# How many of you bought a new bike without demo'ing others?



## Drew888 (Mar 22, 2011)

1st post in a long while and back after 20yrs away. Grew up in SF and biked across the bridge to Mt Tam. Also tore up GG park on a daily. 
Moved to SoCal and had a family and was distracted away from riding. 
Seems like a life time ago but I'm back and excited again.
So I desperately need to move away from my 24# K2 Razorback and step up to modern geo.
I still have a very busy life and squeezing in the rides when I can until things lighten up a bit. I just don't have the time to hit up demo days. 
What's the best way to choose on specs? I'm guessing the experienced riders know it can be done. I met a guy at my local shop that let me test his Salsa Deadwood and loved everything about it. I've used what I've learned from the Deadwood to come up with a short list.

So far I'm interested in the Norco FS1, Transition Smuggler, and Kona Process 153, maybe a YT Jeffsy, and still reading. 20 years off, OMG so much reading.

Drew


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Welcome back. I too am in the same boat and am looking at many bikes almost all of which I cannot do a demo. Exciting times and so many good choices.


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## leaguerider (Sep 6, 2010)

I love my intense tracer but to be honest there seem to be a lot of good bikes out there these days. 

Prob the most important is deciding what kind of riding you want to do. XC, Enduro, downhill. 
The wife and I are finding Endro style bikes are handling most of the big stuff just shy of the realy hard stuff at Northstar. They are a little bit slower for XC.

If I had more space I'd get
1. Jump bike
2. XC 100mm racer, possibly a hard tail
3. Keep my Intense Tracer

Carbon rims have eliminated the flex I used to feel in my aluminum rims
A 66deg head tube angle and 150mm travel alows us to handle 99% of Demo/UCSC/Tahoe/Downieville, 
Dropper posts have been a game changer for us as well.
Still nervous with the carbon frames but no problems so far.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Lots of good bikes out there.
Last year a riding buddy bought a YT Capra.
I bought a Guerrilla Gravity Smash.
Intended use for both bikes is within parameters.
His bottom bracket is crazy lower than mine.
Sometimes he gets frustrated having to clock his cranks to avoid pedal strikes.
My takeaway & advice: watch out for frames with BBs that are unreasonably low.
Sadly, it's a thing.
=sParty


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I've never demoed a bike.

I know what fits me, I know the characteristics of the various materials, and I also know if you buy from a decent maker with a good reputation, then you're rarely disappointed.

But the main reason is that I usually start with a frameset and build the bike from there, wheels and all, so I have picked every component.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

You have to do your own take on what's best or how much you want to stick your neck out as the individual case in point but here's my version below with some qualifications- Also, let me add I don't believe anyone would suggest you not test ride or demo if given the chance to do so.

Yes, demo'd because it was locally available and didn't go with one or two other considered brands for same reasoning, not available for local demo or service. 

Not sure I could confidently seal the deal without a ride but I might have. Reason being it was the only one of the three choices locally and the one I was leaning toward anyways. 
By that time, I'd read up on a lot of things, changes in the industry and designs to know what I was zeroing in on. For a more upright rider position, trail bike lines and bikepacker friendly, that market isn't terribly flooded so it wasn't a ton of homework.  

My last (that) bike purchase was in March 2017 and what I consider my 3rd bike over close to 30 years.
In that time, I've learned more about what terrain I like to ride and how much I attack it versus more carefree enjoyment. This round was more for comfort as I enter the late 50's age group and I could not be more pleased with the way these newer bikes do everything and make it feel easy. 
The ski industry did this more than few years ago as well if I correctly recall the type of wood we skied on in the early 1970's -- lol.


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## 2old (Aug 31, 2015)

Me....no demo on any bike.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Being 6'4" means I have NEVER been able to demo a bike. I do the research, narrow it down and find the best deal on line because I've always done my own wrenching. So many great choices out there...about a year ago I was looking at SC Bronson, Kona Process 153, Fezzari Alta, YT Jeffsey, and Canyon Spectral. I got lucky and found a killer deal on the Kona. It's been awesome but I'm sure any of the others would have been great too. Find the deal that's right for you and pull the trigger!


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

If you're in SoCal, there is an Ibis demo at Jenson USA today. You should go there NOW. Haha. But seriously if you can make it, a demo there is worth the time.


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

It is challenge to demo an XL. I recently demoed L and just put long stem on the front to compensate. It will suffice when no other option. Knew handling would improve on XL and did.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I don't put too much faith in demos. If my own bike, that I love was setup a bit differently, I would hate it. Face it, a demo bike will never have the suspension tuned properly for you, nor will the bars, stem, saddle, and controls be positioned perfectly. I do demo for fit if possible, but I am pretty good at estimating off of geometry charts. However, I've been mtbing over 30 years and know excactly what I want.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I have demoed tons of bikes at shop and manufacturer demo days because it is fun to try out different things, and also it saves miles on my own bikes. I have never paid to demo a bike, I have never demoed a bike I bought, and have never bought a bike I demoed. My demo period is the first several hundred trail miles that I own the bike. This gives me the chance to set it up the way I want it and ride it on my trails. I can usually get comfortable with most bikes after that amount of time, but if I don't like the bike by that point I sell it and move on. For this reason, I typically buy used bikes that I can flip for the same price or more than I paid if I don't like them. After 35+ years of riding mountain bikes, I am pretty comfortable choosing a bike.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Demos are good if you have the time and knowledge to tweak the bike when you go ride, but you’re kinda behind the curve so it’s gonna be hard for you to know what’s what when you do a demo.

If you can afford to buy a bike and gradually upgrade over time, then just pick a bike that fits your needs, buy it locally, have the shop set you up, then go ride. Learn that bike, do some reading, then upgrade if your first bike doesn’t do what you need it to do.

Option two is get a bike that has a love it or return it warranty like Fezzari.

Option three, buy a bike that is well loved. Based on your time away and style of past riding, I’d stay away from 29ers and go with a 27.5, big wheels take more effort and are not as playful as a smaller wheel. A nice bike for getting rowdy is the Transition Patrol. Get the base model, ridebthe hell out of it!

Option four, order a 2019 Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg, this bike is adjustable, well made, reasonable price, and you can change frame parts in order to swap wheels, or get a different shock and increase or decrease travel.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Travis Bickle said:


> I don't put too much faith in demos. If my own bike, that I love was setup a bit differently, I would hate it. Face it, a demo bike will never have the suspension tuned properly for you, nor will the bars, stem, saddle, and controls be positioned perfectly. I do demo for fit if possible, but I am pretty good at estimating off of geometry charts. However, I've been mtbing over 30 years and know excactly what I want.


Great description Travis and describes my situation precisely.

Best thing I did to launch my understanding of frame geo was have a custom frame built back in '94 -- the builder supported my desire to understand how HTA, STA, front center, chainstay length, mechanical trail, BB height, etc. work together to affect fit & handling. Then once it was built I got to ride the manifestation of our collaboration which further connected the dots.

Travis, I'm sure you feel as lucky as I do to have a general/substantial understanding of how a bike will handle before riding it. Folks like you & I are probably comfortable looking at geo charts and ordering a frame based on the numbers.

Sadly, many if not most riders aren't. Further complicating the matter is that mountain bike geo is a moving target. STAs, HTAs, front centers, stem length, etc. have changed a lot in just the past 5-6 years as the modern mountain bike continues to evolve.

Now add the fact that different riders appreciate diverse frame/handling attributes. Some prefer XC handling, some enduro, etc. While each MTB discipline has its place, they are disparate. It's hard to steer someone without intimately understanding their riding preferences and even then, I'd hesitate to accept the responsibility.

Handling is just one facet of choosing a frame. How about suspension preferences. Even among the most highly regarded brands (Yeti, Santa Cruz, Ibis, Pivot, etc.) there are hugely varying opinions about which performs best, how much travel, leverage rates, kinematics, coil vs. air, etc. In the end I suppose it comes down to personal preference but how can prospective buyers know in advance? Sadly demo bike suspensions are rarely set up correctly.

I've ridden lots of bikes but never demo'd any with intent to purchase. Whenever I want a new frame, I look at geo/suspension/frame material/brand reputation and a few other factors for what I want and then buy it, order it or have it built.

In the end, we each do our best to mitigate confusion as much as possible but all take a leap of faith to some degree.
=sParty


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

When I got my first mtb several years back I had no idea what I was looking for. I asked a few co-workers for tips. Friends provided good feedback on a few Craigslist ad's. At one point, the co-worker said "I'd see if you can ask him to hold it so you can look at it". I had no idea what a Specialized StumpJumper was at that time. Point being, if it was in good shape and the welds weren't cracked that it would probably be a great buy. Yep, sure was. I rode the snot out of that for years with only a spin through a K-Mart parking lot 70 miles from home.

In 2016 I rented a 2015 Specialized Evo. It was nice but noting jumped out at me, aside from I had a hell of a time with the 'raked out' front end. I didn't really care for it.
A month later I found a decent buy on a 2016 FSR. Met the guy, rode it on the dirt for about 8 minutes then exchanged cash for the bike and spent the next couple hours driving home.

December last year I rode a Chameleon through the parking lot and city streets for about 10 minutes. Then ordered one and am now riding it.

I'd say I didn't 'demo' a bike but rather rode it to make sure it didn't feel wrong. How right is it?...hard to say, but I wasn't left with an idea that it was crap for me.

In the end, each of my purchases worked well for me. By time I purchased the Chameleon I knew enough about bikes to know what I wanted from it. The first 2, not so much.

You, OP, sound like you know what you are after considering you are looking at high end bikes. I'm sure as long as the style of bike suits your riding style you should be okay. I know that's a broad statement. But if you can't/won't take part of a demo, all you can do is hope that your thoughts were correct.
Next best thing I can think of is at least rent a bike if/when you get a chance. Don't be afraid to venture away from home to find that rental.

In my opinion, for me, if I purchased a cross-country bike with steep head angle I'd be on the wrong bike. Otherwise, I think I can easily ride the bikes that have geometry numbers that make sense to my trail types, and my riding style.
My first Craigslist StumpJumper was used by me to hit the same trails I ride now. I loved it, but I love the modern bike even more and do not feel comfortable on that geometry now (without taking time to adapt).


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I think Drew changed his mind again.

He has posted twice on the forum, his first post was similar to this one, eight years ago, talking about his K2.... now eight years later he’s still thinking about getting back into mountain biking 🙄


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

I never bought a demo'ed bike.
Always knew exactly what I wanted.

My main MTB is custom made to my specs though....


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## Drew888 (Mar 22, 2011)

Hahahahaha, you aren't wrong. Years ago I wanted to get back into it and that obviously that didn't work out. Now the kids are out of the house and I know where/when I can sneak in rides.

Back then things had already changed a lot and I wanted to catch up on those changes and was a bit overwhelmed. From then to now, wow...night and day difference all over again. A big difference I'm noticing are more well educated riders today and tons more info online for me to reference.

Another thing I'm noticing now is that there are just so many really good bikes out there now that whatever I end up with will be such an improvement over what I've been riding that I'll love it and not really know if I should have chosen another until maybe after a year of riding.

I'm in IT and work with engineers all day so I tend to over research. I need to make the best choice I can today but if I replace it in a year, I'll live. I'd rather not of course.

First mistake I think I'm making is going straight to the $3k range that seems to be where 99% of the online reviews are focused. If I slow things down I think there is a more realistic option in the $2k-2.5k range like the Kone HEI HEI Tail, Stumpjumper ST Alloy, or Canyon Neuron al 7. The few reviews I'm finding seem to point out that these are a great place to start. Good at both up and downhill.

I really appreciate the advice! It may be simple and certainly if you are already familiar but if not, to some of us we're terrified of spending the $ to have gotten it all wrong. The good thing is the chance of that is so much less than it used to be.

Who knows, I may just drive over to Canyon this weekend.

Now it's probably best to shift gears and research geometry and forks/shocks.

Again, much appreciated!



Nurse Ben said:


> I think Drew changed his mind again.
> 
> He has posted twice on the forum, his first post was similar to this one, eight years ago, talking about his K2.... now eight years later he's still thinking about getting back into mountain biking 


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## 1x1_Speed_Craig (Jan 14, 2004)

I've never demo'd a bike, either. Research > Narrow Down > Buy (frameset) > Build


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## panchosdad (Sep 21, 2008)

Drew888 said:


> Hahahahaha, you aren't wrong. Years ago I wanted to get back into it and that obviously that didn't work out. Now the kids are out of the house and I know where/when I can sneak in rides.
> 
> Back then things had already changed a lot and I wanted to catch up on those changes and was a bit overwhelmed. From then to now, wow...night and day difference all over again. A big difference I'm noticing are more well educated riders today and tons more info online for me to reference.
> 
> ...


I'm just the opposite of many here, I've demoed the last couple of bikes I've bought. We're lucky enough to have a great local festival with tons of demos included, so if I'm in the market I'll go up and just ride bikes for a couple days. Riding them back to back is very instructive I've found. I'll do one short xc loop and then a lap off the lift. It helps to have a good idea of what you want ahead of time, and to know something about how you like bikes set up. Bring a shock pump. Have fun shopping!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Best bet: go to your LBS, get a bike that looks good and feels right. Ride it till your done with it or you decide to upgrade.

There are way too many choices now, research is pointless with experience riding.



Drew888 said:


> Hahahahaha, you aren't wrong. Years ago I wanted to get back into it and that obviously that didn't work out. Now the kids are out of the house and I know where/when I can sneak in rides.
> 
> Back then things had already changed a lot and I wanted to catch up on those changes and was a bit overwhelmed. From then to now, wow...night and day difference all over again. A big difference I'm noticing are more well educated riders today and tons more info online for me to reference.
> 
> ...


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

I stick to Giants because i get the "family" deal on them and feel a certain loyalty to the brand. If I demo it is between the model of bike.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

joeduda said:


> I stick to Giants because i get the "family" deal on them and feel a certain loyalty to the brand. If I demo it is between the model of bike.


Trance 29 Pro, gets good reviews.


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## Daydreamer (Aug 27, 2018)

My new Foes Trail Mixer frame and DVO Sapphire fork just arrived from California on Tuesday. Never see any of those in my area so no opportunity to demo one. 

The biggest thing I'm concerned about is having gotten the right size and that doesn't really concern me too much because I did my research and asked the questions.


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## escrowdog (Oct 26, 2018)

I bought a 2018 Jeffsy 27.5 AL last Sept...without a demo. Couldn't be more please with the bike! I am however a bit of a suspension tinker'er and have upgraded a number of components already. So I got mine for like $2200 shipped. My buddy bought a Gorilla Gravity Smash shortly after I bought mine, he had been riding an old hard tail for more than a year, researched the **** out of it and got a KICK ASS bike with all the sweet spot components for like $5800...an unthinkable price for my first new mtn bike in like 10 years. Since then I've purchased the same fork in coil form, same shock, same dropper post, same tires, etc, etc. to improve my bike. I did buy all my upgrades lightly used and hunted for deals, so I'm still in mine way below what he paid, but he has better drive train, i9 wheels and more that still trump my bike. Moral of the story is, if you KNOW you're going to be prone to upgrades, then maybe look to a custom builder so you can get the right stuff from the get go. The Jeffsy stock is a good bike (and will probably blow your mind compared to what you're used to), but with an MRP ribbon coil in front and super deluxe rear shock, better tires, getting rid of the ridiculous seat they ship it with, getting bars I like, bike yoke dropper etc. etc. it's a GREAT bike.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

The last bike I demo'd /test rode was an early Jekyll almost 20 years ago, I liked it for a while, but ended up not liking it as much after a couple of years. All of my current bikes I bought without demo or test ride; cx bike, road, 2 xc race bikes, - very happy with them all; my hardtail (Raleigh Talus carbon pro) feels kind of weird, but it goes really fast on race day so I can't complain. I ordered my fs xc bike without ever having seen one in real life, and it was a bit expensive being carbon with full xtr build, but I'm super happy with that one.

Something fairly modern that doesn't get more bad reviews than good would probably be safe. Like someone else said, make sure you know your size and that the bike will fit the style of riding you'll be doing. it would be tough if you're kind of in between sizes (I'm certainly XL at 6'2+ and 36" actual inseam, so it's easy for me), then you'd have to find a tweener size brand rather than going a little big or small.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> Trance 29 Pro, gets good reviews.


I've got a Anthem 29 pro 1, didn't see the need to step up in my Mid Michigan terrain. My Nephew in Law (nieces husband) who owns the shop rides a Reign but they are in Marquette.


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## Drew888 (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks for all the input! I know there are a lot of bikes out there to choose from but based on a reality check (choosing to spend a less than $3k, close to $2200 is better) I am down to these guys so far. Any last comments on the below? 

Commencal Meta TR 29
Fezzari Abajo Peak 29
YT Jeffsy AL 29
Marin Rift Zone 3


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I ride a Fezzari, they build a good bike, certainly fair pricing, great warranty, nice folks.


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

Me. Late 2016 I picked up a Knolly Endorphin without ever having demo'd one. Was riding a 2010 Intense Tracer at the time (also bought without demo'ing). Decided on it based on the geometry numbers, reviews, videos, and the fact it's a small brand. Couldn't be happier with it. Since getting this bike I have demo'd several other bikes, including Pivot Switchblade, and Mach 429 TR, Ibis Ripmo, etc and still love my Knolly.


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## cowdog (Apr 14, 2004)

I used to love to build up my bikes and have the ability to move parts across frames. In that progression I became enamored with 29ers and built up a Titus RacerX 29er frame. And then I entered one of those work/life decades where other priorities took over. I made a commitment to get back into riding this year and started looking at bikes. I did some parking lot, around the block, and townie trail demos on several bikes. I realized so much had changed in terms of geometry and components that I just needed to pick a bike that felt good in the saddle and then learn and adapt. I liked just about every bike I rode (Trail 429, SB130, Hightower, Trance 29) and had a bit of an infatuation with the Ibis ripmo. I also looked closely at GG, spot, and Fezzari as possible options. When I caught wind of the new Ripley, I lined up an option to buy one on release day. No demo, I bought the bike and couldn’t be happier. I switched out the group and wheels — as much learning as thinking I am improving — and have started an exploration of tires. I am also following some youtube channels and working on core skills. For example, I never learned to manual. Here we go. I am additionally starting to build a riding network. One buddy works in the cycling industry, and we will definitely ride. Another has been away from riding too, and I am working him hard. He’s probably weeks away from buying a new bike. Good times with a grey hair crowd.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Last 3 bikes each bought through Internet, no demo of them nor did i demo other bikes

2012 CB Yelli Screamy Greatest fitting bike I have owned (now my son’s bike)

2014 Santa Cruz Heckler (Replaced a 2004 Enduro whose frame I broke)

2016 Knolly Endorphin (Replaced 2014 Heckler, whose frame I broke). SC gave me a TB on warranty that i built for my wife

From your posts, I think if you go the research/review route that you may not get around to it until 2030. Another option is get $800 in your pocket and drive around to some Craigslist sellers over a few days. SoCal usually has a deep/quality used market.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## S​​usspect (May 12, 2017)

OP must have bought a bike by now, right?

But I'll chip in by saying I've never bought a bike I've demoed. I did ride a Bronson at a demo day a while ago, and a Process 153 recently. Not because I wanted to buy one, just wanted to ride it for an hour.

I've bought new and used off the internet/Ebay... all good experiences so far. Read a few reviews of guys my size, found a deal and pulled the trigger. Found a used Trek Stache, Kona Hei Hei Trail, Specialized Fuse (broke even on all of them when I sold them locally). Still have the only new bike I bought (Banshee Phantom) and a Norco Torrent I picked up on Craigslist. Honestly bikes are so good these days, it seems hard to go wrong if you know what you want (geometry, hardtail vs suspended, wheels/tires) and get the right frame size. I've definitely enjoyed the better forks my newer bikes have come with.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

My last was a custom frame, so no demo, but it fit and rode superbly. I know what I like/want at this point so why compromise. Knowing what you want is a large part of the equation, and that takes some experience. Factory bikes involve a lot of compromises, so buy a frame and build it with parts that are appropriate for you, and what you will do with it, for best value. You can move your custom wheels and personal gruppo/parts selection to another frame too, which makes frame updates more affordable.


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