# CX Tubeless setup thread



## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

What works and what doesn't in terms of tubeless setup, tire/rim combo, rim strip, tape etc.

So far I've used Hutchinson Piranha UST 34C on Stan's NoTubes Crest rims w/ yellow tape and Stan's goop and worked flawlessly over last season, with pressure down to 40psi.

Got a set of Raven's 35C, again tubeless ready, so I have no doubt they'll work ok, but selection of Tubeless ready tires pretty much ends there.

I plan to experiment with Kenda Kwick 32C and 34C and see how ti goes.

Anybody else playing with tubeless with good results?
ZT


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

i tried to do tubeless (Mavic Krysirium wheels, Specialized and Kenda tires) but found that pressures had to be so high to keep from burping that it wasn't worth it.

gave up on tubeless, but i will admit that i didn't have stans rims and my tire selection was limited.


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## freeheel (Sep 27, 2005)

I'm running stans arch with schwalbe marathon extreme. One of the tires is constantly weeping a bit of sealant but I only need to add air about once/wk so it doesn't seem like a big deal. Not sure why that happening on one tire and not the other.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

Marco,

I've done ghetto tubeless on a number of different tires (Ritchey Speed Max, Conti's, WTB Pathways), but found the Hutchinson Bulldog up front and the Piranha in back is a SWEET set-up. I raced those last year and they worked like a charm. 

They just don't last very long, especially if you ride a lot of pavement, or in our case the hard packed "dirty asphalt" we call San Jose trails. 

Right now I have fatties on my bike: Continental CX (700 X 45) knobby in front and a Ritchey Speed Max Pro (700 X 42) in back; tubes filled with sealant for the goat heads.


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## Larry_Sellers (Sep 1, 2011)

After a little trial and error I set up a pair of Ksyrium SL's with a Michelin Mud 2 and Jet Combo. They've been holding air since last Saturday so I think I might give them a shot this weekend. 

The magic ingredient was doing 2 layers of Stan's tape to build up the inside of the rims. The tires wouldn't seat without it. Once that was in place the tires seated right up with the help of some soapy water. Put 2 ounces of Stan's sealant inside each tire and that took care of a couple spots where air was leaking. 

I originally tried Cafe Latex but didn't have any luck with sealing leaks.


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

I wouldn't ride anything but Stan's rims, but I'm paranoid about blowing tires off the rims.
The Piranha are great, except for wearing out quickly on pavement, haven't tried Bulldog. I do a lot of commute miles to work and about 50%of it is on pavement.

Tried to put on the Kenda Kwiker 32C, they seem more durable, especially with the DTC. The tire is super tight on the Crest Rims, which is good, but a single layer of yellow tape didn't do the trick so I'll be trying for two.

I''ve heard of people having good luck with the Ksiriums and Michelin.
I only drink Cafe Latte, never put in my tires


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## danK (Jan 15, 2004)

I will attempt ghetto tubeless on the super tight speedmax pro 32 next week. They were so tight getting on I bet they'll work. Hopeful. Rims are Alex Race 28 Pro.

The speed king 35 will not work. Too loose.

A set of Ultegra WH-6700 is my last resort but right now I'm having fun not caring about my Alex Pro set with tubes.


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## Crosstown Stew (Aug 16, 2008)

You guys doing ghetto setup... What tube size do you use? A 650c or even a 26" mtb since I'm cutting it down anyway? Running ghetto on my mtb without any problems and was thinking about trying it out on cx with a set of Ksyriums.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

Crosstown Stew said:


> You guys doing ghetto setup... What tube size do you use? A 650c or even a 26" mtb since I'm cutting it down anyway? Running ghetto on my mtb without any problems and was thinking about trying it out on cx with a set of Ksyriums.


20" tube.

New found forearm training regimen is added benefit


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## marty_hd (Oct 26, 2005)

Had good results with Hutchinson Bulldogs and Piranhas using Salsa Delgado Cross rims and 26" tubes set up ghetto tubeless and Crossmax 29er rims with Stans tape. Seemingly low pressures were possible, down to the tire-squirm range and the beads held.

I had OK results with Geax Mezcal Cross tires going Ghetto tubeless with Salsa Delgado Cross but they don't grip the rims nearly as snug as their Saguero 29er big brothers. The Mexcal needed high pressures to keep from burping.

Used Maxxis Razes tires never sealed tubeless for me.

Cafe Latex was good but did not seal large punctures, similar holes (within reason) were sealed by Stans, so I ended up going with Stans over Cafe Latex.


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

I raced a full CX season last year on Stan's Crest rims set up tubeless with minimal burping issues.....and when I finally did get a burp that led to a flat, it was in the biggest race..

for my local Sacramento series, I primarily ran Raven's for the first few races, then switched over to Michelin Mud 2's as the season wore on. I would use one 'cup' of Stan's fluid in each tire, and the Raven's never ever burped. The Mud 2's were also generally fine, but I burped one badly at CX Nationals in Bend on the first lap of the SS race on the very first lap which knocked me out of the race. I'm pretty sure my pressure was too low when that happened. I would generally run PSI in the upper 20's, and for that Bend race, I was using a borrowed pump that wasn't very accurate and I think I was too low. 

One thing about the Crest's, is that they have a wider inner rim cavity as compared to most other XC oriented MTB rims, and of course CX/road specific clincher rims as well. So this would spread the tire out a bit wider and decrease the sidewall height. With MTB tires, it obviously doesn't matter so much, but with narrower CX tires, the decreased sidewall height can possibly lead to rim dings and burps if you hit ruts too or rocks too hard. In my case in Nationals when I burped, I was plowing through a deep mud puddle and felt my rim ding something in the water. I was leaving quite the trail of Stan's goo around that muddy course after that.......


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Sounds like very low pressure to me, I'm pretty sure you are a lot lighter than me, but I run that pressure on 2.1-2.4 tires, not 32C. Do you see an advantage of any kind running so low pressure?

I usually don't trust the pump gauge, have a digital one that seems to be pretty accurate.
I take the Raven doesn't do too good in super muddy conditions, right?


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## CB2 (May 7, 2006)

Last year I had a terrible time trying to set up Sun EQ21s tubeless, and finally gave up. I did have success with the ghetto split tube method (24" tube) on Salsa Delgado Cross rims w/ 34mm Panaracer Cinder X tires.

I just successfully got the Sun EQ21s to work though this year (this past Friday actually). I used Panaracer 31mm Crossblaster tires Stan's 29'er rim strips, and added a layer of Velox® tape to the rim. The smaller tire size and thicker rim tape made all the difference (tighter fit) and they aired up like champs.

Gave them a good test ride yesterday and was impressed. I bombed a rocky descent w/o issue only to come up on a group of about 8 riders from a local club who had just suffered multiple punctures on the same descent on their cx bikes.


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## Repo (Feb 26, 2009)

*Brake set up*

I'm currently building a bike with Stans Alphas and disk hubs to have the option of running disk. I run crest tubeless on my mountain bike with no trouble. I'm curious if those of you using crest,arches, ect are running bb7's ? I'm going to be running trp cx8.4 for now. I'm going to try tubeless with the Schwalbe marathon as a starter.


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Repo said:


> I'm currently building a bike with Stans Alpahs and disk hubs to have the option of running disk. I run crest tubeless on my mountain bike with no trouble. I'm curious if those of you using crest,arches, ect are running bb7's ? I'm going to be running trp cx8.4 for now. I'm going to try tubeless with the Schwalbe marathon as a starter.


I got the Alphas 340 with 3.30 hubs which I'm using as a road wheelset (tubed) and Crests on ZTR as CX: both running happily with Avid BB7


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## mtbkerr (May 5, 2008)

I am excited to go into another successful season with Fulcrum's with Stan's rim strip, taped and sidewalls of Schwalbe Racing Ralph's glued with a layer of Continental tubular glue for burp-prevention. 

27lbs for the super-slop, 33-35 or so for everything else. I there was ever a leak, Stan's fixed it before I even knew. 

I like the tire in enough conditions that the hassle of switching tires doesn't exist. About 1/2 way through the season I'll swap front and rear. The glue is tacky and re-sticks nicely without having to apply more.

Love the set-up!


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Got the Kenda Kwicker 32c sealed in one second on Crest rim, two layers of yellow tape 21mm. Test ride in the morning.


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## need4gforce (Sep 12, 2009)

Alpha 340 and Chris King hubs on the way! NoTubes has not let me down yet on my MTB so my Santa Cruz Stigmata is going to be one of my sickest builds!


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## Johnny K (Mar 14, 2005)

Arch rims, yellow tape, and Mud2s. They sealed up instantly, held pressure overnight, felt good on a neighborhood test ride. Hopefully a good sign of their future reliability.


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## Crosstown Stew (Aug 16, 2008)

Ksyriums setup ghetto with 24" tube and stan's, continential cx speed 35, Continental Bicycle -Cyclocross Speed

Went on easily enough and setup fine without any leaks from around the bead, but there are tons of small holes in the sidewalls of these tires, probably 20-30 on each side for both tires. Had to use 2 scoops of stan's in each wheel.

It's only been 15 hrs so don't know if these will hold air over time but for now they're fine. Will used a 20" tube next time, the 24" isn't tight enough for my liking but does work okay if you already have them.

Edit: After about 30 hours they didn't hold, added more stan's and re-set-up for 24hrs and they didn't hold. From other threads I've heard you sometimes have to build up the centers with some yellow tape so going to try that next time but for now going back to tubes so I can ride.


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## pwork (Apr 16, 2008)

Alpha's with ravens on a customers bike and I'm currently running some schwalbe RaRa on crests. This setup took some love during the setup due to holes in the sidewall, but has held fine for over a month. Last year I ran bulldogs on kinlin 30's.


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## sprocketjockey9 (Jul 18, 2006)

I set up a pair of new Clement PDX on magic axsium with the Stan's rim strip & sealant last night. Left the current rim strip for the wheels in place.

Took all of 20 seconds per wheel to inflate with the compressor, then brought the pressure up to 80 with floor pump to set the bead (only needed to do it on 1 tire). Still hard as a rock this am and ready to rip.

Must say those clement's are pretty dang big for 33's (at least much larger than my WTB Cross Wolf & Kenda sm8's). Looking forward to running the setup this weekend


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## Comanche (Dec 17, 2007)

Last weekend I had a Maxis Raze up font and a kenda small block in back set up on American Classic 29er rims. The Maxis burped twice the first time leaving me with about 10psi, and the second time going totally flat. I read on a CX website that the Maxis has not been a good candidate for tubeless conversion. 

I am now trying Kenda Small blocks on Mavic Aksium rims. I used two layers of stan's tubeless tape. So far so good, but I am running 40psi a a starting point.


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## Phatpants (Jun 4, 2010)

Running Stan's Alpha Cyclocross wheels with Specialized captain cx tubeless tires. Have about 200 miles on the tires so far and they are performing flawlessly between 35-40 psi, and they inflated easily with a floor pump. Gonna try running lower pressure today to see if they burp.


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## sprocketjockey9 (Jul 18, 2006)

Well, my first race went well with Clement PDX set up on Mavic Aksium's with a rim-strip. Ran them at about 35 ish psi. Though the course was predominately dirt and no tight corners to have any sidewall flex.

This past saturday was a different story, much tighter corners and a bit more technical terrain. Set my tires up at about 32 psi. Rolled the front one of the rim on a curb rolling to the start line, rolled the rear on a tight corner on the 1st lap. Not sure if it was the lower pressure/additional side load or if the tires have broken in and are a little flexier. Going to give em another chance and reset them up at higher pressure 40+ and see if they can still hold during the group ride tomorrow am. If not, who's sell some tubulars?


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## uncreative (Apr 1, 2004)

does anyone else use tubular glue + stans on clincher rims? I've seen this mentioned a few times and am curious how well this works.


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## CNC Scott (Apr 18, 2011)

CX mag has an interesting article here http://www.cxmagazine.com/going-tubeless-cyclocross-tires-racing-recommendations


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## Whambat (Jul 30, 2006)

I'm getting close to giving up on my gorilla tape-ghetto tubeless setup (Easton EA50 wheels with hutchinson Piranahs and clement pdxs). It works great on trails and on all my training rides but it has failed me twice big time in races (putting the record at 2 out of 3 races for the year). The issue only seems to be there on really tight and bumpy turns and only on my rear tire. There might only be one turn on course that I have an issue with, but once it burps out enough pressure once, then it keeps losing pressure elsewhere. Maybe a little more pressure would help, but then I'm back at my tubed pressure. The tubular glue idea might be worth the try, but I'm not sure if it's worth the effort to experiment with another failure in a race. First failure, it was on the last turn, so it only cost me a top ten spot. This past weekend (when I finally got a call-up), it took me from the top 5 and put me in 88th, as I had to run in the last 1/2 mile or so.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

Non-UST Bulldogs with Stans @40PSI,

DNF averted:


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## kmancrx (Nov 15, 2009)

Anyone have any luck with Challenge Fangos or Panaracer crossblasters? Was thinking of going split tube ghetto.


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## CB2 (May 7, 2006)

kmancrx said:


> Anyone have any luck with Challenge Fangos or Panaracer crossblasters? Was thinking of going split tube ghetto.


I had success with Crossblasters on Velocity Dyad and Salsa Delgado CX rims last year doing the split tube method. This year I'm using Sun EQ21 rims, with 1 layer of Velox and a Stan's rim strip.


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## kmancrx (Nov 15, 2009)

CB2 said:


> I had success with Crossblasters on Velocity Dyad and Salsa Delgado CX rims last year doing the split tube method. This year I'm using Sun EQ21 rims, with 1 layer of Velox and a Stan's rim strip.


I have velocity deep V's maybe I will give it a shot. Only thing I would loose is a 26"mtb tube and a little sealant.


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## mblock (Jan 22, 2007)

kmancrx said:


> Anyone have any luck with Challenge Fangos or Panaracer crossblasters? Was thinking of going split tube ghetto.


From what I have heard Challenge tires will not work. The high thread count poly cotton casing is susceptible to sealant's corrosive properties. Apparently the sealant will destroy the skinwall casings of those tires.....


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## vs779 (Dec 20, 2003)

ghettocruiser said:


> Non-UST Bulldogs with Stans @40PSI,
> 
> DNF averted:


Any burping issues with the Ulterga wheels?


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## kmancrx (Nov 15, 2009)

mblock said:


> From what I have heard Challenge tires will not work. The high thread count poly cotton casing is susceptible to sealant's corrosive properties. Apparently the sealant will destroy the skinwall casings of those tires.....


Thanks for the tip. The Challenges are a nice tire even tubed. They feel nice and supple.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

vs779 said:


> Any burping issues with the Ulterga wheels?


None at that pressure, and at lower pressures, none that wouldn't have pinch-flatted a tube.


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## Overkill (Mar 28, 2004)

mblock said:


> From what I have heard Challenge tires will not work. The high thread count poly cotton casing is susceptible to sealant's corrosive properties. Apparently the sealant will destroy the skinwall casings of those tires.....


I'll be trying to convert some Clement PDX's this weekend - I'll report back and update the thread.

I've been using the bulldog's tubeless, and they work very well. They aired up with a floor pump on my mavic SLs with a rubber stan's strip.


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## need4gforce (Sep 12, 2009)

Alpha 340's with Hutchinson Pirhana rear and Bulldog front. Pumped up F42, R 48 and did a 30 mile road ride no issues. One thing is for sure. 40 psi tubless feels like 60 psi with tubes.. Ill be running 25 with ease at 200lbs : ) I love you Mr. NoTubes!!!


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## need4gforce (Sep 12, 2009)




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## kmancrx (Nov 15, 2009)

*Cross blasters mounted up great ghetto*

Mounted the Panaracer Cross blaster on a velocity deep V using a 26 inch tube. Aired up right away with an air compressor. I did a 20 mile dirt ride an I think they held air with no problem. Hooked up nicely on the corners.


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## Johnny K (Mar 14, 2005)

First race on Arches with Mud2s: excellent.

32psi front and 35 rear...I feel like I can go a good bit lower. I run 20 psi front and 23 rear in my mtb tires. Anyone else got a comparo between their cx and mtb tubeless pressures?


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## Overkill (Mar 28, 2004)

Overkill said:


> I'll be trying to convert some Clement PDX's this weekend - I'll report back and update the thread.
> 
> I've been using the bulldog's tubeless, and they work very well. They aired up with a floor pump on my mavic SLs with a rubber stan's strip.


Just an update on converting the Clement PDX to tubeless:

I used Mavic SL rims with stan's rubber rim strip and they aired up easily with my mini shop compressor (I didn't try my floor pump). I added approx. 1.75 scoops of stan's to each tire. They didn't weep or leak at all after my initial shake, but I did I ride immediately after mounting them - from my experience, this is generally a good idea to get them sealed perfectly.

I raced this setup on sunday in muddy conditions and they hooked up extremely well. These tires are in a different class compared to the bulldogs I have had on for the last couple of weeks. The casing is more supple which seems to conform much better to bumps.

In my warm-up lap I tried 25psi, but I burped the tire after a really poor mount - I suck at mounts as a general rule! For race time to be safe, I put 30psi rear and 28 front, and they performed as well as can be expected for really slick conditions. No bumps to speak of. It *appeared* I was concerning with more confidence compared to guys running tubular girffos, but that's tough to say definitely.

Note, I'm only 150 pounds, so heavier people will need to go higher.


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## kmancrx (Nov 15, 2009)

*Panaracer cross blaster update*

Ran them last night in a training race. I have them set up ghetto/split tube with stans. I ran about 40 psi as the side walls seem pretty rubbery. They performed nicely on a relatively dry course with grass, clay, cobble, 1 sand pit, roots and tons of black walnuts. So far so good.


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## 69erSycip (May 5, 2008)

Running Specialized Royal Pave wheelset, Stan's cyclocross strips, and Schwalbe Sammy Slick tires.

Spare wheelset - Salsa Delgado Cross rim, Stan's 26-inch strips, and Hutchinson Piranha tires. 

Working fine here. Sometimes one wheel will deflate sooner than the other. I keep them aired up during race season.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Two sets of Velocity A23s, set up w/ the standard 26" Stans rimstrip. One set has Hutchinson Intensives for road use, the other set has Bulldogs for 'cross use. I'm closer to 200# than I care to admit, and can run the road tires at 85-90 front/90-100 rear and the cross tires at 32-34 front/36-38 rear, no problems at all.


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## dblvanos (Mar 17, 2010)

I have a set of alpha 340 laced with dt aerolite spokes on dura ace hubs. My ibis came stock with the Michelin jets, they took a bead and held air easy with a floor pump. Last night I attempted to get a set of Rocket Ron CX tires on and they were a *****. I finally caved and headed to sears to buy a air compressor. Once I had air the front one popped right up, the rear one I had to set a tube in it and let it set for about ten minutes before I could get it to take bead. The rocket Ron sidewalls are real porous but with lots of stans they are holding air.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

i want to run a tubeless setup on my gravel road cx bike for endurance events and whatnot, will these setups take potential 80-90psi? What has been the upper limit for PSI?


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Assuming you're serious, I'll take a stab at your question: WTH would you want to run pressures that high??? 

You could go as high as 60 or so with most tires, but they'll ride really rough. No reason to go higher than 50.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

mudge said:


> Assuming you're serious, I'll take a stab at your question: WTH would you want to run pressures that high???
> 
> You could go as high as 60 or so with most tires, but they'll ride really rough. No reason to go higher than 50.


I was serious, i do alot of rides that are 150-200 miles (up to 260 miles so far) long on either Road and/or Gravel. I normally run 35c tires around 70-90 psi depending on the roads.

Make more sense now?


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> I was serious, i do alot of rides that are 150-200 miles (up to 260 miles so far) long on either Road and/or Gravel. I normally run 35c tires around 70-90 psi depending on the roads.
> 
> Make more sense now?


For commuting I have 50/50 gravel/pavement and sometimes my road rides end up on dirt, so I run my tubeless setup with Stan's rims and yellow tape + Kenda or Hutchinson up to 85psi: so far a few thousands miles (made a set of hutchinson pyton bald) and zero problems, tubeless saved me from thorns and nails that would have caused me a flat on tubes.

I don't think there is a real need to go higher, since with a 34c you get pretty good rolling resistance at that pressure and the gain on pavement sections would be negligible IMHO.

Definitely depends on your weight as well, but I think you would be fine with 35c at 70-90.

ZT


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## SunnyinCO (Feb 3, 2011)

I picked up a pair of Shimano Ultegra Tubeless ready wheels this year and mounted them with Hutchinson Piranha that I used all last year. Have some issues sealing up but once they did have been perfect. Four races so far this year with 3 being very rough and a bunch of training rides. I am no gracefully racer at 175# as I power over and through stuff and the setup has worked so far. I have been setting the rear at 40 psi and the front at 36'ish. I know that is not low psi but I get plenty of expansion of the tires when I am on the bike.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> I was serious, i do alot of rides that are 150-200 miles (up to 260 miles so far) long on either Road and/or Gravel. I normally run 35c tires around 70-90 psi depending on the roads.
> 
> Make more sense now?


I had a pretty good idea that was what you were doing, it still doesn't answer the question as to why you'd want to run pressures that high with tires that wide, tubeless no less. I'm just guessing (admittedly) but I'd guess that you passed the point of reduced rolling resistance somewhere around 60-65psi and ventured deep into the realm of decreased shock absorptions/decreased comfort once you passed 70-75psi.

Having said that, I've temporarily inflated my Hutchinson cross tires up to 80 psi just to get the bead to fully seat, didn't blow 'em off the rims. So, I suppose you could ride them that firm, not that I'd want to.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Johnny K said:


> First race on Arches with Mud2s: excellent.
> 
> 32psi front and 35 rear...I feel like I can go a good bit lower. I run 20 psi front and 23 rear in my mtb tires. Anyone else got a comparo between their cx and mtb tubeless pressures?


What is your weight? I just set up crests tubeless with mud 2s and I am trying to figure out pressure before my race sunday.

Thanks!


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

Shimano Ultegra wheels with bontrager cxo tires. No issues and no rim strips needed with those wheels just swap the valve.


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## nayr497 (Nov 9, 2011)

Only been a few weeks on mine, but loving the ride quality and feel

Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels, Hutchinson Bulldog tires, Stans No Tubes kit.


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## nayr497 (Nov 9, 2011)

Oh, and I have some Mavic CXP 33s that I was hoping to set up with some road slicks on one of my cx bikes, something like some 28 mm Continental Four Seasons.

Anyone know if I'd be able to go tubeless on this rim/tire combo?

If not, since this is my backup cx bike, I might just add some tire strips to get a bit more protection when riding on gravel/off road. I'm going to be using this bike for both around town, winter road riding, and hitting some trails.

thanks.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

setup an old Mud 2 (2005 vintage) on a Mavic open pro over the weekend -- Gorilla tape and closed cell weather stripping. The side wall was VERY porous could not get it to hold until I had 2 scoops of sealant(WSS) in and I'd shake it lay it flat and pump air in to force the sealant into the holes. Had to do several rounds of that then I rode it around the yard. When I brought it in I squeezed the side wall and was able to get it to burp. So I went back deflated it and checked to see if it was seated (didn't look like it) so I reseated it by taking it up to 55# then could not get it to burp by hand. rode some easy single track with no burping. Checked it again and could not get it to burp by hand at 37#. may give it a shot at this weekend's race. WIll try and get a rear set up the next couple of days.


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## rugman1957 (Nov 12, 2007)

*Cx tubless setup*

Iam runnung Michelin mud 2 on stans crest rims tubless with hope pro 2 hubs on my crux disk ,can run them at 26 to 28 lbs. in dirt no problem and 50 lbs. on road or hard pack.


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## JNob (Feb 18, 2011)

*Crossmax 29er/Hutchinson Piranha problem*

The set up held air great but now I can't get the tires off. They went on easy enough but I cant get a tire lever under the bead at all. Any suggestions? Could it be a vacuum problem from letting the air out? I've unscrewed the valve to try to even the pressure on the inside and outside of the tire but it didn't help. I've only got one set of wheels and I need to swap these back to MTB tires asap. Help!


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## RPG (Sep 16, 2005)

Anyone know if dt Swiss rims are tubeless able? I have a pair of 1700 CX wheels and want to try but figured I'd ask first to see if it is worth the attempt.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Looks like you guys have had some pretty good success with this. I just picked up a Kona Jake and will look at doing the gorilla tubeless on the stock wheels when I get a chance. Just was looking around and found out that Vittoria is coming out with a TNT version of the Cross XG Pro (clincher) this year. I am going to talk to my LBS about those as I love GEAX tires and have always had luck with them.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So I emailed Vittoria about the new Cross XG Pro TNT and actually got a response within a couple hours. Guy said that they are slated for March 2012 release and first shipments to the US are supposed to land in mid April. They will be $62/ea and run the standard TNT setup that is found in the GEAX TNT tires, which means they will suffer from the mounting issues found with BST bead style rims (Stan's, Sun Ringle, etc.). If the folding seal up as well as the GEAX folding then I will definitely go with those but seeing as I am looking at building a secondary set of wheels (Velocity A23, Circus Monkey HRW2 hubs and DT Swiss Comp spokes) I should not have a problem with them. I love Stan's rims though so it will come down to what my budget is at the time.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Soon as I get my Vittoria Cross XG Pros I am going to give this a shot of the weekend. Only thing is where do you guys find 20" presta valve tubes or does 26" work well enough? Was going to try ghetto tubeless this time instead of Gorilla Tape tubeless but may have to fall back to the faithful Gorilla Tape method.


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## 3daywheelie (Jan 26, 2005)

*Clement X'Plor MSO setup tubeless on Alpha 340 rims? Anyone tried it? 60 or 120 tpi?*

I wanted to revive this thread a little bit now that cross season is ramping up hear in NorCal. I've been having great luck flogging my Hutchinson Bulldog 34c on Stan's Alpha 340 rims setup tubeless in the local SF cross series the last few weeks, but Bulldogs are hard to find, and I want to get fatter, like 40c, and the new Clements look cool (I ride an old Air9 so width is not a concern for clearing the frame). Anyone tried it? What's the rule of thumb again of 60tpi vs 120 tpi thread walls? I know 120 take a bit more time to seal, but one burps easier than the other? Seems to me the stiffer 60tpi would be more prone to burping, but I can't recall. I like the 60tpi because they're cheaper! Any other rec's on 40c'ish tires? I had a pair of folding IRC Mythos 42c 4 years ago that worked GREAT on Arch rims set up tubeless, but I can't those tires anymore.
thx
Patrick


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

I am kind of curious about the Vittoria Cross XG TNT tires.


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## jja37 (Nov 28, 2010)

Does anyone have the schwalbe cx pro pumped up tubeless? 50tpi seams low....


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## kmancrx (Nov 15, 2009)

I used 2 26 inch by 25mm rubber rimstrips on each rim. I patched up the hole where the valve stem goes through. The overlapping part of the strip has to be trimmed a little so that you don't get any leakage around that site. I used some threaded valves from an old tube. I mounted Maxxis raze on DT swiss 1850 wheels. So far so good as far as sealing and rolling. I flatted last Tuesday but it was a puncture that tore a hold in the tire. That flat would have happened to any tire. It was too big to seal with the Stans but I patched it up and it is now rolling again.


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## trauma-md (Nov 22, 2004)

uncreative said:


> does anyone else use tubular glue + stans on clincher rims? I've seen this mentioned a few times and am curious how well this works.


Bump


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## chairthruster (Dec 17, 2004)

glad this thread is revived....

slightly off topic, but can anyone comment on the seals used in the Stan's 340 wheelset hubs? I think they are the 3.30 model hubs... love stan's rims for mtb but haven't tried their hubs and want a bomber seal setup for a new cx wheelset. thanks!


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## Broussard (Mar 17, 2005)

3daywheelie said:


> I wanted to revive this thread a little bit now that cross season is ramping up hear in NorCal. I've been having great luck flogging my Hutchinson Bulldog 34c on Stan's Alpha 340 rims setup tubeless in the local SF cross series the last few weeks, but Bulldogs are hard to find, and I want to get fatter, like 40c, and the new Clements look cool (I ride an old Air9 so width is not a concern for clearing the frame). Anyone tried it? What's the rule of thumb again of 60tpi vs 120 tpi thread walls? I know 120 take a bit more time to seal, but one burps easier than the other? Seems to me the stiffer 60tpi would be more prone to burping, but I can't recall. I like the 60tpi because they're cheaper! Any other rec's on 40c'ish tires? I had a pair of folding IRC Mythos 42c 4 years ago that worked GREAT on Arch rims set up tubeless, but I can't those tires anymore.
> thx
> Patrick


I just set up 120 tpi X'plor MSO on Ultegra tubeless wheels. Pretty loose fit. Needed to let them sit inflated with tubes overnight to get bead to seat. Very porous sidewalls, but sealed up ok.

On an interesting note - I got a "bad" bottle of Stan's. The sidewalls initially refused to seal, even after I put way too much Stan's in them. Tried adding glitter, no dice. Finally noticed that my brand new bottle of Stan's looked really watery compared to normal. Got a different bottle from the local shop and they sealed right up. Weird.

Rode Tsali on them yesterday and they were awesome. No word yet on reliability, but I slammed them around pretty good and felt the rim hit a couple times, but no burping or other issues. 40/45 psi, 150lbs.

As far as what doesn't work - Was running Kenda Happy Mediums before, and developed the Stan's / non-tubeless tire de-lamination after about three weeks. They were great tires as well, but the MSO's are really awesome.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

^did you shake the crap out of the bottle you suspected as being bad? Possible that bottle had sat around for a while before you purchased it.


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## Broussard (Mar 17, 2005)

A1an said:


> ^did you shake the crap out of the bottle you suspected as being bad? Possible that bottle had sat around for a while before you purchased it.


Yup. Even after all the shaking it looked more like skim milk than anything else. Oh well. One of those things.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Johnny K said:


> First race on Arches with Mud2s: excellent.
> 
> 32psi front and 35 rear...I feel like I can go a good bit lower. I run 20 psi front and 23 rear in my mtb tires. Anyone else got a comparo between their cx and mtb tubeless pressures?


It is about a year since you posted this (and I'm hoping you are still around)...any updates on this setup? Issues? Changes?

The more I research wheel builds for my weight and proposed singletrack usage the more it points me back to the Arch EX. Thought about going with a Crest or IronCross but I'm right in the 190-200 range and I'm not sure those could handle my not-so-smooth riding style through our somewhat rooty trails.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Broussard said:


> Yup. Even after all the shaking it looked more like skim milk than anything else. Oh well. One of those things.


I had the same thing happen about 2 years ago. Bought a bottle....shook the crap out of it and noticed it looked thin ....and it would not seal a Schwable tire.
Called Stan's and they sent me a new bottle right out. It was thicker ( like normal) and sealed the tire first try.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Just built up some Velocity A23s, and set up Clement PDXs on there. Velocity tape, Orange Seal (my favorite sealant,) in back. Ran out and had to use Satan's up front. Seating beads took a bit. In retrospect, I'd have used an extra layer of tape. 
Taking them on a short trail ride shakedown tomorrow. Should be a good test of the wheels and tubeless set up.

Los


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

sslos said:


> Just built up some Velocity A23s, and set up Clement PDXs on there. Velocity tape, Orange Seal (my favorite sealant,) in back. Ran out and had to use Satan's up front. Seating beads took a bit. In retrospect, I'd have used an extra layer of tape.
> Taking them on a short trail ride shakedown tomorrow. Should be a good test of the wheels and tubeless set up.
> 
> Los


Have the same rims and tires - used 2 layers gorilla tape. Had to use the compressor to get them to seal. (I have never had luck with just a tire pump on any tire I have set up) Rode this combo last weekend at Copper Harbor -- some roots and rocks most of trail we rode was hardpacked dirt. Had no problems. Then the next day I rode the Michigan Tech Trails, Rode for about an hour trails were much rockier and rootier -- finally burped the rear on a large rock near the end of the ride. Ran 40 front an rear. I am 250 geared up. Felt the rims hit ALOT at Michigan Tech was very nervous.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Well, I'm about 60 lbs. south of you and the trails here are not rocky and rooty, but I was able to run about 35psi front and rear with no burps. The biggest problem was the gravel that the tires threw up at me!
No offense, but perhaps a bit higher psi may be required at your weight with this set up. At my weight, 35 did feel pretty soft, and I can imagine that I'd bottom them out if I were someplace with lots of rocks and roots.
As to the set up, I had to do some wheel adjustments on the front, and so just to see how it'd do, I pulled the tire, and added a second layer of Velocity tape. Aired up easily with my floor pump with the core removed.
Tires have held air well, and it's awfully nice to pull out a couple of goatheads and not worry about it!

Los


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## MrIndy (Aug 9, 2008)

*Dialing in the optimal pressure*

Hi All -- I'd really appreciate some advice on dialing in tire pressure. I'm running Stans Alpha 340s with Michelin Muds at 160# body weight and at 35psi. 1-2x per race, the rear tire gets really squirrely on minor g-outs and bumpy corners. It feels like the sidewall is about to fold over which I've never felt on my MTB and is pretty disconcerting. Is this normal for a CX tubelss setup, or do I need to keep ratcheting up the pressure to make it stop? It's never burped or caused a wreck but it seems like this is getting close to the 40psi pressure limit and at that point I'm not sure there's much benefit to running tubeless. I'm also wondering if maybe the 340s are too narrow for their intended purpose(?).


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## kmancrx (Nov 15, 2009)

MrIndy said:


> Hi All -- I'd really appreciate some advice on dialing in tire pressure. I'm running Stans Alpha 340s with Michelin Muds at 160# body weight and at 35psi. 1-2x per race, the rear tire gets really squirrely on minor g-outs and bumpy corners. It feels like the sidewall is about to fold over which I've never felt on my MTB and is pretty disconcerting. Is this normal for a CX tubelss setup, or do I need to keep ratcheting up the pressure to make it stop? It's never burped or caused a wreck but it seems like this is getting close to the 40psi pressure limit and at that point I'm not sure there's much benefit to running tubeless. I'm also wondering if maybe the 340s are too narrow for their intended purpose(?).


I run my tubeless pressure on the higher side of what most people would consider the "benefit" of a tubeless setup. 40R feels good to me and I weigh 145. I notice that running a tire tubeless at the same pressure as a tube it feels much different and thus I can tolerate some higher pressures. 40 with a tube feels way stiffer than 40 tubeless. The tire is just more supple at the same pressure without a tube IME. That has just been my experience. Play around with tire pressures and see what feels good. Let us know what works.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

sslos said:


> Well, I'm about 60 lbs. south of you and the trails here are not rocky and rooty, but I was able to run about 35psi front and rear with no burps. The biggest problem was the gravel that the tires threw up at me!
> No offense, but perhaps a bit higher psi may be required at your weight with this set up. At my weight, 35 did feel pretty soft, and I can imagine that I'd bottom them out if I were someplace with lots of rocks and roots.
> As to the set up, I had to do some wheel adjustments on the front, and so just to see how it'd do, I pulled the tire, and added a second layer of Velocity tape. Aired up easily with my floor pump with the core removed.
> Tires have held air well, and it's awfully nice to pull out a couple of goatheads and not worry about it!
> Los


Don't worry about offending me 250 geared up is not a bad weight When you are 6'6" (although I was at least 10 lbs lighter this summer)

Yeah I'm gonna try the 45 r and 40 front next. This is the same pressures I ran tubed on my muds for the first race this year. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to run my Gravel tires tubeless(Panarcer Tservs) have a race next weekend anybody got any history on those tires tubeless?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Anyone tried tubeless on deep dish chinese clinchers yet? 

I've had great luck on every rim I've tried; Bontrager, several sets of Stan's, my ENVE XCs and now I want to try a set of 38mm or 50mm carbon rims.


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## Deeps Elgnis (May 4, 2012)

clydeone said:


> Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to run my Gravel tires tubeless(Panarcer Tservs) have a race next weekend anybody got any history on those tires tubeless?


I've run panaracer paselas tubeless on all kinds of gravel, jeep trail, fire road etc and they work great for me.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Deeps Elgnis said:


> I've run panaracer paselas tubeless on all kinds of gravel, jeep trail, fire road etc and they work great for me.


I was going to try and set them up - have to mix up more sealant though


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

I set up some A23's with a layer of gorilla tape, Stan's CC 29er rimstrips, and sealant successfully with a Ritchey WCS shield on the front and a Kenda slant 6 in the rear. Had to use a compressor. No issues thus far. 
I'm also curious about the chinese carbon clinchers being run tubeless. Being a narrower rim I'm thinking it might not be the best idea.


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## MRisme (Mar 22, 2010)

I just ordered some Velocity A23s and will be looking to set them up tubeless... has anyone tried the tubeless kit that Velocity makes? I was thinking of giving that a shot first...


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

ender. said:


> I just ordered some Velocity A23s and will be looking to set them up tubeless... has anyone tried the tubeless kit that Velocity makes? I was thinking of giving that a shot first...


Me. 
Double wrap the rims (2 layers of tape,) and depending on your tire choice, soap the beads. I should have done both from the onset with my PDXs. Consequently, they took a little bit to get the bead to pop into place with a compressor.
After a bit of wheel work, I added a second layer of tape to the front, and it aired right up with my soon-to-be-dead, asthmatic floor pump.
The valves are really nicely done, great fit into the rim well, and the removable core is well made.

Los


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Update: Tires held well. Raced them on a very tough course with rough, dry sections, damp grass, and lots, LOTS of off camber sections! 32.5psi front, 34.5 rear, no burps or wallowing. Love these tires, love the fact that I picked up 5 goatheads the day before and had no worries. Tubeless rocks!

Los


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## gfsugar (Jul 6, 2009)

Are you guys running the new tubless A23's or the older ones?


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

gfsugar said:


> Are you guys running the new tubless A23's or the older ones?


New has distinct ledges for the bead


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

I'm running the older A23's


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Newer, made in Flor'da for me.

Los


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

I recently setup a pair of clement PDXs on a stans crest (front) and a 355 (rear) on my crux expert disc. So far I've ridden them a number of times on a cx course, in a fairly technical cx race, and on singletrack mtb trails without any problems. I weigh around 185 and have been running closer to 40 psi. So far it has been a great experience. As others have mentioned, 40psi tubeless feels a lot lower than 40psi with tubes, and grip with the same tires seems improved.

Everyone warned me that tubeless was a no-no for cross, but I'm glad I tried it for myself. Many probably don't want to believe tubeless is a valid replacement for their pain in the @ss tubulars that are superior by a seemingly decreasing margin. Component choices (rims, tires) seem to make a bigger difference as to whether tubeless will work consistently, although I'll be able to say that more confidently after I have an entire season on them under my belt.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Finally got the panaracer tservs setup last night. They were not the easiest to get to seat. Couldn't get them to hold air without sealant very porous sidewall. I used a scoop and a half of Wade's secret sauce did a few shake and lay on side. They had only lost a few pounds so I aired em up and rode to work on them this morning. Ran 45 f /50 rear. The back seemed soften by the time I got into work. I'll check them in a while. Would not suprise me that they lost air as porous as the sidewall was. Other wise it appears they will work for this weekend's gravel race.


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## El Train (Apr 21, 2007)

I set up some Specialized Captain CX Pros on a Stans Arch EX and a WTB Speeddisc. They seemed to be fine, and lost air overnight. I aired up in the morning and threw the wheels in my trunk. 5 min later the tire blew off the Stans rim. The other one was fine. Weird. I would have expected the other way around. Mind you the beads were pretty loose on both rims. Anyway, I resorted to a tube for the Stans rim. The front is fine still.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Tservs worked fine today. Raced the Lowell 50 (50 mile gravel race near Grand Rapids, MI) today had zero problems. Biggest challenge was some nasty potholes I could not avoid. zero burps.


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

My bike is not set up for racing. In the last week I did mount up my Schwalbe Marathon Mondial tires tubeless on a set of Stans ArchEX rims. So far have a few rides on them including a 46 mile ride yesterday. Running about 28/30psi (F/R) and that seems to be working well. I find the rolling resistance on the road is less and the grip in the dirt is better. I didn't use enough sealant the first time around so had to pump in another ounce to finish up sealing them. I like the look and feel of the 700x40 tires on the 24mm wide rim, I had them on a 19mm wide rim originally and they looked a little pinched.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

clydeone said:


> Don't worry about offending me 250 geared up is not a bad weight When you are 6'6" (although I was at least 10 lbs lighter this summer)
> 
> Yeah I'm gonna try the 45 r and 40 front next. This is the same pressures I ran tubed on my muds for the first race this year. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to run my Gravel tires tubeless(Panarcer Tservs) have a race next weekend anybody got any history on those tires tubeless?


Ran the PDXs today at 40 f 45 r -- burped the front on an awkward uphill dismount on lap 3 of 7. Finished the race but didn't burp again wound up with 20 pounds in the front. It was strange. I was being very careful. Lost 3-4 places after that.

Also I blew a Tire off a rim today. First time I have ever done that. luckily I was outside I was remounting my Tservs after the race for tomorrow's commute. I went ahead and remounted the tire more carefully this time. I'll see if it holds.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Additional info -- after burping my last 2 races -- I finally was able to complete one without a burp. In a race 3 weeks ago I burped the front so last week I added a 3rd layer of gorilla tape to the front AND I burped the rear. This was a race in Kalamazoo and i burped when I slid through an off camber up hill turn. So I added a 3rd layer to the rear this week nd ran 45 f / 50 r and was able to finish. This race was a decent test with a few tight grass corners that I was generally sliding through a bit. But not a lot of off camber. I am running Clement PDXs on A23s. One more race for me this year. A generally muddy affair in Holland, Michigan probably won't be a great test for burping and I will likely drop the pressure by 5# front and rear.


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## bo_vk (Mar 1, 2005)

Did anybody try tubeless mounting of tires with WIRE bead?
A little background:
I am using tubeless (tubeless ready, non tubeless, you name it) on MTB for many years and I have never DNF-ed because of tires.
I got a CX bike and was surprised reading about the terrible reliability of tubeless set-ups. So I tried Piranhas on A23, did not hold pressure, burped, bead stretched. So obviously bad choice of tires !? but I used Pythons and Piranhas on MTB without slightest problem. 
My bike came with wire beaded tires (Clement PDX, 33mm). I put them on A23 wheels tubeless, needed compressor to pop the bead in but nothing unusual.
38R, 32F (I am 190 lbs) and did 45 miles on easy fast singletrack with a lot of roots, milion turns on different surfaces. I hit the rim many times, skidded sideways in turns - basically abused the tires. Spent 4 hrs on the bike, the pressure at the end WAS IDENTICAL to the starting pressure, no sealant showed on tires, just a great ride.
Maybe till we get good quality tubeless ready 33mm + tires this wire bead tubeless is worth trying?


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Yeah but what is the benefit? You didn't lose any air, so what? You're using a heavier tire and a high pressure. Do you feel a difference like the other said between 32 with a tube or 32 tubeless?
It's a better feel?


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

If the bead stretched on your Piranhas, then you probably didn't have the most current version of the tire. Curious, but how did you set up your A23s for tubeless use, just tape or with a rim strip? 

I've got three sets of tubeless A23 wheels, all using the Stan's std 26" rimstrip, and whether I've run Bulldogs, Piranhas, Happy Mediums, or any number of tubeless ready road tires on them, I have not had a single lick of problems with them. 

If you're not using a rimstrip, try the std 26" strip. My guess is all your problems will go away.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

tiflow_21 said:


> I recently setup a pair of clement PDXs on a stans crest (front) and a 355 (rear) on my crux expert disc. So far I've ridden them a number of times on a cx course, in a fairly technical cx race, and on singletrack mtb trails without any problems. I weigh around 185 and have been running closer to 40 psi. So far it has been a great experience. As others have mentioned, 40psi tubeless feels a lot lower than 40psi with tubes, and grip with the same tires seems improved.
> 
> Everyone warned me that tubeless was a no-no for cross, but I'm glad I tried it for myself. Many probably don't want to believe tubeless is a valid replacement for their pain in the @ss tubulars that are superior by a seemingly decreasing margin. Component choices (rims, tires) seem to make a bigger difference as to whether tubeless will work consistently, although I'll be able to say that more confidently after I have an entire season on them under my belt.


I say this with a completely straight face, you are not fast enough to realize the superiority of tubulars.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Rivet said:


> I say this with a completely straight face, you are not fast enough to realize the superiority of tubulars.


Well, I know this is true for me.
The biggest obstacle for me to go to tubs is tire pricing, and needing another set of wheels. I'm a mid-pack 4, racing singlespeed in an area that has no separate singlespeed cat. 
There's a _lot_ I could do that would make me faster than tubs.
I rode and raced tubs in the 90s on the road, and completely understand why tubs are superior in CX, I just can't justify the expenditure for a hack like me.

Los


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## 69erEverything (Mar 26, 2012)

Clement pdx tubeless on stan's 340 rim at 45 worked great for a half lap. Took a g-out as if i was on the mtn bike (didn't want to endo). BOOM

That was a long walk back to the pits to get the other bike 

I had a hard time sealing those tires up. Worked great on girlfriend's bike but my luck with them was obviously not the same. I was burping them in warm ups. Damn i wish i was 50lbs lighter haha


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## naawillis (Feb 4, 2006)

ms6073 said:


> I am kind of curious about the Vittoria Cross XG TNT tires.


good tires. ive got a pair, been running them tubeless since september. 1 race, lots of nights rides, tight corners and techy features and some rim-banging rocky sh!t. no burps, no flats, no problems.

dt tk540 rims, 2 layers gorilla tape, stans valve. 
i aired them up with a compressor, but no sealant. the bead set fine. i took out the valve core and put in sealant the clean way and aired them up again. holding the wheel sideways while pulling on the bead around the tire will really help to seal any potential leaky spots. they hold air for weeks no problem.

the ride is good. i have had them as low as 33/35 but thats generally lower than i would run here in texas, given the rocky nature of many trails. i also have 32/36 spoke wheels (they still make those??), so its really fun to barrel through **** most wheels would cringe at, knowing that i a)wont fall over b) wont pinch flat and c) wont break my sh!t.

cant really speak to the weight, im not that guy.

been tubeless on the mtb for years, im never going back to tubes for cx now that tires like this exist.


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

(with Shimano 105 hubs & DT Comp 15/14/15 ga spokes & 1 layer of Stan's 21mm tape)...

100x easier to do tubeless than my MTB setup:
Stan's Arch EX 29er with Specialized Renegade Control & The Captain Control....


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## ww sunn (May 10, 2005)

Here is my experience with tubeless cross:
I weigh 150 lb and have been racing cross for over 10 years. I'm fast but not super fast.

This year I bought Stans Alpha 400 and mounted them tubeless with Michelin Mud. I just used the yellow tape. They surprisingly did not mount with a floor pump but aired easily with a compressor. 1 scoop of Stans.

I did 7 races this fall and mainly ran pressures about 27/28 psi. Twice I went with pressures at 25/27 psi. 

The first race I burped my front tire on the last lap and had to run it to the finish. But I crashed hard on the last lap and not sure if I that caused the burp.

After that, I never totally trusted the system but I must admit they worked great every other race. And the Michelin Muds were great all season. Good on the hard pack and good enough in the little mud we had this season.

27 psi feels so much softer in cross than mt bike. Unbelievable difference. With the squeeze test they feel way too soft but once ripping over hard, bumpy grass course they feel great. And they do ride different at that pressure than mt bike tires. I think one has to know they'll feel a little wiggly and put up with that for the float and traction benefits.

The Alpha are not the stiffest rim. I rode a teammates bike for one lap this fall with HED Stingers tubulars and they blew me away. Stiff, precise with great float. But for the money, the Alpha tubeless are great.

Another benefit; I can train/race on the same wheelset. I never could do that when I used tubulars. For a 45+ Masters racer with not enough time/money this is a huge benefit.

An extra plus is I can set them up in 20 minutes. I glued tubulars a few times and really, really disliked it. And when I looked at new tubular tire prices this past August, I just couldn't do it.

No, they are not as good as carbon tubulars but for the price/convenience/performance, I will probably use them again next year.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

After a couple flats I decided to move forward using my Bontrager Rhythm Comp wheelset that I was no longer using. My 700x40 Kenda Happy medium mounted up with a floor pump w/o issues. 

The 700x35 SB8 is being a pain in my ass. I couldn't get both beads to seat. A friend suggested I seat both with a tube, carefully pop one bead, remove the tube, then proceed with tubeless inflation attempt. Still couldn't get it to seat with my floor pump. I have a compressor...but my inflator tool broke. Think I can get the one to pop on with a compressor so I have to go buy another inflator.


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## slo_rider (Mar 22, 2007)

Deeps Elgnis said:


> I've run panaracer paselas tubeless on all kinds of gravel, jeep trail, fire road etc and they work great for me.


Last winter, I mounted 32mm Paselas with tubes on my CX bike for road use when the trails got buried, and thought they rode pretty well around 75-80 psi. I'd love to try them tubeless though.

But I've read a lot of warnings about converting non-tubeless road tires to tubeless, because the tube actually helps press the tire's bead against the rim's hook. A non-tubeless road tire's bead will stretch under the higher pressure, and without the tube holding the bead in place, a catastrophic blowout will likely happen with typical road tire pressures (roadie wrench Leonard Zinn talks about it *here*).

Non-tubeless mtb and cross tire conversions usually doesn't have the same problems because the pressures are much lower.

I like the idea of being able to mount higher pressure road tires on my cross wheels in the off season, since my cross bike is my only road bike currently. I emailed NoTubes about using higher pressure road tires on some of their cross oriented rims, and got this reply from Peter Pelychaty:

*You cannot use road tubeless tires with the Iron Cross because they are too tight. You can use road tires with a tube, but we recommend staying under 90 psi, especially with the larger road tires because it can slightly shorten the life of the rim. The Arch EX is a good choice, but it also cannot be used with road tubeless tires, but only tube-type road tires. We can make you a custom Alpha 400 wheelset... *​
Until Hutchinson's Intensive 28 road tubeless tires become available, I'm still a little curious (and a little cautious) about having some fat tubeless road tires. So Deeps, have you had any problems with your Pasela tubeless conversions?

Which Pasela model (ie width) have you converted to tubeless, which rims have you used, and most importantly, what pressures are you using?

Thanks in advance!


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

I was able to get the SB8 mounted on the Bontrager rim with a new blow gun attachment for the compressor. Battling some tiny bead leaks still on both tires. Going to throw an extra scoop of Stans in each and go out for a ride to help seal them up.


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## patspet (Dec 5, 2012)

I'm running stans arch with schwalbe marathon extreme.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Probably jinxed myself by saying this, but they appear to be holding air just fine now. First real ride tomorrow:


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## CNC Scott (Apr 18, 2011)

I have been running Michelin Mud2 tires with Mavic Askium rims and Stan's rim strips. I have been running 28 psi front and 32 rear. I have raced them all season and even ridden them on single track. They have been working perfectly until Saturday, during practice before a race, when I went off of a small drop to an off camber turn. The front tire burped all of its air, the rim stuck into the dirt and I went OTB. I noticed afterwards that the inside of the tire had very little Stan's sealant left. I am not sure if being low on sealant caused the problem but, I am no longer as confident with the setup.


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## mudrock (Dec 17, 2009)

bo_vk said:


> Did anybody try tubeless mounting of tires with WIRE bead?


I've got wire bead Serfas Vidas (700x38 commuter tread) on Stans Crests and no problems. Using Stans juice.


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## bo_vk (Mar 1, 2005)

mudrock said:


> I've got wire bead Serfas Vidas (700x38 commuter tread) on Stans Crests and no problems. Using Stans juice.


It is 4 weeks since the last post - here is an update to the "wire bead tubeless".
I was riding A23 with wire bead Clements for another 4 weeks, 2 races and probably 50 MI of MTB singletrack at 27F, 34R verified by Topeka digital gouge (I am 195 lbs after Christmas). I think if this setup can be burped by now it would. Had one crash and badly damaged rear wheel, getting the tire off the bead was very difficult.

Question for everybody - Anybody tried wire bead* road* tubeless setup? All they claim for road tubeless bead is that it does not stretch SO -> the wire bead may do the trick for 1/4 of the price??


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## mudrock (Dec 17, 2009)

My LBS does a lot of tubeless and consults with Stan about what works ( we are in Ithaca, 30 miles from Stan's facility in Elmira), and says most wire bead tires will work, but not folding (kevlar bead can stretch apparently). Must have a smooth bead seat, not ridged like you see on some tires, and no skinwall.


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

mudrock said:


> My LBS does a lot of tubeless and consults with Stan about what works ( we are in Ithaca, 30 miles from Stan's facility in Elmira), and says most wire bead tires will work, but not folding (kevlar bead can stretch apparently). Must have a smooth bead seat, not ridged like you see on some tires, and no skinwall.


is that a response to Bo_vk? if so... then stan's website is outdated as it says road tubeless specific must be used. AFAIK, there are no wire bead tubeless road tires


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## mudrock (Dec 17, 2009)

For liability reasons, no manufacturer, including Stan, will endorse tubeless conversions for wire bead or other tires if they were not intended for that purpose. And Lennard Zinn on the Velonews site has cautioned riders from converting regular tires and running at high pressures (90psi+). But many people have experimented with different setups, at their own risk of course. I can only speak for what works for me.

Should have quoted bo_vk for more clarity.


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## Playmobil (Jan 25, 2013)

Hi everyone, 

This is my first post, I and arrived here trying to find information about going tubeless in my brand new cx bike, a Cube X Team. 
I regularly use it as an all mountain, not competition yet (cx season is over in Spain). 

So, after reading lots of threads, I decided to go tubeless, and the first choice was to buy a specific tubeless pair of wheels. My choice was DT Swiss R1800, because they were at an excellent price. I have not read so much of this wheels, but I swear it will work for my purpose. 

Now, my doubts are choosing the tires. I would prefer going again to specific tubeless tires, but the options are very limited, and I've read good reviews using regular clinchers. If I go in that way, does anyone now if Maxxis mimo cx is a good choice? And the most important, do I take the wire or foldable version? And at last, with a non tubeless clincher, do I need to use some tape in the rim? 

Thank you very much for your answers, and happy trails!


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## MirFlash (Oct 14, 2010)

Experiences with Mavic SL and Alpha 400

Vittoria's are a breeze, on both.
My wife's commuter (Alpha 400) and Clément USH were a pain to get airtight, in the end had to resort to NoZisch, after 3 weeks of battling with NoTubes.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm running alpha 400's with continental CX race (700x35 folding model) with a stan's rimstrip on top of the tape.

Had them burp once at ~27 psi while pre-riding a race course, then had the tire blow off the rim while taking a very tight turn on pavement on my way to work at ~55 psi. Admittedly the 55 psi was probably pushing it, but I do like to run at higher pressures on the road so I have a tube on the front for now. 

I think I'm going to make the jump to a tubeless specific tire soon - I had some trouble getting my front tire back on even with a tube. The bead was very stretched out, making it almost too loose. This makes me think the bead wasn't really strong enough to run tubeless (at least at a very high pressure). Hoping a stronger bead will help me run higher pressures on the road without issue.


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## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

Any experiences with the new TCS rims from WTB with cross tires? Specifically I'm looking at the I19 and want to run them tubeless. I emailed WTB, but they were pretty useless. I dont have the cash to buy the rims and build the wheels just to test out some combos.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Playmobil said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> This is my first post, I and arrived here trying to find information about going tubeless in my brand new cx bike, a Cube X Team.
> I regularly use it as an all mountain, not competition yet (cx season is over in Spain).
> ...


I had a pair of MiMos for a while, and they were pretty loose on a few different rims. I doubt they'd set up well tubeless.
You may want to check out the Vittoria XG TnT, or Specialized's 2Bliss Ready tires.

Los


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## Playmobil (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks sslos.

Yeah, I also agree the best way is to go for a specific tubeless tire.

Kenda Kommando, Vittoria XG TNT & Spe Captain 2bliss are my options, but they are hard to find. Which one will you prefer for hard pack, rocks, dry trails?


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Hmmm, I have not ridden any of these in those conditions, but judging from the tread I'd say the Spec.

Los


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

Playmobil said:


> Thanks sslos.
> 
> Yeah, I also agree the best way is to go for a specific tubeless tire.
> 
> Kenda Kommando, Vittoria XG TNT & Spe Captain 2bliss are my options, but they are hard to find. Which one will you prefer for hard pack, rocks, dry trails?


I've only ridden spec captain pro & 2br in those conditions... works fine... can't ride as hard as my MTB tubeless with spec renegade (rear) and captains (front)


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## Playmobil (Jan 25, 2013)

Impossible to get the Captain's 2bliss in Spain. 

Vittoria TNT and Kenda Kommando or Small Block Eight SCT are the last options in tubeless tires. Not sure if a non tubeless tire will work on my DT wheels


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

I like the SM8 in hardpack, rocky terrain. Terrible if there's grass or any moisture, so they didn't work for me for CX.
I set mine up tubeless with some difficulty, but they did work.
Unfortunately, the sidewalls are a bit delicate. I sliced the rear fairly quickly, 1 cm gash that hasn't really patched well enough to keep them tubeless.

Los


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## Playmobil (Jan 25, 2013)

sslos said:


> I like the SM8 in hardpack, rocky terrain. Terrible if there's grass or any moisture, so they didn't work for me for CX.
> I set mine up tubeless with some difficulty, but they did work.
> Unfortunately, the sidewalls are a bit delicate. I sliced the rear fairly quickly, 1 cm gash that hasn't really patched well enough to keep them tubeless.
> 
> Los


Did you use the SCT (sealant compatible) Kenda tire or just the normal version? Which pair of wheels did you use? Stan's?

Has anyone experienced going tubeless on DT Swiss R1800 wheels?


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Playmobil said:


> Did you use the SCT (sealant compatible) Kenda tire or just the normal version? Which pair of wheels did you use? Stan's?
> 
> Has anyone experienced going tubeless on DT Swiss R1800 wheels?


Standard (non-SCT) tires, Bontrager Mustang rims, Gorilla taped. 
The SCT version wasn't available when I got them, and after one CX race on the SM8s I won't spend the money. I liked them pretty well for singletrack duty, but they were terrible in the grass-heavy CX courses we have here in Idaho.
If you're not racing the SCTs might be a viable solution.

Los


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## GraemeTee (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm trying to set up my CX bike as tubeless but having just bought a new roadbike and MTB, funds are a bit low!

The routes I ride tend to have a lot of thorns around the trails so punctures are a common problem. I'm hoping to cut down on the punctures if possible.
Instead of going for new wheels and tyres, I'm planning on fitting a set of Schwalbe tubes with removable cores then putting some Stans sealant into the tube to see if it'll help with punctures. Has anyone tried this and did it work?


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## Whambat (Jul 30, 2006)

GraemeTee said:


> I'm trying to set up my CX bike as tubeless but having just bought a new roadbike and MTB, funds are a bit low!
> 
> The routes I ride tend to have a lot of thorns around the trails so punctures are a common problem. I'm hoping to cut down on the punctures if possible.
> Instead of going for new wheels and tyres, I'm planning on fitting a set of Schwalbe tubes with removable cores then putting some Stans sealant into the tube to see if it'll help with punctures. Has anyone tried this and did it work?


Yup, that's pretty standard in CO with all the goat heads we have. I even put a little in my road tubes. Cheap quality brand tubes also have removable cores.


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## GraemeTee (Jan 24, 2013)

Whambat said:


> Yup, that's pretty standard in CO with all the goat heads we have. I even put a little in my road tubes. Cheap quality brand tubes also have removable cores.


Excellent, thanks for letting me know.

Out of interest, how much sealant do you use in the tubes?


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## TBMD9er (May 22, 2009)

GraemeTee said:


> Excellent, thanks for letting me know.
> 
> Out of interest, how much sealant do you use in the tubes?


Worked for me too. I used the QBP tubes which, as mentioned, have the removable valve stem. For my 700x35 tires I believe I used about 1.5 ounces per tire. I've pulled multiple thorns/goat heads out of them after races without much air loss, so they do work well. I don't think they are pinch flat proof though. I have been trying to get motivated for tubeless , even have some stans alpha rims, but it seems like different tires are hit and miss. I had some Maxis mud wrestlers set up beautifully only to have them blow right off the rim riding down to the park to test ride them. After seeing and hearing other scenarios like this, it is hard to beat tubes and sealant. I mean what's the point of saving a few grams if your not even going to finish the race. So I that note, has anyone had luck with the continental X-kings tubeless? I like the looks of the 700x35's, but heard the side walls are rather porous.


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## bo_vk (Mar 1, 2005)

bo_vk said:


> It is 4 weeks since the last post - here is an update to the "wire bead tubeless".
> I was riding A23 with wire bead Clements for another 4 weeks, 2 races and probably 50 MI of MTB singletrack at 27F, 34R verified by Topeka digital gouge (I am 195 lbs after Christmas). I think if this setup can be burped by now it would. Had one crash and badly damaged rear wheel, getting the tire off the bead was very difficult.
> 
> Question for everybody - Anybody tried wire bead* road* tubeless setup? All they claim for road tubeless bead is that it does not stretch SO -> the wire bead may do the trick for 1/4 of the price??


Since this post I installed Hutchinson tubeless road tires on my bike so I felt an explanation may be in order. I still feel the wire bead road tires would work tubeless. It came down to the risk / benefit feeling. As I was looking for wire bead road tires I realized they may not be made in needed quality to keep the wire from separation from rubber at high pressures (several people actually mentioned this in tire reviews). So I got the real tubeless road tires and sure enough, the build quality is visibly excellent. For road where there is so small margin for error I will stick with real tubeless.

On the other hand I still like wire beaded tires for CX (low pressures).


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## TBMD9er (May 22, 2009)

*Any experience with these tubeless*

Vredestein Premiato Cross Tire? Would be going with the 700X34 on a Stans Alpha 340.


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

TBMD9er said:


> Vredestein Premiato Cross Tire? Would be going with the 700X34 on a Stans Alpha 340.


Nope. I don't think they are tubeless ready... so you may need a rimstrip.

ALPHA Cyclocross Rim Strip

if that's too expensive... then there are the proven ghetto tubeless methods to try


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## TBMD9er (May 22, 2009)

tednugent said:


> Nope. I don't think they are tubeless ready... so you may need a rimstrip.
> 
> ALPHA Cyclocross Rim Strip


Thanks for the response. I thought for the stans alpha set-up that a double layer of yellow tape was all that is needed, or is this for Road tubeless? I did set these wheels up with some Maxxis mud wrestlers (New old stock 700X35s). They set-up and held air beautifully but blow right off the rim when riding to the park. These were really loose fitting and I found out later people were not having success with these. So with a tighter fitting tire would I still need a rim strip? or is it mostly trial and error still at this point in cross tubeless?


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## TBMD9er (May 22, 2009)

*Answered my own question*

From the Stan's site.

Re: Tire options for Alpha 400?

Postby NoTubesBob » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:41 am
The majority of cx tires will fit on the Alpha rim and can be used tubeless. There can unfortunately be large variance in tire size. I have seen sets of Muds that are loose and others there were tight. A tight fitting cross tire will work well with just the yellow tape and valve. For a loose fitting tire add the alpha rim strip. http://www.notubes.com/ALPHA-Cyclocross ... 91C13.aspx


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

TBMD9er said:


> Thanks for the response. I thought for the stans alpha set-up that a double layer of yellow tape was all that is needed, or is this for Road tubeless? I did set these wheels up with some Maxxis mud wrestlers (New old stock 700X35s). They set-up and held air beautifully but blow right off the rim when riding to the park. These were really loose fitting and I found out later people were not having success with these. So with a tighter fitting tire would I still need a rim strip? or is it mostly trial and error still at this point in cross tubeless?


Double wrap is mandatory for road tubeless due to the high pressures for road tires.. Optional on cross and mtb. Going double doesn't hurt.

Specialized Captain 2BR set up just fine with 1 layer of Stan's type on Alpha 400.
Specialized Bicycle Components

on my MTB.... I had to use 2 on my Arch EX rear wheel with Specialized Renegade Control. The front Arch EX was fine with 1 layer with Specialized Captain Control (both are 2Bliss ready)

tubeless ready (non-UST) would also have an extra butyl rubber layer on the bead, to help with sealing. So, non-tubeless ready tires, this is why you can use a rimstrip to take up the slack. There are other methods also, ie build up with rim tape, gorilla tape, extra tube, etc.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Decided to end my conti experiment last night (CX race 35s on alpha 400s). They were a GREAT off road tire but didn't deal well with even moderately high pressures, and felt squirrelly on the road with lower pressures on such a narrow rim. Sidewalls were kind of porous, and didn't recover from punctures too well - the last straw was coming out of work to a flat and having to ride home with maybe 10psi worth of co2 left. These will go on my B wheel set which may end up getting sold to my brother if he gets this sweet lemond frame he's been eyeing.

LBS had some Vittoria XG TNTs lying around so I dropped my bike off to get them on. Hoping for a stronger bead so I can run at least 50 psi on road without fear of blow offs and a better sidewall. Will report back.


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## MirFlash (Oct 14, 2010)

Vittoria should be no problem.
Have been way over 50 psi with XN (on Alpha's)


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Good to hear - my mountain bike is in the shop and we got some nice weather this weekend so I'll be testing these bad boys out on the road tomorrow. May try as high as 60 psi if I feel cheeky.

Construction on these tires feels impeccable. Supple sidewalls, really strong beads, went up tubeless no problem without the stans strip. Only concern is that I'll chew through the tread too fast on the road, compound used feels very soft. But I'm tirewilling to replace tires a bit more often in exchange for a more robust tubeless setup.

**EDIT** these tires feel great on the road - pumped up to 65 in the rear and 60 up front and was rewarded with a very confidence inspiring ride (actual pressures may have been higher not sure how much confidence I have in my pump's gauge). Saw they are rated for 45-90 PSI - I think 45 was about the maximum my old tires could handle with a tubeless setup. Hope they don't have any issues on the occasions when I want to go lower, but with such a supple casing 45 might actually be low enough. That soft-feeling tread compound makes for some amazing grip too. Can't wait to get out on them again.


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## MirFlash (Oct 14, 2010)

Experienced a blowoff from a Clément X'Plor, whereas the Vittoria was still going strong, I measured with a digital gauge the Vittoria @ nearly 5,7 bars ~ 80 psi, the Clément was long gone ... I still have my garage ceiling painted with NoTubes 

Never trust your old pump gauge ....

Wife's XN front, thread is going strong (+/- 1800 km 4 months)


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## kmancrx (Nov 15, 2009)

I will share my experiences from this past season. I initially started off running Maxxis Raze both front and rear on DT Swiss 1850 rims with wide rubber 26 inch rim strips (2 on each rim for thickness). They both aired up very easily but I experienced 3 or 4 burps during races this year that cost me several positions (cat 4 mid-pack glory) and decided that something had to change on the front. I never experienced any problems with burping on the rear. I was running high 30s on the front and low 40s on the rear. 

I switched to a Maxxis mud wrestler on the front and it has served me much better. No burps in any CX races. I did get a slight burp this past weekend while riding 12 miles of singletrack at the Doubleshot race here in North Carolina. The burp was very slight and was easily pumped back up. The course was very rocky and rooty for skinny cx tires. 

Overall I think the Raze has too loose of a fit to work reliably for ghetto tubeless in CX. Maybe people using a proper rimstrip or Stans wheels would have different experiences.

Next year for CX racing I think I am going tubular but tubeless is still a viable option.


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## skaruda_23 (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm planning on doing a CX tubeless setup with Stan's Crest rims (which were recommended to me by Stan's for my custom hub and spoke choices).

I'm interested in the Vittoria TNT tires, but have heard from a guy at my LBS that they can be terribly difficult to mount. For those of you that run these tires, what did you think of the installation?

Also, has anybody tried the Stan's Raven tires tubeless? Any details on those would be great to hear too!


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## mudrock (Dec 17, 2009)

I've had the Crest rims on my crosser since last spring. Currently have allrounder tires on now (Serfas Vida, not tubeless-specific but work just fine). Will put on the Ravens that i have been saving for mud season. used those ravens on my DT Swiss wheels w/Stans conversion but not yet on the Crests.

Ravens are great tubeless - that is their purpose. Had one sudden leak that resealed itself in 6 mos. of riding (finished the ride w 10 lbs of air). you can't go wrong with Ravens on Crests. The great thing about Crests (and all Stans wheels) is they will allow more standard tires to be used tubeless because of the tighter fit. Also means that changing tires can be a bear.


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

mudrock said:


> I've had the Crest rims on my crosser since last spring. Currently have allrounder tires on now (Serfas Vida, not tubeless-specific but work just fine). Will put on the Ravens that i have been saving for mud season. used those ravens on my DT Swiss wheels w/Stans conversion but not yet on the Crests.
> 
> Ravens are great tubeless - that is their purpose. Had one sudden leak that resealed itself in 6 mos. of riding (finished the ride w 10 lbs of air). you can't go wrong with Ravens on Crests. The great thing about Crests (and all Stans wheels) is they will allow more standard tires to be used tubeless because of the tighter fit. Also means that changing tires can be a bear.


The Arch EX on my MTB... seating the bead is a PITA.

the Alpha 400 on my Cross... super, super easy. I can seat the bead by hand with tubeless compatible tires


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Vittorias definitely tight - shop had to remove my rim strips to install. Once on they go up easy though. The tires that go on easy seem to be a bit less reliable.

Haven't had to pump them up since first ride - haven't had that with any tubeless setup and its pretty lovely. May look for a TnT tire for my next MTB setup to see if they hold air as well.


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## mnyquist (Sep 18, 2009)

Just mounted a pair of Clement LAS on Stan's Iron Cross. Tires seeped a bit. Added some Sealant after a couple days. Got in a nice gravel ride on them and they feel very quick.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Managed to blow the Vittoria off the rim yesterday (stans 400). I was at a hair over 80 psi (by my gauge, which may not be the most accurate). So will be keeping in the 70's in the future. This one was interesting because I was going straight - much different experience than the conti which basically tore off the rim coming around a tight corner. It was *very* loud too, people came running out of their houses thinking I'd been shot. I filled up in the morning, so I suspect that the tires got good and hot as the ride went on, causing it to eventually blow off. 

Probably could have re-seat the bead roadside but went with a tube in the interest of getting home (was 50 miles or so into a 65 mile route, and almost as far from home as it took me). It did not appear to have sustained any damage.

The good news is, getting it set up tubeless again will give me an excuse to remove the tape so I can fish out the nipple that's been rattling around in my rim driving me crazy


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

AlexCuse said:


> Managed to blow the Vittoria off the rim yesterday (stans 400). I was at a hair over 80 psi (by my gauge, which may not be the most accurate). So will be keeping in the 70's in the future.


XG Pro TNT (700x32) holds up fine for me (w/ Stan's alpha 400) at 65 PSI.... with 30+ mph cornering on descents (which is scary)


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Yep 65-70 should be great. High speed cornering may be hindered but worth it if the tire stays on


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

AlexCuse said:


> Yep 65-70 should be great. High speed cornering may be hindered but worth it if the tire stays on


 the knobs makes it scary compared to a road tire


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I'm curious to hear from anyone with experience converting Hed Ardennes rims to tubeless. I have a 2012 CL version of the wheelset and ran them in cross last year with tubes. I was hoping to convert them to tubeless using stan's tape and sealant and running either Specialized Captains 2bliss or Michelin Mud 2's. I'd like to hear from anyone with experience using these rims and/or tires tubeless. Thanks


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## Gravel Grinder (Jul 6, 2013)

Anyone had an issue with folding racing ralphs and the bead tearing off at 60psi. I got the tyre replaced but it was a long walk home. Now running the the replacement tyre and the other racing ralph with no issues.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Seems low for a bead failure, hopefully a freak thing. What size tire?


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2013)

Bump.

Anyone tried that Specialized Captain CX 2BR yet? Thoughts?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Took these off to fit new rotors and thought I would post them up here as ive been following this thread.

Lightbicycle XC carbon rims (21mm internal dia), hope hubs and DT revo spokes. 1560g wheelset. Set up tubeless with 3M 8898 strapping tape, stans and enve tubeless valves... I will be changing these out for regular tubeless valves when I need to refresh the stans as they were too long, hence the blue alu spacer.


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## AKRC78 (Apr 17, 2011)

Anyone run a specialized carbon Roval 29er wheel with a cross tire yet? I'm thinking of pulling it off my mountain bike and setting it up with a Terra Pro 33. It has a 45psi max. I'm a little worried about damaging the carbon sidewall if I do hit rocks or roots too hard. 
Will no bead hook matter?
Any Thoughts?


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

davidcarson48 said:


> Bump.
> 
> Anyone tried that Specialized Captain CX 2BR yet? Thoughts?


Wondering the same. One of our customers runs them and swears by them. Specialized is out of stock until December, so I'll have to wait to try them myself...

Los


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I've been running the Captain CX 2BR on my front wheel (Hed Ardennes) set-up tubeless with 2 strips of Stan's tape. I've raced it at 35 psi on a really rough course with lots of roots with no issues. I weigh 175 pounds. It really grips well.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

I rode those rims on a rented road bike and couldn't stop thinking about how much cross tire they could put on the ground if set up tubeless. Glad to hear they work well. How was the setup? Guessing not too tough if you needed the strips


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## (807) Recordings (Sep 19, 2009)

ozzybmx said:


> Took these off to fit new rotors and thought I would post them up here as ive been following this thread.
> 
> Lightbicycle XC carbon rims (21mm internal dia), hope hubs and DT revo spokes. 1560g wheelset. Set up tubeless with 3M 8898 strapping tape, stans and enve tubeless valves... I will be changing these out for regular tubeless valves when I need to refresh the stans as they were too long, hence the blue alu spacer.


You are running the Schwable RR in tubeless, and which size? I am wondering as I have worn out my Stan's Raven 700X35 and looking for something with a bit more grip.


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## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Why are you guys running such high pressures in cross tires? Kevlar bead tires whether they are tubeless ready or not are not safe at higher pressures. Road tubeless use a carbon bead that does not stretch and therefore stays on. I only weigh 142 so I can run lower psi and 40 is max for me but that's for commuting. Off road I'll drop to low 30's. There is no advantage to rock hard tires. As a gauge you want to have a little bulge when your on the bike. And not bottom out too often on rocky or roots trails.


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

Today was my first ride tubeless. I am running Stan's 355 rim on the front wheel and a Stan's Iron Cross on the rear. The front wheel came from my mountain bike and was still in good shape but the rear needed a new rim and I had it rebuilt with the Iron Cross.

I ordered a set of Vittoria XG Pro TNT tires when I got the rear wheel rebuilt. They were a pain to get on because of the tight beads and reminded me why I hate TNT tires. They aired up easily with the floor pump and I set them at 32psi front and 35 psi rear, fwi I weigh 165. Rode some smooth singletrack trail, road, gravel, and grass and things worked well. The ride was nice and when I rode over branches that were laying on the roads I barely felt them. I also tested the cornering ability out on grass and they seemed to do well. I may drop the air pressure a bit for racing especially if it is a smooth course. 

I also have a set of wheels built with Velocity A23. I tried to set them up tubeless with Schwalbe Racing Ralphs Evolution. I could not get the tires to seat with a floor pump. I took them to the shop and the got them to seat with the compressor but would go flat over night. They were extremely loose on the rims and I didn't trust them tubeless so switched back to tubes. I even tried them on the Stan's 355 rim and no luck getting it to seat. I don't trust a tire if I can't get it to seat with a floor pump or at worst going to a nearby gas station.


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## (807) Recordings (Sep 19, 2009)

Lots of my tires I could not get setup with out a compressor and they have been the most reliable. However that it MTB sizes 1.8 or larger.

I seen the Vittoria XG Pro TNT also and was considering them and wondering if they offer more grip than the Stan's Raven 35mm? 

I am pretty much bald on my Raven's now so really need something to fit the frame.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

update -- ran Clement PDX on A23s with 2 layers gorilla tape and a 24" split tube. 0 problems with burps. Ran 40# in front and 50# in the back, obviously I would like to run a little lower in the back. 40# in the front was right at the limit for me when it came to squirm on this course. We had a fast paved section followed by a sharp paved corner that the front tire REALLY wanted to roll over on. I thought I burped on it but when I checked pressure when I got done, it was the same. Will definitely experiment with lower pressures in the back, I did not like the way the back tire seated so I ran a higher pressure as I did not have time to experiment. The pressures may seem high but I am 6' 6" and 240# so they are not unusual for me. The lowest I would run tubed is 45# as pinch flats become an issue for me there. This was a good test as there were 2 grassy off camber sections one that was basically switchbacks down the face of a hill.


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## AKRC78 (Apr 17, 2011)

I set up my carbon roval control mtb wheels tubeless with the terra pro tires my bike came with for the race this weekend. I ran them with 38 psi front and back, it was a really fast/hard course with a high speed heavily rooted section. I burped the rear tire on the second lap but it held for the rest of the race (40 min). When I threw the pressure gauge on it afterwards it was sitting around 30psi. I thinks it's good and glued now!!


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Were you using the tubeless ready version of the terra pro? Specialized Bicycle Components


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## AKRC78 (Apr 17, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> Were you using the tubeless ready version of the terra pro? Specialized Bicycle Components


Yes there the "2bliss" ready version. They work great in mud and loose sidehills, but don't role the best on hard-pact. Go figure


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

(807) Recordings said:


> You are running the Schwable RR in tubeless, and which size? I am wondering as I have worn out my Stan's Raven 700X35 and looking for something with a bit more grip.


Sorry, only seen your post. They are 33's, currently running Clement Las as tubeless.... nothing wrong with the ralphs, just wanted to try something with a flatter center profile.


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## (807) Recordings (Sep 19, 2009)

ozzybmx said:


> Sorry, only seen your post. They are 33's, currently running Clement Las as tubeless.... nothing wrong with the ralphs, just wanted to try something with a flatter center profile.


The Raven's might be a bit flatter, but also a bit less grip (rolls faster). Mine are 35mmX700. I may have to check the RR to run on my Bad Boy as there is not much space left, and I don't feel like going down to a 26er wheel.

FWIW I have not burped my setup at all and I am always doing MTB on it. Usually in the 40psi range, but even less down to about 26psi. Lower psi though and tire roll comes in, and lots of rim bashing.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

AKRC78, I guess you burped the rear on the rooty section of the course? How much do you weigh. I've been running a Vittoria TNT size 32 set up tubeless on my rear wheel at 40-41 psi without any problems while riding some rooty single track. I weigh 175 pounds.


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## AKRC78 (Apr 17, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> AKRC78, I guess you burped the rear on the rooty section of the course? How much do you weigh. I've been running a Vittoria TNT size 32 set up tubeless on my rear wheel at 40-41 psi without any problems while riding some rooty single track. I weigh 175 pounds.


Yeah, I hit a root pretty hard and felt it burp. But after that I went through the same section 7 more times with no problems. I set them up the night before with no riding on them prior to the race and I think they just needed to seat proper. I weight 170. They ran fine at 31psi just a little soft for the rear tire.


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## Pynchonite (Sep 2, 2013)

Anyone tried setting up narrow rims tubeless? I've got a set of last year's Oval 327 CX wheels and the rims are 17mm wide. From what I've heard, the issue is that the narrow rims demand a higher pressure, but the fit on a non-tubeless rim isn't tight enough to ensure the bead won't blow out. Anyway, anyone tried this?


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

They may work they may not. IMHO the most successful method is split tube. You may be better off just using latex tubes(admittedly I have never used them)


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## RPG (Sep 16, 2005)

Just set up some velocity A23's with Stan's yellow tape and rim strips with Clement tires. Seated up no problem, but took time for beads to seal with the help of sealant. I did not hear the beads snap into place. Usually heard that with my mtb wheels.


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## Pynchonite (Sep 2, 2013)

Just out of curiosity, which Clement tires? I was thinking of trying either their LAX or X'Plor.


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## MirFlash (Oct 14, 2010)

Have X'Plor USH on 2 bikes, seated up well, with NoTubes took ages to seal, (Alpha and Mavic) in the end resorted to NoZisch to make the seal.


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## RPG (Sep 16, 2005)

I have PDx I the front and mxp in the rear. Still holding air after 18 hours.


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## jamesb39 (Oct 12, 2005)

Thought I would pass on my experience. I have had great success using Bontrager TLR rim strips mounted in Volocity A23's with numerous tires, both wire bead and folding. The strips fit perfectly and provide a generous "shelf" for the tire to seat on and the bead locks firmly into the strip. I have never had a burp or bead pop off with pressures between 25 to 40 psi(I'm 185). The TLR strips are much more durable than any tape. I'm currently building a set of HED Belgium's that will use the same system.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

jamesb39 said:


> Thought I would pass on my experience. I have had great success using Bontrager TLR rim strips mounted in Volocity A23's with numerous tires, both wire bead and folding. The strips fit perfectly and provide a generous "shelf" for the tire to seat on and the bead locks firmly into the strip. I have never had a burp or bead pop off with pressures between 25 to 40 psi(I'm 185). The TLR strips are much more durable than any tape. I'm currently building a set of HED Belgium's that will use the same system.


wow sounds like a perfect solution. Are your A23s 1st generation(no ledge) or 2nd generation(have a tubeless "ledge")


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## jamesb39 (Oct 12, 2005)

clydeone said:


> wow sounds like a perfect solution. Are your A23s 1st generation(no ledge) or 2nd generation(have a tubeless "ledge")


I have used both. My current setup is with the 2 generation.


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## jemlinus (Jul 27, 2008)

Anybody had their tires setup to higher than 60psi? I want to ride on the road to the local trails so I ride high 60's with my tires to get to the trail.

EDIT: I do lower my pressure when I get to the trails.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

jemlinus said:


> Anybody had their tires setup to higher than 60psi? I want to ride on the road to the local trails so I ride high 60's with my tires to get to the trail.
> 
> EDIT: I do lower my pressure when I get to the trails.


One of my coworkers had a Specialized Terr Pro 2Bliss blow off of his Alpha 400 at 75 psi. Straight line, on smooth asphalt.
I gave him a hard time for running such high pressures. I just don't get it. He's at 65 now with good results.
I don't think over 60 psi really helps much with rolling resistance.

Los


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

jemlinus said:


> Anybody had their tires setup to higher than 60psi? I want to ride on the road to the local trails so I ride high 60's with my tires to get to the trail.
> 
> EDIT: I do lower my pressure when I get to the trails.


What tires are you running? and on what rims? Last year I ran 700 x 35 panaracer Tservs at 45 - 55 psi tubeless doing fast group rides and every day commuting and I was about 230 lbs. They were mounted on A23s. I cannot see you needing to go higher then that unless your rims are narrower or your tires are substantially narrower or your are heavier then me.


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## jemlinus (Jul 27, 2008)

I have Gigantex carbon rims with 18.5mm internal(24.5 external) width. I've been running Mud2, Jet, and Vittoria XG tires in various combination with tubes. Also, I'm running 60psi front 70psi rear on the road, down to 30F 35R on the trails.


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## (807) Recordings (Sep 19, 2009)

Anyone try the Rocket Ron's going tubeless ?
From my understanding neither the Rocket Ron or Racing Ralph are actually TLR?
We are debating these at my bike shop as my next tires on crest 29er rims. I can't get much larger than a 35/1.3 on this Bad Boy I have and from what we could tell only TLR is in 2.1 or larger?

Hutchinson was also an option but apparently they do not like the Crest Rims.


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## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

I mounted some Hutcinson Toro's on I9 Ultralight CX wheels yesterday using a basic floor pump. Super easy.


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## Poncharelli (Jan 13, 2005)

My Giant CX bike came with tubeless ready rims (made by DT Swiss for Giant) and tubeless ready tires (Shwalbe for giant, 35mm).

They are great. No issues so far with 4 races this year and lots of practices in thorn infested areas. Thorns no problem as long as the Stans is topped off. 

Too bad the whole setup is all proprietary to Giant. I think it's worth considering a Giant bike just to have this setup.


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

As an update, I've run both MXP and PDX setup tubeless on a stans crest (front) and stans 355 (rear) with good luck. Part of this may be due to the wide rims? I started out the season with MXP front/rear but have changed to PDX front (for more bite), MXP rear. I'm ~180 pounds and run 36-38psi front, 40-42psi rear, at these pressures I've avoided burp issues and could probably go slightly lower.


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

Changed my tubeless setup last week. Was running Vittoria XG pro TNT on stan's rims(iron cross rear and 355 front). I had no problems using them for the Iron Cross race and doing two traditional CX race. I just didn't like the feel/performance of the Vittoria's. 

I decided to try the Schwalbe Racing Ralphs again. I ordered a roll of 8988 tape and went to town. I used 5 layers of tape on both rims and put the RR on the rims. The fit was tighter than before and I was able to use a floor pump to inflate and get them to seat. Both tires snapped on with a reassuring pop. 

They lost most air sitting during the week but held air for the first ride that I did on them. The next day I had a race and ran them at 30 psi front and 34 rear. I think I was a little soft in the front and may have folded over the front tire in a corner which caused me to crash. The great thing was that there were no burps during the race and since then the tires have not lost any air.

I'm going to increase the front pressure up to 32 and leave the rear as is.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Would a Flow EX be too wide for a Panaracer Cinder X 35?

I would use Crests, but my wife wants to ride in the next race...


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

I have been using Stans Crest rims with yellow tape and Vittoria XG TNT tires this year with great success. Ran pressures sub 20 psi in a muddy race a few weeks ago.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

So far +1 on alpha rims w/ mud 2's (practice plus 1 race - a W). I had to mount up one bead first with tube though. 28f 30r 150lb rider.


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## stevland (Nov 4, 2011)

Poncharelli said:


> My Giant CX bike came with tubeless ready rims (made by DT Swiss for Giant) and tubeless ready tires (Shwalbe for giant, 35mm).
> 
> They are great. No issues so far with 4 races this year and lots of practices in thorn infested areas. Thorns no problem as long as the Stans is topped off.
> 
> Too bad the whole setup is all proprietary to Giant. I think it's worth considering a Giant bike just to have this setup.


you should be able to order just the wheelset through a giant dealer. my teammate had to buy a new one after he ran over his front wheel.


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## Senor Schwinn Pants (Oct 17, 2013)

I am trying to run some tubeless singlespeed wheels. Having a hard time finding a good pair to work with though. anyone have any experience with ss tubeless setups?
also I am interested in doing it as reasonably as possible. it seems the beginning posts are from a few years ago. How has tubeless improved over the years?


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

The rim/tire combination is important. My post is above.

What rim/tire do you have or plan on using?

This article will help you.
Going Tubeless for Cyclocross - Avoiding the Burp, Choosing the Best Tires, and a DIY System (Updated, Part III) | Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos

There are plenty of recent recommendations on this post.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

(807) Recordings said:


> Anyone try the Rocket Ron's going tubeless ?
> From my understanding neither the Rocket Ron or Racing Ralph are actually TLR?
> We are debating these at my bike shop as my next tires on crest 29er rims. I can't get much larger than a 35/1.3 on this Bad Boy I have and from what we could tell only TLR is in 2.1 or larger?
> 
> Hutchinson was also an option but apparently they do not like the Crest Rims.


I do not run TLR nor any of my teammates (not schwalbe though) and we do not have any problems tubeless. See this article Going Tubeless for Cyclocross - Avoiding the Burp, Choosing the Best Tires, and a DIY System (Updated, Part III) | Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos

As far as Hutchinson not working with Crest rims, it will be more challenging to run any CX tire on the wider mtb rim.


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## (807) Recordings (Sep 19, 2009)

scottz123 said:


> I do not run TLR nor any of my teammates (not schwalbe though) and we do not have any problems tubeless. See this article Going Tubeless for Cyclocross - Avoiding the Burp, Choosing the Best Tires, and a DIY System (Updated, Part III) | Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos
> 
> As far as Hutchinson not working with Crest rims, it will be more challenging to run any CX tire on the wider mtb rim.


I think the crest is only 24mm and I used to run 23mm road tires on in the city.
I ran none TLR on MTB with out issues, but CX sizes are sort of a grey area so hence why I asked


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

scottz123 said:


> As far as Hutchinson not working with Crest rims, it will be more challenging to run any CX tire on the wider mtb rim.


The reason Hutchinsons don't work on crests is due to the larger diameter of the rim, not the width. The carbon beads on the Hutchison's don't like to stretch.

I ride CX tires on crests tubeless, as do others I know. All with great luck. None with Hutchinsons, most with clements (pdx or mxp).


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

tiflow_21 said:


> The reason Hutchinsons don't work on crests is due to the larger diameter of the rim, not the width. The carbon beads on the Hutchison's don't like to stretch.
> 
> I ride CX tires on crests tubeless, as do others I know. All with great luck. None with Hutchinsons, most with clements (pdx or mxp).


What pressure's? Weight?

Inner id of crest - 21mm , alpha - 17mm , iron crosz - 20mm. My teamate went from alpha to iron cross & could not keep his mud2's on rimz . I guess u just don't know sometimes. He could not get pdx's to seal @ bead on alpha's either....


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

scottz123 said:


> What pressure's? Inner id of crest - 21mm , alpha - 17mm , iron crosz - 20mm. My teamate went from alpha to iron cross & could not keep his mud2's on rimz . I guess u just don't know sometimes. He could not get pdx's to seal @ bead on alpha's either....


I'm running slightly higher pressures because I'm paranoid and larger than your average cx whippet, around 35f/40r. I found the key to getting the skinnier tires seated on the crest was to always seat one bead with a tube before trying to set them up tubeless. It takes an extra 2 minutes and makes the entire process MUCH easier.

I've heard of others having troubles getting the clements to seal on the alphas. Have you tried seating one bead with a tube before setting them up tubeless?


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Do you think a 35c non tubeless tire (panaracer cinder x folding) will work on a Stans Flow EX?


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

tiflow_21 said:


> I'm running slightly higher pressures because I'm paranoid and larger than your average cx whippet, around 35f/40r. I found the key to getting the skinnier tires seated on the crest was to always seat one bead with a tube before trying to set them up tubeless. It takes an extra 2 minutes and makes the entire process MUCH easier.
> 
> I've heard of others having troubles getting the clements to seal on the alphas. Have you tried seating one bead with a tube before setting them up tubeless?


He could not get bead to seal due to grooves in bead - sealant kept leaking out.

I had to use tubes to mount muds

He ran 28f/30r w/topeak gauge w/muds on alphas @ 175

Reason i mention topeak is becauze i bought one & it read 5lbs less then my pump gauge. I am down to 30f/32r w/topeak @ 150lbs


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

unrooted said:


> Do you think a 35c non tubeless tire (panaracer cinder x folding) will work on a Stans Flow EX?


You 'should' be able to make it work, but it will square out the profile of the tire. You just need to ensure the tire is wider than the rim.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

unrooted said:


> Do you think a 35c non tubeless tire (panaracer cinder x folding) will work on a Stans Flow EX?


It depends on what iz acceptable tire pressure. U weight, etc. Keep in mind your rim is 25tmm. While alpha is 17 and crest 21


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Tried mounting the cinder x 35m on stans flow Did not work as soon as I got to 40 psi the tire blew off the rim. Didn't work on my WTB trail rim setup ghetto either.


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## 3daywheelie (Jan 26, 2005)

*Checking back into thread w/ feedback on a few setups*

I'm checking back in with some of my recent setup experience, here goes:

1. Clement X'PLOR MSO 40mm wide on 1st gen Stan's Alpha 340 rims, w/ just one layer of Stan's yellow tape: not good, blew off rim above 45 psi, and felt like it would burp below that. Did not want to spend the time fussing w/ extra tape, etc. I just want a tire that works out of the box w/ these 340 rims.

2. Clement X'PLOR MSO 40mm wide on 1st gen Stan's Arch rim front, one layer of gorilla tape, Bonty 29er rim (not sure what flavor) rear with Stan's rubber strip: pretty bomber, raced 3 hard dry condition races around 40 psi, with no drama, I'd ride/race this blew off rim above 45 psi, and felt like it would burp below that. Not the lightest setup for cross racing, but moto. These tires hook up real good on dry/dusty corners.

3. Vittoria Cross XG Pro TNT 32mm on 1st gen Stan's Alpha 340 rims, w/ just one layer of Stan's yellow tape; ridden one hard practice session at 40psi front, 42psi rear and I'm happy. Tire was quite hard to get on, but held air for 2+ days WITHOUT any sealant added. I'd never seen that before (I've never dabbled w/ any UST specific MTB tires though). I added 1 scoop of Stan's to each tire and I'm gonna race these wheels over the next few weekends at some NorCal CX races.

Conclusion so far: I really just wanted a plug & play tire for these 1st gen Alpha 340 rims & so far I'm happy w/ these Vittoria Cross XG Pro TNT tires (and they were on sale at Nasbar for $30 recently, which is way cheaper than good tubulars).


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

3daywheelie said:


> I'm checking back in with some of my recent setup experience, here goes:
> 
> 1. Clement X'PLOR MSO 40mm wide on 1st gen Stan's Alpha 340 rims, w/ just one layer of Stan's yellow tape: not good, blew off rim above 45 psi, and felt like it would burp below that. Did not want to spend the time fussing w/ extra tape, etc. I just want a tire that works out of the box w/ these 340 rims.
> 
> ...


What is your weight that you are running 40psi +?


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## 3daywheelie (Jan 26, 2005)

I'm 170lbs kitted up for cross racing


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## dirtdan (Jun 27, 2011)

We've had a lot of success with the Vittoria TNT set up on tubeless specific road rims. For tubeless road/cross it seems that the fit of the tire needs to be a little tighter than your standard clincher set up.
i.e. - Vittoria TNT tires have a slightly smaller diameter than standard clinchers and/or, Stan's Iron Cross rims have a slightly larger diameter than normal 700c rims so that you can run non tubeless tires tubelessly.


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## urbiksux (Feb 15, 2010)

I haven't tried to set up my Kenda Kommando 35mm tires tubeless yet, but I think it is noteworthy that the 35mm Kommando is dwarfed by the much more voluminous "33mm" Clement MXP. I want big and cushy and would not waste your money on the undersized Kommando. Also saw the Giant-propriety not for aftermarket 35mm tubeless Schwalbe Super Swans mounted tubeless on a friend's bike. They looked girthy and great and he said they worked great tubeless.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

I ran the CinderX 35c on Stans Crest-rear end at the CX race yesterday.

I tried to run it at 35 psi, which felt really great on the warm up. Somewhere around lap 2 or 3 I started feeling the tire bottom out-must of burped, was down to 20 psi at the end of the race, fortunately it was one huge sand trap so I don't think I did any damage to the rim.

What PSI are you guys running???

I weigh 195 and I'm riding a mountain bike.


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## warx (Oct 23, 2013)

Just to list a success so far. Stans Ravens CX on Iron Cross @ 32F 35R I am 175 bare. Two races on hard pack and several practices on same. I've mounted Mud 2s on these rims for a single practice session - was fine including one unseen trench where I thought I'd broken the fork. 

If/when the mud comes here to Norcal I'll try the Mud 2s again. Was trying to get Captain 2bliss - but they don't make the CX version anymore.


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## dan_r_reese (May 24, 2006)

A general question about running non tubeless tires tubeless. How are they at high speed descents? I'm a bit leery of hitting 40+ mph on a tire not designed to be run tubeless. Anyone have experience using a non tubeless tire for a gravel grinder or fire road riding in the mountains? Any thoughts are appreciated.


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

I've been running non-tubeless tires on some Stans rims for a bit over a year now on my cross bike. I've hit 35-40 quite a few times on pavement and no issues. I think the first few rides after converting (had run the tires w/ tubes before) I was a little tentative with higher speeds, hard cornering, etc. Once I realized the tires weren't going to blow out or fall off the rim, I don't even think about them now. I did see my top speeds on one short steep descent actually rose about 1-2 MPH with the same tires tubeless vs. tubed. And I am running about 5psi less w/o tubes than I was with tubes. The tires were a pretty tight fit on the rims, I didn't have to use any extra layers of tape over what came on the rims.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

I had a non tubeless Conti 35 tear off my front rim once (stans alpha) coming through a tight turn on pavement. Luckily I was moving pretty slowly or things would've gone horribly wrong. If I do run a non tubeless tire without tubes again I will probably keep to the smaller side and look for the beefiest/tightest bead I can find.

Think this would be less of a concern on gravel because there is less grip to tear the tire off with.


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## MirFlash (Oct 14, 2010)

*ContiDoes*

Does not surprise me, I've never succeeded to get Conti on, either with Alpha400 or Ksyrium.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Use tubeless ready tires guys! It's the safe and reliable option. There are more and more options out there now from Specialized's 2BR CX tire range, Vittoria's TNT CX tires, and Kenda's SCT CX tire range to name just a few. I wouldn't waste my time or money trying to mount CX tires that aren't tubeless ready.


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## The Thug (Nov 16, 2006)

I've set up my Schwalbe Racing Ralph's on WTB i19 Frequency rims as tubeless. No problems so far.


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## chunkmastafunk2 (Sep 15, 2008)

Crest with Conti Cyclocross. Works great. Weeped at first, but held fine.


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## scooterman (Aug 10, 2004)

las, mxp, pdx sealed up on alphas for me with zero issues, they did burp around very hard off camber corners though. I put a mxp on a iron cross and couldnt even get it to burp with my hands at 20 psi.


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## jemlinus (Jul 27, 2008)

Easton XC One wheels with Specialized Trigger Pro 2bliss tires. Couldn't get them to seal for 2 days. I rode them for a 30min. ride on the road at 40psi, burped on big bumps.

I think UST rims are not great for tubeless unless you have UST tires.


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## DG Going Uphill (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm having good luck with Trigger Pro 2bliss on Stan's IronCross. Great tire/rim combo.


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## jemlinus (Jul 27, 2008)

I've successfully converted Alex SUB rims(Standard 30mm rim with 17.5mm ID) tubeless with Kenda Kwicker 32c tires.

Took about 20 minutes to seal all the previous flat holes and bead areas to seal. I took the bike out for a 20km ride and they are holding air.

I pumped them up to 70psi to make sure they don't burp on my commute and went back down to 50~60psi.

EDIT: I've been riding in packed snow trails with 30 psi front, 35psi rear. No trouble so far.


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## williamf777 (Feb 23, 2004)

After about 3 months of running my Surly Knard 700x41 on an Ultegra tubless front wheel I finally got it to burp. I had no problems at 35-40psi. Then I forgot to inflate it before my ride and had about 30psi. While traction and bump compliance was killer it burped after I got on the top side of a rut and dropped it back in onto a rock.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

After reading through this post, decided to take a chance and see how a set of Schwalbe Sammy Slick (700x35c) will work tubeless on Enve Twenty9 XC MTB wheels. Originally wanted to use American Classic valves, but found them to short for the Enve rim depth after a bit of trial and error (mostly error), I finally got things to work using Orange Seal sealant, valves, and 24mm tape. Ended up using 3 layers of the tape per wheel and a Challenge latex tube to get the bead to seat, but looks like the effort paid off after a 2-hour gravel/mixed surface ride with 40-psi to start, tires had only lost ~2-3 psi by the end. Although the tires are still holding air as of this morning, I have ordered a couple sets of the longer Enve tubeless valves which should be the final tweak but may try a set of the Specialized Trigger Pro 2Bliss but are not yet available on the Spec. site.


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

I've been trying to set up Clement MSO 120tpi 40c's on Velocity A23 rims with 2 layers of Stan's tape & Stan's sealant. I'm having a hell of a time getting them to seal up around the bead. What's worse is that when I let all the air out of the front tire, the bead slips back off down into the rim. At 25-30psi I can squeeze the sidewalls & air will escape. I'm sure I wouldn't run less than 38lbs or so but this has me leaning towards tubing them. I've never had trouble setting up a tire tubeless like this -the previous worst was a 26" Kenda Excavator that finally sealed up after a couple of hours. I'm on day 2 with the MSO's...

Any suggestions?


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

As another point of reference. I recently setup a pair of lightly used ritchey speedmax pro 35c tires on stans crests with 2 layers of yellow tape. After seating one bead with a tube, I was able to air up both tires with a floor pump.

I have another stans crest/355 wheelset where I only have one layer of yellow tape installed. This works perfectly for MTB tires, and also works with new/tight cx tires. However, I was having a slight problem getting cx tires that weren't brand new to setup tubeless. It seemed like the tire wasn't sitting very tight against the rim, so all the air pumped in (with a compressor or floor pump) would just escape around the beads and would never actually push the beads of the tire into the rim's bead seat. Due to this I made the decision to use two layers of tape on my newer crest wheelset. Having the extra layer of yellow tape seems to make sense on cx tires where the beads aren't quite as large/robust as on a mountain bike tire. This makes installing tires slightly more difficult, but ensures a tight seal once mounted. I'll likely be going to two layers of yellow tape on the crest/355 wheelset as well since I plan to primarily use it on my cx race bike.


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## digidelia (Oct 28, 2011)

i posted this in the wheels forum, but i figured this thread is more specific

has anyone had luck converting a Maddux CX 3.0 rim (DRX 6000)?


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## mossy74 (Mar 8, 2014)

I've been running alpha 340 wheels with vittoria Xg TNT tyres for about a year and and it's been a great setup. 

Getting a new disc brake cx bike in a few weeks though and was thinking of running the SRAM roam 50 29er wheel set, 21mm ID and 25mm OD, anyone tried these yet?


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

digidelia said:


> i posted this in the wheels forum, but i figured this thread is more specific
> 
> has anyone had luck converting a Maddux CX 3.0 rim (DRX 6000)?


Never tried... That rim came in my CAADX, but have Stan's alpha 400 on it

Sent from my iPhone. There may be horrible grammar and misspelling involved


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

pacenti sl23 / michelin jets / stan stuff, zarro issue for the past 6mo


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## monolith (Jul 10, 2007)

I've had relatively easy times with tubeless CX setup - I've had 35c Ravens, 34c XG Pros (non TNT), 32c XG Pros (TNT), and 35c Ritchey WCS Sheilds mounted on ENVE XC rims.

The Ravens were the most difficult to get mounted and sealed, the TNT XGs the easiest (no surprises there!). Loving the Ritcheys now - nice big volume, plenty of traction (in dry to damp conditions), and still fast on the tarmac. They sealed up really easily for a non UST/Tubeless tyre too, which was a bonus.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

ms6073 said:


> After reading through this post, decided to take a chance and see how a set of Schwalbe Sammy Slick (700x35c) will work tubeless on Enve Twenty9 XC MTB wheels. Originally wanted to use American Classic valves, but found them to short for the Enve rim depth after a bit of trial and error (mostly error), I finally got things to work using Orange Seal sealant, valves, and 24mm tape. Ended up using 3 layers of the tape per wheel and a Challenge latex tube to get the bead to seat, but looks like the effort paid off after a 2-hour gravel/mixed surface ride with 40-psi to start, tires had only lost ~2-3 psi by the end. Although the tires are still holding air as of this morning, I have ordered a couple sets of the longer Enve tubeless valves which should be the final tweak but may try a set of the Specialized Trigger Pro 2Bliss but are not yet available on the Spec. site.


How have your Sammy Slick's been holding up tubeless?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Vittoria XG TNT and Specialized 2bliss is the way to go if you want ease of installation and sealing tubeless. Been running both for a full season of CX racing and some single track riding with no issues. I'm now running them on American Classic 29er Tubeless disc wheel set. The 32 Vittoria measures 34 on this wheel set and the Captain CX 2bliss measures 36. The wider 29er wheel set let the tires expand nicely and they sealed right up immediately with no issues. Oh yeah...I weigh about 170 kitted up to ride.


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## gddyap (Sep 29, 2011)

I successfully converted to tubeless over the weekend. I used the Stan's Cyclocross kit and Michelin Mud 2s on my old Mavic Reflex rims. I replaced the cloth rim tape with two layers of Stan's and then used the rim strips. My only complaint is the rim strips have 44mm valve stems. They are very long. I guess people use some deep rims nowadays. I used an air compressor and wouldn't have been able to do it without one. On one rim, I had to remove the valve core to get enough air in to seat the beads. The bubbles from the soapy water showed the air escaping the beads faster than it could go in with the valve core installed. Then I had to keep my finger over the valve stem while I flipped the wheel around to distribute the sealant. I inflated to 40psi and left them overnight. The next day they were still at 40. I'm hoping to ride this week between rain storms.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I want to try my Conti 42mm Cross Ride/ Speed Ride tires on my Velocity A23's for a gravel race this weekend. I already have two layers of Velocity tape on them and Velocity valves ready to go. anyone with experience with these tires or these rims, or both, as a tubeless combo?


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## Pynchonite (Sep 2, 2013)

I actually had pretty awful luck with Vittoria XG TNT's. Not the performance of the tire - although I didn't think it felt quite as supple as Grifo Open Pro's - but the wear was absolutely terrible. I ended up replacing the rear after only two months of use, having worn clean through the center tread. Now, I ride that bike a LOT, but the Grifo it replaced at least took the better part of a year to wear through. The front (I replaced both at the same time) still looks ok, but the center tread is definitely showing its age. I've got a SB8 in the rear now. It didn't set up easily but it's been a blast since.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Pynchonite said:


> I actually had pretty awful luck with Vittoria XG TNT's. Not the performance of the tire - although I didn't think it felt quite as supple as Grifo Open Pro's - but the wear was absolutely terrible.


Do you ride them on pavement a lot? That is the only area I've really seen problems with wear, but it was bad enough that I used it to justify buying an old road bike 

Did you use the grifos tubeless?


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## Pynchonite (Sep 2, 2013)

Yes to both, but the wear on the Grifos was far less than on the Vittorias, like 10 months versus 3 with comparable use.

Would def buy a commuter, but I have an mtb and right now s-1=2, unfortunately.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Good to know - the Grifo is my favorite tire but I haven't tried setting it up tubeless. Don't think I can rock a blackwall tire on my new bike


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

mack_turtle said:


> I want to try my Conti 42mm Cross Ride/ Speed Ride tires on my Velocity A23's for a gravel race this weekend. I already have two layers of Velocity tape on them and Velocity valves ready to go. anyone with experience with these tires or these rims, or both, as a tubeless combo?


Hey Mack,

I have a Langster single speed with Schwalbe Extremo ZX 700C x 23 tubeless tires mounted on A23 wheels. I used two wraps of Stan's tape inside the rims and things sealed up well, holding 80-110 psi. Rims are good. :thumbsup:

Can't say how fat tires, especially those not rated tubeless, would work. Be careful using high pressures with non-tubeless tires since the tire beads are not designed to hold in the rim without a tube and failure could be catastrophic.


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## monolith (Jul 10, 2007)

Pynchonite said:


> I actually had pretty awful luck with Vittoria XG TNT's. Not the performance of the tire - although I didn't think it felt quite as supple as Grifo Open Pro's - but the wear was absolutely terrible. I ended up replacing the rear after only two months of use, having worn clean through the center tread.


Totally agree - I nearly wore through a brand new rear tyre in the course of a three day/1,100km mixed terrain brevet this year...


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## dan_r_reese (May 24, 2006)

I just mounted a set of Clement MXPs on Mavic CXP 21 rims. 1 layer of Gorilla tape and Stan's rim strips. I had to take the valve cores out to get the tires to seat. 2 oz of Stans Fluid in each. They lost pressure overnight, but I aired them back up to about 30 psi and took a short ride on pavement and then some soggy grassy trails. I will take them out on some trails this weekend and see how they perform.


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## Pynchonite (Sep 2, 2013)

In the interests of fairness, the XG TNT's have been stellar as far as seal and toughness of the sidewall are concerned (though getting them over the rim makes me dread ever having to change one all by my lonesome). My CX bike is often also my mountain bike, and I've put those tires through sharp, pointy hell without a peep. If Vittoria increased the hardness of the center tread, these tires would be better than the Grifo's.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

mack_turtle said:


> I want to try my Conti 42mm Cross Ride/ Speed Ride tires on my Velocity A23's for a gravel race this weekend. I already have two layers of Velocity tape on them and Velocity valves ready to go. anyone with experience with these tires or these rims, or both, as a tubeless combo?


I'd be interested to see if this works.

Same tires on Stan's Crests and had one blow up in my face and the other when I hit the first bump. Pretty disappointed because I thought Stan's rims would hold most anything. After all that money I only lost a few ounces and still have to run tubes.


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## C Cow (Aug 2, 2007)

redwarrior- I admit defeat on my new MSO's. I tried all my tricks and can't get the bead to seat. I found "part 1" of the review for these tires on gravelgrindernews.com after I tried and tried to sea them, (I read part two first, and bought the tires). Part 1 said Clement does not recommend tubeless setup. But I've only been beaten by one other set of tires in 7 years of "anything can go tubeless". Lighter fluid and a match is all I have left to try. Maybe I need to put on 4 layers of Gorilla tape.

Moo


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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

*Surly Knard*

I have velocity A23's and cannot get the knard to seal...too loose on the rim...no problems with others....Running a tube for the knard...whats the secret?


williamf777 said:


> After about 3 months of running my Surly Knard 700x41 on an Ultegra tubless front wheel I finally got it to burp. I had no problems at 35-40psi. Then I forgot to inflate it before my ride and had about 30psi. While traction and bump compliance was killer it burped after I got on the top side of a rut and dropped it back in onto a rock.


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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

WOW! I just got my Surly Knard to seal....but won't seal with Stans sealant...soI'll run it w/o for awhile....


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## 69erEverything (Mar 26, 2012)

Just stepping in to say tubeless CX sucks. After 7 years of trying all the options i'm done. Not reliable for racing. Hello tubulars i'm ready for you and all your glue.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

69erEverything said:


> Just stepping in to say tubeless CX sucks. After 7 years of trying all the options i'm done. Not reliable for racing. Hello tubulars i'm ready for you and all your glue.


Have you tried tubeless rims with tubeless ready CX tires? If you haven't then no wonder you're giving up.


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## dan_r_reese (May 24, 2006)

dan_r_reese said:


> I just mounted a set of Clement MXPs on Mavic CXP 21 rims. 1 layer of Gorilla tape and Stan's rim strips. I had to take the valve cores out to get the tires to seat. 2 oz of Stans Fluid in each. They lost pressure overnight, but I aired them back up to about 30 psi and took a short ride on pavement and then some soggy grassy trails. I will take them out on some trails this weekend and see how they perform.


I have ridden this setup 3 times on trails. About 30-35 psi. No burping issues. However, I hit a rock and put a small hole in the rear tire. Stan's would not seal it, it was shooting out of the hole. I used a can of Caffè Latex and it slowly sealed. I had to ride gently home on a squishy tire. It seems to have sealed now, but it would not have been sufficient for a longer ride home.


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## Manning (Apr 11, 2007)

Just another data point....

Clement MXP 33 (measure 35mm) 30 tpi on Some Alex rim (whatever is stock on Kona Jake the Snake) with a Stan's cyclocross rim strip, no problem. Some pinholes in the sidewall, but no excessive leakage. Rode quite a bit on it. 

Clement USH 35mm (that measure 33mm) 120 tpi on the same Alex rim and Stan's cyclocross rim strip. One tire has sealed up relatively well with one scoop of stan's. The other tire looks like a bulldog has slobbered all over it. Leaks pretty bad from just above the bead. It has 1 1/2 scoops of stan's and a teaspoon of latex mold builder. Haven't rode but a few miles on these.

Edit, the problem tire finally sealed up.

Edit #2.....I've gone back to tubes after a mystery flat with tubeless (and it was the tire that sealed up fairly easily, not the problem tire). I cannot recommend Clement tires for tubeless.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

dan_r_reese said:


> I have ridden this setup 3 times on trails. About 30-35 psi. No burping issues. However, I hit a rock and put a small hole in the rear tire. Stan's would not seal it, it was shooting out of the hole. I used a can of Caffè Latex and it slowly sealed. I had to ride gently home on a squishy tire. It seems to have sealed now, but it would not have been sufficient for a longer ride home.


Dan 
I would try adding latex mold builder to Stans, like Manning mentioned above. I had same thing happen to me with a bonty 29-0...unfortunately had to figure out stans wouldn't seal during race


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## dan_r_reese (May 24, 2006)

scottz123 said:


> Dan
> I would try adding latex mold builder to Stans, like Manning mentioned above. I had same thing happen to me with a bonty 29-0...unfortunately had to figure out stans wouldn't seal during race


I will try that. I was also thinking of trying Orange Seal.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

dan_r_reese said:


> I will try that. I was also thinking of trying Orange Seal.


Information below provided by mtbr member "dwt"
_
"One part mold builder liquid latex ( buy on Amazon or art supply store), 2 +/- parts propylene glycol anti freeze. This is the pink/red colored non toxic stuff used for RV's, not the toxic green stuff used for cars, available at any auto
Parts store

This mix will seat and seal a tire, but not so good at plugging punctures. For that, add regular Slime auto tire sealant to the mix

Now you're good to go"_

I got my mold builder from Hobby Lobby, you can also find it at some Michaels, be sure to look up their 40% off coupons before buying
Castin' Craft Mold Builder Liquid Latex | Shop Hobby Lobby


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## miatagal96 (Jul 5, 2005)

I've been running Michelin Mud 2's on Stans Ironcross wheels at 30 lbs. I had some problems initially getting them to hold air. I put a tube in to shape the tire, removed the tube (left one bead seated), put soapy water around rim and pumped. I got one tire to pump and had to take the other to the gas station. They worked well through cyclocross season; however, I've done 2 mtb races (with cx categories) with them and I got sidewall gashes (on the rear) and flatted in both races. The second one was very small (Stans didn't seal it).

I love riding my cx bike in mtb races and wonder if cx tires just aren't made for this kind of abuse (e.g. rocky courses), or whether there are tires that will seat that have stronger sidewalls than the Mud 2's. Thoughts anyone?


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## gddyap (Sep 29, 2011)

I blew out a Mud2 on the rear on my CX running tubeless on some old Mavic Reflex rims. No problem at 40psi but tried it at 35ish and lost a bead. I used the Stan's kit. I talked to Michelin and they of course do not recommend running the Mud2 tubeless. They wouldn't comment on whether they are releasing a tubeless compatible tire either. I talked to Stan's and they said the fit of the tire on the rim is crucial. I'm having the wheel rebuilt with a WTB Chriscross rim and will run a Kenda tubeless compatible tire. I will post up after I get the wheel back.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

miatagal96 said:


> I've been running Michelin Mud 2's on Stans Ironcross wheels at 30 lbs. I had some problems initially getting them to hold air. I put a tube in to shape the tire, removed the tube (left one bead seated), put soapy water around rim and pumped. I got one tire to pump and had to take the other to the gas station. They worked well through cyclocross season; however, I've done 2 mtb races (with cx categories) with them and I got sidewall gashes (on the rear) and flatted in both races. The second one was very small (Stans didn't seal it).
> 
> I love riding my cx bike in mtb races and wonder if cx tires just aren't made for this kind of abuse (e.g. rocky courses), or whether there are tires that will seat that have stronger sidewalls than the Mud 2's. Thoughts anyone?


I had same issue mounting new muds, even using compressor.

I ran Muds on alpha 340's last year at 27r/25f (?) @ 150lbs with no problems. My teamate (who I bought this wheelset from), could not get muds to stay on his Ironcross, even though they worked on alphas. His thought was that the Irons were a little wider. He has had no problems with specialized captains - not sure about sidewalls


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

With all the options of tubeless compatible tires and tubeless rims why are people still going with unproven methods? I am not trying to be a jerk, I just do not see why people are risking a possible nasty crash with ghetto setups. I have run Kenda Slat Six SCT on both Alpha 340s and Crests with no issues. I have been down to 21 psi f/r on the Alphas without any burps (I weigh 145). My only hope is that some wider options, like 38-44c, that are tubeless compatible start coming out for those of us that do not care about UCI rules.


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## 69erEverything (Mar 26, 2012)

You make it seem like there are a lot of tubeless ready cx tires. There aren't. The tread patterns that people want don't come tubeless ready.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

69erEverything said:


> You make it seem like there are a lot of tubeless ready cx tires. There aren't. The tread patterns that people want don't come tubeless ready.


That's okay. Many non-TLR tires will work tubeless just fine, with the right rims.


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## 69erEverything (Mar 26, 2012)

Just fine isn't good enough.


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

69erEverything said:


> You make it seem like there are a lot of tubeless ready cx tires. There aren't. The tread patterns that people want don't come tubeless ready.


Kenda has six models with one size aleady SCT and a second size listed on their website, so 12 there.
Hutchinson has 3
WTB has 1
Notubes has 2
Specialized has 4
Vittoria has 2
Maxxis 1

That is 25 possible choices. To me that is a lot.
I am sure there are tires I am missing too.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

Keep in mind, how many mtb racers actually DO NOT run TR's due to weight, But i could see it on CX wheels, due to set up being more challenging


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## 3daywheelie (Jan 26, 2005)

*Clement X'Plor MSO 40mm 120tpi working great on Shimano WH-7850 front wheel*

I'm jumping back in with my latest (successful) setup: I scored a near new Shimano Dura Ace WH-7850 front wheel recently (scandium rim, tubeless compatible, no spoke holes, etc) and thought I'd try to set up my Clement X'Plor MSO 40mm 120tpi tire on it for the upcoming Lost & Found race happening near Lake Davis, CA on May 31st.

From my previous posts/experience, this tire did not like my Stan's 340 rims at all, blowing off the rim around 45 psi. This time I took the tire to 50 psi upon install (no problems), then backed the pressure off to 45psi, & went out for a 4+ hour mixed dirt/single track shakedown ride in Marin this Sunday. ALL GOOD, no burping, no nothing, felt rock solid the whole ride. I used Caffe Latex b/c I hear that's more friendly to the scandium rims. Now I need to track down a matching rear wheel.

Bike set up is a 2011 Kona Major Jake w/ TRP CX9 brakes, FYI. The 40mm Clements fit front & rear w/ room to spare.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

3daywheelie said:


> I'm jumping back in with my latest (successful) setup: I scored a near new Shimano Dura Ace WH-7850 front wheel recently (scandium rim, tubeless compatible, no spoke holes, etc) and thought I'd try to set up my Clement X'Plor MSO 40mm 120tpi tire on it for the upcoming Lost & Found race happening near Lake Davis, CA on May 31st.
> 
> From my previous posts/experience, this tire did not like my Stan's 340 rims at all, blowing off the rim around 45 psi. This time I took the tire to 50 psi upon install (no problems), then backed the pressure off to 45psi, & went out for a 4+ hour mixed dirt/single track shakedown ride in Marin this Sunday. ALL GOOD, no burping, no nothing, felt rock solid the whole ride. I used Caffe Latex b/c I hear that's more friendly to the scandium rims. Now I need to track down a matching rear wheel.
> 
> Bike set up is a 2011 Kona Major Jake w/ TRP CX9 brakes, FYI. The 40mm Clements fit front & rear w/ room to spare.


I am curious why you prefer to ride such high pressures (to me at least). What is your weight?


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## 3daywheelie (Jan 26, 2005)

I'm 170lb. 45 psi in a 40mm wide tire when I'm riding rocky/dry/rutted single track at speed doesn't feel high to me, but I'm erring on side of not trashing my fancy new front rim. By squeezing the tire, and that one ride I did, I definitely feel I could case the rim if I got sloppy going fast at 45 psi (hitting a water bar too hard, getting blown off line, etc). Also, the Clement sidewall notes rec'd 55-90 psi for this tire, so I thought I'd start at 45. I'm no expert on this whole "gravel" thing, but 45 felt just about right. Now if I was riding some grassy/muddy euro type cross course on the level, that'd be a whole different story, with a whole different tire...


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## El Train (Apr 21, 2007)

anyone have success with split tube method on cx tires? haven't seen it mentioned but is pretty bomber with mtn tires...looking to set my cx bike up with the non-tubeless tires I already have.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

I've tried the stans rimstrips, basically the same thing. Definitely helps with looser tires but I wouldn't consider it bomber.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Thought I would comment on the combination I've been running for a couple of months now. I'm running Specialized Tracer Pro 2Bliss on Velocity A23 rims (the A23 Pro build wheelset to be precise) with Cafelatex as the sealant. I have to say that I am quite impressed. They hold air much better than the bike did with latex tubes. They are very compliant and fast. 

Mounting was very hard though. I have a 60gal compressor and that would not seat the tire. In the end I mounted them with a tube. That seated the bead into the rim. I left that for a couple of days. Then I deflated the tube and popped/opened only one side of the tire off the rim. I removed the tube and installed the valves. Then I flipped the tire over so that the open side was down so that gravity could help. Then a ful blast of air from the compressor. I had to push it to around 65-70 psi for the bead to then seat again. Then deflate and add sealant through the value.

On my first ride I was running the wheels at around 30-35psi. I was alarmed at just how much squish there was in the tire and how it can "roll" on the rim. It freaked me out so much that now I tend to run 45psi. It's sill comfy and compliant but I feel it is just a little more secure and it protects my rims from the inevitable rocky trails I ride.


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## russomc (Aug 15, 2014)

Hi everyone. I'm new here. Roadie finally giving CX a try. Team races Trek bikes and the crocketts/boones comes with their Bontrager tubeless-ready wheel. I'm 139-145 lbs depending on the day and interested in CX tubeless. Hearing a lot of negatives but I'd like to see if anyone has experience w/ the Bonty TLR hoops raced with tubeless tires, and what set-ups have worked well for you.

Thanks for your help.
Michael


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

russomc said:


> Hi everyone. I'm new here. Roadie finally giving CX a try. Team races Trek bikes and the crocketts/boones comes with their Bontrager tubeless-ready wheel. I'm 139-145 lbs depending on the day and interested in CX tubeless. Hearing a lot of negatives but I'd like to see if anyone has experience w/ the Bonty TLR hoops raced with tubeless tires, and what set-ups have worked well for you.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> Michael


If you use tubeless specific rims and tires you should have a pretty fool-proof setup. I have both Stan's Alpha 400's and Crests. Currently running Kenda Slant Six SCT tires on the Crests and looking for a more mud specific tire for the second wheelset. I weigh 145 and had the Kenda's on the Alpha 400's last year as low as 21psi. No burping. No experience with the Bontrager rims though, sorry.


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Hope Hoops utilising their Pro II Evo straight pull hubs, Stans Alpha 400 rims, Stan's Tubeless kit and Hutchinson Toro CX Tubeless Protect'Air Max tyres. Pretty happy with this setup.


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## tswitz1234 (Jul 21, 2008)

russomc said:


> Hi everyone. I'm new here. Roadie finally giving CX a try. Team races Trek bikes and the crocketts/boones comes with their Bontrager tubeless-ready wheel. I'm 139-145 lbs depending on the day and interested in CX tubeless. Hearing a lot of negatives but I'd like to see if anyone has experience w/ the Bonty TLR hoops raced with tubeless tires, and what set-ups have worked well for you.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> Michael


I have the Boone 5 disc and am in the process of setting up tubeless. I've been able to convert the stock CX3 to tubeless using Gorilla tape and Stans, but can burp by hand at 40 psi. I've switched to a pair of Vittoria XG TNT to see if these are better, and so far they are. I may need to add another wrap of tape as I can still get a really small wisp by hand. The shop I got the bike from didn't recommend the Bonty strips. I've heard that Bonty is coming out with a TLR ready CX tire that Comptom supposedly ran down to 17 PSI.

Boone is a sweet ride!


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

tswitz1234 said:


> I have the Boone 5 disc and am in the process of setting up tubeless. I've been able to convert the stock CX3 to tubeless using Gorilla tape and Stans, but can burp by hand at 40 psi. I've switched to a pair of Vittoria XG TNT to see if these are better, and so far they are. I may need to add another wrap of tape as I can still get a really small wisp by hand. The shop I got the bike from didn't recommend the Bonty strips. I've heard that Bonty is coming out with a TLR ready CX tire that Comptom supposedly ran down to 17 PSI.
> 
> Boone is a sweet ride!


wait, what??? they DIDN'T recommend the Bontrager rim strips? My experience (albeit limited to one wheelset) with the Bontrager rim strips was absolutely glitch free and super simple to set up the tires. Everything I've ever read about the Bontrager system is that it is one of, if not, THE easiest system for problem-free tubeless setups.

You need a new LBS.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

mudge said:


> wait, what??? they DIDN'T recommend the Bontrager rim strips? My experience (albeit limited to one wheelset) with the Bontrager rim strips was absolutely glitch free and super simple to set up the tires. Everything I've ever read about the Bontrager system is that it is one of, if not, THE easiest system for problem-free tubeless setups.
> 
> You need a new LBS.


+1 Only downside is weight compared to other options (stans tape for example)


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

scottz123 said:


> +1 Only downside is weight compared to other options (stans tape for example)


That's funny. The Bontrager strips are a lightweight plastic, not lead. .


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Yup another fan of the Bonty strips here!


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

mudge said:


> That's funny. The Bontrager strips are a lightweight plastic, not lead. .


And here I thought they were made out of rubber, at least I made you laugh.

Bonty rim strips = 35g (1.23oz)
Stans yellow tape = 5g (0.17oz)

Some would agree this is the most imporrtant place to save weight - rotating mass at the outer diameter of wheel.

Save 2oz of rotating mass AND spend less $, one of best weight savings per $, if you can get away with stans tape (I do and have no problems)


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

Anyone try WTB TCS on Alpha 340 0r 400 rims? I have found only one mention of of someone using Crosswolf TCS tires on 400's, but everything else I find says the UST bead will be too tight.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

My newest version of tubeless, got some Nextie 50mm tubeless aero's with Vittoria pro TNT's fitted at 40psi.... feelin sweet.


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

ozzybmx said:


> My newest version of tubeless, got some Nextie 50mm tubeless aero's with Vittoria pro TNT's fitted at 40psi.... feelin sweet.


Digging that set up Ozzy. Any issues getting them set up tubless?


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

First attempt at cx tubeless, used Mavic Open Pros and Challenge Fangos

What worked: A couple wraps of fiber (strand) tape, valves, sealant and a little glitter. Inflated right away with just a floor pump. 

What didn't: Thinking I had to set the bead, I jammed the rear up to 90psi before it exploded off the rim, spraying everything in the garage with glittery sealant and leaving me functionally deaf. 

Ultimately, they were much less work than tubulars. I set them at 40psi and raced a pretty dry course yesterday. They held up despite some nasty hits and rolls that had me wondering. I don't think I would trust them much below that pressure so we'll see as the season progresses.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

chuckie33 said:


> Digging that set up Ozzy. Any issues getting them set up tubless?


None at all, track pump set up first time. Got quite a few K's on them now with no issues.


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

Sizzler said:


> I set them at 40psi and raced a pretty dry course yesterday. They held up despite some nasty hits and rolls that had me wondering. I don't think I would trust them much below that pressure so we'll see as the season progresses.


Running at 40psi defeats going tubeless as I can run clinchers with tubes at that pressure without flat issues. A reliable tubeless setup should get you into the mid 20psi range. I weigh 145lbs and can go down to about 21psi with Kenda Slant 6 SCT tires on Alpha 400 and Crest rims...and I only run yellow tape on the Alphas.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

offrhodes42 said:


> Running at 40psi defeats going tubeless as I can run clinchers with tubes at that pressure without flat issues. A reliable tubeless setup should get you into the mid 20psi range. I weigh 145lbs and can go down to about 21psi with Kenda Slant 6 SCT tires on Alpha 400 and Crest rims...and I only run yellow tape on the Alphas.


Yes and no. The course I raced was fast and dry, I would have run 40 in my tubulars as well. But, Open Pro's aren't designed to be tubeless rims, so I wouldn't really consider them reliable to begin with. Like you, I have Crest rims with yellow tape on my mtb and wouldn't hesitate to run lower pressures on them because that's what they're made for. I'll just have to experiment with lower pressures until I know exactly how low I can get, but until then I'll sacrifice some psi for reliability in a race.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Sorry must comment - @145# I agree you should be able to get to low 20s - but that is entirely based on rider weight and tire size - I can't run a tubed cross tire at 40 without pinch flatting but I can run tubeless there so it is an advantage.


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

If you look at sizzler's setup, looks like burping would be an issue when the pressure is in the low 20 psi...

Maybe a Stan's rimstrip may help him to reduce the pressure


Sent from my iPhone. There may be horrible grammar and misspelling involved


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Sizzler said:


> Yes and no. The course I raced was fast and dry, I would have run 40 in my tubulars as well...


That may be so, but you shouldn't run them that high, unless you just want higher rolling resistance, less comfort, and less grip. It's your call, ultimately.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

mudge said:


> That may be so, but you shouldn't run them that high, unless you just want higher rolling resistance, less comfort, and less grip. It's your call, ultimately.


Won the race, so it seems to have been the correct choice.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Sizzler said:


> Won the race, so it seems to have been the correct choice.


Might have been an okay choice, under the circumstances. Doesn't mean it was the best choice. The science on rolling resistance and traction, re: inflation, is pretty compelling.

Congrats on your win, btw


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

mudge said:


> Might have been an okay choice, under the circumstances. Doesn't mean it was the best choice. The science on rolling resistance and traction, re: inflation, is pretty compelling.
> 
> Congrats on your win, btw


Thanks, do you happen to know any good articles or info about psi as it relates to rolling resistance, traction, etc? I'm interested to hear more. I've experimented a bit with low pressures in my tubs and personally felt it makes the bike handle less predictably and felt slower on hard surfaces, but clearly provides traction benefits in sloppy, wet conditions.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Sizzler said:


> Thanks, do you happen to know any good articles or info about psi as it relates to rolling resistance, traction, etc? I'm interested to hear more. I've experimented a bit with low pressures in my tubs and personally felt it makes the bike handle less predictably and felt slower on hard surfaces, but clearly provides traction benefits in sloppy, wet conditions.


You can start by searching L. Zinn's articles on Velonews. They often contain links to the actual research. I believe it was J. Powers who also wrote recently about getting over the concerns about squishy tires.


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## Bikerector (Jan 24, 2014)

Schwalbe had a research paper about lower pressures aimed at mtb setups. I have the pdf saved on my home desktop. They have the conclusion, so to speak, on their website:
Rolling resistance - Schwalbe Professional Bike Tires

I believe there are limits, obviously, as a flat tire is not the fastest and eventually going too low you lose support of the tire and it likes to get squirmy under cornering loads. Going from a good grass pressure onto paved corners can be scary as **** sometimes. Had this happen to me in a training ride last night with a new set of tires that like higher pressure (mid to high 30's) whereas my old setup loved the 30 psi range (I'm 220 lbs for reference).


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Bikerector said:


> Rolling resistance - Schwalbe Professional Bike Tires


Good stuff, thanks!


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

I setup the Crest 29 wheels with Hope Pro 2 EVO Hubs from my MTB on my Cross Bike with a set of Michelin Mud 2 tires last night to try in our first cross race of the season this Sunday. With the Hope hubs it was a very easy to switch the hubs from 15mm and 142x12 to QR 9mm.


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## Hdpearson13 (Nov 19, 2013)

I have a Mso on stans ironcross on back. Live it at 38-40 psi. I have a deformity on my front iron cross a wich blew off my Mso in the front twice and ruined my Mso 40s sidewall at 38-42 at most psi. Stans is having me take emery cloth to sharp edge on deformed area. Now I got a rim with paint off tring to lightly sand off hurries area but will have to take tops off and get mini files to correct bead seat area to my liking. I am holding off for tubeless tires( hutch 34 pira, raven35 and a trigger 38). Hopefully they seat and sidewall isn't pulled in to rim to much in that area. Has anyone else had this issue. I've been sitting on this for two weeks. I spent more money on these rims and tires than I've put I. Rest of this bike. I've tried using a tube, extra sealant and tried a slant six off my neighbors bike and still had leak in Same place but haven't had a chance to try it back on to try it with this deformed area sanded. Any one with maybe a good tire combo or experience with what I have coming would be greatly appreciated. I will say though stans was very great to talk to on phone and just wish I could get the stars to align so I can get my tires and see if suggestion work because my intail pics to them we're tough to see do to placement and black color. I don't mind the paint missing now because Iam sure it I'll be missing some once I can get it off my work stand and on bike with rear that's been serving me real we'll. 

Ps thanks everyone


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

I have a rear Crest with a good size dent that has been holding my Slant 6 SCT with no issues. Ran it at 24psi this weekend (I weight 145lbs) setup tubeless on a very rooty and bumpy course. I would suggest getting a sealant compatible tire and giving that a go.


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## Seph (Jul 27, 2013)

Just mounted a set of Specialized Tracer Pros on a pair of Stan's Ironcross wheels. The plus side is that I could have inflated them with a hand pump. The downside was that mounting the tires was a major battle. I haven't had to use a pair of tire irons in decades, so it took me forever to find a pair in my spares bin. Even then it was touch an go for a while. If I ever get a flat that the sealant won't take care of, I'll be walking back to my truck because there isn't any way in hell I'm getting the tires back off any time soon.


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## Hdpearson13 (Nov 19, 2013)

Still waiting on tire. I did try a slant six ust that my neighbor had. I sanded off a good 1/8-1/4 inch raised pointed area where the rim must be joind together. The raised area would be where top of bead seats. There's no way it could have sealed there the sealant would slow it couldn't ride it far and after a couple of hours there was no pressure. Hopefully can get tires tonight or tommorow. Should be end of week for the hutch and stans.


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## Pynchonite (Sep 2, 2013)

Just mounted up a Spesh Tracer in the front and Trigger in the back on a set of Iron Cross rims. So far, they've performed admirably on the sharp, pointy trails I train on. Even had a few hits that I swore should have punched through the sidewall that turned up nothing. Traction is ok in the rear - not as grabby in loose sand/foot-thick fine dust as a Vittoria XG TNT Pro, but on par with Kenda's SB8. The Tracer's been excellent at holding the line so far: a lot of the trails here have become extremely loose from rain but so far I haven't felt it slide.

I had briefly had a Kenda Kommando mounted up on the rear. I do not recommend this tire for the rear if you so much as think about riding pavement: it wore through before I could come on here to complain about it. Traction was much better than the Trigger in sand (that's all we've got here in the Salt Lake Valley, generally), but let us hope the Trigger wears better.


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## Chasseur (Jan 28, 2007)

Last year set up open pros with 2 layers of gorilla, stans strip, and non-TNT XGs (and sealant obv). I raced those at I thought about 42/40, twice, no problems. I'm 165. I then used some Tracer 2bliss on Shimano 6700s with on layer of stans tape and sealant at 34/32. It was super compliant, but the tires felt really floppy under harder turns, like the casing itself was rolling over a bit. I've raced tubulars for many seasons, the motion didn't totally freak me out. Woulda added air but had no time after preview. So...I burp flatted the rear, swapped that out, then crashed when the front folded over- no burp, it just sorta laid down. TURNS OUT- my pressure was actually 22/20. Yes, I know that sounds ridiculous, I feel like an idiot. I've since raced them at actual 28/26, they were great.
This also means that I probably raced the open pro/XGs in the upper 20s, which I would not have trusted if I'd known, but take that for what it's worth. They did feel very good, no wonder I was totally amazed at the suppleness at (false) 40 psi.


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## vs779 (Dec 20, 2003)

Running the Hutchison Piranha 2 CX Tubeless 34mm @ 24-26 psi on Hed Ardeness + FR Disc with 0 burps and easy install. I weigh 165 and I did a bunch of off camber grass testing down to 20 psi and no burps. The tire feel's best at mid 20's to me as I don't like the mushy feeling. I have a set of Toro's and Black Mamba's I will try this weekend and report back. As I said these tires go on and off so easy changing tires is a non isuue even on race day.


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## vs779 (Dec 20, 2003)

vs779 said:


> Running the Hutchison Piranha 2 CX Tubeless 34mm @ 24-26 psi on Hed Ardeness + FR Disc with 0 burps and easy install. I weigh 165 and I did a bunch of off camber grass testing down to 20 psi and no burps. The tire feel's best at mid 20's to me as I don't like the mushy feeling. I have a set of Toro's and Black Mamba's I will try this weekend and report back. As I said these tires go on and off so easy changing tires is a non isuue even on race day.


Tried the Toro Tubeless 32 in grass race conditions today at 25 PSI front and rear with no burps and a bit of fold in the rear like a tubular at low PSI. The tires roll a bit slower compared to the Pirhana but the traction makes up for it IMO. That's my go to tire til the grond is frozen.


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

Today I had my first dnf in a race in a long time. It was my fault due to maintenance vs setup. I punctured my rear tire during my CX race today. I was running a non tubeless Schwalbe RR on stan's rims. I should have topped off the sealant and should have had a spare wheel or bike in the pit to save my race but I didn't. 

The last time I put sealant in the tires was June, 2 oz per wheel. I pulled the tires off the rim after the race and they were bone dry. 

I switched the tires over to Vittoria TNT tires for my next race, Iron Cross. I was leery of running the schwalbes and today made me take a more cautious approach. The schwalbes would have probably been fine but I feel a little better running tubeless specific tires for such a long race.

After this Iron Cross, I may look a picking up a new set of tires, possibly Kenda SCT tires, Stan's tires, or a new set of vittoria tires.


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## Hdpearson13 (Nov 19, 2013)

2blias 38 triggers in front at 31 psi and Mso 40s at 33. Got the stans ironcross to keep air after sanding the blemish. I could go less but run some heavy mountain trails with sharp large rock on fast downhill trails(probally wrong bike). Killed every tube I had on stock weinman front waiting on triggers and blemish fix on ironcross .


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## headsup (Sep 2, 2014)

Maxxis is relatively new to the tubeless CX game with their updated tubeless-ready Mud Wrestler. Anyone using that tire yet? I'm going to be installing them on a set of Stan's Grail rims and curious how it's going for people. Thanks!


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## Chasseur (Jan 28, 2007)

I raced the Hutchinson Piranha 2 34 width at 33/31psi on a very fast, firm track at Valmont yesterday, they were great, noticeably better than Tracers on similar Valmont course weeks ago. Even though the shoulder knobs are somewhat small on Hutch, they did a great job on the dusty hardpack. I had a couple drifts, but the release and catch was very smooth and predictable with no burp. These tires are tubeless on AC 2218 rims, and they fit VERY tightly- so tightly that I lost 45 kfg of spoke tension front and rear compared to unmounted. This was problematic for tensioning- I uptensioned the wheels with the tires mounted to make sure that NDS spokes are ok (113kgf DS/49kgf NDS).


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

I know there are a lot of us waiting on higher volume tubeless compatible cross tires, and WTB is now shipping the 35c Cross Boss, but I also like Kenda tires. I sent them an email since there are SCT options listed on their website in a few larger widths. This is the response I got:

We do have several higher volume SCT casing tread options in the works. Currently the Kommando X Pro 700x33 (212456) is available in a SCT version. We were hoping to have all these ready for this cross season but it’s going to be closer to early spring when we have these into the marketplace. Hope your season is going well.

I only have 1 or 2 races left for my cross season, so I am willing to wait for Spring to see what other options become available.


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## tswitz1234 (Jul 21, 2008)

headsup said:


> Maxxis is relatively new to the tubeless CX game with their updated tubeless-ready Mud Wrestler. Anyone using that tire yet? I'm going to be installing them on a set of Stan's Grail rims and curious how it's going for people. Thanks!


I just set up a pair of these on Bonty TLR that came on the Boone. So far, I really like them - they seem fairly fast rolling (faster at least to the Vittoria XGs), supple feeling, and really grippy in turns in mainly dry/sandy/hardpack conditions. Hopefully, I'll try them in the soft soon as we're starting to get rain here in NorCal. They were easy to set up.


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Just picked up a set on my favourite CX tyres, Bontrager CX0 but this time they are in 33c and TLR, looking forward to trying them out when my new bike arrives.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

I just put WTB Cross Boss tires on some Felt CX wheels (stock on a 2015 F65X) with 2 layers of gorilla tape. They aired up with a floor pump as if I were inflating a tube.

VERY tight fit though, if I ever re-tape I'll try 1 layer of tape.


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## Chasseur (Jan 28, 2007)

I swapped out Specialized Tracer front to a new Vittoria XL Pro TNT 33mm on a Shimano 6700 with one new layer of Stans tape and 1.3 oz of sealant. The whole swap took under 20 minutes. The tire does not fit that tightly really, but the carcass/bead is so stiff that I used a little lever action. Now that I think of it, I didn't even use soap. This was the easiest tireless mount I've done, it inflated with my floor pump and didn't ooze a drop of sealant. On the narrow 6700, it measures right at 33 mm. I'd like to try this on a wider rim. 

Within 1.5 hours I was in my warmup laps for a race at 27 psi, it was was fine. It is not a supple tire at all, but it is very stable and is very good at carving through soft mud and firmish mud chicanes, and it shed muck well. On long firmer straights it felt very slow, but I think it was worth it for the turny sections.


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

I switched out my Vittoria XG TNTs for Bontrager CX3 tlr tires. I liked the Vittoria's but wanted something with more grip for cornering which was where I felt the XGs lacked.

The CX3's went on my stan's crest and iron cross rims with no problems. I heard the pop when I got to about 45 psi. They sat for a week until today when I used them in a race today.

The course was mostly grass but the corners had that soft slippery mud where the XG's let me wanting more. I aired the CX3's to about 28 front and 30 rear. No burbing at all and I didn't bottom out on the rims. I may have been able to go a little lower in air pressure. 

They rolled well on pavement and on the straights but did what I wanted and gripped well in the corners. They gave me a more secure feeling when I went into a corner a little to fast.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

I wish the bonty tires came in wider widths. Tread pattern looks great


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## Chasseur (Jan 28, 2007)

Back to Hutch Piranha2 34s 28/26.5 on a dry dusty course with some powdery loose turns and a bunch of tricky off camber runs and switches in tricky dirt/grass. I think a Chicane woulda been great on this course, I wasn't sure the Piranha2s have sharp enough shoulders. I had a GREAT experience on the Hutches though- I think the key is how supple the casing is and how sticky that rubber is, it is remarkable imo. I was far enough back that I saw several people slide out and dump on the off-camber, but I had no problems.


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

Alias530 said:


> I wish the bonty tires came in wider widths. Tread pattern looks great


I would have been happier with a wider tire too but they have just as good if not better grip than my 35 mm tubed Racing Ralphs.


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## warx (Oct 23, 2013)

I know some folks liking the Piranha on the dry pack. I actually switched from Raven to Tracer for the hard pack and liked it. Very soft rubber felt good on pavement. As it got wetter I moved to IRC Cerac CX. I had to use a compressor on the NoTubes Grail and even then it would keep popping back off the bead (I usually inflate without valve core and sealant first then add sealant and re-inflate). 

Mounted Vittoria Cross XL Pro on Iron Cross this weekend with a floor pump. Really tight getting the on the rims by hand first though. I have not ridden them yet and fear their sidewall is stiff but looks like they would work in sloppy mud.


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## Chasseur (Jan 28, 2007)

The xl pros are a weird tire. They feel slow on straight line dirt to me, but way up at like 40 psi, they are really fast and silent on Tarmac, all the side knobs are off the pavement and the rubber and casing have no squirm. Also, my 34 TNTs are 480g per not counting sealant. If it was 75g less I'd say it's a race tire, but that's pretty heavy to spin up. I like them for trail riding though. Tough and versatile.


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## mossy74 (Mar 8, 2014)

Got some kenda kommando x pro 33c SCT tires to try on my sram roam 30 wheels for my cross bike and could not get them anywhere near to seating the bead. They were really tight to put on but so were my Xg TNT's on my iron cross and they seated nicely. Then tried the kendas on the iron cross and they seated on those with a compressor.


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## Manning (Apr 11, 2007)

WTB Nano set up super easy with a Stan's CX rimstrip on my '14 Kona JTS. No issues after several rides.


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## thumperington (Mar 3, 2008)

Spec trigger 38 2BLISS went on Hope XC rims with a floor pump. Running 35/40 psi worked well with good volume. No pings on the rim and much better than the Schwalbe cx comp. tires did well in sand but a little loose in the turns.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Manning said:


> WTB Nano set up super easy with a Stan's CX rimstrip on my '14 Kona JTS. No issues after several rides.


I was running a Cross Boss front/rear for a while but wanted a little more volume so I went with a Nano 40c up front and love it for the extra volume but it won't hold air for more than a few days.


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## Manning (Apr 11, 2007)

Alias530 said:


> I was running a Cross Boss front/rear for a while but wanted a little more volume so I went with a Nano 40c up front and love it for the extra volume but it won't hold air for more than a few days.


That's a bummer, the Nano I have isn't even a "tubeless ready" version.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

And mine is! Ha!

I even put 2 scoops of Stans in, which is what I put in my massive 29x2.5 Minion DHF on my mtb


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## Tytteboevs (Mar 16, 2015)

Hi, hoping for help here, being a CX tubeless newbie. Been using the ghettostyle, with a cut up tube for bead on my Shimano R510s, with Stans in and using Ritchey Speedmax tires. I had succes first time, and even got to go for a nice ride, but next morning they where flat again. Happened twice. Is there a big difference in using tape as bead, or using the cut open tube? Any suggestions? Thanks


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

Tytteboevs said:


> Hi, hoping for help here, being a CX tubeless newbie. Been using the ghettostyle, with a cut up tube for bead on my Shimano R510s, with Stans in and using Ritchey Speedmax tires. I had succes first time, and even got to go for a nice ride, but next morning they where flat again. Happened twice. Is there a big difference in using tape as bead, or using the cut open tube? Any suggestions? Thanks


In my experience ritchey speedmax tires do NOT work well with sealant. I had them setup tubeless front/rear using stans sealant on a gravel bike. Both tires developed tread 'bubbles' that resulted in a flat after ~3 months of riding.

I doubt tires will fix the problem you're having, however I'd recommend using another pair if you have the option. If you keep riding your current tires after awhile they should hold air. The sealant is likely still working to seal all the small holes in your tire/rim interface. Give them a few more rides and see if they start holding air for longer. If so, you should be good. Just keep an eye on the tread for bubbles.


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## Tytteboevs (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks for the answer. Since I am looking for new tires anyway, maybe you could give your opinion on which to chose:

Hutchinson Bulldog
Vittoria XL Pro TNT 33
Kenda Kommanda X-Pro

In your opinion, is there any advantages in using tape instead of a cut open tube?

Thanks a lot.
T


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

Tytteboevs said:


> Thanks for the answer. Since I am looking for new tires anyway, maybe you could give your opinion on which to chose:
> 
> Hutchinson Bulldog
> Vittoria XL Pro TNT 33
> ...


I haven't personally ridden any of those tires. The hutchinson and vittorias seem to be lower volume. I'm unsure on the kenda, but would be more inclined to choose that over the other two options due to a perception of more volume.

If I were you I'd look for the highest volume lower tread tubeless tire you can find. Some people have good luck with specialized, others do fine with the options you mentioned. Personally I've had good luck running clement tires tubeless, however all my cx tubeless setups are on stans rims so I can't guarantee others will have the same experience.

I've always used tape, but generally only use rims designed for tubeless. I've moved to using 2 layers of stans yellow tape to build up the rim cavity a bit for CX tires/beads. This makes airing them up MUCH easier than one layer, which seems specific to CX tires.

Hope that helps.


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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

+1 on Clement and Mud 2's

-1 on Sammy Slicks. Worked fine on gravel roads. First CX race that I jumped on bike, tire blew off rim

I have heard good things about Specialized 2bliss CX tires

Stans Alpha 340 rims

maybe this will help you - there is also a part 1 & 2 
Going Tubeless for Cyclocross - Avoiding the Burp, Choosing the Best Tires, and a DIY System (Updated, Part III) - Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos


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## mnyquist (Sep 18, 2009)

My LBS just built me a set of Nextie carbon hooked 29er wheels and installed a pair of WTB Cross Boss with Stan's tape. They had a tough time with them...super tight. Haven't ridden them yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

tiflow_21 said:


> I haven't personally ridden any of those tires. The hutchinson and vittorias seem to be lower volume. I'm unsure on the kenda, but would be more inclined to choose that over the other two options due to a perception of more volume.
> 
> If I were you I'd look for the highest volume lower tread tubeless tire you can find. Some people have good luck with specialized, others do fine with the options you mentioned. Personally I've had good luck running clement tires tubeless, however all my cx tubeless setups are on stans rims so I can't guarantee others will have the same experience.
> 
> ...


 The Bulldogs on my bike are ancient (2007 or something), but they are pretty wide, almost measuring 36 by the casing. The new ones could be narrower, I guess.


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## Tytteboevs (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks again for all the good info and answers.

I found these, Mud 2`s at wiggle, but seems very narrow: Wiggle | Michelin Cyclocross Mud 2 Folding CX Tyre | Cyclocross Tyres

Any good places to shop CX tires (usually shops on chainreaction and wiggle).

Best
T


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## Tytteboevs (Mar 16, 2015)

scottz123 said:


> +1 on Clement and Mud 2's
> 
> -1 on Sammy Slicks. Worked fine on gravel roads. First CX race that I jumped on bike, tire blew off rim
> 
> ...


Thats just some awesome reading, read it all. I might go for the Mud 2`s, some valves and some tape (still dont know if the ghetto style has worked for anyone, with the cut open tube as the bead and up the sides?).

Also, as I understand it, its better with the wider rims, if possible?

Best regards
T


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

Removed my ancient bulldogs last night and put on a set of 32C Vittoria XN (file tread, non-TNT) with Stans on 6700 rims that I've only used tubed before for one race.

They are narrow. 29.5 from the same calipers that gave the bulldogs 35.5.

Set up of the rear tire was very easy with the first shot of air from my modest compressor. The front tire was an hour-long battle using every trick I could think of. I eventually had to set one bead with a tube and temporarily use a stans valve with the core removed before replacing the ultegra valve and getting it on the fifth try.

Overnight the easy-on rear tire lost about 15 PSI, the ugly-install front lost zero PSI.

So yeah... tubeless installs of non-tubeless tires remains a bit of a dark art.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

ghettocruiser said:


> Removed my ancient bulldogs last night and put on a set of 32C Vittoria XN (file tread, non-TNT) with Stans on 6700 rims that I've only used tubed before for one race.
> 
> They are narrow. 29.5 from the same calipers that gave the bulldogs 35.5.
> 
> ...


It seems that non-tubeless tires are only really usable on specific rims, and not always the rims you'd expect. For example, I had a bit of trouble with Stan's Arch EX rims and certain tires. Even with tubeless ready Hutchinsons they were a little finicky.

On the flip side, I've had great luck w/ Pacenti CL25s and HED C2+ rims. The HED rims would be my choice for using tubeless-specific tires as the Pacenti rims set up almost too snug. Sure, they won't burp, but they're also very hard to get the bead to break loose when you want them to (taking them off, that is). For example, I had a pair of Hutchinson Secteur road tires mounted on 'em for road use, that were almost impossible to break the bead loose.

For either of those rims, the trough is deep enough that once the bead is off all the way 'round, it's very easy to remove the tire from the rim.


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## 69erEverything (Mar 26, 2012)

Went my first full CX season with only tubular tires. No flats except that one drunken night at nationals. On the other hand my wife, who got my tubeless wheels and tires, had 4 flats each one costing her a podium spot. Tubeless cx is unreliable and inconsistent. Tried it for a half dozen years or so before committing to tubulars and never going back.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

69erEverything said:


> Went my first full CX season with only tubular tires. No flats except that one drunken night at nationals. On the other hand my wife, who got my tubeless wheels and tires, had 4 flats each one costing her a podium spot. Tubeless cx is unreliable and inconsistent. Tried it for a half dozen years or so before committing to tubulars and never going back.


If we're comparing studies of limited sample size (IOW, personal anecdotes) I've run tubeless exclusively for 2 full seasons with no flats and no burps, but have lots of friends who flat tubulars all the time.

For me, tubeless CX is very reliable, with the right tires/rims.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

69erEverything said:


> Went my first full CX season with only tubular tires. No flats except that one drunken night at nationals. On the other hand my wife, who got my tubeless wheels and tires, had 4 flats each one costing her a podium spot. Tubeless cx is unreliable and inconsistent. Tried it for a half dozen years or so before committing to tubulars and never going back.


What kind of flats? Slices, burping?

I thought taping it right was the hardest part with such narrow rims but beyond that it's been no different (i.e. 100% reliable) than my MTB setup.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Alias530 said:


> What kind of flats? Slices, burping?
> 
> I thought taping it right was the hardest part with such narrow rims but beyond that it's been no different (i.e. 100% reliable) than my MTB setup.


Great point... if the flats weren't due to burping, then there's nothing unique about tubeless that led to the flat, and nothing special about tubulars that would've prevented the flats.

A punctured tire is a punctured tire, no matter how it's attached to the rim.


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## 69erEverything (Mar 26, 2012)

All flats related to burping. Tubeless cx can't handle super aggressive cornering like tubular can.

New bike in our house has Stan's Grail wheels with clement PDX tires. Tire is flat already after just one trip on a Thule T2 rack. Here we go again...


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

69erEverything said:


> All flats related to burping. Tubeless cx can't handle super aggressive cornering like tubular can.
> 
> New bike in our house has Stan's Grail wheels with clement PDX tires. Tire is flat already after just one trip on a Thule T2 rack. Here we go again...


Stan's wheels don't use a true tubeless rim though. If I remember right it's designed to help convert non-tubeless tires to be run tubeless.

Beyond that, it could be a pressure issue. I can practically drag knee while cornering with my CX bike at 30psi in the front and 40psi in the rear (Nano 40c front, Cross Boss 35c rear), I've jumped it, and hit rocks and holes in the trail (like a big ass gopher hole) so hard that my hands and taint instantly went numb (didn't see it coming, hit it full force 20+mph with full weight on the saddle). Never a burp or a washout. Oh, and I'm 6'6" 240lbs


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Alias530 said:


> Stan's wheels don't use a true tubeless rim though. If I remember right it's designed to help convert non-tubeless tires to be run tubeless.
> 
> Beyond that, it could be a pressure issue. I can practically drag knee while cornering with my CX bike at 30psi in the front and 40psi in the rear (Nano 40c front, Cross Boss 35c rear), I've jumped it, and hit rocks and holes in the trail (like a big ass gopher hole) so hard that my hands and taint instantly went numb (didn't see it coming, hit it full force 20+mph with full weight on the saddle). Never a burp or a washout. Oh, and I'm 6'6" 240lbs


My experiences dovetail with yours pretty closely. The first thing folks should do is not go by the gauge and shoot for an arbitrary low psi. With the right tire/rim combo, it's not hard to find the sweetspot where traction is maximized and burping is minimized/negated, and if that's 28psi or 35psi, so be it. FWIW, I did a thumb test comparing my tubeless tire to a friend's tubular and found that my tubeless was noticeably softer at 4 psi higher inflation. If I'd been bound by a dogmatic desire for absolute lowest psi, I might have had problems. I wasn't, so I didn't.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

mudge said:


> My experiences dovetail with yours pretty closely. The first thing folks should do is not go by the gauge and shoot for an arbitrary low psi. With the right tire/rim combo, it's not hard to find the sweetspot where traction is maximized and burping is minimized/negated, and if that's 28psi or 35psi, so be it. FWIW, I did a thumb test comparing my tubeless tire to a friend's tubular and found that my tubeless was noticeably softer at 4 psi higher inflation. If I'd been bound by a dogmatic desire for absolute lowest psi, I might have had problems. I wasn't, so I didn't.


Yep. I had a pretty knowledgeable friend over the other day and asked him to thumb test my MTB's front tire. He said 30psi. I hooked up my digital gauge and it came back 15psi. I usually ride at 18psi but I hadn't ridden that bike in almost 2 weeks so it dropped a bit. Different gauges read differently.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

The races that actually use my cross bike for (2 year tops) tend to favour higher pressure, 40PSI or more, so burping has not been a factor, I'm after puncture-resistance from the sealant.

And my reference point is tubes, which IMO will pinch-flat well before a tubeless tire will burp.

My grievance with tubulars is mostly financial.


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## mellowdave (Feb 3, 2010)

Stans Iron Cross with Clement PDX, 25-40 psi depending on the ride, no burping, no BS. Just phenomenal feel, and traction. Certainly you need to use the right stuff, but if you do, you can't go wrong. Switching to an LAS on the rear soon for fast hardback through summer, I will update if this changes anything. 


Just a fat guy on a little bike


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## mnyquist (Sep 18, 2009)

WTB Nano TCS on Enve XC 29 rims. Haven't ridden them yet, but they have nice volume and set up tubeless pretty easily.
















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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

mnyquist said:


> WTB Nano TCS on Enve XC 29 rims. Haven't ridden them yet, but they have nice volume and set up tubeless pretty easily.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am 99% sure those will be my next tires for my RLT.


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## FuelForThought (Jan 12, 2004)

WTB nano 40c TCS mounted on WTB i19 ChrisCross rims measure at exactly 40mm with 40 psi.

Easiest tire to mount so far. No need to soap the bead or use CO2. Floor pump, inflate to 60 psi, pop pop pop, done.

Heavy tire (524g) but super excited about it as a do-it-all training tire. Smooth rolling on the road and no abrupt transition when cornering.


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

Still in testing phase but so far better than expected

Racing ralph, stans splumph, about 5 wraps of 19mm yellow tesa stansalike tape, and on-one reet'ard ("Right hard" said in a north eastern English accent....not what it may sound like....unfortunate name, but they came on the bike)

Pumped up on track pump without too much drama.

Rear only at the moment

Couple of rides. today I started at 32 psi on my shwalbe digital guage. was dead comfy, slightly quirmy....but off road ever so comfy. a rim hits on roots and stones, I think I had a slight burp on one of these. had 27 psi in there after 15 miles when I got home.

Will try a bit more pressure to see if the burps go, but hopefully not much more. I love the way they feel off road at the lower pressures compared to what I ran in tubes. a few more rides and iff its good I'll do the front.

at the same pressure in the front the front (with tube) feels less supple, harder to squeeze.


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

Just picked up some cheap Surly Knards on friday. Mounted on Stans Alpha 400's using a tube to seat the bead first. Broke the bead on one side & pulled the tube out, stuck the valve & some Stans in & they went up with a track pump. 
Went for a blast on single track today & they work a whole lot better than skinny cx tyres.


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## Couloirman (Sep 17, 2010)

Challenge Gravel Grinder 38mm, 120tpi. Anyone had luck with these tubeless? I'm using light-bicycle China carbon rims with Stan's tape and this setup worked for me for a bit but now they burp fluid all the time at pressures that used to be fine for me. I know challenge doesn't condone these tires tubeless, but anyone else had luck with them?


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## Couloirman (Sep 17, 2010)

Just picked up a set of WTB Nano 40c TCS tires to set up tubeless on the new cross bike with Light-bicycle china carbon bead hookless rims. Why does WTB say no compressor and no levers?


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## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Levers can damage the bead such that it won't seal properly. I can only guess that compressor pressure might blow the bead off.


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

I have some WTB Cross Boss TCS tires on the way. These will be going on Alpha 400 rims. I will report back and post some photos once they mounted. Really looking forward to these tires.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I have DT Swiss X430 rims (originally came on a 2012 Salsa Vaya 2) that I would like to set up with some tubeless 35mm+ tires for gravel and light singletrack. from what I have read, I will need some sort of rubber rim strip on them. anyone try this yet? Stan's or Ghetto might work. I am thinking TCS Nanos or Cross Boss tires.


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

Put the WTB Cross Boss tires on this weekend. Installed tubeless on Alpha 400 rims. It took a little effort to get the tires to fully mount with the telltale pop. I had to go up to 65psi before they made the sound. It may be that I have two layers of yellow tape on the wheels for road tire use and one may have been enough, and made it easier, for the cross tires to mount. Tires went on with just my hands, but where nice and tight, and inflated with a floor pump. Added 2oz of sealant to both tires and did a lap around the backyard loop. Need to get them out on a real ride before my first race on Saturday. Nice and plumb and loads of traction from the quick test spin. Have them about 25psi right now, but will probably go a little lower (I weigh 145) for race day depending on course conditions.


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## TJay74 (Sep 26, 2012)

I am still playing with the tubeless setup on my 2015 Giant TCX SLR1. I am using the cross wheels Giant sends with the bike P-CX1 as of now. Wrapped them with 2 layers of tape and the used the DT Swiss rim strip that Giant included with their kit and the Schwalbe Super Swan tires.

Had nothing but issues with the tires, harder the heck to get onto the beads. Had to take the valve core out so the compressor could push enough air to seat them. Then at times the DT Swiss rim strip would poke out under the bead, more prone if you didn't get the tire seated on the first try.

Had them all setup and went to my first race last week, with the tires ate 35psi front/rear they did ok, until the last lap as I was trying to gain a place and keep another rider from taking the corner from me, burped the front but didn't lose it. Got back to the pit after the race and the rim strip was out under the front bead again.

Reaplced the Schwalbe tires with Vittoria Cross XM Pro tires, lost a little bit of size (700cx35 to 700cx33) but the tires mounted right up tubeless without the rim strips. They have held air since that day with no issues. Going to try them out tonight at the race to dial in the pressure and see how they do.

I really want to build a set of 24f/28r wheels with DT Swiss hubs in either the 350 or 240 series. Just need to find (open to suggestions) a decent but light carbon rim. Current wheels are 1755g so I would really like to get down in the 1450g range if possible.

I called Stans about the Iron Cross wheels, with me being 185lbs dressed they said the top end one should be fine, just not sure about reliability with Stan's wheels since some people on other forums have been having issues with the hubs.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Anyone setup the Axis 2.0s that come on Specys tubeless? Figure tape or Stan's strips. My Crux came with the wire bead Triggers..probably should get the 2bliss ready versions....

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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

TJay74 said:


> I am still playing with the tubeless setup on my 2015 Giant TCX SLR1. I am using the cross wheels Giant sends with the bike P-CX1 as of now. Wrapped them with 2 layers of tape and the used the DT Swiss rim strip that Giant included with their kit and the Schwalbe Super Swan tires.
> 
> Had nothing but issues with the tires, harder the heck to get onto the beads. Had to take the valve core out so the compressor could push enough air to seat them. Then at times the DT Swiss rim strip would poke out under the bead, more prone if you didn't get the tire seated on the first try.
> 
> ...


Not sure if you found anything yet.
This builder is popular in Chicago Cross Cup series - you could pick his brain...but i think i know what he will say about tubeless and CX...

PSIMET Custom Wheels


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## homebrewtim (Sep 26, 2014)

I have 2014 Axis 2.0 on my Crux and they were not advetised at tubeless ready...so same question here from previous model. I assume Stans would do the job.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I actually found 2 sources online saying it will work just using a few layers of Stan's yellow tape and valve stems. One was in the Specy help site and this from someone at Specy and two was a cyclocross site with someone with a 2014. I'm trying it this weekend.

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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> I actually found 2 sources online saying it will work just using a few layers of Stan's yellow tape and valve stems. One was in the Specy help site and this from someone at Specy and two was a cyclocross site with someone with a 2014. I'm trying it this weekend.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I have mine set up with Gorilla Tape, 2bliss Terra/Trigger.
They took a bit of work to seat, but have held up pretty well in training and trail rides. Because of the issues, and since I have to run pressures in the mid 30s, they're my pit/training wheels.
Racing on WTB i19s, though. While I had a burp from an unfortunate bad remount combined with trying too low pressure (24 front, 25.5 rear!) the WTBs have been great. Even after burping, I was able to finish the race with 12 psi in the rear without losing any more pressure! Next race I ran appropriate pressure (28f, 30r) and had a solid race.

Los


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## homebrewtim (Sep 26, 2014)

sslos said:


> I have mine set up with Gorilla Tape, 2bliss Terra/Trigger.
> They took a bit of work to seat, but have held up pretty well in training and trail rides. Because of the issues, and since I have to run pressures in the mid 30s, they're my pit/training wheels.
> Racing on WTB i19s, though. While I had a burp from an unfortunate bad remount combined with trying too low pressure (24 front, 25.5 rear!) the WTBs have been great. Even after burping, I was able to finish the race with 12 psi in the rear without losing any more pressure! Next race I ran appropriate pressure (28f, 30r) and had a solid race.
> 
> Los


Good to know. I have Spec Tracer Pros, a couple sets of Clements and a set of WTB Cross Boss' on order. I race for the first time in 2-weeks. I'll run tubes for that. My Tracer's roll well for me at 40-45 psi (I weight 210#)...I think they'll run OK at 35'ish with tubes as well.

Is it a pain to swap tires once set up tubeless?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Switching tires with tubes is certainly easier and less messy but once you get used to it it's not a big deal. I am still on the fence after hearing SO many issues on the CX bikes with tubeless...seems like folks are pushing the limits of low psi and that is the likely result. I rode some gnarly singletrack this past weekend with tubes and no flats...may just stick with what works..

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## scottz123 (Jun 16, 2012)

TiGeo said:


> Switching tires with tubes is certainly easier and less messy but once you get used to it it's not a big deal. I am still on ghe fence after hearing SO many issues on the CX bikes with tubeless...seems like folks are pushing the limits of low psi and that is the likely result. I rode some gnarly singletrack this past weekend with tubes and no flats...may just stick with what works..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Are you using latex tubes?

I am amazed in the difference in ride quality on my road bike, once I switched to Vittoria Latex Road Inner Tubes. It rides like i am running 10psi less with same pressure as rubber tubes. Thinner too, so less prone to pinch flats


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## kmancrx (Nov 15, 2009)

I have some maxxis mud wrester TR set up on Stans. I followed the instructions by mounting the tires up with no levers and then using a floor pump. They set up nicely and I rode 20 miles of gravel with about 1 mile of tame single track with about 27f/31r. they were very nice and no squirm (likely due to the firmer sidewalls).

Question. If you aren't supposed to use levers on these tires how are you supposed to remove them from the rim? If you use a lever are you going to destroy the carbon bead?


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Do you always use a lever to take off tires? I "almost" never do.


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## Wines of WA (Mar 9, 2010)

I've seen conflicting accounts of whether WTB Nano 40c TCS tires and Stans Valor rims are compatible with each other, having something to do with the WTB bead and Stans hookless inner rim not getting along. Anyone have direct experience? Thanks!


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

2015 Crux. Axis 2.0 wheels. Specy Trigger Sport 33c (wire bead). Set up tubeless with 2 passes of Stan's yellow tape, 44mm valve stems, and a scoop of sealant. Dropped 0.4 pounds. Holding air fine. Will ride this weekend, don't anticpate any issues. The tires weren't as tight as I would have liked- could have used more tape or used weather stripping in the center channel to build it up a bit more but I think it will work. I am not going be running pressures lower than 30 I reckon.


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## TXPhisher (Oct 30, 2006)

I've got Axis 2.0s set up with two layers of tape and Clement PDX. Burped in a race at 34-psi on the rear, but have been running 36-psi in several others successfully. Really hard combination to setup and leaks quite a bit overnight - added 2oz additional to each after a month or so. Honestly wouldn't recommend this combo based on difficulty to setup, amount of initial leakage, and psi required to not burp.


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## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

kmancrx said:


> I have some maxxis mud wrester TR set up on Stans. I followed the instructions by mounting the tires up with no levers and then using a floor pump. They set up nicely and I rode 20 miles of gravel with about 1 mile of tame single track with about 27f/31r. they were very nice and no squirm (likely due to the firmer sidewalls).
> 
> Question. If you aren't supposed to use levers on these tires how are you supposed to remove them from the rim? If you use a lever are you going to destroy the carbon bead?





kmancrx said:


> I have some maxxis mud wrester TR set up on Stans. I followed the instructions by mounting the tires up with no levers and then using a floor pump. They set up nicely and I rode 20 miles of gravel with about 1 mile of tame single track with about 27f/31r. they were very nice and no squirm (likely due to the firmer sidewalls).
> 
> I don't think they have a carbon bead. That's just road tires at high psi isn't it? With all the air out, you push one bead entirely into the rim well. You should then be able to get one bead off then the second is even easier.
> 
> ...





kmancrx said:


> I have some maxxis mud wrester TR set up on Stans. I followed the instructions by mounting the tires up with no levers and then using a floor pump. They set up nicely and I rode 20 miles of gravel with about 1 mile of tame single track with about 27f/31r. they were very nice and no squirm (likely due to the firmer sidewalls).
> 
> I don't think they have a carbon bead. That's just road tires at high psi isn't it? With all the air out, you push one bead entirely into the rim well. You should then be able to get one bead off then the second is even easier.
> 
> ...


I think only road tubeless has a carbon bead. For the high pressures. With all the air out you pop one bead off the bead seat into the rim well all the way around. Should be easy to pull one tire bead up and over the rim edge.

I just bought a Norco Threashold, 2015, on clearance. $1600 off. It came with Stan's Iron Cross wheels and Clement PDX 33 tires. Dead easy to set up tubeless with my fancy Bontrager pump. But they measure 39 on those rims which is great for me but what if you wanted to race in a sanctioned event? 33 is the limit. Could one get disqualified?


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

Wines of WA said:


> I've seen conflicting accounts of whether WTB Nano 40c TCS tires and Stans Valor rims are compatible with each other, having something to do with the WTB bead and Stans hookless inner rim not getting along. Anyone have direct experience? Thanks!


TCS beads and Stan's 29er rims do not work well together. Way to tight. They do work on Alpah rims though. You can run the non-TCS Nano's on the Valors though. My brother has some Nano Race on Grails for gravel riding.


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## Face Visor (May 2, 2009)

offrhodes42 said:


> TCS beads and Stan's 29er rims do not work well together. Way to tight. They do work on Alpah rims though. You can run the non-TCS Nano's on the Valors though. My brother has some Nano Race on Grails for gravel riding.


I set up Nano Race (non-TCS) on Grails yesterday. Setup was easy. Took the tires for a spin and they seemed fine. Checked them this morning and they're holding air fine.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Do you think the burping more related to the sidewall strength of the tires vs. the rim itself?


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

I've been running a tubeless setup on my ZTR Crest 29er wheelset for the past 2 seasons with great success.

Last year I ran some Michelin Mud2 Cross tires setup tubeless on my old Felt CX bike. I did 18 races and they never burped once. I did get a flat during one of the races when I missed my attempt to jump a cement curb during the race and I hit my rear wheel quite hard. It broke the bead and the tire immediately went flat.

This year for the early part of the CX race season while things were quite a bit dryer, I ran some Vittoria XG Pro TNT around 27-28psi in 8 races without any issues but I didn't find that the XG worked really well once things got wetter/muddier. So for the past 7 races, I've been running some Maxxis Mud Wrestlers TR EXO tires on my Crest wheels. I set them up and brought the air pressure down to 25psi and they haven't lost air and they have performed incredibly in all sorts of conditions. I think the Mud Wrestler is going to be my go to tire for the foreseeable future. When I ordered the Mud Wrestlers, I was thinking that they would hold me over until the Clement PDX tubeless was released next year, but I've been so impressed with the Mud Wrestler that I think I'm going to stick with them.

We had our provincial championship this past weekend in some extremely muddy conditions and the Mud Wrestlers propelled me to a third place finish. So a big thumbs up to the Mud Wrestlers.

My old Felt setup Tubeless with Crest 29 wheels and Michelin Mud2








Vittoria XG setup tubeless on Crest 29 wheels








Maxxis Mud Wrestlers TR EXO setup tubeless on Crest 29 wheels








Running 25psi front and back with the Mud Wrestlers








First place finisher's muddy bike after this past weekends Provincial Championships.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

So far so good on my tubeless conversion. Crux w/DT Axis 2.0s that I taped with Stan's yellow tape (2 passes) - probably could use 3 passes to get the tires on there tighter. Specy Trigger Sports (wire beads!). Have ridden ~50 miles now on road, gravel, and single track. ~30psi off-road, and mid-30s on-road...I bet I can get a little lower for gravel cruising. I was VERY cautious at first...kept thinking my tire would just fly off in a corner! No such thing has happened. I can see however that during a race with off-camber or hard turns under power that you could peel one off. On a DH portion of our local single-track flow trail, I hit a corner hard pumping and folded the rear a bit which I have also done on my mtb with TLR rims/tires due to too little pressure. On gravel it is great and more comfy at slight lower pressures than I was running with tubes. I had a handful of flats on the tubes in the ~500 miles I was on them. Honestly, its probably not necessary on the cross bike to have tubeless for me, but I figured why not. I think I will pick up some wider Triggers (the 38s) soon and they are TLR. I think the issue with CX bikes and tubeless is that there is simply not enough meat on the sidewall and physically a smaller sidewall to start with so its a more effective lever to prying itself off the rim in turns etc. vs. a mtb.


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## homebrewtim (Sep 26, 2014)

Great info TiGeo...I have a pre-2Bliss ready Crux with Axis 2.0s and wondered how'd they set up if I ever decide to make the jump. I like them as clinchers for now and run them around 35-40 psi (I weigh 215#) with CrossBoss 35c tires. I get away with lower pressure on my 38c Triggers and 40c MSOs.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^at 215.....be carefull. I weigh 160.

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## homebrewtim (Sep 26, 2014)

Yup...that's why I am still rolling on clinchers. Due to weight I tend to run higher pressure as well since the tires spread out more at higher pressure for me.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Wouldn't go back now. Gotten my pressure down a little more for my gravel route and slamming into some hidden roots etc. due to leaves...no pinches has been nice.

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## c_t_smith (Oct 23, 2007)

I built up a set of wheels this year around American Classic RD2218 rims and they've made a great tubeless CX setup w/ just a single layer of Stan's tape. I've only used tubless-ready tires, but I've been able to run as low as 30psi front and 32psi rear on Cross Boss and Mud Wrestler tires w/o any issues (I weigh 175lbs.)


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## kyttyra (Mar 8, 2012)

Hi! 

This question may been asked already, but I did not find a quick answer:

What rim tape would be recommended for Hope Tech XC rims (inner width 19,5 mm)? 

(Yesterday I tried with Stan's 21 mm tape and Panaracer Cinder X: initially the tire sealed well, but next morning it was empty, and I could not make it hold air anymore (although there was enough sealant). Of course the reason for leaking is probably other than tape such as non-tubeless tyre or user error but annyway....)


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Cinder X works tubeless just fine, Kyttyra, I used it before (on Ailerons)

Likely reasons are microscopic holes in the tire and the tape peeling off
If the tire can hold air for 15 minutes, take it to the bathtub, submerge a small section of the wheel at a time for a couple seconds and watch for bubbles
Once a hole is found, help the sealant plug it by holding the wheel so that the sealant is covering that part of the tire completely. I had those pesky holes in a Kenda SCT tire - pain in the ass, but they got sealed in the end 

If it's not the tire, then it's the tape and that might be solved by merely replacing the tape (doesn't hurt to clean/dry the rim before taping and leaving it inflated with a tube for a day to help the tape stick)

Wider tape might help by virtue of covering the bead seat completely and theoretically improving the seal


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## Wines of WA (Mar 9, 2010)

Successfully set up WTB Cross Boss TCS tires on Pacenti SL25 rims and they seem to work great so far. Used Stans valves, tape and sealant. The Bontrager Flash Charger pump is awesome for setting up tubeless. By the way, this was my first attempt at setting up tubeless on any bike in my life, and it came together smoothly first try.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

You're prolly right, your problem prolly isn't your tape. But, since you asked-it's simple: Gorilla tape.


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## yboc (Nov 4, 2012)

Building my first CX bike, and I've got some wheels that are set up for tubeless. They are HiFi Mixtapes and I'm throwing Gravel Grinders on there. 

I've installed tires tubeless before. Is it pretty easy? I don't have a air compressor, is that going to be beneficial?

Thanks


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Thinking of a tubeless setup with Axis 2.0 wheels but with Fatty Stripper strips...the rubbery ones. It may provide a tighter bead interface over Stan's tape, though I am not sure. I'm using this method on the Fatbike and think it should work well on the Axis wheels as well...maybe even the road wheels.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^yep...the Stan's strips etc. should allow a tighter fitting tire and subsequently an easier time airing them up. Mine work fine with two rounds of yellow tape and an air compressor.

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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

i've used an old oem wtb sx17 29er rim, 1 layer of gorilla tape, stand valve and sealant with kenda tcs happy medium pro 32c and it held up well. of course, a real tubeless rim will be better.


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## jrabenaldt (Feb 24, 2005)

Last week mounted WTB Nano Race 40's on a set of C29ssmax's that I had been saving. 

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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Posted here before but figured I'd get an update going. Been running 700x40 and 700x35 non tubeless ready Kendas on my Bontrager Rhythm Comp wheels for about 2200 miles with zero issues aside from my SB8 bubbling due to the sealant (my fault). Rims were a bit wide which squared off the profile on the 35 quite a bit. 

Unfortunately rider error killed off my rear wheel so I purchased a wheelset with the WTB Stryker i19 rims (from what I can tell they are the same as the newer Frequency i19 but with eyelets instead of the 4d spoke holes). As expected my Kenda mounted easily and it has more of a round profile now with a skinnier rim. No rides on it yet but I'm not expecting any issues.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Axis 4.0s (2016 model) w/Specy Trigger Pro 38s. Added one layer of Stan's yellow tape over top the OE rim strip and added valve stems. Set up tubeless with zero drama. Edit. Drama. The tape didn't work out as well as I had hoped and I scraped the OEM strip + Stan's tape and just went with a single layer of Gorilla...MUCH better seal. Can inflate with a floor pump.


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## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Mounted a pair of 40 c nanos on Stan's iron cross with a single layer of Stan's tape. Had to fight the tire to get it on. No tools used though other than a rag for grip to get the last bit of bead on. Aired up like a champ of course. Not as grippy as the Clement PDX nor as light. But the Clement tires continually weaved sealant out the sidewalls and Clement do not recommend their tires for tubeless. They say sealant can eat away the casing. I figured a more reliable tire was in order. Those WTB tires though sure we're tight. As tight as road tubeless. I think that's good though.


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

someoldfart said:


> Mounted a pair of 40 c nanos on Stan's iron cross with a single layer of Stan's tape. Had to fight the tire to get it on. No tools used though other than a rag for grip to get the last bit of bead on. Aired up like a champ of course. Not as grippy as the Clement PDX nor as light. But the Clement tires continually weaved sealant out the sidewalls and Clement do not recommend their tires for tubeless. They say sealant can eat away the casing. I figured a more reliable tire was in order. Those WTB tires though sure we're tight. As tight as road tubeless. I think that's good though.


Did you use the TCS version or the Race version?


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## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

TCS version. I should have mentioned that.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Running into a bit of an issue with my rear tubeless setup. It is a regular non SCT 700x35 Kenda Happy Medium mounted on an i19 rim. Bead popped in place with authority when I was mounting the tire. Last night I nailed an obstacle with the rear and it started leaking at the bead. Stopped a few times to inflate but it eventually sealed. This morning I inspect the tire and rim for damage at which point I notice I can press on the sidewall with my thumb and cause air to leak at the bead at any given point around the wheel. Trying the lay on a bucket method to allow sealant to pool at the sidewall/bead in hopes of getting a better seal. Anyone else had this issue with a Kenda or i19? Finding it odd I didn't have this issue with the same tire on a Bontrager TLR rim. I've used an i23 in the past on my mountain bike and I also had no problems there.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

never had this issue (used SCT HMs, though), but it looks like another layer of rim tape would likely solve the problem


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

bruto said:


> never had this issue (used SCT HMs, though), but it looks like another layer of rim tape would likely solve the problem


I agree. If the tire is inflated to your riding pressure and you can press on it and make it leak, then the tire is simply too loose. Try more layers of tape until its tight enough.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Most tubeless issues I have encountered/dealt-with are related to the tire not being tight enough or the tape job. More tape. You can also build up a deep center channel using weather stripping - the Stan's site should have info on how to do this and what weather stripping to use (at they did ~5 years ago when I set up a bike that way).


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Hmmm...guess I'll try another layer. These came pretaped and, surprisingly enough, they did a good job with it.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^The tape may be fine, but your tire is still too loose. The thing about tubeless is that its not an exact science and not every tire/rim combo work v. well. Why not get TLR tires? - they almost always fit more snug than non-TLR tires. The Specialized tires are 2Bliss ready.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

I really like the Kenda Happy Medium and, from what I understand, the regular and SCT versions have the exact same bead. Would be in the same both either way it seems.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Not sure, looks like it just a difference in the rubber that allows them to be used with sealant. No idea. Make the rim fatter by adding tape.


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## Joe_Re (Jan 10, 2011)

Finally went tubeless on the cross bike. Got two races and a singletrack ride on em this season.

Built a wheelset using Bontrager RL 29er rims and the Bontrager rim strip. Got Specialized Terras for tires. Used Orange Seals Sub-Zero.

They work Awesome and look Boss!


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