# Old lugged steel Trek frames



## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

A few weeks ago, I posted my query in the Trek forum, but suffered a brain fart and didn't think to post my query here in the Vintage/Retro forum.

A buddy of mine has a Trek 930 that I instantly fell in love with. It's got the classy looking lugged joints, a crackled blue finish, it looks great. Ordinarily I'd have dropped some cash for it, but this bike was way too big for me, so I decided that I'd start looking for one of my own. Through reading up a bit and looking at stuff on ebay, I've come to realize that what I want is a Trek 900-series lugged steel frame from the early '90s. The reason I say 'series' and not any specific model is because I'd like to have a bit of a fun and build it up with some parts that are more up-to-date. V-brakes instead of cantilevers, my inverted cruiser bars, some tasty new wheels, etc. I'd also like to strip down the whole frame get it powdercoated in a tasty British Racing Green sorta color.

One quick question I have pertains to the headtube and the fork. Pretty sure I'm going to want a rigid fork. Do all the Trek 900-series bikes have a 1" headtube, or were there later ones with 1-1/8" headtubes? If it's the former, then what sort of fork am I looking at here? Threaded, unthreaded? I've never messed with threaded forks or headsets before, that's why I'm asking (I only started seriously riding bikes about 9 months ago).

Also, should I score one of these frames, the plan is to build it up as a singlespeed. Where any of these frames ever built with horizontal dropouts or where they are vertical?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Even better if you lot have any leads to a decent frame in a small size (I've been scouring ebay).

Cheers!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

SpinWheelz said:


> A few weeks ago, I posted my query in the Trek forum, but suffered a brain fart and didn't think to post my query here in the Vintage/Retro forum.
> 
> A buddy of mine has a Trek 930 that I instantly fell in love with. It's got the classy looking lugged joints, a crackled blue finish, it looks great. Ordinarily I'd have dropped some cash for it, but this bike was way too big for me, so I decided that I'd start looking for one of my own. Through reading up a bit and looking at stuff on ebay, I've come to realize that what I want is a Trek 900-series lugged steel frame from the early '90s. The reason I say 'series' and not any specific model is because I'd like to have a bit of a fun and build it up with some parts that are more up-to-date. V-brakes instead of cantilevers, my inverted cruiser bars, some tasty new wheels, etc. I'd also like to strip down the whole frame get it powdercoated in a tasty British Racing Green sorta color.
> 
> ...


Honestly...you should not have a problem finding this frame...and for cheap!
Looks aside, what you may have liked about it was it's handling characteristics?
IMHO, steel frames have the best overall feel. If you're going SS, a steel frame (Trek 930 or otherwise) is a good starting point.

'Period correctness' not being an issue for you, sky's the limit on your build.

A 1" head tube will make it a bit more difficult for you to find a suspension fork that will be able to handle trail duties. 1 1/8" will give you many more options. Suspension or rigid is really up to you...but I personally enjoy full rigid for out of saddle hammering. I would think the Trek you seek would be a 1 1/8" bike, and many came with the matching rigid fork.
The threaded/threadless thing should not be an issue. Parts (both headsets and forks) are out there.

How much are you looking to spend? You might get more for your $$ if you buy an SS that's already built up...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

*Cheap, cheap*

Easy find.

http://www.craigslist.org/eby/bik/55186214.html


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Better yet...given where you live:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/bik/55172129.html


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

Cheers, Rumpfy. I have noticed that these bikes are fairly common, based on my scouring efforts on ebay. Have seen quite frames go for well under $100. I'm 5'4" so I'll be looking for a small sized frame. I have every intention of using a rigid fork with the build, so if I can find a frame that comes with the stock fork, all the better. Otherwise, I'm sure I'll have alternatives available to me.

Here's a silly question - are all 1" forks/headsets threaded or are there unthreaded versions available as well? Also, you're saying that there were 900-series bikes that came with 1-1/8th headtubes?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

SpinWheelz said:


> Cheers, Rumpfy. I have noticed that these bikes are fairly common, based on my scouring efforts on ebay. Have seen quite frames go for well under $100. I'm 5'4" so I'll be looking for a small sized frame. I have every intention of using a rigid fork with the build, so if I can find a frame that comes with the stock fork, all the better. Otherwise, I'm sure I'll have alternatives available to me.
> 
> Here's a silly question - are all 1" forks/headsets threaded or are there unthreaded versions available as well? Also, you're saying that there were 900-series bikes that came with 1-1/8th headtubes?


There are 1" threadless (suspension) forks out there, but usually run a mint! A threadless 1" rigid fork would be something custom. You're better off finding a NOS Ritchey fork if you end up needing a 1" rigid fork for a non suspension geom. frame. You'll have to go the threaded route.

If you find a bike with frame/fork, there's a pretty good chance it'll be threaded.
I'm not a Trek buff...but all newer Treks (say post 1993?) will be 1 1/8". I'm sure someone else here will know the finder details of that...


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

check out the vintage trek site for the old specs.
http://www.vintage-trek.com/TrekBrochures.htm

We've found old one inch threadless rigid steel forks before, and you can still get tange ones from QBP. Non suspension corrected of course.

At our last local police bike auction there was a disproportionate number of old rigid steel treks, don't know why they were so popular with thiefs and abandoneers.


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

I'm pretty sure that the lugged ones had a 1" headtube. The latter welded ones might have been 1 1/8. Don't quote me on any of that though. Those lugged ones are sweet though. Nice tubeset for a relatively inexpensive bike. A buddy of mine used to have one that I rode a few times. Had Mountain LX compontents. For whatever reason the rigid fork had no lawyer tabs and one day he didn't tighten the front quickrelease. Needlesss to say he had a nasty accident, ruined the fork and part of his face.


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

1" headtube = threaded forks. Got it. I'm sure there's hardly a shortage of them since I see them quite regularly on ebay. In fact, not too long ago, I saw a whole box of 'em - easily a dozen fork there - go for something like ten bucks or so. Madness.

And I'm also getting the fact that if I want the lugged steel frames, I'm looking at the 1" headtube models, not the more contemporary 1-1/8th" ones, which are probably tig-welded.

Well, the search begins proper now. If any of you guys have any leads on a small frame and/or bike, feel free to holler it in this thread.

Thanks a million!


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

SpinWheelz said:


> 1" headtube = threaded forks.


Not necessarily... 1" forks are often threaded, but can be threadless. Same with 1 1/8" forks, they used to come either way.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Not necessarily... 1" forks are often threaded, but can be threadless. Same with 1 1/8" forks, they used to come either way.


Or try to find a 1" threaded fork that is long enough to gut the threaded section off and turn it into a threadless fork. You can also run a 1 1/8" stem with a shim.


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

Pardon my further silly questions here, but I'm not too sure how threaded steerer tubes/headsets work. I mean, I've installed a few threadless 1-1/8th forks now that I know what I'm doing with those. Slip the crown race on the steerer tube, slip it in the headtube, clamp on the stem, done. When threaded steerer tubes and headsets? I have no idea. What function does the threading hold? How will I know if I need to use one of these quill stems versus your regular clamp-on stems?

Sorry, but I consider myself kinda new to the whole bike thing and so have little to no experience with older bike parts.


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

SpinWheelz said:


> 1" headtube = threaded forks. Got it.


Let's try this again, maybe I'm typing with invisible ink.

http://aebike.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=30&SKU=FK2431


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

SpinWheelz said:


> Pardon my further silly questions here, but I'm not too sure how threaded steerer tubes/headsets work. I mean, I've installed a few threadless 1-1/8th forks now that I know what I'm doing with those. Slip the crown race on the steerer tube, slip it in the headtube, clamp on the stem, done. When threaded steerer tubes and headsets? I have no idea. What function does the threading hold? How will I know if I need to use one of these quill stems versus your regular clamp-on stems?
> 
> Sorry, but I consider myself kinda new to the whole bike thing and so have little to no experience with older bike parts.


Everything you always wanted to know about threaded headsets. Park Tool


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

The top portion of a "threaded fork" is easily identified by the presence of threads:










A threaded headset holds the fork to the frame using a nut:










The quill stem is then inserted into the steer tube where it is tightened independent of the headset. Since the stem does not hold the bearings in place, the stem can be adjusted up and down without having to worry about the headset.


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

Thank you very much for dumbing it way down for me, fellas. Thanks for the visual aids, laffeaux. airwreck, I didn't mean to be obtuse or to be blow off your reply there - I was just trying to sum up what is likely to be the most common 'format' of 1" forks. That being said, I'm thrilled to see 1" threadless forks so easy to get hold of if I need it. And I've also been able to find 1" threadless headsets.


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

I'd been doing lots of 1" fork searching lately so it was still fresh in my mind.

I started wading through the old trek catalogs also to determine when they dropped mtb lugs and went tig but I got sidetracked.

Soft spot for the old treks, here's a couple of the second year models, 84?, that's mine on the right.


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## loonyOne (Dec 25, 2003)

My 1990 930 requires the 1" steer tube, and is a lugged frame. The lugs are not ornate in any way, but it does ride really nice nonetheless. I _think _Trek stopped making the lugged frames in '82, but I could be wrong there. There are always "900-series" frames/bikes on eBay. Good luck!


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

*Failed restoration*

Well, over the weekend I chanced upon a lugged steel Trek 950 in decent condition. It was owned by my local shop wrench and he was interested in selling it. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse so I told him I'd buy it. Picked it up today. Took it home and started to take it apart.

The idea behind this project was to repaint the frame (rattle can job) and convert the ride into a singlespeed mainly for road use. I wanted to use the large chainring upfront - a 46T - and an 18T cog in the rear. Slap some flipped cruiser bars on the thing, some new v-brakes and I was there!

Alas, the project barely got off the ground when I realized that this is may not work out in my favor. Mainly because some of the 10 year-old parts were 'too old' for my ability to work with them. I tried removing the cassette, but the lockring was jammed. With my home tools I had no chance in hell of removing that lockring. When I tried to remove the crank, I found that it had an old school bolt - not a present-day hex crank bolt - holding it in. None of my metric wrenches fit this bolt, so removing the crank to get rid of the smaller chainrings was right out.

That's when I realized that I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this bike. I thought I was going to be able to convert this to a singlespeed ride with minimal fuss. Now I realize that I don't even have half the right tools to play with these older parts. I hate to go back to the bike shop and have them take this part off or put that part back on for me - that wasn't the point of the project. I wanted to do almost all of it myself.

And so I called up my wrench and told him that I don't think I can work with the bike, and that I was really sorry that I may have to return the bike to him. Being the great guy that he is, he was terribly accomodating and said that it wasn't a problem and that I could drop the bike off anytime.

On the one hand, I'm relieved. On the other, I'm also terribly disappointed that this project didn't come to fruition. Maybe this wasn't the bike for me. Maybe down the road I'll find another frame that I can work with, who knows. What I do know is that I would love to own a lugged steel frame one day. And maybe one day I will.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

*Two things for you*

1. The crank bolt or nut, (yes it cuold be either one) is probably a 14mm. But, because it's recessed into the crankarms, you'll need a thinwalled socket to get it out properly. There is an outside chance that it is a 15mm bolt/nut, as well, but I doubt it.

2. Are you sure it was a "cassette" cogset, or possibly is this a freewheel? The mechanic you purchased it from should know. You should be able to run the rear wheel back to him and have him remove it for you. I would guess he'd do it for free, and maybe even show you how it's done, if your interested.

Don't give up! Learning new stuff about bikes is fun, and in the future, you'll know how to take care of things yourself. Plus, you'll be able to hang on to that lugged steed, and ride it sooner than later!


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## loonyOne (Dec 25, 2003)

Like GuitarTed said, keep it and you'll have fun learning how to work on it. Yes, retro components require lots of odd and obscure tools by today's standards, but why not bite off a bit more than usual from time to time!! Way back when I raced BMX, my Dad taught me which tools are needed for 'X' project, and ways to bend the rules when the proper tool is not readily available. Nothing like tinkering with your own ride, especially the one you're going to race over the weekend...or maybe just the one you want to ride on a semi-weekly commute. I do all of the wrenching on my (and those that ask for help) bike and find it extremely satisfying. Just like you said, you wanted to do it all on your own...so what are you waiting for!! Heck, you can email me with questions if ya want, I'll help ya with it.


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

Thanks for the support, fellas. loonyOne, thanks for your offer to handhold me through this process. I might take you up on it.

I slept on it last night. Well, kinda. This dilemma actually kept me up in bed for a few hours noodling in my head about what on earth to do. I realized that I'm being a total bloody poosy for letting a lockring and crank bolt throw me out of the game here. I got my wrench's word that he'd help me with this project so what I ought to do take him up on his offer.

The lockring is jammed stuck. I'm hoping that the shop has a better quality lockring tool that they can use to get it out, or perhaps they know of some trade tricks to get the leverage needed to unjam the thing. As for the crank bolt, I thought my 14mm socket wrench would make it work. Unfortunately, the 14mm wrench is too big for the bolt and a 13mm wrench doesn't fit. The bolt is not stripped either, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

Bottom line is, if the crank bolt can't be removed, then this project is dead in the water anyway. The lockring - yes it is a cassette lockring, not a freewheel (I have tools for both) is slightly less of a concern because I can always buy a new set of wheels for cheap. Or maybe hit up the shop for a cheap set lying around. I'm going back to the shop to have them help me take off the cassette lockring, the crank and bottom bracket as well as the threaded headset ('cause I don't have the right tools and I can't be arsed to go knock it out with the splayed PVC pipe). If they can do that for me, then I'll move forward full speed ahead. Otherwise, I think I'm going to have to give the bike back and maybe look for a stand-alone lugged steel frame.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

SpinWheelz said:


> Bottom line is, if the crank bolt can't be removed, then this project is dead in the water anyway. The lockring - yes it is a cassette lockring, not a freewheel (I have tools for both) is slightly less of a concern because I can always buy a new set of wheels for cheap. Or maybe hit up the shop for a cheap set lying around. I'm going back to the shop to have them help me take off the cassette lockring, the crank and bottom bracket as well as the threaded headset ('cause I don't have the right tools and I can't be arsed to go knock it out with the splayed PVC pipe). If they can do that for me, then I'll move forward full speed ahead. Otherwise, I think I'm going to have to give the bike back and maybe look for a stand-alone lugged steel frame.


Ah, hell, if the bolt won't come out, drill the bolts and pull the arms. All you have to do is drill enough into the bolts that the ends are separated from the portion that threads into the BB. This will free the arms from the BB but the BB will be scrap. You'll then be able to get the BB out which you'll need to replace so don't worry about drilling too far. Cheap BBs cost $20 new and you can probably dig something up out of a parts bin or the like for cheap or free. See if the shop has a parts bin with used ones.

Good luck and good choice in moving foreward.

cheers


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## logbiter (Dec 30, 2003)

yeah, the crank bolt is 14mm. My craftsman 3/8" drive fits, but I've had others where the walls are too thick to slide the socket in...
I'd take it to the shop with a tasty sixer or two and have 'em remove the crank, BB and lockring for ya. 
just putting in some positive feedback for ya, since I'm not adding much new. sweet frames those were


SpinWheelz said:


> Thanks for the support, fellas. loonyOne, thanks for your offer to handhold me through this process. I might take you up on it.
> 
> I slept on it last night. Well, kinda. This dilemma actually kept me up in bed for a few hours noodling in my head about what on earth to do. I realized that I'm being a total bloody poosy for letting a lockring and crank bolt throw me out of the game here. I got my wrench's word that he'd help me with this project so what I ought to do take him up on his offer.
> 
> ...


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

Turns out I had the right tool for the crank bolt after all - no need to buy new crank bolts!

Couple of nights ago, I took the whole rig down to the shop and asked the boys to help me remove the cassette lockring, the crank, the bottom bracket and the headset. They happily obliged, did it all for a 4-pack of Oatmeal Stout (they seemed to know exactly what they wanted when I mentioned beer... hmmm)

So I now have a stripped frame (save for a few bolts here and there), and it's ready to be sanded down for repainting. I also ordered a few new parts for the build.

Thanks for all the advice and direction, fellas. I thought this was lost cause but thanks to you lot (well, pretty much everyone except one very bitter tard) I think this might turn out OK after all. If anyone can tell me how old this frame might be based on the color, that would rock. It came with a ton of LX parts - derailleurs, shifters, hubs. The Vintage Trek site wasn't too helpful on this front 'cause the catalogs listed show mostly road bikes.

As I progress with the build, I'll probably need to tap your expertise. Thanks again, all.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

SpinWheelz said:


> If anyone can tell me how old this frame might be based on the color, that would rock. It came with a ton of LX parts - derailleurs, shifters, hubs. The Vintage Trek site wasn't too helpful on this front 'cause the catalogs listed show mostly road bikes.


If you have the LX components that came on the bike, find the manufactuer date on them and you can estimate the frames age (which should be in the early '90s).

http://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm#shimano


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## SpinWheelz (May 3, 2004)

Thank you so much for that lead and that link, laffeaux. I went and looked at the parts. The imprints go from OJ to OL. Therefore, going by the Vintage Trek guide, O would mean 1990. I checked the catalog archive at Vintage Trek and the colors don't match for a 1999 Trek 950. Therefore it must be a 1991 model!

Sweet. Thanks again!


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

SpinWheelz said:


> Thank you so much for that lead and that link, laffeaux. I went and looked at the parts. The imprints go from OJ to OL. Therefore, going by the Vintage Trek guide, O would mean 1990. I checked the catalog archive at Vintage Trek and the colors don't match for a 1999 Trek 950. Therefore it must be a 1991 model!
> 
> Sweet. Thanks again!


Yeah, I'd guess '91. If the components were made in in Oct-Dec of '90 they were destined to be on a '91 frame.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

*Something about those lugged Treks*

I also have a thing for the early Treks. I rode a black 1989 or 1990 SingleTrack with the black ano Matrix rims that belonged to my best friend and it was a very cool ride. It just sat in his backyard gathering webs and I traded one of my bikes for it. The frame and fork was just right for me and that thing climbed. Unfortunately my short brother took it out for a spin and he jammed the seatpost so far down that I couldn't remove the post.Grrrr  
One of the best bikes out there. I'm keeping an eye out for one.


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## loonyOne (Dec 25, 2003)

laffeaux said:


> Yeah, I'd guess '91. If the components were made in in Oct-Dec of '90 they were destined to be on a '91 frame.


Don't know about the components part of identifying, but the seat lug is a giveaway that it is not a '90. The '90 seat lug is really square in shape where the "Trek" is cast into it, whereas yours is rounded in this area. That, and contacting Trek directly should give you a year fer sure due to the decal colors. My '90 was silver and had these really gay blue and pink decals. Man, I hated that.


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## t2p (Jul 22, 2004)

SpinWheelz said:


> Turns out I had the right tool for the crank bolt after all - no need to buy new crank bolts!
> 
> Couple of nights ago, I took the whole rig down to the shop and asked the boys to help me remove the cassette lockring, the crank, the bottom bracket and the headset. They happily obliged, did it all for a 4-pack of Oatmeal Stout (they seemed to know exactly what they wanted when I mentioned beer... hmmm)
> 
> ...


.
.
The frame appears to be good shape - including the paint. I would not strip and re-paint the frame.
.


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