# BULLSEYE HUBS Still in business?



## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

Hey All,

Does anyone know about the phone # at Bullseye Hubs being disconnected?

I had been speaking with Roger at Bullseye over the past few weeks about replacing a 126mm rear axle for a wheel that I now need a 135mm axle for and I called again today and got a recording that the # "was out of serivce or disconnected"

Roger just kept forgetting to send my axle out after each time I spoke with him...It's my understanding that he's getting along in age which is understandable why he forgot and he even said that his son will be taking over the business, but now the # doesn't work. Does anyone have further info on their business or any contact info for Roger or his son?

Thanks,

Michael-NYC


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## Veloculture (Dec 18, 2005)

i dont have any other numbers for contacting them. i tried to buy all kinds of things from Roger but found out it's just best at this point to consider that company out of business. too many people are having way too much trouble with them. Roger is a great guy so it's a shame to see him deteriorate like this.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

That should prove to be pretty difficult.

Quite a few people haven't had the best luck getting stuff from him and his son also seems pretty hit or miss.

I just wish someone could buy out all their stock and get it to the masses.


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## Veloculture (Dec 18, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> I just wish someone could buy out all their stock and get it to the masses.


i tried that too but no luck. i got annoyed and gave up on the idea. maybe someone else will have some lock some day.


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

Veloculture said:


> i dont have any other numbers for contacting them. i tried to buy all kinds of things from Roger but found out it's just best at this point to consider that company out of business. too many people are having way too much trouble with them. Roger is a great guy so it's a shame to see him deteriorate like this.


Roger is a very nice man, it just seems that he's getting a tad forgetful as he's gotten older and that can be an embarrasing and awkward thing for such an innovative guy. 
Each time I called he seemed to not recall our previous conversations but he was always very polite and apologetic but I never got the axles that I had paid for...He did say that his son will be taking over the company, so perhaps we'll just have to wait to see what happens? If anyone hears anything can they please reply here or send me a PM?

Thanks and have a happy holidays!

Michael-NYC


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Turn around time for getting parts from them is 12+ months after payment is sent and received.


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## geoffss (Mar 23, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Turn around time for getting parts from them is 12+ months after payment is sent and received.


That sucks for you because even though I put in those nice new Phil Wood bearings, the axle is still loose and the wheel wobbles a little. Something in the axle/end caps is not right :nono:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

geoffss said:


> That sucks for you because even though I put in those nice new Phil Wood bearings, the axle is still loose and the wheel wobbles a little. Something in the axle/end caps is not right :nono:


Awesome! 

Probably easier, cheaper, or faster to pirate that from other hubs.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

I haven't ordered anything from him but he does seem forgetful (and acknowledges that he is). We talked at length about a webpage for him, trading html for metal, but he too forgot our conversation. Oh well, what was the question?

Penguin


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

geoffss said:


> That sucks for you because even though I put in those nice new Phil Wood bearings, the axle is still loose and the wheel wobbles a little. Something in the axle/end caps is not right :nono:


metric to imperial problems no doubt.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Probably easier, cheaper, or faster to pirate that from other hubs.


Bullseye hubs are supposed to have a little play as far as I know. Every hub Ive seen has it. Kind of annoying.


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Bullseye hubs are supposed to have a little play as far as I know. Every hub Ive seen has it. Kind of annoying.


I second that statement!

I had a Bullseye wheelset back in the 80's that were on a Wicked Fat Chance and they were great and rode smooth but actually rattled noisily (sp?) from the play in the hubs, nothing I tried could remedy this! I eventually gave those wheels to a friend and that's about the time that I went to Phil Wood hubs on pretty much every bike.

I currently have a pretty decent set of wheels that have Bullseye hubs that I got from one of our esteemed members here and I was simply attempting to salvage them for my current Wicked by getting new axles, as the rear wheel has a 126mm not a 135mm thaat the frame is spaced for...Since I doubt that I'll get the axles, please feel free to PM me for info on these wheels if you have a retro wheelset with a 26" x 135mm rear to trade for a Bullseye wheelset in silver/dark gray, radially laced to Specialized hard annodized 32 hole 26" rims with a 126mm rear hub...

Thanks,

Michael-NYC


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Yeah Roger never learned the metric system... so everything was SAE Imperial sized, makes finding chainring bolts for the cranks always a joy.


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Either that or roger cut the center spacer too long. Which I have seen on multiple bullseye wheels.


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## 57-180 (Jan 22, 2006)

*Hub Rattle*

Hey guys,

Has anyone ever tried using "shim stock" to shim the end caps/axles. Realize that I don't have a clue how the axle assembly works yet. I have a new used front wheel in my car that I'll dig into tonight to find out. We use.0015" thick stainless steel shim stock on our skatboard bearings & trucks to remove the "slop" between the bearings and the axles. I found this on bikepro's site:
This inner aluminum has a 12mm inner diameter. The 11.96mm outer diameter hollow aluminum axle slides through both bearings and the inner aluminum which reinforces the axle.

There may be a way for this to work. Just curious what has been tried before I dig in myself.


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## anotherbrian (Mar 18, 2005)

*blast from the past ... same axle need dilemma*

Pulling this thread up from the past as I'm facing the same axle requirement dilemma. I have a set of wheel I built in the late 80s for touring (Bullseye hubs with Mavic MA-40 rims, 126mm rear spaced) that I'd like to use on a 130mm spaced frame.

If Bullseye is no longer an option, any suggestions on a machine shop that has made replacements?


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Bullseye still is in business. I don't have their number handy but look about the forum and you'll find it. They do have an axles but it will take you a long time to get it, in my experience. If you're looking for a 130, I might have one for you. I was sent the wrong axle size and have to call them for a 135 axle. So if it arrives, I'll have a 130 to sell. PM if interested.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Sorry to bring up an old thread here... but hey, isn't that what this forum is about...? old questions about old equipment... 

So, I too have an old fat chance that I put a bullseye hubset onto and the axles rattle like MAD! Nothing I can do to eliminate the play, the spacers with grub/set-screws serve no purpose in eliminating the play which seems to be caused by tolerances between the bearing inner race and the axle being so different. I don't get it, what happened here? 

After just reading this short thread it seems to be a fairly common problem with the bullseyes. Has anyone come up with a remedy?
Any info or tips are much appreciated.



Also, it seems Bullseye has their own store on ebay. Selling off old stock items, mostly bmx components though.


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> Sorry to bring up an old thread here... but hey, isn't that what this forum is about...? old questions about old equipment...
> 
> So, I too have an old fat chance that I put a bullseye hubset onto and the axles rattle like MAD! Nothing I can do to eliminate the play, the spacers with grub/set-screws serve no purpose in eliminating the play which seems to be caused by tolerances between the bearing inner race and the axle being so different. I don't get it, what happened here?
> 
> ...


BikeSATORI,

I know that some people really love Bullseye Hubs and I think that they're cool, but they do rattle and although it's annoying I don't think that it'll cause any tech or safety problems, but if you read my post above back from 12/26/2006 I had the exact same problem with Bullseyes on my 1987 Fat Chance and I eventually just got rid of the wheels...And as far as the new eBay store for Bullseye, I contacted them a few months ago and they apologized for the 5th time and promised me those hub axles AGAIN that I had paid for in mid 2006 but never received and I still have never gotten anything from them. 
My advice is to sell or trade away your rattley Bullseye wheels if they're annoying you and get some wheels with Phil Wood hubs, I've been riding Phils on my Fat Chances for 20 years since I gave away my Bullseye wheels to a friend and I have never had a problem with them and they are VERY responsive when it comes to customer service...Now they're not cheap, but they certainly won't rip you off!

Keep us posted on your saga and let us know what you decide to do so you can ride and enjoy your old Fat Chance without hub rattles.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Fatmikeynyc said:


> BikeSATORI,
> 
> I know that some people really love Bullseye Hubs and I think that they're cool, but they do rattle and although it's annoying I don't think that it'll cause any tech or safety problems, but if you read my post above back from 12/26/2006 I had the exact same problem with Bullseyes on my 1987 Fat Chance and I eventually just got rid of the wheels...And as far as the new eBay store for Bullseye, I contacted them a few months ago and they apologized for the 5th time and promised me those hub axles AGAIN that I had paid for in mid 2006 but never received and I still have never gotten anything from them.
> My advice is to sell or trade away your rattley Bullseye wheels if they're annoying you and get some wheels with Phil Wood hubs, I've been riding Phils on my Fat Chances for 20 years since I gave away my Bullseye wheels to a friend and I have never had a problem with them and they are VERY responsive when it comes to customer service...Now they're not cheap, but they certainly won't rip you off!
> ...


Yep, I'm pickin' up what you're layin' down...
It's just a shame, they were pretty decent hubs and the wheelset I have built up with them is a very nice retro one. Just wanted to see if there was by chance an easy remedy for the hubs.
I've also got a slick set of matching 3dv Pulstars for the fat chance too... but again, tough and seemingly endless search for some "ti-dye" straight-pull spokes for the rear hub to build up to a purple sun rim I've got. mmmm.... always searching for something, haha.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

It always seemed to me that Bullseye used crappy bearing or at least bearings and concepts that were wrong for the application. When you read their instructions for their cranks it says to leave just a slight amount of looseness to help make the bearings last longer. The hub instruction say something a little different, but in either case you couldn't take out the slack no matter what anyway without putting them bearings in a bind. The bearings they used have way too much clearance to start with and have no way to facilitate preloading them, so you wind up with loose bearings all the time which is murder on the balls and races.

My friend Rem approached a customer of ours who worked at Bearings Inc in Atlanta many years ago about coming up with better quality replacements. He felt the bearing Bullseye used where junk, but for them to come up with a better replacement we would have to buy a minimum of 1000 pieces. Obviously that never happened.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

IF52 said:


> It always seemed to me that Bullseye used crappy bearing or at least bearings and concepts that were wrong for the application. When you read their instructions for their cranks it says to leave just a slight amount of looseness to help make the bearings last longer. The hub instruction say something a little different, but in either case you couldn't take out the slack no matter what anyway without putting them bearings in a bind. The bearings they used have way too much clearance to start with and have no way to facilitate preloading them, so you wind up with loose bearings all the time which is murder on the balls and races.
> 
> My friend Rem approached a customer of ours who worked at Bearings Inc in Atlanta many years ago about coming up with better quality replacements. He felt the bearing Bullseye used where junk, but for them to come up with a better replacement we would have to buy a minimum of 1000 pieces. Obviously that never happened.


agreed. 
Not being able to properly preload the bb, hub bearings, or headset will IMO lead to premature bearing failure almost just as fast as overtightening... which in most cases wouldn't happen when someone who knows what they are doing are installing the components.

...and that reminds me. Maybe I'll give Boca Bearing a call. They can get you almost any size ID/OD bearing, and in almost any grade, from looseball up to full 100% ceramic.
I just put some ceramics in my old Tioga Revolvers over the last winter and they work perfect! Not a bad price either and quick shipping when ordered over the phone. :thumbsup: But, now it seems I'm losing motivation over these bullseye hubs, haha.


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## Naugas (Jun 27, 2006)

It's only cup and cone bearings that needs preload, really. And there's no need to worry about some play if it's in the cartridge bearings, it doesn't matter. But if the play is somewhere between the bearing and the hub or axle, that's really bad...

Standard cartridge bearings (deep groove) of a comparable size typically have a much longer life, and, in theory at least, are faster than angular/cup'n'cone ones. This is mostly because angular bearings by design are put under much higher stress for a given force than standard bearings. What I think is missing from every(?) hub and bb made today is a good labyrinth seal that shields off most of the water and dirt, because the seal that's on the cartridge bearing is simply not capable of keeping contamination out.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Just so folks know Bullseye looks like they're back up and Roger is fully retired.
<http://www.bullseyecycleusa.com/home>


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

Yes they are. Drop them a line.


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

I've dropped them many a line and they always reply from different e-mail addresses and seem to be more than happy to sell me "NOS" Hubs for top dollar, but they still have never sent me the front (100mm) and rear (135mm) axles that I had ordered from Roger over the phone 2 years ago that he IMMEDIATELY cashed my check for and then the new guys even promised to make good on as recently as this past summer but still no axles...It's not the like amount of money for these axles is going to break me, but I just don't like being treated like trash as a customer, that's just rude!


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

I had some issues with an order from them when Rodger was involved. His son says he is getting old and when he gets involved, things go south. His son did make efforts to straighten things out for me. Looking at their website, it looks they are making a serious attempt at a comeback. They have a third person involved and might have someone with more business experience than Roger or his son. I'm not defending their business acumen in the past, but it might be worth a try again.


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

I've been dealing with Steve Jackson ("company director") for the last couple of months and have gotten my parts quickly and had great communications from him. So, I really think they are going to be OK (based on my experience). Before I decided to do business with them I read the feedback posted here and other places. I was bit sketched, but gave it a shot. Like I say, I've been very happy. I wish them the best of luck.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

Interview with Steve. 
Nice pedals!

http://www.bmxultra.com/prosection/inside/bullseye.htm


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

I just wrote a note to Steve and told him of my situation with regard to paying for something measly as a set of axles and never getting them, so let's see how he handles it. I'll let everyone know what happens...I still like their products but I'm a real stickler for good customer service.


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

Fatmikeynyc said:


> I just wrote a note to Steve and told him of my situation with regard to paying for something measly as a set of axles and never getting them, so let's see how he handles it. I'll let everyone know what happens...I still like their products but I'm a real stickler for good customer service.


Good point FatMike. Service IS everything. Something that unfortunately seems to have been forgotten in the modern world. Sometimes I'll come back for a second helping of crap if I'm treated correctly. But then, it's my business to understand that. I don't get why a lot of businesses don't grok it.


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

*BULLSEYE HUBS is still VERY MUCH in business!*



Fatmikeynyc said:


> I just wrote a note to Steve and told him of my situation with regard to paying for something measly as a set of axles and never getting them, so let's see how he handles it. I'll let everyone know what happens...I still like their products but I'm a real stickler for good customer service.


Soooo...Steven from Bullseye immediately replied to my inquiry-on a Saturday no-less and he is giving me a credit for those axles that I never received from 2 years ago ordered via Roger and he is applying it towards a special custom hub set that I need with a 140mm rear axle for my WTB Phoenix frame and the price he quoted was quite reasonable before he lowered it with the credit for the axles!

This is very nice to hear. So he is for real and I guess that he is just trying to build that business back up, which is not an easy thing to do in this economy or as a small USA Made Bicycle component company/fabricator, as so many have disappeared.

I'm happy that you guys kept this thread going, so I could get some closure with that small problem and found out that Steven from Bullseye turned out to be a very decent guy and hopefully I'll get some hubs that I need for a cool project! :thumbsup:


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

Good to hear it Fatmike. It seems like Steven is really trying to pull the Bullseye strings back together. He must be a very busy man these days. I hope he can pull it off. I am going to support them by purchasing another set of hubs. Roger was/is a good guy and was really out front on a lot of technical stuff. I see no reason why he isn't in the Hall. If I were somebody I'd write up a nomination...

http://www.mtnbikehalloffame.com/page.cfm?pageid=7


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

hairstream said:


> Good to hear it Fatmike. It seems like Steven is really trying to pull the Bullseye strings back together. He must be a very busy man these days. I hope he can pull it off. I am going to support them by purchasing another set of hubs. Roger was/is a good guy and was really out front on a lot of technical stuff. I see no reason why he isn't in the Hall. If I were somebody I'd write up a nomination...
> 
> http://www.mtnbikehalloffame.com/page.cfm?pageid=7


Hopefully Steven will keep the Bullseye torch burning, so many other US cycling companies have gone away and very few have been able to come back...


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

Update. Just received my axles from Steven. Timely shipping and good communications. Needed a little something extra and he just threw it in the package for me. Getting ready to place my next order. Go Steven, go!


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## mytifred (Dec 25, 2008)

What's the contact info for Bullseye? The stories of lost orders sound so familiar. A few year's ago, I had the same experience, ordering a 135mm axle, repeated calls to no avail. I'd be willing to reorder, if they're now likely to be able to deliver.


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## pete_mcc (Aug 19, 2006)

I've had dealings with Steven recently and he was really quick to answer emails and bent over backwards to help this Brit out and keep my cranks turning!


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## mytifred (Dec 25, 2008)

Great! I'm glad to hear Bullseye is still/again up and rolling. How do I get in contact with Steven?


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

This is bizarre--I looked at Bullseye's website earlier this week, and forgot to post the link here. Now I can't find it! Google yielded nothing. It was something like www.bullseyeusa.com But, yeah, it looks like they are back and focusing mostly on hubs at the moment.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

BINGO! Peep this!

http://www.bullseyecycleusa.com


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## mytifred (Dec 25, 2008)

Excellent! Thanks, Vlad. Now, I can put that set of hubs back to work.


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## SubmarinerArizona (Jun 26, 2010)

*Not Really...*

*If you want to run a freewheel, pick a different hub. Stay away from the "new" Bullseye*
The "new" Bullseye hubs being sold now on eBay and elsewhere are low-grade replicas with cheap non-U.S. bearings. I learned this the hard-way. I ordered a set of Bullseye hubs from Steve Jackson for my kid's race bike. Although these hubs are advertised as U.S. made, they employ overseas manufactured bearings. The ultra-low precision construction of these hubs became apparent when they were laced-up. The bearings high-level of drag arrested free wheel spin after only 8-10 revolutions. I unlaced the wheels and returned the hubs to Bullseye. Steve Jackson of Bullseye committed to resolve the issue but never did, leaving a trail of unanswered emails while keeping the money I originally paid for the hubs in his pocket.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

SubmarinerArizona said:


> *If you want to run a freewheel, pick a different hub. Stay away from the "new" Bullseye*
> The "new" Bullseye hubs being sold now on eBay and elsewhere are low-grade replicas with cheap non-U.S. bearings. I learned this the hard-way. I ordered a set of Bullseye hubs from Steve Jackson for my kid's race bike. Although these hubs are advertised as U.S. made, they employ overseas manufactured bearings. The ultra-low precision construction of these hubs became apparent when they were laced-up. The bearings high-level of drag arrested free wheel spin after only 8-10 revolutions. I unlaced the wheels and returned the hubs to Bullseye. Steve Jackson of Bullseye committed to resolve the issue but never did, leaving a trail of unanswered emails while keeping the money I originally paid for the hubs in his pocket.


How could hub bearings "arrest" a freewheel?


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

I think he means the wheel wouldn't spin freely for a really long time, in a truing stand for instance. That really is not the best indication of bearing quality. It suggests to me that the bearing was packed with grease and had better clearance than the bearing Bullseye used in the past.


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## SubmarinerArizona (Jun 26, 2010)

IF52 is correct on the free wheel spin. This has nothing to do with a freewheel.

IF52, you are also correct with regards to the 1980's Bullseye hubs and the current replicas Steve Jackson is pedaling. In the 1980's you could lace up a new set of Bullseye hubs, torque down the wheel bolts, and they would spin until the cows came home. On the replicas, when you torque down the wheel bolts, they are good for 8-10 revolutions max.


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

U crack me up Sub.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

SubmarinerArizona said:


> In the 1980's you could lace up a new set of Bullseye hubs, torque down the wheel bolts, and they would spin until the cows came home.


Yeah, that was so cool until the rattling from the axle play drove you insane and you switched to Profiles (or almost any other hub with threaded pre-load collars; gt, hutch, tnt for example). Bullseyes always sucked.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Sub - Steve didn't tell you that the "new" bullseyes are only suitable for trailer queen 80's bmx restorations that will never get ridden ? 

He found a hell of a niche - All of the good old hubs are so hard to find and/or super expensive in show-worthy shape (Good luck finding a nice set of profile gyrolites for less than $600). With the bulleyes you have the top of the line 80's looks at a much lower price. There's more bullseyes on high end 80's bmx bikes now then there were back then.


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## Naugas (Jun 27, 2006)

92gli said:


> Yeah, that was so cool until the rattling from the axle play drove you insane and you switched to Profiles (or almost any other hub with threaded pre-load collars; gt, hutch, tnt for example). Bullseyes always sucked.


Hey, you actually seem to have experience from these hubs and know what you are talking about!  I'm curious about this, was the play actually between the axle and the bearings? Why doesn't that go away when you mount the wheel and tighten up the axle screws?

I would have thought the force from tightening the wheel into place squeezed the outer collars tight to the inner races of the bearings, so there couldn't be no play there. But there could be substantial play in the bearings themself I guess, could that be mistaken for axle play?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Naugas said:


> Hey, you actually seem to have experience from these hubs and know what you are talking about!  I'm curious about this, was the play actually between the axle and the bearings? Why doesn't that go away when you mount the wheel and tighten up the axle screws?
> 
> I would have thought the force from tightening the wheel into place squeezed the outer collars tight to the inner races of the bearings, so there couldn't be no play there. But there could be substantial play in the bearings themself I guess, could that be mistaken for axle play?


To be honest I can't remember exactly how they go together. But I do remember the collars slipped on to the axle and had 1 tiny allen set screw. And washers were involved. For some reason tightening the wheel didn't effect this (if it did the wheels wouldn't spin at all right ? cause on a bmx bike you need to tighten them pretty firmly.) Whatever it was they actually had side to side play with the wheel bolts fully torqued down. Also, one of the bearings on the front hub I had would actually just fall out of the hub bodies... total crap tolerances. My friends dad had similar experiences with his as well. All of my friends and I switched to tnt hubs when they came out, they were the hot **** on the east coast - totally bulletproof and amazing "spin" with no play.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

The bearings Bullseye originally used had too much clearance, and no way to establish any preload. I am sure somebody here can explain this more clearly, but clearance is supposed to be allowable tolerance that exists prior to assembling a rotating component and preload is just what it sounds like, the amount of load applied to the rotating assembly prior to use. Clearance is supposed to be taken up when you put the components together, say for instance when you press the bearings into the hub shell and then press in the axle, but not establish preload. Back in the day I think folks believed that looser bearings meant less resistance meant faster. So I suspect Bullseye intentionally spec'ed looser than necessary bearings because they thought it would make faster wheels.

I had friends that would undo the little grub screw and then tighten the wheel into the frame to take out as much play as possible without binding the bearings, then tighten the grub screw. This only sort of worked. Wrong bearings for the application.


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## Naugas (Jun 27, 2006)

Now I see what happens - the collars are not wide enough, so the fork ends doesn't compress them. They just sit loose on the axle, hold there by the set screws. Strange.

IF52 - there are two bearing types used in hubs, first the adjustable cup and cone type which needs preload to work optimally, then there is the cartridge single groove type where the bearing surfaces must be aligned, and where any axial misalignment would mean severely lower performance in every way.

Cartridge bearings are not adjustable, you replace them as they wear out, but their performance is better in many aspects than adjustable bearings.

What you describe last in your post should actually be the correct way of doing it if only the bearings and axle distance are matched and mounted as they should. The bearing itself is an excellent choice for the application, but either the hub shells, the seats of the bearings or the axle distance seems out of tolerance if the bearings bind when you tighten and squeeze the collars.

Bearing play and tolerances follows the rule that lower tolerances - tighter bearings/less play = higher price. Cheap bearings can have noticeable play when new, especially in a situation as in a bicycle wheel - bearings close together on the axle and a long handle, the rim/tire where the play in the bearings is multiplied. However, even quite noticeable amounts of play are perfectly acceptable and does not affect the performance of the bearing much. I don't know where you as a rider can start to feel the effect of bearing play, but my guess is that it can be quite a lot too.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Cartidge bearings are available in different configurations some of which can be preloaded. Yes, generally non-high misalignment radial contact bearings have been used in hubs, but that does not mean they were/are the best solution. Chris King hubs for instance uses bearing that require preload adjustment to take out play, as does Hadley IIRC. They are cartridge bearings as well. 

Check the SKF or F A G bearing guides regarding bearing preload

The bearings Bullseye used were low quality, lightly greased and started out with too much clearance. You could basically take a Bullseye bearing, whether for their hubs or cranks and rattle the inner race against the balls even when new.

Play in a bearing is not acceptable as it does not allow the bearings and races to stay in contact. This can lead to brinelling as the bearings are hammered against the races. A properly adjusted bearing does not exhibit brinelling (pitting).


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

Oh dear,

Bullseye drama. better stay away and buy a different brand of hubs. Here's a crazy idea buy NOS hubs made bitd.

If I had to buy freewheel hubs today I would find the nicest set of 1st gen Phil Wood hubs and call it a day. Best made hubs of all time.

I liked Bullseye hubs until Roger sold out.


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## Naugas (Jun 27, 2006)

IF52 said:


> Cartidge bearings are available in different configurations some of which can be preloaded. Yes, generally non-high misalignment radial contact bearings have been used in hubs, but that does not mean they were/are the best solution. Chris King hubs for instance uses bearing that require preload adjustment to take out play, as does Hadley IIRC. They are cartridge bearings as well.
> 
> Check the SKF or F A G bearing guides regarding bearing preload
> 
> ...


Yes, there are more kinds of cartridge bearings, I was reffering to single row deep groove bearings. They are the most common ones in hubs, work really well, and should not be preloaded in a bicycle hub. I didn't know Chris King had some other kind of bearings, I must check it out. Chris King knows bearings, that's for sure. Surly too have some kind of adjustable cartridge bearings, but as I understand they are simply crap. I suspect the kind of bearings that Surly use are originally made adjustable for minimizing axial play, and that the contact angles of the races are not designed for being adjustable to compensate for bearing wear. (Again, this is just my suspicion, I haven't verified it in any way.)

Some years ago I was looking at the Bullseye hub as a starting point for making my own hubs with larger bearings than normally used, and labyrinth seals like the Maxi-Car hubs. The Bullseyes construction is very simple and effective materialwise, with the tube and pressfit flanges, but apparently there are details that should be changed.


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## ultrarad (Dec 4, 2010)

standard cartridge bearings should not be preloaded ! As for bullseye hubs they were designed to work without preload. Older bullseye hubs had an inside spacer which was manufactured to EXACTLY match the individual hub width, and the spacer was even numbered. Somewhen in the late eigthies/early nineties the changed to standard length inside spacers that were ALWAYS slightly too long as for surely preventing preloading; to prevent side to side play ONE bearing was supposed to be glued in, preferably with nut glue or similiar; the other bearing was supposed to work as a sliding bearing. This concept of one bearing fix , the other loose is quite a standard technical setup; and certainly was way easier for bullseye to manufacture than to hone each individual spacer to its proper length.


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## Naugas (Jun 27, 2006)

Interesting, thanks for the information. It seems then that it was only low quality bearings that have given a bad reputation to Bullseye hubs? Or do they actually have a good reputation, and it's only those that mistake bad bearings for a bad hub that are very vocal about it and gets noticed a lot? Surly lots of people must have tried putting good bearings in them at some point and then there shouldn't be any problem, or?


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## ultrarad (Dec 4, 2010)

..........and then there shouldn't be any problem, or?[/QUOTE]

I never had any ...... nor any customers. Though admittedly supplied bearings were often rather low quality. But with this type of cartridge bearing and construction there is , and should be, always some play; it's a question of how much, not if or if not.

If no play is wanted, a different construction and bearing type has to be chosen (e.g. as in the formerly mentioned maxicar hubs)


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