# I should have waited till next years models before buying an E-mtb?



## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

If we took that attitude because we are afraid that the new model will obsolete the current model, we would never get into the game.
Information is starting to become available on the 2018 e-bikes and sure enough, I wish I had waited before purchasing a 2017 Bosch assisted full suspension Haibike 6 months ago.
I went with the Haibike because it had 10 mm more suspension travel than the Levo's.
I was concerned about the Bosch CX motors 2.5 to 1 internal reduction that requires a very small front chain ring and the resulting increased internal drag and noise.

Apparently for 2018, the higher end Levo's will have more suspension travel and EX-1 drive train and Bosch is going back to normal sized front chain rings.
This allows for a 25% smaller Bosch motor, more efficiency and less noise.
It has been mentioned before that maybe the manufacturers are reading these forums and that it is a good idea to post constructive criticism to give them some feedback.
Highroad 2


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

highroad 2 said:


> ...and Bosch is going back to normal sized front chain rings.
> This allows for a 25% smaller Bosch motor, more efficiency and less noise.


Where have you seen this?

All the 2018 Bosch I've heard of have the same CX motor. The only difference is the battery integration.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

I find it amusing that Specialized chose to fix their too low of a BB by adding a longer fork and 165mm cranks. Now with a throttle too. I wonder if that will make it stateside or if they'll disable it?


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

Harryman said:


> Now with a throttle too.


Not sure what you have seen but there is no throttle.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

eFat

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/first-look-bosch-electric-bike-2018-ebike/

This is where I found the possible misinformation if there is a difference between the Active line and CX line of Bosch motors.
In my opinion the CX line needs to get rid of the small front chain wheel also.
My Haibike came with an 18t front chain ring which times 2.5 equals 45 teeth.
What mountain bike comes with a 45t front chain ring that has a decent granny gear?
I went to a 14t front chain ring which is really a 35t.
A lot of wear with only 14t and not much chain wrap especially with the Haibike SES sprocket.

Harryman

The little I have ridden the Levo I noticed many pedal strikes that I do not notice on my Haibike.
I saw another post where a guy went with 155 mm cranks on a Levo.
I found that the Levo climbs short steep pitchs better than my Haibike possibly due to the lower bottom bracket.

Thanks
Highroad 2


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

Yes, the Active Line is not for MTB. But I agree that this internal reduction is not a good thing. I also replaced a 18t with 15t and now 14t but even with 42t on the cassette it's not enough for me...


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Yeah, everyone complains about pedal strikes with the Levo, they borked something with the geometry and my guess is that they already had too much money in the carbon molds to make any changes, so it's not a bug it's a feature. It's not an issue with other emtbs. 

Push a button and it moves without pedalling. Other brands have disabled it on US versions since people will consider it a throttle. 

Those small chainrings also wear out quickly and eat chains, it would be more of a problem if you ride in the wet.


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## BootneyLee (Apr 25, 2017)

Harryman said:


> Yeah, everyone complains about pedal strikes with the Levo, they borked something with the geometry and my guess is that they already had too much money in the carbon molds to make any changes, so it's not a bug it's a feature. It's not an issue with other emtbs.
> 
> Push a button and it moves without pedalling. Other brands have disabled it on US versions since people will consider it a throttle.
> 
> Those small chainrings also wear out quickly and eat chains, it would be more of a problem if you ride in the wet.


Pedal strikes are not an issue for me.

The "throttle" is a walk assist - basically, small assistance when you have to hike-a-bike.

According to this article:
First Look: 2018 Specialized Turbo Levo FSR Carbon 6Fattie | Bicycling

"...the "walk assist" only works when there is no pressure on the pedals and can't be mistaken for any kind of throttle."

On other bikes with "walk assist" the bike moves along at roughly 3 mph, max.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

eFat

Which bike are you riding? 

I destroyed the derailleur and chain after the 1st 9 miles and went with the Sram EX-1.
The EX-1 has a 48t granny gear on the cassette and with a 14t up front makes the bike very ride able for my skills and trail system.
Sometimes I wish for even lower which is about as low as you can get without going the a Sram XO1 or Eagle 1x12 that has a 50t granny.
I feel the 1x12 would have a harder time holding up to electric assist than the 1x11 which seems to be failing on a regular basis.

The gearing as comes stock on the Levos is almost perfect and can be easily lowered even more with a front chain ring from 32 to 30 or possibly a 28t.

I would be curious to know what Bosch was thinking with their 2.5-1 internal reduction and the manufacturers using 18 and even 20t chain rings up front on mountain bikes?
Maybe they intended their bikes to be ridden by Olympic class riders or amateurs on less than mountain like terrain. 
Highroad 2


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

The walk assist on the Bosch/Haibike is too slow and a 2 button affair that is not worth using


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

AFAICT, this is the only thing that matters under CA law.

"(1) A "class 1 electric bicycle," or "low-speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle," is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance *only when the rider is pedaling*, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour."

I'm not arguing that people are going to use walk assist like you would with a thumb throttle, but it does do what a throttle does.


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## BootneyLee (Apr 25, 2017)

highroad 2 said:


> The walk assist on the Bosch/Haibike is too slow and a 2 button affair that is not worth using


Out of curiosity, how slow is walk assist on a Bosch/Haibike? Usually if a hill is too steep and/or loose to climb while riding any bike (for me), I'm usually hike-a-biking very slowly... Maybe 1 mph, max.


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## NIMROD23 (Jul 11, 2017)

I have the option of choosing last years model and saving 1500 off of a 6000 price tag but with all the updates on the new model coming out I couldn't do it lol


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

Harryman said:


> but it does do what a throttle does.


Yeah, sure, when you're not on the bike...


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

highroad 2 said:


> eFat
> Which bike are you riding?


I have a Felt Lebowske with a Performance motor, the one before the CX.

I thought to change for EX1 but for now still have 11sp 10-42. Ideally I would want 46 or 48 cassette and 28t in front. But this is not possible with Bosch.

My impression is that this motor was never developped for MTB and they have done with what they have. But it's still not ideal.



> The walk assist on the Bosch/Haibike is too slow and a 2 button affair that is not worth using


On mine I have to constantly press the Walk button but I thought that the newer models it's just one push to start it, another to stop (or brake)?


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

BootneyLee said:


> Out of curiosity, how slow is walk assist on a Bosch/Haibike?


Its relative to the gears so it can be really slow. To a point to be ineffective... It works better (i.e. more torque) with a high gear.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

NIMROD23 said:


> I have the option of choosing last years model and saving 1500 off of a 6000 price tag but with all the updates on the new model coming out I couldn't do it lol


there is no update on the bosch mtb motors... for sustained climbing they are still the most efficient by far, 10-20% better range than any of the motors with a regular chainring.


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## NIMROD23 (Jul 11, 2017)

I was reading about the new levo coming with 15% more power and better software, handlebar mounted control, 150mm sus, smoother delivery, can't wait to get my hands on one, not paying for the carbon version though


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

yeah but still no battery indicator up front, that is ridiculous for the prices they are charging )


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## NIMROD23 (Jul 11, 2017)

I think they're idea is theres less chance of stuff breaking in an off


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

eFat said:


> Yeah, sure, when you're not on the bike...


I'm just pointing out that the law doesn't care if you're on or off, or how fast it propels the bike. It seems unnecessary, I'm surprised they added it since some sharp lawyer could argue it makes it Class 2.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

syl3 said:


> there is no update on the bosch mtb motors... for sustained climbing they are still the most efficient by far, 10-20% better range than any of the motors with a regular chainring.


syl3
I find it interesting your info regarding the efficiency and range of the Bosch mtb motors being better than other motors with a regular sized chainring.
This Haibike is my first mtb, let alone assisted bike so I have nothing to compare its range with which has been disappointingly poor.
The Bosch website claims up to 90 kilometer and who knows under what trail conditions.
Before purchasing i read a report of one rider getting 60k and it was not all in Eco mode.
Forget an all day ride or even a half day ride.
In Tour mode is is good for 2 hours and 15 miles of continuous riding.
I am shopping for my next ride.


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