# New Specialized Turbo Creo e-road bike - 27lb



## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

https://www.velonews.com/2019/07/bikes-and-tech/first-ride-specialized-turbo-creo-sl_497261

This bike is significant for a few reasons. First, Specialized apparently have developed their own proprietary motor, not adapted the Brose unit. Second, the bike weighs only 27lb, with a 28mph top end and a claimed 80 mile range from a 320wH battery. Obviously, that would be on flat ground with a tailwind. Third, there is also an optional range extender battery that fits in the seat tube water bottle cage. I believe this concept of having smaller, lighter batteries as the standard configuration and allowing for range extenders as desired is the future of eMTB as well.

From the ride reviews I have read, it does not deliver a lot of torque, instead, it delivers speed on the top end. Makes sense on a road bike. BTW, the Bosch "S" motor also sacrifices torque for speed.

Two major downsides I see: the downtube battery does not look to be removable, and neither is the motor. Fazua for the win in these two areas.

There are a couple of versions, but the "cheapest" is $9000. These are high end builds with carbon frame, Di2 and carbon wheels. I'm pretty sure there will be aluminum frame versions with lower end specs for a lot less money within a year or two.

The anti-eBike crowd is going to poop their pants. The Velonews reviewer had to make sure at the end of the review to throw in his comment that the bike isn't for HIM, oh no, he is too good for that. But others will like it. But not him. No. He is too cool.

BTW, I LMAO about the "Future Shock" headtube suspension for two reasons: Specialized made their own, absolutely terrible suspension forks back in the 90's and called them "Future Shock", so why resurrect that name? They absolutely sucked. The other is that Specialized have stolen Cannondale's "Headshok" design that they so roundly criticized around the same time they made their own crap forks.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

I just found out a fourth pretty groundbreaking advancements in the TC: Specialized designed the range extenders to be small enough to take on an airplane, and the bike can run on just the range extender batteries. Unfortunately, the main downtube battery apparently must be removed by a Specialized dealer. Huh? 

Well, we are getting a little closer to nirvana. Which is a bike powered by an array of easily removable batteries rather than just one big one, so that you can fine tune the battery weight to your actual requirements. Once we get to that point, plus have a removable motor, ebikes will be the standard. 

"The range extender plugs in to a port in the seat tube, allowing for battery swapping in less than 30 seconds. The added bonus is that the Range Extender battery solves a huge issue for e-bikes – the fact that you can’t fly with them due to battery size limitations. The Range Extender is small enough to comply with the flight regulations, so all you need to do is remove the downtube battery (at a Specialized dealer) and pack a couple Extenders for your trip.

Note: You can carry two extenders on the bike at one time, but only one may be plugged in at a time. Also – the new motor system is 48 volt vs 36 volt for previous Specialized e-bikes, meaning that the Range Extender is not backwards-compatible."


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

Pricing themselves right outta the game.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

I've had a couple of e-road bikes for a few years now and this type of bike is not appealing at all to me. Low watt/wh bikes are light because they don't have much power or available wh's of battery. I guess it is just there for a crutch when you feel you need it but does it really mask it's additional weight over the long run? 

I use my road bikes dependent on my ride goals. Want to go far? Hold the wattage to 250w and pedal in the appropriate gear and you'll burn about 10wh/mi in variable terrain averaging speeds greater than able to manually. Up it to 500w and average 15wh/mi but at a faster average speed/less miles. Just going to the store for a few items or feeling sporty and want to dog cars? Wick it up to 750w and average more like 20wh/mi @20mph+. Late for a very important date and open ground to cover fast? Select 1000w and jam on. Or choose any variety of the former.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Cody01 said:


> Pricing themselves right outta the game.


The non-ebike version of the Creo Expert($9000) is the Roubaix Expert and it has almost an identical build at $6000, so it looks like Specialized is pricing the electric technology at $3000.

Rest assured there will be a less expensive version at some point. The non-ebike Roubaix Comp is $3400, no carbon wheels, no suspension fork, and no Di2. I'm guessing next year there will be a similar Creo Comp at around $6000.

The real question is whether any of the dozens of Fazua motor eRoad bikes sold in Europe will be sold here any time soon. They are not any less expensive, but at least they would be competition. I don't think there will be a 27lb eRoad bike sold in the US in 2020 other than this one, so Specialized has a monopoly for a year.

And the real REAL question is whether we will see Specialized port the new motor/battery system to a new version of the Levo. How about a 38lb eMTB with 150mm of travel? That would be sweet. It would also be at *least* $9000.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Bigwheel said:


> I've had a couple of e-road bikes for a few years now and this type of bike is not appealing at all to me. Low watt/wh bikes are light because they don't have much power or available wh's of battery. I guess it is just there for a crutch when you feel you need it but does it really mask it's additional weight over the long run?
> 
> I use my road bikes dependent on my ride goals. Want to go far? Hold the wattage to 250w and pedal in the appropriate gear and you'll burn about 10wh/mi in variable terrain averaging speeds greater than able to manually. Up it to 500w and average 15wh/mi but at a faster average speed/less miles. Just going to the store for a few items or feeling sporty and want to dog cars? Wick it up to 750w and average more like 20wh/mi @20mph+. Late for a very important date and open ground to cover fast? Select 1000w and jam on. Or choose any variety of the former.


This bike is not going to be making many grocery runs. It is aimed at aging former racers who want to be able to do the group ride without getting dropped on every hill, or CEOs who are too busy to stay in shape for the local charity ride, but who want to do them anyway. There is no reason for this demographic to have any more power than necessary to keep them from getting dropped.

It will sell like hotcakes. The bike is not targeted to struggling bike shop employees or average Joes, it is for those who have room to put this in the garage next to their Panamera for commuting, a Cayenne Turbo for weekend trips, and a 911 for fun.

They already have a funny commercial on YouTube with Phil Liggett passing Julian Alaphilippe. I'm sure it will roll on the Tour de France coverage this week just like the ones last year with the old lady beating Peter Sagan up a hill.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

I don't think many in the US would even want this bile anyway. I was unaware they were working on something new for the Levo as the S and M are pretty new anyway.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Cody01 said:


> I don't think many in the US would even want this bile anyway. I was unaware they were working on something new for the Levo as the S and M are pretty new anyway.


The Brose motor in the Levo is fine for a first effort, but now that Bosch and Yamaha have stepped up their game, Specialized is going to have to respond. It would make no sense for them to create an entirely new, custom, and power system and use it only on road bikes. I'm guessing that the Creo is going to sell out, and that the Levo (or a new eMTB model) will be using this power system on 2021 bikes.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

I've been saying all along that ebikes will be adopted by pro riders as a training tool. Enduro and DH riders use them, and now pro road riders are using them on their rest day at the Tour de France:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tou...s-new-specialized-e-bike-on-rest-day-gallery/

It could have been an advertising thing, for sure, since the bikes were just announced and both teams using them are sponsored by Specialized. Time will tell. It is another load of bikes that have to be hauled around, and each team already has dozens. Could be more headache than it is worth.

With that said, if a rider needs to do course recon the day before a race, an ebike would be a great way to do it.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

Well I sure like my Brose S. Its ultra quiet.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Cody01 said:


> Well I sure like my Brose S. Its ultra quiet.


The Brose motors are the quietest around because they use a belt for power transfer from the motor to the output, rather than gears.

I saw a cutaway of the new Specialized system and it is all gears. The first thing I thought was that it was going to disappoint current Specialized fans because it will probably be noisier. We will have to wait to see if they directly adopt the new system to MTB or they modify it somehow. The noise doesn't really matter on a road bike, but on an eMTB motor noise is annoying. I have Bosch-powered eMTBs and the noise is my number one issue with them. I usually shut my power off completely when approaching hikers.


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## Lsx408ci (Jul 7, 2019)

honkinunit said:


> https://www.velonews.com/2019/07/bikes-and-tech/first-ride-specialized-turbo-creo-sl_497261
> 
> This bike is significant for a few reasons. First, Specialized apparently have developed their own proprietary motor, not adapted the Brose unit. Second, the bike weighs only 27lb, with a 28mph top end and a claimed 80 mile range from a 320wH battery. Obviously, that would be on flat ground with a tailwind. Third, there is also an optional range extender battery that fits in the seat tube water bottle cage. I believe this concept of having smaller, lighter batteries as the standard configuration and allowing for range extenders as desired is the future of eMTB as well.
> 
> ...


nice input/feedback, this bike isnt for everyone, but its right for me, i am short $8,000 though !


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

Cody01 said:


> I don't think many in the US would even want this bile anyway. I was unaware they were working on something new for the Levo as the S and M are pretty new anyway.


A road bike that goes further and faster with less effort? Ya...I've never heard of anyone who wants something like that. 🙄


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Battery is everything, the more the better


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

OP: what do you expect from roadies? Although, I must say that mtbr's are catching up in the snobbery dept.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Radium said:


> OP: what do you expect from roadies? Although, I must say that mtbr's are catching up in the snobbery dept.


Snobbery? The author didn't say he was too good for the bike, only that it wasn't his thing. I thought he gave a good review.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

As to this new Spec. Ed road ebike, it's amazing. And that's as light as my steel 853 road bike, well, maybe 2-3 lb.s heavier. But still, easy to lift!


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> Snobbery? The author didn't say he was too good for the bike, only that it wasn't his thing. I thought he gave a good review.


Your'e absolutely right. That's what I get for initially just looking at the pics! It was a well- written review and the authors' preference in no way came across as prejudicial.

Guess I'ma start buying me them lotto tickets....that's the only way I could afford one of these.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Sweet bikes, I’d love to buy one. Not big on the colors though.


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## stiksandstones (Oct 7, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> The Brose motor in the Levo is fine for a first effort, but now that Bosch and Yamaha have stepped up their game, Specialized is going to have to respond. It would make no sense for them to create an entirely new, custom, and power system and use it only on road bikes. I'm guessing that the Creo is going to sell out, and that the Levo (or a new eMTB model) will be using this power system on 2021 bikes.


The brose motor in my levo is second effort, and pretty damn perfect-whats more to respond?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

stiksandstones said:


> The brose motor in my levo is second effort, and pretty damn perfect-whats more to respond?


Maybe you are one of the lucky but many do not consider that cool-aid so sweet. 
Here is a riddle, why is that Specialized engine so silent?

It is not working.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Well I own the shimano steps E8000 and just recently purchased a new Levo Expert and you can tell the Levo is quieter and has more torque. They are both really good though IMO.


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## stiksandstones (Oct 7, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> I've been saying all along that ebikes will be adopted by pro riders as a training tool. Enduro and DH riders use them, and now pro road riders are using them on their rest day at the Tour de France:
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tou...s-new-specialized-e-bike-on-rest-day-gallery/
> 
> ...


What DH rider is using an ebike as a training tool?
I think some have tried them, played with them, but none are using as a training tool (to build strength OR practice DH runs). I have found riding my eMTB has ruined any fast twitch muscles for sprinting out of corners, or getting quick pop/attack on a climb.

Completely disagree with you.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

stiksandstones said:


> The brose motor in my levo is second effort, and pretty damn perfect-whats more to respond?


1) Look at the threads on this site and other ebike sites about Levo reliability issues. There are a lot of them, and if `your Levo motor or battery breaks, you are at the mercy of your Specialized dealer, whereas Bosch, Yamaha and Shimano parts are more widely available and standard.

2) The reason Specialized went to the bigger 700wh battery is because the Brose motor sucks battery faster than the current Bosch, Shimano, and Yamaha motors. Google "Levo Range" and you'll see that a lot of people only get 20-30 miles out of a Levo in Eco mode. Part of the reason is the belt drive Brose uses rather than the more efficient gears everyone else uses, including the new Specialized motor. Of course, the belt is the reason the Brose is quieter, which is the advantage. We'll have to see how the new Bosch/Yamaha motors fare as far as battery usage.

3) The Brose is pretty light and compact, but clearly, the new Specialized-designed motor is even lighter and more compact. Why would Specialized design an entire motor/controller/battery system to use only on road bikes? They wouldn't. My guess is that next year we will see a new Specialized eMTB that uses the new system. They might differentiate the new bike with a new name, and sell the Levo in parallel, or maybe they will go all in with the new system and dump the Brose altogether. Time will tell.

There is no perfect ebike motor right now.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

stiksandstones said:


> What DH rider is using an ebike as a training tool?
> I think some have tried them, played with them, but none are using as a training tool (to build strength OR practice DH runs). I have found riding my eMTB has ruined any fast twitch muscles for sprinting out of corners, or getting quick pop/attack on a climb.
> 
> Completely disagree with you.


https://electricbikeaction.com/watch-remy-absalons-tips-for-training-like-a-pro-with-an-e-bike/


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

stiksandstones said:


> What DH rider is using an ebike as a training tool?


I'm aware of pro's that are using them



stiksandstones said:


> I think some have tried them, played with them, but none are using as a training tool (to build strength OR practice DH runs)


Ya, I'm sure you're in the know of every single DH/Endruo pros training habits...



stiksandstones said:


> I have found riding my eMTB has ruined any fast twitch muscles for sprinting out of corners, or getting quick pop/attack on a climb.


Uhhhhhh, how the hell does that work? We're you getting your fast twitch training from grinding up fire roads?


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

stiksandstones said:


> I have found riding my eMTB has ruined any fast twitch muscles for sprinting out of corners, or getting quick pop/attack on a climb.
> 
> Completely disagree with you.


Aside from being heavy, an eMTB is whatever you make of it. The temptation of hitting that "+" button to the max is no excuse. For an eMTB to be a useful training tool, one must practice self-control.

If an eMTB is ruining your sprints, turn down the assist. What's the issue here?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Gutch said:


> Well I own the shimano steps E8000 and just recently purchased a new Levo Expert and you can tell the Levo is quieter and has more torque. They are both really good though IMO.


Can you please let us know wich has more range? Thanks


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I did 44miles this last weekend and still had 4-5 bars (out of 10, I believe) Around 5k' climbing. All ECO, I'm 200lbs. That's awesome range. (700wh). I'm still dialing in the Levo, but believe my Jam2 actually handles better, IMO.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

27ish pounds. that is crazy. My main road bike is made of Ti, ultegra and weighs around 22 lbs.

Now while I do have an eMTB, I don;'t feel the need for a e road bike. But my dad is going to need one soon. He's been riding 15,000 kms a year for 40 years but his heart is developing dangerous arrhythmias triggered often by his 80km rides (and he is NOT slow). So finally he is considering an e raod bike. I suggest the Giant Road-E which is only priced at around $4600cdn (which is, what, 3500usd?). The Speclzd looks cool and feature rich, but maybe twice the price and no more range is not a winner.

Also while my eMTB is a carbon framed version, I think that carbon frame is silly. Aluminum or some other metal is fine imho. (My Rocky eMTB only came in carbon last year) A couple lbs is no big deal when you've got a motor.


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## ron t (Jun 15, 2018)

BCsaltchucker said:


> 27ish pounds. that is crazy. My main road bike is made of Ti, ultegra and weighs around 22 lbs.
> 
> Now while I do have an eMTB, I don;'t feel the need for a e road bike. But my dad is going to need one soon. He's been riding 15,000 kms a year for 40 years but his heart is developing dangerous arrhythmias triggered often by his 80km rides (and he is NOT slow). So finally he is considering an e raod bike. I suggest the Giant Road-E which is only priced at around $4600cdn (which is, what, 3500usd?). The Speclzd looks cool and feature rich, but maybe twice the price and no more range is not a winner.
> 
> Also while my eMTB is a carbon framed version, I think that carbon frame is silly. Aluminum or some other metal is fine imho. (My Rocky eMTB only came in carbon last year) A couple lbs is no big deal when you've got a motor.


Have him try the Orbea Gain M30. Should be about $4,700-$5,000 cdn. It's carbon and feels pretty much like any other road bike that weighs 27-ish lbs. I just put 70 miles on one over the weekend. The power is decent and more than adequate to maintain a nice fast pace up a 10% grade. I found that my range with the 250wh battery was roughly the same as what I am getting on my 50-ish lb eMTB, which means about 28 miles and 4,000 vert. That's using the middle assist level for the most part. There's an add-on battery available now if you want more range.

The aluminum framed versions of the same bike don't feel as sporty to me, so for me I would definitely go carbon.

I've ridden the Giant and it's fast, but at 43 lbs/19.5kg it doesn't feel like a traditional road bike at all.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

notb said:


> Have him try the Orbea Gain M30. Should be about $4,700-$5,000 cdn. It's carbon and feels pretty much like any other road bike that weighs 27-ish lbs. I just put 70 miles on one over the weekend. The power is decent and more than adequate to maintain a nice fast pace up a 10% grade. I found that my range with the 250wh battery was roughly the same as what I am getting on my 50-ish lb eMTB, which means about 28 miles and 4,000 vert. That's using the middle assist level for the most part. There's an add-on battery available now if you want more range.
> 
> The aluminum framed versions of the same bike don't feel as sporty to me, so for me I would definitely go carbon.
> 
> I've ridden the Giant and it's fast, but at 43 lbs/19.5kg it doesn't feel like a traditional road bike at all.


I looked at the specs on the Gain. Looks really nice, and in the US, the M30 is about $4000, very reasonable for a carbon framed ebike.

The only thing I didn't like is the 9x135 QR rear dropouts. With all the torque from both the hubmotor and the disk brake, I would rather see a through axle, which they did use on the fork. I'm guessing the hubmotor manufacturer has not yet caught up to using through axles on a road bike. Wheel changes take a little longer, but no one cares about 15 seconds of wheel change delay on an ebike. Through axles are much safer with disk brakes, and within a year or two quick releases will disappear on any bike with disk brakes.

Quick releases are another piece of legacy bike technology that is finally fading away. I'm old enough to remember going on group rides with an "old" guy (who was younger then than I am now) who had a French road bike from the 40's with wingnuts holding the wheels on. Standard QRs were invented in the 1920's, so they have had a good run, but with disk brakes, through axles are the way to go.


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## ron t (Jun 15, 2018)

honkinunit said:


> I looked at the specs on the Gain. Looks really nice, and in the US, the M30 is about $4000, very reasonable for a carbon framed ebike.
> 
> The only thing I didn't like is the 9x135 QR rear dropouts. With all the torque from both the hubmotor and the disk brake, I would rather see a through axle, which they did use on the fork. I'm guessing the hubmotor manufacturer has not yet caught up to using through axles on a road bike. Wheel changes take a little longer, but no one cares about 15 seconds of wheel change delay on an ebike. Through axles are much safer with disk brakes, and within a year or two quick releases will disappear on any bike with disk brakes.
> 
> Quick releases are another piece of legacy bike technology that is finally fading away. I'm old enough to remember going on group rides with an "old" guy (who was younger then than I am now) who had a French road bike from the 40's with wingnuts holding the wheels on. Standard QRs were invented in the 1920's, so they have had a good run, but with disk brakes, through axles are the way to go.


The motor is in the rear hub drive, so a through axle is not possible there. The motor needs something to push against, and with a through axle it would just spin. I get your point though, which is why a mid-drive has an advantage there.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

notb said:


> The motor is in the rear hub drive, so a through axle is not possible there. The motor needs something to push against, and with a through axle it would just spin. I get your point though, which is why a mid-drive has an advantage there.


I disagree that a through axle is impossible with a hubmotor. They could use a torque arm, or they could clamp the axle in the dropouts. In fact, early bicycle through axles (I had a 1998 Rock Shox Boxxer for example) clamped the through axle into the dropout rather than having the quick release type levers used now. They could certainly do it, and I'm guessing their lawyers are eager for it to happen ASAP!


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

Well, I ended up picking up a Creo SL Comp Carbon to compliment my 2019 Levo Expert. I really dig the Creo so far.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

AGarcia said:


> Well, I ended up picking up a Creo SL Comp Carbon to compliment my 2019 Levo Expert. I really dig the Creo so far.


Great to hear. I was on the fence about the Creo aluminum model myself. My shop sells Specialized and Cannondale and they urged me to consider the Synapse Neo over the Creo. I ended up taking their advice and 600 miles later, I'm still digging my Synapse Neo for all my distance adventures.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

Battery said:


> Great to hear. I was on the fence about the Creo aluminum model myself. My shop sells Specialized and Cannondale and they urged me to consider the Synapse Neo over the Creo. I ended up taking their advice and 600 miles later, I'm still digging my Synapse Neo for all my distance adventures.


Nice! One aspect of the Neo I really like is the 2x crankset. While I'm not a fan of front derailleurs, I think the 1x on the Creo is a little limiting on a road bike here in SoCal where you might flats one day and mountains the next.

I recently swapped 11-42T cassette a 10-42T cassette (I had a spare XX1 cassette in my parts bin). I ended up having to swap the Freehub from an HG (shimano) to an XD (sram) as well to make the cassette work (the hubs are unlabeled, but are made by Formula). And I've ordered a 10-46 cassette (from Garbaruk) to try that out as well. I've got lots of steep climbs in the area, and I often ride with non e-bike riding friends. So having a lower gear will be good overall.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

This application for e-bikes makes a lot more sense to me personally and would seem to make the sport safer as it's more reasonable to maintain road speeds and no loss in rider output.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Battery said:


> Great to hear. I was on the fence about the Creo aluminum model myself. My shop sells Specialized and Cannondale and they urged me to consider the Synapse Neo over the Creo. I ended up taking their advice and 600 miles later, I'm still digging my Synapse Neo for all my distance adventures.


My interest is the SuperSix EVO Neo. Rear hub drive and a more race like geo. I prefer the race-style geo vs the endurance geo. I just hope they have an extender battery you can attach. I won't be in the market until the beginning of 2021, but I like what I'm seeing.


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## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

Bump for ownership feedback. Anyone using their Turbo Creo off-road?


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