# Frame Design Flaws - Mach 6v3, Ghost Riot, and more to watch out for



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

This is the upper link of the Mach 6v3. The linkage catches pebbles from the tire and the aluminum link grinds them against the frame carbon. Pivot put a cute rubber apron over the lower link, but they forgot all about the upper one. Whenever you see this model of bike for sale, get a pic of this area before making a buying decision.











Ghost Riot antisquat. Usually we're complaining that a bike doesn't have enough antisquat, but how much is too much? Ghost answers this question by giving their Riot a ridiculous amount that apparently causes pedal bob. The blue line is in the biggest cog. If you're pedaling in the middle of the cassette it's like 150% at sag, worse into the travel. credit: linkagedesign.blogspot.com











Intense Recluse - now this is something I've found a few bikes with, low tire rear tire clearance at the chainstay. Put a 2.4 tire on this bike and if you live in a rocky area, little pebbles that get stuck between the knobs will shred the carbon on the chain stays. That can't be good for them.










Scor 4060 ST - The "cradle of filth". All new bike companies have to contend with building an institutional knowledge of the dos and donts of frame building. Looks like they missed the installation of a drain hole below the shock, which is impeded by the location of the SCWAT box. 











And speaking of the dos and dont's of frame building, we have the Revel Ranger, insanely close clearance between the chainring and frame for no reason whatsoever. This is a Shimano boost crank and the owner had to make some compromises with the spindle length on the nds just to get this much space. What were these guys thinking?


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## coachxtaylor (Feb 13, 2020)

i own two of the bikes on this list 😂😂


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## joecx (Aug 17, 2013)

What , Are you the Ralph Nader Of the MTB world?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Who's Ranger? We know sometimes what people think they have and what they actually have are different.
There's 3 spindle lengths for Shimano XT, 4 if I remember for XTR and it's been discussed on the Ranger thread.

Doesn't make it a design flaw.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Oh, you guys found my thread. I thought it was headed to page 2.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

That Ghost Riot is a complete mess. That antisquat curve is bass ackwards, it should be flat or dropping deeper in the travel. As a result, huge pedal kickback. The leverage rate is also a mess, so progressive all the travel is not usable. No wonder it did so poorly in the Pinkbike comparison.


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## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

Hambini is correct. Some very poor engineering out there.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Yeah, one of the notable ones I experienced was on my old Foes with what was around a 4-5" long bolt that went through the scissor-link and rear shock. The scissor link was a great idea to make a single-pivot swingarm bike stiffer. The problem with this is that it allowed the frame to act as a lever on a super-long bolt through the shock. Other linkage designs of the time, like Turner or even the older Chuck bikes, used a 3-d type linkage where the linkage tapered to allow the shortest possible bolt through the shock. You can up the hardware grade or size, but leverage tends to win out in the end. This was a very special bolt and sold as an assembly, so it became a pain in the ass to constantly deal with the shock/linkage bolt bending. 

I had another bike bend shock bolts due to a similar design issue. So this is something I look at on new frames, although for the most part this is done correctly these days, but super-long bolts should definitely be suspect IME.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

TylerVernon said:


> This is the upper link of the Mach 6v3. The linkage catches pebbles from the tire and the aluminum link grinds them against the frame carbon. Pivot put a cute rubber apron over the lower link, but they forgot all about the upper one. Whenever you see this model of bike for sale, get a pic of this area before making a buying decision.


Same with Ibis.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Cary said:


> That Ghost Riot is a complete mess. That antisquat curve is bass ackwards, it should be flat or dropping deeper in the travel. As a result, huge pedal kickback. The leverage rate is also a mess, so progressive all the travel is not usable. No wonder it did so poorly in the Pinkbike comparison.


Yeah, that was funny during that review, the girl wanted an air shock on the Ghost to make it better. The LR from sag is 2.65-1.5!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

TylerVernon said:


> Yeah, that was funny during that review, the girl wanted an air shock on the Ghost to make it better. The LR from sag is 2.65-1.5!


Wait, you mean to tell me that a person’s subjective view of what is wrong with a suspension could be completely wrong?! Reason 5,367 why having objective data is so helpful. Instead of guessing what is wrong you immediately know: There is no shock in the world that will fix this mess.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

It just needs a regressive coil.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Cary said:


> Wait, you mean to tell me that a person’s subjective view of what is wrong with a suspension could be completely wrong?! Reason 5,367 why having objective data is so helpful. Instead of guessing what is wrong you immediately know: There is no shock in the world that will fix this mess.


Just a reminder, isn't that the saem guy that said the Missing Link from Tantrum would bottom out going off a curb.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

TylerVernon said:


> It just needs a regressive coil.


Nah, just ride it with a blown shock. 

The last time I saw a leverage rate like that was on this thing:






Intense 951 EVO 2013


En esta entrada voy a analizar a la Intense 951 Evo, el primer cuadro de DH con ruedas de 650B que ha salido a venta este año. Este modelo ...




linkagedesign.blogspot.com


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

TwoTone said:


> Just a reminder, isn't that the saem guy that said the Missing Link from Tantrum would bottom out going off a curb.


He wasn't totally wrong; I could see it blowing through travel in the videos.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

TwoTone said:


> There's 3 spindle lengths for Shimano XT, 4 if I remember for XTR and it's been discussed on the Ranger thread.
> 
> Doesn't make it a design flaw.


M9020-B


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

TylerVernon said:


> He wasn't totally wrong; I could see it blowing through travel in the videos.


Goes against what anyone that's actually ridden one has to say.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Well, I have eyes.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Isn't SCOR actually BMC? They should know better.


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## gocat (Feb 27, 2012)

TylerVernon said:


> This is the upper link of the Mach 6v3. The linkage catches pebbles from the tire and the aluminum link grinds them against the frame carbon. Pivot put a cute rubber apron over the lower link, but they forgot all about the upper one. Whenever you see this model of bike for sale, get a pic of this area before making a buying decision.
> 
> View attachment 1962907
> 
> ...


 Too late now, but I use to have a Mach 6. I installed a rear fender. Worked out really well. I think it was a muck nuts frt fender with Velcro straps.


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