# Carbon Brake rotors



## gotfish8 (Jun 7, 2009)

check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.

Designed for a better ride. -


----------



## Millfox (Jun 22, 2012)

They will probably have to go with special pads. Sintered would destroy the thing in one ride.


----------



## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

gotfish8 said:


> check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.
> 
> Designed for a better ride. -


Carbon fiber is a poor material for rotors.

I have been using Avid BBDB/BB7s for 13 years with various rotors and still have not experienced "turkey gobble" or heard it from other riders' brakes.


----------



## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

WW will be all over these .... don't think i would touch them with a 10' pole though.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

shiggy said:


> Carbon fiber is a poor material for rotors.
> 
> I have been using Avid BBDB/BB7s for 13 years with various rotors and still have not experienced "turkey gobble" or heard it from other riders' brakes.


Naah Shiggy, that sure depends 

I made a carbon rotor (and pads), using a composite intended for the purpose.
That brake is anything but "poor".
The thing is though, that the composites that are cheap enough for consumer applications, are pretty poor. 
If people were willing to pay for the right material, steel rotors would be a Wallyworld exclusive product.

Magura 

EDIT: Pics of a "not so poor" composite brake.


----------



## ridonkulus (Sep 5, 2011)

These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.


----------



## Guest (Nov 10, 2012)

CF rotors have been around in other arenas for yrs with steller success. It's application specific no doubt with 'heat' being the determining factor.


----------



## gotfish8 (Jun 7, 2009)

What is SiCCC?
SiCCC, is a Silicon Carbide, Ceramic, and Carbon fiber braking material developed specifically for cycling. Our goal from the start was to create a more reliable, better wearing, lighter weight brake rotor. Silicon Carbide for friction, Ceramic for heat, and Carbon fiber for strength.

The SiCCC disc rotor braking surface provides a level of power and progressive feel that equals or surpasses the best conventional rotors. The progressive power is excellent; not much lever effort is required, and the response is quick but not over-the-bar grabby by any means. 

The SiCCC disc rotor braking surface is a non-metallic composite and it is thermally inert, meaning it doesn’t expand and contract as all metal rotors do. There is no heat-induced stress distortion on the disc.

This performance is available instantly: no warm-up needed. 
Hot or cold. Wet or dry.

All of this and a serious weight reduction.
This can translate into improved suspension performance due to less inertia and handling at speed by reducing gyroscopic effect. The average rider noticing this science at play is debated, the joy of a turkey-gobble free bike that is also lighter is undeniable. 


How it works: 
Braking, in this case, is turning kinetic energy into heat. Bicycle disc brakes operate on a transfer film principle. Pad material is transferred to the braking surface of the rotor (which is the reason for a bedding in period). This transfer results in both the friction and the lubrication to provide usable braking. The specific selection of materials determines the progression and wear of the rotor and pads. 

Speaking of wear:
Currently, it is easy to chew through the highest priced rotors on the market in a season. SiCCC rotors? Well, let's just say we will be in the pad business because these rotors are just too tough. The longevity of the rotor braking surface is down right astounding.

What are SiCCC rotors compatible with?
Sintered metal, organic, semi metallic, kevlar, ceramic, resin and 'unidentified' oem pad materials were all tested. All major hydraulic brake systems, Dot 4, Dot 5, mineral oil as well as mechanical systems were tested. 


The two different options explained:
The SiCCC material is expensive and it is challenging to work with. But for total weight reduction, no frills, no fasteners, just light and tough - a one piece rotor is the lightest we can make. That means it gets our soon to be coveted -SFL- designation. You will instantly know what that acronym stands for when you pick up a product bearing that trademark. Some of us will tolerate an extra gram or ten for a color keyed component or to save a buck. The carbon spider on the two piece rotor reduces manufacturing cost. The rivets add some weight, paint adds some too. A color matched spider on your favorite carbon bike? Yes, please. We know it's a hard choice. That's why we offered both, we couldn't bear to leave one on the shelf.

One more thing on colors, get us some feedback!:
Turner orange, Ibis silver, Santa Cruz yellow, Yeti teal? Why don't you tab on over to Facebook and like us, then tag a picture of the bike you are going to bolt up these SiCCC rotors to. If you sign up for the 2 piece, we will collect your color choice when the options are photographed, post project funding. 

Other things to note:
Like all rotors, it is important to bed in the pads+ rotors. At least a few laps around the block in a controlled environment to accurately follow the bed in procedure in the video on our site and written instructions. New brakes, pads or drip something on the rotor? Remove, clean the rotor with acetone and start the bed-in over. Also, 200mm will come later in two piece and SFL. SFL first. There are no plans for two piece 140mm because of manufacturing efficiencies.


----------



## Guest (Nov 10, 2012)

ridonkulus said:


> These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.


CF pads as well hence requiring heat for effectiveness.


----------



## gotfish8 (Jun 7, 2009)

It the same technology as these Brembo Brakes - Carbon ceramic discs

I would try them, I think innovation is awesome!


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

nvphatty said:


> CF pads as well hence requiring heat for effectiveness.


No. That is an old wives tale.

Magura


----------



## Guest (Nov 10, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> No. That is an old wives tale.
> 
> Magura


which part the heat or CF pads?? dunno bout the wives but wise tale yes.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

ridonkulus said:


> These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.


This is due to the way IR radiation works. The higher the temp, the higher radiation.
The is a log. function, so like 10C higher rotor temp, gives like 30% higher radiation, once you're up around 120C you really feel the difference. The rotors will be able to dissipate a huge amount of energy.

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

nvphatty said:


> which part the heat or CF pads?? dunno bout the wives but wise tale yes.


The requirement of heat to work proper.

Mine are brutal when cold.

As I recall, the effect increases like 10-20% from cold to ideal temp.

Ideal working temp is reached pretty quick though, when keeping the mass low, not that it makes a noticeable difference in a bike brake.

Magura


----------



## Guest (Nov 10, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> The requirement of heat to work proper.
> 
> Mine are brutal when cold.
> 
> ...


ahhhhhh i see and frankly makes sense with constant R/D over the yrs. My experience comes from MC racing when they used shrouds to help them get up to operating temp and retain it.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

nvphatty said:


> ahhhhhh i see and frankly makes sense with constant R/D over the yrs. My experience comes from MC racing when they used shrouds to help them get up to operating temp and retain it.


That would be like 15 years ago, no? 
Back when the rotors were massive, and vibrated like they were paid to do so.

Magura


----------



## Guest (Nov 10, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> That would be like 15 years ago, no?
> 
> Magura


yes roughly. now days the MOTOGP bikes have much smaller/thinner rotors that work straight away however any sign of wet and iron rotors get put into action.


----------



## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

ridonkulus said:


> These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.


The automotive race rotors are carbon/carbon, not carbon fiber, and need to be near red hot to be effective.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

nvphatty said:


> yes roughly. now days the MOTOGP bikes have much smaller/thinner rotors that work straight away however any sign of wet and iron rotors get put into action.


Ok, so I am chatting with somebody to whom it wasn't an old wives tale, but real experience, just long ago :thumbsup:

I have noticed the performance going down in the wet, but on a bike, there is still plenty of excess brake power from the composite brake I have. 
The only thing I can come up with, that is not so nice, is the transition from wet to dry.
It can be pretty brutal if I don't pay attention. It is just a matter of habit though. Once you are used to this, you pay more attention to conditions that may cause a rapid transition.

On a MOTOGP bike though, I would probably miss a heartbeat or two, if surprised by such a transition 

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

shiggy said:


> The automotive race rotors are carbon/carbon, not carbon fiber, and need to be near red hot to be effective.


Look a couple of posts above, and such a type of rotor material, would be what you see 

It's been a while since that was sorted out.

Magura


----------



## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

It's all conjecture till I try it. Maybe one day.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

ehigh said:


> It's all conjecture till I try it. Maybe one day.


LOL! 

Drop by and have a go.

Magura


----------



## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

Are you in the United States?


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

ehigh said:


> Are you in the United States?


No, Denmark.

Drop by though. The weather sucks, but the food is fair 

Magura


----------



## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

Mr.Magura said:


> No, Denmark.
> 
> Drop by though. The weather sucks, but the food is fair


And the ladies are pretty damn fine :thumbsup:


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

danielsilva said:


> And the ladies are pretty damn fine :thumbsup:


I hate to disappoint you, but that's an old wives tale 

Look further south in Europe my friend.

Magura


----------



## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

Mr.Magura said:


> I hate to disappoint you, but that's an old wives tale
> 
> Look further south in Europe my friend.


I am from southern europe  It is just a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" :thumbsup:


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

On a different note.

I just had a chat with one of the guys behind these brakes.
They are definitely on to something.
The way they make them, is close to the brake I made, but with a fraction of the cost.

Looking forward to see where this leads.

Magura


----------



## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

They have a kickstarter page up, SiCCC Bicycle Brake Rotor: Silicon Carbide-Ceramic-Carbon by Kettle Cycles - Kickstarter although not yet active. At the price ( at least in this stage ) of $165 i might be on the backers list tbh.


----------



## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

Could this thread be spam, intended to garner donations to line someone's pockets?

Make no mistake, there are NO carbon fiber rotors offered for sale by this company. Right now, it's just a figment of the imagination of some wannabe. 

I checked the location for "the company," and it appears to be an apartment or a townhome in Illinois. I'll not divulge the exact location out of respect for privacy. Mister GotFish, you're also from Illinois. Are you, or do you know the people behind these so called carbon fiber rotors? 

What's telling is that this "company" doesn't really sell a product, but they are begging for money. They are begging for $15,000 in donations for this project. But their web page admits that this is not a "live project," it is only a "draft." If I donate $100, what will happen to it?

If this company actually had a legitimate product, plenty of venture capitalists would be lining up to invest. I try to be openminded. If you send me a sample of your product, I'll evaluate it. If i find it to be a worthy product, perhaps we can talk about an investment in the company. I'll need four six bolt rotors, two 203 mm and two 160 mm. I'll give you an honest evaluation. Send three more 160's, two 203's, and a 185, and I'll do a better evaluation for you. PM me for the shipping address. 

The company's web page lists a bunch of "authorized dealers" across the country. I followed the links, and NONE of these authorized dealers actually exists. None. 

As far as I can tell, the company sells nothing, but they will gleefully accept donations, nothing more.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

RustyIron said:


> Could this thread be spam, intended to garner donations to line someone's pockets?
> 
> Make no mistake, there are NO carbon fiber rotors offered for sale by this company. Right now, it's just a figment of the imagination of some wannabe.


Did you actually read what Kickstarter is about? 
It's not donations, but a number of confirmed sales to get a new company off the ground.

Now captain Obvious, can you figure how to add up, that they are on Kickstarter, for getting their FIRST production series off the ground, and that they have not run the FIRST series yet, thus only have prototypes, which are not for sale.

It's funny that you choose the first real innovative product in a long time, for your paranoid post, and not one of all the semi-fraud products we have seen lately.

I especially like your logic: if they won't give you their product for free, they don't have nothing 
If I were in their place, you'd be the last person I'd consider as product tester.

Magura


----------



## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

I stand corrected. That guy runs a great company that makes a wonderful product and consumers are beating down the door of his apartment to get their hands on these rotors and "kickstarter" is a great business plan used by many successful companies that employ thousands of people.


----------



## Bataivah (Feb 19, 2011)

Have to start somewhere I guess. Every WW in the world will have a set of these. I'm no WW but I
love to shave grams when I can, and rotors were something I've been waiting to become lighter
one day.


----------



## Guest (Nov 11, 2012)

Bataivah said:


> Have to start somewhere I guess. Every WW in the world will have a set of these. I'm no WW but I love to shave grams when I can, and rotors were something I've been waiting to become lighter one day.


If not these it'll be something else down the road...who knows CF uni/dual crown forks W/hollow Ti QR axles or CF suss linkages. but rest assure it will always be something.


----------



## B.BL (Nov 6, 2005)

RustyIron said:


> I stand corrected. That guy runs a great company that makes a wonderful product and consumers are beating down the door of his apartment to get their hands on these rotors and "kickstarter" is a great business plan used by many successful companies that employ thousands of people.


Kickstarter is a service that allows startups to sell a batch of prototypes, without worrying about leftover stock. A colleague of mine currently makes and sells some electronic device over that platform.


----------



## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

RustyIron said:


> I stand corrected. That guy runs a great company that makes a wonderful product and consumers are beating down the door of his apartment to get their hands on these rotors and "kickstarter" is a great business plan used by many successful companies that employ thousands of people.


Actually thousands of profitable and known businesses started on Kickstarter and some of their projects reach the multi-million mark. Last years they reached the 100 million dollar mark in funding ... so yes there are thousand of successful projects/companies that started on Kickstarter.


----------



## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

I am very very interested in these. Will pick them up tomorrow if they fit the hope v4 setup at the 203-180 sizes. They sound cool, and the price is low enough to mess around with them.


----------



## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

I must say, personally, I find this idea quite interesting. Quite.


----------



## TheBikeMechanic (Oct 26, 2009)

So what is the curing/ treatment/ preparation processes are you using? No need to be too revealing...just curious!


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

SpecialWarr said:


> So what is the curing/ treatment/ preparation processes are you using? No need to be too revealing...just curious!


If you're asking about my brake, I have to say that I can't tell you (well, I also won't) due to my confidentiality with my supplier.

If you ask about the brakes from the company in Illinois, I can tell they won't tell, cause I've already asked when I talked to them a couple of days ago 

Magura


----------



## TheBikeMechanic (Oct 26, 2009)

I was thinking about yours, but I can't say I expected a detailed lay-up or anything.... I understand the confidentiality agreement argument....I don't want to get anyone in trouble, I was just curious.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

SpecialWarr said:


> I was thinking about yours, but I can't say I expected a detailed lay-up or anything.... I understand the confidentiality agreement argument....I don't want to get anyone in trouble, I was just curious.


Pretty much the latest and greatest in composite friction materials, is the Carbenix 4000.
I would think you could find some info about that online.

Mine and theirs, are pretty close, since we are talking SIC composite.

Magura


----------



## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

Carbon fiber or composite rotors? Sounds like an expensive solution to a problem that largely doesn't exist.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

410sprint said:


> Carbon fiber or composite rotors? Sounds like an expensive solution to a problem that largely doesn't exist.


That depends how you define the word "problem" 

A lighter rotor, that is very hard wearing, and immune to fading.

That seems pretty nice to me.

I am at least very happy with mine.

Magura


----------



## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

Just to chime in, I am not sure what happened to them, yet Fibre-Lyte of the UK offered carbon brake discs around 2008. Maybe some of our UK friends might be able to shed some light on these. I do not know if they were for show or not. What I do know is that I do not see them on their catalog anymore.


----------



## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Mr.Magura said:


> That depends how you define the word "problem"
> 
> A lighter rotor, that is very hard wearing, and immune to fading.
> 
> ...


You have a set? Pictures.


----------



## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

No reason carbon-ceramic brakes would not work on a bike, but they would likely be crazy expensive if done properly. Production cars from Ferrari, Porsche, etc. have offerred CF rotors for over a decade, now. Replacement cost is about 5 grand PER WHEEL.


----------



## distro (Feb 14, 2009)

These aren't carbon ceramic, that is a totally different beast. Interesting concept these brakes are, wonder how well they compare to their metal counterparts.


----------



## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

Mr.Magura said:


> I hate to disappoint you, but that's an old wives tale
> 
> Look further south in Europe my friend.
> 
> Magura


Hey man, when I was in Santa Cruz I met two Danish girls from Aarhus who were hitch-hiking through the state. When they looked at my bikes in the back, she said, "oooh you're must be into downhill" with a cute smile and wide eyes and all her Danish accent.

What are the odds?

(so you're saying when I try your brakes you won't have fine Danish women serving our end of the day dinner?)



RustyIron said:


> I stand corrected. That guy runs a great company that makes a wonderful product and consumers are beating down the door of his apartment to get their hands on these rotors and "kickstarter" is a great business plan used by many successful companies that employ thousands of people.


I took out the eye roll emoticon from your statement and now it reads much more truthfully. Sorry man, but your sarcasm isn't carrying you too far here. Try being a little bit more optimistic. You aren't saving anyone from anything by being so scathing, especially yourself.


----------



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

This is very interesting 
Even if they werent so light just the heat dissipation characteristics would be worth it


----------



## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

ehigh said:


> I took out the eye roll emoticon from your statement and now it reads much more truthfully. Sorry man, but your sarcasm isn't carrying you too far here.


Thanks, Fanboy, I don't need the support of you or your cadre of little friends.

I shined the light of truth on this "Phantom Rotor" manufacturer. He runs his "business" out of his apartment, none of his claimed "authorized dealers" actually exist, he has no product to sell, and he's looking for donations.

Are you really his BFF, or are you just talk? How much money have YOU donated to his cause?

There is one cold, hard fact of which you seem to be unaware. There are two kinds of people in this world: the talkers and the doers. The "Big Talkers" are a dime a dozen, and they're all just one year away or one more cash infusion away from "making the bigtime."

To show that I'm not a complete cold-hearted cynic, I will humbly retract my comments as soon as he starts shipping a real product, let's say just a hundred units that last on consumers' bikes for more than 6 months or 600 miles. Is that a fair test? To be honest, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting. But if the day ever comes when you write a review for the "Phantom Rotors," I'll be one of the first ones to read it. Until that day, be well.


----------



## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

Man lighten up. All you're doing is leaving scathing remarks, and for what? It's hard to get business like this rolling. Go for it and shoot him down. I understand that you wouldn't invest in it. Neither have I. But how do you expect industry innovation when there is such tight competition?


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

distro said:


> These aren't carbon ceramic, that is a totally different beast. Interesting concept these brakes are, wonder how well they compare to their metal counterparts.


They are exactly carbon ceramic 

And no, I'm not guessing here, that's knowledge.

Magura


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> And no, I'm not guessing here, that's knowledge.
> 
> Magura


would you kindly send some Fedex overnight i could use it..


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

mazspeed said:


> You have a set? Pictures.


I have a carbon ceramic brake yes, but it is one I made like a year ago.

Look further back in this thread for a couple of pics. There is a thread about it somewhere as well, with more pics and some thermographic images.

Mine is though a bit different, and the cost was a wee bit high for most peoples taste. As I recall, the material cost of the rotor and a set of pads, was like 3,000$.

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

WarBoom said:


> This is very interesting
> Even if they werent so light just the heat dissipation characteristics would be worth it


Back when I made mine, I didn't do much for the sake of saving weight, as my aim was to get more power, and to eliminate fading.

As I recall, mine ended up around 95g for a 203mm rotor.

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

ehigh said:


> Hey man, when I was in Santa Cruz I met two Danish girls from Aarhus who were hitch-hiking through the state. When they looked at my bikes in the back, she said, "oooh you're must be into downhill" with a cute smile and wide eyes and all her Danish accent.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> (so you're saying when I try your brakes you won't have fine Danish women serving our end of the day dinner?)


LOL! Well, the odds are not good for that to happen twice 

Fine Danish women are few and far between, They do exist though. I have one, and I know another guy who also has one 

Regarding RustyIron, just ignore him. He has no clue what he is talking about, and obviously forgot to take his pills.

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

nvphatty said:


> would you kindly send some Fedex overnight i could use it..


Naah, I just made one for myself for fun.

If the Illinois company get this off the ground, they will also bring this into a completely different price bracket. 
They expect to sell rotors for like 100$, mine cost like 3000$ for the material alone (rotor and pads).

Magura


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> Magura


I was referring to the knowledge.....2nd thought


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

nvphatty said:


> I was referring to the knowledge.....2nd thought


LOL!

I'm still a bit slow, only on my second cup of coffee this morning.

Magura


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> LOL!
> 
> I'm still a bit slow, only on my second cup of coffee this morning.
> 
> Magura


just home from work and bedtime for me...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

drbelleville said:


> Just to chime in, I am not sure what happened to them, yet Fibre-Lyte of the UK offered carbon brake discs around 2008. Maybe some of our UK friends might be able to shed some light on these. I do not know if they were for show or not. What I do know is that I do not see them on their catalog anymore.


As I recall, they never got it off the ground.

Back then I believe the reason was the cost, as they tried to do it the same way as Honeywell (and yours truly did).

As I recall, it worked well though.

Magura


----------



## distro (Feb 14, 2009)

Mr.Magura said:


> They are exactly carbon ceramic
> 
> And no, I'm not guessing here, that's knowledge.
> 
> Magura


They use carbon, and ceramic materials.. But are not made the same as carbon ceramic road discs. Those are made with loose not wolven carbon fiber form what I have seen. Just was trying to point out this is a different process..


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

distro said:


> They use carbon, and ceramic materials.. But are not made the same as carbon ceramic road discs. Those are made with loose not wolven carbon fiber form what I have seen. Just was trying to point out this is a different process..


You can have carbon ceramic (CSIC) in just about any form.

I have so far seen random fiber, UD, something in between the two, Textreme style , and so forth. 
In my experience, the big difference is rather the SIC component, than the layup schedule of the carbon.

Magura


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Backed one set of this Siccc rotor,hope it would be nicer than my hope floating disc and twice as light.

Cant wait to get it now,but still have to wait until 2013 JAN.


----------



## AaGro (Mar 7, 2012)

Magura
You seem to have had a few chats with the people working on this. Any chance you might get them to chime in here? I for one think this idea has a lot of merit and would be interested in hearing about compatibility across braking platforms, and their strategy for pads. 
thanks,
AaRon

BTW -to the grouchy guy: starting a business in your apartment or garage and driving it to the revenue generating stage is not a negative thing, it is hugely positive and the longer you stay small and lean, the better. Think abouth the google garage - a rented garage (not even the house) in Menlo Park.


----------



## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

AaGro said:


> BTW -to the grouchy guy: starting a business in your apartment or garage and driving it to the revenue generating stage is not a negative thing, it is hugely positive and the longer you stay small and lean, the better. Think abouth the google garage - a rented garage (not even the house) in Menlo Park.


Not only is not a negative thing, it's how most people start businesses. The guy is obviously completly clueless, and was not worth debating. Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

jos3ph4ever said:


> Backed one set of this Siccc rotor,hope it would be nicer than my hope floating disc and twice as light.
> 
> Cant wait to get it now,but still have to wait until 2013 JAN.


If they are anything near the one I made, which I am fairly sure they are, you can look forward to improvement pretty much in any aspect.

I run mine in a Hope M4, which seems to work rather well.

I will though move it over to try in on my Zee.

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

AaGro said:


> Magura
> You seem to have had a few chats with the people working on this. Any chance you might get them to chime in here? I for one think this idea has a lot of merit and would be interested in hearing about compatibility across braking platforms, and their strategy for pads.
> thanks,
> AaRon


The guy I have been chatting a bit with, already reads this topic.

To be honest, I would also think twice before joining this topic as the manufacturer.
All the hear-say and religion this is up against, makes for a bumpy ride at best.

Add to that all the self proclaimed experts on composite friction materials (hey they most likely saw F1 on tv). 

Just look at the thread I posted about my brake, and I don't even sell anything 

Magura


----------



## Bataivah (Feb 19, 2011)

mazspeed said:


> Not only is not a negative thing, it's how most people start businesses. The guy is obviously completly clueless, and was not worth debating. Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


I'll be happy to buy something made in USA for a change. At least until it gets outsourced
and a price drop.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> If they are anything near the one I made, which I am fairly sure they are, you can look forward to improvement pretty much in any aspect.
> 
> I run mine in a Hope M4, which seems to work rather well.
> 
> ...


I will run mine with hope tech x2 that currently run with hope floating rotor that loosen for the rear disc after 4months use only..

With this SiCCC material i think they will perform better than floating disc even they are made into one piece,is it Mr.Magura?

Does ur rotor bend during long decents?


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

jos3ph4ever said:


> I will run mine with hope tech x2 that currently run with hope floating rotor that loosen for the rear disc after 4months use only..
> 
> With this SiCCC material i think they will perform better than floating disc even they are made into one piece,is it Mr.Magura?
> 
> Does ur rotor bend during long decents?


Yes they will probably perform better than a floating Hope rotor. I would sure expect so.
Let's see. Now they have plenty of backers, so there is going to be a pretty hefty production. I look forward to see what they made of it.

My rotor is as straight as it was when made. That's the way it will stay 
Mine will survive 400C permanently, with no ill effects.

As I understand the process they are using, those rotors should have approx. the same properties regarding warping and oxidation.

Magura


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> Yes they will probably perform better than a floating Hope rotor. I would sure expect so.
> Let's see. Now they have plenty of backers, so there is going to be a pretty hefty production. I look forward to see what they made of it.
> 
> My rotor is as straight as it was when made. That's the way it will stay
> ...


Great to hear that from you.

The project already funded,just wait the date end and they will start making them,luckily i backed earlier if not many of them already sold out.

400c is very hot,i dont think bike brakes can create that heat to spoiled it right?

What inpired you to make this rotor by yourself?$3000 is expensive but it is unique i know.


----------



## Katz (Jan 29, 2012)

I backed them for a pair of two-piece rotors with color choice. I'm a casual rider so extra 10 grams won't bother me


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

jos3ph4ever said:


> Great to hear that from you.
> 
> The project already funded,just wait the date end and they will start making them,luckily i backed earlier if not many of them already sold out.
> 
> ...


It will be hard to maintain 400C on a bike, even on the front.

The short answer: because I could 

I have made composite brakes for performance cars in the past, so it seemed natural to make one for a bike as well.
Yes that is a fair pile of dough, but the first of something will always turn expensive.

The composite brakes I made for cars, were like 20,000$ for a pair for the front end, so relatively speaking, 3,000$ is not too bad, especially for a single piece run.
Keep in mind that this is raw material cost, thus not really commercially interesting.

Magura


----------



## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

I'm going to back them as well shortly. I was waiting like a knucklehead for others to do it first


----------



## Bataivah (Feb 19, 2011)

Well, if I had an extra $150 I would get in on it.


----------



## lml427 (May 13, 2008)

Found: Kettle Cycles' 40g SICCC Carbon Ceramic Disc Brake Rotors! - Bike Rumor


----------



## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

I got in on this early. I think I was the 5th or 6th backer for a set of 160mm SFL's. I'm excited to see how these come out, and I'll do a full write up on them when they arrive.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Great comunication from Kettle.
I couldn't find any reference to thickness of their rotors either on their site or posts in here, so I asked them, I got response in less than an hour. 
Just in case someone had the same question, 1.9 mm I was told by Aaron.


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Very interested in this, but I run Hope V2 brakes with 183mm rotors. The V2's require a slightly larger track surface for the calliper to clamp onto. The 2 piece rotor looks like it has a deeper track but they are only making them in 180mm sizes, but I imagine the extra 3mm won't make much difference.


----------



## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

ruscle said:


> Very interested in this, but I run Hope V2 brakes with 183mm rotors. The V2's require a slightly larger track surface for the calliper to clamp onto. The 2 piece rotor looks like it has a deeper track but they are only making them in 180mm sizes, but I imagine the extra 3mm won't make much difference.


Not true, only issue would be the 2 piece. I have run the V2 and now the V4 and they all run the same rotors as the rest. It should work, given they work for all other normal rotors as well. Only the vented won't work.


----------



## PSICODROMO (Apr 1, 2012)

but the carbon rotors only brake at very high temperature


----------



## wallstreet (Jul 27, 2012)

PSICODROMO said:


> but the carbon rotors only brake at very high temperature


Is it really necessary?

Do top mtb'ers have this kit? Often the answer is no


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

PSICODROMO said:


> but the carbon rotors only brake at very high temperature


May I recommend you do a bit of research before throwing out claims?

The above claim is as far from the facts as possible.

I happen to have worked with designing composite friction systems, and have even made a composite brake for my bike. My experience, and just about any substantiated fact you can find, says pretty much the opposite.

One thing I often wonder, is why people find it a must, to claim knowledge, about things they have no idea about?

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

wallstreet said:


> Is it really necessary?
> 
> Do top mtb'ers have this kit? Often the answer is no


Top mtb'ers don't have this sort of technology yet, as so far the only person or company, I know of that have been willing to spend the amount of cash it takes, till these guys came along, has been me.

Magura


----------



## wallstreet (Jul 27, 2012)

It will be interesting if weight is reduced & benefits of stopping power & low heat - from what you posted earlier sounds a future... If the price is right for the masses, I doubt it for now... I can see DH & Enduro riders probably utilizing its stopping power. Like another topic I read it's not going to add seconds of value in a straightforward measure yet. Unless weight is significant. Interesting anyway. 

Ridley came out with new hidden integrated brakes on their top range race road cycles and thus futurism is what I enjoy.


----------



## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

so i guess they don't warp so no need to true? I would like to try out a 180 just because it looks so friggin cool


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

wallstreet said:


> It will be interesting if weight is reduced & benefits of stopping power & low heat - from what you posted earlier sounds a future... If the price is right for the masses, I doubt it for now... I can see DH & Enduro riders probably utilizing its stopping power. Like another topic I read it's not going to add seconds of value in a straightforward measure yet. Unless weight is significant. Interesting anyway.
> 
> Ridley came out with new hidden integrated brakes on their top range race road cycles and thus futurism is what I enjoy.


I'd say 100$ is pretty much a reasonable price, at least low enough to bring it down in the range that most would be able to consider.

The real interesting benefit, besides low weight and more power, is very low static friction.

That sure offers a benefit you can see on the stop watch, as it allows you to brake harder, with much higher threshold for the wheel to lock up.

As I mentioned earlier, I sure like mine, and this would be one of the real nice features, that I have gotten used to enjoy, and would be a benefit in a race situation as well.

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

natrat said:


> so i guess they don't warp so no need to true? I would like to try out a 180 just because it looks so friggin cool


To true ceramics????

That sounds like a very bad idea 

Magura


----------



## AaGro (Mar 7, 2012)

wallstreet said:


> It will be interesting if weight is reduced & benefits of stopping power & low heat - from what you posted earlier sounds a future... If the price is right for the masses, I doubt it for now... I can see DH & Enduro riders probably utilizing its stopping power. Like another topic I read it's not going to add seconds of value in a straightforward measure yet. Unless weight is significant. Interesting anyway.
> 
> Ridley came out with new hidden integrated brakes on their top range race road cycles and thus futurism is what I enjoy.


@ $70 for the two piece it is less than buying replacement rotors for my Formulas. I think I am most interested in long term durability which is (at least in theory) one of the big advantages of this set-up. Second place for me is overheating of break rotors - rare for me as a recreational rider but it does happen. The weight change is nice, but to tell the truth I'd rather have the 2-piece than the SFL - I just think they look cool as hell. And as of yet outside of my experience is the very low stiction point of this material - there are a lot of potential benefits to this if the learning curve isn't too steep, and if the stiction point isn't so low that you can't lock-up a wheel when you want/need to..


----------



## wallstreet (Jul 27, 2012)

@aAgaro 

It's a very interesting read as I just finished reading about it! 40g wow, very interesting. Affordable too. Curious to hear test trails come on MTB mags & bikeradar


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

AaGro said:


> @ And as of yet outside of my experience is the very low stiction point of this material - there are a lot of potential benefits to this if the learning curve isn't too steep, and if the stiction point isn't so low that you can't lock-up a wheel when you want/need to..


Mine has no problem locking up the wheel, if I want to, there is just much less risk of locking up the wheel, when breaking hard.
I would expect those brakes are working more or less the same way.

Keep in mind that you actually have more power, so the situation where I have seen the benefit, is when breaking hard, with uneven grip. Usually you'd have to brake less hard, to avoid locking up the wheel, when braking under such conditions.

Also once you learn to control it, you will find that if the wheel stops rolling when braking across a rut or the like, the wheel will start rolling again once traction is restored.
This takes some getting used to, as normal response to such an incident, is to ease off on the lever quite a bit, to get the wheel rolling.

For a racer, this could very well save a significant amount of time.
I am no racer however, but I like that it saves me a nasty situation from time to time, and brings confidence to breaking harder than usual.

Magura


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

*V2 compatibility with 2 piece rotors*



mazspeed said:


> Not true, only issue would be the 2 piece. I have run the V2 and now the V4 and they all run the same rotors as the rest. It should work, given they work for all other normal rotors as well. Only the vented won't work.


I emailed them about the compatibility with the 2 piece rotor and the V2 calliper's and Aaron said it will all fit fine and there isn't an issue. The rivet on the 2 piece does look very small and quite far into the actual structure of the rotor, so should prove not to clash with the calliper of the V2. I think I will be backing them for a pair of 180mm 2 piece rotors. :thumbsup:

Quite excited now and will be saving over 200g in weight. Main thing is gaining more modulation and power (Like I need that with Hope V2's!!)


----------



## Wasmachineman NL (Jan 31, 2012)

Mr.Magura, Your like the Bob Page of brakes, I LOVE your modded brakes and other stuff, DIY all the way indeed!


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

Wasmachineman NL said:


> Mr.Magura, Your like the Bob Page of brakes, I LOVE your modded brakes and other stuff, DIY all the way indeed!


Thanks a lot. :thumbsup:

Now could you please enlighten me, Who is Bob Page?

A Google search revealed the choice between a science fiction character, a sports caster, and a blues musician.

Magura


----------



## Wasmachineman NL (Jan 31, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> Thanks a lot. :thumbsup:
> 
> Now could you please enlighten me, Who is Bob Page?
> 
> ...


Bob Page is the leader of Majestic 12 in Deus Ex, He was also a major power behind nano-tech/augmentation in that game, Read the DX Wiki page about him: Bob Page - Deus Ex Wiki


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

Wasmachineman NL said:


> Bob Page is the leader of Majestic 12 in Deus Ex, He was also a major power behind nano-tech/augmentation in that game, Read the DX Wiki page about him: Bob Page - Deus Ex Wiki


So now I just have to take over the world, using brakes as a step stone....

Intriguing thought 

Magura


----------



## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't have the moolah to get these... though I'm curious how well these SiCCC rotors will perform on a fully loaded MTB tandem.


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

StanleyJ said:


> I don't have the moolah to get these... though I'm curious how well these SiCCC rotors will perform on a fully loaded MTB tandem.


Just lay off the afterburners : D

Ps, I need jet brakes on my bicycle too


----------



## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

ruscle said:


> I emailed them about the compatibility with the 2 piece rotor and the V2 calliper's and Aaron said it will all fit fine and there isn't an issue. The rivet on the 2 piece does look very small and quite far into the actual structure of the rotor, so should prove not to clash with the calliper of the V2. I think I will be backing them for a pair of 180mm 2 piece rotors. :thumbsup:
> 
> Quite excited now and will be saving over 200g in weight. Main thing is gaining more modulation and power (Like I need that with Hope V2's!!)


Thanks for that. That was one of my sticking points. Will be talking to them this week about an order. :thumbsup:


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

Deerhill said:


> Ps, I need jet brakes on my bicycle too


Well, that's a bit more complicated, as those in question here, are not quite the same. 

Magura


----------



## shehateme (Mar 21, 2009)

*Re:*



gotfish8 said:


> check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.
> 
> Wonder what the pads will be made from?


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

shehateme said:


> gotfish8 said:
> 
> 
> > check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.
> ...


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Mr.Magura said:


> Well, that's a bit more complicated, as those in question here, are not quite the same.
> 
> Magura


I figured these were from something really neat like jet, of maybe space shuttle.. Now that I actually read the thread, these mounted to a single crown fork?


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

Deerhill said:


> I figured these were from something really neat like jet, of maybe space shuttle.. Now that I actually read the thread, these mounted to a single crown fork?


Why not?

Magura


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Mr.Magura said:


> Why not?
> 
> Magura


More power and modulation always a nice upgrade, just wondering what fork you have there


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

Deerhill said:


> More power and modulation always a nice upgrade, just wondering what fork you have there


It's a modded Domain 318.

I didn't like the Motion Control much, so built up a speed sensitive system for it.

Magura


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Mr.Magura said:


> It's a modded Domain 318.
> 
> I didn't like the Motion Control much, so built up a speed sensitive system for it.
> 
> Magura


I finally got lucky with rock solid csu, been through 3-4 uppers this year so been holding off the harder riding/braking and that is no fun!


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

Deerhill said:


> I finally got lucky with rock solid csu, been through 3-4 uppers this year so been holding off the harder riding/braking and that is no fun!


Try a Domain then. The Motion Control stinks, but the fork is rock solid, at a small weight penalty though.

I've treated mine pretty bad (hefty carbon brake tests), and to be honest, I worry more about snapping a head tube than the Domain.

On the plus side as well, is that it's super smooth, with a minimum of static friction.

Magura


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Mr.Magura said:


> I've treated mine pretty bad (hefty carbon brake tests), and to be honest, I worry more about snapping a head tube than the Domain.
> 
> On the plus side as well, is that it's super smooth, with a minimum of static friction.
> 
> Magura


That is good to know...I was hoping it was a Vengeance coil getting the brake test beating (been thinking about 27.5 clearance : )


----------



## autodoctor911 (Oct 30, 2012)

Have the Kettle SiCCC rotors been tested by any of the magazine guys, or the independent test guys that chime in on these forums yet?
I think the concept is overdue for introduction to the market, but I thought it would be a lot more expensive. I don't really see how they can be doing these for under a $100. If they are successful, I hope they or somebody else following up on their technology for making inexpensive carbon ceramic rotors applies this to some aftermarket brakes for sports cars. If it can transfer over, they could end up being price competitive with aftermarket upgraded iron disc systems
.
Mr.Magura: Do you know where they found a way to make them that cheap, and do you know if it may be practical for larger applications.


----------



## autodoctor911 (Oct 30, 2012)

Why does everyone keep saying these composite rotors dissipate heat better.

Custom Carbon Ceramic Disc Rotors From Kettle Cycles - COOL! | 29er.. »Cafe

I thought the opposite was true: They are better able to manage the heat, but not by dissipating it, but by resisting heat buildup, and performing well at any temperature up until they are glowing hot.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

autodoctor911 said:


> Why does everyone keep saying these composite rotors dissipate heat better.
> 
> Custom Carbon Ceramic Disc Rotors From Kettle Cycles - COOL! | 29er.. »Cafe
> 
> I thought the opposite was true: They are better able to manage the heat, but not by dissipating it, but by resisting heat buildup, and performing well at any temperature up until they are glowing hot.


Because they do dissipate more heat as temperature increases. 
The same holds true for steel rotors, but they just start fading at some point.

Look up heat dissipation. It is not a linear function of temperature, but a rather steep curve.

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

autodoctor911 said:


> Have the Kettle SiCCC rotors been tested by any of the magazine guys, or the independent test guys that chime in on these forums yet?
> I think the concept is overdue for introduction to the market, but I thought it would be a lot more expensive. I don't really see how they can be doing these for under a $100. If they are successful, I hope they or somebody else following up on their technology for making inexpensive carbon ceramic rotors applies this to some aftermarket brakes for sports cars. If it can transfer over, they could end up being price competitive with aftermarket upgraded iron disc systems
> .
> Mr.Magura: Do you know where they found a way to make them that cheap, and do you know if it may be practical for larger applications.


They claim to have one with my name on it, but let's see.

Keep in mind how little material there is in a 2mm rotor, compared to that of cars. 
That's where you see most of the big cost difference.

When I made mine, I started out with a rotor from a F16, that's why mine turned out a bit pricey.

Magura


----------



## autodoctor911 (Oct 30, 2012)

Ok, so they dissipate more or less heat than Iron at any given temperature?
It has been a while, but I did pass Thermodynamics and Diff.Eq, and I know how heat is transferred, and what the rates are, and could probably even figure out how much longer it would take a carbon rotor to cool off than an iron one from a given temperature, or inversely, how long it would take to heat it up.
What temps are they each running at in a drive cycle test for extreme mountain bike use?
Would the Iron rotors in the same dynomometer test not dissipate heat more quickly?
The advantage of the carbon rotor is that it functions just fine at very high temperatures, at which any material can dissipate heat quicker than at low temperatures.
I have no doubt that the carbon rotors will work better in most conditions, while also saving quite a bit of rotating weight, and lasting much longer.
the only reason heat dissipation could be an issue is that the pads also get hot, and most of their cooling is done by transferring that heat to an Iron rotor that dissipates heat much more quickly than carbon at a given temperature(you don't see many carbon heat sinks do you?).
This could certainly be worked out with cooling fins(heat sink) on the backs of the pads, or a different pad compund that is able to handle the same temperatures as the rotors.
Of course, if the amount of heat generated in the first place is not enough to even affect the pads, then it is not an issue even with current pads, as it seems Kettle has stated, but I think from reading their info, pad wear may be slightly more with the carbon rotors.

As far as the cost being related to the base material cost, I think the most expensive part is forming it together, since you obviously can't just use normal epoxy or ester resins. The carbon fiber, ceramics and silicon carbide shouldn't be that expensive in raw form.

No disrespect on the thermodynamics stuff, just trying to figure out what you mean by dissipates heat better.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

autodoctor911 said:


> Ok, so they dissipate more or less heat than Iron at any given temperature?
> It has been a while, but I did pass Thermodynamics and Diff.Eq, and I know how heat is transferred, and what the rates are, and could probably even figure out how much longer it would take a carbon rotor to cool off than an iron one from a given temperature, or inversely, how long it would take to heat it up.
> What temps are they each running at in a drive cycle test for extreme mountain bike use?
> Would the Iron rotors in the same dynomometer test not dissipate heat more quickly?
> ...


No offense taken, we are just having a discussion 

I can't recall the exact number, but the heat dissipation factor for the carbon, is higher by itself than of polished steel. 
I measured that back then, by thermographic imaging. 
The biggest difference is as you pointed out yourself, that once they get up in temperature, they keep on working, and under those conditions, they offer pretty high dissipation. This could also have been offered to some extend by a steel rotor, but fading and failing will kick in before that happens.

Actually carbon heat sinks exists. This is one of the ways to get a material that has different heat transfer characteristics, depending which direction it goes in the material.
It works rather well, but is super expensive. Some of that effect can be found in certain types of carbon SIC rotors. I utilized that back when building my class A amplifiers, to distribute heat.

Part of the reason the raw material is costly, is the treatment it needs to work.
The other reason things gets expensive, is the amount of time and energy that goes into this stuff.

The pic below shows my carbon SIC brake and the pads. 
I made the pads of carbon SIC with directional heat transfer, and threw in some fins for good measure.

Magura


----------



## autodoctor911 (Oct 30, 2012)

Ah, so they do make carbon heat sinks, you got me there. My point was that generally metals are better at getting rid of heat. Maybe the heat dissipation constant that you found to be higher for carbon was for radiant heat transfer? I think brake rotors cool mainly by conducting heat directly to air, so the radiant heat dissipation is less useful.
I like your SIC pads, with built in heat sink. I didn't even notice them in the picture the first time I looked at it. You were able to machine the rotors and pads from existing aircraft parts?
That setup should have very long life, I would presume. Is the friction coefficient very good cold after they are worn to smooth polished finish on pads and rotor? Or does the material retain a rough texture throughout it's wear?
I worked on a formula SAE car back in 1994, and We tested some of the first carbon/carbon rotors designed for good cold bite. They were made with a rough finish to help initial bite. It worked well, and we actually never wore them smooth from the initial pattern, but we didn't put them to that much use either. The car completed competition that year, and wasn't driven again afterwards. We tore it down to make a much more crude car the next year. We stripped the motor and suspension from a carbon tub car with composite pullrods and single interconected(L&R) front and rear springs to build a steel tube frame car with more conventional 3 spring front and rear. The judges penalized anything exotic and high priced, so we went low tech the next time, including switching back to iron rotors. It was not a well developed car though, and we fared worse the next year, despite fewer cost penalties.


----------



## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

From experience....carbon rotors (and carbon compound break pads as well) on motorcycles work great on the racetrack AFTER they are fully up to operating temperature and kept there. However when not heated to temps they suck and are downright dangerous.


----------



## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

I read through all 5 pages and saw no mention of this and was curious if carbon SIC is a brittle material, or if there are significant concerns of damage or failure over conventional steel rotors in the event of a crash? If they deflect and retain there shape that would be better than bent rotors.


----------



## mrgto (Sep 28, 2008)

^^^^^^
What he said


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

I envision crash failure ... But I'm just making an educated guess, based on what I have seen happen to other composites.

Done right ... This can work well.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

bikeabuser said:


> Done right ... This can work well.


This would be the most educated that's been said about this so far 

Impact that would cause significant damage to a well made composite rotor, would kill a steel rotor as well for sure.
Minor impacts that would make a steel rotor drag like crazy, would cause no damage to a composite rotor.
Mine has seen impact a few times, with no significant damage.

Magura


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

I am so bummed I did not pull the trigger on the these a month ago. 

If anyone in the Vancouver / Squamish / Whistler area is getting a set I would love to check them out on your bike (for a case of beer of course)


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Mr.Magura said:


> This would be the most educated that's been said about this so far
> 
> Impact that would cause significant damage to a well made composite rotor, would kill a steel rotor as well for sure.
> Minor impacts that would make a steel rotor drag like crazy, would cause no damage to a composite rotor.
> ...


I thought this might interest you - yet2.com - Tech of the Week Detail

Waiting for it to catch on in the LED lighting market.


----------



## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

I will take a set of the "Mr.Magura" signature editions please.


----------



## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

i have sic guides on my fishing rods. they are known in fishing to be super hard, resistant to friction and somewhat brittle. as a raw material, its pretty expensive. they resist wear from abrasive stuff such as synthetic braided line.

im not weight weenie, but things like this trickle after a couple of years of wide acceptance. the future looks good.


----------



## autodoctor911 (Oct 30, 2012)

Upon further research, I found that carbon ceramics can have as great as 3 times the thermal conductivity of iron/steel, but that is with complicated nanotube structures. In practice the thermal transfer constant is around 40 W/M K compared to cast iron at 55, and carbon steel at 43, and aluminum at 210. I also noticed stainless steel is really poor at thermal conductivity at around 16. So, stay away from stainless rotors.


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

bikeabuser said:


> I thought this might interest you - yet2.com - Tech of the Week Detail
> 
> Waiting for it to catch on in the LED lighting market.


Thanks for the heads up :thumbsup:

This resembles the solution, I used for thermal management, of the amplifiers I made a few years ago.
It's nice to see the technology gain some momentum though.

Magura


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

autodoctor911 said:


> Upon further research, I found that carbon ceramics can have as great as 3 times the thermal conductivity of iron/steel, but that is with complicated nanotube structures. In practice the thermal transfer constant is around 40 W/M K compared to cast iron at 55, and carbon steel at 43, and aluminum at 210. I also noticed stainless steel is really poor at thermal conductivity at around 16. So, stay away from stainless rotors.


If you look a bit deeper into what happens, with carbon and graphite thermal management materials, you'd see that the above is an over simplified statement.

There are loads of that kind of stuff out there, much of it beats aluminum by far.
For instance you can find a few bits like that in military aircraft electronics.

Magura


----------



## autodoctor911 (Oct 30, 2012)

Yes, oversimplified. that 40 W/M K was taken from a manufacturer of SIC rotors for cars, and I'm sure there is much variation from one design to another there. I now know that the carbon composite materials can be formulated to have greater heat conductivity even than that of aluminum, while still having a higher specific heat(takes more energy to heat up). Pretty amazing, I never knew heat energy could be conducted anisotropically(direction dependent) before entering this discussion. It is hard to imagine exactly how this might work. At some microscopic level is heat energy acting like a wave? I am curious now to find out more,


----------



## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

autodoctor911 said:


> Yes, oversimplified. that 40 W/M K was taken from a manufacturer of SIC rotors for cars, and I'm sure there is much variation from one design to another there. I now know that the carbon composite materials can be formulated to have greater heat conductivity even than that of aluminum, while still having a higher specific heat(takes more energy to heat up). Pretty amazing, I never knew heat energy could be conducted anisotropically(direction dependent) before entering this discussion. It is hard to imagine exactly how this might work. At some microscopic level is heat energy acting like a wave? I am curious now to find out more,


I have seen big variations in conductivity, even between similar manufacturing methods.
I too have spent some time playing around with carbon multi-wall nanotubes, which can sport some of the same thermal properties, but are easier to deal with.

As far as I recall, all energy is wave based.

Once you start thinking about it, this sort of properties are fascinating. 
Coupled with fair mechanical properties, it opens up for many possibilities.
......and it always leaves people puzzled, when you make something that utilizes some of the potential of the material 

Magura


----------



## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

What's the status on the roll-out of these rotors? 
The funding goal was met on December 3, and the only change on the web site is the removal of all the "authorized dealers." 

Just curious.


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Here's the lastest:

Kettle Cycles' SICCC Carbon-Ceramic Disc Brake Rotors Done, Almost Shipping - Bike Rumor


----------



## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

My Kettle rotors showed up today. They look awesome. They won't be getting any miles on them for a couple of weeks, but I'll update when they do. They came in nice packaging, and the build quality looks solid.


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Size? Weight? Location, perhaps? I'm in Europe wondering where mine are...


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

dubthang said:


> My Kettle rotors showed up today. They look awesome. They won't be getting any miles on them for a couple of weeks, but I'll update when they do. They came in nice packaging, and the build quality looks solid.


Were you on the first or second batch?
I'm on the second one and as Giantdale, wondering if I'll get them anytime soon.
I've learned that nobody got a shipping notice.


----------



## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

These are 160's. I haven't weighted them yet since my scale is in my basement, and I'm being lazy. Also, I'm in Portland, Maine.

Edit: These are from the first batch. I didn't get a shipping notice, but I did get an email to confirm my order and addy. They were shipped Priority Mail.


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

Received mine today also, TX USA, first batch. Ditto on the very professional looking packaging. Will weigh tomorrow before installation. The rotors will get a couple hours of being put through their paces tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Keep waiting and waiting my SiCCC.because kettle work on rotor more than tracking numbers so they do not provide all buyer tracking number one by one..


----------



## autodoctor911 (Oct 30, 2012)

I think these rotors are going to be great, I am ready to try some. I see they are charging quite a bit more for the larger sizes on the one piece rotors, and I don't see any of the cheaper 2 piece ones available for ordering.

I wonder if they perform well enough that I could use the smaller sizes(160F,140R) to replace larger steel rotors(180f, 160r).


----------



## Katz (Jan 29, 2012)

Does anybody know what kind of pads (metallic or organic) you're supposed to use on these rotors?


----------



## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

Katz said:


> Does anybody know what kind of pads (metallic or organic) you're supposed to use on these rotors?


Frequently Asked Questions


----------



## Katz (Jan 29, 2012)

Cool, thanks!


----------



## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

I didn't get in on the kickstarter program and I'm wondering if now that they have acheived their initial goal and started production how soon before these will be available to the rest of us?


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

I couldn't find info on the site. How thick are these rotors?


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

1.9 mm!


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Thanks for the info, I typed my question wrong.. Was wondering how large a pad can be used?


----------



## fstrchld (Feb 25, 2013)

those look legit


----------



## Gilarider (Jul 13, 2009)

Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.

Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then. 

My siccc rotor review is bad. They are coming off after two rides. They feel like they give about 50% power braking compared to the avids I had on there, and they have not gotten better as I ride them in. I don't know if they heat up and get better because I didn't take them on any long downhills, but I was dragging them constantly on what there was to keep my speed in in check and it didn't change anything. Even if it did, I would still take them off.

I bedded them in according to their directions, I tried all the different pads I have(shimano metal and resin, koolstop, ebc gold) and none of them worked anywhere near how they work on steel. 

I would guess you would have to size up two sizes with the carbon to get equal brake power, and then you are losing the weight advantage. They might work ok on a cross bike with 32c knobbies, but I don't have one of those with disks to try them on. 

I thought they were a cool idea, the construction seems good, and they are true and laterally stiff. They might work for somebody, but not me.


----------



## adamkob32 (Oct 1, 2012)

Anybody try these in wet or snow conditions yet? Do they still squeal like the steel rotors when they get damp?


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

Gilarider said:


> Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.
> 
> Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then.
> 
> ...


Well thats dicouraging. sure it isn't a bed in issue? I know you said you tried several different pads, but did you do several rides on just one set of pads? if this is the case no one is going to use them.

I just read on the FB page that they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. I wonder if this is a cash back gurantee?


----------



## joshuagore (Oct 15, 2009)

If you are having problems with please contact us via our support system. 
Login

We want you to be as happy as we are with SiCCC rotors.

For reference this video covers burn in. Although we can't cover every thread on every forum we can handle problems through our ticket system. 
Thanks,
Josh


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

I just got an update on the 2 piece rotors. Looks like they had to change the design due to a legal reason?

Either way they're flat out ugly now. They look like mid 90's Camaro wheels


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Gilarider said:


> Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.
> 
> Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then.
> 
> ...


I'm not questioning your tests as I don't have them, 
Did you use new pads? I ask because I made the mistake one time of swaping bwtween a magura and formula rotor right before a ride. Let me just say braking power was at 50% of best most of the ride. I had to pull the pads and put new ones in and my brake power returned.


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

Gilarider said:


> Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.
> 
> Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then.
> 
> ...


I'll take that junk off your hands. $75. What's your paypal?


----------



## Katz (Jan 29, 2012)

Ilikebmx999 said:


> I just got an update on the 2 piece rotors. Looks like they had to change the design due to a legal reason?
> 
> Either way they're flat out ugly now. They look like mid 90's Camaro wheels


Well that's disappointing. I backed them for a pair of 180mm 2-pc rotors. I can understand why they chose to get rid of rivets, but I too don't care for the new spoke design and I was hoping they'd offer them in darker metallic blue that somewhat matches blue anodizing, instead of that baby blue/turquoise.

I just sent them a request to send me a pair of 1-pc rotors instead.


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

santacruzflyer said:


> I'll take that junk off your hands. $75. What's your paypal?


I'll give you $76.13 and I'll give you my old Avid G2 rotor I use for brake bleeds..


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Gilarider said:


> Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.
> 
> Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then.
> 
> ...


Post a pic of the rotor that is not working too well.


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

$76.15 and I'll go with you on rides and slow your whining ass down.



ziscwg said:


> I'll give you $76.13 and I'll give you my old Avid G2 rotor I use for brake bleeds..


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Katz said:


> Well that's disappointing. I backed them for a pair of 180mm 2-pc rotors. I can understand why they chose to get rid of rivets, but I too don't care for the new spoke design and I was hoping they'd offer them in darker metallic blue that somewhat matches blue anodizing, instead of that baby blue/turquoise.
> 
> I just sent them a request to send me a pair of 1-pc rotors instead.


I was thinking of doing the same.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Anybody that tell me,is it the braking power increase after using this rotors?


----------



## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Gilarider said:


> My siccc rotor review is bad. They are coming off after two rides. They feel like they give about 50% power braking compared to the avids I had on there, and they have not gotten better as I ride them in. I don't know if they heat up and get better because I didn't take them on any long downhills, but I was dragging them constantly on what there was to keep my speed in in check and it didn't change anything. Even if it did, I would still take them off.
> 
> I bedded them in according to their directions, I tried all the different pads I have(shimano metal and resin, koolstop, ebc gold) and none of them worked anywhere near how they work on steel.
> 
> ...


I have the exact same experience. I used new sintered pads on my Formula R1 brakes, and I followed the burn in described in the video. Braking peformance actually went down as the rotors burned in. It feels like massive brake pad fade, there's very little friction. Pretty much the same experience I've had with various alu discs in the past, regardless of their coating.

I later wiped the rotors clean with alcohol, and the rag came away pitch black even after several cleanings. I guess this is either carbon from the disc, pad material, or possibly carbonized pad material (faded pads).

After the cleaning, I went out for a test ride again. But this time I also brought a water bottle. I still got no braking power. But spraying a bit of water on, dramaticly increased the friction, as one would expect when brake pads have carbonized. The drawback was a howling noise so loud that people a hundred yards down the street turned to see how was flaying live cats. As soon as the discs dried, the poor performace was back.

I'll try Goodridge sintered pads next. If that doesn't work, I'll use the discs as trivets and call it a fun, albeit expensive, experiment.

What I don't understand is, why do the rotors need a visible layer of pad material transfer, if the SiC is supposed to supply the friction? Steel discs do not have a tick layer of pad material deposited on them.

Anyways, I started a ticked on the Kettle website, but I have yet to hear back from them.

Ole.


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

santacruzflyer said:


> $76.15 and I'll go with you on rides and slow your whining ass down.


OK, $76.25 is my final offer and I will throw in some warm beer that has been in the pantry for 6 months.


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Ole said:


> I have the exact same experience. I used new sintered pads on my Formula R1 brakes, and I followed the burn in described in the video. Braking peformance actually went down as the rotors burned in. It feels like massive brake pad fade, there's very little friction. Pretty much the same experience I've had with various alu discs in the past, regardless of their coating.
> 
> I later wiped the rotors clean with alcohol, and the rag came away pitch black even after several cleanings. I guess this is either carbon from the disc, pad material, or possibly carbonized pad material (faded pads).
> 
> ...


Bummer, I have to wonder what is going on as it sounds like you didn't have any contaminates or glazed pads.

It's not like the Formula R1's are weak brakes either.


----------



## tooclosetosee (Aug 2, 2011)

Bummer, I was hoping to hear good things.


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

I would hold out on final judgement just yet. This is a new product/technology that doesn't break in like the old. I am going to post up a review after tomorrow's ride, which will cover eight hours over 4 rides and two sets of pads; my results differ.


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

Crap, I'm out. There has never been beer here that lasted 6 hrs much less 6 months



ziscwg said:


> OK, $76.25 is my final offer and I will throw in some warm beer that has been in the pantry for 6 months.


----------



## Gilarider (Jul 13, 2009)

santacruzflyer said:


> I would hold out on final judgement just yet. This is a new product/technology that doesn't break in like the old. I am going to post up a review after tomorrow's ride, which will cover eight hours over 4 rides and two sets of pads; my results differ.


Yeah, let us know if you got them working and how. I am thinking of trying a new set of pads and just one rotor so I don't kill myself on rides.


----------



## Gilarider (Jul 13, 2009)

They sent out an email saying that rotors were sent out with kerosene still on them. They gave instructions on how to get rid of it. I will see if it works.


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

I was going to to do a big write up on how I got these to work, but received an email from Kettle Cycles last nite explaining the problem with bedding in. Turns out a cleaning solution used after the last step of production was not completely removed, resulting in a longer bedding in period while the contaminant was removed. That would explain my experience. After six hours of white knuckle squeezing on the brake levers, three on sintered pads and three on half used organic, my discs are working great. The discs feel on par with the Hope floating they replaced, good power with excellent modulation. After the 6 hour break in period, I had two one hour rides with the organic pads. On those two rides, I rode without even thinking about the brakes. The brakes are deathly silent. Incredibly silent. There is no noise as you roll along, and when you squeeze the levers, the same no noise. There is a slight sanding sound when the brakes are applied, but is completely obscured with the littlest of trail noise. Where I am at with the discs right now, with them working as well as my previous discs, and being completely silent, I am more than satisfied. I feel they will get better in the next few rides. Going to pull them off and let them sit in the sun Saturday and use some new organics. Yea the 6 hour break in was kind of long, and the first hour was actually a little harrowing. That first hour though, showed me I was able to ride through some corners and sections with a lot more speed than I was carrying before.


----------



## dozerdog (Mar 5, 2007)

I have been riding these rotors for about a month now on CX disc bike with Avid BB7 SL's and like most here was experiencing power less than the original steel rotors. The weather here in Chicago and my schedule has only allowed me to get road rides in so far on the rotors or about 250 miles or so. I did not place new pads in the brakes when the swap was made just swapped rotors and began the bed in process. After each ride the braking power has gotten noticibly better and I would say that I am at about 90% of the steel rotor braking power right now. I don't know this for a fact but if I was riding a MTB where braking is more frequent and more demanding I feel that the rotors would have acheived full power sooner. Again I am on a avid mechanical disc brake bike with one pad pushing against another not pinching like hydros and I have 90% of what I had with steel rotors. i look forward to rriding these on my Shimano Xt's on the race rig.

I will be patient with this new tech and have high hopes of riding these rotors now and on all my bikes in the future. 30 day money back and a 3-year crash replacement these guys want to do good by their product and by their customers!


----------



## Katz (Jan 29, 2012)

Ilikebmx999 said:


> I was thinking of doing the same.


Got the reply. They'll change mine to 1-pc rotors no problem. I decided to get a pair of 160mm for my DJ bike, instead of 180mm for my AM-ish bike as I originally intended.


----------



## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Ole said:


> I have the exact same experience. I used new sintered pads on my Formula R1 brakes, and I followed the burn in described in the video. Braking peformance actually went down as the rotors burned in. It feels like massive brake pad fade, there's very little friction. Pretty much the same experience I've had with various alu discs in the past, regardless of their coating.
> 
> I later wiped the rotors clean with alcohol, and the rag came away pitch black even after several cleanings. I guess this is either carbon from the disc, pad material, or possibly carbonized pad material (faded pads).
> 
> ...


Ok. now I have cleaned the rotors with acetone, baked them in the oven at 100c for 30 minutes to get rid of kerosene from production, and put on Kool Stop organic pads. My original Formula sintered pads were just chewed to bits by the discs for some reason, and left a thick layer of brake dust on the discs.

Did a short brake in session friday, and went for a short rid with my 9 year old yesterday, and now I actually have brakes. I'd say I now have around 70% the power I have from steel brakes, but it's getting better all the time. Before, I got 5% power max. I guess I now have good enough brakes to dare to do a real ride, and that should hopefully improve things further.


----------



## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

Did the email that went out about kerosene say anything about them fixing the issue on their end? Seems like a real screwup on their end, which makes it a lot harder to figure out if these things are legit. 

I did notice they now have pad recommendations on their website, but I didn't see anything about cleaning rotors.

More reviews please!


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Just received today from Malaysia..the one I installed on rear seem like have a little bend..I think have to find a long descent trail to burn in and see is it will be better..


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I just got a shipping notice, my second batch rotors are on the way.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

jos3ph4ever said:


> Just received today from Malaysia..the one I installed on rear seem like have a little bend..I think have to find a long descent trail to burn in and see is it will be better..


Problem solved after reinstalled the rotor..


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Ole said:


> Ok. now I have cleaned the rotors with acetone, baked them in the oven at 100c for 30 minutes to get rid of kerosene from production, and put on Kool Stop organic pads. My original Formula sintered pads were just chewed to bits by the discs for some reason, and left a thick layer of brake dust on the discs.
> 
> Did a short brake in session friday, and went for a short rid with my 9 year old yesterday, and now I actually have brakes. I'd say I now have around 70% the power I have from steel brakes, but it's getting better all the time. Before, I got 5% power max. I guess I now have good enough brakes to dare to do a real ride, and that should hopefully improve things further.


Hi Ole,

Is it acetone called nail polish remover?

How do you clean with acetone?how many acetone need to clean it?

Can you give me the tutorial about how to clean and bake it?

I am facing same problem too...4km decent still cant burned in my 160s..and my avid elixr 5 also boil...

Joseph


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Acetone should be pure for cleaning of brake rotors. Nail polish removers contain beside acetone also oils that shouldn't come in contact with rotors.


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

@jos3ph4eve: how long was the shipping time in your case?


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

giantdale said:


> @jos3ph4eve: how long was the shipping time in your case?


Around 10days.:thumbsup:


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Nice, thank you!


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

giantdale said:


> Acetone should be pure for cleaning of brake rotors. Nail polish removers contain beside acetone also oils that shouldn't come in contact with rotors.


Don know where to buy acetone here..or I think just pull out the rotor and put under hot sun will be better?i scare the acetone will harm my rotors..will it?


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Aceton will for sure not harm the rotors. Hot sun will not help your case either


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

So which mean I still have to find that acetone and clean it then bake it in micro oven to get them working right?


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

I don't have any experience yet, my rotors are in the mail (happy!). But I use either acetone or isopropyl alcohol for steel rotors with good results. No microwave ovens, though. Keep in mind, acetone has a 56deg Celsius boilng point-that is very low!


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

giantdale said:


> I don't have any experience yet, my rotors are in the mail (happy!). But I use either acetone or isopropyl alcohol for steel rotors with good results. No microwave ovens, though. Keep in mind, acetone has a 56deg Celsius boilng point-that is very low!


With the low boiling point mean I can clean with acetone and baked under hot sun enough?


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Means it will evaporate quickly and is very flammable as well-caution. You use it to dissolve the residue from your rotors and remove it with swipes. Just soaking rotors and leave them to dry will not do it.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Just use isopropyl alcohol. Theres probably some in your bathroom cabinet.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

giantdale said:


> Means it will evaporate quickly and is very flammable as well-caution. You use it to dissolve the residue from your rotors and remove it with swipes. Just soaking rotors and leave them to dry will not do it.


Ok,will find that acetone at my nearest paint shop or hardware shop...
Hope it will be fine..

Btw,learn few chemical scientific name today.haha.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Any hope tech x2 with SiCCC owner here?how they perform?


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Looking at getting these for my Hope V2 brakes. These brakes need a slightly deeper track, does anyone have measurements on the track depth?


----------



## rob20rx7 (Mar 5, 2013)

Thats it! Im ordering a Set 140mm rear and 160mm front for my new Mavic SLR's I will let you know how it goes


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

Hello,

We really prefer to be contacted directly through our email or support ticket system. A small staff and long days make keeping up with so many portals of communication daunting. Early on the thread was utterly useless, but now at least we'd like to clear a few things up.

We expect anyone to get exceptional performance from their rotors for a very long time, a minimum of three years under normal circumstances. While we tested many brake systems - with the assumption that the riders buying SiCCC rotors would have higher end, newer gear, we did know that was /is possible for some less desirable matches. We did not want to force pads on customers and we feel that the vast majority will be very pleased.

Naming pad compounds / construction doesn't work. Each manufacturer has a tweak to their composition. We find it's better to speak in specifics Xcompanies Ypad. 

We are working on a factory burn in that doesn't make the rotor look used. Expecting riders to spend a few laps burning in and becoming familiar with the modulation seemed reasonable to us. We understand better now the level of impatience of trying a new part and importance of taking the rotors reputation above a procedural issue. But again, we are still looking for a specific solution and that may take some time. 

As far as burn ins, we will revise the instructions to use numbers instead of descriptions. I am breathing hard after a burn in session, but it only takes a few laps. I have the room to sprint to 15mph, then smooth brake to 2-5mph, not a jolt. About 8 of those gets the bike feeling trail worthy. Worst thing you can do is a hard brake and leave a lump of film on a virgin burn in. The other thing we see is holding the brake and pedaling hard. Not good. It is far easier to do it right the first time.

As far as the baking: it wasn't kerosene, it was -like- kerosene. And while all the smaller runs were cleaned with our surface scrubbing easily - production means parts get stacked and the machine operator goes on smoke breaks etc. So some rotors got more saturated and the old procedure wasn't enough. If there was a remote chance a customers rotor was effected, they were notified. In the united states of lawyers, never put anything in your oven other than apple pie. A little time in the sun gives you a chance to take pictures.

Switching pads: if you switch you must clean. Changing pad compounds is a bigger deal than it may seem. Take the time and do it right. If you have specific Brake system /pad combo questions, support tickets to ask us, or soon - I think this thread will have great info sharing (can't we have a new, cleaner one, without it starting off with nonsense?) with the many combinations that provide a great braking platform.

And finally, what brought me here, we use Acetone to clean the film off with paper towels or micro fiber (nothing else, and no abrasives!) and it takes some patience. But we do not use alcohol, we have that and many other cleaners here. Acetone. Experimenting is up to you but please don't disregard any companies instructions and then cry foul. Same with the burn in, mounting or bleed instructions.

Again, if you have any questions - right now the best thing is to ask us via support ticket on the site. The whole goal of the kickstarter was to convert riders, teach them and let them go spread the word. 

Thanks!


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

I'm converted and spreading the word. I really wanted these to work and just kept riding them until they did. They work excellent now. Thanks Kettle dudes!


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Hey Aaron, good to see that not only I got quick response to my doubts by mail, but you also got into this thread to help solve others. :thumbsup:


----------



## enyceckk101 (Mar 6, 2013)

damn those rotors look sexy!


----------



## gotfish8 (Jun 7, 2009)

I got my Rotors 160/180mm. I am using them with 2012 Avid XX brakes with stock pads. The pads were used so I scuffed them using 600 grit sand paper to remove the glaze from the steel rotors. I followed the break in procedure provided by Kettle cycles and properly adjusted my brakes. So far they are great, The modulation properties over the steel rotors are way better.


----------



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

^^^^ those look so nice mounted up, the steel rotor is the only thing on my bike not murdered out, I want some but was waiting to see how the worked out


----------



## AaGro (Mar 7, 2012)

@ gotfish8 -

First, those look fantastic mounted. Thanks for the comment on modulation. Any further comments on noise, use in the wet, power etc. Those of this that have been following the SICC pads would love a real world write-up.

Thanks 
AG


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

jos3ph4ever said:


> Just received today from Malaysia..the one I installed on rear seem like have a little bend.


Got my rotors last week and mounted them on a set of Enve Twenty9 XC tubulars with DT 240S 6-bolt disc hubs for use on a Raleigh RXC Pro disc cross bike. I am running Shimano CX75 mechanical disc calipers with the stock pads (resin) and the rotor up front works well and after a 45-minute test ride, has good braking and is very quiet. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the rotor on the rear wheel because despite mounting/unmounting/mounting, the rotor appears to be warped in one section where the rotor moves ~3-4mm laterally. This was not an issue with the Ashiman Ai2 rotor the Kettle rotor replaced but I will need once again remove the Kettle rotor so i can set it on a flat surface to confirm if it is indeed warped. While it could be the hub, at this point, I am doubtful that one of the disc mounts on a DT Swiss hub would be off by that much!


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

ms6073 said:


> Got my rotors last week and mounted them on a set of Enve Twenty9 XC tubulars with DT 240S 6-bolt disc hubs for use on a Raleigh RXC Pro disc cross bike. I am running Shimano CX75 mechanical disc calipers with the stock pads (resin) and the rotor up front works well and after a 45-minute test ride, has good braking and is very quiet. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the rotor on the rear wheel because despite mounting/unmounting/mounting, the rotor appears to be warped in one section where the rotor moves ~3-4mm laterally. This was not an issue with the Ashiman Ai2 rotor the Kettle rotor replaced but I will need once again remove the Kettle rotor so i can set it on a flat surface to confirm if it is indeed warped. While it could be the hub, at this point, I am doubtful that one of the disc mounts on a DT Swiss hub would be off by that much!


The flatness tolerance is very tight, I expect you will find the same as jos3ph4ever that a remount dislodges a piece of debris and it's perfect. The rotors start much thicker and are ground in a way that controls the thickness, and this after they are 'set' as a ceramic. If it is somehow not flat, please call or contact us through the support ticket and we will get you sorted out. thx.


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

Aaron,

Thanks for the followup. This morning I once again removed the rotor and this time laid it on a granite countertop and would estimate that this showed the rotor was within +/-2mm of laying flat. Next, I placed the wheel in the truing stand (budget model for basic truing), and was able to use my Harbor Freight digital vernier caliper to perform some adhoc checks for hi/lo variation on the face of the rotor disc mounts. I did this by placing the micrometer flush against the arm of the stand and measuring the differences between each of the 6-mounts which varied from as little as .05mm to possibly as much as .50mm. So while this seems like a very small degree of variation near the center of the rotors rotation, I am guessing this would exacerbate the lateral variance along that axis as you radiate out further from the hub. At this point, I am thinking it might be wise to check with the local machine shop that turned the flanges off my hollowgram spindles to see if they can also mill the hub's disc mount faces to achieve some tighter tolerances.


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Aaron.S said:


> The flatness tolerance is very tight, I expect you will find the same as jos3ph4ever that a remount dislodges a piece of debris and it's perfect. The rotors start much thicker and are ground in a way that controls the thickness, and this after they are 'set' as a ceramic. If it is somehow not flat, please call or contact us through the support ticket and we will get you sorted out. thx.


Thanks for supporting this so well. I know it's hard to see all these different internet forums, but when we see support like this, we are willing to take a chance on something unknown or a little pricey.


----------



## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

I am eagerly waiting to try mine with my mini hope brakes,:thumbsup: I am currently using Scrub rotor's which work great, I love the look of the Sicc rotors.


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

ms6073 said:


> Aaron,
> 
> Thanks for the followup. This morning I once again removed the rotor and this time laid it on a granite countertop and would estimate that this showed the rotor was within +/-2mm of laying flat. Next, I placed the wheel in the truing stand (budget model for basic truing), and was able to use my Harbor Freight digital vernier caliper to perform some adhoc checks for hi/lo variation on the face of the rotor disc mounts. I did this by placing the micrometer flush against the arm of the stand and measuring the differences between each of the 6-mounts which varied from as little as .05mm to possibly as much as .50mm. So while this seems like a very small degree of variation near the center of the rotors rotation, I am guessing this would exacerbate the lateral variance along that axis as you radiate out further from the hub. At this point, I am thinking it might be wise to check with the local machine shop that turned the flanges off my hollowgram spindles to see if they can also mill the hub's disc mount faces to achieve some tighter tolerances.


Now it makes sense. Quick mock up shows what .5mm hub flange from left to right would do, one would hope the 6 would provide a better average. 21.4-19.6 = 1.8 go figure.

I guess we better start sourcing shims to help solve hub issues so that we can help in this situation.

I really appreciate you taking the time and not just blaming the rotor!


----------



## cfrea (Dec 11, 2011)

Thanks Aaron,

I look forward to my rotors arriving. Hopefully my CK hub has no issues!


Aaron.S said:


> View attachment 778533
> 
> 
> Now it makes sense. Quick mock up shows what .5mm hub flange from left to right would do, one would hope the 6 would provide a better average. 21.4-19.6 = 1.8 go figure.
> ...


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

ms6073 said:


> Aaron,
> 
> Thanks for the followup. This morning I once again removed the rotor and this time laid it on a granite countertop and would estimate that this showed the rotor was within +/-2mm of laying flat. Next, I placed the wheel in the truing stand (budget model for basic truing), and was able to use my Harbor Freight digital vernier caliper to perform some adhoc checks for hi/lo variation on the face of the rotor disc mounts. I did this by placing the micrometer flush against the arm of the stand and measuring the differences between each of the 6-mounts which varied from as little as .05mm to possibly as much as .50mm. So while this seems like a very small degree of variation near the center of the rotors rotation, I am guessing this would exacerbate the lateral variance along that axis as you radiate out further from the hub. At this point, I am thinking it might be wise to check with the local machine shop that turned the flanges off my hollowgram spindles to see if they can also mill the hub's disc mount faces to achieve some tighter tolerances.


Still start a support ticket, if bolting them up tweaked the rotor, we will have to sort you out. 
Thanks again.


----------



## Der_Transpirator (Jul 24, 2010)

@Kettle rotor owners 

I would like to know, if the mounting hardware was included in your purchase? 
And if so, are the bolts made from steel or titanium? 

Regards


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

just got mine today 180/160 

no harware here. the 180 looks great, but the 160 looks like it has a blimish or maybe even a chip in the outer edge about 1" long. I guess I will try it anyhow and see how it works. as long as it works i dont care about the finish.


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

Those of us who got rotors via the Kickstarter campaign did not have an option for hardware although Kettle offered black Ti bolts when they opened there webstore.


----------



## dmclemens (Sep 14, 2011)

*Got mine!*

Got my 180/160 today. Mounting was straight forward, bedding in went easily. I had a difficult time centering the calipers, but I always have problems with that. I did manage to get them to run absolutely drag free though, so I'm pumped about that! They're stronger than the stock Formula one piece steel rotors for sure. I plan on riding tomorrow so I'll update with on-trail performance.


----------



## -Todd- (Jun 13, 2011)

Now that looks impressive. This is definitely one of my next mods. Love the creativity in the use of materials.


----------



## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

Has there been any treatment done to the rotor where it mounts to the hub so as to avoid galvonic corosion?


----------



## tequeman (Mar 10, 2013)

I appear to be misinformed please disregard this post.


----------



## racerwad (Sep 17, 2005)

AlienRFX said:


> Has there been any treatment done to the rotor where it mounts to the hub so as to avoid galvonic corosion?


I would assume that since there are no metals in the construction of the rotor, galvanic corrosion is a non-issue.


----------



## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

racerwad said:


> I would assume that since there are no metals in the construction of the rotor, galvanic corrosion is a non-issue.


I'm more concerned about the hub possibly corroding where the rotor bolts up. Of course this concern could be totally unfounded.


----------



## Kanik (Sep 28, 2011)

Carbon can still cause galvanic reactions with metals. It's very mild and most times not an issue, but it does happen.


----------



## WickedLite (Nov 15, 2010)

I missed Kettle Cycles on Kickstarter by 5 minutes but am glad to see they are up and running. My order for a couple sets went in the day the store opened and I am eagerly awaiting them. Ship date is March 18th.

After everything I read about these it's an all win win part.

Lightest rotor, doesn't hold heat, long lasting, compatible with all pads and strong enough for all mtbing.

Carbon and aluminum can have a reaction but I believe salt has to be in the mix. Many carbon and aluminum frames/ parts out there are bonded together with no issues. If you're really worried, I'm sure a slice of wax paper, vinyl sticker or even vaseline in between them would work. I'm not worried on this.


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

Galvanic corrosion will occur- at temperatures in excess of 1000c /1832F


----------



## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Aaron - are the Kickstarter March 160mm rotors still going to ship this coming week (as per your last update)?


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

Yes they are


----------



## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Aaron.S said:


> Yes they are


Great to hear. Thanks.


----------



## dmclemens (Sep 14, 2011)

I got out for a ride yesterday with 180/160 rotors. I'm using Formula RX brakes with the Al backed organic pads. My original post with pictues is on page 9. I rode three AM trails with varying technicality, speed, and grade (if you're familiar with Aliso in Southern California, Rockit, Carwreck, and Lynx).. On the first, braking was slightly weaker than on my well worn steel rotors. Not much though, still one finger braking and I could brake the rear loose easily. On the second, Carwreck, they started biting much better. By the bottom they were as strong as with steel rotors. On the third, I forgot about the new rotors, which is great. I guess I should have done more bedding in before the ride, but it worked out anyway. They don't rub at all and they're completely quiet (no chirps, warbles, honks, squeals, or whines). And of course they look great and garner attention and questions on the trail. Since I'm in Southern California I may not get much of a shot at this "wet weather riding" I keep hearing about, but I will post another update if I do.


----------



## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Which pads are you using excactly? Would you have a link where to get them? There are few options on the 'bay. I would like to save a few more grams with alu. backed pads, but they actually must work together with the rotors. 

Chris.


----------



## tequeman (Mar 10, 2013)

Stock Shimano resin pads work very well


----------



## Stevoo (Mar 9, 2007)

Aaron,
Any plans to make these rotors in 203mm? I will be happy to buy some and put them through some abusive tandem related testing. I have road and offroad tandems that work disc brakes very hard. I am really interested to see how these might perform for my unique needs.

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## dmclemens (Sep 14, 2011)

I got my pads at my LBS, just asked for aluminum backed organic pads for the RX. I'm fairly certain they're the "organic-lightweight" listed at chainreactioncycles dot com (I can't post links until I post 10 posts I guess).


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

Stevoo said:


> Aaron,
> Any plans to make these rotors in 203mm? I will be happy to buy some and put them through some abusive tandem related testing. I have road and offroad tandems that work disc brakes very hard. I am really interested to see how these might perform for my unique needs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve


We make 203mm, in the normal SiCCC (two piece) and SFL styles.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Hi
I just got my Kickstarter 180mm rotors. Looks well constructed near perfectly true. Installed front on Dt Swiss 240 Enve wheel with Avid Elixir cr with new sintered pads. Burned in pads per instructions and power is at about 5-10 percent. Perfect pad transfer layer. Hopefully it will improve as the pads wear in. Will try cleaning and putting them in the sun. I check the temperature of the rotors after several 20 mph slows(stopping as fast as I could) and they where cold to the touch. Calipers and pads were warm. I feel that they will get better with time. Will report after next ride.


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

@alexbn921 
Avid with stock 'sinter' pads are what we use on a demo bike to show lower powered brake systems work well.
Something is off.
Are the pads from Avid?
Rotors from a different company, any company usually changes your engagement. If you did the sprints to -light- braking you should be smiling ear to ear.
We apparently need to clarify the burn in, that is why I bring that up. 
Several have gone out with hard pulses which lays down uneven clumps of film.

That's the only trick, so when someone has an issue with a brake system we have many many miles - even dyno with avid elixirs - we have to figure out the missing puzzle piece.
And unless you got the direct msg through kickstarter about baking, it does not apply to your rotors.

You can call or do a support ticket as well. Just please don't facebook, twitter or pm here.


----------



## lorteti (May 29, 2011)

dmclemens said:


> I got my pads at my LBS, just asked for aluminum backed organic pads for the RX. I'm fairly certain they're the "organic-lightweight" listed at chainreactioncycles dot com (I can't post links until I post 10 posts I guess).


Does your RX with carbon rotors makes any noise?

jx


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Hi Aaron
I am not trying to bash the rotors. I feel that there is an expectation that they will work right out of the box and not need extra burn in time vs a steel rotor. I fell that as long as we are informed, we know what to expect from the performance of the rotor. I have edited my post to reflect that I do believe these are an awesome product and will just need some extra time to work perfect. I will also report my view as a consumer, so that others can make an informed decision. FYI I have never been happy with my weak Elixers. Changing them out to XTR Race tonight. Will report good and bad. Cheers


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

dmclemens said:


> Got my 180/160 today. Mounting was straight forward, bedding in went easily. I had a difficult time centering the calipers, but I always have problems with that. I did manage to get them to run absolutely drag free though, so I'm pumped about that! They're stronger than the stock Formula one piece steel rotors for sure. I plan on riding tomorrow so I'll update with on-trail performance.


Be honest,
Did you only get these because they match your Mojo raw carbon frame?


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

alexbn921 said:


> Hi Aaron
> I am not trying to bash the rotors. I feel that there is an expectation that they will work right out of the box and not need extra burn in time vs a steel rotor. I fell that as long as we are informed, we know what to expect from the performance of the rotor. I have edited my post to reflect that I do believe these are an awesome product and will just need some extra time to work perfect. I will also report my view as a consumer, so that others can make an informed decision. FYI I have never been happy with my weak Elixers. Changing them out to XTR Race tonight. Will report good and bad. Cheers


Just changed my hope to XTR Trai with metal finned pad(f03c),the power create so far is better than hope and able to stop when I wan to stop(still in bedding process).
This is third brakeset since I received this rotors........


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Aaron.S said:


> Galvanic corrosion will occur- at temperatures in excess of 1000c /1832F


OK, So my trip to ride on Mercury is out until you fix this problem.


----------



## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

I'm still looking for some insights into how true these things stay...the idea of not having to tweak rotors to eliminate rub is pretty attractive.

Of course the downside would be if there is a problem with their true-ness, then it seems like you would be SOL...


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

IPA Rider said:


> I'm still looking for some insights into how true these things stay...the idea of not having to tweak rotors to eliminate rub is pretty attractive.
> 
> Of course the downside would be if there is a problem with their true-ness, then it seems like you would be SOL...


I'm sure there won't be an issue with true-ness, otherwise Kettle is dead in water with these. I'll be mounting mine on two different makes of hubs so we'll see. I'm a Feb. backer, so hope to see my rotors soon.


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

We spend almost as much on grinding services as the carbon weave per rotor. They are inspected twice each. By people who know their craft and take pride in their work. 

We can also tell by inspection when a rotor has been over-torqued to a hub that has an uneven mounting surface. There is a reason the industry torque spec is low, and it's more important with ours than steel because you can bend the steel to compensate. 

I am no means trying to argue, it is simply an invitation to contact us if there is an issue. 
The rotors work, they work with a wide variety of pads /systems and they do ship flat. 
IF that is not your experience we want to figure out why and help. I really want to understand what and why you did not have a smooth experience so we can make sure we are doing everything we can to hone our communications and instructions and our over all product experience.


----------



## ekcyclops (Mar 13, 2013)

What the price tag on these?


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

ekcyclops said:


> What the price tag on these?


SFL - SiCCC Brake Rotors


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Rotors showed up today. Nice to see they are under claimed weight, both of my 160mm are 53 grams. Checked the rotors on a piece of glass and they are perfectly true. Cleaned the rotors with Acetone and a lint free rag. Only running the front brake for now which is XTR 985 Race with new Shimano Resin pads. Torqued rotor bolts to Kettle's specs and in a criss-cross pattern. Noticed rotor was no longer true, so I backed off all 6 bolts and re-torqued, rotor was then true. If you are having issues with the rotor not true I would try re -torqueing and make sure you are using a torque wrench.
I was running a Aligator Windcutter 180mm which had great power. After removing rotor, adapter and Ti adapter bolts I saved 90 grams going to the Kettle rotor.
Followed Kettle's bed-in process with applying the brakes 12 times. Rotor's braking surface looked good & fully scrubbed in, but I had no braking power. I continued the brake-in process doing another 6 sets of 12 braking applications. It slowly got better, but I'm at approx. 60% braking power. With day light leaving me and arm pump setting in, I called it a day. I'm surprised the power is so poor with XTR 985, as these are very powerfull brakes with steel rotors. I'm going to stick with these and try another 5 or 6 sets of 12. I think these will be good in the long run, its just going to take awhile to bed them in as others have mentioned.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

xc71 said:


> Rotors showed up today. Nice to see they are under claimed weight, both of my 160mm are 53 grams. Checked the rotors on a piece of glass and they are perfectly true. Cleaned the rotors with Acetone and a lint free rag. Only running the front brake for now which is XTR 985 Race with new Shimano Resin pads. Torqued rotor bolts to Kettle's specs and in a criss-cross pattern. Noticed rotor was no longer true, so I backed off all 6 bolts and re-torqued, rotor was then true. If you are having issues with the rotor not true I would try re -torqueing and make sure you are using a torque wrench.
> I was running a Aligator Windcutter 180mm which had great power. After removing rotor, adapter and Ti adapter bolts I saved 90 grams going to the Kettle rotor.
> Followed Kettle's bed-in process with applying the brakes 12 times. Rotor's braking surface looked good & fully scrubbed in, but I had no braking power. I continued the brake-in process doing another 6 sets of 12 braking applications. It slowly got better, but I'm at approx. 60% braking power. With day light leaving me and arm pump setting in, I called it a day. I'm surprised the power is so poor with XTR 985, as these are very powerfull brakes with steel rotors. I'm going to stick with these and try another 5 or 6 sets of 12. I think these will be good in the long run, its just going to take awhile to bed them in as others have mentioned.


Loved your extra lite hubs.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Aaron.S said:


> Galvanic corrosion will occur- at temperatures in excess of 1000c /1832F





ziscwg said:


> OK, So my trip to ride on Mercury is out until you fix this problem.


Sorry kids, thanks to mean-man Aaron, and his measly 1000 C-limited rotors, our trip to Mercury is cancelled. Seriously, no tears, or I pull this ship over at Venus...


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Subscribed...xc71, keep us posted. I also posted in a separate thread that my buddy's XX showed really poor performance as well. In fact, when he mounted brand new organic XX pads, there was virtually no spacing between pad and rotors and it was rubbing constantly (as if the rotor was too thick). Yes, even re-seated the calipers. I'm waiting for my 2-piece, but I'm concerned now with all the feedback above.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

nsxtc said:


> Subscribed...xc71, keep us posted. I also posted in a separate thread that my buddy's XX showed really poor performance as well. In fact, when he mounted brand new organic XX pads, there was virtually no spacing between pad and rotors and it was rubbing constantly (as if the rotor was too thick). Yes, even re-seated the calipers. I'm waiting for my 2-piece, but I'm concerned now with all the feedback above.


My rotors were thicker than the steel rotors as well, but after bedding in the new pads mine to longer touched and ran silent.


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Anxiously awaiting my pair. I have New Shimano resin pads just waiting for the rotors. The hard part is that I live up a hill so bedding in as instructed may be a challenge but i am sure I can figure it out.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Finally installed XTR race brakes with resin pads and did some burn in runs. Brakes are working much better and I think they are ready for a real ride. Checked run out +-.002. I little bit of rub that should go away one the pads wear in. Weight of 2 180mm 138.5g, damn that's light. FYI they are slightly thicker then steel rotors.


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

xc71 said:


> Rotors showed up today. Nice to see they are under claimed weight, both of my 160mm are 53 grams. Checked the rotors on a piece of glass and they are perfectly true. Cleaned the rotors with Acetone and a lint free rag. Only running the front brake for now which is XTR 985 Race with new Shimano Resin pads. Torqued rotor bolts to Kettle's specs and in a criss-cross pattern. Noticed rotor was no longer true, so I backed off all 6 bolts and re-torqued, rotor was then true. If you are having issues with the rotor not true I would try re -torqueing and make sure you are using a torque wrench.
> I was running a Aligator Windcutter 180mm which had great power. After removing rotor, adapter and Ti adapter bolts I saved 90 grams going to the Kettle rotor.
> Followed Kettle's bed-in process with applying the brakes 12 times. Rotor's braking surface looked good & fully scrubbed in, but I had no braking power. I continued the brake-in process doing another 6 sets of 12 braking applications. It slowly got better, but I'm at approx. 60% braking power. With day light leaving me and arm pump setting in, I called it a day. I'm surprised the power is so poor with XTR 985, as these are very powerfull brakes with steel rotors. I'm going to stick with these and try another 5 or 6 sets of 12. I think these will be good in the long run, its just going to take awhile to bed them in as others have mentioned.


I don't see the ballon weight for your bike. With all that carbon, I don't see how it stays on the ground


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

@alex,

Keep us posted. I'm running same XTR brakes and pads and anxiously waiting for your results. Stock 180mm XT ICE rotors weighs ~131g each so in essence, you shaved 1/2 the weight or ~1/8 lbs each wheel (1/4 lbs total).


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

---------Ideas on pad material ------ Softer is better-----------
Most brake rotors have a high void area 30%-50%. This means that the contact area of the pad is reduced and the force is increased. This should have no effect on braking power, because the increase in pressure offsets the smaller surface area. This does have an effect on pad life. More void area will decrease the life of the pad and require that you use a harder sintered metal pad. Solid rotors like the SFL have almost no void area, so the pad force will be lower with a higher surface area. This should increase the life of the pad with no loss of stopping power. Now this is where the pads friction properties come into play. I don't have all the information, but my guess is that a softer organic pad will perform better at this reduced force and last for a long period of time. Also bigger rotors are better 
Tribology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Applied Engineering Mechanics: Statics and Dynamics - Geoffrey Boothroyd, C. R. Poli - Google Books


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

alexbn921 said:


> ---------Ideas on pad material ------ Softer is better-----------
> Most brake rotors have a high void area 30%-50%. This means that the contact area of the pad is reduced and the force is increased. This should have no effect on braking power, because the increase in pressure offsets the smaller surface area. This does have an effect on pad life. More void area will decrease the life of the pad and require that you use a harder sintered metal pad. Solid rotors like the SFL have almost no void area, so the pad force will be lower with a higher surface area. This should increase the life of the pad with no loss of stopping power. Now this is where the pads friction properties come into play. I don't have all the information, but my guess is that a softer organic pad will perform better at this reduced force and last for a long period of time. Also bigger rotors are better
> Tribology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Applied Engineering Mechanics: Statics and Dynamics - Geoffrey Boothroyd, C. R. Poli - Google Books


The consensus is that users are having to apply a lot more pressure but still resulting in 30% degradation in power. I'm not sure how a softer pad will help here. I can attest to this personally on my buddy's setup.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I just got my 160's, will have to wait to install and burn them after Saturday, but, they sit totally flat on my crystal desktop.
Will post impressions later to see if I am among the "consensus".
They were spot on weight.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

just received 2 sets of 180mm and installed

bed in procedure followed as per Kettle

New pads organic front/sinted rear, avid elixir 9 brakes

not stopping as good as metal at the moment, hopefully get better as they 'bed in' a bit more


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Thanks for the update. There is currently three threads on mtbr on SICCC rotors and all have reported the same issues. Is there a way to combine the threads into one?

Anyone reached out to Kettle and ask if they've seen similar issues during testing? I'm not liking the time and distance that these rotors have to bed in to get even almost the same performance as steel rotors. That's just unreasonable. 

I asked for a refund on my two-piece but they said Kickstarter's system doesn't allow for it. Instead, they said they could write me a check minus fees charged but they urged me to give the rotors a try.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Going to switch out pads

Organic in the front is ok and going to put organic in the rear and see how they perform

They slow the bike down, but when you would expect the bike to stop or lock up, that bite isn't there, hopefully going organic will be the solution


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

ms6073 said:


> placed a micrometer flush against the arm of the stand and measuring the differences between each of the 6-mounts which varied from as little as .05mm to possibly as much as .50mm. So while this seems like a very small degree of variation near the center of the rotors rotation, I am guessing this would exacerbate the lateral variance along that axis as you radiate out further from the hub. At this point, I am thinking it might be wise to check with the local machine shop that turned the flanges off my hollowgram spindles to see if they can also mill the hub's disc mount faces to achieve some tighter tolerances.


Followup. Swapped the rotors from my Enve Twenty9 XC wheelset with DT Swiss hubs and mounted them on the set of Stans ZTR 3.30 I use on the 29er SS and with new pads on the SRAM XO calipers, and the rotors appear to work better with no discernible pad rub but have yet to get out on the trails to really test them out. Very surprised at the difference of disc mount faces between the Stan's and more expensive DT Swiss hubs.


----------



## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

I would at least try giving your current pads a solid 50 miles of riding before changing stuff around.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Just changing to organic rear, front organic is ok


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

AlienRFX said:


> I would at least try giving your current pads a solid 50 miles of riding before changing stuff around.


Did 50km on sintered and they were crap

Just changed to organic rear and done 2km and they are fine

Must have a dodgy pair of sintered pads or the rotors really prefer organic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Anyone got any information if the batch supposed to ship on the 18th of march actually did?

Delivery times keep changing on the website. 

Chris.


----------



## cfrea (Dec 11, 2011)

nope got delayed


krzysiekmz said:


> Anyone got any information if the batch supposed to ship on the 18th of march actually did?
> 
> Delivery times keep changing on the website.
> 
> Chris.


----------



## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

Am not sure if some one asked already, 

Has anyone tried these with Maguras as the pad clearance is generally more than on other brands given they are designed around 2mm (width) rotor usage? And if so did you have any issues with rubbing or clearance?


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

drbelleville said:


> Am not sure if some one asked already,
> 
> Has anyone tried these with Maguras as the pad clearance is generally more than on other brands given they are designed around 2mm (width) rotor usage? And if so did you have any issues with rubbing or clearance?


I did, bad luck I got thicker rotors (2.1 and 2.2mm), I tried on the front wheel and even with the pads pushed all the way in they barely fit, giving constant rubbing, so, I reinstalled the Storm and contacted them to see if this is common problem and find a solution, Aaron told me:
"Pushing the pads in, won't always do it, sometimes a system is in need of a bleed or has fluid volume for thinner rotors"
He will comment with Josh, who has more experience in dealing with Maguras and let me know the possible fix for it.
My brakes are MT8's with new performance pads and not so new Storm 160 rotors.
I really want them to work.
By the way the one I tried was perfectly true.


----------



## campaleches (Mar 23, 2009)

doccoraje said:


> I did, bad luck I got thicker rotors (2.1 and 2.2mm), I tried on the front wheel and even with the pads pushed all the way in they barely fit, giving constant rubbing, so, I reinstalled the Storm and contacted them to see if this is common problem and find a solution, Aaron told me:
> "Pushing the pads in, won't always do it, sometimes a system is in need of a bleed or has fluid volume for thinner rotors"
> He will comment with Josh, who has more experience in dealing with Maguras and let me know the possible fix for it.
> My brakes are MT8's with new performance pads and not so new Storm 160 rotors.
> ...


I guess they made this video in response to your query, so you may find it of interest:

Kettle Cycles - SiCCC rotors: System Integration - YouTube

BTW, I got mine already, I will try them tomorrow if I can, and I will report how they work (Avid BB7 road calipers, Clarks organic pads)


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

campaleches said:


> I guess they made this video in response to your query, so you may find it of interest:
> 
> Kettle Cycles - SiCCC rotors: System Integration - YouTube


To bad MT8's don't have that option.


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

*Shimano pads with or without heatsink*

going to be trying my 160/180 rotors soon with *XT brakes*, and plan on getting some new pads for them.

looks like organic is the way to go?

does anyone know if I should get the pads with the *heatsink fins* or without? if they would work better one way or the other with the siccc rotors


----------



## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Aaron.S said:


> Yes they are


So I take it the 160 March Kickstarter batch didn't ship last week since I haven't gotten them and I live less than an hour away from your shop. Any chance they'll go out this week?


----------



## gorgor (Mar 21, 2013)

I've recieved my rotors in the mail this week:*180mm front + 160mm rear. Waiting for my new set of wheels to mount them on.

I'm a little concerned though about all these user reviews that point out to a loss of brake power and bite… I'll test these with Magura Marta SL and let you know my findings.


----------



## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

doccoraje said:


> To bad MT8's don't have that option.


i bled my mt8 with a thinner block to get slightly less clearance so i bet you could do the opposite


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

natrat said:


> i bled my mt8 with a thinner block to get slightly less clearance so i bet you could do the opposite


Well, I got them to work even without a bleed, my caliper was slightly off, now it is rotating free, with just a minimal rub, yes, they are not totally true.
Bedding went ok, but as others have noted, power is getting there really slow, after 30 minutes of gentle braking, I'm getting 70% of the stopping power I had with Storms. I only installed the front one, I'll wait until I feel it "normal" to put the rear one.
Not a lot of noise, just a continuous hissss when applying force to them.


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

campaleches said:


> I guess they made this video in response to your query, so you may find it of interest:
> Kettle Cycles - SiCCC rotors: System Integration - YouTube


Thats a really nice tool box in the background of the video. :thumbsup:


----------



## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Has anyone got any info. when the rotors supposed to ship on Match 18 will actually do?
I can't get an answer from them. 

Chris.


----------



## WickedLite (Nov 15, 2010)

krzysiekmz said:


> Has anyone got any info. when the rotors supposed to ship on Match 18 will actually do?
> I can't get an answer from them.
> 
> Chris.


I just got notice that mine shipped out yesterday


----------



## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

WickedLite said:


> I just got notice that mine shipped out yesterday


Mine are on there way:
This message was sent to you at the request of Kettle Cycles ltd, to notify you that they have shipped a package to you. :thumbsup:


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm still to pull the trigger on these rotors, not due to worried about taking a risk but more about funding them and the fact I run Hope V2 brakes which require a 20mm braking track and these rotors have a 18mm track. (That's the risk as Aaron suggested that they won't be a good match due to this 2mm indiscretion, but all it takes is a little work with a dremmel to get 2mm off the size of the pad!)

My take on some people suggesting that they lack in power is actually the fact they give you a lot more modulation in your braking than you are used to. Hope brakes give you loads of modulation and most people translate this into being a lack of power as they don't brake like Shimano and others where when you pull the lever you are nearly put over the bars instantly, where with Hope's the power comes on towards the end of the lever stroke. On a UK magazine test run on brakes it found the Hope's to be more powerful than the rest but a lot of people contested this as they imagine a more powerful brake to be instant and not graduated. This graduation of the power is the modulation you are looking for in a braking system, so you can control the bike a lot better, instead of an on/off sort of braking. I could be completely wrong but when I got the cash I can then find out for myself. :thumbsup:


----------



## burl81 (Mar 2, 2007)

So here's my take. Running 160mm F/R with stock R1's. Did the break in process 12x and thought they felt great on the road till I hit trails. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! is pretty much was I was yelling praying they would stop. I would estimate I had about 50% power compared to a steel rotor. HOWEVER, by my third ride power was noticeable better, but not a 100% of a steel rotor. 
This weekend I spent a couple days in Ashland, OR chasing my brother had have learned a few things more. Power is up, but MODULATION is they key to these rotors. I did have to squeeze a little harder to get ALL OUT POWER but they slow, modulate, and don't fad. (some very steep, fast, smooth trails here). After spending some time on his brakes (elixer 5), I noticed his are just ON/OFF; very grabby and powerful, but on/off. 
I took 500grit paper to the pads and went out the next day. Noticeable improvement! Maybe in time they will generate more all out power, but I do like the increase modulation.


----------



## jc280 (May 13, 2008)

I agree. They modulate much better than steel but lack the all out stopping power of the steel. Your experience is exactly like mine.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

jc280 said:


> I agree. They modulate much better than steel but lack the all out stopping power of the steel. Your experience is exactly like mine.


+1

also poor with sintered pads (well mine were)


----------



## DWill (Aug 24, 2010)

I had credit card in hand a few days ago. Glad I decided to wait a bit.


----------



## Jcjacob21 (Oct 26, 2010)

I received my SFL rotors last week. I ordered the 180/160 combo. They weigh about 40-45% less than the Storm SL rotors they replaced. I mounted them up to my Roval Control SL wheels following their instructions for torque and bolt tightening pattern. The rotors were fairly true with very minimal rubbing that was easily eliminated by adjusting the calipers. I'm running XTR trail brakes with new resin pads. I followed their bed-in instructions. I did about 12 brake burn sessions and noticed them slowly getting better with each run. I ended up doing about 30 runs before hitting the trail. The brake power at this point was about 70% of what I had with Storm rotors. 

Once on the trail I really noticed the modulation is way better than the steel rotors (the new Shimano brakes had room for improvement in this area IMO). The first few descents I definitely noticed the lack of full power. That being said, with each descent the power kept getting better and better. By the end of the ride (43 miles with 4K ft of descending) I had about 90% power and had no issues standing the bike up on the front wheel before a tight switchback. I'm going to do a few more rides this week to see how much more power I can get out of them. Even if power doesn't improve too much more, I would recommend them at this early stage ownership. If you do go with these rotors, I recommend spending a couple of hours burning them in and then obviously be careful on the first few descents once on the trail.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

@JcJacob, It's just about the same with mine, the only difference is that I'm using MT8 brakes. They still lack the final extra grasp the Storm gave. I started with the front brake, now I'm ready for using both.


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

I have an update on my buddies SFL...

After 50 miles of breaking in, He and I went down on went on a downhill ride together and chose a spot that we would just brake as hard as we can at the same time. 

I'm running XTR race with resin pads and XT ice rotors...he has XX brakes with sintered pads. Before I was leaving him in the dust where I could stop on a dime and he probably another 10 feet after me. 

Now after the 50 miles break in period He's able to stop the same distance as me. I feel very encouraged now that the stopping power is there albeit takes such a long time to bed in. Looking forward to my two piece but not looking forward to the long break in period.

Btw I'm running 180/160 and he's running 160/160 so looks promising


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

ok
after riding these on a couple of sets of wheels for a couple of weeks, I really like them
they modulate a lot differently, but really suit how I ride

they take a long time to bed in correctly and haven't used them in the wet yet
only time a strike trouble is say riding to work which I have done for ages and I'm pre programed for where I brake

no fade at all compared to my steel rotors

would recommend them, but depending on your riding style, not for everyone

my mate would hate them as he likes to lock the rear up into corners, so he likes the absolute stopping power of steel

he runs a reign x with 200mm front and rear, sintered pads and weighs 85kg

my final config.

180 front and rear with organic pads, elixir 9 brakes

29er anthem and I'm 6'4' and 100kg's


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I gave up, I took them away today and went back to Storm SL's.
After two weeks of giving them a chance to bed in and gain all the strenght that was possible, I decided to quit, they definitly stop you, but, they lack the final extra grasp metal rotors give, modulation is awesome, but...
Being a declared weight-weenie I'll miss the 80 gr weight loss over the Storm, but they are not for my ride style and terrain.
I really wanted them to work, not at the expense of having to changing my way of riding.


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

I personally was out of action for a bit, and that means workforce was down by 33%- much of our time is spent trying to maintain production, recover from vendor delays and trying to re-create any issues or feedback.

We feel strongly about a superior braking option more akin to what cars do - rather than OTB grab. And doing it with a stock pad. With the burn in as a minor annoyance.
But we get it, riders are saying 'power-loss', they want to do stoppies. We want to, and most importantly can, deliver which ever feel is desired. The material can be manipulated. In the rotor or pad. Or both. 
If you aren't getting what you want- we can manufacture it and take some unknowns out of the equation.

The simple long term solution is to scrap stock pad compatibility and make much harder rotors and only our pads, we have loathed that option from the start, but one thing may tip the scales: Claims of warped rotors. Rotors are double checked before shipping and to have that complaint is frustrating. However, the solution for dealing with hubs which are not flat is to make the rotors stiffer/harder. That impacts pad selection even more - and will significantly impact price. But at least the rotor won't be influenced by a hub's lack of flatness as 'easily'. We could understand entry level hubs that weren't flat , I never saw a case in all the easton, ck and even stans and a few DT hubs involved in testing. Heat cannot warp them - well not at temperatures outside a furnance. Regardless of the situation, we need to check out 'warped' rotors, please create a CRM ticket and get an RA. And the sooner the better so we can evaluate.

For those unhappy with bitepower, the pads are coming and this is a few days premature, but I am just asking for a bit of patience while we continue the spool up.

Thickness, nominal of 2mm with our +/- of .1 because we need a realistic window for the grinding process. There is slightly more finesse in this operation than a steel. We don't want them restarted if they approach the minimum thickness.
We understand steel rotors are getting thinner and thinner to save weight and material cost. We still have yet to find a system, that a 2.2 rotor doesn't fit when adjusted to pull the pads back , not just push them so they spring back. We did lower the ceiling last month to make the swap a smoother transition. A thin rotor does have the advantage in that the pad hanging off axis in the caliper won't make a dragging noise. 

I understand plenty of bike companies can deliver CS here on mtbr, most aren't going back in the shop and actually making their product, they are sending skypes and emails to china. We are the production, shipping, etc. It is admittedly too much for 3 guys, almostly always manning 24/7 furnaces/machines especially when we are still dealing with the kickstarter delays. It will improve immensely as the spring wears on, we promise. 

We are getting caught up with the CRM which has been broken, still is, but less so - and volusion is still working on it. If you reply to the email it's not going to work, you have to log in- but the rest is functional and we can see tickets again. And when the crm is working -we gain remote help from the king of europe and can better stay up on any questions/concerns.

We can't move as fast as we nor our customers would like, but a bit of patience and all will be sorted. Thank you.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

^ Wow, good spin!


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Aaron.S said:


> I personally was out of action for a bit, and that means workforce was down by 33%- much of our time is spent trying to maintain production, recover from vendor delays and trying to re-create any issues or feedback.
> 
> We feel strongly about a superior braking option more akin to what cars do - rather than OTB grab. And doing it with a stock pad. With the burn in as a minor annoyance.
> But we get it, riders are saying 'power-loss', they want to do stoppies. We want to, and most importantly can, deliver which ever feel is desired. The material can be manipulated. In the rotor or pad. Or both.
> ...


I like them


----------



## MarcoL (Jun 3, 2007)

I have SFL installed yesterday on my epic s-works, and BrakeForceOne Brakes and Pads, using german trickstuff alloy bolts, and treadlocker; in the beginning they were not stopping at all, Yesterday I took a long descent 2% of about 13 kms, after the pre-use, and the stopping power was awful, none, today I ran an uphill and in the downhill 6% I was making stops as indicated, and after 6 kms, the power got much much better, I hope to get more power tomorrow, will try to increase the bedding time in order to get more power, also like doccoraje I am a ww, I have tried hopes, formulas, storms, and Scrubs Race Day and Work Horse, also Magura MT8 and now BOF, Will keep informing about my experience on those

edited to complete a word


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Aaron.S said:


> I personally was out of action for a bit, and that means workforce was down by 33%- much of our time is spent trying to maintain production, recover from vendor delays and trying to re-create any issues or feedback.
> 
> We feel strongly about a superior braking option more akin to what cars do - rather than OTB grab. And doing it with a stock pad. With the burn in as a minor annoyance.
> But we get it, riders are saying 'power-loss', they want to do stoppies. We want to, and most importantly can, deliver which ever feel is desired. The material can be manipulated. In the rotor or pad. Or both.
> ...


I and I'm sure other appreciate the response here and not just on the site/kickstarter. Regardless of the news; communication is key.

Ill be waiting for pad options from you guys and I'm still enthusiastic about getting my 2 piece rotors.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

HK - Forums • View topic - Carbon disc brakes
Get link on pad selection and material science behind them. Making the rotor compatible with stock pads would be nice, but not at the expense of stopping power. The thickness of the rotor at 2mm should not be an issue on most properly adjusted systems. If special pads are required to achieve the required level of friction they could be made .1-.2mm thinner then stock pads. I see noting wrong with a pad rotor system as long as it weighs less and works great. This seems to be the whole idea behind the project. My rotors are back at Kettle awaiting an engineering solution.


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

> they want to do stoppies


yes, we want to stop. stopping is good. not stopping is bad.

I'm hopeful the new pads will work for those of us who like to stop.


----------



## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

CarlS said:


> yes, we want to stop. stopping is good. not stopping is bad.
> 
> I'm hopeful the new pads will work for those of us who like to stop.


Stopping = good
Stoppies = overkill

I understand not wanting to lose any power and effortless braking could be a personal preference. However, don't knock something that has what seems like more advantages than it does disadvantages.

Advantages over steel rotor:
1. Impossible to overheat on a mountain bike
2. No warping
3. Better modulation
4. Lighter weight
5. Cool factor of carbon

Disadvantage
1. About 30% less braking power depending on who you talk to. With current hydros even 30% less braking power can put you over the handlebars, you just squeeze a little harder.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Fajita Dave said:


> Stopping = good
> Stoppies = overkill
> 
> I understand not wanting to lose any power and effortless braking could be a personal preference. However, don't knock something that has what seems like more advantages than it does disadvantages.
> ...


Have you tried them?


----------



## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

doccoraje said:


> Have you tried them?


Nope, that's what reviews from people who have tried them are for. Besides the advantages that I listed are all pretty absolute. The only thing that will vary much is the braking power depending on the pads, your braking system and the personal opinion of what strong brakes are. 50 miles is a pretty long break in period but its not a big deal. With my mechanical brakes I doubt I'll have enough power to make the carbon rotors work after reading other people's experience.

I plan on giving it a try anyway but sizing up to a 180mm rotor over my 160mm to get some of the braking power back. From what I've been reading it seems like all they need are the right pads to match up with a carbon rotor. If the rotors get enough support that I'm sure they'll start making specific pads for them. The one person who made their own carbon pads said they had brutal stopping power with the SICC rotors. I'm willing to spend some of my money to support a company who's making higher end equipment for an affordable price.


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Fajita Dave said:


> Disadvantage
> 1. About 30% less braking power depending on who you talk to. With current hydros even 30% less braking power can put you over the handlebars, you just squeeze a little harder.


This statement doesn't make sense to me. What if I can't even OTB with even 100% power on steel? What if I'm squeezing hard as it is now to try to stop with steel? The main reason for me to swap to carbon is for all the advantages you've listed, but if I'm getting 30% less than now and having to squeeze even harder, the advantages all goes out the door.


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

K.... I'm just going to say it outright... They just don't work for me when I need them to. I have 180/160 SFL with brand new XT brakes and organic pads. 150 miles on them. When you get on something with a long steep downhill and need to stop fast, they don't. For 80-90% of the riding I do, yes...they work fairly OK. but they don't work for the super steep-loose-gnarly stuff. seriously... YIKES! I have not heard from anyone that has had success with them in extreme conditions. for XC - light AM riding... sure. but I dropped a hill the other day that had huge vert loss (about 1000 feet in less than a mile of tight switch backs) and they just failed to slow me down fast enough. I had to double finger the lever which I have never had to do with steel rotors. I do hope that Kettle comes out with a better pad material that will work for me. I really want them to work like steel rotors. but they don't with the current pads Im using. 

I hate to slam them, but want to give others a real idea if whats going on. don't talk them up if you have not tried them out in real trail condiitons.


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Fajita Dave said:


> 1. Impossible to overheat on a mountain bike


Any brake is a very simple thing. It turns momentum into heat. While you may not be able to "overheat" the rotor, you can still overheat your braking system. The heat has to go somewhere. The less heat the rotor can dissipate, the more heat enters the pads, caliper and fluid. Get enough heat into the fluid and it will expand and then boil. The key variable is how quickly a rotor can shed the heat that braking is generating.



Fajita Dave said:


> 3. Better modulation


The reviews contain plenty of talk of better modulation, but I get the impression people are confusing less power with "better modulation". A brake with good modulation does not necessarily have to come at the expense of overall braking power.



Fajita Dave said:


> 1. About 30% less braking power depending on who you talk to. With current hydros even 30% less braking power can put you over the handlebars, you just squeeze a little harder.


I don't know how people are able to quantify changes in power like that. A little change in power is often over-estimated by users. Take the new Shimano XT brakes. Shimano claim a 10% increase in power, but if you read the reviews you'd think that the old Shimano brakes didn't work and the new ones are unbelievably powerful. All these % claims need to be taken with a grain of salt until someone actually tries some semi-scientific tests, like braking distances from the same speed.


----------



## Jcjacob21 (Oct 26, 2010)

Update on my usage (original post #282)- After an extended break-in period, I'm extremely happy. I raced the Counting Coup today (local Socal Race with two approx. 4K ft descents). These things worked incredibly well. I had more power then I needed when charging into a switchback. There were a few stream crossings and I didn't seem to lose any power when they were wet. Also, the power seems to increase slightly as they get warm..the opposite of steel. This is a nice benefit on long descents. They always had enough power, but just more as they warm up. The only negative aspect was the front (180mm) was screeching at times, but it was never constant. At this point, I've put locktite on the rotor bolts and they're staying on!


----------



## pistonbroke (Mar 26, 2007)

I'm not happy with kettles customer service. Or rather their lack of. I'm in Australia and my rotors were shipped more than 30 days ago. 2 days after shipping the tracking says they were at the sorting facility in Chicago and then nothing since. They seem to be MIA. 
3 emails to kettle have now gone unanswered. I'm getting pissed off and want my rotors or my money back. 
I know things can and do go wrong but to just ignore customers who laid money down in good faith on an idea is poor form. 
Anyone else having problems? I know they are unhappy about negative comments being posted but maybe if they respond to customers emails it could be avoided.


----------



## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

I have no problem using a pad they produce in order to get similar power to my xt 785's.. I wonder if the pads would be carbon also--making them last muchhhhhh longer.... That would be cool---lighter rotor-- carbon pads-- cost a bit more but lasts a lot longer with all the benefits of carbon brakes.. Look forward to see what is to come with the pads..


----------



## millertm (Jul 20, 2012)

I have been reading this thread with interest. I have the M785's with 180/160 RT86's. I am a clyde at > 300lbs on a 29lbs 29'er. I have complete confidence with my brake system. I have come around a switchback and had riders on the trail headed my way and I was able to stop QUICK more then a few times. Our trails here in NM are WAY OVER CROWDED. There is no way you will see me on the trails on a weekend. It is a ZOO, but nevertheless, I have yet to hit anyone or even come close to hitting anyone. Therefore, this is why you need a good, no GREAT breaking system on you bike. Never mind the steep hills or other stuff people are talking about, safety is key.
Moreover, I have yet to hear any wet braking reports. MotoGP is using Carbon rotors and I am sure they are the best money can engineer, but only on dry races, in a wet race they use steel due to carbon not working wet, I also believe the F1 is the same with their wet/dry racing. If these rotors are down on power in the dry I would wonder about there wet performance.

Mark


----------



## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

ctguru said:


> my final config.
> 180 front and rear with organic pads,


i am using 200 x 180 so i was thinking go to a 200 back rotor in carbon that might yield similar performance to the 180 steel. If that works out maybe try out a front carbon. I am a sucker for bling


----------



## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

millertm said:


> Moreover, I have yet to hear any wet braking reports. MotoGP is using Carbon rotors and I am sure they are the best money can engineer, but only on dry races, in a wet race they use steel due to carbon not working wet, I also believe the F1 is the same with their wet/dry racing. If these rotors are down on power in the dry I would wonder about there wet performance.
> 
> Mark


F1 use carbon/carbon brakes with carbon pads which have an operating temp range between 700*F and 1800*F. If its lower than 700 degrees they lose braking power. Moto GP probably has something similar to the SICC rotors but they still need to be hot to operate well enough for racing. The rain keeps their brakes cool which reduces their braking power, so they use steel in the rain. F1 does still use the carbon brakes in rain.

Kettle's SICC rotors use carbide, ceramic, carbon construction. The materials in the SICC rotor are *supposed* to be there for cold stopping power which apparently still doesn't work as well compared to steel rotors when using pads designed for steel rotors.

Carbon does dissipate heat insanely quickly so I would think you'd have to try a lot harder to overheat the calipers on a hydro brake. Like has been said I don't own them yet so I wouldn't know. I haven't read anyone complain about brake fade yet.

I'm still going to give them a try once they get their shipping sorted out and they deal with the many customer claims they have right now.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

There are lots of promises made over these rotors and they just do not deliver. I just want to state that I have installed and burned in the rotors as recommended. This includes a torque wrench and cleaning with acetone. These have been used on two brake sets with new pads. Most brake systems have 30-40% extra power beyond locking your wheels. The powerful ones like Shimano and Formula have even more. The Siccc rotor gives you 60-70% of the power to lock the brakes. This is only 50% of steel rotors and there is no reserve power. They work okay at average braking levels with extra pressure on the levers, but as soon as you need oh **** power they are maxed out. No matter how much you crush the level they will not give you more stopping power. Started out with Avid Elixir CR with sintered pad and had no power. The rotors did not like sintered pads. They take forever to burn in and I never dared take them on the trail. Now I have XTR with resin pads, stupid strong on steel rotors. Burn in was much faster and I even took them out on the trails. My experience level is expert and I have built several bikes from the ground up. I was really hoping for good things from these rotors. There have been experiments with Siccc specific pads that are promising. I hope that this is sorted out soon as I really like the idea of super light rotors. 
FYI
My steel rotor modulation is perfect.
A sharp knife is safer than a dull knife.


----------



## Erhar (May 11, 2012)

I see that r2-bike also sells them.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

I am really happy with mine (suit my XC style of riding and set-up)

110 kg, 29er

running 180 front and rear

elixir 9 brakes

only need to use 1 finger to stop, but don't have many massively steep descents when I live in Australia

I would never go back to steel

BUT.....


They take a really really long time to bed in


----------



## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

@ctguru how long?


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Jamie_MTB said:


> @ctguru how long?


I think nearly 100-200km!

They were terrible to start, but are getting better and better everyday I use them

I've got 2 sets, commuter and my off-road trail wheels

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## gotfish8 (Jun 7, 2009)

*I am happy with my rotors, The brake modulation is awesome compared to steel, that is what I really care about. I don't need or want to be able to lockup the wheel and skid. I am able to lock the wheel up if I want to with these rotors. Having your brakes properly adjusted is important, you may need to bleed your brakes to get them right. I had to on the rear.
*


----------



## tequeman (Mar 10, 2013)

pistonbroke said:


> I'm not happy with kettles customer service. Or rather their lack of. I'm in Australia and my rotors were shipped more than 30 days ago. 2 days after shipping the tracking says they were at the sorting facility in Chicago and then nothing since. They seem to be MIA.
> 3 emails to kettle have now gone unanswered. I'm getting pissed off and want my rotors or my money back.
> I know things can and do go wrong but to just ignore customers who laid money down in good faith on an idea is poor form.
> Anyone else having problems? I know they are unhappy about negative comments being posted but maybe if they respond to customers emails it could be avoided.


Did you send the emails through the ticket system? Replying to emails started from a ticket will not reach Kettle Cycles, there is a problem with the web-hosting service that is being resolved, replies must go through the website.

Please make a new ticket or log in and check the status of an older ticket.


----------



## Jcjacob21 (Oct 26, 2010)

Jcjacob21 said:


> Update on my usage (original post #282)- After an extended break-in period, I'm extremely happy. I raced the Counting Coup today (local Socal Race with two approx. 4K ft descents). These things worked incredibly well. I had more power then I needed when charging into a switchback. There were a few stream crossings and I didn't seem to lose any power when they were wet. Also, the power seems to increase slightly as they get warm..the opposite of steel. This is a nice benefit on long descents. They always had enough power, but just more as they warm up. The only negative aspect was the front (180mm) was screeching at times, but it was never constant. At this point, I've put locktite on the rotor bolts and they're staying on!


Some more info on my prior posts:
Burn-in period with XTR trail brakes and resin pads was about 150 miles, possibly longer.

Just to give you an idea of the type of rider I am and my bike - These rotors are on an Epic 29. I weigh 170-175. I typically race expert level Super D/Enduro and also some endurance XC events like the recent Counting Coup in SoCal. In the recent CC, I finished in the top 10 overall out of a field of 140+. According to the holy grail Strava (joke), I had one of the fastest times down the longest descent in the race (Holy Jim) and the fastest time down the steepest section (upper Holy Jim). This trail has a lot of tight switchbacks and high speed sections. I used one finger braking as always and had plenty of power with these rotors. I never experienced any fading!! Do the Ice Tech rotors provide more power? Most likely, but with my setup I was really pleased, particularily with the modulation and no fading (my steel rotors always fade on this descent). Anyway, my point is I'm not a newbie and I didn't want anyone to think I like to p*ssyfoot when descending, and that's why I found these acceptable...


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Jcjacob21 said:


> Some more info on my prior posts:
> Burn-in period with XTR trail brakes and resin pads was about 150 miles, possibly longer.
> 
> Just to give you an idea of the type of rider I am and my bike - These rotors are on an Epic 29. I weigh 170-175. I typically race expert level Super D/Enduro and also some endurance XC events like the recent Counting Coup in SoCal. In the recent CC, I finished in the top 10 overall out of a field of 140+. According to the holy grail Strava (joke), I had one of the fastest times down the longest descent in the race (Holy Jim) and the fastest time down the steepest section (upper Holy Jim). This trail has a lot of tight switchbacks and high speed sections. I used one finger braking as always and had plenty of power with these rotors. I never experienced any fading!! Do the Ice Tech rotors provide more power? Most likely, but with my setup I was really pleased, particularily with the modulation and no fading (my steel rotors always fade on this descent). Anyway, my point is I'm not a newbie and I didn't want anyone to think I like to p*ssyfoot when descending, and that's why I found these acceptable...


If you are fastest down the descents that just means the brakes are not working..........:thumbsup:


----------



## Jcjacob21 (Oct 26, 2010)

006_007 said:


> If you are fastest down the descents that just means the brakes are not working..........:thumbsup:


Ha! Yeah, I was in control for at least a few seconds on that 30 minute descent! Now if I could just find rotors to help me ride faster uphill.... = )


----------



## Erhar (May 11, 2012)

Can't anyone order them from their kickstarter page anymore in those special prices? And if not what's the cost of the 160mm sfl rotors?


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Erhar said:


> Can't anyone order them from their kickstarter page anymore in those special prices? And if not what's the cost of the 160mm sfl rotors?


 <script type="***************" src="//a


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

<script type="***************" src="//a


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Interesting, it summarizes my own experience.
First Impressions: Kettle Cycles SiCCC SFL Carbon Disc Brake Rotors & More News! - Bike Rumor


----------



## cosmotrkr (Apr 11, 2013)

Received my 180 last week. I am using Shimano M-675 SLX's and after mounting rotor and centering caliper, all is silent. Folowed the burn in recommendations to the T, although getting up to 20 MPH isn't a possibility with my setup....lol



























I have put about 40 miles on the new rotors and I love them. There is no comparison to steel when it comes to modulation(as you can imagine very important when using a brake on a unicycle!), and overall braking performance has improved greatly. These things are silent, even in heavy braking situations. They seem to get better every ride!

I know this is a mountain bike forum, just wanted to give another perspective on usage and results with the new Kettle Cycle rotors.

cosmo


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Rad dude!


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Is this thread broken for anyone else when using "Linear Mode" from the Display drop down?


----------



## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

yes


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Still waiting for mine to show up. Kettle sent an e-mail on March 27 or 28 saying they had been shipped. Supplied a USPS tracking number which tells me the package is in a sorting facility. That's a lot of sorting time. I would guess though that the package is actually in transit but stuck in customs at the border or something.


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Mine were shipped on March 27 or 28 said the email from Kettle. USPS tracking number search says the package is still in the sorting facility. My guess is that the package is in transit but stuck in customs at the Canadian border.


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Ha it worked. Whinge about something and then there they are in your in basket at work. They will be installed tonight and bedded in for a test ride. Since I live at the bottom of a long hill I am thinking that will be a great way to bed in.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I posted this before, but it didn't show up in the thread, let's see if it works now, it summarizes my own experience
First Impressions: Kettle Cycles SiCCC SFL Carbon Disc Brake Rotors & More News! - Bike Rumor


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Mounted and bedded in and ridden for an easy ride along the beach. I also rode some easy trails in the local park. Pea gravel freeways. XTR trail brakes, 180 and 160 rotors, resin Shimano pads. Seem to be well bedded in. They lack that bite that metal pads on steel rotors have but they stop fine. I can skid the rear and front brake if I try. I can do stopies too but it takes more body language to do it. The rear is well centred but the front has a little wiggle. I rotated a couple holes on the hub but it still rubs the same. Minor issue though as the wheel spins just fine and it's hard to hear it riding. Will try my torque wrench when I get home to Whistler tomorrow.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Mounted my front 160mm this morning. 

Running XTR race brakes - had to re-bleed to get enough clearance, but managed to get it to fit - barely - but no dragging. I'm using new Alligator organic pads, so we'll see how it goes. (There was a suggestion that folks had more luck with organic, so we'll see.)

Ice Storm here today, so burn-in runs not going to happen. Boo.


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

CarlS said:


> K.... I'm just going to say it outright... They just don't work for me when I need them to. I have 180/160 SFL with brand new XT brakes and organic pads. 150 miles on them. When you get on something with a long steep downhill and need to stop fast, they don't. For 80-90% of the riding I do, yes...they work fairly OK. but they don't work for the super steep-loose-gnarly stuff. seriously... YIKES! I have not heard from anyone that has had success with them in extreme conditions. for XC - light AM riding... sure. but I dropped a hill the other day that had huge vert loss (about 1000 feet in less than a mile of tight switch backs) and they just failed to slow me down fast enough. I had to double finger the lever which I have never had to do with steel rotors. I do hope that Kettle comes out with a better pad material that will work for me. I really want them to work like steel rotors. but they don't with the current pads Im using.
> 
> I hate to slam them, but want to give others a real idea if whats going on. don't talk them up if you have not tried them out in real trail condiitons.


*UPDATE: * I had some success over the weekend by adjusting the levers on my XT brakes out much further than I would with steel rotors. I normaly like having my levers close to the grip as I feel that I have better ability to wrap my hand arund the grip and don't have to "reach out" with my finger to pull the lever. After turning the adj screw several rotations and bringing the lever much further out, this much improved the feel of the brakes. I was able to stop faster going into blind singletrack turns at speed. I was so fed up with these rotors and was about to put steel rotors back on, but now I think I will keep running them. They still don't have the stopping power in extreme conditions, but worked for me for 95% of the ride I did Saturday. I pre-rode the 29 mile Idyllwild Spring Challenge course and if you know this route, the only place that I had trouble was coming down the middle south ridge downhill from the top of may valley road. that part of the trail is really more of a "downhillers" trail very steep, loose and rutted. the rest of the route was fine and I had control of the bike where as before I always thought that I was going to fly off the trai into the bushes and rocks.

So if you have XT brakes and previously liked having levers closer to the grips, try adjusting them out quite a bit. I would bet that there is also room for improvement with the "bite" sdjustment screw, although I have not played with that yet. Before with steel rotors I never noticed any change with stopping power with messing with either adjustments, but with the carbon rotors it seems that they need to be adjusted just right for them to work. I would try to pass this onto Kettle, but I still don't quite understand how their "ticket" feedback system works.


----------



## tequeman (Mar 10, 2013)

CarlS said:


> I would try to pass this onto Kettle, but I still don't quite understand how their "ticket" feedback system works.


Create, or log into, an account on buykettlecycles.com. Click 'My Account' in the upper right hand side of the screen. On the left hand side of the screen under the quick links header click 'Customer Support' which will open a window to create a ticket.

When a ticket is replied to, you will receive an email with a text copy of the reply and a link to the ticket. If you wish to reply to the ticket you must click the link and complete the reply in the browser form. Direct replies in the email are not received.

I know this is not ideal but it is how the system currently works. steps are being taken with the vendor to address this shortcoming.


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

OK I've got a couple rides on them now with another ride in between on my dualie which has standard XT brakes, same rotor sizes 180 and 160. On significantly steep trails the carbon rotors are barely powerful enough. Bike with me is maybe 170 pounds. I'll keep using them for a while but the trails I ride can be pretty steep and technical and strong brakes are needed.


----------



## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

phlegm said:


> Is this thread broken for anyone else when using "Linear Mode" from the Display drop down?


Yes, and it's a real PITA.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Got an interesting mail this morning re the Kickstarter program. Here's a snippet:

"We've since shipped our SiCCC rotors all over the world and a vast majority of customers enjoy their SiCCC rotors and the riding experience that comes with it. But there are those, for whom the experience is too much of a departure from the norm. At the same time we always wanted to simplify the adaptation and make sure our product appeals to as many riders out there as possible. 

We are therefore going forward with implementing C-Processing in house. This results in a more plug and play rotor which is easier to bed in and provides very consistent results for a wide variety of riders. The finished SiCCC rotor becomes more dense and stiff, but it requires standard Resin/Organic or SiCCC pads and delivers a consistent bite at the end stroke with a small reduction in modulation. Under general terms, this is a much closer to a more traditional grabby, power rotor. It will NOT work with sintered, metal, kevlar or unknown pads. C-Processed rotors' complete dislike of all other pads is we moved away from it during development. 

We are offering to C-Process any current SiCCC SFL rotor, free of charge, for anyone preferring a more traditional bite/power feel. All two piece rotors for kickstarter rewards, like all rotors being made from now on, will be shipping C-processed for simplicity and continuity."


----------



## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

I got that too. My rotors have yet to leave the their box so I may ship them out.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I got the same one, I guess this means I'll give them another chance.
It speaks good of Kettle trying to please us "the not so vast majority of their customers" who were not so happy with them.
I'll send them to get them "C-Processed" and keep my fingers crossed.


----------



## MarcoL (Jun 3, 2007)

I will also send them too


----------



## dwaharvey (Mar 3, 2008)

Is there any advice / info on the C-processing vs the SICCC pads they seem to be offering? Forum member Magura seemed to find that using an SICCC-like material for pads solved his power issues with the Kettle rotors. Will a non-C-processed rotor + SICCC pads have as good power as a metal rotor? Or is the point that to get metal-like power one has to C-process the rotor, and then SICCC or organic pads will both perform equally...?


----------



## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

I've been watching these threads. And getting ready to build up a new bike. I could tolerate $100 per rotor. But at $150, they just lost a customer. 

I hope they are successful. But I think they are going to have to get their manufacturing to a point where these rotors are affordable.


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

We have moved SiCCC rotor production to a more traditional bite and feel. Here is the condensed version:

1. IF you like your original SFL rotor, do nothing.
2. IF you want more traditional grab/feel, follow the C- processing instructions and use resin/organics.
3. IF you want excessive grab, follow the C-processing instructions and use SiCCC pads.
4. IF you are waiting for 2 piece rotors, your SiCCC friction ring is already C-Processed and you should use a Organic / Resin pads that have not been used on steel. Or you have the option of buying SiCCC pads, but you should really try them first on a standard orgainic/resin.
5. All future two piece and SFL SiCCC rotors will be C-processed, and only factory race teams etc can get any other processing.
6. All C-Processed rotors have a serial number starting with a C.

Instructions how to get a rotor re-worked.


----------



## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

Aaron will you be making Hope Tech M4 pads?

Also the FREERETURNSHIP doesn't work for international shipping?


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Jamie_MTB said:


> Also the FREERETURNSHIP doesn't work for international shipping?


Another one bites the dust, I already payed my $23.99. 
They could have stated, freereturnship "only US"


----------



## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

It was $19.99 :-(


----------



## tequeman (Mar 10, 2013)

Jamie_MTB said:


> Aaron will you be making Hope Tech M4 pads?
> 
> Also the FREERETURNSHIP doesn't work for international shipping?


The code should work, thank you for bringing this mistake to our attention. International customers please hold tight while we resolve this issue. Doccoraje you will be refunded


----------



## Aaron.S (Apr 26, 2012)

I believe we have fixed the intl. shipping code, only pads/ services can be in the cart.

Those who paid a shipping charge will be refunded.

Those who feel like they need to buy SicCC pads, you really may want to try organics/resin on the Cprocessing first. 
This is all about simplifying. You buy a siccc rotor, you run organic or resin. And the option exist to have even more bite/grab/power with the SiCCCC pads.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Well!!! that was quick, thanks to both of you.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I sent my rotors in and had them C processed should get them back in the next day or two. I will be testing them with Shimano XTR race organic pads. Stay tuned for reports.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

can you use SiCCC pads on the original SiCCC rotors? (non C-processed?)


----------



## tequeman (Mar 10, 2013)

ctguru said:


> can you use SiCCC pads on the original SiCCC rotors? (non C-processed?)


no, the original rotors are not compatible with the SiCCC pads.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

tequeman said:


> no, the original rotors are not compatible with the SiCCC pads.


thanx for the info


----------



## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

Aaron.S said:


> I believe we have fixed the intl. shipping code, only pads/ services can be in the cart.
> 
> Those who paid a shipping charge will be refunded.


It still wants me to pay $23.99

Your OrderEdit
Item	Qty	Total
C-Processing for SFL Rotor Rework	1	$25.00
C-Processing for SFL Rotor Rework	1	$25.00
C-Processing your current rotor [10001-0003][10001-0005]	2	-$50.00
Free return shipping C-Processing [10001-0003][10001-0005]	4	$0.00

Subtotal: 
$0.00
Shipping & Handling: 
$23.99
Tax: 
$0.00
$23.99


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Just thought I'd add this feedback from a mate that put on a 180mm SFL disc on to his MTB (not a C-processed one)



> I put the 180 on the mountain bike and put it through its paces on the weekend. It didn't need much of a bedding in process before i was getting as much bite as i get with a steel rotor. It has a better feel than steel though before that bite point. It feels as hard as steel, but perhaps it is the lack of perforations in the braking track that makes it feel smoother. I did a 45km 1500m climb up and down mt nebo with some very fast long descents with hairpin turns that you need to wash off speed urgently.
> 
> I am leaving it on for the trip to mt buller starting thursday. I am very impressed that they feel so good, not noisy at all, without having changed pads (using xtr finned icetech resin pads).


Seems he's pretty happy


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

MichaelB said:


> Just thought I'd add this feedback from a mate that put on a 180mm SFL disc on to his MTB (not a C-processed one)
> 
> Seems he's pretty happy


Does anyone else find it strange that some people are reporting that they work great and others (like myself) are really not satisfied with the power at all. And using the same exact brake pads? is there a inconsistancy in the rotor production, or what is it? I bed mine in very gradually as per instructions. Would like to meet up with the southern CA rider who says hw raced VC with them. I will be at Rwanda 50 this weekend wearing a MVMG jersery and riding my Orbea with very spooky brakes.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

^ Be more aggressive on the bedding.


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

oh turst me, I'm way beyond bedding. I have 150+ miles on them now. And I have become adjusted to them and can do most of my usual rides, but I'm not satisfied. I will try sending them in for this C finish, and the new pads (too bad I just bought brand new shimano pads) 

It's really hard when I go back and forth between my AM bike with super-powerful brakes and steel rotors to my XC bike with the SICCCrotors. hard to adjust to the lack of power.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

I wonder if the differeing response is a caliper issue, pad issue or even an expectation issue ?

Hard to tell, as it could even be a combination of factors.

Either way, I'm still interested, but don't have the spare cash at the moment.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

CarlS said:


> oh turst me, I'm way beyond bedding. I have 150+ miles on them now. And I have become adjusted to them and can do most of my usual rides, but I'm not satisfied. I will try sending them in for this C finish, and the new pads (too bad I just bought brand new shimano pads)
> 
> It's really hard when I go back and forth between my AM bike with super-powerful brakes and steel rotors to my XC bike with the SICCCrotors. hard to adjust to the lack of power.


If they are like race car pads, it doesn't matter how many miles you have on them, if they weren't bed in properly in the first place.


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Anyone know why Kettle recommends resin for Shimano brakes on their rotors? Feel preference? I tried resin for a while but there wasn't enough bite. Tried new metal pads and there is more bite and I think an acceptable amount of bite.


----------



## skyfire1202 (Jan 21, 2008)

I am using original Formula R1 pads with Scrub Race Day rotors before changed the rotors with SFL rotors without changing or doing anything to the pads, aligned the calipers and they were better than the Scrub rotors the first time I was on the bike on my way to church last Sunday. The church is a couple of kilometers away and I was just bedding them in everytime I stopped for the red lights. There's just a little howling at very low speed right before the bike stops and alignment issues that were solved by adjusting the calipers again (R1s are tight), but aside from that, I am happy with the rotors. I have two more pairs to install on my other wheels, but racing with V-brakes until almost 4 years back when I got too busy, I am not sure I need the C-processing. I haven't raced with disc brakes yet, so I don't know how much bite I really need, but my Scrubs were better than the Vs and these carbon rotors are even better. I'll wait for reviews from those who have had their rotors C-processed.


----------



## WickedLite (Nov 15, 2010)

Agreed Formula R1's are a tight fit. Adjusting mine the past 30 and taking a break now. SFL's do have a slight warp to them which is a peav of mine and is the reason for taking so long aligning. I will try to adjust. If I cannot get it, I will undo, rotate and re tighten as Kettle suggests. Then try before deciding if C-Process is necessary.

I ride pretty aggressive and some of these reviews are scaring me.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

WickedLite said:


> Agreed Formula R1's are a tight fit. Adjusting mine the past 30 and taking a break now. SFL's do have a slight warp to them which is a peav of mine and is the reason for taking so long aligning. I will try to adjust. If I cannot get it, I will undo, rotate and re tighten as Kettle suggests. Then try before deciding if C-Process is necessary.
> 
> I ride pretty aggressive and some of these reviews are scaring me.


Pls use shim over the bolts head direct contact with rotors if you want to do so...


----------



## WickedLite (Nov 15, 2010)

jos3ph4ever said:


> Pls use shim over the bolts head direct contact with rotors if you want to do so...


I know how to shim and adjust brakes but I do not understand exactly what your sentence means jos3ph4ever. Can you be more clear.

I found I can bend my SFL rotors straight like steel rotors while mounted. Only a hair rub now. Will see if they have found their original shape today.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

*.*



WickedLite said:


> I know how to shim and adjust brakes but I do not understand exactly what your sentence means jos3ph4ever. Can you be more clear.
> 
> I found I can bend my SFL rotors straight like steel rotors while mounted. Only a hair rub now. Will see if they have found their original shape today.


Yikes, didn't know bending these was an option. (?)


----------



## WickedLite (Nov 15, 2010)

phlegm said:


> Yikes, didn't know bending these was an option. (?)


Well it's more of a finesse tweak of a mm here and there... NOT an 30° bend or anything.

My result was a nice alignment with no rub noise... That is until I braked and back to original warp.

Only a hair of space in the F1's.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

I find it more plausible that the mounting surface of a hub is off vs these being off


----------



## WickedLite (Nov 15, 2010)

Ilikemtb999 said:


> I find it more plausible that the mounting surface of a hub is off vs these being off


Extralite is pretty precise with their machining but I will look into it.


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

Ilikemtb999 said:


> I find it more plausible that the mounting surface of a hub is off vs these being off


NO. not in my experience. Mine used to be perfectly straight and now after sevral long bouble fingered "oh shi*" downhill episodes, now I am noticing some run out and even a little noise now from the rear.


----------



## Gilarider (Jul 13, 2009)

Ilikemtb999 said:


> I find it more plausible that the mounting surface of a hub is off vs these being off


One of mine started off straight, and after taking it off and putting it back on it is a bit out of true. I think the mounting bolts can crush the carbon a little, either on install or under braking stress. Then they don't mount up straight anymore.

There was a little crunching sound on tightening some of the bolts the first time, Kettle's site says that is normal. Of course, I could have been overtightening the bolts, but I went to the low end of what I consider safe on a rotor, where it won't loosen up after a while. I figured I would rather have the rotor break in my garage than on the trail because I left the bolts loose.

I would guess the open back of the bolt holes on the SFL rotors makes it easier for the rotor to deform. Maybe I am wrong about the bolt holes causing them to go out of true, whatever, I just wanted to say mine went out of true also.


----------



## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

sounds like blue loctite and light torque would help or perhaps a shim or small washer to spread the pressure


----------



## skyfire1202 (Jan 21, 2008)

What I noticed was that one of my rotors had some debris in the mounting slits that I couldn't fit some of the rotor bolts in. They were of the same material as the rotor like if you cut a hard plastic with a grinder and it gets to hot that the plastic starts to melt and hardens around the portion you ground. That's how it looked so I took a round file and removed those debris. I think these debris are the reason why the rotors won't mount flat on the hubs, but I don't know about the tolerances of different hub brands when they are made so I may be wrong. I have installed only 1 pair, I'll check my 2 other pairs and if I can see the same thing, I'll take a picture later when I come home and post it here.


----------



## campaleches (Mar 23, 2009)

Same experience here. Front rotor mounted straight out of the box, but not any longer. I bolted the rotor as per Kettle specs using a Park Tool torque wrench


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Hmm interesting news for sure. I'm still waiting on my two piece rotors. I'm hoping they won't have the same issues as the 1 piece.....


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Ilikemtb999 said:


> Hmm interesting news for sure. I'm still waiting on my two piece rotors. I'm hoping they won't have the same issues as the 1 piece.....


They shouldn't do, as the problem with the sfl rotors are having just slits for the mounting bolts instead of holes which you get on normal rotors and the 2 piece rotors.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

C processed ones. Look a little darker and thinner. Going for a ride on them tomorrow.


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Mine work a lot better with the metal Shimano pads. I never liked organic or resin pads around here because they do not grip any rotor well enough for my tastes and needs. Many of Whistler and North Vancouver descents are steep and slow so you are on the brakes the whole time to keep the speed down. Often enough when I tried resins I would get going too fast and blow through corners into the toolies. or I would have to start braking well back of whatever corner or feature I was coming up on. 

You can't change the power of the brake by changing the rotor but you can change the grip. I am thinking the claims of better modulation Kettle make are really just claims of less grip. I find that after about five hours of riding with the metal pads that that combo works better for me. Not as much grip as metal on steel rotors, but close enough. 

All considered I am disappointed in the performance though. They are lighter and quieter so I will keep them on for the time being.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

*.*



alexbn921 said:


> C processed ones. Look a little darker and thinner. Going for a ride on them tomorrow.


Thanks huge time for sharing. Thinner would be welcomed as I could barely fit the originals into my XTR setup. Plz post as to grabbing power. (Also, plz indicate brake pads you are using.)


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

****Update****
First some setup
XTR race with new resin pads.
DT swiss 240 hubs
locktighted on with titanium bolts to 30in/lbs
C-processed 180mm +-1mm true
Okay so I ran them on the front for 20-30 miles ending in a 25 minute downhill that I took at a slow speed and dragged the brakes on and off. The caliper got pretty hot and the pads glazed by the time I was at the bottom. Never even close to enough power for a front brake. Removed and remounted on the back with freshly sanded pads. Did a couple test runs and there seems to be minimum safe level of power ie I can lock the rear wheel with some effort. This is okay because the XTR's with 180mm is super overkill power and a lot less should work perfect. I'm going to order the SiCCC Brake Pads for the front and see how they work out. If they can match the feel of steel I would be happy.
So new C processed with resin pads still lack the power of steel and are only a small improvement over the original.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for the update Alex, not exactly the news I wanted to hear, I'll do my own testing as soon as I get them back, but the cost of shipping back and forth, mmhh! well, I was told I was going to be refunded, when? that's another story.


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Is there some other labeling to distinguish between C-Processed rotors and non? The "Darker and thinner" visual is fine if you happen to have two side-by-side, but how else can one tell the diff?


----------



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

nsxtc said:


> Is there some other labeling to distinguish between C-Processed rotors and non? The "Darker and thinner" visual is fine if you happen to have two side-by-side, but how else can one tell the diff?


One of the reps said early that the new manufactured rotors will have a "C" at the beginning of the serial number


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

*..*



WarBoom said:


> One of the reps said early that the new manufactured rotors will have a "C" at the beginning of the serial number


Correct - you can see that in Alex' first photo. Thx again for sharing Alex.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Anyone tried C processed rotors with the new Kettle manufactured pads?


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

I have given a good north shore test to non c processed rotors, XTR trail brakes with Shimano metal pads. Better grip than resin pads, but not as grabby as with the ice tech rotors. No noise to speak of. I went through a number of wet patches and did not notice any difference in braking. I think I like them grabby though. I really had to pull hard in a number of higher risk places to keep my speed down. It may be that these rotors are not North Shore compatible. Maybe c processed with their pads would work better?


----------



## velojonthan (Feb 10, 2013)

Sorry I bothered to read this thread for a month instead of installing my non c process 160 SFL rotors. They took normal setting up, not sure about you guys but my XT's are a sealed system and didn't require any bleeding, just following of Shimano's instructions and depressing the piston's when installing new pads (Swiss Stop Organic). I weight about 190 lbs with riding gear +24 lbs bike.

I was pretty nervous about running these, and I was waiting around for someone to really demonstrate that they can be ridden hard. My old pads were worn and I didn't want to wait any longer despite my worry that these will get me hurt.

First Ride:
Due to all of the negative review on this forum I chose the first ride to be on non technical fire roads with a lot of climbing and downhill. I didn't want to fly off a cliff lined single track if the review were true. I did not adjust the calipers after putting the rotors on so they rubbed a bit, and the levers were a bit far away considering the slight increase in break pressure required to lock the wheels up. However 6k downhill with no scares or close calls. Just easier to slow down safely on very loose dirt and gravel due to great modulation, and no fade at the end of longer open sections. These benefits do require you to squeeze the lever a bit harder in some conditions, and the power does not come in an on off manner that we are accustomed to with the modern disc brakes. 
Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Powered by 2 empanadas and a sprite/HR/Power Data is WAY off... near Los Gatos | Times and Records | Strava

Second ride:
They were dialed for the next ride where I took them to fairly technical singletrack where if you go off the trail, your not going to work for a while... Had no problems. When I wanted to, I was able to keep a higher average speed than normal without feeling scared as I knew the power was there and it would slow me down without being jerky. 
Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Shredding + Aerobics near Redwood City | Times and Records | Strava

Conclusion:
If you want to lock the wheel up, squeeze a bit harder than on metal rotors......

If you want to slow down to < 5mph before each corner on a long downhill your hands will probably get exhausted and you will think these rotors suck.

However, these do work as advertised.


----------



## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

well, thanks you guys for getting this off the ground for the rest of us


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Aaron.S said:


> I believe we have fixed the intl. shipping code, only pads/ services can be in the cart.
> Those who paid a shipping charge will be refunded.


Any news about refunds?


----------



## velojonthan (Feb 10, 2013)

*Can we start a new thread?*



doccoraje said:


> Any news about refunds?


This is the thread about the "carbon brake rotors" and your subjective/objective reviews. I think it's important that this new (to biking) technology be tested by the end user and we share our experiences for others to make their own decisions.

If we need to have an Internet discussion about shipping and handling can you guys start a new thread and this one be about riding the product?


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

velojonthan said:


> This is the thread about the "carbon brake rotors" and your subjective/objective reviews. I think it's important that this new (to biking) technology be tested by the end user and we share our experiences for others to make their own decisions.
> 
> If we need to have an Internet discussion about shipping and handling can you guys start a new thread and this one be about riding the product?


Cool down, I'm asking because I posted here before MY experiences and was told here by Aaron that there was going to be a refund for shipping charges of my "carbon brake rotors" sent for C-processing.


----------



## tequeman (Mar 10, 2013)

please use the ticket function doccoraje


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

tequeman said:


> please use the ticket function doccoraje


Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

velojonthan said:


> Conclusion:
> If you want to lock the wheel up, squeeze a bit harder than on AL rotors.......
> However, these do work as advertised.


Just curious, which Al rotors were you using?


----------



## velojonthan (Feb 10, 2013)

doccoraje said:


> Just curious, which Al rotors were you using?


Several Verieties of Hope Saw. Avid Clean Sweep XX. Shimano XT

160's


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

velojonthan said:


> Several Verieties of Hope Saw. Avid Clean Sweep XX. Shimano XT
> 
> 160's


Those are not AL, the only Al rotors I know are Stan's and they are discontinued.


----------



## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

Any updates on C processed rotors?


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Jamie_MTB said:


> Any updates on C processed rotors?


I haven't got mine back yet, but I got the shipping charge refunded.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Still anxiously waiting for my "2 piece" rotors. I had to buy steel rotors so I could finally ride this season


----------



## pistonbroke (Mar 26, 2007)

Annoyed. 
I paid for my rotors in December and they were due in February. They were posted in early March but lost in transit. Thank you DHL. Kettle said they would send another set and I'm still waiting. I have not received any tracking details or even confirmation that they've been sent. 
Where are my rotors???
They are no longer responding to my enquires and I have now asked for a refund. 
Terrible customer service. Be warned.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

C processed rotor are almost identical to first batch as far as braking power and modulation is concerned. Power sucks and modulation is amazing. I have been using a 180mm on the rear and it has great feel at the limit and has not overheated. 180mm has the same power as a 140mm or small rotor. I also ordered the pads to tried out on the front. Until they come in, the steal stays on. Kettle might be working on 3rd generation SFL rotor that has a carrier to better handle the bolt loads and stop warping.


----------



## pistonbroke (Mar 26, 2007)

Sent to me via pm


tequeman said:


> Please email [email protected] about your missing rotor/refund. I cant tell who you are on this forum. Please understand that there are only 3 of us and I am doing everything in my power to answer emails expediently.


I have emailed you. I have also sent 2 enquires through your ticket system that have gone unanswered. Where are my rotors? Or where is my refund?


----------



## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

I've also sent several emails and opened a support ticket. Yet no replies :-(


----------



## JDaugherty (Sep 15, 2005)

This is a reply that I got from Kettle Cycles with regards to my inquiry through their ticket system about the 180mm two piece rotors from Kickstarter commitment .

---5/16/2013 reply---

"We should have the rotors shipping out next week.

We understand the frustration of the extended wait. The push back of those who missed the second paragraph in the introduction and thought they were donating to launch a lighter rotor that behaved exactly like current steel rotors caused a major shift on our end.

The SFLs can be altered, two piece cannot be once fused. That fact, along with bringing along pads faster than we planned and doing all we can for the sfl backers got the time lines sideways and the material delays compounded to make matters worse. The grinder destroying several thousand in product was just icing on the cake. We have worked day and night and believe we have made the changes necessary to appease the 'just make it lighter' crowd and those who read the information and decided the refined braking we envisioned was appealing. No matter what our stopping distance data said, opinions written about "power loss" and criticizing the material as opposed to our chosen behavior meant we had to make changes to show the SiCCC material is the right material, when mated to the right pad, to be the brake rotor of the future in cycling.

Thank you for your patience and understanding."


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

They sent that message to everyone on kickstarter


----------



## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

The mass reply comes across a little smug and conveys a staunch belief that they're product was not the problem but rather their customers had a duty to adjust to how Kettle feels brakes are supposed to function.

Am I off the mark here?


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Jon Richard said:


> The mass reply comes across a little smug and conveys a staunch belief that they're product was not the problem but rather their customers had a duty to adjust to how Kettle feels brakes are supposed to function.
> 
> Am I off the mark here?


I do think they were quite clear on what they were trying to produce, and what I have read so far from a few people would suggest that they are justified in this response. People always perceived Hope brakes to be lacking in power due to the fantastic modulation as the majority considered power to be the on/off feeling of most brakes lacking in any type of modulation.

Before you ask, no I have not tried these rotors yet. I am waiting patiently for my SFL's to arrive. I run Hope V2's which have amazing power and modulation, but I do still need to pull the lever some distance due to this modulation. I don't consider this a problem, but a plus when it comes to complete control over my bike as on loose gravel you can slow super quick without any sliding. I'm hoping that these rotors will just give me the best allround braking performance you can get. Heres hoping!!


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Jon Richard said:


> The mass reply comes across a little smug and conveys a staunch belief that they're product was not the problem but rather their customers had a duty to adjust to how Kettle feels brakes are supposed to function.
> 
> Am I off the mark here?


I didn't feel that way at all. They've been honest this whole time IMO


----------



## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks for the replies, I didn't want to make a snap judgment over the way that read to me.

I have a pair of the pre C processed units in 180/160 that I have yet to try. I'm running MT8's and am machining my own pads from carbenix. The Maguras are already great in the modulation department so I am a little unsure what to expect from this combo.


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Reading the reports on 'hucking kitty' about the carbenix pads, I think you will have a very good setup. I'm going to be ordering a load of these pads from Magura once they start producing them for the V2's.


----------



## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

Yes, Mr. Magura is the man. I was confident enough with his reports to go this route, now I just need to make it happen. Will be awesome to get some feedback from you with the V2's.


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

You can be assured I will be posting my findings once I receive my SFL rotors and get the chance to ride them once broken in. I was hoping to have them soon, but with all the set backs I'm probably looking at early June. This will at least give Magura the chance to start producing the pads I wish to use with them, so timings are looking good in this department.


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Anyone got their two piece yet? If they shipped last week (per KC's mass email below), people should be getting them in this week.



JDaugherty said:


> This is a reply that I got from Kettle Cycles with regards to my inquiry through their ticket system about the 180mm two piece rotors from Kickstarter commitment .
> 
> ---5/16/2013 reply---
> 
> ...


----------



## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Has anyone experienced squeling noise with Formula R1 brakes and Formula organic pads?

I only mounted the front forst, braking is ok with lots of modulation, nut that noise!

On a downhill or rapid stop to a standstill they are ok, but for modulating speed on a singletrack the noise is killing me. 

What pads are you guys using with R1's?


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

nsxtc said:


> Anyone got their two piece yet? If they shipped last week (per KC's mass email below), people should be getting them in this week.


Nope. Still waiting.....


----------



## bikerider2 (Nov 9, 2011)

Well the good news for me is that Kettle has effectively cured me of supporting any Kickstarter programs. This may eventually (I hope) turn out to be a great product if they can ever get it produced. Hopefully Kettle, can get a handle on their production issues and try to create some positive marketing spin going forward rather than over promising and under delivering.


----------



## pistonbroke (Mar 26, 2007)

+1
It's now 7 months since I paid for mr sfl rotors and 5 months since they were due for delivery. It's 4 months since they were posted to me and 2 months since I lost faith in Kettle. 
I still have received no rotors. 
They say the first set was not claimed and returned to sender. 
They say they posted a second set but have provided no evidence of that to this date. 
Now they say they will c process the first set that was returned to sender and send them to me but this will take a few more weeks. 
So over this.


----------



## WickedLite (Nov 15, 2010)

I must add my full Kettle Cycles SFL Rotor review now. 

I received my SFL's a few weeks after original specified delivery date. 
Company contact was always there from emails to calls.
I did have trouble preventing one slight drag spot in my Formula R1's as it is tiiiight. 
I did small burn ins and took them out to trails. I was very worried from reading this thread but on every extreme xc ride I went on, these worked as as good as it gets, like my Hopes on Hope rotors. I'm 145lbs with a 16lb bike and ride hard. No fade. I love them.

I agree as a business, Kettle could have speculated the amount of orders they were going to get but if you own a small business, that is very hard to do. They could have gave better delivery estimates but that is hard to do not knowing the demand would be so high. And from what I hear, better quality control from the get go would have been better for them as well as the consumer. I did not have this problem.

But from my experience for a new, small company with an innovative product and a more than expected wave of orders right out of the gate, I would like to commend them. 

It's small companies like this that need support to produce great things for us that other big corporates won't. From what I understand they are fixing issues from what I understand others are having. What else could you ask for from a new, small company company with an innovative product. 

Mine are crazy light and work great!


----------



## tooclosetosee (Aug 2, 2011)

Does anyone else think of the Louis CK bit when they read this thread? 
"Everything is amazing and nobody is happy" - Video Dailymotion
Skip to 3:50 for the part that I am thinking about.

I understand that you bought a product on kickstarter and think that you are owed something. The company is a startup and bumps in the road are expected. You did not buy a manufactured product from an established company. You invested into a startup company and pre-ordered something in the hopes that they could deliver.

Everything I have heard is that Kettle is working hard to make everyone happy. They have a lot more invested into making this product work than you do and probably want it to succeed more than anyone else. I am sure they want this to be a profitable venture for them.

Like I said, I'm not saying that you should be happy about it. But, I don't understand why everyone is so surprised that there are bumps in the road and angry.


----------



## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

Back in November I suggested that the guy sitting in his kitchen in the townhome in the middle of Illinios might be incapable of manufacturing a suitable product, and I pointed out how he was lying about the nationwide support that he claimed he had. The pedants jumped all over me, pointing out my lack of knowledge about modern business practices and how they were experts in carbon fiber technology. To them I ask, how much more money and time is needed to fulfill the promises? To the unfortunate majority who now have an inferior product or nothing at all, chalk this one up as a learning experience.


----------



## tequeman (Mar 10, 2013)

Rusty, please take you blind speculation elsewhere. Everything you post about Kettle is just plain wrong.


----------



## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

What's incorrect, tequeman? Did you not read his web page naming a nationwide network of dealers that did not exist? Has he now moved out of his condo and into a legitimate place of business? EVERYTHING that I posted about this fiasco was 100% accurate as of 11/10/2012. Has something changed?

What is YOUR connection with this enterprise that gives you such keen insight?


----------



## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

RustyIron said:


> an inferior product.


sounds like it just doesn't have the same stopping power but better modulation and people expected the power. If they had been upfront about that it would have avoided confusion and been better for kettle as well as the customer


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

My trail brakes have all the stopping power I need and not enough modulation so I'm hoping these are the perfect cure to get some feel into my brakes. I'm still hopeful


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Whilst I didn't participate in the Kick Starter, I did so because of the level of risk that was potentially there. That's what happens sometimes, and why the price is cheaper.

We are so used to now with the internet based stores getting something so quick and easy, that when it sometiomes doesn't go right (for a variety of reasons), we are quite upset.

I'm hanging back for a while, but will still give these a go when the dust has settled. The penalty will be added cost, but I'll wear that.

In the meantime, I'm doing something else with my brake system whilst I wait.

I hope that they get it sorted, it seems like they are really trying, but not making the headway that will keep people happy.


----------



## bikerider2 (Nov 9, 2011)

MichaelB said:


> Whilst I didn't participate in the Kick Starter, I did so because of the level of risk that was potentially there. That's what happens sometimes, and why the price is cheaper.
> 
> We are so used to now with the internet based stores getting something so quick and easy, that when it sometiomes doesn't go right (for a variety of reasons), we are quite upset.
> 
> ...


I think we all understood that this was a start up and new it was untested in the mtb industry. I took heart in the fact the product is used on race cars and race motorcycles, so was comfortable that the product could work for our application. But the problem is that they keep updating their kickstarter funders and sites and continue to miss their own dates. I also understand that projecting a date of March in November was a guess and if they met that target it would have been great. I gave them a window of 30-45 days to work it out. But in April when you project a date of the end of May and you miss it? The last update two weeks ago was we'll start shipping next week and then nothing? Radio silence.

Today, their FB states large batches from the grinder with an update soon. Here's hoping the product works as advertised and they can figure out their timing issues.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Agree, missing dates more than once is not good, and lack of info hurts ,but they seem to be trying.

I'm still interested


----------



## TrueBeliever (Dec 26, 2012)

So, What does SFL stand for?


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Super fu&$ing light? So freaking late?


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

I have had 2 sets for ages now and am really happy with the product


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Uh, how can that be? Some of us haven't even received our first order yet and its only been 4 months since they've started shipping.

Are these carbon rotors other than the KC one?



ctguru said:


> I have had 2 sets for ages now and am really happy with the product


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Brilliant!

SFL=



someoldfart said:


> So freaking late?


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

nsxtc said:


> Uh, how can that be? Some of us haven't even received our first order yet and its only been 4 months since they've started shipping.
> 
> Are these carbon rotors other than the KC one?


Ages?

Well I've had 2 sets since the 15th March and use them nearly everyday on my off-road commute to work

I think 3 months of use is ages in this context


----------



## bayareaflip (Jun 12, 2008)

*WTF! My money is being held hostage*



ctguru said:


> Ages?
> 
> Well I've had 2 sets since the 15th March and use them nearly everyday on my off-road commute to work
> 
> I think 3 months of use is ages in this context


Weeks, months of broken promises and excuses for the 2piece rotors!
From the latest update, they might end up offering the ugly arse SFL rotors for the 2 piece because they seem to be ruining into issues with them. What the f$€£ happened to "everything looks good, and they should be rolling out next week"! Grinding my teeth and pulling my hair out--- I would start firing people if I was their CEO. 2 piece kickstarter would get discounts on future products....hmn... I don't know. They can't even get the 2 piece right. I'd say give us some loaners til they get the 2 piece right....


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Where/how did you get the last update? I've been sending emails and no responses. 

I'm OK about the delays, but come on KC, reach out to your Kickstarter supporters and keep them up to date. It's all about setting expectations. Right now, we have none.


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

someoldfart said:


> Super fu&$ing light? So freaking late?


Harsh, but funny.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I got a 180 & 203mm SFL set in March for my enduro bike. back then they said they worked great with Formula sintered pads. After burn-in everything was great except they weren't very straight and rubbed. I straightened them the same way you would with steel but they kept retaking their warped shape and eventually the rear snapped from my bending it. Kettle said their first batch didn't come out as straight as they wanted and they'd since changed grinding partners. I sent both rotors back and just received the replacements (along with 160 & 203mm sets for my XC and DH bikes). I noticed that they now say to only use resin/organic pads with them. I'll email them about the change in recommendation but since I have some Formula Organic pads I'll try them. I haven't mounted them yet to verify the straightness. That's happening in an hour.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Lelandjt said:


> I got a 180 & 203mm SFL set in March for my enduro bike. back then they said they worked great with Formula sintered pads. After burn-in everything was great except they weren't very straight and rubbed. I straightened them the same way you would with steel but they kept retaking their warped shape and eventually the rear snapped from my bending it. Kettle said their first batch didn't come out as straight as they wanted and they'd since changed grinding partners. I sent both rotors back and just received the replacements (along with 160 & 203mm sets for my XC and DH bikes). I noticed that they now say to only use resin/organic pads with them. I'll email them about the change in recommendation but since I have some Formula Organic pads I'll try them. I haven't mounted them yet to verify the straightness. That's happening in an hour.


IMO I think the rotors are flat/staright/true when new, but at soon as you put them on (even with a torque wrench), they crush differently at the bolts when tightened (hope this makes sense). They seem to deform on the hub/inner side of the rotor and not the bolt side

I think they need to come with some kind of washer system to distribute the load when they are tightened on the hub

just my 2 cents


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I suspected this but I was careful to evenly torque them and Kettle didn't say anything about it. They made it sound like they had heard of some wobbly rotors and the newer run is straighter. I'll find out in a minute.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

I took mine off recently to have a look and thats when I found the crushing against the hub. I also used a torque wrench to their specs


----------



## bikerider2 (Nov 9, 2011)

nsxtc said:


> Where/how did you get the last update? I've been sending emails and no responses.
> 
> I'm OK about the delays, but come on KC, reach out to your Kickstarter supporters and keep them up to date. It's all about setting expectations. Right now, we have none.


 It's on their website. Updates

Read the last paragraph - 2 piece resolution in days - that was posted on June 6th. I guess they have a different definition of resolution in days....


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I installed the new rotors on my DH bike with Formula organic pads and everything's greqt. They are dead straight and ran drag free all day. I figured they'd burn in during my first couple runs but surprisingly power and feel were great right from the start.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I put the replacement 2nd gen 7 & 8" rotors on my enduro bike today and same thing goes as above. They're perfect but having never used organic pads before I'm anxious to see what pad life will be. I've always gotten really long life with sintered & steel rotors and over the winter the sintered pads I used with the 1st gen SiCCC rotors showed little wear.


----------



## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Just a request for future comments on the performance of these brake discs: please specify if you have the C-processed version or the older one. I'm very interested in any input on the newest revision, especially when paired with the proprietary brake pads (but these may not be available yet?).


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^"New, replacement, and 2nd gen" means c-processed. I haven't heard anything about brake pads but I'll get a pair when they're available to compare to the Formula organics.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> ^"New, replacement, and 2nd gen" means c-processed.


Good to know that at least someone finally got the C-processed rotors back, it gives me some hope to receive mine in the near future.
There is not much info from Kettle.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Lelandjt said:


> I put the replacement 2nd gen 7 & 8" rotors on my enduro bike today and same thing goes as above. They're perfect but having never used organic pads before I'm anxious to see what pad life will be. I've always gotten really long life with sintered & steel rotors and over the winter the sintered pads I used with the 1st gen SiCCC rotors showed little wear.


I'm 3 months on organic and still going strong with Avid orig pads

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

@ ctguru

Is that with original SFL rotors or the 'c' processed ones ?

I'm guessing that it's the original ones ?

No minor warping issues at all ? Have you found that the grip levels have chnaged since you started ?


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

MichaelB said:


> @ ctguru
> 
> Is that with original SFL rotors or the 'c' processed ones ?
> 
> ...


originals

I've got 2 sets, one is true and the other a bit warped on the hub

I haven't taken them off to see if its the hub or the disc that's causing the warping

Grip levels are al ot better than when I first put them on, they took ages to bed in

I'm happy with them, apart from the waqrped ones are a bit noisy and don't stop as good due to the warp. when I get a chance I will take them off and see if the disc is warped.

As I said before I think some of the warping is due to the epoxy crushing at different rates when you mount them to your hub, even if you use a torque wrench


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Bought a pair from R-2 bikes in Germany back in April and finally got the shipping info from them today. Looking on their web site they have them in stock so the new C process rotors are rolling out to the masses! can't wait to give them a burn in.


----------



## gotfish8 (Jun 7, 2009)

I used rotor shims Universal Cycles -- Syntace 0.2mm Disc Brake Rotor Shims under the bolts to try and prevent the warping issue people are seeing. I have not had any issues. I have been running the original v1's with xx organic pads. No complaints here.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

gotfish8 said:


> I used rotor shims Universal Cycles -- Syntace 0.2mm Disc Brake Rotor Shims under the bolts to try and prevent the warping issue people are seeing. I have not had any issues. I have been running the original v1's with xx organic pads. No complaints here.


great idea, just ordered some


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Some others have suggested something similar (from American Classic)

DISC REINFORCING RING

But the overall consensus is that this isn't really sufficient, as it doesn't provide the level of stiffness required , and that something that is closer to 3mm in thickness is better.

Then promptly made some of these ...

http://huckingkitty.com/forums/download/file.php?id=626&mode=view


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

MichaelB said:


> Some others have suggested something similar (from American Classic)
> 
> DISC REINFORCING RING
> 
> ...


not sure I understand

I'm using the shim to distribute load on the carbon rotor, so when tightning the epoxy doesn't crush

not using shim to stiffen rotor


----------



## bayareaflip (Jun 12, 2008)

*So annoyed!*

Where are my 2 piece Rotors???
Can't get a straight answer from these guys. Original release was in March. It's almost July dammit A friend told me that they're re designing the two piece rotors and scrapping the old version..... Simply means longer waiting time!
Sucks!!!


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

bayareaflip said:


> Where are my 2 piece Rotors???
> Can't get a straight answer from these guys. Original release was in March. It's almost July dammit A friend told me that they're re designing the two piece rotors and scrapping the old version..... Simply means longer waiting time!
> Sucks!!!


The short answer is, "It's gonna be a while." The 2 piece rotors should solve the problems people are experiencing with the 1 piece rotors when mounting to spindly disc mounts. However, the 1 piece are available in every size right now. So, spend a little more, maybe use shims to help support the rotor if your hub's disc tabs are small, and have a lighter rotor right now. Or wait an unspecified amount of time for a product that's not available yet but will be cheaper, a little heavier, and likely run straighter on any hub.

In the bike industry you're often dealing with small companies that run into production problems usually because of issues with their suppliers. Don't count on anything being available until the day it ships. I understand some people paid way in advance and are bummed over the long delay but you took that risk on a new company and a future product. I waited till they said the rotors I wanted were available, ordered, and have been riding them happily since.

The whole pay-in-advance Kickstarter thing is a little weird but you chose to participate in it. Besides that, this situation is no different than the Ibis Ripley, DVO Emerald, and numerous other MTB products whose development times ran way past their anticipated release dates.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

ctguru said:


> not sure I understand
> 
> I'm using the shim to distribute load on the carbon rotor, so when tightning the epoxy doesn't crush
> 
> not using shim to stiffen rotor


The thicker 'plate' is not to stiffen the rotor, but to better distribute the clamping load.

The thinner shims will do something, but will still allow more local deformation than the thicker 'plate'.

For some, the thinner shims may be suitable, but for others not.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

MichaelB said:


> The thicker 'plate' is not to stiffen the rotor, but to better distribute the clamping load.
> 
> The thinner shims will do something, but will still allow more local deformation than the thicker 'plate'.
> 
> For some, the thinner shims may be suitable, but for others not.


no worries


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Got my C process SFL 180mm rotors the other day and had a chance to install them today. Running them with Hope Tech Evo V2's with EBC red pads.

These rotors are just the best.:thumbsup: Super light, saving just over 100g per rotor. Very quick to burn in getting the front and rear to lock with very little braking action in a few brake burns. If anything I think I would have preferred the original incarnation of these rotors with more modulation, not that I need it with the Hope brakes.

Very quickly they have produced a strong braking performance. I have used Hope rotor spacers on top to spread the load of the bolts and didn't hear any unwanted noises when torquing up the bolts.

First proper ride tomorrow morning so expecting them to just get better and better the longer into the ride. So far top marks to Kettle cycles for these rotors. :rockon:


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Hoping to be able to say the same about them. When? well, who knows....
Still waiting for the C-processed, two and a half months and counting


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

+1.



doccoraje said:


> Hoping to be able to say the same about them. When? well, who knows....
> Still waiting for the C-processed, two and a half months and counting


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^For 1 piece or 2 piece?


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> ^For 1 piece or 2 piece?


Original SFL, sent back for C-processing, the lack of info from Kettle is what is killing us.
We'll keep waiting until........


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

I have kickstarter 180/160 SFL rotors for sale if anyone is interested. $150 for both. They are NOT "C" prcessed yet. I just don't want to deal with it anymore, going back to steel.


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm interested. How much postage to the UK?


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

I send you a PM. anyone else interested just send me a PM. so as not to derail the thread any further...


----------



## colmor (Dec 17, 2011)

doccoraje said:


> Original SFL, sent back for C-processing, the lack of info from Kettle is what is killing us.
> We'll keep waiting until........


Same here. Sent in my 200 and 160 in for C-processing as soon as they offered it and the last response I've had was 2 weeks ago saying they would ship no later than a few days from then. Both of mine were warped, the 180 barely and 200 pretty bad. Laying it on a machinist's straight edge you could see the deviation in the rotor itself, so I don't think it's coming from the mounting so much as it is the rotor that's simply warped and no way of "straightening" them. :-/ They claimed they are going to fix that too(??). Waiting...


----------



## Zak (Jul 12, 2004)

They've had my rotors for c-processing since May 15th. Multiple emails and Facebook heckling have failed to produce a response. Has anyone received any info from Kettle? I'm all for supporting the little guy making cool stuff, but the lack of communication is annoying and unprofessional.


----------



## colmor (Dec 17, 2011)

And suddenly, they arrived in the mail today! Just did some burning in and I will say that the the C-processing gives much better grip. After 10 burn-in passes they already feel to have about twice the stopping grip over the originals when they were fully bedded in. They aren't the same grip as steel, yet, time might deal with that. 
Kettle Cycles upgraded my back rotor from a 160 to a 180! :thumbsup:
And I think I might have the very first C200.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

colmor said:


> And suddenly, they arrived in the mail today! And I think I might have the very first C200.


When did you send them for C-processing? Trying to figure out when mine could be sent back.


----------



## colmor (Dec 17, 2011)

I had sent them in around Apr 20.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks, it gives some hope, my order was on Apr 22.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

It's odd that people are experiencing a varying degree of customer service. All my emails have been replied to quickly and today I got a phone call asking if I'd recieved my 160s yet. While on the phone he said carbon pads will be ready to ship in less than a month.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

As far as communication goes, I've had nothing but good experiences, i've exchanged emails and phone calls without issue.

Just painfully and anxiously waiting for 2 piece rotors.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Well, I just got an email!!! and it seems great news.
"Hello,
C-processed Rotors are returning from the grinder in batches next week.
And replacement rotors are right behind those.
In order to ensure the best ride experience – we suggest using our pads and not pads designed for steel. And for the wait - we are including a set of our pads per rotor, free of charge.
As we prepare to ship these back, we will fix international orders that should not have been charged shipping. If you paid for our pads when you filled out the c-processing 'order' we will refund those."


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Anyone got their 2 piece yet? Radio silent from KC. Bueller?


----------



## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

Nope. Still waiting since mid-May. Best 1000$ I have spend in a while ;-)


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

nsxtc said:


> Anyone got their 2 piece yet? Radio silent from KC.


Not about two pieces but, I got an e-mail from them 8 days ago:

"Rotors are now ready to ship. We are going to provide free SiCCC pads to all customers who have experienced a long wait for their product. Pads will be ready in about three weeks. You qualify for free pads but we cannot afford to send the pads and rotors separately. If you would like I can send your rotors today but you would not receive the free SiCCC pads in that case.
Please let me know how you would like to move forward."

I've been waiting enough time not to care for an extra 3 weeks, well.... I guess it will be a little bit more than that, but anyway, I'll keep waiting.


----------



## bikerider2 (Nov 9, 2011)

doccoraje said:


> Not about two pieces but, I got an e-mail from them 8 days ago:
> 
> "Rotors are now ready to ship. We are going to provide free SiCCC pads to all customers who have experienced a long wait for their product. Pads will be ready in about three weeks. You qualify for free pads but we cannot afford to send the pads and rotors separately. If you would like I can send your rotors today but you would not receive the free SiCCC pads in that case.
> Please let me know how you would like to move forward."
> ...


Interesting. I got the notice that they will ship pads with the rotors, but didn't hear that the two piece rotors were ready to ship. 50 days since their last official update on their site, but nothing about having the two piece ready. Goes to show you that no matter the product you still need good marketing.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh well, I'll keep my money in the pocket for now ....


----------



## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

I have not recieved any email about free pads. For how long have you been waiting doccoraje, to qualify for this gracious gift?


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Svend P said:


> I have not recieved any email about free pads. For how long have you been waiting doccoraje, to qualify for this gracious gift?


They received my SFL for C-processing on April 22, they were part of the second kickstarter batch.


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Do you guys think they've made a run with our money (and rotors)?

I was on the third Kickstarter batch.

Upon inspection, I noticed that one of the rotors I received had a flaw on the braking surface near the edge. It looked like it was missing a layer there. It was very noticeable at plain sight and I could clearly feel it when I ran my finger over it. I don't understand how their quality control could have missed something like this.

Considering their rotors are C-processed now, I asked them if I had to return both my rotors if I wanted them to perform identically? Their answer was yes.

I returned the rotors by Registered Airmail out of my own pocket. I live in Argentina, so postage wasn't cheap. Tracking shows my package was delivered on May 28.

They promised they would send me the replacements on June 10, but they didn't do it.

After that, they didn't reply to any of my following messages.

It's been two months since they received my rotors and it seems they've decided to keep them (and my money).

I'm considering reporting them to Kickstarter and Amazon.

Anyone who's thinking about getting their rotors should avoid them like the plague.


----------



## Learux (Jun 4, 2012)

I have a feeling these boys got a bit more then they bargained for.

I would like to try one of their rotors but I will wait until their problems are sorted out!


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

sfer1 said:


> Do you guys think they've made a run with our money (and rotors).
> They promised they would send me the replacements on June 10, but they didn't do it.
> After that, they didn't reply to any of my following messages.
> It's been two months since they received my rotors and it seems they've decided to keep them (and my money).
> I'm considering reporting them to Kickstarter and Amazon.


I don't think they will run away with our money..and rotors, they are certainly lacking a lot of communicatiion skills and that for a starting bussines is not the best way to gain new customers or keep the existing ones.
They never gave me an estimate for shipping after sending my rotors for C-processing, now they say three weeks for rotors and the "gracious pad gift", but, I'll wait 'till I get them to test and then either bash or praise them.


----------



## MarcoL (Jun 3, 2007)

-I havent recieved mines yet, they were sent on April Also...


----------



## velojonthan (Feb 10, 2013)

By avoid like the plague I figure you mean avoid if you are not willing to play a part in the development and manufacturing of a new cycling product…….

Its not like sending an ill fitting pair of shoes back to Zappos... These guys are making something cool enough that you went out on a limb for once (Purchasing a completely unproven new product that no other major company has even attempted) so lets try and keep things in perspective. Also, one of my rotors looks like this as well and when I asked about it (Back when this thread only had like 5 pages) they said it was not a big deal, but they will replace it if I want. 

Just got off the phone with Will at Kettle, as I called earlier and did not leave a message. They called me back to make sure that if I needed something it was taken care of right away. This interaction as well as every other interaction with Kettle leads me to believe they are a good company trying hard to provide good service with minimal staff while dealing with challenging engineering and production issues. So please use your best judgment when making claims about their business practices IE possibly keeping it to yourself if you feel they are keeping your product and funds as: A) it is simply not true B) it makes you look bad C) its slander.

From what I understand they hired an outside 'friction specialist' company to make the new pads and when those are completed, as well as changes to the SFL rotors to make them mount true, they will be over the first few challenges that we have been discussing on this thread. These changes are per customer feedback so, again, I believe they are doing everything they can to tackle an exciting new product that no other manufacture has put any real effort into.

I am excited about all the hard riding I've done to date on my (Somewhat underpowered) SFL rotors and look forward to seeing how these next few pieces of the system play out.


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

You have 4 posts, all of them to defend this company. Your experience seems to differ from the majority of the reviews on this site. Do you work for them?


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

To defend the defender :lol: I've had some phone conversations with them as well (waiting for 2 piece rotors still) and they've always been up front and honest with me. 

In my opinion I think they messed up with trying to make everyone happy. Originally they made what they said they were going to make as far as performance goes. They could of come out with a second or another version with the c processing done. 

It completely sucks I still haven't been able to even try these things and its been months past when they were supposed to be done now but I'd rather get a finished product "eventually" then get one that fails.


----------



## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

I have a set of the non C processed discs in 160/180 and was to scared to take the bike off road with them, they simply lacked the power to feel confident I could control the bike.

I do intend to try again with the C processed units in 180/203 and agree that the company deserves props for utilizing this tech for mountain bikes.


----------



## velojonthan (Feb 10, 2013)

I was on this site close to 10 years ago but stopped mountain biking or buying new bikes for over a decade. Just this year I decided to buy a decked out 29er and I wanted to make it as light as possible for a 190lbs rider. Dropping 100+ grams on the rotors with less brake fade was something I got pretty excited about, so I viewed this forum and did as much information gathering as I could before my purchase.

I posted to provide some realistic feedback on the performance of the brake rotors in real world conditions. To date, my post is one of if not the only review that gives a thorough rundown of the performance of the product including the terrain, speed, and distance it was used on. In terms of "defending the company" I would prefer to think that I am defending the level of discourse on the thread, and in this train of thought there is an edit button if anyone is so inclined..... I have zero affiliation with the bicycle industry including kettle.

My experience is different from many of the others in that I didn't believe the marketing hype to begin with and had expectations of performance below what was claimed. Also, I actually used the rotors and put some decent miles on them. I think a lot of my being able to use the rotors has to do with the pads. Swiss Stop organic works pretty well, I also have very large hands so putting pressure on the lever doesent cause much fatigue.

I agree with ilikemtb in that the company really went wrong when they made a promise a bit too strong before testing the product in mountainous terrain (Buying mtb products from guys who filmed test videos in Central Indiana was suspect to me), and that they set an expectation that they had a resolution to the friction issue when they only had a partial solution. This is the kind of tech that can really push the envelope down the line with bikes. Imagine dropping 100+grams per rim off of deep dish aero road wheels and only adding 30-40 at the center of the hub with no fade on long descent.

If anyone has the rotors and has not used them I suggest that you do, feel free to read my original review as I stand by it. That being said I will use the new pads when they come out (I've already paid for mine and am waiting) and I'm upping to a 180 front.

http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/carbon-brake-rotors-823378-16.html#post10372171


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I've had my 180 c processed SFL rotors on now for around 20 rides. I run them with ebc red pads using Hope V2 brakes and I 1 finger brake. I also use the Hope 2mm disc rotor spacers to help spread the load from the fixing bolts to secure them evenly which hopefully will help keep them mounted true.

I'm a massive fan of these rotors, the performance is nothing but superb. I've used them on rolling terrain over 54 mile rides and on very steep descents over loose rocks, pea shingle and slippery roots at very high speeds (I regularly reach speeds of between 25-45 miles per hour of road on rough terrain, and I only care for the down hill section times on strava!) These rotors give you the ultimate control, not once have I come close to locking up a wheel unless I intended too. Front wheel braking control is sublime, they give you complete confidence that you won't slide the front end when braking because you get so much feel/feed back on what your input is and the results your getting. The power keeps coming the more you pull on the brakes, so no on/off feel or loads of power to then fade, just more and more power!

They help you to be faster on the descents because you only scrub the speed you need to or intend to, letting you carry the speed through the corner and keep the flow.
I know I'm using the ultimate performing brakes anyway but I'm comparing the results to when I ran hope floating 183 rotors.

It's a bonus that you loose loads of weight as well. Also I noticed that pad wear is reduced significantly with these rotors, again another added bonus.

These rotors are worth the wait, so I would suggest everyone to be patient as you will have these on your bikes for the rest of your riding lives once you give them a shot.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^I agree that pad life seems longer with these than Formula R1 rotors. They also have stayed dead silent for 6 months now. The solid surface seems like a good idea. I haven't had any pad glazing or seen other reasons why holes scraping the pad face would be preferable.


----------



## Learux (Jun 4, 2012)

Promising, waiting for good news and I will get a 180mm rotor for my formula rx's(front)


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I have a question about the pads, if anyone is running theirs yet.

I swap wheelsets depending on riding conditions, and one set does not have the carbon rotors, just metal. If I do go with the carbon pads, how are they on metal rotors?

(Other option would be for me to buy a second set of carbon rotors for the other wheeset , $$$, or swap out the pads each time, which would be a pain.)


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Don't use these pads on steel rotors.


----------



## Lepave (Jul 27, 2009)

Guys,I have tried and tested those disk ( 160mm) and with both metallic and organic pads,they are not where near my hope disks ( with Formula R1 set-up) 

These are just good enough to go to supermarket , that is it, total waste of money.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Lepave said:


> Guys,I have tried and tested those disk ( 160mm) and with both metallic and organic pads,they are not where near my hope disks ( with Formula R1 set-up)
> 
> These are just good enough to go to supermarket , that is it, total waste of money.


bit harsh for a 1st post
How long did you try them for? they take a while to bed in


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Lepave said:


> Guys,I have tried and tested those disk ( 160mm) and with both metallic and organic pads,they are not where near my hope disks ( with Formula R1 set-up)
> 
> These are just good enough to go to supermarket , that is it, total waste of money.


Talking rubbish in my opinion.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

ruscle said:


> Talking rubbish in my opinion.


Agree.......


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Lepave said:


> Guys,I have tried and tested those disk ( 160mm) and with both metallic and organic pads,they are not where near my hope disks ( with Formula R1 set-up)
> 
> These are just good enough to go to supermarket , that is it, total waste of money.


Obvious troll - NOBODY uses brakes to go to the supermarket.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

006_007 said:


> Obvious troll - NOBODY uses brakes to go to the supermarket.


Funny as if you translate is username in English, it would read Thewreck. I agree on rubbish talk.


----------



## Lepave (Jul 27, 2009)

I had them and wasted at least 5-6 outing ( around 100km) and yes i did bed them In properly with both pads.....total waste of money and time..... I have read some post where riders mentioned that in some occasion they are " ok" but come on , we need brakes that can do all without any worry and safety.


----------



## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Were these the newer c-processed ones, or the original specification?


----------



## Lepave (Jul 27, 2009)

No idea, i didnt even know they were some new " processed ones"


----------



## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Lepave said:


> I had them and wasted at least 5-6 outing ( around 100km) and yes i did bed them In properly with both pads.....total waste of money and time..... I have read some post where riders mentioned that in some occasion they are " ok" but come on , we need brakes that can do all without any worry and safety.


Read my post just above yours then, no. 489. These rotors rock :rockon:


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Lepave said:


> I did bed them In properly with both pads.....total waste of money and time.


At DH Nationals a guy said he tried these rotors with Shimano resin pads and they had so little bite they were unusable for MTBing. He hopped on my bike (with Formula brakes and their organic pads) and was shocked. He agreed that the power and feel are the same as organic pads with steel rotors. All we could figure is that some company's resin/organic pads work much better with these rotors than others. This creates a huge variable depending on what brand brake you run but that should be eliminated when the Siccc pads come out.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Lepave said:


> I had them and wasted at least 5-6 outing ( around 100km) and yes i did bed them In properly with both pads.....total waste of money and time..... I have read some post where riders mentioned that in some occasion they are " ok" but come on , we need brakes that can do all without any worry and safety.


mine needed londer than that to bed in


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

ctguru said:


> mine needed londer than that to bed in


Again, notice the difference with different pads. The rotors I had over the winter with sintered pads required 3 trips down a 2000ft trail with lots of braking to bed in. The newer rotors I've been using with Formula organics needed no bedding in for decent performance (literally good feeling when slowing for the first turn) and were fully up to power by the bottom of the first run on much less brake heavy trails.

Until they get the Siccc pads out their reputation will suffer from the wide variation in performance experienced by owners of different brands of brakes.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Lelandjt said:


> Again, notice the difference with different pads. The rotors I had over the winter with sintered pads required 3 trips down a 2000ft trail with lots of braking to bed in. The newer rotors I've been using with Formula organics needed no bedding in for decent performance (literally good feeling when slowing for the first turn) and were fully up to power by the bottom of the first run on much less brake heavy trails.
> 
> Until they get the Siccc pads out their reputation will suffer from the wide variation in performance experienced by owners of different brands of brakes.


I really like mine
I'm sending them back as they have warped

Kettle have been really helpful with the return process

I'm happy to support the product as it works well for my riding terrain etc.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

At this point I just want a product to even complain about :lol:

Going on 5 months late on two piece rotors


----------



## bikerider2 (Nov 9, 2011)

I called them this week. They told me they were having issues bonding the center carrier to the braking ring. They were working on a solution and would know in the next few weeks (about the same time the pads are done) whether the solution works. Otherwise they would offer kickstarters that paid for the 2 piece, one piece rotors instead. Why they can't update their website to state this I have no idea, but like you would like a product to test out.



Ilikemtb999 said:


> At this point I just want a product to even complain about :lol:
> 
> Going on 5 months late on two piece rotors


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

bikerider2 said:


> I called them this week. They told me they were having issues bonding the center carrier to the braking ring. They were working on a solution and would know in the next few weeks (about the same time the pads are done) whether the solution works. Otherwise they would offer kickstarters that paid for the 2 piece, one piece rotors instead. Why they can't update their website to state this I have no idea, but like you would like a product to test out.


They told me that exact same thing back in May; in fact he told me by the next week they'd be ready.


----------



## bayareaflip (Jun 12, 2008)

Ilikemtb999 said:


> They told me that exact same thing back in May; in fact he told me by the next week they'd be ready.


What happened to the ones they were riding around in their videos?
I thought they were ready to go from the moment I had paid mine...this is BS! I guess will just have to wait until then. The sucky part is, we're almost at fall season.... Missed spring and summer rides my Mojo HD is not happy


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

For those waiting for C-processed rotor+pads, quick response to my ticket:
_"Pad production was delayed due to a scheduling problem with our pad vendor's production line. We were removed to accommodate a large client and, as of this week, have been put back into production. Our vendor is promising to deliver pads in two weeks time."_
Why it doesn't surprise me? I honestly hope they sort all their problems.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that in a few years, these guys will be outfitting the majority of the pro-level riders out there and make a fortune with these rotors. They're not the first ground-breaking company that experience challenging and chaotic beginnings. Just think about Steve Jobs or even the first inverted MTB forks.


----------



## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

*Yup, disaster so far.*



doccoraje said:


> For those waiting for C-processed rotor+pads, quick response to my ticket:
> _"Pad production was delayed due to a scheduling problem with our pad vendor's production line. We were removed to accommodate a large client and, as of this week, have been put back into production. Our vendor is promising to deliver pads in two weeks time."_
> Why it doesn't surprise me? I honestly hope they sort all their problems.


I realize that new technology and new companies may have some issues, but thus far this for me has been a bit of a disaster.

I did receive my rotors, but held off for a few reviews (fortunately). So mine were new and untouched when I sent them back for the c-processing. I also took advantage of that time to purchase some new pads at a discount.

Then I received an e-mail regarding no-charge pads, yet I had paid 50 bucks for new pads.

Today I simply tried to ask for a refund on everything, or at least on the pre-purchased pads as this process has been a bit of a fiasco, and the season is over half over.

Frustrating and confusing so far.


----------



## bayareaflip (Jun 12, 2008)

*Wow!*



Green Giant said:


> I realize that new technology and new companies may have some issues, but thus far this for me has been a bit of a disaster.
> 
> I did receive my rotors, but held off for a few reviews (fortunately). So mine were new and untouched when I sent them back for the c-processing. I also took advantage of that time to purchase some new pads at a discount.
> 
> ...


I called them today becaused I wanted to see If I can switch to the SFL instead, since the two piece is still not ready. I figured that SFL's would be readily available since they already in production. No freakin luck!!!
Same waiting period! They may not be ready til end of the month... "May not be ready"! Also, they may just decide to do just the SFL's instead. Very frustrated at this time!!!


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

I was an early KickStarter campaign backer and have got the rotors at the beginning of March and initially intended to use them with Shimano CX75 mechanicals on my cross bike, but the rotors I received were out of true from day one and no amount of adjustment with the mechanical calipers (Shimano CX75 and Avid BB7SL) could eliminate the significant rubbing/binding. I then moved them over to my SS 29er with Shimano XTR and Ashima Ai2 rotors and while the carbon rotors still produced a very minor amount of pad rub, I figured it was acceptable. Although I don't get out on the 29er that much, after a few rides I was starting to like them until this past week when I took a quick roll around in the parking lot on a friends Scott 29er with the same calipers and Ashima Ai2 rotors and even for a neophyte off-road rider, the difference in stopping power was significant. Last weekend I put the Ashima Ai2 rotors back on and then opened a ticket with Kettle and mailed the SICC 160mm rotors back for C-Processing and hopefully a set of carbon pads. At this point though, it doesn't really matter because based on others experiences, I am doubting I will see a set of rotors get returned from Kettle!


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Delete


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Anyone used any of the new Kettle specific pads yet?


----------



## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

David C said:


> . Just think about Steve Jobs or even the first inverted MTB forks.


Well, Jobs and Hannebrink were both heavy and problematic, and now they are both dead!


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

ms6073 said:


> I was an early KickStarter campaign backer and have got the rotors at the beginning of March and initially intended to use them with Shimano CX75 mechanicals on my cross bike, but the rotors I received were out of true from day one and no amount of adjustment with the mechanical calipers (Shimano CX75 and Avid BB7SL) could eliminate the significant rubbing/binding. I then moved them over to my SS 29er with Shimano XTR and Ashima Ai2 rotors and while the carbon rotors still produced a very minor amount of pad rub, I figured it was acceptable. Although I don't get out on the 29er that much, after a few rides I was starting to like them until this past week when I took a quick roll around in the parking lot on a friends Scott 29er with the same calipers and Ashima Ai2 rotors and even for a neophyte off-road rider, the difference in stopping power was significant. Last weekend I put the Ashima Ai2 rotors back on and then opened a ticket with Kettle and mailed the SICC 160mm rotors back for C-Processing and hopefully a set of carbon pads. At this point though, it doesn't really matter because based on others experiences, I am doubting I will see a set of rotors get returned from Kettle!


I got mine back and I'm in Australia


----------



## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

So,

Still haven't gotten my rotors back from c-processing, nor the pads.

Got an e-mail back in August saying things were coming, or I could get a full refund on everything.

Gave it two weeks, asked for refund - no response. Sent an e-mail again Sept 20th - no response.

Disaster. Just want a refund for the rotors and pads I paid for and still don't have.

I expect here soon we will hear they are out of business and the money is lost.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Green Giant said:


> So,
> 
> Still haven't gotten my rotors back from c-processing, nor the pads.
> 
> ...


From Malaysia.

Rotors sent back half year ago and no news since two months ago..do not get any reply from FB or kettle cycles website..

I think find my rotors app is needed on my iOS device.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I was surprised to see this new SFL rotor design. I just got this 7" rotor to replace one I smashed to bits on a rock during an Enduro World Series round. That rock probably turned 100 rotors into locked-up tacos during practice and race runs. It also broke spokes on several rider's rear wheels including Jared Graves' during his race run. Fortunately my incident was in practice and while half the rotor turned to dust the other half stayed straight and ran cleanly through the caliper so I could ride down to the pits. Crash replacement cost is half retail price.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Actual rotor bolt holes instead of slots, nice.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Update
Looks like they have been working on the design of the rotors. Mine look different from the new ones.
I have 200+ miles on my rear rotor and it is great. I up sized to a 180 in the back with XTR race brakes (resin pads) and they have the perfect level of grip. They have also have stayed true and quiet. I start with one rotor on the front, but the braking friction was no where near steel so it move to the back and has been working great ever since. These are the C-Processed ones, the first set was not up to the task. Every time I have contacted Kettle they have gotten back to me fast all be it with some attitude. We singed up to be the Ginny pigs and they are working on their product. While I like to have everything right now, the longer you wait the better the rotors are probable going to be. Once pads come out and they are 3 or 4 generation it, everyone will want them. I ordered pads the day they said they where going to make them. Its been 2-3 months. Hopefully I will get them soon. 
Safety First.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I got a message saying they're waiting on their vendor for my Formula pads, but more interesting was he mentioned they're receiving other pads.........so maybe good news for Shimano and Avid owners who had early orders in.


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Green Giant said:


> So,
> 
> Still haven't gotten my rotors back from c-processing, nor the pads.
> 
> ...


I hope these guys can stick it out and get a decent product out the door.

Did you start with Kickstarter?


----------



## bayareaflip (Jun 12, 2008)

Just had a long talk with Josh. Wil is no longer with kettle so they're short staffed.
According to Josh, all rotors are good to go, and they're just waiting on the pads for certain brakes from the vendor. Mine will be/should be ready in a few more weeks(magura marta sl). Looks like the two piece rotors are out of the questions for now. I will be getting the SFL instead... Which I don't mind right now. He was also very apologetic for not posting some sort of updates. He stated that he's basically working all areas in production right now. He is working in updating kickstarters soon.
He's a vey pleasant to speak with, and I can tell that he's working he's tail off over there


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

bayareaflip said:


> Just had a long talk with Josh... so they're short staffed....
> Blah blah blah -
> He's a very pleasant to speak with, and I can tell that he's working he's tail off over there


So what I hear you saying is if everyone would stop calling/e-mailing, then maybe they could get something done?  (note use of emoticon in an attempt to indicate humor)

Update: Dayum! Just got a telephone call from Kettle about the rotors shipped back/ticket filed last month for which Kettle indicated that c-processed rotors and pads for Shimano brakes would be shipped out today!


----------



## MarcoL (Jun 3, 2007)

Has anyone got their rotors back??


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

MarcoL said:


> Has anyone got their rotors back??
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


I've got mine back


----------



## Jcjacob21 (Oct 26, 2010)

Got mine. They're worth the wait!


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

Got mine back on Saturday and mounted them on the cross bike with the same wheels as before and still getting pad rub with TRP Spyre SL mechanical disc brakes. Will try them on the 29er with different wheels but will not be able to get this done until after we return from holiday.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

My two 160 rotors & carbon pads showed up today from C-Processing. They mounted up true with no pad rub @ 3.5 NM torque. Followed Kettle's bed in process & have very good stopping power - XTR 985. I would say power is on par with steel rotors & XTR Resin pads. Its been a long ordeal for Kettle and its nice to see they've got a very good product now and these are no longer just for Beach cruisers & Weight weenies who just want to hang their bikes from weigh scales and take pictures. I'll likely pic up a couple more for my XC race bike.
The only down-side is C-Processing added weight to both my rotors. They were each 53 grams, after C-P they both weigh 61 grams. The carbon pads however are only 8 grams for the pair.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I just received my XTR Pads and they are great. They bed in on one ride and provide steels level bite and power. They are also super light. The bad news is that my rotors are warped and there dose not seem to be a way to straighten them. I tried gently bending them with a morning star rotor wrench and it worked on the stand, but as soon as I road the bike they went back to warped. I marked the amount of run out on the rotor, then rotated it on the wheel and rechecked. I also tried torquing the rotor from finger tight to 35in/lbs and it did not affect the shape of the rotor.


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

Sounds like the same issue I observed with DT 240 hubs built under Enve carbon rims. Before I sent my rotors back for c-proc, I used a truing stand and digital caliper to perform a pseudo measurement of the disc rotor mounting face of the DT hubs and found very small differences for each tab. Next, I moved the rotors to a Stans wheelset and found the warp to be a bit less but still observed pad rub with XTR calipers. Now that I have new c-proc rotors and am observing the same issue, I have to believe the issue is with the disc mounting faces of the hubs and not the rotors but other than shimming individual tabs, not much I can think of to remedy the situation. I have a set of DT 240 centerlock hubs which are set aside to build up a new wheelset with the Derby wide carbon rims and am hopeful these new rotors might give better results with cl adapters.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

If you want to try shimming uneven hub disc mounts Shimano makes something that will work and is very easy to find cuz they come with Shimano rotors and most people don't use them. If you don't have any your shop probably does.



These were meant to go over the disc and have the corners bent up to lock the bolt. They are pretty thin and have the correct inner and outer diameter to work as shims behind the rotor. Flatten out the corners a little with pliers, then use as-is for 2 neighboring mounts or cut in half for 1 mount. I haven't tried it but came up with the idea once while contemplating a bent rotor.
If someone knows of an even thinner washer that could be commonly found in bike shops let me know. You definitely want an M4 hole and wide enough to cover the whole rotor/tab interface.


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm kind of curious how bad that carbon brake dust is for you though. From what I understand breathing in carbon fiber particles is as bad for you as asbestos (for same reasons I think) so the carbon pad thing makes me wonder what are they actually made of?


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Lelandjt said:


> If you want to try shimming uneven hub disc mounts Shimano makes something that will work and is very easy to find cuz they come with Shimano rotors and most people don't use them. If you don't have any your shop probably does.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


syntace also make them

Syntace


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

litany said:


> I'm kind of curious how bad that carbon brake dust is for you though. From what I understand breathing in carbon fiber particles is as bad for you as asbestos (for same reasons I think) so the carbon pad thing makes me wonder what are they actually made of?


Don't use compressed air to clean you brakes. Last I heard the pads are made of the same stuff as the rotors.

This isn't the first time carbon dust has been an issue for bike mechanics. Cutting carbon bars, posts, and steerers creates dust that you don't want to breath. Not really an issue for home mechanics but when you work on bikes every day you wear a mask. Same with all the fluids in a modern bike. Most shop mechanics put on latex gloves to bleed brakes, rebuild suspension, ect.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

ctguru said:


> syntace also make them
> 
> Syntace


Sick! They're probably thinner. You're not gonna just randomly find those in your toolbox or a shop but I'll order a set to keep on hand.

Edit: QBP is out of stock but shows them as a stocked item so any shop can get'em.....once they're back in stock.

Double Edit: Shimanos measure at .25mm and Syntace is .2mm.


----------



## colmor (Dec 17, 2011)

Got the Avid Siccc pads in yesterday. Aaron from Kettle said to just mount them and they will burn off the organic bedding on the rotor. after a quick 10 miles of single track today, I have to say this combination is performing great! Quite satisfied.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Any word if the two piece rotors are just not happening? 

Glad to hear people are getting pads and their rotors back though. Those guys must be real busy over there.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^Not happening for this year.


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

And once again i asked.....where is mine?


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

jos3ph4ever said:


> And once again i asked.....where is mine?


Are they coming with pads for a brake other than new Shimano or Avid Elixer? If so the hold up is waiting for those pads. I was told new Formula are next to be ready.


----------



## Learux (Jun 4, 2012)

Let me know when formula pads are done, I might go for it.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

xc71 said:


> My two 160 rotors & carbon pads showed up today from C-Processing. They mounted up true with no pad rub @ 3.5 NM torque. Followed Kettle's bed in process & have very good stopping power - XTR 985. I would say power is on par with steel rotors & XTR Resin pads. Its been a long ordeal for Kettle and its nice to see they've got a very good product now and these are no longer just for Beach cruisers & Weight weenies who just want to hang their bikes from weigh scales and take pictures. I'll likely pic up a couple more for my XC race bike.
> The only down-side is C-Processing added weight to both my rotors. They were each 53 grams, after C-P they both weigh 61 grams. The carbon pads however are only 8 grams for the pair.


Just a follow up now that I have a couple of good rides on these.
Conditions here are wet and trails are tight single track with lots of rooty sidehills & steep rooty downhills - perfect conditions to evaluate modulation. I ended up running the carbon pads in the front for max. power, but running stock XTR Resin pads ( I cleaned mine up on course emery cloth ) in the rear. You can still lock up the rear wheel with one finger braking, but the Resin pads give better modulation. Very happy with both brakes with excellent modulation & power - perfect set-up for the terrain I ride. Should be great in the snow/ice as I also winter ride, but still need to see if these are going to squeal when really wet. For riders familiar with XTR brakes, these have the modulation of 975's & the power of 985's. 
The carbon pads don't have alot of pad material on them and was concerned how long they would last on the rear, so this set-up gives me a spare carbon set for the front & also a spare resin set for the rear.


----------



## Learux (Jun 4, 2012)

That is my next question, how much are the carbon pads, how long do they last?


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

I lost my rotors so I cannot answer until they show up....


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I got my C-processed rotors today, no shipping notice, just a package dropped by FedEx, I should be happy, after 7 months and complimentary pads...
the only problem is that my brakes are Maguras and the pads are for Avid :madman: they are the same shape, but smaller braking surface. Anyone else had this "problem"?


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I guess if they fit the caliper and line up nicely on the rotor give'em a try since they were free. Also, the wait for Magura pads could be a while since I was told Formula was next after the Avids and Shimanos.


----------



## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Guess what finally showed up, albeit not the two piece I ordered, but they said they'd rather get me something now vs. having to wait any longer and when the 2-piece becomes available, they would "figure out something".


----------



## skyfire1202 (Jan 21, 2008)

I guess they realized that the reason for the misaligned rotors were the rotor bolt slots instead of holes? At least that's what I thought the reason is because uninstalled they are dead strait and true, but mounting them even with digital torque wrench, I never had any luck. It took so long to have them aligned with the the first generation Formula R1 calipers and sometimes they still do rub. Anybody installed these new designed rotors who can say anything regarding pad rubbing if they have improved or not?


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I received a message from Josh,
"Those Avid pads may have been shipped by mistake and we can correct that issue for you but if you ride MT Brakes then they should work albeit without the function of the magnet which traditionally holds the MT pads in place. When MT pads arrive we can take care of you."
So, I guess I'll give them a try.
Thanks Josh.


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

The magura MT magnets are in the pistons, so provided the pad backing material is ferrous (ie. capable of being magnetised) the pads will work without springs. This is why you don't see Alu backed pads for the MT series brakes.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

First ride this weekend on 2 sets of C-processed rotors and they are defiantly better than the first version

Minimal bed in time, really happy with them

Kettle brake pads should arrive soon

XO Trail brakes 180mm rotors


----------



## jos3ph4ever (Apr 23, 2012)

Still no news for my rotors...Fed up!!!!!


----------



## velojonthan (Feb 10, 2013)

*Updated review with New Carbon Brake Pads for Carbon Rotors.*

I got the new pads in a few weeks ago, but I just replaced my front brake pads a week earlier so I was in no hurry to work on my bike again. Running an XT Front 160 and Kettle 160 rear with organic swiss stop pads for the past three or four months. This has been a great combo as the Kettle 160 with regular pads on the rear has more than enough power for xc fire road and some tech xc stuff and the modulation is great. So I'm going to leave the rear brake as is untill the pad wears down. The kettle with regular pads on the front will slow you down but the power just comes on a bit slow for technical stuff, and it requires more force. So, I'm psyched these pads are here so I can use the exspensive rotor I paid for about a year ago!

I have the first Gen Kettle rotors that run a bit wider than the C Processd and newer generation rotors so it was a tight fit in the xt caliper but I was able to get it to fit last night while watching TV so it was no big deal. I put a washer behind the rotor and it helps a bit with the rotor running true but the slots aren't helping things and just like my rear, the front does not run true. The rub is not noticeable once riding so it does not bother me, and the new ones come with drilled holes vs slots so that should help a lot.

My initial impression of the new pads with the rotors is quite good. It is possibly stronger on the initial bite with no bead in than the xt it replaced. I will put another review up after I thrash this new setup, but as far as I can tell this is what we were waiting for.... Now if they can just get their operations down.



velojonthan said:


> Sorry I bothered to read this thread for a month instead of installing my non c process 160 SFL rotors. They took normal setting up, not sure about you guys but my XT's are a sealed system and didn't require any bleeding, just following of Shimano's instructions and depressing the piston's when installing new pads (Swiss Stop Organic). I weight about 190 lbs with riding gear +24 lbs bike.
> 
> I was pretty nervous about running these, and I was waiting around for someone to really demonstrate that they can be ridden hard. My old pads were worn and I didn't want to wait any longer despite my worry that these will get me hurt.
> 
> ...


----------



## MarcoL (Jun 3, 2007)

I have never gotten my rotors back order 242


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

Yeeaaa! got four good rides in, one in rain, all four in cold. They work great. I was happy with performance before I sent them in for C-processing, they were just missing that emergency stopping grabbing power. That's there now. Incrredible modulation, power like my original hope floaters, but dead quiet. Little squeal after creek crossings, but that's about it. I received the new pads also, and really think this would have been the cure for me without the C-processing. All in all, very happy and glad I waited.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I'm pretty stoked on the performance of the 3rd gen rotors with carbon pads. I use Formula R1 and The One brakes and they are simply perfect.


----------



## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

I got my new C-processed rotors and carbon pads for Formula R1, and the pads were completely gone in one short gravel road ride, front and rear. I also used up one set of pads in the front during 15 minutes of break in. I could feel the lever sink in underneath my finger when I braked hard, the pads were wearing that fast. Did I get bad pads or rotors? I created a ticket with Kettle a few weeks ago, but haven't heard back from them.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I've been trying to be patient, but have 3 tickets open at this point without a fix: just getting my original Kickstarter rotor. On the second ticket they promised a fix, then no more communication from months ago. Opened another last month, with no response at all. Got an IM in this forum from "Josh" at Kettle, asking to speak to me many weeks ago, but nothing back from him after sending my details back in IM. Just about 2 weeks ago I got an email from them, promising a fix, but nothing since.

The start-stop, promise & no response is painful.

At a minimum, all they need to do is ship a single 140mm SICC rotor, and that has not occurred since Kickstarter completed funding.

I can't really comment on the product, but if you are considering buying anything from Kettle, I'd strongly recommend you wait until they sort out their customer service issues. Believe me, I'm trying to be very fair, and polite when I word that.


----------



## gstahl (Dec 20, 2003)

Will toss my two cents in. replaced shimano race XTR rotors (with Shimano brakes just to be clear) with kettle rotors. Did two rides (dry) on Santa Cruz Highball (well known rides). With my setup the lack of real stopping power was basically scary. Swapped back to Shimano rotors and all was better with the world. I suspect a number of folks will get these to work, maybe on the more powerful brake setups. For me the rotors are now in a drawer.

I figured it was a gamble but worth it to try it. Note these were first gen rotors with stock pads.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

*Update*

I have not heard back for Kettle on my warped rotors. It has been 2 months now. There were both warped from new. I had one ride on the rotor with kettle pads and it was dragging so bad on both sides that I had to take them off.:madmax: What really sucks about these rotors is that you can't true them.
YES they were setup correctly.:madman:
YES I torqued them.
YES I checked the rotor to pad clearance.
NO my hub flanges are not uneven.
YES they work perfect with stock rotors.
Shimano XTR brakes


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

gstahl said:


> Will toss my two cents in. replaced shimano race XTR rotors (with Shimano brakes just to be clear) with kettle rotors. Did two rides (dry) on Santa Cruz Highball (well known rides). With my setup the lack of real stopping power was basically scary. Swapped back to Shimano rotors and all was better with the world. I suspect a number of folks will get these to work, maybe on the more powerful brake setups. For me the rotors are now in a drawer.
> 
> I figured it was a gamble but worth it to try it. Note these were first gen rotors with stock pads.


Would have to agree Geoff, Gen 1 were very scary, had to take mine off as well as I'm allergic to plaster and external fixators. Worst brakes I've ever tried including old school V's and Canti's. However after receiving my C-Processed rotors with Kettle's carbon pads these things are amazing XTR 985 Race brakes. I've got 50 hours on mine now in dry, mud and snow rides and the power is very similar to steel rotors. Modulation is incredible, nothing like a nice icy downhill to test them out. These are by far the best brakes I've used to date. Just ordered a 140mm rotor and carbon pads for my XC race bike.
Send yours back for C-Processing and get the free carbon pads they were offering.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

xc71 said:


> Would have to agree Geoff, Gen 1 were very scary, had to take mine off as well as I'm allergic to plaster and external fixators. Worst brakes I've ever tried including old school V's and Canti's. However after receiving my C-Processed rotors with Kettle's carbon pads these things are amazing XTR 985 Race brakes. I've got 50 hours on mine now in dry, mud and snow rides and the power is very similar to steel rotors. Modulation is incredible, nothing like a nice icy downhill to test them out. These are by far the best brakes I've used to date. Just ordered a 140mm rotor and carbon pads for my XC race bike.
> Send yours back for C-Processing and get the free carbon pads they were offering.


+1 stock pads are scary.
carbon pads are very nice.
Rotors way out of true - bad news.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

alexbn921 said:


> +1 stock pads are scary.
> carbon pads are very nice.
> Rotors way out of true - bad news.


Hopefully they will make it right for you sooner than later. Both of my 160's run perfectly true.


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

I am also now running Kettle's second gen c-processed rotors and carbon pads on a custom wheelset with Derby's XC carbon rims and DT Swiss 240 CL and Shimano XTR 985 brakes. While I have not yet had a chance to try them when it is wet, the braking in the dry is outrageous which gave me enough confidence to order 4 more rotors and pads for our cross bikes.


----------



## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Good to hear that the performance seems to be getting to where we all thought it would be. Any comments on the longevity of the SiCCC brake pads?


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Crossmaxx said:


> Good to hear that the performance seems to be getting to where we all thought it would be. Any comments on the longevity of the SiCCC brake pads?


 In 50 hours of various conditions the carbon pads on the front have worn approx. 20%. I'm running stock XTR resin pads for the winter in the rear for even better modulation and they have worn approx. 15%. The rotors braking surface still looks perfect, that being said the soil around here is not really gritty or sandy - more loam.


----------



## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

xc71 - that's a great post and some useful feedback !

So are the rotors sold now all C-processed? 

Chris.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

krzysiekmz said:


> xc71 - that's a great post and some useful feedback !
> 
> So are the rotors sold now all C-processed?
> 
> Chris.


Thanks Chris. I recall Kettle saying awhile back that all future rotors will be C-Processed.When I ordered my 140 rotor two days ago there was only one option.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Has anybody yet found a way that gives the rotors enough stopping power to be used on front wheel in steep stony mountains?
I use mine only for rear wheels that do not need blocking power.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I believe the most powerful combo is a c-processed rotor with matching carbon brake pads. Wether or not that's enough for various applications is still an open question though.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Everyone who's tried my bikes with carbon pads thought they felt the same as stock rotors and pads, plenty of bite and power.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

I've had zero issues with c processed rotors and kettle pads on front range trails and in Moab.


----------



## bmxconvert (May 17, 2006)

How are you guys getting 2nd and 3rd generation stuff? I backed the original Kickstarter program for 2 rotors and not only can I not get my rotors, I can't get any response from Kettle Cycles via email, Facebook or Kickstarter.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

bmxconvert said:


> How are you guys getting 2nd and 3rd generation stuff? I backed the original Kickstarter program for 2 rotors and not only can I not get my rotors, I can't get any response from Kettle Cycles via email, Facebook or Kickstarter.


Your waiting on the two piece I take it? Try emailing Jim at [email protected]. I believe he is new and is handling CS issues, returning emails, etc.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

I originally ordered the 2 piece rotors and then spoke with Aaron about just switching to the single piece ones. They've been great thus far.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Maybe your mail account has been blocked as spam with Kettle; maybe mine has too.
Some are getting rotors and brake pads, some are not. A month ago I had a mail from Jim telling me that I should just buy some brake pads from them and then even my first, second or third generation rotors (I do not know what generation I got) would be fine, because no commercially pads are good enough and that all other manufacturer of pads are making them of uneven quality. What a poor excuse for not living up the the promises made. Jim even stated that the brake pads from Shimano are of uneven quality.
Anyway, the first, second and maybe also third batch are not giving stopping power enough for serious mountains (steep) on the front wheel, but can be used on rear wheels.
The promises Kettle made when offering their rotors first was:
Better modulation than steel rotors (did they keep that? = Yes).
No holes in the rotors were necessary (holes are hard on organic brake pads when wet for a long descent).
Better braking power than steel rotors with standard brake pads (not true) that is why they did not offer brake pads in the beginning.
Some are happy with the rotors, so far I am not.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

I like the product, but have been lucky with CS. Still would like to try their pads, but not happy to lay down cash if they aren't really available.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

On a related note, I finally got my XTR pads from them, but in the meanwhile I had switched to Magura. If you are still in need of brake pads, PM me.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Kettles website just got updated with the 2014 Gen 4 rotors and revised carbon pads.
I just ordered a couple of rotors & sets of pads.


----------



## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

xc71 said:


> Kettles website just got updated with the 2014 Gen 4 rotors and revised carbon pads.
> I just ordered a couple of rotors & sets of pads.


oh my i clicked on carbon pads and it opened a cat litter site, somehow i doubt i would get anything if i ordered a rotor


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

has anyone ordered any pads from Kettle recently? I don't won't to give them my money if they don't have any stock. I asked the question regarding stock levels and got no reply. They are definitely not doing themselves any favours. Wouldn't be surprised if they go bust!


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^They've been keeping Formula pads in stock cuz I've gotten new sets over the winter and again just this past week. While the performance has been awesome I've been wearing them out a little quicker than my old sintered pads. I'm told the newest formulation that is just now becoming available has a longer wear life. Give these guys a chance cuz my experiences have been all positive, both with the product and customer service. My co-worker was asking about prices so we went on their website yesterday and noticed that in addition to a 4th gen rotor now being available there were deals on 2nd and 3rd gen rotors which helps with the initial $$.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I just got some more Formula pads from them. I'm told the new formula that is just becoming available has longer wear life. Another mechanic at my shop was curious about pricing on their rotors so we went on their website yesterday and saw that in addition to now offering a 4th gen rotor they have deals on 2nd and 3rd gen, sub $100.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Email from Kettle yesterday:


Introducing the 2014 F-Processing Rotors.
Advancements in the ceramic bonding between the carbon layers, procedural improvements in the final stage and the carbon/ceramic ratio have yielded a far stronger rotor. The F series are stronger after their first furnace firing than the preceding were on their eighth. Our original two piece concept "jra video" was pretty popular. At the same thickness, this SFL rotor will perform the same feat. The added strength allows us to grind the rotors to 2mm for easier plug and play fit.

The 2014 SFL rotors are now available in Color!
An adhesive agent now makes SFLs in color a reality. Now you can color key your rotors to your bike for a more custom look. We take a finished rotor, mask it, laser cut the masking and send it about 20 miles away for paint. Please allow an extra 10 days for turn-around.
Your hub must be smaller than 60mm in diameter where the rotor mounts.
The paint adds 6-8 grams (180mm)
Available for all sizes.

On that note, we also introduced our 'future' proof trade in program. Find the details here.

Metal Based Pads:
In case you missed it, the metal pads have been shipping, and off to quite a start. The metal pads were used to climb the steps in five podiums in national and state competitions in less than a month. Top 5 finishers using the rotors, send us a picture - we'd love to keep an album going on facebook. More about the metal pad here. 

Finally,
The desire to satisfy riders expectations meant that a number of the original rotors were swapped out. This was the right move for customer service, however, we were overloaded with physical work, vendor crisis management and development. This is a hands-on, practically bespoke operation. Over the next few weeks we will be in a far better place having closed the door on the kickstarter program, ruined partnership and putting the failures of the original pad suppliers, PMA, behind us once and for all. The improvements above mean the troublesome two piece production is limited to only those who pre-ordered, they will not see full production. It has been a monster mountain to climb, and we want to better manage expectations going forward. 

The work flow has improved, which reduces the fiber to part time - we are still challenged with demand surges. We are fully aware no one likes to wait. Cyclocross season is on the horizon, the mountain bike season is in full swing, more road bikes are being offered with disc and a race/training tested pad is shipping. We need a way to project the work load between rotor sizes and pad styles.

Introducing a pilot program for load balancing:

To help manage expectations, we are going implementing a pilot, prepaid discount program.

Place an order and use the code:
60days -for 20% off your order, which will be shipped before 60 days elapse.

Place an order and use the code:
40days -for 10% off your order, which will be shipped before 40 days elapse.

This will allow us to have pads ready in the style and quantities needed when the rotors are completed. Those planning builds, or looking to switch to SiCCC rotors and wait can save money with the prepaid discount.

Managing expectations on the customers side and giving us a heads up will help. If it demand spikes we can call in reinforcements, because we are getting advanced warning for delivery. 

Thanks for reading, and ride safe.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Received the mail today from Kettle. But with the experience I have with the company and their product, I will wait changing my opinion on them until they send the replacement rotor they promised me almost a year ago.
They have had first generation 2nd and third and not they have started with letters and are now with the f-processes.
When they come to the functioning (maybe that is what they mean with the f) and their rotors do like they were supposed to from the beginning, I might become interested again.


----------



## bayareaflip (Jun 12, 2008)

I'm just fed up with Kettle's BS! They gave me an option to switch to SFL rotors from my original 2 piece Kickstarter a month ago, but for extra $$$! I told them "No" since they had told me that the 2 piece are at its "final stages" and will ship out soon. Another month later, and no response to my emails. I'm just trying to find out what happened to the last promised date. I feel like they did not have the 2 piece after all, and just trying to see if I would take the bait and pay more? Bunch of Effin ********ters! They should've given that option for free as a courtesy for making me wait--and still waiting for my rotors. 16 months of waiting for a product that you have already paid for is absurd!
Anyone else waiting on the 2 piece with similar offer from Kettle?


----------



## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

I gave up on these guys a long time ago. Their product is just not worth the money. My loss is their gain. That happens sometimes with Kickstarter.


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

dubthang said:


> I gave up on these guys a long time ago. Their product is just not worth the money. My loss is their gain. That happens sometimes with Kickstarter.


X2. I hear yea on that! if you can't give your kickstarter backers good service, how are they going to give it to real customers. I was waiting to send my rotors back in to them until they found a real fix for some stopping power. I'm not even sure if they ever found it. At least I have some nice wall decorations! if they finally found something that works, and I mean WORKS! not just giving excuses like "they modulate better" if they really have a good product then they should be doing all they can to support their original kickstarter backers and get it out to them first. they should send out emails to all the kickstarter backers, the ticket system is lame.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

What I don't understand is that somebody seems to be happy with the rotors. As far as I am concerned they can be used as rear rotors if you are happy with them never locking and not really functioning, but up front they are absolutely of no value unless you are suicidal.



CarlS said:


> X2. I hear yea on that! if you can't give your kickstarter backers good service, how are they going to give it to real customers. I was waiting to send my rotors back in to them until they found a real fix for some stopping power. I'm not even sure if they ever found it. At least I have some nice wall decorations! if they finally found something that works, and I mean WORKS! not just giving excuses like "they modulate better" if they really have a good product then they should be doing all they can to support their original kickstarter backers and get it out to them first. they should send out emails to all the kickstarter backers, the ticket system is lame.


----------



## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

If we early adopters had our thinking caps on, we would have figured out that only way to get better modulation by changing the rotor meant less bite. The caliper has all the power it ever had but if the pads can't grip the material as well, the brake does modulate differently but the stopping power goes down. Going from metal to organic pads does something similar. Personally, Whistler and North Vancouver trails require metal pads and tons of grip. I should have seen through their idea.


----------



## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

What sold me originally was the idea of truly flat rotors that would stay flat. Mine didn't even show up flat, but slightly curved. Then trying to stop with them was beyond safe... even after they were broken in.


----------



## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

if you want to try again and have 500$ (ha ha) to spend this italian company scappa makes a rotor with a woven carbon body with ceramic inserts. Personally my mt8 next with regular rotors are incredible so i will pass on the carbon.









EB14: Scappa Carbon Ceramic Disc Brake Rotors


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

someoldfart said:


> If we early adopters had our thinking caps on, we would have figured out that only way to get better modulation by changing the rotor meant less bite. The caliper has all the power it ever had but if the pads can't grip the material as well, the brake does modulate differently but the stopping power goes down. Going from metal to organic pads does something similar. Personally, Whistler and North Vancouver trails require metal pads and tons of grip. I should have seen through their idea.


It is easy to be wise when you have experience.
Still the promise was that the rotors would be performing like metal rotors and have improved modulation. 
Kettle announced at first they had discovered the "missing" ingredient that make the carbon/ceramic rotors function like the formula 1 rotors without the need for being very/extremely hot.
Unfortunately they lied.


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

las-palmas said:


> Unfortunately they lied.


I don't think they lied so much as the production rotors failed to meet expectations of a good number of the customers. I am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but will wait until we see a majority of positive reviews.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

ms6073 said:


> I don't think they lied so much as the production rotors failed to meet expectations of a good number of the customers. I am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but will wait until we see a majority of positive reviews.


If you read that the rotors have better braking in dry, muddy and wet weather than metal rotors, what is your reason for saying they did not lie much? Did they only bend the truth in your opinion?
The rotors from Kettle have no stopping power, metal rotors have.
I use 4 piston Saint M820 brakes and having tried 2 different brands of pads (Uberbike 2 models + OEM Shimano both metal and organic) and none of the pads can make the rotors from Kettle stop my bike, the Shimano Ice-tech rotors can.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

ms6073 said:


> I don't think they lied so much as the production rotors failed to meet expectations of a good number of the customers. I am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but will wait until we see a majority of positive reviews.


I'm actually willing to ignore a lot of the production-based issues (given we are/were backing a startup), but they really dropped the ball on the customer service side. There were also a couple of mails from the founder(s) themselves that had an almost accusatory tone to them, i.e. "we thought you guys wanted better modulation".

And while your point is well taken about early production units, the first non-c-processed versions, with non-carbon pads simply did not work. I'm not sure how the company founders could have had such great performance with prototypes (presumably) only to have the early production runs be effectively dangerous. That's a big difference between concept and initial production runs.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

phlegm said:


> There were also a couple of mails from the founder(s) themselves that had an almost accusatory tone to them, i.e. "we thought you guys wanted better modulation".


Look, these guys think they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. I get that from an email reply from them. It is plainly that they feel attacked and take it personally. I have a boss at work that takes an criticism very personally and any hint that said person is wrong, brings out the worst in communication styles.

Suffice to say, Kettle Rotor communication with customers sucks by a level previously never seen before in any bike product suppliers!

But all is forgiven when something works as promised, which it does not sound like any of the initial ones did.

I dare, triple dog dare, the Kettle main man to come over here and ride our trails, a few blacks and double blacks with technical features, and then tell me that they stop as promised. They will sell me one then.

FYI - 747 planes using carbon rotors, they slow down as fast as before, they perform better at dispensing energy from speed. But at first, they could not, would not, can't, actually keep the plane stationary at the hangar. That is because they have such low static friction. It sounds like Kettle's initial product have the same issues, and maybe even a few special issues of their own!

But a lot of entrepreneurs are strange folk. I once worked for a Chinese flat sector panel antenna inventor with a company in an emerging tech market .... oh boy, you ain't seen nothing until you realize that nothing he said actually was what he meant, and that he was often 'thinking out loud' when he described the product specs, not the actual specs of course.


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

WTF is all that about???? (post 604) :skep:



> I'm actually willing to ignore a lot of the production-based issues (given we are/were backing a startup), but they really dropped the ball on the customer service side. There were also a couple of mails from the founder(s) themselves that had an almost accusatory tone to them, i.e. "we thought you guys wanted better modulation".


I hear you, I have been waiting for them to try to work out the bugs and get a better performing product before I sent my rotors in for "c-process" but at this point I don't even really know if they ever got something that works, or if I can still even send them in for a better product.

The fact that they would keep trying to defend the product that didn't work is a real turn off and is just not a good way to win future customers. It makes it hard to believe if they ever got anywhere. I'm surprised they are still in business at all. Do they actually have non-kickstarter customers out there?


----------



## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

las-palmas said:


> If you read that the rotors have better braking in dry, muddy and wet weather than metal rotors, what is your reason for saying they did not lie much? Did they only bend the truth in your opinion?
> The rotors from Kettle have no stopping power, metal rotors have.
> I use 4 piston Saint M820 brakes and having tried 2 different brands of pads (Uberbike 2 models + OEM Shimano both metal and organic) and none of the pads can make the rotors from Kettle stop my bike, the Shimano Ice-tech rotors can.


The emails I've received from Kettle have classification notices on them, though, I'm not sure how, or why, the information I received from Kettle should not be public...

So if I get in trouble it was all for you guys!



Kettle CS said:


> The newer rotors are unfriendly with organics, and the rotors do not play well with high graphite or copper content pads.


Msg received today!


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

CarlS said:


> I hear you, I have been waiting for them to try to work out the bugs and get a better performing product before I sent my rotors in for "c-process" but at this point I don't even really know if they ever got something that works, or if I can still even send them in for a better product.


Same for me. Given the delays in getting my initial rotors, I'm afraid to send mine in for c-processing.


----------



## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

las-palmas said:


> none of the pads can make the rotors from Kettle stop my bike, the Shimano Ice-tech rotors can.


Agreed. The Kickstarter rotors I got were warped and thus a non-starter and were returned and we got C-Processed replacements which were only slightly more true but did not stop worth a darn regardless of pad choice. Not to be deterred, I ordered the 3rd gen C-processed rotors and Kettle's carbon pads and yes, in straight line tests and the limited downhills, those rotors stopped our bikes but regardless of whether it was hydro brakes on my SS 29er or mechanical TRP Spyre calipers on our cross bikes, the squealing was constant and got lourder as braking increased - so loud you needed ear plugs!



CarlS said:


> or if I can still even send them in for a better product.


With all this talk, I visited the Kettle Cycles site and noticed they are now offering a 'rotor trade-in program' as an incentive to get folks to buy the f-series rotors and metal pads. Damn snake oil salesman!

Update: Just for grins, I went back to Kettle and 'shopped' the F-Series rotors in 160mm but when I tried to use the 'SiCCC Rotor Trade-In Program' coupon code at checkout, the shopping cart only adds a single instance of the code, essentially allowing you to trade in only one rotor!


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Has anyone heard if the two piece Kickstart backers are going to be receiving these.
https://www.buykettlecycles.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=70601


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

kettle need to start from scratch!

recall all the crappy rotors and give people who have purchased previously, the new 'f-series' rotors (if they are actually better) and discounted pads
this would go some way to satisfying the current pissed off customers and distributers
kettle has such a bad name at the moment
I have 2 sets of c-processed rotors, they work for me, but I only do XC and no DH. 180mm front and rear with avid trail brakes


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

ctguru said:


> ...
> I have 2 sets of c-processed rotors, they work for me, but I only do XC and no DH. 180mm front and rear with avid trail brakes


Don't want to sidetrack this thread, but 180 & 180 is a lot of rotor for XC use. I'm not surprised that the Kettles work for you in that sizing. (But you should be able to get away with less - at least without Kettle rotors.)


----------



## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Then again, Kettle's 180 rotors are lighter than pretty much any 160 mm steel rotor, so I don't see the issue of going one size up if braking power is the same and the weight lower.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Crossmaxx said:


> Then again, Kettle's 180 rotors are lighter than pretty much any 160 mm steel rotor, so I don't see the issue of going one size up if braking power is the same and the weight lower.


I'm not so sure about that.

I've used KCNC rotors prior to the Kettles, and while they have a lot of open space, I found them to work pretty well - certainly better than the carbon-based ones. In 160mm, they weigh ~73g each. Total ~146g. The 180mm that ctguru is using are listed as 68g by Kettle. Total is 136g. Yes, less, but only ~10g less.

But wait, there's more...

I don't think any frames are built around dual 180mm rotors. For example, my Specialized Epic is setup on the frame for 160mm up front, and 140mm at the back. I suspect ctguru might need 2 adapters for his frame, but I'll be conservative and assume just one. I'm looking at a Magura adapter. Not sure if it is heavier or lighter than average, but is weighs in at 19g. Put this on his frame, and now his Kettle carbon solution is 10g heavier than equivalent in steel. (I didn't consider the weight of the bolts, BTW.)

The real hurt is around the price:
2 X SICC Kettle 180mm carbon rotors: $179 each, for $358

...and because he now needs the SICC pads:
2 X SICC brake pads: $35 per set: for $70

So, ctguru's expense here is ~ $428

2 X KCNC rotors in 160mm: $45 (with any pads you wish)

So, assuming the dual 180mm rotors work as well as steel (and they still might not), one can expect to pay around $350 more, and have it weigh at least 9-10g more, than a steel solution. I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but I still think that is a tough scenario to sell.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

phlegm said:


> I'm not so sure about that.
> 
> So, assuming the dual 180mm rotors work as well as steel (and the still might not), one can expect to pay around $350 more, and have it weight at least 9-10g more, than a steel solution. I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but I still think that is a tough scenario to sell.


180mm Kettle rotors are less efficient than 140mm xtr on 2009 xtr brakes with xtr pads. 
I compare the rotors from Kettle to rim brakes 20 years ago, they were also easy to modulate, but had little power when out in rain. Just like Kettle rotors.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

phlegm said:


> Don't want to sidetrack this thread, but 180 & 180 is a lot of rotor for XC use. I'm not surprised that the Kettles work for you in that sizing. (But you should be able to get away with less - at least without Kettle rotors.)


Agreed

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

phlegm said:


> I'm not so sure about that.
> 
> I've used KCNC rotors prior to the Kettles, and while they have a lot of open space, I found them to work pretty well - certainly better than the carbon-based ones. In 160mm, they weigh ~73g each. Total ~146g. The 180mm that ctguru is using are listed as 68g by Kettle. Total is 136g. Yes, less, but only ~10g less.
> 
> ...


I'm using avid pads

Totally agree, expensive option and probably not the best

Didn't cost me that much as I'm a kick starter backer

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

phlegm said:


> Don't want to sidetrack this thread, but 180 & 180 is a lot of rotor for XC use. I'm not surprised that the Kettles work for you in that sizing. (But you should be able to get away with less - at least without Kettle rotors.)


Consider it sidetracked .... 

Well, that depends on how much the rider weighs and where the XC riding is. In some places XC is like AM/Enduro. OThers, XC is a flat bore.

If they do not work as well as an equivalent sized steel rotor .. then customers in a more gravity oriented XC area or clydes could be in for a few unpleasant encounters with the flora and fauna.

It almost seems logical to size-up from the feedback on these. If they have excellent modulation, then the extra brake will only enhance the bike.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

TracksFromHell said:


> Consider it sidetracked ....
> 
> Well, that depends on how much the rider weighs and where the XC riding is. In some places XC is like AM/Enduro. OThers, XC is a flat bore.
> 
> ...


I'm 6'4 and about 110kg fully loaded

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

ctguru said:


> I'm 6'4 and about 110kg fully loaded


Then you better get the Kettle's in 200/203 front and back.


----------



## Krout (May 17, 2007)

Not happy with you Kettle brake pads? Will buy new or moderately used pads for the M820/M640 (Saint or Zee 4 piston). I lucked out and rotors work perfect with Kettles pads. Just need more now. 

PM me if you want to sell.


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Krout said:


> Not happy with you Kettle brake pads? Will buy new or moderately used pads for the M820/M640 (Saint or Zee 4 piston). I lucked out and rotors work perfect with Kettles pads. Just need more now.
> 
> PM me if you want to sell.


KETTLE CYCLES Bremsbeläge SiCCC für Shimano Siant M820 | M6


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

sfer1 said:


> KETTLE CYCLES Bremsbeläge SiCCC für Shimano Siant M820 | M6


Only 1 set left.

Whilst I am glad I didn't get a set of discs earlier, I'd love to see this get back to where it should be as a product and see how it goes.

Hopefully it won't be too long before a better set of guys/gals step in and take this fwd.


----------



## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

sfer1 said:


> KETTLE CYCLES Bremsbeläge SiCCC für Shimano Siant M820 | M6


Thanks for the tip! Maybe I can start using the Kettle rotors on my front wheel as well with those...


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

MichaelB said:


> Only 1 set left.
> 
> Whilst I am glad I didn't get a set of discs earlier, I'd love to see this get back to where it should be as a product and see how it goes.
> 
> Hopefully it won't be too long before a better set of guys/gals step in and take this fwd.


would be great for someone else to develop this tech!


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Their inherent heat resistance make them great coasters for coffee mugs.


----------



## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

And on the plus side, you wont need the proprietary pads.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

Just checked out the friendly comments section on their FB page:

Comment

You don't answer to your emails (I sent you around 10 emails so far), you have blocked posting option on your fb wall, you have no possibility for fb messages so there is no way to get any info from you and I try to get any info about my warranty claim and faulty rotor I sent to you can't remember how long ago..!!! PLEASE start answering your email or post some news on your fb wall (if you are out of business or something else)!!!! This is not good PR!!

Dec 5, 2014

Comment

I bought from them through PayPal and after no product and no response, eventually filed a claim against them and got my money back. I think they are out of business.

Dec 9, 2014

Comment

I sent product for warranty/exchange so no luck there with money back... I'll file legal acts against company and responsible/contact person!! I was missled (maybe I'm wrong but it looks like) that by sending back (on their instructions) I will get new product in exchange. Now I don't have anything plus it cost me shipping from EU to USA.

Dec 9, 2014

Comment

I backed this two years ago and still have not got one thing out of them I send email after email I even tried ringing

Dec 15, 2014

Comment

How come you don't respond to emails?

Dec 27, 2014

Comment

The are bankruptcy but why dont she it on the web??

Feb 16

Comment

These guys took 500 dollar off me last year and I've yet to see anything from them...

Apr 22

Comment

I got my two piece rotors finally this winter. They were missing a bolt that attaches the rotor to the center aluminum piece, and they sent the wrong rotors. Tried calling 4 times. No response. Tried emailing as well.

Apr 24

Comment

If you purchased the two piece on kick starter, you had to listen to two years of sporadic blogs of the owner moaning. Saw this coming. Too bad, could have been cool. I was psyched when I got my hands on them, installed one on the rear wheel and it works, would be nice to have the correct pad.

Apr 24

Comment

Figured out why they went bankrupt today. First ride on the rear two piece. After a 2000 ft downhill three of the screws that hold the rotor to the center piece were gone. Middle of nowhere, so had to limp out. Next downhill, hit the rear brakes and the carbon rotor ripped from the center piece. I was really trying to be front brake heavy, I mean heavy. Total crap.

·*Apr 29


----------



## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

I wouldn't be too hard on these kickstarter entrepreneurs... Maybe thier ground breaking expertise Is being better utilized by the automotive or aerospace industries.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

cptjack said:


> I wouldn't be too hard on these kickstarter entrepreneurs... Maybe thier ground breaking expertise Is being better utilized by the automotive or aerospace industries.


I think their biggest issue was customer service in the end

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

ctguru said:


> I think their biggest issue was customer service in the end


I would have to agree with that as well. I was a Kickstarter backer too, and totally get the kinks they ran into in terms of production, and product refinement (C-processing, matching carbon brake pads, etc.). However, I would not accept the lack of response to customer service inquiries. Yes, I'm sure they were busy beyond words, but that did not prevent them from hiring a part-time kid to at least respond to emails.


----------



## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

comment removed


----------



## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

The Kettle pads came in the mail from R2 Bikes today. They work A LOT better than the resin Shimano pads I have been using so far!

I haven't tested them at high speed, but what I felt from my quick spin was enough to give me confidence in that they will give me enough breaking power under all circumstances.

After 2 years of waiting, I can finally use the Kettles in front as well now. I should have tried this earlier.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

Svend P said:


> The Kettle pads came in the mail from R2 Bikes today. They work A LOT better than the resin Shimano pads I have been using so far!
> 
> I haven't tested them at high speed, but what I felt from my quick spin was enough to give me confidence in that they will give me enough breaking power under all circumstances.
> 
> ...


That's a nice bike man. Enve wheels et. al. How much does that weigh?

I'm not surprised that they work suitably on a road bike. They seemed acceptable to me at speed on flat ground for usual stopping. They lacked for fast stops and for downhill stops.

The real problem was that the slower I was traveling in steep terrain, the worse they were.

And my front pads wore in no time.

Now, those rotors don't look like mine. Are they the latest f-processed ones?

Also, if i may ask. Why are you using Saints on a road bike? Some people do that for legit reasons, just not the norm. Curious.

But I'm happy you found pads. I've got two barely used rotors here protecting my coffee table from spills and stains ...

To bad that r bike only had one pair ...


----------



## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm not sure how much it weighs. Probably 8.5 kg. There is not much on the bike which was ment to make it lighter. Mostly I chose for comfort or durability. Or design  

They are 2. gen. Kettle. I also have some 1. gen. I use Saint calibers, because they only weighted 50 grams or so more than the XTR calibers. And with Kettle rotors I needed all the stopping power I could get. Plus I can share pads with my two MTB's with Zee calibers. 

They may or may not not be Enve rims. Could be Lightbicycle rims with Enve decals because of the nice colors. I caught some flak for doing that to some Derby rims, so I probably should keep it to myself. To some it is sacrilege. But hey, I even have a Ferrari logo on my Toyota Aygo because it is funny!

And the offer from R2 was actually for two pairs of pads, so I have for the front wheel for my MTB as well now


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

Svend P said:


> I'm not sure how much it weighs. Probably 8.5 kg. There is not much on the bike which was ment to make it lighter. Mostly I chose for comfort or durability. Or design
> 
> They are 2. gen. Kettle. I also have some 1. gen. I use Saint calibers, because they only weighted 50 grams or so more than the XTR calibers. And with Kettle rotors I needed all the stopping power I could get. Plus I can share pads with my two MTB's with Zee calibers.
> 
> ...


All makes sense. Saints was a good idea then! And 2 pairs ... Score! :thumbsup:Good on you for snatching them up.

Perhaps some pad maker will come out with a more carbon based formula that plays nice with these rotors.

Until then enjoy ... 

I'm still a little bitter for buying these and then not getting any replies from them before they went bust (if that is in fact what has happened although perhaps they are just ignoring us all until they relaunch or sell...).

Please let us know how it all works out with the stopping once you get them fully tested.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Svend P,

And I thought I was the only one using those calipers on a disc roadie :yesnod:

Nice looking bike though :thumbsup:

Mine is a Volagi Liscio with Zee calipers, but as I was a bit hesitant to spend my money, so I'm on the normal style steel rotors. I'm currently using 180 front and 140 rear Hayes V7 & V5, running the std Shimano resin non-finned pads.

You did well from R2 with the pads. Be interesting to see how long they last on the road, as some MTB people have been saying that they wear pretty quick.

Keep us informed !!

Cheers

Michael B


----------



## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

Chapter 2: The Niner

I put the new Kettle pads on a 2. gen. rotor on my Niner MTB in front, hoping to get the same good results. From the get go, they needed more bedding in just to get some bite, and braking was not as consistent or as good as with the Specialized.

I have now ridden 100 km with them, and the results are not good. They did not improve much, and are definitely not better than Shimano resin pads. The do brake, so they are not totally unusable, but it is annying that you have to press the brake lever really hard every time just to slow down. And you never have too much braking, it is always on the edge of what you need (and I live in a contry without mountains, we only have hills). So I will be replacing it with a Shimano ICE tech rotor in front again.

A small confession

In hindsight, I now realise that the good results I got with the Crux was maybe not from from the new Kettle pads, but from the rotor itself. I forgot to mention that breaking improved a lot in the back with the original Shimano Saint pads, so irregardless of the new Kettle pads, I had the intention to try them up front anyway. But I never got to try it out before the new pads arrived. So for now my theory is that they got contaminated with something that actually helped traction. But still with the reservation, that I haven't properly ridden it yet...

It is such a shame, because carbon rotors just look kewl!


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Svend P said:


> ...So for now my theory is that they got contaminated with something that actually helped traction.




Let me know what you contaminated them with. Could be the secret we need.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

Svend P said:


> It is such a shame, because carbon rotors just look kewl!
> 
> View attachment 990812


Agree. Who cares if it doesn't stop. Looks awesome!


----------



## shehateme (Mar 21, 2009)

Wow! Very Nice!


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

They are crap! I've used them since their kickstarter release. Thought they were ok until I put metal rotors on my new fat bike. The carbon rotors just don't stop when compared to metal


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

ctguru said:


> They are crap! I've used them since their kickstarter release. Thought they were ok until I put metal rotors on my new fat bike. The carbon rotors just don't stop when compared to metal


Yeah. Slowly I'm coming to the same conclusion as you. I told myself that it was ok to have reduced braking on the rear wheel, but now that I have changed back to a metal rotor on my commuter, I have to admit it still makes a huge change in the braking performance of the bike.

Sometimes I use the rear brake to turn sharper into corners. With the Kettle rotors, you loose a lot of that aid and it just makes you a worse rider for it. Not better, as they initially clamed. It also makes you slower, because you have to brake earlier going into corners.

I took a quick spin on the Crux today. It DOES brake better on the front brake than what I have ever tried with the Kettle rotors. But that is still only about 70% of what a metal rotor can produce. And they lack initial bite. It takes a microsecond longer for them to grab the bike, which isn't what you need to inspire confidence.

After two years, I think I finally have given up on them... I don't want to have to spend so much energy on experimenting with them, and not have any benefits from it. They look cool, but now I'm eyeing some red Hope rotors instead


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I made at least 3 (unplanned) trips into the trees when I used them. Wanted them to be great. They weren't.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

I have some bacon in the fridge and my grill is dirty. I think I'll try them as a hotplate  pictures or video?


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

TracksFromHell said:


> I have some bacon in the fridge and my grill is dirty. I think I'll try them as a hotplate  pictures or video?


Love it! Do it!


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

TracksFromHell said:


> (...) pictures or video?


both


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

Just had the most amazing Kirkland Signature low sodium bacon, cooked to perfection on the the Kettle 180mm Siccc rotor.

And, off course. with a very fine red wine.



Video is uploading as I finish off the last few bits of bacon ...


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Yikes! I think your stomach might be C-processed now.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

I think I might cook up some more. The non-bacon side seems to clean up better, but nothing the dishwasher can't handle.

Man, that bacon was some fine goooood!
I just put on round two with another half pound. I seared this time, but only for 30 seconds. You know what they say for good bacon, "low and slow'.

Kettle brake bacon! Almost better than Canadian Back Bacon!!

5 minutes into the second batch and I think the bacon is processing even better! B-processed baby!


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

damn... that bacon looks awesome... man i'm drooling over my keyboard...
think i know what's gonna be my breakfast...


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

Always cook it well. No need to get Siccc 

Presenting 'how to make Sic bacon!'


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mmmm bacon


----------



## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

SO WTF happened to these guys? I just got a msg on FB that Kettle cycles has changed their name to SIC rotors. Are these guys really still in business?!? No one tried to sue them? I mean, really?

https://www.facebook.com/SICrotors/?fref=ts


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dunno, but I saw a fast guy at our race on Saturday with the carbon rotors. I have to wonder how they work here in the frigid North. Maybe not as bad in the winter as down South?


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

There are these things called steel rotors. They work amazingly well. They cost very little. They are amazingly durable. And the companies that produce them are 100000% better at customer service than a sick, unreliable, customer unfriendly, noncommunicative, lying, and over hyped, one person show that ignores all their customers and then waits for all the massive and widespread disgruntlement to die down before each yearly "relaunch" of the same failed product. You might be familiar with such a company from your own experiences.

Better to be healthy than 'sick'. Pun intended.


----------



## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

But, but.... 3.5 ounces!!! That's like... 500Lbs of rotational weight!!!


If it works on high-tech race cars, it can only be an improvement. Next up: Pads made of steel, rotors made of sintered copper.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I was one of the first backers and received both the first gen and 2nd gen C rotors. The c rotors were better but lacked any real stopping power. I also was one of the first to get the pads, and oh man did that help. Real 1 finger power and the modulation was worlds better than any brake I have ever used.
Full XTR with 180mm. resin pads rear. c pads front. I miss this setup as it was best I've ever had. The static friction on Sic rotors is truly a game changer at the limits of traction. That's the reason aircraft and the military use it. I never faded them and braking power as consistent regardless of temperature. I ride crazy steep stuff so I'm hard on brakes.
Idea was great. Performance promise was living up to the hype with the new pads.
Now the bad:
Warped out of the box with no way to true them. What's the point of brakes that constantly rub.
Constant frustration with the owners who were over there head and lashed out at any criticism.
In the end I reluctantly took them off because of the constant rubbing and the lack of support from the company.
They need to do right by us if they ever hope to make it as a company.

FYI I wouldn't cook on them as there is probably toxic material going into your food.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

This was an interesting comment just saw on their Facebook. 

" Figured out why they went bankrupt today. First ride on the rear two piece. After a 2000 ft downhill three of the screws that hold the rotor to the center piece were gone. Middle of nowhere, so had to limp out. Next downhill, hit the rear brakes and the carbon rotor ripped from the center piece. I was really trying to be front brake heavy, I mean heavy. Total crap."

That would indeed be a bad situation. And it could happen for sure with the Sic material. 

The scary thing is that fatigue is hard to spot in composites until it is too late.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Interesting that they don't seem to have any contact details on their new website


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

ctguru said:


> Interesting that they don't seem to have any contact details on their new website
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If they did, I'm guessing they would be drowned in mails and complains from previous users.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Aglo said:


> If they did, I'm guessing they would be drowned in mails and complains from previous users.


That's what I was thinking

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

ctguru said:


> Interesting that they don't seem to have any contact details on their new website


[email protected]

Just put '@sic-rotors.com' into google, the page with that email address isn't valid anymore but you'll get a result that has it, you can see the page as a google cached page.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

cobba said:


> [email protected]
> 
> Just put '@sic-rotors.com' into google, the page with that email address isn't valid anymore but you'll get a result that has it, you can see the page as a google cached page.


I'll email them to see if they have a product that actually works!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

ctguru said:


> I'll email them to see if they have a product that actually works!


And what response did you get?


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

TracksFromHell said:


> And what response did you get?


Forgot, I'll email them now

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

This is a copy of the email I sent them


Just wondering if the product has been refined so it actually works comparable to metal rotors?

I have a couple of sets of the C-processed 180mm and I thought they were good and used them for a couple of years. But when I went back to metal the difference was amazing. Carbons stopping ability is severely lacking compared to metal rotors

Are there any new reviews of the product? I would suggest previous users of your product have been burnt and would be reluctant to try them again

cheers

REPLY

Hello,

The pads exceed ISO 4210 and we have posted the results here: ISO 4210
Mating pad and rotor is an important factor. 

Thank you for your interest


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Can you pass along the URL they sent you? I can't seem to find the ISO piece on their site, although I am lazy and didn't look that hard.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

http://www.sic-rotors.com/v/vspfiles/photos/SICreport.pdf


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

I also asked have they solved the warping problem in my follow up email


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

That report that they provided does not really mean/prove anything unless you can compare it to a comparable system (i.e. same size steel rotors and resin/metal pads).

It just shows they passed a test, not how well it passed or how it compares with others.

I'll still be holding on to my money for the moment, as I presume will other smart people


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

MichaelB said:


> That report that they provided does not really mean/prove anything unless you can compare it to a comparable system (i.e. same size steel rotors and resin/metal pads).
> 
> It just shows they passed a test, not how well it passed or how it compares with others.
> 
> I'll still be holding on to my money for the moment, as I presume will other smart people


Definitely not going to drop any more coin on his product unless they do an independent review compared to metal

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

ctguru said:


> http://www.sic-rotors.com/v/vspfiles/photos/SICreport.pdf


Thanks, but this actually proves nothing.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

reply regarding warping:

I believe you are referring to the original start up issues during scale up.
The brand is now owned by the same group as the chemical manufacturers. 
All processing is with in accordance to processing guidelines.


So they are avoiding the questions, here is my reply:


that doesn't answer the question

the problem you have is previous customer experience

you need to get your product out to individual reviewers for product testing 

there are pages and pages on the internet about how poor the original product was

maybe flick some free samples to MTBAction magazine and a like for review

if I order a set and they warp, will I get my money back?


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

ctguru said:


> Definitely not going to drop any more coin on his product unless they do an independent review compared to metal


Definitely not going to drop any more coin, regardless.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

ctguru said:


> ...
> The brand is now owned by the same group as the chemical manufacturers.
> All processing is with in accordance to processing guidelines.
> ...


Are they owned by someone outside the US at this point? The responses seem like borderline gibberish.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

phlegm said:


> Are they owned by someone outside the US at this point? The responses seem like borderline gibberish.


That's what I was thinking

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

This is there reply

Hello,

Thank you for your feedback. Our products are warrantied for manufacture defect.

Best regards. 

Still haven't answered the questions


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Reply back with a link to this thread. If they care, they will respond. If not, then you know what to do with your money.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

the-one1 said:


> Reply back with a link to this thread. If they care, they will respond. If not, then you know what to do with your money.


I'm happy with my metal rotors at the moment. I'm happy to use them if they give me a set to try

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Whatever you do, don't buy these rotors.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

Crossmaxx said:


> Whatever you do, don't buy these rotors.


I've all ready got 2 sets 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Many of us have these rotors. 
They do not function better than the cheepest of V-brakes did 30 years ago. 
Some have claimed that they have these rotors functioning well, I wanted them to function. They did not for me. 
Good looking rotors is not what should replace a functioning brake system.



ctguru said:


> I've all ready got 2 sets
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Bit of an old thread, but noticed someone referencing these Alpha RS rotors:
Ceramic Disc Alpha RS 160mm | Alpha Motocicletas

Do these actually work? Seem identical to the Kettles. (?)


----------



## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

phlegm said:


> Bit of an old thread, but noticed someone referencing these Alpha RS rotors:
> Ceramic Disc Alpha RS 160mm | Alpha Motocicletas
> 
> Do these actually work? Seem identical to the Kettles. (?)


Don't know if they are the same, and/or if they work. But if you want some expensive drink coasters...


----------



## rob20rx7 (Mar 5, 2013)

Just for info, i had a set of the originals. 180 and 160mm on my EPIC. They worked fine for the regular trails we have here in south florida. I didn't notice anything better with them, just the cool factor when I went out. I sold that bike since and would love to find a set for my niner. Maybe that new website could work.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Interesting that they are very similar to the Kettles (original & reincarnation), but the website mentions that they are made in Spain.
Currently their bicycle range is limited to the rotors and Mtn e-bikes.

I'll keep my money in my wallet a bit longer ....


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I wonder if they own the patent now. Kettle is M.I.A. at this point, and if you look at post #674 above, the last responses from Kettle appeared to be from someone outside the U.S.

In any event, several of us were burned with Kettle, so if anyone is successfully using Alphas, I'd be keen to know the details.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

phlegm said:


> I wonder if they own the patent now. Kettle is M.I.A. at this point, and if you look at post #674 above, the last responses from Kettle appeared to be from someone outside the U.S.
> 
> In any event, several of us were burned with Kettle, so if anyone is successfully using Alphas, I'd be keen to know the details.


Kettle sorta popped back up late 2015 as sic-rotor.com, and they were offering the rotors and pads (made by Kettle) as they bought/took over the Kettle gear, but now that website is dead.










Seems that Alligator showed a kettle-ish looking rotor at Eurobike along with finned pads, but it seems that that is all so far - nothing else.

Putting it all together, it seems like there are takers for what was left and trying to get it going via other sources, but other than that (and without the appropriate pad compounds to match, it's sort of vapourware


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

MichaelB said:


> Kettle sorta popped back up late 2015 as sic-rotor.com, and they were offering the rotors and pads (made by Kettle) as they bought/took over the Kettle gear, but now that website is dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Kettle and Sic rotors & pads were not the same, the Sic rotors were better than Kettles rotors but the Sic pads were way worse than anything Kettle ever offered. Besides the visual differences, the Sic pads would glaze/fade on long steep DH's to , the point of zero stopping power. Kettles last pad Gen, the Metal pads were not bad, the lasted well, ran silent, didn't fade, they just needed more power.
I don't think the Alpha rotors have any correlation with the Kettle rotors as there is way to much of a weight difference. Kettle 160mm = 60 grams. Alpha = 41 grams.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

xc71 said:


> The Kettle and Sic rotors & pads were not the same, the Sic rotors were better than Kettles rotors but the Sic pads were way worse than anything Kettle ever offered. Besides the visual differences, the Sic pads would glaze/fade on long steep DH's to , the point of zero stopping power. Kettles last pad Gen, the Metal pads were not bad, the lasted well, ran silent, didn't fade, they just needed more power.
> I don't think the Alpha rotors have any correlation with the Kettle rotors as there is way to much of a weight difference. Kettle 160mm = 60 grams. Alpha = 41 grams.


Can't reply re differences between Kettle & SIC as I never parted with my money. 
Claimed weights are one thing, and actual is another.

Be interesting to see what comes out in the near future !!


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Claimed weight and actual weight can be the same. Maybe it is, maybe not.

The interesting is if the rotors are any good: Not warped or wobbling, if they have any advantages compared to metal rotors and very important: If there are any brake pads that work well with the rotors.

I wrote to the Alpha: Products | Alpha Motocicletas - I [email protected] ; [email protected] and received an answer:

"First of all is to say that Alpha is not kettle or sicc...similar but not the same.
Do not appear in any of our products because we did not want leaks on the project.They were tested in our ebike that will be on the market, which can be seen on the web (wildcat series)
We are a Spanish company that opts to investigate new technologies to create the ceramic carbon rotor Alpha RS.
All designed and manufactured in Spain
The Alpha rotors are compatible with any organic-ceramic or ceramic Pads.
I will attach a link as you find an Alpha RS rotor, after it has been used with metal pads (not recommended)

__
http://instagr.am/p/BMOJ2OcD5ze/
 "

I have not found any ceramic pads for my SAINT M820 brakes and I do not know of any organic-ceramic pads ( I will not buy more from Kettle or Sicc, have wasted enough money on them ) so I am not likely to test out the Alpha rotors.

If a lot, or some of us, that have bad experience with carbon rotors, or could be interested in rotors of other material than metal, wrote them and asked questions, maybe we could get some useful answers. MTBR members should be an interesting customer group for a company selling bike parts. Maybe a member with reputation could convince the company that they should give a rotor with pads to test (preferably, in my mind, a member that says something more interesting and informative than: "mmmm bacon").


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wait, are you saying you don't like bacon?


----------



## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

I have a set of the Alpha's but still in the process of a rebuild so haven't yet had a chance to really test them. I am trying the TruckerCo pads (organic semi-metallic) to see if they will work, Trucker even offered to send me a choice of pads to try and feedback to them any results.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

phlegm said:


> Wait, are you saying you don't like bacon?


I prefer fresh air to the smell of burnt grease; but it is OK for me if that is what you want. I mean that bacon has little or no relation to riding a bike or time spent on it.

Try 30 bananas a day if you want to stay healthy.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

poynt said:


> I have a set of the Alpha's but still in the process of a rebuild so haven't yet had a chance to really test them. I am trying the TruckerCo pads (organic semi-metallic) to see if they will work, Trucker even offered to send me a choice of pads to try and feedback to them any results.


Could organic semi-metallic be what Alpha mean when they mention that organic-ceramic function with their rotors?
They mention that metallic pads are not recommended.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

las-palmas said:


> I prefer fresh air to the smell of burnt grease; but it is OK for me if that is what you want. I mean that bacon has little or no relation to riding a bike or time spent on it.
> 
> Try 30 bananas a day if you want to stay healthy.


Whoa, slow down! You're telling me that bacon has no relation to riding a bike? IMO, the top 3 innovations in cycling in the past 20 years have been: hydraulic brakes, running tubeless, and bacon.

(I think you've missed a few jokes in this thread. Namely, post #648.)


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

mmmmm bacon!

Always cook it well. No need to get Sic


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

phlegm said:


> Whoa, slow down! You're telling me that bacon has no relation to riding a bike? IMO, the top 3 innovations in cycling in the past 20 years have been: hydraulic brakes, running tubeless, and bacon.
> 
> (I think you've missed a few jokes in this thread. Namely, post #648.)


I am wasting my time here. Shall stop with that! Good bye wise guys


----------



## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

Trucker state on their site for the OSM pads:

"The highest performance model. These are popular with the cross-country and down-hill race crowd. With a little softer compound stopping distance is shorter, noise is eliminated, and heat is reduced. Excellent performance in wet and dry conditions.* Best pads for scrub alloy, and kettle carbon rotors. Safe for "resin only" rotors*"

guess I'll have to see how they go.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

TracksFromHell said:


> mmmmm bacon!
> 
> Always cook it well. No need to get Sic


Damn, Tracks your still alive after cookin up 160mm of bacon every Sunday morning for last year on those rotors.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

poynt said:


> Trucker state on their site for the OSM pads:
> 
> "The highest performance model. These are popular with the cross-country and down-hill race crowd. With a little softer compound stopping distance is shorter, noise is eliminated, and heat is reduced. Excellent performance in wet and dry conditions.* Best pads for scrub alloy, and kettle carbon rotors. Safe for "resin only" rotors*"
> 
> guess I'll have to see how they go.


So how much longer before you get them into action ?

Still interested to see the results.


----------



## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

MichaelB said:


> So how much longer before you get them into action ?
> 
> Still interested to see the results.


in the process of getting frame sanded and altered at mo, so a few more weeks yet.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

poynt said:


> I have a set of the Alpha's but still in the process of a rebuild so haven't yet had a chance to really test them. I am trying the TruckerCo pads (organic semi-metallic) to see if they will work, Trucker even offered to send me a choice of pads to try and feedback to them any results.


Didn't you have a confirmed weight of 41 grams on the Alpha 160mm ?
Thanks for the tip on the pads, I will have mine this week.


----------



## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

xc71 said:


> Didn't you have a confirmed weight of 41 grams on the Alpha 160mm ?
> Thanks for the tip on the pads, I will have mine this week.


I managed to get mine when they were doing the two for the price of 1 promo :thumbsup:

140 ans 160mm rotors


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Thanks for the scale shots. Can you give a quick indication of consistency, i.e. are they "flat"? How about width? Thx.


----------



## poynt (Jan 15, 2004)

width is accurate at smidge under 2mm, I lightly sanded the edges of the disc as they were a little too square/sharpe. Flatness is OK, I get a little rub, but I think that is more to do with my Formula brakes and pad clearances than the discs themselves.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

poynt said:


> width is accurate at smidge under 2mm, I lightly sanded the edges of the disc as they were a little too square/sharpe. Flatness is OK, I get a little rub, but I think that is more to do with my Formula brakes and pad clearances than the discs themselves.


Lucky you for getting them at a good price.

What pads are you using with them ? What calipers ?

How is the braking ? esp. compared to steel rotors ?

Any pics of them mounted ?

Thanks in advance


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

xc71 said:


> Damn, Tracks your still alive after cookin up 160mm of bacon every Sunday morning for last year on those rotors.


Saturated fat isn't all that bad for you they now say


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

las-palmas said:


> I am wasting my time here. Shall stop with that! Good bye wise guys


LOL

Dont let the door hit ya in the arse on the way out.

And please pass the bacon!


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

This is one of those items, that based on history & past experiences, should be forgotten about and no further money wasted.

HOWEVER, there are a few people out there in the know that understand these puppies, and I am keen as mustard (but a bit too broke) to see them work.

It seems the key sticking point is that they need to be sold as a rotor/pad set, in that the pads need to be of the right material (according to those wise poeple) in order for it to work properly. Still trying to understand myself why this is so, and will therefore still wait patiently on the sidelines watching with interest until that time.

So, keenly waiting on poynt's experiences and feedback


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Just noticed that they are now offering the rotors with discounts ranging from 45% to 17% off.

140mm reduced to 56 Euro (from 102)
160mm reduced to 67 Euro (from 105)
180mm reduced to 74 Euro (from 109)
203mm reduced to 98 Euro (from 119)

Hmmmmmmmm

Fired off an email to them the other day but haven't rec'd a response yet.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

MichaelB said:


> This is one of those items, that based on history & past experiences, should be forgotten about and no further money wasted.
> 
> ...


Agreed.

We were all burned with the Kettle, and while they are great for cooking *B A C O N*, they aren't good for much else. Looking at the Alphas, they seem identical - not that it means much. Perhaps they are entirely different. However carbon-ceramic is carbon-ceramic, right?

We absolutely need to know if there's an optimal pad required, and more importantly, if we can readily get them.



MichaelB said:


> Just noticed that they are now offering the rotors with discounts ranging from 45% to 17% off.
> 
> ...


Don't do this to me Michael. Don't tempt me with the sale prices. Don't do it. Stop. Please. No power. Must... speak ... slowly.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

phlegm said:


> Don't do this to me Michael. Don't tempt me with the sale prices. Don't do it. Stop. Please. No power. Must... speak ... slowly.


Tell me about it !!! :nono::nono::nono:

Still means a A$170 investment, but don't have the spare readies this week.

I've done some online reviews for another forum, so have contacted the site owner to see if he can wangle something. Ironically, we just missed out on getting some early Kettle rotors ......


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Alpha has got a mention on Bike Rumor

https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/11/18/alphas-ceramic-rotor-rs-superlight-spanish-carbon-disc-brake-rotors/

Gotta laugh at some of the responses though.

I still find it interesting that they are very non-specific with the recommended pads. They don't mention a brand, specific compound or even provide a link to a recommended supplier.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

MichaelB said:


> Alpha has got a mention on Bike Rumor
> 
> https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/11/18/alphas-ceramic-rotor-rs-superlight-spanish-carbon-disc-brake-rotors/
> 
> ...


Come clean, you skimmed the first paragraph didn't you  .

They says that with ceramic brake pads it out perform steel rotors.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

You are certainly a well-educated and polite person.
I wish you all the best with your quality opinions about brake systems; and junk food as well. Some of your comments might be better if they were placed in another forum, but that is of course only my opinion.
On the other hand, saying such intelligent things as: mmmm bacon - just might be the reason that your reputation is so high.
Sorry for not answering before, but I only go here now and then to see if something more interesting than your comments, maybe about brake pads that does function with carbon rotors would come up.



006_007 said:


> LOL
> 
> Dont let the door hit ya in the arse on the way out.
> 
> And please pass the bacon!


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

las-palmas - we're just having a bit of fun here at a product (Kettle carbon discs) that just didn't work. I personally bought them via the Kickstarter, and several other people did as well. I find it cathartic to laugh about it. 

I'm not sure why you're so offended to the random jokes about processed meat, but surely we have the right to some fun.

Amidst the bacon references, there are some responses as we dig to see what the Alphas are capable of, and what pads are required. I'm somewhat pessimistic, as design-wise, and composition-wise they are nearly identical to the failed Kettle rotors, and thus I'm concerned that the same issues will arise. poynt has even confirmed some rub (non-flatness) which is another thing I struggled with when I beta-tested the Kettles.

Now, if there's a different surface coating on the Alphas, or a different pad composition that works - great - I guess we'll find out.

In the meantime, I wish you smokey-goodness.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

At least someone here is chill!
And it is snowing ... deep up North right now. 
Perhaps I can use my discs as a hotplate for my waxing iron?


----------



## -jes (Feb 6, 2011)

Offers finished, that was very close almost pressed the button.

Will wait on performance feedback


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I would stear clear of any non metal rotor. I was lucky enough to get one of the first sets of kettle rotors and also 3 sets of upgraded rotors including pads. I still have them and took them out of there box last week when I was organizing my bike parts. They are so badly warped it's not even funny, +- 4mm or more. I really liked the feel and power with the sicc pads. Best setup braking system I have ever used. The problem was that they were never true and even without use got more out of true everyday. The static friction doesn't increase on them like a normal rotor does. You could feather them at the very edge of traction, especially on the rear.
This style of rotor is manufactured under tension, then machined flat. That tension is released as the rotor wears or the internal bonds break down, warping the rotor and since you can't true them they turn into junk. Once burned twice shy.
I recommend staying away from all look alikes for the foreseeable future.
Ohh and Bacon mmmmmmhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm. sizzle sizzle.


----------



## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

Carbon weave seems fishy to me. The pads aren't riding on carbon, they're riding on the epoxy that was used to hold it all together. At least, until the rotors wear a bit, at which point the pads are now alternating between riding on epoxy and riding on the high spots in the carbon weave. I can only wonder what that does for performance (and consistency) but I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.

But on the other hand, if you're super eager to shave an ounce from each axle... Who am I to judge?

I wonder if it would be possible to make something more like the rotors used in race cars and cost-no-object sports cars, but tailored to the temperature ranges of mountain bikes. Whoever makes those has apparently figured out how to cope with heat and wear, so bike rotors ought to be a trivial exercise.

Then again, if I had the expertise and tooling to make $$,$$$ race car rotors I doubt I could be bothered to invest in R&D and tooling for $$$ bike rotors. So I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

alexbn921 said:


> I would stear clear of any non metal rotor. I was lucky enough to get one of the first sets of kettle rotors and also 3 sets of upgraded rotors including pads. I still have them and took them out of there box last week when I was organizing my bike parts. They are so badly warped it's not even funny, +- 20mm or more. I really liked the feel and power with the sicc pads. Best setup braking system I have ever used. The problem was that they were never true and even without use got more out of true everyday. The static friction doesn't increase on them like a normal rotor does. You could feather them at the very edge of traction, especially on the rear.
> This style of rotor is manufactured under tension, then machined flat. That tension is released as the rotor wears or the internal bonds break down, warping the rotor and since you can't true them they turn into junk. Once burned twice shy.
> I recommend staying away from all look alikes for the foreseeable future.
> Ohh and Bacon mmmmmmhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm. sizzle sizzle.


How did you manage to warp your rotors 20mm. Did you get run over by a bus or loose your bike over a cliff? I have a couple of Kettle rotors with some warping, but its less than 2mm. At 20mm the wheel will not turn even with both brake pads removed.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

NWS said:


> Carbon weave seems fishy to me. The pads aren't riding on carbon, they're riding on the epoxy that was used to hold it all together. At least, until the rotors wear a bit, at which point the pads are now alternating between riding on epoxy and riding on the high spots in the carbon weave. I can only wonder what that does for performance (and consistency) but I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.


I'm not sure I understand you.
You are saying that there is actually epoxy in the discs?


----------



## -jes (Feb 6, 2011)

If you can remember back to the 90s and rim brakes, I am sure mavic used to coat the rims brake surface with something hard wearing (ceramic material?) 

From some previous experience there is technology out there to high energy deposition coat a range of materials onto a base object, does anyone know if this was what Kettle were doing to their rotors as a post production process?


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

TracksFromHell said:


> I'm not sure I understand you.
> You are saying that there is actually epoxy in the discs?


What do you think carbon fibre is?

It's carbon weave and epoxy, thats essentially carbon fibre

I'm assuming the discs have to be made in a similar fashion

I have 2 sets of the kettle rotors and I thought they were great, until I went back to metal rotors. Absolutely no comparison

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

-jes said:


> If you can remember back to the 90s and rim brakes, I am sure mavic used to coat the rims brake surface with something hard wearing (ceramic material?)
> 
> From some previous experience there is technology out there to high energy deposition coat a range of materials onto a base object, does anyone know if this was what Kettle were doing to their rotors as a post production process?


You guys are stabbing the beast in the dark with your eyes closed and your hands tied behind your backs. If you do some research you will find out what Carbon brakes are all about. Google is your friend. While you are at it, try 'carbon ceramic', 'carbon/sic' and anything else related.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

-jes said:


> If you can remember back to the 90s and rim brakes, I am sure mavic used to coat the rims brake surface with something hard wearing (ceramic material?)
> 
> From some previous experience there is technology out there to high energy deposition coat a range of materials onto a base object, does anyone know if this was what Kettle were doing to their rotors as a post production process?


Completely different idea and I have the spinergy ceramic coated rims. What can I say I like oddball bike parts. They smell funny when you brake really hard.


Took mine out of the box for a show and tell.



Good luck trying to true those.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

alexbn921 said:


> Took mine out of the box for a show and tell.
> 
> 
> Good luck trying to true those.


Yikes ...

And I'm following a recommendation to sit tight and wait for a bit long (quite a bit longer ....) before I consider.

The std steel rotors and good pads work a treat.


----------



## Uphill=sad (Dec 8, 2011)

Zelvy Carbon in Australia, are or are about to release a carbon rotor as well, with a carbon spider with an alloy braking surface. Claiming 50g for a 160mm, who knows this might be another solution to standing out from the crowd, with brakes that may or may not work?

https://www.zelvycarbon.com/products/zelvy-brakelite-composite-brake-rotor?variant=23676372545


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Very interesting.

The photo on that page (and the only one I can find) shows the alloy braking surface as black, which is cool, but I wonder if that's an accurate depiction?


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

When they say alloy they don't specify what alloy it is. Probably it's aluminum alloy, but could be steel, or titanium alloy...
If it's aluminum alloy I can envision serious crashes on the near feature.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Aglo said:


> When they say alloy they don't specify what alloy it is. .....


From the blurb, it says that it's ' _*stealth ceramic*_ coated alloy' (their italics) and that it has a life of over 10,000 braking cycles when used with their pads.

I'm gonna find out some more 

And it's even better that they are an Aussie company !!!


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I'm trying to envision what they mean by a "braking cycle". One full rotation of the rotor while under pad force?

How many cycles would one typically encounter on a 1 hour ride of mixed terrain? I have no idea, but suspect 10K might add up faster than we think.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Probably. a 'cycle' would probably be a solid braking effort taht lasts 10+ seconds with a decent decceleration. 

How to quantify that, I dunno.

It's interesting that they are also rated for AM/Enduro, and not Downhill, and are also weight limited.

I'm a roadie, so no thoughts of DH, but also do some decent braking on the road.

Got a chat going, and they'll be available in the new year, and have plenty of pad options. Pricing has not yet been fully set, so it's still a waiting game.

Despite all the negative press re the SiC/carbon rotors, I'd be more likely to give the Zelby ones a go.

Standing by to standby.


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Well I am very worried about the Alpha rotors right now . My testing was only done within a few miles on a lightweight trail bike (not my 4.8kg mtb) . These guys are really hammering down on the rotors with the large fat bikes and heavy trail riding . I'm not sure the rotors can hold up to that amount of torque .

I am slightly pissed because all the testing I have done (and I am not a big company with lots of money to throw at R&D) on the parts I have made all passed . The rotors were the last thing on my mind to think they would fail .

I am busy looking at this forum as more guys on here are going to be testing them in the next few days :

Discos de freno de carbono ALPHA RS (cuidado con ellos) | ForoMTB.com

Oh and I love bacon . Not sure about ceramic bacon though although would go down the gullet quite easily  !!!


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

I looked at your photos. There is something definitely wrong with those rotors are they C/Sic or just CF?

BTW - I tested the Kettle ones, they didn't stop very well, but they stood up to some of the steepest nastiest riding and breaking.

I would hesitate to use anything for MTBR that can fracture in a crash though, can you imagine being stranded with a long outback downhill ahead just to save a few grams?



karimian5 said:


> Well I am very worried about the Alpha rotors right now . My testing was only done within a few miles on a lightweight trail bike (not my 4.8kg mtb) . These guys are really hammering down on the rotors with the large fat bikes and heavy trail riding . I'm not sure the rotors can hold up to that amount of torque .
> 
> I am slightly pissed because all the testing I have done (and I am not a big company with lots of money to throw at R&D) on the parts I have made all passed . The rotors were the last thing on my mind to think they would fail .
> 
> ...


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Tracks, I am guessing little to no C/Sic, just CF. I had wondered how Alpha rotors were 20 grams lighter than Kettles, guess thats how they did it. Doesn't appear they have tested them on any kind of steep sustained DH trail. 
Kettles rotors were far from perfect, but at least none of their rotors shredded in two rides like these Alpha's. I have a couple of Kettle and SIC rotors that did not warp. I have 3 seasons on the Kettles and the braking surface is still like new.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

Sounds like it. The kettle ones are real ceramic CF matrix. Those Alpha ones look like CF alone! 



xc71 said:


> Tracks, I am guessing little to no C/Sic, just CF. I had wondered how Alpha rotors were 20 grams lighter than Kettles, guess thats how they did it. Doesn't appear they have tested them on any kind of steep sustained DH trail.
> Kettles rotors were far from perfect, but at least none of their rotors shredded in two rides like these Alpha's. I have a couple of Kettle and SIC rotors that did not warp. I have 3 seasons on the Kettles and the braking surface is still like new.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

The alpha rotors are nor available anymore on their website, I guess all the noise about failures (some of them catastrophic) and the possibility of lawsuits in Spain had something to do with it.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

NWS said:


> Carbon weave seems fishy to me.


Exactly. Carbon rotors on cars are made with a different process, not the same thing. Just like a diamond is a different form of carbon, so are these, when compared to real carbon disc rotors (see wiki or tech sites for information on how they are made). Carbon fiber disc rotors≠carbon rotors.


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

TracksFromHell said:


> I looked at your photos. There is something definitely wrong with those rotors are they C/Sic or just CF?
> 
> BTW - I tested the Kettle ones, they didn't stop very well, but they stood up to some of the steepest nastiest riding and breaking.
> 
> I would hesitate to use anything for MTBR that can fracture in a crash though, can you imagine being stranded with a long outback downhill ahead just to save a few grams?


I have both the Kettle Cycles rotors and the Alphas and the Kettle Cycles are definitely thicker and stronger . AS you have experienced with the KC rotors they don't stop very well . I have a 180 on my trail bike and I am hard on the levers to slow the bike down .

I had good communication with Eduardo (owner of Alpha) and he assured me the rotors were ceramic coated . When you look at them they don't look like it . The testing I had done was in my local park and it was on the trail bike . The rotors haven't broken yet but I was doing light trails . Honestly I think they marketed them wrong, They should have been advertised purely for the road market .

Anyways since then I put my Scrub Raceday rotors back on . 97 grams for 160mm and 140mm and they also look the bees knees .


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Exactly. Carbon rotors on cars are made with a different process, not the same thing. Just like a diamond is a different form of carbon, so are these, when compared to real carbon disc rotors (see wiki or tech sites for information on how they are made). Carbon fiber disc rotors≠carbon rotors.


Carbon rotors on motor vehicles are a composite . These unfortunately are not but I was assured with the 'ceramic coating' they would hold up .

Mine are now going to be used as coasters .


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

The Kettle Cycles rotors (as bad as they are) are not ceramic coated, they are the real C/Sic 100% throughout.

Ceramic Coated CF is a bad (almost ludicrous) idea.

What a bunch of bozos.

Plain steel rotors work great too!



karimian5 said:


> I have both the Kettle Cycles rotors and the Alphas and the Kettle Cycles are definitely thicker and stronger . AS you have experienced with the KC rotors they don't stop very well . I have a 180 on my trail bike and I am hard on the levers to slow the bike down .
> 
> I had good communication with Eduardo (owner of Alpha) and he assured me the rotors were ceramic coated . When you look at them they don't look like it . The testing I had done was in my local park and it was on the trail bike . The rotors haven't broken yet but I was doing light trails . Honestly I think they marketed them wrong, They should have been advertised purely for the road market .
> 
> Anyways since then I put my Scrub Raceday rotors back on . 97 grams for 160mm and 140mm and they also look the bees knees .


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

TracksFromHell said:


> The Kettle Cycles rotors (as bad as they are) are not ceramic coated, they are the real C/Sic 100% throughout.
> 
> Ceramic Coated CF is a bad (almost ludicrous) idea.
> 
> ...


Being a WW I opted for the lightest on the market and unfortunately my desires got the better of me . The lightest that actually do work and are very strong are the Scrubs and I have no idea why they shut down . Maybe the material they were using was hard to get or production was too expensive . I really hope they start up again .


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

doccoraje said:


> The alpha rotors are nor available anymore on their website, I guess all the noise about failures (some of them catastrophic) and the possibility of lawsuits in Spain had something to do with it.


They're still available but at a reduced price .


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

If kettle's customer service didn't suck, if they had a slightly thicker material that was more crack and crash resistant, pads that worked well and didn't wear out so fast, then they would have a great result.

It's not so much the weight that attracts to C/Sic as the ability to not lock-up at threshold.
Bt locking up is fun and ABS is for commuters not enthusiasts.

The Kettle rotor would have worked well if it was 1mm thicker, came with a matched caliper, was true and not warped from the factory.

It's a good concept if done right and gives people a choice of performance characteristics that might appeal to some.

Until then, there is always rim brakes 

The obstacles to overcome are too many and it would cost waaay too much to prototype a real C/Sic system that works like it should.

In 10 years those 3D printed Ti bikes will come with C/Sic rotors and matched pads/calipers.

Until then there is always rim brakes and BACON.
MMMMM Do I smell bacon!!!



karimian5 said:


> Being a WW I opted for the lightest on the market and unfortunately my desires got the better of me . The lightest that actually do work and are very strong are the Scrubs and I have no idea why they shut down . Maybe the material they were using was hard to get or production was too expensive . I really hope they start up again .


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

TracksFromHell said:


> If kettle's customer service didn't suck, if they had a slightly thicker material that was more crack and crash resistant, pads that worked well and didn't wear out so fast, then they would have a great result.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Indeed, except for those 4, 5, 6, or 7 things (depending on how you count them), Kettle had a good thing going.  In all seriousness, I think you have a fair point in that their core idea, however poorly implemented, seemed sound - at least compared to Alpha.

BTW, please remember that this is a deadly serious topic, and we must not joke, nor talk about bacon.


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

phlegm said:


> Indeed, except for those 4, 5, 6, or 7 things (depending on how you count them), Kettle had a good thing going.  In all seriousness, I think you have a fair point in that their core idea, however poorly implemented, seemed sound - at least compared to Alpha.
> 
> BTW, please remember that this is a deadly serious topic, and we must not joke, nor talk about bacon.


It's a shame but I don't think carbon rotors will be making a comeback in the MTB scene. The problem is that carbon ceramics work best with carbon ceramic pads and this is indeed what they have in Moto GP and F1 . They need to be well heated in order to get the best result and you just don't get that kind of heat in cycling . The other issue is that with MTBs you are off road and so you are more likely to chip the rotor or even crack it . Moto GP and F1 you are on a smooth track (and F1 the rotors are protected by the wheels) . I know lots of companies have made their own versions but they have showcased them as prototypes only . I really hope manufacturers will continue to research and develop a a more robust and light carbon rotor that will work with MTBs . Until then we just have to stick with heavy steel and enjoy the lovely salted fried pork products .


----------



## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

karimian5 said:


> The problem is that carbon ceramics work best with carbon ceramic pads and this is indeed what they have in Moto GP and F1.


Is there reason to believe that the heat requirement stems from something inherent in carbon ceramic? I'd expect motorsport to use products tailored to perform best when hot, but that doesn't necessarily mean that carbon ceramic itself is _only_ suitable for high temperatures. It certainly means that motorsport formulations only work well at high heat, but that might be all that it means.

That said, the R&D required to develop a low-temperature version might still cost more than the bike market can bear.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

I can imagine a rotor, say max 120 mm diameter, almost twice as thick as standard, with a specialized caliper and pads. The rotor small size would minimize crash damage potential and the caliper would maximize breaking force even on a small rotor. A smaller diameter rotor would have less warp and deflection when out-of-true and offset the thicker design still with weight savings. The potential is there only if we throw out the old idea that a large spinning disc is what is needed to stop a bike. 

Sent from a stolen burner phone in a dark secluded location.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't succumb.

Oh, and @ karimian5 - these would be useless for the road as well, as they would get some hard braking as well (that's where I was intending to use them).

Staying with steel. Again....


----------



## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)




----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm waiting to see what ends up becoming of the Zelvy rotors that were mentioned a few posts back.

Seems these MAY be another alternative to those wanting to try something different. The fact they come with pads is a 1st point !!!


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Any more updates ?

I love a good disaster story, especiallly when I'm an observer !! (Almost succumbed though ....)


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

MichaelB said:


> Any more updates ?
> 
> I love a good disaster story, especiallly when I'm an observer !! (Almost succumbed though ....)


I'm testing mine at the moment with cork pads . Using cork sounds crazy but I build parts so I test anything . So far the discs haven't delaminated but a shiny film has developed on the surface . Braking performance could be more but it is still far stronger than rim brakes .


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Seb K said:


> I'm testing mine at the moment with cork pads . Using cork sounds crazy but I build parts so I test anything . So far the discs haven't delaminated but a shiny film has developed on the surface . Braking performance could be more but it is still far stronger than rim brakes .


Which rotors and which 'cork pads' are you using ?

I note that the Alpha "rotors" (or are they just sheets of CF that look pretty.... ) are on sale at the moment at almost 1/2 price and they are now also selling CF frames and forks that look like they are sourced directly from open mould suppliers from the far East.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

Finally found brake pads that make the Kettle rotors the best rear discs I have ever used.
Anybody having 2 180mm rotors that are flat (FLAT) for sale at a disgustingly low price I am interested.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

las-palmas said:


> Finally found brake pads that make the Kettle rotors the best rear discs I have ever used.
> Anybody having 2 180mm rotors that are flat (FLAT) for sale at a disgustingly low price I am interested.


LOL I have 2 sets of XTR Kettle pads (the good ones that work) and 2 180mm rotors that are not flat. not even close or they would be on my XC bike. 
Agreed best rear rotor I ever used too.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

las-palmas said:


> Finally found brake pads that make the Kettle rotors the best rear discs I have ever used.
> .....


And they are ?


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

MichaelB said:


> And they are ?


Metallic sintered pads from http://www.truckerco.com/


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Whilst I missed the carbon brake trials and tribulations of the various incarnations of Kettle rotors, and wisely missed the Alpa rotors boat (phew), I'm still interested in seeing them work and using them.

So given the comments that they are workable for the rear, does that then by extension mean they are still crap for the front ?


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

MichaelB said:


> Whilst I missed the carbon brake trials and tribulations of the various incarnations of Kettle rotors, and wisely missed the Alpa rotors boat (phew), I'm still interested in seeing them work and using them.
> 
> So given the comments that they are workable for the rear, does that then by extension mean they are still crap for the front ?


If you ride in mountains I would say yes.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

las-palmas said:


> Finally found brake pads that make the Kettle rotors the best rear discs I have ever used.
> Anybody having 2 180mm rotors that are flat (FLAT) for sale at a disgustingly low price I am interested.


I thought that they all came pre-warped? No such thing as a flat Kettle rotor!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

They worked great on the front with the sicc pads. On the rear shimano resin pads give the perfect bit. Not enough power for the front without the sicc pads. I really liked mine, but they warped and I reluctantly took them off. They have continued to warp sitting in the box. I tried to flatten them with no luck.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Stop posting in this thread. It only brings back the pain.


----------



## ctguru (Dec 31, 2008)

phlegm said:


> Stop posting in this thread. It only brings back the pain.


Lol..........

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

phlegm said:


> Stop posting in this thread. It only brings back the pain.


I see you are into the Blue Whale game... Let me tell you beforehand , it will not end well...


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

phlegm said:


> Stop posting in this thread. It only brings back the pain.


do you not think it is better to tell the good people who bought the rotors that they can be used for other things than hanging on the wall?


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

las-palmas said:


> do you not think it is better to tell the good people who bought the rotors that they can be used for other things than hanging on the wall?


Of course - I'm pleased that one customer found a use for them. I would sell you mine, but they aren't flat.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

phlegm said:


> Of course - I'm pleased that one customer found a use for them. I would sell you mine, but they aren't flat.


maybe I am not the only one who find the rotors great for rear wheels:
alexbn921 - see a few posts above
seems to mean the same, so maybe there are more of us.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

las-palmas said:


> maybe I am not the only one who find the rotors great for rear wheels:
> alexbn921 - see a few posts above
> seems to mean the same, so maybe there are more of us.


If you are getting some use from these, excellent. Rear-wheel-only is quite a limitation though, and somewhat telling of their performance.

I'm unsure why you are so very defensive of Kettle, and so against the odd joke in this thread. Many of us paid a lot of money for their middling performance (or worse), and their terrible customer support. As such, we have the right to joke about them if we wish.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

So, it seems that they have ditched the carbon substrate (for reasons not provided).

SiC Rotors are back, but the SiC is now applied to a Ti rotor (grades and details not listed) with only the weight and thickness shown.

Some of you may remember the Kettle Carbon/SiCCC disc rotors that appeared some time ago, and despite some improvements, never quite got it right. They disappeared, Phoenixed again, only to re-disappear. Then a Spanish mob has had a go, Alpha, but the results and feedback has been somewhat odd.

I've always been interested from an engineering point of view, but never quite ready to part with the cash, especially when there is limited info.

Phoenix time again.

They are now back, but instead of the carbon substrate with SiC (Silicon Carbide) impregnated, they have gone with a Ti disc with a SiC coating.

Bugger all details, of the base material spes, and no details of what pads are to be used or anything else. :?

Also only in 6 bolt, but now using Ti as the base, should be able to be made in Centerlock (which would be nice)










Have fired off an enquiry re the suggested pad material compatibility, but waiting to hear back, although not optimistic.

Retail is Euro 75 ea and available in 140, 160, 180 and 203mm.

Tempted, but not enough yet. There was a discount code to take Euro15 off each rotor for a limited time, but still ends up being A$200 for a 160/140 pair. :thinking:

A bit of google fooing shows that Ti-SiC us more commonly used in compressor blades and other advanced structures, although not sure what that really means.

The quoted temp resistance (1,650 degrees Celcius) is a furphy, as no pad material operates in that range, but curious whether what grade the Ti base is, and how resistant to warping ?
Eventual reply from them (took 3 goes) indicate that the best pads are Swisstop Exotherm (which have been recalled) !!!

Oh dear ...

Who is willing to gamble ....


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Carver has had Ti rotors for several years, and continue to sell them. I have a pair myself, however I could never get them to stop squealing, despite several pad experiments. Too bad as the stopping power was fine, weight was great. Price is $100:
http://carverbikes.com/parts/brakes/titanium-disc-rotors/

As for the new, new, Ti-SiC, if the coating somehow mitigates the Ti howl, then they could have a winner. However, as with any coating, it may have a life expectancy.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Nope. So many things wrong with these rotors. Sic material needs sic pads. The expansion rate of the 2 materials will destroy the coating.
A fool and his money.


----------



## Daas (Sep 5, 2017)

I have seen that they have published about a brand new rotor of carbon and steel the guys of Sic!

https://sicrotors.com/product/sic-hybrid-rotor-160mm/


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

And despite them saying that it requires Swissstop pads, the fact they state that it works with all pads has fully set my alarm to red alert.

An update from the guys at Zelvy (info further up in thread) have them still coming at Xmas, but the big difference is they supply pads with the rotors.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

A fool and their money is easily parted


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

TracksFromHell said:


> A fool and their money is easily parted


Not a fool.

Yet


----------



## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

MichaelB said:


> Some of you may remember the Kettle Carbon/SiCCC disc rotors that appeared some time ago, and despite some improvements, never quite got it right. They disappeared, Phoenixed again, only to re-disappear.


Bwahahahahahaha!

Are people still talking about this?

Five years ago when the thread was started, I expressed my skepticism about the wannabeapro at Kettle Cycles. I also leaked the real facts - the guy behind it was operating out of his apartment in Indiana, how he had no product, and how all the endorsements on his web page were from non-existent bike stores and teams. For revealing the truth, I was virtually pilloried as a heretic by a group of MTBR fanboys. Those guys seem to have faded into oblivion. Or maybe they're out shredding the trails on there Kettle Rotors.

I don't know anything about these guys from SIC. I tried to look them up, but couldn't find a physical location or a phone number. Nor could I find the existence of their parent company, "Harder Industries." All that aside, I only ask, "WHY?" Shimano, Hope, Sram, Magura... they all offer off-the-shelf braking solutions that are wonderful. Why bother with a product that doesn't seem to exist at any location other than a single web site?


----------



## Daas (Sep 5, 2017)

*We'll see what happens!*



RustyIron said:


> Bwahahahahahaha!
> 
> Are people still talking about this?
> 
> ...


Maybe if you read who they are ... you'll see that it's not the same people who started this.

I want to see what they are going to do ... because it is clear that if they make a product that interests me I will buy it.


----------



## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

Daas said:


> Maybe if you read who they are ... you'll see that it's not the same people who started this.


Well it certainly would be cool if they create some bar-raising brake components. Be sure to let us know how the SIC rotors perform for you.


----------



## Daas (Sep 5, 2017)

Do not hesitate! as soon as I do with a hybrid carbon steel and carbon discs similar to Carbon Ti components (Italy), i will comment.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Having used the Sicc rotors, I wish that a major manufacturer would invest in the technology. They where very very good paired with the sicc pads. Far and above the best rear rotor I have or will ever use. They got over there heads fast and didn't have the resources or manufacturing.


----------



## Daas (Sep 5, 2017)

Totally agree, it's about companies getting involved and listening to the riders.Cheers!


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

RustyIron said:


> Bwahahahahahaha!
> 
> Are people still talking about this?
> 
> ...


Well, I like new things, as long as they make sense and work, hence been following this technology, but not yet parted with any cash.

Whilst they respond to emails, they are next to useless re info and actual conversation which is a red flag to me.

And w.r.t. established players, at some point ya gotta start somewhere.

It wasn't that long ago that carbon rotors weren't on F1 cars, but now they are on road cars and readily available after-market.

Their time (Carbon and/or SiC) will come, but it needs the right backing and company.

And the ability to communicate and have a decent site., The SiC site is utter crap.

Standing by to standby :skep:


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

alexbn921 said:


> Having used the Sicc rotors, I wish that a major manufacturer would invest in the technology. They where very very good paired with the sicc pads. Far and above the best rear rotor I have or will ever use. They got over there heads fast and didn't have the resources or manufacturing.


I have no idea what above best rear rotor mean, for me the rotors are no good on front wheel.
Wrote to the new company they answered that they are making steel rotors with carbon centre, so nothing new or interesting. No such thing as the Brembo rotors Carbon-ceramic discs | Brembo - Official Website (interested search the Porsche community there you can find a lot of info about brake systems) so what SIC is doing is trying is to make money of "nothing new"


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

They where total crap on the front without the Sicc pads. They had no power. With the Sicc pads they had equal or better power. On the rear they where the best because they keep a linear friction level from locked up to rotating. No steel rotor does that. You had an unmatched ability to threshold brake and keep the rear wheel from locking.


----------



## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

alexbn921 said:


> They where total crap on the front without the Sicc pads. They had no power. With the Sicc pads they had equal or better power. On the rear they where the best because they keep a linear friction level from locked up to rotating. No steel rotor does that. You had an unmatched ability to threshold brake and keep the rear wheel from locking.


Absolutely right. I also found out that more than 3 years ago. Have Kettle rotors on rear wheel on 2 bikes. Seem to last forever with little or no wear on the pads.


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

alexbn921 said:


> They where total crap on the front without the Sicc pads. They had no power. With the Sicc pads they had equal or better power. On the rear they where the best because they keep a linear friction level from locked up to rotating. No steel rotor does that. You had an unmatched ability to threshold brake and keep the rear wheel from locking.


> With the Sicc pads they had equal or better power.

Well here now. that's not what I found. They were weak sauce in all the iterations I tried. That's not to say they can't be made to work.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

bacon?


----------



## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

phlegm said:


> bacon?


mmmm bacon


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

TracksFromHell said:


> mmmm bacon


Yes please


----------



## Daas (Sep 5, 2017)

*Tests*

Well!!I've been driving these rotors for more than a month and they are doing well to date.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Manufacture? What pads are you using?


----------



## Daas (Sep 5, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> Manufacture? What pads are you using?


SIC rotor.

Organic pads, I have also been able to draw braking power.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

https://sicrotors.com/
I guess some sucker gave them money to make more of these crappy useless rotors. Be afraid, be very afraid.
They are not offering pads too, so they will be completely useless for any real bike. That is until they warp and can't be trued.


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

alexbn921 said:


> https://sicrotors.com/
> I guess some sucker gave them money to make more of these crappy useless rotors. Be afraid, be very afraid.
> They are not offering pads too, so they will be completely useless for any real bike. That is until they warp and can't be trued.


After my email discussions with them and finally (after about asking 5 times) what pads, they recommended Swisstop exotherm (which are recalled) .

If they gave me a set to review, I'd be wary as well, and that's without paying !!!


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Daas said:


> Well!!I've been driving these rotors for more than a month and they are doing well to date.


Those are literal paper weights!


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I hate to even bring this product up in THIS thread but I just wanted to point out that my 180mm Carbon Ti rotors kick ass. Straight up enduro style riding, incredible power, 1 fingered stoppies, no drag, no warpage, not overheating (but downhills here only last a few minutes).

I'm pleased.


----------



## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

You are justified in hating bring that up here. Those are Carbon-Ti brand steel rotors with a carbon spider and Ti rivets, so not carbon (or Ti) rotors at all.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Lone Rager said:


> You are justified in hating bring that up here. Those are Carbon-Ti brand steel rotors with a carbon spider and Ti rivets, so not carbon (or Ti) rotors at all.


And 4 pot calipers.


----------



## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

RustyIron said:


> Bwahahahahahaha!
> 
> Are people still talking about this?
> 
> ...


Interesting that Sic has only one review on its FB page.... Five starts from "Ed Harder". I'm sure Ed Harder has nothing to do with Harder Industries....


----------



## Zelvy (Nov 23, 2017)

MichaelB said:


> I'm waiting to see what ends up becoming of the Zelvy rotors that were mentioned a few posts back.
> 
> Seems these MAY be another alternative to those wanting to try something different. The fact they come with pads is a 1st point !!!











I will just leave this here...


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Looks great. Curious to hear more about them. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


----------



## thanongsak (Jan 4, 2018)

*Alpha motocicletas for bike*

Alpha motocicletas for bike


----------



## MichaelB (Oct 14, 2010)

Zelvy said:


> View attachment 1172256
> 
> 
> I will just leave this here...


Standing by to standby.

[crickets]

Been waiting a while (and it looks like they have changed a bit), but still get no info or details or whatever, so the pic is nice, but .....


----------

