# Berms and front-wheel washout



## Swell Guy (Jan 20, 2005)

At North* you can't turn (or brake) too aggressively anyhow, but I feel like something in my technique is lacking. On fast tight turns, sometimes with accompanying bermage, I sometimes turn too aggressively and my front wheel washes out. I do just fine keeping my weight centered and am better at railing turns than I used to be, but I gotta think that it has something to do with my weight being too far back.

Any suggestions on tight turns? I'm starting to whip the back end around, but still not unweighting it enough, so I think my weight needs to be farther forward. And don't even think about countersteering, but if you have any suggestions for that feel free to share.


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

Brake before the corner
Lean more

Look where you want to go, if your bike doesn't follow you need new tires.


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## Swell Guy (Jan 20, 2005)

Had brand new tires when this was happening.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

What tires are you running?


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

I have been working on my cornering technique for the past year and still not where I want to be but I find that apart form correct weighting its important to make sure you pushing down with your inside hand rather than turn the front wheel. I still wash out from time to time but recently I have found that cornering is as fun as jumping. Some of the pics in the Rennie thread on Ridemonkey show how much conering can be if you get it dialled.


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## PepperJester (Jan 2, 2003)

is your wheel washing out the top of the berm or sliding down to the bottom?


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

^^^good point. Is your front wheel even on the berm. I used to aim so low I was flat turning. Remember, your back weel will not have the same line as the front so it does help to aim for the berm and secure the front well.


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

Head up, lean forward so your weight is through the front tyre's contact point, elbows out, look where you want to go and turn your body in that direction. Lowering your center of gravity by bending your arms and legs (squatting, effectively) as you go through the apex will increase traction.


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

Don't forget to point your knee into the apex of the turn to help initiate the turn.


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

Have you tried fine tuning your fork settings yet?


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

Two things always help me:
1. Start high end low - that means at the beginning of the berm you want to be near the highest point and as you go thru the berm you drop lower and lower to the exit. This allows you to use the face of the berm to accelerate you as you go through and also minimizes the chance of washing out at the exit, which is were most riders wash.
2. As others have mentioned look through the turn. If you look right were your tire is going you won't be set up for the exit and will wash.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Your center of gravity should be centered over the bike but you shouldn't always be lined up straight with the bike. Inside arm almost straight with more pressure on the outside hand. Point with your belly button through the turn too.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

If you're using a Kenda Blue Groove at N*, chuck it and try something else. I was sliding out in the corners on Livewire without any warning.


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## Swell Guy (Jan 20, 2005)

Minion DHF front (2.7) and back (2.5). Pretty sure it's technique. I'll keep working.


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## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

Get your body square with the exit of the turn. Lean the bike more than your body and drop the outside pedal if in a flat/off-camber turn (not for most berms though, you stay more in line with the bike and keep your pedals level). Make sure you aren't touching the front brake in the turn.

Remember that there is a limit to your traction so you can only turn so hard before starting to slide. This is where drifting comes in - you would much rather slide the rear tire than the front. If your front is sliding before the rear, your weight is probably too far back (or not doing something listed above  ) .


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## Phil Winn (May 11, 2005)

*if...*

your front wheel is washing out on turns and your back wheel is sticking. you need to put more weight on the front. move you body position a litte more towards the front.

lemme know how that works...

P"


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## NEstinkyrider (Sep 10, 2007)

juan pablo said:


> I have been working on my cornering technique for the past year and still not where I want to be but I find that apart form correct weighting its important to make sure you pushing down with your inside hand rather than turn the front wheel. I still wash out from time to time but recently I have found that cornering is as fun as jumping. Some of the pics in the Rennie thread on Ridemonkey show how much conering can be if you get it dialled.


^^ can you post the link to the thread you reference?


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## wyrm (Jan 19, 2004)

I call tires. The Minion DHF in my experience was not the best on cornering. The problem is that it has Center knobs and Corner knobs.... no Transition knobs. For me it created a tipping point. I would initiate a lean and the tire would hold just fine, then break loose and suddenly catch the cornering knobs. The High Rollers for me worked tons better. They would consistently edge. 

Problem with my theory is that you are having problems in the berms. All my experience has been on the flats. So what do I know? It could be a technique issue.


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## lalocotequinta (Mar 28, 2007)

wyrm said:


> I call tires. The Minion DHF in my experience was not the best on cornering. The problem is that it has Center knobs and Corner knobs.... no Transition knobs.
> 
> Bullcrap, I have not had a problem riding berms at full speed on my Minions.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

wyrm said:


> I call tires. The Minion DHF in my experience was not the best on cornering. The problem is that it has Center knobs and Corner knobs.... no Transition knobs. For me it created a tipping point. I would initiate a lean and the tire would hold just fine, then break loose and suddenly catch the cornering knobs. The High Rollers for me worked tons better. They would consistently edge.
> 
> Problem with my theory is that you are having problems in the berms. All my experience has been on the flats. So what do I know? It could be a technique issue.


rofl

yah, I agree though, its only the most winning non spike tire in the WC, and pretty much every national circuit out there, 50-60% of the field runs them at WC's, I'm pretty much certain you're right that they cant corner for sh1t.

But seriously, minions corner fantastically at N*. If your front tire is washing out at N*, it is 100% because you're not leaning enough. Lean more, keep your weight over the front end, and the back will slide out but the front will hold.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

lalocotequinta said:


> wyrm said:
> 
> 
> > I call tires. The Minion DHF in my experience was not the best on cornering. The problem is that it has Center knobs and Corner knobs.... no Transition knobs.
> ...


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## drsmonkey (Mar 21, 2008)

Gman086 said:


> X2 - Minions are some of the best cornering tires on the planet!!!
> 
> G MAN


X3- but adding that Minions reward an aggressive cornering style. You've got to get them over onto the edge knobs with a quickness. Anyone who says DHFs can't corner, can't corner.

DRS


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## Orangesicle (Feb 19, 2009)

This is soooo much fun to read.
Of course, everyone is right.
Do something different than you are currently doing.
I think it might be to try not leaning so much inward with your body, away from the centerline of your bike.
Try keeping the weight more centered over the pedals and over the BB and lean the bike in as needed.
I find that when I really lean myself way over the BB, I get the Minions to wash.
Looking down does the same thing.
But if I'm centered over the BB and I start drifting, even in the berms at N*, its a total, controllable blast.
And the DHF Minions are the bomb at full drift. 
Fully predictable unless they are thrashed. Then they just drift earlier...

And can someone post that Rennie Link at Ridemonkey?


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

Not sure which one you were referring to in specific, but here are all of them because they're all rad! But, he looks pretty leaned over in all of them.


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

wyrm said:


> I call tires. The Minion DHF in my experience was not the best on cornering. The problem is that it has Center knobs and Corner knobs.... no Transition knobs. For me it created a tipping point. I would initiate a lean and the tire would hold just fine, then break loose and suddenly catch the cornering knobs. The High Rollers for me worked tons better. They would consistently edge.
> 
> Problem with my theory is that you are having problems in the berms. All my experience has been on the flats. So what do I know? It could be a technique issue.


I'm going to give the benefit and say that tire choice is also dependant on riding style, some people pref the highroller for example.

For me, the DHF is still the bench mark for the best front tire I've riden to date interms of cornering traction. Grips like $hit to a blanket and when it does let go, its gradual and predictable. Something I have yet to find in another tire, and I'm looking.

Eg rubber queen/trail kings come close, but feel a little less controlled once they slip a little, they do how ever roll a bazzilion times faster than the minon ever did!


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## bionicman (Nov 6, 2009)

be concientious of your bar pressure
remember you want to work with the suspension not against it
which brings up another area to monitor - suspension travel
if you are bottoming the suspension or similar this will affect tire traction levels

RC


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Hey, for the Rennie fans, here are a couple nice pics I took of him in 09. I was fortunate enough to take part in a 1-day clinic organized by the Morewood importer here last year....it was even more unreal to see in real life than on these pics....the ground shook and small animals spontaneously combusted when he passed...


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