# Arrrrgh F*#@*n newbies!!



## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

I don't know the answer to this ... there probably isn't one, so this is just a rant... and seeing as I haven't been around for awhile, I deserve to have one...  


went for a toodle around Gap Creek this morning... my mate pulled out of our Cootha ride so I decided to just cruise over to Vietnam, Bronwyns and back via a 'cough, cough' tracks on the other side...


So noticed that Vietnam is getting wider and wider as people are doing B lines around difficult bits and bloody great locked rear tyre grooves just waiting to erode some more... no doubt it will be sanitised soon under the guise of conservation or too dangerous or whatever...  
I honestly have no idea how to stop this though so.... :idea: .... and I know most of the guys here are good riders (cause I have ridden with most of you) so don't think I am having a swing...


But the hanky really came out when I got to the bottom of Bronwyns ... The log jummp at the bottom has been sanitised with a chainsaw! :madman: 

I know a newbie OTB'd recently (see that other site) and had to be choppered out so maybe that had something to do with it... but forchristsake, it had a B line and everything - surely most people are going to do the right thing! Just cause some fvckstick can't ride does it mean we all have to be penalised! :madmax: 

Where is it going to end! A broom at the end of trails to clean up after you ride them!!


On the good side I do notice my favourite trails are not used as much and the people using them seem to know what the funny long lever on the right of the bars is used for... :thumbsup: 

thought I'd end with a positive!!


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

Not everyone rides a 6 inch travel lounge suite on modest trails EP. (hehe)

Then again you do make things more difficult for yourself by using those uber flexy triple clamp Ducs that were bagged so badly in 2 tests in the latest AMB. (rolf, where are the emoticons when you need them?)

Answer to your question though? I don't know if there is one.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Yeah it’s bloody frustrating. Apart from trail widening, putting rocks around fallen logs seems to be popular here.

If possible you could try and amour the trail around the more technical sections (either rocks / logs etc to create a visual edge for the trail), but usually those that can’t ride these kinds of sections won’t pay attention to the edge of the trail anyway.

User education is the key, but that’s usually impossible unless you can put up signs at the trail head. I assume you’re in the familiar situation where if the trail owners / management are alerted then the whole trail will likely become a concrete smooth super highway.

I can’t think of anything else that you could try. There are plenty of great resources on the IMBA website, but I’m assuming you don’t have access to work on these trails anyway.

I hope it works out, Dave.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

cruz said:


> Not everyone rides a 6 inch travel lounge suite on modest trails EP. (hehe).


Yes it is true I ride in comfort  but only so I can wave in a proper royal style to you poor chaps on hardtails (anytime you want to come and ride with us with your kneekiller let me know :thumbsup:  )



cruz said:


> Then again you do make things more difficult for yourself by using those uber flexy triple clamp Ducs that were bagged so badly in 2 tests in the latest AMB. (rolf, where are the emoticons when you need them?)


I have the latest AMB and no mention. A few issues a go they had a *great report *on them - attached to a Heckler and a Ventana if my memory serves me correctly. You got caught out bagging a Quake a few threads ago - you're not having senior moments already are you? ut: :devil: (PS I know you know that you have to have a significantly heavier fork to get the same stiffness as the magnesium DUC's and you are just being a smartarse  )



cruz said:


> Answer to your question though? I don't know if there is one.


..perhaps a lifesize cut out of your good self at the top of the track... :idea: with an appropriate voice over from a loudspeaker in a nearby tree? :devil: that would scare the little bastards anyway :band:


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## top_dog (Jul 22, 2005)

Electric Panda said:


> But the hanky really came out when I got to the bottom of Bronwyns ... The log jummp at the bottom has been sanitised with a chainsaw! :madman:


Is that the Northshore thing near the creek or something else?


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## Neildy (May 8, 2006)

Not the new structure, a log jump on the track out to the fireroad.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Low_Rider said:


> Yeah it's bloody frustrating. Apart from trail widening, putting rocks around fallen logs seems to be popular here.
> 
> If possible you could try and amour the trail around the more technical sections (either rocks / logs etc to create a visual edge for the trail), but usually those that can't ride these kinds of sections won't pay attention to the edge of the trail anyway.
> 
> ...


Dave, we are desperately trying NOT to get trail care/IMBA techniques involved. We have enough footpaths as it is. I know IMBA mean well but the result, generally, is a boring ride. :nono:

Have a look at the 2nd part of the post. These guys chainsawed a perfectly good log jump! 

You will notice my Compatriot in age related Wisdom, the very accomplished Mr MC Cruz, has gone and got himself a hardtail to get a bit of a thrill when riding these sanitised tracks. TR is riding a fully rigid - but that is cause he's trying to be cool (I suspect he was beaten as a child :devil: )


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

I’m not trying to argue, and I don’t really have a full idea of what’s happening with you guys up your way so please don’t take my following comments the wrong way! 

I can see how an accident like you mentioned (likely covered by the media too?) could trigger such a tail feature to be removed, and that’s unfortunate. I’m just wondering though, are these guys who are working on your local trails actually involved with IMBA or have done any IMBA / Trail Care schools? 

Why I ask is because while I too don’t fully agree with all of IMBA’s ideas, I attended an IMBA trail school late last year and have ridden a few trails that have been built following their ideas and techniques pretty closely. These trails are far from being smooth boring rides, and are filled with technical features. From my interpretation of what I learnt I can see that you could easily build a super highway rather then a decent trail and indeed some of the slides we were shown by IMBA were just that. But as I mentioned, in reality you can still build awesome trails following IMBA ideas. :thumbsup:

So more to the point (because I’ve been ignorant and haven’t read some of the trail related threads that have been posted by you guys previously), who’s land are these trails actually on, and who’s actually doing the maintenance side of things? Do you as riders have any input at all?

Dave.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

No worries Dave, I apologise if my post came across a bit strong.

to answer a few questions. A lot of us have been to the IMBA dude's talks and trail days. 

There are technical features that may be interesting to a beginner but not anyone else.

This land is State Forest. And there is a couple of trail care crews working this area. The Gap Creek crew, who build Bronwyns, have done a great job especially considering the constraints. It wasn't them that adjusted the log jump, rather the BSF management. But to be fair BSF management has a lot of competing interests as well.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

> No worries Dave, I apologise if my post came across a bit strong.


Not it wasn't at all, I was just warning you that mine may be a little off-track.


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

Electric Panda said:


> Yes it is true I ride in comfort  but only so I can wave in a proper royal style to you poor chaps on hardtails (anytime you want to come and ride with us with your kneekiller let me know :thumbsup:  )
> 
> *I have the latest AMB and no mention*. A few issues a go they had a *great report *on them - attached to a Heckler and a Ventana if my memory serves me correctly. You got caught out bagging a Quake a few threads ago - you're not having senior moments already are you? ut: :devil: (PS I know you know that you have to have a significantly heavier fork to get the same stiffness as the magnesium DUC's and you are just being a smartarse  ):


Um, did you read the test on the Nomad and Maverick? And yes you are right that only a couple of issues ago they raved about the same fork on those other frames. Makes you wonder. 

Page 39 Quote. ' Duc 32 fork is incredibly light but suffers from a real lack of lateral rigidity. The fork still deplects terribly over rough terrain ...The fork spewed oil from day one as the flex rendered the seals useless.

Pafe 41  Quote. 'The great frame (Nomad) is let down by flexy forks which destroy rider confidence.'

The Whyte lounge does give you that ability to perfect the Royal Wave though.


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## bigdamo (Jun 11, 2004)

I see Canberra has got there trails worked out.At Sparrow hill there are quite a few choices of trails with different levels of skill on certain trails.Alot of it was buff smooth with some sections of rock gardens to make it interesting but i would have to say it was some of the best riding I've done.I guess it is who your working with(land management)how much effort people put in and the terrain you got to work with.It would be interesting to find out how much tourism the MTB trails pull in for Canberra as i know a few people go down there from Sydney for 2-7 days and MTBing is a big part of there stay.I also wonder why know one has has started a Mtb resort/park.I went to a motopark a couple of times on my Moto.It was at Oberon on a private farm which they had a pine tree plantation on 1000 acres similar to Sparrow hill with one way trails every where which where graded for different skill levels.They had built guest accommodation on site with cooking facility's and on Saturday night they would cook up the best roast dinner it was all ways booked out.


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## whataboutben (Oct 6, 2005)

They have sanitised a huge section of Bantry Bay loop under the premise that the erosion is too bad? I dont get it, most of that section is rock slab.

The council stopped the clubs doing track maintenance days and now they say it wont re open unless there is maintenance. Talk about hypocritcal *&#@'s.


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

The log jump was removed because it is a multi-use trail and poorly built jumps with no back side have no place there. 

I consider a sign at the top and a dodgy log jump removed a not the worst outcome. With 2 spinal injuries and airlifts plus another ground based ambulances taking people off this trail I consider I am holding my nerve well. A less committed land manager would have canned the whole trail.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Electric Panda said:


> TR is riding a fully rigid - but that is cause he's trying to be cool (I suspect he was beaten as a child :devil: )


I am F'n cool!!!

 (at myself)


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

hey ho, we are chatting on two boards at the same time!! cool!


so that jump was adjusted so it could be rolled a month or three ago?! Or, by a back side do you mean it has to be rideable both ways?


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Oppy said:


> The log jump was removed because it is a multi-use trail and poorly built jumps with no back side have no place there.
> 
> I consider a sign at the top and a dodgy log jump removed a not the worst outcome. With 2 spinal injuries and airlifts plus another ground based ambulances taking people off this trail I consider I am holding my nerve well. A less committed land manager would have canned the whole trail.


Then again Oppy the Nundah Crit circuit claimed 2 collar bones, 5 broken ribs and a concussion on Saturday.
No mention of further sanitisation needed there.
Gotta wonder why the double standard?!?!?!?!


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

Multiuse trails are for all users. It is not appropriate to have a mountain bike specific feature on a multi-use trail. After this was highlighted as a safety issue and inappropriate on a multi-use trail there was no good justification to keep it. Jumps and stunts and other technical trail features (ttf's) can and have been built on mountain bike only trails. This is an appropriate place for them. It takes a lot of effort to build good ttf's and we are learning as we go. It's now 2 years since the first trail care day. The volunteers who come regularly are now more skilled and require less supervision and achieve more. We have fixed many of the environmental issues that were asked of the mountain bikers as part of the deal to have designated trails. In the future there will come a time when we move form the major realignment and reconstruction phase into a maintenance and improvement phase. It is still critical that Trail Care maintain it's current focus to validate that mountain bike riding can be done sustainably and managed effectively. 

There is a organised campaign of professional lobby green groups who are saying that mountain bike riding at Mt Coot-tha is a failure causing wide spread degradation harm to wildlife and posses a major safety risk. This is of course BS but I have to be able to justify without question what I am doing. 

When all we have to do is the small amount of maintenance sustainable trails require we will have a lot more time to spend purely on technical features.


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

TR said:


> Then again Oppy the Nundah Crit circuit claimed 2 collar bones, 5 broken ribs and a concussion on Saturday.
> No mention of further sanitisation needed there.
> Gotta wonder why the double standard?!?!?!?!


livin on the EDGE TR dude!! wild and crazy stuff....was it caused by your inability to master the corners


It is a pity that the log jump went, rather than have a back side built up (rather like......), but Oppy simply has the dodge the bullets to keep things improving, and that really was a potential land-mine for liability if he hadn't acted in some way....


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

TR said:


> Gotta wonder why the double standard?!?!?!?!


Mountain bike riding should be an entirely justifiable activity in it's own right. The poor preformance of other activities is not a good justification.


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

It was removed weeks ago, Dry your eye's and get over it


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

cam-i-am said:


> livin on the EDGE TR dude!! wild and crazy stuff....was it caused by your inability to master the corners


Not me cam, but someone obviously had NFI.

Oppy, militant green groups will have an issue with ANY use of green areas.
There is no pleasing those freaks so it is not even worth trying.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Oppy said:


> Mountain bike riding should be an entirely justifiable activity in it's own right. The poor preformance of other activities is not a good justification.


Not sure what to make of that comment Oppy?!?!?!?
I suppose what I am saying is that we have a near perfectly frlat surface at Nundah Crits and can still have these sorts of injuries occur.
What does council expect??
Do they want to build similar trails for MTB and excxpect to cut the injury toll??
Not likely.
They could bitumen/concrete the whole lot and install foam rubber the whole way along and we would still have accidents.


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

There are many double standards that are being applied to mountain bike riding. Environmental Impact, safety, user behaviour, are the ones that spring to mind. Just because say walkers shortcut doesn't justify mountain bike riders doing it. With injuries there has to be an individual risk assesment for MTB riding and descisions made from that not what injuries another activity has. Collar bones, broken ribs and even a concussion are not as serious as neck and spinal injuries. The consequence of failure for a TTF should be a low grade injury not a potential fatality or permanent disability. 


"militant green groups will have an issue with ANY use of green areas.
There is no pleasing those freaks so it is not even worth trying."

I know this, but you are not obligated to respond to them like I am. It frustrates me greatly that the views and ideas of professional land managers are simply ignored by politicians because a granny writes a letter to the Lord Mayor. I am working hard internally to get a rational outcome. I am battling eco/green groups for a middle ground solution. Mountain bikers wanting technical trail features need also to keep in mind that a middle ground solution is a win win. We may not have our own whistler but at least we have some where to ride on single track with features. I don't want a return to the bad old days.


A trail care program and mountain bike trails were first suggested in BCC in 1996 for whites hill but was shut down by policians who were lobbied by green groups.

Imagine where we would be today had that happened. Let us not wait another 10 years by getting this wrong.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Yes Oppy
I agree that broken ribs and concussion are not the same as spinal injury but I would also say that a large part of this difference is dumb luck.
Having been at the criterium and having seen the accident that lead to the broken ribs and concussion could easily have lead to a spinal.
After all we had a 4 persson pile up which resulted in at least one rider flying through the air and landing on the back of his head.
The broken ribs were in the back so obviously it could have been far worse.

As far as I am concerned there is no difference.
Accidents happen.
Sometimes you get lucky and get away with minor scrapes or less on a particularly technical trail and some people have ended up paralysed or dead walking out their front door.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

TR said:


> Not me cam, but someone obviously had NFI.
> 
> Oppy, militant green groups will have an issue with ANY use of green areas.
> There is no pleasing those freaks so it is not even worth trying.


....Who you callin' a freak white boy...

FYI... Earth First! and Captain Watson are bigger than Led Zep in this tree huggers old-growth-woodchips-free book... :nono:


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

I like dirt


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Oppy said:


> The log jump was removed because it is a multi-use trail and poorly built jumps with no back side have no place there.
> 
> I consider a sign at the top and a dodgy log jump removed a not the worst outcome. With 2 spinal injuries and airlifts plus another ground based ambulances taking people off this trail I consider I am holding my nerve well. A less committed land manager would have canned the whole trail.


I don't live in you'alls neck of the woods, but I would be willing to say that the attitude in the post above is the problem.


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## Pitto (Sep 26, 2005)

29Colossus said:


> I don't live in you'alls neck of the woods, but I would be willing to say that the attitude in the post above is the problem.


Dont worry mate, this argument has been going on for years on another forum.
like a bushfire in summer, its flared up again. 

Poor Oppy gets shot from both sides of the fence, and in the end he has a job to do for the BCC. That means doing tasks that will always end in upsetting certain forrestry user groups.

you cant keep everyone happy, all the time. 

G


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

You may be willing, but oh so wrong. A fairly typical mtbers response though.

Not your fault as you do not know the story around all this.


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

Pitto said:


> you cant keep everyone happy, all the time.


Ironically although you can't keep everyone happy all the time, you can keep everyone unhappy all the time. I figure rather than a win win solution perhaps it should be called a lose lose solution everyone is a little unhappy about certain issues however most people are happy with most things.

If you can't have fun riding the tracks at Coot-tha then you don't know how to have fun. Sure it's not Whistler or a world cup DH track but what do you expect its a suburban conservation park 5km from the CBD.

I receive the following complaints:
Less mountain bike tracks
More mountain bike tracks
More open flowing tracks
More tight technical tracks
More North shore
No north shore

I use my best judgement to try to do the best for everyone.

I like to think of this more as a hazard reduction burn rather than a bushfire. 
Reducing the angst by giving reasons even if EP um sorry people don't agree with the answers.


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

Oppy said:


> Sure it's not Whistler or a world cup DH track but what do you expect its a suburban conservation park 5km from the CBD.
> 
> I receive the following complaints:
> Less mountain bike tracks
> ...


what about vending machines in the car park. that'd be sweeeet.
the ground is less shakey over here eh?:thumbsup:


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## Dogtank (May 16, 2006)

Our old friend Cllr Abrahms was in the local paper comparing bush & MTB trails to 'organised vandelism' the other day too (can PM you the whole quote if you're interested Oppy ). A friend who knows the local political situation was saying that her main hope of hanging on to her posn is to get the green vote on her side so expect a lot more to come...:madman:


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## jpg (Dec 30, 2005)

Dogtank said:


> Our old friend Cllr Abrahms was in the local paper comparing bush & MTB trails to 'organised vandelism' the other day too (can PM you the whole quote if you're interested Oppy ). A friend who knows the local political situation was saying that her main hope of hanging on to her posn is to get the green vote on her side so expect a lot more to come...:madman:


And her "Green Bridge" isn't a blight on the landscape ??

A true chameleon - green when it suits....


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

Oh brother ... why did I have spare time and bother to look over the other forum and skim through Dave's helmet and helicopter topic !  what was a picture-story quickly went south with the hyper-sensitive.  Now I understand this topic here.

I'm pretty sure a 5-page topic would result over who chucked a skid on 'x' track on 'y' day ...  

I hear ya EP, the instant reporting of the net does have it's negatives  

I feel for Oppy and know where he stands, I used to work for council as well.

Cam you're such a 'troublemaker' , you don't know '****' :thumbsup: 

TRAIL CARE - there I said it  no banning forthcoming ?


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

I'm going to support the decision to remove that obstacle(I never liked it anyway, but I'm a wussboy...)

But being serious, there has been 4 major accidents there in as many months, we're lucky that someone hasn't lost their life, losing a log is nothing compared to the suffering of losing a life, let's be glad that some responsibility was taken, before a tragedy forced action to be made...


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

Dillon said:


> Cam you're such a 'troublemaker' , you don't know '****' :thumbsup:


I know know the difference between trail care and trail discussion is whether you only love all the changes/ features on a trail...once you take a view that brings into question decisions then it cannot be discussed.

Gosh Oppy, it must be good to return to a bit of the old toe-to-toe eh? Good practice for you and council:thumbsup: 
ps- visited an old haunt of yours with NWR on Saturday, where the rocks are white...bloody fun!


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

NoWay Ray said:


> I'm going to support the decision to remove that obstacle(I never liked it anyway, but I'm a wussboy...)
> 
> But being serious, there has been 4 major accidents there in as many months, we're lucky that someone hasn't lost their life, losing a log is nothing compared to the suffering of losing a life, let's be glad that some responsibility was taken, before a tragedy forced action to be made...


Ray
Read my previous post.
Logs do not kill people.
People kill people.


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

At the previous weekends trail care at Gap Creek I mentioned to Winner about the decision to have a Gap Creek Chase ride as 2 friends of mine had a problem with one of the chase rides at Bunya a couple of weeks back. It does seem that a few riders do get a bit caught up in the 'race' of it sometimes instead of seeing it as some kind of training ride.

Can anyone explain the comment. "Be it right or wrong, its the plain hard truth." 

It seems some people are very sensitive and require the sanitized and protected surroundings over there. Can't comment on lights, can't comment on chase rides, can't comment on Mangeese, can't comment on trail care and discussion, can't comment on certain races and promoters unless you are a mod, (and haven't even attended the race) can't comment on businesses unless it is a business that isn't a business or is a business that provides things to persons on the site.


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

all people have flaws. sometimes they become moderators.....


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

TR said:


> Ray
> Read my previous post.
> Logs do not kill people.
> People kill people.


So, would that make the people who built the log thingy in the first place, liable for manslaughter, in the event that something tragic had happened???

There is a whole lot of could haves/should haves about the whole thing, let's be thankful that something, although unpopular, was done before we had to reflect upon a different outcome.


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

Dogtank said:


> Our old friend Cllr Abrahms was in the local paper comparing bush & MTB trails to 'organised vandelism' the other day too (can PM you the whole quote if you're interested Oppy ). A friend who knows the local political situation was saying that her main hope of hanging on to her posn is to get the green vote on her side so expect a lot more to come...:madman:


Can you please pm me the quote and source either here or on mtbdirt.

I had better not make any comment.


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

cruz said:


> Gap Creek Chase ride


Aaaargh you and Davos made me read the topic in question :madman: can I have my 5 minutes back please ?


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

_ahhhhh..._...... it is so nice to relax with a beer, slip into something more comfortable, and chat with friends and have good old fashioned slagmatch  ... ...just like in the olden days...  ...at the olden place... :thumbsup:


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Oppy said:


> .....
> 
> I like to think of this more as a hazard reduction burn rather than a bushfire.
> *Reducing the angst by giving reasons even if EP* um sorry people don't agree with the answers.


... and your mother wears army boots!...

...without the laces!!  ... but I see your owl - and raise you an antichinus...


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## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

yeah...... you started it..........nuh, you did.


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## PNW (May 25, 2006)

Cllr Abrahm's has usual been very surpportive of MTB trail at GC, I hope she was quoted out of context as they say.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

cam-i-am said:


> all people have flaws. sometimes they become moderators.....


ROFLMAO :thumbsup:


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

Electric Panda said:


> I see your owl - and raise you an antichinus...


I actually saw a pair of Powerful Owls the other day, one was about 6ft above my head. They are truely awesome to behold close up. They are the wedge tail eagle of the owl world.


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## aaron01 (May 17, 2006)

Dillon said:


> I like dirt


What he said


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## PNW (May 25, 2006)

What about those great new jumps on Bronwyn's.
You win some, you loose some:smallviolin:


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

Who you callin loose ! ?


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Oppy said:


> I actually saw a pair of Powerful Owls the other day, one was about 6ft above my head. They are truely awesome to behold close up. They are the wedge tail eagle of the owl world.


Stop trying to go off topic or we'll ban your @rse... now get back up that pole so we can throw stuff at you...   

..and anyway the last walk the K2 crew did we had one glide past quite close... you have to remember we walk about 2 1/2 to 3 hrs at night around the Cootha trails with packs on... it was about 2hrs in and must have come in at an angle across the leading group of 3... I didn't so much as hear anything as felt movement and then saw it, from the corner of my eye, coming in from my left to our front... all 3 of us hardcore blokes fvcking jumped like girlies. It was massive... I reckon if you were a god botherer you would have sworn that Beelezebub was up and wandering that night...


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

PNW said:


> What about those great new jumps on Bronwyn's.
> You win some, you *loose* some:smallviolin:


You and Ray ought to be comparing each others lycra...

It was a bloody good jump... and there are waterbars that launch you higher...

...maybe...


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

Electric Panda said:


> It was a bloody good jump... and there are waterbars that launch you higher...
> 
> ...maybe...


I'd have thought the Whyte wouldn't be the best bike around for jumping. Wouldn't all that travel just have sucked up that log jump like a speed bump anyway???


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

:skep: 
there is a change afoot...I can feel it in the air.....are we being watched ...sit up straight everyone


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## jimmy L (Oct 16, 2005)

Electric Panda said:


> _ahhhhh..._...... it is so nice to relax with a beer, slip into something more comfortable, and chat with friends and have good old fashioned slagmatch  ... ...just like in the olden days...  ...at the olden place... :thumbsup:


EASY big boy maybe you and Mrs Wyhte should get a room. Take it nice and slow like on this site.

As for the log on the track- why not build a bridge. Plenty of falled down trees around.

Nobody likes a Whinger.


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

PNW said:


> What about those great new jumps on Bronwyn's.
> You win some, you lose some:smallviolin:


The concept was sound the execution was a little lacking as I had to stop what we were doing to help organise a medical evacuation by helicopter. No joke, we were mid trail care day when the first air lift accident happened. I looked up to watch some riders come through and AAAaaaaaahhhgggrrraAAAHHHGGHHFGAGFRU325YRBUPFH9-2!!!

They could be further refined with some more dirt and some more of backside/down ramp. The intent was for small table tops. They cannot have huge holes dug in or around them so the supply of dirt was very limited. We lowered the general area around the jumps by upto 200mm to source the dirt. The extent to which the volunteers were willing to dig limited the size of the jumps. We will at some stage be coming back to them but we have many other more important work to focus on.



Obtuse Panda said:


> It was a bloody good jump... there are waterbars that launch you higher...


Yeah but they are there to control water flow and not soley as a mountain bike jump. I question you definition of good jump. It was an ordinary jump in my opinion.


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

I think Panda Bear wants to test out his ride on some nice big jumps on a DH race track  that's where they're best kept.


----------



## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

Oppy said:


> I question you definition of good jump. It was an ordinary jump in my opinion.


I question your qualification for defining a good jump:skep: 

really, if people want to jump, doesn't the council provide specific facilities for such activities...


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Oppy said:


> Yeah but they are there to control water flow and not soley as a mountain bike jump. I question you definition of good jump. It was an ordinary jump in my opinion.


Maybe it was a good jump compared to some VERY ordinary jumps?!?!?!


----------



## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

Do I recall you TR going OTB on a similiar type of log jump thingy at Bunya a few weeks back???


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

NoWay Ray said:


> Do I recall you TR going OTB on a similiar type of log jump thingy at Bunya a few weeks back???


Nope


----------



## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

TR said:


> Nope


Must have been someone else I nearly ran over then...:thumbsup:


----------



## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

If you read this thread first . I can attest it makes your head spin.
Then I went a lurking at that other place. My God ( or your Deity of choice), The sanitation police are at it again. 
I loved Cam's " face-off" with GPS man:thumbsup: . I can't wait till Cam is banned for being obtuse. 
And Oppy man, I thought you had one of the greatest jobs in MTB. After reading all the crap you need to negoitate from every which direction, I tips me hat to you sir. 
That's all , nothing to see hear, move along.
Oh Yeah Trail Care discussion......... gee it's good to have freedom of speech.


----------



## jimmy L (Oct 16, 2005)

Gordyau said:


> If you read this thread first . I can attest it makes your head spin.
> Then I went a lurking at that other place. My God ( or your Deity of choice), The sanitation police are at it again.
> I loved Cam's " face-off" with GPS man:thumbsup: . I can't wait till Cam is banned for being obtuse.
> And Oppy man, I thought you had one of the greatest jobs in MTB. After reading all the crap you need to negoitate from every which direction, I tips me hat to you sir.
> ...


Freedom of speech if you say so.........

got an idea....... yes you've heard it before ............build a bridge small man. 
All you little girls do is whinge whinge whinge. It's funny how you all danced to the tune when you were at brizmtb and now it's "oh the moderators are pigs, that website dumb" When I got banned ( for virtually stuff all ) all the moderators voted on it and now some of those moderators are here chuming it up with the rejects. And can I say that brizmtb website is safer place for my daughter without you toolbars. She whinges alot less than you as well. Bye now I'm off to my next way point.


----------



## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

jimmy L said:


> Freedom of speech if you say so.........
> 
> got an idea....... yes you've heard it before ............build a bridge small man.
> All you little girls do is whinge whinge whinge. It's funny how you all danced to the tune when you were at brizmtb and now it's "oh the moderators are pigs, that website dumb" When I got banned ( for virtually stuff all ) all the moderators voted on it and now some of those moderators are here chuming it up with the rejects. And can I say that brizmtb website is safer place for my daughter without you toolbars. She whinges alot less than you as well. Bye now I'm off to my next way point.


yet another ICT moment have a look in the mirror and dry your own eyes princess:madman:


----------



## Oxford (Dec 4, 2006)

Gordyau said:


> If you read this thread first . I can attest it makes your head spin.
> Then I went a lurking at that other place. My God ( or your Deity of choice), The sanitation police are at it again.
> I loved Cam's " face-off" with GPS man:thumbsup: . I can't wait till Cam is banned for being obtuse.
> And Oppy man, I thought you had one of the greatest jobs in MTB. After reading all the crap you need to negoitate from every which direction, I tips me hat to you sir.
> ...


Actually it's Oxford, but I excuse your ignorance.


----------



## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

Wow this guy JimmyL still knows how to make friends so well...
Go somewhere else if all you see is whinging and no free-thinking discussion, same for you Ox if you wanna look for stuff to pick at ... openmindedness is welcome.


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

Oxford said:


> Actually it's Oxford, but I excuse your ignorance.


Sorry i thought it was your wife:thumbsup:


----------



## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

Thanks Jimmyau , Dillman.
Got a fright at first , until I saw it was an "L", not an "au".
Who the hell was that anyway?
Yeah I know Ox, I decided against self editing, don't have to here.


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## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

Does this now mean, if I have my say on this forum, I will be banned elsewhere?
Big Brother fun police are everywhere.


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Oxford??
A Brisbane based MTB website???
Why are we even talking about that carp here.

Great to have you around JimmyL.
Always good to spend time with the mentally disabled.


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## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

Hello TR, I was hoping you would drop by. Yeah your right, no more "carp" talk, I off to make a bancon sandwich. He he


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

you going to ride a mangoose to get that bancon


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Gordyau said:


> Hello TR, I was hoping you would drop by. Yeah your right, no more "carp" talk, I off to make a bancon sandwich. He he


Yep.
Just do what we do and do not even worry about it.
If people want to get silly about what we do then that is their problem.


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## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

No Jimmy! That a Bad Jimmy.  :thumbsup: 







Do it again .......do it again!


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## Oxford (Dec 4, 2006)

Dillon said:


> Wow this guy JimmyL still knows how to make friends so well...
> Go somewhere else if all you see is whinging and no free-thinking discussion, same for you Ox if you wanna look for stuff to pick at ... openmindedness is welcome.


Thanks for the heads up Herbert.:thumbsup:


----------



## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

NoWay Ray said:


> I'd have thought the Whyte wouldn't be the best bike around for jumping. Wouldn't all that travel just have sucked up that log jump like a speed bump anyway???


_teehee_ very funny... ...actually I was having a sniffle in the hanky about the logover on the B line..   

...and speaking of jumps... a certain New Australian will be looking for a few jumps to test out his new toy sometime very soon ...  ... reckon he might become a jumping loon if he can get a pair of shorts to cover his lycra...


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## jimmy L (Oct 16, 2005)

hurts so go , flame away:madmax: 

Gordy I'm the cyclist you ignored that day I was bleeding and injured on the side of the trail. Arogant little giant.


----------



## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

EP said:


> Originally Posted by Obtuse Panda
> It was a bloody good jump... there are waterbars that launch you higher...





Oppy said:


> Yeah but they are there to control water flow and not soley as a mountain bike jump. I question you definition of good jump. It was an ordinary jump in my opinion.


A Test to see if a jump is a good jump ...

1. Ride ones pushie over suspect jump...

2. check for smile on dial...

3. If smile is present it is therefore a good jump...

:thumbsup:


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Dillon said:


> I think Panda Bear wants to test out his ride on some nice big jumps on a DH race track  that's where they're best kept.


Sadly Mrs Bear has banned any attendance at the DJ's after my last few efforts... with a few kind words thrown in... something like, "aren't you a bit old to be hangin around parks on your pushbike?".... a cruel woman... :shocked: 

...and body armour is up for sale... please see other site if you are in the market for some chest armour


----------



## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

TR said:


> Oxford??
> ....
> 
> Great to have you around JimmyL.
> Always good to spend time with the mentally disabled.


:thumbsup: ROFLMAO ... fvckin' classic :thumbsup:


----------



## jpg (Dec 30, 2005)

jimmy L said:


> hurts so go , flame away:madmax:
> 
> Gordy I'm the cyclist you ignored that day I was bleeding and injured on the side of the trail. Arogant little giant.


Stay, go, whinge about whinging - mate, make up that fickle confused mind...

As for the "jump" at Tunnel Trail* - I don't miss it, it wasn't that good (to be the step up it was originally built to be, you would have had to be flying down the closed track).

When I first rolled up to it, it looked pretty sketchy at best (there were logs placed after to make it rollable I heard ??)

Anyways, things change - no use crying over things that can't be reversed...

Diversify - try riding on a _clear_ day if you want fast jumps :thumbsup:

* I stand corrected - apparently it's a multi use trail - therefore not a jump but a steeplechase obstacle


----------



## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

Hey yeah a clear day is perfect for EP, has he been there ?


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## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

jimmy L said:


> hurts so go , flame away:madmax:
> 
> Gordy I'm the cyclist you ignored that day I was bleeding and injured on the side of the trail. Arogant little giant.


You know, I have no idea who you are, or for that matter what your talking about. If that somehow comes across as arrogant, I can live with that.
You sound angry at me and again, I don't know you. So lets leave it that way, be what ever you want to be..................and I don't need to know you.

Later ........... or not.


----------



## Syconate (Dec 13, 2005)

Gordyau said:


> You know, I have no idea who you are, or for that matter what your talking about. If that somehow comes across as arrogant, I can live with that.
> You sound angry at me and again, I don't know you. So lets leave it that way, be what ever you want to be..................and I don't need to know you.
> 
> Later ........... or not.


If its any consolation JimmyL the majority of people here would have left you bleeding beside the trail too. Was that too harsh? Meh!

Hey TR leave the mentally deranged alone! Its not their fault their parents are also siblings.:eekster:


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## smithers (Apr 27, 2006)

i actually saw a mates 15 yo nephew clear that jump on a hardtail ( however he bit the dust and i wussed out ) Oxford? not the real Oxford. WTF im seeing double. more wine waiter please.


----------



## smithers (Apr 27, 2006)

OT - why did my post go there

how do i get it to the end of the thread?


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Dillon said:


> Hey yeah a clear day is perfect for EP, has he been there ?


... had a few oppurtunity's but none were as clear as a bit of owl spotting...

...my partner in dirt potstirring - young Cam - has told me of a new wonderland of white owls which I am keen to check out also...


----------



## Bad Santa (Apr 10, 2006)

smithers said:


> OT - why did my post go there
> 
> how do i get it to the end of the thread?


Hi Smithers.

Top right corner of the forum window thing is the "Display Mode" button. Click on that and select "Linear" as the display mode.

:thumbsup:


----------



## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

jimmy L said:


> As for the log on the track- why not build a bridge. Plenty of falled down trees around.


A bridge was not an availible option because it is a multiuse trail. We have built a bridge to cross a log on Bronwyns that was where we had our first spinal injury.:thumbsup:


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

Electric Panda said:


> ... had a few oppurtunity's but none were as clear as a bit of owl spotting...
> 
> ...my partner in dirt potstirring - young Cam - has told me of a new wonderland of white owls which I am keen to check out also...


Indeed, a bit of white and a bit of clear will get your pulse racing :thumbsup:


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

Oppy said:


> We have built a bridge to cross a log on Bronwyns that was where we had our first spinal injury.:thumbsup:


That's unfortunate on both sides - the injury and the ramifications ... it is an excellent built structure. I was very surprised to see it there, sanctioned and all, in BCC ! :thumbsup:


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

Hey Ep the land of the white spring owl is the land that time has forgotton.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Dillon said:


> That's unfortunate on both sides - the injury and the ramifications ... it is an excellent built structure. I was very surprised to see it there, sanctioned and all, in BCC ! :thumbsup:


Bronwyns is a superb bit of fun :thumbsup: ... and the jumps are great fun in the twisty sections... I really like the tight, downhill cornery bits and the ladders etc...great track all round... :thumbsup:


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Oppy said:


> Hey Ep the land of the white spring owl is the land that time has forgotton.


I'll definitely be looking for a some fellow travellers to find and brave the secret magic wardrobe then...:thumbsup:


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

Permits for mountain bike riding 'events' can be gained from ICC. If a date is set I can try to obtain a group booking for us so we can do it legally. Apparently the ICC's main concern is a potential accident with a horse or illegal motor bike rider which is why mountain bike access is by booked permit only. I am not exactly sure how this stops us from running into said illegal motor bike riders and horse riders (who also need a permit). There is a feedback form Gillian has posted on MTBDirt and the SEQ trail care site, please take the time to give some feed back as there has been a recent change in management out at ICC and they now may be more receptive to mountain bikes.

On an interesting side note I was on the management advisory committee for White Rock and Spring Mountain and it was never an issue raised in that forum. I think this came afterwards as a Get out of managing it free card......


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

it's amazing how with the 2 trouble makere coming in how horrible our happy place started to feel.

unless that is their intention why are they here?

EP/Oppy et al- let's go to the clear white spring next w/e? Has a ball with NWR good Jimmy , the fairy and the former one winged warrior and want to go back for more!

I think I've found the love again


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

Op, given the condition of the trails out there the other day, it appears as if the motorcycle usage has dropped off, although we came down frogmouth I think, which never got much usage anyway...


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

cam-i-am said:


> it's amazing how with the 2 trouble makere coming in how horrible our happy place started to feel.
> 
> unless that is their intention why are they here?
> 
> ...


We are keen to head out that way again :rockon:


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

is that a banjo?


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

Couldn't find the inbread emoticon


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## Bad Santa (Apr 10, 2006)

JimmyAU said:


> Couldn't find the inbread emoticon


You could simply post up a map of tassie - I'm sure you can find a few of those on the internet. :thumbsup:


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

oh, that would make good jimmy a really popular boy at home wouldn't it.....


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

Hey Ray, better make all the trails names out there known before 'someone' else comes along and gives everything their own name, because they can!


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

NoWay Ray said:


> Op, given the condition of the trails out there the other day, it appears as if the motorcycle usage has dropped off, although we came down frogmouth I think, which never got much usage anyway...


Yeah the ICC have got the area fenced much better these days and have regular joint patrols with the police out there collecting donations from motorbike riders. Last time I went out there I noted a distinct difference in the sand. It was much harder as it was not being continually churned up by 4WD's and moto's.

Pyro's down the 'hard way' with maybe a site visit to North face to check the log bridge on the way out. Then up the long was around to Spring. Stop for view lunch/water break. Then down Daisy's downhill or possibly Frogmouth then back via the power lines with maybe a side branch to see white rock on the way back. Sounds like a grand day out to me.


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

Sounds good when we going???


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

Oppy said:


> Yeah the ICC have got the area fenced much better these days and have regular joint patrols with the police out there collecting donations from motorbike riders. Last time I went out there I noted a distinct difference in the sand. It was much harder as it was not being continually churned up by 4WD's and moto's.
> 
> Pyro's down the 'hard way' with maybe a site visit to North face to check the log bridge on the way out. Then up the long was around to Spring. Stop for view lunch/water break. Then down Daisy's downhill or possibly Frogmouth then back via the power lines with maybe a side branch to see white rock on the way back. Sounds like a grand day out to me.


Don't think I ever rode the North face area? THat's pretty much the ride we did the other day, except for Pyro's.

How does next weekend the 16th December, work for everyone???


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

works for me...gives me 10 days to get better legs too


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

Yup works for us too :thumbsup:


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## smithers (Apr 27, 2006)

Thanks Pete


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

The trail care trail ride and Christmas BBQ for me.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

JimmyAU said:


> Yup works for us too :thumbsup:


I thought that the 16th was the Anti-Xmas ride?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

TR said:


> I thought that the 16th waq the Anti-Xmas ride?!?!?!?!?!


Doh...

i thought it was the 17th sunday


----------



## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

TR said:


> I thought that the 16th waq the Anti-Xmas ride?!?!?!?!?!


if you do that ride you don't get any presents....
C'mon TR...this is the trail where you reconsider your position on gears and suspension


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

JimmyAU said:


> Doh...
> 
> i thought it was the 17th sunday


You may be right.
Just looking for the email now.


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

JimmyAU via email said:


> 16th or 17th


????????


----------



## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

TR said:


> ????????


the 17th it is then, say 8am followed by Bancon and eggs at our place


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

JimmyAU said:


> the 17th it is then, say 8am followed by Bancon and eggs at our place


You only need to ask once.


----------



## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

I have my work Xmas booze up the night before, so I'll be riding hungover like a pirate...


----------



## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

NoWay Ray said:


> I have my work Xmas booze up the night before, so I'll be riding hungover like a pirate...


soo you will be less likely to crash:thumbsup:


----------



## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

NoWay Ray said:


> I have my work Xmas booze up the night before, so I'll be riding hungover like a pirate...


oh yeah , me too....oh well, maybe I can moderate my behaviour on Friday a bit..


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

JimmyAU said:


> soo you will be less likely to crash:thumbsup:


Or less likely to get hurt when he does crash.


----------



## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

TR said:


> Or less likely to get hurt when he does crash.


Given previous examples, I seem to crash more, but as TR pointed out, it hurts less at the time...:madman:


----------



## jimmy L (Oct 16, 2005)

TR said:


> Oxford??
> A Brisbane based MTB website???
> Why are we even talking about that carp here.
> 
> ...


forgiven


----------



## jimmy L (Oct 16, 2005)

:nono:


Syconate said:


> If its any consolation JimmyL the majority of people here would have left you bleeding beside the trail too. Was that too harsh? Meh!
> 
> Hey TR leave the mentally deranged alone! Its not their fault their parents are also siblings.:eekster:


----------



## jimmy L (Oct 16, 2005)

Oppy said:


> A bridge was not an availible option because it is a multiuse trail. We have built a bridge to cross a log on Bronwyns that was where we had our first spinal injury.:thumbsup:


apologies...
i refering to the virtual bridge you build when you don't like something and you have to get over it and move on. Thank you for your well informed explaination, keep up the good work.


----------



## Syconate (Dec 13, 2005)

jimmy L said:


> :nono:
> i refering to the virtual bridge you build when you don't like something and you have to get over it and move on. Thank you for your well informed explaination, keep up the good work.


Maybe you should go start buiding one of those virtual bridges and get over it.


----------



## jimmy L (Oct 16, 2005)

Syconate said:


> Maybe you should go start buiding one of those virtual bridges and get over it.


already have, I know when I'm not wanted.

You should stop trying to be funny though it doesn't suit you.


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

jimmy L said:


> already have, I know when I'm not wanted.
> 
> You should stop trying to be funny though it doesn't suit you.


You know when you are not wanted but you dont know how to solve this issue.


----------



## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

Bloody Hell, when did this place become the new kindergarden forum???

It's all about riding bikes and having fun people, let's get back to that hey!


----------



## Syconate (Dec 13, 2005)

NoWay Ray said:


> Bloody Hell, when did this place become the new kindergarden forum???
> 
> It's all about riding bikes and having fun people, let's get back to that hey!


Lovely riding weather today.


----------



## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

yes, let's keep it nice as possible. even sledging can be done with a smile 

JimmyL has really nice wheels (as I've mentioned before) so surely we can forgive him some abruptness.....(remember to play nice, I hear Karma is a moderator here- any nasty posts may result in being left unloved on the side of a trail, bleeding  )


----------



## jimmy L (Oct 16, 2005)

TR said:


> You know when you are not wanted but you dont know how to solve this issue.


I know how to solve

have your happy place back now I'm finished playing in the sandpit.


----------



## SC Fairy (Sep 5, 2006)

GiantPete said:


> You could simply post up a map of tassie - I'm sure you can find a few of those on the internet. :thumbsup:


 :nono:


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

jimmy L said:


> I know how to solve
> 
> have your happy place back now I'm finished playing in the sandpit.


I think you meant [email protected]


----------



## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

jimmy L said:


> I know how to solve
> 
> have your happy place back now I'm finished playing in the sandpit.


Jimmy, take a big deep breathe, and let it out... feel better, ok take another breathe then.

Let it go man, we're all here for laughs, don't take things too seriously.


----------



## Syconate (Dec 13, 2005)

SC Fairy said:


> :nono:












I assume you mean like this one Pete.


----------



## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

Lovely ride today, great weather, no injured or bleeding bodies that I noticed , just a good ride.


----------



## jimmy L (Oct 16, 2005)

NoWay Ray said:


> Jimmy, take a big deep breathe, and let it out... feel better, ok take another breathe then.
> 
> Let it go man, we're all here for laughs, don't take things too seriously.


sure Ray peace out fella

cam-i-am too true about karma luckily I have friend in high place.

Gordy I made that story up about being smashed at the side of the trail. I was offended you didn't recognise me ( i never forget a face) and rode off when I waiting for my posse but guess what I built a bridge north shore style. Next time ride and smile.

:eekster:


----------



## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

Oh brother, does no-one at home listen to your whining ? we don't either ... why you still here ?


----------



## Oxford (Dec 4, 2006)

Dillon said:


> Oh brother, does no-one at home listen to your whining ? we don't either ... why you still here ?


Herbie, Herbie, Herbie, didn't know you owned the forum.


----------



## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

That's the point ... no-one owns a forum, it's a product of the members ... 
Who wants a fight-picker around all the time ?

(It's Mr Wallingham to you ! what a classic catch that was  )


----------



## Oxford (Dec 4, 2006)

Dillon said:


> That's the point ... no-one owns a forum, it's a product of the members ...
> Who wants a fight-picker around all the time ?
> 
> (It's Mr Wallingham to you ! what a classic catch that was  )


Maybe this guy owns this site:

http://www.mtbr.com/author/aboutfrancis.shtml


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Oxford said:


> Maybe this guy owns this site:
> 
> http://www.mtbr.com/author/aboutfrancis.shtml


I am pretty sure that Francois knows that although he started MTBR (originally as a place for people to give their personal reviews of MTB products) and continues to run the site, that the views and posts made here are those of the members.

In essence this means that the forums belong to the members.
If this was not the case every post would need to be vetted by Francois before it could be posted. Instead what I see is a vast range of views on a vast range of topics from people from all over the world with little aggro occuring as a result.

Unfortunately I have seen many other forums where this situation does not occur and as a result have become over moderated, sterile places to be.


----------



## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

TR said:


> I am pretty sure that Francois knows that although he started MTBR (originally as a place for people to give their personal reviews of MTB products) and continues to run the site, that the views and posts made here are those of the members.
> 
> In essence this means that the forums belong to the members.
> If this was not the case every post would need to be vetted by Francois before it could be posted. Instead what I see is a vast range of views on a vast range of topics from people from all over the world with little aggro occuring as a result.
> ...


I've seen forums like that too TR. In one of them an entire thread just vanished last night, and I can only assume it was because of an obtuse post which made one of the forum police (they have flashing blue lights on their heads) feel a bit silly, so he deleted the entire thing.

......at least that is how it appears to a number of us as no other explanation was given for it vanishing...

luckily Francois seems to be a bit more relaxed, and a little less insecure


----------



## Dogtank (May 16, 2006)

OK here's a thought - the fight-pickers only have power because we respond. I guess its a human nature thing, we want to have the last post on a matter as that proves we somehow 'won'. Which is bollocks when you think about it 

So how about simply ignoring pointless posts? If there's no response then the urge to stir the pot will be minimised, people will move on to sites where they DO get a response and we can carry on in an unmoderated but friendly way...Just a thought :idea: 

Or we could all go ride our bikes?


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

cam-i-am said:


> luckily Francois seems to be a bit more relaxed, and a little less insecure


How bizzare!!!
Surely you are mistaken?!?!?!
Surely the only reason it neceessary to delete a thread would be if it was entirely on a topic that was outside of the forums rules that would be listed on the site.
If that was the case then i would certainly agree with the moderators actions.


----------



## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

Dogtank said:


> Or we could all go ride our bikes?


oh.....I am sitting at my desk and can look at the window and a nice clear/not too hot day and I can see my VPFree sitting on the roof of my car winking at me....I have another 8 hours or so of finding ways to keep me busy until then...surely some of that time can be spent calling a spade a spade (or whatever kind of tool they may be)?
but I agree with the englishman here, and will Iattempt to) back away from le provocateurs


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## Pitto (Sep 26, 2005)

cam-i-am said:


> oh.....I am sitting at my desk and can look at the window and a nice clear/not too hot day and I can see my VPFree sitting on the roof of my car winking at me....I have another 8 hours or so of finding ways to keep me busy until then...surely some of that time can be spent calling a spade a spade (or whatever kind of tool they may be)?
> but I agree with the englishman here, and will Iattempt to) back away from le provocateurs


Shovel...........



I get to look at the NE side of Nerang State Forrest from our office, now that tormenting for you.

I am sure Oppy will better this. 

What Mike said, but if im not in here, i spend too much money on bike bits elsewhere.

G


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

Just to make that time pass a little more quickly, search wicked weasel, just be careful if your at work, it's not porn


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

cam-i-am said:


> I've seen forums like that too TR. In one of them an entire thread just vanished last night, and I can only assume it was because of an obtuse post which made one of the forum police (they have flashing blue lights on their heads) feel a bit silly, so he deleted the entire thing.
> 
> ......at least that is how it appears to a number of us as no other explanation was given for it vanishing...
> 
> luckily Francois seems to be a bit more relaxed, and a little less insecure


well, 7 hours from riding time, but the thread I mentioned above has just come back from the cleaners and it back where it was. If only someone came along and took by bikes away for a day and removed all the nasties and returned them clean and sparkly, that'd be sweet

off to get some wheels built....


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

I look straight out the window of my office over Bunyaville and up toward Mt Nebo, Mt Glorious etc.
Over my left shoulder is my roadie and behind me is my track bike and MTB all wanting to go out and play.


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

I sit at my desk and have to look at a poster of a naked April Lawyer...it does have pics of her riding too...


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

There's a bit of 'heavy mist' down here settling the dust, there's 2 bikes in my van and my batteries are on my desk charging ... should be some perfect offroad-mountain-bicycle-riding-weather !
Hopefully we will see some 'aaaarrrgghhhh newbies' type riding tonight ...


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## SC Fairy (Sep 5, 2006)

Damn you guys have great views out your office windows  

They don't allow that at the hospital you know....I have a wonderful view of another grey building from my window.

Oh well just have to daydream of bikes and forests I guess


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

SC Fairy said:


> Damn you guys have great views out your office windows
> 
> They don't allow that at the hospital you know....I have a wonderful view of another grey building from my window.
> 
> Oh well just have to daydream of bikes and forests I guess


Better than daydreaming while on your bike in the forest.
We all know what happens when Em's does that hey?!?!?!?


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## Dogtank (May 16, 2006)

I can see Ipswich Rd...not even the nice end of Ipswich Rd either. My 29er is leaning against the office wall but it's looking at me and s******ing about the holes in my arm that are stopping me riding it off-road atm...


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## Bad Santa (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm working in the office today rather than working from home......

I see grey all around, partitions, carpet, IT people....all grey.

The hours till ride time are ticking down.

I will have to escape shortly to grab a bit to eat before I get to sit in a meeting for a few hours. I might try to drop in on a bike shop or two while out walking through the city.

My minds already on the trails.


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## Neildy (May 8, 2006)

My office is grey too, but thats because it's raining. So I've adjusted my tyre pressures and lubed the chain. Might even squeeze a nap in this afternoon...


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## Bad Santa (Apr 10, 2006)

Neildy said:


> My office is grey too, but thats because it's raining. So I've adjusted my tyre pressures and lubed the chain. Might even squeeze a nap in this afternoon...


Rain?? I haven't even seen outside of the building since I walked in this morning. 

Enough rain to keep the dust down and make the trails tacky?


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

Heavy mist ... not even enough to register on the automated systems...


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## Neildy (May 8, 2006)

One and a bit mm in my rain gauge, but i'm in the sticks.


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

well, dropped some hoops and hubs off to have them reappear as wheels sometime...holy heck, not cheap....they better be pretty ....


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

cam-i-am said:


> well, dropped some hoops and hubs off to have them reappear as wheels sometime...holy heck, not cheap....they better be pretty ....


My last set cost me a $50 bottle of Scotch to be built.
Sounds like I got a good deal.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

I’d say that would depend on when the consumption of said Scotch took place…


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## Dillon (May 7, 2005)

cam-i-am said:


> well, dropped some hoops and hubs off to have them reappear as wheels sometime...holy heck, not cheap....they better be pretty ....


where ? should be ~$50 a wheel including spokes.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

I guess it depends on the spokes / nipples, but I have seen builds over double that for a good job.


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

Dillon said:


> where ? should be ~$50 a wheel including spokes.


with jezzas man in Hamilton...costs twice that, but i did get all fancy with db sokes and alloy nips  ....
if they are strong and light I guess I'll get over the cost (eventually)


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

Today I look out the window and see a wall and Coonan Street Indooroopilly. But just sometimes when I am at work I look down and see handle bars....... Does that make me a professional mountain bike rider?

I rode with Dylan Jefferies of MVDesigns yesterday at Coot-tha. It was hard. But today paper work and organisation (and a little forum watching).


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

He does a good job Cam.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

cruz said:


> He does a good job Cam.


Not good enough to stop Porky from breaking spokes though.
Then again that is a tough ask.


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

Well, been shopping, played with the dogs, went out and touched my bikes, watched Kenny on DVD and now Roger Waters Live in Berlin. Just The Band dvd to go before I leave for the southside jaunt to Daisy Hill. As Lou Reed sang, 'Oh what a perfect day!'


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

TR said:


> Not good enough to stop Porky from breaking spokes though.
> Then again that is a tough ask.


Different builder.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

cruz said:


> Different builder.


Gotta feel sorry for that guy. :eekster:


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

Porky needs a set of those magnesium mag wheels.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

cruz said:


> Porky needs a set of those magnesium mag wheels.


Set of 26" toughs but more like a disc wheelset.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

cam-i-am said:


> well, 7 hours from riding time, but the thread I mentioned above has just come back from the cleaners and it back where it was. If only someone came along and took by bikes away for a day and removed all the nasties and returned them clean and sparkly, that'd be sweet


...and headed for fame it seems...


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## cam-i-am (Sep 15, 2005)

Electric Panda said:


> ...and headed for fame it seems...


just saw it...thanks for starting my friday off with a belly laugh


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## andy_n (Jan 7, 2006)

NoWay Ray said:


> Don't think I ever rode the North face area? THat's pretty much the ride we did the other day, except for Pyro's.
> 
> How does next weekend the 16th December, work for everyone???


Is this ride still happening? What time? Which day? What start point? And Don't listen to Oppy's directions unless you are keen on cutting a path through.


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

andy_n said:


> Is this ride still happening? What time? Which day? What start point? And Don't listen to Oppy's directions unless you are keen on cutting a path through.


Sure is

6am Saturday, Starting point is end of School road, Redbank Plains.

I'm not sure what Ray has in mind for us this time.


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## andy_n (Jan 7, 2006)

JimmyAU said:


> Sure is
> 
> 6am Saturday, Starting point is end of School road, Redbank Plains.
> 
> I'm not sure what Ray has in mind for us this time.


Saturday not Sunday????? I should still be able to make, but the person who built alot of the trails out there with me might not be able to but we will see. I might have to have a chat with Raymond and see where he has been going lately as I have developed some cool loops out there lately.


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## wrenchmonkey (Jan 8, 2004)

*Sometimes I think trails would be better off left alone*

Can I rant to? How come every bit of trail work seems to make things wider and smoother? I'm not a fan of tyre skidders but sometimes I wish people would just let nature take its course. I realise that there are erosion and sustainability issues, but I can't help wondering if one day I'll hit the local trails only to find that they have all been tar sealed!

It doesn't matter if you ride rigid or monster travel, they're mountain bikes, not road bikes.


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

wrenchmonkey said:


> Can I rant to?


No :nono: 



wrenchmonkey said:


> How come every bit of trail work seems to make things wider and smoother?


Because it takes a lot more time to make sustainable trail technical.



wrenchmonkey said:


> I'm not a fan of tyre skidders but sometimes I wish people would just let nature take its course.


If we all stopped riding/walking/horsing the trails it could. While humans continue to ride trails we need to maintain them.



wrenchmonkey said:


> I realise that there are erosion and sustainability issues,


Yep and the more traffic we get in high use suburban areas the more sustainability becomes harded to umm sustain.



wrenchmonkey said:


> but I can't help wondering if one day I'll hit the local trails only to find that they have all been tar sealed!


:idea: that would be really hard wearing wouldn't it. :thumbsup: Thanks WrenchyMonkey I'll keep that solution in mind.

I believe this is the emoticon you are looking for :yikes: 



wrenchmonkey said:


> It doesn't matter if you ride rigid or monster travel, they're mountain bikes, not road bikes.


What about if it's a 29'er


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

So ahhhhhh... Oppy... ....bit bored are we?!  

...done the Xmas shopping... cleaned the barby... sorted the drinks fridge and now there is nothing left but save the world on a quiet sat afternoon?!  





... not that there is anything wrong with that!...


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## JezzaGiveMeMyNameBackU... (Sep 7, 2006)

Wow just saw this thread. What with work being so busy (stupid fat dude in red suit! Bah Humbug) I haven't had time to play on forums the last few weeks. :sad:

Wish I had been around for the fun though, I wonder what brought them out of their sanitised little boxes? :aureola:

TR porky has never broken a spoke on an Ash built wheel. (yet)

Oppy (and all others), I'd just like to say thanks for all the hard work.



> Because it takes a lot more time to make sustainable trail technical.


There it is people. You know that the land manager is :drumroll: open to more technical trails, hell I am sure that he would perfer it but man power is needed.

While I am all in favour of free thinking and free speach I realy don't think that you should be complaning :rant: unless you too have done your bit.

I can hardly judge as I am yet to attend a trail care day  (an omission that I intend to correct soon) but I also am not complaining.

Oppy,
is there any faculity to grade trails eg. put signs up at either end warning users that the particular trail is of a high leval of difficulty and should be ridden only by experienced riders?

Also if I can get this :band: off their (variouing degrees of) fat arses would there be a particular trail or section of trail that could be assigned to a particular group of individuals for technifing? (with appropriate supervision)

Happy Hanukkah all.


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

JezzaGiveMeMyNameBackU... said:


> Oppy,
> is there any faculity to grade trails eg. put signs up at either end warning users that the particular trail is of a high leval of difficulty and should be ridden only by experienced riders?


Yes, but don't hold your breath. There is temporary sign with a degree of difficulty rating out at Mt Coot-tha at the moment. Rating is very subjective and in reality only useful to novice first timers.



JezzaGiveMeMyNameBackU... said:


> Also if I can get this :band: off their (variouing degrees of) fat arses would there be a particular trail or section of trail that could be assigned to a particular group of individuals for technifing? (with appropriate supervision).


Sure is it's Trail Care. It has it's own web site here: http://trailcareinseq.iforumer.com

Working bees are twice a month organised by the Gap Creek Trails Alliance and The Gap Cycling Club.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Oppy said:


> Sure is it's Trail Care. It has it's own web site here: http://trailcareinseq.iforumer.com
> 
> Working bees are twice a month organised by the Gap Creek Trails Alliance and The Gap Cycling Club.


Not sure you are getting Jezza's meaning Oppy.
I am thinking he wants to bassically adopt a section of trail for a specific group to build and maintain rather than just be one of a group who turns up at trailcare to lend some muscle.


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

Sure I understood that, he is more than welcome to apply to form a trail care group if that's what he wants. The Gap Cycles club have adopted a section of trail and they are actively improving and maintaining that. The GCTA have a broader focus which is also fine. 

A group of one is a little impractical if Jezza is a solo unit join the GCTA and he is still welcome to work on a specific area under the GCTA umbrella for insurance purposes. 

If Jezza is part of an organised coherent group of individuals then sure he can go through the application process and we can form another Trail Care Group and I can formally induct them, No Problem.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Electric Panda said:


> So noticed that Vietnam is getting wider and wider as people are doing B lines around difficult bits and bloody great locked rear tyre grooves just waiting to erode some more... no doubt it will be sanitised soon under the guise of conservation or too dangerous or whatever...
> ....


...So I happened to be riding Vietnam again and the B lines are getting worn in... read someone has ridden a wider path which takes away the leaf litter and fine humus which exposes the topsoil which is shunted into the previous ruts and Viola! a double track ensues from the single track 

I didn't have a suggestion before but I have a one now!!! :thumbsup:

ready... :drumroll:

Hot wire!! That's right - electrical fences! All you need is a couple of spans of double wire on both sides of the single track! keeps folks from doing B lines, sharpens focus, and puts a spark into your riding!! :band:


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Electric Panda said:


> Hot wire!! That's right - electrical fences! All you need is a couple of spans of double wire on both sides of the single track! keeps folks from doing B lines, sharpens focus, and puts a spark into your riding!! :band:


EP
That is the dumbest thing I have ever read.
Razor wire would work much better. Keep them on the track and perhaps decapitate those who stray.

No wait!!
Machine gunners in turrets every 20m...........with attack dogs.

No, no, hang on!!!
Ill tempered, mutated Sea Bass.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

...little TR dolls???...


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## PNW (May 25, 2006)

How about a MTBR trailcare group to get over there and fix the trail up


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## smithers (Apr 27, 2006)

PNW said:


> How about a MTBR trailcare group to get over there and fix the trail up


That would work, but electrified razor wire would be my pick.

I guess we are going to see a lot more of the track widening as newer entrants on MTB's broaden their focus and begin riding more and more of the less frequented tracks.

Perhaps there may come a time when the Qld gov. allows for trail care in their budget, seeing as MTBing is becoming hugely popular. Full time positions for Supervisors and labourers to maintain trails as well as volunteer trail care groups, whadda ya think?


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

PNW said:


> How about a MTBR trailcare group to get over there and fix the trail up


Anyone???

TR, EP, NWR, etc etc


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Oppy said:


> Anyone???
> 
> TR, EP, NWR, etc etc


Oppy
I am more than happy to come and lift heavy stuff.
Just let me know.
Will give me a reason to ride Bronwyns again while I am there.


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

Oppy said:


> Anyone???
> 
> TR, EP, NWR, etc etc


Oppy, this has been discussed and we're trying to put our bodies where our mouths are...or something along those lines, there should be enough of us around to make something happen!


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

NoWay Ray said:


> Oppy, this has been discussed and we're trying to put our bodies where our mouths are...or something along those lines, there should be enough of us around to make something happen!


Yup count me in too


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

PNW said:


> How about a MTBR trailcare group to get over there and fix the trail up


Fixing a trail IMBA style sadly means smoothing it out... :nono: ...

there are already smooth bits - they are the B lines I am having a whine about... 

Ideally I would like to log the smooth B Lines and make everyone ride the rutted rough line that goes down the middle of Vietnam that is already rock and so won't erode anymore... ... I appreciate from Oppy's point of view that this means more accidents, also certain small but loud sections of some catchment groups would have more photo oppurtunitys and ammunition to point the finger at mtb'ers (they even had a go at orienteers for FS!) 

So sadly, as I mentioned, I don't have a good answer - though the electrified razor wire is interesting


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

EP.
Would you consider "armouring" the B-lines in some way to make them unrideable without logging it??
I also like the ACTUAL trail the way it is.


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## JezzaGiveMeMyNameBackU... (Sep 7, 2006)

On a lot of the trailes that I rode in the UK they often place a large rock or stumpy bit on the outside on the exit of a corner to stop people running wide. Same applies here I reccon.


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## JezzaGiveMeMyNameBackU... (Sep 7, 2006)

Oppie I am not sure which option would be best I will probably have to discuss with da crew and than maybe discuss options with you personaly.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

TR said:


> EP.
> Would you consider "armouring" the B-lines in some way to make them unrideable without logging it??
> I also like the ACTUAL trail the way it is.


I guess there are advantages to both...

I like logging cause it traps silt and humus and eventually breaks down. The natural process can then recreate topsoil. Sadly in 2 or 3 years you have to do it again but I guess that would be ok... There are many trails in Cootha that have returned to quite a degree of 'naturalness' over a period of 5yrs or so when leaf litter etc have been left to lie and decompose on the old tracks... and unless you knew where to look you would never think that once a trail was there such has been the success of the natural recovery process
Rocks placed 'armour style' look unnatural and there would be the attraction to make a trail out of them which would take away from the soul of Vietnam IMHO


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Oh well maybe we need Sharks with fricken' laser beams on their heads to keep people on the line.


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## PNW (May 25, 2006)

Electric Panda said:


> Fixing a trail IMBA style sadly means smoothing it out... :nono: ...
> 
> there are already smooth bits - they are the B lines I am having a whine about...
> 
> ...


You're wrong EP, IMBA doesn't mean smoothing it out.
If you think it will remain like it is now you're in a dream aswell so we might aswell get in there and build something that WE want, within reason of course.
Ever seen that big pile of rocks just over the fence right next to the scar that is Vietnam. I suggest we build a downhill rock garden and a smooth line next to it, remove any other lines. There's also scope for drops and 'B" lines at some of the other erroded sections on this track.
What it will take is thought, dedication and hard work, are we up to it or are we just going to sit on our hand and wait for it to be closed or worse, smoothed out?


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

PNW said:


> You're wrong EP, IMBA doesn't mean smoothing it out.


So where is this gnarly IMBA track?! And don't tell me Bronwyns - it is a great track but it is a footpath with bigger obstacles&#8230;:thumbsup:



PNW said:


> If you think it will remain like it is now you're in a dream aswell so we might aswell get in there and build something that WE want, within reason of course.


It will remain until it is smoothed and then we ride different tracks&#8230;



PNW said:


> Ever seen that big pile of rocks just over the fence right next to the scar that is Vietnam. I suggest we build a downhill rock garden and a smooth line next to it, remove any other lines. There's also scope for drops and 'B" lines at some of the other erroded sections on this track.


And that may be a great track - but not a good gnarly track that is the current Vietnam (if you don't ride the B lines) &#8230; which means the spirit of Vietnam will be lost&#8230; :madmax:

&#8230;and calling Vietnam a 'scar' typifies the view of a lot of XC riders (obviously present company excepted) who leave skids in their knicks as well as skids on the tracks when they come to ride anything a little difficult &#8230; 



PNW said:


> What it will take is thought, dedication and hard work, are we up to it or are we just going to sit on our hand and wait for it to be closed or worse, smoothed out?


Rubbish&#8230; if the track is closed we will have lost nothing&#8230; like has been said before&#8230; Bubble, Deefa et al won't be tasked with sitting at the bottom of Vietnam waiting for naughty mtb'ers&#8230; not while there are evil bastards speeding on our public roads and couples beating the **** out of each other&#8230;:eekster:

The lads loved a couple of the tracks we did today and commented on how interesting and exciting the 'raw' tracks were&#8230; That is not to say we didn't enjoy Roadie Robs Track - it is just that you don't want to ride the same thing over and over only in a different area&#8230; :thumbsup:


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Not wanting to get involved in a trail argument too much but thought this was funny.
Was talking to a mate of mine on MSN the other day and got talking about trails.
He said a lot of his trails had been remodelled according to IMBA guidelines and that as a result all the trails were tight, twisty and littered with tree "chokes".
Sound familiar???
Only difference..................he lives in Cincinatti.


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## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

I have already spoken to Oppy and stated my interest in joining him for at least one trail care day in ' 07. I need a reason to get out of Daisy from time to time.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

As I have mentioned before _I don't fully understand the various issues and arguments that you guys are involved with_, so I'm generally going to keep out of things in this thread as they're local issues to you guys. However I have a little niggle&#8230; I still firmly believe that this whole gnarly / lame trail argument is a result of those who design and build these trails, not a result of the IMBA guidelines and standards themselves.

From what I have been taught and from what I have read, I fail to see how anyone could say that by following these guidelines that you must rip out every obstacle and make a flat footpath?


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## Gordyau (Sep 6, 2006)

True, Low Rider, when some of us here( TR, Jimmyau, Em and others) helped build a section of Stonehenge, we were able to put some obstacles into our part of the track. Probably not as much as we wanted on the day( there were a couple of big downed trees we would have liked to incorporate).
I guess if your not involved, it's hard to have a say.


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## PNW (May 25, 2006)

Gordyau said:


> I guess if your not involved, it's hard to have a say.


ElectricPanda has a good try though


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

I am still suffering Post Traumatic Guilt Paralysis after RollerCoaster Gate back in 04/05 (Yes kiddies, that long ago…)…

To wit… We were told we were going to be fixing up Roller Coaster – a Track of Beauty that wound its technical way thru gullys and over rises in Gap Creek… :aureola: 

No worries we thought… there were erosion problems from B liners and a few spots where the boys would stop to admire the view that were packed down… bit of log work etc etc…

But my fellow mtb’ers! We were TWICKED!! :devil: 

Roller Coaster was completely closed and now a footpath is in its place!! :yikes: :yikes: 



And I was one of the people who helped commit the crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cryin: :cryin:


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Low_Rider said:


> As I have mentioned before _I don't fully understand the various issues and arguments that you guys are involved with_, so I'm generally going to keep out of things in this thread as they're local issues to you guys. However I have a little niggle&#8230; I still firmly believe that this whole gnarly / lame trail argument is a result of those who design and build these trails, not a result of the IMBA guidelines and standards themselves.
> 
> From what I have been taught and from what I have read, I fail to see how anyone could say that by following these guidelines that you must rip out every obstacle and make a flat footpath?


It also comes down to the what the landowner allows to be built using the IMBA guidelines and I think that this may be the defining factor in our case up here.


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

TR said:


> It also comes down to the what the landowner allows to be built using the IMBA guidelines and I think that this may be the defining factor in our case up here.


Look at what has been put in on Bronwyn's though, the scope is there to build more tech type stuff, we just need to get off our asses and put the effort in. I have had a lot of discussions with Oppy in the past, so I can understand what some of the limitations and objectives he has to work with, however it does still leave room to put some things that we'd like into place, look at it this way, either we can have some imput into making something we like, or we can let somebody else do it, and be left to moan about it over the internet...


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## JimmyAU (Jun 15, 2005)

NoWay Ray said:


> Look at what has been put in on Bronwyn's though, the scope is there to build more tech type stuff, we just need to get off our asses and put the effort in. I have had a lot of discussions with Oppy in the past, so I can understand what some of the limitations and objectives he has to work with, however it does still leave room to put some things that we'd like into place, look at it this way, either we can have some imput into making something we like, or we can let somebody else do it, and be left to moan about it over the internet...


I'm with you on this one Ray

Oppy any chance a few of us getting together to carry out the work? with your supervison of course.


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## tomb (Sep 6, 2005)

NoWay Ray said:


> Look at what has been put in on Bronwyn's though, the scope is there to build more tech type stuff, we just need to get off our asses and put the effort in. I have had a lot of discussions with Oppy in the past, so I can understand what some of the limitations and objectives he has to work with, however it does still leave room to put some things that we'd like into place, look at it this way, either we can have some imput into making something we like, or we can let somebody else do it, and be left to moan about it over the internet...


Thats probably the best way to look at our situation.

Much better to be involved and trying to help rather than sitting on our hands


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

TR said:


> It also comes down to the what the landowner allows to be built using the IMBA guidelines and I think that this may be the defining factor in our case up here.


I think I agree with The Retroboy on this one... when certain elements are whinging about Orienteering it limits the freethinking of the politicians involved... another plus for electrified razor wire.... it would stop fuzzy headed treehuggers (as opposed to freethinking treehuggers - moi!) from photographing it as easily :thumbsup:


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## cruz (Feb 2, 2004)

. EP - There are many trails in Cootha that have returned to quite a degree of 'naturalness' over a period of 5yrs or so... and unless you knew where to look you would never think to ride there...

You will be spanked for your continued indiscretions Mr Elevated Pedaller. Unless you are just checking on the 'naturalness'??? of the area.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Thankyou for pointing that out Mr MC Cruz... perhaps I shall reword that for our gentle law-abiding readers... 

There are many trails in Cootha that have returned to quite a degree of 'naturalness' over a period of 5yrs or so when leaf litter etc have been left to lie and decompose on the old tracks... and unless you knew where to look you would never think that once a trail was there such has been the success of the natural recovery process... :thumbsup:


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