# coolest cantilever brakes?



## evo1313 (Apr 10, 2008)

I am wondering what you think some of the coolest retro cantilever brakes were ever produced.
If you have pics, that would be an added bonus.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

evo1313 said:


> I am wondering what you think some of the coolest retro cantilever brakes were ever produced.
> If you have pics, that would be an added bonus.


I collect a *Few Pictures* over the years.

Enjoy.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

i like shimano xtr. i really do...


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## evo1313 (Apr 10, 2008)

Patineto, that is quite a collection of photos. Very cool!
I am looking for for a set of brakes that work with regular pull levers.
I currently have the Onza set up but would like some thing a little more radical looking.
I have a set of Machine tech hubs so a set of their brakes would be a cool compliment, just in case any of you know where a set are.


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## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

Always thought suntour - xc-pros were the most elegant...but coolest looking would probably be machine tech - Zero Flex...


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## longcat (Apr 24, 2008)

Id say Machine Tech zero flex


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## evo1313 (Apr 10, 2008)

So I guess that means finding a set (machine tech) to match my hubs is going to be hard to find and then hard on the wallet too.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

I've always been partial to the Paul Stoplights/Stoplight MC's. I also really dig the Neo-retro's too.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

dia compe 986 and 987


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

On-One said:


> Always thought suntour - xc-pros were the most elegant...but coolest looking would probably be machine tech - Zero Flex...


You read my mind.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

evo1313 said:


> Patineto, that is quite a collection of photos. Very cool!


Thanks senor.

Well I try to have pictures of as many cool parts as possible.

Just for future reference, I'm just afraid the good old days of bike design will be lost someday only to memories.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

I like the look and feel of the Paul stoplights also. Pretty simple to setup and fairly minimal looking. 

I also really liked the feel of Joe's brakes, but they were silly to set up as you had to red loctite sleeves to the brake posts and they really were kind of crude looking besides. 

Avid Tri aligns are fairly abundant, easy to set up and feel and look pretty good.

Onzas are kind of clunky looking and I guess are failure prone, though I don't recall seeing too many break. Just the thought of that makes me shy away at this point though.

I've never really liked the Dia Compe 986s. I never can get them to feel right. They either feel squishy or no power, no matter how much I tweak the straddle angle.

Critical Racing brakes are similar in look to Graftons or Joe's I guess. They are horrible. Worst brake ever. Anybody who has them should remove them immediately and send them to me for proper disposal.  

Seriously, I need some parts in green and blue.

Shimano's offerings kind of go without saying. Maybe not as blingy but as Billy Dee Williams would say, works every time!


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## klein nerd (Apr 9, 2008)

*grafton brakes rule*

I like graftons for their early significance. They were one of the first aftermarket brake and they realy set the standard for performance. yes they were hard to set up, but they were long. way longer than anything else out. long = leverage. I realy like tomac's one time set up of xtr servo levers with grafton brakes. I bet that set up worked well.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

I've always been partial to Graftons. The other thing significant about them was they were the first truly low profile brakes. My 1990 Klein Attitude came with Dia-Comp 986's in the rear because your heel would on an XT cantilever.

I replaced these brakes with Pedersen SE, which were pretty low profile, but not nearly as narrow as the Graftons. I feel that as a result, everyone had to respond in some fashion. John Grafton is owed a pat on the back from all riders, IMHO.

'Guin


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

patineto said:


> Thanks senor.
> 
> Well I try to have pictures of as many cool parts as possible.


You shouldn't take credit for those photos since several of them are pictures that I took.


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## Elevation12000 (Jun 16, 2004)

Hi,

I recently put this on my Yo:










Crystal Design brakes with Grafton FatFingers carriers. I like the CD brakes. Pretty simple construction, easy to adjust. Stopping power is very good. They look good too.

For another build I have a Grafton Johnny Jewels prepared. They look exceptionally refined, but I do not know whether they will be durable. A little more complicated construction with more bits. Especially the bits with which you adjust the angle of the pads do not give a very convincing feel.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

colker1 said:


> i like shimano xtr. i really do...


Agreed.

Understated and work great.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

IRD Switchbacks!


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm always partial by that lad that was Marinovative and his products. Everybody ripped his ideas and he kept going, for a while at least.

You folks may want to check out Joel Metz's page of obscure brakes.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

I always thought the Curve OM brakes on my '96 Kona are pretty sweet looking although they don't work particularly well...


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> You shouldn't take credit for those photos since several of them are pictures that I took.


Oh Eric I'm not taking credit for anything,

This are photos that I have found over the net on public sites (many times making Goggle searches and clueless about who the autor is in most cases) and I'm just trying to archive and make a compilation of them so they can be easy to find and secure for posterity on a photo sharing site that is not going away any time soon.

Look at it as a "community service" since I have no gain from it at all, in fact it cost me money,


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## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

+1 for XTR M900 but also Campagnolo Record OR


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## evo1313 (Apr 10, 2008)

I just googled the IRD's, and I would agree that those are very cool!
Are they remotely accessable for purchase?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

evo1313 said:


> I just googled the IRD's, and I would agree that those are very cool!
> Are they remotely accessable for purchase?


They come up on Ebay from time to time an are generally relatively reasonable.


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## Elevation12000 (Jun 16, 2004)

patineto said:


> Oh Eric I'm not taking credit for anything,
> 
> This are photos that I have found over the net on public sites (many times making Goggle searches and clueless about who the autor is in most cases) and I'm just trying to archive and make a compilation of them so they can be easy to find and secure for posterity on a photo sharing site that is not going away any time soon.
> 
> Look at it as a "community service" since I have no gain from it at all, in fact it cost me money,


Great!

Can you add my Crystal Designs? 

Here some more that could be of use:
Suntour XC9000 (I think) on 'dale SM800
600AX on '84 Koga Miyata ProAm
MAFAC on Guerciotti cross
DA on '81 Koga Miyata ProRacer
Sachs Quarz canti on Verlicchi

..and finally for the brake booster overview  =>


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Campy Record OR


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Campy Record OR


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 13, 2007)

themanmonkey said:


> I'm always partial by that lad that was Marinovative and his products. Everybody ripped his ideas and he kept going, for a while at least.


Funny you mention that - I just unearthed a pair of mismatched NOS Cheap Tricks for an SS build I'm fnishing, one of them in the waterbottle they came in. Way ahead of their time. Ben Capron is one smart dude.


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## klein nerd (Apr 9, 2008)

*onza's copies of boulder brakes?*

I remember mba raving about boulder brakes. They looked liked onza's only 5 years earlier. But I think they were the first brake to have independent adjustment features, ie pad angle vs toe in and height. copied by avid. I bet these brakes are rare. Onza brakes seem to look cheap.


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## top_ring (Feb 9, 2004)

Avid Tri Aligns...II and III. Nice modulation with good stopping power.


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## bw286 (Oct 14, 2007)

that's my bike!


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

I always loved the look of the onZa HO cantis (structural problems aside):










but the coolest canti award must surely go to the Brodevani ABS units - just crazy!










:thumbsup:


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## Slonie (Sep 27, 2006)

Oh my god, those ABS brakes. Really? And they do what I think they do?



I'm having my mind blown over and over by lurking in this forum...


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## Elevation12000 (Jun 16, 2004)

Honestly a lbs always tries to sell the Brodevani brakes to me, but I always try to avoid.


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## harzkristall (Jul 6, 2006)

i quite like the control tech cantis.

very light, supereasy setup.

very simple, very clean looking. 

casted bodies- opposed to their 

v-brakes (linear side pull brakes they were called) which

were millled.

will take a picture later.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

mechagouki said:


> I always loved the look of the onZa HO cantis (structural problems aside):


Please credit pictures.
This is my picture of my old Diamond Back Overdrive Comp I took for Joel Metz's page (linked above).

If you take pictures from the web please get permission or give credit.

I too like the Onza brakes, too bad that can also be called breaks. This is why I've got something like 10 pair.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Wow, why are people so uptight about photo credit? It's not like somebody is profiting off another person's picture in this instance. Jeez, maybe I should ask ckevlar to change his avatar since that picture of the 'gold teeth same day' sign was taken by me in Savannah on my wedding day.

Hey themanmonkey maybe you should credit H.A. Rey for your avatar.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

IF52 said:


> Wow, why are people so uptight about photo credit? It's not like somebody is profiting off another person's picture in this instance. Jeez, maybe I should ask ckevlar to change his avatar since that picture of the 'gold teeth same day' sign was taken by me in Savannah on my wedding day.
> 
> Hey themanmonkey maybe you should credit H.A. Rey for your avatar.


x2. It's not a very good picture to begin with.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Wow, why are people so uptight about photo credit? It's not like somebody is profiting off another person's picture in this instance. Jeez, maybe I should ask ckevlar to change his avatar since that picture of the 'gold teeth same day' sign was taken by me in Savannah on my wedding day.
> 
> Hey themanmonkey maybe you should credit H.A. Rey for your avatar.


I can understand why it might be important to some people (not in this case though). If it matters to you, watermark your name in the photo before puting it on the web.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

themanmonkey said:


> Please credit pictures.
> This is my picture of my old Diamond Back Overdrive Comp I took for Joel Metz's page (linked above).
> 
> If you take pictures from the web please get permission or give credit.
> ...


I apologise, but I found the picture through a Google image search and it wasn't credited to anyone.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

IF52 said:


> Hey themanmonkey maybe you should credit H.A. Rey for your avatar.


Sorry HR has nothing to do with my avatar it's 100% parody of Curious George with hand drawn wheels and wrench by my wife made for me 10ish years ago and falls within the fair-use doctrine.

I'm not pissed that someone is using my crappy pic, but that it's presented as if it's your own. Had they said "Here's a crappy pic I downloaded someplace" that would be totally cool.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

mechagouki said:


> I apologise, but I found the picture through a Google image search and it wasn't credited to anyone.


No sweat, It's just a courtesy issue and I'm not pissed. If you want some good pics PM me and I'll see if I can get you some from my stash.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

Gravity Research Pipe Dreams!

Tubular like Avids, minus one angle of adjustment. if you had 'em, you know what I'm say'n.

And I have one silver & one black set! :thumbsup:


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

themanmonkey said:


> Sorry HR has nothing to do with my avatar it's 100% parody of Curious George with hand drawn wheels and wrench by my wife made for me 10ish years ago and falls within the fair-use doctrine.


That is a tough claim to make. It is clearly representative of Curious George. I can assure you that depending on how the drawing was use, whether draw by you wife or not, if the right to its image was owned by some company like Disney or Porsche for example they would send a lawyer your way. The way, you are using it, yes fair-use.

My point was that you calling out Mechagouki for using your photo, never claiming it as his own, is about as silly as me calling you out for using an appropriated representation of Curious George.


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 13, 2007)

IF52 said:


> Hey themanmonkey maybe you should credit H.A. Rey for your avatar.


He roosts on trials bikes _and_ he can draw? Man, that dude is talented. 

If anyone can remind me of the name of the artist who drew my avatar, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I'll just credit Chris Chance.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Slow Eddie said:


> If anyone can remind me of the name of the artist who drew my avatar, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I'll just credit Chris Chance.


Credit would go to some Somerville hooligan. According to Earl Bob, Yo Eddy is from graffitti on a wall in Somerville.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

IF52 said:


> That is a tough claim to make. It is clearly representative of Curious George. I can assure you that depending on how the drawing was use, whether draw by you wife or not, if the right to its image was owned by some company like Disney or Porsche for example they would send a lawyer your way. The way, you are using it, yes fair-use.


DOH! I read H.A. Ray as Hans Ray. I was thinking something about his "Monkey see, monkey do" videos.

The the monkey and idea is all Ray, the wheel, wrench, and interpretation are all my wife.

The difference between the two uses comes down too assumption of author. The character of Curious George is well known through out the western world, and beyond and, within a reasonable doubt, it can not be assumed that I was the creator of the product. A crappy image pulled off of Google presented without any annotation can be reasonable assumed to be work of the poster.

Since there was also a copyright call-out earlier by *Rumpfy* in the thread the topic was already about and later posters should be thinking about the topic. Also in my first post I linked to the original page that the image is displayed on. Alas, in this connected world not all attributions can be credited to the source. When we find something without attribution it behooves us to at least not represent it as our own. Or maybe I just live in too much of an academic world.

I also think you're taking this much more seriously than I did in my post. If you're still interested in this topic I'd recommend the book "The Letter "U" and the Numeral "2"", it's what started my fascination with the subject. If you'd still like to discuss this please reply by PM so we don't totally kill this cool thread.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Credit would go to some Somerville hooligan. According to Earl Bob, Yo Eddy is from graffitti on a wall in Somerville.


I thought Mike Popaconstantine came up with that...


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I thought Mike Popaconstantine came up with that...


I thought it was from a comic book

evil ernie/lady death or something?


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 13, 2007)

*You're totally right.*



Fillet-brazed said:


> I thought Mike Popaconstantine came up with that...


I remember it was some big-fat-greek-wedding kinda name.

Nice to see him make something of himself after a misspent youth defacing Somerville.

Maybe Redbones can commision a mural from him.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I thought Mike Popaconstantine came up with that...


Beats me. I remembered there was some story about it from back in the day, so I asked Earl if he remembered what the story was and he said they (guys from Fat) saw it graffittied on some wall in Somerville and decided to use it. Maybe Mike was the one who found it and decied to use it. Earl said 'Before Yo Eddy it was stickman' I don't know what stickman is, but I remember a comic book by Dennis Worden from back then call Stickboy that was pretty funny.

Mike is from A.N.T. right?


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

themanmonkey said:


> DOH! I read H.A. Ray as Hans Ray. I was thinking something about his "Monkey see, monkey do" videos.


Interestingly enough, the creator of Curious George was indeed named Hans Rey.



themanmonkey said:


> I also think you're taking this much more seriously than I did in my post. If you're still interested in this topic I'd recommend the book "The Letter "U" and the Numeral "2"", it's what started my fascination with the subject. If you'd still like to discuss this please reply by PM so we don't totally kill this cool thread.


Naw, I wasn't taking it too seriously. I was just bustin chops for people being possessive about their pictures. If somebody wants to use one of my crappy pictures more power to em, as long as they aren't using it in an auction or something. I just thought it was kind of ironic/humorous you called out Mecha for using your pic while you have an appropriated children's book illustration as your avatar.


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 13, 2007)

IF52 said:


> Mike is from A.N.T. right?


That one's Mike Flanagan.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Interestingly enough, the creator of Curious George was indeed named Hans Rey.
> 
> Naw, I wasn't taking it too seriously. I was just bustin chops for people being possessive about their pictures. If somebody wants to use one of my crappy pictures more power to em, as long as they aren't using it in an auction or something. I just thought it was kind of ironic/humorous you called out Mecha for using your pic while you have an appropriated children's book illustration as your avatar.


there are specific laws about copyright. is it a matter of courtesy? not anymore. images used in some specific contexts are not considered rip offs under the law. had rumpfy been ripped off money would be changing hands instead of feelings.
no one screws around copyrights...not when there is law and a lot of competent lawyers.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Beats me. I remembered there was some story about it from back in the day, so I asked Earl if he remembered what the story was and he said they (guys from Fat) saw it graffittied on some wall in Somerville and decided to use it. Maybe Mike was the one who found it and decied to use it. Earl said 'Before Yo Eddy it was stickman' I don't know what stickman is, but I remember a comic book by Dennis Worden from back then call Stickboy that was pretty funny.
> 
> Mike is from A.N.T. right?


actually it may have been that stickman guy that Popaconstantine came up with. I used to have a FAT water bottle with the stickman on it. It also had the initials "M.P." on it.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> actually it may have been that stickman guy that Popaconstantine came up with. I used to have a FAT water bottle with the stickman on it. It also had the initials "M.P." on it.


What a coinkydink, Scott Bengtson over on FatCOGS, who was a welder at Fat, just posted up something earlier today about Mike Pappaconstantine first drawing Yo Eddy. I guess Earl was mistaken, or Mike got the idea from the graffitti.


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## harzkristall (Jul 6, 2006)

*control tech cantilevers*

ok, finally a photo of the controltechs:










cheers,
uli


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## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

*Well then....*

I'm not mad, I'm just dissappointed. All these replies and not one vote for Schwinn clamp-on cantis.......


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## longcat (Apr 24, 2008)

surly357 said:


> I'm not mad, I'm just dissappointed. All these replies and not one vote for Schwinn clamp-on cantis.......


Hey man its machinetech or notech, machinetech is the coolest brakes ever made period, doesnt matter how cool the next xtr discs are, machinetechs are machinetechs and thats that, there is no other alternative. machinetech. phattest **** ever built. just because.


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## wheelbender6 (Sep 25, 2007)

I have seen a lot of cool canti brakes. My favorite canti FRAME is the Ibis Mojo (steel models), with the "hand job" cable guide for the rear brake.


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## palmix (Jan 31, 2004)

Hello, it's my first post in this forum... because I'm collecting parts for my first classic ride, on a Klein Rascal '93. Just last night I won an auction for a set of Grafton SC-II cantilevers, and don´t know very much but the pictures in the auction... A mate in the Spanish forum has posted this attached image taken from a magazine (MBA Spring Catalogue 1994) it seems that this was the later version of Grafton Factory and appeared that year 1994, does anybody have more information or pics of these brakes on a bike??


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

I'm going to pick three:

Grafton: long arms, low profile, worked great, looked great
WTB: I love the way they look
Brooklyn Machine Works: totally crude and totally b!tchin', they came with a brake booster


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

My favorites:

Avid Tri-Align - super adjustable, easy to set up, worked great

Dia Comp 987 - light weight, looked great

Paul Stoplight MC - light weight, looked great


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

In no particular order:

Mafac
Grafton (1st generation)
Campy OR
XTR (1st generation)
WTB
Paul's (1st generation)
986
IRD Switchback(how could I have forgotten them ?)


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

M730/2 - look good and work nice too.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

I have to give an honorable mention to the Paul Stoplights. I wanted a set so bad, back in the day.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

palmix said:


> Just last night I won an auction for a set of Grafton SC-II cantilevers, and don´t know very much but the pictures in the auction...


Cool score. I was watching that auction. Not sure if it's a good deal or not but, $170 was too rich for me!

Post some pics of your build when you're done. :thumbsup:


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Machine Techs just for the looks. And they in fact worked pretty well.
Avids sucked if you used the stock straddle cable, which was made basically of chewing gum. 
Let's face it, XTR/ XT/ LX, set up right, worked as well as any of the CNC stuff. 
I know Onzas were known for cracking. I have heard also of 986's, Ritchey Logics and Avids suffering from similar issues. Can anyone confirm?


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm sorry folks there is only one word that matters. . . . Marinovative.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

themanmonkey said:


> I'm sorry folks there is only one word that matters. . . . Marinovative.


The Ti brakes are pretty cool and the Cheap Tricks are nifty too.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

uphiller said:


> Machine Techs just for the looks. And they in fact worked pretty well.
> Avids sucked if you used the stock straddle cable, which was made basically of chewing gum.
> Let's face it, XTR/ XT/ LX, set up right, worked as well as any of the CNC stuff.
> I know Onzas were known for cracking. I have heard also of 986's, Ritchey Logics and Avids suffering from similar issues. Can anyone confirm?


I and many of my friends used the 986 for years with no problems. I heard of the 987s and Ritcheys (same brake) failing, never been a fan of any Avid brakes other than BB7s.


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## josegraff (Nov 7, 2004)

*987's*

Put me down for 987's. Light (enough), durable, and easy dual-spring tension adjustablity (for that oh-so-soft lever feel).


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

Josegraff, let's talk about that fork crown. It is a thing of beauty!


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Vlad said:


> Josegraff, let's talk about that fork crown. It is a thing of beauty!


You too can have one just call Kirk.


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## Tubedriver (Sep 19, 2008)

I'll second that. :thumbsup:



top_ring said:


> Avid Tri Aligns...II and III. Nice modulation with good stopping power.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Can easily be found on Rawland Olaf's. 

Brooklyn Snot Rockets! with a name like that, how can you loose?

I just put a set of the new Kore brakes on my CX bike. I'm pleasantly surprised. They work well, and they were CHEAP.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

WTB-rider said:


> I and many of my friends used the 986 for years with no problems. I heard of the 987s and Ritcheys (same brake) failing, never been a fan of any Avid brakes other than BB7s.


Hmm, never seen a 986/987/Ritchey failing or breaking...only braking 

Those three are among my faves due to their simplicity and in the case of the Dia-Compe versions, the ability to really fine-tune the spring tension.


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## josegraff (Nov 7, 2004)

Vlad - agreed, the crown is beautiful. Sadly, it's not vintage. Kirk Pacenti makes it; I think his inspiration was the Ritchey bottle-opener crown from the early 90's.

These brakes and fork reside on my Rawland Olaf, it's truly a well thought out bicycle. I've set it up as a drop-bar fixed gear for riding my favorite trails. I can't say enough good things about this bike, to top it off, it's extremely affordable. You should check them out: http://www.rawlandcycles.com


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## palmix (Jan 31, 2004)

J_Westy said:


> Cool score. I was watching that auction. Not sure if it's a good deal or not but, $170 was too rich for me!
> 
> Post some pics of your build when you're done. :thumbsup:


Hi, here are the brakes... it's strange to never hear about them... the only reference I found is this page:

http://www.bikepro.com/products/brakes/brakecanti/grafton.shtml



> GRAFTON SPEED CONTROLLER II CANTILEVER BRAKE
> 
> At the time this section was being written (June, 1994) the parts for the SC II were being machined in Southern California and the brake wasn't yet available. The SC II is said to have a sealed design and multiple adjustments. It will have Dia Compe brake pads and be available in Blue, Black, Lavender, Red, or Silver.


They are very light (128 gr. with Kool Stop pads, w/o cable and Tri-dangle) and all hardware is titanium except some washers and springs.
________


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## Pelly_NH (Feb 15, 2005)

MACHINE TECH ZERO-FLEX QL...Some of the best-looking brakes I've seen. I did love the design of my old Avid Arch Supremes though....And the Tri-Align was a classic.

Can't find a good pic of the MachineTech brakes....Too bad...


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## CiroSM (Dec 7, 2020)

holden said:


> XTR M900


I love the retaining system of the brake pad. Campagnolo OR, Tektro 866 and Remo Castagnino Brakes! all the same system similat to rod-end-bearing. very easy to set up: only a 10mm wrench and "MAXIMAL" degree of freedom


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