# Motobecane bikes @ bikes direct



## applecafe (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm looking for some advice. I need a new bike and have an old Gary Fisher Marlin (2001). Looking to upgrade bike, especially components. The motobecane has some bikes with XTR, XT an SLX components at a great price....the rest of the components look decent as well. Anyone have any legitimate info on motobecane?


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Motobecane, Windsor, Dawes, Mercier (road) sold on BikesDirect are all owned by BikesDirect and are made by Kinesis...mostly in Taiwan. Kinesis makes quality bikes for a lot of the mainstream brands and they are of equal quality. I picked up a Windsor 29er this summer from them and am quite happy with it. 

Remember though, there is a trade-off when buying a bike online. The bikes come in "dealer ready" condition and take some good mechanical skills to assemble correctly. Of course you could pay a Bike Shop to do it, a good shop will not turn down a chance to earn a customer on service and accessories...even if you didn't buy the bike from them. You also don't get to test ride one unless you live near a Cycle Spectrum (also owned by BD).

But if your comfortable with the lack of test ride and service...they are good bikes that are well equipped for the money.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

mediocre frames with good components.. id rather have a great frame with mediocre components.. but different strokes i guess.


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## justonegear (Feb 16, 2008)

Try to buy a bike that you can resale. In time you will want to upgrade. I know some will trash me for this but you won't be able to give the Becane away when your done with it. If you get a brand name bike, ie, Specialized, Cannondale, Trek or the like you will be able to move it quickly and get into the new one. I'm not trying to bag on Motobecane bike's just trying to help you stay on a new improved bike every year or so.... Happy Trails


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

I would suggest finding a bike that you could test ride unless you want to compare your current bikes geometry to the motobecane's. The feel of the bike means a lot more than the group of parts that's bolted to the frame. I have never dealt with the company myself so I cannot comment on their customer service, but you can search the internet to find some horror stories. I read one article when motobecane wouldn't replace someone's road frame and wanted him to buy a new frame even though it wasn't abused or wrecked. It was simply mismade and cracked at the bottom bracket. I hope what I stated is not their norm or hopefully they would not be in business. Hopefully someone else can give you more feedback. Motobecane is highly discussed on this site so do a search here as well.


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## remybigtime (Oct 1, 2008)

I bought a fantom team a couple of months ago and it is a pretty good bike with mostly excellent components. However, I wasn't crazy about the bikes geometry. I ended up buying a santa cruz blur lt frame off ebay and using the moto as a parts donor. So, you can upgrade in either direction. Also, the assembly was pretty simple, though I did take it to my LBS to adjust the front derailer. The nice thing about the moto is that the entire bike was cheaper than what I would have paid for just an xtr drivetrain.


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## CupOfJava (Dec 1, 2008)

tomsmoto said:


> mediocre frames with good components.. id rather have a great frame with mediocre components.. but different strokes i guess.


What's wrong with their frames?


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Nothing...they are not exotic but they are well built by the same company (Kinesis) that makes GT, Jamis, Diamondback, Raleigh, Kona, Santa Cruz...and many more.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

^ yeah.. theres nothing wrong with the frames at all.. so long as you're looking for your every day 71 deg ht cross country bike.. or a full suspension bike with a very simple linkage single pivot. they're quality built frames, they just dont have any stand out features. 

companies like santa cruz might not actually manufacturer the bike you buy, but they sure did design and test that bike to death, and its built to their exact specifications. when you buy a santa cruz, you buy a bike designed and built by them, its just produced in a facotry somewhere else. motobecane isnt doing much frame designing or suspension engineering. 

id give up an xtr kit with generic suspension for an lx kit with dw link or maestro or vpp.


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## CupOfJava (Dec 1, 2008)

it's funny how someone can become an expert on frames after only a year of riding.


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## jdr6031 (Oct 12, 2008)

i currently own the motobecane fantom tail. i have had the opp to ride other bikes such as haro and specialized and honestly wouldnt trade it! forks and all components all seemed 
to be more high end. def wouldn let the logo sway the judgement. love mine and ride it hard,,zero probs


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## applecafe (Dec 18, 2008)

Thanks to all for your advice. Much appreciated.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

CupOfJava said:


> it's funny how someone can become an expert on frames after only a year of riding.


me? ive been riding/racing since i was 10. im 25 now. if you're just bandwagoning because you own a moto therefore it HAS to be the best bike ever.. hey thumbs up bud. throw out some more helpful cheapshots.

theres no hidden secret behind motos and ibex's and windsors and sawbacks.. they're good, regular bikes for cheap. theres nothing wrong with that, but theres nothing all that special about it either.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

and.....................here..............................we.....................................................go..............


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## ruralrider528 (Nov 8, 2008)

I ordered my first real mountain bike from them a few years back, Ive never had any problem with the frame. It came with some cheap components that weren't too great(lower spec model). So I figure that if you get a good spec bike you will have a pretty good ride. I cant complain, its what got me started with "real" bikes so I am happy with it.


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## jdr6031 (Oct 12, 2008)

good bike


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

tomsmoto said:


> me? ive been riding/racing since i was 10. im 25 now. if you're just bandwagoning because you own a moto therefore it HAS to be the best bike ever.. hey thumbs up bud. throw out some more helpful cheapshots.
> 
> theres no hidden secret behind motos and ibex's and windsors and sawbacks.. they're good, regular bikes for cheap.* theres nothing wrong with that, but theres nothing all that special about it either*.


My point: there are plenty of 'special' frames out there -- some are sold only in shops; some are sold only on-line; some are sold in both; BUT method of sale does not make a frame special - nor does advertising or sponsorships. Also there is no perfect frame design; or all those of us that design bikes would use the same exact designs.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> Also there is no perfect frame design; or all those of us that design bikes would use the same exact designs.


Are you saying that none of your frames are similar to other brand frames? I heard that some of your frames are the same as Fuji's.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Are you saying that none of your frames are similar to other brand frames? I heard that some of your frames are the same as Fuji's.


The same could be said about alot of frames, case in point, Blk Mrkt was the first to make a true DJ - soon after joe, dick, and harry bike manufacture jumped on the band wagon and copyed the Mob frames geometry - heck, I've seen other frames that look almost exactly like a Mob down to the taperd chain/seat stays. (aside from a few very minor differences and if I didnt know any better I'ed say these were made in the same tiawan factory (or wherever they are made) with different stickers slapped on them)

Spank frame.










Mob frame. (riots are the same but made overseas)


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Anyone ever notice how, on a fairly regular basis, a new forum member joins MTBR and starts a thread with their first or second posts asking about bikesdirect and highlighting the "great parts for the price" that you can get for little money?

Are they legit, am I too cynical, or is it a bikesdirect marketing tactic?


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

jeffgothro said:


> (aside from a few very minor differences and if I didnt know any better I'ed say these were made in the same tiawan factory with different stickers slapped on them)


Yes, I agree. It's like ordering frames from a catalog and having your company's stickers slapped on. Is that the "Design" capabilities that are being claimed by BD in this thread?


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## middy (Jun 11, 2008)

I think they are legit. It's natural to ask about what seems like a great deal to make sure there isn't a "catch".

IMO, if you can do your own setup, know how to size yourself, and are willing to buy a bike without a test ride and without a popular brand name, then there is no catch to buying from bikesdirect. I've owned one and rode a few more of their bikes and they all seemed to be good deals for the price.


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## middy (Jun 11, 2008)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Yes, I agree. It's like ordering frames from a catalog and having your company's stickers slapped on. Is that the "Design" capabilities that are being claimed by BD in this thread?


But when Fuji or KHS do it and charge more... that's OK?


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Yes, I agree. It's like ordering frames from a catalog and having your company's stickers slapped on. Is that the "Design" capabilities that are being claimed by BD in this thread?


Agreed...and to the OP

Go here...

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=475518


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

middy said:


> But when Fuji or KHS do it and charge more... that's OK?


Are you saying Fuji and KHS sell copies?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I'm a moderalty seasoned rider...*



applecafe said:


> I'm looking for some advice. I need a new bike and have an old Gary Fisher Marlin (2001). Looking to upgrade bike, especially components. The motobecane has some bikes with XTR, XT an SLX components at a great price....the rest of the components look decent as well. Anyone have any legitimate info on motobecane?


... and I recently bought a Motobecane Fantom 29er frame. I had the rest of the parts. My deal was that I wanted a 29er geared bike, and wanted to build one on the cheap. I know sometime in the future I'll get a nice suspension frame.

I know I was not getting a Turner here, but its decent. Ride is kinda harsh. Frame is kinda heavy. Welds are a bit cheesy, but I don't fear for the head tube shearing off or anything. It's your basic low tech baseball bat of a frame. They didn't design any 'good' flex into the frame... no butted tubing... no hydroformed tapering. It's basically no different than the basic Trek, Giant, Gary Fisher, or anything else in that class.

For a beginner, I strongly recommend getting a bike from your LBS. They will size you, support you, and take care of you while you get an education on bikes. If you show up with an internet dealer ready bike, the LBS is going to roll their eyes at you whenever you walk int he door... and probably not give you any service without paying full pop for it.

If you know what you are doing, you can always buy a complete Motobecane, and transplant the parts to a better frame one you figure out what that is.... if you know what you are doing.


From Fantom29er


From Fantom29er


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## holycrikey (Sep 7, 2008)

Sigh...here we go with the debates yet again.

People will ***** about some of the bikes only being a single-pivot design.

Others will ***** about boring geometries and old designs. 

Take the bike for what it is and compare them to similarly priced-bikes. I think bikesdirect offers some good values in that regard. 

If you're a first time biker, I dare say that your first bike won't necessarily last you forever. I vote for getting good components and if mountain biking is REALLY for you, swap over to a better frame in a couple years. There is no point in dumping over a grand on a bike if you aren't sure about your dedication to it. 

I'll apply the same logic to a kid getting an old beater of a car for his first vehicle, versus getting a gift of a BMW 7 series or other luxury vehicle. You just don't get the same appreciation if things are just dumped into your lap (regardless if it's your money spent or not.) Get a decent bike, try out the sport and if its for you then drop more cash for something better on.

Entry level bikes are made for that demographic. 

Again, this post is with the assumption that the OP is relatively new to game.


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## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> ... and I recently bought a Motobecane Fantom 29er frame. I had the rest of the parts. My deal was that I wanted a 29er geared bike, and wanted to build one on the cheap. I know sometime in the future I'll get a nice suspension frame.
> 
> I know I was not getting a Turner here, but its decent. Ride is kinda harsh. Frame is kinda heavy. Welds are a bit cheesy, but I don't fear for the head tube shearing off or anything. It's your basic low tech baseball bat of a frame. They didn't design any 'good' flex into the frame... no butted tubing... no hydroformed tapering. It's basically no different than the basic Trek, Giant, Gary Fisher, or anything else in that class.
> 
> ...


That's a nice looking frame. None of that swoopy, curvy, pre-bent crap that does nothing but add cost and weight, in exchange for a little style. I just don't get the folks that pay more for "style". Perhaps it's because that's what the marketers are pushing. To each there own, I suppose. But unfortunately, it runs up the cost of bikes for folks who just like to ride.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

some of us like nice things and can afford them. no need for you to bash them just because you cant. formed, butted tubes save weight.. thats why they do them.


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## middy (Jun 11, 2008)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Are you saying Fuji and KHS sell copies?


They order frames from the catalogs and have their companies stickers slapped on, on their low-end models.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

middy said:


> They order frames from the catalogs and have their companies stickers slapped on, on their low-end models.


Then they too sell copies (with no R&D or design input), on their low-end models. I've just never seen them claiming that their bikes are twice as good at half the price as does BD. In fact I don't see them selling on these forums at all. I wonder why?


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Question?*



Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Then they too sell copies (with no R&D or design input), on their low-end models. I've just never seen them claiming that their bikes are twice as good at half the price as does BD. In fact I don't see them selling on these forums at all. I wonder why?


Why do you have a hard on for Bikes Direct? They're an online bicycle distributor. They sell a line or brand of bikes and are trying to sell that line. They're marketing their bike and their business in order to sell bikes.

They've not done anything dishonorable, immoral or shady. They're just trying to run an online business.

I've not done business with them. I've not purchased a bike from them. But other than your crusade, not one person here has said anything negative about them.

Giant does the same thing. There are several "OEM's" that subcontract to frabrication factories in Asia. Some of the OEM's frames are the same as other OEM's frames with different paint and stickers.

For that matter, some pro riders will ride bikes with their sponsors paint and logos but the bike isn't manufactured by that sponsor. It happens across the board. So again, why the hate for a company that you haven't ever done business with? Do you work for a competitor?


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Ken in KC said:


> Why do you have a hard on for Bikes Direct? They're an online bicycle distributor. They sell a line or brand of bikes and are trying to sell that line. They're marketing their bike and their business in order to sell bikes.
> 
> They've not done anything dishonorable, immoral or shady. They're just trying to run an online business.
> 
> ...


No, I don't have a "Hard on" for or hate any company. No, I've never worked for a competitor.

Listen Ken, I wasn't born yesterday, I know what happens in the business world. BUT, these forums are not that world. I would like to think these forums are for Mountain Bikers sharing pictures, experiences, information and some laughs.

Would you like it if ALL companies that had anything to do with Mountain Biking started posting ads and links like BD does in these forums? That would be worse than the commercials on TV.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Motobecane and bikesdirect is chilly-chill. The Fantom29 Pro still stands alone as far as bang for buck. ...Fig-a- deal me? Anybody got a better deal than the Fantom29 Pro? Holla atcha bro-bro. :thumbsup: ...


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## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

tomsmoto said:


> some of us like nice things and can afford them. no need for you to bash them just because you cant. formed, butted tubes save weight.. thats why they do them.


If this was a response to my post, you're clearly self-deluded. If it was a response to someone else's, my apologies. It's not clear who you were responding to.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

eh. im not looking to get in an argument about it. if you like low end bikes thats fine.. you dont have to call better bikes crap though, especially when the reasons you give arent true.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*One of the things...*



Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> No, I don't have a "Hard on" for or hate any company. No, I've never worked for a competitor.
> 
> Listen Ken, I wasn't born yesterday, I know what happens in the business world. BUT, these forums are not that world. I would like to think these forums are for Mountain Bikers sharing pictures, experiences, information and some laughs.
> 
> Would you like it if ALL companies that had anything to do with Mountain Biking started posting ads and links like BD does in these forums? That would be worse than the commercials on TV.


One of the things I find valuable about MTBR is the representation from the bike industry here. About the only difference between Mike's advice and any other bike industry person is that his screen name is BikesDirect vs. IHeartBikes or some other anonomuous persona.

You seem to be kicking him in the balls for actions that the entire bike industry takes.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*It would help...*



tomsmoto said:


> eh. im not looking to get in an argument about it. if you like low end bikes thats fine.. you dont have to call better bikes crap though, especially when the reasons you give arent true.


It would really help the rest of us out if you would post under the post you're responding to vs. at the end of the entire thread (hit the quote button on a specific post vs. the reply button at the top or bottom of the page).

I agree with you. There are good value bikes to be found in the $300-$900 range. They're "great" bikes for what they are: Entry to mid level mountain bikes.

They are not "the best". They are not better performers than more expensive bikes. They may be "better" for someone based on their criteria (cost consious, etc.) but they're by no means going to be this (whatever this really means):


zarr said:


> Motobecane and bikesdirect is chilly-chill. The Fantom29 Pro still stands alone as far as bang for buck. ...Fig-a- deal me? Anybody got a better deal than the Fantom29 Pro? Holla atcha bro-bro. ...


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Ken in KC said:


> One of the things I find valuable about MTBR is the representation from the bike industry here. About the only difference between Mike's advice and any other bike industry person is that his screen name is BikesDirect vs. IHeartBikes or some other anonomuous persona.
> 
> You seem to be kicking him in the balls for actions that the entire bike industry takes.


I agree that input from the bike industry is valuable to us here on MTBR. However, BD is the only one that I see posting mostly links and statements that are blatant sales tactics. Kudos to the moderator for removing the "Spam" from this thread.


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## LongB4 (Sep 7, 2008)

zarr said:


> Motobecane and bikesdirect is chilly-chill. The Fantom29 Pro still stands alone as far as bang for buck. ...Fig-a- deal me? Anybody got a better deal than the Fantom29 Pro? Holla atcha bro-bro. :thumbsup: ...


Yeh...better deal is the windsor cliff 29er team from BD. For $185 more you snatch nearly $500 worth of upgrades. The point is you get a hell of a deal from these guys (doesn't walmart eat everyone's lunch with the same process?) Why all the complaining (not the word I used but the word police censored it) about BikesDirect? Is it a Union thing?


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> I agree that input from the bike industry is valuable to us here on MTBR. However, BD is the only one that I see posting mostly links and statements that are blatant sales tactics. Kudos to the moderator for removing the "Spam" from this thread.


ive never really felt that way about mike and bd.. yeah he tosses in some links, but maybe just once per thread, and hes not the one who started the topic anyway.

could be worse.. look at the ibex guys! :lol:


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## scoholofo (Oct 23, 2008)

You get a good part list for the money and a basic frame. The downfall is that you can not ride it before hand. These bikes are marketed more towards people that are new to mountain biking and do not know what the are looking for as far as geometry. I would be leary of buying a bike without riding it. On the other hand if you know what you are looking for you can get a fantastic deal. I know a few people that have gotten 29ers from bikes direct as second bike and seem pretty happy. Just dont think that because you have an xtr drive train you are getting the best in frame design because the frames are very generic in design.


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Are you saying that none of your frames are similar to other brand frames? I heard that some of your frames are the same as Fuji's.


No - I am not saying that.

I am saying it is best if people post things that they know. And to say that on-line sellers use frames that are not as good as frames sold in shops is not correct. As you point out; many bikes sold online have exactly the same frames as bikes sold in stores.

Of course, all of us who spec frames from Kinesis, ADK, Sunrise, Martec, Astro, etc are supplied with the same quality of frame. And these frame shops will build whatever design you send them.

I think some posters want to explain price differences in bikes with factors other than the actual reason that prices vary from seller to seller. {IE - they maybe looking for excusses}

Myself, I think it is a great time for cyclists; as there are lots of designs available and many options in how to buy cycling gear.


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Yes, I agree. It's like ordering frames from a catalog and having your company's stickers slapped on. Is that the "Design" capabilities that are being claimed by BD in this thread?


We do some of both.
1} Getting proven designs that exist
2} Designing our own frames for some models

What is important is getting the buyer the best design and value that they can afford.

I have designed hundreds of frames; and have nothing to prove. So if a great design exists for a given function; we will use it. If nothing fits our concept on a new model; I just design what we need.

There are no frames that fit what I wanted in our newest Cafe Models that use 3 & 8 speed Nexus hubs - so I did it. But we have a new low end ATB coming and there are plenty of good frames from Kinesis & Sunrise for that type bike; so I picked one.

In the end, getting a good frame design can be done in many ways. What is important is good quality and a price that gets the cyclist on a bike they can really enjoy.

I am happy we can offer customers lots of choices.


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## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

tomsmoto said:


> eh. im not looking to get in an argument about it. if you like low end bikes thats fine.. you dont have to call better bikes crap though, especially when the reasons you give arent true.


OK. Now I know you weren't responding to my post.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

tomsmoto said:


> ive never really felt that way about mike and bd.. yeah he tosses in some links, but maybe just once per thread, and hes not the one who started the topic anyway.
> 
> could be worse.. look at the ibex guys! :lol:


No, he didn't start the topic, but he always seems to show up giving "advice" to the OPs of this kind of thread. And, funny thing, that "advice" will put money into his pocket.

I must defend the Ibex guys. They've been doing a lot better since their last go around.


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> I agree that input from the bike industry is valuable to us here on MTBR. However, BD is the only one that I see posting mostly links and statements that are blatant sales tactics. Kudos to the moderator for removing the "Spam" from this thread.


Sorry: You missed the point completely.

I posted a link as an answer to a post where thee poster said there is nothing special about bikes from online sellers.

His statement was just plain false. The Moto Fly Team Ti is very special in the industry and so I posted that as an example.

I was not trying to sell it! It is alomost sold out [check site and you will find most sizes are gone.] Also we will be out way before we can get more; which is true on all our Ti models. Our factory can only build a limited number per month. So we have to deal with being out of Road Ti bikes while building new Ti 29er. When building road Ti we have to live with being out of Fly or CX Ti models.

The only reason I posted here in this thread was to clear up the mis-statement that nothing 'special' was sold by bikesdirect or ibex.

The idea that you can only get 'special' bikes in a bike shop is clearly wrong. Plus it discounts the truth that very bike that is used safely is special. I love cyclists; but elitists not so much

I like choices


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

justonegear said:


> Try to buy a bike that you can resale.* In time you will want to upgrade. I know some will trash me for this but you won't be able to give the Becane away when your done with it.* If you get a brand name bike, ie, Specialized, Cannondale, Trek or the like you will be able to move it quickly and get into the new one. I'm not trying to bag on Motobecane bike's just trying to help you stay on a new improved bike every year or so.... Happy Trails


OK - I'll bite

Actually most cyclists when they upgrade do not sell their bikes {I suggest you never sell a bike you like]

But if a Motobecane purchased from us is sold it often gets much higher percentage of purchase price than other brands. In fact, we see used Motos sell for more than we sell them for on craigs list or ebay. {you can check this out yourself - it is kinda wild}.
I have seen people buy a bike from us; ride it a year, sell it for $200 over what they paid us; then buy a higher level bike from us.

And people who buy top end Motos do not think much of upgrading. Some models it would be hard to find anything better anyway. {a few resent magazine reveiws on Ti Motos have made that clear.}

Your point is well taken that Treks hold their value well. But if you pay $900 for a Trek 1.2 and $450 for a Dawes Lightning 1200 [very close bikes] - the year old Trek might be worth $450 and the year old Dawes $300. trek would bring more - BUT cost owner much more in depreciation.

On the other hand, I think selling a bike you enjoy is never a great idea; if you have more to keep them - they can be a thing of joy forever.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> So if a great design exists for a given function; we will use it.


How do you get around a patent if you want to use a modern "great design"? Are you using any modern "great designs"?


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

antonio said:


> Anyone ever notice how, on a fairly regular basis, a new forum member joins MTBR and starts a thread with their first or second posts asking about bikesdirect and highlighting the "great parts for the price" that you can get for little money?
> 
> Are they legit, am I too cynical, or is it a bikesdirect marketing tactic?


I have no idea if you are too cynical
BUT I do know that no employee or associated BD person posts on forums
I have made it clear that only I will post on forums - always under my name

But to answer your question; it makes sense that many new posters are thinking about us and come to forums for info.

As you may know bikesdirect is one of the top 10 cycling sites on traffic; and as we sell only complete bikes many buyers are more interested in researching BD than bikeisland or pricepoint or other sites that mainly sell components and such.

And when shoppers ask us for sources on bikes; we send them links and copies of magazine reveiws AND we direct them to mtbr, roadbikereveiw, and bikeforums as places to find out info. I am in favor of buyers finding out as much as they can to help them make sound decisions.

I can assure you; any new member such as the OP posts a question about our bikes; they are not an employee of mine in any form or fashion.


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> How do you get around a patent if you want to use a modern "great design"? Are you using any modern "great designs"?


We clearly do not violate patents

If we want to use a patented design; we buy the right to do that from the owner.

Of course, as you probably know; very few frame designs are patented.
None I know of in rigid bikes [road, hardtail, comfort, hybrid, cruiser]

Some FS designs are: we do not use any of those.

We use lots of modern great designs; some mine; some from others.
I am not in this for pride; but to provide the best product I can at a great price.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

most people hear about a bike and sign up to ask questions. theres not much "ninja in the bushes" about it. most motobecanes are entry level, it makes sense for new posters to be asking about such bikes (and hardrocks, and forges, and yukons, and ibexs, etc). mtbr just likes a good witchhunt :lol:


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

bikesdirect said:


> . . . I can assure you; any new member such as the OP posts a question about our bikes; they are not an employee of mine in any form or fashion.


Thanks for the reply. I'm still a little suspicious, but it's not really that deep.

Good luck with your business - definitely a good bang for the buck.

Ant


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*I disagree....*



Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> No, he didn't start the topic, but he always seems to show up giving "advice" to the OPs of this kind of thread. And, funny thing, that "advice" will put money into his pocket.
> 
> I must defend the Ibex guys. They've been doing a lot better since their last go around.


If his advice is solid and it results in him making money, is that really a bad thing? If his advice is bunk, he'll get called on it (Ibex).

You're defending the Ibex guys but you have a problem with Bikes Direct? Really? _Really?_


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Ken in KC said:


> If his advice is solid and it results in him making money, is that really a bad thing? If his advice is bunk, he'll get called on it (Ibex).
> 
> You're defending the Ibex guys but you have a problem with Bikes Direct? Really? _Really?_


His "advice" seems to be given only to sell his products and yes, that is a bad thing. Have you ever read the forum rules?

Mike has been called on it. It doesn't seem to deter him until the mods get involved.

Yes, really. They have backed off. Mike hasn't.


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> His "advice" seems to be given only to sell his products and yes, that is a bad thing. Have you ever read the forum rules?
> 
> Mike has been called on it. It doesn't seem to deter him until the mods get involved.
> 
> Yes, really. They have backed off. Mike hasn't.


I am unsure what your problem is.

This thread is on bikesdirect and motobecane. And I did not come in the thread to sell anyone anything. I entered the thread to correct a mis-statement.

You are not addressing that; you are just throwing bombs; which does not help answer the OP's question.

If on the other hand you think I should back off defending my products against mis-statements; you are just silly. And if you scan mtbr, roadbikereveiw, and bikeforums; you will find I have also defended other companies and products against false posts.

My feeling is: cycling forums are great; but there are many people who post statements that are incorrect {for various reasons}. I wish more industry members would enter the forums and get invloved with the discussions.

I feel opinions are great; but should not be stated as facts. 
The OP's question was: "Anyone have any legitimate info on motobecane?"

Of course, I can provide lots of facts to answer that question. But that will really sound like a sales pitch! As you might guess; I know the value we provide in a Motobecane.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*You're heading down a slippery slope...*



Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> His "advice" seems to be given only to sell his products and yes, that is a bad thing. Have you ever read the forum rules?
> 
> Mike has been called on it. It doesn't seem to deter him until the mods get involved.
> 
> Yes, really. They have backed off. Mike hasn't.


Okay you're acting like an internet or forum tough guy. Here's the slope you're heading down: You've been riding mountain bikes for less than a year. You've come on to a forum where some people have been around for over a decade and know each other, have ridden together and have tipped a pint together. And you're appointing yourself the interpreter of the rules.

Here's another post for you to become offended about: 
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=5199273#poststop

The difference is the poster isn't coming out and letting people know the company he's affiliated with.

What is wrong with presenting information about your company and dispelling incorrect information? The answer is nothing.

But you seem to think there's some horrible offense that Mike's comitted.

If you want to become the Forum rules police and cite them at every instance of someone breaking them, you're going have a full time volunteer job that will make you really unpopular with everyone here, including Francios and Gregg, I speculate.

If on the other hand, you're going to cherry pick the forum rules and single out specific posters to apply them to, in my opinion you're acting like a d!ck and and internet tough guy.

Weeks after moving in to a new home, would you set up a citizen speed trap in your nieghborhood and make citizen's arrests on your neighbors for not adhering to the 20 MPH speed limit? Would you walk in to your new neighborhood bar and call the police because the bar tender seems to be over serving a bunch of regulars who have been coming there for years? Maybe you would. But it wouldn't make you very popular with your new neighbors.

Let your indignation go already, get over yourself and help make the forum a better place by contributing, not complaining about what other people are doing.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> I am unsure what your problem is.
> 
> This thread is on bikesdirect and motobecane. And I did not come in the thread to sell anyone anything. I entered the thread to correct a mis-statement.
> 
> ...


Why do you feel you have jump in and deny and refute every statement made on MTBR that you think might be negative to your business? This is a forum, both negative and positive statements will be made. A consensus will come out. Are you afraid of that truth?

As a "Bike Industry Leader" you should let us "little" people have our discussions.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Ken in KC said:


> Okay you're acting like an internet or forum tough guy. Here's the slope you're heading down: You've been riding mountain bikes for less than a year. You've come on to a forum where some people have been around for over a decade and know each other, have ridden together and have tipped a pint together. And you're appointing yourself the interpreter of the rules.
> 
> Here's another post for you to become offended about:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=5199273#poststop
> ...


Are you assuming that one's MTBR join date is also the beginning of their biking experience?

You need to spend some time reading Mike's posting history. Just click on the big BIKESDIRECT at the left of one of his current posts for access.

I have no indignation, but I don't like all the commercials on television either.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*My assumption...*



Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Are you assuming that one's MTBR join date is also the beginning of their biking experience?
> 
> You need to spend some time reading Mike's posting history. Just click on the big BIKESDIRECT at the left of one of his current posts for access.
> 
> I have no indignation, but I don't like all the commercials on television either.


No, my assumption about the beginning of someone's biking experience is based on the "Year you started riding" line on their profile that they fill out. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they're telling the truth about their experience.

Since the profile that you filled out states you started riding in 2008, I assumed that you started riding in 2008. My bad, I guess?


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Follow Up...*



Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Are you assuming that one's MTBR join date is also the beginning of their biking experience?
> 
> You need to spend some time reading Mike's posting history. Just click on the big BIKESDIRECT at the left of one of his current posts for access.
> 
> I have no indignation, but I don't like all the commercials on television either.


I went through and overviewed Mike's posts as you've suggested and I've come to the conclusion that I was right, you do have some sort of hard on for Bike Direct.

His posts are above the board. He makes no bones about representing his company. He offers opinions on bikes that he carries that fit the criteria of what people are asking for. He stands up for his company when he feels people make unfair statements. He takes personal responsibility when someone has unsatisfactory customer service.

Other than you and MonoGod (who works in a bike shop and has a conflict with any online distributor) and a few people who may or may not have legitimate complaints regarding his company, most people here don't really seem to have a problem with Mike or BD.

I certainly don't. I'm unlikely to ever purchase a BD bike but I don't have a problem with him giving advice on what bike to buy. Especially since he doesn't knock other brands when he makes the suggestion.

The only difference between Mike and any yahoo on this forum who claim that their brand of bike is "best" is that Mike qualifies his opinions with links to specs to support his opinion.

Perhaps you and MonoGod should get off his ass?


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Ken in KC said:


> No, my assumption about the beginning of someone's biking experience is based on the "Year you started riding" line on their profile that they fill out. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they're telling the truth about their experience.
> 
> Since the profile that you filled out states you started riding in 2008, I assumed that you started riding in 2008. My bad, I guess?


Ahh, I see where your assumption came from now. That 2008 is an error. My bad, I guess.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Ken in KC said:


> I went through and overviewed Mike's posts as you've suggested and I've come to the conclusion that I was right, you do have some sort of hard on for Bike Direct.
> 
> His posts are above the board. He makes no bones about representing his company. He offers opinions on bikes that he carries that fit the criteria of what people are asking for. He stands up for his company when he feels people make unfair statements. He takes personal responsibility when someone has unsatisfactory customer service.
> 
> ...


Well, now who's looking like the forum police? Everyone has a right to their own opinions. I disagree with most of the above post, which is my right.

Thanks for the comparison to MonoGod, but I'm not in his league and don't aspire to go there.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Same old haters show up on every BD thread. I bought two bike and a frame I am very happy with BD.

PM me if you have any questions. I'm not duking out with monoloser and nobody-one know-nothing anymore. Total stooges, maybe if they actually rode they'd know something about bikes.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> ...Thanks for the comparison to MonoGod, but I'm not in his league and don't aspire to go there.


Have you taken a close look at yourself lately? No, I mean a real close look :thumbsup:


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Why do you feel you have jump in and deny and refute every statement made on MTBR that you think might be negative to your business? This is a forum, both negative and positive statements will be made. A consensus will come out. Are you afraid of that truth?
> 
> As a "Bike Industry Leader" you should let us "little" people have our discussions.


Discussions are great
I love them
And I do not think most readers mind having a few industry insiders included

And as a poster here; I feel it is my responsibility to point out statements that are completely incorrect when I see them

When I post an opinion; I try to remember to qualify {I think, seems to me, I beleive, etc}
Some on the other hand just Post something that is opinion as if it's a fact. I feel it is good for those with the facts to clear that up.

Example; I have seen people post that Kinesis will sell frames at different levels of QC for different prices. THIS IS FALSE. I have seen posts that say Sunrise will sell frames that are 'seconds'. THIS IS FALSE. --- I think it is good for someone who knows the facts to correct these type of statements.

I have by chance seen false statements about our competitors; and I have posted corrections on those too. I do not read every thread on RBR, MTBR, or BF; but I am sure if I did I could spend plenty of time pointing out opinions that fly in the face of the facts.
And I wish other industry OEM types would come on these forums and post as much as they could.

I think the truth can help all cyclists. Lots of choices out there; knowledge is useful.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

bikesdirect said:


> OK - I'll bite
> 
> Actually most cyclists when they upgrade do not sell their bikes {I suggest you never sell a bike you like]
> 
> ...


Hmmm that's just sad that people are uninformed enough to pay more for a used bike than what the price paid for it was, but I guess a sucker is born every minute. No bash on moto or BD, but anyone who would blatantly buy a used bike for more than they could get it brand new is just deserving of getting bent over.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Perhaps you're just not very smart?*



Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Well, now who's looking like the forum police? Everyone has a right to their own opinions. I disagree with most of the above post, which is my right.
> 
> Thanks for the comparison to MonoGod, but I'm not in his league and don't aspire to go there.


It's okay to not be smart. Some people can't do anything about that. Where in my previous post did I suggest that the moderators should take some sort of action against you or that you're breaking some sort of forum rules that I think you should be held accountable for in this post?

It is your right to disagree with anything, no matter how ignorant you come across when you do so.

You're holding MonoGod in some sort of esteem? Okay.

BTW: You still haven't responded to my other link from someone "blantantly trying to sell someone" a bike they asked about. Perhaps it's not that big a deal because it's not Mike, who your internet pal, MonoGod doesn't care for?


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

DrNickels said:


> Hmmm that's just sad that people are uninformed enough to pay more for a used bike than what the price paid for it was, but I guess a sucker is born every minute. No bash on moto or BD, but anyone who would blatantly buy a used bike for more than they could get it brand new is just deserving of getting bent over.


It is odd; however sad maybe overstating it.

Most common I have seen is someone buys a bike like a Vent Noir {tiagra/105 road} for $695 and uses it a year and decides to upgrade. Maybe our price goes up. Then they figure since it is list is way higher and comparable other bikes are way higher; owner puts it on ebay or craigs list for $795 and it sells. {still cheaper than a new similar Trek}

Or on some bikes; like KILO TT we run out for over a month and used ones can then bring $400 [when new ones are $350] -- of course, here again bike with same specs in store maybe $700 - so $400 for a six month old clean one can look like a deal.

And sometimes its a location and market thing. Right now; we have a guy buying 10 or more SS/FG everyweek and driving them around to colleges and selling them for a nice profit over what he pays us. And why not? still a deal for the buyers; and he sets them up - which on SS/FG bikes takes like 10 or 12 minutes.

Markets are a funy thing; and each buyer is a bit different
But as long as they are getting on a nice bike and using it; I think it is great.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

bikesdirect said:


> It is odd; however sad maybe overstating it.
> 
> Most common I have seen is someone buys a bike like a Vent Noir {tiagra/105 road} for $695 and uses it a year and decides to upgrade. Maybe our price goes up. Then they figure since it is list is way higher and comparable other bikes are way higher; owner puts it on ebay or craigs list for $795 and it sells. {still cheaper than a new similar Trek}
> 
> ...


I guess I am just old-fashioned and don't believe I should charge a person more than I paid for an item, especially when that item has no warranty and is used.

Oh well to each their own.


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

DrNickels said:


> I guess I am just old-fashioned and don't believe I should charge a person more than I paid for an item, especially when that item has no warranty and is used.
> 
> Oh well to each their own.


I wish you had a clean 1966 Jag XKE that you purchased new and wanted to sell to me!
LOL

Lots of stuff around going for more used than it did new
my wife sometimes goes to estate sales and buys stuff
and then sells it
She bought a old 'cheese doom' once for about $300 that turned out to be worth $10,000
Kinda crazy
And once she picked up a used Cannondale ATB for $75 at a yard sale and sold on ebay for $800 -- go figure

And I have an employee who's wife does nothing but buy used stuff at estate sales and sell the stuff in a shop and online. She earns a good living and has for years on the market 'slack' between value at one location vs another location.

So I find it impressive that we have several young guys out there that have figured out they can buy a bike from us and turn around and sell it for a little profit; especially if they do the setup. These guys are showing the energy that it takes to get started in their own business. I bet some will end up evoling into bike shops.


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## agabriel (Jul 3, 2007)

If you look at what Mike is selling I would guess he is making a healthy 40% - 50% profit on each bike. I just looked over what he is selling and depending on the quantity of bikes he sells I bet he gets great prices from the component manufacturers. So in my mind there are two types of folks buying his bikes 1) Folks who want build kits 2) Folks who are looking for a solid deal. Either way they contribute to the bottom line and I personally haven't read many complaints. That would lead me to believe he does a good business, I don't see why so many folks are aggravated he skips the LBS... He seems to be making a good contribution to the economy; I think he deserves a pat on the back.

Anthony


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## schmitty8225 (Oct 2, 2008)

According to the BBB Bikesdirect has a C-. You could possibly get a great bike with no problems or be loaded with problems and down a lot of money.


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

schmitty8225 said:


> According to the BBB Bikesdirect has a C-. You could possibly get a great bike with no problems or be loaded with problems and down a lot of money.


if you're going fail to tell the truth do it on something thats not so easily checked out...
http://www.dallas.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=50&bbb=0875&firm=90124596

BBB gives bikesdirect.com an "A"

now it is possible you are speaking of the bikes direct LBS that are around but that isn't the same thing now is it?

that being said i've never done buisness with BD or mike... but I consider it offten...


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## schmitty8225 (Oct 2, 2008)

3 days ago they had a C-.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

bikesdirect said:


> I wish you had a clean 1966 Jag XKE that you purchased new and wanted to sell to me!
> LOL
> 
> Lots of stuff around going for more used than it did new
> ...


We aren't talking vintage cars or antiques though. we're talking about a bike that is used. A piece of sports equipment that has been through God knows what. I guess though your info just proves there is a sucker born every minute.

As an honest person I could never sell a used bike for more than I paid for it, but then again I use that same kind of honesty in my everyday job of hearing aids. As I said to each their own.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

^ you should never start your own business, you'd fail miserably.. you're not grasping a very very fundamental concept of capitalism and free market. 

if everyones selling a similar quality used bike in your area for 500, and you're selling it for 400.. but you paid 300.. what on earth is wrong with that? everyone wins. theres not a single thing dishonest about that.. and the buyer certainly isnt a sucker.

you pay more for EVERYTHING in your lbs than what they paid! even lbs's sell used bikes, and you better believe they're making something on them.


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## agabriel (Jul 3, 2007)

DrNickels,
I disagree with your statement that someone is dishonest because they sell a bike/widget for than they paid for it. As long as the widget is actually in as advertised condition I don't see anything dishonest in it. I have sold more than a few computers (new & used) and a few pieces of stereo electronics for more than I paid for it, the item was always in as advertised condition and people were thrilled to get it.

Anthony



> "As an honest person I could never sell a used bike for more than I paid for it"


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

exactly... i've bought cars and sold them for more then I paid... i've also bought cars and parted them out for SIGNIFICANTLY more then I paid...

did the same in paintball... i'd buy a bunch of stuff from somone getting out of the sport and keep what I wanted/needed and sell the rest of the things... when i sold everything from a deal I had i more then doubled my money... 

if I sell my karate monkey i'll easily make some money when I sell it... i got a great deal, the guy who sold it was happy with what he got... but he could have easily gotten more...

thats part of me putting in the time to find the good deals... and thats all on the 2nd hand market


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

DrNickels said:


> We aren't talking vintage cars or antiques though. we're talking about a bike that is used. A piece of sports equipment that has been through God knows what. I guess though your info just proves there is a sucker born every minute.
> 
> As an honest person I could never sell a used bike for more than I paid for it, but then again I use that same kind of honesty in my everyday job of hearing aids. As I said to each their own.


I do not think a person who puts his used bike up for auction is dishonest if the bidding drives the price over his cost. We see this happen on Motobecanes a fair amount; especially when we are out of the bike.

My feeling is: it is not fair to say it is dishonest to offer an item for sale and take what people are willing to pay. I beleive in a free market of willing buyers and sellers; just as Adam Smith described.

Choices are great; I am glad people have them


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

agabriel said:


> DrNickels,
> I disagree with your statement that someone is dishonest because they sell a bike/widget for than they paid for it. As long as the widget is actually in as advertised condition I don't see anything dishonest in it. I have sold more than a few computers (new & used) and a few pieces of stereo electronics for more than I paid for it, the item was always in as advertised condition and people were thrilled to get it.
> 
> Anthony


And that is fine that you disagree with me. I am just saying personally I would not do that. That's just me. To each their own. If someone wants to pay more for something than the owner paid for it then it's the buyer and seller's personal choice to do that. I am just simply saying I would not, and do not do this.


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

DrNickels said:


> And that is fine that you disagree with me. I am just saying personally I would not do that. That's just me. To each their own. If someone wants to pay more for something than the owner paid for it then it's the buyer and seller's personal choice to do that. I am just simply saying I would not, and do not do this.


LMK when you plan to sell your house... i'll happily buy it for what you paid back in the day...

;-)


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

tomsmoto said:


> ^ you should never start your own business, you'd fail miserably.. you're not grasping a very very fundamental concept of capitalism and free market.
> 
> if everyones selling a similar quality used bike in your area for 500, and you're selling it for 400.. but you paid 300.. what on earth is wrong with that? everyone wins. theres not a single thing dishonest about that.. and the buyer certainly isnt a sucker.
> 
> you pay more for EVERYTHING in your lbs than what they paid! even lbs's sell used bikes, and you better believe they're making something on them.


Actually I work for a very lucrative private practice selling hearing aids. We do not gouge our prices like many other competitors do. Trust me our business is doing quite well without gouging our customers. I totally understand free market. I totally understand capitalism. A huge difference though in a business is they usually sell new wares. They may mark up the price to make a profit, but the items aren't usually used. We sell all new hearing aids never used before. We cannot and will never sell used hearing aids to customers. We set our prices by a simple formula and it's what many other people follow.

Cost of hearing aid to our practice + price of materials to replace tubing and see pt. for follow ups and adjustments over the period of 5 years (average lifespan of a hearing aid) = final cost of hearing aid to customer

We make a enough profit to stay in business and keep our prices low.

You think selling bikes is hard? Try selling a medical device that helps people who fundamentally deny they have a problem and the item is around 5k for 2 hearing aids and insurance usually never pays a penny of the hearing aid cost.

Physicians have it easy. They prescribe drugs, majority of insurances pay for price of drugs there is no discussion of price usually.

Trust me, I know a lot about business and enjoy working with consumers.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

donalson said:


> LMK when you plan to sell your house... i'll happily buy it for what you paid back in the day...
> 
> ;-)


Hate to disappoint you, but I doubt I will ever own a house. Med school loans are quite expensive.


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

donalson said:


> exactly... i've bought cars and sold them for more then I paid... i've also bought cars and parted them out for SIGNIFICANTLY more then I paid...


When I was working my way thru college; I often traded in used cars for share cash
I never thought I was being dishonest for flipping used cars
In fact, I think it is a service to the community and that individual capitalism is the backbone of our economy

Long Live Adam Smith
Wait - he's dead
But you know what I mean


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## RudeSechsVibe (Aug 24, 2008)

Fractional reserve banking...



bikesdirect said:


> ...is the backbone of our economy


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Ken in KC said:


> It would really help the rest of us out if you would post under the post you're responding to vs. at the end of the entire thread (hit the quote button on a specific post vs. the reply button at the top or bottom of the page).
> 
> I agree with you. There are good value bikes to be found in the $300-$900 range. They're "great" bikes for what they are: Entry to mid level mountain bikes.
> 
> They are not "the best". They are not better performers than more expensive bikes. They may be "better" for someone based on their criteria (cost consious, etc.) but they're by no means going to be this (whatever this really means):


Maybe I should make myself more clear to the OP...and to some others too. The Fantom29 Pro is THE best deal for a 29er in its price range.I don't think I'll get much argument about that. But if there IS a better deal out there, somebody please let me know.Also- to the OP: Read my thread "Why does bikes direct have to get such a bad rap?". It's a real barn burner. And before I go, I want to give props and a special shout out to bikes direct for maintaining and not changing their deal on a great bike.---zarr:thumbsup:


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

Enough about selling used stuff though, continue the debate on motobecane bikes and other bikes. Sorry to hijack the thread.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Okay, fanboy...*



zarr said:


> Maybe I should make myself more clear to the OP...and to some others too. The Fantom29 Pro is THE best deal for a 29er in its price range.I don't think I'll get much argument about that. But if there IS a better deal out there, somebody please let me know.Also- to the OP: Read my thread "Why does bikes direct have to get such a bad rap?". It's a real barn burner. And before I go, I want to give props and a special shout out to bikes direct for maintaining and not changing their deal on a great bike.---zarr:thumbsup:


Have you not been paying attention? There is no "the best" because price doesn't really matter. The fit of the bike is more important than the price. A $500 bike that fits properly will always be better for riding on trail than a $5,000 bike that doesn't fit properly.

Making gross, generalized statements doesn't help people trying to obtain information about bike purchases.

The bike you bought may be a great bike for you. It may be a great bike for the price. But it's not "the best" of anything. No bike is.


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## cronic (Apr 27, 2008)

applecafe said:


> I'm looking for some advice. I need a new bike and have an old Gary Fisher Marlin (2001). Looking to upgrade bike, especially components. The motobecane has some bikes with XTR, XT an SLX components at a great price....the rest of the components look decent as well. Anyone have any legitimate info on motobecane?


I can share with you my experience with bikesdirect. I decided I wanted to get into bikes in may of this year. I spent a lot of time searching forums and doing a lot of reading. I to turned up bikes direct and was suspicious of the low price with high quality components. I emailed back and forth with them numerous times and was pleased with their prompt responses. I also went to numerous local bike shops and talked to a lot of people about bikes and brands. Some of the lbs were very helpful, while others were only tiring to sale me what they had in stock and not what was best for me. After a lot of thought I decided that the fantom pro 29 was the best value I could find by a considerable margin. I have had to have the derailleur adjusted by a very nice lbs that I found on a couple of occasions and am thinking of trying out a xtr rear derailleur and see if that will work better for me. I should also mention that since this lbs was so friendly I have spent at least 600.00 with them on accessories and things. The only issues I have had with the bike is that the rear juicy 3 caliper piston broke, not an issues with motobecane or bikes direct. I contacted bikesdirect and they said send it back and we will fix it. You really can't ask for more than that. 6 months and about 1000 miles later I could not be more pleased with my bike. Is it cutting edge frame design? No, do I really need that, probably not. It works great for me and I ride everyday rain or shine. I would purchase from them again and would recommend them to someone looking for a good bike. In the end riding bikes is superposed to be fun, not about getting hung up on name brands.


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## middy (Jun 11, 2008)

Wait... riding bikes is fun?


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> I never thought I was being dishonest for flipping used cars


You are a Used Car Salesman!!!

I thought so.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

zarr said:


> Maybe I should make myself more clear to the OP...and to some others too. The Fantom29 Pro is THE best deal for a 29er in its price range.I don't think I'll get much argument about that. But if there IS a better deal out there, somebody please let me know.Also- to the OP: Read my thread "Why does bikes direct have to get such a bad rap?". It's a real barn burner. And before I go, I want to give props and a special shout out to bikes direct for maintaining and not changing their deal on a great bike.---zarr:thumbsup:


The Raleigh XXIX is a pretty good bargin. I was going to get the Motobecane Outcast 29 and while its a an excelent bike for the price (400.00) I'm thinking of going with the Raleigh XXIX 29 instead, I found a 07 model for (599.00) and I like the frame material better (cro-mo) and the parts are a step or two better.

The Moto comes with cantilever brakes and I think I would like to get disc brales instead if possible and I've been looking at several brands including Redlines, Marins, and one or two others and the Raleigh seems to be the best bang for the buck and also since its an 07 model. Most other companys I've looked at want (700.00) or more for a disc equipped 29er (which is a wee bit out of what I want to spend) Or, I might just try to find something used on ebay.

If anyone knows where I can get a sweet deal on a disc equipped 29er for (600.00) or less post up please.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*sigh...*



jeffgothro said:


> The Raleigh XXIX is a pretty good bargin. I was going to get the Motobecane Outcast 29 and while its a an excelent bike for the price (400.00) I'm thinking of going with the Raleigh XXIX 29 instead, I found a 07 model for (599.00) and I like the frame material better (cro-mo) and the parts are a step or two better.
> 
> The Moto comes with cantilever brakes and I think I would like to get disc brales instead if possible and I've been looking at several brands including Redlines, Marins, and one or two others and the Raleigh seems to be the best bang for the buck and also since its an 07 model. Most other companys I've looked at want (700.00) or more for a disc equipped 29er (which is a wee bit out of what I want to spend) Or, I might just try to find something used on ebay.
> 
> If anyone knows where I can get a sweet deal on a disc equipped 29er for (600.00) or less post up please.


A decent pair of disc brakes will run you $200. Low end discs are put on bikes to catch people who think that discs are better than V's across the board. Low end discs don't function as well as decent V's.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

$600 for a geared 29er is probably going to lead you to a Fantom29 (Dart3 fork is the weakness on that one), and $800 to a Fantom29 Pro. I don't have much knowledge of single speed 29ers. Try putting "Motobecane blog" in the mtbr search at the top of the page and check out some threads. If you're going to use mechanical discs, go with Avid BB7s.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Thanks.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Ken in KC said:


> Have you not been paying attention? There is no "the best" because price doesn't really matter. The fit of the bike is more important than the price. A $500 bike that fits properly will always be better for riding on trail than a $5,000 bike that doesn't fit properly.
> 
> Making gross, generalized statements doesn't help people trying to obtain information about bike purchases.
> 
> The bike you bought may be a great bike for you. It may be a great bike for the price. But it's not "the best" of anything. No bike is.


Thanks for correcting me. Fit is important. Component quality is too. You have to weigh things and make compromises sometimes. Frame fit to me heads the list. I was trying to get the best bang for buck deal for the OP. Just make sure the frame fits.


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> You are a Used Car Salesman!!!
> 
> I thought so.


I have sold both new and used cars
amoung other things

I see no shame in that
Are you painting all people who sell used cars with a board brush?

This type of thinking leads to evil behavior; you should be careful


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

DrNickels said:


> Enough about selling used stuff though, continue the debate on motobecane bikes and other bikes. Sorry to hijack the thread.


Actually; it is a good comparison
I like it

Often customers are faced with the choice of a USED Trek or Specialized with say Deore or Sora VS a NEW Motobecane with the same level components at that same price.

Good example might be a USED Trek 1000 VS a NEW Motobecane Record - both at $550 to $600.

I think this is a real world comparison that is worth discussion.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> Actually; it is a good comparison
> I like it
> 
> Often customers are faced with the choice of a USED Trek or Specialized with say Deore or Sora VS a NEW Motobecane with the same level components at that same price.
> ...


Yup, thats kinda the debate I got going on...I can buy a brand new Moto w/ most of the parts I want or buy used bike (or last years model) that has nearly ALL the parts I want for the same or a bit more.

Case in point.

Moto










Raleigh










Hmmmmm, decisions, decisions? (prolly the Raleigh, it cost a couple hundred more - but I want the disc brakes and prefer cro-mo over aluminum.)


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## agabriel (Jul 3, 2007)

For the same money I would go new - I think its a no brainer. You should be able to adjust the bike to fit almost anyway you need it assuming you know your size.

*I don't own or work for Moto, although a few of my friends either own or are thinking about owning one.

Does Moto come to any of the NEMBA events in NE?


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> I have sold both new and used cars
> amoung other things
> 
> I see no shame in that
> ...


No, I see no shame, but I do see where your sales tactics come from.

The only evil behavior is using a board(???) brush.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> No, I see no shame, but I do see where your sales tactics come from.
> 
> The only evil behavior is using a board(???) brush.


Hi Noobi! I think what he meant was a broad brush. ...Or was that a play on words?(like ...mtbr forum boards?)  Anyway, ...Oh nevermind. May the force be with you, especially during Christmas time. And bikesdirect--Merry Christmas to you too.---from zarr.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

zarr said:


> Hi Noobi! I think what he meant was a broad brush. ...Or was that a play on words?(like ...mtbr forum boards?)  Anyway, ...Oh nevermind. May the force be with you, especially during Christmas time. And bikesdirect--Merry Christmas to you too.---from zarr.


Hey Zarr, Merry Christmas. May you and yours have a great Holiday Season.


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## middy (Jun 11, 2008)




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## rmb2485 (Oct 7, 2008)

"Arguing on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics...even if you win, you're still retarded."


**WARNING - This post contains my opinion!**


The way I see it, you can get a Motobecane bike and a "name brand" bike with the same or equivalent components and (from what I've gather in my own research when I was looking at a Motobecane bike a couple of years ago) reasonably equivalent frames. The difference between those two bikes will be in the price and in the extras that are included in that price; a name brand bike at the bike shop down the street from you will cost twice as much as an equivalent bike from Bikes Direct, but with it you get services like test rides, setup, free tune ups, etc. If you're short on cash, buy the Motobecane and if you want service and a smile to go along with your new bike, buy the name brand, but there is nothing wrong with either.

Every business is in it to make money, not to make the world a better place. Bikes Direct does it by having low overhead and their prices reflect that. Your LBS does it by providing all the services you could ever dream of, and their prices reflect that. They are essentially selling to two different sets of customers with two different sets of wants and needs, but I bet they are each turning about the same profit doing it.

And as for Bikes Direct responding in this thread - why should they not be able to speak in a public forum just like the rest of us? If I walked into my LBS and started telling other customers false "facts" about the name brand bikes, should the employees there not correct me? I'd say Bikes Direct has contributed more to the actual topic of this thread that a lot of the other posts in here, including this one.


(And no, I do not work for Bikes Direct, I just hate when people spout their opinion as fact and then get offended when others question them. Let the flaming begin...)


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## TreeTalker (Dec 29, 2007)

:madmax: :madmax: :madmax: :madmax: :madmax: :madmax: 

It was the only flames I could find.... HighJack over, let the kids / childish adults get back to bickering.

Definition of "Bickering"....Petty quarreling. Usually considered a childish behaviour, although often applied to adults.


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## ecrock45 (Jan 7, 2007)

rmb2485 said:


> "Arguing on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics...even if you win, you're still retarded."


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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