# Learning to climb



## joelhunn (Aug 23, 2009)

Backstory, 57 years old. Asthma (mostly controlled), I rode road bikes for years and due to some health problems, gave it up. We moved to the DuPont NC area a couple of years ago and with my overall health much improved, I decided to start trail riding. 

I am really enjoying being out but the hills are kicking my butt. Currently riding a Canfield hard tail with a 1x11 drive train. 32 to11/46. Anything I can do to make climbing easier while I get myself back into shape?


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

An easier gear might help, you could replace the 32t chainring with a 28t. Ebike? Beyond that not much. Attitude can help, learn to enjoy the climbs, or at least tolerate them.

Good luck and keep at it!


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Ride singlespeed for a while.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Velobike said:


> Ride singlespeed for a while.


Ha, that might eventually help but I doubt it will make the op's climbs any easier while he's getting in shape. On the other hand walking the hills might be easier for some than riding them


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Yep, a lower gearing will help. You just need to understand that, like any exercise, you just have to work your way up in endurance. Your fitness will improve, just give it time. My wife started mountain biking at age 58 and had to stay on flat "rail-trail" type rides. Last year at age 65, she managed a 3000 foot climb up to a 9800 foot ridge! You'll get there.


----------



## SoDakSooner (Nov 23, 2005)

smaller chainring or pick up something with a 12 speed. Can get a bigger cassette that way.


----------



## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

SoDakSooner said:


> smaller chainring or pick up something with a 12 speed. Can get a bigger cassette that way.


12 speed is the best way to go for a good low end 1-by drivetrain. Otherwise, you lose the high end.

Losing weight (on the bike and/or on the person) helps too.


----------



## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

Same age, same riding history, same took-some-time-off background - no asthma, but I live at 7000 ft elevation and ride higher. Definitely drop to a smaller chainring like a 28t, your 46 in the back should be fine, and ride lots. Stay with it, be patient (unlike me) and don't get down on yourself when you have to walk all/part of a climb sometimes. I had to tell myself there's no shame in walking, only in quitting. As JB and others have stated, attitude is a big factor too - you're not likely to get back to where you were in one season of riding, so don't overdo it and hurt yourself. Steadily, I got better and started dropping riders I used to chase.


----------



## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

I run 26 x 46 low on my 29er. Don't need it that often, but when I do, I'm glad to have it.

As far as losing the top end, when I'm in 26 x 11 high, I'm going as fast as I'd ever want to anyway. 

As far as climbing goes, for now, just settle in to a cadence you are comfortable with, and try to hold it. 

But as they say, it never really gets easier because you just go faster as you get stronger.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Pisgah said:


> 12 speed is the best way to go for a good low end 1-by drivetrain. Otherwise, you lose the high end.
> 
> Losing weight (on the bike and/or on the person) helps too.


True but an NX cassette that would fit the op's hub isn't that significant of a range upgrade and would cost maybe $300 or so to convert? To get the full benefit of 12 speed you need an xd driver (or Shimano microspline) and even more $$$.

A 28t steel ring would only cost around $20, and I do think a lot of people, especially beginners, overvalue the importance of a high gear for trail riding.


----------



## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

*joelhunn*, unless I missed it, what kind of climbing are you talking about?

For me, drawn out non technical climbs come down to cadence kinda fitness. How long can I crank using medium power in a not so low gear. Endurance is key to improving that. For steep techy stuff, it's all about short bursts of all out 100% power for me. In that case, I use low crawling 1x12 gearing (28x50).

If you're climbing steep tech, I'd consider a lower front ring. In doing so, if you don't want to loose top end, go with something like e-thirteens TRS+ cassette with a 9-46 (511%) range (assuming your drive is XD).

As I get closer to 60, my 50t cog is becoming by best friend for climbing steep stair step roots and rock gardens.


----------



## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> True but an NX cassette that would fit the op's hub isn't that significant of a range upgrade and would cost maybe $300 or so to convert? To get the full benefit of 12 speed you need an xd driver (or Shimano microspline) and even more $$$.
> 
> A 28t steel ring would only cost around $20, and I do think a lot of people, especially beginners, overvalue the importance of a high gear for trail riding.


Good point. The constant changing of standards and interchangeability is getting by me these days.


----------



## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> A 28t steel ring would only cost around $20, and I do think a lot of people, especially beginners, overvalue the importance of a high gear for trail riding.


 +1 on moving to a 28 up front. 
Try to ride 4 or 5 times per week, even a 20 minute ride with one short hard-ish climb counts for a ride. Less than 3 rides per week and you're stagnating or losing fitness. Don't overdo it and try to get fast in a month, just try to keep regular. 
When I got back into riding, my general rule was; no more than 3 days on the bike in a row, no more than 2 days off in a row (with exceptions of course). It still works quite well.


----------



## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

I'm not sure you need to change cassettes or chainrings yet.

But you may need to play around with gears to help you get up climbs. What starts out ok or tolerable in a sustained climb becomes too high rather rapidly as you lose momentum and gain steepness and start to mash. That mashing is gonna "kill" you until you get into better shape.

You want to drop down that gear or two or three before you really start mashing to avoid shifting/derailleur problems. So, you may begin a climb thinking you're spinning too fast and finish it grateful for that low gear. Or if you can back off on the power for a moment or two, downshift as you go up.

There's a bit of an art to it.

Also, for conditioning, don't devalue going up a gear or two when you're in the flats. I have a tendency to spin too much and I can go up a gear or two, still spin pretty good, but I'm also building more strength. Of course, that's going to require a downshift or two when you head uphill, but it can make a big difference on your progress with conditioning.'

If you are already climbing in your lowest gear, feel free to ignore all of this. But the ever-changing nature of off-road trails can make shifting more critical in ways you don't experience road riding.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

You can get a sun race 11-50 11speed cassette. My wife and I vacation in WNC twice a year. 10 days and no breaks if it doesn't rain much, this year we switch from 32 to 30 chain rings with a 50 cassette by the end of the trip. We dont have long climbs where we live.


----------



## joelhunn (Aug 23, 2009)

Thanks for all of the replies. My ride that really hurt was 10 miles mostly single track with 1400 ft of climbing. I think I may go 28 up front for awhile until I get my strength up. The technical climbing over rocks and roots is probably as much technique as conditioning. Hopefully it will come


----------



## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Gearing and pacing.

You need a gear that you can maintain a steady pace with....all that (unsustainable) surging that people do while climbing is their downfall.



joelhunn said:


> The technical climbing over rocks and roots is probably as much technique as conditioning. Hopefully it will come


That's about right, people with one or the other will usually struggle, people with both don't.


----------



## Slowdownhill (Oct 20, 2015)

If you can find riding partners who are just a bit better, it may help to focus on the fun and disregard the pain. You may be stronger than you think.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)




----------



## HHL (Nov 24, 2004)

Hills of any kind have the potential to be like an interval workout. You spin until you've reached your max where you aren't in pain, sucking for wind, you get off and walk for 4-5 minutes and then go again. You will eventually not need to stop as much, or at all depending on the craziness of the hills. Listen to your body and learn about what happens when you spend 7-12 seconds at max output (7 seconds, and you can keep going for awhile, 12 seconds, and you are fried for awhile). Learn to stop your "interval" before you do that. The smaller chainring as suggested, will help. You can stand and pedal for a change of pace, but you have to back off your cadence or you will hit max output quickly. After 51, forcing the issue is a game of diminishing returns. Be willing to walk.


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

OP don't need 12-speed. However, a 28t chaninring will greatly take the sting out of those climbs. Go back to 32t when the climbing skills catch up...


----------



## HHL (Nov 24, 2004)

Nice allegory, Whalenard, I think?


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

joelhunn said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. My ride that really hurt was 10 miles mostly single track with 1400 ft of climbing. I think I may go 28 up front for awhile until I get my strength up. The technical climbing over rocks and roots is probably as much technique as conditioning. Hopefully it will come


1,400' in 10 miles is a lot of climbing, don't think of 28t as a crutch of any sort or something you need to progress out of.


----------



## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Have you analyzed how your bike fits you? Small adjustments in saddle position (height, fore and aft) make a big difference for me, especially in climbing. Being able to pull back on the bars through the pedal cycle seems to help amplify power, in my case at least. I've been making some small gains in climbing speed and endurance recently by, in part, tweaking my position on the bike.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

HHL said:


> Nice allegory, Whalenard, I think?


Absolutely


----------



## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Don't ride up grades less. Ride lesser upgrades. 

(or something like that)


----------



## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

agree on the 30t chainring. For me it comes down to relaxing the upper body, opening my chest to breath, pushing the pedals thru the heals and just spinning, like you would on a road bike.


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I agree with post # 2 28 front, look youtube for visual(technique)...
Practice. 
Focus on exhaling, it makes room for fresh air and smile.
We should be totally relaxed except for the muscles needed.
I would always stay seated(easier to maintain traction) for a few months.
Riders in your area know the proper tire.


----------



## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Get a smart trainer and do some climbing on Zwift.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Same here, 26 x 11-51 Shimano XT 12 so, I rarely walk, just sit and spin, having a wide range allows me to choose how hard I want to work.

A full suspension would also help with climbing, more comfortable and better traction.

For fitness building, ride gravel roads like the one up Black Mountain



Ladmo said:


> I run 26 x 46 low on my 29er. Don't need it that often, but when I do, I'm glad to have it.
> 
> As far as losing the top end, when I'm in 26 x 11 high, I'm going as fast as I'd ever want to anyway.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Umm, not really, 140' per mile is fairly mellow. I'm not saying it's easy for everyone, but around here by that's half of the gradient we climb on a normal day and there are steeper grades that really do hurt ya.

The key is getting comfortable and settling into your spin, just like road biking, but you gotta get some gears or you will burn out before you fitness up.

The chainring you're have now is waaay to big and it's your primary issue; thems flatland gears.



J.B. Weld said:


> 1,400' in 10 miles is a lot of climbing, don't think of 28t as a crutch of any sort or something you need to progress out of.


----------



## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

head straight to 28t but also go oval.
a good oval puts the power down like a 30 but spins up like a 26 in the middle

also check out

Berkshire Sports - Bicycle Gear Ratio Comparison Calculator

to see the exact difference gearing changes make

select the development button i felt its a simpler measurement to understand

i run a 28 x 10-42 was going to go 12 speed but ended up liking the oval so much i never did put on my eagle upgrade

its a few bucks more for an oval but far worth it. will feel weird the first five minutes but thats it.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Umm, not really, 140' per mile is fairly mellow.


OK tough guy, I'm sure someone will come along soon who climbs 5,000' per mile saying how mellow your rides are 

It's a lot for me and pretty much everyone I ride with around here, and evidently it's a fair amount for the op. I was only saying that he shouldn't feel any guilt for getting a smaller chainring, or that he's somehow weak for doing it.


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Almost daily i enjoy my front 22 on my fat for 5 months.
It is my bike, my choice.
Only some some internet ... might comment negatively.
20 speeds still rocks ! ! !
Even after 4 hours i climb, not fast but i enjoy it.
My Bud/Lou are dumb, they do not tell me the distance
so i go by the hours.
I am no stud but my fat is studded


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

The ability to climb is mostly in your head. 

I remember the day I became "a climber". I actually recall approaching a climb that I dreaded and thinking to myself, "****, here it comes. The crappiest climb in the park." I sat down, clicked down to my lowest gears and prepared to spin it out, as best I could. 

I was sitting there hating every pedal stroke, when it hit me (and I don't know why). I was going about the whole thing completely wrong and I decided I need to kill this climb instead of letting it kill me. I clicked back up to my middle ring up front and clicked up three gears in the back and stood up and decided to turn myself inside out for the next 1/4 mile. It completely changed my approach to climbing.

That was around 2003. In 2008, I bought my first SS. By 2010 I was running about 50/50 geared and SS. I haven't been on a multi-geared mountain bike since 2015. 

The human body is remarkable. It'll pretty much do what you train it to do. You may have to dig a little deeper than you thought you were capable of, but most of us are capable of so much more than we think we are. That's the biggest reason that I'm anti-E.


----------



## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

"For fitness building, ride gravel roads like the one up Black Mountain "

That's just mean.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> OK tough guy, I'm sure someone will come along soon who climbs 5,000' per mile saying how mellow your rides are
> 
> It's a lot for me and pretty much everyone I ride with around here, and evidently it's a fair amount for the op. I was only saying that he shouldn't feel any guilt for getting a smaller chainring, or that he's somehow weak for doing it.


You're missing the point. It's not about how tough you are, I'm just a guy riding like a guy who knows a guy that rides.

I ride a lot, I've ridden all my life, and I've stayed fit, so what I can ride comfortably is going to be steeper and longer than the average joe. No worries, I ain't judging anyone but me.

If the OP or anyone like the OP (there are plenty) want to improve their climbing and they're "coming off couch" or are new to climbing, they need to be prepared mentally as well as physically AND they gotta have the proper gear.

As a climber, I ride a wide range 12sp with some serious stump pulling gears: 26t x 51.

Do I use the 51t all the time? Oh hell no, but it's there when I need it, like when I need to "coast" while riding up a hill. The idea that we can use a bail out gear to rest is a newish concept to mtb, it's more of a touring mentality than a roadie thing; I come from a touring background.

So, the OP and his brethren need to have the gearing so they don't bust their balz as they work to improve their mental and physical conditioning. Speaking of mental conditioning ...

Climbing, once you factor out stamina, strength, and equipment, is all about your mental approach to the climb. If you look at a hill and see a challenge, see a struggle, or just see a change in the trail, each viewpoint will determine your approach to the climb.

Now I'm not saying I love each and every climb, in fact I despise climbing on fire roads and paved roads, literally I will ride twice as hard on a single track to avoid a road climb. Yeah, it's all mental.

I think you can start winning the mental game if you feel comfortable when riding (gearing) and you take reasonable steps to improve your game by selectively choosing what and when to ride.

I took a quick twenty minute ride this morning in my backyard, 500' of climbing in a couple miles, took the dogs, watched the sun come up, then had coffee with my bride and now I'm at work.

babysteps


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

ddoh said:


> "For fitness building, ride gravel roads like the one up Black Mountain "
> 
> That's just mean.


I used to run up that stoopid hill training for ultras, so yeah, it's a bit ugly, but some nice views


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Dupont can sneak up on you. The climbs aren't as long or steep as Pisgah climbs can be. Getting a 28t or even a 26t chain ring will help a lot. Not sure what your favorite trails are, you can get away with a lighter faster tire in the lower Lake Imaging are. The upper area gets damper and the rocks and roots are slick for quite ( especially corn mill) a while so stickier tires help but slow you down. A 2.3 DHF and recon rear would be a combination that would still be fun on the downhills


----------

