# Ax-Lightness seatpost failure, wow



## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Take a peek at this, ouch:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ax-Lightness-Da...hash=item260304784624&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Wow, that hurts, specially the wallet, but I think what hurts the most is the response from AX, you can hardly beleive it. :nono:


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

[sarcasm]It's a nice broken post, but the price is ridiculous. I could buy a brand new seatpost and break it myself for less than that.  [/sarcasm]


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## scoutcat (Mar 30, 2008)

just goes to show manufacturers that its far cheaper to replace a part than endure a motivated and unsatisfied customer. no one that sees those pics will ever buy an AX post...


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

scoutcat said:


> no one that sees those pics will ever buy an AX post...


not necessarily true.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

rkj__ said:


> It's a nice broken post, but the price is ridiculous. I could buy a brand new seatpost and break it myself for less than that.


I doubt he's wanting to sell it. The eBay listing was more of a caveat emptor than anything else I'd believe.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

IAmtnbikr said:


> I doubt he's wanting to sell it. The eBay listing was more of a caveat emptor than anything else I'd believe.


I doubt you sensed the sarcasm in my post. I'll add a smilie to that post just for you.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

rkj__ said:


> I doubt you sensed the sarcasm in my post. I'll add a smilie to that post just for you.


 :thumbsup:


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## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

Yeah, there is a big thread on this in the road forum at Starbikes ww site. The seller is a member over there. He's just posted it to give bad exposure to Ax, and not to try and sell it. Actually its quite impossible since he sent it to Ax and didn't get it back.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

To be fair - the guy did break is using it on a cross bike instead of a road bike.I don't know why anyone would use one sure it's light but look how thin it is! There's having something light then there's just being stupid.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

When people and carbon go too far.

Anyone see how thin the carbon was at the failure area? And it left one nice sharp spike, to boot.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Tiffster said:


> To be fair - the guy did break is using it on a cross bike instead of a road bike.I don't know why anyone would use one sure it's light but look how thin it is! There's having something light then there's just being stupid.


Yeah, I think I read that over at WW too. Used on a cross bike. Also, I the post was past the 2 year warranty. I'm not sure why he's complaining.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

It was interesting that the fracture appeared to run through the area with the embossed AX logo where it was molded into the post. It's never a good idea to create stress risers like that in composite materials. A decal or screen print would be a better choice. :skep:


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

I wondered the same thing; a logo in there? It sure is an awfully thin layup, wow. Even being a weight weenie I am smart enough to know where my limits are, lol. Being injured or having to push your bike home is not worth it.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

They are designing close to the bone if it is OK for road use and not cyclocross, there's some bumpy roads out there too. Unless it is spec'd for track use only or something. It likely wouldn't last 100m on a real mountain bike ride if that's the case. Might be a good red flag for those people using super light road parts on MTB's. :skep: 

Here's the pic for posterity.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

I cannot find anywhere that says the Daedalus is a "road only" seat post. You can get them custom for application per their webpage but stock versions should be able to take anything. They guy probably had a sweet bike with a lot of other high end zoot that did not break. 

Their website does say:

"Daedalus is a seat post with a edge misalignment." So that could hint they are prone to failure.

To be sure I have no idea what the materials, labor and OH costs are on a post like this but you would think for the cost they would be willing to replace/repair it. I also had a Europa post brake but not catastrophically. Ax has been floating on a cloud of hubris for a long time. They make some cool stuff but a lot of it looses function - for example their lovely road brakes are much less powerful than regular brakes.

For high end seatposts I recommend New Ultimate carbon (no laid back version). I'm heavy and mtb but my New Ultimate has held up great. The price is better than AX and Schmolke. I've seen kcnc failures and no New Ultimate failures on the carbon post. I would like to try a Schmolke though based on my positive TLO handlebar experience.

Had this been a thompson seat post (unlikely) the guy would've gotten a new seatpost. It does look like something wasn't made/designed right with this failure - embossed logo.


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## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

NU...same story. I don´t know what happened exactly to the Daedalus but in NU´s case it´s being proved more and more that failures are due to poor design...


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

indian fire trail said:


> NU...same story. I don´t know what happened exactly to the Daedalus but in NU´s case it´s being proved more and more that failures are due to poor design...


Whoa.

That doesn't look pretty


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

indian fire trail said:


> NU...same story. I don´t know what happened exactly to the Daedalus but in NU´s case it´s being proved more and more that failures are due to poor design...


that's the very first failure i see of a aluminium New Ultimate seatpost!!
now in their defence they also have a weight limit and it is a road seatpost but as always people will use such posts also on their MTBs (me included!!). So just posting a picture without any detailed info on how it crashed is not fair to the manufacturer and misleading info for the masses.

All New Ultimate failures i know of had been the carbon versions. basically ALL carbones i ever sold failed and needed to be replaced. that's the reason today those seatposts are same weight if not heavier than their aluminium counterpart. they once were around 100-110g...now they are about even with the aluminium versions. needless to say i stopped selling those carbon seatposts after the first samples came back to me. but I am still very confident in the aluminium version. as always - you need to think a minute if such a lightweight item might be ideal for your weight and riding [email protected] Slobbergoggy - if i remember right your not a lightweight. at your weight i'd be really careful with the NU carbon post!!!

shown below old vs new NU carbon

Back on topic:
i once broke the rails of my AX-Lightness road-saddle and Axel, the head of AX-Lightness, told me i should bring the saddle to Eurobike where i would get a new one right away. that seemed cool and that said i went to his booth with the saddle but it took him 1 FULL YEAR and several phonecalls to finally give me a replacement saddle again at Eurobike the following year. however that saddle weighed 10g more so i sold it right away. sorry - but those guys $uck big time!! In the meantime i had bought a newly released Becker Carbon at 39g....that saddle went straight onto my roadbike but after a couple of months it was toast as well...well - it was a pre-production and had 1 layer less than the later production versions. so it had to happen sooner or later. BUT i got a replacement within 1 week. that saddle weighed 48g and that's doing still fine. No more AX-Lightness for me


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

What are you guys doing riding your WW bikes???!!! They just for holding down scales... 

The risks some peeps take. Scary, and expensive at that.

I applaud the guy for spending money on an ebay ad to out the mfg. In a niche market with super high margins, customer service will make or kill your business.


Oh, and just say no to carbon posts on cx bikes. My buddy broke a EC90 aero post after a handful of rides. He's all of 125lbs.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Nino, I have a question for you... please check your PM's. Thanks


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Nino never gives up a chance to sell his ****.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*huh??*



Jerk_Chicken said:


> Nino never gives up a chance to sell his ****.


please stop your stupid comments. it's clearly about broken parts not about any sales.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

No, you just don't give up a chance to insert somewhere that you're the guy selling these parts so people go to you. Buy a friggin' ad, for christ's sake.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*so what?*



Jerk_Chicken said:


> No, you just don't give up a chance to insert somewhere that you're the guy selling these parts so people go to you. Buy a friggin' ad, for christ's sake.


there's other guys posting here as well where you know they are into the business. no problem especially if they just share their experience. that's what such forums are for, right?

by the way - i don't have a shop nor do i make my living by selling parts. i'm an avid weight-weenie like many others out there. now stop such comments.we had such debates on and on. here it's about broken items. if you have some insight on AX-Lightness or the mentioned New Ultimates or other WW-carbon failure feel free to let the community know just as i did -thanks!


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

You get into trouble spamming. Just buy an ad and stop being so cheap. PS- the parts that you "develop" were all over Eurobike.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

I didn't see anything wrong with Nino's post; found it rather informative myself. I PM'd him with a different question I knew he could answer for me based on his knowledge of the specific idea I had in mind. Thanks for the reply too Nino.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> the parts that you "develop" were all over Eurobike.


sure...that's a full year later i can't hinder them from making money. i'm no manufacturer, i don't have my own brand nor do i have a shop....i am just a fanatic weight-weenie with ideas and enthusiasm. and i have a whole lot of experience with lightweight parts which i like to share. once again-that's what it's all about in here. but you seem to have a whole lot of experience by talking $hit only. maybe time to just sit back, read and learn.

gute nacht!


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## HandyMan (Feb 25, 2008)

I believe nino's insight into this matter is very informative. Without him being a supplier, how else would he know that all of the posts broke? Besides, hes not exactly boasting about them!


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## MWWH (Mar 9, 2004)

Yeah Ninos the man. I'm glad he answers back to the naysayers. Its cool that he shares all his WW insights with us. I don't care that he may occasionally be biased (who isn't?)cause I didn't graduate from preschool only yesterday. I think he is pretty objective actually and like his views on lightweight stuff. Top work Nino.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

HandyMan said:


> ... Besides, hes not exactly boasting about them!


may i correct my initial post: i don't sell NO New Ultimate seatposts anymore!!! No Carbon and no aluminium either. so definitely no promotion of any sort in here. i am using my own NU aluminium seatposts with confidence though.

i just wanted to point out that you can find pictures of broken parts all over the planet.low-end and high-end parts alike. pictures just need some clarification. that AX-Lightness seatpost is a bad thing. i had a big smile on my face since after my own experience with them i can't stand those guys either BUT when people mount it on a cross-bike it somehow changes my point of view. without that tiny bit of added info you would think ALL AX-Lightness seatposts are too weak, right? that is for sure not the case.

that's why i said you need more info on such a picture otherwise it is misleading information.


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## HandyMan (Feb 25, 2008)

either way, having that imprinted logo is a BAD design!


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Embossed logo is DUMB.

Carbon is only an excellent material for many applications when people designing it have a clue. It either needs a careful certification process, or simplicity of design. Manufacturers of bling, who are just after your fat profit margins have neither.

I will not advise anybody to trust their behind to whether the technician who laid out your blingy parts was not hangover, or to whether the designer got a clue.


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## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

nino said:


> *that's the very first failure i see of a aluminium New Ultimate seatpost!!*now in their defence they also have a weight limit and it is a road seatpost but as always people will use such posts also on their MTBs (me included!!). So just posting a picture without any detailed info on how it crashed is not fair to the manufacturer and misleading info for the masses.
> 
> All New Ultimate failures i know of had been the carbon versions. basically ALL carbones i ever sold failed and needed to be replaced. that's the reason today those seatposts are same weight if not heavier than their aluminium counterpart. they once were around 100-110g...now they are about even with the aluminium versions. needless to say i stopped selling those carbon seatposts after the first samples came back to me. but I am still very confident in the aluminium version. as always - you need to think a minute if such a lightweight item might be ideal for your weight and riding [email protected] Slobbergoggy - if i remember right your not a lightweight. at your weight i'd be really careful with the NU carbon post!!!
> 
> ...


This is the fifth i´ve seen so far...this one particularly comes from an spanish rider with double suspension and weighing in less than 70 kilos...

Last year in the very first race of the season I broke a bolt from my KCNC Ti Pro Lite...


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## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

Agree, with carbon or any material its definitely important not to introduce additional areas of potential stress like the daft stuff we see.

/*--------
Come on guys get off Ninos back. I frankly think its the above idiotic comments that devalue threads such as these. Its a free world, you are free to ignore his posts if you so wish, but please take it off line. There are times I may be inclined to agree but this is not one of them. The info provided is useful, and one of the reasons we participate in forums like this.
-------*/ rant off :-(


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## ilostmypassword (Dec 9, 2006)

It always makes me chuckle that weight weenies rant about product failures. They are all ready bordering on failure due to their weight weenie construction. What do you expect exactly?

Go fly on a waaaahhhh waaaaaaahcopter all the way to crysville.

Get a bike with real kit and get over it.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

ilostmypassword said:


> It always makes me chuckle that weight weenies rant about product failures. They are all ready bordering on failure due to their weight weenie construction. What do you expect exactly?
> 
> Go fly on a waaaahhhh waaaaaaahcopter all the way to crysville.
> 
> Get a bike with real kit and get over it.


   I hear your ilostmypassword!!! It's about time someone set ww's straight. Word to your mother!


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

ilostmypassword said:


> It always makes me chuckle that weight weenies rant about product failures. They are all ready bordering on failure due to their weight weenie construction. What do you expect exactly?
> 
> Go fly on a waaaahhhh waaaaaaahcopter all the way to crysville.
> 
> Get a bike with real kit and get over it.


Yep, there are still plenty of light parts that are reliable and safe to ride. I doubt you'll save much using those parts over some that are very questionable. I have no issues using some awfully light parts, but I've tried to do my research and asked the right questions before putting on something that's possibly going to fail.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

FYI: If you've read the thread over on weightweenies and were familiar with AX posts: AX claims the post is rated for MTB use and Road use... but not for CX. Of course they don't explicitly state anywhere anywhere that CX use is off limits. But, they do specifically state that MTB use is covered. Most people would assume that if I part is good enough for MTB that they could use it on a CX bike. This may not be the best assumption.... but the guy didn't break the post on a remount or a crash. I think that AX should have stood behind their product. 

It sure seems from the pics that it was a poor layup design where their logo is that contributed to the failure.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

briscoelab said:


> I think that AX should have stood behind their product.


I'd agree if the item was still under the warranty period. I have to agree with AX on this one......if they warranty this post, what about a post that is 2 years past the warranty date......or 5 or 10?

I think that the original poster was not too clear on stating this up front.

I know that if I had a product, whether it be a bike component, television, computer, etc., once past the warranty period I know I'm on my own.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

civil said:


> I'd agree if the item was still under the warranty period. I have to agree with AX on this one......if they warranty this post, what about a post that is 2 years past the warranty date......or 5 or 10?


AFAIK Ax has no warrantee and they replace what they what when they want which is very rare.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

I couldn't find anything on their site, but in a posted e-mail from the AX employee in the original ww thread, he (employee) refers to the post being out of the warranty period.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47147&start=120

So that would be 3rd/4th hand information........ Some anonymous guy posting something on the internet....it's gotta be true, haha.

I wouldn't be buying their stuff regardless, I'm still too fat


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## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

briscoelab said:


> FYI: AX claims the post is rated for MTB use and Road use... but not for CX.


Sweet!!! That means I can still use their seatpost when I ride my road bike on mtb trails!!:thumbsup:


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

So it's the sudden awkward mounts and dismounts that cause seat post failures in CX?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

rockyuphill said:


> So it's the sudden awkward mounts and dismounts that cause seat post failures in CX?


Not sure about dismounts, but by my precision calibrated ass acceleration gauge, I take more of a beating riding a steel fixie on gravel path then when riding my 6" trail bike through a rock garden.

I would not be terribly surprised that riding a full suspension seated (not talking about hacking off cliffs), it is more gentle on the post and seat rails.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

rockyuphill said:


> So it's the sudden awkward mounts and dismounts that cause seat post failures in CX?


I bet you're right. Seems cyclocrossers are always racers, and in muddy condtions, so they're they're trying to jump back on with muddy cleats, maybe slipping and landing on the seat wrong.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

I am SO GLAD you guys posted these pix. I was going to get an Ax'ed Lightness seatpost. So much for that. I'm keeping the Thomson Masterpiece forever now!


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## fernandoj (Mar 19, 2008)

Yet another

https://www.foromtb.com/f38/censo-de-componentes-ligeros-rotos-203279-50.html










:nono:


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## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Yeaahhh...and it´s easy to see the failure is exactly in the same place as the one I posted some days ago...

NU are poorly designed...

Hola, Fernandoj...soy marinito en Foromtb


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## fernandoj (Mar 19, 2008)

I have to add that I've seen three NU broken at the same point so far.

Ya me acuerdo de tu antiguo avatar marinito


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## Didier Carpentier (Jan 13, 2004)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> No, you just don't give up a chance to insert somewhere that you're the guy selling these parts so people go to you. Buy a friggin' ad, for christ's sake.


in my country we call people with your attitude... /jaloux/envieux/tordu/raté
i'm sure you'll recognize yourself within...
have a good day and let the moderator decide if or where.
just send interesting thread once in a while, do something constructive instead of childishfully agress one of the character that bring so many interesting topic on this board.
unlike most.


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## Didier Carpentier (Jan 13, 2004)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> No, you just don't give up a chance to insert somewhere that you're the guy selling these parts so people go to you. Buy a friggin' ad, for christ's sake.


and also i wanna to say that your nickname suits you like a glove:
JERK... CHICKEN...
gee some really call troubles or else mockery.
what went thru your mind when you decided to call yourself on this (or else anywhere) JERK CHICKEN. how old are you pal?


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Man, just seeing all that carbon carnage, makes me want to keep my 191g Thomson Masterpiece forever again and again...


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Didier Carpentier said:


> and also i wanna to say that your nickname suits you like a glove:
> JERK... CHICKEN...
> gee some really call troubles or else mockery.
> what went thru your mind when you decided to call yourself on this (or else anywhere) JERK CHICKEN. how old are you pal?


I am not sure how old is Jerk Chicken, but you just came across as about 15 year old.

Way to go sucking up to Nino.


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

there should be a topic created called when amateurs play with dangerous materials


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## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

to all the owners of the broken posts, do you still have the seat gut assemblies? willing to buy them if you want to get rid of them


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