# Most Difficult, Technical, Uber GNAR DH trail you've ever heard of/ridden



## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

Where is it, and why is it so gnar? (if it's a secret, don't tell where it is)
Tell your story, post pictures.


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## jeng (Aug 12, 2005)

All of em are in Vancouver and my story is too long to type.

But I guess my Cali story is from Santa Barbara down Tunnel when I blew my shock out half way down the trail.


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## LeeL (Jan 12, 2004)

RADgbarbar trail called "C-Line" in Whissslur - so leet dooo999ddddzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


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## EDizzleVR6 (Oct 4, 2007)

the toughest trail that i finally conquered without any bails was boondocks at n* took me forever to figure out how to get in between that rock crevasse


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## chup29 (Nov 28, 2006)

trying to go race pace on the canadian open course in whistler in the rain - didnt go so good.... turns out roots really are as slick as they say...


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## bcbud (Jun 1, 2009)

Ride Don't Slide.....


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

jeng said:


> All of em are in Vancouver and my story is too long to type.
> 
> But I guess my Cali story is from Santa Barbara down Tunnel when I blew my shock out half way down the trail.


Tunnel is tame compared to some other trails in the Socal vicinity :'(


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## k-stein (Jan 5, 2005)

Dalco 112'er on lago di garda.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

AlexJK said:


> Where is it, and why is it so gnar? (if it's a secret, don't tell where it is)
> Tell your story.


The one you asked about on the central coast. I've ridden a lot of steep and gnarly stuff. Things that most people wouldn't even consider a trail. Despite all that, nothing ever truly prepares you for it.


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

Most gnar trail I've seen is called "oops I forgot the name" also on the central coast a ways north of santa Barbara, be interested to hear how that one compares.

I'd imagine it still pales in comparison to some of the stuff in Utah, like redbull rampage status.

Sorry didn't realize the name of the trail was taboo as well, though I was good with just leaving out location.


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## verticult (Jan 18, 2005)

there is some stuff at Bootleg that is not only steep and technical, if you fall is like landing in a box of saw blades.


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## jpculp (Jul 11, 2009)

we have a tone of gnar trails on the east coast. They are always wet and its a rockgarden down the whole thing.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Goats Gully in the pouring rain.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Goats Gully was the first that sprang to mind...


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## BWVDubya (Nov 19, 2007)

EDizzleVR6 said:


> the toughest trail that i finally conquered without any bails was boondocks at n* took me forever to figure out how to get in between that rock crevasse


Man, that was my favorite trail at N*. I had a blast going down that and learning along the way.


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

Flystagg said:


> Most gnar trail I've seen is called **** also on the central coast a ways north of santa Barbara, be interested to hear how that one compares.
> 
> I'd imagine it still pales in comparison to some of the stuff in Utah, like redbull rampage status.


 SHHHH!!!


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## oakhills (Mar 30, 2004)

I'll second Jeng with Tunnel trail in Santa Barbara, but this was back in 1992
with 2.5" travel up front and no suspension in the back....It was a blast then
as I am sure it is now...


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## Ithnu (Feb 16, 2007)

verticult said:


> there is some stuff at Bootleg that is not only steep and technical, if you fall is like landing in a box of saw blades.


Very true. I haven't been there in 2 years and I wonder how it would seem to me now. But there were two trails I didn't want anything to do with then, Poopshoot and Ginger if I remember correctly.

There's one here in CO that some of the local pros get sketched out on. "We should never have built that trail" was one comment I heard riding up in the shuttle truck.


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## Corvette (Nov 20, 2005)

Champery in mud. Brutal is an understatement.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Tunnel is tame compared to some other trails in the Socal vicinity :'(


I agree...just keep ur speed on Tunnel;......ridden on a rigid


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Flystagg said:


> Most gnar trail I've seen is in the central coast of Cali a ways north of santa Barbara, be interested to hear how that one compares.
> 
> I'd imagine it still pales in comparison to some of the stuff in Utah, like redbull rampage status.


please change name....


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> please change name....


The first rule about the trail is you don't talk about the trail.
The second rule about the trail is you don't talk about the trail.





Doesn't even capture half of the stuff on there.


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

There were some steep drop laden trails in Humboldt that were pretty gnarly. Nothing quite like not being able to control your speed, only having the option of "scary fast" and then hitting VERY slick and long off camber root sections. Ahhhh brings back good memories.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

Windrock, just outside of Knoxville, TN is nationally reknowned for being not easy.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

jpculp said:


> we have a tone of gnar trails on the east coast. They are always wet and its a rockgarden down the whole thing.


Sure you do...


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

Flystagg said:


> Most gnar trail I've seen is called **** also on the central coast a ways north of santa Barbara, be interested to hear how that one compares.
> 
> I'd imagine it still pales in comparison to some of the stuff in Utah, like redbull rampage status.


What is wrong with you people...?


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## NAYR751 (Apr 22, 2006)

Katana said:


> I'll second Jeng with Tunnel trail in Santa Barbara, but this was back in 1992
> with 2.5" travel up front and no suspension in the back....It was a blast then
> as I am sure it is now...


Too bad it's closed now due to the fire....


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## Demodude (Jan 27, 2007)

first trip and first run at Bootleg and the shuttle driver gave us wierd directions to the trails and had us go down Ginger. Two of us got injured walking the trail. Rolled my ankle. We were all saying 'holy s--- if this is the easiest trail here we're f-----ed". There was horrible consequences for falling.... like death.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Gemini2k05 said:


> What is wrong with you people...?


If you're gonna complain about a post with the trail name in it, it makes a lot of sense to remove the trail name from the quote you use as well....'cause now it's in TWO places thanks to your post.

:thumbsup:


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## Prettym1k3 (Oct 11, 2005)

Trail in Ashland, OR. Maybe I've ridden worse, and maybe I just wasn't ready for how steep/gnarly is got, but 15 seconds in I dumped my bike and slid down the trail for about 10 feet. Basically braked into everything. I'm sure if I knew the trail better I'd have been fine, but man... that was sketchy.


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Test of Metal, wet, at Diablo.


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

Vitranc, Krajnska Gore, Slovenia

European Dh Championships


Was pretty damn insane for me... Whistler was just fun


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## captain spaulding (May 7, 2006)

thefriar said:


> Test of Metal, wet, at Diablo.


really?

Goat's Gully wet is prob the trickiest, but not huge consequences if you fall(as long as you don't fall down the side of the trail)..


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## Endomaniac (Jan 6, 2004)

At my local trail system, Windrock, in Oliver Springs TN. We have one trail called Southern Rocks. It’s about a mile long and drops around a thousand feet in that mile. I’d say your tires touch dirt for about 500’ of that mile, the rest of the time you’re dropping from boulder to boulder. If you where unknowingly dropped in the middle of the trail you would swear it was a dry creek bed and no line existed. I only know of a few people that can clean it.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

Endomaniac said:


> At my local trail system, Windrock, in Oliver Springs TN. We have one trail called Southern Rocks. It's about a mile long and drops around a thousand feet in that mile. I'd say your tires touch dirt for about 500' of that mile, the rest of the time you're dropping from boulder to boulder. If you where unknowingly dropped in the middle of the trail you would swear it was a dry creek bed and no line existed. I only know of a few people that can clean it.


Man I gotta get out there sometime. Is it closed for the winter?


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## blender (Oct 28, 2005)

i'll put another vote in for the aforementioned trail in central california, the one that is featured in Chainsmoke 2 (which does that gnar absolutely NO justice)

i "walked" the trail, just to get an idea of what the features are like.. and let me just say that i damn near broke myself off just climbing down some of those rocks.. 

made me sick to my stomach just thinking about riding some of those lines.
from what i hear, a number of pros have walked away from that trail refusing to ride it.


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

Chainsmoke at mammoth is pretty gnarly.


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## lalocotequinta (Mar 28, 2007)

Highland's Threshold, wet.


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## Topgun514 (Feb 2, 2008)

Redbull and town down. And unless your a local who rides with me or dave then you will have no clue where it is located in Utah


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

another vote for the mystery trail in central CA. i only walked it and it was nuts. it's on my list of things that I need to conquer though.

bootleg is also full of ridiculous stuff. not only is it chunky, it's steep, it's VERY sharp to fall on, and there's a disproportionate amount of cliffs. hell, the HaB to get to the top has a 30 ft drop off to one side at one point.

chainsmoke in mammoth is tricky, but only parts of it are. it's a hardish part, then flowy, the hardish, then flowy, then retarded, then flowy, and it's done. the other trails mentioned can be as gnarly as the hard parts of chainsmoke, but they never let up.


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

Prettym1k3 said:


> Trail in Ashland, OR. Maybe I've ridden worse, and maybe I just wasn't ready for how steep/gnarly is got, but 15 seconds in I dumped my bike and slid down the trail for about 10 feet. Basically braked into everything. I'm sure if I knew the trail better I'd have been fine, but man... that was sketchy.


Ahhhh yes. I remember it. Surfing down a mountain of powdery dirt only to come across the odd root, tree, and dropoff. Then there were those rock gardens right around the middle.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

his dudeness said:


> Ahhhh yes. I remember it. Surfing down a mountain of powdery dirt only to come across the odd root, tree, and dropoff. Then there were those rock gardens right around the middle.


I thought it rained all the time in Oregon


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## mtnryder56 (Sep 13, 2008)

The trails on Fromme and Seymour in W. Van are all super tech and very Gnar. One of the best places to get really good at Mtn Biking really fast. 

That being said, the trail that just caused me to stand with my jaw open and say "F-U-C-K " is the trail up in Forest Ranch, CA that Zach Dank built and had to be torn down. Talk about the need to go scary fast, and then hit a 20 ft hip, to berm, to skinny 10 ft in the air. One of the down ramps off a skinny had about a 3 ft gap halfway down that you had to bunny hop. That video that made the rounds was sick, and did not even do it justice. 

Really well made trail too, so you basically had no excuse not to hit it, because you knew if you did go fast enough and hit it right, it was like butter. Big props to Z-Dank,


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## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

trestle dh was pretty gnar gnar in the middle of a storm with about 2-3 inches of grapple (aka hail) piled up on the trail. was like shreddin thru dip-n-dots, on a trail that is already pretty damn steep and technical. 

the "waterfall" section of the snowmass msc racecourse is pretty hairball too.


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## CountryBoy (Oct 24, 2006)

Djponee said:


> Chainsmoke at mammoth is pretty gnarly.


Its narly, but not that hard.


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

The NCS @ Deer Valley is pretty gnarly.......three sections are nasty enough to be named; "Little Niagra," Bedrock Drop," and "Barney Rubble."


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

blender said:


> i'll put another vote in for the aforementioned trail in central california, the one that is featured in Chainsmoke 2 (which does that gnar absolutely NO justice)
> 
> i "walked" the trail, just to get an idea of what the features are like.. and let me just say that i damn near broke myself off just climbing down some of those rocks..
> 
> ...


Its even better when you are a Sport class rider and Lancaster is saying oh yeah U can do that and you carry too much speed and get stopped by a tree on the very first steep drop in. Then you look down and your ankle is the size of a large orange!:madman:


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## Endomaniac (Jan 6, 2004)

rmb_mike said:


> Man I gotta get out there sometime. Is it closed for the winter?


Windrock no longer closes in the Winter but once the temps drop it dries slow and that place is exponentially harder when its wet.


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

Slayer and BMW at Diablo are pretty fun.


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## NorcoRider (Dec 30, 2004)

Everyone is mentioning goats gully, rock city etc in Whistler, but check out Insanity One at Sun Peaks, it is crazy. Somehow steeper than those other trails with some stunts and stuff thrown in. So much fun but scary as s***.


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## NorcoRider (Dec 30, 2004)

Sorry for the double post, but that trail with pics posted looks totally nutty, they probably do no justice as to how steep it actually is.


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## blender (Oct 28, 2005)

ianjenn said:


> Its even better when you are a Sport class rider and Lancaster is saying oh yeah U can do that and you carry too much speed and get stopped by a tree on the very first steep drop in. Then you look down and your ankle is the size of a large orange!:madman:


note to self.. 
never believe the "sure you can ride down that" statements from riders that are much better than you

Very nice shots Ian, they somewhat convey the steep rocky terror that is that trail!
the last pic of Dan really shows how messed up that last section is... jeeez


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## chup29 (Nov 28, 2006)

i LOVE that trail...


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## bighitboy (May 16, 2004)

In Deep., whistler when it was pooring.


Roots galore~!

The most insane I think I have ridden, (one for length, one for steepness, one for pure nutty f**ked up sections) is def the old nationals course at Whiteface Mtn in lake placid.

Anything on that hill is tough.


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## ruckus222 (May 29, 2006)

I haven't seen any votes for King Kong in Virgin, consequences can be pretty big if you come off on that trail. But it is soooo fun!


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## bcbud (Jun 1, 2009)

Mount 7 in Golden....


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## mountain_yj (May 18, 2009)

I would like to ride Flying Monkey in Virgin, I need to make it over there sometime.





The gnarliest I've personally ridden is probably hangover on the Grand Mesa or I think it was Even Flow at Keystone when the wood is wet. Some of the stuff on the Chile Trails in Moab is pretty gnar too though


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

Slimy Goats Gully for me... No thanks.



Prettym1k3 said:


> Trail in Ashland, OR. Maybe I've ridden worse, and maybe I just wasn't ready for how steep/gnarly is got, but 15 seconds in I dumped my bike and slid down the trail for about 10 feet. Basically braked into everything. I'm sure if I knew the trail better I'd have been fine, but man... that was sketchy.


You're welcome.


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## ruckus222 (May 29, 2006)

Mountain_yj funny you posted that vid, I got back from Virgin a couple of weeks ago after riding with those rippers. We try to meet up every year, it is always such an epic weekend of shreddness.


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## mountain_yj (May 18, 2009)

ruckus222 said:


> Mountain_yj funny you posted that vid, I got back from Virgin a couple of weeks ago after riding with those rippers. We try to meet up every year, it is always such an epic weekend of shreddness.


The Sageperspective dudes? I've been watching those vids for a while, dudes are good shredders. Should come over and for ranchstyle next year dude, chill and get some riding in:thumbsup:


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Lake Tahoe bike path.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

blender said:


> note to self..
> never believe the "sure you can ride down that" statements from riders that are much better than you
> 
> Very nice shots Ian, they somewhat convey the steep rocky terror that is that trail!
> the last pic of Dan really shows how messed up that last section is... jeeez


Thanks, another few images....


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

blender said:


> note to self..
> never believe the "sure you can ride down that" statements from riders that are much better than you


Dude.....ALWAYS believe that!! PG has your name on it!!


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> Dude.....ALWAYS believe that!! PG has your name on it!!


"You can take a beginner on anything..."


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

Endomaniac said:


> At my local trail system, Windrock, in Oliver Springs TN. We have one trail called Southern Rocks. It's about a mile long and drops around a thousand feet in that mile. I'd say your tires touch dirt for about 500' of that mile, the rest of the time you're dropping from boulder to boulder. If you where unknowingly dropped in the middle of the trail you would swear it was a dry creek bed and no line existed. I only know of a few people that can clean it.


Eh, windrock ain't easy, but it's got nothing on some of the other trails mentioned in this thread.


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## Truckee Trash (Sep 18, 2007)

Endomaniac said:


> At my local trail system, Windrock, in Oliver Springs TN. We have one trail called Southern Rocks. It's about a mile long and drops around a thousand feet in that mile. I'd say your tires touch dirt for about 500' of that mile, the rest of the time you're dropping from boulder to boulder. If you where unknowingly dropped in the middle of the trail you would swear it was a dry creek bed and no line existed. I only know of a few people that can clean it.


How close is that to Memphis/Cordova my parents live out there and I've only been able to ride at Shelby Farms and Stanky Creek.

Cheers!


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## downhill mike (Mar 12, 2005)

Ginger at Bootleg Canyon and Cliffs of Insanity at Whiteface Mountain Bike Park gets my vote for gnarliest I have ever ridden. And those 2 trails are about as opposite as you can get.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

downhill mike said:


> Ginger at Bootleg Canyon and Cliffs of Insanity at Whiteface Mountain Bike Park gets my vote for gnarliest I have ever ridden. And those 2 trails are about as opposite as you can get.


Cliffs of insanity is one of my favorite trails I've ever ridden, sh1t was steep and gnar.

I think lower dogboner takes it for the hardest trail I"VE ever ridden. Next time I'm down south I'll have to try and get somebody to ride chainsmoke II trail with me and show me.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

The hardest trail ever ridden for me is the Beach path out in front of Manhatten/Redondo bch...I injured my neck from whiplash. I had a very hard time just staying on the trail. Crashed 7 or 8 times off the trail...hard to stay on the path when obstacles like this are everywhere......


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> The hardest trail ever ridden for me is the Beach path out in front of Manhatten/Redondo bch...I injured my neck from whiplash. I had a very hard time just staying on the trail. Crashed 7 or 8 times off the trail...hard to stay on the path when obstacles like this are everywhere......


You are the ultimate man SMT. I hope to be as wise as you someday


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## EDizzleVR6 (Oct 4, 2007)

ccspecialized said:


> The first rule about the trail is you don't talk about the trail.
> The second rule about the trail is you don't talk about the trail.
> 
> 
> ...


Fight club rules apply


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Gemini2k05 said:


> You are the ultimate man SMT. I hope to be as wise as you someday


reality...hardest trail to ride without crashing and getting neck hurt from what was that??


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

captain spaulding said:


> really?
> 
> Goat's Gully wet is prob the trickiest, but not huge consequences if you fall(as long as you don't fall down the side of the trail)..


Last time I rode test of metal the damn snow making pipes were knee high clothes lines, literally suspended across the trail. Dirt had washed out, and riding that kind of steep rooty rocky shizzle with wet greasy metal thrown in makes for interesting riding.

Slayer and BMW are solid.


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## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> The hardest trail ever ridden for me is the Beach path out in front of Manhatten/Redondo bch...I injured my neck from whiplash. I had a very hard time just staying on the trail. Crashed 7 or 8 times off the trail...hard to stay on the path when obstacles like this are everywhere......


AWESOME PIC.:eekster:


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## LucasP (Feb 27, 2008)

Prettym1k3 said:


> Trail in Ashland, OR. Maybe I've ridden worse, and maybe I just wasn't ready for how steep/gnarly is got, but 15 seconds in I dumped my bike and slid down the trail for about 10 feet. Basically braked into everything. I'm sure if I knew the trail better I'd have been fine, but man... that was sketchy.


There are not any real tech trails in ashland.


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## eabos (Jun 11, 2005)

Good to see Bootleg getting some mentions in here. Love that place! Sooo much fun!!

I'm trying to think of the gnarliest thing I've ridden and I'm coming up blank. I know there is something that beats Bootleg but I can't put my finger on it...hmmm, I must have hit my head on this trail


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## mtnbiker0755 (Oct 20, 2004)

This thread needs more pics!!! It's like talking about porn, and not just watching it!!!


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## hurricanejoel (Oct 24, 2008)

Toughest trails I've come across - in terms of steep, tech., and awkward lines - are scattered through North Vancouver. A few in the Sea to Sky area too, none of which are in WBP.


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## LeeL (Jan 12, 2004)

mtnbiker0755 said:


> This thread needs more pics!!! It's like talking about porn, and not just watching it!!!


here you go uber radgnar panties


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## Dawson308 (May 13, 2008)

Another vote for Dog Bone at Northstar.


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

LeeL said:


> here you go uber radgnar panties


PFFFFF! speedbumps! i could do that on my XC bike 

wheres the uber gnar on that trail? I wanna see it


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## buckoW (Feb 7, 2007)

Champery WC track in the wet is one of the hardest I know.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Dog Bone at Northstar is a flat paved road compared to a lot of other trails.


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## huntandride (Sep 29, 2007)

DHidiot said:


> Dog Bone at Northstar is a flat paved road compared to a lot of other trails.


I could imagine that but for me its the gnarliest ive ever done..also its not a rocky but lower dogbone is more tech for me than vietnam


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

DHidiot said:


> Dog Bone at Northstar is a flat paved road compared to a lot of other trails.


truth, but it does have its moments, fabio falls in particular is fun to pin.


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## baxterbike (Apr 2, 2009)

blahblahblahblhahahahahasuckers *edited* is one of the the steepest/most exposed thing I've seen.... and I've seen all the N* trails, goat's gully, plenty WC's, etc.

anyone have pictures And to top it off, when i "rode" it, I got stung by a hornet. Just another #$^& hazard


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

baxterbike said:


> blahblahblahblahblah is one of the the steepest/most exposed thing I've seen.... and I've seen all the N* trails, goat's gully, plenty WC's, etc.
> 
> anyone have pictures And to top it off, when i "rode" it, I got stung by a hornet. Just another #$^& hazard


sounds gnarly. Definitely a low key trail. Keep it that way please. care to edit your post?


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

ianjenn said:


> Thanks, another few images....


the funniest part about this one, is check out that access road in back. that is going UPhill to the right. now rotate the picture to the left 20 degrees and see how steep it looks


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

I'm surprized the diablo kids didn't mention "deceit", it used to be even harder before the the rocks got a little arranged,i don't even think it was a named trial back then. There's "hardcore" at plattekill when they first made cut it ,it was rather disturbing, there's a few other trails at plattekill, i don't know the names surfy shaley discontrol, "trail 12" was tough for a year or so.


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

Bryguy17 said:


> the funniest part about this one, is check out that access road in back. that is going UPhill to the right. now rotate the picture to the left 20 degrees and see how steep it looks


The best part is that that particular road is level! Such a nuts trail...


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

LucasP said:


> There are not any real tech trails in ashland.


Not flaming you, but I'm not convinced you know all the trails in question. Your definition of "tech" may be different from others, but when a guy who regularly hits Northstar says one of our trails is tough...

Mostly though, we have more speed than tech. That's for sure.


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## Hardtails Are Better (May 4, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> Dude.....ALWAYS believe that!! PG has your name on it!!


PG is a good time, rode that for the first time Saturday. There's another trail off the top there, forget the name, but a bit farther down the fire road from the shuttle drop that's a lot more crazy, at least IMO. PG's got the one stupid waterfall into the sharp left hander, but there's nothing else on there that's that nuts.


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## LeeL (Jan 12, 2004)

Stripes said:


> Thanks for using my pic. Nice to see B Line get some love here.  Everyone was on this August when I was there. I wouldn't call it gnar though by any means.
> 
> That was my first DH ride, and I enjoyed B-line, which is where this was taken. While it's not the most technical thing at Whistler, my buddy I went with was really not willing to try much more than that.


Stripes = sorry I wasn't making fun of you. More of the term "uber GNAR". I actually think B-Line is a great warmup - especially doing it without pedalling and just pumping


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Hardtails Are Better said:


> PG is a good time, rode that for the first time Saturday. There's another trail off the top there, forget the name, but a bit farther down the fire road from the shuttle drop that's a lot more crazy, at least IMO. PG's got the one stupid waterfall into the sharp left hander, but there's nothing else on there that's that nuts.


I'd say the roller just after it (if you don't take the go-around) is just about as nuts. It's what, like 20' tall with a harsh g-out and a drop after it?

Edit: Wait a minute, you've got the green BottleRocket. I actually rode that trail with you haha.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

there's all kind of gnar,on xc trails there are boulder field sections, they may not be very dh ,perfectly flat,but can be hard to clear, using that cheater line on the edge doesn't count. Waywayonda had a boulderfield we used to call "the impossible" then after a year or so it became more likely in one direction, it became "the improbable". Not to long ago I rode a boulder field down from the lookout on the skyline yellow dot lookout, with six inches of travel and fr headangles it was amusing/fun, i flashed back that 15 years ago ,on my hardtail klien, making that field was epic, before that i rode the valleys between the rocks ,this one taught me to eye up lines across the peaks.Other XC gnar,an odd ringwood trail that not to many know,blue turns into yelow going towards skyline,most people think(as i did) that it just changes,but it's actually a T, you can turn left,nice rollercoaster across rocks and descends steep into the scout camp area,i had everybody bailing and or walking..


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## ebarker9 (Jul 10, 2006)

herbn said:


> I'm surprized the diablo kids didn't mention "deceit", it used to be even harder before the the rocks got a little arranged,i don't even think it was a named trial back then.


Deceit is definitely beyond my skill level, but it's not TOO bad.

Worst I've ever heard of/seen pictures of would probably be that Whistler trail that someone posted pictures of over on RM...starts with a "T".


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## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

Entertainer at Mt.Shasta, very tech in some area's, but fun as hell to ride.


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## HTFR (Jan 11, 2007)

Southern Rocks at windrock. Its not steep and there isnt one or two steep rocky sections it is just rocks and boulders for the whole trail. It is relentless with no flow! It kicked my a$$. loved it.


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

ebarker9 said:


> Deceit is definitely beyond my skill level, but it's not TOO bad.
> 
> Worst I've ever heard of/seen pictures of would probably be that Whistler trail that someone posted pictures of over on RM...starts with a "T".


Deceit is a pretty technical trail, but judging from some of the pictures/video in this thread, you're right, it doesn't deserve to be mentioned here. I feel like Diablo has a lot of trails that are technically difficult OR have a very high penalty for failure, but not a whole lot that combine both of those elements. For example, Deceit is pretty technical, but isn't all that steep, and it's not like if you take a spill you're going to fall off a cliff.

I'd have to say the most scared I've been riding a mountain bike was probably at whiteface. It was so steep and leafy that I just had to lean back and trust the bike. Felt a real sense of accomplishment getting through sections there without going OTB.


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## Hardtails Are Better (May 4, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> I'd say the roller just after it (if you don't take the go-around) is just about as nuts. It's what, like 20' tall with a harsh g-out and a drop after it?
> 
> Edit: Wait a minute, you've got the green BottleRocket. I actually rode that trail with you haha.


Oh, ****, Gordon, right? On the R9? That's funny.

You're right, I forgot about the big ass one after the one I mentioned. To be fair I, I walked both of them, but by the time we got to the second I'd jacked my bike up and didn't have a rear brake. The first one just scares me because if you mess something up and blow through the corner you've got a long ass way to fall. Like the dude on the Glory (forget his name) almost did.


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## L. Ron Hoover (Feb 1, 2006)

Out of the bike parks I've visited I'd have to say that the toughest trails for me were (in no particular order)

-Cliffs of Insanity at Whiteface, especially coated in mud.
-The middle section of the World Cup course at Bromont. 
-Goat's Gully/Captain Safety/In Deep in the rain.
-Hairway to Steven at Camp Fortune (small hill in Quebec).

Outside of the parks, I saw stuff on the North Shore (especially Cypress) that made me stand back and shake my head and wonder how _anyone_ could ride it, only to see a local rider nonchalantly ride the section.  The Shore has a lot of very steep stuff, with abrupt turns, drops and transitions, typically strewn with wet roots and big rocks.

There are also a couple of local downhill trails that are pretty insane. Think North Shore, with smaller hills, smaller trees and pointier rocks. Janeway (named for the local kids' hospital) immediately jumps to mind.

For overall relentless tech in a bike park, Whiteface is the place. Everything is super steep and technical. Fun riding.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Hardtails Are Better said:


> Oh, ****, Gordon, right? On the R9? That's funny.
> 
> You're right, I forgot about the big ass one after the one I mentioned. To be fair I, I walked both of them, but by the time we got to the second I'd jacked my bike up and didn't have a rear brake. The first one just scares me because if you mess something up and blow through the corner you've got a long ass way to fall. Like the dude on the Glory (forget his name) almost did.


That's me!

I wouldn't ride either of those on that steep of a bike either (with a broken lever and a flat tire no less). That's asking for trouble. The guy on the Glory is John, and is one lucky SOB. One more roll further, he would have been off the cliff. Scary.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

L. Ron Hoover said:


> Out of the bike parks I've visited I'd have to say that the toughest trails for me were (in no particular order)
> 
> -Cliffs of Insanity at Whiteface, especially coated in mud.


Anyone have pics of this "cliffs on insanity" trail? It get's mentioned all the time as whiteface's premier trail, and I have yet to see videos/pics of anything at whiteface that looks really crazy. help me out!


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## Hardtails Are Better (May 4, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> That's me!
> 
> I wouldn't ride either of those on that steep of a bike either (with a broken lever and a flat tire no less). That's asking for trouble. The guy on the Glory is John, and is one lucky SOB. One more roll further, he would have been off the cliff. Scary.


Well, I hadn't flatted yet.  That came later.

The bike's not actually as steep as stock, I've got a -1.5 degree headset in it, which helps a lot. I still need to get a proper DH bike though. Winter project maybe.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> I agree...just keep ur speed on Tunnel;......ridden on a rigid


We were dropping tunnel in 1990 on BMX bikes lol

A few months back right after the fire, and with no vegetation to break your fall, it felt you were going to drop to the bottom of the canyon at any second. The loose ash and shale washed into the trail made it a PITA.


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Sure you do...


Yup, we do!


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## schneidie (Aug 30, 2008)

Another vote for the top section of threshold at highland.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

schneidie said:


> Another vote for the top section of threshold at highland.


Limited travels, but I find Threshold is awesome! I like the section where you stomp down the open rock with a 2-3' to a 3-4' then fade left (usually in some slop) between trees and turn left/down a steep giant rockface/pile then right and on out of there!

That trail rules!


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## fishywishy (Feb 23, 2008)

mount snow dh trail back in the 90s. it wasnt yard sale, but it was still very steep. i was on my hardtail too :thumbsup:


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## BetterRide (Apr 6, 2004)

Ginger at Bootleg Canyon, King Kong in Virgin, Snowshoe DH track in the rain 2004? Mt. Saint Anne World Cup track in the rain


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## JefedelosJefes (Jun 30, 2004)

This thread should have ended at post #12... end of story. Makes your pucker squeel.


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## systmrocks99 (Jan 1, 2005)

I've been to a lot of places on my bike, Whistler...Northstar...Deer Valley... But nothing can compare to the insanity of the trail that must not be named on the central coast.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Haha people always ask how it compares....simply can't be done!


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

DHidiot said:


> Haha people always ask how it compares....simply can't be done!


TRU DAT!!!


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Gnarliest trail out there is not a trail


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## dankist4x4 (Jun 26, 2006)

West coast is tough but the East coast is just down right mean. My vote goes to Windrock hands down.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

dankist4x4 said:


> West coast is tough but the East coast is just down right mean. My vote goes to Windrock hands down.


Close....but not quite. Windrock (although somewhat challenging and insanely fun) is a freeway through the open plains of Kansas compared to our "core" Socal DH trails.


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## Socket. (Oct 24, 2008)

Shalemaster at Whistler. Spot the rider:










Anonymous BC trail - those who know what and where it is, please keep it to yourselves. It's not a legal trail and it's not safe for the general public:

This is the first section of trail. At the bottom is a loose off camber corner - if you don't make it, you run into a huge fallen tree at roughly chest height.









The 2nd chute on this trail. This one had a slightly easier run out, you had nearly 3 metres to stop before you ran into or off anything.









Chute #3...









It continues like that time and time again, until this bit - the last of the "**** this up and you'll be in serious trouble" chutes. Weird perspective that doesn't really show the gradient of the ground, but that tree in the background is dead vertical.









Goats Gully smacks your ***** up the first few times you ride it, but once you know the lines it's not really too difficult. Then you can step up to the steep lines, which again aren't actually that hard, just require a lot of commitment. The main line is fine in the wet, but some of the steep lines would be super sketchy - never had the balls to hit em in the wet, never found anyone else who has either.









Edit: oh yeah, and I got to watch the Champery world cup in the pissing rain, in person, in 2007. I wasn't riding it but it looked DAMN hard, some bits were so steep they weren't even close to walkable - and then it started raining. I would rate it up there with the stuff I've just posted photos of.


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

@socket

Thanks for sharing, looks crazy!


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

Socket. said:


> Anonymous BC trail - those who know what and where it is, please keep it to yourselves. It's not a legal trail and it's not safe for the general public:


Likely the most gnar stuff anyone here has posted.

EB


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## ebarker9 (Jul 10, 2006)

ebxtreme said:


> Likely the most gnar stuff anyone here has posted.
> 
> EB


That's what I was referencing earlier. Looks horrendous.


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## rossp (Mar 7, 2005)

being a diablo regular, the trails at Bootleg canyon scared me way more than the stuff at diablo - all down to the sharp rocks and the exposure if you fail...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

There are rocky trails.

There are Arizona trails.

And then there are rocky Arizona trails.

Not the most technical or hairball in the state, but you have to know and understand this kind of riding. People that ride this from out of state are usually in for quite a shock. This ain't South Mountain, although there is crazy stuff on South Mountain that 99% of people have not ridden. Otherwise we also have the regular DH trails with tons of rocks, drops, gaps, vertical rock walls, etc. The thing is that we have quite an excess of tech/gnar trails. Goat Camp and Alta, just to name a few.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nice rocks.


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## JCL (Oct 17, 2006)

Wet or dry is the main factor. I'd rather ride the above BC trail than say Joyride in the wet.


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

JCL said:


> Wet or dry is the main factor. I'd rather ride the above BC trail than say Joyride in the wet.


Agreed. Wet Joyride + me = broken bike + bruises...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Socket. said:


> Shalemaster at Whistler. Spot the rider:
> f.


Impressive


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## Socket. (Oct 24, 2008)

JCL said:


> Wet or dry is the main factor. I'd rather ride the above BC trail than say Joyride in the wet.


That trail in the dry is harder than Joyride in the wet, I've ridden both... that trail in the wet you simply shouldn't ride (beat your chest all you want, I wouldn't even consider it), there is just too much steep stuff with no runout. The only particularly hard thing on Joyride in the wet is McSkimming Rock, all that means is that you have to get off the brakes more and smash into that hole/berm at the bottom harder. Everything else is more or less the same as in the dry in terms of how hard it is to simply get down it.


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## tannerdrummer (Jul 5, 2009)

Damn those things are big....uummm talking about those rocks


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## JCL (Oct 17, 2006)

Socket. said:


> That trail in the dry is harder than Joyride in the wet, I've ridden both... that trail in the wet you simply shouldn't ride (beat your chest all you want, I wouldn't even consider it), there is just too much steep stuff with no runout. The only particularly hard thing on Joyride in the wet is McSkimming Rock, all that means is that you have to get off the brakes more and smash into that hole/berm at the bottom harder. Everything else is more or less the same as in the dry in terms of how hard it is to simply get down it.


Yes I've ridden both. There are a few similar trails to 'that' trail on the Shore. I hate trails with rock faces like Joyride in the wet so I guess it's subjective.


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## Socket. (Oct 24, 2008)

JCL said:


> Yes I've ridden both. There are a few similar trails to 'that' trail on the Shore. I hate trails with rock faces like Joyride in the wet so I guess it's subjective.


haha fair enough... have you ridden "that trail" in the wet though? There are so many steep rooty bits that I would not want to go near in the wet.

Also Captain Safety in the wet is a good one.... that 2nd rock roller is sketchy no matter how good a rider you are.


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## L. Ron Hoover (Feb 1, 2006)

Socket. said:


> haha fair enough... have you ridden "that trail" in the wet though? There are so many steep rooty bits that I would not want to go near in the wet.
> 
> Also Captain Safety in the wet is a good one.... that 2nd rock roller is sketchy no matter how good a rider you are.


It sure is... I had an interesting trip down that Captain Safety in the wet a couple of years ago. I'm not going to say I "rode" it as it was more or less an uncontrolled slide. 

I watched a couple of guys ride that Shalemaster thing. If anything, it's even worse than the pic you posted suggests.

I find the rocks in WBP slipperiest after a small amount of rain following a long dry spell. All that dust that gets dragged onto the rocks turns into grease. If it rains a lot, most of it gets washed off.

But there's a pile of crazy stuff in BC that WBP can't even touch in terms of steep and technical.


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

Socket said:


> . The only particularly hard thing on Joyride in the wet is McSkimming Rock, all that means is that you have to get off the brakes more and smash into that hole/berm at the bottom harder. Everything else is more or less the same as in the dry in terms of how hard it is to simply get down it.


Ha....I got taken out on the McSkimming rock many years ago. Totally out of control coming down it and ended up in the bushes (lucky!).

That section got a ton easier this season when they cut the log at the top out. Now you can come onto the rock with a better line and more control than when you had to roll over the log. I love whizzing by the trees with all the thick ski pads wrapped around them. :thumbsup:


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

The ski pads thing reminds me of one of the few trails at plattekill that i "didn't bother to do" just a really steep stretch and a little off camber towards a tree,if it's the slightest bit extra dusty or leafy or you drag the brakes a little, you're heading that way,there just this really thick pad wrapped around the magnetic tree. I wouldn't call it uber tech though.


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## Gibb (Nov 17, 2009)

In my opinion the most technical trails around SLC are in Little Cottonwood Canyon. The most difficult trail I've ever road is "Five Miles of Hell" in The San Rafael Swell.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Gibb said:


> In my opinion the most technical trails around SLC are in Little Cottonwood Canyon. The most difficult trail I've ever road is "Five Miles of Hell" in The San Rafael Swell.


5MOH the moto trail? Just follow the white line across the slickrock? Seen helmet cams of the whole thing - there's some awesome looking stuff for sure. Mildly technical, yes, but not to confused with death-defying technical.


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## JCL (Oct 17, 2006)

Socket. said:


> haha fair enough... have you ridden "that trail" in the wet though? There are so many steep rooty bits that I would not want to go near in the wet.
> 
> Also Captain Safety in the wet is a good one.... that 2nd rock roller is sketchy no matter how good a rider you are.


Yeah I wouldn't go near 'that trail' in the wet. That's what I was getting at with wet/dry and you bring up a classic example with Capt Safety. I'm always shitting it going into that in the wet. More than 'that trail' in the dry.

IMO.


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## pedro_sandchez (May 6, 2006)

Haven't ridden it, but there is a mythical trail in Pisgah National Forest N.C. called SMP. 
Link to short vid of the top section:
http://www.hickhucksters.com/2008/04/hell-of-a-crash/


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Megaladon in Moab. Haven't ridden it, but I've heard it described as 'The Notch' repeated over and over for a couple of _miles_.

Photos of 'The Notch' courtesy of anthonys for illustration purposes only.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2009)

KRob said:


> Megaladon in Moab. Haven't ridden it, but I've heard it described as 'The Notch' repeated over and over for a couple of _miles_.
> 
> Photos of 'The Notch' courtesy of anthonys for illustration purposes only.


Ah the "Notch" not too bad when its dry, but we went through there in about 12" of snow over Halloween weekend. Made it a bit more interesting


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## BetterRide (Apr 6, 2004)

KRob said:


> Megaladon in Moab. Haven't ridden it, but I've heard it described as 'The Notch' repeated over and over for a couple of _miles_.
> 
> Photos of 'The Notch' courtesy of anthonys for illustration purposes only.


Megladon is super gnar in spots (and a really great trail) but doesn't compare to King Kong, Ginger or the trails in BC that have been posted on this thread.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2009)

BetterRide said:


> Megladon is super gnar in spots (and a really great trail) but doesn't compare to King Kong, Ginger or the trails in BC that have been posted on this thread.


Agreed, it doesn't even compare to most "XC" trails in PHX. Sure, that one 20 foot section can be a little gnar, but its not life or death


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## Socket. (Oct 24, 2008)

ebxtreme said:


> Ha....I got taken out on the McSkimming rock many years ago. Totally out of control coming down it and ended up in the bushes (lucky!).
> 
> That section got a ton easier this season when they cut the log at the top out. Now you can come onto the rock with a better line and more control than when you had to roll over the log. I love whizzing by the trees with all the thick ski pads wrapped around them. :thumbsup:


Yeah that rock is pretty scary if you come in too fast. They had a couple of Phast Wednesday races down that this year, I was shitting bricks cos I came into it at more than walking pace - ended up smashing the living hell out of that hole/berm at the bottom. There is a line there somewhere, on the left IIRC, where you can avoid the harsh bottom-out by tracking over a dirt bank instead, same as that harsh drop at the bottom of the first chute on Rock City.

When did they cut that log out? I got there in mid June and think I can vaguely remember there being a log there the first time I rode it... or I could be imagining things, not really sure.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

sixsixtysix said:


> Agreed, it doesn't even compare to most "XC" trails in PHX. Sure, that one 20 foot section can be a little gnar, but its not life or death


"It" meaning Megaladon?... or "it" meaning Lower Porcupine Singletrack of which the "Notch" is a short 20-30 foot section?

Two totally different trails. Like I said, I just included the Notch photos for illustration purposes. The Notch is on LPS... _not_ on Megaladon.


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## mouse jockey (May 7, 2004)

DFT and I rode the unnamed trail in central cal this weekend. Yep, definitely the most technical trail I have ridden. It's a bit more eroded now than pics and videos show. It looks to be in spots as steep as the above "unnamed trail" in Canada, but with rocks and not roots.

Before I rode that trail I would have said Ginger at Bootleg or the Flying Monkey "king kong" line was the most technical for me.

Nice trail to get your steep chops and rocky drops in.

Also rode another one that is comparble to "old man's" in AZ. Rocky and steep goodness.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

mouse jockey said:


> DFT and I rode the unnamed trail in central cal this weekend. Yep, definitely the most technical trail I have ridden. It's a bit more eroded now than pics and videos show. It looks to be in spots as steep as the above "unnamed trail" in Canada, but with rocks and not roots.
> 
> Before I rode that trail I would have said Ginger at Bootleg or the Flying Monkey "king kong" line was the most technical for me.
> 
> ...


I'm curious to hear DFT's take on it. Did you guys actually clean the entire trail?


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## AgentX (Jul 11, 2005)

Flying Monkey in Virgin would still have scared the **** out of me even if I wasn't toting a 20lb backpack full of photo gear.


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## mouse jockey (May 7, 2004)

DHidiot said:


> I'm curious to hear DFT's take on it. Did you guys actually clean the entire trail?


No. DFT cleaned most of it with the exception of 2 sections. I walked two more. I couldn't risk an injury now, and the risk factor was 50/50 for me. (I kept seeing my daughter's smiling face as I looked down the abyss.) 

Give us a few more times on it and we may (MAYBE) able to clean it, or at least ride it with dabs. (With the exception of one section which I don't know if either of us would be able to. It's a small section in the middle, not the first drop in.)


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

mouse jockey said:


> No. DFT cleaned most of it with the exception of 2 sections. I walked two more. I couldn't risk an injury now, and the risk factor was 50/50 for me. (I kept seeing my daughter's smiling face as I looked down the abyss.)
> 
> Give us a few more times on it and we may (MAYBE) able to clean it, or at least ride it with dabs. (With the exception of one section which I don't know if either of us would be able to. It's a small section in the middle, not the first drop in.)


Wow, just checked your profile, that trails is NOT meant for 43 year olds, ha ha. You got some balls.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> The hardest trail ever ridden for me is the Beach path out in front of Manhatten/Redondo bch...I injured my neck from whiplash. I had a very hard time just staying on the trail. Crashed 7 or 8 times off the trail...hard to stay on the path when obstacles like this are everywhere......


SCHWING tent pole she's a babe!


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

mouse jockey said:


> No. DFT cleaned most of it with the exception of 2 sections. I walked two more. I couldn't risk an injury now, and the risk factor was 50/50 for me. (I kept seeing my daughter's smiling face as I looked down the abyss.)
> 
> Give us a few more times on it and we may (MAYBE) able to clean it, or at least ride it with dabs. (With the exception of one section which I don't know if either of us would be able to. It's a small section in the middle, not the first drop in.)


The one under the canopy of trees, drop into the off-camber corner or the drop in the corner (left-hander)?

Did you see the original exit at the bottom off to the left near the gate? That, and the mini-alternate high line near the bottom are the hardest sections of the whole trail...simply insane.


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

mouse jockey said:


> DFT and I rode the unnamed trail in central cal this weekend. Yep, definitely the most technical trail I have ridden. It's a bit more eroded now than pics and videos show. It looks to be in spots as steep as the above "unnamed trail" in Canada, but with rocks and not roots.
> 
> Before I rode that trail I would have said Ginger at Bootleg or the Flying Monkey "king kong" line was the most technical for me.
> 
> ...


You sir, have earned my utmost respect. :rockon:


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

AgentX said:


> Flying Monkey in Virgin would still have scared the **** out of me even if I wasn't toting a 20lb backpack full of photo gear.


The only problem with that trail is the 15 foot drop to flat(about the 7th stunt...right after the 20 - 25 foot steep roll in)....everything else is do-able
still a great trail with better then most extremeness


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DFT on the phone with me after he rode it......"INSANE"


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

He should have told you it was a cakewalk. I want to see you ride it like you've been telling me you're going to.


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## mtnryder56 (Sep 13, 2008)

Another great contestant is M&M in marin. Forgot about that one. Really tight single track but with BIG features and no room for error. Lots of fun


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## Gelbwurstbrot (Jul 31, 2004)

IXS Cup 2007 in Germany Garmisch Partenkirchen


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

mtnryder56 said:


> Another great contestant is M&M in marin. Forgot about that one. Really tight single track but with BIG features and no room for error. Lots of fun


DUDE pull that

NOW!!!!!!!!:madman: 
:skep:


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Gelbwurstbrot said:


> IXS Cup 2007 in Germany Garmisch Partenkirchen


Wet, muddy roots. Gnar +1


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## wizardB (May 1, 2006)

LeeL said:


> here you go uber radgnar panties


Nice Lee you showed them our toughest


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## NAYR751 (Apr 22, 2006)

ianjenn said:


> DUDE pull that
> 
> NOW!!!!!!!!:madman:
> :skep:


Last time I was up on that trail it was in ruins. Some good stuff on it still, but nothing is in that great of shape. No one seems to ride it anymore....


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## downhill mike (Mar 12, 2005)

I'd have to say the most scared I've been riding a mountain bike was probably at whiteface. It was so steep and leafy that I just had to lean back and trust the bike. Felt a real sense of accomplishment getting through sections there without going OTB.[/QUOTE said:


> Thanks dude! We aim to please.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

novato kid said:


> Last time I was up on that trail it was in ruins. Some good stuff on it still, but nothing is in that great of shape. No one seems to ride it anymore....


Tell Eric to get his stuff together and start riding it again!


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## downhill mike (Mar 12, 2005)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Anyone have pics of this "cliffs on insanity" trail? It get's mentioned all the time as whiteface's premier trail, and I have yet to see videos/pics of anything at whiteface that looks really crazy. help me out!


Not the best picture from the Cliffs. This spot we call the 'V" rock.








Immediate right switchback after this section followed by a super hard left switchback. When you finish this trail you are either stoked or pissed. Nothing in between.

This trail has gotten way harder in the last 2 years. Roots are more exposed and where there was dirt under the roots is now gone, so it appears way gnarlier. Also it's not as steep as Evil Empire (single-track used in the 5 K DH's), and does not drain nearly as well. Most of last year there were standing puddles.

This trail is the gnarliest at Whiteface. It goes along the Stag Brook and has a few very difficult drops. This one is a true 12 feet, has a crazy take off and a sniper landing.








I 1st put this picture up in July after extreme freeride Peter Mills of Asheville hit this. Tons of people online said it looked easy and they could do on a Reign. Well, many showed up to do this drop on their big bikes, and no one even attempted it. It's gnarly!

There are over 900 pictures on our web site: www.downhillmike.com. Pictures from every trail we have.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

What's so hard about that V-rock? 

Also unless the landing to that drop is twice as far down as the picture makes it seem, that is no 12'. Sorry to start the drop-height debate, but it isn't.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> Sorry to start the drop-height debate, but it isn't.


God don't go there. You should know by now trying to estimate height from a pic is worthless. Remember Scorpion?


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## downhill mike (Mar 12, 2005)

The 'V" rock is not that hard for a solid sport rider +. It's just one of the few pictures I had of the trail "Cliffs of Insanity" and was replying to an earlier post asking. The Cliffs is certainly not the hardest trail anywhere. Just at Whiteface and it's a very challenging trail with many switchbacks, tons of exposed roots, very steep and maybe 1,000' of vertical?

As for the 2nd picture when you measure from the top of the take off straight down it's 12 feet. Example; if you fell off of the top you would fall 12 feet. The bottom of that rock is not showing in the picture.


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## Socket. (Oct 24, 2008)

downhill mike said:


> As for the 2nd picture when you measure from the top of the take off straight down it's 12 feet. Example; if you fell off of the top you would fall 12 feet. The bottom of that rock is not showing in the picture.


Where do you actually land? Is it in that pic, or "behind" where the dirt stops in the bottom right of the pic? So you actually have to clear over a little rock outcrop?


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## downhill mike (Mar 12, 2005)

Socket. said:


> Where do you actually land? Is it in that pic, or "behind" where the dirt stops in the bottom right of the pic? So you actually have to clear over a little rock outcrop?


At the bottom right. To the right of the small slanted rock and left of the root. The river is very close to the landing and that would be another small drop and over the next waterfalls.

The take off (not shown) is a squeeze move then onto a weird shaped rock to the drop. Being there really helps, just the noise of the falls and rapids adds a bit to the rush.

Once again not saying this is the hardest anywhere. Just a beautiful location, a cool freerider and way gnar.


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## banga (Aug 3, 2004)

buckoW said:


> Champery WC track in the wet is one of the hardest I know.


Its hard enough in the dry!


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

*Really?*



mouse jockey said:


> DFT and I rode the unnamed trail in central cal this weekend. Yep, definitely the most technical trail I have ridden. It's a bit more eroded now than pics and videos show. It looks to be in spots as steep as the above "unnamed trail" in Canada, but with rocks and not roots.
> 
> Before I rode that trail I would have said Ginger at Bootleg or the Flying Monkey "king kong" line was the most technical for me.
> 
> ...


Admittedly I haven't seen any of the above mentioned trails besides the King Kong, but I have a tough time believing there's a trail with more fear factor than the KK itself. I could see other trails being more technical, as there aren't many rocks down the KK, but I'd still place it on par with any trail around for sheer fear factor. The KK line has huge nasty drops to FLAT, and the places you're dropping onto are seriously narrow (3 feet or so) with near vertical precipices dropping a couple hundred feet off either side. Think of walking the plank hundreds of feet up while hitting 10-15 footers and near vertical rollers!


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

wasea04 said:


> Admittedly I haven't seen any of the above mentioned trails besides the King Kong, but I have a tough time believing there's a trail with more fear factor than the KK itself. I could see other trails being more technical, as there aren't many rocks down the KK, but I'd still place it on par with any trail around for sheer fear factor. The KK line has huge nasty drops to FLAT, and the places you're dropping onto are seriously narrow (3 feet or so) with near vertical precipices dropping a couple hundred feet off either side. Think of walking the plank hundreds of feet up while hitting 10-15 footers and near vertical rollers!


Allen...take away that one drop to flat and I would ride King Kong...trail is easier then


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

No comment on toughest trail (probably cliffs of insanity of dogbone for me), as far as features go definitely some stuff in tahoe, but I'll give DH.Mike some credit here, that drop actually is 12feet from lip to bottom, slightly larger if you drop it. That picture is a bad angle. 

Its a pretty heinious drop, because the landing is about a bike length (maybe less) long with consequences on either side, its not super steep so its not a butter landing if you hit it perfectly, and there is no run in. Like literally no run in. There are rocks and trees everywhere, so you have to come into it turning.


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## helimech (Mar 21, 2006)

sixsixtysix said:


> Agreed, it doesn't even compare to most "XC" trails in PHX. Sure, that one 20 foot section can be a little gnar, but its not life or death


So you have rode megladon sixty????????????????????????? The ending of meg is steep and yes it does not even compare to some of the other trails on this thread. But, If I'm in Moab I'll hit up meg before that road called Porq. The stuff above meg is super fun too.
The pic is the ending of meg, ya there are gnarlier trails than this but its not XC.


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> I agree...just keep ur speed on Tunnel;......ridden on a rigid


the only time i ever had fun on tunnel was on my scab with the rigid fork...


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

scabrider said:


> the only time i ever had fun on tunnel was on my scab with the rigid fork...


Then you're clearly doing something wrong.


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## Nsynk (Sep 30, 2008)

Ditto for Champery.

It is so so steep and loose and off camber with roots everywhere.

I tried it last year on a damp (not even really wet) day and just could not stay on the bike.

None of the other world cup courses I have ridden compare with this one, including Fort Bill, which is generally regarded as the toughest on the circuit.

I have already booked my place to watch the Champery World Cup round in 2010, cannot wait to see the best in action on it.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

Nsynk said:


> I have already booked my place for the Champery World Cup round in 2010, cannot wait to see the best in action on it.


You're a lucky man.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Nsynk said:


> None of the other world cup courses I have ridden compare with this one, including Fort Bill, which is generally regarded as the toughest on the circuit.


Eh? It might the roughest, or the toughest physically, but I've never heard the racers refer to it as super technical or hard to ride.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

rmb_mike said:


> Windrock, just outside of Knoxville, TN is nationally reknowned for being not easy.


AGREED. Windrock will hand you your azz on a good day. Pad up & get off th brakes !!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

*saw a vid of the "unnamed trail," not looking KK worthy.*



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Allen...take away that one drop to flat and I would ride King Kong...trail is easier then


I know I've already said this, but I was able to see a vid of the nameless central coast trail and while vids don't do difficulty level justice I still think the KK is way gnarlier/scary/difficult.......the only reason it's being pumped up so much here is 'cause most of you guys are from CA.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

wasea04 said:


> I know I've already said this, but I was able to see a vid of the nameless central coast trail and while vids don't do difficulty level justice I still think the KK is way gnarlier/scary/difficult.......the only reason it's being pumped up so much here is 'cause most of you guys are from CA.


That video is of a guy who was able to run a popular trail in SB right behind Rennie, March, Kovarik all day long the entire way down. He was super fast then. SO it is misleading. I am sure their is bigger stuff on KK but it may not be as DH/ TECH the whole way down.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

ianjenn said:


> That video is of a guy who was running a popular trail in SB right behind Rennie the entire way down. He was super fast then. SO it is misleading. I am sure their is bigger stuff on KK but it may not be as DH/ TECH the whole way down.


What video is this? And if it's tunnel, then ya, it's not that tech, just rough as ****.


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

wasea04 said:


> I know I've already said this, but I was able to see a vid of the nameless central coast trail and while vids don't do difficulty level justice I still think the KK is way gnarlier/scary/difficult.......the only reason it's being pumped up so much here is 'cause most of you guys are from CA.


The same could be said about anyone here - including you with King Kong - pumping up a given trail because it's what they know. It's hard to fathom a trail harder than XX trail because it's the most difficult you (or I) have seen. Just sayin'.....

I will say that if riders haven't been to places like Champerey or Nelson, BC, then I think "uber gnar" is relative to what you've seen. Of course, anyone could say the Rampage stuff near Virgin is the most gnar and they'd be right, but there are about 30 people in the world that can ride that stuff.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Gemini2k05 said:


> What video is this? And if it's tunnel, then ya, it's not that tech, just rough as ****.


Santa barbara isn't the central coast.


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## jcook1989 (Mar 16, 2008)

So me and a friend or two walked the trail that must not be named form the the bottom to wc, it was getting dark. And I have to say that the pictures do it no justice. Just that bottom section was the most difficult, technical, uber gnar piece of trail i have ever laid eyes on. Can't wait to see some people actually ride it.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

ianjenn said:


> Santa barbara isn't the central coast.


Orly?



ianjenn said:


> That video is of a guy who was running a popular trail in *SB *right behind Rennie the entire way down. He was super fast then. SO it is misleading. I am sure their is bigger stuff on KK but it may not be as DH/ TECH the whole way down.


Sorry, I guess I misread SB as Santa Barbara?


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Orly?
> 
> Sorry, I guess I misread SB as Santa Barbara?


OOPS thats what I get typing at work.


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## mouse jockey (May 7, 2004)

wasea04 said:


> I know I've already said this, but I was able to see a vid of the nameless central coast trail and while vids don't do difficulty level justice I still think the KK is way gnarlier/scary/difficult.......the only reason it's being pumped up so much here is 'cause most of you guys are from CA.


If the video you are referring to is Richard Lancaster riding, I would agree with you, it doesn't look that gnar. In fact when I saw that I thought, "what's the big deal?" But it's a lot different when you are looking at it. That video also doesn't show the lower half of the trail which is nasty.

Plus every guy that is talking about this trail has rode KK, so, with all due respect Wasea, your comment doesn't make much sense. All we are saying is it's more gnar than KK, and we've ridden both, (and KK IS scary) we are not saying it's more gnar than the canadian trails for instance, that as far as I'm aware, not one of us has ridden both. No biggie, we all have our opinions. And the pics of the canadian trails look GNARLY.

If you are ever in SoCal, look me up and I'll show you around bud.
Take care man.

tom


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

^^
All I have to say is nothing. And I'm never one to keep my mouth shut. I've heard of that trail before and knew it was "the gnarliest" but nothing compares to actually seeing it. I can't wait to see people ride it.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

ianjenn said:


> OOPS thats what I get typing at work.


lol, no worries .
.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

Anyone have pics of this King Kong trail? Every other epic trail here has had pics posted, what's the dillio?!?!?


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

*It's no big deal......*



mouse jockey said:


> If the video you are referring to is Richard Lancaster riding, I would agree with you, it doesn't look that gnar. In fact when I saw that I thought, "what's the big deal?" But it's a lot different when you are looking at it. That video also doesn't show the lower half of the trail which is nasty.
> 
> Plus every guy that is talking about this trail has rode KK, so, with all due respect Wasea, your comment doesn't make much sense. All we are saying is it's more gnar than KK, and we've ridden both, (and KK IS scary) we are not saying it's more gnar than the canadian trails for instance, that as far as I'm aware, not one of us has ridden both. No biggie, we all have our opinions. And the pics of the canadian trails look GNARLY.
> 
> ...


It's a vid some kid on pinkbike posted up, but yeah it's no thing :thumbsup:


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## MaxBS (Mar 30, 2008)

buckoW said:


> Champery WC track in the wet is one of the hardest I know.


Agreed I was in for a suprise when I rode that for the first time in the wet. Any chance you got pictures of a trail in chatel bikepark, got a hidden entrance..extremely steep and narrow and crazy in the wet. It starts off with like a northshore bridge (slanted) across quite a high gap (5ft roughyl)??


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

LeeL said:


> here you go uber radgnar panties


LOOKS FAST AND FUN crap capps lock:blush:


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