've done 12hrs+ days back to back for a week+ on the medium with no comfort issues.



RubeRad said:


> I am not at all competitive in my riding, casual and comfortable and fun is what I'm after. If I read you right, I think that points me back towards original.
> 
> My current hardtail has a thru-axle fork (and QR rear), going back to all QR would be a downgrade, but I could eventually upgrade to a lighter, newer fork.


I don't think being casual or competitive steers you one way or the other. I would look at the geo of each bike, decide if you want a stiffer or more flexible frame and decide which bike has the features you like better.

There is no right or wrong here....just some different choices.

I use my Krampus for bikepacking so the MK1 makes the most sense. If I was using it as a trail bike and hammering steep gnarly trails for 2-3hrs at a go I'd be inclined to try the MK3 with a dropper and a suspension fork.



RubeRad said:


> So you say MK3, which implies 3 different models. Where's the dividing line between old and new?


MK1 = green machine legacy Krampus
MK2 = Krampus Ops
MK3 = current generation Krampus


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## RubeRad (Jul 1, 2013)

Ah, MK2=Ops, that makes sense.

This blog post is very informative.

Rack braze-ons on the chainstays is another plus for new. Braze-ons on the fork is nice, but not a huge deal. And tubeless-ready makes me look at the Alex rims in a new light.



> I use my Krampus for bikepacking so the MK1 makes the most sense. If I was using it as a trail bike and hammering steep gnarly trails for 2-3hrs at a go I'd be inclined to try the MK3 with a dropper and a suspension fork.


I'm not a hammerer, and steep/gnarly is beyond my skill/fitness (and I'm not getting any younger). So still MK1 seems like probably the better choice for me, but if a MK3 came available on CL for the right price, I'm sure I could make it work.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RubeRad said:


> Ah, MK2=Ops, that makes sense.
> 
> This blog post is very informative.
> 
> Rack braze-ons on the chainstays is another plus for new. Braze-ons on the fork is nice, but not a huge deal. And tubeless-ready makes me look at the Alex rims in a new light.


I don't want any fork braze-ons so that never mattered to me. I don't like having stuff attached to my fork. YMMV so if that's a feature you want the newer bike has it.

I set up Rabbit Holes tubeless in about 30mins and that setup has been flawless for thousands of KMs of riding.

https://vikapproved.wordpress.com/2014/04/21/surly-knard-rabbit-hole-tubeless/


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## RubeRad (Jul 1, 2013)

Yeah, I'm not crazy about fork braze-ons, but it might be useful to temporarily add an extra water bottle cage for a long ride. nbd there.

Thx for the tubeless link! I've wondered about tubeless with rabbit holes. Is that the blue duct tape you used for a rimstrip? Did you double it over or stick two strips together so it's not all sticky where it pokes through?



> tip - if bead won't seat [CO2 blowing out sides] use a cargo strap of tape all the way around the tire to compress it a bit



That's genius! compressing the center of the tire all the way around will push the beads outwards, making the gaps that much smaller, so a floor pump can get the job done!

Another tip that has helped me; put a regular tube in and seat both beads, then crack just one bead and take the tube out, that way you only have to worry about seating one bead.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RubeRad said:


> Yeah, I'm not crazy about fork braze-ons, but it might be useful to temporarily add an extra water bottle cage for a long ride. nbd there.
> 
> Thx for the tubeless link! I've wondered about tubeless with rabbit holes. Is that the blue duct tape you used for a rimstrip? Did you double it over or stick two strips together so it's not all sticky where it pokes through?












I used DT and stem mounted bottles for ~2.25L of water. I carried a 2L dromedary bag in my pack, but left it empty unless I was needing extra water for a long dry stretch or I was at the last creek before camp...then I would fill it temporarily and empty first to get rid of the weight.

Yes that's blue duct tape. Just lay it in the rim and put the split tube over it.


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## RubeRad (Jul 1, 2013)

So how does it stay blue? Doesn't it eventually get covered in dust and sand and pebbles that stick to it?

And I'm curious; what's that other surly you got back there?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RubeRad said:


> So how does it stay blue? Doesn't it eventually get covered in dust and sand and pebbles that stick to it?
> 
> And I'm curious; what's that other surly you got back there?


The blue side is not the glue side. The glue side is actually white and it goes up against the split tube.

The other Surly is an original Big Dummy cargo bike.


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## RubeRad (Jul 1, 2013)

Oh of course, now I see it! At first I was thinking that whole cargo deck was a table or something that the rest of the bike was behind.


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## RubeRad (Jul 1, 2013)

Another Q about your tubeless. If/when the tires wear out, or for some other reason you need to take them off and reinstall them, do you need to sacrifice new tubes? Seems like after trimming them close there would be no way to get them into the bead again. Or what if you made the tube narrower and gorilla-taped it onto the rim, and let the tire just engage directly with the bead channel (as designed)? Is there enough rim at the edges of the rabbit holes to prevent leaks?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't swap tires frequently so it's not am issue for me. If you want you can just use gorilla tape and a tubeless valve stem. I haven't done that with Rabbit Holes but some folks have done tubeless that way.

Flats have been rare and when they happened I just used tubeless plugs to fix the leak so I didn't pull the tire off the rim. 

I don't cut the split tube super close to the bead so I think it would be fine to pop the bead and reinstall it but I haven't had to do that.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Keep in mind that the Rabbit Holes are not designed for tubeless so you'll need finese the bead area with a gorilla tape setup to ensure a bombproof seal. Split tube is dead easy and once sealed it's actually quite hard to separate the tube from the bead.


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