# Rise EP8-RS motor experience, potential enhancements to differentiate from Fuel EXe's silent TQ50



## stantaur (Jun 23, 2013)

Hi - for *Orbea Rise users (and "friends" of users) with Shimano EP8-RS *motor & only seeking to enhance torque from 60 Nm to perhaps 75 - 80 Nm, is ST Unlocker considered safe and reversible for the: 
--Carbon (360 WHr battery) Orbea Rise M-series, and/or 
--Alloy (540 WHr) Orbea Rise H-series

Curious to learn what your experience has been with the enhancement. Is it a *noticeable* improvement in perceived torque going from stock Profile 2's 60 Nm max in Boost (Profile 1's only 47 Nm) to higher Nm settings? 

Any *overheating, throttling, noise issues* and (after flashing back to stock settings) have any visits to the repair shop resulted in any issues with warranty coverage or blacklisting that motor/battery for future coverage? 

Pls feel free to DM me your feedback if posting any feedback from your friends who may have used ST Unlocker or other software that taps the true potential of that EP8-RS.

I'm *only interested in increasing the torque/assist levels* in Profiles 1 and 2 for better XC trail riding. That's it. If ~80 Nm works for the 540 WHr Alloys but the 360 WHr Carbons do best no higher than 70 Nm, that's helpful info to know. Or if 70 works better on the 540 WHr and 80 on the 360 WHr due to different cells used in those packs, whatever. 

Reason for 75-80 Nm max is to get safety margin (vs EP8's 85 Nm) for loads and thermals, as Rise 360 WHr and 540 WHr battery performance doesn't seem to be well-documented for use over 60 Nm. And some have mentioned elsewhere that the battery/wiring architecture causes noise or damage when going full 85 Nm.

To be even clearer, I'm *NOT looking to "de-restrict," change max speed, wheel diameter, etc. *Just want more acceleration/torque for steeper hills because I enjoy pseudo rock-crawling that 75-ish Nm on a mid-40 lb bike could provide (while still being able to lift said bike over a raised tailgate for transit - couldn't do that with friend's 51 lb Rail & had to drop the tailgate / do the dance). I have no interest exceeding 20 MPH on US trails - my avg speed climbing is 2-3 MPH on MTB and maybe 8 MPH avg on a friend's Rail 9.8. 

Apologies I have not found definitive answers to these questions in this thread or other resources in this forum. Thanks for helping us distill the options for those considering EP8-RS motor in the Rise.

With the Fuel EXe's 50 Nm and competitive design/component tier-bundles that are launching now, I'd love to see Orbea & Shimano follow Tesla's approach of offering a "Torque Boost" upgrade for a small fee ($125) that would bump torque to 80 Nm for friends who want their Rise to be able to rock-crawl among the full-fats while avoiding warranty issues & enjoying these nimble mid-40 lb wonder-bikes. Tesla sold "Acceleration Boost" that dropped 0-60 times from 4.9 to 4.3 sec for the base spec Model Y a few yrs ago - appreciable difference that narrowed the gap from the Performance spec (and didn't require getting those heavy & fragile skinny sidewall wheel/tire setup of the Performance spec).


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

the ep8rs is the same hardware as an ep8 so from a hardware/capability/safety/thermal capacity viewpoint, there are no issues with the ep8 rs running at the same specs as an ep8. The problem you will likely encounter, is the battery. Orbea is using a battery sourced from a supplier other then shimano, in this case, darfon. It is unclear what the amperage discharge specs are on the version of the darfon batteries that orbea is using for the M series rise. Santacruz also uses a 540wh darfon battery in their heckler which uses a full power ep8. Orbea's batteries in these bikes are provided with orbea branding on them, with the H series actually having "Orbea" molded into the case for the battery. This says to me, that they are specifying the batteries specific to their usage of the bikes, and may well be specifying the cells within the battery specifically to the max current draw that they are anticipating with the reduced output of the ep8rs. 

All of that being said... the TLDR version is that the biggest risk and limitation is likely to be the battery. Second to that, the firmware in the ep8rs does seem to be setup to continue to provide power past the normal cadence of what a standard ep8 would. There is generally only one way to achieve this, which is using a process for 3 phase motors that is called "near field weakening". I would be concerned that with the firmware setup that orbea is using, a combination of the ep8rs being willing to apply power at a higher cadence, when combined with the full power being unlocked, could create a current draw that is out of spec for the battery.

There are reports of people trying this, some with supposed success. Others have reported that the motor makes some strange noises and vibrates. Overall, as some one who owns a rise, it's simply not worth it. If you want full power, get a full power ebike. I don't think it's necessary at all as the ep8rs on boost provides plenty of max power... in my opinion a bit too much to use most of the time. I prefer to have the bike in trail, with a more natural feel and power that isn't quite so frantic.


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## stantaur (Jun 23, 2013)

This is exactly the kind of insight I'm seeking - thank you. Helps me to learn the difference between carbon M-Series 360 battery vs. alloy H-Series 540 battery (Darfon) and whether either one could reliably support usage above 60 Nm if I eventually want to run 70 Nm. 

The Garmin integration is tipping me toward the Rise, and if either carbon or alloy could support the >60 Nm, that might be enough to tip me toward a Rise instead of the Fuel EXe.


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## Cell4soul (6 mo ago)

stantaur said:


> This is exactly the kind of insight I'm seeking - thank you. Helps me to learn the difference between carbon M-Series 360 battery vs. alloy H-Series 540 battery (Darfon) and whether either one could reliably support usage above 60 Nm if I eventually want to run 70 Nm.
> 
> The Garmin integration is tipping me toward the Rise, and if either carbon or alloy could support the >60 Nm, that might be enough to tip me toward a Rise instead of the Fuel EXe.


my EXe works perfectly with my Garmin 830. I get battery life remaining, assistance level, what gear my AXS shifter is in and AXS battery life remaining, all on the same screen. It is really nice.


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

Cell4soul said:


> my EXe works perfectly with my Garmin 830. I get battery life remaining, assistance level, what gear my AXS shifter is in and AXS battery life remaining, all on the same screen. It is really nice.


I get all this on my Rise.


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## stantaur (Jun 23, 2013)

Cell4soul said:


> my EXe works perfectly with my Garmin 830. I get battery life remaining, assistance level, what gear my AXS shifter is in and AXS battery life remaining, all on the same screen. It is really nice.


Can you share pics of what this looks like on the 830's display and what the Garmin Connect looks like please? From what I understand, the Rise provides several categories like image below's e-Bike:
Travel Range
Battery 
Battery Level
Assist Mode
Assist Level
Cadence

Thanks again for your help with these questions. I'm really torn between the EXe 9.7 and Rise M10 being offered to me at same price.
Rented a M10 this week and was impressed with the power, nimbleness, and plush ride from that Fox Float Factory package.
Borrowed the LBS's EXe the day before but promised not to ride it off-pavement. Power seemed lower than M10, even after tweaking the settings in Trek Central. Very interested to learn how you paired Trek Central to the Garmin 830, as the M10 metrics plus the extra 10 Nm are pushing me toward the M10.


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## stantaur (Jun 23, 2013)

Also interested in what other Garmin devices Trek Central might support - I see the 1030 in their signup process as being supported, but would be curious about watches like the Forerunner series are supported.


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## Cell4soul (6 mo ago)

stantaur said:


> Can you share pics of what this looks like on the 830's display and what the Garmin Connect looks like please? From what I understand, the Rise provides several categories like image below's e-Bike:
> Travel Range
> Battery
> Battery Level
> ...


I couldn’t find cadence, but that isn’t to say it may not be available. Here are my accurate data screens:


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