# Esker Hayduke with 29ers vs Japhy



## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

Looking at building up a steel singlespeed 29er with a 120mm fork, and the Japhy is the obvious contender in the Esker lineup, as it was designed for that fork length and wheel size. I've also heard of folks running the Hayduke with 29" wheels to get a slightly higher bottom bracket, which is an intriguing concept. However, I'm a little confused about the fork travel on the Hayduke. On the website, it's specced with a 120mm fork, but I've also seen mention of it running a 140mm fork, which would disqualify it for my needs? Any input on that point of confusion, or comparisons from folks who have experience with the Esker bikes, would be greatly appreciated.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

We think alike! I asked Esker the exact same question a few weeks ago and this was their response:



> Hayduke has always been a very versatile bike and can run both different wheel sizes. We have spec’ed it with different forks in the past. That is probably why you’re getting mixed information although it sounds like it might also be getting mixed up with Japhy. I will look into that.
> 
> Net years Hayduke model will be slightly different. We will release that information as it is launched in early 2023.
> 
> ...


Note: inventory on these is basically gone unless you want one of the few smalls and larges that are left, or you have the cash for a titanium model. There were zero steel Haydukes available when I checked last.

There is probably no point in considering the most recent Hayduke, unless you're looking at a used or NOS one somewhere. I hope they don't change a whole lot on the next iteration.

If I had the forethought to do so, I would have ordered a Hayduke when they had them a few months ago, but there were complications. The Japhy is too long and low for my tastes.


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## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

mack_turtle said:


> We think alike! I asked Esker the exact same question a few weeks ago and this was their response:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So the Hayduke is now dedicated 140? Rats. Yeah, I honestly think we are trying to build essentially the same bike, so I will be watching to see what pops up for you.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

@snow snakes that was not my conclusion. The geo chart for the Hayduke says it's based around a 492mm fork, which is measured at 30% sag. That sounds like like a 120mm 29er fork to me. I would not hesitate to use a Hayduke with a 120mm 29er fork. If I was going to build it with 27.5+ wheels, a 130–140 fork might make more sense.

However, you can't buy a Hayduke until the next iteration comes out in a few months, and Esker hasn't released details about it.


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## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

mack_turtle said:


> @snow snakes that was not my conclusion. The geo chart for the Hayduke says it's based around a 492mm fork, which is measured at 30% sag. That sounds like like a 120mm 29er fork to me. I would not hesitate to use a Hayduke with a 120mm 29er fork. If I was going to build it with 27.5+ wheels, a 130–140 fork might make more sense.
> 
> However, you can't buy a Hayduke until the next iteration comes out in a few months, and Esker hasn't released details about it.


Roger. Then I will just have to cross my fingers that they leave it nice and moderate! There's a certain set of trails around here that I used to love when I had a steeper bike with less travel and fewer gears, and I just want to recapture that magic.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I think we discussed this elsewhere, but I've been after something similar. On my extremely short list of frames that tick all the boxes are:

Chumba Sendero: fantastic but above my pay grade,
Neuhaus Hummingbird: see above,
Esker Hayduke: out of stock, or
Custom Marino.
I finalized my design with Elijah put down my deposit for a Marino this week. Now Peru is in political turmoil and I don't know if that's going to affect my bike. I hope everyone is safe.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Which did you choose 4130 steel or did you go with one of the other options?


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Funoutside said:


> Which did you choose 4130 steel or did you go with one of the other options?


Assuming you're asking me, I requested. Reynolds 725 or whatever that nicer tubing is.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Just throwing in my two cents. Keep in mind that when going from a 27.5x2.8 to a 29 x 2.4 you are changing the total wheel diameter (including tire) by 20mm, so only a difference of 10mm in bottom bracket height. This is far different than going from a 27.5 to 29 in the same size tire, where the 38mm difference in total wheel diameter equals 19mm of bottom bracket change.

I would grab a hummingbird and not look back. I think the geometry is far better (the Eskar bikes have really short headtubes) and Nick builds really nice frames. I will also say the powdercoater he uses does really nice work (better quality than my Waltworks), having seen his frames in person at the powdercoater. Also, if you want to go crazy, he is starting to offer his bikes in Ti.

My personal view, don't get caught up in what tubes are being used, select a builder you trust. I have had two Waltworks frames, the only reason I even have an idea what tubes they use is when Nick looked at my frame, he told me. Builders use a variety of tubesets from different manufactures depending on need. This is one of the great things about a small builder that does custom or semi custom, they can select the tubes they have found to work best for a rider's needs. As one builder said years ago, you don't go to a steakhouse and then tell the chef what beef to select and how to cook it, you order a meal. If they are not offering the finished product you want, go to a different place.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Related discussion 27.5+ vs. 29+ (Esker Hayduke vs. Esker Japhy)


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Cary said:


> I would grab a hummingbird and not look back. I think the geometry is far better (the Eskar bikes have really short headtubes)


I would like to agree, but someone who is looking at a Hayduke probably has a limited budget. I could be wrong.

The last Hayduke frame was $900* and includes a headset. A Hummingbird is $1,950 + 400 if you want it singlespeed, plus whatever a headset costs to make it comparable to the Hayduke.

There are very good reasons why a badass frame like what Neuhaus is producing costs that much, but for a person with a hard stop on budget, it's a non-starter.

*Don't be surprised if that price goes up, just like everything else, next year.


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## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

@Cary for my personal case I would be putting a 70mm riser on the esker, so I’m not too worried about the stack. However, if next gen’s price goes up I’m just going to utilize my local custom builder.


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## goodymarv (Jun 25, 2020)

Back in 2020 I ran a Hayduke with 27.5x2.6 and a 120 fork, then switched to 29x2.4 and a 2017 Pike 29+ fork, which is 120mm but has the AtoC of a 130mm fork for some reason. I emailed back and forth with Esker during the Fall of 2020 trying to figure out if the higher AtoC was approved for the frame, and they would not explicitly endorse it without more info from their engineers. That December the Japhy was released based around a 120 fork and the Hayduke was re-specced with a 140, which I think was an attempt to differentiate the frames for prospective buyers. So I guess the engineers checked off the longer fork for that new spec.

I ended up buying a Japhy frame and selling the hayduke frame, 120mm 27.5 fork, and wheels to a friend, and he runs it that way in SW CO and loves it. I run the Japhy SS with 2.8 out front and 2.6 in the rear and I love it. Sometimes I run a rigid fork and the shorter AtoC is noticeable compared to my 29+ Pike. The head tube is pretty short on the Japhy - riser bars are definitely the way to go.


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