# What to do with kids that want to race downhill...



## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

I've been riding downhill with my 9 year old son for about two years. We've got a new build project underway that is the culmination of two years of experimenting trying to find and/or build bikes that will work for him. Our experiment started with attempts to ride our XC bikes down the intermediate trails at Snowshoe. (Mine with the seat still jacked up!). In the rain. It wasn't pretty.

If there is interest...I'll put some energy into discussing what we've learned going from rentals, to his own Stinky 24, to a small SX Trail, to this project. Any guesses!?

(2015 Edit - its a Demo 8 XS. At this point it had 24" wheels. Lot's of hindsight awareness three years later. Feel free to ask away


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## the_walrus (Jun 29, 2010)

how was the stinky? I've got a line on a used 2009 in good condition for my 9 year old to ride downhill here in northern utah. Is the weight an issue on that thing?


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

The Stinky 24 was a good bike for giving things a try. It had all the basics that you need to get a good feel for riding at a bike park, or any place with lift assist or shuttles to get you to the top. It is not a good fit for places with lots of pedaling uphill. We went from the Stinky to the SX Trail when he progressed to the point where his speed exceeded the ability of the 100mm dirt jump fork to provide a manageable ride. I ran low psi to keep the ride as smooth as possible. But when he got to the point I had to start ramping Psi up to keep him from pinch flatting I knew it was time for a change. The spring rate is very high for a small rider.


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

With a real-deal DH bike his skills are progressing very fast. On this new XS Demo, there are trail types and conditions that he goes as fast as I do. I ride competitively in CAT2 age 40-49. I feel sure that 80 pound kids are able to fully leverage the advantages of a proper DH frame geometry and tuned suspension.


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## Jim Mac (Jun 29, 2004)

A lot of good Kids DH bike build info here: 
Kids DH bike


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

My 7 year old is really stoked about DH riding, but he’s only ever really done it at speed (paced him at 27.5MPH verified by my Garmin GPS) on loose gravelly fireroads, I believe the grade at the fastest point was around 23%. He’s riding a hardtail 20" setup (I built it up for him) so he can learn early on about shifting his weight fore/aft to get the weight distribution correct for the conditions, and eventually we’ll get him on a full-suspension setup. He’s got all the necessary gear (shin, elbow, wrist, and full-face helmet) for fireroads, but I’m considering getting him some full-body (front and back of torso as well as thigh/hip) protection. He’s just too stoked to let ’er rip down the hills. I’m trying to gradually get him to get the downhill speed up, but I think I may be slowing him down a bit—parental paranoia perhaps. We’ve been working on rocky/loose/boulder-riddled singletrack descents as well, and I am happy that he is apprehensive (read: using his brain) in letting off the brakes so soon. Bike is capable of so much more, and I am in no hurry to rush him to a hospital visit.


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## Jim Mac (Jun 29, 2004)

I personally found that racing BMX helped my almost 6 year old with downhill. He has learned good position including standing over obstacles at speed and is now beginning to pump a bit to keep momentum. He actually got air last night on the 1st jump off the start hill, but on the 2nd run he did the same and blew off his pedals. No crash though!


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> My 7 year old is really stoked about DH riding... but I'm considering getting him some full-body (front and back of torso as well as thigh/hip) protection.


Finding good gear for little folks is tough. One of the hardest things is good elbow/forearm guards. My 9 year old son is 83 pounds and about 57" tall. I do have one of the Troy Lee Youth Upper Body Protection - 7855 and it keeps the elbow pads in position nicely. So that product has a couple advantages in that it provides chest, shoulder and back protection along with elbow and forearms and it keeps all of the pads in the right places so they stay put when needed. It is a bit hot when temps climb in to the 80's. Alternative options for chest and shoulder are the roost guards made for MX riding - those are available in small sizes and don't seem to heat him up as much.

For knees: I have my son in TLD 5450 for knee/shin protection. I have the upper elastic band sewn with a bit of slack taken out - otherwise they don't work well for folks whose thighs just above the knee are still small.


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

Jim Mac said:


> A lot of good Kids DH bike build info here:
> Kids DH bike


I started contributing on that thread - good contribution from folks on that one


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

*This is what my 9 year old is riding this season...*

I have to believe I can get 3 good years or more out of this bike, and will plan to upgrade to 26" wheels next year.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

My 9 year old has been bitten by the downhill bug. He desperately wants to get a full DH bike, but with having gotten him a Santa Cruz Nickel (which is set up now with 140mm front and rear) and a hardtail a few months ago, I told him he is going to have to wait a year. The Nickel is working surprising well with him really enjoying gypsy and livewire at Northstar.

I on the other hand went out and bought a used Norco because I couldn't take the pounding riding on my trail bike.


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

*Update on this XS Demo Project*

Hi Folks, 
I have been reviewing my game plan for 2015 to support my 11yo son's riding & racing, and though I would chime back in on this thread. The tentative plan is to go in to 'year 3' on his XS Demo. He is about 95 pounds, a bit under 5' tall, and I still consider him a 'kid' even though I know he'll be faster than I am this year.

2014 saw a couple key changes: 1) we found a new product you might want to know about - 155mm cranks from Canfield Brothers. Frankly, that shorter crank was the missing piece in our 'downsizing' efforts. 2) Now on the 26" wheels, we moved him to DH casing tires because single ply EXO Maxxis DHF 3c's could not keep at an optimal psi (for traction). If your kid is riding fast - don't bother trying to save weight with single plys - it probably is not the best choice.

By the end of 2014, he was blowing through rear travel on his Van RC that I had the folks at Avalanche tune for his riding weight and capability in 2013. The difference between 9yo at 85lbs. and a 10yo at 93lbs. was surprising. So for 2015 we are moving to a Cane Creek Double Barrel and that should work fine. See you around!


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

So I'll provide some pics of the current build. I recommend parents keep their eye open for the 26" DH bikes coming on the used market - there might be some good buys out there.

This will end up being Ben's 2015 bike - which makes his third year on it. He is 11 now, about 5' tall and a bit over 100 pounds now. I'm not expecting him to grow out of it this year. 

Key components that make it 'work' for a little rider:
1) the XS Demo geometry gives confidence at speed and when it's steep , but has great stand over, reach, and stack.
2) custom tuned suspension for the 85 - 100 lbs size/weight range
3) Canfield negative stem to keep the bars low
4) Canfield 155mm cranks
5) Stans Flow lightweight rims to keep rotating weight low as possible without the high cost of carbon.

Really looking forward to Ben hammering down some trails on this. In 2015 we are going to Cane Creek for rear shock, and I'll be putting in a Charger damper to replace the custom tuned damper from his fork. He has outgrown the suspension we had tuned for him at 85 pounds.


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

P.S. If anyone is following this topic and wants our Avalanche tuned Van RC 9.5x3 let me know. Well give it away for the cost of shipping.


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## lions (Nov 17, 2015)

Fantastic thanks for the inspiration, my son wants to switch from Bmx to free ride mountain biking and we are very interested in your setup. He just turned 10 is about 4.10 we were looking at the kids dh bikes but for the price we would like the bike to last at least 3 years. Searching around we found this post and were inspired to try the same route. The problem is finding a frame in XS size! Google is your friend but haven't found what we think we need. Some have suggested to go to the 27.5 wheel that frame xs would handle it. Curious on your thoughts and thanks again for sharing.


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

lions said:


> ...The problem is finding a frame in XS size! Google is your friend but haven't found what we think we need. Some have suggested to go to the 27.5 wheel that frame xs would handle it. Curious on your thoughts and thanks again for sharing.


Hey there, glad to get you two stoked up! I'm more than happy to share what I've learned and love to see other dads and little dh'ers getting involved. Couple things to consider related to your question: 1) The current version of the Demo 8 has different geometry and doesn't use an 'XS' size; you'll have to compare the dimensions. 2) The XS Demo 8 designed for 26" wheels will not accommodate 27.5 in wheel on the rear. I haven't personally tried it, but don't recommend experimenting with that.

I am in discussion with a friend of mine on the same subject - he's looking at options. We evaluated the Santa Cruz V10 26" as an option and realized one of the dimensions on that bike is substantially larger than the XS Demo. That is - the BB to seat clamp. This is a very important measurement for riders with short legs and height <5'...probably 5'3". So, in addition to the typical measurements you might evaluate like Stack, Reach, Standover...also take measurements to determine the distance from pedals to seat. This is more important than Standover.

Also - my son has outgrown his bike, and I will be selling it over the next few months sometime. It was just what he needed, but he is growing like a weed.


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

*Year 3 on a 2012 Demo 8*

This is what year three on the Demo 8 looks looked like for my son. He really had grown in to it this year. He was growing fast this year and turned 12 at the tail end of the season. So in these pics he's grown from 5'0" to about 5'3". He is about 115ish now, so he's on the big side of the spectrum for 11-12.


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## lions (Nov 17, 2015)

oldranger said:


> Hey there, glad to get you two stoked up! I'm more than happy to share what I've learned and love to see other dads and little dh'ers getting involved. Couple things to consider related to your question: 1) The current version of the Demo 8 has different geometry and doesn't use an 'XS' size; you'll have to compare the dimensions.
> 
> Thanks again for the info and awesome work on the bike build. That is the dilemma finding the geometry that will work. I'll use the sizes from your current bike and see what I can find. Keep us posted I am pretty sure that a lot of parents are in the same boat.


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## bigstudent (Jan 14, 2011)

oldranger said:


> This is what year three on the Demo 8 looks looked like for my son. He really had grown in to it this year. He was growing fast this year and turned 12 at the tail end of the season. So in these pics he's grown from 5'0" to about 5'3". He is about 115ish now, so he's on the big side of the spectrum for 11-12.


Thanks for sharing your DH journey with as oldranger. We did find your post on other forum very helpful, and this info will help as with sizing future bike for our son. Many thanks and keep the thread going please.


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## oldranger (Apr 14, 2011)

I've started some blogs about this topic and the experience I had putting together bikes for my son between the ages of 8 and 12. I've got a few posts out there on this Demo 8, a Specialized SX Trail I put together before that, and some opinion on the Kona Stinky 24 as well. Plus some things I'll work on documented related to specific component choices like brakes, stems, cranks.

I know, these days there are some little DH bikes making their way in to limited production - but I think a really good option for little shredders out there will be the vast number of used 26" wheeled frames and bikes that are available. They'll just take a bit of fine tuning - that's all.

Kids DH Bike: XS Specialized Demo 8


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Simply awesome! Thanks for the info and inspiration, your little guy looks like a pro!


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