# Light Bicycle Carbon Rims



## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hello MTBR,

Sorry for being late to the party and not participating in the forums in the past. We felt that we needed more experience before talking to customers here. We will try to answer your questions as openly as possible.

If you need warranty support, please fill out the form here. If you have an OEM inquiry or other important private message, then we invite you to contact us directly.

We have learned so much from our customers and it's been very exciting to be a part of the cycling industry. Your trust has allowed us to continually develop our product line and technology. Thank you to those who have given us a chance over the years!


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## Myers005 (Jan 31, 2011)

Your company has clearly derived SUBSTANTIAL benefits from the mtbr community as witnessed by multiple threads focused on your products and hundreds, if not thousands, of posts discussing your rims. I suppose it's nice of you to begin participating, but I wonder what you intend to contribute in return? To date I have not seen your company provide any support to this site, such as paid advertising or sponsorship. This particular thread is no more than a free advertisement that you have initiated. What's in it for us and for mtbr?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Myers005 said:


> Your company has clearly derived SUBSTANTIAL benefits from the mtbr community as witnessed by multiple threads focused on your products and hundreds, if not thousands, of posts discussing your rims. I suppose it's nice of you to begin participating, but I wonder what you intend to contribute in return? To date I have not seen your company provide any support to this site, such as paid advertising or sponsorship. This particular thread is no more than a free advertisement that you have initiated. What's in it for us and for mtbr?


Hi Myers005,

We hope to share some of our knowledge of what we've learned over the years and answer customers questions in a format they are comfortable in. We have noticed the interest on MTBR for our products and would like to provide up to date information to avoid confusion and mis-information. It is harder for a Chinese company to understand the cycling culture and terminology but we feel that we are in a position to participate in a meaningful way now.

We have not done major advertisements, sponsorship and initiated product reviews in the past. This is high on our priority list and we will certainly be contacting MTBR to investigate the possibilities! If you have any suggestions for us on what you would like to see, we'd be happy to hear from you.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

If they actually paid for advertising, then they'd have to charge more, you know, kind of like the legit companies who advertise with sites like MTBR and in magazines, who provide sponsorship to local cycling programs, who invest $$$$ in R&D and testing, you know, stuff that ads up and makes honest retail products cost more than the ones sold directly from china using technology/designs stolen from these legit manufacturers.



Myers005 said:


> Your company has clearly derived SUBSTANTIAL benefits from the mtbr community as witnessed by multiple threads focused on your products and hundreds, if not thousands, of posts discussing your rims. I suppose it's nice of you to begin participating, but I wonder what you intend to contribute in return? To date I have not seen your company provide any support to this site, such as paid advertising or sponsorship. This particular thread is no more than a free advertisement that you have initiated. What's in it for us and for mtbr?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

My guess is the person posting as light bicycle is an american distributer who has agreed to be the North American face/voice for Light Bicycle. This person saw an void in the Customer Service department for Light Bicycle, and is now chosing to capatalize on this. 

This is my best guess only, but I would think mtbr has helped to generate the majority of the business for light bicycle branded products.


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Myers005,
> 
> We hope to share some of our knowledge of what we've learned over the years and answer customers questions in a format they are comfortable in. We have noticed the interest on MTBR for our products and would like to provide up to date information to avoid confusion and mis-information. It is harder for a Chinese company to understand the cycling culture and terminology but we feel that we are in a position to participate in a meaningful way now.
> 
> We have not done major advertisements, sponsorship and initiated product reviews in the past. This is high on our priority list and we will certainly be contacting MTBR to investigate the possibilities! If you have any suggestions for us on what you would like to see, we'd be happy to hear from you.


lol........ Instead of "if you have any suggestions for us on what you would like to see" It should read......."what you would like us to steal"


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Holy **** guys! Give him/her a break. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they actually care about us and providing the best possible customer service. If they bite the hand that feeds them, then go for it. Otherwise, cut the crap!!!


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## ckspeed (May 25, 2012)

Exactly, give him a break. I don't see anyone talking about nox, derby and atomik about advertise.


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

ckspeed said:


> Exactly, give him a break. I don't see anyone talking about nox, derby and atomik about advertise.


Seriously...


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

LyNx said:


> If they actually paid for advertising, then they'd have to charge more, you know, kind of like the legit companies who advertise with sites like MTBR and in magazines, who provide sponsorship to local cycling programs, who invest $$$$ in R&D and testing, you know, stuff that ads up and makes honest retail products cost more than the ones sold directly from china using technology/designs stolen from these legit manufacturers.


We employ a team of full time engineers and invest a large amount of money in testing equipment and machinery to produce our rims. Each company must choose its own path to sell its products. We are not here to argue about who made what product first, who is copying who etc. There are two sides to every story.



jonshonda said:


> My guess is the person posting as light bicycle is an american distributer who has agreed to be the North American face/voice for Light Bicycle. This person saw an void in the Customer Service department for Light Bicycle, and is now chosing to capatalize on this.
> 
> This is my best guess only, but I would think mtbr has helped to generate the majority of the business for light bicycle branded products.


There are a few team members discussing and posting on MTBR and all of them work for Light Bicycle, not a distributor. We are here to try and answer questions as openly as possible and try to contribute to the MTBR forum.



BlownCivic said:


> Holy **** guys! Give him/her a break. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they actually care about us and providing the best possible customer service. If they bite the hand that feeds them, then go for it. Otherwise, cut the crap!!!


We thought the forum was a good place to address questions and concerns and to avoid misinformation. It is hard to interpret some of the comments, so we have several people involved to help. We genuinely want to increase our customer service level.


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## OLx6 (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks for posting. Personally I like to see vendors provide intelligent advice and information about equipment on this site.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

I think it happens like this. A factory does say "hey, lets copy some product out there and make piles of money" they are obviously a carbon factory and were probably making somthing oe in the bike world. They sell direct under a different brand. Maybe the OE only ordered a run of a thousand rims. Tooling for molds is big dollars, why toss them? After what seems like alot of sales on mtbr, the thought has to enter their minds to the fact they now have a retail bussines and should concentrate on customer support. 

Yes they should help out mtbr as it possibly has been the majority of their orders.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

light bicycle said:


> We employ a team of full time engineers and invest a large amount of money in testing equipment and machinery to produce our rims. Each company must choose its own path to sell its products. We are not here to argue about who made what product first, who is copying who etc. There are two sides to every story.


I am 100% for a company supplying quality products to consumers at a lower cost than its competitors. Don't get me wrong.

I do have to ask a few questions though.

1) Does light bicycle own the factory the rims are being produced in?

2) Does this same factory produce carbon rims for other companies?

3) Do the same engineers that work for light bicycle also work on the projects for other companies?

4) Was light bicycle producing carbon rims for bicycles prior to being contracted by outside sources?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Waiting for LB to respond to this, although do you really think they will respond honestly? ut:



jonshonda said:


> I am 100% for a company supplying quality products to consumers at a lower cost than its competitors. Don't get me wrong.
> 
> I do have to ask a few questions though.
> 
> ...


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## wheatgerm (Jan 30, 2006)

I hope they respond "none of your effin' business".


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Haha. Kinda true!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

jonshonda said:


> I am 100% for a company supplying quality products to consumers at a lower cost than its competitors. Don't get me wrong.
> 
> I do have to ask a few questions though.
> 
> ...


Hi Jonshonda, Thank you for your questions.

1) It is the same owners. There is no "middle man" if that is what you are wondering, and we do not sell our rims (intentionally) to any Trading Companies.

2) Yes

3) Yes. Our engineers may help with OEM projects if they do not have their own engineer(s) on the project.

4) Yes. Selling products direct to consumers was the best way for us to understand what people wanted, and also attract OEM partnerships. Otherwise it is much harder for a younger company to get the opportunity to work with OEM's.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

*Any fix for delaminating carbon rim?*

My LB wheels are only 1 month old, but the rear one has a delamination spot, about 5 mm long and 3 mm wide.
The rims are matte UD finish. There are some scratches for normal use, I don't mind that.

So any fix or tips to reduce this delamination process?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

inter said:


> My LB wheels are only 1 month old, but the rear one has a delamination spot, about 5 mm long and 3 mm wide.
> The rims are matte UD finish. There are some scratches for normal use, I don't mind that.
> 
> So any fix or tips to reduce this delamination process?


Hi Inter, Can you send a few pictures to [email protected] ?

If so, please clean up the area before taking photos so we can have a look at what is going on. Once we have a look, we can provide further comments.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Well, I feel better now about Light Bicycle and their products from the standpoint of them creating products through their own RnD. Not simply taking (stealing) technology others developed/paid for and selling it as their own for a discounted price.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

jonshonda said:


> I am 100% for a company supplying quality products to consumers at a lower cost than its competitors. Don't get me wrong.
> 
> I do have to ask a few questions though.
> 
> ...


It seems like you are trying to "catch" them for something but I think what your getting at is the basic principals of manufacturing these days.

I bet you could buy the hot item that any company is selling us Americans, for premium prices, direct from China for next to nothing if you had the channels. LB just seems smart enough to make it easy to do, and will benefit from this decision (until one of their customers learns to write up a strong contract).


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Thank you for posting on the forum and answering questions.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

It's simple.... If you don't like their practices or product, don't read this forum.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Who did they steal their designs and technology from? My ENVEs seem to have a different layup process. On the cycling rim manufacturing front it seems that China is the innovator. Other than suspension design, I wonder how much input western engineers have regarding manufacturing cycling products. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Happy customer here. Three years on your rims so far. They've taken a bunch of rocks strikes that I thought broke the rim, but they are fine.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

DrDon said:


> Who did they steal their designs and technology from? My ENVEs seem to have a different layup process. On the cycling rim manufacturing front it seems that China is the innovator. Other than suspension design, I wonder how much input western engineers have regarding manufacturing cycling products.


Well, I just don't think China does much without being asked to. 99.9 times out of 100 someone comes to China to manufacture a new item, but a Chinese company introducing something new an innovative to the market doesn't happen. They typically tend to capitalize on knock-offs or very "similar" technology to existing products.


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

jonshonda said:


> Well, I just don't think China does much without being asked to. 99.9 times out of 100 someone comes to China to manufacture a new item, but a Chinese company introducing something new an innovative to the market doesn't happen. They typically tend to capitalize on knock-offs or very "similar" technology to existing products.


Do you have any references to back that up that stat? I have no idea myself, but I understand that many companies focus on cost and efficiency, which in itself provides significant value.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Inter, Can you send a few pictures to [email protected] ?
> 
> If so, please clean up the area before taking photos so we can have a look at what is going on. Once we have a look, we can provide further comments.


so what do you think? I emailed also.
looks like the thin skin is peeling off. what may have caused it?


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

inter said:


> so what do you think? I emailed also.
> looks like the thin skin is peeling off. what may have caused it?


i'm no expert, and it's pretty small, but looks like a rock strike to me.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Looks like clearcoat dmg to me. I got a whole lot of that by sticking a carbon seatpost into a metal frame (easton ec90).


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

jonshonda said:


> Well, I just don't think China does much without being asked to. 99.9 times out of 100 someone comes to China to manufacture a new item, but a Chinese company introducing something new an innovative to the market doesn't happen. They typically tend to capitalize on knock-offs or very "similar" technology to existing products.


I would think it would be hard for a culture such as China to anticipate some of our needs especially US mountain bikers. I'm not a China fanboy, in fact I feel our industry and government leaders should work on providing a stronger more specialized long term manufacturing base.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

objectuser said:


> i'm no expert, and it's pretty small, but looks like a rock strike to me.


yeah it is small about the size of a nipple, I am just a little worry, it may "grow", the rims only 1 month old. It may caused by rock strike, not sure, but I saw the skin peeling off while cleaning bike. Like Varaxis said, clearcoat damage.


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

I have some surface crap on mine, but it doesn't look worrying to me. But mine are over a year old and have spent a couple of summers on the Colorado Front Range will all the rocks and crap there. Very happy with the result so far.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

maybe a bit of clear nailpolish to seal it up and stop any de-laminating? not sure if the nail polish is to harsh for the rest of the clear coat though


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

inter said:


> so what do you think? I emailed also.
> looks like the thin skin is peeling off. what may have caused it?


Hi Inter,

It looks like that was caused from a rock strike. That is the matte finish which has bubbled up a bit, it is not the carbon fiber. The best way to check these areas for significant damage (to the actual carbon) is to press on it. If you feel it move, then you've got a weak spot.


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

Welcome! I've had 3 sets of LB rims and they've all been awesome. 

Hopefully this thread can stay focused on tech support for existing customers.

My question:any suggestions on how to repair cosmetic damage (scrapes etc) on your rims?
I have some UD gloss finish rims that are looking pretty rough although functionally they're %100.
I also have some UD matte rims, same question.

Thanks!


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## ckspeed (May 25, 2012)

LB, will you be mfg any other asymmetrical 26 inch rim in the 30mm internal width beside the 28in that were mention a few times in MTBR? I like the 31.6mm that I have but would like to build a 26 Asym wheelset in 30mm internal width.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

FM said:


> Welcome! I've had 3 sets of LB rims and they've all been awesome.
> 
> Hopefully this thread can stay focused on tech support for existing customers.
> 
> ...


Hi FM, I'll need to consult with some more team members on this to see what might help. I have been thinking about this lately as well. Here are my initial thoughts:

- They could be wet-sanded and then apply a new finish (probably not feasible for most end-users)
- Clean as best you can and apply new stickers to cover up the bad scrapes from someone like this
- We've seen clear protective tape made by 3M etc. used to protect carbon bike frames from damage. Is anyone doing this for carbon rims?
- We are testing some new ideas to improve the scratch resistance on future rims. I think scratches will be inevitable, but as with anything it can be improved upon.

I'll ask around when some of the other workers are back and see if they have any suggestions on how to help.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ckspeed said:


> LB, will you be mfg any other asymmetrical 26 inch rim in the 30mm internal width beside the 28in that were mention a few times in MTBR? I like the 31.6mm that I have but would like to build a 26 Asym wheelset in 30mm internal width.


Hi ckspeed,

If you sign up for our Newsletter, we'll be sending out a product poll. The poll will list a number of rims we are considering and you can vote for your favourite. You will also have the opportunity to list your dream rim if it's not listed in the poll.

The easiest way to sign up for our newsletter is by going to our website and scrolling down to the bottom. You just have to provide your e-mail and that's it. We will only be sending occasional newsletters, but if you ever wish to remove yourself from the list you just click the "unsubscribe" button at the bottom of your email and then you are removed.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Hi LB,

I have heard/read some rumors that you will soon be offering a 35 mm offset rim for 29ers.

Is there any truth to that?

If so, when will they be available for order?

Thanks for the direct communication pipeline!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

kosmo said:


> Hi LB,
> 
> I have heard/read some rumors that you will soon be offering a 35 mm offset rim for 29ers.
> 
> ...


Hi Kosmo,

We are going through a few more revisions and will have a number of asymmetrical rims available to order on our website later this month (or asap), including a 34mm 29er.


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## Buzzaro (Jan 27, 2008)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Inter,
> 
> It looks like that was caused from a rock strike. That is the matte finish which has bubbled up a bit, it is not the carbon fiber. The best way to check these areas for significant damage (to the actual carbon) is to press on it. If you feel it move, then you've got a weak spot.


He could also tap on with something, like a quarter or small box wrench. The good carbon will give a resonating sound while a damaged area will give a dull thud.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Inter,
> 
> It looks like that was caused from a rock strike. That is the matte finish which has bubbled up a bit, it is not the carbon fiber. The best way to check these areas for significant damage (to the actual carbon) is to press on it. If you feel it move, then you've got a weak spot.


LB, no weak spot, no leaking air also. Just worry it will "grow". for now, I just put clear tape on it.


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## JPanaccione (Nov 17, 2014)

I've had a set of your wheels for over a year, super happy with them! Just wish I had decals made for them instead of blank rims... Guess I'll order decals on my next set.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

inter said:


> LB, no weak spot, no leaking air also. Just worry it will "grow". for now, I just put clear tape on it.


Hi Inter, We received your e-mail but we might as well finish the conversation on MTBR since it was posted here already. Another option to consider would be applying masking tape all around the area and then wetting very fine grit sandpaper and removing the "bubbly" top layer in that area. Sand very lightly as you don't want to be sanding the actual carbon. Then remove the masking tape. The masking tape is just there so you don't accidentally sand too much surface area. I don't think it will spread that easily unless it gets hit by a rock in that same area. I would just keep an eye on it for now, or apply a clear layer of tape over that spot as you've said.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Kosmo,
> 
> We are going through a few more revisions and will have a number of asymmetrical rims available to order on our website later this month (or asap), including a 34mm 29er.


Thanks!

It would be worth mentioning here when those new rims hit your website.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Cool. I've been following threads/posts about Light Bicycle for a really long time so this is exciting to see. 

I like your website. One thing that would be nice though to see in the future is the ability to configure and order one wheel (front or back) instead of being locked into a pair. Stan's is like this as well as others. 

I just find it to be more flexible and easier to upgrade, or if you blow up a wheel (any brand) and want to replace it etc. I bought just a rear wheel online (Stan's) earlier this year even because I wanted a 2nd rear wheel with a dif tire setup. 

I probably would have bought an LB wheel by now if it were setup that way.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

zephxiii said:


> Cool. I've been following threads/posts about Light Bicycle for a really long time so this is exciting to see.
> 
> I like your website. One thing that would be nice though to see in the future is the ability to configure and order one wheel (front or back) instead of being locked into a pair. Stan's is like this as well as others.
> 
> ...


Hi zephxiii,

This is a great suggestion. We have assumed customers would e-mail us for an option not shown on the website, but I agree that it would be nice to have a single wheel option built into the program. Maybe the first option would be "complete wheelset", "front wheel only", "rear wheel only".

Last week we launched an improved wheelset building tool that provides some pictures and information as you click through the options. I'll see if our programmer can add the front/rear/complete option to this.


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

Regarding rims scratches, my rear rim is covered with scuffs and scratches, some pretty deep. I've been riding on this for the last year and it's holding up just fine. I think that little nick will be ok.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

amish_matt said:


> Regarding rims scratches, my rear rim is covered with scuffs and scratches, some pretty deep. I've been riding on this for the last year and it's holding up just fine. I think that little nick will be ok.
> 
> View attachment 1034291


well I don't see yours delaminating. Mine is.


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Hi LB
Thanks for posting here. I've bought 2 Wheelsets from you which were both great. 
Do you plan on offering Bitex hubs anytime soon? I'm curious as to why you guys are sticking with Novatec, which are absolutely garbage. I've blown up multiple rear 772's and I know many folks who have had the same experience. The Bitex hub is very affordable , light and high engagement for what it is. Why stick with Novatec? I think I would have already bought a few more wheels from the LB builders if you offered a Bitex option.
Thanks


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

elsinore said:


> Hi LB
> Thanks for posting here. I've bought 2 Wheelsets from you which were both great.
> Do you plan on offering Bitex hubs anytime soon? I'm curious as to why you guys are sticking with Novatec, which are absolutely garbage. I've blown up multiple rear 772's and I know many folks who have had the same experience. The Bitex hub is very affordable , light and high engagement for what it is. Why stick with Novatec? I think I would have already bought a few more wheels from the LB builders if you offered a Bitex option.
> Thanks


We tried selling the Bitex hubs in the past but they were not very popular for us, so we had to stop stocking them. In another post, we were talking about offering individual wheels. So maybe a good option would be to match a black DT Swiss 350 or Hope rear to a front wheel with a cheaper black Novatec hub.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Update: We should have the individual wheel program updated on our site by the end of this week!



light bicycle said:


> Hi zephxiii,
> 
> This is a great suggestion. We have assumed customers would e-mail us for an option not shown on the website, but I agree that it would be nice to have a single wheel option built into the program. Maybe the first option would be "complete wheelset", "front wheel only", "rear wheel only".
> 
> ...


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## alixta (Dec 27, 2006)

Are you looking to offer the Novatech D542SB hub as a wheelbuild option soon?


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## phazedalx (Jun 22, 2007)

The new wheel configure page is great.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

light bicycle said:


> Update: We should have the individual wheel program updated on our site by the end of this week!


Awesome! Thank You. I'll definitely be playing around with that as I am planning on at least a rear wheel for the road bike, and front for the 29er.

I was playing around with the wheel program prior to posting and thought it was pretty sweet.


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## Twiggy (Feb 18, 2004)

elsinore said:


> Hi LB
> Thanks for posting here. I've bought 2 Wheelsets from you which were both great.
> Do you plan on offering Bitex hubs anytime soon? I'm curious as to why you guys are sticking with Novatec, which are absolutely garbage. I've blown up multiple rear 772's and I know many folks who have had the same experience. The Bitex hub is very affordable , light and high engagement for what it is. Why stick with Novatec? I think I would have already bought a few more wheels from the LB builders if you offered a Bitex option.
> Thanks


Agreed - I've been considering a set of LB wheels for some time now, but the hubs are what throws me off. I don't want to spend the additional $$ for the higher-end hub offerings, but my experience has always been that Bitex hubs are much better than the NovaTec equivalents.

I may end up buying rims separately and having them built to Bitex hubs locally.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

LB

Two questions: any idea if the DT Swiss 240 hubs will be available with Boost 148 rear?

And with your wheel builder could you add a feature that totals build weight. 

Thanks


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## alixta (Dec 27, 2006)

jon123 said:


> Two questions: any idea if the DT Swiss 240 hubs will be available with Boost 148 rear?


 ... and DT 350 in Boost too please.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

jon123 said:


> LB
> 
> Two questions: any idea if the DT Swiss 240 hubs will be available with Boost 148 rear?
> 
> ...


Hi Jon123,

Yes, we are ordering Boost DT 240 hubs, they might not be here until ~February though.

For the wheelset weight, yes we would like to add this in the future. If you want to check DT wheelset weights with our rims, the DT Swiss spoke calculator is very accurate. Enter the rim ERD and weights and then choose from the list of DT Swiss parts (spokes/hubs/nipples). It will calculate the weights of the front/rear and wheelset. It even accounts for the weight change due to spoke lengths.

If you happen to have other hubs, you could still use this calculator and override the hub weight by looking up on the manufacturers website. Here is the link: https://spokes-calculator.dtswiss.com/en/calculator


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

alixta said:


> ... and DT 350 in Boost too please.


Hi Alixta, Initially, we were planning on doing DT 240's and Hopes in Boost format. We'll re-consider boost 350's. Do you prefer the J-bend or straight pull version, centerlock or 6-bolt rotors, 28 or 32h?

Do you think the Boost hubs will be really popular in 2016, and is it mostly the boost rear hubs people will want or the complete set? There is a boost front hub which is 110x15mm instead of 100x15mm.

Sorry, you asked us 1 question and we respond with asking you 5 more questions... :skep:

Thank You!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

alixta said:


> Are you looking to offer the Novatech D542SB hub as a wheelbuild option soon?


Sorry, I missed this reply yesterday. I don't think we'll be offering this hub option. We are concentrating on the Hope hubs and DT Swiss 350/240 level.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Alixta, Initially, we were planning on doing DT 240's and Hopes in Boost format. We'll re-consider boost 350's. Do you prefer the J-bend or straight pull version, centerlock or 6-bolt rotors, 28 or 32h?
> 
> Do you think the Boost hubs will be really popular in 2016, and is it mostly the boost rear hubs people will want or the complete set? There is a boost front hub which is 110x15mm instead of 100x15mm.
> 
> ...


I know you didn't ask me this question but ... I think you will find there will be increasing demand for Boost hubs. Frame manufacturers are switching over - Santa Cruz, Ibis, Pivot, Yeti for example. And it's only going to increase.


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## alixta (Dec 27, 2006)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Alixta, Initially, we were planning on doing DT 240's and Hopes in Boost format. We'll re-consider boost 350's. Do you prefer the J-bend or straight pull version, centerlock or 6-bolt rotors, 28 or 32h?
> 
> Do you think the Boost hubs will be really popular in 2016, and is it mostly the boost rear hubs people will want or the complete set? There is a boost front hub which is 110x15mm instead of 100x15mm.


Personally I'd go DT350 over Hope, also J over straight and 32. Especially with DT350 being US$80 cheaper than Hope on your site.

I'd speculate that the majority of new boost bikes will be boost front and rear. How that translates to sales for you guys is hard to say though.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

jon123 said:


> I know you didn't ask me this question but ... I think you will find there will be increasing demand for Boost hubs. Frame manufacturers are switching over - Santa Cruz, Ibis, Pivot, Yeti for example. And it's only going to increase.


Thank you for your feedback Jon. Yes, it's hard for us to figure out when it will start to change and if the boost front wheels will be as popular as the rears.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

alixta said:


> Personally I'd go DT350 over Hope, also J over straight and 32. Especially with DT350 being US$80 cheaper than Hope on your site.
> 
> I'd speculate that the majority of new boost bikes will be boost front and rear. How that translates to sales for you guys is hard to say though.


Thank you Alixta, yes we might need to get some 350 boost hubs ordered as well. We do see that J-bend/32h/6-bolt disc hubs are more popular.


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Thanks for participating in the forum LB! I have your rims in two Pivot bikes and they have been wonderful. Over 2500 miles of riding and still going strong.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> Thank you Alixta, yes we might need to get some 350 boost hubs ordered as well. We do see that J-bend/32h/6-bolt disc hubs are more popular.


FWIW, I would predict that offering DT350 hubs in Boost 148/110, J-Bend, 32 hole, 6-bolt configuration will significantly increase your sales.

I know a lot of serious riders that own nothing other than DT hubs, due almost solely to the star-drive ratchet mechanism. Many race on 240s, but find 350s more than adequate for every day training wheels.


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

Light Bicycle,

Is there an option to get only the logo on your avatar put on the rims vs the large Light-Bicycle logo that is available now? Do your decals go under the clear coat?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

kosmo said:


> FWIW, I would predict that offering DT350 hubs in Boost 148/110, J-Bend, 32 hole, 6-bolt configuration will significantly increase your sales.
> 
> I know a lot of serious riders that own nothing other than DT hubs, due almost solely to the star-drive ratchet mechanism. Many race on 240s, but find 350s more than adequate for every day training wheels.


Hi Kosmo, yes we are wondering about this also. The 350's have really good value and one could upgrade the bearings if they wanted something one step closer to 240's. The freehubs are the same. 240's and 350's are upgradeable to 36 and 54t star ratchets and we see the availability getting better on these.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Acme54321 said:


> Light Bicycle,
> 
> Is there an option to get only the logo on your avatar put on the rims vs the large Light-Bicycle logo that is available now? Do your decals go under the clear coat?


Hi Acme,

We just designed the new logo (on our Avatar). Our current models are not replaceable and are applied underneath. We are working on new decal designs that are replaceable and applied on top of the clear coat. This style is a bit heavier and thicker than the current decals, but I think the new design will look awesome and it is nice to be able to replace them easily!

I am not quite sure what is happening with your Avatar. But i like it.


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Jon123,
> 
> Yes, we are ordering Boost DT 240 hubs, they might not be here until ~February though.
> 
> ...


I asked DT swiss about the availability of 240 hubs in boost format, and was told that they would be an ENVE only option for 2016.
Can you confirm that you are going to get some ?

If so, then i might be very interested.


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Acme,
> 
> We just designed the new logo (on our Avatar). Our current models are not replaceable and are applied underneath. We are working on new decal designs that are replaceable and applied on top of the clear coat. This style is a bit heavier and thicker than the current decals, but I think the new design will look awesome and it is nice to be able to replace them easily!
> 
> I am not quite sure what is happening with your Avatar. But i like it.


These just came in today. I think it looks pretty good.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

Acme54321 said:


> These just came in today. I think it looks pretty good.
> 
> View attachment 1044177


are those the only decals on the rims? i like that style much better than the old one


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

obs08 said:


> are those the only decals on the rims? i like that style much better than the old one


Yeah those are the only ones. I specifically requested them this way so I don't know if they plan to make it a normal thing or not. These may be the only ones they ever do like this unless you specifically ask, I don't know.

They do look loads better than the old logo. There was way too much going on with that. These are the first I've ordered from them with any sort of logos.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

Acme54321 said:


> Yeah those are the only ones. I specifically requested them this way so I don't know if they plan to make it a normal thing or not. These may be the only ones they ever do like this unless you specifically ask, I don't know.
> 
> They do look loads better than the old logo. There was way too much going on with that. These are the first I've ordered from them with any sort of logos.


totally agree, low key is nice. those old logos were obnoxious


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Just ordered my third set to build up a lighter trail oriented wheelset for my Mach 6.


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## dischucker (Apr 9, 2008)

I just got an email reply from LB where they mentioned Chinese New Year is Feb 8, when the factory will shutdown for 2 weeks. Expect delays in delivery during this period!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

20.100 FR said:


> I asked DT swiss about the availability of 240 hubs in boost format, and was told that they would be an ENVE only option for 2016.
> Can you confirm that you are going to get some ?
> 
> If so, then i might be very interested.


We've got Boost hubs on order from DT Swiss, 240's and 350's. Hope Pro 4's in Boost on the way as well.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

*Asymmetrical Rim Update*

Our new asymmetrical rims are now online and in stock, here are the details:

We have had these molds at the factory for a while now but wanted to perfect the layup and the whole program before releasing on our website. The new rims are 28mm internally and 34mm externally with a relatively thick and short hookless bead for solid impact protection. They have the usual bead seat bump for ease of tubeless setup and security against burping. The 650 version weighs in at 400-410g per rim and the 29 425-435g. We've called the lighter version the AM728 and AM928 respectively (7 or 9 is for the diameter, and the 28 is the internal width). The AM is the light version, and the EN728 and EN928 is the heavier version with extra reinforcement which adds about 45-50g to each rim. We do a complete T700 3k wrap internally so you're getting reinforcement on the sidewalls, center channel, and nipple seats. The EN version is good for more aggressive Enduro style riders.

We have these rims in stock with a UD matte finish and they can ship within 2 days. If you prefer a glossy finish, 3k, or 12k weave exterior, we can still make those for you, but there would be a wait.

We have gone with a new style of decal for these rims which are easily replaceable, so you can swap to another colour or replace if you get a bad scratch. All of these rims come with decals at no extra charge and you can choose from the 7 different colours at checkout (all colours are in stock).

The spoke holes are drilled on angles (left/right/left) so the nipples pull more in line with the spokes which reduces stress. The asymmetric profile is offset 2.6mm which evens out the spoke tension from left to right. It results in a more durable wheel build and we did not go too crazy on the offset so it works great with boost hubs as well as standard.

We offer a 2 year 25% off crash replacement policy (on these rims only).

At checkout, we've added a PP35 discount code which essentially removes the PayPal fee. This is active for these rims only.

27.5 - 28/34mm
29 - 28/34mm

Our new lightweight black anodized alloy valves and tubeless rim tape are now in stock. We've added that to the accessories tab on our site. You can order it as a separate item for now, but we will be adding it to our wheel builds soon (so that you can have it installed for you).

Tape and Valves


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

making space


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

obs08 said:


> i sent you a pm but you didnt respond, i am trying so talk to someone about my order and its very difficult. how can i get in contact with someone?


They're in china. The chat on their website goes live around 8-9pm EST and I have never had a problem using that.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

Acme54321 said:


> They're in china. The chat on their website goes live around 8-9pm EST and I have never had a problem using that.


i understand they are in china, i will try to use their chat tonight thank you. i was just trying to get a hold of someone and figured they were online right now posting. i am single dad so sometimes by 9pm i am ready to pass out


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

obs08 said:


> i understand they are in china, i will try to use their chat tonight thank you. i was just trying to get a hold of someone and figured they were online right now posting. i am single dad so sometimes by 9pm i am ready to pass out


Our office hours are Monday~ Friday: 8:30am to 19:30pm Time zone (UTC) ; Saturday: 8:30am to 12:30am

Current local time in China: 1/27/2016, 5:33:00 AM

E-mail : [email protected]
Sales : +86-18030305013
Skype : light_bicycle
Chat: There is a live chat at the bottom of our website. If you leave a message during office hours, we will be able to chat live, otherwise we will follow up by e-mail. We take lunch together at ~12 daily so there may be a delay during this time.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Light bicycle

When will the asymmetrical 28mm rims you talk about be available online as a wheelset? Not just rim only option. 

Thanks


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

jon123 said:


> Light bicycle
> 
> When will the asymmetrical 28mm rims you talk about be available online as a wheelset? Not just rim only option.
> 
> Thanks


Hi Jon,

They are available now, we just have to build them up. We'll be updating the site to add a wheels page and the custom wheel build form, but for now you can just send us an e-mail with what you'd like and we'll provide a quote by e-mail.

[email protected] is best.

Thank You!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

jon123 said:


> Light bicycle
> 
> When will the asymmetrical 28mm rims you talk about be available online as a wheelset? Not just rim only option.
> 
> Thanks


We added them to this section now: custom mountain wheels Light-Bicycle

We'll add them to our carbon wheels section soon as well.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

light bicycle said:


> We added them to this section now: custom mountain wheels Light-Bicycle
> 
> We'll add them to our carbon wheels section soon as well.


Please advise when you've added them to the carbon wheels section AND when the Pro 4 hubs are in stock.

Thanks


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

welcome to the boards. I enjoy chatting directly with the manufacturers here.

So, I don't have a question, just wanted to welcome you and endorse the products. I just built my second set of LB rims. I cracked the first running too-low pressures in a bike park. Totally my fault and a full year past the warranty expiration but hey, it IS a wear item after all. In my opinion if you don't beat up your rims you're not riding hard enough. Reason I mention it is I ran those cracked rims (set up tubeless) for a full summer of local trail riding and they still held air. Eventually the cracks grew and I got a little worried, but for anyone worried about scratches or cosmetic damage, rest easy, these things are very strong.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

RTM said:


> welcome to the boards. I enjoy chatting directly with the manufacturers here.
> 
> So, I don't have a question, just wanted to welcome you and endorse the products. I just built my second set of LB rims. I cracked the first running too-low pressures in a bike park. Totally my fault and a full year past the warranty expiration but hey, it IS a wear item after all. In my opinion if you don't beat up your rims you're not riding hard enough. Reason I mention it is I ran those cracked rims (set up tubeless) for a full summer of local trail riding and they still held air. Eventually the cracks grew and I got a little worried, but for anyone worried about scratches or cosmetic damage, rest easy, these things are very strong.


Thank you for the kind words and your support. We love hearing these stories from our customers!!


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## Bullit_cn (Feb 24, 2004)

My WiSH for Light-Bicycle is to step up their customer and after sales service.

I have bought 2 sets of wheels from them. the first rim crack after regular riding and given a $15 dollar discount on the replacement...duh. I take it anyway coz I need to ride asap.

A second rim fail with 1 spoke pulled out of the rim. the reply I got is my rim is over a year and out of warranty. that's all.

I am NOT asking for a free rim. they should at least help a rider get back on the wheels faster. Am I right???


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## TheUnknownRider (Oct 2, 2015)

I bought a set of Bitex hubs from BHS and shipped them to l-b last November. Shipping to China wasn't cheap, about $55, but I still ended up with a great wheelset for considerably less than any other option. Basically a pair of l-b 38/i32 AM with Bitex/BHS 180/270 hubs and XD freehub for $780 total all in assembled, shipping both ways and everything. Also had custom paint, but no decals. Service for me was great. Warranty is warranty; nothing is promised after when it's expired.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Hey LB, I have been super happy with my 38mm, 650b rims.. Had them built up locally with Lefty front hub and Am Class 225 rear hub. 1,700 grams. 

I saw a question the other day regarding water getting into the wheel through the spokes and it has no way to escape. I never thought about this before, but it is true. I saw another Carbon Fiber rim had a weep hole next to the valve stem on the sidewall. That makes sense. It only allows water to drain from the cavity on the other side of the tubeless zone. My old aluminum rims had a pinned joint so water was able to escape. No such route for your rims without a weep hole.

Thanks for your support.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Prophet Julio said:


> I saw a question the other day regarding water getting into the wheel through the spokes and it has no way to escape. I never thought about this before, but it is true. I saw another Carbon Fiber rim had a weep hole next to the valve stem on the sidewall. That makes sense. It only allows water to drain from the cavity on the other side of the tubeless zone. My old aluminum rims had a pinned joint so water was able to escape. No such route for your rims without a weep hole.
> 
> Thanks for your support.


If your spokes are tensioned properly it is essentially water tight. It is not truly water tight but unless the rim is submersed, in a stationary position for hours, maybe days, there should be no way a significant amount of water could get in. I've never seen a rim with a weep hole. I'd think that would invite more water in than the microscopic gaps between a tensioned nipple/spoke and rim.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

RTM said:


> If your spokes are tensioned properly it is essentially water tight. It is not truly water tight but unless the rim is submersed, in a stationary position for hours, maybe days, there should be no way a significant amount of water could get in. I've never seen a rim with a weep hole. I'd think that would invite more water in than the microscopic gaps between a tensioned nipple/spoke and rim.


Derby is the brand with drain holes. I have a pair, and am not sold on it being an advantage.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

*crack LB rim*

My 5 month old rear rim just crack on last ride. not sure how it happened, no crashes, no jumping, no big drops.
Wondering what kind of warranty, or if i still could fix it. I already email LB.

it was 25 miles or trail riding, mix of smooth flowy singletrack, some rock garden, fire road, etc..nothing crazy technical. I noticed this crack at mile 19 while waiting for my buddies. i honestly did not recall any impact or rock strike. No leaking so far, still holding the pressure well.

this is the same rim on my previous post regarding delaminating spot, which I put clear tape over, you can see on this pic as well.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Hi light-bicycle do you have asymmetric rims wider than the 28/34?


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## Dangeroo0 (Apr 15, 2015)

I wouldn't ride that it might fail badly. Really its a tough environment for carbon rims and it could have been damaged/scratched earlier without noticing on a rock strike etc, thats what happens with carbon components. Bad luck but I would not hesitate on getting a replacement, so many people have had good service from these rims and there are bound to be failures/damage in the law of averages with what we do with them in my opinion.


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## BJG718 (Nov 30, 2015)

rave81 said:


> Hi light-bicycle do you have asymmetric rims wider than the 28/34?


This. I'm curious, as well.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

BJG718 said:


> This. I'm curious, as well.


We have a 40mm wide asymmetrical rim coming in April


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Prophet Julio said:


> Hey LB, I have been super happy with my 38mm, 650b rims.. Had them built up locally with Lefty front hub and Am Class 225 rear hub. 1,700 grams.
> 
> I saw a question the other day regarding water getting into the wheel through the spokes and it has no way to escape. I never thought about this before, but it is true. I saw another Carbon Fiber rim had a weep hole next to the valve stem on the sidewall. That makes sense. It only allows water to drain from the cavity on the other side of the tubeless zone. My old aluminum rims had a pinned joint so water was able to escape. No such route for your rims without a weep hole.
> 
> Thanks for your support.


One option could be to remove your tire and tubeless valve stem and spin the wheel fast. The centrifugal force should spit water out through the valve hole. It would work even better if the tubeless tape was removed.

It seems that if one was worried about the weight of such fluid this would be a logical way to reduce weight: Remove the tires every ~2 or 3 months to remove all of the dried up tubeless sealant off the tire and the rim, spin any water out of the rim and dry it out over night, then apply new tape and new sealant.

We do have angular drilled holes and started using a bit of grease under the nipple heads when building wheels, so this should reduce the amount of water being able to penetrate the rims.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Some more updates:

We are bringing in DT's Competition Race spokes so we have another double butted round spoke option. These are 2/1.6/2mm instead of 2/1.8/2mm like regular Competition spokes. They will make a wheel about 70 grams lighter than with traditional Comp spokes and about 30g heavier than built with our bladed spoke options. The price will be much cheaper than bladed and they are quite strong. It would be a good choice for AM riding.

We have released more asymmetric rims, a 30mm wide 650b rim and a 28mm wide 29" rim. AM724 asymmetric rim profile carbon 650b mountain bike rims Light-Bicycle
XC923 asymmetric rim profile carbon 29er bike rims Light-Bicycle

We are adding more standard wheelset builds including our asymmetrical line. We have more updating to do, so if you don't see the combination you want you can e-mail us or check our custom wheelset form.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Will you be able to offer the
DT Aero Comp ( 2.0 - 2.3x1.2 - 2.0mm ) spokes as well?

Those on any of the standard wheel build sets would be extremely interesting, especially with the variety of hubs on offer.


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## Jammy9398 (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi, please feel free to contact if you choose. 

I am looking for a wide wheelset that is strong. I am nearly 300lbs. I need something strong. I defenitely would like LOUD hubs.. What is your recommendation?

Thank you.


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

LB- My local shop talked me into trying your product (same shop SDMTB'er haunts). I purchased a set of rims back in JAN and the shop built them up with I9 hubs. Weight is as advertised, and out on the trail they feel as good as the Easton Carbon Havens and EC70 Trails wheelsets that I run on my other bikes. Can't beat the price, and the overall quality seems to be pretty good. I run them on some choppy DH sections at nearly 40MPH without a concern of failure. I've been recommending them to my buddies who want to upgrade, and am actually going to order a set of 27.5+ to build up on my stock hubs once I get some extra cash.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

tehllama said:


> Will you be able to offer the
> DT Aero Comp ( 2.0 - 2.3x1.2 - 2.0mm ) spokes as well?
> 
> Those on any of the standard wheel build sets would be extremely interesting, especially with the variety of hubs on offer.


For now we are just offering 2/2.2/.9/2mm bladed spokes. If you are concerned about strength or durability, we could use round spokes on the rear and bladed up front as an option. We brought in Competition Race spokes which are probably similar in strength and weight to the Aero Comps. We have to order in large quantities from DT Swiss, in many sizes, and it takes quite a while to get them so when we offer new spokes it has to be a commitment for the whole lineup ideally.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

SprSonik said:


> LB- My local shop talked me into trying your product (same shop SDMTB'er haunts). I purchased a set of rims back in JAN and the shop built them up with I9 hubs. Weight is as advertised, and out on the trail they feel as good as the Easton Carbon Havens and EC70 Trails wheelsets that I run on my other bikes. Can't beat the price, and the overall quality seems to be pretty good. I run them on some choppy DH sections at nearly 40MPH without a concern of failure. I've been recommending them to my buddies who want to upgrade, and am actually going to order a set of 27.5+ to build up on my stock hubs once I get some extra cash.


I'm happy you are enjoying the product, thank you for the comments!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Jammy9398 said:


> Hi, please feel free to contact if you choose.
> 
> I am looking for a wide wheelset that is strong. I am nearly 300lbs. I need something strong. I defenitely would like LOUD hubs.. What is your recommendation?
> 
> Thank you.


Assuming you want strong 650b rims, either of these in the Heavy Duty version 32h would work well for you. carbon mountain bike rim-mountain bike rim,mountain rims,mtb rim,mtb rims,carbon mtb rim Light-Bicycle

The most reliable hubs that are loud are Chris King's. They will be able to handle the torque and be quite reliable for you. If you run 11 speed sram then the regular alloy freehub is fine, however if you run a standard HG cassette (not Sram 11 speed), you should consider their stainless steel freehub so that the cassette does not wear into the the softer alloy freehub. Our price on these isn't great, so I would recommend sourcing them locally or online and then just purchasing the rims from us. We can sell you the right spokes and nipples that you need if that makes it more convenient for you. Just send us an e-mail [email protected] and paste this conversation as reference.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

inter said:


> My 5 month old rear rim just crack on last ride. not sure how it happened, no crashes, no jumping, no big drops.
> Wondering what kind of warranty, or if i still could fix it. I already email LB.
> 
> it was 25 miles or trail riding, mix of smooth flowy singletrack, some rock garden, fire road, etc..nothing crazy technical. I noticed this crack at mile 19 while waiting for my buddies. i honestly did not recall any impact or rock strike. No leaking so far, still holding the pressure well.
> ...


Curious: Are you hauling your bike on a rack where the wheel might be sitting too close to the car's exhaust?


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## Twiggy (Feb 18, 2004)

I was just about ready to order some Light Bicycles 27mm (outer) 650B rims when I was recommend 'Carbon Bicycle' rims.... on their site (Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike -which looks the same as the Light Bicycles site) I can get 28mm wide Asymmetrical 650B wheels for the same price. I haven't been considering a lot of other retailers other than LB because in general they have the best reviews, but Carbon Bicycle has the same physical address and I can't help but wonder if its the same company.

Has anyone had Carbon Bicycle Asymmetrical rims they can comment on?


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

I have purchased three wheelset's and one set of rims from LB all have been trouble free. My last set of rims I ordered from carbon bicycle 35od 29id asked for 400 grams and they came at exact 400 gram's each. Now have 10 rides on them built with 240 dt hub's and there just right. I would recommend both companies.


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

I just received my 650b asym wheelset and am having a really difficult time getting my Maxxis tires onto the rim. Any suggestions?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

SikeMo said:


> I just received my 650b asym wheelset and am having a really difficult time getting my Maxxis tires onto the rim. Any suggestions?


soapy water and good tire levers. also a good IPA and gratuitous use of profanity helps.


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

*OneSpeed* said:


> soapy water and good tire levers. also a good IPA and gratuitous use of profanity helps.


The latter has definitely been used. I'll try the soapy water. I'm just nervous with the tire levers as these are my first carbon rims.


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## j0hn (May 27, 2011)

As you mount the tire, pull the entire length of the bead (all of the way around) down into the center channel as you go. It will naturally want to sit up on the bead seat. But by moving it into the center channel, you will have more slack to work with for the part of the tire not yet mounted. It can take a little practice to wrestle the entire thing down into the center channel at the same time and keep it there. But it makes all of the difference. Last weekend I mounted a fresh Maxxis tire on my LB rims without tools using this technique. And I don't have forearms like Popeye.

Just to keep going on this, use the same technique when removing the tire. First, squeeze the tire so it goes up over the bead seat and down into the center channel. Getting it started is the hardest part, but once it starts, the rest will be easy. Once you have the entire length of the tire bead down in the center channel, put your tire lever under the bead and pry it off. It will go about 10X easier that way.

I use soap on my hands once I'm done working with the tires.


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

I tried this and it was so much easier! I just pinched the bead all the way around the tire so that most of it was in the center channel and, voila, the last bit of the bead popped over effortlessly. Dumped in 3 oz of Orange tubeless 'juice', hooked up the compressor, and the bead popped into place no problem, without any soap. 

Thanks!


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## j0hn (May 27, 2011)

Glad to help. I got my rims last summer and after I spent way too long fighting a losing battle trying to mount the tire, a friend shared this pearl of wisdom with me. Now go forth and be radical my son.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

What tubeless sealant do you all use? Is there a product that's better (or worse) for carbon?


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

This is my first time trying Orange, but I've seen it recommended multiple times. You really have to shake it up, but it worked well on initial inflation for me. I'll report back after several rides.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Centurion_ said:


> What tubeless sealant do you all use? Is there a product that's better (or worse) for carbon?


Was using Orangeseal but now using something even better. A new Slime that I have had the chance to beta test during R&D since last Nov. The old stuff Slime Pro on the market now is good, too. This new stuff will not effect carbon hoops. Only a trace of ammonia that goes away. There's a carbon hoop soaking in it now. It should be released pretty soon. It's the bomb and one application will last a whole lot longer than any other goo. And it cleans up in soapy water! Watch for it!


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

Centurion_ said:


> What tubeless sealant do you all use? Is there a product that's better (or worse) for carbon?


I don't know about better or worse for carbon. I'm currently using Orange Seal. But I don't plan to buy it again. That stuff dries out fast. The Bontrager stuff worked better for me overall.


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## ckspeed (May 25, 2012)

objectuser said:


> I don't know about better or worse for carbon. I'm currently using Orange Seal. But I don't plan to buy it again. That stuff dries out fast. The Bontrager stuff worked better for me overall.


I agree, I prefer the Bontrager sealant over the Orange Seal. Try to remove the Orange Seal after it's dry is a pain.


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

After 20 hard months, my rear finally cracked:









This is the original 30/35mm hookless rim, not the new offset version. AM layup.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

@light-bicycle,

Do the new XC923 rims have +/- 4 degree angular drilled spoke holes like the AM928 rims?

Do they have centered nipple access holes (tire side of rim) like the AM928 rims?

What is the rationale for mis-aligning the nipple access holes (which are centered) from the offset/asym spoke holes? This makes it difficult/impossible to use nipple drivers through the access hole to build the wheel.


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## Justin MD (Sep 30, 2013)

Purchased Dec.17, 2016, received about 3 weeks later.

This was yesterday.


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## Justin MD (Sep 30, 2013)

This one lasted 10 months...


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## TheUnknownRider (Oct 2, 2015)

kind of doubting that alloy would have fared any better ...


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## BikeLust (Nov 5, 2004)

TheUnknownRider said:


> kind of doubting that alloy would have fared any better ...


I was just thinking this. I believe carbon has proven itself as a valid material and LB has proven to be a very good product at a much lower price point. Why aren't people posting snuff pictures of their taco'd and dented alloy rims? Carbon can and eventually will fail, but I'd be willing to bet my next three wheelsets that you will be replacing less carbon rims than you would be replacing alloy rims of similar weight and dimension.

These are likely the exception to the rule in my sig.


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## Justin MD (Sep 30, 2013)

TheUnknownRider said:


> kind of doubting that alloy would have fared any better ...


The top one, I don't think that one is my fault. Failed at a seam.

The second one I blame myself. Even though the drop was only about 2 feet tall I did give that rim hell a few days earlier.

I have submitted the pictures and info for warranty replacement. I'll post updates to let you all know how their customer service is.


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## phride (Sep 14, 2015)

Hey LB,

Thanks for joining the forum to share information with us. Do you have any plans to develop rims with an inside width measuring between the 31.6mm AM rims and 45mm plus rims?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

phride said:


> Hey LB,
> 
> Thanks for joining the forum to share information with us. Do you have any plans to develop rims with* inside diameter* between the 31.6mm AM rims and 45mm plus rims?


Inside width, not inside diameter.


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## phride (Sep 14, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> Inside width, not inside diameter.


Right. I was speccing piping before taking a break for lunch and posting that. I'll clean that up.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

SikeMo said:


> I just received my 650b asym wheelset and am having a really difficult time getting my Maxxis tires onto the rim. Any suggestions?


I like to let the tires sit in the sun for an hour or so, they are a little more pliable when warm.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

inter said:


> My 5 month old rear rim just crack on last ride. not sure how it happened, no crashes, no jumping, no big drops.
> Wondering what kind of warranty, or if i still could fix it. I already email LB.
> 
> it was 25 miles or trail riding, mix of smooth flowy singletrack, some rock garden, fire road, etc..nothing crazy technical. I noticed this crack at mile 19 while waiting for my buddies. i honestly did not recall any impact or rock strike. No leaking so far, still holding the pressure well.
> ...





Bullit_cn said:


> My WiSH for Light-Bicycle is to step up their customer and after sales service.
> 
> I have bought 2 sets of wheels from them. the first rim crack after regular riding and given a $15 dollar discount on the replacement...duh. I take it anyway coz I need to ride asap.
> 
> ...





amish_matt said:


> After 20 hard months, my rear finally cracked:
> 
> View attachment 1062582
> 
> ...





Justin MD said:


> Purchased Dec.17, 2016, received about 3 weeks later.
> 
> This was yesterday.





Justin MD said:


> This one lasted 10 months...





Justin MD said:


> The top one, I don't think that one is my fault. Failed at a seam.
> 
> The second one I blame myself. Even though the drop was only about 2 feet tall I did give that rim hell a few days earlier.
> 
> I have submitted the pictures and info for warranty replacement. I'll post updates to let you all know how their customer service is.


Five failed rims and no response to any of them. I'm sure it is difficult to know how to best respond to something other than glowing praise but some kind of response would be great. I'm curious what happened with @Justin MD's warranty submission.

I'll add my own cracked rim. I ride rocky terrain in Austin, Tx so it is generally not the most rim friendly place. I weigh ~205 lbs, don't smoke, only do small wuss sized drops.

Purchased 27.5 35/30 rims April of 2015 (so, out of warranty), built up and did my first ride on June of last year. According to GPS I have around 350 miles on them (most of my miles come by way of commuting on a different bike). No time spent at bike parks.

The only "events" I can think of that might have caused this were a pinch flat on a rock about a month ago (punctured the tire casing severely enough to where Stan's wouldn't seal) and then the rough spot I was descending on when I got the flat where I discovered the damaged area this past weekend.

I've been riding for over 20 years, have never taco'd a rim, have never crushed a rim.

Resolution from LB was a $10 discount on a new rim. I can't afford $200+ in yearly wheel expenses and I certainly don't want to incur the down time or have one fail during the rare bike trip so I am going to switch over to Stan's Flow MK3. Were I to get a stronger carbon rim, I'll be at the 450 gram range and would only be saving about 30 grams per rim by going with LB carbon over Stan's Flow MK3. Ibis has an alloy rim of the same width (29mm inner) but it is slightly heavier (500 grams) and Stan's just seem to last forever.

It is a bit frustrating to read that they came out with a new rim and are covering that one for 2 years with a 25% crash replacement warranty versus 1 year for the pair I purchased.

I personally know of several people who are having good luck with their LB rims and I know people here will just dismiss the failures as part of biking or anomolies but some might appreciate knowing before they buy.


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

Anita Handle said:


> Five failed rims and no response to any of them. I'm sure it is difficult to know how to best respond to something other than glowing praise but some kind of response would be great. I'm curious what happened with @Justin MD's warranty submission.
> 
> I'll add my own cracked rim. I ride rocky terrain in Austin, Tx so it is generally not the most rim friendly place. I weigh ~205 lbs, don't smoke, only do small wuss sized drops.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the post. As for your decision to go with the Flow as a replacement, are those rims pretty darn durable? Only reason I am looking into carbon at all is the supposed durability factor along with my relatively conservative riding style. Also, I have had issues with Stan's rims going out of true... a lot, but that is based on first gen Arch's, ZTR race or whatever they are called's, Crest's, and the original Alpha 340's on road. I know the Flow is wider, and meant for more abuse, and I actually read a post in one of the Chinese carbon wheel threads that a flow should actually be stronger. Do you believe that to be the case? It sounds like you have some experience with those rims, so I figure you are a good person to ask.

At the end of the day, durability is my main concern, then price, then weight, and I will gladly sacrifice weight if I can gain durability.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Wow! I must be very lucky, Ive been using my 23 mm ID LB's for almost two years and they are still holding on! just some scratches.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

garcia said:


> Appreciate the post. As for your decision to go with the Flow as a replacement, are those rims pretty darn durable? Only reason I am looking into carbon at all is the supposed durability factor along with my relatively conservative riding style. Also, I have had issues with Stan's rims going out of true... a lot, but that is based on first gen Arch's, ZTR race or whatever they are called's, Crest's, and the original Alpha 340's on road. I know the Flow is wider, and meant for more abuse, and I actually read a post in one of the Chinese carbon wheel threads that a flow should actually be stronger. Do you believe that to be the case? It sounds like you have some experience with those rims, so I figure you are a good person to ask.
> 
> At the end of the day, durability is my main concern, then price, then weight, and I will gladly sacrifice weight if I can gain durability.


I've never actually owned Flows. I've had Arches which I bought second hand laced up to i9s and then sold them to a friend who is now running them singlespeed and are still holding up well. You've probably had more experience with Stan's rims than I have so you have to use your gut on that. One thing that I do think matters is the quality of the build. I've always tried to get the best wheel builder in town to lace mine up. On my 29er Stumpjumper I have a set of Mavic TN-719 laced to DT Swiss 240s hubs that I've got the most miles on and I cannot destroy them despite wanting to lace them up with something wider.

Anecdotally, I've seen more trouble-free miles on Stan's rims than on any other rim amongst the people I know.

I also am not sure what would be a lighter and more durable choice without spending at least $400 for Derby or NOX composites. Ibis has an aluminum rim with 29mm inner diameter for $100 that looks promising. WTB i29 looks nice and is explicitly UST compatible but is a bit heavier than the Flow MK3.

Either way, the MK3 will be a slight gamble since they are new but Stan's products have only gotten better and better and they have solid support so I'm going to give them a shot.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

doccoraje said:


> Wow! I must be very lucky, Ive been using my 23 mm ID LB's for almost two years and they are still holding on! just some scratches.


Maybe you're lucky or maybe I was unlucky or maybe the physics of a more narrow rim and the amount of material used was in your favor. I do think it is telling that the newer asym rim has 25% thicker rim bead than the old rim and is touted to have better impact protection.



light bicycle said:


> Our new asymmetrical rims are now online and in stock, here are the details:
> 
> We have had these molds at the factory for a while now but wanted to perfect the layup and the whole program before releasing on our website. *The new rims are 28mm internally and 34mm externally with a relatively thick and short hookless bead for solid impact protection.* They have the usual bead seat bump for ease of tubeless setup and security against burping. The 650 version weighs in at 400-410g per rim and the 29 425-435g. We've called the lighter version the AM728 and AM928 respectively (7 or 9 is for the diameter, and the 28 is the internal width). The AM is the light version, and the EN728 and EN928 is the heavier version with extra reinforcement which adds about 45-50g to each rim. We do a complete T700 3k wrap internally so you're getting reinforcement on the sidewalls, center channel, and nipple seats. The EN version is good for more aggressive Enduro style riders.
> 
> *We offer a 2 year 25% off crash replacement policy (on these rims only).*


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

phride said:


> Hey LB,
> 
> Thanks for joining the forum to share information with us. Do you have any plans to develop rims with an inside width measuring between the 31.6mm AM rims and 45mm plus rims?


Ask and you shall receive


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

garcia said:


> I like to let the tires sit in the sun for an hour or so, they are a little more pliable when warm.


I've seen a few good tips on tire installation, thanks for sharing this one as well.

Another one to remember is to use very thin tubeless tape if your tires are tight (even once fully centered in the drop channel). Gorilla tape or using too many layers of tubeless tape adds enough thickness to make tires fit too tightly.


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

Slightly off topic, but what tire pressure do you guys recommend running on the new 38mm internal assym rims? I've got a 2.5 up front and a 2.3 rear and have been running 21psi and 24psi, respectively. How low do you think I can go?


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## BikeLust (Nov 5, 2004)

Like anything else in life, this is a question only you can answer. Like torquing the bolts on the stem of your bike, tighten until it breaks, then back off 1/4 turn.  I would try going a couple PSI lower on each ride until you either get too much sidewall flex, or you get a bottom out on the tire, then go back up 2 PSI. Keep in mind it's highly dependent on how aggressively you ride, they type of terrain, and how much gear you have in your pack.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

I've gotta think that some of you are running irresponsibly low pressures if you're blowing up LB rims like that.

I have over 2,500 miles on my set that is on my CX bike (fully rigid and small, low volume tires obviously) and I ride it on singletrack with softball sized rock gardens, small jumps, and ~1ft drops and I'm 235lbs. I motor them over fallen trees and have hit gopher holes hard enough to make my hands and man parts go numb (didn't see it coming, hit it with full weight on saddle/bars)

Obviously there is nastier terrain out there than what I'm riding on but I'm heavy and on a rigid bike. With 2.3-2.5" tires and 5" of suspension these could be ridden anywhere with the right pressures.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I would want to know which rims failed. The 38's? The 35's? Layup etc..?

A tire loses pressure and the impact to the rim happens during a descent. Could be catastrophic. I have taco'd a few alu rims. I will be curious to see how long my LB's last. They feel like they will last forever. Super happy with them.

As an aside, I had mine built locally by a very experienced and professional wheel builder. Lefty front hub, 32h and American Classic 225 Disc, 32h rear hub.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

Alias530 said:


> I've gotta think that some of you are running irresponsibly low pressures if you're blowing up LB rims like that.
> 
> I have over 2,500 miles on my set that is on my CX bike (fully rigid and small, low volume tires obviously) and I ride it on singletrack with softball sized rock gardens, small jumps, and ~1ft drops and I'm 235lbs. I motor them over fallen trees and have hit gopher holes hard enough to make my hands and man parts go numb (didn't see it coming, hit it with full weight on saddle/bars)
> 
> Obviously there is nastier terrain out there than what I'm riding on but I'm heavy and on a rigid bike. With 2.3-2.5" tires and 5" of suspension these could be ridden anywhere with the right pressures.


I generally run 25-28 in the rear, Bontrager XR3 2.35, mounted to a Devinci Spartan.

At the time that the rim broke, I had a tube in it and has just pumped it to 32-ish. So much higher than normal.

Maybe with your rim they used more material for the given width? Hard to tell. In my opinion, carbon rim makers should do a two year warranty and offer "crash" replacement at cost if not less. If they fear having to swap out too many rims, perhaps it would be motivation to add a small amount more material and/or improve the design.

I might have been ok with half price replacement cost and being down for the weeks it takes to get a rim but that's not what I was offered so I'm moving on to a different brand.

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

Prophet Julio said:


> I would want to know which rims failed. The 38's? The 35's? Layup etc..?
> 
> A tire loses pressure and the impact to the rim happens during a descent. Could be catastrophic. I have taco'd a few alu rims. I will be curious to see how long my LB's last. They feel like they will last forever. Super happy with them.
> 
> As an aside, I had mine built locally by a very experienced and professional wheel builder. Lefty front hub, 32h and American Classic 225 Disc, 32h rear hub.


Mine was the 35mm outer/30mm inner AM 650b rim.

http://www.light-bicycle.com/Hookle...mm-wide-AM-27-5-rims-tubeless-compatible.html

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Anita Handle said:


> I generally run 25-28 in the rear, Bontrager XR3 2.35, mounted to a Devinci Spartan.
> 
> At the time that the rim broke, I had a tube in it and has just pumped it to 32-ish. So much higher than normal.
> 
> ...


I have Rovals on my mountain bike and run 22 front/26 rear on 29x2.3 tires. No issues but I'm not hucking big jumps or drops. Have done a couple 3-4ft drops though no problem though.

And yeah there's something to be said for Enve's warranty (5 year, lifetime crash replacement). You certainly pay for it though...


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

That's what I thought. I like those companies and 5 years of warranty certainly speaks for the product.
On the other hand, how many LB rims can you get for one Enve? 


Von meinem iPhone gesendet.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The 35/30 rims have a lot less material in the rim strike area than the 38/31.6 rims. I was saving my $ for the Derby's when the LB 38's came out. 3.2mm at the lip vs 2.5mm and the depth of the rim, 32mm v 25mm. 15% more weight as well. Very different with regards to ultimate strength, theoretically.

Dr. Justin, did you get a response?


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## rare_breed (Nov 8, 2011)

@light bicycle: your silence toward those who have posted apparent warranty claim issues here is deafening. Why is LB ignoring these posts while replying to posts regarding new products and potential new sales?


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## Krypt0n1te (Apr 19, 2016)

rare_breed said:


> @light bicycle: your silence toward those who have posted apparent warranty claim issues here is deafening. Why is LB ignoring these posts while replying to posts regarding new products and potential new sales?


I assume they are communicating with them in private. Would still be better to do it via the open forum. This is coming from a potential future client.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

Krypt0n1te said:


> I assume they are communicating with them in private. Would still be better to do it via the open forum. This is coming from a potential future client.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


No communication with me via PM. Though in fairness, I emailed them about the failure and they responded very quickly. I didn't like the resolution, 10 dollar discount, but one was offered.

I'd have stayed with them and put up with the down time and multi week delivery time had they offered replacement for 50% off. Not enough benefit and too much risk in staying with them at this point.

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

> @light bicycle: your silence toward those who have posted apparent warranty claim issues here is deafening. Why is LB ignoring these posts while replying to posts regarding new products and potential new sales?


Common sense would dictate that wheels or rims you buy for...significantly less than half of market price for similar wheels or rims will fall short of the more expensive product, as will the warranty.

If that's too much to grasp, do without, or shell out a couple grand for a quality wheelset from a company that will stand behind their product. At those prices, you would expect them to do so.

At Light Bicycle or Carbon Cycle prices, you can't expect full warranty service. Oh they could do it. But then you'd be shelling out 2k for their wheels as well.

Having a front wheel built with a LB 35/30 rim as we speak. If I break it, I buy an i29 rim and move on. But at $180 bucks for their rim, LB gave me the opportunity to try carbon. Something I can't justify doing otherwise.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

Common sense also says that most companies are outsourcing their carbon rims and have to add a retail mark up on top of the cost of having the rim made for them, which includes some profit for the manufacturer, in order to cover marketing, warranty, testing, food on the table and whatnot. Then distributors and retailers need to add another mark up in order to have food on their table.

So it stands to reason that the manufacturer can cut out two rounds of Mark ups and still make a quality product, if they so chose. 

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## Krypt0n1te (Apr 19, 2016)

Anita Handle said:


> No communication with me via PM. Though in fairness, I emailed them about the failure and they responded very quickly. I didn't like the resolution, 10 dollar discount, but one was offered.
> 
> I'd have stayed with them and put up with the down time and multi week delivery time had they offered replacement for 50% off. Not enough benefit and too much risk in staying with them at this point.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


Very insightful, thanks. Can't actually believe they ignore the "problem" posts.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## Justin MD (Sep 30, 2013)

Justin MD said:


> Purchased Dec.17, 2016, received about 3 weeks later.
> 
> This was yesterday.


Ok so after going back and forth a few times about the incident they approved my replacement. A couple more emails and on 4-13-16 I paid $8 (upgraded to DH rim) and $45ish for shipping.

The rim arrived on 5-16-16.

SO that's the deal. They handled it like professionals. Took a little longer to get the rim than I thought but not so long that is was a huge disappointment.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

Justin MD said:


> Ok so after going back and forth a few times about the incident they approved my replacement. A couple more emails and on 4-13-16 I paid $8 (upgraded to DH rim) and $45ish for shipping.
> 
> The rim arrived on 5-16-16.
> 
> SO that's the deal. They handled it like professionals. Took a little longer to get the rim than I thought but not so long that is was a huge disappointment.


That is a positive outcome. Shipping seems crazy but at least you're not out $200. It does seem that they are taking care of people if the rim breaks while under warranty.

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

rare_breed said:


> @light bicycle: your silence toward those who have posted apparent warranty claim issues here is deafening. Why is LB ignoring these posts while replying to posts regarding new products and potential new sales?


Hi rare_breed,

I am not set up to actively discuss warranty issues here. This is why I asked for warranty related inquiries to be directed to our site in the original post and fill out a claim. These kinds of matters should be discussed privately by e-mail and not on an open forum. 
Warranty Policy - light-bicycle Light-Bicycle

We know there has been some frustration with warranty coverage at times. Here are a few comments that may help bring some clarity to where our business is at:

Our rims are constantly being improved, our percentage of cracked rims is now around 3% or less. This is a total percentage of rims that fail (many of which are rider error, not a manufacturing defect). Many of our new rims have shallower hookless beads which are also thicker and can handle impacts better. Our resins, carbon fiber, machinery, air bladders, and other manufacturing processes are always improving as well. We've come a long way in the past 5 years.

Many of our rims are priced very competitively so it is hard for us to offer a significant discount for crash replacement rims. There has to be a balance. In our case, we get compared to other Chinese manufacturers which (in most cases) do not put as much time into their product as we do, so it adds pricing pressure. We have been working on higher end product lines to start to cater to a broader customer base, while still offering value priced good quality rims direct to consumers.

Our asymmetric line of rims for example is inventoried so we can ship quickly. Yes it is more expensive (inventory and our product improvements cost more), but it does offer a higher level of service. The crash replacement coverage is increased and time period is doubled. With the addition of increased performance and durability etc. this could be a viable option for customers wanting something at this level.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

*Website improvements*

We have a few new website improvements I thought I would share with MTBR:

1. Our inventory system is now linked to our website. When you are choosing rims or wheelsets, the lead time will be displayed

2. The Wheelsets weight now calculates as you build and choose your options

3. We've had tubeless tape and valves available for a while, but now we've added them to the product pages as an option for convenience.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Seems to me like a pretty damned reasonable response. Thanks Light-Bike!


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

To me too. If even these prices had enough "dough" to allow large crash replacement and after-warranty claims, I would've been really surprised and frightened about the product quality itself.
This way it makes total sense. What you pay goes into the product itself, end of story.


Von meinem iPhone gesendet.


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## Krypt0n1te (Apr 19, 2016)

light bicycle said:


> Hi rare_breed,
> 
> I am not set up to actively discuss warranty issues here. This is why I asked for warranty related inquiries to be directed to our site in the original post and fill out a claim. These kinds of matters should be discussed privately by e-mail and not on an open forum.
> Warranty Policy - light-bicycle Light-Bicycle
> ...


Thank you, this reply definitely put me at ease.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Thank you, Light Bicycle.


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## panchosdad (Sep 21, 2008)

Just chiming in to say I'm loving my 30mm/DT 240 wheels, amazing upgrade.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

^^^

Fill us in panchosdad. Are these 30 inner or outside diameter? What tires are you running on them? Are you running less air pressure than before? How much? What's your weight?

Still waiting on my LBS to complete my front wheel build.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Anita Handle said:


> That is a positive outcome. Shipping seems crazy but at least you're not out $200.


Oh for God's sake... $45 to ship a 30"x30" box around the world is not crazy. Thats what it costs.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

92gli said:


> Oh for God's sake... $45 to ship a 30"x30" box around the world is not crazy. Thats what it costs.


$0 to not have to ship a rim that didn't break after riding it for three months would have been much better, IMO! lol.

LB, that is a reasonable response. If I were to wish for anything, it would have been to see descriptions for the intended application for the rim as you are now doing with the asym rims.

"All Mountain - This model is lightweight and suitable for cross country and all mountain riding. The AM model is suitable as a front rim for lighter Enduro riders.
Enduro - This version is a heavier weight due to the additional reinforcement. The thicker walls can handle heavier and more aggressive riders making this the best choice for Enduro style riding."

I think most riders want to get the right product for their application and that sort of verbiage helps them do this. I probably needed a heavier/stronger rim.

The wide rim space is getting competitive. With aluminum rims coming down in weight, it is harder to justify the extra cost of carbon. Looking forward to seeing what the Flow MK3 offers!


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Aluminum rims are coming down in weight because everyone is removing internal reinforcements and making the walls thinner in pursuit of width at the same weight. No thanks. 

The light bikes rims I've been riding are heavier than the Stan's rims they replaced several years ago. It's not about weight. It's stiffness, higher tension, ease of build, less need for truing.

There's no way for me to prove this, but I have never taken a spoke wrench to the wheels I built several years ago with LB rims. With careful tensioning they will never get the minor waves and hops that aluminum rims do. Round carbon stays round. 

Still rocking the first gen of their 30mm external width with bead hooks. A few weeks after I got them they came out with hookless and I was worried my rims would crack at the bead hooks eventually. This morning I had to remove a bontrager rim strip from my rear wheel for the first time in about two years. Did a close inspection and there is no chips or delams whatsoever. My only complaint about these rims was that specialized and maxxis tires were just a tad too loose on them and I had a lot of burping, so I had to use the rim strips. WTB tires are much tighter so I finally ditched the strips. Now they are perfect again.


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## rare_breed (Nov 8, 2011)

Centurion_ said:


> Common sense would dictate that wheels or rims you buy for...significantly less than half of market price for similar wheels or rims will fall short of the more expensive product, as will the warranty.
> 
> If that's too much to grasp, do without, or shell out a couple grand for a quality wheelset from a company that will stand behind their product. At those prices, you would expect them to do so.
> 
> ...


A company wants to profit from this free forum, and you think it's "common sense" to not even hold them accountable to their word, even if doing so publicly generates a positive outcome for us consumers? You're right, that is absolutely too much for me to grasp. Shill ya later....


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## panchosdad (Sep 21, 2008)

Centurion_ said:


> ^^^
> 
> Fill us in panchosdad. Are these 30 inner or outside diameter? What tires are you running on them? Are you running less air pressure than before? How much? What's your weight?
> 
> Still waiting on my LBS to complete my front wheel build.


30mm id, 29x2.5 DHF Front, 2.35 NN rear, running 20F/22R lbs, which is about what I was running before, haven't tried going lower. Burped the rear flat once riding at Little Creek. I weigh 155 plus gear. DHF is running true to size, NN is almost as big. Thing I notice most is how well this setup rails corners.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Awesome. Got my 30mm id 29er LB rim front wheel on the bike with a new ardent 2.4 and am about to take it out for it's first ride. At 200 lbs...I'm thinking...24psi.

Appreciate your input. Helps me to figure a starting point. A little too high...no big deal. A little to low...could be a VERY big deal.

Thanks.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Anita Handle said:


> $0 to not have to ship a rim that didn't break after riding it for three months would have been much better, IMO! lol.
> 
> LB, that is a reasonable response. If I were to wish for anything, it would have been to see descriptions for the intended application for the rim as you are now doing with the asym rims.
> 
> ...


This is good feedback, thank you. I will put some thought into this with the team.


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## SpecialCshoe (Mar 29, 2016)

Anita Handle said:


> Common sense also says that most companies are outsourcing their carbon rims and have to add a retail mark up on top of the cost of having the rim made for them, which includes some profit for the manufacturer, in order to cover marketing, warranty, testing, food on the table and whatnot. Then distributors and retailers need to add another mark up in order to have food on their table.
> 
> So it stands to reason that the manufacturer can cut out two rounds of Mark ups and still make a quality product, if they so chose.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


 This is exactly what is going on with a large percentage of wheels on the market right now. I recently purchased a set of carbon rims from overseas directly and my total end cost about 1/3 of going rate of carbon wheels purchased here in the states. The funny thing is the wheel hoops I just bought are exactly identical to Nox, Ibis and another large wheel Mfg'r. Is this coincidence! well no its not. The suppliers overseas are clearly selling the unlabeled items here in the states. The advertising is word of mouth plus a website at best. I wouldn't be surprised if the lid came completely off this very very soon.


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## MVK Explores (May 12, 2016)

rare_breed said:


> @light bicycle: your silence toward those who have posted apparent warranty claim issues here is deafening. Why is LB ignoring these posts while replying to posts regarding new products and potential new sales?


ABC, Always Be Closing. They are chasing the new dollar and forgetting the existing ones. Its a bummer.


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## BikeLust (Nov 5, 2004)

Perhaps warranty should be handled via email instead of in a public forum. Now if they exhausted all other forms of communication and have had no response, then yes, they should respond here or risk loss of current and future customers.


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## SpecialCshoe (Mar 29, 2016)

BikeLust said:


> Perhaps warranty should be handled via email instead of in a public forum. Now if they exhausted all other forms of communication and have had no response, then yes, they should respond here or risk loss of current and future customers.


That's exactly right! This does a lot of damage to a company for reasons that could be solely on the end user. However most semi intelligent people cant tell the difference. Sad


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Any opinions or info on the need/benefit of using nipple washers with any of these rims?


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Lone Rager said:


> Any opinions or info on the need/benefit of using nipple washers with any of these rims?


Not necessary


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

LB: On your road wheels.. how do you feel about them being used for primary wheelset for all my road riding (I live in flatlands btw, no descending, so minimal braking)? I mean the braking surface specifically since i'm trying to understand carbon wheels and rim brake situation. I know u r supposed to use pads for carbon rims, what do you recommend? And are all the non-disc rims equipped with TG resin? Also the 25mm width, is that designed to work with 25mm tires?


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## arthuar (Jun 5, 2007)

Justin MD said:


> Ok so after going back and forth a few times about the incident they approved my replacement. A couple more emails and on 4-13-16 I paid $8 (upgraded to DH rim) and $45ish for shipping.
> 
> The rim arrived on 5-16-16.
> 
> SO that's the deal. They handled it like professionals. Took a little longer to get the rim than I thought but not so long that is was a huge disappointment.


Unfortunately, I have not the same luck.
I purchased 29" rims one year ago, o little more, just broken during smal ride with the wife.
I asked vivian to replace my damged one ( rear one) and they answered I can buy new one with a 5 bucks discount..
It' doesnt sound so professional in my humble opinion as well.
Any ideas?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Lone Rager said:


> Any opinions or info on the need/benefit of using nipple washers with any of these rims?


Hello,

The nipple bed is thick and strong enough to not need washers. It should help reduce corrosion of alloy nipples a bit if you do use them, and it will also help build tension more easily. If you use a tiny amount of grease under the nipple heads, this also helps build tension more easily. Most riders concerned about riding in salty/wet conditions and don;t mind the extra weight build with brass nipples. Brass nipples add about 45 grams of rotational weight on an average mountain bike wheelset.

If you do decide to use washers, just be careful what size you use as the access holes may not be large enough to get your washers inside the rim. You may need to special order washers that are small enough or special order rims with enlarged access holes.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

zephxiii said:


> LB: On your road wheels.. how do you feel about them being used for primary wheelset for all my road riding (I live in flatlands btw, no descending, so minimal braking)? I mean the braking surface specifically since i'm trying to understand carbon wheels and rim brake situation. I know u r supposed to use pads for carbon rims, what do you recommend? And are all the non-disc rims equipped with TG resin? Also the 25mm width, is that designed to work with 25mm tires?


Hello,

We have carbon rim brake pads here, they are $10USD for a set of 4 pcs (complete bike). You must use brake pads intended for carbon rims, but they don't have to be ours. We don't have them listed on our site, but if you email us [email protected] we can send you an invoice directly for the rims and the brake pads. I've made a request to get the brake pads listed on the site.

We haven't made an official announcement yet, but we have dramatically improved our road rims ability to handle high temperatures, so it's no problem to use our rims as your primary road wheelset. The 25mm tubeless compatible road lineup is the way to go, and yes they will fit 25mm wide tires.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Has anyone tried our wide rims with the new Maxxis "Wide Trail" casing tires yet? 
Bicycle, Mountain, Minion DHF


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

arthuar said:


> Unfortunately, I have not the same luck.
> I purchased 29" rims one year ago, o little more, just broken during smal ride with the wife.
> I asked vivian to replace my damged one ( rear one) and they answered I can buy new one with a 5 bucks discount..
> It' doesnt sound so professional in my humble opinion as well.
> Any ideas?


How even is your spoke tension? How much do you weigh? How high were jumps, if any?


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## arthuar (Jun 5, 2007)

rsilvers said:


> How even is your spoke tension? How much do you weigh? How high were jumps, if any?


Spoke tension perfectly controlled and measured as well.
I am a 74 kg guy.
Never jumped, no good skills unfortunately.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

*Jersey Design*

We are working on some different Jersey design concepts and would love to hear your feedback on it. If you want, you can go to the link below and leave some comments there and also rank each jersey. Thank you!

https://99designs.ca/clothing-apparel-design/vote-y6cmxz


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Those are pretty nice looking.


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

General feedback, I won't even consider a non full zip jersey. Otherwise those look pretty good!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

zephxiii said:


> Those are pretty nice looking.


Thanks for the feedback, I think we could do 2 jersey's, maybe an enduro style (the last one shown) without zippers and loose fit, and the 2nd last one shown full zipper. Those seem to be the most popular votes so far.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Wow! They are all really great looking. Agree with full length zippers. On a road bike though, I prefer louder colors to increase conspicuity...also when on the mtb during hunting season.

Har! In going to the site and voting, I see the consensus is almost 180 degrees from my preferences. Just shows that the average, or most popular, isn't necessarily the best, otherwise McDonalds would be haute cuisine. Though in fairness, my tastes are influenced by and lean more toward road than mtb esthetics, perhaps more flamboyant rather than subdued.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Yes. Very nice looking jersey.



garcia said:


> General feedback, I won't even consider a non full zip jersey. Otherwise those look pretty good!


Same here. Gotta be full zip. Light colors, predominantly white would be a personal preference as well. Many of us of ride in 90 f plus temps this time of year.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Lone Rager said:


> Wow! They are all really great looking. Agree with full length zippers. On a road bike though, I prefer louder colors to increase conspicuity...also when on the mtb during hunting season.
> 
> Har! In going to the site and voting, I see the consensus is almost 180 degrees from my preferences. Just shows that the average, or most popular, isn't necessarily the best, otherwise McDonalds would be haute cuisine. Though in fairness, my tastes are influenced by and lean more toward road than mtb esthetics, perhaps more flamboyant rather than subdued.


Thank you for the feedback, it's not easy to decide! This is only 8 of the 50+ designs, and from there you can add color changes... Hopefully we can do a few different jerseys so there is a good selection for different disciplines and preferences.


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## Jave (Feb 22, 2011)

So I really want to buy a set of LB wide rims for my 27.5 "Enduro" bike. The only thing holding me back is I'm worried that they are too stiff and will make things feel too harsh. Opinions seem to be divided on this subject from what I've read. Some say carbon wheels are too stiff and make the ride quite harsh and causes you to "bounce around" too much in very technical sections while others say they can't tell much difference from their aluminum rims (except increased acceleration and lighter weight) in terms of harshness.

Can anyone comment on them feeling much harsher than aluminum rims? I weigh 170lbs/77kg and ride quite aggressively through very technical terrain on the north shore of Vancouver. I don't do big drops but I smash through rock/root gardens at high speed. 

Would going with the 'All Mountain' version as opposed to the 'Heavy Duty' version provide a bit more flex to make them less harsh? Which model LB rims would feel the least harsh while still holding up to the type of riding I do?


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## j0hn (May 27, 2011)

I'm riding the 31.6/38mm rims. My bike is full rigid and I don't notice much difference from my previous aluminum rims. In fact the ride is better because I'm running slightly lower pressure than before. This is only one person's opinion, but I've never understood the stiffer / harsher comments. If you've got suspension, I feel like differences in rim stiffness are going to be insignificant.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Jave said:


> So I really want to buy a set of LB wide rims for my "Enduro" bike. The only thing holding me back is I'm worried that they are too stiff and will make things feel too harsh. Opinions seem to be divided on this subject from what I've read. Some say carbon wheels are too stiff and make the ride quite harsh and causes you to "bounce around" too much in very technical sections while others say they can't tell much difference from their aluminum rims (except increased acceleration and lighter weight) in terms of harshness.
> 
> Can anyone comment on them feeling much harsher than aluminum rims? I weigh 170lbs/77kg and ride quite aggressively through very technical terrain on the north shore of Vancouver. I don't do big drops but I smash through rock/root gardens at high speed.
> 
> Would going with the 'All Mountain' version as opposed to the 'Heavy Duty' version provide a bit more flex to make them less harsh? Which model LB rims would feel the least harsh while still holding up to the type of riding I do?


Harsh? No way. Connected? Absolutely. The lateral rigidity they offer is incredible. It's like your riding on a rail and your tire performance will be more of your focus. When I made the transition, harshness was not perceived in the least on a full suspension bike. I'm full carbon (wheels, frame, bars). Tune your suspension to suit. I ride mostly sharp rocky chunk and the entire bike feels connected with no unwanted flex. You don't realize how much flex occurs until you cancel it out and the wheels were a huge step in doing that.


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## BikeLust (Nov 5, 2004)

One more in favor of carbon rims here. You will notice the lateral stiffness when cornering, but if your suspension is set up properly, harshness won't exist. Keep in mind you can likely run lower pressures which if anything will make your ride less harsh. That said, if rock gardens are your thing, I would go with heavy duty rear and AM front. The extra layer can only be a good thing if you case a jump or smack your rear wheel on that sharp rock that you lofted the front wheel over. I've had my Chili on Fromme with the 26'r enduro rims without any issues. Numerous rock strikes from the side (roll over) which have dinged up the finish, but no issues what so ever.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

Jave said:


> So I really want to buy a set of LB wide rims for my 27.5 "Enduro" bike. The only thing holding me back is I'm worried that they are too stiff and will make things feel too harsh. Opinions seem to be divided on this subject from what I've read. Some say carbon wheels are too stiff and make the ride quite harsh and causes you to "bounce around" too much in very technical sections while others say they can't tell much difference from their aluminum rims (except increased acceleration and lighter weight) in terms of harshness.
> 
> Can anyone comment on them feeling much harsher than aluminum rims? I weigh 170lbs/77kg and ride quite aggressively through very technical terrain on the north shore of Vancouver. I don't do big drops but I smash through rock/root gardens at high speed.
> 
> Would going with the 'All Mountain' version as opposed to the 'Heavy Duty' version provide a bit more flex to make them less harsh? Which model LB rims would feel the least harsh while still holding up to the type of riding I do?


For the 35 outter / 30 inner, I would definitely get the heavy duty option on at least the rear. If you can afford the newer offset models, I would go for that since the rim bead is 3mm thick instead of 2.5mm. None of this has anything to do with retaining some vertical compliance, it has to do with not smashing a divot into your rim on a rock or something.

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## dustyyoungblood (Jul 6, 2016)

Comparing to LB, has any vetted out the other Alibaba CF rim suppliers?

SoarRocs: Xiamen SoarRocs Carbon Fiber Products Co., Ltd. - Carbon rims,Carbon wheelset
X bike: Company Overview - X-Bike Equipment Co., Ltd.
Carbonal: Company Overview - Xiamen Carbonal Composite Technology Co., Ltd.
Dengfu: Company Overview - Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited
Yuan'an: Xiamen Yuan'an Composit Technology Co., Ltd. - carbon wheels,carbon rims


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I'm using CB. Good communication and no problems with the product. Good pricing.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Jave said:


> So I really want to buy a set of LB wide rims for my 27.5 "Enduro" bike. The only thing holding me back is I'm worried that they are too stiff and will make things feel too harsh. Opinions seem to be divided on this subject from what I've read. Some say carbon wheels are too stiff and make the ride quite harsh and causes you to "bounce around" too much in very technical sections while others say they can't tell much difference from their aluminum rims (except increased acceleration and lighter weight) in terms of harshness.
> 
> Can anyone comment on them feeling much harsher than aluminum rims? I weigh 170lbs/77kg and ride quite aggressively through very technical terrain on the north shore of Vancouver. I don't do big drops but I smash through rock/root gardens at high speed.
> 
> Would going with the 'All Mountain' version as opposed to the 'Heavy Duty' version provide a bit more flex to make them less harsh? Which model LB rims would feel the least harsh while still holding up to the type of riding I do?


Hi Jave,

The wider and deeper you go, the stiffer the rims will be. Also, if you get a reinforced version, the sidewalls are quite a bit thicker which also adds to the stiffness.

If you are okay with the width, I think the AM724's would be a safe bet. They are not super tall or wide so they will feel more sturdy and faster than your alloy rims because they are carbon, but they won't be overly stiff. These have 3mm thick hookless beads and a modern profile so you won't need a reinforced version based on your description unless you visit the bike parks frequently and need them to handle high pressure.

The main thing you want to watch out for (with any carbon rim) is to keep reasonable tire pressure. You don't want to go so low that you are bottoming out often, and not so high that you are voiding the advantage of a modern relatively wide rim.

Riding fast through rough terrain is where advanced riders find a huge advantage in a good carbon rim. The bike will track better, be more stable and predictable.

AM724 asymmetric rim profile carbon 650b mountain bike rims Light-Bicycle


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## Jave (Feb 22, 2011)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Jave,
> 
> The wider and deeper you go, the stiffer the rims will be. Also, if you get a reinforced version, the sidewalls are quite a bit thicker which also adds to the stiffness.
> 
> ...


Sounds perfect! I'm looking to get a full wheelset, not just the rims but I don't see the AM724 as an option under wheelsets? Can you build one for me? If so, how do I order it on your website?


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

Replaced my DT wheels dt240/ex471 rims with LB asymmetric EN928 hoops and onyx hubs.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I'm on the 38mm external, 31.6mm internal rims. Probably have 750 miles on them. Fantastic upgrade. Super stiff laterally. They don't get knocked out of the line. I recently installed the Morsa 2.3's on them front and back. Incredible combination for up and down. I have taken them to Highland in NH for lift served, and they were amazing. When I first got my LB rims built up, they were different. My older wheels were softer and deformed more. I had to adjust my suspension settings a bit and I lowered my tire pressure. Once you get them dialed in, you will be amazed at the poise they have.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

LB has some of their rims available in asymmetric rim profiles and non-asymmetric. I am looking at the 24mm inner width 650b rims, and they have that size available in asymmetric and non-asymmetric. The cost difference is pretty substantial so I am just wondering what the benefits are. $320 for a pair vs. $500, that's 35%.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The asymmetric design equalizes spoke tension on the wheels. Theoretically I suppose this builds a stronger wheel because you don't have spokes at such a high tension that they are less susceptible to breaking. But you won't notice a difference. I have the 38mm 650b rims, not asymmetric and I notice how much stiffer they are than my old aluminum rims. If they were changed for the asymmetric version, I bet I wouldn't notice.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Prophet Julio said:


> The asymmetric design equalizes spoke tension on the wheels. Theoretically I suppose this builds a stronger wheel because you don't have spokes at such a high tension that they are less susceptible to breaking. But you won't notice a difference. I have the 38mm 650b rims, not asymmetric and I notice how much stiffer they are than my old aluminum rims. If they were changed for the asymmetric version, I bet I wouldn't notice.


You're probably right about the ride quality. I will say though, I'm not sure if it was the equal tension or what, but they were some of the easiest wheels to lace up I've ever built. They also seem to want to stay true on their own, Ive checked them a couple times without having to touch a spoke. I'll definitely be going with the assym on my next wheelset too, they've felt bulletproof.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The wheels I had built up with the LB 38mm rims have been perfect since built. They are still true and the tension on all spokes is good. I remember adjusting a couple of spokes for tension after a couple of rides, but the wheels were still perfectly true. No changes since. Nice rims. I can't vouch for their wheel building as I had mine done locally by a well regarded wheel guru.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Yeah, I'm pretty impressed with them so far for the price. I went with the 28/34 rims, but I'm hoping they will offer the assym in a wider version at some point. I have a couple friends with the 38 standard, and they've been really happy with them too. One had them built by LB, and he hasnt had any issues that I'm aware of. Nice to have a local builder you trust though, makes it much easier if there are any hiccups, or you want to swap hubs down the road.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

thanks for the replies. I just bought a new set of Hadley's for a Spitfire I bought. Think I will go with the LB non-assym 24mm inner width rim. Should be a perfect compliment to my 27.5mm inner width FR570's on my DH bike.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

well, nevermind. I emailed and they said the non-asymm version with 50g of material added won't be strong enough for all mountain/enduro type riding for a 185lb rider. they said i need to go with at least the 28mm inner asymmetric rim which is substantially more expensive. i was thinking i could upgrade to carbon rims for ~$330 versus ~$200 for aluminum. but with the asymmetric rims I'd be spending ~$570 with shipping. still not affordable enough for me to try them.


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

30mm internal too wide for you? The original i30 non-asym rims are great, and only like $10 more than the i24.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

csermonet said:


> well, nevermind. I emailed and they said the non-asymm version with 50g of material added won't be strong enough for all mountain/enduro type riding for a 185lb rider. they said i need to go with at least the 28mm inner asymmetric rim which is substantially more expensive. i was thinking i could upgrade to carbon rims for ~$330 versus ~$200 for aluminum. but with the asymmetric rims I'd be spending ~$570 with shipping. still not affordable enough for me to try them.


Uh what? Both of those rims have 3mm thick beads and the non-asym 27.5 24mm inner width rim says:
"specifically for down hill bike, AM & XC racing, tubeless compatible".

Mind you, if you need a crash replacement of the asym (cracked after 1 year but before 2 years) the 25% discount will bring the Asym rim to $195 plus $45 for shipping so you're still ahead with the non-asym if you simply pay full price for a replacement.

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## j0hn (May 27, 2011)

Can we use the word "symmetric" to describe the rims that are not not-symmetric? Non-asymmetric is a double negative, and sounds like nails on a chalkboard to my ear. Whew. Really, I'm not a jerk, but had to get that out of my system.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

Ha. It does sound weird now that you mention it. I used "asym" as a feature that one model has and one does not. 

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Get the symmetric 38mm / 31.6mm. They are not asymmetrically drilled. Hahahaha!!

But they are less expensive and great for AM / Enduro.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

So you guys think the original symmetrical i24mm with 50g added carbon would be durable enough for a 185lb geared up rider on all mountain/enduro type riding? LB told me they couldn't recommend that, and that they wouldn't honor the warranty. As far as inner width goes, my DH wheels are 27.5mm inner and I'm not trying to go above that. I'm also trying to wider than my previous trail bike wheels which were EX500's at 21mm. AFAIK, LB makes 3 rims that would meet my criteria for inner width. i24 symmetrical($163), i24 asymmetrical($249), and i28 asymmetrical($259). Like I said, they told me they can't recommend the i24 symmetrical RM650BC02 rim for me, and that they would not honor the warranty. The other two that they supposedly would recommend and honor the warranty, are out of my price range. It's not necessarily that they won't honor the warranty if I bust one, I'm used to voiding the warranty on many of my purchases. It's just the fact that they can't recommend it. I don't want to get them and have one break on me, especially when I know that cheaper Oozy 295's or EX471's won't.

You guys have way more knowledge and experience than I do with these rims, and probably trail bike set-up in general. So i'll provide the link to the specific LB rims I was looking at, and you guys can tell me if you think they are okay for a 185lb all mountain rider.

carbon mountain bike 650b rim mtb 27.5 rim Light-Bicycle

Those are them, and keep in mind I was adding 50g of extra carbon to each rim for added strength and durability.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm anti non asymmetric.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

I emailed them at the same time, further trying to clarify on the subject. and they replied and explicitly said they don't recommend it for me. I even said in the email, how it says in the description for the rim on their website that its for downhill, am, xc, etc. and they said "we haven't say the RM650BC02 is suitable for downhill riding on our website", even though it clearly states in the bottom of the description "MTB 27.5″ rim specially for down hill bike, AM & XC racing,tubeless-compatible". they further stated in their email "if you take all mountain riding softly, then go with the RM650BC02 heavy version."


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

That does seem odd, considering their description and the listed max weight limit. If they won't recommend or warranty it though, I wouldn't take the chance. They do look to be more consistent with their xc rims too, maybe the description is wrong? I wonder if the 20 mm depth has anything to do with it, it looks to be their shallowest rim in that regard.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I am curious as to your reasons for not going with a wider rim. I run 2.3's on my 31.6mm internal width rims and they perform great. The added sidewall stability is noticeable, and there is no penalty that I can discern. Just curious.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

Prophet Julio said:


> I am curious as to your reasons for not going with a wider rim. I run 2.3's on my 31.6mm internal width rims and they perform great. The added sidewall stability is noticeable, and there is no penalty that I can discern. Just curious.


I just think rim width is a personal preference. I have been running pretty narrow rims, 21mm EX500's on the trail bike and 23mm Mavic 823. I have been wanting to go wider, but not drastically wider. The DT FR570 is pretty much the best aluminum DH rim on the market right now, and has the best strength to weight to width ratio. And they are 27.5mm wide. I just rebuilt my DH rims with these. The only enduro rim in the same league is the DT EX471, which Aaron Gwin used to run on his Demo in the World Cups, and they are only 25mm wide. I personally think this super wide thing is a bit of a fad. For instance Aaron Gwins use of the 25mm inner width EX471 rims, even choosing them when he had the option of running the slightly wider 27.5mm inner width FR570. And his new wheel sponsor, e13, only has rims with 27mm and 28mm inner width. Now 31.6 isn't so wide that I would consider it a "fad" rim width, I think it's well within the personal preference range. I fully think rim width is personal preference, and that can range all the way from 20mm to 35mm. But I think the industry is pushing wider is better, not pick what works best for you. And because of this some rim manufacturers aren't even producing what I consider normal width rims. For my trail bike rims, I definitely don't want them to be any wider than my DH rims, so that already off the bat limits me to no wider than 27.5 or 28mm. Just a personal requirement/preference.


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

I understand it's personal preference. I'm happy with my i30s, and have no desire to go wider (or narrower) because I like the way these ride. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to buy some i28 rims if they met all the rest of my criteria. 

Honestly, I don't believe any regular rider is going to notice a difference in 2mm of rim width.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

amish_matt said:


> I understand it's personal preference. I'm happy with my i30s, and have no desire to go wider (or narrower) because I like the way these ride. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to buy some i28 rims if they met all the rest of my criteria.
> 
> Honestly, I don't believe any regular rider is going to notice a difference in 2mm of rim width.


Yes I agree, I would be willing to with the 28mm wide rims. But the only ones they recommend and will honor the warranty are the asymmetrical ones, which are out of my price range. They make a 24mm asymm rim as well, but won't recommend or honor the warranty on that one either. In fact it appears they won't recommend any rim for a 185lb all mountain/enduro rider until it gets up to the 28mm asymmetrical rim.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

amish_matt said:


> I understand it's personal preference. I'm happy with my i30s, and have no desire to go wider (or narrower) because I like the way these ride. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to buy some i28 rims if they met all the rest of my criteria.
> 
> Honestly, I don't believe any regular rider is going to notice a difference in 2mm of rim width.


I've had 2 seasons on 30mm id rims. Now I find I want to use some of the wider 29 tires for a front. A Fat B Nimble 29 x 3 is actually only a 2.7" tire and fits fine on my SID(or Reba) fork. Another new tire is the WTB Ranger 29 x 3. It may only be a 2.8.
A 40mm id rim would be recommended for these and I'd like one, but my 30mm id works ok for the FBN now. A 28mm id rim wouldn't be better. I wouldn't choose that if building today.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I'm only recommending the 38 / 31.6 because it is designed for the use you want and it is much less than the asymmetric option. I totally agree with amish_matt that you really won't notice the difference in width from a 27.5mm internal to a 31.6mm internal. 5mm is less than a 1/4".


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I went from custom built EX500's straight to the 38/31.6 LB. I'm not getting the aversion to going with a proven hoop capable of handling what ever you throw at it and enjoying the benefit of better tire performance. While waiting for mine to arrive, I was a bit aprehensive about the width. Now that I've been running them since last September, I'd likely never go back towards the skinny. To each his own, I 'spose.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

well like i've said, my aversion to upgrading to the LB carbon rims is the only ones the recommend are the asymmetrical versions which are far too out of my price range. You don't have to understand my aversion to running 31.6 inner width rims, it's personal preference. it's like you saying you like fat bikes, i'm not going to hold it against you, like you said to each his own. I prefer to stay between 24mm and 28mm inner width on my trail bike rims. the only thing holding me back is the price


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Get the 31.6 mm internal and pretend they are thinner. Put a fake sticker on it. You will not regret it.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

csermonet said:


> it's like you saying you like fat bikes, i'm not going to hold it against you,


I can assure you, I'll never say I like Fat Bikes. Ever. You can include eBikes in that, as well. :lol:


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Some pics of the rims you don't want (for some unknown unknown).


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Kinda agree with everyone else, if you don't want to pay the added premium, the standard 31/38 are pretty kickass rims. If you are really riding aggressive enduro type trails, I'd rather have the piece of mind over the grams saved any day. The weight of those RM650BC02 rims, combined with the depth and width, definitley sound more like XC rims anyway. That said, I went LB because of their track record over the years, and friends experiences. However, there are a bunch of other chi carbon rim makers that will sell you what you want without asking questions.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

VitaliT said:


> Replaced my DT wheels dt240/ex471 rims with LB asymmetric EN928 hoops and onyx hubs.


I have the same combo on my sb6c..how do you like the LB vs the ex471?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

csermonet said:


> well like i've said, my aversion to upgrading to the LB carbon rims is the only ones the recommend are the asymmetrical versions which are far too out of my price range. You don't have to understand my aversion to running 31.6 inner width rims, it's personal preference. it's like you saying you like fat bikes, i'm not going to hold it against you, like you said to each his own. I prefer to stay between 24mm and 28mm inner width on my trail bike rims. the only thing holding me back is the price


Usually this ununderstandable for us aversion comes from no actual ride experience to back it up. As has been mentioned, once you get some trail time on the right rounded profile tires at the right low pressure on wide rims things can change forever. This we could understand because it fits our own experiences. So we are trying to save you the wasted time and money with recommendations based on real trail time. But we could understand going to a WT Maxxis tire on the 31.6 for more downhill speeds with rocky terrain. Maybe a DHR II WT. Maxxis says--"Wide trail (WT) casing is optimized for 35mm inner width rims." So you maybe should even get a wider front. No way that tire will fit and perform on a 28.


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## kozmokr (May 31, 2011)

Debating between 29C07 and AM928 for my process 111. I ride trails with small drops, some rock gardens and technical climbs. I ride fast but not too aggressive.
What would you guys recommend between the two rims? And should i opt for the enduro version?

Thanks!


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

yeti575inCA said:


> I have the same combo on my sb6c..how do you like the LB vs the ex471?


 Updated pics. 
I had only three ride on those wheels about 150km. Weight is not a question because of onyx hubs. Wheels torsional stiffness is improved control is much sharper and Schwalbe tires in 2.35 and Conti. TK 2.4 look gigantic. One person asked if it is 29+

Sorry I am noob in biking jargon on English.
I'm so impressed in those hoops so I considering to get myself AM733 wheelset on same hubs to convert my carbine 29c to the 27+


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I'd go for the AN928 between the two. You should also consider the 29C14. You would not need the heavy duty version of either the 29C14 or the AM928. The 29C07 is an old design. Thinner sidewall bead interface.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

The 29C14 also gives you more id. This would be better.


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## kozmokr (May 31, 2011)

Thanks Julio and eb1888. What do you mean by more id?

Is there any advantage to the wider rim, given that the same tire is being used and the fact that the wider rim is heavier?

Thanks again.


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

ID = inner diameter. I think the reinforced 30/24 rims should be fine, i dont see why the AM928 would be much stronger at the same weight. I prefer them because they are wider though.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

kozmokr said:


> Thanks Julio and eb1888. What do you mean by more id?
> 
> Is there any advantage to the wider rim, given that the same tire is being used and the fact that the wider rim is heavier?


Well you're not restricted to just one tire, just like you're getting a new wheelset to improve performance.
I now have a 2.7" Fat B Nimble front tire with a regular SID fork(Reba is the same clearance). But even with my round profile XR! 2.2 Team Bontrager rear the 31.6mm id rim makes a major difference. Traction, no foldover washouts, sidewall support and more cushion from lower psi are all positive benefits that more than outweigh a few grams. 
Carbon rims aren't $40. Don't waste your money on skinny pizza cutter rims you'll be replacing before you know it. Anyone who says 24 is fine has zero time on wide rims. Zero time means zero value.Their recommendation would change with just one ride.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

I didn't read all the replies, but I'm going to go with DT EX471's. Shame, cause I do want to try out some carbon rims. Alas, I will be getting some at a later date. I assume that the price can only drop, and you will soon be able to get a quality, rated for aggressive riding carbon rim for the same price as a aluminum rim. Who knows when that will be though. Maybe next tax return season I'll treat myself to a carbon rim re-lace


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Do you get anything from carbon at the same performance and price level as aluminum? Not as far as I'm aware.
So if you want to wait, fine, but the drop has already been immense. I wouldn't guess it could drop more than a single-digit percentage from now on unless something big happens.


Von meinem iPhone gesendet.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

Radical_53 said:


> Do you get anything from carbon at the same performance and price level as aluminum? Not as far as I'm aware.
> So if you want to wait, fine, but the drop has already been immense. I wouldn't guess it could drop more than a single-digit percentage from now on unless something big happens.
> 
> Von meinem iPhone gesendet.


Yeah, that's why I said "Who knows when that will be though. Maybe next tax return season I'll treat myself to a carbon rim re-lace". For the level of performance I need, the price of entry in carbon, even from cheap China manufacturer direct, is just too high for me to afford right now when I have other components to buy as well on this new build. Maybe if I get a dece tax return, and don't have any unexpected expenses, I'll be able to get some. But right now, for $100 a rim, I just can't beat the performance for price.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

You miss the package price.
Right now you'd get two rims at 80-100$ each, spokes & nipples (depends, 50-200$?) and possibly pay a guy to build wheels of it.
Then, next year, you'd buy all that again... Spokes and labor will be gone, you may get some money for the old rims.
Then, you'd still need to pay the premium for carbon.
If you get them now, you wouldn't only save money, but also gain the advantages a year earlier 


Von meinem iPhone gesendet.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

Yeah but after close to a year of use my aluminum rims will be coming to the end of their service life anyway. Trust me, I want to get carbon rims. But i'd also like to upgrade my dropper from a KS eTen to something nicer, and I have had good luck with my WTB High Tail on my DH bike so I want to get one of those as well, and upgrade my cranks from the very base level Race Face Ride's to something like e13 TRS+. I also need to get proper tires, the bike came with singly ply Ardent's. I need at least Exo sidewall, probably a DHR2 or High Roller 2. If i didn't want to get all of that stuff right now, I would pay the premium for carbon. But right now there are too many other things. As you know, your bike is never really "done" lol. I will get carbon rims, just a matter of time.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Jave said:


> Sounds perfect! I'm looking to get a full wheelset, not just the rims but I don't see the AM724 as an option under wheelsets? Can you build one for me? If so, how do I order it on your website?


Sorry for the delayed reply! The page is made but it's not live on the site yet, just waiting on approval. It should be done within the week. In the meantime you can e-mail [email protected] or you can also use the wheelset order form located here instead of e-mailing:
custom mountain wheels Light-Bicycle


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Erock503 said:


> You're probably right about the ride quality. I will say though, I'm not sure if it was the equal tension or what, but they were some of the easiest wheels to lace up I've ever built. They also seem to want to stay true on their own, Ive checked them a couple times without having to touch a spoke. I'll definitely be going with the assym on my next wheelset too, they've felt bulletproof.


The 38's are so stiff and deep that they should stay true more easily. Shallower rims benefit from the asymmetric profile more as shallow rims have more lateral flex. More even spoke tension left to right will help keep the wheel truer for longer and the nipples won't loosen off as easily. The AM724 has an improved profile and a significantly different layup than the older RM650BC02. It will have better impact resistance and will be quite a bit stiffer due to the layup pattern coupled with being 4mm deeper. The Happy medium would be using the AM724 in the rear if the increased cost is concerning.

Perhaps these are small details, but it should be noted that the asymmetrical rims are kept in stock so they can ship within a couple of days, PayPal fees are waived for these orders, and the crash replacement policy is improved on these rims.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Erock503 said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty impressed with them so far for the price. I went with the 28/34 rims, but I'm hoping they will offer the assym in a wider version at some point. I have a couple friends with the 38 standard, and they've been really happy with them too. One had them built by LB, and he hasnt had any issues that I'm aware of. Nice to have a local builder you trust though, makes it much easier if there are any hiccups, or you want to swap hubs down the road.


We've got a 40mm wide asymmetric rim 
EN733 asymmetric rim profile carbon 27.5 inch carbon rims mtb Light-Bicycle


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

csermonet said:


> I emailed them at the same time, further trying to clarify on the subject. and they replied and explicitly said they don't recommend it for me. I even said in the email, how it says in the description for the rim on their website that its for downhill, am, xc, etc. and they said "we haven't say the RM650BC02 is suitable for downhill riding on our website", even though it clearly states in the bottom of the description "MTB 27.5″ rim specially for down hill bike, AM & XC racing,tubeless-compatible". they further stated in their email "if you take all mountain riding softly, then go with the RM650BC02 heavy version."


I'm sorry for the frustration on this, I've met with the team here and we'll work on a solution. I think we will try to make a replacement mold for the RM650BC02 at a similar width but with improved design features and strength. We'll design it with strength and a good price point in mind. I'll have the downhill description removed from the current mold, not sure why that is on there


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Regarding this rim: AM724 asymmetric rim profile carbon 650b mountain bike rims Light-Bicycle

It is suitable for all mountain riding and can handle hard riding if you are a responsible rider. If you are not destroying your alloy rims regularly than you should have not problem with these. I think it's important to remember that "warranty" doesn't mean if you manage to break a product while riding it is automatically covered. Warranty is intended for manufacturing defects.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

light bicycle said:


> We've got a 40mm wide asymmetric rim
> EN733 asymmetric rim profile carbon 27.5 inch carbon rims mtb Light-Bicycle


When riders talk about rim width it's the internal width that impacts on the tire performance. This rim is only 33.6mm internal width. Plus tires of 2.8" to 3.0" and more are available today in 27.5 and 29 sizes. Rims with 40-45mm internal rim width are what the tire manufacturers are recommending and what the oem bikes are coming with. Where are your 40mm and 45mm asym rims for these tires? I'd prefer rims not taller than 25mm for these sizes.
There is a carbon asym rim of 39mm id available on the market now for $195.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

eb1888 said:


> When riders talk about rim width it's the internal width that impacts on the tire performance. This rim is only 33.6mm internal width. Plus tires of 2.8" to 3.0" and more are available today in 27.5 and 29 sizes. Rims with 40-45mm internal rim width are what the tire manufacturers are recommending and what the oem bikes are coming with. Where are your 40mm and 45mm asym rims for these tires? I'd prefer rims not taller than 25mm for these sizes.
> There is a carbon asym rim of 39mm id available on the market now for $195.


Hello,

The 40mm rim with 33.6mm internal width works just fine with plus tires, and they also work well for modern wide-rimmed compatible tires like the line Maxxis has released (Wide Trail). This keeps the bike versatile without the need to change wheels. For riders preferring a very wide rim for plus to bring it a bit closer to the fatbike end of the spectrum, we have a 45mm internal width rim and it's available in 29" and 650b. carbon mountain bike rim-mountain bike rim,mountain rims,mtb rim,mtb rims,carbon mtb rim Light-Bicycle

The plus rims we have can easily be drilled with spoke holes offset to one side to create more even spoke tension and create the asymmetrical effect. These are so wide that the profile does not really need an offset shape to accomplish the effect.

There is a gap in the lineup with room for a 38-40mm internal width perhaps in the future we'll make something here, but for now we've got a 33.6 and a 45 inner for 650 and a 31.6 and a 45 inner for 29".


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## palo_lude (Oct 22, 2015)

Hi LB,
I am currently looking for two pairs of wheels for two all mountain bikes. One for my girlfriend and one for me. Both bikes are new modern 150mm travel machines which will be used for easy trail riding. From time to time we plan to do some easier downhills in bike parks, some light jumping. as the time will go and once we improve our skills we might use the bikes in more demanding terrain. We will be using bikes for all day trips in the Alps, so weight is important as well. Our riding weight is around 55kg and 80kg for my girlfriend and me respectively. My girlfriend usually rides on a safe side, I would say she is never aggressive on trails, myself I like to let my suspension do the work in rock gardens but I always keep some safety margin. We are planning to ride probably some nobby nics 2,35, trail kings 2.4 or similar Maxxis 2.3-2.4 tires for our trail riding. We might use something heavier with more meat and protection for bike park runs.
We were looking at AM724, AM728 and EN728 rims but we were just curious what would you and folks here with experience suggest...
Any help is always appreciated.
Which rims would you guys suggest for us?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

palo_lude said:


> Hi LB,
> I am currently looking for two pairs of wheels for two all mountain bikes. One for my girlfriend and one for me. Both bikes are new modern 150mm travel machines which will be used for easy trail riding. From time to time we plan to do some easier downhills in bike parks, some light jumping. as the time will go and once we improve our skills we might use the bikes in more demanding terrain. We will be using bikes for all day trips in the Alps, so weight is important as well. Our riding weight is around 55kg and 80kg for my girlfriend and me respectively. My girlfriend usually rides on a safe side, I would say she is never aggressive on trails, myself I like to let my suspension do the work in rock gardens but I always keep some safety margin. We are planning to ride probably some nobby nics 2,35, trail kings 2.4 or similar Maxxis 2.3-2.4 tires for our trail riding. We might use something heavier with more meat and protection for bike park runs.
> We were looking at AM724, AM728 and EN728 rims but we were just curious what would you and folks here with experience suggest...
> Any help is always appreciated.
> Which rims would you guys suggest for us?


I think you would be happier on the AM728's as the depth will give you good stiffness and stability through rock gardens. The extra width will give you a great profile for the tires you anticipate running and they will be hard to burp. If you run tires with thicker casing when at bike parks you should be able to get away with the AM version as they are still quite strong.

Your girlfriend might feel that the 728's are too stiff and she would appreciate the weight savings of the AM724's. A 24mm internal width will allow her to run narrower tires for when conditions are good and she really wants to lighten up the bike for certain epic rides, and you can still easily run 2.4" trail tires with a 24mm inner. These will be easier to burp than the wider rims at lower pressure but it doesn't sound like she is overly aggressive so I wouldn't worry about that. I hope this helps!

- LB


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## palo_lude (Oct 22, 2015)

Thanks LB,
this does help a lot in fact. Especially appreciate explanation on wheel stiffness as I would forget about this.
One more question. Is it OK to use plastic tire levers with your carbon rims?
We can put tire on wheel without levers, but for taking tire off the rim, we like a little help of a lever.


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## MK_ (Nov 15, 2004)

I have a quick question regarding standard nipple drilling vs internal. Last set of LB wheels I've built up with internal nipples due to the presumed increased durability. The wheels have held up fine. I am about to build a new set; still undecided on the rim as like most I have a hard time swallowing the price up-charge on the asymmetric rim, and I'm undecided on whether to spec internal or standard nipple drilling.

The advantage of standard drilling is the truing aspect, although my last set I've built up stayed dead true for the life of the wheels. What is LB's take on this? Do you see any failures of spokes pulling through the rim when drilled standard?

Thanks.

_MK


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

palo_lude said:


> Thanks LB,
> this does help a lot in fact. Especially appreciate explanation on wheel stiffness as I would forget about this.
> One more question. Is it OK to use plastic tire levers with your carbon rims?
> We can put tire on wheel without levers, but for taking tire off the rim, we like a little help of a lever.


Hello again, Plastic tire levers are no problem to use on the rims.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

MK_ said:


> I have a quick question regarding standard nipple drilling vs internal. Last set of LB wheels I've built up with internal nipples due to the presumed increased durability. The wheels have held up fine. I am about to build a new set; still undecided on the rim as like most I have a hard time swallowing the price up-charge on the asymmetric rim, and I'm undecided on whether to spec internal or standard nipple drilling.
> 
> The advantage of standard drilling is the truing aspect, although my last set I've built up stayed dead true for the life of the wheels. What is LB's take on this? Do you see any failures of spokes pulling through the rim when drilled standard?
> 
> ...


We build up our nipple beds to take more than 400 kg/f without the nipples pulling through. Normal spoke tension on the high tension side of the wheel is about 130kg/f on a built wheel so 400+ is pretty high. On our testing machine, the spokes usually snap long before the nipple could ever pull through the rim. Based on this, I see more benefit on going with regular nipples as it makes servicing easier. It is incredibly rare to have the nipples pull through.


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## MK_ (Nov 15, 2004)

Thx.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

I appreciate that light bicycle is on here to provide useful facts and feedback. 

My personal experience: A few years ago, after letting a few others be the first Guinea pigs, I took the leap of faith and bought some of the original Light Bicycle hookless i22mm rims. I've probably got around 5000 mi of pretty good riding on them. They're scratched up and look a little worse for wear, but they ride as good as the day I got them. The only thing I don't like about them is that when setting them up tubeless, the tire falls off the bead when all the air is let out. I've managed to work around the issue, but it is annoying. But I've never had a tire burp since I've owned them, so they must fit tight enough.


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

If LB is answering questions I'll fire off a few.

Why is it almost impossible to mount tires to the two sets of LB rims (four in total) I have? 
(2) External width 33mm 26" HD layup and (2) 30mm 29" HD layup both hookless. 

Folding bead tires from Maxxis, Specialized and Schwalbe have all been a chore and have had to use a RubberMaid Brute garbage can to get leverage to mount them.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

PUNKY said:


> If LB is answering questions I'll fire off a few.
> 
> Why is it almost impossible to mount tires to the two sets of LB rims (four in total) I have?
> (2) External width 33mm 26" HD layup and (2) 30mm 29" HD layup both hookless.
> ...


Have you tried pushing as much of the bead as possible into the center channel of the rim? The little bit of extra slack produced allows you to get the last bit of the tire over the rim edge.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

SoCal-Rider said:


> I appreciate that light bicycle is on here to provide useful facts and feedback.
> 
> My personal experience: A few years ago, after letting a few others be the first Guinea pigs, I took the leap of faith and bought some of the original Light Bicycle hookless i22mm rims. I've probably got around 5000 mi of pretty good riding on them. They're scratched up and look a little worse for wear, but they ride as good as the day I got them. The only thing I don't like about them is that when setting them up tubeless, the tire falls off the bead when all the air is let out. I've managed to work around the issue, but it is annoying. But I've never had a tire burp since I've owned them, so they must fit tight enough.


Which rims are these SoCal-Rider?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

PUNKY said:


> If LB is answering questions I'll fire off a few.
> 
> Why is it almost impossible to mount tires to the two sets of LB rims (four in total) I have?
> (2) External width 33mm 26" HD layup and (2) 30mm 29" HD layup both hookless.
> ...


How old is your 26" rim? We made new top plates for that mold a while back to lower the center channel slightly, and we also lowered the hookless lips to increase impact resistance. It is possible you have one of the rims before this revision.

Which 29x30 do you have, is it the 29C19 or is it the 29C02 (no longer on the website?). I can't recall tire setup issues with either of these ones. If the tires are fitting tight, you need to make sure you are using a very thin tubeless tape. Gorilla tape is quite thick for example and make the tires fit too tight. It is shocking how much difference that bit of extra thickness makes. You can also run the tubeless tape in the center channel only, no need to cover full width if you use good quality thin tubeless tape. If you must use 2 layers to get enough strength, overlap them LEFT/RIGHT leaving about 2mm gap between the layers so that the edges are feathered out. This will help keep the tire from folding over the tape when you unmount tires. Kwarwick also had some good advice, you have to make sure to keep the bead in the very center so it has as much slack as possible. If you slosh around your tubeless sealant so it coats the tape or wet the tire beads with a tire fitting fluid, maybe that would help also.

The HD layup does not effect tire fitting at all. The extra material is added inside the rim and the mold is the same as the light version, so all of the outer dimensions are exactly the same.

Maxxis and Specialized tubeless tires are great and should not be the problem if they are in good shape. Schwalbe and Continental tires and some others have more inconsistent beads for use on hookless rims.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

light bicycle said:


> Which rims are these SoCal-Rider?


I don't know if they even had a model # back then. There was only one Light Bicycle 29er hookless rim to choose from back then.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

SoCal-Rider said:


> I don't know if they even had a model # back then. There was only one Light Bicycle 29er hookless rim to choose from back then.


Yes those were amongst the first 29" carbon mtb rims made anywhere. Back then they didn't have a bead seat, it was just flat. You can make a false bead seat bump with tape which sounds like what you are doing currently.


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

light bicycle said:


> How old is your 26" rim? We made new top plates for that mold a while back to lower the center channel slightly, and we also lowered the hookless lips to increase impact resistance. It is possible you have one of the rims before this revision.
> 
> Which 29x30 do you have, is it the 29C19 or is it the 29C02 (no longer on the website?). I can't recall tire setup issues with either of these ones. If the tires are fitting tight, you need to make sure you are using a very thin tubeless tape. Gorilla tape is quite thick for example and make the tires fit too tight. It is shocking how much difference that bit of extra thickness makes. You can also run the tubeless tape in the center channel only, no need to cover full width if you use good quality thin tubeless tape. If you must use 2 layers to get enough strength, overlap them LEFT/RIGHT leaving about 2mm gap between the layers so that the edges are feathered out. This will help keep the tire from folding over the tape when you unmount tires. Kwarwick also had some good advice, you have to make sure to keep the bead in the very center so it has as much slack as possible. If you slosh around your tubeless sealant so it coats the tape or wet the tire beads with a tire fitting fluid, maybe that would help also.
> 
> ...


LB,

From my order email:
RM26C03: 454g.453g.
RM29C02: 405g.405g.

It appears that both sets of rims I have are no longer made anymore.

Myself and multiple people, including a respected bike shop all unsuccessfully attempted to mount wire bead Maxxis DH tires to the 26x33mm rims. Tried using sealant for lube, windex, wearing rubber palmed work gloves, etc.

Which (thin) tubeless tapes do you recommend I try?


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

eb1888 said:


> Well you're not restricted to just one tire, just like you're getting a new wheelset to improve performance.
> I now have a 2.7" Fat B Nimble front tire with a regular SID fork(Reba is the same clearance). But even with my round profile XR! 2.2 Team Bontrager rear the 31.6mm id rim makes a major difference. Traction, no foldover washouts, sidewall support and more cushion from lower psi are all positive benefits that more than outweigh a few grams.
> Carbon rims aren't $40. Don't waste your money on skinny pizza cutter rims you'll be replacing before you know it. Anyone who says 24 is fine has zero time on wide rims. Zero time means zero value.Their recommendation would change with just one ride.


Hmm. I wouldn't be so sure. 
There are some people around here who went back from wider rims to narrower, 25id. The main reason was the squared out tire profile and added weight. 
So there are still some who don't prefer the 30id +


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

PUNKY said:


> LB,
> 
> From my order email:
> RM26C03: 454g.453g.
> ...


Orange Seal tape should be readily available. Wire bead DH tires would be very hard to fit, perhaps maxxis new tubeless ready tires with DD casing is the next best option to a full-on DH tire?


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## ibismojo09 (Jan 31, 2013)

Hi Light Bicycle. Just wondering if you have any tips on how to remove the tires from the rims the easiest way. I just had a flat tire yesterday and I couldn't remove the tire from the bead at all. By the way I'm using the lb 38 wide am rims.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ibismojo09 said:


> Hi Light Bicycle. Just wondering if you have any tips on how to remove the tires from the rims the easiest way. I just had a flat tire yesterday and I couldn't remove the tire from the bead at all. By the way I'm using the lb 38 wide am rims.


I'm not sure what tubeless tape you used, but if you have a tight fitting tire try to use a thin tubeless tape and you can just apply it over the holes. You don't need to go over the bead seat as that can make it too tight for some tires.

1. You need to drain the tire with air as much as possible and then screw the valve shut so that the vacuum pressure does not suck air back in.

2. With your weaker hand, grab the tire from the top (you will be pulling upward and pulling inward). With your stronger hand, grab the tire with your palm near the bead (you'll be pushing upward and pushing inward). Position your hands side by side so they are working on the same spot to try and break the bead. Pull with the one hand and push with the other at the same time.

3. If that spot does not work, reposition your hands to another spot and try again there and so on. Each time you move, be sure that the tire bead moves back down to the original position. If you manage to pull the bead half way onto the bead seat, that will make things tighter as it's a raised section of the rim (about 0.4mm taller).

4. You can try different body positions to gain more leverage, or have a friend help


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

HI LB is your rims possible use with Schwalbe procore system. 
Wil it void warranty?
Procore inner chamber pressure require 4-6bar and your rims max allowed pressure is 35psi-2.5 bar


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

VitaliT said:


> HI LB is your rims possible use with Schwalbe procore system.
> Wil it void warranty?
> Procore inner chamber pressure require 4-6bar and your rims max allowed pressure is 35psi-2.5 bar


Hi VitaliT, I do not think we can warranty the rims used with Procore as it does add a lot of pressure to the rims, however we have a number of customers using the system for ~6 months+ without issues so far.


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## ibismojo09 (Jan 31, 2013)

light bicycle said:


> I'm not sure what tubeless tape you used, but if you have a tight fitting tire try to use a thin tubeless tape and you can just apply it over the holes. You don't need to go over the bead seat as that can make it too tight for some tires.
> 
> 1. You need to drain the tire with air as much as possible and then screw the valve shut so that the vacuum pressure does not suck air back in.
> 
> ...


Thanks LB for the reply.


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## palo_lude (Oct 22, 2015)

so been thinking about the rims again, still not completely decided.
can someone comment on how stiff a wheel with AM728 and/or AM724 rim will feel like? I just read some test description on some other carbon wheels and they described the feeling of riding the wheels similar to loosing like 1 inch of suspension travel and/or riding very high pressure tires... I am sure this is what I am not after. I do realize each wheel will have a different feeling and rider weight might be one of the factors as well. just was curious if someone switched from normal alloy rims and can comment on the amount of stiffness these rims introduce.

@ LB also was thinking about bike transportation. I assume I will use some sort of hitch mounted bike rack. these use wheel straps. is this risk free and OK to do for your rims or should pinching of the rim be avoided?


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

I had my first ride with these rims in Thursday and since then, I've been riding them every day 
The precision seemed absurd at first but I got used to it rather quickly. 
I've never had a bike turn this quickly and this sharp before, it really blew me away. One of the best upgrades I ever did.
So far, I couldn't feel any loss of comfort though. With 6" of travel and 2.35" tires I wouldn't have expected that to happen anyway, though.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Rad, which rims did you get? Insane directional stability. right?


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

What rims/spokes were you using before? What rim/spokes did you go to? 

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## panchosdad (Sep 21, 2008)

Radical_53 said:


> I had my first ride with these rims in Thursday and since then, I've been riding them every day
> The precision seemed absurd at first but I got used to it rather quickly.
> I've never had a bike turn this quickly and this sharp before, it really blew me away. One of the best upgrades I ever did.
> So far, I couldn't feel any loss of comfort though. With 6" of travel and 2.35" tires I wouldn't have expected that to happen anyway, though.
> ...


That's what I noticed with mine as well.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

@prophet: Yes absolutely. Very very nice 

I've been running CX Ray spokes on my last two wheel sets. As the they weren't *that* much more than normal spokes I went with them again.

I came from a set of original Stan's Flow rims (no EX) 26", now I'm running a set of RM26C03 with internal nipples.




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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

palo_lude said:


> @ LB also was thinking about bike transportation. I assume I will use some sort of hitch mounted bike rack. these use wheel straps. is this risk free and OK to do for your rims or should pinching of the rim be avoided?


This should not be an issue at all, but it may scratch the rims a bit if clamped in the same area over and over again (depending on the clamp and how much vibration happens). Perhaps a piece of inner tube positioned underneath the clamp would protect the rims from scratching.

The main thing to watch out for when mounting a bike with carbon rims to a car is the vehicle exhaust. You don't want to heat up the carbon rims too much.


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## shiverun (Jul 15, 2016)

*LB XC923 (hookless) laced w DT240s*

Recently purchased this wheelset from Light Bicycle. I bought them to replace my Stans Race Gold wheels that are not practical on rocky courses (paper thin sidewalls). I am hoping these hookless rims will allow me to keep the pressure on the lower side and perform where the RG's failed. I haven't raced on these yet but they are very stiff and the tubeless setup only took about 10 minutes. Because the LB wheelset is slightly heavier (then what I'm used to) I will probably compete on 2. 1 Racing Ralph lite skins - this should save some weight...The wheels are similar in weight to the M50s from Envy but slightly heavier then the Valor's from Stans. My guess is that Stans is saving weight on the hubs...any chance LB will stock DT 180s?

These pictures are 15/100 front wheels from Stans and LB (both include valves - Stans rim is tapped LB is not


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I don't know where you ride, but the extra volume provided by the larger width rims should allow you to run lower pressure. You should mount up something as wide as you had or a bit wider. Weight is not the point of those stiff, wider carbon fiber rims. Flying through chunky stuff with ease is the thing they do best. They give you directional stability, much more that the ultra light set you had. 

I had Blunt SL's built with a Velocity Race hub and Lefty front hub. Like you first set, they were sub 1,400 grams. I am much faster on my LB set that weighs about 1,600 grams like yours. 

But I had to adapt to the new rims. They do not absorb anything. It's all on the tires and the shocks. I have had 2 different tires of 27.5 x 2.3's mounted, and I have been running 16 to 18 psi front and 18 to 20 psi rear. No pinch flats, no burps. The same tires from the skinny rims handled much better on the wide rims. The new tires, which are much more substantial, are incredibly fast for the rough, rocky and root infested trails of New England, (MA , VT and NH)

I hope this helps. It's always about what works for you, so just trying to give you my impressions.


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## Anita Handle (Nov 21, 2004)

Stan's Valors saves a lot of weight BT using fewer spokes of a thin gauge. I think they use a custom made Sapim Laser that is actually thinner than the stock version. So if you use 32 spokes of reasonable thickness, your wheel might weigh more. I don't think Stan's publishes the wright's of their carbon rims.

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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I just noticed that you got the asymmetric XC 923 rims. That should be a nice wheelset. Not much wider than your originals, but I bet they are much more direct and capable.


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## shiverun (Jul 15, 2016)

Chris,

Thanks for the information. It's interesting to hear you are faster with the "heavier" wheelset. I haven't really had a chance to use the LB wheels because I had to wait for a new thru axle hanger (from china) and now I am taking some time off. I live in NE as well so yes I am familiar w the rocks and roots! I will probably be running around 16 to 17 psi with the LB wheels (ran 17 with the RGs).


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## heatstroke (Jul 1, 2003)

LightBicycle, for the LB38 rims, at what angle do you drill the spoke holes. I notice that my first set ( about 2 years old) do not have any noticable angle to the holes. Did this change over time. With 157 mm DH hubs, the spoke bends quite a bit at the nipple.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Not LB, but with a set of CB rims I had I could not see any angle looking a the spoke holes or the clearance holes in the rim bed. It was only when I put a close fitting rod into the spoke holes that it became obvious that they were drilled at angles, in agreement with the spec.


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## shiverun (Jul 15, 2016)

Spent the last four days riding my XC923s (w 2.25 racing ralphs) and have to say they are awesome! Stiff and very fast...


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

heatstroke said:


> LightBicycle, for the LB38 rims, at what angle do you drill the spoke holes. I notice that my first set ( about 2 years old) do not have any noticable angle to the holes. Did this change over time. With 157 mm DH hubs, the spoke bends quite a bit at the nipple.


We did not drill angular holes in the past, but now we drill them at 5 degrees by default on mountain bike rims.


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## jpec29 (Jul 22, 2015)

Has anyone got a set of the 650b+ 50mm rims? I'm looking at these for a plus bike


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## Matt Gallagher (Oct 18, 2013)

Centurion_ said:


> Common sense would dictate that wheels or rims you buy for...significantly less than half of market price for similar wheels or rims will fall short of the more expensive product, as will the warranty.
> 
> If that's too much to grasp, do without, or shell out a couple grand for a quality wheelset from a company that will stand behind their product. At those prices, you would expect them to do so.
> 
> ...


Hi

from my experience (6 x sets of DH 38 wide 650b rims) their warranty has been very good.

4 of the rims were for me 2 for a friend. my friend split the side wall after a big step up crunch at Pila but didn't notice until the end of the day. i took pictures and LB immediately warrantied. sent out a replacement no hassle.

2 of the newer rims wouldn't seal correctly, they paid for a shop to try and seal with out success so they completely refunded me. (valve hole was slightly to big so i just used some silicone to seal the valve area, seems to work now.

As to longevity, Nomad cc has been 2 seasons now, last year used as my DH bike, PDS , Tignes,les deux alpes, alpe d'huez France. Pila, Finale ligure Italy, Verbier, Crans switzerland etc not a single blip. Newer ones have taken a beating at the same places for this season and so far no issues.

As you say for a sub 200 USD rim instead of 800 gbp its great value. furthermore ok for that 800 gbp per rim you get a 5 year warranty, just about everyone i know has had to use that warranty within the first year. for paying that much you really would hope for more, considering time off the bike, rebuilding the wheel etc.

pretty sure most of these cheap Chinese rims are made using the same molds as other higher priced branded rims. IMHO id go Chinese any day over the big high priced brands.


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## shiverun (Jul 15, 2016)

How much do you weigh and how did it happen?


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## Matt Gallagher (Oct 18, 2013)

it was my friend, hes about 80 kg and he cased a big step up in Pila but didn't realise until later in the day that the rim was damaged. An ally rim would of tacoed and his day would of been over.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

jpec29 said:


> Has anyone got a set of the 650b+ 50mm rims? I'm looking at these for a plus bike


Have some installed on my Carbon Fat bike frame with Dirt Wizard 3" tires are working great! Have a scratch on the rear wheel due to rock contact but it's only on the surface. Great Wheels.


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## iSlowpoke (Feb 24, 2009)

Never had carbon rims at all. Thinking about these. I have a concern with the tire pressure I currently run. I use 27.5+ tires. 13 psi in the front and 14 psi in the rear. I've ran 14/15 and that seems too harsh and loss of traction for me. Is this too low a pressure for carbon rims?


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## charlatan (Aug 14, 2010)

Nash04 said:


> Have some installed on my Carbon Fat bike frame with Dirt Wizard 3" tires are working great! Have a scratch on the rear wheel due to rock contact but it's only on the surface. Great Wheels.


Isn't the 50mm a bit wide for a 3"? I am considering a 29+ bike purchase, and was looking for 40-45mm carbon wheels, but alas I see Light doesn't have one in that sweet spot.

Would I be better off getting something just over 3" for the tire if I purchased these?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

I have both 50mm with 3" tires and 70mm with 4" tires and I like the 50mm best.

You could use this model; Carbon beadless 50mm wide 29 inch rims for 29 plus mountain bikes tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle

Are you looking towards the inner width which is 45mm inner.


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## charlatan (Aug 14, 2010)

Nash04 said:


> I have both 50mm with 3" tires and 70mm with 4" tires and I like the 50mm best.
> 
> You could use this model; Carbon beadless 50mm wide 29 inch rims for 29 plus mountain bikes tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle
> 
> Are you looking towards the inner width which is 45mm inner.


Yep, that's the one. Man these are tempting...

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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

LB, Sent you a request through your custom wheel build page but haven't got a response as of yet?

Are you guys on vacation this week?


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

light bicycle said:


> We have a few new website improvements I thought I would share with MTBR:
> 
> 1. Our inventory system is now linked to our website. When you are choosing rims or wheelsets, *the lead time will be displayed*
> 
> View attachment 1071350


The lead time is either, "In stock and will ship within 2 business days", or "Will be manufactured and shipped soon"

Your company might do well to contact the buyer immediately after ordering (just as you did to confirm my shipping address) with an approximate timeline...as in, "we cannot give you a definite date, but it will be at least 2 weeks before we turn out another production run." Perhaps your buyers don't understand the lead-time that is necessary to produce some of your less-popular models of rims amid the volume of production/backlog at any given time, but you do.

You have my order cancellation request in your mailbox.


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## shiverun (Jul 15, 2016)

These wheels are worth the wait! I own 3 pairs - about to purchase a 4th.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

I'm sure they are, and I'm disappointed to cancel the order. I had 3 weeks to replace a broken rim, and placed an order for a pair of rims thinking that was a reasonable amount of time. 6 days ago when I last inquired about the status, the estimate was they would be shipped in 3-5 days. So, 2 weeks as of now, and no rims have been shipped.

2 weeks may be reasonable. Heck, 3 or 4 weeks lead may be reasonable for production of a 26" rim they don't stock and probably don't make too often. But if I was informed that there would be a 3 or 4 week wait, or even a 2 week wait where I'm at now, I would have placed an order elsewhere so that I can rebuild my wheels before next weekend's races.

My time constraint is not their problem, but their inability to provide/stick to a timeline is now my problem. And all I'm suggesting is that since they are the manufacturers, experts of their production timelines, they should provide an estimate that is better than "indefinite".


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## shiverun (Jul 15, 2016)

They prob don't stock 26 - but you can find that stuff on ebay pretty cheap. Everything I've ordered from them has come quick! Sorry it didn't work out for you. I own several pairs of "racing wheels" to prevent the very issue you are having.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

When I broke a Nextie over the summer, I ordered a crash-replacement, but at the same time, I ordered and built up an aluminum rim wheel, because I needed one for a race coming up. 1st rule in the bike world is never order something when you need it by a certain date. Nextie was super-fast though and I had the rim in about a week and a half from order to doorstep, I only had to use the aluminum wheel for a couple days, but I did good in the race! I'm currently waiting for a pair of LB 65mm rims to show up, but so far the order to deliver time is normal and I'm not concerned. For whatever reason, my Nextie orders, all 3 of them, have always been faster than LB.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Nash04 said:


> LB, Sent you a request through your custom wheel build page but haven't got a response as of yet?
> 
> Are you guys on vacation this week?


Sorry about that, have you gotten a response yet from our customer service team? Maybe there was an issue with the form. Could you try emailing [email protected] ?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> The lead time is either, "In stock and will ship within 2 business days", or "Will be manufactured and shipped soon"
> 
> Your company might do well to contact the buyer immediately after ordering (just as you did to confirm my shipping address) with an approximate timeline...as in, "we cannot give you a definite date, but it will be at least 2 weeks before we turn out another production run." Perhaps your buyers don't understand the lead-time that is necessary to produce some of your less-popular models of rims amid the volume of production/backlog at any given time, but you do.
> 
> You have my order cancellation request in your mailbox.


We appreciate the feedback, we have been working on a new upgrade to connect our inventory back-end systems with the front end of the website so consumers can see the entire stock list of our rims. This should be up and running soon!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> I'm sure they are, and I'm disappointed to cancel the order. I had 3 weeks to replace a broken rim, and placed an order for a pair of rims thinking that was a reasonable amount of time. 6 days ago when I last inquired about the status, the estimate was they would be shipped in 3-5 days. So, 2 weeks as of now, and no rims have been shipped.
> 
> 2 weeks may be reasonable. Heck, 3 or 4 weeks lead may be reasonable for production of a 26" rim they don't stock and probably don't make too often. But if I was informed that there would be a 3 or 4 week wait, or even a 2 week wait where I'm at now, I would have placed an order elsewhere so that I can rebuild my wheels before next weekend's races.
> 
> My time constraint is not their problem, but their inability to provide/stick to a timeline is now my problem. And all I'm suggesting is that since they are the manufacturers, experts of their production timelines, they should provide an estimate that is better than "indefinite".


We had quite a bit of added pressure this past while as there were several typhoons that caused a lot of issues with production. There were so many power outages around the city that we couldn't get answers on when things would be restored so it really interrupted the production timelines. We are fairly caught up now though.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

light bicycle said:


> Sorry about that, have you gotten a response yet from our customer service team? Maybe there was an issue with the form. Could you try emailing [email protected] ?


Finally got in touch with them and have ordered my rim, just waiting for the waybill.


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## tahic (Jul 21, 2008)

Nash04 said:


> Finally got in touch with them and have ordered my rim, just waiting for the waybill.


Did you have to email? I'm in the same boat no response to custom wheel order


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Left them a message on their web page- chat link.

Check your SPAM box.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

tahic said:


> Did you have to email? I'm in the same boat no response to custom wheel order


We found that recently we were not getting emails on most of the forms on our website. We've added new notifications and are going back to see what we missed by logging into the system another way. If anyone has not gotten a reply, you should hear from us shortly, or feel free to send us an email [email protected] Sorry for the delay!!


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Well! It'll be 2 weeks that I ordered a rim and still no shipping information as of yet! Might start looking at other vendors, do really like their rims but just takes too long to ship. You figure 2 weeks to build a rim then another 1.5 weeks for shipping/custom so basically you waited at least a month before finally riding them....wow!


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

It took at least that long when I ordered my rims, but it was well worth the wait.
I had the rims ordered with custom decals and both the quality and the sales support before the order were top notch.
Honestly, no vendor with custom options would (or should) have this stuff available much earlier.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

It's worth the wait. I just checked and I have 1,250 miles on my LB 38s. Not a single problem. They are tough. I had them built locally.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

I have another set of their wheels and they are great but the wait is killing me especially since I haven't receive a shipping waybill as of yet!


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## iSlowpoke (Feb 24, 2009)

I want a set, but I kinda want to get the Nobl because of their hubs. 

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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Just for reference, if you are wanting FAST turn around time on your order, then buying locally (US I'm speaking of if you're in the US) will be your answer. I've bought at least a couple dozen rims now from Light Bicycle over the years. Started back in the day with their original 26" narrow stuff. 

Anyway, this latest order on a couple of 29er rims - RM29C19

3 October - Order placed as in paypal charged. 
8 October - Shipping address verification. 
19 October - Email from them says they will ship day after tomorrow. 
23 October - Email with shipping indication from China Post with link and shipping #. 
5 November - Delivered to me. 

So that was a little over a month from ordering to receive with $63+ for shipping which takes a little over 2 weeks to go from China to the West Coast US to clear customs and then to Hawaii. 

Is it worth it? Still expensive but I am satisfied with their product. It just requires patience. With all the wheels I've built with these, I've had only one failure and that was one with a hooked bead (old school) and it was my fault because I pinch flatted my tire (tubeless) and hit a rock (in a lava rock section) very hard. Bottom line. Would an aluminum rim survived this? No. No way.


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## Soihtu (Oct 16, 2015)

Do you ship straight from china or do you have warehouse in europe?
There will be 50% customs charge for bike components from china. It would be avoided if sent from Europe. 50% customs makes it more expensive then buying LBS.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Received an email last night stating the "rim" is now in the matting process and should be done next Monday?!?!?! So basically I paid for the rim on 11/02 and won't be done being built till 11/21 then ship out?!?!

Sorry but this will be the last one that I will purchase from them even though they are very good rims, the process is way too slow, slower then last purchase. 

I'm disappointed with LB.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nash04 said:


> Received an email last night stating the "rim" is now in the matting process and should be done next Monday?!?!?! So basically I paid for the rim on 11/02 and won't be done being built till 11/21 then ship out?!?!
> 
> Sorry but this will be the last one that I will purchase from them even though they are very good rims, the process is way too slow, slower then last purchase.
> 
> I'm disappointed with LB.


Yes, this is how it works, they* make* your rims. I just built up a pair of LB rims I received a week ago. You seem very upset that you couldn't get them in a week? Did not not research this first?


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Soihtu said:


> Do you ship straight from china or do you have warehouse in europe?
> There will be 50% customs charge for bike components from china. It would be avoided if sent from Europe. 50% customs makes it more expensive then buying LBS.


That isn't true, not even closely.
There are customs fees, but they only include VAT and some small surcharge.
For Germany, this is something like 4.7% for components and a little more for a full bike.

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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Jayem said:


> Yes, this is how it works, they* make* your rims. I just built up a pair of LB rims I received a week ago. You seem very upset that you couldn't get them in a week? Did not not research this first?
> View attachment 1105659


Nah! Guess you didn't take the time to read all of my comments since I did state that this is the second set of rim that I ordered through them and it didn't take that much time to ship it. I totally understand the portion of customs and getting to my house but it's the part of actually shipping it that I'm frustrated with.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi MTBR,

Thank you for the feedback regarding our lead times, this is very helpful for us to improve our service. 

1. We are working on a live inventory system so that customers can see what we have on hand. I'll post something here when that's up and running.

2. We manufacture a lot of different rim profiles with quite a bit of customization, so we have many thousands of combinations. For any given rim, we offer different hole count, angled drilling, matte/satin finish, different layup schedules and different styles of carbon fibre with no minimum order. This diversity means we have a bit more lead time. 

3. What's important to think about is that you are buying NEW product. Any inventory we have is not going to be old. You have to be careful with some companies as they might have a lot of inventory, but it could be several generations old and not as good as the current model. 

4. We carry inventory on our asymmetric line of rims. We are comfortable doing this as this line of products remain at the leading edge of our product development so they do not get stagnant. We only inventory the most popular styles (UD Matte 32h for example)

5. Our finishing department is one of the best in the industry. We spend significantly more time in this area than our competitors. We could save 4+ days of lead time on average if we did shortcuts in this area, but we feel the extra layers of QC and attention to detail are of higher value.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Here is a new link we created to show our live inventory list! We'll figure out where to incorporate this onto the website, but I thought I'd share on MTBR first.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/rim_stock/

Thank you!


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Exciting! 

After destroying several pairs of alloy rims, Im excited to try some nice carbon wheels. (I have ridden reynolds, which were top notch. 

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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks to this thread, I took the plunge and bought a set of LB RM650BC13 HD in 32h. Im having a little different experience as my wheel set was in stock and ready to ship even before i ordered them. I placed my order on Fri night 11pm est. I asked for the stealth stickers found on the asymmetrical rims instead of the ones that come stock on the 38mm rims. Within 3 hours i had a tracking number stating my order has shipped. I made my order direct with vivian, but previously nancy answered all my questions extremely fast and with knowledge of the product. 

Even though i got my tracking number the item still hasnt shown in the ems system probably due to its the weekend. I ordered these rims to pair with another set of '16 Hadley's. I dont expect them here in a week but if they are here in any time frame under a month; id be happy. 

One thing that made this decision much easier is LB uses the same freight forwarder i use in china for products i import. I already discussed adding a rim or set on with one of my other orders in case of an emergency. They said no problem and since usually im paying $6 per kilo over when shipping over 50kgs from china express DHL. I could probably have a replacement rim inside of a week in an emergency. LB said shipping to my Forwarder would be $15 then $6 express from china. usually i get my stuff inside 5 days. I would have done this shipping for this order but i wont be ordering again from china until early dec. 

Im really afraid to order spokes and nipples till i measure the erd myself. Based on getting 536mm not including nipple head from vivian. Just by chance what have people been using for the erd on this wheels? Putting this on a brand new scott genius 700 premium! Super stoked!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

MikeRock98 said:


> Thanks to this thread, I took the plunge and bought a set of LB RM650BC13 HD in 32h. Im having a little different experience as my wheel set was in stock and ready to ship even before i ordered them. I placed my order on Fri night 11pm est. I asked for the stealth stickers found on the asymmetrical rims instead of the ones that come stock on the 38mm rims. Within 3 hours i had a tracking number stating my order has shipped. I made my order direct with vivian, but previously nancy answered all my questions extremely fast and with knowledge of the product.
> 
> Even though i got my tracking number the item still hasnt shown in the ems system probably due to its the weekend. I ordered these rims to pair with another set of '16 Hadley's. I dont expect them here in a week but if they are here in any time frame under a month; id be happy.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,

The ERD we list can be on the short side for some calculators, so the safest bet is to round your spoke sizes up a bit. This spoke calculator is quite accurate, use the ERD we list and round the spokes up ~1.5mm and you can't go too wrong. If you are comfortable measuring your own ERD and have a proven method for spoke length, then that is great too. Spoke Calculator for bicycle wheels | Prowheelbuilder.com

I would do 259 disc, 260 drive on the front and 261 disc, 259 drive on the rear (if going 3-cross). This was based on 59mm rear flange diameter and 58mm front, so you might give your hubs a double check.

On a side note, you need to consider what nipples you are using. If you use a regular nipple, 536-537 should be okay. But If I was using a raised head like DT Squorx, or a hex head, or a double square nipple then I'd use 539 so you can get more thread engagement with this nipple.


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

Wow that wasnt the response i thought i was gonna get but thank you Light Bicycle. Last wheel build i use the manufacture ERD and the wheels came out perfect. 
My hub dimensions are a little different then you stated. Ill be using normal black brass 14mm DT nipples. 

Front:
Hub Spoke Hole Dimensions:
Spoke Hole Circle: 57.0mm
Center to RH Flange: 33.5mm
Center to LH (Disc Brake Side) Flange: 22.5mm
Spoke Hole Diameter: 2.70m


Rear
Hub Spoke Hole Dimensions:
Spoke Hole Circle: 59mm
Center to RH (Drive Side) Flange: 20.3mm
Center to LH (Disc Brake Side) Flange: 33.7mm
Spoke Hole Diameter: 2.70mm

Thanks again LB, my wheels showed picked up literally 48 hours from ordering...So far your service has been awesome!


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

*i35 rims*

I want an internal width i35mm rim. Do you guys plan on making any rims that size? I have an i40 up front on one of my bikes but have found the i35 as the best size for running 2.35 to 2.6 tires.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

any plans for a 30mm external, 24mm internal asymmetric rim around 380g?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

What's the normal length of shipping. Received the tracking number on the 19th and hasn't change since then even though I was told 4-5 days to arrive?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nash04 said:


> What's the normal length of shipping. Received the tracking number on the 19th and hasn't change since then even though I was told 4-5 days to arrive?


Mine didn't move for a week or so after getting the shipping number.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

hardmtnbiker said:


> I want an internal width i35mm rim. Do you guys plan on making any rims that size? I have an i40 up front on one of my bikes but have found the i35 as the best size for running 2.35 to 2.6 tires.


Are you looking for a 27.5"? Our AM733's are actually 33.6mm internally which is pretty close to what you are looking for. https://www.lightbicycle.com/EN733-asymmetric-rim-profile-carbon-27-5-inch-carbon-rims-mtb.html


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Andy13 said:


> any plans for a 30mm external, 24mm internal asymmetric rim around 380g?


Hi Andy,

In 27.5", we make an asymmetric rim 24 internal, 30 external and they are 385g +/-15g https://www.lightbicycle.com/AM724-asymmetric-rim-profile-carbon-650b-mountain-bike-rims.html

We have some in stock at these weights currently: 379g,381g,383g,384g


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Nash04 said:


> What's the normal length of shipping. Received the tracking number on the 19th and hasn't change since then even though I was told 4-5 days to arrive?


With standard air shipping by EMS, the tracking often won't update until it lands in your country and is pending customs clearance. You might get better tracking information from your local delivery company than on the EMS website. For instance, if you happened to be in Canada, you could paste that EMS tracking number on the canadapost.ca website and you would see more info. For the US, I believe it is USPS. EMS can take longer sometimes, it is not as fast as DHL for example, but DHL is quite a bit more expensive and charges taxes etc 100% of the time.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Finally got an update and it's in the US so that's good. DHL doesn't charge any taxes unless it's over $800 since I purchase many items through CRC which are base in Ireland and there's no fees/taxes unless it's over $800.
Even though, DHL pilots are on strike at this moment so stay away from them for now.
My other package is on hold since Monday in Cincinnati due to the strike...sucks!


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I was actually looking for 29er.
thanks.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Andy13 said:


> I was actually looking for 29er.
> thanks.


Hi Andy,

We made the 23mm internal 29er asymmetric rim which is 370g. I don't think we have any plans for a 24mm 29er rim.https://www.lightbicycle.com/XC923-asymmetric-rim-profile-carbon-29er-bike-rims.html


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

My rims arrived yesterday....Took 11days total, and in reality only took 6 business days from china over the thanksgiving week. My rims look absolutely perfect even though the box was a little mangled and there really wasnt anything to protect the rims except some super tape thin foam, but still got here without a scratch. This was a DH layup they had in stock with custom logos. Wheel weights were 506g and 510g. 

Really happy with the service so far!


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

I am interested in purchasing some wheels, any chance I can get them with Hope Pro 4 hubs with Center Lock, when I try the build option all the comes up is DT Swiss 350.


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## ericm979 (Sep 25, 2013)

try the custom wheel builder. The other day I wanted to order wheels but the DT240s centerlock boost hubs I wanted had disappeared from the regular wheel build page. I used the custom wheel builder and they're available there.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ericm979 said:


> try the custom wheel builder. The other day I wanted to order wheels but the DT240s centerlock boost hubs I wanted had disappeared from the regular wheel build page. I used the custom wheel builder and they're available there.


Yes, sorry about that. If anyone has some special request please send us an email to [email protected] and we'll look into it. We sometimes have additional options that don't make their way to every product page. I don't beleive Hope's are available in centerlock but we have DT 350 and 240's in centerlock.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

light bicycle said:


> Yes, sorry about that. If anyone has some special request please send us an email to [email protected] and we'll look into it. We sometimes have additional options that don't make their way to every product page. I don't beleive Hope's are available in centerlock but we have DT 350 and 240's in centerlock.


Thanks for getting back to me.


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## Sweet Dick Willie (Jun 5, 2014)

Why no boost 240s in j bend 32 hole?


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Greetings Light Bicycle folks!

Question about drainage holes. I'm 14 months into an excellent build on a set of 2015 26C05 38/31.6mm hoops. They have been flawless and have seen nearly 2000 miles of technical singletrack. They visit their builder pretty regularly just for truing and tension check-ups but so far have not need any adjustment since about their first or second month.

The only "issue" I have noticed is that just through regular maintenance and cleaning of my bike, which I keep in prime condition, the rims will take in a bit of water or maybe even end up with some inside from condensation. I avoid spraying my bike during the process as to not effect bearings, etc. I've notice lots of similar rims, Derby comes to mind, are drilling one small hole in the rim to allow for drainage of this moisture that I believe is inevitable. 

Are the newer rims you produce utilizing this same approach and could you provide thoughts on the possibility of doing this to my existing wheels? I'm thinking in terms of directions on the suitable location and distance from the hookless rim that would be necessary to insure penetration exclusively into the inner chamber.

I'll soon be looking your direction for some hoops for a new 29'r singlespeed build I just aquired. Thanks!


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I wonder about this too. It seems to me that the only place water could get into a rim is around the valve stem as the nipple heads seal against the rim and whatever spoke thread preparation is used more or less seals that path...and the rim bed is sealed with tubeless tape or a strip. Would a hole let more in than it lets out?


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Agreed. Mine exudes water at times from the valve stem. It just sort of runs out and I've had people tell me I'm leaking sealant...which it's not. My biggest concern that I am monitoring now is we used double coated, double anodized alloy nipples on this build with the understanding that galvanic action _could _ take place and while retaping the rim, noticed a build up of crust on many nipples. When cleaned off with a q-tip and alcohol, the nipples are still shiny and coatings appear intact but we're (builder and myself) not 100% certain if it's corrosion or just dried residue from a sealant seep. Having moisture in that area can't be a good thing and I'd like to give it a place to go. I think the hole like Derby, et al has is beneficial. When I put my bike to sleep, I could just time the wheels so the hole is oriented at 6 o'clock and would allow water to escape.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Regarding drain holes in our rims, the area should be reinforced if there were to be a hole drilled in there. So we can not recommend drilling an existing rim. None of our rims have drain holes drilled into them. If you want to completely dry your rim out once in a while, the best bet is to do this with the tire a tape removed. You can spin the wheel and the centrifugal force will spit any water out of the rim. Then leave the rim to dry out before sealing it back up.


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

Are there any end of year or holiday sales coming up?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Snopro440 said:


> Are there any end of year or holiday sales coming up?


Is it the end of the Chinese year?


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Is it the end of the Chinese year?


I appreciate your helpful response. It is the type of helpful response that is so common here that people keep coming back seeking the assistance of kind people like yourself.

I have checked, and January 1st is a national holiday in China, celebrating, holy cow, NEW YEAR. Do they also have Chineese new year on or about January 28th, yep. So yes, it is the end of both years to answer your question.

https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/china/2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_China

Again, thanks for the help. I honestly didn't know the date of Chineese new year other than it was a few weeks after January 1st and now I do because I looked it up.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Snopro440 said:


> Are there any end of year or holiday sales coming up?


Not that I can think of, but you can always send us an email and let us know what your hub standards are and what sort of rims you are looking at for example and we can see if there are any discounted products available.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Has anyone received the recently available 27.5+ rims (asym, 40mm internal, 46mm external) and measured the ERD?

I am in a time pinch and may need to order spokes before I can measure the rims I receive.


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> Has anyone received the recently available 27.5+ rims (asym, 40mm internal, 46mm external) and measured the ERD?
> 
> I am in a time pinch and may need to order spokes before I can measure the rims I receive.


I would suggest to measure the erd when the rims get there. I'd order the nipples now since they aren't the easiest part to find in 14mm.

I got super impatient too but was glad I waited. I asked light bicycle the erd and if I would have used there calculations my spokes would have been way long. Then I measured using some old 16mm nipples I had laying around and even when I compensated for the longer nipples. Once again my spokes would have been 1mm too long. Finally I got my 14mm dt nipples. Measured the erd a final time and got a final spoke which is used.

I buy custom rolled double butted spokes done on a Phil wood spoke cutter. I probably would have been fine either way but I like my wheels bulletproof and ordering the right sized spoke is crucial to that.

Good luck on the build. Stuff from China is coming a few days later as its busy season right now


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> Has anyone received the recently available 27.5+ rims (asym, 40mm internal, 46mm external) and measured the ERD?
> 
> I am in a time pinch and may need to order spokes before I can measure the rims I receive.


What hubs are you building with? I can check with the wheel builders. What spokes and nipples are you planning on using?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

New LB Jersey's are available now! Click here for more details.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> What hubs are you building with? I can check with the wheel builders. What spokes and nipples are you planning on using?


DT 350 centerlock boost 148 rear 110 front
Sapim Race (2/1.8/2) J bend 14mm Sapim brass nipples
3X 32H


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

MikeRock98 said:


> I got super impatient too but was glad I waited. I asked light bicycle the erd and if I would have used there calculations my spokes would have been way long. Then I measured using some old 16mm nipples I had laying around and even when I compensated for the longer nipples. Once again my spokes would have been 1mm too long. Finally I got my 14mm dt nipples. Measured the erd a final time and got a final spoke which is used.


Was this with the aforementioned 27.5 asym i40 rims? If so, what ERD did you use and what was your measuring method?


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## ericm979 (Sep 25, 2013)

I can't get the tire off my new LightBicycle wheels! AM928 rims, Schwable NobbyNic 2.3. I taped up the rim with a single layer of Stans and mounted the tire with a tube to compress the tape. Now I can't break the beads. The beadlocks in the rim work too well.

Any hints? If the tires don't loosen up its going to make it difficult to put a tube in flat tires on the trail.


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> Was this with the aforementioned 27.5 asym i40 rims? If so, what ERD did you use and what was your measuring method?


No it was with one of there 35mm DH wheels. And even if i did have the erd. It might be different as you are using Sapim nipples.

When I used my old 16mm nipples compared to dt 14mm I used on the build there was significant difference in nipple head height which contributed to a different spoke size needed.

My measuring method is outlined in roger musson wheel building book where you use 2x 200mm cut spokes and measure the distance between the spokes when threaded into the wheels.

I triple checked my measurements then ordered the spokes.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> DT 350 centerlock boost 148 rear 110 front
> Sapim Race (2/1.8/2) J bend 14mm Sapim brass nipples
> 3X 32H


Disc Front: 263 or 264mm
Drive Front: 265 or 266mm
Disc Rear: 264 or 265mm
Drive Rear: 263 or 264mm


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ericm979 said:


> I can't get the tire off my new LightBicycle wheels! AM928 rims, Schwable NobbyNic 2.3. I taped up the rim with a single layer of Stans and mounted the tire with a tube to compress the tape. Now I can't break the beads. The beadlocks in the rim work too well.
> 
> Any hints? If the tires don't loosen up its going to make it difficult to put a tube in flat tires on the trail.


I've run those rims without tight fitting tires, but I've got Maxxis. Schwalbe's can be hit and miss dimensionally, are they a tubeless ready version? Tubeless ready tires seem to have more stable dimensions. Having tubeless sealant in there lubricates things a bit, if you put them on dry with a tube initially that would be part of the reason it's tighter for sure. One thing you could try is 18mm tape in the center so it does not go over the bead seats.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> Disc Front: 263 or 264mm
> Drive Front: 265 or 266mm
> Disc Rear: 264 or 265mm
> Drive Rear: 263 or 264mm


Based on an ERD of ???

I appreciate the assistance but it would be even better if you published a spec. These pseudo-pre-production models don't seem to get their specs on the website until they've been shipping for months and months.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

MikeRock98 said:


> No it was with one of there 35mm DH wheels. And even if i did have the erd. It might be different as you are using Sapim nipples.
> 
> When I used my old 16mm nipples compared to dt 14mm I used on the build there was significant difference in nipple head height which contributed to a different spoke size needed.
> 
> ...


I recognize that it is best practice to measure ERD directly before ordering spokes, but as I mentioned in my original inquiry, I may not have time to do so and still get spokes shipped before I need to be riding.

If there were two folks here who built w/ these rims recently, and happened to measure ERD that aligned w/ LB published ERD, then I could order spokes with relative confidence that they'll work. The ERD varies little between random production units. In my experience, the variation is more often based on the manufacturer not being clear about their measuring "location", or not updating specs (or even typos). As you point out, even directly measured ERD can vary slightly based on preferred nipple, or final spoke seating depth preference. But so long as the folks who measured ERD also describe their nipples/method, I can "interpolate" to a reasonable prediction for my own nipples.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> Disc Front: 263 or 264mm
> Drive Front: 265 or 266mm
> Disc Rear: 264 or 265mm
> Drive Rear: 263 or 264mm





InertiaMan said:


> Based on an ERD of ???
> 
> I appreciate the assistance but it would be even better if you published a spec. These pseudo-pre-production models don't seem to get their specs on the website until they've been shipping for months and months.


Doing the math backwards, it looks like you're using 544mm ??

Also looks like maybe the 2.8mm offset wasn't accounted for, at least in the front hub. My DS/NDS length difference computes to only 0.9mm (front) and 0.8mm (rear).

EDIT: based on the cross-sectional drawing, the ERD should be 594 - 2*28 + 2*t(r) + 2*t, where t(r) = thickness of rim at nipple hole and t = depth into nipple of threads. That math implies that the LB ERD figure is based on t=0, ie spoke end coincident with the inner rim wall.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Here's the rim cross section fwiw so others can follow if they so please . . .


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> Based on an ERD of ???
> 
> I appreciate the assistance but it would be even better if you published a spec. These pseudo-pre-production models don't seem to get their specs on the website until they've been shipping for months and months.


I ran it on the DT Swiss calculator using your hubs at 544 and 546 ERD to check the range and posted sizes that should be a safe bet.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Interesting that you are using two different ERDs. Are you using the stock values for the hub flange spacing?


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

This is why I waited. Rather then having a messed up wheel set


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> Interesting that you are using two different ERDs. Are you using the stock values for the hub flange spacing?


The ERD is always a bit different from rim to rim so I use a 2mm range to account for that. I used stock measurements, so perhaps going with the longer sized spokes would be the best estimate to go by seeing as how they were boost hubs.

We just built a set up on some boost I9's so I double checked those and they had the perfect lengths. I checked the Pro Wheelbuilder calculator and it was perfectly accurate based on a 545mm ERD which is right in the middle of the range I mentioned previously. It said 264.1 left, 262.2 rear and we used 264 left 263 right and it was correct. The asymmetrical profile will typically add half a millimeter onto the short side and reduce half a millimeter on the long side.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> The ERD is always a bit different from rim to rim so I use a 2mm range to account for that. I used stock measurements, so perhaps going with the longer sized spokes would be the best estimate to go by seeing as how they were boost hubs.
> 
> We just built a set up on some boost I9's so I double checked those and they had the perfect lengths. I checked the Pro Wheelbuilder calculator and it was perfectly accurate based on a 545mm ERD which is right in the middle of the range I mentioned previously. It said 264.1 left, 262.2 rear and we used 264 left 263 right and it was correct. The asymmetrical profile will typically add half a millimeter onto the short side and reduce half a millimeter on the long side.


Is this a long winded way of saying the ERD is 545mm +/- 1mm??

So you didn't adjust the flange spacing or make other accommodations to correct for the 2.8mm asymmetry? Or for the 2mm offset of all spoke holes relative to that asym line? I know we're taking mm's here, but its sloppy.

Frankly I don't understand the reluctance to publish an ERD spec. And even when asked, to attempt to deduce it based on previous wheel builds. Does LB not specify a wall thickness in the layup (which would yield an ERD based on equation above)? Do you not measure ERD post-production?

For a Chinese rim company who is obviously trying to establish some level of legitimacy, going so far as to produce slick videos about your "sophisticated" production to justify 50% higher pricing than other Chinese carbon rim companies, why is it such a struggle to get the most basic of information: an ERD??


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

ericm979 said:


> I can't get the tire off my new LightBicycle wheels! AM928 rims, Schwable NobbyNic 2.3. I taped up the rim with a single layer of Stans and mounted the tire with a tube to compress the tape. Now I can't break the beads. The beadlocks in the rim work too well.
> 
> Any hints? If the tires don't loosen up its going to make it difficult to put a tube in flat tires on the trail.


I hear you!

We have two sets of wheels with LB 27.5 rims, love the their light weight and strength and how they perform. Mrs levity's 30mm inner width rims (RM650BC05) give a tight fit, but tires can be removed without too much of a struggle. My 31.6 inner width rims (RM650BC13), on the other hand have an extremely tight tight fit with several types of tubeless tires (Specialized, Schwalbe, WTB), both new and well used and presumably stretched. This is with Stans sealant and soap on the rm and tire and a narrow rim seal strip only in the channel. *The bead seat is just a bit too tight.* The good news is that they are very unlikely to burp during a ride. The bad news is that I have to play with tire pressure, kneel on the wheel rim, and use a strong stick/rod to push down on the tire sidewalls to unseat the bead. This is not good for the tire, and I even have to remove the brake rotor to make sure I don't bend it when it's facing the ground. Not sure I could even do it in the field if I had to put in a tube due to a large puncture or tear in the tire.
:madman:

I have some Uncle Dick's Bead Slip on order and will see if this makes it easier to mount and remove the tires next time around. In any case I think LB may need to decrease the BSD on the RM650BC13 rim a fraction and/or reduce the size of the small bead-lock lip on the inner edge of the shelf (shown as 0.5mm in the drawing above in post #367).


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> Is this a long winded way of saying the ERD is 545mm +/- 1mm??
> 
> So you didn't adjust the flange spacing or make other accommodations to correct for the 2.8mm asymmetry? Or for the 2mm offset of all spoke holes relative to that asym line? I know we're taking mm's here, but its sloppy.
> 
> ...


The AM740 rim ad is not up yet. The ERD will be listed on the ad in the technical specs like the other rims on our site. Some people are really asking for these rims so we started selling them before the developers have been able to publish the new ads for these.

Yes, the rims have a specified thickness and the nipple bed area, and it's a bit thicker for a reinforced version. There are a lot of layers in this area which is why it's best to measure for yourself using a method the builder is comfortable with. I mentioned rounding long spokes down .5mm and short side up .5mm to account for the asymmetric profile, for a 2.8mm offset that will be enough.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> I mentioned rounding long spokes down .5mm and short side up .5mm to account for the asymmetric profile, for a 2.8mm offset that will be enough.


If you think that all the spoke holes on the AM740 are all offset by 2.8mm, then you either haven't talked to your rim "developers" or you don't understand offsets and drilling patterns.

While a uniform 2.8mm offset would be my general expectation, and my _preference_, it is unfortunately NOT the case for these rims. As I mentioned in my last post, your default stock drilling pattern has alternating holes shifted +/- 2mm from the "asym line" (the line that is 2.8mm offset from rim center). This fact is subtly hidden in the cross sectional drawing above and verified by "Nancy."

So you really have the "short" spokes being lengthened to accommodate a 0.8mm offset from actual rim center, and the "long" spokes being shortened to accommodate a 4.8mm offset from rim center.

What is the engineering rationale for that drilling pattern? What could be the benefit to justify lessening the spoke bracing angle on BOTH sides of the hub? You're cancelling much of the benefit of the asymmetry.

I can think of only one benefit, but I'm skeptical its meaningful. And even more skeptical that someone from LB will identify it.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> If you think that all the spoke holes on the AM740 are all offset by 2.8mm, then you either haven't talked to your rim "developers" or you don't understand offsets and drilling patterns.
> 
> While a uniform 2.8mm offset would be my general expectation, and my _preference_, it is unfortunately NOT the case for these rims. As I mentioned in my last post, your default stock drilling pattern has alternating holes shifted +/- 2mm from the "asym line" (the line that is 2.8mm offset from rim center). This fact is subtly hidden in the cross sectional drawing above and verified by "Nancy."
> 
> ...


All of the rims I looked at happened to have inline spoke drilling offset by 2.8mm, sorry I did not catch that in your other post. My understanding of the alternating spoke drilling is that it's intended for wide rims to better support the structure. Nancy is on leave for a few days but I can check more with her later this week.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> All of the rims I looked at happened to have inline spoke drilling offset by 2.8mm, sorry I did not catch that in your other post. My understanding of the alternating spoke drilling is that it's intended for wide rims to better support the structure. Nancy is on leave for a few days but I can check more with her later this week.


Interesting that the rims you've seen are inline. Please check your PM as I am getting different input regarding drilling patterns from you and LB via email.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

levity said:


> I hear you!
> 
> We have two sets of wheels with LB 27.5 rims, love the their light weight and strength and how they perform. Mrs levity's 30mm inner width rims (RM650BC05) give a tight fit, but tires can be removed without too much of a struggle. My 31.6 inner width rims (RM650BC13), on the other hand have an extremely tight tight fit with several types of tubeless tires (Specialized, Schwalbe, WTB), both new and well used and presumably stretched. This is with Stans sealant and soap on the rm and tire and a narrow rim seal strip only in the channel. *The bead seat is just a bit too tight.* The good news is that they are very unlikely to burp during a ride. The bad news is that I have to play with tire pressure, kneel on the wheel rim, and use a strong stick/rod to push down on the tire sidewalls to unseat the bead. This is not good for the tire, and I even have to remove the brake rotor to make sure I don't bend it when it's facing the ground. Not sure I could even do it in the field if I had to put in a tube due to a large puncture or tear in the tire.
> :madman:
> ...


Let air out of tire, set wheel on ground, step on tire with either bare foot or stiff sole SPD boot (hiking/ski boots do not work because your foot shifts around too much inside the boot). This is how we break the bead on fat-bike tires, some of which are tighter than any normal-sized tire I've ever encountered.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I got a flat last Summer with my LB 31.6mm internal 27.5 rims and I had to walk out. I couldn't get the tire to unseat. Vittoria Morsa 2.3's. When I got home I was able to unseat the tire with my hands, but in the woods with sweaty hands I could not do it. Now I carry a rubber swim cap for triathlons in my camelback. It works. But it does take an extraordinary effort to break the bead. Fortunately I have only had 1 flat and 0 burps in over 1,000 miles on the Morsas. The Neo Motos went on and off more easily but the sidewalls were getting torn, 3 flats in 150 miles, so I went with an Enduro specific tire. Looking to change again to something with better wet grip.


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Let air out of tire, set wheel on ground, step on tire with either bare foot or stiff sole SPD boot ...


Yep, thanks, I've done that with some success (5.10 Freerider shoes work), but it's best done with two people and has a greater risk of damaging the wheel. Tires with stiffer sidewalls seem easier to pry off this way, but those with supple side walls just give without releasing the bead. I'm hoping that a coating of lube on the tire bead and rim shelf makes it a little easier to pop off.

Fortunately, unlike Prophet Julio, I haven't had to walk out yet.


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> Here's the rim cross section fwiw so others can follow if they so please . . .
> 
> View attachment 1110920


Interested in this rims but I cannot find them in LB shop, is they available or they are new product proto?


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## ericm979 (Sep 25, 2013)

light bicycle said:


> Schwalbe's can be hit and miss dimensionally, are they a tubeless ready version?


Yea.


light bicycle said:


> Tubeless ready tires seem to have more stable dimensions. Having tubeless sealant in there lubricates things a bit, if you put them on dry with a tube initially that would be part of the reason it's tighter for sure. One thing you could try is 18mm tape in the center so it does not go over the bead seats.


Wish I'd known that before I installed it. I did one layer of 25mm Stans. I still can't get the tire off. I tried dribbing some soapy water along the bead, still wasn't enough. Then I tried using a broad thin motorcycle tire iron. I can move the bead away from the rim wall a bit but not over the retension hump. Can't get a plastic tire iron in there.

I've about run out of options other than cutting off a brand new tire. I'm regretting getting rims with bead retension now.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

ericm979 said:


> Yea.
> 
> Wish I'd known that before I installed it. I did one layer of 25mm Stans. I still can't get the tire off. I tried dribbing some soapy water along the bead, still wasn't enough. Then I tried using a broad thin motorcycle tire iron. I can move the bead away from the rim wall a bit but not over the retension hump. Can't get a plastic tire iron in there.
> 
> I've about run out of options other than cutting off a brand new tire. I'm regretting getting rims with bead retension now.


No guarantees, but some possible methods:

Try "pulling" rather than "pushing". Use a short piece of dowel or similar and roll the tire carcass around it so you can get a supportive grip on it, position yourself on the opposite side of the bead you're trying to release, and pull. Try a trigger clamp across the rolled tire and opposite wall instead of manually pulling.


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

ericm979 said:


> ...I still can't get the tire off. I tried dribbing some soapy water along the bead, still wasn't enough. Then I tried using a broad thin motorcycle tire iron. I can move the bead away from the rim wall a bit but not over the retension hump. Can't get a plastic tire iron in there.
> 
> I've about run out of options other than cutting off a brand new tire. I'm regretting getting rims with bead retension now.


Eric - Here's my very inelegant solution to dealing with tire beads that are disinclined to release and break loose.

1. The key is having enough tire pressure to prevent the tire sidewall from collapsing too much when you push on it, but not enough to hold the tire on. The tire should have enough air that when you push on the sidewall it does not completely buckle.

2. I also remove the brake rotors (quick and easy since mine are center lock) to prevent them from getting damaged.

3. Put a pad of towels over the tire/rim and kneel on it to hold it down.

4. Use a hard blunt object to press down the tire sidewall close to the rim. I use the handle of a hammer (!) and push down on the hammer head. A hammer with a rubber grip on the handle is ideal since the base will grab the sidewall better than a wood handle.

5. Do this in a couple of spot a few inches apart, flip the wheel over and repeat on the other side.

Yes, it's clumsy, but it has worked so far with several tires. I've only done it in my garage, not in the field since I don't usually carry a hammer on rides.  I'll have to improvise if I need to do this in the field (with a shoe, pump handle, stick, rock...)

Despite the hassles, I like the fact that a bead lock reduces the likelihood of burping a tire. I had a nasty crash a few years ago due to a tire burping so I can appreciate a solid tire mount (though perhaps not so solid as these particular LB rims).


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## chumanji9 (Mar 7, 2013)

My LB rims locks on the beads like a pit bull as well. Especially with Maxxis tires. My Kenda and Specialize tires are easier to get off. Anyway, what I do is similar to what others mentioned. Before doing anything I would let the tires bake in the sun for a while. This is to soften and hopefully expand the tires a bit. Than, I use a C-Clamp to push the bead off. I also wrap the c-clamp with electrical tape to avoid scratching the rim.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

levity said:


> Yep, thanks, I've done that with some success (5.10 Freerider shoes work), but it's best done with two people and has a greater risk of damaging the wheel. Tires with stiffer sidewalls seem easier to pry off this way, but those with supple side walls just give without releasing the bead.


That's why you need very stiff SPD shoes/boots or just use your bare feet IME. I haven't had any success with normal shoes like 5.10s or anything of the sort.


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## ericm979 (Sep 25, 2013)

levity said:


> 1. The key is having enough tire pressure to prevent the tire sidewall from collapsing too much when you push on it, but not enough to hold the tire on.
> 
> 4. Use a hard blunt object to press down the tire sidewall close to the rim. I use the handle of a hammer (!) and push down on the hammer head. A hammer with a rubber grip on the handle is ideal since the base will grab the sidewall better than a wood handle..


Thanks, those two tricks did it. I also lubed the bead section I was working on and let the tire warm up in front of a space heater.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

VitaliT said:


> Interested in this rims but I cannot find them in LB shop, is they available or they are new product proto?


The new plus rims are available. We have some more work to do on the product filters etc, but here is a direct link to the ad for now.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/production/index.php?page_id=Carbon-beadless-46mm-wide-bicycle-650b-rim-for-27-5-plus-bikes-tubeless-compatible


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

light bicycle said:


> The new plus rims are available. We have some more work to do on the product filters etc, but here is a direct link to the ad for now.
> 
> https://www.lightbicycle.com/produc...b-rim-for-27-5-plus-bikes-tubeless-compatible


Thanks LB, this look close to similar from nextie but 1mm wider.
Own pair ow yours EN928 and I love them, so going to your EN version at some point.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

VitaliT said:


> Thanks LB, this look close to similar from nextie but 1mm wider.
> Own pair ow yours EN928 and I love them, so going to your EN version at some point.


Thanks for your support VitaliT!


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

light bicycle said:


> The new plus rims are available. We have some more work to do on the product filters etc, but here is a direct link to the ad for now.
> 
> https://www.lightbicycle.com/production/index.php?page_id=Carbon-beadless-46mm-wide-bicycle-650b-rim-for-27-5-plus-bikes-tubeless-compatible


Do/are you going to produce these in a 29er version?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Do/are you going to produce these in a 29er version?


We don't have plans for a 29er asymmetric version at this time. Currently we have the 45/50mm wide plus rim.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

light bicycle said:


> We don't have plans for a 29er asymmetric version at this time. Currently we have the 45/50mm wide plus rim.


You should...most of your competitors do...


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Its not a common rim to want. Not a lot of incentive to make a new mold. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

FastBanana said:


> Its not a common rim to want. Not a lot of incentive to make a new mold.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Fair enough. There are other places to get it.

http://www.nextie.net/premium-mountain-plus-NXT29XA45

http://www.carbonbicycle.cc/proshow.php?cid=77&tid=49&id=242#.WGXAeLU8KEd

http://www.eiecarbon.com/A29C39-asymmetric-rim-29er-carbon-mountain-bike-rims.html


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hey MTBR,

If you guys are into cyclocross, we made a new rim which is quite wide. 21mm internally for the clincher version and 22.5mm for the lower pressure hookless version. Both rims are tubeless compatible. These would be fun for a gravel grinder or commuter bike as well.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/Road-b...-aero-clincher-road-disc-brake-available.html


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> You have my order cancellation request in your mailbox.


I should have stuck to my word and cancelled the order. Kartrin assured me the rims were finished that day and would ship soon. I cooled off a bit from my frustration, told him to ship 'em. The rims arrived mid-November, I stuck the box in a corner and figured I would build up the wheels later in the year...

...which was today. I laced the rear wheel without a hitch. Then I pulled the other rim out of the box to lace the front...





















...probably damaged during shipment. At this point, now 6 weeks after the rims were delivered, I doubt I can make a claim :madman:


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Ohhhhhh! That's painful. I feel for you, mang. 

But duuuuude! I woulda had those outta the box within minutes of them being dropped off by the delivery service....but that's how I am with toys. I won't twist the knife further, though. You gotta be pissssssed!

Hope you get a favorable resolution.


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

That looks bad. I don't know how that would pass quality control


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

I think it was the 1/8" of foam packing that failed.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

If the rim is that messed up from shipping I wouldn't ride their rims anyway. Takes some serious weight/force to trash a hoop like that. Was the box crushed, both rims in the same box?

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> I think it was the 1/8" of foam packing that failed.


My rims too had that bs foam packing. It was a joke and expected my rims to be messed up too but they were perfect


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> Was the box crushed, both rims in the same box?


Both rims in the same box. The box didn't appear crushed when I picked it up from the post office, but upon inspection this evening, there is a pair of indentations in the bottom of the box the width of one rim, and the top of the box clearly bowed under pressure.

I have removed the good rim I laced earlier this evening, and am re-lacing the WTB i23 back onto the hub. I'm over it.


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## teamx151 (Jun 24, 2011)

light bicycle said:


> The new plus rims are available. We have some more work to do on the product filters etc, but here is a direct link to the ad for now.
> 
> https://www.lightbicycle.com/production/index.php?page_id=Carbon-beadless-46mm-wide-bicycle-650b-rim-for-27-5-plus-bikes-tubeless-compatible


Any chance you will be making these same wheels for 29+ bikes? Thanks!


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

teamx151 said:


> Any chance you will be making these same wheels for 29+ bikes? Thanks!


See my post from the previous page. Basically they said no.


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## teamx151 (Jun 24, 2011)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> See my post from the previous page. Basically they said no.


Thanks, I saw after posting. It's to bad, because other rim manufactures are building that size and I would like to see a carbon wheel that size.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

teamx151 said:


> Thanks, I saw after posting. It's to bad, because other rim manufactures are building that size and I would like to see a carbon wheel that size.


I know, I like LB's reputation. I would love to be able to order a asymmetrical 29+ wheelset from them...

Nextie offers a really similar rim, and they will build wheelsets too.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

They do make one but it's not asymmetrical;
https://www.lightbicycle.com/Hand-b...s-50mm-wide-beadless-tubeless-compatible.html


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Just got an email from Light Bikes. They've partnered with NOBL to open a north American warehouse and customer service team. Good job Light Bikes and Nobl!

Now the people who refuse to buy Chinese made parts unless they are sold by "western" companies can jump on the bandwagon.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

92gli said:


> Just got an email from Light Bikes. They've partnered with NOBL to open a north American warehouse and customer service team. Good job Light Bikes and Nobl!
> 
> Now the people who refuse to buy Chinese made parts unless they are sold by "western" companies can jump on the bandwagon.


Was excited to get the news, too. Four sets dating back to "early adopter" years with zero problems. Properly built by local bikesmith, oldest pair has over 2000 hours.

Having said that, I can't find individual rim sales on the northamerican site.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Yes, but it seems they will only offer I9 hubs. Blah.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Yes, but it seems they will only offer I9 hubs. Blah.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Ditto. I want rims with discounted shipping, not expensive wheelsets costing $600 more than my own handbuilts.


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> Yes, but it seems they will only offer I9 hubs. Blah.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Not only that but only Asymmetrical Rims only too. This is just the beginning. Id imagine them having more options in the future. It a nice move though.

Got a month so far on my rims and i couldnt be happier with the build and performance. This is my christmas present with LB rims with Hadleys, DB black Sapim spokes all together with my wheel builder doing the truing and tension was $960 total!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi MTBR,

We have launched our North American location today! The Canadian location is up and running, the US location is starting in March. The Canadian location can start shipping to the US immediately, and there is quite a bit of inventory held, but some customs charges will most likely apply so there is a pre-order option for those wanting guaranteed no duty or customs charges once the US warehouse opens.

Wheel building will happen out of all 3 locations, China, Canada, and USA.

The us.lightbicycle.com website only offers asymmetric I9 wheelsets at the launch but we will certainly add more options like alternate hub options, broader range of our rims (fatbike, road, 38mm MTB rims etc), and the option to purchase rims-only.

For customized orders like 12k weave, glossy finish, custom drilling, then the Chinese factory can handle those orders. The plan is for the North American facility to be able to facilitate custom orders and process through the Chinese factory thus giving North American customers more coverage throughout the day. This will be especially helpful over the coming Chinese New Year vacation which starts next week.

If you have any more questions about the North American operation, feel free to send an e-mail at [email protected] or explore the new website. We look forward to working with our new team there to keep expanding the products and service capabilities in the near future!


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## kaakku (Nov 14, 2010)

What about Europe? Are you going to expand here as well..?


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

light bicycle said:


> and the option to purchase rims-only.


This is what many want, I'm presuming. Save a lot of money on shipping two rims from China! When this happens the North American site will get my business.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

/\ Me too.
But I'm anticipating the delivered price for bare rims being higher than it currently is. Kind of hope that's not the case because there's more than enough mark-up to keep the prices in the same ballpark and make the partners happy (Plus the "premium" for the better customer service people will be expecting). It's not a coincidence that Light Bikes has been working hard on their branding recently, this is part of moving up-market. We'll see I guess.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Well, you can either have it cheaper or get it faster. Makes sense to me.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk


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## agentsmith (Jan 27, 2010)

westin said:


> This is what many want, I'm presuming. Save a lot of money on shipping two rims from China! When this happens the North American site will get my business.


Only if they don't raise the prices once they are being sold and shipped within the US.


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

light bike, can you say more about your partnership with NOBL? what exactly are you doing together? are they just shipping your rims out of their warehouses, or are you sharing designs, quality control, etc?


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

agentsmith said:


> Only if they don't raise the prices once they are being sold and shipped within the US.


Exactly. Order now to avoid customs/duty fees doesn't sound encouraging to me. Customer service and warranty needs to increase if prices increase, whether direct through a price increase or indirect through other fees.


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

westin said:


> This is what many want, I'm presuming. Save a lot of money on shipping two rims from China! When this happens the North American site will get my business.


I cant imagine cheaper rims at all. If anything, id imagine this is going to make the cost higher.

Lets look at their shipping now. My 2 rims came from china to florida in about 10 days. Shipping cost was $50 and the box was 30x30x4 and 7lbs. Any domestic Shipper is gonna charge at least $15 for that box. Its a large box even if the weight isnt that much.

Now they have to pay for an office. They have to pay for a person to relocate to america. They will probably import using shipping containers which will certainly subject to taxes and tariffs as America makes carbon fiber products domestically too. You'd have to think these extra costs are gonna go into the price of the wheels domestically.

Shipping time will somewhat be reduced as it certainly will be faster domestically then importing from china but how much faster. It can take anywhere from 3-7 days to ship from California to Florida....I guess it will save like 4-6 days in shipping time.

Warranty replacement and customer service will be greatly improved by a move like this but i cant see cost reduction a huge motivation to open up several different offices in several countries.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

agentsmith said:


> Only if they don't raise the prices once they are being sold and shipped within the US.


We anticipate very similar landed pricing by the time the product lands to a customer. the same will be true for rims-only once that program is released.

The Industry 9 wheelsets for example have about the same delivered cost as our DT 240 wheelsets once you look at shipping, tape/valves, payment fees. Our goal is to keep the pricing aggressive but at the same time enhance our service.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

Please add Industry 9 single speed hubs as well.

Although after pricing out a wheel using the new tool, it was not at a price level where I would buy a complete wheel.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ACree said:


> Exactly. Order now to avoid customs/duty fees doesn't sound encouraging to me. Customer service and warranty needs to increase if prices increase, whether direct through a price increase or indirect through other fees.


Hi ACree, We have not made any substantial price increases for launching the North America locations, the pricing is very similar to China all things considered. For the USA pre-orders, it will ship US to US so there will not be any duty charged so the savings can be substantial. There is also offering free domestic shipping, and if you pay in advance there is an additional $50 savings. The North American facilities do not charge "fees" like a paypal fee, the pricing model is very straightforward.

The idea of the pre-order was to prioritize filling those orders first. But once the facility is open, you will still benefit from fast shipping, large inventory, no duty, enhanced warranty turnaround. Customers willing to (potentially) pay duty can order from the Canada location if they like, it is in USD so there are no foreign currency surcharges charged by paypal/credit card.

All customers are still free order from China if they like.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

MikeRock98 said:


> I cant imagine cheaper rims at all. If anything, id imagine this is going to make the cost higher.
> 
> Lets look at their shipping now. My 2 rims came from china to florida in about 10 days. Shipping cost was $50 and the box was 30x30x4 and 7lbs. Any domestic Shipper is gonna charge at least $15 for that box. Its a large box even if the weight isnt that much.
> 
> ...


One thing to mention is that the shipping options will be much stronger with domestic shipping. If the product is in stock (which in most cases it will be), then you could choose overnight shipping if you need something really quick.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ACree said:


> Please add Industry 9 single speed hubs as well.
> 
> Although after pricing out a wheel using the new tool, it was not at a price level where I would buy a complete wheel.


We will be adding other less expensive rims to the equation in the coming months. For single speed I9's those can be ordered, you'd just have to e-mail the North American team to process that.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

hardboiled said:


> light bike, can you say more about your partnership with NOBL? what exactly are you doing together? are they just shipping your rims out of their warehouses, or are you sharing designs, quality control, etc?


Hello,

Sure, no problem. They are building the wheels for us in Canada and will be building wheels for us in the USA as well in the near future. They have expanded their facilities to accommodate our increased volume. Light Bicycle workers are being added as the North American operation grows. They will be trained and managed by their team, but of course will work closely with the Chinese team here also.

We have been working on the integration for quite some time so that we become more familiar with their practices, and them with ours. Their brand has unique products, but there has been some sharing of technology and manufacturing practices. Ultimately, both companies agreed that they can both benefit and grow stronger by working together.


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## Derp (Aug 20, 2013)

edited


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## kevinboyer (Jan 19, 2012)

I, for one, am excited about this new venture. I have been wanting to put carbon wheels on both of my Knolly's for about 6 months, but have put it off for various reasons. This news comes at a perfect time. Once the US site is up and running, I plan on making 2 purchases for rims. Thanks LB :thumbsup:


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

92gli said:


> Just got an email from Light Bikes. They've partnered with NOBL to open a north American warehouse and customer service team. Good job Light Bikes and Nobl!
> 
> Now the people who refuse to buy Chinese made parts unless they are sold by "western" companies can jump on the bandwagon.


That email made me raise my eyebrows for sure - A very interesting partership considering when I first contacted nobl when they were breaking onto the scene, I flat out asked them if their rims were made by light bicycle (as the rim dimensions were practically identical at the time). Got a big no on that.

Now they are teamed up?


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Ohhhhhh! That's painful. I feel for you, mang.
> 
> But duuuuude! I woulda had those outta the box within minutes of them being dropped off by the delivery service....but that's how I am with toys. I won't twist the knife further, though. You gotta be pissssssed!
> 
> Hope you get a favorable resolution.


UPDATE:

Yes, Light-Bicycle has come through with a favorable resolution: they are replacing both rims. Certainly, the crux of the issue was my failure to inspect both rims when I received the shipment, and the timeliness to discover the damaged rim and report this to LB. I fully expected to be told to pound sand, and would have had no animosity towards LB if that was their decision; but, they didn't.

Thank you, LB!


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## Titus Boy (Mar 29, 2010)

Has anyone done a build using Industry Nine system hubs and straight pull i9 spokes? 

I've got Ultralights currently with Crests but they are a little twitchy cornering which have the 2.5 or 2.3mm spokes.

Speaking with i9 and they discourage it due to spoke hole spacing tolerances. If anyone could clear this up I'll probably place an order.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey all, I'm trying to decide between a few different light bicycle rims and hoping for some guidance. 

First up I'm around 87kg all kitted up. 

150mm 27.5" ibis hd3 bike.

Mainly ride trails, all mountain and some enduro events. 

Currently I have Stans Flow MK3 rims. 

So tossing up between -
RM650BC13
RM650BC05

I'd prefer the 30mm or less ID as tend to run 2.35 tyres mainly and don't want to square them off or have extra weight in unnecessary width. 

But I think the 38mm ones are going to be stronger?

Thanks
Joel

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Hey all, I'm trying to decide between a few different light bicycle rims and hoping for some guidance.
> 
> First up I'm around 87kg all kitted up.
> 
> ...


What tires do you find yourself using the most?


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Minion DHF up front and Aggressors on the rear. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

The 38/31.6mm profiles 2.35 Schwalbe tires beautifully. I haven't run a Minion yet but I happen to have a new 2.4 Ardent on the rear right now and it's not squared off. It actually lets the sidewalls out a bit so the tread takes on a nice rounded profile. This is on 26" but I just built some 35mm i.d. 29'r wheels and get nearly identical results. 

Just food for thought. If I did it again, I'd stick with the 38/31.6 hoops.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Hey all, I'm trying to decide between a few different light bicycle rims and hoping for some guidance.
> 
> First up I'm around 87kg all kitted up.
> 
> ...


Hi Joel,

The 35mm rims have more compliance than the 38's and are quite a bit lighter, but the 38's are going to take more abuse if you're worried about that.

The happy medium is going to be the AM728's as the 28mm internal width is going to work perfectly for 2.3-ish tires. You have to be more selective about your tires with the 38's. These rival the 38's as far as impact resistance goes and feel a bit more neutral as they are not overly deep (but still much stiffer and more responsive than your current rims).

Some might find the 2.3 Minion a bit too square on the 38's, that's personal preference. You can get a 2.4" Minion which works well on the 38's though because it's a bit rounder of a profile. I don't think this is even listed as a tubeless version so a lot of people probably skip over it, but they actually work just fine tubeless.


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## Steve_MTB_22 (Jan 22, 2016)

Thinking about building up some AM733 wheels for my IBIS HD3. I weigh 215 lbs. Ride trail, AM, and some limited Enduro runs a couple time per year. Will hit lift access bike parks 2 times per year not an extreme rider by any means. Wheels will see about 1K of riding per year. Few Questions:

Was wondering about durability of the I9 hub vs. DT Swiss 240? My current Hope Pro4s had an issues at about 6 months...maybe was a fluke.

Where to draw the line between the EN733 and AM733? With my weight is the AM733 a risk as I would prefer lighter weight wheel if possible.

If I want to go DT Swiss does that rule out a US build?

If I go DT Swiss what extra fees would I pay shipping to US. Can I change the POE to the higher count or do I have to do an upgrade later?

Is there any coupons available?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Steve_MTB_22 said:


> Thinking about building up some AM733 wheels for my IBIS HD3. I weigh 215 lbs. Ride trail, AM, and some limited Enduro runs a couple time per year. Will hit lift access bike parks 2 times per year not an extreme rider by any means. Wheels will see about 1K of riding per year. Few Questions:
> 
> Was wondering about durability of the I9 hub vs. DT Swiss 240? My current Hope Pro4s had an issues at about 6 months...maybe was a fluke.
> 
> ...


Hi Steve,

From the sounds of it the AM733's would work great for you.

The US operation is now offering Industry Nine and Onyx wheelsets. The DT and I9 hubs are both quite reliable (similar durability), we find there are less issues with these compared to the less expensive Hope hubs. The bearing quality seems to be better in the more expensive hubs for sure. If you want 240's you'd have to order from the Chinese site.

I'm not sure if we have any of the 36T or 54T star ratchets left in stock, you could check with customer service [email protected] when you order. There would be an up-charge for this.

For the US site, there is a pre-order going on until the end of the month for $50 off and free shipping on all Onyx and Industry Nine asymmetric wheelsets. No coupon code required, just be sure to click the Pre-Order product page.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

Please take note if you order direct from China factory. If they don't have ex-stock, the rims will take more than 12 days to make, exclude shipping time. Ordered mine on 13 Feb, still waiting for shipment. Their production has overloaded. No idea when they will ship my rims, going to miss my ride.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

*USA wheel building and warehouse now open!*


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> View attachment 1126335
> View attachment 1126332
> View attachment 1126329
> View attachment 1126319
> ...


Are your onyx hubs the same ones you use for your nobl wheel builds?


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

LB you should offer Onyx hub on your custom wheels. now it’s helping only US customers.
but there is also rest of world

ordered pair of AM740 rims and going to lace them to onyx hubs.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

006_007 said:


> Are your onyx hubs the same ones you use for your nobl wheel builds?


Onyx is a brand like DT Swiss- why would they be different?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

VitaliT said:


> LB you should offer Onyx hub on your custom wheels. now it's helping only US customers.
> but there is also rest of world
> 
> ordered pair of AM740 rims and going to lace them to onyx hubs.


We can ship internationally from us.lightbicycle.com


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## DOrellana (Mar 24, 2016)

Nobl has a hub made using Onyx internals with their own hub shell design and front axle system.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

DOrellana said:


> Nobl has a hub made using Onyx internals with their own hub shell design and front axle system.


Those are marked with the Nobl brand on the hubs. The picture shows Onyx hubs.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Onyx is a brand like DT Swiss- why would they be different?


Because NOBL uses ONYX hubs that they have modified.

In the past, I have asked NOBL if they are using wheels manufactured by light bicycle - received negative resposnse - even though their rims looked very similar.

Saw that NOBL was using a modified/lighter version of an onyx hub

Now see that NOBL is teamed up selling light bicycle wheels with onyx hubs, and am asking if they are the same modified version.

Not that far of a stretch seeing as the guy that runs nobl appears to be affiliated with light bicycle.


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## Derp (Aug 20, 2013)

006_007 said:


> Because NOBL uses ONYX hubs that they have modified.
> 
> In the past, I have asked NOBL if they are using wheels manufactured by light bicycle - received negative resposnse - even though their rims looked very similar.
> 
> ...


LB and Nobl are the exact same rims made in the same factory using different decals.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

RM29C14 Heavy Duty Version. Build with Chris King Hubs Boost


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Thanks to LB for getting the US office open on time! I got my AM928 rims today, shipped from Minnesota. Nice change to not have to pay extra for and worry about the trip around the world, and the pre-order special was extra nice. My new Onyx hubs showed up last week, time to order some spokes!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Derp said:


> LB and Nobl are the exact same rims made in the same factory using different decals.


That is not true.

Nobl did sell some of our rims quite a few years ago when they were first starting out. They have never put their name on any of our rims.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> Those are marked with the Nobl brand on the hubs. The picture shows Onyx hubs.





006_007 said:


> Because NOBL uses ONYX hubs that they have modified.
> 
> In the past, I have asked NOBL if they are using wheels manufactured by light bicycle - received negative resposnse - even though their rims looked very similar.
> 
> ...


See post above yours


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Updates!

There are now 20 different rims stocked at the US location. Some of the EN and Heavy Duty version of the rims as well as our less expensive products are now in stock. You can get our complete carbon wheels on Industry Nine Wheelsets DELIVERED from $1077.10, or $1,139.10 on Onyx hubs (any color).

Our North American website us.lightbicycle.com now changes to Canadian pricing automatically for customers located in Canada. An expanded MTB lineup is in transit to the Canadian location.

On the International site, you can use our compare tool to look at the variances between rims: https://www.lightbicycle.com/product-compare/Rim-strength-comparison-on-29ER.html

We're always working to improve our websites and products, if you have any suggestions on what you'd like to see from us, please send us a private e-mail to [email protected] or [email protected]

Thank you!!


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

light bicycle said:


> Updates!
> 
> There are now 20 different rims stocked at the US location. Some of the EN and Heavy Duty version of the rims as well as our less expensive products are now in stock. You can get our complete carbon wheels on Industry Nine Wheelsets DELIVERED from $1077.10, or $1,139.10 on Onyx hubs (any color).
> 
> ...


Not specifically in the market at the moment, but I'd love to see some DT 350 options, just to save some money.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Light Bicycle, any plans in the works for adding a drain hole in the rims like so many others do for great reason? So much water build up inside my last set of L-B hoops. I won't build with them again but will in a heart beat if a drain is added.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

garcia said:


> Not specifically in the market at the moment, but I'd love to see some DT 350 options, just to save some money.


We stock the DT 350 hubs at our Chinese office and can ship worldwide. For now, the US/Canada operation is not offering DT Swiss hubs.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Light Bicycle, any plans in the works for adding a drain hole in the rims like so many others do for great reason? So much water build up inside my last set of L-B hoops. I won't build with them again but will in a heart beat if a drain is added.


I think we could add a drain hole for you if you mention that in the notes at checkout or e-mail [email protected] to place the order. We have to add a bit of reinforcement so the lead time would be a bit longer.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Having DT Swiss hubs at US ops would be great if they are cheaper than Hope. I've been scared out of Novatech hubs after reading around the internets :/

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## phride (Sep 14, 2015)

DT Swiss hubs are more expensive than Hope.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Tikiguy (Nov 18, 2010)

Edit: Knee jerk response to pricing, Apologies LB



light bicycle said:


> Updates!
> 
> There are now 20 different rims stocked at the US location. Some of the EN and Heavy Duty version of the rims as well as our less expensive products are now in stock. You can get our complete carbon wheels on Industry Nine Wheelsets DELIVERED from $1077.10, or $1,139.10 on Onyx hubs (any color).
> 
> ...


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

The $1077.10 price example mentioned was using the 27mm wide 27.5" rims on I9 hubs with the $35 flat rate shipping option from the US wheel building warehouse. The price will vary depending on which rims you build with. Also, Sapim Race and D-Light spokes are used for standard builds with CX-Rays having an extra charge. But yes, it's a good price for sure


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## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

I just went and looked at the LB us website and to build a wheel set-- onyx and sapim race/D-light spokes are not offered as a option...


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi SB Trails,

We have those options for every wheelset, can you send me a private message with a link of which page is not working? If you scroll down when selecting the build options, you should see this:


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## chumanji9 (Mar 7, 2013)

Looking for spoke length for my rear wheel. I have the RM650BC13, 38mm, 27.5 version rim with DT240S J-Bend hub, 142mm. When I purchase it a yr ago, it came with a few spares...wish I measure them before using them up. Does anyone know what the correct length are?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

chumanji9 said:


> Looking for spoke length for my rear wheel. I have the RM650BC13, 38mm, 27.5 version rim with DT240S J-Bend hub, 142mm. When I purchase it a yr ago, it came with a few spares...wish I measure them before using them up. Does anyone know what the correct length are?


If it's a 6-bolt disc, 32h 3-cross, go with 261mm on both sides ideally.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> If it's a 6-bolt disc, 32h 3-cross, go with 261mm on both sides ideally.


Wondering how you came up w/ 261mm. The LB site shows ERD = 536mm for this rim, and the DT spoke calculator shows 259mm spoke using the hub you assume @chuman is using (32H IS 3X) and a 536mm ERD. So you're using an ERD of 539 or 540 rather than the 536 that is spec'd?

Also wondering why @chuman is "using up" spokes.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> Wondering how you came up w/ 261mm. The LB site shows ERD = 536mm for this rim, and the DT spoke calculator shows 259mm spoke using the hub you assume @chuman is using (32H IS 3X) and a 536mm ERD. So you're using an ERD of 539 or 540 rather than the 536 that is spec'd?
> 
> Also wondering why @chuman is "using up" spokes.


260's should be fine as well, I tend to go a little longer in case the nipples have a larger head. I used a bit larger ERD as the one listed on the Chinese site is measure on nipple bed to nipple bed. The North American site lists 3 ERD's depending on how your calculator looks at ERD and depending on what nipples you use. https://us.lightbicycle.com/shop/27-5-rm650bc13-38mm-carbon-rim/


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

Wow, light is active here. Got questions but not for my MTB


Can you get in Hope road hubs ? Wanting RRU45TO2 wheels , 20 spoke front 24 spoke rear, rim brake setup and on Hope hubs. Is it possible ?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

terrasmak said:


> Wow, light is active here. Got questions but not for my MTB
> 
> Can you get in Hope road hubs ? Wanting RRU45TO2 wheels , 20 spoke front 24 spoke rear, rim brake setup and on Hope hubs. Is it possible ?


I don't think we have any Hope road hubs, we mostly sell DT240/350's or Bitex as cheap/light option with reasonable durability. I'll inquire about getting the Hope's for you.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

I tried searching the thread and on the forum but didn't find much. How is the ride quality of these wheels on rough terrain? I'm looking at the 650BC05 (30mm internal width) rims. If anyone is using the asymmetrical version (AM728), i'd like to hear ride quality comments on that too.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

matadorCE said:


> How is the ride quality of these wheels on rough terrain?


Carbon rims are stiffer than aluminum rims, but you don't really get vertical compliance out of rims, if you did, things would go bad quickly. You'll get faster accelerations, possibly a little less compliance, but that's the sort that is made up with grips and tires.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Carbon rims are stiffer than aluminum rims, but you don't really get vertical compliance out of rims, if you did, things would go bad quickly. You'll get faster accelerations, possibly a little less compliance, but that's the sort that is made up with grips and tires.


I know that they're stiffer than alloy but not all carbon wheels ride the same. Enves have developed a reputation for being too harsh on rough terrain, for example.


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## chumanji9 (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for the reply on the spoke length, Lightbicycle and InertiaMan... BTW, the reason I am using spokes is because I kept snapping nipples. Turns out the nipples on my bike has oxidized. I am guessing its cause by the water crossing on my trails. I am rebuilding with brass version this time.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

chumanji9 said:


> Thanks for the reply on the spoke length, Lightbicycle and InertiaMan... BTW, the reason I am using spokes is because I kept snapping nipples. Turns out the nipples on my bike has oxidized. I am guessing its cause by the water crossing on my trails. I am rebuilding with brass version this time.


Were those alu nipples anodized?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

matadorCE said:


> I know that they're stiffer than alloy but not all carbon wheels ride the same. Enves have developed a reputation for being too harsh on rough terrain, for example.


To which I say BS, unless there is a scientific test that can prove otherwise.


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## justinnardella (Jun 23, 2016)

When the dt swiss spoke calc asks for ERD, should I enter the bed to bed ERD? Or one of the other ERDs. (I am looking on the US website). 


And I am trying to decide between the RM29C07 and the RM29C14. Seems a bit odd to me that the c07 is stiffer from side to side yet more vertically compliant (according to the comparison charts on the normal LB site). Isn't the the U-shape profile of the c14 supposed to be stronger overall than the more traditional profile of the c07? 

I am really leaning towards the c07 as I ride both enduro and xc on the same bike, and the c07 is considerably lighter imo. Any recommendations? 


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Jayem said:


> To which I say BS, unless there is a scientific test that can prove otherwise.


Why would this be so far fetched? Not all carbon frames ride the same, and "feel" is subjective anyway. I've ridden Enves on demo bikes, and haven't felt them that much different than my alloy rims but then again this was at demos so I wasn't ridding those bikes as I'd ride mine.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

matadorCE said:


> Why would this be so far fetched? Not all carbon frames ride the same, and "feel" is subjective anyway. I've ridden Enves on demo bikes, and haven't felt them that much different than my alloy rims but then again this was at demos so I wasn't ridding those bikes as I'd ride mine.


Because there are too many variables to say it's the rim and carbon layups on rims are fairly simple. As was stated in another thread, if rims are flexing this much, then spokes would be snapping left and right. This isn't where you get to work seatstays and chainstay shapes to promote bending in one direction vs. another, you are "fixed" in the profile with a carbon rim, it's the same all around, because it has to travel in a circle. I would say that people perceive the increased "harshness" due to increased torsional and lateral rigidity, not vertical compliance or a lack of.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

justinnardella said:


> When the dt swiss spoke calc asks for ERD, should I enter the bed to bed ERD? Or one of the other ERDs. (I am looking on the US website).
> 
> And I am trying to decide between the RM29C07 and the RM29C14. Seems a bit odd to me that the c07 is stiffer from side to side yet more vertically compliant (according to the comparison charts on the normal LB site). Isn't the the U-shape profile of the c14 supposed to be stronger overall than the more traditional profile of the c07?
> 
> ...


The bed to bed measurement should work for nipples with regular heads, but you should add to the ERD (2 or 3mm depending on the nipple) if you are using nipples with raised heads.

If you use alloy, definitely used a nipple with a raised head and preferably Sapim nipples. Sapim uses a harder 7075 alloy, are anodized and heat treated so they are significantly stronger and have good corrosion resistance.

The 29C07's flex laterally 9.8mm compared to 10.8mm for the 29C14's at the same pressure. The vertical stiffness deformation is more significant though (the 29C14's are quite a bit stiffer) so you will definitely feel more wheel stiffness on the 29C14's.

Yes, the U-shaped profile coupled with a thicker bead area make the 29C14's stronger. We changed the fibre orientation on the 29C14's to make them with less vertical stiffness so it can help to absorb impacts and not be overly stiff. Whereas we tweaked the layup on the 29C07's to be stiffer than is the case with our standard layup because with that mold the design would normally lack a reasonable amount of stiffness. The mold shape and design is only one part of what makes a rim behave a certain way, the actual layup design plays a large part.

I would go with the 29C07's if you aren't really hard on rims and prefer a more natural feel, but still want the benefits of carbon (ease of tubeless setup, increased stiffness, decreased weight...) The 29C14's are better if you want something with more wheel stiffness and is more on the enduro side of the spectrum.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

light bicycle said:


> We changed the fibre orientation on the 29C14's to make them with less vertical stiffness so it can help to absorb impacts and not be overly stiff.


Can you provide more detail here? How much deflection are measuring? Are you testing with or without spokes?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The actual measurement is mostly meaningless. How much does a Stan's Flow deflect compared to the new Mark 3? Or what about a WTB i29? What forces are you pushing onto the wheel/rim/tire? How does this relate to your own specific riding style and terrain? 

Wheel stiffness gets compensated, (mostly) through suspension tweaks. But if they say they have softened the wheel without sacrificing strength, or lateral rigidity, then I say "Technological advancement is fantastic"! I love my 650b, 38mm external rims. I had to adjust some settings to dial them in but Technological Advancements, in increments, are what makes us faster, every day. Directional orientation of the fibers is one of those incremental improvements.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Prophet Julio said:


> The actual measurement is mostly meaningless.


Disagree. If the difference is 0.5mm vs. 0.7mm for an assembled wheel, then I'd argue that assessing vertical stiffness is a waste of time. Likewise if they're testing the rim by itself. Even with a carbon rim, spokes overwhelmingly provide the vertical support. Alloy rims that you could crush in your hands unassembled have almost no vertical deflection when part of a wheel.

That rim/wheel differentiation isn't as true for lateral stiffness. The rim contributes much more to that, so a rim-only measurement would actually have some utility (albeit less than one that compared rims via wheels with the same spoke and hub configuration).


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

You are correct when you say that the spokes take the force. They take it all and distribute it to the rest of the rim/spoke combination (wheel). BUT carbon fiber rims are stiffer. They do change the vertical transmission of force to the suspension. There is less spoke tension variability on a CF wheel. However the "feel" is something that is subjective and I believe that the actual deformation number might be interesting, but still meaningless within the void of information regarding terrain, tire size, riding style and suspension. Oh, and wheel build... Do you have an algorithm that needs this data? I know that 28 spoke, light, 23mm internal aluminum rims are completely different than the 32 spoke, carbon fiber, 32mm internal rims that I have now. I do not know the actual difference in numerical analysis with regards to vertical or lateral stability. It is a big difference. But the incremental change from a CF hoop to another CF hoop is minimal and only marginally noticeable. The precise measurement is not useful unless the same information about other rims is also available.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Prophet Julio said:


> I do not know the actual difference in numerical analysis [between carbon and alloy] with regards to vertical or lateral stability. It is a big difference.


To build on an earlier post by Jayem, if we tested the vertical stiffness of a wheel in isolation and construed lower numbers to mean better ride quality, I don't believe CF would differ noticeably from alloy. The absolute deflection numbers are so low that, absent tires, they'd both ride horribly stiff.

However, ride quality might differ if we subjected the wheel to more realistic combined vertical and lateral forces, and accounted for CF's ability to maintain a more consistent rim shape after lateral impacts. A rim that's noodling all over the place isn't passing the full acceleration of a wheel impact to the rider. It would feel vague first, and perhaps, depending on the tire, a bit smoother. Put a clyde on a Crest and this is what I would expect to hear.

This is all a long way of saying: I'm not convinced compliance on the vertical axis engineered into a rim means anything, because I don't think you can make a wheel compliant (independent of a tire) unless you introduce undesirable lateral weakness.

This may be wrong. I'd welcome some technical input from LB on the background for that decision.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

terrasmak said:


> Wow, light is active here. Got questions but not for my MTB
> 
> Can you get in Hope road hubs ? Wanting RRU45TO2 wheels , 20 spoke front 24 spoke rear, rim brake setup and on Hope hubs. Is it possible ?


Hope road hubs are not in stock, we can get them from another company in about 5 days if you wanted to special order that. You can send an e-mail to [email protected] with your request and then we can send you an invoice link directly. Thank you!


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## chumanji9 (Mar 7, 2013)

zephxiii said:


> Were those alu nipples anodized?


Yes, they were black anodized.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

alexdi said:


> Can you provide more detail here? How much deflection are measuring? Are you testing with or without spokes?


There are a lot of variables with measuring wheel stiffness on a built wheel. We measure a raw rim so we do not have other factors influencing the results. For most tests we apply 50kg/f at a specific and controlled rate of speed. We perform the same test 4 times on the rim and rotate 90 degrees each time and then record the average result and also make note of any spikes. We can get vertical results ranging from 2mm up to 10mm in vertical deformation with the same amount of force, and from 6mm and up to 20mm of lateral deformation with various rims.

I mentioned the vertical difference on these rims was pretty significant, on average it's 6.5mm for the RM29C14's versus 8.5mm for the RM29C07's. I know 2mm doesn't sound like a lot, but keep in mind you do not get as large of vertical deformation at the relatively low pressure and speed the machine is testing at. 2mm of variance on these rims is very noticeable to a discerning rider when all wheel build factors are identical and only the rim is different.

We build wheels using the same build specifications but with different rim layup designs and have them test ridden. The rider feedback helps to reassure our mechanical findings before finalizing a given design or design change.

We have performed thousands of theses tests on all of our carbon rims, so we have a lot of comparison data to look at. When we change any of our layup schedules, they go through many non-destructive and also destructive tests (similar but with more speed and more and more pressure until the rim breaks for example). You would be surprised how much changing the orientation of the fibres and the actual layup design influences the test results. For the 29C14's we are able to get the rim to flex more during ultimate vertical stress tests and the same change achieves better blunt impact tests on a built wheel, so at that point it makes sense to change the layup schedule. We can fine tune the layup and change the vertical behaviour without reducing the lateral stiffness results.


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

light bicycle said:


> Hope road hubs are not in stock, we can get them from another company in about 5 days if you wanted to special order that. You can send an e-mail to [email protected] with your request and then we can send you an invoice link directly. Thank you!


Email sent , but had to correct your email address lol


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Many people tend to forget adjusting their suspension. If there's a weight difference after changing wheels, suspension usually needs to be adjusted.
This alone could make a ride feel "harsh".



Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Because there are too many variables to say it's the rim and carbon layups on rims are fairly simple. As was stated in another thread, if rims are flexing this much, then spokes would be snapping left and right. This isn't where you get to work seatstays and chainstay shapes to promote bending in one direction vs. another, you are "fixed" in the profile with a carbon rim, it's the same all around, because it has to travel in a circle. I would say that people perceive the increased "harshness" due to increased torsional and lateral rigidity, not vertical compliance or a lack of.


Vertical compliance in wheels is something that is commonly talked in about in road and mtb so not sure why u r downplaying it.

Also are u not aware of Stan's carbon rims which have vertical compliance designed in? They have a little info page about it.

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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

zephxiii said:


> Also are u not aware of Stan's carbon rims which have vertical compliance designed in? They have a little info page about it.


I can't really take anything from Stans seriously, so no, not really.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Thank you for this detail. It's unusual to see this sort of transparency, I appreciate it.



light bicycle said:


> 2mm of variance on these rims is very noticeable to a discerning rider when all wheel build factors are identical and only the rim is different.


For reasons I've expressed above, it would be useful to know how significant this difference is when the rim is part of a wheel. If the tire is deflecting 30mm, how noticeable can 2mm of rim deflection (or presumably much less for an actual wheel) be?

Also, have you found the speed of the impact matters in your testing?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

zephxiii said:


> Vertical compliance in wheels is something that is commonly talked in about in road and mtb so not sure why u r downplaying it.
> 
> Also are u not aware of Stan's carbon rims which have vertical compliance designed in? They have a little info page about it.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Vertical compliance is talked about, but more often than not the talk is grossly inaccurate BS. The idea that a wheel can provide desirable vertical compliance is a myth that has be debunked repeatedly. The Stan's video you reference shows a potential failure mode for rims. Designing a rim to survive such an impact is desirable; designing a rim to intentionally "flex" for the benefit of ride quality is an entirely different matter, and one that is essentially not achievable, because the vertical flexibility of the pre-stressed structure of a bicycle wheel is determined almost exclusively by the spoke tension.

Two suggestions for you:

a) do some reading on the physics of biccyle wheels. A decent, concise overview at Nox Wheel Building Philosophy and Other Info | Nox Composites
and another MTBR thread (one of many) on this topic here: http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/wheel-flex-video-996995.html

b) give some thought to how a rider could conceivably feel the "give" of a rim. You have 100mm to 160mm of suspension happening. On top of that you have a deformable air bladder (aka tire) that can yield up to 40mm or more. Even the rubber itself can move 2mm or so under compression. Now, thru ALL of that movement . . . you really think that riders can "feel" the tenth of a millimeter difference in vertical deflection of a wheel?? (and that .1mm is under an unrealistic 3G load . . . trust me, what a rider is feeling at that point is NOT the micro deflection of a rim/wheel).


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

alexdi said:


> light bicycle said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the U-shaped profile coupled with a thicker bead area make the 29C14's stronger. We changed the fibre orientation on the 29C14's to make them with less vertical stiffness so it can help to absorb impacts and not be overly stiff.
> ...


@alexdi,
Your observations and comments are spot-on. I agree with your statements in the thread here.

I'm less impressed w/ the @light-bicycle comments. I suspect what we have here is a marketing person doing their best to communicate engineering objectives/data. And they _almost _got it right. Engineering the layup to provide sufficient flexibility to survive a major rock strike (or similar bottom-out scenario that completely de-tensions the spokes) is a good thing, and most of what @light-bicycle describes above relates to that attribute. But to suggest that part of the engineering objective was to contribute to ride quality by increasing vertical compliance of an unlaced rim is utter BS. No way an actual engineer -- from LB, or Nobl, or Nox, or Stan's -- would ever directly support such a statement. Whether they are cynical enough to stay silent while they watch marketing people assert such things? Well, my bet is yes, they will yawn and go back to the CAD work.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

So no one has any feedback about how these carbon rims ride compared to other brands? All the poetic/scientific waxing aside, I'm looking for rider impressions/opinions on rough terrain.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

light bicycle said:


> I mentioned the vertical difference on these rims was pretty significant, on average it's 6.5mm for the RM29C14's versus 8.5mm for the RM29C07's. I know 2mm doesn't sound like a lot, but keep in mind you do not get as large of vertical deformation at the relatively low pressure and speed the machine is testing at. *2mm of variance on these rims is very noticeable to a discerning rider* when all wheel build factors are identical and only the rim is different.


I call BS on the portion I *bolded *above. First of all, a rider will almost never experience that deflection, and if/when they do, it will be under such severe circumstances that they will be facing far more dramatic "feelings" than 2mm of rim movement. The deflection figures you are comparing are from an unlaced rim. On the trail, the same deflection would require a major force that would bottom out the suspension and the tires simultaneously, resulting in the total detensioning of the relevant spokes. And during that massive G-out or cased jump or direct rock impact at 30mph or whatever, do you really think this "discerning rider" is making a mental note of 2mm of rim movement, and how it influences his ride quality??? Or are they trying to hold on, not crash, and generally survive the situation?

I could potentially believe that a rare rider could distinguish the larger cross section RM29C14 rim from a RM29C07 rim in a blind test ride, assuming the wheels are built to identical pattern and tension with identical tires at identical PSI. I'm skeptical this is true, but I will allow the possibility. However, the differences they would potentially feel are NOT from vertical compliance under worst-case wheel deformation . . . it would be from lateral stiffness, or slightly wider bead position. More likely, it would be from placebo effect.

Having said all that, I do think its great to see confirmation that LB is doing extensive testing and data collection on the rims. I ride your rims, I like your rims. I just caution you against making non-technical interpretations of technical data and asserting them as fact. And re-think whether you want to be on the riders-CAN-feel-vertical-compliance-of-wheels side of this debate.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

matadorCE said:


> I tried searching the thread and on the forum but didn't find much. How is the ride quality of these wheels on rough terrain? I'm looking at the 650BC05 (30mm internal width) rims. If anyone is using the asymmetrical version (AM728), i'd like to hear ride quality comments on that too.





matadorCE said:


> I know that they're stiffer than alloy but not all carbon wheels ride the same. Enves have developed a reputation for being too harsh on rough terrain, for example.





matadorCE said:


> Why would this be so far fetched? Not all carbon frames ride the same, and "feel" is subjective anyway. I've ridden Enves on demo bikes, and haven't felt them that much different than my alloy rims but then again this was at demos so I wasn't ridding those bikes as I'd ride mine.





matadorCE said:


> So no one has any feedback about how these carbon rims ride compared to other brands? All the poetic/scientific waxing aside, I'm looking for rider impressions/opinions on rough terrain.


What you're being told is that what you're looking for doesn't exist. But you still want to find it.

You seem to be missing the point of the "waxing." You're asking for opinions about something that doesn't exist: discernible differences in "ride quality" on "rough terrain" among wheels that differ only in their carbon layup.

Lateral stiffness can vary substantially between alloy rim wheels and carbon rim wheels, and that variability can be felt on the trail. Apparently some riders prefer less lateral stiffness than others, at least if you believe the Jared Graves comments. If you want a noodle-y wheel, then pick your alloy rim, keep your spoke bracing angles low (avoid Boost!), etc. Have fun.

But if you believe more lateral stiffness and more strength in the wheel is generally all good, and you're trying to pick a carbon rim, then make your choice based on rim width versus your intended tire choices, price, reputation/data suggesting the rim is well engineered, reported ease of tubeless seating, customer service / replacement policy in the case of failure or damage, preference/familiarity to your preferred wheel builder, spoke hole design (reinforced?), etc.

The myth of ride quality should literally NOT be on the list, and you seem to be putting it at the top. Suggesting that one carbon wheel feels harsher than another carbon wheel of similar design is BS . . . control all the other variables (terrain, speed, rim width, tire, lacing pattern, tensions) and then vary the tire PSI by 0.25 and you will produce WAY more vertical compliance than is contributed by the rims/wheels during any typical aggressive riding.

But let me give a direct response to your question: I've ridden the sh&^ out of multiple LB and Nextie rims on all sorts of chunky terrain, and I've never felt any undesirable ride quality. All the wheels were laced 32H 3X to 110-120kgf tension. My human senses could not detect any "harshness" contributed by the carbon material differences . . . because my senses were being stimulated by 5" of suspension travel and 2.4" of tire carcass.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

InertiaMan said:


> and another MTBR thread (one of many) on this topic here: http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/wheel-flex-video-996995.html


Great video. That's probably the most common failure mode: the load exceeds the spoke tension, the spokes slack, the rim looses lateral stability and, with a relatively small additional load, tacos (alloy) or breaks (carbon).

If you wanted to avert that possibility for large impacts, it seems you could go one of two ways: reduce the rigidity of the rim so it can bend without breaking (Stan's approach above, the default for alloy), or add enough spoke hole reinforcement and hub flange strength to bear spoke tensions that would negate the scenario entirely.

Carbon rims are so much stronger laterally that the overtension-to-taco problem with alloy should be a nonissue. The latter approach, combined with thicker, reinforced bead walls, would yield a very strong wheel.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

alexdi said:


> Great video. That's probably the most common failure mode: the load exceeds the spoke tension, the spokes slack, the rim looses lateral stability and, with a relatively small additional load, tacos (alloy) or breaks (carbon).
> l.


It is pretty cool to actually watch the rim deform and the spokes loosen.

But I can't forgive Stan's marketing-speak garbage that follows, saying this makes for a faster wheel because it maintains more forward momentum. In reality, the type of wheel impact that causes full compression of the tire carcass and completely de-tensions spokes is rare, at least for a properly tensioned wheel and reasonable PSI. Hard to imagine something that is marginally better on events that occur a few times per season -- or even a few times per ride -- amounts to a faster wheel. Utter garbage.

What they should really be marketing is longevity and reliability. Try to sow FUD (fear, uncertainy, doubt) about "generic" carbon rims being more likely to fail because they can't radially deflect without damage. Unfortunately for Stans, the data above from @light-bicycle showing 6.5mm and 8.5mm deflections in routine testing is comparable to the 7mm Stans brags about in the video. So any advantage to Stans is not apparent.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> What you're being told is that what you're looking for doesn't exist. But you still want to find it.
> 
> You seem to be missing the point of the "waxing." You're asking for opinions about something that doesn't exist: discernible differences in "ride quality" on "rough terrain" among wheels that differ only in their carbon layup.
> 
> ...


I know you want to grandstand and pontificate your knowledge about carbon wheels, and by all means have at it but don't use my question as an excuse for doing that. Maybe you're not understanding what I mean by "harshness"? Either way it sounds like you only two data points: LB and Nextie and you feel no negative effects. Thanks for your input.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

matadorCE said:


> I know you want to grandstand and pontificate your knowledge about carbon wheels, and by all means have at it but don't use my question as an excuse for doing that. Maybe you're not understanding what I mean by "harshness"? Either way it sounds like you only two data points: LB and Nextie and you feel no negative effects. Thanks for your input.


Why don't you tell us what you mean by "harshness"? Quantify it. 
And the "two" datapoints are actually 8 or 9 (different models from each maker).

You _literally _asked for comment about differences in ride quality between the AM728 and the 650BC05:


matadorCE said:


> I tried searching the thread and on the forum but didn't find much. How is the ride quality of these wheels on rough terrain? I'm looking at the 650BC05 (30mm internal width) rims. If anyone is using the asymmetrical version (AM728), i'd like to hear ride quality comments on that too.


I've answered with both direct riding experience (coincidentally, I have hundreds of hours on those exact rim cross sections from LB, and there is no discernible difference) and from an engineering/design perspective (there is no physical reason that one should expect any difference).

I'm not grandstanding to show off. But I do hate seeing false myths perpetuated, so I've offered substantial evidence to show that perceived "harshness" due to radial stiffness in wheels is imaginary. My motivation is primarily to offer some clarity to other readers, and secondarily to potentially educate you in response to your questions. Clearly I'm failing on the latter.

So hey, feel free to keep imagining a difference in "harshness" between a carbon rim with ~ 26mmx30mm cross section and one with ~ 28mmx28mm cross section despite the fact that neither of them move radially under normal loads. I'm sure the "better" choice is going to make all the difference in your ride experience.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

InertiaMan said:


> Unfortunately for Stans, the data above from @light-bicycle showing 6.5mm and 8.5mm deflections in routine testing is comparable to the 7mm Stans brags about in the video. So any advantage to Stans is not apparent.


The same force on an alloy rim would probably make it collapse. Maximum compliance!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> I call BS on the portion I *bolded *above. First of all, a rider will almost never experience that deflection, and if/when they do, it will be under such severe circumstances that they will be facing far more dramatic "feelings" than 2mm of rim movement. The deflection figures you are comparing are from an unlaced rim. On the trail, the same deflection would require a major force that would bottom out the suspension and the tires simultaneously, resulting in the total detensioning of the relevant spokes. And during that massive G-out or cased jump or direct rock impact at 30mph or whatever, do you really think this "discerning rider" is making a mental note of 2mm of rim movement, and how it influences his ride quality??? Or are they trying to hold on, not crash, and generally survive the situation?
> 
> I could potentially believe that a rare rider could distinguish the larger cross section RM29C14 rim from a RM29C07 rim in a blind test ride, assuming the wheels are built to identical pattern and tension with identical tires at identical PSI. I'm skeptical this is true, but I will allow the possibility. However, the differences they would potentially feel are NOT from vertical compliance under worst-case wheel deformation . . . it would be from lateral stiffness, or slightly wider bead position. More likely, it would be from placebo effect.
> 
> Having said all that, I do think its great to see confirmation that LB is doing extensive testing and data collection on the rims. I ride your rims, I like your rims. I just caution you against making non-technical interpretations of technical data and asserting them as fact. And re-think whether you want to be on the riders-CAN-feel-vertical-compliance-of-wheels side of this debate.


My note about the 2mm difference had nothing to do with the amount of movement a rider would experience, it is data taken from a standard stiffness test and relating it to our findings on what a rider can notice. We perform other stiffness tests with more pressure, and more speed. I could have revealed a much larger number with that test (30mm for example), but all I was trying to say was that for our standard testing method, I know what numbers a discerning rider can feel. I have personally built more than a thousand carbon wheels, have advanced composite training, and have ridden at least 50 of our carbon wheelsets amongst others and I can feel the stiffness difference between the 2 rims in question once I wind them up to speed on black diamond trails I am familiar with.

As a wheel builder, I realize that there are many other factors to wheel stiffness. It is very plausible that with using identical components at identical tension and using these 2 rims, you would still get a larger gain in wheel stiffness with the 38's due to shorter spokes.

I think the rim stiffness and "compliance" arguments only matter for serious racers who have extensive experience on carbon rims. For the average rider coming off an alloy rim, carbon rims are going to behave significantly different so it's hard to make recommendations sometimes.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

alexdi said:


> To build on an earlier post by Jayem, if we tested the vertical stiffness of a wheel in isolation and construed lower numbers to mean better ride quality, I don't believe CF would differ noticeably from alloy. The absolute deflection numbers are so low that, absent tires, they'd both ride horribly stiff.
> 
> However, ride quality might differ if we subjected the wheel to more realistic combined vertical and lateral forces, and accounted for CF's ability to maintain a more consistent rim shape after lateral impacts. A rim that's noodling all over the place isn't passing the full acceleration of a wheel impact to the rider. It would feel vague first, and perhaps, depending on the tire, a bit smoother. Put a clyde on a Crest and this is what I would expect to hear.
> 
> ...


I should mention that for measuring a given rims vertical stiffness, it is more about improving it's ultimate compression failure result. In other words, we want to increase its ability to flex inward without cracking. Deep and wide rims are inherently stiff and have a greater risk of cracking through the sidewalls under sharp impacts (rim tries to compress briefly). We find that the impact strength improves when we make the stiffer U-shaped wide rims with more vertical flex. The layup change generally isn't noticeable by riders if the side stiffness is already quite high for the given rim, but it does help with impact test results in the lab and in the real world.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

@lightbicycle, for clarity, I agree with 99% of what you've been posting here. Lateral deflection is real, it occurs under normal riding circumstances, and it can be felt by riders. Different rims will have measurably different lateral stiffness, even modestly different carbon rims. No doubt. That's one reason many of us like riding carbon rims, me included.

But that is not what I've been challenging. You made a very specific assertion that 2mm of _vertical _compliance, or more accurately 2mm radial deformation under a given load on an unlaced rim test, can be felt in the resulting built-up wheel by discerning riders, _even if all other parameters are identica_l. To quote:

*"2mm of variance on these rims is very noticeable to a discerning rider when all wheel build factors are identical and only the rim is different."*

That is the statement that I have been challenging. If all other attributes of a wheel are identical (including lateral stiffness), and the only time substantial radial deformation occurs is under worst case impact (when spoke tension goes negative), then what exactly is this discerning rider feeling? In "normal" use (ie, spokes maintain positive tension), even under a significant impact, the actual radial deformation in wheels is approx. 0.1mm to 0.5mm depending on rim material/design. I maintain that difference cannot be felt by any rider.

Virtually all of your supporting observations relate to _lateral _stiffness, not radial. Consider your statement:



light bicycle said:


> As a wheel builder, I realize that there are many other factors to wheel stiffness. It is very plausible that with using identical components at identical tension and using these 2 rims, you would still get a larger gain in wheel stiffness with the 38's due to shorter spokes.


The shorter spokes, assuming identical hubs, yield an increased bracing angle, which would yield a laterally stiffer wheel assuming same spoke count and tensions. And the 38mm rim should be inherently laterally stiffer due to its cross section. So absolutely, I believe that there is a measurable difference in lateral stiffness between these two wheels you mention. And I'll accept on faith your statement that some riders, yourself included, can _feel _the difference in those wheels. But those difference do virtually _nothing _to radial "stiffness"!

Which supports my only point: that any difference in feeling between wheels is NOT due to differences in radial deformation capacity.

If you want to prove that statement false, please show me an experiment with two rims:
1) rim cross section dimensions are identical
2) lateral deformation test values are identical
3) spokes, lacing patterns, hubs and tensions are all identical
4) tires and pressures are identical
5) the sole difference in the rims is a 2mm difference in radial deformation capacity (of the bare rim under test load, not the built wheel), presumably achieved by varying layup.

Now, have multiple riders do blind rides, and show that they can consistently identify the wheels that used the rims w/ slightly larger radial deflection capacity.

Not gonna happen. That is my point. "Feeling" radial compliance (or radial "harshness") of wheels is a myth. With folks like Damon Rinard and Jobst Brandt on my side of the argument, I'm confident.

Feeling _lateral _stiffness, on the other hand, is not a myth. I have no doubt that even modest riders can feel the substantial difference between poorly built alloy wheels and well built carbon wheels. And its believable that your "discerning riders" can feel modest differences between reasonably constructed carbon wheels. But no rider is feeling radial deformation, or lack thereof.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi Inertia Man,

There is a stiffness difference between those 2 rims in a built wheel, it's reasonably obvious and yet with mechanical testing the results are not that different. One is a bit stiffer laterally and one is a bit stiffer vertically on a naked rim. The one that is stiffer vertically feels significantly stiffer on the trail. I think this is a rare case when looking at the rim comparison results as you'd expect the rim that showed a little bit more side stiffness would feel stiffer on the trail, but that is not the case with these particular rims. Lateral stiffness is a far better indication on how the wheel will ride but there are other design elements that come into play. 

We have built prototype carbon rims that can be flexed 6 inches by hand vertically for test purposes, whereas a typical carbon rim of the same outer width flexes so little that you can barely feel it move. Even though they have similar side stiffness, in a built wheel they feel dramatically different. This is an extreme case, but even a novice rider could easily tell that they ride much different. The only similarities are side stiffness, the profiles and construction is dramatically different.

You were talking about comparing 2 identical rims with a different amount of vertical flex and seeing if someone can feel the difference. I doubt anyone could. I was talking about comparing 2 completely different profiles and saying even though the side stiffness about the same, they feel different when built up as a wheel. The rim depth, layup schedule, and wall thickness throughout the rims are all very different so they behave differently.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> Why don't you tell us what you mean by "harshness"? Quantify it.
> And the "two" datapoints are actually 8 or 9 (different models from each maker).
> 
> You _literally _asked for comment about differences in ride quality between the AM728 and the 650BC05:
> ...


Again, you're so busy arguing with yourself and trying to showboat about your knowledge of carbon rims that you didn't even understand my question. I even stated my question again and you still didn't get it. I asked how do these rims/wheels feel in comparison to other brands. Other brands. Even, Nox, Nobl, Knight, Sram, etc. I don't really care for your engineering analysis as I can do my own, I was asking for opinions and you keep trying to shove your "data" and "analysis" in this thread. Again, way to not read or understand the question.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

matadorCE said:


> Again, you're so busy arguing with yourself and trying to showboat about your knowledge of carbon rims that you didn't even understand my question. I even stated my question again and you still didn't get it. I asked how do these rims/wheels feel in comparison to other brands. Other brands. Even, Nox, Nobl, Knight, Sram, etc. I don't really care for your engineering analysis as I can do my own, I was asking for opinions and you keep trying to shove your "data" and "analysis" in this thread. Again, way to not read or understand the question.


You should ask Ford what they think of Chevy.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

matadorCE said:


> Again, you're so busy arguing with yourself and trying to showboat about your knowledge of carbon rims that you didn't even understand my question. I even stated my question again and you still didn't get it. I asked how do these rims/wheels feel in comparison to other brands. Other brands. Even, Nox, Nobl, Knight, Sram, etc. I don't really care for your engineering analysis as I can do my own, I was asking for opinions and you keep trying to shove your "data" and "analysis" in this thread. Again, way to not read or understand the question.


Dude, he answered your question clearly, he just gave data; to summarize his answer: "the same".


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Jayem said:


> You should ask Ford what they think of Chevy.


Or ask a fan of tube amps about mosfet's.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Jayem said:


> You should ask Ford what they think of Chevy.


Oh I'm sorry, did I somehow stumble on onto the forum of the Light Bicycles website or is this still MTBR? Last I checked this wasn't the "LB Carbon Wheels DO NOT TALK ABOUT OTHER BRANDS" thread. 
Geez, what the hell is up with people on this thread? Questions like mine get asked all the damn time on this site about specific bikes, forks, shocks, drivetrain, etc. The fact that no one has really answered my question besides some obsessive-compulsive dude bogged on minutiae is huge red flag that hardly anyone is riding these wheels.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

matadorCE said:


> ...{snip}.. hardly anyone is riding these wheels.


Do you mean this *specific* model of LB wheels?
or LB in general? 
I'd hazard a guess that LB is the most prolific of all imported carbon rim brands. Of the 6 guys I ride with on carbon rims, 4 of them are LB. My Nextie's and another guy's NOXs are the 'oddballs'. Hell, look at the Chinese carbon rim mega thread, LB is pretty much "the standard" until recently when CarbonFan,XMCarbonSpeed, EIE and a few others started popping up.

In an attempt to answer your question: I've ridden 4 brands of carbon: Nextie, LB, NOX and one set of Rovals. all about 28-30 inner. One set was the old LB 38s (i31.8) Doing my best to remove the bike from the equation, yeah they all felt pretty much the same.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

ARandomBiker said:


> In an attempt to answer your question: I've ridden 4 brands of carbon: *Nextie, LB, NOX* and one set of Rovals. all about 28-30 inner. One set was the old LB 38s (i31.8) Doing my best to remove the bike from the equation, yeah they all felt pretty much the same.


They probably come from the same factory. :ciappa:


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> They probably come from the same factory. :ciappa:


It's been theorized before. I won't say it's not at least partially true. There's a lot of grey info. It wouldn't surprise me, and wouldn't put me off. Most frames are laid-up (is that the right past tense of layup?) in a very small part of China. They've gotten pretty good at it. Something like 90% of the world's carbon fiber comes from the Toray company.

My understanding of the situation is as follows, and I hope LB chimes in to confirm or correct:

Nextie and LB are (or were at some time in the past) produced at the same physical address, but used molds that were specific to the brand, hence why asym profiles were a little different and no one but LB were making a 38mm external rim. Nextie used to offer two different lay-up orientations: 45 degrees and a 30/60 degree.
It seems like they might be in the same place, the same way the same tire plant makes a few brands. Vee and Surly, Panaracer and I think Performance house brand Forte...

I don't know jack about NOX, nothing I've read yields much info about their origin other than they aren't claiming "made in the US".


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

light bicycle said:


> ... it's reasonably obvious and yet with mechanical testing the results are not that different.


Have you found the FEA for each rim to support what your riders are telling you?

If you don't trust the actual wheel deflection numbers, you might try doing a test with a ramp, a wheeled sled, an obstacle, and an accelerometer. That'd tell you directly whether a vertically-compliant rim delivers a vertically-complaint ride without adding variables you can't easily control.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ARandomBiker said:


> It's been theorized before. I won't say it's not at least partially true. There's a lot of grey info. It wouldn't surprise me, and wouldn't put me off. Most frames are laid-up (is that the right past tense of layup?) in a very small part of China. They've gotten pretty good at it. Something like 90% of the world's carbon fiber comes from the Toray company.
> 
> My understanding of the situation is as follows, and I hope LB chimes in to confirm or correct:
> 
> ...


We do not sell our rims to trading companies in China which is what happens with many Chinese manufacturers. Quite a few years ago we sold some rims to other companies in China, but the problem was that you lose control over the customer experience and how the other company represents you (if they represent you at all). So we decided to not sell to any trading companies.

There are a lot of carbon rim manufacturers in China, but there are even more trading companies and it's traditionally the trading companies that become more prominent. That is what leads to so much confusion about what you are even buying as they may private label rims from several suppliers.

When you buy a Light Bicycle rim, it is coming from us directly. We were early adopters in the direct to consumer approach and have a stronger website than some competitors. So we often find our pictures and information on others websites (even though we do not sell to them). More confusion ensues...

The direct to consumer model was originally developed because we needed more feedback from riders on what we should make. We were starting out and didn't have big bike companies to produce rims for. We thought if some big bike companies heard about us through consumers, they might consider using us as a manufacturer. After a few years though, we were able to get enough end-consumer orders that we became stabilized and didn't need to rely on a big bike company to help us grow.

We do produce some rims for other smaller brands and most of which own their molds at the factory and aid in the development to make their products unique. Naturally we cannot disclose any of that information beyond what I've said.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

InertiaMan said:


> That is my point. "Feeling" radial compliance (or radial "harshness") of wheels is a myth. With folks like Damon Rinard and Jobst Brandt on my side of the argument, I'm confident.
> 
> Feeling _lateral _stiffness, on the other hand, is not a myth. I have no doubt that even modest riders can feel the substantial difference between poorly built alloy wheels and well built carbon wheels. And its believable that your "discerning riders" can feel modest differences between reasonably constructed carbon wheels. But no rider is feeling radial deformation, or lack thereof.


Hi InertiaMan, I have also the Rinard and Brandt stuff, and have always been inclined to agree with your stance on the topic of vertical compliance. I am curious to get your take on a few topics that I have pondered, but can't recall seeing addressed before:

1. Radial stiffness of a complete wheel is largely a factor of maintaining spoke tension, whereas lateral stiffness is more related to the rim itself. Under lateral loads with even a fairly stiff rim, it is possible cause a significant detensioning of the spokes on one side of the wheel, for example when you are riding freshly built wheels in a parking lot and lean the bike dramatically under you, while keeping your weight over the tire contact patches, causing the spokes to "ping". Under conditions of that nature, since the lateral load has substantially or fully detensioned some of the spokes, the spokes' contribution to the radial stiffness of the wheel would be reduced and, under a combined radial/lateral load, the more radially flexible rim would now exhibit significantly more radial compliance, because the rim itself has become a much larger player in the mix. I understand that this would only be in events where there is a total loss of tension on a few spokes from the combined forces. I guess what I am saying it that I have wondered if those events might be more common than realized when you consider cornering in bumpy terrain, and that "lateral compliance" in isolation, may result in increased radial compliance on the trail.

2. Related to those spoke detensioning events, have you ever seen any dynamic measures of spoke tension from actual rides? I have always been curious to see what the spokes are doing when subjected to 3D loads. 3D loads could certainly be measured in the lab, but I am not sure that the loading models would be reflective of the actual stuff people are riding.

3. None of these measures take into account the torsional stiffness of the rim around its own axis. By torsional, I mean as if you were to grab the rim with vice grips that spanned the two sidewalls, and applied force to twist the rim's cross section. It would be possible for a rim to flex in that direction without a significant change in tension on the spokes, and that could account for some of the radial "compliance" people report, although it would only come into play on off axis impacts.

The potential increase in radial compliance in the more extreme events in item 1 aside, I have always figured that the "harshness" that most people attribute to excess radial stiffness is really a combination of placebo mixed with a misattribution of lateral and perhaps torsional stiffness. When you consider things like leaning the bike over to 45 degrees in bumpy a corner, and/or going through a rock garden with all sorts of off axis impacts, people are likely to feel more feedback through their hands with a laterally stiffer rim and, due to the angulation of the rider, the line between lateral/radial from the rider experience, is much more blurred.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Inertia Man,
> 
> There is a stiffness difference between those 2 rims in a built wheel, it's reasonably obvious and yet with mechanical testing the results are not that different. One is a bit stiffer laterally and one is a bit stiffer vertically on a naked rim. The one that is stiffer vertically feels significantly stiffer on the trail. I think this is a rare case when looking at the rim comparison results as you'd expect the rim that showed a little bit more side stiffness would feel stiffer on the trail, but that is not the case with these particular rims. Lateral stiffness is a far better indication on how the wheel will ride but there are other design elements that come into play.
> 
> ...


In reference to this scenario you mention: _"Even though they have similar side stiffness, in a built wheel they feel dramatically different. This is an extreme case, but even a novice rider could easily tell that they ride much different. The only similarities are side stiffness, the profiles and construction is dramatically different."_ Is it possible that none of the dramatically different ride feel is due to the radial compliance difference, and instead riders were feeling a difference in torsional stiffness between rims? I would imagine that a rim that radially compliant would be much easier to twist, even if lateral stiffness was equivalent. Out of curiousity, do you guys have any torsional stiffness figures for various rims that you can share with us, as you have generously done with radial/lateral?

In reference to this: "_You were talking about comparing 2 identical rims with a different amount of vertical flex and seeing if someone can feel the difference. I doubt anyone could. I was talking about comparing 2 completely different profiles and saying even though the side stiffness about the same, they feel different when built up as a wheel. The rim depth, layup schedule, and wall thickness throughout the rims are all very different so they behave differently._ It sounds like you are saying that there is a bigger player in the "feel" of a rim than vertical or lateral flex, and that player has to do with "rim depth, layup schedule, and wall thickness". What traits of the rim do you think depth, layup, and thickness of the rim are altering, if not radial/lateral stiffness?

Also, do you guys measure the ability of the rim's cross section to compress, as if you were squeezing a tube? I think some of the Zipp road tubular rims claim to have flex of this sort engineered in, but that seems much easier on a tubular rim as it has a cross section that lends itself to this. Even still, some of the deeper clinchers do have a lot of open space in the middle.

P.S. Props to you guys for being so active in the forum, and being willing to answer the tough questions! I guess that may be a product of a consumer direct business model, but it is refreshing to see. So many brands either ignore this stuff, or only pop in when there is a new product release to collect a few accolades, and then they disappear.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

TheKaiser said:


> Also, do you guys measure the ability of the rim's cross section to compress, as if you were squeezing a tube? I think some of the Zipp road tubular rims claim to have flex of this sort engineered in, but that seems much easier on a tubular rim as it has a cross section that lends itself to this. Even still, some of the deeper clinchers do have a lot of open space in the middle.


In theory, this could provide some amount of radial "compliance" since the compression of the rim cross section could be independent of the pre-tensioned structure of the wheel. In practice, I don't think it is possible. In essence, you are saying that the rim would act like a second tire. Any force that would compress this rim "tube" would also be compressing the tire. Reasonably assuming the threshold for compression of the rim "tube" is higher than a force for compressing the tire, then the rim "tube" would only get compressed once the tire bottoms out against the rim.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

TheKaiser said:


> Hi InertiaMan, I have also the Rinard and Brandt stuff, and have always been inclined to agree with your stance on the topic of vertical compliance. I am curious to get your take on a few topics that I have pondered, but can't recall seeing addressed before:
> 
> 1. Radial stiffness of a complete wheel is largely a factor of maintaining spoke tension, whereas lateral stiffness is more related to the rim itself. Under lateral loads with even a fairly stiff rim, it is possible cause a significant detensioning of the spokes on one side of the wheel, for example when you are riding freshly built wheels in a parking lot and lean the bike dramatically under you, while keeping your weight over the tire contact patches, causing the spokes to "ping". Under conditions of that nature, since the lateral load has substantially or fully detensioned some of the spokes, the spokes' contribution to the radial stiffness of the wheel would be reduced and, under a combined radial/lateral load, the more radially flexible rim would now exhibit significantly more radial compliance, because the rim itself has become a much larger player in the mix. I understand that this would only be in events where there is a total loss of tension on a few spokes from the combined forces. I guess what I am saying it that I have wondered if those events might be more common than realized when you consider cornering in bumpy terrain, and that "lateral compliance" in isolation, may result in increased radial compliance on the trail.
> 
> ...


Responding in order:

1) First need to correct some statements/perceptions. Assuming a laced wheel structure remains under tension, the spoke tension actually doesn't play a role in the vertical compliance (= displacement due to low radial stiffness) of a wheel. Seems counter-intuitive at first, but its only the spoke gauge, pattern, rim modulus of elasticity and rim moment of inertia that contribute. Read the Nox Composites webpage if you want the math/science. Lateral flexibility is determined by not only the rim itself (material, cross section) but substantially by spoke count, bracing angle and pattern (notably absent again: spoke tension). All that said, I agree that the different feel of different lateral stiffness likely explains how some riders describe more-harsh/less-harsh wheels. But I disagree that any during-ride variability in vertical compliance is contributing (or even possible).

2) I'd love to see a wheel built using all aramid or kevlar cord (like FiberFix replacement spokes) in place of traditional spokes, with a micromachined silicon tensionmeter laced into each "spoke" transmitting realtime tensions to a data logger. But the practical hurdles (and costs) are high, and the rewards are unclear, so unlikely to happen.

3) what you seem to be describing is two opposing lateral forces, which have offset locations where they are directed onto the tire/rim. While this could alter spoke tensions, those changes in spoke tension will not change the radial deformation (at least until tension goes < 0). Also, those forces are not only going to want to produce lateral deformation or deflection; since they are offset, they will also want to produce a rotation of the fork around the steering axis, which the rider must resist. Among the many things for a rider to feel in such a situation, radial deformation is still the lowest on the list by orders of magnitude, so hard to imagine it is distinguishable Remember, we're taking about a radial distance of a few human hairs, amidst a cacophony of so many other far greater forces/distances.

To summarize my perspective:
a) I have no doubt that different wheels feel different to riders. 
b) the adjectives used are arbitrary (harsh, forgiving, compliant, whatever).
c) ignoring the corner case of total de-tensioning of spokes (and potential wheel failure), the "vertical compliance" of a laced bicycle wheel is extremely small and varies very little among wheels. Between the lightest alloy wheels and the thickest/deepest carbon wheels, the variability is literally about 1/100th of an inch. This is a fact of physics that is well documented.
d) given the above, perceptions of wheel behavior CANNOT be accurately attributed to more/less vertical compliance.
e) assuming one controls for all other variables (rim width, tire, tire pressure, etc) that leaves few other attributes to 'blame" for "wheel feel" other than lateral stiffness, and the many consequences it has, and the myriad ways that a rider may respond to that input.

This leaves a lot of potential space for a rim maker, wheel builder, or rider to play. Is there a sweetspot for lateral stiffness? Or is more always better? Assuming there is a "curve" of how lateral stiffness changes during a lateral deformation event, is there a curve that feels better/worse to some riders? Can a carbon rim make alter layups to influence that "curve" and produce a rim/wheel that pleases riders?

I think it will be great to see rim/wheel evolution in that regard. Just don't attribute it to vertical compliance, at least so long as the wheel is a laced spoke variety.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi Kaiser, 

The thread is getting massive so I will try to respond here without all of the quotes. regarding torsion testing, we haven't done that testing as far as I recall. You could be right about that coming into play for those 2 rims we were discussing as the difference in feel is noticeable on the trail and the rims test our surprisingly similar lateral/vertical considering their obvious construction differences.

Regarding your question: What traits of the rim do you think depth, layup, and thickness of the rim are altering, if not radial/lateral stiffness?

A deeper rim would increase torsional stiffness. Additional wall thickness would increase stiffness as well but you'd need to look at the layup construction to figure out what would change, and also where you added the extra thickness. Adding material to the nipple bed for example can significantly alter the vertical stiffness, but so can simply changing the orientation. There are many different layers in that area so there is a lot of combinations for choosing between 45's 90's, 0 degree and you alter layers to build up the strength and stiffness to the desired amount. You can also use different types of carbon fibre, T800 for example will behave much differently from T700. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are so many different factors that go into how a rim rides and performs. We could make 1,000+ different versions of a rim from the same mold and get them to ride differently. Looking at a profile of a rim certainly does not tell the whole story.

I'm not quite sure I'm following your last question about measuring the rims compression. Do you mean, forces squeezing the rim sidewalls together? Or what happens to a rim when you inflate a tire?

Thanks for the kind words about our participation on this forum. More than a few people have told us going to the forums was crazy and that we should just read the comments but not engage. If you sell direct to consumers, I think you owe it to them to put yourself out there.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Which rim do you recommend for 650b with 2.3-2.6 tyre wide mainly use for enduro/dh? 

Is there possible to increase warranty at least 3 years, because nextie offers 3 years warranty and zelvy has 5 years warranty. Both brands are cheaper than ur rims. 

What is the main difference between you rims to nextie. It looks like all profile rims are same as light-bicycle.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

rave81 said:


> Which rim do you recommend for 650b with 2.3-2.6 tyre wide mainly use for enduro/dh?
> 
> Is there possible to increase warranty at least 3 years, because nextie offers 3 years warranty and zelvy has 5 years warranty. Both brands are cheaper than ur rims.
> 
> What is the main difference between you rims to nextie. It looks like all profile rims are same as light-bicycle.


Our current warranty is for 1 year. Our rims are completely different from the one's you mentioned, the only similarity would be some of the dimensions may be similar. Our rims and molds are made at a completely different factory so all of the processes in the rims would be unique.

Our RM650BC13 would probably be the most popular choice for what you're after, it's 31,6mm internally, 38 external and can be ordered in an HD version. The EN733 would be a bit wider, it's asymmetric so it would have more even tension and has a longer crash replacement policy (2 years 25% off). The EN733 is 33,6 inside so it's quite wide for a 2.3" tire but might be fine for you depending on your tire choice. The EN733's with some Maxxis 2.4/2.5" Minion WT tires is hard to beat performance wise.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

light bicycle said:


> I'm not quite sure I'm following your last question about measuring the rims compression. Do you mean, forces squeezing the rim sidewalls together? Or what happens to a rim when you inflate a tire?


Thank you for the thorough reply. Regarding the above bit about compression, I was referring to the ability of the rim itself to compress under impact load, without altering the round structure or spoke tension of the overall wheel/spoke bed area.

To put it another way, imagine the rim's cross section. I am wondering if there is any measurable deflection and rebound, within the cross section the cross section, when an impact force is applied to the tire side, and a opposite supportive/resistive force is supplied by the spokes.

It would be the same as if a drinking straw represented the rim cross section and you squeeze the straw with your 2 fingers, which represent the two forces mentioned above. The straw deflects from round to oval in cross section, and then springs back. Does the rim cross section flex in a similar way, such that its depth measured from spoke bed to top of sidewall edge is reduced, and then spring back to its original shape?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

I noticed on the cn website that the mtb wheels have the cool looking decals, but the road bike wheels don't have that option. Is that going to change soon?


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

InertiaMan said:


> 1) First need to correct some statements/perceptions. Assuming a laced wheel structure remains under tension, the spoke tension actually doesn't play a role in the vertical compliance (= displacement due to low radial stiffness) of a wheel. Seems counter-intuitive at first, but its only the spoke gauge, pattern, rim modulus of elasticity and rim moment of inertia that contribute. Read the Nox Composites webpage if you want the math/science. Lateral flexibility is determined by not only the rim itself (material, cross section) but substantially by spoke count, bracing angle and pattern (notably absent again: spoke tension). All that said, I agree that the different feel of different lateral stiffness likely explains how some riders describe more-harsh/less-harsh wheels. But I disagree that any during-ride variability in vertical compliance is contributing (or even possible).
> 
> 3) what you seem to be describing is two opposing lateral forces, which have offset locations where they are directed onto the tire/rim. While this could alter spoke tensions, those changes in spoke tension will not change the radial deformation (at least until tension goes < 0). Also, those forces are not only going to want to produce lateral deformation or deflection; since they are offset, they will also want to produce a rotation of the fork around the steering axis, which the rider must resist. Among the many things for a rider to feel in such a situation, radial deformation is still the lowest on the list by orders of magnitude, so hard to imagine it is distinguishable Remember, we're taking about a radial distance of a few human hairs, amidst a cacophony of so many other far greater forces/distances.
> 
> e) assuming one controls for all other variables (rim width, tire, tire pressure, etc) that leaves few other attributes to 'blame" for "wheel feel" other than lateral stiffness, and the many consequences it has, and the myriad ways that a rider may respond to that input.


Regarding point 1. I am in total agreement regarding increased levels of spoke tension not contributing to increased wheel stiffness. When I said radial stiffness is a function of maintaining spoke tension, I should have said radial stiffness is a product of the presence of some minimum level of spoke tension, and beyond that minimum level (which is far below the typical range a builder uses), does nothing.

Regarding point 3. The torsional deflection I was thinking of was of the sort where there is a direct impact load to one half of the tread area of the tire, such that the tire carcass is twisted to the side of the impact, with that half of the tire compressing and the other half of the tire being pulled over toward the side of the impact. This sort of thing will occur when you just barely nail the edge of a rock. I am wondering if the rim sidewall and bead seat area on that side would be able to twist with the impact toward the wheel center, while the opposite sidewall and bead seat would move in an opposing direction, away from the wheel center. This could all occur without any radial compression of the spoke bed/wheel, as the rim would be twisting around that point, with the spoke bed being a fulcrum of sorts.

I agree that this sort of thing will be a minimal contributor. It is just that I am trying to think of anything else that could account for the different "feel" that people report, since we are in agreement that radial stiffness is likely not it.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

TheKaiser said:


> Thank you for the thorough reply. Regarding the above bit about compression, I was referring to the ability of the rim itself to compress under impact load, without altering the round structure or spoke tension of the overall wheel/spoke bed area.
> 
> To put it another way, imagine the rim's cross section. I am wondering if there is any measurable deflection and rebound, within the cross section the cross section, when an impact force is applied to the tire side, and a opposite supportive/resistive force is supplied by the spokes.
> 
> It would be the same as if a drinking straw represented the rim cross section and you squeeze the straw with your 2 fingers, which represent the two forces mentioned above. The straw deflects from round to oval in cross section, and then springs back. Does the rim cross section flex in a similar way, such that its depth measured from spoke bed to top of sidewall edge is reduced, and then spring back to its original shape?


Okay I understand now, thank you. We have been paying more attention to this the past year. We have built prototype rims with drastically different profiles to test the extremes of these kinds of forces so they can be tested with more obvious results. You want the rim to be able to spread the impact force through the sidewall. If the radius isn't right for the given stiffness of the rims then the sidewalls can crack too easily. Some rim designs excel in this area better than others and we've been able to learn from that. Measuring the change is difficult, but yes the cross section can change shape slightly, and naturally the amount of change varies depending on the rim's shape, layup design, depth etc.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

zephxiii said:


> I noticed on the cn website that the mtb wheels have the cool looking decals, but the road bike wheels don't have that option. Is that going to change soon?


Yes, we've got some alternate graphics we're trying. We had done a poll showing quite a few design ideas and this one was the most popular so this is what we'll likely go with. We're testing these in glossy black, and a few colors before finalizing.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

light bicycle said:


> Okay I understand now, thank you. We have been paying more attention to this the past year. We have built prototype rims with drastically different profiles to test the extremes of these kinds of forces so they can be tested with more obvious results. You want the rim to be able to spread the impact force through the sidewall. If the radius isn't right for the given stiffness of the rims then the sidewalls can crack too easily. Some rim designs excel in this area better than others and we've been able to learn from that. Measuring the change is difficult, but yes the cross section can change shape slightly, and naturally the amount of change varies depending on the rim's shape, layup design, depth etc.


Thanks for that additional info! If you guys have any more data on that topic from continued testing, please post it here or on your website. I know that if faced with the choice between 2 rims with similar specs, I would likely go with the one that demonstrated more of this sort of compliance, both for the potential to improve the ride, and in hopes that on a hard hit it would be more likely to flex rather than crack.


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## speedwei (Nov 3, 2016)

I've been searching for a carbon wheelset for my Turner Czar. I don't ride very aggressive and weighs 70 kg. I assume with 28 spokes 29c19 rims would be a good match for me. I was hoping to get as wide as I can on ID but keep below 400 grams per rim. I normally run 2.25 Racing Ralph or Rocket Ron...sometime I switch to 2.35 Nobby for real loose or rough conditions. Any suggestions?! 

Currently I'm on Stans Crest wheelset... with a slight dent on the rear rim  total rider error.. I kept on going knowing I had a slow leak in the rear and running way low pressure. I normally run about 20 psi

Thank you!!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

speedwei said:


> I've been searching for a carbon wheelset for my Turner Czar. I don't ride very aggressive and weighs 70 kg. I assume with 28 spokes 29c19 rims would be a good match for me. I was hoping to get as wide as I can on ID but keep below 400 grams per rim. I normally run 2.25 Racing Ralph or Rocket Ron...sometime I switch to 2.35 Nobby for real loose or rough conditions. Any suggestions?!
> 
> Currently I'm on Stans Crest wheelset... with a slight dent on the rear rim  total rider error.. I kept on going knowing I had a slow leak in the rear and running way low pressure. I normally run about 20 psi
> 
> Thank you!!


I have the nextie 25/30mm 29er rims, they are around 400g (supposed to come in a bit below, but mine are painted). I assume LB has something similar. That size is a good match for an 29er XC bike IME, I even beat the hell out of them DHing and racing, then relaced them for my pivot XC bike. I don't think you need to worry too much about strength, but if it were me, at a similar weight, I'd go 32 spokes in the rear and build with revolution 2.0/1.5s, rather than go to 28 spokes. Go 28 spokes on the front, where the forces are less. I just put a 2.25 "racing ralph" on the rear too. I'm not impressed so far, it's a little skinnier than the michelin 2.1 wild raceR, which balloons out nicely on these rims. I got the racing ralph for a specific race, but I'll put the other wild raceR back on after I'm done, as I'm pretty happy with their profile.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

speedwei said:


> I've been searching for a carbon wheelset for my Turner Czar. I don't ride very aggressive and weighs 70 kg. I assume with 28 spokes 29c19 rims would be a good match for me. I was hoping to get as wide as I can on ID but keep below 400 grams per rim. I normally run 2.25 Racing Ralph or Rocket Ron...sometime I switch to 2.35 Nobby for real loose or rough conditions. Any suggestions?!
> 
> Currently I'm on Stans Crest wheelset... with a slight dent on the rear rim  total rider error.. I kept on going knowing I had a slow leak in the rear and running way low pressure. I normally run about 20 psi
> 
> Thank you!!


The RM29C19's are a great rim for XC/Trail. Here are a few listed weights of the 32h UD Matte rims we have in stock at the Chinese and USA warehouse: 387g,395g,396g,396g, 383g, 389g and in 28h we have one in stock at 404g for example. Keep in mind 32h rims are actually lighter on average because you have more holes in them. It's also easier to choose a lighter 32h rim for you as we produce a lot more 32h.

Some of our 35mm wide 29" rims with the 30mm internal width come in at 410 grams per rim, so the weight difference isn't that large. If you look at your system weight, you could go to the bike shop and pick out 4 of the same tires and they will vary in weight quite a lot. Choose a lighter one of those and you could easily end up at the same weight or lighter than the narrower rims. So I would make the choice based on how wide you want to go in this case. For 2.25's I think you would be better off with the 24mm internal width if you decide to go with us.

Are you looking for a complete wheelset? I know the guys at the North American warehouse have a new set of RM29C19's built onto DT240's on special, it uses 12k glossy 28h rims front and back. 142x12 XD, 100x15mm. [email protected]


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## chowdapilot (May 30, 2005)

Late joining this party, are there any LB coupon codes available for 1st time buyers? If so please post or PM me. Ready to purchase a new set. Thanks!


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Just received my LB asym XC923s that my LBS laced up to a set of Roval hubs I had from my old wheels - they order the rims in a group buy. Sapim D-Light spokes. DT alloy locking nips + washers. Crazy nice wheels. 23mm internal is HUGE to me, certainly compared to the 19mm Roval's I had....my 2.35 Maxxis Ikon finally measures 2.35! Total OTD LBS build was $740. Very impressed with these rims. Took about a month from order to delivery. I will be ordering another set this fall for my gravel/cross/drop-bar bike.


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

Well, its all your fault. Just read through all 6 pages of this thread.

Just ordered two AM733 wheels for my Intense Tracer 275A. How did LB know I wanted Onyx hubs? All this, and the only thing I really needed was an XD freehub for my new cassette. Man! You guys really know how to lighten my wallet.


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## baltobrewer (Apr 22, 2015)

light bicycle said:


> We do not sell our rims to trading companies in China which is what happens with many Chinese manufacturers. Quite a few years ago we sold some rims to other companies in China, but the problem was that you lose control over the customer experience and how the other company represents you (if they represent you at all). So we decided to not sell to any trading companies.
> 
> There are a lot of carbon rim manufacturers in China, but there are even more trading companies and it's traditionally the trading companies that become more prominent. That is what leads to so much confusion about what you are even buying as they may private label rims from several suppliers.
> 
> ...


This is one of the reasons that I recently pulled the trigger on a full wheelset build from LB (65mm fatty rims, DT Swiss Big ride hubs, etc.). I like the fact that these wheels are made to order, in house, by the same people who oversee the process from start to finish. Paid just over $1K shipped to my house halfway around the world. The rims are in sanding now, so should ship out within a few days, but so far, communication, response time, and overall sales process/buying experience has been second to none. I'll chime in here when they arrive to let you know, but honestly, I can't see getting any better customer service from a company. Now that they have a true US presence, I think things will only improve. Just me .02.

Jay


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Good customer service = happy customers = more customers = business grows. Not rocket science.


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

HA! Placed an order with Light Bicycle last week (Wed evening). The next morning, June 1, I received an email with a delivery date of 6/7. 

Got them this morning (6/7). Exactly as ordered. Onyx hubs, Sapim spokes, XD driver, 6 bolt, all perfect. Two beautiful AM733 wheels. 

How about that. Order, build, and deliver approx. 2000 miles away (coast of California) in less than 7 complete days.

These guys have it together!


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## vqdriver (May 8, 2009)

tldr.

dunno what that thing with inertiaman above is, but i i like the fact that a company is here on the forum answering questions. i've seen that on some other (non-cycling) forums and hope the trend continues because it's a great way to build a line of communication. i'll admit to carbon snobbery. i just don't want any doubt when it comes to trusting my wheels, but i'll be strongly considering the lb rims for an upcoming build.

one question tho, will you rebuild a set of hubs i have here? or do i have to order the rims and give to a local builder?


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## baltobrewer (Apr 22, 2015)

So, update: the wheels arrived a few days ago. Box had nary a ding, wheels were packed a little less tightly than I'd have liked (no stabilizing polystyrene end caps), but they arrived damage free and look tremendous. They are both true to the millimeter both laterally and vertically. I don't have a spoke tensionometer, so I can't verify that, but if they last like they look, we are in good shape. Specs: 65mm fatbike rims, DT Swiss Big Ride hubs, 150x15 and 177x12, DT Swiss double butted spokes, alloy nips.

A few pics of unboxing day:








































































Happy camper here. :thumbsup:


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

baltobrewer said:


> So, update: the wheels arrived a few days ago. Box had nary a ding, wheels were packed a little less tightly than I'd have liked (no stabilizing polystyrene end caps), but they arrived damage free and look tremendous. They are both true to the millimeter both laterally and vertically. I don't have a spoke tensionometer, so I can't verify that, but if they last like they look, we are in good shape. Specs: 65mm fatbike rims, DT Swiss Big Ride hubs, 150x15 and 177x12, DT Swiss double butted spokes, alloy nips.
> 
> A few pics of unboxing day:
> 
> ...


Nice, you got me beat by a few grams, although the 1up hope mini-driver was a few grams heavier than the DT freehub. I also have a set of 90mms, they are about 200g heavier, those rims came out at about 660g ea. Here's the 65 though:


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

vqdriver said:


> tldr.
> 
> dunno what that thing with inertiaman above is, but i i like the fact that a company is here on the forum answering questions. i've seen that on some other (non-cycling) forums and hope the trend continues because it's a great way to build a line of communication. i'll admit to carbon snobbery. i just don't want any doubt when it comes to trusting my wheels, but i'll be strongly considering the lb rims for an upcoming build.
> 
> one question tho, will you rebuild a set of hubs i have here? or do i have to order the rims and give to a local builder?


The Canadian office can handle rebuilding on hubs supplied by customers. Our US office does not handle that currently.


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

vqdriver said:


> tldr.
> 
> dunno what that thing with inertiaman above is, but i i like the fact that a company is here on the forum answering questions. i've seen that on some other (non-cycling) forums and hope the trend continues because it's a great way to build a line of communication. i'll admit to carbon snobbery. i just don't want any doubt when it comes to trusting my wheels, but i'll be strongly considering the lb rims for an upcoming build.
> 
> one question tho, will you rebuild a set of hubs i have here? or do i have to order the rims and give to a local builder?


These LB wheels are my first CF. Can't give an opinion relative to other brands, but I am 100% sold on these wheels. Now I understand what the term "carbon snobbery" is all about.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Had another surreal moment yesterday with my nearly 4 year old LB rims. On a trail I'd never ridden before, I smacked a small iceberg with both wheels, right in the center of the tread. After my brain processed the double thunk/crack sound, I heard the hiss and felt sealant hitting me. For the first time in 27 years of riding I lost both tires at the exact same moment. The whole way back to the car I was dreading peeling those tires off, but they were fine. Again. Rear wheel had a bontrager rim strip and there was no mark at all, the front wheel was just taped and it just has 2 small nicks in the rim bed.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

92gli said:


> Had another surreal moment yesterday with my nearly 4 year old LB rims. On a trail I'd never ridden before, I smacked a small iceberg with both wheels, right in the center of the tread. After my brain processed the double thunk/crack sound, I heard the hiss and felt sealant hitting me. For the first time in 27 years of riding I lost both tires at the exact same moment. The whole way back to the car I was dreading peeling those tires off, but they were fine. Again. Rear wheel had a bontrager rim strip and there was no mark at all, the front wheel was just taped and it just has 2 small nicks in the rim bed.


The one carbon rim I have killed was due to me using too-low pressure (was going to fill the tires before a ride and got lazy) and surely would have killed an aluminum rim and made it un-usable. I had a loud "crack" and I thought maybe I had bottomed my shock hard or something, but looking over my bike I couldn't detect anything out of the ordinary and only felt a little sealant spraying out a few hundred feet later and then I realized I was losing pressure. I was able to throw a tube in and ride 10 miles of downhill back to the car (riding hard), but I know aluminum wouldn't have fared any better. It may bend in overload, but it would have been trashed all the same. Inspect that rim carefully to make sure it isn't cracked. After building up a replacement wheel for a race the next weekend, I ran so much pressure that when I hit a rock dead-center in my tread after the enduro race, it punctured the tire casing, which is something I had never done before. Usually it'd be a pinch or a slash on a sidewall, but I slammed the section so hard and there was nothing else that could give, so punctured the tire dead center. Better that than the rim though! One of my rim-sets that's seen DH racing, been re-laced several times and now been retired to XC is around 4 years old. That's good mileage for me and rims...


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

are the current posted weights for the RM650BC13 accurate in 27.5? rumors say all kinds of things online. anyone weigh them?


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## spec47 (Jul 12, 2013)

Can somebody recommend a 29er LB wheelset for me?

I've been running Stan's Flow EX (29.9 ext 25.5 int) wheels on my 150mm/130mm carbon Rocky Mountain Instinct for 3 years and I've never dented or had to true them. Looking to reduce weight for Whistler XC racing (which sometimes means we're descending EWS stages). Have a DH bike for the park, but use this bike for everything else from technical XC marathons to full on enduro riding.

64kg/140lbs, would 28h be suitable for me? Figured I'm on the light side and carbon will be a lot stiffer than I'm riding now and thought this might soften things up a little bit.

Planning on buying CX-ray spokes and DT240s (possibly 350s) for 15x100 and 12x142 axles. Run 2.35" tires usually, maybe 2.25" at times. Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic now, but sometimes Nobby Nic/Racing Ralph.

What width would you suggest? 30mm (29C07) or 28mm asymmetric (AM928)? Open to other options.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

I've been running my Instinct 150/130 with LB 30mm IW rims for a while, and I like that setup... but wouldn't recommend those rims. My do-over would be durability with width, I'd get the 38/31.6mm ones for how I ride, but the weight savings with those are pretty much trivial.

If you are really looking to save weight and don't mind the cost bump, go with the Asym i28's... 

Based on your suggested build, I'd go with that - if you're looking to pony up for 240's, then the weight priority is key, and the Asym design is the newer and improved one.

Running 2.35" tires, 28mm IW is fine (I ran WTB i29 Asyms prior, and loved it)...

The only caveats despite how similar my setup is to yours: I'm 105kg, ride in New Mexico, and run 2.4" Minions on there.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

30IW rims are fine. Depends on how you ride and how heavy you want it to get. Although carbon is light, with the weight so far out there I notice it more with 29er wheels than anything else, which drives the bike up and outside berms/turn-apex. So minimizing this and balancing out traction and tire width is the game. I ran 25IW rims on my Enduro 29er and it worked fine (run them on my 29er XC now). Contrary to the current state of things, we ran rims skinnier than 40mm all the time a few years ago and it wasn't an issue. Wider rims to a certain extent are good, but you go over that line fairly quickly at the 29er wheel-size IME. Strict XC and 25IW is great, it'll handle AM just fine too. If you want to be more targeted towards AM, go 30IW. If you need to run plus tires, you'll be on even wider rims and you will have accepted the hit in maneuverability at speed. 

I put plenty of park days on the 25IW rims and a few DH races, held up great. Relaced them several times and eventually retired to an XC race bike, where they don't get pampered. If I were to build up a "trail" 29er, which I consider your bike to be, I might go 30IW, but my idea would be that it would NOT be an XC bike and NOT intended to go a little faster in the XC races.


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## oliver37 (Jul 30, 2017)

*Order Placed!*

Well, after reading this entire thread I took the plunge and ordered the following for my 2015 Santa Cruz Tallboy LTc:

XC923 (23mm inside) UD matte
DT Swiss 240s straight pull w/Shimano MTB 10/11
Sapim CS Ray, 28 spokes

I must say that Light Bicycle's posts on this thread take most of the credit for my purchase. I found them all to be informative, extremely well-written, and level headed (even under attack).

In case anyone is wondering why I'm buying such a light, narrow, and potentially fragile XC wheelset for my long travel Tallboy, I find that as I age, my climbs get higher and my jumps get lower. Santa Cruz's regular travel Tallboy (there is no LT anymore) is perhaps only a quarter pound lighter than mine, if that, so I'm committed to making mine as light as it can possibly be!

I'll share photos and my experience when the wheels arrive.


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## PositiveIon (Jan 3, 2017)

I've skimmed some of the previous discussion about rim engineering, however can I bring back this discussion down to the level of a potential LB customer (snowbike with rear 177/TA) who is interested to know what are the most important technical considerations that determine the choice of product. I'm choosing between LB 85 mm rim and Nextie Wild Dragon II. The most obvious differences between these are the rim profiles, with the LB's being considerably lower/flatter (22 mm) compared to the Nextie (40 mm), and the spoke offset is quite different (+/-16 mm compared with +/-2.5 mm if I've got those right). The LB rim design seem to be similar to other brands like Whisky No. 9. 

If we ignore all the other engineering choices in a rim design, I am curious to understand what design priorities led to LB deciding on their flatter rim profile and relatively wide spoke placement. Did LB more or less follow an already-established and proven engineering design? Crucially, why would I choose the LB design over the competing Nextie one? Would one be theoretically better suited to certain types of riding or terrain than another? Is the LB design intended to give a more compliant ride compared to one like the Nextie? Is it possible to say that one of these designs is predicted to have better long-term durability under average riding conditions than the other? Again, let's ignore for the moment most of the other possible considerations such as price, warranty, reputation, build quality, weight, ease of tubeless setup, etc.


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## oliver37 (Jul 30, 2017)

Hi everyone, just to close the loop on my order, the rims arrived to my door 9 days after the order was placed, or 7 business days. I'm not sure if I could have ordered the components and laced them myself much faster than that. 

They arrived 28g heavier than listed (1,422g vs 1,394), but a few grams can probably be attributed to the stickers. They are perfectly true I am quite happy with the weight savings (compared to my WTF Frequency i23 rims) after a few rides.

Communication with LB after my order was excellent. Would order from them again.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

oliver37 said:


> Hi everyone, just to close the loop on my order, the rims arrived to my door 9 days after the order was placed, or 7 business days. I'm not sure if I could have ordered the components and laced them myself much faster than that.
> 
> They arrived 28g heavier than listed (1,422g vs 1,394), but a few grams can probably be attributed to the stickers. They are perfectly true I am quite happy with the weight savings (compared to my WTF Frequency i23 rims) after a few rides.
> 
> Communication with LB after my order was excellent. Would order from them again.


Let us know how they feel on the bike!


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## oliver37 (Jul 30, 2017)

Jayem said:


> Let us know how they feel on the bike!


This is my first set of carbon rims (I've barely skipped the Enve option on both of my last two Tallboy builds), so I have only an aluminum set to compare to. My aluminum rims are exactly the same dimensions. The variable here is tires - I switched from a Knobby Nic front / Rock Razor rear to a Specialized Renegade on both of the LB wheels, which is a thinner and more supple tire.

From a handling perspective, I think I can feel the suspension moving more and the wheel/tire deflecting less. A metaphor would be looking at my suspension through a dirty window versus a clean window - there is less "noise" and I have a clearer picture of what the bike is doing. The ride is a little busier, as you can feel more going on through the saddle and bars, but not harsh.

All of this could be attributed to the tire change or the wheels, or both. I don't want to get into an argument about carbon rim flex 

A very large change that I am certain about is the overall reduction in weight. This upgrade resulted in a nearly 2lb (902g) reduction in rotating mass, most of it very far from the axles, and the corresponding improvement in acceleration is quite noticeable.

There is a gentle uphill Strava segment that I have ridden nearly 200+ times, made up of a sprint from 5mph to top speed with two 90 degree corners, t/and no matter what I've tried over the last few months I have not been able to beat 35 seconds through it. My first time through with the new wheels and tires, while putting out roughly a 9/10 effort, was 32 seconds. A recent ~25 minute time-to-climb segment came in over two minutes faster than my previous best, as well as a few others, so I think it's safe to say that this setup is a solid 10% faster where acceleration is involved.

So to sum up, the wheels are lighter which was what I was going for, and they do feel like they move around less while cornering than my old setup.


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

Is there any consensus as to which valve stems work best with asymmetric rims?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

*Tubeless Valves on asymmetric rims*



SikeMo said:


> Is there any consensus as to which valve stems work best with asymmetric rims?


We have tubeless valves in stock at our Chinese, American and Canadian warehouses which work well with the asymmetric rims. You can reach out to the appropriate location if you like the look of these. They are anodized black and are alloy so they are lightweight as well. This design has 3 key features:

1. Oversized collar allows you to tighten by hand much easier
2. The collar is concave on one side so it contains the O-ring.
3. The rubber O-ring will swell up under the collar once you tighten it down and it stabilizes the valve stem and seals the hole.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

PositiveIon said:


> I've skimmed some of the previous discussion about rim engineering, however can I bring back this discussion down to the level of a potential LB customer (snowbike with rear 177/TA) who is interested to know what are the most important technical considerations that determine the choice of product. I'm choosing between LB 85 mm rim and Nextie Wild Dragon II. The most obvious differences between these are the rim profiles, with the LB's being considerably lower/flatter (22 mm) compared to the Nextie (40 mm), and the spoke offset is quite different (+/-16 mm compared with +/-2.5 mm if I've got those right). The LB rim design seem to be similar to other brands like Whisky No. 9.
> 
> If we ignore all the other engineering choices in a rim design, I am curious to understand what design priorities led to LB deciding on their flatter rim profile and relatively wide spoke placement. Did LB more or less follow an already-established and proven engineering design? Crucially, why would I choose the LB design over the competing Nextie one? Would one be theoretically better suited to certain types of riding or terrain than another? Is the LB design intended to give a more compliant ride compared to one like the Nextie? Is it possible to say that one of these designs is predicted to have better long-term durability under average riding conditions than the other? Again, let's ignore for the moment most of the other possible considerations such as price, warranty, reputation, build quality, weight, ease of tubeless setup, etc.


Hello,

A few positives/differences to note about the lower profile design:

1. We can have a wider array of drilling options to better suit the width of the hubs.

2. Less prone to rock strikes. The sidewalls on double wall rims are the thinnest part of the system, so a very wide and deep rim has a lot of exposure to getting hit by a sharp edged rock and causing damage.

3. The more obvious physical aspect of the rims would be that they do not ride as stiff as a deeper rim, and that they are lighter.

22mm is about the lowest we can go to maximize the characteristics above while still being able to produce the rim with the removable air bladder.


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

Thanks for that. What is the length of the valve?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Regular Stan's valve stems worked fine with my XC923 asym rims.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

TiGeo said:


> Regular Stan's valve stems worked fine with my XC923 asym rims.


I would only use Stans metal valves, the alloy are not worth the weight savings in my opinion. I have 7 sets on carbon rims, 2 with alloy valves. If your the trail and are rushing to get back on your group ride using a pump that your not familiar with you can break the alloy valve, and that sucks!!

I really like the New Graphics, when will they be available Light Bicycles?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

dgw7000 said:


> I would only use Stans metal valves, the alloy are not worth the weight savings in my opinion. I have 7 sets on carbon rims, 2 with alloy valves. If your the trail and are rushing to get back on your group ride using a pump that your not familiar with you can break the alloy valve, and that sucks!!
> 
> I really like the New Graphics, when will they be available Light Bicycles?


I have a set of LB valves on my roadbike and they are pretty flimsy. I will swap them out for Stan's valves for my next tire change.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, I always use the standard non-alloy Stan's valves with no issues on all of my tubeless setups.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm using tune aluminum valves and they're perfectly fine (half the weight of Stan's valve plus long enough for these rims).


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## dgregorie (May 1, 2007)

I need a recommendation for a wheel set. I'm looking for lightweight set to live on my hardtail that will be used for endurance races of 40 miles and up as well as gravel training rides. It will also get swapped onto my 4.5 for some of the rougher endurance races that are a little too rocky for the HT. I'm a middle weight at 165lb, haven't had problems with wheel damage in the past, but do live in a rocky area. I'm currently thinking about going with either the 23interal width or 24internal width 29er rim with 28 spokes front and rear. Thoughts?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

SikeMo said:


> Thanks for that. What is the length of the valve?


35mm and 44mm are in stock at the US and Canada warehouse, the Chinese location has many sizes in stock.

Rims Depth	Recommended Tubeless Valves Length
under 26mm	35mm
27mm~34mm	44mm
35mm~40mm	55mm
45mm~49mm	60mm
50mm~55mm	70mm
60mm~65mm	90mm
80mm~90mm	110mm


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

dgw7000 said:


> I would only use Stans metal valves, the alloy are not worth the weight savings in my opinion. I have 7 sets on carbon rims, 2 with alloy valves. If your the trail and are rushing to get back on your group ride using a pump that your not familiar with you can break the alloy valve, and that sucks!!
> 
> I really like the New Graphics, when will they be available Light Bicycles?


I have only seen the alloy valve break when it was smashed into with a rock or stick from the trail. I have been running alloy for years and have not had any issues.

Which graphics were you looking for? The road waterslide graphics?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

dgregorie said:


> I need a recommendation for a wheel set. I'm looking for lightweight set to live on my hardtail that will be used for endurance races of 40 miles and up as well as gravel training rides. It will also get swapped onto my 4.5 for some of the rougher endurance races that are a little too rocky for the HT. I'm a middle weight at 165lb, haven't had problems with wheel damage in the past, but do live in a rocky area. I'm currently thinking about going with either the 23interal width or 24internal width 29er rim with 28 spokes front and rear. Thoughts?


We have 4 different rims you could look at.

Inner width//Outer Width//Height

22//27//24 - RM29C06 - 280g (Flyweight version)
22//27//24 - RM29C06 - 360g (Standard version)
23//28//23 - XC923 - 370g 
24//30//25 - RM29C19 - 395g

I've ridden all 4 and for racing I prefer the flyweights for racing as they are just ridiculously light and have taken their share of abuse with no issues. I just did 50 miles and over 3,400 meters of climbing very hard trails yesterday. I was definitely appreciating their low weight in the final hours of the day... The regular version is quite a bit cheaper but it adds more weight so at that point I'd go with the RM29C19's instead. These will suit the 4.5c better as it's an all around trail rim which is wider and stiffer than the other rims listed. I have the luxury of using the flyweights for big days and then I throw on some wider wheels and proper 2.3 Minions for trail duty. The XC923's split the difference in width and won't ride quite as stiff which could be desirable on the hard tail depending on your preferences.

So if you care the most about racing the most, go with the lightest option. If you want to have the most fun and still be able to have a race worth wheel go with the RM29C19's. If you are on the fence with either of those description the XC923's won't disappoint.

On my builds I tend to stick with 32h as the rotational weight is as low as possible. The production numbers are way higher on 32h and they have more holes in them so the average rim weights are the lightest. You save a bit of weight on spokes but it's minimal unless you are going with brass nipples and heavy gauge spokes (which you won't be so that's not an issue). If you break a spoke during a race on a 32h wheel it won't be a big deal, the trueness will be effected very little. If you want a softer feeling wheel for the hardtail, then perhaps 28h is viable there as it will help a bit, but I wouldn't rely on it as a significant weight savings option.


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## dgregorie (May 1, 2007)

Thanks for the info. What size tires are you running on the flyweights? I have a set of heavy duty wheels that I run with Minions when I'm hammering on the 4.5c but one of the things I love about that bike is that all I really have to change is the wheels and it's pretty good for longer xc races in rough terrain.


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## guppie (Jan 26, 2004)

Can you buildup a wheelset on Hope hubs?


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## we78 (Nov 6, 2009)

So unfortunately I came back from a ride today and noticed that the rear rim cracked on both sides near the valve. Its not leaking air but there is a noticeable bulge on both sides of the rim.
These rims are 2.5 years old, this is the RM29C02 model, the All Mountain wheelset.
I'm not sure if 2.5 years is considered alot in rim lifetime. This weelset was installed on my trail bike Ibis Ripley four about 1.5 years. Then I sold it and they were on my 100mm XC bike Canondale Scalpel. About that time the rear wheel started to have broken spokes pretty often, after replacing 5-6 of the original build by LB I've had them rebuilt by a local wheel builder with the same kind of spokes LB used. I always made sure I ride with alteast 30psi in the rear wheel, same as today. I think the rim cracked after I rode through a small rock garden section on a blue xc trail. I am a light rider 75kg with gear and I ride quite smoothly, never broke/dented a rim before in my 5 years riding.
Anyway this is pretty disappointing, I don't think I will get carbon rims again.. too expensive. There are excellent alloy rims on the market now. I emailed LB warranty but they don't awe me anything since the warrantly is for 1 year only.
I guess its not safe to keep riding with the rim this way..


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

For the price of LB rims, I think 2.5 years is considered good ROI if you ride often. Personally, I think all carbon rims will fail one day. As such, warranty period and good customer support are critical. If I ever buy carbon rims again, it will be Reserve for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

guppie said:


> Can you buildup a wheelset on Hope hubs?


According to the US website, if you prefer dt swiss or hope hubs, you'll have to order from their international website instead:








Light Bicycle International

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

chris9888 said:


> Personally, I think all carbon rims will fail one day. As such, warranty period and good customer support are critical.


On that note, you'll get a kick out of this, Danny MacAskill Smashing Santa Cruz Carbon Wheels: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/danny-macaskill-carbon-wheel-crushing-video.html


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

MattMay said:


> On that note, you'll get a kick out of this, Danny MacAskill Smashing Santa Cruz Carbon Wheels: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/danny-macaskill-carbon-wheel-crushing-video.html


That is insane!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I just posted that on our local FB page, sick. I mean, they are strong as hell.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

I'm 6'5, 185......without camelback/water.

Any thoughts on a RM29C06 ?? Am I too heavy?

Endurance SS riding....I don't feel like my riding style trashes wheels....but I have broken at least a dozen spokes on my current Stans Arch EX's in the past few years and they're apparently out of round and on their last legs.


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## we78 (Nov 6, 2009)

Just wanted to update that LB got back to me and offered an 8% discount on new rims. I guess thats nice of them considering the fact that they are no longer under warranty. Not sure if I will order them or just build the wheel with Stan Arch MK3


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

we78 said:


> Just wanted to update that LB got back to me and offered an 8% discount on new rims. I guess thats nice of them considering the fact that they are no longer under warranty. Not sure if I will order them or just build the wheel with Stan Arch MK3


I have 2 sets of wheels built out with RM29C14 rims that I have been beating up for the last 2 to 3 years and been happy with them. Hoping they will last another 2 to 3 years, but if not I have definitively got good use/mileage out of them so far.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

we78 said:


> Just wanted to update that LB got back to me and offered an 8% discount on new rims. I guess thats nice of them considering the fact that they are no longer under warranty. Not sure if I will order them or just build the wheel with Stan Arch MK3


Why not try a different brand?

2017 MTB RSD HV Carbon Bike Rims-Yishunbike

Pick as strong a layup as you want.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

I’ve been rocking AM928’s with Onyx hubs for a little over a month. I’m about 250lbs and smash over rocky trails frequently. No issues yet, pretty happy with LB!


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

An arch mk3 isn't a strong wheel. It's a good ht rim simply because it does flex vertically. If you want strong and aluminum it's the ex471 or ex511. They can take a beating


Also consider the enduro layer heavy rims from lb


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## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

we78 said:


> About that time the rear wheel started to have broken spokes pretty often, after replacing 5-6 of the original build by LB *I've had them rebuilt by a local wheel builder* with the same kind of spokes LB used.


Maybe it is your problem or kind of. Not much local wheel builders use flax seed oil or spoke oil -on spoke thread and nipple- when lacing a new wheel. And not very often they use a tension-meter.

I'm not saying your local wheel builder did something wrong, but carbon rims do have to be built by the book.


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## jtaylor996 (Jul 8, 2016)

Sorry for not being here to argue, just to say I like my LB wheels A WHOLE LOT right now 










The only problem is now after seeing other pics in this thread is that I'm thinking "man, why didn't I go with the orange graphics??". LOL first world problems.

Those are the 29C14 rims, DT350, and 2.6" Nobby Nics on them.


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

jtaylor996 said:


> The only problem is now after seeing other pics in this thread is that I'm thinking "man, why didn't I go with the orange graphics??". LOL first world problems.


I hear you brother!

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk


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## hvc (Aug 13, 2011)

light bicycle said:


> Yes, we've got some alternate graphics we're trying. We had done a poll showing quite a few design ideas and this one was the most popular so this is what we'll likely go with. We're testing these in glossy black, and a few colors before finalizing.
> 
> View attachment 1133459


When will this design available ?

Thanks,
HVC


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## DJ Giggity (Sep 9, 2008)

hvc said:


> When will this design available ?
> 
> Thanks,
> HVC


You can get them now. They are pretty subtle.


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## hvc (Aug 13, 2011)

DJ Giggity said:


> You can get them now. They are pretty subtle.
> 
> View attachment 1162978


Thanks for the picture. Their website is still showing the old design.

HVC.


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

I'm also curious about the new graphics. They are not on the www.lightbicycle.com website.

Also, is anyone running the 650BC05 wheel thats 30mm internal, 35mm external, 25.5mm tall? I'm considering a set through light bicycle, laced to dt swiss 350 hubs. I'm wondering if the heavy duty version is worth the weight and price increase over the all mountain version. I'm trending towards it being that I'm a fairly aggressive rider, 190 lb, on a full suspension in Colorado.

Would love some input from someone who is running them now.


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## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

deleted


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## birdrider (Jan 13, 2015)

I'm here to report my second cracked rear rim. I think I'm done with LB and will be looking for other alternatives.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

birdrider said:


> I'm here to report my second cracked rear rim. I think I'm done with LB and will be looking for other alternatives.


No details, but everyone is to assume the rim is faulty.

Sort of like the I was just riding along and ......


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## MikeRock98 (Apr 17, 2013)

id just like to give a complete 1 year review.

My rims were built by me and trued by a professional. I used Sapim Spokes with Brass DT nipples for my build. I oiled each nipple with phils tenacious oil like ive done in the past with all my wheel. I have hadley hubs and went with the 38mm od 31.8 id rims in the HD build with came out to 505g and 510g. I did have them re-tensioned after about 1000 miles but have been perfect since. 

Im 6'1 200lbs. and ride aggressive. I travel once a month at least to all types of mountains. These rims have over 3000 miles in the last 364 days. I cracked my 16 scott genius before i cracked the rims. I broke 4 pivot bolts on my frame before i broke these rims. Broke my Fox 34 damper and my Fox Nude 3 rear shock before i broke the rims. Its pretty safe to say the other companies have a better reputation than LB but all those parts have broke this year and my wheels are still ticking. 

They are dead straight and been a great investment so far. 

For disclosure....all those companies have warrantied all the broken parts otherwise this would have been a real expensive year on the bike.

Happy Holidays and Happy New Years


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

I’m a bit curious about the AM733 rims. Currently on Stans Flow MK3 rims which I’ve been very happy with using 2.6 tyres. Wondering if getting the LB rims would be a marked improvement? Rim weight looks roughly the same.


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## cchough (Apr 26, 2006)

I'm on my third set of LB wheels, all built on DT240S with Sapim CX-Ray spokes. And by third I mean all three are currently in use. I have the AM728, EN733 and set of 700c wheels. All came from LB perfectly true and have remained that way. I'm not super tough on wheels but I've taken some pretty hard hits to the rim that didn't leave a mark. Would definitely buy from LB again - just wish they sold DT hubs through the NA site.


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## luchi87 (May 4, 2009)

Did you end up buying from the Chinese site then instead of the NA site?


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

I am reporting back on my experience with Light Bicycle's Flyweight XC rims. I had a professional wheelbuilder lace them up to a pair of DT Swiss hubs with Sapim X-Ray spokes. I rode them for about 4 months as light duty cross country wheels and much of this time I did not ride on them at all due to an injury. I am 150 lbs. and ride at about 30 psi.  I did not crash or take any big drops with them. I have not even ridden them in any rocky or difficult terrain. I also have NEVER broken a rim before. However a couple weeks ago at an XC race which is considered to be an extremely tame course the rear rim developed a small crack. I am not happy about Light Bicycle's performance or their marketing these rims as an XC purpose rim.

What is more disappointing is Light Bicycle's lack of response on this issue as it took them nearly 2 weeks to get back to the shop that built them. They also have not responded to my messages to them on this site. They offered the shop a 25% discount as a crash replacement when the rims were clearly not crashed, then when questioned on their policy they offered a 50% discount.

I'm giving Light Bicycle one last chance to do the right thing and stand by their product. I expect either a complete replacement at no cost or a full refund. If I don't get a response here on MTBR or through the shop I ordered them from I will never use their rims again and I will start actively recommending against using Light Bicycle rims.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

That's weird since I have 50mm 27.5 and 29 + which are over 2 years old and ridden them in all sort of terrain, rocky and fallen trees and knock on wood; haven't had any issues with them and I do weigh about 205 lbs with my bag.

Sorry to hear about your inconvenience.


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

Nash04 said:


> That's weird since I have 50mm 27.5 and 29 + which are over 2 years old and ridden them in all sort of terrain, rocky and fallen trees and knock on wood; haven't had any issues with them and I do weigh about 205 lbs with my bag.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your inconvenience.


Yeah my problem occurred with the Flyweight rims which I think are quite a bit different design than the rims you are talking about. But like I said I am 150 lbs. and ride XC only so I feel I am not operating outside their intended purpose.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

ohmygato said:


> I am reporting back on my experience with Light Bicycle's Flyweight XC rims. I had a professional wheelbuilder lace them up to a pair of DT Swiss hubs with Sapim X-Ray spokes. I rode them for about 4 months as light duty cross country wheels and much of this time I did not ride on them at all due to an injury. I am 150 lbs. and ride at about 30 psi. I did not crash or take any big drops with them. I have not even ridden them in any rocky or difficult terrain. I also have NEVER broken a rim before. However a couple weeks ago at an XC race which is considered to be an extremely tame course the rear rim developed a small crack. I am not happy about Light Bicycle's performance or their marketing these rims as an XC purpose rim.
> 
> What is more disappointing is Light Bicycle's lack of response on this issue as it took them nearly 2 weeks to get back to the shop that built them. They also have not responded to my messages to them on this site. They offered the shop a 25% discount as a crash replacement when the rims were clearly not crashed, then when questioned on their policy they offered a 50% discount.
> 
> I'm giving Light Bicycle one last chance to do the right thing and stand by their product. I expect either a complete replacement at no cost or a full refund. If I don't get a response here on MTBR or through the shop I ordered them from I will never use their rims again and I will start actively recommending against using Light Bicycle rims.


Can you post pics?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Mine are beefier for sure, the 38mm external with 31.6mm internal by 38mm deep, but they have been bomb proof. The flyweight designation says something. How many spokes does the rim take? Something that light will need all the help it can get to stay together. Carbon fiber is strong, but your rims have half as much as mine.


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

spsoon said:


> Can you post pics?


Yeah actually I would appreciate you taking a look at this and letting me know what you think the failure mode was. These were taken immediately after the race when I saw the crack.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

That looks like an impact for sure. A stress crack/separated layers ect wouldn't protrude like that, at least I don't think.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm no expert, I was just curious to see what kind of damage we're talking about. But to me that looks like a pretty serious rim strike. Maybe a beefier rim would have survived, and that's the trade-off on the ultralight versions.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

machine4321 said:


> That looks like an impact for sure. A stress crack/separated layers ect wouldn't protrude like that, at least I don't think.


Yeah, you can even see a bit of a crease where the wall must have folded.

Edit:
There's dirt in the tire/rim interface as well. Pretty clear that it must have hit something. I would be thankful you were able to finish the race!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

You might not remeber hitting something but as mentioned those pictures sure make it look like you had a pretty solid hit.


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah I hear you on this and I was wondering the same thing, but I did not hit the rim on anything. I have done about 12 races on this same course using some old Stans rims and a rigid bike and I have never had any problems. So my reasoning is that if these rims can't survive a single cross country race on a course I've ridden a dozen times before on other rims, they are really not up to the task of light XC racing at all. And keep in mind I have NEVER broken a wheel until this race. In fact the whole experience has me thinking that I should just switch back to Stans and get away from this carbon BS altogether.

LB marketed these rims as XC race rims. I went for it because I weigh 150 lbs. and only ride XC, plus I have never damaged a rim.

Is it typical that carbon rims will just crack open like this where aluminum rims won't? If that's the case I am going to give up on LB and all other carbon rims altogether.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ohmygato said:


> Yeah I hear you on this and I was wondering the same thing, but I did not hit the rim on anything. I have done about 12 races on this same course using some old Stans rims and a rigid bike and I have never had any problems. So my reasoning is that if these rims can't survive a single cross country race on a course I've ridden a dozen times before on other rims, they are really not up to the task of light XC racing at all. And keep in mind I have NEVER broken a wheel until this race. In fact the whole experience has me thinking that I should just switch back to Stans and get away from this carbon BS altogether.
> 
> LB marketed these rims as XC race rims. I went for it because I weigh 150 lbs. and only ride XC, plus I have never damaged a rim.
> 
> Is it typical that carbon rims will just crack open like this where aluminum rims won't? If that's the case I am going to give up on LB and all other carbon rims altogether.


What does riding the same trail with other wheels have to do with anything, the trail changes, you take different lines etc...
Personally think you're overreacting but whatever, for all you know that hit would bent the crap out of you stans rim


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

That is definitely a rim strike and those paper thin rims are not tough. They are light. How much air pressure were you running and on what size tire?


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> What does riding the same trail with other wheels have to do with anything, the trail changes, you take different lines etc...
> Personally think you're overreacting but whatever, for all you know that hit would bent the crap out of you stans rim


So you're saying that you would use the exact same LB Flyweight rims again and trust them completely for XC racing on that same course when you have ridden other wheels there 12 times and never had any problems? No thank you.

I'm not asking for your support here, but I'm not looking for ridiculous suggestions either.


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

Prophet Julio said:


> That is definitely a rim strike and those paper thin rims are not tough. They are light. How much air pressure were you running and on what size tire?


About 30 psi, 2.25.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

That last guy I saw bust a rim didn't know he did until he lost his tubeless, it was an aluminum HED a few weeks ago. He hit it somewhere before, but wasn't aware of it. The last one I busted I didn't know at the time, only figured it out half a mile later, although I knew I hit something, a quick look did not seem to indicate any damage. I've busted a significant number of aluminum rims, one carbon rim because I meant to, but didn't add air before a ride. Totally happy with my carbon Nexties and LB rims, wouldn't be taking em on hundred mile rides if I wasn't confident about em.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ohmygato said:


> So you're saying that you would use the exact same LB Flyweight rims again and trust them completely for XC racing on that same course when you have ridden other wheels there 12 times and never had any problems? No thank you.
> 
> I'm not asking for your support here, but I'm not looking for ridiculous suggestions either.


You're the one being ridiculous


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

Jayem said:


> That last guy I saw bust a rim didn't know he did until he lost his tubeless, it was an aluminum HED a few weeks ago. He hit it somewhere before, but wasn't aware of it. The last one I busted I didn't know at the time, only figured it out half a mile later, although I knew I hit something, a quick look did not seem to indicate any damage. I've busted a significant number of aluminum rims, one carbon rim because I meant to, but didn't add air before a ride. Totally happy with my carbon Nexties and LB rims, wouldn't be taking em on hundred mile rides if I wasn't confident about em.


Do you use the LB Flyweights or something else? I had heard a few concerns about them before using them but they seemed to meet my intended purspose so I went for it. I am really questioning that decision now though.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ohmygato said:


> Do you use the LB Flyweights or something else? I had heard a few concerns about them before using them but they seemed to meet my intended purspose so I went for it. I am really questioning that decision now though.


No, but I'm heavily considering ordering some T800 light rims from Nextie/LB/carbonspeed for xc racing as a race-only wheelset. I have Nextie and LB rims, 2x sets of each, the oldest are about 4-5 years old and have been used for everything from DH race to endurance XC.


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## Mt.Biker E (Mar 25, 2006)

I'm currently debating between the BC05 from LB:
https://www.lightbicycle.com/Hookle...mm-wide-AM-27-5-rims-tubeless-compatible.html

and the Nextie NXT27WC38:
[Asymmetric] [NXT27WC38] [All Mountain] 38mm Width Carbon Fiber 27.5" / 650B MTB Rim Clincher Hookless Tubeless Compatible

Any thoughts between the 2? Rim Depth? Ect..
These are going on the Calling I am building up


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

Jayem said:


> No, but I'm heavily considering ordering some T800 light rims from Nextie/LB/carbonspeed for xc racing as a race-only wheelset. I have Nextie and LB rims, 2x sets of each, the oldest are about 4-5 years old and have been used for everything from DH race to endurance XC.


If I understand the materials correctly that T800 would be what they use in the Flyweights which is the one I busted. That one I am going to replace with something heavier duty. The one that's still on the bike will probably break eventually too and at that point I'll upgrade it to something heavier as well.

Which Nextie and LB rims are you using now? Do you have a set of the LB Standard weight rims that have held up?


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi ohmygato,

I was concerned when I heard about you Customer Service experience, so I looked into it a little more with our Global team. As for the wait period, I just spoke to the Global support team and they explained that they did not receive the warranty claim from the shop until February 26. From there, we looked at the claim and got back to the shop to say that we had decided that this was not a warranty (see more below) and offered a 25% crash replacement. After talking to the shop a little more, that was bumped to a 50% off crash replacement.

We didn't hear anything from you or the shop afterwards, so assumed that everything was resolved.

Typically a warranty issue comes in the form of a lamination issue whereby the layer come apart, or a warp due to improper curing. Nowadays both of these issues are VERY rare. Once a process has been dialed, it is reliable and consistent. Carbon is stronger, and lighter than any alloy rim out there...but the trade off is that it cracks whereas an alloy rim would dent or taco.

The LB Flyweight is undoubtedly a race focused rim. Ideal for experienced racers who are looking for every possible edge. That being said, you can rest assured that they've been tested to handle some heinous terrain. We tested them out here in BC for 6 months under the legs of former national champions, trials riders and well known shredders. We've put them through the paces of enduro courses, chundery terrain with lots of rocks, roots and you name it. We had riders case drops badly enough that they blew the tire off the rim and it still didn't crack.

In short, those rims are strong, but nothing (alloy, carbon, any bike part) is indestructible. The nature of carbon rims and especially an XC focused rim such as this, is that it won't have the same sort of impact strength that a trail or enduro rim might have. This makes it vulnerable to rim bottom outs or rock strikes. Based on the photos, it appears that something must have come in contact with the rim. That is the only way a crack like that can occur. This didn't necessarily have to have occurred on the ride you noticed it, but perhaps a previous ride.

I hope that answers some of your questions and concerns. If you have any others, feel free to reply here, email us at either [email protected] or [email protected].


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

light bicycle said:


> Hi ohmygato,
> 
> I was concerned when I heard about you Customer Service experience, so I looked into it a little more with our Global team. As for the wait period, I just spoke to the Global support team and they explained that they did not receive the warranty claim from the shop until February 26. From there, we looked at the claim and got back to the shop to say that we had decided that this was not a warranty (see more below) and offered a 25% crash replacement. After talking to the shop a little more, that was bumped to a 50% off crash replacement.
> 
> We didn't hear anything from you or the shop afterwards, so assumed that everything was resolved.


Hi light bicycle,

I hope you are just personally misinformed on this issue and not purposefully trying to mislead us. Please see the dialogue between my shop and Light Bicycles which clearly shows the dates they opened the dialogue. I have removed the email addresses and names for confidentiality. If you have any questions about this please respond to my private message to you and we can discuss it over the phone. The reason Light Bicycles has not received further correspondence on this since is because I was trying to get ahold of a LB representative who could actually address this issue.

Email dialogue below:

"Hey Dan,

So after an initial email only offering 25% off a replacement, they now have offered 50% and $5 off the second rim. I'm still disappointed but essentially they seem to see this as a crash replacement, not warranty.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: support LightBicycle 
Date: Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: Your Shipment Notification from Light Bicycle-

Hi,

I am so sorry for the delay to reply! There are too many e-mails waiting to deal with. Hope to get your understanding.

Yes, your our honor customer. Thanks for your continuous support! I have discussed with my manager and told them you are our returning customer. What I can strive for you is offer 50% discount for the crash replacement rim. And I have checked on our stock rims. There are 2 standard RM29C06 rims( matte 3K 28H ) in stock. If you are in urgent, we recommend you to choose the DHL delivery. It is USD75 for 2 rims and take around 5 days to USA.

Please check our quotation as below.
RM29C06 rims: standard, 3K matte,28H, with green stickers, 1 pcs, USD82.5 each(after 50% discount)
RM29C06 rims: standard, 3K matte,28H,with green stickers, 1 pcs, USD160 each(after USD5 cheaper)

Do you want to ship by EMS delivery(USD50 for 2 rims to USA) or DHL delivery? And then I will create an invoice for you accordingly.

Best regards,
Grace

2018-02-25 3:06 GMT+08:00
Hello Grace,

As I previously stated the customer did not hit anything out of the ordinary for riding off road. We had an in depth conversation about where he rides and how, ect. As I previously mentioned he runs fairly high pressure, which should help prevent damage. He rides cross country trails and does nothing that should have resulted in this crack. He does not want another of the same rim, but wants to replace both with the regular versions.

I'm not very satisfied with the customer service I'm receiving. I realize that this process was delayed by Chinese New Years, but the message said you were unavailable until the 22nd, and now it's the 25th. These are race wheels and it's the beginning of race season. I loaned the customer a personal set of wheel so he would not be left unable to race, but I need my wheels back.

This is an opportunity to provide excellent customer service and create a good reputation for Light Bicycle. The offer of 25% of only the replacement rim is not adequate. I've bought a number of rims in the past and hope to continue to, but I need to have faith in your products. What's the best you can do for 2x RM29C06?

Thanks,

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:23 AM, support LightBicycle wrote:
Hi, 
Thanks for your assistance and I am so sorry for the delay to reply!

Could you please have a further check with the customer? Did he hit something else?

I have submitted the file for check. However, it is judged as crash replacement. What we can do is offering 25% discount for the replacement rim.

Let me know if you have any further question.

Best regards,
Grace

2018-02-14 5:05 GMT+08:00
Hello Grace, 
Here are the photos you requested. 
Thanks,

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 8:07 PM, support LightBicycle wrote:
Hi,

I will deal with this issue for you.

Could you please offer the following information to us for check? 
1)Rim serial number picture(the serial number is on rim bed, please make sure the picture is clear enough, otherwise the replacement file can not be approved)
2)The pictures of issue area and the whole rim.(please take clear pictures, otherwise the replacement file can not be approved)

Let us know if you have any further question.

Best regards,
Grace

2018-02-13 12:05 GMT+08:00

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: 2018-02-13 6:48 GMT+08:00
Subject: Re: Your Shipment Notification from Light Bicycle

Hello Kartrin, 
How are you today? A customer of mine just brought in a cracked flyweight rim (RM29C06 Flyweight) from the order above. He's been riding on the wheels for just four months and weighs on 150 lbs. He also runs fairly high tire pressure, about 30psi. He doesn't recall hitting hard while riding and definitely didn't crash. Have you had any problems with these rims? It seems like a warranty situation, but he would rather get a pair of the regular version of this rim (RM29C06 Standard) and not another flyweight. Can you replace one rim as warranty and he will buy a second rim? 
Thanks,"


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

light bicycle said:


> The LB Flyweight is undoubtedly a race focused rim. Ideal for experienced racers who are looking for every possible edge. That being said, you can rest assured that they've been tested to handle some heinous terrain. We tested them out here in BC for 6 months under the legs of former national champions, trials riders and well known shredders. We've put them through the paces of enduro courses, chundery terrain with lots of rocks, roots and you name it. We had riders case drops badly enough that they blew the tire off the rim and it still didn't crack.


Interesting you say that. I have been racing for 15 years, I weigh 150 lbs., I run fairly high pressure, and the terrain that I ride and race on here in northern California is considered to be extremely tame compared to BC. I certainly wouldn't dare take these rims down any enduro courses, chundery terrain with lots of rocks, roots and you name it. I also don't do any jumps or drops. As I mentioned multiple times in this thread I have never broken a wheel.

Don't I sound like the ideal customer for these Flyweight rims to you? That is how they are marketed, that is why I bought them, and that is why I expect the company I bought them from to stand by their products even if that means replacing them free of charge.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ohmygato said:


> Interesting you say that. I have been racing for 15 years, I weigh 150 lbs., I run fairly high pressure, and the terrain that I ride and race on here in northern California is considered to be extremely tame compared to BC. I certainly wouldn't dare take these rims down any enduro courses, chundery terrain with lots of rocks, roots and you name it. I also don't do any jumps or drops. As I mentioned multiple times in this thread I have never broken a wheel.
> 
> Don't I sound like the ideal customer for these Flyweight rims to you? That is how they are marketed, that is why I bought them, and that is why I expect the company I bought them from to stand by their products even if that means replacing them free of charge.


So if you crash and break your frame you expect a free replacement? It's not a defect it's obvious to everyone that have seen the picture you hit something hard.


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> So if you crash and break your frame you expect a free replacement? It's not a defect it's obvious to everyone that have seen the picture you hit something hard.


Of course not! I would never ask a company to replace their products if I crashed them or hit something hard with them.

It seems that you're having a hard time understanding this, so I would like to personally invite you to race with me out here on the beautiful smooth sandy trails in northern California and see for yourself. I'm sure you will enjoy the course. Here are some photos of the race I was at when the rim cracked: About Us


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Dude, I feel bad for your wrecked new wheel, but I don't know how you can look at that and say it didn't hit anything. Maybe it didn't happen that particular day, but it's obviously been smacked hard. If I were in your place, I would be very thankful for a 50% crash replacement.


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## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

Funny, I got on this thread thinking this is just some small Chinese company and therefore they are probably not going to even respond, but thinking that I should at least give them a chance. Now I am leaving this thread realizing that not only are they some small Chinese company but also that they have a rep who takes several days to respond and is either totally misinformed or being purposefully misleading about the communications and history of this issue. I'm done with Light Bicycle. You've clearly proven to me that your XC race wheels are not meant for XC racing the way they are marketed.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi ohmygato, 

We certainly weren't trying to mislead you! I was misinformed by our Global team about when you had contacted them, so I'm sorry about that. 

As was mentioned in the email thread, the reason it took so long for a reply was because the offices were closed for Chinese New Year during that period and, when they did come back, were pretty back logged after the holidays. 

In the future, if you are ever need difficulty, our North American Sales team is also available and will either help resolve your issue or make sure that is gets resolved by the Global team.

Anyways, I don't want to take over this forum with this discussion, but we'd be happy to either continue this discussion via email or phone (1-253-216-2535)


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## Mt.Biker E (Mar 25, 2006)

spsoon said:


> Dude, I feel bad for your wrecked new wheel, but I don't know how you can look at that and say it didn't hit anything. Maybe it didn't happen that particular day, but it's obviously been smacked hard. If I were in your place, I would be very thankful for a 50% crash replacement.


/walmart syndrome.
Obviously an impact. Just because you don't remember it happening in a race or out riding when you concentrating and riding hard, especially if you are tapped out, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I've smacked my shoulders on trees and don't remember doing it until the bruise shows up. That and its a carbon fly weight race rim. That's the trade off with ultra light wheels, especially when you opt for a brand that is considerably less than name brands. Its like complaining about a set of race ultra soft race tires not lasting a whole season. There not meant to.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

30psi isn't all that high, I have to run more than that when riding aggressively to avoid bottoming the rim. I can kind of get away with around that psi for general non-aggressive, but I have to be careful with that, as one bad hit and it can be done. Yeah, lots of people saying they run 18-20 psi these days on normal size tires, but tubeless and everything else doesn't change the psi I can bottom the rim at.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ohmygato said:


> Funny, I got on this thread thinking this is just some small Chinese company and therefore they are probably not going to even respond, but thinking that I should at least give them a chance. Now I am leaving this thread realizing that not only are they some small Chinese company but also that they have a rep who takes several days to respond and is either totally misinformed or being purposefully misleading about the communications and history of this issue. I'm done with Light Bicycle. You've clearly proven to me that your XC race wheels are not meant for XC racing the way they are marketed.


You're the customer everyone who's ever worked retail love to see the door hit in the ass on the way out. Won't publicly say it, but everyone is thinking yes they aren't coming back!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ohmygato said:


> Yeah actually I would appreciate you taking a look at this and letting me know what you think the failure mode was. These were taken immediately after the race when I saw the crack.
> 
> View attachment 1185260
> View attachment 1185261
> View attachment 1185262


Here are the pictures from the one carbon rim that I've managed to crack. Not being easy on wheels, I've killed plenty of aluminum rims in my day, so one out of the 8 carbon rims I own isn't too bad, but the failure was entirely my fault. I had meant to put more pressure in before the long epic ride I went on, and for some reason I just didn't do it. Riding at speed I hit a g-out section where there were these rock-culverts built into the trail, kind of like a small "gap" not large enough for your wheel to fit into, but enough that there was a defined edge that you could still slam. I slammed it with my rear wheel and heard a loud bang, like I might have bottomed the shock. I immediately got off and looked over the bike, everything seemed ok. I think I only looked at it from one side, but again, to the untrained eye, everything seemed fine, so I kept riding on. A few hundred feet later, I felt some sealant spraying on my leg and got off to see why that was happening, that was when I noticed the carbon buckled. It was obvious working backwards, the hit must have been the rim. I put a tube on it and rode pretty hard for the remaining 10 or so miles, 7 of which was a fun as heck downhill with fast speeds and stuff, the rim still held together admirably for being compromised. Ordered a new one as a crash-replacement and built up a backup alu-wheel (cheaper) too have just in case I ever ran into that problem again on my most-frequently used bike.

Given how much I've ridden these things and where, I don't fault the rim for failing. An alu rim would have flat-spotted in the same situation and also would have needed replacing. Otherwise, I have other sets that have seen lots of abuse, DH races, etc., going strong. These were Nexties BTW, but basically the same type of construction obviously.

The damage appears to look very similar to the above.


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## GMM (Mar 2, 2004)

30 psi is quite conservative for a 150 lb rider. I weigh 173 lbs (before bike pack) and ride rougher terrain that what the OP is describing (Downvieville, Tahoe) and haven't been over 28 lbs in years.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

GMM said:


> 30 psi is quite conservative for a 150 lb rider. I weigh 173 lbs (before bike pack) and ride rougher terrain that what the OP is describing (Downvieville, Tahoe) and haven't been over 28 lbs in years.


Well, it's been years since I did Downieville, which was back in the 2000s, but back then, on probably the same width tires you are using, I couldn't use below 30 and had to be at least up around 35 in the rear, or I'd be risking denting the rim. Wonder what changed?


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Hi 

I'm considering the RM650BC13 (heavy duty) rim to relace some Sun ringle hubs. Issue, they're 24 holes. I'm some 220lb with full kit, and the wheels will be used on a 170/150mm travel FS and a 120mm travel HT. Don't do massive jumps, haven't taco'd a rim in almost 20 years and tend to use higher pressures rather than lower. 
Would the rims be strong enough? Anyone has any experience with that small spoke count? Propietary wheels come in 24/28, ERD is almos the same as the actual 26' rim (actually the 26 rim has 1mm bigger ERD) so what with carbon being more rigid, rims being wider and reinforced, would you think I could safely use them?

Thanks


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

I run the standard 28 hole 29ers and have bombed the crap out of them on both a suspension bike AND a hardtail. Weigh about the same as you and have no issues with rim strength, even after a 20+Mph into a sharp rock that I didn't see/adjust for. I also did @ 4 jump runs at the bike park with 3 broken spokes on my rear and just needed a quick tune from the shop to get it all perfect.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Great to hear, thanks SprSonik. 

By rule of thumb, the smaller diameter (27.5 vs 29) could compensate the smaller spoke count (24 vs 28) so I wouldn't have to overtension them: any wheelbuilder guru like to confirm if the logic is sound? 

Nice to know they'll stay in shape even with broken spokes (btw, where you using straigh gauge & brass nipples or butted & alloy?). 

Cheers!


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

Straight guage w/alloy nipples. I've lost about 7 spokes over 1.5 yrs, but 3 were tied to impact. Not apples to apples, but I run 24 spoke Easton EC 70 carbon hoops on my SS and I bomb the crap out of that bike too. Lost 1 spoke on it over @ 1500 miles, and have not even trued the wheels since buying them. Spoke count isn't as important as a good builder The only damage I have on my LB hoops is a tiny flat spot from my rock strike. Considering the rock strike immediately blew my tire and I had to slow from 20+ on a rocky section, I will take it. Didn't even affect tire seating or air retention on the tubeless set up.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Well, you've just tipped the scales  First foray into carbon wheels it is!

Thanks for the replies, really useful and to the point.


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## superlightracer (Feb 11, 2004)

SprSonik said:


> Straight guage w/alloy nipples. I've lost about 7 spokes over 1.5 yrs, but 3 were tied to impact. Not apples to apples, but I run 24 spoke Easton EC 70 carbon hoops on my SS and I bomb the crap out of that bike too. Lost 1 spoke on it over @ 1500 miles, and have not even trued the wheels since buying them. Spoke count isn't as important as a good builder The only damage I have on my LB hoops is a tiny flat spot from my rock strike..


I would recommend you use double butted spokes- i wouldn't be surprised if you stopped breaking spokes as a result. Even if you're a hard charging heavy rider, 32x 2.0/1.8mm spoke will be plenty strong. Also- use of straight gauge spokes will void warranty on an LB rim. Spokes are designed to stretch to some degree, especially double butted spokes. It helps disperse impacts and soften impacts- sort of like suspension. The natural place for a spoke to stretch is on its butted section. If the spoke is straight gauge, that force will go to the nipple or the head of the spoke. Best case scenario, it breaks in those places. Worst case scenario it pulls through the rim.

Spoke count is important. The less spokes you have, the more tension each spoke has to carry, which means it fatigues faster, and is closer to it's breaking point. We've found that people break spokes at a rate that is consistent with spoke count. A person with a 24h mtb wheel will break more spokes than someone with a 28, who will break spokes more than someone with a 32. Unless you're a 150lb XC pinner, just go 28 or 32 for peace of mind. The weight saving benefits are negligible especially when you factor in that with LB, the rims are designed according to their drilling. (a 24h rim will weigh more than a 32h rim because it is designed to have more material to compensate for the lack of spokes)

Having a good wheel builder is also important, but I think the mystique with wheelbuilding is pretty overplayed. If you lace correctly, and then tension correctly, you will have a strong wheel. It's not a dark art.


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

I could be wrong on the spokes (wheels were built almost 2 yrs ago), and am actually debating respoking the wheelset (and possibly going to an Onyx hub while I am at it). And I totally agree on spoke count. If weight isn't an issue, or max strength is the primary concern, ABSOLUTELY go with 32. But for what most people do, that is overkill. My personal philosophy with gear is to use the most efficient means to acheive my results, as in don't overbike. My (+/-) 20lb SS is light weight carbon everywhere, and even when running rigid, where the components took all the force of every impact, I have yet to see a part failure. I even ditched my custom spec FS trail bike for a Santa Cruz Chameleon hardtail (first alu bike in @ 10 yrs) to save some weight and have more fun on the ride. As to wheelbuilders, you are right as well, it is not a dark art, but not everyone who builds wheels is good.


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

I hope you like them as much as I do. been 3 yrs exclusively on carbon wheels now, and cannot imagine riding aluminum again. I am actually pulling the hub from the stock (Race Face AR 40) wheelset off my new bike and getting a carbon 27.5+ hoop to lace it to. Unless I decide to go big $$$ and get an Onyx hub for my current wheel and move the I9 to the new one.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

I tend to agree, I would go for 28h as the best compromise, but the issue here is that I have some great 24h hubs gathering dust and I would like to relace them with some quality rims. 24h alu rims are out of the question, as they are hard to find and I believe, more "accident prone" than carbon with just 24 h (Velocity Blunt SS was the only ones I found).

Weight is not an issue, and while I would prefer lighter rims, I am happy to get the enduro version of the RC13 as long as they are strong enough. 

The reasoning, which SprSonic has helped to confirm, is that carbon rims make up in strength for a smaller spoke count. I agree that it is not a linear relationship, and that 28h would be better, but for butted spokes (which I will use) and a reinforced rim, 24h will be adequate. 

The propietary spoke count argument could be brought up: Mavic, SR, DT, Easton, use or have used 24h in their rims (I have a pair of 26" SR Charger Pro which I've treated mercilessly and they just have 24 spokes each, and have had no issue whatsoever with them, great set of wheels). In these cases, the rim tended to be heavier to compensate for the lower spoke count, plus the smaller diameter allowed for less tension (that one I assume, not 100% sure).

The LB rim I am looking at has the same ERD (ergo, internal diameter, correct?) that the 26" alu rim it will replace, so my reasoning was: same internal diameter, stiffer material, reinforced rim and same spoke count vs bigger outer diameter will work. 

Or, let me put it in other terms. Say I wanted to replace the 26" alu rim from the chargers with a 26" LB carbon rim (instead of a 27,5"). Would the argument stand that 24 spokes are too few to support the new carbon rim? That would imply that the charger alu rim was stronger than a reinforced carbon rim. 

Maybe SprSonic has been lucky with his rims (and unlucky with the spokes) but he sounds as he knows his stuff, and his experience is pretty solid. It would be great if I could get a couple more examples from other users, but I guess there's not many people out there that would go for the 24h solution.

Thanks anyway, appreciate your comment.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

SprSonik said:


> I hope you like them as much as I do. been 3 yrs exclusively on carbon wheels now, and cannot imagine riding aluminum again. I am actually pulling the hub from the stock (Race Face AR 40) wheelset off my new bike and getting a carbon 27.5+ hoop to lace it to. Unless I decide to go big $$$ and get an Onyx hub for my current wheel and move the I9 to the new one.


Man, I hope I don't like them that much ove alu, it'll wreck the bank account if I have to replace all my wheelsets for carbon!


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

I am a bigger rider, 210 before gear, but I ride light, like Legolas...Been riding non-stop (minus injury timeouts) since 78, and a lot of that was on SS/Rigid bikes, so I learned to flow vs bash. I also don't mind spending good money on quality parts because I do like to play hard and cheap stuff breaks.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

SprSonik said:


> I am a bigger rider, 210 before gear, but I ride light, like Legolas...Been riding non-stop (minus injury timeouts) since 78, and a lot of that was on SS/Rigid bikes, so I learned to flow vs bash. I also don't mind spending good money on quality parts because I do like to play hard and cheap stuff breaks.




Like the Legolas reference

I like to think I do ride light too. Started decades ago, and had to do with no suspension whatsoever (those Joe Murray's Project 2 forks...what can I say?) so I favour the bike and don't usually break too much stuff...

Yeah, better spend once than have to replace stuff. Learnt that the hard way in my younger years.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

ohmygato said:


> Yeah my problem occurred with the Flyweight rims which I think are quite a bit different design than the rims you are talking about. But like I said I am 150 lbs. and ride XC only so I feel I am not operating outside their intended purpose.


This sounds more like a defective rim than an inherent problem with the design. I'm heavier than you and ride them very hard within an XC context and mine have been fine since June '17. I agree they should send a warranty rim.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

ohmygato said:


> Yeah actually I would appreciate you taking a look at this and letting me know what you think the failure mode was. These were taken immediately after the race when I saw the crack.
> 
> View attachment 1185260
> View attachment 1185261
> View attachment 1185262


Okay, disregard my previous post. That rim was bottomed out against something. Even "burly" rims don't like being bottom out. I've always assumed that my Flyweights will crack if I miss-judge my combination of tire choice, pressure, and how hard I hit things. I've cracked other much heavier carbon and alloy rims from impacts that exceeded my tire's "travel". Last time I killed a LB enduro rim I was offered the same 50% off replacement rim. I got 2 so I'm ready for the next time but that extra is still in my attic.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

SprSonik said:


> Straight guage w/alloy nipples.


There aren't many good reasons to use straight gauge spokes. What are yours?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I don't think I've ever seen a straight guage spoke paired with an alloy nipple.


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## timroost (Sep 9, 2014)

ohmygato said:


> Yeah actually I would appreciate you taking a look at this and letting me know what you think the failure mode was. These were taken immediately after the race when I saw the crack.
> 
> Bummer on the broken rim! If you'd like to try ROOST wheels, I'll set you up with a coupon for a discount - [email protected] - hit me up!


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## whiteox (Aug 11, 2009)

Have just ordered a set of pre-built wheels for the first time thru LB. I've built 3 other sets with their rims previously, but it's worked out cheaper for them to build in-house than for me to gather parts, and spend time building them at home. 

Also, I went with the 38mm non-asymmetric rims for a couple of reasons, one being cheaper price, and the other being availability as they were all in stock. So I've hit order, paid, and now i see in the order processing that one rim is still in the mold and the other is in CNC machining! So there's still more machining, sanding, painting, QC, wheel buiilding and shipping to go. Look's like I'll have my new frame staring at me for a couple of weeks waiting on wheels.. bummer!


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## dustyyoungblood (Jul 6, 2016)

ohmygato said:


> I am reporting back on my experience with Light Bicycle's Flyweight XC rims. I had a professional wheelbuilder lace them up to a pair of DT Swiss hubs with Sapim X-Ray spokes. I rode them for about 4 months as light duty cross country wheels and much of this time I did not ride on them at all due to an injury. I am 150 lbs. and ride at about 30 psi. I did not crash or take any big drops with them. I have not even ridden them in any rocky or difficult terrain. I also have NEVER broken a rim before. However a couple weeks ago at an XC race which is considered to be an extremely tame course the rear rim developed a small crack. I am not happy about Light Bicycle's performance or their marketing these rims as an XC purpose rim.
> 
> What is more disappointing is Light Bicycle's lack of response on this issue as it took them nearly 2 weeks to get back to the shop that built them. They also have not responded to my messages to them on this site. They offered the shop a 25% discount as a crash replacement when the rims were clearly not crashed, then when questioned on their policy they offered a 50% discount.
> 
> I'm giving Light Bicycle one last chance to do the right thing and stand by their product. I expect either a complete replacement at no cost or a full refund. If I don't get a response here on MTBR or through the shop I ordered them from I will never use their rims again and I will start actively recommending against using Light Bicycle rims.


Such a bummer to bust a new rim while racing. And at only 150lb makes it even more suspect. But **** happens, and when racing it happens more often.

You should haven taken that 50% off replacement deal and been super excited about it and yelp reviewed The shop and light bicycle 5 stars for helping you out.

Rebuild the wheel and it will probably not happen again or for a long long time.


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## phazedalx (Jun 22, 2007)

Is anyone running cushcore with LB rims? If I was planning to should I opt for the heavy duty rims?


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

superlightracer said:


> The less spokes you have, the more tension each spoke has to carry, which means it fatigues faster


I think you may be conflating fatigue and plastic failure. Fatigue correlates to the percentage change in spoke tension in use. Lower tensions actually accelerate spoke failure because the relative tension change is larger over each wheel revolution. Highly-tensioned spokes fatigue less, provided they don't experience enough additional tension to enter a plastic deformation zone. This is really where low spoke counts cause problems with mountain wheels: when a spoke is already near its limits, there's little margin to stretch more without a permanent loss in strength.


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## thag (Mar 7, 2012)

phazedalx said:


> Is anyone running cushcore with LB rims? If I was planning to should I opt for the heavy duty rims?


Not running cushcore. But I went with the EN928(Heavy Duty) for the rear wheel and went with the AM928 for the front wheel. They are on my 2017 Slash. Most run the Heavy duty version for the rear wheel (40 grams more carbon).
Have had these on my Slash for one year and they have been perfect.
My trails are full of sharp rocks and rock gardens. I Run 23psi front and 28psi rear.


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## JamesPM (Apr 8, 2009)

I found this Aussie who has a fetish for cutting up Carbon frames and rims..

Take a look at his videos.. For all unwarranted crap LB is getting, they seem to have some of the better manufactured rims out there... way way less voids and other manufacturing defects... Way better than Enve...

This guy has an aviation background and is actually certified to repair composite aircraft..

Home


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## JamesPM (Apr 8, 2009)

ohmygato said:


> Yeah actually I would appreciate you taking a look at this and letting me know what you think the failure mode was. These were taken immediately after the race when I saw the crack.
> 
> View attachment 1185260
> View attachment 1185261
> View attachment 1185262


You are high on Crack cocaine if you think this happened "just riding along on smooth trails" that is some serious impact damage..... Not a warranty issue, you are lucky to get a 50% crash replacement...


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## whiteox (Aug 11, 2009)

Finally got my 29er wheelset, went with 38mm on 28h straight pull DT Swiss 350’s and comp race spokes. Pleasantly surprised they came in at 1610g. This is my 4th set of LB rims, and again I’m impressed with their product quality, and the wheel build is spot on too. Yet to have a first ride on them but on the street they feel awesome as expected. The 54t ratchet upgrade is nice too. Mounted up a 2.5wt high roller II and a dhr II 2.3, can’t wait to see how they feel in the dirt. The 2.5wt blew up massive! Now if would just stop raining....


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## phazedalx (Jun 22, 2007)

hey should my Am933's pop when the beat seats? Never had hookless before...

Scared to go over 40 psi


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

phazedalx said:


> hey should my Am933's pop when the beat seats? Never had hookless before...
> 
> Scared to go over 40 psi


Yes, it will happen usually when seating beads.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Well, I finally did it. Just ordered a pair of heavy duty RM650BC13, 24h rims. LB, build them fast!! (fast but well, that is)

I'll lace them with brass nipples, as they are stronger, correct?

Another wheelbuilding question: the longer the nipple, the stronger the wheel? Overlapping material would make for a stronger overall package, wouldn't you think?

14mm or 16mm? Or would they foul the actual spoke before being correctly tensioned?

Would washer be necessary in carbon rims? 

Anyway, I hope they turn out strong!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I’m not sure I understand why you are concerned with strength when you ordered a 24 hole rim, especially as a “heavy duty” rim. This seems to be contradictory?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Also, I never heard that long nipples are stronger. The spoke has the same amount of threads regardless. I've always built with 12mm nipples.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

@Jayem

Long story short, I'm reusing 24 spoke hubs. Rim ERD is the same, and the original rims did not suffer any catastrophic failure (dings and scratches, no buckling). I am aprehensive as I've never used carbon rims before. Some forum members have offered useful insight on strength and durability, nevertheles I would like to ensure the wheels are strong as possible. If you have any useful advise, other than "don't use 24h rims", much appreciated.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Lelandjt said:


> Also, I never heard that long nipples are stronger. The spoke has the same amount of threads regardless. I've always built with 12mm nipples.


Thanks, makes sense, I would have to extend the threads to have a larger contact area. I'll use 12mm brass nipples.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The LBS that has built me several sets of LB rims uses washers FYI.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

TiGeo said:


> The LBS that has built me several sets of LB rims uses washers FYI.


Did they actually say if they are better for carbon? I have never used them in the wheels I've built/rebuilt, and would like to know the benifits they offer vs no washers. Thanks!


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Pommers said:


> Thanks, makes sense, I would have to extend the threads to have a larger contact area. I'll use 12mm brass nipples.


Two more things: Aluminum nipples (good ones from Sapim or DT) are actually stronger than brass.
The nipple length will determine the spoke length.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Does the rack you carry the bike on, sit on roof, or behind vehicle ?
[this is a question for anyone with CF rims and 1up or Kaut or any hitch rack]

because hitch racks have killed carbon rims plenty of times by exhaust heat, and the rim busts. Now, if the rim is just heated almost to breaking, or simply compromised, but visually fine....and you cannot see it... and it buts JRA, that might be the issue with numerous CF rim failures.

any hitch rack that is close to exhaust, you may need more than just 16 inches away, you need to consider that on the road, exhaust doesn't just go out the rear, it sits in eddys of drag vortex and exhaust can warm up the whole bike-hauling area back there, and if is heating up CF rims....will be problematic. all we see are outright failures, we never see something getting slowly compromised over time


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Lelandjt said:


> Two more things: Aluminum nipples (good ones from Sapim or DT) are actually stronger than brass.
> The nipple length will determine the spoke length.


Spoke length should be the same, as the ERD of the rims I'm replacing is the same as the ones from LB, so that, at least, is something less to worry about.

However, and I'm asking in good faith: alloy nipples are stronger? I have read that they are more prone to failure due to the extra rigidity of carbon rims (being lighter, the nipples suffer more from expansion/compression with each revolution of the wheel). Honestly, there's so much contradicting information going around that I'm at a loss, and for something as small as spoke nipples...

Thanks for the help


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Pommers said:


> Spoke length should be the same, as the ERD of the rims I'm replacing is the same as the ones from LB, so that, at least, is something less to worry about.
> 
> However, and I'm asking in good faith: alloy nipples are stronger? I have read that they are more prone to failure due to the extra rigidity of carbon rims (being lighter, the nipples suffer more from expansion/compression with each revolution of the wheel). Honestly, there's so much contradicting information going around that I'm at a loss, and for something as small as spoke nipples...
> 
> Thanks for the help


an alloy nipple in a carbon rim suffers from galvanic corrosion no matter how strong the alloy is, there is a ticking time-bomb on it when you interface most metals with most carbon. not saying this to panic anyone, they will last forever, but just saying when metal and carbon composites touch, there is certainly small electric current and the molecular fight begins

as far as it being more rigid and does that affect it ? maybe it make the 'galvanic battery' stronger ? there are numerous variables at play to examine and decide for sure what the heck is going on and what affects nipple longevity.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Pommers said:


> @Jayem
> 
> Long story short, I'm reusing 24 spoke hubs. Rim ERD is the same, and the original rims did not suffer any catastrophic failure (dings and scratches, no buckling). I am aprehensive as I've never used carbon rims before. Some forum members have offered useful insight on strength and durability, nevertheles I would like to ensure the wheels are strong as possible. If you have any useful advise, other than "don't use 24h rims", much appreciated.


The thing is that you are going to either end up with flexier wheels, or higher stress risers, IMO. If you are trying to "make up for" it being a 24 spoke wheel, you would naturally try to over-tension the spokes, possibly some stronger spokes and nipples, like you are mentioning, but you'll be stressing the spoke holes more than if it was a 32 hole rim. If you go with the normal tension, it'll end up inherently flexier. Maybe not past the point of being unacceptable, but IMO you give and take with wheels.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Jayem said:


> The thing is that you are going to either end up with flexier wheels, or higher stress risers, IMO. If you are trying to "make up for" it being a 24 spoke wheel, you would naturally try to over-tension the spokes, possibly some stronger spokes and nipples, like you are mentioning, but you'll be stressing the spoke holes more than if it was a 32 hole rim. If you go with the normal tension, it'll end up inherently flexier. Maybe not past the point of being unacceptable, but IMO you give and take with wheels.


Yeah, I do agree with you, there is less strength in the overall construction with fewer spokes, and thus more flexibility; and even if it seems I am trying to convince myself this is not a bad idea, I expect (hope) that the extra rigidity of carbon will compensate for fewer spokes. Again, the LB rims can stand a higher spoke tension than alu rims, so silver lining and all, I can give them a couple more turns and expect them to remain within tolerance.

As an opener to a purely good natured discussion, what is your opinion on factory built wheels with 24 spokes: i.e. Mavic XA?

Mavic keep using 24 spokes for some their 27.5" wheels, as the metioned XA, and I wouldn't think many have failed because of the number of spokes or that they are terribly flexy...they are designed for AM, after all.

Do you think a maxtal rim is stronger than a LB reinforced carbon one?

I would think that with quality parts and expert wheelbuilding, you could change one 27.5" 24h rim for another one with 24h and not suffer for it.

Still, I may be talking out of my *ss, but the logic seems pretty straightforward....unless the guys at Mavic use some secret french pixie cheese dust that glues the wheel together.

Which wouldn't surprise me...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Pommers said:


> As an opener to a purely good natured discussion, what is your opinion on factory built wheels


My opinion of factory wheels is a four-letter word. In a few words, I don't trust them. Give me a standard good hub like a DT, Hope, CK, whatever, and let me lace it to a good rim. Don't give me BS spoke counts where you can't true the rim, BS aluminum spokes, BS proprietary drive mechs that require parts that are long gone after a few years. IMO, factory wheels are made more under the mass-production mentality, to sell a bunch of product and get it out there. Lasing 5 or 10 years is pretty low on the priority list, as many people will have moved on to a different bike.

If I were you, I'd be lacing them with Alpine III spokes and good brass nipples, maybe even with nipple washers to help distribute the load a little better. You'll probably be ok, carbon rims are so massively stiffer laterally than aluminum, but taking it down to 24 spokes is only 75% of a standard 32 hole rim.

I simply wouldn't use a 24 hole hub for abusive riding.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Jayem said:


> My opinion of factory wheels is a four-letter word. In a few words, I don't trust them.


 Ok, gotcha 

I'm with you on the second part, not so much on not trusting them. I agree most of them are just marketing faff that won't outlast the life of the bike they'r being used on, and I hate propietary stuff (looking at you, Cannondale & your BB30 crap), but I haven't had any issues with the durability of factory wheels yet (touch wood, cross fingers).

And yes, one of the reasons I am interested on LB rims is the possibility of breaking with propietary BS and not comprimising performance doing it.

Am I walking on a tightrope in terms of strength? kinda...I'd say it's more of a wide plank.

Would I be more confortable with at least 4 more spokes per wheel? certainly.

Will I post back if I total the rim? you bet I won't 

Anyway, I was going back and forth on using washers, but they do help to distribute the load, right? If so, I'd certainly use them, don't mind the "extra weight" (those 20grams are going to kill me, I know)

Thanks for you help, Jayem!


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Buyer beware when dealing this with company: make sure you double, triple, and quadruple check your order to make sure they will send you what you asked; otherwise, they'll send you something that you didn't ask for and doesn't fit your bike and will lay the blame on you. Bottom line they're just another company that is quick to take your money but will come up with multiple excuses when things go wrong.


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

Sorry to hear you had trouble.

I've placed four separate orders over a 3-4 year time period for a total of nine rims and have always received exactly what I ordered with no problems whatsoever.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

amish_matt said:


> Sorry to hear you had trouble.
> 
> I've placed four separate orders over a 3-4 year time period for a total of nine rims and have always received exactly what I ordered with no problems whatsoever.


Same with me, 4 sets and not one problem!! So what happened?


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

matadorCE said:


> Buyer beware when dealing this with company: make sure you double, triple, and quadruple check your order to make sure they will send you what you asked; otherwise, they'll send you something that you didn't ask for and doesn't fit your bike and will lay the blame on you. Bottom line they're just another company that is quick to take your money but will come up with multiple excuses when things go wrong.


Looks like you should have made a copy of your order to compare with what you received. Otherwise, people will believe you got your spokes crossed.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

grizfish said:


> Looks like you should have made a copy of your order to compare with what you received. Otherwise, people will believe you got your spokes crossed.


The copy of my request states what bike I want it for, but the order only has the rim code with a link to their site for the actual rim. When I placed the order they sent me a link that went to a 650b gravel rim which is what I wanted, and then the link went dead short after I had paid and the order processed. 700c wheels show up at my house and they're claiming that was the plan all along and now they've reactivated the link on the order showing 700c wheels. Just a total failure in customer service and underhanded tactics to cover their error.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

dgw7000 said:


> Same with me, 4 sets and not one problem!! So what happened?


I placed a custom order for a 650 gravel wheelset and 700c wheels showed up a month later. I contacted them and they claim that's what I agreed to which is not true. They messed up my order and refuse to do anything about it except tell me that I can try returning it to China for a 20% re-stocking fee plus shipping and they still have the right to refuse a refund if it's an 'unconventional configuration'. Total BS and not really surprised at this point that their main response is to screw the customer.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Sorry, but that sounds fishy. Every time I've ordered from them I've gotten an email with all the details on the rims, hubs, and spokes. If I'd accidentally ordered something wrong I could have chnged it then. Also, I don't see how you'd even order wheels for a specific bike. I've always ordered the wheels I need with no mention of what bike they're going on. If you really said, "I need wheels for X bike," than wow, that's really leaving a lot of room for mistakes, even with a US based wheelbuilder. I guess the cost associated with the discounted price at Light Bicycle, YT, etc is you need to know what you want cuz you don't have a bike shop to help out.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Lelandjt said:


> Sorry, but that sounds fishy. Every time I've ordered from them I've gotten an email with all the details on the rims, hubs, and spokes. If I'd accidentally ordered something wrong I could have chnged it then. Also, I don't see how you'd even order wheels for a specific bike. I've always ordered the wheels I need with no mention of what bike they're going on. If you really said, "I need wheels for X bike," than wow, that's really leaving a lot of room for mistakes, even with a US based wheelbuilder. I guess the cost associated with the discounted price at Light Bicycle, YT, etc is you need to know what you want cuz you don't have a bike shop to help out.


The prominent chi-bon guys did this sort of thing (poor CS, hiding behind the language barrier, blaming mistakes on the customer) a lot more a few years ago than they do now. Still happens on occasion but competition has gotten so fierce I think they realize that it behooves them to make things right or risk the wrath of so many disgruntled keyboard jockeys. Glad to see the change.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Lelandjt said:


> Sorry, but that sounds fishy. Every time I've ordered from them I've gotten an email with all the details on the rims, hubs, and spokes. If I'd accidentally ordered something wrong I could have chnged it then. Also, I don't see how you'd even order wheels for a specific bike. I've always ordered the wheels I need with no mention of what bike they're going on. If you really said, "I need wheels for X bike," than wow, that's really leaving a lot of room for mistakes, even with a US based wheelbuilder. I guess the cost associated with the discounted price at Light Bicycle, YT, etc is you need to know what you want cuz you don't have a bike shop to help out.


I put in an inquiry through they system that I was looking for a 650b gravel aero wheels with a Lefty. They came back and said 'yeah we can do that and we recommend this rim" and included a cross section of a rim with dimensions on it like inner and outer width, depth, etc but no wheel size or rim model number. I had already told them I needed a 650b wheel and told them the make/model of the bike so they could help me with Lefty front hub choices. The rim cross section looked good to me so they put together an invoice detailing the hubs, spokes, etc and a link to the the rim--that rim was the 650b gravel rim they have on their site. A couple of days after I paid, the link to the rim on the email invoice stopped working (still doesn't work). Fast forward a month and the wheels actually show up and they're the wrong size. They claim it was the rim I chose all along, but I think a mistake got made in the order where they put down the wrong rim on the order but sent me a link to the correct rim in the invoice giving me the impression the order was correct all along.

What really pisses me off is that they didn't try to work anything out but instead just pointed to their warranty/return policy that's loaded with fees and there is a chance my return will get rejected anyway if the wheels are of 'unconventional configuration'. No attempt to work with me or try to make things right or even entertain the thought that someone on their end had perhaps made a mistake.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Okay, I see how that happened and yeah, now you're dealing with a return with a Chinese company. Good luck. The mistake happened because it wasn't the normal "I want this rim with these hubs and these spokes". I guess the word of caution is, if your order is out of the ordinary expect problems and over communicate.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

It does sound like a nightmare, you get all excited about new wheels now it’s like what the F do I do!!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Did you pay with a CC or Paypal? You may be able to dispute the charges with the company that processed the payment.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Did you pay with a CC or Paypal? You may be able to dispute the charges with the company that processed the payment.


I paid with PP so I've opened a claim but I'm not too hopeful since it's a slow process. I'm still trying to talk with LB to get a return wit no fees and no out-clauses like the 'unconventional configuration' thing.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Have you bothered to look up the rim model on the site? Not using links.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Yeah it’s really a shame that you had this bad experience because the product is excellent. Only wheel’s I will buy, I get rims only and then build up to my spec.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> Have you bothered to look up the rim model on the site? Not using links.


Like I mentioned in a previous post, initially they didn't tell me what rim model they recommeded. A model number showed up on the invoice with a link to a rim model on their site, and that was to a 650b rim. Turns out the rim model and the link don't match, as the rim model is a 700cc rim but the link given to me to that rim was for a 650b rim.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Hi Guys

Anyone is having issues with the actual delivery? It's been more than two weeks since the items shipped, and LB are saying it's due to a massive holdup in NY imports. USPS doesn't even show the rims as having arrived in the US.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

I never had a problem. They would double or triple check my order with queries. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Never had a problem. These are generally not companies you "ask for a recommendation" from, they are companies you order what you know you want/need. If you don't know exactly what you need, it's best to stay away and shop at your local bike store.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Never had a problem. These are generally not companies you "ask for a recommendation" from, they are companies you order what you know you want/need. If you don't know exactly what you need, it's best to stay away and shop at your local bike store.


 I totally agree with you !! 👍


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Never had a problem. These are generally not companies you "ask for a recommendation" from, they are companies you order what you know you want/need. If you don't know exactly what you need, it's best to stay away and shop at your local bike store.


Ok that's awesome but like I mentioned in a previous post, they showed me something that fit what I was looking for so I did end up ordering exactly what I wanted from my point of view. Mistakes happen and things can go wrong sometimes.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Tine to eat it and move on. You can have them relaced with some 650s and sell the 700 rims to recoupe sone cost. Bummer but $hit happens in internet ordering world from China. I have LB wheels on 4 bikes...love them. I wouldn't bother with a return.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

TiGeo said:


> Tine to eat it and move on. You can have them relaced with some 650s and sell the 700 rims to recoupe sone cost. Bummer but $hit happens in internet ordering world from China. I have LB wheels on 4 bikes...love them. I wouldn't bother with a return.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I'm not enough of a baller to just eat a 1K+ wheelset, so I'm in the process of trying to work something out with them.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

This is my latest set of LB wheels, these are only 30mm external and 24mm internal but work well for a light 29er wheel build. 28 hole, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, alloy nips. Project 321 rear hub with 216 quiet hub and DT Swiss 240 front hub. Set comes in at 1567g. 

Doing a set of Derby now that I de-laced the old spokes and hubs for Boost DT Swiss 240 hubs with Sapim CX ray spokes and brass nips. Sticking with 240 hubs for all my wheels now. Light and trouble free +bearings always nice and smooth!!


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## heatstroke (Jul 1, 2003)

my $0.02
I have been using the LB 38mm rims on my v10 since 2014. I have now done 11 DH trips to Chiang Mai ( between 7-10 days on average per trip) , total mileage of about 2300km of DH. Not groomed trails, pretty rough. 
7 broken spokes
Rims are gouged up from rock scapes, but have survived. Certainly lasting longer than my knees. 

I now have 3 other bikes with LB rims ( HT, N3 and now a N4). I have cracked 1 rim due to a square edge hit on a poorly set up shock (bottomed out)


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

*Final product!*

The wheels are done, and they look awesome. The rims where 510 and 520 grams, so a bit on the heavy side, but that's ok, as I requested the hardcore version, and the wheels came out at 820 grams for the front and 940 for the rear. All in all, pretty decent weight.

They set up tubeless without a problem and they seated with a floor pump, but getting the tyres on and off is a royal PITA.

Tried with some 2.3 Maxxis DHF on the first go, and they looked ridiculously small compared with the rim width, so I went with a 2.35 Forestaker rear and a Vittoria Goma 2.4 front. They give the tyres a nice profile, but once they wear out, I think I'll try something on the 2.5/2.6 range, which will be a good compromise.

I need to try them now, hopefully performance will match looks!


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Pommers said:


> Did they actually say if they are better for carbon? I have never used them in the wheels I've built/rebuilt, and would like to know the benifits they offer vs no washers. Thanks!


Generally speaking with rims w/o eyelets you want to use washers to control the spread of force from nipple to spoke hole. And for carbon, some might not realize that carbon is a very good conductor so it is best to avoid alu contacting the carbon directly. However carbon is only conductive on areas where bare carbon is exposed. Using washers adds another layer on top of the resin/top coat to prevent galvanic corrosion by inserting a ss layer between the alu and carbon.

Aero 07 - Design for Corrosion


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

thesmokingman said:


> Generally speaking with rims w/o eyelets you want to use washers to control the spread of force from nipple to spoke hole. And for carbon, some might not realize that carbon is a very good conductor so it is best to avoid alu contacting the carbon directly. However carbon is only conductive on areas where bare carbon is exposed. Using washers adds another layer on top of the resin/top coat to prevent galvanic corrosion by inserting a ss layer between the alu and carbon.


Been using carbon rims for a while now and never had problems with eyelets cracking. I was sent some "flyweight" type rims from another company for testing, so I'm keeping my eyes on those, but I have 4 other sets of carbon wheels and I've relaced some of them as many as 4 times, 3 times for 2 of the sets. Been riding these for years and lots of DH, enduro, racing of all disciplines on various bikes, etc.

The corrosion issue is definitely real, but it depends on several things. Are the spoke-holes treated with clear-coat? Are the nipples anodized (yes, most any decent one is) and is a compound used to prevent the corrosion? I've gone from having some pretty serious corrosion issues with the first few (carbon) builds to nothing for a few years. I still think that it's probably happening, but at a much slower rate. As soon as I start breaking nipples for this reason, I'll go back and re-nipple the whole wheel. IMO, you are going to at least get a good couple seasons if you are taking reasonable precautions, not letting the bike stay wet, keeping salts away, etc. I liberally apply anti-corrosion compound to the nipple flange and the spoke-threads, to try and discourage the corrosion as much as possible.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Has anyone tried BTLOS.com carbon rims? I like the WM-i29 rim profile with a nice thick bead. Great prices!!


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

dgw7000 said:


> Has anyone tried BTLOS.com carbon rims? I like the WM-i29 rim profile with a nice thick bead. Great prices!!


I have the i25 AM rims on dt 240s hubs that they built up. love love love them! 1440g and incredible quality. they use the highest quality molds and do a ton of testing and qc. talk to them on the chat on the website, Amy or Lily were very helpful..


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## greginaz (Oct 14, 2008)

Just pulled the trigger on the AM928 rims for my Pivot Switchblade. Asymmetric with 28mm inside width. Going to put them on Project 321 hubs. Pretty stoked. I will post a review once I get some time on them.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

greginaz said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the AM928 rims for my Pivot Switchblade. Asymmetric with 28mm inside width. Going to put them on Project 321 hubs. Pretty stoked. I will post a review once I get some time on them.


Suspiciously similar to the Reynolds wheels that Pivot specs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Well, I finally managed to test the RM650BC13 wheelset...pretty damn good, I have to say.
I could only ride two 20 mile loops over the weekend on flowy singletrail, no rock gardens to speak of, no big drops, so I can't speak about resistance to rock strikes or harsh landings, but nevertheless I was impressed on how good the wheels felt.

They're mounted on a Dartmoor hardtail with 140mm up front, which I tend to ride quite mercilessly and they didn't put a foot wrong.

First impression: they feel stiff, with no noticeable flex and tyres won't burp even at 20 psi (that was actually an oversight, not done on purpose, but it was useful to determine how low I can go with tyre pressure). 

On the second loop, with a more logical pressure, they felt even more rigid, in fact, I could even say that harsher than alu rims. I would have had to let some air out, but was actually having too much fun to start fiddling with the tyres. The steering is quite direct and there is no lateral flex I can detect. In fact, they're so stiff that the fork was beginning to feel a bit flexy and unable to cope with the small trail chatter. I will have to use less pressure and open the rebound a bit to make it feel more confortable.

On durability: they are haven't picked any scratches, and there's no lateral or vertical deviation worth mentioning. I only had to retension one spoke on the rear wheel, but will check all of them before the next ride, to be on the safe side. 

All in all, I'm pretty happy on how this first set has turned out. If they don't fail catastrophically in the next month or so, I will probably convert another set of 26inch wheels. Does anyone know if they do some kind of discount for returning customers? I've tried to find some coupon, couldn't find a thing.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

greginaz said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the AM928 rims for my Pivot Switchblade. Asymmetric with 28mm inside width. Going to put them on Project 321 hubs. Pretty stoked. I will post a review once I get some time on them.


Good rims! I built up AM928's on DT240's and just hammer the crap out of them. I smash them over and through rocks on my hardtail and I weigh 250-260. I have put some "normal" scratches on the exterior but I'm happy with the rims. Run 2.4 tires.


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## greginaz (Oct 14, 2008)

Got my new rims and tires assembled. Light Bicycle AM928 rims, project 321 hubs, 32 Laser double butted spokes per wheel, set up 15x110 F and 12x157 super boost R for my Pivot Switchblade. Super happy with the quality. The rims look perfect out of the box. I had Dave’s Wheels get me the hubs and lace them up for me. With valves and tape, they weigh 1670 grams together (no rotors). Tires mounted perfectly, didn’t even need levers and the beads popped into place nicely. 

The Project 321 hubs are really nice. I went with the quite driver, and you can barely hear the pawls just spinning it with your hand. I do wish they were centerlock rotor mounts instead of 6 bolts, but oh well. 

I can’t wait to ride them and see the difference vs my 27.5+ set up. Will post back later.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Yes, I opine with you that 6 bolt is a dumb design. But otherwise those wheels look super sweet! LB's logo is the only budget company's logo I can stand on a rim.


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

Trying to decide between these two builds. I have the asymetric wheels on my 5010 and they almost feel to stiff. The regular rims with 30mm ID are 180.00 cheaper. Going to put them on a 2019 Smuggler. 

AM928
Front Axle:15 / 110mm BOOST
Rear Axle:12 / 148mm BOOST
Freehub Body:Sram XD
Brake System:6-bolt
Front Holes:32H
Rear Holes:32H
Spoke Head:J-bend
Hub Color:Black
Hub BrandT SWISS
Hub Model:350
Ratchet:54T
SpokeT Swiss Competition Race
Nipple:Aluminium Black
Version:AM928
Finish:matte
Weave:UD
Decal:stealth
Valve Stem:Add Valve Stem
Tubeless Tape:Add Tubeless Tape
1017.00
1
Pair
1017.00


WM29C07
Front Axle:15 / 110mm BOOST
Rear Axle:12 / 148mm BOOST
Freehub Body:Sram XD
Brake System:6-bolt
Front Holes:32H
Rear Holes:32H
Spoke Head:J-bend
Hub Color:Black
Hub BrandT SWISS
Hub Model:350
Ratchet:54T
SpokeT Swiss Competition Race
Nipple:Aluminium Black
Version:All Mountain
Finish:matte
Weave:UD
Decal:stealth
Valve Stem:Add Valve Stem
Tubeless Tape:Add Tubeless Tape
839.00
1
Pair
839.00


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## greginaz (Oct 14, 2008)

Got a few rides in on the new wheels. See 2 posts up for details. I lost 1.5 lbs in wheel and tire weight! But to be honest, I didn't really notice much of a difference. My old set up was DT Swiss 350 hubs, their Alum XM551 rims in 40mm internal width, and I was running High Roller II 27.5x2.8 plus tires. My average mph and overall times didn't really change, but my max speed went up by a mph or so. I didn't re-gear, so doing the steep climbs took more energy. According to gear calculator, I should go down 2 teeth to a 30 chain ring to keep same ratios.

It did feel like a slight bit less effort on flats, but I probably wouldn't have noticed if I wasn't really paying attention. The lateral flex on the rear seems like it is a little more in the fast tight corners vs my 27.5+ set up, which I guess is to be expected going bigger diameter and narrower rim. But it's hardly noticeable.

On a few of the really techy rock climbs, I didn't clear them like I normally do, but I think it will just take a little getting used to, as the bike is about a half inch taller now. I will run this set up for the next month or so, then try the 27.5+ set up again and see what happens before deciding on which set up to sell.

I have zero complaints with the rims. They aren't harsh feeling, they look great, and track really well. I'm running 17 and 19 psi and didn't have any rim strikes yet, so I might be able to go down another half or one lb on the pressure.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

*Lacing Rims With Angled Nipple Holes*

Hi I just bought a pair of your rims (RM26C05) and I'm about to lace them up. I'm wondering about the arrow stickers. Is this sticker saying the arrow should be pointed toward the disc side if it's used for the front, and the arrow should be pointed toward the drive side if it's used on the rear?







And... what does this arrow on the rim bed mean?







Also, I previously bought a pair of your rims (RM26C03) about 3 years ago. I do not recall any stickers with arrows on them. Does it matter which side of the rim should face front disc/rear drive with those? Not sure if they holes were drilled at an angle or not.

By the way, my RM26C03 rims have been ridden on rocks, roots, cross country, down hill parks, and everywhere else. They've taken a lot of hard riding and they are holding up very well.


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

Got my lightbicycle.com RM29C19's yesterday. Delivery was less than 1 week ARO. I finished putting the tubeless maxxis ikon on the front but ran out of time on the back. I'm pretty excited to try them out, but my new bike isn't finished yet and my existing hardtail has that dang RS-1 shock. Front was 738g, rear was 860g with industry9 hubs, alloy XD driver, presta stem and rim tape.


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## greginaz (Oct 14, 2008)

greginaz said:


> Got a few rides in on the new wheels. See 2 posts up for details. I lost 1.5 lbs in wheel and tire weight! But to be honest, I didn't really notice much of a difference. My old set up was DT Swiss 350 hubs, their Alum XM551 rims in 40mm internal width, and I was running High Roller II 27.5x2.8 plus tires. My average mph and overall times didn't really change, but my max speed went up by a mph or so.
> View attachment 1216092


Just to update, I discovered my brakes were dragging on my first few rides, which definitely slowed me down, and didn't feel like a gained anything. But after fixing them, it was a pretty big change. They definitely get up to speed quicker and roll faster which is more like what I was expecting. I am getting used to the 29" size now and have been beating my old times, so I'm pretty happy with them. I did drop my bars down about 15mm to get some more weight on the front because it was a little drifty. But I am rumming the tall headset cup and 160mm Fork for more travel and ground clearance over SoMo trails.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

Looking for feedback on riding the XC925 standard version frt/rear at 360g each wheel. Do you think I’m pushing the limits at my 195 pound riding weight for 360g, 32h wheels?
I’m riding a 120/100 travel bike used for wide open XC trails in SoCal with single track and small sections of chunk mixed in about 10% of the time at most. Will these wheels take a beating with the typical breaking bumps, and on the high speed bumpy fire roads? Just looking for real world experience with someone who uses these wheels.

I’m currently running 430g wheels that came off my old build, which are bomb proof, but I wouldn’t mind losing around 200g for the long grinding climbs.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Anybody using the new Recon Pro rims from LB? I’m building a set of AM930’s but curious if anyone has any ride time in on them?


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

I order my new „black tec" Recon pro serie AM735 LB dt240 54ratchet Wheels last week..

https://www.lightbicycle.com/AM735-asymmetric-rim-profile-carbon-650b-carbon-rims-mtb.html


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## c_trail_biker (Aug 12, 2010)

I am having a great wheel builder at a LBS build me a set of 29C14 (rear hd) on i9 hubs. At just over 200lbs gear up I feel these should hold up well. In fact they may be a little on the stiff side. If you have access to an experienced wheel builder, I highly recommend it. Sure I could have saved $100 + tax or more going direct from China, but my wheels will receive free tuning for life and worst case if I wreck one is the crash replacement cost of the rim as the shop will rebuild for little or no cost and the shop will handle the communication with the manufacturer.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I was wondering what a good 27.5+ Carbon wheelset should weigh? General purpose not too crazy rider.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

Mine 1700gr


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## c_trail_biker (Aug 12, 2010)

c_trail_biker said:


> I am having a great wheel builder at a LBS build me a set of 29C14 (rear hd) on i9 hubs. At just over 200lbs gear up I feel these should hold up well. In fact they may be a little on the stiff side. If you have access to an experienced wheel builder, I highly recommend it. Sure I could have saved $100 + tax or more going direct from China, but my wheels will receive free tuning for life and worst case if I wreck one is the crash replacement cost of the rim as the shop will rebuild for little or no cost and the shop will handle the communication with the manufacturer.


Attached are a couple of pics of the new 29C14 wheels.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

Black tec LB wheelset direct from factory liftime warranty
AM735 35mm inner/41mm outer dia. 27.5


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## tungsten (Apr 7, 2006)

8664 said:


> Black tec LB wheelset direct from factory liftime warenty
> 35mm/41mm 27.5


Those 2.6 or 2.8? Can't quite tell.....


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

front 2.6 but not thiner, rear 2.8


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

today the front rim is cracked after two rides...Black tec LB is not strong as the old EN layer rim :madman::cryin::cryin::cryin::cryin::crying:

#lightbicycle #lbwheels #carbonwheels


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

8664 said:


> View attachment 1231176
> today the front rim is cracked after two rides...Black tec LB is not strong as the old EN layer rim :madman::cryin::cryin::cryin::cryin::crying:
> 
> #lightbicycle #lbwheels #carbonwheels


That's a crazy spot for a break. Looks like it just spontaneously broke, or broke from an indirect impact of course. What happened?


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

farfromovin said:


> That's a crazy spot for a break. Looks like it just spontaneously broke, or broke from an indirect impact of course. What happened?


 from a to smal bike hanger in the train. but it is like paper so fine so fine in this area.. but i my eyes not normal..


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Tested my AM930's with CK hubs today, felt great, not a ping or pop to be heard! Sorry, don't really have a closeup of the rim but you can see them in this shot from today's ride:








That's with a 2.4WT Rekon and a 2.35 Ikon out back. Even on a 30mm rim the 2.35 Ikon still has a nice rounded profile, love that tire!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

farfromovin said:


> That's a crazy spot for a break. Looks like it just spontaneously broke, or broke from an indirect impact of course. What happened?


This was definitely not spontaneous, and I believe we still warrantied this case in spite of this. Our new Recon Pro rims come out of the mold as a finished product and the fibers are undisturbed which helps make for a more scratch resistent finish.

Carbon rims are inherently thiner in the sidewalls, so if you hit them with a rock hard enough or jam them into something using brute force, then you can compromise them.

Our Recon MTB rims are are less expensive models and most of them are available in 2 different layup types. The ones that start with EN (Enduro) or have the "HD" version available use an extra wrap of 3k on the interior which thickens up the sidewalls. This makes them withstand hard rock strikes and handle g-out forces a bit better. The ones that start with AM or XC do not have that style of layup and are more traditional (which is what works best for the majority of riders.

The Recon line (and other non-Pro line products) now have a 3 year warranty.

Our Recon Pro MTB rims have a host of new technology and are more expensive. The naming convention is similar. XC and AM rims do not have the thickened sidewalls (and are rarely required for such riding), whereas the EN732 and EN932 for example do have the reinforced layup. The Pro rims have a 5 year warranty with the option of extending to lifetime coverage if you feel you need that.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

Just got my EIE Carbon wheels. Very nicely done and were easy to work with. Came in on my scales at 1297g. Super light. Here are some pics;


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## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

^very nice. Can you post specs and price?


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

matt.s67 said:


> ^very nice. Can you post specs and price?


The rims are EIE A29C25D22S with DT Swiss 240 hubs (28h), CX Ray Spokes, Al nipples. Probably one of the easiest ways to drop a pound off my bike. The stock wheels came in at 1750g on my Spark RC WC.

I'm in the process of mounting tires and will report back on the ride quality. I can't imagine anything out of the ordinary though. Never rode CF wheels before but I'm sure they will work as expected.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

stom_m3 said:


> The rims are EIE A29C25D22S with DT Swiss 240 hubs (28h), CX Ray Spokes, Al nipples. Probably one of the easiest ways to drop a pound off my bike. The stock wheels came in at 1750g on my Spark RC WC.
> 
> I'm in the process of mounting tires and will report back on the ride quality. I can't imagine anything out of the ordinary though. Never rode CF wheels before but I'm sure they will work as expected.


That is really light, nice!!! I just had a serious wreck....going down a very fast long rocky descent with 2 guys in front of me when a big 2 inch thick stick bounced up right through my Light Bicycles RM29c19, 28 hole, Sapim CX Ray spokes with DT Swiss 240 hubs front wheel. It was like a dream seeing the stick go through the wheel and me launching like superman over the handlebars. They said I did a nice tuck and roll at the very last second and landed on rocks. ER visit a few broken ribs and messed up lower back and right shoulder. I was really luckey!!! This is the wheel and I glad I had a carbon LB hoop!!


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## Swervemonk (Sep 11, 2007)

*Price please.*



matt.s67 said:


> ^very nice. Can you post specs and price?


Great specs... and weight. Can you tell us approx price?

And a ride report please. What tires too?


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## ASiameseCat (Aug 21, 2011)

I just received my Light Bicycle front wheel, it came in at 637g. 28H Flyweight wheel, Sapim CX rays, and DT Swiss 350 hub. I chose to go with brass nipples.


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## tantrum007 (May 4, 2017)

Took my LB AM928 wheels off a huck to flat I found near my house about 5 feet tall. I was scared but I rode away safely! LB seems legit so far.


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## Glenngineer (Mar 4, 2014)

Anyone on the 50mm 29+ rim? Getting ready to pull the trigger on a pair with Onyx hubs, just waiting on more info on the new hubs...


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

What kind of lead times have people seen with LB orders? Eyeing a pair for a new build.


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## andymott (Aug 5, 2017)

Mine took about 3 weeks to arrive, a fair part of that being in UK Customs. This was a custom build, not something they might have on the shelf. The build took about a week from memory.


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## Mettis (Jan 14, 2018)

My long wait is over! Today I recieved my new Light Bicycle carbon fatbike wheelset. FAT680 rims (85mm), i9 Hydra hubs, sapim d-light spokes and brass nipples. Overall quality seems to be top notch!:thumbsup:

Wheelset weights roughly: front 920g and rear 1100g.

They set up tubeless so easy with a floorpump and they dont leak air even without a sealant.

I will let you know how they ride

I tried to add some pics but got error when I tryed to add them. I will try again later.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

With the price of the LB pro wheel sets being only about $150 max cheaper than NOX or We are One wheels why go with LB? They are no longer a bargain price Like EIE, BTLOS, etc?


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Guess that depends on where you are and whether you’re searching for a set of wheels or just a pair of rims.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


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## ScottW (Jan 16, 2004)

Chicane32 said:


> With the price of the LB pro wheel sets being only about $150 max cheaper than NOX or We are One wheels why go with LB? They are no longer a bargain price Like EIE, BTLOS, etc?


I went with LB AM930 wheels over the We are One union wheels for a couple reasons. The LB wheels were a couple hundred dollars cheaper, I've had a few sets of LB wheels with zero issues and We are One wheels have a 3-6 week lead time. Both wheels use the I9 Hydra hubs but the LB wheels allow the option of Sapim D light spokes which saves some weight plus the AM930 rims are lighter than the Union rims.

My wheelset taped with valve stems came in at 1710 grams.


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## Hops143 (Apr 27, 2018)

I bought a set of the 50mm x 29 for Christmas and am just getting around to mounting them (fatty summer wheels) and I am bummed at how terrible the 29+ tire selection is compared to 27.5+.


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

Now starting the long wait to receive my rims from BTLOS, Hadley and Sram hubs (didn't want to spend much on the front), and DR Swiss spokes from Amazon. Since I changed all that, decided to go for a 203 front rotor instead of the existing 180. When this money spending will end???!!!

P.S.: Now shopping for decently priced tires.


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## Mark16q (Apr 16, 2006)

Just received 925 wheel set with 240 hubs, Sapim X-rays, 29”. Ordered 5/14 from the international site and arrived today. The delivery guy thought the box was empty, very light! Without tape or valves 770g rear 620g front. Tape and valves are about 38g. Now my orbea oiz tr just needs to show up, delivery scheduled for 6/17. can’t wait to try these out.


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## biffhamilton (Jun 15, 2009)

Mark16q said:


> Just received 925 wheel set with 240 hubs, Sapim X-rays, 29". Ordered 5/14 from the international site and arrived today. The delivery guy thought the box was empty, very light! Without tape or valves 770g rear 620g front. Tape and valves are about 38g. Now my orbea oiz tr just needs to show up, delivery scheduled for 6/17. can't wait to try these out.


I built up the same rims for my Oiz-TR

Did you go with the "flyweight" front rim?


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## Mark16q (Apr 16, 2006)

Just checked order and yes, flyweight. What did yours weigh in at?


biffhamilton said:


> I built up the same rims for my Oiz-TR
> 
> Did you go with the "flyweight" front rim?


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## biffhamilton (Jun 15, 2009)

Mark16q said:


> Just checked order and yes, flyweight. What did yours weigh in at?


The wheel set? I didn't weight them.....

I'm a hair over 24 lbs. in the pick

A couple of weeks ago I did a race that didn't require the dropper post and I put lighter tires on.... brought it down to 23.5 lbs.


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## maxnyc199 (Nov 1, 2011)

Ordered a set of Recon pro 30 with I9 hydra hubs boost front and back. Arrived in one week, everything was in stock. Wheelset came in at 1690 grams with tape and vales.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

Just built a wheelset with these 650b x 40mm light bicycle AM733 rims

These wheels are excellent. Came up to tension perfectly. The offset helps even out the spoke length. Very consistent and barely any truing necessary.

Mounted them up tubeless, the shape of the rim center makes it easy to mount up tires without spoons, yet you can still seat the tire with only a floor pump. The beadlocks do a very good job holding the tire on even when deflated.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

The lifetime warranty doesnt include rock strikes. So its worthless essentially.

I have cracked one of the Lb older rims. Not looking for warranty coverage. I am just looking at all the options.

So recon pro 260ish$ warranty doesnt cover crash or rock strikes. 450 grams.

We are one 400-450 no questions asked warranty anything that happens on the trail is covered. 425 grams

Santa cruz reserve $600 no questions asked warranty crashes and rock strikes covered. 475-500 grams.

Zipp 3zero moto $700 lifetime warranty including crash and rock strikes. Little heavier 545 grams but the coolest looking and has built in compliance.

Enve stupid expensive have to remove tire to adjust spokes no way.

Are there any others I should consider?

Winner right now seems to be WAO which is the lightest and cheapest rim with a legitimate lifetime you break it we give you a new one warranty.


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> The lifetime warranty doesnt include rock strikes. So its worthless essentially.
> 
> I have cracked one of the Lb older rims. Not looking for warranty coverage. I am just looking at all the options.
> 
> ...


FWIW Light Bicycle gives a 5 year/25% off crash replacement for their Pro series rims


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm still waiting for LB or similar company to reduce prices in response to coronavirus. This has got to be destroying their ability to sell anything.


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> I'm still waiting for LB or similar company to reduce prices in response to coronavirus. This has got to be destroying their ability to sell anything.


You got it backwards.
Supply and demand.

Less supply, more demand, higher prices.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mudguy said:


> You got it backwards.
> Supply and demand.
> 
> Less supply, more demand, higher prices.


I'm fairly certain they are sitting on a pretty large supply, and little to no demand.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> I'm fairly certain they are sitting on a pretty large supply, and little to no demand.


They sell tons of product. This virus is a temporary thing and looking to cash in on their misfortune is shitty.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> The lifetime warranty doesnt include rock strikes. So its worthless essentially.
> 
> I have cracked one of the Lb older rims. Not looking for warranty coverage. I am just looking at all the options.
> 
> ...


I'm in the same boat and 'been shopping around. There are several others that are pretty notable like Nobl and Nox; Nobl was popular around here locally for a couple years, I know a dude that ran Nox for a few years with no issues too.

You're right though, LB has an $100-add-on "lifetime" warranty but if it doesn't include the rock-smash, its not even worth considering in my opinion. I was close to going with LB until I noticed that asterisk of the warranty.

I've talked to the guys at WE1 and even the owner - super nice guy; they have really risen strong and are becoming a top brand. Now it will be interesting to see if they stay in this position; they're growing.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> The lifetime warranty doesnt include rock strikes. So its worthless essentially.


It's a warranty, not a lifetime rim pension.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

TylerVernon said:


> It's a warranty, not a lifetime rim pension.


 Huh? Sorry to insult your brand of rims.

We are one and others offer a lifetime "rim pension" if you choose the lifetime option for LB its around $350 for a $100 more i get a warranty that actually protects against things that happen when you ride a trail.


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Huh? Sorry to insult your brand of rims.
> 
> We are one and others offer a lifetime "rim pension" if you choose the lifetime option for LB its around $350 for a $100 more i get a warranty that actually protects against things that happen when you ride a trail.


Kevin, you picked the cheapest rim, and then said the warranty is "worthless", completely ignoring the separate "crash replacement" they offer.

I don't run low enough pressure to crack rims, so saving $200-300 on a set of wheels is a perfectly reasonable tradeoff for me, and I don't consider the warranty to be "worthless" - if the wheel delaminates then it's certainly worth something.

I'm also more concerned with function of the wheel/not getting stranded than with the warranty - have you ever carried a bike for a few miles when it won't roll? You won't care about $300 when you have to leave your $4K bike in the woods.

Your overall tone is why people are arguing with you, you could have said "the LB warranty is not suitable for my purposes", but instead you chose a negative/hostile way of phrasing it that implies the product is no good.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

I went with LB on the assumption that for the cost of most others, and one warranty replacement (because I just pin it through rock gardens despite being a ~260lb vehicle with pack installed), I'd still be money ahead. I use them like I still need to justify replacing the rear wheel on both bikes... but they haven't given up.

For my part I'd probably choose WeAreOne wheels as a complete build, but getting LB complete sets on DT350's and having my LBS work on the tension to where it's spot on (after a couple rides) has been a really solid value. The 31.6/38mm Enduro wheels are pretty solid, even at my weight and lack of talent.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Its cool the actual tech is good the rims are nice just want more security.

I have CK hubs so I just want rims. I have my lbs build them thats $65 plus 32 spokes. Then add in shipping for new rim I'm out $125 for a new wheel to be built on warranty rim.

If I buy 1 Lb rim at $250 and crack it total cost of replacement is $375 or $625. 

So if I crack only 1 rim ever I'm still up money after 1 replacement.

I'm 145lbs and a pretty smooth rider but I was kom hunting and made 1 wrong choice and that's all it takes.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Huh? Sorry to insult your brand of rims.
> 
> We are one and others offer a lifetime "rim pension" if you choose the lifetime option for LB its around $350 for a $100 more i get a warranty that actually protects against things that happen when you ride a trail.


You actually insulted the English language. None of this has to do with a warranty. What you are discussing is an insurance policy.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

TylerVernon said:


> You actually insulted the English language. None of this has to do with a warranty. What you are discussing is an insurance policy.


 https://www.weareonecomposites.com/page/warranty


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> I'm fairly certain they are sitting on a pretty large supply, and little to no demand.


People sitting at home with nothing to do but ride bikes


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I asked one of the other chiner carbon wheel companies to make me a deal on a set of rims, and they did. The bottleneck is actually the shipping even though both supply and demand are healthy on both sides.


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## Glenngineer (Mar 4, 2014)

Well, I think I'm done with LB.

The 29+ on Hydra set I ordered last April had been really fantastic, dead true until yesterday afternoon, when on a regular trail ride the bead failed fairly dramatically. I was able to stick a tube in and limp home... All the way home, because I pedalled to the trail head.

Talked to LB. Not a warranty...crash replacement offer 'with discount' is exactly the price listed on LBs site. I told them I was disappointed...got 5% off. So I have to buy a new rim after a little over a year, and get my wheel rebuilt. The OEM Alex junk held up better.

The contrast with I9 is pretty remarkable. LB is officially in the too cheap to be worth it camp for me... Easy to break, useless warranty.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Useless warranty has been pretty well known right?

I almost view them as a trial to see if you like carbon rims, they aren't much more than aluminum, if you like them ride them until the break and then buy one with real crash replacement.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I have 2 sets of LB for about 6 years now, soon to be 3, never any issues. You are saying your tire-bead failed? Or the rim? It just blew out, or was it a rim-strike? Got pictures? I have broken a Nextie, due to not running enough pressure, my fault.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

How are LB wheels for bikepacking & XC? This will be for a 27.5+ bike.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Glenn, The 29+ rims are pretty thin through the bead shelf. After looking at the specs, I'm not surprised that it blew out/broke.


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