# New all around frame with ~450mm chainstays: Spire, Megatower, SJ Evo



## Blown Jammer (3 mo ago)

Need a new enduro-ish frame. Im 6'2“, feel best on modern XL 29ers, and I'm sold on chainstays around 450mm to balance the big front triangle. Surprisingly there's not a lot of options hitting that mark for me. The best options I'm seeing are : Spire, the new Megatower, Stumpjumper EVO. Last bike was a GG gnarvana, which I really liked, but I want to try something different this time.

I ride pretty much exclusively chunky trails with somewhat steep climbs. Will be used for big alpine rides and bike park days as well. I want to save energy on the climbs, but don't care about cleaning every tech move on the way up. I prefer magic carpet traction over poppy but something in the middle could work too since this will be my only bike.

All 3 have pretty similar geometry. I'd probably put a +1deg angleset on a spire to make it climb better and shorten the wheelbase a touch. The sjevo has less travel and is probably the lightest, right? Supposedly the spire pedals a lot better than you'd think. I'd build either three up with similar parts anyways. Basically I want the unicorn Goldilocks downhill ripper that isn't too much of a pig to climb 3000ft on.

I hope to demo all 3 but it's not looking like there's a spire in my area available. So, has anyone been fortunate enough to try all 3 and could share what they think?


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

Adding a 4th option to the mix- Banshee Titan.
Pedals up great- efficient traction monster.
Kills the DH.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I’ve owned two of the three on your list (Spire and StEvo). My suggestion: Banshee Titan. Easy choice.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Forbidden Dreadnought


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## Blown Jammer (3 mo ago)

I think I want to avoid high pivot because of the pedal drag. Never tried one though. 

Titan looks good. I'll take a better look at that.


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## sean44 (Dec 10, 2018)

Blown Jammer said:


> I think I want to avoid high pivot because of the pedal drag. Never tried one though.
> 
> Titan looks good. I'll take a better look at that.


I would try one first. Biggest drag is from the Ethirteen chain device not the idler for me.


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## Blown Jammer (3 mo ago)

Could you tell me a little more about your perceived differences between the 3?


Blatant said:


> I’ve owned two of the three on your list (Spire and StEvo). My suggestion: Banshee Titan. Easy choice.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

My first thought when reading your post, was also a Banshee Titan. Although, I must admit that the Forbidden Dreadnought is another great option, and maybe also the Raaw Madonna v2.2.

I've ridden a Spire in size L (only for one lap at Santas Villiage though), and own a Banshee Titan in size L, although I've never ridden them on the same trails, so an exact comparison is difficult. FWIW, I'm just an inch shorter than you (6'1" barefoot, but long 36.5in pedal to saddle distance).

The most obvious/memorable differences now a few months out is that the Spire is noticeably slacker than the Titan (62.5 vs my 64.5, but the updated titan is 64.0), and had a much lower front end (the stack height is much lower at 628mm, vs my older Titan at 644mm, and the updated Titan with 652mm). If they'd had an XL Spire available, that likely would have been a better fit for me. I don't remember much in the way of how the Spire pedaled, but thought it was fine (although was setup for someone 20lbs heavier than I am). The Titan feels very much like an all mountain/big mountain bike to me. Its something I don't think about pedaling up stuff on it, but will take pretty much whatever you throw at it. My largest day on it so far was 4200ft/21 miles, and I didn't feel the bike was an anchor/pillow sucking up my efforts.

The compact chainstays on the Titan are 452mm. You can get the long dropouts, which I think are 9mm longer, for a 461mm chainstay, if thats appealing to you.

I will admit the Forbidden looks really nice as well. 450mm chainstays on size L... but they lengthen under sag/compression. So in use they'd be longer. I'd personally be really curious to try one. I hear once you ditch the lower chainguide for the oneup version, it pedals pretty normally as long as the chain is clean. IIRC pinkbike did a test on efficiency with a high pivot with an idler, and came to the conclusion that it was ~2% less efficient than a bike without one. So take that for what you will.

Also, the Raaw is basically a "German Banshee", if you want to think about it like that. Another small company, that only works in Aluminum. The Raaw Madonna has a bit more reach, and about the same stack as Banshee, and a touch shorter chainstays (adjusts between 440, 445, and 450mm, also through modular dropouts). I particularly like their design ethos, particularly on making big giant bearings, with huge actual seals, and external cable routing.

I'm really happy with the Banshee. But those two are the others that I'd be most interested in trying (along with the GG Gnarvana that you already had).


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I like the Spire or the Claymore right now.


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## Strath.cona (Jun 2, 2014)

Riding the Raaw Madonna in XL, originally in 450mm chainstays but reduced it to 445mm recently. Bike feels very planted. Heavy with a coil but still climbs well and doesn’t feel that heavy. I went shorter chainstays cause I found bunny hopping very difficult with the longer chainstays. One of the first bikes that feels like it fits me.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

11053 said:


> Adding a 4th option to the mix- Banshee Titan.
> Pedals up great- efficient traction monster.
> Kills the DH.


Or Prime if you want less travel.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Oh, you also might consider these others. All were ones I looked at at one point or the other.

Kona Process X: Its got 450mm chainstays in the long position. A good descender, but I hear it doesn't pedal quite as well as the other Process bikes.

Propain Spindrift: 445mm chainstays, so just shy of what you might be looking for. But a super efficient pedaling platform (was the second most efficient bike in Pinkbikes Enduro bike fieldtest that year), and its a 180mm rear, 180-190mm front travel bike, which should be a pretty good match for your "bike park, and also some pedaling" designs.

Nukeproof Giga: Another 445mm chainstay bike. Also reportedly pedals pretty well.

Rocky Mountain Altitude: Multiple chainstay positions, with 448mm stays in the long position. Reportedly a great bike.

Privateer 161: 452mm chainstays in the P4 (XL), 446mm in P3 (L). Great bang for your buck here. Similar in concept, and many overall geo measurements to the Raaw Madonna, but less polish (no bearing shields, frame protection is mastic tape), adjustability (no different shock stroke rocker lengths, or chainstay length settings), and cost.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

RAAW Madonna gets my vote. I've had a couple of Titan's as well and for me the Madonna is the better bike. They are quite similar but the Madonna's back end deals with chatter with more control and composure.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Blown Jammer said:


> Could you tell me a little more about your perceived differences between the 3?


Sure. 6’2, 34 inseam, +2ape, 180 pounds, experienced rider in Phoenix. I owned two StEvos in S5 and an XL Spire. Been riding XL bikes for years, but lately have been dabbling i downsizing due o how big these bikes are getting. My current Titan is size L, but I’ve owned it previously in XL.

Spire: Man, I like Transition, but I just did not get on with this bike. Way too much reach for my taste, bike was too big when descending. I didn’t find the rear suspension to be all that great (Float X) and the bike rides like it has less travel. Except when climbing. If I did a lot of shuttles or park, maybe in a smaller size, but not a bike I want to spend saddle time on.

StEvo: I see the appeal of this bike. It does many things OK, reasonably light, great geo adjustments, easy to get. I found the midstroke soggy and the bike really doesn’t climb all that well. It’s OK if you can soft pedal, but drop some torque on it and it sinks, making the low BB even worse. Great descending geo, but again the suspension quality can’t keep up. I was not fast on that bike up or down. That’s with a DPX2 and then Float X. Probably solvable with a better shock. But it looks like an ebike.

Titan: Heavy, some minor quibbles with seat insertion and IS brake mount. Somewhat expensive for an aluminum frame. But, man, the bike delivers. Exceptional pedal performance for a big bike both up and down. It doesn’t do anything weird. It just works. You’re going to find sizing recommendations to be wonky. In the real world, at 6’2 — unless you have unusual dimensions— you’ll be able to make L or XL work Having owned both, I prefer L marginally, but the XL was fine.

I, too, really like the Raaw Madonna, but it wasn’t available last time I was in the market.


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