# To go with the free tubes: some almost jigless tooling



## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

I just finished posting some instructions to the setup I used building my first couple of frames.

It's kind of finicky, awfully low tech, but fast and cheap to get started. And as I mention over and over, it's an extension to the techniques outlined in the Paterek Manual.

 Almost Jigless Bicycle Frame Building 

This might give the winner some ideas on how to get started.


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## Ttwo (Dec 29, 2007)

Awesome information !!  

Thanks


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

dr.welby said:


> I just finished posting some instructions to the setup I used building my first couple of frames.
> 
> It's kind of finicky, awfully low tech, but fast and cheap to get started. And as I mention over and over, it's an extension to the techniques outlined in the Paterek Manual.
> 
> ...


dr.w-

I plan on making the "T" shape version with bolts for tube leveling. Would (the thicker) 3x3" angle iron be wide/sturdy enough? I can get this at the builder supply (long business hours). Would need to go to the steel supply across town at lunch rft: to get the bigger stuff.


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## MichauxYeti (Nov 10, 2005)

I'm seriously considering building a fixture like this for my first (and next several) frame. I had a question regarding the T fixture though...

In lugless construction, what is the best way to set the relationship between the head tube and the bottom bracket? It would seem that in a traditional road frame with 73/73 geometry the angles could be set with a simple carpenter's square. But if the angle iron along the seat tube is called the Y axis and the extension to the head tube the X axis, what sets the coordinates of the head tube? Do you take measurements off of a paper drawing along the plane of the bottom of the head tube from centerline to centerline and the intersection of that plane to the center of the bottom bracket?


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

shiggy said:


> dr.w-
> 
> I plan on making the "T" shape version with bolts for tube leveling. Would (the thicker) 3x3" angle iron be wide/sturdy enough?


That's the size I used. Should work fine.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

MichauxYeti said:


> In lugless construction, what is the best way to set the relationship between the head tube and the bottom bracket? It would seem that in a traditional road frame with 73/73 geometry the angles could be set with a simple carpenter's square. But if the angle iron along the seat tube is called the Y axis and the extension to the head tube the X axis, what sets the coordinates of the head tube? Do you take measurements off of a paper drawing along the plane of the bottom of the head tube from centerline to centerline and the intersection of that plane to the center of the bottom bracket?


If you really want to locate it, You can set the head tube by measuring the perpendicular distance from the seat tube centerline to the head tube rear face at the top of the T-piece. To do this you will need to draw your frame full scale on paper, draw it in CAD, or do some geometry. You also will want to figure out and mark where on the base piece you are clamping your bottom bracket so that the head tube ends up located over the T extension. That T-extension becomes a sort of reference plane.

Then I would mark out that distance on the extension, and clamp a cheap T-square there. Load up your head tube in the head tube piece and locate it against the T-square, then with an adjustable protractor set the head tube piece at the differential in angle. So if your bike is 70 head angle, 73 seat angle you would set the head tube piece at 3 degrees from perpendicular to the T-piece (87 and 93 degrees).

Once you have that set and clamped, you can then adjust the position of the head tube on its axis by measuring it relative to the T extension.

Of course, it would probably be easier to just make a simple copy of your full-scale drawing, just showing the position of the seat and head tubes, and cutting it out and taping it to the jig. Then clamp everything in place on top of the paper and right before you braze just tear off the loose paper.

You can also locate everything just with your mitered tubes (as it's done in the Paterek manual and is loosely described in the rest of my Instructable). Tack the seat tube to the bottom bracket, and also the head tube to the down tube. Then load the two pieces into the jig. Put the down tube miter against the BB and rotate it around the BB until you have the right angle between seat and down tubes. Double check by measuring where your top tube will drop in place. If that looks good, tack that joint, then fit up your top tube. Or if you're confident about your miters, just miter the top tube and drop it in to locate everything. Clamp down the head tube piece, level it out, and tack it all up.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

dr.welby said:


> Then I would mark out that distance on the extension, and clamp a cheap T-square there.


Now that I think about it, if the angle iron you use for the head tube piece is tall enough that it goes past the centerline of the frame, I'd measure out the perpendicular distance along the extension to the front of the head tube plus the wall thickness of the angle iron, and use that distance to position the piece.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

dr.welby said:


> That's the size I used. Should work fine.


Thank you. I will report my results.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

shiggy said:


> Thank you. I will report my results.


I nearly have my _Almost-a-Jig_ finished. Just need to add the tube leveling bolts.








I made a few changes. Made a tripod stand from scrap tubing. The upright is 1.5" and can be replaced with a shorter piece to clamp in a stand. The jig can be rotated on the tube.








Made the BB shell clamp easier to use and harder to lose. Brazed the cap/plate to the C-clamp and brazed a large washer to the inside to locate it securely.
Used angle stock for the dummy axle for added stiffness.








The head tube holder has a piece of angle added to the back for clamping. I had notched it as shown in the instructable guide but could not see how to clamp it without interfering with the head tube.

The first frame I will build with it is being detailed in this thread on Frameforum.org


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

shiggy said:


> The head tube holder has a piece of angle added to the back for clamping. I had notched it as shown in the instructable guide but could not see how to clamp it without interfering with the head tube.


Shiggy is a trailblazer here in that the T-jig has never been built before. I had hoped that the C-clamp would work with the notch if the C-clamp was small enough and turned upside down from the way it is oriented in the picture. However, Shiggy's modification with the extra piece on the backside is just about perfect and in the end far easier than grinding out a notch.

Some of the other mods are really great too. I really like the execution of the BB clamp.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Shiggy:

Can you put a built frame in that and include a pic so we can see how it works?

Thanks Looks Great!


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

dr.welby said:


> Shiggy is a trailblazer here in that the T-jig has never been built before. I had hoped that the C-clamp would work with the notch if the C-clamp was small enough and turned upside down from the way it is oriented in the picture. However, Shiggy's modification with the extra piece on the backside is just about perfect and in the end far easier than grinding out a notch.
> 
> Some of the other mods are really great too. I really like the execution of the BB clamp.


Thank you. Feel free to include any or all of my mods (and pics) in your instructable.

I will post in-use pics later.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

NEPMTBA said:


> Shiggy:
> 
> Can you put a built frame in that and include a pic so we can see how it works?
> 
> Thanks Looks Great!


Not sure a complete frame will fit in it, except in the final stay fab position. I also do not have a bare frame laying around.

Here is a quick and dirty idea of how it works
BB shell clamped vertically at left








BB shell clamped as in pic


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

shiggy said:


> Thank you. Feel free to include any or all of my mods (and pics) in your instructable.
> 
> I will post in-use pics later.


Almost ready to start cutting tubes and tacking the frame.

I drilled and tapped the angle iron for the tube leveling bolts. Used 8x1.25 cap screws (6mm allen head for easy adjustment. The washer and nut under will let me lock the bolts in position after setting the tube height. I drilled more holes than I thought I may needed and it is easy to add more in other locations.

This is where the first tube (usually the seat tube) would be setup for tacking to the BB shell.






















And the head tube "jig."















The welder's magnets look to do a good job at holding the tubes but spring clamps work, too. May use them if the magnets seem wobbly.

Also thinking it would be easy to do stems on this, too.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Just guessing, but I`d say you`re probably better off with the magnets. Whenever I try to grab round material with any kind of clamps the roundstock always wants to roll as soon as it gets a little pressure against it. I wouldn`t want it to go rolling up the face of the angle iron just as I was about to start tacking. I like your jig- makes a lot more sense to me than shelling out for (and storing) aluminum extrusions considering how doubtful it is that I`ll ever build more than a handfull of frames.


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## discodave (Jan 12, 2004)

*Great!!*

Great stuff shiggy!! keep the pictures coming:thumbsup:


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

rodar y rodar said:


> Just guessing, but I`d say you`re probably better off with the magnets. Whenever I try to grab round material with any kind of clamps the roundstock always wants to roll as soon as it gets a little pressure against it. I wouldn`t want it to go rolling up the face of the angle iron just as I was about to start tacking. I like your jig- makes a lot more sense to me than shelling out for (and storing) aluminum extrusions considering how doubtful it is that I`ll ever build more than a handfull of frames.


I have already tried the spring clamp on the head tube. Holds the tube to the vertical surface VERY securely.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

discodave said:


> Great stuff shiggy!! keep the pictures coming:thumbsup:


dave, have you checked the thread on frameforum? (link in my 1st Almost-a-Jig reply)


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

A few in-use pics. I have brazed the DT and ST to the BB shell so far.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

shiggy said:


> A few in-use pics. I have brazed the DT and ST to the BB shell so far.


Brazed joint





























Steve Garro of Coconino Cycles has provided advice and most of a tubeset for this build


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## Ttwo (Dec 29, 2007)

*Nice work*

Nice work shiggy. Have you brazed before or is this your first time? Your work looks pro.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Ttwo said:


> Nice work shiggy. Have you brazed before or is this your first time? Your work looks pro.


Thanks, getting better all the time.
I have been brazing for about a year. This is my second frame and I have made a few stems.


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