# Opportunity to build a 100% Custom, inexpensive, well made light



## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok people always post "If they would only listen to what we want" and "If they would only build what we want". Well now we have an opportunity to build a completely custom light, built 100% to our specs. GearBest.com has brought our request to Yinding, who has one of the best made Chinese lights and they agreed to build it for us. We tell them what we want, they will build a sample for testing and if it's good, we will start a group buy of 500 on multiple sites. When we reach that goal it will be built.

Now let the conversation begin on what light you would like to be built


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

3 up
10 step or programmable driver with at least 2.5 amps on high
Decent mount 
interchangeable optics with extras supplied
visor thing to reduce glare when leaning over bars
Red or orange indicator for button

As a bonus, a decent battery box to sell alongside it that comes free of cells. It could be sold as a lighthead only, or with this case as a bundle


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

1) Better switch than the dual Yinding. Something that sticks out like the Solarstorms and it easily triggered with full finger gloves. That's the worst thing about the current light.

2) Possibly a triple that is driven hard with good heat sinking and dissipation. Something that is brighter than the current dual light.

3) A set of optics (with differing spreads) that are either come with the light or as a separate kit that are drop-in replacements for those already in the light.

4) Neutral white leds

5) Off mode that is hidden, or separate switch for off. Hide the strobe mode also.

Other things that would be cool, but aren't necessary

1) Comes with a second mount that makes it gopro compatible, or hope-universal style clamp mount (with a cam lever) (Hope Link).

2) Programmable driver to select individual mode brightness. An even more advanced model might allow you to program the number of modes (2, 3 or 4).

3) A wired remote that can be disconnected from the light and is relatively low profile when mounted on the handlebar.

4) Spare parts kits to replace broken parts.

Something like that shouldn't be hard for them to pull off, they are already making one of the best inexpensive lights on the market. I hope they know that. I guess it all depends on much they are willing to change.

Another great deal put together by GJHS. Give him some positive reputation points, he deserves it.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Well, that about covers it, varider. Nice summary.

One comment- bigger fins or other heat-dissipation features would allow the existing2 LEDs to be driven considerably harder- might be sufficient without need for a triple.

Wired remote could be an option, as could GoPro mount.

The program feature might as well be standard- it doesn't add any cost.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I mostly agree with suggestions above. Will like to add:


- 20AWG cable
- quality connector (lowest resistance as possible, but same Magicshine design)
- thick enough wall where the leds PCB resides
- deepper/higher fins to improve heat dissipation
- fins orientation changed by 90 deg.
- in the case of same 10step driver UI defined operation (it is defined by resistors combinations):
 when to fall back due low voltage
 when to fall back due overheating
 when to stay permanently in the safe mode until unpluged


- we must not forget to claim waterproof design 
- hi enough PWM frequency so we won't experience flickering
- high value input and output capacitors to compensate loosses
- .... I'm shure I'll think of more

Just a few words about 10 level submenu driver. Why to use it? In order to satisfy most people needs selecting levels might be essential. For the ones who want it simple we just define defaults, the rest will adjust brightness to their particular needs. No one can then complain the mode spacing isn't apropriate. Since human eyes are logarithmic function, not linear, having defaults 33/66/100 seeing so often is useless. To the human eyes step from 66 to 100% is very small.

We should also make a sketch of a new light. It shouldn't be to hard.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Small! One of the absolute best things with the dual Yinding is its size.


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## Corvette (Nov 20, 2005)

ledoman said:


> We should also made a sketch of a new light. It shouldn't be to hard.


Great idea. The more details we provide to Yinding, the easier will they be able to produce the light. Having another design as an idea or making a compact 3-LED lamp from scratch is quite a different thing.

Personally, I'll take at least two 3-LED ones if we make it happen. Probably a few more once my friends see how good it is (since discovering this thread I had to order 4 Yindings already - see!)


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Appel said:


> Small! One of the absolute best things with the dual Yinding is its size.


That is in contradiction with the power we want. 3 leds running at 2.5A (ie. about 25W) needs quite some heat dissipation ie. surface area. This can be achieved by higher fins, but the look will be bulkier anyway.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Corvette said:


> Ledoman: We should also make a sketch of a new light.
> 
> It shouldn't be to hard.Great idea. The more details we provide to Yinding, the easier will they be able to produce the light. Copying another design or making a compact 3-LED lamp from scratch is quite a different thing.


I can try to make one for start, not very detailed though. It will take some days since I don't feel very well. We can take the same Yindig shape and internal design, just extend it to suits 3 leds and change fins orientation. We must not forget the driver should be completly different (boost) and we need to cool it too.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> 1) Better switch than the dual Yinding. Something that sticks out like the Solarstorms and it easily triggered with full finger gloves. That's the worst thing about the current light.
> 
> 2) Possibly a triple that is driven hard with good heat sinking and dissipation. Something that is brighter than the current dual light.
> 
> ...


Pretty much everything above ^....( well said varider )

The only thing I'll add is that I don't insist on a wired remote. Like varider said though one that was removable would be preferred ( or two versions, one with remote, one with standard switch on back of lamp )

Other than that I have nothing more to add other than I'd like it to be a 3-emitter/optic lamp made similar to the original Yinding. Lastly if someone is going to make a lamp like this it should also be available in CW emitter as well as neutral white XM-L2 emitter.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Putting an extra LED in will definitely run into cooling problems. I'd like to see the two led yinding with quality wiring, bigger screws, deeper finning, 10 mode 3A driver and the option of XPL or XPG. 

If you want a three up, buy two and a splitter cable so you can have a 4up


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Also if they eliminate "off" as part of the mode rotation, they can also eliminate the fade-to-next-mode operation. I prefer the instant changes.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

varider said:


> Also if they eliminate "off" as part of the mode rotation, they can also eliminate the fade-to-next-mode operation. I prefer the instant changes.


Agree. It is nice to see the fade-to-next-mode the first time but when you start to use the light you just want it to operate fast!


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## Corvette (Nov 20, 2005)

This is the design that I had in mind: Review: Gloworm XS 2200 Lumen Bike Light - Mtbr.com

The question is how/where can this light be improved without any making production significantly more complicated. But if Yinding could create a similar light to Gloworm XS, just like the current lamp is similar to X2/Gemini Duo, it would be a very competitive offer for a way better price.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Last couple of rides I have had (on the bar) a Yinding with eliptical lens pointing down in front of the wheel and a XT40 pointing straight forward. Been very happy with this setup!

This made me think that if you have 3 LEDs in a row (like on the gloworm XS) it would be an improvement if one of the LEDs would point slightly downward.

Here is a bad sketch on how I picture myself the LED board. 








If I had such a light I would put an eliptical spread lens in the middle and spot lenses on the sides. 
It would complicate the housing though...

Did anyone understand this?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Appel said:


> Last couple of rides I have had (on the bar) a Yinding with eliptical lens pointing down in front of the wheel and a XT40 pointing straight forward. Been very happy with this setup!
> 
> This made me think that if you have 3 LEDs in a row (like on the gloworm XS) it would be an improvement if one of the LEDs would point slightly downward.
> 
> ...


Yes that is exactly what I keep saying.









Also 1xLED, 2xLED, 3xLED modes because you do not need the high beams for climbing, one XM-L2 with diffuser is plenty. And two XM-L2 High beams is great for bombing, you don't need low beams but option to use both would still be there. Stepless dimming (long press up, long press down) in each mode.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

How many prefer an advancement of the original Yinding, with better fins and an improved driver? Post you opinion even if it's not the majority.

Appel, you don't feel that the optics currently in use put enough light down on the front tire? One of the best features of the original is the smooth beam without a heavy hot spot. If any complaint, people seem to say it lacks throw so to point one down will negate any extra throw from the additional LED. Maybe the side optics can be optimized for throw. Are we looking for an all in one light, a great bar light or great helmet light?


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## Corvette (Nov 20, 2005)

+1 piece for improved original as well. It's getting too hot on summer rides, plus I would like a lower setting for climbing.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Funny things is that someone (sorry forget who) compared the heat to the Gemini Duo and it was the same. So Yinding has great thermal heat transfer. I'm thinking more fins and a metal mount will improve cooling.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

GJHS said:


> Appel, you don't feel that the optics currently in use put enough light down on the front tire?


I'm just brainstorming here. I understand that my idea above would complicate the construction quite a lot. A design similar to gloworm XS would most certainly become a great light.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

GJHS said:


> How many prefer an advancement of the original Yinding, with better fins and an improved driver? Post you opinion even if it's not the majority.


Count me in for an improved double. 
I think a triple would be too bulky and heavy for my needs- I'd rather run separate helmet and bar lights.


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## ToSloTrk (Mar 25, 2009)

GJHS said:


> How many prefer an advancement of the original Yinding, with better fins and an improved driver? Post you opinion even if it's not the majority.


I'm much more interested in improving current light. Love the small size and am ok with it being a bit bigger to facilitate better cooling.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

GJHS said:


> Funny things is that someone (sorry forget who) compared the heat to the Gemini Duo and it was the same. So Yinding has great thermal heat transfer. I'm thinking more fins and a metal mount will improve cooling.


Heat transfer is good (no doubt better than most), but still can be improved. I won't insist on that, just let people know how.

Direct thermal path from the leds to the PCB is essential. Mostly this is done with copper PCB like Noctigons. That way heat is transmited away very fast, several times faster than with tipical alu PCB. This would gain longer led life time and better efficiency (ie. more light at same current). The rest of construction can be the same, except we need higher fins - more surface area for better cooling.

Just want to let you know. Otherwise I'm in for one improved version with 10 level driver and NW led tint. This of course doesn't mean we need to give up with 3led light. It will take half a year at least anyway - so the light for the next autumn.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Count me in for an improved double.
> I think a triple would be too bulky and heavy for my needs- I'd rather run separate helmet and bar lights.


I don't get it. Tripple should be aimed mostly for the bar use. Runing both helmet and bar is mandatory in any case if you want to be on the safe side. Of course YMMV.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Forgive my opinion here, yet I would like to get away from cloning anything. Glowworm has an excellent, beautiful light that they spent money to develop and make. I don't want to steal anyone's ideas nor their business. 

The one thing that I like the most about the Yinding is its size and versatility. I would like to create a new light keeping size in mind and improving cooling without cloning anything. I don't think we need to post a photo and say copy this, we have a great team of users with an excellent opportunity to create something that no one has before.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

GJHS said:


> Forgive my opinion here, yet I would like to get away from cloning anything. Glowworm has an excellent, beautiful light that they spent money to develop and make. I don't want to steal anyone's ideas nor their business.
> 
> The one thing that I like the most about the Yinding is its size and versatility. I would like to create a new light keeping size in mind and improving cooling without cloning anything. I don't think we need to post a photo and say copy this, we have a great team of users with an excellent opportunity to create something that no one has before.


By me, I've never think I would clone anything, yet some things have to be similar if you want it or not when you have same amount of leds and TIR lenses. Talking about the one in my mind only front pannel might look very similar otherwise it should be quite different.
But you probably reacting only on the photo suggestion.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I always run a helmet mount light and some times a bar mounted light as well. 

Things already said I agree with: 
20awg battery cable 
go pro mount 
changeable optics 
programmable ui with programmable drive current - i would hate having more than 3 levels or having to cycle through strobe ect. 

My wants seem a little demanding and out there : 

Led voltage and battery voltage matched at least some what close 
I.E. cree XHP50 and 4 cell li-ion with step down converter, target efficiency of 95+%. 
PWM only on very low settings 
low setting of 200 lumens on 1 watt 
35mm round form factor for future upgrades 35mm 
35mm and XHP 50 should make a very nice tight beam 
75+ CRI and 4000k color temp from led
led on standard 20mm star affixed with small screws and thermal paste

For helmet mount I want a wireless switch on handle bars that also displays the status of battery that is in my hydration park. 

Thermally I think a copper core with large and very thin fins and an aluminum or composite surround could work very well and be as light is aluminum also open to machined aluminum 

the large 35mm size should offer good thermal performance 

the xhp50 looks like it could be a game changer with 200 Lumens per watt at lowest drive and over 2500 at 19W. 

At 11w my MK-R in easy2led m36 enclosure stays quite cool.


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## Corvette (Nov 20, 2005)

ledoman said:


> ...yet some things have to be similar if you want it or not when you have same amount of leds and TIR lenses. Talking about the one in my mind only front pannel might look very similar otherwise it should be quite different.
> But you probably reacting only on the photo suggestion...


Allow me to explain - directly copying another light was no way what I had in mind, I find this unethical. The attached sample of a 3-LED light seems a logical design progression from 2-LED Yinding, by simply "extending" it horizontally. So the final product would be only similar, just like both Yinding and Gloworm X2/Gemini Duo are similar to the original - Lupine Piko.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm done with 2 LED lights (at least for awhile). I like the idea of the center lens being elliptical and aimed SLIGHTLY downward. I still think the outer two could be XP-G2's. 

What about something like a 3 LED version of the HD-016? The shallow flood reflector in the center, two for throw on the outer, upper lens hood, and battery level indicators?

Whatever design you push for, go for a programmable driver and upgrade the pcb to direct thermal path copper (like the noctigons).

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

IM with the simple expand to 3 eimitter and following upgrades to both:

Copper emitter disc (direct thermal even better)
Optics options (they have the good optics right there in hong kong )
programmable driver with strobe from off position only.
Better mount options (gopro, qr handlebar)

Wish list: Freaking remote switch, clip to hydropack strap instead of trying to fiddle between helmet and button and not knock light to bad angle in the process.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok next question is how much should it cost?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

GJHS said:


> Ok next question is how much should it cost?


It should still be cheap. Maybe they could tell us how much light they can build for specific price points. Personally I wouldn't spend more than $40 or $50 for a lighthead. Extra's could include optics sets, alternate mount, remotes.

If it was on par with something like the Glowworm XS then it deserves a much higher price point, but I probably wouldn't buy one. If it's just the current light with a better switch and a few minor improvements, then it wouldn't justify a huge increase in price.

I still don't understand what these guys are looking to do. Are they just trying to come up with version 2 of dual Yinding, or they looking at building an entire new product.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

By "These Guys" you're referring to the forum. I went to battle for everyone who wanted a custom light built to their specs. Yinding improved the mount and button already and would have stopped there. They didn't want to upgrade the driver, so after repeated requests they have agreed to make a new light if GearBest guarantees an order of 500.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GJHS said:


> Forgive my opinion here, yet *I would like to get away from cloning anything. Glowworm has an excellent, beautiful light that they spent money to develop and make. I don't want to steal anyone's ideas nor their business. *
> 
> The one thing that I like the most about the Yinding is its size and versatility. I would like to create a new light keeping size in mind and improving cooling without cloning anything. I don't think we need to post a photo and say copy this, we have a great team of users with an excellent opportunity to create something that no one has before.


While I understand your sentiment I have to disagree in part. When you sell or promote a product that competes with another you take sales away from the competition...period, regardless of how original or unoriginal the competing product is. One company makes cars as does another. Many of those look very similar. It can't be helped. If you want to compete some basic ideas and designs have to be considered universal. If this wasn't so then every product sold and every business model would be a monopoly. I don't think anyone wants that. There's always going to be the first person with an idea and there's always going to be someone who is going to copy that idea. It's just the way free enterprise works.

The Yinding 2-up is already a clone and takes business away from others ( as has already been pointed out ). At this point it makes no sense to say you don't want to make clones unless the hypocrisy doesn't bother you. There are hundreds of bike lights and many of those come very close in design and appearance to others. Gloworm, as much as I love them, doesn't own the basic idea of a three-up bike lamp. There are other 3-up lamps. The DIY'ers have been making them for years as have the Chinese. Gloworm just happens to be one of first to market a very nice higher quality / functional 3-up lamp and has done so very successfully.

Personally I don't think I'm trying to put GW out of business by trying to get someone else to market another affordable Chinese ( Yinding-ish ) 3-up lamp using optics that is perhaps a little better made than some of the other cheaper Chinese made lamps. Heck, if you wanted the design to be a little more original in appearance you could make the sides of the lamp "hexed" shaped rather than oval, whatever rings your bell. It doesn't have to looked exactly like a Gloworm. It doesn't have to function exactly like a Gloworm or be an exact GW clone. I have no problem with any of that. It just has to have 3 emitters in a row using serviceable optics coupled with a UI that makes sense. Heck, if a 3-up Solarstorm with replaceable OPTICS was made I'd be perfectly happy with just that. Either way if the Yinding factory doesn't want to make a 3-up I figure it's their loss. Other people will buy the 3-up GlowormXS , Solarstorm X3 , D/X Ultrafire D-88 L2 and then try to change or mod it as they see fit ( as they already do ).


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> It's fine with me. If they're not going to make a 3-up because they can't get 500 presales on a lamp that doesn't exist than I guess they aren't as bold as I thought they were. Somewhere in China there are people designing and marketing lamps that absolutely look awful and I'm sure they aren't getting 500 pre-orders before they make and sell those monstrosities. Anyway, no big deal if they want to forget the idea. I figure the loss is theirs.





Cat-man-do said:


> Either way if the Yinding factory doesn't want to make a 3-up I figure it's their loss. Other people will buy the 3-up GlowormXS , Solarstorm X3 , D/X Ultrafire D-88 L2 and then try to change or mod it as they see fit ( as they already do ).


Alrighty then, I think you made your point clear.

I was only trying to say we shouldn't aim for an exact replica of the Glowworm. Of course it will look similar by its very nature being a 3 wide shape. I would prefer an original, as possible, design. It's just one opinion in large group.


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## bigflamingtaco (Oct 26, 2013)

Corvette said:


> This is the design that I had in mind: Review: Gloworm XS 2200 Lumen Bike Light - Mtbr.com
> 
> The question is how/where can this light be improved without any making production significantly more complicated. But if Yinding could create a similar light to Gloworm XS, just like the current lamp is similar to X2/Gemini Duo, it would be a very competitive offer for a way better price.


I have both the XS and the X2, and while yingding can come up with something at a much cheaper price point, it will not be competitive to Gloworm's products. You can't skip around the engineering and material costs that makers of high quaility products
must spend and provide a competing product. A $50 yingding will come with cheap cables that will crack within a year, a poor beam pattern that wastes too much light, and a lack of a fully programmable user interface.

Don't get all hurt in thinking I'm slamming yingding, because I'm not. A $50 yingding costs 1/4 of what I paid for my XS, and it's fine for anyone that wants a $50 light. Just don't say it's comparable to Gloworm, or competition, because it's not.

My Ford Escape probably has the same headlamp bulbs as a 458 Spider. I'm sure the spider owner would be pissed if he/she had to put up with the light pattern coming out the front end of my Escape.

Here's my input on the light. Eliminate flash. All of it. That crap has got to go. I'm in a gearbest group buy on a flashlight and thank Bob we got that programmed out. Flash mode is so 2004, but these Chinese makers don't seem to get it.

Two brightness AND three brightness modes. There are times when cycling through that third level is such a pain. And times when you need that third setting for controlling power draw.

BTW, by the time you start getting close to having all the features you want, the price starts looking not worth it. Make a concerted effort to keep the cost down, or you'll end up with a failed group buy.

Good luck! I'll subscribe as I'm considering getting some lights for my boys.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well current set up: $26 roughly IIRC. Built to spec, so upgrades to driver and optics Id go $30 (includes couple spare but different pattern optics). And I dont expect a new emitter board, seems they use a singular design and thats fine, just copper base plate, preferable to the likes of sinkpad/noctigon direct thermal path. Pay extra $5 with remote (if done correctly which is ONLY button is the remote, not a bunch of other bs)

They fixed the littler things, but the KD style driver I wont budge on,lol. 4+10 programming is so freaking sweet with cycle modes hold off, hold again for strobe.

3x head, same thing dont need to get all crazy about every little perfecting detail, save that for the expensive ones what have separate stars and emitter angles. the 2 different types on emitters not a bad idea, but I aint even picky there, thats what optics are for.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok guys are there any volunteers who want to help me with this? Trying to manage everything on both sides of the world is getting to be a lot. I already worked hard to get this to happen and could use some help now with this big endeavor.


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## XCJagge (Dec 18, 2014)

YD2 already has quite excellent lumen/weight ratio, I can't see much point making a larger and heavier 3 led version. Instead I would like to be able to plug two/three of these lamps together and control them both with just one button. Slave mode.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

@XCJagge: Agree. multi-Yinding is great solution and would be tops with a single control. Though advantage of entirely separate lamps, you can set each to its own individual level of brightness, which gives you multiples of modes. No driver I know of allows for different different levels for multiple emitters when all on together, and would be complicated to implement with a single control button.

Oddly enough, a two or three YD setup might be ideal were the current circuitry actually _reduced_ in amperage, so that a range of lamp optics could safely be run from a single four cell battery pack. Any combination could operate continously on High (with less risk of overheating in the same small case) to provide different beam patterns and levels of brightness without dimming and its attendant issues with PWM such as flickering, whining, and interference with other electronic devices. Thinking either the 10ºx45º or 20ºx60º lenses for low beams on the bars, current 15º for mid-range, and 10º optics or reflectors for high beam or helmet mounted spot light. Individual YD circuitry would have to be optimized for use in either case (because all bar, 1 cell pack; bars + helmet, 2 cell pack.)

My three cents.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

In what format does GB and Yinding want the requirements for this light?
A complete construction design with complete blue prints for electronics and body?
Or "just" a list of user requirements?

Does anyone here have the skills to come up with a complete construction design? 

I'm just a java programmer so I don't have much to contribute regarding the details...


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

GJHS said:


> By "These Guys" you're referring to the forum. I went to battle for everyone who wanted a custom light built to their specs. Yinding improved the mount and button already and would have stopped there. They didn't want to upgrade the driver, so after repeated requests they have agreed to make a new light if GearBest guarantees an order of 500.


No I meant the guys at Yinding. What are they willing to make? What price range?


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

The skies the limit. I have confirmed it again with May and the only stipulation is an order of 500, which I think is fair.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Well, that's encouraging! 

Well let's go for the dream light then. A triple that is super bright, a fully programmable driver, water resistant, a kit with optics, improved heat fins, go pro or cam lever mount etc. The whole nine yards. 

I've been confused as to what they were willing to do, I thought they were just going to be making improvements to their current light. 

Keep up the good work GJHS. I'm not sure sure how I can help you, since you have been the point man all along. 

So how is this going this process going to work? Are they going to be producing a prototype and sending it to you for examination? Then Gearbest puts up an order a pre-order page and once it gets up to 500 buys they produce the light?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> Well, that's encouraging!
> 
> Well let's go for the dream light then. A triple that is super bright, a fully programmable driver, water resistant, a kit with optics, improved heat fins, go pro or cam lever mount etc. The whole nine yards.
> 
> ...


Yep. If they are going to ask for 500 pre-orders there has to be a proto-type to commit to, even if it's just on paper. That way we could create a "sticky" for the group buy and when ( or if ) 500 orders come forward production could begin. I would consider that a fair idea. Of course a price tag is going to have to be added to the equation in order to get the pre-orders but that shouldn't be a problem. Give the first 500 a deal and then raise it after production.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep. If they are going to ask for 500 pre-orders there has to be a proto-type to commit to, even if it's just on paper. That way we could create a "sticky" for the group buy and when ( or if ) 500 orders come forward production could begin. I would consider that a fair idea. Of course a price tag is going to have to be added to the equation in order to get the pre-orders but that shouldn't be a problem. Give the first 500 a deal and then raise it after production.


Cat they will make a real, working prototype to test and make changes to. When it's perfect, then the presale will start, so I need to start this topic on other forums to get more people involved. I'm also going to ask that the main workers on this get a discount on the light. That's only fair, I think.

How do you suggest we continue? I need a person to help keep the ideas here together and I will need a tester. So a small group in charge would be best, since I am not the most experienced, electrically wise member.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Would something shaped sorta like this be too ungainly?

Yes I know there are already flashlights just as ugly that can attach to bars but AFAIK none of them have optics optimized for MTB. Fenix already does this quite succesfully but is limited by only 2x 18650/XM-L2.

Figured with a three [+] emitter lamp head, it's gonna hafta be wide or tall anyway. If it could mate well with a SolarStorm size 4 cell battery pack then might as well put everything together and eliminate the cables. Mock up looks a bit clumsy but finished product would of course be much sleeker.

Also thought of a way to convert optics from High Beam to Low Beam on the fly, from within *any* combination of emitters (1 LED, 2 LED, 4 LED, 6 LED). Will need some time get that demo fit for pics but should basically be compatible with both Original and New! Yinding designs.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Have to wait until dark to take some outdoor beam shots. Oh and of course the orange color micro-embossed mylar is for demonstration purposes only. Concentric circle pattern does disperse beam much like diffusing lens, suppose parallel lines would better simulate elliptical lenses.

"Deflector" needs to be ratchet-hinged to face plate and have a lip all around to fit over the plate when closed (become a lens cover.) Idea is that this thing can be angled from High through Mid to Low Beams. Should be constucted of 1.5mm alloy, rather than cut from the bottom of a cocoa container (sorry, am addicted) to serve double duty as cooling fin. Would be nice if there were a way to operate it remotely say with a screw cable, and have that also control modes, whether L-M-H or 1 LED, 2 LED, 3 LED, etc. Beauty part: simple ratchet hinged assembly could be swapped right into current Yinding without further mods. Anodized versions slated to ship with the improved control button will be a blessing, thanks again GJHS!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

How much more cooling u need, aluminum finned adapter and aluminum gopro mount. That's more heat sink than most lights. Alot of heat issues come from the inside as much as the out. Gotta get heat away from emitters as quickly as possible, slower that is hotter emitters get.

But the cover to keep glare down and cover lens is a cool idea.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> How much more cooling u need, aluminum finned adapter and aluminum gopro mount. That's more heat sink than most lights. Alot of heat issues come from the inside as much as the out. Gotta get heat away from emitters as quickly as possible, slower that is hotter emitters get.
> 
> But the cover to keep glare down and cover lens is a cool idea.


Cover does more than keep down glare, it is micro textured to distribute the beam much like a diffusing lens would. So when it is up all the way you have full spot light aimed toward the horizon, and the farther down you angle it the lower the beam drops and spreads. Will post test photos after dark. So far it's worked pretty well inside my entrance hall but there isn't enough room in there to get good pics. 

Yeah you do need to draw heat away from the emitters as fast as possible. Fortunately the real Yinding is pretty good that way inside, just the case is too small to keep up without a lot of ventilation.

Cheat to win!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice, the diffusing idea is pretty slick. I know there was talk regarding yinding heat issues didn't know how internals were addressed, right now im trying to figure out which neutral white is on the site cause yellowish 5c is a bit much for me.


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

A wireless system is a must, something like this

Xeccon Sogn 900 Bike Light with Wireless Remote Control

It has 2x buttons so is there a possibility it could change the light levels on 2 headlights?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

This is the way I think it should go. GJHS gets the prototype and takes some night beamshot comparison versus a Yinding dual, a Solarstorm X3 and X2 or whatever seems appropriate as well as a general review. 

The light then gets sent to Cat and Garry. Cat can give his detailed impression as well measure the temperature of the led emitter wall as the light in operation, he has done that in the past. Garry then takes a closer look at the electronics and measures the current coming from the battery. This system would take the pressure (and potential blame) away from GJHS. 

Does that sound good?

I would be willing to help also, but I'm just now sure what I could do better than those three men. We could also take up donations to defray the cost of shipping the light around (via paypal). I could also see myself chipping in a few dollars to buy lights for the three reviewers if Gearbest doesn't provide them with a free set already. 

Also, I don't think we need to design the perfect light that pleases everyone 100%. It just has to be better than the already good dual Yinding. Really Yinding needs to do some of the heavy lifting here, GJHS shouldn't have to be doing huge amounts of convincing to get this done. They are the ones who could potentially be doing huge amount of business because of GJHS and the mtbr forum. It's to Yinding's benefit more than it is to ours. We shouldn't have to twist their arm too hard. Of course we could be potentially be getting a great light for relatively low cost.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> This is the way I think it should go. GJHS gets the prototype and takes some night beamshot comparison versus a Yinding dual, a Solarstorm X3 and X2 or whatever seems appropriate as well as a general review.
> 
> The light then gets sent to Cat and Garry. Cat can give his detailed impression as well measure the temperature of the led emitter wall as the light in operation, he has done that in the past. Garry then takes a closer look at the electronics and measures the current coming from the battery. This system would take the pressure (and potential blame) away from GJHS....


I would have no problem testing the lamp as long as I know before hand what it is going to look like and how it is going to *operate ( *user interface ).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

well I'm honored that you mentioned me as a reviewer. I debated whether to speak up and offer to review as I'm not real in-depth with the electronics knowledge. I guess we'we'd really have to keep it between US members if we're shipping it around (otherwise we have some much more qualified reviewers available). 

I'm also going to be short on time to devote to a full review, but if we're sharing the load it shouldn't be too bad. 

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

@varider if you can summarize all the ideas here into one post, Thank you, that would be a big help. 

@garrybunk if you or @ledoman can post on BLF and get more people involved? I would appreciate it. If anyone knows a forum to post this on, we could get more involved.

@cat-man-do and @garrybunk, how close are you to NY? PM your states, no address needed, so I can see the shipping costs. If you would be willing to test, I will set things up.

Next up is starting to submit case ideas and pictures. Simple drawings are enough


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

No need for PM, no need for me to hide, I'm in western PA. I know where Cat is too (my old stomping grounds roughly), believe he's said it publicly before, but I'll let him speak for himself. 

I'm an Autocad drafter (just part of my job), but I don't really draft up anything like bike lights. Not sure I even have the time to try it. Definitely wouldn't be able to do any 3D rendering or anything like that.

I can post over at BLF, but I won't be able to until Tuesday (busy at work out in the field tomorrow).

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Gjhs: If more help is needed lmk, I have gear that allows me to to temp testing internally, and basic tests via my dmm. Can contribute for the heat management side of things basically.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Thanks Garry, it's good that you are close so no long shipping headaches. I know some people online prefer to remain secretive and I understand that.

I think rough sketches will be fine for now and Tuesday is fine for BLF, Thank you again.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Gjhs: If more help is needed lmk, I have gear that allows me to to temp testing internally, and basic tests via my dmm. Can contribute for the heat management side of things basically.


 Thanks, I will let you know


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GJHS, I live in the Greater Baltimore / Washington Area of Maryland. I'll give you my address when that becomes necessary.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok Thanks. Any case ideas?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> I debated whether to speak up and offer to review as I'm not real in-depth with the electronics knowledge. I guess we'we'd really have to keep it between US members if we're shipping it around (otherwise we have some much more qualified reviewers available).
> 
> -Garry


You've made valuable technical contributions to the forums so I thought it was a no-brainer.

That's not meant to exclude anyone else who is reading this. There's a few people on here that really understand driver design.



GJHS said:


> @varider if you can summarize all the ideas here into one post, Thank you, that would be a big help.


OK, I'll do it tomorrow unless you want to keep the ideas flowing for a couple of more days.

I'm no expert on case design or manufacture. I was thinking of just a wider case with some heat sink fins, similar to a gloworm. I don't think that Yinding could make those super thin fins though, it would make the manufacturing too expensive. I'm not sure how they are making the current case however.

Hopefully Yinding is doing some actual engineering on the heat removal or at least testing their designs.


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## juhake (Oct 26, 2007)

1:
How about having 2 separate buttons (up/down), more features to the buttons thru programming, if it is going to be wide (3 leds) lamp? There is enough space for that in a 3-led lamp.

2:
I like the different voltage colors in the button, too. I would like to program the levels, so that the red will start blinking at 10% or 5% at my wish.










EDIT
3:
include aluminium GoPro mount

Some manufacturers (not even the expensive ones) include them already, like Nitefighter with BT21 and BT70. You can still include the default plastic mount for O-rings, too, they cost pennies.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

varider said:


> You've made valuable technical contributions to the forums so I thought it was a no-brainer.
> 
> That's not meant to exclude anyone else who is reading this. There's a few people on here that really understand driver design.
> 
> ...


Ok, whatever you feel is best and Thank you.

Case wise, Longitudinal or Latitudinal fins?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Fins should be in direction of air flow, so in direction of riding. That way there is less turbulence and more air comes to the light surface. Idealy fins should start and end with no obstacle for the air flow - I mean no front and back plate should cover them.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I'd be glad to help too, but I don't have any more technical experience than the others mentioned.

I can certainly test the modes and settings for the software under many different conditions and give feedback, as a I have be been building DIY lights for adventure racers and ultra runners for years.

I bet few discovered that the KD has too much visible PWM flicker on the low settings, but it's a bit weird during snowfall, for example.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I should mention that I am currently building a "PVC Lumens Meauring Device" (common over at BLF now and they have proven to be pretty reliable) so I can provide some approximate lumen output measurements *IF* I can get it calibrated in time.

-Garry


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I personally don't care which way the fins go, as long as they adequately remove heat and the light doesn't overheat when _it's in motion._ I saw someone post a simple rule of thumb in the DIY section for the amount of heat sink area per watt, but I don't remember what it is.

I'm surprised we haven't seen more comments on this thread. I'll give it a few more days to summarize the ideas, but a majority of the posts are about the same.

Are Yinding giving us some feedback on what they can or cannot manufacture?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Nice, the diffusing idea is pretty slick. I know there was talk regarding yinding heat issues didn't know how internals were addressed, right now im trying to figure out which neutral white is on the site cause yellowish 5c is a bit much for me.


Well from what GJHS has posted, GearBest should currently be shipping genuine 3C Yindings. Haven't received one from this new batch yet, but NW XM-L2 3C SolarStorm X3 and KD MJ-880 clone are both bit yellow-green in comparison to the first Yinding I got with what is apparantly the "wrong" tint of amber/pink. No idea what bin it is but I actually prefer it to my 3C's, at least now while the trails are still bare. Tint is great on dead leaves, rock, tree trunks and branches. Makes them more legible than Cool White or even 3C, I think. OTOH, those latter two might be better once things green up, will be interesting to see how they compare then.

















Uh... sorry, dunno why my images got turned on their sides like that, not how they appeared when uploading.  Anyway, you can see how well earth tones respond to GearBest's "bad" Yinding. Second pic is the Yinding with my DIY orange deflector lowered pretty far down, helps illuminate the ground around the front wheel without cutting off the top of the beam too badly (because the lenses invert it?) Need a vertical pattern to diffuse the light more horizontally; unfortunately all the mylar I had at hand was manufactured with concentric circles, meh. Not the best pics either because I clumsily broke off the deflector before getting a chance to arrange the shots better and my fingers were starting to get numb... excuses, excuses.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm picturing a 3 LED light similar to this one at Amazon.









Fix the fins (longitudinal for better airflow across them), put two switches on the back (1=On/Off with press-n-hold for strobe, 2= mode change), standard GoPro style mount and make the remote with a removable plug (for those who don't want to use it). Move the center LED much closer to the lens (like the HD-016 does to give wide bright flood with no hotspot, and perhaps give it the elliptical lens (across top of lens only) type like Fenix used in their BT20 "dual beam" light. This might take some engineering to figure out how much of the lens to give elliptical pattern (or perhaps the entire lens). Outer two LEDs could use standard 20mm TIR optics and be easy to access to swap out. Programmable driver (like the KD one); two group programmable driver would be icing on the cake!

Fenix lens:









HD-016 showing flood lens (on left looking at pic):









-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

BLF thread created.

-Garry


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Remote control is a must by me, 2 buttons, up and down, hiden strobe but easily accessible if you need to warn someone (like incoming cars that do not care to turn off their high beams)...
4 modes, always starts in low mode. 
Multicolor battery incicator.
Maybe even use parallel cells configuration, with good quality samsung 2600mAh cells (because they are cheap and good) you would avoid balancing issue, they could make 2P, 4P and 6P battery packs and Nanjg 105c based driver with about 16 AMC chips (easy for modification) or double fet driver with 4.2V input.

UP button:
short press (so called "tapp") -> increasing light output
long/er press -> jumps straight to max output
press and hold -> fires up strobe (strobing while button is pressed, on release returns to previously used mode)
Down button:
short press -> decrease light intensity
long/er press -> jumps straight to lowest mode from any other mode (from OFF ->I dont know, someone could suggest some function to go here)
press and hold -> power off.
Pressing both buttons at the same time could also do something but you would probably need both hands for that.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

4.2v input will result in too much voltage drop in the cables/connectors thereby reducing output. 8.4v battery packs are also the standard. Other than that I like your suggestions. 

-Garry


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Biggest problem of 8,4V packs is balance charging at acceptable price.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Well I was wondering if it would be at all possible, for commuting to have something as Sirius mentioned but rather than strobe a kind of momentary "turbo " mode that you could use almost like the high beams on a car to flash someone or when you need an excess burst of light. This would max out current whenever it is held (a momentary switch) regardless of level you are using


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

As far as the look of the case design goes I would like something that a cross between the current Yinding and the Gloworm XS. The Yinding is a nice looking light, so I'm sure they can come up with something nice looking.

Hopefully it looks a lot better than that light that Garry posted, because that thing is UGLY. I want to beat it with a stick ugly. No offense Garry! If it looks like that then we will never get to 500 units pre-sold.

Also I see suggestion for an* All-In-One* type of light. *I would like eliminate that as a possibility*. Let's just keep this to a lighthead that runs a *standard 8V battery pack.* The reason being that most of us on the forum already have 2 or more battery packs of this type, plus the newer enclosure boxes that can be filled with 18650 cells.

I also see a lot of discussion about how the UI will work. In my opinion most of that will resolve itself if have a fully programmable driver. Not everyone is going to agree on the perfect setup.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

varider said:


> As far as the look of the case design goes I would like something that a cross between the current Yinding and the Gloworm XS. The Yinding is a nice looking light, so I'm sure they can come up with something nice looking.
> 
> Hopefully it looks a lot better than that light that Garry posted, because that thing is UGLY. I want to beat it with a stick ugly. No offense Garry! If it looks like that then we will never get to 500 units pre-sold.
> 
> ...


Very good post. I agree on most.

The look and appearence IS important. Standard 8v and standard connector. Super easy to use. Here I think like this. You have your gear shifters, break levers, suspension controls and your dropper post remote already on the bars. Maybe a Gps. You can't fiddle with a too complicated UI while on the track. Optimal for me would be a high beam/low beam switch, like on my car. I rather bring an extra battery in my backpack than having to think about battery consumption. This leaves heating problems. If that could be solved, then I am happy.

(The really good thing with a true low/high beam option would be that you would be able to use the light both in the forest and in traffic. But maybe one would end up too far from the existing Yinding with a high/low beam option. The only light i know of with a decent low beam is the philips saferide... Too bad...)


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Sirius9 said:


> Biggest problem of 8,4V packs is balance charging at acceptable price.


Actually there are some balance charging option that are acceptable, e.g.: Turnigy E3 Compact 2S/3S Lipo Charger 100-240v (US Plug) Using quality cells with minimum difference between them makes it a really simple process.

Back to the light - I think a wired remote is sufficient, no need to go wireless if this is going to be a bar light.


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## juhake (Oct 26, 2007)

MK96 said:


> Actually there are some balance charging option that are acceptable, e.g.: Turnigy E3 Compact 2S/3S Lipo Charger 100-240v (US Plug)


How does that charger work with Magicshine connector type 2s2p batteries?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It charges using balance wires, so you need to add a 3rd wire to the magicshine connector. Or the other way strip down the pack and solder the balance connector (jst-xh 3 wire). It is an affordable charger but the packs need a bit DIY.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Quick review of suggestions from BLF users (sorry if I miss some):

- Having aerodynamic body, with fins facing the right direction (sample:









- Dual emitters configuration for high output, yet able to produce decent runtime from 2S2P pack. 3-4hrs on medium mode.
- Copper MCPCB.
- Combination of wide and spot optics.
- Includes slow blinking and beacon modes.
- Ability to control brightness of the beacon/strobe modes
- Neutral White Tint Option 
- LED: 2xXML or MKR/XHP? depending on price once available. Tint should be selectable.

- Power: Two base modes (unlit areas, fairly strong but not max and city(low enough to not blind everything in front of you) easily accessible via double tap and tap&hold. Clicking through 4 modes or more on a bike gets annoying fast.

- Driver: FET-based, makes >3A easier. Potted for shock absorption.
Angle: Shouldn't blind cars; how about an insert slot for diffusion/upward angle reduction/lens protection (fine gravel tracks) plates?

- Mount: fast removal for theft prevention, something with a quick release skewer. Silicone padding?

- Case: Definitely waterproof, thermal fins parallel to driving direction. Magnetic switch like on dive lights might be nice, but probably too expensive.

- Price: <$30 excl. battery pack. Ideally battery pack & light separate orders and both below the equivalent of €22 so German customers can avoid additional import tax (idk about the limits in other countries).

- Option for a "Turbo", possible a press-n-hold momentary switch on a remote (to flash high beams or temporary need for more light).

- 2×18650 Cree XHP70 one piece light

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wow blf has serious demands for a $30 light.... Good ideas though(like proper direction on sink fins which 99% of lights out there have it wrong)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, BLF users can be a demanding bunch! I'd say many don't care about runtime, and they want max output. Sure a bike light with XHP70's or even XHP50's would be great until you realize your run time on high is like 5 to 10 minutes! (The XHP's are 6v or 12v emitters, so you'd need your battery pack to stay about 6+v (actual vF is higher at higher amps). About same as considering am MT-G2 emitter. 

-Garry


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Let's limit this to a light for *mountain biking*. None of this stuff about blinding other road users. Go buy another light that's made for that specifically.

I also don't think we can get custom optics that are like a car beam at this price point. I would be happy if just came with set of optics with varying spread, such as 5 degrees, 10 degrees, 15, 20. Or something like that.

Were not trying to reinvent the wheel here. From what I'm reading most of us just want a brighter Yinding (perhaps much brighter) with options for mounts and optics, programmable driver, triple led (for brightness) and proper heat sink. Basically a cheap version of a Gloworm XS type of light.

Hopefully something that will come in at a $40-$60 price point.

I'm also going to vote *no* on a turbo button. I want the highest level available in a regular mode rotation.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I agree with everything you said. Lets concentrate on turning the current Yinding into a triple and fix it's shortcomings. 

-Garry


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> I agree with everything you said. Lets concentrate on turning the current Yinding into a triple and fix it's shortcomings.
> 
> -Garry


What do you consider shortcomings? For me it's the driver, the mount, and the hard to press button.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yup, add programmable driver (2 group would be awesome) similar to the KD one, better mount (some type of quick clamp or GoPro style), better button, and add some more mass for heatsinking (I know that one is a preference as many like it as is). And keep it easy to swap optics (stick with the standard typical sized optics), including a selection would be a nice touch. Personally I could care less about a remote, but then again I don't have much actual riding experience. 

-Garry


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

garrybunk said:


> I agree with everything you said. Lets concentrate on turning the current Yinding into a triple and fix it's shortcomings.
> 
> -Garry


Why do we even bother with this then. Why don't we all just buy the (soon to come) NW gloworm then?

Sorry for this. I just want to discuss this on a non technical level. Would it not be great with a great mountainbike light that also could be used in traffic?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have separate lights, u need alot less light on streets vs trails. I'm for a triple yinding done right without anything hindering it by being used for urban traffic.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I just want to jump in and say the BLF group may be slightly unrealistic. To jump,this to a self contained light with everything for under $30 is not realistic and if you prefer to spend $140 for a Glowworm X2 lighthead, then this is all for naught. I'm thinking, built well to our specs, we're looking at a maximum $50 lighthead.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I was thinking about that price point as well. 50 seems fair for a well built triple that needs little to no modding out of the box


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Quick question, how much interest is there in 4 cell battery box? I may have a source, I just don't want to waste his time if there isn't any great interest. There is no commitment with this.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

GJHS said:


> Quick question, how much interest is there in 4 cell battery box? I may have a source, I just don't want to waste his time if there isn't any great interest. There is no commitment with this.


As a kit with new Yinding or a separate thing?


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

varider said:


> As a kit with new Yinding or a separate thing?


100% seperate


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

GJHS said:


> 100% seperate


You should probably start a new thread for it. This thread is already busy enough.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

GJHS said:


> Quick question, how much interest is there in 4 cell battery box? I may have a source, I just don't want to waste his time if there isn't any great interest. There is no commitment with this.


With or without protection?


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I would say without


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

id be curious as well on the battery box, but I have 2 SS protected cases, but still need a couple more cases yet.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok I just got word from May that this project will not continue with Yinding. Apparently there were some problems with the other custom builds and Yinding didn't act very responsibly. With the 3C builds they didn't believe the customers that the tint was wrong and GearBest is now having to fix it. So due to this, GearBest does not wish to ask them to build this light.

If you want, I can source another manufacturer to try and build this light or maybe there is another light we can get?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

That's too bad, GJHS.

Well, ledoman mentioned that KD is working on improving KD2's thermal management. If they can concurrently goose the circuitry up to 2800mA it might be enough of an improvement over the Yinding with its ~2200mA. FWIW, I don't notice any difference in brightness between my NW SS X3 and NW KD 880 clone despite the extra emitter in the SolarStorm.

Dunno whether NiteFighter has abandoned the market as it seems difficult to find their products for sale anywhere, but I'd be interested in the BT70. It's a cute mini 7-up using NW XP-G2 emitters, same great interface as on their BT40S which is a clone of MagicShine's MJ-872. Wholesales for $64 complete with 6800mAh Battery pack, 2A charger, additional wide diffusing lens, extention cable and hemet mount. Even the 5200mAh battery that came with my BT40S gives phenomenal runtime.









As you can see, GoPro style adapter is aligned the wrong way but sales director Andy Wong assured me it would be corrected. Anyway also comes with traditional MS style plastic mount and no doubt vancbiker's adapters would work as well. Again, not certain NiteFighter is still in business but can check.


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## Moguo (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm interested in the new 4 cell battery box


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I am interested in the battery box, but honestly I have enough now that I don't know that I'd buy one (unless it's THAT GOOD). A box with good working protection would be really nice too! And be sure to use thicker gauge wiring (20ga?).

How about trying to contact NiteFighter to do a custom build? I'm not sure on that 7x XP-G2.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm . . . anyone catch the BT21 on nitefighter's website?










Looks a bit different on this page. OH WAIT - this page is a BT20 model!










Not that I want this light, just curious about it (the BT21).

-Garry


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Hmm- 4 levels- Check. Bigger button on top- check. Waterproof- check. GoPro mount- Check, although it seems to be sideways. Wonder if it turns.

I also wonder how the 4 levels and strobe work- can you get to off from any mode, or do you need to cycle through everything?

Anybody see it for sale anywhere yet? Price?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Hmm- 4 levels- Check. Bigger button on top- check. Waterproof- check. GoPro mount- Check, although it seems to be sideways. Wonder if it turns.


Andy has stated before that a nitefighter rep said they would be turning it (fixing it) in future productions.

I didn't catch that the BT21 had strobe (the BT40s doesn't). I too wonder how strobe is activated/deactivated. Yoohoo! Andy? Want to inquire through your contact at nitefighter?

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well Andy Wong told me they had planned to fix the mount's orientation on the BT70; we never discussed the BT21 but yeah, am sure they are wise to the overall problem. But their products don't seem to be all that available right now, just a few at some German website and on eBay. Seeing as how they've recently been unloading a meagre stock of BT-40S at fire sale prices, wouldn't surprise me if at this point NiteFighter is exiting rather than entering business. Hope to be proven wrong because I like the BT40S package recently scored on Amazon so much, has only whet my appetite for the BT-70. Thinking with the easy screw off lens holder and Carclo optics, be cinchy to get any beam pattern imaginable. 2800 lumens ain't nothing to snear at neither — well at least if they're "measured" rather than "theoretical."


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

andychrist said:


> And seeing as how they've recently been unloading a meagre stock of BT-40S at fire sale prices, wouldn't surprise me if at this point NiteFighter is exiting rather than entering business.


Well maybe they would be receptive to a custom build which could turn into a rather profitable product for them!

-Garry


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

GJHS said:


> Ok I just got word from May that this project will not continue with Yinding. Apparently there were some problems with the other custom builds and Yinding didn't act very responsibly. With the 3C builds they didn't believe the customers that the tint was wrong and GearBest is now having to fix it. So due to this, GearBest does not wish to ask them to build this light.
> 
> If you want, I can source another manufacturer to try and build this light or maybe there is another light we can get?


That sucks. I saw on the other thread that Yinding was being a difficult with replacing the boards that had the wrong emitter. I thought it was a temporary problem that could be fixed. I can't believe it went this far. Hopefully the relationship between Yinding and Gearbest isn't completely damaged and they continue to sell the dual led lights. Gearbest might drop them completely!

We were so close to finally to getting someone to build us what we wanted. I want that triple Yinding with the programmable driver! I guess it was too good to be true.

Thanks for all the trouble we went through. It's a shame it all went to waste. Do you really want to start all this over with another manufacturer?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> Hmm . . . anyone catch the BT21 on nitefighter's website?
> 
> -Garry


I never had a lot of faith in the Nitefigher guys. It just seemed to me that they cloned somenone else's clone and doubled the price. The fact the mount is 90 degrees the wrong direction just confirms my suspicion. Honestly, how dumb is that.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Well maybe they would be receptive to a custom build which could turn into a rather profitable product for them!
> 
> -Garry


Eh, kinda doubt there'd be enough customers here to make it worth their while. Manufacturers have to sell thousands to turn a profit, doubt they'd be interested in just breaking even. Remember, BT40S itself retails about same price as original MagicShine, over $100. OTOH NiteFighter BT70 is certainly a powerful enough lamp in its own right to command some attention, long as they get the brightness levels sorted, and they're only asking $64 wholesale for a package that includes 4x Panasonic 3400mAh battery packs and their own 2 Amp charger. Carclo does custom work so they'd really be the ones to go to if one wanted to mod the optics. But yeah, if we could get NiteFighter to throw in stepless dimming that would be icing on the cake. Don't think any of their models actually have strobe though, no big loss.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm not one to quit easily, so I can try to source another manufacturer to build this. I know after everything we were very close and it's not over just yet. Somehow I'm not surprised by Yinding, they were going to take a financial hit with their mistake and have now made a bigger financial mistake. We were their future, since other sellers cheaper versions won't go that far.

As I said lets see, they aren't the only manufacturers out there and since we are starting from scratch, anyone can benefit and build this.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

varider said:


> I never had a lot of faith in the Nitefigher guys. It just seemed to me that they cloned somenone else's clone and doubled the price. The fact the mount is 90 degrees the wrong direction just confirms my suspicion. Honestly, how dumb is that.


Was kinda my understanding too, but then again at least NF has made some overall improvements to these designs. For one, they're employing Neutral White emitters in all their lamps, including NW XP-G2 rather than just XP-G, somthing that MagicShine has not yet gotten around to. Also the power indicator LEDs in the control button is shut off when the lamp itself is not on; the charger is (supposedly) a full 2 Amps rather than 1.8A, and flashes red near the end of the cycle before turning green all the way - a convenient feature when you're in a hurry. Been some redesign of the lamp bodies as well and hey, MagicShine doesn't offer the GoPro mount at all; at least NiteFighter recognized their error in its orientation and will not be shipping the product as pictured. Sales rep Andy Wong seemed on the ball and reponded to all my emails within 24 hrs, so I can only wish the company success bringing their products to market.

Hope Yinding gets its act together too!


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

I like your style GJHS, keep up the good fight. I appreciate your efforts here and will be watching closely.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Low power drain when off, maybe turn off the indicator LED after 1hr of inactivity?


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## juhake (Oct 26, 2007)

Nitefighter lights are produced by Dongguan Lumingear Lighting Co.,LTD.



> Q: What is the MOQ for OEM&ODM? A: 500PCS;


For their regular product line:



> Minimum Order︰10 pc


Nitefighter BT21 Bicycle accessory Bike light 1800Lumen LED Bicycle


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

In all honesty, that's not a bad deal for a lighthead with 4 name brand cells. Something I would consider looking into. As ling as the build quality and heat management is decent it would be nice to see a quality set out of the box for under 50 there. This way it would help people just getting into the sport that want to get everything in one shot from the same place


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

MK96 said:


> Sirius9 said:
> 
> 
> > Biggest problem of 8,4V packs is balance charging at acceptable price.
> ...


Sorry for my late reply.
Ok, so I have some experience with designing a product for mass market and believe me when I say you must keep it as simple as you can. Sure this dedicated balance charger would work (I personally have Turnigy Accucel 6) for some people, but you would sale maybe 50 pcs or even less. 
When I mentioned "balance charging" I meant on a 8,4V battery pack with integrated balancing.

Also, someone mentioned, not sure if here or on BLF, something like hand picking individual cells, testing them and pairing according to testing results (same capacity, same IR).. 
Yeah, that's not going to happen.
Testing cells, especially their capacity is a lengthy process, requires additional equipment that can be expensive (remember we are talking about 500 battery packs each one with 4 cells so 2000pcs), you would also need to employ more workers to do this job and you would have to educate them... So, no go on this one for sure.

Don't get me wrong but this idea of 100% custom build light was destined for fail from the beginning because it was like a unlimited supply of wishes for everyone, so we ended up with huge pile of wishes, everyone added something new while price expectations stayed on same low unrealistic level of 30$-50$..
Making a good product that would satisfy most of needs for 500 people is hard and making a product that would perfectly satisfy all wishes of 500 people is simply impossible (not for 50$ anyway).

What I would suggest is finding a good product like Nitefighter BT40S (BTW I received this one for testing and review so you can expect to read about it relatively soon) and changing some bits and pieces to make it even better, like that programmable driver, this means that more people would be able to set modes according to their preferences.
Next, how about switching from 4 x XP-G2 to 3 x XP-L leds maybe even without upping the current...
Keeping the price at acceptably low level and adding nice new features does not go hand in hand so we need to decide right now what is most important for us: holding the price at the acceptably low level by adding just few carefully selected features that would make costs/benefit element better than what we have now on the market with any other budget light (affordable for more people but it wont satisfy all our wishes, not even close) or are we going to let your imagination take the wheel (more fun but significantly more expensive).


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Sirius9 said:


> Sorry for my late reply.
> Don't get me wrong but this idea of 100% custom build light was destined for fail from the beginning because it was like a unlimited supply of wishes for everyone, so we ended up with huge pile of wishes, everyone added something new while price expectations stayed on same low unrealistic level of 30$-50$..
> Making a good product that would satisfy most of needs for 500 people is hard and making a product that would perfectly satisfy all wishes of 500 people is simply impossible (not for 50$ anyway).


No it was not destined to fail. That's complete BS.

We were just going to completely ignore most of the suggestions that were too far in left field, especially those on BLF which seemed particularly out-of-touch.

It was never really about a 100% custom, build anything-you-want type of light.

It was about taking Yinding manufacturing capability and using it to build something that was significant improvement to their already great Yinding dual led light. That was it!

It was combining all the good things in cheap Chinese lights that are have been available in the last two years and combining them into one light for relatively cheap price.

For example, the 10-step programmable driver is relatively new and only available on a handful of lights, and those don't have the best heat sinking. The concept of two leds side by side with separate replaceable optics was first (cheaply) available two years ago with the D99. Most of were were excited to get that $33 light, but it turned out to be a dud. The optics were too floody and the heat sinking was miserable. The concept was great and was properly being built by Gemini with their Duo light. But that's an expensive light.

The Solarstorm X2's and the original Yinding (a clone of the Duo) turned the whole thing dual-led market around. Finally we had a dual led light that was significantly better than the single xml lights (Magicshine 808 clones). I got my Solarstorm for around $25. For the price it's a revelation! The original Yinding was $50 for a complete kit with a battery. Some people like me, who already had enough lights, didn't buy it because you couldn't get the light head by itself and $50 seemed to steep. Then the light disappeared! The Yinding light, which was already a clone, was cloned again and it was no good. You couldn't find the good "original" which had good heat sinking, independent and replaceable optics and was small as hell. The products were sold through the same buy-links at Fasttech as if they were the same, but they were not. The switched manufactures without telling anyone

So when GJHS found the original Yinding it was another huge win for us mountain bikers . Not only were they selling the original good light, they were willing to sell us the light-head only and they were willing to modify the light to our specification. That's a big deal for us because we never had any input before! It was always a one way street.

These lights from China were always a huge gamble anyway. You give them the money and maybe they show up a month later. Maybe they work when you get them and maybe they don't. They might even break on the third ride. To get a light that works well and is reliable is a big deal!

So this deal that GJHS was trying to put together was not about building some sort of super amazing dream light for the price of movie theater ticket and popcorn. It was about trying to get an evolutionary, or perhaps revolutionary, light from the far east that made is better than anything before it. Good heat sinking, a programmable driver, more light output, an optics kit, choice of mounts, a decent button, a removable remote. That's all doable for a cheap price.

Maybe ...


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

varider said:


> So this deal that GJHS was trying to put together was not about building some sort of super amazing dream light for the price of movie theater ticket and popcorn. It was about trying to get an evolutionary, or perhaps revolutionary, light from the far east that made is better than anything before it.


To cut the story short, I know that and you know that but the OP offered something different, something that everyone wanted to hear (please read it again):



GJHS said:


> Ok people always post "If they would only listen to what we want" and "If they would only build what we want". Well *now we have an opportunity to build a completely custom light, built 100% to our specs*. GearBest.com has brought our request to Yinding, who has one of the best made Chinese lights and they agreed to build it for us. *We tell them what we want, they will build* a sample for testing and if it's good, we will start a group buy of 500 on multiple sites. When we reach that goal it will be built.
> Now let the conversation begin on what light you would like to be built


So yes, in the offered manner, this thing was destined to fail.

But, aside that, you surely remember that every new light that "stirred the pot" and become popular among users was pretty expensive at the start, you mentioned that first Yinding was about $50. I still have the info in my DX account that I paid $47.20 (1 piece) for the light that you can see in my avatar, that was in 2012.

Yinding is not stupid, I suspect they are following this thread, why should they make any improvements to their light (which is more expensive from all around clones because of better quality) and then sale it to us for a cheap price, as you say!
Ok, they would (maybe) sale 500 pcs at once but 500 pcs is what, a week of production and after that how much months will pass until clones start to rain without heat sinking or lacking this and that, advertising as new & improved Yinding with even lower price.

Without further philosophizing, I suspect Yinding just calculated that they could not reconcile proposed improvements with the price that would be acceptable to most.
Even with minimum improvements like those you mentioned:



varider said:


> Good heat sinking, a programmable driver, more light output, an optics kit, choice of mounts, a decent button, a removable remote.


we are looking in a $100 light including (we can hope) decent battery pack (with Buck cells, panasonic or even samsung cells just wont fit in that price point) and charger. Even if it was $80 for a set, try to find 500 people to pay $80. Comparable Niteye B20 is ~ 150$ without programmable driver and with old XML emitters...

Anyway it was a nice idea, 100% custom build light, sounded almost like a dream


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Sirius9 said:


> To cut the story short, I know that and you know that but the OP offered something different, something that everyone wanted to hear (please read it again):


The context from the beginning was that we were customizing the Yinding light. See this post were the discussion began:



GJHS said:


> Ok Guys, you asked and after a lot of work it's here! We have the green light from Yinding to customize anything we want if we order 500. They will change the emitter, make a 3 LED version, change the button, so what do you want?
> 
> You wanted a manufacturer to listen and they're all ears. We can make this light as good as we want.


I also don't see the need to discuss advanced batteries with balancing and top-grade cells. It was never part of the original intent, and most of us already have batteries. I think most of us just want a new light head.


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

It would be interesting to see what the led plates are mounted onto on the BT21 especially given that you don't appear to be able to access the driver from the rear due to the fins? It's a shame we can't get one of these for review from Nitefighter.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Point was to make improvements and and one single improvement from which would benefit every existing light is integrating balancing electronic to the battery pack. Battery packs with cheap cells would probably have more benefit from that than pack with reputable cells. If they were to make and sale balanced battery pack separately I can bet people with other light would gladly buy it, because most of those packs don't even last a year.
Anyway, time will tell what will happen but 500pcs is huge number of light.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

This actually started as getting a 3 emitter version or current one with copper pills, optics options, better internal wiring, programmable driver.

The intent was good, but the insane requests for extras (im included cause I wanted remote switch which I dont care about now, $7 and 10 mins with soldering iron gives me that).

Idea was consensus of priority upgrades and design to do 3 emitter version. But as with all mtbr threads it got derailled with arguments, unreal requests and normal bs.

Now hopefully well get back on topic (and im currently exploring other avenues to get something similar to be made since they have base head design and driver design already and seem more receptive than yinding)


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

When looking at it from a "we need to sell 500 of these to break even" perspective then yes, I guess it could be considered a risk and not worth the effort

When looking at it from a "let's incorporate ideas from some of our target audience and people who may have more experience than our own engineers" than it has the chance for great success. True, it may not sell 500 lights here but it's a good opportunity for a company that is already looking to design a new light to lead the market by offering what actual mountain bikers want. Just letting the users design their new light and taking a chance. Someone would find it worthwhile, and their light will be the next yinding, x2 or whatever that takes the budget light market by storm


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

In the meanwhile... What is the possibility that GearBest starts to sell the Nitefighter BT21? Wouldn't it be a good idea to point may or dora in the direction of lumingear.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

From what I was told, NiteFighter is not going to pursue business with GearBest or any other budget vendor.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

GJHS said:


> Ok I just got word from May that this project will not continue with Yinding.


Disappointing, but expected: here I agree with *Sirius9*'s opinion.



> If you want, I can source another manufacturer to try and build this light or maybe there is another light we can get?


There already is one manufacturer who's ready to listen: 
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...cordless-800-lms-usb-rechargeable-927247.html


ITUO Manufacturer said:


> Our next model will use twin led with external battery pack case which is rechargeable, batteries removable and batteries not included. If any of you guys have any suggestions on this model you will be greatly appreciated.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

KD is also listening. They are fixing their "issues" but case won't be as good as yinding as far as removable faceplate etc. However talks regarding a 3x version however....


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Is there another light that you guys want me to go after? From previous experience, GearBest, is willing to get lights and contact the manufacturer to make changes. The Yinding wasn't the only light they modded. So is there another light?

The Nitefighter doesn't seem to fit here, since, while being a nice light doesn't seem to answer the requests here.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Is there another light that you guys want me to go after? From previous experience, GearBest, is willing to get lights and contact the manufacturer to make changes. The Yinding wasn't the only light they modded. So is there another light? Maybe the Nitenumen?

The Nitefighter doesn't seem to fit here, since, while being a nice light doesn't seem to answer the requests here.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ive seen a couple light heads I like because theirs more too them. More material in the case, better heat management. But u sacrifice weight for it. Not sure how much weight increase though. Be great to bring them up to par with driver, emitters etc.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Ive seen a couple light heads I like because theirs more too them. More material in the case, better heat management. But u sacrifice weight for it. Not sure how much weight increase though. Be great to bring them up to par with driver, emitters etc.


Weight isn't a huge factor if it's a bar lamp for me, and on the helmet it is less of a concern with a low profile mount. If they can design something sort of like a gloworm x2 then I can live with a bit heavier of a body. More than anything I would love to increase mass but be able to keep the case size small and have less hollow area


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well yinding, glowworm and duo are pretty similar, the extra internal mass honestly does little besides keep heat inside the case. They need thicker outer cases then deeper fins. And the internal case if its not going to use pills needs to be a solid divider wall with holes drilled for wires. That's the big problem, single plate with minimal direct case contact. Heat transfer to finned outer case is what they need to get right for once.

For bar light I dont mind, yinding/kd2 with spot optics (kd 2 heat issues are being addressed) are perfect light weight helmet lights.

Kd/ultrafire d99 and d88 cases are beefy casings, machine proper finning into case, update driver/emitters and be a beast of a light as they have surface area and case mass to handle heat of emitters being pushed.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GJHS said:


> Is there another light that you guys want me to go after? From previous experience, GearBest, is willing to get lights and contact the manufacturer to make changes. The Yinding wasn't the only light they modded. So is there another light? Maybe the Nitenumen?
> 
> The Nitefighter doesn't seem to fit here, since, while being a nice light doesn't seem to answer the requests here.


I was going to recommend a 3-up Gemini Duo but there is already a 3-up Gemini lamp. Besides the Gemini's are much more expensive. Maybe they could contact the place that makes the Ultrafire D-88 L2 and get them to make some changes to the lamp body...more deeper finning, better thermal path for the emitters ( if needed ) move the button to the back and change the color on front of the lamp to black. Oh, and make sure they can do neutral LED's as well as Cool white.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok, spoke with May and since GearBest and Yinding will continue to do business in the future, the custom light can maybe be a go again. Is there still interest in this? We would still need 500 to make it happen after the working sample is approved.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I'm definitely still interested

At the bare minimum we should go for a very bright triple with lots of heatsinking. 

I'll read the thread again later today but if I recall correctly the most requested things were 
1) programmable driver
2) different optics as a kit
3) better mounts (gopro or cam-lever)
4) solarstorm type of mode switch (can they do it?)
5) possibly NW emitters or a choice emitters with high heat conduction mounting base. 
6) thick wiring to reduce resistive power loss
7) removable wired remote
8) relatively inexpensive ($40-$60 ?)

There were also some ideas about pointing one of the leds downward to provide a near field effect.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

varider said:


> I'm definitely still interested
> 
> At the bare minimum we should go for a very bright triple with lots of heatsinking.
> 
> ...


Be great for all that but wouldn't be the price range we want, too much to do for low cost.

Driver exists, should be simple

I'm also trying to get GB to at least stock optics that leddna carries, be the same as the glowworm/duo uses.

Gopro mount option at least would be amazing. But vancbiker has us covered for heatsinked/regular gopro mounts (which help alot when cramming multiple xm-l2s into a small package)

I'd be happy with the normal mode switch that most lights use instead of the 2 short version yinding uses now

Emitter options GB is great about getting if we want it (and GHJS gets on them for us  )

I dont get why they don't get the point of thicker wires. That's just needed on everything. Seems no company wants to pay the extra 0.10 for 20awg battery cables over 22. Goes for internal too.

Removable switch is what will get pricey. That would require much more work to incorporate. Be nice but maybe instead just add in a ptt button like I've done to my yindings. Much simpler option.

What im trying to figure out is why yinding is so against making a 3 emitter version of the yinding. Selling 500 would be easy as hell without requiring a massive preorder. They already supply various outlets with the normal yinding. I get if we want full customizable (which I would be onboard for a couple) but this ain't flashlights. Majority of riders just care it works and lasts. Dont know or care beyond that.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I can't see a removable remote being a big deal honestly. It just needs to be soldered in parallel with the mode button. They can have a headphone style jack on the side of the light making it possible to disconnect the remote completely. There would have to be some sort of plug that makes the port waterproof if you don't use the remote. I wonder if you had this type of setup if you could attach a remote to a y-cable and control two lights at the same time. That would be cool

Mounts,optics and remote could be sold separately to make it cheaper for those who just want the light head. There could be a "pro" kit that includes everything. It's just an idea


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah, all I really want is a 3 up version of the yinding with a driver like the kd2. Since they will be building from scratch may as well use better wire and may as well use whatever emitter everyone decides on


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The "pro kit" idea sounds pretty good. Thing is I have stuff here to do a removable push button. Haven't even tried to it. If they were making a full on custom driver, it would still require a customized configuration to be able to mount a jack and get it positioned properly. both my yindings I simply cut the connectors off ptt remote switches, and parallel soldered the wires to the existing switch. Putting in a remote is EASY and switches are cheap enough, its the removable part that becomes a not so simple task because of jack size and configuration. Not to mention making it water resistant during use.

My opinions are based on I just want a 3x head that isn't fancy, just done correctly. Figure there's a better chance of getting it done that way.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I believe that the people who want remotes don't want the main button to be removable. The want an additional button that can be connected to the main light. That means that there would be two buttons that do exactly the same thing.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya that's exactly how both my yinding are, remote is soldered to switch contacts inside case.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Why doesn't someone here just go directly to China and bypass GB/Yinding, find a manufacturer, and spec one out per some of the ideas here and have it built? They will obviously have to take the risk of the ~500 units and hope they can sell them here.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yinding is the manufacturer . GB is just a reseller.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I agree totally with what varider had to say.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

tigris99 said:


> Yinding is the manufacturer . GB is just a reseller.


Yes, I understand that. As I said, bypass GB and/or Yinding (if necessary) and find someone who will make these for you directly...maybe Yinding will do it..no idea. Just cut out the middle man was all I was getting at. Has anyone chatted with Jim at action? He was talking about producing a customizable light at one point..maybe he can do it.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Some manufacturers have already begun incorporating wireless remotes into their lamps. Would be surpised if off-the-shelf components couldn't be found. So at this point think concentrating on a wired remote would be kinda backward, especially for a helmet light.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

From a reliability standpoint wired is still hard to beat though...plus I lose everything


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Maybe this would be a good crowd-funding deal to get the money up-front. I am sure one of those factories will make the light everyone (mostly) wants. I have a feeling though when folks get this spec'd out, they will find that the old adage of price/quality/service..pick 2 will be realized and that you won't have a ~$30 lighthead any longer and will be approaching the cost of the Gemini-type lights at that point. Also, maybe a partnership with Hunk Lee for the battery portion of this package could be worked-out..I am sure he can make water-proof high-quality batteries with the proper connectors, cord length, etc.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok I've taking this project as far as I can and it isn't going to happen. GearBest wants to wash their hands of working with Yinding direct and on any custom products, which is understandable.

May is focusing on Flashlights, working closely with the BLF forum and now Netefari will take care of GearBest here on MTBR. She is very excited to get some new stuff so rather than making custom lights, suggest some good products. GearBest is good at finding hard to get items.

edit: I know some are reading this thinking "I will make this happen". I say God's speed! I'm happy that we now have the Yinding available again, it was a lot of fun and work. I just don't think it's worth continuing this, well at least not now with Yinding.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm all for whoever making a 3x light head. Options for place to do it are slim pickings though.

Yinding case design is perfect for this purpose. Ss x3 (or various clones) are going to redo their cases and face plates to optics.

KD2 though useable design (if they fix the way they install the emitter pcbs) it'll be a huge hassle to change optics.

The older D88 to me looks like the best "option" available at the moment. Need hefty case for solid cooling (though would need more finning), uses optics already. But only real current option I see worth exploring for a 3x head of the current offerings.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

If we can get the Yinding case seperate or drivers that fit we could step up the original Yinding on our own.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Oh well. Time to let it go.

I was starting to think that it was too good to be true. As others have said, if they make a light as good as the Glowworm why wouldn't they just charge the same price. The cheap lights we have now are very capable. They are definitely good enough to get us out on the trail (or road). That's what's important. Two light heads for $50 is super cheap and something that was unimaginable in the early halogen days of night riding. 

It would be nice if we could bypass Gearbest and talk to Yinding or some other manufacturer directly. We could convince them to make what we want and they could still sell the light on Gearbest. I don't see this happening anytime soon. Even if we could contact them directly, we probably couldn't get past the language/culture barrier. You would think with all the money this forum spent on Yinding products, that they would try to post something on this forum. But they are absent. 

Having Gearbest in the middle actually helps us out in multiple ways. First they are taking on the financial responsibility. Second, they understand the language. Third their purchasing power ensures that we can get what we ordered. Imagine if we had bought the neutral whites directly from the manufacturer. They would have sent us the wrong tint and then what? Do you think that they would sent out the corrected version? No way!

The kickstarter/crowd-funding option is not something I could start. You are basically starting a company and making big promises. Starting company also means you want to make a profit and that raises the prices. So you end up with premium prices again.

I have a whole pile of lights at this point. If I had spent all that money on one or two lights then I would probably have a set of premium lights by now. So that's the problem with the cheap lights. You end up buying too many of them thinking "Oh well what's another $20".


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Agree..that was the crux of my post somewhere above. Folks are taking this to a point now where you may as well just buy a Gloworm/Gemini etc. The big deal with the cheapie light setups was that they were cheap! And for the savings in $$, you make compromises in quality and functionality. I have been super-happy with my budg-o Yinding and SSX2 set up. My original Yinding is my road light full-time...just works so well in that application and I usually only need it for a portion of my ride if I start/end at night. But, when it counts for serious offroad night riding, I always go with my Gemini set up b/c it is just much nicer, better quality, and I don't worry about it puking on me 10 miles from nowhere. I have been on several rides where folks' cheap lights/batteries have died so you do get what you pay for - its a PITA. This forum has turned somewhat IMHO into the cheap-o Chinese light DIY forum and needs to be roped back in!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Me personally I was just wanting a 3x version of the yinding.





Knowing what I have invested atm because of deal searching etc, all might lights and cells I could have a bought a glowworm/duo head, and kit with pack or a glowworm xs maybe. And i have several lights, 4 sets of 4 Panasonic cells, 1 set keeppower Panasonic protected. And various Chinese cell sets.





That includes having a remote button for both yindings, only light not on noctigons is the bt40. Full assortment of optics as well.





2 yindings with mods=$45 (blue yinding didn't cost me)


Ssx3=$25 plus $12 in mods


Bt40=$25


2 kd2's=$60 but were bought as full kits


$220


3 ss cases=$ 33


2 fenix cases $22


$270


Panasonic cell, 16 total naked cells $75


Keeppowers $30


$375


Vancs custom mounts, $36





$425 since I bought extension cables from dx, thermal paste, etc and an angel eye light head from kd.





Glowworm xs with 1 battery pack = $300





Duo with 1 battery pack = $200





$500 bone stock lights, no direct copper mcpcbs, not NW 3c tint, not enough cells to fill 6 4x18650 packs plus 2x protected cells for helmet case. Not aluminum gopro mounts.





Quality and design isn't there the cheap route, but the money saved overall (fitting both my bikes and my sons) is less that 1/2 of what it would have cost to fit me and my son alone with 1 pack per light, stock plastic mounts etc.





I like it!!! And programmable driver and remote (not sure about expense of removable) is there cheap, Kd2 had the driver, remote switch is nothing more than a $5 retail push to talk button. And that price is with the connector that you cut off. So yinding head would go up to still sub $50...



Oh and I have full spare set up(except helmet battery pack) to loan. So that's 4 kits fitted.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

TiGeo said:


> This forum has turned somewhat IMHO into the cheap-o Chinese light DIY forum and needs to be roped back in!


Yes BUT what we need is a sub forum for modding lights. DIY isn't the same as modding budget lights. Budget light modding is going nuts, chances of getting a new sub????


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Factor in your time...its worth something (I realize many like to tinker as a hobby so its time well spent). Duo with 1 4-cell battery pack can be had for $150 (light head only and a 4-cell Magicshine battery). That is OEM I agree...but what else (I understand the tint preferences) do you really need to have a killer night riding experience? All of this other stuff just seems like doing it for the sake of doing it/light-nerd stuff. You have $425 in your setup; I have ~$275 in my Gemini set up (1xDuo, 1xXera, 2x4-cell BAK Magicshine batteries, ext. cable, helmet mount, 2xGemini hard cases) and I have enough light to blaze like the sun and ride as fast at night as I do during the day for ~2 hours which is as much as I really ever go. I do a 18 hour race each year and these worked wonderfully for that last fall. I have ~$75 in my budg-o setup with a SSX2 and Yinding and it works well too...but I like my Gemini stuff better but the budg-o stuff is cool and I get the allure....


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

tigris99 said:


> Yes BUT what we need is a sub forum for modding lights. DIY isn't the same as modding budget lights. Budget light modding is going nuts, chances of getting a new sub????


DIY to me is the same thing..and different that general night-riding/light discussions.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

My only problem modding lights is that for the time i spend playing around tinkering with things it cuts down into my riding time. Even valuing my time at nothing, up until recently any free time I had I would ride. It's now all been spent on other stuff when I think about it


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I enjoy the collecting, reviewing, and modding of lights as a hobby. I don't care how much I have into it so long as I don't lay out a ton of money all at once. It is addicting though, just like flashlights. I moved on from flashlights because I had covered all the bases for practical uses (flooder, thrower, EDC, headlamp, etc. . .) and moved into bike lights because I had need for a new practical use (and desired to mix my love of LED lights with my desire to get back into cycling). 

Now you'll probably ostracize me for saying this, but I really haven't even ridden at night yet! I keep "preparing". It's just so hard to find the time, esp. with young kids. 

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Your contributions here are great Garry, so thanks for "preparing"


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

garrybunk said:


> I enjoy the collecting, reviewing, and modding of lights as a hobby. I don't care how much I have into it so long as I don't lay out a ton of money all at once. It is addicting though, just like flashlights. I moved on from flashlights because I had covered all the bases for practical uses (flooder, thrower, EDC, headlamp, etc. . .) and moved into bike lights because I had need for a new practical use (and desired to mix my love of LED lights with my desire to get back into cycling).
> 
> Now you'll probably ostracize me for saying this, but I really haven't even ridden at night yet! I keep "preparing". It's just so hard to find the time, esp. with young kids.
> 
> -Garry


Time to put down the soldiering iron and get out for some night riding!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

My time is paid really lol. Off work do to surgery so I was getting paid to sit and home and tinker, can't ride yet (well starting to be able to, but today my elbow hurt so bad I left work early) so no loss. Gained experience, knowledge, kept busy and had fun while being paid to be at home lol.

And you missed my key points.

All my set ups are with Panasonic cells

I have my helmet and bars
Sons helmet and bars
My commuter
And full spare set up if someone wants to try things out.

Your 275 x3.... Plus commuter (which I have $30 in the light set up).

Just had to bust your balls on that lol.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> Now you'll probably ostracize me for saying this, but I really haven't even ridden at night yet! I keep "preparing". It's just so hard to find the time, esp. with young kids.
> 
> -Garry


 No ostracizing from me, your posts have always been very good in my opinion.

I have to say that the one thing that always bugged me about the cheap lights is that there is frequently some overlooked detail that completely kills effectiveness for the light. Heat sinking looks good on the outside but there's a huge hole behind the emitter board. Flash mode as part of the mode rotation. Light is fine otherwise but isn't any brighter than the last round of lights. There's always something. That's why they are cheap I suppose.

With Yinding's quality I thought we had turned the corner. They got pretty much got everything right ... except the button. And they were too stubborn to realize that they were damaging their relationship with Gearbest by not replacing the wrong-tint boards.

It's their loss, really.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oops wrong thread.

Garry we could never say anything bad about what you do man, you do alot of good stuff. ANd the "love of LEDs" is somethign thats back with me too, but its with bike lights, jsut starting to get my feet wet with flashlights, ordered a convoy l4 today.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

tigris99 said:


> My time is paid really lol. Off work do to surgery so I was getting paid to sit and home and tinker, can't ride yet (well starting to be able to, but today my elbow hurt so bad I left work early) so no loss. Gained experience, knowledge, kept busy and had fun while being paid to be at home lol.
> 
> And you missed my key points.
> 
> ...


Fair enough...you have more lights and spent more money but your unit cost/setup is less...as I would expect it to be with these cheaper lights. My points was that many folks here are so hung up on the cheap stuff that they don't realize that for $275 you get a v. high quality setup which to me isn't that much $$ for nice gear. So I have $350 total in for 2 full setups. Lots of folks here are riding bikes that cost 10x that. Don't get me wrong...the cheap Chinese light thing is great and has opened up the door for night riding for lots of folks here where I live. I love my budget set up. SSX2 and 808 clones up and down the trails in the fall/winter around here with plenty of comments about "I can't f'ing believe I got 10 gazillion lumens for $20 on Amazon!". But plenty of folks are also seeing that these lights do fail and your average joe isn't going to be into the modding thing. For these folks, they would be well-servced after getting a taste of night riding to purchase some higher quality lights.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

garrybunk said:


> I enjoy the collecting, reviewing, and modding of lights as a hobby. I don't care how much I have into it so long as I don't lay out a ton of money all at once. It is addicting though, just like flashlights. I moved on from flashlights because I had covered all the bases for practical uses (flooder, thrower, EDC, headlamp, etc. . .) and moved into bike lights because I had need for a new practical use (and desired to mix my love of LED lights with my desire to get back into cycling).
> 
> Now you'll probably ostracize me for saying this, but I really haven't even ridden at night yet! I keep "preparing". It's just so hard to find the time, esp. with young kids.
> 
> -Garry


Not ostracizing here...b/c as some have said, you reviews/work on this site seems top-notch but how do you properly review these lights if you haven't actually ridden off road with them? Maybe this was part of my point about the site getting off-base...the light itself is important but more important is how these things actually work on the trail and how your night riding benefits/is hindered by a specific design or mod. Just my 2 cents.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I will disagree some, for example, Tigris' work with the Yinding to get more of a spot beam is right on track. Advancing the Yinding was something you, yourself were a big part of in the past. Many of us have been discussing beam patterns, which light works best, pros and cons, not to mention many of us are coming out of a very cold winter so there aren't many riding stories to share.

The whole Yinding project was about getting a cheap priced light without cheap construction that avoids the breakdowns you mention. I'll speak for myself, I don't ride at night a ton, maybe a few times year, especially in the fall. I also don't ride an expensive bike, just a good old reliable one. So spending $300 doesn't pay for me, if you're a serious night rider, dropping the coin makes complete sense. If you want a light for a few rides, to commute, as a backup or for when you get caught out as the sun drops then a quality budget light works well if you get the right one. It's also works well if you're a general flashaholic. I think the work this forum has done to advance night riding and get cheap, reliable lights out there so more can ride is great. The forum is actually called LIGHTS and Night Riding.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> Not ostracizing here...b/c as some have said, you reviews/work on this site seems top-notch but how do you properly review these lights if you haven't actually ridden off road with them? Maybe this was part of my point about the site getting off-base...the light itself is important but more important is how these things actually work on the trail and how your night riding benefits/is hindered by a specific design or mod. Just my 2 cents.


That's precisely why I never make statements about the lights "in actual use" or whether a light is well suited for helmet or the bars. I know I don't have the experience to make those judgements.

I could see having a separate MTBR category for "Budget Lights - Reviews, Experience, and Modding" or something like that. This is supposed to be the "Lights and Night Riding" category, but there really are few posts about actual night riding!

-Garry


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Fair enough guys, just pointing some things I am seeing here and yes, I realize that I have contributed a bit to the whole Yinding thing going on. I wouldn't be trolling this if I weren't somewhat of a gear/light nerd too. I agree that the original Yinding I have is probably the best cheap-o light I have seen and worthy for most as a primary light (original battery is still kicking after this long). Just want folks to keep in mind that many of the mods etc. that I see here aren't going to make a lot of difference for actual off-road singletrack use of these lights. Example...optics. I bought the LEDDNA $4 wider angle optics (45?) for my Yinding. Fun to mess around with, but hard to tell on the trail if it made any real difference vs. stock. It was a v. mild Jan here in VA and rode the hell out of my road, cross, and mtn bikes this winter, a lot of which was at night.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Delete duplicate


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

I found the 45º LEDDNA was maybe a bit too short (at only 10º vertical) and maybe a tad narrow, but the 20º*60º works pretty well. Now I kinda wish I'd bought a pair of the 30º x 60º ellipticals as well, at least just to compare. But I'm always running at least two lamps on the bars, the wide angle aimed low so as to always have light in front of and around the wheel, and a narrower beam aimed higher for distance (either an unmodded YD or a KD 880 clone revamped with 15º optics.) Paths upstate tend to be real twisty so that's where the wide angle pays off. Haven't found a surefire way of mounting a lamp to my old dirt bike helmet, will most likely have to buy a real mtb style one so as to be able to attach a Yinding low on the brim. But testing out a spotty headlamp in conjunction with those on the bars, discovered that it takes some coordination to keep it aimed well enough to be a beneficial addition rather than a confusing distraction. Yes, I am a spazz — as if that wasn't already obvious.

At any rate, the Neutral White option offered in all these cheapo lamps makes such a world of difference, I wouldn't take one of the more expensive lamps in Cool White even it it were offered to me for free. Granted the Gloworm is now available in NW, but that only happened recently, way after GJHS got us such great deals on the YD and SS lamps. And KD is making more and more of theirs available in NW as well, at irresistable prices. 

Other thing to keep in mind, the technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. Current crop of LEDs have better CRI and higher lumens per watt, which is great. They're now around five or six times as efficient as incandescents, which sounds good too until you do the math and realize that only makes them around 10 or 12% efficient overall. Next generation could be closer to 20%. But already full spectum lasers are being developed for similar case use, doubtful that even Cree will be able to keep up with strictly LED solutions. And supposedly Tesla is all set to announce something like a doubling in Li-ion capacity as well. Point being, that $300 lamp set up you purchase today could be obsolesced by tomorrow. So small investments in more disposable packages might be the prudent course. 

My three cents.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I don't use the wide angle spot, the 45 tigeo mentioned is a true 45 all around not eliptical like 10x45 Andy is referring too. I have a bunch of all of them, 15,45,60,10x45,20x60,30x60. Like the first 3 the best except in the center of ssx3 where 10x45 works great with 60s on either side.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

I have to say, thanks GJHS for trying, unfortunately, as I explained earlier in this thread, this project was just too ambitious. 
But I think there is still hope in getting good quality light for excellent price, compromise is that the manufacturer will decide what will be the products characteristics, used parts etc. Luckily there are manufacturers that are listening and that's why we now have a chance to get Nitefighter BT21 for excellent price over at GearBest.
I think this light is genuine step forward in many ways even compared to Yinding and for that price, there's no question about it.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Wow, is that for real Sirius? The price is almost too good to be true if the build quality is anything like the bt40


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

manbeer said:


> *The price is almost too good to be true* if the build quality is anything like the bt40


Now when you mentioned, it sure looks they made some error with the price.
If I only have not blow all my cash yesterday on emitters, drivers and other parts I would be ordering one right now anyone care to borrow 16$ prety please (pm me if you are).


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Cool, thanks for the link, Sirius. I had asked Andy about selling through GB a while ago but at that time he said it was a no go. Glad things have changed. 

From the pic looks like Nitefighter still hasn't fixed the problem with the orientation of the GoPro mount? Pretty sure though one of Vancbiker's adapters will work right with the BT21.

Ordered two of these right away, PayPal transaction went fine. 

Hope GB gets the BT70 someday.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bt21 not in stock and price I dont believe is correct, they just got the page for it built last night (our time) so bare with me and them, be in stock and all that very soon.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Good to know had it loaded into cart. Now what they need to do is find a freaking decent battery case. Best I've seen so far seems the be the one from the mudder that KD now is selling. Wonder if GB can source these and sell without cells to undercut KD


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

GJHS is working on it. He has some possible good leads but will take some time.

I didn't expect bt21 to be put on the site so quickly, was expecting one in my hands at the same time. Can't wait to get a couple myself lol.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Bt21 not in stock and price I dont believe is correct, they just got the page for it built last night (our time) so bare with me and them, be in stock and all that very soon.


Huh? My order went through at the advertised sale price. Says 59% off, so the math looks fairly correct, even if it's not what GB intended.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya Andy but ur waiting a while lol.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Andy was supposed to have some up on amazon and send me a tester, wonder what's good with that. Gonna have to give him a shout.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Ya Andy but ur waiting a while lol.


To be expected with GB. Still waiting for my Blue anodized YD that I ordered beginning of February (well, made it through Customs, is getting kicked around good now by USPS.) But if they are not prepared to honor the advertised discount then that will be a problem, to put it mildly.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

That mounting post is biggest - by me, but since there are many people that have gopro and/or accessories and mounts they will be happy with this solution.
I ordered (and received) this mount from DX, maybe it will fit!








As per stock status I can ast GB but since today is holiday and then saturday & sunday answer will come at monday earliest.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

andychrist said:


> To be expected with GB. Still waiting for my Blue anodized YD that I ordered beginning of February (well, made it through Customs, is getting kicked around good now by USPS.) But if they are not prepared to honor the advertised discount then that will be a problem, to put it mildly.


Jeez andy, I ordered mine second week of April and already got it so idk what's up with that. Took 14 days exactly


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

It's possible the lone BT21 just comes with a plastic mount, Sirius. Think the GoPro adapter is only included as an extra in the package deal. Or else GB is sending them out with no mount at all, they don't even mention O-rings in Package Contents, just the lamp head itself.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

My best guess would be that the light will come with standard magicshine like mount (like the one I pictured above) with 2 or 3 rubber o'rings just like BT40S did and gopro mount will be accessory (remains to see if included with the light head or not), but that said, there are several suspicious lines in whole product description, I will have to ask GB about that mounting sistem, or we will see when they update product images.

I think this light will be very popular, depending on first reviews, it can easily overcome Yinding, I presume that, while we chatted her about it 10+pcs are sold...

Some advantages of this light: better design, neutral white tint (I actually prefer CW but many people like NW more), better battery indicator, better modes (bye bye low-high-strobe, thank God), no shitty battery pack included, temperature sensor on board, TIR optics that is most probably in standard size and can be easily replaced with minor investment...


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

If the quality is anywhere near that of bt40 and the price is close to yinding it'll be a hit


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Nice work Sirius, it looks great, especially that price! Tigris, GB has to post it on their website to be able to stock it, so the fact that the listing is ahead of having stock is normal. 

I can't wait to see how it compares.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Sirius9 said:


> My best guess would be that you get what you see, they would mention if and extra mount is available in the package (and show it) or they would mention if pictured gopro tipe mount is not included, otherwise MANY people would complain (followed by eternal nagging on different forums),
> but that said, there are several suspicious lines in whole product description, I will have to ask GB about that mounting sistem.
> 
> I think this light will be very popular, depending on first reviews, it can easily overcome Yinding, I presume that, while we chatted her about it 10+pcs are sold...
> ...


But it is not the Nitefighter package. Just downloaded the BT21 manual and it makes clear that the GoPro mount is an extra, so some other mount must come attached. As with most Chinese sites, GearBest is notoriously inaccurate in their product descriptions and accompanying graphics. In this case they just grabbed what they could off of Nitefighter's site. Anyway would be a good thing it doesn't come with the GoPro mount pictured because that one is made wrong for a lamp.

Too bad GearBest can't offer the complete BT21 package, it actually comes with a great battery pack and decent charger. But yeah the lamp should do well on its own, can't see how the Yinding beats it, not at this price anyway!


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

One more very important detail on this light is that emitters sit directly on the housing back side which provides best and fastest heat exchange generated by leds.

Design is well planned to avoid additional shelf for emitters to sit that is also a weak spot for temperature transfer in any light that feature this and one of the places where manufactures love to cut corners...


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok that's a lot more heat sinking than I realized. From the first pics I saw I thought that the case went the full way back with small ridges like the yinding that were just silver on the inside. Now that I see they are actually fins and how the light is set up, yeah...it should be a winner. When I spoke to Andy at nitefighter he said they weren't planning on doing a 3 up. However if everything goes well with this, maybe they would be willing to hear us out and be our source for this project


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Dont worry, once I get it in my hand ill get the review with full tear down. Getting gearbest to stock these has been my "pet project" the last couple weeks along with optics.

Been dying for this light once I saw the case, cross our fingers is as good inside as out like the bt40 is


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Sirius9 said:


> One more very important detail on this light is that emitters sit directly on the housing back side which provides best and fastest heat exchange generated by leds.


About time!

Here's a top view of one of my lights from 5 or 6 years ago.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

I just got one too. 
I'm having this problem where every time I look at one of these threads I end up with another light on its way to my house.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well let you guys know, it will be a bit before they are even in stock. So be patient. Was hoping you guys would let me get mine first lol, gonna feel bad if it doesn't turn out what we were expecting since I pushed so hard about getting nitefighter on their site.

By the way, the bt70 isn't released yet, bt21 just released again. I'll let everyone know AS SOON as I get word that its rolling out to gearbest.


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## freedailydeals (Jan 31, 2015)

BT21 listed price is really hard to resist. Looking forward to my new collection!










GoPro mount orientation in the picture seem to be off, else it will be even better to have an aluminium mount to go with this light.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

manbeer said:


> Ok that's a lot more heat sinking than I realized. From the first pics I saw I thought that the case went the full way back with small ridges like the yinding that were just silver on the inside. Now that I see they are actually fins and how the light is set up, yeah...it should be a winner. When I spoke to Andy at nitefighter he said they weren't planning on doing a 3 up. However if everything goes well with this, maybe they would be willing to hear us out and be our source for this project


What is it with places and not doing 3up light heads lol. Bt21 case design expanded would make an awesome 3up light


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

That BT21 looks a winner...No cables with it though???


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Gotta say the brightness levels on the BT21 seem kinda strange. 5% 20% 50% 100% Would be less of a deal on say the BT40S where you can click it up or down but jeez, 5%, almost like cycling through Off. And if you click too fast that activates Strobe, D'oh!.

BT21 about same weight as Yinding, cooling fins look like an improvement. Still, manual says can build up heat on Turbo or High, will automatically step down to Mid in that event. BT40S same thing but thermo regulator on mine has never tripped. tigris, did you find out the circuitry on this? Betting it's rated 2800mA.

Am digging control button on top. Find with most of my lamps having buttons in back, gotta wrap fingers around front in order to change modes without rotating out of place on bars. PITA blocking light from emitters when trying to adjust brightness!


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

andychrist said:


> Gotta say the brightness levels on the BT21 seem kinda strange. 5% 20% 50% 100% Would be less of a deal on say the BT40S where you can click it up or down but jeez, 5%, almost like cycling through Off. And if you click too fast that activates Strobe, D'oh!.


If it will go straight to "off" from any mode with a long press that would probably be ok. If not, it'll be a pita to cycle through all the modes. Also doesn't look like we can swap the driver like we can on Yinding.

The 5% mode can be good for fixing a flat or getting the bike out of the car, but ideally should be a hidden mode along with the strobe. You shouldn't have to scroll through it each time.

So, if we can get a better driver, neutral tint and fix the GoPro mount orientation, we have a winner.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yes Off is hidden, long press for .8 sec from any mode. Strobe I think is click twice within 1.5 sec once On. Agree, hiding Low somehow would have made a lot of sense.

Tint is already NW so that's good, guessing they are using U2 3C as seems most common and probably brightest currently available?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Xx


andychrist said:


> Yes Off is hidden, long press for .8 sec from any mode. Strobe I think is click twice within 1.5 sec once On. Agree, hiding Low somehow would have made a lot of sense.
> 
> Tint is already NW so that's good, guessing they are using U2 3C as seems most common and probably brightest currently available?


Hidden Off- check. Hidden strobe- check. Neutral white- check. Is the GoPro mount fixed now? How is the waterproofing?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I agree that 5% is too low to be in the normal mode cycle. On a custom driver I had programmed for me I had my main mode group 30% - 100% and then a 2nd mode group with a low (5%, 10%, or 15% - can't remember) and also strobe and beacon. I don't like the "angel eye" light because it's low is way too low.

Am liking this BT21 otherwise and will most likely pick one up when it's available! Guess there's no sense ordering it now. Why doesn't GearBest put it on their site with something like "pre-order" or "coming soon" with the buy button greyed out. The way it is now it looks like it's available and ready to ship. Buyers are going to be disappointed when they've bought and they are waiting and waiting for shipment notification! 

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah 5 percent would be best if a hidden mode. The gloworm has a dim mode hidden by long press that is about 100 lumens and sufficient for setting up or stopping for snacks, but when you've been running it full tilt and stop, your vision is accustomed to the light so it makes dim almost seem useless. If you are just getting started out it seems ok though. That being said, I rarely use it


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> Why doesn't GearBest put it on their site with something like "pre-order" or "coming soon" with the buy button greyed out. The way it is now it looks like it's available and ready to ship. Buyers are going to be disappointed when they've bought and they are waiting and waiting for shipment notification!
> 
> -Garry


Because it will probably be in stock till Tuesday/Wednesday and ready for shipping and, judging by the return info, by then they will already have 40+ orders which is huge wind in the back for this light, they are motivated to stock larger quantity, manufacturer is motivated to produce more and to make improvements and if I have to wait a week or even two I say that would be justified cause.
This way they already have cash rolling in and they are ready for investing in next batch, this also gives them return information on product popularity opposite to situation where they would have to go on limb and invest their own money in product that they know very little of for target group of customers that is also unknown to them.
You have to remember, most of this shops are just that a merchants, they provide a way for smaller or/and unknown manufacturers to offer their products to worldwide market for a fee. They don't do market research studies or customers satisfaction analysis, they will listen your wishes only if you make 1000+ pcs order per month (surely you noticed that everything that is done in China is done in large volumes, their production capacity is probably in "6000+pcs per month" range).

P.S. 5% is actually perfect if you ride in city or on lighted streets at night, consumes very little of battery juice, helps you see better it there is some [email protected] left on the road and also helps others spot you earlier than they would if you were completely lights off...


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

So is that BT31 for real or just a mock up? 

Triangular design was one of my suggestions for a three-up a good while back. 

BTW Yeah 5% does have its uses, what we are saying a PITA if you have to cycle through it from High back down to Mid — too close in effect from having to pass through Off. Not a deal breaker, it's just there.

Wonder whether all the NiteFighters do that little fade between mode thingy.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Can we get this light with a programmable driver?


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

andychrist said:


> So is that BT31 for real or just a mock up?


That is highly classified info 


varider said:


> Can we get this light with a programmable driver?


Highly unlikely and I mean like 99.99% unlikely.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Surely he is not being "serious" (concerning the BT31 simply being a mock up).  

-Garry


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## Corvette (Nov 20, 2005)

Wow, the BT31 indeed looks great! You've had our curiosity, now you have our attention


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bt31 doesn't exist though, its a computer mockup.

And that style defeats what were after, a flat 3 emitter. Basically take a yinding, bt21, etc and stretch it. Think glowworm xs.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Is he willing to customize the light at all? That is the name of the thread after all. 

This seems like a take it or leave it type of deal (that should have it's own thread). Did he fix the gopro mount? It's pointing the wrong way.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Guy the bt21 will have its own thread soon, ill be doing the review on it and such as soon as mine arrives.

Right now I dont know the lead time from order placed till gearbest gets them, have all that answered next week. China is on holiday at the moment ( May Day)

I will go ahead and get a discussion thread going so this can go over there and out of this thread lol.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Everyone interested in BT21 situation development, here's the link to tigers99 BT21 dedicated thread so you could easily navigate there -> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/nitefighter-bt21-2x-xm-l2-nw-light-965949.html
Btw, I do not see the reason why Nitefighter should invest more time and money and more money and time in developing 3 x XM-L2 light when they already cover wide range of the market with BT21, BT40s and BT70 that is already developed and tested, plas, the market is already flooded with different kinds of 3+ x XM-L/2 bike lights!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The reason simply is almost all 3+ units are round, we want a flat. But nobody seems to want to make it lol.


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## Sirius9 (Apr 24, 2013)

Here you go mate 





​


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Now we're talking get to work Sirius lol.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Hum sorry to be bothering you (again) guys but does the BT21 come with wires or you have to solder them later?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)




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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

All lightheads come with a connector for battery unless they have battery built in.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Does this have a standard MS connector?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

^If it's anything like the bt40, it uses the typical MS style plug


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Maybe the guys from ITUO will build us this light. I posted them a message here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/ituo-wiz-xp2-993398.html


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> Maybe the guys from ITUO will build us this light. I posted them a message here:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/ituo-wiz-xp2-993398.html


I echoed your response. I would love to see one of these in a 3-up ( flat / parallel ) version. ( see below )


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That as a 3x light head, some xp-l v6 emitters....varider awesome idea getting on that!!! That would be a sweet looking light with 3x set up


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks for the support guys.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

If you originally posted in this thread, then _please_ go over to the ITOU thread and let them know you are interested in a triple.

Three people replying to that thread in a week is pathetic. Let's make it happen. The more people post over there the more incentivized they will be.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/ituo-wiz-xp2-993398.html


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

For those people that are subscribed to this thread but haven't really kept up with the forum, ITUO has sent a prototype triple to Skyraider59 which looks very promising.

Here's the thread
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/ituo-wiz-xp3-triple-xm-l2-u3-bike-light-1002379.html


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