# no love for the NuVinci?



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

not much said about this hub. 907 is specing it on one of their builds.
Just making me think again on a hub build for my spare Pugs frame.


----------



## simenf (Nov 10, 2008)

Look in the Tusken thread. 


simenf - brainwashed by the big wheel mafia.


----------



## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

I miss mine. Sold a Nuvinci'd Pugs to a guy. He loves it. I miss it 

Heavy, and needed more range, but damn fun and uncomplicated.


----------



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Is it that there is not enough of them around? Not enough time on them?

Too many posts on alfine 11 vs. Rolloff. 

I am wondering about durability, ease of use, and cost/benefits.

Probably should just build the spare Pug frame as a SS.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I test rode a Nuvinci equipped bike and then got an offer to try one at wholesale. I thought about it, but came to the conclusion I really wasn't stoked enough about it to spend the $$ building up a wheel with it. I ended up with an Alfine 11.

You can read this real world MTB test of the Nuvinci.

http://forums.mtbr.com/internal-gear-hubs/nuvinci-n360-amateur-review-663451.html

I spoke to the reviewer offline when he first got it and he was stoked, but eventually he took it out of service. So he came into the process thinking positively and changed his mind. It's worth reading all the way through that thread.

The folks at Nuvinci continue to innovate so I hold out hope that eventually they make something I want to ride.


----------



## simenf (Nov 10, 2008)

It seems to be the best payable internal option for real life mountain biking based on the reviews for robustness and performance, almost on par with Rohloff but somewhat lacking in range. 


simenf - brainwashed by the big wheel mafia.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

simenf said:


> It seems to be the best payable internal option for real life mountain biking based on the reviews for robustness and performance, almost on par with Rohloff but somewhat lacking in range.
> 
> simenf - brainwashed by the big wheel mafia.


The Nuvinci seems very robust and compared to a Rohloff affordable, but the power loss in low gear when climbing doesn't seem to be on par with a Rohloff.

The Alfine 8 isn't as robust as the Nuvinci or Rohloff [despite my A8 going strong after 4yrs in my Pugsley], but I'd say it's comparable to the Rohloff for performance in a MTB at fraction of the cost. You just don't get the same gear range or service life.

The right choice of IGH just depends on where you fall on the weight, cost, efficiency, gear range and reliability/service life questions.


----------



## Pat115 (Apr 7, 2009)

I have a Pugsley with a Nuvinci N360 and so far it's perfect for my riding. I have a 32t up front and a 18t cog and the lowest gear is plenty low for me (as low as I ever went on my 3x9 pugsley) and I never used the highest ratio so far. We'll see during the summer when I put more air in my Nates but I'm pretty sure it will be plenty to get me to the trails at a good pace.

Lots of love for the Nuvinci from me


----------



## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

I ride to and from work with a guy on a Nuvinci N360. They are incredibly heavy, even heavier than my Rohloff build, and apart from the rim itself I didn't make any effort whatsoever to make it a light weight wheel (the rim I chose was a middleweight rim, selected for strength and durability rather than weight). On one hand, he loves the infinitely variable ratios. I agree; I think it's really nice. A complete Nuvinci N360 wheel built up by a LBS around here weighed in at 10.5 lbs; my Rohloff with heavy tires and tubes mounted weighed in at 8 lbs.

The design of it is inherently difficult to break. I'm not going to say impossible because anything is possible, and my understanding of how it works means enough "shear force" on the oil will cause problems - chances are we're talking the kind of forces that a pro puts out though. Everything is sealed in, which is nice, but while I haven't known anyone to beat theirs up over an extended period of time, I get the feeling that the servicing procedure isn't something you could easily do at home, as you could with a Rohloff or Alfine. Again, that's just hearsay, and really you shouldn't have to do it ever. I too noticed the slippage in the low end of the range, but it was definitely on the "barely noticeable" side of things. Less noticeable then, say, the sheer rear-weight bias of the bike. That and I was test riding one of the REI bikes at the time, so they generally ask you to come back with it.

The shifter and range of the gearing didn't impress me. It did impress me with how smoothly it worked, and that it shifted at all under power. It had the same weight bias and general feel & handling of an eBike with a rear wheel motor.

Overall, not bad. For puttering around town it's a pretty brainless setup. Can't say I'd ever want to do long distances or hillclimbs on it like I do with my Rohloff - we have some sustained hills around here that would make it horrible to have one of these (20+% hills). These were my experiences from a 2 mi test ride over bumpy, hilly terrain.


----------



## Ragz22 (Mar 10, 2013)

Hey, what tips can you give for building up a yeti sb66 with a rohloff hub? I new to all of this so any help would be great


----------



## MetaOrbit (Jun 28, 2009)

I had a NuVinci N360 for about a week. Not at all a bad hub, and frankly an engineering marvel, but ultimately didn't have enough gear range, IMO. The Alfine-8 I'd been using just seemed to suit my application better.


----------



## KanzaKrūzer (Mar 3, 2011)

I've had a NuVinci 360 for 18 months. It is a fun ride!


----------



## Gritter (Dec 21, 2010)

I had the N-171 (the first one) and to answer your question - no, I did not love it. Hardly any of my pedaling watts got transfered to the ground, that hub soaked up all my effort and it was just too slow. It felt like riding in loose sand with under-inflated slicks. 

My Nexus 7 was exponentially more efficient, but I'm currently loving my Alfine Æleven the most.


----------



## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

MetaOrbit said:


> I had a NuVinci N360 for about a week. Not at all a bad hub, and frankly an engineering marvel, but ultimately didn't have enough gear range, IMO. The Alfine-8 I'd been using just seemed to suit my application better.


Huh? The Alfine-8 has a gear range of 307%, and the N360 has a gear range of 360%.


----------



## Kelly Patterson (Sep 6, 2013)

evandy said:


> Huh? The Alfine-8 has a gear range of 307%, and the N360 has a gear range of 360%.


This forum is like most others out there...not accurate. I m in the middle of a 12500 mile tour about 7200 thru yesterday and this hub is a beast. So sad to see misinformation like this. This hub is better than the rolhoffs I ve used and toured with. This topic reminds of the arguments for not touring on 29ers or the lame reasonings to not tour hydraulic brakes. These are amatuers giving this same amatuer advice. Don t believe everything you read.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Kelly Patterson said:


> ...this hub is a beast.


Good thing we got that settled and the accuracy back up to 10 out of 10.


----------



## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

vikb said:


> Good thing we got that settled and the accuracy back up to 10 out of 10.


What I'd be really interested in is how well it does in cold and cold/wet climates. I have a new Pugs coming in the next month or so, and have been considering adding an IGH to it somewhere down the road. I've considered Rohloff (too $$), the Alfine-8 (possibly not enough gear range), the NuVinci (not enough reviews), and the Alfine-11 (really variable reviews).

It will be primarily a winter snow commuter, so there is a definite reliability benefit to an IGH for my purpose.


----------



## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

evandy, I was the first person to put a NuVinci N360 on a Pug, I had one two years ago that I painted all John Deere but screwed it up and everyone thought I was rooting for the Packers. It does cold and wet just fine. But the observations vikb are otherwise quite true. The Alfine effectiveness and efficiency is hard to beat for the money. Further, quite a number of people have proven that an Alfine 8 can handle going under the recommended input ratio. I run mine 32:23 without incident, I've heard of lower.

I also don't quite feel the tangible difference in range between a NuVinci and an Alfine. They're both good hubs. I *love* the shift action of the NuVinci. Just all considerations included, I prefer the Alfine.


----------



## rlcanon (Apr 27, 2013)

*I like mine so far*

And I'm pushing 185 cranks w/ that granny gear. Well, there goes the warranty! Way under-geared according to the manufacturer, but it seems to be geared about right for me pushing 29+ wheels on my usual rides. I typically ride somewhere in the middle of the gear range and hit the low limit about twice as often as the high limit. I figure I'll pay to repair it if I manage to blow it up and still feel good about the hub. (I've already killed an Alfine11 on the Krampus, and my Rohloff is up right after the NV360 in the rotation.)









You can see how the LBS built the wheel with the spokes crossing over from one flange to the opposite row of holes on the Rabbit Hole rim.









Here's the whole bike...









I ran the stock shifter for a few days but it's just so -cheap- feeling! And the gear ratio indicator on the stock shifter is much too vague. I installed my Giles Berthoud billet Rohloff shifter and like it, and it's indicator, much better than the stocker. I suppose there is some false precision going on with the Berthoud Rohloff indicator, but the numbered dial appears to allow more repeatable settings and better being able to compare the gear pushed on one ride with another.

Oh, the stock shifter felt "backwards" at first, so when I connected the Berthoud Rohloff shifter, I reversed the cables. And THAT feels backwards about half the time! Probably more of an indication that I'm easily confused than that there is a "right" way for a twist shift to turn. Ha ha!

I really like the NV360! I'm a little surprised by how entrenched "banging through the gears", or "gears" period, is in my psyche, but being able to dial in minor ratio changes is great. Oddly, I appear to ride a little faster on the NV360. With a geared bike I tend to shift up until my cadence drops more than I want, then come down a gear. With the NV360 I shift up until my cadence drops more than I want, then I dial it back almost imperceptibly. It feels like I'm always pushing slightly to find the perfect gear ratio/riding speed, unlike a bike with distinct gears.

IGH makers need to come up with a product that is way lighter than the NV360 and conservatively rated to handle the smallest ring on a typical MTN triple in order to woo enthusiasts away from derailleurs.


----------



## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

rlcanon said:


> I ran the stock shifter for a few days but it's just so -cheap- feeling! And the gear ratio indicator on the stock shifter is much too vague. I installed my Giles Berthoud billet Rohloff shifter and like it, and it's indicator, much better than the stocker. I suppose there is some false precision going on with the Berthoud Rohloff indicator, but the numbered dial appears to allow more repeatable settings and better being able to compare the gear pushed on one ride with another.
> 
> Oh, the stock shifter felt "backwards" at first, so when I connected the Berthoud Rohloff shifter, I reversed the cables. And THAT feels backwards about half the time! Probably more of an indication that I'm easily confused than that there is a "right" way for a twist shift to turn. Ha ha!


For a while I was running one bike with a Nuvinci (previous model) and one with a 3 speed twist shifter (Sturmey Archer). I swear they were the reverse of each other, although I broke that SA shifter and can't verify, but I felt like I also ended up shifting the wrong direction half the time. Still do it some times, but now that only one bike has a twist shifter, I'm doing it less often. Fortunately, with the Nuvinci, shifting is easy enough that correcting a mis-shift is easy and fast.

I'm curious about using alternate shifters. I figured I was stuck with the plastic bubble shifter that came with the hub. Do you feel you get the full range of the hub out of the Rohloff shifter? I never worry about gear indicators, miss the numbers, or care much about the Nuvinci "inchworm" indicator, but I still might like to experiment with a different look and/or feel. One thing I like is neither knowing nor caring what gear I'm in, but adjusting it whatever feels best whenever I want.

I've been running my Nuvinci on my commuter/tourer for 4+ years. I love the shifting. I sometimes wish I could gear it a little lower and stay in manufacturer's specs. I don't want to go out spec because I have not found the hub to be as bomb-proof as everyone else seems to find it. Early on I had a fluid leak and had to send the hub in for service. A year later, a screw popped out of the hub, and I had to get a replacement part. About a year and a half after that, last fall, the hub started free-wheeling at the end of the gear range. Must not have been an unheard of problem, because when I contacted the company, they just sent a replacement hub out. I've been on that one almost a year, and this weekend I noticed a screw on that hub was just about to drop out. I tightened that one and another one that was loose, but now I'm worried that I might be leaking a little fluid again. If so, I'll need to send it again before the warranty is up at the end of the winter. It being solid and hard to kill was one of the selling features that convinced me to try it, but now I'm in love with the shifting, even though "bomb-proof" is not a word I could apply to my hubs. But, to be fair, it has never failed me in a trip-ending way. It just has required more maintenance than I'd like on a hub that I can't service myself. I feel like it's priced well compared to other IGH options given its range and unique shifting properties, but it's not so cheap that I could keep a spare on hand, so when it goes in for service, the bike is out of commission. And when the hub had to be replaced, that meant a wheel rebuild on my dime/time. However, apart from the inconvenience of needing to deal with warranty issues, the company has always been very helpful, responsive, and prompt.

It's heavy, but that hasn't been a huge issue for me because I'm heavy and my bike is heavy, and I'm prone to carry too much junk. The hub weight is kind of lost in all of that. Still, I'd like to upgrade to the N360, which is lighter with a wider range. It's supposedly tougher, too, but the warranty is shorter, so that gives me pause. But the alternative is going back to discrete gears, and I don't think I'm ready for that.


----------



## dogus (Dec 25, 2010)

*My n360 experiences so far...*

I laced up a blunt 35 rim with nuvinci n360 for my 29er with the idea that I could move the wheel over to a krampus in the future if I liked the hub.

The initial setup was a little tricky for me. First, I broke the shifter. Somehow the cables got twisted inside the grip shifter mechanism and some plastic bits broke inside. Nuvinci warrantied and sent me a new shifter no problem.

After I received the new shifter and got it properly setup, on my second ride the supplied 18 tooth cog slid off the splines of the freehub and got jammed between the hub and the end of the splines. (The splines on this particular freehub had a gap between the end of the splines and the "hub-side" of the freehub body) At first I thought I blew out the hub because I couldn't engage the hub to pedal. I emailed my trusty nuvinci warranty guy and he sent me some new small parts and a new freehub body. The warrantied freehub body I received did not have the same gap on the hub side of the freehub body. This freehub had a flange to prevent the cog from sliding to the inside. Nuvnici obviously corrected this problem at some point, however I'm not sure when the models could have changed...

So finally I switched to the new freehub body with a Niner 20T cog installed which has a thicker width than the supplied cog and things have been working well since.

Overall, I am very impressed with the hub itself. It is heavy, no doubt, but feels very smooth and soft on the knees. There is some drag, but my perception is that I am faster because I don't have to actually "shift" gears. Shifting now feels more like like turning the volume up or down as needed.

On the other hand, I am less impressed with the cheap small parts that are included with the hub. The shifter feels cheap. The hub has plastic gear bits that change the gear ratio. The cable latch and pinch bolt could be very easily lost if they slip off. I have an Alfine 8 on my pugsley which I feel has more durable small parts.

I'm running 32x20 which works pretty well for my local singletrack rides, however I feel as though I could use a little bit more low gearing when riding with bikepacking/touring loads.

The more I ride this hub, the more confident I feel mashing on it.:thumbsup:


----------



## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

dogus said:


> I'm running 32x20 which works pretty well for my local singletrack rides, however I feel as though I could use a little bit more low gearing when riding with bikepacking/touring loads.


I think you're already out of the recommended range. Nuvinci recommends 1.8:1 minimum, and you're at 1.6. According to them, you should be running a 36 up front with that sprocket. But I've heard plenty of people under gear them without issue. I want to upgrade my older version so I can drop down to 1.8 from 2, but I do only miss that low end on steep hills or when the bike is loaded. I can imagine I'd miss it more when riding off road.


----------



## dogus (Dec 25, 2010)

Rob_E said:


> I think you're already out of the recommended range. Nuvinci recommends 1.8:1 minimum, and you're at 1.6. According to them, you should be running a 36 up front with that sprocket.


Yep, you are correct. I'm out of range. I felt that 1.8 was a bit high for my intended use. Usually there is a bit of a safety factor with these types of engineered things. In this case I'm about 13% over the limit.....not a huge amount. If I break the hub, I suppose I'll have more incentive to get the Rohloff.


----------



## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

I would have went with an N360 for my Pugs if it weren't for the excessive weight and inefficiency. Fatbikes are plenty heavy and inefficient as it is. I went with an Alfine 8 instead, and I'm happy so far.

If Nuvinci could bring down the weight and ramp up the efficiency for a future model, I'm in.


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

dogus said:


> On the other hand, I am less impressed with the cheap small parts that are included with the hub. The shifter feels cheap. The hub has plastic gear bits that change the gear ratio. The cable latch and pinch bolt could be very easily lost if they slip off. I have an Alfine 8 on my pugsley which I feel has more durable small parts.
> 
> I'm running 32x20 which works pretty well for my local singletrack rides, however I feel as though I could use a little bit more low gearing when riding with bikepacking/touring loads.
> 
> I second what dogus has said above. I'm running this hub on an Origin8 Crawler, 32x20, putting me at a 1.6 ratio. Gearing could be a little lower , but it works, and I don't have any hesitation about mashing on it. I bought the bike as a demo, and it was set up totally wrong, meaning I wasn't getting anywhere close to the full range of gears. After switching out both shifter cables and setting it up to spec, I immediately lost the pinch bolt on the first trial run - after ten minutes of walking around in the plowed lot where I was testing it out, I actually found it...reinstalled with 2X torque specified, and am on my way. The hub feels bomber, the shifter, not so much.


----------

