# which MCE optics will win



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Which optic is going to be the killer that every one will want 

and which optic maker is going to nail the issues so a 5 degree spot is just that 
not a 12 degree 4 leaf clover .

and a 10 degree medium is not a 20 degree flood


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm betting on the Ledil EVA and LM1...


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Ah, that's the $6.40 question. Based upon no evidence whatsoever, I'm guessing the current crop of 26mm optics won't cut the mustard, due to the spacing of MC-E's 4 dice. So I'm keen to see how Ledil's EVA performs.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I have a ledil LM1 and will eventually post beam shots when I finish the light. I went with the soothe spot. Its a very nice clean beam but not all that spotty. I am a little worried its not going to be that great on my helmet. Guess I have to finish the light to find out. One thing about the LM1 that's really disappointing is that the lens is new for the MC-E but the holder is for the XP-E and snaps on to the XP-E, it dosnt snap onto my MC-E and just sits there and will have to be glued. I am still holding out hope for the boomerang reflector and kind of wishing I had gone that route. Of course with out really nice glass all the extra efficiency is killed by the window that covers the front.


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## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

Yeah, I'm holding a huge hope for the Boomerang reflectors, but 10 degrees is the tightest they come in, so I'm not sure how well that will work out. Then again, not too much more spread out than my 6 degree spot... and with a lot more punch and power I would hope.


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## il2mb (Jan 27, 2005)

Just finished up trying a couple of ledil mc-e optics. I ordered the CMC-D and the CMC-M. My dual Q5 light head uses the XR-E equivalent CMC-D but on the MC-E the spread is noticeably wider. Almost like the XR-E Ledil -M optic. I think I need the smooth spot to compliment the -D optic. The beam is wider than I prefer. However, I was very impressed with the uniformity. Nice smooth wall of light. 

I setup a dual MC-E (K BIN) and ran it off a 16 volt battery and a 3023-1000 Buck. On each chip the leds were in series but each chip in parallel to one another so I was only driving around .45amps into each led. I estimate a little over 800 Lumens. Quite a bit more light than the dual Q5 setup. Interesting, I can feel more heat on my hand when I place it in the beam path than on the dual Q5 light. 

Dual MC-E > 2(14v x .45A) = 12.6 watts
Dual Q5 > 2(3.5v x .9A) = 6.3 watts

Gonna be a challenge to dissipate all that heat..

I'll try to get a pic soon. I haven't put the thing in one of my cases but I was impressed enough to order more leds (m bin). This time on a series configured star.


Bob


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

Don't have optics yet, but was playing with my MC-E. I mounted it to a series-wired star and temporarily fixed it to a 5lb cast weight (super sized heat sink) with some thermal paste. The only other bare emitter I have is a Cree P4 (I think), so I set it up the same way (its nice to have a dual channel power supply).

Running at 500mA, the MC-E is BLINDING!! I still have spots floating in my eyes! It made the P4 look old and dim.

Can't wait to get some optics to try. This thing ROCKS!


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

That's good to know


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

Also, (and I mentioned this somewhere else) the Vf is closer to 12.5V when all four dice are wired in series...


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

dnlwthrn said:


> Also, (and I mentioned this somewhere else) the Vf is closer to 12.5V when all four dice are wired in series...


Mr Trout mentioned this from his optic testing rig also. Very useful information for people like me who only have 14.8v packs!


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Mr Trout mentioned this from his optic testing rig also. Very useful information for people like me who only have 14.8v packs!


Yes the Vf is lower on the newer LEDs. Im measuring around 3.3v at 1A on new R2s.

Anyone notice the promising MCE optics are getting about as big as the MR11??? :skep:


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

I really don't have a problem with that. Right now I've got a triple Q5 setup that is MR11 sized. It actually would be kind of nice to have the single MC-E fit in the same housing, as I wouldn't have to design a new one. Downside is the bulk for a single emitter... But with Trout's idea of the housing that wraps around the bar, we could make the whole housing smaller dia, and flare the end to fit the optic.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Yes the Vf is lower on the newer LEDs. Im measuring around 3.3v at 1A on new R2s.
> 
> Anyone notice the promising MCE optics are getting about as big as the MR11??? :skep:


Yes the lower VF`s is good news .

The wow factor is not there with the mce with the messing about I have done .
and the small is beautifull has not happened yet also .

I went out for a ride yesterday in the dark with the triple K bin stem light / the single M bin mini trout light and a quad R2 helmet light .

I was disapointed with the beams from the MCE`s 
but happy with the quantity of light .

but the quad cutter optic which I believe to be a ledil cute was the better beam .

The jury is still out

one think that stood out was the single M bin MCE could make a difference in the beam from the 3 Kbin MCE and they were all on the same optic


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

*Ledil LM1 optic*

Finishing up the last details on my MC-E helmet light right now. Running at 400ma, I think I need to turn it down a bit, getting very hot. Of course this is just still air testing. Tons of light out of this thing and what a nice color. I also report a low VF.
The ledil LM1 optic 
Where to start.......
The holder I recieved is clearly meant for the XR-E. 
It fits perfectly around the XR-E and actually snaps into place. WIth my MC-E it just sort of sits there and provides no real help in centering the optic. Maybe thats my problem, maybe the optic is just not centered. Also the opening in the bottom of the optic is not large enough to fir totally over the MC-E dome.
The beam is not nice at all.
Not very tight, looks to be way more than the +-10 advertised.
It has a donut in the center and I cant eat it. Pure rubbish. The donut is noticable and the spill is a flower pattern. Quite dissapointing. I better keep looking for a better optic or place some orders for reflectors. As a helmet light this is not going to cut it I am affraid. 
I will be trying the secondary optic made by cree for the XR-E next. Hopefully it wont suck.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

That is disapointing news is that another optic to cross of the wish list .

will we get any pics of the build and beam anytime .


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Well after a lot of swearing at it I pried the optic holder up and re-glued it and the donut hole seems to have gone away but all the other complaints still stand. I hope other MC-E optic holders are better and actually center the thing, an optic holder that dosnt self center is about as useful as a non alcaholic beer...
I turned down the drive current to 300ma since this thing is dinotte sized and got real hot in still air testing. Going out tonite for a little ride tonite and will report back on how it does. Photos coming eventually, but this is one for the ugly thread for sure.

Jay


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## joebreez (Sep 10, 2005)

I also building an MCE helmet light and I have to say the optic issue is killing everyone.
I'm putting my build on hold for a while until either the Boomerang reflectors or some other good optic hits the market. I tried some reflectors I have and they're all terrible, with the dreaded donut. I'm not an optic expert so I'm scratching a hole in my head.
I did get an email from Cutter and they are processing my Carclo 20mm optic order finally, maybe that will solve this issue...
I just don't know if the optics will be tight enough, I ordered the frosted narrow(18') and medium(24') as well as an oval beam, I'll keep you guys posted.

Eric S


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm building yet another Dinotte-style MC-E helmet-light. Was poised to 'pull the trigger' and order a couple of different Carclo 26.5mm optics to try out, but after reading Bikerjay's tail of woe I'm hesitating now. Ah, what the heck, somebody has to be an early adopter I guess.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

The Carclo 26.5 tight was not bad in my testing

but the best one so far imho is a modded ledil xre Rocket SS 
Which is going in to a mates light at the moment .



















sadly I forgot to take a photo of before mod and after and it is now glued in the light .


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

What sort of modding did you do, it has an odd looking base, did you just open up the base a little so it fits over the mc-e. Or did you have to sand down the base or cut it totally off. I would think the base would get in the way of all the wires necessary for a series wired mc-e. 
Also is the thing really 26mm in diameter. Maybe I will have to make a better housing eventually with a 26mm Inner diameter unless it could be some how made to fit my 22.2mm inner diameter housing. That ledil rocket SS lens sure does look nice.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Bikerjay 

:madman: should have taken pics but didnt really expect it to be any good :madman:

first off I dremeled the wings off so it would clear the solder pads and spaggetti of the series wired star .

that is when I took the first beam shot .

then while I was inspecting it under a magnifier I saw that about 1 mm of mce dome was visibly from the side . so then sanded the base flat so the dome was totally inside the optic .
the end result is total removal of the base to leave a standard shaped optic 
which sits over the dome of the mce nicely but then needs to be fixed in the housing 
mine will have a clear disk glued in front to hold it all together .

beamshot in the next couple of days of the finished light

Yes it is 26 mm


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Just tried the Polymer Optic 185 and it is a nice smooth beam with no clover. It is a wide pattern although I am very happy with it overall and will probably go this direction. Not happy with the Fraen narrow optic or reflector as they both have rings, although the reflector seems to have more throw. It is kind of hard to tell though with that much light right in front of you how the throw really is for me at least.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*P S A For All Those Waiting For Optics*

For all you out there waiting for orders for optics or optics and leds then the agony may be over soon

I just had a reply from Mark at Cutters Who sends his apologies for the waiting to all of you out there .

Hi Chris

Verbatim, my last email from Ledil on Monday the 3rd

''LM1 and BOOM are ready.

Also LC1 with tape, LXP with tape and CXP with tape.

I have samples of EVA and if they are OK (will measure on Tuesday), we can start molding them as well.

In addition we have TINA-XP ready

TWIDDLE-XRE will be ready in 2 weeks.

The same for CMC.''

I had expected this to all be done a month ago, so my apologies but outside our control

Cheers

Mark


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Thanks for the update. I'm waiting on two Ledil Boom reflectors and two MC-E from cutter. Will post results as soon as I get them in my hands and get thinks up and running.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I am really starting to wonder if the LM1 i received is actually an LC1. They look to be nearly identical. Maybe there is hope for the LM1 after all.

Cant wait too see the boomerang, it should fit in my housing and if they look nice Ill have to get a hold of one. 

The CMC is what we are all waiting for I think. It would be great to see a aches alot tripple with 3 MCE running at 300ma. Could easily be a 1000lumen monster. Should be way brighter and more efficient than 3 R2 at 1A. Maybe even better than 4 R2 at 700ma.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

what about an MR16 triple @ 600ma

As I have 3 mce and no proper optics I was messing about today 
and found this in the parts bin so why not give it a try .

most likley be a flood monster as it is a wide optic.










now I have to wait for the darkness to find out .


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*kahtod cree medium...*

troutie, I was playing w/ that exact optic on an mc-e. I think it's a 25 deg optic. It produces a nice wide beam w/ no artifacts I could see. I prefer a more narrow beam, so I tried the kahtod triple narrow (8 deg I think)...but the beam wasn't so good. I only had 1 mc-e at the time...so maybe w/ 3 on it would be better.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> For all you out there waiting for orders for optics or optics and leds then the agony may be over soon
> 
> I just had a reply from Mark at Cutters Who sends his apologies for the waiting to all of you out there .
> 
> ...


That's great news. Perhaps I can build my light over the x-mas break [between trips to the pub, of course].


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## il2mb (Jan 27, 2005)

I'm confused:

"The same for CMC"

Then what has Cutter been shipping? I ordered CMC Ledil optics and recieved them last week. Thought they look too similiar to the XR-E optics... And I wasn't too thrilled with their performance.

First I get the wrong LED bins and now what I suspected about the optics is probably true. My trust in Cutter to ship what he says is beginning to diminish.

I think I'll go build some R2 lights and wait till the MC-E dust settles.



troutie-mtb said:


> For all you out there waiting for orders for optics or optics and leds then the agony may be over soon
> 
> I just had a reply from Mark at Cutters Who sends his apologies for the waiting to all of you out there .
> 
> ...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bikerjay said:


> I am really starting to wonder if the LM1 i received is actually an LC1. They look to be nearly identical. Maybe there is hope for the LM1 after all.
> 
> Cant wait too see the boomerang, it should fit in my housing and if they look nice Ill have to get a hold of one.
> 
> The CMC is what we are all waiting for I think. It would be great to see a aches alot tripple with 3 MCE running at 300ma. Could easily be a 1000lumen monster. Should be way brighter and more efficient than 3 R2 at 1A. Maybe even better than 4 R2 at 700ma.


bikerjay
the LC1 will definatly not even go over the dome on a MCE


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

il2mb said:


> I'm confused:
> 
> "The same for CMC"
> 
> ...


You probable have some pre production ones 
but if you have RS or SS then post some beam shots if you can as I have beamshots 
from the xre versions with an mce to compare with.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

I've only got some Carclo 26,5mm lenses, and I think they look good.

Tried them vs an old 3 x Cree (not sure which bin, but not the newest ones..) with Ledil CRS lenses (1 x 9 deg and 2 x 15 deg I think):

3 x XR-E @1000mA









Cree MC-E @ 1000mA w/18 deg Carclo 26,5mm lens:









Really looking forward to trying the Boom reflectors. Hoping they will give a Tesla-ish beam pattern!

Needless to say - @1A the alu-pipe mounted to the MC-E got VERY hot.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

About my LM1 I received a while ago. 
The holder is for the XR-E I think, since it just sits on top of my mce and does not center the thing or snap onto the outside of the emitter. When I put the holder on to a XR-E it snaps to the out side of it and centers it self quite well. However the data sheets show photos and list measurements that look identical so maybe they are the same. Also If i take just the optic and place it over my MC-E the thing does not fit over the dome. On the the other hand the photos on the Ledil website show that the optic for the LM1 is faceted not frosted where is the LC1 is frosted. Based on this and the dimensions on the data sheet being the same I think I did get the LM1 and its just a pre-production or pre release and the will soon be released in greater numbers. It would be nice if the optic holder centered it self. I am starting to think Ledil is just selling warmed over XR-E optics and a few happen to work well.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Darkness came and with it the rain but in true light builders spirit I did not let a little rain get in the way of a beamshot .

this is the triple MR16 wide optic with 3 MCE @ 600ma

HI / LO


















And for a comparison now it is built in to a light and also because I like it 
The modded ledil rocket ss










Quite impressive and a huge ammount of light from the triple but there is a down side 
the heat build upin the block of ali was quite fast so would present a challenge for a light housing MR16 sized .

I would like to try the narrower options for this optic as a Betty beater


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

il2mb said:


> I'm confused:
> 
> "The same for CMC"
> 
> ...


I recall I had some pre production samples but had not tested them myself, if they are not good, shoot them back to us and I will replace with the production models when available. We are provided with lots of optics in pre production form and typically get rev2 in production, so my apologies


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## bbgobie (Apr 20, 2006)

WeLight said:


> I recall I had some pre production samples but had not tested them myself, if they are not good, shoot them back to us and I will replace with the production models when available. We are provided with lots of optics in pre production form and typically get rev2 in production, so my apologies


Since you seemingly have time to post online in forums. How bout someone over there replying to my emails about where my order is?

1. I dunno how it works in Aus, but you're not supposed to charge someone until you ship over here. I don't mind it a big deal if I know my stuff is going to arrive sometime soon, but I have no idea what is going on with my order with you guys. You have not responded to any of my emails, I can't track my order on your site and there has been a total lack of communication on your part.

I'm extremely disappointed ordering from you, and so far I see no reason you've earned the recommendations of so many people online. As the cheap Chinese sites DX and Kai have both responded to my questions in a timely manner, and both have managed to ship complete orders to me already (with free shipping to boot!)

So who do we have to contact over there to get a response? :madman:


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## joebreez (Sep 10, 2005)

WOW Troutie!
What battery are you running for that monster and what driver and settings?
Do you think those beamshots represent what you were actually seeing or are they overexposed?

Eric S


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

joebreez said:


> WOW Troutie!
> What battery are you running for that monster and what driver and settings?
> Do you think those beamshots represent what you were actually seeing or are they overexposed?
> 
> Eric S


I am not sure on the overexposed but when I did some beamshots a while ago 
it was suggested to use the MTBR standard settings for a camera

which are F4 @ 6 seconds iso 100 -white balance -daylight

so to keep it a level playing field these are the settings I use for all beamshots .

The monster is 3 MCE K bin wired 6series 2 parallel
maxflex @ 1200ma 
14.8 v li ion

set up on that block of ali as a test bed


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## il2mb (Jan 27, 2005)

*Mark?*



WeLight said:


> I recall I had some pre production samples but had not tested them myself, if they are not good, shoot them back to us and I will replace with the production models when available. We are provided with lots of optics in pre production form and typically get rev2 in production, so my apologies


Not worth the shipping charge to send them back. I just hope the new order I placed on 10/28 gets processed correctly. I also can't seem to get a reply to my emails. The order is 5955.

Couple of M bin, WH tint MC-E leds mounted on a series pre-configured star and CMC optics. I'd really like this order to arrive with the right stuff.

Bob


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## Peter_JS (Jan 17, 2008)

Hi Troutie,

Wow, how did the triple MCE go? That looks a monster...

I initially did not think the MCE's were much to write home about (I have a triple R2, Troutie housing which does very nicely, thankyou), but after doing some calcs on the M bins, they look very tasty. A triple MCE in a MR16 housing would run very well in theory, particularly at up to 13W. The 50mm housing should provide better cooling than my triple R2 (?) and might run ok up to 13W with a reasonable winter's breeze.

Numbers from the cree data sheets, interpolated by eye from the graphs (come pretty close as cree claim 9.8W for 790lm and 0.7A). Run time based on a 71Whr battery I'm looking at. Mmmm. nice....

Cheers
Peter

PS: I'm looking at building a new light set for my 46 mile round trip commute(!)


```
Vf	mA	W	W (x4)	% lm	lm	lm/W	x3 (W)	lm	Run time
3.20	0.35	1.12	4.48	1.00	456.00	101.79	13.44	1368.00	5.28
3.10	0.20	0.62	2.48	0.60	273.60	110.32	7.44	820.80	9.54
3.30	0.50	1.65	6.60	1.35	615.60	93.27	19.80	1846.80	3.59
3.50	0.70	2.45	9.80	1.73	788.88	80.50	29.40	2366.64	2.41
```
(A 20W set fire to the tarmac temp boost button might also be called for!)


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## Peter_JS (Jan 17, 2008)

Scrap that - just found your other thread...looks awesome...I will follow with interest.

Peter

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4615750


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but Ledil has updated their data sheets for the EVA and LM-1. No detailed diagrams, but they do have beam patterns for the EVA.
http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/DataSheet_Eva.pdf
http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/DataSheet_LM1.pdf


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks for that Pinkrobe last time I looked there were no beam pics 

so they do exist then I hope they have made the trip to cutters then round to me in the UK .

I wonder how far they will have traveled when I get mine .

Lets hope they live up to expectations .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter_JS said:


> Hi Troutie,
> 
> Wow, how did the triple MCE go? That looks a monster...
> 
> ...


Hi Peter 
You must have one of the first Troutie housings .

That is a fair old commute . have you looked into a dynohub setup , seems to be the way to go for commuting 
the triple MCE may be a tad bright for the tarmac.

Cheers Trout


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## Peter_JS (Jan 17, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hi Peter
> You must have one of the first Troutie housings .
> 
> That is a fair old commute . have you looked into a dynohub setup , seems to be the way to go for commuting
> ...


Hi Troutie,

Yep, commute takes me between 1hr26 to 1hr 28 each way, its amazing how when you think you're cycling much harder so little difference is made to the cycle time. I'm using my full suss MTB (!!!) with 110psi road slicks, which make an enormous difference, although tis pretty bumpy/slippery on a rough gravel section I use. I'm eyeing up a proper road bike which will allow me to run my MTB for what its designed for this winter.

High Lumens for the road are a definite must IMO, particulary on dark country lanes, with puddles and on coming cars when you doing >= 20mph. I looked at the dynohub, it's a good idea, but I reckon I'd still rather carry a LION battery and run 10W-15W worth of LEDs. Maybe a cutter R2 quad would be fine, but I also like the idea of oval optics and MCE's too....so I'm watching your current progress with great interest!

Here's a link to my current trout light build (which is still running well), so it may well be a early ver of yours.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=379315

Cheers
Peter


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

In true Troutie impatience style I could not wait for the narrow triple optic to come from Cutters . 
so I thought why not see if I can lathe the difusing bobbles off the front of the medium optic 
it was a bit delicate to nip in the chuck but I managed and was quite suprised on how good it came out .
after a few very light passes they were gone








.

then into the light and off to the bit of test trail I have been using .

first up the shot from the un modded optic 
followed by the modded

I do think there should be a revised camera setting for the new multi chip leds 
any camera experts on here to advise please .


















































It does seem to have tightened the beam up a tad and if I had aimed it up the trail a bit more the hotspot would have lit up the trees in the far distance .

next pics are stepping down the levels on the maxflex in multimode

Now looking at the shots 
look at the first pic which is unmodded @ full power.

and look at pics 3 and 4 which are 1 and 2 steps down in power on the Maxflex


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## Peter_JS (Jan 17, 2008)

Hi Troutie,

Very nice!
Is that a stock MR11 XRE optic? What's "full power" - 700mA?

Cheers
Peter


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter_JS said:


> Hi Troutie,
> 
> Very nice!
> Is that a stock MR11 XRE optic? What's "full power" - 700mA?
> ...


Hi Peter it is a stock Kahtod MR16 triple optic for the XRE .

sadly no full power is 600ma , untill the HipFlex comes out


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> I do think there should be a revised camera setting for the new multi chip leds


A bit of trial and error would be your best bet Troutie. I would probably start by changing one stop in aperture, ie going from f4 to f5.6 as it will effectively halve the amount of light hitting the sensor. That should: 
a) prevent blowing the highlights in the beam hotspot. 
b) Give a slightly wider depth of field which will make focus points less critical when trying to focus in the dark.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers salty 
what about the time , 6 seconds my camera s next setting is 4.5 secs 
what effect would that have .

The goal is to have the shot look like what you see when riding 

it would seem that the camera setting can make a poor light look good 

do Lupine use a different setting than the MTBR ones


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Time is the other possibility, going from 6 to 4/4.5 seconds would yield a noticeable reduction in overall "brightness".

I found that i had NFI where i was focussing with my weak little lights and was relying on depth of field to ensure that something was in focus.

I did see reference to a different set of exposures in a thread here just the other day but I have no idea where it was.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

So which gives the most truthfull result 

smaller aperture or less time .

what settings did you use for the Salty sock pics :lol:
still makes me laugh socks on sticks in the middle of the night :lol:


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Troutie, I think Salty's right about a bit of trial-and-error being needed, since you're the one pushing the envelope here  

For example, I'd first try stopping down from f4 -> f5.6, which exactly halves the amount of light reaching the sensor. My gut-feeling is that'll probably give a nicely exposed beamshot.

But failing that, try reducing the shutter-speed from 6sec -> 4.5sec instead. But bear in mind that 4.5s in not one of the 'standard' slow shutter-speeds available on most cameras ie. 1, 2 & 4seconds... Anyway, 4.5sec @f4 will reduce the light reaching the sensor by 33% (which is stiil probably a bit overexposed). Pls let us know what you discover.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

I thought your idea of using the MTBR settings was a good one and mirrored that for the socks on sticks. (as closely as possible, Max aperture i could get on the crap lens was 4.5). 

If you were to drop the exposure by half, increase the aperture by a stop, or drop the ISO by half... the results would be all but indistinguishable - less light hitting the sensor and a "darker" looking pic. 

In all honesty, the only way you will be able to replicate what you are seeing is to take a couple with varied exposures and see what best replicates what you are seeing. 

I first said i would play with aperture first but it is more difficult to visualize what a change in aperture means to your overall exposure, so start by taking multiple pics at 3,4,5 secs and review them and see what you like.


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

There is one small upside with faster shutter-speeds; a shorter shutter-speed will help minimize the risk of blur due to camera-shake. Of course, you'll still need a tripod, but the beamshots will tend to be sharper at the faster shutter-speed. Plus in some recent beamshots I saw plenty of blur due to the vegetation swaying wildly in the strong breeze, so that effect would be minimized as well.

One last tip, for tripod pics you ideally want a remote shutter-release, otherwise pressing the shutter will cause the whole camera+tripod to shake (only a bit, but that's enough). But here's a good trick in case you don't have a fancy remote shutter-release:
* Just set the camera's inbuilt self-timer (I like 2-seconds delay). In this way, pressing the shutter doesn't shake the camera 'cos the shutter doesn't fire until 2 seconds later :thumbsup:


----------



## bbgobie (Apr 20, 2006)

Since your using a P&S start with playing with either the exposure time, or the aperture until you get something that looks correct in exposure.

The more light you have, either the shorter your exposure should be, or the smaller your aperture should be (Bigger numbers since its a fraction).


----------



## Peter_JS (Jan 17, 2008)

As well as aperture and exposure time, Salty did mention ISO (gain or amplification of the electrical signal from your camera's sensor). This is important - you need to choose a setting for this. Some camera's will use an auto ISO setting, and this will make comparisons very hard....The more gain (higher ISO value) the brighter the picture will be until it gets noisy (speckles). Expensive cameras like full frame SLRs will be able to go up ISO 12000 or more with out the speckle effects (thus allowing faster shutter speed and therefore less motion blur), but typical compacts will struggle with more than ISO 800. Thus I suggest IS0 100, 200 or 400, but you will need to try it on your camera.

Cheers,
Peter


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

Just got a nice little envelope of the Ledil Boom reflectors in the mail  
Haven't fired them up yet, but it seems like they need a little trimming when I'm gonna mount them on my "spaghetti" MC-E from Cutter...

Report and pics to follow as soon as I've lit them up.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

langen said:


> Just got a nice little envelope of the Ledil Boom reflectors in the mail
> Haven't fired them up yet, but it seems like they need a little trimming when I'm gonna mount them on my "spaghetti" MC-E from Cutter...
> 
> Report and pics to follow as soon as I've lit them up.


:arf: Come on man quickly

Are these from Cutters .


----------



## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

11 minutes Troutie. Possibly being a little impatient ... :nono:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

glowinthedark said:


> 11 minutes Troutie. Possibly being a little impatient ... :nono:


 sorry that is me excitable and highly strung 
I just got excited that someone had the long awaited boom reflector  sorry I wont do it again .


----------



## Dream Plus (Feb 12, 2004)

Take your time. It's OK, we know you'll pull through.

As long as the pics are good ;-)


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Good to hear the Boom reflectors are shipping! I'll be keeping an eye on the mailbox!


----------



## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

langen said:


> Just got a nice little envelope of the Ledil Boom reflectors in the mail
> Haven't fired them up yet, but it seems like they need a little trimming when I'm gonna mount them on my "spaghetti" MC-E from Cutter...
> 
> Report and pics to follow as soon as I've lit them up.


Wonder if BR uses them in their new dual MCE light (available now), its reflector based:

http://www.brlights.com/


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> :arf: Come on man quickly
> 
> Are these from Cutters .


Hehe. Not from Cutter - ordered directly from Ledil. I'll try to post up som pics when I get home from work this evening.

Patience is a virtue


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

langen said:


> Hehe. Not from Cutter - ordered directly from Ledil. I'll try to post up som pics when I get home from work this evening.
> 
> Patience is a virtue


After some very preliminary backyard testing with the narrow Boom reflector, I think I can say WOW. Without having seen a Tesla in real life, I think I can say that this is THE Tesla-killer.
Very nice hotspot with LOTS of spill. A whole different beam-pattern than any lens I've tried. I guess that's the thing with reflectors - you can get both hotspot AND spill. With one if these on the helmet and one on the bars I'll be more than happy.

Only thing is I didn't take any beamshots. This is why:









(Shown with Carclo 26,5mm lens)

Since I only have 2 arms, I can't manage to hold the camera, battery and test-rig at the same time. But pics will come! A guy I know has promised to come by with his 2009 Wilma, and I think I should be able to get hold of a L&M ARC to compare with also.

I had to file off a little of the base to make room for all 8 solder-points(I removed the double-sided tape that sat underneath prior to taking the pic):








I think that this filing is needed even if you have a 4s star and only 2 solder points.

Test-setup:









To sum it up:
I think Ledil has laid a golden egg here :thumbsup:

As a side-note - this is the MC-E I recieved from DX:









= sh!tty quality control (and soldering for that matter)!!


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

I know, I know....


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Oh Baby! That is one nice looking reflector. I can't wait to see the beam shots!

bummer about the emmitter though...


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## joebreez (Sep 10, 2005)

langen said:


> Hehe. Not from Cutter - ordered directly from Ledil. I'll try to post up som pics when I get home from work this evening.
> 
> Patience is a virtue


How did you order direct from Ledil?
I thought we all had to go through the typical BS of shipping half way around the world-only to ship it back.
Seriously though, Ledil will process orders direct or is there a minimum order?

Eric S


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

[QUOTE/]Mark @ cutter:
Ours have been shipped from Ledil 2 days ago and should be here by Monday
Cheers
Mark[/QUOTE]

Just got this from mark at cutter regarding the Boom reflectors


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Just got this from mark at cutter regarding the Boom reflectors


Feck me what the hell have Ledil been playing at these things should have 
been on the shelves for when the MCE hit the shelves .

they will have had samples for R&D way before then .

so it will be december when I get mine :madman:

I hope they live up to expectations .
and all this time has been spent getting perfection.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

joebreez said:


> How did you order direct from Ledil?
> I thought we all had to go through the typical BS of shipping half way around the world-only to ship it back.
> Seriously though, Ledil will process orders direct or is there a minimum order?
> 
> Eric S


I just used sales[at]ledil[dot]com found here
http://www.ledil.fi/index.php?page=contact

I ordered 6(!) pcs for testing purposes. They were 0,89 Euro + 22% VAT a piece.Shipping from Finland to Norway was 15 Euros + 22% VAT. Quite steep shipping for 6 pcs in other words..
My impression is that they would handle small orders, but if there suddenly comes in 100's of orders from DIY'ers things might change.
But I guess if you US guys arrange a group buy, it'll be a whole different story.

Beam-pattern:
compared to a 3 x XR-E with 2 x 15 degree and 1 x 9 degree Ledil square lens @1A (my regular bar-light), the MC-E/Boom @1A blew the old light out of the water. Hotspot was a little brighter, but the spill was in another ballpark.

This is a no-brainer. :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:arf: we have been very patient waiting 

where are the beamshots


----------



## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

langen said:


> As a side-note - this is the MC-E I recieved from DX:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've got one from DX soldered exactly like this. It's allready on its way back to Hong Kong...

BTW, Langen, which FWHM angle is the reflector you tested?


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

ortelius said:


> BTW, Langen, which FWHM angle is the reflector you tested?


It's the BOOM-MC-S
Product code: 10569

..and what you asked for: 10 degrees. But that does NOT include the spill!

As you can see on page 2 here
http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/DataSheet_Boom_mc.pdf
the spill light is approx 35-40 degrees!


----------



## kgardnez (Jan 31, 2004)

How does one order directly from Ledil?


----------



## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

US guys Digikey has the Ledil line listed as shipping on Dec 4th. I put in a small order of both the boomerang and LM1 just to see when I get mine.


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## kgardnez (Jan 31, 2004)

I'm thinking about putting in my order to Digikey for narrow and medium, any reason to even consider the wide?


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

kgardnez said:


> How does one order directly from Ledil?


...



langen said:


> I just used sales[at]ledil[dot]com found here
> http://www.ledil.fi/index.php?page=contact


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

*Polymer optics ?*

It seems that if the 6deg becomes a 10deg with the MC-E maybe the concentrator they make will be usable with the MC-E. The concentrator is a polymer optic for fiber optic light insertion with with the XR-E. Its a super narrow beam, like 3 or 4 deg. I may eventually try this out. This could be a nice narrow spot option for the MC-E.

Still no sign of the EVA? wow ledil is slow.
I guess the 5 up 35.5mm XP-E and the 10mm round single XP-E smooth spot wont be available until next year at this rate, and by then there will certainly be a new led available....

Any one in the US have an extra boomerang SS reflector they want to sell me? 
Shipping from cutter or digikey is a lot since I really just need 1 boomerang to replace the lame LM1.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

*LM1 from cutter not the right part #*

Just checked out the Ledil stock at digikey. The LM1 from digikey lists 4 parts. The data sheet shows photos of 4 optics but until now we couldn't get the frosted one shown in the data sheet. Digikey says the LM1 comes in 4 flavors, real spot, Diffuser, medium and rectangle. The diffuser is the 20deg part I got from cutter that is so disappointing. Digikey and the Ledil data sheet dont list a beam angle for the real spot. Guess I will have to get one and play around with it.


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## more10 (Oct 28, 2008)

```

```
Shipping from cutter or digikey is a lot since I really just need 1 boomerang to replace the lame LM1.

why is the LM1 lame?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

wow all these people with MCEs and no good optics 

it would seem and this is from another party that Ledil did a production run of optics but they were not good so this is where the delay has come from redoing or even redisigning the optics . 
so this may be a good thing rather than them putting out a design that was bad.
unfortunatly buying an optic when all we have seen is a white wall shot and some mumbo jumbo that only a few will understand is not ideal .

maybe we should have been more aware about the problems these multi emitter devices have from the P7 .

as you know I have tried a few options and have been a tad underwhelmed but have on order like some on here the ledil options I am not antisipating any great nirvana just hoping for something better than I have tried .

I wonder what Polymer optics have come up with and are they on the shelves yet .


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Here we go!

Then I've had myself a little walk outdoors.

Note to self: It's hard to take decent pictures without a tripod/etc. Especially picture nr 2 is a *tiny *bit blutty.

Lights used: 
- 1 x Cree MC-E + Ledil Boom reflector, 10 degrees @1A
- 3 x Cree XR-E (not the latest bin) + 2 x 15 degrees og 1 x 9 degrees Ledil square [email protected] This is the light I've happily used as a bar-light for the last 2 seasons.

In the backyard:
3 x XR-E:









MC-E:








(Blurry - I know..)

In a park nearby (pictures taken a little from the side)
3 x XR-E - 2 pics where I held the light a bit different:



















MC-E:










Especially the last picture shows how defined the beam is. IMO this is a good thing. I'm not sure whether the pics show the good combo of hotspot and huge spill, but it's there. Trust me. :thumbsup:

It must be taken into account that the MC-E light has 33% more light than the XR-E.

All pics taken with F = 2,8, ISO = 200 @ 1 second. 
Since I used an Ixus with not-so-good wide angle, it was actually a bit hard to really show how wide the MC-E beam is.

Conclusion: I'm sold!

Next step: Build a housing for this sucka :thumbsup:


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## frazzle (Nov 26, 2005)

*uk group buy from ledil direct?*

Is any one in the uk going to buy some Boom reflectors direct from ledil as i would be interested in buying 2 10 degrees ones?

and has any one heard when cutters are going to get them?


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## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

I can't say I see a hotspot, but hopefully there really is one! My 3x R2 bin with 1 wide (15), one smooth spot (7) and one real spot (6), is just spotty enough. Actually a pretty good balance between spill and spot, though more punch wouldn't hurt. I'm afraid the MCE may still not be good as a helmet light. Probably a great bar light though!


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Digikey should have the -RS version of the LM1 soon and despite the far less than good results from my LM1-D part I still want to try it. And the boomerang as well. Some time next week or maybe tomorrow i will finally get around to posting pics of my little MC-E helmet light and maybe some crappy beam shots too.. 
There has to be some way other than a 40mm reflector to get a nice spot out of this thing...


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## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

bikerjay said:


> Digikey should have the -RS version of the LM1 soon and despite the far less than good results from my LM1-D part I still want to try it. And the boomerang as well. Some time next week or maybe tomorrow i will finally get around to posting pics of my little MC-E helmet light and maybe some crappy beam shots too..
> There has to be some way other than a 40mm reflector to get a nice spot out of this thing...


I can't wait to see the pics!
I agree... there has got to be a way! ..and my design counts on it, so it has to happen!


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## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

langen, use trees. Press the camera against a tree for a long exposure shot. The point of focus for both lights should be the same for a fair comparison. Just from the blurry shots alone, the Boomerang looks to be a fantastic option. I am a big fan of the square Ledils but this looks like an excellent replacement.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Lumbee1 said:


> langen, use trees. Press the camera against a tree for a long exposure shot. The point of focus for both lights should be the same for a fair comparison. Just from the blurry shots alone, the Boomerang looks to be a fantastic option. I am a big fan of the square Ledils but this looks like an excellent replacement.


Or sit it on top of a park bench or a fence or something sturdy. Set the automatic timer so that the camera is nice and still when the exposure happens. That way you don't wobble the camera when you press the button. Saves having to track down a tripod


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Lumbee1 said:


> langen, use trees. Press the camera against a tree for a long exposure shot. The point of focus for both lights should be the same for a fair comparison. Just from the blurry shots alone, the Boomerang looks to be a fantastic option. I am a big fan of the square Ledils but this looks like an excellent replacement.


Or sit it on top of a park bench or a fence or something sturdy. Set the automatic timer so that the camera is nice and still when the exposure happens. That way you don't wobble the camera when you press the button. Saves having to track down a tripod


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## mjzraz (Oct 8, 2005)

langen said:


> As a side-note - this is the MC-E I recieved from DX:
> = sh!tty quality control (and soldering for that matter)!!


Is the DX MC-E supposed to be soldered so that you can wire them any way you want? As in each wire on the emitter is connected directly to the solder pads. I see that in the picture the solder on the 3 wires are touching.

Are the MC-E's from cutter that are wired 2P2S just done with the spaghetti of red wires like I saw in the pic in this thread? Isn't there a way to do that within the pcb the emitter is attached to? The red wires seem like a mess...


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

mjzraz said:


> Is the DX MC-E supposed to be soldered so that you can wire them any way you want? As in each wire on the emitter is connected directly to the solder pads. I see that in the picture the solder on the 3 wires are touching.


No, it's not. All 4 legs are supposed to be connected together, not just 3...



mjzraz said:


> Are the MC-E's from cutter that are wired 2P2S just done with the spaghetti of red wires like I saw in the pic in this thread? Isn't there a way to do that within the pcb the emitter is attached to? The red wires seem like a mess...


When I ordered I specifically asked for a 4S setup, but I didn't think that the configuration would be done with wires. It shouldn't be THAT difficult to get hold of a 4S star-board??


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Lumbee1 said:


> langen, use trees. Press the camera against a tree for a long exposure shot. The point of focus for both lights should be the same for a fair comparison. Just from the blurry shots alone, the Boomerang looks to be a fantastic option. I am a big fan of the square Ledils but this looks like an excellent replacement.


I know.. The pics does not do the Boom justice. Maybe I'll get time tomorrow night to take some better pics.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

UFO landing in the backyard!

The lights are the same as before. They are about 3m from the bushes. Pics are F = 2,8 and 0,8 seconds.

3 x XR-E:









MC-E w/narrow Boom:









Hopefully now you can see both the hotspot and the crazy spill.

Convinced? I am :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup: Thanks for that Langen 
That is looking encouraging on the beam with the centre being nicely defined .
and Cutters say they will be shipping back orders this week :thumbsup:


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

langen said:


> UFO landing in the backyard! ....


Excellent work there Langen! A very impressive beam indeeed.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have copied these from the datasheets as a comparison with Langens pics 
BOOM 









EVA


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

The hotspot is clearly more visible in the new pics. Nice work :thumbsup: 

Looks like it is the leader for MCE optics at the present.


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## kgardnez (Jan 31, 2004)

Can you tell more about the setups? What mA is each running?

Great shots, I'm very shocked how wide the MCE beam is even with the narrow optic.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

kgardnez said:


> Can you tell more about the setups? What mA is each running?
> 
> Great shots, I'm very shocked how wide the MCE beam is even with the narrow optic.


Same as with the first pics:

Lights used: 
- 1 x Cree MC-E + Ledil Boom reflector, 10 degrees @1A
- 3 x Cree XR-E (not the latest bin) + 2 x 15 degrees and 1 x 9 degrees Ledil square [email protected] This is the light I've happily used as a bar-light for the last 2 seasons.


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## kgardnez (Jan 31, 2004)

langen said:


> Same as with the first pics:
> Lights used:
> - 1 x Cree MC-E + Ledil Boom reflector, 10 degrees @1A
> - 3 x Cree XR-E (not the latest bin) + 2 x 15 degrees and 1 x 9 degrees Ledil square [email protected] This is the light I've happily used as a bar-light for the last 2 seasons.


My apologies for being dense, the MC-E @ 1A, is this 250mA per facet or 1A per facet?


----------



## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

Looking good!

I'm still a bit skeptical that the BOOM will have enough of a spot in comparison to the spill. I might go from a triple R2 (CRS: 1x RS, 1x SS, 1x M) to a dual MCE (2x BOOM SS?) and I want more light in general, but I definitely would appreciate more spot/throw. I don't want to just flood the immediate area with light and then actually make it harder to see further ahead... This would be for a helmet light, mind you; I'm sure the BOOM reflectors would be absolutely awesome on the bars.

I'd be interested to see what different combos could look like... a SS or M BOOM, and an asperical (unfocused) optic... Might still look funny as I suspect the aspherical would leave quite a defined "circle"/hotspot.

I'm excited to see more beamshots and see how the other optics turn out! And comparisons like this one and others are always a huge help.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

kgardnez said:


> My apologies for being dense, the MC-E @ 1A, is this 250mA per facet or 1A per facet?


1A through all 4 dies. Above the max rating in other words. It gets hot!


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

langen said:


> 1A through all 4 dies. Above the max rating in other words. It gets hot!


Nice work :thumbsup: ... what are you driving it with?


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Nice work :thumbsup: ... what are you driving it with?


1000mA Buckpuck. 
In theory the Buckpuck will go out of regulation somewhere in the discharge curve, but I haven't come to this point yet.

Btw - what happens when the Buckpuck or bFlex goes out of regulation due to too low battery voltage?


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

langen said:


> 1000mA Buckpuck.
> In theory the Buckpuck will go out of regulation somewhere in the discharge curve, but I haven't come to this point yet.
> 
> Btw - what happens when the Buckpuck or bFlex goes out of regulation due to too low battery voltage?


I thought the light just dimmed.... but i might be wrong. I was planning a 700ma buckpuck with a 14.4v battery so i will probably face the same problem.

From memory of Trouts MCE runtime test, his Low voltage protection kicked in before the light noticeably dimmed...


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> I thought the light just dimmed.... but i might be wrong. I was planning a 700ma buckpuck with a 14.4v battery so i will probably face the same problem.


Yes
They go into "direct drive" which means they supply as much power as they can. You notice on the bflex because you lose the upper drive levels one at a time.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

znomit said:


> Yes
> They go into "direct drive" which means they supply as much power as they can. You notice on the bflex because you lose the upper drive levels one at a time.


This is not harmful for the battery or driver, right?


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

langen said:


> This is not harmful for the battery or driver, right?


Not in itself. In general batteries don't like to be fully discharged hence the battery voltage warnings on the bflex.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

*and adding to the collection*

I had been reliably informed that the Cree XRE optic XLSL-7090 would sit nicely over an MC-E (apologise but I have forgotten who to credit for this but thanks).

As they were about the perfect external diameter and overall height for what I was looking for I used them in my MCE build. The pics below are solely to illustrate the beam patterns and have been underexposed.









I am surprised at just how noticeable the "cross-hairs" are in the multi optic pic. I'll do a few trail tests and if it is noticeable I'll play with some very fine wet & dry paper to "frost" the lense and see how that goes.

The 25* appears to have a significantly lower light output in the pics. In reality it is there but because of the underexposure the camera hasn't picked up the amount of spill.

As a side note for anyone that cares to calculate beam angles, the light in all shots was set up 2m away from the wall and the width of the beam in the single 8* pic is 900mm from side to side.

Oh yeah, the optics do sit down over the LED "dome" perfectly.


----------



## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

900mm at 2m gives about 25.5 degrees angle.


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

emu26 said:


> I am surprised at just how noticeable the "cross-hairs" are in the multi optic pic. I'll do a few trail tests and if it is noticeable I'll play with some very fine wet & dry paper to "frost" the lense and see how that goes.


I could also clearly see the 4 dies in the Carclo (non-frosted) narrow 26,5mm lens. With the medium frosted, however, I could not make out the 4 dies from another.

I think this is a limitation wrt narrow lenses for multi-die emitters. To get a really narrow beam, it seems like you need a clear optic, but then the individual dies are visible...


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I still think the Polymer Optics range holds great potential in a package only 15mm across.

The beam shots on their website would indicate there is little to no evidence of donuts or cross hairs. This with a claimed efficiency of >85%









Anyone out there tried one of these yet?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I just got my Ledil Rocket 3 ss optic to replace the Kathod triple I trashed with solvent 
and have done a beam shot . 
it is certainly as good and does have a hot spot so I will not know untill it first ride .

I changed the camera setting to 4 seconds @ f4 .


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> I just got my Ledil Rocket 3 ss optic to replace the Kathod triple I trashed with solvent
> and have done a beam shot .
> it is certainly as good and does have a hot spot so I will not know untill it first ride .


Looks promising. I can see what you mean about the chilly weather.


----------



## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Troutie... the triple rocket lens looks nice. Anxious to hear how the ride test goes.

FYI... for those who have ordered, and have been waiting for, Boomerang reflectors from Cutter, I got an email from them today notifying me that my order with 2 MC-E (M-bin) and 2 Boomerang reflectors shipped today. Yeah!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

achesalot said:


> Troutie... the triple rocket lens looks nice. Anxious to hear how the ride test goes.
> 
> FYI... for those who have ordered, and have been waiting for, Boomerang reflectors from Cutter, I got an email from them today notifying me that my order with 2 MC-E (M-bin) and 2 Boomerang reflectors shipped today. Yeah!


The test ride could be awhile as the weather is pretty rubbish at the moment .

Could be a few boom pics soon as it seems they are shipping now I just had the same message from cutters .

It Also seems like the EVA has had problems .

It is odd we can split an atom but cant focus a multichip led .


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Could be a few boom pics soon as it seems they are shipping now I just had the same message from cutters .
> 
> .


Still waiting on mine to ship


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Me too.
6 MCE
3 Boom
2 LM-1
2 Maxflex
1 EVA
...and a partridge in a pear tree...

Waiting is the hardest part.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Has anyone tried any of these optic ranges yet?

http://www.polymer-optics.co.uk/products LED optics cree.html

C'mon Troutie, its your local company can't you knock on the door and ask for some samples, show 'em some of your work, you're bound to get something.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have wanted to try there stuff and have emailed them about supply 
they gave me this co
http://www.anglia.com/

7 emails later with no reply 
and went through the process of opening an account 
still zilch.

reported them to Polymer-optics and explained

reply from them saying it was not good

They then said try this co 
http://www.plusopto.co.uk/

I have not yet tried them or had a good browse round their site

I was hoping someone else would have done a build and reported on them .

I wanted to put 6 into a maglight head 
with Georges HipFlex

I have the mag head ready and anodised just waiting , waiting , waiting 
something I have now learnt to do .

Maybe If I bought a full tray of the things then flog them as a group buy 
But would like to see a beam shot from one first


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Has anyone tried any of these optic ranges yet?
> 
> http://www.polymer-optics.co.uk/products LED optics cree.html
> 
> C'mon Troutie, its your local company can't you knock on the door and ask for some samples, show 'em some of your work, you're bound to get something.


Yeah I've got one 10deg. Its nice and smooth but too wide for my taste.

The 30mm 5deg reflectors might be the business.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

znomit said:


> Yeah I've got one 10deg. Its nice and smooth but too wide for my taste.
> 
> The 30mm 5deg reflectors might be the business.


Any chance you can set your light up 2m from a wall, take a pic of the beam and measure from side to side to give us an idea.

Also do you have the MC-E version or the XP-E version or are they one and the same?


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

This is the MC-E version wired like:








To give a hotter spot at the top.

Beam setup geometry is what Troutie came up with when he wasn't allowed out of the house.
I forget exactly what it was.









I'll probably do a dyno light with this to try out some standlight ideas.


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Wow I am all but sold on the XP-E and XR-E being superior to the MC-E for spot use. Too bad I already drank the cool aid and built a MC-E helmet light. Not totally bagging on the MC-E thought, a Mr16 triple MC-E on the bars ought to be unbeatable. That polymer optic looks to finally be one that does the job of making a true tight spot but its huge. The data sheet shows it needing a 37mm diameter with lots of filing. A 4 up XR-E mr11 is smaller. So is the new and as of yet unproduced Ledil xp-e penta mr-11. Seems like I should try the regular compact polymer optic as a replacement for my LM1, should be a little tighter at least.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Check this one out

This is an optic out of a cheap led torch I think it is a Q something but the power is not an issue .


















What it does highlight is the problem with optics for the MCE .

Camera set to underexpose to show the beam 1/10 sec @ f8

the ceiling is 2.2 mtres from the light in each shot 
the tape is 1 metre eachway .

first shot is the torch which is a cracking throwing beam with not much spill.










next is the same optic sat on an MCE @ low on a bflex.










same on hi to show the spill too










It just goes to show what a flood monster these multichip leds are .


----------



## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

*A glass cover?*

So I'm pretty sold on the BOOM-SS reflectors. And they are super cheap at digikey.com

But, what should I use for a cover to keep dust etc out? Any body find a good source something high performance like treated glass? (to minimize back reflection)

Any at digikey.com? ..or another 'non-cutter' source.

Much appreciated, Thanks!!


----------



## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

sdnative said:


> So I'm pretty sold on the BOOM-SS reflectors. And they are super cheap at digikey.com
> 
> But, what should I use for a cover to keep dust etc out? Any body find a good source something high performance like treated glass? (to minimize back reflection)
> 
> ...


UCL lens. Cut it down and make a holder for it to cover the Boom.

http://www.lighthound.com/521mm-UCL-Lens-for-Mag-C-D-Size-Flashlights_p_6-44.html


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

Nice ..mucho $ though. Thanks for the link!

I actually realized I know a local plastics house that specializes in acrylic and other plastics. I'm pretty sure they would have an anti-reflective acrylic plastic there, and sell by the SQ foot. Can hole saw me a bunch of replacements too!

Thxs


----------



## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

UCL lens have a much higher transparency that typical acrylic, lexan, or other "clear" plastics. Yes expensive but worth it on a good DIY build.

From the link:
_98% light transmission, with Anti-Reflective coating, this is the highest performance lens you can buy for your Mag® C and D size flashlight_


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

lol ...one of those, 'you get what you pay for' deals is it! Ya you're, probably right, but I'm super budget. Squeeking out the door at $50 for my MCE build, trying to keep it under $50 for my next DIY project post. Thanks


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Finland / Australia / England*

The postie just delivered 3 globe trotting Boom reflectors










Now to wait for the Darkness

Will it be  or :cryin:


----------



## Hambonio (Jul 16, 2008)

sdnative said:


> So I'm pretty sold on the BOOM-SS reflectors. And they are super cheap at digikey.com
> 
> But, what should I use for a cover to keep dust etc out? Any body find a good source something high performance like treated glass? (to minimize back reflection)
> 
> ...


Have you tried a welding cover plate? It is a clear lens that covers the dark, glass lense.


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Dx has some cheap glass lens, just flat glass and no coating. Fancy coated and even sapphire treated lens can be found here - 
http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/index.php?cPath=48_50_66 
My light is housed in a 22.2mm internal diameter part. I guess I could file/dremel out the end to fit the 22.5mm.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Early lndications are for a*

 I think but it is a bit early yet to get excited .

I thought before I put all three in the triple it would be good to get the ceiling shot for a comparison .

2.2 metres to the cross which is 1 metre each way .

Before you get all spendy and order booms this is the quad cute narrow optic and 4 Q5s
as this seems to be the best spot out there.










this one is the Rocket ss XRE optic on a MCE and if I could fit 3 in the mag head then this would be my choice










This is the Boom spot on an MCE










So based on these results I have taken the plunge and installed them in the triple .










It is a bit messy with the blobs of silicon to hold them in place but I was at a loss for a way to fix them and this seemed ok

I had to stop the camera down a fair bit for this shot but on the ceiling it is looking good 
hopefully it will be the same on the trail .










trail shots will be to follow when the silicon has set


----------



## big-ted (Oct 16, 2005)

Anyone thought of trying microscope cover slips as glass covers? Kind of thin, but perfect optical clarity and super cheap for a box of 50 or so...


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have used the lenses out of safety goggles for some of mine


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Is the boom corona as wide as it looks on the pictures? 
When looking at your beamshot I would estimate the spot to 55cm and the corona to 90cm.
Does the numbers sound reasonable to you, from what it looks like in real world?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

gillestugan said:


> Is the boom corona as wide as it looks on the pictures?
> When looking at your beamshot I would estimate the spot to 55cm and the corona to 90cm.
> Does the numbers sound reasonable to you, from what it looks like in real world?


Yes that seems fair though there is a larger corona or spill that goes out of the picture also .

I just pointed the triple out the window and am very pleased with what I saw .
It is the best yet and should be awesome on the trail .

Question for the maths experts .

I am running the 3 MCE at 600ma and they are speced at 700ma 
How much light does this equate to and would it be worth the effort of installing one of georges new HipFlexs when available


----------



## frazzle (Nov 26, 2005)

*spreadsheet on http://bikeled.org/*

there is a spread sheet on http://bikeled.org/ the link is in the paragraph below the picture of the mce and boom.
or http://bikeled.org/MC-Ex2.xls

that should help abit

did you get boom's posted by airmail from cutters?


----------



## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

It looks really smooth with lots of spill. The hotspot is about 14 degrees and the corona about 23 based on the above numbers. Spill looks huge. Probably because the reflector is so shallow.

Going from 600 to 700 will be roughly equivalent to adding a XR-E R2 at 1A. I myself wouldn't pay the extra (expensive) $ for only this.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

gillestugan said:


> It looks really smooth with lots of spill. The hotspot is about 14 degrees and the corona about 23 based on the above numbers. Spill looks huge. Probably because the reflector is so shallow.
> 
> Going from 600 to 700 will be roughly equivalent to adding a XR-E R2 at 1A. I myself wouldn't pay the extra (expensive) $ for only this.


You are of course right what is an extra 240 lumens when I have nearly 2000 already .
then there is the heat and battery runtime .

Just shining it around my house I am very happy with the results and cant wait to get out on a trail with it . It seems to have everything I wanted a nice punch down the middle with a good wide spill . I have noticed there is a lot of heat radiated out of the front it seems more than a solid optic .

I think a lot of the spill is coming from light that is missing the reflector and there is a very definate edge to the spill

At the moment it is a huge


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*boom vs rocket*

I picked up a bunch of Rocket SS lenses hoping to use them for the MC-E...but not sure I dig the 4 leaf clover beam. In you pic, the boom reflector looks even, but less intense. Is it more of a flood?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> I picked up a bunch of Rocket SS lenses hoping to use them for the MC-E...but not sure I dig the 4 leaf clover beam. In you pic, the boom reflector looks even, but less intense. Is it more of a flood?


On the trail the clover leaf is not noticed and if you have it diamond it works well 
if you were using multple then you can cancel the clover leaf .
there is not much spill from the rocket ss

there is a fair amount of spill with the boom but it does seem to do a good job I was very sceptical it was going to deliver and am happy it has . it is probably the best for a 20mm optic .


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Now to wait for the Darkness


Here you go









Now how about some beamshots?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:lol::lol:

Excelent that Znomit 
, I have finished playing with the Darkness now and she is off round to Saltys later .


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> :lol::lol:
> 
> Excelent that Znomit
> , I have finished playing with the Darkness now and she is off round to Saltys later .


Thanks trout... mighty nice of you to let me borrow it for a bit


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Thanks trout... mighty nice of you to let me borrow it for a bit


I hope you are going to be ready for Her Salty :ihih:


----------



## Abailey (Dec 8, 2008)

Have you got any new photos with the 3xboom reflectors?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Abailey said:


> Have you got any new photos with the 3xboom reflectors?


Welcome Abailey to the madhouse .

Yes the beamshots are Here


----------



## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Yes that seems fair though there is a larger corona or spill that goes out of the picture also .
> 
> I just pointed the triple out the window and am very pleased with what I saw .
> It is the best yet and should be awesome on the trail .
> ...


Hi Chris
Check the intensity graph on the Cree datasheet, you will find 600ma is approx 1.55x the 350ma rating


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Welcome Abailey to the madhouse .
> 
> Yes the beamshots are Here


No, no, not those beam shots. We want trail beam shots:nono:

And while you're at it can you pull up a collection of the next best optics and put them all side by side with the boom to make it easier for us to compare without having to scroll? (I did mine on photoshop, only took a couple of miuntes) C'mon Chris what else do you have to do, watch reality TV?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

WeLight said:


> Hi Chris
> Check the intensity graph on the Cree datasheet, you will find 600ma is approx 1.55x the 350ma rating


Thanks Mark

:yikes: Oh Nooo I am about 225 lumens missing

But I am happy with it as it is:thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> No, no, not those beam shots. We want trail beam shots:nono:
> 
> And while you're at it can you pull up a collection of the next best optics and put them all side by side with the boom to make it easier for us to compare without having to scroll? (I did mine on photoshop, only took a couple of miuntes) C'mon Chris what else do you have to do, watch reality TV?


No reality tv for me I am painting the spare bedroom 

I dont have photoshop or the skill to use it

Might be a bit of video later this week 
anyway come on we are still waiting for some from you


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> No reality tv for me I am painting the spare bedroom
> 
> I dont have photoshop or the skill to use it
> 
> ...


Oops, sorry mate. I just realised the pics of Freddy Kreuger standing in the snow were the new boom reflectors.

As for my trail shots, the better half is away again and someone's got to watch the little'ns.
I'll try and do some video Thursday night, if not I'm afraid you'll have to wait till the new year, sorry


----------



## Abailey (Dec 8, 2008)

I have had to register again as my old ID won't let me post.

Thanks for the beam shots, I was waiting for the beam shots on this thread, didn't expect them in a different thread. I have been lurking around for a few years and following your projects on this forum and STW, letting you do the hard work. Have you considered making and selling a few of these triple mce lights? or is that only for riding buddies.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Abailey said:


> Have you got any new photos with the 3xboom reflectors?


http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=459075&page=3


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Oops, sorry mate. I just realised the pics of Freddy Kreuger standing in the snow were the new boom reflectors.
> 
> As for my trail shots, the better half is away again and someone's got to watch the little'ns.
> I'll try and do some video Thursday night, if not I'm afraid you'll have to wait till the new year, sorry


:lol: Damn and I thought if I got far enough away my identity would be safe :lol:

Abailey.

I do make a few light for others , I am on with 3 at the moment for folk off STW .
and have a few housings scattered around the world.

It is becoming not a viable option for cheap lights any more with the cheap torches coming out of China . and the whole money exchange rates being crap .

So I thought I would not do the cheap ones as much and do a few really good ones to beat the expensive lupine stuff .

If I do a few for the odd customer it funds the habit of continual improvement so keeps the CFO happy .

I am doing a light at the moment for a customer and if it comes off will be quite something

Also my old builds usually sell when I do a new one


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Have been testing a few reflectors in search for a tighter than the Boom SS.
Only found one (DX sku14599) that gives a round and smooth beam, unfortunately it's 35mm. About 8 degrees hotspot and a 20 degrees corona. Same distances as Troutie's setup for easy comparability. (2.2m to wall and 1m between marks.)


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

gillestugan said:


> Have been testing a few reflectors in search for a tighter than the Boom SS.
> Only found one (DX sku14599) that gives a round and smooth beam, unfortunately it's 35mm


That is some good detective work. Something tells me that since the overall size of the light source is so large, the only way to focus it is a large reflector which isn't very compatible with compact builds.

The beam pattern looks pretty darn good though!


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

yes, but what's the use when the diameter is so large? I would rather use a 4X Cute instead. More bins and tints to choose between, possibility to drive them at 1000mA, better thermal management. But a reflector looks much nicer the a plastic lens 

Will post a list of all reflectors tested in a few days, so you can see what not to buy. (waiting for two more to be delivered)


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

gillestugan said:


> yes, but what's the use when the diameter is so large? I would rather use a 4X Cute instead. More bins and tints to choose between, possibility to drive them at 1000mA, better thermal management. But a reflector looks much nicer the a plastic lens
> 
> Will post a list of all reflectors tested in a few days, so you can see what not to buy. (waiting for two more to be delivered)


Great beam that one Shame it is 35 mm though.

I have to aggree with your comments there too :thumbsup:.

Oh well we keep looking .

There was an excelent link over on CPF explaining why it is so difficult for these multichip devices but I cant seem to find it again , it was by a Carclo boffin in a magazine.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*dx 14599...*

Is there a dark spot in the middle of the beam?

thanks!


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Yes, but it is more faint than it appear in the picture and very hard to see.
A problem with the reflector is that it's made to have one of those screw in cups like the ones in the P60 modules, but comes without it. The cups in the P60s I had lying around didn't fit, so I just filed down the flange making the bottom of the reflector flat.


----------



## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Just noticed I already had bookmarked the excellent article about multi versus single die emitters Troutie was referring to. It can be found in Electronics Weekly.


----------



## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Here comes the reflectors not to use:


















1.Kai smp cree reflector sku S005040
2.Kai smp cree reflector sku S005039
3.Carclo 80 degree reflector (beam is much wider than picture)
4.Fraen 7 degree cree reflector
5.Kai 26mm OP reflector sku S005406
6.Carclo 10209 MC-E 20mm medium ripple lens 
7.Carclo 10195 MC-E 20mm medium smooth lens
8.Kai Wide SSC 35mm lens sku S005131 (beam is much wider than picture)
9.DX Spot cree 35mm lens sku 04544
10Prolight 10 degree reflector Besthongkong

The Fraen looks quite good but is not. It sits too high on the led, blocking lots of lights. Hotspot has the same brightness as the 26mm OP reflector, which gave the best and brightest beam. Not good, but best of the 10.

I also tested another one, but forgot it when I put them together. It is quite good, but have a weak doughnut and cross in the middle.
Kai 23mm cree 10 degree lens sku S004594










I'll probably go for a BOOM SS for spot, but I'm also looking for very wide optics that gives a uniform brightness all over the beam. (no hotspot) Preferably 60-80 degrees. Field of vision is about 80 degrees... Carclo 80 reflector works great with a SSC P4, but I have no space for 3-4 reflectors + the spot reflector(s).


----------



## bbgobie (Apr 20, 2006)

whats wrong with 4,5,7?

4 looks nice and tight, a bit mis-centered.
5. looks smooth
and 7 looks like a nice flood.


----------



## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Yes, I may be a little picky... nr 7 is a very good 25 degrees except is square, not round.
nr 4 is a little miscentered as you say, I dind't notice untli I looked at the picture. But.. the Fraen (nr 4 ) looks quite good but is not. It sits too high on the led, blocking lots of lights. Hotspot has the same brightness as the much wider 26mm OP reflector (nr 5), which also gave the best and brightest beam. Not good, but best of the 10. It has a dark spot in the middle.


----------



## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Thanks gillestugan. Nice contribution!


----------



## bbgobie (Apr 20, 2006)

Thx Gillestugan.


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Thanks for taking some of the guess work out gillestugan. That is some excellent research and will be an invaluable resource :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Great work there and thanks for doing it Gillestugen

No 5 looks ok for a spot but then it is a larger reflector and no good for my builds

So it looks like the Boom SS is the favorite on the small ones to use list.

It is like the search for the holy grail.


----------



## bbgobie (Apr 20, 2006)

how are you guys testing all the lenses?
i've got my test led setup, but with all the different lens sizes, i can only shoot straight up, since nothing is really holding the lenses on.

Looking at the ceiling, I gotta say, I wouldn't really mind any of the optics I've tried.

The smoothest thing has actually just been putting a tube over the led, not as bright, but smooth.

I do kinda like the cheap reflector that came with a DX 3W cree LED flashlight. Smoother than the 20mm carclos I have, but still decent throw.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bbgobie

The ceiling is great that was my method I put a cross of tape 1 mtre across 
and it was 2.2 mtres from light to ceiling.

And I think Gillestugen did the same measurements for his excelent optic test.


----------



## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

Guess I should post a link to my pics as well. As well as taking the picture I use a lux meter to measure the maximum lux at 1M. This realy should indicate what the potential throw is as well as the picture indicating somthing of the spread. I am not very happy with anything I have seen yet. Just ordered some of the mce specific square lenses and EVA's from Brams group-buy so will be testing those as well. hoping for more thow from the EVA's

Ifor


----------



## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Hi, 1 question, know anyone if the XR-E optics are compatibles with the MC-E leds?

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Brilliant 

Thank you for that Ifor that is a really usefull contribution to this thread.:thumbsup:


----------



## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

ifor said:


> Guess I should post a link to my pics as well. As well as taking the picture I use a lux meter to measure the maximum lux at 1M. This realy should indicate what the potential throw is as well as the picture indicating somthing of the spread. I am not very happy with anything I have seen yet. Just ordered some of the mce specific square lenses and EVA's from Brams group-buy so will be testing those as well. hoping for more thow from the EVA's
> 
> Ifor


Awesome! So is it just me, or for the hot spot, are the LM1 and the Rocket SS both better than the boomerang? The spill around the hot spot isn't as nice with those, but perhaps with the two combined, or with one of those and a Boomerang, it would smooth out...

Thanks for posting that!


----------



## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks a lot for the great beamshots! The manufacturers always crop and resize the pictures so the hotspot fills up the image, making it harder to compare them. Your pictures really makes it easy to compare them.


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## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

In terms of max lux eg throw capability the narrow LM1 is better than the narrow boomerang with a max of 3350 as opposed to 2410 and the xr-e designed rocket are square RS are both better at 4460 and 4660. I just found the numbers for the rocket and RS with a Q5 xre and they both came in at 2500 when I was testing originaly hence my disapointment with the mc-e numbers.... We will see once I get the designed for mc-e square optic and the eva... 

The max lux is of course only half of the story I would hope that the MCE designed optics are producing more lumens eg total light we now you get a good flood light with them but measuring that is behond me.

Ifor


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Ledil Eva and others beams*

I just received a parcel from that nice man Bram in the netherlands with some optics to play around with .

So first up lets get some ceiling shots to see how they perform.
these are well underexposed so brightness will have to wait for Ifor to measure when his arrive.

first up is the EVA Wide









EVA-medium









EVA-difuse 









EVA-medium - modified by trout









TESCO torch optic 









CMC-difuse









CMC- smooth spot









CMC- real spot









LM1- real spot


----------



## kgardnez (Jan 31, 2004)

Is it just me or do these last optics seem to blow the others out of the water?


----------



## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Troutie. What did you do to modify the one you labeled "EVA-medium - modified by trout"? Also, did you not get an EVA SS?


----------



## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

msxtr said:


> Hi, 1 question, know anyone if the XR-E optics are compatibles with the MC-E leds?
> 
> Greetings - Saludos
> 
> msxtr


 please...

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Great new set of pics trout! Thanks for ordering one of everything so that I don't have to 

The EVA diffuse, CMC real spot and LM1 real spot all look nice and tight. Especially when compared to your Boom pics on page 6. What does it look like to the naked eye.. Is there a winner? It looks like the MCE is finally showing some of its potential.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

achesalot said:


> Troutie. What did you do to modify the one you labeled "EVA-medium - modified by trout"? Also, did you not get an EVA SS?


Well for biking the wide is a write off mega waste of lumens .
the medium is what I would call a flood and is nice for all round the front of the bike but on its own would be limiting even I could outrun the beam .

The difuse I think is the SS and is not too bad on the ceiling shots cant try on the trail as no host yet I may cobble something up after xmas day .

What I did do with a medium as I dont think it would have ever got into one of my lights 
was sand it flat on the front it lost the bobbles and the concave front and it seemed to tighten the beam quite a bit I will do some pics to show exactly what i did.
this did not inprove a SS when i did it it just showed more clover leaf .

I dont think I will do any EVA lights though might try a single for helmet use .

the square CMC SS and RS look to be the best along with the LM1 RS

I have some Polymer stuff on its way for Stevemorgs build so will get an idea on their beams hopefully before the new year . they were dispatched mon from Cutters


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

msxtr said:


> please...
> 
> Greetings - Saludos
> 
> msxtr


Some of the XRE optics will work with the MCE but not too well .
If you hunt through my threads there are beamshots from any I tried.

the best I found was the Rocket SS 
and The square ledil SS and RS


----------



## blag7 (Dec 8, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> I dont think I will do any EVA lights though might try a single for helmet use.


If I use EVA-D and EVA-M in a helmet light, and no bar light at all, would that work as an all-around MTB bike light?


----------



## il2mb (Jan 27, 2005)

*Troutie*



troutie-mtb said:


> Well for biking the wide is a write off mega waste of lumens .
> the medium is what I would call a flood and is nice for all round the front of the bike but on its own would be limiting even I could outrun the beam .
> 
> The difuse I think is the SS and is not too bad on the ceiling shots cant try on the trail as no host yet I may cobble something up after xmas day .
> ...


Where did you get the CMC SS and RS optics? I've waiting on Cutter for over 8 weeks.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

blag7 said:


> If I use EVA-D and EVA-M in a helmet light, and no bar light at all, would that work as an all-around MTB bike light?


From my findings I would just use 2 EVA-D and forget the M unless you want lots of flood lighting.


----------



## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Some of the XRE optics will work with the MCE but not too well .
> If you hunt through my threads there are beamshots from any I tried.
> 
> the best I found was the Rocket SS
> and The square ledil SS and RS


Hi, I thought that the dome had the same measurement in both leds but I see that I need a specific MC-E optics....

Ok, thank you for your help 

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


----------



## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

il2mb said:


> Where did you get the CMC SS and RS optics? I've waiting on Cutter for over 8 weeks.


Hi, you can buy those optics here

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## blag7 (Dec 8, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> From my findings I would just use 2 EVA-D and forget the M unless you want lots of flood lighting.


Well I'll buy two EVA-Ds and one EVA-M and test it out. Thanks guys, now I don't have to test every single MC-E optics


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Ledil Beamshots*

Ok I had a bit of time to get out and do some trail shots for the ledil optics I recieved before xmas.

Here is the setup we have some torches in Tesco s which have a bit of a following over here . and this is its bigger brother the C cell model which is a superb host for the EVA optics and also a 35 mm cutter quad kit is a good fit with minium work or tools .










https://s199.photobucket.com/flash/remix/player.swf?videoURL=https://vid199.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/amticoman/cf6488dc.pbr&hostname=stream199.photobucket.com

Full sized pics here
https://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/amticoman/LENS TEST/LEDIL OPTICS/?albumview=grid


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Here is the setup we have some torches in Tesco s which have a bit of a following over here . and this is its bigger brother the C cell model which is a superb host for the EVA optics and also a 35 mm cutter quad kit is a good fit with minium work or tools .


Hey Troutie- The video was great. It gave a good comparison of all of the optics as it rolled through. Do you have more information on the Tesco light? I don't recall seeing anything on the build. I like the idea of being able to change lenses like that for comparison.

Thanks!


----------



## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Nice video, but where's the music? I'd suggest "Can You See The Light" by Jeff Healey :rockon:

JZ


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

.40AET said:


> Hey Troutie- The video was great. It gave a good comparison of all of the optics as it rolled through. Do you have more information on the Tesco light? I don't recall seeing anything on the build. I like the idea of being able to change lenses like that for comparison.
> 
> Thanks!


40AET

this is the torch in question whole and dismantled










it is only available in Tesco stores for £10/£12

No details yet of the build as I knocked it up quickly to get the Ledil beamshots.
and probably the easiest build I have ever done. 
I will do a rundown of the build later .


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks a lot. Chasing down the light in the states might be tough. It looks like it would make a quick road light.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Extra Beam Shot Added*

I have added the Ledil LM1-RS to this collection of shots
I think it has a pretty good beam too,

All these shots were taken @ f6.3 and 5 seconds white balance - daylight.

If you have any other MCE optic beam shots send them to me please and I can put them in for a comparison .

https://s199.photobucket.com/flash/remix/player.swf?videoURL=https://vid199.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/amticoman/f63cf817.pbr&hostname=stream199.photobucket.com


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## joebreez (Sep 10, 2005)

Troutie, I've not heard of that "Tesco" optic. Do you have any other info?
edit; sorry, just saw the earlier post about the Tesco torch. I may look on ebay and do a quick build like yours.
It looks like it would make a great helmet light lens, something I'm lacking right now.
I'm also now in possession of the new 20mm Carclo optic series. I'll post some beam shots soon.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

joebreez said:


> Troutie, I've not heard of that "Tesco" optic. Do you have any other info?
> It looks like it would make a great helmet light lens, something I'm lacking right now.
> I'm also now in possession of the new 20mm Carclo optic series. I'll post some beam shots soon.


Joebreez 
that would be good some carclo beams to go with all this lot.

It is a stock optic that comes in a 2 c cell torch from Tesco supermarket in UK .
It is the same size as the ledil EVA = 35 mm and has the best throwing beam I have found for the MCE I have a spare one you can have for the cost of the postage packing to which ever part of the world you are in

The torch is £12 instore in the UK


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## texas (Nov 26, 2004)

*Is there a reason there is not more interest in the IMS20?*

After seeing aschalot's back yard image with the IMS20 I decided to give it a shot and am very happy. It seems like it is designed to give a very narrow beam with a regular LED, but with the MC-E gives some spill and a hot spot that is a nice size with lots of throw.

I am curious why with all these beam shot comparison this reflector never comes up?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

texas said:


> After seeing aschalot's back yard image with the IMS20 I decided to give it a shot and am very happy. It seems like it is designed to give a very narrow beam with a regular LED, but with the MC-E gives some spill and a hot spot that is a nice size with lots of throw.
> 
> I am curious why with all these beam shot comparison this reflector never comes up?


Tex 
The answer to that is Let us see some beam shots then we know if we should splash some cash on them .
I aint got one or there would have been a shot up .


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## joebreez (Sep 10, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> Joebreez
> that would be good some carclo beams to go with all this lot.
> 
> It is a stock optic that comes in a 2 c cell torch from Tesco supermarket in UK .
> ...


Wow, Troutie thanks for the offer, I may hold off though, I'm still trying to get MY flashlight mod squared away.
I'm trimming down some CRS' DS and testing them along with the Carclo's.
Once again though the holder is sitting on the wires and solder pads, I must have bought the wrong MCE setup, I got the one with 8 pads.

Hey Tex, do you have a beam shot of the IMS20?
I find that with all my smooth reflectors I get either a donut hole or the dreaded cloverleaf. You're not getting the same?


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## texas (Nov 26, 2004)

*I tried to get some beam shots, of the IMS20 no luck.*

I tried setting things up with my nikon D70 that my dad gave me when he got a new camera that I have only used a few times Unfortunately things didn't go well. Not sure if it's my ineptitude at operating the camera or some problem with the camera or compact flash reader. Not sure when I will be able to figure things out.

Hopefully Ashcelot will be able to come through with some beam shots for you.

No donuts, Ashchelot did have some donuts when he cut the bottom off the reflector vs just making the hole larger.

There is some minor effects from the multi leds it is very minor and I didn't notice it at all on the trail. There was someone else the suggested that you could spray some clear acrylic splatter on the reflector to eliminate those effects, but since the effects are so minor I decided it wasn't worth messing with.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Happy New Year!

Here you go guys. This is my best effort with the IMS20 (modified) on the MC-E... not ideal by any means, but a good deal more throw than the Boom SS and looks pretty good when the two are mixed together on the trail. Still not as much throw as one would hope for a helmet light. I took a little off of the bottom of the IMS20 (just a little more than removing the chrome paint) and the front is hacked off to fit in my light.










Note: These beamshots are about 5.5 feet from ceiling.

Here is the same image with saturation adjustments so you can see where the hotspot is.


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## texas (Nov 26, 2004)

*was able to get some beam shots.*

Notice Ashelot also posted these should be similar. I think Ashelot cut some off the front of the reflector to fit into his light. My only mod was to enlarge the hole.

The light was 3 feet from the garage door. The hinges that you see in the image are 45" appart.

IMS20



Boom SS


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## pepko (Feb 1, 2008)

*4xMCE*

I'm using sku.1915 quad optic with 4x Cree MCE ...
https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1915

... in this flashlight Endurer 4x18650.
https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14328

More info here
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2725939

Endurer 4xMCE vs Aurora AK-P7 (sku.12624)


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

pepko said:


> I'm using sku.1915 quad optic with 4x Cree MCE ...
> https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1915
> 
> ... in this flashlight Endurer 4x18650.
> ...


Hi, super great job!!!!!!! what driver use you with the 4 MC-E leds??

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## pepko (Feb 1, 2008)

msxtr said:


> Hi, super great job!!!!!!! what driver use you with the 4 MC-E leds??
> 
> Greetings - Saludos
> 
> msxtr


4p4s direct drive with 0.5ohm, 2ohm, 8ohm resistor and 3mode switch http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5660


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Wow Pepko
That is one mean torch 

And nice shots too from Sir Achesalot , 
so it is 2 IMS20 s then for the helmet light.


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## snowhoss (Feb 18, 2007)

*MCE with Ledil L2 Optic, not what I expected*

This was my first attempt at building my own light and I decided to use the Luxeon L2 optics since I knew I could get the parts in a week from LedSupply. The optic gives off a "Clover" pattern which is not what I expected, and the "Smooth Spot" is anything but a spot. Does anyone know of an optic that will fit the Luxeon holder that will work well with the MCE? I would hate to trash $70 worth of electronics and all that time spent building a light with such an odd beam. I guess I could always yank out the optic and holder, after all it is just RTV silicone holding it in place, and replace with a a proper optic.

I have attached pics showing the beam pattern of the DYI and my Cygolite Rover 2 (dual beam).

Thanks for your help.

MCE w/ L2 optic










Rover 2









standing about12ft from house


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Sorry about the clover shaped beam, unfortunately this is very common for optics not specifically designed for the MC-E, as you may have seen in beamshots earlier in this thread. 
Why does the optics need to fit the luxeon holder?
You will not likely find optics which gives a beam as focused as the Rover2, the BOOM SS is probably the best choice if you cant fit a large reflector.


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## snowhoss (Feb 18, 2007)

Gillestugan, I must have completely missed that page of the thread. Thanks for all those beam shots. 
I used silicone adehesive to attach the L2 Optic holder to the LED star and use some AA to adher the copper slug to inside walls of my light. I might be able to pry the optic holder out of the light and replace with a Boom reflector. Any idea of a supplier state-side?


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

snowhoss said:


> Gillestugan, I must have completely missed that page of the thread. Thanks for all those beam shots.
> I used silicone adehesive to attach the L2 Optic holder to the LED star and use some AA to adher the copper slug to inside walls of my light. I might be able to pry the optic holder out of the light and replace with a Boom reflector. Any idea of a supplier state-side?


You might be able to get the Ledil SS Boomerang reflector from led-spot.com --- you'll have to send them an email or call. They are a Ledil distributor.


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

"Here comes the reflectors not to use:' 

Great post, thxs for collecting all those and then taking the time to test and post!!


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

ifor said:


> Guess I should post a link to my pics as well. As well as taking the picture I use a lux meter to measure the maximum lux at 1M. This realy should indicate what the potential throw is as well as the picture indicating somthing of the spread. I am not very happy with anything I have seen yet. Just ordered some of the mce specific square lenses and EVA's from Brams group-buy so will be testing those as well. hoping for more thow from the EVA's
> 
> Ifor


Thxs for posting ...helped me a bunch. I got a Boom SS but am shopping for a narrower now as a helmet the Boom is a little too floody. Did you ever get those EVA's?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

sdnative said:


> Thxs for posting ...helped me a bunch. I got a Boom SS but am shopping for a narrower now as a helmet the Boom is a little too floody. Did you ever get those EVA's?


EVA beamshots are down in post 200 in the little video


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

Trout ...great video post. You da man!

Got my BOOM ss's finally, but they leave a little to be desired for a helmet light. Think I'm going back to acrylic for the helmet. (will post images asap)

In your video, the final Boom looks way brighter than the other lenses...is this an anomaly, or is the boom just that much more efficient ...in your subjective, observed opinion? THxs


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

sdnative said:


> Trout ...great video post. You da man!
> 
> Got my BOOM ss's finally, but they leave a little to be desired for a helmet light. Think I'm going back to acrylic for the helmet. (will post images asap)
> 
> In your video, the final Boom looks way brighter than the other lenses...is this an anomaly, or is the boom just that much more efficient ...in your subjective, observed opinion? THxs


:lol: That last boom pic is brighter because there are 3 MCE and boom SS shining there

I have just put another beamshot at the end 2 mce -booms and 2 R2 - LM1 ss/rs


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

lol ...3. Explains a lot desn't it! 

So, the other shots are just 1 MCE correct? No answer req unless no. Thxs


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

FYI digikey has the Ledil LM series and boomerang ss and m in stock. Took me two days to get them in from ordering


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Just a thought, but what would happen if you removed the primary optics dome that sits over the individual dies. I know it would be exposed, but would that reduce the initial beam angle since most of us are sealing these inside enclosures anyway.

Just a though


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

as i understand this encapsilates the LED die and wire micro tiny leads...if you rip it off, so may go the led. But obviously not planning to try myself... let me know how it works out


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## snowhoss (Feb 18, 2007)

achesalot said:


> You might be able to get the Ledil SS Boomerang reflector from led-spot.com --- you'll have to send them an email or call. They are a Ledil distributor.


 Thanks Achesalot, I will give them a call tomorow.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

snowhoss said:


> Thanks Achesalot, I will give them a call tomorow.


I also recently saw where digikey is carrying them.


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

"FYI digikey has the Ledil LM series and boomerang ss and m in stock. Took me two days to get them in from ordering"

3 week lead time on the boom ss though 

I got 6 from them a month ago, and the manufacture mis-shipped me W's [email protected]([email protected]


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

I only mentioned this due to my vast inneptitude I have done this on several SSCp4's and one MCE. All have worked, but I didn't think of this until after I had destoyed them through other means.


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## Surfr (Dec 28, 2008)

Is there a recomended optic or combo of optics for a 2 Tesco C cell handlebar arrangement? I've got a AA for the helmet too but that will probably remain un-modded. I'd peobably be looking to buy from Bram on CPF marketplace. 

Also I'm interested in replacement drivers and moving batteries outboard of the torch units. Where is the best place to look for info? is it possible to just de-solder the stock driver and replace with something like a bFlex. It would be ace to have low power settings and a warning LED.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Something Strange Here*

After doing the beamshots for Deestas light something seemed amiss 
So I went and did a beam shot at my normal place and it still seemed wrong.

I had a beam shot from a Ledil CMC SS very early on in the MCE season.
and I now have some new CMC SS optics from Brum ( cpf) which I put into Deestas light

The shots are pretty different and much improved here they are . Camera settings are all the same

I would like to compare it to a boom SS but only have a shot of a double boom but will include that .for comparison

-----------EARLY CMC-SS @ 700MA----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------CURRENT CMC SS FROM BRAM @ 600MA










--------------DUAL MCE & BOOM SS @ 500MA


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## joebreez (Sep 10, 2005)

Wow Troutie, quite a big difference.
I haven't used my optics that I got from Bram. Maybe I should mod one and put it in my Torch mod from last month...
Maybe it could be more than a handlebar light.
So far that's the best deep beam shot I've ever seen for the MCE's.
I've pretty much given up on them as a helmet light, except as a Hybrid unit.
This beam shot has got me thinking again


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

Odd. I have also tried some CMC-SS from Bram (got them about 2 weeks ago so I guess the same batch?). I reckon they are more even but less reach than the Rocket-SS although there was very little in it.
So I certainly would not use them for a helmet light. A great flood but one Q5 with a cree 8deg spot has more reach.

So I am very puzzled how you got such a great beam from yours!


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## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

OK I finaly got to test some more optics pictures here I Re-ran the tests at 350ma. Numbers are max Lux at one meter. I have added the Tesco C torch optic, IMS 20 and 27, EVAs and CMCs.

Conclusions.

If you don't mind the hole the Tesco optic has the best spot with the same intensaty as with an xre just but twicw the spread so it may actualy work as a helmet mount with somthing a bit wider.

The CMCs are no brighter than the equiverlant CRSs just a more round image.

The IMS27 is worse than the 20 or at least I failed to position it correctly. The 20 is brighter than the boomerang.

My bar mount / Night O light is being reconfigered to 2 MCE's with CRS-O and CMS-RS and 4 XRE's with CRS-RS. Should look identicle just have a bit more output... I think I will have to do somthing with the tesco optic for a bike helmet mount...

Ifor


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

joebreez said:


> Wow Troutie, quite a big difference.
> I haven't used my optics that I got from Bram. Maybe I should mod one and put it in my Torch mod from last month...
> Maybe it could be more than a handlebar light.
> So far that's the best deep beam shot I've ever seen for the MCE's.
> ...


I am a bit stunned by it myself , I cannot believe it and keep thinking I have made a mistake .
I will be checking to make sure it is correct.

this is the optics twin bro


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

tobymack said:


> Odd. I have also tried some CMC-SS from Bram (got them about 2 weeks ago so I guess the same batch?). I reckon they are more even but less reach than the Rocket-SS although there was very little in it.
> So I certainly would not use them for a helmet light. A great flood but one Q5 with a cree 8deg spot has more reach.
> 
> So I am very puzzled how you got such a great beam from yours!


I am just as puzzled 
this was the set up for the beam shot and I just covered up two of the optics for the shot
the optics are sat normally on the leds 
the only thing I have done is remove the holders and cut off the corners with scissors
then silicon them into the housing.










I even thought I had posted the wrong shot 
this is the shot with all 3 in followed by the single


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ifor said:


> OK I finaly got to test some more optics pictures here I Re-ran the tests at 350ma. Numbers are max Lux at one meter. I have added the Tesco C torch optic, IMS 20 and 27, EVAs and CMCs.
> 
> Conclusions.
> 
> ...


Good comparison pics there Ifor , 
Is it the same MCE for all the pics .

That Tesco torch , I have had one running an MCE for a while now but have reclaimed the MCE for another project

S****horpe not too far from me in Silsden 
If you are ever this way in the dark pop in and check out this light and find out what I have done to get such a good beam .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

comparison shots

CMC-SS -MCE M BIN @ 700MA ALONE IN ITS HOLDER ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------CMC-SS MCE K BIN @ 600MA IN THE TRIPLE WITHOUT HOLDERS










What is happening here guys ????

Is it possible that the fact that all 3 MCE and optics are inside the case without holders and the fact that I have covered 2 up to get the shot ,
the waste light inside the case is getting into the other optics through the sides and improving the beam.

Oh and by the way dont cover mce and optics for long it will burn things


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

> the only thing I have done is remove the holders and cut off the corners with scissors


it is a bit of a long shot but this makes me wonder if they are very sensitive to how they fit over the LED? Is there any chance you have got them seating better than if they were in the holder?
It will take me a few days but I might try an experiment with mine without the holder and try varying the distance from the lens slightly.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

tobymack said:


> it is a bit of a long shot but this makes me wonder if they are very sensitive to how they fit over the LED? Is there any chance you have got them seating better than if they were in the holder?
> It will take me a few days but I might try an experiment with mine without the holder and try varying the distance from the lens slightly.


That is another possibility , and I do know they are sat right on the mce covering the dome .


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

Fantastic thread, still going strong after 2 months. You guys have saved me and other light builders countless hours of testing and a lot of money in optics.

By comparing the early CMC shots and the Bram CMC one makes me notice that the 
second one has more reach AND SPILL! If the Bram optic had more reach, less light should be leaking out as spill.This can only be two things:

-Your pumping more current through the Bram CMC optic (which you didn't)
-Your camera was set to a shorter shutter time at the early CMC shot (making a darker picture)

The EXIF data is missing in you first shot, so I'm not able to confirm this.
The Bram shot was shot at F4 and 6s exposure time
The Boom shot was F5.6 and 5s exposure

I took the liberty of adjusting the brightness in the early CMC shot in photoshop to roughly the same side spill as the Bram one:


Geir


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Geir.

I have had a look at the pic on my puter and you are correct it is 5 seconds @ f6.3 iso 100.

When it gets dark again I will go and do the shots again at the 6 secs f4 setting..

having said that and riding with it there is no doubt in my mind that the triple CMC-ss
is better than the Triple Boom I used before.

I will also get a single Boom ss shot also then we will see.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thank you Geir for your detective work

And as promised consistant shots of the optics in question 
all @ 6 s f4 wb daylight

LEDIL BOOM SS @ 700MA --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------LEDIL CMC SS @ 700MA










LEDIL CMC DIFUSE @ 700MA-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------LEDIL CMC RS @ 700MA


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

Interesting!
You where right.The CMC optic DO have slightly more reach.....and less spill than the Boom SS reflector. A lot less spill. Will you prefer to use the CMC optics instead of the Boom reflectors for a handlebar light? Is there enough spill to light up in front of the wheel?

I have already ordered more reflectors from Cutter and UCL glass from http://www.flashlightlens.com/.

Geir


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Geir68 said:


> Interesting!
> You where right.The CMC optic DO have slightly more reach.....and less spill than the Boom SS reflector. A lot less spill. Will you prefer to use the CMC optics instead of the Boom reflectors for a handlebar light? Is there enough spill to light up in front of the wheel?
> 
> I have already ordered more reflectors from Cutter and UCL glass from http://www.flashlightlens.com/.
> ...


I would now I have tried both optics out on the trail in a triple setup prefer the CMC over the booms ,
I have added a CMC defuse shot to the mix and will add a real spot tonight
as I forgot to take the RS with me.


----------



## krog (Aug 27, 2008)

Hi troutie...

First, thanks for your great work! 

Can you compare the Ledil CRS-SS with the CMC-SS? I hope I'm not mixing things up and remember right, that you also tried the CRS version. No need for beamshots, your opinion would be enough for me. Is there much loss of light or a much wider beam?

Thanks Joerg


----------



## krog (Aug 27, 2008)

krog said:


> Hi troutie...
> 
> First, thanks for your great work!
> 
> ...


Ok, I can answer this myself, after finding ifor's post: "The CMCs are no brighter than the equiverlant CRSs just a more round image."

Another question: I orderd 4xCRS-SS, but there was a mixup. I received these:
https://bild.profila.de/albums/userpics/normal_DSC02369.JPG

Can anyone tell me which versions these might be?


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

I'd guess they were the -SS on the left and the -D on the right. What colour are the holders? It could be just co-incidence but all my XRE holders are grey whereas the MCE ones are black. They look black so I'd have guessed CMC not CRS.

BR,
Toby


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

tobymack said:


> I'd guess they were the -SS on the left and the -D on the right. What colour are the holders? It could be just co-incidence but all my XRE holders are grey whereas the MCE ones are black. They look black so I'd have guessed CMC not CRS.
> 
> BR,
> Toby


 The ones pictured are -SS and -M. If you post an image of the bottom of the optics I can tell for which LED they are made.

XPC (XPE), SSS (P4) and CMC (MC-E) all have black holders, they are not the same though, each one has a different aligment hole on the bottom. The actual optic itself also varies, an CRS (XR-E) optic wont fit over the dome of an MC-E.


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## joebreez (Sep 10, 2005)

I believe 2 are the SSpot and 2 are the medium beam. The SS have the larger diffusion pattern.


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## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

I have added the polymer optics 225 to my pictures it is brighter than the rest apart from the Tescos but it is a big beast. I discovered I had messed up with the white balance previously it was on auto which I think explains some of the colour variance. I have done with 225 with wb auto and also done it with outdoors. I have used the same setting with a neutral white mce min 370 lux which I just got.

I have added two xpe pictures from an r2 with the carlo 10mm tight narow and the Khotod 1153 6 degree linear triple which looks very promising.

Ifor


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks a lot ifor! I just had decided on the 1153 as it looked good on paper. (better than the round 25mm). Your pictures confirms it is very tight. Always good to see beamshots from a independent test.


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## milkyspit (Feb 4, 2009)

Hi guys! :band: First of all, this is great stuff. I just finished going through the whole thread... a LOT of good info here!

Regarding IMS20, been using that one (with enlarged small opening) with the MCE for a while now, so for what it's worth, here's another data point supporting that it's a nice combination. As others have noted, the hotspot isn't perfect but IMHO the artifacts are only minimally noticeable in real world use, if at all. Great combination, and easy on the wallet, too. 

I'm wondering why nobody seems to have covered the larger Fraen reflector made for the MCE, specifically Fraen part number FRC-N1-MCE-0R (the narrow version... there are also wider angle variants)? Just got a number of these and was absolutely floored with the beam quality. I need to spend more time and take a more careful look, but so far it seems a real winner. Got mine here in the States from Arrow Electronics, for maybe $2.50 each (going from memory).

As for me, this is one of my first posts over here, only found the forum recently. My main home forumwise has been CPF for quite some time now. You can see some of my work over there, if you want, in the *Milky Eye Candy Thread*.

Oh, and due to this thread I just blew another $70 or so on an assortment of Ledil reflectors and optics to play with! Oh well.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hell Milky how many coffee breaks did it need to get through the whole thread.

I wondered if it was the CPF milkyspit I have seen your stuff over there for a while and it is cool stuff .and we hope you stick around , :thumbsup:


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## bbgobie (Apr 20, 2006)

Hi Milky!
Its great to have you here!
Love your work on CPF!
Do you have pics of the beam shots with the Fraen.


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Hi Milky! Good to see you on here! I've always admired your lights on CPF can't wait to see what you come up with if you decide to do a bike light.

Cheers!


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## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

Just added a 'Fraen reflector for Cree MC-E 13.5°' to my gallery which I got from www.led-tech.de. Its big being MR11 size but probobly has the best spot of everything I have tested apart from the tesco c. It has a bit more usfull spill than the tesco. I think it may even be a bit too narrow for the head but may be good on the road.

Ifor


From mce_optic_test


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Have you testet the Boom SS also? If so - can you compare the two in terms of hotspot and spill?

Thanks!


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## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

Here is the Boom SS picture. Spot is a lot wider than the Fraen. There are a load more in the gallery click the link. The number in the coment is max lux I measured at 1m. Unfoirtunatly I had the white balance on auto initaly which is why you get the colour shifts.... The later pictures have it fixed and are consistant.

Ifor


From mce_optic_test


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

my favorite from your comparison is the polymer optics 225. almost the same lux level as the fraen but a more gradual spill.
shame it is such a big, complex reflector. 

Mind you, that comment shows how my perception has changed recently. A year ago I would have thought a 37mm dia light was quite small! 

Toby


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## Eamon Stanley (Jul 22, 2006)

I was checking in on the Khatod site today, and I notice that they're claiming four new MC-E optic groups. 

PL1243/4/5/6 in different beam spreads. 

These weren't there a week or ten days ago when I checked last, so they're new. I'm curious if anyone has seen prototypes of these? 

I'm accumulating a bag full of MC-E optics, and the one I'm using so far is the Eva-D. The beam is a bit wide, but the spill is nice and smooth. Tried the Boom (floody), the Fraen (great spot, but the spill transition is way too sudden), and the POL225(generally troublesome, and messy on-axis). 

Being foolishly optimistic, I think that the Khatods might be worth a try, if I can find a couple.

Eamon


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## mr ben (Apr 17, 2009)

Hi all. Beginner's questions --

Carclo do lens holders (diameter 21.2mm) for MC-E, and a variety of lenses (diameter 20mm) to fit these holders.
Can I basically use any of that lens-family in those holders?
And do they work well?

(I am looking for diffuse/medium light shamelessly mounted bars-only)

I was wondering about the 20mm diameter; does the small dia. compromise performance?
The EVA is ~35mm dia.; sounds more like it.
But how do you attach the EVA in front of the MC-E / inside the housing?
Can’t find pictures of any EVA holders...

Ben


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

mr ben said:


> Hi all. Beginner's questions --
> 
> Carclo do lens holders (diameter 21.2mm) for MC-E, and a variety of lenses (diameter 20mm) to fit these holders.
> Can I basically use any of that lens-family in those holders?
> ...


Hi, Ben, the EVA optics don't need holders, this lean directly over the led. You need a lid to "compress" the optic with the led.

I don't know if I explain well...

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## mr ben (Apr 17, 2009)

Hi msxtr.

Yes it's clear now. I'm getting there...
Thanks - _Muchas gracias_

Ben


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Some new optics beam shots*

I just recieved a couple of new optics to try out with the MCE .from Cutters.

first the Ledil Iris which is a huge thing at 38 mm dia and 30 mm high 
and second is a Khatod XR-E aspheric thingy I spotted on cutters site and took a gamble it would fit the MCE , .

as it was still light and I am an impatient devil i set up this target in the garage for some test shots .
distance from light to target is 2 metres , the camera has no manual setting so ignore the different brightnesses this is purely a beam shape .

I have also thrown in a few other optics that we are familiar with for comparison.
and will do a couple of shots out in my beam shot place when it gets dark .

First up is the Ledil EVA medium










Ledil EVA Difuse










Ledil CMC Defuse










Ledil Boom










the New Ledil Iris










Tesco torch optic










The new Kathod XRE aspherical but on an MCE


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Nice work Troutie, did you get a chance to test the little aspheric you bought from the close out place in anticipation for the XP-G. I saw the beam shots of it on the XP-E and you mentioned you would try it on the MC-E.

This is looking very promising, might be time to pull the beast out of the cupboard


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> The new Kathod XRE aspherical but on an MCE


Looks good Mr Trout, just the right amount of defocusing. Did you just plonk it down onto the led or did you twiddle with the height?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Nice work Troutie, did you get a chance to test the little aspheric you bought from the close out place in anticipation for the XP-G. I saw the beam shots of it on the XP-E and you mentioned you would try it on the MC-E.
> 
> This is looking very promising, might be time to pull the beast out of the cupboard


Hi Stu 
No I had a little play inside but would need to make some sort of holder first.
and it seemed i bit too small to catch the light from the MCE .

Hi Znomit 
. No Faffing it was just plonked on the MCE

It might be a little narrow to used for MTB ( who would have thought a MCE optic too narrow)

Never got a chance to test it in the dark as had too much wine and fell asleep


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*And The Winner After All These Optics Is*

Well after months and numerous optics tested I announce the Winner in my opinion for best beam from an MCE optic goes to the .

LEDIL IRIS

It is the wow factor I was hoping for and never got all those months ago.
the down side is the size @ 38 mm diameter in its holder and 29 mm high .

tested on a K bin MCE @ 500 ma the beam in the woods is truly in a class of its own .

as the sky shows it was a moonlit night but still darl in the woods.

:drumroll:

yes it does merit a drumroll .










and to compare it with the ledil Boom on an MCE @ 700 ma


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Well after months and numerous optics tested I announce the Winner in my opinion for best beam from an MCE optic goes to the .
> 
> LEDIL IRIS


I was waiting for you or someone to say that after seeing your "plywood shots" (is that birch?  )

Tight and bright is what everyone has been waiting for, right? And really, 38mm isn't _that_ big. I mean, it wasn't that long ago when we were riding around with one or more MR-16 halogens on out bars/heads, and a big honkin' SLA battery. 

But why _38_? Couldn't they make it 35mm, to match the standard MR-11 size? 

JZ


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Just looking at the data sheet, I see 38mm is the full diam. including the holder. so maybe the optic itself is 35. But it's 28mm deep, so unlikely to retrofit into an existing MR-11 housing unless it hangs out the front. Not that there's anything wrong with that  

JZ


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

The optic is indeed 35 mm dia . the holder is really quite well designed with grooves for wiring and holes to screw it down .

it is quite sensitive to positioning and a little out make a large difference to the beam. 

Yes you are correct it is 9 mm 8 ply birch plywood


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Yes you are correct it is 9 mm 8 ply birch plywood


 I know my wood. They pay me to play with it: www.cotswoldfurniture.com My boss is from over there in your neighborhood somewhere.

JZ


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

*Troutie, nice work with*

finally getting around to announcing a winner, I was about to write to management to complain about the delay 

Ok, so for those of us that think 38mm is too big and would like to try and get their triples working effectively without making them huge, do you have a preferred optic around the 20mm diameter mark?

Cheers

Stuart


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> finally getting around to announcing a winner, I was about to write to management to complain about the delay
> 
> Ok, so for those of us that think 38mm is too big and would like to try and get their triples working effectively without making them huge, do you have a preferred optic around the 20mm diameter mark?
> 
> ...


I had to make a huge sacrifice and stay up way past my bedtime to get that last beamshot now the light nights are here 

Looking through all my beamshot pics the nomination for best 20 mm optic goes to the Ledil CMC RS


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> Well after months and numerous optics tested I announce the Winner in my opinion for best beam from an MCE optic goes to the .
> 
> LEDIL IRIS
> 
> It is the wow factor I was hoping for and never got all those months ago.


Dang it, my order of Fraen reflectors just arrived. :madman:


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## Giant-Lander (Feb 13, 2009)

I hadn't drop by this thread for 10 days or so and in the meantime, i got an LEDIL IRIS as well!!! I fitted it in my MTE P7 and it works like a charm, punching a tighter spot that the stock reflector (!) . I must admit i hadn't seen this one coming. A collimator optic providing a tighter beam than a reflector of the same size. It's actually a 35mm+ optic and it fits the flashlight really good if you take out the glass. I also tried it with the osram ostar with very good results. Taking into account the fact that it's an MCE dedicated optic, i'm sure that it would outperform when used with the MCE. It think it would made a great helmet light.


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## SIKAZ (May 25, 2009)

Hi Troutie

Following your work for a while Great stuff. Three questions if I may....

Cutters have two Iris optics "Iris" and the Iris-M" which one did you use? 

How would you compare the spill of the Iris to Fraen 13.5?(I found the spill of the Fraen very uniform but way too wide and dim) 

If you were to use 2 MCE's for a helmet light one being the Iris what optic would you use for the second to brighten the spill?

Cheers
Sikaz


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

SIKAZ said:


> Hi Troutie
> 
> Following your work for a while Great stuff. Three questions if I may....
> 
> ...


Hi Sikaz
and welcome to diy lights are us.

The optic used was the Iris 
This is by far the best beam I have seen from an MCE optic and I have tried out a fair amount . the down side is the size 
at 38 mm diameter 
To be fair though I would be very happy to use only one for a helmet light I dont think you need 2 
and 2 on the bars would be the bees knees

I have not done anything with it yet just the test beamshots but am thinking of putting it in one of the empty DX torch casings when it arrives


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

SIKAZ said:


> Hi Troutie
> 
> Following your work for a while Great stuff. Three questions if I may....
> 
> Cutters have two Iris optics "Iris" and the Iris-M" which one did you use?


...not that I'm answering for Troutie but I noticed on the Ledil site that the Iris-M is a medium 
( ~ 10 degree ) optic. The Iris is supposedly ( ~ 5.5 degree ). Troutie...I second the question from SIKAZ.....M or not to M...that is the question. Oh, and thanks for doing all those beam shots and comparisons. I now know what optics to get if I want to do an MC-E build for the helmet. :thumbsup:


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I've got a Fraen 13.5 ordered should be here soon  going to modify my MTE MC-E torch with it, using a Q5 torch on my head along side to fill in the dark spot in the middle is annoying me, by the look of the pic above it looks perfect for head mounting, if it'll fit some how.

Order some 20mm optics aswell to try to attach to my 400Lumen MC-E 26mm torch, 20mm optics, see if that'll be useable with a tight spot or maybe a flood optic compared to the stock reflector which I think should unscrew.

Operation BOTCH here we come


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Turveyd said:


> Order some 20mm optics aswell to try to attach to my 400Lumen MC-E 26mm torch, 20mm optics, see if that'll be useable with a tight spot or maybe a flood optic compared to the stock reflector which I think should unscrew.


I tried the Carclo 20mm in a spot and a medium for the MC-E and was pretty disappointed with how floody and diffuse even the "spot" optic was. I then used the Ledil CMC SS. It was better/usable and went on a few rides with it but still not what I wanted. I have some Fraen 13.5s now and they look good on a test setup. Now I just need time to make new housings for the Fraens.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Thats the ones I've got, Carclo 20mm Spot Medium and Flood ordered just to experiment with them and make the £8 P&P worth it abit more and some thermal paste.

I use the 400Lumen P60 Dropin on the bars anyway so likely set it up as a Mid really ( if possible I'll add within the confines of a WF501b torch ), see if it seems brighter than with the stock reflector.


Hoping the MC-E with a Fraen will be useable on medium power for 90% of my riding, which puts my run time through the roof, shall see.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Ahhhh the Tesco's is a 35mm torch to get it from, might have to pop into tesco's tommorow then, although would like some spill for peripheral vision while riding, I tried it with my 25mm ish Tesco's Optic and failed miserably ofcourse.

Just tried the 20mm optic on my Q5 and prefer the standard reflector, slightly further range and heating issues without the Reflector screwed onto a drop in, likely ruins my 400lumen MC-E Optic useage hey


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## SMSAlmer (Sep 17, 2008)

Troutie, do you think the iris is good for a handlebar light? I would like to make a setup with two MCEs, controlled separately. Was thinking about using the Iris in combination with an EVA-D or M. Would that give me good fill, near the bike?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

SMSAlmer said:


> Troutie, do you think the iris is good for a handlebar light? I would like to make a setup with two MCEs, controlled separately. Was thinking about using the Iris in combination with an EVA-D or M. Would that give me good fill, near the bike?


I have not finished my build yet and we are at the longest time of the year with daylight so dont get much chance to ride in the dark .
but I would say it will make an excelent bar or helmet light .

me personaly I would go for two iris lights but just make one first and keep your options open for the second one .


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## SMSAlmer (Sep 17, 2008)

The LM1 series are also looking quite tempting, especially for fill.

Thanks! You're an inspiration!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

SMSAlmer said:


> The LM1 series are also looking quite tempting, especially for fill.
> 
> Thanks! You're an inspiration!


Mark sent me a LM1 rec optic and it had an impresive oblong beam . very clean 
again not had chance to do a proper job with it


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## SMSAlmer (Sep 17, 2008)

I suppose you put that vertically? I would like to try to obtain as much as a smooth beam I can..


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Had my delivery of Optics + Fraen Reflector arrive FINALLY and majorly disapointed I must say.

Using my existing MC-E torch stripped down for easy testing purposes.

Fraen 34.5mm 13.5d reflector, nice looking spot similar in size to the MTE's stock reflector, no doughnut but down on power hugely which really shocked me.

The 20mm Carclo 8.7d was just a nasty spot loads of artifacts even lower on power.

The 19d and 35d looked okay but down on power compared to a reflector so not bothering to change my 400lumen torch to 1 

And my MC-E Stock reflector I cut away some material from the base so it fits better over the LED's casing which improves the spot's power nicely and removed the black hole in the middle, result  and tightened the spot slightly. So anyone with a MTE M3-2 get slicing with a sharp knife!!


Spare optics going free if anyone in the UK wants them!!


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## roel (May 24, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> Well after months and numerous optics tested I announce the Winner in my opinion for best beam from an MCE optic goes to the .
> 
> LEDIL IRIS
> 
> ...


Hi,
Does it coming from a single MCE? and is it from a handle bar or from a helmet? Im planning to build a helmet light and i would go with an IRIS, you suggest that one MCE is fine on helmet, but supposedly i will not use handle bar light. What combination would be great to brighten up more the spill? Thanks.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Anyone got any Dimensions for that Tesco's 35MM MCE compatible Optic ??? ( Depth being Key need to be @25mm deep to fit in the torch!! £12 might be worth a gamble 

I'm considering trying 1 of those, torch modified it nicer but would still like a more intense/further spot


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## AlisterG (Nov 14, 2008)

Tesco optic is 17-18mm deep, 35.5mm (MR11) dia; my local Tesco homeware branch has been selling them at £9 ish, possibly as the LED is now a Seoul, not Cree.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

roel said:


> Hi,
> Does it coming from a single MCE? and is it from a handle bar or from a helmet? Im planning to build a helmet light and i would go with an IRIS, you suggest that one MCE is fine on helmet, but supposedly i will not use handle bar light. What combination would be great to brighten up more the spill? Thanks.


That beamshot is from 1 MCE it is not yet in a light just on a mce sat on a block of ali one I use for testing the optics .

trouble with the MCEs is you cant have both spill and good throw so then you would need 2 mce or a secondary wide led/optic for the close spill .

at the risk of plugging my own stuff but something like the 6 xpe or less becomes real nice and tuneable with the small optics instead of 1 optic trying to do both jobs.


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## roel (May 24, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> That beamshot is from 1 MCE it is not yet in a light just on a mce sat on a block of ali one I use for testing the optics .
> 
> trouble with the MCEs is you cant have both spill and good throw so then you would need 2 mce or a secondary wide led/optic for the close spill .
> 
> at the risk of plugging my own stuff but something like the 6 xpe or less becomes real nice and tuneable with the small optics instead of 1 optic trying to do both jobs.


Thanks a lot, i might go with 2 MCEs and a bflex on my helmet.Whats the appropriate battery for it? Appreciate your help, a newbie here.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks Alistair, saved me some cash I know it won't at that width fit back far enough into my torch to reach the emmitor, as it's 1mm wider for the same width as the Fraen POS!! 

MCE with no black hole seems like it'll do fine though


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