# Ultimate bike light search



## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

I am searching for the ultimate LED bicycle light, I need as much info as possible.

I just bought one then realized that does not have a voltage regulator in it.:madman: 

Price does matter. But so does every thing else.

The Geoman Magic light looks like a good deal but.... as usual there are problems. I like the vision-x lights and am not bothered by the weight.

I would really like to find other P7 lights....and please tell us more about your favorite.

PLEASE DON'T BE RUDE


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The "ultimate LED bicycle light" and "price does matter" don't really go hand in hand.

I would just get the DX P7 LED light.
Here's the link.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25149

A lot of bang for the buck.
Geoman sells the light above that has been hgone through and made right.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

El34 said:


> The "ultimate LED bicycle light" and "price does matter" don't really go hand in hand.
> 
> I would just get the DX P7 LED light.
> Here's the link.
> ...


He did already. Yesterday.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3056670&postcount=9

Jawnn the light is regulated.

_"Digital Regulated 2400mA Current Output"_

It has high/low and flashing modes. Please try it and report back in the twenty threads you have started on this search for the ultimate bike light.


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## 96m2comp (Oct 12, 2007)

El34 said:


> A lot of bang for the buck.
> Geoman sells the light above that has been _*gone through and made right*_.


EL34, what do you mean by "Made right"?

T.Y!
Chris


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I mean that Geoman goes through each DX LED light and makes sure they are made right inside before they are shipped out.

I have heard that the quality has improved quite a bit on the DX lights, so this may not be an issue any more like the first DX lights that were shipped.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

El34 said:


> I mean that *Geoman* goes through each DX LED light and makes sure they are made right inside before they are shipped out..


Did you hear that from him? :skep: Just wondering because I was thinking the same thing myself only with me it was just a gut feeling. If Geoman actually does inspect all the lights ( even test them ) that would definitely make me buy from him rather than from DX.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Jeez, I don't know for sure, I have just read several of his post.
I was under the impression that he took each light apart and gave it the once over before shipping it out.

I guess you would have to ask him exactly what it is that he does to the lights.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Did you hear that from him? :skep: Just wondering because I was thinking the same thing myself only with me it was just a gut feeling. If Geoman actually does inspect all the lights ( even test them ) that would definitely make me buy from him rather than from DX.


Don't worry, I had a friend drop off two lights he recieved today from DX for me to check over and make good if necessary.
Well there is nothing for me to do, LED is held down with two screws, thermal past very well applied in the right places(cheap thermal paste though) and no swarf.

The Geoman ones do come with a very long cable, 50ish inch for helmet mounting as there will be a helmet mount available for it soon while the two I havve from DX have a cable lengh of 28ish inches.

Sad thing for me was that he was going buy one of my lights but I just can't compete with that price.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

50,ish inch cable?

wow, that seems long.

I put 24" cables on my lights and about 12 inches on the battery packs.
They fit down into my pack from my helmet nicely at that length.

I guess if you had a huge torso 50 inches would be just right.


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*Heat sinking*

The only problem that I am having with the light is the lack of heat sinking....the head gets too hot to hold on high beam. This may not be a problem whilest moving or in the winter air, but I sure cant use it as a work light.

Has there been any problem with these light burning out?

I like the flashing mode for traffic.....

I don't trust DX.....



znomit said:


> He did already. Yesterday.
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3056670&postcount=9
> 
> Jawnn the light is regulated.
> ...


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

> The only problem that I am having with the light is the lack of heat sinking


If the head is hot, then it is sinking the heat, otherwise it would not be hot and the LED would probably explode from lack of heat sinking.

You don't hold onto lights with your hand? 

In the winter, lights make great hand warmers when your finger tips are cold.


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

does that mean none of these lights have over heated while the bike is standing still???????????

the reason I ask is that the vision x has almost 4 lbs aluminum to sink the heatr and the Magic shine has only .5lbs. And I was thinking about adding more cooling fins.



El34 said:


> If the head is hot, then it is sinking the heat, otherwise it would not be hot and the LED would probably explode from lack of heat sinking.
> 
> You don't hold onto lights with your hand?
> 
> In the winter, lights make great hand warmers when your finger tips are cold.


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

please tell us what you think is the best led light and why...not just that you like it, but the real resons.

has any one tryed this light: http://martin-led.com/

I would realy like to find like the magic shine that has 30 dgree lenses rather than the "not so good" reflector and use three of them.

what is so good about the Nite Rider lights that they can charge so much money?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

> vision x has almost 4 lbs aluminum to sink the heatr and the Magic shine has only .5lbs


 
The magic shine body works just fine.
A large block of aluminum holds onto the heat.
A thin block does not.

Why are CPU heat sinks very thin and not a huge block of aluminum?

I think you are mentally hashing this stuff over and over way too much.

LED bike lighting is not rocket science.

You don't need big fat chunks of aluminum for heat sinks.


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

jawnn said:


> please tell us what you think is the best led light and why...not just that you like it, but the real resons.
> 
> has any one tryed this light: http://martin-led.com/
> 
> ...


I don't normally reply to posts in this manner. However, with only a few posts, (and the ones I have seen) you seem to have an entitlement issue. Others on this forum are not your research wenches. There are tons of reviews of lights/beamshots/comparisons all over MTBR and CPF. Figure your budget, firgure your needs, then search. There is no real way for any of US to tell you what YOUR best light would be. We don't even know your budget.


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

He wants a $10 light that won't overheat and puts out close to 1000lumens...

Sorry jawnn, I've seen your posts here and on CPF. You need to stop thinking about so much and just buy a [email protected] light already. Seriously, there are plenty of inexpensive options that will do just fine for recumbent tricycle commuting.


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## Romic tech (Sep 30, 2004)

Anybody tried one of these?

http://www.magnalight.com/pc-2046-1...t--800-lumens--2-inch-square--stud-mount.aspx


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Romic tech said:


> Anybody tried one of these?
> 
> http://www.magnalight.com/pc-2046-1...t--800-lumens--2-inch-square--stud-mount.aspx


Looks like rubbish based on the specifications.
Power draw of under 250mA at 12V means 3W. No way 800lm.


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*opinions*

thanks for being so rude...I will keep that in mind next time I want to hear other peoples oppinions. Do you think that this an attack on the expensive lights? Sorry that you are so paranoid....I just thought I might learn somethhing.....



hiroshima said:


> I don't normally reply to posts in this manner. However, with only a few posts, (and the ones I have seen) you seem to have an entitlement issue. Others on this forum are not your research wenches. There are tons of reviews of lights/beamshots/comparisons all over MTBR and CPF. Figure your budget, firgure your needs, then search. There is no real way for any of US to tell you what YOUR best light would be. We don't even know your budget.


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*cooling fins*

I was thinking of putting cooling fins on it, between the existing ones, but if no one else has any problems with over heating while the bike is standing still , I wont bother.



El34 said:


> The magic shine body works just fine.
> A large block of aluminum holds onto the heat.
> A thin block does not.
> 
> ...


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

jawnn I think you'll find most of us don't stand still for any length of time with our lights on full.

You mention something about a work light? If it is to be used as a work light then this is probably the wrong forum to be asking as we generally make lights that are cooled by air passing over them. If by work light you mean a light you can do trail side repairs with then I think you'll find most "low beam" settings will be ample for that type of repair. Sorry I can't comment exactly about the lights you have linked as I don't have either.

As for El34, I came to the same conclusions about Geoman based simply from what I have read in various forums. Have always assumed that he checks the lights personally.

Jawnn, the best led light is my triple Q2 "achselot" style because that's what I've got. Sadly I killed the driver in my triple MC-E because i didn't clean the swarth out of the housing properly, otherwise that would have got my vote. Soon it will be my double quad xp-g that will be the best. The general theme here is the light I have is the best for me 

Good luck with your search and please make sure you update this thread with the light you decide on, that'll help others research in the future


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*magna/vision*

this is the same as the vision x ...recon they are only 13 oz ....the only bad thing I see is the fact that you have to add the batterys.



Romic tech said:


> Anybody tried one of these?
> 
> http://www.magnalight.com/pc-2046-1...t--800-lumens--2-inch-square--stud-mount.aspx


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*The price is coming down*

I think the XP-G will produce some verrrrrry bright affordable lights....But it will probably be next year before they are available. But I can't help but think there are more P7 lights out there right now.

Yes I will turn the light down when stoped for a chat. or put some larger cooling fin on it.



emu26 said:


> jawnn I think you'll find most of us don't stand still for any length of time with our lights on full.
> 
> You mention something about a work light? If it is to be used as a work light then this is probably the wrong forum to be asking as we generally make lights that are cooled by air passing over them. If by work light you mean a light you can do trail side repairs with then I think you'll find most "low beam" settings will be ample for that type of repair. Sorry I can't comment exactly about the lights you have linked as I don't have either.
> 
> ...


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*Martin LED*

This is a nice lookiing one http://martin-led.com/

It must use a P7....maybe it will change to an XP-G later?


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

I would look at the beam shots. The beams look horrible to me with huge holes and rings. Still not going to get 900 lumens either.


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*beam width*

if the beam is 20 degrees the width at 20ft would be about 7ft wide...but does that include the spill? I need some width at the hot spot.

So is there any lights that can do this....????? 
and with out the dark spot????



zen bicycle said:


> I would look at the beam shots. The beams look horrible to me with huge holes and rings. Still not going to get 900 lumens either.


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Road is about 8 feet wide so yes I think it is possible. The trash can is about 20 feet from the camera/light source.


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*Confused out of my mind*

Is all this true???

Depending on the your speed you will watch the road at different distances. I ride slow and watch the road at about 20ft.

The SST-50 with an OP reflector 20 degree beam and defuser lens to reduce the rings would be the best lite for me. But some wouold need a "thrower" beam found in the flashlights.

The SST-50, XP-G, XR-E, and XP-E leave no black hole in the center of the beam unlike the SSC-P7 and MC-E LED's.

:madman: 
So I think I want a light simular to the Martin lamp but with an SST-50 to eleminate the dark spot.... and coolling fins because it may make more heat?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

and here I was thinking you were posting back to tell us you had found the perfect bike light and what it was


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Really~!? Just freaking buy a light already! I'm pretty sure that the $80 DX P7 light will knock your socks off. Or buy one of the quality units that the builders on this forum make.

Don't put extra cooling fins on anything, they will not work unless they are an integrated part of the aluminum housing. Don't wait for a SST based light, they will only be equal to any P7 or MC-E light and they will be expensive at first. Don't worry about the black hole on the P7 or MC-E, most good optics will minimize it to the point of irrelevance.

Have you actually tried any lights in the flesh yet? Don't post any more useless questions until you have seen what the modern crop of LED lights is capable of with your own eyes. Most of them are completely adequate for your needs.

THERE IS NO PERFECT BIKE LIGHT!!!!! But there are many that are very, very good and ridiculously cheap.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

LOL

:band:


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

StevelKnivel said:


> Really~!? Just freaking buy a light already! I'm pretty sure that the $80 DX P7 light will knock your socks off. Or buy one of the quality units that the builders on this forum make.
> 
> Don't put extra cooling fins on anything, they will not work unless they are an integrated part of the aluminum housing. Don't wait for a SST based light, they will only be equal to any P7 or MC-E light and they will be expensive at first. Don't worry about the black hole on the P7 or MC-E, most good optics will minimize it to the point of irrelevance.
> 
> ...


Hey Steve,
I've always found that when something is bugging me I am best to air it and get it off my chest, maybe you should try that too :lol:

Thank-you, that's made my morning


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

I say screw it, he should just go pick up some night vision goggles. Then he does not have to worry about throw, beam patterns, overheating LED's, and the multitude of other things that are ominously looming on the horizon. 

Bike lights: almost as complicated as a thermal nuclear device.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

StevelKnivel said:


> Really~!? Just freaking buy a light already! I'm pretty sure that the $80 DX P7 light will knock your socks off.


He has one already.  
Personally I think if thats not enough a bit of HTFU is in order.


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

hiroshima said:


> Bike lights: almost as complicated as a thermal nuclear device.


Thats really cracked me up!!!!    

At lest with a thermal nuclear device you dont have to worry about spread and throw. Maybe he'll want one of my 24 XP-G Firestarters!!


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

I have to disagree with you Piesoup.... I think designers of thermal nuclear devices do worry about spread and throw...


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

Tamen, I don't think the nuclear blokes work to nanometers like the Ultimate Bike Light needs to be!! 
Maybe cold fusion will produce the perfect spread?!!


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*More QUESTIONS?*

Useless questions??? to you... or me? don't bother to read this forum if you can't handle the questions.

I found that the SST-50 produces only 500 lumins, for some reason I thought it would do twice that.

I recon the Quads (p7 and mc-e) are the brightest. And for the money the chineese 'Geoman magic shine' light is the best.

Yes I have it and it works fine. But Why should I not search for an even better one?

I still have not heard the arguments for the very expinsive lights.



StevelKnivel said:


> Have you actually tried any lights in the flesh yet?
> 
> Don't post any more useless questions until you have seen what the modern crop of LED lights is capable of with your own eyes.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

The DIY forum is one of the lower conflict forums I have come across. 
Many of us here build, share information, contribute to the knowledge base, etc....
From seeing your posts both here and on CPF you seem to be a forum troll.

#1 Argue with any true contribution
#2 Ask questions without really ever resolving them
#3 Bumping your own threads when no one posts to them

Build something and post it.
Ask very specific questions about something that you are building. We will help you.
Demanding that we argue lumens, cooling, or opinions on lights to your satisfaction isn't something any of us here are interested in.

Then again maybe nobody wants to respond because you ride a trike...........


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*ok I finnish this one*

....the conclusion is that the one I got is the best I can find for now.

I hear there is an even brighter light than the SST-50...the SST-90 but it sounds like its too bright and would use too much juice for a bike.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have been asked to help out a guy who rides a recument and wants a light but the mounting points are pretty bad , he is coming to see me with his bike tomorrow .
to see if I can help him to get the perfect or as near to that as possible light for his commute .

so it would help me out if you could explain to me what the perfect light for a recumbent cycle would consist of .

as I see it if you put it on the front it will be too low and make small bumbs seem large and it will be too far away to control .

in my mind I see a helmet light like a dinotte with the rear led also on the helmet 
it is as high as possible and controlable has the safety feature of the rear red light 
and points down the road where you look .

do you have any other ideas I could use for this guy. and no I am not trolling this is a genuine request.


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## billysorton (Jul 29, 2007)

Beamshots galore, bikes and flashlights. http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> I have been asked to help out a guy who rides a recument and wants a light but the mounting points are pretty bad , he is coming to see me with his bike tomorrow .
> to see if I can help him to get the perfect or as near to that as possible light for his commute .
> 
> so it would help me out if you could explain to me what the perfect light for a recumbent cycle would consist of .
> ...


Troutie I've actually been thinking about this. A recumbent is quite low so you need a very narrow beam, XP-E with aspherics and a normal optic to smooth things out? Depending on the bike the pedals etc might cast shadows from a helmet light. 
I'm quite liking this mount solution http://lightonlights.com/dynolight/


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Znomit good thinking I have no recumbent experience and never thought about the pedals being as high as they are .

also following your thinking there a helmet light will just light up the riders rotating legs and be a distraction .

I like the aspheric idea too and can see the advantage of the narrow beam .

had a look at a pic of his bike and my thoughts were the head stock cap to replace it with a mount and light so it turns with the wheel but then I thought about on off and dimming would need a long wire for a remote switch .

but the thin narrow beam would be perfect for not annoying oncomming traffic

so hows about a triple XPE/G with 2 of the tiny aspherics I have and 1 eliptical optic for a flat flood .


now another question if the driver was in with the battery could that be near the rider for the controls with long supply wires to the light head


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> so hows about a triple XPE/G with 2 of the tiny aspherics I have and 1 eliptical optic for a flat flood .
> 
> now another question if the driver was in with the battery could that be near the rider for the controls with long supply wires to the light head


Yeah spider eyes #2

You can run long wires. Personally I would rather keep the driver near the head and run wires to the rider/battery. You can do dual mom switches and stat leds. 
Note with long battery leads you're supposed to put some noise suppression caps on
See _connections_ here for details but same for taskled I think (the taskled forum is down rft: )
http://www.leddynamics.com/LuxDrive/datasheets/3021-BuckPuck.pdf


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Can you post a pic of the bike. Have some mounting Ideas floating around, but not sure if they would work.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

zen bicycle said:


> Can you post a pic of the bike. Have some mounting Ideas floating around, but not sure if they would work.


Cheers Zen


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/light-mounts.asp#nob


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

jawnn said:


> I found that the SST-50 produces only 500 lumins, for some reason I thought it would do twice that.


How about 1250?


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## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

Do try to assemble the driver close to the LED's. Long switch wires and long battery wires are better than long wires from the driver. A large value cap on the driver (as posted) will kill most of the gremlins. That trike looks nice. The only PIA I can see is initial alignment of the lamp housing. Lots of room for battery. lol


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

OK, here is what I have bee nthinking, either a seperate light on each rear wheel fender, or something that attaches on the rear seat support posts that goes up over the sholders. This does a couple of things

More visibility to other vehicles, especially the width aspect. 
Good beam spread
Drivers, battery and switches can all be centrally mounted around seat
Should mostly eliminate shadow issues.

Any way my thoughts

Drawing is to scale and anatomically correct


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Zen you are in the wrong forum have you thought about portrait painting forums.
that is brilliant.:lol:

He has a helmet mounted light and wants one on the front for off road duties 
so he is having a Troutlight LL and I am making a new cap for the fork headset with a mount on it for him .


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*Sst-50*

As for the best light, I would wait for one of the new SST-50 (next year?) the can produce more light than anything , and if three are run at 500 lumins each thats 1500 with out the excess heat that runing them at full blast would cause, making them last a lot longer.

Just ask all the light makers what their plans are.



troutie-mtb said:


> Cheers Zen you are in the wrong forum have you thought about portrait painting forums.
> that is brilliant.:lol:
> 
> He has a helmet mounted light and wants one on the front for off road duties
> so he is having a Troutlight LL and I am making a new cap for the fork headset with a mount on it for him .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Jawnn 
I have a sst 50 top bin and am not blown away with it in the optics have tried 
then there is the issue of a driver to whack out 5 amps .

The recumbent guy is very happy to have 2000 lumens on tap from a 6 XPG light and bespoke mount this year well next month hopefully .

and the optic choice is far better than for the sst50


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*head set light mount*

I use a bar stem in the head set with a shim...then cut off bars to hold the lights. they turn when the whell turns but not a problem.

what is "trolling" they wer accusing me of that also.... I realy need to stay off this forum.:madman:


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*conclusion/ what I learned*

Besides needing more beam shots of the bike lites.

The Chinese light has a dark spot in the middle of the beam because it uses an SSC-P7 quad die LED. It does not throw well because it makes a wide beam, the wider the beam the less bright it appears. So I want two wide beam SST-50's and a triple XP-G thrower beam.

Now there is going to be a 3300-lumen lamp using a Bridgelux C2000&#8230;not good for regular bikes.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

perfect beam shot from the perfect light


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## Huxley555 (May 24, 2009)

Not enough spread, could do with some better optics perhaps?

Good idea mounting them on the mud flaps thing is won't any vibration cause them to move about it might not be a secure location, steerer tube looks good to me, a liberator wit some choice optics would look very nice up front with the switch moved back to the rider.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Huxley555 said:


> Not enough spread, could do with some better optics perhaps?
> 
> Good idea mounting them on the mud flaps thing is won't any vibration cause them to move about it might not be a secure location, steerer tube looks good to me, a liberator wit some choice optics would look very nice up front with the switch moved back to the rider.


Ey up Hux 
The perfect light has a variable aperture from spot to flood but thor the thunder god is controling it in the pic

He is having a liberator and I am making him a new cap for the steerer tube to include a mount


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## Huxley555 (May 24, 2009)

Ideal, makes sense to me as that way you can control exactly where the light throws not to mention the trout would make for a nice figurehead.:thumbsup:


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

jawnn said:


> I realy need to stay off this forum.:madman:


What happened? 

Kidding.

Just thought you may want to know. I was working on a back yard project with my MS P7 last night. Had the light on Med for 3 hours in temps ranging from 80-85 degrees with ZERO air movement.

You mentioned needing a work light. I was using it as one and it worked out great. I had my Dinotte 400L on high and the MS P7 on Med and both heads got warm but not hot. Neither had any sign of issues.

The MS on MED was perfect as a worklight as High washed out too much detail (I was setting walking pavers)

I posted beamshots of the light on the street a few weeks back so those may be of help.


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## daniel58 (Sep 27, 2008)

*More Magicshine P7 Product Information*



jawnn said:


> I am searching for the ultimate LED bicycle light, I need as much info as possible.
> 
> I just bought one then realized that does not have a voltage regulator in it.:madman:
> 
> ...





johnnyspoke said:


> I have one of the Magishine lights from Geoman. HOLY SMOKES it's bright. I used to run to dinotte 200l's....this is quite a bit brighter. I still run one dinotte on my helmet, but I can't really see it unless I look a different direction than the bars are pointing. For 89 bucks shipped, it's really a screaming deal. If I was getting a couple lights with a 200 budget, I'd look no further. Heck, even if I had DOUBLE to spend, I'd get the magicshines and use the rest for other stuff.


Cool feedback; nice to hear Magicshine Led Lightset handily beats the Dinotte 200Lumen LED Lightset engine.

Magicshine High Intensity LED Lightset based on the newly updated SSC-P7 Seoul Semiconductor quad core chip LED which typically produces 700lm when current is driven thru the LED chip at 2800mA with a forward voltage of 3.6V and able to produce 90 lumens per watt of energy consumed.

Post generally discusses comparing the SSC-P7 based LED Lightset 666lumen (Magicshine) versus the SSC-P4 based LED Lightset 200lumen (Dinotte 200L).

Parameters compared:

Cost per lumen comparison
battery run times comparison
physical setup comparison
physical configuration comparison
mounting options comparison
extending lightset run times comparison
lithium ion battery chemistry options comparison
LED Lightset beam quality comparisons hi/med/low intensities comparison
LED Lightset specifications comparison
Total Power in Watts generated by battery comparison
Total Power consumed at full load per hour-- high intensity comparison
Total Current consumed at full load power per hour -- high intensity comparison
Total Current consumed at low load -- low intensity -- low intensity comparison
Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination comparison
Total Power consumed at low illumination -- low intensity comparison
How many hours at low power with rated battery pack -- low intensity comparison
How many Lumens generated by LED Lamp at full power -- high intensity comparison
How many watts consumed by lamp at full illumination -- high intensity comparison
How many hours at high power with rated battery pack -- high intensity comparison
How much current consumed by LED lamp at medium power -- medium intensity comparison
How many watts consumed by LED lamp at medium power -- medium intensity comparison
How many hours at medium power with rated battery pack -- medium intensity comparison
Detailed indepth review on the SSC-P7 based LED Lightset 666lumen (Magicshine)
regarding above line item parameters

post has been revised to include all of the above information as of Oct 15 900am.

read/review post information and comment on any of the above line item parameters above if you have any information to add, amplify, or clarify that would make it a better and more informative posting for the benefit of the forum community readers; as that is purpose of posting.
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Dinotte 200L-AA-S Bike Headlight is a basic solid entry level 200lumen lightset that uses conventional readily obtainable rechargeable/disposable "AA" batteries almost everywhere inexpensively.

Dinotte 200L-AA-S Bike Headlight retails for approximately $150 that yields approximately 75cents per lumen which is a great deal for a great and well known reputable LED Lightset thrower/illuminator. (link provided for your reference if needed):

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_143922_-1_201529_10000_201537

The Magicshine MJ-808 retails for approximately $85 that yields approximately 12.8cents per lumen assuming approximately 666lumens, which is a great deal for a great throwing and illuminating LED Lightset that is giving the major light engine manufacturers a serious run for their money. (link provided for your reference if needed):

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php...ducts_id=138&zenid=tt8s64l8vo6338paikjv9i1732

Even better still get an additional Magicshine LED Lightset, one for the helmet mount and one for the handlebar mount to double up on illumination; with one providing fixed illumination duties on the handlebars and the other one providing variable point to shoot flood/spill illumination on the helmet.::thumbsup:

Now of course if one needed, wanted or desired to construct a "betty killer" illumination setup on a budget, one could always combo a third Magicshine on the handlebar and aim one far away down the road in the distance and one closer in front of the bicycle wheel so as to provide general flood illumination in front of the wheel as well as provide generally more dedicated far away illumination in the distance.:thumbsup: 

An added advantage of such a "betty killer" configuration setup would be the actual beam width would be naturally doubled also as well by having a double led lightset engine upfront as opposed to only a single lightset engine configuration setup.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The helmet mounted configuration would still be providing variable point to shoot flood/spill illumination on the helmet in its normally advantageous higher mounted illumination light source mounting position.

The combination of the three independent lighting sources (2handlebar/1helmet) even on the medium setting on the Magicsine LED Lightset (which is rated for 500lumens apiece) times three led light sources would add up to 1,500lumens; making the triple Magicshine LED Lightset a potential "betty killer" customized hybrid LED light configuration setup for less than $255.:thumbsup:

By running the Magicshine LED Lightset at only the medium(500lument) setting one can extend and optimize the total LED lightset total runtime to four hours or so; while still outputting sufficient the same 1500lumens lumination intensity.

Extending total light output plus 500Lumen High Power LED Lightset runtimes beyond fours is not only feasible but easily obtainable/affordable via cheap upgrades to the Li-Ion battery subsystem via an external battery pack. (link provided for your reference if needed):

Higher quality newer Polymer Li-Ion chemistry 9aH external battery pack $80.00(not composed of 18650 cells) but composed of two 3.7V 9aH Polymer Li-Ion cells(good for >500recharges) $8.88 per amp::thumbsup:

http://www.batteryspace.com/polymerli-ionbattery74v9ah666whwithpcb.aspx

For those concerned with their Li-Ion chemistry external battery pack catching fire one can always opt for the safer alternative of encasing the external battery pack in an accompanying enclosure.:thumbsup:

Higher quality newer Polymer Li-Ion chemistry 10aH external battery pack $140.00(also not composed of 18650 cells) but composed of four 3.7V 5aH Polymer Li-Ion cell(good for >500recharges) $14.00 per amp complete with trail tech connectors:

http://www.batteryspace.com/polymer...wh7arateinplasticenclsouretrial-techplug.aspx

For those concerned with their Li-Ion chemistry external battery pack catching fire one can always opt for the safer alternative of encasing the external battery pack in an accompanying enclosure while extending their total training run times for ultra-long illumination intervals an option might be.

Higher quality newer Polymer Li-Ion chemistry 25.2aH external battery pack $180.00(also not composed of 18650 cells) but composed of four 7.4V 12.6aH Polymer Li-Ion cell(good for >500recharges) $7.14 per amp complete with trail tech connectors::thumbsup:

http://www.batteryspace.com/polymerli-ionboxbattery74v252ah18648wh14aratewithtrial-techplug.aspx

The interesting thing with the mega capacity $180.00 25.2aH external Polymer Li-Lion battery pack would be capable of running all three Magicshine LED Lightsets in "betty killer 1500lumen mode" for approximately 7.5hours and still have the original three 4.4aH Magicshine Li-Ion batteries using them as backup for a total combined estimated run time of 11.5hours while still coming in well under betty budget busing led lightset and battery upgrade prices -->>$255 triple Magicshine MJ-808 plus $180 enhanced Polymer Li-Ion external battery subsystem equals $435 (29cents per lumen-->>1,500lumens) for the ultimate customized 1,500lumen "betty killer" running for up to 11.5 hours non-stop. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

feel free to chime in with feedback response and/or ideas on the ultimate "betty killer" mode design.
------------------------
for your reference I have included a weblink that illustrates some of the major LED Lightset manufactures and their respective beam characteristic patterns:

http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/
------------------------
for your reference I have also in addition included the link of the Magicshine Lightset Manufacturer MJ-808 for their specification page below:

http://www.headlamp.cn/productsShow.asp?id=321
-------------------------
from the above specified link for the MinJin and geomangear (http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?...38paikjv9i1732
) one can derive:

The batteries are 7.4VDC lithium ion batteries with 4.4AH of capacity that drives the battery for about three hours
and the low brightness illumination setting is 30percent of total illumination (200 lumens) and the medium brightness illumination
setting is five hundred lumens.
--------------------------
Now using rudimentary high school electricity/physics equations:

Power equals Voltage times Current

Voltage equals Current times Resistance

Voltage equals Power divided by Current

Resistance equals Voltage divided by Current

Current equals Voltage divided by Resistance
------------------------
From the above source known values one can find:
------------------------
Total Power in Watts generated by battery:

Power equals Voltage times Current

Power equals 7.4VDC times 4.4AH

Power equals 32.56Watts generated by battery over three hours:thumbsup: 
------------------------
Total Power consumed at full load per hour:

Power equals Total Power divided by Time

Power equals 32.56Watt divided by three hours

Power equals 10.85Watts consumed at full load per hour:thumbsup: 
------------------------
Total Current consumed at full load power per hour:

Total Current equals Power consumed in hour at full load divided by Voltage

Total Curent equals 10.85Watts divided by 7.4VDC

Total Current equals 1.466AH per hour:thumbsup: 
---------------------------
Total Current consumed at 30 percent full load (low Magicshine setting):

Low illumination current (200lumens) equals Total Current time 30 percent of total current full load current illumination

Low illumination current (200lumens) equals 1.46AH time 0.30

Low illumination current (200lumens) equals 440maH at 200lumens:thumbsup: 
----------------------------
Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination:

Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination equals low illumination current consumed divided by Lumen

Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination equals 440mA divided by one Lumen

Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination equals 2.2ma/Lumen:thumbsup: 
-----------------------------
Total Power consumed at low illumination Magicshine setting (200lumens) equals Voltage times Current

Total Power consumed at low illumination Magicshne setting (200lumens) equals 7.4VDC times 440maH

Total Power consumed at low illumination Magicshine setting (200lumens) equals 3.26Watts low power wattage:thumbsup: 
-----------------------------
How many hours at low power (200lumens) illumination with 7.4VDC and 4.4aH rated Li-Ion battery

Time in hours at low illumination power setting(200lumens) equals Li-Ion Battery current rating divided per hour low setting current draw

Time in hours at low illumination power setting(200lumens) equals 4.4aH divided 440maH

Time in hours at low illumination power setting(200lumens) equals 10 hours:thumbsup: 
------------------------------
How many Lumens generated by Magicshine Lamp at high illumination setting at full power:

High illumination current flow equals 1.466aH

Current consumed per Lumen produced equals 2.2maH per Lumen

Lumens generated by Lamp at high illumination equals high illumination current flow divided by current consumed per lumen generated

Lumens generated by Lamp at high illumination equals 1.466aH divided by 2.2maH

Lumens generated by Lamp at high illumination equals 666Lumens:thumbsup:

Hey guys that's about what the max value for a type "C" bin P7 LED Lightset engine should produce ballpark depending on course of the particular driver used in application.
---------------------------------
How many watts consumed by lamp at full illumination.

Total Power consumed at high illumination Magicshine setting (666 lumens) equals Voltage times Current

Total Power consumed at high illumination Magicshne setting (666 lumens) equals 7.4VDC times 1.466aH

Total Power consumed at high illumination Magicshine setting (666lumens) equals 10.85Watts high power wattage:thumbsup:
---------------------------------
How many hours at high power (666lumens) illumination with 7.4VDC and 4.4aH rated Li-Ion battery

Time in hours at high illumination power setting(666lumens) equals Li-Ion Battery current rating divided per hour high setting current draw

Time in hours at high illumination power setting(666lumens) equals 4.4aH divided 1.466aH

Time in hours at high illumination power setting(666lumens) equals 3 hours:thumbsup:

Hey guys, that is about what everyone is getting about three hours on high Magicshine setting.
---------------------------------
How much current consumed by Lamp at Medium setting (500lumens)

Current consumed at Medium setting (500lumens) equals Medium lumens times maH per Lumens

Current consumed at Medium setting (500lumens) equals 500Lumens times 2.2maH per Lumen

Current consumed at Medium setting (500lumens) equals 1.10aH:thumbsup: 
-----------------------------------
How many watts consumed bye lamp at Medium (500lumens) illumination.

Total Power consumed at Medium illumination Magicshine setting (500 lumens) equals Voltage times Current

Total Power consumed at Medium illumination Magicshne setting (500 lumens) equals 7.4VDC times 1.10aH

Total Power consumed at Medium illumination Magicshine setting (500lumens) equals 8.14Watts Medium power wattage:thumbsup:
-----------------------------------
How many hours at Medium power (500lumens) illumination with 7.4VDC and 4.4aH rated Li-Ion battery

Time in hours at Medium illumination power setting(500lumens) equals Li-Ion battery current rating divided by per hour medium setting current draw.

Time in hours at Medium illumination power setting(500umens) equals 4.4aH divided by 1.10aH

Time in hours at Medium illumination power setting(500lumens) equals 4 hours:thumbsup:
-------------------------------------
Cheers, whew that was a heck of a review of high school electricity/physics review.

I actually had to crack open the books to review and practice.
--------------------------------------
Nice to review and know how to calculate the origins and answers from source derivative information but it all seems to check out as the answers seem to check out and are in what's called the "ball park" from what I have read on here in the mtbr and candlepower forums.
--------------------------------------
Review for Newly Purchased Magicshine MJ-808 P7 Based High Intensity LED Lightset Kit from Geoman is below as follows for your review and consideration:

Ordered the Magicshine P7 Based High Power LED Lightset Engine from Geoman. Order was processed promptly and accurately by Geoman. I am upgrading from a slightly dated led lightset in the form of a Princeton Switchback 1; so this will be a significant upgrade in terms of overall light lumen intensity.

I have seen some very good posted beamshots of the P7 Based Magicshine LED Lightset from a search on the internet; some very impressive looking illumination shots. I am willing to give the Magicshine MJ-808 high power led lightset the same chance I did with the Princeton Switchback I; as it looks like a great potential High Power Bicycle LED Lightset engine in the under one hundred dollar category.

As soon as I get the Magicshine after it ships from Geoman, I will factually share information of first product LED lightset impressions and in the field LED lightset impressions.

I got the Magicshine P7 Based High Power LED Lightset Engine from Geoman, the day after Columbus Day. Geoman by the way threw in the helmet mount as an added unexpected bonus to the Magicshine P7 based LED lightset kit. Many appreciative thanks to the Geoman or "G" Man for short.

I measured the Magicshine P7 based LED lightset head diameter dimension and it comes out to 1.5 inches and is 2 inches in lighthead depth for those concerned about it being bulky and/or heavy it definitely is lightweight as promised. The pushbutton on the back of the Magicshine LED lightset is about the size of a dime and is lit up with a green glowing LED when plugged into the 4.4aH Lithium Ion based battery pack.

The Magicshine lighthead bezel has a cool scalloped bezel design that makes it look very modern in styling. The Magicshine lighthead body behind the lighthead bezel has a concentric grooved cooling ridged design, with a professionally black anodized aluminum surface to help cool the LED lighthead.

The Magicshine lighthead power cord that goes to the external Lithium Ion based battery pack is a generous 45 inches long to allow the flexibility of mounting the battery pack wherever convienently desired.

If you enjoy the appearance and physical body design of the Lupine Tesla design this looks similar in most aspects and you will definitely like its cool, streamlined, sleek, lean body based looking LED Lightset design overall.

The external Lithium Ion battery pack is 2.75 inches height tall body and has side dimension of 1.5 inches on each side; so it is relatively small and lightweight with a nylon pouch included to allow one to wrap it underneath the handlebar near where the LED Lighthead is to be mounted on the handlebars.

The Magicshine P7 based lightset kit also comes with an AC adapter designed specifically to recharge the Lithium Ion based external battery pack rapidly/quickly and its DC output voltage is listed as 8.4VDC so as to enable the rapid recharging of the 7.4VDC external battery pack at a current rate of approximately 1.8aH equivalent to a recharging rate of 30ma per minute.

The external Lithium Ion battery pack only took about an hour to top off its charge and turn from the red glowing led on the recharging AC adapter to a green glowing led.

I followed the included yellow instruction sheet from the Geoman which clearly outlined the simple and self explanatory procedure to follow to cycle through the various five modes; the high, the med, the low mode intensities of illumination, along with the high frequency flash mode setting and the final strobe mode setting before going back to totally turning off the LED Lightset completely.

The two black latex mounting o-rings included are sized 1.5 and 2.0 inches respectively and the thickness of the two black latex mounting o-rings included are both 3/16 of an inch thick which looks like it can be bought at any local hardware store having black latex o-rings available or at geomangear for $4 for the small/large o-ring paired 1.5/2.0 inch o-ring set.

The included yellow instruction sheet also notes and mentions information regarding the lithium-ion battery should last approximately 300-500 charge/discharge cycles typically.

The sheet also mentions the lithium ion battery pack prefers partial discharges as opposed
to full discharges to lengthen, optimize and enhance the lithium ion battery packs longevity.

The lithium ion battery pack prefers to be discharged no more than 60% of total capacity:
4400maH times 0.60 equals 2,640maH. This would be equivalent to approzimately two and a quarter hours on medium(500lumens) illumination setting as a conservative estimate or alternatively one and three quarter hours on the highest illumination setting.

If one needed additional battery capacity requirements on the day of bicycle tour or ride as a battery backup or extension to battery reserve capacity; Geoman has spare/extra Lithium Ion battery packs for $40 per extra battery pack; also as well.

This is altogether, not a bad idea as in the colder upcoming autumn weather Lithium Ion battery pack capacity may be compromised by at least ten percent or more in total run time/capacity.

I will be taking the Magicshine P7 based lightset out on the local streets where I live with an outside temperature of about 48 degrees F here in New Jersey, running the lightset on the highest lumen P7 LED setting for about an hour or so in order to test the overall general lighting and beam width/depth/quality first impressions.

I will also use the helmet mounting option first as Geoman was so generous to have included it in the Magicshine lightset kit; so I figure I might as well test that also as well at the same time as testing the Magicshine Lightset overall.

Its was fairly easy and relatively self explanatory to use and mount the large two inch diameter black latex o-ring around the horn on the base of the LED Lightset and then thru the helmet mounting base and the other end of the o-ring around to the other side of the horn on the base of the LED Lightset to secure the Lightset engine securely.

The 3/16 of an inch thick black latex o-ring can best be fitted on the front horn best by first removing the small phillips head screw to facilitate the temporary removal of the black anodized aluminum base of the LED Lightset to initially set the black latex o-ring in its assigned channel due to the fact the front mounted lightset wire temporarily obstructs the path for securely inserting the black latex o-ring for its initial placement position in its channel/lip.

The utility of moving ones head is useful to custom aim/direct the Magicshine P7 Led Lightset where it is best illuminated and seen on the ground both in front of the bicycle as well as in the far off distance at high lumen intensity to evaluate the merits of overall general bicycle lighting and the desired beam width/depth/quality first impressions.

An additional added unintended potential benefit for both the touring and/or mountain bike cyclists might be the head mounted Magicshine P7 based Lightset Engine might better illuminate, reveal subsurface road obstructions and follow the irregular contours of the road better as well as reveal some of the more subtle shadows of road surface irregularities before inadvertently hitting them unintentionally; as a result of its higher vantage point helmet mounting position.

Furthermore an added unintentional potential consequential benefit of having the Magicshine P7 based Lightset Engine mounted on the helmet might also help to further stabilize and reduce the undesired vibratory artifactual visual illumination based bouncing/shaking effects of mounting the Magicshine P7 based Lightset Engine on the handlebars; for example while cycling on rough mountain trails, obstruction/roots strewn paths; one can dynamically aim ones head to light and illuminate the desired path ahead; well in advance.

Additionally, mountain/touring biking cyclists may also wish and/or desire getting a second Magicshine P7 based light engine also mounted on the helmet; to increase the depth, illumination and the desired characteristic led lightbeam width, shape and quality by aiming the two individual independent Magicshine Lightset Engines in combination together; one dedicated for close range illumination and the other for far away illumination; similar to benefits achieved using a double shot led lightset engine setup (i.e. cateye twinshot)

Moreover, having a second Magicshine P7 based light engine mounted on the helmet affords one additional adjustment and scalability options in the adjustment of the total lumens scalability value that can be selected by the user.

To help illustrate the point; reference column matrix below (reference column number by the bracket grouping):

First column ----->> First Led Lighthead(lumens) is streetside 
Second column ----->>Second Led Lighthead(lumens) is curbside
Third column ------>>Total Led Combination Lighthead(lumens) current draw along with battery run times for 4.4aH pack
Fourth column ------>>Derated battery run times for 4.4aH pack

(Off) / (200lumens(low)) / (200lumens equals 440ma / ten hours )--> (six hours(derated))

(200lumens(low)) / (200lumens(low)) / (400lumens equals 880ma / five hours) --> (three hours(derated))

(Off) / (500lumens(medium)) / (500lumens equals 1,100ma / four hours) --> (two hours +24min.(der.))

(Off) / (666lumens(high)) / (666lumens equals 1,466ma / three hours) --> (one hour +48min.(der.))

(200lumens(low)) / (500lumens(medium)) / (700lumens equals 1,540ma/two hours +51min)-->(one hr.+43min(der.))

(200lumens(low)) / (666lumens(high)) / (866lumens equals 1,905ma/two hours +18min)-->(one hr.+23min(der.))

(500lumens(medium)) / (500lumens(medium)) / (1,000lumens equals 2,200ma / two hours) -->(one hr.+12min.(derated))

(500lumens(medium)) / (666lumens(high)) / (1,166lumens equals 2,565ma / one hour +43min)-->(one hr.+2min(der.))

(666lumens(high)) / (666lumens(high)) / (1,332lumens equals 2,930ma / one hour +30min)-->(54minutes(derated))

The matrix table above shows just some of the potential possible combination that would become available for selection based on your personal preferences or circumstances on the night of the bicycle ride/tour.

Remember Lithium Ion batteries should not be discharged more than 60 per cent of total rated capacity.

4,400maH times 0.60 equals 2,640maH working current so make sure to derate the above calculated run times by 40 per cent,
in order to ensure one can potentially obtain the typical 500 Lithium Ion battery pack discharge cycles.

Derated run times is displayed for your reference if needed in the right last column in the matrix table.

Unfortunately, at the 1,000lumens, 1,166lumens and 1,322lumens illumination light levels the battery run times are only around an hour; so if continuous run times at these high intensity lumen light levels are anticipated, one would need extra Lithium Ion Battery packs to extend total run times to whatever one would need.

An investment in a quality P7 based Lightset is an investment in confident, safe and enjoyable nightime cycling. With that being said I will go into some amplifying details on some firsthand impressions of the Magicshine P7 based Lightset.

I definitely will have to say that the Magicshine P7 based Lightset Engine Kit is a very complete and impressively well put together kit; for the under the sub $100 category P7 based Lightset Engine.

The minimal very compact footprint profile and total weight of the lightset engine is sufficiently small that one can easily put two Magicshine Lightsets on ones helmet at the same time; as the lighthead is only about 240grams in weight along with its similarly lightweight and minimal 200gram external Lithium Ion based battery pack that is easily tucked away in ones rear cycling jersey pocket.

The forty-five inch cord from the lighthead that goes to the external battery pack is sufficiently long so as to easily reach ones rear cycling jersey pocket conveniently.

The dime sized rubber covered green glowing switch on the back of the lighthead has a nice tactile feedback quality and feel to it. The build qualty of the lighthead itself is decidedly excellent and solid in both feel and looks; which is very easy on the eyes due to the sleek black anodized coating on the lighthead's surface.

I went for my first ride last night with the Magicshine P7 based Lightset mounted on my helmet with the supplied helmet mounting bracket from Geoman. The helmet mount has a nice and great lightset head tilting adjustment feature that makes it easy to vary the vertical tilt angle evenly and smoothly in a controlled manner using only one hand; even while riding ones bicycle.

Kudos and many thanks to the Geoman for doing his homework and getting this helmet mounting bracket for his loyal and faithful customer/users; as I am sure that they will fully enjoy its exceptional utility and safety options it potentially offers to Magicshine Lightset users/customers.

All of you reading this are probably wondering how did the Magicshine P7 based Lightset perform. My initial trial bike ride with the Magicshine Lightset with it mounted to my provided helmet mount was for about an hour and fifteen minutes with the Lightset set on the highest lumen intensity for the entire ride.

The lighthead's beam quality is absolutely superb and intensely white and bright in intensity; with just the right amount of evenly divided spotlight and accompanying healthy amounts of needed desired spillover floodlight just outside the spotlight's corona.

Now being a user of the Princeton Tec Switchback I LED Lightset which is now a rather dated LED lightset; I just was not prepared for the light intensity in the LED spotlight and floodlight quality arena.

In comparison to the Princeton Tec Switchback I Lightset this is a spotlight and floodlight monster; as this is another level of bicycle lighting illumination altogether and will dramatically alter your nighttime cycling experience(s) at multiple level(s).

I was able to ride on my bicycle anywhere from approximately ten miles per hour on the flats to up to approximately twenty-two miles per hour on mildly sloping downhills with total utter confidence, safety and ability to see everything in front of the bicycle on the dark pitch black roadway.

As a result, I was able to rapidly settle into and enjoy my nighttime bicycle ride instead of worrying about being seen and also worrying about seeing what is in front of my bicycle safely. During the ride, I felt I never had to worry about slowing down for safety reasons; trying to read the road subsurface at night for potential road obstruction hazards or dangers.

I will have to definitely say this is one powerful and intense updated P7 based LED torch Lightset put out by the folks over at Magicshine and can safely say I have never seen or experienced such a high quality level of bicycle lighting illumination before in a bicycle lighting system. Kudos to the Geoman and Magicshine people for a job well done; to successfully bringing this product to the bicycle lighting market.

I have no doubt they will have no trouble selling many more of these now updated P7 based LED Lightsets once the good word of mouth advertising and good press release communications news gets out about how good the level quality of currently updated P7 based LED bicycling lighting system design has gotten.

During the one hour and fifteen minute nighttime bicycle ride, the Magicshine Lightset was set on its highest intensity setting the whole time and the Lithium Ion external battery pack did a fabulous job at maintaining this high level of light intensity without missing a beat.

Even after seventy five minutes of high light intensity being delivered to the P7 based LED Lighthead, the level of light intensity remained high during the whole time without any signs of fading or diminishment in light intensity.

I plugged in the Lithium Ion external battery pack into its Lithium Ion based recharging AC adapter and it recharged the battery pack in about an hour without any muss or fuss about it; with the LED on the recharging AC adapter turning green after it finished showing it was finally done recharging the Lithium Ion battery pack.

The whole Magicshine MJ-808 LED Lightset Kit is a well put together and thought out bicycle lighting system upgraded and enhanced with the newer P7 based LED Lighting technology which is now starting to be widely available and starting to enter the bicycling lighting system market.

Everything about the Magicshine P7 based LED Lightset offering; from the LED lighthead mounting system; to the LED lighthead beam quality and the LED lighthead casings modern and updated sleek black anodized looks; to the advanced Lithium Ion based external battery pack subsystem design and its battery run time life is fantastic.

These are all potentially desirable invaluable bicycle lighting system characteristics and traits in purchasing a potential bicycle lighting system.

When I was contemplating purchasing this particular Magicshine bicycle lighting system I was initially concerned with all of the above discussed referenced items in this review. I can safely say after having experienced firsthand; the Magicshine P7 based LED Lighting Kit System will immensely add a much appreciated measured level of added bicycling safety and enjoyment to your next nighttime serendipitous bicycle riding road/mountain experience; at a fair value price that cannot be beat, to boot.

To the guys at Geoman/Magicshine; many Kudos/thanks for bringing this updated P7 based LED bicycle lighting system product successfully to cyclists worldwide via the internet; finally cyclists on a global wide basis have an alternative choice when it comes to selecting both a decent and very powerful P7 based LED Lighting System for their nighttime bicycle lighting system needs.

Thanks guys for reading. cheers[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]


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## mojojojoaf (Sep 9, 2008)

my head hurts now. thanks.


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## billysorton (Jul 29, 2007)

*Tmi*

Whoa, down boy, down........a bit much info! Fell asleep twice, reaching for the advil right now! But thanks for being thorough, I see you took alot of time to do that, but shorter posts may keep our attention longer and let us retain more. Thats a little much.........


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Huge post.

Where did 666lm come from? Is that the average of the manufactures claim of 900 and under the measurments of under 400?.

Note the 200l Dinotte will likely still be running in 10 years. The MS has a 3 month warranty.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

I'm not going to read that lot. Could you do an edited version?


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## daniel58 (Sep 27, 2008)

*Magicshine P7 based LED Lightset Engine Further Product Information Part I*



billysorton said:


> Whoa, down boy, down........a bit much info! Fell asleep twice, reaching for the advil right now! But thanks for being thorough, I see you took alot of time to do that, but shorter posts may keep our attention longer and let us retain more. Thats a little much.........


Prior to buying the Magicshine P7 based LED Lightset Kit, I was over on amazon.com looking at the CygoLite TridenX Series of bicycle lighting systems, which are some of the brightest/lightest LED systems that Cygolite has in its product lineup.

It basically has 600lumens LED light output from three different led emitters that can be toggled from high, med, low and ultra low along with accompanying flashing/sos modes.

It also had options for helmet/handlebar mounting its LED lighthead.

Now on the high 600lumen mode with its high capacity Lithium Ion battery pack it says it can last about five hours.

Now its a great brand name bicycle lighting system, the price however was decidedly on the steepish side though at $335.

http://www.amazon.com/TridenX-600-LE...5651870&sr=8-3

So while I was waiting to save up the $335 buckerooskies necessary to buy this outstanding Led Lightset, I was doing further homework and research on the internet investigating other bicycle P7 LED Lightset engine based systems and I basically came across the Magicshine MJ-808 P7 LED Lightset kit offering on Geomangear and then did some further research on what that LED Lightset product offering had to offer.

Coincidentally the LED Lightset product offering has similar LED Lightset output as the Cygolite TridenX 600 by using only just one SSC-P7 four die high intensity P7 emitter source. See my prior indepth comprehensive and descriptive Magicshine posting/review for further details supporting that claim and any other questions one may have.

All I had to do was find a 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery to double up its Lithium Ion battery reserve capacity from 4.4aH to the desired target 8.8aH which would bring the run times up to six hours as the Magicshine product offering lasts three hours on the 4.4aH Lithium Ion battery pack (which is in the link supplied below).

http://www.all-battery.com/li-ion186...connector.aspx

I then placed my order with both geomangear and allbattery for the Magicshine and the extra Lithium Ion battery option with allbattery.

Now $85 for the Magicshine P7 Lightset Kit offering is a more than fair price for such a bright bicycle lighting system, espcially after looking at the P7 LED beamshot patterns on the internet.

I figured the Lithium Ion battery was about $40 and the Lithium Ion AC adapter was around $20; how could I lose with an outfit like Geomangear which warranties the Magicshine for ninety days for the remaining; around $25.

Now over the next ninety days to be sure, I will test and trial the Magicshine P7 Lightset offering extensively putting it through its paces, but I can already see literally with my own eyes that this product (is no joke).

While it is true I did have to procure an additional Lithium Ion battery to be sure, to get the battery capacity upgraded up to six hours total running time with the 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery from allbattery, it is also conversely true that I have upgraded my total overall running time with the 8.8aH battery used in combination with the 4.4aH Lithium Ion battery from the Magicshine Kit, so that I now have nine hours of total overall running time; and that to me is a double win situation (product value added upgrade/enhancement)

Total cost $85 for the P7 Lightset Kit plus $72 for the extra 8,8aH Lithium Ion battery.
Total overall cost for the upgraded and enhanced P7 Led Lightset Kit combination $157; now here is the interesting twist one could take the difference between the $335 Cygolite TridenX LED Lightset Kit which is $178 and apply that towards a second Magicshine P7 Lightset Kit and another second 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery; which would be another $157.

If one were to do that now, one would have a combined total lumens output of at least 1,200 lumens combined output which would needless to say would light up the roadway for even the fastest downhill stretch of roadway with utter rock solid confidence as close to daytime running conditions as one could possibly hope for or imagine (and a heck of a dual P7 LED Lightset upgrade ).

cheers


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## daniel58 (Sep 27, 2008)

*Magicshine P7 based LED Lightset Engine Further Product Information Part II*



znomit said:


> Huge post.
> 
> Where did 666lm come from? Is that the average of the manufactures claim of 900 and under the measurments of under 400?.
> 
> Note the 200l Dinotte will likely still be running in 10 years. The MS has a 3 month warranty.


For those of you wondering outloud to themselves in my previous post where the 666lumen figure came from; perhaps a clarification/review is in order so here it goes; with a quick draw of the breath:

That 666lumen figure is calculated value from source information provided link info below:

Manufacturer's link:

http://www.headlamp.cn/productsShow.asp?id=321

Magicshine Dealer link:

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?...38paikjv9i1732

They of course can be contacted for independent verification of written specifications data stated.

Known variables:

7.4VDC from lithium ion battery pack

4.4aH Battery Capacity

3 hours run time on high intensity setting (userdata also supports/verifies this statistic)

low brightness illumination setting is 30percent of total illumination (200 lumens)

medium brightness illumination setting is five hundred lumens

Power = Voltage times Current
Power = 7.4VDC times 4400aH
Power = 32.56W of power supplied by battery pack (high)

Power = Total Power divided by Time
Power = 32.56W divided by 3 hours run time
Power = 10.85W of power consumed per hour (high)

Total Current = Power divided by Voltage
Total Current = 10.85W divided by 7.4VDC
Total Current = 1466maH current consumed per hour (high)

Current Low = Current times 30 percent illumination
Current Low = 1466maH times 0.30
Current Low = 440maH current consumed per hour at 200lumens

Current per Lumen = Current divided by Lumens
Current per Lumen = 440maH divided by 200lumens
Current per Lumen = 2.2mA current consumer per Lumen generated

Lumens High = Current High divided by (2.2mA per Lumen)
Lumens High = 1466maH times (lumens divided by 2.2mA)
Lumens High = 1466maH divided by 2.2ma
Lumens High = 666lumens (userdata also supports/verifies this statistic)

This 666lumen figure is definitely in the anticipated 600-700lumens arena expected ball park figure as reported indpendently by others.

The calculated value above is just another independent way of verifying the supposed 600-700lumens ball park figure probably being seen by others.

This 666lumen figure also seems to figure into the fact it is a SSC-P7 Seoul Semiconductor type "C" binning 4 die LED emitter source; which with a conservatively based designed Led driver would be hard pressed to get up to the magical superstratospheric 900lumens laboratory conditions idealistic value.

This 666lumen figure of course does not factor in "likely" lumen lighthead losses (perhaps 10% or so) or "likely" lumen light transmission losses due to the beam being spread out half flood/half spotlight configuration (perhaps another 10% or so).

So actual effective in the real world lumens (non-lab conditions) could be as low as:

666lumens-66lumens-66lumens=534lumens on high setting probably and,

500lumens-50lumens-50lumens=400lumens on medium setting probably and,

200lumens-20lumens-20lumens=160lumens on low setting probably; but

a second Magicshine Lighthead however (kind of like a LED twin head configuration i.e. cateye twinshot):

would bring those lumen values back up to 534lumens x 2=1068lumens on high setting probably and,

would bring those lumen values back up to 400lumens x 2=800lumens on medium setting probably and,

would bring those lumen values back up to 160lumens x 2=320lumens on low setting probably.

Fortunately a second Magicshine is still $85; a mercifully affordable option (as opposed to going the Lupine Tesla, Wilma, Betty class of options);

even though there is the added expense of the second set of Lithium Ion batteries if one (for some reason) needed over three hours maxium run times.

On the related topic of Lithium Ion batteries used in powering up the lightset, in general it is important to note that while there is no concern of memory issues when applying unscheduled charges; the lithium ion battery does prefer a partial rather than a full discharge and frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible in order to maximize and prolong lithium ion total cycles battery life.

Another interesting related fact regarding Lithium Ion batteries, one not widely publisized unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent upon aging from time of manufacturing (shelf life) regardless of whether it was charged, and not just on the number of charge/discharge cycles.

At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion laptop battery that's full most of the time at 25 degrees Celsius(77 degrees F), will irreversibly lose approximately 20% permanent total capacity per year. This capacity loss begins from the time it was manufactured, and occurs even when the battery is unused.

This phenomenon is called "aging of lithium-ion" rechargeable cells and is an issue that is often ignored entirely. Apparently, the lithium ion cell capacity loss manifests itself in increased lithium ion cell internal resistance caused via internal oxidation "rusting" of the lithium ion rechargeable cell and is unfortunately unavoidable.

Eventually, this lithium ion rechargeable cell resistance reaches a point where the lithium ion pack can no longer deliver the stored energy although the battery may still have ample charge. Unfortunately, there are no remedies to restore a lithium-ion rechargeable cell once it is worn out.

A momentary improvement in performance can be noticeable when heating up the battery as this lowers the effective lithium ion cells internal resistance momentarily but the condition reverts back to its former state when the temperature drops back down again.

Another interesting fact regarding Lithium Ion batteries, if the battery is used and fully depleted to 0%, this is called a "deep discharge" cycle, and this decreases its permanent capacity. Approximately 100 deep discharge cycles leave the battery with about 75% to 85% permanent total capacity.

What can one do about the "lithium ion battery aging" related effect (nothing its unavoidable)?

Countermeasuring it is about the only thing one can do actively to offset this unavoidable "aging" effect, for example; if one uses a 4.4aH Lithium Ion rechargeable battery for example and wishes to extend its life for an extra three years; all one would have to do is get a 8.8aH Lithium Ion rechargeable battery.

This is probably the simplist, most popular and most cost effective way to actively offset and "countermeasure" against the unavoidable/undesirable "aging effects" lithium ion problematic scenario.

The major tangible advantage here is, during its now enhanced and additional longer three year life it would now still be able to enjoy even longer than anticipated lithium ion battery run times on initial battery installation and also maintain ones normally expected nominal lithium ion battery running times of three hours on high intensity (MJ-808 high setting) even after three years.

To help illustrate and explain this point see below via two example(s) one with a 4.4ah Lithium Ion battery pack and another 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery pack using a timeline illustration:

8.8aH Lithium Ion battery pack (MJ-808 high setting) run times

8.8aH brand new Lithium Ion battery pack installed / 1.466ah= 6.0 hours
8.8aH / 1.20= 7.3aH(after one years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466aH= 5.0 hours
7.3aH / 1.20= 6.1aH(after two years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466aH= 4.2 hours
6.1aH / 1.20= 5.1aH(after three years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466ah= 3.5 hours
5.1aH / 1.20= 4.2aH(after four years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466ah= 2.9 hours
4.2aH / 1.20= 3.5aH(after five years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466ah= 2.4 hours
3.5aH / 1.20= 2.9ah(after six years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466ah= 2.0 hours

4.4aH Lithium Ion battery pack (MJ-808 high setting) run times

4.4aH brand new Lithium Ion battery pack installed / 1.466ah= 3.0 hours
4.4aH / 1.20= 3.6aH(after one years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 2.5 hours
3.6aH / 1.20= 3.1aH(after two years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 2.1 hours
3.1aH / 1.20= 2.5aH(after three years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 1.7 hours
2.5aH / 1.20= 2.1aH(after four years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 1.4 hours
2.1aH / 1.20= 1.8aH(after five years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 1.2 hours
1.8aH / 1.20= 1.5aH(after six years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 1.0 hours

As one can readily see from the above timeline illustrations/scenarios the effects of lithium ion "aging" effects on total lightset runtimes.

Notice in particular the 8.8aH lithium ion battery pack after three years still has the originally intended three hours run time on the high setting.

Notice in particular the 4.4aH lithium ion battery pack after three years only has 1.7 hours run time on high setting; a drop of 44 per cent in run times.

Simply put, one gets a doublefold benefit of utilizing the 8.8aH battery of getting the "doubling of the run times" on the high setting all throughout its useable life which has effectively been "doubled" as well; versus the 4.4aH battery which is major "piece of mind" for some individuals.

The two major "take away points" here is, get a slightly plus sized capacity rated Lithium Ion battery for your particular battery running times application (its a energy storage device tool size it accordingly) and use but don't abuse your lithium ion battery so that it can take care of your your battery run applications in an optimal manner and also be sure to factor in and get a "realistic perspective general idea" of ones anticipated lightset engines effective lumens (non-lab conditions) being output. After all, two of the most important parameters for consideration with any potential lightset engine kit/system purchased are its "effective real world lumen output" and its rechargeable lithium ion battery "effective real world energy output over time".

Now after having collected, digested and analyzing various pertinent background information regarding Lithium Ion rechargeable battery pack one might naturally ask themselves, what about the 7.5aH Lupine/Wilma Lithium Ion Rechargeable battery pack (model no. L-965) which by the costs a pretty penny at $220; ouch pinch me that hurts(link below for reference).

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_19_18&products_id=52

Now, lets try to apply what we have learned so far, how long might one expect the $220, Lupine L-965 to last a typical Lupine user under ideal circustances at 77 degrees F.

The 7.5aH Lithium Ion based battery pack the Lupine L-965 is used on the Lupine Wilma 5 (920Lumen) system with three hours on the high setting (link below).

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_19_22&products_id=76

The 7.5aH Lithium Ion based battery pack the Lupine L-965 is used on the Lupine Tesla 7 (700Lumen) system with five hours on the high setting (link below).

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_19_22&products_id=95

The 7.5aH Lithium Ion based battery pack the Lupine L-965 is used on the Lupine Wilma 7 (920Lumen) system with four hours on the high setting (link below).

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_19_22&products_id=75

The 7.5aH Lithium Ion based battery pack the Lupine L-965 is used on the Lupine Betty 7 (1,500Lumen) system with three hours on the high setting (link below).

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_19_22&products_id=44

7.5aH Lithium Ion battery pack (L-965 high setting) and its effect on Lupine run times:

7.5aH brand new Lithium Ion battery pack installed/ 3hrs(Wilma 5/Betty 7), 4hrs(Wilma 7), 5 hrs(Tesla 7)=3.00 /4.00 /5.00hours
7.5aH / 1.20= (after one years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity)=2.50 /3.33 /4.17hours
6.25aH / 1.20= (after two years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity)=2.10 /2.78 /3.47hours 
5.20aH / 1.20= (after three years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity)=1.74 /2.31 /2.89hours
4.34aH / 1.20= (after four years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity)=1.45 /1.93 /2.41hours
3.62aH / 1.20= (after five years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity)=1.21 /1.61 /2.00hours
3.01aH / 1.20= (after six years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity)=1.00 /1.33 /1.67hours

As one can rapidly see from the above timeline illustrations/scenarios the costly effects of lithium ion "aging" effects on total lightset runtimes, even for a $220(double ouch) 7.5aH Lupine Lithium Ion(L-965 high setting) battery pack,

Notice in particular the $220, 7.5aH Lupine Lithium Ion(L-965 high setting) battery pack after only three years:

has only 1.74 hours run time for the high setting on both a Lupine Wilma 5-920lumen/Betty 7-1500lumen, versus 3.00hours brand new,

has only 2.31 hours run time for the high setting on a Lupine Wilma 7-920lumen, versus 4.00hours brand new,

has only 2.89 hours run time for the hight setting on a Lupine Tesla 7-700lumen, versus 5.00hours brand new

The cost to the potential Lupine user is $220 divided by three years or $73.00 per year in order to replace the "aged" Lupine Lithium Ion rechargeable battery in order to get the respective three, four and five hours of respective original initial lithium ion battery pack running times for the various Lupine Tesla/Wilma/Betty based lighting systems mentioned above in the illustration scenario.

The comparitive cost to the potential Magicshine user for the Lithium ion rechargeable battery pack for the MJ-808 is only $40 divided by three years or $13 per year in order to replace the "aged" lithium ion rechargeable battery pack.

In fact the potential Magicshine user could take the cost savings between $73 per year (L-965) and $13 per year (MJ-808) or $60 per year and reward themselves $5 a month ($60 divided by twelve months equals $5/month) to apply towards buying a brand spanking new spare 8.8aH expanded capacity double run time Lithium Ion rehargeable battery pack in the form of:

http://www.all-battery.com/li-ion1865074v8800mahpcbprotectedrechargeablebatterywithdcconnector.aspx

Now, every 15 months ($71.99 divided by $5/month equals 15months) that would in fact effectively add an extra 6.0 hours of additional total battery run time for the Magicshine user at no additional cost; from the purchased new spare 8.8aH expanded capacity double run time Lithium Ion rechargeable battery pack(from the realized cost savings $5/month), as compared to the Lupine user left wanting, wondering and still needing a replacement Lupine lithium ion battery and also now faced with the ugly reality of a rapidly deteriorating Lupine Lithium Ion rechargeable battery pack after only three years.

Now, that is something to finally cheer about for the potential Magicshine user; go figure (a double cheers and a beer is probably in order perhaps), though for the potential Lupine user; not so much to cheer about and something to grumble about probably.

For any further questions, please feel free to review and see my prior indepth comprehensive and descriptive Magicshine posting/review for further details supporting that claim and any other questions one may have.

cheers with a beer


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Someone needs to get a girlfriend, or boyfriend depending on how you swing


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*Rain proof lamps?*

Warning! 
The Chinese light is not totally waterproof!

It's been raining so much that a friends Nite Rider light similar to it shorted out. I wonder how many other lights are not waterproof.

Well they may be ok if covered with a bag....???? ( If thay don't get very hot.)


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## jawnn (Mar 26, 2009)

*forum trolls*

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users , or of otherwise disrupting on-topic discussion.

Antagonism: an active hostility

hiroshima: 
Others on this forum are not your research wenches

StevelKnivel: 
Just freaking buy a light already!

odtexas:
Then again maybe nobody wants to respond because you ride a trike

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevelKnivelHave you actually tried any lights in the flesh yet?

Don't post any more useless questions until you have seen what the modern crop of LED lights is capable of with your own eyes.

Jawnn: Your right! I must be a Paranoid troll.


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