# Is it silly to buy a DH bike?



## dagoof (Aug 4, 2018)

I'm no pro. I don't know if you could say that I'm a technically a downhill rider, but I certainly don't ride uphill very much. 

When I ride locally, I almost always arrange a shuttle to the top. When I go to Moab every spring, I always hit Porcupine Rim. Occasionally, I make a trip to the ski resort for lift service here in Idaho or nearby in Utah.

Is it silly for someone like me to buy a real DH bike?

I'm not about to enter the RedBull Rampage any time soon. At almost 40 years old, I don't hit giant jumps or drops, but I do love to cruise down the mountain at high speed, and I have zero interest in pedaling for the fun of it. 

I can afford to pick up a good used DH bike, but is is there any benefit? I know that I don't "need" that much bike, but will it be fun to ride a monster occasionally?

An enduro (or even trail) bike can probably handle what I'm going to throw at it, but those bikes are also made to pedal uphill, and I'm not really interested in that. Will will a real DH bike add any fun to my downhill shuttles?

Is it silly to buy a real DH bike when a smaller bike can handle my riding?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

dagoof said:


> I'm no pro. I don't know if you could say that I'm a technically a downhill rider, but I certainly don't ride uphill very much.
> 
> When I ride locally, I almost always arrange a shuttle to the top. When I go to Moab every spring, I always hit Porcupine Rim. Occasionally, I make a trip to the ski resort for lift service here in Idaho or nearby in Utah.
> 
> ...


No enduro bike will feel like a dedicated downhill bike. They have to compromise having to go back up the hill. If you're riding is purely downhill then get a DH bike and have fun with it!

I have a trail bike and a DH bike and whenever I can get a free lift up I'll take my DH bike. If you think the trail is too easy for a DH bike, it just means you should stay off the brakes even more.

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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

dagoof said:


> I'm no pro. I don't know if you could say that I'm a technically a downhill rider, but I certainly don't ride uphill very much.
> 
> When I ride locally, I almost always arrange a shuttle to the top. When I go to Moab every spring, I always hit Porcupine Rim. Occasionally, I make a trip to the ski resort for lift service here in Idaho or nearby in Utah.
> 
> ...


I have a trail bike and after picking up downhill a couple years ago at the age of 44, I got a DH bike. When friends come down to go to Angel Fire, I let my friends take the DH. I can ride all the same trails on the trail bike, but I definitely take it down a notch and am way more conservative on the rough and steep bits. If you can afford one, I would say get one. It just gives me a ton of confidence and is a blast to ride and has saved my butt a couple of times when I've gotten offline in the really rough stuff.

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## NRP (Sep 8, 2015)

It probably is silly, but do it anyway.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Depends on how often you are getting shuttled and how tough those runs are. If it is true DH turf, and you are hitting it often, then just maybe it would be worth getting a full DH rig. If it is not true DH turf, I know I'd have more fun on less bike.

For Porc Rim, IMO, no way would a DH rig be indicated. Even an Enduro bike would be overkill for most of that run.

Personally, I've got a DH rig and love it as my local DH is brutal and truly DH rig worthy. If it wasn't for that mountain, I'd still DH but I'd be running a full enduro bike. Seems to me much of the current DH/lift-assist scene is very doable on an enduro bike.

DH rigs are insane fun, but only on the right trails, and they are truly one trick ponies.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Do it. S/h rigs are cheap as. Who cares if you only use it now and then. Rigs get you going faster on tech track and improve your eyethometer for normal riding. What scared before now seems less scary because your used to hitting harder stuff on the rig.


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## dagoof (Aug 4, 2018)

plummet said:


> Do it. S/h rigs are cheap as. Who cares if you only use it now and then. Rigs get you going faster on tech track and improve your eyethometer for normal riding. What scared before now seems less scary because your used to hitting harder stuff on the rig.


Awesome. Thanks.

BTW,
What's eyethometer ?


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

To play the devil's advocate, I wouldn't own a genuine DH bike unless I lived very close to a resort. (I live 45 minutes away from a resort and I still don't own a true DH bike). I haven't been on a trail in years that I couldn't ride on an enduro style bike and be FASTER than I could have been on a full DH bike. In the U.S., that's certainly true, as the trend now is to make every trail as easy, smooth, and wheelchair-accessible as possible. #thumbsdown

If I lived in B.C., I might still consider a DH bike.

Anyway, unless your trails are really steep and technical, you're probably going to be slower on a DH sled than you'd be on a 32 pound 170mm bike. The lighter bikes will be much more enjoyable on flatter, non-technical sections as well. 

You may even, you know, learn to like climbing.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

I have a dedicated DH bike and use it almost every weekend in the summer. Then again, I live an hour away from two DH parks. 

I’m over 40, and really didn’t start riding dh until 2 years ago. With a bigger bike you can get more runs in and not feel as beat up. It’s more forgiving than my enduro bike but more fun at the parks. 

In a pinch I can ride my enduro bike. For my comfort, I get more out of the big bike and it’s worth it to me.

Silly? Maybe. Fun? Definitely.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm no pro and I have a Jedi.... bought it used. no need to spend over $2k when you can snag a good used one . parts can always be upgraded


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## Mckinley (Apr 22, 2017)

The only way your gonna know for sure is by trying the DH bike. If the price is reasonable, why not? If you like it, great, if not, sell it and recoup. I bought an older DH bike for park and shuttle, love it, ride it plenty in the summer. I ride my enduro bike everywhere else.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Ha we were talking about this yesterday...GET THE DH BIKE !!

Enduro is cool but taking out a dh bike on those same trails is so much fun....feels like you have way more control of the bike and the bike isn't bouncing off all the rocks and having the enduro bike jolting you

In addition, when you do make that bad error the DH bike will save you more times then the enduro...and for the guys saying I can ride my enduro on everything - BS !! if they got on their DH bike they would understand the more fun.....


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Ha we were talking about this yesterday...GET THE DH BIKE !!
> 
> Enduro is cool but taking out a dh bike on those same trails is so much fun....feels like you have way more control of the bike and the bike isn't bouncing off all the rocks and having the enduro bike jolting you
> 
> In addition, when you do make that bad error the DH bike will save you more times then the enduro...and for the guys saying I can ride my enduro on everything - BS !! if they got on their DH bike they would understand the more fun.....


What SMT says.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

cookieMonster said:


> To play the devil's advocate, I wouldn't own a genuine DH bike unless I lived very close to a resort. (I live 45 minutes away from a resort and I still don't own a true DH bike). I haven't been on a trail in years that I couldn't ride on an enduro style bike and be FASTER than I could have been on a full DH bike. In the U.S., that's certainly true, as the trend now is to make every trail as easy, smooth, and wheelchair-accessible as possible. #thumbsdown
> 
> If I lived in B.C., I might still consider a DH bike.
> 
> ...


This has been my experience as well. I demoed bikes in Angel Fire when I was there; I had a lot more fun on an Enduro class bike for the terrain I rode. If you're not getting more air under your tires than you are tall, you probably don't need a downhill bike for that terrain. It's quite remarkable how lazy a 160mm bike is pedaling uphill as it is, but the return is that they are quite capable on the rough stuff on the way down.

Maybe if I had the balls to rip down the huge jump lines at 25 mph, I'd feel differently.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

twodownzero said:


> This has been my experience as well. I demoed bikes in Angel Fire when I was there; I had a lot more fun on an Enduro class bike for the terrain I rode. If you're not getting more air under your tires than you are tall, you probably don't need a downhill bike for that terrain. It's quite remarkable how lazy a 160mm bike is pedaling uphill as it is, but the return is that they are quite capable on the rough stuff on the way down.
> 
> Maybe if I had the balls to rip down the huge jump lines at 25 mph, I'd feel differently.


While my DH bike does feel more stable at speed (I'll hit 40+on the fire road at Angel Fire) and I do appreciate it in sections like facemelter on Worldcup, it isn't the high speed jumps out bigger airs where I appreciate. Those almost all have transitioned landings that 140mm of suspension can handle fine. Where a DH bike shines is on the rough steep stuff. On my DH bike I'll go into rock gardens at full speed literally not touching the brakes. This makes the Rock gardens on Duke, mini boogie and upper chillin a blast. And when it gets steep I feel much more confident. That being said, riders like Chris Boyce can to down those trails way faster than me on all-mountainy trail bikes. But those people have serious skills and my bike makes up for some lack of them in me. And I don't really see a downside on the smoother trails. Do I need a DH in Boulder dash? Nope. Is it less fun, nope. I actually have more fun on my DH even on the smoother trails. I go faster and catch more air. And get less beat up by the braking bumps. So if you have the money for a DH bike I say get one. Is it a smart decision financially? Not really. I've done 300ish runs since I bought my DH bike. Which means I've paid about $4 a run for the bike. But man do I smile!

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## dagoof (Aug 4, 2018)

Well, it looks like I've got a Demo 8 headed my way after a weekend on Ebay. 

Thanks everyone. I'm excited for some "unnecessary" fun. The comments on this thread have been very helpful.


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## NRP (Sep 8, 2015)

Sweet! Keep us in the loop about your experience with it versus your normal rig.


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## dagoof (Aug 4, 2018)

It's a 2015 model Demo 8, which is before they moved to the prettier and more simplified rear end, but I don't see anything to indicate it makes a whole lot of difference. 

A large long frame with high bars, 200mm of travel on both ends, and a 63.5 degree rake should all produce the same smiles I'm guessing.


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## stiksandstones (Oct 7, 2004)

I own a santa cruz V10, dont ride it much, but when I do, im VERY GLAD I invested in it. Will always have a DH bike.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

If you have the terrain for it...do it. A DH bike rides like no other downhill. I've got a Kona Operator. Its 180mm (not quite full blown DH) front and rear. Lol...it rides like a couch compared to my other bikes.


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

A lot of old school thinking in the replies. Bikes have changed SO much in the last decade. Lines between bike types are not being blurred, they are being crossed wholesale. So you have more options to go DH but there are reasons why DH bikes are still made and sold in good numbers.

Given what you said I'd for sure buy a DH bike, but you have to be picky, do your research and if at all possible test it.

I'm the poster child for proving a DH bike does not have to give up anything to be a DH bike...I ride a dual crown 35lb antique uphill more than down and now with 40lbs of bikepacking gear thrown in. Am I an animal? no I'm 68yo, 150lbs soaking wet. With a bit of creative parts matching, I have a true swiss army knife bike that is tough as nails and can literally get me up or down anything my skills allow, It handles lift served action like Whistler and Snowshoe with the ease of a competition bike, climbs better than my 29lb Specialized AM bike did, pampers my body like only a 200mm platform can and yet copes with the tightest singletrack I can find on the east coast. It never breaks and always shocks the hell out of people seeing a geezer rock it...too much bike for the trail? sure but it not only gets the job done it does it with the confidence and stability an old man wants. I'm not into hitting targets with rocks punted by my sliding rear tire, I'm not going to see how many times I can show off popping off every bump on the trail
My whole point is a DH bike is worth owning if you have an interest in DH and it will give you pleasure in a way only a DH bike can... my advice, dont overthink buying one, save the thinking for getting the right one. 
2011 Canfield V2 ONE, WC Boxxer, Elka Stage 5, carbon everthing but rims.


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

I'm on probably my 5th or 6th DH bike now over the past 15 years or so, and I've had even more trail bikes over those same years. I live in Denver and have easy access to many lift assisted bike parks and I can say that DH'ing is my passion and trail riding is what I do when I can't DH. If you REALLY love DH then you should buy a DH bike for the occasions that you'd need it. Nothing matches a DH bike on true DH terrain, and mine has saved my ass more times than I can even count. Oh and BTW, I'm 49 years old.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

crossup said:


> I'm the poster child for proving a DH bike does not have to give up anything to be a DH bike


The One is a great bike, but with all due respect it isn't a true DH bike by modern standards when looking at head angle, and can't quite take the full punishment that a full on DH bike can.

I have a 2013 The One (run both with 180mm single crown, and 203mm dual crown), a '17 Balance (160 front/165 rear), and a '17 Jedi (203mm front/220mm rear).

The One fits nicely between my Balance and Jedi because the Balance pedals noticeably better (particularly on steep climbs), and the Jedi is more confidence inspiring on the downhills (particularly on very steep downs and bigger jumps).

Don't get me wrong, all three are very capable bikes, and I've ridden double black tech trails at Whistler and some other pretty good sized features elsewhere on all three bikes.

Still, if I'm going to push my limits, or hit a big feature for the first time, I'm going to grab my Jedi every time. For example, I'm just easing into the Pro Lines (i.e. Dwayne Johnson) on my Jedi, but not sure I would have attempted that on The One, and surely not on my Balance.

Now, put a 1.5 degree angleset on The One and a dual crown, you'll be at a 63.5 head angle (pretty standard for modern DH bike geometry) and you won't be giving up much compared to a true DH bike, but you'll be giving up a bit of the pedal-ability to get there.


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

I guess its all in the details:
First off I believed Chris when he told me at my 135lb weight(8 years ago) the ONE would take ANY thing I could give it, period. I did not ask him if a 200lb guy could break it, which is what I now weigh with 40lbs of bikepacked camping/hiking gear on me and the bike, but then again I don't huck it with that gear on it.
Second, I will admit it is NOT a DH RACE bike, Chris said of course thats what the Jedi is for and the ONEs suspension rate was too low to make it optimal for racing but you could get pretty close with the right spring.

Third, the ONE is a very versatile platform but if you want to do everything with it, especially running a dual crown, you HAVE to have an adjustable head set. I run a VP Varial so I can change it in 2 minutes trail side. I always carry an airpump(Boxxer WC) and spanner for the Ti shock spring(Elka) so I can trail adjust everything.

Forth, if you say it gives up pedal ability to a Balance, I'll accept that since I've not ridden the Balance. But I dont see how you can beat 100% efficiency, for me the trick was to drop the forks 50mm, before that it was merely amazingly good climbing. At 50 its like someone is pushing the bike uphill, in fact I've dropped to mostly running 40mm because at 50 I felt I was a little less slack than I like for most of my local DH fun and the climbing is so good it does not really matter if it was not at its absolute best.










twd953 said:


> The One is a great bike, but with all due respect it isn't a true DH bike by modern standards when looking at head angle, and can't quite take the full punishment that a full on DH bike can.
> 
> I have a 2013 The One (run both with 180mm single crown, and 203mm dual crown), a '17 Balance (160 front/165 rear), and a '17 Jedi (203mm front/220mm rear).
> 
> ...


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## pablo.b (Nov 16, 2017)

dagoof said:


> and I have zero interest in pedaling for the fun of it.


Say no mo´fam. BUY ONE. I had the same question 1 year ago.I bought a tues. 0 regrets. it just feels so much better.most of my friends that switched from dh to enduro are regretting it or en up pushing the bike up the hill anyway.


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## pablo.b (Nov 16, 2017)

sorry but this in an abomination.


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## dagoof (Aug 4, 2018)

Thanks everyone.

She's all mine. Now I've just got to wait for the snow to melt.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

cookieMonster said:


> To play the devil's advocate, I wouldn't own a genuine DH bike unless I lived very close to a resort. (I live 45 minutes away from a resort and I still don't own a true DH bike). I haven't been on a trail in years that I couldn't ride on an enduro style bike and be FASTER than I could have been on a full DH bike. In the U.S., that's certainly true, as the trend now is to make every trail as easy, smooth, and wheelchair-accessible as possible. #thumbsdown
> 
> If I lived in B.C., I might still consider a DH bike.
> 
> ...


Agreed.

I have 2011 kona Operator that has seen little use for a long time now. The Joe Smith video was the year I bought mine:






Great video. Great bike.

That said, I got into longer travel trail bikes after that. By the time I bought my Range in 2015, the days of the DH bike were pretty much over for me. I would bring both bikes to Golden and end up preferring my Range on 7:






The only real advantage I see of using a DH bike over a capable, slack "enduro" rig is that I don't like beating the **** out of my trail bikes. Obviously a triple crown DH bike is going to be able to handle the abuse of park or double black shuttle riding better than a lighter duty, single crown rig.

These days, I would never buy a DH bike. Maybe if I was into doing the whole "hot laps" thing at Whistler on a daily basis, but otherwise, I MUCH prefer the pedal-ability and flick-ability of a lighter enduro rig, regardless of how gnar **** gets.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

dagoof said:


> View attachment 1228790
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone.
> ...


NICE!!!!!! That is sexy AF.

Congratulations. That is going to rip.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

crossup said:


> I guess its all in the details:


Yep, and it sounds like you've got a pretty incredible setup going for versatility with your One.



crossup said:


> First off I believed Chris when he told me at my 135lb weight(8 years ago) the ONE would take ANY thing I could give it, period. I did not ask him if a 200lb guy could break it.


200+ lb riders can dish out abuse on bikes that 135 lb riders can hardly imagine. That said, the One is a pretty stout bike, but it isn't indestructible. I broke the lower link on my One, a failure that has been reported by others. That failure point was addressed with a stouter link design on later bikes (I don't have concerns about similar failure points on my Balance or Jedi).



crossup said:


> Second, I will admit it is NOT a DH RACE bike, Chris said of course thats what the Jedi is for and the ONEs suspension rate was too low to make it optimal for racing but you could get pretty close with the right spring.


I don't think the rear suspension is much of a limiter on the One at all. Set in the 200mm position with a Fox DHX2 coil is the plushest and most bottomless feeling suspension I've ever been on. It doesn't perform as well over the square edge hits like the Jedi does, but still, it's pretty dang amazing.



crossup said:


> Third, the ONE is a very versatile platform but if you want to do everything with it, especially running a dual crown, you HAVE to have an adjustable head set.


Would be curious to hear your thinking on this. I ran my One with a 180mm Fox 36 and a 200mm DVO Emerald. The 2013 One was designed around the 36, but if I recall correctly, Chris said the axle to crown between that Fox 36 and Fox 40 were identical (and not much different from the Emerald). I get the benefit of going a bit more slack on the HT angle, but wasn't sure you were implying steepening the HT angle with a dual crown to maintain pedalability.



crossup said:


> Forth, if you say it gives up pedal ability to a Balance, I'll accept that since I've not ridden the Balance. But I dont see how you can beat 100% efficiency


Several reasons why the Balance climbs much better. First, The One has a very low BB height, particularly at full sag on 200mm travel. That means lots more pedal strikes than on my Balance (both running 165mm cranks) or my Jedi. Not uncommon for my heels to drag in the dirt on steep downhills when in a heels down attack position. Second thing is slackening of seat tube angle as the bike sits back in it's travel on steep climbs (think 20+% grades). I've got a 36+" inseam, so my saddle is way up there (slacker effective ST angle) during pedaling, and when the bike sags back into the travel, that means my effective ST angle goes way too slack, which means weight shifts further back ,which leads to more sag etc. If you're 135 lbs, my guess is that you probably don't have super long legs, so probably not as much of an issue for you. Final thing, is that 200 mm of travel is a lot of sag to overcome if you're lofting the bike up/over large obstacles. On pure DH, you've usually got enough momentum on your side to overcome this, but when the terrain flattens out or on a technical climb, there are times when the fastest way through is up and over an obstacle that even 200 mm of travel can't mow over. In those situation, The One can be very sluggish if you're trying to put down a little power to the pedals then lunge up and over something at slower speeds. That last one is a disadvantage of any true DH bike with that much travel.

Anyway, I agree with you on most points, and the points where my experience differs is mostly splitting hairs.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

of course it's a silly idea. but that's why we all buy them...


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

The bike I ride most when i'm not on the gravel or road bike is a my dh bike. Large 2014 Kona Park Operator. With no carbon or stupid weight weenie parts, comes in at 35.19lbs with a gearing of 34ovalX11-42 and can get up most things. I believe with enough stubborness, you can climb up anything with proper gearing. There's no need to give up on big bikes just yet as these things can be built pretty light now...


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

Thanks everyone.

She's all mine. Now I've just got to wait for the snow to melt.[/QUOTE]

CONGRATS!!! Dude, you're going to love having a DH rig!!


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## pcrussell50 (Apr 10, 2018)

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I will. I have a DH bike and I love it. A lot. I love it because I also have a carbon enduro that I can use for pretty much everything else. But for when my wife is willing to shuttle me, the DHer is better for going down hill than my enduro, and it's more badass when I stare at it in the garage, and every now and then I use it to cruise to the mailbox or when I take my little girls to the playground. IOW, in a addition to riding down hill, the rest of my joy in owning it is frivolous fun. If you can afford one for frivolous fun, it's a hoot. 

As we speak, we are driving back from the jump park. In the back of our minivan is... Not my DHer, but my carbon enduro. Why? Because at jump/slopestyle parks, the riding is better if you can lock out the rear suspension and firm up the fork. There are no rock gardens or roots. Little is gained and much is lost in a smooth groomed jump park with a big plush suspension. But tomorrow when I ride out to the mailbox and bomb down a flight of stairs on the way back, I will take my DHer and smile.

So in short, as long as the rest of your cycling needs are met, if you still want a DHer and can afford a frivolous purchase, I think you will love it. I do, mine.

Does that help?

-Peter


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

I got a 2012 V10.4 (26er) last year and have ridden it only 2x here on the E. Coast. But I felt better knowing my trail bike has been preserved even though I could have taken that instead ('14 Process 153). I am trying to get used to the older geo like shorter reach and TT, which makes it feel like I am fighting to keep balanced in the middle and not hang off the back too much despite the long wheelbase due to the slack head angle. 

My latest bike is 2018 Kona Process 29er AL and I feel that it should be burly enough, but it definitely seems harder to jump the V10 than the Process.


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