# Ti Bolts: Where to and where not to use them?



## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Trying to shave a few grams off and add a little "bling". I assume that using them on brake levers, shifters and water bottle cages is safe but how about these things?:

*Seatpost clamps bolts: safe?
*Derailleur cable clamp bolts: safe?
*Stem mount bolts: safe?

Please post your opinions, thanks!


----------



## Trevorken (Jul 2, 2007)

Ti? I would say everywhere.


----------



## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Use Aluminum bolts on the cages,


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Avoid cheap Ebay ti bolts like the plague!

Other than that, everywhere but use a torque wrench.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Second that*



Trevorken said:


> Ti? I would say everywhere.


If manufacturers use them on stem bolts, it's safe to assume you can use them anywhere.

You can save even more weight (and money) with alu.

Use aluminum bolts on lever clamps, derailleur clamps, derailleur cable pinch bolts (with a dab of blue loctite around the cable, and not on brake cable pinch bolts) bottle cage bolts... pretty much anywhere that is not heavy weight load bearing kinda stuff.


----------



## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

Fix the Spade said:


> Avoid cheap Ebay ti bolts like the plague!
> 
> Other than that, everywhere but use a torque wrench.


Really? I weigh 215 and have used ti bolts literally everywhere since 1996. Over the years they have shifted from the fancy US made stuff to china ti bolts. I see no difference in quality. I have never broken a titanium bolt in any application from any manufacturer. I use them on brakes, stems, suspension pivots...

I ride 2-3 days a week and beat the crap out of everything I ride. I think the "stay away from china bolts" thing is silly... I bet the fancy bolts you think are better are also made in china.


----------



## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

Trevorken said:


> Ti? I would say everywhere.


Apart these places you use alu bolts 

Ti only for stem and seatpost and if you have fs for pivots, rest alu.


----------



## Eville140 (Nov 26, 2010)

1415chris said:


> Apart these places you use alu bolts
> 
> Ti only for stem and seatpost and if you have fs for pivots, rest alu.


Ti for rotor bolts, caliper bolts


----------



## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

Even for these applications alu bolts work fine, for me.


----------



## Trevorken (Jul 2, 2007)

1415chris said:


> Apart these places you use alu bolts
> 
> Ti only for stem and seatpost and if you have fs for pivots, rest alu.


The original question was differently.
But I agree to the usage of alu, except I would use ti for the brake callipers and rotorbolts. ;-)


----------



## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Stupid questions:

The stock bolts on components are not aluminum? They are stainless steel or something else?

Am I understanding that you guys are saying that aluminum bolts are lighter than titanium bolts? Are they more durable (handle higher torque loads)?


----------



## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

Edit- Deleted double post due to lag


----------



## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

Hey guys- I was about to post a thread with almost the same question. I'm sure the OP will eventually have similar questions, so I don't feel like I'm thread-jacking too bad.

Most stock bolts are steel. Ti will be at least as strong as steel but 1/2 the weight. Aluminum will be much weaker (maybe 1/2-1/3 as strong), but also 1/3 the weight. That makes it suitable for low-load apps like bottle mounts and shift-lever clamps. Be aware though that Shimano levers usually require a smaller bolt head diameter. I couldn't find it at Toronto in aluminum, but they have it in Ti.

I've been pricing stuff out and found Toronto Cycles has an equal or better deal on just about everything but the rotor bolts. J&L on ebay seems to be the best deal for those...

http://cgi.ebay.com/J-L-Ti-Titanium...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item415871b642

My question though is this: How do I get the damn washers off of my old bolts? They seem stuck on there good. Should I bother ordering Ti washers, or will the local Ace Hardware have everything I need in steel for cheap?

2nd question: I have a 180mm front rotor. The bolts are exactly 1.5" long- 38.3 mm However, I can only find bolts in 35mm or 40mm. 35 mm might not be deep enough, and 40 would require a ton of washers. Ideas?

3rd question: for the steerer clamp bolts, mine seem to be M6x18mm, but the head is rounded, rather than tapered or non-tapered. They also stick out a couple of threads, so I'd like some 17.5's or 17's. I want to stick with rounded heads as it seems better if I smack my knee into them. Any idea where I can find something like this.


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

ambassadorhawg said:


> Am I understanding that you guys are saying that aluminum bolts are lighter than titanium bolts? Are they more durable (handle higher torque loads)?


Stock bolts tend to be steel.

Alloy bolts are a lot LESS durable than steel and ti bolts, much easier to strip and more prone to snapping during crashes. Avoid alu bolts anywhere that sees heavy loads (like stem bolts), although some companies do make parts with Alloy hardware, they tend to have XC only stamped firmly on the box.


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

ambassadorhawg said:


> Stupid questions:
> 
> The stock bolts on components are not aluminum? They are stainless steel or something else?
> 
> Am I understanding that you guys are saying that aluminum bolts are lighter than titanium bolts? Are they more durable (handle higher torque loads)?


Aluminum is lighter but less durable than titanium.


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

1415chris said:


> Even for these applications alu bolts work fine, for me.


A good rule of thumb is to not use alu bolts in places where they are subjected to "shear" type forces - eg. rotor bolts and ISO frame to post mount adapter bolts.

A similar rule of thumb is to not use weaker bolts (alu, cf, nylon) anywhere where a failure will result in serious injury. A bottle cage falling off, a shifter rotating etc. are all no big deal. A brake rotor or caliper shearing off when you need it most (and it will be when you need it most) could be a life changing event.

Also, the weight saved is very minimal. Maybe 10g max.

If in doubt, stick with ti, but remember, even the highest quality ti bolts are no substitute for high tensile steel bolts with ratings above 8.8 (eg. 10.9 or 12.9). Do not replace any bolts that have 10.9 or 12.9 stamped on their heads with ti.

I did a little article on bolt tuning a while ago that some may find interesting.


----------



## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

*Last Question:*

Did I read somewhere that I should use Loctite or something like that on titanium bolts? How about aluminum bolts?

What do you recommend?

Thanks again!!!


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ambassadorhawg said:


> Did I read somewhere that I should use Loctite or something like that on titanium bolts? How about aluminum bolts?
> 
> What do you recommend?
> 
> Thanks again!!!


You can use Ti-prep anit seize. Actually I just use a little grease and Iv'e never had a problem.


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

For alu and scandium bolts (as well as bottom brackets) I use Loctite Zinc Anti-Seize - its good to prevent galling and corrosion between alu surfaces that will mean you can never get them back appart. It also acts as an assembly lubricant, without which you can never get a proper torque reading when doing up alu or scandium bolts.

You can use the stuff with ti bolts as well. People will also talk about "Ti Prep" which is a copper based anti-seize (probably similar if not identical to Loctite C5-A Copper based anti-seize).

Anti-seize will enable you to pull things appart again, but for applications where you don't want them coming unintentionally loose - like rotor bolts or caliper mounting bolts, then some sort of anaerobic threadlocker is the go. If you're only going to buy one type of Loctite (and its expensive stuff) then Loctite 242 (blue coloured liquid) is the one to get. Its strong but still allows disassembly with normal hand tools.


----------



## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

TigWorld said:


> For alu and scandium bolts (as well as bottom brackets) I use Loctite Zinc Anti-Seize - its good to prevent galling and corrosion between alu surfaces that will mean you can never get them back appart. It also acts as an assembly lubricant, without which you can never get a proper torque reading when doing up alu or scandium bolts.
> 
> You can use the stuff with ti bolts as well. People will also talk about "Ti Prep" which is a copper based anti-seize (probably similar if not identical to Loctite C5-A Copper based anti-seize).
> 
> Anti-seize will enable you to pull things appart again, but for applications where you don't want them coming unintentionally loose - like rotor bolts or caliper mounting bolts, then some sort of anaerobic threadlocker is the go. If you're only going to buy one type of Loctite (and its expensive stuff) then Loctite 242 (blue coloured liquid) is the one to get. Its strong but still allows disassembly with normal hand tools.


Thanks! Is Loctite 242 a bicycle specific product or will I find it at my local home improvement center???


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

You should be able to find the stuff pretty much anywhere. If the home hardware places don't have it then try a bearing centre or similar. The smallest bottle will cost about $20 but you only use a drop at a time so it goes a long way and keeps for a long time.


----------



## yellowbook (Aug 21, 2005)

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/articles.php?ID=16

Very old, but still up to date other than discs.

Long story short, Ti u can use everywhere. 
No Al bolts on stem, seat collar, pedal axles!!!
You can do it, but your life is in danger if you do.

Some ride their discs with 3 AL and 3 Ti bolts.


----------



## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

I know somebody who had a stem Ti bolt break.


----------



## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

No way!


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Way dude! Check this out: I know a guy who had a steel bolt break!


----------



## ds33gt (Nov 14, 2010)

From the link above max saving would be about 150 grams, but prolly closer to 100 because you won't do all of them...


----------



## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

beanbag said:


> I know somebody who had a stem Ti bolt break.


For instance: I knew somebody who died in plane crash, would it stop me from flying?


----------



## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

The strongest steel is stronger than the strongest titanium. But we would never know the quality of the steel or ti bolts used for bike applications. But I ride XC so it shouldn't matter...


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

The best Ti bolts (metal composition ie. alloy and method of manufacture - rolled threads and formed without stress risers) are almost the equivalent to a steel hi-tensile 8.8 grade bolt. That's why they can be used as replacements for some suspension pivots (but some bikes are specced with 10.9 grade bolts).


----------



## leehine (Apr 28, 2010)

i purchased some ti bolts from tibike and i have to say they are very helpfull and the bolts were second to none


----------



## goodchat (May 29, 2015)

In a nut&boltshell, given resources are inevitably limited for some & many bolts are so trifling, i imagine simple general rule is: where best can i get a dual benefit of strength and meaningful weight saving for the trouble and cost.

As some have said, many bolts are so trifling that aluminium will do, so stress isn't an issue obviously.

if one must choose, it seems sensible to add a bias for bolts which add weight high on the bike where one least wants it. So steering head & handle bar bolts, seat post ...

As others may have said, I would consider the humble carrier rack as a candidate.


----------



## goodchat (May 29, 2015)

For e-bikers, heat dissipation can be a big issue.

In summer here, i have to do a regular hill in 2 goes to let it cool a bit. It sagely has a heat cutout.

Bolt material conductivity may be relevant to transferring heat best from the motor & battery to the frame (a wonderful heatsink).


----------



## jennydever1 (Feb 20, 2016)

I like to change the bolts of my 29er because I want to use it for touring next summer.
My opinion : i can change everything to titanium.

and I can change the bolts that would not make me lose control if they brake to aluminum?

what's a good place to buy the bolts if i am looking fo strong quality?

ebay has got some titanium bolts ( ebay but they are made in china, any good?

i also found Biketweaks.com , they also got aluminum bolts.


----------



## jennydever1 (Feb 20, 2016)

I found them at Biketweaks.com they come anodised.

Looking great on my bike. What places are safe to use aluminium bolts?


----------



## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

goodchat said:


> For e-bikers, heat dissipation can be a big issue.
> 
> In summer here, i have to do a regular hill in 2 goes to let it cool a bit. It sagely has a heat cutout.
> 
> Bolt material conductivity may be relevant to transferring heat best from the motor & battery to the frame (a wonderful heatsink).


so your e bike will take you longer to get up the hill than if you just pedal because you have to stop and let it cool down? that is classic


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Not sure what kind of Ebike you are riding but mine rarely needs to be cooled . I can do over 20mph up a steep hill but I put the power setting on medium . At the top I flick the switch and shoot off .


----------

