# Shimano Motors and Batteries - Survey



## vcyclist (Jan 21, 2004)

Is there a list of issues or no-issues that people have had with the Shimano package? I would like to see real world comparison with Shimano vs the Specialized motor and battery. Reliability and the ability to upgrade without huge mods are important to me. 
It seems there are less issues with the Shimano products vs others.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

vcyclist said:


> Is there a list of issues or no-issues that people have had with the Shimano package? I would like to see real world comparison with Shimano vs the Specialized motor and battery. Reliability and the ability to upgrade without huge mods are important to me.
> It seems there are less issues with the Shimano products vs others.


Everyone I know with a Shimano system has had it cut out with error codes at least occasionally. If you look around on here, some people experience this almost every ride. After they cutout, they can be re-started and will go again for some length of time, hours, or days without seeing the issue again. Unfortunately, they often cut out on a steep climb, which can really suck.

Several people on here have reported motor failures with Levos. Search and you will find them.

The Bosch and Yamaha systems seem to be more solid. I personally have put thousands of tough trail miles on my two Bosch powered eMTBs and have had *zero* issues. There are design flaws, IMHO, but as far as reliability they are rock solid. The biggest issue I've seen reported with Bosch that could be tagged as a reliability issue is that the Intuvia display, the large one that mounts in the center of the handlebars, is subject to damage in crashes, and if the mount is damaged, the removable controller display will become loose. When this happens, if you hit a bump, the display loses electrical contact with the mount and the motor shuts off. This is cured by either a new controller display or a new mount, or by just replacing the Intuvia with the later Purion model that lives on the left side of the handlebar, near the grip and which is not removable.

Same with Yamaha as far as I have heard, no one has issues with those, they just work.

The Shimano is Gen 1 and will probably get better, but no one knows when they will be updated. Bosch is just now coming out with the fourth iteration of their system, Yamaha is on Gen 3, Levo is on Gen 2.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

I’ve only been in the ebike world for about 4 months, but in those 4 months I’ve logged just over 1,600 hard miles. I’ve got the Intense Tazer Shimano Steps 8000 system with 504wh battery. Zero problems so far, with my fingers crossed! Love this bike!


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## vcyclist (Jan 21, 2004)

How do I find what manufacturer uses the Bosch?


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## vcyclist (Jan 21, 2004)

Thats a great testimony. I am not bagging the Specialized product as they have the most out there and will have the most returns but it seems like there are a lot of motor replacements, even on the new 2019.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

vcyclist said:


> How do I find what manufacturer uses the Bosch?


I'd imagine you would have to visit each manufacturers website (Brose, Yamaha, Bosch, Shimano, etc...). Keep in mind Bosch just launched a new motor, so most of the reviews you'll be seeing will be on that old design. Most new bikes will be sporting this new Bosch motor.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

vcyclist said:


> How do I find what manufacturer uses the Bosch?


Many manufacturers use multiple systems, but the players in the US with at least some Bosch eMTBs are Haibike, Trek, Cannondale, Bulls, iZip, Kona, Moustache. Mondraker used to make eMTB with Bosch but they shifted to Shimano.

Here is a list of ebike manufacturers that use Bosch, not all are available in the US, and not all make eMTBS:

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/service/brands/ebike-brands/

As pointed out, the new 2020 Bosch Gen4 motors should be arriving soon. Trek has not revealed their 2020 eMTB line yet, but I would think they are so big that they'll be one of the first that have them. The new Bosch motors are 2 pounds lighter without giving up any power. It remains to be seen if they will be as rock solid as the current Performance CX eMTB motors.


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

I have. been riding the shimano 8000 on a canyon spectral: on for three monthes and 600. km and am very satisfyed with its overall performance, the tunning of the assistance and range are all I could ever expect for a first ebike experience.


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## howardv (Nov 11, 2016)

I have the Yamaha motor on my 2017 Haibike mountain bike. I have logged a bit over 800 miles on it. Never had any problems. Been very stable and reliable. Love it!

I also have a 2018 cargo/utility e-bike with the Shimano 6000. Occasionally, I get an error code when turning it on. Solution is to power off/on again and it goes away. It has never given an error code in the middle of a ride.

Needless to say, the e-MTB is pushed much harder while mountain biking than the cargo bike.


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## creativefletch (Dec 1, 2014)

Where a lot of the issues occur is when manufactures use the Shimano motor but then their own battery. The YT Decoy has proven to have intermittent cut-outs due to compatibility between the motor and a battery. As mentioned by MTBBIKER models like the Intense Tazer use a complete Shimano system so there is 100% compatibility. I did have an issue with a Shimano battery where after 3 uses it just refused to take a charge. I got in touch with Shimano and they had a new battery to my door in two days.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

vcyclist said:


> Is there a list of issues or no-issues that people have had with the Shimano package? I would like to see real world comparison with Shimano vs the Specialized motor and battery. Reliability and the ability to upgrade without huge mods are important to me.
> It seems there are less issues with the Shimano products vs others.


Read some more.
Shimano is the name of the first motor.
At the second it is shishimano
At the third you do not want to know
There are more than 2 manufacturers.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

creativefletch said:


> Where a lot of the issues occur is when manufactures use the Shimano motor but then their own battery. The YT Decoy has proven to have intermittent cut-outs due to compatibility between the motor and a battery. As mentioned by MTBBIKER models like the Intense Tazer use a complete Shimano system so there is 100% compatibility. I did have an issue with a Shimano battery where after 3 uses it just refused to take a charge. I got in touch with Shimano and they had a new battery to my door in two days.


Interesting observation, but Pivot Shuttles have been known to have issues as well, and they use a genuine Shimano battery.

It would be interesting to see if Fezzari or Commencal, who also use Shimano batteries, have been seeing issues. Focus had their own battery with a Shimano motor, but they appear to have pulled out of the US market. There were a few people on here who had them though. Any Focus or Fezzari or Commencal owners want to weigh in?


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## motoguru2007 (Dec 13, 2007)

I have a Decoy with shimano motor and zero problems. The most common shimano error is W013..that's when you turn it on while feet on cranks. Shimano does not want you to lose control by not being ready for that massive torque I guess


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

When riders need a second, a third motor i think they do not focus on the battery.


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## brado (May 13, 2010)

The wife and I have 2 commencals w shimano. I since last fall, I new this spring. Quite a bit of hard riding on them. No failures, never cuts out when riding. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Acousticmood (Nov 1, 2016)

Any idea where I can buy a replacement battery for the Shimano steps e-800?
Thanks,


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Acousticmood said:


> Any idea where I can buy a replacement battery for the Shimano steps e-800?
> Thanks,


Find out what specific model it is and ask your local bike shop.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

In short, the batteries degrade MUCH more rapidly than Shimano claims (supposedly the batteries will be at 60% capacity after 1000 charge cycles), but real world data suggests much worse durability.

Also, Shimano software is sketchy at best. Can be a real gamble updating firmware over bluetooth, for example, and most new versions of Shimano's mobile apps are buggy. I would recommend getting an SM-PCE02 interface and updating your bike from a PC, plus you'll get better diagnostic and monitoring capabilities.


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## Acousticmood (Nov 1, 2016)

Where do I get the SM-PCE02 of which you speak?


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Acousticmood said:


> Where do I get the SM-PCE02 of which you speak?


Here's a PCE1 on eBay:

Shimano PC Linkage Device Sm-pce1 Di2 Steps for sale online | eBay

and here's a PCE02:

Shimano SM-PCE02 PC Interface for Di2 + STePS | eBay

Here's a summary of the differences:

Di2 Non-series components SM-PCE1 - PC Linkage Device details (bettershifting.com)


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## Acousticmood (Nov 1, 2016)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Here's a PCE1 on eBay:
> 
> Shimano PC Linkage Device Sm-pce1 Di2 Steps for sale online | eBay
> 
> ...


Thanks


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## Ridnw/bear (Jul 11, 2005)

I have had 3 Intense Tazers and have had some error messages over the last couple seasons. As others have said, the most common is on start up if you turn on while the bike is moving. The other error codes have been from dirty electrical contacts between the battery and the battery mount. This usually occurs when going up a steep hill and the battery is supplying max amperage to the motor. Using some electrical contact cleaner and a Q-tip on the battery mount posts has always corrected this issue. Also, I have heard that using a dielectric paste on the contacts will keep this from happening as well.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

My bike has the STEPS 8000 motor and it's been totally reliable, but the power delivery in "TURBO" is difficult to modulate, it requires so little rider input to get full power that you end up randomly surging forwards. Also the drive take up is not smooth

ln the other two modes, ECO and TRAIL it's fine, l had to turn TURBO down to "medium" in the app to make it useable.

l had a Bosch powered ebike back in 2016 and that was smoother than this motor.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

lotusdriver said:


> My bike has the STEPS 8000 motor and it's been totally reliable, but the power delivery in "TURBO" is difficult to modulate, it requires so little rider input to get full power that you end up randomly surging forwards. Also the drive take up is not smooth
> 
> ln the other two modes, ECO and TRAIL it's fine, l had to turn TURBO down to "medium" in the app to make it useable.
> 
> l had a Bosch powered ebike back in 2016 and that was smoother than this motor.


You are not alone. 
Maybe a problem is some customers/riders are kind of looking for a motorcycle with a big battery to drain it.
Since last july i enjoy my 2020 Giant/Yamaha and recently i asked on an other forum how people(on a Giant subforum)
use their assist selection. We have 6 options, 5 different levels and one that decides depending on 6 sensors.
Many avoid the _automatic mode_ and many use the max assist rarely, i am one of those. 
To please many riders many manufacturers have some mix of bike feel and some motorcycle feel.
We see it with options over 800Wh.
I am glad in 9 months it is free of issue and the max assist is not the reason i ride an Ebike.


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