# Announcement: Mtbr has a new owner!



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

I am pleased to announce that Mtbr and Roadbikereview have been acquired by Verticalscope Inc. from Invenda Corp. They are a media company expert in enthusiast websites and forum management with many revered brands such as Autoguide and The Truth About Cars.

Myself, Francis Cebedo and most members of the editorial and content team will continue on and run Mtbr and Roadbikereview. The transition should be fairly seamless as we slowly make improvements as they make sense.

This move opens up a whole new array of experience and technologies to the sites to allow them to thrive. We will now have access to resources to improve our product and grow our audience in the ever-changing media landscape.

Our challenging issues such as spam, mobile experience and ease of use will be better tackled now with the help of a parent company with a depth of experience in these areas. And we'll be able to deliver cool features and user experiences once again.

We look forward to your continued support.

Francis Cebedo and Mtbr.com


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Hello everyone,

My name is Philip, I am a community manager for Verticalscope, I work with a small team that will continue to manage the webmaster duties for MTBR.com.

We are here to help primarily with the technical end of things and help make the jobs of the current Mods/Admins easier. I posted a real basic run down to answer common questions below. If you have more questions or concerns please feel free to post them in response.

*What are our intentions?*

We bring reliability, support and the infrastructure needed to ensure that the community will continue to be around for years to come. It's our goal to work with the mod/admin team to help provide the resources and required work to give this community a broader reach, to attract new members, and to better the overall knowledge shared in the community.

*Will leadership change?*

Continuity is the focus here, YOU as the membership work very hard to keep building this community while your mod/admin team keep the walls and the roof up in this place; we are primarily here to make sure the lights stay on. Every community is unique and should always be respected in that regard. You all have established your own unique rules and regulations and a strong reputation that is carried by all of this. For us it's paramount to maintain this level of integrity and enthusiasm.

*What am I here for?*

Our primary role is to be the technical contact; you all contributed to building the strong foundation the site was built on. Moving forward we will all work together to keep the momentum and the community growing. We will be on the forum checking in daily to make sure regular maintenance is taken care of and keeping things running smoothly from behind the scenes. We will also be setting up a help desk on the site for when you have questions or issues with the site or your account and need assistance.

Looking forward to working with you all.

Thanks,

Philip


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Congrats FC!

...and Welcome Philip! (You may be looking forward to working with us "all" right now, but wait. Just you wait!)


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

chuckha62 said:


> Congrats FC!
> 
> ...and Welcome Philip! (You may be looking forward to working with us "all" right now, but wait. Just you wait!)


Noted. If you have ideas for how to make the time you spend here better let me know. 
-Philip


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

My only wish is that the new owners please make the site objective and as free from industry influence as much as possible. 

...and add a MTB skills forum


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Lemonaid said:


> My only wish is that the new owners please make the site objective and as free from industry influence as much as possible.
> 
> ...and add a MTB skills forum


The content of the forum is driven by enthusiast members and not the companies that make the products. We don't make a point of curating the conversations. The editorial side is still dictated by what is new and popular but everyone will have differing opinions on what is cool/not cool.

Any new sections added will go through the mod team for a discussion on logistics and make sure we can support it well. Your suggestion will be discussed. 

-Philip


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

To echo Lemonaid, The only real complain I've ever had here is when enthusiastic threads about upcoming products get deleted at a manufacturer's request, because they want to control the information about their products even when it's entirely speculative, which I think is absolutely ridiculous. Speaking to you right now: Shimano 12 speed thread deletions...

Anyway, I run a bunch of online property myself. It's great to see that someone who actually understands how forums should work is going to keep it going. Too many times I've seen the overly-corporate buyouts and they often don't have a clue why something became popular in the first place and inadvertently take steps to mess it all up.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

shimano 12 speed discussions have been getting killed ? are you serious ?

holy moly if this is true.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

jestep said:


> To echo Lemonaid, The only real complain I've ever had here is when enthusiastic threads about upcoming products get deleted at a manufacturer's request, because they want to control the information about their products even when it's entirely speculative, which I think is absolutely ridiculous. Speaking to you right now: Shimano 12 speed thread deletions...
> 
> Anyway, I run a bunch of online property myself. It's great to see that someone who actually understands how forums should work is going to keep it going. Too many times I've seen the overly-corporate buyouts and they often don't have a clue why something became popular in the first place and inadvertently take steps to mess it all up.


I cannot make comments to the former since I just got here today.

The latter I can tell you; VS is corporate. but we are focused on content and continuity . Deleting content does little for the organic growth of the site or the health of the database. 
-Philip


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Can you get rid of the e-bike forum? k thanks!


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I think the sub-forum structure could stand to be re-arranged. for example, you could combine the following pairs of potentially redundant sub-forums:

XC Racing and Training - Mtbr.com and Endurance XC Racing - Mtbr.com

Lights DIY - Do It Yourself - Mtbr.com and Lights and Night Riding - Mtbr.com

29er Bikes - Mtbr.com and 29er Components - Mtbr.com

Cyclocross - Mtbr.com and Gravel Bikes - Mtbr.com

do we need a separate forum for All Mountain - Mtbr.com

I know the gravel bike forum is still new, but the title of that forum could be "cyclocross and gravel"

and get rid of the e-bike forum. 

*I don't speak for everyone here, but those are mu suggestions.*

Please add a mtb skills forum where people can discuss and critique one another's skills and technique. everyone can post embarrassing videos of themselves failing at being rad and give each other pointers.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

MTBRadmin said:


> Noted. If you have ideas for how to make the time you spend here better let me know.
> -Philip


Read and address the backlog of issues in the site feedback forum

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

mack_turtle said:


> and get rid of the e-bike forum.


Or at least rename it the human assisted motor bike forum...


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Give the mods a raise.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

mack_turtle said:


> I think the sub-forum structure could stand to be re-arranged. for example, you could combine the following pairs of potentially redundant sub-forums:
> 
> XC Racing and Training - Mtbr.com and Endurance XC Racing - Mtbr.com
> 
> ...





matadorCE said:


> Can you get rid of the e-bike forum? k thanks!


I brought up the skills forum with the mods. The ebike forum will not be removed, try to ignore it, that's what I try to do when I see them on the road. Cyclo-Cross and Gravel we can look at but it was always my understanding that one is competitive racing for those who think everything in life should be that much harder and Gravel cycling is more adventure sport that requires more time with your butt in the saddle than CX?

I will be taking a look a the flow of things with the mod team over the next few weeks and do appreciate everyone's feedback so please keep it coming. 
-Philip


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

My only 02cents ...beginner's corner should be at top of all forums, I think newbies will navigate the site better, instead of posting wherever.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Harold said:


> Read and address the backlog of issues in the site feedback forum
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Will have a look, thanks! Anything in particular that you feel has been critical?



jestep said:


> Or at least rename it the human assisted motor bike forum...


I will take that into account.



Finch Platte said:


> Give the mods a raise.


Noted.

-Philip


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

jcd46 said:


> My only 02cents ...beginner's corner should be at top of all forums, I think newbies will navigate the site better, instead of posting wherever.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


You can lead a new user to a new user forum but making them post there is not always so simple. You can report the post with a request to have it moved. 
-Philip


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Welcome, -Philip.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

slowpoker said:


> Welcome, -Philip.


Thanks!
-Philip


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I don't ebike, don't race, don't wear lycra, don't race Enduro, don't have a 29er, +, and though I drink it, don't really care about beer.

I also don't advocate getting rid of ANY forum. Why would I? I don't have to read them, and no one else does either.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

I need to install a LIKE button and get back to this. 
-Philip



MSU Alum said:


> I don't ebike, don't race, don't wear lycra, don't race Enduro, don't have a 29er, +, and though I drink it, don't really care about beer.
> 
> I also don't advocate getting rid of ANY forum. Why would I? I don't have to read them, and no one else does either.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I would lobby for the end of the "rep" system. I know a few forums where you can "thank" someone for a post and see how many "thanks" a post receives. there is no cheap option for negative feedback, so if you want to tell someone off, you need to do it directly. I like that.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

MTBRadmin said:


> Will have a look, thanks! Anything in particular that you feel has been critical?


By far, the spam.

And the ads that install malware.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Harold said:


> By far, the spam.
> 
> And the ads that install malware.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Looking into both. Where you getting the mobile redirecting ads on mostly apple products?
-Philip


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I access the site via the tapatalk app on my android phone, and via google chrome on my windows pc. And I run tons of adblockers here for two reasons. First, the ads that install malware that have occasionally been an issue for YEARS which are the whole reason I started. Using adblockers, but also because the ads here are pervasive and detract from the user experience.


MTBRadmin said:


> Looking into both. Where you getting the mobile redirecting ads on mostly apple products?
> -Philip


Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

mack_turtle said:


> I think the sub-forum structure could stand to be re-arranged. for example, you could combine the following pairs of potentially redundant sub-forums:
> 
> XC Racing and Training - Mtbr.com and Endurance XC Racing - Mtbr.com
> 
> ...


Combine CX and Gravel? You heathen!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

matadorCE said:


> Can you get rid of the e-bike forum? k thanks!


It is the most contentious part of the site. You could get rid of ebikes and allow politics and religion and there would still be less bickering overall.

Oh, and can I get a raise?


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Harold said:


> I access the site via the tapatalk app on my android phone, and via google chrome on my windows pc. And I run tons of adblockers here for two reasons. First, the ads that install malware that have occasionally been an issue for YEARS which are the whole reason I started. Using adblockers, but also because the ads here are pervasive and detract from the user experience.
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


I get 100% what you are saying. I was only clarifying if the site had been attacked by the recent popular mobile ad problem. It primarily attacked apple products using the safari browser and was on a number of online forums. Its been a nighmare to track down.
-Philip


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Next someone will be asking for a unicycling forum!
-Philip



SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Combine CX and Gravel? You heathen!


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

mack_turtle said:


> I know the gravel bike forum is still new, but the title of that forum could be "cyclocross and gravel"


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

MTBRadmin said:


> Looking into both. Where you getting the mobile redirecting ads on mostly apple products?
> -Philip


I have been getting redirects when using Chrome on my Android phone.


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

Harold said:


> I access the site via the tapatalk app on my android phone, and via google chrome on my windows pc. And I run tons of adblockers here for two reasons. First, the ads that install malware that have occasionally been an issue for YEARS which are the whole reason I started. Using adblockers, but also because the ads here are pervasive and detract from the user experience.


I was an active participant on WaltherForums.com. Verticalscope acquired it and the primary result (other than having to change my password to a "strong" password) was a virtual bombardment of advertising. I haven't been on that site in about 3 years. It became an annoying mess.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Yippee. That thought had crossed my mind, if the new owners make things worse, i would be seriously reconsidering my participation.


Cuyuna said:


> I was an active participant on WaltherForums.com. Verticalscope acquired it and the primary result (other than having to change my password to a "strong" password) was a virtual bombardment of advertising. I haven't been on that site in about 3 years. It became an annoying mess.


Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Cuyuna said:


> I was an active participant on WaltherForums.com. Verticalscope acquired it and the primary result (other than having to change my password to a "strong" password) was a virtual bombardment of advertising. I haven't been on that site in about 3 years. It became an annoying mess.


I am surprised to hear that a company who's sole income is based on advertising ruined a site with too much advertising.....


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Are there plans afoot to turn this into a "pay to play" site? In part or wholly?


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

life behind bars said:


> Are there plans afoot to turn this into a "pay to play" site? In part or wholly?


No. We don't ad pay to play to any site unless its requested by the community. This is the culture of some sites but if its not here now and the idea is not welcomed there is no reason for us to add anything that would require you to pay to use the site. 
-Philip


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## Redhotrotor (Jun 25, 2018)

MTBRadmin said:


> Noted. If you have ideas for how to make the time you spend here better let me know.
> -Philip


Can I have my original screen name back? Redhotrotor is my porn star name. I try not to mix too much business with pleasure. You sound like someone who might understand.

k. Thx!


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

So, Philip. Have you ever seen a grown man naked?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chuckha62 said:


> Congrats FC!
> 
> ...and Welcome Philip! (You may be looking forward to working with us "all" right now, but wait. Just you wait!)


Ditto, welcome aboard Phillip and good to hear you'll still be around FC.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

This site is already wallpapered in advertising, I am not sure there is room for more. 
I am not aware of what ad bombardment happened on WaltherForums.com. That site would have always had ads, we acquired that way. As a rule we don't allow ads on our network to pop up, pop under or otherwise block you from viewing any content. If you where using tapatalk on the site the ads served by tapatalk are managed by them since you are using their platform to view the site. Now if you did get ads that popped up or redirected you its likley part of a problem that is internet wide and not just part of our network of sites. There has been an on going battle with ad networks and a series of re-occuring ads that would happen on mobile and try to redirect you to amazon or tell you that you won something. Despite the popular opinion on our network that we created this it was on a number of sites including multiple news sites.

-Philip



Cuyuna said:


> I was an active participant on WaltherForums.com. Verticalscope acquired it and the primary result (other than having to change my password to a "strong" password) was a virtual bombardment of advertising. I haven't been on that site in about 3 years. It became an annoying mess.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Will there be something for me in my PM box later?
-Philip



Finch Platte said:


> So, Philip. Have you ever seen a grown man naked?


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## Redhotrotor (Jun 25, 2018)

Can you adjust DJ's algorithm so it's a little less annoying? 

TIA.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Send me a pm to remind me please. 
-Philip



Redhotrotor said:


> Can I have my original screen name back? Redhotrotor is my porn star name. I try not to mix too much business with pleasure. You sound like someone who might understand.
> 
> k. Thx!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

MTBRadmin said:


> Will there be something for me in my PM box later?
> -Philip


I'm surprised it took Finch 6 hours before he hit on you.  Usually he's on top of it a bit quicker.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

You do not have enough rep points to make a request like that at this time, sorry. 
-Philip



Redhotrotor said:


> Can you adjust DJ's algorithm so it's a little less annoying?
> 
> TIA.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Redhotrotor said:


> Can you adjust DJ's algorithm so it's a little less annoying?
> 
> TIA.


Excuse me, could you at least wait until I leave the room.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

mack_turtle said:


> I would lobby for the end of the "rep" system. I know a few forums where you can "thank" someone for a post and see how many "thanks" a post receives. there is no cheap option for negative feedback, so if you want to tell someone off, you need to do it directly. I like that.


THIS THIS THIS!!!!!!!!!!! Having a negative rep option is pointless.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I'm surprised it took Finch 6 hours before he hit on you.  Usually he's on top of it a bit quicker.


Yeah? So where's a link to a Seinfeld sketch, huh?

Slacker.


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## Redhotrotor (Jun 25, 2018)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Excuse me, could you at least wait until I leave the room.


I really can't tell, cuz the smell. It lingers. lol!


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## Redhotrotor (Jun 25, 2018)

MTBRadmin said:


> You do not have enough rep points to make a request like that at this time, sorry.
> -Philip


Yeah, it's a pretty tall order. But, you seem like someone who likes a challenge. lol!


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## tealy (Mar 7, 2013)

okay


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

-Philip



Redhotrotor said:


> Yeah, it's a pretty tall order. But, you seem like someone who likes a challenge. lol!


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

tealy said:


> Delete the Gravel Bike forum. Give us a Skills forum.
> 
> Thanks.


Skills forum has been proposed to the mod team. Gravel Bike for and the E-Bike forum are going to stay. You you may have to scroll past them really fast to try to ignore them.
-Philip


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

tealy said:


> Delete the Gravel Bike forum.


I don't have, need, or want a gravel bike, but why should I care that there's a gravel bike sub forum? :skep:


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## Redhotrotor (Jun 25, 2018)

MTBRadmin said:


> View attachment 1205329
> 
> 
> -Philip


Is it because I'm not black?


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

slowpoker said:


> I don't have, need, or want a gravel bike, but why should I care that there's a gravel bike sub forum? :skep:


I nearly bought a pair of gravel bike tires for my commuter but only cause they looked like snake skin and had better road performance reviews than most of the other tires I looked at. So do more people here hate the gravel bike forum, the e-bike forum or the fat bike forum? I am trying to understand where most of you stand here. 
-Philip


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

MTBRadmin said:


> I nearly bought a pair of gravel bike tires for my commuter but only cause they looked like snake skin and had better road performance reviews than most of the other tires I looked at. So do more people here hate the gravel bike forum, the e-bike forum or the fat bike forum? I am trying to understand where most of you stand here.
> -Philip


Just to be clear, I have no issues with gravel bikes. Just curious why someone would want that forum deleted.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

slowpoker said:


> Just to be clear, I have no issues with gravel bikes. Just curious why someone would want that forum deleted.


It has been more active than the CX forum, but I'm with you, I just simply visit what I'm interested in.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Cool.
Job#1
Make it 10 billion times easier to post pics.
Also, this site is full of bugs. It's a chore to type from my phone.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2018)

jestep said:


> Or at least rename it the human assisted motor bike forum...


E-Mopeds Forum


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> Cool.
> Job#1
> Make it 10 billion times easier to post pics.
> Also, this site is full of bugs. It's a chore to type from my phone.


Why is it hard for you to post pics?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Perma Bann tealy.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Finch Platte said:


> Why is it hard for you to post pics?


I think it's because I'm old.

How about a pic icon that brings me directly to my phone's gallery like every single other media site I use.


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## bloodypalms (May 30, 2018)

MTBRadmin said:


> This site is already wallpapered in advertising, I am not sure there is room for more.
> I am not aware of what ad bombardment happened on WaltherForums.com. That site would have always had ads, we acquired that way. As a rule we don't allow ads on our network to pop up, pop under or otherwise block you from viewing any content. If you where using tapatalk on the site the ads served by tapatalk are managed by them since you are using their platform to view the site. Now if you did get ads that popped up or redirected you its likley part of a problem that is internet wide and not just part of our network of sites. There has been an on going battle with ad networks and a series of re-occuring ads that would happen on mobile and try to redirect you to amazon or tell you that you won something. Despite the popular opinion on our network that we created this it was on a number of sites including multiple news sites.
> 
> -Philip


What are these "ads" things that people are going on about?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> I think it's because I'm old.
> 
> How about a pic icon that brings me directly to my phone's gallery like every single other media site I use.


Your reason doesn't jive. Because the mtbr way is the old way. The simpler pic icon method is the new hotness and SHOULD be the way you don't understand.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

MTBRadmin said:


> I nearly bought a pair of gravel bike tires for my commuter but only cause they looked like snake skin and had better road performance reviews than most of the other tires I looked at. So do more people here hate the gravel bike forum, the e-bike forum or the fat bike forum? I am trying to understand where most of you stand here.
> -Philip


Too many uptight members uptight about forums they don't visit. Makes sense to me.ut:

That's why God created the scroll past technique.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Lemonaid said:


> My only wish is that the new owners please make the site objective and as free from industry influence as much as possible.
> 
> ...and add a MTB skills forum


I like that.

And we need to prune/delete a bunch of forums. We'll start another thread to dial it in with your recommendations.

fc


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm here for the humor, most of the time. Gotta say that this is the funniest thread I've read in a long time. 

Oh, while you're making improvements, could you please try to offer spelling and punctuation help to those who need it? MTBRs are an illiterate group, except for the ladies. Somehow they seem more edumacated.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

127.0.0.1 said:


> shimano 12 speed discussions have been getting killed ? are you serious ?
> 
> holy moly if this is true.


Well, no.

On occasion, when a manufacturer's website is hacked or very sensitive info/photos is leaked, we might attempt to delete photos and inform the poster.

That's rare though, cause once on the web, it's usually impossible for us to contain anyway.


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## UPSed (Dec 26, 2010)

MTBRadmin said:


> Next someone will be asking for a unicycling forum!
> -Philip


Make that MUNI cycling.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Create a Thunderdome thread where you can post without being banned. 

Bring back the banned.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

Welcome, Philip.

I'd like to suggest that singlespeeders be given special status and privileges. Everyone knows that singlespeeders are more knowledgeable and insightful, and, quite frankly, just better people in general. That should be rewarded here.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

MTBRadmin said:


> I nearly bought a pair of gravel bike tires for my commuter but only cause they looked like snake skin and had better road performance reviews than most of the other tires I looked at. So do more people here hate the gravel bike forum, the e-bike forum or the fat bike forum? I am trying to understand where most of you stand here.
> -Philip


E-bike is by far the most hated. If it's a forum about actual bicycles, most of us are ok with it. Folding bikes forum could just live within the Commuting forum, though.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2018)

bloodypalms said:


> What are these "ads" things that people are going on about?
> 
> View attachment 1205345


The pop-up ads are everywhere Hairy Palms...please make them stop.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Overall it's a great forum. Deleting of some of the spy shots sucks, but I understand that you need to maintain relationships in order to get access. 
Keep Norcal rule free! It's my favorite corner of this forum and if there is pertinent info in there it's easy to search.

Pop up ads and malware on the phone needs attention.


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## Clayncedar (Aug 25, 2016)

Seriously, get the e-bike crap off the trailbuilding forum now.

It doesn't belong there and is distracting and divisive.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> Overall it's a great forum. Deleting of some of the spy shots sucks, but I understand that you need to maintain relationships in order to get access.
> Keep Norcal rule free! It's my favorite corner of this forum and if there is pertinent info in there it's easy to search.
> 
> Pop up ads and malware on the phone needs attention.


Oh yeah, Norcal should be about Norcal and not about things that belong in other forums.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Bring back Forum 88.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Geralt said:


> Welcome, Philip.
> 
> I'd like to suggest that singlespeeders be given special status and privileges. Everyone knows that singlespeeders are more knowledgeable and insightful, and, quite frankly, just better people in general. That should be rewarded here.


This man is wise. Very wise.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

What about Pete.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

MTBRadmin said:


> The ebike forum will not be removed,
> 
> I will be taking a look a the flow of things with the mod team over the next few weeks and do appreciate everyone's feedback so please keep it coming.
> -Philip


Getting rid of the ebike forum could reduce potential user hits for this site, so wouldn't make any sense to get rid of it.... unfortunately 

But, how about moving the ebike forum out from under the "Classic Mountain Bike" subforum and creating a new subforum just for ebikes like the "regional bike trails" and "mtb manufactures forums" have?

That way there could be specific sub forums under ebike forum like; factory built ebikes, diy ebikes, ebike specific components, ebike accessories, great legal ebike trails, ebike advocacy, ebike tuning, class 1 & 2, class 3, ebikes for ohv only, batteries & chargers, ebike motors, ebike programming and controllers, ebike computers, etc.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

singletrackmack said:


> Getting ride of the ebike forum could reduce potential user hits for this site, so wouldn't make any sense to get ride of it.... unfortunately
> 
> But, how about moving the ebike forum out from under the "Classic Mountain Bike" subforum and creating a new subforum just for ebikes like the "regional bike trails" and "mtb manufactures forums" have?
> 
> That way there could be specific sub forums under ebike forum like; factory built ebikes, diy ebikes, ebike specific components, ebike accessories, great legal ebike trails, ebike advocacy, ebike tuning, class 1 & 2, class 3, ebikes for ohv only, batteries & chargers, ebike motors, ebike programming and controllers, ebike computers, etc.


Makes sense. :thumbsup:


----------



## bloodypalms (May 30, 2018)

griz said:


> The pop-up ads are everywhere Hairy Palms...please make them stop.


User error.

If folks can't figure out how to easily block ads, including pop-ups, then they have nobody to blame but themselves.


----------



## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Jayem said:


> What about Pete.


Bring back all the troglodytes.


----------



## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

bloodypalms said:


> User error.
> 
> If folks can't figure out how to easily block ads, including pop-ups, then they have nobody to blame but themselves.


Until large companies will require you to disable an ad blocker to use the site or pay for it.
(Such as a large company like Clear Channel)


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

DeadGrandpa said:


> Oh, while you're making improvements, could you please try to offer spelling and punctuation help to those who need it?


Seriously. Though this is a bicycle forum, many (most?) don't seem to know the difference between "pedal" and "peddle." Tsk, tsk. This is just the tip... the iceberg is huge.

Welcome, Philip.
=sParty


----------



## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Instead of showing the time a post was made like, 1 hour ago............3 days ago...........1 week ago. Just show the date and time it actually happened..........6/27/18 12:31


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

MTBRadmin said:


> Next someone will be asking for a unicycling forum!
> -Philip


I would be rather surprised if we do not already have one.

I would caution against giving forum users what they ask for! Think of us like children who don't know what's good for them. Years ago I was on a Hi-Fi forum that took pride in the fact there was no moderation at all. No censorship of any kind. The guys who ran the forum thought it was a good idea, the users loved it, total disaster. It got to the point where you were afraid to log on as you didn't know what poison and vitriol you'd be faced with. The forum became legendary for all the wrong reasons and failed, hard.



Black Squirrel said:


> Having a negative rep option is pointless.


I'm not so sure. Relative to most other forums I've been on, and I've been on a lot, this place is very civilized and friendly. Perhaps the neg-rep function contributes to that by allowing people to hit back at someone without doing it in the public eye. I'm guessing, but considering how well balanced the forum is I would be reluctant to to make fundamental structure changes in a hurry. Things have probably ended up this way as much by accident as design but no matter, it's a good forum.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Yeah, about that eBike forum. So it stays eh? Ok, I get that, but can't it maybe be invisible or something? You need a password to see it?


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

about ads

I would not ever use an ad blocker ads were not animated. 

ads don't bother me if they are static. since everyone has to animate everything, I block everything, all sites. you have a web site that says 'we see you are using an ad blocker' I close the site immediately and go somewhere else.

why the F don't these marketing idiots get it ? ffs,


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

127.0.0.1 said:


> I block everything, all sites. you have a web site that says 'we see you are using an ad blocker' I close the site immediately and go somewhere else.


A valid point. We have enough choices that we don't need to tolerate intrusive and excessive advertising. There is a car magazine site I used to visit all the time. There is now as much advertising as content and I no longer go there.

With so many social media options today, unless a pleasant user experience is provided people just won't stay.


----------



## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

chazpat said:


> E-bike is by far the most hated. If it's a forum about actual bicycles, most of us are ok with it. Folding bikes forum could just live within the Commuting forum, though.


I dont' get how an e-bike forum causes a problem for you, or anyone. No matter how you access these forums, a separate forum for e-bikes (or unicycles, or gravel bikes, or whatever) gives you (and everyone) the option of just easily ignoring it. Don't click on it. Skip over it. The primary reason the e-bike forum gets contentious is that the outraged self-righteous "true" mountain bikers just can't restrain themselves from wading in to that forum that they hate SO much and off-topic rendering their angry disdain for the entire concept of e-bikes.

I have zero interest in gravel bikes, unicycles, trail building..probably MOST of the forums/threads here are of no interest to me or that I disagree with. I don't bother to whine about their existence on this website...I just don't click on posts there, or on any post with a thread title that doesn't interest me.


----------



## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Suggestions for New Forums:

Flats vs Clipless 
Spandex vs Baggies
General Pissing and Moaning
Why E-bikes are Bad
Does Using Strava Make you an A-Hole?
Trail Etiquette
Mysterious Bike Noises 
Awesome Strap

Wait, maybe not a good idea - there'll be nothing left for General Discussion.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Yesterday I was on some site with the most annoying ad I'd seen in a long time. It was for a grocery store and just s very quick loop of zooming in on some ice-cream then back out. It was so distracting having that going on in my peripheral vision that I couldn't read anything on the page.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Seriously. Though this is a bicycle forum, many (most?) don't seem to know the difference between "pedal" and "peddle." Tsk, tsk. This is just the tip... the iceberg is huge.
> 
> Welcome, Philip.
> =sParty


Yeah, like everyone typing three periods instead of a proper ellipsis character (&#8230!

The spelling does drive me crazy but for some members, English is not their first language. So maybe make people state their first language when they register and have an algorithm that checks that when they post and give them a big red "F" if they spell bike components wrong. Or maybe don't.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Cuyuna said:


> The primary reason the e-bike forum gets contentious is that the outraged self-righteous "true" mountain bikers just can't restrain themselves from wading in to that forum that they hate SO much and off-topic rendering their angry disdain for the entire concept of e-bikes.


This is not a true representation of the facts.

It doesn't really matter why many bikers do not like eBikes, the fact is they don't. With the industry pushing them so hard, and forums being forced to play along, there is the possibility that a forum which took a stand against them might gain a lot of friends!


----------



## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Seriously. Though this is a bicycle forum, many (most?) don't seem to know the difference between "pedal" and "peddle."


Come on, give 'em a brake.


----------



## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> This is not a true representation of the facts.
> 
> It doesn't really matter why many bikers do not like eBikes, the fact is they don't. With the industry pushing them so hard, and forums being forced to play along, there is the possibility that a forum which took a stand against them might gain a lot of friends!


So, you think that e-bikes are not going to become increasingly popular in the coming years? That a bicycle discussion website "taking a stand" against them wouldn't be cutting themselves off from a fast-growing segment of biking and actually _lose_ a lot of friends? Nah. I think it makes a lot more sense to cater to _all_ mountain bikers and just encourage the true believers to stay in their own lane.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Cuyuna said:


> So, you think that e-bikes are not going to become increasingly popular in the coming years?


Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? Where have I suggested I believe any such thing?

The fact that cycling has historically always been a human-powered endeavor is fundamental to its appeal. Motorized activities have fans too but I believe the difference between the two is critical enough that they do not belong in the same forum.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Cuyuna said:


> So, you think that e-bikes are not going to become increasingly popular in the coming years? That a bicycle discussion website "taking a stand" against them wouldn't be cutting themselves off from a fast-growing segment of biking and actually _lose_ a lot of friends? Nah. I think it makes a lot more sense to cater to _all_ mountain bikers and just encourage the true believers to stay in their own lane.


Ebiking isn't our sport for most of the people on this site. Go start an ebike forum on a dedicated motorcycle site and see how welcome you are there. They won't consider ebikes to be their sport either, just as you don't consider ebiking to be part of the sport of motorcycling. Ebikes are not bicycles and they are not motorcycles, they need to establish their own identity and quit trying to hang on to something that already exists.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

singletrackmack said:


> Getting rid of the ebike forum could reduce potential user hits for this site, so wouldn't make any sense to get rid of it.... unfortunately
> 
> But, how about moving the ebike forum out from under the "Classic Mountain Bike" subforum and creating a new subforum just for ebikes like the "regional bike trails" and "mtb manufactures forums" have?
> 
> That way there could be specific sub forums under ebike forum like; factory built ebikes, diy ebikes, ebike specific components, ebike accessories, great legal ebike trails, ebike advocacy, ebike tuning, class 1 & 2, class 3, ebikes for ohv only, batteries & chargers, ebike motors, ebike programming and controllers, ebike computers, etc.


how about bulldozing the ebike forum off the edge of the flat earth where maybe someone over there will appreciate it

I kid I kid...but srsly


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

chazpat said:


> . Ebikes are not bicycles and they are not motorcycles, they need to establish their own identity and quit trying to hang on to something that already exists.


This. They are simply different. Start ebikereview.com and be done with it.

MTBR has too many damn forums. Overlap, tiny categories that don't make sense anymore (or ever), duplication, etc.

Consolidate and eliminate the fluff to make the place easier to navigate and easier to find the content you want.

My vote is to sink the norcal forum. Move all the topics to the relevant subforums.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Harold said:


> Consolidate and eliminate the fluff to make the place easier to navigate and easier to find the content you want.


Agree. As a committed long-term user I find it impossible to check all of the forums, and I devote a lot of time to this place! These days I use the 'New Post' button to look for new threads but even that is limited as busy periods soon push posts off the page.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

chazpat said:


> Yesterday I was on some site with the most annoying ad I'd seen in a long time. It was for a grocery store and just s very quick loop of zooming in on some ice-cream then back out. It was so distracting having that going on in my peripheral vision that I couldn't read anything on the page.


But you bought the ice cream, didn't you. Admit it.
=sParty


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Harold said:


> This. They are simply different. Start ebikereview.com and be done with it.
> 
> MTBR has too many damn forums. Overlap, tiny categories that don't make sense anymore (or ever), duplication, etc.
> 
> ...


I'm with Harold on creating an Emountainbikereview.com website. Additional ad revenue for the owner and if any of us do decide to convert, we can go there for ebike content.

As for the NorCal forum. It should stay just as it is today, please. We're a "special" bunch and deserve our own space. Oh and maybe our own bus, a really short one.


----------



## kubikeman (Jun 4, 2010)

@Philip: I know we're on the forums and most of the suggestions so far have been related to that, but I think you need to take a look at the whole review section of MTBR. It's in the name! When I first started visiting this site, it was the review section that brought me here. Whenever I was considering a new part, this was the first place I'd look. Now, frankly, it's the last place I look. I honestly don't perceive this site to have the best content when I'm looking to geek out on the latest tech.

Reviews of products are often short, with little personality, and direct comparisons of products are increasingly hard to come by. I'd love to see more head to head content. And photos; I love looking at huge, high resolution photos. I'm honestly pretty lazy when I see thumbnails that pop-up a slow slideshow at the bottom of the page. Having one page to scroll through and view all the content would be swell.

This site has good bones, but it could use a 2018 makeover.


----------



## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> The fact that cycling has historically always been a human-powered endeavor is fundamental to its appeal.


Bah. For the vast majority of human history, _everything_ was a human-powered endeavor. Time marches on. Technology advances. Your argument reminds me of my benighted surgeon colleagues that piss and moan about the looming trend toward robotic surgery. "_but..but..but surgery has historically been a human powered endeavor_".

Anyway, who gives a crap _how_ the endeavor is powered? (_never mind...I know the answer to that..._)


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

kubikeman said:


> When I first started visiting this site, it was the review section that brought me here. Whenever I was considering a new part, this was the first place I'd look. Now, frankly, it's the last place I look.


Actually, this is true of me too.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Sparticus said:


> Seriously. Though this is a bicycle forum, many (most?) don't seem to know the difference between "pedal" and "peddle."





the one ring said:


> Come on, give 'em a brake.


At least most of them have got the forks and front shock thing figured out.


----------



## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Harold said:


> This. They are simply different. Start ebikereview.com and be done with it.


Yep. The only ebike forums that thrive and are successful are stand alone forums where they have a safe space. If they are mixed into a bike forum, they just flail.


----------



## snowjnky (Oct 7, 2005)

MTBRadmin said:


> Noted. If you have ideas for how to make the time you spend here better let me know.
> -Philip


bring back f-88.


----------



## snowjnky (Oct 7, 2005)

Lemonaid said:


> My only wish is that the new owners please make the site objective and as free from industry influence as much as possible.
> 
> ...and add a MTB skills forum


hear hear !


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Lemonaid said:


> My only wish is that the new owners please make the site objective and as free from industry influence as much as possible.
> 
> ...and add a MTB skills forum


What lemonaid said.

And add TLS/SSL support. Tired of sending my username and password in the clear.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

matadorCE said:


> Can you get rid of the e-bike forum? k thanks!


Yes this too.


----------



## snowjnky (Oct 7, 2005)

Vader said:


> Bring back Forum 88.


this. 
nothing else just this.


----------



## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Add a bot that parses the first post of a new thread to determine if it contains a question easily answered with a Google search. If so, instead of starting the new thread, send a PM to the OP containing recommended search strings.

Make this mandatory for new users, and for Picard and his socks.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

WHALENARD said:


> Cool.
> Job#1
> Make it 10 billion times easier to post pics.
> Also, this site is full of bugs. It's a chore to type from my phone.


This will be addressed with adding new mobile skin to the site.



WHALENARD said:


> I think it's because I'm old.
> 
> How about a pic icon that brings me directly to my phone's gallery like every single other media site I use.


This will be much easier as soon as the mobile skin is installed. Should be within the next two weeks but likely sooner.



DeadGrandpa said:


> I'm here for the humor, most of the time. Gotta say that this is the funniest thread I've read in a long time.
> 
> Oh, while you're making improvements, could you please try to offer spelling and punctuation help to those who need it? MTBRs are an illiterate group, except for the ladies. Somehow they seem more edumacated.


There is a browser plugin for this.



UPSed said:


> Make that MUNI cycling.


Those hatchets are pretty rad, not had the pleasure of riding one yet. I only recently upgraded to a 26x3 Qu-Ax from my probably 15 year old 24x3 Bedford/KH.



Geralt said:


> Welcome, Philip.
> 
> I'd like to suggest that singlespeeders be given special status and privileges. Everyone knows that singlespeeders are more knowledgeable and insightful, and, quite frankly, just better people in general. That should be rewarded here.


Like maybe an avatar that looks like this?











alexbn921 said:


> Overall it's a great forum. Deleting of some of the spy shots sucks, but I understand that you need to maintain relationships in order to get access.
> Keep Norcal rule free! It's my favorite corner of this forum and if there is pertinent info in there it's easy to search.
> 
> Pop up ads and malware on the phone needs attention.


A mobile skin for the site is on its way. This should help with the malware attack ads you may have been getting.



singletrackmack said:


> Getting rid of the ebike forum could reduce potential user hits for this site, so wouldn't make any sense to get rid of it.... unfortunately
> 
> But, how about moving the ebike forum out from under the "Classic Mountain Bike" subforum and creating a new subforum just for ebikes like the "regional bike trails" and "mtb manufactures forums" have?
> 
> That way there could be specific sub forums under ebike forum like; factory built ebikes, diy ebikes, ebike specific components, ebike accessories, great legal ebike trails, ebike advocacy, ebike tuning, class 1 & 2, class 3, ebikes for ohv only, batteries & chargers, ebike motors, ebike programming and controllers, ebike computers, etc.


A re ordering is in order here for sure. I will be going over this with the mod team to best sort out how this will be managed.



tom erb said:


> Instead of showing the time a post was made like, 1 hour ago............3 days ago...........1 week ago. Just show the date and time it actually happened..........6/27/18 12:31


This should be in your user control panel. Go to your PMS then look to the list on the left it will have all the custom controls for your account.



Mr Pig said:


> Yeah, about that eBike forum. So it stays eh? Ok, I get that, but can't it maybe be invisible or something? You need a password to see it?


I feel that way about letting them ride in the bike lane, require a password. 
-Philip


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Can l suggest that we have more tits.......


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

cmg71 said:


> Can l suggest that we have more tits.......


That would require surgery to add the third one.


----------



## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Sparticus said:


> But you bought the ice cream, didn't you. Admit it.
> =sParty


Naw, he just blew a seal.


----------



## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

kubikeman said:


> @Philip: I know we're on the forums and most of the suggestions so far have been related to that, but I think you need to take a look at the whole review section of MTBR. It's in the name! When I first started visiting this site, it was the review section that brought me here. Whenever I was considering a new part, this was the first place I'd look. Now, frankly, it's the last place I look. I honestly don't perceive this site to have the best content when I'm looking to geek out on the latest tech.
> 
> Reviews of products are often short, with little personality, and direct comparisons of products are increasingly hard to come by. I'd love to see more head to head content. And photos; I love looking at huge, high resolution photos. I'm honestly pretty lazy when I see thumbnails that pop-up a slow slideshow at the bottom of the page. Having one page to scroll through and view all the content would be swell.
> 
> This site has good bones, but it could use a 2018 makeover.


Everything you've said, times a bazikillion.


----------



## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

the one ring said:


> Add a bot that parses the first post of a new thread to determine if it contains a question easily answered with a Google search. If so, instead of starting the new thread, send a PM to the OP containing recommended search strings.
> 
> Make this mandatory for new users, and for Picard and his socks.


Yah yah yah yah!!!


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

127.0.0.1 said:


> about ads
> 
> I would not ever use an ad blocker ads were not animated.
> 
> ...


With forums I can tell you that guests always see more ads than users do. The reason for this is guest traffic is like your neighbor that wanders into your party, drinks your beer, stares at everyone without talking to them and then leaves. The hope is while they where sitting on the couch drinking your beer and listening to everyone else that the change in their pockets fell out into your couch cushions. Ad revenue is what pays the bills here to keep the lights on and the fridges stocked. We don't shake down members cause you are contributing to the conversation and the community. We do however try to make sure that the guests will trip over a few ads on the way in and the way out. We also don't punish users who chose to run ad blockers we only silently judge you and talk about that time we saw you on a e-bike.



Mr Pig said:


> A valid point. We have enough choices that we don't need to tolerate intrusive and excessive advertising. There is a car magazine site I used to visit all the time. There is now as much advertising as content and I no longer go there.
> With so many social media options today, unless a pleasant user experience is provided people just won't stay.


I doubt you would see more ads here than you already see.



Gasp4Air said:


> Suggestions for New Forums:
> 
> Flats vs Clipless
> Spandex vs Baggies
> ...


I think the mod team might all quit if I added that many more fightclub style forums.



chazpat said:


> Yesterday I was on some site with the most annoying ad I'd seen in a long time. It was for a grocery store and just s very quick loop of zooming in on some ice-cream then back out. It was so distracting having that going on in my peripheral vision that I couldn't read anything on the page.


Did it make you want icecream?



chazpat said:


> Yeah, like everyone typing three periods instead of a proper ellipsis character (&#8230!
> 
> The spelling does drive me crazy but for some members, English is not their first language. So maybe make people state their first language when they register and have an algorithm that checks that when they post and give them a big red "F" if they spell bike components wrong. Or maybe don't.


Tyre vs. Tire. Both English just depends on what side of the pond they ride.



Mr Pig said:


> Agree. As a committed long-term user I find it impossible to check all of the forums, and I devote a lot of time to this place! These days I use the 'New Post' button to look for new threads but even that is limited as busy periods soon push posts off the page.


You can subscribe to only a handful of specific forums and get alerts as those forums are updated.



chuckha62 said:


> I'm with Harold on creating an Emountainbikereview.com website. Additional ad revenue for the owner and if any of us do decide to convert, we can go there for ebike content.
> 
> As for the NorCal forum. It should stay just as it is today, please. We're a "special" bunch and deserve our own space. Oh and maybe our own bus, a really short one.














kubikeman said:


> @Philip: I know we're on the forums and most of the suggestions so far have been related to that, but I think you need to take a look at the whole review section of MTBR. It's in the name! When I first started visiting this site, it was the review section that brought me here. Whenever I was considering a new part, this was the first place I'd look. Now, frankly, it's the last place I look. I honestly don't perceive this site to have the best content when I'm looking to geek out on the latest tech.
> 
> Reviews of products are often short, with little personality, and direct comparisons of products are increasingly hard to come by. I'd love to see more head to head content. And photos; I love looking at huge, high resolution photos. I'm honestly pretty lazy when I see thumbnails that pop-up a slow slideshow at the bottom of the page. Having one page to scroll through and view all the content would be swell.
> 
> This site has good bones, but it could use a 2018 makeover.


I am running this up the chain. thank you for your input.



stripes said:


> What lemonaid said.
> And add TLS/SSL support. Tired of sending my username and password in the clear.


Thats one its way. vBulletin was never set up with SSL support in mind. Right now we have been rolling out SSL support across the VS network and we should be completed by the end of July. MTBR will be added to the list but I want to get a bunch of other little things sorted here before we launch something that will create a bunch of new bugs.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

chazpat said:


> The spelling does drive me crazy but for some members, English is not their first language.


Are you talking about Americans?


----------



## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Hi Philip, welcome to the nut house!

No complaints as long as we can continue to keep it real. I think the mods do a good job of stepping in only when needed (and sometimes is definitely is).

Only suggestion I can think of offhand would be to add a forum where we could post up the latest news and sightings of Matt Chester.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

kubikeman said:


> Whenever I was considering a new part, this was the first place I'd look. Now, frankly, it's the last place I look.





Mr Pig said:


> Actually, this is true of me too.


And me as well. I used to look at the user reviews of products and of trails. I guess the reviews on store sites and Trailforks/MTB project siphoned all that off?


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> But you bought the ice cream, didn't you. Admit it.
> =sParty


No, we already had some.

Which I did eat.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

btw, I'm getting Mackeeper redirects today; it has been an annoying virus scam for years. Mac using Safari.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

chuckha62 said:


> That would require surgery to add the third one.


I was born with 3 nipples.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

chazpat said:


> btw, I'm getting Mackeeper redirects today; it has been an annoying virus scam for years. Mac using Safari.


Looking into this. You are only seeing these on desktop?
-Philip


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

cmg71 said:


> Can l suggest that we have more tits.......


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Here is a pair of "Great Tits" for you.










-Philip



cmg71 said:


> Can l suggest that we have more tits.......


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

MTBRadmin said:


> Looking into this. You are only seeing these on desktop?
> -Philip


Yes, haven't tried my phone (Android). Just opened a bunch of threads and most of them forwarded to MacKeeper.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

The site has not yet been moved to our ad network. This should be happening soon. 
-Philip



chazpat said:


> Yes, haven't tried my phone (Android). Just opened a bunch of threads and most of them forwarded to MacKeeper.


----------



## Speireag (Jun 13, 2018)

Verticalscope has been buying up motorcycle, outdoor, motorsports, .... every sort of forums for years. This is not a good move for this site - after every forum buyout came increased and embedded ads. I'd expect no different here. They're a huge company that focuses on ad delivery over their entire network. That's the business.

Check out their collection on their own website under "Verticals" in the top toolbar.

https://www.verticalscope.com/

Really unfortunate that this is happening. If you all haven't seen what VS has done to other forums, you're in for an unfortunate surprise. Google the name, and you'll find that everything goes downhill shortly after.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Speireag said:


> Verticalscope has been buying up motorcycle forums for years. This is not a good move for this site. After every forum buyout came increased and embedded ads. I'd expect no different here.
> 
> Really unfortunate that this is happening. If you all haven't seen what VS has done to other forums, you're in for an unfortunate surprise.


Yikers! Philip, FC, is there more to this buy out than what's being led on?


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Loving all the tits,

except this one, looks like its got ears, and evil ones at that, seems it can pop em up or down.

Never trust a tit with ears (words to live by)



127.0.0.1 said:


>


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Mr Pig said:


> Are you talking about Americans?


You never pass up an opportunity, do you Pig? 
=sParty


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

We need a sasquatch forum.
Pretty certain I probably might have seen something once.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yikers! Philip, FC, is there more to this buy out than what's being led on?


You can judge for your self if these communities are that bad when you look at the list of sites he mentioned. I do suggest actually registering and viewing the site like a regular user and not a guest. If you have a problem with anything I do you are welcome to discuss it with me. So far I have been open to hearing everyone's requests on how to make the time they spend on MTBR better for them. 
-Philip


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Cuyuna said:


> So, you think that e-bikes are not going to become increasingly popular in the coming years? That a bicycle discussion website "taking a stand" against them wouldn't be cutting themselves off from a fast-growing segment of biking and actually _lose_ a lot of friends? Nah. I think it makes a lot more sense to cater to _all_ mountain bikers and just encourage the true believers to stay in their own lane.


Fastest growing for how long? When the suckers that buy them find out there are few places to legally ride them the segment will die thankfully.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Was it riding a Matt Chester?
-Philip



WHALENARD said:


> We need a sasquatch forum.
> Pretty certain I probably might have seen something once.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Speireag said:


> Verticalscope has been buying up motorcycle, outdoor, motorsports, .... every sort of forums for years. This is not a good move for this site - after every forum buyout came increased and embedded ads. I'd expect no different here. They're a huge company that focuses on ad delivery over their entire network. That's the business.
> 
> Check out their collection on their own website under "Verticals" in the top toolbar.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I'll finally be able to break my MTBR addiction...
=sParty


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Fueled by the ever growing population of aging couch to casual rider. When your back starts to give out you give up your drops and raise your bars/stem. When your knees give out you give up pedaling.
-Philip



life behind bars said:


> Fastest growing for how long? When the suckers that buy them find out there are few places to legally ride them the segment will die thankfully.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

You may re-evaluate this after we get mobile working on here. 
-Philip



Sparticus said:


> Perhaps I'll finally be able to break my MTBR addiction...
> =sParty


----------



## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

life behind bars said:


> When the suckers that buy them find out there are few places to legally ride them the segment will die thankfully.


Which is why they're pushing like crazy to get them allowed and treated like a bicycle and not a motorized vehicle.

I love seeing the 10 bagillion Watt AM bikes designed so you don't have to take the lift at all. 30mph uphill without breaking a sweat but of course it's not actually a motorized bike.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

^wow
Speireag been here for 1 week and already telling us how it's going down


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## mbmtb (Nov 28, 2013)

Oh now you've waded right into it!

Anyway as to ads:
MTBR and maybe a Verticalscope forum are what pushed me over the edge to install an ad-blocker after not running one for a decade.
The MTBR ads are way worse than the Verticalscope ones, which are worse than most places used to be but now days not too far off from 'normal'.

I wouldn't mind occasional relevant ads, or even constant tasteful ones in a sidebar. But multiple flashing things which re-arrange the web page and possibly are exploiting bugs to install malware? Time for an ad blocker!


----------



## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Full suspension bike for sell. :lol::lol::lol:


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

What this forum needs is more beer.

And Black Sabbath.


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## Speireag (Jun 13, 2018)

MTBRAdmin - To be fair, your business is to maximize ad revenue. If "improvement" drives increased viewership, then that's what I'm sure what you guys will do, but not because you care about the community here. Your business can't be to "care" about the community when you own hundreds of forums that have no relation to one another. But all four of the forums I've frequented that have been bought up by you guys have gone downhill. More ads, embedded ads, pop ups, ads between forum posts, etc etc etc. Less moderator interaction to keep the forums clean, and so on

I'm just dipping my feet into the MTB waters - registered just *days* ago - so it's rather disappointing to see you all get your hands on this website, too.


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## Speireag (Jun 13, 2018)

127.0.0.1 said:


> ^wow
> Speireag been here for 1 week and already telling us how it's going down


Yes, I'm new here. But what VS has been doing isn't new to me. I come from a motorcycling background and wanted to use MTB to get into shape and train, as there are a lot of skills that cross over for off road riding. Living in NC, we've got some fantastic off road motorcycling trails here, along with some of the best for MTB. Why not dabble in both?

I've personally watched VS acquire up sailing forums, archery forums, and motorcycle forums that I post(ed) on. It was never a great outcome for any of them. Ad presence went up, and moderator interaction went down. Viewership took a plunge on a few of those forums due to intrusive ads. VS has been trying to buy out another community that I post in for years.. Thankfully the owners there know what they've got, and value the community more than the paycheck.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

mbmtb said:


> Oh now you've waded right into it!
> 
> Anyway as to ads:
> MTBR and maybe a Verticalscope forum are what pushed me over the edge to install an ad-blocker after not running one for a decade.
> ...


Your browser experience is yours alone. We don't make you pay to view content here and also don't block you from viewing content if you choose to employ an ad blocker. I am glad you still contribute to the conversation and comradery. It makes little difference to me personally as long as you are nice. 
-Philip


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

I can tell you that forums in general are changing a lot and you can probably blame other forms of social media not just us. This site was owned by a company as was the many of the other sites we have acquired in recent years. The difference is the level of transparency we have. Moderators are volunteers for the most part and do as much work as they feel they need to do. We do our best to support the moderator teams and allow them to maintain the spirit of the site the way they started it. If this announcement was never posted you likely would not even have been able to tell I was from VS. 
-Philip



Speireag said:


> Yes, I'm new here. But what VS has been doing isn't new to me. I come from a motorcycling background and wanted to use MTB to get into shape and train, as there are a lot of skills that cross over for off road riding. Living in NC, we've got some fantastic off road motorcycling trails here, along with some of the best for MTB. Why not dabble in both?
> 
> I've personally watched VS acquire up sailing forums, archery forums, and motorcycle forums that I post(ed) on. It was never a great outcome for any of them. Ad presence went up, and moderator interaction went down. Viewership took a plunge on a few of those forums due to intrusive ads. VS has been trying to buy out another community that I post in for years.. Thankfully the owners there know what they've got, and value the community more than the paycheck.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Thanks for reporting this. 
-Philip



slowpoker said:


> Full suspension bike for sell. :lol::lol::lol:
> View attachment 1205477


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

MTBRadmin said:


> If this announcement was never posted you likely would not even have been able to tell I was from VS.
> -Philip


I don't know about that. I think the green horns and pink tail gave you away.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

-Philip



Curveball said:


> I don't know about that. I think the green horns and pink tail gave you away.


----------



## SADDLE TRAMP (Aug 26, 2010)

Something that I would like to see would be a sub-forum related to innovative thinking

A place to go or post and see how others have redirected the application something. 

How to make something cheaper than you can buy it.

Out of the 'box' custom frame thinking...and why.

Experiments with off the wall ideas for entertainment and who knows...some knowledge?

MacGyver bike skills...survival skills. 

Derailleur protection possibilites.

How to reduce the noise of a Rohloff.

Any daft wacked out ideas...a stab in the dark...to solve some concern. Someone just might provide something to make that idea worthwhile in a limited application; if just once.

What say ye? Too daft to be workable?


----------



## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Jayem said:


> What about Pete.


This makes me laugh every time.


----------



## michaelsnead (Aug 31, 2005)

*Help please!*



MTBRadmin said:


> .......I will be taking a look a the flow of things with the mod team over the next few weeks and do appreciate everyone's feedback so please keep it coming.
> -Philip


Hi Philip,

I haven't received email notifications of other posts to threads I've started or shared in since August of 2017. I got one admin telling me the problem isn't on your end and I should check my spam folder. I did and "mtbr.com" is noted as "always allow" so that isn't the issue. However, when I reported that info back to the admin I never heard from him again.

Any help you can provide to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, in advance....

Michael:thumbsup:


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

MTBRadmin said:


> You can judge for your self if these communities are that bad when you look at the list of sites he mentioned. I do suggest actually registering and viewing the site like a regular user and not a guest. If you have a problem with anything I do you are welcome to discuss it with me. So far I have been open to hearing everyone's requests on how to make the time they spend on MTBR better for them.
> -Philip


Nah, too much work for me and not enough time. I'll just sit back and enjoy this site and watch for changes, any new change that jumps out as worthy of discussing I'll hit you up. BTW I shouldn't have even replied to his troll post.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

SADDLE TRAMP said:


> .
> 
> What say ye? Too daft to be workable?


Sounds like it would be a great place to lurk and steal ideas for patents so someone can then sell the most workable ideas for a tidy profit.

Would also be a great place to learn how to kill yourself.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## adaycj (Sep 30, 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> Agree. As a committed long-term user I find it impossible to check all of the forums, and I devote a lot of time to this place! These days I use the 'New Post' button to look for new threads but even that is limited as busy periods soon push posts off the page.


I use that "New Post" button also. My real problem with the ebike mess is that it seems like 50% of the posts are somehow an ebike argument. Quite literally, I sometimes just click away to other far away places when I don't feel like trying to figure out where all the BS is.

This thread is case and point. The "e discussion" is quite a bit like a disease you can't really get rid of. I'm a little disappointed that the new owners were so quick to already state that that mess will stay.

Oh well, not my monkeys ... not my zoo.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

adaycj said:


> I use that "New Post" button also. My real problem with the ebike mess is that it seems like 50% of the posts are somehow an ebike argument. Quite literally, I sometimes just click away to other far away places when I don't feel like trying to figure out where all the BS is.
> 
> This thread is case and point. The "e discussion" is quite a bit like a disease you can't really get rid of. I'm a little disappointed that the new owners were so quick to already state that that mess will stay.
> 
> Oh well, not my monkeys ... not my zoo.


Maybe the new owners will see that the e-bikes need their own forums and get it off of here. Makes the most sense but we will see.


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Hello Philip, welcome to the peanut gallery!

I just scolded DJ for quoting an image I posted just to add a silly comment, now there's two of those images and his silly comment. I've seen on other forums where the quoted image will be collapsed so you don't get ten of the same image in a thread because people are too lazy to edit them out, it really clutters up threads. Is there any chance to get that feature set up here?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> Hello Philip, welcome to the peanut gallery!
> 
> I just scolded DJ for quoting an image I posted just to add a silly comment, now there's two of those images and his silly comment. I've seen on other forums where the quoted image will be collapsed so you don't get ten of the same image in a thread because people are too lazy to edit them out, it really clutters up threads. Is there any chance to get that feature set up here?


No.. too complicated.

Philip

Next question.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> ...too complicated.


No it isn't.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> No it isn't.


It really bothers you when someone quotes a photo post?


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> It really bothers you when someone quotes a photo post?


When you go look at "Did you ride today" type threads and you get ten people quoting the same picture, so you have to scroll past the same picture ten moar times, it's annoying AF. It's disregard for visual neatness, makes the place look cluttered and trashy. I can see quoting a picture from a ways back in a thread, or singling out one af many in a post to comment on, but not one right above your reply.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> When you go look at "Did you ride today" type threads and you get ten people quoting the same picture, so you have to scroll past the same picture ten moar times, it's annoying AF. It's disregard for visual neatness, makes the place look cluttered and trashy. I can see quoting a picture from a ways back in a thread, or singling out one af many in a post to comment on, but not one right above your reply.


Hmmm . . . doesn't bother me. Many do it though, I think it's easier for the person who originally posted the photo to skim along and find a reply to his or her post. Besides you might see something in the photo you missed the first time around.


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## jimw (Aug 10, 2004)

^^^ Actually glad someone mentioned that, it bugs the crap out of me when someone quotes an entire post (especially if it contains a bunch of pics) only to make a completely unrelated one line comment that you have to scroll through pages of quoted pics to get to. So yeah, anything to help clean up after the lazy people would be great.

Speaking of pics, pics posted via BBCode tags get resized to a ridiculously small size. This is not the case on many other forums I use. I host all my pics on another site and use BBCode to post them here, I don't need an easier way to post pictures, I just want to be able to post them via BBCode and not have them resized. The horizontal limit appears to be 550 pixels. I resize my externally hosted photos to 800 px in the long dimension. When I post here, this means that landscape pics get resized to the same width as portrait pics, which really makes trip report posts with pics look... lame.

Example pic, should be 800 px wide but displays here as 550 px wide:



Here's the actual BBCode (I wrapped it in

```
tags, couldn't see any other way to get the BBCode to show up w/o actually trying to display the picture):

[PHP][URL=https://s168.photobucket.com/user/jwintermyre/media/Misc_MtnBike/IMG_4511.jpg.html][IMG]https://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u164/jwintermyre/Misc_MtnBike/IMG_4511.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
```
There was actually a thread about this issue on the Site Feedback forum here:
https://forums.mtbr.com/site-feedback-issues/mtbr-screws-up-bbcode-embedded-photos-1067470.html

Ironically, the initial post apparently got screwed up by a virus so no longer shows the issue.


----------



## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

This thread rules - thanks to whoever shared it on Norcal!

And while I'm in the neighborhood:

Can we have an anti-antiEbikers forum where Ebiker enthusiasts talk sh!t about anti-Ebikers? - I personally don't ride bicycles, but that sounds like fun!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> Actually, this is true of me too.





DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Hmmm . . . doesn't bother me. Many do it though, I think it's easier for the person who originally posted the photo to skim along and find a reply to his or her post. Besides you might see something in the photo you missed the first time around.


Like a coyote? We may have to quote that post (and not edit out the image) a LOT more times.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chazpat said:


> Like a coyote? We may have to quote that post (and not edit out the image) a LOT more times.


That may have been Urban Legend, it's never been proven yay or nay.


----------



## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

Sparticus said:


> Seriously. Though this is a bicycle forum, many (most?) don't seem to know the difference between "pedal" and "peddle." Tsk, tsk. This is just the tip... the iceberg is huge.
> ...
> =sParty


Affirmation! At last! Thank you, Sparticus!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

^^^ oops, and can we have the multi-post turn off once you use it?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chazpat said:


> ^^^ oops, and can we have the multi-post turn off once you use it?


This ^


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

mr pig said:


> the fact that cycling has historically always been a human-powered endeavor is fundamental to its appeal.


this!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

adaycj said:


> Oh well, not my monkeys ... not my zoo.


Like that saying, I may steal that ;0)


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jimw said:


> ^^^ Actually glad someone mentioned that, it bugs the crap out of me when someone quotes an entire post (especially if it contains a bunch of pics) only to make a completely unrelated one line comment that you have to scroll through pages of quoted pics to get to. So yeah, anything to help clean up after the lazy people would be great.
> 
> Speaking of pics, pics posted via BBCode tags get resized to a ridiculously small size. This is not the case on many other forums I use. I host all my pics on another site and use BBCode to post them here, I don't need an easier way to post pictures, I just want to be able to post them via BBCode and not have them resized. The horizontal limit appears to be 550 pixels. I resize my externally hosted photos to 800 px in the long dimension. When I post here, this means that landscape pics get resized to the same width as portrait pics, which really makes trip report posts with pics look... lame.
> 
> ...


I get why the image sizing limit was installed. It was just done in a lazy way that sucks. I remember when there wasn't an image size limit, and people posting REALLY large images blew out the site layout. Especially on those photo threads. One bad post would wreck the entire thread, because the buttons to reply to the post would be off the page, and no scroll bars available to retrieve them. It was a mess. But the current solution is a hack that wrecks images. It sizes UP small images, too. I used to use HTML embeds when those were permitted, and IIRC, those weren't subject to resizing.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I always forget to un-check it!


DIRTJUNKIE said:


> This ^


Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

jcd46 said:


> I always forget to un-check it!
> 
> Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


Yep, and when you've had multiple quotes it's a MAJOR PITA to go back and uncheck them. Of course you don't realize it until the next time you post in that thread and there's multiple quotes added to your new post that make zero sense. And by the time you notice it and go back in to edit them out someone has caught it and commented. Then it's a multiple of members jumping in on something they are in the dark about because you've already went back in and deleted the quotes. The next thing you know you find yourself explaining where the error occurred. Of course by that time there's akteady 5 members confused as $&@t about it.

Did I mention it's a PITA?


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

First world problems eh?


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

If only there was a way to check your posts before you hit the Submit Reply button...


----------



## adaycj (Sep 30, 2009)

My mom isn't into quips, and usually is very quiet. One thing she did say a few times when I was a kid was "not my monkeys ... not my zoo". It was usually uttered when nearby kids were going bonkers, but she didn't feel she needed to intervene because it didn't appear anyone was going to die. It is her way to letting those around her know that she could see the ridiculousness of what was happening and wasn't oblivious. Oddly, as her kids we were offered no such leeway to act up.

My mom really had it wrong, and there is a saying "not my circus, not my monkeys" that is allegedly a polish proverb. I guess my mom isn't into quips because she can't get them right. 

I still like to think of that phrase and how she handles poo fights like the incessant ones that pop up nearly every day about ebikes. It really has very little impact on me, and it does not appear that anyone is going to die but I'm not oblivious to it either. 

But how about SRAM brakes Mr Pig? I'm not so sure someone isn't going to die ... poke.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

adaycj said:


> But how about SRAM brakes Mr Pig? I'm not so sure someone isn't going to die ... poke.


I assume people have been hurt by locking up SRAM brakes, we just haven't heard about it. My friend's brakes locked up so badly the wheels would hardly turn.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> If only there was a way to check your posts before you hit the Submit Reply button...


The multiple post replies don't fall off until you manually uncheck each post you quoted. It should automatically turn off once you make that post.


----------



## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Cornfield said:


> If only there was a way to check your posts before you hit the Submit Reply button...


I you are using the "Go Advanced" option it gives you the option to preview your post before submitting the post. If you're not using "Go Advanced" then start using it so you can preview your post.


----------



## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

woosh


----------



## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

huckleberry hound said:


> I you are using the "Go Advanced" option it gives you the option to preview your post before submitting the post. If you're not using "Go Advanced" then start using it so you can preview your post.


I think there was sarcasm on that post by Korn.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

....


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

huckleberry hound said:


> I you are using the "Go Advanced" option...


This strike you as a user group who would consider the 'advanced' option?


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> The multiple post replies don't fall off until you manually uncheck each post you quoted. It should automatically turn off once you make that post.


It's really easy to see how your post is going to look by hitting the Preview button before posting, which should show you the previous quotes are still there. I only browse the forum on my desktop, so I don't know how it is on a phone, but I would imagine it's not too hard to go back and edit.

Now it might be a PITA if you abuse the quote function and quote like 10-20 posts in one thread. 



huckleberry hound said:


> I you are using the "Go Advanced" option it gives you the option to preview your post before submitting the post. If you're not using "Go Advanced" then start using it so you can preview your post.


Thanks Huck!



net wurker said:


> woosh


Sounds you like...



jcd46 said:


> I think there was sarcasm on that post by Korn.


I'm going to see if I can recreate the lingering checked multi-quotes here, this is all going as planned! :lol:


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Great example for this being teh suck. Say you post something in a thread using multi quote. Then you come back a few days later and reply to someone else, forgetting entirely about the multi quote days before. You type your response and submit. Now your post contains a quote from not just what you replied to that day, but also everything you multi quoted days before.

It is a pain in the ass to manually have to deselect each previously quoted post before quoting someone else. No other forum I have ever posted in requires this.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Harold said:


> It is a pain in the ass to manually have to deselect each previously quoted post before quoting someone else. No other forum I have ever posted in requires this.


Testing: I'm not seeing any additional quotes in preview mode, let's see if there's anything after I hit submit.

No quotes other than Harold's, so this issue must be a phone or tablet thing, maybe thru Tapatalk?

I will say that it's happened to me once or twice a long time ago.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

What browser are you using? It happens for me on chrome in windows.


Cornfield said:


> Testing: I'm not seeing any additional quotes in preview mode, let's see if there's anything after I hit submit.


Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Harold said:


> What browser are you using? It happens for me on chrome in windows.


Firefox.

I've noticed that you guys on Tapatalk's quotes are showing up with the quote below your reply, been that way for a few months I think.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cornfield said:


> It's really easy to see how your post is going to look by hitting the Preview button before posting, which should show you the previous quotes are still there. I only browse the forum on my desktop, so I don't know how it is on a phone, but I would imagine it's not too hard to go back and edit.
> 
> Now it might be a PITA if you abuse the quote function and quote like 10-20 posts in one thread.
> 
> ...





Cornfield said:


> Testing: I'm not seeing any additional quotes in preview mode, let's see if there's anything after I hit submit.
> 
> No quotes other than Harold's, so this issue must be a phone or tablet thing, maybe thru Tapatalk?
> 
> I will say that it's happened to me once or twice a long time ago.





Cornfield said:


> Firefox.
> 
> I've noticed that you guys on Tapatalk's quotes are showing up with the quote below your reply, been that way for a few months I think.


The cursor starts above the quote, but you can move it

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

MTBR would be better if it didn't censor profanity.
Ya bastard!


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Harold said:


> The cursor starts above the quote, but you can move it


That's what I figured.

Cursor placement can be an issue in the ride pic threads. People need to hit enter a few times after their caption so the pic falls directly below the text.


----------



## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

posting ellohkwently on inernet forums taks scil n faness


----------



## jimw (Aug 10, 2004)

Harold said:


> I get why the image sizing limit was installed. It was just done in a lazy way that sucks. I remember when there wasn't an image size limit, and people posting REALLY large images blew out the site layout. Especially on those photo threads. One bad post would wreck the entire thread, because the buttons to reply to the post would be off the page, and no scroll bars available to retrieve them. It was a mess.


Sure. But at the very least, increase the minimum to something that makes sense for computer screens in 2018 (I assume stuff gets sized differently for mobile anyway).



> But the current solution is a hack that wrecks images. It sizes UP small images, too. I used to use HTML embeds when those were permitted, and IIRC, those weren't subject to resizing.


Wow, I didn't realize it also sizes UP small images. Super lame. Most of the other forums I post on work way better with externally hosted images. Please add this one to the list MTBRadmin!


----------



## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Cornfield said:


> Firefox.
> 
> I've noticed that you guys on Tapatalk's quotes are showing up with the quote below your reply, been that way for a few months I think.


Yeah, it changed with an update to the app. I use both, and on firefox, I have the multiple quote syndrome.

Tapatalk is much easier to load pictures and quote.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jcd46 said:


> Yeah, it changed with an update to the app. I use both, and on firefox, I have the multiple quote syndrome.
> 
> Tapatalk is much easier to load pictures and quote.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


Yeah, I don't get the multi quote problem on tapatalk

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harold said:


> It is a pain in the ass to manually have to deselect each previously quoted post before quoting someone else. No other forum I have ever posted in requires this.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Zackly!


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> That's what I figured.
> 
> Cursor placement can be an issue in the ride pic threads. People need to hit enter a few times after their caption so the pic falls directly below the text.


Like this?















Or, like this?

Or like this?














Or like this?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I welcome our new alien overlords with open arms. I already see that Cornfield is one of them.

They can harvest the organs from all you complainers.


----------



## b rock (Jan 5, 2017)

MTBRadmin said:


> Noted. If you have ideas for how to make the time you spend here better let me know.
> -Philip


Welcome!

Two things come to mind that would make the site a lot easier for me, and hopefully others, to use:

Make the "go to latest post" icon bigger (blue square with 2 white arrows). It's especially tricky to press on mobile
List the newest message from each subscribed thread right in the drop down from Notifications (main bar, always visible), and add a count of subscribed threads with an unread message on the corner of "Notifications". Maybe this would be "Default Thread Subscription Mode:" "Instantly, through notifications"


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Mulitquote sticks on me, Safari on a Mac.


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Like this?


Looks like you know exactly what I'm talking about, bottom two.



Curveball said:


> I welcome our new alien overlords with open arms. I already see that Cornfield is one of them.
> 
> They can harvest the organs from all you complainers.


----------



## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Maybe check with Imgur and see what it is about MTBR that pissed them off. 

Something happened here and they quit letting photo embeds from there work here about a year ago.


----------



## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

net wurker said:


> Maybe check with Imgur and see what it is about MTBR that pissed them off.
> 
> Something happened here and they quit letting photo embeds from there work here about a year ago.


Maybe an overabundance of Lana pics?

Just a thought.


----------



## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Hoping to get the @mention feature soon. Hopefully that cup of coffee gave the IT guy some boost


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

And why can we not embed PinkBike videos?


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

net wurker said:


> Maybe check with Imgur and see what it is about MTBR that pissed them off.
> 
> Something happened here and they quit letting photo embeds from there work here about a year ago.


All the people using imgur in the classifieds to sell stuff violated imgur's terms of use. The only thing that can be done now is for mtbr to allow embedding, so we can use their "Embed Unit".



http://imgur.com/hc


[email protected] "Embed Unit"


----------



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

WHALENARD said:


> MTBR would be better if it didn't censor profanity.
> Ya bastard!


Isn't that what Pinkbike is for?


----------



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

MTBRadmin said:


> Noted. If you have ideas for how to make the time you spend here better let me know.
> -Philip


Can you allow users to post reviews about bikes and components directly, instead of submitting the review and then nothing happens.

The bike review section is pretty stale.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

richj8990 said:


> Can you allow users to post reviews about bikes and components directly, instead of submitting the review and then nothing happens.
> 
> The bike review section is pretty stale.


There's a review section on here?


----------



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> There's a review section on here?


Mountain Bike Review's list of bikes for user reviews, editorial reviews, bike deals, used bikes and more - mtbr.com

It's there, but no way to post a review directly, you have to submit it indirectly and no monitor has the time to approve it, so it's in limbo forever.


----------



## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Before I search for reviews, I search for threads that have enough info on what I need.

It would be nice for it to work though, it also requires member participation, most people just post threads instead.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


----------



## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I'd like to see the return of the option to have only 10 posts per page in the forum. 100 posts per page means lots of scrolling.
Thanks


----------



## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

sgltrak said:


> I'd like to see the return of the option to have only 10 posts per page in the forum. 100 posts per page means lots of scrolling.
> Thanks


Yeah, the scrolling gets to be a bit much. Here's what I did: Go to Settings. On the left side, find General Settings under My Settings/MyAccount. Scroll to Tread Display Options and select Linear - Newest First. Everything displays newest first.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

richj8990 said:


> Mountain Bike Review's list of bikes for user reviews, editorial reviews, bike deals, used bikes and more - mtbr.com
> 
> It's there, but no way to post a review directly, you have to submit it indirectly and no monitor has the time to approve it, so it's in limbo forever.


I was kinda half joking. I stopped looking at the review section years ago once I realized it was pretty lame.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

The Passion forum certainly hasent changed much. :yikes:


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Cleaned out. Thanks for the heads up. 
-Philip



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> The Passion forum certainly hasent changed much. :yikes:
> 
> View attachment 1206634
> 
> ...


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

sgltrak said:


> I'd like to see the return of the option to have only 10 posts per page in the forum. 100 posts per page means lots of scrolling.
> Thanks


You should be able to tailor this in your user control panel. It will certainly be an option as soon as we get the mobile skin working. 
-Philip


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

I have not got to this one yet but will. 
-Philip



richj8990 said:


> Can you allow users to post reviews about bikes and components directly, instead of submitting the review and then nothing happens.
> 
> The bike review section is pretty stale.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And why can we not embed PinkBike videos?


Do you have a link to a pinkbike video? Are these just youtube/vimeo videos?
-Philip


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

I am looking into this. 
-Philip



Cornfield said:


> All the people using imgur in the classifieds to sell stuff violated imgur's terms of use. The only thing that can be done now is for mtbr to allow embedding, so we can use their "Embed Unit".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

chazpat said:


> Mulitquote sticks on me, Safari on a Mac.


Could you explain "sticks on me"? I want to try and replicate this. 
-Philip


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Skeggs1993 said:


> Welcome!
> 
> Two things come to mind that would make the site a lot easier for me, and hopefully others, to use:
> 
> ...


We will have a new mobile skin launched soon. I was hoping by end of week though the holiday July 1st for the Canadians and 4th for the US is putting us short staffed the last week. I will update as soon as I can on this. 
-Philip


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

If you posted a question or made a request and it was not answered please bump your post. I have been trying to play catch up and may have missed one or two posts. Not ignoring anyone just need your help if I missed anything. Also I have an inbox full of name change requests. I will be working on this today. 
-Philip


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

MTBRadmin said:


> Do you have a link to a pinkbike video? Are these just youtube/vimeo videos?
> -Philip


Personal ride videos would be nice to embed from PB.

https://m.pinkbike.com/video/362230/


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

chazpat said:


> Mulitquote sticks on me, Safari on a Mac.





Cornfield said:


> Looks like you know exactly what I'm talking about, bottom two.
> 
> View attachment 1205704





MTBRadmin said:


> Could you explain "sticks on me"? I want to try and replicate this.
> -Philip


Hit the multi-quote button on Corn and my quotes, then hit reply with quote to your post.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

chazpat said:


> Mulitquote sticks on me, Safari on a Mac.





Cornfield said:


> Looks like you know exactly what I'm talking about, bottom two.
> 
> View attachment 1205704





MTBRadmin said:


> If you posted a question or made a request and it was not answered please bump your post. I have been trying to play catch up and may have missed one or two posts. Not ignoring anyone just need your help if I missed anything. Also I have an inbox full of name change requests. I will be working on this today.
> -Philip


Now I just hit Reply With Quote to you. The earlier two multi-quote clicked comments did not turn off after I quoted them. They will continue to be quoted until I go turn them off. Sometimes, once quoted, they do turn themselves off.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chazpat said:


> Now I just hit Reply With Quote to you. The earlier two multi-quote clicked comments did not turn off after I quoted them. They will continue to be quoted until I go turn them off. Sometimes, once quoted, they do turn themselves off.


Yep, it doesn't matter what device you are posting from either. Once you hit submit the multi quote function should work for that post but automatically shut off but it doesn't. Once you go to post again in the same thread it posts the quotes you marked earlier until you go back in and manually uncheck those you quoted.

Hope this helps to explain it, Philip.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yep, it doesn't matter what device you are posting from either. Once you hit submit the multi quote function should work for that post but automatically shut off but it doesn't. Once you go to post again the same thread it posts the quotes you marked earlier until you go back in and manually uncheck those you quoted.
> 
> Hope this helps to explain it, Philip.


I have noticed this as well. Its like an odd cookie behavior. Will look into this. 
-Philip


----------



## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

wow, I get busy at work and then take a vacation and everything changes. Welcome Philip! I have a number of structural changes to the forum layout that I have an old thread about in the Mods forum. Perhaps we can speak on the phone soon.

- Matthew


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Klurejr said:


> wow, I get busy at work and then take a vacation and everything changes. Welcome Philip! I have a number of structural changes to the forum layout that I have an old thread about in the Mods forum. Perhaps we can speak on the phone soon.
> 
> - Matthew


Shoot me a PM to set up a meeting. 
-Philip


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Klurejr said:


> wow, I get busy at work and then take a vacation and everything changes. Welcome Philip! I have a number of structural changes to the forum layout that I have an old thread about in the Mods forum. Perhaps we can speak on the phone soon.
> 
> - Matthew


I was wondering where you were! Don't forget about that chazpat bike fund we discussed.

(multi-quotes manually deleted from this post)


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

MTBRadmin said:


> I have not got to this one yet but will.
> -Philip


It's a big project. Take your time. So many different bikes now it's hard to even start categorizing them for reviews.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Lemonaid said:


> My only wish is that the new owners please make the site objective and as free from industry influence as much as possible.
> 
> ...and add a MTB skills forum


Well they do have to post ads to keep the site free, that's kinda the faustian bargain of it all, right?


----------



## jimw (Aug 10, 2004)

Bump for MTBRadmin



jimw said:


> ^^^ Actually glad someone mentioned that, it bugs the crap out of me when someone quotes an entire post (especially if it contains a bunch of pics) only to make a completely unrelated one line comment that you have to scroll through pages of quoted pics to get to. So yeah, anything to help clean up after the lazy people would be great.
> 
> Speaking of pics, pics posted via BBCode tags get resized to a ridiculously small size. This is not the case on many other forums I use. I host all my pics on another site and use BBCode to post them here, I don't need an easier way to post pictures, I just want to be able to post them via BBCode and not have them resized. The horizontal limit appears to be 550 pixels. I resize my externally hosted photos to 800 px in the long dimension. When I post here, this means that landscape pics get resized to the same width as portrait pics, which really makes trip report posts with pics look... lame.
> 
> ...


----------



## jimw (Aug 10, 2004)

Bump for MTBRadmin



jimw said:


> Harold said:
> 
> 
> > I get why the image sizing limit was installed. It was just done in a lazy way that sucks. I remember when there wasn't an image size limit, and people posting REALLY large images blew out the site layout. Especially on those photo threads. One bad post would wreck the entire thread, because the buttons to reply to the post would be off the page, and no scroll bars available to retrieve them. It was a mess.
> ...


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

mack_turtle said:


> I think the sub-forum structure could stand to be re-arranged. for example, you could combine the following pairs of potentially redundant sub-forums:
> 
> XC Racing and Training - Mtbr.com and Endurance XC Racing - Mtbr.com
> 
> ...


These are good suggestions, but I'm confused when you say you we need a separate forum for all-mountain. Isn't that a forum right now? It already exists. Do you mean differentiating them, like, hardtail AM forum and then FS AM forum or something?

As far as being objective, certain fellow riders on here have told me there is no 'trail bike' forum because sponsors/advertisers want people to buy either expensive, lightweight XC bikes or huge-forked AM bikes. In other words, cheaper hardtails over 25 lbs and generally under $1700 with 80-120mm forks don't have their own forum because there is no real money to be made from them, and yet a large percentage of people on here ride one or more of them, sometimes exclusively. I guess this would be analogous to the 26" forum, relatively boring but still with a purpose and still exchanging ideas.


----------



## jimw (Aug 10, 2004)

Another thing about quoting (not sure if this was mentioned before?). Clicking "Reply With Quote" doesn't include nested quotes, it only quotes the text at the top level of the post in question, not any quotes included inside that post. Seems like it should include all quotes from the original post, it's easy to lose context of what you're replying to when previous quotes are stripped. So for my previous post I had to manually edit it to include the quoted text I was replying to in the original response. Without the original quotes to which I was responding, my response would have been confusing.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

richj8990 said:


> These are good suggestions, but I'm confused when you say you we need a separate forum for all-mountain. Isn't that a forum right now? It already exists. Do you mean differentiating them, like, hardtail AM forum and then FS AM forum or something?
> 
> As far as being objective, certain fellow riders on here have told me there is no 'trail bike' forum because sponsors/advertisers want people to buy either expensive, lightweight XC bikes or huge-forked AM bikes. In other words, cheaper hardtails over 25 lbs and generally under $1700 with 80-120mm forks don't have their own forum because there is no real money to be made from them, and yet a large percentage of people on here ride one or more of them, sometimes exclusively. I guess this would be analogous to the 26" forum, relatively boring but still with a purpose and still exchanging ideas.


I have a ton of ideas about this and other consolidation items we are discussing in the mods forum as well. Frankly the All Mountain section is kinda pointless.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

richj8990 said:


> As far as being objective, certain fellow riders on here have told me there is no 'trail bike' forum because sponsors/advertisers want people to buy either expensive, lightweight XC bikes or huge-forked AM bikes. In other words, cheaper hardtails over 25 lbs and generally under $1700 with 80-120mm forks don't have their own forum because there is no real money to be made from them, and yet a large percentage of people on here ride one or more of them, sometimes exclusively. I guess this would be analogous to the 26" forum, relatively boring but still with a purpose and still exchanging ideas.


Thinking conspiracy theory when there isn't one. Really, "trail bikes" fall under "everything else" and basically fit into General. The riding style specific subforums began to appear when those sub disciplines got popular.

I do feel like quite a few subforums need to be condensed. Frankly, I think ALL of the wheel size specific forums should go away completely. The truly wheel and tire discussions should go in wheels and tires, and all the rest can go into their respective forums. No discussions in those forums really need their own spot.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

MTBRadmin said:


> I nearly bought a pair of gravel bike tires for my commuter but only cause they looked like snake skin and had better road performance reviews than most of the other tires I looked at. So do more people here hate the gravel bike forum, the e-bike forum or the fat bike forum? I am trying to understand where most of you stand here.
> -Philip


I don't understand why gravel bikes would be separate from cyclocross, and so I agree with Mack Turtle that many on here should be combined. Fat bike forum should stay for sure because some people are in cold climates and that's the only bike/tire they can ride on in winter, so they need it.

Below you can see an example of an e-biker arguing with a pedal biker, so that's the most contentious forum (besides the access/local forums where there is a lot of finger pointing about who forced what trail to close down). As someone who is in the middle of an e-bike conversion, I really am trying to keep out of all of their for/against arguments, and trying to see it from an outside, neutral perspective. A few sprinkles of facts/opinions below:

1. Pedal bikers see e-bikes as a corruption of biking in general, and especially mountain biking. They look at it as cheating. These pedal bikers often work hard to get the best Strava time on a trail and then some e-biker destroys their time. It's a bit of an ego thing.

2. This has not happened in my area, but supposedly many trails have been shut down for ALL biking because e-bikers were a bit too aggressive with walkers/hikers, or rode on restricted parts of the trail, or damaged property/trees/bushes, etc. So the pedal bikers are upset about this and want all e-bikes to be banned from their trails. This appears to be the main reason why pedal bikers hate e-bikers.

3. While there are some e-bikers who are reckless and don't care about the rules at all on the trail, to the detriment of us all, there are also some e-bikers that are respectful, and ride responsibly and they should not be lumped in with the antisocial ones that are taunting the rangers and destroying the trails. A lot of e-bikers are overweight and I think it's great that they can ride and lose weight with an e-bike. Or they are older and can't do an epic ride anymore without some help. Don't discourage them from riding just because someone else on an e-bike was a jerk yesterday on the same trail. Don't blacklist all e-bikers as antisocial jerks that don't care about trails closing. They are not all like that. Some of them have ridden for decades and have multiple pedal bikes, and choose to e-bike for specific reasons in addition to their pedal biking. Those riders are real mountain bikers who just happen to own an e-bike. Get over it. Accept e-bikes as something that's here to stay.

4. However, with that said, the demand to delete the e-bike forum is so great on here that maybe it's for the better. You can always find plenty of info. on other sites about e-bikes anyway.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

jimw said:


> Bump for MTBRadmin





jimw said:


> Bump for MTBRadmin





jimw said:


> Another thing about quoting (not sure if this was mentioned before?). Clicking "Reply With Quote" doesn't include nested quotes, it only quotes the text at the top level of the post in question, not any quotes included inside that post. Seems like it should include all quotes from the original post, it's easy to lose context of what you're replying to when previous quotes are stripped. So for my previous post I had to manually edit it to include the quoted text I was replying to in the original response. Without the original quotes to which I was responding, my response would have been confusing.


These primarily relate to the way vBulletin software functions. I will see if there are any easy fixes with settings but some of what is described would need the code to be hacked to change it or a plugin found that would make this happen. Cant make any promises yet but can look into this. 
-Philip


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> I don't understand why gravel bikes would be separate from cyclocross, and so I agree with Mack Turtle that many on here should be combined. Fat bike forum should stay for sure because some people are in cold climates and that's the only bike/tire they can ride on in winter, so they need it.


I agree there are probably too many sub-forums but gravel/cyclo-cross isn't the best combo IMO. Cyclo-cross is a pretty specific cycling discipline and would be a better fit in the xc-racing forum than gravel.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

Gravel riding is a category that is growing. Be it on a hardtail, a cyclocross or a dedicated gravel bike, but is growing for several reasons. 
The Gravel Bike forum should stay.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

richj8990 said:


> I don't understand why gravel bikes would be separate from cyclocross, and so I agree with Mack Turtle that many on here should be combined. Fat bike forum should stay for sure because some people are in cold climates and that's the only bike/tire they can ride on in winter, so they need it.
> 
> Below you can see an example of an e-biker arguing with a pedal biker, so that's the most contentious forum (besides the access/local forums where there is a lot of finger pointing about who forced what trail to close down). As someone who is in the middle of an e-bike conversion, I really am trying to keep out of all of their for/against arguments, and trying to see it from an outside, neutral perspective. A few sprinkles of facts/opinions below:
> 
> ...


Maybe you should actually read the ebike threads before posting your "sprinkles". If you did, you'd find very little mention of "cheating". I also haven't seen a lot of mention of Strava time and ebikes destroying anyone's time. You also won't find much mention of trails that HAVE been shut down, just fears of it happening.

Most discussion is if electric bicycles are just an advance in bicycles or if they are no longer bicycles due to having a motor. And if ebikes should just get automatic access to all mountain bike trails or if the land manager should decide if they are given access or not. A lot of the bicyclist are fine with ebikes on the road and think they should have some access but that ebikers need to form their own advocacy groups and not just try to gain access as mountain bikers. Many of the mountain bikers point out that on most trails, there is no one to check that an ebike is an unmodified class 1 ebike and thus if access is given to class 1 ebikes, it is effectively giving access to all ebikes.

I agree completely with #4. But since this is a commercial site, I'm sure the bean counters would prefer to have the traffic than give the forum the boot.


----------



## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Apparently, no one is going to put a stop to the Korean spam attacks. They are beating down passion, being the 1st forum on the board. Can we just make a new subforum above passion, at the top of the list, for them to attack? Just call the damn thing “Korean Spam”.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

slowpoker said:


> Apparently, no one is going to put a stop to the Korean spam attacks. They are beating down passion, being the 1st forum on the board. Can we just make a new subforum above passion, at the top of the list, for them to attack? Just call the damn thing "Korean Spam".


Nope. Annoying AF. All this talk of fixing things and yet even this simple thing they haven't stopped.


----------



## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

slowpoker said:


> Apparently, no one is going to put a stop to the Korean spam attacks. They are beating down passion, being the 1st forum on the board. Can we just make a new subforum above passion, at the top of the list, for them to attack? Just call the damn thing "Korean Spam".





stripes said:


> Nope. Annoying AF. All this talk of fixing things and yet even this simple thing they haven't stopped.


tra

Page clicks are traffic through the site.....good or bad, it is still traffic.


----------



## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

mtnbikej said:


> tra
> 
> Page clicks are traffic through the site.....good or bad, it is still traffic.


My suggestion doesn't take away from this ridiculous excuse I keep hearing...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

slowpoker said:


> Apparently, no one is going to put a stop to the Korean spam attacks. They are beating down passion, being the 1st forum on the board. Can we just make a new subforum above passion, at the top of the list, for them to attack? Just call the damn thing "Korean Spam".


So Passion is worse than post #226 of this thread from 13 hours ago?


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> So Passion is worse than post #226 of this thread from 13 hours ago?


Poor passion...:bluefrown:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

slowpoker said:


> Poor passion...:bluefrown:


The Koreans are passionatelyattackingPassionwithspam.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

stripes said:


> Nope. Annoying AF. All this talk of fixing things and yet even this simple thing they haven't stopped.


I wouldn't be surprised if the new owners started cleaning up the back end of the site, and disabled some plugin or such that did reduce the spam in the past. 'cause I haven't seen spam attacks this bad in quite some time.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harold said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the new owners started cleaning up the back end of the site, and disabled some plugin or such that did reduce the spam in the past. 'cause I haven't seen spam attacks this bad in quite some time.


Holy crap! Yesterday when we were bich-n & moaning about it, it was only 3/4 of the front page. Now it's the entire 1st page, 2nd page and half of the 3rd page. :yikes:


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Holy crap! Yesterday when we were bich-n & moaning about it, it was only 3/4 of the front page. Now it's the entire 1st page, 2nd page and half of the 3rd page.


Maybe the site has been bought by the spammers?


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Late to the party but..



mack_turtle said:


> Combine...
> 
> 29er Bikes - Mtbr.com and 29er Components - Mtbr.com
> 
> ...


^ yup



MTBRadmin said:


> Cyclo-Cross and Gravel we can look at but it was always my understanding that one is competitive racing for those who think everything in life should be that much harder and Gravel cycling is more adventure sport that requires more time with your butt in the saddle than CX?


Not exactly. The term Cyclocross gets used very loosely by the cycling industry. Not all cross bikes are race bikes, in fact most aren't. Example: Surly Cross Check. Huge tire clearance, extremely versatile, built strong, cult following, excellent at a lot of things but not a race bike.

Likewise Gravel bikes also come in the form of race bikes, but again most aren't race specific.

I agree having a cross sub forum and a gravel sub forum is redundant. They should all be part of the same conversation as they're extremely similar.


----------



## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

The janitor at the gym always stares at me when I'm in the locker room. What should I do?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

I've only skimmed the last few post on the thread, but it has occurred t me that there are two ways to approach the re-ordering of the sub forums. If you consider the features of the design, it makes sense to combine gravel bikes with 'cross bikes. The randonneuring gravel tour thing is contrary to what a 'cross race is. All-mountain bikes and enduro bikes could be in the same discussion on the product side, but closed course enduro racing and recreational trail riding as activities are a world apart. Either draw the lines around the gear or around the activities.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

What are the chances the new owners can stop the onslaught of spam this place sees on the daily? Out of more than a dozen forums I visit often...this is the ONLY site that sees this much spam. And the other sites it's fairly rare to see any at all.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I think it would make sense to have a "racing" category with the various disciplines having subforums, or at least logical groupings.

The bike sub category forums make less sense than activity related forums. Because the product subcategories have always been pretty vague.


MOJO K said:


> I've only skimmed the last few post on the thread, but it has occurred t me that there are two ways to approach the re-ordering of the sub forums. If you consider the features of the design, it makes sense to combine gravel bikes with 'cross bikes. The randonneuring gravel tour thing is contrary to what a 'cross race is. All-mountain bikes and enduro bikes could be in the same discussion on the product side, but closed course enduro racing and recreational trail riding as activities are a world apart. Either draw the lines around the gear or around the activities.


Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Scott O said:


> The janitor at the gym always stares at me when I'm in the locker room. What should I do?


Stop going into the ladies locker room.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Harold said:


> I think it would make sense to have a "racing" category with the various disciplines having subforums, or at least logical groupings.
> 
> The bike sub category forums make less sense than activity related forums. Because the product subcategories have always been pretty vague.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


If they could split the current set-up of the forums between product/consumer content and activity/experience content, I'm curious what the numbers would show about how the site gets used based on the traffic.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nubster said:


> What are the chances the new owners can stop the onslaught of spam this place sees on the daily? Out of more than a dozen forums I visit often...this is the ONLY site that sees this much spam. And the other sites it's fairly rare to see any at all.


And go on a sodium free diet? I'm afraid this would be a drastic change and a shock to our system. Maybe best to ease us into it.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

slowpoker said:


> Apparently, no one is going to put a stop to the Korean spam attacks. They are beating down passion, being the 1st forum on the board. Can we just make a new subforum above passion, at the top of the list, for them to attack? Just call the damn thing "Korean Spam".


I am looking into this. The attack last night was clearly a bot or twelve. We have not even moved the site onto our own servers yet so major changes I want to make (you will not ever notice) to the site are delayed.



stripes said:


> Nope. Annoying AF. All this talk of fixing things and yet even this simple thing they haven't stopped.


I did just get here, gimmie a little time.



mtnbikej said:


> tra
> Page clicks are traffic through the site.....good or bad, it is still traffic.


On the contrary, google will down rank you for having too much spam on a site.



Harold said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the new owners started cleaning up the back end of the site, and disabled some plugin or such that did reduce the spam in the past. 'cause I haven't seen spam attacks this bad in quite some time.


Not made any changes to the site yet. I have a list drafted up with plugins I need to add to help this situation.



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Holy crap! Yesterday when we were bich-n & moaning about it, it was only 3/4 of the front page. Now it's the entire 1st page, 2nd page and half of the 3rd page. :yikes:


This was a bot attack.



Scott O said:


> The janitor at the gym always stares at me when I'm in the locker room. What should I do?
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Find an adult.



Nubster said:


> What are the chances the new owners can stop the onslaught of spam this place sees on the daily? Out of more than a dozen forums I visit often...this is the ONLY site that sees this much spam. And the other sites it's fairly rare to see any at all.


I am looking into this. There are a number of plugins that I am planning to install here as soon as we get the site cut over to our servers.



MOJO K said:


> If they could split the current set-up of the forums between product/consumer content and activity/experience content, I'm curious what the numbers would show about how the site gets used based on the traffic.


I would be curious to see this too. 
-Philip


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And go on a sodium free diet? I'm afraid this would be a drastic change and a shock to our system. Maybe best to ease us into it.


Yeah...I mean they can start by limiting it to only 100 spam threads a day and slowly reduce it from there. Wean us off the spam nice and slow. I'd hate to see anyone get sick from spam withdrawal.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

MTBRadmin, least night I was frustrated and I took matters into my own hands, was this the wrong way to go about dealing with spam?

http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-o...t-your-cat-photos-788437-16.html#post13729072


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> MTBRadmin, least night I was frustrated and I took matters into my own hands, was this the wrong way to go about dealing with spam?
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-o...t-your-cat-photos-788437-16.html#post13729072


I am more a Dog person; Cats give me all the allergy symptoms. We all process stress in our own unique ways so if this kept you calm and in a good place who am I to argue. 
-Philip


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Mr Pig said:


> Maybe the site has been bought by the spammers?


Uh oh....


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

MTBRadmin said:


> I would be curious to see this too.
> -Philip


Get it done...I'll expect to see it end of next week.

BTW...shame about Scotty and the creepy janitor, Huh?


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

127.0.0.1 said:


> shimano 12 speed discussions have been getting killed ? are you serious ?
> 
> holy moly if this is true.


New Shimano XTR 12-speed: What you need to know - Mountain Bike Review- Mtbr.com

Pretty cool. They also offer a 10-45t 11-speed cassette that's compatible with the 12-speed XTR derailleur and hub. So now 8-10 and 11-12 are compatible with each other. The article said at this time there is no Shimano wheel (rim) for 12-speeds but DT Swiss is making one, I'm sure others will follow. But for the conversion, with the rear wheel, I'm sure it's going to be a lot of money right, like over $600? Around twice as much as a 10-speed conversion?


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

j102 said:


> Gravel riding is a category that is growing. Be it on a hardtail, a cyclocross or a dedicated gravel bike, but is growing for several reasons.
> The Gravel Bike forum should stay.


...yawn...I'm sleepy...


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> ...yawn...I'm sleepy...


I don't understand why not just ignore a forum you don't like. i.e. I don't visit the Clydesdale forum because I have little to contribute at 5'11" and 160lbs. 

I don't commute so I don't visit that forum.

I don't have a whole a lot to contribute, period! but I just participate in forums of my choice.

I do follow some forums just to learn, like the bikepacking forum or the vintage forum.

I would go nuts if I followed everything on this site. 

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

richj8990 said:


> ...yawn...I'm sleepy...





mack_turtle said:


> Gravel bike hate is imagined.


....


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## Whiptastic (Mar 14, 2016)

net wurker said:


> Maybe check with Imgur and see what it is about MTBR that pissed them off.
> 
> Something happened here and they quit letting photo embeds from there work here about a year ago.


Ditto! Pictures from IMGUR are hit and miss, sometimes even a link doesn't work. Only method that seems consistent is copying the link and posting it to your browser to see the image on their site.

Definitely keep eMTB's, geezzz... If haters can't handle a forum they don't like and can't simply ignore it, that's clearly their personal problem.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

chazpat said:


> Maybe you should actually read the ebike threads before posting your "sprinkles". If you did, you'd find very little mention of "cheating". I also haven't seen a lot of mention of Strava time and ebikes destroying anyone's time. You also won't find much mention of trails that HAVE been shut down, just fears of it happening.
> 
> Most discussion is if electric bicycles are just an advance in bicycles or if they are no longer bicycles due to having a motor. And if ebikes should just get automatic access to all mountain bike trails or if the land manager should decide if they are given access or not. A lot of the bicyclist are fine with ebikes on the road and think they should have some access but that ebikers need to form their own advocacy groups and not just try to gain access as mountain bikers. Many of the mountain bikers point out that on most trails, there is no one to check that an ebike is an unmodified class 1 ebike and thus if access is given to class 1 ebikes, it is effectively giving access to all ebikes.
> 
> I agree completely with #4. But since this is a commercial site, I'm sure the bean counters would prefer to have the traffic than give the forum the boot.


Much of the bad stuff about e-bikes on here is actually on other forums, where people feel more free to bash on them I guess. I still don't understand the access problem. Very, very few trails around here have all bikes banned, and most of those trails you would not want to bike on anyway, too narrow/steep, etc. So e-bikes for the most part do have access, and a gazillion people on here including you don't want them to be considered in the same category as mountain bikes, and to ride the same trails, even if the e-bike is a mountain bike that happens to have a motor and battery. So that goes back to (1), you think, consciously or not, that e-bikes are either a corruption and/or are inferior to pedal bikes. I just don't see any other reason for segregating them away from pedal bikes.

Now the real question is, if in an alternate universe, where e-bikes never broke any rules and shut any trails down, would you still want to treat them as a completely separate biking class, and not group them at all into mountain bikes. Because if you look at it purely from a component perspective, an e-mountain bike shares way more with a pedal mountain bike than with a gravel bike, cyclocross bike, rigid singlespeed, dirtjumper, etc., and yet there is 100x more clamor to get e-bikes off the site than those bikes. From a shared component perspective it's not rational; there is an emotional, tribal instinct to the e-bike antipathy. There is a threat to pedal bikes from them that there is not from the other 'innocent' bikes mentioned above.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

richj8990 said:


> Much of the bad stuff about e-bikes on here is actually on other forums, where people feel more free to bash on them I guess. I still don't understand the access problem. Very, very few trails around here have all bikes banned, and most of those trails you would not want to bike on anyway, too narrow/steep, etc. So e-bikes for the most part do have access, and a gazillion people on here including you don't want them to be considered in the same category as mountain bikes, and to ride the same trails, even if the e-bike is a mountain bike that happens to have a motor and battery. So that goes back to (1), you think, consciously or not, that e-bikes are either a corruption and/or are inferior to pedal bikes. I just don't see any other reason for segregating them away from pedal bikes.
> 
> Now the real question is, if in an alternate universe, where e-bikes never broke any rules and shut any trails down, would you still want to treat them as a completely separate biking class, and not group them at all into mountain bikes. Because if you look at it purely from a component perspective, an e-mountain bike shares way more with a pedal mountain bike than with a gravel bike, cyclocross bike, rigid singlespeed, dirtjumper, etc., and yet there is 100x more clamor to get e-bikes off the site than those bikes. From a shared component perspective it's not rational; there is an emotional, tribal instinct to the e-bike antipathy. There is a threat to pedal bikes from them that there is not from the other 'innocent' bikes mentioned above.


All those other bikes don't have motors.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

jcd46 said:


> I don't understand why not just ignore a forum you don't like. i.e. I don't visit the Clydesdale forum because I have little to contribute at 5'11" and 160lbs.
> 
> I don't commute so I don't visit that forum.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly, even with the e-bike forum. No interest for me so I don't go there and I'm certainly not bothered that some do.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

jcd46 said:


> I don't understand why not just ignore a forum you don't like. i.e. I don't visit the Clydesdale forum because I have little to contribute at 5'11" and 160lbs.
> 
> I don't commute so I don't visit that forum.
> 
> ...


Same here. I'm here to learn and contribute the best I can.
Some people are always looking for a fight. It's better to ignore them.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Do some of you just want a user group you can join that just hides the ebike forum from your view?
-Philip


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

MTBRadmin said:


> Do some of you just want a user group you can join that just hides the ebike forum from your view?
> -Philip


That would be nice if it would work. The ebike spew winds up everywhere now.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

MTBRadmin said:


> Do some of you just want a user group you can join that just hides the ebike forum from your view?
> -Philip


Somewhat related, we need something in tapatalk that shows the sub forums. When someone posts on the women's lounge it needs to be clear it's there and not anywhere else.

That sub forum has some different rules since it's supposed to be a more understanding place for the female rider to post but it ends up on tapatalk on the front so everyone and their brother replies, which defeats its purpose.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Harold said:


> That would be nice if it would work. The ebike spew winds up everywhere now.
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Its possible to do, not sure how pretty it will be but I can add this to my to do list.



stripes said:


> Somewhat related, we need something in tapatalk that shows the sub forums. When someone posts on the women's lounge it needs to be clear it's there and not anywhere else.
> 
> That sub forum has some different rules since it's supposed to be a more understanding place for the female rider to post but it ends up on tapatalk on the front so everyone and their brother replies, which defeats its purpose.


This is a problem related to tapatalk not being owned or operated by us. They are a third party and because of this we are limited to what custom we can do with tapatalk.

-Philip


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## bloodypalms (May 30, 2018)

richj8990 said:


> Very, very few trails around here have all bikes banned, and most of those trails you would not want to bike on anyway, too narrow/steep, etc. So e-bikes for the most part do have access'


#1. What you apparently fail to understand is that there are many riders that seek out very narrow and steep "hiking" trails because they are really fun and because that's what we started riding on long before purpose built riding/multi-use trails came to be. In other words, what you consider "too narrow/steep" is easily rideable for many non-beginners.

#2. You are also wrong when you claim motor bicycles "for the most part do have access." The fact is that motor bicycles are banned by many land managers. Your claims about your local area don't reflect the truth on the ground in many jurisdictions across the country.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Finch Platte said:


> So, Philip. Have you ever seen a grown man naked?





MTBRadmin said:


> Will there be something for me in my PM box later?
> -Philip


LOL

Good one !!


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

singletrackmack said:


> Getting rid of the ebike forum could reduce potential user hits for this site, so wouldn't make any sense to get rid of it.... unfortunately
> 
> But, how about moving the ebike forum out from under the "Classic Mountain Bike" subforum and creating a new subforum just for ebikes like the "regional bike trails" and "mtb manufactures forums" have?
> 
> That way there could be specific sub forums under ebike forum like; factory built ebikes, diy ebikes, ebike specific components, ebike accessories, great legal ebike trails, ebike advocacy, ebike tuning, class 1 & 2, class 3, ebikes for ohv only, batteries & chargers, ebike motors, ebike programming and controllers, ebike computers, etc.


Good point. 
This and other's that could be "rearranged" might bring some peace.

I believe a lot of the griping about any forums that are thought to be useless or not of MTBR topic/caliber is likely just b!tching because people run into them by accident when they are not located in a more intuitive area.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

The ebike controversy is because that use is a threat to what is core to our sport. Trail surface condition and the respect for trails.
Ebikes belong with electric motorcycles. In their forums.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> The ebike controversy is because that use is a threat to what is core to our sport. Trail surface condition and the respect for trails.
> Ebikes belong with electric motorcycles. In their forums.


Golf clap. Only the dishonest or willfully ignorant will not acknowledge that motors are, will be and always have been the line of demarcation, one in which many working and access agreements have been based on. The rush to acceptance pushed by the less than honest industry put much access at risk and I find it hypocritical that a "mountain bike" centric site cant see that or chooses to ignore it in the quest for a few dollars.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

1) Keep the ebike forum strong!, we ARE current and former MTBRS btw.
2) IPhone continually “freezes” when typing.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Gutch said:


> 1) Keep the ebike forum strong!, we ARE current and former MTBRS btw who really want a separate site rather than being on a bicycle site.
> 2) IPhone continually "freezes" when typing.


Finished it for you since your iPhone obviously froze when typing there, Gutch.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

life behind bars said:


> Golf clap. Only the dishonest or willfully ignorant will not acknowledge that motors are, will be and always have been the line of demarcation, one in which many working and access agreements have been based on. The rush to acceptance pushed by the less than honest industry put much access at risk and I find it hypocritical that a "mountain bike" centric site cant see that or chooses to ignore it in the quest for a few dollars.


Word!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Gutch said:


> Keep the ebike forum strong!, we ARE current and former MTBRS btw.


It's good that you differentiate between riding a mountain bike and riding an eBike at least.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

chazpat said:


> Finished it for you since your iPhone obviously froze when typing there, Gutch.


I actually like the one stop browsing. I can read about ebikes, my Mtb, get some training tips and then go to the beer section and figure out what I'm going to drink. Then, when I'm drunk instead of kicking the dog and arguing with wifey I can go back to ebike forum and argue there. It's kept my household quite pleasant.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Mr Pig said:


> It's good that you differentiate between riding a mountain bike and riding an eBike at least.


I think they need to be completely separate forums. Ebikes aren't mountain bikes.

MTBR - mountain bikes
RBR - road bikes
EBR - ebikes, including e-mtbs


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

s-c-r-e-w ebikes. yes they should have an entirely separate web site and forum. then
we will all be happy and you can service the ebikers and the advertisers for all things e-bike far better. continuing here in one forum is not being productive to either


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Looks like the image up-sizing issue on attachments has been fixed, thank you! I did notice that linked images from other places will still get bumped up to the max width, so even a small smiley would get blown up to a full size image, aye.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

127.0.0.1 said:


> s-c-r-e-w ebikes. yes they should have an entirely separate web site and forum. then
> we will all be happy and you can service the ebikers and the advertisers for all things e-bike far better. continuing here in one forum is not being productive to either


I can block your view of the ebike forum if you want. Send me a PM with the request to make it invisible to you.



stripes said:


> I think they need to be completely separate forums. Ebikes aren't mountain bikes.
> MTBR - mountain bikes
> RBR - road bikes
> EBR - ebikes, including e-mtbs


See above, if you want it hidden from you personally I can accommodate this.



Gutch said:


> 1) Keep the ebike forum strong!, we ARE current and former MTBRS btw.
> 2) IPhone continually "freezes" when typing.


2) Are you on tapatalk or on your browser? What phone? What browser?

-Philip


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Deleted by its author.


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## MJW75 (Jul 5, 2018)

MTBRadmin said:


> I can block your view of the ebike forum if you want. Send me a PM with the request to make it invisible to you.


I would avoid using 'User Masks', it causes a few extra SQL queries for every page load, so can slow things down. If you can, disable 'User Masks' completely and maybe create a new user group who can't see specific forums (maybe this is how you are doing it anyway?).


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

MTBRadmin said:


> I can block your view of the ebike forum if you want. Send me a PM with the request to make it invisible to you.


I am not a fan of this whack-a-mole approach.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

I'm still getting re-directs saying that I won something from Amazon when viewing from my andriod phone using Chrome. I have to close the tab and start over to get rid of it.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Klurejr said:


> I am not a fan of this whack-a-mole approach.


I cant just remove a full section of the site. Some users are so triggered by this I figured I would offer this as an option. 
-Philip


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Access masks is practical for one or two users. My first proposal was to create a special user group for those who are that triggered by it. I guess I could also give them their own hidden forum where all they will do is talk smack about ebikes...
For the moment I cant make too many major changes to the site until its moved to its new servers. I mostly want to keep it similar to what everyone knows so when we move it if there are bugs they get noticed immediately. 
-Philip



MJW75 said:


> I would avoid using 'User Masks', it causes a few extra SQL queries for every page load, so can slow things down. If you can, disable 'User Masks' completely and maybe create a new user group who can't see specific forums (maybe this is how you are doing it anyway?).


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

huckleberry hound said:


> I'm still getting re-directs saying that I won something from Amazon when viewing from my andriod phone using Chrome. I have to close the tab and start over to get rid of it.


I am going to try and track these down. Can you get me a screen grab of what you see as well as the URL the ad is directing to?
-Philip


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> This is not a true representation of the facts.
> 
> It doesn't really matter why many bikers do not like eBikes, the fact is they don't. With the industry pushing them so hard, and forums being forced to play along, there is the possibility that a forum which took a stand against them might gain a lot of friends!


HMMM.

I think it does matter why so many mountain bikers do not like e-bikes. This is a sibling rivalry where one sibling refuses to acknowledge the other. As I mentioned on another thread, e-mountain bikes share basically every single component with a normal mountain bike. You can get fat-tire e-bikes, rigid, hardtails, full-suspension, 1x, 2x, 3x drivetrains, older 8-speed ones or newer 11-speed ones, etc., even carbon fiber ones if it's a mid-drive. It's all there. A lot of manufacturers have a regular mountain bike and then throw a battery and motor on the SAME bike and make it an e-bike. With such a similarity in both bikes, it does really, really, really matter exactly why a pedal biker would not like an e-bike. Because it obviously goes beyond them not liking a bike with a battery and motor. If that were the only excuse to not like them, we would not see so many heated arguments. There is a much deeper antipathy. It's fine to be a purist as long as it doesn't hurt others.

It kind of reminds me of the American car industry in the 1980's when Europe and Japan were starting to really get a share of the market here. And the attitude of the American car dealers? Was it open-minded? Nope, and they paid for it dearly. But don't worry, not all bikes will have electric power, there will always be millions of them with pedal-only power, so this hatred is misdirected.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

With all due respect, Philip. Some things are good because they are difficult. As someone once said, "We choose to do these things because they are hard". Mountainbiking is just such a thing. Making mountianbiking easier does not make it better.

I have nothing against e-Bikes and think they have a place in this world. They just need to be acknowledged as being different than a human powered bike. The industry needs to stop treating them like they are equal in all ways, because they are definitely not. I believe much of the push back is due to the feeling that they are being marketed as though they are the same and therefore should be afforded equal access to all areas that bikes have fought for. Human powered access should remain set aside for solely human powered endeavors. The fear is (and it's not unfounded) that adding motors and blurring the lines will result in a net loss of access for all of us.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

MTBRadmin said:


> I cant just remove a full section of the site. Some users are so triggered by this I figured I would offer this as an option.
> -Philip


The e-motorbike forum was removed from this site at one time, it can be removed.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

chuckha62 said:


> With all due respect, Philip. Some things are good because they are difficult. As someone once said, "We choose to do these things because they are hard". Mountainbiking is just such a thing. Making mountianbiking easier does not make it better.
> 
> I have nothing against e-Bikes and think they have a place in this world. They just need to be acknowledged as being different than a human powered bike. The industry needs to stop treating them like they are equal in all ways, because they are definitely not. I believe much of the push back is due to the feeling that they are being marketed as though they are the same and therefore should be afforded equal access to all areas that bikes have fought for. Human powered access should remain set aside for solely human powered endeavors. The fear is (and it's not unfounded) that adding motors and blurring the lines will result in a net loss of access for all of us.


+1

how do you post "+1" and get around the "your reply is too short"?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

richj8990 said:


> HMMM.
> 
> I think it does matter why so many mountain bikers do not like e-bikes. This is a sibling rivalry where one sibling refuses to acknowledge the other. As I mentioned on another thread, e-mountain bikes share basically every single component with a normal mountain bike. You can get fat-tire e-bikes, rigid, hardtails, full-suspension, 1x, 2x, 3x drivetrains, older 8-speed ones or newer 11-speed ones, etc., even carbon fiber ones if it's a mid-drive. It's all there. A lot of manufacturers have a regular mountain bike and then throw a battery and motor on the SAME bike and make it an e-bike. With such a similarity in both bikes, it does really, really, really matter exactly why a pedal biker would not like an e-bike. Because it obviously goes beyond them not liking a bike with a battery and motor. If that were the only excuse to not like them, we would not see so many heated arguments. There is a much deeper antipathy. It's fine to be a purist as long as it doesn't hurt others.
> 
> It kind of reminds me of the American car industry in the 1980's when Europe and Japan were starting to really get a share of the market here. And the attitude of the American car dealers? Was it open-minded? Nope, and they paid for it dearly. But don't worry, not all bikes will have electric power, there will always be millions of them with pedal-only power, so this hatred is misdirected.


And the point goes right over your head. Simply put, ebikes put hard won access at risk and any legitimate mountain bike centric site would send ebikes packing.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

MTBRadmin said:


> I can block your view of the ebike forum if you want. Send me a PM with the request to make it invisible to you.
> 
> See above, if you want it hidden from you personally I can accommodate this.
> 
> ...


Hi Phillip. iPhone 6 and 5. Browser Safari. Thanks for cleaning things up. Seems to be some ebike hate, but funny thing is there's more non ebikers in the ebike forum, than ebikers. I think you're smart having the Forum, it will only get stronger in time. Thx


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

life behind bars said:


> And the point goes right over your head. Simply put, ebikes put hard won access at risk and any legitimate mountain bike centric site would send ebikes packing.


Any "proven cases" of trails being lost to mtbrs due from emtbs? If the LM say cool, then why the hatred? This older crowd of ebike riders have done nothing for Mtb trails thru the years?


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

chuckha62 said:


> With all due respect, Philip. Some things are good because they are difficult. As someone once said, "We choose to do these things because they are hard". Mountainbiking is just such a thing. Making mountianbiking easier does not make it better.
> 
> I have nothing against e-Bikes and think they have a place in this world. They just need to be acknowledged as being different than a human powered bike. The industry needs to stop treating them like they are equal in all ways, because they are definitely not. I believe much of the push back is due to the feeling that they are being marketed as though they are the same and therefore should be afforded equal access to all areas that bikes have fought for. Human powered access should remain set aside for solely human powered endeavors. The fear is (and it's not unfounded) that adding motors and blurring the lines will result in a net loss of access for all of us.


This is exactly the issue. It's not the first time it's been said, but I'm not sure it's been said so well or as succinctly.


----------



## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Gutch said:


> Hi Phillip. iPhone 6 and 5. Browser Safari. Thanks for cleaning things up. Seems to be some ebike hate, but funny thing is there's more non ebikers in the ebike forum, than ebikers. I think you're smart having the Forum, it will only get stronger in time. Thx


But, but how can that be? If ebikes are well on the way towards world domination, why is the ebike forum so lame, and ebikers outnumbered by mountain bikers?


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Gutch said:


> Any "proven cases" of trails being lost to mtbrs due from emtbs? If the LM say cool, then why the hatred? This older crowd of ebike riders have done nothing for Mtb trails thru the years?


Not around here, because they ain't allowed.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

mbmb65 said:


> Not around here, because they ain't allowed.


Dude, you're doing nothing to keep ebikes out of Pisgah. Why? Because you don't have to. You've seen 1 emtb? Why are you so worried then? A little insecurity bike snobbery?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Furthermore, who are you to judge what cyclists want to ride for entertainment? If they are legal then wtf?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

This thread is awesome evidence why ebikes should have their own forum and why patching a way to block the ebike forum from people's experiences who don't want to see it won't work.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Here's a quote from Harryman from one of the locked threads:



> This ebike forum is a great resource for those who are anti-ebike. Access is rarely discussed on ebike forums, where 100% access is just assumed to be coming, so this forum is pretty illuminating for a lot of people on both sides. Plus, it's pretty amusing to watch people tie themselves in knots over discussions that have very little bearing in the real word.


I must say that I have been amused, especially today, so I'll allow it!


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

huckleberry hound said:


> I'm still getting re-directs saying that I won something from Amazon when viewing from my andriod phone using Chrome. I have to close the tab and start over to get rid of it.


Malware


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Gutch said:


> Dude, you're doing nothing to keep ebikes out of Pisgah. Why? Because you don't have to. You've seen 1 emtb? Why are you so worried then? A little insecurity bike snobbery?


Dood, I bend the ears of every ranger, Leo, or USFS employee who will listen. Yup, one confirmed sighting for me, and I aim to keep it that way? Do you ride pisgah? Seen the signage? What exactly is "insecurity bike snobbery"?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Gutch said:


> Furthermore, who are you to judge what cyclists want to ride for entertainment? If they are legal then wtf?


When did I judge you? I don't care what you do, as long as I'm not affected and your doing your thing where it's legal. Furthermore, once you add a motor, you're really not cycling anymore.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

mbmb65 said:


> Dood, I bend the ears of every ranger, Leo, or USFS employee who will listen.


Keep doing this, it is quite effective.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Harold said:


> This thread is awesome evidence why ebikes should have their own forum and why patching a way to block the ebike forum from people's experiences who don't want to see it won't work.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


I don't know how it started but there are three or four who are on the other side of the debate that continually bring it up. I think there is great benefit to it being here if the atmosphere was a little less antagonistic.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

life behind bars said:


> Keep doing this, it is quite effective.


Hey, it beats writing to the Cheeto-In-Chief, where you _know_ it's just going to be ignored. :madman:


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

chazpat said:


> +1
> 
> how do you post "+1" and get around the "your reply is too short"?


idk


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

life behind bars said:


> Keep doing this, it is quite effective.


So far, it really has been. They wish to have nothing to do with them. They're already stretched thin. But man, you oughta see 'em clamor to take a spin on my pedal mountain bike machine! And I let 'em! They just love it.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

mbmb65 said:


> Dood, I bend the ears of every ranger, Leo, or USFS employee who will listen. Yup, one confirmed sighting for me, and I aim to keep it that way? Do you ride pisgah? Seen the signage? What exactly is "insecurity bike snobbery"?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Ebikes aren't allowed in Pisgah, no worries. I ride my Mtb there occasionally. Want a real workout? Turn the assist off and pedal.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Finch Platte said:


> Hey, it beats writing to the Cheeto-In-Chief, where you _know_ it's just going to be ignored. :madman:


try tweeting....


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Gutch said:


> Hi Phillip. iPhone 6 and 5. Browser Safari. Thanks for cleaning things up. Seems to be some ebike hate, but funny thing is there's more non ebikers in the ebike forum, than ebikers. I think you're smart having the Forum, it will only get stronger in time. Thx


Will see how it goes to sort out where it will be moved in the forum list.

_Cool story Bro time:_ I think about the time I saw an old Colnago racing bike in a garage sale* with ape hangers on it. It was one of the stupidest things I have ever seen. I thought for sure this was stolen or something and what a crime to have these tall bars on a vintage racing bike. 
Turns out the owner an older Italian guy used to race it in his youth. He at one time got into a car accident and his back no longer allowed him to ride a bike unless he was sitting up so he put the tall bars on it. He was selling it since he got an electric assist trike and could not ride it the bike so much anymore. I will ride till my knees stop working. After that I will look for alternatives to remain active on a bike; if it takes three wheels or a motor to help me get up the hills. 

*I did not buy the bike it was way too big for my short legs, had a "Make an offer, don't insult me" sign on it and at the time I lived in a 350 square foot studio apartment with 4 bikes, 2 unicycles a girlfriend and a small dog.

-Philip


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

Philip,

Lots of complaining here about the vitriol associated with eBikes. Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd. That said, a separate eBike subforum may be the solution. One of the biggest complaints from the anti-eBikers is that their MTB forum is being encroached upon by eBikers. A subforum dedicated to nothing but eBikes would then make it their turf and it would be the anti-eBikers who would be encroaching should any disputes arise.

Also keep in mind that an MTBer and an eBiker are frequently the same person. MTB and eBike does not define a person... it defines what he rides on a particular day. Many, probably most, eBikers are MTBers as well. eBikes are simply another category of bikes, such as fatbikes. eBikes and MTBs have FAR more in common than not. The arguments always start with a narrow minded person who can only focus on the differences while ignoring the vast similarities. We as a community need to evolve past that point.


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Jim_bo said:


> We as a community need to evolve past that point.


Not in mountain bikers best interests.


----------



## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Jim_bo said:


> Philip,
> 
> Lots of complaining here about the vitriol associated with eBikes. Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd. That said, a separate eBike subforum may be the solution. One of the biggest complaints from the anti-eBikers is that their MTB forum is being encroached upon by eBikers. A subforum dedicated to nothing but eBikes would then make it their turf and it would be the anti-eBikers who would be encroaching should any disputes arise.
> 
> Also keep in mind that an MTBer and an eBiker are frequently the same person. MTB and eBike does not define a person... it defines what he rides on a particular day. Many, probably most, eBikers are MTBers as well. eBikes are simply another category of bikes, such as fatbikes. eBikes and MTBs have FAR more in common than not. The arguments always start with a narrow minded person who can only focus on the differences while ignoring the vast similarities. We as a community need to evolve past that point.


A fat bike has a wider tire. An bike is a motorized vehicle. Great comparison. :lol: We need to evolve? :lol: This is just the type crap non ebikers are annoyed by. I don't care what others ride, but I don't have to evolve to a motorized vehicle or anything else you want me to. :lol:


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Jim_bo said:


> Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd.


This is not true. eBikers are white, opponents are bad, nonsense.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Mr Pig said:


> This is not true. eBikers are white, opponents are bad, nonsense.


What does ethnicity have to do with it?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Jim_bo said:


> Philip,
> 
> Lots of complaining here about the vitriol associated with eBikes. Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd. That said, a separate eBike subforum may be the solution. One of the biggest complaints from the anti-eBikers is that their MTB forum is being encroached upon by eBikers. A subforum dedicated to nothing but eBikes would then make it their turf and it would be the anti-eBikers who would be encroaching should any disputes arise.
> 
> Also keep in mind that an MTBer and an eBiker are frequently the same person. MTB and eBike does not define a person... it defines what he rides on a particular day. Many, probably most, eBikers are MTBers as well. eBikes are simply another category of bikes, such as fatbikes. eBikes and MTBs have FAR more in common than not. The arguments always start with a narrow minded person who can only focus on the differences while ignoring the vast similarities. We as a community need to evolve past that point.


The fact that the most fundamental part of the ebike (the motor) versus the bike (no motor) is a trivial difference to you is where the frustration lies. But yeah, go ahead and and add up the pieces to make your point. It's still non-sensical.

And again, I like eBikes and feel there is a place for them. Just don't say they're the same.


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

Philip,

I think the last few posts made my point for me.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

this thread right here is living proof that keeping things the way they are now (ebike forum) riles up a specific set of users and the longer it goes on, the more who are itching to post another opinion about it. ALL bristly and negative, this is not going to solve itself by waiting it out.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Jim_bo said:


> Philip,
> 
> I think the last few posts made my point for me.


You made your point, it however doesn't mean you're right. You're not by the way.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

jcd46 said:


> My only 02cents ...beginner's corner should be at top of all forums, I think newbies will navigate the site better, instead of posting wherever.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


Maybe a new/used bike advice forum. 90% of the beginner posts are "I just got this bike, what do you think", or "Narrowed it down to these 3", and a lot of them are not even entry-level; one lately was $3700. Many times they post in there and say thanks for the bike advice and that's it, the thread is done. People ask in all kinds of forums what others think of a certain bike, so maybe one dedicated forum for that, no matter what the bike type and experience level of the rider. That way the post is moved to the correct bike advice forum. Then the beginner forum could focus on stuff they do after they buy and ride the bike, like component upgrades and technique, etc. And if you saw my videos you know I need technique advice lol.


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Jim_bo said:


> Philip,
> 
> I think the last few posts made my point for me.


The point that was proven is that people like you are being passive aggressive. You can't come in here and try to sound like Mr. Civilized, blaming everyone else for starting sh*t, while telling everyone they should conform to your way of thinking and evolve into whatever it is you think everyone should evolve into. That's called stirring the pot, and completely contradicts the first part of your post. Again....I couldn't care less about whether or not someone rides a motorized bike. I've never seen one and I've never commented on them before this thread, today.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

life behind bars said:


> You made your point, it however doesn't mean you're right. You're not by the way.


Exactly.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey, new MTBR owner, please be advised that eBikers are lying sods, they get on here and start arguments and spout stupid platitudes all day long. Please ban them all and then bring back all the other non-Ebike folks who have been banned, even things out. 

Please make MTBR great again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Philip, you may want to look into Jim-bo's past to see what he's really about. Here's a thread he started yesterday, he's all about arguing and stirring the pot:

http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-off-topic/no-politics-religion-1083034.html

Please notice that one of the top mods had to lock down his thread and warn him to quit purposely causing problems. I think he got a sterner warning in another thread,

Maybe you can implement that if someone gets enough neg rep, they automatically get banned?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

cjsb said:


> Hey, new MTBR owner, please be advised that eBikers are lying sods, they get on here and start arguments and spout stupid platitudes all day long. Please ban them all and then bring back all the other non-Ebike folks who have been banned, even things out.
> 
> Please make MTBR great again.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


???


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

Chazpat should look up the meaning of ad hominem.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Jim_bo said:


> Chazpat should look up the meaning of ad hominem.


and you Troll....


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Jim_bo said:


> Philip,
> 
> Lots of complaining here about the vitriol associated with eBikes. Just understand that in these argumentative threads, the vitriol comes from the anti-eBike crowd. There are very few instances where a pro-eBiker starts an argument or becomes personally insulting. The same cannot be said for the anit-eBike crowd. That said, a separate eBike subforum may be the solution. One of the biggest complaints from the anti-eBikers is that their MTB forum is being encroached upon by eBikers. A subforum dedicated to nothing but eBikes would then make it their turf and it would be the anti-eBikers who would be encroaching should any disputes arise.
> 
> Also keep in mind that an MTBer and an eBiker are frequently the same person. MTB and eBike does not define a person... it defines what he rides on a particular day. Many, probably most, eBikers are MTBers as well. eBikes are simply another category of bikes, such as fatbikes. eBikes and MTBs have FAR more in common than not. The arguments always start with a narrow minded person who can only focus on the differences while ignoring the vast similarities. We as a community need to evolve past that point.


Good post. In fact, the best one I've read in a long time. We have a bunch of butt hurt individuals here that judge people before they know anything about them. Purists- bs. Bunch of whiny a**s posters. If this is how mtbrs represent themselves - shame.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Gutch said:


> Good post. In fact, the best one I've read in a long time. We have a bunch of butt hurt individuals here that judge people before they know anything about them. Purists- bs. Bunch of whiny a**s posters. If this is how mtbrs represent themselves - shame.


Judging modes of travel is not judging people. Little wonder why you struggle with simple facts.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Jim_bo said:


> Chazpat should look up the meaning of ad hominem.


Jim-bo should look up the meaning of truth.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I hate to get off the ebike discussion. Seems to be a couple of guys may have been sniffing their battery acid a bit more than normal.

How about back to some other sub forums. Here's an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the "Apparel and Protection" forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses. That tells me that forum is a worthless dead forum. Is it a topic worthy of that sub forum? Yes, but obviously the Apparel and Protection forum doesn't get much traffic, if that thread was thriving at the top of the General Discussion forum for several days and the once it was moved it died.

http://forums.mtbr.com/apparel-protection/gear-funk-1082739.html

So many sub forums could be done away with. So many topics that could easily fall in the General Discussion forum. Many start out there and have a great following. Then, suddenly are moved to a sub forum where their fate is sealed and they die pretty quick.

More traffic in main forums creates more interest in the site. More traffic, less boredom. Many come in and see the main forums with not much traffic and give up quickly. Some of that is because with so many sub forums it spreads out the audience giving the appearance that the site is slow.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

life behind bars said:


> Judging modes of travel is not judging people. Little wonder why you struggle with simple facts.


You have no FACTS that show loss trail access due to ebikers sharing legal singletrack.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I hate to get off the ebike discussion. Seems to be a couple of guys may have been sniffing their battery acid a bit more than normal.
> 
> How about back to some other sub forums. Here's an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the "Apparel and Protection" forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses. That tells me that forum is a worthless dead forum. Is it a topic worthy of that sub forum? Yes, but obviously the Apparel and Protection forum doesn't get much traffic, if that thread was thriving at the top of the General Discussion forum for several days and the once it was moved it died.
> 
> ...


That's just a symptom of a larger problem, overly enthusiastic, ineffectual moderation.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I hate to get off the ebike discussion. Seems to be a couple of guys may have been sniffing their battery acid a bit more than normal.
> 
> How about back to some other sub forums. Here's an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the "Apparel and Protection" forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses. That tells me that forum is a worthless dead forum. Is it a topic worthy of that sub forum? Yes, but obviously the Apparel and Protection forum doesn't get much traffic, if that thread was thriving at the top of the General Discussion forum for several days and the once it was moved it died.
> 
> ...


I agree that there are so many subforums with very little traffic, and it does get to a point where some consolidation is in order. The flip side is that if one forum gets too busy, threads get pushed out of sight very quickly. It's a balancing act.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Gutch said:


> You have no FACTS that show loss trail access due to ebikers sharing legal singletrack.


YET. That's the whole point. The e-bike community has a serious problem with seeing the big picture. They are so caught up in crying about their "rights as a trail user" that they can't recognize all of the potential issues that go along with motorized vehicles being used on trails that were built for non-motorized users.


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> YET. That's the whole point. The e-bike community has a serious problem with seeing the big picture. They are so caught up in crying about their "rights as a trail user" that they can't recognize all of the potential issues that go along with motorized vehicles being used on trails that were built for non-motorized users.


Valid point. Which is why we should continue to have spirited discussions concerning eBike issues where valid opinions and ideas are exchanged. The problem is that anti-eBikers are free to be as abusive and personal as they like with little restraint from moderators. However, pro-eBikers are held to a far different standard. Moderators have even gone so far as to make a legal determination (which is contrary to the legal opinion of the only openly declared environmental attorney who has commented on the topic) and then stated that any opinion contrary to that legal opinion would be seen as a violation of forum rules.

Poor, biased moderation is at least half responsible for all of the vitriol surrounding the eBike discussion.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> YET. That's the whole point. The e-bike community has a serious problem with seeing the big picture. They are so caught up in crying about their "rights as a trail user" that they can't recognize all of the potential issues that go along with motorized vehicles being used on trails that were built for non-motorized users.


Some mtbrs, like yourself have a serious problem with seeing how emtbs could help the cycling community. More numbers, more power. Ever dawn on you that a lot of riders ride both? Please get back to me with FACTS that singletrack is closed because of legal ebikes riding there.


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

Gutch said:


> Some mtbrs, like yourself have a serious problem with seeing how emtbs could help the cycling community. More numbers, more power. Ever dawn on you that a lot of riders ride both? Please get back to me with FACTS that singletrack is closed because of legal ebikes riding there.


I completely agree with this perspective. I don't own an eBike, nor do I have plans to own one any time soon. But I do recognize the potential to use the momentum of eBikes to the advantage of MTBs. But that requires open minds and open discussions. We should be weeding out the eBike haters and preserving these forums for a serious, civil exchange of ideas.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Gutch said:


> Some mtbrs, like yourself have a serious problem with seeing how emtbs could help the cycling community. More numbers, more power. Ever dawn on you that a lot of riders ride both? Please get back to me with FACTS that singletrack is closed because of legal ebikes riding there.


Again, we don't have facts YET. The problem with your request, is that by the time we have facts to present that means it's probably already too late. The kinds of facts we are going to have to present will be in the realm of losing land access. We are trying to prevent that because as soon as we start losing land access, the fun is over for everyone.

This isn't even taking into consideration things like trail damage caused by extremely heavy e-bikes, the dangers of excessive speeds, etc. I see a lot of people who fought hard for land access that are concerned about future land use because of the legitimate threat of motorized vehicles on the trails. The e-bike community can only seem to cry about "not being moderated fairly" and create straw man arguments.

I am willing to listen, but I have honestly not seen a single good argument from the e-bike community.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I don't know DJ, in many ways the more sub-forums, the better. With any sub, users who want it will use it and those who don't can just ignore it. When the subs bleed over and/or cross pollinate with issues you care about, then it allows you to chime in.

There might be a long term risk for the site by trying to be everything for everybody though. Sometimes specialized content is good. 

Crap! I said the "S" word, I might get sued.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

MTBRadmin- are you experiencing buyers remorse yet?


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> MTBRadmin- are you experiencing buyers remorse yet?


Does the lemon law apply here?


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

e-morse


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Again, we don't have facts YET. The problem with your request, is that by the time we have facts to present that means it's probably already too late. The kinds of facts we are going to have to present will be in the realm of losing land access. We are trying to prevent that because as soon as we start losing land access, the fun is over for everyone.
> 
> This isn't even taking into consideration things like trail damage caused by extremely heavy e-bikes, the dangers of excessive speeds, etc. I see a lot of people who fought hard for land access that are concerned about future land use because of the legitimate threat of motorized vehicles on the trails. The e-bike community can only seem to cry about "not being moderated fairly" and create straw man arguments.
> 
> I am willing to listen, but I have honestly not seen a single good argument from the e-bike community.


You make valid points. But this is not the appropriate thread to have this discussion. Feel free to start a new thread in the appropriate forum and I, for one, will be glad to engage in a civil and open minded discussion.


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

chazpat said:


> Philip, you may want to look into Jim-bo's past to see what he's really about. Here's a thread he started yesterday, he's all about arguing and stirring the pot:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-off-topic/no-politics-religion-1083034.html
> 
> ...


It works that if you get enough warnings you get a vacation. The neg rep = banned idea could result in pile-on attacks and sandy bib shorts.



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I hate to get off the ebike discussion. Seems to be a couple of guys may have been sniffing their battery acid a bit more than normal.
> How about back to some other sub forums. Here's an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the "Apparel and Protection" forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses. That tells me that forum is a worthless dead forum. Is it a topic worthy of that sub forum? Yes, but obviously the Apparel and Protection forum doesn't get much traffic, if that thread was thriving at the top of the General Discussion forum for several days and the once it was moved it died.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/apparel-protection/gear-funk-1082739.html
> ...


Re ordering and some re naming of sections is in order but I can see where this would have warranted it being moved.



tuckerjt07 said:


> That's just a symptom of a larger problem, overly enthusiastic, ineffectual moderation.
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Moderators gonna Mod.



Gasp4Air said:


> I agree that there are so many subforums with very little traffic, and it does get to a point where some consolidation is in order. The flip side is that if one forum gets too busy, threads get pushed out of sight very quickly. It's a balancing act.


This is a common problem.



SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Again, we don't have facts YET. The problem with your request, is that by the time we have facts to present that means it's probably already too late. The kinds of facts we are going to have to present will be in the realm of losing land access. We are trying to prevent that because as soon as we start losing land access, the fun is over for everyone.
> 
> This isn't even taking into consideration things like trail damage caused by extremely heavy e-bikes, the dangers of excessive speeds, etc. I see a lot of people who fought hard for land access that are concerned about future land use because of the legitimate threat of motorized vehicles on the trails. The e-bike community can only seem to cry about "not being moderated fairly" and create straw man arguments.
> 
> *I am willing to listen, but I have honestly not seen a single good argument from the e-bike community.*


Its possible they are too busy piloting their electric powered entitlement on your favorite trails and not here to see this argument. Or they just hang out in the ebike section and not bothered by the rest of the site. Fair land use is a big deal, I see it all over jeep sites we work with too. The more advocates you have the more lobby money you have to keep trails open and not turned into condo developments.



J.B. Weld said:


> MTBRadmin- are you experiencing buyers remorse yet?


Nope.

-Philip


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

MTBRadmin said:


> Moderators gonna Mod.


Some in particular are a tad over enthusiastic and moderate through a lens of the personal bias and beliefs.



MTBRadmin said:


> Its possible they are too busy piloting their electric powered entitlement on your favorite trails and not here to see this argument. Or they just hang out in the ebike section and not bothered by the rest of the site. Fair land use is a big deal, I see it all over jeep sites we work with too. The more advocates you have the more lobby money you have to keep trails open and not turned into condo developments.
> 
> -Philip


You've stepped in it now. There is minimal appetite here for a modern advocacy approach.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

chuckha62 said:


> I don't know DJ, in many ways the more sub-forums, the better. With any sub, users who want it will use it and those who don't can just ignore it. When the subs bleed over and/or cross pollinate with issues you care about, then it allows you to chime in.
> 
> There might be a long term risk for the site by trying to be everything for everybody though. Sometimes specialized content is good.
> 
> Crap! I said the "S" word, I might get sued.


Agreed, I'm not sure that if the whole site becomes like the Nor Cal forum where they just create all their new threads on any subject in that one forum that that would be a good thing. I imagine some of it is how one navigates the site. I almost always hit the "new posts" button but I think DJ said he navigates by just going to his favorite forums.


----------



## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

Hey there Philip! Good to meet ya!

I'll say I don't mind all the sub forums. I appreciate stuff being sorted out so I know where to look for info or where to just hang out for a while. 

The fat bike subforum is a good thing. Please don't take it away!

And I like being able to have a simple password; gets me going on the site faster!

Also, I don't like the "movie" ads. The static ads get my attention. Just ask Jenson USA; I ordered my Hei Hei from them a little over a month ago thanks to the darned ad on the right of this screen. Ha!

Welcome and good luck!

Lisa
Framed Minnesota 3.0
Kona Hei Hei Trail


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

HotHead said:


> Hey there Philip! Good to meet ya!
> 
> I'll say I don't mind all the sub forums. I appreciate stuff being sorted out so I know where to look for info or where to just hang out for a while.
> 
> ...


Why so angry, HotHead?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chazpat said:


> Agreed, I'm not sure that if the whole site becomes like the Nor Cal forum where they just create all their new threads on any subject in that one forum that that would be a good thing. I imagine some of it is how one navigates the site. I almost always hit the "new posts" button but I think DJ said he navigates by just going to his favorite forums.


Yes I do navigate that way. Jump around from forum of interest to forum of interest. I doubt very many new users coming in go to the "new posts" button first. It doesn't exactly stand out and I'm sure it is over looked by many. I think that tool of navigation is one that is picked up by some after time spent in here.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

tuckerjt07 said:


> *Some in particular are a tad over enthusiastic and moderate through a lens of the personal bias and beliefs.*
> You've stepped in it now. There is minimal appetite here for a modern advocacy approach.
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Its rare that I don't hear this from every site I work on. At least you said there are only some here you you don't agree with.

-Philip


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

MTBRadmin said:


> Its rare that I don't hear this from every site I work on. At least you said there are only some here you you don't agree with.
> 
> -Philip


My issue is when you, as a mod, say "I don't like X" in a thread and then moderate the same thread in a manner that shows a double standard against X it's wrong. Even doing the same in a separate thread is wrong.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

tuckerjt07 said:


> My issue is when you, as a mod, say "I don't like X" in a thread and then moderate the same thread in a manner that shows a double standard against X it's wrong. Even doing the same in a separate thread is wrong.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


You can report the post, all the mods including me see it when you do. 
-Philip


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

MTBRadmin said:


> You can report the post, all the mods including me see it when you do.
> -Philip


Happened a long time back but will do it in the future.

Basically it was I don't like X so if other people who don't want to troll you I won't stop it but you can't return the favor.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Here's an example of a thread that was in the General Discussion forum. It was doing great in there. Some great helpful serious responses and some innocent humorous ones. In my mind it falls under a General Discussion topic. Yet it was moved over to the "Apparel and Protection" forum two days ago. Since it was moved it has received ZERO responses.


Maybe that thread was abandoned after someone posted a Seinfeld video clip that didn't relate to the thread topic at all.  :lol:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> Maybe that thread was abandoned after someone posted a Seinfeld video clip that didn't relate to the thread topic at all.  :lol:


Actually it everything to do with the topic. Everyone was making washing the funk out of your gear so hard. It seemed everyone's solution was 5 steps or more. Double dipping a chip can be mind bending if you are at a social gathering and have to remember to go through so much trouble as to not to double dip a chip. Just dip it and be done with it. Just wash the garment and be done with it. To enter DJ's train of thought is to go where no man has gone before. 

Besides go back to that thread. The Seinfeld clip was posted early on. There were still 3 days of active posting going on after it. Then it was moved and not a single post until I went in and made a comment of it being moved and it died because of the move.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

vit·ri·ol
ˈvitrēəl,ˈvitrēˌôl/Submit
noun
1.
cruel and bitter criticism.
"her mother's sudden gush of fury and vitriol"
2.
archaicliterary
sulfuric acid.
3. 
discussions of motor assist in a group of people who
desire the freedom and challenge of doing it themselves


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Klurejr said:


> I am not a fan of this whack-a-mole approach.


But whack-a-mole is a heap of fun with enough beer.


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Cornfield said:


> Maybe that thread was abandoned after someone posted a Seinfeld video clip that didn't relate to the thread topic at all.  :lol:


Not possible. EVERY thread has a relevant Seinfeld scene associated with it in some way.


----------



## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

The reputation system should be abandoned. I have not engaged in any personal attacks. I have remained civil in the face of incivility. But, given that I have a differing opinion about eBikes than many on this site, below are a few of the comments that have been sent to me with negative reputation:

-Nice entitlement. Really found your cause, eh? Go away.

-Idiot, go back into the sticks and keep kissing Donalds *^&

-You're a ****ing idiot


There is no excuse in this kind of abusive behavior. And the reputation system only encourages that.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chuckha62 said:


> Not possible. EVERY thread has a relevant Seinfeld scene associated with it in some way.


Yep, he's not a fan so it all falls short of hitting the mark.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Jim_bo said:


> The reputation system should be abandoned. I have not engaged in any personal attacks. I have remained civil in the face of incivility. But, given that I have a differing opinion about eBikes than many on this site, below are a few of the comments that have been sent to me with negative reputation:
> 
> -Nice entitlement. Really found your cause, eh? Go away.
> 
> ...


nah the rep system is designed to let you reflect on how you are wording things in the general giant group vs your one way of saying it. You can make your points and arguments very well said and understood -without- collecting neg rep, [it just takes more time to draft your posts before pounding save button...

.... I have zero idea how I get pos rep but I get negged also, because I am pretty much a dick half the time and an idiot the other 3/4ths the time.

However, if you are getting neg rep with those sort of comments embedded, and all the time, you may need to ask a mod (who acts cool headed, or else they aren't mods) and ask them who is the dick here, me or the neg repper. because clowns who just deliver neg rep can be sorted out and mods need to know who the neg repping boneheads are.


----------



## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Jim_bo said:


> The reputation system should be abandoned. I have not engaged in any personal attacks. I have remained civil in the face of incivility. But, given that I have a differing opinion about eBikes than many on this site, below are a few of the comments that have been sent to me with negative reputation:
> 
> -Nice entitlement. Really found your cause, eh? Go away.
> 
> ...


I get those lovely immature comments also. Sometimes so bad it sounds like I kicked their dog and molested their boyfriend!


----------



## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

127.0.0.1 said:


> nah the rep system is designed to let you reflect on how you are wording things in the general giant group vs your one way of saying it. You can make your points and arguments very well said and understood -without- collecting neg rep, [it just takes more time to draft your posts before pounding save button...


Given the wording of the comments that go with the negative rep, I'd say the system is not working.

The reputation system really becomes little more than a high school popularity contest. If you say things that align with the more aggressive posters (regardless of how you say it), you get lots of positive rep. But, if you have a different opinion than the aggressive posters (regardless of how you say it), you get neg rep along with abusive comments.

I have been personally attacked on this forum so many times I've lost count. I usually let the offender's bitterness speak for itself. However, I do not personally attack anyone and I have never given neg rep. The neg rep system is really childish.



127.0.0.1 said:


> .... I have zero idea how I get pos rep but I get negged also, because I am pretty much a dick half the time and an idiot the other 3/4ths the time.


I think this does a good job of making my point for me. Having positive rep is far more about saying things that align with people's agendas rather than a reflection of tone, demeanor, or credibility of a post.


----------



## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> So many sub forums could be done away with. So many topics that could easily fall in the General Discussion forum. Many start out there and have a great following. Then, suddenly are moved to a sub forum where their fate is sealed and they die pretty quick.
> 
> More traffic in main forums creates more interest in the site. More traffic, less boredom. Many come in and see the main forums with not much traffic and give up quickly. Some of that is because with so many sub forums it spreads out the audience giving the appearance that the site is slow.


There needs to be balance and NorCal is an excellent example of the crap storm you get when anything and everything is allowed to be posted in one spot. For those who want to look in NorCal for regional events and trail info they must wade through hundreds of off topic posts about trucks, RC cars, beer, etc or Post that would be better suited in other places on the site, perhaps about specific brand issues or drive-train discussion, dropper post discussions or brake discussions.

This devalues the experience on MTBR in another way, users come and search the Brake Time section to find an answer but cannot because the thread with the Answer is in the NorCal section..... Many users come to this site and use the site navigation to find a specific section and browse, so those sections server a purpose, but perhaps we can review activity in those subs to see which ones have low traffic and set a threshhold to close them and push the threads back to the general section.

I don't think there is an easy answer to this.

Trust me when I say I agree that many of the sub-forums or sub-sections need to be merged or pruned. I made a big list for FC a few years ago. No need for Components and 29er components to name just 2. Someone else mentioned no longer having a wheel size specific forums at all... lots of ideas.

If we eliminate the apparel and protection forum, then all those discussions end up in General, is that good? Is that bad? I am not really sure.

But I know this for certain, if so many subs are removed that the General forum starts to look like the NorCal forum I will jump ship.


----------



## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Just moved this to the Off Camber Section, can anyone give me a reason why it would belong in the General Section?

http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-off-topic/cutting-your-own-hair-1083189.html

If that has no business in General, then the Gear Funk has no business in General either...... ;-)


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> There needs to be balance and NorCal is an excellent example of the crap storm you get when anything and everything is allowed to be posted in one spot. For those who want to look in NorCal for regional events and trail info they must wade through hundreds of off topic posts about trucks, RC cars, beer, etc or Post that would be better suited in other places on the site, perhaps about specific brand issues or drive-train discussion, dropper post discussions or brake discussions.
> 
> This devalues the experience on MTBR in another way, users come and search the Brake Time section to find an answer but cannot because the thread with the Answer is in the NorCal section..... Many users come to this site and use the site navigation to find a specific section and browse, so those sections server a purpose, but perhaps we can review activity in those subs to see which ones have low traffic and set a threshhold to close them and push the threads back to the general section.
> 
> ...


Just wait! California is going to split into 3 soon! Imagine the possibilities!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Finch Platte said:


> Just wait! California is going to split into 3 soon! Imagine the possibilities!


Honestly I think there is something to be said for having a NorCal, Central Cal and SoCal sections on this site since the state is so large and has so many riding areas, but figuring out what posts would need to be moved to it would be a full time job.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Klurejr said:


> Just moved this to the Off Camber Section, can anyone give me a reason why it would belong in the General Section?


Because Picard.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Klurejr said:


> Honestly I think there is something to be said for having a NorCal, Central Cal and SoCal sections on this site since the state is so large and has so many riding areas, but figuring out what posts would need to be moved to it would be a full time job.


That will fit very well if the state breaks up into three as proposed by many.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Curveball said:


> That will fit very well if the state breaks up into three as proposed by many.


I doub't the state will actually break up, NorCal could not afford to pave the roads (in my mind NorCal starts north of Frisco.)


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Klurejr said:


> I doub't the state will actually break up, NorCal could not afford to pave the roads (in my mind NorCal starts north of Frisco.)


You say that like it's a bad thing. Maybe if the roads are left unpaved, they'll eventually revert to singletracks. Win!


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yep, he's not a fan so it all falls short of hitting the mark.


I am a fan, just not a very good one. I admit I didn't even watch the clip, and I don't know what it's really about, but how could chip dipping be related to gear funk?? Don't answer that, I'll try to make the connection next time.

@Phillip: Can you increase the file size for gifs by quite a lot, I can't even upload/post small ones, only the tiniest ones will upload.









*EDIT: And it would be nice if we could post some of these modern formats, like gifv and mp4 embeds!

https://gfycat.com/PeriodicActualIberianbarbel


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Klurejr said:


> There needs to be balance and NorCal is an excellent example of the crap storm you get when anything and everything is allowed to be posted in one spot. For those who want to look in NorCal for regional events and trail info they must wade through hundreds of off topic posts about trucks, RC cars, beer, etc or Post that would be better suited in other places on the site, perhaps about specific brand issues or drive-train discussion, dropper post discussions or brake discussions.
> 
> This devalues the experience on MTBR in another way, users come and search the Brake Time section to find an answer but cannot because the thread with the Answer is in the NorCal section..... Many users come to this site and use the site navigation to find a specific section and browse, so those sections server a purpose, but perhaps we can review activity in those subs to see which ones have low traffic and set a threshhold to close them and push the threads back to the general section.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, and I never said the Gear Funk thread didn't belong in the Apparel and Protection forum. I was just saying once it got moved to that forum it immediately died.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> I am a fan, just not a very good one. I admit I didn't even watch the clip, and I don't know what it's really about, but how could chip dipping be related to gear funk?? Don't answer that, I'll try to make the connection next time.


I don't have to answer that "again". I'll just direct you back to post #383 that you skimmed.:lol:


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yep, he's not a fan so it all falls short of hitting the mark.


I guess I'm not much of a fan either but I have seen that episode and I don't see what that clip has to do with the gear funk thread, the "double-dip" thing doesn't really work without explanation.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

J.B. Weld said:


> I guess I'm not much of a fan either but I have seen that episode and I don't see what that clip has to do with the gear funk thread, the "double-dip" thing doesn't really work without explanation.


I'd agree with you on that. Not many would see the connection without an explanation. It was a lame reference and for that I apologize.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Where did Picard disappear to?


----------



## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Cleared2land said:


> Where did Picard disappear to?


Something happened to his old account. He is sito40, now.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

slowpoker said:


> Something happened to his old account. He is sito40, now.


And easily sniffed out. Just look for the threads that go around in circles. Most likely he'll be in there keeping it going in that direction.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Like this one:

http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-off-topic/cutting-your-own-hair-1083189.html#post13739326


----------



## IamDonna (Jul 2, 2018)

MTBRadmin said:


> The content of the forum is driven by enthusiast members and not the companies that make the products. We don't make a point of curating the conversations. The editorial side is still dictated by what is new and popular but everyone will have differing opinions on what is cool/not cool.
> 
> Any new sections added will go through the mod team for a discussion on logistics and make sure we can support it well. Your suggestion will be discussed.
> 
> -Philip


Hi Philip, I would like to congratulate your firm for acquiring the mtbr forum. I am a newbie here, and I would like to make a suggestion here. Can you please make these forums more friendly for newcomers.
My experience was quite rough here because I had difficulties in figuring out of "how things work over here" and during these findings, I was hit with a negative reputation. While someone else posted in the forum about negative reputation and guess!! Instead of getting a helpful answer; he was trolled. 
Your attention towards this matter would be much appreciated!!
Thanks


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

IamDonna said:


> Hi Philip, I would like to congratulate your firm for acquiring the mtbr forum. I am a newbie here, and I would like to make a suggestion here. Can you please make these forums more friendly for newcomers.
> My experience was quite rough here because I had difficulties in figuring out of "how things work over here" and during these findings, I was hit with a negative reputation. While someone else posted in the forum about negative reputation and guess!! Instead of getting a helpful answer; he was trolled.
> Your attention towards this matter would be much appreciated!!
> Thanks


you got negged because you are posting exactly like a spam robot would post
---
1)

Hello Everyone! Donna Here 
I am a virtual assistant and just started cycling for focusing on my health & fitness so, I would consider myself as a beginner. I would require a lot of inspiration and tips because I know how lazy I am when it comes to workout. 
Cheers & love to every community member 

2)

quite"Hello members, 
Along with fireworks, parades, concerts, and barbecues, you can get more on July 4th through Massive Sales on Cycling Stores. 
So, while surfing on the web, I 've discovered some great stores to buy from and would love to share with the whole community. "

What the hell is a virtual assistant ? no....I don't want to know


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

IamDonna said:


> Hi Philip, I would like to congratulate your firm for acquiring the mtbr forum. I am a newbie here, and I would like to make a suggestion here. Can you please make these forums more friendly for newcomers.
> My experience was quite rough here because I had difficulties in figuring out of "how things work over here" and during these findings, I was hit with a negative reputation. While someone else posted in the forum about negative reputation and guess!! Instead of getting a helpful answer; he was trolled.
> Your attention towards this matter would be much appreciated!!
> Thanks


I saw your neg rep and was curious so I looked at your other posts. My guess is that in one of your posts, you had links to four bike stores. Three of them I've heard of and one I haven't (and I'm pretty experienced knowing on-line bike stores). So I guessed you had just joined to put in links to some on-line shop you are pushing and I assumed someone else thought the same and neg rep'ed you (I didn't).

Putting in links to commercial sites when you first join is going to arouse suspicion.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

IamDonna said:


> Hi Philip, I would like to congratulate your firm for acquiring the mtbr forum. I am a newbie here, and I would like to make a suggestion here. Can you please make these forums more friendly for newcomers.
> My experience was quite rough here because I had difficulties in figuring out of "how things work over here" and during these findings, I was hit with a negative reputation. While someone else posted in the forum about negative reputation and guess!! Instead of getting a helpful answer; he was trolled.
> Your attention towards this matter would be much appreciated!!
> Thanks


You got the same reception from your the same "4th of July" thread over at RBR, but you're not all grumpy at them...

If you want to be taken seriously don't act like a spambot


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

127.0.0.1 said:


> What the hell is a virtual assistant ?


Siriously?


----------



## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

chazpat said:


> Putting in links to commercial sites when you first join is going to arouse suspicion.


It is also against site posting rules for those who represent vendors of any sort.


----------



## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

IamDonna said:


> Hi Philip, I would like to congratulate your firm for acquiring the mtbr forum. I am a newbie here, and I would like to make a suggestion here. Can you please make these forums more friendly for newcomers.
> My experience was quite rough here because I had difficulties in figuring out of "how things work over here" and during these findings, I was hit with a negative reputation. While someone else posted in the forum about negative reputation and guess!! Instead of getting a helpful answer; he was trolled.
> Your attention towards this matter would be much appreciated!!
> Thanks


I went back and looked at your posts and apologize that you were met with some negativity, but your first few posts seemed very spammy.

I moved your post about 4th of July deals to the "where are the best deals" section of the forum, it would get better traction there.


----------



## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

MTBRadmin said:


> I am going to try and track these down. Can you get me a screen grab of what you see as well as the URL the ad is directing to?
> -Philip


Here you go. It just happened this morning. I was in the Trek sub forum when it happened.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> I am a fan, just not a very good one. I admit I didn't even watch the clip, and I don't know what it's really about, but how could chip dipping be related to gear funk?? Don't answer that, I'll try to make the connection next time.
> 
> @Phillip: Can you increase the file size for gifs by quite a lot, I can't even upload/post small ones, only the tiniest ones will upload.
> 
> ...


I will sort that today.



IamDonna said:


> Hi Philip, I would like to congratulate your firm for acquiring the mtbr forum. I am a newbie here, and I would like to make a suggestion here. Can you please make these forums more friendly for newcomers.
> My experience was quite rough here because I had difficulties in figuring out of "how things work over here" and during these findings, I was hit with a negative reputation. While someone else posted in the forum about negative reputation and guess!! Instead of getting a helpful answer; he was trolled.
> Your attention towards this matter would be much appreciated!!
> Thanks


We are looking at re ordering the forum some to help new users acclimate better.



huckleberry hound said:


> Here you go. It just happened this morning. I was in the Trek sub forum when it happened.
> 
> View attachment 1207929
> 
> ...


This stupid thing again! I will report this, thanks!
-Philip


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

MTBRadmin said:


> You can report the post, all the mods including me see it when you do.
> -Philip


Just reported one for you.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

MTBRadmin said:


> I will sort that today.


Thanks!


----------



## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Jim_bo said:


> The reputation system should be abandoned. I have not engaged in any personal attacks. I have remained civil in the face of incivility. But, given that I have a differing opinion about eBikes than many on this site, below are a few of the comments that have been sent to me with negative reputation:
> 
> -Nice entitlement. Really found your cause, eh? Go away.
> 
> ...


"If you run in to an a-hole in the morning, you ran into an a-hole, if you run into a-holes all day, you're the a-hole"


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

This thread should be a sticky.


----------



## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> Just moved this to the Off Camber Section, can anyone give me a reason why it would belong in the General Section?
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-off-topic/cutting-your-own-hair-1083189.html
> 
> If that has no business in General, then the Gear Funk has no business in General either...... ;-)


I would say that there is an awful lot of people that don't know that off caber even exists, let alone that it's for "everything else" style threads. theres been a few who have posted in General over the years no understanding it is general mtb discussion, not generally everything ELSE. Mostly becasue they didn't take the time to get a feel for the forum, especially the stuff that gets posted in the sub forums and jsut when General, what thats the spot for my general crap post.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Thanks for taking my suggestion and making this thread a sticky. 

I normally post issues with the site over in the “Site Feedback / Issues” forum. But this thread seems to be appropriate as of late. 

Philip,
Just in the last two days this site has been logging me out when I give it a break on my phone and tablet. It’s never done this before and it’s a big time pita. And yes the little box for “remember me” is checked and It still does it. Anybody else having this issue? And what’s the fix?


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

First try clearing your browser cache/cookies.
-Philip



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Thanks for taking my suggestion and making this thread a sticky.
> 
> I normally post issues with the site over in the "Site Feedback / Issues" forum. But this thread seems to be appropriate as of late.
> 
> ...


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

MTBRadmin said:


> First try clearing your browser cache/cookies.
> -Philip


I did that with my cell phone after your suggestion and it seems to have fixed the issue. I'll let you know if it returns.

Thank you, Sir.


----------



## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I did that with my cell phone after your suggestion and it seems to have fixed the issue. I'll let you know if it returns.
> 
> Thank you, Sir.


Keep me posted, browsers will often hold a grudge. 
-Philip


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

MTBRadmin said:


> Keep me posted, browsers will often hold a grudge.
> -Philip


Best way to do it on Chrome is

1. Hit F12 on Windows, I think it is Command + Option + I on Mac (my fingers auto pilot it so not 100%) or right click the page and click on Inspect achieves the same.

2. Right click on the refresh icon and select the bottom option, "Empty Cache and Hard Reload"

3. Hit F12 or the Mac command again and you're done.

There is a more thorough way through dev tools on any browser but it's a complicated walk through.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Any chance for polls to come up in Tapatalk? Thanks!

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## MTBRadmin (Jun 26, 2018)

jcd46 said:


> Any chance for polls to come up in Tapatalk? Thanks!
> Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


Tapatalk is 3rd party software. We don't control all of what it can do. 
-Philip


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Best way to do it on Chrome is
> 
> 1. Hit F12 on Windows, I think it is Command + Option + I on Mac (my fingers auto pilot it so not 100%) or right click the page and click on Inspect achieves the same.
> 
> ...


Shift + F5 does the same thing in any browser.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Klurejr said:


> Shift + F5 does the same thing in any browser.


Nope, it doesn't. That performs a hard reload but does not bust the cache. Shift + F5 ignores the cache while loading the page, but doesn't clear it completely. Where it is deficient, especially important in this instance, is it does nothing for files, most importantly in this case JS, that do not load as part of the page load and are requested after the fact. The method I posted will remove those where Shift + F5 will not.

Here is a real world example. Imagine you are loading a dynamic content page optimized for speed that contains media types who are lazy loaded and whose source is set to a filepath located in an external fileshare. One can assume that if the file is deleted from the fileshare that the request for that file should 404. However, it will not because the browser knows what exists at that address, has it cached, and pulls the data out of the cache to save time and bandwidth. Since those files are being lazy loaded the request for them may not go out until well after the page load event has completed. In this case even with a Shift + F5 the file will not disappear, 404, because the request for it happens outside of page load and will still use the cache.

Here is some good reading material on the differences as they pertain to Chrome, https://www.ghacks.net/2018/01/24/google-chrome-hard-reload-vs-normal-reload

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Klurejr said:


> There needs to be balance and NorCal is an excellent example of the crap storm you get when anything and everything is allowed to be posted in one spot. For those who want to look in NorCal for regional events and trail info they must wade through hundreds of off topic posts about trucks, RC cars, beer, etc or Post that would be better suited in other places on the site, perhaps about specific brand issues or drive-train discussion, dropper post discussions or brake discussions.
> 
> This devalues the experience on MTBR in another way, users come and search the Brake Time section to find an answer but cannot because the thread with the Answer is in the NorCal section..... Many users come to this site and use the site navigation to find a specific section and browse, so those sections server a purpose, but perhaps we can review activity in those subs to see which ones have low traffic and set a threshhold to close them and push the threads back to the general section.
> 
> ...


I find this really interesting because didn't you write earlier that the all-mountain forum should be deleted?

"Frankly the All Mountain section is kinda pointless."

OK, wait a minute....

Isn't fork size the major determinant between casual 'fun' XC riding and 'serious' downhill riding? Would you want to put the AM forum into the Downhill/Freeride Forum? Maybe that's fine, I don't go into either of them, but so many people now have long-travel forks that they certainly need somewhere to go besides Shocks and Suspension. If there are two XC forums, there certainly should be at least one AM forum right? I would not surprised if 3-4 times as many riders on here have an AM bike compared with a real lightweight XC bike.

The forums I kinda wonder about, especially compared to something like AM:
Cargo Bikes
Fifty+ Years Old (they all post everywhere anyway)
Folding & Travel Bikes
Tandem Mountain Bikes

Again, I don't ride AM, I may never even buy one, but it seems like that forum is 10 times more important than the ones above.

As far as NorCal is concerned, maybe going out on a very thin limb on this one, but because FC is from there, and he posts in there a lot, that the replies just kind of crystallized and snowballed into a self-sufficient forum eventually? In other words, it's not the region, it's the (previous) owner posting in there, so if the owner was for example in Florida, then maybe the Florida forum would have wound up like that. No big deal, a natural occurrence.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

chuckha62 said:


> The fact that the most fundamental part of the ebike (the motor) versus the bike (no motor) is a trivial difference to you is where the frustration lies. But yeah, go ahead and and add up the pieces to make your point. It's still non-sensical.
> 
> And again, I like eBikes and feel there is a place for them. Just don't say they're the same.


Yes, there is a big difference between a bike with a battery and motor compared with a bike that just pedals. But an e-mountain bike is still a mountain bike. It's not a moped, it's not a motorcycle, it's a mountain bike. You remove the motor and battery, and you still have a mountain bike, not a motorcycle or moped w/o any power to them. Maybe E-bikes are allowed everywhere, maybe not everywhere, but that's a separate issue from it actually being a mountain bike. It IS a mountain bike, that has a motor and battery. It is. Let's just accept that fact and then get on with the access arguments. Two separate issues.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> Yes, there is a big difference between a bike with a battery and motor compared with a bike that just pedals. But an e-mountain bike is still a mountain bike. It's not a moped, it's not a motorcycle, it's a mountain bike. You remove the motor and battery, and you still have a mountain bike, not a motorcycle or moped w/o any power to them. Maybe E-bikes are allowed everywhere, maybe not everywhere, but that's a separate issue from it actually being a mountain bike. It IS a mountain bike, that has a motor and battery. It is. Let's just accept that fact and then get on with the access arguments. Two separate issues.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

richj8990 said:


> Yes, there is a big difference between a bike with a battery and motor compared with a bike that just pedals. But an e-mountain bike is still a mountain bike. It's not a moped, it's not a motorcycle, it's a mountain bike. You remove the motor and battery, and you still have a mountain bike, not a motorcycle or moped w/o any power to them. Maybe E-bikes are allowed everywhere, maybe not everywhere, but that's a separate issue from it actually being a mountain bike. It IS a mountain bike, that has a motor and battery. It is. Let's just accept that fact and then get on with the access arguments. Two separate issues.


stupidest post on this entire planet, probably


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

richj8990 said:


> Yes, there is a big difference between a bike with a battery and motor compared with a bike that just pedals. But an e-mountain bike is still a mountain bike. It's not a moped, it's not a motorcycle, it's a mountain bike. You remove the motor and battery, and you still have a mountain bike, not a motorcycle or moped w/o any power to them. Maybe E-bikes are allowed everywhere, maybe not everywhere, but that's a separate issue from it actually being a mountain bike. It IS a mountain bike, that has a motor and battery. It is. Let's just accept that fact and then get on with the access arguments. Two separate issues.


An ebike is just a modern day moped, don't let the marketing fool you. Seems a lot of people don't want to admit that, probably because of that one joke.

And if we get rid of the Fifty+ Years Old forum, where would we ask questions about our prostates? In the AM forum?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

chazpat said:


> And if we get rid of the Fifty+ Years Old forum, where would we ask questions about our prostates? In the AM forum?


Sounds like the appropriate forum.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

chazpat said:


> And if we get rid of the Fifty+ Years Old forum, where would we ask questions about our prostates?


Merge with the one-finger braking thread.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Rather than get rid of sub-forums, have them moderated so that the haters can be blocked from them.

A good example is the gravel forum. It has been largely spoiled by the activities of vehement trolls who either cannot see the point of it, or find it somehow detracts from their miserable lives. (I see some have been now banned, thanks)

The same happened in the fatbike forum in its early days, now it's mainstream.

And as for eBikes? To me they are like bikes with gears and suspension, fun to ride, but too much unnecessary technology, so I have no desire to own one. However, almost all their parts are common with mtbs, so they should have a forum here. 

I'll simply do the adult thing and exercise my discretion and not visit it. To go there and troll the members is plain rude and should bring a ban.

Another thing for all members to bear in mind is the MTBR has an international reach. What is the case in the USA may not be the case elsewhere, eg some countries do not have restricted access to trails, or in the case of the Scandi countries and Scotland have fully open access rights to almost all land and waters.

A like button would save a lot of unnecessary posting of agreement.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

life behind bars said:


> Sounds like the appropriate forum.


Maybe we need a prostate forum?


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

the one ring said:


> Merge with the one-finger braking thread.


Probably under the title "Digital Access" or sumthin":thumbsup:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)




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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Velobike said:


> Rather than get rid of sub-forums, have them moderated so that the haters can be blocked from them.
> 
> A good example is the gravel forum. It has been largely spoiled by the activities of vehement trolls who either cannot see the point of it, or find it somehow detracts from their miserable lives. (I see some have been now banned, thanks)
> 
> ...


Most are moderated to a certain extent, but note that all the moderators are volunteers, no one gets paid to do this. the Mods rely heavily on the "report post" button to alert the mods assigned to the section in question.

If you see someone post something that is against the site rules, or pushing the line, please use the report feature. Please do not assume that the mods have time to read every single post in every single forum just to be a watch dog.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

life behind bars said:


> Negged.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to life behind bars again.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Deleted (not funny without context)


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Deleted with some context but not funny.

The boy ran across the boat and slid on the wet floor, before stubbing his toe and falling overboard.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

fc said:


> I am pleased to announce that Mtbr and Roadbikereview have been acquired by Verticalscope Inc. from Invenda Corp. They are a media company expert in enthusiast websites and forum management with many revered brands such as Autoguide and The Truth About Cars.
> 
> Myself, Francis Cebedo and most members of the editorial and content team will continue on and run Mtbr and Roadbikereview. The transition should be fairly seamless as we slowly make improvements as they make sense.
> 
> ...


Not sure how I missed this originally, but it's about time.


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

Klurejr said:


> Most are moderated to a certain extent, but note that all the moderators are volunteers, no one gets paid to do this. the Mods rely heavily on the "report post" button to alert the mods assigned to the section in question.
> 
> If you see someone post something that is against the site rules, or pushing the line, please use the report feature. Please do not assume that the mods have time to read every single post in every single forum just to be a watch dog.


If moderators rely heavily on the report feature, then they should provide the courtesy of a follow up to the reporter. With no follow up, reporters can only assume they have been ignored and will be disincentivized to report in the future.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Jim_bo said:


> If moderators rely heavily on the report feature, then they should provide the courtesy of a follow up to the reporter. With no follow up, reporters can only assume they have been ignored and will be disincentivized to report in the future.


it would be a nice feature to have, some sort of your report has been read, etc.

For now however, Most of the reports are for the spam bots and many times multiple people report the same posts, so taking the time to write out a manual reply to every single person who reports something would be pretty time consuming. There are Mondays when I log into my email I use for this site and have 20 reported posts to dig through.

Perhaps Phillip will see your posts and let us know if the site will get some sort of functionality in that regards once it is moved up to the new servers.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

So, when will we be seeing some "improvements"?


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Finch Platte said:


> So, when will we be seeing some "improvements"?


I don't think the e-bike survey I got today when going to the single speed forum was an "improvement" but I could be wrong

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

blaklabl said:


> I don't think the e-bike survey I got today when going to the single speed forum was an "improvement" but I could be wrong
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


hey, any chance I get to express my e-MTB hatred to manufacturers, is a plus!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)




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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Cool! That new spam filter option they installed must be working. 

I'm not seeing any of that^^ spam.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Any Updates on moving the site to the new servers?


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Klurejr said:


> Any Updates on moving the site to the new servers?


I guess that's a "Nope"!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I accept the non-answer, as a non-answer.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

And here we go again.:madman:


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

MTBR is the only discussion forum I visit, or have ever visited, where this type of concerted attack is apparently unsolvable.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

^ You would think that already owning multiple websites, they would have that issue already solved. 

Yes, I do realize that statement is obvious.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

We're going off the rails on a crazy (spam freight) train.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

AutoGuide has a good antispam protection. The problem it's that mtbr is on a totally different platform. I'm not sure when the switch will happen.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

"You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later."

So many spammers, so little neg reps to give.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

********Emergency, Emergency********

All of a sudden I can't get a photo to post via my iPhone. I can still do it with my iPad.

*Anybody know what could have changed in the last 4 days?*


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> All of a sudden I can't get a photo to post via my iPhone. I can still do it with my iPad.
> 
> *Anybody know what could have changed in the last 4 days?*


What are your iOS, Tapatalk and/or Safari versions on the two. That's the only possible delta between the two as far as that front goes.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

DeadGrandpa said:


> I'm here for the humor, most of the time. Gotta say that this is the funniest thread I've read in a long time.
> 
> Oh, while you're making improvements, could you please try to offer spelling and punctuation help to those who need it? MTBRs are an illiterate group, except for the ladies. Somehow they seem more edumacated.


That's built into almost any browser, and in many cases implemented in the OS.

Those who need it actually saw the red lines under misspelled text and ignored them. Maybe it actually made them more angry and type faster  Why this ignorance is gender specific, I will let you edumacate us all


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> All of a sudden I can't get a photo to post via my iPhone. I can still do it with my iPad.
> 
> *Anybody know what could have changed in the last 4 days?*


I'm wearing new underwear. 
Okay,,, it's not "new" but freshly laundered.

I'll put the old one's back on when I get home. Try posting pics after 7 am MST.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

bachman1961 said:


> I'm wearing new underwear.
> Okay,,, it's not "new" but freshly laundered.
> 
> I'll put the old one's back on when I get home. Try posting pics after 7 am MST.


Picard?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bachman1961 said:


> I'm wearing new underwear.
> Okay,,, it's not "new" but freshly laundered.
> 
> I'll put the old one's back on when I get home. Try posting pics after 7 am MST.


Thanks Bach, but that photo posting issue I was having was exactly one year ago. Something fixed it, no idea how. And just in case you were wondering, my underwear is always clean. Unless of course it's not, then it's exchanged out for a freshy.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Thanks Bach, but that photo posting issue I was having was exactly one year ago. Something fixed it, no idea how. And just in case you were wondering, my underwear is always clean. Unless of course it's not, then it's exchanged out for a freshy.


:thumbsup:

Good news !! Can't believe I missed the date there but &#8230;.

I'm no longer sure how that equation fits with my undies. A few days old or a year and a few days ?

I'll start posting in the vintage section just to be safe.


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