# Karpiel



## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

As far as I know, Karpiel closed shop, right? 

Now, they have a website that will be up and running next month, and modified, limited-edition variants of the Armageddon and Disco Volante will be released, and then, new frame designs for 2008! 

What's next? 

BTW, what is the best Karpiel frame for you guys?


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

I heard some "big name" company bought them out and was going to start building them again. Or something a long those lines.


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## 08nwsula (Oct 19, 2005)

haven't they gone in and out of production a few times?


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## yep (Sep 16, 2005)

they are back, im getting a new rear triangle made for me right now.


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

Karpiel is probably going to open back up, just like the site says. Hopefully they'll do better this time around. Its unfortunate there is such a stigma attached to their name, but they are great bikes.

I might put an order in for one if I can.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

08nwsula said:


> haven't they gone in and out of production a few times?


yep.................. stay away


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

What stigma is that? I don't know too much about the company/bikes. They looked pretty kick ass to me.


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

I hope that this doesn't start one of those multi-page threads again - its not necessary.

to rep_1969: use the search function and type in Karpiel - you will see some of the old threads about them. 

I personally won't slag the company. They have had some issues though.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Is it Jan at the helm?

I remember someone here was using his tooling to supply frames in the last year.


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

I think that's unrelated. I met a few of those guys when they came out to AZ to ride. 
Pretty sure Jan is behind this, although I have no idea in what fashion. 
I think its cool, I'm curious to see what they've done to update the Army!


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## jamesdc (Oct 31, 2005)

I'm glad Karpiel is back, they are great bikes. As for the one I recomend is the disco volante, all the others are overkill unless your name is Josh Bender.


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## austinb89 (Nov 6, 2004)

jamesdc said:


> I'm glad Karpiel is back, they are great bikes. As for the one I recomend is the disco volante, all the others are overkill unless your name is Josh Bender.


my freind down the street bought a disco, he had no idea about riding, bought it just for the hell of it, i ride it more than he does honestly. but back to the bike, the disco pedals pretty dam good, pretty light and he has a monster t on it, i personally love the frame i would love a new one


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## Mongiafer (May 29, 2005)

Their Shock killer (leverage ratio) frames are outdated this days when brands like intense are testing the use of longer shocks for the same travel in order to get down the leverage.

Said that i would love to ride a karpiel bike just beacuse I like all the creepy background story of the company hahahha. This Jan is a Myth to me.


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## CountryBoy (Oct 24, 2006)

My cousin has a Armageddon with super monster Ts. Little bit of an overkill!


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

funky looking with 2 shocks...


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

mrpercussive said:


> funky looking with 2 shocks...


Now that is overkill.

Why does the Armageddon have two shocks? If I remember, Bender's factory 'geddon has a custom remote reservoir, not another shock.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

for rebound, or something


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

It's not for additional travel?

BTW, where can you get an Armageddon? ebay?


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## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

suicidebomber said:


> It's not for additional travel?
> 
> BTW, where can you get an Armageddon? ebay?


From what I heard, the air shock helps the rebound to feel more "lively"


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## mtbgiovanny (Feb 13, 2006)

mrpercussive said:


> funky looking with 2 shocks...


now.. fvck that's weird, although must be really cool to try ir


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## yep (Sep 16, 2005)

thats the apocalypse. they designed it specifically for drops 50ft and up. theres a computer chip in one of the shocks that counts how much air time you have. and if you go any less than 50ft. the shocks lock up and you land on a 60lb hardtail. sooo sick sonnn


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## gruczniak (Jun 22, 2005)

Nice one yep


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

yep said:


> thats the apocalypse. they designed it specifically for drops 50ft and up. theres a computer chip in one of the shocks that counts how much air time you have. and if you go any less than 50ft. the shocks lock up and you land on a 60lb hardtail. sooo sick sonnn


Eh? It looks like an 'geddon to me. Josh Bender used the Armageddon, right?


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## daisycutter (Sep 18, 2005)

*The air shock is to slow the rebound*

bender took some tough falls (catapult) because the shocks back then didn't slow the rebound as well as they do now


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

So you think that with the state of shock technology today can help Bender stick his landings?

And eliminate the need for the additional air shock on the Apocalypse?


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## gruczniak (Jun 22, 2005)

I guess he was using apocalypse.


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## yep (Sep 16, 2005)

anybody can be a josh bender.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Mongiafer said:


> Their Shock killer (leverage ratio) frames are outdated this days when brands like *intense* are testing the use of longer shocks for the same travel in order to get down the leverage.


I think you mean Foes with the 2:1


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

LarryFahn said:


> I think you mean Foes with the 2:1


No, Intense "M5" is using longer shocks to lower leverage.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Proof


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

yea. the two shocker is the apocalypse, the Armageddon is just a less absurd version.


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

chooofoojoo said:


> yea. the two shocker is the apocalypse, the Armageddon is just a less absurd version.


Question: is the Armageddon a good race chassis?


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## jamesdc (Oct 31, 2005)

suicidebomber said:


> Question: is the Armageddon a good race chassis?


They are still overkill, aren't they around 11 or 12 inches travel, go with the disco volante if you want a karpiel, it is only 9 inches of travel.


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

But is the Armageddon adjustable from 9-12 inches? 

The Disco V from 7-9 inches?


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## DrEVS (Apr 18, 2005)

suicidebomber said:


> Question: is the Armageddon a good race chassis?


The simple answer is no. It's a bighit freeride bike. It's overbuilt. It's heavy. It has a high leverage shock ratio. It's a badass bike, but not a racebike.


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

DrEVS said:


> The simple answer is no. It's a bighit freeride bike. It's overbuilt. It's heavy. It has a high leverage shock ratio. It's a badass bike, but not a racebike.


If it's not a race chassis, as you say it is, then why do these guys think otherwise?http://reviews.southerndownhill.com/html/Karpiel_Armageddon.html


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## DrEVS (Apr 18, 2005)

suicidebomber said:


> If it's not a race chassis, as you say it is, then why do these guys think otherwise


Because... they're british, that review is 4 years old, and they probably got a free one for calling it the best thing ever made out of aluminum. 
The Army was ahead of it's time, but time has caught up, and karp has gone under. or maybe not. who knows...
/still an awesome frame.


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

Well, we'll just have to see what updates will be done to the Armageddon and the Disco Volante this time around. Though I have a feeling that these updates will own...:thumbsup:


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

DrEVS said:


> The simple answer is no. It's a bighit freeride bike. It's overbuilt. It's heavy. It has a high leverage shock ratio. It's a badass bike, but not a racebike.


What! I sold my Armageddon 6 months ago, and yeah its a race chasis built with big hit capabilities. Its 10 lbs so its not heavy by any means, its a upward forward arch making it rail corners alot better than vertical or rearward path bikes. It works best at 9.5 - 10" setting and I would buy another without a question. 
The Armageddon is a race bike that was built in an era of 10"+ being the thing but dont let that fool you, geometry is where its at as well as wheel path and it has both.


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

I still see a lot of Armageddons being built for hucking- you know, Stratos/Risse/Super Monster forks, super-wide rims, 3.0 Gazza setups.

But the 'geddon is supposed to be race worthy...


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## acdcfan1283 (Mar 20, 2004)

mrpercussive said:


> funky looking with 2 shocks...


ahhh my old frame heh
hows she holdin up for ya? good i hope


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

suicidebomber said:


> I still see a lot of Armageddons being built for hucking- you know, Stratos/Risse/Super Monster forks, super-wide rims, 3.0 Gazza setups.
> 
> But the 'geddon is supposed to be race worthy...


I raced both a Disco and an Army(2nd CA DH series on it). Big rough cry for your mommy courses it was great. I worked for Jan many years and would never tell anybody to buy a bike from him. Now if Mikey and Kent the guys that took over the last time I might. Like it was said before both bike are very outdated. Most of the news shocks will not even fit. I got a DHX in my Army, but lost all the adjustment...ALL OF IT!!!


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

Yipes.. so how much travel were you stuck at when you placed the DHX on it?

Will you be getting the updated Disco or Armageddon later in the year if you got the chance?

Though Jan Karpiel will still be doing the designs, the website boasted of new people...


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

dhtahoe is right in that the Army is very outdated at this point. From what I understand, they are going to try to correct some of those issues (rear thru axle for one), but the leverage on the shock is something that really needs to be addressed. 

I ran an Apocalypse for a little while - I loved that bike, really want another one. It was 45 lbs complete with a Shiver and Deemaxes...lighter than my Foes Mono. The feeling of the suspension was unlike anything else I've ridden.

Downsides? The linkage adjustments sometimes moved on their own, the bike felt very tall and long, and it liked to eat derailleurs. Honestly I never had any issues with mine though - ran it with a Fox Vanilla RC and a Fox Float Air. 

The Army's I saw in AZ, that were welded up AFTER Karpiel went under, were amazing - you can maybe find pics on Ridemonkey. And in terms of a nice rear shock - Avalanche. 'Nuff said. And the idea that you can't "race" these bikes is absurd - Vic Marlow seemed to do pretty darn well on both an Army and Apoc. 

I for one am looking forward to seeing what happens. But then again, I like unconventional stuff like that.


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

The main reason why I got curious of Karps is because of Josh Bender clips on Youtube. 

If I definitely had the money, an Armageddon or a Disco V is definitely on my shortlist.

What do you mean that the Apoc eats derailleurs?


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## uncle-mofo (Jul 14, 2006)

Whats the story with this Jan guy anyway?


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

On a few drops, the chain growth would cause the rear derailleur to break. Running a long cage SRAM helped after that happened, but it was still an issue. 

Lots of people rode Karpiels and either loved them or hated them. Its a big bike, it rides big, pedals well for the travel, but it has some quirks and its not cheap. The new ones are going to be very expensive I'm sure, probably more than an M3 or Foes. The Apocalypse ran $3500 frame only originally. Also, the Army and Apoc ran better with a big fork up front, which is why you see/saw lots of them with Risse Champs. Vicious has his set up with a 888 and seems to love it, mine had a Shiver, but I wouldn't run anything less than 8". You also can't run anything smaller than a 38T ring, preferably a 40T. 

I would try to ride one before you even think about investing in one. I know that would be tough to do, but seriously, buying a boutique bike like this based on video is not a good idea. Unless you have money to burn!


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## Mongiafer (May 29, 2005)

uncle-mofo said:


> Whats the story with this Jan guy anyway?


Oh, where should we start? Looks like the man forgot to heat treat a few frames....Which of course got broken and then when people sent them for warranty, hi did not return them in time or somethin. Besides that people says that he owe monye to a lot of people in Us and that he broke beacause he spent much of his money in women, drugs, acohol and other primordial needs.
Maybe another member could do a little sinthesis of the history.


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

please don't start the Jan-bashing. its not necessary. those who were involved know what happened, those who weren't don't need to. 

talk about the bikes themselves!


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## Internal14 (Jan 21, 2004)

KavuRider said:


> please don't start the Jan-bashing. its not necessary. those who were involved know what happened, those who weren't don't need to.
> 
> talk about the bikes themselves!


Is a bike more than a pile of tubes? People talk about bikes having a certain 'soul' to them...well, if bikes have souls then these are satin's children....that crooked sumnabiyatch...but oh yeah...we're talking bikes....not bike companies and the idiot that burnt many many people.

I hope Jan is part of this new company....and people send him loads of cash...and then he can pay off his past debts to make it all right in the world again.
*******holding breath***********turning blue************:skep: ************

ok....back to your regularly scheduled love of Karpiels.

Search function people...use it!


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

KavuRider said:


> I would try to ride one before you even think about investing in one. I know that would be tough to do, but seriously, buying a boutique bike like this based on video is not a good idea. Unless you have money to burn!


 You are definitely right on this one. I guess I still need to try it out before I commit. I am just looking at bike frames I could purchase in the near future after I rip my HT apart.


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## motodirtlover (Aug 6, 2004)

I used to be a Karpiel dealer years ago. I rode a bunch of them. The army frames were good in the 9.5" travel setting ( most progressive) with a big(ger) fork. There was a bit of an issue with delivery time, promises, and funds. I am still owed a shock. I won't be holding my breath.


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

KavuRider said:


> dhtahoe is right in that the Army is very outdated at this point. From what I understand, they are going to try to correct some of those issues (rear thru axle for one), but the leverage on the shock is something that really needs to be addressed.
> 
> I ran an Apocalypse for a little while - I loved that bike, really want another one. It was 45 lbs complete with a Shiver and Deemaxes...lighter than my Foes Mono. The feeling of the suspension was unlike anything else I've ridden.
> 
> ...


Leverage ratio is not that bad on an Armageddon, the older Disco's from 1999-2001 were the shock eaters, the only fix for those frames were Avalanche shocks, or swapping the upper links to the 2002-04 ones and run a 8.5x2.5 shock. Also how did it eat derailleurs? I've been riding Karpiels since 2001 and the only derailleurs lost were from crashes & rocks. If you were breaking derailleurs, sounds to me your chain was too short.


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

Brian, keep in mind my experience was with the Apocalypse, not the Army. 
The issue was with Shimano derailleurs not being able to handle the excessive chain growth of that frame. I switched to SRAM and it was fixed.


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

KavuRider said:


> Brian, keep in mind my experience was with the Apocalypse, not the Army.
> The issue was with Shimano derailleurs not being able to handle the excessive chain growth of that frame. I switched to SRAM and it was fixed.


They are virtually the same bike, all I've ever used are Shimano derailleurs, I think the movement in the Shimano derailleur is a better setup than a fixed like the Sram, that's my opinion.


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

motodirtlover said:


> I used to be a Karpiel dealer years ago. I rode a bunch of them. The army frames were good in the 9.5" travel setting ( most progressive) with a big(ger) fork. There was a bit of an issue with delivery time, promises, and funds. I am still owed a shock. I won't be holding my breath.


Waiting time? That's going to be with most frame builders, Santa Cruz seem to have lots of issues with getting there frames out the door in a timely manor. Got to remember Jan was pretty much a one man show, he didn't do that bad. The longest I had to wait for a frame was only 2 weeks past the original delivery date. The few prior they were actually early.:thumbsup:


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

The Apocalypse had issues with chain growth - mine did and another guy I talked to when setting mine up had the same issue. But that was only in extreme cases. For some reason, both of us switching to SRAM solved the problem. I'm not bashing it, I'm just stating what my experience was. 

Still loved that bike.


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

KavuRider said:


> The Apocalypse had issues with chain growth - mine did and another guy I talked to when setting mine up had the same issue. But that was only in extreme cases. For some reason, both of us switching to SRAM solved the problem. I'm not bashing it, I'm just stating what my experience was.
> 
> Still loved that bike.


It's all good:thumbsup:


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## acdcfan1283 (Mar 20, 2004)

KavuRider said:


> The Apocalypse had issues with chain growth - mine did and another guy I talked to when setting mine up had the same issue. But that was only in extreme cases. For some reason, both of us switching to SRAM solved the problem. I'm not bashing it, I'm just stating what my experience was.
> 
> Still loved that bike.


i snapped a shimano deraileur on the apoc too...just a thought haha. due to chain growth issues, but ya haha


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## Thrillkil (Dec 17, 2004)

some minor updates just went live to the karpiel.com site - apparently, the new site is going live on the 25th, and presumably that's when we'll see the new stuff. They changed the Karpiel logo, however, much to my chagrin. The old one had a wonderful modern aesthetic to it.


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## acdcfan1283 (Mar 20, 2004)

hmmm interesting. Curious to see whats going to come into play here heh


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## dirtysancheez (Sep 24, 2005)

*New Karpiel*

Here is something different from Karpiel, check the bike out I found this on a local reno website www.dhreno.com good luck reading it though. I had an Army and it was a tank... it was needed for riding @ northstar. though It would not compete with the Uzzi vpx weight wise(minus the travel) and the V-10 uses less stroke for travel!:thumbsup:


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

Thrillkil said:


> some minor updates just went live to the karpiel.com site - apparently, the new site is going live on the 25th, and presumably that's when we'll see the new stuff. They changed the Karpiel logo, however, much to my chagrin. The old one had a wonderful modern aesthetic to it.


I don't know man, I like the new Karpiel logo, as much as I liked the old one.


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

Thrillkil said:


> some minor updates just went live to the karpiel.com site - apparently, the new site is going live on the 25th, and presumably that's when we'll see the new stuff. They changed the Karpiel logo, however, much to my chagrin. The old one had a wonderful modern aesthetic to it.


All I can say is.........Stay tuned:thumbsup:


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## Vicious (Jun 21, 2006)

mrpercussive said:


> funky looking with 2 shocks...


Since that pic I've actually replaced the dual shock with a 9x3 Avy DHS with Ti spring. With a few other part changes, the bike is down around 43.5#

It's FOR SALE if anyone is interested.


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## acdcfan1283 (Mar 20, 2004)

Vicious said:


> Since that pic I've actually replaced the dual shock with a 9x3 Avy DHS with Ti spring. With a few other part changes, the bike is down around 43.5#
> 
> It's FOR SALE if anyone is interested.


mmm there he is. How's she been treatin ya?


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

"limited COLLECTORS edition". OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.K. Wow they have reached "collector" status now. :madman:


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## themarsvolta55 (Dec 23, 2004)

well...... new site launches in 2 days

www.karpiel.com


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## Snowpug (Apr 23, 2007)

Ha! Check out the customer notice in the bottom left corner....priceless! 

I wouldn't ride one even if it came with lifetime free blowjobs from Jessica Biel.


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## poppy (Jan 24, 2006)

So you say .


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

dhtahoe said:


> "limited COLLECTORS edition". OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.K. Wow they have reached "collector" status now. :madman:


Be nice Mikey, big changes are happening VERY soon.

You going to be at N* opening weekend?


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

Snowpug said:


> Ha! Check out the customer notice in the bottom left corner....priceless!
> 
> I wouldn't ride one even if it came with lifetime free blowjobs from Jessica Biel.


Why wouldn't you ride one? Bad experience in the past?


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

Brian HCM#1 said:


> Be nice Mikey, big changes are happening VERY soon.
> 
> You going to be at N* opening weekend?


Nothing will change if they keep the name. That's the big issue. Who will trust the name? Like I have said in the past. If I had not gone extended periods eating ramen while working for Jan maybe it would be different. I know the people I ended up oweing money to over the whole deal are not very nice to me at all. So why do I need to play nice again?


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

dhtahoe said:


> Nothing will change if they keep the name. That's the big issue. Who will trust the name? Like I have said in the past. If I had not gone extended periods eating ramen while working for Jan maybe it would be different. I know the people I ended up oweing money to over the whole deal are not very nice to me at all. So why do I need to play nice again?


I understand where you had issues with Jan, that's fair in your defense. However, Jan and the Karpiel name are trying to make a mend right now. Give the new company a chance to prove themselves.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

Brian HCM#1 said:


> I understand where you had issues with Jan, that's fair in your defense. However, Jan and the Karpiel name are trying to make a mend right now. Give the new company a chance to prove themselves.


Absolutely not!!! Nothing against you Brian. That bitterness will NEVER go away. He wants to make amends how about backpay? Trying to defend Jan will only reflect on you good or bad so be careful. Most of my "bad reputation" can be traced back to when I worked there. One more thing I still have to face a bunch of people week to week in Reno that he still owes money. Just because he's gone doesn't mean that I stopped welding, fabricating and dealing with all those vendors. At least MOST of them are cool enough to know that there was not much more I could do at the time... That and I still do businees with them and didn't skip town.


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## LandonVega (Jul 14, 2004)

jessica beil... your retarded


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