# Older woodsy, technical, trials bikes



## Mother Goose (Jan 19, 2005)

I would like to see some bikes that were built for the technical trail rider. Bikes that are low slung with sub 16 inch chainstays, 72 degree head angles, high bottom brackets...EWR, Grove, 24/26 Ibis or Fat Chance, Nevil or any older trials specific bikes. Here are several pictures of mine, not all period correct, but functional. An EWR E-Motion, Ibis Mt Trials, and myself in competition on an Ibis Trials Comp.


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## Mother Goose (Jan 19, 2005)

*Mammoth trials comp pictures*

In addition, I have some pictures from a Mammoth Mtn trials comp in 1993. Andy Grayson on an Ibis Trials Comp with a wide rear triangle to accept a Monty fat tire. Aaron Faust on a Klein Agile. Let me know if you own one of these, I believe there were two made. And of course, Hans Rey.


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## moonter (Oct 14, 2004)

Mother Goose said:


> I would like to see some bikes that were built for the technical trail rider. Bikes that are low slung with sub 16 inch chainstays, 72 degree head angles, high bottom brackets...EWR, Grove, 24/26 Ibis or Fat Chance, Nevil or any older trials specific bikes. Here are several pictures of mine, not all period correct, but functional. An EWR E-Motion, Ibis Mt Trials, and myself in competition on an Ibis Trials Comp.


That EWR looks really nice. Have you got any other pictures of it?


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

Anymore pics of the klein agile? thats cool to learn of a new model.

Since there was only two, i assume i wont ever see one in person.

That is wild how far away the handlebars are from that tire. i would love to see him jump on top of that log in person, that is awesome.


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## Mother Goose (Jan 19, 2005)

*Ewr*

Here are some other pictures of it set up differently. The 4" travel fork raised the bottom bracket to a crazy 13.5". I have been riding it recently with the rigid fork and a 3" travel fork which keeps the geometry a bit more manageable.


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## Mother Goose (Jan 19, 2005)

*Klein Agile*

Sorry, that is the only picture I believe I have of a Klein Agile. Aaron Faust was part of the San Francisco Bay Area trials scene in the early '90s. A friend of his, whose name I can't remember, rode for Klein also and had the same bike. Those are the only two I know of or ever saw. A few cool details I remember about the bike are that it had some sort of carbon/ boron wrapped chainstays and the brakes were custom made. These bikes were just before V-brakes were readily available, as can be seen with the lack of V-brakes on Hans Rey's bike, and the Klein Agiles had some custom machined long arm cantilevers with a thick reinforcing plate.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

Mother Goose said:


> Sorry, that is the only picture I believe I have of a Klein Agile. Aaron Faust was part of the San Francisco Bay Area trials scene in the early '90s. A friend of his, whose name I can't remember, rode for Klein also and had the same bike. Those are the only two I know of or ever saw. A few cool details I remember about the bike are that it had some sort of carbon/ boron wrapped chainstays and the brakes were custom made. These bikes were just before V-brakes were readily available, as can be seen with the lack of V-brakes on Hans Rey's bike, and the Klein Agiles had some custom machined long arm cantilevers with a thick reinforcing plate.


Darrell "Big Bunny" Voss rode for Klein back in the eighties and nineties but I think he lived in Texas. There was another trials hot shot around that time, Jim Tregonis who split his time between New York and Frisco. Jim rode a very rare Cunningham trials bike.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Mother Goose said:


> Sorry, that is the only picture I believe I have of a Klein Agile. Aaron Faust was part of the San Francisco Bay Area trials scene in the early '90s. A friend of his, whose name I can't remember, rode for Klein also and had the same bike. Those are the only two I know of or ever saw. A few cool details I remember about the bike are that it had some sort of carbon/ boron wrapped chainstays and the brakes were custom made. These bikes were just before V-brakes were readily available, as can be seen with the lack of V-brakes on Hans Rey's bike, and the Klein Agiles had some custom machined long arm cantilevers with a thick reinforcing plate.


Are you an ex CalPoly or NorNal local?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Darrell lived in Washington and Oregon. I saw him at races all the time in the late '80s. Talked with him at Interbike in '04.


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

*WOW Mother Goose...*



Mother Goose said:


> I would like to see some bikes that were built for the technical trail rider. Bikes that are low slung with sub 16 inch chainstays, 72 degree head angles, high bottom brackets...EWR, Grove, 24/26 Ibis or Fat Chance, Nevil or any older trials specific bikes. Here are several pictures of mine, not all period correct, but functional. An EWR E-Motion, Ibis Mt Trials, and myself in competition on an Ibis Trials Comp.


your EWR looks exactly like mine. Is it a B2 Race? Was it painted by Fresh Frame? They must have been from the same batch. The yellow one I just picked up last month ago. Jay said it was hand pulled from the assembly line and used in competition by Jay DeJesus and Chris Da Vine.



















​


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Last I heard, Darrel Voss worked at SR/Suntour's offices in Vancouver, WA...but that was about 4 years ago...


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

shiggy said:


> Darrell lived in Washington and Oregon. I saw him at races all the time in the late '80s. Talked with him at Interbike in '04.


That would make sense considering Klein was based in Washington. Where the hell did I get Texas from?   Another reason not to drink and type...


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

This Grove prototype Woods bike really pushes the boundaries with a true 16" bottom bracket and 15.25" chain stays. To accomodate all of this, the bike has 80mm bottom bracket shell width and 160mm rear spacing. One of 3 made and the only one sold to a consumer.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

First Flight said:


> This Grove prototype Woods bike really pushes the boundaries with a true 16" bottom bracket and 15.25" chain stays. To accomodate all of this, the bike has 80mm bottom bracket shell width and 160mm rear spacing. One of 3 made and the only one sold to a consumer.


The waiting list for those died with my name on it


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

*Interested in EWR lore...*



J Ro said:


> your EWR looks exactly like mine. Is it a B2 Race? Was it painted by Fresh Frame? They must have been from the same batch.


I too have a soft spot for the EWR bikes. They were popping up around when I left The Old Country (NY) and headed for gold in these western hills, which was early 90's. When did EWR go the way of the Dodo? Or do they live on? I know nothing of the builder(s) and their story...


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## -Anomie- (Jan 16, 2005)

Man, I wanted an Eastern Woods bike SO bad back in the day, but couldn't afford one until it was too late. I saw the DeJesus frame on Ebay a few weeks ago, but it was too small for me. Guess I'll just have to keep looking.

On a side note, I always found my Bontrager Race Light to be an excellent woods bike. The steeper angles and fairly high BB made it handle tight and technical stuff easily, and it's a blast to slalom through the trees on.


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## geoffss (Mar 23, 2004)

*Yo!*



Rumpfy said:


> Are you an ex CalPoly or NorNal local?


Mother Goose is me and damy-yen's homie, K-dawg! From SLO, Nor-Nal, and Fremont Older. He poured liquid nitrogen on my foot once.

Nor-Nal rules!


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

benja55 said:


> I too have a soft spot for the EWR bikes. They were popping up around when I left The Old Country (NY) and headed for gold in these western hills, which was early 90's. When did EWR go the way of the Dodo? Or do they live on? I know nothing of the builder(s) and their story...


If my memory serves me well (it usually doesn't) Jay called it quits around 1996 or 1997. There were a couple of guys at a shop in Catonsville, MD (Jason Schwin...and a guy who went by the name of Scooby) who were friends with Jay and were riding EWR steel mod bikes at the time I bought my first mod (a Crestone Peak.) I recall the feeling of disappointment upon calling EWR, getting Jay on the phone and hearing him tell me that there weren't going to be any more of those fancy aluminum mod bikes. It was then that I switched to the stock class and stuck with it (for the most part) for the last 9 years.

I ran into Jay a number of times as competitions in PA and come across Jason Sch...a few times in Baltimore as recently as last year. I think Jay is still living in PA and who the hell knows where Scooby is. Last I heard he was guiding for Elk River Touring Ctr. in Slatyfork.


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## Mother Goose (Jan 19, 2005)

*more comments*

Hi Rumpfy...yes I am a Cal Poly alum and sort of ex-bay area local. I'm out in western Mass right now putting the trials skills to good use on the amazing trails out here. Make sure to ask Geoffss what he thinks of wet bridges and rocks in New England.

wtb-rider...I don't remember a Darrell Voss, but I do remember meeting Jim Trigonis several times. He also had a One-Off Titanium trials bike for some time. That was cool! Anyone have pictures of that?

First Flight...thanks for the pictures of the Grove, that is the type of bike I want to see more of in this post. From my own experiences I kind of wonder what a bike with a 16" bb without 8" of suspension would ride like at more than 15mph.

J Ro...I dig your EWR collection. My E-Motion is not a B2-Race. The downtube on mine is significantly larger in diameter, so according to the catalog I have I would guess mine uses straight gauge 4130 and yours uses a butted True Temper tubeset. It's good to know that Woods bike went to good hands. I wanted to buy it when it was on ebay several months ago, but the cash flow was not there. If you ever get tired of it, let me know.

That's all for now.


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

*Oh SNAP! Jim Trigonis was the MAN!*



Mother Goose said:


> I do remember meeting Jim Trigonis several times. He also had a One-Off Titanium trials bike for some time. That was cool! Anyone have pictures of that?


Jim Trigonis was a god to this young rider in the mid-late 80's! I remember him just killing it up at Mt.Snow on his Cunningham trials bike, especially on the sick, natural woods courses that Mike "OneOff" Augspurger used to set. Jim's style was SOOO smooth.

While I am waltzing down memory lane...I had an early Merlin (low 300's serial #,) and the third production bike with seatstay mounted roller/u-brake bosses, which I later sold to a buddy and bought a totally custom OneOff from mike.... I got 8+ years out of it before I traded it for a burrito in the Mission (in SF.) That OneOff still haunts me in my dreams.

Damn, I miss those East Coast tech bikes... Shite, I'm gonna get all nostalgic now.


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*EWR/Grove Was Exactly What I Was Thinking...*

There was a pretty long thread with multiple EWR photos on it, running a little while ago. I have a Woods Bike from the last run of frames in '97. I've seen Punk's E-Motion. Actually, a riding buddy of mine bought it from him, to be built up for spring. I love mine for the riding that I do out here in PA. Not looking for another bike until I either break it, or can't get a fork for it to keep it true to it's orig. geo. (My Marz Bomber Z-2 from '97, white, leftover bought in '98...coil...SO buttery smooth!...has been rebuilt hmmm...about 5 times. Last time, by Marzocchi, and is still fine as I write this.)

Anyway, it has the most photos of EWR's on one thread that I know of...enjoy!

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=21597&highlight=Eastern+Woods+Research


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*Even a post by Jay DeJesus on that thread: Serial #'s*

How to read your EWR's Serial #.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

benja55 said:


> Jim Trigonis was a god to this young rider in the mid-late 80's! I remember him just killing it up at Mt.Snow on his Cunningham trials bike, especially on the sick, natural woods courses that Mike "OneOff" Augspurger used to set. Jim's style was SOOO smooth.
> 
> While I am waltzing down memory lane...I had an early Merlin (low 300's serial #,) and the third production bike with seatstay mounted roller/u-brake bosses, which I later sold to a buddy and bought a totally custom OneOff from mike.... I got 8+ years out of it before I traded it for a burrito in the Mission (in SF.) That OneOff still haunts me in my dreams.
> 
> Damn, I miss those East Coast tech bikes... Shite, I'm gonna get all nostalgic now.


I had the opportunity to meet Jim and watch him ride his Cunningham on the crazy boulders in Central Park(don't tell the ride police on the NY forum  on many occasions in the late eighties and early nineties. The guy was amazing 

Too bad about your OneOff, they were extremely rare, even for those days. Even worse for whatever drove you to give it up.


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

*They were rare indeed...*



WTB-rider said:


> Too bad about your OneOff, they were extremely rare, even for those days. Even worse for whatever drove you to give it up.


Oh don't worry, it wasn't a drug induced bike-burrito trade or some such.  I locked it up tight outside of the burrito joint and the homeboys outside had it in under two minutes. I mean, they were literally not even half way through making my burrito before I decided to run out and check on it just on a weird feeling.... And it was gone.

It was locked. And I'm from NYC, I know how to lock my bike. 

But they got it. Easy come easy go. You can't hold onto the material world.

I like to think I gave it back to the universe. But if I ever see it rolling around town... Yeah, lets just say the universe will give it back..


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

benja55 said:


> Oh don't worry, it wasn't a drug induced bike-burrito trade or some such.  I locked it up tight outside of the burrito joint and the homeboys outside had it in under two minutes. I mean, they were literally not even half way through making my burrito before I decided to run out and check on it just on a weird feeling.... And it was gone.
> 
> It was locked. And I'm from NYC, I know how to lock my bike.
> 
> ...


I reworded my post about a dozen times trying to be as delicate as possible because I was *SURE* you gave that bike up in some kind of "drug induced bike-burrito trade", especially since you were in the Mission District  If it had to go, better it was stolen than what I originally thought.

I'm from NYC too and I know exactly what you mean when you say "the universe will give it back..."


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

WTB-rider said:


> I'm from NYC too and I know exactly what you mean when you say "the universe will give it back..."


Word. That bike went years ago, and as much as my brain knows its likely in Kansas by now I still peep out every bike I see in SF. Every one.

It was a smaller frame with those big black Inversion forks. Its out there. Somewhere.

I ended up hooking up an Ibis TiMojo as a replacement, mostly because I was a framebuilder there for a while and got a solid Friends&Family deal on the frame. I love my Mojo but its not the same kind of ride as the OneOff. I like to think of the OneOff ride as like a Fat City taken to the next level. Just f*cking psychic handling. So ill.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Here's a link to my old 26-24 woods bike. Not a nationally-known brand or anything, but pretty slick, anyhow.
http://www.geocities.com/pinchflatdotcom/gear.html
Right now I am riding a Tom Teesdale with 16" stays and a high bottom bracket. May post pics at some point.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

benja55 said:


> Word. That bike went years ago, and as much as my brain knows its likely in Kansas by now I still peep out every bike I see in SF. Every one.
> 
> It was a smaller frame with those big black Inversion forks. Its out there. Somewhere.
> 
> I ended up hooking up an Ibis TiMojo as a replacement, mostly because I was a framebuilder there for a while and got a solid Friends&Family deal on the frame. I love my Mojo but its not the same kind of ride as the OneOff. I like to think of the OneOff ride as like a Fat City taken to the next level. Just f*cking psychic handling. So ill.


True. The whole Fat City/Merlin/OneOff connection was a beautiful thing in it's day. I guess all good things must end at some point.


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

Anyone know what the "ideal" fork geometry was for the EWR Original Woods bikes? I have a bunch of rigid forks laying around, but I'd like to put something on that's as close as possible to how Jay designed it just to see what it _should _feel like.

Here's a pic as I wandered around in the snow yesterday. This bike hardly sees any more miles (since starting on 29ers), but I have a Nokian Gazzi 2.6, and nothing in the 29er world even comes close. This time I mounted a Waltworks fork, which is 430mm axle to crown, with 50mm rake. Didn't handle too badly.

​
I have a Karate Monkey fork which is really tall, but I don't know if the handling will go to pot. I'll also try it with my 29er tire in front. Yeah, I like experimenting


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*If you don't have an EWR catalog....Forks...*

Drevil,
Drop me an email. I'm terrible at the computer thing. Me getting photos up onto these boards has never seemed to work. BUT, it would be easy for me to scan in the photos of the E-Motion and Woods Bike so that you can see the Manitou forks that they were pictured with. Then, looking at the forks, you may be able to tell what mm of travel that they had to keep the orig. geo. of 72 degr. head and 73.5 seat and a BB of 12.5". I'm guessing that they were 63mm or so. My old Z-2 Bomber is 70mm and once settled into it's travel once my fat @ss is on it, probably comes pretty close to the orig. Some may call it "twitchy", but I call it a dream for the trails and trail speeds that I ride up here in PA.

Again, drop me an email so that I have your address (I know that we've spoken before at one point or another.) and I'll get the photos to you.


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## erkan (Jan 18, 2004)

Is Hans Ray a Red Bull rampage-like freerider nowdays or is he still competing in trials on his trusty Zaskar with Quadra fork?


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

I think Jay originally spec'd the Woods Bike with a standard height Kinesis Aluminum fork for trials, but for trail riding, I remember seeing a Manitou EFC on there.

Hope that helps.

rb



Drevil said:


> Anyone know what the "ideal" fork geometry was for the EWR Original Woods bikes? I have a bunch of rigid forks laying around, but I'd like to put something on that's as close as possible to how Jay designed it just to see what it _should _feel like.
> 
> Here's a pic as I wandered around in the snow yesterday. This bike hardly sees any more miles (since starting on 29ers), but I have a Nokian Gazzi 2.6, and nothing in the 29er world even comes close. This time I mounted a Waltworks fork, which is 430mm axle to crown, with 50mm rake. Didn't handle too badly.
> 
> ...


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

If so I think an EFC is around 415mm axle to crown... but I could be wrong.


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

Doh! <Hand slapping forehead.> I forgot I had a catalog here at work. I did the ghetto scan, aka took a pic, of the specs if anyone ever needs it. Click on the pic to get to a bigger size.



This morning I swapped the front wheel for the one off my 29er. Very resistant to direction changes from the bar...


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## rutteger (May 6, 2005)

*Agile*

Here's another picture of an Agile (well I guess it's an agile going on the pic above)










Taken at Mammoth in '92.


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

*Older woodsy, technical, trials bikes with a NYC Connection*



WTB-rider said:


> I reworded my post about a dozen times trying to be as delicate as possible because I was *SURE* you gave that bike up in some kind of "drug induced bike-burrito trade", especially since you were in the Mission District  If it had to go, better it was stolen than what I originally thought.
> 
> I'm from NYC too and I know exactly what you mean when you say "the universe will give it back..."


Hey WTB-rider & Benja55,

When were you guys riding trials in NYC? 
Did you used hang with that mid 1980's to early 1990's MTB scene in Central Park that would typically start off at the Boat House and ride the rocks and trails in the ramble trials stylee? 
I started riding (serious riding that is) back in 1984, which was before they renovated the park and you could still actually ride off road in Central Park without getting in trouble...Back then there were quite few people doing trials over benches, picnic tables and rocks on some older Fat Chances, Ibis and Ritchey mountain bikes and then in like 86-87 they moved on to the real Fat Chance and Ibis Trials bikes, I even recall a few Mountain Goat Trials bikes that were sold out of Bicycle Renaissance, where I worked in 1986...I was that never hardcore into trials, but I would watch in amazement and could hold my own on the rocks and boulders with a "regular" Fat Chance...There were some really interesting and gutsy riders back then...Not sure what happened to all of them as I was basically a teenager and those guys were all at least 30+ and probably thought I was a geek! 

Michael-NYC


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

How about a modern version? (blasphemy, i know, but......) I think of it as a modern EWR bike. The builder markets it as his slalom/urban/do it all bike. www.peytocycles.com










Wild Bill model hardtail. I've only ridden it in Colorado and Utah so far, but think it'll handle fabulously in the tight twisty stuff back east. Ms. Scrub and I will be moving back there in the near-ish future; I'll like this bike out east methinks.

69 degree HA with a Pike (518mm C-A) at full 140mm travel, steepens a bit with dropping the travel down 45mm. It'll easily take a shorter fork, or is also doable with up to 7" of travel for big days.










16.5" chain stays, with gobs of clearance. I've had as large as a 2.7" Intense DH tire there, with a bit more room to spare. Though getting larger than 2.5" stuff and I need to pay good attention to front mech setup to make sure it's not rubbing in the granny.

12.3" bb height. Gobs of standover, yet able to take a nice long seatpost at full extension for climbing. 5# on the nose for the frame only. The Gravity Dropper post is a new thing on it, and it's working out pretty dang well, too.










I've had it for a while now, not custom, but it was *exactly* what I wanted in my do it all hardtail. Long high contry epics, lift assist days at Keystone, tight twisty rock crawling, a little bit of urban, dirt jumps (or my pathetic attempts) and everything else. Frame was built as a demo, and I picked it up for about half the regular price. Reynolds 853 front, Coumbus something or other rear stuff according to the builder.

About 28# built up this way. Oh yeah, can I at least get retro points for using a Suntour XC Expert thumbie for the front shifter? Got one on both my mtbs!


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

*same number, same hood...*



Fatmikeynyc said:


> When were you guys riding trials in NYC?
> Did you used hang with that mid 1980's to early 1990's MTB scene in Central Park that would typically start off at the Boat House and ride the rocks and trails in the ramble trials stylee?


Yup, yup, yup! I started riding "off road" in NYC on my old Ross Mt. Hood (the chrome one with SunTour XC!) around '84-85. Got it at the Bicycles shop on 96th between Broadway and Amsterdam. Road the shitt out of it commuting to JHS across town from 110th & B'way over to east 97th @ 1st Ave. That went on for all of 7th & 8th grade. As I'd ride through the park I kept going off road more and more and kept on seeing these dudes doing *krazy shitt* on all the rocky stuff in the park. And yeah, it was that same kru. Folks like Carl Mabry and Vicious Cycles Carl (Shlemowitz?) from Brooklyn. I learned to love tech riding trying to follow the lines they were riding. I'd never really call myself a "trials rider" but I did get good enough to enter some stock trials competitions at local races now and again.

Bike Renaissance was one of my favorite shops for stopping in and geeking on parts. I'm sure I met you there. Who was the asian guy who owned the place? Tall guy... Can't remember his name.

Damn, now you got me missing the Olde Country again....


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

Fatmikeynyc said:


> Hey WTB-rider & Benja55,
> 
> When were you guys riding trials in NYC?
> Did you used hang with that mid 1980's to early 1990's MTB scene in Central Park that would typically start off at the Boat House and ride the rocks and trails in the ramble trials stylee?
> ...


Oh man, you're making me feel old and homesick Those were some wild days. Rollercams, Suntour friction shifters and XC Compe pedals and Specialized Ground controls were standard equipment.Bikes of choice were the aforementioned Ibis and Fat Chance but there was one Cunningham Racer that belonged to Dirty Tony who worked at Cycles Plus in Pt.Washington.

I got married and drifted away from the Park scene, often wonder where everyone ended up.


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

*Older woodsy, technical, trials bikes NYC Style*



benja55 said:


> Yup, yup, yup! I started riding "off road" in NYC on my old Ross Mt. Hood (the chrome one with SunTour XC!) around '84-85. Got it at the Bicycles shop on 96th between Broadway and Amsterdam. Road the shitt out of it commuting to JHS across town from 110th & B'way over to east 97th @ 1st Ave. That went on for all of 7th & 8th grade. As I'd ride through the park I kept going off road more and more and kept on seeing these dudes doing *krazy shitt* on all the rocky stuff in the park. And yeah, it was that same kru. Folks like Carl Mabry and Vicious Cycles Carl (Shlemowitz?) from Brooklyn. I learned to love tech riding trying to follow the lines they were riding. I'd never really call myself a "trials rider" but I did get good enough to enter some stock trials competitions at local races now and again.
> 
> Bike Renaissance was one of my favorite shops for stopping in and geeking on parts. I'm sure I met you there. Who was the asian guy who owned the place? Tall guy... Can't remember his name.
> 
> Damn, now you got me missing the Olde Country again....


benja55,

I just drove past your Jr. H.S. yesterday! Yes Carl Mabry was one of the most hard core MTB riders that I have met - ever! Total Trials rider destroyed everything he rode from Fat Chance to Ibis to Whatever crazy tricked out Trials thing he had...those were interesting days, as it was always ironic how there was such an intense MTB scene as well as a Trials scene in the heart of the big city...that same crew eventually included Doc and the other guys from Brooklyn Machine Works who took the trials bike to a new level with their "Park Bike" which I tried but didn't jive with so I sold it.

I still go to that "Bicycles" store on 96th for certain things as they are one of the few NYC LBS that have a cool vibe and are not snobs, they used to be a big Fat City dealer in the early 90's. I worked at the Bicycle Renaissance in 1986 that was on 84th and Columbus Avenue next to Lucy's the Surf themed/Mexican place and down the block from Jackson Hole Burgers, where Jennifer Aniston was a waitress. There were some great bikes that came out of that shop, mostly Fats and Ibis and a few of the last Nickel plated Breezers...What did you ride other then the Ross? I've always had at least one Black Fat Chance among many others since 1985, so most people know me from the Central Park days as Michael with the Black Fat Chance...

Michael-NYC


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

*Older woodsy, technical, trials bikes NYC Style*



WTB-rider said:


> Oh man, you're making me feel old and homesick Those were some wild days. Rollercams, Suntour friction shifters and XC Compe pedals and Specialized Ground controls were standard equipment.Bikes of choice were the aforementioned Ibis and Fat Chance but there was one Cunningham Racer that belonged to Dirty Tony who worked at Cycles Plus in Pt.Washington.
> 
> I got married and drifted away from the Park scene, often wonder where everyone ended up.


Hey WTB-rider,

What were you riding back in those days? As I just replied to Benja55 I've always had at least one Black Fat Chance among many others since 1985, so most people know me from the Central Park days as Michael with the Black Fat Chance, I typically remember people from the bikes that they rode and not their actual names!

I bought that first black Fat from a guy named Dave Van Der Veer, who was tight with Fat City from the start and had a custom Team Comp that he rode for about a year and then sold to me as a 17 year old and ironically it had Rollercams, Suntour friction shifters and XC Compe pedals, but I used Specialized Tri-Cross tires not Ground controls as they weren't out yet I crashed that bike trialsin on a rock near the Metropolitan Museum of Art and tweaked out the Box Crown fork and then sold it back to Dave and then kept buying newer and older Fats over the years.

I have no idea what happened to most of those guys from that scene, but I do know that Dave Van Der Veer passed away a few years ago, don't know what happened to his bike collection when he died, I know he had a mint condition blue to white faded Steve Potts the last time I saw him...Felix from Bicycle Renaissance who had like Fat Chance # 8 from 1982 had that awesome bike stolen, but he left the city in the early-mid 90's and the last time I saw him he somehow had another early Brazed Black Fat Chance that looked like a 1983. Don't know what happened to Carl Mabry, he was really the king of NYC Trials back then...There was a lot of hard core riders back then-a guy with a 1982 Fat Chance in Blue named Chris who my friends and I called "Chris Fat Chance", an older short stocky guy who always wore an old Marine Corps. hat (no helmet) with a 1983 or so dark blue Fat Chance who always said he came down a rock like this and went "Zoooooom" so we called him "Mr. Zoom" and another guy named Dave that worked at Renaissance with an early Sky blue Ibis, who I just called "Dave Ibis" if you remember anyone else let me know...Those were good times when Mountain Biking in the city was FUN!

Michael-NYC


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

Fatmikeynyc said:


> Hey WTB-rider,
> 
> What were you riding back in those days? As I just replied to Benja55 I've always had at least one Black Fat Chance among many others since 1985, so most people know me from the Central Park days as Michael with the Black Fat Chance, I typically remember people from the bikes that they rode and not their actual names!
> 
> ...


Wow, didn't know Dave had passed, what a shame. I remember that Steve Potts well, there was a big brouhaha over it because he ordered 19mm chainstays and Steve built it with "wimpy road bike chainstays" that "will break like spaghetti" I don't recall that bike breaking though.

I rode a few different bikes back then, a Tiger Stripe camo Ibis Mt. Trials with Type II fork, an orange Wicked Fat Chance with a box crown fork, a lizard green Grove X and my "Tamoflage" Steve Potts.

It's been discussed here before but we need to get the east coast V-R-C crew together, we'd definately give those west coast boys a run for their money


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## big.brain (Apr 26, 2004)

*Eastern Woods Research rebuild*

Would post my EWR, but cant get it to upload image.. Well within the parameters set my admins, can someone tell me the trick? just rebuilt...I think you would like. (pls help):mad2:


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## big.brain (Apr 26, 2004)

*Eastern Woods Research rebuild, just finished*

Got this as a primer grey frame, decided to buy it as a project bike, new paint, new parts, mix of old and new school. Took her out for maiden voyage the other day, what an unreal ride! Let me know what you think!!!!


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## moonter (Oct 14, 2004)

big.brain said:


> Let me know what you think!!!!


Lovely.

Let's see some bigger and close-up pictures...


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

big.brain said:


> Got this as a primer grey frame, decided to buy it as a project bike, new paint, new parts, mix of old and new school. Took her out for maiden voyage the other day, what an unreal ride! Let me know what you think!!!!
> 
> 
> I think you got yourself a kick but EWR. I see you are not too far from me. I hope that was not for sale localy and I missed it :mad2:
> ...


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*Not too far from me either!*

I've had trouble posting photos of my EWR Woods Bike also. 
J Ro, if there's going to be a gathering, please let me know!
French Creek ride? Wiss? Wherever!


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

Eastcoaster said:


> J Ro, if there's going to be a gathering, please let me know!
> 
> Yes, I was already thinking you, WTB Rider, maybe Bushpig (NY)and Rody (OH) Drevil (MD) and of course anyone else is welcome. I'm sure we could convince Ed Hall to bring his ti EWR. Would also be nice for Jay to grace us with his presence.
> 
> French Creek ride? Wiss? Wherever!


Yes, I was already thinking you, WTB Rider, maybe Bushpig (NY)and Rody (OH) and of course anyone else is welcome. I'm sure we could convince Ed Hall to bring his ti EWR. Would also be nice for Jay to grace us with his presence.

both great choices


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

J Ro said:


> Yes, I was already thinking you, WTB Rider, maybe Bushpig (NY)and Rody (OH) and of course anyone else is welcome. I'm sure we could convince Ed Hall to bring his ti EWR. Would also be nice for Jay to grace us with his presence.
> 
> both great choices


Oh and Drevil (MD) is more than welcome.


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

WTB-rider said:


> Wow, didn't know Dave had passed, what a shame. I remember that Steve Potts well, there was a big brouhaha over it because he ordered 19mm chainstays and Steve built it with "wimpy road bike chainstays" that "will break like spaghetti" I don't recall that bike breaking though.
> 
> I rode a few different bikes back then, a Tiger Stripe camo Ibis Mt. Trials with Type II fork, an orange Wicked Fat Chance with a box crown fork, a lizard green Grove X and my "Tamoflage" Steve Potts.
> 
> It's been discussed here before but we need to get the east coast V-R-C crew together, we'd definately give those west coast boys a run for their money


WTB-rider,

Sorry for the late reply, been busy working-Yeah, Dave Van Der Veer passed away in like 2001 or 2002, word on the street was that it was some type of cancer related to his service in Vietnam and exposure to agent orange, but no one is really around to get the real story...I often wonder what happened to his bikes and parts, what a collection he must've had!! I think I remember you and your bikes, I won't mention your real name here but I think it may start with an A? Didn't you have WTB roller cam brakes that were painted to match the Tiger Stripes on that camo Ibis? What happened to all of your bikes from the NYC trials days? What are you riding now? Was that you that had a miniature 20" Fat Chance that had drum brakes on it? That was sort of like a trials bike.

I still have my 1988 Fat Chance in mint condition, but it was on Dave V's black Fat Chance that I bought from him after he had it repaired from flying off his roof rack at some race, that I did most of my "trials like" riding on back in those days...that bike is long gone though and I have no photos of it either! I think it was a Prestige tubed Team Comp frame and fork and even though I was a skinny kid, I managed to twist the fork so I could never get the Roller cam brakes adjusted properly and rendered it useless for Central Park rock rides...feel free to send me a PM if you don't want to clog this thread with info unrelated to trials and just want to shoot the $h*t about NYC riding in the 80's

Regards,

Michael-NYC :thumbsup:


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## big.brain (Apr 26, 2004)

Please let me know if you plan on getting together. Had a 'brief' email with Jay DeJesus, ande there was talk of a Jim Thorpe get-together this summer.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

Fatmikeynyc said:


> WTB-rider,
> 
> Sorry for the late reply, been busy working-Yeah, Dave Van Der Veer passed away in like 2001 or 2002, word on the street was that it was some type of cancer related to his service in Vietnam and exposure to agent orange, but no one is really around to get the real story...I often wonder what happened to his bikes and parts, what a collection he must've had!! I think I remember you and your bikes, I won't mention your real name here but I think it may start with an A? Didn't you have WTB roller cam brakes that were painted to match the Tiger Stripes on that camo Ibis? What happened to all of your bikes from the NYC trials days? What are you riding now? Was that you that had a miniature 20" Fat Chance that had drum brakes on it? That was sort of like a trials bike.
> 
> ...


Hey Mike,

The Ibis you're thinking of did belong to someone whose name started with an "A" but I'm not him, mine was a Mt.Trials(24/26 combo) Check your PM's.


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*Just pulling this photo(s) off of the recent EWR thread..but,*



scrublover said:


> How about a modern version? (blasphemy, i know, but......) I think of it as a modern EWR bike. The builder markets it as his slalom/urban/do it all bike. www.peytocycles.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't know how my reply got shoved into your post above...but, if you can see it...please read...didn't feel like typing it over...


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

J Ro said:


> Oh and Drevil (MD) is more than welcome.


Just sold mine and shipped it up to New York today. When I got onto the 29ers, the EWR hardly ever got ridden. Plus, the buyer made an offer I couldn't refuse! :thumbsup:


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Eastcoaster said:


> Don't know how my reply got shoved into your post above...but, if you can see it...please read...didn't feel like typing it over...OK just read the 69 degr. HA. in your post. How short are the chainstays? Oops. Just saw that below...Love the bike!
> And, love the Dansko's on the floor. Mine have been with me every day to work for the last few years! Used to get heel pain (retail pharmacist: 12 hour days) and since the Danskos, seem to rotate my weight forward and been fine ever since! Friends "bust" on me as a guy wearing clogs...but...screw 'em!


ah, the danskos are ms. scrubs. i actually like the way they feel, but wish they had smaller heels. if they did, i'd get some.

12 hour 7a-7p night shifts for me; ICU rn for the last 8 years. i'm a fan of the crocs clogs. i'm on the same pair i bought 4 years ago for $25. granted, i only wear them at work, so they don't get shredded.

any other Qs about the Peyto, let me know. i've had a few mtbs (hardtails) that i've really loved riding, but this one blows them all away, so far in every type of riding situation i've had it in.


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*Thanks! I've had some hardtails that I loved too...*



scrublover said:


> ah, the danskos are ms. scrubs. i actually like the way they feel, but wish they had smaller heels. if they did, i'd get some.
> 
> 12 hour 7a-7p night shifts for me; ICU rn for the last 8 years. i'm a fan of the crocs clogs. i'm on the same pair i bought 4 years ago for $25. granted, i only wear them at work, so they don't get shredded.
> 
> any other Qs about the Peyto, let me know. i've had a few mtbs (hardtails) that i've really loved riding, but this one blows them all away, so far in every type of riding situation i've had it in.


Thought that I'd never give up my Smorgasbord (PA made) frame until I found my EWR. Honestly...the Peyto looks good! Will definitely look into it further.
And, so funny what you said about the Crocs...I recently bought a pair of Holey Soles! Supposed to be a bit squishier...but I don't think that I can really tell.


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

Drevil said:


> Just sold mine and shipped it up to New York today. When I got onto the 29ers, the EWR hardly ever got ridden. Plus, the buyer made an offer I couldn't refuse! :thumbsup:


I almost made you an offer you couldn't refuse. Here is mine in almost done mode.










​


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*So...wait...J Ro...you bought Drevil's frame?...confused...*



J Ro said:


> I almost made you an offer you couldn't refuse. Here is mine in almost done mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So few of 'em around...yet losing track of who own's what. 
Just ordered Cane Creek Direct Curve brakes for the rear of mine. TO solve the rear brake cable routing problem when used with "traditional" V type brakes. Out of the last brake stop, way out to the start of the noodle...then 90 degr. BACK toward the brake. 
The CC DC solves them all.....although I was going ot send the bike for a disc plate, rear stud removal, and water bottle and seat post bolt removal....Thinking about it....


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

Eastcoaster said:


> So few of 'em around...yet losing track of who own's what.
> Just ordered Cane Creek Direct Curve brakes for the rear of mine. TO solve the rear brake cable routing problem when used with "traditional" V type brakes. Out of the last brake stop, way out to the start of the noodle...then 90 degr. BACK toward the brake.
> The CC DC solves them all.....although I was going ot send the bike for a disc plate, rear stud removal, and water bottle and seat post bolt removal....Thinking about it....


No, not him...unless he posts under another username. But I sent the buyer the Thomson seatpost I was using, and that pic doesn't have it.


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

Eastcoaster said:


> So few of 'em around...yet losing track of who own's what.
> Just ordered Cane Creek Direct Curve brakes for the rear of mine. TO solve the rear brake cable routing problem when used with "traditional" V type brakes. Out of the last brake stop, way out to the start of the noodle...then 90 degr. BACK toward the brake.
> The CC DC solves them all.....although I was going ot send the bike for a disc plate, rear stud removal, and water bottle and seat post bolt removal....Thinking about it....


The best linear pull brakes I've ever used are the Avid Ultimate. Cool thing is they are reversible as well. Super cool thing is that they are on sale at Greenfish Sports. I picked up a front and rear pair a few months ago, along with a pair of the most excellent Ultimate Levers. The levers are $119 now, but a few months ago they were $99. I don't know if the price will drop again.


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

Eastcoaster said:


> So few of 'em around...yet losing track of who own's what.
> Just ordered Cane Creek Direct Curve brakes for the rear of mine. TO solve the rear brake cable routing problem when used with "traditional" V type brakes. Out of the last brake stop, way out to the start of the noodle...then 90 degr. BACK toward the brake.
> The CC DC solves them all.....although I was going ot send the bike for a disc plate, rear stud removal, and water bottle and seat post bolt removal....Thinking about it....


Eastcoaster

No, this is that old beat up one that Jay and Chris Vandine raced and abused. I cleaned up the badly dented chainstays and had it powdered and new decals - good as new. 
I see your thinking new fork for yours. I'm using this old Judy DH seems to work pretty well. I'm thinking about trying something different and i'm with you on the coil thing. I'm thinking Atom Bomb or White Bros XC90?


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*Now I remember! & I just posted about an Atom 80.....funny.....*

The frame doesn't look ANYTHING like it did when you bought it! Nice job!

So, I'm in my LBS yesterday and in walks a guy looking to leave is old bike there to sell it. An old, lower end Kona. I'm standing there drooling over the almost new condition Marzocchi Bomber Z-2 Atom 80 fork on it and the orig. Syncros seatpost. (Could care less about the whole bike. Which, BTW, he wants $450.00 for the whole deal)

I asked about selling the shock and he goes on how it has XTR "V" brakes, etc., etc.

So, how much do you all out there think that the fork is worth? It is black with the "M" arch. And, like I said, not really even a scratch on it. $?

Personally, I think that the bike is going to sit and not sell. I believe that the shop thinks so too. SO, my plan is to give him a call and put the offer for the fork out there and let him know that the offer stands. So, that if the bike doesn't sell, he can give me a buzz and at least make SOME dough off of it. I just think that he couldn't bear to see his beloved bike be broken up for parts.
Understandable....
Just going to require some patience on my part I think.
Thanks for any input on what to offer for the fork.


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

Eastcoaster said:


> The frame doesn't look ANYTHING like it did when you bought it! Nice job!
> 
> So, I'm in my LBS yesterday and in walks a guy looking to leave is old bike there to sell it. An old, lower end Kona. I'm standing there drooling over the almost new condition Marzocchi Bomber Z-2 Atom 80 fork on it and the orig. Syncros seatpost. (Could care less about the whole bike. Which, BTW, he wants $450.00 for the whole deal)
> 
> ...


I think $90.00 sounds fair. Do you have another fork you can offer plus cash? I doubt he will want to be without a fork if he is trying to sell the bike.


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