# Paramount PDG series



## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

Anyone know or have a link to retail prices for early '90s PDG series MTBs? A search turns up info for a PDG-90, but not much else. It seems there were PDG-30,50,70 and 90.

Your guesses would be appreciated.

I'm looking at a nice PDG-30, but the guy wants more than its worth. It has deore and LX components, plastic levers with integrated push-push shifters. What really sucks is the components are the same as the Diamondback I got for free.


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## 415m3 (Mar 16, 2004)

I don't know what retail was but the last PDG-50 wouldn't budge on ebay for $300. There's a guy near me with another -50 who also wants $300, but I don't think he'll get more than half that. Decent frames but they don't command much of a market.


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## Normbilt (Jan 17, 2004)

*Early PDG's*



Fast Eddy said:


> Anyone know or have a link to retail prices for early '90s PDG series MTBs? A search turns up info for a PDG-90, but not much else. It seems there were PDG-30,50,70 and 90.
> 
> Your guesses would be appreciated.
> 
> I'm looking at a nice PDG-30, but the guy wants more than its worth. It has deore and LX components, plastic levers with integrated push-push shifters. What really sucks is the components are the same as the Diamondback I got for free.


I had a 1991 PDG-70 which retailed for $999.99
Full XT 7speed groupo Araya rims thunb shifters

The 91 line was 30-50-70-90 
30 LX $599.99
50 DX $799.99 Red Marble
70 XT $999.99 Black with Orange Spider
90 Suntour XC Pro $1099.99 Red/white & blue

In 92 they came out with Two lighter weight Silver Brazed Frames the 70&90
The 70 and 90 were made in Japan 30-50 in Taiwan
So I had to get one. I got the 70 which again came with full XT
Full built with some customization Cook Bros Cranks w/ Cooks Ti BB
Ritchey WCS H-bar 22lbs

30 LX $599.99
50 DX $799.99 Red Marble
70 XT $999.99 Wineberry (Blue/Red Iredecent)
90 Suntour XC Pro $1199.99 Violet Metalic

in 93 the PDG 90 was Full XTR 8speed
they did a 
20 Suntour
30 LX $?
50 DX $?
70 XT Cool Lime Green $1299.99
90 XTR Two tone Silver/White Very Limited $1999.99


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## BobHufford (Jun 9, 2004)

Normbilt said:


> 90 Suntour XC Pro $1099.99 Red/white & blue


...and I willing to bet that this wasn't a special "Desert Storm Edition" as so many eBay auctions like to trumpet. Geez ... one auction makes up some crap and every matching bike auction after that quotes it. Now where is my '91 catalog as I'm almost *positive* that that is a bunch of hooey.

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Correct*

The Red/White/Blue was the team paint scheme...nothing to do with Desert Storm


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Normbilt said:


> in 93 the PDG 90 was Full XTR 8speed
> they did a
> 20 Suntour
> 30 LX $?
> ...


I sold these in all of those years, but don't remember suggested retail. I have the '93 Team referenced above as a series90. According to the catalog, there were only 500 made. Mine is number 200. Here is a scan of the '93 spec page in the catalog. My Team came with a few different specs: No name handlebar and bar ends, and the rims are a silver Araya RM395 Team instead of the spec'd Suns. Pictured here with skinny tires because of muddy trails.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Reciently Resurrected 1993 R80*

Here's mine with that oh so beautiful apple green and ti color scheme. Obviously nothing stock is left.


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

Shayne said:


> Here's mine with that oh so beautiful apple green and ti color scheme. Obviously nothing stock is left.


what fork is that?

Will


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fast Eddy said:


> Anyone know or have a link to retail prices for early '90s PDG series MTBs? A search turns up info for a PDG-90, but not much else. It seems there were PDG-30,50,70 and 90.
> 
> Your guesses would be appreciated.
> 
> I'm looking at a nice PDG-30, but the guy wants more than its worth. It has deore and LX components, plastic levers with integrated push-push shifters. What really sucks is the components are the same as the Diamondback I got for free.


IMHO, I woudn't offer much for it. Is it NOS or close to it?

I've picked up a PDG70 for $40...complete bike. And like you said about the DB...


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## Normbilt (Jan 17, 2004)

sgltrak said:


> I sold these in all of those years, but don't remember suggested retail. I have the '93 Team referenced above as a series90. According to the catalog, there were only 500 made. Mine is number 200. Here is a scan of the '93 spec page in the catalog. My Team came with a few different specs: No name handlebar and bar ends, and the rims are a silver Araya RM395 Team instead of the spec'd Suns. Pictured here with skinny tires because of muddy trails.


Opps thanks for the refresher.

The Team was rumored to be made at the waterford plant.
As for that I Have two Gunnars one 26" one 29" both singlespeeders
plus a Road bike. I live bout an hour away from Waterford I go up there
periodical and see Richard Schwinn and Gunnar.

How about that Paioli Fork


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

Shayne said:


> Here's mine with that oh so beautiful apple green and ti color scheme. Obviously nothing stock is left.


I love the look of this bike. What cranks are those?


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

It's a Klein Fork


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Thanks!*

Cranks are Mavic 631/632 road cranks...of the LeMond Tour de France fame. 
I've got a ton of road spares so I threw a bunch on here. It originally had an all road drivetrain but I over torqued the Record f derailleur and snapped the clamp...d'oh! So now it's got an LX.


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## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

Rumpfy said:


> Is it NOS or close to it?...


I haven't seen it in person, but it looks like it from the pictures.



Rumpfy said:


> I've picked up a PDG70 for $40...complete bike. And like you said about the DB...


I know. I'm keeping my mind off it with other projects. I built my Jamis Dragon into a rigid 7 speed for urban assault duty. I'm dying to try it out.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fast Eddy said:


> I haven't seen it in person, but it looks like it from the pictures.
> 
> I know. I'm keeping my mind off it with other projects. I built my Jamis Dragon into a rigid 7 speed for urban assault duty. I'm dying to try it out.


Hmm...IMHO, sounds like it's not really something to spend too much money on.

VeloSwap is coming up too...


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## t2p (Jul 22, 2004)

Fast Eddy said:


> Anyone know or have a link to retail prices for early '90s PDG series MTBs? A search turns up info for a PDG-90, but not much else. It seems there were PDG-30,50,70 and 90.
> 
> Your guesses would be appreciated.
> 
> I'm looking at a nice PDG-30, but the guy wants more than its worth. It has deore and LX components, plastic levers with integrated push-push shifters. What really sucks is the components are the same as the Diamondback I got for free.


.
.
Forget the TIG'd PDG-30. The 50 and 70 series TIG'd bikes were much better. If you want a TIG'd PDG bike, look for a '91or '92 50 series or a '91 70 series. These bikes featured a better frame (better grade of steel - Tange Prestige butted I believe). The 30 series was a heavy bike.
. 
See Normbilt's (excellent) reply - and/or search on one of my previous replies on the Schwinn Paramount PDG off road bikes - for additional detail. 
.
I prefer the lugged PDG bikes - especially the '92 70 and 90 series ('Brandywine' and 'Blue Velvet Gas' are the colors I believe). They had great frames and can be purchased at bargain prices. Ditto for the '93 lugged frames.
.
.
btw: A search of some Schwinn dealers may turn up a NOS PDG TIG'd bike ..... and/or a 93 lugged version. 
.


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

A bit off topic, but.....

I just picked up an early 90s Schwinn Impact Pro. The geometry looks very similar to a Paramount and it has MOS (Mountain Over Sized) tubing, although its only double butted 4130 instead of Tange Prestige. It also has the curved G-Force chainstays but unlike the Paramounts, this one has both chainstays that way. Kinda pointless on the non drive side, but maybe it was cheaper to use the same ones on both sides. 

Has anyone owned/ridden/seen one of these?


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

*Picked up a Paramountain today*

I just picked up this Paramountain today. As I think they all do, it has Ned's signature and front _and rear_ XT U-brakes. Looks to be in pretty good shape except it came to me with 8 cogs (and related incorrect hub spacing) and obviously non-original Alex wheels. I assume it should have XT M730 hubs and Arayas of some sort. The derailleurs, cranks, pedals and thumbies are M730 and the stem and seatpost are Suntour XC.

Anyway, this should be a good project! Quickie photos follow (pardon the mess!  ).


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Sweet! Thats the 1st red one I've seen. Mine was originally yellow but these were custom frames so any '86 / '87 parts build will do. I went with Shimano M730 componets and Suntour Roller Cams, Araya RM20 rims


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Oh ya, the seat post is Suntour XC also. You'll need to get that '86 Durango Norba Nationals DVD from Sky. It's got Ned and Cindy Whitehead winning on there Paramountains plus alot of other cool stuff.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

Thanks, Ken. Your Paramountain looks incredible! I actually used your photos when researching this bike. The previous owner did not have this advertised correctly (didn't know what they had); so I had to do some detective work to confirm what it was.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Where did you find this one? This is RGJ's black beauty. These are the only complete Paramountains I've seen


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## t2p (Jul 22, 2004)

grawbass said:


> A bit off topic, but.....
> 
> I just picked up an early 90s Schwinn Impact Pro. The geometry looks very similar to a Paramount and it has MOS (Mountain Over Sized) tubing, although its only double butted 4130 instead of Tange Prestige. It also has the curved G-Force chainstays but unlike the Paramounts, this one has both chainstays that way. Kinda pointless on the non drive side, but maybe it was cheaper to use the same ones on both sides.
> 
> Has anyone owned/ridden/seen one of these?


.
Cool. I liked the Impact Pro. My bro-in-law rode an Impact Pro for years. 
.
btw: The '91 TIG'd Schwinn Paramount frames also featured two curved chainstays - the '92 versions (at least the '92 50 series that I saw) featured one curved and one straight.
.


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## t2p (Jul 22, 2004)

Fast Eddy said:


> Anyone know or have a link to retail prices for early '90s PDG series MTBs? A search turns up info for a PDG-90, but not much else. It seems there were PDG-30,50,70 and 90.
> 
> Your guesses would be appreciated.
> 
> I'm looking at a nice PDG-30, but the guy wants more than its worth. It has deore and LX components, plastic levers with integrated push-push shifters. What really sucks is the components are the same as the Diamondback I got for free.


.
.Check out this '91 Series 90:
.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7185673409&category=98083
.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

that '91 PDG 90 used to be mine  , I sold it to that guy, nice bike but too small for me, otherwise it would of been a keeper


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

t2p said:


> .
> Cool. I liked the Impact Pro. My bro-in-law rode an Impact Pro for years.
> .
> btw: The '91 TIG'd Schwinn Paramount frames also featured two curved chainstays - the '92 versions (at least the '92 50 series that I saw) featured one curved and one straight.
> .


Good call. I did not know that. Mine could very well be a '91.


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## BobHufford (Jun 9, 2004)

*1987 Paramountain Catalog Scan*

I recently picked up the '87 Schwinn ATB catalog. Here is the page with the Paramountain:

http://www.geocities.com/sldbconsumer/1987/87atb03.html

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO


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## abmtnbkr (Sep 26, 2005)

Perfect thread to post my find. I found this at my local swap meet and judging from the information in this thread, I'm guessing it's a 91. It has the black marble looking paint and has some LX components. The shock on front is an RST which I know is not original but seems to be ok. I would like to swap it out for a matching fork sometime down the road. 
The thing about this bike that caught my eye was the headset. It's got a real cool color that I have not seen on a headset before. 
Anyways, my plan for this is to just clean it up and not dump any money into it but use it as is for the occasional beer run. I welcome any comments or any more specific info on this bike.


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

abmtnbkr said:


> Perfect thread to post my find. I found this at my local swap meet and judging from the information in this thread, I'm guessing it's a 91. It has the black marble looking paint and has some LX components. The shock on front is an RST which I know is not original but seems to be ok. I would like to swap it out for a matching fork sometime down the road.
> The thing about this bike that caught my eye was the headset. It's got a real cool color that I have not seen on a headset before.
> Anyways, my plan for this is to just clean it up and not dump any money into it but use it as is for the occasional beer run. I welcome any comments or any more specific info on this bike.


That is a cool looking headset. I've never seen that color before. Looks like bronze.


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## neveride (Feb 7, 2004)

Here's a crappy pic of my series 70 (1991? Black with orange spider tig frame)

Bought it as a frame and swapped parts, except for the fork which was a loaner (had a manitou 1, then 2, for most of its life).

Forgive the photo, only one I had handy.


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## steveit (Jan 25, 2004)

tig'ed series 30 disguised as a high timber--i think they were the same bike at one point


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

*Classic bike repair book with '93 Paramount on cover...*

I still use this book. Actually, it's now a good resource for older bikes/parts these days. That being said, I'm throughly impressed with the vintage-applcable content in Zinn's book (I have the latest edition), too.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

Here's the back cover of the same book. Note the Stumpy Team (my roomate had one just like it), the scary 90s clothing choice and the Nuke Proof hubs! Oh yeah, the pink Klein road bike is cool, too. Those were the days (?)...


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## BobHufford (Jun 9, 2004)

*Paramountain Serial Numbers?*

Where are the serial numbers located on your Paramountains and what format are they in?

Thanks,

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO


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## BobHufford (Jun 9, 2004)

*Paramountain Serial Numbers?*

Where are the serial numbers located on your Paramountains and what format are they in?

Thanks,

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO


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## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

That's amazing. I've got that specizlized frame on the way via the brown santa, and I'm going up to a buddy's to pick up that paramount this weekend. The Paramount has a cracked head tube though. 8^(


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

BobHufford said:


> Where are the serial numbers located on your Paramountains and what format are they in?
> 
> The are located under the bottom bracket. Mine is F654577 but dont know the format, here are 2 other serial numbers from Paramountains, F654338, E736774


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## BobHufford (Jun 9, 2004)

kb11 said:


> Mine is F654577 but dont know the format, here are 2 other serial numbers from Paramountains, F654338, E736774


Thanks! Your's and the other "F6" decodes to June of 1986, while the "E7" decodes to May of 1987. This fits the "standard" Schwinn serial number scheme that was also used on the KOM-10 (thanks John E.!) and other Greenville, Mississippi built Schwinns. That early '86 build is a bit surprising. Good to know!

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

BobHufford said:


> Thanks! Your's and the other "F6" decodes to June of 1986, while the "E7" decodes to May of 1987. This fits the "standard" Schwinn serial number scheme that was also used on the KOM-10 (thanks John E.!) and other Greenville, Mississippi built Schwinns. That early '86 build is a bit surprising. Good to know!
> 
> Mine has the World Chanpionship stripes on the head tube and toptube I though that was from the win at Ned had at the Durrango Norba Nationals, also considered unoffical World Championships. Wasnt this race in August of '86?


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## BobHufford (Jun 9, 2004)

kb11 said:


> Mine has the World Chanpionship stripes on the head tube and toptube I though that was from the win at Ned had at the Durrango Norba Nationals, also considered unoffical World Championships. Wasnt this race in August of '86?


I've only seen this bike as an '87 "model". Schwinn stamped their frames at the time of build, but they were sometimes not painted or assembled until months later. You'll often see the headbadges stamped with the assembly date code -- a four digit sequence of the Julian day and last digit of the year. Unfortunately the Paramountains don't have a headbadge. Maybe these were brazed up mid-'86 and then painted/decaled at year end (with the world-champ decals).

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

BobHufford said:


> I've only seen this bike as an '87 "model". Schwinn stamped their frames at the time of build, but they were sometimes not painted or assembled until months later. You'll often see the headbadges stamped with the assembly date code -- a four digit sequence of the Julian day and last digit of the year. Unfortunately the Paramountains don't have a headbadge. Maybe these were brazed up mid-'86 and then painted/decaled at year end (with the world-champ decals).
> 
> Do you have any idea of how many were made? From your '87 catalog it looks like it was available as a frameset only.


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## BobHufford (Jun 9, 2004)

kb11 said:


> Do you have any idea of how many were made? From your '87 catalog it looks like it was available as a frameset only.


I'm afraid I don't know the production numbers. Richard Schwinn at Waterford might.

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

BobHufford said:


> Thanks! Your's and the other "F6" decodes to June of 1986, while the "E7" decodes to May of 1987. This fits the "standard" Schwinn serial number scheme that was also used on the KOM-10 (thanks John E.!) and other Greenville, Mississippi built Schwinns. That early '86 build is a bit surprising. Good to know!
> 
> Bob Hufford
> Springfield, MO


My Paramountain's serial # is F654354. Also note that it has the following "codes", which follow a symbol I don't recognize (see photos):

1) On bottom of head tube/top tube lug: G1








2) On bottom of head tube/seat tube lug: F7.7









Does anyone have some idea what these codes are? Might they correspond to codes that would normally have been on or under the head tube badge?

Cason


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## BobHufford (Jun 9, 2004)

cegrover said:


> Does anyone have some idea what these codes are? Might they correspond to codes that would normally have been on or under the head tube badge?


I would guess that these are the lug manufacturer's markings.

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO


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## Ronk (Oct 23, 2005)

I had that exact Paramount. It was all the rage in purple, but the fork was another story. Both legs never went in the same direction, I added a Clark-Kent brace and all that accomplished was to make it one front end heavy bike. I swapped it out for a Mag 21 and it handled pretty well. I rode that frame for about 10 years before she finally gave out. Prior to that I had a '91 series 50 - that bike was probably the most fun to ride of any I have ever owned. The buddies that I rode with in college were Paramount fans. I had the Series 60, there was also a Series 40, 70, and 80.

I am currently putting together a parts group for a '93 series 80. It will have a mix of XTR/XT with a NOS softride stem (w/ hydraulic damper no less!). Does anyone recommend a painter w/ access to original stickers. I believe Waterford used to do this but it has been a while since I have spoken to them.

Doug


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## BobHufford (Jun 9, 2004)

Ronk said:


> Does anyone recommend a painter w/ access to original stickers. I believe Waterford used to do this but it has been a while since I have spoken to them.


They still do ...

http://www.waterfordbikes.com/site/repairrestoration/paramount_os1993-4.php

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

neveride said:


> Here's a crappy pic of my series 70 (1991? Black with orange spider tig frame)
> 
> Bought it as a frame and swapped parts, except for the fork which was a loaner (had a manitou 1, then 2, for most of its life).
> 
> Forgive the photo, only one I had handy.


Do you have more pics???

This is the bike a friend of mine had back in the day when we started doing MTB!!

I had a crappy Benotto and he had this sweet Schiwnn and a Red Diamond Back Ascent (?).

Cool... it brings some memories back to me.


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