# Supplements, knees/joints



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi, i am 64, an outdoor guy, in regular cycling the last 7 years.
I am tall, thin and healthy. Most days i ride 2.25H in the morning and 1.25H in the afternoon.
Last april the trails were wet so i played tennis and hurt a knee. About 6-8 months later it 
was about fine. I kept riding but easy soft stuff and limited time. Now i have been enjoying
more action, single trakcs nothing expert but having fun on intermediates.
Pain in a knee or the other is frequent.
Have you found a supplement that might help me?
I know it might takes months but i am open to suggestion.
Thanks and happy rides


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## julianw (Sep 23, 2021)

get a foam roller and roll all sides of your thighs to massage the muscles around your IT band and knee joint to keep them from getting tight. also make sure your calf muscles are not tight. check your seat height and forward/aft position.


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## ElTortoise (Jul 27, 2015)

I had the same problem and taking Glucosamine/Chondroitin really helped. It's over the counter and you can get it in just about any drug or health food store. Costco has probably the best deal on it. It takes a little time to notice the difference and be sure to take the recommended dosage.


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## ElTortoise (Jul 27, 2015)

ElTortoise said:


> I had the same problem and taking Glucosamine/Chondroitin really helped. It's over the counter and you can get it in just about any drug or health food store. Costco has probably the best deal on it. It takes a little time to notice the difference and be sure to take the recommended dosage.


Oops, hit the Post button too soon. It would also be a good idea to talk to your doctor about it.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Agree w/ ElTortoise on both accounts. Glucosamine/Chondroitin has helped me at times and the doc has helped me when necessary (PRP once, and surgery a couple times)...supplements can only do so much.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Supplements that reduce inflation significantly? NSAIDs, cortisone shots...THOSE will reduce inflammation and therefore pain. If the situation is such that the occasional use of NSAID doesn't control it acceptably, then you have a defect and either need to back off to where it is controllable, or get it fixed, but depending on the damage, you can't get back to "100%" in many of these cases, I know I can't. If you are riding twice a day, every day, you are NOT allowing your body to recover, it stays in a constant state of damage. You need sports/activities that work different muscle groups and areas that you can do on other days to allow your riding muscles and joints to recover some.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Both NSAIDs and curcumin have a similar effect on inflammation. One causes heart attacks and strokes the other does not. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> Both NSAIDs and curcumin have a similar effect on inflammation. One causes heart attacks and strokes the other does not.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


Efficacy studies? or is this a conspiracy?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Glucosamine/Chondroitin works. Also agree that you need to find another sport to alternate with cycling...you are suffering from an overuse injury riding 2 times per day. You're not 27 anymore.


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## nOOky (May 13, 2008)

Do you like running? I started running again 10 years ago because of it's benefits of helping with bone density in my legs etc. it really helps to have something complimentary to cycling. I take glucosamine/chondroitin also. It doesn't seem like it does anything until I stop taking it, then the joints start to let me know.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

The problem could potentially be due to many different things but most inflammation issues are caused by diet and can also be solved by your diet.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

WHALENARD said:


> Both NSAIDs and curcumin have a similar effect on inflammation. One causes heart attacks and strokes the other does not.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


I take a transdermal Curcumin/ Resveratrol ( more gets in the blood stream)and Cissus capsules.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Jayem said:


> Efficacy studies? or is this a conspiracy?


I pulled both of those from the Mayo clinic








Can ibuprofen increase your risk of heart attack?


Common pain medications such as ibuprofen or naproxen sodium may increase your risk of heart attack and stroke.




www.mayoclinic.org













Mayo Clinic Minute: Are there health benefits to taking turmeric? - Mayo Clinic News Network


Can an ancient yellow root spice be good for you? A recent study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences shows curcumin, an active ingredient in turmeric, effectively kills certain cancer cells. While research continues on the role turmeric plays in treating cancer...




newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org






But of course there are more comprehensive studies, lots of them.








Risk of acute myocardial infarction with NSAIDs in real world use: bayesian meta-analysis of individual patient data


Objective To characterise the determinants, time course, and risks of acute myocardial infarction associated with use of oral non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). Design Systematic review followed by a one stage bayesian individual patient data meta-analysis. Data sources Studies...




www.bmj.com





Regarding curcumin the literature is vast, I'd guess into the thousands of studies. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> I pulled both of those from the Mayo clinic
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> "Turmeric has natural anti-inflammatory compounds called curcuminoids, and these curcuminoids have been associated with a positive effect on various diseases," says Anya Guy, a Mayo Clinic dietitian. Those diseases include Type 2 diabetes, obesity, inflammatory bowel disease and cancer.


We aren't talking about those diseases and nothing in that article pointed to the efficacy as an anti-inflammatory treatment for soft-tissue/joints. Did you read the article?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Jayem said:


> Did you read the article?


Yes?
The other article I posted on curriculum breaks down the individual mechanisms and pathways as it behaves as an anti-inflammatory and is cited seven times on just that not including arthritis etc. Again, the scientific literature on curcumin is vast. 

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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> Yes?
> The other article I posted on curriculum breaks down the individual mechanisms and pathways as it behaves as an anti-inflammatory and is cited seven times on just that not including arthritis etc. Again, the scientific literature on curcumin is vast.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


Sorry, not seeing it, I didn't see curcumin or turmeric in those articles at all. The one article that mentions it does not point to it's efficacy as such. I've eaten a lot of food that is listed as having "anti inflammatory properties". I can't say it's ever brought swelling down like an NSAID and I don't see any efficacy reports indicating that it does.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

What is causing the knee pain? Have you had any tests to diagnose?

Knee pain could be caused by a number of sources and treatment / relief is different for everyone


I have a Baker's cyst caused from a twist and tear several years ago. Although it flares up, I can still ride, run and do crossfit but some days are tougher and I do modify or decrease intensity due to stiffness, pain etc. But at least I know what I'm dealing with.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Jayem said:


> Efficacy studies? or is this a conspiracy?


It is well known that NSAIDs cause upper GI bleeds and heart problems. North of 10% of all hospitalizations are due to side effects of NSAIDS.








NSAIDs and Side Effects: Common & Urgent


NSAIDs may be the most commonly used medications around, but like any medication, they have side effects. Here's why NSAIDs can cause stomach upset and more. Plus, what to know about long-term use.




www.healthline.com




"In July 2015, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)Trusted Source strengthened its warning for all NSAIDs except aspirin about the increased risk of heart attack and stroke
NSAIDs cause an estimated 41,000 hospitalizations and 3,300 deathsTrusted Source each year among older adults."


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## MaX-D (May 13, 2020)

I had knee pain for years. I found out through Squat University that my knee pain was caused by my hips being too tight. I started doing stretching and mobility exercises to loosen up my hips and my knee pain went away. 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mike_kelly said:


> It is well known that NSAIDs cause upper GI bleeds and heart problems. North of 10% of all hospitalizations are due to side effects of NSAIDS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why it sounds like I'm pushing someone to take NSAIDs...I'm just saying that taking some organic butt cheese isn't a viable solution when it has no efficacy. There's a lot of hard work done by medical researchers, scientists and doctors to get to the point where a treatment is effective. If it were as easy as taking organic butt cheese, we would all be doing it. The OP really needs to consider their pain management, taking time off for recuperation, getting the underlying problem looked at, multiple opinions, etc.


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## JCKID58 (Nov 20, 2017)

I've been using this for about 6 months now. I'm always skeptical about a lot of supplements out there. This has been a real eye opener for me. It has worked wonders for my joint and knee pain, again for me. It took a couple weeks and I just noticed I wasn't hurting like usual. For me it is a really good product.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

My joints also kinda suck and I wish I could take something besides pain relievers. 

Beyond detailing placebo effects, I haven't read a single peer-reviewed study that corroborates any claimed benefits to any supplements (other than the illegal sh!t used by TDF riders).

But I've asked every medical professional I know about useful supplements and they're all unanimous: supplements are great for making expensive pee pee and nothing else.

...oh well, back to the Costco sized Aleve.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

D. Inoobinati said:


> My joints also kinda suck and I wish I could take something besides pain relievers.



Curious if you've tried any dietary changes? Depending on your current situation you may have to get a bit radical to notice any improvement.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

cyclelicious said:


> What is causing the knee pain? Have you had any tests to diagnose?
> 
> Knee pain could be caused by a number of sources and treatment / relief is different for everyone
> 
> ...



Yes, it's possible that the op's problem is something as simple as a saddle adjustment. Impossible for us to know but I mentioned diet only because it seems to be such a prevalent cause of inflammation and joint pain.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Glucosamine/Chondroitin works.


So do placebos. Effects of glucosamine, chondroitin, or placebo in patients with osteoarthritis of hip or knee: network meta-analysis - Database of Abstracts of Reviews of Effects (DARE): Quality-assessed Reviews - NCBI Bookshelf I wish it did but no doctor worth his weight will agree that it actually does anything real.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

J.B. Weld said:


> Curious if you've tried any dietary changes? Depending on your current situation you may have to get a bit radical to notice any improvement.


Of course. But my diet doesn't exactly suck, and radical changes, though easy, didn't change anything, other than wishing the end would come sooner. Who wants to forego a nightly IPA or glass of wine for an imagined benefit.

The flip side is that "pain" isn't always a reliable indicator of something being mechanically wrong. I've since learned that neural systems do funny things with age and that "pain" signals can be misbehaving nerves. Of course, this depends on being certain that nothing is wrong: ever see Ray Romano's stand-up routine about how hard getting old is? Where he mentions how "sleeping is hard when you get older, the other morning I woke up with a sprained ankle".


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## phorest (Jul 29, 2009)

JCKID58 said:


> I've been using this for about 6 months now. I'm always skeptical about a lot of supplements out there. This has been a real eye-opener for me. It has worked wonders for my joint and knee pain, again for me. It took a couple weeks and I just noticed I wasn't hurting like usual. For me it is a really good product.


Off topic, but those photo auto-captions sure are funny, this one has "Hair Liquid Human body Paint Fluid".


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Jayem said:


> I'm not sure why it sounds like I'm pushing someone to take NSAIDs...I'm just saying that taking some organic butt cheese isn't a viable solution when it has no efficacy. There's a lot of hard work done by medical researchers, scientists and doctors to get to the point where a treatment is effective. If it were as easy as taking organic butt cheese, we would all be doing it. The OP really needs to consider their pain management, taking time off for recuperation, getting the underlying problem looked at, multiple opinions, etc.


"The OP really needs to consider their pain management, taking time off for recuperation, getting the underlying problem looked at, multiple opinions, etc." and the side effects which may be worse than the cure. I use Tumeric for chronic pain because it is safer.


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## Dorp to falt (Nov 20, 2021)

mike_kelly said:


> It is well known that NSAIDs cause upper GI bleeds and heart problems. North of 10% of all hospitalizations are due to side effects of NSAIDS.


Maybe I'm high on acetaminophen. Or possibly bath salts? But if NSAIDs caused more than 10% of hospitalizations they would have been banned years ago.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mike_kelly said:


> It is well known that NSAIDs cause upper GI bleeds and heart problems. North of 10% of all hospitalizations are due to side effects of NSAIDS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jesus christ, for the last time, I'm not recommending NSAIDs, I'm speaking to their ability to reduce inflammation compared to something else. You seem to be hung on whether there are side effects...no ****, everything has side effects if you use it enough or out of context.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Of course. But my diet doesn't exactly suck, and radical changes, though easy, didn't change anything, other than wishing the end would come sooner. Who wants to forego a nightly IPA or glass of wine for an imagined benefit.





Yeah I'm not quite willing to give up my nightly ipa yet either which is why I only blame myself when I get occasional inflammation pains. It's a trade-off I'm willing to deal with for now.

Of course it's more than just the IPAs, I have several other food vices as well I haven't been able to let go. There are so many dietary contributers to inflammation that think very few people change their eating habits enough to experience positive gains.

It seems most accredited doctors say a very high percentage (90%?) of patients they see for joint pain & inflammation is because of what they are eating so I don't think the benefits are imagined


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Jayem said:


> Jesus christ, for the last time, I'm not recommending NSAIDs, I'm speaking to their ability to reduce inflammation compared to something else. You seem to be hung on whether there are side effects...no ****, everything has side effects if you use it enough or out of context.


I've been using Curcumin,Resveratrol transdermal (taken orally its rare to get enough in the blood stream most studies were done on injectable)and Cissus since my lyme disease it works pretty well. I still take ibuprofen on bad days. You shouldn't take it more than a week routinely, no reason not to take it.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Yeah I'm not quite willing to give up my nightly ipa yet either which is why I only blame myself when I get occasional inflammation pains. It's a trade-off I'm willing to deal with for now.
> 
> Of course it's more than just the IPAs, I have several other food vices as well I haven't been able to let go. There are so many dietary contributers to inflammation that think very few people change their eating habits enough to experience positive gains.
> 
> It seems most accredited doctors say a very high percentage (90%?) of patients they see for joint pain & inflammation is because of what they are eating so I don't think the benefits are imagined


My meat is grass feed free roaming. Not a lot of nightshade veggies and low to no carbs...so I can enjoy myself a beer or 2. More when things get social and pizza every once in a while make life enjoyable.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

33red said:


> Last april the trails were wet so i played tennis and hurt a knee. About 6-8 months later it
> was about fine. I kept riding but easy soft stuff and limited time.
> 
> Have you found a supplement that might help me?


As others pointed out, some degree of rest/recovery is probably in order. Not sure about the nature of your injury but speaking of my own - I never had an orthopedist recommend me stopping entirely. They tend to like to keep that gentle, lubricating cycling motion happening - just with some sense of the effort and keeping it sane.

But you asked specifically about supplements. I didn't see it mentioned here but maybe it's worth investigating Collagen(II). My elderly dog was prescribed this (along with traditional medicine). My gf experiments with it as well. Does it work? Who knows? I'm leery of many supplement claims but, at least in elderly dog joints, there appears to be studies. Woof.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Cerberus75 said:


> My meat is grass feed free roaming. Not a lot of nightshade veggies and low to no carbs...so I can enjoy myself a beer or 2. More when things get social and pizza every once in a while make life enjoyable.


What's wrong with nightshade veggies?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> What's wrong with nightshade veggies?


They can cause joint pain and inflation. Some people more than others.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Well i am trying many suggestions. My saddle height was determined by a pro 6 years ago so it is fine.
I pushed my saddle a bit forward that might help (this bike is almost new).
I started taking glucosamine, adding massage to my daily routine. I will do a little more yoga and stretching.
I will try to tweak my diet. I do not push all out, i know i have not been 27 for some time.
I think about 3.5 Hrs is not too much. Thanks for your input.


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## acudoc (May 3, 2010)

33red said:


> Hi, i am 64, an outdoor guy, in regular cycling the last 7 years.
> I am tall, thin and healthy. Most days i ride 2.25H in the morning and 1.25H in the afternoon.
> Last april the trails were wet so i played tennis and hurt a knee. About 6-8 months later it
> was about fine. I kept riding but easy soft stuff and limited time. Now i have been enjoying
> ...


I've been an acupuncturist for 20 years and treat lots of athletes and weekend warriors. The first thing you should do is get evaluated by a PT, sports MD or acupuncturist with training in orthopedics. Most chronic cases of knee pain come from a muscle imbalance around the knee. Certain muscles may be to tight and or weak leading to increased pressure on the knee cap and underlying structures. Like others have suggested your hips could be the problem. You'll get much quicker results by getting therapy vs taking supplements. I take 1000mg curcumin oil blend before workouts and have less pain and soreness after. I also take glucosamine/ chondroitin. At 51 the biggest thing the helps me stay pain free is taking rest days and stretching esp quads and hips. I alternate high intensity, short duration rides outside and interval training or weights in the gym 3-4x week. If I do a hard workout then I take the next day off. My knees are happy!


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I worked in the orthopedic operating room for a long time providing components and overseeing replacement surgeries. I never wanted to be my own patient in that regard and have sworn by yoga.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Hard to say what supplements (if any) might help without knowing what is actually wrong.

For example -- someone who has a vitamin D deficiency that is contributing to joint pain, might benefit from a D supplement. A physician may prescribe vitamin D to patients with blood test results that show vitamin D deficiency. Anyone else that doesn't have that problem would just be paying a lot to pee sunshine.

You mention one knee being injured, but then mention that both knees sometimes bother you. That makes me wonder if the injury may be unrelated to the underlying pain. If the pain is osteoarthritis related, oral hyaluronic acid can help with specific synovial issues. But only if that's what is causing the pain. Otherwise it is just expensive dust to choke down your throat.

Upside is that HA has been double-blind tested for efficacy in an oral form, and it is an actual recognized medication used by doctors when injected into joints. But the key to these clinical studies is that the patients have already been diagnosed to have osteoarthritis by a doctor in the first place. 

Oral hyaluronan relieves knee pain: a review

Bottom line is that the cause of the pain really needs to be diagnosed to really know if there is a supplement that might help.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

The OP is 65. It may be that it's past the point of return for supplements or vitamin I. Maybe I missed it in here but get an Xray to determine how much spacing there is in the joint. If recommended get an MRI but it's quite likely that even if structurally sound with an intact ACL/PCL that there is no cartilage left from a life well-lived. The pain is simply osteoarthritis. 

The end game is joint replacement and that comes down to a quality of life decision. Is the pain enough that it is preventing you from doing the things you want to do? I got a TKR at age 57 and it was a game-changer.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

rockman said:


> The end game is joint replacement and that comes down to a quality of life decision. Is the pain enough that it is preventing you from doing the things you want to do? I got a TKR at age 57 and it was a game-changer.


In a good way, I hope! I'm on that path. At 51 with multiple knee surgeries, I see a knee replacement at some point in my future. The last trip to the surgeon showed cartilage issues in the knee, but no arthritis. PRP gave me temporary relief, but I keep living (riding, skiing, hiking) and therefore damaging my knees.


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## zooman (Jan 10, 2022)

Jayem said:


> Efficacy studies? or is this a conspiracy?


Here is a 10 year old study: Efficacy and safety of Curcuma domestica extracts in patients with knee osteoarthritis - PubMed regarding circumin extracts. As many others have offered their input seems like a lot of wisdom but ultimately you try things and figure out what works or not, right? Sucks to get old! Seems safe to 1.) Rest 2.) Get medical input, PT, regular doc 3.) Get diet right 4.) Add stretching, cross-training, lifting, yoga to workouts 5.) Consider supplements. I'm a 20 + year runner, 10+ year MTB, and have worked through small injuries. Knees are great so far at nearly 55 having worked through the above list. Injuries are part of playing hard. Hoping you find the answers you need.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

One thing to keep in mind with things like fish oil and curcumin is it takes around 3 weeks to a month of daily use to really feel the effects. Whereas NSAIDs you can feel within 45 minutes. I'm speaking specifically to my own life experience here but when I go off of curcumin is when I really notice what it does for my body. Multiply that over the course of 20 years of cycling on and off of it and one begins to appreciate its specific properties. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## old_er (Dec 27, 2020)

33red said:


> Well i am trying many suggestions. My saddle height was determined by a pro 6 years ago so it is fine.
> I pushed my saddle a bit forward that might help (this bike is almost new).
> I started taking glucosamine, adding massage to my daily routine. I will do a little more yoga and stretching.
> I will try to tweak my diet. I do not push all out, i know i have not been 27 for some time.
> I think about 3.5 Hrs is not too much. Thanks for your input.


Try lowering your saddle height by 5mm and go for a ride. Age has a tendency to compress things a bit. I had left knee pain last year on a bike that had been fit to me back in 2014. I wasn't sure what happened but saw a suggestion to lower the saddle slightly until the pain was relieved.
Pro fit six years ago may not account for your physicality now.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

33red said:


> Well i am trying many suggestions. My saddle height was determined by a pro 6 years ago so it is fine.
> I pushed my saddle a bit forward that might help (this bike is almost new).
> I started taking glucosamine, adding massage to my daily routine. I will do a little more yoga and stretching.
> I will try to tweak my diet. I do not push all out, i know i have not been 27 for some time.
> I think about 3.5 Hrs is not too much. Thanks for your input.


Just read an article on velonews.com that reminded me of this thread. Feel free to read it yourself but it basically states that your fit changes over time, even if your inseam stays nearly identical, your torso can shorten, so just because you had a pro fit done at one time does not mean it'll stay optimal.
I've shortened the stem length on the 3 road bikes and 2 mt bikes last year and it has taken care of a little 'niggle' in my back after long rides.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Just read an article on velonews.com that reminded me of this thread. Feel free to read it yourself but it basically states that your fit changes over time, even if your inseam stays nearly identical, your torso can shorten, so just because you had a pro fit done at one time does not mean it'll stay optimal.
> I've shortened the stem length on the 3 road bikes and 2 mt bikes last year and it has taken care of a little 'niggle' in my back after long rides.


Thanks. I am aware that i shrunked. I use the saddle height. Then i find a painless zone (for my knees) playing forward/backward.
I finish with the cockpit again finding my comfort.
This is the first time my cranks are only 160 so that might be part of my issue.
I am not in pain but i feel some discomfort.
With your help i will find the solution.
With my extra long legs i use a riser on a small frame to fit my torso.
Glucosamine is cheap so i plan to keep using it.


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## old_er (Dec 27, 2020)

33red said:


> Thanks. I am aware that i shrunked. I use the saddle height. Then i find a painless zone (for my knees) playing forward/backward.
> I finish with the cockpit again finding my comfort.
> This is the first time my cranks are only 160 so that might be part of my issue.
> I am not in pain but i feel some discomfort.
> ...


Out of curiosity, the pro fit you had done, what kind of bike was it done on? What fit method was used?
Bike fit is very subjective and a "pro fit" may not do a non-pro many favors.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

old_er said:


> Bike fit is very subjective and a "pro fit" may not do a non-pro many favors.



A good pro bike fitter should always match a position that's appropriate for the rider and the type of bike they're on. Just like any craft though not all "pros" are all that good and some research may be necessary to find a good one.

I'm not sure bike fit has anything to do with the op's problems but I do think a good pro bike fit is one of the best investments any cycling enthusiast can make, especially if they ride on the road much at all. 

For example most people have a leg length imbalance and a shim under one cleat can have a huge impact.


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## Randy777 (Jul 6, 2006)

I have used Glucosamine Sulfate for years because of knee pain. I really helps. BTW, I am 63. However, do not buy Glucosamine HCI as it doesn't work.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

rockman said:


> The OP is 65. It may be that it's past the point of return for supplements or vitamin I. ........ The pain is simply osteoarthritis.
> 
> The end game is joint replacement and that comes down to a quality of life decision.


This is me. "Severe OA" and "bone on bone contact" on radiologist's report from knee x-rays. Thank you youthful life of joyful motocross racing (and some genetics)! Per the doc, I've tried gluc, curc, and HA, each for an 8-week course. No bueno. Next step was some low-dose OA meds. Nope, then nope, then a big YUP with Mobic (sp?). 

I know the risks, but it has transformed my life. I now go days without thinking about knee pain, even during a pretty heavy winter schedule of alpine skiing.

Per my doc, the preferred arc is 1) low-dose Mobic, then 2) possible injections, then 3) knee replacement. I'm hoping for 10 more years, when joint replacement has jumped a few more levels from its current pretty good state.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Look into everything you eat, like vegetable oils which is in many things you might not think its in like salad dressings and most of all mayo. Eat real food not processed food or food in a box which all have added chemicals for longer storage life which increases profits. Think about detox and fasting whether its intermittent or multiple day long fasts.

You have to realize that the vitamin and supplement industry is not regulated, the only thing government really cares about is false advertising so they will show up to the sup co's offices with guns but yet its not a regulated industry. If you do go down that route, its a lot of research to figure out whats good and whats not in terms of what to take but its even more work to figure out what companies are doing and where they are sourcing their bulk from.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

matt4x4 said:


> Look into everything you eat, like vegetable oils which is in many things you might not think its in like salad dressings and most of all mayo. Eat real food not processed food or food in a box which all have added chemicals for longer storage life which increases profits. Think about detox and fasting whether its intermittent or multiple day long fasts.
> 
> You have to realize that the vitamin and supplement industry is not regulated, the only thing government really cares about is false advertising so they will show up to the sup co's offices with guns but yet its not a regulated industry. If you do go down that route, its a lot of research to figure out whats good and whats not in terms of what to take but its even more work to figure out what companies are doing and where they are sourcing their bulk from.


Thanks. 30 years ago i was 5 feet 11.75. I fasted 4 weeks and reached 102 pounds but now like regularly 1 am 138, 28.5 inches waistline.
I never eat mayo nor salad dresing and garbage. I had 1 bad habit, chips wich i am free from for about a year.
I did not planned to fill myself with supplements.
I had 1 in mind Glucosamine and since many say it helps, i take it daily.
My knees are better, maybe it is because i pushed my saddle forward,
or some massages around the hips, or stretching or glucosamine.

Thanks everyone 
I ride 3.5 Hrs daily and my mood is to the roof.
I laugh for no reason.
I am living the golden years, well in my perception.
Last 6 weeks in Quebec we had colder than average, i see mostly
dog walkers, fat riders with heated socks and heated stuff stay home.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

33red said:


> I ride 3.5 Hrs daily and my mood is to the roof.



~25 hours a week? No wonder your knees hurt!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

would be nice if it were not so daunting to separate "snake oils" from genuine beneficial treatment regimen...
With "Supplements" there is not much to prevent fictitious claim of benefit much less, harmful side effects or drug interaction.

Knee issues... How many actually listen to their body as it tells a story? Seriously! How many get an issue looked at by someone qualified, with credentials in the appropriate field?


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## Ryan Meader (Dec 2, 2013)

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned Cissus Quadrangularis yet. Stuff is incredible for connective tissue/joint pain and healing as well as broken bone healing. Works by unique mechanisms (arachidonic acid) that pretty much nothing else does. Is also good for muscle recovery.

Being a disabled rider with a litany of severe arthritic issues and a pretty heinous permanently double-dislocated clavicle among other things, Cissus has been a huge help. Osteopathic specialists have been amazed at how fast and completely my broken bones heal with it — 30-50% faster than typical.


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

You say you had a professional fitting 6 years ago.
Also noted you moved your saddle forward on an almost new bike.
At 70, you should get another bike fit since you got a new bike. The geo is probably different enough that its affecting your positioning.
Your body is also different now than it was 6 years ago.
Also check your cleats. Worn cleats cause a lot of movement in feet / knee / hip areas.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Ryan Meader said:


> I’m surprised nobody has mentioned Cissus Quadrangularis yet.


This stuff looks interesting.

As noted above, I've OA has a pretty firm grip on my old knees, and I've tried numerous supplements with no success, but I may give this a whirl.

Anybody else have any esperience?

Thanks!


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Well to get looked at by a professional you should really look carefully because even doctors mess up, all doctors know is to prescribe medicine.
To become a md they spend very little time on diet and even less time on addiction.


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## Crash_FLMB (Jan 21, 2004)

I admit I didn't read all of the replies but I've been taking Relief Factor for 5 or more years and it's amazing...for me. I think each joint supplement is slightly different and you need to see what works for you. I take it 2X's daily and rarely have joint pain. Before I started it, the joint pain was mild but always there. 

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Just got a supplemental cortisone shot yesterday!


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## Dorp to falt (Nov 20, 2021)

Jayem said:


> Just got a supplemental cortisone shot yesterday!


Pffft. You and your snake oil. It's the salad dressing that's causing your knee pain.
And I know that the non-displaced tears in my left and right meniscus have nothing to do with my knee pain!


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Just got a supplemental cortisone shot yesterday!


Good luck! These are generally considered short to medium-term "fixes" but I got one for a shoulder problem 10 years ago, and things are still perfect.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

TLDR: I skimmed but I'll add my experience. Anti inflammatory joint pain relief doesn't happen after a couple of doses in most cases. These things don't work like Ibuprofen (which is instant, temporary relief). You need to take it regularly and for a couple of weeks before you may see results. 

Most often when I recommend someone try one of the below products they don't take it consistently or for a long enough period of time for it to work. They do it for 4-5 days, or sporadically for a longer period, and determine that it doesn't work for them. People who have taken it correctly have great things to say about the results. 

CBD oil- I started taking it to help me sleep. It didn't do that for me but after two weeks I noticed I hadn't had shoulder or hip pain in a few days. Huh, that was an unexpected result. (I did that for 4-6 months)

Turmeric pills- Targets joint pain, works great for me. This is all I take now.


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## JohnWhiteCD (Aug 28, 2015)

Thanks for relating your thoughts OneSpeed. May I ask how much CBD oil you were taking? I’m noticing a small result in my anxiety and ability to sleep, but only use it sporadically due to cost of this heavy duty organic ****. Still, I haven’t felt any relief of joint pain.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I was taking Floyds oil and taking it orally under the tongue. I don't recall exactly. Once or twice per day, a few drops under the tongue. Maybe half a dropper vial each time IIRC? 

I'm 210lbs for reference.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

MaX-D said:


> I had knee pain for years. I found out through Squat University that my knee pain was caused by my hips being too tight. I started doing stretching and mobility exercises to loosen up my hips and my knee pain went away.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Yeah if the OP rides 4 hours a day, there’s defined a quad overuse, so probably ITB tightness and hamstring weakness, and possibly glute. 

Definitely agree that stretching and rolling help, as well as taking out inflammatory stuff in the diet, but if it’s structural, go see a PT or a doc and get diagnosed right.


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## JohnWhiteCD (Aug 28, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I was taking Floyds oil and taking it orally under the tongue. I don't recall exactly. Once or twice per day, a few drops under the tongue. Maybe half a dropper vial each time IIRC?
> 
> I'm 210lbs for reference.


Thanks. Was taking turmeric as well. Will probably start again as well.


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## Let's Ride (Dec 3, 2007)

Last year I rode more than any previous year. Everything held up okay. I'm 61.

My magic combo:
Condroitin/Glucosamine w/ Tumeric & MSM - every other day
Manganese Bisglycinate - before or after every ride
BCAA - after ride
Compression sleeves on one or both knees
Australian Dream cream for post ride knee pain

Also: I switched to flats about 8 years ago. My IB issues (that had been a problem for years) went away. Mostly. I attribute it to being able to shift my foot position during rides.


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## Stanceslao (Nov 5, 2021)

ElTortoise said:


> I had the same problem and taking Glucosamine/Chondroitin really helped. It's over the counter and you can get it in just about any drug or health food store. Costco has probably the best deal on it. It takes a little time to notice the difference and be sure to take the recommended dosage.





Let's Ride said:


> Last year I rode more than any previous year. Everything held up okay. I'm 61.
> 
> My magic combo:
> Condroitin/Glucosamine w/ Tumeric & MSM - every other day
> ...




These... my mother who had really painful knee joints was fine after 2 weeks of taking it. I myself take it now regularly as a precautionary measure. I have spoken to an orthopedic surgeon I worked with before and he said yes, those supplements help. He even said it should be taken even before pain sets in because it will be too late by then, but it will still help alleviate the pain.


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