# STOP THAT !



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

*A Shimano Ebike expert* says many problems are water related.
Stop washing your Ebike.
With all the wires it opens ways for water to get in.
He has been renting many 7000, 8000 and he just got some new models.
I guess other brands also use wires.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

♫ Stop that - Jerky Boys Sol Rosenberg Sounds


MP3 from ♯ Jerky Boys Sol Rosenberg Sounds.




www.101soundboards.com


----------



## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

I enjoy riding my bike in the winter so washing will happen, but I do try to limit the amount of water being used around the motor and battery.


----------



## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Tell that expert to seal the motor better


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I rarely wash my bikes (any bike, e- or non-e) even tho I live in the PNW aka The Mud Zone.
When done riding, I roll the bike into the garage where it will dry.
Whenever I want a bike to be "clean," I roll it out to the driveway and knock off the dried chunks of mud.
Then lube the drivetrain.
Then ride it again.
Occasionally I degrease the drivetrain properly -- thoroughly cleaning the cassette, chainring, der pulleys, mech.
I don't use water for drivetrain cleaning; rather I employ petroeum based products.
The drivetrain requires constant attention; shiny surfaces are merely cosmetic and can be left dirty.
My bikes typically look like crap but function impeccably.
Point being: bikes & water don't go together (unless I'm riding through water, which happens a lot).
=sParty


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sparticus said:


> My bikes typically look like crap but function impeccably.
> =sParty


My bikes typically look clean & shiny and also function impeccably. I wash them with soap and water often.

I agree with dundundata, Shimano should seal their stuff better.


----------



## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Sparticus said:


> I rarely wash my bikes (any bike, e- or non-e) even tho I live in the PNW aka The Mud Zone.
> When done riding, I roll the bike into the garage where it will dry.
> Whenever I want a bike to be "clean," I roll it out to the driveway and knock off the dried chunks of mud.
> Then lube the drivetrain.
> ...


This.

Checking chain stretch, cleaning and lubing drivetrain, wiping stantions, wiping the sweating tire sealant from the sidewalls, and oiling pivot points are all my bikes receive after every ride or two. If I want to clean the frame, it's knocking the dry chunks off, maybe a light spray with Simple Green and very light spray of water to wipe and rinse, drying immediately.

This has resulted in years of mostly trouble-free riding with perfectly functioning bikes, and not having to change out a lot of rusty or water damaged components.


----------



## Ridnw/bear (Jul 11, 2005)

I stopped washing my bikes years ago and have found that I only need to lube suspension pivots now and not replace them. Spraying bikes down with water is the worst thing you can do to the parts. Stop that!


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Ridnw/bear said:


> I stopped washing my bikes years ago and have found that I only need to lube suspension pivots now and not replace them. Spraying bikes down with water is the worst thing you can do to the parts. Stop that!


I am glad many confirm my saying. 21 years ago i sold my last car so i pedal about 360 days yearly and with 4 winter months water is bad.
People with more problems are often washers and non washers are generaly more trouble free.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I stopped washing my car years ago, also I never drive in the rain. I just knock the mud chunks off now and then and drive on.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Sparticus said:


> I rarely wash my bikes (any bike, e- or non-e) even tho I live in the PNW aka The Mud Zone.
> When done riding, I roll the bike into the garage where it will dry.
> Whenever I want a bike to be "clean," I roll it out to the driveway and knock off the dried chunks of mud.
> Then lube the drivetrain.
> ...


Same.
I let the stanchion gunk crust up then hit them shoeshine style with a clean terry. Sometimes I'll do something similar with my pivots and hit them with a fine bristled brush. Creak free in the PNW, yo.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Glide the Clyde said:


> a lot of rusty or water damaged components.


I'm not a washer myself (primarily due to laziness and apathy), but I can't think of any components on a decent bike that are going to rust or be 'damaged' by being washed any more than they would be by just riding the bike.
What components on your bike get 'rusty' and 'damaged' by hose water but not from riding wet conditions?

And yeah, Shimano should seal their stuff better if it can't handle a little water.


----------



## Ridnw/bear (Jul 11, 2005)

What components on your bike get 'rusty' and 'damaged' by hose water but not from riding wet conditions?

And yeah, Shimano should seal their stuff better if it can't handle a little water.


Bearings are made of steel. They rust and seize. Why do you think bike manufacturers use waterproof grease? In fact the best grease for pivots is Boat Trailer Grease. Obviously living in the PNW requires I ride in wet conditions. Hosing a bike down will only add to my problems. Water is the enemy for all ebike motors not just Shimano.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Ridnw/bear said:


> Bearings are made of steel. They rust and seize.


Well there's your problem, need to upgrade to ceramic bearings.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Ridnw/bear said:


> Bearings are made of steel. They rust and seize.


How many years do they have to be left sitting after having all the grease blown out of them to rust so much they seize? I've never had any bearing seize in a bike in over 30 years, and I'm notoriously terrible at babying bikes.
Maybe an issue if people use sea water to wash?


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slapheadmofo said:


> How many years do they have to be left sitting after having all the grease blown out of them to rust so much they seize? I've never had any bearing seize in a bike in over 30 years, and I'm notoriously terrible at babying bikes.
> Maybe an issue if people use sea water to wash?


Where do you live, Slap?
=sParty


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Where do you live, Slap?
> =sParty


New England.

I'm a bit lazier these past few years, but did tend to ride year round for most of the last few decades.
Never really shied away from shitty conditions, particularly with my DH bikes, and always just blasted them indiscriminately with a hose when they got overly filthy.


----------



## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> How many years do they have to be left sitting after having all the grease blown out of them to rust so much they seize? I've never had any bearing seize in a bike in over 30 years, and I'm notoriously terrible at babying bikes.
> Maybe an issue if people use sea water to wash?


Here is what a seized bearing can do if not replaced. This was after maybe 9 months of California riding with only light washes after mud rides. And no, that is not supposed to come out of the frame.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

RBoardman said:


> Here is what a seized bearing can do if not replaced. This was after maybe 9 months of California riding with only light washes after mud rides. And no, that is not supposed to come out of the frame.


I guess I'm wondering how long you have to leave it sitting around for it to seize. 
It's seems that it wouldn't be possible for something that's ridden often. I know I treat my bikes like crap, always put them away wet and dirty, never really clean them, do the bare minimum of maintenance (or less) and I think I've seen one seized bearing in my life on a bike that was put away a mess after a messy season and then sat all winter.


----------



## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> I guess I'm wondering how long you have to leave it sitting around for it to seize.
> It's seems that it wouldn't be possible for something that's ridden often. I know I treat my bikes like crap, always put them away wet and dirty, never really clean them, do the bare minimum of maintenance (or less) and I think I've seen one seized bearing in my life on a bike that was put away a mess after a messy season and then sat all winter.


I don't know, I rode that bike at least 3 times a week. And even a California winter only rains twice a week at most.


----------



## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Even Santa Cruz states as their official policy to not wash your bike.. in house testing has proven, the less you wash the longer it lasts!


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

You might think that improving the sealing makes the bike more mechanic-friendly, but it's the oppoosite. Would you like to replace o-rings and gaskets? Un-do all the layers of protective covers? 

It's an electronic system. Even if it's sealed, there's still humidity in the air inside that condenses in the cold. Maybe potting for the motor, battery, and other electronics? This adds cost and weight, plus makes it even less repair-friendly.

As an example, in the effort to become more water-resistant, cell phones have gone through steps of removing external ports, fasteners, etc. and other forms of easy access. There's controversy regarding the "right-to-repair" concerning them.

The higher water ingress ratings are very hard to achieve without sacrifice/compromise. Some probably are familiar with IP65 or maybe even IP67 ratings. The higher the last digit is, the better its resistance to water. Shimano says their waterproofing is only suitable for riding out in the rain, and warn against any sort of immersion. They don't list a rating.

Anyways, just typical crap here where idiots demand the impossible, for better sealing without any compromise. Performance + "army-proofing" doesn't mix that well, esp at reasonable prices and weight.

I don't wash my bike. I don't bring it into living space. It has its own parking space that is protected from the elements. I do try to do what's best for the bike. I don't even bother with plucking mud off. It comes off from just hitting bumps after it dries. If not, it's a layer of protection.


----------



## Ridnw/bear (Jul 11, 2005)

Corrosion in bearings or ebike motors starts when water is introduced to a system and not purged. It doesn't necessarily need to sit static for it to corrode. When bearings in pivots or hubs or motors corrode, they become pitted and then will rotate roughly if not seize. I have had many bearings seize on me. I usually can break them free and get them to rotate enough to continue to use if purged with fresh grease.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

seamarsh said:


> Even Santa Cruz states as their official policy to not wash your bike.. in house testing has proven, the less you wash the longer it lasts!


You mean this?



> *Q:* I'm lazy and lack motivation, what can I do to prolong bearing life?
> *A: *Stop washing your bike so much. We did some experiments with bikes that were washed a lot but ridden infrequently, bikes that were ridden a lot but washed infrequently, and bikes that were both washed and ridden a lot. Guess what? Your bike hates only being washed and not being ridden. This test group had the worst results. They became creaky and not much fun to be around, much like the people who own bikes like that. Don't get all angry (you know who you are), you can still wash your bike from time to time - and there are those times where it has to be done after every ride. Everything needs more attention during those times. BUT, maybe you should examine your priorities. It's a mountain bike. You can get dirt on it. It's OK.


I think they're mostly joking but they do mention it's ok to wash their bikes.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> I don't wash my bike. I don't bring it into living space. It has its own parking space that is protected from the elements. I do try to do what's best for the bike. I don't even bother with plucking mud off. It comes off from just hitting bumps after it dries. If not, it's a layer of protection.


Yes, mud dirt & grit is a great layer of protection for chains, pulleys, bearings etc. Instead of washing with water I hose mine down with a thick layer of gritty mud


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> Yes, mud dirt & grit is a great layer of protection for chains, pulleys, bearings etc. Instead of washing with water I hose mine down with a thick layer of gritty mud


Regarding chains, crap unless forced out from pressure from pedaling forces being carried through.

The issue I see is lube sticking to what's being forced out rather than staying where it needs to be in the chain. Quality chains resist wear from grit--lab tests that spray water and sand/dirt at chains to test for wear seem to suggest that the chains run thousands of miles before becoming stretched, just like ones kept clean.

Grit wears down unsealed stuff, which is more commonly found on road-oriented bikes (inc non-contact seals). Crud on the outside of sealed bearings is fine.

It's hard to find a picture of a bike covered with _dried_ mud. It crumbles off when ridden. My bike's just got a natural dusty "patina" and shiny stanchions. The paint would be in better shape when it does get cleaned (for inspection/maintenance).


----------



## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Well, for most rides, I'll spritz on some Griots detailing spray and wipe the H-Bike down with a microfiber towel. But there will be the rare ride where some chunks of mud and dirt will be flying....

And for that, she gets a bath, with a water hose and a bucket of soapy sudsy water.

The trick is to just use the hose nozzle barely cracked open, spritzing the water out just like that Griots Spray bottle. Followed by a good wipe down with my favorite microfiber towels and a relubing of the chain and the frame pivot points. 

Use a garden hose on full, direct stream and of course, you are asking for trouble. Just common sense stuff.

2016 Haibike Full FatSix, 12,600 miles...


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

MikeTowpathTraveler said:


> Well, for most rides, I'll spritz on some Griots detailing spray and wipe the H-Bike down with a microfiber towel. But there will be the rare ride where some chunks of mud and dirt will be flying....
> 
> And for that, she gets a bath, with a water hose and a bucket of soapy sudsy water.
> 
> ...


Never detailed a bike, never used soap on a bike, never wiped down anything besides stanchions and chain after lubing (bikes of my own - if I build one for someone, I usually give it a good cleaning before handing it over).
I have sprayed bikes down with a hose quite a number of times, full stream with a very slight conscious effort not to aim it directly at suspension seals, but other than that, meh.

No problems to speak of.

1991-present, many bikes, countless miles.


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

MikeTowpathTraveler said:


> Well, for most rides, I'll spritz on some Griots detailing spray and wipe the H-Bike down with a microfiber towel. But there will be the rare ride where some chunks of mud and dirt will be flying....
> 
> And for that, she gets a bath, with a water hose and a bucket of soapy sudsy water.
> 
> ...


Not many motors reach that. It takes many specialized and many shimano to get close.
What is your miracle motor/system?


----------



## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

33red said:


> Not many motors reach that. It takes many specialized and many shimano to get close.
> What is your miracle motor/system?


I'd also be curious how many batteries he went though in over 12k miles. My friend is around 2500 miles currently and his battery health seems to be a bit reduced from when it was new.


----------



## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

I power wash mine literally every ride. No issues


----------



## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

RBoardman said:


> Here is what a seized bearing can do if not replaced. This was after maybe 9 months of California riding with only light washes after mud rides. And no, that is not supposed to come out of the frame.
> View attachment 1925981


Loc-tite Green can fix that puppy right up.


----------



## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I avoid riding in wet conditions, and might wash my bike once a year. Clean and lube the chain before every ride though. Been doing it this way for over 30 years with few problems.


----------



## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

l use a garden hose with a spray attachment and bike cleaning spray to clean my E8000 equipped Kona ebike, but am careful not to direct the spray at the motor, battery or bearings.

l also turned down the water pressure at the tap, because even with a garden hose the spray can be quite powerful.

So far l've had no issues with the bike.


----------



## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I can’t stand riding a dirty bike, idk I was the same way with dirt bikes, maybe just a physiological thing, but feels good to start ride on clean. JMO


----------

