# What's your routine?



## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

Hello all, I've just started riding regularly last year. It turns out cycling is a good hobby for me because I'm a sucker for customizing and tweaking things, and I had no idea there was such a wide range of options for bicycles!

I mainly do it for fun (riding), but if I can get in better shape doing it, awesome!

So my question is regarding eating before/after rides. Right now I basically just ride when I can, never planning on food before/after. What/how much do you eat before a ride? Is it like swimming where you should avoid a big meal before a long ride? 

I've read on these forums recomendations of eating before a ride, and eating protein 30 minutes after to help build muscle. How much Protein are we talking about 30 minutes after a ride? Are we talking chicken dinner, or are we talking a protein bar? (some people have said they drink a protein shake?)

Basically I'm wondering what you all do specifically on your typical routines? Examples of what you might eat before (how long before) and after (30 minutes?) your regular rides?

Thanks!!


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

As far as quantity and content it depends where you are and on what the goals are. A good general rule or routine to help support your riding and your recovery is eat a decent size meal around an hour or more before, and eat another within an hour after. 

Welcome to the site and to posting


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Immediately post ride consume carbohydrates. You can add protein in a 4:1 ratio carbs/pro. Repeat in about 20-30 minutes, and about an hour or so later you can have a big protein meal.

The amount varies with overall activity level. One rule of thumb for an active individual (as opposed to a weekend warrior) is 1.5 grams protein per kilogram of body weight. This is total DAILY consumption, not the post workout snack. The post workout snack should not be more than ~25% of total daily protein consumption. So you can see there is not a lot of protein needed immediately post workout. Without getting into a lot of cellular biochemistry the muscles need glucose before they can begin to use the amino acids to rebuild.

For the post workout snack almost any protein will work. The whey supplements work, but are not necessary IMHO. A PB&J sandwich on whole grain bread with a glass of chocolate milk is close to the ideal ratio and amount of carbs/protein. The fancy potions and powders work also, but the simple is cheaper. Whey is touted as better, but the difference is small. Whey is a structurally simpler protein, so it breaks down into the component peptides and amino acids faster, and thus is absorbed faster. This difference is minutes, though. Not hours. (Whey is the leftover waste from industrial cheese making. The cheese factories used to throw it out, or sell it as a cheap livestock feed supplement. Then someone realized they could make more money by peddling it at inflated prices to amateur athletes as magic stuff).

As far as overall eating for performance, individual variations abound. I find a carb breakfast works best for me, with dinner being the protein heavy meal. Others have the opposite. During the ride I snack lightly on whatever trail mix I throw together. I haven't had much luck with gels during the ride. They tend to bother my stomach and bowels. Try different things, and keep a diary of how you feel during the ride. You will soon learn what works for you.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback!


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

You're welcome. 
Dave is right about 4 to 1 ratio but that's not 100% for everyone so if you share where you're at with stats and training, what your struggles are, and what your goals are I'd be glad to help further with more detail.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

theMeat said:


> You're welcome.
> Dave is right about 4 to 1 ratio but that's not 100% for everyone so if you share where you're at with stats, what your struggles are, and what your goals are I'd be glad to help further with more detail.


yeah, some research suggests 3:1, others 5:1. The key take-away point is more carbs than protein initially. There does seem to be some ethnic/racial differences in nutritional needs, but solid research is lacking in this area. The differences between individuals is probably greater than any ethnic differences.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

I guess my goal is to just start taking advantage of the excercise of my new hobby/passion.

I'm 6'2" 270lbs - I've been the same size/weight since college (age 34 now). 

Right now I'm considering changing up how I eat (not necessarily how well/what I eat, besides maybe more protein "snacks" after rides etc).

I haven't eaten breakfast regularly since high school. I basically eat nothing before lunch, then dinner, then probably a snack or two in the evening. I've heard about how it's better to eat more often in smaller doses to keep your metabolism burning, and I've seen bean pole skinny people eating all throughout the day that makes me think it works  -also heard that not eating breakfast etc your body thinks its starving and stores fat, burns muscle etc.

Typically in the summer I try to ride each day after work and the weekends (mostly on a bike path right by my condo), my typical circuit is 9 miles, but I do the full lap sometimes depending on time/energy of 18miles. Last weekend I did some exploring off the bike path through the woods and ended up going 27 miles (and felt like I could have still done more). ...anyways right now I'm sort of limited to weekend riding as it's dark before I leave work. I've started getting some decent winter apparrell so I can keep riding as much as possible. Also, I've never really had any issues of over tiredness or bunking from rides. When I first started, then again the beginning of this last summer I had that "aches so good feeling" in my muscles the next day of my muscles waking up and strengthening. 

Anyways, back to eating: 
So I'm thinking of switching "to the norm" and having breakfast, maybe start packing small snacks to eat between meals (I guess protein snacks) at work. I'm just starting to google high protein foods and protein snacks to get ideas.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Seems like you've been doing some homework so that's good. It seems you have a pretty good grasp of the info too, even better.
Few things I'll throw out there. As far as "mini meals" or the keeping your body from fasting, and keeping protein always available for fitness gains, and curbing storage throu this....It works for many, and many need to dial in some. It can/ may take your body some time to realize that it doesn't need to store, or store as much, and you may and maybe should gain muscle from this so don't live by the scale short term. Once you got it going a month or so you can start to dial into where your weight and fitness goals are. 
I'd say eat breakfast, especially for an active lifestyle, and whether you do mini meals or not and you just don't like to eat breakfast, if that works for you go with it, and try doing some more cardio type exercise before that first lunch meal, and at least you'll do more cutting as opposed to storing.
Of coarse it's a matter of calories in and calories out, and for many timing and content is key while for others it's not. Same thing with cycling carbs, or intermittent fasting. Imo mini meals is less bad / more better than those, especially in terms of health, and more successful for more people, especially long term or toward fitness goals.
No matter what you decide one thing is true for everyone. Don't make huge changes and make them for at least 3-4 weeks so you can see how it feels, and what it gives and takes.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Long been realized frequent small meals is better healthwise than the standard 3 large meals. However, our entire societal norms, culture, and economic/political system forces you into the 3 meals pattern.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

dave54 said:


> Long been realized frequent small meals is better healthwise than the standard 3 large meals. However, our entire societal norms, culture, and economic/political system forces you into the 3 meals pattern.


Idk, I'm amazed how many people don't realize this. Furthermore think many people who start exercising start eating more often simply because they're more hungry, and don't have a clue that eating more often is 60% or more of that equation for feeling better and finding success.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Bulwyf, you didn't share anything about the size or content of your diet so ? But you have shared that you're 270lbs and your now once week exercise routine leaves you feeling fine during and after. With that I'd say that 1.5 grams protein per kilogram of weight taken daily isn't that important, nor is upping carbs. If you want to be anal about it and make sure you get the most muscle and performance benefit from your exercise then maybe slightly up your carbs a couple of days leading to your exercise, and up proteins for a couple after. I'm a firm believer that for most the best way to make changes that last you should make small doable changes every few weeks or month or so. Since we don't know your diet I'm only guessing but will mention for your consideration that you start to replace simple carbs with more complex ones at most or all times other than right after exercise, that you consider that adding meals will up your calories unless you adjust the size and/or content of your other meals, and that you eat breakfast and a good small slowly digesting meal which includes proteins before bed.


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## cbrock450 (Apr 18, 2008)

I make it easy for myself. No meat for breakfast, does not sit well in my stomach. Eggs and some fruit an hour or so before my ride. Slam at least one water bottle right before we hit the dirt. Chocolate milk after a ride and a beer and try to get food in my stomach within an hour of riding


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## Bizman (Oct 11, 2010)

I work most nights leaving for work at 8:30 pm, and get home at 3:30 am. This is when I eat more of your junk food type things, then go to bed at 4-5 am. I normally get up around 10:30 am do a stretching routine I have done for years, then my age of sit-ups and pushups (54). If I ride during the day either a 25 mile round trip commute to town or my 22 mile regular loop ride I don't eat before the ride, don't usually drink anything or even take water with me.

When I get back from the commute or road ride which I do everyday I will make a green smoothie which is my first food of the day:
1 grapefruit
1 orange
1 apple
1 pear
2 bananas
Tbsp flax seed
1/4 tsp turmeric (heaping)
1 tsp cinnamon (heaping)
1 cup or more spinach raw
1 cup or more kale raw
5 ice cubes
Blend until smooth, delicious!

Supper is usually around 5:00pm, either chicken, pork, beef, sometimes with pasta, or potato, and another vegetable (cooked).

After supper I go to bed till about 8:00 pm, leave home at 8:30 pm, commute round trip 25 miles to work and back, repeat.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

I'm digging that chocolate milk is good source of protein. hehe, was always one of my favorites!

Typically I crawl out of bed and hop in the shower and jet out the door to head to work, minimal time to do anything in the morning.
Today I got up early before work to go for a ride, didn't quite make it out of bed because it was dark and there were some rain / snow flurries mix. Did have time to have breakfast though! Hopefully go for a ride tomorrow morning. Body needs to adjust to getting up earlier/going to bed earlier: I'm feeling the missing sleep as I type this.


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## catbutt23 (Dec 4, 2010)

Diet is at least 70% of fitness. Track calories until you understand what's good and bad in your diet. Assuming you want to get your BMI in line, try limiting total carbs to less than 100grams a day. Fill up the rest of your caloric goal with fat/protein. Tunes your body into utilizing stored fat instead of burning ingested carbs/sugars.

You will lean out and ride like an animal. Will take months of dedication but is very worth it.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

So do most of you watch your carbs, and mainly intake them after a ride/excercise in the 4:1 carb : protein ratio?

_Edit: seperated : and p in the carb/protein ratio because it was making a  _


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## catbutt23 (Dec 4, 2010)

Only those adjusting their power to weight ratio. Less weight = more power!

I am convinced we all eat too many carbs daily.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Bulwyf said:


> So do most of you watch your carbs, and mainly intake them after a ride/excercise in the 4:1 carb : protein ratio?
> 
> _Edit: seperated : and p in the carb/protein ratio because it was making a  _


Nope, At first, when I started to take diet more seriously as a means to fitness goals, there was a learning curve to figure what was around that 4 to 1. After a while you start to get a better idea and it becomes easy imo. If I start to get too skinny or my energy level falls off I up carbs some. If I start to gain too much I cut back to around 3 to 1 for a while. It's amazing how what you start eating might not be likable at first and then many times becomes what you prefer. Like whole wheat instead of white, or yam instead of white, used to love soda now i don't. The only rules i try to stick to are complex carbs instead of simple, and 4+ meals a day. But sometimes it's just not doable to eat 4x and for me it's not worth it if you can't have a slice of pizza or whatever once in a while. The other thing i find amazing is how once you stick to a cleaner diet and exercise for long enough you start to feel better, look better, sleep better etc, and it motivates you to do it more and it gets much easier.
For me i eat around a 4 to 1 just about all the time and it works for me. If you're trying to loose weight and are/want to cut down on carbs then more carbs before and more proteins after is what you want, not the other way around. So before a pbj on ww with banana, and after grilled chicken with veggies is a good example.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Recent research is showing good results by not paying too much attention to total calories and just eat in the right ratios. The old ratio was 40% carb/30% protein/30% fat for diet averaged over multiple days. Difficult to maintain that exact ratio every day, so if it averaged that over a period of several days it is still OK. The current recommended ratio is 50-55% carb/20% fat/20-25% protein . Current WHO recommendations are even higher at 70% carbs.

Carbs should be from whole grains, fruits and vegetables, not added sugars (gel blocks work well for most people; however they are not considered healthy). Avoid processed foods as much as possible. Minimize (but not completely eliminate) meat. I am not trying the start a vegan/carnivore argument. A vegan diet can be as healthy as a diet with small amounts of lean animal protein (<2-3 ounces per day, red meat 1x per week or less). If you eat this way you do not need to closely watch calories, you will be at or under a good caloric level.

You can track your daily diet with the USDA food tracker on-line https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/ or any number of smart phone apps.

I like the USDA site. You can print reports showing ratios, nutrient, calories consumed through activities, etc. (I gave my doctor reports for a month of daily records, and he put them in my file.)

If you want some reading material on eating patterns for maximizing performance, google for books on Nutrient Timing.

Check your local community college for correspondence courses on nutrition. Or check the on-line MOOCS. Take any advice from the .com weightlifting web sites with a dose of skepticism. Most of the time they are 100% wrong and potentially dangerous.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

The USDA site is pretty cool. Trying it out. I might search for an app like you said. I use Sportstracker for my rides/any walking. Neat app also, helps motivate you to be more active as you can see any blocks of inactivity. Would be nice to find an app that does both so I don't have to enter the excercise into the nutrition app manually. That's not that major though.



theMeat said:


> It's amazing how what you start eating might not be likable at first and then many times becomes what you prefer. Like whole wheat instead of white, or yam instead of white, used to love soda now i don't.


It's funny you say this, I was just thinking how everyone is saying whole wheat pb&j, I was going to just use regular white, but now I think I'll take the leap to whole wheat... heh. I know it's true that you adjust/get used to it, and it becomes the norm and you can actually like it/prefer it.

On another note, I did get up early before work and went for a 9 mile ride today. Was kind of cold (New England, was some frozen water on the ground) but I made do with some of the new cycling apparrel I'm starting to accumulate. Stayed warm, have ideas for next ride of where I need to increase warmth.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

Ok, so let me know if there's a more efficient or better way to alter my new morning routine:

I get up and have my breakfast, starting out w/ 1 fried egg w/ cheese in an english muffin. Then I get ready for the ride and get to it, a little over 9 miles in around 50 minutes. I get back and hop in the shower, get ready for work, and have a couple "pinches" of almonds for my post ride protein on my way out the door.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Either way this is a huge improvement over not eating till lunch but since you asked...
If getting more fit is paramount then this works, althou i'd recommend at least 30 min between eat and exercise, 60 is ideal. If loosing weight is paramount then exercise first and eat after since when you wake you're in fasting mode regardless of what you ate before bed, and you'll start cutting into stores right away instead of 20-30 min into it when you're fed.
Also.... if fitness is more important then your diet will/can greatly support those efforts. If loosing weight is more important then exercise will support that. But either way it's much easier to control your weight throu diet since it takes only a few min to eat what it would take hours to burn off.
Not going to say that you should never eat fried foods, you only live once, but a poached egg on a ww english muffin with a piece of fruit is a much better plan.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

Hmmm, never really thought of a fried egg as a fried (frialator) food. Is it less healthy just because of the squirt of spray to grease the pan? Never had a poached egg, I'll look into it.

I'd say getting more fit and losing weight are pretty even goals for me. But factor in getting up early and time constraints before work, I guess I'll try getting up and going for my ride, then coming back and showering/get ready for work, then eat some breakfast and protein.

Thanks for the tips and all the advice Meat, one day I'll be able to rep you again, but the site wants me to spread the love some before I can again 

I already feel a lot more healthy since starting to ride last summer, better stamina, etc. Took a tour of Italy this summer with a lot of walking and climbing hills and stairs to get to old fortresses, etc. and didn't really get too tired from it compared to the exhaustion I probably would have gotten before riding.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanx for thanx, nice is nice.

Yeah when it comes to eggs it's not that big a deal, but it will cut some saturated fat, it's just as easy and imo tastes just as good so as a daily regimen that'll add up. It's also better to mix it up some and not eat the same thing too often, you know, moderation. Have witnessed many times that for most it's about making small changes that add up over time that make it much easier and easier to stick with as a lifestyle.
Kudos for you for getting up and exercising, yeah it's been cold out in the NE.


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

Hard boil the egg, make the smoothie like the one listed above, skip the cheese - it's almost as bad as the oil, you don't need the muffin. Better yet, skip the egg, add ground chia seeds and almond milk. Any time you can eat lower on the food chain the better your health will be. Not a vegan/vegetarian but I only eat about 8oz of meat a week and get the rest of my protein from plant sources. 

The ratios of the smoothie listed are different than the ones I make but same idea. Fruit, tons of green veggies, etc. I haven't tried the turmeric but like the idea. Same with the cinnamon. Other additions include ginger root, almond milk, chia seeds, carrot, coconut water, parsley, celery, etc. Everyday it's a bit different. Once you get the routine down it's easier than cooking and faster. I save the eggs for the weekend meals.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

Ya I've mainly taken the cheese out already, just using up the last of my supply (pet peave: I can't waste food, so I'll just occassionally use up the last couple slices). I'm trying the route of peanut butter (100% peanuts) and banana on whole wheat bread with a cup of chocolate milk after my ride (wake up, ride, get ready for work, protein heavy breakfast, out the door).

*oh, just to note, when I fry the egg I use a 100% olive oil spray from Trader Joe's. Ingredients look healthy-ish on the can of spray. Not sure how much that matters. As I do get more free time to be adventurous and explore new ways of cooking etc I'll try the other methods of eggs. Also not quite ready for the smoothie route yet, but feel free to keep posting ideas/recipes here for them for when I am ready! 

hehe, I had ice in my goatee this morning during my ride. The gear I've collected for winter riding is holding out, ordered a few other pieces last night (balaclava, etc) to complete my set. 

Anyone have any tips or rules for winter riding? I'm riding a MTB bike on a paved bike path each morning. I'm a little concerned for when ice is more prominent. Right now I'm a tad bit chicken-sh!t around tight corners, afraid I might slide in heavy dew or slight ice. Should I be avoiding paved riding?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Bulwyf said:


> Anyone have any tips or rules for winter riding? I'm riding a MTB bike on a paved bike path each morning. I'm a little concerned for when ice is more prominent. Right now I'm a tad bit chicken-sh!t around tight corners, afraid I might slide in heavy dew or slight ice. Should I be avoiding paved riding?


You'll likely figure out the routes that have the least amount of water/ice. If it does get icy you might look into some studded tires, although they are good for nothing but riding on ice and snow. If it becomes to treacherous you could switch to an indoor trainer.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Bulwyf said:


> *oh, just to note, when I fry the egg I use a 100% olive oil spray from Trader Joe's. Ingredients look healthy-ish on the can of spray. Not sure how much that matters.


The main bad thing that comes from frying is oils that get oxidized. However, an egg doesn't take a lot of power or heat to fry, so you should be ok. Also, saturated fats, like butter, are harder to oxidize than other types of fats, so go ahead and fry your eggs in butter, like all the pro cooks do.


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

beanbag said:


> The main bad thing that comes from frying is oils that get oxidized. However, an egg doesn't take a lot of power or heat to fry, so you should be ok. Also, saturated fats, like butter, are harder to oxidize than other types of fats, so go ahead and fry your eggs in butter, like all the pro cooks do.


What's your opinion on ghee, especially for cooking in high heat. It's better than butter because it doesn't smoke and doesn't have some of the negative properties oil in high heat.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

5 fats you should be cooking with ? but may not be


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Poe4soul said:


> What's your opinion on ghee, especially for cooking in high heat. It's better than butter because it doesn't smoke and doesn't have some of the negative properties oil in high heat.


Yes, ghee, macademia oil, lard, bacon grease, rendered duck fat, goose fat... are all great for high heat cooking.
Another good fat for cooking would be coconut oil.
Olive oil only in cold kitchen, if heated it oxidezes.
The worst are vegetable oils, very unstable and oxideze fast. Margarine, like most know is a big no no.

I am a big proponent of primal eating.
No grains whatsoever, low carbs, high fat diet. 
Grass fed organic meat, low mercury wild caught seafood. Bacon, grass fed eggs and butter. Sticks of butter are one of my favorite treats.
Lots of organic veggies, fruit in moderation, sprouted nuts and seeds,berries.
Dairy free.

I also do intermittent fasting - eat only in 6-8hour window, usually between 11am and 6pm.

Feeling great


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

jazzanova said:


> I also do intermittent fasting - eat only in 6-8hour window, usually between 11am and 6pm.
> 
> Feeling great


That's basically how I used to eat, lunch around 12 noon, dinner around 5-5:30, then probably a snack later on around 8pm. Nothing in between. Of course I was even more clueless about calories etc then and ate whatever was cheap/convienient/i was in the mood for. Educating myself 1 step at a time slowly but surely about calories and what foods are good for this or that.

_edit: hehe, upon reviewing this post it kind of sounded like I was comparing how I ate to how you eat. Not what I intended, I ate like sh!t._ :thumbsup:

*about resting your muscles:*
So I've been pretty good about riding before work every morning, haven't skipped any days in just under 2 weeks. I've read somewhere on the forums you're supposed to rest every now and then so your muscles can recover/grow. Looking at my Sportstracker logs, when I was riding just a couple days after work when I could get out early while it was getting dark earlier and earlier, and riding on the weekends if I was free, I was going about 12.5mph avg over the 9 mile lap. When I was riding more frequently I notice it gradually slowing down to about 11 mph avg. That was on my 20 year old 26in. bike. I've recently started up again on my new 29er since this weekend and this morning I avg'd 13.9 mph trying to keep constant the whole ride. I'd have to check my old phone but I thought when I first got the new bike my avg' was in the 15's mph.

Anyways, to make a long story short, when I got back after a 10 day trip this summer w/out riding I remember feeling like I was killing the route, legs not getting tired etc. So any thoughts on if I should plan a few consequtive days off to rest, or just let those days naturally come (weekends I'm not around to ride, heavy rainy days, etc)


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

When you'r pushing hard, Imo 2 days off in a row each week, or at least 2 days real easy in a row.. Yeah, and some days/weeks you feel stronger faster than others, and on some of those days you're actually right about that feeling, and on some it goes away faster/stays longer than others etc. Also what's real limits for that day in terms of condition and diet, and what's in your head and everything in between. Wouldn't be surprised if your extra clothing is slowing you down some.
As far as getting ready for a race or marathon you shouldn't take off too many days, but for fitness gains, to avoid plateauing and over training, take off 2 days in row each week, and think in terms of 6-8 week cycles. Mix one cycle up some from the last, and also mix it up some within a cycle. Then even thou you may come back a bit weaker for a few days, take off, or largely take off a week or two every one or 2 cycles. After that first few days back, you should get back to where you were and be getting stronger/faster with each cycle, if not then it's likely you're not pushing hard enough, or you need to tweak your diet.


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## AKnRDR (Aug 19, 2013)

Bulwyf said:


> Hello all, I've just started riding regularly last year. It turns out cycling is a good hobby for me because I'm a sucker for customizing and tweaking things, and I had no idea there was such a wide range of options for bicycles!
> 
> I mainly do it for fun (riding), but if I can get in better shape doing it, awesome!
> 
> ...


I usually never really have a set plan; however, i use the following "plan" as a general rule of thumb. I find that it is best to be slightly hungry before hand. Then about 10 minutes before your work out consume about two servings of honey or one serving of a gel. Oranges also work well. Make sure to also consume at last one cup of water with the food, this will help your body metabolize the fuel more efficiently. I have found that this method works best to optimize performance because your body will gradually replenish lost carbs that are burned from your workout with the easily digestible source from your gel, honey, or orange.

Afterwards I consume about 20 grams of protein. I have read studies that show that when consuming protean within this time frame subjects recovered faster from their workout in addition to building muscle faster. As far as obtaining that source I would shoot for gold standard egg protein mix . I like it because it contains all of the amino acids and bcaa's that make a complete protean. It is also sourced from egg whites so you don't have to worry about cholesterol.

If you want to do further research remember that the principles for nutrition for an active person usually work for all active people (a runners meal and a cyclists meal don't really differ because their bodies essentially require the same nutrients.) Basically don't get hung up on nutrition specific to cyclists, and always remember that what works for someone else may not work for you. Experiment! But most importantly eat a balanced meal and consume 8-10 cups of water a day. I hope this helped, and good luck out there!


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

The more that one sticks to a whole natural food diet, the less you have to worry about diet.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Best fuel for rides is a bowl of oatmeal, with fruit(apples, bananas, or berries). It won't hunker you down in a food-induced coma and all the energy will be sustained-release. 

I'm on a different mission than most and rides to lose excess body fat. Therefore, I ride immediately upon waking on an empty stomach. Instead of utilizing ingested food as fuel - my body switches to burning stored fat, as the primary energy source. However, I must remind myself to keep my efforts moderate....or else I will deplete all my muscle glycogen and collapse(bonk).


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Zachariah said:


> Best fuel for rides is a bowl of oatmeal, with fruit(apples, bananas, or berries).
> 
> I'm on a different mission than most and rides to lose excess body fat. Therefore, I ride immediately upon waking on an empty stomach. Instead of utilizing ingested food as fuel - my body switches to burning stored fat, as the primary energy source.


If you want your body to burn fat, then eat more fat and less carbs. Carbs are fast / easy burning fuels, so if you eat only that before a ride, your body will use that for energy instead of your fat stores.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Zachariah said:


> I'm on a different mission than most and rides to lose excess body fat. Therefore, I ride immediately upon waking on an empty stomach. Instead of utilizing ingested food as fuel - my body switches to burning stored fat, as the primary energy source. However, I must remind myself to keep my efforts moderate....or else I will deplete all my muscle glycogen and collapse(bonk).


 This works great but for most looses it's effectiveness with time. Take 2-4 weeks off and come back to it for a month or 2 for better over all progress.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

beanbag said:


> If you want your body to burn fat, then eat more fat and less carbs. Carbs are fast / easy burning fuels, so if you eat only that before a ride, your body will use that for energy instead of your fat stores.


It's true, there seems to be a tipping point or a balance thou. Cut out enough fats/carbs and your body starts to store/crave whatever whenever it can. Eat too much and how much storage? Exercising while wanting/needing carbs your energy will not be as great so ? You might be burning more stores for the moment but if getting more fit, more muscle or quicker recovery is a goal this isn't ideal, or at least can be a delicate balance. Why not use food amounts, fats and carbs included, since it takes only a few minutes to eat what it could take hours to burn off anyway, even if you're exercising while fasting/starving. Leave riding to having fun and getting better faster stronger.


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## mcrommett (Oct 15, 2013)

Interesting read. Gave me some good ideas.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

Ok, quick question regarding fasting:

So if you don't eat for long periods, say skip breakfast and don't eat until lunch, your body thinks it's starving and starts burning muscle and storing fat. ...but if you wake up from fasting and start doing excercise you burn stored fat? Is it just the difference between basic motor functions (nothing stressful) and for heavy excercise the body needs to burn stored fat over muscle to keep up?

I'm guessing if the body thinks it's starving it will burn the muscle to preserve the stored fat for when it needs it? Is the stored fat more efficient for excercise, or more burns quicker than muscle to meet the demands of needing the energy right then and there?


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

No quick or easy answer, and certainly not the same for everyone across the board.

Your body doesn't store or store more from exercise. It stores from having excess food and/or from fasting/starving in preparation for the next fasting/starving event. That's why eating smaller more often to curb storage can take a few weeks to a few months or not be very effective at all, and it's a matter of how long or if at all your body will realize it doesn't have to store for times of need simply because it doesn't have any. If you or your genes are from the deserts of Kenya for example, there's not much you are likely to try that will help stop storage short of eating less.
More often meals thou is better for everyone at building and repairing muscle because most proteins get used up within a few hours and when that protein's done so is your muscle growing and repairing.

Exercising while fasting...
for the most part for most people your body burns fat before muscle, then at whatever intensity, or whatever duration it will start to consume muscle. 

Hope this helps, and it may take some experimenting to find what works. For me i start to consume muscle pretty quick, and also start to store more if i fast too often for long enough.


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

It'll be interesting to hear the responses from those the suggested this.

No matter what, the body burns glycogen stored in the muscle and in the blood/liver first. Fat is usually the next used when glycogen is depleted. I would guess that since you are fasting in the morning the body has less reserves of glycogen in the blood/liver and will metabolise fat stores next. Protein/muscle is hard to convert to energy than fat.

Fat conversion depends on percentage of body fat available and intensity of the workout. Moderate for a longer period is generally thought to be better. But then there is the HIIT crowd and the dreaded tabata protocol.

If you want to lose fat faster, do more strength training. It won't help your aerobic or become a better/faster cyclist but it will increase your metabolism. This and drink lots of water. If you aren't peeing every hour you're not hydrated. The next low fruit is to reduce stress and sleep at least 7-8 hours a night. (magnesium supplement helps me a ton for good sleep. I take this every night Natural Calm: The Anti Stress Drink)

If I was going to try intermittent fasting/training idea, I would make my dinner meal early and have at least 12 hours before my ride. I'd probably only do it twice a week.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

The best exercise to lose fat (some say the only exercise that reduces fat) is pushaways at the dinner table.

There is a general misunderstanding about burning fat. Poe is correct -- the body's preferred fuel source is glycogen. The body uses fat when glycogen stores get low. Fat is then converted to glucose, and most of us have ample stores of energy in the form of fat (average 130,000 calories). Not all of it is stored in the visible places, like the middle. Fat is found throughout the body, and in several different forms. The membranes of every cell in the body are made of phospholipids, a type of fat.

When you are laying on the couch watching TV, you are burning almost exclusively fat. You are not burning very much, but the little fuel you are burning is nearly all fat. As activity level increases the body starts using more glycogen. You are burning more fuel, and the percentage that is fat decreases as the percentage of glycogen fuel increases. At maximum exertion you are burning mostly glycogen and only a small amount of fat. This is where the concept of 'fat burning zone' comes in (although the term is a misnomer). As your activity level increases the percent of energy from fat decreases. BUT you are burning more total fuel, so you are still burning more fat than you are at lower levels. At maximum exertion you are burning a small percentage of fat, which is a smaller percentage of a large amount of fuel, so you are burning a lot of fat. So why is the 'fat burning zone' usually considered at a submaximal exertion level? Because you cannot maintain that level very long. The 'fat burning zone' is the highest amount of fat burned over a sustained period -- at a pace you can continue long enough to be a good workout and burn a lot of fuel.

HIIT (High intensity Interval Training, Fartleks, Wind Sprints, et al) also helps burn fat because you partially recover between intervals. HIIT also has another benefit -- over time it increases the number of mitochondria in muscle cells, so more ATP is generated, giving you more muscle endurance before fatigue.

Also note for fit people the limiting factor at maximal exertion is the lungs. The lungs can only process so much oxygen at any one time. There is a limit where the muscles can do more work, but cannot get any more oxygen because the lungs cannot keep up with demand. Training will increase this limit, but not indefinitely. The world class endurance athletes seem to top out VO2 max around 90 ml/kg/min There may be a few that have surpassed 100, I have not heard of any.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Wow there's some fart smellers round here. While i completely get the push away from the table exercise since it's much easier and faster to control weight throu diet than try and burn it off for anyone, that's where it ends. Exercise burns calories period. It also raises your metab and has an after exercise burning calorie effect which goes up with intensity. Not to mention the rate at which glycogen fat or muscle burned and at what level of intensity varies greatly.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Short Fasts for Weight Loss vs. Traditional Diets - WSJ.com


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Bulwyf said:


> Hello all, I've just started riding regularly last year. It turns out cycling is a good hobby for me because I'm a sucker for customizing and tweaking things, and I had no idea there was such a wide range of options for bicycles!
> 
> I mainly do it for fun (riding), but if I can get in better shape doing it, awesome!
> 
> ...


Here is what I do most days when *I don't ride*

Wake up and drink a 12oz glass of water.

6:00 Eat breakfast. Normally Greek Yogurt, thin slice of Turkey Meatloaf (don't knock it until you try it!) and sometimes a slice of Ezekiel bread Food For Life

9:00 eat two hard boiled eggs (no yoke) and some fruit (banana / apple most days).

11:00 Small salad.

12:30 Hit the gym. Weights with little to no cardio.

1:30 Snack&#8230;Maybe Muscle Milk Light and some more fruit.

3:30 Snack&#8230;Nuts or Turkey Jerky&#8230;something along those lines.

5:30 Dinner&#8230;Something good (Very little processed food) and a light beer:thumbsup:

7:30 Light Popcorn with Tapatío Hot sauce and another light beer

9:00 Almonds or some other nuts.

10:00 Bed time.

On the days I ride I skip the gym (sometimes) and eat more carbs before the ride and more protein after the ride. In June 2012 I was 235lbs. March 2013 I was 185lbs. Worked for me.

The key for me was small meals, giving up bread and weight training. I rode less and got faster due to the loss in weight and added strength. I am 6'2" and still 185 but want to get down to 180lbs.


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

DeeZee said:


> Here is what I do most days when *I don't ride*
> ...
> 
> Ezekiel bread .


I've seen this in the store but never purchased it. I see they decided not to make Ezekiel 4:12 cakes which were cooked over human feces.

I really don't understand the Ezekiel bread. It was made during a time of famine with the only ingredients around that would grow. But it doesn't have all the crap, sorry for the pun, most breads have. I'd have to guess it doesn't have any GMO ingredients. That would be a total slap in god's face.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Poe4soul said:


> I've seen this in the store but never purchased it. I see they decided not to make Ezekiel 4:12 cakes which were cooked over human feces.
> 
> I really don't understand the Ezekiel bread. It was made during a time of famine with the only ingredients around that would grow. But it doesn't have all the crap, sorry for the pun, most breads have. I'd have to guess it doesn't have any GMO ingredients. That would be a total slap in god's face.


It is made of sprouted grains and not processed flour like other breads (including "Whole" wheat). It tastes good especially the cinnamon raisin. Give it a try!:thumbsup:


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Cool beans DeeZee. Don'tcha love it when some well placed knowledge helps your efforts pay off and can make ALL the difference. The best to me is when someone finds a way to make it work, that works for them, that fits into their lifestyle, and reaches their goals. Then there's always the added bonuses that aren't as obvious as feeling and looking better. Like more longer and better sex, sleeping better, don't get sick as often, living longer, etc. 
Good for you, thanx for posting


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

Read this yesterday on MSN The superfood that extends your life - Nutrition - MSN Healthy Living I had been using various nuts as a small snack between meals when I had started this thread (since ran out and need to do a grocery run).

Trader Joe's has some pimp almonds mixed with olive oil and rosemary. I'll have to pick up some unsalted nuts of some kind and incorporate them again into my routine.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

...I should also pick up a scale while I'm out so I can actually track my weight! haha


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Bulwyf said:


> ...I should also pick up a scale while I'm out so I can actually track my weight! haha


I weight myself at the doc, vet, airport, and gym, sometimes. Once you're at it for a while you can guess within a couplafew pounds what your weight is. Unless you get a quality scale it can be very wrong and get worse over time, and even if it's accurate there's water weight, fat and muscle so ? 
Think it's better to judge your progress by how/where your clothes fit, how much you can pinch and by your energy level. Not saying don't get a scale, but you get the point


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

theMeat said:


> I weight myself at the docs, at the airport sometimes, and at the gym sometimes. Once you're at it for a while you can guess within a couple of pounds what your weight is. Unless you get a quality scale it can be very wrong and get worse over time, and even if it's accurate there's water weight, fat and muscle so ?
> Think it's better to judge your progress by how/where your clothes fit, and by your energy level. Not saying don't get a scale, but you get the point


I stand in front of a mirror, tense my muscles, bounce up and down, and see what parts jiggle.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

beanbag said:


> I stand in front of a mirror, tense my muscles, bounce up and down, and see what parts jiggle.


Can we get a video?

On second thought, never mind. Would rather keep the image of you jumping around looking like a Richard Simmons video, lol


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

theMeat said:


> Cool beans DeeZee. Don'tcha love it when some well placed knowledge helps your efforts pay off and can make ALL the difference. The best to me is when someone finds a way to make it work, that works for them, that fits into their lifestyle, and reaches their goals. Then there's always the added bonuses that aren't as obvious as feeling and looking better. Like more longer and better sex, sleeping better, don't get sick as often, living longer, etc.
> Good for you, thanx for posting


Thanks. Agree what works for one person doesn't work for everyone.

One other thing for me that I forgot to mention was a food tracker app for my phone was HUGE. As the saying goes "what gets measured gets done". I just look at food differently&#8230;&#8230;kinda like taking medicine. Ingest the correct portions of protein / carbs / fat at specific times.

As stated many times in this thread it is more important what you put in you vs. what you need to do to get it out. I really don't need the app anymore but still use it to track my progress. What I am eating and the effect it has on my weight and energy.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

DeeZee said:


> Thanks. Agree what works for one person doesn't work for everyone.
> 
> One other thing for me that I forgot to mention was a food tracker app for my phone was HUGE. As the saying goes "what gets measured gets done". I just look at food differently&#8230;&#8230;kinda like taking medicine. Ingest the correct portions of protein / carbs / fat at specific times.
> 
> As stated many times in this thread it is more important what you put in you vs. what you need to do to get it out. I really don't need the app anymore but still use it to track my progress. What I am eating and the effect it has on my weight and energy.


Ya, I've been using the USDA supertracker that Dave recomended earlier in this thread. It does help you understand what are pros/cons of things you eat so you can learn and adapt/adjust going forward. Weird though that I put in my age/weight/avg excercise etc and it alloted me a 3200 calorie/day diet. I bumped it down to 2200 goal and really haven't had any issues reaching that goal.

Hehe, except around thanksgiving where there's a huge spike in my history graph for those few days. Now I see why everyone talks about how quickly the calories etc add up around the holidays.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

I tried using a couple different tracking apps on my phone, so I could record my meals and activities immediately instead of the end of the day.

Did not work out too well. Screens are too small and fingers too big.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

"...Weird though that I put in my age/weight/avg excercise etc and it alloted me a 3200 calorie/day diet. I bumped it down to 2200 goal and really haven't had any issues reaching that goal..."

I am not sure how they determine caloric needs on that site.
There are several formulas, the most commonly used is the Harris-Benedict equation (you can google it, too long to post here). Do not get too hung up over which formula is better. For most people all the different formulas yield very similar results -- within a narrow range. For weight loss with a minimum of negative side effects aim for about 10% fewer calories per day than the formula suggests. Too low a caloric intake (crash diet) can lead to other problems. It has taken you many years to build up to your current weight. It may take a long time to safely and permanently get down to your desired weight. Successful permanent weight loss is a permanent lifestyle change, not a temporary dietary adjustment.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

*Poe4Soul:
*I've been getting a good 8 solid hours of sleep. Still kind of weird going to bed earlier/getting up earlier, but it's definately routine now. I could stand to drink more water maybe. I used to drink more at my previous job because we had a water cooler. It was a good excuse to stretch my legs and take a break to get some water & bring some back to my desk. I bring a 20oz bottle of ice water to work, drink it throughout the day. Fill it up again when I'm home, but sometimes forget to drink, other times I"ll drink through it and refill.

*theMeat:
*You said that you found that you burn muscle pretty quickly, how do you determine that? I'm guessing it's something you've learned over the long run, but what are the tell-tale signs that tip you off?

*dave54:
*Ya, I ended up not even bothering looking for another app. I can use the web site on my phone/tablet, so it's all the same. I just made a shortcut for the bookmark to the webpage like I would have an app.

I was able to get in a couple longer rides in over the weekend, making sure to hit a couple of the big hills. Legs were kind of sore over the weekend so taking a few days off now (good timing because we just had a slight ice/snow storm overnight).

Overall so far my legs are feeling like they're getting pretty solid muscle wise. Saw some people this weekend I don't see regularly and they commented that I looked like I've lose weight.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Bulwyf said:


> *theMeat:
> *You said that you found that you burn muscle pretty quickly, how do you determine that? I'm guessing it's something you've learned over the long run, but what are the tell-tale signs that tip you off?


I've been living in this body for as long as i can remember, also use my eyes and utilize a mirror sometimes. How I feel and what and where i can pinch too.

Quick story that galvanized things for me. 
After about 6 months of sticking to a much better diet once I decided to take diet serious as a means to achieve fitness goals. My progress was very impressive althou a bit sluggish to get going.

Had a group of about 10 men descend upon my yard to redo my cement work. Some worked very hard all day and some didn't use their body much at all, like the bobcat operator, or the cement truck guy. The only one who had any kind of physique was the owner of the company. The rest were all a bit scrawny with a noticeable gut. I wondered how with all the physical work they did daily how this was so. Every day around lunch time i offered lunch to the crew and every day they said no. After a few days I noticed the owner left for a while every day around lunch time. After a few days i asked him when he returned from his lunch why they didn't take my lunch offer and he said they don't eat lunch ever, but also told me he always did. It couldn't get any more clear for me. I get very involved and a bit obsessed with projects. So that causes me to forget to, or not wanna to take the time to eat as often or as much as what has proven to me to work best. As a result i quickly start to loose muscle and keep at it long enough and the storage kicks in a much bigger way too.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Scrawny with a large gut....

Sounds like a protein deficiency. In severe cases it is called kwashiokor.

Dinner and breakfast are probably low protein, high carb and fat.
You did not say if they were hispanic. Low dietary protein is not uncommon in hispanic day laborers. Low irregular income means they buy cheap processed food, lots of tortillas and corn, and fast food (mini mart microwaved burritos). Not a very healthy diet.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm not sure there is any scientific evidence that skipping lunch causes a scrawny physique and belly fat. Maybe they all hung out at the end of the day and had a few Coronas.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Whether they were Hispanic or drank beer has nothing to do with how skipping meals can lead to more storage and does not support muscle.


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

theMeat said:


> Whether they were Hispanic or drank beer has nothing to do with how skipping meals can lead to more storage and does not support muscle.


Really, Interesting considering there are bodybuilders and MMA athletes that use Warrior Diet with successful results. And then there Intermittent fasting....


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Yea, it is really interesting, as well as tried and true.
Any successful bb who stays informed or has tried it knows that i.f. or warrior type diet is best for the last few stubborn pounds, or to be used to cycle on and off for brief cycles because mostly the entire population WILL sacrifice muscle along with those pounds, as well as are likely to start storing more if done for long enough.


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

Do share your sources... 

I think there are many ways to skin this cat. I've read many bro' posts that find both of these methods of eating valuable. I agree that we all have to find our own way and the small meal plan it can easy but some will overeat, especially if they entertain or go out to eat much, on this plan. 

I personally know a trainer that used WD for a couple of years. It's not for everyone but it worked for him. I tried it for about a month. I didn't care for it and didn't have any negative metabolic rate issues or lose of muscles you spoke of. I did take supplements during the fast. I actually didn't lose any muscle but gained muscle. Not huge like a powerlifter or bodybuilder would want, but that wasn't my goal. 

Intermittent fasting has some real merit and not just for losing weight. One thing that you fail to mention on your small little 6 meals a day is your gut never has a time to heal or stop digesting. Especially if you have a food allergy or sensitivity that is unknown. Is it a bigger problem than being overweight or over caloried? Probably not. 

Granted, with both of those approaches you have to be very disciplined. All eating should be of good quality nutrients and just because you fast doesn't mean you don't eat proper nutrient rich food in balance. I do agree that it would be very difficult for someone to jump into the WD without a good eating/nutrition habits. But for someone that is pretty squared away, both can work. Many do very well on intermittent fasting.


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

Bulwyf said:


> *Poe4Soul:
> *I've been getting a good 8 solid hours of sleep. Still kind of weird going to bed earlier/getting up earlier, but it's definitely routine now. I could stand to drink more water maybe. I used to drink more at my previous job because we had a water cooler. It was a good excuse to stretch my legs and take a break to get some water & bring some back to my desk. I bring a 20oz bottle of ice water to work, drink it throughout the day. Fill it up again when I'm home, but sometimes forget to drink, other times I"ll drink through it and refill.


When I'm trying to lose weight I'll drink a large class of water, probably 16-32 oz in the morning getting ready. After each time I urinate I drink about 12ozs of water and go back to work. This puts me on a schedule of drinking about 12ozs every hour. If I'm working out, I'd like to well over a gallon of water a day. That said, I don't drink much while I eat, or for about an hour after eating, to give my body time to digest. I'm not on the grazing plan like Meat suggests. I usually drink a vegetable juice in the am, eat a good lunch and a smaller dinner or sometimes just a juice or smoothie if I haven't worked out in the PM. I rarely snack and if I do it's a few nuts or piece of fruit.

You really can't drink too much water but many people find that dehydration stalls weight loss.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Whatever, can't find much I want to argue there ^, but will say for most that the more active, challenging or advanced you are with condition, the more likely you're short changing your efforts.
If you want to speak very generally ^ of coarse, and of coarse it's all relative. If you went from eating whatever whenever to eating well once a day. Or if you went from not exercising at all to pretty much any routine you'll see gains. 
Unless you've tried it you just don't know what methods are going to work best for you. Saying 6 small little meals, or "do tell" like it's a phenomenon is just silly, or should I say "bro", where you been?


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

I agree with most everything you've posted here. So, no real bone to pick. Just wanted to point out that there are other approaches for losing weight. Some work better for some individuals. 

I'm would not necessarily concerned with "advanced" conditioning for someone carrying 30-40 lbs of excess weight. Some exceptions exist like linemen, or other athletes that need bulk to compete. I'd recommend primarily working on weight loss and then pursue getting in great condition. There's just too much evidence that those extra pounds can shorten your life... Weight loss - especially with endurance sports. It's much easier to move longer, faster with less weight. I personally would cut all dairy, wheat, white/brown rice, and soy. I'd only consume protein a few times a week. This protein would only be lamb, free range/antibiotic free chicken or turkey. If you are eating tons of leafy greens and some beans and burning fat you really don't need that much protein or fats. Your body is consuming stored fat. 

Honestly, I think all you've suggested is good advice.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

Poe4soul said:


> I agree with most everything you've posted here. So, no real bone to pick. Just wanted to point out that there are other approaches for losing weight. Some work better for some individuals.
> 
> I'm would not necessarily concerned with "advanced" conditioning for someone carrying 30-40 lbs of excess weight. Some exceptions exist like linemen, or other athletes that need bulk to compete. I'd recommend primarily working on weight loss and then pursue getting in great condition. There's just too much evidence that those extra pounds can shorten your life... Weight loss - especially with endurance sports. It's much easier to move longer, faster with less weight. *I personally would cut all dairy, wheat, white/brown rice, and soy.* I'd only consume protein a few times a week. This protein would only be lamb, free range/antibiotic free chicken or turkey. If you are eating tons of leafy greens and some beans and burning fat you really don't need that much protein or fats. Your body is consuming stored fat.
> 
> Honestly, I think all you've suggested is good advice.


Ok, so I'm obviously still at the beginning phase of my evolving new healthier lifestyle and learning the ropes of all the different diet philosophies. I've started watching calories, stopping/eating less of more "junk" food types, excercising more regularly. I'm not at the phase yet where I decide to eliminate certain types of foods etc yet, with that it mind:

*This is not just directed at Poe (I'd like to hear all sides):*What are the pros/cons of wheat and rice mentioned above. I'm guessing its the carbs? I've switched from regular breads to whole wheat. Heh, I've also just created a spicey beans & rice meal that I really enjoy 8P I know there's the Atkins is it, that is based on avoiding carbs? Carbs store longer or are harder to burn off or something?

Thanks


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Well thanx Poe.
Yeah there's more than one way to skin this cat, and there's also what's popular for the moment because one or a few hi profile people find it useful, then everyone wants to try it, or the new superfood of the week.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Bulwyf said:


> This is not just directed at Poe (I'd like to hear all sides)


 The more complex The carb the more slowly it gets used, used up, or stored.
Before someone feels the need to correct me I'll say that for the sake of keeping it simple, and for where you are with training look at it like this.....First, the simpler the carb the faster it gets converted to sugar and becomes usable energy, and the more likely more goes unused therefore potentially stored. Second, proteins fats and all the other nutrients that come along with them, as well as with carbs, are what your body needs, and just look at carbs as the shuttle for them to get there. I have seen great results as well as many bad side effects from diets like atkin's or the likes. Think the cleanest you should get, as far as carbs, is to get them from veggies and fruits but you should still get them. As compared to bowls or cereal, or helpings of potatoes, even if they're sweet potatoes. 
As anyone starts to diet, exercise whatever you have waves of progress when your body starts to realize/respond to the changes/improvements, while at the same time your bod is trying to compensate. Our bodies are designed and have evolved to store for times of need. So because of this IMO it's best to make small changes to eliminate certain carbs or calories to get the most out of each reduction/improvement. Your end game, or the end of the ladder should be eating lean meats with veggies fruits and nuts. Whether you want to get all or most of your fats and proteins from plant based foods is a whole nother subject so i won't go there.

Oh, and for the record, I do fast for 24 hours usually once every month or two. It's especially helpful when you feel you reached a plateau particularly with diet, or when you make diet changes


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

They are just empty calories. There are better places to get the nutrients they provide without the calories. Wheat is also an allergen, or an irritant, for some people. If you are allergic it causes digestion issues. Protein is also very difficult to digest but that is very difficult for some to leave behind or limit drastically. I've pretty much kicked beef to the curb unless I source it from grass fed beef. Again, too many antibiotics used. Not that I think it harms me but I don't think it's good for us in the long run.

Here stumbled on this reading about IF - Not related to IF but explains my perspective better than I can.


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

theMeat said:


> The more complex The carb the more slowly it gets used, used up, or stored.
> Before someone feels the need to correct me I'll say that for the sake of keeping it simple, and for where you are with training look at it like this.....First the simpler the carb the faster it gets converted to sugar and becomes usable energy, and the more likely it is to be stored if unused. Second, proteins fats and all the other nutrients that come along with them, as well as with carbs, are what your body needs, and just look at carbs as the shuttle for them to get there. I have seen great results as well as many bad side effects from diets like atkin's or the likes. Think the cleanest you should get as far as carbs are to get them from veggies and fruits but you should still get them. As compared to bowls or cereal, or helpings of potatoes, even if they're sweet potatoes. As anyone starts to diet, exercise whatever you have waves of progress when your body starts to realize the changes/progress while at the same time your bod is trying to compensate. Our bodies are designed and have evolved to store for times of need. So because of this IMO it's best to make small changes to eliminate certain carbs or calories to get the most of each reduction. Your end game, or the end of the ladder should be eating lean meats with veggies fruits and nuts. Whether you want to get all or most of your fats and proteins from plant based foods is a whole nother subject so i won't go there.


Well said, add legumes and we are in complete agreement.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Bulwyf said:


> Ok, quick question regarding fasting:
> 
> So if you don't eat for long periods, say skip breakfast and don't eat until lunch, your body thinks it's starving and starts burning muscle and storing fat. ...but if you wake up from fasting and start doing excercise you burn stored fat? Is it just the difference between basic motor functions (nothing stressful) and for heavy excercise the body needs to burn stored fat over muscle to keep up?
> 
> I'm guessing if the body thinks it's starving it will burn the muscle to preserve the stored fat for when it needs it? Is the stored fat more efficient for excercise, or more burns quicker than muscle to meet the demands of needing the energy right then and there?


Stored fat is NOT the best performance-based fuel. It was "designed" only to sustain to most rudimentary functions of life, in emergency situations; breathing, eating, sleeping, foraging, etc. It's a long-storing, rancid fat that has almost no element of what the muscles and brain thrives on....sugar.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

"foraging". That sounds like "daily activities if you ask me.

"rancid"? How so?

Acta Neurol Taiwan. 2009 Dec;18(4):231-41.
Essential fatty acids and human brain.
Chang CY, Ke DS, Chen JY.
Source

Department of Neurology, Chi-Mei Medical Center, Tainan Taiwan. 
Abstract

The human brain is nearly 60 percent fat. We've learned in recent years that fatty acids are among the most crucial molecules that determine your brain's integrity and ability to perform. Essential fatty acids (EFAs) are required for maintenance of optimal health but they can not synthesized by the body and must be obtained from dietary sources. Clinical observation studies has related imbalance dietary intake of fatty acids to impaired brain performance and diseases. Most of the brain growth is completed by 5-6 years of age. The EFAs, particularly the omega-3 fatty acids, are important for brain development during both the fetal and postnatal period. Dietary decosahexaenoic acid (DHA) is needed for the optimum functional maturation of the retina and visual cortex, with visual acuity and mental development seemingly improved by extra DHA. Beyond their important role in building the brain structure, EFAs, as messengers, are involved in the synthesis and functions of brain neurotransmitters, and in the molecules of the immune system. Neuronal membranes contain phospholipid pools that are the reservoirs for the synthesis of specific lipid messengers on neuronal stimulation or injury. These messengers in turn participate in signaling cascades that can either promote neuronal injury or neuroprotection. The goal of this review is to give a new understanding of how EFAs determine our brain's integrity and performance, and to recall the neuropsychiatric disorders that may be influenced by them. As we further unlock the mystery of how fatty acids affect the brain and better understand the brain's critical dependence on specific EFAs, correct intake of the appropriate diet or supplements becomes one of the tasks we undertake in pursuit of optimal wellness.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Ok, so we're all fat heads, starting to make sense, but rancid?, would think you should probably talk to your doc about that


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

Update for any interested, saw a scale this weekend, rang in at 240 lbs.
That's 30-35 lbs gone. =)

Hehe, went for a ride this morning after taking a week off due to snow, took a different angle of the turnaround on my route and just decided to zip up a short but steep grass hill. It felt kind of natural popping up off my seat and tearing through it like nothing, where when I first started out my legs might have been too tired to stand up or harder weighing 33 lb's more.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Good for you Bulwyf. 

So, like the thread title asks, "what's your routine"? 
What changes have you made to date? How many pounds lost a week average? 
Yeah, the weather here in the NE has been crazy, the last few days were a gift as far as riding in December goes.


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

well, I'd say I was typically around 272-275 lbs normally whenever I'd find myself near a scale.

It was Nov. 13 (around the start of this thread) that I started using the supertracker and logging in my food intake. A week or a week and a half before I had started "half-assing" it and cut out my evening snack, so I was just eating lunch and dinner.

Figured I'd try what I kept hearing and try and boost my metabolism:
Basically what I do is when I ride before work: wake up, pile on my layers of winter riding gear, go for my ride (about 43 avg. minutes of mtb w/ knobbies on pavement) come back and shower/dress for work. Then have my breakfast (usually fried egg on english muffin w/ dash cayenne pepper & dash Frank's red hot sauce. Go to work, about 2 hours later try to have a snack (typically an ounce of nuts, usually almonds). Lunch (at noon) will vary w/ whatever I've made/have, but I typically always have an apple and 8oz. can of V8 Fruit Fussion with it. Couple hours later another ounce of almonds. Dinner usually ~5:30 again, whatever I have.

Peanut Butter (the 100% peanut kind) and banana on whole wheat bread is another go to item. I know a lot of people want to cut out the bread/grains. I don't think I ate much bread before, started buying wheat bread for sandwiches since Nov 13th. Maybe when I get to a certain plateau, I'll cut out bread, who knows.

I used to have probably a can a soda a day (with dinner) before, haven't really had much since (a couple times when at work related meals and can't have a beer).

_edit: Guess it was about 33 lbs in about 5.5 weeks, so 6 lb/week?_


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## Bulwyf (Sep 9, 2013)

theMeat said:


> Yeah, the weather here in the NE has been crazy, the last few days were a gift as far as riding in December goes.


Ya, I didn't get to ride during the weekend either =(
QQ


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm about 3-4lbs a week right now. Started the week before thanksgiving about 205 and now below 185. Target it mid 170's. Then I'll switch my focus back to strength training and re-incorporating the starches and some wheat back into the deit. 

I basically cut all sugar, alcohol, wheat, and soy. Oh, I forgot dairy but I'd pretty much given that up over a year ago. I rarely eat starches. Basically have a shake/smoothie for b-fast. Usually a vegetable based juice. Eat a solid meal for lunch being mostly cooked of fresh leafy greens or cruciferous vegetables, beans or wild rice and about 4-6 oz of cold water fish (salmon, halibut, tuna, mackerel, sardines, etc.) or lamb. Dinner is usually a homemade vegetable soup (no pasta and only wild rice). If I'm lazy, late, or have too much going on, I'll juice at night. I supplement my juices and smoothies with powdered vegetable proteins. 

I snack on nuts but I found that shelled nuts were too easy to chow on so I switch to nuts in the shell. That way I take longer to eat a few plus I eat them with a full glass of water. That way I'm satisfy my hunger without overeating. 

I row about 1.5 hours a week and walk about 15 miles a week. I'm currently not doing any strength training and strictly focusing on weight reduction. I do some body resistance training to maintain.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Poe4soul said:


> I'm about 3-4lbs a week right now. Started the week before thanksgiving about 205 and now below 185. Target it mid 170's. Then I'll switch my focus back to strength training and re-incorporating the starches and some wheat back into the deit.
> 
> I basically cut all sugar, alcohol, wheat, and soy. Oh, I forgot dairy but I'd pretty much given that up over a year ago. I rarely eat starches. Basically have a shake/smoothie for b-fast. Usually a vegetable based juice. Eat a solid meal for lunch being mostly cooked of fresh leafy greens or cruciferous vegetables, beans or wild rice and about 4-6 oz of cold water fish (salmon, halibut, tuna, mackerel, sardines, etc.) or lamb. Dinner is usually a homemade vegetable soup (no pasta and only wild rice). If I'm lazy, late, or have too much going on, I'll juice at night. I supplement my juices and smoothies with powdered vegetable proteins.
> 
> ...


3-4 lbs a week is a bunch of weight. The general rule of thumb is no more than 1-2 lbs a week if you want to keep it off.

However nice results!


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## Poe4soul (Nov 18, 2012)

DeeZee said:


> 3-4 lbs a week is a bunch of weight. The general rule of thumb is no more than 1-2 lbs a week if you want to keep it off.
> 
> However nice results!


I agree. I expect a bounce at the end of this cleanse and when I re-introduce some of the starches back into the diet. I do know that some of it is a loss of inflammation and water weight from not eating starches. I'm pretty sure I'm mildly allergic, or at least sensitive, to gluten. I also pretty sure if I keep dairy and wheat out of the diet, I can keep it off. That said, the last 3 weeks, about 10 lbs, was about elimination of allergens and I didn't care about the weight. The best part is I feel better than I have in years. The weight loss is just a bonus.


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