# 1x11 adopters : anyone regret it?



## burbskate (May 23, 2012)

Looking for comments from existing 1x11 riders and if they regret making the change. And if so, why? 

I'm currently on a Trek Fuel ex8 that came stock with a 3x10. I never use my third chainring, and have figured out what ratios I use in my riding to make the jump to 1x. 

So yes, I'm already sold on the idea of 1x, but are there issues that came to light once you made the switch? Issues with a certain setup (Shimano/SRAM)? Wish you would have used different shifters/cassette? 

Thanks.


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## Coal-Cracker (May 4, 2010)

I went from 2x10 to 1x11 (Shimano XT/11-46).
After lots of online research, it seemed the issue most users reported was chaindrop when backpedaling in the lowest gear/cassette.
It seems the issue is primarily caused by chainline. Which is then made worse by crank/front ring choice, chainstay length, SRAM driver vs Shimano driver, etc.,...

I had read that running a SRAM chain seemed to help with chain drop during backpedaling. So when the time came to upgrade to 1x11, I ordered a SRAM chain and everything else was Shimano XT.

I can pedal backwards all day and no chain drop.

Now, I can't say with certainty that the reason Im not having backpedaling issues is the chain, as I have no other chains (Shimano, KMC) to compare it to. But it does correspond to what others have experienced.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm 1x11 and can't see going back to a front derailleur. And before a 1X debate begins... for me, this is a personal decision based on my terrain, style and preferences. I believe there situations where a 2x or a 3x might be better suited for a given individual. I also believe there are those that think they need multiple rings up front. It really doesn't matter. Ride what you like, but be open to trying something different.

I have been very happy with just one up front. I have three rings that I can swap out in 10 minutes depending on my changes in terrain and riding style of the day.


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## parisot (Sep 12, 2016)

I have a 11-46. Only issue I've had is the chain drop. Will be ordering a sram chain to see if that fixes it. I've already adjusted the chain line.

Also, going to a 1x allowed me to run an oval chainring, which I like.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Since going 1x11 (1 year), I have never had any problems with back pedal induced chain drop.


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## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

If you're looking for a no regret option first, just convert your existing set up to 1x10. Nobody says you need to go to 11 speed to go 1x


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Good advice.


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

I have converted two bikes to 1x11. One XT the other X01. No regrets. Both are outstanding but I do prefer the Shimano.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I converted from 2 x 10. I wouldn't say I have any regrets, but I would say that it really doesn't make much of a difference in my riding. My front derailleur was always well tuned, so it didn't really give me problems. I did drop some weight, so thats always a benefit.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

One 1x10 and one 1x11. No regrets whatsoever.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

I helped a friend get set up and tuned on a 1x11 SRAM GX build. Feels really nice to me; maybe a little better than Shimano 1x10. I didn't actually test it for backpedal issues, but might do that when I get home as it is currently in my garage. He hasn't mentioned anything.

For Texas, it is probably overkill on the range, but for trips to the mountains, it will all get used for sure.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Oh and as far as needing the range, whatever you need is fine. I'm a fat old man, and rode 1x6 11-34 in the mountains in Washington by adding a 26t granny up front and coasting on the downs. 1x11 would cover anything I would ever need, but if you want more range there is nothing wrong with that.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

I've never had a problem with 2x, or 3x for that matter, and with that said I have one 3x, one 2x, one 1x10, and one 1x11 bike. For a long day in the saddle with climbing, 2x all day long.
Guess if you need the room on the handlebars for a dropper/bell/GPS/suspension lockouts/MP3 player/and CPAP mask hookups it's the way to go.
And as far as weight goes, there are very few of us that are at our most lean so the weight savings is basically moot in my mind.
And get off my lawn!!!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I'm on my 3rd 1x setup. But I might as well have been running a 1x9 for a lot of years, too (was technically a 3x9, but never really used anything but the middle ring the vast majority of the time).

But my first purpose-built 1x was a 1x10 SRAM setup and I liked it. I went to 1x11 when cassette prices came down enough for something wider range than 11-42 (I picked 11-46 Sunrace). I'm pretty pleased with it. The 1x11 is now Shimano (XTR shifter, XT RD). Mostly because of availability reasons, honestly. I had my commuter bike set up as a 1x10 for awhile (Shimano SLX w/Gevenalle 1x10 shifters). I wanted more range out of it, so I went 2x10 on it (Shimano SLX/105 w/Gevenalle 2x10 shifters). For that bike, and what I do with it, 2x makes more sense for me.


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## Clayncedar (Aug 25, 2016)

RS VR6 said:


> One 1x10 and one 1x11. No regrets whatsoever.


Exact same here on two fatbikes. No issues.

Not missing the front derailleur.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Sram GX. Roughly six months and would never go back. Perfect setup IMO.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Why some, perhaps many folks think of 1x as a weight saving thing. For me, it was more of a simplicity sort of thing. It sort of just cleaned up the cockpit and coincidentally eliminated some moving parts.


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## Bos (Feb 13, 2013)

I personally disliked the front derailleur. Whenever I changed chain rings, I had to shift like crazy on the rear mech to find the right gear. And when did I ever need a 38 tooth chain ring on a mtn bike. And the 24 tooth ring 36 ring cog was so low I could bearly stay vertical on a climb. Anyway, went to 1x10 28 ring and 40 cog. Perfect for my terrain. Didnt spin out for very long on flat asphalt in 28/11 and 28/40 stilll provided a bailout gear. Only issue was sometimes slight hesitation on the 16 tooth cog. But that was only an issue on flat asphalt. For xmas, I gifted myself with m8000 shifter, mech and cassette. 30 tooth ring on the front and 11/42 in the rear. Just total precision, I can even reverse spin in the 42 tooth cog. Best setup ever on my 2013 Epic Comp. Now would I advise my sister to convert from 2x10 on her Epic Expert? Probably not.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^ flat asphalt? Where does flat asphalt come into the equation?


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## Bos (Feb 13, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^ flat asphalt? Where does flat asphalt come into the equation?


Just where I ride sometimes to get to the trail. About the only time I use the 16 tooth.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> Why some, perhaps many folks think of 1x as a weight saving thing. For me, it was more of a simplicity sort of thing. It sort of just cleaned up the cockpit and coincidentally eliminated some moving parts.


Same for me.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Converting my 3rd bike now. The previous two were 3x10 and 2x10 and I went to 1x10. The cheap fat bike is getting parts in a few days and will be 1x8 until something breaks and gives me the excuse to go to 1x10 or 11 if it's cheap enough in another year or two. No regrets, although I do miss the sit and spin of a true granny gear that 1x10 doesn't really offer, sometimes it's shift up a few gears and stand up and mash like it's a single speed. We don't have mountains here (CT) so I don't mind.


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## mechsc1 (Dec 28, 2013)

Lots of talk here : http://forums.mtbr.com/california-norcal/1x11-im-over-norcal-hills-981412.html


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

LaXCarp said:


> If you're looking for a no regret option first, just convert your existing set up to 1x10. Nobody says you need to go to 11 speed to go 1x


^^^ yep.

I had the same 3x10 setup on my Trek as the OP. Converted to 1x10 with minimal investment and loved the functional simplicity, cleaner cockpit and even the look. None of that would have mattered if the gear range didn't work for the local trails I ride...which it does.

There's what we think we know and what we know we know. If you do the simple 1x10 conversion then you can be sure before making a more expensive move, and you'll probably also learn some things that will influence your 1x11 purchase.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

burbskate said:


> Looking for comments from existing 1x11 riders and if they regret making the change. And if so, why?
> 
> I'm currently on a Trek Fuel ex8 that came stock with a 3x10. I never use my third chainring, and have figured out what ratios I use in my riding to make the jump to 1x.
> 
> ...


Switch to 1X10. No need to jump to 11 speed.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

parisot said:


> I have a 11-46. Only issue I've had is the chain drop. Will be ordering a sram chain to see if that fixes it. I've already adjusted the chain line.


I haven't had any issues with chain drop since converting to 1X but for those who have here's a simple & fairly cost-effective solution.
https://www.oneupcomponents.com/collections/chainguide/products/top-guide


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

When you ask for people who have adopted 1x11, from WHAT ? Singlespeed, 3x9, 2x10, 1x10?


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## Coal-Cracker (May 4, 2010)

OldGringo said:


> I haven't had any issues with chain drop since converting to 1X but for those who have here's a simple & fairly cost-effective solution.
> https://www.oneupcomponents.com/collections/chainguide/products/top-guide


I'm pretty sure he referring to the chaindrop that occurs when backpedaling in the lowest gear.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I picked up from the OP an adoption from a 2x or 3x to a 1x.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Hawg said:


> Switch to 1X10. No need to jump to 11 speed.


Unless 1x10 gearing doesn't work for your local terrain and/or riding style, if it does then I agree there's no reason to "upgrade" to 11 speed. I'm using 2 chainrings now but when I convert to 1x I'll definitely go 11 speed to get the range I want (without hacks).


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Coal-Cracker said:


> I'm pretty sure he referring to the chaindrop that occurs when backpedaling in the lowest gear.


Ahhh...got it. While we're on the subject, why backpedal...in any gear? Don't think I've ever done that.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

OldGringo said:


> While we're on the subject, why backpedal...in any gear? Don't think I've ever done that.


I do sometimes on tech sections but never more than ~1/4 turn. Also sometimes on "rest" sections I'll spin in reverse just for the hell of it and maybe to stretch my legs differently, never dropped a chain while doing it though.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

The backpedal chain drop usually happens in the largest cog. I don't think I've ever had the need to backpedal in my 42T.


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## burbskate (May 23, 2012)

LaXCarp said:


> If you're looking for a no regret option first, just convert your existing set up to 1x10. Nobody says you need to go to 11 speed to go 1x


The problem I run into with my riding is range. I really need a granny for one of the trails I ride a lot, but then I can get into some paved path stuff too. If I run my small chainring, I'll spin out too fast. But my middle is just a bit too big for a couple climbs for me.

I debated doing a cog extender from Wolftooth, and stay 10. But for the costs, it doesn't really seem like a savings now.

I figured out that 11-46 with a 32 chainring will get me the range I need.

I am also interested in the wolf tooth Oval ring. Which is pushing me toward 1x.

I will most likely be using shimano groupset, but from what I'm seeing here, will go with a sram chain.

You guys notice any decrease in chain/cassette life with 11?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

RS VR6 said:


> The backpedal chain drop usually happens in the largest cog. I don't think I've ever had the need to backpedal in my 42T.


Yeah, I probably ratchet my pedals more in lower gears than I do in taller ones. It's all about getting the perfect pedal position for a power stroke when going over something chunky. A boulder, a ledge, a really gnarly bit of roots, whatever. I don't want to bang my pedal right in the middle of the downstroke, so sometimes backpedaling (or ratcheting) the pedals is necessary. Being in a really low gear for that means that your pedal drops pretty quick when you put the power down, so if you don't position it just right and time the power stroke just right, it will hit. Maybe with the increased range of the 11-46, I'll spend less time in my biggest cog so I won't be doing as many of those maneuvers in it. But still, I don't want to be dropping my chain in the middle of a chunky section of trail unexpectedly on the off chance I need to ratchet my pedals in that gear. I am a bit of a perfectionist with the way my bike works.



J.B. Weld said:


> I do sometimes on tech sections but never more than ~1/4 turn. Also sometimes on "rest" sections I'll spin in reverse just for the hell of it and maybe to stretch my legs differently, never dropped a chain while doing it though.


I never had an issue with it when I was on a 1x10, but I did have it when I just set up the 1x11 on the 11-46 cassette (KMC chain). I noticed that there were only issues on certain teeth on the big cassette. I touched them up a bit with a file so the chain plates slid smoothly over those teeth, and no more problems.


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

Went from 3x10 to 2x10 and now 1x10. Both bikes are now 1x10 and when the gear wears out, they will get converted to 1x11


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm only on 1x10 as it's all Saint and I like the ergonomics of the shifter and the compactness of the rear mech. Once I've been through this cassette I'll look at 1x11 as I'm on 30t-11-36 on 26" wheels and would like a little bigger range.


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## Bos (Feb 13, 2013)

I'm using an XTR/Durace chain and I can back pedal no problems. I've had better luck with Shimano chains when using an XT 10 speed cassette X9 mech so stuck with them with the 1x11.


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## burbskate (May 23, 2012)

Bos said:


> I'm using an XTR/Durace chain and I can back pedal no problems. I've had better luck with Shimano chains when using an XT 10 speed cassette X9 mech so stuck with them with the 1x11.


What cassette are you using?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

SRAM 1x11 is much better thought out than Shimano 1x11. The XD driver prevents some of the backpedaling issues and especially gets rid of the cassette digging into high end aluminum freehubs. Even high end shimano cassettes do this, because the last 4 gears have no carrier, especially the 3rd and 4th, they'll dig into your freehub easy. Eventually, you end up having to replace the freehub because you can no longer get the cassette on/off. I'm reaching the limit currently with one of my hope hubs. Apart from that, the SRAM clutch works very well and you can't approach the light weight of the SRAM 1x cassettes either. IMO, it's a superior system, even though on 2 out of 3 bikes I just run a Shimano 1x10 system.

As far as gear range, it's a bit too much for me, but there are several options.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

Jayem said:


> SRAM 1x11 is much better thought out than Shimano 1x11. The XD driver prevents some of the backpedaling issues and especially gets rid of the cassette digging into high end aluminum freehubs. Even high end shimano cassettes do this, because the last 4 gears have no carrier, especially the 3rd and 4th, they'll dig into your freehub easy. Eventually, you end up having to replace the freehub because you can no longer get the cassette on/off. I'm reaching the limit currently with one of my hope hubs. Apart from that, the SRAM clutch works very well and you can't approach the light weight of the SRAM 1x cassettes either. IMO, it's a superior system, even though on 2 out of 3 bikes I just run a Shimano 1x10 system.
> 
> As far as gear range, it's a bit too much for me, but there are several options.


Interesting points. I went 1x10 Shimano/Sunrace and am glad considering the issues you mentioned with Shimano 1x11.

Also I went 1x10 after cross shifting my last casette to death. Much more intuitive shifting now. Another bonus is I converted my front shifter to a dropper post lever cleaning up my cockpit.

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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

I know for me personally, I swapped from 3x9 to 1x9 years ago. After about a year, I finally swapped to 1x10...not for the gearing, but for the Clutch Derailluer.

With a 32/12-36 I can climb anything. Can't remember a time where I needed an easier gear. I don't see myself going to 1x11.

I ride the SS 99% of the time so getting on the geared bike feels like cheating anyway.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

If 1x gives you the gearing you need/want, it's simpler, lighter and more reliable than 2x. If 1x doesn't, then accept the compromise that 2x offers, more complexity, weight and less reliability for more gears.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Lone Rager said:


> If 1x gives you the gearing you need/want, it's simpler, lighter and more reliable than 2x. If 1x doesn't, then accept the compromise that 2x offers, more complexity, weight and less reliability for more gears.


True. What most people fail to realize is that it's about gearing range, not gearing ratio. If you really need the range, then 2x. For many people, it's one of those things that you use so little to really justify, but then it's totally personal. As far as ratio, we can get stupid low ratios from 1x systems these days, and just a few years ago we used to run 22t granny rings with 32 or 34t cassettes, but even then I couldn't really use the easiest gear, it was simply too low, you needed a little higher to maintain any kind of cadence, and then in technical terrain you often needed a lot higher, to give you the spring ability up and over technical features. The ability to run 1x does not, repeat does not, depend on the terrain. It depends on the rider. Just because there are big hills around doesn't mean anything significant, it's all about the rider.

And yes, the clutch is a paradigm shift improvement. No more bouncing chain, raced DH many times, not to mention rode at the park many more times, with no chainguide at all, and no lost chains. Does a lot better job cutting through mud/muck without ghost-shifting around IME, just way way better.


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## leonmajor (Apr 23, 2013)

Nope


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

LaXCarp said:


> If you're looking for a no regret option first, just convert your existing set up to 1x10. Nobody says you need to go to 11 speed to go 1x





Hawg said:


> Switch to 1X10. No need to jump to 11 speed.


I think this cassette has got a skip in it.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> True. What most people fail to realize is that it's about gearing range, not gearing ratio. If you really need the range, then 2x. For many people, it's one of those things that you use so little to really justify, but then it's totally personal. As far as ratio, we can get stupid low ratios from 1x systems these days, and just a few years ago we used to run 22t granny rings with 32 or 34t cassettes, but even then I couldn't really use the easiest gear, it was simply too low, you needed a little higher to maintain any kind of cadence, and then in technical terrain you often needed a lot higher, to give you the spring ability up and over technical features. The ability to run 1x does not, repeat does not, depend on the terrain. It depends on the rider. Just because there are big hills around doesn't mean anything significant, it's all about the rider.


Eagle has the same range as most 2x setups so you no longer need 2 rings to get a wide gearing range, only a fat wallet. Also most people aren't using lower gears than they did "back in the day" because 22/32 on 26" wheels is the same gear as 32/50 on 29's.

I believe the ability to run 1x can depend on the rider _*and*_ the terrain. 1x10 doesn't work for me here (tried it) but would likely be fine if I were living in the plains. Same rider, different gearing range due to terrain.


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## corwin1968 (Oct 8, 2011)

I went from a 3 x 9 to a 1 x 9 and I'll never have more than one chainring again. I'll invest in a Rohloff before I go back to multiple chainrings.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I'll just add that functionally, 2 or even 3 rings can work well. Mentally, 1X is much simpler and less error prone. Basically, you never find yourself realizing you should have switched rings with 1x. 

One compromise that 1x presents beyond total range is gear spacing. On the road, I sometimes find myself in a situation where one gear is a bit too high and the next a bit too low to be optimum. This is only a problem where the situation (grade, paceline speed, etc.) persists for a significant period of time. In mtbing, the occasions that anything persists for a significant period of time is vanishingly small.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Not mentioned....

I was a 2x holdout, but ran a 1x for quite sometime, then went back to a 2x. Even built it up with a nice new Shimano XTR FD and Trail crankset. Shifted great but something was not right... 

...The trails I ride, with a 30t up front is perfect. Puts me in the middle of the cassette most of the time. When I ran the 2x the 34t was too tall and I was too often running only the few top rings of the cassette.



Also, the front shifter spot is now occupied by my dropper lever.


Going from a 3x or 2x to a 1x was tough at first. My left thumb was always poking for the quick drop to the granny for punchy climbs. I think I'm past that now.

What I find the best of both worlds is a 1x drive train with a 2x crank. I run a n/w 30t ring, but manually drop to a granny when I'm hitting a super long steep climb. Best of both worlds with virtually no downside.

Recently I went from a Shimano cassette with a max 40t, to the SRAM with a 42t and its very nice and meets 99% of my needs. At some point I'll likely go to the Eagle.

Good thread with some good points.


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

Ran 2x10 for a year and hated the front derailleur so made the decision to drop it - BEST thing I ever did; I dropped 3/4 lb. from my bike and eliminated both bad shifting and the "moment of indecision" (which front chainring?) that many people run into when approaching a hill........I ran my setup flawless for about 2+ years now and have just moved to 1x11 (the wife's new bike inherited my 1x10 setup) which was a bit finicky at first but now rides smooth.......I will NEVER go back to a front derailleur setup again....as a side note, my training partner usually watches the equipment changes I make on my bike before he makes any changes, and he made the change to 1x10 a year ago and loves it, too..........


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I remember the 8 and 9 speed days, when people swore up and down that they *needed* the 44t ring on their triple, because they just rode so fast and everyone doing 2x was just fat and slow. :lol:

I tried 1x11 on a demo bike. It was neat I guess. Had the range I needed compared to my 2x9. If I was building a bike today, it would be 1x. Im not rushing out to spend any money to get less range than what I have now though. I am a pretty slow rider, 30x11 is more than I need. Im not pedaling downhill anyway. Remembering the old triple crank fuss, its interesting to see just how many other people dont actually need those gears either.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> Eagle has the same range as most 2x setups so you no longer need 2 rings to get a wide gearing range, only a fat wallet. Also most people aren't using lower gears than they did "back in the day" because 22/32 on 26" wheels is the same gear as 32/50 on 29's.
> 
> I believe the ability to run 1x can depend on the rider _*and*_ the terrain. 1x10 doesn't work for me here (tried it) but would likely be fine if I were living in the plains. Same rider, different gearing range due to terrain.


We were talking about 1x11, not 1x12.

I would submit that people ARE using lower gears than back in the day, they are trying to go to 28x46t combos and the such, lots of people do it. I'm not sure it's all that beneficial, but people think they need it. Otherwise, the range on that 1x12 system is large, but you end up with a heavier system to get it, again, it's a trade-off.

It's not the terrain, it's the rider. For every person that says "it's too hilly around here to ride 1x10", there's at least one riding 1x10 with no problems.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> We were talking about 1x11, not 1x12.


You got me there but even 1x11 is pretty close to 2x10 range. I'm still not understanding your perceived gearing differences because 28/46 is the same as 22/32 on 26" wheels which as you mentioned was common not so long ago.

And it is the terrain for me. Of course I could use 1x10, or even 1x1 in my area, I'd have to live with a lower top end though and since I have a choice I choose not to.


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## phreeky (Sep 25, 2015)

I run a 1x10 and I find it's perfectly fine, and I do that with a 26t up front. Clearly that's no good for anyone who needs to pedal downhill at speed (on a flat I top out at 40km/h at a very high cadence). So really you need to look at your own personally situation.

Another thing to consider is your bikes suspension geometry (for FS bikes). I have a bike with a very high level of anti-squat, and my single chainring is small, so that's not compromised at all. Some bikes have been designed around a 2x setup where the level of anti-squat is much higher with smaller chainrings with naturally works well with climbing, and switching to the big ring for descending decreases the anti-squat and therefore also decreases the pedal kickback. Bikes with low levels of anti-squat that rely more on trail mode on the rear shock are less impacted by such changes.


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

A couple of days ago I installed an SLX derailleur, SLX shifter, XT 11-46 cassette, Race Face Narrow Wide 32 teeth chainring, and a Wipperman chain on my Kona Honzo. The Honzo has been set up as single speed since I got it several years ago. The gear range is almost exactly the same as the 2x set up I used to run on my FS bikes (3x9 with the big ring replaced by a chain guard). All my other bikes were (and are) running 9 speed SRAM X9 so this was the first time I ever experienced a clutched derailleur or the latest Shimano stuff in general. I have no experience with XX or XO SRAM stuff. 

So, here are my impressions: the derailleur was super easy to set up and the clutch worked really well. I really liked the SLX shifter and the ability to upshift with my finger or my thumb. Everything was super smooth and worked wonderfully. The gearing range was everything I could ever ask for. But I am taking it off anyway and converting back to single speed. I will probably transfer the parts to my commuter Surly Troll although I hesitate because I will lose a little top end gear range if I do that. 

Why? Because the gears encouraged me to sit down too much and made me ride slower up hills (I prefer riding down hills, so getting the up hill part over with faster is a good thing). Sitting so much made my knees ache* and will cause saddle sores on longer rides. Thinking about shifting added unwanted mental noise to my ride. The extra parts look awful on my Honzo. And finally, I missed all the comments about how hardcore I was riding a single speed. (It's not really that hard - just try one and you'll see).

But hey, single speeds that weigh over 30lbs aren't for everyone. Unless I could afford a Lenz, I'd probably run this set up on a full suspension bike if I currently had one.



*Believe it or not, pedaling while standing is much easier on the knees even if you are mashing a much harder gear.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Thor29 said:


> A couple of days ago I installed an SLX derailleur, SLX shifter, XT 11-46 cassette, Race Face Narrow Wide 32 teeth chainring, and a Wipperman chain on my Kona Honzo. The Honzo has been set up as single speed since I got it several years ago. The gear range is almost exactly the same as the 2x set up I used to run on my FS bikes (3x9 with the big ring replaced by a chain guard). All my other bikes were (and are) running 9 speed SRAM X9 so this was the first time I ever experienced a clutched derailleur or the latest Shimano stuff in general. I have no experience with XX or XO SRAM stuff.
> 
> So, here are my impressions: the derailleur was super easy to set up and the clutch worked really well. I really liked the SLX shifter and the ability to upshift with my finger or my thumb. Everything was super smooth and worked wonderfully. The gearing range was everything I could ever ask for. But I am taking it off anyway and converting back to single speed. I will probably transfer the parts to my commuter Surly Troll although I hesitate because I will lose a little top end gear range if I do that.
> 
> ...


When I don't want to sit and climb, I shift to a higher gear and stand.


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## Bos (Feb 13, 2013)

burbskate said:


> What cassette are you using?


M8000 11-42 currently. When It was 1x10, 11-40 Sunrace and XT with Wolftooth 40 cog.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Bos said:


> M8000 11-42 currently. When It was 1x10, 11-40 Sunrace and XT with Wolftooth 40 cog.


You animal!


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Range was always the 'question' with this topic. With the new OneUp 50T shark cog, and 1x12 that's kind of going away, but it just never seemed to be a thing to me.
I get it, 1x is not for everyone but I'm always curious when I read the "I need a big ring for my stretch on the road". 
My response is 'But, Why?"

For me, when I had a 1x10, I used a 30 or 32 ring up front and an 11-42 Wolftooth rear. Of course there were occasions where I was pedaling at high cadence in 32x11, pretty much spun out,but so what? Unless you're racing, is it really that big of a deal to max out at 15mph instead of 17 mph? I always used it as a reminder that this was a good time to back it off a notch, grab a drink and get my head right for the next climb/downhill/tech section.

To me, it's like building a rock-crawler jeep and then b!tching that it doesn't go 80 on the freeway. You didn't build it for that.

There's no shame in 2 rings if you need it, but riding 1x11 and saying it sucks because it's _*adequate but not ideal*_ for the 5% of all the time you spend pedaling is silly.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

I converted mine to 1x10. 30T w/ praxis 11-40. No regrets at all.... even after taking more than 12 months off the bike for a back injury.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

d365 said:


> I converted mine to 1x10. 30T w/ praxis 11-40. No regrets at all.... even after taking more than 12 months off the bike for a back injury.


Good to hear you're back after injuring your back. I have a weak back also. I hurt it about a week back.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Thor29 said:


> the gears encouraged me to sit down too much and made me ride slower up hills (I prefer riding down hills, so getting the up hill part over with faster is a good thing). Sitting so much made my knees ache* and will cause saddle sores on longer rides. Thinking about shifting added unwanted mental noise to my ride. The extra parts look awful on my Honzo. And finally, I missed all the comments about how hardcore I was riding a single speed. (It's not really that hard - just try one and you'll see).
> 
> *Believe it or not, pedaling while standing is much easier on the knees even if you are mashing a much harder gear.


The opposite is true for me. Standing on the pedals and mashing really puts the hurt on my knees. I think its the bottom of the stroke that does it to me.

No singlespeed for me, no way. That would do in my knees for sure.

Perhaps your seat is too low.

Gears good. More gears better. still rockin 3×10


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

ARandomBiker said:


> Range was always the 'question' with this topic. With the new OneUp 50T shark cog, and 1x12 that's kind of going away, but it just never seemed to be a thing to me.
> I get it, 1x is not for everyone but I'm always curious when I read the "I need a big ring for my stretch on the road".
> My response is 'But, Why?"
> 
> ...


High end speed matters to me. Spinning out sucks. Being a road biker also, slower max speeds due to spinning out along pave road sections between the trails feels like failure. I guess I am just the exception to the rule.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Thor29 said:


> Sitting so much made my knees ache* and will cause saddle sores on longer rides.


For a brief while on a new bike, I experienced the knee issue like you've described. I was advised by a fitter to look at moving my seat farther aft (back) to reduce the load on my knees. Over a series of rides, adjusted the seat aft several times and ended up about 12 mm farther back and the knee issues disappeared.

Your mileage may vary.


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

I ordered my new Cascade Peak with the Shimano 1x11 but also with the one up 50 tooth low gear. I'm an old guy and the 30 T on the front and the 50 T on the back give me the same low gear as the fatbike (2x10) and the old FSR XC (3x9) at 17 gear inches.

So far, I'm sold on the 1 x. Shifting is simpler and the range seems to be more than adequate. I've not ridden anywhere yet with this bike where I'm testing the high gear but I only have used the highest gears in a few places, mostly pave roads, and a few rails-to-trails with long gradual grades. The chain has trouble with backpedals only on the big sprokets and only when I've not lubed it.

At this point, I wouldn't go back to 2x or 3x.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Lone Rager said:


> I'll just add that functionally, 2 or even 3 rings can work well. *Mentally, 1X is much simpler and less error prone.* Basically, you never find yourself realizing you should have switched rings with 1x.


That's true but in my case I 'feel' like I'm cross-chaining the crap out of it on either end. I know it's just a mental thing, probably because I'm fairly new to 1x.
Is it safe to 'ass'ume the chain wears a little quicker?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Depending on the terrain that I'm riding, I try and estimate what front chain ring size will keep my chain somewhere near the middle of the cassette for the majority of that ride. I have a 30, 32 and 34 T front rings that accommodate my every need for a SRAM GX XG-1150 10-42 cassette.


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

I have multiple 1x and 2x setups.

People can talk range all day - That isn't my issue with a 1x. 
The gap between ratio is the problem. The wider the range, the bigger the jump between gears. When you ride for 4+ hours, this is a big issue. One gear is too easy, so you shift up and it is just too hard for sustained climbs. The 2x has a better chance of hitting the right ratio. Depending on where you live, this may or may not be a deal breaker.

As for chain drops - I have only experienced it one time while riding, I was not in the 42T. It just bounced off and I have a clutch derailleur. It was just an odd thing that has never happened since. I have noticed if we come to a stop on a climb for some reason, I can't backpedal to a good crank position to get started again, so I just lift the rear and spin it forward. Small back pedals have not been an issue.

For people who can't figure out when you shift the front how much to shift the rear... I struggle to take your advice with confidence. You do know it takes literally seconds in your front yard to figure it out.


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## ViperDom (Sep 28, 2016)

Only situation i could see someone regretting going from 2x to 1x is if their FS frame was designed specifically for a 2x. For example some single-pivot frames have their pivot point located in-line with the small chainring. This gives you 100% antisquat where you need it. If you throw away that setup and run a single bigger chainring then you will always be at less than 100%AS since the pivot point is now below the chainline.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

bloaker said:


> ...The gap between ratio is the problem. The wider the range, the bigger the jump between gears. ... 2x has a better chance of hitting the right ratio. Depending on where you live, this may or may not be a deal breaker.
> 
> ...For people who can't figure out when you shift the front how much to shift the rear... I struggle to take your advice with confidence. You do know it takes literally seconds in your front yard to figure it out.


Personally, I've been shifting front derailleurs since 1969, doubles and later triples. I still do it on road bikes. This reason I do it on road bikes is the gap reason you bring up and that I brought up in post 50. In the mtb riding I do with 1x, there is very rarely a situation where I don't have an optimal gear that last for any length of time, so I have not found gaps to be an issue. Also, in the mtbing I do, I'm shifting a lot more frequently and over more gears, so it's way easier using 1x, regardless of the experience and expertise I have using 2x and 3x. So, for my riding, I could be using 2x (I still have and old 3x mtb) but find no benefit in it, only downsides.


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## ViperDom (Sep 28, 2016)

Hawg said:


> High end speed matters to me. Spinning out sucks. Being a road biker also, slower max speeds due to spinning out along pave road sections between the trails feels like failure. I guess I am just the exception to the rule.


+1 
I feel better being able to keep pedaling on some downhill trails and the occasional paved road that i'm bombing down to get to another trail area. 
My hardtail has a 34t 1x10 (11-36) which is a nice gear spread for my area.
I recently setup a 36t 1x11 (11-42) on my Scalpel SI. 
The 1x11 gives me alittle more in both directions and i'm lovin it.


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

This does come down to "where you live" - I have a couple climbs that are in then 20+ minute range and the grade changes gradually with no relief until the top. This is where I grab the 2x. My more downhill oriented bikes are 1x. 

*Sadly for me, every rides ends with a 7-9% climb to my house that is paved. Whether I am on my road bike or an MTB - any loss of momentum at the end of the ride can make this climb mentally brutal. The close ratio allows me to roll up it with minimal momentum loss and is a reminder every ride for me how big the gaps are.


I am sold that 1x is good enough. I am just not sold there are no drawbacks.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

bloaker said:


> People can talk range all day - That isn't my issue with a 1x.
> The gap between ratio is the problem. The wider the range, the bigger the jump between gears. When you ride for 4+ hours, this is a big issue. One gear is too easy, so you shift up and it is just too hard for sustained climbs. The 2x has a better chance of hitting the right ratio. Depending on where you live, this may or may not be a deal breaker.
> r... I struggle to take your advice with confidence. You do know it takes literally seconds in your front yard to figure it out.


I agree, tighter spacing can definitely be beneficial depending on terrain and/or riding style. Particularly when you're riding close to the limit too big of a jump can be a deal breaker. As usual the gearing "argument" always comes down to personal preference.



bloaker said:


> I am sold that 1x is good enough. I am just not sold there are no drawbacks.


Yep, I totally acknowledge the benefits of 1x drivetrains but 2x will always have 2 (potential) advantages IMO, tighter spacing and better chainline.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> I agree, tighter spacing can definitely be beneficial depending on terrain and/or riding style. Particularly when you're riding close to the limit too big of a jump can be a deal breaker.


I must be numb because before switching to to 1X, while still rolling in 2X, the jump down from 32 to 36 on the cassette in a steep climbing situation always felt very minimal. Almost like it wasn't enough of a bailout gear. Same goes with the jump from 36 down to the 40 tooth on my 1X cassette set up. I occasionally mis-shift (too many gear changes at once) and I can feel it then but never from one gear to the next. I think that knowing when to shift and what to expect (knowing your drive train well) certainly plays into the figure, though.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Hawg said:


> High end speed matters to me. Spinning out sucks. Being a road biker also, slower max speeds due to spinning out along pave road sections between the trails feels like failure. I guess I am just the exception to the rule.


There's nothing wrong with that. You know what you want from a drivetrain and build it accordingly with 2 rings up front. That consequence is lessening with each new 'evolution in 1x. I'd wager a 38 or 40 up front and a 11-50 12sp cassette will satisfy all but the hardest core dirt roadies, and still have a climbing gear. 38x50 is the same 22.0 gear inches as a 32x42, which I've ridden and is a really nice climbing gear. A 38x11 is pretty damned decent to push on a fire road with knobs.
No one is debating that 1x requires compromise. Most just don't mind spinning a 30x11 to gain the benefits of not messing with a front derailleur.

But of course, I'm just making conversation. I haven't thumbed a shifter on a bike in over a year. When 34x20 is the only thing you have, it's all spinning.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

ARandomBiker said:


> But of course, I'm just making conversation. I haven't thumbed a shifter on a bike in over a year. When 34x20 is the only thing you have, it's all spinning.


Ohhh. Ah-haaa. I see now... Superman status, you have. Toying with us multi-geared weaklings... :lol:


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## phreeky (Sep 25, 2015)

Yeah massive respect to the SSers, I couldn't do it. Getting beaten by one in a hilly XC race is a bit sad, but then I'm hardly the only one that has happened to - some of them are absolute machines!

I think it's fair to say that there's no right and wrong with drivetrails, just different. Every so often I look at my 1x10, which works fine for me, and think "I could upgrade that and move the 1x10 over to the hardtail" (the hardtail currently has 9sp gearing), and then I realise that the 1x10 is working perfectly (and is lighter than most 1x11 setups) and I should spend the money elsewhere and something else gets upgraded instead. Perhaps, eventually, I'll run out of other things to upgrade and end up with 1x11 or 1x12.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Hawg said:


> Ohhh. Ah-haaa. I see now... Superman status, you have. Toying with us multi-geared weaklings... :lol:


Not at all. I'm no hard ass. Call it an angst-y 30's crisis. I did it because all my friends do it and I didn't want to be left out. Turns out I rarely ride anything steep enough to need gears, and it helps me self-limit and not ride the steep crap that gets me hurt. 
Not doing any super-chunk Enduro 5k vertical elevation downhills or big drops on a 100mm (or rigid) hardtail with one gear.
I was only pointing out that spinning at 100+ rpm and only going 13mph doesn't really bother me, so my perception is skewed.


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## burbskate (May 23, 2012)

bloaker said:


> I have multiple 1x and 2x setups.
> 
> People can talk range all day - That isn't my issue with a 1x.
> The gap between ratio is the problem. The wider the range, the bigger the jump between gears. When you ride for 4+ hours, this is a big issue. One gear is too easy, so you shift up and it is just too hard for sustained climbs. The 2x has a better chance of hitting the right ratio. Depending on where you live, this may or may not be a deal


I was thinking about this same thing. As the jump from 37 to 46 seem big. But I guess if I only am using as a bail out gear, then the spread for all the rest is the same.

Great info here! Loving all the insight.

I find that standing makes me tighten my core and arms more, which wears me out faster in climbs. So sit and spin tends to be my method.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

This is one of those questions that we can't answer for you. You just have to try it. 

I'm in the group recommending to switch your current bike and give it a shot. If your current bike doesn't have a clutch derailleur you can buy an mrp chainguide. Buy some decent single ring chainring bolts and build it 1x. If you like it, great. If not, you've lost some time and roughly 30 bucks. It's a small invest compared to a 1x11 groupset. 

What works for me may not work for you. Our terrain and fitness differ.

For example:
I'm an early adopter and I went 1x9. I still even have that bike and for me, it works. For most people, it would not work. 32x34 isn't too low of a gear. 

I ride a 32/20 or 32/18 on my SS most of the time so the 1x9 is a walk in the park.


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

Hawg said:


> I must be numb because before switching to to 1X, while still rolling in 2X, the jump down from 32 to 36 on the cassette in a steep climbing situation always felt very minimal. Almost like it wasn't enough of a bailout gear. Same goes with the jump from 36 down to the 40 tooth on my 1X cassette set up. I occasionally mis-shift (too many gear changes at once) and I can feel it then but never from one gear to the next. I think that knowing when to shift and what to expect (knowing your drive train well) certainly plays into the figure, though.


We aren't discussing mis-shifts. We are talking about ratios. I can drive a 5 speed manual using just 1nd, 3rd, and 5th. I can do it. It is less gears and the same low end and top end... but the jumps are pretty big. Give me a close ration 6 speed and I can keep the car in the power range constantly.

Again... it can be done and in many situations off road, it doesn't matter about the gaps. BUT there are some that do. The question was fishing for the downfalls IMO. There are some indeed. Again, not enough to dismiss a 1x- but you are giving something up.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

I rode 1x for a couple seasons before it was cool, and i've ridden a bunch of modern 1x bikes, but i'm 2x.


Both my bikes run 9sp 32-24 with 11-34 cassettes. 32-34 will get me up any climb i'll encounter on a descent. Just smash. My hardtail has an XT clutch derailleur (no suspension to kill the clutch), my FS bike has a 2x chainguide. Both solutions give me no chain drops and a quiet drivetrain- moreso than NW+clutch for various reasons. A whole new XT chain/chainrings/cassette costs 100$, and my older shifters/derailleurs are cheap if i break one.

-I like the tight ratios- i ride multiple consecutive days regularly and a big jump between cogs sometimes requires more torque than i have left.
-I ride year round and gloppy conditions seem to lead to poor shifting and noise on 1x NW systems
-My FS bike has low antisquat and it's nice how trundling along in the granny firms up the suspension

That's really it; all XO/XT drivetrains last a long time and shift awesome, so this is the cheap way to do it and i get range and ratios that suit my needs. Beyond that i just don't give a ****. All the good stuff is good. I totally get why 1x is taking over; it's awesome for almost everyone.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I have ridden demo bikes with 1x and have had a 1x crank sitting on my workbench for months, but can't convince myself to convert any of my bikes. In 2016 my mountain bikes saw over 1200 pavement miles riding to and from the trails. A 1x would have made those miles miserably slow and exhausting with a high cadence spin. I have also found I was frustrated with being undergeared in some endurance races with long open courses. 

The benefits to 1x that are extolled by many riders and all of the industry marketing folks are not advantageous enough for me to convert. While I seek simplicity in most things bike related, the setup and use of a front derailleur and the presence of the left shifter doesn't bother me. I could skip dessert once a week and drop more weight than the conversion would save on my bikes. 

Every individual and situation is unique. 1x is not the solution for mine.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I have converted all three of my primary bikes to SRAM 1x11, even though two of them were already 1x10 with the same range. The reduced shift effort, and increase shift precision is what really sold me. A simple GX derailleur and cassette coupled to an x01 shifter is a buttery smooth, yet cost effective setup. I dont know how any of my friends or family still rides 1x10 setups anymore.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

1x works for me for several reasons. Gear ratio gap is a non issue as I never ride to the trail head or on much level ground. I have never had chain line issues with my 1x setup including smooth back pedaling. I modded my front shifter to a dropper lever for great ergo and simplicity. I had bad habits of cross shifting and shifting under power with 3x and 2x that are no longer issues for me. Everyone has different needs so I understand those that prefer 2x to suit their needs.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## zooey (Oct 31, 2016)

I switched to 1x to avoid chain drop issues.

I ended up trading for chain misalignment issues at the upper RD pulley. On certain kinds of bumps, the chain would pop off the upper guide pulley and mesh with the narrow wide teeth incorrectly, making an annoying noise. I've gotten good at fixing it in ~10 seconds, but it's a buzzkill to have to stop, get off the bike, and fix it, especially on group rides. Switched to a Shimano 11 speed RD and shifter to fix it, since I CBA to file/grind off the wide pulley teeth.

Chain drop issues haven't been totally eliminated, but I suspect that some setups have less chain retention than others. A full SRAM setup on a FSR bike has had no drops, while a RaceFace NW ring, '13 era VPP with XTR clutched 10 spd RD has can drop chains multiple times on the same ride.

To top it off, the bike looks a bit sharper without the extra gears and shifter up front too. I'm sure there's more technical reasons, like the suspension designers able to make pedaling response somehow better with only 1 gear, but I can't generalize about that.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

OldGringo said:


> Ahhh...got it. While we're on the subject, why backpedal...in any gear? Don't think I've ever done that.


 Ever ratchet to get through a rock garden? Small 1/4 pedal stuff.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

OldGringo said:


> Ahhh...got it. While we're on the subject, why backpedal...in any gear? Don't think I've ever done that.





leeboh said:


> Ever ratchet to get through a rock garden? Small 1/4 pedal stuff.


Ride enough technical stuff and you're gonna backpedal.


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## Haljordan44 (Jan 4, 2017)

I have converted all my bikes to either 1X10 or 1X11 set-up. Never been happier. Some comments though:

1. No issue if you will use only on trails. But on fast road trips (especially if you ride with roadies on long rides), even a 36T cranks seems inadequate. Changing to a 38T will be a problem on the other end- climbs. Some resolve this by changing chain wheels depending on different riding conditions. It may be some work but I think its still better than having the FD- as long as its not that too often. Just better off having a "road-geared" bike for road use.
2. It would also help if you have a better designed "narrow wide" chain wheel to help prevent chain drop. (Though I have'nt tried the SRAM chain solution mentioned on some post, which I will also try ASAP). Some chain rings are poor in this area like those with lower tooth profiles- mostly on oval chain rings. Didnt have probem with Wolftooth but had several chain drops on Doval.
3. Avoid the 1X10 conversion that replaces the biggest cog to 40+T. The jump from 13-16 is not natural (even the replacement cog doesn't feel smooth).


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## phreeky (Sep 25, 2015)

Haljordan44 said:


> I1. No issue if you will use only on trails. But on fast road trips (especially if you ride with roadies on long rides), even a 36T cranks seems inadequate.


Holy hell, how fast do you ride your MTB on the road? I generally sit at < 30km/h on my way to the trails and TBH I'm not sure I could hold faster than that for long even with the right gearing - a Magic Mary and a Minion isn't the most efficient rubber on the road.

Here's a left field solution - I run a 2x crankset with a 26t on the 64bcd position and a bashguard in the 104bcd position. If looking for some range to get to/from the trails, you can swap the bashguard for another narrow/wide (i.e. 36t) and just manually switch the chain over by hand at the trailhead. That way you still lose the derailluear/shifter but retain some flexibility. A lot of the time you can swap the big ring between a chainring and bashguard without removing the crankset too.



> 2. It would also help if you have a better designed "narrow wide" chain wheel to help prevent chain drop.


I'm running an AbsoluteBlack and I've never dropped a chain. I love the narrow/wide chainrings for this, it's flawless, even when I've accidentally left the derailluear clutch off. I'm not sure how much impact it has, however I keep my drivetrain extremely clean which may help.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> Ride enough technical stuff and you're gonna backpedal.


On the contrary, the more technical stuff i ride the less i backpedal. I'm fairly confident the backpedalers and POE obsessed are weekend warriors with good technical ability and poor fitness. ...Or gear dorks with neither fitness nor skill.


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## phreeky (Sep 25, 2015)

scottzg said:


> On the contrary, the more technical stuff i ride the less i backpedal. I'm fairly confident the backpedalers and POE obsessed are weekend warriors with good technical ability and poor fitness. ...Or gear dorks with neither fitness nor skill.


Ouch. I think I'd be considered a 'weekend warrior' as would most of us here. I'm quite fit and think I'm a decent climber, and although I don't ratchet much there is the occassional rockgarden that can be trouble on a low BB bike. If I know the trail then I can carry momentum, however if it's a blind one (i.e. new trail, rock garden at exit of switchback climb) well then it's a sensible option.

That being said I'm 1x10, I can backpedal without an issue if required. Even still, do any 1x drivetrains really struggle with a slight backpedal? It's not like you'd ever spin it more than 1/4 rotation generally, they should cope with that.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

I switched to 1x11 then 1x12 from a Rohloff. The shifting speed of the Rohloff cannot be matched by any derailleur system, period. The simple maintenance of the Rohloff is far superior as well not to mention life of chain and chain-rings. From that perspective it was definitely a step back. For me the huge benefit was weight saving and once the Eagle arrived I had better low range options. I still did not have the full range of the 14 speed Rohloff but I had slightly better low range which was more important to me.

I have not tried the Shimano but the SRAM is definitely the best derailleur based drive-train I've pedaled. Setup correctly and keeping it clean; I have no chain drop, reverse pedal or shifting issues. Very snappy shifting as well except for the 50T.

I lost the high range of my old setups but the tradeoffs are fine and I don't need to be going 40mph+ these days..


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

I went from 3x9 to 1x11 and theres no way in hell Im going back to a front derailleur. Started out with a 32t chainring which was fine then upgraded the cranks which came with a 30t chainring and that was even better. I was worried I would lose too much downhill speed with a 30t but its been fast enough thanks to the SRAM cassette having a 10t ring. Never dropped a chain (SRAM drivetrain), I can shift to any gear under heavy load compared to a FD which was pretty much 50/50 if it would shift to granny under load, and the chain is completely silent even while bashing through rock gardens. If the next bike I get has Eagle I will probably put a 34t ring on it which should provide more than enough downhill speed.

I really hate front derailleurs, if I ever get a cyclocross I'll be getting rid of the FD. I honestly have no idea what Shimano is doing by pushing front derailleurs so hard.

(I have no chain drop when back pedaling on a boost bike with 3mm offset chainring)


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I really like the 1x11 for several reasons:
a. The drive train looks cleaner
b. I can climb up steep hills better
c. shifting is much faster and I don't have to worry about front shifter. 
d. The XTR 11 speed cassette is smooth as butter.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> Ride enough technical stuff and you're gonna backpedal.





scottzg said:


> On the contrary, the more technical stuff i ride the less i backpedal. I'm fairly confident the backpedalers and POE obsessed are weekend warriors with good technical ability and poor fitness. ...Or gear dorks with neither fitness nor skill.


My assumption is you do most of your backpedaling on the fast flowy stuff?


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## phreeky (Sep 25, 2015)

Cleared2land said:


> My assumption is you do most of your backpedaling on the fast flowy stuff?


To change pedal orientation on the fast sections just pedal forward.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Good advice.


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## joshhan (Apr 1, 2011)

scottzg said:


> On the contrary, the more technical stuff i ride the less i backpedal. I'm fairly confident the backpedalers and POE obsessed are weekend warriors with good technical ability and poor fitness. ...Or gear dorks with neither fitness nor skill.


Wow! Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

He must have sanitized his trail by pulling all the big rocks out.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

These comments about losing top end are a little absurd. With my 32 ring I can easily pedal 25 mph and top out around 28mph to the trailhead. We have several locals who convert their mtbs into road machines with different wheels 1x10 and 1x11. Unless you're sprinting on a fireroad downhill to a finish, I don't see the problem. 

A calculator just showed you would need to spin 90 rpm at 22 mph with 29 inch wheels. 
With a 30 chainring at 22 mph you would need to spin 94 rpm at 22mph and 104 at 25 mph.

There are downfalls, but I don't consider this one of them.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I'm still the curmudgeon. I have a 3x9 29er and a 2x10 fatty that can go 29+. My biggest question is on trails where you have sharp transitions up-down-up-down-... There are places where the bottoms are washed out, with sharp transitions, so very little momentum to climb up the other side. I would usually just leave the rear gear in the middle of the cassette and shift between middle and granny rather than try to shift 4 gears. I know I would usually shift down while on the descent. 1 click. Then shift back up at the top. 1 click. How are those multi-gear shifts on an 11-speed? OK? 

I still like to explore and I might find myself on a 4-wheeler trail or powerline, or plowing through snow. 22/36 on the fatty/29+ or 22/32 on the 29er go a long way to getting up those things. 36/11 on the fatty has only been used a handful of times so far, but I like having it. 44-11 on the 29er gets used often on the downs as I make my way to any of a number of local trailheads.

-F


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

Rod said:


> These comments about losing top end are a little absurd. With my 32 ring I can easily pedal 25 mph and top out around 28mph to the trailhead. We have several locals who convert their mtbs into road machines with different wheels 1x10 and 1x11. Unless you're sprinting on a fireroad downhill to a finish, I don't see the problem.
> 
> A calculator just showed you would need to spin 90 rpm at 22 mph with 29 inch wheels.
> With a 30 chainring at 22 mph you would need to spin 94 rpm at 22mph and 104 at 25 mph.
> ...


Some people ride on roads instead of driving everywhere, I top out the speed of the 1x11 frequently, I would like to go faster but its not even close to being as bad as dealing with a front derailleur. My old bike could go 35-40mph if I pedaled as fast as I could, now Im lucky to get 30mph.



> I would usually just leave the rear gear in the middle of the cassette and shift between middle and granny rather than try to shift 4 gears. I know I would usually shift down while on the descent. 1 click. Then shift back up at the top. 1 click. How are those multi-gear shifts on an 11-speed? OK?


The shifts are VASTLY superior to using the front derailleur, you can shift while under very heavy load so you can gradually shift up and keep cadence, front derailleurs are extremely unreliable under load and the cadence change sucks. One of the best things about climbing on an 11speed is being able to maintain a comfortable cadence.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

idividebyzero said:


> Some people ride on roads instead of driving everywhere, I top out the speed of the 1x11 frequently, I would like to go faster but its not even close to being as bad as dealing with a front derailleur. My old bike could go 35-40mph if I pedaled as fast as I could, now Im lucky to get 30mph.
> 
> The shifts are VASTLY superior to using the front derailleur, you can shift while under very heavy load so you can gradually shift up and keep cadence, front derailleurs are extremely unreliable under load and the cadence change sucks. One of the best things about climbing on an 11speed is being able to maintain a comfortable cadence.


Great point and cross shifting is a non issue with 1x decreasing parts wear and potential chain drop.

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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

scottzg said:


> On the contrary, the more technical stuff i ride the less i backpedal. I'm fairly confident the backpedalers and POE obsessed are weekend warriors with good technical ability and poor fitness. ...Or gear dorks with neither fitness nor skill.


You probably just have an exceptionally short crank.

Ha !


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

idividebyzero said:


> Some people ride on roads instead of driving everywhere, I top out the speed of the 1x11 frequently, I would like to go faster but its not even close to being as bad as dealing with a front derailleur. My old bike could go 35-40mph if I pedaled as fast as I could, now Im lucky to get 30mph.
> 
> The shifts are VASTLY superior to using the front derailleur, you can shift while under very heavy load so you can gradually shift up and keep cadence, front derailleurs are extremely unreliable under load and the cadence change sucks. One of the best things about climbing on an 11speed is being able to maintain a comfortable cadence.


I'm one of those people that ride on roads instead of driving to the trail. If I get up above 25-28 mph (spin out) i tuck because I only do that going downhill mostly. It's not efficient to pedal a mountain bike at those speeds on the road.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Rod said:


> These comments about losing top end are a little absurd. With my 32 ring I can easily pedal 25 mph and top out around 28mph to the trailhead. We have several locals who convert their mtbs into road machines with different wheels 1x10 and 1x11. Unless you're sprinting on a fireroad downhill to a finish, I don't see the problem.
> 
> A calculator just showed you would need to spin 90 rpm at 22 mph with 29 inch wheels.
> With a 30 chainring at 22 mph you would need to spin 94 rpm at 22mph and 104 at 25 mph.
> ...


You are correct about the negligible difference between top end on a 2x setup vs. 1x setup. Changing my 2x fatty or 2x XC fully to a 1x wouldn't have a drastic effect on the gearing on either of those bikes. The only advantages would be to save 335 grams and make things simpler mechanically.









I probably shouldn't have mentioned top end in this particular thread because my argument was from the standpoint of going 1x from 3x, which I am still running on 4 of my bikes. The top end difference between 1x and what I am currently riding is actually the difference between a 44 or 46 tooth chain ring and a 30 or 32 tooth chain ring. At 20-25 mph, this is a difference of 30+rpm. Since I am not sure I could maintain your 90+ rpm for the full 6-8 miles I ride to my local trail heads, I'll continue to ride my 3x.

Thanks for the informative discussion.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

sgltrak said:


> You are correct about the negligible difference between top end on a 2x setup vs. 1x setup. Changing my 2x fatty or 2x XC fully to a 1x wouldn't have a drastic effect on the gearing on either of those bikes. The only advantages would be to save 335 grams and make things simpler mechanically.
> 
> View attachment 1113822
> 
> ...


Good point. I like to spin and I normally ride my road bike 90-95 rpm. I don't always ride fast to the trail unless I'm running late or a day where I'm testing myself. 30 rpm is a big difference and a lot of my friends prefer much slower rpms. I have a lot of road miles too.

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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Rod said:


> I'm one of those people that ride on roads instead of driving to the trail. If I get up above 25-28 mph (spin out) i tuck because I only do that going downhill mostly. It's not efficient to pedal a mountain bike at those speeds on the road.


If people are strong enough to spin out a 1x on level ground, they need to use a bigger chainring.

If the concern is how fast you can pedal down a paved or smooth dirt road downhill, you're riding the wrong kind of bike.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

richde said:


> If people are strong enough to spin out a 1x on level ground, they need to use a bigger chainring.
> 
> If the concern is how fast you can pedal down a paved or smooth dirt road downhill, you're riding the wrong kind of bike.


Agreed and how fast do they need to get to the trail? Faster than 22 mph at 90 rpm? I think it just comes down to people trying to find reasons not to try 1x. Haters gotta hate.

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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

richde said:


> If people are strong enough to spin out a 1x on level ground, they need to use a bigger chainring.
> 
> If the concern is how fast you can pedal down a paved or smooth dirt road downhill, you're riding the wrong kind of bike.





Rod said:


> Agreed and how fast do they need to get to the trail? Faster than 22 mph at 90 rpm? I think it just comes down to people trying to find reasons not to try 1x. Haters gotta hate.


Haha...these...


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

RS VR6 said:


> Haha...these...


Thanks!

We have locals converting their 1x to road maxhines, different wheels, and attending A group road rides and centuries.

If you can do a sub 5 hour century on a 1x, it's fast enough for us average Joe's riding 5 miles to the trail.

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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I have a hard enough time trying to maintain 20mph on my road bike. It's something I can only do for short periods of time riding by myself.

I tend to think that people greatly exaggerate the amount of time they spend "spinning out."

Both of my MTB's are 1x. 30T front. One is a 10sp 11-42 and the other 11sp 10-42. Only time I really use the smallest cog is on wide open downhill sections. I'd be burnt out by the time I got to my closest trail if I was cruising at 20 mph on the road.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I dunno why you guys even run 1x, why not just figure out the easiest gear you'll need for any trail you ride, then just set up as single speed. As clearly nobody ever pedals DH and only just putts along on the flat, so long as you can get up the biggest climb, thats all you'll need.

I have nothing against 1x, I think for 99%of my actual mtbing it would be perfectly fine. I do have issues with the, "this is what I use and it works perfectly for me, and what I do, so therefore it will work perfectly for everyone else no matter what/where they ride or what their priorities are, clearly they are doing it wrong and need to be sneered at for being fools".


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

RS VR6 said:


> I have a hard enough time trying to maintain 20mph on my road bike. It's something I can only do for short periods of time riding by myself.
> 
> I tend to think that people greatly exaggerate the amount of time they spend "spinning out."
> 
> Both of my MTB's are 1x. 30T front. One is a 10sp 11-42 and the other 11sp 10-42. Only time I really use the smallest cog is on wide open downhill sections. I'd be burnt out by the time I got to my closest trail if I was cruising at 20 mph on the road.


I'm with ya. We can all spin out 32x11 or 38x10 on the Internet.

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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

mik_git said:


> I dunno why you guys even run 1x, why not just figure out the easiest gear you'll need for any trail you ride, then just set up as single speed. As clearly nobody ever pedals DH and only just putts along on the flat, so long as you can get up the biggest climb, thats all you'll need.
> 
> I have nothing against 1x, I think for 99%of my actual mtbing it would be perfectly fine. I do have issues with the, "this is what I use and it works perfectly for me, and what I do, so therefore it will work perfectly for everyone else no matter what/where they ride or what their priorities are, clearly they are doing it wrong and need to be sneered at for being fools".


 I'm just arguing the law of diminishing returns and that people are regularly riding 28+ mph to and from the trail. We all know it's absurd.

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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

mik_git said:


> I do have issues with the, "this is what I use and it works perfectly for me, and what I do, so therefore it will work perfectly for everyone else no matter what/where they ride or what their priorities are, clearly they are doing it wrong and need to be sneered at for being fools".


No directed at anyone in particular on this thread but ^^^ this.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

mik_git said:


> I dunno why you guys even run 1x, why not just figure out the easiest gear you'll need for any trail you ride, then just set up as single speed. As clearly nobody ever pedals DH and only just putts along on the flat, so long as you can get up the biggest climb, thats all you'll need.
> 
> I have nothing against 1x, I think for 99%of my actual mtbing it would be perfectly fine. I do have issues with the, "this is what I use and it works perfectly for me, and what I do, so therefore it will work perfectly for everyone else no matter what/where they ride or what their priorities are, clearly they are doing it wrong and need to be sneered at for being fools".


I didn't realize that being able to, in theory, pedal up to 22-25mph is "putting.". Someone should tell all those EWS (and XCO) guys that there's some guys on MTBR that have the secret for speed. But some people like to measure their worth by the size of their chainring, truth is what really counts is the motor.

FYI: one of the main reasons for 1x is better chain retention, along with increased ground clearance. You're not going to go far or fast with your chain hanging on your bottom bracket, or with a mangled chainring.

The reason people are being sneered at is because they act as if they're going to be pedaling a mountain bike at 30mph on a regular basis, which is silly on its own, and how their experience is going to be deminished by not being theoretically able to. If you want to keep up with road bikes, get a road bike.

Come on, if you can't push 30x42, top end isn't the real issue.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

richde said:


> I didn't realize that being able to, in theory, pedal up to 22-25mph is "putting.". Someone should tell all those EWS (and XCO) guys that there's some guys on MTBR that have the secret for speed. But some people like to measure their worth by the size of their chainring, truth is what really counts is the motor.
> 
> FYI: one of the main reasons for 1x is better chain retention, along with increased ground clearance. You're not going to go far or fast with your chain hanging on your bottom bracket, or with a mangled chainring.
> 
> ...


This.

I'm running a 34t x 10-42. On 29x2.25 tires.

The only time I wish I had a larger chainring is when I'm doing intervals with a tailwind, on the road. A few super fast pedal strokes, once or twice a ride, on a smoother descent.

(And when I race, it says "Pro Men" next to my name)

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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> Haha...these...


Yep it's not mountain biking at that point.

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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Personally I don't think these people are riding 25-30mph, I mean maybe they are, I don't ride with them so no idea, but unlikely, just that people are pointing out that there are parts of their ride that are of that sort of speed. I mean if I ride to my local trail, then my ride there i'm probably averageing, heck something slow. But coming home it'd be more like 25-30 with great sections of 35-40mph. (40 min climb, 10 minute descent). Now sometimes I just coast if Im knackered sometimes I hammer, it's awesome fun, but my 2x FS bike runs out of gears well before my 3x HT. And it's an absolute blast going down, and pick either of 2 ways, having the higher gear either helps to carry more speed over some rollers, or helps to keep up with/stay ahead of traffic.
It's a similar deal if I go to the other local trail... but a different issue at another one, more times spun out for less periods of time (so 1x would be far less of a top end issue).
Sometimes i just go for a ride, knowing I'l be going places I wouldn't want to ride my roadie, but it's mostly on the road, spinning out all over the place, just not on the flat, but the long DH's.

You just can't say the 1x is perfect for everyone, all the time, sure it will be plenty for pretty much most of the people most of the time.

Again I have nothing against 1x, more than likely I'll set up the FS bike 2x->1x in the future, but I'll be keeping my HT with all the gears for those days when having more gears is more fun.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Real mtb'ers go 1x...

Wannbe roadies go 2x or 3x...

It's 2017 already!!

Loose the left shifter ^^

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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

Umm, maybe I'm a little unique, but to ride to my local trial, about 6miles, and can and do the bigger speeds as a warm up. If I am returning home and have a bit a gas left in the tank, I will also blow out the 'cob-webs'. There is nothing wrong in doing so. I prefer to ride to my trail rather than drive - that's my choice. Oddly though, I find it easier to do the 20-25mph thing than to climb up 14% grades so I do not neccessarily see this as a 'manly' thing, each person's body can respond differently to the conditions. This might not suit your arguements, but I caution you to be aware of differing circumstances and abilities. We are not all in the same box. Thankfully.

Eric


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## jimbowho (Dec 16, 2009)

No regrets on my 1x7 & 1x9 but I went back to a 3x10 On my new fs 22-30-40 SLX. that, with a big cog, clutch, grip shift. Been having a lot of fun. One thing worth noting is with a 40 ring I use it more than I expected. And having bad feet a granny keeps me from hiking in "some" of the knar. 3xfor me.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

richde said:


> if you can't push 30x42, top end isn't the real issue.


Nearly all of my rides have hills I couldn't climb in that.
Would need to go 28 to get the climbing gear I have now, and I'm on a 26 er.
If I get a new bike with bigger wheels, I'd need one of those monster cassettes.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

idividebyzero said:


> I can shift to any gear under heavy load compared to a FD which was pretty much 50/50 if it would shift to granny under load, and the chain is completely silent even while bashing through rock gardens.


Semi-noob question here. When I first started riding (road, not MTB) I was taught to never shift under load. Heard the same thing when I switched over to riding mostly MTB. Did the need to be worried about this change at all when clutch RDs came along? I thought the primary function of the clutch RD was to eliminate chain bounce, noise & drops by keep the it more taught over rough ground. Just asking this b/c I'm still super careful (even with a clutch RD on my 1X11) to not shift under load unless I just get completely caught off guard on a new trail.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

OldGringo said:


> Semi-noob question here. When I first started riding (road, not MTB) I was taught to never shift under load. Heard the same thing when I switched over to riding mostly MTB. Did the need to be worried about this change at all when clutch RDs came along? I thought the primary function of the clutch RD was to eliminate chain bounce, noise & drops by keep the it more taught over rough ground. Just asking this b/c I'm still super careful (even with a clutch RD on my 1X11) to not shift under load unless I just get completely caught off guard on a new trail.


I try to never shift under load. I try to keep my cadence up and slowly drop gears while I go up the hill. If I get caught off guard, I try to give it one or two hard pedals and then soft pedal to shift. I hope that makes sense. It's much easier to break chains and bend or break teeth with so much pressure on your chain when you shift under load.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

andytiedye said:


> Nearly all of my rides have hills I couldn't climb in that.
> Would need to go 28 to get the climbing gear I have now, and I'm on a 26 er.
> If I get a new bike with bigger wheels, I'd need one of those monster cassettes.


That's why 1x isn't for everyone. We all have different terrain and fitness levels. Those larger wheels have more rotating weight too.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Rod said:


> I try to never shift under load. I try to keep my cadence up and slowly drop gears while I go up the hill. If I get caught off guard, I try to give it one or two hard pedals and then soft pedal to shift. I hope that makes sense. It's much easier to break chains and bend or break teeth with so much pressure on your chain when you shift under load.


Thanks for the reply. Your approach makes perfect sense...that's basically what I've been doing as well...learned from road riding...try to push a little harder in the gear I'm in for a couple revolutions to create "room" for a smooth shift.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

OldGringo said:


> Thanks for the reply. Your approach makes perfect sense...that's basically what I've been doing as well...learned from road riding...try to push a little harder for a couple revolutions to create "room" for a smooth shift.


Exactly, :thumbsup:


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Rod said:


> That's why 1x isn't for everyone. We all have different terrain and fitness levels. Those larger wheels have more rotating weight too.


Which is countered by greater roll over...

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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

targnik said:


> Which is countered by greater roll over...
> 
> Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


I would need to the data but we both agree that roll over is greater with 29 inch wheels. My stock wheels were boat anchors.

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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

targnik said:


> Real mtb'ers go 1x...
> 
> Wannbe roadies go 2x or 3x...
> 
> ...


Wannabe mountain bikers think it is equipment that validates their existence. 
Ride your ride, don't worry about anyone else.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

bloaker said:


> Wannabe mountain bikers think it is equipment that validates their existence.
> Ride your ride, don't worry about anyone else.


+1

As long as it's 1x 

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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I'm sorry, as long as there are mixed-terrain rides I want my 44T ring. Sure, I'm only in the 4th or 5th cog on the flats, but even the slightest descent allows me to get up to 25-30mph, and on big hills I'll hit 50mph if I really go for it. I would feel like I'm wasting time coasting if I didn't have that range.
Yes, it hits a few rocks and logs. I can file the burrs off when I get home if my chain hasn't worn them off.
And my front der. is quite reliable. I set it up myself. On the old bike it shifted 20-32-44 on an 11-28 8-speed - no problem - with a nice, short rear derailleur tucked in where it usually avoided damage.
I know my set-up doesn't work for everybody. :eekster:
No, really! 

-F


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

BS flag on hitting 50mph on a mountain bike. To do that on a road bike you need a really big hill and/or a tail wind.

I can hit 25-30 mph (GPS verified) with a 1x as well, along with having almost exactly the same gear ratio at the bottom end as your 20x28.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I hit 50mph on my road bike once...and it was for like a split second. It was from the top of Mulholland and Kanan Rd all the way down Kanan to the 101 freeway. If anyone knows that road...its a long and fairly straight. I had to draft my friend and pedal as hard as I possibly could to hit 50mph. There are guys that did hit 50+...but it was with multiple riders in a pace line. I've coasted down some mountain passes here in So Cal on my MTB (down from Chantry Flats into Arcadia) and I can't see it going 50mph. The road would have to be hella straight and very steep.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

richde said:


> BS flag on hitting 50mph on a mountain bike. To do that on a road bike you need a really big hill and/or a tail wind.
> 
> I can hit 25-30 mph (GPS verified) with a 1x as well, along with having almost exactly the same gear ratio at the bottom end as your 20x28.


44-11. Do the math. I didn't, but it's not even 125 rpm on 29x2.2 tires. And yes, it's a big hill. That's one thing that distinguishes my MTB from most others.

-F


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Fleas said:


> 44-11. Do the math. I didn't, but it's not even 125 rpm on 29x2.2 tires. And yes, it's a big hill. That's one thing that distinguishes my MTB from most others.
> 
> -F


actually it's 150 rpm- BikeCalc.com - Speed at all Cadences for any Gear and Wheel

I'm not calling bs because I don't know you and I wasn't there but I will say that's flat out world class flying.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> actually it's 150 rpm- BikeCalc.com - Speed at all Cadences for any Gear and Wheel
> 
> I'm not calling bs because I don't know you and I wasn't there but I will say that's flat out world class flying.


Fair 'nough. This is the hill. Think about it. If you have a 44-11 and your goal is to break 50mph, even for a second, you'd do it, right?
Hines Hill in Macedonia, OH, United States | MapMyRide

-F


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

are we talking top speeds as in gained or are we talking speeds pedaled at? Because I've don 50mph down a steep street (well i'm claiming it, hopefully my old cateye was set up right and accurate...) but I span out about 1/3 of the way down the hill (44x11 26HT). Did it faster on my DH bike with top of 53x11 26FS, span out farther down, but no speedo, so no idea (surely 100  ). But pedaling, not even close to anything like that, be like low 30's maybe


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

mik_git said:


> are we talking top speeds as in gained or are we talking speeds pedaled at? Because I've don 50mph down a steep street (well i'm claiming it, hopefully my old cateye was set up right and accurate...) but I span out about 1/3 of the way down the hill (44x11 26HT). Did it faster on my DH bike with top of 53x11 26FS, span out farther down, but no speedo, so no idea (surely 100  ). But pedaling, not even close to anything like that, be like low 30's maybe


The top of the hill has a nice slope running into it, so I'm already doing ~25mph. Then when it pitches down it's pretty steep. I've hit it with less "umph" and done ~48, so I like to think I pedaled it over 50, or at least generated enough momentum to take advantage of the hill.
That's my whole point anyway - by having the extended gear range, I feel like I'm getting the most out of it. There's no idle time. There's no reason to coast on the way to the trail. :thumbsup:

Check the tandem forum for some high speeds. Those folks are at motorcycle speeds!

-F


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

scottzg said:


> On the contrary, the more technical stuff i ride the less i backpedal. I'm fairly confident the backpedalers and POE obsessed are weekend warriors with good technical ability and poor fitness. ...Or gear dorks with neither fitness nor skill.


I'm fairly confident that people who think they ride really technical stuff but say they never, ever have to backpedal don't really ride technical stuff that people who do ride really technical stuff would think is really technical.

Anything I would consider 'really technical' is very likely to require stalls, hops, and plenty of slow speed maneuvering. All those hours you spent in spin class just aren't going to cut it.

I also find myself sometimes backpedaling when dropping the inside pedal for a corner, depending.


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## johnsonbrad1 (Oct 19, 2016)

I've been very happy since going to 1x11. I started out with a 1x10 on my Krampus, which I really liked the simplicity of, but had two problems. The SLX shifter only did one upshift at a time, and the range of the cassette plus 33t chainring killed me on the climbs. I put an 11-46t cassette on the back, and dropped to a 30t Wolftooth up front. I also upgraded the shifter from SLX level to XT level to get the 2 upshifts feature. 

After making these changes I am 100% sold on 1x. I have plenty of low end for climbing that 36lb beast up hills, and only spin out biking around town, never on the trails. With some of the new TRS cassettes out there I think peoples issues with spinning out could be solved, as the newest one has a 9-46t range.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Fleas said:


> 44-11. Do the math. I didn't, but it's not even 125 rpm on 29x2.2 tires. And yes, it's a big hill. That's one thing that distinguishes my MTB from most others.
> 
> -F


It's not a big hill, you know nothing about big hills, Jon Snow.

But here we are, you talking about how important it is to see how fast you can pedal your mountain bike downhill on a paved road.

I generally ride downhill on trails, and the one place where it's a downhill ride down the road to the car I just coast and easily hit 35mph, on Minions. My road bike is easily 10 if not 15mph faster on that stretch, so when speed on the road matters, I use that instead.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

richde said:


> It's not a big hill, you know nothing about big hills, Jon Snow.
> 
> But here we are, you talking about how important it is to see how fast you can pedal your mountain bike downhill on a paved road.
> 
> I generally ride downhill on trails, and the one place where it's a downhill ride down the road to the car I just coast and easily hit 35mph, on Minions. My road bike is easily 10 if not 15mph faster on that stretch, so when speed on the road matters, I use that instead.


Easy there, Rich. No one here wants to hear your crazy, new fangled logic.

Being serious:

Has anyone here gone faster than 30mph on actual singletrack AND felt the need to pedal (at the same time)?

If so, can you post a link to the trail in question?

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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

Got a 2017 Stumpjumper 650B with 30T front and 10-42 rear.

TBH, I could do with a lower low gear for some of my steep climbs or when I'm toast.

Otherwise I like 1x11.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Easy there, Rich. No one here wants to hear your crazy, new fangled logic.
> 
> Being serious:
> 
> ...


I'm going to answer this in my typically lazy fashion and relate that I did spin out my 2X10 on singletrack on Orcas Island, WA. Don't know or really much care just how fast I was actually going. It felt pretty fast though.

Keep in mind that experience doesn't really lead to any validation to me that 2X10 is wonderful or anything like that. All it means is that I ran out of gears on a downhill.

I'll probably get around to going 1X when I have the $$ for a new XT setup. If you 1X proponents really want to change the world, just send me a few bucks so that I can make it happen.


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## Carl H. (Nov 8, 2016)

Curveball said:


> If you 1X proponents really want to change the world, just send me a few bucks so that I can make it happen.


How 'bout we send someone to take one of your chainrings instead?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Carl H. said:


> How 'bout we send someone to take one of your chainrings instead?


Is that a veiled threat?

I'm reporting you to the authorities!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> The top of the hill has a nice slope running into it, so I'm already doing ~25mph. Then when it pitches down it's pretty steep. I've hit it with less "umph" and done ~48, so I like to think I pedaled it over 50, or at least generated enough momentum to take advantage of the hill.
> *That's my whole point anyway - by having the extended gear range, I feel like I'm getting the most out of it. There's no idle time. There's no reason to coast on the way to the trail.* :thumbsup:
> 
> Check the tandem forum for some high speeds. Those folks are at motorcycle speeds!
> ...


I am assuming that you responded below before reading this^^^.

-F

PS - I am flattered that I hit 50mph on what you call "not a big hill". :yesnod:



richde said:


> It's not a big hill, you know nothing about big hills, Jon Snow.
> 
> But here we are, you talking about how important it is to see how fast you can pedal your mountain bike downhill on a paved road.
> 
> I generally ride downhill on trails, and the one place where it's a downhill ride down the road to the car I just coast and easily hit 35mph, on Minions. My road bike is easily 10 if not 15mph faster on that stretch, so when speed on the road matters, I use that instead.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

I've not read every post on here, but I am a newbie when it comes to 1 x 11. I just got a 2015 Stumpy carbon EVO, new to me, and have only ever used 3 x 9 or 2 x 9 before this. The front derailleur has never been an issue for me, set and forget mostly, but with the Stumpy I am running a 30T RaceFace up front with a Shimano XT 11-42 out back. I do need space to run my DOSS remote under the bars, so the lack of front shifter is welcome. MY riding is steep and rocky usually, and on the few rides I have done in the last week since I got it, the backpedal chain drop has been a big issue for me. On a steep incline in rocks, you HAVE to backpedal often to prevent pedal strikes and such. I was thinking as my chain popped for the umpteenth time this morning on my usual climb that the chain line was too steep in the lowest gear, and that maybe the spacers on the drive side were a tad too wide, then I found this thread. Seems this is a 'common' problem. I did buy a SRAM XX1 chain the other day, just had not gotten around to changing it yet, but I see several people saying that this helps or even solves the problem... I'll pop it on there later and let you know! If not, back to the spacers...
For those people who bemoan the lack of a gear that will let them go a hair faster on the road or flat trail, I suggest you go for a different setup... Personally I seldom have need for that in the rocks... I hate roads or flat trails me!


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

1x11
My best setup ever. It's awesome, I wish I can bump it to 1x12 but $$$$ is an issue. 1x12 is the future...


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Personally, I'm very pleased with the 1x11 with no need at this time to step up to a 12


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Check your chain to tire clearance before deciding on going to eagle. I believe it only sits inboard another 2mm, but if you already have chain rub against the tire on 1x11, 1x12 will make it worse. Thats probably one of the reasons companies have moved towards boost spacing in the rear.

I'm already too tight on my bike, so moving it inboard any more is a deal breaker. Since moving to 12 speed in the future doesn't look possible, I decided to drop the coin on a wider range TRSr 11 speed cassette instead. Or at least thats how I justify spending the money to myself.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

HTR4EVR said:


> 1x11
> My best setup ever. It's awesome, I wish I can bump it to 1x12 but $$$$ is an issue. 1x12 is the future...


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I noticed that there are many alcoholic people because I often see them 12 pack every day 

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> View attachment 1115475


1 x 12 is the present, 1 x 13 is the future.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

LaXCarp said:


> 1 x 12 is the present, 1 x 13 is the future.


All depends on the dork factor.


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## tealy (Mar 7, 2013)

okay


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

tealy said:


> I regretted it. Back on 2x now. Very happy.
> 
> 1x: less range, less durable, no big gear jumps, more expensive, more cross-chain friction/noise, more rear wheel weight, more exposed rear derailleur, backpedal issues, chain retention issues, etc
> 
> Is that enough reasons?


WTF?

I can possibly grasp more cross-chain issues.

How is it less durable?

More expensive? No front derailleur or shifter expense.

More rear wheel weight? Explain this one. This depends on your chosen cassette. Overall, your bike is lighter.

I have zero backpedal issues with zero chain retention problems.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I like my new xtr 1x11 set up. It simply my shifting and less worries 

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

tealy said:


> I regretted it. Back on 2x now. Very happy.
> 
> 1x: less range, less durable, no big gear jumps, more expensive, more cross-chain friction/noise, more rear wheel weight, more exposed rear derailleur, backpedal issues, chain retention issues, etc
> 
> Is that enough reasons?


You're really trying to split hairs.

Cross chain is worse on a 2x setup especially if you go big/big or small/small...which I see lots of people do.

Not expensive any more. SRAM has NX and now Shimano with SLX. If you're running a SRAM 10sp with a Type 2 derailleur...all you need is a new chain and Sunrace cassette...or Shimano Shadow Plus...add a Goat Link. Heck you can just get a narrow wide ring to start. That's like $30 nowadays.

Rear wheel weight? LOL

Exposed derailleur?

I pedal forwards...not backwards. Neither of my bikes do the backpedal chain drop.

It's only less range if you plan on riding your mountain bike on the road at "40mph".

No dropped chains. If you manage to shred hard enough to drop a chain on a NW ring...a simple upper guide will fix that.

Durability, I can maybe see that. You're only using one ring in the front ring 100% of the time. At the same time...I don't really see anybody complaining about burning through their chainrings. Again...splitting hairs. Wolf Tooth has a stainless ring...problem solved.

There is nothing wrong with 2x, but you're really digging deep to come up with negatives for going 1x.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Picard said:


> I noticed that there are many alcoholic people because I often see them 12 pack every day
> 
> Sent from my SM
> 
> I hide my alcoholism by buying only 11 packs of beer.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Two 6-packs twice a week is better than one 12-pack a week. Besides...my quality, hand-crafted brews don't come in 12-packs.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> quality, hand-crafted brews don't come in 12-packs.


Thats right. They come in 30 gallon six packs though... 









Pardon the messy brew lab. This was the only pic I could find.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

It's nice to share...

what's in the carboys?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> what's in the carboys?


I couldn't tell you, as this pic is pretty old. But I can tell you whats in them now. I have a Racer 5 clone, a SN Celebration ale clone, and a brown ale ready to bottle this weekend. Then I'll have a Citra/Mosaic IIPA, Imperial Oatmeal Stout, and a Strong Scotch Ale going right back in.

Unfortunately it seems I've been tasked with providing post ride refreshments for the entire group in perpetuity.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm in for a sampling of all of the upcoming brews.

You've been appropriately tasked.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> I'm in for a sampling of all of the upcoming brews.
> 
> You've been appropriately tasked.


If I can come up with a way to bottle and ship small quantities, ill see what I can do. Otherwise if you find yourself landing in the metro new york area, LMK.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

So, back to the matter in hand, I just went out and changed my chain from the crap one that was on there (I guess a Chinese knock-off the seller put on), for an XX1. I tested the old one with some driveway backpedaling beforehand, and sure enough it unwound from the 42T quicker than a pole dancer faced with a $20 bill. After changing it I backpedaled like fury up and down my street and couldn't get it budge off that big cog! If the neighbors thought I was nuts walking the cats up and down there twice a day, they know now I am fully batshit crazy...
Nice tip from that guy! Thanks!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

You all got me thinking so I went to see Sheldon Brown.
BITD, I had a top gear of 92 gear inches. As a commuter, I spent most of my time in the 60-92 gear-inch range.
When I got stronger I went up to 104 and I could get there pretty regularly.
Currently, on my 29er, it's 116! (44-11 on 29x2.3 tire)
The silly part is that I still ride most of the time in the same gear that I did when I started (I just downshift less and spin more): right around 60-70 gear inches on the flats, and 40-50 gear inches off road.
If I remove the 36 and 44 and throw a 38 and a bash ring on the 29er, my top gear will still be 100 and I'll pick up some valuable ground clearance. I know I can spin that out on a hill, but not frequently. So that's the next project. I can't see going 1X though. I like having that ~20 gear-inch bottom for those old-school fall line climbs (might need an 11-34 for that).

-F


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Built a hardtail with M7000 drivetrain. Shifts flawlessly. Better than the M875 I have on another bike.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

People with the XT 11speed and back pedal drop issues switching to a KMC chain stopped it on my bike. However it is not a smooth feeling at first but after a bit its fine.

X11SL Ti Nitride » KMC Chain

BTW my 11spd setup has outlasted all my 10speed stuff. The shimano chains last about 400miles of woods riding though and they become unreliable. See if the KMC holds up any better.


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## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

Holy Crap, $75 for a chain?!


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I was a huge fan of KMC until the 11 speed came out, and stayed, at ridiculous prices. Not to mention I'v had way better luck with newer SRAM chains regarding backpedaling, but I guess every setup is different...


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

LaXCarp said:


> Holy Crap, $75 for a chain?!


I got my last one for $35 shipped, I just added the link for a reference.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

No regrets here. I have had either 1X10 or 1X11 on my last three rides, and currently have a Cannondale HT with 1X11 32/10-42 and a Scott Spark with a 30/10-42, both XX1. I climb a lot of steep sheet here in So-Cal and do not miss a 2X. I like the simplicity and think I have tossed a chain like twice in the last four years. I doubt I will ever have a MTB with a front mech again...


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

My grinding chain is giving me the heebee-geebeez & is making think I should have stayed 1x10 (w/ 42t as largest cog)

Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Until a lightweight gearbox system arrives, my ideal drivetrain is electric 1x11. The only thing I haven't liked is the friction in the low gears. Just motivation to get in better shape.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

alexdi said:


> The only thing I haven't liked is the friction in the low gears. Just motivation to get in better shape.


Friction in the low gears? What do you mean?


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Cleared2land said:


> Friction in the low gears? What do you mean?


My bike has XX1. On the stand rotating the cranks, I feel more friction as the chain line sharpens in the larger cogs. This is also apparent riding.


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## FunkyFreeman (Jul 27, 2015)

coming off 2x10 to XX1 (1x11) with 36t up front. I ride anything from daily commuting on flat terrain, bike park to 4-5 feet drops without a guide. Zero problem and very happy. 

My only regret is that I have wasted too long time with multi-ring system because I was afraid that only one ring might not be enough for my really all-round riding style.

Now I'm aiming at Sram Eagle 1x12, just waiting for the cheaper version, not the carbon to come out. But if you're on the fence and can't wait too long, I recommend Sram GX for best value, just take some time to try to use some websites to calculate which size of front ring suits you best.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

alexdi said:


> My bike has XX1. On the stand rotating the cranks, I feel more friction as the chain line sharpens in the larger cogs. This is also apparent riding.


Chain bind happens, but it sounds as if you might have a bit of an issue. I'm on XX1 too, but i don't experience any significant issues as you've outlined. Where's your chainline and on the cassette, where do you spend most of your time?


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

It works fine. I've had the same group on another bike. Run any chain at an angle and there's more noise and more resistance. Not egregious; perhaps a 5% loss. But noticeable.


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## wfbueno (Aug 29, 2014)

*30S vs 11S - Gear Ratio, Speed and rotational mass comparison*

OK,

To help sort things out, I have made a fast comparison between 30s systems vs new 11s systems.

There are a few good surprises when evaluating the alternatives in the market.

Br,

WFB


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## wfbueno (Aug 29, 2014)

ops...please consider this version


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## johnsonbrad1 (Oct 19, 2016)

alexdi said:


> My bike has XX1. On the stand rotating the cranks, I feel more friction as the chain line sharpens in the larger cogs. This is also apparent riding.


I was seeing something similar with my Krampus after taking it to an 11spd. I was trying out different spacers/chainlines. I found even as much as a 1.2mm difference in chainline can lead to dropped chains while backpedaling and an almost forced feeling when shifting up to my 46t. After adding one last 1.2mm spacer both of these issues have ceased, might be worth looking into chainring spacers and moving the chainring closer to the BB.


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## 816455 (Jan 17, 2017)

My video on my thoughts on 1x10 conversion. I explain why i did it and how i feel about it


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

If Shimano would make me a shifter where I could crank three gears at a pull/push either way, I'd consider 1x. I hate all that rear shifting on the undulating terrain when I can use my front ring to shift the equivalent of three rear gears. And Shimano front der is so sweet.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Just remain in one or two rear gears and focus on the ride. You'll be amazed at how this will build your core and make you a stronger rider.


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## joshhan (Apr 1, 2011)

Just kidding. Haven't gone to 11 speed yet. Heh.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Schulze said:


> If Shimano would make me a shifter where I could crank three gears at a pull/push either way, I'd consider 1x. I hate all that rear shifting on the undulating terrain when I can use my front ring to shift the equivalent of three rear gears. And Shimano front der is so sweet.


My M7000 allows me to shift up three at a time. Wish it did the same going down.


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## tealy (Mar 7, 2013)

okay


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

tealy said:


> This is just an excuse for newer technology that is lacking in performance compared to old technology.


Exactly how is it lacking in performance compared to old technology? Also C2l has a point, a lot of riders shift too much IME.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

The only thing I miss is the ability to make a speedy transition when a fast change down is needed to tackle a quick steep upslope. In the past I might have just shifted a cog up front where now I have to click a few and lose a few seconds. Now I just have to plan a slight bit further out, but it ain't really a big deal. Using the 1 x 11 does seem to make me shift a little less which is no bad thing I think, and I was not a particularly rapid fire guy in the first place...


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## tealy (Mar 7, 2013)

okay


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

30t with 10-42 should be able to handle anything you can throw at it. I have zero issues climbing or gravel grinding with my 32t 10-42 setup on my topfuel.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

tealy said:


> You can't shift 3 gears higher with a single push on 1x.
> You can with 2x or 3x.


You can 2 with saint, xtr or xt. Or grip shift you can rock thru the gears as fast as you want.

I run a saint shifter on my 1x10 and i love the double down shift, get to the peak of a hill and 2 double clicks youve shifted 4 gears


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

solarplex said:


> 30t with 10-42 should be able to handle anything you can throw at it. I have zero issues climbing or gravel grinding with my 32t 10-42 setup on my topfuel.


That is only going to work for a percentage of people, otherwise you have to consider rider weight, fitness and pitch/length of climbs....that is whats going to dictate your ratio.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Schulze said:


> If Shimano would make me a shifter where I could crank three gears at a pull/push either way, I'd consider 1x. I hate all that rear shifting on the undulating terrain when I can use my front ring to shift the equivalent of three rear gears. And Shimano front der is so sweet.


No front derailleur is "sweet."

You can't hit a button multiple times? I can rattle through shifts faster than the drivetrain can keep up with SRAM, which doesn't even have a double release like Shimano. Which still works quicker, and more reliably, than a single front derailleur shift, btw.


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## iWiLRiDe (Apr 17, 2006)

I recently went from 2x slx set up to a xt 1x11 set up. I got a 34T xtr ring in the front, and a 11-46 xt rear cassette in the back. There's a lot of climbing where I live but I'm hoping I got enough range with that 46. I hope that's not too brutal. We shall see when the snow melts.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Been a long time Shimano user, started with a 3x5 and 3x9 for last dozen years or so. I recently got the Sram Eagle 1x12. Kinda miss the big ring on some bits of connecting roads but no biggie. Like the simplicity of one lever up and down and a better position for my dropper post button. With a 30x50 low so far so good. 

The prices for chains and cassette are kinda high but hopefully come down some as more adopt....


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> With a 30x50 low so far so good.


Jesus christ, I should hope so...


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> With a 30x50 low so far so good.





Jayem said:


> Jesus christ, I should hope so...


If he's on a 29er, the effective gear ratio isn't much different from the 24×36 or 22×34 low that 26ers came with. I use my lowest low gear (on my 26ers) a lot.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

andytiedye said:


> If he's on a 29er, the effective gear ratio isn't much different from the 24×36 or 22×34 low that 26ers came with. I use my lowest low gear (on my 26ers) a lot.


Not quite, haven't gone 29er yet....but close with 27.5+. Used 22x34/27.5 for several years before this.


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