# Dropper post are faster.



## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

one thing to point and almost anyone who has switched to dropper can tell you is that it can be hard for people who are not use to dropped seats to take up the extra range of motion afforded to them. I also think the guy who was slower with his fixed post dropped was because he could not raise for the pedaling sections.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

That was the stupidest video comparison to date. 

Congrats on finding it, it made me chuckle a bit.:thumbsup:


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> That was the stupidest video comparison to date.
> 
> Congrats on finding it, it made me chuckle a bit.:thumbsup:


what would you do to make it a better comparison?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> That was the stupidest video comparison to date.
> 
> Congrats on finding it, it made me chuckle a bit.:thumbsup:


Well, I was going to ask this on a new thread, but I think I can do it on this one.

I never lower my saddle for descent, is it a Cardinal Sin? I know you are "supposed" to, but if I'm comfortable is it a problem? It sounds like a dumb question when I write it, but on my ride today I was thinking about this.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

jcd46 said:


> Well, I was going to ask this on a new thread, but I think I can do it on this one.
> 
> I never lower my saddle for descent, is it a Cardinal Sin? I know you are "supposed" to, but if I'm comfortable is it a problem? It sounds like a dumb question when I write it, but on my ride today I was thinking about this.


its ok if you like being slower, and potential less safe. The thing is it IS a pain to lower your seat for every little Dh or tech section with out a dropper but with one you can lower your seat literally for single turn or single tech features and have it come right back up to you. being comfortable never means something is better if you have not tried the other things.

So this is less an argument about whether you should lower your seat or not, its more about how dropper are undeniably faster because of how easy you can lower your seat.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

BushwackerinPA said:


> its ok if you like being slower, and potential less safe. The thing is it IS a pain to lower your seat for every little Dh or tech section with out a dropper but with one you can lower your seat literally for single turn or single tech features and have it come right back up to you. being comfortable never means something is better if you have not tried the other things.
> 
> So this is less an argument about whether you should lower your seat or not, its more about how dropper are undeniably faster because of how easy you can lower your seat.


I would think there isn't much of an argument on the dropper, it is much easier and faster. But do get the point on slowness and safety. I do find it a pain to stop and lower your seat, so I guess for my next bike I will consider a dropper.:thumbsup:


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Jolanda Neff and Emily Batty don't need no damn dropper post...or perhaps they do and u should tweet them this video?? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

zephxiii said:


> Jolanda Neff and Emily Batty don't need no damn dropper post...or perhaps they do and u should tweet them this video??
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


whats funny is this the arguement what people keep claiming. Need is a very strong word. No one needs anything beside food, water and shelter, these are are actually needs. Sure they are doing ok with what they have now, but have they ever actually tested with a dropper? Like I said its take some time to adapt to using its and using the new found range of motion a dropper affords you.

These guys who are not **** riders when its former WC DH were 15+ second faster and fairly a short DH. There is no way any rider would lose 15 second due to .5 lb a dropper post adds.

So I guess the question I ask you is this. Has any WC XC racers done extensive testing with a dropper and found out what if any their time difference is. I think they would be foolish to not even try it. Even if they are Neff, Batty or Nino.


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## kyle242gt (Nov 12, 2012)

A lot of hobbyists do things pro racers don't. Doesn't mean that they don't help those of us in the cheap seats.

The dropper yea/nay can also depend on body size/shape - I'm fairly lean and got by without a dropper for a couple years. My clyde bro in law got a dropper much sooner. His larger legs and higher saddle position made getting behind the seat near impossible.

Still glad I have one on my FS bike, but I'm not running out to put one on my fatty or HT.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

What WC XC racers use is not relevant to 99% of riders out there. It you could ride like that you would be racing in the WC and if you're reading this I'll bet you're not. Is 200-300g added to your bike going to make a spit of difference except in your head, no. Is it safer to ride DH, corners, an rock gardens with the seat down, YES. I really don't care what WC riders from any discipline do as I ride for fun. Do I want to spend wasted time healing, no, so I use a dropper.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

LOL Everyone gets so defensive on droppers. Haters gonna hate, this is all in fun.

Do ya think the WC peeps haven't tested or aren't aware of droppers? I'm sure they would run them if they felt there was a big advantage for them to have one. And I believe there are a couple that do. Also I'm pretty sure I've seen Nino at least roll one on his Genius play bike (actually I don't really know).

In XC races I do I don't see droppers either....so ? 

Yes the saddle gets in the way for me on cornering, not descents...but I dunno I'm not in need of one. I don't feel unsafe without a dropper. 

Run one if u want, I like riding without so don't hate me for it. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BushwackerinPA said:


> what would you do to make it a better comparison?


Thrown that video in the trash and started over.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Thrown that video in the trash and started over.


what should they do then?


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

zephxiii said:


> LOL Everyone gets so defensive on droppers. Haters gonna hate, this is all in fun.
> 
> Do ya think the WC peeps haven't tested or aren't aware of droppers? I'm sure they would run them if they felt there was a big advantage for them to have one. And I believe there are a couple that do. Also I'm pretty sure I've seen Nino at least roll one on his Genius play bike (actually I don't really know).
> 
> ...


The thing is World Cup racers are couple years behind what will make them faster all the time. At one point in time 29er were dominating XC races in america but the WC was still being done almost entirely on 26ers. Does nt mean 26er were faster than 29er then it just means WC riders are more conservative with their setups.

The samething has happened several times

Disc Brakes
tubeless tires
suspension forks
thru axle forks
1x drivetrains

Almost everytime the product was first used primary by just normal MTB riders, before WC racers tried it and ended up being faster with it. The only things I can think of that are more common on WC XC(or WC DH, Or EWS) then on commoner bikes are tubular tires in WC XC, and eletronic shifting and suspension control on WC XC and EWS bikes. Its interesting to think that average joes are more willing to guinea pig before people whos job depends on them being faster. Lets face why would someone who is not being paid to ride ever spend an absurd amount of money on anything if it truly did not make the sport more fun, easier or faster.


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## man.cave (Nov 8, 2014)

I love droppers and have one on 2 of my 4 mtn bikes and my wife has one. Now I don't have one on my Epic or ss for 3 reasons: (no certain order) 1. weight, I spent a ton of money getting this bike light as possible. 2. I hammer the flats and climbs with my epic and SS, and don't hit the DH as hard as I do on my 2 dropper bikes I use that time to somewhat recover. 3. both my ss and epic have 27.2 seatpost so not a lot of options. My wife loves her and uses it more and more. Again I love droppers but not every bike has to have one. If I only had one mtn bike, it would have a dropper


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

weight is irrelevant if what your doing to save is making the bike slower.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BushwackerinPA said:


> what should they do then?


Remake the video.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

zephxiii said:


> Jolanda Neff and Emily Batty don't need no damn dropper post...or perhaps they do and u should tweet them this video??
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Who is Emily Batty? Please post several hundred pics so I know what she looks like.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Finch Platte said:


> Who is Emily Batty? Please post several hundred pics so I know what she looks like.


Highdell is that you?


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

I got a dropper for my FS a few weeks ago. My favorite thing about it may be that I can drop it all the way and rest seated with both feet on the ground when I need a breather. Ha! 

Mine's a Specialized Command Post and just has three positions. I figured I'd be using it all the way up or all the way down, but I'm finding I use the slightly dropped position a lot. Liking it enough that I'm thinking about putting droppers on my other bikes.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Finch Platte said:


> Who is Emily Batty? Please post several hundred pics so I know what she looks like.


My attention has been piqued!

_[SUB]Along with some other things....[/SUB]_


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Finch Platte said:


> Who is Emily Batty? Please post several hundred pics so I know what she looks like.


Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Geralt said:


> I got a dropper for my FS a few weeks ago. My favorite thing about it may be that I can drop it all the way and rest seated with both feet on the ground when I need a breather. Ha!
> 
> Mine's a Specialized Command Post and just has three positions. I figured I'd be using it all the way up or all the way down, but I'm finding I use the slightly dropped position a lot. Liking it enough that I'm thinking about putting droppers on my other bikes.


Wait till you get a KS LEV and avoid the limiting 3 posit doldrums!:ihih:


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Double post sorry


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

jcd46 said:


> Well, I was going to ask this on a new thread, but I think I can do it on this one.
> 
> I never lower my saddle for descent, is it a Cardinal Sin? I know you are "supposed" to, but if I'm comfortable is it a problem? It sounds like a dumb question when I write it, but on my ride today I was thinking about this.


Lowering the saddle increases your range of motion substantially. More range of motion means better balance, and more room to move independent of the bike. It's easier to maintain attack positioning when you ride and you eliminate the urge to perch on the saddle. Short version: safer and more stable.

I was first shown the technique to ride saddle down on descents in 2002 at a clinic. I wore out three QRs before I got my first dropper post.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Emily is well known for shunning new technology.

Hell, when she takes a selfy, her camera is so old and heavy it takes both hands to hold it up!


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

BushwackerinPA said:


> weight is irrelevant if what your doing to save is making the bike slower.


Could you repeat that, please, this time in English?


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

net wurker said:


> Emily is well known for shunning new technology.
> 
> Hell, when she takes a selfy, her camera is so old and heavy it takes both hands to hold it up!


That's NOT a camera she has in her left hand.


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

I believe Absilon and Neff have only recently started using full suspension so pro XC racers sometimes are late to the game. What would be interesting is to see how many enduro riders don't have droppers. My bet is most of them do due to the more varied terrain than XC. 

For trail riding a dropper is a must. You can't get low in turns and angle the tires properly, or do jumps nearly as well. Sure, you can get behind your seat but your range of motion is severely limited front to back as well as side to side. You are essentially defining your movements by your seat vs what the terrain is calling for. 

Also there is a neat trick you can do with dropper posts - if you find yourself on a steep incline heading up and you have to stop for whatever reason, it is very tough to get moving again when you aren't seated due to loss of traction. Use the dropper to lower your seat so you can start with one leg already clipped in, seated. Then when you get going you can instantly raise the seat back to climbing position, then clip in the other foot.

I have a feeling that riders without droppers probably ride with their seat lower than it should be just so they can feel comfortable on the downs. So, they are compromising even on the climbs with a seat that is too low. A dropper lets you dial in the absolute perfect climbing position in addition to the perfect descending position.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Hmm..... where are the threads about whether it's faster to ride the log skinny across or the crossing at the creek? I think I need that resolved first. 

There's a log used as a bridge on a trail near me and I noticed the main split between who just rides it, goes around or stops starts with those having a dropper post. Later divisions have more to do with wearing feetbelts and who shops at spandex.com.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

We were discussing how much we like our droppers recently and my buddy said "I woul give up my rear brake sooner than my dropper". I would certainly give up my 150mm of rear travel.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

SDMTB'er said:


> I believe Absilon and Neff have only recently started using full suspension so pro XC racers sometimes are late to the game. What would be interesting is to see how many enduro riders don't have droppers. My bet is most of them do due to the more varied terrain than XC.
> 
> For trail riding a dropper is a must. You can't get low in turns and angle the tires properly, or do jumps nearly as well. Sure, you can get behind your seat but your range of motion is severely limited front to back as well as side to side. You are essentially defining your movements by your seat vs what the terrain is calling for.
> 
> ...


"Trail" riding is XC. It's XC without the lycra, with an extra 40mm of suspension, going slower on the same trails. It's taking breaks at the top of the climbs. Wearing camelbacks instead of water bottles.

Absalon never used an FS in a race because he preferred a hard tail. He uses them all the time (he took 2nd (to his brother) in a Megavalanche race a couple years back on a long travel Orbea).

I've never felt that my climbing was compromised; my seat height, angle and fore-aft position is exactly the same on my XC, AM, CX and road bikes. It's only the cockpit that varies on those bikes.

Your post is basically a list of YOUR limitations; I don't have your problems using a standard, non-dropper seatpost on an XC bike.


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## SWriverstone (Sep 3, 2009)

Okay, time to inject a little reality into this thread: I've known about droppers since they first came out and actually would love to try one! 

That said, I've been riding blissfully for years without one. I keep my seat permanently bolted in "high roadie" position, and I have no trouble getting my butt behind the seat on downhills—and I never ride downhills that are so steep I feel like I'm out-of-control or going to endo. I just have zero interest in riding anything that steep. (I've also never even come close to doing an endo.)

My point is that not only are droppers not a "must-have," there are likely tens of thousands of MTBers without them who are perfectly happy. 

But I'd still like to try one! 

Scott


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

jcd46 said:


> Well, I was going to ask this on a new thread, but I think I can do it on this one.
> 
> I never lower my saddle for descent, is it a Cardinal Sin? I know you are "supposed" to, but if I'm comfortable is it a problem? It sounds like a dumb question when I write it, but on my ride today I was thinking about this.


Have you ever tried descending with the seat dropped? If you have and don't care for it, great. But I don't think a lot of people have really tried it.

By "dropped," I mean dropped way down, not just a couple inches. When I drop the post by the full 4" or whatever my seatpost does, my bike feels like a different machine when it gets really steep and rocky.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

SWriverstone said:


> (I've also never even come close to doing an endo.)


I can't see a dropper helping if you can't do a proper endo.
That's the first step in learning how to_ really _crash.

Oh, and to stay on topic: You guys, droppers is awesome!


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

SWriverstone said:


> That said, I've been riding blissfully for years without one. I keep my seat permanently bolted in "high roadie" position, and I have no trouble getting my butt behind the seat on downhills-and I never ride downhills that are so steep I feel like I'm out-of-control or going to endo. I just have zero interest in riding anything that steep. (I've also never even come close to doing an endo.)
> 
> My point is that not only are droppers not a "must-have," there are likely tens of thousands of MTBers without them who are perfectly happy.
> 
> ...


This is a commonly repeated misconception about dropper posts. Most people never have a problem getting behind the saddle (although quickly getting back in front of it can be an issue). That's not the advantage they provide.

The real advantage of getting the saddle lower and out of the way is creating room to move the bike around beneath you, particularly when cornering. Try riding your trail bike on a pump track and you'll get the idea. If you're built like me (long torso, short legs) it's a major advantage. That's even more the case with a modern AM bike with a short cockpit and steep seat tube angle.


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## kickhorse (Aug 3, 2013)

I thought I didn't want one until Backcountry had a super deal on the KS Lev and I bought one. Then I couldn't ride my other bikes without one so I bought another. I feel safer and more in control on technical downhill, and find myself riding faster because of it. I still have an SS hardtail without a dropper, but where I ride this bike it's mainly xc type trails. If they didn't cost so much I'd probably put one on there too. Bottom line is, if you don't want one and are happy without it, then don't feel pressured to get one.


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## TSpice (May 15, 2015)

Eh, in my area there isn't any significant enough descents to warrant a dropper post. 

Out of the maybe 60 miles of trail in my area, I have had to get behind my seat maybe twice. (2.5-3ft drop with a 90deg turn so you have to hit it very slow) Other than that, you can generally use other riding techniques to reduce the need for the dropper. Usually you can just slow down your rear tire, rip a wheelie, and hop down a drop. 

Regardless, I fully see the benefit of a dropper post. Just without significant down hills it seems like an expensive frill without much purpose. 

Maybe on a hard tail where having the seat post hit your tailbone is an issue, but on a FSR my seat is rarely an issue. (Again, a lot of the trails in this area are the fast and flowy with some climbs and minor descents. ie maybe 500-600ft of vertical over 5 miles)


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

We have lots of places that are impossible to walk down without sliding on your butt or holding onto trees. Having the saddle out of the way is the safe, fun way to get down. We ride some trails that the DH guys shuttle as well. There's a reason saddle are low on DH bikes!


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> "Trail" riding is XC. It's XC without the lycra, with an extra 40mm of suspension, going slower on the same trails. It's taking breaks at the top of the climbs. Wearing camelbacks instead of water bottles.
> <snip>
> 
> I don't have your problems using a standard, non-dropper seatpost on an XC bike.


ditto. [but I use a camelbak and water bottles]

you like a dropper, use your dropper.

I ride everywhere without one. my saddle is perfect for [example] 15.99 miles of all terrain ... for the .01 mile a dropper would be nice, I just ride through it anyway using skills I have honed over the last 30 years of riding and wrecking.

what I am not doing is carrying the extra grams all the other times I don't need a dropper

hardtail no dropper XC until I die, 
and i prefer roots and rocks hate groomed handicap ramps


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

People push droppers as something for steep downhills but in reality, they have a much greater use. I use my dropper more than my shifter and find that if anything, it has the least benefit on steep downhills.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

evasive said:


> This is a commonly repeated misconception about dropper posts. Most people never have a problem getting behind the saddle (although quickly getting back in front of it can be an issue). That's not the advantage they provide.
> 
> The real advantage of getting the saddle lower and out of the way is creating room to move the bike around beneath you, particularly when cornering. Try riding your trail bike on a pump track and you'll get the idea. If you're built like me (long torso, short legs) it's a major advantage. That's even more the case with a modern AM bike with a short cockpit and steep seat tube angle.


100% spot on. Well said.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

evasive said:


> This is a commonly repeated misconception about dropper posts. Most people never have a problem getting behind the saddle (although quickly getting back in front of it can be an issue). That's not the advantage they provide.
> 
> The real advantage of getting the saddle lower and out of the way is creating room to move the bike around beneath you, particularly when cornering. Try riding your trail bike on a pump track and you'll get the idea. If you're built like me (long torso, short legs) it's a major advantage. That's even more the case with a modern AM bike with a short cockpit and steep seat tube angle.


Exactly. I would also like to add that my ideal riding position in steep, fast, rough (here I am talking about long sections of 4 inch and larger square edged hits, fast downhill turns on baby heads and rocks, narrowly spaced one to two foot shelves) is to have my body lowered and slightly back. I'm not behind the saddle, but rather my pelvis is right where the saddle would be. Lowers my center of gravity making me more stable and really allows me to push through the corners using my legs and hips while still keeping the front wheel well loaded.

Being 5 foot 10 with stupidly short legs (31 inch inseam based on a true bike measurement which translates to something less than a 29 inch pants inseam) the dropper made a huge difference to me. Especially since my trails go up and down frequently.

If you're taller with longer legs or if your trails go up for 10 miles and then down for 6, the advantages of a dropper are probably less. I would still think letting the saddle down for long, fast, rough downhill would make it much more fun, but the cost to fun ratio of a dropper might be too high.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

formica said:


> Lowering the saddle increases your range of motion substantially. More range of motion means better balance, and more room to move independent of the bike. It's easier to maintain attack positioning when you ride and you eliminate the urge to perch on the saddle. Short version: safer and more stable.
> 
> I was first shown the technique to ride saddle down on descents in 2002 at a clinic. I wore out three QRs before I got my first dropper post.


Thank you formica !


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Tystevens said:


> Have you ever tried descending with the seat dropped? If you have and don't care for it, great. But I don't think a lot of people have really tried it.
> 
> By "dropped," I mean dropped way down, not just a couple inches. When I drop the post by the full 4" or whatever my seatpost does, my bike feels like a different machine when it gets really steep and rocky.


I did at the beginning, probably to new to know any different. Then it became just normal to descend with the seat up, I do have long legs 33inseam so I think that helps me get behind the saddle without much trouble. Now that I'm getting a bit more confident, and have learned a few things I might give it a shot.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

evasive said:


> This is a commonly repeated misconception about dropper posts. Most people never have a problem getting behind the saddle (although quickly getting back in front of it can be an issue). That's not the advantage they provide.
> 
> The real advantage of getting the saddle lower and out of the way is creating room to move the bike around beneath you, particularly when cornering. Try riding your trail bike on a pump track and you'll get the idea. If you're built like me (long torso, short legs) it's a major advantage. That's even more the case with a modern AM bike with a short cockpit and steep seat tube angle.


I am always working on cornering. Maybe I will practice with my seat lowered.

But yes, I have ridden my rigid 29er at Ray's Indoor MTB Park and I do have better control specifically on the pump track and the baby jump line (never graduated from that yet) with the seat lowered. Can I ride them with the seat up? Sure. Less margin for error, though. If you've ever gotten hooked on your saddle on a pump track you know how badly that goes...



IPunchCholla said:


> ...
> 
> Being 5 foot 10 with stupidly short legs (31 inch inseam based on a true bike measurement which translates to something less than a 29 inch pants inseam) the super made a huge difference to me. Especially since my trails go up and down frequently.
> 
> If you're taller with longer legs our if your trails go up for 10 miles and then down for 6, the advantages of a dropper are probably less. I would still think letting the saddle for long, fast, rough downhill would make it much more fun.


Being 6'-3" I think I do have an advantage in how far I can move the bike relative to my center of gravity. A dropper post would def. be very helpful for a smaller person, but I think less so for someone my size.

I have ridden some very steep stuff with my saddle at XC pedaling height. It's possible.
I might have to investigate cornering, though. Obviously I am not sold on the cost/performance ratio yet. Extra weight is not a huge deal, but I think I'm about maxed out on weight at 27# for a non-weight-weenie steel build. The lowered saddle will have to knock my socks off.

-F

btw - having the seat up keeps me off the rear tire, and is how I "dampen" the rigid back end of the bike - essentially holding the rear tire down (or limiting "rear wheel travel") with my butt. Not sure if this is a problem for others.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

SWriverstone said:


> Okay, time to inject a little reality into this thread: I've known about droppers since they first came out and actually would love to try one!
> 
> That said, I've been riding blissfully for years without one. I keep my seat permanently bolted in "high roadie" position, and I have no trouble getting my butt behind the seat on downhills-and I never ride downhills that are so steep I feel like I'm out-of-control or going to endo. I just have zero interest in riding anything that steep. (I've also never even come close to doing an endo.)
> 
> ...


*Scott*, I was in the same boat as you, then I decided to splurge for a LEV a couple of years ago. Now, I wouldn't ride without one. Do yourself a favor and get one. Not sure how much _'trying one' _will tell you. If you aren't used to using it, it will take time to really enjoy the benefits, then you are hooked.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

I don't have one, but I want one.

They are faster, and here is why.

I stop and get off my bike before the descents in my local riding area's because I know I am faster with the seat lower. 

So I stop, get off and lower my seat.

With a dropper I skip that entire phase of stopping.



/faster


/end thread.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> I don't have one, but I want one.
> 
> They are faster, and here is why.
> 
> ...


Wrong.

/faster

/end thread

/drink beer.

Fixed.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

I like how the "I don't need one because I already know everything" crowd seems to completely ignore that virtually everyone who currently uses a dropper post rode for years without one.

Does a dropper post give you the ability to do anything you couldn't? Of course not. What you're able or unable to do comes down to skill, and a huge dose of confidence...and confidence is where a dropper post helps. News flash: if you think you're already confident enough you're lying to yourself.

The idea that you can ride downhill just as fast regardless of where your center of gravity is is just silly. Lower is more stable, stable is faster, faster corner exits and speeds at the bottom of hills means less pedaling, or faster overall speeds with the same amount of pedaling.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

You can have my dropper when you pry it from my cold dead a$$.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

That is how I feel about mine.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> "Trail" riding is XC. It's XC without the lycra, with an extra 40mm of suspension, going slower on the same trails. It's taking breaks at the top of the climbs. Wearing camelbacks instead of water bottles.
> 
> Absalon never used an FS in a race because he preferred a hard tail. He uses them all the time (he took 2nd (to his brother) in a Megavalanche race a couple years back on a long travel Orbea).
> 
> ...


you are really funny and also apparently think people who do not race XC can not ride.

You basically did not see the video. Basically my bet is anyone given enough time getting use to dropper even on fairly non technical trails everyone would be faster. Lets just say there is a 7 minute loops(roughly what it would probably be to get the top of the video's 2:45 ih desent). Unless that loop is pancake flat a skilled rider is going to gain time going down the hill, and there should be no appreciatable lose of time climbing or on flats due to a dropper, heck I use my climbing on tech stuff all the time especially on my single speed.

basically not having a problem and its being actually better are not the same thing. I can ride most thing with fixed height seat post, but I am slower. Heck maybe youd have more KOM if you have a dropper.

I also find it funny that your for and aft position is exactly the same on all of your bikes, what point is there to an AM bike fitting the same as a road bike, well unless you ride the AM bike like a road bike.


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## bankerboy (Oct 17, 2006)

This thread reads like a golf article.

"GUARANTEED TO REDUCE YOUR HANDICAP!!"

First, there are no guarantees, only opinions
Second, data lacking scientific and controlled research are still opinions
Third, my dad can kick your dads s$$.
Fourth, who gives a crap since most people ride for the sake of riding? How many of our racers are at a point that the 1/2 to 6 second claimed advantage makes a life altering difference that a rider HAS TO HAVE the dropper.

I love my dropper for a lot of reason. The alleged speed reason was not one of them. I bought it because it was cool, and I like toys. After all, I have a mountain bike. One of the coolest toys I want. That is why.


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## micky (Jan 28, 2004)

do I need one? No
Do I have one? yes...on my FS and my HT
After trying a freind with one, I found that several sections were more enjoyable and less scary. Got one for the FS and fell in love with it and noticed an immediate reduction in fun on my HT. So I got one for the HT. You dont realize what you are missing till you try it, and now that I have it, i dont want to go back. It just makes the ride expeireince that much better. And you might not realize it till you go back to a regular post.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

I do see a resonating theme emerging: "Now that I have one I'll never go back to not having one".


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

net wurker said:


> I do see a resonating theme emerging: "Now that I have one I'll never go back to not having one".


Yep, that would appear to be the key information from this thread! Not many will say "yeah, I had one and it sucked, so I dumped it in the bin ..."

I recently rode on a serious trail without a dropper for the first time in years (on a rental bike, mine was broken), and I was really missing it. A trail that is largely flat but has a few steepish or very tech sections. So the kind of trail where you either would change the seatpost length every 5-10 minutes, or just have to make do with a less than optimal riding position.

Yeah, I 'can' work my way through the tough areas with the seat hitting me in the stomach and not having my customary range of motion, but I definitely would rather have had it!


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

BushwackerinPA said:


> basically not having a problem and its being actually better are not the same thing. I can ride most thing with fixed height seat post, but I am slower. Heck maybe youd have more KOM if you have a dropper.


More like he wouldn't be such a mid-pack descender. He's not the well rounded rider he makes himself to be, at least according to the Strava that he's so willing to wave around.



net wurker said:


> I do see a resonating theme emerging: "Now that I have one I'll never go back to not having one".


Some people just think they know everything about something they haven't really tried, and everybody else, who have actual experience with something, are idiots.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

I feel like I just time travelled 5 years into MTBR's past except the word "29er" was replaced with "dropper".


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

There are riders who can descend pretty fast with the saddle up but they are not fast because the saddle is up, but in spite of it. If someone can show me how descending, cornering or jumping is safer and faster with the saddle all the way up I will eat my sweaty chamois.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I feel like I just time travelled 5 years into MTBR's past except the word "29er" was replaced with "dropper".


This has happened with every advancement in mtb tech. Indexing, suspension, discs, geometry, etc.


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## SWriverstone (Sep 3, 2009)

evasive said:


> This is a commonly repeated misconception about dropper posts. Most people never have a problem getting behind the saddle (although quickly getting back in front of it can be an issue). That's not the advantage they provide.
> 
> The real advantage of getting the saddle lower and out of the way is creating room to move the bike around beneath you, particularly when cornering. Try riding your trail bike on a pump track and you'll get the idea. If you're built like me (long torso, short legs) it's a major advantage. That's even more the case with a modern AM bike with a short cockpit and steep seat tube angle.


Oh I don't doubt the dropper gives you a lot more space to move around and lower your CG. And I'd like to get one!

All I was saying is that for the kind of riding I do and the trails I've ridden (and as shocking as this may sound) I have no desire to ride any faster. I plod downhill using the brakes a lot, and I slow way down for corners. I couldn't care less about screaming down hills and slingshotting at high speeds around corners. I'm not a racer. I'm not even a wannabe racer-I'm an MTBer who likes to listen to the birds, check out the wildflowers, and stop to take lots of pics. 

And at the speeds I'm riding, no-I'm NEVER less than completely comfortable on downhills-even without a dropper.  And if the trail goes down even more steeply, I just avoid it-or get off and walk (and enjoy the birds and the wildflowers). 

Scott

PS - But even at my plodding pace, I'm sure a dropper might motivate me to speed up. But if I start missing birds and wildflowers, I'll take it off. ;-)


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

Everyone likes different things about riding, and that's great.

But, if you get that seat out of the way, you might be more comfortable on steeper downhills. Just a thought.

I rode for about 2 years before I truly 'dropped' the seat (at the time, I thought dropping the seat was taking it down maybe 2 inches). I remember riding with my brother and he was flowing through stuff that I wouldn't dare ride. I commented about it when we stopped, and he recommended putting the seat all the way down. Completely different experience; I rode stuff I hadn't come close to riding before.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

Tystevens said:


> Everyone likes different things about riding, and that's great.


I don't.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

SWriverstone said:


> ...(and as shocking as this may sound) I have no desire to ride any faster. I plod downhill using the brakes a lot, and I slow way down for corners. I couldn't care less about screaming down hills and slingshotting at high speeds around corners. I'm not a racer. I'm not even a wannabe racer-I'm an MTBer who likes to listen to the birds, check out the wildflowers, and stop to take lots of pics. ...


Wow. That's kinda cool. Very Zen-like. For good or for bad, it is the 180 degree opposite of my mindset.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

SWriverstone said:


> Oh I don't doubt the dropper gives you a lot more space to move around and lower your CG. And I'd like to get one!
> 
> All I was saying is that for the kind of riding I do and the trails I've ridden (and as shocking as this may sound) I have no desire to ride any faster. I plod downhill using the brakes a lot, and I slow way down for corners. I couldn't care less about screaming down hills and slingshotting at high speeds around corners. I'm not a racer. I'm not even a wannabe racer-I'm an MTBer who likes to listen to the birds, check out the wildflowers, and stop to take lots of pics.
> 
> ...


the thing you will never had any desire to go faster if it feels unsafe.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

BushwackerinPA said:


> you are really funny and also apparently think people who do not race XC can not ride.
> 
> You basically did not see the video. Basically my bet is anyone given enough time getting use to dropper even on fairly non technical trails everyone would be faster. Lets just say there is a 7 minute loops(roughly what it would probably be to get the top of the video's 2:45 ih desent). Unless that loop is pancake flat a skilled rider is going to gain time going down the hill, and there should be no appreciatable lose of time climbing or on flats due to a dropper, heck I use my climbing on tech stuff all the time especially on my single speed.
> 
> ...


The point of having my saddle position (not the same as "bike fit") the same across all of my bikes is that I've paid good money to a) prevent injury b) produce power c) enhance comfort. My kneecap moved from the front of my leg to the side of my leg during an incident in Afghanistan. My saddle position reflects my needs. And, as I clearly stated in the post that you quoted, my cockpit (bars, stem, stack height) varies from bike to bike. I don't know how that is hard to understand, but let me spell it out for you: My BIKE FIT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM BIKE TO BIKE. My AM bike is not set up in the same manner as my road bike; I don't have 740mm bars on my road bike, and I don't have 42cm (C-C) bars on my AM bike. The saddle to bar drop on my AM bike is not, in fact, the same as my road bike. Crazy.

Also, I wasn't the person who mentioned racing. I am not the person who mentioned "Absilon (SIC) and Neff". I simply stated that XC and trail are the same riding, occupied by two, apparently very different sorts of riders. XC, in my mind, is a type of terrain, which also happens to be the name for the racing that happens over that type of terrain. All of the "trail" riders are riding the same trails, but in a very different manner.

And, as I alluded to above, the way that someone rides (or, dare I say it, races) a type of terrain will influence other parts of their riding. I am well aware that I am not as fast as guys riding 6" bikes down certain segments. Similarly, they are aware that they would be faster uphill on a more efficient bike. I'd be faster going down certain segments if I wasn't blowing myself to smithereens on the hill preceeding it, and if I was on my AM bike instead of my 29er HT. If I could hit that 5' drop instead of going around it, why, yes, I woud be faster going down the hill! Amazing. Quite the revelation.

Cue Marc Beaumont (2x DH WC winner) getting beaten by Nino Schurter both uphill AND downhill in a recent GMBN video. No, not a scientific study, but an illustration of my point.


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Has anyone stopped to realize why DH riders have their seat down low? If there was an advantage to a seat at normal riding position they would have their seats there. There is no way in hell you can maneuver a bike down a rock garden and steep terrain (read -20 percent) with a seat jabbing into your lower abdomen. Sorry. Not safe. Not fun. You might be able survive it, but a seat at climbing position does ZERO to actually enhance / aid in steep or technical descents.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I've stopped and considered the fact that I don't ride DH trails, I'm not hucking 40' road gaps nor do I ride bikes with 200mm dual crown forks on XC trails. And they, in the vast majority, used fixed seatposts. Not droppers. 

Given the rate of failure of the dropper seatposts that I've owned (yes, I've owned two, currently have one) there's no way I'd ever use one in a bike race that actually mattered to me. Warranty replacements and quick turnaround are all fine and dandy, but they are useless when you have a seat stuck down and you're 25 miles from home. That's happened on a BRAND NEW Fox DOSS, and twice on a Reverb, one of which was brand new, as a warranty replacement.


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## fdes (Apr 16, 2014)

Here is an interesting one. my bike doesn't allow the seatpost to be inserted very deep (stumpjumper). It came with a dropper, but I had to get the 75mm dropper as anything longer was too tall. The dropper overall length is 330mm. I recently found that the ks lev 100mm is 335mm, so I picked one up and moved the other dropper to my wife's bike.

i have had the new dropper for two weeks, and have broken every downhill PR that I had by 5%! These are all trails that I ride constantly. I can't believe that the extra 25mm would have such an impact, but I can lean it so much better now into the corners.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I wish Spec would come out with a Blacklight in 27.2mm.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Tystevens said:


> Yep, that would appear to be the key information from this thread! Not many will say "yeah, I had one and it sucked, so I dumped it in the bin ..."
> !


I ran one for a season or so on both a HT and an FS, didn't find much use for it (though I tried). Sitting in the parts pile collecting dust now.

I've got hundreds of lift days on DH bikes, and also ride some DJ and BMX, so I'm well aware of the advantages of a dropped seat in certain conditions, but I find for trail riding, I prefer my seat to stay where it is. I might run it a little higher or lower based on where I'm riding, but I don't find any need to move it around constantly while riding.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Travis Bickle said:


> You can have my dropper when you pry it from my cold dead a$$.


Um, no thanks, you can keep it. What the heck's it doing there anyway?

I think it's funny that people reference "speed" or "faster" when they think it supports their argument but then completely dismiss it as irrelevant if it doesn't. Also funny that the fastest riders in the world choose to eschew them (droppers) because they're slow to adopt new technology even though they ride the latest designs, and in many cases prototypes. :skep:

Not an anti-dropper curmudgeon btw, I'll probably have one some day but I won't get it to be faster.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

I was faster on my Dropper, except for the times it failed and I spent all kinds of time fiddling around with it. I took it off to send it back but so far haven't missed it much. Plus, loosing that 3/4 pound or so over my carbon post feels pretty nice on the climbns and I spend a lot more time climbing than I do descending.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Um, no thanks, you can keep it. What the heck's it doing there anyway?
> 
> I think it's funny that people reference "speed" or "faster" when they think it supports their argument but then completely dismiss it as irrelevant if it doesn't. Also funny that the fastest riders in the world choose to eschew them (droppers) because they're slow to adopt new technology even though they ride the latest designs, and in many cases prototypes. :skep:
> 
> Not an anti-dropper curmudgeon btw, I'll probably have one some day but I won't get it to be faster.


While I agree with the sentiment of most of your post, I have to ask, fastest at what? XC riders eschew them, Enduro not so much.

If we accept XC and Enduro happen on different terrain (trail vs AM?) Then the notion of faster becomes a much more legitimate argument, if we're talking about AM/enduro. For all of us who ride more trail oriented, uh, trails and aren't racing, they can also just make the experience more fun.

Since I ride in both, I went with a more all mountain setup since I want my one MTB to cover the aggressive end of my riding.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Um, no thanks, you can keep it. What the heck's it doing there anyway?
> 
> I think it's funny that people reference "speed" or "faster" when they think it supports their argument but then completely dismiss it as irrelevant if it doesn't. Also funny that the fastest riders in the world choose to eschew them (droppers) because they're slow to adopt new technology even though they ride the latest designs, and in many cases prototypes. :skep:
> 
> Not an anti-dropper curmudgeon btw, I'll probably have one some day but I won't get it to be faster.


Faster is one benifit, safer is another more important one.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

"Trail vs AM"? I'm not sure I'm understanding what the difference is? Don't just about all parks, forests, BLM, and other land managers require that we ride on "trails"? What's an AM that you would ride down?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

IPunchCholla said:


> While I agree with the sentiment of most of your post, I have to ask, fastest at what? XC riders eschew them, Enduro not so much.


Yeah, no doubt there a lot of different variations of "fastest". Gravity is a pretty efficient motor though, a pure drop off a cliff would be the fastest of all. I guess my version of fastest would be rides from point A to point A since that's what I do.


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

Had a dropper for a season and now don't really miss it. Am considering another one at this time but I'm not overly enthused about it. Not wanting to add a lot of weight and complexity is part of it. 

I definitely don't want the specter of thinking I have to pick a seatpost and be a d!ck about it along with pick a wheel size and the recently brought to my attention pick a trail direction (downhill yielding to uphill). Can't we all just learn to get along and run what we brung? I don't want to have to be a d!ck about it!


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

The saftey angle is interesting.
I don't think of any parts being "safer" than others or inspiring "safer" riding.
[With the opvious exception of riding something broken ie. cracked frame, cracked seatpost, ...]


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Shayne said:


> The saftey angle is interesting.
> I don't think of any parts being "safer" than others or inspiring "safer" riding.
> [With the opvious exception of riding something broken ie. cracked frame, cracked seatpost, ...]


Lower CG in rock gardens and technical terrain is safer.

A dropper post in it's lowest setting isn't any safer than a regular post that you manually stopped and un-did the QR and lowered it yourself. It's just that with a dropper you never had to stop, you did it in one quick motion of your thumb while you were rolling along at full speed.


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm not a speed demon on the trails, and my mountain biking skills are far from top-notch. I think I'm safer using a dropper simply because it lets me get into a position that allows me more margin of error.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

"Safer" meaning it's safer to go into something with the seat down, legs bent, arms relaxed with your weight driving through your bottom bracket rather than having your arms and legs locked straight cause you are running your seat "efficiently".


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

So more of a peace of mind thing.
Check.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Thustlewhumber said:


> "Safer" meaning it's safer to go into something with the seat down, legs bent, arms relaxed with your weight driving through your bottom bracket rather than having your arms and legs locked straight cause you are running your seat "efficiently".


arms and legs locked straight ? LOL whoever rides like this
'that guy' doesn't know jack about bike setup if that is the case.

I run no dropper and my efficiency is pretty tops and my trail handling kung-fu is far from shabby. legs locked arms locked who is that clown ?

RE: legs bent, arms relaxed with your weight driving through your bottom bracket

yup that is me with my non-dropper, efficient position seat, when I hit the chundery bits or otherwise need to get arse off saddle.

if there is a steep with switchbacks of doom, behind the saddle I go. if it is still too much I get off and run it downhill. dont matta us. I don't seek DH I do XC which means a whole lotta everything

yes absolutely 100% if you want to stunt around like seen in 'road bike party' or do jumps spins flips...you have a low or no seat. that is fine, use a dropper. but making any blanket statement droppers are faster is mighty wrong, there are about a million old-timers who can school you pretty quick on how incorrect that is


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

I've got my old Hite Rite and modern dropper. Quite an improvement as far as speed because now it's no stopping at all.

I remember when neon paint made bikes faster. Will modern neon paint be same amount of improvement? Do I need to find arguments about exactly which neon before I commit to a plastic bike?


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Um, no thanks, you can keep it. What the heck's it doing there anyway?
> 
> I think it's funny that people reference "speed" or "faster" when they think it supports their argument but then completely dismiss it as irrelevant if it doesn't. Also funny that the fastest riders in the world choose to eschew them (droppers) because they're slow to adopt new technology even though they ride the latest designs, and in many cases prototypes. :skep:
> 
> Not an anti-dropper curmudgeon btw, I'll probably have one some day but I won't get it to be faster.


The higher speed is a byproduct of the additional confidence that lowering your seat provides. Easier is the way I like to think about it. Even if I'm just cruising along, my comfort level is boosted by dropping my post for a corner or descent section because I can immediately feel the available area for me to move around the bike has substantially increased. It becomes easier to shift my weight or move the bike in ways that is very difficult to do with a fully extended seatpost.

Can you shift tour weight around without a dropper? Of course, we've all been doing it for years. But, we've also discovered that you can do it better and easier with a dropper.

If you want to meander around the trails, ride your brakes down gentle descents and avoid steep descents, no, you won't benefit from one. But that's not the topic of this conversation.

As far as XC racers go, they don't even bother fixing flats and the possibly of a malfunction ruining their race, which is completely unjustified considering the amount of care their bikes get, is probably their rationale. That and the the trend of avoiding new technology.

Also, massive lulz to the idea that you can feel less than a pound of weight in a seatpost. That's like saying that you can feel the difference while riding with an additional water bottle. There is plenty of research that has been done that shows that small changes in weight creates imperceptible differences.

If you want to say that you don't want to spend $3-400, or that you just want to meander around and enjoy the scenery, that's fine, and nobody is disagreeing with your choices. But the thread is about if dropper posts are faster, and your comments are completely off topic.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Well there you go, Joe Breeze himself has settled it.......right there in his ad for the original. 

It's faster AND safer!


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

richde said:


> Also, massive lulz to the idea that you can feel less than a pound of weight in a seatpost. That's like saying that you can feel the difference while riding with an additional water bottle. There is plenty of research that has been done that shows that small changes in weight creates imperceptible differences.


 you failed physics.

racing or otherwise 'going fast' comes down to: Watts per kilogram. that dropper is slowing you down all the times it is in the up 'normal position' vs something lighter.
full stop, you can't get around the physics of watts per kilogram

if your net start to finish times are faster with a dropper because it allows that much more corner or downhill speed then use it.

if not, it is wasted energy dragging it around all them other times

no I am not a weight weenie, but every gram counts.

droppers are nice but not needed for most riding


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

This thread is ridiculous, and I use a dropper. 

Given the same bike same rider same trail same time of day same day same rest same food intake. 

Same same same same same same same same......

Give me a break there is no way of comparing the two.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Given the same bike same rider same trail same time of day same day same rest same food intake.
> 
> Same same same same same same same same......
> 
> Give me a break there is no way of comparing the two.


For me, it's the difference between riding down a section and walking down.

Although after 20 times going down with the dropper dropped, I might have the confidence to do it un-dropped.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

richde said:


> If you want to meander around the trails, ride your brakes down gentle descents and avoid steep descents, no, you won't benefit from one.


Please. It's all been done many times just as steep and fast by people without dropper posts than it is being done now by the majority of people with them.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

My comments really are this:

I am a retro grouch -and- rarely run into sections I would consider lower seat might help. for those I get back and get low


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

127.0.0.1 said:


> you failed physics.
> 
> racing or otherwise 'going fast' comes down to: Watts per kilogram. that dropper is slowing you down all the times it is in the up 'normal position' vs something lighter.
> full stop, you can't get around the physics of watts per kilogram
> ...


You're right, but it also depends on format/terrain. Look at the bike checks for EWS vs WC XC.

A dropper costs me at most 300 grams out of my 94,440 gram total riding weight. I don't think it is what is making me slow.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

net wurker said:


> Well there you go, Joe Breeze himself has settled it.......right there in his ad for the original.
> 
> It's faster AND safer!


I know that - for me it was settled in the in the early 1980s.

It's changing topic but now I need to know about neon paint. Just like the Hite Rite compared to my Thomson dropper, will there be same sort of boost I get with modern dropper if I get me some 2015 or 2016 model chartreuse or fuchsia?


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> Please. It's all been done many times just as steep and fast by people without dropper posts than it is being done now by the majority of people with them.


You forgot to insert "faster and easier" in there. A point which I made in my post that you deleted.



IPunchCholla said:


> You're right, but it also depends on format/terrain. Look at the bike checks for EWS vs WC XC.
> 
> A dropper costs me at most 300 grams out of my 94,440 gram total riding weight. I don't think it is what is making me slow.


People seem to forget that the bike isn't riding itself and fail to add their own weight in their calculations.

Note that I said "perceptible."

How much time does extra weight cost on Alpe d?Huez?

They came up with a two minute difference over a 50 minute climb with an additional 4ish lbs. If you're talking about less than a quarter of the weight, that's imperceptible unless you're already at peak fitness and can eliminate the day-to-day ups and downs of your performance, and climbing performance is the only thing you're worrying about. If that were a mountain bike, you'd also have to take the additional speed that you'd carry on a downhill into account...and probably come out even, but more comfortable on the downhills and less likely to crash due to the increased safety margin. Because nothing slows you down quite like crashing.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

SDMTB'er said:


> Has anyone stopped to realize why DH riders have their seat down low?.


Because they don't have to actually pedal their bicycles very much?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richde said:


> .........................................................................................
> If you want to say that you don't want to spend $3-400, or that you just want to meander around and enjoy the scenery, that's fine, and nobody is disagreeing with your choices. But the thread is about if dropper posts are faster, and your comments are completely off topic.


I'm sorry, you completely misunderstood my post. Yours is meandering.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Shayne said:


> So more of a peace of mind thing.
> Check.


Less skin left on the ground.


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

My dropper post is certainly faster for me. I drop it before most of the very steep and long descents I read here in the Grand State of Confusion. It's faster because I used to have to get off the bike and lower the seat before steep descents. 

Years ago I read about lowering the seat here on MTBR and tried it. If your favorite trails have some real steep and tough trails, you'd perhaps like the lower descent position.

By the way, I have a total of 100mm of drop (specialized command blacklight) and actually find that a little much. The 75mm might have been better. I would measure carefully where you like the up and down positions before buying.


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> Cue Marc Beaumont (2x DH WC winner) getting beaten by Nino Schurter both uphill AND downhill in a recent GMBN video. No, not a scientific study, but an illustration of my point.


The video where Marc borrowed a hardtail XC bike that happened to be available while Nino was on his personal fully dialed full suspension XC bike. And still only won by 1-3 seconds on the downhill sections. Yeah, you could say that was pretty unscientific.

Getting back on topic, like many other things in mountain biking, it depends. It depends on the rider, terrain, riding style, preferences, and so on. Some people have a rather static technique where they stand in more or less the same position whether they have the seat up or down, others will use every inch of free space that a lowered saddle allows for. Some trails don't really benefit from a dropped seat, others do. Depends on my mood as well, if I'm just out for an easy cruise on my local trails I grab the nice light bike without the dropper post. If I feel like getting rowdy I grab the enduro bike with the dropper.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

aerius said:


> The video where Marc borrowed a hardtail XC bike that happened to be available while Nino was on his personal fully dialed full suspension XC bike. And still only won by 1-3 seconds on the downhill sections. Yeah, you could say that was pretty unscientific.
> 
> Getting back on topic, like many other things in mountain biking, it depends. It depends on the rider, terrain, riding style, preferences, and so on. Some people have a rather static technique where they stand in more or less the same position whether they have the seat up or down, others will use every inch of free space that a lowered saddle allows for. Some trails don't really benefit from a dropped seat, others do. Depends on my mood as well, if I'm just out for an easy cruise on my local trails I grab the nice light bike without the dropper post. If I feel like getting rowdy I grab the enduro bike with the dropper.


Marc chose to ride that bike. He stated as much. Over his Genius.

And, 1-3 seconds, over downhill sections of ~30 seconds, adds up. That's 5-10%.

Also, don't ignore the fact that Nino beat him by almost 20% for the measured lap. And averaged 11:08 per lap, for 8 laps, compared to Marc's one full gas lap in the mid-13s, after a practice lap.


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## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

This thread is difficult to read because it is obvious there is so much misinformation out there about correct body position while riding a bike.

People keep talking about how they have no trouble getting behind their saddle for descents. Well, you dont want to be behind your saddle, you want to be low! You are forced to get behind your saddle in order to get low because it is in the way.

This issue with this is that getting low behind your saddle, throws all of your weight on the bike off. You cant properly weight your front end, you cant be dynamic through a corner, you cant brake properly, and you certainly cannot pump the bike.

Having a dropper post allows you to be low, in the correct location on a bike. It opens up this huge area for your hips to move around in. For those of you who don't know, your hips are what you ride your bike with; they are your center of gravity, they are you balance (and counter balance), they are how you generate power, they are how you pump your bike, they are how you corner your bike. Giving your hips more room to operate, can do nothing but provide an improvement for your riding.

Yes, you dont need one, in the sense you cant ride a bike without one, but they improve your ability, technique, and "fun'ess" on a bike. Those of you who have tried one, and it changed nothing, well you probably didn't spend enough time where your ingrained riding habits have not yet adapted to the new movements your body can make to take advantage of the benefits a dropper provides you with. 

So many people ride a bike and look stiff as a board, standing straight up, straight armed, and just pedal and roll. Everyone needs to loosen up their body, be relaxed, and move around....having a dropper allows this. 

I'll give it to you if you don't ride trails with many technical features, hard cornering, or varying elevation...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

A friend that I often ride with uses a dropper (loves it) and flat pedals. I use a regular seatpost and clipless pedals.

We ride the same trails, get back to the car at the same time, and have the same stupid grin on our faces. We talk shop but the subject of droppers (or clipless) doesn't seem to come up much.

_How is that possible?_


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## MikeDee (Nov 17, 2004)

I rode a Hite-Rite back in the day. There were some precursor dropper posts out there too (one from Suntour). Then, they fell out of fashion when people figured out that the they could get behind their saddles or figured out what the seat point quick release was for. Now we have better, but boat anchorish dropper posts. I don't need such a contraption for my riding, but could see the utility if I were into enduro type riding.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Personally, I totally understand the pros/cons of my saddle being low/high.
For general trail riding though, I prefer my seat stay where it is; I interface with it with my thighs quite a bit and I personally find having it in a predictable spot helps me more than having it a few inches lower. I think maybe those who don't have a lot of experience on steep and techy terrain probably will think there is more of a need to get 'behind the seat' than there really is given the majority of the terrain most ride regularly.

If I were riding somewhere with a lot of large drops/jumps/extended very steep sections mixed in, I might find more use for a dropper. Having spent a ton of time riding much nastier stuff in the past than I typically mess with these days, I rarely find anything outside of lift-serviced trails that I really feel any need to adjust my seat.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> A friend that I often ride with uses a dropper (loves it) and flat pedals. I use a regular seatpost and clipless pedals.
> 
> We ride the same trails, get back to the car at the same time, and have the same stupid grin on our faces. We talk shop but the subject of droppers (or clipless) doesn't seem to come up much.
> 
> _How is that possible?_


Well, since I have never ridden with you, and you have been riding for about 25 years longer than me, I feel that gives me the authority to state that you're doing it wrong.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I was a relatively late adopter (2 years ago). My current bike is now my third bike with one (all Reverbs). I rode last night and seamlessly switched my seat height probably 50 or more times. 

When my seat is high and all of a sudden I find myself in the gnar, it's more than a little sketchy. Sure, I can still ride through it, but anything over 3/4 speed and it could be a bit of a short soiling experience. And it equally sucks when my seat is down when a steep pitch appears. Being able to adjust my seat height on the fly has not only made me a completely different rider in terms of speed and ability, but it has made my rides immensely more enjoyable as a result.

Everyone is different but for me, the dropper has proven to be THE number one component change in the past 5 years which has been responsible for the biggest improvement in my riding skills. There is just no doubt about it. Wide bar, short stem is second, and I am thinking likely a distant second, relatively speaking.

Again, that's me. Not saying it's the same for everyone (and based on some of the posts above, either some are just plain stubborn or a dropper is simply not effective for them given their bike, trails, riding style, etc.).


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

IPunchCholla said:


> Well, since I have never ridden with you, and you have been riding for about 25 years longer than me, I feel that gives me the authority to state that you're doing it wrong.


Now you're getting the hang of this mtbr business!


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Droppers are where suspension used to be, heavy sometimes problematic, but still a game changer. They will get lighter and more reliable. My Pike weighs slightly more than my old Judy XC you can't compare their performance as forks, it is night and day. 

As a side note, where would mountain biking be if there was no rolling down a hill, any hill? Mountain biking was born going down and it's the part that makes people laugh and grin. Doesn't matter how big or steep. If riding doesn't make you laugh out loud you are probably doing it wrong.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Travis Bickle said:


> Droppers are where suspension used to be, heavy sometimes problematic, but still a game changer. They will get lighter and more reliable. My Pike weighs slightly more than my old Judy XC you can't compare their performance as forks, it is night and day.
> 
> As a side note, where would mountain biking be if there was no rolling down a hill, any hill? Mountain biking was born going down and it's the part that makes people laugh and grin. Doesn't matter how big or steep. If riding doesn't make you laugh out loud you are probably doing it wrong.


I think there is a ton of fun Mountain Biking where there is little to no elevation change. You can still have flow. There is a place I use to ride near Albany called Luther State Forest that was the best flat trail I have rode.

At one point in time had all the Koms there using a droppers. Heck I wonder if Le Duke has ever ridden there......


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Word. Luther is awesome.

My favorite after work/school ride is a combo of rock covered trails and fast/flowy. Brutal, Pisgah-like hills on the way out, and a fast, drifty return along river bottom trails.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> Word. Luther is awesome.
> 
> My favorite after work/school ride is a combo of rock covered trails and fast/flowy. Brutal, Pisgah-like hills on the way out, and a fast, drifty return along river bottom trails.


curious I take it you did not use strava when you rode at Luther eh?

So what interesting we finally have some common ground here, I rode luther tons mostly because the summer I lived in New York was my girlfriend's first summer mountain biking but I had the KOM(many are still top 3s) at Luther on a slack hardtail with a High Roller 2 front tire/Ikon rear tire 67 degree head angle, 16.3 stays and a dropper post. The bike still is overkill for Luther but I did use the dropper to set those KOMs. Luther is the most mellow place I have ever rode, and I still found a dropper post was faster there at least with my bike that basically does not steer and only carves.

With that said mellow in this case does not mean unfun, and there some pretty cool alternative line there and we just visited on a road trip last month and there were couple really cool gaps jumps built up around the place.


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## voghan (Aug 18, 2014)

Here is a video that goes through the benefits of using a dropper post on XC trails. I really think he hits the nail on the head by asking when do you really need that seat all the way up?


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

I like many rode for years without a dropper. I hated riding with the saddle low, I liked knowing where the bike was by the saddle on my thigh....I also sucked. I thought sod it I am going to try it, and it took time to feel "normal" without the saddle up. I still suck....but at the age of 38 I am riding bigger stuff and riding general trails stuff (not necessarily down hill) better, more comfortably and having more fun than when I was 20....I still suck....but a lot less so.

People saying they can get behind the saddle just fine makes me smile.....guess what....strangly my confidence is much higher now as my front wheel has grip now...now I am not way back and worrying if I am going to tangle my junk on the back of the saddle getting forward again


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

telemike said:


> My dropper post is certainly faster for me. I drop it before most of the very steep and long descents I read here in the Grand State of Confusion. It's faster because I used to have to get off the bike and lower the seat before steep descents.
> 
> Years ago I read about lowering the seat here on MTBR and tried it. If your favorite trails have some real steep and tough trails, you'd perhaps like the lower descent position.
> 
> By the way, I have a total of 100mm of drop (specialized command blacklight) and actually find that a little much. The 75mm might have been better. I would measure carefully where you like the up and down positions before buying.


Posts with infinite positions from the all the way down position to all the way up for climbing is where it's at. I don't know why anyone would buy one of these posts that have increment positions. I know some designs do and if I were in the market for one again I'd definitely make sure it's an infinite position post.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm running Command Post Backlight and TMARS posts, both with 3 positions. I hated using an infinite adjust one.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

BushwackerinPA said:


> curious I take it you did not use strava when you rode at Luther eh?
> 
> So what interesting we finally have some common ground here, I rode luther tons mostly because the summer I lived in New York was my girlfriend's first summer mountain biking but I had the KOM(many are still top 3s) at Luther on a slack hardtail with a High Roller 2 front tire/Ikon rear tire 67 degree head angle, 16.3 stays and a dropper post. The bike still is overkill for Luther but I did use the dropper to set those KOMs. Luther is the most mellow place I have ever rode, and I still found a dropper post was faster there at least with my bike that basically does not steer and only carves.
> 
> With that said mellow in this case does not mean unfun, and there some pretty cool alternative line there and we just visited on a road trip last month and there were couple really cool gaps jumps built up around the place.


I use Strava like once a week, if that. I generally use it when riding with friends, or to find new trails, or to find places I've ridden before, were awesome, and I want to ride again. Basically it serves as my own mapping service, and I keep a little notebook of info about those rides that I can cross-reference with Strava.

I only have 35 rides on Strava this year, but I've only missed a handful of days on the bike.


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

NordieBoy said:


> I'm running Command Post Backlight and TMARS posts, both with 3 positions. I hated using an infinite adjust one.


I don't mind having 3 positions, either -- down, 2/3, and up. Down is great for obvious stuff, up for climbing, and 2/3 is great for 'cruising' where I'm up and down off the saddle, pedaling, dealing with obstacles, etc. I mean, I wouldn't not buy an infinite adjustment post. But I also like the body memory of having the post at 3 specific spots.

Actually, the middle position is one of the great benefits of the dropper that I didn't anticipate; this is explained in the video. Before dropper post, I was pretty much all the way up or down -- I never really rode in the 2/3 position. Being able to put it at that position on sections where I'm pedaling quite a bit but still moving fact and dealing w/ rocks, logs and such has really improved my riding and bike handling. Before, I'd negotiate those sections probably in the top position, and have to deal with the seat in my way.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> I'm running Command Post Backlight and TMARS posts, both with 3 positions. I hated using an infinite adjust one.


You get used to the way either one works. I have a blacklight post as well, and the main benefit is the ease in setting the intermediate position. I know what I'm going to get and it does it every time. Much further than a couple inches down, the post might as well be all they way down anyways. I seriously doubt people are thinking, "hmm, in these conditions -3" is more suitable than -5"." It's either up, slightly down or all the way down.

Plus the blacklight was significantly cheaper than most other options, even at full retail at a Specialized dealer.

Over the last year or so, I've started using the full down position more often, which completely removes any difference between the two systems. Except price, naturally.

3 years later and my original blacklight is still going strong after a few very simple 10 minute tool free disassembly, cleaning and lubing sessions. Air pressure, seal friction and mechanical stops are far easier to deal with than hydraulic cartridges.


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

It is not a problem at all, and if you are comfortable with what you have, stick with it. As to the people who say you are slower, take it with a grain of salt. Unless you are on truly nasty and steep terrain, a dropper is not needed. I have a killer dropper on my Remedy and I never drop it, yet I am faster on descents than almost anyone I know. Descending is about the rider not the bike. My buddy was passing guys on full DH rigs in Big Bear, on his 29er single speed hardtail.


jcd46 said:


> Well, I was going to ask this on a new thread, but I think I can do it on this one.
> 
> I never lower my saddle for descent, is it a Cardinal Sin? I know you are "supposed" to, but if I'm comfortable is it a problem? It sounds like a dumb question when I write it, but on my ride today I was thinking about this.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

SprSonik said:


> It is not a problem at all, and if you are comfortable with what you have, stick with it. As to the people who say you are slower, take it with a grain of salt. Unless you are on truly nasty and steep terrain, a dropper is not needed. I have a killer dropper on my Remedy and I never drop it, yet I am faster on descents than almost anyone I know. Descending is about the rider not the bike. My buddy was passing guys on full DH rigs in Big Bear, on his 29er single speed hardtail.


That's the bike vs rider thing at work, unless you're going to suggest that a SS 29er HT is superior to DH bikes in a DH environment.

Droppers improve your cornering and descending. If you can do it really well without one, you could do it even better with one.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

richde said:


> Droppers improve your cornering and descending.


SKILL is what improves your cornering and descending.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

slapheadmofo said:


> SKILL is what improves your cornering and descending.


Cool.

I'm gonna start calling my dropper remote the "Skill Button".


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> A friend that I often ride with uses a dropper (loves it) and flat pedals. I use a regular seatpost and clipless pedals.
> 
> We ride the same trails, get back to the car at the same time, and have the same stupid grin on our faces. We talk shop but the subject of droppers (or clipless) doesn't seem to come up much.
> 
> _How is that possible?_


Well said, what works for someone else doesn't necessarily work for you or me to get the same results. At 6' 5", I don't have much of an issue moving the bike around underneath me in technical terrain with the saddle in my ideal pedaling position. Now if I was 5' 6", I may be singing a different tune. Also, I have test rode bikes with dropper posts, and found the constant fiddling with seat height distracting and annoying, which made me less confident when riding in techie terrain.


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## tswitz1234 (Jul 21, 2008)

LaXCarp said:


> This thread is difficult to read because it is obvious there is so much misinformation out there about correct body position while riding a bike.
> 
> People keep talking about how they have no trouble getting behind their saddle for descents. Well, you dont want to be behind your saddle, you want to be low! You are forced to get behind your saddle in order to get low because it is in the way.
> 
> ...


This. Coming from 20+ years on hard tails, I never had a problem getting back to clear obstacles, etc. However, the dropper allowed me to get low, drop the heels, pump through corners, jump, etc - something critical on a full squish, and even more important on a 29er, where you also need extra room for hip angulation, etc. Nothing has transformed my riding more quickly than the dropper post.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Honestly, if you want faster, get some tires. My dropper post increased my fun by a factor of 10. I am old, fat, and slow. But the dropper is fun and makes me feel like Brian Lopes (but I still look like Homer Simpson). Get it for the fun not for speed.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Yep. Fun and confidence.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm old, cranky, but love speed. I scare myself a bit every ride andI was so pumped full of adrenaline last night I had to stay up a couple of hour later than normal. Dropper post, knee and elbow pads every ride. I only notice the flowers on the way up.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> SKILL is what improves your cornering and descending.


If you can do it really well without one, you could do it even better with one.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

richde said:


> If you can do it really well without one, you could do it even better with one.


I tried. I found it little more than a distraction the vast majority of the time. YMMV.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

I think I'm doing dropper post wrong.

I don't drop my seat for the descents, I raise my seat for the climbs. (and the occasional long flat pedal-y section)

I need a "riser post".


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

net wurker said:


> I think I'm doing dropper post wrong.
> 
> I don't drop my seat for the descents, I raise my seat for the climbs. (and the occasional long flat pedal-y section)
> 
> I need a "riser post".


:nono:Young feller I think you're doing it all wrong.


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## Dgage (Aug 20, 2006)

I don't care how slow I am...I'm in the forest, nice day, away from everyone and everthing..why do I want to get back to civilization any faster?


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Dgage said:


> I don't care how slow I am...I'm in the forest, nice day, away from everyone and everthing..why do I want to get back to civilization any faster?


if you can do certain things better you might save some energy and be able to stay out there longer.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Flucod said:


> I personally use a dropper post because it is fun (like hitting a 4 ft drop), not for any safety or other things. For XC racing it would not be on the bike. In my field the the top 5 or 6 guys are separated by less then 30 seconds and on a typical XC course I am slower with it. It appears that many of the users have poor basic MTB skills and need a crutch to go fast or feel safe.


I agree, I learned to ride without one years ago. After 8 years without one I slapped one on my bike. And after 7 years with one I find that I hardly ever use it. I've been so used to maneuvering around the bike with the saddle up that by the time I realize I could have dropped it for a particular decent I've already ripped down and through the section. A crutch like device you bet.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Flucod said:


> I personally use a dropper post because it is fun (like hitting a 4 ft drop), not for any safety or other things. For XC racing it would not be on the bike. In my field the the top 5 or 6 guys are separated by less then 30 seconds and on a typical XC course I am slower with it. It appears that many of the users have poor basic MTB skills and need a crutch to go fast or feel safe.


are you sure you are slower with an extra .5lb of weight on your bike?

its not a crutch if you can actually go faster than just about anyone with one. I wonder how many of you who keep saying its crutch like device are actually in the top 5 of actually tough technical DH, or any DH at all on Strava and I wonder how many can KOM climbs on the same ride.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I agree, I learned to ride without one years ago. After 8 years without one I slapped one on my bike. And after 7 years with one I find that I hardly ever use it. I've been so used to maneuvering around the bike with the saddle up that by the time I realize I could have dropped it for a particular decent I've already ripped down and through the section. A crutch like device you bet.


What on a mountain bike is not a crutch. If you don't like mechanical advantage the trail running barefoot is for you.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Travis Bickle said:


> What on a mountain bike is not a crutch. If you don't like mechanical advantage the trail running barefoot is for you.


My reference was meant for those that solely rely on it. But as stated every advancement eventually becomes a crutch.

Which brings to mind we don't have a crutch thread yet.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> are you sure you are slower with an extra .5lb of weight on your bike?
> 
> its not a crutch if you can actually go faster than just about anyone with one. I wonder how many of you who keep saying its crutch like device are actually in the top 5 of actually tough technical DH, or any DH at all on Strava and I wonder how many can KOM climbs on the same ride.


I personally could care less about Strava or racing in general. I did do some DH racing and a ton of lift riding for fun, all in New England and much of it in the days before 'flow', when it was all about steep and techy. I just rarely run into anything while riding XC that makes me feel I need to make adjustments to my bike. I did find I used it a little more on my HT than on my FS, but mainly as a 'riser' post as noted above, just to get an extra inch or so of seat height for longer climbs.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

II


Flucod said:


> I personally use a dropper post because it is fun (like hitting a 4 ft drop), not for any safety or other things. For XC racing it would not be on the bike. In my field the the top 5 or 6 guys are separated by less then 30 seconds and on a typical XC course I am slower with it. It appears that many of the users have poor basic MTB skills and need a crutch to go fast or feel safe.


While I certainly have poor mountain bike skills, I wouldn't say everyone who uses a dropper is trying to make up for lack of skills. Again just look at what the guys in the EWS are running. Jared Graves doesn't strike me as unskilled.

Are they for everybody? Clearly not. But a whole bunch of people of all skill levels believe they help their riding.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> I personally could care less about Strava or racing in general. I did do some DH racing and a ton of lift riding for fun, all in New England and much of it in the days before 'flow', when it was all about steep and techy. I just rarely run into anything while riding XC that makes me feel I need to make adjustments to my bike. I did find I used it a little more on my HT than on my FS, but mainly as a 'riser' post as noted above, just to get an extra inch or so of seat height for longer climbs.


so its not that I really care about strava.... but its does provide feedback on if your setup are faster or slower on certain trails.

Just because you do not feel the need does nt mean you will not be able to ride stuff faster with a seat dropped down low.

I did my own testing last year usinga GPS on local afterwork trail here. Called bear's it is by mean "technical" it is fairly rough and its for sure faster to double some of the humps on the trail.

for reference here is video of the trail.






I am 30-40 seconds faster on it with my seat post dropper then with my seat up. Say I suck and can not ride or need a crutch all you want. but I am fast down that trail. Once held KOM currently 3rd. 9 outta of the top 10 guys for sure had droppers. I bet if you at the majority of descents out there the story would be the same.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

BushwackerinPA said:


> ...I am 30-40 seconds faster on it with my seat post dropper then with my seat up...


Me too, as well as every single person I ride with.

I suppose it is a crutch in the same sense as full, or even front suspension is. I wouldn't expect to be able to ride nearly as fast on the same trails on a rigid as on a hardtail, let alone a full suspension. Not sure what the crutch or skill comments have to do with anything, except substantiate the exact point being debated - that droppers assist with speed (in addition to confidence and fun and everything else that has been cited).


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I am 30-40 seconds faster on it with my seat post dropper then with my seat up.


So all this says to me is when you are using your dropper post you'll be at the trailhead eating a PB&J sandwich while the competition without a dropper post is still pedaling away.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Show me the same people, on the same bikes, getting a KOM on a net zero, climb-descend loop. 

I think you'll find the results a bit....different. 

I'm guessing there is a correlation between 4" bikes rolling XC tires with standard posts. And guys on 6" bikes on DH tires with droppers. And a difference in their overall focus.

As I've said previously, I own a dropper. Used to own another. I even use it on my XC HT sometimes. My problem with them isn't the weight; it's the fact that (IME), the are the least reliable piece of equipment on a bike. 

A half pound isn't much. It's the fact the seat post dies, leaks, and gets stuck down. I don't ride SS; I don't stand much when I climb. A seat getting stuck in the down position would be a disaster in a bike race, for me. And, it's happened on enough of my rides (3x now) that I'm hesitant to use them for anything of consequence. Or training for anything of consequence.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

That is some bad luck with droppers. The worst that has happened to me is a Reverb that lost about a 1/4" of height. My buddy has been riding a Gravity Dropper for at least 3 years with no issues and IME they are pretty reliable. They will get better over time like everything else has.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Travis Bickle said:


> That is some bad luck with droppers. The worst that has happened to me is a Reverb that lost about a 1/4" of height. My buddy has been riding a Gravity Dropper for at least 3 years with no issues and IME they are pretty reliable. They will get better over time like everything else has.


I know. I LIKE DROPPERS. They're great. While they work.

I don't understand how these things fail under my 145lb corpse.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Le Duke said:


> I know. I LIKE DROPPERS. They're great. While they work.
> 
> I don't understand how these things fail under my 145lb corpse.


I'm 205# to 210# and have been on the same CB Joplin remote since 08' without issue. It's never even been serviced. But of course I hardly ever use it for it's intended purpose. I think most failures happen from riders that use them numerous times on every ride.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

I've sent my Thompson in twice to get repaired. Those days I didn't have it were dark days indeed... Even though they are overpriced, under-reliable, super heavy - I still refuse to ride a bike without one.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> Show me the same people, on the same bikes, getting a KOM on a net zero, climb-descend loop.
> 
> I think you'll find the results a bit....different.
> 
> ...


https://www.strava.com/activities/75021943/segments/1490375765

I am the KOM and it was set on a 140mm front travel new school hardtail SS with a dropper. DHF front tire/ Ikon Rear tire. 27 ish lb. 2nd place is a pro roadie, MTB, and cross rider like its his day job, and 5th place is pro DH rider again its his actual day job to MTB. Dillon(2nd) is a stronger pedaler than me and was not using a dropper, and ALLaire is way stronger decender and was using a 6 by 6 inch bike with dropper.

I have video of the descent as well if you want to see the trail. Again not super technical but you can go much faster by being able to drop you seat. Allaire has the fastest descent time on a 6 x 6 bike with a dropper, I am 20 second back on my All mountain Single Speed.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> Say I suck and can not ride or need a crutch all you want. but I am fast down that trail.


Never said anything like that, nor would I. Just saying I personally don't find much use for a dropper. Definitely wouldn't on a basically smooth and non-tech trail as shown in the video. I do have a number of few-hundred-foot elevation changes on my local trails and I definitely ride with guys that like to drop their seat for the downs and swear by their droppers for that purpose, but they don't seem to make much difference in who's faster overall.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> ...I definitely ride with guys that like to drop their seat for the downs and swear by their droppers for that purpose, but they don't seem to make much difference in who's faster overall.


Not trying to be an a-hole, but what does that establish? The guys without the droppers may be able to ride SS rigids without droppers and smoke everyone else in the process, simply because they are superior riders. The issue is, does a dropper help most people ride faster. I don't think much is established comparing apples to oranges. Not suggesting it would occur in every case, but I would bet that at least some of those front runners in your group could be _even faster_ with a dropper.

It freaks me out that this is even controversial. When I am on a trail and hit some gnar while perched way up high in the clouds with my dropper fully extended, I wonder wtf about this thread.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Yea, I can't believe that their are riders who think I a dropper doesn't help make you faster. The area I'm in on Vancouver Island droppers are almost universal and on our trails not lowering your saddle is slow and dangerous. I have been mtbing all over and some places I wouldn't use it very often but it would still be handy occasionally. It is something that takes time to learn, but once you do it's as natural as shifting.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Travis Bickle said:


> Yea, I can't believe that their are riders who think I a dropper doesn't help make you faster. *The area I'm in on Vancouver Island droppers are almost universal and on our trails not lowering your saddle is slow and dangerous. I have been mtbing all over and some places I wouldn't use it very often but it would still be handy occasionally. It is something that takes time to learn, but once you do it's as natural as shifting.*


*Thread answered.*


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

For those who have ridden in St. George.

https://www.strava.com/segments/6537785

Top three times done with straight post. Riders 2 and 3 are WC pros, #1 is just some hack.

I just finished single track 6 (a must do race BTW), used a dropper for the race. Would have been faster without it. But man, on some sections the dropper was a lot of fun.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

LMN said:


> For those who have ridden in St. George.
> 
> https://www.strava.com/segments/6537785
> 
> ...


Are you trying to say these WC riders don't think they would be faster with a dropper?

Perhaps you should direct them to this thread?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Zowie said:


> Are you trying to say these WC riders don't think they would be faster with a dropper?
> 
> Perhaps you should direct them to this thread?


Haven't you heard? WC mtb riders are slow to adopt new technology, this thread would be super helpful to them!


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

LMN said:


> For those who have ridden in St. George.
> 
> https://www.strava.com/segments/6537785
> 
> ...


How much faster without it? A dropper accounts for 300 grams of my 90,440 gram total riding weight. This comes out to 12 seconds for every hour spent climbing. So twelve seconds is what you have to make up for on the decent. On the trails I ride their are several A lines (drops, strip rough rock gardens) that I wouldn't ride with my seat up, plus a whole lot of corners I wouldn't be able to take as fast. I'm guessing I save more than the 12 seconds I lose.

But really for me the while faster discussion is a bit silly. The margins are so small as to be meaningless to me since I don't race. Dropper posts let me ride stuff I wouldn't otherwise try, letting my beginner-are, improve.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Travis Bickle said:


> ...It is something that takes time to learn, but once you do it's as natural as shifting.


The only gloss I would put on this is that for me personally, with a Reverb at least, it makes a difference where the plunger button is positioned in terms of learning curve/ease of use. Right side of the bar (like on my Ransom) is the worst - dropper, rear brake and shifter is just too much **** going on for my simple little brain. Left side UNDER the bar (like on my daughter's Process) is best in my view. I went with left side OVER the bar on my Range only because my bike is all SRAM - the Matchmaker cleaned things up beautifully. I still see lots of guys running the plunger on the right, and most with 1x's. I have no idea why. None.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

LMN said:


> For those who have ridden in St. George.
> 
> https://www.strava.com/segments/6537785
> 
> Top three times done with straight post. Riders 2 and 3 are WC pros, #1 is just some hack...


If that's the Hurricane Utah area, I am headed there third week of September. I'm not intending on revealing how I fare against the local KOMs though. LOL.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

So I am browsing through some old mtb pics and I came across this one from 2012. 2011 Rumblefish with 3x10, narrow bars, ergon grips (with bar ends!), a 110mm stem, and NO dropper. If you had told me then that I needed 1x, wide bars, short stem, and a dropper to be a better rider - I would have told you to get bent, I am a good enough rider not to need all that crap, and that YOU suck because you need all that to ride.

Fast forward to now and I have 1x, 800mm bars, 40mm stem, and a dropper. Did I make it around the trail ok before all this? - Yep. However, I am a HELL of a lot faster now, and I am having a lot more fun riding things I would have never dreamed I could.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

mtnbkrmike said:


> The only gloss I would put on this is that for me personally, with a Reverb at least, it makes a difference where the plunger button is positioned in terms of learning curve/ease of use. Right side of the bar (like on my Ransom) is the worst - dropper, rear brake and shifter is just too much **** going on for my simple little brain. Left side UNDER the bar (like on my daughter's Process) is best in my view. I went with left side OVER the bar on my Range only because my bike is all SRAM - the Matchmaker cleaned things up beautifully. I still see lots of guys running the plunger on the right, and most with 1x's. I have no idea why. None.


yep right side lever mounted under the bar on the left side is the only way I can reach it. My thumbs are to small and matchmakers do not work with them.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

BushwackerinPA said:


> The thing is World Cup racers are couple years behind what will make them faster all the time. At one point in time 29er were dominating XC races in america but the WC was still being done almost entirely on 26ers. Does nt mean 26er were faster than 29er then it just means WC riders are more conservative with their setups.
> 
> The samething has happened several times
> 
> ...


I think that it is easy to forget that the top pros are normally part of product development which is more likely to take place during training camps rather than race weekends, for several reasons:

1. Photographers; WC events are full of photo jocks who want to get the next scoop. Only near release protos make it to event weekends. There is a potential PR/ marketing disaster if prototypes break in the public eye.

2. Winning (or as close to as possible); the top 10 cannot afford to miss a podium or high finish position because of a proto failure. Again near release prototypes are the exception here. At that level it is a mind game and you have to 100% trust that your gear is going to hep rather than hinder your race effort.

3. Finding the winning groove, despite looking like there is a ton of time, race weekends fly by and there is actually not a lot of time to practice and get race set up dialled. Time spent on proto type testing detracts from this which is linked to the pressures of point 2.

Just my two cents worth from an old ex-XC racer


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> Please. It's all been done many times just as steep and fast by people without dropper posts than it is being done now by the majority of people with them.





BushwackerinPA said:


> https://www.strava.com/activities/75021943/segments/1490375765
> 
> I am the KOM and it was set on a 140mm front travel new school hardtail SS with a dropper. DHF front tire/ Ikon Rear tire. 27 ish lb. 2nd place is a pro roadie, MTB, and cross rider like its his day job, and 5th place is pro DH rider again its his actual day job to MTB. Dillon(2nd) is a stronger pedaler than me and was not using a dropper, and ALLaire is way stronger decender and was using a 6 by 6 inch bike with dropper.


You also have to take into account their effort level, which can be misleading on Strava.

The only way of measuring is to do the same thing on a familiar trail, with the same power output, on different equipment. Being faster than someone else on a specific day, or a certain ride isn't a measure of anything other than being faster on that trial, that day...for whatever reason. You're also comparing your pre-ride times to race times, when traffic could and probably would be a factor, especially on descents.

Does the added weight of a dropper post make an obvious difference? No, it doesn't.

Does a dropper allow better cornering and descending, yes it does.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Haven't you heard? WC mtb riders are slow to adopt new technology, this thread would be super helpful to them!


After watching the latest WC XC race, I imagine that a big reason that they don't use them is that they're already maxed out and just want consistency. Along with already being at the top of their fitness and set up their bikes for maximum pedaling performance.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

LaXCarp said:


> ...
> 
> People keep talking about how they have no trouble getting behind their saddle for descents. Well, you dont want to be behind your saddle, you want to be low! You are forced to get behind your saddle in order to get low because it is in the way.
> 
> ...


This.

My main beef with dropper posts is that some don't go low enough. Around here, you barely need a chain for the downhills, so stopping at the trailhead and QR'ing your seat to the bottom is a somewhat reasonable alternative to a dropper, and it allows you to drop your seat down to trials height if you want. The biggest PITA of using the QR is getting the seat back to the precise optimal height for the grind back up.

I can't understand why anyone would mindfully limit their hip/COG mobility and accept all that extra risk by riding downhill with an XC-height post.


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## trainnvain (Sep 14, 2004)

Last gravity dropper I had was in, like , 2007 or so.
Didn't think much of it and sold it ( too many levers on the bars, ran 2x9 and still do)
Looking for one again but it's dizzying and doesn't seem worth the price.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

So help a brother out. I am trying to build a bike. Probably a yelli screamy and am curious what are the top three or four dropper post choices? 

And how do you size them to make sure you get the right seat height


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## JPBakerIII (Mar 26, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> Well, I was going to ask this on a new thread, but I think I can do it on this one.
> 
> I never lower my saddle for descent, is it a Cardinal Sin? I know you are "supposed" to, but if I'm comfortable is it a problem? It sounds like a dumb question when I write it, but on my ride today I was thinking about this.


I remember those days, doing a descent without a drop-post. I used to keep my post about 1/2-2/3 an inch down from the optimal post height for doing climbs. That worked pretty good--I could still pedal fairly efficiently and get behind the saddle if I needed to on the decent. I'll tell you what the difference is--without a drop-post, or dropping your seat, you can clear a descent but you can't clear it as easily or have as much fun doing it. When you can drop that seat out of the way, it opens up trails to all kinds of possibilities that don't exist with your seat post all the way up.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Travis Bickle said:


> Yea, I can't believe that their are riders who think I a dropper doesn't help make you faster. The area I'm in on Vancouver Island droppers are almost universal and on our trails not lowering your saddle is slow and dangerous. I have been mtbing all over and some places I wouldn't use it very often but it would still be handy occasionally. It is something that takes time to learn, but once you do it's as natural as shifting.


Yeah, people were so slow and dangerous in the pre dropper days. It's hard to believe all those people got killed going so slow.


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## Stormf (Jan 24, 2009)

Your point about the top WC riders being used to check the differences out is the best yet.


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## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

No, I are faster.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

zrm said:


> Yeah, people were so slow and dangerous in the pre dropper days. It's hard to believe all those people got killed going so slow.



Haven't you seen all those tombstones?

He should have been 
running a dropper.
R.I.P. Dumbass.​


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## dmciivt (Sep 15, 2006)

jcd46 said:


> Well, I was going to ask this on a new thread, but I think I can do it on this one.
> 
> I never lower my saddle for descent, is it a Cardinal Sin? I know you are "supposed" to, but if I'm comfortable is it a problem? It sounds like a dumb question when I write it, but on my ride today I was thinking about this.


It's all a matter compromises. The dropper post just help to reduce how much you need to compromise.
Riding downhill with your seat up is like showering with your clothes on. You might be more comfortable with your clothes on, but it makes the washing harder.

If you rode downhill all day, I bet you would eventually put your seat down, even if initially it felt weird...
Some trials riders bikes don't even have a place to put the seat, so they can get the most bike foo.
Of course you can ride w your seat up wherever you like, but you will be lacking in manuverability as the downhill gets steeper or technical.


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## atay87 (Feb 18, 2015)

All this dropper post talk got me to try some descents with my seat down. To me it felt horribly unstable. I like the feel of the seat between my thighs. I just feel more in control of the bike. I don't really have the skill yet to take corners that fast either way, so that might be part of the problem. But at no point did it feel better, faster, or more fun. I'll keep trying it every once in a while, but I guess I'm not ready to take advantage of riding with my seat down.

Loic Bruni has similar sentiments though:


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## TSpice (May 15, 2015)

atay87 said:


> All this dropper post talk got me to try some descents with my seat down. To me it felt horribly unstable. I like the feel of the seat between my thighs. I just feel more in control of the bike. I don't really have the skill yet to take corners that fast either way, so that might be part of the problem. But at no point did it feel better, faster, or more fun. I'll keep trying it every once in a while, but I guess I'm not ready to take advantage of riding with my seat down.
> 
> Loic Bruni has similar sentiments though:


It really depends on your riding style and experience whether it makes a difference. As I have mentioned in other posts, one of the biggest problems in my area is that they create "technical" trails by just making everything extremely narrow. Its not technical climbs over rocks, or down steps, etc. Its basically having to be a surgeon with your bars so you don't break your fingers.

Because of that however, it is very difficult to carry any real speed. Since you don't carry lots of speed into turns (because you just got done with 4 back to back hairpin turns through 700mm tree gaps) you never have to really get low and manipulate the bike to corner. Hence a dropper post wouldn't get to shine.

However on some of our fast and flowy downhills, I will get off at the top, drop the post, and blitz through it. It just only applies to maybe 5-10% of all trails in my area so it wouldn't be worth spending money on it.

So whether you can't utilize it very well due to the trails, or just being new to the sport, they aren't for everyone.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

atay87 said:


> All this dropper post talk got me to try some descents with my seat down. To me it felt horribly unstable. I like the feel of the seat between my thighs. I just feel more in control of the bike. I don't really have the skill yet to take corners that fast either way, so that might be part of the problem. But at no point did it feel better, faster, or more fun. I'll keep trying it every once in a while, but I guess I'm not ready to take advantage of riding with my seat down.
> 
> Loic Bruni has similar sentiments though:


1. its take dozens if not hundred of descents to start to feel good.

2. Soft soles/and or clipless pedals with out tons of platforms can make it very ahrd to balance on your feet.

3.core strength has to be there to ride with the saddle down.

4. you can not take corners that fast with your saddle up.

5. Loic high saddle is still 5-6 inches lower than his handlebar.

If you are putting weight on the saddle you are doing it wrong and keeping your COG much higher than someone who ride though there feet


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

BushwackerinPA said:


> 1. its take dozens if not hundred of descents to start to feel good.
> 
> 3.core strength has to be there to ride with the saddle down.


Very true. When you're not used to riding downhill with the saddle down, it feels very uncomfortable at first. In the tamer sections, I grip the saddle with my legs and lean back to allow it to support some of my weight for a moment or two. Or just don't lower it all the way so that it's still in a relatively comfortable position to sit on when the conditions don't warrant it being all the way down.

There is a definite learning curve that you wouldn't expect from something like a seatpost.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

zrm said:


> Yeah, people were so slow and dangerous in the pre dropper days. It's hard to believe all those people got killed going so slow.


 I rode without one for 20 years and now I'm safer, faster, and having more fun.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Years ago I rode at a DH park and did a few runs with a real DH coach. I had been gripping my saddle with my thighs like a newb and was cornering wrong. His tips were let the bike float beneath you and ignore the saddle. Gripping the saddle is something new bs do to give themselves a false sense of control, you really have more control when you are not in contact and you are just using hands and feet. I learned to lean my bike, shift my hips, and push down on the inner grip. Still getting better at cornering, but I always let the bike float going down. You can't do this with the saddle up.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

richde said:


> In the tamer sections, I grip the saddle with my legs and lean back to allow it to support some of my weight for a moment or two.


Whaaa? Sounds very unstable.



> Years ago I rode at a DH park and did a few runs with a real DH coach. I had been gripping my saddle with my thighs like a newb and was cornering wrong. His tips were let the bike float beneath you and ignore the saddle. Gripping the saddle is something new bs do to give themselves a false sense of control, you really have more control when you are not in contact and you are just using hands and feet. I learned to lean my bike, shift my hips, and push down on the inner grip. Still getting better at cornering, but I always let the bike float going down. You can't do this with the saddle up.


This.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Travis Bickle said:


> Years ago I rode at a DH park and did a few runs with a real DH coach. I had been gripping my saddle with my thighs like a newb and was cornering wrong. His tips were let the bike float beneath you and ignore the saddle. Gripping the saddle is something new bs do to give themselves a false sense of control, you really have more control when you are not in contact and you are just using hands and feet. I learned to lean my bike, shift my hips, and push down on the inner grip. Still getting better at cornering, but I always let the bike float going down. You can't do this with the saddle up.


That's a great summary.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

formica said:


> Whaaa? Sounds very unstable.


Not if it's a short smooth section. "In the tamer sections..."



formica said:


> This.


Did I say to do it the whole way down? "In the tamer sections..."

Do you normally ignore well over 10% of the words you read?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Travis Bickle said:


> Years ago I rode at a DH park and did a few runs with a real DH coach. I had been gripping my saddle with my thighs like a newb and was cornering wrong. His tips were let the bike float beneath you and ignore the saddle. Gripping the saddle is something new bs do to give themselves a false sense of control, you really have more control when you are not in contact and you are just using hands and feet. I learned to lean my bike, shift my hips, and push down on the inner grip. Still getting better at cornering, but I always let the bike float going down. You can't do this with the saddle up.


What would you say to someone that had over a decade of instruction from a national team DH coach, yet didn't use a dropper post for 95% (estimate) of his riding?


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> What would you say to someone that had over a decade of instruction from a national team DH coach, yet didn't use a dropper post for 95% (estimate) of his riding?


He's been doing it wrong?

:lol:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Oh My Sack! said:


> He's been doing it wrong?
> 
> :lol:


Or his coaches head was somewhere else.


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## TrickySr. (May 20, 2010)

I believe dropper post use/need depends on size of the rider, as well as, the bike size and type. I am just under 6'and ride sz lge bikes. With my 26" bikes I don't need the dropper; with my 29ers I could ride without them but wouldn't. I am riding the Specialized Command Post(2 Yrs) with which I have had very good luck with;no service problems. It has 3 positions, UP, drops 35 mm, then 125mm.
Use 35mm drop very frequently; works well for switchbacks, tech/rocky sections, going in and out of smooth sections in and out of downhill. On steeper, rolling, straight downhill, may stabilize between thighs @ up or -35mm. Not while turning!! Occasionally, use full drop for extreme sections as well as for hauling in my SUV.
My friends mostly ride RS Reverb and it seems most problems are solved with "bleeding."
Don't really care if my "time" is faster, it definitely reduces opportunity for injury!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I'll give you guys a hint:


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

That is one fast looking steed. Even standing still.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Travis Bickle said:


> Years ago I rode at a DH park and did a few runs with a real DH coach. I had been gripping my saddle with my thighs like a newb and was cornering wrong. His tips were let the bike float beneath you and ignore the saddle. Gripping the saddle is something new bs do to give themselves a false sense of control, you really have more control when you are not in contact and you are just using hands and feet. I learned to lean my bike, shift my hips, and push down on the inner grip. Still getting better at cornering, but I always let the bike float going down. You can't do this with the saddle up.


In motorbike terms, gripping the seat is more MX style and floating is more Trials.


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> I'll give you guys a hint


Hmmm. I dunno.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> I'll give you guys a hint:


great the best XC rider in the world who base off what he does off tradition can descend faster than the other XC riders with out a dropper post. Lets not forget he is also one of the fastest climber so his stubborness does nthurt him that much.

I am pretty sure Nino has never tried a XC race with one.

BTW I think Nino is awesome as well, but just becuase he choose not to ride with a dropper doesnt mean the average joe will not benefit from one, it also doesnt mean that his choice make him faster without one. As far as I know he has never gave droppers a try for xc racing so how does he even know that he is faster with out one?

by 2025 dropper posts will be the norm in XC racing because eventually what I say will be found to be true.

The physics just isnt there to support a working dropper post being slow. The difference in weight between a dropper and fixed seat post is about equal to a large **** and once people learn to ride with it there is no way any would be slower not just going down but on moderately twisting and rolling terrain.

So le Duke you never got back to me, before I moved away from Luther State Forest I had all the KOMs on DH tired, dropper post new geo bike. How did I accomplish that? That place is hte most mellow place I have ever rode and yet the new tech let me go faster.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Seriously? Well, maybe your eyes don't work so well BWP, but the two guys running droppers are also riding Trail/AM typre bikes with about 150mm travel and slack angles, the guy with the fixed post is on an XC bike with 100-120mm travel and steeper angles, also the XC guy has on more XC tyres. If anything what this tells me is that the XC guy is damn fast with his post up to be on such a different, less confidence inspiring bike for the DHs and only 1 sec slower. Seriously GMBN normally makes pretty good, helpful vids, but this is even more skewed than the 27.5" vs 26" marketing sh1t most manufacturers were putting out when they introduced them, you know, that BS Giant and such put out with some kind of new math.

All that being said, I agree, a dropper post makes varying terrain a lot more fun and efficient and helps to keep the flow instead of having to stop and lower/raise your saddle or suffer the more tech steep stuff with saddle up, however, if you're riding basic XC or straight on DH, then not really necessary or would really add to your experience IMHO.



BushwackerinPA said:


> *what would you do to make it a better comparison?*
> 
> 
> DIRTJUNKIE said:
> ...


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

BushwackerinPA said:


> 4. you can not take corners fast with your saddle up.


If you sit on it and pedal through them you can.


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

Shayne said:


> If you sit on it and pedal through them you can.


If you can pedal through corners without hitting your pedals hard, that isn't the terrain droppers will help with. Also, pedaling on slopes doesn't necessarily add much speed by the way and can use more energy than it'sp worth. I've followed people down even moderate slopes (less than 10%) and I've overtaken them without pedaling by pumping the trail, something also made easier with a dropper.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

BushwackerinPA said:


> ...just becuase he choose not to ride with a dropper doesnt mean the average joe will not benefit from one, it also doesnt mean that his choice make him faster without one. As far as I know he has never gave droppers a try for xc racing so how does he even know that he is faster with out one?...


I agree with this comment. I respect everyone's opinion on this issue, but unless I am missing something, it seems to me that posting what appears to be an anomaly on this issue may not substantiate all that much. Most of us here are, after all, mere mortals.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

If Nino Schurter thought that a dropper would make him faster overall, he'd use it. Without question. He rides one on his Genius LT. 

As to the coach I referred to, that would be his dad. Swiss DH coach.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Shayne said:


> If you sit on it and pedal through them you can.


If you are developing any lean angle your pedals will hit the ground pedaling. My guess is though with your bikes all with 130mm stems or longer its hard for you to acutally get over in a turn.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I agree with this comment. I respect everyone's opinion on this issue, but unless I am missing something, it seems to me that posting what appears to be an anomaly on this issue may not substantiate all that much. Most of us here are, after all, mere mortals.


the thing is with out actually hard testing to back it up. This is what I have to say to the "we did it for year with out" or "I never have actually tested to see if my XC bike would be faster with out a dropper"

Yes, Your Opinion Can Be Wrong | Houston Press


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

BushwackerinPA said:


> If you are developing any lean angle your pedals will hit the ground pedaling. My guess is though with your bikes all with 130mm stems or longer its hard for you to acutally get over in a turn.


My bike will lean 48* before the pedal touches the ground. I rarely find the need to go over more than half that far though.
Yes, I've clipped pedals on the ground so many times I hardly even notice any more.

I am confused why you think a long stem makes it hard to lean over


----------



## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

zrm said:


> Yeah, people were so slow and dangerous in the pre dropper days. It's hard to believe all those people got killed going so slow.


Ummm ... pre-dropper, anybody riding downhills was lowering their seat out of the way for safety and proper body position. Seatpost QRs have been around for decades.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Geralt said:


> Hmmm. I dunno.


Everyone stacks it up once in a while. Even one of the fastest, most skilled people on the planet. Particularly when he's in the red, at the end of a World Championship race.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

TooSteep said:


> Ummm ... pre-dropper, anybody riding downhills was lowering their seat out of the way for safety and proper body position. Seatpost QRs have been around for decades.


I can't think of anyone who lowered their seat every time the trail descended. Yeah, for extended steep runs, sure, but not every time the trail takes the slightest dip for a few yards like people seem to feel they have to do these days.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> ...but not every time the trail takes the slightest dip for a few yards like people seem to feel they *have to do *these days.


Odd choice of words. I adjust my seat height lots for all the reasons already given, but mostly because it makes the ride a lot more fun for me. I don't really feel like I _have to _do _anything_. I'm quite sure most of the seat dropper crowd feels the same way.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> I can't think of anyone who lowered their seat every time the trail descended. Yeah, for extended steep runs, sure, but not every time the trail takes the slightest dip for a few yards like people seem to feel they have to do these days.


no body HAS to to do anything, but with a dropper I do drop my post as soon as the trail is not dead flat.

I always think "Is there any reason my seat should be at full height here" Usually the answer is no unless the trail is flattish climbing. I am also more likely to hit the dropper on my hardtail than on my Fs because its can smooth out the trail.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

The only way this is going to get settled is by having a race, who's in?


----------



## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> The only way this is going to get settled is by having a race, who's in?


I think you all ought to simply whip them out and see who has the best ... seatpost that is.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> The only way this is going to get settled is by having a race, who's in?


I am game.

How shall we set up the conditions?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

LyNx said:


> Seriously? Well, maybe your eyes don't work so well BWP, but the two guys running droppers are also riding Trail/AM typre bikes with about 150mm travel and slack angles, the guy with the fixed post is on an XC bike with 100-120mm travel and steeper angles, also the XC guy has on more XC tyres. If anything what this tells me is that the XC guy is damn fast with his post up to be on such a different, less confidence inspiring bike for the DHs and only 1 sec slower. Seriously GMBN normally makes pretty good, helpful vids, but this is even more skewed than the 27.5" vs 26" marketing sh1t most manufacturers were putting out when they introduced them, you know, that BS Giant and such put out with some kind of new math.
> 
> All that being said, I agree, a dropper post makes varying terrain a lot more fun and efficient and helps to keep the flow instead of having to stop and lower/raise your saddle or suffer the more tech steep stuff with saddle up, however, if you're riding basic XC or straight on DH, then not really necessary or would really add to your experience IMHO.


From post #194 ^^

So it sounds like you agree with my take on the video. The stupidest unfair video comparison of all time.

I use a dropper and I agree they can help in many situations. And given the same rider on the same bike on the same trail at the same time with the same rest and the same fuel intake riding the same distance with a dropper and without a dropper, then yes the dropper ride would be faster.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

LMN said:


> I am game.
> 
> How shall we set up the conditions?


I was thinking a cliff, or maybe a really tall building. I'm betting my svelte carbon is going to have an aero advantage over the clunky droppers, plus most of them will probably fail half way down.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> What would you say to someone that had over a decade of instruction from a national team DH coach, yet didn't use a dropper post for 95% (estimate) of his riding?


Not riding DH much.


----------



## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

zephxiii said:


> Jolanda Neff and Emily Batty don't need no damn dropper post...


Are they in that group of WC XC women that walk the steep descents?


----------



## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

PhillipJ said:


> Are they in that group of WC XC women that walk the steep descents?


No. I'm sure they are faster than you and your brahs.

Uphill and down.

On their hardtails.

While wearing lycra.


----------



## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Flucod said:


> Have you been riding very long? Your posts are always little off and it seems you do not know how to ride at all, are your post dry humor or just being sarcastic. If so, well done you got me.


21 years. I am fast but I still suck. Here is a video me sucking on a local trail, its aint flow trail.






that post could read better though.

Basically on my hardtail I notice even small bumps more so I am more likely to use the dropper to get my seat out of the way than on any FS bike I own.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

BushwackerinPA said:


> 21 years. I am fast but I still suck. Here is a video me sucking on a local trail, its aint flow trail.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That trail looks like a lot of fun and you look competent. But honestly on XC trail that flat and slow I wouldn't hit dropper post button. The fastest way down that trail, providing you have the skill set, is probably with the seat-up.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

LMN said:


> That trail looks like a lot of fun and you look competent. But honestly on XC trail that flat and slow I wouldn't hit dropper post button. The fastest way down that trail, providing you have the skill set, is probably with the seat-up.


well its is slow, but it aint flat.

Id bet you 1000 dollars plus travel expense you could nt keep up on that trail with your seat up. Heck I d bet you 100 dollars you could not descent that trail with falling with your seat up. I am dead serious, if this trail is easy it would be an easy way for you to make money.

https://www.strava.com/segments/5373721

extend 20 percent grades are no fun with a seat in your chest, and for sure not faster. If you want to say they are. Fly into burlington stay with 5 second of me at the bottom the hill and get 1100 dollars.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Dang


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Awesome!


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

BushwackerinPA said:


> well its is slow, but it aint flat.
> 
> Id bet you 1000 dollars plus travel expense you could nt keep up on that trail with your seat up. Heck I d bet you 100 dollars you could not descent that trail with falling with your seat up. I am dead serious, if this trail is easy it would be an easy way for you to make money.
> 
> ...


You don't know who he is, do you?

I'd back LMN on this one.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Awesome!


 +1
There's always someone faster than you.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

This might be the mtbr event of the decade.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

LOL . . . XXXTREEMMMEEE drooper post throw down, Brah!!!!!!

What is it with dropper posts, wheel size, and rim width that makes everyone polarize and lose their minds?


----------



## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Forget dropper posts - has anyone else notice these grammatical error in title of this thread? It sort of sound like person do not know difference between singular and plural.


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

JACKL said:


> Forget dropper posts - has anyone else notice these grammatical error in title of this thread? It sort of sound like person do not know difference between singular and plural.


Conjugating verbs is NOT faster.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

BushwackerinPA said:


> well its is slow, but it aint flat.
> 
> Id bet you 1000 dollars plus travel expense you could nt keep up on that trail with your seat up. Heck I d bet you 100 dollars you could not descent that trail with falling with your seat up. I am dead serious, if this trail is easy it would be an easy way for you to make money.
> 
> ...


Damm, that is temping. Talk about putting your money where your mouth is. Good on you.

I do get to Vermont from time. Would be more than happy to head out for a ride with you. I should be there next summer and will look you up. Take me on some sweet trails and beers are on me.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

LMN said:


> Damm, that is temping. Talk about putting your money where your mouth is. Good on you.
> 
> I do get to Vermont from time. Would be more than happy to head out for a ride with you. I should be there next summer and will look you up. Take me on some sweet trails and beers are on me.


LOL, you might have $1100 extra dollars in your pocket to buy those beers with.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Try taking a fast, steep drop-in to a high, banked berm which is only 3 feet wide with a fixed high saddle. Uhm....no thanks, I don't need a saddle in my chest:


----------



## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> 21 years. I am fast but I still suck. Here is a video me sucking on a local trail, its aint flow trail.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Terrain has potential, nothing in that video proves your point. You are going to lose that bet.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Circlip said:


> LOL, you might have $1100 extra dollars in your pocket to buy those beers with.


If it was a day earlier I might take him up on it. Fly to Burlington take a shot at $1100 and then go down and surprise Catharine at Windham.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

yeah I just realized you might be close while riding this afternoon. 

The offer will stand if you make it here would be doubly cool if you can bring your wife as well. I am sure I will be sucking wind on any up compared to you guys.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

croatiansensation said:


> LOL . . . XXXTREEMMMEEE drooper post throw down, Brah!!!!!!
> 
> What is it with dropper posts, wheel size, and rim width that makes everyone polarize and lose their minds?


No uphill, we don't want anyone to fog their goggles.


----------



## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> You don't know who he is, do you?
> 
> I'd back LMN on this one.


How much are you backing him with? Haha. Out money down or stay out out of it. Need videographic evidence of the throw down !!


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> You don't know who he is, do you?
> 
> I'd back LMN on this one.


I am well aware who he is. I would make the same bet to anyone in the world thats how much I believe lowered seat on rough DH help. Interesting there are some pedally section here so an XC guy might have chance, but they are short and my seat will be raised for them anyways.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

So can someone please help out the dumb guy in the room? Who exactly is LMN? No offence LMN - I should probably know. [Edit: never mind - mystery solved]

Also, just my opinion and maybe I'm being a puss about this, but I wish you guys would just ride together and have beers afterwards. No need for any wagers.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

mtnbkrmike said:


> So can someone please help out the dumb guy in the room? Who exactly is LMN? No offence LMN - I should probably know.
> 
> Also, just my opinion and maybe I'm being a puss about this, but I wish you guys would just ride together and have beers afterwards. No need for any wagers.


I agree but the wager can get people to show up. I quite frankly tire of internet bracket racing.

LMN I believe is canandian national XC champ, and his wife has won the XC WC overall and mulitiple WC.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I agree but the wager can get people to show up. I quite frankly tire of internet bracket racing.
> 
> LMN I believe is canandian national XC champ, and his wife has won the XC WC overall and mulitiple WC.


Cray, cray.

:bluefrown:

Your post is a very good reminder though that among us at this site are pre-eminent world experts. Very humbling.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I agree but the wager can get people to show up. I quite frankly tire of internet bracket racing.
> 
> LMN I believe is canandian national XC champ, and his wife has won the XC WC overall and mulitiple WC.


Canadian National XC champ, not even close. So far from that. I am just an average hack in an XC race. But I am more than a competent descender. My wife on the other is the current XC world champion.

I work with racers who are at the pointy end of the sport. Just about everybody, myself included, spends a lot of time riding a bike with a dropper post. This year along I mountain biked almost 5000km with a dropper. Everybody is very aware of the advantages of a dropper. Yet despite extensive testing, few are racing with them. The speed gains aren't there.

No offense BushwackerinPA, but when I look at the video of your trail, I don't see anything that I would need to lower my seat to ride quickly. It is a sweet looking trail though.

I have done XC races where a dropper would make a difference. Here is a video of the descent in a local race. I have done this descent with both a dropper and straight post, 20 second difference if favor of the dropper. But it a gnarly descent that is almost 7 minutes long.

(Skip the first minute of the video)






I am not ruling droppers out for XC. The weight needs to come down a bit, and more importantly they need to become easier to use.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mtnbkrmike said:


> So can someone please help out the dumb guy in the room? Who exactly is LMN? No offence LMN - I should probably know. [Edit: never mind - mystery solved]
> 
> Also, just my opinion and maybe I'm being a puss about this, but I wish you guys would just ride together and have beers afterwards. No need for any wagers.


There is no way I would wager anything. A ride and beers sounds awesome.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

"pedally"? You mean like pedal a bicycle? Who'd of thunk?


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

LMN said:


> There is no way I would wager anything. A ride and beers sounds awesome.


Nothing but class.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

LMN said:


> Canadian National XC champ, not even close. So far from that. I am just an average hack in an XC race. But I am more than a competent descender. My wife on the other is the current XC world champion.
> 
> I work with racers who are at the pointy end of the sport. Just about everybody, myself included, spends a lot of time riding a bike with a dropper post. This year along I mountain biked almost 5000km with a dropper. Everybody is very aware of the advantages of a dropper. Yet despite extensive testing, few are racing with them. The speed gains aren't there.
> 
> ...


see again I think the camera hides a ton of chunk inboth our videos and hide the steepness. The trail you posted is certainly faster though no doubt. We have some faster stuff around here as well. that is the problem with anyone first person POV video of basically anything it looks easier.

Here is some similar in difficulty level to the first video but much faster, and shot in 3rd person.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Zachariah said:


> Try taking a fast, steep drop-in to a high, banked berm which is only 3 feet wide with a fixed high saddle. Uhm....no thanks, I don't need a saddle in my chest:
> 
> View attachment 1006973


Copper Harbor?


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm not sure why I would care about videos or how other riders do with and without droppers. Don't know who won the WC of anything last year, not even mountain biking. What I know comes from experience, and it tells me that I'm faster and safer. My friend came to visit this week and he is a roadie, triathlete, and mountain biker. He had never tried a dropper before and after day one here I loaned him a Reverb off of a bike I'm selling. 3 days later he bought it off me. Was he faster, yes, he didn't have to stop to raise and lower his saddle. Is he going to be faster on all the trails he rides back home, maybe not, but he was convinced of the benefits.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BushwackerinPA said:


> Heck I d bet you 100 dollars you could not descent that trail with falling with your seat up.


Now you're just getting silly.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

JACKL said:


> Forget dropper posts - has anyone else notice these grammatical error in title of this thread? It sort of sound like person do not know difference between singular and plural.


I noticed it right off the bat, but I've been waiting for the OP to correct it before a call out was in order. I guess one week 9 pages and 225 posts is a fair time frame.


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## trainnvain (Sep 14, 2004)

Anyone else feel the pricing is just too much? I could buy a drivetrain for the price of a post.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

trainnvain said:


> Anyone else feel the pricing is just too much? I could buy a drivetrain for the price of a post.


It's a little steep, but that would never be a factor in my purchasing decision.

A dropper (for me) has been a revolutionary addition to my bikes. Apart from the Gravity Dropper (of which I own none but am going on anecdotal reports on this forum), they are all pretty sketchy in terms of reliability (although I have NEVER required so much as a bleed for 3 Reverbs so far). If the price were to be dropped, I'd have to think there would be some kind of compromises design or material-wise. I am willing to pay for maximum reliability, however sketchy that may be at this point.

All that said, I am 90% of the way to ordering an ElevenSix shock for my Range at $1200 US so I guess I am not a good benchmark.


----------



## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

trainnvain said:


> Anyone else feel the pricing is just too much? I could buy a drivetrain for the price of a post.


Well, there's no doubt that a dropper takes what has been the simplest, most reliable, and lightest component on a bike and turned it into something that is heavy, expensive. and prone to failure.


----------



## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

trainnvain said:


> Anyone else feel the pricing is just too much? I could buy a drivetrain for the price of a post.


I would rather go singlespeed than give up my dropper.


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

cerebroside said:


> I would rather go singlespeed than give up my dropper.


A bike that was singlespeed AND had a dropper?
It would be like you're cheating.

Aren't those both things that _make_ you faster?


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Zowie said:


> A bike that was singlespeed AND had a dropper?
> It would be like you're cheating.


Only if you run an oval chain ring too.


----------



## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Zowie said:


> A bike that was singlespeed AND had a dropper?
> It would be like you're cheating.
> 
> Aren't those both things that _make_ you faster?


I think its combo that can work really well......









I know Dicky races a rigid a SS with dropper a ton of the time.


----------



## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

What kind of frame is that? Me likey


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Derek200 said:


> What kind of frame is that? Me likey


Kona Honzo 2012, its 300 dollar frame with $2500 of parts bolted to it. Whats weird about that picture is the Headangle looks really steep and its not, with the 140 Pike its about 67 degree. They are pretty easy to find complete and frame only if you look around. Its also one of those bike that dispelles the myth that 29er can not turn fast or rally down hill.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

BushwackerinPA said:


> Kona Honzo 2012, its 300 dollar frame with $2500 of parts bolted to it. Whats weird about that picture is the Headangle looks really steep and its not, with the 140 Pike its about 67 degree. They are pretty easy to find complete and frame only if you look around. Its also one of those bike that dispelles the myth that 29er can not turn fast or rally down hill.


I am seriously thinking about grabbing a 2016 Honzo Ti frame and building it up.


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## trainnvain (Sep 14, 2004)

So I looked anyways, always knowing I can sell the post if I don't like it.
Turns out they're all 30.9 or 31.6. I have a 30.0. 
Already have a shim for 27.2. The 27.2 dropper posts cost more.
Mountain biking is so stupid , filled with stupid people. lol.
I like my qr just fine I guess.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Get a cheap gravity dropper clone. My TMARS 27.2 was about $100us


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## trainnvain (Sep 14, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Get a cheap gravity dropper clone. My TMARS 27.2 was about $100us


Nice. Can't go too wrong at that price. Just looked it up on eBay . Thanks.


----------



## iheartoregon (Apr 23, 2013)

Lightweight, simple, reliable, 100mm, 31.6 dropper for xc racing? annnnnnnd go:


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

iheartoregon said:


> Lightweight, simple, reliable, 100mm, 31.6 dropper for xc racing? annnnnnnd go:


Look at the post above yours and google "seatpost shim".


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

zephxiii said:


> Jolanda Neff and Emily Batty don't need no damn dropper post...or perhaps they do and u should tweet them this video??
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


mmmmm
I'm not lookin at Emily's seatpost


----------



## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

Semenuk don't need no damn dropper post ...


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

TooSteep said:


> Semenuk don't need no damn dropper post ...


he post was already dropped and he has 2k of vertical to go down. Why would anyone want a dropper a on a DJ bike?


----------



## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

iheartoregon said:


> Lightweight, simple, reliable, 100mm, 31.6 dropper for xc racing? annnnnnnd go:


get the most drop avaliable , for the most part there is no weight difference between 100mm of drop and 125mm of drop or 150 for the matter.


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

BushwackerinPA said:


> he post was already dropped and he has 2k of vertical to go down. Why would anyone want a dropper a on a DJ bike?


He doesn't really need a seat, either, so it kinda makes the post moot!


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## iheartoregon (Apr 23, 2013)

BushwackerinPA said:


> get the most drop avaliable , for the most part there is no weight difference between 100mm of drop and 125mm of drop or 150 for the matter.


After spending the day reading and researching I really like the KS LEV Ti plus the clean cable mount, its just the customer service horror stories that worry me a bit.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

bump. 

Who thinks no dropper is still faster?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Me.
when I am doing technical bit of trail that is pushing my abilities, dropper is faster. the rest of the time 99% of my riding, I still find it faster on an old rigid post. But that is just me, on my local trails.
My dropper broke a few months ago, I replaced it with my a rigid post, didn't even put in my spare old dropper...didnt miss it. Only took it in to get warrantied last week, not even sure if I'll put it back on.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

I don't know if dropper is faster or not, and frankly I don't care. I do know that running a dropper makes my rides *far* more enjoyable and a lot more fun. That's really all that matters.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mik_git said:


> Me.
> when I am doing technical bit of trail that is pushing my abilities, dropper is faster. the rest of the time 99% of my riding, I still find it faster on an old rigid post. But that is just me, on my local trails.
> My dropper broke a few months ago, I replaced it with my a rigid post, didn't even put in my spare old dropper...didnt miss it. Only took it in to get warrantied last week, not even sure if I'll put it back on.


That is where I am at.

There are certain trails and certain situations where a dropper makes a significant difference. But most the time they really don't make any difference.

I had to pull the dropper of my XC bike to replace a broken one my trail bike. I am not riding the XC bike any slower.


----------



## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

For me I don't think it's faster as I rarely use mine and I'm slow either way. 

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

for many, they are not worth the weight and are slower. thats why majority of mens pro xco dont ahve droppers.


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## Ragna (Oct 11, 2015)

Most of this "debate" just hinges on the terrain you ride. I ride New England jank, and many of my rides are rolling terrain where there are no real descents that last more than a few seconds. I can ride 15 miles and only do 500 feet of vert. For short downs, I rarely fuss with the dropper unless it's some kind of gnarly chute that requires real body repositioning. There's so many quick ups and downs that maintaining a good pedaling position is paramount, and you'd end up spending more time mucking about dropping your butt than you would get in benefit. I do lots of brief standing or hover butting, then it's back to sit and spin. Nor do I feel like it's essential for longer descents of the smoother variety. But there are a few trails I ride that have descents that drop hundreds of feet and last a while, and I also hit the bike park a few times a year. For those rides, or anything involving air time, best believe I'm using that dropper all the time, and yeah, I can't imagine living without it.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

bob13bob said:


> for many, they are not worth the weight and are slower. thats why majority of mens pro xco dont ahve droppers.


They've also got pro level skills, which helps.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Olympics Gold in both the mens and women's XC race were won with Droppers. I was ahead of the curve by 5 years and many people in this thread were wrong.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BushwackerinPA said:


> Olympics Gold in both the mens and women's XC race were won with Droppers. I was ahead of the curve by 5 years and many people in this thread were wrong.


5 years?

I call you and raise you 10.
I've been using a dropper for 15 years. ?


----------



## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

not to mention MVDP lack of range of motion caused him to crash out. Should have ran a dropper MVDP.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

BushwackerinPA said:


> not to mention MVDP lack of range of motion caused him to crash out. Should have ran a dropper MVDP.


I, for one, was glad to see some real mountain biking terrain in the Olympics. I think a dropper would definitely have helped that dude.🤣


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I do agree that riding with a dropper does give me loads more confidence...but I don't think a dropper would have made a difference in MVDP's situation. He just rode off the drop thinking there was a ramp and did a "dead sailor" onto his front wheel.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> I do agree that riding with a dropper does give me loads more confidence...but I don't think a dropper would have made a difference in MVDP's situation. He just rode off the drop thinking there was a ramp and did a "dead sailor" onto his front wheel.


If he'd had a dropper. his seat would have been lower during the dead sailor.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

If he knew there was a drop...then he'd be ready for it. He must have rode that ramp multiple times before it was removed. I still don't see how a dropper would have made a difference. I don't lower my post for everything I come across. His issue was not knowing the ramp was gone. He just rode off the end and his body got pitched forward.

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> If he knew there was a drop...then he'd be ready for it. He must have rode that ramp multiple times before it was removed. I still don't see how a dropper would have made a difference. I don't lower my post for everything I come across. His issue was not knowing the ramp was gone. He just rode off the end and his body got pitched forward.
> 
> Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


Muscle memory vs normal memory.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm firmly in the dropper camp...

I couldn't imagine hitting a 4 foot drop or a 12 foot gap jump with seatpost fully extended!!

Orthodontist/Chiropractor visit for sure! 

Sent from my Asus Rog 3


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## Johnmarison (Jul 9, 2021)

Hello, Its John from *SpotnRides*.

You might be better saving your money and keeping your bike light and simple. For cross-country riders and racers, the dropper post is a gray area. Most racers are not using them.

With a dropper post, you are able to stay centered and low over the bike, which inspires a lot of confidence and can help you go faster


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> 5 years?
> 
> I call you and raise you 10.
> I've been using a dropper for 15 years. ?


I'll raise you 1. Bought a GD in the summer of 2005 (it still works great on a bike that gets regular use).

I was 100% convinced of the value of a remote activated dropper (or whatever it would have been called before the term "dropper" was coined) well before the GD came out, so when it did, I was all over it. Soooo many people thought it was the stupidest gimmick they ever saw. They all run droppers now.


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## Mike Aswell (Sep 1, 2009)

RS VR6 said:


> If he knew there was a drop...then he'd be ready for it. He must have rode that ramp multiple times before it was removed. I still don't see how a dropper would have made a difference. I don't lower my post for everything I come across. His issue was not knowing the ramp was gone. He just rode off the end and his body got pitched forward.
> 
> Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


I don't know if this got discussed on here at the time...but personally think it's BS to change the course from practice to the event. I know the OC said everyone was made aware, including him, but if the drop is going to be part of the course, I think it should be during practice.

I've never raced and certainly (obviously) not at the Olympic XC level...but what do other people think about this? Is that standard operating procedure to dumb down a feature during walk throughs or practice and then have it be part of the actual race? Seems unfair to me, at least to the better riders who want to see/ride the course exactly how it will be for the race.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

Mike Aswell said:


> I don't know if this got discussed on here at the time...but personally think it's BS to change the course from practice to the event. I know the OC said everyone was made aware, including him, but if the drop is going to be part of the course, I think it should be during practice.
> 
> I've never raced and certainly (obviously) not at the Olympic XC level...but what do other people think about this? Is that standard operating procedure to dumb down a feature during walk throughs or practice and then have it be part of the actual race? Seems unfair to me, at least to the better riders who want to see/ride the course exactly how it will be for the race.


They should never have put a ramp up in the first place, but once they did, they shouldn't have taken it down.

At the same time, in racing, you should be prepared for the course changing and be ready for anything. That didn't look like a hard feature to me, and if he'd been scanning ahead far enough he could have compensated. A dropper may have enabled him to adjust in the air and avoid a crash, had it been dropped, of course.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Mike Aswell said:


> I don't know if this got discussed on here at the time...but personally think it's BS to change the course from practice to the event. I know the OC said everyone was made aware, including him, but if the drop is going to be part of the course, I think it should be during practice.
> 
> I've never raced and certainly (obviously) not at the Olympic XC level...but what do other people think about this? Is that standard operating procedure to dumb down a feature during walk throughs or practice and then have it be part of the actual race? Seems unfair to me, at least to the better riders who want to see/ride the course exactly how it will be for the race.


It was part of the course during practice. The ramp was removed for the practice session the day before the race.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

NordieBoy said:


> If he'd had a dropper. his seat would have been lower during the dead sailor.


He could have gotten lower and maybe saved it, it was not that different than Neff's ride off the wrong part of the rock.


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## Mike Aswell (Sep 1, 2009)

LMN said:


> It was part of the course during practice. The ramp was removed for the practice session the day before the race.


I didn't know that. So he had ridden it once without the ramp? Still, I do think the course should be the course. Practice or competition.


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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Mike Aswell said:


> I didn't know that. So he had ridden it once without the ramp? Still, I do think the course should be the course. Practice or competition.


the teams were told it would be removed for the race......


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## Mike Aswell (Sep 1, 2009)

BushwackerinPA said:


> the teams were told it would be removed for the race......


I knew they were told (which I said in my post) -- I didn't know there was a day of practice that it was removed.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Mike Aswell said:


> I didn't know that. So he had ridden it once without the ramp? Still, I do think the course should be the course. Practice or competition.


Sometimes people skip final practice.

Normally I would say a race isn't a time to learn a new skills but Olympics is different than a world cup. You get riders from poor nations who have no experience in international competition. A training ramp allows them to safely learn the feature in training ins't a bad thing.

If we ignore the fact that MVDP some how missed that the ramp was removed, there is no issue with it. And honestly removable case guards have been used at world cups and world champs for years with zero issues. The one time it goes wrong is with the biggest name in cycling at the biggest event in mountain biking.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Neff’s save isn’t comparable to MVDP’s crash. He pumped a backside that wasn’t there. You can see him set up to push his front wheel down- there’s no saving that.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Give the XC racing folks a few years and more will be using them. They are almost always late to the party.

But I guess it really depends on the course. Some are technical with long descents, (I am thinking of some of the local ones where I used to live) and some not at all.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

kapusta said:


> Give the XC racing folks a few years and more will be using them.


Do people still do that?

Calm down, I'm kidding.


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