# KCNC V-Brake: LIGHT!!!



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

i just got the first few sets of the new KCNC V-Brakes....very sweet!

just have a look at the pics below. more details tonight...i have to go to work.

the pads weigh 46,4g/pair. so there is definitely plenty of tuning potential left


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Whooo!!! Those levers are light! When will you have prices on those?

EDIT: Sorry for asking here, will send you a PM, since some people get bothered here...


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## Kitakeng (Oct 29, 2006)

Very impressive weight!!

Besides the pads, suppose there aren't much to save more grams...

Can't wait to hear how they perform!!


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

*The weights look good...*

but PERFORMANCE is the true key on these. If these are truly Extralite beaters, they must perform as well or better!

The levers seem a bit light to be super sturdy, but time will tell. How short are the arms comapred to the Exralite UltraBrakes? Even if they have a tas less power than the UB, if used with cermaic rims it might be good enough for real performance.

We will have to get somone who is completley objective to compare them to the Extralite stuff. It must be someone who has really used and abused the EL stuff.

Thanks for the weight Nino.

Axis II....You better have some of these coming soon .


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## Dream Bikes (Oct 1, 2005)

Levers :

Very impressive weight!
Is there a "simil kooka" system fo fit them on handlebar???

Brakes :

I can't see sealed bearings...
What about springs preload regulation?
Titanium or ergal pad holder nuts and bolts?


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

use the forums to advertise much? this sh!t is really startin to p!ss me off.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

chequamagon said:


> use the forums to advertise much? this sh!t is really startin to p!ss me off.


You know it's a fine line. Everyone wants to see the weights and pic of these things. So nino posts stuff and you as well as others complain. Yes nino sells most the stuff he know shows weights for. But is it his fault that we can get things faster than you guys can and post to the forum? Now where in this thread did he mention he is selling these.

He is not flat out putting in the posts he is selling these or what his pricing is.

This becomes a touchy issue fro everyone and especially dealers or others that sell or can obtain itmes to sell. 
If we post pics before anyone else can you guys ***** and complain. If we have itmes and don't post them you ***** and complain!

So which is is it? Like any dealer who gets new stuff, nino just wants to share verified weights, pics, specs etc and other dealers on all these forums do.

Nino does take out classifieds ads now on his most popular items that we can get/sell.

As long as you are not saying in the post the price you are selling them for or as a flat out advertisement, this is FINE by MTBR mods and Gregg.

So in your mind, anyone with a business or sell parts should NEVER post a pic, specs, etc because they sell them?:rant: :skep: :madman: 

So we should wait for saps like you to buy them 3 months later and then post pics?


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

*Amen!*



DIRT BOY said:


> You know it's a fine line. Everyone wants to see the weights and pic of these things. So nino posts stuff and you as well as others complain. Yes nino sells most the stuff he know shows weights for. But is it his fault that we can get things faster than you guys can and post to the forum? Now where in this thread did he mention he is selling these.
> 
> He is not flat out putting in the posts he is selling these or what his pricing is.
> 
> ...


 Right on! :thumbsup:


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## Ardent (Dec 18, 2006)

chequamagon said:


> use the forums to advertise much? this sh!t is really startin to p!ss me off.


It's a fine line, to be sure.

The exact same thing happened in the 29er forum with mikesee talking about a new bike. I like mikesee and think he's a good guy and a helpful poster, but I think there the ARGH ADVERTISMENT ARGH response was more warranted, because to be honest his 'review' read far, far more like a pr press release than an unbalanced evaluation. There, given it was a new bike, it was a good idea to post a thread, but the 'colour' of his language to describe it wasn't anything close to a proper review.

However, here, all that's in the thread is a picture of the parts everyone (interested in v-brakes  ) in save some weight has been looking for some time, and a true measure of their weight. Nino isn't spamming us with his prices, or anything else, he just presents a new product we'd like to see more of. Calm down, mate. If it was a post like: "ZOMG THIS IS THE BEST I HAVE 5 SETS TO SELL AT $$$ BUY NOW" then feel free to get worked up. But this ain't anywhere close.


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## bandito greg (Dec 23, 2005)

chequamagon said:


> use the forums to advertise much? this sh!t is really startin to p!ss me off.


honestly who the hell cares?

I think its great that we have the ability to get things from people in the fourms that would be hard to find otherwise...and to be able to see the weights when nino gets in some new product is also very helpful...


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

bandito greg said:


> honestly who the hell cares?
> 
> I think its great that we have the ability to get things from people in the fourms that would be hard to find otherwise...and to be able to see the weights when nino gets in some new product is also very helpful...


I agree, when did he say he was selling em. I say as long as he doesnt advertise prices and doesnt start for sale threads and as long as its NEW pertinant ww information, let it go!!!!!!

there are bigger evils in the world than policing grey area forum etiquette.

Jeez.....


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

DIRT BOY said:


> You know it's a fine line. Everyone wants to see the weights and pic of these things. So nino posts stuff and you as well as others complain. Yes nino sells most the stuff he know shows weights for. But is it his fault that we can get things faster than you guys can and post to the forum? Now where in this thread did he mention he is selling these.
> 
> He is not flat out putting in the posts he is selling these or what his pricing is.
> 
> ...


I understand that point of view. And you are right, it is good because he has access to stuff we dont. What gets me fired up about this is that somehow he sneaks through, when others (such as myself in the 29er board) have been deleted and kicked off MTBR for similar posts, only to have to argue my way back in.

I want to know from people, is this OK or not? If it is OK by the whole forum, then great. That would be the wishes of the forum. But everyone should then have that priveledge.

If its not OK, then we should do something about these posts.

Its really hard to sit here and grin when I have plugged products (without prices or direct sales) on the board that shops I work for have sold, and I have been shunned for it. Yet when Nino does it he is held up like God.

The double standard is not cool, and it is primarily what ticks me off. Right now, based on my past experience and the written rules, I interpret the rules to be NO ADS. But if people want this to be OK, then is it OK for everyone? So I can start plugging my shop again when we get new cool parts in?


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

Ardent said:


> It's a fine line, to be sure.
> 
> The exact same thing happened in the 29er forum with mikesee talking about a new bike. I like mikesee and think he's a good guy and a helpful poster, but I think there the ARGH ADVERTISMENT ARGH response was more warranted, because to be honest his 'review' read far, far more like a pr press release than an unbalanced evaluation. There, given it was a new bike, it was a good idea to post a thread, but the 'colour' of his language to describe it wasn't anything close to a proper review.


Agreed. The difference to me though is that Nino sells this stuff and Mikesee does not. Mike sells wheels, and if he did the same thing with wheels, I would be calling him out. But he doesnt sell Lenz bikes, nor (as far as I know) profit from the sales of them. I know he gets them free, but I get a lot of free stuff too, and review it here.

Direct monetary gain through posts on the message board is the issue.


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## Ardent (Dec 18, 2006)

chequamagon said:


> I understand that point of view. And you are right, it is good because he has access to stuff we dont. What gets me fired up about this is that somehow he sneaks through, when others (such as myself in the 29er board) have been deleted and kicked off MTBR for similar posts, only to have to argue my way back in.
> 
> I want to know from people, is this OK or not? If it is OK by the whole forum, then great. That would be the wishes of the forum. But everyone should then have that priveledge.
> 
> ...


Yeah, from what I see the rules are NO ADS. If you get some new cool parts in which we've not seen before, and have pretty pictures and weights, I doubt people would jump on you, go for it :thumbsup: If however you're posting stuff like "HAVE NEW XTR FC-M970 $$$$ BUY NOW" or "WOW LOOK AT THIS I'VE NEVER FELT IT SO GOOD BUY THIS" then expect people to jump on you. Bottom line, if you've something which people would be interested in, you keep any review fair and balanced, and don't attempt to push for a sale, then I'd say go for it.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

chequamagon said:


> I understand that point of view. And you are right, it is good because he has access to stuff we dont. What gets me fired up about this is that somehow he sneaks through, when others (such as myself in the 29er board) have been deleted and kicked off MTBR for similar posts, only to have to argue my way back in.
> 
> I want to know from people, is this OK or not? If it is OK by the whole forum, then great. That would be the wishes of the forum. But everyone should then have that priveledge.
> 
> ...


I don't know anyhting about your stuff on the 29er board.

If your shop gets ANY WW stuff that would appeal to us, please post pics, specs, etc. How the hell is info supposed to be shared right?

AQgain, I have NO IDEA what you post on the 29er board, but things are getting stupid about this crap.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

chequamagon said:


> use the forums to advertise much? this sh!t is really startin to p!ss me off.


Some poor bastard got told today his 6 year old daughter was killed or his wife has cancer or he lost his job and his house - and you allow yourself to be pissed off because someone is showing us some new bike stuff they just got in ?

You poor little thing ! Why don't you simply avoid reading a thread if you suspect your feelings might be hurt ?


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## Cabdoctor (Jun 22, 2006)

And with all do respect, some of us ARE curious about buying these and so finding out things like: MSRP, Who has them cheapest, Can you buy levers seperately, etc, etc is important and extremely helpful to us. After all, why do we go to this forum? You cant save weight without spending money.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*more details...*

some guys don't seem to know me well enough

anyway - i have further details on these brakes (no prices, no availability....just sharing info - ok:madmax: )
so:
1 pair of pads: 46,4g
padcarrier: 12,3g
padcarrier+bolt: 23,0g (note the special konical head of the bolt! no standard parts but still heavy steel for the bolt)
standard steel nuts(4 pcs): 14,8g
aluminium nuts: 5,8g

so just replacing the 4 steel nuts with aluminium saves 9,1g


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## Cabdoctor (Jun 22, 2006)

Are those "chain ring bolts" holding the lever together?


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## Dream Bikes (Oct 1, 2005)

Thanks Nino for the weights :thumbsup: 
The bolt colour let me suppose steel, but I didn't believe it...heavy steel on a lightweight component!!!


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

DIRT BOY said:


> but PERFORMANCE is the true key on these. If these are truly Extralite beaters, they must perform as well or better!
> 
> The levers seem a bit light to be super sturdy, but time will tell. How short are the arms comapred to the Exralite UltraBrakes? Even if they have a tas less power than the UB, if used with cermaic rims it might be good enough for real performance.
> 
> ...


No. I do not have a set of these coming soon, but of course I would be very happy to review them, someone just needs to send me a set.  So far I have the EL system on my SS 29er, my hardtail geared 26er race rig and now my FS Kona Hei Hei Supreme. I have had nothing but excellent experience with the EL brake system having raced/trained hard on it all last season. I asked MadCow (Fairwheelbikes.com) to do a head-to-head review of the KCNC system to the Extralite system over on the WeightWeenies MTB forum. He knows his poop so I'll wait for the verdict from him before I do anything.

What's up with my headset? I need one special FAST!!!


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

DIRT BOY said:


> I don't know anyhting about your stuff on the 29er board.
> 
> If your shop gets ANY WW stuff that would appeal to us, please post pics, specs, etc. How the hell is info supposed to be shared right?
> 
> AQgain, I have NO IDEA what you post on the 29er board, but things are getting stupid about this crap.


Tread lightly DB or the roof might just fall in on your head! I wonder why we NEVER see anything like this over on the WeightWeenies site? Well, it's because they would be all over it faster then flies on shiat. No question about it. I have experienced people getting shut down HARD for this stuff in other forums here on MTBR so it really is confusing that this forum operates by different rules. Now, I appreciate your position too, and I do like to see what vendors have to offer now and then so long as it's done with some decorum- that fine line you were talking about. I'm just here because I love this stuff and it's a totally different vibe from my being here because I need to pay my bills. In the end I think we can have room for everyone as long as everyone plays nice. Make sense?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*more....*

guys - stop whining! this is about a new product on the market.

so after seeing these rather heavy pads i think further tuning is possible than just some aluminium nuts.

i have tuned some MTB pads in the past and these weighed 32g/pair (dremelled padcarriers, aluminium bolt and nuts). that's about the lightest you can get with MTB pads. so these pads would save 28g on the KCNC brakes....188g/set

further tuning would be possible with lightweight carbon roadpads such as BTP or tuned Jagwires: 24g/pair... bringing the set of brakes to just 160g.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Axis II said:


> Tread lightly DB or the roof might just fall in on your head! I wonder why we NEVER see anything like this over on the WeightWeenies site? Well, it's because they would be all over it faster then flies on shiat. No question about it. I have experienced people getting shut down HARD for this stuff in other forums here on MTBR so it really is confusing that this forum operates by different rules. Now, I appreciate your position too, and I do like to see what vendors have to offer now and then so long as it's done with some decorum- that fine line you were talking about. I'm just here because I love this stuff and it's a totally different vibe from my being here because I need to pay my bills. In the end I think we can have room for everyone as long as everyone plays nice. Make sense?


 Well WW is getting pretty stupid about this crap. Certain members can post ANYTHING they want and others get shut down so fast!!

These froums are to discuss things right? So a shop owner cannot show off anyhting new? That's stupid.

Yes, when I first started selling stuff, I realized very fast what the line is. I had a nice conversation via e-mail with Gregg about this and I see where he is coming from and he sees where I or vendors are coming from.

Say I get a new Becher MTB saddle in and show pics and weights, that crossing the line because I sell them? If I mention nothing about that unless someone asks, then that's fine IMO.

Ok, I get the new UltraStem UL3 MTB stem before any member here. I can post pics and weights because I sell them?  :skep:

Now when asking about what somethign is worth is the hardest of that line. Sometimes you want to really know what a used item can go for. BUT that does send a flag that your are going to sell it. So I see where this is tough becuase now memebsr start contacing you and you've used the site without paying for an ad.

If I were to ask about something like that and it DID sell because of it, I would be VERY happy to pay the $2 to MTBR by taking an ad and list it as sold.

It's a tough line to play with and I think most here try and do a very good job. Perosnally I would rather see flame wars get fixed quickly than this petty crap. BUT there is is MOD over here. When is the last time Trevor or Cloxxki checked in?

Maybe you should be a MOD. PM Gregg. Or someone here that can be fair and check up at least every other day shopuld voulenteer!

Again MTBR, RBR are great places to come and have fun. BUT everyone needs to be a little more reasonable with the whole thing.
WW is getting to be a joke! BUT I guess sometimes you ned to pull in the reins. The pissing match between CarbonSports and LEW is just stupid!


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

what is RBR ?


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

DIRT BOY said:


> Well WW is getting pretty stupid about this crap. Certain members can post ANYTHING they want and others get shut down so fast!!
> 
> These froums are to discuss things right? So a shop owner cannot show off anyhting new? That's stupid.
> 
> ...


Who's Trevor? Who'd Cloxxi?:skep:  We wouldn't be having these conversations if we did have a moderator. WE NEED ONE SPECIAL!! Maybe one of us should volunteer for the task. I don't see how we could do any worse?


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Ty said:


> what is RBR ?


Road bike review. Our sister site.


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

hi nino, do you think you could post some dimensions, like length, height, width? 
i'd love to do some FEA and compare with the Extralites for overall stiffness.


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

ginsu2k said:


> i'd love to do some FEA and compare with the Extralites for overall stiffness.


awesome, id like to hear the results. to use FEA, you might also want to know material type, temper, and the exact radii of all machine marks involved.

Just to be accurate....


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

Axis II said:


> Road bike review. Our sister site.


Cheers big ears.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Ty said:


> what is RBR ?


MTBR's sister site, RoadBikeReview.com


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

*then don't read it*



chequamagon said:


> use the forums to advertise much? this sh!t is really startin to p!ss me off.


toolbox. he is showing stuff with weights that he got in, big deal. he doesn't list it like
a classified ad.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

chequamagon said:


> awesome, id like to hear the results. to use FEA, you might also want to know material type, temper, and the exact radii of all machine marks involved.
> 
> Just to be accurate....


MadCow of Fairwheel bikes will be doing a direct head to head review of these over on the WW MTB forum. MadCow knows his stuff and IMO you can trust him to be honest in his review. On a side note I'm sure Fairwheel will also be selling lots of these brake sets IF they measure up. No, I have no association with Fairwheel bikes.


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## elephant (Mar 21, 2006)

$0.02:

I think it is fine for Nino or anyone else with new product to post pictures and weights. If the board has questions then these members, who also sell product, should be able to answer as well. I think the reason "selling" goes on in the SSW board is I have never seen a mod here. I think we are left alone because not many people are selling this stuff and the sponsors are not really getting our business anyway. We are looking for obscure parts or making them ourselves. In the 29er market the board and the sponsors are making money.

In another board I was shown parts for sale by a mod and when I PMed him to say it was inappropriate and his comments were a shallow attempt at a sale of used parts I was ripped in the thread and I was reprimanded by the admin (I was pretty harsh but a mod selling used parts seems to go beyond a simple ad). There seem to be no consistent rules.

I say we should be happy we can share info with a minimum of interference. It will come to an end someday. Just scroll past the posts that bother you.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

elephant I'm w you.
I'm happy that ther's someone showing up or selling or advertising.. the new stuff at the boards. really.  This way I know we can get the best info about weights and specs faster, honest reviews about the parts (I think) sometimes a bit exagerated, and a good price tag. good

OK Keep talking about the brakes


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Nice precise tuning in the brake pads nino. Just a pair of pads weights more than both brake levers.


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## Dream Bikes (Oct 1, 2005)

Yes, Extralite pads are lighter... - 14 g (for a wheel), - 28 g (for a bike) !!!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*correct...*



Dream Bikes said:


> Yes, Extralite pads are lighter... - 14 g (for a wheel), - 28 g (for a bike) !!!


correct - Extralite has very light MTB pads BUT getting these might be a costly thing and might take a while as does getting Extralite stuff anyway. but those are the lightest MTB pads and attention to detail is unmatched.

but as i showed above some elbowgrease can do the same with any given 0815 pads.

anyway - it just shows that the extralite brakearms are "heavier". so with all the right materials installed the KCNC could be way lighter.

i will install the front brake today so i have a direct comparison to the Extralites i usually use.

shown below:
-Extralite padcarriers
-Extralite padcarrier bolts (standard - titanium)
-Nino's shortened aluminium padcarrier boltsto fit the Ultrabrakes


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

*Schematics*

of the brakes:


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

chequamagon said:


> awesome, id like to hear the results. to use FEA, you might also want to know material type, temper, and the exact radii of all machine marks involved.
> 
> Just to be accurate....


I think we scared people off with the measurements, but I decided to do the FEA anyway, using the following specs:
- 100mm for length, 20mm for width, and 18mm for height. 
- pad is located 25mm from pivot
- Most radii are 2.5mm. 
- I used 700lbs for pad/rim load, and 175 for cable load, and 'clamped' the pivot.

Material on both arms is CatiaV5 'Aluminum' with the following material properties:
- density: 0.098lb/in^3
- yield strength: 9.5e+007 N_m^2 (Pascals), or 95MPa

Some conclusions not in the FEA diagrams:
- KCNC design is stiffer (0.0342in vs 0.0558 for Extralite)
- KCNC design is lighter (26g vs 42g for Extralite)

Look carefully at both images, as the scales are very different, also look at where
the peak stress occur (on the KCNC it's at the bolt shaft for the pad). I will let you draw
your own conclusions.

Hopefully you can now choose a bit more wisely. 

*Edit* updated with pad on other side, didn't change things too much, but reduced deflection a little bit.


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

*Another Tuning Opportunity*

See below prototype pic posted at Starbike by KCNC UK distributor. KCNC chose not to use this design, but the end user could probably remove the gold-anodized linkage and fit the 90-degree noodle directly to the arm.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Drilled pad holders... Ugly but cool... It seems odd that the pads aren't well adjusted.. They seem to be facing up... Or isthe arm brake design? mmm...


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Batas said:


> Drilled pad holders... Ugly but cool... It seems odd that the pads aren't well adjusted.. They seem to be facing up... Or isthe arm brake design? mmm...


They don't have to be ugly with some attention to detail.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*lighter...*

correct - the cableholder isn't even needed on the KCNC.

using Alligator I-Link cables or Nokon you can just attach the cable to the brakearms or you could use a regular leadpipe (although that's heavier than the cableholder).

the cableholder weighs 2,8g

then i discovered that the fron cantibolts have about twice the lnght of the rear ones. too long. so minor savings with shorter bolts can be achieved as well

KCNC brakes without cableholder: 99,5g....x2 = 199g (set f+r)
KCNC brakes without cableholder and 2 aluminium nuts: 195,0g....x2 = 190g (set f+r)


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*and the cantibolts...*

as mentioned above front and rear have different lenghtsö.

also worth to be mentioned that these brakes come with very short aluminium cantistuds. there's different sets with all kinds of threads in the set. so in a set you also get these aluminium canti-studs. bought individually (if you can find them) these are also quite costly. anyway - more savings with these studs as well


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## scapin (Oct 22, 2005)

ginsu2k said:


> I think we scared people off with the measurements, but I decided to do the FEA anyway, using the following specs:
> - 100mm for length, 20mm for width, and 18mm for height.
> - pad is located 25mm from pivot
> - Most radii are 2.5mm.
> ...


What kind of measurement you make if the Extralite's pad is on the other side of the arm?!?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*1st test...*

ok - juast after riding my bike this afternoon with the regular Extralite Ultrabrakes i now installed the KCNC brakearms so far on the front only.

brakearms: KCNC
pads: Swissstop green (i took them out of my Ultrabrakes to be able to compare 1:1)
levers: Extralite Ultralevers (same reason. i want to be able to compare the brakes alone)

brakepower and feel are on par with the Ultrabrakes! at least in front of the house there is no noticeable difference at all. i will mount the rear as well and go for a real ride but from what i can tell they perform great!

2 things i noticed:

-there is no fine adjustement for the return spring. you adjust the tension with the cantibolts. put the arms on the bike, position them, thighten...ready. it was real easy.

-there is little room between tire and cable. with meaty tires it could get a thight call...

so far 2 thumbs up. i will definitely mount the rear as well. now i hope the levers do as good a job as well and i will have a new brakesystem on my bike


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

*Ouch!!!! Very expensive.... *

All,

I found these on eBay - here http://cgi.ebay.com/KCNC-VB1-V-Brak...3QQihZ010QQcategoryZ58082QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

WOW - seriously expensive


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

scapin said:


> What kind of measurement you make if the Extralite's pad is on the other side of the arm?!?


Woops. Will do again. Sorry, but I am doing this for fun, so I do make mistakes, but I correct them too.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*whoa - insane price!*



tatankainlondon said:


> All,
> 
> I found these on eBay - here http://cgi.ebay.com/KCNC-VB1-V-Brak...3QQihZ010QQcategoryZ58082QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> 
> WOW - seriously expensive


wow - that guy tries to make HUGE money
maybe he can sell them as so far only about 70 sets are beeing made and delivered.

official price for the KCNC V-Brake set ( pair of levers, brakes front and rear, aluminium canti studs front and rear): 330 euro / 448 US$

compare that to the prices for the Extralite Ultrabrake setup (prices as per Extralite website without tax):
Ultralevers: 153 Euro
Ultrabrakes: 270 Euro
Extrabolt 18 (aluminium cantistuds front fork): 17 euro
Extrabolt ? (aluminium cantistuds for the rear): not available
total: 440 Euro / 594 US$


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## wiiija (Jun 23, 2005)

Seriously considering going back to V's now I've seen these, very VERY impressive weight and they look superb in my opinion.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

I'm more interested in the levers at this point. The brakes themselves offer little to no weight savings over Extralight with some tuning and EL offers a sealed bearing pivot while the KCNC basically uses the Mrazek design of a simple brake boss pivot. This works ok if you don't mind tearing down periodically to relube the pivot with good grease. Not something I ever worry about with the EL brake.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Axis II said:


> I'm more interested in the levers at this point. The brakes themselves offer little to no weight savings over Extralight with some tuning and EL offers a sealed bearing pivot while the KCNC basically uses the Mrazek design of a simple brake boss pivot. This works ok if you don't mind tearing down periodically to relube the pivot with good grease. Not something I ever worry about with the EL brake.


well - for 100 years or something like that simple bushings did a great job on bicycle brakes. at least i can't remember that i ever had any trouble caused by simple bushings on my brakes.

on the other hand if you ever have water or dirt entering a ball bearing (like found on Avid Ultimates or Ultrabrakes) you are faced with serious problems. i just controlled the smoothness of my Ultrabrakes bearings and have to say that at least 1 arm starts running a little rougher. no issue at all for the moment but i also never use a pressure washer on my bike. if you do yoou can rest assured water gets in there in no time which will ruin those tiny bearings.

the KCNC might not be worlds lighter than the Extralite BUT they are lighter with little/minor tuning and best of all they are much cheaper as well.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

*Curious...........*



nino said:


> well - for 100 years or something like that simple bushings did a great job on bicycle brakes. at least i can't remember that i ever had any trouble caused by simple bushings on my brakes.
> 
> on the other hand if you ever have water or dirt entering a ball bearing (like found on Avid Ultimates or Ultrabrakes) you are faced with serious problems. i just controlled the smoothness of my Ultrabrakes bearings and have to say that at least 1 arm starts running a little rougher. no issue at all for the moment but i also never use a pressure washer on my bike. if you do yoou can rest assured water gets in there in no time which will ruin those tiny bearings.
> 
> the KCNC might not be worlds lighter than the Extralite BUT they are lighter with little/minor tuning and best of all they are much cheaper as well.


What kind of seal have they put on the KCNC brake to keep contaminants out of that bushing/boss interface?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Generally is the bushing type of tighter tolerance so in the MTB world you get water/grease and maybe fine grit in the bushing surfaces but on the bearings it´s worser when lubing is crucial of any roller bearing part, no lube = ruined bearings.

I´m not defending any system but a little common sense does it all.
Bearings requires more maintenance because of many moving parts who absolutely needs lube.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*take a closer look...*



Axis II said:


> What kind of seal have they put on the KCNC brake to keep contaminants out of that bushing/boss interface?


if you take a closer look you'll see that water and dirt will have a hard time getting in there. there is a shim that covers all the front area. from the rear the brakes are pretty well protected anyway.

you have NO seals on 99% of all V-brakes anyway. from what i remember it's the XTR V's that have seals and also some kind of bearings....and it's these bearings that cause problems after all!! did these missing seals cause any troubles?? it's the cables that have most of the drag rather than the bushings. i think we all agree on this, right?


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

I ordered mine today from my special friend and they only cost me $450 USD shipped. So I can not wait to get them for my Pedal Force MT build up. I did buy the Extralite Ultralevers and Vuelta's from Nino but I will not put them on my Pedal Force MT SS build up and put the KCNC brakes and levers on my Pedal Force MT XC build up. I think the KCNC package should be here late next week. 

I can not wait to get them built up on my new frames.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

bdc88 said:


> I ordered mine today from my special friend and they only cost me $450 USD shipped. So I can not wait to get them for my Pedal Force MT build up. I did buy the Extralite Ultralevers and Vuelta's from Nino but I will not put them on my Pedal Force MT SS build up and put the KCNC brakes and levers on my Pedal Force MT XC build up. I think the KCNC package should be here late next week.
> 
> I can not wait to get them built up on my new frames.


450 USD? wow... you could get the Hope Minis for that price, and there is a lot more brake in a disc brake setup than in V brakes. The profit margin for KCNC on those brakes must be huge


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

disc brakes are great if you have wheels for them and a set up for them but since I am going with V-Brakes and have lightweight v-brake wheels, why not have the best out there now. V-brakes work fine for the riding and racing that I do so I am not too worried about it.

I most likely could have got them a bit cheaper if I was patient enough to go hunting around for them but the person that I bought them from has always been very good with delivery and service so yes I problaby paid a bit more than I had to but I also paid a lot less than I have seen them advertised for on Ebay already. 

I should have them next week and will try to do a posting with some weights if I get time.


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

*First Review!*

Got mine today!

First impressions:

Design is VERY thoughtful. KCNC left no stone unturned to simplify and reduce weight. I thought I might keep the levers and sell the brakes, but I am actually more impressed with the brakes! The brake design has all the elements I was considering for my homebuilt set, plus some gratuitous CNC machining that I couldn't do

The machining of brakes and levers is not quite up to Paul's standards: Surface finish is a little rough, toolmarks are present, and there are several minor undercuts. My bike is no garage queen, so I don't mind the tool marks, but the undercuts in high-stress areas bother me a bit.

First, the brakes:
The return springs are the same simple design as my 10-year-old Avids - simple and bulletproof. You can twist the bushing/base with a cone wrench, or if you're in the field you can nudge them with a tire lever or stick (seriously!). No stupid little screws to strip, and the flat base on the bushing effectively seals the pivot.

Brake pads are nice cartridge type. Hardware is nice, but as everyone posted, they could be lighter.

The gold cable holder thing is utterly worthless. The included 90* noodle or a standard stepped cable ferrule fits perfectly in the arm without the gold thing. The gold link does not swivel like most V-brakes. It is rigidly fixed by a very tiny screw that is certain to loosen and potentially damage your $$$ brakes. The part just doesn't fit with the KISS design philosopy of the system, so I asked the KCNC UK distributor why it was included. He alluded to a legal/commercial issue. After seeing the superfluous part and how the arm was machined to work better without it, I'm certain that it was NOT added for its technical merit. I understand they need to keep the lawyers happy, but I'm pleased they did the extra machining to allow the customer to dump the gold thing in the scrap heap where it belongs.:thumbsup:

Aluminum canti studs are probably the best-machined parts in the kit. A total of 8 studs are included, 4x M8 and 4x M10. VERY nice touch!

The levers:

YES, the clamp is secured by a standard KCNC chainring bolt. I love this idea, because chainring bolts are not only light, they're also much cheaper than comparable fasteners due to mass production. If you torque the chainring bolt to the recommended 3N-m, the clamp is VERY secure. Remember, chainring bolts have finer threads than the M5-M6 bolts normally used for clamps, so a little torque goes a LONG way: Don't crush your carbon bar! By design, the pinch bolt has NO effect on lever play.

The lever is about 5.1mm thick at the pivot point. The slot that it rides in is about 6mm, so there is some 0.9mm vertical play. If this bothers you, you could use standard chainring shim washers to tighten the fit. Again, REALLY clever design.:thumbsup:

There is no reach adjustment, but I don't think that's a problem because the levers are TINY! They're barely 2-finger levers and I'm not a big guy (6ft/1.8m, 164lb/74kg). I took a photo next to my relatively small SRAM lever to demonstrate. I wear size large gloves and usually adjust my levers for minimum reach. I think the KCNC levers are just barely usable for me. If you can palm a basketball, these are not for you!

Levers pull only 25mm cable before they hit a bare handlebar. If you have fat grips, they will pull even less. This is probably OK with KCNC's short 90mm arms, but may be tight with Vuelta Mags or other long arms.

The barrel adjusters are light but lame. The thread fit is loose and there is no locknut, so they're not likely to stay put. An M5 nut on each adjuster lever will solve the problem.

That's all for now. No time to install or ride until Thursday...


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

My impression is that the levers are so small. They’re probably made only for the little Asian bike riders. I'm not a big guy but.. lol
The brake arms are also a bit short - 90mm? hmm with people using 2.3" tires its too much close and dangerous.
Its a minimalist design maybe to fight extralite? They could do better.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> My impression is that the levers are so small. They're probably made only for the little Asian bike riders. I'm not a big guy but.. lol
> The brake arms are also a bit short - 90mm? hmm with people using 2.3" tires its too much close and dangerous.
> Its a minimalist design maybe to fight extralite? They could do better.


Yes, I'll wait until the hype settles and we can see what we really have here.


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> My impression is that the levers are so small. They're probably made only for the little Asian bike riders. I'm not a big guy but.. lol
> The brake arms are also a bit short - 90mm? hmm with people using 2.3" tires its too much close and dangerous.
> Its a minimalist design maybe to fight extralite? They could do better.


Little asian bike riders... how catchy. I honestly doubt that someone using 2.3" tires is not using discs if they can afford these brakes. Someone willing to pay for these brakes is most likely a WW and won't have tire clearance issues. I'd love to try the brakes myself, they look super sweet, but the price is just too steep for me. I guess you're paying for a lot of machining and r+d as well as advertising and salaries. I could believe the profit margin is not too huge all things considered.


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## Cabdoctor (Jun 22, 2006)

I use disc, but I race in dry California. So I'm wondering how these levers would pair up with like say some BB7s. I don't really need a sealed up hydro setup but I would like something weight wise to match up with my "little [non]Asian bike riders" body. And thank you EuroMack for the pictures and review


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

It looks like you're only getting a 2:1 leverage ratio on those KCNC levers, add that to the 90mm/25mm leverage on the brake arm, you're only getting 100lbs*3.6 = 360lbs of force per pad. 

They must've changed the force to reduce loads going through those things, so I think the Extralite is a bit stronger and has more leverage, I know they are 100mm length.


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

Ginsu and others, don't waste your time analyzing the brakes yet. I'll mark up the installation drawing with some dimensions and post them later. No point in guessing. My buddy who writes FEA software may take a look at them, as he's looking for simple, interesting training demonstrations for a new optimization routine.

Regarding small levers: Yes, they are smaller than what I'm used to, but I think they are ridable for most people. I've never seen Extralites or Kookas in person, but they look to be similar in size.

Regarding short arms:
They actually are about 92mm, as claimed. Running with bare wire instead of cable holder above tire is better and increases mud clearance. Clearance won't be a problem for my 2.1 Specialized tires. As posted above, not many people are going to combine $500 WW V-brakes with 1kg tires.

Remember, there is NO free lunch. To make ridiculously light brakes, KCNC had to make some tough decisions. From what I see, they chose light weight XC racing performance every time, with NO expense spared.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

Great reviews *Nino* and *EuroMack*. Thanks.


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## ferny (Sep 18, 2005)

Nino with spinner, xmax slr and alligator housing...increible!  

Nino,...can you submite a pic of your bike? In light-bikes.com...old pic :thumbsup: 

Regards.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Axis II said:


> Yes, I'll wait until the hype settles and we can see what we really have here.


Yes looks like everybody is doped with the hype of a new product! :thumbsup: 
Let the time pass to see how the brakes handle. Anyway I prefer the extralites.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> Yes looks like everybody is doped with the hype of a new product! :thumbsup:
> Let the time pass to see how the brakes handle. Anyway I prefer the extralites.


I'm in the same boat, Extralite.


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

Nino, when you get these mounted up, can you put a dial indicator on the front section of that brake lever for us so we can see how much it flexes?

They went to so much trouble to triangulate everything else, but then forgot about the rather large bending forces on that part when you squeeze the lever!

As for this whole 'selling stuff in the forums' deal. What would everyone prefer?

1) No bike company insiders or owners of bike companies telling you about any new stuff they have?
2) Only allowing Shills or Affiliated people pretending they have no affiliation and telling you how wonderful their new parts are?
3) Only allowing those companies big enough to afford advertising to buy it, and that being the only method allowed to show you new stuff?

Think about that the next time you get on your pro establishment soapbox.

Not interested in hearing about new and interesting stuff from the little guys? Go buy a Trek and browse some other thread, eh?


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

Sorry, double post.


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

Thylacine,

I plan to borrow a dial indicator to play with the brakes this weekend, so I could also check the levers. What kind of loading (force and location) were you thinking of?

They are stiffer than they look, but then again I rode plastic levers for years 

I think posting deflections is a bit unfair to KCNC because some will immediately reply "I hung a car off my Extralites and they NEVER flexed" or something similary ridiculous. If someone wants to loan me an Extralite, I'll gladly test it on same bench with KCNC.

Heck, if someone wants to sacrifice an Extralite brake arm, I'll fatigue test it to failure. In my humble opinion, THAT is what people should really be thinking about when comparing these skeleton brake arms...


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

Sorry, double post AGAIN! I'm only pressing the button once, I swear!


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

I was kinda kidding, but it looks to me like the feel would be very spongy because the front portion of the lever (The bit attached to the bars) may flex a lot when the lever is squeezed.

I could be wrong, but there's so much nice triangulation in the actual v-brakes to counter bending and totally none in the lever body.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

*Strength?*

I wonder how are the levers against falls... This weekend I had a fall witch bent my right xt brake lever up by 30º... I managed to bent it back to its normal place...

I wonder If I could do the same thing with Ultralevers or Kcnc levers...


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Batas said:


> I wonder how are the levers against falls... This weekend I had a fall witch bent my right xt brake lever up by 30º... I managed to bent it back to its normal place...
> 
> I wonder If I could do the same thing with Ultralevers or Kcnc levers...


hmm that's hard Alu they'd brake apart in the place!


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

sergio_pt said:


> hmm that's hard Alu they'd brake apart in the place!


So, Shimano brake levers are made of "soft" aluminum?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*you should know...*



Batas said:


> I wonder how are the levers against falls... This weekend I had a fall witch bent my right xt brake lever up by 30º... I managed to bent it back to its normal place...
> 
> I wonder If I could do the same thing with Ultralevers or Kcnc levers...


you should know that levers should be thightened just as much that they don't rotate freely but CAN rotate in case of a crash. this usually avoids any damage to levers.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> you should know that levers should be thightened just as much that they don't rotate freely but CAN rotate in case of a crash. this usually avoids any damage to levers.


 Yes, I know, but they didn't rotate also during the crash... Maybe they were in a weird angle... There were plenty of rocks...


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Nino is correct. Just tighten those levers enough so that they don't move when you use them yet they rotate to absorb the impact of a strike to the top tube or such. The Extralite levers I use are forever loosening at this weak tension unless I apply a dab of blue thread locker to the threads then it's all good.


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

Just picked them up at the post office and they are nice. The levers are shorter than my Extralite but they are very very light.

Extralite levers 32g ea

KCNC levers 23g ea

Now all I need is my frames to arrive and get everthing built up.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

feed us more information ! 



bdc88 said:


> Just picked them up at the post office and they are nice. The levers are shorter than my Extralite but they are very very light.
> 
> Extralite levers 32g ea
> 
> ...


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

I will try to get to the XC build in the next few days since I now have my two Pedal Force MT carbon frames. I just could not wait to build one up tonight so I started with the SS build up. As it sits right now it is 14.75 lbs without the cables but everything else is on including a bottle cage. Oh I have to sort out what grips I am going to use. I do not think that the Aztec Powerlines will add much weight so the first goal is complete with the SS being under 15 lbs. This is also with my crappy SS crank conversion. I think that I am going to go with a carbon spiderless chainring from Fibre-Lyte.

Anyways, the Extralite brake levers were very easy to install and I really like the design and feel. Well feel from the point of just using them with no brake cables yet. I am going to match them up with the Vuelta Mags that I tuned to 232g for the set. Not bad but heavy compared to the KCNC brakes that I now have. :thumbsup:


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

Got my KCNC brake set today !!! The first in the UK


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

show us some pics then Ty


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Did you get them from Nino? I heard rumors that Eclipse/Nino has been removed from KCNC distribution?


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

I heard the same thing from a very reliable source. :nono: So maybe no more deals from Nino on KCNC.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

bdc88 said:


> I heard the same thing from a very reliable source. :nono: So maybe no more deals from Nino on KCNC.


not true - this is not all done yet.


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

"See below prototype pic posted at Starbike by KCNC UK distributor. KCNC chose not to use this design, but the end user could probably remove the gold-anodized linkage and fit the 90-degree noodle directly to the arm."


Euromack.......a question about your statement above. i just got my brakeset today!! I noticed that the set comes with 2 different size "noodles"..........one is shorter than the other, which noodle goes on the front and which on the rear? So i can get away without using the gold linkage "thing"? Or could I use Nokon cables and even avoid the "noodle" and install directly into the arm itself? Would this make getting the tire off difficult?


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

cyclemanpat said:


> "See below prototype pic posted at Starbike by KCNC UK distributor. KCNC chose not to use this design, but the end user could probably remove the gold-anodized linkage and fit the 90-degree noodle directly to the arm."
> 
> Euromack.......a question about your statement above. i just got my brakeset today!! I noticed that the set comes with 2 different size "noodles"..........one is shorter than the other, which noodle goes on the front and which on the rear? So i can get away without using the gold linkage "thing"? Or could I use Nokon cables and even avoid the "noodle" and install directly into the arm itself? Would this make getting the tire off difficult?












No noodle - no gold linkage - works fine !


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

well, have them all set-up and I cant get any return tension....when i squeeze the lever not much happens?


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

cyclemanpat said:


> well, have them all set-up and I cant get any return tension....when i squeeze the lever not much happens?


Set them up (tighten down the bolts) when the arms are a cm or two away from the rims.


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

its weird, the pads are so close, that i need to take all the spacers off but the super thin one for the pads to have 1 or so mm from the rim. Since the spacers provided aren't like the Avid hardware....where the spacers are curved, so you can allign the pads better from side to side...........what is happening to me is the pads are real crooked, I cant get them flesh or sit flat with the rim. i will try some of the Avid hardware tomorrow to see if this works.........I am using them on a SID race fork and AC rims


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

Ty.....do the actual brake arms have any side to side adjustment? You know how on Avids you turn that little screw on the side of each arm to move them in or out.........


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

well after much time I got them dialed and they work very well. I had to use my Avid pads and hardware(which sucks). i dont understand why i couldnt get the pads level with the rims with the kcnc hardware, no matter what I did, as i would tighten the bolt the pad would rotate forward and the pad would be very crooked....to the point that the front of the pad would be hitting the rim and the rear of the pad would be 2 or 3 mm away from the rim....no way to level the pad out, very weird. Didnt you have this problem at all?


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

seems like some high quality shiz for $500


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

actually ignore all of those posts of mine, i am an idiot and i figured it out. The KCNC hardware actually did have a curved spacer that I didn't notice. So I re-installed everything with all the kcnc stuff............works PERFECT!! Brakes have awesome power and feel crisp with my Extralite levers. I am using those, the kcnc levers are way short for my hands.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

*Early trials*

I'm not sure where to begin so I'll just begin.

I have a couple problems so to you guys that sell them I see you already on your way to try to discredit me. FYI I previously used Ultra Levers and Brakes.

No toe adjustment on the pads/post hardware  If there is any it is very small.

Next biggy is that the brake arms do not release fully due to the nature of the spring. Thus you have either release the air pressure in the tires or untighten the post bolts. I guess it's probably not an issue if you get a flat on the trail but I like to remove my front tire and put it and the bike inside my car. Taking the air out my tubeless tires would be sort of a pain.

I'm not sure how easy adjusting these springs are either they're definitely a little different than the simple little screws on the EL Brakes. It's a bit like tuning a Dia-Compe 990 brake or I think most other "U" style brakes but you don't need a wrench.

While the springs are super strong the levers feel wimpy and rickety. On my first ride the notch at the end of the lever lands right on my middle fingers which i like to use sometimes for braking. The EL levers gotta have a little extra leverage - they just feel much better.

I used the standard brake pad with ceramics rims and the power was definitely not there but I need to throw on the ceramic pads.

Sorry if I repeated some earlier points but thanks for any help - it's a long thread.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*toe adjustement...*



Slobberdoggy said:


> No toe adjustment on the pads/post hardware  If there is any it is very small.
> 
> I used the standard brake pad with ceramics rims and the power was definitely not there but I need to throw on the ceramic pads.


there is toe adjustement just as on every other v-brake. that's those rounded spacers you see on the pads...

definitley use them with ceramic pads if you run ceramic rims! best for a comparison would be to throw in the exact same pads you used on your previous brakes. that's what i did and the brakes are equal to the Extralite Ultrabrakes i tested them against.


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## Salt Cycles (Sep 25, 2004)

anyone have more reviews on these brakes - I am trying to decide between these and Extralites....

Thanks


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

cmanser said:


> anyone have more reviews on these brakes - I am trying to decide between these and Extralites....
> 
> Thanks


FWIW, I'd go Extralight. Been VERY happy with my two sets. Very small weight penalty to pay for Italian craftsmanship over Asian sweat shop construction. OK, let the flaming begin...........


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## bobbyOCR (Feb 11, 2007)

Flaming begins......now

Most good Asian companies have higher QC than European firms anyhow....Extralite though, is probably an exception.


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## pholcus (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi all! I'm new here, this is my very first post. I'm going to change my v-brakes, and I'm looking for epinions on both KCNC and EL. What I like of KCNC brakes, is the possibility to run the cable into the arm without the golden noodle, thus avoiding drag. Same, more or less, as Cane Creek Direct Curve, which I have and I love, despite their weight.

What I don't like of KCNC is that there is no little screw to adjust spring tension.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

pholcus said:


> Hi all! I'm new here, this is my very first post. I'm going to change my v-brakes, and I'm looking for epinions on both KCNC and EL. What I like of KCNC brakes, is the possibility to run the cable into the arm without the golden noodle, thus avoiding drag. Same, more or less, as Cane Creek Direct Curve, which I have and I love, despite their weight.
> 
> What I don't like of KCNC is that there is no little screw to adjust spring tension.


Most people running the Ultrabrakes will want to run with Nokon or Alligator housing anyway, which allows for the ellimination of the noodle.


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## pholcus (Nov 6, 2007)

Any pics? That would be really nice!


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

pholcus said:


> Any pics? That would be really nice!


Ask and you shall receive.............


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

cmanser said:


> anyone have more reviews on these brakes - I am trying to decide between these and Extralites....
> 
> Thanks


Yeah, I agree with Axis. The Extralites are much easier to setup and use. It's as simple as that. If you're willing to put up with a lot of little issues for the small weight benefit of the kcnc's then maybe wait for some more reviews but so far I like my Extralites much more.

EL's levers are longer and feel more solid.

EL brakes have much much better toe adjustment. (kcnc's have virtually none unless you change out their spacers)

EL brakes release your tire from the frame fork kcnc's don't without letting out air.

While the KCNC brakes work and are lighter than a EL setup they are beginning to appear to me as a paradox.


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## pholcus (Nov 6, 2007)

That's sweet, but with KCNC you can also avoid the linkage, fitting the cable end directly into the brake arm. I wonder which way is better, in term s of durability, drag and power, compared to my Cane Creek, most powerful brake I've ever tried.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*no noodle!!*



pholcus said:


> That's sweet, but with KCNC you can also avoid the linkage, fitting the cable end directly into the brake arm. I wonder which way is better, in term s of durability, drag and power, compared to my Cane Creek, most powerful brake I've ever tried.


the noodle ALWAYS is the place where the most drag comes from in a cablesystem! so avoiding the noodle makes for slicker action. with the KCNC you defnitely have the option to avoid the noodle so go for it! makes for a bigger radius and definitely slicker action.

only in the rear a noodle might be helpful. sometimes the rear cable could stick out too much so the noodle would make for a sharper bend and less possibility to get in touch with your heels. but Nokon or Alligator I-Link cables can be mounted in a small radius as well...


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

anyone have a pic of the rear KCNC brake installed without using the noodle? Installed directly to the brake arm. Anyone that installs these that way have any problems with cable hitting your foot?


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

cyclemanpat said:


> anyone have a pic of the rear KCNC brake installed without using the noodle? Installed directly to the brake arm. Anyone that installs these that way have any problems with cable hitting your foot?


I don't really have a problem with that or at least if I've every brushed it with my foot I don't really remember. You may need to shorten the housing.


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

thanks for the pics! U having any better luck with your brakes? I actually have a small issue now. It seems after about 5 or so miles into my ride, on my front brake.....the right-side brake arm looses its tension. Meaning, it pretty much stops moving and only the left-side moves....this in turn makes the right-side brake arm to start slightly rubbinbg the rim!! U ever had this problem? i pulled arm off and cleaned and lubed, maybe that will help


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

cyclemanpat said:


> thanks for the pics! U having any better luck with your brakes? I actually have a small issue now. It seems after about 5 or so miles into my ride, on my front brake.....the right-side brake arm looses its tension. Meaning, it pretty much stops moving and only the left-side moves....this in turn makes the right-side brake arm to start slightly rubbinbg the rim!! U ever had this problem? i pulled arm off and cleaned and lubed, maybe that will help


Hmm that's no good. 2 thoughts enter my mind. Be sure not to get any lube on the parts that hold the spring component fixed. I don't know where off hand that is (inside the brake arm?) because that part needs to have plent of grip. #2 - If you are following the torque settings fudge them and go a little tighter (at your own risk).

I've only ridden them on one long ride but with a lot of braking so still at the preliminary stages. So far I have mixed feelings but mainly negative about aspects of the design/setup and not (yet anyway) about how they have performed so far.


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

I just got a set of the levers from Nino.  

OMG these things are light. I literally was about to really upset when I opened the box, thinking it was empty. All I saw and felt was newspaper!!! Then I opened up the newspaper filler and found a pair of brake levers.:eekster: 

I'm still shocked as to how light they are compared to my Avid SD5s. :eekster: 

I have yet to install them though. I just have to take these to my friends and do a show and tell with them. LOL


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

MountainCycle89 said:


> I just got a set of the levers from Nino.
> 
> OMG these things are light. I literally was about to really upset when I opened the box, thinking it was empty. All I saw and felt was newspaper!!! Then I opened up the newspaper filler and found a pair of brake levers.:eekster:
> 
> ...


 With what brakes are they going to be paired with?


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

Batas said:


> With what brakes are they going to be paired with?


Avid BB7s. 

I used to have old yellow Magura rim brakes with Kooka levers. I wanted to lose as much weight as possible after upgrading to the heavier brake system.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

MountainCycle89 said:


> I just got a set of the levers from Nino.
> I literally was about to really upset when I opened the box, thinking it was empty. All I saw and felt was newspaper!!! Then I opened up the newspaper filler and found a pair of brake levers.:eekster:


I'm surprised they didn't come in a box with directions :skep:

Oh well probaberbly got a good price


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*directions????*



Slobberdoggy said:


> I'm surprised they didn't come in a box with directions :skep:
> 
> Oh well probaberbly got a good price


oh i forgot - in some countries people need warnings that tell them a coffe might be hot...

life must be hard without any directions and warnings (sorry - i couldn't resist)


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

nino said:


> oh i forgot - in some countries people need warnings that tell them a coffe might be hot...
> 
> life must be hard without any directions and warnings (sorry - i couldn't resist)


Nice one nino lol

I think there is a pdf online somewhere for the levers.

Nevertheless, the pinch bolt torque setting is a max 3N.m's

There are some tips and tricks in the instructions kcnc suggests but also a box helps resale if one wants to eventually sell them on ebay.
:skep: :skep: :skep:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Slobberdoggy said:


> Nice one nino lol
> 
> I think there is a pdf online somewhere for the levers.
> 
> ...


you don't need tips and tricks to install a pair of levers. these aren't flying to mars.

wow-i'm in good mood today


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

nino said:


> oh i forgot - in some countries people need warnings that tell them a coffe might be hot...


pretty pathetic over here sometimes, someone got rich over that too.:madman:


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## dmcgoy (Apr 16, 2006)

peabody said:


> pretty pathetic over here sometimes, someone got rich over that too.:madman:


Not really pathetic.....

http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

nino said:


> oh i forgot - in some countries people need warnings that tell them a coffe might be hot...


Guys you know that "hot coffee" and "warnings" has little to do with this and is not the point at all  But if you ordered a part with certain restrictions and did not know about them and the product broke wouldn't you be pissed - like 29 tooth rings, crushed bars, etc etc.

OTOH, I don't know if these are new or used levers or what the arrangement was exactly. As long as the buyer got what they wanted for the $$$ GREAT!

So far I'm purty happy with my KCNC levers too - maybe someday I will write a review after some more riding.


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## elephant (Mar 21, 2006)

I am thinking of getting these levers but the gold bolts are a no go for me. Can I replace them any chainring bolt?

Thanks.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

elephant said:


> I am thinking of getting these levers but the gold bolts are a no go for me. Can I replace them any chainring bolt?
> 
> Thanks.


yes - these are chainringbolts and can be changed.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

nino said:


> yes - these are chainringbolts and can be changed.


It seems the allen key however is a different mm (smaller) than standard chainring bolts but it would appear that will not make a difference in function. 5mm vs. 6mm? That's a guess without running out to my bike.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*instructions...*



Slobberdoggy said:


> It seems the allen key however is a different mm (smaller) than standard chainring bolts but it would appear that will not make a difference in function. 5mm vs. 6mm? That's a guess without running out to my bike.


if this is a problem then you indeed need some instructions. i think all of us have some allen keys on hand, not just 1 size.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

elephant said:


> I am thinking of getting these levers but the gold bolts are a no go for me. Can I replace them any chainring bolt?
> 
> Thanks.


Hey elephant,

FWIW, they have the same threads as chainring bolts so you should be able to change them out :thumbsup:

The stock gold bolts on the KCNC's have a 4mm allen key to them for some reason while standard chainring bolts are 5mm. That shouldn't matter but I thought it was dumb kcnc did it like that when the brake pad bolts are 5mm and the bolt for the posts holding the arms on is 5mm too


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Slobberdoggy said:


> Hey elephant,
> 
> FWIW, they have the same threads as chainring bolts so you should be able to change them out :thumbsup:
> 
> The stock gold bolts on the KCNC's have a 4mm allen key to them for some reason while standard chainring bolts are 5mm. That shouldn't matter but I thought it was dumb kcnc did it like that when the brake pad bolts are 5mm and the bolt for the posts holding the arms on is 5mm too


dumb indeed, especially the colour choice some taiwanese companies have. why would you spec golden bolts and red ones at the lever???
Italians once were famous for having all kinds of colours on their bikes and it seems the taiwanese now think colours are supercool...

no elephant, at the moment rather a Pavian ape (see my "back" below! result of a horrendous crash against a tree 2 days ago. that tree was staning in my way at over 20 miles per hour /30 kmh...luckily no serious injuries but it hurt BIG time and at first i thought i had a couple of broken bones. damn - it's a couple of years i had such a crash when still competing in the motocross championships...anyway - i need a new fork and new discbrake, both broken badly! i had to go to that trail once more to look for the missing computer and heartratemontior and the broken off carbon-lever of my Juicy Ultimate was still sticking in that tree! but it was not just the lever beeing ripped off but rather the whole aluminium thing....completely broken.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Disgusting man! Don't show us you butt!

SO! You are riding heavy disc brakes nowadays! mmm...


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Batas said:


> SO! You are riding heavy disc brakes nowadays! mmm...


nothing new. i am using my winterbike during the muddy season.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Are those the old or new American Classic wheels? Are those the ones that have the hub problem? 

How do you like them? Are you running with tubes? A friend of mine is thinking on buying those...


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Batas said:


> Are those the old or new American Classic wheels? Are those the ones that have the hub problem?
> 
> How do you like them? Are you running with tubes? A friend of mine is thinking on buying those...


these are 2006 AC wheels. going strong the second muddy season with lots of muddy riding and bike washes....no problems as mentioned a couple of times already. used with ECLIPSE tubelesskit.

i just bluetoothed the pic i took with my handy of the broken Avid Ultimate carbon lever sticking in that tree...


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## mafia6 (Sep 30, 2005)

nino said:


> these are 2006 AC wheels. going strong the second muddy season with lots of muddy riding and bike washes....no problems as mentioned a couple of times already. used with ECLIPSE tubelesskit.
> 
> i just bluetoothed the pic i took with my handy of the broken Avid Ultimate carbon lever sticking in that tree...


wow..thats kool.


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## felipedana (Aug 23, 2007)

did the front wheel survived the crash?  
the fork needs a replacement no doubts ...lol


wish you a good recovery mate.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*sideways...*



felipedana said:


> did the front wheel survived the crash?
> the fork needs a replacement no doubts ...lol
> 
> wish you a good recovery mate.


i hit a rut at speed which threw me to the right into the direction of that tree. but i was able to correct a bit and hit it sliding slightly sideways into it. so the front wheel passed the tree and the right side of the bike hit full on. that's why my right fork leg only, and the rigth side brake were destroyed completely, my right lower leg is also getting all colours as i got a blow on my leg like i have never got before. i then was thrown off and did a full summersault and landed on my back over 12 meters away. i walked that place the other day when i was looking for my missing computers and when standing there it looked scary. the crash happened in a section i ride many,many times for the last 15 years. i know that place in and out. that's why i was going that fast.

sure, i will have to install a new fork. i have some more on hand


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## Atmos (Oct 20, 2006)

Wish you a speedy recovery. :thumbsup:


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## Patriot222 (Dec 16, 2007)

Cabdoctor said:


> Are those "chain ring bolts" holding the lever together?


If they're not, they do look strikingly similar don't they..


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

Axis II....on the other page, the pic of your rear brake set-up.......i want to set my KCNC rear like that also, no noodle, but using the gold linkage thing. What did you use as a "ferrule" where the end of your Nokon's feed into the anchor on your brakes? With my kcnc's a regular ferrule just slides thru the gold anchor, what do i need to use in that spot so the cable stops, then crosses over to the bolt(above tire)? Am i making sense??


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## SevenSola (Aug 5, 2007)

*Tuned brake set*

I'm just about done tuning my KCNC v-brake's. This is what I've done soe far. For the brake lever's themselve's I've replaced the lever's with carbon fiber one's. Also I changed the chainring bolt to a different color and lighter one plus changed the lever stop bolt. Now for the brake arm's I've changed the cable clamp bolt to a lighter different color bolt. Changed the pad holder's to B-T-P carbon w/ Corima pad's. I still need to get different bolt's for the pad holder's and new lighter washer's and carbon fiber bolt's for the arm's themselve's. I still have the stock bolt's on. So I'll be able to shave a few more gram's off. Now I won't be running the noodle so that's not weighed in. The total weight so far for my KCNC brake set is 188g.


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

@ SevenSola

Can you please post pictures of the work you have done to your brake levers and the brakes themselves. 

Is it not the rule that if there are no pictures it did not happen.


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## SevenSola (Aug 5, 2007)

*no title*

I never heard that rule but I will post pic's as soon as I can.


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

Just joking for the most part. That being said, when you do work one the lightest set of V-brakes and make them even lighter, you just have to post pictures. 

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.


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## SevenSola (Aug 5, 2007)

*Posting pic's soon*

I'll be posting pic's off all the part's I currently have for my build when my wheel's are done. Dropped off the hub's a couple day's ago and my rim's should be in by now. So all I need is to get my spoke's ordered and then build them up. The pic's will be under the thread titled " 'Anela ", that's her name. To give you a little tease on the build the wheel's are mig45 and mag 150 28h(custom color), ztr355, tye-dye Ti spokes and aluminum nipple's. All pics will be taken on a scale too. Hope you guy's will enjoy the pic's when I post them.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*brakelevers...*



bdc88 said:


> @ SevenSola
> 
> Can you please post pictures of the work you have done to your brake levers and the brakes themselves.
> 
> Is it not the rule that if there are no pictures it did not happen.


i guess he has these same tuned brakelevers now:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3759040&postcount=1
stock KCNC-pads weigh 32g and it's hard to get them lighter without taking road-style pads. if you go with road pads the BTP are the lightest (but come with corima cork-material for carbonrims which doesn't offer any serious brakepoweron aluminium rims)


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## SevenSola (Aug 5, 2007)

*different pads for different wheel's*

Actually I have 2 set's of pad's for the 2 set's of wheel's I'm building for my bike. The first set is the stock KCNC pad's (just the pad's not the holder's) for my ztr355 rim's. Then I have a set of wheel's with carbon rim's which the Corima pad's are for.


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

to be sure, when installing these brakes, what needs to be lubed? Just the brake bosses that are attached to the bike or the area on the brakes which the spring(rod) is attached....area that the actual brake arm rotates on............ or both?


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Mr. Cycleman - I just lubed the posts I think. That's what the arms really rotate on when they are bolted on tight.

Are you losing spring tension on the arms?


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

I just tried to install them on my new build and they worked fine for about 10 minutes, then once again one of the arms lost their tension, not completely.....but enough to where that pad on that arm started rubbing the rim slightly. This also happened on my Scott. Would lubing somewhere on these help? anyone else have this problem? It really sucks because I set them up, they feel snapping and strong and work great, then 10 minutes later all that is lost.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

cyclemanpat said:


> I just tried to install them on my new build and they worked fine for about 10 minutes, then once again one of the arms lost their tension, not completely.....but enough to where that pad on that arm started rubbing the rim slightly. This also happened on my Scott. Would lubing somewhere on these help? anyone else have this problem? It really sucks because I set them up, they feel snapping and strong and work great, then 10 minutes later all that is lost.


How are your brakes going? Did you manage to solve the tension problem?


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

they work perfect now......2 things were happening. The actual brake post mounts(that screw into the fork), for some reason were coming a bit loose and that was making the brakes move inward, hence loosing tension. So I applied a stronger loc-tight and now they are now very secure. The other issue was the rod that attaches from the brake bolt area up to the hole on the brake arm was popping out of the hole after a hour or so........so i just zipped-tied them to the brake arms, works perfect.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

cyclemanpat said:


> ...so i just zipped-tied them to the brake arms, works perfect.


but are those WW certified zip ties???? :skep:


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

LOL.....of course they are. i know it sounds weird, but the zips work perfect. The rods just needed to be held in place. They would after time "wiggle" themselves out of the hole. Now the brakes ROCK


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

cyclemanpat said:


> LOL.....of course they are. i know it sounds weird, but the zips work perfect. The rods just needed to be held in place. They would after time "wiggle" themselves out of the hole. Now the brakes ROCK


Maybe you could ease a litle the spring tension to avoid the spring comming out?
Could you take a detailed picture?

I'm thinking about buying a pair to replace the shimano LX vbrakes BR-M580 (best power/weight/price ratio).
I think the KCNC have a very nice design a light weight! I'll save about 160g.


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## cyclemanpat (Jul 26, 2007)

a picture of what? Its just a zip tie at the top of the brake arm to hold the rod in. It has nothing to do with the spring tension. It seems to be a small design flaw. Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but really not a big deal.....the zip tie works perfect and the brakes have been perfect ever since. They are very strong brakes, feel as strong as disc brakes I believe. :thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*bend?*



cyclemanpat said:


> a picture of what? Its just a zip tie at the top of the brake arm to hold the rod in. It has nothing to do with the spring tension. It seems to be a small design flaw. Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but really not a big deal.....the zip tie works perfect and the brakes have been perfect ever since. They are very strong brakes, feel as strong as disc brakes I believe. :thumbsup:


why didn't you just bend that spoke ( the return spring is a spoke) a little bit more to prevent it from slipping out of that hole? to me it seems that would cure the problem.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

I'm just trying to imagine where the spoke is atached in the brake arm... o hole? ok


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## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

nino said:


> i guess he has these same tuned brakelevers now:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3759040&postcount=1
> stock KCNC-pads weigh 32g and it's hard to get them lighter without taking road-style pads. if you go with road pads the BTP are the lightest (but come with corima cork-material for carbonrims which doesn't offer any serious brakepoweron aluminium rims)


can someone PM with info on the carbon lever blades for the KCNC levers


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

scooter916: I got mine in ebay for 25 euro.


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## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> scooter916: I got mine in ebay for 25 euro.


 what do I search for? what are they called, I know the lever are KCNC VB-1's but what do they call teh lever blades?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*road pads...*

pictured below a KCNC V-Brake with road pads: 157g for the set front AND rear including all mounting hardware!!

unlike the BTP/corima pads these pads allow the installation of any standard road pad.

in the second picture i show the backside with that mentioned return-spring. it is no other than a bent titanium spoke that fits right into that hole. once installed it can't pop out. if it does it might be bent wrong and you need to bend the "spring" slightly back into shape.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

What brand are those brake pads? Are they appropriate for MTB?

ahh now I see the holy hole  yes do a litle bend and it will fit right


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## andrew9223 (Jun 12, 2009)

Want to revive this year old thread because I need to buy some brake pads for my cross bike and I'm not sure which inserts fit. Would the Swiss Stop RX Yellow brake pads be an exact fit for the kcnc pad holders?


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## jw8725 (Jun 12, 2009)

Anyone else tried out the carbon fibre brake levers?



nino said:


> i guess he has these same tuned brakelevers now:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3759040&postcount=1
> stock KCNC-pads weigh 32g and it's hard to get them lighter without taking road-style pads. if you go with road pads the BTP are the lightest (but come with corima cork-material for carbonrims which doesn't offer any serious brakepoweron aluminium rims)


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## tileman (Nov 1, 2006)

*just arrived*

mine arrived a few days ago, HOW COOL!!!!

Fitted fine, and yep a pain to remove the wheel but its not something I do everyday anyway..hehehe

Easy to adjust, braking may not be up to the Avids I had but hey, they weight less and that to some degree was the point, also they look heaps cool.

Question for any Giant XTC Carbon frame riders who have installed these brakes. Have you run into a problem with the length of the brake boss mounts being to long? Fitted mine and the bosses need some extra washers to the lock the brake so they work and none of the bosses included that I could see had the same thread......it was no problem to fix and I may grind off some of the boss in the future but thought I would ask......


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Good to see people still using rim brakes  

Tileman the brakes should come with their own short stubby posts that you replace your stock frames with. This cuts down on the weight further. Otherwise some plastic washers might be the lightest way to go if yours didn't come with the alternative posts


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Anybody out there using the KCNC V-brake with Conti RaceKing 2.2 tires?

Any clearance issues







​


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## tileman (Nov 1, 2006)

*clearance...*

I'm have them fitted with 2.1 monorails if that helps, I know there not light but they have a cool tread (I think ) and I have some maxiltes for other times.

In reference to the brake bosses I mentioned earlier, The standard XTC Carbon boss thread is quite long, it has to be to lock in the pin mount as normally used on standard V's, and different from anything included in the KCNC kit. I think I'll just grind the boss down in length for both the v mount and the thread at a latter date and the 2mm of washers I am currently using with disappear as will the pin mount....hehehe

Also I think something was mentioned earlier about the levers. I am 6'3" with big hands and I find the levers great, as I think nino said there needs to be a washer installed to take out some of the play in the lever but that will get done down the track, but for the price from taiwan, hey I'm happy.......


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## tileman (Nov 1, 2006)

*adjuster.......*

I got the newer versions of these brakes with the reach adjuster which is anodised red and looks or should I say looked cool...................one vibrated lose, and on a sandy ride is now gone.

So for anyone with these brakes check your adjuster.....my stupid I think but maybe for others worth checking, I figure I can get another ....... but hey it was red and looked cool

Also reading back through this thread for the info of others I got my brakes direct from taiwan on ebay and they landed in OZ for about 315US which is about half extralites price although I can't compare the brakes.

I will say though for me anyhow ability comes into it a lot, running the bike (XTC carb) with a rigid Saso fork the issue is as much as with braking as route finding.

I figure I don't want 2 bikes the same (2nd is a spec epic) and having a rigid hard tail is a brilliant second bike, flighty, quick steering and is heaps of fun, I think when I finally ride my epic again is going to feel like a tank (actually I reckon I know).

Anyway if I can provide any info for someone in regards to these send an email, maybe not the best blah blah blah but I for one am stoked.......!!!!


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## tileman (Nov 1, 2006)

*update*

Since I like the look of v brakes I'll continue this thread now that atleast Nino:smallviolin: has moved onto discs...... .

I have been using these on flat trails and have found them great, for v's atleast..........plus they look way cool!!!!! If someone is after a set of v brakes I for one would recommend these considering they are avaliable for a lot les than what I have seen listed on mtbr forums ( just over 300 to me).


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I know this thread is a little old but curious if anyone still makes the carbon levers that can be swapped out on the KCNC levers? Am considering picking up a set of levers right now. Am waiting to hear back if the seller accepts my offer of $60 on a set of TR levers but if not, then I will spend the money for the KCNC's and would then be looking for the carbon levers if they are available.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I have been using a single CF lever on my KCNC brakes for about a year now. I have experienced no issues whatsoever. It's on the rear brake. I just don't have the nerve (yet) to put the front one on.

I bought them from Mattias (I think, or was it Nino?), and he never used them himself. They actually look a bit cheesy, but the one I've been using works just fine.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Well, it looks like Nino was banned quite some time ago. I hear you on the fear of the lever failing. I am either looking at a set of TR or KCNC levers at this point. The cheapest I have found the kcnc levers is $130 and the TR's are about $100. For another $30 I might as well go w/ the lighter levers.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

I just purchased a set of KCNC brakes off of ebay. I'll install them soon and report my impressions. I'm skeptical, so it'll be an honest report, lol.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

Okay just did my 1st ride with the KCNC brakes on the bike. Its still cold and wintery here, so no real extreme braking was necessary. The install was easy. I also added Alligator I-links, and teflon coated cables while I was at it. I didn't think the weight difference would be noticeable, but it certainly was. It was like removing the brakes completely from my bike they're so light. Brake feel is a little spongy. I think its from flex in the levers and the v-brake arms. There's almost no material there! I also don't know if the pad material has anything to do with that. The action is smooth, and repeatable, and brake modualtion is predictable, so I'm happy with the purchase for now. I am using the Nino/SEC 9-speed gripshifters, so I though the levers may be too short, and cause accidental shifts while braking, but I didn't have an issue with that. I'll give them an overall thumbs up for amazing weight reduction, and good, (not great) predictable braking action.
This is by far the weight weeniest part on my bike.


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Ride a bit to get to know the brakes. I changed the pads on mine after a few rides. 

Also I'm using 2 zip-ties on the springs. They have a tendency to pop out and it's easy to loose them. 

Chris.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

I didn't see any issues with the springs. They sit pretty solid. Maybe you're using more spring tension than I am. What brake pads do you recommend to use with these brakes, if you replaced them? I put 1.5 hours on the bike, on my 1st ride with them.

btw, I am using thses brakes on Conti Race King 2.2's, and I did initially have trouble with tire clearance, when using the stock noodle and gold noodle holder. I eliminated those parts, and ran my cable housing right to the v-brake. It gave me the tire clearance I needed, and saved a few more grams, by removing some parts from the assembly. It didn't affect the quick release function of the brakes. I'll post pics later when I get the bike cleaned up.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

*pics!*

Okay here's a few pics to show the clearance of the KCNC brakes over the Conti RK 2.2's. Also shows how I set them up with the Alligator I-links and noodle-less. They've been working pretty good so far, but I haven't put them through any serious use at all yet. I adjusted the pads a little more, and got a little more firmness out of the brake feel, but there is a lot of flex in both the brake levers as well as the arms.

Rear brakes:









front brakes:









Levers:


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