# fork sag on a hardtail



## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

ive looked everywhere and still have not found my answer. i know how to set it but what is the point of it? is it absolutely necessary for me to do? anybody ride with no sag at all?


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## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

just experiment with it. i think it depends on the conditions. however, if you don't run sag you are more likely not to use all of the travel efficiently. i feel you want to keep your bars as level as possible and let the tire adhere to ups and downs of the terrain. the better you tune your suspension the faster you can go. :thumbsup:

here is the fox tutorial about fine tuning you fork or shock. some good info.

http://www.foxracingshox.com/protune/forks.php

http://www.foxracingshox.com/protune/shocks.php


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

just because its a hard tail doesn't magically mean that the fork works differently.

Set up sag just like you would on any other bike, to suit your style and what you are riding.

Esp on a hard tail you might appreciate a fork that is plush to give your wrists a break.


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

Do you want your bike to track well and have traction up front?


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

thanks aliikane, thats just what i was looking for, ill give it a try


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

apparently u shouldnt have the lock out set when you do this....yea. i just ordered a fork pump. my bike looks gangster with me on it with its inch of travel oops. i gotta pay more attention sometimes. lol


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## grnbkr (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm going to pull the odd one out card on this one here. When setting up the suspension on a hardtail I avoid sag at all costs, and keep the fork stiff enough so that under hard breaking it doesn't compress and go into its travel. Why do I do this you might ask??? Answer here.
With a hardtail, you want the bike to ride flat, like you would want a full suspension bike to ride, if, on a hardtail, you set up the fork with "proper" sag the head angle will become really steep whenever you hit the brakes, by setting the fork up stiffer so it rides higher in its travel you will maintain the handling the bike was designed to have. For example if you have a long travel hardtail, with a big fork (like over 120mm) and set it up with the typical 30% sag, the fork will dive heavily under breaking, and through technical trails and drops it will use too much travel. Because only the front is moving you end up riding a bike with a 75 degree or steeper head angle, when you would want to keep the fork up in its travel to keep the head angle good and slack, and the bottom bracket out of the rocks.

Personally I try to avoid hardtails designed around the new crop of 140mm+ travel suspension forks, or if I do find myself riding one of these bikes I will use one of the Chris King extended headset races to get the axle to crown measurement of the fork closer to that of a longer fork. With the longer crown race, I will set the fork up as described above, just stiff enough so that it doesn't move under hard breaking.

Recently I have been using increased low speed compression damping as a substitute for really high preload, this has allowed me to lower the air pressure in the fork, or run softer springs while keeping the fork high in its travel. With a properly setup 120mm fork on a hardtail, I will use about 3/4 of the travel if I am riding somewhere like highland. When at highland I will bring the hardtail down every trail there, keeping up with people on their full on downhill bikes. 

Hope this helped!
Matt


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## Techfreak (Feb 17, 2005)

I run a Sinister Ridge with a 160mm Lyrik. While I agree that the setup is generally stiffer on a hard tail, the sag should be set properly. Somewhere in the 25% range is good, at least for where I ride (the Shore and Whistler). With no sag, why not just save money and run a rigid fork? Really.

Too little sag and the fork will not track properly at all. It will deflect off of things rather than holding a proper line. Too much and it will dive like mad (see grnbkr's post), corner like crap, and bottom out too often. I use low speed compression to dial out the dive that grnbkr mentions (I HATE when my fork dives - even led me to get rid of my Pike because I could not get it to stop diving). Not every fork has this adjustment, but it sure is useful to have both high and low speed compression settings.


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

i have a 55 tst 2, so i only have the lock out and rebound to work with. does anyone know if the lock out is a high speed or low speed dampener? it has varying degrees of dampening. just dont know which one it is.


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## SuspectDevice (Apr 12, 2004)

grnbkr said:


> I'm going to pull the odd one out card on this one here. When setting up the suspension on a hardtail I avoid sag at all costs, and keep the fork stiff enough so that under hard breaking it doesn't compress and go into its travel. Why do I do this you might ask??? Answer here.
> With a hardtail, you want the bike to ride flat, like you would want a full suspension bike to ride, if, on a hardtail, you set up the fork with "proper" sag the head angle will become really steep whenever you hit the brakes, by setting the fork up stiffer so it rides higher in its travel you will maintain the handling the bike was designed to have. For example if you have a long travel hardtail, with a big fork (like over 120mm) and set it up with the typical 30% sag, the fork will dive heavily under breaking, and through technical trails and drops it will use too much travel. Because only the front is moving you end up riding a bike with a 75 degree or steeper head angle, when you would want to keep the fork up in its travel to keep the head angle good and slack, and the bottom bracket out of the rocks.
> 
> Personally I try to avoid hardtails designed around the new crop of 140mm+ travel suspension forks, or if I do find myself riding one of these bikes I will use one of the Chris King extended headset races to get the axle to crown measurement of the fork closer to that of a longer fork. With the longer crown race, I will set the fork up as described above, just stiff enough so that it doesn't move under hard breaking.
> ...


This dude is on top of it. Sag on a HT is dependent on riding style. I like my fork to skip over the tops of things on a hardtail just like on my FS bikes. If I want to use some travel I smash the wheel into something. The faster you go and the more advanced your handling skills are the less sag you will likely run. A beginner rider or a rider that rides slower, flatter terrain will enjoy more travel. A nice stiff fork allows you to pump and pre-jump more effectively, and with the right damping settings you have the right suspension for hard touchdowns and big holes you can't readily avoid. With a fork that is too soft, be it spring rate or lack of damping you loose chasis stability quite significantly. Precision is one of the main reasons I like to ride DH on my slalom bike and if the front end is stuck to the ground while the rear end is bouncing around it really bums me out. 
Disclaimer- I do most of my crashing OTB on climbs when I hook my front wheel on something when I'm dropping the throttle up a step tech bit.


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## mfrench2013 (Jun 20, 2010)

ive been riding with no sag for a while (started on a dj1) and it hasn't bothered me much at all. from what you guys say i think i might try around 10% first.



SuspectDevice said:


> This dude is on top of it. Sag on a HT is dependent on riding style. I like my fork to skip over the tops of things on a hardtail just like on my FS bikes. If I want to use some travel I smash the wheel into something. The faster you go and the more advanced your handling skills are the less sag you will likely run. A beginner rider or a rider that rides slower, flatter terrain will enjoy more travel. A nice stiff fork allows you to pump and pre-jump more effectively, and with the right damping settings you have the right suspension for hard touchdowns and big holes you can't readily avoid. With a fork that is too soft, be it spring rate or lack of damping you loose chasis stability quite significantly. Precision is one of the main reasons I like to ride DH on my slalom bike and if the front end is stuck to the ground while the rear end is bouncing around it really bums me out.
> Disclaimer- I do most of my crashing OTB on climbs when I hook my front wheel on something when I'm dropping the throttle up a step tech bit.


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## Monk_Knight (Aug 1, 2008)

One thing that people don't really realize a lot of times is the concept of negative travel. When you hit a raised bump or rock in the trail, you use positive travel -- that is that the fork compresses from the sag point onwards. When you hit a dip or depression in a trail (say a brake bump or a hole in a rock garden) then the fork extends downwards from the sag point to fill that hole before compressing to absorb it. 

This is what sag is designed for. If you run no sag at all then your whole front end will dip into the dip before bouncing back up. With good sag then it will keep riding more or less level.

There is definitely something to be said for running stiffer suspension to skip over the rough stuff, but no sag at all is pretty silly.


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## blades-noob (Oct 12, 2009)

mfrench2013 said:


> i have a 55 tst 2, so i only have the lock out and rebound to work with. does anyone know if the lock out is a high speed or low speed dampener? it has varying degrees of dampening. just dont know which one it is.


your fork has preload aswell (all forks have preload)
i will quickly explain something about suspension:

compression: how fast the suspension compresses.
rebound: how fast the suspension decompresses.
preload: how hard the suspension is, what most people don't realise is you should only use preload to set your sag and then you should compression and rebound.
lock out: is exactly what it is, it locks out your suspension


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