# KHS Montana Team Question circa 1993



## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

Hi all,

Fantastic forum here, love it, although some of it is unobtainium here in Australia, especially at the time of manufacture such as Bontrager OR frames.

A question for the riders and possibly ex-racers reading this board, does anyone own or know one that owns the KHS Montana Team mountain bike. I'm thinking around 1992 or 1993.
Frame colour was very distinctive being a Prussian blue and pink/fuschia rigid fork and stem and seat tube. I think the full spec. was Shimano Deore XT running gear all the way and the seat post, rims and handlebars by Ritchey. Tubing was Tange Prestige Ritchey Logic and was fantastically light, 24lbs as built with the XT thumbshifters _NOT_ the 1st or 2nd second generation Rapidfire shifters. I know there were 4 or 5 in the Newcastle area in N.S.W. but there were all ridden by sponsored racers. So if any riders out there own them (or did own them) post a few pics up and share some riding experiences please. I had a test ride of one (<2 miles on road) and it was a beautiful, balanced and responsive bike but was well outside my budget at the time, I think about $AU2,800 from memory.Any ideas on how many survived too?

Alex


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## mwr (Jul 17, 2004)

Here's one

http://www.eandsweb.com/cgi-bin/bikes.cgi?bike=KHSMontana+Team


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

mwr said:


> Here's one
> 
> http://www.eandsweb.com/cgi-bin/bikes.cgi?bike=KHSMontana+Team


Thats the one I was thinking of.

I wouldn't mind owing one.

There are enough out there to where you should be able to find one. You may have to import it, but it can be done.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Hey, that's a nice looking bike!! 

It's likely a little newer than the bike being described, as it came with full XTR. I'd imagine that the '91 woudl have been XT (although I don't a catalog to confrim), and thumbies may put it even earlier.

I'm not sure how many of those were made, but I've not seen many. The "team" paint scheme was available on other models as well. The Team and Pro shared the same frameset, so either one should build up to the same weight and ride the same.


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## floibex (Feb 7, 2004)

... the pink panther team came with full xtr m900 gruppo, i sold some of these. great bike, fantastic handling, fast like a roadbike, very good component package, fair pricing











> ... At the time I bought my "Pro" in '93 I'd opted not to get this paint scheme as I thought that the pink was a bit much ...


my words when i took a pro as personal ride 

ciao
flo


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Yep, here in canada, the pink panther montana team cost $1400 cdn... an XTR group cost $1200cdn. So for $200 more you got the frame, fork, tires, rims, spokes, oh and that Sella Italia Flite Ti saddle.


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## fat-tony (Sep 6, 2005)

*khs montana pro 1992*

I purchased new and still ride a KHS Montana Pro FZ (1992). It came with a RockShox Mag 20. Pretty much full XT groupo with a mixture of Zoom. It came with Rapidfire shifters, but I opted for XT thumbies. The frame came painted a dark bronze color and had white lettering with FZ in purple. Looked great with those golden magnesium legs on the mag 20. I always thought that this bike really handled well and was light compared to others around that price range. The reason I purchased it was exactly what others of previuosly stated, that it had nice components for a fair price at the time. I think I paid $900 new at the time and added a Italia Selle Flite. It was written up in MBA or somewhere in a review and I tracked a dealer down in Jacksonville, Alabama who ordered it for me.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

I had one, a 16" frame, for a long time. Thing was, the top tube was really way too short.
It had a very smooth ride, the rear end gave some on bumps and you didn't feel beat up after a long day in the saddle but it also had good acceleration and never felt whippy. In a word, steel.
I rode the rigid fork, too, and had the thing set up with parts which, in retrospect, really didn't fit the style of the frame at all: Machine Tech cantis, CNC'd levers, and then later a Halson Inversion fork.
I rebuilt it with more appropriate stuff and gave it my little brother.
I had a lot of good times riding it in high school, went to Tsali with it twice, and then brought it with me to Florida where I went to college. Definitely worth the 300 dollars I paid for the frame and fork!


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

There was also the 1992 Montana Comp FZ which was an important model in itself for one important reason. It was the first production model of any brand to mix and match parts across a wide range of shimano groups to offer a combination of features at a lower price. They mixed deore DX BB, cranks, front derailleur, chain, front hub, and brakes with XTR shifters/levers, rear hub, rear derailleur, and cassette.


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## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

OK so when did XTR come out? Was it late 1992 or 1993. DeeEight's comments are spot on as my mother has a Montana Comp with Deore LX crankset, BB and hubs but the derailleurs and shifters are Deore DX and are the 1st generation STI, i.e. push- push and not the push- pull. I've had the 2nd generation push-pull STI Deore XT on my Diamond Back Axis until I went back to XT thumbies and upgraded to Avid V-brakes. Actually this Montana Comp has the Ritchey Logic tubeset by Tange too.

Now the KHS Montana Team I'm thinking of must have been in the last year that Deore XT was the top Shimano groupset so that must be 1991 or 1992 and it definitely was Ritchey Logic tubing by Tange although the colour in the web link posted is perfect so maybe they stuck with that colour over 2-3 years. Love the 'Pink Panther' nickname btw! Also I think KHS was one of the few companies to spec. their top bike with the XT thumbies as most of the mass producing companies seemed to be speccing XT with the 1st generation STI for the group set. This was brought up in the bike test that one of the pioneering Aussie mountain bike magazines did on the KHS. I can remember my LBS saying that the Montana Team was hard to get hold of so to have 4 or 5 in the one area was pretty amazing. 

Also what did the FZ stand for in the Montana Comp?


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## Veloculture (Dec 18, 2005)

Chuck at Pacific Coast Cycles has a 1993(?) KHS Montana Team frame for sale. no fork and the paint is slighly faded. maybe some good polishing will bring the paint back to it's former glory.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> There was also the 1992 Montana Comp FZ which was an important model in itself for one important reason. It was the first production model of any brand to mix and match parts across a wide range of shimano groups to offer a combination of features at a lower price. They mixed deore DX BB, cranks, front derailleur, chain, front hub, and brakes with XTR shifters/levers, rear hub, rear derailleur, and cassette.


Interesting to see that much of a mix. IIRC, my 1991 Rockhopper Comp had a combination of DX and LX, but I think it was only about two DX parts (shifters and maybe RD). The ParkPre Hammer I sold not too many months ago also had full LX except for DX shifters. In researching that bike, I found an old MBA article about it which applauded ParkPre for including the DX shifters (1st gen. Rapidfire) instead of LX shifters, which, according to the article, were only thumbies in 1991. I assume this is why Specialized put the DX shifters on my Rockhopper Comp, as well. If they'd only known then what we know now, they would have stuck with the thumbies...


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

cegrover said:


> Interesting to see that much of a mix. IIRC, my 1991 Rockhopper Comp had a combination of DX and LX, but I think it was only about two DX parts (shifters and maybe RD).


The '93 KHS Mantana Pro, which I rode for many years came stock with:

XTR: Shifter/brake combo levers, rear hub, casette

XT: rear derailler

DX: cranks, front hub, front derailler

KHS was definitely willing to mix and match. I originally looked at the KHS as it was the least expensive bike available with XTR shifters in 1993. I test rode it, and several other bikes, and thought that the KHS was the best rider.


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## fat-tony (Sep 6, 2005)

alexk said:


> .
> 
> Also what did the FZ stand for in the Montana Comp?


For some reason (I could be wrong here) but I think they labeled it FZ because it had a suspension fork?


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## fat-tony (Sep 6, 2005)

DeeEight said:


> There was also the 1992 Montana Comp FZ which was an important model in itself for one important reason. It was the first production model of any brand to mix and match parts across a wide range .


My KHS even came new with a 2.1 size tire on the front and a 1.95 on the rear. tricky


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

1992 for XTR


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

fat-tony said:


> For some reason (I could be wrong here) but I think they labeled it FZ because it had a suspension fork?


Definitely true. Not sure what the "FZ" actually stood for.

And like you, my KHS came with a 2.1 Dart in front and 1.9 Smoke in back. When the Smoke wore out, I replaced it with a 2.1 Smoke, and decided that I much prefered the 1.9 and ended up replacing the 2.1 right away.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

While many brands might up-list one part, like a rear derailleur, or the shifters (the quality to the DX/XT STI shifters was better than the LX and lower until the 1993 model overhauls which included a completely redone Deore LX group), KHS was the first to do it for more than just they "hey look, its a Deore XT derailleur" reasoning of buyers looking at stuff on the showroom floor.

I think the Trek 970 in 1992 was full DX except for the shifters which were the Deore XT Rapidfireplus STI's for example. KHS however decided that they needed more than one 24 speed model in the lineup in 1992, so since all the shimano stuff was compatible anyways, they went with the XTR stuff for the back end and the DX for the rest because the XTR shifters still weren't fully indexed anyways in front, so the lack of pickup ramps on the DX rings made little difference. Also the crankset was only like two and a half ounces heavier anyways. But it cost one third as much as the XTR crankset.


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## HYTEC (Jun 20, 2006)

I've owned 2 KHS montana team,s

The first one was a 1990/91 with Ritchey logic blue/pink 20" frame by tange with 2 waterbottle mounts on the lower tube and LOGIC decals on the rigid fork ->it was probably a full repainted RITCHEY ULTRA?
If i remember it correctly it was for KHS team riders only...not more than 20 are made ->thats what they told me. At the time i had good connections

This was the best bike...it was fast! it handled quicker than the second one.
But unfortunately after 2 years this bike was stolen from me:madman:

The second one was a 1992/93 with true temper oxII blue/pink frame with full XTR m900
I've had this one for many years and i have been wondering if there is a bike that can do better than this bike (besides the first KHS TEAM )

Now i have a Kelly with True Temper OX platinum hardtail with a Kelly rigid fork and this one comes close:thumbsup: its faster on the fast tracks but overall handling is a litle bit slower. But its a 29er (so i cant compare)

If you can't get a KHS montana team or a RITCHEY ULTRA and you have a lot to spent...go to a frame builder and pick the tubes you like and let him make one!

*Have fun ....*


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

Hey guys, looking for a little information on the KHS Mantana framesets, specifically the true temper ones.

Are the True Temper framesets all the same across the line, or were there differences in the lower end models? 

Any info on the straight Mantana (not comp or pro, but still id'd as a True Temper) frameset?

Thanks.

Plum


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Plum said:


> Hey guys, looking for a little information on the KHS Mantana framesets, specifically the true temper ones.
> 
> Are the True Temper framesets all the same across the line, or were there differences in the lower end models?
> 
> ...


The tube set varies by model. The series is called "Montaña" which in Spanish means mountain. So it was the designation used on all of the "mountain" bikes. There should an actual model indicator in a different font on the down tube: Summit, Descent, Pro, Team, etc.


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks Laffeaux, any links to online catalogs? The only pics I have don't show which Matana model is it, only the Mantana text is there apparently.

Purple color, frame and fork, appears to be a 1" threaded Hs, low end components, but I'm interested if the frame is worth getting to make into a weekend rider at my parent's house...

Plum


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

I have a '93 catalog (actually, a 10-page ad in MBA magazine) but I've not scanned it. Do you have a picture on the frame?


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> I have a '93 catalog (actually, a 10-page ad in MBA magazine) but I've not scanned it. Do you have a picture on the frame?


Just a couple poor ones. I know that a lot of companies used very similar framesets across the product lines, just wondering if this one is worth picking up for the frameset..

Thanks.

Plum


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Definitely true. Not sure what the "FZ" actually stood for.
> 
> And like you, my KHS came with a 2.1 Dart in front and 1.9 Smoke in back. When the Smoke wore out, I replaced it with a 2.1 Smoke, and decided that I much prefered the 1.9 and ended up replacing the 2.1 right away.


Front Zuspension.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Starting in '94 there was a "Montaña" frame with no suffix. BikePedia lists it as a Hi-Ten steel frame, and based on that crank set I'd not be surprised.

http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=1994&Brand=KHS&Model=Montana&Type=bike

Unless you're looking for a dirt-cheap commuter bike, I think that I'd keep looking.


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Starting in '94 there was a "Montaña" frame with no suffix. BikePedia lists it as a Hi-Ten steel frame, and based on that crank set I'd not be surprised.
> 
> http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=1994&Brand=KHS&Model=Montana&Type=bike
> 
> Unless you're looking for a dirt-cheap commuter bike, I think that I'd looking.


Thanks again Laffeaux, was hoping there was a diamond (or at least a semi precious) tubeset hidden under those craptastic parts..

Plum


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

laffeaux said:


> I have a '93 catalog (actually, a 10-page ad in MBA magazine) but I've not scanned it.


I would really like to see the pages relating to the Pro fz some time.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

mechagouki said:


> I would really like to see the pages relating to the Pro fz some time.


I'll clean this up a bit and make it look nice. But here's a rough cut.

1993 KHS Catalog:
http://www.oldmountainbikes.com/khs/1993/


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## rigidftw (Mar 21, 2010)

i've got a repainted one as my town ride. works great as an ss.
framewise it's pretty flexy compared to my older bridgestone, but it's a fun ride. wouldn't want to give it away.
and i did tease some semi-pro xcriders with it not long ago

edit: a 93 team of course.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

laffeaux said:


> I'll clean this up a bit and make it look nice. But here's a rough cut.
> 
> 1993 KHS Catalog:
> http://www.oldmountainbikes.com/khs/1993/


That's awesome! Thanks so much. I wonder if the 22.9lbs stock was a real weight or a 'marketing weight'. I'm certainly inspired to put a bit more time and effort into mine, currently just under 24 single-speeded.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

fat-tony said:


> For some reason (I could be wrong here) but I think they labeled it FZ because it had a suspension fork?


Yeah I know this is an old thread ... I had an FZ with a rigid fork, so FZ didn't stand for suspension. I satisfied myself by thinking it meant "Full Zoot" and let it go.


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## Steeljaws (May 2, 2010)

I have a couple of KHS bikes still in shipping boxes, never assembled...1997 Comp's with XT/LX gruppo , 15" in black, and 17" in black/yellow....I should get these puppies put together....wonder what they're worth today?


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## Rasta Monkey (Jan 3, 2010)

Used to own the 91 KHS team back then,it come with free original Team KHS helmet,shorts & jersey.Everthings gone now except the jersey.Colour still intact till now.
Really missed this ride.:thumbsup:


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I found this over the weekend at a neighbor's garage sale. She's a roadie and had some bike stuff out so I stopped to take a look. It wasn't actually for sale, but was hanging back in the garage. I made a fair offer, and she included a pair of NOS 747 pedals.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Nice! 1" Judy SL too - I need one of those!


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Nice. That may have been the last year for the blue/pink team colors.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

I just picked up another frame and original fork - i think it was a team originally though it has been painted a matte silver- looks like pink under the silver on the fork.. The head angle on this bike is crazy steep - I thought maybe it had had a front end crash, but then I compared it to laffeaux`scans and it looks the same - think this one is going to become my full rigid XC racer, going to be a fast bike for sure.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Sweet catch. You're lucky you have a model year where you can use a seat QR- my (I think 1995) model just has a split at the top of the seatstays just behind the top of the seat tube, and bolt which cinches the gap closed.
Very smooth-riding machine, not whippy, not too stiff. I rode mine for a long time.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

mechagouki said:


> I just picked up another frame and original fork - i think it was a team originally though it has been painted a matte silver- looks like pink under the silver on the fork..


Several models came in the team colors (i.e the "Comp" came in with the same paint). A pink fork doesn't always mean that it's a "Team" model. All of the decals were removed?


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Yep, no decals. Frame is very light and has a 1" head tube - I think the lower models were 1 1/8" from 91 on?


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## HYTEC (Jun 20, 2006)

mechagouki said:


> Yep, no decals. Frame is very light and has a 1" head tube - I think the lower models were 1 1/8" from 91 on?


The comp frames i know have 1.1/8" 
The team frames have 1" ...so i think its a team frame.


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