# Ok, looks like the forum is boring lately... 1185g Custom Tune wheels



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Ok... looks like the forum seems to be slow these days with un-interesting posts. I just received these pictures from Jeremy over at https://www.alchemybicycleworks.com/

He just finished my latest wheel build and should be shipping them out to me shortly (so don't ask about ride impressions as I haven't received the wheels yet, and it is -9C outside (15.8F for the imperial users)

Stock Tune King Hub (28h)









Stock Tune Kong Hub (32h) w/ Titanium Freehub Body









Modified Tune King Hub w/ hybrid ceramic bearings









Modified Tune Kong Hub 
-"tuned the cassette body by replacing the stock 6902 bearing with a lighter 6802 bearing"
-"replaced the non-drive bearing with a ceramic hybrid"
-"internally butted the rear axle"









Front Nipples









Front (right side) Pillar Ti spokes









Front (left side) Pillar Ti spokes









28h Alex Rim XCR Disc









rear nipples









left rear Pillar Ti spokes









right rear Pillar Ti spokes









32h Alex Rim XCR Disc Rim









Completed Front wheel









Completed Rear wheel









Front wheel









Rear wheel









The Pair









The build specification:

Front wheel: 
Tune King Hub 28h (tuned)
28x PST TB 1422 Pillar Titanium bladed spokes
28x Aluminum Anodized Gold Nipples
Alex XCR Disc Rim 28h

Rear wheel:
Tune Kong (tuned) w/ Titanium Freehub Body
32x PST TB 1422 Pillar Titanium bladed spokes
32x Aluminum Anodized Gold Nipples
Alex XCR Disc Rim 28h

Total weight = 1185g

Personally I don't feel any shame that I didn't build these wheels. The cost for me to pay someone to build them is marginal. Sure I graduated with an engineering degree and I'm aerospace engineer, but the cost to source the parts and then find the time to build the wheel perfect is not worth it to me. I also don't have that much patience, and paitience is required espeically when you are dealing with stupid light weight parts. So I get my wheels built. Every single time I have used a top wheel builder the tension is always perfect. The attention to detail is astounding. The care and love put into the wheel along with the craftsmanship, art, and skill are never questioned .

Lastly I like to make a comment about the best of best. I'm always amazed with dealing with the best in the industry. So many times I've walked into local bike stores asking for a custom built wheels. The situation is either they walk me over to the Mavic display and tell me that Mavic wheels are 100x better than a custom wheelset, or the shop tries to sell me some hubs they have lying around with random non butted spokes with a heavy rim they have left over from eons ago and tell me that is good enough and charge me exborbant prices.

When dealing with Jeremy and Sarah, all I did was email them about what I wanted, what my goals were, what my riding style/type was, then I said I wanted this this this and this for components, will this work? Can you build? Yes? OK how much? All communication done through email except for when I gave them my credit card number, that I called them up personally. Shipped to my door. No fuss, no muss. Both sides are happy.

Every single time I have used a top wheel builder the tension is always perfect. The attention to detail is astounding. The care and love put into the wheel along with the craftsmanship, art, and skill are never questioned.

So hopefully this inspires others to shy away from factory built wheels and adventure into the custom world (it is not that much more expensive than I9 or other fancy wheels, and sometimes it can be cheaper).


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

I have been pondering whether anyone made titanium freehubs (so they would not get chewed to pieces like Al ones) and lo and behold this post popped up. Those are very nice looking wheels.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Hmm . . . didn't even know Alchemy were wheel builders. I've had good service from them with regards to tune.

So are the wheels meeting your goals? How much do you weigh?

I'm a little surprised by the use of ti spokes. Especially with only a 28 hole from hub.

Would you recommend Alchemy then for building wheels . . . .


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I most definitely recommend Jeremy over at Alchemy Bicycle Works. It is a 3 to 4 month wait for wheel building. Alchemy dropped the Tune distributorship for USA. I suspect they were getting screwed by the fluctuating USD vs EURO currency game, as they take full payment on custom colored orders and then Tune delivers 6 months later only to have the EURO rise against the USD, and Jeremy would have to cover the cost. Plus Jeremy introduced his own line of hubs for road wheels.

As to wheel stiffness, I invite you to read the following article.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm

with regards to the 28h front option... well... Jeremy was getting rid of all his Tune stuff as he is no longer the distributor of tune parts. He had this one set of hubs remaining on closeout special, so I picked them up. Plus Front wheels built up are typically 40% stiffer than a rear wheel because of the balanced tension, and also the wider flange spacing.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

very very nice I like :thumbsup: are these for the ti hardtail? cant wait for built pics.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Any first ride impressions?  Damn cold here too (-25C)

Those look like some sweet wheels. Sounds like a good wheel builder. For my next set I will definitely go custom. It's amazing how light those wheels are, hope they work out for you.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> very very nice I like :thumbsup: are these for the ti hardtail? cant wait for built pics.


Damn right they are going on the Lynskey Ti Hardtail. I'll make sure I bring my bike over to my photographer friend to snap some pics in his studio.

You done your bike yet?


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

Found a cool idea by D.J. from the ww. forums using staples to prevent the aluminum gouging. Check it out. A little off topic, but kinda relates. Here' s a pic.


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

Very light wheelset cheers!! I'm in the midst of building a set too, however I was thinking about sticking with sapim, but boy those pillar's sure are light. Have you ridden with those spokes before?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

protocol_droid said:


> Very light wheelset cheers!! I'm in the midst of building a set too, however I was thinking about sticking with sapim, but boy those pillar's sure are light. Have you ridden with those spokes before?


Nope. First time for titanium spokes. This is my final bike project so I wanted to build my dream bike from when I was a kid in the 90s. No more bikes, my collection is finished. Now it's just ride and enjoy + maintain.

I have another pair of tune wheels built by Ron Ruff of http://www.whitemountainwheels.com/

Tune King, Kong w/ Ti freehub body
32 spoked 3 cross Sapim CX-ray laced to Sun Ringle EQ21. The CX-ray spoke is very nice. I also have a pair of road wheels with Tune hubs, Sapim CX-rays, and Reynolds DV46C built by Ron.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=370077&highlight=Cheers!

The wheels are amazing. The rear is perfectly straight still after numerous races and out door adventures. The front... well I crashed and dinged the rim. So I sent it back to Ron to have him replace the front rim.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

protocol_droid said:


> Found a cool idea by D.J. from the ww. forums using staples to prevent the aluminum gouging. Check it out. A little off topic, but kinda relates. Here' s a pic.


I saw that post too. Very intriguing. But all my Tune hubs I elected to go with a Ti free hub body, except for my road wheelset, which I was able to get "clips" from American Classic to use.


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> I saw that post too. Very intriguing. But all my Tune hubs I elected to go with a Ti free hub body, except for my road wheelset, which I was able to get "clips" from American Classic to use.


so do those ac clips actually work with 9sp shimano since the ac website suggests only for 10sp, not sure if that makes a difference. Do you have pics of those clips as that other thread didn't show anything.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

The Amercian Classic clips only work for 10 speed as the height of the clips are exactly that of the spacing for 10speed cassettes.

My road bike runs 10 speed Dura-ace 7800. For that matter the american classic clips are for shimano drivetrain only. Further to that when you buy the "clips" you get 3 sets. 1 set for dura-ace spider, 1 set for ultegra spider, 1 set for 105 spider. In the case of the 105 set they are pins, not clips.

protocol_droid: Sorry I don't have pictures of the clips. They are already installed into my hubs.

However, here are the american classic instruction PDF on how to use/install them.

Dura-ace PDF:
http://www.amclassic.com/documents/help/web10_SpeedDuraAce.pdf

Ultegra PDF:
The ultegra ones installs the same as the Dura-ace PDF

105 PDF:
http://www.amclassic.com/documents/help/web10_Speed105.pdf

NOTE: THESE CLIPS ONLY WORK FOR 10SPEED ROAD CASSETTES.


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## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

Final bike project my a$$, thats a story for all your other friends. We know you here. Wheels came out great and really light. Can't wait to see the final project revealed.

(whoops, couple miniutes behind Rocky, but its funny we were typing the same thing at nearly the same time)


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> This is my final bike project so I wanted to build my dream bike from when I was a kid in the 90s. No more bikes, my collection is finished. Now it's just ride and enjoy + maintain.


Bwah ha hah ha hah. Final bike project...  :skep: Like that ever happens once you get the bike building bug under your skin. ut: :smilewinkgrin: Can't wait till we the start of the next project.


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## gotdirt33 (Jul 6, 2008)

wait is the titanium freehub body actually made by tune or is it an aftermarket piece?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

gotdirt33 said:


> wait is the titanium freehub body actually made by tune or is it an aftermarket piece?


By tune. I believe it is a 90 USD upgrade option when you order the hubs?... I think you can buy them seperately for ~100 USD?...

But that would be bare freehub with no pawls and such, so you would need to dismantle your existing hub and transfer all the parts over. I'm not 100% how to do this as I have not had to take any of my hubs apart yet.


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## gotdirt33 (Jul 6, 2008)

oh okay, thank you. for this wheelset i think ill be going with I9 but was exicted with a potential possibility of a titanium freehub body, to go with the full ceramics upgrade, but those tunes are sweet! congrats!


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

Wow, those are sick. :thumbsup:

Good call removing the stickers from the rims...they are kinda ugly.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

amillmtb said:


> Wow, those are sick. :thumbsup:
> 
> Good call removing the stickers from the rims...they are kinda ugly.


The stickers are worth 6g. I spent 27 bucks shipping my overweight 111g Easton EC90 handle back to Easton for a 104g bar.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Damn right they are going on the Lynskey Ti Hardtail. I'll make sure I bring my bike over to my photographer friend to snap some pics in his studio.
> 
> You done your bike yet?


not yet still waiting for marta mag brakes but now I have another problem an X should be here any day


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Cheers! said:


> No more bikes, my collection is finished. Now it's just ride and enjoy + maintain.




You will be back in at most a year describing a new build. As soon as all the bills are paid you will start planning. Maybe not a weenie build - how about a sub 28lb solid AM bike?


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

How come the cassette fits with all those staples...? Is there some shaving made...? Do they stay in place?


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## ASpot13 (Apr 4, 2007)

Batas said:


> How come the cassette fits with all those staples...? Is there some shaving made...? Do they stay in place?


Here's the link to where the picture came from. The actual thread may help. It was very interesting to read. http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54146


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

Cheers! said:


> The stickers are worth 6g. I spent 27 bucks shipping my overweight 111g Easton EC90 handle back to Easton for a 104g bar.


I would have done exactly the same thing, for both instances.

Cant wait to see the rest of your build. :thumbsup:


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

Those wheels are sick. Please post the whole build when done!


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

cheers!,

where did you get the spokes and the hoops? I have looked everywhere and cant seem to find them (rims especially). btw, Im in the US. and nice wheels!!!


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

jordanrosenbach3 said:


> cheers!,
> 
> where did you get the spokes and the hoops? I have looked everywhere and cant seem to find them (rims especially). btw, Im in the US. and nice wheels!!!


the link is given within the first post


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

yea but is there any websites that sell them by themselves other than there, because i didnt see any links to that specific rim on the site. plus, it doesnt show it in the price list.


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

They quoted ~150 USD/rim.

Not sure other than alchemy.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

jordanrosenbach3 said:


> cheers!,
> 
> where did you get the spokes and the hoops? I have looked everywhere and cant seem to find them (rims especially). btw, Im in the US. and nice wheels!!!


http://www.alchemybicycleworks.com/

I believe Limon also got the spokes and hoops from there. Unless he bought the eyeletless ones from Hong Kong ebay.

I think BTI USA is an importer for Alex Rims in the USA. Your Local Bike Store can order them in for you if you want an alternative source. In Canada I have no idea. I get all my wheels built by guys in the states.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

why Tune and not Extralite hubs ?

Pillar Ti spoke are very light !!!

i have a 1170 g lefty set ... 

with this spokes ...ohhhhhhhhh ..wow....


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

eliflap said:


> why Tune and not Extralite hubs ?
> 
> Pillar Ti spoke are very light !!!
> 
> ...


I already had 2 sets of Tune hubs I have been using over the past couple of years. Tune Mig70, Mag190 for road wheels, and a set of King and Kong w/ Ti Freehub. Both have been working great, and I have had no problems. I read some reviews that the extralite was too light and fragile. I know the Tune hubs work wonderfully whereas the Extralite I had no experience.

That and I got the hubs for cheap on closeout from Alchemy Bicycle works.
160 USD for the front hub
340 USD for the rear hub w/ a Ti freehub body

way better than extralite
250 USD for front hub
500 USD for rear hub

Combine that with one stop shopping by having Jeremy build my wheels as he is the sole source provider of Pillar Ti Spokes in North America and he could get the Alex Rims I couldn't say no.

You guys gotta remember the weight of the rear hub... that is with a Titanium Freehub body which adds a few grams over the standard aluminum freehub body. The Titanium freehub body was and is always better machined (tolerance wise) compared to the aluminum ones. The titanium freehub body never exhibited the "creak" sound that many people have discovered with their aluminum freehub bodies during a bad batch from Tune.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

personally i want to mount my set with Pillar spokes in titanium...

in august i rode with 2 friends with bike eqquiped with those spokes ... and they told me of many faults ...
day after , other ride , one spoke faulted to one of those guys...

so i switched my choice to DT aerobladed black ...

happy , only 2 rides on , still new ...

but here in Italy lots of light wheelsets have Extralite hubs...

not so fragile as you red ... i want to mount 3 years ago... still asking in this time for afults or problems and never red...

however ... thanks for reply ..your choice is best choice , mine is only a question ...

and price is very expensive for italian products in USA

and thanks for the link for ti spokes... here in Italy not easy to find

maybe 2010 or 2011, next built , i will try ...can save 100 g


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## mrfoxy76 (Aug 3, 2008)

did you get the lynskey built up yet?

i just built a M230 i put I9 wheels on it, weight is 21lbs


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

mrfoxy76 said:


> did you get the lynskey built up yet?
> 
> i just built a M230 i put I9 wheels on it, weight is 21lbs


The wheels are in transit and should be arriving this week. Trying to enter the bike into the light bikes contest

http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2009/02/06/bike-of-the-year-contest-2009/

Which entries are due by this weekend... :eekster:


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## mrfoxy76 (Aug 3, 2008)

i was trying to get mine under 20lbs but i maxed out at $6,500 at 21lbs!

will post pics and component breakdown tomorrow


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> The wheels are in transit and should be arriving this week. Trying to enter the bike into the light bikes contest
> 
> http://www.light-bikes.de/eng/2009/02/06/bike-of-the-year-contest-2009/
> 
> Which entries are due by this weekend... :eekster:


come on to challenge in the contest !! :thumbsup:


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

eliflap said:


> come on to challenge in the contest !! :thumbsup:


I think I might get my arse kicked. There is some serious competition out there. I'm just a novice bike builder.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Did your wheelbuilder remove material from the inside of the axle?
As for 28 Ti spokes in front I rode a wheel like that for years with no problem. They were the 90's rainbow annodized spokes. Can't remember the name.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

marwi spokes ?


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## PimpinD (May 29, 2008)

I was at the same situation, did i want to spend the same amount of money and get the mavic cross max slr or get something completly custom...

Lucky, my friend got the SLRs before me, so i went custom...

I ended up with:

Mavic 819 disc Ust rim
Triple butted DT swiss spokes
blue alloy nipples
Chris king front and rear hubs...

manager of the shop i deal with built em up, and so far so goood.... i love em...


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Lelandjt said:


> Did your wheelbuilder remove material from the inside of the axle?
> As for 28 Ti spokes in front I rode a wheel like that for years with no problem. They were the 90's rainbow annodized spokes. Can't remember the name.


1.) The axle is internally butted
2.) the 6902 bearing got replaced with a 6802 bearing (don't ask how or why it fits, but the former Tune USA distributor knows his ways around these hubs)
3.) The front hubs have had their bearings replaced with hybrid ceramics
4.) The non drive side bearing on the rear hub is also hybrid ceramic

The rainbow anodized spokes can be achieved via running the spokes in a electrolyte bath and different voltages create different hues of color from gold to purple.


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## sindy9001 (Mar 3, 2009)

Cool. I love it too.How much is it?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Yeah, they were the Marwis!
The first post gave me the impression that the wheel builder/ Tune importer had personally internally butted the axle! That would sketch me out


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Picture of the day...

More will follow. I just finished the bike and I can barely stay awake.


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

is that 170 grams?????? with an ec90 post and cycle king saddle???


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

protocol_droid said:


> is that 170 grams?????? with an ec90 post and cycle king saddle???


Maybe 17.0lb for the whole bike?


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

So you spent all that money and:

1: You're hanging your bike in a bad place where it's not meant to be loaded
2: You are using a crap fish scale - pony up $40 to get a decent scale. None of my bikes are remotely that nice and I have two decent scales.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

ginsu2k said:


> So you spent all that money and:
> 
> 1: You're hanging your bike in a bad place where it's not meant to be loaded
> 2: You are using a crap fish scale - pony up $40 to get a decent scale. None of my bikes are remotely that nice and I have two decent scales.


Why you gotta be like that?

What are you trying to prove?

Why do you feel the need to belittle Cheers?


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

ginsu2k said:


> 1: You're hanging your bike in a bad place where it's not meant to be loaded


where do you think his body weight goes?

really? 17lbs of pulling force is even more force than 160lb of pushing force?

haha.


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## PimpinD (May 29, 2008)

what bike is this?


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

lynskey ti hardtail from another thread that I saw.

I couldn't make out the period in there. If it's 17lbs even, that means you really want it to be 16lbs. What're you changing now?


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

Cheers! said:


> Picture of the day...
> 
> More will follow. I just finished the bike and I can barely stay awake.


Nice weight! I'm still working on getting my hardtail into the 19 pound range.  Can't wait to see the rest! How comfortable is that saddle compared to an SLR. I'm looking at getting another XC Gel flow to match with my new Race Face Next SL seatpost. That Cycle King has to be lighter than the gel flow's 175g, eh? Does it come in white?


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Hey Cheers! why do you have Ti freehub, bad past experiences? Where to get one?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Batas said:


> Hey Cheers! why do you have Ti freehub, bad past experiences? Where to get one?


For the past couple of years I believe Alchemy Bicycle works only imported in the Kongs with Ti freehub bodies due to too many warranty issues with the aluminum freehub bodies.

That is what he had, so there wasn't really much of a choice. I didn't even get a choice in color, as it was a closeout special on the hubs.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

I was asking because my alu freewheel have problems too. Gotta be replaced. Will get a Ti freewheel or a new alu one and sell the wheels. Lets see.


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