# Policing Trails for e-MTB Infractions



## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Couple of times I've encountered Police Officers patrolling trails for "offenders" including individuals riding e-MTB's, as I've stated previously. These are in pretty congested parks in OC, CA. Anyone else in another area encountered officials checking for e-MTB's where they're prohibited?


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

We don't have a single ranger for 500 miles of singletrack (plus the rail trail/commuter trail stuff) around here. Add in a tourist population that is sometimes 3 or 4 times the actual resident population and it's a junkshow on some popular trails. I'm a little shocked there isn't some form of police/ranger presence but as of now the only "patrolling" that happens is the bike park bike patrols (for the gravity/gnar/lift served areas) and then a couple fine fellows with XR's and big medical kits that do first-responder stuff for emergencies in the backcountry. 

I am assuming most places are similar - no law enforcement presence whatsoever. Maybe I'm wrong about that, though. I've spend most of my life in the less-populated parts of the west. 

-Walt


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Walt, thanks for the reply; that's what I surmised. CA doesn't have the funds AFAICT to patrol, although they set up a sting every once in a while to catch individuals riding too fast or where it's prohibited. That's why it seems many park laws are moot.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

The only time actual police officers make an appearance in the local parks here is if they have been called for a specific incident, or occaisionally local park rangers will escort one through on a singular mission, for example, last week to ticket off leash dog offenders. The local park staff have no authority to write tickets, if they see someone doing something not allowed, they simply tell them to stop. If it escalates or is serious, they call the cops. We have 7 full time rangers for 44,000 acres of parks with 250 miles of trails. Plus county, plus USFS. I've never seen a cop out of a car and on patrol in any of it in 30 years. 

Signs, self policing and peer pressure will be the only enforcement here, which was a significant reason why ebike access is very restricted.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

The City of Carlsbad in North San Diego County (California) is currently in the process of hiring some full time rangers to patrol the Carlsbad City parks as well as some state land owned by Fish n Game, this will be the first time any sort of enforcement is scheduled to be a regular thing. The Rangers will supposedly have the ability to fine people. Up until now the only presence was a volunteer ranger group that worked for the city that was all bark and no bite. The "purpose" being given to the public right now is to clean up homeless camps (I have never seen such camps in my riding area) and keep hikers/bikers/equestrian riders out of certain "preservation" area's.

I have no idea if they will target e-bikes, but I am sure I will have the opportunity to speak to them once they have a true presence on the trails and ask about it. I am not able to make the City Council meetings where this stuff is being discussed since they are having the meetings at 9am mid-week...... sorta unfair.


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

Haven't ever seen a ranger or police on any CA trails for 20 years.

Police sometimes at illegal dirt jumps. But they just help the firefighters carry bodies out. Then they watch you Dj.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

fos'l said:


> Couple of times I've encountered Police Officers patrolling trails for "offenders" including individuals riding e-MTB's, as I've stated previously. These are in pretty congested parks in OC, CA. Anyone else in another area encountered officials checking for e-MTB's where they're prohibited?


Which parks in OC exactly?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

fos'l said:


> Couple of times I've encountered Police Officers patrolling trails for "offenders" including individuals riding e-MTB's, as I've stated previously. These are in pretty congested parks in OC, CA. Anyone else in another area encountered officials checking for e-MTB's where they're prohibited?


I'm sorry, that is sad. Cops on the trail signify the beginning of the end of the last refuges from "civilization".


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

jazzanova said:


> Which parks in OC exactly?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


Once at the Ridge Park entrance to El Moro by the kiosk; they were leaving and we were starting out and once near the start of the trail at Sand Canyon.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm sorry, that is sad. Cops on the trail signify the beginning of the end of the last refuges from "civilization".


Both times they were affable and we enjoyed chatting with them, even had a laugh or two. Didn't mind them one bit.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

fos'l said:


> Both times they were affable and we enjoyed chatting with them, even had a laugh or two. Didn't mind them one bit.


The fact that it's sad has nothing to do with their personalities or how enjoyable the encounter was, it's that they had to be there in the first place.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Sorry to hit you with a big jolt of reality, but there are a bunch of trails that are closed. However, riders, especially a specific group that thumbs their noses at signs, have kept riding them. Doesn't bother me since I keep to the open areas.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Klurejr said:


> The City of Carlsbad in North San Diego County (California) is currently in the process of hiring some full time rangers to patrol the Carlsbad City parks as well as some state land owned by Fish n Game, this will be the first time any sort of enforcement is scheduled to be a regular thing. The Rangers will supposedly have the ability to fine people. Up until now the only presence was a volunteer ranger group that worked for the city that was all bark and no bite. The "purpose" being given to the public right now is to clean up homeless camps (I have never seen such camps in my riding area) and keep hikers/bikers/equestrian riders out of certain "preservation" area's.
> 
> I have no idea if they will target e-bikes, but I am sure I will have the opportunity to speak to them once they have a true presence on the trails and ask about it. I am not able to make the City Council meetings where this stuff is being discussed since they are having the meetings at 9am mid-week...... sorta unfair.


They didn't "hire" anybody. They are taking two of their community service officers and re-assigning them to this Ranger detail. I know because they had to go thru bike training last week and a friend of mine led the training. Rangers can issue citations but they have no true "law enforcement" powers. Until they get some legal, legitimate signage up *that stays up*, no citations they write, if that's the plan, will hold up in court.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I thought rangers had full policing powers...at least in National Parks?

I'm 100% with JB Weld & here in OR you only see the party lights when you do something very very stupid. As it should be. When I head to the mountains...freedom on all conceivable fronts.

I've had nothing but amazing experiences in CA (other than a stolen bike). One would think from these forums and the seemingly endless supply of expats that CA is a terrible place.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

As if Rangers have the time to police trails in between trail maintenance, conservation work, investigating poaching (hunters), illegal logging, clearing trails after storms, tracking herds and large animals, giving presentations, guiding tourists...

Call the ranger station if you see a fire, or know there is a high level of trail poaching going on and they can setup for a day and catch a lot of offenders. Call the police for anything you feel is a regular crime. Anything else requires you be willing to volunteer your time, because they don't have any to spare. 

A popular park I won't name near me has almost two hundred miles of trail. Of the five rangers, three work full time administering the park entrance and campgrounds, leaving two to deal with the trails. Needless to say, it's rare the full length of trails get walked by the rangers in any given week. Mostly they spend their time updating the trailhead boards and checking out reports of damage/vandalism/down trees.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

BTW, don't know if this is relevant to the current discussion (which by this time is far removed from the topic), but the officers that we encountered volunteered they were off-duty and hired by the city of Irvine to monitor the trails.


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## EABiker (Jun 24, 2004)

Trail cams. We have them on our trails, mainly watching for illegal dumping, dirt bikes, etc. They see who goes into the woods, and who comes out, and what they are carrying. When they find an offender, they pay a visit to their residence, thanks to their license plate. All we would need to do is point out this fact to illegal e-bike riders and they would always be "looking over their shoulder" when they ride, not knowing if they are busted or not.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> I thought rangers had full policing powers...at least in National Parks?


Pretty much as Flamingtaco said. I deal with NPS rangers in a nearby National Recreation Area. I reported an incident once and met with a ranger. He ended up calling a LE Ranger in (not sure what the actual term is). This was a different type of situation, I had found a grave where someone had buried something (ended up being a dog).

The other day, I was talking with a gentleman who was about to ride muddy trails. A ranger showed up and the guy asked if he could ride and the ranger hesitated a long time and then said, "well, I can't stop you". I think the biggest infraction around me is dogs off leash and people littering by dropping their dog poop bags on the side of the trails.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

fos'l said:


> BTW, don't know if this is relevant to the current discussion (which by this time is far removed from the topic), but the officers that we encountered volunteered they were off-duty and hired by the city of Irvine to monitor the trails.


I wonder what sort of enforcement powers they would have in that situation then? Essentially, they're now security guards, no longer leos.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

fos'l said:


> BTW, don't know if this is relevant to the current discussion (which by this time is far removed from the topic), but the officers that we encountered volunteered they were off-duty and hired by the city of Irvine to monitor the trails.


Honestly I think this is the situation is most riding area's around California. I really don't see any true enforcement of anything unless guys with the e-motorcycles (not class 1 or 2 or 3 ped-assist) show up and start rampaging on the trails.

Everything regarding electric bicycles seems to be in a state of "what-ifs" for the time being.


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

EABiker said:


> Trail cams. We have them on our trails, mainly watching for illegal dumping, dirt bikes, etc. They see who goes into the woods, and who comes out, and what they are carrying. When they find an offender, they pay a visit to their residence, thanks to their license plate. All we would need to do is point out this fact to illegal e-bike riders and they would always be "looking over their shoulder" when they ride, not knowing if they are busted or not.


Drumroll.... just ride to the trail no license plate!

But really I know every ranger in my district. My ex was one of them, they don't give a hoot about bikes of any kind unless you're riding a dirt bike with no spark arrestor. They are more worried about getting shot and Burried by illegal poachers (the kind with guns). And tracking animal populations/saving spotted toads.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

#1ORBUST said:


> Drumroll.... just ride to the trail no license plate!
> 
> But really I know every ranger in my district. My ex was one of them, they don't give a hoot about bikes of any kind unless you're riding a dirt bike with no spark arrestor. They are more worried about getting shot and Burried by illegal poachers (the kind with guns). And tracking animal populations/saving spotted toads.


I think we are talking about very different types of Rangers here.... Your Ex Sounds like a National Forrest Service Employee, in most cases we are talking about county or city employees that are rangers.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Harry & KJ, good points. Probably they're available as a "presence". To be fair, they probably help if someone has a problem. Also, as stated above, Rangers have so many other duties and there's so few of them, they hardly can monitor trails,and e-MTB's are so rare, probably not a concern (except on the forums). My wife and I were on a fire road going to Saddleback "Peak" (only 5200' high, but a fair ascent from sea level) when we saw some ICE dirt bikes. Shortly after we encountered a Ranger and told him about it, but he said he wouldn't chase them because if one of them got hurt getting away he was afraid they would sue the department.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

fos'l said:


> My wife and I were on a fire road going to Saddleback "Peak" (only 5200' high, but a fair ascent from sea level) when we saw some ICE dirt bikes. Shortly after we encountered a Ranger and told him about it, but he said he wouldn't chase them because if one of them got hurt getting away he was afraid they would sue the department.


Also, Dirt Bikes are allowed on those Fire Roads up on Saddle Back..... So are 4x4 trucks. Unless something has changed I am not aware of. Now Single Track trails are a very different story up there.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

US Forest Service just put an order in for 4000 of these










Lulz


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Klurejr said:


> Also, Dirt Bikes are allowed on those Fire Roads up on Saddle Back..... So are 4x4 trucks. Unless something has changed I am not aware of. Now Single Track trails are a very different story up there.


Not to argue, but AFAIK, only allowed if they are street legal not the off-road variety. These had no plates or street equipment.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

fos'l said:


> Not to argue, but AFAIK, only allowed if they are street legal not the off-road variety. These had no plates or street equipment.


It is not arguing, it is discussion.

If you look at the OHV approved areas linked here:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cleveland/recreation/ohv/?cid=stelprdb5276617

Was the fire road you were on part of any of these? I was specifically thinking of the Trabuco North area. That is in the same general area you are speaking of I believe, the trail head for the San Juan Trail is at the bottom of the Trabuco North Map, the fireroad for approved OHV riding goes right up on to Santiago Peak which is one of the peaks that makes the "saddle" of Saddle Back.....

EDIT: upon further review of the map and legend it looks like even though trabuco north is an OHV area.... there are no specific roads or trails in that area for non-plated motorcycles.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

127.0.0.1 said:


> US Forest Service just put an order in for 4000 of these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Some kind of meter? No clue here.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

127.0.0.1 said:


> US Forest Service just put an order in for 4000 of these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not surprising, they know whats already beginning.

I am surprised more major areas have lack of ranger presence and they have no power to issue fines.

Here, both Iowa and Illinois they have rights for fully enforceable fines and can "cuff n stuff" till county arrives to make a formal arrest.

Our rangers are pretty cool but don't put up with crap. Which I like because keeps the garbage away from the trails. They made sure its known it won't be tolerated and youll pay for it.

As for e-bike situation, hasnt really been discussed yet but the policing is there if its an issue.

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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Klurejr said:


> It is not arguing, it is discussion.
> 
> If you look at the OHV approved areas linked here:
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cleveland/recreation/ohv/?cid=stelprdb5276617
> ...


Yes, Main Divide, Maple Springs, Bedford, Indian Truck Trail are all legal for street legal vehicles. No Green sticker vehicles. The Wildomar OHV area on the other side of Ortega Hwy allows Green Sticker/non street legal vehicles.


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## Double Butted (Jan 27, 2015)

So far I haven't had anyone even ask me about my bike either in the parking lot, or when riding. I don't think they're even noticing. Which isn't surprising.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Double Butted said:


> So far I haven't had anyone even ask me about my bike either in the parking lot, or when riding. I don't think they're even noticing. Which isn't surprising.


no one is noticing, until you are noticed, and then someone notifies someone to notice you


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

RAKC Ind said:


> Not surprising, they know whats already beginning.
> 
> I am surprised more major areas have lack of ranger presence and they have no power to issue fines.
> 
> ...


IME, which isn't completely comprehensive, as has been stated, "ranger" is just a generic title whose job description varies widely. In the city and state parks here, they are more custodians of the land itself, with incidental contact with the public and education as needed. They have varied backgrounds, but come more from a recreation side of things. USFS rangers in my district are almost all field biologists or similar, and they spend much of their time only dealing with the problems people cause, trash, fires, illegal camping, etc. All of agencies are understaffed and have far too much acerage to manage to do much more than try to keep it clean.

In most agencies, you need to undergo law enforcement training to write tickets and to certainly be armed, which in todays environment, isn't a bad idea if you're going to piss people off in the woods. So, for most rangers SOP around here is to simply tell people to stop doing whatever they're doing and move on. I can count on one hand the number of times I've randomly run into rangers on the trails in the last 30 years, they're spread thin.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I rarely see one on the trails. In the parks and at trail head is see almost ever time i go out.

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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

Good news. I had a conversation with a couple of other guys who ride eMTBs. We decided to fund enforcement activity targeting unsafe riders and poachers. There are all sorts of safety rules that are routinely broken by riders. Bikes without proper license stickers from owner's city of residence (if required) can be seized under asset forfeiture laws until possessor can prove ownership. We don't want access to trails impeded by scofflaws and hooligans.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> Good news. I had a conversation with a couple of other guys who ride eMTBs. We decided to fund enforcement activity targeting unsafe riders and poachers. There are all sorts of safety rules that are routinely broken by riders. Bikes without proper license stickers from owner's city of residence (if required) can be seized under asset forfeiture laws until possessor can prove ownership. We don't want access to trails impeded by scofflaws and hooligans.


Let us know how this works out for you. I suspect you may encounter some resistance, some of which may be overwhelming when you make attempts to hold someone against their will. Should be good for some lulz.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> We decided to fund enforcement activity


HAHAHAH...WTF is that supposed to even mean?
You bring your piggybank to the local ranger station and try to work a deal paying for OT for them to set up bicycle sting operations?

Why not try something that ISN'T incredibly stupid instead?
Maybe organize an e-bike advocacy group and start putting money into maintaining trails and lobbying for legal access? You know, something that actually has been demonstrated to work?


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

slapheadmofo said:


> HAHAHAH...WTF is that supposed to even mean?
> You bring your piggybank to the local ranger station and try to work a deal paying for OT for them to set up bicycle sting operations?
> 
> Why not try something that ISN'T incredibly stupid instead?
> Maybe organize an e-bike advocacy group and start putting money into maintaining trails and lobbying for legal access? You know, something that actually has been demonstrated to work?


It's our money. We are interested in punishing poachers. Especially the ones claiming that they are "all about access". We can fund full time employees dedicated to targeted enforcement. The only relevance from an eMTB perspective is that we have the money, and enjoy nailing the self-righteous. In the real work $s trump miles ridden per week and hours worked in a bike shop. This forum is an awesome recruiting and fund raising tool, by the way.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> Good news. I had a conversation with a couple of other guys who ride eMTBs. We decided to fund enforcement activity targeting unsafe riders and poachers. There are all sorts of safety rules that are routinely broken by riders. Bikes without proper license stickers from owner's city of residence (if required) can be seized under asset forfeiture laws until possessor can prove ownership. We don't want access to trails impeded by scofflaws and hooligans.


That's funny! What do you think might happen when some wannabe trail cop attempts to seize someone's bike?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

The idiocy has reached never before seen heights. I predict felony charges for Bjorn and his stooges.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> It's our money. We are interested in punishing poachers. Especially the ones claiming that they are "all about access". We can fund full time employees dedicated to targeted enforcement. The only relevance from an eMTB perspective is that we have the money, and enjoy nailing the self-righteous. In the real work $s trump miles ridden per week and hours worked in a bike shop.


Stop...I can't breath...you're killing me...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

ut:


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> Bikes without proper license stickers from owner's city of residence (if required) can be seized under asset forfeiture laws until possessor can prove ownership.


So you're going to seize people's bikes and then research to see if they are required to have a license sticker? That should work out real well.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nope - he's going to hand money to some dudes with plastic badges, give them a big pep talk about how they're saving the world from...something or other, then they're going to take the money, buy a big bag of weed and some drinks and snacks, then go sit in the woods getting baked, laughing about how stupid their 'mission' is, and not giving a ****.

I remember when we had a few vigilante whackjobs out on our trails taking pictures of bikers and trying to get in people's way. We had a pretty damn good time with them. They ended up with lots of pictures of fingers and bare asses, and also got pretty good at dodging bikes. We would play turnabout and take videos of them acting all crazy and accosting people on the trails. Anyone wanna guess who got bounced in the end?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

SHM, thanks for the hearty yuk; probably have a good day and a half of snickering from your post. BTW, I think some of the asses might be posting here.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fos'l said:


> SHM, thanks for the hearty yuk; probably have a good day and a half of snickering from your post. BTW, I think some of the asses might be posting here.


 At least on of them definitely is.

We had all sorts of crazy stuff going on locally during a big trail access fight we went through a few years back. Wannabe rangers with cameras, booby-traps, dirty old hippies pooping in the middle of trails, tons of contentious town board meetings...tons of laughs to be had.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

so what are you gonna do when your emtb catches up with me on the trail ?
pull out your badge proving you have been deputized and haul me in ?
write me a ticket ? or just talk loudly at me while I stream our encounter
to youtube live ?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> At least on of them definitely is.
> 
> We had all sorts of crazy stuff going on locally during a big trail access fight we went through a few years back. Wannabe rangers with cameras, booby-traps, dirty old hippies pooping in the middle of trails, tons of contentious town board meetings...tons of laughs to be had.


SHM, we had only one meeting about 15 years ago AFAICR and the equestrians were the most opposed vocally to MTB, but by the end of the evening everything seemed resolved. Been doing everything I can on the trails to keep it copacetic. Funny thing is the hikers and equestrians (with a rare exception) always seem friendly when we encounter them; only ***** are the occasional lycra-clad MTB.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

fos'l said:


> Funny thing is the hikers and equestrians (with a rare exception) always seem friendly when we encounter them; only ***** are the occasional lycra-clad MTB.


Yeah those lycra clad idiots are total douchbags, every one of them.......


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

fos'l said:


> SHM, we had only one meeting about 15 years ago AFAICR and the equestrians were the most opposed vocally to MTB, but by the end of the evening everything seemed resolved. Been doing everything I can on the trails to keep it copacetic. Funny thing is the hikers and equestrians (with a rare exception) always seem friendly when we encounter them; only ***** are the occasional lycra-clad MTB.


I think it's rare that people will be confrontational on a trail, it mostly happens when people can act anonymously. In 30 years, I've only run across an handful of truly asshat hikers or riders, and a fair number in each camp who feel mistakenly entitiled. It usually comes out when there's public input on new trails, in bike specific trail sabotage and trail building vandalism. People steal and deface our signs, pull down flagging, things like that continually.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Harry, agree totally. We've been fortunate here without some of the "sabotage"-type problems you describe. Occasionally some strava-junkie will yell at me as he's bombing along a trail (usually oncoming) and yells to get out of the way. A carefully placed obscenity usually is my response.


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

127.0.0.1 said:


> so what are you gonna do when your emtb catches up with me on the trail ?
> pull out your badge proving you have been deputized and haul me in ?
> write me a ticket ? or just talk loudly at me while I stream our encounter
> to youtube live ?


A sworn peace officer will write you a citation. If you choose to escalate the matter from simple poaching to something more serious, I guess that's your judgement call.

We just write the checks. The guys with the guns can deal with the militant a-holes.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Man, sorry guys, California is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. Sure am glad we don't have all this drama where I live.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> A sworn peace officer will write you a citation. If you choose to escalate the matter from simple poaching to something more serious, I guess that's your judgement call.
> 
> We just write the checks. The guys with the guns can deal with the militant a-holes.


I'm confident that scenario will never happen on the trails in my area and if it did I'd seriously consider moving, but if for some crazy reason a citizen cop came along down the trail and tried to write me a citation I'd ride away just like any other reasonable person.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

chazpat said:


> Man, sorry guys, California is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. Sure am glad we don't have all this drama where I live.


Seriously, this kind of thing is strictly on the forums.... real life is much different.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

well, my trail cam caught the first shakedown


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> At least on of them definitely is.
> 
> We had all sorts of crazy stuff going on locally during a big trail access fight we went through a few years back. Wannabe rangers with cameras, booby-traps, dirty old hippies pooping in the middle of trails, tons of contentious town board meetings...tons of laughs to be had.





Klurejr said:


> Seriously, this kind of thing is strictly on the forums.... real life is much different.


lol, I guess SHM is a good story teller! Oh wait, he's in Mass; always get his location confused with OMS. Or is OMS in Washington?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

chazpat said:


> lol, I guess SHM is a good story teller!


Yup, just making **** up...you have no idea LOL. I've got stories that you wouldn't believe if you weren't there about these EarthFirst nuts we had to deal with.
The possibility of E-bikes using these trails would've nailed the coffin shut as far as making them happen. 1000% true, no BS.

Group wants to ban biking in park - Sentinel & Enterprise

WEST appeals Crocker Pond plan - Sentinel & Enterprise

Westminster mountain bikers blaze their own trail - Sentinel & Enterprise

"Powers was critical of Donna Brownell for opposing the trails when she's never been on them. She said she would like to go out to them, but walks with a walker or cane and hasn't been on any trail since 2004 and has relied on video footage of the trail. "


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Wheeled locusts don't forget that


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> Yup, just making **** up...you have no idea LOL. I've got stories that you wouldn't believe if you weren't there about these EarthFirst nuts we had to deal with.
> The possibility of E-bikes using these trails would've nailed the coffin shut as far as making them happen. 1000% true, no BS.
> 
> Group wants to ban biking in park - Sentinel & Enterprise
> ...


 I didn't read anything about e bikes being the problem , it seems bad behaver from reg MT bikers riding hiker only trails and I would bet scaring hikers with strav speeds and setting fast times . E bikers are more trail friendly for all trail user,s I have worked with the local club and the park mangers to open our trails to some E bikes , and prove this every time I ride on any MT bike trail . Its not if you ride a Reg MT bike or a E bike its the way you ride what you ride , when was the last time you stopped and talked to the hikers??? was you friendly to the horse ppl???. E bikes help with trail conflicts because we don't need to carry speed or bomb down hills and we can and do stop n start on a trail easly .


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rider95 said:


> I didn't read anything about e bikes being the problem , it seems bad behaver from reg MT bikers riding hiker only trails and I would bet scaring hikers with strav speeds and setting fast times . E bikers are more trail friendly for all trail user,s I have worked with the local club and the park mangers to open our trails to some E bikes , and prove this every time I ride on any MT bike trail . Its not if you ride a Reg MT bike or a E bike its the way you ride what you ride , when was the last time you stopped and talked to the hikers??? was you friendly to the horse ppl???.


I stop and talk to hikers all the time, horseback riders too. My encounters with them are almost 100% positive. I also happen to be an adrenaline fueled lycra clad strava junkie.

You are full of horse poop.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

rider95 said:


> I didn't read anything about e bikes being the problem


It was not directed at eBikes, it was in response to a comment about anti-bike attitudes in MA in general.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Klurejr said:


> It was not directed at eBikes, it was in response to a comment about anti-bike attitudes in MA in general.


Not even in general actually. MA is very very pro MTB.
This just shows the power that a few zealots can have.

I actually posted mainly in response to what seemed like a snide comment about me making up stories about nuts in the forest. Trust me, when you get almost weekly newspaper articles in a number of publications over a course of years regarding what we went through, the stuff that is shared publicly is only the tip of the iceberg. Most of the folks here have ~ZERO idea as to what they're talking about when it comes to access. ZERO.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

rider95 said:


> I didn't read anything about e bikes being the problem , it seems bad behaver from reg MT bikers riding hiker only trails and I would bet scaring hikers with strav speeds and setting fast times .


You are so clueless, it's ridiculous. I almost pity you, if not for the fact you constantly try to wield your ignorance as a weapon.

I built the trails specifically for mtb, with full permissions, and in the end when the LMs ended up wanting to designate them for MTB only (as in NO HIKING) I went to bat for full shared access and made that happen too. We have Strava-free zones in areas that see the most shared use. The trails see more hikers than bikers, and I'm on a first name basis with most of them. I'm constantly thanked by hikers and bikers for making the trails happen, and for sticking out the fight for years to get them approved. I have other local trails that are perfectly legit for e-bikes, as well as more that are fine for motos and even some that work for ATVs, two other fun types of machines of which I have a shed full of, right beside my MTBs.

So please, STFU and let the adults speak once in awhile. Maybe you'll learn something.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

127.0.0.1 said:


> Wheeled locusts don't forget that


If you dig around their old propaganda, you'll eventually find a lengthy attack on yours truly. Pretty awesome.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> I actually posted mainly in response to what seemed like a snide comment about me making up stories about nuts in the forest. Trust me, when you get almost weekly newspaper articles in a number of publications over a course of years regarding what we went through, the stuff that is shared publicly is only the tip of the iceberg. Most of the folks here have ~ZERO idea as to what they're talking about when it comes to access. ZERO.


If you are talking about my comment as being snide, I was just pointing out that what you have observed in person was not "just online" as Klurejr had defended the California craziness as being mostly confined to. As I mentioned, I was thinking you were also in California. I'm just thankful we don't have hippies dropping a load in the trails, trail sabotage, illegal ebikes on trails, wanna be law enforcement harassing people, car drivers purposely hitting cyclist (though Nashville isn't that far away), etc where I ride. I've read enough of your posts to know that you have put a lot of time and energy into trail advocacy and my comment of you being a good story teller was a sarcastic response to Klurejr, meant in good spirits.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

slapheadmofo said:


> Not even in general actually. MA is very very pro MTB.
> This just shows the power that a few zealots can have.
> 
> I actually posted mainly in response to what seemed like a snide comment about me making up stories about nuts in the forest. Trust me, when you get almost weekly newspaper articles in a number of publications over a course of years regarding what we went through, the stuff that is shared publicly is only the tip of the iceberg. Most of the folks here have ~ZERO idea as to what they're talking about when it comes to access. ZERO.


Amen brother :thumbsup:


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

chazpat said:


> If you are talking about my comment as being snide, I was just pointing out that what you have observed in person was not "just online" as Klurejr had defended the California craziness as being mostly confined to. As I mentioned, I was thinking you were also in California. I'm just thankful we don't have hippies dropping a load in the trails, trail sabotage, illegal ebikes on trails, wanna be law enforcement harassing people, car drivers purposely hitting cyclist (though Nashville isn't that far away), etc where I ride. I've read enough of your posts to know that you have put a lot of time and energy into trail advocacy and my comment of you being a good story teller was a sarcastic response to Klurejr, meant in good spirits.


 All good my man. Cheers!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Harryman said:


> Amen brother :thumbsup:


You sir are one of the notable exceptions.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> I stop and talk to hikers all the time, horseback riders too. My encounters with them are almost 100% positive. I also happen to be an adrenaline fueled lycra clad strava junkie.
> 
> You are full of horse poop.


 adrenaline fueled lycra clad strava junkie like you are why we need trail enforcement


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rider95 said:


> adrenaline fueled lycra clad strava junkie like you are why we need trail enforcement


Because I'm friendly and courteous to other trail users? People around here are ok with that.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

rider95 said:


> adrenaline fueled lycra clad strava junkie like you are why we need trail enforcement


The only actual issues we've ever had as far as people actually instigating confrontation on the trail have 100% involved unstable old whackjobs such as yourself. Didn't you claim you got in a fistfight on a kiddie trail with somebody recently? Ever think that maybe, just maybe, it's not the other folks that are the problem?


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> The only actual issues we've ever had as far as people actually instigating confrontation on the trail have 100% involved unstable old whackjobs such as yourself. Didn't you claim you got in a fistfight on a kiddie trail with somebody recently? Ever think that maybe, just maybe, it's not the other folks that are the problem?


Yeah I had to drop a adrenaline fueled lycra clad strava junkie phone thief like you and JB your so full of it


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

You seem like a hothead '95. Anger management issues perhaps?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rider95 said:


> Yeah I had to drop a adrenaline fueled lycra clad strava junkie phone thief like you and JB your so full of it


Who was allegedly trying to steal your crappy phone, for some unknown reason..........


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

rider95 said:


> adrenaline fueled lycra clad strava junkie phone thief like you


Quoted for sheer craziness. :arf:

I'm definitely gonna steal me a flip phone on tonite's ride. Maybe 2.
:thumbsup:


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

don't know whether to neg, or rep, rider95, it's just too good.

I'll just neg myself


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Looks like it goes both ways (shocker):

In one incident on a Friday night, earlier this month, a heavily pregnant woman became a victim of moped criminals.
In a terrifying attack that took only a few seconds, the 31-year-old mother-to-be was knocked to the ground after thieves mounted the pavement from behind her to snatch a mobile phone out of her hand.

The moped and scooter crime wave that has swept London


And before anyone says it, yes, I do realize these are probably mostly gas powered.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

I sense Mike V. possessing rider95's soul.


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