# Is it just Socal???



## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

Is it me, or are the vast majority of the Goaters in the Socal area a bit too smugg for their own good???

I was hitting the final sprint down ATT this last weekend, and it was pretty much ruined by about 13 exeptionally pathetic XC'ers going up and down the Old Jeep trail. 

Due to the complex belief that most of em think they have the right-of-way up the trail, I try most of the time to move out of there way ON single track. However, ATT ( or at least the only part that Goaters can do) is more than wide enough so that if both sides just stick to the right, Nobody XC - DH would have to compromise or stop. But NO, they purposely stagger themselfs all over the trail knowing we come down! 

I had to stop, and then they looked at me like I was insane to cross there path! And if that wasn't bad enough, there were five going down as well Slow as piss, and they wouldn't move out of the way for anything!!! Once I did finally get to pass them, they got mad at me, started making harsh comments and gestures at me, and tried to catch me, but couldn't .... not even up the final climb..(funny as ****!) Then I had the distinked privalage of talking to them under the bridge as I was getting ready to leave, and the details of it would max out this tread.. Needless to say, I was pretty pissed at the end, but unsurprised as this happens all too often.

What happened to common sense? What happen to letting someone pass you if your slowing them down? Why do I have these Idiots in Volkswagon spandex giving me the finger just because I'm trying to have a good time like them???

I came over here from the East Coast as a Goater, and I don't remember anyone from over there acting like this.. 

Further more, why do they even go to the Anderson Truck trail?? All they can do is climb the Fire road which isn't even that hard; they lack the skill and balls to hit 77% of the trail, which is the best part. That trail belongs to DH/FR period. I'm pretty sure If I brought a full-out DH rig to one of their XC-specific trails, that I would get a ton of dirty looks and probably get asked to leave... WTF??? 

3 days later, still pretty pissed about it, Just though I'd share it with you guys.

Have a nice day.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

trails are for everyone broham. smart and stupid alike. unfortunately for most people, you are one of the latter...


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## blender (Oct 28, 2005)

sorry dude. but i don't think you'll find much sympathy here, even if it is the DH/FR forum.
sure it sucks to have your record race run down ATT ruined by slower riders, but they have a right to be there just like you do, as slow as they may be.


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## nostrangertodanger (Feb 15, 2008)

I've never ridden that trail. can't be that gnarly if people are riding up? I agree that you would think a like minded downhill loving rider(like me.), that was going up hill would get the hell out of your way as your descending but only the case sometimes. I waited for like 20 mins at top of san juan for 20 riders to get up to me before final descent it was worth the wait but only 1 or 2 thanked me. and those 2 might get out of your way.


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## bdamschen (Jan 4, 2006)

I agree that it sucks when slower people won't let you pass at a safe area to get out of the way, but at the same time, what's the big deal? You just rode down ATT, had your fast sections, your tech sections and got your jumps and drops in, who cares if you can't pin it down a washed out fire road or not?


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I really hat eit when I get stuck behind slow guys! I understand when I am just out freeriding but not when I am going 1/2 my average speed while training for a race 2 hours beofre statrt time. 

Those guys have a right to be there too, run them over next time. 

I'm glad all the DH stuff I do is lift access riding where XC guys do not go.


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## blackagness (Mar 1, 2005)

What's a "goater"?


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## kellyn7 (Sep 26, 2005)

I kind of see your point. Just this last weekend I was out at Noble and I was just getting ready to start my run at the top (next to the fire road) and a couple cross country riders were coming by. I said hi and both of them just kinda give me that "your not welcome here" look and rode by. Another time I was down at the bottom and I was hiking my bike up and I had this other spandex clad XC rider come by and tell me how bikes should never be pushed. Here in Socal there does seem to be a little bit of distain for the DH rider. I've always been courteous to others on the trail but here in the San Diego a lot of times I feel like its not returned. 

As for the right away on the trail, the guy going up is always going to have the right away, no way around that. You just have to grab some brake and be nice. As for the coming up on slower riders, if they know you're behind them they should definately let you through otherwise I would say that's a d!ckish move. 

DH in Socal is a sensative topic because a lot of the trails used by the XC people are used by DH. I feel like Downhillers in Southern California are always going to be seen as the rag tag group of misfits that go around ruining trails and riding over the top of people. All you can do is be the bigger person and say hi and move along. 

On another note, has there been any developments on the proposal for the bike park at Vail Lake????


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## P-Funk (Jan 16, 2004)

blackagness said:


> What's a "goater"?


It must be XC riders that like to climb.


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

No, its all over. There are plenty of people who ride the one or two DH specific trails here going UP hill, when they _know_ us three or four DHers are out riding. I overheard them in the shop one day saying something like:

"oh yeah, I heard that those kids with DH bikes are going to be riding tomorrow, so we should probobly get out there before they do so we can find a good spot to block them"

Needless to say I went up to them and ratted them out for aboot 10 minutes, right infront of everyone in the shop. However, unlike socal, we have _one_ downhill trail that can not be ridden up, and several more that arent so DH specific but really suck to climb. It just really pisses me off when I call out before blind corners that I am coming down with alot of speed, and then I come around the turn and there are a bunch of **** in green spandex STANDING OFF THERE BIKES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MOTHER ****ING TRAIL! I am considering buying some motox body armor and just going and looking for the ones who do that, and plowing right through them. I'm not saying all XCers are ****, infact, one of my best buds rides XC and is ****ing good. But, when **** like this goes down, there is no excuse at all.

So no, its not only socal. There are douchebags all over the world.


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## nathan bay (Apr 16, 2007)

*Answer: NO it's not just SoCal*

There are "goaters" who think they are better than dhers and dhers who think they are better than "goaters" everywhere.


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> trails are for everyone broham. smart and stupid alike. unfortunately for most people, you are one of the latter...


I agree with Mike.


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## Windowlicker (Oct 22, 2007)

brett lambert


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## Nut! (Nov 2, 2007)

Hey man, at least you don't have to deal with passive-aggressive hippies tearing down your jumps in SoCal. I live up in Marin (birthplace of MTB, but you'd never believe from the locals attitudes). Every time I build a jump on this one trail, it gets flattened in a matter of hours. Some I never even get to hit.
I even build jumps out of the way of hikers, and every hiker I see doesn't even seem to care (most are polite, some even interested!) I think it's just one guy out there with a sense of authority, who has the time to walk this whole trail every day and tear down whatever he finds.
I figure next time i build a jump, I'm gonna cover it in Poison Oak :madmax:


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

kellyn7 said:


> I kind of see your point. Just this last weekend I was out at Noble and I was just getting ready to start my run at the top (next to the fire road) and a couple cross country riders were coming by. I said hi and both of them just kinda give me that "your not welcome here" look and rode by. Another time I was down at the bottom and I was hiking my bike up and I had this other spandex clad XC rider come by and tell me how bikes should never be pushed. Here in Socal there does seem to be a little bit of distain for the DH rider. I've always been courteous to others on the trail but here in the San Diego a lot of times I feel like its not returned. QUOTE]
> 
> Goaters do not OWN Noble ether! those Idiots ruin my ride up their also man! I stopped going there because I almost got jumped by twenty of em. The same thing that happened to you there, has happened to me there probably like 6 times or so.
> 
> ...


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## jokermtb (Mar 11, 2004)

> Here in Socal there does seem to be a little bit of distain for the DH rider.


That's because XC riders think you have your helmet on backwards.........


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

I do understand That the local trails are universal, I just wish all these XC'ers in SD/ socal area weren't so Gay.

I used to be one starting out... in fact I learned quite a few good skills XC'ing that I would have probably never learned as pure DH/FR. My prior XC & slight BMX skills helped me out a lot.

HOWEVER, If I was riding back in VA, those goaters were Bad AZZ and could FLY! I would be worried about those guys passing me.. I would probably be the slower one on the trail. The vast majority-95%) of em were fast as F***, and the slower ones at least had the common sense to know they were slow, and move off the trail for others to pass!


Now, I spank most of the Goaters uphill! They have 19-25lb weight-weene bikes, skinney tires, carbon fiber everything, and I'm spanking em up the climb with a 50lb DH beast, and they get mad at me!!! 

Totally unsat level of skill! Even If I had an XC/AM 5-inch travel bike, I would still be able to ripp and thrash down those trails were most get off and walk down. Trails like Noble and ATT aren't even hard to climb ether ... bunch of #$)(^%)_#$ 

I'm not trying to trash them completely for their skill level because it is ok to be slow and suck... a little, BUT you shouldn't have the most smugg, cocky, ( i'm better than you) attitude if you can't back it up worth a $#!T! you should move out of the ****'n way. When I used to ride the 4 corners in Corral Canyon, I didn't try to block off Dirt bikers with that right-of- way BS.


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## TireSideDown (Dec 8, 2004)

*oy...*



Gravity Assist said:


> Goaters do not OWN Noble ether! those Idiots ruin my ride up their also man! I stopped going there because I almost got jumped by twenty of em. The same thing that happened to you there, has happened to me there probably like 6 times or so.
> 
> I have to cut the trail to get around them though because they will not budge! I think there was maybe 5 people who have the desency and sense to move out of the way, and about 3 Goaters that I actually considered a decent in riding skill and could hold their own.
> 
> Not very good numbers. Ride in the after noon when none of em are there! If you need a nother shuttle sometime hit me up, and you can meet up with us. goaters tend to stay away when there are more of us together.


Dude, you kind of sound like a chode. Bad attitudes like yours only help fuel the flame when it comes to DH riders getting a bad rep. Be a bigger man; stop acting like a little cry-baby. If somebody is on the trail when you are making your run....walk your a$$ back up and do it again when it's clear. Its just part of the sport and part of sharing trail systems.


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## BrahMa (May 26, 2004)

Next time just scream "Outta my way, I'm totally DH'ing!", and they for sure will get out of your way. Guaranteed.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

Gravity Assist said:


> Blah blah blah


Dude... you sound like a 13 year old kid... "Goaters... Gay... Idiotts... #[email protected]($*, WaaaWaaaWaaa." 
Why come on hear whining online about a localized problem you have with two local trails? Both are well know to be multi use trails by all disciplines of MTBs... not to mention one being illegal and mostly being built and maintained by a few of these "goaters." And the other being a mostly a flat, all mountain trail at most. It sucks to have to yield to these riders, but if they're not gonna move, someone's gotta... I just don't see a point in whining about it in a place where said people aren't going to see it.


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## Dusty Bottoms (Jan 14, 2004)

BrahMa said:


> Next time just scream "Outta my way, I'm totally DH'ing!", and they for sure will get out of your way. Guaranteed.


Hahaha, no doubt brah.

I've never understood why the uphill rider ALWAYS has the right of way. When I'm bombing downhill, I'm going FAST, and I'm not gonna have the time or have enough control to avoid all the uphill riders if they don't move over a little. I find this happens a lot on the San Juan trail. There are SO many people heading uphill that I have to slow down a bunch of times. I think there should be some sort of rule so there are the same amount of uphill and downhill riders.

Ya know?


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## Aquaholic (Jan 13, 2004)

Dewd:

I totally agree with you. I can't tell you how many times those Goddamn goaters have ruined my flow.

Goaters must die!


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

Dusty Bottoms said:


> Hahaha, no doubt brah.
> 
> I've never understood why the uphill rider ALWAYS has the right of way. When I'm bombing downhill, I'm going FAST, and I'm not gonna have the time or have enough control to avoid all the uphill riders if they don't move over a little. I find this happens a lot on the San Juan trail. There are SO many people heading uphill that I have to slow down a bunch of times. I think there should be some sort of rule so there are the same amount of uphill and downhill riders.
> 
> Ya know?


Totally. Besides, don't the "goaters" know how gnar-core this dude is? WTF???


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

Yeah, the only reason that uphill should have right of way is that it sucks to start uphill again from a dead stop. BUT, it sucks even more to have a slow guy on an XC bike in hot pink spandex (dont get me wrong hot pink is the ****) trying to pick his way up a trail when I'm coming around a corner at atleast 5 or 6 times his speed. Next time it happens I'm gonna just stop and rat him out.


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## rexalot (Dec 27, 2005)

what next? yield for hikers?!!! 
next time just politely explain to the XCers that you have no passing skills.


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## cmooreboards (Jan 24, 2007)

You are in a losing battle my friend, just slow down, as much as it does suck, and be polite. Right now you are making us all look like idiots. Sure we love ripping downhill fast and flying down fire roads, but you don't own the trail, get over yourself dude.


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## Prexus2005 (Mar 18, 2005)

Aquaholic said:


> Dewd:
> 
> I totally agree with you. I can't tell you how many times those Goddamn goaters have ruined my flow.
> 
> Goaters must die!


ROFL! Good one!

The problem isn't SoCal/San Diego as much as it's just people in general. Some just aren't considerate as others and this applies to all area of life really.


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## TCB (Dec 28, 2004)

Gravity Assist said:


> I have to cut the trail to get around them though because they will not budge!


You have got to be joking, :madman: thanks for screwing up our trails :madmax:


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## Ithnu (Feb 16, 2007)

DHGnaR said:


> Dude... you sound like a 13 year old kid...


I read this thread and thought the same thing. Really, full blown DH is for resorts its dangerous on public trails.


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

DHGnaR said:


> Dude... you sound like a 13 year old kid... "Goaters... Gay... Idiotts... #[email protected]($*, WaaaWaaaWaaa."
> Why come on hear whining online about a localized problem you have with two local trails? Both are well know to be multi use trails by all disciplines of MTBs... not to mention one being illegal and mostly being built and maintained by a few of these "goaters." And the other being a mostly a flat, all mountain trail at most. It sucks to have to yield to these riders, but if they're not gonna move, someone's gotta... I just don't see a point in whining about it in a place where said people aren't going to see it.


 Just so you know, I posted one similar to this in the Socal forum a while back so everyone XC - DH could see it, but I'm pretty sure someone removed it...

I seriously doubt Goaters upkeep the part of the trail that actually matters to us if your talking about att like I think you are...WE...do the maintenance. I've seen XC'ers messing our stuff up, but never up-keeping it. They upkeep their own trails and cheater lines. As for the other, its not completely FLAT guy... Its not the most agressive by any means, but its alright every once and a while. I hold sessions out of my riding time to do maintenance on trails.

Further more, I don't start fights with these people intentionally. However, I do feel the need to express myself should they cross me disrespectfully. I was sharing empathy about Noble with the other person... not starting something.

I posted this because I am really surprised at the attitudes that the vast majority of these goaters pull out here. I've been to quite a few places, and its never been near this bad! Its some of the most bazzar stuff I've ever encounterd. I put this out there to see as to why they are like this.... maybe they have some DH-hate group? there was some historical event that scared them significantly? Something to explain why these guys are so damn smugg. I didn't write this to sound like a 13-year old kid.

Judging fromYour comments and feedback, your probably one of the SD locals. However, your input, blunt as it was, is apreciated; I will take it into consideration.... thank you for your input.


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## jokermtb (Mar 11, 2004)

The whole uphill/downhill right of way issue - Apparently some genius at IMBA decided that the uphill moving rider has the right of way, and they incorporated that language into the IMBA "rules of the trail"......

Now, it's blasphemy to consider this issue in any other light.

I can see how it would be harder to get going again if one had to get off the bike while going uphill, but it's not like it's impossible! When the IMBA "rules of the trail" were born, trails were a lot smoother, uphill and down, and one wasn't [or couldn't, due to lack of suspension tech] blazing downhill like people do nowdays - very difficult on a rigid Univega [which was a hot brand back when the "rules of the trail" were penned].

It's just common sense to believe that it may be actually _*harder*_ for a downhill rider on rough terrain to safely come to a complete stop to accomodate an uphill rider/hiker. On a rough scratchy downhill, it's easier to keep the momentum going than to come to a complete stop - anyone knows this nowdays.

Still, it's the responsibility of both the uphill and downhill rider to make sure their route is clear, and take blind corners fully into account upon approach....it doesn't take much from the stoke to wait an extra 4 minutes for some traffic cones to finish crawling up the hill [or down].

It's time IMBA reversed their carved in stone "rules of the trail" regarding right of way.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2008)

jokermtb said:


> The whole uphill/downhill right of way issue - Apparently some genius at IMBA decided that the uphill moving rider has the right of way, and they incorporated that language into the IMBA "rules of the trail"......
> 
> Now, it's blasphemy to consider this issue in any other light.


Blasphemy or not, they are the rules for the trail. As a DH rider you have the least amount of right's of any other user on a general use trail. Get that through your heads and you'll have a much more enjoyable time.

Unless a trail is marked as 1 way, no pedestrians or equestrians, then it is a general use trail and you shouldn't be bombing down it at mach speed anyways. Its all fun and game's until 1 pissed off hiker or "goater" files a complaint with the property manager, city council or takes the incident to a local media outlet. Then no matter what you do, the downhill community as a whole for your area will be on the defensive trying to justify why you should be allowed to ride in what everyone but other DHers consider an unsafe manner.

By riding like a inconsiderate a-hole all you're doing is giving the sport a bad reputation and making harder for people who are ACTUALLY working with land managers, park officials and city councils to get new trails built and opened up to bikers.

If you want to pretend to be Peaty or Hill, save it for the resort...


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

TCB said:


> You have got to be joking, :madman: thanks for screwing up our trails :madmax:


 They are not your trails... get that straight.
:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:


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## fixtup (Jan 10, 2008)

if it's "harder" for you to come to a stop because you're going downhill on a multi-use trail, then you're going too fast for the trail. don't ruin it for everyone because you're selfish.


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

Ithnu said:


> I read this thread and thought the same thing. Really, full blown DH is for resorts its dangerous on public trails.


 I Completely agree with you. unfortunately, full blown DH is 5 + hours away... not the most convenient for a regular thing considering time and gas.....sucks.

This tread is not about the sharing of trails... obviously thats imminent. This is about the level of dis-respect and some of the most bazzar acts of anger I've ever seen which is why there is a problem. It has been getting worse over time.


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

TireSideDown said:


> Dude, you kind of sound like a chode. Bad attitudes like yours only help fuel the flame when it comes to DH riders getting a bad rep. Be a bigger man; stop acting like a little cry-baby. If somebody is on the trail when you are making your run....walk your a$$ back up and do it again when it's clear. Its just part of the sport and part of sharing trail systems.


 Yeah, I re-read what I just wrote, and it was a little stupid. I just flashed out from a bunch of angry flash backs...sorry everyone.

This thread is not about the sharing of trails... that is imminent. It is about the level of disrespect put out by these guys. There is no medium in this case.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2008)

Gravity Assist said:


> Yeah, I re-read what I just wrote, and it was a little stupid. I just flashed out from a bunch of angry flash backs...sorry everyone.
> 
> This thread is not about the sharing of trails... that is imminent. It is about the level of disrespect put out by these guys. There is no medium in this case.


I think most people's resort's and lift runs are at least 4 hours away, no matter where you are, unless your one of the lucky one's who lives in a resort town.

Ride at low traffic times. Obviously trails are going to be most heavily used on weekend mornings. Ride during the week, or later in the day on the weekends and it'll eliminate 90% of other trail users.

Just because one group of riders has a bad attitude on the trail, doesn't mean that the solution is to show an attitude just as bad or worse. Two wrongs don't make a right (but they make you feel a whole lot better). /Hopefully not dating myself with that reference

Kill them with courtesy, make them look like the a-hole's if thats the way they want to act, yield to them, smile, tell everyone of them hello, good morning, good afternoon or whatever. I guarantee that most of them will not say a word or bat an eye if they are anything like our local "racerboiz" here in AZ. But you know what, screw them, at least you are making yourself look good and not making our demographic of riders live up to the stereotype.


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## nostrangertodanger (Feb 15, 2008)

I've been to plenty of resorts and there are people(usually euro's) out hiking on the hill too.and plenty of "goaters-uphill hooved hillclimbing beasts" also.


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## Aquaholic (Jan 13, 2004)

*Screw Goaters*

*Screw trying to reason with Goaters.* Here's what works for me and my crew.

Let's say we're descending at a good clip and we come up on some Goaters. What I do...is make sure I that I am on the inside, or mountain side of the trail. I'll slow to a crawl, just enough to let the Goater know that I am not coming to a complete stop . *The important thing to remember here.... is too stick to the inside, or mountain side. *

Now , the next move is critical, so pay attention. As the Goater is squeezing by me, I "accidently" give him/her a little nudge, or hip check, and off the side they go. This method is especially effective if there is tons of exposure on the side that they tumble off of.

My best one ever, was watching this Goater somersault some 75 yards down the canyon side.

Try this method out..it still kills your flow when you're just trying to stay in the groove. But, if you have to have you run interrupted, you can at least make it entertaining.


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

sixsixtysix said:


> I think most people's resort's and lift runs are at least 4 hours away, no matter where you are, unless your one of the lucky one's who lives in a resort town.
> 
> Ride at low traffic times. Obviously trails are going to be most heavily used on weekend mornings. Ride during the week, or later in the day on the weekends and it'll eliminate 90% of other trail users.
> 
> ...


 Cool man, thanks for the advise. Funny that I'm from AZ, and when I go back to visit and ride ( i.e. South Mountain, etc) I have no problem with XC riders over there at all. Pretty much all of them are pretty cool, and don't have the *SMUGG FACTOR*that these guys up here have... Come to think of it, I've never ran into this problem anywhere I've went, and I've ridden all over the place due to being military.... go figure.


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

Thats halarious!!!!


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

Every time a post like this comes up on the various forums, it really makes me wonder why you guys have so many issues with your trails down in So-Cal!?! ut: :idea: 

It just makes me that much happier I don't build trails in shuttleable areas for every freetard to ride.

Cheers,
EB


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2008)

Gravity Assist said:


> Cool man, thanks for the advise. Funny that I'm from AZ, and when I go back to visit and ride ( i.e. South Mountain, etc) I have no problem with XC riders over there at all. Pretty much all of them are pretty cool, and don't have the *SMUGG FACTOR*that these guys up here have... Come to think of it, I've never ran into this problem anywhere I've went, and I've ridden all over the place due to being military.... go figure.


Guessing you haven't kept up on some of the issues around these parts lately? 

Up on SoMo, I rarely have problems with other cyclists, just the occasional hiker. In the Ahwatukee Foothills on Desert Classic, well thats a different story... I don't wear a Santa Cruz jersey and I don't ride a Titus, so I get the cold shoulder


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## kidwoo (Aug 11, 2004)

I'm bummed that when people think of my favorite sport, it may be based on an interaction with you.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

They have trouble because of population density. When ever you have a limited amount of open space and a large number of different user-types, you also have conflict. If we had the same pressures on our trails, we would have the same problems. 

High population density makes people tense and defensive of their access to necessities (such as open space and parking spots). Witness our friend GravityAssist - so pent about his "rights" that he needs to rant on an internet forum.

Areas with growing populations need to look at SoCal as an example of what could happen if they don't establish use-parameters early on. Without established territory and usage rights, the smaller user groups will eventually lose privileges in order to accommodate larger groups - DH will lose to XC, XC will lose to hikers. The only small groups that will survive are those that have money (and spell-check) and can easily co-exist with the largest user group (such as equestrians).


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## dft (Apr 9, 2004)

Gravity Assist said:


> They are not your trails... get that straight.
> :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:


your a real tool man. i just got back from somo, same issue with hikers as here, really no different. big deal, some XC guys ruined your all important flow, deal with it, they do have the right of way. i imagine you blaze heavy metal music at the bottom also. go buy a clue.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

How about you make your own _secret_ DH trail that these so called "goaters" don't know about, instead of going online and b*tching about them?

I don't think you petty little problem is going to go away any time soon, so you better grow a sack and adapt.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

dft said:


> your a real tool man. i just got back from somo, same issue with hikers as here, really no different. big deal, some XC guys ruined your all important flow* on a FIRE ROAD, one of the only shared sections between DHers and XCers on this trail, that occupies all of 3min of a 25min trail*, deal with it, they do have the right of way. i imagine you blaze heavy metal music at the bottom also. go buy a clue.


Sorry, had to add on to your post. 
It's a shared section of a popular trail, oh well... I agree, it would be nice if us DHers had the right of way, but sadly, we don't... and have to deal. There is plenty of DH only type stuff on that trail, and in SD/Socal in general, and if you can be respectful, help yourself.


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

Socal guys, just be glad you dont have a bunch of old hippies to deal with.


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## bdamschen (Jan 4, 2006)

It's weird- I ride down in socal on trails like ATT and noble and have never had a problem. I ride up in Santa Cruz and Pacifica and never have a problem.

I don't ride slow by any means, and some how I don't get yelled at when I pass hikers or XCers or whatever. My trails never get torn down either. 

A little respect goes a long way; I give xc riders the respect they deserve, I give hikers the respect they deserve and I give who ever's land I build trails on the respect it deservers by not trashing the place and building somewhere that's not in everyone's way. Somehow, I never have a problem.


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

Nut! said:


> Hey man, at least you don't have to deal with passive-aggressive hippies tearing down your jumps in SoCal. I live up in Marin (birthplace of MTB, but you'd never believe from the locals attitudes). Every time I build a jump on this one trail, it gets flattened in a matter of hours. Some I never even get to hit.
> I even build jumps out of the way of hikers, and every hiker I see doesn't even seem to care (most are polite, some even interested!) I think it's just one guy out there with a sense of authority, who has the time to walk this whole trail every day and tear down whatever he finds.
> I figure next time i build a jump, I'm gonna cover it in Poison Oak :madmax:


Hey I grew up in Marin and my Parents house is here too...Marin is pretty lame in terms of biker friendly trails. I gave up on building any sort of man made object in Marin. There used to be a sick trail called Corkscrew on the back side of China Camp, filled with tons of awesome north-shore style stunts, it got torn down. Hannah Ranch got torn down, so thats two blows to the DH/FR community in Marin in the past few years.

What I'm most upset about is the really strict laws at Mt. Tam. That place has tons of biking potential that is all shuttleable from the top. They need to get their stuff together and open up some good biking trails at higher elevation. I don't even care if its XC infested *****footing around trails, one trail is better than none.


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## nbuck9 (Nov 8, 2005)

*Die Goaters Die!*

I guess Aqua's move is allright, but what I do instead is hideout in the bushes and wait for a bunch of scumbag goaters to come up the trail, then I gore them to death with a wooden spear then sharpen a stick on both sides (a la Lord of the Flies) and stake their heads along the side of said "gnar DH/FR stoke-line."

Works for me. I've never heard of the Noople Canyon place, sounds pretty steep... and scary! :eekster:


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## Zonacat (Jan 30, 2005)

Well said bdamshen. GravJunk is a tool, plain and simple.

FYI, I just got off of ATT, didn't see a soul. I "goated" up and tore down, probably faster than many on DH rigs.

The best part about this thread is that I learned a new term today, "goater".

I like the term, I really do! Now when I go riding with my buds, I'll see a nice steep pitch and say, "let's goat up that section over there!" Cool.

Thanks!

FYI, everyone on the trail deserves respect, we're all out there enjoying the great outdoors. In 12 years of riding SD trails, I have had one (1) bad encounter.

If you are a pr-ck, as gravjunktool is, your going to be treated like one.

Enjoy!


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## Bonz (Dec 1, 2004)

Aquaholic said:


> Dewd:
> 
> I totally agree with you. I can't tell you how many times those Goddamn goaters have ruined my flow.
> 
> Goaters must die!


Nice try bro, that is a "ram"


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## aword4you (Jul 25, 2005)

Maybe time to move then.


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

Last weekend, we encountered some of those goaters up near the top of Noble. You know the type: so lean that they shiver like a Chihuahua in the shade while feverishly tearing at a pack of Gu that's ironically color-coordinated with their shiny spandex shorts, jersey and socks. So, my 7-year old (fully trained in trail etiquette) hollers as we approach, "Get the Fock outta the way, ya damn GOATERS!!" and, being a cub scout, rang his bell without slowing in the least.

As we blasted by the group, frantically trying to clip out of their titanium SPD's, one of them bleated at us, "We're not goaters!". I nearly ran over my son, since the little nutcase locked 'em up and slid to a stop just below the last of them. 

He turned, looked up the hill at the indignant group with hands on thier skinny little waists, and said, "You're wearing a Santa Cruz jersey and riding a Titus. Quit fooling yourself, GOATER!!" I almost choked on my Skoal, I laughed so hard.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

EBasil said:


> Last weekend, we encountered some of those goaters up near the top of Noble. You know the type: so lean that they shiver like a Chihuahua in the shade while feverishly tearing at a pack of Gu that's ironically color-coordinated with their shiny spandex shorts, jersey and socks. So, my 7-year old (fully trained in trail etiquette) hollers as we approach, "Get the Fock outta the way, ya damn GOATERS!!" and, being a cub scout, rang his bell without slowing in the least.
> 
> As we blasted by the group, frantically trying to clip out of their titanium SPD's, one of them bleated at us, "We're not goaters!". I nearly ran over my son, since the little nutcase locked 'em up and slid to a stop just below the last of them.
> 
> He turned, looked up the hill at the indignant group with hands on thier skinny little waists, and said, "You're wearing a Santa Cruz jersey and riding a Titus. Quit fooling yourself, GOATER!!" I almost choked on my Skoal, I laughed so hard.


Way to be a role model for your son. Showing him it's "ok" to be rude to other trail users. That should keep our trails open for *future* MTBRs.


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



EBasil said:


> Last weekend, we encountered some of those goaters up near the top of Noble. You know the type: so lean that they shiver like a Chihuahua in the shade while feverishly tearing at a pack of Gu that's ironically color-coordinated with their shiny spandex shorts, jersey and socks. So, my 7-year old (fully trained in trail etiquette) hollers as we approach, "Get the Fock outta the way, ya damn GOATERS!!" and, being a cub scout, rang his bell without slowing in the least.
> 
> As we blasted by the group, frantically trying to clip out of their titanium SPD's, one of them bleated at us, "We're not goaters!". I nearly ran over my son, since the little nutcase locked 'em up and slid to a stop just below the last of them.
> 
> He turned, looked up the hill at the indignant group with hands on thier skinny little waists, and said, "You're wearing a Santa Cruz jersey and riding a Titus. Quit fooling yourself, GOATER!!" I almost choked on my Skoal, I laughed so hard.


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## rexalot (Dec 27, 2005)

A security camera caught a couple of Goaters vandalizing DHer's vehicles.
THIS IS WAR


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## Wiz (Dec 2, 2004)

EBasil said:


> Last weekend, we encountered some of those goaters up near the top of Noble. You know the type: so lean that they shiver like a Chihuahua in the shade while feverishly tearing at a pack of Gu that's ironically color-coordinated with their shiny spandex shorts, jersey and socks. So, my 7-year old (fully trained in trail etiquette) hollers as we approach, "Get the Fock outta the way, ya damn GOATERS!!" and, being a cub scout, rang his bell without slowing in the least.
> 
> As we blasted by the group, frantically trying to clip out of their titanium SPD's, one of them bleated at us, "We're not goaters!". I nearly ran over my son, since the little nutcase locked 'em up and slid to a stop just below the last of them.
> 
> He turned, looked up the hill at the indignant group with hands on thier skinny little waists, and said, "You're wearing a Santa Cruz jersey and riding a Titus. Quit fooling yourself, GOATER!!" I almost choked on my Skoal, I laughed so hard.


My God! On the contrary, I would grabbed MY kids throat & told him if I ever hear him speak to anyone like that again I'd knock his little prick up his ass. A couple of you have me stoked to rip down, well known, crowded, multiuse, two way trails at unsafe speeds in prime time yelling "KILL GOATERS" While I skid...Ya, thats Right focking SKID to a stop and flick the bird at my old man; that fukkor!

*Others in the know have me laughing hysterically.


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## Wiz (Dec 2, 2004)

rexalot said:


> A security camera caught a couple of Goaters vandalizing DHer's vehicles.
> THIS IS WAR


I just blew a wad!


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## nostrangertodanger (Feb 15, 2008)

I think that's sarcasm. dam funny though.


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## TCB (Dec 28, 2004)

Gravity Assist said:


> They are not your trails... get that straight.
> :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:


There is a difference between to words "our trails" and "my trails"

Don't change the subject, stay on the trails and stop making cheater lines :madman:


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## Hecklermark (Oct 19, 2004)

Gravity Assist said:


> I seriously doubt Goaters upkeep the part of the trail that actually matters to us if your talking about att like I think you are...WE...do the maintenance.


That's a load of BS! And just who the hell is WE? Obviously not you. Have you ever rebuilt a blown out berm or jump, filled in ruts or cut in some drainage out there?

We know who is really doing the work out the there and it's a mix of riders, not some whiny selfish jerk having a temper tantrum.


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

Zonacat said:


> Well said bdamshen. GravJunk is a tool, plain and simple.
> 
> FYI, I just got off of ATT, didn't see a soul. I "goated" up and tore down, probably faster than many on DH rigs.
> 
> ...


 What ever guy... Don't quote stuff when you don't even know what your talking about. Only tools start e-battles over the internet... its a wonder that your probably a smugg looser such as the ones I complained about prior to this. You probably haven't been in any encounters because your a spineless vaginal discharge that won't stick up for yourself, when somebody disrespects you, all though you sure can run your mouth over the internet... big tough guy Zonacat... congradulations, you've just joined a crap ton of every other e-gladiator on this forum! Happy day to you as well. No, I'm not going to meet you somewhere later to fight, don't even try to respond to this posting saying you will... just sit there and be a looser...

Just so you know, I have a pretty high tolerance for BS. If some of you have never had an issue on the trails, then I am happy for you... heaven forbid you ever do because it sure ruins a ride.

Its not like I'm a straight up dick to these people! I do try hard to avoid conflicts usually.

All I did was pass these guys, safely if I might add, I didn't say anything bad to them other than excuse me please, and that was it. But these guys followed me to my car and tried to start a fight with me under the bridge when they finally caught up to me.. and then they didn't even fight me after talking all that $#!T!!! What kind of crap is that???

Also, someone threw a F'n rock through the back window of my buddies Explorer, and wrote dirogatory remarks about DH'ers only... Not MTB'ers in general, DH'ers. The same thing has happened to quite a few people as I have found out.... I wonder who it could be???

What ever man. I hope you never have an issue on the trail. no matter how much a a doosh-bagg you are.


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## TCB (Dec 28, 2004)

Gravity Assist said:


> Also, someone threw a F'n rock through the back window of my buddies Explorer, and wrote dirogatory remarks about DH'ers only... Not MTB'ers in general, DH'ers. The same thing has happened to quite a few people as I have found out.... I wonder who it could be??? .


Let's put the BS flaming aside for a moment, vandalism is a serious matter.

When did this happen, was your friends car at it at the bottom or top and did he report it to the sheriff


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

The whole window thing happened to the wind shield of my buddies Explorer as well, not to mention they key'd fowl remarks about DH'ers.. They failed to mention anything about XC or MTB's in general, so I wonder who it could be?

Quite a few of you have bashed be on this posting trying to remind me about public trail rules, Bla Bla Bla like I'm some kind of newbe to the sport... I've done it all, been in most of their shoes, and put myself in their shoes to analyze situations.

Further more, I don't even try to start conflicts with equestrians or hikers no matter how bad they piss me off... ( come to think of it, I haven't had any problems with them EVER.. and they are what the majority of you guys are complaining about. WHICH proves a point that its not the hobby, its the people which, in this case, happen to be GOATER's all over the SD area!

I would ever start a fight with equestrians or hikers no matter how bad they pissed me off because,( as a few of you have already specified) they have more than enough power to ruin it for all of us. Just take one for the team, and save the collective bunch.

But if your on a skill-less goater with a super smugg, egocentric attitude like the vast majority in SD, and some of you on this forum *AKA Zonacat * Then you might need a reality check or two to put you back in your place every once in a while...


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

Gravity Assist said:


> What ever guy... Don't quote stuff when you don't even know what your talking about. Only tools start e-battles over the internet... its a wonder that your probably a smugg looser such as the ones I complained about prior to this. You probably haven't been in any encounters because your a spineless vaginal discharge that won't stick up for yourself, when somebody disrespects you, all though you sure can run your mouth over the internet... big tough guy Zonacat... congradulations, you've just joined a crap ton of every other e-gladiator on this forum! Happy day to you as well. No, I'm not going to meet you somewhere later to fight, don't even try to respond to this posting saying you will... just sit there and be a looser...
> 
> Just so you know, I have a pretty high tolerance for BS. If some of you have never had an issue on the trails, then I am happy for you... heaven forbid you ever do because it sure ruins a ride.
> 
> ...


A little harsh on the dude? I think he was being nicer to you than most people in this thread....
And regarding the window thing. Had it not be for the note singling out DH'ers I would have said your friend was just burgled. There used to be a white van around that area that was known for breaking into riders cars under the bridge. But we were riding there Friday and a friend told a story about another friend who recently had to blast a dookie out in the bushes, so hiked up beyond the shuttle spot and squatted behind a tree, only to watch another rider... an XC rider... bust out his window. 
I think blaming the entire XC crowd is a bit overboard. Seems like there is a rogue XC'er who really, really, really hates DH'ers who shuttle and thinks it's his job to punish us because we don't enjoy "feeling the burn" as much as he does.
I also saw broken glass under the bridge too... sucks, but he'll get caught, whether it be cops, or riders; it's gonna suck for him.
Regarding who yields to who, it's just understood that up-hill has the right of way, sucks but that's that. Suck it up, be the better person, tip your visor and say hi. Who care's if some people are pricks, I'm not gonna let them ruin my day. 
See you on the trails!


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## kellyn7 (Sep 26, 2005)

Can't we all just get along!!!!!!!!! 

It looks like the only way this debate will be settled is by a good ol' fashioned "Chinese Dowhill". If you don't know what that is check out the ever so great classic movie "Hot Dog"! 

Next week to promote peace between the "Goaters" and the "DH'rs" I'm going to pedal my downhill bike from the bottom of Nobel Canyon to the top of the Sunrise Highway without any fluids. See you all there!


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## rexalot (Dec 27, 2005)

The Last Straw!!!


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## TCB (Dec 28, 2004)

With last months trail vandalism at the top of...., car windows smashed, residents complaining about the traffic and agro trail conflicts; I predict the trail will be closed by this summer, so enjoy it while it’s still open. :thumbsup:


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## OldDogDan (Dec 3, 2006)

It's getting hard to tell who's joking and who's serious...I can't decide if this thread is hilarious or just plain sad.


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## TCB (Dec 28, 2004)

OldDogDan said:


> It's getting hard to tell who's joking and who's serious...I can't decide if this thread is hilarious or just plain sad.


it's sad :nonod:


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## Nut! (Nov 2, 2007)

OldDogDan said:


> It's getting hard to tell who's joking and who's serious...I can't decide if this thread is hilarious or just plain sad.


I know a sick north shore style park on private property out in the valley. it needs some fixin up, but if you're ever in the area, shoot me a PM.
As for my jumps, and most of the vandalism talked about on this thread, I think it comes down to one or two bad apples, f*cking it up for the rest of us. As I said, most hikers I meet are perfectly friendly.


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## Zonacat (Jan 30, 2005)

I've said my peace, I really could give a f--k. 

Funny aside story, however, is that when I parked under the fwy, I saw a big pile of broken glass, clearly from a car window. A little disheartening to leave your car where there's sporadic traffic and the knowledge that whoever has a bike rack on their car is going to be away for a little while. It did give me pause today.

And a stupid aside from the aside is that when I got back to my car, I left the passenger back door open. I feel like a pretty lucky m-fer.

Tomorrow should be another beautiful day...


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## Gravity Assist (Aug 18, 2007)

Alright Guys...


I feel quite different today than I did several days ago. Now looking back at it, I probably shouldn't have writen this posting as a lot of it was whining, and misplaced acuasations, but I'm glad I did!

Despite all the harsh remarks and comments left by some of the Socal goaters who snuck out of the XC forum, I did get to read quite a few different points and perspectives that did change my point of view on quite a few issues. 

I didn't stop to think about the over-population of riders here, were in a lot of parts of the country, people are just glad to see another MTB'er regardless of XC or DH because riders are so scarce to begin with...so that might be the reason why I'm seeing such a smugg attitude and fallout from a lot of these guys. I still think the vast quantity of them are a bit outragious, but whatever.... what can ya do.

The "kill them with curtacy" & " odd hours" sinarios show the most promise for a reasonable and doable compromise. Instead of hating them so dearly, I will try to pitty them instead to some extent. 

Thank you all for your imputs, this posting is over..


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2008)

Thanks for playing, but this one has run its course. Time to put it to bed.


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