# XPE Helmet light



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have had these Q5 XPE for a couple of weeks now and have been wondering what to do with them . I did think about using 4 with a dual MCE light .

Then rummaging around in the warehouse of the place I work I came across this aluminium curtain rail thingy so borrowed an off cut for research .

Znomit did a build using a similar extrusion :thumbsup:

After attacking it with a measure and looking at the spec for the carclo 10 mm square optics . it was made for this build I think.

now which build is going to be the best













































It has come to the point when it is the driver that takes up most space so thinking the maxflex can go live in with the battery


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## TOMMO (Dec 12, 2008)

Second one i think,a bit more usable area to heatsink perhaps?
Also you might be able to lense it like a seca or have a high/low setup without it looking uneven.


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## NEstinkyrider (Sep 10, 2007)

My nod goes the horizontal configuration, especially after seeing that side angle shot with the helmet. Very low-profile, looks great.


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Looks very clean and nice, but I too am pretty sure you need more cooling. Remember it will have to dissipate about 15W it you are driving them at 600mA. I was surprised how hot the XP-E got even when properly heatsinked. I had it on a 450g copper heatsink and still it would get burning hot when you pressed your finger on top of it.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

gillestugan said:


> Looks very clean and nice, but I too am pretty sure you need more cooling.


+1

I am sure you already have some ideas but a slug between the two halves of the curtain rail and some old computer heat sinks on the ends might be feasible.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

It is still in the thinking stages and I like the low profile look 
what it needs is an aluminium peak on the helmet ..

yep @ 500ma it warms up pretty quick 

will have to wait and see what the optics are like when they arrive before the final light is decided


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## formantjim (Feb 24, 2008)

I'm also considering building a bigger version of the Pipe Light using the next size up pipe fiitting to be able to put 9 XPE's driven 3 parallel in series fed by a maxflex. 
My problem is there are no dimensional drawings on the Cutter website of the 10mm MCPCB to tell me if the indentations on the pcb are made for the Carclo 10412 etc lenses to fit over or do the legs of the lens fit into the two holes of the pcb.
Can anyone confirm or post the correct dimensions please.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I cant wait to see this build! 8 of them you really are mad! I was thinking of using 3 and doing a 1/2 scale achesalot build. I am sure you will post some sort of beam shot since you always do. I hope the 10mm squares are nice. Any plans to try any of the other xp-e optics? The khatod .5" x 1.5" strip looks like it could be trimmed down to 10mm.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

:idea: 
With a few well placed cuts you could bend it to match the curve of the helmet.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

formantjim said:


> My problem is there are no dimensional drawings on the Cutter website of the 10mm MCPCB to tell me if the indentations on the pcb are made for the Carclo 10412 etc lenses to fit over or do the legs of the lens fit into the two holes of the pcb.
> Can anyone confirm or post the correct dimensions please.


Looking at the data sheet for the 10412 optic the legs just sit around the 10 mm board .
I cant see them going into any of the indents as there are only 2 opposing each other.

Bikerjay.
You are indeed correct in your analysis :crazy:

The final build will depend on what the beam looks like from these wee beasties 
I have ordered the 10417 :incazzato: I did not notice the 10412 had a better efficiency

Beam shots will be posted when they are here 
No plans yet to try any other optics

Znomit

Nice idea but could look a bit messy 
but it may be 2 * 3 XPE fitted to the helmet peak


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

This is really interesting....those things look tiny!! Should be interesting to see what you can come up with Chris 

I reckon I could modify my housing to get, maybe, 6 of those in...without too much trouble. How could they be driven??


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> what it needs is an aluminium peak on the helmet ..


Or and aluminium helmet!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> This is really interesting....those things look tiny!! Should be interesting to see what you can come up with Chris
> 
> I reckon I could modify my housing to get, maybe, 6 of those in...without too much trouble. How could they be driven??


I am very undecided at the moment Steve..

:devil: hell only 6 in your housing :devil:
I just had a look and 14 would squeeze in 
but 12 would be realistic and a maxflex or hipflex to power them










Oh that is the shotblasted and anodised one 

Or you could go 9 xpe and the 20 mm triples Now that could be something Else .
A bit less heat than 3 mce and maybe a better beam


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Or you could go 9 xpe and the 20 mm triples Now that could be something Else .
> A bit less heat than 3 mce and maybe a better beam


But isn't the best angle for the 20mm triple a half angle of 18 degrees, ie total angle of 36 degrees? That makes it more of a flood. No joy with sourceing small quantities of the Polymer Optics range?

On another note Chris, I took the beast out on Wednesday night for the first ride. 38 showed up for a social ride but we were back at the pub before it was truely dark so didn't get to use it. Video this week I promise


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Chris,
Holy cow...14?? Really?? That would be good! I like the sound of the 3 triples with the 20 mm optic...I think I'll do a bit of research...they could well fit straight into the housing.
Steve


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup: Optics arrived today :thumbsup:

Here you go Steve 14 fit easy


















Boy are the tiny devils it is going to be like brain surgery this build.










not dark yet


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*The Compulsery ceiling shots*

I have cobbled a test rig up for some beamshots .

have I mentioned they are darn tiny things .

one single XPE and Carclo 10417 narrow beam very small thing
the tapes are 1 mtre long and 2.2 metres from the microscopic light










and this is 4 of the little beggers ,










when it gets proper dark I will wander out and get a shot on my test trail with these 
nano lights


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## TOMMO (Dec 12, 2008)

Nutter!
Thats more like it!
Perfect light my arse!
Tommo.


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Bloody Hell....That would be some kinda light!! :thumbsup: 

Are you going to have a go at doing all 14?? I reckon you should  But the wiring might be interesting  

I think there are going to be some VERY small lights coming out of the TroutShed soon..

Keep up the good work Chris


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Bloody Hell....That would be some kinda light!! :thumbsup:
> 
> Are you going to have a go at doing all 14?? I reckon you should  But the wiring might be interesting
> 
> ...


I have only got 8 XPE s so need to maximise what I do with them at the moment I have so many ideas I would need 100 to play with.

ref the small lights I just wish you lived nearer I would like to get together and design something really radical I think these are to small for my manual lathing skills and crap mini mill.

these things are small enough to put on your glasses never mind helmet.

There is more wow factor from these than the MCE and 4 XPE with these 10 mm optics are IMHO better than 1 mce and boom reflector .

ok on to the rather rushed beam shots I struggled a bit because the optics were not fixed and just sat on the leds.

I tried to cover 2 leds up here so this is 2 up










this was a bit easier to do the 4 up










I have to say these shots do not do the these justice and I am very impressed with the performance for such a tiny package. 
there is no wasted light out the sides it all goes into the beam

I think if you put 4 or 6 lined up on a helmet peak as tiny seperates you could taylor the perfect helmet light


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

The hotspot looks very similar to the boom SS in the wall beamshot. But then there is much less spill.

Ooo, I want, I want, I want! They look so good when placed in a row like you have done. And the optics are also very shallow, so you will have much more room behind them for drivers and stuff. (if placed in a housing)


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

gillestugan said:


> The hotspot looks very similar to the boom SS in the wall beamshot. But then there is much less spill.
> 
> Ooo, I want, I want, I want! They look so good when placed in a row like you have done. And the optics are also very shallow, so you will have much more room behind them for drivers and stuff. (if placed in a housing)


As you may have gathered I am very excited by these and will have to endure a few hours in my freezing garage to come up with a housing .

These are the Q5 s so the R2 will be a bit brighter but as you see with only 4 they throw to the trees at the back which are 75 mtrs away where the single boom struggles to get half that distance .

Watch this space there is something really cool on the drawing board but will need Deesta`s CNC to do it justice , if he is willing and able to help


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> As you may have gathered I am very excited by these and will have to endure a few hours in my freezing garage to come up with a housing .
> 
> *These are the Q5 s so the R2 will be a bit brighter but as you see with only 4 they throw to the trees at the back which are 75 mtrs away where the single boom struggles to get half that distance .*
> 
> Watch this space there is something really cool on the drawing board but will need Deesta`s CNC to do it justice , if he is willing and able to help


75 Meters of throw! ( 246ft.) :eekster: :skep: Duh....I'm speechless. A six or eight setup could make a nice compact helmet light. Can't wait to see what the commercial bike light builders will do with these.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

WOW 

I have to put the electronics with a remote switch now. There will not be any room for the electronics even in a well cooled light. 

Now I am really wondering, will a 5up 35mm be any good, it could easily be retrofitted to every ones 35mm cutter kits. 

Even the amoeba will soon see portly. Also this has got me wondering about the 20mm round triple, could make for some great dinotte style lights.


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Willing...yes!! Able....depends on what it is


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Bloody freezing in my garage*

I have just spent the last 4 hours wrapped up in my garage chewing a helmet light from a lump of ali.

It was going to be kept secret untill finished but I am so excited about these little babies I had to share it .

I will put up a few piccys

I have gone for 6 XPEs as it makes a nice compact light and is ideal for the Maxflex to power from my 14.8 v batteries and I can run them at full chat if required




























I have tried to make it from one piece so the whole housing is the heat sink .
and there is 10 mm of solid ali behind the leds which I will leave for now but will if needed cut cooling slots if it runs hot . the Maxflex has its own heat sink built in so it will monitor the leds too .

then how to mount it to a helmet the thing was to keep it low profile and most mounting brackets add height .

so I built in some rails and slots for a 25mm wide velcro strap the rails hold it just off the helmet so air can flow under 
the total height on the helmet is 25 mm so pretty low profile. not bad for a 1000 lumen helmet light

It also has a M5 threaded hole in the bottom so a bar mount can be fitted


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

I wish that I had more time to tinker with aluminium. Had seven rebels and polymer optics just waiting for a housing for about a month now! Children and expensive wife usually get time/money first...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Willing...yes!! Able....depends on what it is


 This is where you come in Steve I get this one working and post it to you (Not to keep ) and between us we make it better and you then make some for all the folk who find they want to build one on here and else where .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bumphumper said:


> I wish that I had more time to tinker with aluminium. Had seven rebels and polymer optics just waiting for a housing for about a month now! Children and expensive wife usually get time/money first...


 been there , kids now grown up and wife is glad to get me out of the way


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Yet again Troutie, that is amazing.

But where are the beam shots for this little beast?

Ok, for a serious question, have you measured the vf or the XP-E? I am wondering if it is lower than claimed on the Cree data sheets in a similar way that the MC-E was / is


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Well done trout. It will be very interesting to see the beam out of this one. 

Those square optics make for a really clean looking profile.

The one piece design looks like it should do a nice job with the heat.


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Is anyone worried about heat with these multi xp-e builds? Won't 6 of these in a case the size of a AA battery get pretty damn hot? there's not much surface area there.

Love the idea of a tiny DIY light that blows away the big expensive commercial stuff, but not if my helmet is dripping flaming polystyrene on my head :eekster: 

JZ


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

JimZinVT said:


> Is anyone worried about heat with these multi xp-e builds? Won't 6 of these in a case the size of a AA battery get pretty damn hot? there's not much surface area there.
> 
> Love the idea of a tiny DIY light that blows away the big expensive commercial stuff, but not if my helmet is dripping flaming polystyrene on my head :eekster:
> 
> JZ


I am waiting to see how trouts design goes. I have a feeling that it will be fine while ever he is moving but it will probably trip if he slows up at all. Keep pedaling trout!


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

There's a "heat dissipation" thread going, and they're talking about a rule-of-thumb of either 1sq" or 3sq" of surface area per watt. Seems like this is way under that....any plans to cut grooves or fins into the case Mr. Trout? (trout fins? 

JZ


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

emu26 said:


> Ok, for a serious question, have you measured the vf or the XP-E? I am wondering if it is lower than claimed on the Cree data sheets in a similar way that the MC-E was / is


Look here at post 20 and 24


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Love your work Troutie!


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

This is where you come in Steve I get this one working and post it to you (Not to keep ) and between us we make it better and you then make some for all the folk who find they want to build one on here and else where..

Sounds good to me Chris...looks like it could be an amazing little package!!!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Yet again Troutie, that is amazing.
> 
> But where are the beam shots for this little beast?
> 
> Ok, for a serious question, have you measured the vf or the XP-E? I am wondering if it is lower than claimed on the Cree data sheets in a similar way that the MC-E was / is


Cheers Stu

Beam shots coming soon 
Salty has beaton me to it where the vfs are :thumbsup:

for this light with the 6 xpe @ 750ma 18.22v hi / lo 16.61v
@ 500ma 18.16v 16.57v
@ 350ma 17.8 v 16.49v
-------------------------------------------

JimZinVT
I am not worried because this light is for me and the maxflex will be well heatsunk to the housing as it has its own little pillar machined in the housing . so it will be monitering temps.
also keeping things cool here in the uk is not a problem our night time ambients in summer never top 14c much .

I have areas I can add heatsinking fins too and also fin the solid sink behind the leds
and the lid hasn not been made so may do some fins there also .

I did think about just 4 XPE but there are enough quads around and 6 in series hit the maxflex sweet spot for a 14.8 li ion perfectly ..

It also has a M5 threaded hole in the bottom for attachment of a bar mount to keep it versatile , and it Troutie style an aluminium one then makes the bars a superb heat sink as a few previous lights have proved.










I have read the heat dissi thingy thread and am the suck it and see type of guy 
I understand heat and heatsinking but all that goes way over my head.

I have seen this working and doubt it will see full power except on the downhills.
------------------------------

Ta Hoots :thumbsup:

-----------------------------------

Cheers Steve I am hoping between us we can do a housing from this that ticks all the boxes

crazy bright with good beam 
good heat disipation
light weight
low profile
good looking 
easy to build up 
and easy for you to CNC with only 2 parts

Troutie off to do some beam shots now :yesnod:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*BEAMSHOTS and I like them*

after my Sunday morning lie in till 06.30 it was up and out into minus 3c and gales to take some shots in the woods before daylight.
it was nearly full moon so not too dark.
these piccys taken at the MTBR standard settings

woods in moonlight









Edited due to driver error and unknown MA rating for these beam shots


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

There really doesn't appear to be too much difference between the levels judging from the pics (I opened the thread in 3 tabs so i could flick between the different pics to compare them). That will make for fantastic long run times as low beam looks like it will do a stella job.

Big kudos for braving the weather to take the pics btw. Much appreciated Mr Trout!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> There really doesn't appear to be too much difference between the levels judging from the pics (I opened the thread in 3 tabs so i could flick between the different pics to compare them). That will make for fantastic long run times as low beam looks like it will do a stella job.
> 
> Big kudos for braving the weather to take the pics btw. Much appreciated Mr Trout!


I did wonder about that too Salty 
I wonder if my Nflex was not getting enough volts from the makita 18 v pack 
we will see when the maxflex gets fitted. but still pretty impressive at low current


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> I did wonder about that too Salty
> I wonder if my Nflex was not getting enough volts from the makita 18 v pack
> we will see when the maxflex gets fitted. but still pretty impressive at low current


That might explain it. If it proves to be the case, then high beam may turn out to be devastating :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*It has gained a bit of weight*

A bit more messing around in the garage and the light has gained a bit of weight 
and better heat sinking I hope .

I made a lid and incorperated some fins and extended it over the leds to help transfer some heat away .

and then I had the little step underneath and I had a memory chip heatsink in the things I wont chuck away it may come in Box.

so with a bit of sanding on the belt sander we are making progress but we are up to 99 gms and still have to add a switch and power socket


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> A bit more messing around in the garage and the light has gained a bit of weight and better heat sinking I hope .
> 
> I made a lid and incorporated some fins and extended it over the leds to help transfer some heat away ....


I like those little Torx fasteners. Have you been cannibalizing hard-disk drives again?


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Looking good Mr T...


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

I take it you used 6 of the Tight Narrow optics as this is mainly a helmet light? Looking at the Cutter site I see they have a Plain medium listed with the same half angle! That confuses me because I was thinking of a build with 4 spots and a couple of mediums to provide some flood. Anyone know if the Cutter info is erroneous? I don't really want to send off and get optics that are no use.

[Edit]
Found the Carclo data sheet and there is little or no difference between the Tight and the Plain Medium - in fact Carclo call them both Medium.


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## more10 (Oct 28, 2008)

It is looking really good
I think you would be really scarry with a 5 axed lathe.
It is always exciting to follow your projects. How do you drill your inside corners away at the end of the lens section?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

hootsmon said:


> I like those little Torx fasteners. Have you been cannibalizing hard-disk drives again?


No Hoots they are just M3 button head hex in stainless
and the back are M2










and now a horror pic , I am glad it happened underneath on top would have been a disaster
first a 1.6mm drill bit broke , no worries I have another, great hole no 2 fine then the bloody m2 tap broke in the next , and then on the other side I did not tap the first hole deap enough and the bolt stuck and rounded the hex off It was time for a cup of tea and quiet reflection.










More10 
I hope this answers your question I just drilled a 3 mm hole past the corner
and there is a lens cover to go in yet.so just left those round


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

It's refreshing to see you are human after all. 

As for the front pic, did the cold effect your ability to silicone neatly or is that the legs of the lenses that can be seen on the edges of the clear part of the optic?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

neilt said:


> I take it you used 6 of the Tight Narrow optics as this is mainly a helmet light? Looking at the Cutter site I see they have a Plain medium listed with the same half angle! That confuses me because I was thinking of a build with 4 spots and a couple of mediums to provide some flood. Anyone know if the Cutter info is erroneous? I don't really want to send off and get optics that are no use.
> 
> [Edit]
> Found the Carclo data sheet and there is little or no difference between the Tight and the Plain Medium - in fact Carclo call them both Medium.


Neilt 
Yes I used the 10417 lens front .
I got a tray from carclo so have a few spare , for sale if anyone wants any .

I had the very same idea when doing the build about a couple of wider ones that would be a killer I think.

I just need to pursuade Deesta to do me a better one


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:



> It's refreshing to see you are human after all.
> 
> As for the front pic, did the cold effect your ability to silicone neatly or is that the legs of the lenses that can be seen on the edges of the clear part of the optic?


:lol: Emu you have not seen my failure bin It is good that they keep making smaller optics 
so I can reuse some of the duffs.

no silicon in there just the smallest blob of epoxy on each leg base . nano glueing.
the mess wilh the silicon is to come when the face goes on:lol:

that is the leg tops


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Neilt
> Yes I used the 10417 lens front .
> I got a tray from carclo so have a few spare , for sale if anyone wants any .
> 
> I had the very same idea when doing the build about a couple of wider ones that would be a killer I think.


Excellent. My little plan to build something in one of the little Hammond cases looks feasible then. I could get 8 optics in there, in two rows of 4, but I think that would be a touch too much. 6 should be OK, with some additional heatsinks attached to the top of the case.

I feel an order coming on


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

neilt said:


> Excellent. My little plan to build something in one of the little Hammond cases looks feasible then. I could get 8 optics in there, in two rows of 4, but I think that would be a touch too much. 6 should be OK, with some additional heatsinks attached to the top of the case.
> 
> I feel an order coming on


Neilt 
are you in the uk . and if you are ordering from cutters 
then maybe you could just order the wide optics and I will swop 4 wide for 4 of my narrows

I was thinking the eliptical


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*all MaxFlexed up now*

The XPE light is all wired and working now , I dont know why but when I do these lights
there seems to be loads of room , untill it comes to putting the wires and stuff in then it becomes a struggle to fit it all in .
but it did just fit in 










and one of the maxflex glued to its heat sink which bolts in


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Good work Chris, there doesn't look like much room in there


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Troutie, you just keep on pushing the edge! Good going!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Good work Chris, there doesn't look like much room in there


It is a bit tight and the Mk 2 version will have more room and be a bit thinner with better heat sinking .

what is spoiling the design is the size of the switch I like the waterproof Apem switches

I could go small and use a micro switch but this means more faffing and then loses the universal appeal .

I have just done a tally on the cost of the bought bits for this light and they come out quite good in these credit crunchy days.

XPE R2 s £4.69 - $ 7.01 * 6 = £28.14 / $ 42.06
Carclo optics £ 0.60 $ 0.89 * 6 = £ 3.60 / $ 5.34
maxflex £ 22.00 / $ 32.51
switch / socket / other bits estimate £ 20.00 / $ 29.55
===============
£ 73.74 / $ 109.46
no postage n packing in there .

Not bad for a potential 1000 lm light

when compared to a MR11 R2 quad kit from cutters £ 65.82 / $98.43.
and still need switch socket and sundries £ 20.00/ $ 29.55
=============
£ 85.82 / $ 127.98

Any way all done switch/power socket wired and ready to go for its first ride tonight

and weighing in at 105 grammes including helmet mount strap 










and as Znomit suggested over on CPF the MK2 will have enough room for a couple of red leds in the back also


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Troutie, your light just keeps looking better and better. I was going to do the math to figure the voltage drops and then figure what battery to use with the maxflex and then I thought...why not just ask?  Besides, I figured you will post with some more beam photos of the first ride so why not just keep you talking.  What voltage and type battery are you using to drive this light? Will you helmet mount the battery or just run a longer wire to a pocket or pack? Oh, one more thing...I noticed you mounted a bit of green something under the lights...is this for more heat sinking or what?


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

I hope you remembered to remove the AA battery before you rode....or is it a special kind of heatsink???


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> I hope you remembered to remove the AA battery before you rode....or is it a special kind of heatsink???


 That is one of the new Li uranusium batteries from chernoble will last a lifetime 

Cat 
Thanks

I am using 14.8 li ion 2400mah pack in a small camera bag that just clips on the camelbak strap

I am not keen on the battery on the helmet seems to unbalance it

but I guess you could use 11.1v or even lower but that would make the Maxflex work pretty hard.

no the is it green stuff is the soft bit of heavy duty velcro which my previous helmet light uses I left it on for insulation to stop my head burning


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

deesta said:


> I hope you remembered to remove the AA battery before you rode....or is it a special kind of heatsink???


Nope, that AA battery is his power-supply!


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## Fuzz541 (Jul 27, 2006)

Troutie again lives up to his signature. 

The 3-up Khatod lens from Cutter looks like it would work well for a small Hammond case project.

Also, Hammond makes a heat sink box that, conveniently enough, has rails in the bottom for t-nut mounts. This would be very convenient for non-destructive mounting of the Cateye or other quick-release brackets.

However, the smallest model is 100dx90wx51h, so it defeats some of the size advantage of the XPE. It might work very well for MCE / P7 or multi-XRE lights though.

https://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/531609.pdf

Troutie's headed down the right path. I think the best way to do XPE's will be with the 10mm cutter boards set into a machined block sinking direct to atmosphere. By direct-mounting the boards to the block, then running the wires individually through small holes through the block out to the driver (or even remote-mounting the driver/switch nearby Minewt-style or at least between the battery and light housing) the housing design could concentrate on finning and heat management in the smallest possible package.

Very rough idea:


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

sorry for the high-jack troutie.


Fuzz541 said:


> However, the smallest model is 100dx90wx51h, so it defeats some of the size advantage of the XPE.


This type of box can actually be found in smaller sizes. I've been looking at this 64X40X30mm for use with XP-Es, it can be ordered anodised in different colours. :thumbsup:

Comparing data sheets the PL1153 actually have more throw than the round 25mm 4*XP-E.


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## TheBigYin (Sep 29, 2008)

Fuzz541 said:


> Also, Hammond makes a heat sink box that, conveniently enough, has rails in the bottom for t-nut mounts. This would be very convenient for non-destructive mounting of the Cateye or other quick-release brackets.


Found it on Farnell...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Traumatic first ride report*

This was it after a whirlwind build and nearly freezing to death machining the XPE light 
It was time to give it a trail test ride .

I hooked up with my mate and we decided on a ride we have not done in a year which has a really cool downhill section inside a tunnel of rhodedendren bushes ( spelling a bit iffy) 
with switchbacks for about 1 kilometer it would be the perfect trail for a bit of video

every think is cool when we get to the trail head 
We have some big guns for lights 
I have a dual MCE-boom ss with 2 R2s on the bars and the new 6 xpe light on my helmet .

my mate has my triple MCE with boom ss reflectors .
and my old quad R2 medium Cute optic .

Every thing fitted and working great just need to sort the Helmet cam out and off we go 
No the helmet cam is still at home with the battery on charge :madman:

Ok we can just enjoy the ride so of up the easy climb which is a nice grassy trail 
Or was last time :yikes: It had changed in to a swampy nightmare and with in half a mile we were of and pushing through the gloop .
Then we hif the fog this would have been perfect for a beam shot of the lights if we had the camera .

then some where in the swampy foggy hell we took a wrong trail which added 3/4 mile to the route which does not sound bad but we pushed all the way to the top .
how does water stay on a hillside.

Then it was downhill great hit full beam and rip it , full beam was Baaaad in the fog 
in fact any beam was bad .
so we struggled down the liquified trail to the tunnel which had been totally destroyed by the wind and meant hiking the bikes over the fallen trees this is not a good day .

That was the end of the bad trail riding / pushing and it was fire road back .
this was the only chance to hit full beam and speed .

Full Beam Oh the lights that is what this is about .

I would like to be able to tell you that the XPE light was good but sadly I cannot because it was not good .:smallviolin:

:band:

IT WAS AWESOMELY / AMAZINGLY FANTASTICALY BRILLIANT

It blew away the triple mce for beam and lit the trail great 
the beam shape is like a huge oblong with very little wasted light 
and when compared to the triple mce which ok is good but only because of the sheer volume of light scattered every where .

The double mce with 2 R2s was better and a really good light very usable 
and the 2 R2s were handy in the fog so it was good to switch off the mces 
But this combo has 10 emitters not 6 .

I have found my nearly perfect light and will have one on the bars with a mix of optics 
You can have the MCE and I would happily swap them for some XPE

Sorry no beam shots or video but nexttime

Get some you wont be disapointed this 6 up has the wow factor I was expecting from the MCEs

:lol:Sorry for the drivel in this post :lol: but it is all true


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

I just completed my cutter order


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

GAWD! I nearly had a heart attack reading that - having just ordered all those XPEs last night at great expense.

Now, of course, I can't wait for Cutter's to post the goodies


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Sounds like an eventful ride Chris... 

So, you've found your perfect light? Well, for this week anyway lol 

Looking forward to Friday, can't wait to have a look at the little bugger!!!

Steve


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*some pics of the MK2 Troutfin light*

just pics very tired after muddy slog


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## mtroy (Jun 10, 2005)

trout-man...Your thoughts on a 4 XP-E light build? It seems that would fit my battery needs better. This would be for the hbars.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Trout, it didn't look like you were using a cross-slide vice to get the finning machined into the block of Al. How were you doing it? Were you cutting the fins vertically as the drill head went down? What bit were you using to do it? 

You are getting me all inspired again.... STOP IT! My wallet can't afford it


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Trout, it didn't look like you were using a cross-slide vice to get the finning machined into the block of Al. How were you doing it? Were you cutting the fins vertically as the drill head went down? What bit were you using to do it?
> 
> You are getting me all inspired again.... STOP IT! My wallet can't afford it


It is a milling machine so has a 2 axis table so the slots are milled not drilled


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## formantjim (Feb 24, 2008)

I had exactly the same sinking feeling reading Lord Trouties post as I too last night ordered a bunch of XPE's.

Lord Troutie is our saviour!


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Chris,
If you need any cutting tools, let me know before Friday as I have a few lying around that may be of use to you  Got all sorts of goodies.....slot drills, end mills, solid carbide....all sizes!!!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Neilt & formantjim

:lol::lol:GOTCHA :lol::lol:


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## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

If you're after increased surface area more, thinner, fins would be the go .. no?

What about just knurling the whole thing? 

What you really want is a heat conductive zeolite pad on the top. Lots of surface area! Clay also has a huge surface area -- did you notice a cooling effect when you were waist deep in the stuff?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

glowinthedark said:


> If you're after increased surface area more, thinner, fins would be the go .. no?
> 
> What about just knurling the whole thing?
> 
> What you really want is a heat conductive zeolite pad on the top. Lots of surface area! Clay also has a huge surface area -- did you notice a cooling effect when you were waist deep in the stuff?


I only had a 3mm slot drill so that is the spacing 
No cooling worries I am happy it works on the trail , dont need that many lumens on my desk .
It is crazy bright @ maxflex level 3 
full power is for the lumen war and fast riding.

And funny you mention it but ploughing through the viscous clay had me overheating

Steve yes please you cant have too many tools .

I bet you can beat the 6 hours it took to mill that out


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

No problemo....I'll sort out a selection for you


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

If thats the crappy mini mill you have I want to swap garages. Hell, even if its not, I wanta swap anyway

Can you expand the pics of version 2 so I can see where the lid starts and ends, it will make it easy for me to copy?

Do you think I'd get away with running 4 in series from a 12v battery?

Thanks

Stuart, ordering milling bits today for my cross slide vice and drill press


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> I would like to be able to tell you that the XPE light was good but sadly I cannot because it was not good .:smallviolin:


Haha, you are crazy! You really got me. I was thinking "did he add those empty lines to make the next post start on a new page?" I usually hate smilies, but that small orchestra was hilarious.


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## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> I only had a 3mm slot drill so that is the spacing


I am soooo far out of my area of expertise (not that I really have one) ... BUT ... just coz the slot drill is 3mm doesn't mean the spacing between the slots has to be 3mm .. does it?





troutie-mtb said:


> And funny you mention it but ploughing through the viscous clay had me overheating


Yeah. I was being a smartarse .. couldn't find a smiley for that.

Looks amazing though. Nice job as usual.

I have this mental image of one section of the UK being visible from the International Space Station solely as a result of all the Trout Lights being turned on simultaneously.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

glowinthedark said:


> I am soooo far out of my area of expertise (not that I really have one) ... BUT ... just coz the slot drill is 3mm doesn't mean the spacing between the slots has to be 3mm .. does it?


No, the thickness of the fins can be less than 3mm but the gap between them can't be. Given the overall length would be to suit the number of leds / lenses this will determine the number of fins that can be cut into it. I think Mr Perfecto, sorry Troutie, will like to keep them fairly even from a visual perspective so it then comes down to a matter of only being able to get so many in the given space.

The other thing is, the thinner the fin, the more noticeable it is when they are slightly different thicknesses. I speak from experience on this one, yet another fugly that will never be seen


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## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

emu26 said:


> No, the thickness of the fins can be less than 3mm but the gap between them can't be.


I re-read my post and must now apologise for the desperately bad wording.

"Gaps between slots" = "fin width"

(not that it matters)



emu26 said:


> The other thing is, the thinner the fin, the more noticeable it is when they are slightly different thicknesses. I speak from experience on this one, yet another fugly that will never be seen


Thanks for the insight. Like I said, I know so little about this that to say I know nothing is big-noting myself. Having said that .. would the knurling idea be a useful one? I know lathe type people have told me there are little tools to do it, so a consistent pattern is easy to achieve, and it would certainly increase surface area.

Here is some seat of the pants stuff ... I don't have anything knurled to hand, but they result is basically little pyramid shapes .. yes?

Apparently the surface area of a pyramid is










Now, bear with me, the increase in surface area if a surface is knurled, as opposed to flat, can be conveniently be expressed as a ratio of the surface area of a pyramid compared to that of a square, like so:

surface area increase = (2*b*s + b*b) / b*b

(where b*b is "b-squared")

So

surface area increase = 2s / b + 1

So the amount of surface area increase depends on the ratio of the length of the pyramid face to the length of the side of the pyramid. If we assume s = b (in the right ball park) then

surface area increase = 3

(i.e. 300% increase in surface area)

How does this compare to slots? The increase in surface area of a slot is the area of the side walls. If we use Troutie's example (but assume the slots are the same depth as they are high, which is not necessarily true, but makes it easier to think about) then the surface area increase is 2 (think of a cross section of the slot, before cutting there are two equal areas, after cutting there are four).

If you double the depth of the slot you get a ratio of 3.

What the heck, the maths is like so:

We have some metal of width w, with n slots (width s) of depth d and an equal number of fins of width f.

We won't bother multiplying everything by the length of the metal, it will all wash out in the maths, so the area of the bare metal is w and the area of the slotted metal is

area (slotted) = n*f + n*s + n*2d = n * ( f + n + 2d )

so the ratio of slotted to bare is

surface area increase = n * ( f + s + 2d ) / w

now the area of the bare metal is the area of the tops of the fins and the bottoms of the slots, i.e.

w = n * ( f + s )

plug that back into the surface area equation:

surface area increase = n * ( f + s + 2d ) / n * ( f + s ) = 1 + 2d / ( f + s )

WTF?!?! I hear you say. Well indeed. Some examples help.

For the case where f = s (the slots are the same width as the fins, approximately what Troutie has)

surface area increase = 1 + d / s

So if the depth of the slot is the same as the width (d=s) then we get back the thought experiment above, surface area increase is 2. If we double the depth, the increase is 3.

What if Troutie increased the number of slots as I suggested? Let's pretend he could halve the width of his slots, so f = s / 2, and

surface area increase = 1 + 3d / 2s

So if the depth of the slot is the same as the width (d=s) the surface area increase is 2.5.

(if any of this tosh is wrong, please feel free to correct it)

This is a helpful result. My suggestion to increase the number of slots is stupid. Increasin g their depth is way more effective. There might be a practical and aesthetic limit to the depth of the fins, and if this is the case then knurling looks an attractive alternative.


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Plus 1 to everything glowinthedark says about a) knurling, and b) deeper fins.

I'm no rocket-surgeon, but the maths looked pretty right to me.
I agree that increasing the fin's aspect-ratio (ie. height:width ratio) will certainly yield more surface-area.
Likewise, a knurled surface will yield a useful increase in surface-area too.
*But* remember we're talking about convection-cooled bike-lights here, not fan-cooled CPU heatsinks (or whatever). So my gut tells me that a super-agressive fin design won't necessarily perform as well in still-air (which is when you need cooling most) when compared with the forced-ventilation case.
Also, vertical fins (especially on top of the housing) would typically perform better than horizontal fins.
Thoughts?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> If thats the crappy mini mill you have I want to swap garages. Hell, even if its not, I wanta swap anyway
> 
> Can you expand the pics of version 2 so I can see where the lid starts and ends, it will make it easy for me to copy?
> 
> ...


Stu 
it is crappy compared to the 60 year old lathe at the other side 
down to one gear and expecting that to break soon 
yes will do some pics for you 
Copy:arf:
But you are supposed to say wow can I buy one when Deesta does a run on his CNC machines.

======

Glowinthedark

The spacing is just chance on my behalf the led cavitly is 60mm wide 
the milling cutter is 3mm and 3 full turns on the crosslide wheel = 6 mm 
so it was easy for me to index it correctly for each fin 
and 10 fins = 60 mm plus the extra at the sides 
it sort of just happened that way

I am very crap at all the other aspects like tech drawing , and theory ,
and hopless an anything like a cad software .
I wish I wasnt as it would save me so much time and raw materials.

My working method is look at the leds and optics . measure them 
then stare at the lump of ali for a while , and then just start removing metal 
and the design is very dynamic and evolves as work progresses ,

I can read you post there and even understand most of it .

knurling yes I can see the advantage there .

thinner fins and more of them do as Stu comments look terrible if not all even 
and I like to have good mass in the light also it gives you some time for it to heat up when stopped like a buffer ,

========

gillestugan

Ha Ha you are correct about crazy .

last nights posting was like the Trout fishing for the angler 
I am still giggling about it


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## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

hootsmon said:


> *But* remember we're talking about convection-cooled bike-lights here, not fan-cooled CPU heatsinks (or whatever). So my gut tells me that a super-agressive fin design won't necessarily perform as well in still-air (which is when you need cooling most) when compared with the forced-ventilation case.
> 
> Thoughts?


I'd be inclined to think the opposite. There are plenty of passive chip heatsinks that are spikey little beggars. Alot of space between the fins would be the go for setting up decent convective currents .. no?

Probably impossible to say unless someone modelled it properly. The lack of knurled chip heatsinks tends to suggest to me that they aren't too crash hot in a still-air situation. But I think the area that is of most concern is not still air, but slowly moving air on hill climbs (and Trout-deep mud slogs). In this case the convective cooling is still dominant, but not efficient enough. As long as there were no funky boundary layer effects with knurled surfaces then it should be pretty effective (boundary layer effect = still layer of air "attached" to the surface).


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*pics of the Troutfin lite*


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## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> The spacing is just chance on my behalf the led cavitly is 60mm wide
> the milling cutter is 3mm and 3 full turns on the crosslide wheel = 6 mm
> so it was easy for me to index it correctly for each fin
> and 10 fins = 60 mm plus the extra at the sides
> it sort of just happened that way


Fair enough. If I was you I wouldn' t be changing anything! You are getting great results the way you work now.



troutie-mtb said:


> I can read you post there and even understand most of it .


It was a useful exercise and the results surprised me, so I am suspicious I have made a mistake.

One of the more eyebrow raising results was as the effective fin width approaches zero (i.e. really effing thin) the surface area increase ratio approaches 3 for the case where the slot depth is the same as the width of the slot.

Now this seems like rubbish to me as the slot width is increasing, so must the depth for this case. I'm sure I've stuffed something up. I have a hidden assumption in there somewhere that I am too stupid to figure out .. probably shouldn't have the slot width and fin width as separate variables (they are related by the total width after all).





troutie-mtb said:


> knurling yes I can see the advantage there .


Do you have the tools for knurling on your lathe? I was told by an engineer here that it is very easy for him to do. Might be easier than fins (the bottom ones are good for airflow underneath though) and just as effective.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

glowinthedark said:


> Do you have the tools for knurling on your lathe? I was told by an engineer here that it is very easy for him to do. Might be easier than fins (the bottom ones are good for airflow underneath though) and just as effective.


I have no knurling tools and I do know it needs quite a bit of grunt in the machine to do properly.
my lathe has the grunt but I cant do non round things

The minimill it would be the death off I am sure .

The bottom fins were an design improvement from the mk1 and does give allround airflow


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Just my 2 cents regarding knurling:

In my 20 years as an engineer, I've yet to come across a tool that will knurl on flat bar. The way it works is by forcing a form tool into a rotating bar. You can get tools now that will cut a knurl rather than form it but it's still only anygood on round bar. 

Aslo, I wouldn't have thought that you would gain much in the way of surface area. Most knurling is around 0.4mm deep.


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

deesta said:


> Aslo, I wouldn't have thought that you would gain much in the way of surface area. Most knurling is around 0.4mm deep.


Agreed, knurling isn't the way to go.

The simplest thing for Troutie would be to make more cuts at right-angle, thus creating little pillars.

Even better would be to fabricate something like this heatsink. That little 25mm square device is good for 10C/W in still air - multiply that by 4 to get a rough approximation to the top surface of Troutie's light, and you have massive cooling ability. That's what I'm thinking of doing if I use the little Hammond case for my version of this light.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

All this talk and it sounds like Trouties light has a heat problem

It kept stone cold last night even on the slow mud crawl and even when the triple mce had tripped.

There comes a point when losing mass is a bad thing 
extreme case take some aluminium foil and plase a hot thing on it the heat doesnot spread out that much.and nor does it aid it cooling much.

also what you all are forgetting is I am using the creme of drivers the maxflex 
and it will look after the leds if you ask it.

Now you have made me go out to get a DMM with thermal sensing .


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

It looks to me, with my limited knowledge, that there should be enough heatsinking. And if you don't need to drive them that hard, heat shouldn't be an issue


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

neilt said:


> The simplest thing for Troutie would be to make more cuts at right-angle, thus creating little pillars.


This doesn't increase surface area if your fins are the same size as the gaps between them. I did the sums before I built mine, thinking it would increase surface area but you net out the same, with less mass, and more corners to cut yourself. As mentioned earlier, the best way is to increase the depth of the gaps, which is another way of saying increase the height of the fins.

I'm with Troutie on this one, in George we trust.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

The MKII version of the case looks much more cohesive. With the extra sinking and a shade more mass around the ends of the optic hole, this is going to be one cool light. 

Nice work and thanks for posting it!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> This doesn't increase surface area if your fins are the same size as the gaps between them. I did the sums before I built mine, thinking it would increase surface area but you net out the same, with less mass, and more corners to cut yourself. As mentioned earlier, the best way is to increase the depth of the gaps, which is another way of saying increase the height of the fins.
> 
> I'm with Troutie on this one, in George we trust.


Hells bells I had to draw that out to see what you meant

You are right there Stu but it had me dead confused.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

How about different grades of aluminum. Different heat transmission rates too I bet.:madman: 
Keep it simple. If the light doesn't shut down or melt my helmet from the heat, then I am happy. If the light does either then bigger fins/mass or I need to ride faster. :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

It is a good job I wanted a new multimeter you have tipped me into getting one

Hey they are dead cool with the temp probe .
I have wandered around the house measuring temps of things .
but stopped short of measuring my own body.

For this test this is as scientific as it gets .
I had holes drilled for the bolts and these are 3mm from the back of the led boards 
so 5 mm from the led it self

The ambient temp is 14c and this was also the starting temp at the back of the leds 
maxflex is set to 60 degrees thermal trip and 700 ma
Troutie time lapse piccy taking at approx 30 second intervals

I will let the pictures tell the story and see what the number crunchers come up with .
but I am very happy with the results .
I have my own theorys but will save them untill later

https://s199.photobucket.com/flash/remix/player.swf?videoURL=https://vid199.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/amticoman/HEAT%20TEST/626f2d3e.pbr&hostname=stream199.photobucket.com


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

That's very impressive Chris...Just moving along slowly should act like a low fan  

No problems with heat at all then...


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

Looks good to me, Chris.

What was the soundtrack? It sounds like some band I know but can't place it.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> For this test this is as scientific as it gets .
> I had holes drilled for the bolts and these are 3mm from the back of the led boards
> so 5 mm from the led it self


So your temp probe was actually closer to the LED's than the maxflex is (since in the first model the maxflex is mounted on its own block and is some distance from the LED's).

Are you thinking the maxflex tripped itself and it wasn't a function of the LED's at all?

What did the surface temp of the light feel like while all this was going on. With a core temp of 40 deg i would expect that the surface temp would be quite a bit less.

thanks for running the test


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

My first thought was that it was due to bad thermal conductivity in the maxflex chip. This makes the chip more than 15 degrees hotter inside than on the outside, where it is connected to the heatsink via the board. So when the heatsink reaches 45 degrees the chip is already over 60 degrees inside. but... that doesnt make any sense as the temperature sensing is performed within the uController. The uController doesn't generate any heat itself (almost), so it shouldnt get hot from inside. 
Probably the whole board gets over 60 and the uController only senses the temperature on the board and is not effected by the heatsink? 
You may keep it open and touch the board with your finger "probe" to see if it much hotter than the housing.

Edit: I just realized by looking at your pictures that the ucontroller doesn´t seem to be in contact with the housing. This would explain it as you easily may get higher airtemps inside the housing as the diode and the inductor also produce heat, and those are not cooled by the heatsink.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Right I will present the data I have gathered.
this is quite lucky that the maxflex is AA epoxied to a block of ali 
which is bolted and thremal paste to the housing at the back 
My reasoning was to get it on the housing least affected by the leds 
as it is working quite hard and needs its own sink 

I removed the bolt and was able to get to 2 mm from the maxflex sink area so probed that in another test . 

then I have a M5 threaded hole in the base also so could probe there and get an air temp 
in side the housing .

First test the maxflex tripped and the probe was in the solid heatsink behind the leds 

the temp was 44 c at what should be the hottest place times dont matter here .

second test when it had returned to ambient temp with the probe near the maxflex base

it tripped at 43 c in a similar time as the first test a check of the hole behind the leds said 43 c 

also the exterier of the housing was 40 c 

next I tried again with the probe in the mount hole just in the air in side the housing 

again it tripped in a similar time as the first 2 tests but the air temp inside was 
49 c .

a quick check of the other points and their temps were similar to the first 2 tests.

I have seen some thing from George somewhere saying the chip that gets hot is near the IC that monitors heat and there is a lag in sensing .

My theory is the housing is shedding heat all the time and conducting heat away from the leds fairly quick but air is a good insulater and the maxflex chip is warming the already warm air which is struggling to shed it the ali housing is nearly a constant temp 
so allowing for lag the and the size of the chips it is reaching the 60c limit in the warm air .and tripping .

so the leds are never in a risky situation allowing for the same lag and even being generous .

you must remember this is inside a house with still air 

when I put the fan on it rapidly brought the temp down even on low air speed 

also after the time lapse pics I left the light on for a further 20 mins on high with the fan running slowly and the temperature stabilised at 27 degrees and never tripped


That is my take on the data collected , but then I am no thermal dynamics expert .


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

The uController with the temp sensor is the 8 pin chip next to your maxflex heatsink, so you may try to make a heatsink that covers both the heatsink area and the chip to make the sensing more accurate.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

gillestugan said:


> The uController with the temp sensor is the 8 pin chip next to your maxflex heatsink, so you may try to make a heatsink that covers both the heatsink area and the chip to make the sensing more accurate.


My heatsink is exactly the same size as the copper area on the maxflex

I have just done a test with the bolts removed and whipped the top off as soon as it tripped to check the maxflex I had to do it 3 times and put a tiny blob of compound to gat a consisant reading and it cools real fast 
but it did read over 50c each time and cooled in seconds to 40

so if I want to keep the maxflex cold run with the top off but then fry the leds

I think it is working just fine and tripping with a good safety margin for the maxflex and the leds .

again this is inside a house. on max power.with the maxflex set @ 60 c

when you can set it to 90c

50c may trigger too many trips to be annoying

removing the lid did make the leds temp soar rapidly though


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> My heatsink is exactly the same size as the copper area on the maxflex
> 
> I have just done a test with the bolts removed and whipped the top off as soon as it tripped to check the maxflex I had to do it 3 times and put a tiny blob of compound to gat a consisant reading and it cools real fast
> but it did read over 50c each time and cooled in seconds to 40
> ...


That is some nice investigation trout. Good to know that LED's are nice and safe.

Interesting to see that the lid was so useful in heat dispersion and that the LED temp soared without it on.


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Yes, you will be just fine with programming a higher trigger temperature. It is only the leds and the switching regulator that is easily damaged by heat, an those are obviously running cool. I am very happy to see your compact housing is able to handle the heat so well. 45 degrees when used in 20+ degrees is very good.


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## dsvilko (Dec 23, 2008)

Just something from another thread to keep in mind...
Even if you managed to put the temperature probe directly on the back side of the star, the emitter temperature would be _minimally_ about 35-40 degrees C above the measured temperature (this is not a wild guess but taken from the Cree XR-E documentation). If the probe is somewhere further out on the heat sink then temperature difference can easily grow to 50C or more. So, if you measured 45C the emitter could easily be close to 100C (not yet alarming but you are starting to lose those lumens).


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> My heatsink is exactly the same size as the copper area on the maxflex
> 
> I have just done a test with the bolts removed and whipped the top off as soon as it tripped to check the maxflex I had to do it 3 times and put a tiny blob of compound to gat a consisant reading and it cools real fast
> but it did read over 50c each time and cooled in seconds to 40
> ...


Mate forget all of this, go back and look at your little vid.

Stabilising at 28 Degrees with a fan on low - you've got to be absolutely wrapped with that. Just put the lid on and get out and ride and enjoy yet another masterpiece.

George has spoken many times about how the sensor works, the effect the ambient air inside the housing has on the temp, the distance from the leds etc etc. You have nailed this first time mate, well Ok, maybe mk2 is the better looking one. Just enjoy it and stop questioning what is clearly working.

For everyone else that is going to build their own version and are concerned about the temp, you can heatsink the top of the chip that is mounted on the other side of the little gold area of the maxflex, sorry I forget what the chip is called. This will improve heatsinking of the maxflex slightly, but as Troutie has eluded to, this is then at the risk of over heating leds.

BTW Chris, couldn't you have found a MM with a smaller display panel. It must be a right PITA luggin that thing around everywhere


----------



## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

emu26 said:


> Just enjoy it and stop questioning what is clearly working.


+1 for that!



emu26 said:


> you can heatsink the top of the chip that is mounted on the other side of the little gold area of the maxflex, sorry I forget what the chip is called.


That is the microcontroller that handles the different levels as well as containing the temperature sensor. connecting it to the heatsink will make it sense the led temperature better.


----------



## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

deesta said:


> Just my 2 cents regarding knurling:
> 
> In my 20 years as an engineer, I've yet to come across a tool that will knurl on flat bar. The way it works is by forcing a form tool into a rotating bar. You can get tools now that will cut a knurl rather than form it but it's still only anygood on round bar.
> 
> Aslo, I wouldn't have thought that you would gain much in the way of surface area. Most knurling is around 0.4mm deep.


Thanks for the input. Apparently it is possible to knurl a flat surface:



> Yeah, you can roll a knurl on a surface ("flat" or "face" knurling). If
> you're going to do a lot of it, it really should be done with a special
> rolling machine. But for "now and then" applications it is routinely done
> in a vertical mill (Bridgeport). They chuck the knurling tool into the mill
> ...


but like I said, I know less than nothing.

I have made mistakes with the maths for the slots, but the conclusions about the pyramid are sound I think. The increase in surface area is totally dependent on the ratio of the length of a pyramid face to the edge length of the pyramid. Even if the knurling is very shallow as long as it is also very closely spaced then the surface area improvement will be the same.

Make sense?

If it was easy to do then knurling would be a no-brainer for DIY-Dinotte style lights for example. A simple method to increase the effective surface area to 300% of the original.

I have done a little googling and knurling is something that some engineers do to increase heat transfer in pipes (on the inside, clearly). So it is not unheard of.

Basically I was hoping we could have some rules of thumb (like the 1sq inch/W rule) so people didn't bother over-engineering their cooling, or at least get the best bang for their buck (where buck = spousal time credits).


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes I think I am very happy with the mk 1 and am sure the the mk 2 will work just as well 
there is going to be a working mk2 sat on my bars .

And if Deesta does a a few on his cnc machines these will be even betterer 
and anodised black .

The only tweek I am going to try is to swop 1 or 2 optics for an eliptical when Neilt`s order comes in from cutters .

I might need to get a dentist to extract one of the optics though 

Oh and one desigh change put the lid underneath then no screws on top 
probably get better finning that way too .


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Oh and one desigh change put the lid underneath then no screws on top
> probably get better finning that way too .


That was going to be one of two changes that I intended to make, the other was switching a couple of the leds but I'll start a seperate thread on that shortly as I don't want to hijack one of your brilliant build threads.

Nice work mate.

BTW, I previously said get out and ride and enjoy what you have built. I was wrong, you need to get back in the shed and see if you can come up with something better for us all to drool over


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> That was going to be one of two changes that I intended to make, the other was switching a couple of the leds but I'll start a seperate thread on that shortly as I don't want to hijack one of your brilliant build threads.
> 
> Nice work mate.
> 
> BTW, I previously said get out and ride and enjoy what you have built. I was wrong, you need to get back in the shed and see if you can come up with something better for us all to drool over


Now I am curious " switching a couple of leds ???"
look forward to the new thread .

Riding is pure enjoyment as is shed time but I am thinking I may be falling of the edge of the envelope and new designs will be slow in coming .

I have 4 mces to use up and sell to buy some more XPEs


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*The correct beam shots but in my garden*

While I am on a roll here are some comparison shots at the different current settings 
of the maxflex .

I removed the first shots because of doubt in my tempory driver setup 
but now with a brand new Maxflex there can be no doubt.










Ouch I put that shot in because it was shot @ the mtbr setting 6secs @ f4

I had to alter the settings quite a bit to get the burnout gone.

the camere settings for the next set of shots is 3.2 secs @ f7.1

maxflex @ 700ma / 500ma / 350ma hi setting


























then same order but maxflex low


























It is 12 metres to the corner of the fence
and for the beam angle finders out there each fence panel is 1.8 mtres wide

These show the superb beam with little spill , will be interesting to see it with an eliptical in there too .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*just experimenting with the 3 photos*


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## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Fantastic stuff - looks amazing for the size.

I would be interested in buying one of the CNC'd production housings, even more so if there's an option to get one with all the soldering done (in exchange for a contribution to a beer / bike fund - I've killed too many bits myself already!).


----------



## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

That poor little potted tree :sad:......it may not survive after the blowtorching it took in that first photo! 

LED Supply tells me they will have the XP-E and optics soon  Any other US sources currently? I don't want to deal with ordering them from the other side of the earth....they're made here, so why aren't they _sold_ here? 

JZ


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

JimZinVT said:


> LED Supply tells me they will have the XP-E and optics soon  Any other US sources currently? I don't want to deal with ordering them from the other side of the earth....they're made here, so why aren't they _sold_ here?
> 
> JZ


Er, they are quite likely to be made on the other side of the earth in China:
http://www.electronicstalk.com/news/crv/crv118.html


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Troutie. I've fettled 2 of your early proto housings last year for the 3-up cutter kits. All still in weekly use  Thanks

It's been great this year to not lust after the newest latest lights... until now.

If you and Deesta get some housings sorted I'd definitely take one off your hands. Keep up the good work fellas!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

davew255 said:


> Troutie. I've fettled 2 of your early proto housings last year for the 3-up cutter kits. All still in weekly use  Thanks
> 
> It's been great this year to not lust after the newest latest lights... until now.
> 
> If you and Deesta get some housings sorted I'd definitely take one off your hands. Keep up the good work fellas!


Cheers dave 
have you any pics

Deesta has my prototype with a view of improving the engineering and manufacture
and then hopefully they will become available along side his housing .

anyone interested get in touch with Deesta or Troutie.


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Attached a couple of photos of my builds. My first time posting pics so hope it works and doesn't mess up your thread.

Using Lumi style power connector and switch: very easy to get hold of & cheap. Been totally reliable except the rubber boots on the switches wear through after a while. I really like having the power connector plug into the back of the light: neat & really easy to use.

I'll drop you a mail Chris: please let me know when housings are ready.

Dave


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks Dave 
I just wanted to have a look at the early stuff again 
They look well used 
Have they been reliable


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> Thanks Dave
> I just wanted to have a look at the early stuff again
> They look well used
> Have they been reliable


Not particularly well used in the photos: this was them about a year ago: they've had a lot more use since but still look pretty good.

Troutie: what's the longest you've kept a lamp? 

Totally reliable, never missed a beat in almost 2 long seasons (have kids so night-riding September - May) of once or twice a week use. Plenty of stacks in that time, and the helmet lamps always smashing into low branches, but no damage at all.

Only problem was with the initial build when the bFlex was damaged when it shorted with the (+15V) casing due to the power socket design (centre positive solved that).


----------



## SkUG (Feb 19, 2008)

You're not the Davew i know are you?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

davew255 said:


> Troutie: what's the longest you've kept a lamp?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*New beamshots This light gets better*

I have recieved some carclo eliptical 10mm optics ( Thanks Neilt ) And good luck with your build

so I have just swopped a couple of the narrows out and elips in and this just gets better 
it keeps the throw and fills the sides 

---------6 XPE WITH 6 CARCLO 10MM NARROW OPTICS-------------------------------------------------------------6 XPE WITH 4 CARCLO 10 NARROW & 2 ELIPTICALS OPTICS


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

YES! That's what I want! :rockon:


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> I have recieved some carclo eliptical 10mm optics ( Thanks Neilt ) And good luck with your build


Looking very good, Chris.


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## mr-dither (Jul 14, 2008)

Oh hell yeah !!!!

when your organised put me on the dibs list )))

6 XPE WITH 4 CARCLO 10 NARROW & 2 ELIPTICALS OPTICS
would be the preferd optics 

what is the battery set up with this beast mr.trout ? (14.8v etc ?)


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## TheBigYin (Sep 29, 2008)

It's not that good a light - you never saw them nick your Bike...


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

TheBigYin said:


> It's not that good a light - you never saw them nick your Bike...


Great spot BigYin.....


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Troutie, your stuff just gets better....the elliptical optics do indeed add another dimension to the light, however since this was a suppose to be a helmet light (?) I still prefer all the light being thrown into the distance. Now if this was to be a bar light, the set-up with the ellipticals would absolutely be what the Doctor ordered. Now I can't wait to see someone build something with two of the triple XP-Es. (...when or if they are available )


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

TheBigYin said:


> It's not that good a light - you never saw them nick your Bike...





deesta said:


> Great spot BigYin.....


Go easy on him boys, he must be in mourning.

I would suggest the problem wasn't the light, they clearly took the bike when the light was out and he was changing lenses trail side.

Not to fear, I will be watching this space to see what sort of a frame he can make himself out of the parts in his shed. No point buying a commercial frame now that you have both a lathe AND a mill is there Mr Trout?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:lol::lol:

Ha Ha , 
No the bike was nicked while I was sweeping the leaves up, Those Elves are mischievous little devils.
,Got have nice tidy trails
As this must be the best known bit of woodland in the world by now .


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## kangaroomadman (Nov 19, 2008)

Its certainly the best lit one!


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Troutie is the artist here. Thank you for thinking outside the box as usual.
Here is a standard light,P7 left XPE right, body design from my other post with the 4 XPE emitters (XPEWHT-L1-WG0-R2-0-01 R2 Flux WG Tint) and the 4 Carlco XP 10417 Tight Narrow.
Driving with Buckpuck 1000 mA 2p2s. So 500 mA per emitter.
Blows away the P7 and the MCE at 700 mA.
Build difficulty is also significantly higher.


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Nice work Tex! That sure is a punchy little beam compared to your MCE's etc. It will also be super efficient at only 500 ma. It's a win - win!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Ace post Odtexas. Thanks .

As I have blown my light building budget I can only watch as the builds trickle through.

We all have been waiting for some triples to appear , but your quad is even better 
right from when I started the 6 I have wondered how 4 would compare to a MCE/P7 as a like for like shootout 

and you have done the biz .

Build difficulty higher , Is that because they are little fiddly beggers .

:thumbsup: forced air cooling too


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Thanks gents.........

Darn buggers are tiny. So soldering in the bridges is challenging. Then its trying to get all the optics and their legs aligned. Became more difficult as the bottle got lighter.  









I sawed a section off of some T slot for the forced air cooling. No mill here. 









Building bodies tomorrow it looks like.


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## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

Harpoon said:


> Fantastic stuff - looks amazing for the size.
> 
> I would be interested in buying one of the CNC'd production housings, even more so if there's an option to get one with all the soldering done (in exchange for a contribution to a beer / bike fund - I've killed too many bits myself already!).


+1

I started reading from the last page... wasn't understanding the scope, so I went to the front of the thread... and I about crapped myself. This light is AMAZING.

I've never done a DIY yet of any type (read: light newb). But you folks are such an inspiration and help, I'm getting ready to pull the trigger. Just a matter of which design.

But Troutie... you've set the bar high. Really high. Great job so far and continued good luck with it.









PS -- The above slayed me. That post was comic genius.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

racerdave said:


> +1
> 
> I started reading from the last page... wasn't understanding the scope, so I went to the front of the thread... and I about crapped myself. This light is AMAZING.
> 
> ...


Thank You Racerdave.

I dont think I will ever get to the bar again never mind over it .
Just wait till you see the CNC d version that Deesta is doing should be sweet.

Yes I dont know where the comic post came from but I still chuckle at some of the replies.

I do wonder how many XPE`s have gone out the door @ Cutters since this thread started.

Hell Tex are you doing lights for everyone

and that section looks to be ready made housing


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

The one of the left has 4 XPE emitters (XPEWHT-L1-WG0-R2-0-01 R2 Flux WG Tint) and the 4 Carlco XP 10417 Tight Narrow. Driving with Fatman (boosting this one) 1000 mA 2p2s. So 500 mA per emitter. 
Light on the right is MCE4WT-A2-0000-000M10 Cool white, 430 min lumens,WC Tint with a CMC-RS lens. Driving with Buckpuck 1000 mA 2p2s. So 500 mA per emitter.









4 XPE with Fatman








MCE with CMC-RS








MCE with CMC-M









There is central artifact in the RS. That classic + shape of the 4 emitters. It is noticeable, but not too bothersome.


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## il2mb (Jan 27, 2005)

odtexas,

I saw that artifact when using the CMC-RS too. I much prefer the CMC-D

Great pics. The MCE does look a little brighter than the XP-E. Which light would you say illuminates the yard with more natural of a color. Looking at the pics I think the XPE makes the grass in the foreground look more natural.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

yes As il2mb says great pics.

and where as the MCE looks to be brighter there it is out on the trail when the MCE runs out of reach and the XPE doesnt that is what I like about them .

Also in an email from Mark @ Cutters 
" I hope to have triple XPE MCPCB here this week and optics in 5 way(penta)"


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Also in an email from Mark @ Cutters
> " I hope to have triple XPE MCPCB here this week and optics in 5 way(penta)"


That is what I am waiting for. They should fit nicely into some little torch heads I have laying around.

pardon my ignorance but what is a 5 way optic? Is he saying there should be optics of 5 different beam angles to choose from?


----------



## epicxt (Dec 24, 2007)

*Wow!*



glowinthedark said:


> I have made mistakes with the maths for the slots, but the conclusions about the pyramid are sound I think. The increase in surface area is totally dependent on the ratio of the length of a pyramid face to the edge length of the pyramid. Even if the knurling is very shallow as long as it is also very closely spaced then the surface area improvement will be the same.
> 
> Make sense?
> 
> If it was easy to do then knurling would be a no-brainer for DIY-Dinotte style lights for example. A simple method to increase the effective surface area to 300% of the original.


First off, I came to the party late and am really impressed with the developments going on here. I just spent the last half hour reading through from the beginning and as someone who has some nice HID lights that have batteries that are quickly going bad I'm interested in inexpensive (relatively) lights for 24-hour races.

Regarding the surface area ratios of knurled:flat I have a quick question. Please feel free to correct me as I am probably missing something really elementary.

The way I understand it, we are comparing the total surface area of a square-based pyramid to the surface area of a flat surface, i.e. (2bs+b*b)/(b*b). There seems to me to be an error in this way of thinking. If we are truly comparing exposed surface area of the material in question, shouldn't the base of the pyramid be eliminated from the surface area, as this isn't an exposed area? If this were the case the ratio would be 2bs/(b*b) and if b is roughly equivalent to s, then our ratio would reduce to 2:1, or a 200% increase in surface area.

Again, I'm probably missing something but it seemed kind of wonky to me.

Lovin' your guys' work!:thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> That is what I am waiting for. They should fit nicely into some little torch heads I have laying around.
> 
> pardon my ignorance but what is a 5 way optic? Is he saying there should be optics of 5 different beam angles to choose from?


I think it means these Salty


----------



## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

So theoretically, an achesalot style housing could fit 12 XPEs... they would have to be driven below 700ma each for heat concerns, but still.... that would be just a bit of punch for the downhills! What would be usable for a prolonged time? 350mA or not even that much? I may have to reconsider my dual MCE design I've been planning and go for 6 or more XPEs!


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Hack On Wheels said:


> So theoretically, an achesalot style housing could fit 12 XPEs... they would have to be driven below 700ma each for heat concerns, but still.... that would be just a bit of punch for the downhills! What would be usable for a prolonged time? 350mA or not even that much? I may have to reconsider my dual MCE design I've been planning and go for 6 or more XPEs!


Achesalot has 2 x MCE = 8 dies in his most recent model at 500mA with a few cooling fins on the design which seems to handle the heat pretty well. Using P=VI
(12.4vf x 2) x 0.5A= 6.2 W.

If you assume 6.2 W is the max it can handle (which I am not saying it is) then you would end up with:

6.2= (3.2x12)xI
I=6.2/(3.2x12)
I =0.164A

now I don't think 164A is going to be particularly exciting so lets double it just for the hell of it and say 350mA sounds fine


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hack On Wheels said:


> So theoretically, an achesalot style housing could fit 12 XPEs... they would have to be driven below 700ma each for heat concerns, but still.... that would be just a bit of punch for the downhills! What would be usable for a prolonged time? 350mA or not even that much? I may have to reconsider my dual MCE design I've been planning and go for 6 or more XPEs!


Sounds right for an achesalot style . 
I have no experience on the cooling of his builds I am sure he will be able to say .

but in my light the 6 xpes @ 350 it does not even get warm on the desk

I would put the 6 xpe light up against a dual mce and there would be a good chance it would equal its scores .

I have 4 MCE sat here and would gladly swop them for XPEs if I could .
they were going to be in a quad MCE / Hipflex / stem mounted light 
But I have lost interest in them .


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> I think it means these Salty


Whatever happened to the carlco 20 mm triples? I haven't seen that they have come into stock although they are listed on cutters site. Has anyone tried them or was the beam angle looking too wide? I am thinking the 35 mm ledil optics are probably going to be a bit to physically large big for my plans. Any updates on them WeLight?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Whatever happened to the carlco 20 mm triples? I haven't seen that they have come into stock although they are listed on cutters site. Has anyone tried them or was the beam angle looking too wide? I am thinking the 35 mm ledil optics are probably going to be a bit to physically large big for my plans. Any updates on them WeLight?


Salty The Torch master .

The triple optics are in stock I believe 
they were waiting for the triple mcpcb boards 
for the leds . to go with them .


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Salty The Torch master .
> .


I have a little pile of torches waiting to go 

I can't seem to construct a neat enough housing without them  They are all gaps and butchery...


----------



## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Sounds right for an achesalot style .
> I have no experience on the cooling of his builds I am sure he will be able to say .
> 
> but in my light the 6 xpes @ 350 it does not even get warm on the desk
> ...


Good stuff, I have a bunch of square tubing still, and I have an already made achesalot, so I know what I might do if I get bored with it!

I was thinking 12 XPE would fit in a triple achesalot style housing... and I don't like the looks of the epoxied on heat sink fins, so.... haha, it might get a little hot even at only 350mA! I think I might have to wait to try and machine my XPE light then.

You've lost interest in your MCEs? Well, I'm always open to donations...


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Chris,

I may be tempted to take 3 of the MCE's off you for my triple....done to your mods :thumbsup: 

I think that plus a 6-er XPE should be about perfect


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

The MCE's and P7's are wonderful out to about 50 ft on the trail. No lens that I have come across extends that range. They all look super bright but no significant illumination beyond 50 ft in the real world.

I like these XPE's color. The real strength is their throw/rebound. With the XPE's the amount of return light from reflection is significantly stronger. It is that intensity of reflected light that we see as we bike.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

odtexas said:


> The MCE's and P7's are wonderful out to about 50 ft on the trail. No lens that I have come across extends that range. They all look super bright but no significant illumination beyond 50 ft in the real world.
> 
> I like these XPE's color. The real strength is their throw/rebound. With the XPE's the amount of return light from reflection is significantly stronger. It is that intensity of reflected light that we see as we bike.


You could always go the hybrid route of 1 MCE -CMC SS & 2 XPE s


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Troutie

I liked your light when you did the big unveiling. The chassis is the issue for me. I am working with prefabricated bits with minimal modifications. If I ever get a mill then watch out, but for now I like the T-slot and 1 inch square stock from Home Depot.

I like to run the light and battery on the helmet. So 2 to 3 cell Lion batteries (3.7 to 11.1 volts) and a small light head. 4 emitters seems to fit this goal very well giving me smaller light chassis and plenty of light at 500 to 700 mA. Really liking the output of the 500 mA as of late.

XPE gives best results. Cutting edge fun and wow goes to XPE without a doubt.:thumbsup: 

I think the MCE's gives lighting as good as most anyone needs for biking. They are also easier to work with especially when you just have to stick a Boom SS on it.

Just saying if you want to build a good light the MCE's or P7's will fit the bill. If you want to join the lumen arms race  then order your XPE's right now. Operators are standing by.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

odtexas said:


> Troutie
> 
> I liked your light when you did the big unveiling. The chassis is the issue for me. I am working with prefabricated bits with minimal modifications. If I ever get a mill then watch out, but for now I like the T-slot and 1 inch square stock from Home Depot.
> 
> ...


Odtexas I have to agree with every word there specialy the Wow bit

And the XPE R3 is rumoured to be imminent maxing out @ 130lumens @ 350ma 
so the future is bright.


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Will the Troutfin Lite be going into "production " Sir Troutie?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Harpoon said:


> Will the Troutfin Lite be going into "production " Sir Troutie?


The Housing is receiving the attentions of Deesta who will be CNC machining some very soon hopefully .
When I have one and get it anodised then I will advertise them in the classifieds .
I already have orders for 9 and that is before they have been seen .

anyone interested PM me and I will put you on the list 
I cannot say a price yet untill Deesta has made one and worked out a costing .

I have no plans to sell them as complete lights because of warranty issues 
but will build some if requested .

Thank you for your interest


----------



## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

epicxt said:


> Regarding the surface area ratios of knurled:flat I have a quick question. Please feel free to correct me as I am probably missing something really elementary.
> 
> The way I understand it, we are comparing the total surface area of a square-based pyramid to the surface area of a flat surface, i.e. (2bs+b*b)/(b*b). There seems to me to be an error in this way of thinking. If we are truly comparing exposed surface area of the material in question, shouldn't the base of the pyramid be eliminated from the surface area, as this isn't an exposed area? If this were the case the ratio would be 2bs/(b*b) and if b is roughly equivalent to s, then our ratio would reduce to 2:1, or a 200% increase in surface area.
> 
> Again, I'm probably missing something but it seemed kind of wonky to me.


Blame me. You're right. I forgot to take away the surface area of the bottom of the pyramid.

:blush:

So the surface area increase for a knurled surface is 200% (roughly speaking).

I completely ballsed up the bit for slots. But doubling the slots should double the extra surface area, but as a ratio of existing area it depends completely on the depth and number of slots.


----------



## Calina (Apr 8, 2008)

odtexas said:


> Thanks gents.........
> 
> Darn buggers are tiny. So soldering in the bridges is challenging. Then its trying to get all the optics and their legs aligned. Became more difficult as the bottle got lighter.
> 
> ...


I like this section ! What is it? Where did you get it? Would a 10mm optic fit in there without modifications or would it be loose?


----------



## epicxt (Dec 24, 2007)

*Cool...*



glowinthedark said:


> Blame me. You're right. I forgot to take away the surface area of the bottom of the pyramid.
> 
> :blush:
> 
> ...


Just a fresh set of eye-balls looking at the problem. Still, a 200% increase ain't shabby, and if the surface were knurled before the slots were cut...


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Calina

Do a search on ebay for T slot aluminum. Pulls up lots of different styles. This stuff is used for making custom enclosures/racks/whatever. 
This is the 1 inch in height version. You could put one XPE per opening easily. The interior is about 15.5 mm so the only driver in the body would be the micropuck. A 500 mA per emitter would make for a nice light. Center hole allows for a bolt to hold on a front/back cover.
They do make a 1.5 inch version. Would expect interior dimension to be around 20 to 21 mm. That would take an MCE and many different drivers. 
Here is a picture with the 10 mm Carlco XP lens.


----------



## Calina (Apr 8, 2008)

Thank you for the quick answer.

It is pretty hard to look for something when you don't even know what it's called...
Now at least I have a name for it. I'll try to find it locally as the shipping cost on ebay for this kind of item is usually a killer.


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

*il2mb wrote*


> odtexas,
> 
> I saw that artifact when using the CMC-RS too. I much prefer the CMC-D
> 
> Great pics. The MCE does look a little brighter than the XP-E. Which light would you say illuminates the yard with more natural of a color. Looking at the pics I think the XPE makes the grass in the foreground look more natural.


Sorry, missed you question on the first read. The XPE gives the best throw and color. Color is based on Bin but the throw is all about the optics and dice size I think.


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

*Who would like to see some photo's of the CNC'd prototype??*

I've had a chance to do the prototype........nearly complete, just a few slots to put in :thumbsup:

Would anyone like to see some photo's???


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Pictures? Yes please


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

MMM yes Please from me too


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Here you go.....:thumbsup:


----------



## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

deesta said:


> Here you go.....:thumbsup:


Cute!

I feel a rebuild coming on


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have been out and just come back 
Looking pretty good and made out of gold too that should be ok for heat 

What have you got left to do .
the slots for the strap 

What happens at the front for a cover .


Nice clean lines I want to touch it now :incazzato:


----------



## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Looking pretty good and made out of gold too that should be ok for heat


According to http://www.goldprice.org/gold-price-per-gram.html the cost of gold is about £20 pr gram, so now we can calculate the cost of Troutie-lite:
1300 gram gold x £20/gram + £50 for CNC machining = £26050


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Geir68 said:


> According to http://www.goldprice.org/gold-price-per-gram.html the cost of gold is about £20 pr gram, so now we can calculate the cost of Troutie-lite:
> 1300 gram gold x £20/gram + £50 for CNC machining = £26050


OK that seems a fair price ready to take your orders I will knock off the £50 machining cost as that will be covered by the swarfe scrap value

contact me in nigeria for payment details .


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I just JIMP. I can't imagine not setting all the lads up with these. 1000+ lumens, a little bigger than a deck of cards and a great beam pattern. Oh my yes...


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

What a magic little light! Simply put - one of the best. Keep up the good work boys!


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Not too bad weight wise..gonna save a bit more too :thumbsup:


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Looks superb!


----------



## TOMMO (Dec 12, 2008)

That looks fookin awsome!!
Tommo.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Absolutly ace work there Steve Thanks.

When are you going to be in a position to run a few off 
after your housing run


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Thanks Chris,

I'm pretty pleased with how it's come out. I've strill got the slots to do on the sides, the slots for the helmet strap and the slot for the lense cover. Do you think it would be better to fix the lense cover with a couple of screws or just some silicon sealant?

Would you like to have the finished job in your hands to have a play with before I start a run? I'd be able to fit the in fairly quickly, depending on what you wanted to do...

Steve


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Thanks Chris,
> 
> I'm pretty pleased with how it's come out. I've strill got the slots to do on the sides, the slots for the helmet strap and the slot for the lense cover. Do you think it would be better to fix the lense cover with a couple of screws or just some silicon sealant?
> 
> ...


If you are doing a slot for the optic cover then in my eye some carefull siliconing is ok

Yes I would like to touch it before you make a couple of thousand .
just in case it needs any tweaks.


----------



## TheFunkyMonkey (Sep 18, 2007)

Awesome!

How much, i'm in for 1.


----------



## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Looking very nice.

What's the deal with switches /power sockets: these being left for buyers to drill?

Whereabouts can they be fitted? On the top / back? I'd like to do something similar to this:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Dave .

Plenty of room on the rear for switch /socket , I thought it best to leave that for the user 
as so many different options . But I will put holes in if needed 




Cheers Funky monkey
PM sent


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Ok Folks

I will be putting an add in the classifieds soon

and if you want one of these little beautys 
PM or EMAIL me and I will send you paypal details










the production housing will be a little heavier not much though

As you all have seen this little package is pretty awesome and makes a superb
helmet light .
it fits to the helmet with an easy to get from most Diy stores velcro strap

you could also put a bar mount on it for an ace bar light.

I am in a position to say they will be £ 50 / $ 72 / Euro 57 - plus postage and packing.
which should be no more than £10 worldwide you pay what I pay.

Black anodised will be approx £5 extra and add a week lead time from when I get the 
housings.

they will be ready to put 6 XPE leds and 6 carclo 10 mm square optics in
with an integrated heatsink for the Maxflex to be thermal epoxied to .

it will have the 4 bolts in stainless to fix the base plate

and also a piece of clear polycarbonate to cover the optics

When I get the one off Deesta I will build it up and do a photo step by step to show how easy it is to do .

Thanks for your time Troutie


----------



## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

Troutie, what kind of mini-mill do you have? I'm dreaming of getting my own at some point and I'm curious to know what our resident mad scientist is using!

I'm dreaming of a 12 XPE light.... which would be wonderfully insane!


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I notice its the King of lights, nice touch:thumbsup:


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

A couple more pics with the side slots and helmet strap slots in place....

Will have it in the post for you tomorrow Chris...should keep you busy for about 5 minutes :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Steve looking good cant wait to get it in my hands.


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Hey Mr Trout, if your floggin owt, how about a link in your sig. line?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Hey Mr Trout, if your floggin owt, how about a link in your sig. line?


Yes I will do that soon when I have seen the finished article.

You never answered My question in the sewer rats post in the other thread
I was trying to spot the cyclist in those pics


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

lol, there was a prob getting my pic to load
.......... here i am


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*What a little beauty*

I have just caught the mailman with my Troutielite housing off Deesta.
and I am well impressed it is very nice .
I have done a few piccys even though you have seen some .


























You all know much of this info but here it is again.

The housing is CNC produced by Steve aka Deesta 
and will take 6 XPE leds and Carclo 10 mm optics , and I am hoping the Ledil Lisa optic
which I have on order to try out.
From the beam shots you have seen it is a pretty darn good light for the helmet but will be able to take a bar clamp also for a killer bar light.

Soon I will be building it up and doing a detailed account of how to do it to show how easy the build is. 
I have put an add in the classifieds also link in my sig line.

:thumbsup: And now some even better news :thumbsup:

Mark aka welight From Cutters ( Thanks Mark )
has kindly offered a discount for what may be called the Troutie kit
which should be 6 XPE leds / 6 -Carclo 10mm optics / and a MaxFlex

As we all know this is a sweet combination with batteries from 15v downwards


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Looking good Chris :thumbsup: 

How does everything seem to fit? Does it all go in ok? Thoughts on the lid on the underside? I reckon it looks really neat, no visible screwws etc I think there would be enough material in the lid to securely fasten a bar mount to.....


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

That looks very sweet guys - top stuff.

How would the bar mount work?


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Steve, Chris ........mmmm drooling on my keboard..... this is gorgeous :thumbsup: 
.... i`ll have 2 from your first batch thanks ..
seen the sigline/ad Troutie, 

.and,..... nice one mark/ cutters!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Looking good Chris :thumbsup:
> 
> How does everything seem to fit? Does it all go in ok? Thoughts on the lid on the underside? I reckon it looks really neat, no visible screwws etc I think there would be enough material in the lid to securely fasten a bar mount to.....


Looks good Steve. 
there are a few minor tweaks and I will mail you soon about them .

I have had a bit of a shock but will speak to you about it soon.
nothing bad.

Harpoon a bar mount will mean drilling a hole in the base and bolting the mount on or I can do a tapped M5 hole for a lumi mount.

Hendo Great I will add you to the list .thanks.

good piccy Abit muddy last I believe


----------



## jim (Jan 27, 2004)

Troutie, with the strap configuration, does the light have adequate vertical clearance above the helmet to prevent helmet shadowing?

Beautiful design...


----------



## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Troutie- Any thoughts on making a housing to handle a pair of 3x XPE's?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

jim said:


> Troutie, with the strap configuration, does the light have adequate vertical clearance above the helmet to prevent helmet shadowing?
> 
> Beautiful design...


jim I have tried it on 3 different helmets and no shadowing .
thuogh if you used wide optics it may do . with all narrow or elipticals and narrow no problems
then again you wouldnot want wides on a helmet .

.40AET
I have not thought about the triple XPE ones yet 
but I suppose 2 thirds of Deestas housing would look and work great .
lets see what steve says about that


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

It's looking really good Chris  How long till we get the beamshots??? Are you doing them now?

.40AET: Have you seen my thread for CNC housings? I'm doing a triple XPE-triple option on my housing. It will take the Carlco 20mm triple optics :thumbsup:

Have a look on this thread if you're interested... 
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=481325

deesta


----------



## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

Man, this looks great. 

Is this "way over the head" of a newb light builder?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

racerdave said:


> Man, this looks great.
> 
> Is this "way over the head" of a newb light builder?


racerdave.

Thanks no way is it over the head of a newb probably the easiest build out there
i know this sounds a lot , you need to make about 20 solder joints 
drill a couple of holes use a bit of thermal epoxy and silicon , job done when my bits arrive there will be a photo how to for newbs


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

hey troutie, is the housing in your add a one off or is deesta making a bunch?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> hey troutie, is the housing in your add a one off or is deesta making a bunch?


Hi Cytoe, 
Deesta is making a bunch next week I hope after he has done his run .


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

sweet. the housing looks pro...I may not be able to resist the light-itis bug.


----------



## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> racerdave.
> 
> Thanks no way is it over the head of a newb probably the easiest build out there
> i know this sounds a lot , you need to make about 20 solder joints
> drill a couple of holes use a bit of thermal epoxy and silicon , job done when my bits arrive there will be a photo how to for newbs


Thanks troutie... I've done all that stuff before, so I think I can handle that. 

Appreciate it. Count me in for one! :thumbsup:

--Dave


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

racerdave said:


> Thanks troutie... I've done all that stuff before, so I think I can handle that.
> 
> Appreciate it. Count me in for one! :thumbsup:
> 
> --Dave


Thanks Dave I will add you to the list

There will be an update soon with what is happening and when Deesta is going to do the run.
and then I will have to ask for some dosh .

there are a few small tweaks needed but nothing serious
just to make it easier to build.


----------



## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Sun going down later & later...*



troutie-mtb said:


> Thanks Dave I will add you to the list
> 
> There will be an update soon with what is happening and when Deesta is going to do the run.
> and then I will have to ask for some dosh .
> ...


I want one of these but blew my 08-09 bike light budget already. Since it's light here until 6 p.m., my CFO is balking at a new light build as the ROI is low due to the reduction in night riding... I stopped bringing my quad LED on my after-work rides two weeks ago.

Think you'll do another run of these in October?


----------



## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

I wanted to know the same thing. I'm building a tripple mc-e and I want a 6xp-e too for my helmet. It's starting to stay light later here, so I think I'm gonna have to wait till next fall for the xp-e setup


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Bruce and RT 
I am not sure what is going to happen but thing have taken a bit of a strange path

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-thing-of-beauty-for-the-diy-light-builder

have a read here and you will probably be able to figure out what I am babbleing about .

I am sure Deesta or myself will be able to do something housing wise when you want one .

There will probably be some new emitters by then or some new development .
I am going to have a few spare ones done in this run for late comers 
and i am sure deesta wont throw away the programmes


----------



## Calina (Apr 8, 2008)

Chris,

Why don't you advertise your lights on the CPF marketplace and on the bikeforums?
Are you afraid to turn this into a full time job for you and Deesta? :devil: 

:thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Calina said:


> Chris,
> 
> Why don't you advertise your lights on the CPF marketplace and on the bikeforums?
> Are you afraid to turn this into a full time job for you and Deesta? :devil:
> ...


Calina it is a nice idea and I would love to do something like that 
I am a carpet and flooring installer self employed , and with Great Britain not so great now the work is pretty dire , so I have nothing but a skill with my hands .
I cannot risk the family home 
so a little bit from things like this keep me sane and fund a hobby I enjoy along side biking .
I am working hard to pull something out of this and had a good chat with Brant today 
so watch this space .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HELLO Everybody 
Thank you for all your support , this is a great place to hang out.

I am trying to get the numbers ready for Deesta s CNC run .

so here is the list so far ,
And if you have ordered a housing and see you are not on the list . it is not that I dont like you , My head is a shedfire  at the moment and you will be lost some where in my computer.
so please get in touch again so I dont miss anyone out.



Harpoon ======== 1 complete light
mr Dither ========1 complete light
Davew255=========2 housings 12 leds / 16 optics / 2 maxflex
funkey monkey ==== 1 housing leds and optics
hey hey hendo=====2 housings
racer dave========1 housing
pinkrobe===wow===3 housings

thanks all and please get in touch if you should be on the list.






I am filtering the yes / nos / and maybes out from the singletrack forum 
and it is looking like a similar number of takers.


----------



## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Troutie 

Just to confirm I do want the 2 housings, but also the LEDs optics and drivers- which I've paid you for ;-)

Good luck with making a bit more out of all this & all your hard work.

Dave


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

davew255 said:


> Troutie
> 
> Just to confirm I do want the 2 housings, but also the LEDs optics and drivers- which I've paid you for ;-)
> 
> ...


Ha Ha just testing :smilewinkgrinave to see if you were paying attention . edited now


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Well, you sure have your hands full now Mr T!!!

Congratulations, glad to see everything is going well for you... you have certainly put in the hard yards to reach this point and it is rather nice to see one of our own have so much success. 

Keep up the fettling!

Rosco


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Shedfire hey Mr Trout - interesting meeting Brant was it?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks Salty 
Be a right buzz to see it in a bike shop 
or meet one on the trails .

having said that there will be what ever happens at least 31 out there on the trails in I think 4 or 5 different countrys

And Brant has ordered 1 for his bike too .

Harpoon on that note he was a very personable guy and very interesting


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Does anyone know how we are supposed to get the Troutlite kit discount from Cutter? I keep meaning to e-mail Mark [Welight], but I keep forgetting, and now it's Saturday in Australia so he won't be at work...


----------



## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

oops...


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

pinkrobe said:


> Does anyone know how we are supposed to get the Troutlite kit discount from Cutter? I keep meaning to e-mail Mark [Welight], but I keep forgetting, and now it's Saturday in Australia so he won't be at work...


......Maybe a percentage discount coupon code to enter at checkout ..
..eg; TROUTELITE8 would give 8% discount


----------



## BrewMaster (Jun 9, 2007)

You have to prove your insanity to ge the Troutie discount.


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

BrewMaster said:


> You have to prove your insanity to ge the Troutie discount.


I'm getting three housings and building two of them for buddies in exchange for beer, so you can just...

Actually, that's not crazy at all. Sorry, nothing to see here, move along...


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Guys 
I am normally here earlier but had a rare oversleep.

Even I do not know how to get this discount 
and I ordered stuff for me and for a few guys here in the uk way before I asked Mark for this a few days ago.

I guess we will have to wait for him to surface after the weekend to find out 
or email him


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Mixed Optics Shots*

As I am now dismantling the original 6er xpe I have done a few shots with the optics I have just to help out any of you who have ordered my housing or thinking about using the same setup .

I was rapidly losing the dark so this is just so you can see the beams shape and throw 
and how each option covers the trail diferently

-----6 NARROW TIGHT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------4 NARROW TIGHT AND 2 ELIPTICALS










-----4 ELIPTICALS AND 2 NARROW---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------4 ELIPTICALS ON THEIR OWN










------2 NARROW AND 4 ELIPTICALS ROTATED 90 DEGREES-----------------------------------------------------------------------------2 NARROW ON THEIR OWN










I hope this helps anyone who has not ordered their optics and sorry to anyone who has

My own personal preference is leaning towards the 4 elips and 2 narrow for either head or bars , it really is sweet coverage for such tiny things.
Or I may go 3 and 3 bums I forgot that combination


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

ewwww! ..... 2 on their own look drab in comparison to the 6  
thanks for the extra beamshot pics, very interesting ....
4elipse & 2 narrow it is then !


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Looking good Chris,

Any pics of the inside with all the bits fitted? Would be good to see the internals 

Any news on what Brant is thinking of doing with them?


----------



## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

deesta said:


> Any news on what Brant is thinking of doing with them?


We're looking at various options. Nothing sorted yet.


----------



## jerry_c (Jan 11, 2009)

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I've been thinking this kind of desing for a some time. Is there any reason to have part of the leds angled, like in this picture:








so part of the light comes straight to the ground in front of you? Or is that helmet light bright enough to light up that part of the road?


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

brant said:


> We're looking at various options. Nothing sorted yet.


Cool....this shedfire project looks interesting :thumbsup:


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

.....jerry, the best thing about havin a light on your head is,
it lights up wherever or whatever you are looking at .....:thumbsup: 
in trouties excellent beamshots you will see in every case that the foreground is bright
....... :nono: no more hijacking!


----------



## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> ------4 ELIPTICALS AND 2 NARROW-----
> 
> ------2 NARROW AND 4 ELIPTICALS *ROTATED 90 DEGREES*------


Ya know, I've been wondering for a while about running ellipticals on the vertical axis....for a tight band of light that starts at the wheel.

Gotta say though, I've been studying those 2 photos side by side, and I don't really see any difference. Photo mixup, or just so much damn light it spills everywhere?  Or maybe the Carclo elliptic is not as defined as the Ledil I've been playing with on the bench?

That is one fine light that you've created Mr. Trout and Mr. Deesta. If I wasn't so engrossed in creating my own, I'd be getting in line for one :thumbsup:

JZ


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Just echoing Hendos words he is spot on 
there is no need to do complex angles it can be done with optic choice easier

JimZinVT
definatly no photo mixup 
A single eliptical is just a strip of light and lacks throw 
I think the mix does it and is sweet . I have not rode with the 4elip 2 narrow but it looks good.

I am getting a few other angles to try , but I thing I may just be going round in circles.

I have got some ledil lisas coming to try also .

you know I did the perfect light thread .
well this one is ticking more boxes than any others I have made.


nice throw and spill
low profile
light weight
good runtimes 
Good heat management
good looking
easy to build
bar or helmet
not perfect though . so I will have to keep trying :smilewinkgrin:

Cheers Troutie


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Even if it was perfect Troutie would never stop. He's got them electrons on the brain and in the blood.


----------



## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

Hi Guys
Kit is up
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut880
use coupon 'troutiekit' to get the discount price

late news... stock just arrived of new HIPFLEX and HIPCC for MCE


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Wow , brilliant thanks for that Mark


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

> This is the complete kit of leds, optics and driver to suit Trouties XPE Helmet housing
> Kit includes 6 x XPE R2 leds mounted on 10mm round MCPCB, selection of 10mm square Carclo optics
> . Please nominate which mix you want in the comments field.
> ............. Also comes with the latest Maxlex 3 driver


....... "round" MCPCB ?????:???:

thought that `all square together` would assemble neater/easier ????


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Funnily enough Steve mentioned square would be worse as it leaves no where to drill holes for the wires to go through . and the led/optic slot is a good fit and the little space 
left with the round boards may be an advantage .










i have ordered a few sets on square boards before Deesta said so will be able to say for definate soon I hope.

It will be very full with the square boards and it may mean chopping a couple of corners for the wires


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

ah ok, its just that the sqare boards have holes for the optic leg
and would line up accurate...
....... i was only considering my `bunch of bananas` fingers


----------



## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

I will modify the kit options to include either round or square


----------



## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> It will be very full with the square boards and it may mean chopping a couple of corners for the wires


On the other hand, wiring them as I did means you have no conflict between wires and optic legs. If the square boards are laid out out appropriately you could do the same.








[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

Wow... sweet solder job. That's really nice.

And seeing that case had me wondering about it... "gee, that looks like Troutie/Deesta's case, but it's different." 

So I went "clicky, clicky" on all your sig links... nice light work!! 

And thanks for the posts. Great stuff.


----------



## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> ....... i was only considering my `bunch of bananas` fingers


Good to know I'm not the only one with such an affliction.


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Trouties Kit x 3 ordered from Cutter!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Steve has hinted that production will be very soon 
The darn aluminuim stock was held up by the bloody snow
only in england can 4 inches of snow bring the country to a standstill.

I have found a couple of nice little switches for the light .that have small intrusion inside the lights . 
I have been looking for ages for good switches that are not bigger inside the housing than outside and these seem close to ideal.

clicky linky thingy 

and another linky clicky thingy

and this one thingy clicky linky
even smaller inside but is a glue in place switch and is covered in rubber seems nice and waterproof.

RS components clicky

I will have it all in one place soon


----------



## kangaroomadman (Nov 19, 2008)

Ooh...those switches look nice! I hate that you need to spend £20 min. at farnell though!


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## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

Will anyone be using the Turboferret battery holders to power this thing? What would be sufficient power to run this light on full, and what kind of runtimes could be expected?


----------



## wkumtrider (Dec 27, 2007)

Excuse my ingnorance, but the cutter deal includes the housing, leds, driver, and optics?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

racerdave said:


> Will anyone be using the Turboferret battery holders to power this thing? What would be sufficient power to run this light on full, and what kind of runtimes could be expected?


Dave runtime would depend on what ah your cells are and George says the minimum battery he would recomend is a 14.4 v to boost up to > 18 volts so it needs to be a 4 cell pack . . 
I have a full 2.4 ah pack so will do a runtime test with the light on full untill it trips out @ 14 volts and come back with the result


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

That is the runtime test done at the full 700ma 
battery 14.4v li ion 2400mah charged 2 days ago and reading at the start 16.67 volts

the light ran for 2 hours 5 minutes before the protection circuit tripped out and I know this 
trips out at 14 volts .

OOPs forgot to say this was outside at freezing temperature with the fan blowing freezing air over light and battery




wkumtrider 
no sadly the housing is not included in Cutters price 

but I do have 3 left from the projected 30 Deesta is making :smilewinkgrin:


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

wkumtrider said:


> Excuse my ingnorance, but the cutter deal includes the housing, leds, driver, and optics?


Cutter is, AFAIK, LEDs, driver and optics.

Housing is from Troutie


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

hey troutie, sign me up for a housing. Can't resist the CNC bling.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> hey troutie, sign me up for a housing. Can't resist the CNC bling.


Will do Cytoe thanks 
can you drop me an email on troutie at blueyonder dot co dot uk please


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## mtbdawgJeff (Jul 27, 2004)

I want one too if its not too late. Email sent as well Troutie. Not that I need another light but this such a sweet looking housing.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

mail sent also. thanks!


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## mr-dither (Jul 14, 2008)

been looking around at some switch options... not too hot on figures so excuse my poor lack of understanding of values of the switches so they may not be suitable but some may be..

if you have a while then feel free to take a look at the below 

Ebay Link 1

Ebay Link 2

Ebay Link 3

Marine Link 1

Rapid online link 1

Maplin link1

Maplin link2

Maplin link3

Maplin link4

Rapid online link 2

Rapid online link 3

Rapid online link 4

honeywell link 1

Schurter link 1

Schurter link 2

Schurter link 3

Schurter link 4

Jaycar link 1

Jaycar link 2

Jaycar link 3

Jaycar link 4

Swintronic link 1

Twenga link 1

Twenga link 2

that'll keep you busy for a while lol , but some real nice switches in there is they suit in the figures for power etc..


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hell mr Dither you have been busy there.



To all the folks who are also waiting for this housing . I just had this email from Deesta

Hi Chris,

I've had to order extra material due to the number you want of the XPE's. I'm doing my casings today and tomorrow so should hopefuly get those out over the weekend  Due to the time I need to do your csing, I'm not going to be able to do them until the middle of next week . We've got an urgent job that needs to be done but yours will be next. I'll be able to do one with the modifiv=cations on for you to play with though, so will get that to you as soon as.

Hope that's ok?

Cheers, Steve

As soon as I know Deesta is doing them I will mail you all for some beer tokens and a delivery address .
then I can have it all set up to get them in the mail as soon as I have them ..

Though you could email me the delivery address now then I can get started 


On a side note anyone had their XPEs delivered yet 
There seems to only silence from cutters at the moment .


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Not for a Troutlite, but here is my turnaround time. Initial order made Monday, Feb. 2nd.

We are pleased to inform you that your order (ID 6715) has been updated from Payment Received to Order Entered on 04th February 2009 15:10. If you have selected a shipping service that provides a tracking number, that tracking number is 

We are pleased to inform you that your order (ID 6715) has been updated from Payment Received to Order Shipped on 10th February 2009 10:39. If you have selected a shipping service that provides a tracking number, that tracking number is 

I ordered XPEWHT-L1-WG0-R2-0-01 R2 Flux WG Tint 10mm Round MCPCB 

I have always had good luck with the cutter people.:thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

odtexas said:


> Not for a Troutlite, but here is my turnaround time. Initial order made Monday, Feb. 2nd.
> 
> We are pleased to inform you that your order (ID 6715) has been updated from Payment Received to Order Entered on 04th February 2009 15:10. If you have selected a shipping service that provides a tracking number, that tracking number is
> 
> ...


Yes so have I 
I quess I am too impatient 
my order went in on 04 feb order no 6753 so assuming they work their way through them 
should be sorted soon then. 
it was just I mailed them to try and add some more to the order 3 days ago and have heard nothing back yet .


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

So 37 orders between mine on the 2nd and yours on the 4rth. 
How many of those orders were because of your postings I wonder.


----------



## irishdave (Jul 13, 2008)

neilt said:


> Excellent. My little plan to build something in one of the little Hammond cases looks feasible then. I could get 8 optics in there, in two rows of 4, but I think that would be a touch too much. 6 should be OK, with some additional heatsinks attached to the top of the case.
> 
> I feel an order coming on


I've just notice your plans for a hamond cased multi xpe light, I've been thinking the same thing but was concerned about potential heat of 6 xpe each at 600ma, as I have heat issues with my twin MCE hammond run at the same level.

Have you built yours yet? How is it copping with the heat?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

irishdave said:


> I've just notice your plans for a hamond cased multi xpe light, I've been thinking the same thing but was concerned about potential heat of 6 xpe each at 600ma, as I have heat issues with my twin MCE hammond run at the same level.
> 
> Have you built yours yet? How is it copping with the heat?


Dave you must have missed Neils build 
it is pretty cool and here Neils XPE 6er


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

*..... small IP64 momentary switch*

i have this mom. switch
nice, also easy to operate with gloves on
wwwrs.com stock no 433 3203 clicky link
spec .... clicky link
OOOH ANOTHER ONE TO ip68 stock no 512 938..


----------



## irishdave (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks for that, Neils build Looks neat. What ever case I use was going to use them 2p3s, to run nicely off an maxflex at 600ma each string off my 7.4 battery, but Ifor is sowing the seeds of doubt in my head here
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=5375678#post5375678
I would run them as a series chain like your light I'd need to get a new 14.8 battery.
Unless I manage to sell the twin mce and 7.4 battery to my nephew who has taken up mtb and has decided to do the Mayhem solo as his first event!! I speak to smudge for a new battery and sspend some money at cutters.

None of this would matter if I hadn't come across this thread, I was happy with the mce light.


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Dave, dont panic, if your happy with the MC-E light, stick with it man,
how many people are really concerned with balancing forward voltage
........ or petrified of thermal runaway? nah!  
seems most builds go like this, ....

.....5pm, open parcel from cutters,... switch on 60w soldering iron to warm up, ...
5:03pm just gluing down the last XP-E
5:07pm, there thats the maxFlex hooked up
5:09pm, and the XP-Es ....
5:10pm put sunglasses on
5:11pm plug it in, no messin, straight to max amps ............... WHOOOOO HOOOOO


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Dave, dont panic, if your happy with the MC-E light, stick with it man,
> how many people are really concerned with balancing forward voltage
> ........ or petrified of thermal runaway? nah!
> seems most builds go like this, ....
> ...


Way to go there Hendo , Have you got a spy cam in my garage :cornut:

Sound advise there too

:devil: I will have a few spare cases too :devil::ihih:


----------



## peteoheat (Sep 29, 2008)

mr-dither,

I took a good look at everything that maplin sells that might be suitable and the only one I found that was of a reasonable size to use on any of the housings here was http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=2493

The rest are waaaay to big IMHO.

Mark



mr-dither said:


> been looking around at some switch options... not too hot on figures so excuse my poor lack of understanding of values of the switches so they may not be suitable but some may be..
> 
> if you have a while then feel free to take a look at the below
> 
> ...


----------



## irishdave (Jul 13, 2008)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Dave, dont panic, if your happy with the MC-E light, stick with it man,
> how many people are really concerned with balancing forward voltage
> ........ or petrified of thermal runaway? nah!
> seems most builds go like this, ....
> ...


That's pretty much how I've put my lights together.
I know the MCE is good, actually it's way better than the lights I've been using, but I've enjoyed playing with these lights and I can't stop.

I've just got to convince the engineering technicians at work to show how to play, I mean use their milling machine and then if i don't break it maybe the cnc... lunch time could be quite busy.
They might even have other toys down there I don't know about. 
I'm no engineer but I'm prepared to learn.


----------



## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

peteoheat said:


> mr-dither,
> 
> I took a good look at everything that maplin sells that might be suitable and the only one I found that was of a reasonable size to use on any of the housings here was http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=2493
> 
> ...


I use these from maplins which are smaller still than what you linked to.

Ifor


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Ifor, nice switch, BUT .....
i would guess most people use their lights in winter when there is least daylight hours?? ..
rain/wet/salt spray = corrosion.....so they really need to be waterproof !


----------



## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Ifor, nice switch, BUT .....
> i would guess most people use their lights in winter when there is least daylight hours?? ..
> rain/wet/salt spray = corrosion.....so they really need to be waterproof !


Yes... good call. Mine will be subject to the same conditions.


----------



## mr-dither (Jul 14, 2008)

Good afternooooooon all..

so you mean all my hard work searching for switches turned on only one which was suitable .. bahhh humbug lol..

sir Trout, what the max size availble for the switch ?, i mean i just worked on the max depth of the unit which looked like 20mm..

do you want to give some dimentions that the switch length can be etc.. i'll do some more dithering in the net see what i can find..

also what is the min spec required for the switch..

so far i know a momentary type is required..
min Amp rating ?
voltage range etc ?, what happens of the only range given is AC how would you work out the DC rating etc...

anyway look forward to response so i can feel useful and maybe help out a little

Mr-Dither


----------



## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Ifor, nice switch, BUT .....
> i would guess most people use their lights in winter when there is least daylight hours?? ..
> rain/wet/salt spray = corrosion.....so they really need to be waterproof !


Well I have used them in the rain enough times with no trouble so I am not worried. A little bit of water dose not realy do to much harm. If the worst comes to the worst I will replace the switch.  Worst problem I have had with rain is getting condensation on the front protective lense of my light and ending up with all diffuse style optics at the end of the outing. I have discovered clear plasti-dip since and manage to get a good seal now that is still dismantalable so I don't suffer this anymore but everyting keeps working even when quite damp....

Ifor


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ifor said:


> ... everyting keeps working even when quite damp....


I have had surprisingly good luck with non waterproof switches in the past, and I ride in heavy rain. I tend to at least use a rubber boot nowadays so the water doesn't have a direct path in.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Right it is time for an update again.

With deesta completing his Housings , the production run for mine is imminent .

and My order from Cutters was dispatched today .

I am ordering some of these switches to use in the lights I am building for customers , 
so it is logical to offer a switch to the housing customers also ,
they work out @ US$ 6 ea

So if you want a switch with your housing please email me asap . Then I can get an order off for them


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> Right it is time for an update again.
> 
> With deesta completing his Housings , the production run for mine is imminent .
> 
> ...


You have an e-mail...


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## irishdave (Jul 13, 2008)

I came across this today 
http://astro.neutral.org/anodise.shtml

So if you can get hold of the chemicals you can have our lights any colour.
I suppose blacks a good thermal colour but the pink looks good.


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Cheers for the update troutie :thumbsup: 
no switches for me thanks
i take it the housing will have no switch/DC holes machined (good for me)
anyways got me some XP-E today from cutter, first time i had set eyes on them,
my reaction, (laughing) OH- MY- GOD!, are they for *real* or what.....
small???? nah, more like nano!


----------



## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

irishdave said:


> I came across this today
> http://astro.neutral.org/anodise.shtml
> 
> So if you can get hold of the chemicals you can have our lights any colour.
> I suppose blacks a good thermal colour but the pink looks good.


Some things seem "do-able" for DIY. Methinks that isn't one of them...

I could wreak all kinds of unintended havoc trying to do that.


----------



## irishdave (Jul 13, 2008)

racerdave said:


> Some things seem "do-able" for DIY. Methinks that isn't one of them...
> 
> I could wreak all kinds of unintended havoc trying to do that.


Yeah dispite what he suggests I definitly wouldn't want to be playing around with Sulfuric acid on top of the washing machine.
I work in labs in a University so once most of the teaching has finished I might have a play but I think I'll work in the fume cupboard.

What colour should a light be? Racing green would look good.


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

irishdave said:


> Yeah dispite what he suggests I definitly wouldn't want to be playing around with Sulfuric acid on top of the washing machine.
> I work in labs in a University so once most of the teaching has finished I might have a play but I think I'll work in the fume cupboard.
> 
> What colour should a light be? Racing green would look good.


Anything but pink sounds good to me


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## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

Yes, a university lab would be great... the fume cabinet, the availability of the acid. Nice.

Racing green would be sweet. I like that color a lot. I'd think darker colors would look best, but YMMV.


----------



## irishdave (Jul 13, 2008)

YMMV ?
I'm a bit dim


----------



## ndrordr (Dec 11, 2008)

YMMV = Your Methods May Vary


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

This anodising thing keeps coming around . and each time it does I go looking for acid and reread the how to do it , then chicken out , as I have the worlds untidest work shop 
and the thought of the flesh eating acid in there stops me .

I would like to have a go though.


----------



## irishdave (Jul 13, 2008)

I'll have a go with my hammond light when I get a chance and post the results.
I just can't believe that dylon dies are going to work.


----------



## Calina (Apr 8, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> This anodising thing keeps coming around . and each time it does I go looking for acid and reread the how to do it , then chicken out , as I have the worlds untidest work shop
> and the thought of the flesh eating acid in there stops me .
> 
> I would like to have a go though.


Always have fresh water and baking soda nearby when working with acid *but don't ever put any of these in your acid bath*.


----------



## dkvick (Apr 16, 2004)

irishdave said:


> I'll have a go with my hammond light when I get a chance and post the results.
> I just can't believe that dylon dies are going to work.


Aren't the Hammond cases already anodized? Mine is. Just play clear mind you.


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

I'll have 2 of the switches please Troutie. 

Looks like I won't be having the 3rd housing after all: I'll keep you posted.

Dave


----------



## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

Actually, I believe that YMMV means "Your Mileage May Vary."


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Hack On Wheels said:


> Actually, I believe that YMMV means "Your Mileage May Vary."


Thats what i knew it as also.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*not long now*

Deesta has sent me this moble phone pic to say he has started making the housing










so should be very soon now :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Now how do I wire these up*

I just got these from cutters for the customer builds I am doing

That would make a pretty impresive array the large block










Just checked and The bloody 10 mm square mcpcps are only 1 mm thick .:madman:

I would recomend if you have not ordered your XPE`s to order them on the round mcpcp

I hope this is not going to cause any problems for the builds


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*yet another update*

Steve has sent me another pic just to tease

He says they should be done by wednesday and then he has to ship them to me 
so they will be in the mail as soon as poss after .

this is the lid if youi can call it a lid as it is underneath .










The square bit is extra metal for if you want to drill and tap it for a bar mount .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*There on there way*

I just had a message from Steve .

This box










Full of 42 of these










Was dispatched today .
So I will be mailing the housings out Friday & Sat

Be interesting to see who is first to get one overseas . uk does not count


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

mmmmmm can`t wait  
you gonna do a build up pictorial for us beginners :thumbsup:


----------



## sturmey (Sep 2, 2008)

Just aranged to have mine sent for anodizing via a work mates partner she says she can get it through as a sample as they get a reasonable bit done every week. Lucky me just to decide on colour now and stop the caffine for a few days to let the shakes wear of before starting the soldering!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> mmmmmm can`t wait
> you gonna do a build up pictorial for us beginners :thumbsup:


I will give it my best shot , but you might have yours finished before I have packed and posted them all out 
I have gone from no work to too much work , and no time to do the builds


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

sturmey said:


> Just aranged to have mine sent for anodizing via a work mates partner she says she can get it through as a sample as they get a reasonable bit done every week. Lucky me just to decide on colour now and stop the caffine for a few days to let the shakes wear of before starting the soldering!


Are you Paul from rawdon 
If so then you will be the first to get one as I am working in wetherby and will swing past your house and drop it in on friday hope fully if they arrive tomorrow


----------



## sturmey (Sep 2, 2008)

Thats me. Cheers hope it fits through the letter box!!! Need to get it sorted as my first attampt at lights from the raceday nutrition site have started to play up and I can no longer trust them on a night ride.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

sturmey said:


> Thats me. Cheers hope it fits through the letter box!!! Need to get it sorted as my first attampt at lights from the raceday nutrition site have started to play up and I can no longer trust them on a night ride.


Do you get out with the north leeds lot on their rides .
If you need any assistance I am in Silsden so not far away .


----------



## sturmey (Sep 2, 2008)

The year before last I did a bit with them, but only a few rides last year and mm. new bike build and light issues have curtailed my night rides so far this year. Just been looking at turbo ferrets battery holders and couldent work out how he achieved the volage with the wiring in parrallel in the pics then read he does series as well doh!


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Hopefully the postman will know where it's going.....I thought if I just put Chris's name on it, they'd realise it was light bits and deliver it accordingly!! 

Will be looking forward to getting some feedback off the guys who have ordered one. I'm thinking now that I should have kept one for myself:madman:


----------



## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Almost Summer Time*



deesta said:


> Will be looking forward to getting some feedback off the guys who have ordered one. I'm thinking now that I should have kept one for myself:madman:


If there's enough demand, you might want to do another run in the Sept-Oct time rame.

I stopped bringing my big lights this week. Hell, I had my first ride in in short sleeves yesterday and didn't even bring a jacket. I, for one, love the southwest.


----------



## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

Question... from that last pic, is there still a slot cut in the two vertical posts extending from the base? I recall that in an earlier that they looked like this:









so velcro, etc, could be strung through for a mount.

If not, what do people plan on doing for mounts?


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi racerdave,
There are slots in the lids for velcro straps. I had not put them in when I took the photo 
There is also some extra metal in the centre of the lid for those who want to drill and tap a hole for a lumicycle type mount

Steve


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Whoo Hoo just got in and opened the box*

Brilliant , Cheers Steve , they are even better than I imagined 
Theh have a really nice quality feel to them . .

I will put some piccys up later


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Hey Chris,

Glad you're happy with them...I reckon they'll make a really neat unit. Kinda wish I'd kept one back for me but I have enough lights for now especially when the MCE beast is ready


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Some piccys*

ok some piccys to have a look at while I pack a few up ready for Postman Pat tomorrow


----------



## SkUG (Feb 19, 2008)

Woah


----------



## mtbdawgJeff (Jul 27, 2004)

Awesome craftsmanship. Can't wait for mine to arrive.


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I cant wait to start building up my troutlight!
I just had a great thought about how I am going to wire mine. So I thought I would share. I am sure some people will wire there troutlight with a maxflex and 3S2P and utilize 7.2V battery with the max 1200 ma setting for 600ma per die. Many other will wire 6S and use a 4 or 5 cell LiOn and the 700ma maxflex setting. The battery I am currently using for my helmet light is a 2 cell 18650 lion, but for this monster of a light I want to eventually get a 4cell. That means I will have to change the wiring. I am now thinking I should find a little slider switch and draw out a good scheme so I can switch the wiring for 3S2P to 6S. I will just hide the switch in the driver compartment, not something I plan to change a lot but if I can cram it in this would be nice as It would make this thing even more versatile.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

All you guys over the water they were posted today so the race is on for the first arrival 



Jay any sign of the prototype turning up yet , posted a week ago .


----------



## sturmey (Sep 2, 2008)

Power connector fitted, switch fitted, thread tapped for bar mount. Going for green anodizing on wednesday should get it back a week later and hopefuly the bits from cutters will have arrived by then. Troutie what a fantastic light body thaks very much:thumbsup: . Do you know what material it was machined from so I can tell the anodizers?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

sturmey said:


> Power connector fitted, switch fitted, thread tapped for bar mount. Going for green anodizing on wednesday should get it back a week later and hopefuly the bits from cutters will have arrived by then. Troutie what a fantastic light body thaks very much:thumbsup: . Do you know what material it was machined from so I can tell the anodizers?


Hells bells Paul dont waste any time will you . I hope you left enough room for the maxflex . You will notice the maxflex mount is offset also .

PICS ???

I guess steve will be along to say the aluminium type .


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Sturmey: The aluminium grade is HE30/6082

As Chris say, you don't waste any time :thumbsup: 

Will be interesting to see who has the 1st fully functioning light...with pics to prove it!!!!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Phew Its a wrap*

That is if folks . all the empty housings are posted around the world some will be dropping throught letter boxes tomorrow in the UK . as steve says Who will be first to post with a built one .

Next to get started on the build ups and already got a small problem routing the wires with the square boards . as the cavity is pretty full .pics up soon .


----------



## sturmey (Sep 2, 2008)

No worries with space Chris I cut a dummy disc at work the same size as the maxflex before I started just to be on the safe side. Thanks for the concern anyway.


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I have the prototype in hand now, wow this is going to be my nicest light yet. I am actually quite pleased that mine has the 2 little slots on the side that went all the way through to the optic/led space. I am going to fill them with little amber plastic windows and epoxy them in place. Thanks to posts from Aaron I am seriously considering doing some home anodizing,maybe green or orange. It will be quite a while till I get mine built since I have not even placed a cutter order yet, I have to wait till I finish doing some work and get some bills payed but It wont be long now. The waiting time will give me a chance to really think through the switched wiring scheme I have in mind and find the perfect switch. Maybe i will also be able to source a piece of coated mineral glass for the front window.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Be nice to see my proto get used*

Glad you like it Jay .Be real good to see it used and not sitting in my spares bin .
and who knows some of your bike shop customers might want one also


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*The Story so far on the first build*

I am having a practice build on my brothers light to iron out any niggles .

The first problem is I ordered the XPEs on square boards and this presented a wiring issue , the space it just a fit a solution was needed .










this was my answer crude as the drilling is and suggestions welcome.

I drilles 2 x 3 mm holes at an angle and centred on the end leds .
I had to open the hole out a bit above the boards with a round file .










You can see the near cockup for the switch I miss measured the dia of the switch and frilled a 14 mm hole instead of a 13 mm and as you will see later I had to glue the switch in , but it is waterproof .

Next I tinned all the solder pads , easier out of the case . and added the wires to the end ones . 
I was going to leave the strip of boards fastened together but if would not sit flat 
Then bed them in the housing with thermal paste of adhesive 
I have used paste . 
A tip with the paste is to warm up the housing and then it flows better when you press the boards in .

Then a little solder bridge to join the leds up in series

sorry for the bad pic I will replace it on the next one










The optics were then fixed with tiny blobs of silicon which also holds the boards in place in the housing too , watch out for the 2 legs with bumps on to locate in the holes on the boards










I found it better to pre wire the Maxflex before glueing it to the post with AAA

It is better if you file the board flat , by the gold pad and on the other side mark the centre with a pen 
also mark the centre of the mount post . as you will be working blind when you fix the maxflex and you dont want it to short on the post

I mix the AAA on the post less waste that way and you can work it in to the ali .

The post will want de burring and it is a good idea to wash the housing when you have drilled all your holes to remove any oil and swarfe


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

good stuff troutie ......so the square boards are not as good as the round!
i`m pleased i ordered round ones as per your earlier suggestion, thanks
....


> and suggestions welcome.


cut off the corners of the 2 adjoining mcpcb so to access the thru hole


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Some good tips on the build there: keep them coming.

My housings did not arrive in the post today  Sure they'll be worth waiting for.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

davew255 said:


> Some good tips on the build there: keep them coming.
> 
> My housings did not arrive in the post today  Sure they'll be worth waiting for.


Thats a bugger dave They all went first class yesterday should be monday 
I wonder if anyone got theirs .

Hendo did your arrive they were posted thurs


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

> Hendo did your arrive they were posted thurs


yes got em fri. morning, mmmm lovely gorgeous they are too :thumbsup: 
soz i should have let you know ....
now the lonnnnnnnnng wait for the leds/optics! :cryin:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> good stuff troutie ......so the square boards are not as good as the round!


Now I have built up 7 of the we beasties I am liking the square boards now .
Which is a bugger as I have ordered some more on round boards .

They are not quite finished but all working and just need the facia plates glueing in 
mow that is going to be a bit fiddly .


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

> I am liking the square boards now .


did the thinner mcpcb cause any grief then ?

:cryin: i ordered round too


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> did the thinner mcpcb cause any grief then ?
> 
> :cryin: i ordered round too


No grief just the optic sits 1 mm further in the housing doesnt cause any issues at all .
The optics do site a bit better on the square boards and still need a little silicon to fix them in place just the same as the rounds .

no need to cry the housing was designed for the round boards ..

now if only I had enough batteries I could get a beam shot of all Eight inc the prototype .


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## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Looking sweet Chris.

Are you doing mine without the power input socket?


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

Having been round trouties earlier today I can honestly say the photos dont do his lights justice. The finish and quality is top quality in and out and amazingly small. Well done that man


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

1st of all, I gotta say excellent work on those housings guys. some top notch machining on that. can't wait to see the finished product. especially the ano green one. I love green! :thumbsup: 

also, seeing as you've got the completed ones running troutie, how's the heat management doing? do you know how much surface area you have on the production light? and what power are you putting into it?

the reason I ask, is I'm trying to figure out some safe heatsink dimensions to run an absurd amount of XPEs. I'm thinking something along the lines of a 7S2P wall of light. sure, it's the size of a trailtech 30w HID, but with a tad bit more light  

so far, I've got a direct, wide heat path to BIG fins, and ~30 sq in of area for 28.5w of power to dissipate (plus the maxflex output). question is, do I need more? obviously I won't be throwing 2800 lumens all the time, but it's nice to know it'll run like that  

call me crazy...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Bryguy17 said:


> 1st of all, I gotta say excellent work on those housings guys. some top notch machining on that. can't wait to see the finished product. especially the ano green one. I love green! :thumbsup:
> 
> also, seeing as you've got the completed ones running troutie, how's the heat management doing? do you know how much surface area you have on the production light? and what power are you putting into it?
> 
> ...


ut: 
Thanks Bryguy 
I cant help on the area and numbers are my weak suit My stuff is seat of the pants science , if it looks right it usually is .
there are some heat management results deep within this thread from the first proto 
and these have more surface and better heat paths , also the UK is not a place that overheats often .

I dont think I will ever understand what a watt is , and am only slowly starting to grasp volts and amps .

a few numbers to play with 
I tested each light as it was built and the strings did vary by about 1.5 volts 
all tested @ 700ma and the vf were in the range 18.2 v to 19.5 v

when 15 volts was given to the Maxflex set @ 700ma the current was always hovering around 1000ma

When I get in from work I will try and work out the surface area


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> ut:
> Thanks Bryguy
> I cant help on the area and numbers are my weak suit My stuff is seat of the pants science , if it looks right it usually is .
> there are some heat management results deep within this thread from the first proto
> ...


yeah, I am really crazy. I figured that maybe Deesta might have a solid part file floating around on his comp (since he made them right?). might try bugging him since it's only a few minutes tops to figure out a surface area on it.

I was just playing around with sealing schemes and looking at my maglite for inspiration. then I realised it. I'm building a 2800lumen monster of a light, and it's going to be the size of a maglite head (just the head). somehow, I figured a way of fitting 14 10mm square XPE's into that space, so I decided to design a light around that fact.

interestingly, you can fit 14 of the buggers into a mag lite, but they have such poor thermal management that it would be a disaster.

just needa figure out how much area I need. it's a straight, wide open path from star to fins, and there's a lot of area. I'll take a screenshot from my drawing to give you an idea...

edit: here's the main body. it'll just use a mag-lite bezel for simplicity:
















:devil:

hey Deesta, want a new project?


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi BryGuy,
Unfortunately, because I did the programming in my head and not on the CADCAM I don't know the surface area. It would take me a while to do a 3D rendition and get all the grooves etc in place to be able to work it out..I think my Triple housing was about 12 square inches of area?
Sorry I can't help more...

New project?? I'm always up for new projects......:thumbsup:


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

deesta said:


> Hi BryGuy,
> Unfortunately, because I did the programming in my head and not on the CADCAM I don't know the surface area. It would take me a while to do a 3D rendition and get all the grooves etc in place to be able to work it out..I think my Triple housing was about 12 square inches of area?
> Sorry I can't help more...
> 
> New project?? I'm always up for new projects......:thumbsup:


no worries on the surface area. I'm looking at 30sq. in. and change on that light there without any funny business, so with a bit of tweaking I think it'll be golden. I'll keep you posted if I can't get somebody to loan me a lathe/mill around here. :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I just had a quick measure and rough calculation and I get it to 
14000 square mm or 21.7 square inches of surface area..

This is fine with a gentle airflow but static it will trip in 5 minutes .if on full 700ma.


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> I just had a quick measure and rough calculation and I get it to
> 14000 square mm or 21.7 square inches of surface area..
> 
> This is fine with a gentle airflow but static it will trip in 5 minutes .if on full 700ma.


interesting...so I'll have 2x the wattage, but only 50% more surface area...back to the drawing board :madman:


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Got my housings yesterdays.

Really impressed with them: great work & many thanks Chris and deesta.

Was up to silly o'clock this morning building one of the housings. I'm using a stat led with the maxflex and having problems with that: hopefully just the wrong LED. 

Chris: how are you thinking of sealing the lexan front plate? Tolerances are so tight I can't see where I'd get any silicone.

Will post more detailed thoughts when I'm done.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

davew255 said:


> Got my housings yesterdays.
> 
> Really impressed with them: great work & many thanks Chris and deesta.
> 
> ...


I had to think about that one also Had me puzzled for a while and this is my method.

Along the top and bottom edge and facing out file a small bevel 
then on the ends but on the housing side file another small bevel

by small bevel I mean half a mm

remove the protection tape from the inside leave the tape on the outside now if you have got your bevel facing out your tape should be able to be removed easily after getting messy with silicon you dont want the tape trapped onder the lip as it will mess up the silicon when you remove it

Insert it in the front and slide it to one side and apply a small ammount of silicon this will go under the end when you push it the other way then repeat for the other end

you now have it sealed at both ends so squidge a bit in to the ends to make sure .

then holding the facia squidge silicon into the bevel top and bottom .
You have still got the tape on then I used a qtip to clean the edge up and the ends 
then when you are happy it is sealed remove the tape and let it cure


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Do I get a prize?

1 down  , 2 to go :eekster: 

Can't say I enjoyed the build but will enjoy rding with the thing!

Chris: how you are still sane after building 7 of them I'll never know! Maybe you've never been  

Dave


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.....

I just had a troutelite drop into the mail box!!!!

Absolutely amazing. Ridiculously tiny... I am giggling like a little school girl!

Superb work trout and deesta!


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

JimZinVT said:


> There's a "heat dissipation" thread going, and they're talking about a rule-of-thumb of either 1sq" or 3sq" of surface area per watt. Seems like this is way under that....any plans to cut grooves or fins into the case Mr. Trout? (trout fins?
> 
> JZ


JZ,
Sounds like you and I are the only one's out there asking these kinds of questions. If he isn't running at full power, it gains him a lot in the thermal practicality realm.

Also, has been my experience that those chips run pretty cool ...compared to the MCE which is a hot little beast!

FYI, The white paper I read from a manufacturer (think it was Luxeon) and it came to ~1 Sq" per watt. I've stuck to that figure and had very good luck myself ....and remember, the cooler the chip stays, the more light it will produce at a given current. The affect of running hot is VERY significant!


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Almost finished no.2. Easy when you know how...

Time for bed!


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

Beautiful machine job Deesta ...and hat's off once again to Trout's ingenuity and perseverance (not to mention seemingly bottomless pocket). I like the idea of the 2-XPE and 1 MCE. Seems to be a good compromise in cost/size/real world performance. And I thought I was done making lights ...my head has gears turning inside, DAM YOU GUYS!!!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Nice one Dave , have you done anything about waterproofing the connector .
like this . dont want it filling up with water .

also you cant see it under the wires but I have put a blob of silicon to support the maxflex against vibration










Cheers sdnative , 
They work just great at the full 700 ma when outdoors just not designed as a desk light 
cold to 50 degree trip in 5 mins .

I did a mce + 2 Xpe for a mate and it was a good light if a tad ugly .

Bloody hell Salty , that was fast , have you got anything to put in it yet.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Bloody hell Salty , that was fast , have you got anything to put in it yet.


:blush: No. I will press the Go button tonight at cutters. Not quite sure what to do about a switch and connector at this point. Obviously the deans connectors aren't going to do this build justice.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> :blush: No. I will press the Go button tonight at cutters. Not quite sure what to do about a switch and connector at this point. Obviously the deans connectors aren't going to do this build justice.


I am going flying lead for future builds it makes it easier to adapt for different battery connectors . and more importantly over here easier to waterproof.










I have just collected some from the anodisers and they look ace .


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

The anodising looks really nice :thumbsup:


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Wow I was already thinking about anodizing mine, now I am sold. Especially with Aaron04's home anodizing work showing up here, and all the electro chemistry experiments I did in college. I guess the big question now is orange or green.


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## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

I do like that in grey... lovely stuff.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Wowwwwwww, super nice job!!!!!!!

One question, what cable have you used, it is waterproof??










Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

I came home last night... saw a big box on the table with the mail, thought "maybe that's my Troutie/Deesta housing." Alas, no... it wasn't. 

Then I looked to the left of the bigger box. There was this little, teeny paper envelope with UK postage. Yeah! That's it. Open it up... that bad boy is tiny! I'm thrilled. 

I need to get the internals to build it, but I'm also curious about what folks are doing for cables/battery connectors. Obviously, those will need to be drilled out, etc. 

Oh, and I have to find my soldering gun since we moved a while back and it's in some unknown box 

But major props to Troutie and Deesta... when I get that thing going, *everyone* I ride with is going to want one...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

msxtr said:


> Wowwwwwww, super nice job!!!!!!!
> 
> One question, what cable have you used, it is waterproof??
> 
> ...


I have used standard twin cored cable and one of these strain reliefs with the zip tie for security and it is also glued in with sikaflex 221 sealant so yep is is very waterproof.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Troutie, its occurred to me that if the fins were dovetailed you could stack one on top of another, interlocking. For those times when 6 leds isn't enough. :ihih: 
Might make a nice bar mount system too and it increases surface area.

Dunno about the machining issues.


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Just posted this on deesta light build thread but may be useful to Troutlight builders.

*.................excerpt from the TaskLED maxFlex overview*
Note: There are 2 GND connections provided on the PCB, but most installations will require 4 connections to ground (Battery negative/ground, LED-, SW ground and ground for the STAT LED- if used). It is recommended to wire LED- and Battery negative to the same PCB ground hole and wire STAT LED- and SW ground to the other PCB ground point. Both PCB ground points are equivalent.
it is way easier to wire the LED- straight to the DC- supply socket, instead of the the same hole in the PCB[/QUOTE]

Found exactly the same on my Troutlight build: there was no way I was going to get 2 wires into each of the holes on the Maxflex (I also used a Stat LED).

So I wired the LED- and Battery- to the Maxflex, then the Stat LED- and one of the switch wires direct to the -ve of the power socket (as well as the Battery-). Works fine. Most 2.5mm DC sockets have 2 negative terminals: one disconnects when the plug is inserted. If you bridge these 2 (with a small piece of wire) both will be at Battery- and therefore you've got another contact to solder the wires to.


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Had mine out for a ride Thursday. As a bar mount, coupled with a 3xXRE R2 cutter narrow helmet light. Sorrry no beamshots yet. Couple of thoughts.

Firstly: great light: looks fantastic and very bright.

I ran with these optics: 3 narrow, 1 wide, 2 elliptical (1 rotated vertically, other horizontally). Very even but quite a wide beam. Bit too wide if anything for my taste. I'm going to replace at least one of the ellipticals with a narrow to try & get more punch.

1200ma (L5) setting on the Maxflex does not give much more light than L4 (1000ma-ish?) & yes: I know all about recommended currents. L4 is noticeably brighter than L3 (700ish?) though. I can't see a problem running at 1000ma for descents and will set that as my max current for next ride.

I've got a status LED warning me of low battery at 14v (14.4v NiMH). What confused me a bit was that even at near full charge the LED would light when run at 1200ma, but go off if I dropped to 1000ma. Anyone explain this? Anyone know safe discharge limits of NiMH cells?

Troutie supplied switch is very nice: thanks.

One more tip when wiring up: keep those wires short (see Trouties housing pic above) to avoid having to cram spaghetti junction inside the housing.

As to waterproofness of the power sockets: I haven't had any issues with the 2.5mm DC sockets on my 'old' lights (but never looked inside to check if any water has got in): can't see any problems with a bit of silicone to help.

Water could possibly get in between the base & top of the housing. Think I might put some thermal grease inbetween to help waterproofing and heat transfer.


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Lego my Eggo...*



znomit said:


> Troutie, its occurred to me that if the fins were dovetailed you could stack one on top of another, interlocking. For those times when 6 leds isn't enough. :ihih:
> Might make a nice bar mount system too and it increases surface area.


Ummm, Lego Lights... That's an interesting concept.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> I have used standard twin cored cable and one of these strain reliefs with the zip tie for security and it is also glued in with sikaflex 221 sealant so yep is is very waterproof.


Thanks for the answer 

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

> I've got a status LED warning me of low battery at 14v (14.4v NiMH).
> What confused me a bit was that even at near full charge the LED would light when run at 1200ma, but go off if I dropped to 1000ma.
> Anyone explain this? Anyone know safe discharge limits of NiMH cells?


what size/capacity of your cells? ..... voltage sag?


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## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> I am going flying lead for future builds it makes it easier to adapt for different battery connectors . and more importantly over here easier to waterproof.


That's a good idea ;-)


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

davew255 said:


> I've got a status LED warning me of low battery at 14v (14.4v NiMH). What confused me a bit was that even at near full charge the LED would light when run at 1200ma, but go off if I dropped to 1000ma. Anyone explain this? Anyone know safe discharge limits of NiMH cells?


That'll be the voltage drop in the cable from your battery to the light. If you want an accurate status warning, you will have to measure the voltage at the battery and at the light - once the battery hits your lower limit, set the warning on the MaxFlex to whatever is actually delivered to the light. Or you could measure the cable resistance and do some simple maths


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

neilt said:


> That'll be the voltage drop in the cable from your battery to the light. If you want an accurate status warning, you will have to measure the voltage at the battery and at the light - once the battery hits your lower limit, set the warning on the MaxFlex to whatever is actually delivered to the light. Or you could measure the cable resistance and do some simple maths


Thanks: that's helpful. I did test the voltage at the power connector to the light (when disconnected from the light and it was over 15V, but the Maxflex status LED indicated that the voltage at the board was less than 14V when pushing 1200ma to the LEDs. So does the amount of voltage drop in the cable depend on the current?

Hendo: 12 AA cells (NiMH) 2.4ah 14.4v. What's voltage sag?


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

davew255 said:


> 1200ma (L5) setting on the Maxflex does not give much more light than L4 (1000ma-ish?)
> 
> I've got a status LED warning me of low battery at 14v (14.4v NiMH). What confused me a bit was that even at near full charge the LED would light when run at 1200ma, but go off if I dropped to 1000ma. Anyone explain this? Anyone know safe discharge limits of NiMH cells?


Both of the above may be related. My guess is you're demanding too much current from the battery at the high setting. I don't know the science or math, but I had the same issue with my little 2 x XR-E helmet light running off a 4.8v (4xAA) NiMH pack. When on high the voltage would drop dramatically. Two fixes were suggested here and they both worked: doubling the capacity of the pack (8xAA 4s2p) or using Eneloop AAs, which apparently can supply current at a higher rate. Maybe a bigger NiMh, or lithium is the answer?

JZ


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Ahh, I see you're using AAs, so going with the Eneloops could be the answer. They are a little lower capacity (2000mAh) but can supply the current at a higher rate. The _white-topped _Duracells are supposed to be re-labled Eneloops too....that's what I'm using. I don't have the link but there's info on the CPF site. Search for "low self-discharge"....there's a thread comparing a bunch of these type of AAs.

JZ


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

> 12 AA cells (NiMH) 2.4ah 14.4v.


yep as i suspected, aa cells dont have enough guts, 
when you load them they find it really hard to keep up so the voltage sags...
you have definitely got the warning status set on the high side for 12 nmh pack..


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

JimZinVT said:


> I don't know the science or math, but I had the same issue with my little 2 x XR-E helmet light running off a 4.8v (4xAA)...
> JZ


Batteries have internal resistance so their output voltage drops as current goes up. Theres a small amount in cables too but it shouldn't be significant.

I never found a good setting for the voltage warning on my bflex lights as the NiMH batt voltage went up/down significantly with drive level. :madman:

Thread mentioned above is here, Silverfox NiMH battery shootout.
The charts say it all. Also note total capacity reduces as you up the current. So a 1A setting will last more than twice as long as 2A setting.


_Edited with correct URL!_


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

davew255 said:


> Had mine out for a ride Thursday. As a bar mount, coupled with a 3xXRE R2 cutter narrow helmet light. Sorrry no beamshots yet. Couple of thoughts.
> 
> Firstly: great light: looks fantastic and very bright.
> 
> ...


Cheers Dave for the short write up , glad you are happy and the feedback is appreciated 
specialy on the different optics .
which bar mount have you used .

thermal grease would be good if only to help the heat transfer.
how did it cope @ 1200ma . that is pushing the envelope a tad I think , not so much extra light but loads of heat .

I must admit I have never been bothered with the stat led . keep it simple for me .

LoL at Znomit idea 
and funny cos i have wondered about having a hipflex in with the battery and making some smaller head units that could be daisy chained together upto max capacity .
could do that with the triples maybe.

Any one else got theirs yet getting worried about all the ones I posted out and not heard that they have arrived.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

mine arrived next day.....:thumbsup: 
but its no go until my XP-E arrive from cutter....
i`ve just posted a question to George re the maxFlex you may be interested
http://taskled.com/forum/index.php?topic=228.0


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes Hendo it can be a pain trying to hold the maxflex in place while the AAA sets can make 5 mins seem like an eternity .

The only problem I see with using the pad stuff is how do you mechanicaly fix the maxflex
to squish it down on to the pad


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## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Wow.

My light just arrived and I'm amazed by how small it is. The pictures of the light on a playing card give you an idea of size but it's not until you have actually have it in your hands do you understand how small it is.

Troutie and Deesta - fab stuff guys  

:thumbsup:


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Hey Harpoon,

Glad you're impressed with it...it is pretty small!! Have fun building it up :thumbsup:


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## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

I took the cheats option Steve and had Chris build it. All I've got to do is put a power connector on the fly lead (Amp SuperSeal in my case).


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Ooh, you little cheat you  Mind you, I can't talk....Chris is wiring up a triple MCE version of my casing for me:thumbsup:


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Canada post left a little something on my doorstep [and it wasn't the usual bag of flaming ****]. I can't believe how small these things are!

yes, this post is exactly the same as my other one - both sets of housings arrived at the same time!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

pinkrobe said:


> Canada post left a little something on my doorstep [and it wasn't the usual bag of flaming ****]. I can't believe how small these things are!
> 
> yes, this post is exactly the same as my other one - both sets of housings arrived at the same time!


Great worries starting to go away a bit now 
Have you got bits to put in them yet .


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

Yippeee! It finally arrived. Very Nice. Thanks for the switch too. A perfect compliment to the design. It Now to order the guts. I am on work travel for a bit so by the time I return the package from Cutter should be waiting. By then the weather and my schedule should be more conducive to riding. Thanks for a brilliant design and workmenship by Troutie and Deesta. BTW this is already the 7th light I have built since January, I got the bug really bad>>>


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> Great worries starting to go away a bit now
> Have you got bits to put in them yet .


Indeed, I ordered from Cutter after they posted up the price for the Troutlite Kit, so the bits were here two weeks ago. The first build of three happens this weekend...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Southern Adventurer said:


> Yippeee! It finally arrived. Very Nice. Thanks for the switch too. A perfect compliment to the design. It Now to order the guts. I am on work travel for a bit so by the time I return the package from Cutter should be waiting. By then the weather and my schedule should be more conducive to riding. Thanks for a brilliant design and workmenship by Troutie and Deesta. BTW this is already the 7th light I have built since January, I got the bug really bad>>>


Whoa great at last , I think there are still a few traveling as not all have said they have recieved them yet.

Just need some build ups and ride reports to come in and also any ways to improve it .


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## mr-dither (Jul 14, 2008)

FFFOOOoooooookkk Me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Troutie great job mate !, loving the light... soooo much i'm using it alone with nothing else as it's that' good !!..

so now decomissiong the old bar mounted light.

you deserve to have a grin from ear to ear as this is top notch, great design worth every penny.. keep up the good work mate.. took it out monday for test run.. could not be happier !!!!..

also can you mail me about the old light i have ?. i may see if you can knock me up some kind of head mount and change optic for more of a spot than wide flood for a mate of mine - open to suggestions what do ya think about it ?... will cht more on email m8..

Cheers
Rhino.


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## mtbdawgJeff (Jul 27, 2004)

My housing arrived yesterday here in the states. That thing is a work of art. Nice job Troutie and Deesta. :thumbsup:

This should be a great weekend. My local trails have finally dried up, so its riding during the day... Light building in the evenings.


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## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

I can hardly see the keyboard at the moment - I just wired a connector on to my light and turned it on.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Well the weekend is nearly over so do we have some builds to see yet .

:yesnod: I was working fitting some floor tiles for a customer ( cos that is my day job )
and he saw my light on my helmet . He is a roady and commutes every day and had just had his lights stolen off of his bike , Yep you guessed it he wants one to replace his stolen lights . but for his helmet and with tail lights built in .

so here she is next to the very first proto .
there is no switch for the red leds as reale estate ran out so they are on when the battery is connected

I had to run the power and wsitch on the sides also but I do think it looks pretty neat .

and the build up is nearly finished on my website in the tutorials


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

Using some (stainless) 5mm (correct?) LED holders would make them even sharper looking!


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I finished my first build [of 3] this morning. Then I went to the pub.  When I can remember where my camera is, I will post pics of the inside. There's not much point posting beam shots, as it is 2-spot 4-elliptical.


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## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

Troutie did you use 5 mm leds? In the past I used Snapleds and Superflux leds from Luxeon, they are both quite a lot brighter with the same current then high quality 5 mm leds. The only downside is that it's a lot harder to put them in a housing.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

super-fast said:


> Troutie did you use 5 mm leds? In the past I used Snapleds and Superflux leds from Luxeon, they are both quite a lot brighter with the same current then high quality 5 mm leds. The only downside is that it's a lot harder to put them in a housing.


I used these 5 mm leds 
mainly cos they are cheap and easy to use just glue into a 5 mm hole and it is nice and waterproof
they are amazingly bright


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

what was the reason for not wiring them in parallel with the power LEDs so they are only on with the main light?

Toby


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

tobymack said:


> what was the reason for not wiring them in parallel with the power LEDs so they are only on with the main light?
> 
> Toby


2 reasons really 
reason 1 was the main leds are up in the 19 volt region and would have needed a bigger resistor , which I dont have

and reason 2 is the guy is a everyday comuter and may not want the front light on but still want the rears on 
I did want to have a switch but ran out of space and could not find a small enough on off switch.


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

makes sense, ta.

Toby


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Hey, thought you might find the following interesting..
on my build i opted for a nFlex driver and a 6series li-ion, 25v x 2500mah, battery pack
so the max current is 1000ma to the LEDs
i prefer the UIF/UIP interface and
so heres some current tables for the 8 level UIF
the meter is between the battery and driver ...

off ....









level 1









level 2









level 3









level 4









level 5









level 6









level 7









level 8, brightest


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## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

That's sweet Hendo. Certainly interesting readings. Looks like it's getting quite a workout at 1000 mAH, but it's nice to see the relative draw at those settings.


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## mtbikerTi (Jan 15, 2004)

So where can one purchase XPE's and their optics in the US? Or do I have to order from Cutter? I've searched and digi key has the emitters but it would cost about the same to ship from Cutter...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I got some of the medium optics to try so here are the comparison shots

I will try and add a shot with 6 eliptical optics tonight .

..............................................first up is the 6 Q5 xpe and narrow optics................................................and next is the 6 R2 xpe and the medium optics


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## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

Interesting... there's certainly more punch with the narrows way down the trail, but the mediums give the whole trail a more uniform lighting. 

How far away is the tree and post from your camera location?

Which one do you like better in practice? Beamshots are nice... real-world reviews while moving are a close second.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


>


It looks rather like an MCE


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

racerdave said:


> Interesting... there's certainly more punch with the narrows way down the trail, but the mediums give the whole trail a more uniform lighting.
> 
> How far away is the tree and post from your camera location?
> 
> Which one do you like better in practice? Beamshots are nice... real-world reviews while moving are a close second.


Dave the tree on the left is 35 mtres and the post 40 ish 
the trees on the right are 75 metres oand the ones in the far distance are 150 mtres..

I like the 6 narrow for the helmet it is ace for spotting wildlife and generally being a nosey sod .
and when I do one for the bars I like to mix them up 2 narrow 2 elips and 2 mediums .
as they are the only 3 types I have at the moment .
that is what I like about them you can make your own custom beam pattern.

Hey Salty I wish I could get a MCE to do a beam like that I would probably never have gone on to the Xpes if the mce had thrown that good


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## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

Troutie:

Saudaçoes do Brasil - greetings from Brazil, excuse me for my poor english.

I´ve been reading this topic since the beginning and all i can say is "fantastic".

In your last post you wrote "when I do one for the bars", how do you attach this lights to your bar?

BrunoBB
www.serradacanastra.tur.br


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

*making my head hurt*

At the moment I am trying to figure out how to rig up an internal switch in the electronics compartment so I can switch between 3S2P and series wiring. the switch should not be made with the light running obviously so making it internal ought to provide the appropriate protection. I am going to have a lot more tiny holes and wires running around that much is for sure.

I am hoping that by disconnecting the battery with the thing running and then opening the compartment and flipping the switch and then reconnecting the battery with some time in between there will not be any led frying voltage spikes. I also am hoping some with some one more EE savy will chime in here other wise i will have to bug george again. I really cant afford to fry 6 xp-e.

Please check my wiring on the attached graphic. The little black circles are the xp-e, big round one is the max flex, with only the output to led shown for simplicity, and the square with 6 pins is the switch.

Thinking out loud.......
Of course it would also be cool to wire up a dx multi mode buck constant current driver in parallel with the max flex to my battery to make a single 1 watt red led strobe on the back. but that also adds yet another switch, and I can only find this driver thats rated to 4 cell lion 
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1640 
and it only has on/off mode so i would have too add a piggy back module borrowed form one of these - 
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10084
in order to make it flash.

I think I am going to have too choose between the wiring switch, which makes the light workable with 2, 3, 4, and 5 cell lion batteries or the 1 watt blinking red tail light. There just isn't enough room for every thing, and I already have a very nice tail light on my bike. Plus I currently have a 2 cell battery and a 4 cell battery but for simplicitys sake I will eventually get another 4 cell, probably a turbo ferret one so the switch seems more necessary.


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## sturmey (Sep 2, 2008)

Just a quick thank you to Chris for wiring up my light last night after all my good intentions went to pot and had to call in some help. I went for all narrow optics the throw is superb just waiting for a battery from smudge then its back to night riding and promoting the light for Chris. Thanks again.


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

bikerjay said:


> Please check my wiring on the attached graphic.


The diagram looks right to me.....6s one way, 3s2p the other. Is this to make it compatible with various battery voltages?

I'm not qualified to answer your other questions. :lol:

JZ


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

> am hoping that by disconnecting the battery with the thing running and then opening the compartment
> and flipping the switch and then reconnecting the battery with some time in between there will not be any led frying voltage spikes


........ i`ll have a pint of what your drinking, Cheers  :crazy:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

bikerjay said:


> At the moment I am trying to figure out how to rig up an internal switch in the electronics compartment so I can switch between 3S2P.


I think like this (though I got lazy drawing the LEDs). Three pole three throw switch. Note the centre off position cuts power to the maxflex during switching.

Maybe caps on each set of leds to soak up any spikes?


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

[edit] D`oh... i can`t even add up! :crazy: cheers super-fast


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

BrunoBB said:


> Troutie:
> 
> Saudaçoes do Brasil - greetings from Brazil, excuse me for my poor english.
> 
> ...


Hi Brunobb 
sorry for the delay in answering you I been away for a couple of days.

there is extra metal inside the base which can be drilled for a mounting bracket.
like the one shown . 
I now have a few in stock which I ordered on 17 feb just came in yesterday


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## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> no you couldn`t use a 2 cell 7.2v sattery, the input current would exceed the max spec http://www.taskled.com/techmaxflex.html


Why not, with 3 leds in series the total forward voltage would be somewhere around 10V. That would lead to a input current of 1.7-1.9 ampere, that is clearly within the maximum of 3A.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> [edit] D`oh... i can`t even add up! :crazy: cheers super-fast


Nice videos and nice place. What confituration use you with your light? 3 MC-E's??

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Yes, 3 x MC-E M bin WH tint from cutter, white with a teeny hint of vanilla, yummy


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

So I finally wired up my troutelite and everthing is ready to go..... but I ran out of AA after gluing the LED's and didn't have enough left to mount the maxflex :incazzato:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> So I finally wired up my troutelite and everthing is ready to go..... but I ran out of AA after gluing the LED's and didn't have enough left to mount the maxflex :incazzato:


Hell Salty could you not break apart the sringes for that last bit


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hell Salty could you not break apart the sringes for that last bit


No joy, the remaining stuff was all skanky.

I think I have a dud wire on the maxflex as well. I test powered it while hand holding it on the heat sink post and it was fine until I moved it then it went haywire. One of the wires was a ghetto mom.


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

I got home late last night from several weeks of travel to find my order from Cutter on my desk. I completed the build today between playing with the kids and doing the Honey Do list. All was fine and the light burned brightly... until I dropped it..... no physical damage that I can tell, but now I only get a very dim glow off of the leds. I pushed the button like mad thinking I was in a menu option. No luck. I finally pried the MAXFLEX off of the post and found that I pushed a bit of AA into the area around "R12" and the "STAT" when I mounted it. Since AA in Non-conductive, I doubt it shorted and fried the driver. What is really strange though is if I squeeze it between my thumb and for finger it gets bright (L3 or L4). I checked and rechecked all of the leads and they are sound. Wiggling them does does not reproduce the jump in brightness either, Strange. Any Advice?? I am afraid I just cost myself $50 for a new MAXFLEX>:madman:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Southern Adventurer said:


> I got home late last night from several weeks of travel to find my order from Cutter on my desk. I completed the build today between playing with the kids and doing the Honey Do list. All was fine and the light burned brightly... until I dropped it..... no physical damage that I can tell, but now I only get a very dim glow off of the leds. I pushed the button like mad thinking I was in a menu option. No luck. I finally pried the MAXFLEX off of the post and found that I pushed a bit of AA into the area around "R12" and the "STAT" when I mounted it. Since AA in Non-conductive, I doubt it shorted and fried the driver. What is really strange though is if I squeeze it between my thumb and for finger it gets bright (L3 or L4). I checked and rechecked all of the leads and they are sound. Wiggling them does does not reproduce the jump in brightness either, Strange. Any Advice?? I am afraid I just cost myself $50 for a new MAXFLEX>:madman:


Thats a sod , I would get in touch with George @ taskled and see if it can be repaired 
or it may be fubared but would be good to find out what has happened as the same could be the result of a stack on the bike .
can you check the component that makes it work when squeezed might have a dry joint or something .

Though yours will be a maxflex 3 so they are well tried and tested


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

Good idea to send it over to George. It isn't doing me any good. Can you IM me his email? 
I de-soldered all of the conections and pulled it out of the case. I soldered on all new connections and am still having the same results. It only comes on when I touch it on two areas simultaneously, but it only lights up and won't respond to any inputs at the switch. It varies in brightness depending on how much pressure I apply. It has me stumped.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

ocean breathes salty said:


> No joy, the remaining stuff was all skanky.
> 
> I think I have a dud wire on the maxflex as well. I test powered it while hand holding it on the heat sink post and it was fine until I moved it then it went haywire. One of the wires was a ghetto mom.


Well, that suspect wire must have been a short or something as the light going haywire was actually the death throws of a maxflex. I resoldered the connections and plugged it all in and ..... NIL.

I was going to use it for 'the mont' this weekend aswell... sigh.


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Are you guys wiring your power sockets centre positive? 

On my first LED lightset I used a 2.5mm DC power socket wiring centre negative (like Lumicycles) which made the housing at +V. Real easy to touch the driver onto the housing and shorted out damaging the driver.

SInce changed to centre positive and no more problems.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Yah, I use center positive whenever I use DC jacks.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

davew255 said:


> Are you guys wiring your power sockets centre positive?
> 
> On my first LED lightset I used a 2.5mm DC power socket wiring centre negative (like Lumicycles) which made the housing at +V. Real easy to touch the driver onto the housing and shorted out damaging the driver.
> 
> SInce changed to centre positive and no more problems.


No power socket... dangly leads with female Deans.

The problem for me is that I am an idiot and hadn't yet glued in the maxflex but wanted to play around with it a little. So I was manually holding it against the heat sink post and I am assuming I moved it and shorted some components on the board. Light flickered rapidly then saw a small puff of smoke..... end of maxflex.

Now, If i had glued it in before playing around with it in such proximity to a lovely shiny metal casing, then I think all would have ended well.

I can get the maxflex to light if I press on one of the components. The harder I press it, the more light is produced. I can still access the menu options etc If pressing on the part for long enough. Oh well, back to the drawing board.


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## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

You should always wire the center pole so it is positive. It is the same with wire colors, always use red for the positive wires and black for everything going to the ground. Otherwise you get crazy when you have to trouble shoot it


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## sturmey (Sep 2, 2008)

Big thank you to Troutie. Just got back from my first night ride in a long time and first ride with the new light. Ran it on the bars with 6 narrow optics, most of the ride I only needed it on low 350mah just turned it up to 750mah for the down hills and when messing just to see how bright it is. Iam using a battery pack from smudge he has stacked the battery pack into a cube shape so it fits neatly under the stem . Great job guys night riding has just become more fun.


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

ocean breathes salty said:


> I can get the maxflex to light if I press on one of the components. The harder I press it, the more light is produced. I can still access the menu options etc If pressing on the part for long enough. Oh well, back to the drawing board.


Salty, I am experiencing the same or similar with mine. Frustrating, at best. This is my first experience with anything other than a BuckPuck. I wish there was a BuckPuck large enough to handle the load....:madman:


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## bikeknots (Apr 5, 2009)

This is my first post so bear with me. Only came across this thread about a day ago. Just an amazing light! Are they still available (I hope so) and if so how can I order one? The bike mounted version would be what I would want. Housing kit or otherwise, just let me know. Waiting in anticipation.

Mark Devereux
[email protected]


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bikeknots said:


> This is my first post so bear with me. Only came across this thread about a day ago. Just an amazing light! Are they still available (I hope so) and if so how can I order one? The bike mounted version would be what I would want. Housing kit or otherwise, just let me know. Waiting in anticipation.
> 
> Mark Devereux
> [email protected]


Hi Mark , and Welcome to the asylem .

Yes I have 4 plain ali and 4 anodised gunmetal grey left before I need to get steve to make me some more ..
If you are ok with soldering then it would be cheapest to get a housing and the kit from cutters as your profile says you are in OZ

Though I do have all the bits to supply it as a kit or built up .( I must update my website )

It would appear my add has expired so I will have to renew it send me an email on [email protected] and I will give you the prices .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Southern Adventurer said:


> Salty, I am experiencing the same or similar with mine. Frustrating, at best. This is my first experience with anything other than a BuckPuck. I wish there was a BuckPuck large enough to handle the load....:madman:


What a bummer for you and salty have you tried george at taskled to see if they are fixable .

You could always go 3s2p and use a Bflex there is enough metal to open it out with a dremel to get a bflex in there .or a recom led it be driver I think they do a 1200ma now 
so you would get 600ma per string. but you would have to be the heat monitor


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> You could always go 3s2p and use a Bflex
> there is enough metal to open it out with a dremel to get a bflex in there


troutie, there is loads of room as it is for an nFlex driver
i`ve been running one of your lights 6s @ 1000ma on an nFlex with a 6 cell battery pack no heat issue (10 c ambient) ....
or go 3s2p @ 500ma on a 4 cell battery pack ...


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## mega_kas (Dec 29, 2008)

Hiya - Firstly what a great thread and troutie what a great bit of kit you've sent me. :thumbsup: 

I'm a complete beginner at soldering and anything electrical and am looking for a bit of advice with my build....

I've AAd the LEDs to the casing, soldered them in series and test wired the maxflex.
When I powered it all up I got no light. So got the multimeter out and started testing.

On a diode test I can get an LED to light dimly by touching the multimeter probe to anode and cathod of the LED. The first 5 LEDS light OK. 

The 6th one (with the negative lead to gnd on the maxflex) will not light.

I think maybe one of two things has happened:
-either my clumsy soldering has fried this led
-my test wiring on the maxflex has fired the maxflex.

Can anyone suggest my next step please? Is there a way to test the maxflex?
Can't wait to get this thing working and am enjoying learning a bit along the way. :thumbsup:


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

> On a diode test I can get an LED to light dimly by touching the multimeter probe to anode and cathod of the LED. The first 5 LEDS light OK.
> The 6th one (with the negative lead to gnd on the maxflex) will not light.


to complete the circuit you have to have all connected leds working, this would be the first thing to do ....


> -my test wiring on the maxflex has fired the maxflex.


...... tell us more, test wiring?


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## mega_kas (Dec 29, 2008)

test wiring - I didn't solder anything and didn't bond maxflex to heatsink.

I realise now this was a daft thing to do as I've probably shorted something and killed the maxflex.

Ok so step one is getting 6 leds working. I tried to pass the ground lead to maxflex from working LED #5 but that didn't seem to improve things.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

if you didn`t solder the wires then it wouldn`t work
you can solder it up and test run it without bonding to heatsink


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

I don't know the maxflex at all, but a lot of drivers will fry if powered up without being connected to the led string. If a wire slipped off during your non-soldered test run it could be cooked?

JZ


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

JimZinVT said:


> I don't know the maxflex at all, but a lot of drivers will fry if powered up without being connected to the led string. If a wire slipped off during your non-soldered test run it could be cooked?
> 
> JZ


Its idiot proof.
_
"Open circuit protected (boosts to 24V maximum)."
Reverse Polarity Protected (New V4 feature)._
http://www.taskled.com/maxflex.html


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

znomit said:


> Its idiot proof.


Cool. Even more so than a buckpuck (reverse polarity protection).

JZ


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

znomit said:


> Its idiot proof.
> _
> "Open circuit protected (boosts to 24V maximum)."
> Reverse Polarity Protected (New V4 feature)._
> http://www.taskled.com/maxflex.html


idiot proof, but not salty proof 

Hi, I'm Salty... King of the idiots


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Well I managed to cook an led with the b-flex. Here is how, my test connection to the single test led was faulty and opened for a brief period during testing, didn't hurt the b-flex, but the single led got a huge ~13+ V spike when the circuit closed again. I think the maxflex would do the same if the circuit to the led opened momentarily on reconnection it would deliver a spike of the max voltage it boosts to so around 24V I believe.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I am sure I have seen in the past where a flex has been damaged due to ( test wiring) and not soldering the wires in . might even have been in the taskled forum .

too much potential for shorts with all those wires flapping around un soldered

Never had a problem with it not being connected to the heatsink for test firing when it is connected as it powers up on the lowest setting .

Kas if you get desperate send it back to me I have some maxflexs and leds in stock 
so I can get it working for you and send it back for finishing .


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Hi, I'm Salty... King of the idiots


Ha, I doubt that!
We all have out moments!


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> idiot proof, but not salty proof
> 
> Hi, I'm Salty... King of the idiots


Salty, you're not alone.......I blew up my bFlex 2 days ago.

A little puff of smoke, nasty smell, then order another one and spend more money


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## bikeknots (Apr 5, 2009)

*Email question*

Troutie, was this email address correct ([email protected]) as I am wondering did you receive my email?

Mark D



bikeknots said:


> This is my first post so bear with me. Only came across this thread about a day ago. Just an amazing light! Are they still available (I hope so) and if so how can I order one? The bike mounted version would be what I would want. Housing kit or otherwise, just let me know. Waiting in anticipation.
> 
> Mark Devereux
> [email protected]


----------



## abacojeff (Aug 17, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Yes I have 4 plain ali and 4 anodised gunmetal grey left before I need to get steve to make me some more ..
> 
> Though I do have all the bits to supply it as a kit or built up .( I must update my website )


Hi Troutie... Short time lurker, fourth time poster!

I've been poking aroung the DIY forum for a little while. Since I don't have a lot of time for new projects (re-building the bathroom is first priority since a shortage of shower and 'hygene' facilities isn't going over well with the missus) :ciappa: - but you've made it too tempting not to do a build! :thumbsup:

I was surprised to see that you still have some housings around (I hope)... I'm going to send you an e:mail to confirm if you have 2 ano, 2 switches, and whatever else fiddley bits that might be fun to pick up.

P.S. for misc reasons I prefer to go with 7.4V... I know a maxflex can handle 6S at that voltage - but efficiency goes down and heat up.

Has anybody that you know of gone 3S2P and taken a chance with thermal runaway?

Has anybody you know of tried to stuff 2 maxflexes (maxflexae?) in the case and run two separate strings of 3S? Other than a big hit on cost and maybe not fitting in the case... this could lead to some interesting configurations, independent dimming, 1/2 on + 1/2 blinky, etc...

Regards from sunny So-Cal


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Hello abacojeff, i`m running mine 6series on a nFlex driver + 6cell (25v) battery pack
here in cold uk you can easy run em at 1000ma!
Regards, from a cold,dull, drizzley wet, wished i didn`t live here its always flirkin raining, Lincolnshire England


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Oh Dear this one is not a happy light*

This poor guy seems to have been struggleing with his soldering iron . 
he has sent it to me to save what I can save

early checking it seems only 2 leds work dont know about the maxflex yet untill I get everything desoldered.


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## mega_kas (Dec 29, 2008)

You got it then Chris? :blush: 

It must be frustrating seeing my butchery of your work. Thanks for getting me out of this mess. :thumbsup: 

I did the initial soldering of the leds quite neatly but when things started to go wrong I made it much worse by trying to get it working late one Saturday night...........:madman: 
That resulted in the two fried leds at the right hand side and the hurried soldering on the maxflex. 

This is the first time I've done any soldering and in fact the first electrical project. The hardest tasks were soldering the maxflex and trying to solder the led pads such that the iron tip didn't touch the led itself and the solder didn't sit too high to foul the optics. Any tips?

I'll take a bit more care next time and prehaps practice a bit of soldering before diving straight in.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Kas yes I just been down the sorting office to collect it this morning .

only tips I can say is flux , cleanlyness , and practice a little .
it also helps to warm the housing up with say a hairdryer before soldering to the leds after they are glued in 

I have my fingers crossed for the maxflex but wont know till tonight


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Looks like one of my early attempts


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## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

I feel your pain as well Kas.

I've bought some cheap stripboard so I can practise my soldering on something other than flex controllers


----------



## mega_kas (Dec 29, 2008)

Harpoon said:


> I feel your pain as well Kas.
> 
> I've bought some cheap stripboard so I can practise my soldering on something other than flex controllers


Ordered some! :thumbsup:

Will check out your blog.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Kas .
I have checked out the maxflex and it is a bit poorly , 
it will power up leds but it wont let me into the menus or change levels .
it is sending 395ma to the leds 
so it is not dead just a bit dead. . 
also early indications are 3 live leds and 3 very dead ones , hoping I can get the dead ones out and keep the good ones alive .

so I can replace the Maxflex . and post the ill one off to George @ Taskled to see if it is viable to repair if it is then you will have a repaired one for your next time .

Is that ok with you


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## mega_kas (Dec 29, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hi Kas .
> I have checked out the maxflex and it is a bit poorly ,
> it will power up leds but it wont let me into the menus or change levels .
> it is sending 395ma to the leds
> ...


Yep - you're getting me out of a hole here so that's fine with me. If I get another maxflex then that is a bonus for next attempt. send me an email and we can sort money out.

Are the dead leds #1, 5 and 6? that's what my multimeter was telling me.

cheers.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

mega_kas said:


> Yep - you're getting me out of a hole here so that's fine with me. If I get another maxflex then that is a bonus for next attempt. send me an email and we can sort money out.
> 
> Are the dead leds #1, 5 and 6? that's what my multimeter was telling me.
> 
> cheers.


OK will do may get it in the post tomoz or latest monday .

yes they are the deceased leds ( rip) :sad:


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

practise makes perfect. Also use different colour wires there easier to follow and maybe a thinner gauge or high temp type would also help.

Troutie, how about putting a grade on high good youre building expertise has to be is on youre kits? ie 1 star when its more or less 100% built to 5 stars for a complete kit? Just an idea.


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## cycleboy (Mar 10, 2008)

I wonder if the solder and iron used were fairly large for the working space?

I used a pretty fine tip on the iron (like a ballpoint pen that comes to an actual point) and solder of 0.031" diameter. Even though the solder was rosin core, I used separate paste flux to help with flow.

Also, did you put the solder on the iron, then the iron on the parts, or try to put solder and iron on parts?

I had my wife (who's an expert solderer for her work) do the first connection or 2, then I did the rest following her example and they came out pretty decent and small enough.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Not a bad idea Smudge. I may get steve to do a small mod and go for the square boards as you can do the solder bridges easier out of the casing.

here is a good soldering tutorial I read it and it helped me when I first started soldering.

also I can officially say Arctic alumina epoxy sticks way better to anodized ali than plain 
I had a hell of a job removing the stuff from Kas`s light


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

cycleboy said:


> Even though the solder was rosin core, *I used separate paste flux *to help with flow


arghhhhhhh ... i really hope it wasn`t acid based,
looks totally harmless, 
but it`s a ticking corrosion time bomb on your expensive LED and driver traces and wires, 
so never be tempted, leave it to the plumbing! ......

Inorganic Acid-Based Flux......
Inorganic Acid fluxes have the highest activity. 
Therefore, they are suited for the most difficult to solder applications. 
These fluxes also have highly corrosive residues.

.............................http://www.frymetals.com/products/chemicals_rosin.html?product=rosin


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## cycleboy (Mar 10, 2008)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> arghhhhhhh ... i really hope it wasn`t acid based,
> looks totally harmless,
> but it`s a ticking corrosion time bomb on your expensive LED and driver traces and wires,
> so never be tempted, leave it to the plumbing! ......
> ...


Are you thinking of mine or the one w/ the blown LEDs and whatnot? Mine's safe being as my solder expert borrowed it from work. Not sure about the one Troutie is examining.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have just had the last few of the run of troutlights black anodised as black seems to be popular.
though I much prefer the grey ones and have kept one back for me .










also I made a little tab so it can be mounted on my Hope faceplate so frees up some bar space for more lights if needed


















I just need to make a holder to slot on to the bottom of the plate for the battery .
though looking at the pics it may be better to put the tab on the back of the light which will lower the profile a bit more


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Looking good Mr T. I think the Hope plates are a good way to go. Everything is kept below the grips in case of punctures/crashes etc when the bike needs to be turned over (or not in the case of a crash) so the light housing would get some protection. 
The black ano does look nice but i do prefer the grey


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

BIG hope stem plate fan here! 
+1 on the back / low profile option ...
....where would the switch dc supply fit?


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## abacojeff (Aug 17, 2008)

*Thanks Mr. Trout...*

You da man!

Although it's already been said... just got to add my congrats and thanks for the 2 housings.

When I opened the box and saw in person how gorgeous the little buggers were, the first thing that popped into my brainstem was - I should have ordered a couple more! It will be fun building them up!

By the way, exactly 1 week to get from the UK to Kalifornia.

A couple of thoughts...

*It'd be nice if you had an option for the bottom cover without the helmet strap 'loops'*...

I'm thinking about going with the Cateye or Marwi mounts that have a base plate that allows docking to a handle bar mount or a helmet mount. The mounts would stay permanently on the bars and/or on my spare helmet.

This means I'll be able to switch from bar to helmet with a minimum of muss and fuss... and I wouldn't have to mess with aligning the light on the helmet - set it once and I'm done.

For people using a Cateye or Marwi type mount, elimination of the strap loops would make the case a little more streamlined.

*Have you thought about an option for mounting the switch on the top?*

If a couple of cooling fins were milled down, the switch would fit quite nicely on the top. The height of the switch would just barely protrude over the height of the fins... which would be perfect for locating the switch by 'touch' and allowing just enough room to give it a little clickie.

Of course, the downside is you'd have to offer "customization" or stock a couple of varieties of the case.

P.S. for the people getting the switch from you, it might be nice to have some color options... red, blue, green    in addition to basic black?

Anyway, Let me end my post the way I began... THANKS!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> BIG hope stem plate fan here!
> +1 on the back / low profile option ...
> ....where would the switch dc supply fit?


A hope adaptor is quite easy to make either under or on the back

as for switch it was not reccomended to be on top as it acts like a resovoir for any water and the Apem rep said it could get past the seals over time .

I like the switch on the side and power socket on the other side then it leaves the back for some red leds if needed. or a troutlight sticker:thumbsup:

Jeff. Nice and quick the postie also one made it to OZ in less than a week :thumbsup:

thanks for the feedback its all good for improvements.
you can cut the strap loops off as it is underneath and would nt show.

switch colour is doable in the future


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## abacojeff (Aug 17, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> as for switch it was not recommended to be on top as it acts like a resovoir for any water and the Apem rep said it could get past the seals over time .


Are you talking about rane...

rayne...

rain...

I've heard of the stuff. Water falls from the sky and gets things wet. Wasn't sure if the stories were true.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

abacojeff said:


> Are you talking about rane...
> 
> rayne...
> 
> ...


Funny that we over here have also heard stories about a large ball of fire in the sky which warms the land but never see it so dont believe it exists,


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## abacojeff (Aug 17, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Funny that we over here have also heard stories about a large ball of fire in the sky which warms the land but never see it so dont believe it exists,


We just had a severe dose of that ball of fire in the sky... 97°F (36°C) day before yesterday. But things are starting to drift back to normal now.

Just to tie this back into the thread -- warm days makes for comfortable rides in the evening... using my shiny new troutelight (soon I hope, after I get my hands on those pesky XPEs !)

:madmax:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Finally done the rest of the how too*

Well I have finally done the rest of the tutorial on building a Troutlight

Please check it over for me and say what I have missed

Its Here


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

Excellent Tutorial Troutie. Hopefully, this will ensure I get right the second time around.....


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Southern Adventurer said:


> Excellent Tutorial Troutie. Hopefully, this will ensure I get right the second time around.....


Cheers John , 
did you ever find out what went wrong with the maxflex


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*meet the Trout light family .*

At last I have managed to get 3 of the Troutlights built and in one place so I thought it would be nice to do a group photo of the whole family just for a bit of fun .
before they are shipped out .


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## Hambonio (Jul 16, 2008)

> At last I have managed to get 3 of the Troutlights built and in one place so I thought it would be nice to do a group photo of the whole family just for a bit of fun .
> before they are shipped out .


Beamshot?


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## fre3ud (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Troutie - nice case design.
Have you played with this yet?
http://carclo-optics.co.uk/Shop.70.0.html

No specs on which of the 10mm geometries it matches though.


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## mega_kas (Dec 29, 2008)

I just wanted to express how good this light is.

I took it for it's first night ride on Friday around Swinley Forest in Bracknell.

Fan-tastic ! A great package.I'll try and get some photos sorted of the light itself and some beamshots. What's the best way to take beamshots? ie camera settings.

Night riding is so much fun.


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Cheers John ,
> did you ever find out what went wrong with the maxflex


Negative. I was away then George was gone. I still need to order a new one and return the bad driver to see if they can figure it out. I have some may lights now and not doing much night riding that I am in no hurry. I have a couple of lights on the drawing board too. One is for running at night and attatches to the chest strap of a backpack/camelback. Here is where I got the idea. I wonders if you could rotate the lense section of the XPE 90 degrees it would do the trick. Here's where I got the idea:

http://www.gomotiongear.com/


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## bikeknots (Apr 5, 2009)

*More thanks to Chris (troutie)*

I too just wanted to let you all know what a fantastic light this is.

Chris has done an amazing job with the design/production of this light. I know I will never be able to go back to an "ordinary" bike light again. It had it's first outings last weekend on Beach Road in Melbourne (popular riding area in Oz) in the dark and it was just brilliant in more ways than one.

If you have never ridden with a light like this, do yourself a favor.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Southern Adventurer said:


> Negative. I was away then George was gone. I still need to order a new one and return the bad driver to see if they can figure it out. I have some may lights now and not doing much night riding that I am in no hurry. I have a couple of lights on the drawing board too. One is for running at night and attatches to the chest strap of a backpack/camelback. Here is where I got the idea. I wonders if you could rotate the lense section of the XPE 90 degrees it would do the trick. Here's where I got the idea:
> 
> http://www.gomotiongear.com/


George is going away again on the 9th may for a month so get any orders in quick.

for your running light have a look at the ledil twiddle optic for the XRE I have one but have not played with it yet could be just the job . .

Cheers Bikeknots real happy you like it makes it all worthwhile ..


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## Joshp82 (Apr 1, 2009)

hi all this is only my second post here. i have been reading these forums for a while now and im going to take the plunge and buy a 6XPE kit from cutter. the only thing that has got me stumped is what batteries to buy or use... how many volts does this need to run? and how any Amph? 

Thanks
Josh


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

For the 6 xpe in series they need 18/19 volts so the recomended battery for the maxflex is the 14.4 volt li ion 
and on full it draws 1 amp approx 

so depends on how long you want to burn for but the math is dead easy at that draw.


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## Joshp82 (Apr 1, 2009)

Im a real noob on all this so i don't know the math. at a guess I would like about 3 hrs burn time. thanks for the help Troutie.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Joshp82 said:


> Im a real noob on all this so i don't know the math. at a guess I would like about 3 hrs burn time. thanks for the help Troutie.


Sorry I just assumed

You would get away with a 2400mah pack and carefull use of hi and low power

or a 3600mah pack which would give you approx 3 hours 20 mins on full power


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## Joshp82 (Apr 1, 2009)

Awesome thanks. I just got back from a ride and borrowed a mates Ay-up helmet light.
Those are awesome and if the 6XPE is brighter i cant wait
would one of these be ok?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RCSmart-3950mAh-11-1V-12C-LiPo-Lithium-Polymer-Battery_W0QQitemZ390051304401QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles?hash=item390051304401&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


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## bikeknots (Apr 5, 2009)

Hi Josh,

Having just had Troutie build me one of his 6XPE Lights I can tell you that while the Ay-up system is good it does not compare with this light. The battery you linked to is 11.1V. As Troutie mentioned previously, you need a 14.8V pack. I have a 4400mah pack and am just about to get a 2400mah pack for my shorter rides. You will not be disappointed once you have your light up and working, it is an amazing light!


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## Joshp82 (Apr 1, 2009)

awesome thanks, i'll have a look around again at some more batteries. i will most likely use this as a helmet light. then maybe get another for the bars. after having the Ayups on my helmet i dont think i would handle a bar only light. i did notice that the Ayups only have a 7.2v lipo. ill hunt around for somthing to get me to 14.8v i would prefer lipo for weight. but 18650's might work also


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## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

Troutie:

Polymer Li-ion Box Battery: 14.8V 5Ah (74 Wh) with Trail-Tech Plug & Switch & Fuel Gauge can give me a 5 hours ride?

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4417

Bruno


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

What is the general consensus about using a 3cell li-ion battery, I mean I know a 4cell would run more efficiently but I don't see why a 3cell would be out of the question. Reason I ask is cause i am getting a 3S3P 9cell pack cheap and dont really want to take out a cell and re-wire it as a 4S2P pack.

@Josh if the trout light is wired with the leds in 3S2P then a 7.2V battery would work very well with in fact with the maxflex turned up to 1200ma it would deliver 600ma per led.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

BrunoBB said:


> Troutie:
> 
> Polymer Li-ion Box Battery: 14.8V 5Ah (74 Wh) with Trail-Tech Plug & Switch & Fuel Gauge can give me a 5 hours ride?
> 
> ...


Hi Bruno 
yes you should get just about 5 hours on full power from that battery.
even longer because you would switch to low for when you are climbing up that mountain

Hi Jay have you done that light yet .

the 11 volt is a no no :nono: because George ( Taskled ) says so

14.4V would be the minimum I'd recommend to try and keep input current low and efficiency high. I'd NOT recommend 11.1V, that will mean >2A at the input AND because of the large delta between input voltage and output voltage, efficiency will be <<90%. That would be >2W being dissipated in the switcher IC - too much... Forget 7.2V!

No problems for bFlex - it really doesn't care whether you have 3 LEDs at 1A or 2 parallel strings of 3 LEDs at 1A - it is the same load...

Truth be told, I "DON'T" like boost converters and only designed/built maxFlex due to customer pressure. Buck converters like bFlex are so much easier to design with and have much better thermal characteristics ->

Boost converters and batteries are a lose/lose combo. While the battery is fresh, the efficiency is best (since input voltage is higher). As the battery drains, the input voltage drops, efficiency gets worst, heat losses get higher, input current increases. Everything is in the bad direction.

Buck converters and batteries are nice. As the battery voltage drops, the input current increases, but never more than the output current, BUT as the input voltage lowers, the efficiency of the driver increases (higher efficiency with small input/out voltage delta). As the input voltage reaches the output voltage (if that is the LED/battery combo), then input current will then drop as it goes out of regulation - never has input current gone greater than output current. So, you can see a buck with batteries offers very nice operating characteristics.

So, in summary, IF you can configure your LED/Battery needs to be able to use a buck converter, you will miles ahead of the boost crowd...

I've had lots of folk destroy maxflex drivers because of overheating due to poor choice of LED load, LED current and input battery voltage and poor heatsinking. I've NEVER had a bFlex fail due to overheating (and no one heatsinks that driver)...

cheers,
george.


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## Joshp82 (Apr 1, 2009)

ok thanks Troutie, seen as im a real newby if I had 4 - 18650 in series would this suffice? Im only asking these stupid questions cause I don't know what to do just yet.
I just won this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/RCSmart-3950mAh-14-8V-12C-LiPo-Lithium-Polymer-Battery_W0QQitemZ300315223653QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModellismo_Dinamico?hash=item45ec2ea665&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A30 will it be ok?

Thanks


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## Joshp82 (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi All im about to order my light from cutter. i have a couple of questions tho.
1 - can the light be dimmed?
2 - is it possible to only illuminate half the LED's at once?
3 - what Switch should I get?
4 - Should I get a female plug and mount it in the back for power or is an inline connector ok?
5 - how do I add a small red led in the back? that illuminates when turned on?
6 - does the light cpome with loops for a helmet strap as well as a spot to out a hanlde bar mount?

Thanks Josh


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## abacojeff (Aug 17, 2008)

Joshp82 said:


> Hi All im about to order my light from cutter. i have a couple of questions tho.
> 1 - can the light be dimmed?
> 2 - is it possible to only illuminate half the LED's at once?
> 3 - what Switch should I get?
> ...


Hi Josh,

I'll throw in some quick and dirty answers and leave it to the rest of the group to fill-in the details!

1. Depends on the driver - but most have built in programmability or ability to wire a potentiometer.

2. It's possible but can be a little more complex for a first build. You'd need either 2 drivers - 1 each for 2 separate 'strings' of leds... or 2 parallel strings to a single driver with an on/off switch to one of the strings. You'd have to limit the current so that the max current allowed for a single string won't be exceeded if you switched the other string off. That means you'd only get 50% current to each when both strings are on. If you switch 'on the fly' you'd take a chance on a surge taking the whole thing out. Bottom line, not a good idea unless the setup is well thought out in advance. Besides, dimming all leds is more efficient than turning half off.

3. Must be a "momentary" switch (not "latching"). The group is fond of APEM or ITW switches. Water resistant is a good idea (IP67 rating). You can even get them with an LED built into the switch, which answers questions #5. You'd need to wire in a resistor based on your battery voltage to drive the "indicator" led. Somebody will come along with sources and model numbers shortly.

4. Some people like to mount the power jacks directly into the head unit for that 'clean' installation... others prefer to hang a short lead of power cord with their favorite connector off the back (i.e. dongle). Whichever floats your boat and depending on what connectors you plan to use on the battery of course.

5. You can drill a small hole for a 3 mm or 5 mm 'indicator' led and silicone into place, or use a switch with a built in led as mentioned in #3 above. Of course, I'm assuming that you are looking for an 'indicator' led that shows when power is connected (some drivers allow an option of using an indicator led to show low battery warning, etc.). I'm assuming that you're not talking about rear 'running lights'... but same idea. You'd probably want to go 2x 5 mm if doing running lights. Either way you'll need a little help to calculate the resistor value for the led you'd use based on your battery voltage.

6. I'm going to admit to being a lazy bastard and I didn't catch up all the way on the thread. And I'm going to bed now so I'm not going to answer Question #6. So there!


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## Joshp82 (Apr 1, 2009)

hahaha thanks abacojeff for your answers on #6, the other info is good
thanks again


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Joshp82 said:


> Hi All im about to order my light from cutter. i have a couple of questions tho.
> 1 - can the light be dimmed?
> 2 - is it possible to only illuminate half the LED's at once?
> 3 - what Switch should I get?
> ...


Hi Josh

I think you might be a little confused

The kit from Cutters is only the 6 XPE leds - 6 carclo optics - and a Maxflex
The Housing You can get from me at the moment , But this may alter in the future and Cutter may have some too .

1/ yes the light can be dimmed right down , as with the maxflex you can have a HI/ LOW  mode or a multimode .

2/ with the dimming available there is no need to switch half the leds off and also you would need to use 2 drivers , so adding complexity

3 / If you get a housing off me I can also supply the switch and drill the housing to suit .

4/ a female plug is fine but difficult to get waterproof ones I prefer a lead and inline connector.

5/ is it a red led for a tail light , or a status led you are meaning here .

6/ yes it has loops for a strap to mount to the helmet or can be drilled and tapped for a bar mount

If you have nt looked there is a build up tutorial on my site  here

If you need any help just ask on here on or mail / PM me and I will be happy to help


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## Joshp82 (Apr 1, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hi Josh
> 
> I think you might be a little confused
> 
> ...


Hhhhrrmmm dont i feel like an Idiot........
#1 awesome thats what i was after
#2 cool that sorts that out
#3 ok that makes it easy
#4 ok an inline plug it will be
#5 i was hoping to have red lights on the back for visibility for cars on the road.
#6 that's great as I may use the light either way


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Son of Trout light*

Due to boredom setting in with the lack of darkness and the long rainy summer days 
Though we are supposed to be getting a good summer this year .
I have been having a think about the new super XPG and if it lives up to the hype then it will only need 4 to surpass the lumen count of the 6 XPE light .

So Deesta And myself are collaberating to bring out some housings that will do them justice . 
so inbetween a few emails passing to discuss fine detail I have been chiseling away at the last piece of free aluminium I have left and it was just large enough to do a quad , which will get 4 XPGs in when they are available for testing .

Hopefully Steve is going to do me some more of the 6 troutlights soon and incorperate this design idea to make the kit easier to build and better to waterproof

This is just my early attempt and when steve has tweeked his ideas also it may change a bit , it will certainly alter quality wise .



















We have gone for the square boards as they do make it real easy to do the solder bridges and with the new clamshell design it makes for no keyhole soldering which I know has been an issue for a couple of guys,



















We are also having fins top and bottom as we are not sure how hot they will run when at 1amp 
The housing will also be a little deeper front to back so a Nflex/ Bflex will also fit to keep the driver options open










That is all for now but feel free to throw in any opinions helpfull or otherwise :thumbsup:

.
.
.


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## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Another winner from Trout-Deesta Engineering PLC (again!) :thumbsup: 

Love the groove for the perspex lens cover - very clever 

I'm sure you can you sell me one of these as well


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

*That didn't take long....*

Hey Chris,

That looks really neat. The clamshell design was a stroke of genius:thumbsup: Will make assembly a piece of p*ss. How long before you reckon the XPG's will be available?

Harpoon:
That's all Chris' work but I'm looking forward to having a play and coming up with a production version......

Could be a very interesting summer, gearing up for the winter nights.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Nice bit of engineering and problem solving there. :thumbsup:

I really like the idea of complete access to all sections of the light. Should make assembly and upgrades much easier. 
Also with the lense cover in a channel that little bugger can be sealed really tight from the elements.
Nice work, as usual...........


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Guys , it is now upto Steve to make it even betterer possibly with a groove or flange of some sort to take some silicon gasket then it could be a dive light .


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

It should be fairly straight forward putting a groove in for some kind of o-ring seal. That would make it properly watertight...as a duck's arse, is the commonly used phrase I believe


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Great development here!! :thumbsup: 

Will you also adept the 6XPE light to work with the XPG's??  

This would give a real good light output.........hmmm.....the MCE/P7 stuff is getting less important when the XPG's arrive!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Whitedog1 said:


> Great development here!! :thumbsup:
> 
> Will you also adept the 6XPE light to work with the XPG's??
> 
> This would give a real good light output.........hmmm.....the MCE/P7 stuff is getting less important when the XPG's arrive!


Cheers Whitedog

I am hoping the 6er will migrate to the XPG s easily and Deesta is looking at altering it to be like the pic of the quad below .

I was going to put it in a new thread for the XPG but as the leds are not available yet thought it inappropiate

The wow factor is the quad will have a theoretical 1380 lumens  , that is more than the 6er has now 
and the 6 er with XPGs will be 2070 lumens :yikes:

Now a question for the learned out there .

we are told the XP-G will be 345 lumens @ 1000 ma 
now if my calculations are right that is 75 lumens brighter than an XPE at 1000ma ( edited thanks Mark )

does this mean we are getting more lumens for the same power in 
what I am meaning is the 6 xpe light @ 700 ma gives 1100 lumens ish and a runtime of 
2hrs 20 mins from my 2200 ma pack .

and the 4 XPG light @ 1000ma should give 1380 lumens for a similar runtime


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Cheers Whitedog
> 
> I am hoping the 6er will migrate to the XPG s easily and Deesta is looking at altering it to be like the pic of the quad below .
> 
> ...


Hi Chris
XPG is actually around 75 lumens more at 1amp, (if you could drive XPE at 1 Amp), ie XPG will be XPE in R4 bin. 
Key points are that the XPG retains efficiency at higher current levels(Anti droop) brighter than XPE, relative by 7%
Lower Thermal Resistance(Better thermal to light ratio)
Higher efficiency for relative bins than XPE, helped by larger die

This led is made for portable light..
'deep down in places you dont talk about you need that led on your bike, you want that led on your bike'
Sorry too many replays of A few Good Men
Cheers
Mark


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks Mark I corrected it below 
Maths was never my strong point .

Do you know if they will work with the existing Xpe optics


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Thanks Mark I corrected it below
> Maths was never my strong point .
> 
> Do you know if they will work with the existing Xpe optics


All evidence to date is that it should work well with existing optics for XPE, the test will be when we get our hands on some


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

WeLight said:


> All evidence to date is that it should work well with existing optics for XPE, the test will be when we get our hands on some


When???​


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

I saw the XP-G last week at a lighting seminar and it looked to be the same size/footprint of the XP-E, just a heck of a lot brighter! I hear that full production and shipments start in July. Cutter should be able to answer when they expect to receive them.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Cheers Whitedog
> 
> I am hoping the 6er will migrate to the XPG s easily and Deesta is looking at altering it to be like the pic of the quad below .
> 
> ...


 
just to think big: What about an 8xXPG light? 4 side by side and in two rows :eekster:

Would make sense for a bar light..... approx. 2500Lumen :drumroll:

But the low profile shape would be lost - so not recommended for a helmet ligt - anyway your other lights are :thumbsup:


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

wow... didn't realise that the XPG's would throw that much light. you guys aren't thinking big enough though. now I think I HAVE to make my 14x CHIPPO driven monster. 4800 lumens with a full tuneable beam, body about the size of a mag head 

or possibly a 5S3P hipflex driven light, which should get you above 5000 lumens in a smaller package... 

I think that 2-3 of those would make the 12 hrs of angelfire quite manageable though :thumbsup:


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

If Cree ship in July I should have it an hour later, dont worry your'll hear them coming...


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Bryguy17 said:


> wow... didn't realise that the XPG's would throw that much light. you guys aren't thinking big enough though. now I think I HAVE to make my 14x CHIPPO driven monster. 4800 lumens with a full tuneable beam, body about the size of a mag head
> 
> or possibly a 5S3P hipflex driven light, which should get you above 5000 lumens in a smaller package...
> 
> I think that 2-3 of those would make the 12 hrs of angelfire quite manageable though :thumbsup:


Bryguy you have some sweet designs but when are you gonna make some chips? C'mon get 'er rolling!!! I want to see the finished product!!!

WeLight that is good news on the XP-G. Looking forward to this fall night riding season, there should be some good stuff getting DIY'd this year.


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

StevelKnivel said:


> Bryguy you have some sweet designs but when are you gonna make some chips? C'mon get 'er rolling!!! I want to see the finished product!!!
> 
> WeLight that is good news on the XP-G. Looking forward to this fall night riding season, there should be some good stuff getting DIY'd this year.


thanks, but it's just a matter of getting the machines to use. I have the knowledge, the ambition, but no mill or lathe :madman:

I'm thinking of plinking down some money on a mini lathe though, but it's hard in this economy on top of trying to buy a DH bike...

I do have a friend that might be helping me out with the machine problem though, so we'll see what happens.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

StevelKnivel said:


> Bryguy you have some sweet designs but when are you gonna make some chips?


Where can i find these designs or just where are some pictures of it??


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

Whitedog1 said:


> Where can i find these designs or just where are some pictures of it??


2x cree R2 20mm carclo optics:
https://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p15/ibryguy17i/light drawings/fullalulightfront.jpg
https://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p15/ibryguy17i/light drawings/fullalulightback.jpg
https://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p15/ibryguy17i/light drawings/lightheadsee-through.jpg
that one will fit the triple XPE boards though, so that's lotsa light...

the early stages of the 14x XPE light:
https://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p15/ibryguy17i/light drawings/lightback.jpg
https://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p15/ibryguy17i/light drawings/lightfront.jpg
that's around the size of a mag head (uses a mag bezel actually)


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

ahhh great! Thanks:thumbsup:


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## fish.man (May 26, 2009)

*optics*

anyone used these optics before for the xpe
PL1153xx Linear Strip for XPE/XPC

its an inline strip of three optics. might be useful for 3 or 6xxpe light.

they come in 6 , 25 and 40 degrees


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Trout, what is the stack height of an XPE plus 10mm optic? I have been digging through old threads but can't seem to find it anywhere.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Trout, what is the stack height of an XPE plus 10mm optic? I have been digging through old threads but can't seem to find it anywhere.


7 mm if the square mcpcb

8 mm with the round


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I finally finished my troutlight a few weeks back and have had some time to ride with it. I will be posting up some photos when ever I finally get my camera back. I am running 4 narrow optics and 2 medium, the combination is perfect. So much light. It runs at 600 lumens longer than I do with a 8 18650 pack. I can only really think of 2 features to improve it. One is probably doable the other is a stretch I am sure. I want a moon light mode an output of 60lumens or even less. Something for rummaging around in the back of a car or fixing a flat. I have my max flex set for 700ma and even on the lowest brightness level its so much light that when changing a flat i am almost blinded by reflected light. There is so much extra space in the electronics compartment with my low profile switch and rubber boot that I think I could even cram in a 20mm board or 2. on either side of the maxlex after taking some aluminum from between the threaded screw holes for the cover plate.

I keep thinking about adding another small driver and switch to archive this or maybe even a super small lipo cell and a couple smd LEDs. There is a really small space between the XPEs and little carclo optics but running wires to those spaces could be too tough. 

My next idea for improvement will be a real challenge and may never actually get done. A wireless handle bar mounted momentary switch for on/off and changing modes. This is the only thing nite rider has done that DIY has not yet bested.


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

bikerjay said:


> My next idea for improvement will be a real challenge...........A wireless handle bar mounted momentary switch for on/off and changing modes.


A dozen years ago, when my son and I were into model rocketry, I built a wireless rocket ignition system using parts from a wireless car starter. Now that was a big bulky arrangement with relays and and large circuit boards, about the size of a brick. But today this sort of technology must be available in miniature solid state electronics. There must be some cheap product or toy out there that uses a wireless momentary switch. How about those tiny radio-controlled cars that were such a fad a couple years ago?

Or maybe one of these.....how are you at riding no-hands? 

JZ


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## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Just a quick post to say I got to give my Troutlite XPE a proper work out at Sleepless in the Saddle at the weekend. Faultless performance from it - it didn't even mind me smacking it on passing branches in the tight 'n' twisty woodland sections.

Many thanks Mr Trout


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Harpoon said:


> Just a quick post to say I got to give my Troutlite XPE a proper work out at Sleepless in the Saddle at the weekend. Faultless performance from it - it didn't even mind me smacking it on passing branches in the tight 'n' twisty woodland sections.
> 
> Many thanks Mr Trout


Hey, my trout light was out racing aswell at the wsmtb 12 hour.

Here it is in action:









Note my beloved "duster" on the bars which had packed it in due to a broken wire  :madman: :madmax:

Thank god the troutlight got me through that lap!


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

*Anyone used a BFlex?*

I've had a problem with the Maxflex driver in one of these lights which has made me think of using a BFlex instead. Anyone tried this???

Here's a copy of an email I've just sent to Trout which explains it all:

Me and mates have 3 of the 6xpe helmet lights.

one of my mate's had been working fine, then first ride out on a new Smudge 14.8v lithium battery (I think just coincidence: I've had his batteries before and really happy with them) it went really dim (so dim that you can only just see that its lit in daylight), but the light still turns on & off as usual.

I'm in touch with george at TaskLED about it and he reckons that:

"from your description of the LEDs being extremely dim I would think the switcher IC has died. Being a boost converter, with the switcher IC dead, the driver will just behave as direct drive due to the inherent DC path through th e inductor/schottky. It still 'flashes' etc, because the uController is still controlling the power FET that turns power on/off to the switcher core.

Failure of the switcher IC is more than likely due to overheating of the IC. Either the heatsink path has failed or it wasn't good enough and the IC suffered long term damage during use."

He has offered a deal on a new Maxflex. But I'm pretty confident I glued (arctic alumina) the heat sink of the board correctly (and its still attached), and this has made me think about a Bflex and a 6 cell (series) lithium battery instead of the Maxflex. 6 cell battery should be 22.2V input voltage and I think the 6 xpes will be 20.4V output voltage. I'm aware of all the heat and efficiency advantages of the BFlex, and the 6 cell battery should give me a longer runtime.

Any thoughts on this combo? I know finding a charger will be more difficult.

thanks


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## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

A 6 cell li-ion battery will be 25.2V fully charged. That is ragged edge for a bflex. I would go for it, but I also would be ready for failure. You may have gotten glue on some of the important bits of the Maxflex. Some of the glues are electricly conductive. One of my lights has 4 series XPE's using a bflex. I use 5 cells in the battery, no diming, control PCB in battery just shuts off. So I have the bflex flash the LED's when battery is close to flat.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Dave.
that is the first reported failure of a maxflex in a troutlight and you are not a novice builder so do know what you are doing .

have you opened it up yet to see if the maxflex is still attached to the heat sink.
as AAA is not that strong an adhesive , I also use a blob of silicon at the end away from the heatsink to support the other end and help stop any vibration .

another question did you set the thermal setting as it would have been easy to forget .

on to the bflex and 6 cell pack Hendo is usint a Nflex in that very config without issues I think.

It may be just a failure on the maxflex as parts do just die sometimes.

have you tried it with a different battery also just to rule out the new battery


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## davew255 (Oct 25, 2005)

Thanks guys,

looking at the TaskLED website the nflex may be best as its rated up to an input voltage of 30V: otherwise the Nflex and Bflex are almost identical? I see the Nflex is square and the Bflex round.

Trout: had it apart and no obvious problems, I'd expected to find the board detached from he casing but still secure. I was careful to just use a thin smear of AA but George said there could be voids in the glue. 

Definitely not the battery as that works fine on my Troutlight. The one that's blown was my mate's light but he's pretty sure he was using 70degrees thermal protection.

Glad to know Hendo is using a Nflex and 6 cell pack. Hendo: any thoughts/experience?


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Hey davew255  ... no issues and no problemo running nFlex / 6series li-ion in my troutelight @1000ma!!
fully charged the battery 6 pack is just over 25v, 
so that rules out the bFlex (max 25v in)
the nFlex easily fits in the housing, and i just wrapped it loosely with some insulating tape,
one thing that used to be an issue is getting a charger for a 6 cell pack
but with the now available18650 holders a 6 pack is easy to assemble and charge
High quality DIY holders for 18650 Li-Ion cells
a 6 pack will get you extra runtime too


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