# Do I really need a Ti hard tail frame ?



## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Two of the bikes I'm currently looking at offer their frames in chromoly and Ti. I was initially set on a Ti frame but the more I think about it I keep asking myself is it worth paying 3x the cost on a frame. Aside from saving 2lbs. is there a huge benefit to a Ti frame. I tell myself I could put the $ into a higher end build but then I go right back to wanting that Ti frame. 
Can you help talk me out of it or why I should just go for it.
I'm not a racer and there's not much in the way of climbing where that weight saving would matter.Something about that Ti frame though. Talk some sense into me please.

For reference the bikes are a Stanton Switch9er and a RSD MC.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I've had Ti frames and like the ride of steel a lot more. In fact I sold the last Ti frame to finance a custom steel frame. My 2cents.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Design, design, design. Of the types you're talking about, you could have one model and the Ti version will be more compliant and ride more velvety. Another model, the Ti version will ride stiffer and feel quicker while the steel version will feel more compliant and muted. Without being able to ride each, its a crapshoot and you could probably make up the feel difference in tires/pressures/handlebars.

Me? Got one Ti and one steel. The one indisputable Ti advantage is that it cleans up with a Scotch Brite pad, and there is no concern of rust, abrasion, paint chips or oxidation. Either choice you make will be a good one.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

My buddy, who is 165 pounds soaking wet and who rides very light on his bike, snapped the seat stay on his new this year Seven Mobius SL.








I would be leery of Ti. I have heard of too many horror stories about issues at the welds.

Ended his season early. He has almost $20k sunk into that bike.

I’d go for steel.

But then again, I have 3 steel bikes in my garage that I worship - a Honzo, a Unit and a Paddy Wagon. I have more bikes than I want to admit. If I could keep only one. It would not be my Druid. Or my e-bike. It would be my beloved steel Honzo


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Just before the turn of the century I wanted a ti frame in the worst way.
I thought, "It won't rust, offers a supple ride, doesn't have to be painted (in fact ti looks best unpainted) -- it'll be the last frame I ever buy."

So glad I never bought one.

I think of all the changes that mountain bikes have gone through since then...

Disc brakes
Tapered head tubes
Boost spacing
Major geo changes
Ti is typically hardtail only
It would not have been the last frame I ever bought.
I now ride FS bikes exclusively. Ones with modern geo.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just suggesting you consider how you'll feel in a few years.
Maybe you only buy one bike every 10-15 years or so (whereas I don't.)
I average a new bike each year.
But if it fits your master plan, ti is absolutely still a cool metal -- maybe the coolest.
=sParty


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

That Mobius is not a good look. If it were mine, I'd get warranty replacement and sell it straight away.

That said, OP don't let the above post sway you one way or the other. Hardtail design is an entirely different ball game and titanium lends itself well to double-diamond hardtail bike frames, but not necessarily anything else. The ones you're looking at are probably made by ORA in Taiwan, which are Ti wizards and make a frame of excellent quality. Yes, Ti can break, and so can everything else including steel.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

BadgerOne said:


> That Mobius is not a good look. If it were mine, I'd get warranty replacement and sell it straight away.
> 
> That said, OP don't let the above post sway you one way or the other. Hardtail design is an entirely different ball game and titanium lends itself well to double-diamond hardtail bike frames, but not necessarily anything else. The ones you're looking at are probably made by ORA in Taiwan, which are Ti wizards and make a frame of excellent quality. Yes, Ti can break, and so can everything else including steel.


Don’t disagree. Another buddy of mine is rocking a Ti Chromag with zero issues. Other guys I know rode Moots and LiteSpeed Ti frames for years with no issues.

All that said, I have heard of a lot of issues with Ti welds. Just throwing my anecdotal evidence (with a pic I snapped a week ago) into the pot for the OP to consider. He can do with it what he wishes. He asked us to talk him out of a ti frame. That’s all I got.

PS - I also know a metric $hit tonne of guys who have been rocking the ti Honzo HARD on pro lines for years. You are preaching to the converted. Personally, all other things equal, I think steel is a little more robust. But hey, wouldn’t be the first time I’m wrong.


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

I've got a Ti frame (Motobecane) that isn't one of the top name brands but I've put thousands of miles on that bike since 2013, and ridden it as both a full-geared / front suspension bike and as a single-speed bike (the current set up), and it's in fine shape....thought about rebuilding it into a gravel bike due to the older geometry.....


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## AJ Morris (Jul 4, 2020)

Whether a Ti bike is "worth it" is something only you can answer. I tend to think the potential benefits are too nebulous to quantify.

That said, the way I see it, I'd personally rather build a steel frame and sink my money into a good fork, brakes etc. For the same money, I'll bet you could have a nicer build on a steel bike and be pretty competitive with a ti bike weight wise... 

Sure Ti won't rust, but given even half-assed attention to basic maintenance, you are more likely to break a steel frame long before rust becomes an issue.


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## TGRRDR (Dec 9, 2017)

jiggerjake said:


> Two of the bikes I'm currently looking at offer their frames in chromoly and Ti. I was initially set on a Ti frame but the more I think about it I keep asking myself is it worth paying 3x the cost on a frame. Aside from saving 2lbs. is there a huge benefit to a Ti frame. I tell myself I could put the $ into a higher end build but then I go right back to wanting that Ti frame.
> Can you help talk me out of it or why I should just go for it.
> I'm not a racer and there's not much in the way of climbing where that weight saving would matter.Something about that Ti frame though. Talk some sense into me please.
> 
> For reference the bikes are a Stanton Switch9er and a RSD MC.


Nope. You don’t really “need” a Ti Hardtail frame. 
maybe the question should be: do I want a Ti frame?
The answer is yes.
Life is short so buy the Ti frame.
I did and yes, it rides and looks so good. 
modern geo, sliders, supple ride


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

AJ Morris said:


> Whether a Ti bike is "worth it" is something only you can answer. I tend to think the potential benefits are too nebulous to quantify.
> 
> That said, the way I see it, I'd personally rather build a steel frame and sink my money into a good fork, brakes etc. For the same money, I'll bet you could have a nicer build on a steel bike and be pretty competitive with a ti bike weight wise...
> 
> Sure Ti won't rust, but given even half-assed attention to basic maintenance, you are more likely to break a steel frame long before rust becomes an issue.


I coated the inside of all my steel frames with this.








I’m sure I didn’t need to.

IMHO, worrying about rust on a steel frame is tantamount to chasing ghosts. He11, my winter daily commuter is a steel framed Unit. Canadian, salt filled winters.

…sliding dropouts on my Honzo and Unit too…

PS - I’m all for a ti frame. I’m just trying to talk the OP of it, like he asked 🙂

I honestly don’t have much artillery. Trying to make the most of what little I got 😜

OP - go for it. Like others have said, life is short. If biking is your passion, and no loved ones will go hungry, then feed it.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks for all the reply thus far. Very helpful. I should also mention I'm probably 210 lbs riding weight.


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## AJ Morris (Jul 4, 2020)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I coated the inside of all my steel frames with this.
> View attachment 1958187
> 
> I’m sure I didn’t need to.
> ...


Yup, been using Fluid Film myself for decades. Works a treat.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Skip both and get the aluminum v2 MC.
Put the money in a Mezzer and Berd spoke wide rim carbon wheels.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Haha "need".

Everytime I think about a fancy Ti frame, I look at the cost and think wow, that's a nice full squish frame $$.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Shark said:


> Haha "need".
> 
> Everytime I think about a fancy Ti frame, I look at the cost and think wow, that's a nice full squish frame $$.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


EXACTLY


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## gonzo (Feb 18, 2004)

jiggerjake said:


> Two of the bikes I'm currently looking at offer their frames in chromoly and Ti. I was initially set on a Ti frame but the more I think about it I keep asking myself is it worth paying 3x the cost on a frame. Aside from saving 2lbs. is there a huge benefit to a Ti frame. I tell myself I could put the $ into a higher end build but then I go right back to wanting that Ti frame.
> Can you help talk me out of it or why I should just go for it.
> I'm not a racer and there's not much in the way of climbing where that weight saving would matter.Something about that Ti frame though. Talk some sense into me please.
> 
> For reference the bikes are a Stanton Switch9er and a RSD MC.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Just before the turn of the century I wanted a ti frame in the worst way.
> I thought, "It won't rust, offers a supple ride, doesn't have to be painted (in fact ti looks best unpainted) -- it'll be the last frame I ever buy."
> 
> So glad I never bought one.
> ...


I resemble this remark. I moved my old Ti frame for a newer one for exactly those changes - boost, geo, wide tire capacity, etc. But, I think the truly innovative stuff has been figured out at this point and I personally wouldn't have fear of missing out.

I guess I'd look at it this way - are you a hardtail guy, or are you not a hardtail guy or don't know yet? If you are sure you're a hardtail guy and always want to have one in your stable, it may be worth the investment in Ti. If you're not sure, only want one bike and don't know if a hardtail will stick around longer term, Ti might not be worth it. I'm pretty much a die-hard HT guy, so I knew mine would stick around. It has and I've ridden the hell out of it. My squish bikes are the ones that come and go. YMMV.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

BadgerOne said:


> I resemble this remark. I moved my old Ti frame for a newer one for exactly those changes - boost, geo, wide tire capacity, etc. But, I think the truly innovative stuff has been figured out at this point and I personally wouldn't have fear of missing out.
> 
> I guess I'd look at it this way - are you a hardtail guy, or are you not a hardtail guy or don't know yet? If you are sure you're a hardtail guy and always want to have one in your stable, it may be worth the investment in Ti. If you're not sure, only want one bike and don't know if a hardtail will stick around longer term, Ti might not be worth it. I'm pretty much a die-hard HT guy, so I knew mine would stick around. It has and I've ridden the hell out of it. My squish bikes are the ones that come and go. YMMV.


I agree with the last part of this. I will keep my road bikes, my hardtails and my rigid, forever. My FS are what get churned. That said, I am entering season 4 with my Druid and I have no intention of dumping it.

But agreed. A hardtail you fall in live with, will end up being a long term love affair. At least for me. I found my true love. It’s not ti. But I will never let it go. It brings me huge joy.


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## gonzo (Feb 18, 2004)

On a 26er, Ti makes a big difference, but on a 29er I can't feel the difference. Get a good wheel set with the extra cash.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Get what you want. If it’s Ti then so be it. I personally love steel and got a custom steel frame set up as a SS. Can’t go far or fast on it, but I don’t regret buying it. What I do regret is not buying it earlier. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Oops


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mtnbkrmike said:


> My buddy, who is 165 pounds soaking wet and who rides very light on his bike, snapped the seat stay on his new this year Seven Mobius SL.
> View attachment 1958180
> 
> I would be leery of Ti. I have heard of too many horror stories about issues at the welds.
> ...



To weld Ti properly, there can't be any Oxygen, it must all be displaced while welding. In practice, this makes it challenging to get perfect titanium welds. Not impossible, but they are generally more challenging and more likely to have a quality issue/flaw in the weld than other materials like steel and aluminum. If O2 gets in there, it makes the weld brittle. Ti has great strength, but it doesn't have the best stiffness, so in some applications it can also be somewhat flexy, as in power strokes and BB flex or other parts of the bike. That could also be "compliance", depending on your point of view. In practice, it's easier to make stiffer aluminum frames due to hydroforming and being able to manipulate tube thickness and shape more and steel is naturally stiffer. Ti is hard to machine, so you tend to not get as many complex shapes like CNCed chainstay yokes and dropouts, or "FS" Ti bikes tend to not have Ti rear ends and linkages due to the complexity of making those parts out of Ti, and again, it's not very optimal because on an FS bike you want a very stiff rear end, to combat the inherent flex you get just by having pivots and rear suspension. You do get the corrosion/oxidation resistance benefit with Ti. IMO, Ti was kind of made out to be a magical wonder-metal back in the 90s, as far as bicycles were concerned. It's not bad if done right...but I do think it's way way more expensive than any of the benefits can justify.


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

I have both Ti and steel and have been buying hardtail's for many years. #1 Not all steel nor all Ti frames are the same. It really is a matter of finding a frame that has a nice supple feel. One of the first Ti frames I bought was straight gauge tubing and very stiff, to stiff but those where also the days of 26" wheels with narrow i19mm rims with 2.1" tires and tubes. That definitely added to the overly stiff ride. My first 29er was a Niner Sir9 853 Reynolds steel frame. The wheels were still narrow with i24mm rims and 2.3' tubeless tires, it was better but still too stiff for the trails I ride. I eventually went ahead and got a custom Ti frame from Seven but honestly I think a custom steel from would have rode just as nice. As you can see my rimes are wide and my tires are big with CushCore and Rimpact inserts. That improves the feel 100%. So my long answer is; A good (not overbuilt) butted and tapered steel frame is just as nice or perhaps better than a Ti frame. My newer Esker Japhy steel frame rides 10x better than my Niner Sir9 and I honestly think it's also about the Geo and the shape of stays, plus the wheels.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Jayem said:


> Ti has great strength, but it doesn't have the best stiffness, so in some applications it can also be somewhat flexy, as in power strokes and BB flex or other parts of the bike. That could also be "compliance", depending on your point of view.


This is an important point for the OP. I weigh 190 lbs. My Ti frame rides magically but it definitely flexes, particularly in the BB and rear end. If I really lean on it in fast corners or am winching up a nasty climb on the dinner plate cog, I can feel things moving around a bit. If I rail a berm for example I can hear the rear rotor brushing the brake pads and feel the frame 'spring' out of the corner. When winching hard, the rear axle sometimes creaks as the rear triangle flexes. I have to make sure the axle is well greased and heavily tightened to keep it silent, and there is some light scoring on the axle from the flex. With my Ti road bike it can get a little whippy if I lean hard into it also. Again it all comes down to design, but in the RSD and Stanton you're looking at they probably have the flex dialed down or dialed out.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

A good or bad frame can be made out of anything. The fact that it's Ti just means that you hope the builder knows how to build a Ti frame. If they do, it will be awesome! If I ever have the opportunity to get exactly what I want in Ti, I will get it.

-F


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

I own a steel MC. Love it- I have been considering a Ti version. Then I go for a ride. I really like the bike as is tbh. I am a heavy rider so that plays into it as well. It is a beefy, overbuilt HT.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Since you are looking at Stanon frames, I think this video might be of some help to you.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

So I had to go and watch Hardtail Party's build up and frame review of the 2021 Sour Crumble. Really nice looking German steel frame.I just hope it doesn't ride as good as it looks or it may complicate things for me haha.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

eb1888 said:


> Skip both and get the aluminum v2 MC.
> Put the money in a Mezzer and Berd spoke wide rim carbon wheels.


Owning a steel MiddleChild, I drove an aluminum v1 MC, with a slightly better build. I had more fun on the aluminum, that said I love how steel looks and you can't go wrong. If you have the extra money to spend on Titainum... sure have yourself a splurge. But I don't think the difference is huge, that said I haven't ridden the titanium.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

I have a Titus Eleven xc frame if you want it. Disk brake ready. I bought it to replace my 1995 Cannondale hardtail since that old one is V-brake only, and I always lusted for ti back in the '90s. But it sucks. It's as rigid as the old aluminum, and a high top tube so hardly any seat post exposed which makes it feel harsher. 

I think there are very nice ti bikes out there, but not all of them. And, hydroformed aluminum with proper butting is quite good. I suspect as good or better than a lot of ti. I suspect the material isn't the end-all answer. It's gotta be mostly about shaping the tubes, and butting. So, for any material, after understanding it's nuances, you should be able to shape and butt tubes to make it perfect. And along those lines, they've gotten pretty good at aluminum now. Of course CF is good also if you're willing to have a little more delicate nature.

Side thought- Aluminum was becoming mainstream, and competition was building against competitors of good aluminum frames in the 90's. But then CF came around and stole aluminum's thunder. All the big-spenders put their money towards CF. I've been wondering- if CF was never invented and continued focus on aluminum, if we'd have totally awesome aluminum technology frames now. If we really focused design attention to aluminum with understanding of hydroforming, tube butting, and tube curvature, I bet aluminum could be a lot further than it currently is.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

The next step is really 3D printed frames, in whatever alloy they see fit (which have probably been done but not main-stream and not affordably I'm sure). Having seen what some of the auto industry is doing with it... I think it'd look very neat.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

drivera said:


> The next step is really 3D printed frames, in whatever alloy they see fit (which have probably been done but not main-stream and not affordably I'm sure). Having seen what some of the auto industry is doing with it... I think it'd look very neat.


Moots was 3D printing titanium frame dropouts as of 4 or 5 years ago.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I have a ton of miles on my 3 titanium frames and love to ride them, but I bought them used and got good deals. I doubt I'd pay full retail for a new one. 
I also love my Reynolds 853 bikeand have had numerous Tange Prestige and Ritchey Logic Prestige frames that I really liked. There are definitely many variables, but among the bikes I've got I don't have a huge preference for one of those materials over the other.
I get enough frame flex out of the Reynolds frame and out of the ti frames to rub the rear tire on the inside of the chainstays. I am only 170lbs geared up, but have bikepacked with both the steel frame and one of the ti frames and both were pretty whippy under an additional 60lbs of gear and water.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I bought my Lynskey frame and a carbon fork for < $1500 11 years ago. 

I'm well into 5 figures of mileage in that time and it's been setup in many different configurations. 

Definitely one of my favorite bikes ever.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

sgltrak said:


> I have a ton of miles on my 3 titanium frames and love to ride them, but I bought them used and got good deals. I doubt I'd pay full retail for a new one.
> I also love my Reynolds 853 bikeand have had numerous Tange Prestige and Ritchey Logic Prestige frames that I really liked. There are definitely many variables, but among the bikes I've got I don't have a huge preference for one of those materials over the other.
> I get enough frame flex out of the Reynolds frame and out of the ti frames to rub the rear tire on the inside of the chainstays. I am only 170lbs geared up, but have bikepacked with both the steel frame and one of the ti frames and both were pretty whippy under an additional 60lbs of gear and water.


Yeah, I have an old Merckx Reynolds 753 road bike. Apparently 753 is the earlier version if 853, but 753 was harder to make, needing silver brazing for cool welding or something. Anyway, assuming stiffness of 853 is similar to 753, I agree those steel frames rode very nice and seemed stiff enough. I'm around 200 lbs and never noticed the wheel touching a chain stay. I heard that, in the years my bike was made, Merckx added rifling to the lower seat tube (and maybe downtube, not sure) to help stiffen the BB, but he didn't add that to the 753 because it was already very stiff compared to normal bike-making steel. Not sure how that relates to the subject but there you go.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

When my Matt Chester ti frame arrives, you guys are gonna be SO jealous.
=sParty


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Reynolds 853 has a strength to weight ratio close to that of Ti 3Al-2.5V. As a result the tubing is drawn with thinner walls similar to what is done with Ti, so it also does Ti-ish things - rides phenomenally and can get flexy or whippy. I rode two road frames by the same builder, one in 853 and one in Ti, and from the saddle I really couldn't detect a meaningful difference except that the Ti felt a hair more springy and the 853 a hair more damped. They were much more similar than different.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

jiggerjake said:


> So I had to go and watch Hardtail Party's build up and frame review of the 2021 Sour Crumble. Really nice looking German steel frame.I just hope it doesn't ride as good as it looks or it may complicate things for me haha.


I dunno....that cable routing would piss me off with a quickness. It's just dumb on a couple of different levels.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Yeah the Cumbles cable routing is a con, especially when other bikes at that price are better routed.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

BadgerOne said:


> I dunno....that cable routing would piss me off with a quickness. It's just dumb on a couple of different levels.


Agreed. Whatever frame I decide on I won't be the one building it. I may have to bring along a case of beer to my LBS if I had them build that frame up.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

jiggerjake said:


> Agreed. Whatever frame I decide on I won't be the one building it. I may have to bring along a case of beer to my LBS if I had them build that frame up.


That’s my approach with my Druid, which is jam packed with all sorts of interesting eccentricities. I find that cold, local craft beers work wonders. Every single time. Make sure it’s cold, ready to go out of the box. My current go-to is this:


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Nice selection. Yes.Defiantly gotta go cold locally craft brewed on that visit.That's a whole thread for another time haha.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

jiggerjake said:


> Agreed. Whatever frame I decide on I won't be the one building it. I may have to bring along a case of beer to my LBS if I had them build that frame up.


Seriously? To me, there aren't many experiences as rewarding as building a new bike from the frame up.
I'll take all day (the bike shop guys can't waste that much time.)
I'm meticulous, fastidious.
Building a new frame up is the second most fun thing I do with bicycles.
=sParty


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Seriously? To me, there aren't many experiences as rewarding as building a new bike from the frame up.
> I'll take all day (the bike shop guys can't waste that much time.)
> I'm meticulous, fastidious.
> Building a new frame out is the second most fun thing I do with bicycles.
> ...


I may reach the day where I have time to wrench. And learn how to. For now, I try to maximize ride time with any spare time I have. Now, that said, I have to take 5 months of holidays in 2022. 5 months!!! Maybe me and @jiggerjake can work together on fine tuning our bike building skills in 2022 👊 He11, with that amount of time, maybe I can build his bike for him 😂 Always willing to accept the Trail Mix Packs in kind…


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

My 94 Kona hei hei has lived on trainer now 5 years after 15 years of riding and commuter duty. The constant rain of sweat causes aluminum and steel bolts to explode with corrosion and rust but frame is still going strong.

I think ultralight steel frames have the best ride but it’s super fragile.

if my Kona raijin 29er ever dies and I can’t find one used I’d order one custom built. Love it and won’t live without it.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

I'll say it depends. My purchases are usually after a lot of trials and consideration. I confess to have spent a lot on a ti frame but it's a gravel & sh_tty road bike where it also got me fit most production and nearly all composite frames don't have.

The "it depends" and being cognizant of diminishing returns as you spend was more obvious with MTB much more plush tires. I didn't sense what people call magic as much with 55 mm and bigger tires the way it was obvious with 40 mm or less tires.

This was also obvious. Most of the ti bikes I tried and checked out seemed to have an off the shelf or tubes more alike tube set. My Moots and other Moots quite obviously have tubes where you can see, measure and hear/ping to realize the diameter and wall thickness vary. My guess is the Moots is at once crazy solid and responsive and comfy from that. Similar bikes I tried were more like a soft 1970s steel bike that weight less.

Having once been in production and QC management where millwrights did amazing stuff I had early awareness of the build quality needed. Good looking parts were not always perfect parts. I confess that once I committed to getting the custom fit for my shrinking aging body and the big spend Moots experience made a difference.


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

Another thing to really keep in mind besides Ti or steel is the Geo, the intent of your build with the trails you ride. My trails are steep and I gravitated towards slack HTA frames with longer reach. My older Hardtail’s with 70HTA currently serve as more upright commuter bikes.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Sparticus said:


> Seriously? To me, there aren't many experiences as rewarding as building a new bike from the frame up.
> I'll take all day (the bike shop guys can't waste that much time.)
> I'm meticulous, fastidious.
> Building a new frame up is the second most fun thing I do with bicycles.
> =sParty


As nice as that sounds I don't have the tools or the time to take on a build.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

I bought a Carver Gnarvester frame and had my LBS build it up.
I sold two steel bikes ( Instigator and Krampus) I really loved to make this happen.
I am sooooo glad I did it. Ti is a frame material I have lusted after since the Merlin days.
The ride is magical. The smile on my face is unmatched by any of the other bikes.
I still lust after a 44bikes Ti Marauder, but until i can put together some $$$$, I will be happy with the Gnar.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Jump on it son, deals don't get better than this.

Sonder Signal Ti


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

jiggerjake said:


> Two of the bikes I'm currently looking at offer their frames in chromoly and Ti. I was initially set on a Ti frame but the more I think about it I keep asking myself is it worth paying 3x the cost on a frame. Aside from saving 2lbs. is there a huge benefit to a Ti frame. I tell myself I could put the $ into a higher end build but then I go right back to wanting that Ti frame.
> Can you help talk me out of it or why I should just go for it.
> I'm not a racer and there's not much in the way of climbing where that weight saving would matter.Something about that Ti frame though. Talk some sense into me please.
> 
> For reference the bikes are a Stanton Switch9er and a RSD MC.


lol no not worth it


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

FYI Stanton has 10% off sale going on this weekend on all models.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks I saw that.Im actually signed up for e mails from them.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

yes.


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## Super E (Nov 5, 2004)

Worth every penny for Ti if you really want one. I’ve no regrets for buying a Ti frame.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Super E said:


> Worth every penny for Ti if you really want one. I’ve no regrets for buying a Ti frame.


I saw you mention a Ti +bike on another thread. May I ask what you brought?


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## Super E (Nov 5, 2004)

jiggerjake said:


> I saw you mention a Ti +bike on another thread. May I ask what you brought?


CHUMBA Stella Ti. Fits 3.0 tires, can run single speed which are both basic requirements I wanted. The ride is amazingly perfect for me.


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

This guy makes about the best Ti frames out there, but it'll cost ya. (almost as good as vibranium)





Fat Chance Bikes | fatchance.bike







fatchance.bike





Or get a nice blue pig frame and start building. Full XTR/fox float...done! (this is my personal 2023 project)


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

jiggerjake said:


> Thanks I saw that.Im actually signed up for e mails from them.


Having just sold my chromoly MiddleChild, I can say they ride on the harsher side of the steel mtb spectrum. Not as bad as a bmx bike, but certainly not plush. I’m your weight and I was never worried about durability of the frame (or paint) and rust wasn’t an issue either. I replaced it with a steel Chromag and it feels similar to the RSD, burly and ready for war.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Sparticus said:


> Just before the turn of the century I wanted a ti frame in the worst way.
> I thought, "It won't rust, offers a supple ride, doesn't have to be painted (in fact ti looks best unpainted) -- it'll be the last frame I ever buy."
> 
> So glad I never bought one.
> ...


Yes you are stuck with the geometry but can change out most stuff. My current Ti bike is just for xc long distance fast Forrest Cruising. Hard to ever time out it’s usefulness.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

I finally got my first Ti frame (Radimus) last April built up slowly thru the summer due to shortages. The geo is fairly modern but not cutting edge which is fine with me. But coming from ROS9 which is probably at the burly edge of steel frames, the Ti ride is a thing even compared to other hardtails I've owned aluminum or steel. Haven't been riding my Riot much either.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

jiggerjake said:


> Two of the bikes I'm currently looking at offer their frames in chromoly and Ti. I was initially set on a Ti frame but the more I think about it I keep asking myself is it worth paying 3x the cost on a frame. Aside from saving 2lbs. is there a huge benefit to a Ti frame. I tell myself I could put the $ into a higher end build but then I go right back to wanting that Ti frame.
> Can you help talk me out of it or why I should just go for it.
> I'm not a racer and there's not much in the way of climbing where that weight saving would matter.Something about that Ti frame though. Talk some sense into me please.
> 
> For reference the bikes are a Stanton Switch9er and a RSD MC.


lmao u want like help line number?
1-800-dont-spend 😋 😂 😇


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Stewiewin said:


> lmao u want like help line number?
> 1-800-dont-spend 😋 😂 😇


In the end, it is just money. Spend it and then forget about the transaction and ride the hell out of whatever you buy. I had an Aunt that was a school teacher and at her death, had 7 million in the bank (In 1972). Still had a gas stove that had no pilot light, just a bunch of matches and holes in expensive rugs. She gave most of it to a Foreign Government. Moral of story…..if you got it, use it as a tool and buy what you want or need…..if you can afford it…..ride on…..


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

No matter the frame material unless you can test ride back to back with the same wheels/tires it'll be a gamble. One Ti frame to the next or one steel to another etc may ride completely different. One other thing different on the Radimus also bought a Nobl carbon t38 wheelset onyx classic but double butted, normally I build my own wheels straight 14 gauge. Might add some compliance. Though in the past had factory bikes almost always machine built straight 15gauge, stiff but spoke heads would start popping off after a year typically.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

socal_jack said:


> No matter the frame material unless you can test ride back to back with the same wheels/tires it'll be a gamble. One Ti frame to the next or one steel to another etc may ride completely different. One other thing different on the Radimus also bought a Nobl carbon t38 wheelset onyx classic but double butted, normally I build my own wheels straight 14 gauge. Might add some compliance. Though in the past had factory bikes almost always machine built straight 15gauge, stiff but spoke heads would start popping off after a year typically.


Yep. My Ti frame rides like velvet, but when I start giving it the onion it gets whippy in the rear. If I rail a hero dirt corner I can make the rear rotor rub, and I have to Bubba-tight the rear axle to eliminate creaking and prevent it from starting to back out on long rides. With the rear wheel out, I can squeeze or spread the dropouts a lot very easily with one hand. But that ride, bro... My Nimble 9, with its tiny little pinner steel tubing, didn't really flex at all. I've also ridden Ti frames that are very stiff, for example the Lynskey Pro 29 posted previously. All different and there is no free lunch.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

BadgerOne said:


> Yep. My Ti frame rides like velvet, but when I start giving it the onion it gets whippy in the rear. If I rail a hero dirt corner I can make the rear rotor rub, and I have to Bubba-tight the rear axle to eliminate creaking and prevent it from starting to back out on long rides. With the rear wheel out, I can squeeze or spread the dropouts a lot very easily with one hand. But that ride, bro... My Nimble 9, with its tiny little pinner steel tubing, didn't really flex at all. I've also ridden Ti frames that are very stiff, for example the Lynskey Pro 29 posted previously. All different and there is no free lunch.


I haven't had any rubbing but all of the slider hardware would loosen up no matter how tight that and axle were on rocky rides. Last weekend applied liberal amounts of permatex orange high-strength removable threadlocker to all slider hardware. Next step is lockwashers on slider bolts if that doesn't work.


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