# XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

No 10-42t makes XTR M9000 a loser for me.

Okay, Shimano doesn't really understand 1x yet.
Or perhaps they do but are too stubborn to suck it up and follow SRAM.

Fine, whateverz.

Aaaanyways, I highly prefer Shimano shifters and derailleurs.... what are the chances XTR 11-speed cassettes will have the same cog spacing as XX1?

XTR derailleur/shifter + X01 cogs (because they are bad ass black)

Will it work?
Let's start speculation yapping and rumor mongering.


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

Fake Rumor #1 - Mechanical XTR M9000 will not be be compatible with XX1 cogs but M9000 Di2 will be reprogrammable.


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

Fake Rumor #2 - Jtek will introduce a Shiftmate cable pull adapter to allow XTR M9000 to work with XX1 cogs.


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

bump


----------



## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

And does a xx1 derailleur works with the xtr 11 speed cassett?


----------



## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

*Bumpitybumpbump*



aosty said:


> bump


How come I didn't see this earlier and just what are you trying to accomplish my good lad?


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Jmac!


----------



## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

No SS for me now, can we still be friends?


----------



## Dry Side (Jun 7, 2011)

I have ordered XTR M9000 for my Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper HT. I will run a Wolftooth 34T chain ring and the M9000 11T - 40T cassette. All the range I need for Central Oregon trails. I like how the cassette will fit on my existing hub.

FWIW I have been using XTR 1x10 with a 32T chainring and a 11T - 36T cassette w/o any problems. The 11 speed will just give a larger range with no downside.


----------



## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

*Question*



Dry Side said:


> I have ordered XTR M9000 for my Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper HT. I will run a Wolftooth 34T chain ring and the M9000 11T - 40T cassette. All the range I need for Central Oregon trails. I like how the cassette will fit on my existing hub.
> 
> FWIW I have been using XTR 1x10 with a 32T chainring and a 11T - 36T cassette w/o any problems. The 11 speed will just give a larger range with no downside.


So doesn't require an XD type driver? Any idea if a DT 240 will accept the cassette?


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

JMac47 said:


> So doesn't require an XD type driver? Any idea if a DT 240 will accept the cassette?


XTR M9000 does not need a new cassette driver.... advantage is no hub changes needed.

XD driver (XX1/X01) is available for DT240.... advantage is 10t cog.


----------



## Barbs (May 13, 2012)

So back to the OP, does anyone know yet if the xtr 11 speed shifter/rear mech will work with xx1 cassette?


----------



## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Barbs said:


> So back to the OP, does anyone know yet if the xtr 11 speed shifter/rear mech will work with xx1 cassette?


Me thynx the OP should buy the stuff and see!


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

The OP hasn't seen the stuff in the wild yet.


----------



## J_R_A (Dec 15, 2011)

I was asking a similar question myself….I wonder if you could use a XO (10 sp), XO1 shifter and an XTR cassette? I was wondering because I foresee a XT 40-11 cassette sooner than a 1170 type. 

There just is not much room for things to go once you'e gotten to 11 speeds and we know that an XO (10 sp) will handle 40t like a champ. 11sp SRAM, Shimano and Campy work just fine right?


----------



## jimification (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm wondering about this too....XTR11 shifter, XTR11 Rmech, XX1 cassette - you get a bigger range, the cassette is 70g lighter, clears mud better and should last longer.

I think the sprocket spacing is the same on both systems, so the questions would be:

1) Can the XTR11 rear mech go far enough out to line up with the 10T XX1 sprocket? 

2) Can it cope with the extra 2 teeth over an 11-40 XTR cassette?

Looks like the release of M9000 has been delayed until mid-Oct so we probably won't find out until then.


----------



## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

jimification said:


> I'm wondering about this too....XTR11 shifter, XTR11 Rmech, XX1 cassette - you get a bigger range, the cassette is 70g lighter, clears mud better and should last longer.
> 
> I think the sprocket spacing is the same on both systems, so the questions would be:
> 
> ...


i read somewhere that the 11sp shimano has the same spacing as a 10sp and uses a 10 sp chain. The 11th cog is dished 2mm over towards the spokes to make it fit. Sram 11 sp uses a narrower spacing/chain than 10sp.

10t? Shimano Capreo / Canfield Microdrive and that Leonardi cassette went down to 9t.


----------



## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

^ There are reasons why Sram onky went to 10, as friction really becomes apparent once you get smaller than 10.....well, below 11 really but the increase was too much after 10. This is something trackies know a lot about, and goes into the cog choices for front and back. They try and put something no smaller than a 14 on the back if possible.


----------



## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

AlexRandall said:


> ^ There are reasons why Sram onky went to 10, as friction really becomes apparent once you get smaller than 10.....well, below 11 really but the increase was too much after 10. This is something trackies know a lot about, and goes into the cog choices for front and back. They try and put something no smaller than a 14 on the back if possible.


According to the Bike radar article the 9t caused a polygon effect, pulsing at the pedals. Even the 10t supposedly needed a special cut to the teeth to mitigate the feeling.


----------



## chukko (Sep 12, 2014)

Ratt said:


> i read somewhere that the 11sp shimano has the same spacing as a 10sp and uses a 10 sp chain. The 11th cog is dished 2mm over towards the spokes to make it fit. Sram 11 sp uses a narrower spacing/chain than 10sp.
> 
> 10t? Shimano Capreo / Canfield Microdrive and that Leonardi cassette went down to 9t.


As i understand it (based on explanation that it is possible because at higher diameters spokes are further away from the freehub) - the 11sp Shimano is wider than 10sp but fits 10sp freehub - i.e. the 11th cog sits "above" the end of the freehub, but sprocket spacing wise - they are different to 10sp.
Also - i found at least one report that Ultegra Di2 derailleur works with X01 cassette just fine - which would indicate spacing of 1sp Shimano matches SRAM


----------



## chukko (Sep 12, 2014)

jimification said:


> I'm wondering about this too....XTR11 shifter, XTR11 Rmech, XX1 cassette - you get a bigger range, the cassette is 70g lighter, clears mud better and should last longer.
> 
> I think the sprocket spacing is the same on both systems, so the questions would be:
> 
> ...


See First Impressions: Shimano XTR Di2 & Mechanical Mountain Bike Groups for Damie's report - he uses Ultegra Di2 11sp mech with X01 cassette.

As far as your questions go:
1) I believe the size difference between 10 and 11 cogs is negligable - and even if it was bigger, on high gears the chain is loose, so even if the cage was further, this shouldnt be an issue (if my understanding is correct)

2) See all the manufacturers of 42t cog extensions (Wolf, OneUp, General Lee) - thy all claim 42t works fine with most of the shifters (on 50% of Shimano models you need a longer B-screw). So i would assume XTR would not be any different - if road XTR works, trail XTR should probably too).

Anyways thats the option i am most likely going to try. I am also tempted by 10 speed 42t cassette, but the smallest cog would be 11t only - so this would reduce the range of the drivetrain even more.


----------



## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

10t does in fact lose a lot of efficiency to friction compared to 11t (and 11t is poor compared to 12t).

But for most mtb riders, the 10t will typically be used in lighter pedaling situations (slight downhills, etc.) where wind resistance and other factors will likely trump this issue.


----------



## chukko (Sep 12, 2014)

@kosmo - yes, i am aware - but i am not a racer, my most frequent rides is steep trails up, then nice trail/gravel dovn .. 
i dont even remember when was it last time i used 44t ring on my old bike, 34x11 was also very rare. 
I want to have 10T as kind of a minimal improvement (5kmh delta at cadence 150) for rare cases of road descent. I would survive with 11t, but if there is a better option, then i want to try it. Worst case it will cost me some money (sell XX1, get shimano freehub).


----------



## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

^^^ Agreed, and sorry for the derail. I'm with you, in that I'd like Shimano shifter/derailleur/chain paired with the 10/42 gearing of the SRAM cassette.

In fact, when the first XTR bike shows up at my LBS in October, there are about 5 of us waiting to slap a XX1 equipped rear wheel into it and see how it shifts!


----------



## chukko (Sep 12, 2014)

Btw - on the tangent - i realize Shimano could never bring cassette with 10t cog, as this would not fit into the current hyperglide freehubs. The only option seems to be using DR (hell would freeze first) - or they would introduce their own system.
I can rather imagine they would go for larger cogs on the opposite side to compensate.


----------



## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

^^^ I'm still hoping Shimano comes to their senses and releases XT cassettes in 11-42!


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Here's a crazy idea...
Has anyone looked at a different diameter pulley for the XX1/X01 to get a different cable pull ratio so the rear mech would work w/ a 10spd Shimano shifter? Seems like a pretty low hanging fruit, or am I missing something?

Edit: rethunk this...not nearly so simple.


----------



## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

So far nobody has given a measurement that I've seen for either Shimano or Sram 11 speed MTB cassette spacing, so IMHO it's all hearsay and wild surmise so far.

What we do know:
1. All the road 11 speed systems use the same sprocket spacing, and wheels can be interchanged
2. Sram 10 speed road and MTB derailleurs use the same cable pull, but XX1 is different, and not compatible; I have no idea if 11 speed Sram road stuff is compatible in any way with their 10 speed road stuff
3. Shimano 10 and 11 speed road cable pull is significantly different and RDs cannot be interchanged
4. Shimano 10 speed road and MTB cassettes use the same spacing, but the cable pull for road and MTB 10 speed derailleurs is incompatible
5. Rumour has it that XX1 works okay with 10 speed rear wheels, implying it uses 10 speed spacing, but with an extra cog cantilevered out over the spokes
6. XTR 11 speed cassettes fit on 8/9/10 speed bodies, but cog spacing is unknown as yet. I'm hoping it's the same as 11 speed road, and that cable pull for Shimano 11 speed road and MTB is the same - unlikely!

Until we can measure and/or play with these things the only option is baseless speculation... :nono:


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

It works fine according to a recent mtbr member post.


----------



## oaklandish (May 7, 2011)

^ Yep, according to this post #159

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...ranks/new-2015-shimano-xtr-1x11-899297-7.html

Very good news for drivetrain tinkerers and anyone who wants to customize their builds for the best set-up they might need/prefer.


----------



## Fat Fingers (Aug 3, 2013)

I'm less concerned with 40T vs 42T. What I want to know is, if I buy xtr cassette, shifter and derailleur, can I use existing xt 2x10 crank arms and what chain ring would I need to go 1x11. Also, will sram X11 X01 cranks be compatible with xtr? I read earlier in this thread xtr 1x11 may use 10 speed chain so that might effect crank and chainring options?


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

oaklandish said:


> ^ Yep, according to this post #159
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...ranks/new-2015-shimano-xtr-1x11-899297-7.html
> 
> Very good news for drivetrain tinkerers and anyone who wants to customize their builds for the best set-up they might need/prefer.


Sweet!

Slightly better link to post... http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...5-shimano-xtr-1x11-899297-7.html#post11461738


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

$244 delivered is what a few locals paid for the M9000 rear D and right trigger after the good news of the XX1 cassette being compatible.


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

westin said:


> $244 delivered is what a few locals paid for the M9000 rear D and right trigger after the good news of the XX1 cassette being compatible.


From where and have they shipped or received yet?

Thanks.


----------



## thatSAMazing (Aug 6, 2014)

If I were to order the Shimano to go 1x11 with X01 Cassette, should I go gs or sgs?


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

GS derailleur


----------



## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

I'm very happy to hear the spacing is the same. I also love the range and gear ratios provided by the XX1/XO1 cassette, but I MUCH prefer my previous XTR shifter and derailleur vs my current XO1. I have messed around with my shifter setup constantly since getting the XO1 group, and I just can't get it to feel as natural and comfortable as my previous XTR M980 shifter. I even thought about trying to modify the thumb lever on the XO1 shifter to allow easier access to the downshift lever. Now that it seems to be confirmed that the two systems are compatible as soon as I can get my hands on the new XTR bits the XO1 shifter and rear derailleur are coming off.


----------



## artishouk (Jan 28, 2014)

Anyone else has tried it? Or New thought of how it´s been working on a longer test?


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Handful on the forum reporting perfect shifting.


----------



## artishouk (Jan 28, 2014)

aosty said:


> From where and have they shipped or received yet?
> 
> Thanks.


Very interested to know that also.

@westin: thanks for the reply, but do you refer to other threads or this one (I´ve read completely)


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

One of the riders using XTR derailleur and shifter with XX1 cassette: New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11 - Page 7- Mtbr.com



artishouk said:


> Very interested to know that also.
> 
> @westin: thanks for the reply, but do you refer to other threads or this one (I´ve read completely)


----------



## evo233 (Jun 13, 2007)

Did a quick test in the stand today with a demo bike with an X01 cassette w/ XTR shifter/derailleur. Shifted through the gears no problem, didn't even have to adjust the limit screws or B-tension. Guessing based on the link above shifts fine under load no problem too but hoping to test it for my self in the next week or so. Shimano shifting with SRAM range would be a pretty sweet set-up.


----------



## james_95 (Oct 29, 2009)

*XTR 11 speed with XX1*

I am currently running the new XTR with SRAM and it works flawlessly and super crisp!
My setup:
XX1 crank
XX1 chain
X01 cassette
XTR M9000 RD (GS cage)
XTR M9000 shifter


----------



## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Wow nice setup.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

S works crank, wolftooth dm 30t ring, kmc 10sp chain, xx1 cassette and xtr gs & shifter. Perfection.


----------



## Load (Nov 15, 2014)

mounted rear derailleur shifter + cassette sram x01.
it seems that everything is working fine.
field test tomorrow.


----------



## Load (Nov 15, 2014)

sorry...


----------



## maccair9 (Apr 3, 2009)

Been following this thread for a while but would like to know people thoughts on being able to use a xtr triple on the front with this set up as I use the same bike for xc and road riding and would like as big a range as possible.


----------



## cbj2012 (Aug 31, 2012)

Installed yesterday. I have only ridden it around in the local park a little but so far it feel nice. Also changed the cable routing to minimize the friction in the cables.


----------



## artishouk (Jan 28, 2014)

cbj2012 said:


> Installed yesterday. I have only ridden it around in the local park a little but so far it feel nice. Also changed the cable routing to minimize the friction in the cables.


Hi cbj2012, looks nice! Congrats!!
Could you tell us where did you buy them from?


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Not that you asked me, but here are a few options. Coupons may or may not apply at this time:

xtr m9000 | Chain Reaction Cycles

$95 delivered xtr 9000 right shifter: Shimano XTR SL-M9000 Trigger Shifters | Backcountry.com

GS 9000 rear D: Shimano XTR M9000 GS-Rear Derailleur 11-Speed (Medium Cage) [IRDM9000GS] | Bicycles - AMain.com


----------



## cbj2012 (Aug 31, 2012)

I got back country to price match with Chain Reaction Cycles for the shifter. Got the derailleur from bikediscount.de and the cassette and front ring from eBay.

The Dollar is getting even stronger and Shimano prices are going to drop even more in 2015 in Europe. CRC has free shipping but bikediscount unfortunately does not.

Everything came in original boxes so it was not OEM stuff or taken off bikes.


----------



## Jose Antonio Azurara (Mar 24, 2007)

Anybody installed 2x11 with XTR 11spd shifter/rear derailleur with XX1 cassette?

thanks


----------



## artishouk (Jan 28, 2014)

On ebay it´s starting to appear some good deals comparables to prices on CNC. Maybe in one more month there´ll more of them.


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

Jose Antonio Azurara said:


> Anybody installed 2x11 with XTR 11spd shifter/rear derailleur with XX1 cassette?
> 
> thanks


This combo should work just fine as well. You'll get slightly different chainline, but nothing out of ordinary.


----------



## Breeze91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Cbj2012 that is the exact combo I am looking at for my GT force carbon pro as well. Be real interested to hear how it goes in the first couple of rides. Subscribed.


----------



## cbj2012 (Aug 31, 2012)

I still have not been able to ride the bike. Did you see my post about the change cable routing?


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

I tried it just to see. It's horrifically gappy; exactly what shimano was trying to avoid with their 11sp cassette AND crankset with 10 teeth jump. A 10-42 with 12 or 14 teeth difference in big rings (what most have) compounds the cassette gaps. In 1x a 10-42 is superior. In 2x a regular 10sp cassette is better if you don't want to spring for m9000.


Jose Antonio Azurara said:


> Anybody installed 2x11 with XTR 11spd shifter/rear derailleur with XX1 cassette?
> 
> thanks


----------



## Jose Antonio Azurara (Mar 24, 2007)

westin said:


> I tried it just to see. It's horrifically gappy; exactly what shimano was trying to avoid with their 11sp cassette AND crankset with 10 teeth jump. A 10-42 with 12 or 14 teeth difference in big rings (what most have) compounds the cassette gaps. In 1x a 10-42 is superior. In 2x a regular 10sp cassette is better if you don't want to spring for m9000.


Thanks Westin for your advice.

I´m planning to use 26-36 because Shimano advise 10 teeth jump.

As described in this forum I shall use Medium Cage derailleur.

Do you believe it will work?

I want to use 26 on the mountains with a large slope or in carrousel way.

I´ll use 36 in flat roads with some easy climbs.

With this configuration I have "2 times 1X11" and I avoid change many times chainring during my trips.

In the XCC race (with 1x11) they change chainring according to the circuit profile.

Thanks


----------



## chadadally (Jul 8, 2013)

*X01 Cassette with XTR9000 components works!!!*

I just installed the new XTR9000 dérailleur and shifter onto a X01 cassette, KMC X11SL DLC chain, XX1 cranks with AbsoluteBlack chainring. Best shifting and gearing combo. 
I've been running XX1 two years and this combo is far better. 
As far as concerns of chain wrap, etc. you get just as much chainwrap on a cassette as XTR does on its cassette since 17 or 19 or 36, etc are the same number of teeth, diameter, and general location on any cassette, so it performs excellent and as good as the XTR cassette with XTR derailleur. Maybe the XX1 has more wrap than XTR but that is a different topic. 
Precision and feel of shifter is better and doesn't require or allow the feathering play like XX1 does between gears. XTR just clicks up and down. Only difference I noticed was a harder shift rather than a softer/silent shift. But the hard shift may actually lengthen life.
And with the new XTR brakes it's a great clean bar too. My bike is now full Ninja with the color scheme of gray and black that the X01 cassette, KMC chain, Absolute Black ring, and XTR derailleur. You won't see me coming to pass you. Photos below. 
One complaint, but not related to XTR XX1. The chainline of XX1 cranks is 49-50mm from center. The cassette center is ~40mm from center. So when in your low/larger cogs, you have an angled chainline. But that is just a side effect of cranks pushing rings out to clear wide chain stays on wide carbon frames for wide wheels. Noise is not bad though.


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

As the OP of this thread, I would like to confirm, belatedly, XTR M9000 works great with XX1 and X01 cassettes.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

That looks sweet, I think I'm sold!


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

Chadadally - Is that a baby StrongHold cabinet hiding back there!? 



chadadally said:


> View attachment 959441


----------



## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm leaning toward this setup I think, thanks aosty.


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Has anyone used the Xtr single chainset with x0 drivetrain have u encountered some problems?


----------



## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

aosty said:


> As the OP of this thread, I would like to confirm, belatedly, XTR M9000 works great with XX1 and X01 cassettes.


'Belatedly'? Really. And did I forget you had a plastic frame now? Inquiring mind.....


----------



## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Jmac! 
That's a Jet and this is a RLT.


----------



## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

So clean!


----------



## lnd (Jan 3, 2005)

Please forgive me if this has been answered previously. I have tried the search function: has anyone confirmed that the XTR 11 spd cassette works with the XX1/X01 shifter/r. der.?

I saw a couple of posts where this was asked, but didn't seem to see any definite responses. Thx.


----------



## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Chadadally, this is not a criticizism of you, but to say it shifts way better is slightly biased. You would need to compare new system to new system, not your slightly worn system with used cable/housing? Anyway, thanks for the write up, as I am sure the new XTR, IS smoother, and I hope to try it out too. Enjoy!


----------



## jayoutside (Mar 21, 2004)

are you running a shimano 11 sp chain or a SRAM 11 speed chain?

my new bike has XTR 1x11, and I'm really wishing I had the gear range from SRAM's 10-42

thanks!


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

jayoutside said:


> are you running a shimano 11 sp chain or a SRAM 11 speed chain?
> 
> my new bike has XTR 1x11, and I'm really wishing I had the gear range from SRAM's 10-42
> 
> thanks!


Running SRAM XX1 chain.

In your case you should be able to replace the cassette (assuming your hub can take XD driver) and you will have SRAM 10-42 gearing.


----------



## chadadally (Jul 8, 2013)

aosty said:


> Chadadally - Is that a baby StrongHold cabinet hiding back there!?


Yes it is a Stronghold.


----------



## chadadally (Jul 8, 2013)

hoolie said:


> Chadadally, this is not a criticizism of you, but to say it shifts way better is slightly biased. You would need to compare new system to new system, not your slightly worn system with used cable/housing? Anyway, thanks for the write up, as I am sure the new XTR, IS smoother, and I hope to try it out too. Enjoy!


Not sure where I said any of this was used? I used the XX1 that was new and stock with this bike. Then I purchased new XTR dérailleur, new XTR shifter, new KMC chain, new X01 cassette, new Absolute Black chainring, and the new cable and housing that came with shifter. So it was a new to new comparison from experience, and as of today the broke in to broke in experience is also better. So in short the XTR is better than the XX1, in my opinion, new and used. But I have not used the XTR cassette. So no judgement on that just the dérailleur and shifter. It's better on the SRAM cassette than SRAM is, new or worn. Guess I didn't change the crank arms but really...it's still a fair new to new and worn to worn comparison. Plus I have used XX1 for over a year, the XTR shifting is hands down superior in performance, now that I have used it for a month. Not even a hesitation even under load. No popping under load like SRAM.


----------



## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

chadadally said:


> Not sure where I said any of this was used? I used the XX1 that was new and stock with this bike. Then I purchased new XTR dérailleur, new XTR shifter, new KMC chain, new X01 cassette, new Absolute Black chainring, and the new cable and housing that came with shifter. So it was a new to new comparison from experience, and as of today the broke in to broke in experience is also better. So in short the XTR is better than the XX1, in my opinion, new and used. But I have not used the XTR cassette. So no judgement on that just the dérailleur and shifter. It's better on the SRAM cassette than SRAM is, new or worn. Guess I didn't change the crank arms but really...it's still a fair new to new and worn to worn comparison. Plus I have used XX1 for over a year, the XTR shifting is hands down superior in performance, now that I have used it for a month. Not even a hesitation even under load. No popping under load like SRAM.


Sounds like a legit comparison to me.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

My M9000 derailleur showed up today and it just oozes quality. I sold off my XX1 derailleur and shifter, bought the M9000 set brand new and put about $40 in my pocket. I didn't really have any complaints with the XX1 derailleur or shifter but I do slightly prefer the action of Shimano. Side by side the XX1 derailleur seems cheap and plasticky in comparison. Only complaint with M9000 is that the clutch switch is plastic now instead of anodized ALU.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

Another satisfied customer here - I am running 2*11 22/32 on a 29'er. I started with XTR shifter, der, cassette and chain. 

Ran it for a week or two and then put a 10-42 X01 cassette on. I think it might actually shift better than the XTR cassette. Also the XD driver for my DT Swiss hub was 25g lighter and the cassette was 70g lighter for a nice 4oz weight savings too. 

Did a big mountain ride last weekend and the shifting and gear range were sweet. 
611% gearing ratio.


----------



## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

I'm happy to see that this setup is working well, and I've ordered the parts. I was initially drawn by the possibility of mounting the xtr shifter to my i-spec b xtr brakes. Of course, Shimano needed yet another i-spec, so that won't work. Oh well, at least I explored it before ordering a new i-spec shifter!

I'd initially planned to go with the One-up/Radr Cage setup, but then I got a great deal on a set of wheels with an xd driver, so I made the jump.


----------



## Jose Antonio Azurara (Mar 24, 2007)

I think you shall not use less than 26 with 42. Otherwise you can damage your rear hub. I read this information in many places.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I ran 22/40 using a wolftooth cog on a DT Swiss hub for almost the whole of last season and didn't have any problems. The freehub splines weren't even marred.
I weigh 200lbs and ride big climbs every weekend. So there's a data point. 
I did destroy a Novatec rear hub before that but IMO it was a terrible design with a pressed in freewheel holder that wasn't pinned or anything and it started slipping on me. 

Due to traction and cadence, I'm not sure you actually put the highest torque into the cassette when you are in the little ring, I would think you actually see higher real world loads with a bigger front ring when you are desperately cranking into it at low climbing speeds.


----------



## BJF (Apr 11, 2005)

I'm running this set up and for the most part am happy but I have a KMC chain. Seems loud. Any thoughts?

What is everyone else running?


----------



## JohnnyP5 (Aug 3, 2009)

*42/28 Chain Rings With XTR Front Derailleur?*

Is anybody running 42/28 chainrings with a XTR front derailleur (mechanical or Di2)? Or some combo of chainrings with a bigger than 10-tooth difference? The front derailleur is only spec'd to have a 10-tooth difference. I'm interested in running a SRAM crankset that I already have with Rotor 42/28 chainrings that I also already have.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

JohnnyP5 said:


> Is anybody running 42/28 chainrings with a XTR front derailleur (mechanical or Di2)? Or some combo of chainrings with a bigger than 10-tooth difference? The front derailleur is only spec'd to have a 10-tooth difference. I'm interested in running a SRAM crankset that I already have with Rotor 42/28 chainrings that I also already have.


If you need gearing range that wide, you had probably better stick with 3x10. It might be doable but the shifting performance will be crap


----------



## BJF (Apr 11, 2005)

Just ordered a wolf direct mount ring for my race face cranks. Their ring is 49mm chainline instead of the 51mm that race face and shimano use. I think this will be better in the larger cogs regardless of using a sram or shimano cassette. I dont get why shimano uses this chainline with a 1x11. Will report my findings.


----------



## randan (May 18, 2005)

I was told that the Shimano CN HG900 chain should work/shift smoother than the KMC X11SL chain. I will give it a try for sure.


----------



## BJF (Apr 11, 2005)

Heard the shimano chain wont play nice with a sram cassette


----------



## randan (May 18, 2005)

Hhm dunno? A guy in a german forum tried both, KMC and Shimano chains and he liked the Shimano way better.


----------



## BJF (Apr 11, 2005)

This is what I read about shimano chains and sram cassettes:

I would stick with a SRAM chain as long as you use the SRAM cassette. I really noticed this with the SRAM XG-999 cassette, the Shimano XTR chain caused a lot of damage to the teeth on the big alloy cog, and it would jump off the big cog on backpedal.


----------



## hypokondriak (Oct 18, 2008)

I started with the Shimano chain and the KMC 11 speed link on my x01 cassette. I was having sporadic issues where the chain would hop and I spent a ton of time trying to get it right. I've been installing and setting up my own derailleurs for years so I don't think it was me.

Long story short I threw on a Sram xx1 chain and all problems went away instantly. So while I can't say it with absolute certainty it feels to me that the Shimano chain is a bit more temperamental with the x01 cassette. Enough so that even if I spent more time trying to get it right I wasn't terribly wild about consistency over the long run in the field.


----------



## K9-Usurper (Jun 12, 2007)

I know this is slightly off topic, but has anyone tried using a XTR 11 speed rear derailleur with a XTR 10 speed cassette and 10 speed shifter? My current rear derailleur is broken and I'm wondering if I can replace with 11 speed to prep for future 11 speed conversion.


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

K9-Usurper said:


> I know this is slightly off topic, but has anyone tried using a XTR 11 speed rear derailleur with a XTR 10 speed cassette and 10 speed shifter? My current rear derailleur is broken and I'm wondering if I can replace with 11 speed to prep for future 11 speed conversion.


Yes, that should work. I am running an XT 11-36 10 speed cassette with Wolftooth 16t and 42t cogs, XTR 10 speed shifter and XTR M9000 11 speed derailleur and it works great. Shifts better than my previous 10 speed XTR derailleur with a Rad cage. I don't know how adjusting for a narrower range cassette will affect the shifting since the 11 speed derailleur is designed for 11-40, but I expect it would be fine.


----------



## K9-Usurper (Jun 12, 2007)

Thanks for the reply. I was actually running a 10 speed XTR rear derailleur with the Radr cage when the derailleur wrapped around and ended up inside my wheel (breaking a few spokes in the process). Ironically, this happened cruising up Hines Mill in Demo, as opposed to flying down a DH. Made me question using these ghetto style 1 x 42 conversions. I have a long cage 11 speed xtr rear derailleur on order. Hoping for the best!


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

K9-Usurper said:


> Thanks for the reply. I was actually running a 10 speed XTR rear derailleur with the Radr cage when the derailleur wrapped around and ended up inside my wheel (breaking a few spokes in the process). Ironically, this happened cruising up Hines Mill in Demo, as opposed to flying down a DH. Made me question using these ghetto style 1 x 42 conversions. I have a long cage 11 speed xtr rear derailleur on order. Hoping for the best!


Before you install a new $200 derailleur on your bike, make sure you put on a brand new derailleur hanger (if you haven't already). Take your time setting the limit screws and dialing in the shifting, it'll pay off in the long run.

On a side note, I tried a 10 speed XTR shifter on an 11 speed M9000 derailleur and an XX1 cassette just for shits and it didn't index correctly. May or may not have worked on a 10 speed cassette though.

Good luck!


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

K9-Usurper said:


> Thanks for the reply. I was actually running a 10 speed XTR rear derailleur with the Radr cage when the derailleur wrapped around and ended up inside my wheel (breaking a few spokes in the process). Ironically, this happened cruising up Hines Mill in Demo, as opposed to flying down a DH. Made me question using these ghetto style 1 x 42 conversions. I have a long cage 11 speed xtr rear derailleur on order. Hoping for the best!


It seems like it usually is a climb when a catastrophic derailleur-wheel munching happens, the cage is at its closest to the spokes and it doesn't take as much of a problem for it to happen. I haven't seen it on a 1x10 yet, but it is almost always caused by debris or something getting bent and/or a derailleur adjustment problem. The most recent one I witnessed was a 3x9 and the rim cracked under the rim strip all the way around the wheel and caused enough wheel flex that it grabbed the derailleur on a short steep climb. If you are already running an 11-42t cassette then you should be fine with the M9000, I am guessing you needed a new hanger?, and get the limit screws dialed in. One question though, why are you going with a long cage? The GS cage is plenty for an 11-42t 1x10 setup.


----------



## brusko74 (Aug 7, 2012)

XO1 cogs, M9000 RD and shifter, KMC 11 speed chain. Works for me.


----------



## K9-Usurper (Jun 12, 2007)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> It seems like it usually is a climb when a catastrophic derailleur-wheel munching happens, the cage is at its closest to the spokes and it doesn't take as much of a problem for it to happen. I haven't seen it on a 1x10 yet, but it is almost always caused by debris or something getting bent and/or a derailleur adjustment problem. The most recent one I witnessed was a 3x9 and the rim cracked under the rim strip all the way around the wheel and caused enough wheel flex that it grabbed the derailleur on a short steep climb. If you are already running an 11-42t cassette then you should be fine with the M9000, I am guessing you needed a new hanger?, and get the limit screws dialed in. One question though, why are you going with a long cage? The GS cage is plenty for an 11-42t 1x10 setup.


I was running 1x10 (11-42) and spinning in the 3rd largest cog (32T maybe?) when the derailleur wrapped. I get that there are many factors that could contribute to the derailleur wrapping around, though I didn't notice my hanger being bent prior to the crash. As far as why long cage? I didn't do tons of research... just assumed I should probably go long cage since that's what was necessary to get the 42T working with 10speed setup. Also, considering Shimano didn't anticipate folks going to 42T, seemed safer to go with the long cage.


----------



## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Slightly off topic, but I'm switching a bike over from 10-speed XT to 11 speed XTR, with the XTR derailleur and cassette (not SRAM) and a KMC X11SL chain - and for some reason, the chain and the top jockey pulley do NOT seem to want to get along. Doing some internet searching brought me here where I see several folks pairing the X11SL and the M9000 derailleur. No similar problems? The upper jockey pulley has taller teeth, but not the narrow/wide that I've seen on the SRAM 1x derailleurs, which was the first thing I thought. While it shifts okay, it's noisy and nowhere near smooth, since the jockey pulley seems too wide for the narrow plates of the KMC chain. Any thoughts on this? Will probably try a 10 speed chain to see how that works, but just surprised that this combo doesn't work for me, I've been running KMC chains with Shimano drivetrains for a while now.

If it matters, it's a RF cinch crankset with a Wolf Tooth spiderless ring.


----------



## BJF (Apr 11, 2005)

I have the same set up and the KMC chain didn't work with the shimano stuff. It was noisy. I switched to an XTR chain and its all good. Why would you go to a 10 speed chain with an 11 speed drivetrain?


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

K9-Usurper said:


> I was running 1x10 (11-42) and spinning in the 3rd largest cog (32T maybe?) when the derailleur wrapped. I get that there are many factors that could contribute to the derailleur wrapping around, though I didn't notice my hanger being bent prior to the crash. As far as why long cage? I didn't do tons of research... just assumed I should probably go long cage since that's what was necessary to get the 42T working with 10speed setup. Also, considering Shimano didn't anticipate folks going to 42T, seemed safer to go with the long cage.


I am running a GS (medium) cage M9000 with my 11-42t setup, a medium cage is generally the recommended configuration for 1x10 and I am very happy with it. There is no need for a long cage, it is just more exposure to damage and slightly less chain wrap in the small cogs with no benefits over a medium cage. If you were running a RADr cage previously, then you were effectively running a slightly shorter than medium cage. And the RAD cage only works with medium cage derailleurs. The long cage will work, but I would swap it for a medium cage if possible before installing it.


----------



## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

I would try the 10 speed chain because it's wider and the problem that is causing the noise is the upper jockey pulley seems too wide for the 11 speed KMC chain. I don't have an XTR chain on hand (yes, I can order one) but I do have many 10 speed chains on hand.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

cmh said:


> I would try the 10 speed chain because it's wider and the problem that is causing the noise is the upper jockey pulley seems too wide for the 11 speed KMC chain. I don't have an XTR chain on hand (yes, I can order one) but I do have many 10 speed chains on hand.


If you already have a chain I suppose it's worth trying but I wouldn't expect it to work.

First, the inner width of the 10 and 11 speed chains are the same, that's why you can use for example a RF Narrow Wide on 10sp and 11sp. It's the outer width that's slightly different. So if the pulley doesn't jive with the chain, the 10 speed won't have any more space.

In addition, because it's wider, the 10sp chain won't fit quite within it's space on the cassette so it will want to grab the next lower gear and downshift. In theory.

Like I said, it's worth a shot though if you already have the chain.


----------



## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

I have this setup on my new Pivot Les Fat. The XTR shifter effort on fore finger release is tougher than a thumb shift when shifting into a harder gear. Anyone else experience this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Yes, the new XTR shifter is noticeably harder to upshift when actuated with the index finger. I think at this point most people are using the index finger only to brake, which leaves only the thumb for shifting duties. I just thumb shift up and down, it's such a nice action. The shift paddles are much more ergonomical for the thumb anyhow, plus the double skip only works in that direction. You're not the only one though.


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

max_lombardy said:


> ...plus the double skip only works in that direction.


Wait, what? Is this for real? Since when does new generation stuff remove features? Damn. I stuck it out with 8 speed M950 for a long damn time, I actually have never had a 9-speed drivetrain on one of my personal bikes. Looks like I may be doing the same with 10-speed. Well, 10 speed shifters and cassettes, anyway. I like my 11 speed derailleur.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Again, I don't really see it as a loss of anything worthwhile. The shifter still has more features than SRAM and has a way better feel. You can still double-release with the thumb, just not with the index finger.


----------



## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

max_lombardy said:


> Yes, the new XTR shifter is noticeably harder to upshift when actuated with the index finger. I think at this point most people are using the index finger only to brake, which leaves only the thumb for shifting duties. I just thumb shift up and down, it's such a nice action. The shift paddles are much more ergonomical for the thumb anyhow, plus the double skip only works in that direction. You're not the only one though.


I did notice that I was using my thumb to do all the shifting. On my 2x10 XT equipped Tallboy, I use the thumb/forefinger method.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

max_lombardy said:


> Again, I don't really see it as a loss of anything worthwhile. The shifter still has more features than SRAM and has a way better feel. You can still double-release with the thumb, just not with the index finger.


It is worthwhile if it is something that you use, I would miss that feature.


----------



## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Sounds like the SRAM cassette with Shimano shifter/derailleur works fine... I wanted to try the other way around, even if nobody else would ever try it.

I'm going shuttling this weekend so I wanted to put a beefier rear tire on. My other bike has the tire I want to use on it so I thought it would be easier to move the wheel than put the tire on and take it off again after my trip. The other wheel has an 11-40 XTR cassette on it. This bike has X01 shifter/derailleur/cassette.

It could be a matter of adjustment but it shifted like garbage. I didn't want to adjust the derailleur just to have to adjust it back after my trip so I ended up swapping the tire.


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Questions to the people running an XTR RD-M9000 with an XX1 cassette :

- what chainlength do you use? According to their respective manuals, SRAM recommends adding 4 links, Shimano only two.
- what distance between upper pulley and large cog?
SRAM recommends 12 - 16mm, while Shimano mentions 5 - 6mm.
- When using a narrow wide chainring up front and XX1 cassette at the rear, I'd expect SRAM's XX1 chain is the way to go.

Seems like SRAM recommends about 2x Shimano's values.

http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/dm/DM-RD0004-04-ENG.pdf

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...8-003-000_rev_d_1x11_mtb_rear_derailleurs.pdf


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

-Chain length depends on if you have a FS with a lot of chain growth (3-4 links) or an HT (2 is fine). Or you can let the air out of your shock, compress fully and add 2 links. Can't see why you'd need more than that.
-I've always gone with the 5-6 mm spacing and gotten nice crisp shifts. No problems with M9000/XX1.
-I'd think either chain would be fine but I'm on a SRAM chain and it's solid. I'd argue for X1, it weight just 6 grams more than XX1 and can be had for a really nice price.


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

I think SRAM's recommendations on chain length (and spacing) have to do with the possibility to go +2T or -2T on the front chainring. The capacity of their RD can take up the additional chainslack of 2T less or lesser chainslack of 2T more. Shimano can do the same I guess (although they don't list this), given that the GS has a 37T capacity (42-10 = 32T), and the SGS 45T.


----------



## chadadally (Jul 8, 2013)

madskatingcow said:


> Questions to the people running an XTR RD-M9000 with an XX1 cassette :
> 
> - what chainlength do you use? According to their respective manuals, SRAM recommends adding 4 links, Shimano only two.
> - what distance between upper pulley and large cog?
> ...


The difference in the b set screw spacing between your upper pulley and your largest cog is because Shimano has a smaller 40t big ring in the rear and the way the dérailleur pivots as it goes to larger cogs. The SRAM dérailleur gets more movement in the pulley. The best way to set your rear dérailleur is shift up (down to smaller) four gears from the largest cog in the rear and then do a single stroke four gear shift with a REALLY SLOW (1sec per quarter turn) pedal rotation in a bike stand. The chain shouldn't bind against the large cog when shifting into the large cog. If so add more spacing. Get that perfect and you will have the correct spacing without risking damage during quick shifts on a steep climb. 
Ideal chain length is best if you can test as you take out lengths. Basically I set mine with my smallest front chainring I'd use and take out pairs until the dérailleur just starts to have tension when in smallest rear cog. Then you can go from 32-36 or 30-34 front rings without chain adjustments. 
But if you're changing front rings, remember to reset your b adjust for proper spacing as the pulley wheel moves distance as you add or remove teeth or links.


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Thanks for the detailed response - in the meantime I discovered Shimano's technical reference 2015-2016 SHIMANO Product Information Web . It is listed that the XTR RD-M9000 SGS / GS are compatible with a 42T when set up as 1x11 
My XTR RD-M9000 GS derailleur and shifter are in the house, will mount it end of the week.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Hey everyone, 
I have a question somewhat similar to the motivation in this thread, so I figured I would ask it in here instead of starting my own thread.

Does anyone know if the new XTR M9000 11s shifter is compatible with the XX1 2.1 derailleur and XX1/X01 cassette? I ask because I'd love to use the XTR shifter and brakes at my hands (love the I-Spec feel) but still use the XX1 derailleur. Anyone know?

It's an 11s shifter, and I can't find anything that says it _wouldn't_ work. But I also can't find anything that says it _will_ work.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> Hey everyone,
> I have a question somewhat similar to the motivation in this thread, so I figured I would ask it in here instead of starting my own thread.
> 
> Does anyone know if the new XTR M9000 11s shifter is compatible with the XX1 2.1 derailleur and XX1/X01 cassette? I ask because I'd love to use the XTR shifter and brakes at my hands (love the I-Spec feel) but still use the XX1 derailleur. Anyone know?
> ...


Don't think so. Cross-compatibility is a thing of the past. I tried the reverse and it was a no-go (XTR m9000 dérailleur and XO1 shifter, just for s#its and giggles while I waited on my XTR shifter to arrive in the post). The actuation ratio is different.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

max_lombardy said:


> Don't think so. Cross-compatibility is a thing of the past. I tried the reverse and it was a no-go (XTR m9000 dérailleur and XO1 shifter, just for s#its and giggles while I waited on my XTR shifter to arrive in the post). The actuation ratio is different.


Total bummer. Not what I wanted to hear =(

Was really hoping for an XTR cockpit and XX1/X01 rear end.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> Total bummer. Not what I wanted to hear =(
> 
> Was really hoping for an XTR cockpit and XX1/X01 rear end.


Any reason why? To me the XTR rear der is less "plasticky" and higher quality than xx1, and better looking. Weight is almost the same, and the XX1 cassette still works. What's not to like?


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

max_lombardy said:


> Any reason why? To me the XTR rear der is less "plasticky" and higher quality than xx1, and better looking. Weight is almost the same, and the XX1 cassette still works. What's not to like?


The XX1 cassette will still work though?

So you're saying I could run the XTR brakes, 11s shifter, and 11s derailleur while still using the XX1/X01 11s cassette?

I've just been trying to figure out ways to keep my XX1/X01 cassette while taking advantage of the I-Spec goodness.

I'm confused though. Because if the XTR shifter and XX1 derailleur aren't compatible, doesn't that essentially mean the cassette would need to match the cog spacing as well? How is it that the cassette wouldn't also need to swapped out?


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Different cable pull. 

The dérailleur still moves the same amount, though.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Basically the shifter and dérailleur are designed to use a certain amount of cable to move a certain distance. In this case the cassette spacing between XTR and Sram is the same. So as long as you use the same shifter and dérailleur, you can choose the cassette you like. I have the XTR shifter and dérailleur and an XX1 cassette and it works like a dream. Best setup I've ever used hands down.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

max_lombardy said:


> Basically the shifter and dérailleur are designed to use a certain amount of cable to move a certain distance. In this case the cassette spacing between XTR and Sram is the same. So as long as you use the same shifter and dérailleur, you can choose the cassette you like. I have the XTR shifter and dérailleur and an XX1 cassette and it works like a dream. Best setup I've ever used hands down.


Yes, my bad. After I posted that I then went back through this thread from the beginning and realized that's entirely what people started posting: "using the XTR shifter and RD w/SRAM XX1/X01 cassette and it's flawless!!". My bad, I should have read first.

I'll put out just one last question though: According to Shimano, the long cage RD has a 45T capacity. For *hits and giggles, I'd like to try the new One-Up 44T sprocket. Analytically, Shimano says the RD could do it. Thoughts?


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

max_lombardy said:


> I have the XTR shifter and dérailleur and an XX1 cassette and it works like a dream. Best setup I've ever used hands down.


I have the XTR BR-M9020 brakes, SL-M9000 right shifter, FC-M9000 crank with 30T ring, XTR HG-900 chain and XX1 cassette. Works perfect - what chain are you running? I have done some measurements using a caliper, there are some differences, ranging like 1/10th of a millimeter.


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

chrisingrassia said:


> I'll put out just one last question though: According to Shimano, the long cage RD has a 45T capacity. For *hits and giggles, I'd like to try the new One-Up 44T sprocket. Analytically, Shimano says the RD could do it. Thoughts?


Derailleur capacity is not the same as maximum cog size. Capacity is the total range of gears it can handle, calculated by subtracting the smallest cog from the largest cog, and if running multiple front chainrings, doing the same for them and adding the sums together. So 45t capacity does not mean it can shift over a 45t cog. However...

Probably the M9000 RD can easily shift over a 44t cog, it has no problem with a 42t, and there is always some wiggle room. And the medium cage should be fine, the long cage would remain overkill. A 10-44 cassette would give a nice range, it probably isn't going to get much better than that for a 1x drivetrain.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Derailleur capacity is not the same as maximum cog size. Capacity is the total range of gears it can handle, calculated by subtracting the smallest cog from the largest cog, and if running multiple front chainrings, doing the same for them and adding the sums together. So 45t capacity does not mean it can shift over a 45t cog. However...
> 
> Probably the M9000 RD can easily shift over a 44t cog, it has no problem with a 42t, and there is always some wiggle room. And the medium cage should be fine, the long cage would remain overkill. A 10-44 cassette would give a nice range, it probably isn't going to get much better than that for a 1x drivetrain.


So how does that calculation work if using a 1x setup? 44-10+30 (front ring) = 64....?
Obviously 64 is bigger than the stated XTR derailleur at 45T. I have to imagine the derailleur will work just fine since OneUp also sells a 45T sprocket for the Shimano XTR cassette. So my One up 44T sprocket for my SRAM XX1/X01 cassette should be just fine......theoretically.....


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

chrisingrassia said:


> So how does that calculation work if using a 1x setup? 44-10+30 (front ring) = 64....?
> Obviously 64 is bigger than the stated XTR derailleur at 45T. I have to imagine the derailleur will work just fine since OneUp also sells a 45T sprocket for the Shimano XTR cassette. So my One up 44T sprocket for my SRAM XX1/X01 cassette should be just fine......theoretically.....


With a 1x setup you ignore the front ring, the derailleur doesn't care how big the chainring is, only about any difference in sizes, and since there is only one there is no difference it has to take up. This is why the medium cage can handle any possible 1x setup. You should be fine, actually the only possible restriction is to not use a cassette with a big cog smaller than 40t.

The 45t works because it would only be barely bigger than the 44t, but your 10-44 cassette would still be roughly a full gear wider in range than an 11-45, mathematically speaking.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> With a 1x setup you ignore the front ring, the derailleur doesn't care how big the chainring is, only about any difference in sizes, and since there is only one there is no difference it has to take up. This is why the medium cage can handle any possible 1x setup. You should be fine, actually the only possible restriction is to not use a cassette with a big cog smaller than 40t.
> 
> The 45t works because it would only be barely bigger than the 44t, but your 10-44 cassette would still be roughly a full gear wider in range than an 11-45, mathematically speaking.


That's an interesting post of info, since I just ordered the Long Cage derailleur this morning. I thought for sure I would need the long cage variety. You really think I could get away with a mid cage XTR M9000 derailleur if I run a 10-44 cassette and 30 or 32 front ring?


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

chrisingrassia said:


> That's an interesting post of info, since I just ordered the Long Cage derailleur this morning. I thought for sure I would need the long cage variety. You really think I could get away with a mid cage XTR M9000 derailleur if I run a 10-44 cassette and 30 or 32 front ring?


Yes, absolutely. The XTR RD-M9000-GS (the medium cage version) has a 37t capacity, and your cassette easily works: 44-10=34. The front ring size doesn't matter. On my bike, I am running this derailleur with an 11-42 cassette, and there is plenty of capacity left. Always run the shortest cage that works for your setup, see if you can change your order or return the long cage one.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Yes, absolutely. The XTR RD-M9000-GS (the medium cage version) has a 37t capacity, and your cassette easily works: 44-10=34. The front ring size doesn't matter. On my bike, I am running this derailleur with an 11-42 cassette, and there is plenty of capacity left. Always run the shortest cage that works for your setup, see if you can change your order or return the long cage one.


Will do. Cheers!


----------



## zonamtbiker (Apr 29, 2008)

Just upgraded to 1x11 using the XTR M9000 Rear Derailleur/Shifter with the XX1 rear cassette and chain, crankset is a Next SL w/36 tooth ring. I have been riding it now for a month but I can't get the shifting sharp through all 11 gears. If I adjust so it shifts sharp through the smaller cogs, then I get a slight chain chattering when I'm in the larger cogs (plus hesitation shifting from larger to smaller cogs). Any ideas on how to fix this?


----------



## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Bent hangar ^^


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

zonamtbiker said:


> Just upgraded to 1x11 using the XTR M9000 Rear Derailleur/Shifter with the XX1 rear cassette and chain, crankset is a Next SL w/36 tooth ring. I have been riding it now for a month but I can't get the shifting sharp through all 11 gears. If I adjust so it shifts sharp through the smaller cogs, then I get a slight chain chattering when I'm in the larger cogs (plus hesitation shifting from larger to smaller cogs). Any ideas on how to fix this?





Alias530 said:


> Bent hangar ^^


Agreed. Get the hanger aligned just as a precaution before fiddling with the shifter/cable. Then start with minor barrel adjusting. I wonder if the XX1 chain (for _whatever_ reason) may be causing a slight hiccup there, too.


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

I must say I too can hear a slight rattle pedalling steep uphill when shifted into the 36 and 42T cogs. Shimano recommends a 5-6mm spacing between upper pulley and 42T cog. Respecting this surely quietens things down, but I can still hear a light rattle. I'm running the XTR HG-900 chain, with FC-M9000 crank with a 30T ring.
Given the post above, using the XX1 chain doesn't make a difference.

When you guys are shifted into the 10T cog, is there some slack on your rear derailleur cable or is it tight (like mine) with no slack?


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

zonamtbiker said:


> Just upgraded to 1x11 using the XTR M9000 Rear Derailleur/Shifter with the XX1 rear cassette and chain, crankset is a Next SL w/36 tooth ring. I have been riding it now for a month but I can't get the shifting sharp through all 11 gears. If I adjust so it shifts sharp through the smaller cogs, then I get a slight chain chattering when I'm in the larger cogs (plus hesitation shifting from larger to smaller cogs). Any ideas on how to fix this?





Alias530 said:


> Bent hangar ^^





madskatingcow said:


> I must say I too can hear a slight rattle pedalling steep uphill when shifted into the 36 and 42T cogs. Shimano recommends a 5-6mm spacing between upper pulley and 42T cog. Respecting this surely quietens things down, but I can still hear a light rattle. I'm running the XTR HG-900 chain, with FC-M9000 crank with a 30T ring.
> Given the post above, using the XX1 chain doesn't make a difference.
> 
> When you guys are shifted into the 10T cog, is there some slack on your rear derailleur cable or is it tight (like mine) with no slack?


A rattle? Or chain chatter, like it's wanting to jump gears? Maybe the cassette isn't completely installed right.


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Definitely not wanting to jump gears - it's more the sound of a light 'rub' whenever you apply torque uphill. As long as you are spinning evenly you don't even hear it. Since I've done some measurements using a caliper on both new XX1 and XTR HG-900 chains, the XTR chain has an inner width of 3,60mm at the narrow links, 4,00mm at the wide links and a distance of 5.35mm between the rollers vs 3.65, 3.90 and 5.25 of the XX1. I would think only the most narrow links count (that's a 0.05mm difference) and the distance between the rolles (a 0.10mm difference).

I have an S-Works Stumpjumper HT and S-Works Epic WC, both with XTR / XX1, and it's the same 'rubbing' sound on both bikes. 100% sure it's not the derailleur hangers.


----------



## zonamtbiker (Apr 29, 2008)

Mine is not trying to jump gears either and is really only in the 32T and 36T cogs, not in the 42, which is strange. For me I can get rid of the chatter by turning the barrel in, (shortening the cable). But when I do this, it doesn't want to shift from 10T to 12T. This adjustment is just a half to 3/4 turn of the barrel. So what I have ended up doing is adjusting on the fly depending on the trail condition that is coming up.

I will check the derailleur/cassette spacing and have the hanger checked. Our LBS has a really good mechanic so when I have him check the hanger, I'll see if he has any ideas.


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

madskatingcow said:


> Definitely not wanting to jump gears - it's more the sound of a light 'rub' whenever you apply torque uphill. As long as you are spinning evenly you don't even hear it. Since I've done some measurements using a caliper on both new XX1 and XTR HG-900 chains, the XTR chain has an inner width of 3,60mm at the narrow links, 4,00mm at the wide links and a distance of 5.35mm between the rollers vs 3.65, 3.90 and 5.25 of the XX1. I would think only the most narrow links count (that's a 0.05mm difference) and the distance between the rolles (a 0.10mm difference).
> 
> I have an S-Works Stumpjumper HT and S-Works Epic WC, both with XTR / XX1, and it's the same 'rubbing' sound on both bikes. 100% sure it's not the derailleur hangers.


I am not sure that a light rub or some sort of noise is possible to completely avoid in a wide range 1x drivetrain in the biggest cogs with the inherently less than ideal chainlines, especially with an 11 speed setup. This is part of why I have been trying to stick to 10 speed, it isn't much of an improvement, but it is better. I don't mind the bigger jumps, and the shifting onto and off of my Wolftooth 42t has always been remarkably good with the RadCage M980 and the M9000.


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

I managed to cure the rattle, by swapping the XTR HG-900 chain to an SRAM PC-XX1.

Although the dimensions of both chains are pretty equal, there is one major difference : side play.

I took a brand new piece of 8 links of each chain, aligned them perfectly parallel with the side of the table and hold the end link. The other end I moved away from the side of the table : Shimano chain can only be moved 7mm at most, while the XX1 chain easily can be moved 11mm. This makes a big difference taken the length from front chainring to the cassette into account. When cross shifting into the 36 and 42T cogs, there is less stress on the teeth of the cassette, which seemed to cause the grinding noise. Even when backpedaling, the chain now stays perfectly on, no chain jumping or anything. The XX1 chain works perfect with the Shimano 30T chainring up front as well.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Are the cassettes any wider overall? Not sure as I've not put a set of calipers to them. But the difference is gonna be pretty minimal


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Cassettes measure exactly the same cog pitch and overall width, see here


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

madskatingcow said:


> I managed to cure the rattle, by swapping the XTR HG-900 chain to an SRAM PC-XX1.
> 
> Although the dimensions of both chains are pretty equal, there is one major difference : side play.
> 
> ...


Very interesting. Thanks for giving us an update. I wonder if I will be having a similar issue with my KMC X11 SL chain once I complete my build.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> That's an interesting post of info, since I just ordered the Long Cage derailleur this morning. I thought for sure I would need the long cage variety. You really think I could get away with a mid cage XTR M9000 derailleur if I run a 10-44 cassette and 30 or 32 front ring?





VonFalkenhausen said:


> Yes, absolutely. The XTR RD-M9000-GS (the medium cage version) has a 37t capacity, and your cassette easily works: 44-10=34. The front ring size doesn't matter. On my bike, I am running this derailleur with an 11-42 cassette, and there is plenty of capacity left. Always run the shortest cage that works for your setup, see if you can change your order or return the long cage one.





chrisingrassia said:


> Will do. Cheers!


Started to build up my new bike this weekend, figured I would give an update. This mid cage M9000 XTR rear derailleur does NOT work with my 10-44 cassette. I have the L-screw to the point where it's in line with the 44T cog, the clutch in the OFF spot, and the B-screw ALL the way in. I can't get myself anymore space between the derailleur and the the 44T cog.


















Unless I'm doing something wrong, I don't see how the long cage variety would work either since that's just a longer cage instead of pulley clearance. I'm going to screw in my XX1 derailleur and see if that works.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Interestingly enough, I just looked at the XTR site "RD Complete Specs" sheet and it says plain as day, top sprocket 11T, low sprocket 40T. My experience seems to fit that perfectly. Not sure how you are running this on a 10-42.....


----------



## chukko (Sep 12, 2014)

Thats weird. Maybe it depends on derailleur hanger. I have M9000-GS with XX1 cassette and 44t cog and it works fine. I need to ask my bike service if they used original B-screw. Did you maybe try longer B-screw?


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

chukko said:


> Thats weird. Maybe it depends on derailleur hanger. I have M9000-GS with XX1 cassette and 44t cog and it works fine. I need to ask my bike service if they used original B-screw. Did you maybe try longer B-screw?


Well that's frustrating because that's the exact same setup as I have. I'm not even close on clearance. As in the picture, I can actually only get the pulley lined up with the 44T cog when I manipulate the teeth so they are alternating. Otherwise the pulley hits the cog.

The B-screw that came with the RD is all the way screwed in, it's hitting the metal bump stop, so it can't be screwed in anymore. But I can see how a longer screw may be the solution.

But despite all that, if the B-screw has to be changed out, then the RD doesn't have a 37T capacity from the factory.....right?


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

chrisingrassia said:


> Interestingly enough, I just looked at the XTR site "RD Complete Specs" sheet and it says plain as day, top sprocket 11T, low sprocket 40T. My experience seems to fit that perfectly. Not sure how you are running this on a 10-42.....


Wrong, read the official Shimano technical specs here, it clearly states 1x11 : 42T


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

chrisingrassia said:


> Started to build up my new bike this weekend, figured I would give an update. This mid cage M9000 XTR rear derailleur does NOT work with my 10-44 cassette. I have the L-screw to the point where it's in line with the 44T cog, the clutch in the OFF spot, and the B-screw ALL the way in. I can't get myself anymore space between the derailleur and the the 44T cog.
> Unless I'm doing something wrong, I don't see how the long cage variety would work either since that's just a longer cage instead of pulley clearance. I'm going to screw in my XX1 derailleur and see if that works.


You need to have a chain on there, or just swing the cage around to a forward position, that is how it will be positioned in the big cogs with a chain, and that swings the upper jockey pulley down to create the missing clearance. That is what makes the M9000 different than the M985 derailleur, the jockey pulley axle is offset from the cage pivot to vary the amount of clearance to track the profile of a wide range cassette.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

madskatingcow said:


> Wrong, read the official Shimano technical specs here, it clearly states 1x11 : 42T


Interesting. I was reading this: https://www.ridextr.com/specfiles/en/RD Complete Specs.pdf



VonFalkenhausen said:


> You need to have a chain on there, or just swing the cage around to a forward position, that is how it will be positioned in the big cogs with a chain, and that swings the upper jockey pulley down to create the missing clearance. That is what makes the M9000 different than the M985 derailleur, the jockey pulley axle is offset from the cage pivot to vary the amount of clearance to track the profile of a wide range cassette.


Ah!! OK, thanks. I'll have to try that right now. See, I didn't know I needed to do that, didn't know the cage being extended also rotated out/down the main pulley. That's a neat feature!! Thanks for the tip. Will go try that shortly.

I also went to the hardware store real quick and picked up a few different B-screw options. I can get a bit extra length out of the custom bolt, but that's as far as I can push the swivel hanger out before it won't even act as a stop anymore.

















But even despite all that, I'll have to go try and pull the cage manually to see if I can get the clearance I need.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Well I'll be darned, the XTR derailleur does in fact move on a progressive curve towards the 44T cog. Don't think I've seen a RD do this before. It seems to be able to work with the 10-44T cassette. 

So how does this work in order to set your limit screws, especially the L-limit screw? If the derailleur has to, essentially, have a cable hooked up to it, how exactly do you set this derailleur up? In what order would I complete tasks to set it up?

TIA!


----------



## chukko (Sep 12, 2014)

@chrisingrassia I managed to get a picture - VonFalkenhausens answer explains why i more likely have original B screw (i guess service guy would have called me about the problem).


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

chukko said:


> @chrisingrassia I managed to get a picture - VonFalkenhausens answer explains why i more likely have original B screw (i guess service guy would have called me about the problem).
> 
> View attachment 999888


Yep, I agree that the derailleur moves not only in a diagonal pattern when the cable is shifted, but the pulley also seems to rotate down further when the cage goes down as well. I still am not quite sure how to setup this derailleur, in what order to complete the typical derailleur setup tasks


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

chrisingrassia said:


> Well I'll be darned, the XTR derailleur does in fact move on a progressive curve towards the 44T cog. Don't think I've seen a RD do this before. It seems to be able to work with the 10-44T cassette.
> 
> So how does this work in order to set your limit screws, especially the L-limit screw? If the derailleur has to, essentially, have a cable hooked up to it, how exactly do you set this derailleur up? In what order would I complete tasks to set it up?
> 
> TIA!


The offset pulley is actually an old feature that they brought back, I have a 15 year old M951 derailleur and some even older XT derailleurs with basically the same design. Sram also uses it. It doesn't really make setting up the derailleur any harder. First I would get the chain length set and install the chain, then you can set the limit for the 10t, and install the cable and get the shifting dialed in and set the other limit. The offset takes care of itself once the chain is installed.


----------



## chadadally (Jul 8, 2013)

To set it up properly
1) put the smallest front ring you plan to use to determine chain by shortening 1 outer/inner link at a time until no slack in the small ring
2) install chain
3) set the high limit so that pulley is in line with small cog
4) install cable and have the barrel adjust 6-8 clicks back counterclockwise from fully turned in clockwise
5) shift to big cog/low gear and then hold lever on final shift, adjust low limit until pulley is online with largest cog 
6) now here is the pro tip to setting the b screw, shift down to the 4th largest cog and do a four gear shift back up and turn crank extremely slow
7) adjust b screw until chain does not bind at all against big cog and then turn b screw 1/4 turn more. Perfect clearance
8) you may have to tweak the upper and lower limits after to just past aligned to get a faster shift into end cogs
9) adjust barrel adjust to get perfect shifting for you
10) you can now use a bigger front ring 4 teeth (30-34t) larger without changing chain, just readjust b screw for each ring change which only takes seconds.

I run a 30t oval in the mountains where I'm climbing 700-1000ft per mi and a 34t on XC courses. Have a 10-44 X01 custom cassette and full XTR mechanicals.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

chadadally said:


> To set it up properly
> 
> 1) put the smallest front ring you plan to use to determine chain by shortening 1 outer/inner link at a time until no slack in the small ring
> 
> .


Im hoping you meant biggest front ring because chain can't magically get any longer.


----------



## chadadally (Jul 8, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Im hoping you meant biggest front ring because chain can't magically get any longer.


No I mean smallest, BUT I also mean run it through the dérailleur. So therefore you have it taking up all the slack when you are in the smallest single you run up front and smallest back. This is different but since we are using 1x we can differ from the normal big big +1. Basically the dérailleur has slack capacity of 37t so if you put on a 30front and are in the 10 rear and remove a link at a time until the dérailleur is just barely engaged on the swing, you have 40t at your starting point. Thus you have 37t more to go in its ability to get magically longer using dérailleur swing forward. So a 44rear and 34 front is 78t. 78t-40t starting point equals 38t slack between your fastest setup and your climbing setup. My dérailleur handled it but just barely.

This is the best way to avoid needing three chains for your various setups and have tension in your easiest gear in easiest setup.


----------



## Marc Lindarets (Feb 24, 2015)

*Dogs and cats playing together*

It's been a long time coming, but it sounds like a lot of you have the same desires that we did: wanting Shimano ergonomics and shifting performance with the range and simplicity of a SRAM one-by-eleven setup.

Seeing as it's on the Wolf Tooth Friendbook page, let's have a closer look:








That's right- for anyone looking to make their M9000 XTR or M8000 XT drivetrain play _well_ with a 10-42t, 10-44t, or even 11-45t 11-sped cassettes, the Lindarets and Wolf Tooth team is back with a solution. After all, if you're spending XTR money, you should be getting XTR performance.


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

And what is the point / solution here? Are you referring to this :http://www.lindarets.com/liendechvre/ ? Shimano already supports and 11-42T cassette with their XTR RD-M9000 and RD-M8000 derailleurs, so why fix something that isn't broken? A 1T difference of 10 vs 11T isn't a big deal.


----------



## Marc Lindarets (Feb 24, 2015)

Madskatingcow,

The solution is a replacement intermediate link- much like our original 10s GoatLink. Shimano initially specified a 40t max/11t min cog with M9000 derailleurs. Shimano really does engineer their parts to work beautifully within their ecosystem- but anything anything outside of that precisely-defined envelope can cause performance to suffer. 

Both increasing the size of the top cog and reducing the smallest makes a surprising difference in terms of free chain and chain wrap. Running an XX1 cassette with an M9000 rear derailleur results in roughly a 30% increase in the distance from the top pulley to bottom cog while chain wrap is reduced by about ten degrees. As others in this thread have noted, this results in decent -but not ideal- performance.

Going out to larger and more exotic combinations (10-44, 11-44, 11-45), shifting degrades further- mostly because of the added B-screw required and increased distance between the top pulley and cassette that results.

So that's it- the result brings free chain distances back to stock when using a 10-42 cassette while significantly improving performance with bigger options (I'm running a 10-44 on my trail bike and it provides a much appreciated bailout gear). It's not a huge difference- but neither is the difference between SLX and XT, XT and XTR- but a lot of people (myself included ) still choose XTR.


----------



## merlin01 (Feb 28, 2010)

Just built a Pivot Mach4c with XTR RD/shifter, XX1 cassette, KMC11SL chain, RF Next SL cranks. Had problems with the chain dropping down 2-3 gears when pedaling backwards in the 42t cog. Swapping out the chain for a SRAM PC-XX1 resolved the problem. Compared the 2 chains and noticed the KMC chain had quite a bit more side play. The extra side play was allowing the chain to move down to the smaller cog due to the chain line offset.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I always imagined that more side play makes it harder for the chain to jump to the next cog. Hence the degradation of shifting as a chain wears.


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

smilinsteve said:


> I always imagined that more side play makes it harder for the chain to jump to the next cog. Hence the degradation of shifting as a chain wears.


You are correct.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

merlin01 said:


> Just built a Pivot Mach4c with XTR RD/shifter, XX1 cassette, KMC11SL chain, RF Next SL cranks. Had problems with the chain dropping down 2-3 gears when pedaling backwards in the 42t cog. Swapping out the chain for a SRAM PC-XX1 resolved the problem. Compared the 2 chains and noticed the KMC chain had quite a bit more side play. The extra side play was allowing the chain to move down to the smaller cog due to the chain line offset.


Why are you back pedaling? Changing the chain seems like an unnecessary response to an unnecessary action.


----------



## merlin01 (Feb 28, 2010)

It's not a huge deal but I prefer not to have the chain jump cogs if pedaled backwards. There are situations, like starting out on a steep hill, where I want the pedal in a certain position and pedaling backwards is the easiest way to get it there..


----------



## Matt116 (Mar 30, 2012)

So what's the difference between the new XT and XTR that allows the XT to work with a 42t cog while the XTR only works with a 40t


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Matt116 said:


> So what's the difference between the new XT and XTR that allows the XT to work with a 42t cog while the XTR only works with a 40t


XTR RD-M9000 is officialy listed as 42T compatible, see here


----------



## Matt116 (Mar 30, 2012)

madskatingcow said:


> XTR RD-M9000 is officialy listed as 42T compatible, see here


O ok haven't seen that doc before
Thanks


----------



## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

madskatingcow said:


> XTR RD-M9000 is officialy listed as 42T compatible, see here


That's interesting and I'm glad to see it.

Oddly enough, I called Shimano three days ago and asked about this, exactly. The guy I spoke with said that only the SGS cage was compatible with 11-42t.


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

SikeMo said:


> That's interesting and I'm glad to see it.
> 
> Oddly enough, I called Shimano three days ago and asked about this, exactly. The guy I spoke with said that only the SGS cage was compatible with 11-42t.


I run GS (medium cage) with SRAM's XX1 cassette, works fine.

If you run 1x11, you'll be fine with mid cage. If you're going with 2x11, getting long cage will be a safer bet.


----------



## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

Yeah, that's what I was originally thinking. Now I've got to return the SGS version I just ordered. Better now than after I install it!


----------



## Matt116 (Mar 30, 2012)

All my parts arrived today
XT Crank with 32t chainring
XT 11-42 cassette
XTR shifter
XTR GS derailleur
Hopefully I can get it installed tonight, will report back tomorrow how it works


----------



## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

Where did you order your parts from?

I was told that none of the XT M8000 parts would be available until the end of August. Once again, bad information.


----------



## Matt116 (Mar 30, 2012)

Jenson & Pricepoint


----------



## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm curious what you think of the XTR shifters. I have them on my Pivot Les Fat. They are a little stiffer than the 10 speed XT on my other bike. But shifting is excellent. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Rather than start my own thread, I figured you guys would be my best resource here to ask this question. I've never set up a mid cage derailleur before, and I'm not sure if this is right. This is what it looks like on my 10T cog only. Heck, it looks way extended already. Can you guys confirm this is right? I've got the derailleur attached correctly....I believe....with the "step" on the RD right up to the step on the derailleur hanger. I'm just looking for some confirmation that this looks correct at the absolute minimum chain needed.....that derailleur sure looks stretched already.


----------



## Marc Lindarets (Feb 24, 2015)

chrisingrassia said:


> Rather than start my own thread, I figured you guys would be my best resource here to ask this question. I've never set up a mid cage derailleur before, and I'm not sure if this is right. This is what it looks like on my 10T cog only. Heck, it looks way extended already. Can you guys confirm this is right? I've got the derailleur attached correctly....I believe....with the "step" on the RD right up to the step on the derailleur hanger. I'm just looking for some confirmation that this looks correct at the absolute minimum chain needed.....that derailleur sure looks stretched already.
> 
> View attachment 1003368


Which aftermarket top cog are you running? That looks like OneUp's 44t, and a 10-44 is a lot to ask of a stock XTR rear derailleur. Even so, it looks like you've got too much B-screw, but it'd be hard to set it correctly without the cable in place and the derailleur in its top position.

Marc Lindarets


----------



## Matt116 (Mar 30, 2012)

thecanoe said:


> I'm curious what you think of the XTR shifters. I have them on my Pivot Les Fat. They are a little stiffer than the 10 speed XT on my other bike. But shifting is excellent.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I previously had 10speed XTR, The new 11speed XTR is definitely stiffer especially going to higher gears


----------



## Matt116 (Mar 30, 2012)

I had no problems making the XTR-M9000 derailleur work with the XT-M8000 11-42 cassette. Still have 9mm of B screw adjustment left.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Marc Lindarets said:


> Which aftermarket top cog are you running? That looks like OneUp's 44t, and a 10-44 is a lot to ask of a stock XTR rear derailleur. Even so, it looks like you've got too much B-screw, but it'd be hard to set it correctly without the cable in place and the derailleur in its top position.
> 
> Marc Lindarets


Yes, XX1 cassette with OneUp 44T. I was hesitant to try the XTR RD as well in mid-cage, but had several folks on this very thread say they run that same setup w/o issue. So it put my mind at ease. I went with the XTR because I love, love, love my XTR brakes, and love the way Shimano does their i-Spec configurations. So using my XTR brakes with an XX1 RD and shifter didn't appeal to me. I've just not used a mid- or short-cage RD before, so I just wanted to make sure it was supposed to be that stretched so far in just my very first gear. Looked excessive to me, but that's because my only image is from my old M985 long cage.



Matt116 said:


> I had no problems making the XTR-M9000 derailleur work with the XT-M8000 11-42 cassette. Still have 9mm of B screw adjustment left.
> View attachment 1003418


That's great news. Getting it to work on my 44T cog shouldn't be an issue then.


----------



## Matt116 (Mar 30, 2012)

The above pic is with a GS (medium cage) when shifted to high gear there isn't much tension on the chain. You may need a SGS long cage with a 44t


----------



## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

chrisingrassia said:


> Rather than start my own thread, I figured you guys would be my best resource here to ask this question. I've never set up a mid cage derailleur before, and I'm not sure if this is right. This is what it looks like on my 10T cog only. Heck, it looks way extended already. Can you guys confirm this is right? I've got the derailleur attached correctly....I believe....with the "step" on the RD right up to the step on the derailleur hanger. I'm just looking for some confirmation that this looks correct at the absolute minimum chain needed.....that derailleur sure looks stretched already.
> 
> View attachment 1003368
> 
> ...


Doesn't look good to me. I'm looking at a photo of my bike, your cage is in the same position as mine but my chain is in the middle of the cassette.

If the chain is too short, DON'T re-use the old pins and put links back in. The chain will break under load and possibly cause you a world of hurt.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

92gli said:


> Doesn't look good to me. I'm looking at a photo of my bike, your cage is in the same position as mine but my chain is in the middle of the cassette.
> 
> If the chain is too short, DON'T re-use the old pins and put links back in. The chain will break under load and possibly cause you a world of hurt.


When I last had this chain installed, I was running an XX1 RD and a 36T front ring. I dropped to a 34T front and went with the XTR RD this time. I measured the chain and only took out two links. I haven't really done anything else just yet with the drivetrain, just mocked it up on the RD and thought it looked a bit overstretched. We'll see how it goes once I hook up the cable and tinker with the B-screw.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

So I got my chain installed today and started tuning the derailleur. I am having one heck of a time getting the chain to downshift from the 44T to the 36T (11th to 10th gear). The bike shifts flawlessly from 1st to 11th gear, but coming from 11 to 10 doesn't work. I think the problem is just like you guys were stating earlier which is that the KMC chain is actually too "flexible" and has too much play side-to-side. I say that because when I look at the derailleur in the 10th gear, the chain essentially just "bends" instead of downshifting. 

Any thoughts or recommendations for a fix other than going to an XX1 chain? I like my gold chain.....


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

That's typically a problem when the distance between upper derailleur pulley and the cogs is too big.


----------



## jimification (Apr 12, 2011)

Also, just double check the whole gear cable run for smoothness. I had a devil of a time with that 42-36 change sticking until I found one tiny place where the gear cable had a lot of friction. Correcting that fixed the 42-36 drop right away.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

madskatingcow said:


> That's typically a problem when the distance between upper derailleur pulley and the cogs is too big.


I was actually noticing last night that if I get the chain up to the 44T cog, and then set the B-screw to 5-6mm as instructed by Shimano, when I shift back down to 7th or 8th gear it works OK. BUT, when I upshift back to 36T and try to get to the 44T then, the upper pulley is now actually hitting the 44T cog. It's almost as if the B-screw doesn't "remember" where to bring the pulley 

Every time I've built a bike, I've almost always built the entire thing and then take it to a mechanic and pay for the alignment. I just can never seem to figure out how the H/L, B-screw, cable tension and barrel adjusters all work together to get it working flawlessly. I take it in, pay them.....and walk out with a functioning bike ut:



jimification said:


> Also, just double check the whole gear cable run for smoothness. I had a devil of a time with that 42-36 change sticking until I found one tiny place where the gear cable had a lot of friction. Correcting that fixed the 42-36 drop right away.


Wouldn't this problem area show up when I downshift to other gears outside of just the 44T to the 36T?


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

chrisingrassia said:


> Wouldn't this problem area show up when I downshift to other gears outside of just the 44T to the 36T?


Not necessarily, since the 44 to 36 is the most difficult (biggest) jump, it might need a little extra snappiness from the derailleur move, where the other jumps can get by with a slightly sluggish derailleur. (just a thought. I understand that if the derailleur moves to the correct position, the chain should shift. Don't know how much a faster moving derailleur can actually help).


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Maybe you need the Goatlink posted earlier here ? I posted the URL a little higher above the post.


----------



## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> So I got my chain installed today and started tuning the derailleur. I am having one heck of a time getting the chain to downshift from the 44T to the 36T (11th to 10th gear). The bike shifts flawlessly from 1st to 11th gear, but coming from 11 to 10 doesn't work. I think the problem is just like you guys were stating earlier which is that the KMC chain is actually too "flexible" and has too much play side-to-side. I say that because when I look at the derailleur in the 10th gear, the chain essentially just "bends" instead of downshifting.
> 
> Any thoughts or recommendations for a fix other than going to an XX1 chain? I like my gold chain.....


If the 44t is a separate cog, I would add a thin spacer between the 36t and 44t. By thin, I mean something along the lines of 2 layers of aluminum foil; more layers as needed. I do my own custom cassettes with custom spacing so sometimes do this to fine-tune the spacing. I actually use adhesive-backed aluminum heat shielding from the auto parts store for this, sold in rolls about the size of duct tape.

The limit screw will determine the alignment on the 44t. Then when you shift from the 44t to the 36t, the overall derailleur adjustment will determine the alignment on the 36t. If the gears are further apart, the chain is much more likely to drop off the 44t.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

smilinsteve said:


> Not necessarily, since the 44 to 36 is the most difficult (biggest) jump, it might need a little extra snappiness from the derailleur move, where the other jumps can get by with a slightly sluggish derailleur. (just a thought. I understand that if the derailleur moves to the correct position, the chain should shift. Don't know how much a faster moving derailleur can actually help).





madskatingcow said:


> Maybe you need the Goatlink posted earlier here ? I posted the URL a little higher above the post.


I googled the goatlink and saw it's only listed on Wolf Tooth's page for 10speed. I'm running 1x11.



JACKL said:


> If the 44t is a separate cog, I would add a thin spacer between the 36t and 44t. By thin, I mean something along the lines of 2 layers of aluminum foil; more layers as needed. I do my own custom cassettes with custom spacing so sometimes do this to fine-tune the spacing. I actually use adhesive-backed aluminum heat shielding from the auto parts store for this, sold in rolls about the size of duct tape.
> 
> The limit screw will determine the alignment on the 44t. Then when you shift from the 44t to the 36t, the overall derailleur adjustment will determine the alignment on the 36t. If the gears are further apart, the chain is much more likely to drop off the 44t.


yikes.....not sure how much work I really wanna put into this to add only 2 extra teeth....


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Well, if you look at the post by Marc Lindarets, one post above my link, he talks about the XTR 9000 and XT 8000 11s in combination with the Goatlink.


----------



## CactusJackSlade (Apr 11, 2006)

I have just built up my 1x11 setup with a Shimano M9000 shifter and derailleur w/SRAM 10-42 cassette and chain. B screw adjustment needed minimal to accommodate 42t cog. Shifting is excellent on shakedown ride - I will test further but cannot see any issues thus far. I like the gear range of SRAM and the shifting of Shimano (notably the ability to shift down two gears at a time when cresting a hill)






- however I do miss the lightness of the SRAM shifters.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

CactusJackSlade said:


> I have just built up my 1x11 setup with a Shimano M9000 shifter and derailleur w/SRAM 10-42 cassette and chain. B screw adjustment needed minimal to accommodate 42t cog. Shifting is excellent on shakedown ride - I will test further but cannot see any issues thus far. I like the gear range of SRAM and the shifting of Shimano (notably the ability to shift down two gears at a time when cresting a hill)
> View attachment 1006354
> - however I do miss the lightness of the SRAM shifters.


No offence or anything personal at all, but that is one weird looking bike. Those lefty forks always trip me out. You must bomb a lot of XC trips?


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Marc Lindarets said:


> Madskatingcow,
> 
> The solution is a replacement intermediate link- much like our original 10s GoatLink. Shimano initially specified a 40t max/11t min cog with M9000 derailleurs. Shimano really does engineer their parts to work beautifully within their ecosystem- but anything anything outside of that precisely-defined envelope can cause performance to suffer.
> 
> ...





madskatingcow said:


> Well, if you look at the post by Marc Lindarets, one post above my link, he talks about the XTR 9000 and XT 8000 11s in combination with the Goatlink.


Interesting. So does the GOATlink attach right to the derailleur hanger, and then the derailleur to the GOATlink? If I'm going to run a 10-44T cassette, I might need to give this a shot.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

According to this article, the GOATlink does not support 11s Shimano derailleurs...

Lindarets X Wolf Tooth Components GoatLink Improves Wide Range 1x Shifting for Shimano Derailleurs


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

chrisingrassia said:


> According to this article, the GOATlink does not support 11s Shimano derailleurs...
> 
> Lindarets X Wolf Tooth Components GoatLink Improves Wide Range 1x Shifting for Shimano Derailleurs


Why not ask Mark directly and inform us? He's a forum member 



CactusJackSlade said:


> I like the gear range of SRAM and the shifting of Shimano (notably the ability to shift down two gears at a time when cresting a hill) - however I do miss the lightness of the SRAM shifters.


Same here - I've done about 1000km in dry weather conditions on my XTR / XX1 setup without issues.


The force required for downshifting has increased over time, and upshift is pretty cluncky - everything was a little smoother when first setup. Could be due to the coating of the lined inner cable wearing out. 
In the past, XTR was always a lot smoother than SRAM's shifting. But now it seems to be the other way around. The tension of the derailleur clutch probably plays some part in Shimano's system.
Another thing I'm not that fond of is the very long lever throw required for downshifting compared to SRAM. Especially when in the middle of the cassette you like to downshift four gears at a time to the 42T, my thumb slipped off the lever a couple of times. SRAM let's you shift five gears at a time, shorter lever throw and less force required.
XTR HG-900 chain has less play sideways compared to the XX1 chain. As a result, as of 32T all the way to 42T in the back, the chain becomes noisy. Switched back to an XX1 chain, issue solved.
I've been running the XTR FC-M9000 1x11 crank with a 30T chainring. When applying torque riding uphill, you can clearly hear the chain engaging and disengaging from the tooth due to their specific profile everytime you push down the pedals.

Currently I'm in the middle whether or not seting up my new bike with XX1 all the way. It seems to me that SRAM's design is very well executed for 1x11. Compared to XTR it runs quieter and smoother ... when it works. Initially there was a lot of cassette creaking and derailleur clunking, gripshifts failing, etc. But the newer 2.1 components seem to have these issues fixed.


----------



## Marc Lindarets (Feb 24, 2015)

chrisingrassia said:


> Interesting. So does the GOATlink attach right to the derailleur hanger, and then the derailleur to the GOATlink? If I'm going to run a 10-44T cassette, I might need to give this a shot.


You're right- the original GoatLink (10s42) is only compatible with 10s Shimano drivetrains. We do have something in the works (linked above) that we'll be able to talk about more within a few weeks. Sorry it's taken so long- just trying to balance manufacturing priorities. Still, we're pretty sure that you'll be very pleased.


----------



## Marc Lindarets (Feb 24, 2015)

That's a good looking bike! Looks like just the thing for multi-day stage racing. Are those Middleburn cranks?

We do need to get you on a ReMount, though


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Got this as dialed in tonight as I think it's going to get. Quite the stretch in 44T.










Marc Lindarets said:


> You're right- the original GoatLink (10s42) is only compatible with 10s Shimano drivetrains. We do have something in the works (linked above) that we'll be able to talk about more within a few weeks. Sorry it's taken so long- just trying to balance manufacturing priorities. Still, we're pretty sure that you'll be very pleased.


Thanks for chiming in again. I'm taking this bike on its maiden voyage in Bend this coming week, so we'll see how it fares in current shifting situation. Once you finalize and make public the link for 11s options, PM me and maybe I'll pick one up.


----------



## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

chrisingrassia said:


> I was actually noticing last night that if I get the chain up to the 44T cog, and then set the B-screw to 5-6mm as instructed by Shimano, when I shift back down to 7th or 8th gear it works OK. BUT, when I upshift back to 36T and try to get to the 44T then, the upper pulley is now actually hitting the 44T cog. It's almost as if the B-screw doesn't "remember" where to bring the pulley
> 
> Every time I've built a bike, I've almost always built the entire thing and then take it to a mechanic and pay for the alignment. I just can never seem to figure out how the H/L, B-screw, cable tension and barrel adjusters all work together to get it working flawlessly. I take it in, pay them.....and walk out with a functioning bike ?


Aye, there's the rub. When I do it, it takes hours and is comparable to building a wheel. Little adjustment here ruins adjustment there. Bicycle whack-a-mole.

OTOH, my son who worked as a mechanic in a Colorado shop part time while in college, can make everything mesh perfectly seemingly in seconds. A marvel to behold. He burnt out wrenching for others when members of his road racing team kept dumping bikes off on him to set up. For free of course. It wasn't as though he had the time and patience to attend to it even if paid. So he only does his own stuff anymore, but will help out the old man and the old lady in a pinch

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

dwt said:


> Aye, there's the rub. When I do it, it takes hours and is comparable to building a wheel. Little adjustment here ruins adjustment there. Bicycle whack-a-mole.
> 
> OTOH, my son who worked as a mechanic in a Colorado shop part time while in college, can make everything mesh perfectly seemingly in seconds. A marvel to behold. He burnt out wrenching for others when members of his road racing team kept dumping bikes off on him to set up. For free of course. It wasn't as though he had the time and patience to attend to it even if paid. So he only does his own stuff anymore, but will help out the old man and the old lady in a pinch
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Absolutely. Derailleur adjustments are not a skillset I maintain. You're right, one little tweak here or there and you gotta start that $hit all over again. That's actually one of the exact reasons I jumped to 1x11, I was losing sanity dealing with front derailleur tuning.

I also feel like I should be completely dousing my cassette and chain in grease/thick gunk instead of just a dry lube.


----------



## depeche4 (Dec 2, 2012)

anyone try the one up 45 rear on the new xtr?


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

chrisingrassia said:


> No offence or anything personal at all, but that is one weird looking bike. Those lefty forks always trip me out. You must bomb a lot of XC trips?


He posted on a different thread that it weighs 22.5 pounds with dropper post, so who cares how weird it looks!


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

depeche4 said:


> anyone try the one up 45 rear on the new xtr?


At the top of this page there's a pic of the xx1 cassette with the 44t and XTR rear see.


----------



## depeche4 (Dec 2, 2012)

I saw that, I should have rephrased my question, I meant using the xtr rear cassette and the on up 45 t ring.


----------



## burndtjamb (Oct 14, 2004)

> Same here - I've done about 1000km in dry weather conditions on my XTR / XX1 setup without issues.
> 
> 
> The force required for downshifting has increased over time, and upshift is pretty cluncky - everything was a little smoother when first setup. Could be due to the coating of the lined inner cable wearing out.
> ...


Thanks for the long term report. I'm about to do something similar: XTR m9000 GS rear derailleur + XT m8000 11 sp shifter + Absolute Black Oval 32 + X01 10-42 cassette + XX1 chain.

Are other folks who have done the XTR m9000 rear + XX1/X01 cassette combination still happy with their drivetrain? How has it been shifting to the big cogs under load and how is the durability/chain wear compared to previous setups? It seems like folks are having more luck with XX1 chains instead of Shimano - are there any other lessons learned here?


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I've been using X01 cassette with Shimano XTR chain, RD, FD and shifters. I have ridden it hard this season starting in May, and often climb with quite a bit of torque in the 22/42 combo, and I am in the 32/42 combo all the time. And I weigh 190lb without gear. 

It has been working wonderfully for me I love this setup. Shifts great in all directions. Just for the record, the front shifting is the best I've had in 25 years too. No noise that I notice. I had been using 2*10 with a wolftooth cog (but no goat link or cage) and I was not happy with that setup, so I do have standards. 

I'm extremely happy with this setup, and due to our amazing weather this year its really seen a ton of riding. 620% gear range, light weight, perfect performance. The only downside is the still expensive cassette.


----------



## lewis17web (Oct 28, 2013)

Interesting that Niner has gone the other way this year and is using XO1 RD with XT cassette on the new RIP 9 and Air 9. If I was spending $6700 for an XO1 spec bike I would want the XO1 cassette and not the new 440g XT 11-42 cassette. Must work fairly well though if they are going to spec their bikes like that. Personally I'm looking to go the other way on my XC bike and change it up like this thread with XTR RD and XO1 cassette.


----------



## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

4 months in my Pivot Les Fat and perfect shifting. 26T NW with 64bcd gives perfect chain line. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

lewis17web said:


> Interesting that Niner has gone the other way this year and is using XO1 RD with XT cassette on the new RIP 9 and Air 9. If I was spending $6700 for an XO1 spec bike I would want the XO1 cassette and not the new 440g XT 11-42 cassette. Must work fairly well though if they are going to spec their bikes like that. Personally I'm looking to go the other way on my XC bike and change it up like this thread with XTR RD and XO1 cassette.


Yeah, to me that makes no sense. Worst of both worlds.


----------



## burndtjamb (Oct 14, 2004)

lewis17web said:


> Interesting that Niner has gone the other way this year and is using XO1 RD with XT cassette on the new RIP 9 and Air 9. If I was spending $6700 for an XO1 spec bike I would want the XO1 cassette and not the new 440g XT 11-42 cassette. Must work fairly well though if they are going to spec their bikes like that. Personally I'm looking to go the other way on my XC bike and change it up like this thread with XTR RD and XO1 cassette.


It wouldn't surprise me if more bike manufactures go down that route since the cost savings are pretty substantial (>$150 savings on the cassette + no need for a XD freehub driver).

I'm planning to do the same as you... I made the mistake of ordering an XT m8000 11-42 only to realize the huge weight difference compared to the XX1/X01 cassette. I ordered an XD driver + X01 cassette and the XT 11-42 is gonna go on eBay.


----------



## some dude (Jan 1, 2014)

So I just went with an XTR 1x11 set up on my XC bike and went with the XT 11-42 cassette,...I was quite surprised that the XTR shifter limits down shifts to one at a time. My XTR 3x10 and 2x10 set-up will allow me to cassette dump up or down a few gears at a time but not so with the XTR M9000 11x shifter we just installed. Is there another shifter that allows this perhaps or did the XTR 11x go backwards in this feature?


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

some dude said:


> I was quite surprised that the XTR shifter limits down shifts to one at a time.


Push instead of pull the lever, and you will downshift 2 gears at once.


----------



## some dude (Jan 1, 2014)

madskatingcow said:


> Push instead of pull the lever, and you will downshift 2 gears at once.


Thanks, that's a little too much like the Sram method, really prefer the 10x XTR shift operation but I guess I'll be getting used to it somehow. It's going to bug me though with 2 of my other bikes having 10x XTR shifting features


----------



## depeche4 (Dec 2, 2012)

some dude said:


> Thanks, that's a little too much like the Sram method, really prefer the 10x XTR shift operation but I guess I'll be getting used to it somehow. It's going to bug me though with 2 of my other bikes having 10x XTR shifting features


So how is the new xtr so far?


----------



## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

I have 2x10 XT on one bike and 1x11 xtr on the other. I switch back and forth with no problem. But I use thumb and forefinger on XT. XTR is better with thumb/ thumb. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## some dude (Jan 1, 2014)

depeche4 said:


> So how is the new xtr so far?


Haven't had it out on the trail yet, might get a nice long XC climbing and bombing run on it Sunday though. I am noticing some minor chainline issue in climbing gears with a RaceFace Next SL 3x crank running an Absolute Black 34 in center position with bash ring outer. I have a bad habit of back pedaling 1/2-full stroke when transitioning right to left getting my outside left foot down for railing a corner and a backwards full stroke in the top 2-3 climbing gears will jump the chain down 2-3 gears but then recover as soon as forward pedaling happens. It's a bad habit on my part and seems to be fine in the smaller gears. I let the LBS talk me into running the XTR chain as it's supposed to be asymmetrical/directional for best shifting on the XT 11spd cassette. I'll probably try KMC SL chain next go around though as I'm not seeing the asymmetrical qualities on the XT 11spd chain.

As for progression in the XT 11spd cassette over a 10spd with 40 or 42 big ring and 16 subbed for 15/17, the 11spd definitely feels better and shifts better than even a mid caged XTR rear der with RAD cage upgrade. I'm hoping it's that extra edge I'm looking for with a longer range ride that will allow me to climb without spinning out on the downs. I also just went to a 2x10 XTR on a Salsa BearGrease Carbon from a 1x10 and it just works so well, don't like the weight/complexity of the 2x or 3x but the versatility and ability to grab a quick climbing gear is nice!


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

150 miles later, I'd say that I like my XTR M90x0 drivetrain and its XX1 chain and cassette. Quite a few bike mechanics like me are doing the same or will be with the introduction of the XT M8000 since S*** products are rubbish. The XTR works so well, both on and out the stand.

It works well and it's reliable, unlike the other S company. I'm using a 30T NW chainring from OneUp with a XX1 chain and cassette and I'm loving it. Though I'd like to buy an Osymetric NW chainring.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

euskafreez said:


> 150 miles later, I'd say that I like my XTR M90x0 drivetrain and its XX1 chain and cassette. Quite a few bike mechanics like me are doing the same or will be with the introduction of the XT M8000 since S*** products are rubbish. The XTR works so well, both on and out the stand.
> 
> It works well and it's reliable, unlike the other S company. I'm using a 30T NW chainring from OneUp with a XX1 chain and cassette and I'm loving it. Though I'd like to buy an Osymetric NW chainring.
> 
> ...


Any reason why you're being cagy with the brand names? Asterisks, "S company".....it's OK dude, it's a bike forum =).

I think I need to try my XTR/SRAM cassette setup with the XX1 chain. My M9000 RD is super friggin' stiff when I try to hand-turn the cranks. Lots of friction somewhere, all the pulleys are lined up though.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> Any reason why you're being cagy with the brand names? Asterisks, "S company".....it's OK dude, it's a bike forum =).


Ha I was wondering that myself, almost asked.


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

chrisingrassia said:


> Any reason why you're being cagy with the brand names? Asterisks, "S company".....it's OK dude, it's a bike forum =).
> 
> I think I need to try my XTR/SRAM cassette setup with the XX1 chain. My M9000 RD is super friggin' stiff when I try to hand-turn the cranks. Lots of friction somewhere, all the pulleys are lined up though.


I don't want to hurt people too much. The S*** tech support is great, but it's a requirement when your drivetrain and brake products are rubbish.

I don't like the brand because I've worked for one of the best bike shops in Oz in the last months. It was the best of everything except when we had to deal with S***. Their price tag doesn't match the overall quality of their products. Failure after failure. No wonder why no one wants a Sram groupset on a road bike ...

You should definitively try with a XX1 chain. Two reasons for that-

Working on the best road bikes, with an ex Tour's mechanic taught me one thing. You don't mix brands when it comes to chain and cassette. Sram chain on a Sram cassette and Shimano on Shimano. Same deal with Campy. Yes it works if you mix them, but the shifting performances decrease. You can tell with enough experience.
the Sram 1x11 chains have been designed with a narrow wide chainring in mind. Shimano came with a different approach, I can't remember the name of their chainring technology, sorry.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Lots of people use Sram products season after season without failure. They are spec'd on so many bikes, people forget about how for every complaint there is there are 50 other people who are quietly and happily enjoying their product.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

So what are your thoughts then on running a KMC chain with a Shimano/SRAM cassette?

I've got lots of friction with the SRAM cassette, KMC chain, and XTR derailleur. Not sure where exactly though.....


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

chrisingrassia said:


> So what are your thoughts then on running a KMC chain with a Shimano/SRAM cassette?
> 
> I've got lots of friction with the SRAM cassette, KMC chain, and XTR derailleur. Not sure where exactly though.....


KMC chains are rubbish. Big time. Only good for the cheap bastards who don't want to pay the price for a Shimano, Campy or Sram chain.



max_lombardy said:


> Lots of people use Sram products season after season without failure. They are spec'd on so many bikes, people forget about how for every complaint there is there are 50 other people who are quietly and happily enjoying their product.


Lots? Are you kidding me? Avid/Sram brakes can't be used season after season -they will fail, guarantee. Spec'd on tons of bike for other reasons .


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

euskafreez said:


> KMC chains are rubbish. Big time. Only good for the cheap bastards who don't want to pay the price for a Shimano, Campy or Sram chain.


Meh....sound like a paid Shimano troll. My KMC x11SL chain was $100. That's actually double the price of the Shimano/SRAM chains. How does that make me a cheap bastard? You sound misguided and jaded.


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

chrisingrassia said:


> Meh....sound like a paid Shimano troll. My KMC x11SL chain was $100. That's actually double the price of the Shimano/SRAM chains. How does that make me a cheap bastard? You sound misguided and jaded.


I speak in whites and blacks. Some people don't like that. Wow $100 for a KMC chain! I'm impressed. Don't waste your time with their products, buy a chain of the same brand of your cassette.

Not a shimano troll, I hate everything. Except old 10p campy, I like old campy . You have to understand one thing, I'm used to work on a daily basis on the best bikes, brands, products etc etc ...

When you want a trouble free bike you go Shimano -rule #1- and you don't mix chain and cassette -rule #2-.


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

euskafreez said:


> Lots? Are you kidding me? Avid/Sram brakes can't be used season after season -they will fail, guarantee. Spec'd on tons of bike for other reasons .


First of all, all the discussion in this forum is about drivetrains. No need to bring up the tired Avid brake hate. That said, I have been using a set of XO trails for 2 seasons and they are easily the best brake I've owned (yes, I've owned XT, XTR, Hope etc etc.).

Furthermore, what you said about Sram making garbage is patently false. Statements claiming that "100% of product X will fail" or "Every X is garbage" is the hallmark of fallacious arguments. If you don't like Sram that's fine, you're certainly not the only one. Use Shimano. And if you write things like "S***" instead of Sram in order not to hurt anyone's feelings, you're better off not foolishly spreading misinformation about their products in the first place. Rant over.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

euskafreez said:


> I speak in whites and blacks. Some people don't like that. Wow $100 for a KMC chain! I'm impressed. Don't waste your time with their products, buy a chain of the same brand of your cassette.
> 
> Not a shimano troll, I hate everything. Except old 10p campy, I like old campy . You have to understand one thing, I'm used to work on a daily basis on the best bikes, brands, products etc etc ...
> 
> When you want a trouble free bike you go Shimano -rule #1- and you don't mix chain and cassette -rule #2-.


You do understand that KMC makes almost every chain on every bike don't you?


----------



## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

euskafreez said:


> KMC chains are rubbish. Big time. Only good for the cheap bastards who don't want to pay the price for a Shimano, Campy or Sram chain.
> 
> Lots? Are you kidding me? Avid/Sram brakes can't be used season after season -they will fail, guarantee. Spec'd on tons of bike for other reasons .


I've used my lowly elixir 3s for season after season, without so much as needing a bleed. How do I collect on this guarantee?


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

IPunchCholla said:


> I've used my lowly elixir 3s for season after season, without so much as needing a bleed. How do I collect on this guarantee?


Maybe you're so fast you don't need brakes . Only the Codes are good brakes.

Take me for a fool or a troll or both if you want but I know how rubbish Sram products are because I have to deal with their s*** everyday. It doesn't work.

I remember this pro closet bike check, one with an ex pro racer, an irish guy. McCormick something. The guy knows the drill -brand new sram rubbish, doesn't work. old dura-ace works like a charm, never missed a gear. He said it all haha.

I had so much fun wrenching for the tour down under. Everyone was making of the poor riders forced to use Sram products.



Rick Draper said:


> You do understand that KMC makes almost every chain on every bike don't you?


They make what they have been asked to. Remember the time of the Sram PC69? Back then it was made in France -and it was better-, not by some useless muppets like today. So yes KMC makes chain for quite a few brands. The thing is they sell the crappy one under their name ... very clever.


----------



## HSracer (Jun 30, 2013)

euskafreez said:


> Maybe you're so fast you don't need brakes . Only the Codes are good brakes.
> 
> Take me for a fool or a troll or both if you want but I know how rubbish Sram products are because I have to deal with their s*** everyday. It doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you don't know how to set a bike up.

Complete SRAM X0 setup going strong for 3 years now


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

HSracer said:


> Sounds like you don't know how to set a bike up.
> 
> Complete SRAM X0 setup going strong for 3 years now


Probably why I'm wrenching for pro riders ...


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Don't feed the trolls


----------



## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

Oh well, after destroying my xx1 deraileur and finding out that SRAM want more $$$s for their third from top range than xtr, I switched to XT.

So it was cheaper to buy new XT shifter an dXT deraileur for my SRAM cassette than replace the RD with a low end SRAM model - good bye SRAM .

Worked flawlessly, and real happy with the shifting and quietness - XT RD is better at the 10t to 12t change and quiet running, possibly noisier in the easiest couple of gears though. XT shifter window is annoying without blank plate- will need some black tape for that.

Overall, it plays beautifully with the SRAM cassette, and you can't go past a deraileur that is half the price of the SRAM cheap version, and a third the price of the xx1 or x01 .


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

pharmaboy said:


> XT shifter window is annoying without blank plate- will need some black tape for that.


What does this part mean?

I agree Sram is getting a little too proud of their stuff.


----------



## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

Wow. Guess I stumbled into the S*** hate thread. Feeling like a bit of an idiot with my Frankenbike 1X10: Wolf Tooth direct mount 30T on S*** X9 spiderless crank, X0 type 2 mech, PG 1070+General Lee 11-40 cassette, KMC chain, Elixer front brake; XT rear brake. Now that I know my bike doesn't work; maybe I'll have to switch to road bike full time. But no, S*** Red drivetrain is shyte and doesn't work either. Guess I'll have to buy all new bikes from Oz speced with Shimano before I ride again, though I can always ride my SS off road and my fixie on road, soon as I swap the KMC chains of course 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

This is going nowhere


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

pharmaboy said:


> Oh well, after destroying my xx1 deraileur and finding out that SRAM want more $$$s for their third from top range than xtr, I switched to XT.
> 
> So it was cheaper to buy new XT shifter an dXT deraileur for my SRAM cassette than replace the RD with a low end SRAM model - good bye SRAM .
> 
> ...


Usually you'll find the the cover plate behind the shifter window. So you do have to remove the window in order to access the cover plate.

@dwt I feel sorry for you. I had 4 guys coming in my shop today with a broken force and red rear shifter. The exact same problem. Both were approximatively 4-5 years old. I laughed so much! I had a blast of a time. I showed those guys a box full of sram junk ... Their ridding buddies on Campy and Shimano were laughing so much.

I speak in blacks and whites. But don't get me wrong on one thing, Sram products are not reliable. Maybe one day they will improve their drivetrain products the way they have improved Rock Shox over the past 10 years.

Sram has a fantastic customer service and an even better tech support. But they have to ... How many times does a mechanic has to contact Shimano for tech support?


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Again, if you have something worthwhile to contribute to the thread regarding mixing Shimano dérailleurs with Xx1 cassettes feel free to chime in, otherwise take your discussion elsewhere.


----------



## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

smilinsteve said:


> What does this part mean?
> 
> I agree Sram is getting a little too proud of their stuff.


You used to be able to remove the shifter window ( the thing that lets you see what gear you are in) and there was a blanking plate behind it, that you then install to block off the hole left - it's no longer a part of the shifter and is a seperate part order. The window is a pita because it gets in the way of some positions with the brakes


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

pharmaboy said:


> You used to be able to remove the shifter window ( the thing that lets you see what gear you are in) and there was a blanking plate behind it, that you then install to block off the hole left - it's no longer a part of the shifter and is a seperate part order. The window is a pita because it gets in the way of some positions with the brakes


Ok gotcha. I personally like the indicator


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

It'd be useful but people wants matchmakers and clean looking bars. Hence is why the indicator is an option when it used to be the standard not long ago.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

OK, I goofed up and totally had a brainfart installing my chain. Always make sure you put the chain on the correct side of the XTR plate!!









Also, I've ordered an XX1 chain since I run the X01 cassette. I liked the gold chain, but I'm not finding shifting to be that great with X11SL.


----------



## burndtjamb (Oct 14, 2004)

*joining the club...*

So I just swapped out my XT 2x10 setup and replaced it with:
SRAM X01 XG-1195 10-42T cassette
Shimano XTR m9000 GS rear derailleur
Shimano XT m8000 11 speed shifter
Absolute Black Oval 32T 104 BCD
SRAM XX1 chain

I only had a chance to do a quick backyard spin and so far so good... can't wait to hit the dirt!


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Got my XX1 chain set up on the X01 cassette and M9000 derailleur. Made a world of difference. Everywhere the KMC chain failed the XX1 chain excelled. Shifting is crisp now, and it even shifts down from the 44T to the 36T where the KMC chain was missing that cog completely. 

Hate to say it, but euskafreez was right in my experience.


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

chrisingrassia said:


> Got my XX1 chain set up on the X01 cassette and M9000 derailleur. Made a world of difference. Everywhere the KMC chain failed the XX1 chain excelled. Shifting is crisp now, and it even shifts down from the 44T to the 36T where the KMC chain was missing that cog completely.
> 
> Hate to say it, but euskafreez was right in my experience.


All good g.

Fixing bikes is not a hobby of mine, it's my job. Always a pleasure .


----------



## Firemedic85 (Dec 24, 2005)

Hello euskafreez,

I own a Pivot 429sl with a XTR shifter/derailer 
SRAM XO1 10-42 cassette, Raceface Next SL crank, Raceface 28 chainring
XTR Chain

I've got about 500 miles on this set up overall I'm pleased with the shifting. It shifts fine except coming up from the highest gear 10 tooth up I have to hold the shifter a little longer to get the shift up. 

After reading your posts about never mixing the chain and cassette it's got me thinking this could be the problem?

My question is would it be OK to install a new SRAM chain on my 500 mile drivetrain that had a Shimano chain?


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

Firemedic85 said:


> Hello euskafreez,
> 
> I own a Pivot 429sl with a XTR shifter/derailer
> SRAM XO1 10-42 cassette, Raceface Next SL crank, Raceface 28 chainring
> ...


Just check how stretched your chain is, as long as it is below .70mm of stretch it should be alright.

Although I'll start with the length of your current chain. Since you got a fully it has to be done properly. Business as usual, the alignment of the derailleur hanger has to be top notch but I've found out that if your chain is slightly too long there is an issue with the 10T cog.

Regarding the XTR chain, I do think from what we saw at the shop that the 11sp Shimano chains don't work so well with a narrow wide chainring. And with a xD cassette it lacks lateral flex.

So yes, give it a go to a XX1 chain or any 1 by 11 chain from Sram.


----------



## Firemedic85 (Dec 24, 2005)

Thank you euskafreez I will check the chain length and derailer hanger. I'm probably due for a new chain soon so I'll try the XX1 chain. Thanks again


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Euskafreez: couple of questions for you ... 

Do you think there'd be much of a difference between the XX1 and XO1 cassettes? But otherwise same setup - XTR Rd and XX1. 

Also, why did you decide to go with the SRAM cassette over the XT 11-42? Weight? The 10T?

Thanks
Jon


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

If I'm not mistaken, the XX1 and X01 cassettes, other than finish, are exactly the same. Both listed at 268g on SRAMs site.


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

jon123 said:


> Do you think there'd be much of a difference between the XX1 and XO1 cassettes? But otherwise same setup - XTR Rd and XX1.


Tough question. Pretty hard to tell the difference, they do perform the same. The finish is different though ...



jon123 said:


> Also, why did you decide to go with the SRAM cassette over the XT 11-42? Weight? The 10T?


I live and ride in the mountains and I was looking for the best gear ratio as possible. Maybe with a 11-45 XTR cassette I'll go back to Shimano. The 10T helps for sure. But before buying any XTR M90000 cassette I want to be sure it won't creak on the biggest cogs like the Dura-Ace 9000 does.


----------



## bapesta (Feb 12, 2008)

does anyone tried the other way around? since XT came in 11-42, I'm thinking to run a XT cassette with X01 RD and shifter

thanks


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

bapesta said:


> does anyone tried the other way around? since XT came in 11-42, I'm thinking to run a XT cassette with X01 RD and shifter
> 
> thanks


If you scroll back you'll see it's been mentioned. It will work and some manufacturers are spacing that


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

bapesta said:


> does anyone tried the other way around? since XT came in 11-42, I'm thinking to run a XT cassette with X01 RD and shifter
> 
> thanks


If you scroll back you'll see it's been mentioned. It will work and some manufacturers are speccing that mix for cost reasons. Seems to me like the worst of both worlds.


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

You could always mix cassettes, why is that any different now. Loosing the 10 cog is not a deal breaker to me


Pedaling


----------



## bapesta (Feb 12, 2008)

I prefer more lows than the high, I can live with the 11t and save some dough


----------



## LORENZ (May 2, 2008)

Who's trued a Xtr 11-40 m9000 cog modified with with any of the new 44 or 45 cog conversions from one-up or the like? Any first hand comparisons to the XX1 cogs and xtr shifter/derailer combo rigs that seem to be the go to in this thread?


Id love to keep all of the XTR drive line including the chain and rear cogs but modify them to get the range. It looks like there are no real cost differences in XX1, X1, and XTR at this point in the game? Everything has a street value of $250 ish. The one-up 45 tooth mod would add $75-$100 to the equasion but while eliminating the XD hub speciffic to the xx1 cog set.


----------



## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

Preston67 said:


> Another satisfied customer here - I am running 2*11 22/32 on a 29'er. I ... then put a 10-42 X01 cassette on.


How has this been running for you? Did you use a medium (GS) or large (SGS) rear derailleur?


----------



## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Just finished my first ride with xt8000 shifter and derailleur with an xo1 10-42 cassette and i liked it better than all xo1.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

journey said:


> How has this been running for you? Did you use a medium (GS) or large (SGS) rear derailleur?


Yeah it continues to run great. I love it. After 25 years of mountain bikes I finally have perfect gearing. Definitely have to use the long cage derailleur though.


----------



## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Has anyone attempted to use a 10speed derailleur with a 11 speed shifter and cassette?


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

unrooted said:


> Has anyone attempted to use a 10speed derailleur with a 11 speed shifter and cassette?


Yeah, when I was waiting on my 11sp derailleur to arrive I tried with different combinations of SRAM and Shimano and it was off. The cable pull ratios are too different


----------



## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

unrooted said:


> Has anyone attempted to use a 10speed derailleur with a 11 speed shifter and cassette?


Yeah, when I was waiting for my 11sp derailleur to arrive I tried with different combinations of SRAM and Shimano and it was off. The cable pull ratios are too different


----------



## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

unrooted said:


> Has anyone attempted to use a 10speed derailleur with a 11 speed shifter and cassette?


After my 11sp XTR derailleur clutch failed, I used my old XT with a OneUp Radr cage. I'm still using it. XTR 11sp shifter; X1 cassette.


----------



## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

I am looking at doing transitioning to a Sram/Shimano setup with one Caveat. Has anyone used a shimano rear Derailleur with 11 speed Sram gripshift? I broke my right wrist several years ago and it has turned me into a user and fan of the grip shift. I just don't know if the two systems are compatible.


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Shifter and der. needs to be the same brand. Cassettes can be mixed


Pedaling


----------



## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

rjedoaks said:


> Shifter and der. needs to be the same brand. Cassettes can be mixed
> 
> Pedaling


Thank you for the information. That makes things easier


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Guys

I'm considering new 1x11 setup and truerly consider XT-XTR mix (42XT casette and XTR chain).

If i stay with this setup (keeping in mind in future 45T should work also) than can You tell me which parts should i rather change to SRAM/Other. The label doesn't matter - rather better quality and culture of work.


----------



## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

Placek said:


> Guys
> 
> I'm considering new 1x11 setup and truerly consider XT-XTR mix (42XT casette and XTR chain). If i stay with this setup (keeping in mind in future 45T should work also) than can You tell me which parts should i rather change to SRAM/Other. The label doesn't matter - rather better quality and culture of work.


The "focus" on this thread (if one could ever say a thread stays on focus with 250+ postings ;-), is on using Shimano drive train (XTR/XT shifters, crankset, derailleurs, etc.) with an SRAM 10-42 cassette. Many on this thread prefer Shimano as a whole and have commented on how Shimano parts are more robust and have superior trigger shifters.

If you have already decided to go with a Shimano cassette, it may simpler to use an entirely Shimano drivetrain. Also, if you want a 2x11 or 3x11 drive train and plan to use a Shimano 11-spd cassette, going all Shimano (XT 11-42 cassette and XT/XTR for the remainder) may be the easiest choice.

The only reason to go with an SRAM product is if you have a preference for one of their products / capabilities. For example, some prefer grip shifters over trigger shifters, or they prefer the SRAM style trigger shifter. In either case, if you go with SRAM shifters, you have to go with a SRAM rear der. If you want a cassette with 10-42 range, then you will need to go with SRAM cassette and it is recommended that you go with an SRAM chain as well.

So in summary:
- Cassette & chain should match (SRAM or Shimano)
- Rear shifter & rear derailleur should match (SRAM or Shimano)
- 10-42 range cassette -- go with SRAM
- 2x11 or 3x11 -- go with Shimano shifters / derailleurs / crankset

One other point to consider, is that there other wide range cassettes in the works -- on MTBR.com there is an article on "e*thirteen EXP cassette with 9-44 teeth", which uses the SRAM XD drive hub.


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

1 important news for me "Shimano parts are more robust and have superior trigger shifters" - so for rider comfort this is quite important

Casette - it's no difference if that will be 10-42 or 11-42 so in that case i assume no valid advantages Sram>>Shimano XT ?

I definitely stay with 1x11 so here Shimano advantage (of 2x/3x drive train) vanish.


----------



## burndtjamb (Oct 14, 2004)

Placek said:


> Casette - it's no difference if that will be 10-42 or 11-42 so in that case i assume no valid advantages Sram>>Shimano XT ?


10t vs 11t differences aside (yes it's 1 tooth but it's a 10% gearing difference so you get a notable gearing range benefit IMO), the SRAM XX1 or X01 cassettes are 200g+ lighter than the XT 11-42t but they cost over twice as much and also require an XD driver for the hub. So if $$ is a factor, definitely go with XT, otherwise the SRAM cassette is the way to go.


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

And this is what i wanted to know.


----------



## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

burndtjamb said:


> 10t vs 11t differences aside (yes it's 1 tooth but it's a 10% gearing difference so you get a notable gearing range benefit IMO), the SRAM XX1 or X01 cassettes are 200g+ lighter than the XT 11-42t but they cost over twice as much and also require an XD driver for the hub. So if $$ is a factor, definitely go with XT, otherwise the SRAM cassette is the way to go.


burndtjamb - I should have mentioned the points about weight (i.e., XT 11-42: 445g and XX1 10-42: 260g / X01: 275g / X1: 315) and price point (i.e., SRAM being 2X-3X more expensive than XT).

Placek - Depending on the size of the chain ring, the extra tooth can make a difference. I can run a smaller chain ring and not have to worry about running out of top-end speed on the flat / downhill sections. Plus the smaller chain ring gives me more clearance.

Having said that, I did leave out the decision points on price / weight for the cassette / hubs (XD hubs are slightly lighter), and that the SRAM cassettes require an XD compatible hub -- if you are buying new wheels / hubs, getting an XD compatible hub is not usually a significant cost. If you have to convert existing hubs to XD, then you will pay an extra $100-$200.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

My xd freehub was $55. New and on sale. I can see why the 100 to 200 dollar freehub conversion would set many back. Had no idea the xt 11-42 was a big fat pig. Of all my xx1 and x01 cassette most of the x01 weigh less than my xx1 by a few grams. Also paid considerably less for the xx1 thanks to a racer parting out his new gear on ebay when switching to shimano. Cassette was $105. Don't think I could afford new 11 speed stuff otherwise, and didn't want to go with aftermarket cogs. 

On an unrelated note the new xtr di2 especially in 2x makes my 1x obsolete. That front derailleur and the programmable shifting all from just the rear trigger is mind blowing and makes me wonder how I ever got along with just 1 chainring up front. Kidding. Can't wait for sram's wireless drivetrain to be mtb available.


----------



## bosbik (Aug 29, 2011)

so if the xtr RD works the XT m8000 RD should work as well right?
I plan on using an x1 cassette mated with an XT m8000 RD and XTR shifters.
sorry noob question..


----------



## Chonggo (Jul 12, 2009)

Yes, it will work! I'm using xt 11speed RD and shifter with a SRAM GX 11 speed cassette. Smooth shifting!


----------



## bosbik (Aug 29, 2011)

thanks man!..excited to get this going


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Guys
My LBS advise me that 9000 GS woon't worki with 42T (they support themselves with official Sh site). 
Should i be concerned?


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Your LBS is wrong.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Yep, they are wrong.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Placek said:


> Guys
> My LBS advise me that 9000 GS woon't worki with 42T (they support themselves with official Sh site).
> Should i be concerned?


Shimano website and their technical documents do say that it is incompatible with a 42t but they published an updated revised version that now says it is. If you're tight with the bike shop you could bring them up to date by showing them this-2015-2016 SHIMANO Product Information Web


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Thanks so much - this is what i needed.

Btw - what is the difference in XTR cranks - 9000-1 and 9020-1 - is it Q-factor - (158mm vs 168mm) , and weight?


----------



## okusare (Jan 30, 2010)

*Sram Shimano sifter-derailleur mix*

People are reporting success in running sram shifters with shimano rear derailleurs in 11 speed as you can see here:

Test kompatibility SRAM GX a Shimano Deore XT M8000 1x11

So I guess you can mix shifter with derailleur after all without any issues.


----------



## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

okusare said:


> People are reporting success in running sram shifters with shimano rear derailleurs in 11 speed as you can see here:
> Test kompatibility SRAM GX a Shimano Deore XT M8000 1x11


Interesting. Anyone else tried this? I thought there were some previous posts from others who unsuccessfully tried to mix Shimano & SRAM / shifters & RD's.


----------



## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Chonggo said:


> Yes, it will work! I'm using xt 11speed RD and shifter with a SRAM GX 11 speed cassette. Smooth shifting!


Looking at running a similar setup, when you back pedal on the 42 does the chain drop down?


----------



## Chonggo (Jul 12, 2009)

shiny said:


> Looking at running a similar setup, when you back pedal on the 42 does the chain drop down?


No chain drop when back pedaling, but my bike is a hard tail.... Does that matter?


----------



## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Chonggo said:


> No chain drop when back pedaling, but my bike is a hard tail.... Does that matter?


Lot of users reporting chain dropping down from the 42 with XT cassette when back pedaling, so wondered if it happened with a GX or not. Not much of a big deal just wondered if t still occurred if things were mixed! Thanks.


----------



## JohnnyVV (Feb 28, 2015)

Took out freshly installed XTR w/ XX1 cassette/chain for the first time yesterday. Was a bit nervous about the mixed group, but shifting was fast, smooth, and quiet. Really glad I didn't settle for an 11-40 XTR or 450g XT cassette.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

JohnnyVV said:


> Took out freshly installed XTR w/ XX1 cassette/chain for the first time yesterday. Was a bit nervous about the mixed group, but shifting was fast, smooth, and quiet. Really glad I didn't settle for an 11-40 XTR or 450g XT cassette.


Good news. Thanks.
I have the exact components but haven't installed them yet. Winter project ... 
The low weight of the XX1 cassette was what attracted me too - otherwise have always preferred Shimano XTR.


----------



## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

Placek said:


> Thanks so much - this is what i needed.
> 
> Btw - what is the difference in XTR cranks - 9000-1 and 9020-1 - is it Q-factor - (158mm vs 168mm) , and weight?


Difference in Q-factor. On my Cannondale Scalpel (full suspension), I can only use the wider Q-factor crank. Weight difference is negligible.


----------



## slideways666 (Nov 29, 2010)

So going 1x11 10-42 we can use a gs derailleur.....

But what if we want to go 2x11 24/34 10-42? Would i have to use a long cage or can the mid cage still work?


----------



## macduff (Sep 4, 2012)

slideways666 said:


> So going 1x11 10-42 we can use a gs derailleur.....
> 
> But what if we want to go 2x11 24/34 10-42? Would i have to use a long cage or can the mid cage still work?


Long cage IMO . is this for a 29'er or vertical climbs


----------



## slideways666 (Nov 29, 2010)

macduff said:


> Long cage IMO . is this for a 29'er or vertical climbs


yes... for vertical climbs with a 29er... Though ill be getting di2 and use syncroshift.. So cross shifting shouldnt ever happen cause the computer will now allow it..


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Not sure if this has been posted here yet but this is a great addition for those (myself) running XTR 11 with SRAM 10-42 cassette. I know it's pretty much a perfect combo anyway but this can only make it better

GoatLink 11 ? Lindarets


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

jon123 said:


> Not sure if this has been posted here yet but this is a great addition for those (myself) running XTR 11 with SRAM 10-42 cassette. I know it's pretty much a perfect combo anyway but this can only make it better
> 
> GoatLink 11 ? Lindarets


Hang on, are you actually using this? I think this very thread was talking about the GoatLink several pages back, but at the that time I think Lindarets only had the 10s option out there. Are you using this? If so, please give a review. I'm using the 10-42 cassette with OneUp 44T sprocket and M9000 RD, so I was curious how this GoatLink could perform for me. Let us know!


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

chrisingrassia said:


> Hang on, are you actually using this? I think this very thread was talking about the GoatLink several pages back, but at the that time I think Lindarets only had the 10s option out there. Are you using this? If so, please give a review. I'm using the 10-42 cassette with OneUp 44T sprocket and M9000 RD, so I was curious how this GoatLink could perform for me. Let us know!


I have not used it.
I've ordered it, though.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

jon123 said:


> I have not used it.
> I've ordered it, though.


Well I'm certainly curious to hear your thoughts once you get it on.


----------



## Haxle (Jan 22, 2016)

This thread is great news for me. I hope to put together an SRAM 10x42 cassette with a Shimano M8000 RD (long cage) and Shimano 105 FD and Rotor 53 & 38 chainrings. Shimano says their 42 is only good with 1x11 however reports on this forum are all positive. Will I run into any problems with this (touring) setup? (Yes, I do have a MTB so I qualify for this forum. ) If I have to upgrade to XTR or change out the FD or chain (KMC X11) that is fine at this point in construction.


----------



## Marc Lindarets (Feb 24, 2015)

Haxle said:


> This thread is great news for me. I hope to put together an SRAM 10x42 cassette with a Shimano M8000 RD (long cage) and Shimano 105 FD and Rotor 53 & 38 chainrings. Shimano says their 42 is only good with 1x11 however reports on this forum are all positive. Will I run into any problems with this (touring) setup? (Yes, I do have a MTB so I qualify for this forum. ) If I have to upgrade to XTR or change out the FD or chain (KMC X11) that is fine at this point in construction.


Haxle,
You'll have to keep an eye on your rear derailleur's tooth capacity (see Shimano's published specs for your model/cage) and run a mountain shifter- but otherwise it should work.

Marc


----------



## Haxle (Jan 22, 2016)

Marc,
Yes, M8000 long cage Shimano rates at 47 teeth which is exactly what I have (cassette:32 plus chainrings: 15); and I really like bar end shifters so will have to splice in a Jtek Shiftmate. Why are double chainrings not supported by Goatlinks? (Though I have no clue at this point as to whether or not one would be needed.) Thanks for the reply.
-Franklin


----------



## Marc Lindarets (Feb 24, 2015)

Haxle,

Because the M8000 long cages weren't in the US until very recently, we haven't had the chance put as many miles as we'd like on the GoatLink 11 with a double. Now that they're trickling out, we're looking at it, but want to make sure that it works in the real world as well as on paper. If you're on a rigid bike, though, I would say that it should work very well.


----------



## burndtjamb (Oct 14, 2004)

chrisingrassia said:


> Well I'm certainly curious to hear your thoughts once you get it on.


I did a brief write up and included a link to a video comparison of the Goatlink 11 here: http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...-sram-10-42-cassette-990300.html#post12388134


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

burndtjamb said:


> I did a brief write up and included a link to a video comparison of the Goatlink 11 here: http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...-sram-10-42-cassette-990300.html#post12388134


Just checked that out. Thanks!

Maybe I'm not an astrophysicist, but I didn't notice any difference between the stock and the GoatLink shifting in the video.

Then again, I'm running the X01 cassette with OneUp 44T sprocket, so I just can't decide if this is necessary for me.

Marc Lindarets - thanks for your direct emails! Post up a video here of your 10-44 setup with the goatlink. I'd like to see it in action.


----------



## burndtjamb (Oct 14, 2004)

chrisingrassia said:


> Just checked that out. Thanks!
> 
> Maybe I'm not an astrophysicist, but I didn't notice any difference between the stock and the GoatLink shifting in the video.
> 
> ...


Don't worry, no astrophysicist degrees need here! The video basically proves that the stock setup (w/ 42t) works fine without a Goatlink 11. And as you noticed, the video also shows that the Goatlink 11 doesn't provide an obvious, step function improvement over stock, which is just what Lindarets/Wolftooth advertise. From my own experience, the Goatlink 11 helped clean up some of the up shifts into the smaller cogs where I would experience a bit of hesitation w/ the stock B knuckle. Also, from the video, the multi-down shifts to the lower cogs w/ GL11 appears to be smoother than stock. But I guess all of this doesn't really help answer your question about the 44T... I'm also hoping Wolftooth/Lindarets can make a similar (and way more pro) video


----------



## euskafreez (May 26, 2010)

Nah the Goat Link is fine. Not for every bike though. I'd say not for every rear suspension design. You might need one if you can't have a perfect crisp shift between the 10 and the 12T. Assuming you have the required tools and skills to tune a derailleur to the perfection.

Even if you don't, the Goat Link makes it easier. I have few in stock at work, just in case. Used it only one time for a lad with a FSR suspension design. Which was no surprise since my Norco had about the same issue at first. We usually chop the chain of one link with shimano 11sp rear mech and Sram 10-42 cassette in case of this scenario.

But I'd definitely go with a goat link if I was using chainrings of different size from time to time, more margin on the chain is required to do so.


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

I'll be hoping that Marc posts up a video here of his 10-44T setup using the Link.


----------



## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Can someone help me identify the problem? I have a new 2016 Trek EX 9.9. I had the shop install the new sram xx1 10-42 cassette, goat link 11 with XTR rear derailleur. Also switch the front chainring (30T slightly worn Absolute Black oval I had another bike). Cranks remained the same which are next SL. New XX1 chain. Shifting seems fine however there is some drivetrain noise at the cassette. The mechanic is a really good one and I have been using him for years. It is almost like the chain is slightly rubbing on the adjacent cog. He thought maybe derailleur hanger was tweaked a bit, but his tool to fix was not available. Visually I don't see it. Any ideas?


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

bogeydog said:


> Can someone help me identify the problem? I have a new 2016 Trek EX 9.9. I had the shop install the new sram xx1 10-42 cassette, goat link 11 with XTR rear derailleur. Also switch the front chainring (30T slightly worn Absolute Black oval I had another bike). Cranks remained the same which are next SL. New XX1 chain. Shifting seems fine however there is some drivetrain noise at the cassette. The mechanic is a really good one and I have been using him for years. It is almost like the chain is slightly rubbing on the adjacent cog. He thought maybe derailleur hanger was tweaked a bit, but his tool to fix was not available. Visually I don't see it. Any ideas?


It might be related to what is discussed in this thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/sram/xx1-28t-chain-grinding-873075.html


----------



## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Has me boggled. If I listen close to the cassette it has a slight scraping noise on each revolution. If I use my hand and add a little outward tension on the top chain, it stops. It would leave me to think that something is a hair out of alignment. Hanger? Can't imagine it is the swing arm or axle.


----------



## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Might just be the chain angle


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

bogeydog said:


> Can someone help me identify the problem? I have a new 2016 Trek EX 9.9. I had the shop install the new sram xx1 10-42 cassette, goat link 11 with XTR rear derailleur. Also switch the front chainring (30T slightly worn Absolute Black oval I had another bike). Cranks remained the same which are next SL. New XX1 chain. Shifting seems fine however there is some drivetrain noise at the cassette. The mechanic is a really good one and I have been using him for years. It is almost like the chain is slightly rubbing on the adjacent cog. He thought maybe derailleur hanger was tweaked a bit, but his tool to fix was not available. Visually I don't see it. Any ideas?


First call would be to change the chain, not because of the noise but just that I find they wear too quickly and consequently wear everything else in your drive train.

Noise? Does it happen in every gear or just some of them? 
If so which ones? Any delay in shifting at either end of the range, both up and down?
Finally, I am sure that you have checked, but is the hanger mounting bolt fully tight and at correct torque and derailleur bolt fully tight and at correct torque (only asking beause I have seen/ heard this when a derailleur bolt was not fully seated even though it was not moving due to Loctite. Literally out by quarter of a turn).
Hope that 2 cents worth helps.


----------



## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

It is a brand new chain. I will check derailleur hanger tomorrow.


----------



## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Might sound stupid, but have you played around with the cable tension for the rear derailleur?


----------



## cannondave (Mar 3, 2014)

Most reliable smooth shifting chain to use with this setup..
sram / kmc / shimano..??


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

I was not pleased with the KMC X11SL chain on this setup. Went back to the XX1 chain and a noticeable shift difference.


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

KMC SL11 Ti-N or DLC (depending on your budget)
Shimano HG900 11 speed

I personally do not recommend SRAM chains as I feel that they wear faster and wear everything else in the drive train faster. I do not know why this is the case but it appears to be from experience. XX1 chain that came with the bike possibly one of the fastest wearing chains I have ever had in 25 years.

I am ordering the Linderets Goat Link 11 to see if their claim of making XTR/ XX1 cassette even better is true. I'll report back once I have run it for a bit.


----------



## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

The wisdom from earlier pages seems to be that it is best if the chain manufacturer and cassette manufacturer should be the same. 

I have a couple hundred miles on a SRAM chain. Will see if it wears faster than the KMC's that I was running with my 2x10.


----------



## cannondave (Mar 3, 2014)

Funny thing I noticed, after reading most people's views on chains with this set up I was browsing Giant's website last night and noticed all of their bikes run full sram drivetrain's but all use KMC chains..!! 
What does that say about sram chains....:eekster: you tell me...!!


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

cannondave said:


> What does that say about sram chains....:eekster: you tell me...!!


As large buyer of components, Giant is able to get better pricing on KMC chains as compared to SRAM chains. I wouldn't use the Giant's example as a sign of one component is better than another.


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

That makes no sense as a large buyer who is already buying a **** tin of SRAM parts GIANT get preferential pricing on SRAM items like chains that are cheaper than KMC anyway. They are therefore speccing KMC chains to either be different or because they are better (I am voting for better as that is what my personal practical experience has shown).


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

cannondave said:


> Funny thing I noticed, after reading most people's views on chains with this set up I was browsing Giant's website last night and noticed all of their bikes run full sram drivetrain's but all use KMC chains..!!
> What does that say about sram chains....:eekster: you tell me...!!


That says that Giant could source KMC's for a couple of cents cheaper than SRAM chains. Every single component on a bike is scrutinized for price vs. perceived value, who looks at the brand of the chain when purchasing a new bike?


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> That says that Giant could source KMC's for a couple of cents cheaper than SRAM chains. Every single component on a bike is scrutinized for price vs. perceived value, who looks at the brand of the chain when purchasing a new bike?


Chains are important. Without it the bike can't move.


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> That says that Giant could source KMC's for a couple of cents cheaper than SRAM chains. Every single component on a bike is scrutinized for price vs. perceived value, who looks at the brand of the chain when purchasing a new bike?


Buying KMC chains in bulk makes a LOT of sense. You have bikes with SRAM drivetrains, you have bikes with Shimano drivetrains. Do you want to buy both brands or just one brand in bulk? Even a few cents on volume matters. Economies of scale...


----------



## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

car bone said:


> Chains are important. Without it the bike can't move.


I guess you haven't seen a downhiller ride a course with broken chain before? ;-)


----------



## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

I've been thinking of making this dive on my Santa Cruz 5010, mixing a sram xx1 10-42t cassette with an XTR GS size rear derailleur and 30t front chainring. Is this a good setup that will work? I thought initially that it would but some of the posts in this thread have given me some pause...


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

Yes it is a good setup that will work. I've been running 22/32 with a long cage XTR derailleur and X01 10-42 since early last season and not only does it work great I am still on the original cassette and Shimano chain. 
I've never been happier with my gearing. 
I recently added the Goat Link but I can't say I really noticed that much difference, it might have improved coming off the 10t by 5%.


----------



## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Preston67 said:


> Yes it is a good setup that will work. I've been running 22/32 with a long cage XTR derailleur and X01 10-42 since early last season and not only does it work great I am still on the original cassette and Shimano chain.
> I've never been happier with my gearing.
> I recently added the Goat Link but I can't say I really noticed that much difference, it might have improved coming off the 10t by 5%.


Curious. I thought you couldn't run a big cassette on a 2x, even with a long cage.

Do tell....


----------



## brusko74 (Aug 7, 2012)

I just recently installed a goatlink 11 on my set up. I too have a sram 10-42 cog set with Shimano shifter and derailleur. Shifting from 10 to the next cog then back is better with the goatlink 11. Before, there was some hesitation either when going up or down the two mentioned cogs. The goatlink fixed that.


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

I have been running XTR Di2 with the XX1 cassette (and Dura-ace chain) for six months and the shifting is excellent. I don't often get onto the 10T as most of my riding is either up or down steep technical trails. I run a 32T Absolute Black Oval front and the entire system feels smoother than the XX1 it replaced (but the XX1 was very finicky as far as B-Tension was concerned). I will be adding a Goat Link 11 just because they claim to improve shifting efficiency and see how that goes.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

JMac47 said:


> Curious. I thought you couldn't run a big cassette on a 2x, even with a long cage.
> 
> Do tell....


Nothing to tell, after all Shimano sells it with a 11-40 XTR and 11-42 in XT, its not that big a jump. Considering they are now announcing a 46t it sounds like they designed it that way from the beginning. I wonder if the goat link is more about the 10t vs 11t than what's on the other end.

The only other thing I would add is it shifts like a boss. I've got the new side swing XTR FD up front and have never missed a shift up and down. I'm extremely torn on the idea of putting electronics on my bike, but its a lot easier to ignore the siren song of Di2 when this system works so well. 620% gear range, and yes I often use it all in the same day here in Washington.


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Guys. 
Any recomendatiins reg XX1 caswttw and XTR 11s shifter. 
Does it matter at all or is just personal/money factir. (leaning towards KMC DLC)


----------



## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

So, referring to my previous post, 10-42 cassette and 30 or 32t chainring on an xtr rear derailleur, do I need a gs short cage or an sgs long cage for this to work?


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

most likely med or long cage if talking mtb.

look in the manual or specs for the rd on the site it will state max cog. get the shortest that will do the job. 

short road rds will do 28 on a road bike and about 30 on a mtb and sometimes even a 32. since the hangers are in different sports on road bikes and mtbs.


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

@ Dirt Bringer GS model derailleur works perfectly with XX1 cassette without needing any extra b-tension screw etc. SGS only required if you are running a triple front.


----------



## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

So I've got an x01 Cassette on order, and was wondering, how do you work out chain length for this specific setup? I've got a Santa Cruz 5010 with a 28t narrow-wide chainring, and will be using XTR GS rear derailleur and xt or xtr shifter. Eventually I'll probably step up to a 30 or 32 tooth chainring but in the interest of saving money at the moment I intend to stay with 28. Any issues I'm going to run into here?


----------



## cannondave (Mar 3, 2014)

For your setup 1x single, I would go big cog to big cog then add 4 links.


----------



## chadadally (Jul 8, 2013)

*Best way for future bigger cog*

Ignore the standard ways of big big and add links. If you want the most chain for future bigger rings simply wrap the chain around 10t, through derailleur, and around smallest chainring you plan to run. Then remove links until the chain gets the derailleur to move forward and chain is not slack. That way you have the longest acceptable chain for your shortest setup. You will have enough chain for a 34t still. I run a 30t and a 36 T all with same chain. Only adjust the b screw for better shifting between setups.


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

chadadally said:


> Ignore the standard ways of big big and add links. If you want the most chain for future bigger rings simply wrap the chain around 10t, through derailleur, and around smallest chainring you plan to run. Then remove links until the chain gets the derailleur to move forward and chain is not slack. That way you have the longest acceptable chain for your shortest setup. You will have enough chain for a 34t still. I run a 30t and a 36 T all with same chain. Only adjust the b screw for better shifting between setups.


Except this way you have not accounted for chain length at full suspension travel in one's lowest gear. Admittedly I cannot think of a trail situation where I would use full travel when in 42-32 but I would still set my bike up to account for at least 1/2 - 2/3 travel in that gear.

Then, as per every full suspension bike set up guide in the world, take the time to remove the lower shock bolt, drop shock out of the way of the rear triangle/ linkage and move the rear wheel through travel to check that the derailleur is not going to get over extended (think hyper extension of the knee if it bends backwards too far). They all say to check derailleur stretch at full suspension travel. That is how many links one should use.
In all these forums there is too much focus on the 10T, the exact gear that gets used almost none of the time if one is riding technical trails. Sizing the correct chain length is about not destroying the rear derailleur due to suspension action whilst riding off road.

For those that don't want to go through the process and have an XL Nomad 27.5 the correct number of links for a 32T chain ring, on an XX1 or XTR GS rear derailleur, is 112.


----------



## mtnbikfrut (Sep 18, 2008)

*XX1 cassette, chain, chainring + XTR RD/shifter excess friction in the 42t*

I did the shimano switch after reading about all the success in this thread. I'm shifting well but in the 42t there seems to be excessive drag when pedaling the drivetrain forward slowly, or pedaling backward. This is the case no matter where I have the b-tension. I have the Newest XTR RD, rd-m9000 medium cage.

I'm on an IBIS HD3, 142mm back end.



AndrewBikeGuide said:


> I have been running XTR Di2 with the XX1 cassette (and Dura-ace chain) for six months and the shifting is excellent. I don't often get onto the 10T as most of my riding is either up or down steep technical trails. I run a 32T Absolute Black Oval front and the entire system feels smoother than the XX1 it replaced (but the XX1 was very finicky as far as B-Tension was concerned). I will be adding a Goat Link 11 just because they claim to improve shifting efficiency and see how that goes.


----------



## grizzler (Mar 30, 2009)

Made the switch today. Pretty happy with it, shifts great. Need to sort out crunchy chainring though :/


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

Update: I have installed the Lindarets Goatlink 11 (GoatLink 11 ? Lindarets) and the slight change in length and angle means the pulley wheel can run closer to the cassette cogs all the way through the range (ie slightly more chain wrap) and the shifting is a more crisp. Not life changingly better but noticable even with the precision of Di2. Certainly probably means a slightly longer life for cassette and chain.


----------



## brusko74 (Aug 7, 2012)

mtnbikfrut said:


> I did the shimano switch after reading about all the success in this thread. I'm shifting well but in the 42t there seems to be excessive drag when pedaling the drivetrain forward slowly, or pedaling backward. This is the case no matter where I have the b-tension. I have the Newest XTR RD, rd-m9000 medium cage.
> 
> I'm on an IBIS HD3, 142mm back end.


Sounds like your chainring is a few millimeters off from the frame (towards the outside). Maybe a bad chainline?

Edit: I answered too soon. Where is the drag coming from? Pulleys? Chainring? Cog?


----------



## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Just wanted to post my experience here. I found this thread quite useful when piecing together a drivetrain recently.

My setup is XTR900 GS r. derailleur, SP41 housing, fancy new polymer cable and SRAM GX 10-42 cassette.

Initially, I was using my (properly sized) XT Sil Tec 11speed chain with the above set up and the shifting was surprisingly bad. It basically "worked" but it would hesitate and stutter here and there. I couldn't get perfect shifting in both directions, particularly in the middle to bottom of the cassette. I was worried that it was the fact that I'd bought the "cheap" GX cassette with it's seemingly lesser construction.

So I bought a Goatlink 11. This might have helped a bit, but the stuttering hesitation remained. Again, totally usable, but not quite what I wanted out of my expensive purchase.

Next, I removed the Shimano 11 speed chain (basically brand new, clean and lubed) and installed a SRAM GX chain. Problem solved. XTR-level shifting. No more hesitation and remarkably quieter in the big cogs where chainline is not ideal.

I was quite surprised that the chain made such a difference. In the past I've never seen any real difference in shifting mixing and matching SRAM and Shimano chains and cassettes.

Well done SRAM. I'm becoming (grudgingly!) a fan.


----------



## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

I've already posted this before in this or another thread : the SRAM chain has a lot more play sideways, almost double of the XTR.

Put the chain parallel to the end of the table, hold down the end with your thumb and take 8 links and move away from the edge untill you can't move any further. Do the same with the XTR chain, notice the difference in distance you can move?


----------



## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

I gave up on the XTR 11 speed because of the stiffness of the shifter. It shifted fine. Just required more pressure than my 10 speed XT. 
I'll probably sell the shifter and derailleur to anyone that makes me a decent offer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 53x11 (Jan 28, 2014)

There is a RaceFace Turbine Cinch crank set currently installed with Shimano 11speed sprocket.

Video: 




Backpedal issue was really bad, it took 1/4 turn for the chain to drop 3 rings down

Since then I installed One Up 4mm spacer with 18t cog (18T Sprocket + Spacer [ 1x11 ] - OneUp Components US) , and removed 17 and 19t cogs. Backpedal improved but I want to improve it further!

Question 1: So I read up that Atlas cinch crank set has a chainline of 48.5mm vs current Turbine Cinch 51mm. So is that correct , if I replace Turbine cinch with Atlas it will give me additional 2.5mm of chainline?

Question 2: If this is correct, would Garbaruk.com 28tooth 47mm chainline or Wolftooth 49mm oval cinch chain ring will give me additional mm inwards? Link here: 
Race Face Cinch Melon - Direct Mount - Oval Chainrings
Direct Mount for Race Face Cinch, boost chainring ? wolftoothcomponents.com

Question 3: Do I need new Bottom bracket or existing Turbine bracket is good for Atlas Cranks?


----------



## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

^try one of the cinch rings first before a new crank, much cheaper and should have the same effect as the change in the cassette!


----------



## cdalemaniac (Jun 18, 2007)

18 pages all pretty much stating sram cassettes work with shimano derailleur and shifters. Can anyone tell me if XTR 11spd cassette works with SRAM 11spd. Derailleur and Shifter? Don't want to upgrade my freewheel body or wheels. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fuzzz (Jun 20, 2010)

Gonna try X01 with xtr M9000 but which chain to use...right know I have xx1 RD and Campa Record chain..sram original chain was terrible...after changing to campa records the sifting smoother but still not perfect I have pretty good mehcanics but sill not sharp and smooth gear change. I did my wifes scott scale full XT M8000 and the shifting is perfect and crisp...
So which chain?


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Try the Campa chain and let us know how the shifting works. From what I've heard on 11 speed you can use Shimano, Sram, Campa, or KMC 11 speed chains. Personally I'm running XTR M9000 rear derailleur and shifter with an X01 cassette and the shifting has been great with Dura Ace and Ultegra 11 speed chains. The Dura Ace chain snapped on me during a race and the shop replaced it with an Ultegra chain. I can't tell the difference in the shifting so the only difference must be just a few grams and $$.


----------



## fuzzz (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks Stonerider...will report...cause really dont wanna use sram chain...campa chain really did improvement on shifting....


----------



## fuzzz (Jun 20, 2010)

So no luck with campy record chain with Absoluye black oval chainring...here is some proof:
https://static4.album.ee/files/1180/30/large_29507585_OqZT.jpg

Used it and workes peefectly with X01 cassette and XX1 derailleur...

So which chain....HG900 xtr or Sram XX1?


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I've ran both the XTR chain and the PC71 SRAM chain. I can't say I noticed a difference although I might give a very slight edge to the Shimano chain (using a blackspire front big ring, unknown small ring). This is with X01 cassette and shimano derailleurs. However the Shimano chain requires fixing the chain by pressing in a replacement pin rather than a quick link, which isn't that bad as long as you have stocked up on the replacement pins beforehand. However - I've never had to fix the Shimano chain in the field but after install you have to break off the extra length of hte pin. In the shop you just cut it with ***** or fail it using pliers, but I've always wondered how difficult it would be to break that stub off on the trail using a rocks or something. Also you are not supposed to be able to cut and reassemble the chain without these pins. That is the main reason I went to the SRAM chain. YOu can either wrestle the master link off (which I've done many times but is very difficult without tools, in the field, with grease or rain) or just cut and shorten the chain with the breaker.


----------



## cannondave (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm using xx1 chain with x01 cassette, absolute black oval and xtr mech.
Always used kmc chains, but after reading all the posts here I chose to try the sram xx1..!!
So far it's all been flawless  only time will tell on longevity..


----------



## fuzzz (Jun 20, 2010)

Did it! 
Xtr derailleur/shifter
X01 cassette
Sram direct mount front chainring
XX1 Crank
XX1 Chain

Will see...tonight is the cruising time with almost 2000 cyclist in Estonia https://m.facebook.com/tallinnbicycleweek/posts/?ref=page_internal


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

Preston67 said:


> I've ran both the XTR chain and the PC71 SRAM chain. I can't say I noticed a difference although I might give a very slight edge to the Shimano chain (using a blackspire front big ring, unknown small ring). This is with X01 cassette and shimano derailleurs. However the Shimano chain requires fixing the chain by pressing in a replacement pin rather than a quick link, which isn't that bad as long as you have stocked up on the replacement pins beforehand. However - I've never had to fix the Shimano chain in the field but after install you have to break off the extra length of hte pin. In the shop you just cut it with ***** or fail it using pliers, but I've always wondered how difficult it would be to break that stub off on the trail using a rocks or something. Also you are not supposed to be able to cut and reassemble the chain without these pins. That is the main reason I went to the SRAM chain. YOu can either wrestle the master link off (which I've done many times but is very difficult without tools, in the field, with grease or rain) or just cut and shorten the chain with the breaker.


About as easy to break off the extra pin section as it is to open a master link (especially 11 speed) without pliers. You are still breaking the chain to remove the damaged link with a chain tool anyway. I have "emergency" pressed a Shimano pin and re-inserted it with the chain tool to get home. Can't say I would trust it to stand up and hammer on the gears but it works to get one home or back to the car.

I have moved back to XTR HG-901 chains as I had two KMC SL11 Ti-N chains (from the same batch) fail within 8 days of each other. Got thrown off the bike both times with some minor injures as a result. A few choice trail side expletives let me tell you especially when the second one failed. Perfect and new drive train in every other aspect. Third chain from same batch on shelf waiting for RA from KMC


----------



## fuzzz (Jun 20, 2010)

So...first cruise with xtr/X01 was flawless...pretty smooth...to be 100% satisfied...have to by Goatlink 11...but still it's night and day compare to XX1 shifter and der.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

I've been running the XTR/XX1 set up for a couple of weeks and overall pretty happy. Shifts are very fast and for the most part precise. 

Initially I had some issues moving out of the 2 smallest cogs but taking a link out of the chain solved that. As others have said here, chain length is crucial. 

Shifting into the 42 cog is never a problem, and shifting down the cassette (from largest cogs to smallest) is very fast. 

Overall it has that refined XTR feel that we all love (the shifter feel itself is perfect) but I'm not convinced the shifts themselves are 100% as smooth as it could be so at some point over the summer I'm going to pick up an XTR cassette and OneUp 45T. I already have the Dura Ace/XTR chain. Gains an extra 140 grams or so but curious to see if it's more smooth. 

My set up (and some pics if you're interested in the instagram link below):

XTR RD
Goatlink 11
XTR crank arms
OneUp 32T ring
XX1 cassette
XX1 chain


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

jon123 said:


> I've been running the XTR/XX1 set up for a couple of weeks and overall pretty happy. Shifts are very fast and for the most part precise.
> 
> Initially I had some issues moving out of the 2 smallest cogs but taking a link out of the chain solved that. As others have said here, chain length is crucial.
> 
> ...


I have the Goatlink 11 and I think it makes a bit of an improvement (hard to tell as Di2 just shifts it anyway). Worth the $ as far as I can tell.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

AndrewBikeGuide said:


> I have the Goatlink 11 and I think it makes a bit of an improvement (hard to tell as Di2 just shifts it anyway). Worth the $ as far as I can tell.


I'm using the Goatlink 11. I never tried it without so can't compare.

The shifting is for the most part very good, very fast 85-90% of the time but there are those other times where it's a bit clunky and doesn't shift instantly, where it's lacking that Shimano refinement.

I can't help but feel this set up isn't perfect.


----------



## -Todd- (Jun 13, 2011)

How much longer for Shimano to release that extended range cassette? 46t 11speed? 

Thought it was coming in June?


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

I ended up taking off my Goatlink 11 and found shifting to be quite a bit better without it, with the XTR rd in stock form. Quieter, much more smooth, more XTR-like shifts.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

After a lot of reluctance I tried the Goatlink. My xtr shifter and rear D with xx1 cassette has been flawless for more than a year, but the marketing (mainly from company reps on this forum) and forum members led me to try it. Why not, it's an inexpensive part and my local shop said it'd be a freebie.

Gave it 15 hours of training before taking it off. Not because it was bad, but because it had zero improvement on my already perfectly set up drivetrain (always sp41 housing, clean cables, I know what the hell a b tension screw does). My drivetrains are always the quietest in the group ride and are almost di2-like quick and reliable. Maybe for some setups a goatlink is great, as the reviews said, and I don't doubt it, but for my needs & wants it was a lateral modification: no better or worse. 
If you like it, great. If not, great. Truly a first world problem.


jon123 said:


> I ended up taking off my Goatlink 11 and found shifting to be quite a bit better without it, with the XTR rd in stock form. Quieter, much more smooth, more XTR-like shifts.


----------



## fuzzz (Jun 20, 2010)

Made a 45euros investment to GOATLINK...hmmm without goatlink and XTR chain...thats the system I have and its perfect right now. Shifting is very quick...yes not on all cogs but that's the X01 cassette I'm blaming...
XX1 chain was gdmn noisy and sloppy....XTR is more quiet and works well.


----------



## JT79 (Jul 29, 2013)

I'm seeing August 17th for the Shimano 11-46 cassette on Art's. Anyone know where you can find one sooner than that?


----------



## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

JT79 said:


> I'm seeing August 17th for the Shimano 11-46 cassette on Art's. Anyone know where you can find one sooner than that?


If you are a Shimano R&D athlete or ambassador, a race team spares' box (but probably not as they have the legs to run 11-40 or 11-42T) or if you are best friends with a Shimano Rep. Mid August the official release date for lots of Shimano goodies: cassette; XT Di2; Di2 App and possibly the new ME7 and ME5 shoes.


----------



## Chonggo (Jul 12, 2009)

JT79 said:


> I'm seeing August 17th for the Shimano 11-46 cassette on Art's. Anyone know where you can find one sooner than that?


Maybe you'd like to try Sun Race's version? It's now available.
SunRace MX8 Cassette MTB 11 Speed Black Chrome11 - 46 T

I'm thinking this is better than shimano because it has 11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-36-40-46 and only the 46t is aluminum.

Shimano runs an 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-46. The 37 to 46 is a huge jump (24%) pretty much like their mega range and both the 37 and 46 are made of aluminum.
Landed: Shimano XT 11-46 Cassette ? ChainSlap


----------



## JT79 (Jul 29, 2013)

^^ Thanks. Good point about that last jump - that's a huge gap.


----------



## ocxray (May 30, 2015)

A question for those of you running the XTR RD-M9000 GS medium cage derailleur and XTR SL-M9000 shifter. How many gears are you able to dump with a strong push of the thumb lever (ie, when you hit a sudden uphill pitch)? 

My current setup is the 10 speed XT shifter/ rear derailleur from 2014 and on that setup you can downshift 4 gears at once with a full push of the thumb lever, and upshift 2 gears at once with a strong index finger pull. Have Shimano retained this feature in the M9000 series? I would think it would be critical for a 1x11 drivetrain and is one reason I want to go Shimano over SRAM, but the reviews I'm reading only talk about a "double" downshift and make no mention of the ability to do more with a strong thumb lever push.


----------



## jrhilado (Sep 8, 2011)

ocxray said:


> A question for those of you running the XTR RD-M9000 GS medium cage derailleur and XTR SL-M9000 shifter. How many gears are you able to dump with a strong push of the thumb lever (ie, when you hit a sudden uphill pitch)?
> 
> My current setup is the 10 speed XT shifter/ rear derailleur from 2014 and on that setup you can downshift 4 gears at once with a full push of the thumb lever, and upshift 2 gears at once with a strong index finger pull. Have Shimano retained this feature in the M9000 series? I would think it would be critical for a 1x11 drivetrain and is one reason I want to go Shimano over SRAM, but the reviews I'm reading only talk about a "double" downshift and make no mention of the ability to do more with a strong thumb lever push.


Yes, downshift 4 gears and upshift 2 gears. Just tried it a min ago.


----------



## K9-Usurper (Jun 12, 2007)

jrhilado said:


> Yes, downshift 4 gears and upshift 2 gears. Just tried it a min ago.


Okay, just to be clear...

- You can upshift (use your thumb) and total of 4 gears (upshift to an easier gear)

However, to downshift into an harder gear...

- You can downshift with your thumb 2 gears
- But, you can only downshift with your index finger one gear!!!! Whereas, with XTR 10speed (and maybe 10speed xt? I dunno?), you can downshift two gears!

Only being able to downshift with your index a single gear came as quite a surprise to me after upgrading from 10 to 11. A big bummer (and something often left unmentioned) in my opinion.


----------



## ocxray (May 30, 2015)

K9-Usurper said:


> Okay, just to be clear...
> 
> - You can upshift (use your thumb) and total of 4 gears (upshift to an easier gear)
> 
> ...


That's a major bummer. I have always used my index finger to upshift and thumb to downshift. Just feels way more natural to me. Not sure why they would design it that way... kind of forces you to use your thumb for upshifts which will be a big adjustment for me. Do you know if the 1x11 XT shifter is the same way? Or can you do the double upshifts with your index finger on the XT 1x11 (XT SL-M8000)?


----------



## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

With the XT you can definitely doubleshift to harder gears (smaller sprockets) with your thumb only. Index can shift one gear at the time. For some weird reasons, even the thumb double shift is not working all the time for me- Even a strong push only gives one shift in some gears......


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm still debating if my 10-44T X01 cassette and M9000 RD can benefit from this goatlink....anyone out there use this same setup and can give report?


----------



## Chonggo (Jul 12, 2009)

chrisingrassia said:


> I'm still debating if my 10-44T X01 cassette and M9000 RD can benefit from this goatlink....anyone out there use this same setup and can give report?


I have used sram GX 10-44 with Shimano xt 11 speed shifter and RD with no goatlink and it worked well with our a problem. I installed a 45t with 11 speed shimano cassette on my wife's bike with xt shifter and RD, no goatlink and it also worked well with no problem..


----------



## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Chonggo said:


> I have used sram GX 10-44 with Shimano xt 11 speed shifter and RD with no goatlink and it worked well with our a problem. I installed a 45t with 11 speed shimano cassette on my wife's bike with xt shifter and RD, no goatlink and it also worked well with no problem..


*Exactly* what I needed to know. Cheers!!


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I personally noticed no difference using the goat link on a long cage XTR RD with 10-42 X01 cassette.


----------

