# Decency question



## Newbie10 (Jul 14, 2014)

So I was towel changing today after a ride in a neighborhood near the trail head, as I frequently do, and a guy got angry about it saying “have respect “ and “kids live here”. Growing up surfing, we towel changed all the time wherever we parked and never thought twice about it. And after having done it at least 500 times over the years, never had a comment. Yoga pants show more, and hey- we are all naked under our clothes!

So am I wrong? Or was he just a stuck up prude. don’t want to be unpleasant, so should I reconsider this? What does the community say? 


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## FROTHY (Jan 19, 2018)

Were there houses/parks/busy areas around you?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Half dozen of one, six of another. All depends on the area, proximity to homes, etc. I have had it where even taking my shirt off people give snide comments (and I am fit, not like I have some beer belly or dunlap syndrome) and others I have literally seen people getting completely naked between the front and rear door on the opposite side of a vehicle with no tinting and no one bats an eye.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

It sounds like he was just being a territorial jerk, if you were discreet he had nothing to notice. However: if you're in a neighborhood in front of houses you should be more discreet than at a regular trailhead or beach (my opinion). I towel change all the time, but my wife bought me a pop-up changing tent for races our family goes to because she hates seeing people change (sometimes clumsily and not discreetly) in towels. - Maybe the guy saw a little too much skin the day before? I recently saw a new changing 'thing', it was like a poncho with hood that went down to the guys knees, and he just changed under it, and the hood kept it up, very discreet. 
I can see how somebody could get irritated at people changing in front of or near their homes, with varying levels of discretion.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

Counter argument: if there was a cop around and the guy complained to him, you'd be on a sex offender registry by now.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Personally, I could care less as long as you're minding your own business. As long as you're not breaking any laws just shrug it off. Life's too short to worry about what every single person thinks.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Must have been Amish.


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

Wouldn't bother me and my kid is grown and can form his own opinion but would think if you were being discreet about it that it would be fine with him as well. 

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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

Maybe invest in a surf robe?


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## Newbie10 (Jul 14, 2014)

Interesting- mixed replies..... I think I’ll try to be more discrete. Never would have thought..... 


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm not sure how many trail head parking lots I've changed in but it must be in the thousands. It's fairly commonplace in my experience. A guy exercising or whatever minding his own business changing is completely harmless. I would have told the guy to get away from me STAT.

I was finishing up a ride at Lewis River WA. There are a couple of amazing swimming holes that attract the ladies. I'm enjoying a post ride beer when 2 attractive girls walk out of the trail head that had been swimming. The absolutely gorgeous one starts chatting me up on camping spots & stuff and wilithout missing a beat steps into the woodsline and disrobes. She stares right at me with a big smile as she changes right in front of me and continues the conversation. I'm sure she was toying with me and I'm ok with that.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I think the OP’s crux phrase was “in a neighborhood near the trailhead.” It wouldn’t bother me personally, but I can see homeowners on a residential street having an issue vs actually being in the trailhead parking lot.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

People change at the trail head??? 

I have done it twice. Once because I had a meeting and was riding after, second was I got mud and horse crap on my back. But I have chamios under my shorts so worst thing to see is the under 10seconds my spare tire (used to be a full on Goodyear Wrangler, working on it) is showing while I change shirts. Other than that I don't understand changing anything besides shoes unless you have somewhere to be. Which I know many of course ride before or after work but even then I change at work.

Not cause I care, I know how to stay covered. But ffs this "sex offender registry" stuff has gotten outta hand. You piss in the woods and someone sees you, boom your a sex offender because you didn't want to wet your pants. There are actually people here on the registry for pissing outside, one I know was a 15yr old decided to cross a yard she didn't belong in. Saw him with it hanging out taking a leak. Told her parents and boom he was in court.

That's why I'm insanely cautious not to even let one ass cheek come out. Not a battle I want to deal with.

Oh and around here, don't get caught getting freaky in the wilderness.... unless you know several officers in the dept. Yeah that can land you there too. Even walking through your own house naked if a window is open. Sex offender registry. Freaking stupid

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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

RAKC Ind said:


> People change at the trail head???


Well I'm not walking around all day with bibs and a jersey under my regular clothes. I keep my bike(s) and clothes in my van and pretty much always change at the trailhead. If it's really crowded I'll go change in the stinky pit toilet but usually just hide behind my van. Most times I change back into my regular clothes at the trailhead too because I'd rather not hang out in sweaty gear.

Seems crazy to me that doing that would bother anyone but I realize it's a crazy world.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

RAKC Ind said:


> People change at the trail head???
> Other than that I don't understand changing anything besides shoes unless you have somewhere to be.
> Not cause I care, I know how to stay covered. But ffs this "sex offender registry" stuff has gotten outta hand.


If I don't go straight out of my door, and I need to drive with car to trail head, then I always change there... and especially when I come back. When I'm done, my clothes are sweaty wet and most of time also pretty dirty. If it's +30c then spending hour in sweaty wet clothes won't be end of the world, but when it's colder, you get sick pretty easy this way. And I'm used back from my racing days where staying healthy was big priority, to change right after your training/race finishes. If someone has problem seeing me naked for 10sec next to car, it's their problem.
But luckily I don't live in country, where I would need to worry (yet) for being marked as sex offender simply because I changed clothes on parking lot.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

>>>>>>>>>use a ROBE not a towel


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> >>>>>>>>>use a ROBE not a towel


What's the difference?


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

I do the towel change all the time at most trailheads, but there have been a few times, where I felt it was inappropriate... so I didn't. A regular neighborhood street is taking your liberties a bit far IMO. 

I would think it very weird to see you changing in front of my house, in my neighborhood.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Typically ride in remote areas so I never got busted but not surprised there have been 'events' for some who frequent higher traffic areas. I have a full sized pickup so it's easier to 'shelter' while doing a quick change. 

A sex offender charge for changing out of mountain bike gear at a remote trail head is a bit over the top, but if you're in a school parking lot during recess...well maybe not so much!


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Joules said:


> Counter argument: if there was a cop around and the guy complained to him, you'd be on a sex offender registry by now.


Is this true?
I have a hard time buying that.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Newbie10 said:


> So am I wrong?


No, his problem. Using a little discretion is always a good thing though.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> Is this true?
> I have a hard time buying that.


Probably unlikely, but public nudity is considered a sex crime in every state I know of. Like RAKC said, there are a shocking number of people on the registry for peeing behind a tree.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> What's the difference?


a robe generally covers you up completely which won't shock those sensitive
nagging types as much as a towel. with a roomy robe you can change underneath
it but won't look like it's gonna drop and u b naked while they can't help staring.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

First, are you a girl or a guy? Guy, sex offender. Girl, its OK.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Sex Offender all depends on complaint and state rules/policy/regulations, so that is not a given as it could be just an "indecent exposure" citation.

As for a more discreet way... I found this through BKXC and will be purchasing one for myself (he uses a different company that is WAY more expensive).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CV1P9U...olid=3EDXJ4SKB0BQM&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

these things are what I use CX racing or MTB racing when I drive to the location
and do not have a hotel

https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Dressing-Changing-Tent-Carrying/dp/B00ZPZ7NLE


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

gregnash said:


> Sex Offender all depends on complaint and state rules/policy/regulations, so that is not a given as it could be just an "indecent exposure" citation.
> 
> As for a more discreet way... I found this through BKXC and will be purchasing one for myself (he uses a different company that is WAY more expensive).
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CV1P9U...olid=3EDXJ4SKB0BQM&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


Dude, if I saw some guy wearing that, I would call the cops!


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

You know where you were, you know the details....we really don't. Be a big boy and figure it out yourself.


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## shortnangry (Nov 16, 2014)

Joules said:


> Probably unlikely, but public nudity is considered a sex crime in every state I know of. Like RAKC said, there are a shocking number of people on the registry for peeing behind a tree.


Conviction for public nudity - as in exposed genitals - results in sex offender registration in 32 states (7 require a minor to have seen the display and some others require some kind of lewd or offensive act). Conviction for peeing in public in 13 states results in registration (2 require a minor to have seen and 1 is for repeat offenders). So it all depends on where you are.

I thought posters here were being nuts, but it's true that in some states public nudity or peeing will get you on a sex offender registry.


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

https://www.pactimo.com/products/quick-release-changing-kilt-trade


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> these things are what I use CX racing or MTB racing when I drive to the location
> and do not have a hotel
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Dressing-Changing-Tent-Carrying/dp/B00ZPZ7NLE


That's actually pretty cool! - I change at home, problem solved. I just have a pair of shorts and a t-shirt in the car just in case. The only thing I change is shoes.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Vespasianus said:


> Dude, if I saw some guy wearing that, I would call the cops!


LOL... then you are as big a prude as the dude that complained... Whatever you do don't ever walk near an all day baseball tourney, soccer tourney, tennis tourney, etc. Can tell you how many times in HS I simply wrapped a towel around me and dropped trow to change into real clothes that didn't stink of sweat, mud, grass and other things after a game.

The fact that so many people have gotten in trouble and required to register for simply peeing outside shows that our society has an INCREDIBLY LARGE stick shoved up our preverbial A$$. Geez people grow a set and be an adult. If it is just some regular joe schmo that needed to evacuate because he was about to piss his pants and actually made an effort to get out of sight but just happened to be seen by someone, that is totally different than your average day flasher/toucher.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I change in my car all the time at the trailhead. Or beach. Never had so much as a weird look. Pretty common I suppose.

However, I wouldn't want some dildo getting naked in front of my house! If I have to park in a neighborhood, I'll change before I get there. Just seems respectful.


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## Guest (May 11, 2018)

RAKC Ind said:


> People change at the trail head???
> 
> I have done it twice. Once because I had a meeting and was riding after, second was I got mud and horse crap on my back. But I have chamios under my shorts so worst thing to see is the under 10seconds my spare tire (used to be a full on Goodyear Wrangler, working on it) is showing while I change shirts. Other than that I don't understand changing anything besides shoes unless you have somewhere to be. Which I know many of course ride before or after work but even then I change at work.
> 
> ...


:lol::lol::lol: I change anywhere and everywhere...no courtesy towel either...sh!t, I'm naked right now


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> Well I'm not walking around all day with bibs and a jersey under my regular clothes. I keep my bike(s) and clothes in my van and pretty much always change at the trailhead. If it's really crowded I'll go change in the stinky pit toilet but usually just hide behind my van. Most times I change back into my regular clothes at the trailhead too because I'd rather not hang out in sweaty gear.
> 
> Seems crazy to me that doing that would bother anyone but I realize it's a crazy world.


If you got a van, why are you changing outside at all?


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

griz said:


> :lol::lol::lol: I change anywhere and everywhere...no courtesy towel either...sh!t, I'm naked right now


A couple years ago, I would say no big deal as long as you're trying to be discreet. Now, that apparently it's a thing for guys to just get naked in front of chicks and jack it(Louie CK and many others) I would say be careful because it's going to be hard to explain to a cop/judge what you were doing if some lady makes eye contact with you with your pants down and freaks. P

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Wait. 

A person complained about a shirtless man?

Did you laugh at that person, OP?




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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Rockadile said:


> If you got a van, why are you changing outside at all?


Easier & more convenient. My van is about 4.5 ft. high inside and I'm 6'2".


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I'm a cop and no I wouldn't charge someone that was legit changing and not actually exposing them self at a trail head. If anything...I'd just advise the person to try and be a little more discrete...but if nothing is being exposed...you really can't be more discrete other than going somewhere and using a bathroom or just driving home and changing there. I can't imagine causing someone to become a sex offender because of simply using a towel and changing their clothes in the parking lot of a bike trail. I even do it from time to time...but instead of a towel I put on a Sport Kilt and use that in the same manner. In my state...I've never heard of that even being a possibility. There's more criteria that would need to be met before charging someone and upon conviction the person becoming a registered sex offender.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Being dead serious here:

A towel covers far more than shorts. Why is it acceptable to wear shorts, but not a towel?

Unless your ass is exposed to sunshine, how could someone be in violation of any statute? When last I checked, no, the government doesn’t get to decide what is or isn’t appropriate clothing, as long as my junk is covered. 

Hell, I regularly wear a pair of Ranger panties outside on the summer time. The towel I use to charge in a parking lot covers a hell of a lot more than they do. 



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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nubster said:


> I'm a cop and no I wouldn't charge someone that was legit changing and not actually exposing them self at a trail head. If anything...I'd just advise the person to try and be a little more discrete...but if nothing is being exposed...you really can't be more discrete other than going somewhere and using a bathroom or just driving home and changing there. I can't imagine causing someone to become a sex offender because of simply using a towel and changing their clothes in the parking lot of a bike trail. I even do it from time to time...but instead of a towel I put on a Sport Kilt and use that in the same manner. In my state...I've never heard of that even being a possibility. There's more criteria that would need to be met before charging someone and upon conviction the person becoming a registered sex offender.


Hooray for common sense!


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

^ I agree. Don't bring attention to yourself.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

Nubster said:


> I'm a cop and no I wouldn't charge someone that was legit changing and not actually exposing them self at a trail head.


did you miss the part where it's not a trail head but a neighborhood? Did you miss the part where a neighbor complained to the guy?

There's 2 sides to every story, OP acts like he's doing nothing wrong (and also that he doesn't see nudity as doing anything wrong), the neighbor on the other hand probably saw it as OP flashing. And his kids are present. I don't see OP ever stating that he's 100% sure nothing slipped out.
Does deliberately exposing yourself to children qualify in your cop-view? Could that get you on the registry?

If you got a call of someone complaining of a flasher in the neighborhood do you get to just decide not to charge? (genuinely curious now)


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Joules said:


> did you miss the part where it's not a trail head but a neighborhood? Did you miss the part where a neighbor complained to the guy?
> 
> There's 2 sides to every story, OP acts like he's doing nothing wrong (and also that he doesn't see nudity as doing anything wrong), the neighbor on the other hand probably saw it as OP flashing. And his kids are present. I don't see OP ever stating that he's 100% sure nothing slipped out.
> Does deliberately exposing yourself to children qualify in your cop-view? Could that get you on the registry?
> ...


I think there is a HUGE difference between FLASHING or exposing yourself vs. changing under a towel.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Joules said:


> did you miss the part where it's not a trail head but a neighborhood? Did you miss the part where a neighbor complained to the guy?


True, but did you miss the part where it was mentioned that changing at a trailhead parking lot is risky business that could get you convicted as a sex offender? I think maybe Nubster was replying to that.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

jcd46 said:


> I think there is a HUGE difference between FLASHING or exposing yourself vs. changing under a towel.


so the way you get away with flashing is to pretend it wasn't intentional... sure, that will fly.


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## Guest (May 11, 2018)

cyclelicious said:


> ^ I agree. Don't bring attention to yourself.


Mmmmm hmmm...look at little Georgie's titties :eekster::yikes::lol:


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Joules said:


> so the way you get away with flashing is to pretend it wasn't intentional... sure, that will fly.


Well, that's a different topic. Again, if you are trying to get way with exposing yourself you are sick bastard, and I hope they get caught. If you are just changing some clothes without any malice, I don't see the problem.

I wouldn't change in a public place, heck I don't change at the TH just put on my knee pads, shoes, helmet, gloves. In a neighborhood, if you are doing that, you should take extra measures to make sure you are safe.

It boils down to always behaving in a respectful manner.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

jcd46 said:


> Well, that's a different topic. Again, if you are trying to get way with exposing yourself you are sick bastard, and I hope they get caught. If you are just changing some clothes without any malice, I don't see the problem.
> 
> I wouldn't change in a public place, heck I don't change at the TH just put on my knee pads, shoes, helmet, gloves. In a neighborhood, if you are doing that, you should take extra measures to make sure you are safe.
> 
> It boils down to always behaving in a respectful manner.


it doesn't matter in the least what is actually going on

if ANYONE barks about 'exposed', or 'offended' even if you are fully clothed, BOOM goes the dynamite and you are now gonna have to find a lawyer to keep your house and your job.

it is that easy to get your face in the news and....you cannot expect squirm your way out, no matta what, if the busybody narc won't let up.

so, get a robe or tent or just do not change clothes outdoors anywhere. save face ahead of time. idiots with nothing better to do than ruin your life are out there everywhere looking for something to cling to, and get fired up about. don't let it be you.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

first off...I am pretty liberal on most topics. Grew up in the punk rock/metal world, so I have seen my fair share of what most would consider "indecent craziness", and my definition is pretty open for what will offend me but I still think you need to be discrete when it comes to things like this. 

Because of respect. Respect for other people. Respect for the world around you. 

What is acceptable for you might not be acceptable for others. The concept of "me" or "I" should NEVER out do the concept of "we"...I think. And in this situation, the concept of "what was comfortable for me" over ruled what would have been comfortable for all. Not to sound like the old man shaking the fist, but I think that is why this country is starting to fall apart...too many people just think about "me" instead of "we"...but that is for another thread

Changing at the trailhead is more acceptable in my mind because it is a place where that kind of thing is expected. Not in the middle of someones neighborhood. Just like all of the punk craziness I ever experienced was always in a place where it was expected to happen, not at some strangers house or personal property

Personally I never change in public anywhere b/c I want to spare people the misery of seeing any part of my body...it is my gift to the world. I have learned to change in my car, or I just find a bathroom to do it in.


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## Newbie10 (Jul 14, 2014)

shortnangry said:


> Conviction for public nudity - as in exposed genitals - results in sex offender registration in 32 states (7 require a minor to have seen the display and some others require some kind of lewd or offensive act). Conviction for peeing in public in 13 states results in registration (2 require a minor to have seen and 1 is for repeat offenders). So it all depends on where you are.
> 
> I thought posters here were being nuts, but it's true that in some states public nudity or peeing will get you on a sex offender registry.


Again- not naked when using a towel and nothing can be seen. Yes, I'm naked under the towel, but I'm also naked under my clothes right now!

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Nubster said:


> There's more criteria that would need to be met before charging someone and upon conviction the person becoming a registered sex offender.


This sounds a lot more realistic to me.

I'm a little surprised there's mountain bikers in here arguing the exposure perspective.
"Why cange outside when you have a van"
 "I never change at the trail head"...
whaaaaat?
It baffles me how prevalent violence is but god forbid someone catches a flash of your butt.

I expose myself all the time...to my friends. It's funny. "Hey Chris can you take a look at this for me", as I'm bending over taking off my chamois. Or, "does this smell right to you?" as I hand them my chamois.
Lighten up people.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Is it illegal to walk around in public wearing only a robe? Or a towel?


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## Newbie10 (Jul 14, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> Is it illegal to walk around in public wearing only a robe? Or a towel?


Is a dress or kilt different than a towel? Are women required to wear underwear under a dress? I can't imagine a court upholding an indecent exposure charge without an exposure!

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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Newbie10 said:


> Is a dress or kilt different than a towel? Are women required to wear underwear under a dress? I can't imagine a court upholding an indecent exposure charge without an exposure!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


they are not required...but again, some issues should be governed by a higher "law" of respect for (yourself) and your fellow beings. Sometimes what a court would decide has nothing to do with morality...

again, not judging, but just bringing a different light to it. Would I personally be offended if a guy with a kilt was walking along, and the wind blew it up to expose his junk? Probably not...BUT, if a guy with a kilt was walking along and just dropped it to the ground to pee "because it was more convenient for him" than I would be pissed


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

shortnangry said:


> I thought posters here were being nuts, but it's true that in some states public nudity or peeing will get you on a sex offender registry.


And that is all I was trying to say: a good way to get f#cked by the legal system is to assume it makes sense or is fair, or that if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Is it illegal to walk around in public wearing only a robe? Or a towel?


a woman can go topless anytime anywhere in Maine or NY...totally legal,

but actually do it, see what happens, you life will be **** for a loooooong time, just fending off the public outcry, email you get, facebook twitter instagram outrage....from all the crazies who need a new cause to feel important about...as I said, don't let it be you, legal or not. too much baggage

anyway, all this being said. I take whizzes in the woods on MTB rides, knowing full well if somehow someone sees me, welp. I could be busted as a sex offender.

changing clothes ? inside the truck, or inside my popup screen, or under a robe. are the only things I would feel safe about doing nowadays


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

^There's a huge naked bike ride in Portland. Topless day on the max train, underwear day on the max. Don't think it ruined anybody's life...to the contrary.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

WHALENARD said:


> I'm not sure how many trail head parking lots I've changed in but it must be in the thousands. It's fairly commonplace in my experience. A guy exercising or whatever minding his own business changing is completely harmless. I would have told the guy to get away from me STAT.
> 
> I was finishing up a ride at Lewis River WA. There are a couple of amazing swimming holes that attract the ladies. I'm enjoying a post ride beer when 2 attractive girls walk out of the trail head that had been swimming. The absolutely gorgeous one starts chatting me up on camping spots & stuff and wilithout missing a beat steps into the woodsline and disrobes. She stares right at me with a big smile as she changes right in front of me and continues the conversation. I'm sure she was toying with me and I'm ok with that.


I'm thinking this post belongs in the Penthouse forum.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Curveball said:


> I'm thinking this post belongs in the Penthouse forum.


Haha!
I wish I could add a few more paragraphs that would make it Penthouse worthy.
...and then they hopped in their car and drove out of my life forever. Well it started off good.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

A photo of said neighborhood/trailhead where the incident occurred may be helpful.



sXeXBMXer said:


> first off...I am pretty liberal on most topics. Grew up in the punk rock/metal world, so I have seen my fair share of what most would consider "indecent craziness", and my definition is pretty open for what will offend me but I still think you need to be discrete when it comes to things like this.
> 
> Because of respect. Respect for other people. Respect for the world around you.
> 
> ...


Grew up in the same era, experienced many of the same things and agree that much of what is wrong with society is the belief that what they believe matters over rules that of anyone else. The problem that has grown out of control is the belief that what matters to them SHOULD matter to someone else and thus the forcing of their agenda on others is RIGHT and JUST. There is a fine line between the "I" and "WE" thought process, and unfortunately the line is tested and trampled on everyday.

Example: Simply because everyone (we) believes that Pitbulls are the next coming of the Anti-Christ, only in dog form, they are therefore all evil. That is called group think, which is perpetuated by by the media and those with an agenda (for whatever reason) against said dog breed. When looking at it truly, reading between the lines, etc. you will find that there is nothing wrong with that particular breed and it is nothing more than the "window licker" humans behind them that have trained them to do things bad and then that gives the otherside of the house the cannon fodder to continue to perpetuate the image. Same things goes for cops, lawyers, used care salesmen, mexicans, blacks, etc. basically anyone/thing that has received a bad wrap for whatever reason.

Expound on that by the fact that now we have a sounding board (social media) where anyone and everyone can make their opinion heard and simply based on the number of followers they posses they can get traction for said idea. No longer is there a logical thought process around things, people do not look at items with a constructive criticism eye or have a cause and causality thought process. No, now it is what matters to them should matter to everyone else and if they don't get enough traction well all they have to do is find someone that has the traction (followers) to perpetuate it for them. Another good example is the Parkland School shooting, the kids that have not experience and/or training with firearms and making the calls on firearms policy, yet when it came to "their privacy" with the school district making it mandatory for clear backpacks, well suddenly that was against their civil liberties. Yet, they know a whole f#$%ton of ZERO about firearms and yet they are pushing their agenda on others and that is ok?!

Anyways, this has turned into another internet forum political debate. Was the OP in the wrong, well the whole lot of us know exactly ZERO about the actual situation that happened other than what was written by the OP (remember truth is in the eye of the beholder... and all that jazz). None of us were there to experience, witness or participate in the situation so all we are adding is conjecture and "related" experiences. My opinion from what the OP said he did..... He did nothing wrong, was not exposing himself in any way and may have simply took the tone of the complainers voice incorrectly. IF the complainer was truly being a douche about it, then my suggestion would be to him to find his proctologist and have the surgery to remove said stick/head/gerbal/etc. removed and grow a pair.


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## tjchad (Aug 15, 2009)

Back in the day we used to change out of our wetsuits right in the parking lot (under a towel) and nobody thought anything of it... hell, I've gone straight into Vons wearing just my towel and Flojos to grab a case of post surfing beer... nobody ever said a damn thing. Glad the towel stayed on though!


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

tjchad said:


> Back in the day we used to change out of our wetsuits right in the parking lot (under a towel) and nobody thought anything of it... hell, I've gone straight into Vons wearing just my towel and Flojos to grab a case of post surfing beer... nobody ever said a damn thing. Glad the towel stayed on though!


Gotta know your audience. That was fine in a liquor store frequented by surfers. I don't expect you'd be as welcomed showing up to church like that. As mentioned above, was it a trail head or a neighborhood? I don't want dudes changing in front of my house, and I wouldn't do that if I was parked in view of someone's house. At a trail head frequented only by bikers and overnight hikers accustomed to dropping hiney in the woods? Not a problem.


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## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

Joules said:


> Counter argument: if there was a cop around and the guy complained to him, you'd be on a sex offender registry by now.


Counter argument: I work in law enforcement and if he's not exposing himself and/or acting in a lewd and lascivious manner, this is completely untrue.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

No one wants to see your junk. Look around, if there are people there wait a minute until the coast is clear. Or learn how to change your bottoms in your car. 
And stop walking around with only bib shorts on. If you don't understand why then look in a mirror at your white and skinny cycling chest.
That being said after a race I can look away for a minute while someone changes, but I am a cyclist. Joe public doesn't understand this.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Vespasianus said:


> First, are you a girl or a guy? Guy, sex offender. Girl, its OK.


What about a woman who identifies as a man? Or a man who identifies as a woman? And what about women, who used to be men, who used to be women? And what if, as in the case of Senator Warren, you are a Caucasian woman who identifies as a Native American? Gets confusing doesn't it.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

endo_alley said:


> What about a woman who identifies as a man? Or a man who identifies as a woman? And what about women, who used to be men, who used to be women? And what if, as in the case of Senator Warren, you are a Caucasian woman who identifies as a Native American? Gets confusing doesn't it.


not really...

no one should get naked, or put themselves in a situation where they would be perceived to be naked in public, at any time. Not confusing at all.

Freaking respect and common sense....WTF happened to it?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

What about wtf cares? Is this really a problem?


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

I towel change all the time, many places, never been a problem, never a word said.
I was raised without shame


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

sXeXBMXer said:


> not really...
> 
> no one should get naked, or put themselves in a situation where they would be perceived to be naked in public, at any time. Not confusing at all.
> 
> Freaking respect and common sense....WTF happened to it?


I understand your sentiment. But is it a sex crime? Are the women who go to the Oskar Awards sex criminals? They are in public wearing much less than a towel over their bodies. Or a woman on a beach in a string bikini. Is that a sex crime? Just looking for consistency.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Meanwhile in Europe&#8230;


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I changed at the trailhead parking lot today. Radical eh? Yolo!


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Yep one of these.

Job done.

https://www.ripcurl.co.nz/mens/equipment/towels/down-south-hooded-towel.html


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

chazpat said:


> Meanwhile in Europe&#8230;
> 
> View attachment 1198131


Are these transgender compliant?


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

I'd play it safe, specially if the trailhead is at a neighborhood or where houses or lots of kids are around--you just never know what people may be thinking and rather not put yourself in a bad position. When I can't go home to change, I do it inside my truck using towels at the trailhead and park away from people.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

endo_alley said:


> I understand your sentiment. But is it a sex crime? Are the women who go to the Oskar Awards sex criminals? They are in public wearing much less than a towel over their bodies. Or a woman on a beach in a string bikini. Is that a sex crime? Just looking for consistency.


Well, for one, at the beach you would expect there to be bikinis, banana hammocks etc. Does that fall into my respect comment? It should...but again, the PLACE here...the beach...is what makes the difference. If these people were in church like that, or at school, or in the "public spaces" of the neighborhood, it would be different.

Celebs are the same thing, in a way. That is expected at the awards ceremonies...whether it should be is another topic (morality), but at that PLACE, it is what you would expect to see. I would NOT expect to see that at the awards banquet for my band program, or at graduation here on a few weeks...sadly I do see it, and that goes back to the lack of respect thing...the idea of self over the group or the situation

I personally don't see changing under a towel as a sex crime, but i can 100% see where if it is done in the WRONG PLACE, that it could be, especially in this day and age. And I actually would not have a problem with it being treated that way as a preventative measure.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I personally don't see changing under a towel as a sex crime, but i can 100% see where if it is done in the WRONG PLACE, that it could be, especially in this day and age. And I actually would not have a problem with it being treated that way as a preventative measure.


That makes me a little sad


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I personally don't see changing under a towel as a sex crime, but i can 100% see where if it is done in the WRONG PLACE, that it could be, especially in this day and age. And I actually would not have a problem with it being treated that way as a preventative measure.


Preventative measure for what...mountain biking?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

WHALENARD said:


> Preventative measure for what...mountain biking?


Changing under towels is the gateway drug for sexual predators.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> That makes me a little sad


That's a tad extreme.

Honestly, never thought about this because I simply don't do it. That's not due to any of the information posted here, I'm just close to my house 95% of the time, so I arrive 90% ready to ride, drive home and done. My furthest trails are 1hour away, my closest trails are anywhere from 10/20min. Extra pair of shorts/t-shirt just in case, I get wet.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Newbie10 said:


> So am I wrong? Or was he just a stuck up prude. don't want to be unpleasant, so should I reconsider this? What does the community say?


No you are fine.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> That's a tad extreme.


That someone could be labeled a sex criminal just for changing their clothes as a "preventative measure"? I think so too.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

rlee said:


> No one wants to see your junk. Look around, if there are people there wait a minute until the coast is clear. Or learn how to change your bottoms in your car.
> And stop walking around with only bib shorts on. If you don't understand why then look in a mirror at your white and skinny cycling chest.
> That being said after a race I can look away for a minute while someone changes, but I am a cyclist. Joe public doesn't understand this.


WTF is so challenging about changing in your car?

Pretty simple checklist here:
Are there people around?

Do they want to see me naked?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

richde said:


> Do they want to see me naked?


If you are changing under a towel and someone doesn't want to see you naked all they have to is stop staring at you. They'd be 100% safe.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

WHALENARD said:


> Preventative measure for what...mountain biking?





J.B. Weld said:


> Changing under towels is the gateway drug for sexual predators.


...preventative for allowing changing under your towel to happen in places it shouldn't. Should have been more clear. Not preventative for sex crimes or mountain biking...sheesh how did you guys extrapolate that from my posts?

I see it like grafitti...you let one person do it; ignore it, and then the next thing you know, there is more. Then the neighborhood starts to look "trashy", and petty crime starts happening; then the next level up....how do I know? I live in that place right now. A place that 20 years ago, was nice...then the grafitti bug happened; then property values dropped; permanent tenants moved out; transient tenants moved in; care for property in general declines when the people that live their have no true ownership of the property; then houses went vacant etc. etc....

so, preventative in that if the people doing it don't feel welcome doing it there, they will make a second decision about doing it and go elsewhere...hopefully in the right place...

as far as at the trailhead? If it is not in a public park, or area like that, then I don't care. Again, I am not offended by the act of doing that..I am offended that people do not . take other peoples feelings and views into consideration...the current "F- you, I will do what I want" mentality is not right. And I will proudly say that I am an old fogey if that is what it makes me, but having repsect for others around you is what I was brought up in. In my world, it was never about what was good for me, but what was good for "everyone"


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

sXeXBMXer said:


> ...preventative for allowing changing under your towel to happen in places it shouldn't. Should have been more clear. Not preventative for sex crimes or mountain biking...sheesh how did you guys extrapolate that from my posts?


I extrapolated it from these 2 sentences-



sXeXBMXer said:


> I personally don't see changing under a towel as a sex crime, but i can 100% see where if it is done in the WRONG PLACE, that it could be, especially in this day and age. And I actually would not have a problem with it being treated that way as a preventative measure.


I don't know how else to read that except that you believe if someone towel changes in the wrong place it would serve them right to be convicted of being a sexual offender as a preventative measure. I guess I thought that sounded a bit absurd, just my opinion though.

Anyway it's all a bit silly because I can't believe there's a towel changing epidemic anywhere except beaches and bike races, and nobody cares there.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> I extrapolated it from these 2 sentences-
> 
> I don't know how else to read that except that you believe if someone towel changes in the wrong place it would serve them right to be convicted of being a sexual offender as a preventative measure. I guess I thought that sounded a bit absurd, just my opinion though.
> 
> Anyway it's all a bit silly because I can't believe there's a towel changing epidemic anywhere except beaches and bike races, and nobody cares there.


Yeah..in hindsight, I think I could have worded that less vitriolic...or organized it better...I think I should have said enforcement of some kind of deterrent should happen...no one will convince me that changing under your towel in a random neighborhood is acceptable

and like you said, it is not really an issue that is that big around here...in fact, I have never seen anyone change outside of the porta potty at our trailheads. Most change in their cars, or elsewhere...maybe in peoples neighborhood? I don't know.


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## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

Heh, did a full wardrobe swap on the side of a rather busy road, full of tourists, in Sedona this weekend. Luckily my vehicle was parked alongside a steep rock wall that covered me from behind, and my front and rear doors open in opposite directions and made for a decent field-expedient changing area. 

Not a total fan of it, but driving back from Sedona to Phoenix after 3 or 4 hours on the trail... well, the chamois wasn't doing my nether regions any favors.

Can't say I've ever bothered for shorter drives post-ride.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

WHALENARD said:


> I was finishing up a ride at Lewis River WA. There are a couple of amazing swimming holes that attract the ladies. I'm enjoying a post ride beer when 2 attractive girls walk out of the trail head that had been swimming. The absolutely gorgeous one starts chatting me up on camping spots & stuff and wilithout missing a beat steps into the woodsline and disrobes. She stares right at me with a big smile as she changes right in front of me and continues the conversation. I'm sure she was toying with me and I'm ok with that.


Then you woke up... 

I could care less what anyone is doing unless your wagging your bits in people's faces who gives a f*ck? North Americans give far too many f*cks to nudity.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Thoreau said:


> Heh, did a full wardrobe swap on the side of a rather busy road, full of tourists, in Sedona this weekend. Luckily my vehicle was parked alongside a steep rock wall that covered me from behind, and my front and rear doors open in opposite directions and made for a decent field-expedient changing area.
> 
> Not a total fan of it, but driving back from Sedona to Phoenix after 3 or 4 hours on the trail... well, the chamois wasn't doing my nether regions any favors.
> 
> Can't say I've ever bothered for shorter drives post-ride.


This is similar to what happens on the East Shore of Lake Tahoe on a daily basis once the weather warms up. Lots of people changing inbetween cars where they are open to the road side and then the lake (with viewers down below). Can't tell you how many times I have driven by and said "so is that person completely... yup, sunshine through the tunnel." Maybe I have become desensitized to the whole thing since I see it often, but those are extreme cases, normally you can find mtb'rs changing at the trailhead regardless. Sometimes its a simple change of shirt or shorts with chamois still on, sometimes its a towel wrapped around the waste. To me it sounds like the same complaint would have happened if the OP was changing in their car and the complainer walked by and peeked in the window. Then everyone is going to start complaining that you have to have tinting of XX%.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Well, for one, at the beach you would expect there to be bikinis, banana hammocks etc. Does that fall into my respect comment? It should...but again, the PLACE here...the beach...is what makes the difference. If these people were in church like that, or at school, or in the "public spaces" of the neighborhood, it would be different.
> 
> Celebs are the same thing, in a way. That is expected at the awards ceremonies...whether it should be is another topic (morality), but at that PLACE, it is what you would expect to see. I would NOT expect to see that at the awards banquet for my band program, or at graduation here on a few weeks...sadly I do see it, and that goes back to the lack of respect thing...the idea of self over the group or the situation
> 
> I personally don't see changing under a towel as a sex crime, but i can 100% see where if it is done in the WRONG PLACE, that it could be, especially in this day and age. And I actually would not have a problem with it being treated that way as a preventative measure.


Public beaches are public places. If you ask for special pleading at a public beach then bike trail heads should probably also get special pleading.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

endo_alley said:


> Public beaches are public places. If you ask for special pleading at a public beach then bike trail heads should probably also get special pleading.


but the thing is...people willingly go there to be a part of that culture. If I don't like what's going on at a public beach, or trailhead, or parking lot, I can leave. If it is happening in front of my house, I can not leave...

I think of it this way....if you are in a club or bar, and my hardcore punk band started playing, and the mosh pit gets out of control, and you don't want to be a part of it, you can leave. The bar is a place where that kind of stuff happens normally....if I brought my punk band, and all of our fans who go crazy in the mosh pit, to your front yard, and we set up and played, and the people started trashing your yard and house, you can't leave. You, like the neighbor referenced in the original post, would not be happy with what was going on...because of WHERE it was happening, and (rightfully) get angry

unless you are into punk and pits...

...and before people miss the metaphor I am using and jump my shyt and say "your example is much more drastic than changing behind a towel"...I KNOW!!! It is a metaphor used to explain the situation....

and like I have also mentioned, it isn't the act of changing behind a towel that I think is so bad...it is where he chose to do it...


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Bad analogy. Big deal about nothing.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

sXeXBMXer said:


> but the thing is...people willingly go there to be a part of that culture. If I don't like what's going on at a public beach, or trailhead, or parking lot, I can leave. If it is happening in front of my house, I can not leave... ...


People often go to the beach for othr reasons than beach culture. A father may wish to take his daughter or son surf fishing . Or a mother may just wish to walk in the sand with her kids. Or go running. Or swimming, paddle boarding, Or a kid may want to go crabbing off a pier. etc.. Shouldn't they deserve the same standard of decency? Mind you, none of this bothers me. But some people take offense at public dress which really is designed to be extremely sexually suggestive.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Couldn’t. Care. Less.

The **** that people get uptight about... 

No offense to those of you who feel differently, but could there possibly be a better textbook example of a first world problem?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Couldn't. Care. Less.
> 
> The **** that people get uptight about...
> 
> No offense to those of you who feel differently, but could there possibly be a better textbook example of a first world problem?


^^^^ dropper versus non; tubed versus tubeless....most of the tech discussion on this forum 

just sayin'


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

sXeXBMXer said:


> ^^^^ dropper versus non; tubed versus tubeless....most of the tech discussion on this forum
> 
> just sayin'


Agreed. And often the source of highly interesting dialogue.

OP's post doesn't bother me right now. But then again, I am currently in a world of hurt at work, with serious issues floating around and the finger (kinda) pointed at me. Plus in the last 3 weeks, 3 separate colleagues in my city have suddenly passed away, and last month, another guy I used to work with for 6 or so years, killed a young girl while driving impaired.

So relatively speaking, someone changing under a towel in the street in front of my house is the least of my worries.

But it's an interesting topic that has generated some interesting comments so all good!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Agreed. And often the source of highly interesting dialogue.
> 
> OP's post doesn't bother me right now. But then again, I am currently in a world of hurt at work, with serious issues floating around and the finger (kinda) pointed at me. Plus in the last 3 weeks, 3 separate colleagues in my city have suddenly passed away, and last month, another guy I used to work with for 6 or so years, killed a young girl while driving impaired.
> 
> ...


yikes!!! I hope things calm down and pan out for ya!


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Couldn't. Care. Less.
> 
> The **** that people get uptight about...
> 
> No offense to those of you who feel differently, but could there possibly be a better textbook example of a first world problem?


No kidding. Ive seen how they dress in the third world by reading National Geographic as a kid. (Er ... looking at the pictures I mean) That dress code certainly wouldn't fly here in the first world. Anyhow, of course this is a pretty silly issue. Since it is not a matter of people walking around all day improperly dressed for polite society and shaking their pots n pans for everyone to gawk at. Just a few seconds behind a towel while changing britches.


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

endo_alley said:


> What about a woman who identifies as a man? Or a man who identifies as a woman? And what about women, who used to be men, who used to be women? And what if, as in the case of Senator Warren, you are a Caucasian woman who identifies as a Native American? Gets confusing doesn't it.


 subject for another thread and another day...


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Thing is ya none of us care. I've been witness to things when we all get together for fat biking and beer that "what happens on the island stays on the island". No one cared except a lot of laughing.

Problem is the "squeaky wheel gets the grease". Used to be a good thing in making things right. But anymore it's been abused to make the most rediculous things a crime. Taking a leak outside, even going on the porch in your boxers to grab your mail. Just like the entire stupidity of breastfeeding in public (not sure the legal side of it but the discrimination against it is fraking rediculous).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Couldn't. Care. Less.
> 
> The **** that people get uptight about...
> 
> No offense to those of you who feel differently, but could there possibly be a better textbook example of a first world problem?


And such is the world we live in these days. While as entertaining as it is to read through this thread, it echoes a trend that saddens me. One little wrinkle of the least significance, and into the street to scream at the sky as we run off looking for a safe room. I see this as a migration from a culture of "to each his own" to "if I don't like it, NOBODY is allowed to like it". The saddening part? Before long, these attitudes will be in complete control of running our country.

Oh well... back to riding my bike!


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

...


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