# Removing damaged tubes from Lugged Frame



## mhickey79 (Feb 22, 2007)

Hello, 
I'm practicing my "skills" by replacing the TT, DT, and HT of an older lugged road bike. I've cut the TT and DT about 5cm past the lugs on the BB shell and ST cluster. 
I'm heating the BB and cut tube up to red-hot, but I can't get the tube to budge. Not all the silver will stay hot enough all the way around the tube to enable me to pull it out, I think. 
Any advice is appreciated. Yes, I'm new at this.
Thanks!


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

The frame may have been pinned when built.........this is a process where small holes are drilled and a pin (nail) is inserted to hold the frame together before silver brazing. Good luck.


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## FruitaGuy (Jun 11, 2009)

I would also suggest that the frame may be pinned. What type of frame is/was it? You should really have no trouble heating the area to pull the tube...although I will say that it does take some practice. Probably the only part of framebuilding I tried not to do was replacement of tubes, it's tedious and is not generally good for the lugs. Also, what type of torch set-up are you using?


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

it's a lot easier if you leave the tubes a little longer.


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## mhickey79 (Feb 22, 2007)

Sorry for the slow response. The frame is a Trek, circa mid-80s, I think. Constructed of Reynolds 501. I'm using an oxy-acetylene torch. 
It's probably hard to tell if the lug has been pinned or not, huh?
What about leaving the tubes longer would make them easier to remove?
I think I'll wait until I get my vice mounted up and then try tube removal in the vice instead of the Park stand for a little (or alot) more leverage.
Thanks for the responses!


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

it's not pinned. I just took two of these apart myself.

most people leave pins long enough that you can easily see them inside the tubes once the tubes are cut.


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## GAAP (Oct 5, 2008)

what size tip are you using? The flame should envelope the area you are trying to heat. Were mid 80's treks brazed with silver?? Maybe brass, and you'll have to heat it to brass temps. I would have left the tube longer for better leverage. you can always try to cut the tube long ways & 'roll' it in on itself. good luck.


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

If the frame is pinned then you should be able to see the pins protruding inside the tubes once cut apart.

If the frame is silver brazed it is possible to pull it apart through heat, but it can help to have a friend with another torch to be able to heat the joint evenly or if your torch has a large rosebud heating tip, that can help too.

The other option which is honestly better most of the time is to grind, then ream the lug holes clean. Grind most of the meat with a carbide bit on a die grinder than use an adjustable reamer to clean to size. 

A combination of all these methods is sometimes necessary.

Hope that helps.

Dave Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

assuming I've got my years right, the head tube/lugs are one part on those frames. If so, it's going to be hard to replace the head "tube"


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## mhickey79 (Feb 22, 2007)

As far as I can tell, the frame is silver brazed, with no pins. 
The head lugs appear conventional, but it doesn't matter because I'll be getting a new DT, TT, HT and both HT lugs. 
I'm using a #1 Victor tip. 
Thanks for all the great ideas. Looks like I'll probably be trying a variety of methods, depending on how things go. I thought it would come apart a little easier than it is, but that's alright - I still get to play with fire and metal! I'm starting with some repairs on junker bikes just to get more practice with mitering and brazing before tackling a full build.


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

mhickey79 said:


> I'm using a #1 Victor tip.


A tip in that size for pulling apart joints is too small. I don't use a Victor but there is a nice little conversion chart here:

http://bikesmithdesign.com/Welding/Tips.html

If I were doing it, I would generally use something like a #3 #4

Most use a #2 for brazing and some pro's run bigger. You need to go bigger still to head soak it enough to get the filler to go molten all at the same time.

Always try and run a little bigger than might be comfortable. Your brazing will be better for it.

All the best,

Dave Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles


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## GAAP (Oct 5, 2008)

mhickey79 said:


> ........it doesn't matter because I'll be getting a new DT, TT, HT and both HT lugs.
> .


..............dude, I bet you'd learn more just building a new frame:madman: . mi dos centavos, compadre.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

I think it's good experience. There are tons of nice bikes out there that have gone into the back of a car or hit a curb. Or in my case, a roof rack was used to drive a pair of identical frames into a roof.


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