# Dyna Sys 10 speed compatability with 9 speed (Shimano systems)



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I just set up a ten speed system on my bike using a mix of 9 speed and 10 speed parts. Since there is a lot of confusing and contradictory information about Shimano dyna sys 10 speed, I thought I would post up some compatability issues I have found.

1. Road 10 speed derailleurs and shifters are completely incompatible with mountain (dyna sys) 10 speed derailleurs and shifters. The cable pull by the shifters is different for both front and rear. 

2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road “flat bar” 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push.

3. Dyna sys 10 speed rear derailleurs cannot be used with 9 speed shifters. Road 10 speed derailleurs can be used with 9 speed shifters.

4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.

5. 10 speed road chains are different from 10 speed mountain (dyna sys) chains. The dyna sys chain is a directional chain that is made to shift better with 10 speed mountain drivetrains.

6. 10 speed road cassettes and 10 speed mountain cassette use the same sprocket spacing.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

You left out...

Shimano 9/10 speed road front deraileur cable pull geometry is different than shimano mtb front derailleurs, so the equivalent front shifters do not work with front derailleurs from the other model line. That's with fully indexed shifters anyway. With gripshifters/thumbshifters/bar end shifters where you can trim the derailleur cage to wherever you want it, that's not a problem. Also there are a couple companies that offer top-pull adapters for shimano front road derailleurs and these alter the cable pull geometry also making them compatible with indexed shifters. The road flat bar shifters of course work perfectly well with the road front derailleurs when used on a mountain bike unless of course you run a top-pull adapter as well.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

nice thanks for the info. 10 spd set up is getting ordered now that i dont have to get a 350 buck new/same crank.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

ljsmith said:


> I just set up a ten speed system on my bike using a mix of 9 speed and 10 speed parts. Since there is a lot of confusing and contradictory information about Shimano dyna sys 10 speed, I thought I would post up some compatability issues I have found.
> 
> 1. Road 10 speed derailleurs and shifters are completely incompatible with mountain (dyna sys) 10 speed derailleurs and shifters. The cable pull by the shifters is different for both front and rear.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this in a more clear manner than Shimano is willing to provide.

I have read reports from reputable sources that the mtb 9 and 10 sp FDs/shifter do not play well when mixed.


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## Muahdib (Apr 13, 2010)

Excellent info and thanks. I have gotten all 10 speed parts for my first build but wanted to use the double SLX cranks (9 speed) that have such a good price going right now. Pretty well had my question answered in another thread but still good to get the info from another source.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

ljsmith said:


> I just set up a ten speed system on my bike using a mix of 9 speed and 10 speed parts. Since there is a lot of confusing and contradictory information about Shimano dyna sys 10 speed, I thought I would post up some compatability issues I have found.
> 
> 1. Road 10 speed derailleurs and shifters are completely incompatible with mountain (dyna sys) 10 speed derailleurs and shifters. The cable pull by the shifters is different for both front and rear.
> 
> ...


Nice, probably should be a sticky on this forum:thumbsup:


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

shiggy said:


> I have read reports from reputable sources that the mtb 9 and 10 sp FDs/shifter do not play well when mixed.


From what I understand the front 10 speed shifter is identical to the 9 speed shifter. The difference is in the geometry of the front derailleur. The 10 speed front derailleur moves slightly less per shift due to the 10 speed crankset using thinner rings with closer spacing. You can interchange the front derailleurs, but they will be very difficult to adjust. A 9 speed front derailleur on a 10 speed crankset will slightly overshift each ring. A 10 speed front derailleur on a 9 speed crankset will slightly undershift each ring. What is interesting is that the right 10 speed shifter body looks totally different than the left. It is huge, and the lever looks totally different than the left.

The Bottom line: match the derailleur to the crankset. If it is a 9 speed crankset, use a 9 speed front derailleur. If it is a 10 speed crankset use a 10 speed front derailleur.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

DeeEight said:


> You left out...
> 
> Shimano 9/10 speed road front deraileur cable pull geometry is different than shimano mtb front derailleurs, so the equivalent front shifters do not work with front derailleurs from the other model line.


You are correct. I was just making the (bad) assumption that people would not be using road shifters on a mountain bike. However, flat bar road shifters do use the same cable pull for the front derailleur as mountain shifters, they are actually LX level shifters that have been given a trim abilty.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

ljsmith said:


> I was just making the (bad) assumption that people would not be using road shifters on a mountain bike.


I've been thinking about doing this since the road FB shifters became available, only stopped by the hope that 10-speed gripshifters might become available. I might still do it, as I could thus keep all my shifters and rear derailleurs compatible (road and MTB), potentially saving grief later on.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Great news. Per Shimano's rep yesterday, mixing 10-speed chain and shifters with a 9-speed crankset "absolutely will not work". Please pass that crack pipe.

Also, when asked about fitting the new 3 x 10 cranks with a 22t granny, he said it was no longer possible, due to the bolt circle diameter being changed, and that "if you need that low of a gear, you should quit mountain biking". Sheesh!

Thanks, guys, for the real info on what actually works on the bike, as opposed to the CADD computer simulations (or are they just marketing simulations?).


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## rsullivan (May 16, 2009)

*Thats funny cuz.....*



kosmo said:


> Great news. Per Shimano's rep yesterday, mixing 10-speed chain and shifters with a 9-speed crankset "absolutely will not work". Please pass that crack pipe.
> 
> Also, when asked about fitting the new 3 x 10 cranks with a 22t granny, he said it was no longer possible, due to the bolt circle diameter being changed, and that "if you need that low of a gear, you should quit mountain biking". Sheesh!
> 
> Thanks, guys, for the real info on what actually works on the bike, as opposed to the CADD computer simulations (or are they just marketing simulations?).


I recently took the 24tooth granny from the 3x10cranks that came on my 2011fuel and put it on a 9 speed SLX crankset and installed them on my Fuel with no shifting issues. Even changed the front shifter out to a older X9 that I had laying around.. No problems that I could tell....:thumbsup:


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Some salesmen have even less understanding of the concept of truth than do politicians. Then again, politicians are just salesmen with (bigger) delusions of grandeur.

Sounds like the guy you spoke to should be in the Gestapo side of Shimano, rather than a customer-contact role. IME, many of the industry guys who are like this used to be (or still are) not-very-successful racers with lots of attitude left over from their failed competitive careers to inflict on the world.

Also, I find it's always best to actually test all of Shimano's proclamations on compatibility for myself, unless things have been changed so much that they obviously won't work. If there's any doubt, test it, and you'll often be pleasantly less-than-surprised by the result.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

kosmo said:


> Great news. Per Shimano's rep yesterday, mixing 10-speed chain and shifters with a 9-speed crankset "absolutely will not work". Please pass that crack pipe.
> 
> Also, when asked about fitting the new 3 x 10 cranks with a 22t granny, he said it was no longer possible, due to the bolt circle diameter being changed, and that "if you need that low of a gear, you should quit mountain biking". Sheesh!
> 
> Thanks, guys, for the real info on what actually works on the bike, as opposed to the CADD computer simulations (or are they just marketing simulations?).


Remember that Shimano also said that 8 speed was completely incompatible with 9 speed. They have a vested interest is saying this, they want to sell you parts. 10 speed XT and SLX cranks are basically 9 speed crank arms with 10 speed rings/spiders on them. So why would I want to go buy a new crankset that is identical to what I have unless Shimano says my crankset is incompatible. The XTR that hasn't come out yet is a total redesign though.

My personal setup is an 11-28 Ultegra 10 speed cassette, SRAM 1070 chain, SLX 10 speed shifters, XT dyna sys rear derailleur, XT 9 speed front derailleur and an XTR M970 
9 speed crankset. My total 10 speed upgrade cost was $210. Its a cobbled together 10 speed system, but it shifts great. Actually it shifts better than my 9 speed system because I get less chain rub in the front due to the thinner chain, and in the rear it is better (I think) because of the increased cable pull from the shifter.


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## Olano (Mar 24, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> 2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road "flat bar" 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push.


That sounds very similar cable pull with SRAM, doesn't it?

Nice work btw ljsmith!:thumbsup:


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

kosmo said:


> Great news. Per Shimano's rep yesterday, mixing 10-speed chain and shifters with a 9-speed crankset "absolutely will not work". Please pass that crack pipe.
> 
> Also, when asked about fitting the new 3 x 10 cranks with a 22t granny, he said it was no longer possible, due to the bolt circle diameter being changed, and that "if you need that low of a gear, you should quit mountain biking". Sheesh!
> 
> Thanks, guys, for the real info on what actually works on the bike, as opposed to the CADD computer simulations (or are they just marketing simulations?).


Shifters, maybe not. The tooth offset on the 10-sp rings makes the spacing tighter.

The BCD has not changed on the triple cranks, as per Shimano's own tech documents. The double cranks are different.


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## gadget1 (Jul 12, 2009)

thanks, great work. that's answered many of my questions.


However, i'd like to ask one more question. 

Am i able to use a 10speed crank and front derailleur with a 9 speed rear cassette and derailleur? I dare say I'd have to use a 9 speed chain for that. 

cheers
d

thanks
d


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## gadget1 (Jul 12, 2009)

alternatively, will i be able to put my 10 speed chainrings on my old 9 speed cranks.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

gadget1 said:


> alternatively, will i be able to put my 10 speed chainrings on my old 9 speed cranks.


You can use a 9 speed chain with a 10 speed front derailleur and crankset, but you will get a lot more chain rub in certain gear combinations. Are the rings worn out on your 9 speed crank? I have not verified if putting 10 speed rings on a 9 speed crank is okay, bascially I do not know if the ring spacing difference is due to the crankset spider or whether the rings themselves have different offsets. If you do put the 10 speed rings on 9 speed cranks to use with a 9 speed system, let us know how that works.

But your best bet would be to use a 10 speed crankset, 10 speed front derailleur, 9 speed cassette and rear derailleur and then use a 10 speed chain. A 10 speed chain should work just fine on the rear cassette. I have run 8 speed systems with thinner 9 speed chains and they shift just fine, so I am assuming you can use a 10 speed chain on 9 speed.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

gadget1 said:


> However, i'd like to ask one more question.
> 
> Am i able to use a 10speed crank and front derailleur with a 9 speed rear cassette and derailleur? I dare say I'd have to use a 9 speed chain for that.


Yes. No a 10 speed chain works on a 9 speed cassette. As I said earlier, the tooth widths of the rings and cogs (9 or 10) is the same and thus the chain inner plate specification is the same. Its the OUTER chain plate width that changes (10 speed is narrower by approx one quarter of one millimeter) when you go up in speeds because of the tighter cassette spacing.

I have used SRAM 10 speed hollow pin chains on Shimano and Sunrace 9speed cassette equipped road bikes and it shifts the same as with a 9speed chain. If anything you get less chain rub on the bigger ring when in the inner ring and crossing over towards the smaller cogs.

To repeat... 5, 6, 7 and 8 speed chains use the same cog/ring tooth widths (the 3/32" number in a chain description). 9 and 10 speed chains are 11/128", and I believe the Campy 11speed is 10/128". In terms of outer widths, your typical 8 speed chain is about 7.1mm, 9 speed is about 6.6mm, 10 speed is 6.1mm and 11 speed is 5.5mm.


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## magnetik (Jul 25, 2010)

thanks OP. this thread helped me decide that I never want to mix and match components.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

shiggy said:


> Shifters, maybe not. The tooth offset on the 10-sp rings makes the spacing tighter.
> 
> The BCD has not changed on the triple cranks, as per Shimano's own tech documents. The double cranks are different.


Thanks, Shiggy. Current plan is 10-speed cassette, rear shifter, rear deraileur, and chain, paired with existing 9-speed triple crank, front deraileur, and front shifter.

Will post up on how it works out.


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

So, I understand that chainrings are the same thickness, but the ramps are much more elaborate on Dyna Sys- especially on the granny side of the middle ring. Is this necessary to pick up the thinner chain? Has anyone tried running 10-spd chains on the 9-spd rings, particularly XT rings? I'm especially interested in the little ring, since a 24T granny is too big for me. A 22/36 sounds like a great granny for a 29er, and I really want to try it.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

@dam said:


> So, I understand that chainrings are the same thickness, but the ramps are much more elaborate on Dyna Sys- especially on the granny side of the middle ring. Is this necessary to pick up the thinner chain? Has anyone tried running 10-spd chains on the 9-spd rings, particularly XT rings? I'm especially interested in the little ring, since a 24T granny is too big for me. A 22/36 sounds like a great granny for a 29er, and I really want to try it.


Very limited test, but I got the 10-speed cassette, deraileur, and chain on the bike last night. No shifters until tomorrow, but I used the rear limit screws to "lock" the chain into 7th gear, and ON THE WORKSTAND, the front 9-speed crank, rings, der, and shifter functioned perfectly with the 10-speed chain.

More once the shifters show up, and an actual trail test can be done.


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## redtabby (May 16, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> I just set up a ten speed system on my bike using a mix of 9 speed and 10 speed parts. Since there is a lot of confusing and contradictory information about Shimano dyna sys 10 speed, I thought I would post up some compatability issues I have found.
> [...]
> 4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset.


A 2011 MTB with a 2x10 that I just bought came from the factory with a 9spd FD by mistake. Shifting in the front was highly non-optimal. LBS did some tweaking initially before the problem was discovered but it still was barely workable. This was with SRAM S-2200 cranks, a kmc chain and shimano LX FD. If this experience is any indication, I wouldn't bother trying to reuse that 9spd FD when doing a conversion...


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## jbsteven (Aug 12, 2009)

I'm looking forward to getting my 2011 XTR gruppo at Interbike in 2 weeks.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I have a SLX 10 speed group on my 2011 Giant Reign and am not impressed so far. Lots of angry chain slipping on certain combos(not improper chain line combos). Is there a break in period with chain and such?


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## cort (Mar 29, 2004)

I'm sorry but why can't the RD's be interchangeable between 9 and 10 speed systems? The shifter and cassette choice (ie: spacing/pull ratio) dictates which combo I can use, not the RD

Sounds like Shimano marketing to me


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Because in order to improve the reliability of the mtb 10 speed shifting, shimano has finally admitted to themselves that SRAM had the right idea lowering the leverage ratio of the rear derailleur cable pull geometry (which makes the derailleur less sensitive to cable stretch and tension changes from shifter housing movement on a rear suspension bike). So the shifters now pull more cable than before for each shift. SRAM's 10 speed shifters and derailleurs also pull more cable than their 9 speed units. I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1, all shimano derailleurs except the new 10speed mtb (and the 7/8 speed DuraAce) are 2:1 and the shimano 10s MTB is I believe its been measured out as something like 1.25:1.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ +1 

Seems like critical adjustment has been one of the major worries here re 10 speed (and 9 speed too). At least Shimano have made the break at an obvious point, so what will work is as clear as possible.


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## rconceptsinc (Aug 30, 2005)

So can someone confirm that you can put 10 spd chainrings on a 9 spd crankset....and things will shift fine? I have an XTR 970 crankset that I would like to use as 10 spd mountain.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

cort said:


> I'm sorry but why can't the RD's be interchangeable between 9 and 10 speed systems? The shifter and cassette choice (ie: spacing/pull ratio) dictates which combo I can use, not the RD
> 
> Sounds like Shimano marketing to me


They changed the geometry of the RD. The mtb 10-speed RD moves a different distance for the same amount of cable movement than the old RDs.

Same reason you can not use a SRAM RD with Shimano shifters.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

rconceptsinc said:


> So can someone confirm that you can put 10 spd chainrings on a 9 spd crankset....and things will shift fine? I have an XTR 970 crankset that I would like to use as 10 spd mountain.


You do not need to change the rings to use a 10-speed chain.

Reportedly, you can put the 10-speed rings on the 9-speed crank, but you may also need to switch to the 10-speed FD and/or front shifter.


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## rconceptsinc (Aug 30, 2005)

shiggy said:


> You do not need to change the rings to use a 10-speed chain.
> 
> Reportedly, you can put the 10-speed rings on the 9-speed crank, but you may also need to switch to the 10-speed FD and/or front shifter.


Yes I am hoping to re-use my XTR 970 crank on my 2011 Superfly 100 w/ complete Sram X9 10spd. It came with a cheap Shimano 3x10 crank and was wondering if it would work if I just swapped the chainrings on to my XTR 970 crank arms.


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> My personal setup is an 11-28 Ultegra 10 speed cassette, SRAM 1070 chain, SLX 10 speed shifters, XT dyna sys rear derailleur, XT 9 speed front derailleur and an XTR M970
> 9 speed crankset. My total 10 speed upgrade cost was $210.


Thanks for covering this so well.

Is the feel and ease of shifting SLX Dyna-sys the same as XT?

You have an XT rear-der why not SLX? Is there any performance or durability difference other than weight?

I demoed the XT Dyna-sys 24/34/42 11/36 recently and it did shift very easily, even under power. Front and rear.

Your cost must be wholesale I'm guessing. I'd pay more than twice for the same, on-line.

Edit: I think my post was lost in the middle here. ljsmith kindly replied to my PM on these questions.

He mentioned the LX shifters shift as easily as XT and release the derailleur upon lever return rather than how XT's release the der upon initial pressure. (I think that this SLX action is more common like my Sram lever action and may be better to resist unwanted shifts from accidental bumping the lever.)

XT rear der rather than SLX, was for weight considerations, not performance or durability reasons.

And his price was so low due to low demand for 10 speed on eBay when he was bidding.

Thanks again lj !


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## morandi (Jun 20, 2008)

Trying to run 10 speed XT dyna-system with 9 speed crankset. Can't get it to work.
Here is the set up: 10speed chain, 10 cassette, 10 rear der, 10 rear shifter, 9 speed crank, 9 speed front der, 9 speed front shifter.
The front will not shift. I can get it to shift up from the granny but not down from the middle to granny. Tried it with both 9 and 10 speed front shifter, short of bending the cage of the front der I tried every trick in the book. Will try 10 speed front der with 10 speed shifter to see if that works. Sucks the big one.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

morandi said:


> Trying to run 10 speed XT dyna-system with 9 speed crankset. Can't get it to work.
> Here is the set up: 10speed chain, 10 cassette, 10 rear der, 10 rear shifter, 9 speed crank, 9 speed front der, 9 speed front shifter.
> The front will not shift. I can get it to shift up from the granny but not down from the middle to granny. Tried it with both 9 and 10 speed front shifter, short of bending the cage of the front der I tried every trick in the book. Will try 10 speed front der with 10 speed shifter to see if that works. Sucks the big one.


Bending the FD cage is one of the tricks in the book.

But if the front shifting worked before, it should work now. I would restart the setup from square one. Likely just something basic and minor.


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## morandi (Jun 20, 2008)

shiggy said:


> Bending the FD cage is one of the tricks in the book.
> 
> But if the front shifting worked before, it should work now. I would restart the setup from square one. Likely just something basic and minor.


Went back in the garage this morning and got it to work. I raised the front der up and that did the trick. Works fine now. 
Odd though, how my front shifting was great with the old 9 speed rear set up, and just by switching up the rear to 10 speed it went to just not shifting at all. Maybe the level of the chain be higher up with the 36 tooth cog.


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## Mountain_Rocker (Apr 4, 2009)

will a 9 speed Shimano XT Crankset work well with the 10 speed cogs & derraileur? i am planning to buy the DynaSys Rear Derraileur, shifters, chain, & Cogs, to upgrade my old drive system but I don't want to change my old 2010 XT Crank & Shimano LX Front Derraileur.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Mountain_Rocker said:


> will a 9 speed Shimano XT Crankset work well with the 10 speed cogs & derraileur? i am planning to buy the DynaSys Rear Derraileur, shifters, chain, & Cogs, to upgrade my old drive system but I don't want to change my old 2010 XT Crank & Shimano LX Front Derraileur.


The crankset does not care what the cassette and RD are.

People have been using 10-speed chains on 9-speed drivetrains. You should be fine.


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## cort (Mar 29, 2004)

shiggy said:


> They changed the geometry of the RD. The mtb 10-speed RD moves a different distance for the same amount of cable movement than the old RDs.
> 
> Same reason you can not use a SRAM RD with Shimano shifters.


Well I took a XT 9 speed RD and installed it on the new Dyna-sys DT. It wasn't even close to working properly on the stand - I stand corrected


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Are KMC 10 speed road chains compatible with Dyna Sys? They(KMC) say yes but i dont know if they're just trying to sell a product, expensive one at that.


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## Straz85 (Mar 20, 2009)

Okay, I've read through the thread and think I know the answer, but I want 100% confirmation...

My current setup is 2x9, XT RD, SLX shifters, Deore cranks/chainrings. I just had the LBS order XT Dyna Sys RD, shifter, cassette and chain and will be going to 1x9. Will I need a new chainring, or can I keep my current Deore one since I will be 1x9? Thanks!


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

IMO, yes you will need new rings. Would seem cheaper to buy a new crank and sell the old one cause rings are not cheap assuming you can find them. Also, appears that only the stock combo(24,32,42) is available. Im still looking for conformation on KMC chain compatibility, seems like the only thing you can mix in that isnt Shimano. Measured the inner and outer width of the chain links last night and compared to the KMC chain on my road bike, damn close. Like .001's close, should work.


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## Straz85 (Mar 20, 2009)

siv said:


> IMO, yes you will need new rings. Would seem cheaper to buy a new crank and sell the old one cause rings are not cheap assuming you can find them. Also, appears that only the stock combo(24,32,42) is available. Im still looking for conformation on KMC chain compatibility, seems like the only thing you can mix in that isnt Shimano. Measured the inner and outer width of the chain links last night and compared to the KMC chain on my road bike, damn close. Like .001's close, should work.


Ugh, not what I wanted to hear, that's another $200+ that I didn't plan on spending. What is it about the chain rings that makes the 10 speed ones different exactly? Shape of the teeth? I think if I end up having to order that, I'll be going with X.9 instead. Is XT Dyna Sys that much better than X.9, if at all? Thanks.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Straz85 said:


> Ugh, not what I wanted to hear, that's another $200+ that I didn't plan on spending. What is it about the chain rings that makes the 10 speed ones different exactly? Shape of the teeth? I think if I end up having to order that, I'll be going with X.9 instead. Is XT Dyna Sys that much better than X.9, if at all? Thanks.


siv is wrong. Many people have been using 10-speed chains on 9-speed chains for years.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

shiggy said:


> siv is wrong. Many people have been using 10-speed chains on 9-speed chains for years.


Wrong about what? If everything else is specific why not the rings?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

siv said:


> Wrong about what? If everything else is specific why not the rings?


_*Read*_ my reply again.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Got it. Actually just read it again, I dont get it. Please explain so I dont have to speculate and be wrong telling others about Dyna Sys. Thanks.


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## havenzhiv (Dec 16, 2008)

I am trying the following setup: 
9 speed gravity light 32-22 or 32-24 (provided that blackspire 24t inner ring can fit)
XT 10 spd shifters
XT 10 spd fd
XT 10 spd rd
XT 10 spd cassette
XT 10 spd dyna sys chain

any thoughts on this? will it work?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

siv said:


> Got it. Actually just read it again, I dont get it. Please explain so I dont have to speculate and be wrong telling others about Dyna Sys. Thanks.


You can use a 9 speed crankset and rings with a 10 speed chain. Weight weenies have already been doing this for years. I have heard that you need to use a 9 speed front derailleur though, but I have not confirmed this. My 10 speed setup is using the 9 speed XTR 970 crankset and it works flawlessly.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

havenzhiv said:


> I am trying the following setup:
> 9 speed gravity light 32-22 or 32-24 (provided that blackspire 24t inner ring can fit)
> XT 10 spd shifters
> XT 10 spd fd
> ...


It should work fine. However I have heard that a 10 speed front derailleur does not work optimally with a 9 speed crankset, I have not confirmed this though. I personally am using a 9 speed front derailleur and crankset with my system and it works great!


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

ljsmith said:


> You can use a 9 speed crankset and rings with a 10 speed chain. Weight weenies have already been doing this for years. I have heard that you need to use a 9 speed front derailleur though, but I have not confirmed this. My 10 speed setup is using the 9 speed XTR 970 crankset and it works flawlessly.


So as long as you have a 10 speed chain you can run 9 speed up front and 10 in the rear? I guess theres no reason why it wouldnt work. Good news for people with old stuff then! So there is a way for me to go 24/36 up front, I just have to go back to 9 speed front shifter and d-rail and "normal" rings.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

siv said:


> So as long as you have a 10 speed chain you can run 9 speed up front and 10 in the rear? I guess theres no reason why it wouldnt work. Good news for people with old stuff then! So there is a way for me to go 24/36 up front, I just have to go back to 9 speed front shifter and d-rail and "normal" rings.


You are correct. A 10 speed chain works great with a 9 speed crank and front derailleur. I actually like the 10 speed chain with a 9 speed front derailleur because it is easier to set it up so it never rubs due to the slightly wider cage.


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## cstuttle (May 20, 2006)

*SRAM Powerlink*

Anyone tried a SRAM Powelink with an XT 10 spd dyna sys chain?


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## Straz85 (Mar 20, 2009)

ljsmith said:


> You can use a 9 speed crankset and rings with a 10 speed chain. Weight weenies have already been doing this for years. I have heard that you need to use a 9 speed front derailleur though, but I have not confirmed this. My 10 speed setup is using the 9 speed XTR 970 crankset and it works flawlessly.


I checked with the LBS that I bought all the parts at, who happens to also be a Shimano Service Center and just went to a Shimano training and he said 9 speed chainrings with a 10 speed chain in fine.



cstuttle said:


> Anyone tried a SRAM Powelink with an XT 10 spd dyna sys chain?


I asked him about this as well, he said not to do it.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Will the following work together?

- 10-speed Shimano XT crankset

- 9-Speed SRAM cassette
- 9-Speed SRAM Chain
- 9-Speed SRAM X9 Shifter
- 9-Speed SRAM Derailleur


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Will the following work together?
> 
> - 10-speed Shimano XT crankset
> 
> ...


The crank set does not really care what is happening at the rear.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

In a consersation with Paul Thomasberg (Shimano R&D rider/thinker) earlier this week I asked if the Dyna Sys cassette uses the same cog spacing (c-c) as the road 10-speed cassettes.

Yes, it is, but the cogs are thicker, which is one of the reasons for the different chain design. When I followed up asking if mixing road and mtb 10-speed chains and cassettes would work as a "B" or "C" compatibility (functions but not as designed or as well), Paul nodded as the Japanese engineer waved "NO! Will not work!"

So, you can probably do it, but do not expect the same performance.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

shiggy said:


> The crank set does not really care what is happening at the rear.


A better way to phrase it would be would a 10speed xt crank work with a 9 speed chain and 9 speed FD?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> A better way to phrase it would be would a 10speed xt crank work with a 9 speed chain and 9 speed FD?


I believe that has been at least partly addressed in several previous posts to this thread. i.e. Maybe.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

This **** makes my head hurt. My new plan is a 10 speed cassette, 10sp rear der with shifter, 10 speed chain, keeping my 9 speed front shifter and der, and replacing my 9 speed 22/32/44 chainrings with something like a 26 tooth granny and 38 tooth middle plus (maybe) a bash guard. I'm not looking to replace my crankset if not necessary. Whaddua think?


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## akashra (Dec 30, 2006)

Can anyone confirm whether or not I can use the FC-M970 spider with FC-M770-10 chainrings? The tech docs say M770-10 uses 8.5mm/9.1mm chainring bolts. For M970 they appear to be 7mm and 10.1mm respectively.

Reason for this is my FC-M970s are 172.5mm, whereas FC-M770/FC-M770-10 only come in 5mm increments, so 170mm or 175mm. My M770-10s are in the post.

It would seem that FC-M980 chainrings/spiders are completely incompatible with the FC-M970 counterpart, but the same might not be true for FC-M985 - FC-M980 appears to use a spider which has arms not entirely perpendicular to the rotating axis (BB) from the chainring bolts.


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

cstuttle said:


> Anyone tried a SRAM Powelink with an XT 10 spd dyna sys chain?


No . . . but I'm using a KMC Missing Link without issue (on a 1x10).


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## Cyclesnsports (May 27, 2006)

The next question is... 

Does a sram cassette (xx) work with Dynasys RD Shifter and Chain?

For the weight weenies the sram cassette is reportedly 70grams lighter than the Xtr. :thumbsup:


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Yes, but a recon titanium 11-32 or 11-34 or 11-36 titanium casssette are all respectively lighter than equivalent size XX cassettes, cost less, and if you use the granny cog a lot will last longer.


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## Cyclesnsports (May 27, 2006)

Well from Recons site the ti 10spd 11-36 is 210 grams and the XX 11-36 is listed everywhere at 208 grams. But either way the question still stands if "any other" 10spd cassette will work with the Dynasys components.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Cyclesnsports said:


> Well from Recons site the ti 10spd 11-36 is 210 grams and the XX 11-36 is listed everywhere at 208 grams. But either way the question still stands if "any other" 10spd cassette will work with the Dynasys components.


Spacing is the same but you may not like the performance.


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## cstuttle (May 20, 2006)

*Chain Suck with 9 Speed Crank*



ljsmith said:


> You can use a 9 speed crankset and rings with a 10 speed chain. Weight weenies have already been doing this for years. I have heard that you need to use a 9 speed front derailleur though, but I have not confirmed this. My 10 speed setup is using the 9 speed XTR 970 crankset and it works flawlessly.


I installed a 2008 XT 9 speed crank with new chainrings, 22-32-42, on a 2011 Trek Remedy 9.8 that came with an XT 10 speed drivetrain. I left the 10 speed front derailleur and shifter on. The shifting works fine and there is a little chain rub in certain gear combos but that is easy to avoid. The only problem is CHAIN SUCK, and it is bad. I was wondering if you have experienced any? I think I'll install the 10 speed crank and see if it still happens.


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## cruzean (Jun 12, 2007)

*did anyone verify where the difference is (crank or CR)*



ljsmith said:


> You can use a 9 speed chain with a 10 speed front derailleur and crankset, but you will get a lot more chain rub in certain gear combinations. Are the rings worn out on your 9 speed crank? I have not verified if putting 10 speed rings on a 9 speed crank is okay, bascially I do not know if the ring spacing difference is due to the crankset spider or whether the rings themselves have different offsets. If you do put the 10 speed rings on 9 speed cranks to use with a 9 speed system, let us know how that works.


Is it the crankset spider or the rings that are different?


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## consolidated (Jan 29, 2004)

Cyclesnsports said:


> The next question is...
> 
> Does a sram cassette (xx) work with Dynasys RD Shifter and Chain?
> 
> For the weight weenies the sram cassette is reportedly 70grams lighter than the Xtr. :thumbsup:


Same question here, I want to use 2011 XTR with an XX cassette.


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## jtibb (Nov 21, 2005)

uugghhhh... looked into this and totally missed this thread. just bought dura ace bar cons and paulies. have a slx/xt dyna sys 10spd on a new giant xtc29-1. wont work, now i know. if i understand correctly a road der. should work? if the new shifters had a friction option .......


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## jrfml (Aug 20, 2008)

DeeEight said:


> Its the OUTER chain plate width that changes (10 speed is narrower by approx one quarter of one millimeter) when you go up in speeds because of the tighter cassette spacing.
> [...]
> In terms of outer widths, your typical 8 speed chain is about 7.1mm, 9 speed is about 6.6mm, 10 speed is 6.1mm and 11 speed is 5.5mm.


hi,
when you talk about outer chain plate, do you talk about the chain plate closer to the frame or the further?
I understand that due to the tighter cassette spacing the chain plates that must be narrower are the ones in "contact" with the sprockets.
The chain is in "contact" with the next in size sprocket (one lower speed).
Isn't it that way?

thanks


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## mtbmitch2 (Sep 24, 2007)

kosmo said:


> Very limited test, but I got the 10-speed cassette, deraileur, and chain on the bike last night. No shifters until tomorrow, but I used the rear limit screws to "lock" the chain into 7th gear, and ON THE WORKSTAND, the front 9-speed crank, rings, der, and shifter functioned perfectly with the 10-speed chain.
> 
> More once the shifters show up, and an actual trail test can be done.


Kosmo
how is the 10/9 speed system working?
my rear derailleur is getting long in the tooth. good excuse to change if the poormans
10 speed conversion works. 
have you ridden PT and SP here?


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## rob1208lv (Sep 8, 2007)

should I just buy the whole 10 speed XT group set and change the front rings ?
or can/should I mix it 10 speed rear d,shifter,cassette, and a 9 speed crank with the 9 speed front d, and shifter?


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## Reporter (Mar 12, 2007)

*9v + 10v DynaSys*

Yesterday, I used for the first time my "new" drive train 3x10s, mixing existing Shimano 9 speed together with new SynaSys 10 speed components:
•	Cranks XT Hollowtech II (2004).
•	Chain rings 22/32/44 XT 9s. 22 and 32 new.
•	Front derailleur Deore 9s (2003).
•	Rear derailleur XT DynaSys 10s.
•	Cassette XT DynaSys 10s, 11-36.
•	Chain XTR DynaSys 10s.
•	Shifters XT DynaSys 3x10s, front and rear.

It works flawlessly.


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## rob1208lv (Sep 8, 2007)

How did it shift?


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## Reporter (Mar 12, 2007)

First ride was +/-40 km in moist conditions.
I felt 22<=>32 and 32<=>44 shifting as good, fast and clear as with the old 9 speed chain HG-93.
No chain sucks, even with 22-36.
It was possible to use all the 10 cogs with the 32. No chain rub with the front derailleur.

Rear shifting was as good as it is supposed to be for Shimano XT, but I still prefer the smoothness of the "old" 9s Shimano XT or XTR drive trains.


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## rob1208lv (Sep 8, 2007)

I am going to run 9spd front D/shifter and crankset, with 10spd rear D/shifter and cassette 11-36. But I want to change my front chain rings. Where can I but good replacements sized 24/36?


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## mtbmitch2 (Sep 24, 2007)

just finished up a road test up and down some hilly streets with a poor mans
10 speed upgrade with some parts from CRC 
Changed the rear cassette to a Shimano XT11-36 ten speed.
replaced the rear derailleur to a XT shadow M773 medium cage
replaced rear shifter to a XT 10 speed
and the best, KMC X10 93 10 speed chain with a sram link
front inner and middle chainrings are action tec ti 8,9 speed stuff
outer is a run of the mill cheap 8/9 speed ring.
non of the chain rings have any ramps or pins.

shifting is spectacular. the new shimano ratio change along with smaller gaps
of the cogs, gives a very smooth and precise shifting. not quite the
click and bang into gear of the nine speed shimano, thats ok though.

also the front derailleur is much easier to dial in with the skinnier chain


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## nxxx (Jul 1, 2010)

An interesting thing to note: the new XTR derailleur is listed on Shimano's website with a capacity of 41 teeth, meaning that if coupled with the new 42-32-24 cranks, the biggest sprocket in the rear should be with 34 teeth. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it kinda negates the point of the whole 10 speed transition, at least the way Shimano is trying to push it. If I'm going to use the same 11-34 sprockets in the rear (with one extra gear sqeezed between say 20 and 23T) and I'm willing to pair them with the aforementioned cranks, what I'm getting would be a net _decrease_ in usable range, both in the low and top end. Or maybe I should be getting the 38-26 cranks with a 36T cassette? Same thing, what I'm getting on the low end is a 36:26 ~ 1,38 gear ratio. Compare that to the 34:22 ~ 1,54 gear ratio that is common with 9 speed setups. If this reduction is a bad thing depends on lot of things.

The XT and SLX derailleurs are listed with capacity of 43T, which fits the bill exactly - again assuming 42-32-24 cranks are used, a 36T cassette becomes a no-issue. The highest ratio will be 36:24 = 1,5, actually still lower than what you get with 9 speed setups today.

So what we're getting with the new 10 speed is a closer-ratio transmission; more gears squeezed in a narrower range - which translates in smaller percepted difference between adjacent gears. I think that's the selling point that Shimano is trying to push on their website, but they got stuck in some sort of marketing talk instead of getting to the core.

Using 44-32-22 cranks seems to be the best of both worlds then: retain the sweet 11:44 = 0,25 top gear ratio, extend the highest ratio to 36:22 ~ 1,63, and get an extra gear in between. The only problem is that such configuration would require a derailleur with 47T capacity, which may be impossible to achieve within some strength/weight requirements. Of course, all is not lost, as you can read here.

Hope this may be useful when considering the switch to ten speed


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## jtibb (Nov 21, 2005)

frankly i would never have "switched" to 10 spd. it came on a new bike. 2x9,or 3x9,.. i cant imagine NEEDING more than that


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Nobody *needs* more than a single speed, or even a bicycle. One can always walk.

All these posts saying "I'm more righteous because I don't need as many gears as are available nowadays" or "anyone who likes to have more gears than I do is incompetent/unfit/corrupt/works for Shimano" are getting a bit tedious...

Maybe it's time to start a new thread - or flame war - about who (apart from singlespeeders) can get away with the least gears. Now, should that be front, rear, both, or the two multiplied together? :madman:


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## with_the_band (Jun 20, 2008)

Note sure if this has been covered but I'm getting one of the new pivot mach 4's.

To stagger the costs a bit I'm going to use the drivetrain off my old bike, which is a full XT 9 speed setup.
The mach4 needs a direct mount front derailleur which my old bike doesn't have so I was thinking about getting a 10speed front derailleur and using it will my 9 speed drivetrain until I can afford to upgrade the rest of the drivetrain to 10 speed XT.

Will this work? or is it more trouble than it's worth?

Thanks for the help


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## rob1208lv (Sep 8, 2007)

2 issues 
1. I wanted to replace my chain rings on my xtr chrank with 26, 36 setup, but my lbs said xtr cranks only work with xtr chain rings? 
2. I wanted to run my 9speed crank front d and shifter with 10 speed rear drive train (cassette, chain , shifter and rear d) but the lbs said won't cause chain won't fit the crank?
Are these statements true?


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## mtbmitch2 (Sep 24, 2007)

rob1208lv said:


> 2 issues
> 1. I wanted to replace my chain rings on my xtr chrank with 26, 36 setup, but my lbs said xtr cranks only work with xtr chain rings?
> 2. I wanted to run my 9speed crank front d and shifter with 10 speed rear drive train (cassette, chain , shifter and rear d) but the lbs said won't cause chain won't fit the crank?
> Are these statements true?


I have about 110 miles on a poor mans 10 speed conversion, which is old school 8,9 speed
non ramped and non pinned front chainrings, 9speed FD. everything else is 10 speed. 
running a KMC x10-93 chain with the shimano xt cassette with no problems
bike has never shifted so well. so your lbs is either telling you the company line or
does not know that mixing will work.


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## rob1208lv (Sep 8, 2007)

mtbmitch2 said:


> I have about 110 miles on a poor mans 10 speed conversion, which is old school 8,9 speed
> non ramped and non pinned front chainrings, 9speed FD. everything else is 10 speed.
> running a KMC x10-93 chain with the shimano xt cassette with no problems
> bike has never shifted so well. so your lbs is either telling you the company line or
> does not know that mixing will work.


So what chain rings (26,36) do I buy for my xtr crankset? that are no pinned or ramped (M970)
and will the new dyna sys 10speed chain work on the 9speed crank and chainrings?


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## CMu_dogtag (Mar 1, 2007)

*Drop Bar Mix & Match?*

I have Ultegra shifters, Ultegra triple crank, Ultegra triple FD and Ultegra RD med cage.

Will this drivetrain work with an XT 10spd cassette? Maybe a 32 or 34 tooth cassette?


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## wouterbiker (Dec 30, 2004)

*no 10 speed for me?*

hello,

i now use 9sp trigger shifters with a rapid rise rear derailler. 
i use this setup so i can shift te same way on my internal geared gt it dh bike.
so i do not want to change that

so i can not use a rapid rise 9 speed derailler with 10 sp shifters?
and shimano does not make 10 speed rapid rise deraillers?

so is there no way i can get 10 speed on my bike?
without having to shift te other way as on my dh bike?

grtz, wouter


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

You should be able to do this by using 10 speed road shifters with a 9 speed rapid rise rear derailleur. You can either use the flat bar rapidfire plus shifters or bar-end/downtube (7800, not 7900) levers with Paul thumbshifter mounts. I'm not sure how well the LH flatbar RF+ shifeter will work with a MTB front derailleur, but it's only the RH one that's important for 10 speed anyway. It'd be easier just to abandon rapid rise. :thumbsup:


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## g3rG (Aug 29, 2009)

I just converted my bike using the following:

Sram 10 speed chain
Shimano rear cassette (Dynasys XT)
Shimano shifter (XT Dynasys)
*SRAM XO 9sp rear derailleur*

It turns out the full pull on the new Shimano 10sp shifter is identical to the full pull on the old Sram 9sp shifter. Assuming everything is linear, that means a Shimano shifter should work with the Sram RD, with the 10 detent positions set by the shifter. I have a Hammerschmidt up front, so nothing to do there.

I set it up last night, and it shifts perfectly. I intend to torture test it tomorrow on the trails.

gerG

Update: I have had this combo on several rides now. It is working perfectly. It shifts smoothly and quickly under low to moderate load, and about like any other setup if do the dumb thing and shift it under high load. I have noticed a slight hesitation to downshift (step to larger rear cog) on one of the middle gears. It is almost like the spacing is slightly off in the cassette. A couple of clicks on the adjustment barrel got rid of it. The only real issue is that I miss the aggressive shifting behavior of the Saint parts that I removed to try this setup. The positives are the lower granny gear, and the lighter chain (less chain slap).


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

Read through the sticky - much thanks to OP.

One more time, to be clear:

If I am now running 1 x 9 (Truvative Stylo 1.1 up front) and want a 10 speed block and that extra 36 cog in back, I can keep the Stylo 1.1, and "all" I need is a 10 speed cassette, chain, rear derailleur, and shifter.

TIA


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## mtbmitch2 (Sep 24, 2007)

dwt said:


> Read through the sticky - much thanks to OP.
> 
> One more time, to be clear:
> 
> ...


yes


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## endorfin (Jan 10, 2008)

a sunrace driven is also 10sp compatibel.
At the moment I use it 9 speed:

http://nifrodne.blogspot.com/2010/11/sunrace-driven.html


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## CasinoKiD (Aug 19, 2004)

I'm getting a little confused...
Will a 2010 9 speed XT crankset work with:
10 speed rings
10 speed RD
10 speed FD
10 speed chain
10 speed shifters

I currently have a XT Dynasys 10 speed crankset that I am using that is a 175mm. I have a XT 9 speed crankset that is 170mm that I would like to use. Will it work with the rings from the Dynasys 10 speed crankset?


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## rob1208lv (Sep 8, 2007)

CasinoKiD said:


> I'm getting a little confused...
> Will a 2010 9 speed XT crankset work with:
> 10 speed rings
> 10 speed RD
> ...


It should work as long as the crank arms have the same bolt pattern. Come by (i'm in vegas also PM me if you want ) and we will put it together and check it out.


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

I just ordered a set of XTR 10 speed shifters, Rear Derailleur, Chain and an XT 11-36T Cassette- I will run this with my current XTR 970 cranks and Front Der and should have no issue from what this thread indicates...

A bit of a catch the bike is a pivot 429 with a direct mount XTR Front Der, I noticed at least one post that had some initial issues with the 9 spd front der/cranks and needed to move the FD up a bit to get the front shifting to work at all- I hope I can make it work without it as it is a bit tough on a direct mount FD!!!

Long story short-

Has anyone else who actually went the 10 speed route with just the rear cass, rear der, chain and shifters matched with 9spd FD and Crankset needed to change the orientation of the FD to get the shifting dialed in???

Thanks


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## nitropowered (Aug 30, 2007)

I'm thinking of getting an XTR rear and shifter to do my 1x10 setup. I will probably run an XX cassette.


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## tree_trunks (Nov 16, 2006)

Very interesting!

Which cassette did you go with? I'm curious as to the clearance for the 11-36 with the X.0 9s.



g3rG said:


> I just converted my bike using the following:
> 
> Sram 10 speed chain
> Shimano rear cassette (Dynasys XT)
> ...


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

tree_trunks said:


> Very interesting!
> 
> Which cassette did you go with? I'm curious as to the clearance for the 11-36 with the X.0 9s.


This confirms what I read only once before. The Dyna-sys cable pull to rear derailleur rate is 1:1, like SRAM (9 Speed) now. I haven't heard if SRAM changed from 1:1 to something else for XX.

BTW, a Shimano HG 12-36 (LX) works for me with SRAM 9-speed rear ders. The XX and Dyna-shift have the same cog spacing.

Thanks!


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

knottshore said:


> I just ordered a set of XTR 10 speed shifters, Rear Derailleur, Chain and an XT 11-36T Cassette- I will run this with my current XTR 970 cranks and Front Der and should have no issue from what this thread indicates...
> 
> A bit of a catch the bike is a pivot 429 with a direct mount XTR Front Der, I noticed at least one post that had some initial issues with the 9 spd front der/cranks and needed to move the FD up a bit to get the front shifting to work at all- I hope I can make it work without it as it is a bit tough on a direct mount FD!!!
> 
> ...


Well no issues with the Direct mount front derailleur- went on the first ride today with it and the 10spd shifters/RD/cassette worked well with the 9spd front der/cranks no issues-

The only thing I did notice is that when in the center chainring up front and on the 36T in the back it seemed to put a bunch of stress on the chain/RD and made a bit of a noise- no real issue but it did not seem right? never happened with the 9 spd 11-34 - I have not looked into it yet but wondering if the spacing on the 10 speed cranks/rear cassette changes and if it could be enough to alter the center ring chainline???


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

knottshore said:


> Well no issues with the Direct mount front derailleur- went on the first ride today with it and the 10spd shifters/RD/cassette worked well with the 9spd front der/cranks no issues-
> 
> The only thing I did notice is that when in the center chainring up front and on the 36T in the back it seemed to put a bunch of stress on the chain/RD and made a bit of a noise- no real issue but it did not seem right? never happened with the 9 spd 11-34 - I have not looked into it yet but wondering if the spacing on the 10 speed cranks/rear cassette changes and if it could be enough to alter the center ring chainline???


The noise could be the top pulley wheel rubbing the 36t cog?
Your B adjustment screw will fix this.


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

the mayor said:


> The noise could be the top pulley wheel rubbing the 36t cog?
> Your B adjustment screw will fix this.


Thanks for the feedback, good possibility for sure- I checked the spring tension and adjusted the screw and made sure the upper cog was not touching the 36T cog when I did the initial install, so I am not sure that was it. The noise was most noticable during the first ride, I did not notice it too much if at all now that the chain, cogs and cassette have a few miles on them... or the drive train is dirty and hiding it...


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## g3rG (Aug 29, 2009)

tree_trunks said:


> Very interesting!
> 
> Which cassette did you go with? I'm curious as to the clearance for the 11-36 with the X.0 9s.


Hi tree_trunks, sorry for the delay.

I have the Shimano HG81 11-36 cassette on the rear. So far it is behaving perfectly. To tell you the truth, I have gotten distracted by other bike parts (fork rebuild, new lights, etc) and forgot all about the driveline. I got one ghost shift last week, but it was after a pretty solid crash. Other than that it has done nothing to draw my attention.

I haven't done any actual measurements. Would pictures help?

gerG


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## rob1208lv (Sep 8, 2007)

Can you use a sram gold quick link on a shimano xt dyna sys 10spd chain?


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## with_the_band (Jun 20, 2008)

Hi, I think this is a very similar question but asked in reverse, sorry if it's been asked before.

Basically I have an 9 speed xt setup and want to migrate to 10 sp soon.

I have 165mm xt 9 sp cranks and want 170mm so I was thinking of buying a xt 10sp crankset and putting the 9sp rings on until I can afford the rest of the 10sp setup.

Will the 9sp rings fit on a 10sp crank arms?


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## nixgame22 (Apr 10, 2008)

with_the_band said:


> Will the 9sp rings fit on a 10sp crank arms?


I don't believe there is a difference in crank arms between the 9/10 speed. So yes,whichever chainrings you choose will fit on the crank, as long as you have the correct spacing 104bd.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Guess I'm being a Slowpoke here, but anyway:


Is it true that 10-speed Shimano MTB chains are the same width between inner plates as 9-speed chains?
Is it true that 10-speed Shimano MTB cassette cogs are the same thickness as 9-speed cogs?
Is it true that 10-speed SRAM chains intended for 10-speed SRAM MTB drivetrains are narrower between inner plates than 9-speed chains?
Is it true that 10-speed SRAM MTB cassette cogs are narrower than 9-speed cogs?


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

1. Probably not. I know that the Shimano *road* 10 speed cogs are slightly thinner than the 9 speed ones. I haven't had a chance to measure the MTB ones.
2. I think Shiggy made some comment about this, but I don't remember the answer.
3. Probably, but haven't measured it.
4. Ditto.

(There's not enough of this stuff around in my part of the world for me to measure yet.)


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

The reason I asked is because of this post earlier on this thread.

If this is indeed so, then I would gladly move from 9 to 10 on my FS rig (which is the inverse of my previous no-no opinion on 10-speed).

Right now I too don't have any 10-speed parts around to measure them.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

What exactly are you hoping will happen? I'm afraid I don't quite see where you're coming from with the questions asked. (Also, see Shiggy's post #58.)

I think Shiggy has said elsewhere that the Shimano 10 speed MTB cassettes use thicker cogs than their 10 speed road cassettes. This wouldn't be a bad thing for cassette durability but might reduce compatibility with Sram, etc.

If you're hoping that the Shimano 10 speed MTB stuff has the same thickness cogs and rollers as 9 speed my question is: "How does the extra cog fit into the same space then?" It *might* be that the outer plates are flatter than the road chains and that's how they get away with it(?). If the plates are thinner this cannot be a good thing for durability IMHO.

Really, the only answer is to measure the various bits accurately, and it's still all too new and exotic for me to be able to do this without buying everything(!).


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

satanas said:


> What exactly are you hoping will happen? I'm afraid I don't quite see where you're coming from with the questions asked. (Also, see Shiggy's post #58.)
> 
> I think Shiggy has said elsewhere that the Shimano 10 speed MTB cassettes use thicker cogs than their 10 speed road cassettes. This wouldn't be a bad thing for cassette durability but might reduce compatibility with Sram, etc.


Yes, it's the possibility that cassette and chain life expectancy has been retained, by Shimano engineers, similar to that of 9-speed parts. And that it's true only for Shimano Dyna-sys parts.

In other words, Dyna-sys is possibly the best thing that could happen to drivetrains since 8-speed XTR. And that 9-speed Shimano solutions for MTB can now (possibly) be regarded as evolutionary dead end. And that we should expect the Saint group to migrate to 10-speed, with addition of narrow range cassettes (although I would have preferred it in 8-speed, 1:1 flavor -- but that would mean another standard to support).



satanas said:


> If you're hoping that the Shimano 10 speed MTB stuff has the same thickness cogs and rollers as 9 speed my question is: "How does the extra cog fit into the same space then?" It *might* be that the outer plates are flatter than the road chains and that's how they get away with it(?). If the plates are thinner this cannot be a good thing for durability IMHO.


Well, they have reduced cog spacing but not cog thickness, and called it Dyna-sys. Then, to make a chain that would optimally work with such cassette, they somehow narrowed outer plates and pins, but retained the same 9-speed distance between inner plates. This "specialness" of the chain agrees with Shimano recommendations of what chain to use with their 10-speed MTB drivetrains.

For durability (as wear resistance), what matters most (it's IMHO too) is the width of bushing-emulation protrusions on the inner plates. Most wear on the chain happens where these contact the pins.

For durability-as-tensile-strength, I have no idea how the narrower outer plates compare to 9-speed ones and to all other kinds of 10-speed chains. Maybe there was some strength reserve in 9-speed plates that was used up in Dyna-sys.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

FWIW, I'm still using 8 speed XTR - haven't broken anything yet! I do have one MTB with 9 speed, but went straight to 10 speed on the road and have had no problems there.

Personally, I like the cog choices for 10 speed Shimano a lot better than anything else MTB so far, but would like to be able to use twist shifters so will hold out for a while and see if Sram deliver the goods.

I agree that if Shimano have somehow managed to make the chain narrower without killing durability it's a good thing. Maybe they're just making everything with a bit closer tolerances - after all, there's plenty of people who've been using 9 speed chains on 8 speed drivetrains, 10 on 9 etc, so perhaps they were being a bit conservative before. (And the new actuation ratios mean that more precise adjustment is possible than before, thus meaning closer tolerances won't drive everyone insane.)

Not sure about Shimano's recommendations as they have had a very long history of saying "only this combo will work" when there have often been others which have been fine. Things may not be "special" as Shimano would like us to think, but this is speculation on my part, albeit based on experience.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Can I use a sram 9-speed Powerlink with a Shimano 10-speed mtb chain?

If not, what kind of quick connect can I use with a 10-speed shimano chain?


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Can I use a sram 9-speed Powerlink with a Shimano 10-speed mtb chain?
> 
> If not, what kind of quick connect can I use with a 10-speed shimano chain?


The Sram 9 speed (or other such as KMC etc..) will be too wide- I used a wipperman connex 10 speed link on my 10 speed xtr chain and it has been working great- no issues after quite a few rides...


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

knottshore said:


> The Sram 9 speed (or other such as KMC etc..) will be too wide- I used a wipperman connex 10 speed link on my 10 speed xtr chain and it has been working great- no issues after quite a few rides...


The wipperman connect comes in different widths. 6.1, 6.5 and 7.2. Which one works with 10 speed mtb chains?


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

nxxx said:


> An interesting thing to note: the new XTR derailleur is listed on Shimano's website with a capacity of 41 teeth, meaning that if coupled with the new 42-32-24 cranks, the biggest sprocket in the rear should be with 34 teeth. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it kinda negates the point of the whole 10 speed transition, at least the way Shimano is trying to push it. If I'm going to use the same 11-34 sprockets in the rear (with one extra gear sqeezed between say 20 and 23T) and I'm willing to pair them with the aforementioned cranks, what I'm getting would be a net _decrease_ in usable range, both in the low and top end. Or maybe I should be getting the 38-26 cranks with a 36T cassette? Same thing, what I'm getting on the low end is a 36:26 ~ 1,38 gear ratio. Compare that to the 34:22 ~ 1,54 gear ratio that is common with 9 speed setups. If this reduction is a bad thing depends on lot of things.


Most derailleurs are under rated by two teeth from the real maximum of what they can truly accept. It is common for a 28 tooth max rear capacity to be pushed easily to use a 30 tooth cog.
http://www.bikepro.com/products/rear_derailleurs/rear_derailleurover.html


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## GVSS (Nov 7, 2008)

*my experiment with 9 and 10 speed mix*

I just thought I'd share my experience.

Santa just brought me a 2011 Giant Trance X3 with a shimano 3x10 slx shifters, front and rear derailieur, cassette and deore crank with slx 10s rings.

I recently jumped at the chance to buy an LX crank at jensonusa for a great price. I wanted to install the LX crank on the new bike, but the tabs for the middle ring wasn't compatible with the LX crank. I instead swapped the OE granny and outer ring and left the 9s LX ring and installed on the bike.

Long story short, it works great so far. Haven't taken it out on the trail yet, but i works great riding around the neighborhood. And after closer inspection, the OE 24t granny ring is inscribed with SG-X, which is a 9 speed ring.

Hope this info might help some that have questions about using 9s rings and cranks with 10s drivetrains.


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> The wipperman connect comes in different widths. 6.1, 6.5 and 7.2. Which one works with 10 speed mtb chains?


It is sold as being for "10 speed" chains and from what a quick search turned up it is the 6.1 mm width. Here is a link of one like I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_500wt_1156

I did not try a KMC or SRAM link but those could work as well (there are a lot of variables with these as well) , I have had luck with the wipperman links in the past; reusable, stainless steel, and easy to install/remove (no pinching while pushing, squeezing and pulling.... all at once like some of the links out there)

Hope this helps-


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## puckhead (Aug 9, 2004)

Just got the bike back from the LBS with my frankenbike 10 speed “Dyna Sys” conversion. My set up is as follows;
X9 10 speed R derailleur medium cage
X9 10 speed rear shifter
SLX 10 speed 11-36 cassette
XT 10 speed chain
XT 9 speed front derailleur
X9 9 speed front shifter
TruVativ crank with 9 speed 24/36 rings
Took it for a ride around the neighborhood including some climbs and went through all the gears and everything shifts fine. No problems at all. Except that the LBS left the chain waaaaaaaaay too long, but that’s another story. When I told the LBS what I wanted to do the mechanic swore up and down that it could not be done, that a 10 speed chain would not work on 9 speed rings. But since I’m working 6 days a week and don’t want to wrench my bike on the 7th day, I told him to just do it and give it a try. If anyone wants to do a 10 speed conversion on the cheap, don’t let your LBS talk you into getting 10 speed cranks, rings, front d and shifter. They can make it work with your existing 9 speed stuff.


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## cpclydesdale (Jan 21, 2010)

Has anyone dealt with Dyna-sys chainring not meshing with a kmc 10 speed chain? 

My 9 to 10 speed conversion is as follows: SRAM flat-bar double-tap (right) and keeping my grip micro-index left, x-7 10s R.der., 1080 11-36 cassette, kmc x10 ti chain, keeping slx F.der., keeping deus triple cranks, but changing rings to 26(64bcd) and 38(104bcd) with a bash guard outer. I'm considering and XTR 26t as it's available now at distributor's website. What I've heard is 9/10 speed chainrings are interchangeable.


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## JasonRad (Nov 15, 2010)

I've read the majority of the posts in this thread, searched the internet and talked to my LBS looking for an answer to the below. If I overlooked this information somewhere, please forgive the unattentive.

Has anyone found info on a 46t outer that is compatible with the Dyna Sys XT / FC-M770-10 / Hollowtech 2 Crankset?

Thanks,

Jason


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

cpclydesdale said:


> Has anyone dealt with Dyna-sys chainring not meshing with a kmc 10 speed chain?
> 
> My 9 to 10 speed conversion is as follows: SRAM flat-bar double-tap (right) and keeping my grip micro-index left, x-7 10s R.der., 1080 11-36 cassette, kmc x10 ti chain, keeping slx F.der., keeping deus triple cranks, but changing rings to 26(64bcd) and 38(104bcd) with a bash guard outer. I'm considering and XTR 26t as it's available now at distributor's website. What I've heard is 9/10 speed chainrings are interchangeable.


I am not sure what granny/26T ring your currently running but can't imagine much benefit your going to see going to an xtr 9 or 10 speed... you may also run into spacing issues with the xtr granny ring, even though the bcd is still 64mm they are offset about 2.5mm different.

Adding the 10 speed ring may alter the spacing even if it is not xtr and your slx 9 speed front der may not function properly as well- someone is welcome to chime in but I believe the 10 speed shimano cranks are not changed from 9 to 10spd but the rings alter the spacing, making it more narrow to accommodate the 10spd chain.


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## KPH (Aug 1, 2008)

Can't see this exact combo listed here - will this work ?

XTR 10 speed 3 chaing ring crankset (NEW)
XTR 9 speed front derailler (& shifter)
9 speed chain (KMC)
XT 9 speed cassette
XTR 9 speed rear mech (& shifter)

Thanks in advance

(want to 'upgrade' from XT 9 speed crankset)


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

KPH said:


> Can't see this exact combo listed here - will this work ?
> 
> XTR 10 speed 3 chaing ring crankset (NEW)
> XTR 9 speed front derailler (& shifter)
> ...


Everything should work but you might need to use a ten speed chain and maybe a ten speed FD.


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## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

If I put a 2011 XTR front shifter on my 9sp SLX setup, will the front (22/32/bash) shift with less throw than the existing SLX front shifter?
My left arthritic thumb doesn't like the long throw of the SLX front.


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

thecanoe said:


> If I put a 2011 XTR front shifter on my 9sp SLX setup, will the front (22/32/bash) shift with less throw than the existing SLX front shifter?
> My left arthritic thumb doesn't like the long throw of the SLX front.


The cable pull of the left shifter does not change just the geometry of the FD cage.... but an xt or xtr shifter(9 or 10 speed) does seem to have less" throw" than the silly amount slx has. I had a set of slx 9 spd on my wife's ride and was surprised to find how far you had to push with your thumb....


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## huka (Feb 7, 2009)

Have read this thread all over n found very interesting information on drive train, especially shimano. Right now I'm planning on building a cyclocross bike that i can use also to commute daily and touring. For drive train i plan to use Dura-Ace 9/10 down tube shifter with 9/10 speed deore XT FD, crankset, RD and cassette. Will it work smoothly.? Pls I need to know your advice/experience before I really buy them and end up useless.


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## JasonRad (Nov 15, 2010)

*Race Face Cogs for DynaSys*



JasonRad said:


> I've read the majority of the posts in this thread, searched the internet and talked to my LBS looking for an answer to the below. If I overlooked this information somewhere, please forgive the unattentive.
> 
> Has anyone found info on a 46t outer that is compatible with the Dyna Sys XT / FC-M770-10 / Hollowtech 2 Crankset?
> 
> ...


I had sent an inquiry to Race Face about the above question, as well as a question on replacement chainrings in general for the DynaSys cranks. Below was there response if anyone was interested.

"We have just recently released RaceFace Turbine 3x10 rings. We really have not tested these rings to see if they will work with Shimano 10 speed cranks yet. We will have that test done within the next couple of weeks and will be able to better comment on your question then. For now you can assume that RaceFace 3x10 rings are not compatible with newer Shimano cranks. We currently do not have plans for a Turbine Type S 10 speed ringset, but that may change.

Sincerely,

RF | raceface.com | 604-527-9996"

Jason


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## puckhead (Aug 9, 2004)

JasonRad said:


> I had sent an inquiry to Race Face about the above question, as well as a question on replacement chainrings in general for the DynaSys cranks. Below was there response if anyone was interested.
> 
> "We have just recently released RaceFace Turbine 3x10 rings. We really have not tested these rings to see if they will work with Shimano 10 speed cranks yet. We will have that test done within the next couple of weeks and will be able to better comment on your question then. For now you can assume that RaceFace 3x10 rings are not compatible with newer Shimano cranks. We currently do not have plans for a Turbine Type S 10 speed ringset, but that may change.
> 
> ...


My question would be, as long as it has the same bolt pattern, why won't it work? It's not like Shimano made some magical breakthrough when they came out with Dyna-sys, they added one cog in the rear, whoop-de-do. I'm currently using 9 speed rings and crank with 10 speed shimano cassette/chain and 10 speed SRAM shifter and it works. In the past I've mixed and matched Race Face/Crank Brothers/Blackspire/Shimano/Tru Vativ rings and cranks. They've all worked no matter the mixed of rings and cranks. I just think RF and Shimano are making things way more complicated than warranted when they say things are not compatable. It's a friggin bike, not a rocket ship.


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

puckhead said:


> My question would be, as long as it has the same bolt pattern, why won't it work? It's not like Shimano made some magical breakthrough when they came out with Dyna-sys, they added one cog in the rear, whoop-de-do. I'm currently using 9 speed rings and crank with 10 speed shimano cassette/chain and 10 speed SRAM shifter and it works. In the past I've mixed and matched Race Face/Crank Brothers/Blackspire/Shimano/Tru Vativ rings and cranks. They've all worked no matter the mixed of rings and cranks. I just think RF and Shimano are making things way more complicated than warranted when they say things are not compatable. It's a friggin bike, not a rocket ship.


 Notice race face did not say they wouldn't work.... they simply said at this point they have not been able to test to confirm, aka cya. 104bcd chainrings don't mean that the spacing for the chain will work, just because the bolt circle is the same... prime example xtr, same 104 bcd different offset.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

huka said:


> For drive train i plan to use Dura-Ace 9/10 down tube shifter with 9/10 speed deore XT FD, crankset, RD and cassette.


Should work fine as long as you match the shifer and cassette and DO NOT use a Dynasys rear mech.


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## LORENZ (May 2, 2008)

opps wrong thread


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Edit.


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## huka (Feb 7, 2009)

satanas said:


> Should work fine as long as you match the shifer and cassette and DO NOT use a Dynasys rear mech.


Does it mean I can not use Dynasys RD and Cassette with 10 speed Dura-Ace down tube shifter ?


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

10 speed cassette cog 1.65mm
9 speed cassette cog 1.8mm
both xt

Sj


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

huka said:


> Does it mean I can not use Dynasys RD and Cassette with 10 speed Dura-Ace down tube shifter ?


Correct. Cable pull is different between the Shimano 10spd road parts and the Shimano DynaSys mountain parts


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ This is true, but not complete. All indexed Shimano road rear mechs (except old Dura-Ace 74xx, and the latest Dura-Ace 79xx) and *all* other Shimano MTB, hybrid, etc, rear mechs use the same cable travel - except DynaSys.

Also, MTB and road front ferailleurs use different cable travel (MTB >), and the most recent Dura-Ace and Ultegra use a little more than the previous generation. It is not clear (to me) if the latter is due entirely to spacing changes (the rings are slightly further apart than previous 10 speed) or whether perhaps the geometry might be a little different too. FWIW, I've used older 7/8 speed spaced rings with 7800 10 speed everything else with no issues.

The (non-indexed) bar-end shifters won't care much about the front cable travel as long as there's enough in total, and they will work with MTB front mechs and 3 rings so you should have no problems.

Please be careful when ordering the shifters as 7800 use the "normal" Shimano travel same as non-DynaSys MRB), while 7900 are incompatible with MTB mechs, etc. 7800 still will not work with DynaSys, but neither will 7900.


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## jrzyzombie (Oct 25, 2010)

I have a 2011 trek fuel ex8. It has a shimano m552 10 spd dyna-sys crankset. I would like to know if I can put the 10 spd dyna-sys chainrings on my shimano xt 9 spd crank arms. Also will the arms fit on the bottom bracket.


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## gadget1 (Jul 12, 2009)

*dynasys RD and shifters XX cassette*

I just re read this thread -thanks for all the info.

This question has been asked twice, but not answered:-

is an XX cassette compatible with dynasys RD and shifters?

My understanding is that a dynasys cassette is wider than an XX cassette so I assume this wouldn't work.

Anyone actually tried this?

p.s. loving the simplicity and shifting on my xt 1 x10, but cassette WAY too heavy.


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## marcryan27 (Nov 1, 2008)

I have a 9speed SLX groupset... Im thinking about getting a 10 speed XT Dynasys crank. Will it work with a 9speed cassette, 9 speed front & rear derailleur and a 9 speed chain. Or should I change something also? Reading through all the questions & replies kinda got me confuse a lil bit. Thanks!


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## hrdude (Feb 17, 2006)

Has anyone tried putting a 9spd 22t granny on a Dyna-sys 10spd crankset? Will this work?


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## Bikebr (Dec 25, 2009)

*DynaSys x SRAM 9 speed*

_"2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road "flat bar" 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push."

"This confirms what I read only once before. The Dyna-sys cable pull to rear derailleur rate is 1:1, like SRAM (9 Speed) now. I haven't heard if SRAM changed from 1:1 to something else for XX."

"I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1, all shimano derailleurs except the new 10speed mtb (and the 7/8 speed DuraAce) are 2:1 and the shimano 10s MTB is I believe its been measured out as something like 1.25:1."_

Folks, sorry if i lost something in translation (english is not my native language).. Is it possible to use a 9 sp SRAM rear der in a full 10 sp DynaSys system(i.e. changing a XT RD-M773 for a X9)?
Thanks.


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

Bikebr said:


> _"2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road "flat bar" 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push."
> 
> "This confirms what I read only once before. The Dyna-sys cable pull to rear derailleur rate is 1:1, like SRAM (9 Speed) now. I haven't heard if SRAM changed from 1:1 to something else for XX."
> 
> ...


In short, NO. It is not possible even though Shimano shifters have changed from the previous 2:1 ratio to a ~ 1.25:1 ratio (or whatever it works out to be?) it is still not the same as 8/9 speed or 10 speed Sram cable pull. Front Derailleur wise you would be ok with either, 8, 9 or 10 speed 3X shifters (2X add different issues) cable pull wise from either Shimano or Sram...


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## Hedge72 (Mar 31, 2006)

Does anyone know the q factor on the new XTR 2x10 cranks? I know that the M985 (race) has a q factor which is 6mm lower than the M980 (trail). Assuming that the trail retains the same q factor of the last gen M970 (even here I am unsure, having read a q factor of either 169mm or 166mm), that would put the M985s at 160mm - 162mm...though I have also read that they are 2mm wider than the lowest available q factor on the xx (156m), which is then 158mm. 

I'm looking to take my Giant Anthem to a double front with XTR cranks and finding that there is not only little, but conflicting information out there. 

Hedge


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## polymathic (Oct 11, 2010)

I read this interesting thread very carefully, and I have a compatibility question that has not been covered yet. (Unless I missed it.)

Currently, I'm running a 2x9: X9 short cage rear derailleur, SRAM pg 990 cassette, X9 shifters, XT crank, XT front derailleur.

Unfortunately, my riding and the X9 RD don't work well together, and I seem to bend my derailleur hanger every couple of weeks. So I want to switch to a Shimano Shadow RD, which would require me to change the shifters as well. But I was wondering.... 

Could I change my X9 RD for a XT 10s RD, but keep everything else as is? (I guess I would also need to get a 10s chain?) Since the ratio of the XT 10s system is now 1:1, my x9 shifters should work. When my cassette wears out, I could get a 10s replacement and then upgrade my shifters so I can use the full 10s range. Would this work? Seems like the cheapest step for me, while working my way up to a 10s system down the road.

Thanks in advance, and thank you all for this incredibly informative thread.


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## polymathic (Oct 11, 2010)

I don't want to sound impatient, but... really no one knows the answer to this? TIA.


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## kuolas (Jan 22, 2010)

DeeEight said:


> Because in order to improve the reliability of the mtb 10 speed shifting, shimano has finally admitted to themselves that SRAM had the right idea lowering the leverage ratio of the rear derailleur cable pull geometry (which makes the derailleur less sensitive to cable stretch and tension changes from shifter housing movement on a rear suspension bike). So the shifters now pull more cable than before for each shift. SRAM's 10 speed shifters and derailleurs also pull more cable than their 9 speed units. I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1, all shimano derailleurs except the new 10speed mtb (and the 7/8 speed DuraAce) are 2:1 and the shimano 10s MTB is I believe its been measured out as something like 1.25:1.


Maybe I'm incorrect... but... If you use a DynaSys Shifter with a normal 9s Shimano Shadows, the dérailleur will move two cogs per shift. And that if you use a 9s shifter wit a DynaSys dérailleur it will need two shifts per derailleur move... so Shimano changed the ratio from 2:1 to 4:1.

SRAM says that 1:1 is better with mud and dirt... but in reality more cable pull (like Shimano 2:1) make the system more reliable.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

kuolas said:


> Maybe I'm incorrect... but... If you use a DynaSys Shifter with a normal 9s Shimano Shadows, the dérailleur will move two cogs per shift. And that if you use a 9s shifter wit a DynaSys dérailleur it will need two shifts per derailleur move... so Shimano changed the ratio from 2:1 to 4:1.
> 
> SRAM says that 1:1 is better with mud and dirt... but in reality more cable pull (like Shimano 2:1) make the system more reliable.


You have it backwards. The "2:1" ratio is 2 units of derailleur movement to 1 unit of shifter movement, meaning small difference in cable tension make a bigger difference in shift indexing and it is therefore less reliable in real use.

Shimano did about double the cable pull needed with Dynasys, but this basically changed it from 2:1 to 2:2, which is the same as 1:1 of course.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

boomn said:


> You have it backwards. The "2:1" ratio is 2 units of derailleur movement to 1 unit of shifter movement, meaning small difference in cable tension make a bigger difference in shift indexing and it is therefore less reliable in real use.
> 
> Shimano did about double the cable pull needed with Dynasys, but this basically changed it from 2:1 to 2:2, which is the same as 1:1 of course.


This is quite fun.  I was confused before about the 2:1 etc. because I wasn't sure what point of reference this was from. I would have said 2 units of cable for 1 gear unit movement.

In automotive (or other things) terms, the discussion of gear-ratio is in reference of how many times the "driving" thing has to move for 1 movement of the driven device. 4.10 means the drive shaft turns 4.1 times for 1 turn of the tire. Transmission is done in terms of how many turns the engine makes (input shaft to transmission) with reference to the output shaft.

Back-asswards....................


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

gmats said:


> This is quite fun. I was confused before about the 2:1 etc. because I wasn't sure what point of reference this was from. I would have said 2 units of cable for 1 gear unit movement.
> 
> In automotive (or other things) terms, the discussion of gear-ratio is in reference of how many times the "driving" thing has to move for 1 movement of the driven device. 4.10 means the drive shaft turns 4.1 times for 1 turn of the tire. Transmission is done in terms of how many turns the engine makes (input shaft to transmission) with reference to the output shaft.
> 
> Back-asswards....................


"shifter movement" the way I meant it is analogous to "units of cable". I guess that wasn't the clearest way for me to write it.

Other sources I've read do switch the order of Shimano's ratio in order to explain it more like a gear ratio. Maybe it was just Shimano's marketing team trying to make the term sound better or something


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## kuolas (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeap... I was wrong. So, we can put SRAM Triggers with a Shimano DynaSys Shadow combo?

I never heard of Shimano publicly show their ratio... I though it's SRAM how says "2:1" to contrast it to the "1:1".


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## hrdude (Feb 17, 2006)

Ok, anyone know if SRAM's 10spd chainrings fit on a Dyna-sys XT crankset?


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

hrdude said:


> Ok, anyone know if SRAM's 10spd chainrings fit on a Dyna-sys XT crankset?


SRAM's double cranksets use a different bolt circle diameter than normal 104BCD cranks like the XT so they aren't compatible


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## polymathic (Oct 11, 2010)

kuolas said:


> Yeap... I was wrong. So, we can put SRAM Triggers with a Shimano DynaSys Shadow combo?
> 
> I never heard of Shimano publicly show their ratio... I though it's SRAM how says "2:1" to contrast it to the "1:1".


That's what I'm trying to figure out for sure--has anyone tried? But only SRAM 9 speed triggers might work, as the 10 speed SRAM stuff is no longer 1:1 ratio.

I also wonder if a 9 speed chain would work in a 10 speed rear derailleur with a 9 speed cassette.

Thank you all for the input.


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## bikeNY22 (Aug 20, 2009)

*SLX Dyna sys everything with exception of SRAM X9 10 speed rear derailleur/shifter*

Hello All,

I think this is a question that hasn't been addressed yet, but I may be wrong:

I am about to pull the trigger on a bike that comes with a full Shimano Dyna Sys SLX 3X10 drivetrain (cranks with 24t/32t/42t chainrings, chain, shifters, front & rear derailleur, cassette, etc). It's a 2011 Giant Reign 1. However, I like the feel of SRAM's 10 speed X9 shifter/rear derailleur combo and would like to incorporate this into my bike in the near future for as little cost as possible.

Q: Can I keep all of my shimano SLX dyna sys components (FD, chain, cassette, cranks, chainrings) and only replace the rear derailleur and rear shifter with SRAM X9 10 speed components? So everything would be dyna sys with the exception of the rear derailleur and rear shifter pod.

I am unsure of how the dyna sys SLX cranks/front derailleur combo will affect the SRAM 10 speed shifting in the rear. Any input or concerns would be greatly appreciated.

It has already been stated that the dyna sys cassette is interchangeable with 10 speed SRAM rear derailleurs (I know I will need to keep the dyna sys chain), but will a SRAM 10 speed rear derailleur be compatible and function properly with dyna sys SLX up front ???

Thanks in advance


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## kuolas (Jan 22, 2010)

DeeEight said:


> I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1


Currently I'm using X5 Triggers (SRAM 9s) with an X7 rear dérailleur (SRAM 10s)... so... It's still the same 1:1 ratio?


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## Teigansdad (Jul 24, 2010)

Finally finished my set up...works Great!
shimano SLX 9 speed cranks: double ring set up with Blackspire super pro 38T and 26T
dynasys XT shifters F and R
XT 9 sp FD
XT 10 sp RD
XTR 10 sp dynasys chain with wipperman connect link
XT 11 - 36 T 10 sp rear cassette
Ridden twice...shifts flawlessly. More to come after a race this weekend!


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## puckhead (Aug 9, 2004)

Yes, your can use SRAM RD and rear shifter with Shimano cranks, chainrings FD etc. Your front gear does not care what your rear gear is doing. I'm using SRAM RD and rear 10 speed shifter, Shimano 10 speed cassette, Shimano 10 speed chain and Blackspire 9 speed rings. Works fine.



bikeNY22 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I think this is a question that hasn't been addressed yet, but I may be wrong:
> 
> ...


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## Teigansdad (Jul 24, 2010)

*back from the lab*



Teigansdad said:


> Finally finished my set up...works Great!
> shimano SLX 9 speed cranks: double ring set up with Blackspire super pro 38T and 26T
> dynasys XT shifters F and R
> XT 9 sp FD
> ...


So I rode the above set up twice last week then took it out for it's intended purpose...raced on it yesterday. LOVED IT. No miss shifts,no skips, no hesitations on front shifts. Even cross chained more than I had intended in 38X36 combo and it just asked for more! So if any of you are hesitating on making a change hope the above helps.


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## Ecogeek (Aug 30, 2009)

ljsmith said:


> From what I understand the front 10 speed shifter is identical to the 9 speed shifter. The difference is in the geometry of the front derailleur. The 10 speed front derailleur moves slightly less per shift due to the 10 speed crankset using thinner rings with closer spacing. You can interchange the front derailleurs, but they will be very difficult to adjust. A 9 speed front derailleur on a 10 speed crankset will slightly overshift .....


The solution to this is to run a double crank. Use the stops to cheat things.
As long as it is set up to shift to the right point for the bigger ring, then setting the inner stop to stop the thing correctly for the other ring means no prob at all. Both positions the DL will be in 'exactly' the right place.

And 10sp is all about double cranks anyway for MTB. Double + bash is the way to go for real trail riding.
Riding MTB on the road. Sure, you want triple. But then you don't need 10sp anyway. + 9sp with thicker rings wears slower by definition. So save cash twice with no downside. And if you're wondering about intercompatibility of 9 and 10sp, then cash and durability/longevity are both relevant. So there is the solution. Double + bash. Or stay 9sp.
Even 9sp double + bash loses v little to 10sp. If you are racing, sure.
But this thread is not for racers. Its for those of us who care about bang for our buck. And IMO that is even more dominated than ever by 9sp now the prices are down.

_Maybe_ I could shave 1min of my favourite loop with 10sp. And be back in the car moments sooner. YAY, traffic!
I can definitely save some cash and plenty of minutes at home (which can be invested in going out and riding) by sticking w 9sp.

Personal opinion of course. I'll go 10 at some point. But what's the rush. Getting paid in time and cash to stay w 9 is just fine for a season or so. 9sp double+bash is great. 24-36 11-32 can handle almost anything rideable with moderately strong legs and reasonable lungs and has almost the same ratios. 
Use Sheldon Brown's (sheldonbrown.com) ratio calculator to check it out. Great tool for planning your drive.
Arguably, 10sp gives you one more 'useful' gear in the middle of the range.
But in reality, how often are you in the middle of the range? Going up you are in the low end. The rest in the high end. Middle is just for people who don't climb steep stuff and make a point of wearing all cogs evenly! Now that's REAL thrift! 
Give me 1000more gears in the middle and I'll still use the highest 3 and lowest 3 more than the rest combined as the actual ratios for these 6 don't change much. You pick parts that make these important ratios as high as you can handle on what you ride - however many other gears there are.

So your '27sp' bike is really about a 6-8sp.
And your '30sp' is ALSO about a 6-8sp!!!
So is an '18sp'.
Or an 'XX'.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

Here is a challenge. Go and ride a 7 or 8 speed bike. You might be upset at the old suspension or worn out tires, maybe the weight. But (assuming it's adjusted ok) the gearing will not bother you one bit. Because the *useful* ratios are all there, and the same as your 9. And will be the same as your 10.
10sp shaves weight and can reduce front shifting. Competitive advantage. If you're racing.
If you're not racing, one could argue that it is a competitive disadvantage in the game of life. Takes time and cash for little meaningful change in performance. New drive is expensive. If you have a budget (as we all do here), one can put that towards better/lighter tires/wheels/suspension that all affect your ride - and also affect times.

Don't get me wrong, 10sp is a welcome evo. But dropping anything/everything to pander to the 'must have' instinct is IMO getting carried away.
Go SRAM for 10sp IMO.


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## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

I happen to have a new 24/32/bash XTR 9 sp chainring set.
Will they work on my 10sp XT Tallboy


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## g3rG (Aug 29, 2009)

Yes.

Since last November I have been using a Shimano 10-sp front shifter with a Sram 9-sp RD, a Shimano 10-sp cassette, and a Sram 10-sp chain. It works because the full pull of the new Shimano 10-sp stuff is exactly the same as the full pull of the old Sram 9-sp stuff. The Shimano incompatibility engineers must have screwed up.

Shifting has been perfect, even when I screw up and shift under load. I do a lot of steep climbing, so the system has had some abuse. Since the install I haven't even had to adjust it.

gerG



Bikebr said:


> _"2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road "flat bar" 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push."
> 
> "This confirms what I read only once before. The Dyna-sys cable pull to rear derailleur rate is 1:1, like SRAM (9 Speed) now. I haven't heard if SRAM changed from 1:1 to something else for XX."
> 
> ...


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## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

So 9sp XTR chainrings will fit a 2011 XT crank.
That's great news.


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## betteron2wheels (May 1, 2008)

*Chain question*

Great thread! I'm pulling the trigger on a budget conversion, 9sp front with 10sp rear. I have an ultegra 6701 chain and need to know of it will work before I order parts. The configuration will be 970 (XTR 9 sp) crank and fr derailleur, 980 shifters, 771 cassette and 773 rear derailleur and chain TBD. It seems the mountain 10sp chains are "optimized" but that's the same thing Shimano says about their road chains which I have no problems mixing with SRAM road cranks and cassettes. Thanks!


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## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

i've read through this forum, but it doesnt seem like my question has been asked/answered. if it has, pardon my lack of comprehension.
i have 9spd every thing...rear cassette, chain, front and rear derailer..id like to get a new crankset...
if i get the dyna sys 10spd cranks will they work well with my old components?
the point of this is so i can go 10spd down the road when its necessary.
im planning on running it as a 2x9 for now, 2x10 down the road.


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## KPH (Aug 1, 2008)

murrdogg11 said:


> if i get the dyna sys 10spd cranks will they work well with my old components?
> the point of this is so i can go 10spd down the road when its necessary.
> im planning on running it as a 2x9 for now, 2x10 down the road.


I recently fitted an XTR crankset (3 chainrings, for 10 spd system), replacing an old set of XT (3 chainrings, for 9spd system).

I had to change the front mech to XTR 10spd and also the chain to a 10spd chain.

My current set up that works very well is:

Front shifter - 9-spd (sic) XTR 2008
Front Mech - 10 spd (sic) XTR 2011 - 3 chainring
Cranks/chainring - 10spd 3 chainring XTR 2011
Rear Shifter - 9 spd XTR 2008
Rear mech - 9 spd XTR 2008
Chain - 10 spd XTR 2011

Not buying in to all the marketing BS, but I did notice a significant different (for the the better) over the old XT in gear changes to a larger chain ring.


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## with_the_band (Jun 20, 2008)

Hi murrdogg11, I bought a 10 speed xt crankset and put my old 9 speed rings back on to it.

Works great. I plan on upgrading to 10 speed eventually.


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## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

KPH said:


> I recently fitted an XTR crankset (3 chainrings, for 10 spd system), replacing an old set of XT (3 chainrings, for 9spd system).
> 
> I had to change the front mech to XTR 10spd and also the chain to a 10spd chain.
> 
> ...


ok thanks for that....so basically i need a new chain and front derailer?


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## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

with_the_band said:


> Hi murrdogg11, I bought a 10 speed xt crankset and put my old 9 speed rings back on to it.
> 
> Works great. I plan on upgrading to 10 speed eventually.


thanks for the advice, however my current rings have no life left in them.


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## KPH (Aug 1, 2008)

murrdogg11 said:


> ok thanks for that....so basically i need a new chain and front derailer?


Yep, that's what I'd recommend

FYI, I paid US$43 for the XTR 10 spd chain and US$ 73 for the [conventional] front derailer


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## frenk (Jul 18, 2006)

KPH said:


> Yep, that's what I'd recommend
> 
> FYI, I paid US$43 for the XTR 10 spd chain and US$ 73 for the [conventional] front derailer


Interesting, I may do the same. Did you try with the 9s FD and changed because it wasn't working well or did you go straight to the 10s FD?

Also, is it possible to put a 22t XTR m970 granny on the m980 trail triple instead of the OEM 24t?


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## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

Anyone have 10spd chain reccomendations? On some of the reviews I've read people are complaining about breaking shimano 10spd chains.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

This thread has been helpful to me. I learned a few things. It would be nice if manufacturers made it a little easier to figure out this kind of information.


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## work-ed (Nov 13, 2006)

So I can purchase the SL-M770-10R rear shifter (non flat bar version) and it will be compatible with my 10 Speed Ultegra der?


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## kuolas (Jan 22, 2010)

work-ed said:


> So I can purchase the SL-M770-10R rear shifter (non flat bar version) and it will be compatible with my 10 Speed Ultegra der?


In theory... no. But, you could use Mega9 and your Ultegra, and it should work.

See this...
http://waltworks.blogspot.com/2011/04/teds-new-fork-artistic.html


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## work-ed (Nov 13, 2006)

Why would a 9sp rear shifter be my answer to a 10sp rear der and 10sp cassette? What about these?

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/SL407A08-Shimano++Sl-R770+10+Sp+Flat+Bar+Shifter.aspx


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## kuolas (Jan 22, 2010)

Sorry... 9s only.

You could use Tiagra 10s Flat Bar Shifters (new Tiagra is 10s) or a 10s Dyna-Sys Shadow rear mech. and shifters (why is no Shadow on the road groups?)

http://www.bikeradar.com/beginners/news/health/article/2011-shimano-tiagra-and-acera-first-look-29452/


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

kuolas said:


> why is no Shadow on the road groups?


Ha-ha, this could be marketed as aerodynamic improvement!
Maybe the roadies are too attached to the timeless aesthetics of the cable loop?


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## Harry Zimmermann (Jun 5, 2006)

work-ed said:


> So I can purchase the SL-M770-10R rear shifter (non flat bar version) and it will be compatible with my 10 Speed Ultegra der?


Dyna-Sys is the key. Finally, a buzz word that is actually useful!

Ten speed Dyna-Sys rear derailers and ten speed Dyna-Sys rear shifters are only compatible with one another. Neither will work with any other type of Shimano component.


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## eastongeneral (Mar 5, 2010)

I had been running a dyna sys 10 spd chain with my mixed 10 spd set up (SRAM shifters and derailuers Shimano dynasys chain, crank and cassette) and it shifted like crap. It was to a point where I thought I had installed the chain backwards. Also very loud. Then I went to a bigger chainring combo and needed more chain. I had a KMC XSL10 spd chain lying around and threw it on. Shifted like a dream immediately. Night and day. Not sure if the issue was with the SRAM derailuer mixed with Shimano chain or Dynasys is no good. Seemed to me that the cassette/chain match would be more important but maybe the pulleys on the SRAM with the shimano chain was the problem. Regardless, KMC chains work well with both sram and shimano 10spd parts


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

@dam said:


> So, I understand that chainrings are the same thickness, but the ramps are much more elaborate on Dyna Sys- especially on the granny side of the middle ring. Is this necessary to pick up the thinner chain? Has anyone tried running 10-spd chains on the 9-spd rings, particularly XT rings? I'm especially interested in the little ring, since a 24T granny is too big for me. A 22/36 sounds like a great granny for a 29er, and I really want to try it.


For the record, I replaced the 24T Dyna-Sys XT granny with a 22T 9-spd XT granny, and it works absolutely perfectly. They even looked the same, other than having two fewer teeth. I didn't even have to adjust anything- Plug 'n Play. Well, in all fairness, the granny to middle shift was slightly slow at first, but then I noticed I had a bunch of slack in the cable. Tightened that up and no-problem. Now the gearing on my 29er is only 5% higher than on my old 26er.

The 24T is a lot smoother when you're hauling butt, but for all-day self-supported high-vertical epics, the 22T will be great!


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## eastongeneral (Mar 5, 2010)

I was trying to go to a 2 ring setup from my 3 ring dyna sys and bought a 26t XTR granny ring. Turns out the rings (and cranksets) are specific to 2x10 and 3x10. The new granny is 2x10 specific and is off-set towards the centerline of the bike so it will not work with a starndard middle or SRAM 36t 10spd outer ring on a 3x10 crankset. When I put on the new granny with a 36t SRAM ring the throw was too long for the front derailuer so the was rubbing going on all over the place and I bet if you tried to ride it you would get the chain stuck between the rings. As if there weren't enough chainring standards already. What a pain in the ass.


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

eastongeneral said:


> I was trying to go to a 2 ring setup from my 3 ring dyna sys and bought a 26t XTR granny ring. Turns out the rings (and cranksets) are specific to 2x10 and 3x10. The new granny is 2x10 specific and is off-set towards the centerline of the bike so it will not work with a starndard middle or SRAM 36t 10spd outer ring on a 3x10 crankset. When I put on the new granny with a 36t SRAM ring the throw was too long for the front derailuer so the was rubbing going on all over the place and I bet if you tried to ride it you would get the chain stuck between the rings. As if there weren't enough chainring standards already. What a pain in the ass.


Just an FYI but you can getother 64mm bcd shimano 9 speed chain rings (XT)-

960 and 970 cranksets have an additonal ~2.5mm of offset toward the BB and require the use of ~2-2.5mm spacers to push the middle ring toward the BB when you use any other granny ring- This is apperant when trying to use the granny (64mm bcd) ring on other cranks, the granny ring itself has a different offset than other 64mm chain rings, meaning you will need to add the same ~2-2.5mm spacers when using it on any crank other than xtr....
It is possible your 26t XTR ring from the 980 Trail cranks has the same design and you could solve this by installing the spacers (I have the triple 980's which are the same bcd/arm as the trail cranks but have never confirmed this).

I used a 9 speed XTR 970 crank/der with an XT 26T granny and an LX 36T Middle ring with a bash and had no issues with shifting- and it was an e-type front derailleur so no way to adjust the position. I just needed to add the spacers to the middle ring...

Here is a thread that goes into more deatail if your interested:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=672753


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## eastongeneral (Mar 5, 2010)

knottshore said:


> Just an FYI but you can getother 64mm bcd shimano 9 speed chain rings (XT)-
> 
> 960 and 970 cranksets have an additonal ~2.5mm of offset toward the BB and require the use of ~2-2.5mm spacers to push the middle ring toward the BB when you use any other granny ring- This is apperant when trying to use the granny (64mm bcd) ring on other cranks, the granny ring itself has a different offset than other 64mm chain rings, meaning you will need to add the same ~2-2.5mm spacers when using it on any crank other than xtr....
> It is possible your 26t XTR ring from the 980 Trail cranks has the same design and you could solve this by installing the spacers (I have the triple 980's which are the same bcd/arm as the trail cranks but have never confirmed this).
> ...


If I use spacers to move the outer ring in, won't this create a really bad chain line? I have an XT crankset 3x10. XTR 64 mm bcd granny ring and SRAM XO 36t outer ring


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

eastongeneral said:


> If I use spacers to move the outer ring in, won't this create a really bad chain line? I have an XT crankset 3x10. XTR 64 mm bcd granny ring and SRAM XO 36t outer ring


You could definitely create a chain line issue...

If you have XT cranks (I have not seen specs but not aware anything but the rings changed from mega 9 to Dyna 10 on XT cranks) and wanted to put an xtr granny ring on them you would actually need to put the spacers between the granny and the spider on the crank. Ironically if you used the XTR granny on a non xtr crank and pushed the "middle" ring out with spacers you may end up with a chain line close to a current 2X?

Since the XO 36t ring is designed as an outer ring for a 2X (and the chainline on the cranks is definitely different) I am not too sure what the offset is nor the chain line of the XO 2X rings is and what affect it will have when installed on a 3X Crankset- but guessing it might cause additional compatibility problems (even though it is a 104bcd). Try pulling a measurement from the center of your seat tube with the original Shimano "middle" ring and then with the 36t Sram and see if they are the same or not- if they are the spacers on the granny should solve your issue. If not you may need to space the 36T (and possibly the xtr Granny as well) to get the chain line/spacing right.

Hope this helps-


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

*Still no solution to 9sp rear der with 10 speed shifters/cassette?*

Just received a brand new Mojo HD and was flabbergasted to find out Shimano has discontinued Rapid Rise. :madman: 

I know there are plenty of people who disagree, but I think RR deraillers are the best thing ever.

Is there any way at all to use a 9sp RR der with my new 10sp XT setup?

I was researching this a few months ago and remember someone positioned the cable differently on the der to change the pull ratio, thereby making use of the 9sp der possible with 10sp shifters but I cannot find the link.

Someone please help!  I don't want to have to go back to the old style derailler!!!


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

FYI, I'm one of those people who detests Rapid Rise! It sucks, it's dead. Good. :thumbsup:

If you are determined to inflict further pain, suffering and frustration on yourself and the unfortunate person(s) who maintains your bike, there might be a way.

According to various people here at MTBR, the new Shimano DynaSys derailleurs use the same cable travel as last year's 9 speed SRAM. So, what you need to do to be able to use RR is to convert this cable travel, using this: ShiftMate Straight model #6S, see: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate_straight.htm

You will have to figure out where to locate it, and your RR mech may not like 36T rear cogs, YMMV; caveat emptor and all that... :nono:

And no, I haven't tried it myself - this is all theoretical.


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

Thanks Satanas! I am glad we can agree to disagree. Been riding RR ders for about 5-6 years. I think they are great. But I never ride in the rain or mud so that may be a consideration. I maintain my own bikes (thanks to getting ripped off constantly by various LBS in youth) and have had nary a problem.

I may risk the $40 to try this out. Though I could have sworn I saw someone just flip the cable clamp on the der or something like that to adjust the amount of pull... 

Thanks again!



satanas said:


> FYI, I'm one of those people who detests Rapid Rise! It sucks, it's dead. Good. :thumbsup:
> 
> If you are determined to inflict further pain, suffering and frustration on yourself and the unfortunate person(s) who maintains your bike, there might be a way.
> 
> ...


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

There are some other information resources for getting mixed systems to work too.

Try this first: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

Chris Juden also links to other sources, and a summary of the Hubbub technique you alluded to above. FWIW, Shimano changed the cable travel for Dura-Ace in 1997, and the then-new derailleurs had a second cable groove so that they would work with the older shifters, so it's not a new idea.

Some of the other links I would have recommended appear to have died now, but I'm sure the one above and a bit of searching should get you started......


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

satanas said:


> There are some other information resources for getting mixed systems to work too.
> 
> Try this first: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946
> 
> ...


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

You're welcome! I hope it all works out for you. I've also been hoarding stuff, but in my case it's been old low-Q Ritchey cranks...

And yes, I'm sort of near a bay, but it's called Sydney Harbour.

I was looking at the new Mojo SLR and thinking it all looked good until I saw the new BB; shoulda been BB30 IMHO. <sigh>


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

For Jtek Shiftmate mounting, I put mine right next the the trigger shifter (Saint M810 in my case). Had to file down the nice golden barrel a little, but the result is well worth it. I think it's the best place to mount a Shiftmate.


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## Bikebr (Dec 25, 2009)

*Rear Der: 9V Sram = 10V Dynasys*



g3rG said:


> Yes.
> 
> Since last November I have been using a Shimano 10-sp front shifter with a Sram 9-sp RD, a Shimano 10-sp cassette, and a Sram 10-sp chain. It works because the full pull of the new Shimano 10-sp stuff is exactly the same as the full pull of the old Sram 9-sp stuff. The Shimano incompatibility engineers must have screwed up.
> 
> ...


Yes g3rg. Yesterday I made some tests (in bike stand only) an this are the results:
xtr 980 10V Shifter + X9 '09 9V rd + 10V cs81-10 = OK :thumbsup: 
xtr 980 10V Shifter + SLX 9V rd + 10V cs81-10 = NOK (as expected) :nono: 
X9 '09 9V Shifter + XT 773 10V rd + 9V cs770-9 = OK :thumbsup: 
X9 '09 9V Shifter + SLX 9V rd + 9V cs770-9 = NOK (as expected too) :nono:

Some remarks:
X9 rd needs a little bit longer cable lenght than shadows (dynasys or not). It's necessary to change the shifter cable to try this;
3x10 dynasys with 11-36 cogset needs long cage rd. My X9 rd is medium and the chain was too loose in granny;
It's necessary adjusts in h/l screws in rd and in shifter barrel to tune. This tune sounds harder for me.


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## 123ski (Jun 16, 2008)

what are some other options for this?

I have a 10-spd Dyna-Sys cassette.

Currently running an M552 crankset. I really don't need a big ring and would prefer a bashguard and chainguide. What I'd really like to do is run a 26-38 or 26-39 with a taco bashguard and chainguide.

is there anything I can do? I really like the Dyna-Sys and dont' want to swap out a complete drivetrain.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Why not just buy 2 chainrings??? The sizes you want will likely be available as spares from a number of sources, i.e., TA, Stronglight, Middleburn, FSA, etc, etc - basically everyone except Shimano and SRAM.


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## 123ski (Jun 16, 2008)

and those won't interefere with having a 10spd chain or a 10spd cassette?


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## 123ski (Jun 16, 2008)

^Does anyone know?

I have a 10-speed chain and 10-speed cassette..what happens if i use 9-speed double crankest with bashguard? or is there a way I can buy 10 speed chainrings instead? What I'd really like to do is run a 26-38 or 26-39 with a taco bashguard and chainguide.


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

123ski said:


> ^Does anyone know?
> 
> I have a 10-speed chain and 10-speed cassette..what happens if i use 9-speed double crankest with bashguard? or is there a way I can buy 10 speed chainrings instead? What I'd really like to do is run a 26-38 or 26-39 with a taco bashguard and chainguide.


You should not have any issue - just match the front derailleur to the cranks... so keep your 9 speed no need to use 10 speed chain rings the internal width is still the same- also your front/left shifter still has the same ratio so you will only have to change your rear shifter/derailleur to 10 speed.

Hope this helps- it is touched on earlier in the thread but it has gotten quite time consuming to navigate and get an answer-


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## 123ski (Jun 16, 2008)

^Thanks Knottshore. 

1 last question. I already have a 10sped 3ring installed with a DynaSys front shifter. 

What you are saying is that I can use 9spd 2ring crankset..but I will have to swap out my front shifter/derailleur if I do so?


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> You are correct. A 10 speed chain works great with a 9 speed crank and front derailleur. I actually like the 10 speed chain with a 9 speed front derailleur because it is easier to set it up so it never rubs due to the slightly wider cage.


My experience exactly.

I had the standard pre-DynaSys 9sp XT drivetrain on a Pivot 429. Left the front derailleur, front shifter, and cranks stock. Switched the rear derailleur, rear shifter, and chain to 10sp XT. The front shifts just like it always did, the rear shifts perfectly, too, and the chain rub issue for the front derailleur is less a problem than before as well.

Took the pre-DynaSys XT 9sp rear derailleur, put it on my monstercross frame, paired w/ DuraAce 7800 10sp STI shifter, works perfectly as well. Using a compact crankset and 11-36 cassette, freakishly low gear for my monstercross ride.

Mudge


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> It should work fine. However I have heard that a 10 speed front derailleur does not work optimally with a 9 speed crankset, I have not confirmed this though. I personally am using a 9 speed front derailleur and crankset with my system and it works great!


You should pair the front derailleur/shifter w/ the appropriate crankset. If you're using the older 9sp cranks w/ 22t inner ring, you'll want to stick w/ the 9sp shifter/derailleur.

Mudge


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

knottshore said:


> The Sram 9 speed (or other such as KMC etc..) will be too wide- I used a wipperman connex 10 speed link on my 10 speed xtr chain and it has been working great- no issues after quite a few rides...


Either the Wipperman or KMC 10sp quick links will work just fine. I've got one of each on two different bikes, no problems whatsoever.

Mudge


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

satanas said:


> FYI, I'm one of those people who detests Rapid Rise! It sucks, it's dead. Good. :thumbsup:
> 
> If you are determined to inflict further pain, suffering and frustration on yourself and the unfortunate person(s) who maintains your bike, there might be a way.
> 
> ...


Just wasted about $100 trying to f-ing do this conversion. Ordered the $40 shiftmate and it changed the ratio correctly but the der had a hard time shifting into the biggest cog. Seemed like if it had a stronger spring it would happen. The der is an XTR RR.

But, just to make sure it wasn't something I was doing I took it to my LBS. What a f-ing mistake. Made me remember why I NEVER NEVER NEVER take any of my precious rides to the LBS.

The guy didn't really understand what the shiftmate *did* and removed it (with the shiftmate the der travels over three gears per shift click) and then just spouted off some nonsense... "yah man.. i don't think it's gonna work..."

The topper: While taking the bike off the stand he broke off the hydraulic fitting for the Rockshox Reverb seatpost. They ordered the parts and promised to repair it for me for free but I'm almost afraid to take my bike back there.

Totes AWES!! I *love* Shimano and all their F-ing shenigans.

I am reluctant to spend any more time or money on this but I hate top normal derailers. They suck. It's like "whoa, there is a technical/uphill/difficult section up ahead. I better take my thumb, the extremely important digit that is helping me hold on to the handlebars, and try to w-w-wwwrench the thumbshifter to a bigger cog." Makes so much sense! NOT.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Sorry it hasn't worked. :-(

You're not trying to use a 36T rear cog are you? If so, it might help to either wind in the B-tension screw (so that the top jockey wheel will clear the larger cog) or replace it with a longer screw if this isn't enough. This *may* cause another problem - the top pulley will be further from the smaller cogs and may slow shifting there. You could also try fitting a smaller top jockey wheel (i.e., with fewer teeth) to gain clearance; this is one possible source: http://www.torontocycles.com/Selling/Derailleur.html

Supposedly only the "Shadow" derailleurs (DynaSys and previous) are meant to work with 36T cogs. However, my experience with Shimano road derailleurs is that one can virtually always successfully use a cog 2-6T larger than Shimano recommend.

You could also just give up on the 36T cog and revert to 34T (or 32T).

One of the reasons why I didn't like RR derailleurs is that IME they are generally much touchier to get working properly. As you have discovered, it doesn't take much to stop them shifting to a larger cog. Low friction cables (Gore is recommended) may help your problem, and will reduce finger effort and help shifting reliability all round.

Of course, at some point one has to decide it's all just too hard. :madman:

You could always try an IGH... :thumbsup:

PS: I used to work in the (so-called) "bicycle industry" and I would *NEVER* let anyone I didn't know extremely well work on my bike!!! In practice, that means I do everything except frame repairs and painting, and fork/shock service requiring specialised tools myself. Many guys are working in shops because either 1) they foolishly think it might be a cool job, or 2) they are cheap labour. Remember, you get what you pay for!


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

satanas said:


> Sorry it hasn't worked. :-(
> 
> You're not trying to use a 36T rear cog are you? If so, it might help to either wind in the B-tension screw (so that the top jockey wheel will clear the larger cog) or replace it with a longer screw if this isn't enough. This *may* cause another problem - the top pulley will be further from the smaller cogs and may slow shifting there. You could also try fitting a smaller top jockey wheel (i.e., with fewer teeth) to gain clearance; this is one possible source: http://www.torontocycles.com/Selling/Derailleur.html
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. What is confounding to me is that when the cable is removed (or very very slack) the der moves to the large 36T cog just fine.

So, yes, I did crank the B-tension screw all the way but it will not quite make it to the big cog when the cable is adjusted properly. I almost think if a stronger spring were in the der it would work. I know one used to be able to get stronger springs for Shimano ders back in the day but I have no idea about this now.

Obviously it is not an ideal setup, mechanically. The pulley/shiftmate does what it is supposed to do but introduces just a touch of play in the cable that cannot be adjusted out.

I am giving up at this point and just putting on the brand-new XT 10sp der. I supposed I'll be missing shifts (by shifting the wrong way) all summer but will eventually learn.

I am still in shock that the goofball at the shop broke my reverb seatpost and there are a couple small nicks in the clear matte of my brand new Ibis Mojo... Never again will I take my bike to a shop. :madman:

Thanks.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Given that the problem goes away when the cable is removed, the cause has to be cable friction, IME the Achilles heel of RR. Although they are undoubtedly expensive, I can highly recommend Gore cables; they will reduce friction as low as it can go, plus they are extremely well-sealed and will often work in mud/slurry that will jam normal cables. If they're not disturbed too often (and they don't need lube so they shouldn't be), they can last a long, long time. I'm still using the cable set I bought in 1997, and have changed shifters once in the meantime. Might be a bit out there but years ago SRAM used to make something called a Bassworm: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ba-n.html#bassworm which might make things work if you could track one down...

Still, I think switching to a normal derailleur and getting acclimatised will give the better long-term result.

Not all shops or mechanics are bad but one needs to be *very* selective! Breaking a seatpost seems a bit OTT...


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## What&son (Jan 13, 2004)

KPH said:


> I recently fitted an XTR crankset (3 chainrings, for 10 spd system), replacing an old set of XT (3 chainrings, for 9spd system).
> 
> I had to change the front mech to XTR 10spd and also the chain to a 10spd chain.
> 
> ...


Hey, I was thinking abo ut doing the same upgrade (a 10sp xtr crank on an otherwise 9 drivetrain) but my lbs has just told me they could never get a 10 sp chain shift well over the 9 cassete. 
I understand the need for a 10 sp fr deraill. But is the 10 sp chain a must? 
Cheers


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

I doubt you need to change the front mech. You *may* need to adjust the limit screws and cable tension a bit, but otherwise no reason I can see why it shouldn't work. 

Usually narrower chains play better with wider cogs than vice versa, but why not just try what you have and see what happens? (Hint: That's how people figure out what works.) 

Still, if you do need a new chain chances are good you'll have to replace your not-new casette as well. If you're gong to do that it might be worth thinking about getting a 10 speed cassette (assuming you have no religious objections to same) and a *road* 10 speed RH flat-bar shifter, which will work with your pre-DynaSys MTB rear mech. If you decide to go this route there is some anecdotal evidence that Shadow mechs are okay with 36T cogs but others may be limited to 34T.

What I don't understand - and you haven't stated - is whay you might want to "upgrade" the crankset in the first place. (I'm hoping your answer isn't something like "XTR is shinier!" or "It goes to 11.") Perhaps if you told us your goal(s) we could be more helpful. :nono:


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Just tried a Dyna-Sys SLX RD with X0 9spd shifters. Works just fine.


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## Progen (May 9, 2011)

ljsmith said:


> ...
> 
> 4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. *A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.*
> 
> ...


Will it be EXACTLY the same as using a front derailleur marked for 9 speed use? I'm eyeing a current model low clamp 10 speed Deore XT which has been priced quite cheap. Used to ignore it because I wanted to get a conventional high clamp one instead but in another thread, was advised to get a low clamp since the lowest bottle mounting bolt on the Rocky Mountain Hammer 29er is almost where the clamp on a high clamp derailleur would be.

ps. My crankset's a Deore M590 rated for 9 speed use. Shifters are Saint M800 dual control ones.


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## Snake Muesl (Apr 17, 2005)

Add to the pile:

Just spent a frustrating evening hoping to put the finishing touches on my new Sultan. I'm building it from a mix of parts off my Enduro and the stock "Trail Kit" from Turner, including the Enduro's 9-spd XT/XTR drivetrain. However, the front derailleur I attempted to employ is from the stock build kit, a Shimano SLX DynaSys, necessary due to the top-pull only requirement for the Sultan. This setup does not work.

Thanks for some useful info here, I can quit wasting my time and go purchase a new front derailleur.

A question though: will a SRAM Fr Der work with XTR shifters? Or should I stick with Shimano. SRAM will fit on the Sultan without the hack-saw modification needed for Shimano.

Thanks


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Progen: It probably won't be exactly the same, but then what ever is? Should still work though. I wouldn't worry too much about the high clamp being a close fit, and you could always file the clamp a bit if there was a mm or two of overlap.

SM: Shouldn't be any problems mixing and matching Shimano and SRAM fronts. Ibis have done this on some of their bikes due to height adjustment issues on their Mojo frames with 2x10 and smaller outer rings. It's the rear derailleurs that have the cable pull issues...


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## Progen (May 9, 2011)

Thanks, satanas!


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

I just put a short cage Sram X.0 9-speed RD on my dynasis 1x10 setup. After setting the high and low limits it shifts just as well if not better than my long cage XT dynasis.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Thanks for posting that; More evidence that DynaSys cable travel is the same as SRAM 9 speed.


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## julesverne (Nov 4, 2008)

what do you think of a sram x-o 3x9 set up with a xtr dynasys front derailleur?
i am building a tracer 2 with a xtr m970 crank
i have it installed but have not ridden it yet..seems like the range is not too wide on the rear without the chain hitting the front derailleur


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Cannot see why it shouldn't work, although you may find it works slightly better if the front derailleur matches the chainwheel sizes.


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## slowandlow (Jun 6, 2004)

My apologies if I missed this in the thread somewhere.

Will a 9 speed xt cassette and 9 speed xt shifter work with a dyna-sys 10 speed RD m773

Thanx!


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

slowandlow said:


> My apologies if I missed this in the thread somewhere.
> 
> Will a 9 speed xt cassette and 9 speed xt shifter work with a dyna-sys 10 speed RD m773
> 
> Thanx!


No.


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## slowandlow (Jun 6, 2004)

rkj__ said:


> No.


Thanx!


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## huka (Feb 7, 2009)

satanas said:


> ^ Thanks for posting that; More evidence that DynaSys cable travel is the same as SRAM 9 speed.


Hi Satanas, 
does it mean that you suggest that I can change my 9sp SRAM X9 RD with Shimano XT/SLX Dynasys10sp RD without changing my 9sp X9 shifter.?


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## Noveloco (Dec 3, 2010)

Tnks for all the info in this post, just something i dont understand.
Can i use a new xtr m980 28-36 crankset, with all my m970 setup? 
- cassette 11-32
- fd and rd
- dual shifters
- kmc x9 sl gold ti

I really like the great lookin of the m980 crankset.


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## frenk (Jul 18, 2006)

You can, but you'll have to run a 10-speed chain (and possibly a 10-speed front der).


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## Noveloco (Dec 3, 2010)

Tnks for your answer Frank, but putting the Correct limits in the actual fd should work? Or is really necessary the change?
The chain isnt a problem.


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

*38/26 t M980 XTR Chainrings on M970 XTR Cranks*



What&son said:


> Hey, I was thinking abo ut doing the same upgrade (a 10sp xtr crank on an otherwise 9 drivetrain) but my lbs has just told me they could never get a 10 sp chain shift well over the 9 cassete.
> I understand the need for a 10 sp fr deraill. But is the 10 sp chain a must?
> Cheers


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just finished converting my 2007 FC-M970 Crankset 44/32/24 to 38/26 using FC-M980 Chainrings !

Parts Purchased ;

FC-M980 38T-AH Chainring part # Y1LR98030 
FC-M980 26T-AH Chainring part # Y1LR26000
FC-M800 FIX Bolts Part # Y1FB98010 only used 4 mm spacer from kit.

M970 Chainring thickness 1.96mm
M980 Chainring thickness 1.88mm this is only .0003 " not any differance !

I mounted the 38t using the stock lenght M970 XTR bolts and placed the above chainrings spacer under the head to fill the gap left by the removal of thhe 44 t large chainring this has a 4 mm thickness were the bolt goes throught the chainring, then mounted the 26 tooth chainring.

The M980 26t chainring has the exact same offset as the M970 22 or 24t Chainrings (2.1mm) Used my M970 XTR shifter and FD-970 XTR front Derailleur with only a small height adjustment. Just got back from a quick test ride and shifts great maybe a little smoother !

The small to middle spacing is exactly the same !

Weights 38t-79 grams / 26t -36 grams / qty Alum 4mm Spacers 2 grams for a total of 117 grams, M970 44/32/24= 156 grams / 44/32/22 = 148 grams so I saved 39 grams !

Pictures to follow left my camera at work. Very easy 2x9 conversion with a little research for the right spacers, I tried to fine shorter bolts however I was not able to fine the short female side that would be required. I think the stock M980 FIX bolts would work exept they were $$$ 68.00 for the set !

Still Using all the rest og my M970 XTR drive train RD-M970 and chain !
__________________


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

Spin Cycle, I'll take those old 22T and 32T M970 chainrings if they don't have visible wear.


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

jabrabu said:


> Spin Cycle, I'll take those old 22T and 32T M970 chainrings if they don't have visible wear.


Send me a PM


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## Noveloco (Dec 3, 2010)

Spin cycle, so you think that if i use the m980 26 -38 crankset, with all my m970 stuff, will work? Just setting the limits of the fd and maybe using a spavcer?


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

Noveloco said:


> Spin cycle, so you think that if i use the m980 26 -38 crankset, with all my m970 stuff, will work? Just setting the limits of the fd and maybe using a spavcer?


I measured everything before and after and the spacing between the chain rings is the same, as I posted the differance in the chain ring thickness is .003 if an inch ! Just got back from a 2 hour ride and no problems. I spent a good amount of time with it on the stands setting the height of my front derailluer (FD-970 low mount) currently set at 3 mm above the 38 t ring and shifting great. I should add that I all waays have run my chain line at 46.5 mm not the standard 50mm that is the stock set up for FC-M970 crank set, I just removed the center dust tube and run a .7mm spacer on the drive side and a 2.5 & .7mm on the non drive side this moved the chain ring into the frame 3.5 mm. Then add a 2 mm pedal spacer to equal it out at the pedals.

The key is to buy the FC-800 chain ring bolts to get the 4.0 mm spacer unless you can find some really short female side bolts to mount the middle ring. It works better that I ever thought. PM me if you want .


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## ianjames9373 (Aug 3, 2011)

*Hello from Australia and a question...*

Hello everyone, first time on this site and I need some advice. I have decided to step out of my comfort zone and build a mountain bike. I am working on a Baum Titanium hardtail frame, medium size. I am up to the stage of trying to work out what size crankset to buy. After reading through some of the information on the posts I have established when it is stated 175mm that refers to crank arm length. I am 185 cms tall, so what length would you advise? Next question relates to bottom bracket. Does the length and width of bottom brackets vary or is it standard sizing for all mountain bikes. I am concerned that if I purchase a bottom bracket off the net, then I could be in the position of purchasing the incorrect size. If I need to get a particular size how would I determine the sizing. I know I sound like I do not know what I am doing, and you are right, but I guess that there is only one way to learn and that is from the hip pocket. I look forward to using this site for regular technical advice and if any of you guys are ever plan on coming out to OZ, please let me know as I am looking for someone to go riding with, cheers Ian

This is what I am looking to purchase: 
Race Face Evolve Crankset SS 175mm
Arms are net shape forged from high strength 6066 aluminum to maximize strength to weight ratio. All-Mountain strength at XC weight. 
High wearing 7075 aluminum chainrings feature extensive CNC machining for shifting accuracy and sharp looks. 
Evolve cranksets feature our 'EXI' interface external bottom bracket system for easier crank installation and removal with standard tools and fully adjustable chainline. 
Features the lightweight, forged and CNC machined CrMo steel EXI spindle. 
Bearings feature our custom triple wiper seal to better retain grease & keep contaminants out. 
Comes with the all new Race XC BB 
Bearings are factory filled with Phil Wood waterproof grease - tested & proven to extend bearing life.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

ianjames9373,

I'd go with 175 mm cranks.

As for BB size, RF EXI type cranksets can be installed out of the box on 68 and 73 mm BB shells. Measure BB shell width on your frame, it is likely 68 or 73 mm. Also verify that the threads are English standard (left hand thread at the right side, right hand thread on the left side).


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

ok i have been out of the biking scene for a while and notice this 10 speed set ups now. i have tried to read through this whole thread but just looking for some quick answer. i have a 9 speed set up right now. and planning to get a new bike with a 10 speed drive train. all i want to swap from my 9 speed to me 10 speed is my 26/36/48 crankset will this cranset be compatible with the 10 speed set up?


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## cpclydesdale (Jan 21, 2010)

No. I've been down this path and it wasn't pretty. 1st I tried just running my same old 2x9 Dues XC crankset and the new 10 speed chain would get stuck in between the rings and not seat properly on the teeth. 2nd I tried changing to 10 speed rings and keeping the cranks, this just made the chain getting stuck between the rings worse. Chainring washers didn't help, because it weakened the rings and allowed them to flex. 3rd I ordered an X9 2x10 crank and F. derailleur, mounted it, and now I ride with no issues and a stiffer more direct crankset.

Don't make the mistakes I did. Just get a complete 10 speed drivetrain.


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## What&son (Jan 13, 2004)

*My own kind dyna-sys*

I decided to get rid of the TOO large 44 outer on my crankset. Got a 40 outer and also thought that would´t hurt to have the same tooth diff from the small to the 32 middle so also got a 24 small. Now the drivetrain is 24-32-40. Pretty much like a dyna-sys. Note there is always a 8 teeth jump from either ring. Feels nicer. All drivetrain is 9 speed.Also got a 11-34 cogset to compensate the larger 24 granny.
The problem came when I tried to adjust the front derailleur.(still a 9sp low clamp XTR) There was no way to get it right. Since the larger ring was way smaller I had to move the derailleur down, but then the inner cage would jam with the middle chainring. That forced me to leave the derailleur way upper than I liked and shifting was never good. But looking closer I found that a derailleur with a less tall inner cage would clear the middle ring just fine and started looking for it. I went to the LBS and started checking different derailleurs. All looked more or less like have the same problem.Then I got a XTR 10 sp dyna-sys on my hands, placed on the bike and was looking like it would clear it. Went home, installed it and...voilà! Shifts perfect (remember I use 9 sp shifters, xtr), it doesn´t rub in any combo, it drops to the small instantly (also a problem to solve with the low-clamp 9sp xtr I had before) Instant and crisp shifts. I really mean it when I say is the best adjusted derailleur I had in my 18 years of riding.
I don´t know if it would perform tha same on a normal 22-32-44 crankset, I dunno it. But if you go the same route of trying to make your own kind of dyna-sys crankset is definitely the way to go.


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## 123ski (Jun 16, 2008)

so what is the answer here. 

I have a 3x10 system (24,32,42) with 11-36. 

I want to change this to 2x10 w/bash (racefacelight bash) (24, 36) 11-36. 

What 36T chainring would be best for this?


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## darzsiklista (Jun 16, 2011)

how about a 10 spd rd and shifter and a 9 spd sprocket??


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## karl711 (Mar 26, 2009)

DeeEight said:


> Because in order to improve the reliability of the mtb 10 speed shifting, shimano has finally admitted to themselves that SRAM had the right idea lowering the leverage ratio of the rear derailleur cable pull geometry (which makes the derailleur less sensitive to cable stretch and tension changes from shifter housing movement on a rear suspension bike). So the shifters now pull more cable than before for each shift. SRAM's 10 speed shifters and derailleurs also pull more cable than their 9 speed units. I believe the SRAM 10 speed works out as a 0.8:1 ratio now, their 8/9 speed stuff is 1:1, all shimano derailleurs except the new 10speed mtb (and the 7/8 speed DuraAce) are 2:1 and the shimano 10s MTB is I believe its been measured out as something like 1.25:1.


I know I'm dragging up an old post here, but from what you're saying, in theory you can set up a 10 speed system using the new xt/xtr front shifters with the old xo 9 speed rear mech & a 10 speed cassette.


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## frenk (Jul 18, 2006)

karl711 said:


> I know I'm dragging up an old post here, but from what you're saying, in theory you can set up a 10 speed system using the new xt/xtr front shifters with the old xo 9 speed rear mech & a 10 speed cassette.


I've just re-read the whole thread and based on what people tried and reported, 9sp SRAM rear ders are in fact interchangeable with 10sp Dyna-Sys units.


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## Gokart2 (Jun 8, 2009)

Read the whole thing as well....but couldn't find the answer to my question. Will the SRAM 10 speed chain(s) and cassette(s) work with the Shimano Dyna-Sys 10 speed RD (1x10 setup)?


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

Gokart2 said:


> Read the whole thing as well....but couldn't find the answer to my question. Will the SRAM 10 speed chain(s) and cassette(s) work with the Shimano Dyna-Sys 10 speed RD? Can't exactly figure out how and why EXACTLY the Shimano chains are directional...? I know it's for "the bestest shifting in the galaxy", but thats about it.


You should not run into any issue using the XT Dyna RD- the special profile/directional chain only affects the outside of the chain_


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## Gokart2 (Jun 8, 2009)

Shimano XT, SLX Go 10-speed In 2010 | Cyclingnews.com
"Chain (CN-HG94): The new HG-X 10-speed chains are directional (the right-hand side is optimised for front shifting and the left for rear shifting), so make sure you fit them with the logos on the outside. The zinc alloy plated XT version costs £34.99."

Cant figure this out for the life of me....


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

*2 x 9 problem in 38 x 11 combo !*



Spin Cycle said:


> I measured everything before and after and the spacing between the chain rings is the same, as I posted the differance in the chain ring thickness is .003 if an inch ! Just got back from a 2 hour ride and no problems. I spent a good amount of time with it on the stands setting the height of my front derailluer (FD-970 low mount) currently set at 3 mm above the 38 t ring and shifting great. I should add that I all waays have run my chain line at 46.5 mm not the standard 50mm that is the stock set up for FC-M970 crank set, I just removed the center dust tube and run a .7mm spacer on the drive side and a 2.5 & .7mm on the non drive side this moved the chain ring into the frame 3.5 mm. Then add a 2 mm pedal spacer to equal it out at the pedals.The key is to buy the FC-800 chain ring bolts to get the 4.0 mm spacer unless you can find some really short female side bolts to mount the middle ring. It works better that I ever thought. PM me if you want .


Adjusted everything change chain line and everything works great except the 38 x 11 , I need this 11 tooth cog on downhills and if I ready loadup the torque it slips on the cog then will catch. Tried differnet b screw setting chain line looks great and can run the 38 x 34 combo ( alot of chain angle ) that what I can't figure out as I space the chainline back out to 46.8 mm only using one 1.8 mm spacer on the drive side instead of qty 2 2.5 mm and the 38 x 11 looks great still slips any help ???


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## Ranger Pride (Jan 21, 2005)

I have the 2011 XT Dynasis 3x10 system and just ordered their new 2x10 crank. My question is do I need to order the new 2x10 front derailleur and the new version front shifter that converts from 3 ring to 2 or can I run what I have and just change the limit screws on the derailleur?


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## Spin Cycle (Nov 6, 2004)

*WHich Chain, XTR M 980 vs. KMC X-10SL ??*

How running waht chain?? Current set up 10 speed XTR M980 38/26 cranks & 9 speed XTR M970 Cassette.
Heard alot of good things about the KMC chains , anyone running the new 10 speed XTR chain w/ 9 speed cassette ?


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

Edit- 

The old XTR rear derailleur and the new Dyna Sys rear derailleur don't use the same ratio, from what I've gleaned here. 

I was hoping to use my old 9 speed shifters with the new XTR rear derailleur. 

Waaaaaaaah! Oh well...


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## FaithRaven (Apr 13, 2011)

Hello

I'm gonna ask several questions here because I can't create a new thread due to low post count so please bare with me and eventually answer my questions.

I'm gonna purchase a Specialized Epic Comp that comes with:
FRONT DERAILLEUR	: SRAM X.7, 10-speed, S3 direct mount for DMD, bottom pull
REAR DERAILLEUR: SRAM X.9, 10-speed, long cage
SHIFT LEVERS: SRAM X.7, 10-speed, aluminum trigger
CASSETTE: Shimano HG81, 10-speed, 11-36t
CHAIN: KMC X10, 10-speed, w/ reuseable Missing Link, nickel plates
CRANKSET: Custom SRAM S-1250, 7050 alloy arms, 10-speed triple, GXP spindle, S: 170mm, others: 175mm
CHAINRINGS: 44A x 33A x 22S, 4-bolt, 104/64mm
BOTTOM BRACKET: SRAM GXP, outboard bearing

I also own a almost-new 2011 Dynasys XT transmission. 

I have no knowledge whatsoever of SRAM transmission so I wonder if my current transmission is much better than Specialized setup and if:
1. I should swamp it all (will the crankset fit the frame? which XT front derraileur I need to buy for that frame?)
OR
2. Upgrade shifters and front derailleur to X9 and cassette to XT.
OR
3. Swap only some parts.

Thanks in advance!


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

FaithRaven, I'd leave the front derailer as is and install everything XT that would fit.


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## FaithRaven (Apr 13, 2011)

Thank you for your response. 

It is that big of a difference between the 2 transmissions ? Even if I upgrade cassette to XT, shifters and FD to X9 ?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

The difference is not big enough to justify buying full XT drivetrain instead of what is on the bike, but since you already have it, why not swap?

There is no single decisive advantage, but a sum of small ones, each gained from respective component.


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## elpoocho (Jan 8, 2008)

I have brain ache from reading through this over and over...just to confirm

I have a CX bike running 10sp 105 (5600 I believe) I want to switch over to a flat bar.
Rather than spending over $200 for the flat bar road shifters (which apparently will not work with the 105 F derailluer) , I'm hoping that I could run some 9sp LX or XT shifters for the rear & front derailluers. Correct ?


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## cpclydesdale (Jan 21, 2010)

Not correct, the shimano 10 speed rear road derailleurs have a different parallelogram than the pull ratio for 9 speed mtb. You won't hit all your gears, especially in the middle of the range.


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## Jrmurphy12 (Dec 21, 2009)

Thanks for the comments on the 10 speed drivetrain vs 9speed. I've decided to save some money and stick with my Deore 9 speed system. 
I have a question about the compatibility of some shifters someone gave me. They are the Shimano Deore LX, ST-M585 Dual Control Levers, for disc brakes. Can I set them up with my old brake pad system?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

I need a little advice. I've read this thread and if I'm not mistaken I should be able to run a 10 speed RD, cassette, chain and rear shifter with my 9 speed FD , crankset and shifter.

My question is about gearing, I'm not a strong climber and I want to drop my large ring for a bash.

I currently have a XT M770 44-32-22 front and XT 11-34 cassette.

What rear 10spd cassette and which two front rings would you recommend for a poor climber?

Thank


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## ryguy135 (Sep 24, 2010)

Ok, here's one. I'm currently running a 1x10 setup with XT dynasys shifters and an XTR rear long cage derailleur. I'm wanting to get a short cage derailleur to help out shifting. Do I need a 9-speed or 10-speed XO rear derailleur, or does it matter? Thanks!


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## Teigansdad (Jul 24, 2010)

TwoTone said:


> I need a little advice. I've read this thread and if I'm not mistaken I should be able to run a 10 speed RD, cassette, chain and rear shifter with my 9 speed FD , crankset and shifter.
> 
> My question is about gearing, I'm not a strong climber and I want to drop my large ring for a bash.
> 
> ...


The rear cassette question is easy....go with the 11 -36 cassette. Front chain ring selection depends on how often you bail to granny now. I run 11-36 in back and 38X26 in front. Have never felt like I was needing more gearing. I use this primarily on my race bike. That being said I am not the weakest climber out there and I haven't brought that bike to the mountains yet, just raced that combo all summer so haven't really even needed to test the 26 t granny. If you bail now to granny a lot, I would keep the 22T. If you are going with bash in the front then I think a 36T is about as big as you can go. You could stay with the 32 if you want (if you never find yourself going into the 44 now that is reasonable). You can go to blackspire.com and get pretty much any chain ring size you want. I think a 34 T would be a nice compromise for the front, you could start there and just experiment. 
have fun!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Teigansdad said:


> The rear cassette question is easy....go with the 11 -36 cassette. Front chain ring selection depends on how often you bail to granny now. I run 11-36 in back and 38X26 in front. Have never felt like I was needing more gearing. I use this primarily on my race bike. That being said I am not the weakest climber out there and I haven't brought that bike to the mountains yet, just raced that combo all summer so haven't really even needed to test the 26 t granny. If you bail now to granny a lot, I would keep the 22T. If you are going with bash in the front then I think a 36T is about as big as you can go. You could stay with the 32 if you want (if you never find yourself going into the 44 now that is reasonable). You can go to blackspire.com and get pretty much any chain ring size you want. I think a 34 T would be a nice compromise for the front, you could start there and just experiment.
> have fun!


Thanks for the input, I do hit the large ring as my trails are rolling so I have a bunch of shallow, long downhills I like to pedal on.

You don't think a 22-34 is too big of a jump?


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## ryguy135 (Sep 24, 2010)

Most 2x10's run a 3:2 ratio, ie 24/36, 26/39, 28/42. 22-34 obviously is slightly larger than 22/33, but no enough it should make any difference.


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## Teigansdad (Jul 24, 2010)

TwoTone said:


> Thanks for the input, I do hit the large ring as my trails are rolling so I have a bunch of shallow, long downhills I like to pedal on.
> 
> You don't think a 22-34 is too big of a jump?


I have run a 36X22 in the front before...works fine mechanically but for sure from a standpoint of feel...it doesn't seem to flow. Where I live I almost never use granny in cases where granny gear was useful the big jump doesn't seem to matter because I used it so rarely. 
I LOVE 38X26 :thumbsup:. Have yet to feel like I am missing anything. Actually with the 11-36 in the back have only once gone to granny and that was in a endurance race after my legs started to cramp 4.5 hrs into it. If you are not a strong climber I am not sure I would go with a 26T as your bailout (if you are using granny a bunch now) but you would probably do just fine with a 24T granny and this would flow better. If you are not using granny much go with a 26T as granny with the 11-36 in back. I would not go smaller than 36T in front. I really like 38T as my outer ring. You would have to abandon the bash guard idea if you do this and go with the single speed chain ring bolts. You can get those on blackspire as well.


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## Teigansdad (Jul 24, 2010)

I would not go smaller than 36T in front. I really like 38T as my outer ring. You would have to abandon the bash guard idea if you do this and go with the single speed chain ring bolts. You can get those on blackspire as well.[/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure the largest you can go with bash guard is 36T.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Will a SRAM XO twist front derailleur shifter work with the new 10 speed front derailleurs from SRAM and Shimano? I was wanting to use some larger rings such as a 24/36 or maybe a 26/38 on my XTR 970 9 speed crank and the new 10 speed derailleurs seem to be designed for these ring combinations.


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## insaint (Oct 9, 2011)

Hi, I just messed up my 9 speed chain on a 9 speed group, i was thinking of replacing it with a 10 speed chain, will it work?


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## cHoc Nr1 (May 31, 2005)

Wrong tread....


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

ljsmith said:


> 4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, *but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset*. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.


I'm not sure about the bold part. I recently replaced my old 3spd crank with a 2x10 X9 crank. I've kept the rest 9spd: Deore FD and shifters, XT RD and a KMC X9.93 chain. The shifts up front are way better than wth the old Deore tripple. I guess the chainrings are more important than the FD itself?


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## evoracer (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok, I've read this entire thread and now kinda numb...

This is what I am working with:

Sram X9 10spd RD & shifter, 10spd cassette outback

XT 3x9spd crank & rings with X9 9spd FD

Can I use the Sram 10spd FD shifter or do I have use a 9spd?


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## evoracer (Feb 26, 2008)

Any info???


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## ryguy135 (Sep 24, 2010)

Shimano and Sram front shifters and derailleurs are compatible. You can use a 9 speed FD on a 10 speed setup and vice versa, but performance will diminish slightly as the inner width of the derailleur cage is designed for the chain's width, which varies slightly for 9 and 10 speed.


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## evoracer (Feb 26, 2008)

Thnx


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## FaithRaven (Apr 13, 2011)

I'm going to purchase a Specialized Epic FSR 2010 Frame that comes with a 9 speed front derailleur and I'm looking to replace it with a 10 speed one. Is Shimano XT Front Mech E-Type 10sp (found on CRC) the right one ?


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## frankoid (Nov 19, 2011)

Thanks for the useful information on this thread. I thought I'd add my experience.

I built up a 2002 Jekyll with a new 3x10 XT groupset this summer. The groupset came with a top swing front derailleur, which didn't fit my frame, so I ran it with the Deore 9 speed front mech that was already on the frame for a while. It worked, but shifting at the front wasn't great, especially when it got muddy.

I've just been for my first ride after fitting a 2012 XT front mech, and shifting is better although it's still a bit reluctant to shift down into the granny sometimes. It wasn't as muddy today as it was when the 9 speed front mech was performing at it's worst, so I can't say what difference the 10 speed one will make in bad conditions yet.

When I was swapping them I compared them, and the plates on the 9 speed one are definitely taller than on the 10 speed one. The recess in the inner plate (the one that's level with the middle chainring) is smaller too. It looks like the 10 speed one is designed for the close ratio chainrings that are part of the 10sp groupset - in fact according to the specs it isn't designed to work with any wider range than the 24/32/42 that the 10sp chainrings have.


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## coursemyhorse (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi all. First post. I'll be clear. I want to run a 1 x 10 setup with 11-36 rear cassette and 32 single front chain ring. I will be buying all from scratch. I want to run a short cage rear derailleur and notice Shimano only do a medium or long cage. SRAM do a short one. So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur? If so what SPD bits do I need to buy in what make? Will it work?

Or do Shimano do a short cage rear derailleur in XT/XTR?


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

coursemyhorse said:


> Hi all. First post. I'll be clear. I want to run a 1 x 10 setup with 11-36 rear cassette and 32 single front chain ring. I will be buying all from scratch. I want to run a short cage rear derailleur and notice Shimano only do a medium or long cage. SRAM do a short one. So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur? If so what SPD bits do I need to buy in what make? Will it work?
> 
> Or do Shimano do a short cage rear derailleur in XT/XTR?


The Shimano shifter will not work with the Sram rear derailleur- Shimano makes only an SG (mid) and SGS (long) cage version of the 980 rear derailleur- Good news is the SG or mid cage works well for a 1X10 set up- been running one for about a year now-

Good luck


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## evoracer (Feb 26, 2008)

coursemyhorse said:


> Hi all. First post. I'll be clear. I want to run a 1 x 10 setup with 11-36 rear cassette and 32 single front chain ring. I will be buying all from scratch. I want to run a short cage rear derailleur and notice Shimano only do a medium or long cage. SRAM do a short one. So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur? If so what SPD bits do I need to buy in what make? Will it work?
> 
> Or do Shimano do a short cage rear derailleur in XT/XTR?


Interested to hear the answer on this one.

I ended up going 1x10, all X9, mid-cage. RD appears pretty stretched out 32t w/11-36.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

coursemyhorse said:


> So can I make this work wtih XTR shifters and a SRAM X9 rear short cage derailleur?


The Shimano 10 speed shifter should work provided you pair it with a 9 speed SRAM rear derailleur - but not 10 speed.

i wouldn't worry too much about cage length; the weight difference is negligible. It'd be easier just to use the medium cage Shimano mech & shifters (if you don't like SRAM shifters for some reason), or else just use SRAM for both. No reason to make things complicated for no reason... :nono:


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## coursemyhorse (Nov 30, 2011)

satanas said:


> The Shimano 10 speed shifter should work provided you pair it with a 9 speed SRAM rear derailleur - but not 10 speed.
> 
> i wouldn't worry too much about cage length; the weight difference is negligible. It'd be easier just to use the medium cage Shimano mech & shifters (if you don't like SRAM shifters for some reason), or else just use SRAM for both. No reason to make things complicated for no reason... :nono:


Hi there, reason I want to use XTR shifters is because I didn't think SRAM do anything in the same league for what I want? I basically want multi release and instant release and want the upshifting to be doable with index finger pull, rather than all thumbs which I thought SRAM were?

Also not so much weight difference, was more than I thought a shorter cage aided the ability to run a tighter length chain (shorter chain) which helpded minimize chain slap. Also looks neater and gives more ground clearance so looks a more simple system to run.


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## coursemyhorse (Nov 30, 2011)

knottshore said:


> The Shimano shifter will not work with the Sram rear derailleur- Shimano makes only an SG (mid) and SGS (long) cage version of the 980 rear derailleur- Good news is the SG or mid cage works well for a 1X10 set up- been running one for about a year now-
> 
> Good luck


Thanks for this but as above and earlier in the thread, some people state mixing with 9spd SRAM works hence why I asked for confirmation. Yeah, my mate has been running med cage Shimano with his 1x10 and XTR shifter for a while and loves it.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Ibis have said here: Ripley 29 | Bikes | Ibis Cycles US

"If you want to run a 1X10, we've got great news. In June 2011, Shimano began shipping a new rear derailleur call the XTR Shadow Plus. It uses heavier chain tension plus a friction stabilizer to dampen the cage and thus chain movement (chain slap). It also dramatically reduces derailing of chains. Combined with either an e*thirteen XCX-ST D-Type or an MRP 1X, the Shadow Plus virtually eliminates the need for the lower half of your chain guide, plus makes your bike nearly silent."

If I was trying to achieve what you are I'd just run XTR (since you pefer Shimano shifters) and not muck about with SRAM (in)compatibilities at all. (I am waiting for 10 speed Gripshift myself, but that's another story.)


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## Alpha-Q (Oct 31, 2011)

I currently have a 9 speed slx chain, cogs, shifters and RD.

Is there going to have a problem when I put a dynasis crank and fd with my current setup?


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## coursemyhorse (Nov 30, 2011)

satanas said:


> Ibis have said here:
> 
> "If you want to run a 1X10, we've got great news. In June 2011, Shimano began shipping a new rear derailleur call the XTR Shadow Plus. It uses heavier chain tension plus a friction stabilizer to dampen the cage and thus chain movement (chain slap). It also dramatically reduces derailing of chains. Combined with either an e*thirteen XCX-ST D-Type or an MRP 1X, the Shadow Plus virtually eliminates the need for the lower half of your chain guide, plus makes your bike nearly silent."
> 
> If I was trying to achieve what you are I'd just run XTR (since you pefer Shimano shifters) and not muck about with SRAM (in)compatibilities at all. (I am waiting for 10 speed Gripshift myself, but that's another story.)


Thanks for the info, another problem is that here in UK the m780 Shimano Rear Deraileur is hard to come by in GS (medium) and there are stock problems currently. Maybe to do with Xmas.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ What can I say? Xma$ux!!!


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## BBG29 (Dec 8, 2011)

Looking for some Info! 
I am wanting to run a set of 2012 Sram XO 2x10 Cranks with a Sram XO 9 Speed Redwin rear Derailleur. 
I am currently running a Sram Pg 1050 / 12-36T Cassette, and a Sram X7 2x10 High Mount Front Derailleur. I am also changing the front shifter to a Sram X7 2x10 from a Sram X7 3x10 shifter. 
Can I run these cranks with that derailleur? Can this work, and if so what else might I have to change or do to make this setup work?


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## FaithRaven (Apr 13, 2011)

Could someone please tell me if 9speed FD will work with 10 speed shifter & cranks. All mtb.


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## ryguy135 (Sep 24, 2010)

BBG29 said:


> Looking for some Info!
> I am wanting to run a set of 2012 Sram XO 2x10 Cranks with a Sram XO 9 Speed Redwin rear Derailleur.
> I am currently running a Sram Pg 1050 / 12-36T Cassette, and a Sram X7 2x10 High Mount Front Derailleur. I am also changing the front shifter to a Sram X7 2x10 from a Sram X7 3x10 shifter.
> Can I run these cranks with that derailleur? Can this work, and if so what else might I have to change or do to make this setup work?


Nope. You'll need a 10 speed rear derailleur. SRAM changed the pull ratios slightly so you can't use a 9 speed derailleur with a 10 speed shifter for a 10 speed setup. However, you could use a Shimano 10 speed rear derailleur. Dynays's 10 speed pull ratio does work with SRAM's 9 speed derailleurs for a 10 speed setup.


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## ryguy135 (Sep 24, 2010)

FaithRaven said:


> Could someone please tell me if 9speed FD will work with 10 speed shifter & cranks. All mtb.


Will work just fine.


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## Jeepnut22 (Jul 16, 2008)

Updating cranks & chain only...

Current setup:
2007 XT 3x10 cranks, converted to 24x36 2 ring.
9 Spd FD and shifter
9 Spd RD and shifter
9 Spd 11-34 cassette
9 Spd SRAM 981 chain

Planning stetup:
2011 XT 2x10 cranks, 26x38
Keeping - 9 Spd FD and shifter
Keeping - 9 Spd RD and shifter
Keeping - 9 Spd 11-34 cassette
KMC X9-XL chain

Issues, things to consider? Thanks...


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## Teigansdad (Jul 24, 2010)

The only possible problem you might run into will be if the X9 is indeed a 9 speed chain. You might possibly run into some trouble while in the 26t ring up front. This could range from chain rub and cross chaining to the chain skipping from time to time if the wider diameter chain gets picked up by the shifting ramps. Could try it, and report back or simply go with a 10sp chain which would be my recommendation. I run a 10sp compact and 10sp chain with 9 speed shifters, fd, rd and cassette on my road bike with no problem. If you are looking for reference check out the sheldon brown website. He talks all about chain size


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## Jeepnut22 (Jul 16, 2008)

^^ Sweet, thanks!


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## gadget1 (Jul 12, 2009)

@jeepnut

My understanding is for optimum performance you need a 10 speed front derailleur and front shifter with the 10 speed cranks. this is because the front chainrings on the 10 speed crank are marginally closer together than on the 9 speed cranks. what you are proposing should work, but possibly not be ideal.

and yes, you'd probably want to go with the 10 speed chain.

I recommend the shimano 10 speed chain with a wipperman 10 speed chainlink for easy removal/cleaning duties.


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## gadget1 (Jul 12, 2009)

though according to point 4 on the first post on this thread, you may be able to keep your 9 speed front shifter when using 10 speed front derailleur and crank. But i always thought it best to keep the front the same and the rear the same.

Am i right that the spacing on the front chainrings is different for 9 and 10 speed cranks because the chainrings themseves look interchangable.

Has anyone had any problems when they've tried just swapping the chainrings over from 9 to 10 speed cranks?


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## Jeepnut22 (Jul 16, 2008)

gadget1 said:


> @jeepnut
> 
> My understanding is for optimum performance you need a 10 speed front derailleur and front shifter with the 10 speed cranks. this is because the front chainrings on the 10 speed crank are marginally closer together than on the 9 speed cranks. what you are proposing should work, but possibly not be ideal.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Think I am definitely going to exchange my 9 speed chain for a 10 speed chain. Gonna see how the 9 spd FD and Shifter work out. I'll report back!


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## Teigansdad (Jul 24, 2010)

Jeepnut22 said:


> Thanks! Think I am definitely going to exchange my 9 speed chain for a 10 speed chain. Gonna see how the 9 spd FD and Shifter work out. I'll report back!


I think you're right to give it a go. Especially as you are running a compact up front. I would wager the worst case scenario will be how much you have to trim your inner and outer travel limit. My guess is if there is a compatibility issue it would be more likely to occur with a triple ring set up. For sure worth trying before you drop the change for front der and shifter. From my calculations that's a pair of tubeless ready tires and a bottle of stans.


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## Teigansdad (Jul 24, 2010)

gadget1 said:


> though according to point 4 on the first post on this thread, you may be able to keep your 9 speed front shifter when using 10 speed front derailleur and crank. But i always thought it best to keep the front the same and the rear the same.
> 
> Am i right that the spacing on the front chainrings is different for 9 and 10 speed cranks because the chainrings themseves look interchangable.
> 
> Has anyone had any problems when they've tried just swapping the chainrings over from 9 to 10 speed cranks?


I used 10s rings from blackspire on my slx 9 speed crankset. my setup: xt dynasys shifter, front and back, 9 sp xt front der. 9 s slx crank w/ 10s rings 38t and 24 t, 10s xtr chain, xt 10 s cassette and rear der. Raced all season, shifted flawless. Seemed like just a touch of cross-chaining related rub in the 38t front, 36 t rear gear combo...not enough to affect performance. I do wonder if the 10 s specific crankset would have a little better chain line to avoid this.


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## DarkFly3r (Apr 18, 2011)

Anyone tried 10-speed crankset on a 9-speed drivetrain? Will it work? Thanks.


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## stolegrom (Oct 14, 2009)

Maybe I missed...Is it possible that 10sp front der. works with 9sp chain, crankset is Slx FC-M665 36/22 ? Thank you!


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## Jeepnut22 (Jul 16, 2008)

DarkFly3r said:


> Anyone tried 10-speed crankset on a 9-speed drivetrain? Will it work? Thanks.


That is exactly what I am trying. Installing this week and will know how it works next week sometime. I'll report back!


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## DarkFly3r (Apr 18, 2011)

Jeepnut22 said:


> That is exactly what I am trying. Installing this week and will know how it works next week sometime. I'll report back!


Awesome! Keep me updated.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

cpclydesdale said:


> Not correct, the shimano 10 speed rear road derailleurs have a different parallelogram than the pull ratio for 9 speed mtb. You won't hit all your gears, especially in the middle of the range.


Bzzzzt Wrong !!! But thanks for playing.

Yes the parallelogram is different but the pull ratio is actually identical. The difference between all the eight to 10 speed shimano road and all the 9speed or less shimano mtb derailleurs (with the exception of the 7400 series dura-ace 8speed derailleur) was largely the angle that the parallelogram took as the derailleur shifted over, and how far down it then lowered the top pulley to track under increasing sizes of cogs.

That's why the road derailleurs maxed out at a 28T maximum cog size limit where the mtb models were 34T. And that's a conservative number at that. I've used the Ultegra 10 speed 6600 and 6700 derailleurs with 32T cog cassettes just by tightening the B-tension screw in all the way. The only shimano road rear derailleur that had a different cable pull ratio than any of the mtb models were the 7 and 8 speed Dura-Ace models which had ratios used by DA and nothing else. They weren't even compatible with the other road model groups of the same time period. When DA went to 9speed, they changed the pull geometry to match the other groups but made the rear derailleur ONLY backwards compatible for older DA owners by having a 2-position cable anchor bolt position. That way older DA owners could keep buying new rear derailleurs for as long as their pre-9sp DA shifters lasted, and the rest of the road line was still at the time 8 speed so replacement chain, cassette and chainring options were going to remain plentiful.


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## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi all

I'm thinking of converting to 2 x 9 using my existing XT M770 crankset with 26/38/bash. Currently I have an XTR M970 FD but this won't fit my new frame so I need to buy a new one. 

I could get a M971 high mount 9 speed and limit its travel as described elsewhere. However, somewhere I read that the triple FD needs to be set at the same height on the seat tube as it would be with triple rings, which makes it look very high when the big ring is taken away.

Would a M985 10 speed double work on a 9 speed setup and, if so, would it be a better bet? I gather it will work with the M970 shifter. I haven't bought the rings yet, so could fit 10 speed rings and chain if it would help.

Thanks

I haven't seen much mention of chain line in the thread above, but the M971 is designed for a 50mm chain line. Converting to double rings would effectively reduce the chain line to around 47.5mm. The M985 is designed for 48.8mm. Is 1.3mm within the bounds of adjustment?

I could suck it and see, but it could be an expensive mistake...


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

JezV said:


> Hi all
> I could get a M971 high mount 9 speed and limit its travel as described elsewhere. However, somewhere I read that the triple FD needs to be set at the same height on the seat tube as it would be with triple rings, which makes it look very high when the big ring is taken away.


I don't see why the height should be the same. The height should match the largest ring, but I don't know if the FD will interfere with the bashring. If so, the FD should be placed according to the basher.

I reused my 3spd FD for in my new 2x9 setup. No problems


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## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

NielsJ said:


> I don't see why the height should be the same. The height should match the largest ring, but I don't know if the FD will interfere with the bashring. If so, the FD should be placed according to the basher.
> 
> I reused my 3spd FD for in my new 2x9 setup. No problems


Thanks NielsJ. Good to know


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## coursemyhorse (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks for all the info in this thread everyone. Very helpful.


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## Jeepnut22 (Jul 16, 2008)

Ok, so installation done, and it works great so far.

2x10 speed XT cranks 26x38
10 speed KMC chain
9 speed Front and Rear shifters and deraillures
9 speed cassette, 11-34

I get a little bit of rubbing when cross chaining, but ever so slight. Shifts perfect, but it hasn't gotten dirty yet.


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## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, it looks great whether it works or not! Love the gold chain


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## dassler (Jan 2, 2012)

damn shame about those flouro cables but!!!


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## uraso (Sep 23, 2009)

Hi everyone, please help me here guys or direct me to appropriate forum thread.

I'm a newbie and starting to ride my mountain bike again.I just bought a real nice used bike a year ago. I'm not happy with the crankset and want to replace it without spending a lot of money on a whole new drivetrain. Most of the new cranksets are for 27 or 30 speed, built for 9 or 10 speed cassette. I want to know what crankset can I get that will improve my ride without replacing other components besides the crankset and cassette. I saw on Ebay SHIMANO DEORE XT M770 CRANKSET W/ BB
22/32/44T 9 SPEED and I was wondering would this would work. If so, what cassette should I get with it? Please feel free to give any recommendations. My awesome bike is:

Team Marin issued, 1990's Titanium hardtail
24 speed drive train, XT front and rear derailleurs and shifters
XTR V brakes


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

uraso, looks like you've got a 3x8 drivetrain. If it's still functional (chain and cassette not worn down) then I'd leave it 8-speed. A 770 crankset should fit, just be sure to have BB shell faced, because external bearing cranksets were not widespread in the 90s. You can try installing it with one 2.5 mm spacer less on drive side than the manual says, so as to get back the 47.5 mm chainline that your front derailer probably expects.


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

J. Random Psycho said:


> You can try installing it with* one 2.5 mm spacer less* on drive side than the manual says, so as to get back the 47.5 mm chainline that your front derailer probably expects.


Don't forget to install the spacer on the other side, to maintain the q-factor the crank and BB is designed for.


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## MtnBikinDude (Aug 21, 2010)

*Rr?*

Satanas.. thanks so much! That was exactly the type of info I was looking for. Are you in the Bay Area? I owe you a beer!

Can't wait to get my Mojo HD built up and start the tinkering required to get my new XTR RR derailler (I've hoarded a couple) to work. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

Camus, did you ever get this set up to work? I to would like to go 1x10, but would strongly prefer the rapid rise rear derailer.
Thanks for any info


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## uraso (Sep 23, 2009)

J. Random Psycho said:


> uraso, looks like you've got a 3x8 drivetrain. If it's still functional (chain and cassette not worn down) then I'd leave it 8-speed. A 770 crankset should fit, just be sure to have BB shell faced, because external bearing cranksets were not widespread in the 90s. You can try installing it with one 2.5 mm spacer less on drive side than the manual says, so as to get back the 47.5 mm chainline that your front derailer probably expects.


Thanks, I'm consider the SLX or used XTR 952 now, or new XT 10 speed group

You think I can install all this myself being a complete newbie?


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## uraso (Sep 23, 2009)

NielsJ said:


> Don't forget to install the spacer on the other side, to maintain the q-factor the crank and BB is designed for.


is there an instructional videos or reference I can refer to when install this. Seems to be so technical.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

uraso said:


> Thanks, I'm consider the SLX or used XTR 952 now, or new XT 10 speed group
> 
> You think I can install all this myself being a complete newbie?


95х series of XTR cranks are good, but there's a catch, it's going to be hard to find bottom brackets for those.

For SLX and XT you want your BB shell faced on that frame. Tools to do that are expensive and you only need to do it once per frame. So it's better to go to your favorite LBS. They can also install the crankset for you. Or, if you have good success rate with wrenching on mechanical things, you may choose to install it yourself. You'll need suitable grease (anti-seize compounds work great), good hex wrenches, an external BB cup tool and a preload cap tool for Shimano Hollowtech 2 cranksets (some external BB tools come with that). A torque wrench (or two) is also a nice thing to have.


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## uraso (Sep 23, 2009)

J. Random Psycho said:


> 95х series of XTR cranks are good, but there's a catch, it's going to be hard to find bottom brackets for those.
> 
> For SLX and XT you want your BB shell faced on that frame. Tools to do that are expensive and you only need to do it once per frame. So it's better to go to your favorite LBS. They can also install the crankset for you. Or, if you have good success rate with wrenching on mechanical things, you may choose to install it yourself. You'll need suitable grease (anti-seize compounds work great), good hex wrenches, an external BB cup tool and a preload cap tool for Shimano Hollowtech 2 cranksets (some external BB tools come with that). A torque wrench (or two) is also a nice thing to have.


Thanks, in order words, go to LBS.:thumbsup:

I just wanted to learn, but i guess it's too much of an obstacle.


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## camus (Apr 21, 2004)

MtnBikinDude said:


> Satanas.. thanks so much! That was exactly the type of info I was looking for. Are you in the Bay Area? I owe you a beer!
> 
> Can't wait to get my Mojo HD built up and start the tinkering required to get my new XTR RR derailler (I've hoarded a couple) to work. :thumbsup:





> Camus, did you ever get this set up to work? I to would like to go 1x10, but would strongly prefer the rapid rise rear derailer.
> Thanks for any info


No, no no. I was not able to get this to work. I love Rapid Rise almost as much as I love my own dick. I ordered the pulley recommended one this forum. I tinkered with it for days. I went through three derailleur cables. And, not to brag, but after 25 years working on bikes, motos, and cars, I am no slouch in the shop.

Couldn't get it to work - almost but not quite. It would shift through the first 4 small cogs just fine then skip over a the large ones. Coming back from the large cogs it would shift just fine then skip over the middle cogs. It was aggravating, I tell you!

Then I took it to the bike shop and told them, "make it work, I don't care how much it cost"

They could not get it working. The ratio of the cable pull was wrong. It would almost work but then skip across two of the biggest cogs with one shift.:madman:

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THIS. Especially if you have a Mojo HD, the last generation XTR RR der, and 2011 10-speed shifters. It. Will. Not. Work.

I hope this saves someone the time and frustration that I went through. F Shimano!

I've put 20+ rides on a normal XT derailleur and it sucks. RR is so much better.:skep:

And F-ing 10 cogs? WTF? Completely unneeded. More marketing BS from the components manufacturers. A$$holes!


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## ejayt (Feb 2, 2012)

*bar end shifters*

Hey, spent a heap of time reading through all the pages on this thread however I'm not 100% sure before I make a purchase. I'm building a touring bike and didn't do my research on Dynasys and have fallen into a trap where I have bought 10 speed dura-ace bar shifters SL-BS79 to go with a SLX-660 10 speed Shimano groupset. Considering the bar end shifters are designed for road, does this...:



> 2. Nine speed rear derailleurs will not work with 10 speed mountain rear shifters. They will however work with road "flat bar" 10 speed rear shifters. Dyna speed shifters pull twice as much cable per shift as 9 speed shifters, so if you use a 9 speed derailleur it shifts two gears for every one push.


...mean that I can buy a 9 speed XT rear derailleur like the M771 and it will work with my shifters? My cassette is 11-36T 10 speed..


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Yes, any Shimano 9 speed derailleur will work with Shimano road shifters with the appropriate number of speeds to match the cassette used (pre-1997 Dura-Ace 740x excepted). Some people have said that non-Shadow derailleurs may not clear 36T cogs on some frames, so you may be better off with either a Shadow mech or with a <36T cassette.


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## ejayt (Feb 2, 2012)

satanas said:


> Yes, any Shimano 9 speed derailleur will work with Shimano road shifters with the appropriate number of speeds to match the cassette used (pre-1997 Dura-Ace 740x excepted). Some people have said that non-Shadow derailleurs may not clear 36T cogs on some frames, so you may be better off with either a Shadow mech or with a <36T cassette.


hey! thanks for the quick reply, very helpful as I want to get this build over and done with and it's the last thing that needs assistance. Interesting note on the shadow, I have read some comments that they don't last as long as the standard rear mech. Do you have any references to it? I can't seem to bring anything up on google


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Sorry, I've not used or worked on the Shadow mechs myself, just reporting what others said here at mtbr re clearing 36T cogs; cannot say anything re durability or anything else, but the comment on 36T cogs stuck in my head. It seemed to be the only good reason to use one to me, but I prefer closer ratios and am hoping to stick with 34T or less anyway. Good luck.


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## ejayt (Feb 2, 2012)

ah.. awesome, i've made an order for a shadow then. thanks for your help =)


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

can different brands (same speeds range though) of chains and cassettes be mixed together? I've always used Sram 9sp cassettes with Shimano chains as they are cheaper, can this be done with 10sp??


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## GiantRev2 (Feb 5, 2012)

Should work
:thumbsup:


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

*new 10 speed crank with 9 speed group?*

This thread has been a wealth of knowledge but I haven't quite found a definitive answer to my situation.

I have all 9-speed XT on my bike, in a 2x9 configuration. I'd like to replace the cranks with a new XT M785 2x10 crankset, but of course Shimano says it's incompatible. What about this setup wont work?


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## Hedge72 (Mar 31, 2006)

creyc said:


> This thread has been a wealth of knowledge but I haven't quite found a definitive answer to my situation.
> 
> I have all 9-speed XT on my bike, in a 2x9 configuration. I'd like to replace the cranks with a new XT M785 2x10 crankset, but of course Shimano says it's incompatible. What about this setup wont work?


Just to throw my experience your way, I did something fairly similar last year. I had a 9spd drivetrain with Race Face cranks. I swapped out my RF cranks with a new XTR M985 double, a 10spd chain, and a 2x10 front derailleur. Shifters, cassette and rear derailleur remained 9spd with no issues :thumbsup:

Hope that helps.


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

creyc said:


> I have all 9-speed XT on my bike, in a 2x9 configuration. I'd like to replace the cranks with a new XT M785 2x10 crankset, but of course Shimano says it's incompatible. What about this setup wont work?


Nothing, I guess, but I have no idea. I've been running SRAM X9 (2x10) crank set for a while without any problems. The rest is 3x9. Even the chain is 9spd.
Soon I'll be putting on a 2x10 FD. I don't know if it requires a new 10spd chain, but I doubt it.
Go for it!

(PS. The black pedal arms look sweet when new, but the scratch up real easily :incazzato: )


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

Thanks for the input guys. Yea I've seen a few people running 10 speed cranks with their 9 speed systems but only after also switching to a 10 speed chain. (jeepnut22 on this page for example) 

Is there a reason for this or could I stick with my fairly new 9 speed chain? I guess I don't get what makes this crank "incompatible" with 9-speed as shimano says, is it the chainring spacing on the spiders? The gear size? The width of the teeth?


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## ejayt (Feb 2, 2012)

awesome! just attached the XT 9 speed M772 with my set of Dura-Ace 10 speed bar end shifters and 10 speed casette and it shifts perfectly! amazing!

thanks for the help guys it cured my headache


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

ejayt said:


> awesome! just attached the XT 9 speed M772 with my set of Dura-Ace 10 speed bar end shifters and 10 speed casette and it shifts perfectly! amazing!
> 
> thanks for the help guys it cured my headache


Do you have the model number of the shifters you used (not sure if you already had the SL-BS79 shifters or were just looking at them) and are you running the shifters in index or friction mode? I am currently trying to set up a drive train for a CX bike I am building and would love to run an 11-36 rear cassette with the same RD you are running and put the bar end shifters on some RetroShift brake levers along with a road-triple FD and 22-32-44 9-speed front crank. Also, do the front and rear shifters move the same direction to shift to a higher or lower gear? I ran into opposite shifting with the barcons on my road bike (front went full down for lowest chainring, rear went full up for largest cog). Ended up having to swap in a rapid-rise RD to reverse the shifter direction.

Thanks.


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## ejayt (Feb 2, 2012)

4Crawler said:


> Do you have the model number of the shifters you used (not sure if you already had the SL-BS79 shifters or were just looking at them) and are you running the shifters in index or friction mode? I am currently trying to set up a drive train for a CX bike I am building and would love to run an 11-36 rear cassette with the same RD you are running and put the bar end shifters on some RetroShift brake levers along with a road-triple FD and 22-32-44 9-speed front crank. Also, do the front and rear shifters move the same direction to shift to a higher or lower gear? I ran into opposite shifting with the barcons on my road bike (front went full down for lowest chainring, rear went full up for largest cog). Ended up having to swap in a rapid-rise RD to reverse the shifter direction.
> 
> Thanks.


Yeh I'm using the SL-BS79s and they only work in index mode, they removed the friction mode and I didn't see that when I bought them but they seem built very well so I'm not expecting them to break on my tour. The 78s I believe still have an index mode.

I've never used bar end shifters before but the front derailleur shifts to the big ring when it is pulled up (which I'm not liking at the moment because I bump it sometimes and the chain doesn't sit well) and on the 79's there's not index for 2 out of 3 gears, just the middle gear. The rear shifts to the small ring when pushed down so it sounds exactly what issue you ran into before - but I'm not sure if there's a rapid-rise in the shadow model as the standard XT won't go up to 36 teeth.

Shifting works great though, I have no troubles and I'm sure I'll be out of the big ring up front when I started loading my bike up for my tour


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks for the clarification and pointer on the BS78s, scored a set of used 78's off of eBay. Having the friction mode would be a nice fall back. With the RetroShift setup, having the opposite shifting might not be a big deal:










But I'll have to think about that and if needed, use a Rapid Rise RD. Actually the RR is nice because you get better shifting into larger cogs.

I found on my road bike that I could not get used to the opposite shifters..When I would come up to a steep climb, I would push the front shifter down to get the smallest chain ring and then I kept pushing down the rear shifter and that put it into the smallest cog instead of the biggest one. Then I needed to try and shift back to the large cog while in the middle of the climbl. That and the fact that I found I hit the rear shifter when it was sticking out (in the big cog) with my knee if I stood up to climb a steeper pitch on the hill. Now with the RR rear, both shifters are down (and out of the way) when climbing.

But since I am planning to put the shifters on the brake levers, no chance of hitting them with the keens any more. Just need to figure out if having both levers facing inward for say lowest gear or having both levers facing to the right for lowest gear is better. I'm leaning towards having the opposite throw since that way pushing say with the thumb on both hands shifts to say a higher gear and pushing with a finger goes to a lower gear. That is how I have my touring bike set up with friction mode bar-top thumb shifters and it seems quite natural. I think for that I'll need the Rapid Rise RD.


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## CTB (Feb 2, 2008)

I've gone through a lot of this thread and have gotten confused by all the iterations that have been suggested. :madman: Mine is (I think) simple:

Bike is 100% 9-speed right now. I want a new crankset: I can get a better deal on a 3x10 crankset than on the same model's 3x9 version. Changing nothing, can I expect this to work? Thanks for anyone who knows this answer, and apologies if I missed this somewhere in the 14 pages of the thread.
:thumbsup:


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

CTB said:


> I've gone through a lot of this thread and have gotten confused by all the iterations that have been suggested. :madman: Mine is (I think) simple:
> 
> Bike is 100% 9-speed right now. I want a new crankset: I can get a better deal on a 3x10 crankset than on the same model's 3x9 version. Changing nothing, can I expect this to work? Thanks for anyone who knows this answer, and apologies if I missed this somewhere in the 14 pages of the thread.
> :thumbsup:


Here's my understanding, since I asked almost the same question but with a double crank not a triple crank. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

The new 10 speed uses a closer chainring spacing up front, so you'll never get perfect alignment using 9-speed derail and shifter with 10-speed crank. A double ring setup can get around this through use of the limiter screws, since there's only two gear positions.

I don't quite understand what Shimano changed, but you'll need to get either a new front derail or a new front shifter, hopefully someone else can chime in on this. You may also need a new narrower 10 speed, too.


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## CTB (Feb 2, 2008)

Thanks very much. I'll avoid the 10-speed cranks now that I know this.


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## GiantRev2 (Feb 5, 2012)

I just had this same thing happen to me a few weeks ago. Only it was a nine speed crankset and my bike was 100% 7speed. I had my lbs install it and it works great. They took out a few chain links but i was even able to use my 7speed chain.


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## GiantRev2 (Feb 5, 2012)

I had some guys on here tell me the 9 speed raceface crank i ordered would not work with my bike unless i did a full blown ninespeed conversion. Well they said it wouldent line up, it would shift wrong or slower and i would need a new chain. So i took my bike and the new crankset into the professionals, they did some measurements and told me to pick it up tommarow. Took it for a test ride around the parking lot and it was better than it was before. Not to mention a lot lighter. Youll be alright.


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

creyc said:


> *The new 10 speed uses a closer chainring spacing up front*, so you'll never get perfect alignment using 9-speed derail and shifter with 10-speed crank. A double ring setup can get around this through use of the limiter screws, since there's only two gear positions.


So the index should be different? Do you have that on text/numbers somewhere?
So far my 9spd trigger and FD has been running fine on 10spd crank.


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

NielsJ said:


> So the index should be different? Do you have that on text/numbers somewhere?
> So far my 9spd trigger and FD has been running fine on 10spd crank.


Well that's how it sounds, according to this post on the first page:



ljsmith said:


> From what I understand the front 10 speed shifter is identical to the 9 speed shifter. The difference is in the geometry of the front derailleur. The 10 speed front derailleur moves slightly less per shift due to the 10 speed crankset using thinner rings with closer spacing. You can interchange the front derailleurs, but they will be very difficult to adjust. A 9 speed front derailleur on a 10 speed crankset will slightly overshift each ring. A 10 speed front derailleur on a 9 speed crankset will slightly undershift each ring. What is interesting is that the right 10 speed shifter body looks totally different than the left. It is huge, and the lever looks totally different than the left.
> 
> The Bottom line: match the derailleur to the crankset. If it is a 9 speed crankset, use a 9 speed front derailleur. If it is a 10 speed crankset use a 10 speed front derailleur.


It's interesting your 9 speed shifter and derailleur are working alright however, and just to confirm it's a triple ring correct?


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

creyc said:


> It's interesting your 9 speed shifter and derailleur are working alright however, and just to confirm it's a triple ring correct?


Nope. I have a 2x10 X9 crank and a 3x9 Deore FD and trigger. Limit screws adjusted accordingly.

I do have an X9 2x10 FD ready for installment, but will it require a 10spd trigger as well? My guess is NO. At least, that's how it's gonna be to begin with.

Is the amount of cable being pulled for 9 vs 10 speed different for the FD triggers, or is the parallelogram different for the front derailleurs? (is it is for the RD's)


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

Well that explains it, it's a double ring setup.

This being the exception I mentioned, by using the limiter screws to manually prevent the FD from "overshooting" the narrower 10-speed chainring spacing, where the index position would normally take it.

This works on a double ring setup, where there's only two positions to worry about. Your cable tension sets the big gear position correctly, and the limit screw sets the small gear position. But with a third gear between those two, now you can really only get 2 of the 3 dialed in, if that.

Supposedly from multiple posts in this thread, 9 speed and 10 speed front shifters are the SAME, and you only need to match your front derail to your crank.

Good luck, and if anyone knows this to be incorrect, please say so,


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

Question on the 10 speed Shimano chains. Is there much of a difference from say the HG-54 to the SLX HG-74 to the XTR HG-94 to the XTR M980 chains? Seems to be about a 2X range in price and about 17 grams in weight across the range. Is there any difference in shifting between those chains and how about life time, like to the more expensive ones last a longer or shorter time than the lower cost ones?


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

I apologize if this question has been covered. I tried to skim this thread to find an answer but was unsuccessful. 

I need to find a direct mount front derailleur for a bike with a full XT 9 speed drive train. I'm using only the 22/32T rings. The bike is a Banshee Paradox with short chain stays and the tail of my XT 771 derailleur is perilously close to the tire. The 10 speed two ring derailleurs like the XT FD-M786-D have much shorter cages. 

The question therefore is: Can I succesfully use the 10 speed front derailleur with my 9 speed cranks, chain and shifter? Maybe someone has had experience with this combination.


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## Carnazachile (Oct 28, 2007)

...


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## Carnazachile (Oct 28, 2007)

Good to know I'm not the only one with 2/10 3/9 compatibility issues


I have a 3/9 setup in my enduro, but I'm thinking to buy a 2/10 set of shifters (xx) and a 10sp RD (x0). I'll also buy the 10sp cassette and chain....

But I have doubts on the crankset.... I have a 3 ring setup (22/32/44) but I want to get rid of the 44t ring and put a bash instead, and use a 36-38 middle ring. 

Can I use the 2/10 front shifter with my 2 ring setup??
Will I have to change the FD from a 9sp to a 10sp??
Or I'll have to change the cranks and FD??

Thanks.....

PS: I know the 3 rings cranks use a 104 bolt pattern and the 2/10 ones seems to use a different one.... Is possible to find bash guards with the 2/10 bolt pattern ??


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

ejayt said:


> Yeh I'm using the SL-BS79s and they only work in index mode, they removed the friction mode and I didn't see that when I bought them but they seem built very well so I'm not expecting them to break on my tour. The 78s I believe still have an index mode.


I can confirm that the SL-BS78s have both friction and index mode, at least on the rear shifter. Front is friction only. Picked up a used set off of eBay, just waiting on the RetroShift brake levers to mount them on. Oh and a handlebar to put the levers on and the rest of the bike to put the handlebar on 

Did get the R/S brake levers today and the SL-BS78s fit on them perfectly, just had to order one extra thin washer to replace the fat one on the rear shifter.


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## jdb10810 (May 5, 2011)

OK so just to be 100% clear on this:

Point 3.

I cannot fit a 10 speed SLX rear derailleur on a 9 speed cassette with 9 speed XT shifters?


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## tic tac (Dec 30, 2006)

Can a slx dyna sys 36-22 be used with 10 speed cassette?

currently running xo ten speed shifter and derailleur, x9 ten speed front xtr 40-26 175 crankset and shimano 10 speed cassette.
Sorry


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

jdb10810 said:


> I cannot fit a 10 speed SLX rear derailleur on a 9 speed cassette with 9 speed XT shifters.


Correct. Definitely will not work without divine intervention. :nono:


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## HeartbreakKid (Mar 7, 2012)

Hi Guys, I am new in this thread. Would like ask some questions. Apologies if this has been answered before. Thanks is advance.

My current bike set up

Rear Derailleur: Shimano Deore RD-M592, 27 Speed

Front Derailleur: Shimano Alivio FD-M430, 34.9mm

Shifters: Shimano Alivio SL-M430, R-fire plus 2 

Crankset: Shimano FC-M430-8, silver, 44Ax32x22 T 

Will it work if i were to replace it with

10 speed Deore Shifter
10 speed FD
10 speed crankset

Please advice. Thanks Guys


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ This will not work. :madman:

*To repeat (again) Shimano 9 and 10 speed MTB rear derailleurs and shifters cannot be mixed in any combination!!! *

Both must be either 9 speed, or 10 speed, with the matching cassette and chain. 10 speed Shimano MTB stuff is generally compatible only with itself, although IIRC some have said that SRAM pre-10 speed derailleurs and shifters have compatible cable travel, ie, you can (in theory) use a 9 speed SRAM rear mech in a 10 speed drivetrain with Shimano 10 speed shifters, or a Shimano 10 speed mech in a 9 speed drivetrain with SRAM 9 speed shifters (though not their Shimano compatible Gripshifts).

If you want to switch to 10 speed you will need (at least) a 10 speed rear shifter, rear derailleur, cassette and chain. Things might work better if you have matching 10 speed chainrings (or crankset), plus front derailleur, but it's quite possible the 9 speed parts will work okay.

NB: Shimano 10 speed *road* rear shifters (i.e., barcons) will work when used with a Shimano 9 speed MTB rear mech as most Shimano rear derailleurs (other than 10 speed MTB and pre-1997 Dura-Ace) have compatible cable travel.

It would be more sensible if people asking questions state what shifters, front and rear derailleurs, crankset, chain and cassette they have at present and what they are hoping to achieve by changing things rather than just asking, "Will combination x work?" :thumbsup:


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

*What's wrong?*

I'm building a 2008 Enduro with all new 10 speed drivetrain, except the crankset which is a Truvativ Hussfelt 24/36/bash. My shifters, rear der, cassette are SLX and I have a new XT chain, all 10 speed. FD is a Deore LX. Chain won't shift from granny to middle. What's wrong with my setup?

Thanks.


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## cort (Mar 29, 2004)

69tr6r said:


> I'm building a 2008 Enduro with all new 10 speed drivetrain, except the crankset which is a Truvativ Hussfelt 24/36/bash. My shifters, rear der, cassette are SLX and I have a new XT chain, all 10 speed. FD is a Deore LX. Chain won't shift from granny to middle. What's wrong with my setup?
> 
> Thanks.


Everything above is compatable with one another....

Re-check that your L limit screw is set at the correct position. Once properly adjusted, fine tune your FD's tension via shifter's barrell adj


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Make sure FD is low enough; it shouldn't clear the 36T ring by more than 3mm at most. If it would foul the chainstay when mounted low enough you may be better off with a more compact FD, such as the 9 speed SLX double (intended for 36x22T) or perhaps a road FD. Shifting between tworings should be an easy job for any halfway reasonable FD though, so it may well be setup.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks for the help. I actually had to raise the FD to it's max height on the direct mount tab. Didn't seem to make sense to go higher, but that's what worked. Shifting fine on the stand now.


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## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

So if i have a 9x3sp crankset and a 10sp shifter, i'll need a 9x3sp FD correct ?


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## Bech (Mar 11, 2012)

Some who know how 9SP SLX shifters works with 10SP XT derailleurs?

And how can i se what sp my skifters are?


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## Bech (Mar 11, 2012)

Bech said:


> Some who know how 9SP SLX shifters works with 10SP XT derailleurs?
> 
> And how can i se what sp my skifters are?


I just had to read more carefull, here is my answer.



satanas said:


> ^ This will not work. :madman:
> 
> *To repeat (again) Shimano 9 and 10 speed MTB rear derailleurs and shifters cannot be mixed in any combination!!! *
> 
> ...


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## zuku (Oct 22, 2007)

I have a question, I'm going to buy new XTR Dynasys drive (shifters, crank, chain, cassette, rear derailleur) for my bike, but need to install as front derailleur Sram XX High Clamp Top Pull - will this combination work?


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## jeti (Mar 14, 2012)

*10 speed FD with 9 speed everything else*

Hi,

Will a 10 speed front dérailleur fit in my 2X9 SLX drivetrain?

Explanation:
SLX 9 speed FD direct mount is to high. I saw that SLX 10 speed FD would probably fit height wise, since it has more up-down adjustability.

And BTW has anybody had problems with height of direct mount FD?
I have Trek Scratch 9 frame.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

So cranks are basically all the same, you just have to buy speed specific rings? 
I have an slx (9spd) that I'm going to use for a 1x10. Buying 10 speed everything and using the slx crank with it.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

jeti said:


> Hi,
> 
> Will a 10 speed front dérailleur fit in my 2X9 SLX drivetrain?
> 
> ...


I've currently got a 10 speed XT direct mount with a 9 speed XT crankset set up with only two rings, 22/32T and bash-ring. It works fine with some reservation. The 10 speed cage is obviously narrower than a 9 speed. I've got the high and low limits set to prevent the chain dropping off the rings. When riding on the 32T ring there is slight contact of the derailleur in the bottom two, three cogs. I could keep it as it is and use the first half of the cassette on the 22T ring but I like using all nine cogs on my 32T ring and it bugs me. I'm going to replace the derailleur with a SLX M661 9 speed direct mount.

As to your problem with height, the mount should be a standard height and the height adjustment seems to be the same on all derailleurs. You say you are using a SLX 2 X 9 so I'm assuming you mean a 22/36 crankset. The derailleurs are designed to shift onto larger rings so it appears that the cage is high but they still shift onto and of the granny ring.


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## jeti (Mar 14, 2012)

Ronnie said:


> I've currently got a 10 speed XT direct mount with a 9 speed XT crankset set up with only two rings, 22/32T and bash-ring. It works fine with some reservation. The 10 speed cage is obviously narrower than a 9 speed. I've got the high and low limits set to prevent the chain dropping off the rings. When riding on the 32T ring there is slight contact of the derailleur in the bottom two, three cogs. I could keep it as it is and use the first half of the cassette on the 22T ring but I like using all nine cogs on my 32T ring and it bugs me. I'm going to replace the derailleur with a SLX M661 9 speed direct mount.
> 
> As to your problem with height, the mount should be a standard height and the height adjustment seems to be the same on all derailleurs. You say you are using a SLX 2 X 9 so I'm assuming you mean a 22/36 crankset. The derailleurs are designed to shift onto larger rings so it appears that the cage is high but they still shift onto and of the granny ring.


OK, so 10 speed FD won't be perfect...
I do have 36/22 crank and I also thought that direct mount has a standard height.
Obviously I was sure that 9 speed FD-661-D would fit, but is to high for a whole 1cm and when in granny ring the chain rubs the bottom of the FD.

But if you compare it with 10 speed FD-661-10D you'll notice that last one has larger hole for the mounting screw and therefore I assume it can be mounted lower.


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## ACDC (Apr 6, 2008)

Today on my 2008 Anthem I replaced my XT M770 9 speed triple front mech with a XT M785 10 speed double mech, my current set up is:

XT 3x9 cranks with 26/38 
9 speed dura ace chain
XT 9 speed 11-34 cassette
XT 9 speed shadow rear mech
XTR 9 speed shifters

Works perfect, I can now use the the full range of gears with no chain rub in any gear and shifts fantastic also looks better fitted than the tripple 9 speed mech, very happy.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

jeti said:


> OK, so 10 speed FD won't be perfect...
> I do have 36/22 crank and I also thought that direct mount has a standard height.
> Obviously I was sure that 9 speed FD-661-D would fit, but is to high for a whole 1cm and when in granny ring the chain rubs the bottom of the FD.
> 
> But if you compare it with 10 speed FD-661-10D you'll notice that last one has larger hole for the mounting screw and therefore I assume it can be mounted lower.


You are right I have a XT M771 9 speed direct mount and the slot is shorter than on the ten speed but it works perfectly. The reason I tried the ten speed is because the M771 has a very long cage and is very close to my tire in the granny gear. I'm going to try the nine speed SLX because it has a shorter cage. When you say, "....in granny ring the chain rubs the bottom of the FD.", is that with smaller cogs selected on the cassette? If you are on the granny ring and on the top half of the cassette (lower gears), does it touch? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. You should not be cross chaining from the 22T to the smallest cassette cogs.


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## jeti (Mar 14, 2012)

Ronnie said:


> You are right I have a XT M771 9 speed direct mount and the slot is shorter than on the ten speed but it works perfectly. The reason I tried the ten speed is because the M771 has a very long cage and is very close to my tire in the granny gear. I'm going to try the nine speed SLX because it has a shorter cage. When you say, "....in granny ring the chain rubs the bottom of the FD.", is that with smaller cogs selected on the cassette? If you are on the granny ring and on the top half of the cassette (lower gears), does it touch? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. You should not be cross chaining from the 22T to the smallest cassette cogs.


Hi, when in granny ring the chain is high enough only on two largest cogs.
Hoped that maybe 9 speed XT would fit, but from what you said I assume it's very similar to SLX. 
I also asked my local Trek dealer, but I guess he'll say that it's compatible only with 10 speed FD.
So I'll have to go with 10 speed FD. Or maybe I'll drill another hole into the frame


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

jeti said:


> Hi, when in granny ring the chain is high enough only on two largest cogs.
> Hoped that maybe 9 speed XT would fit, but from what you said I assume it's very similar to SLX.
> I also asked my local Trek dealer, but I guess he'll say that it's compatible only with 10 speed FD.
> So I'll have to go with 10 speed FD. Or maybe I'll drill another hole into the frame


The XT M771-D front derailleur seems to have a much longer/lower cage than the SLX. It works perfectly with my 22/32T setup and the chain does not touch the bottom of the cage at all. The reason it doesn't work for me is that it was on a Banshee Paradox which is a 29" bike with chain stays less than 17". There is very little space. The cage is long and is a few millimeters from the rear tire when on the granny ring. If you have more space on a 26" bike the XT should be fine.


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## neninja (Jul 11, 2010)

*Will this work?*

Here is my current set up -
9 speed XT M770 Chainset
9 speed XT shadow rear
9 speed XT front mech
9 speed XTR shifters
9 speed XT 11-32 cassette
9 speed KMC X9L chain

I need to replace my front chainrings, chain and cassette as they are knackered. I have got hold of some pretty much new 10 speed XT M770 chainrings 42/32/24.

The 10 speed rings appear to fit to my 9 speed cranks. Can I replace the rings on my 9 speed cranks with the 10 speed ones and still keep all the 9 speed stuff the same?

Is the spacing difference on 10sp chainrings on the cranks or the rings?


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## ACDC (Apr 6, 2008)

ACDC said:


> Today on my 2008 Anthem I replaced my XT M770 9 speed triple front mech with a XT M785 10 speed double mech, my current set up is:
> 
> XT 3x9 cranks with 26/38
> 9 speed dura ace chain
> ...


Just for info, I today I had to raise the front mech about 5mm above its intended position as the clamp would have slightly come into contact with the lower linkage on the suspension (only during full compression of the shock). Also I was initially using positions 1-2 on the XTR shifter and found that the cable become very slack when on the small ring. I guess the geometry of the 10 speed mech requires less cable to move it horizontally

I measured the cable pull and it was 11mm for 1-2 and 8mm for 2-3, so I switched to using 2-3 on the shifter for my 2x9 setup and it works perfect, no chain rub, crisp quiet gear changes every time. :thumbsup:


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

ACDC said:


> Just for info, I today I had to raise the front mech about 5mm above its intended position as the clamp would have slightly come into contact with the lower linkage on the suspension (only during full compression of the shock). Also I was initially using positions 1-2 on the XTR shifter and found that the cable become very slack when on the small ring. I guess the geometry of the 10 speed mech requires less cable to move it horizontally
> 
> I measured the cable pull and it was 11mm for 1-2 and 8mm for 2-3, so I switched to using 2-3 on the shifter for my 2x9 setup and it works perfect, no chain rub, crisp quiet gear changes every time. :thumbsup:


I have got my 10speed direct mount just about perfect on my 9 speed M770 cranks. The chain barely touches the cage in the 32/34T combination and is quite acceptable. It sounds like you have a conventional clamp mounted derailleur which provides a bit more adjustment in that you can rotate the clamp. The direct mount doesn't have that option.

What I don't agree with you on is using the 2-3 positions for shifting. How do you prevent accidentally dropping into the first (lowest) position and not realizing? Then when you want to make that critical shift,  you find that you are only taking up cable. With the 1-2 position, I can limit the derailleur from going into 3 with the "H" limit screw.


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## ACDC (Apr 6, 2008)

Ronnie said:


> What I don't agree with you on is using the 2-3 positions for shifting. How do you prevent accidentally dropping into the first (lowest) position and not realizing? Then when you want to make that critical shift,  you find that you are only taking up cable. With the 1-2 position, I can limit the derailleur from going into 3 with the "H" limit screw.


I don't think that will be too much of a problem, there are only two gears to shift between after all.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

ACDC said:


> I don't think that will be too much of a problem, there are only two gears to shift between after all.


Yes, and that is how I want it to work.


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## ACDC (Apr 6, 2008)

The problem I found when shifting 1-2 was that there was a lot of lever throw whilst the shifter was taking up the all the slack, now when using 2-3 on the shifter to move into the big ring I only need a small amount of pressure and there is far less travel because of this the gear change is very fast and smooth and requires a lot less hand movement. I know the xtr M980 LH shfter has a mode switch to change from x3 to x2 which when doing so limits the shifter to use only 2-3.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

ACDC said:


> The problem I found when shifting 1-2 was that there was a lot of lever throw whilst the shifter was taking up the all the slack, now when using 2-3 on the shifter to move into the big ring I only need a small amount of pressure and there is far less travel because of this the gear change is very fast and smooth and requires a lot less hand movement. I know the xtr M980 LH shfter has a mode switch to change from x3 to x2 which when doing so limits the shifter to use only 2-3.


I've never really noticed but I'll give it a try. I've got XTR 970 shifters so it's a moot point. In any case, aren't XTR 980 ten speed?


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## ACDC (Apr 6, 2008)

Yep you are right the M980 shifters are 10 speed but for a front mech I don't think it would make that much difference as long as it pulls a similar amount of cable as a LH M970.


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## Stevoo (Mar 9, 2007)

So, just installed an M985 XTR Dyna-Sys 10-speed rear derailleur mated to a SRAM X9 9-speed trigger shifter.

Right out of the box this combo is close but not perfect. The travel of the derailleur does not match the cable pull of the shifter as it should. You can clearly see how it becomes progressively more off as it reaches the end of travel accross the cogs. It can be adjusted to just barely work. Certainly not perfect as you have to make some comproimises. Used in this manner it is very critical of adjustment. Get it just a tad off and life is not so good but it does work.

It is so close that you CAN get it to work better with some minor changes.

The problem is that the derailleur does not draw out enough cable during it's travel. It actually travels too much when all is said and done for this combo. I had to reduce the derailleur travel for a given amount of cable pull.

So, I machined a derailleur anchor extension to change the cable pull related to the derailleur movement. In testing I tried anchoring the cable on the far side of the bolt (too much change). Then I began spacing the cable anchor point away in small increments. I also played with the exit location around the anchor bolt. Viola! After some playing around and experimentation I arrived upon the magic location and proceeded to machine an anchor bolt extension.

The 10-speed XTR jockey wheel has a very small amount of float compared to the 9-speed XTR. I can swap them later on to see how that affects things if need be but for now it is good. My guess is that it will make it just that much better and more robust in terms of adjustment requirements.

So far very happy with this slightly modified combo.

Of course this is just my experience. Your results may vary.


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## knottshore (Jan 23, 2008)

Stevoo said:


> So, just installed an M985 XTR Dyna-Sys 10-speed rear derailleur mated to a SRAM X9 9-speed trigger shifter.
> 
> Right out of the box this combo is close but not perfect. The travel of the derailleur does not match the cable pull of the shifter as it should. You can clearly see how it becomes progressively more off as it reaches the end of travel accross the cogs. It can be adjusted to just barely work. Certainly not perfect as you have to make some comproimises. Used in this manner it is very critical of adjustment. Get it just a tad off and life is not so good but it does work.
> 
> ...


Soo..... things that make you go mmmm...

Why not just match the shifter with the rd? Not judging but curious.... lots of work to get what sounds like subpar performance?


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## Stevoo (Mar 9, 2007)

Kind of a long story but I broke my older 9-speed XTR and I found SRAM X9 at a deal. Had ridden the Dyna-sys 10 and liked it, also heard a lot about the 1:1 SRAM stuff. Shimano does not make Dyna-Sys in 9-speed that I am aware of (I may be wrong). Wanted to stay 9-speed so I went for the full SRAM X9 9-speed. It was great except the rear derailleur. For me it was sub par in a number of ways. Heard 10-speed Shimano Dyna-Sys would work with the SRAM triggers. I really ended up liking the 1:1 cable pull deal. Found a deal on a 10-speed Shimano rear derailluer so figure why not see what I can do with it. Best of both worlds for my needs.

I am kind of a tinkerer as well so it also has some entertainment value there as well.

I really ended up liking the SRAM triggers as much as I like Shimano derailluers so when I read this thread indicating I could have my cake and eat it too I figured why not give it a try.

Last but not least the performance is actually better than stock SRAM so I would not say it is sub par. I am sorry if I may have given that impression. I have pretty high standards for drivetrain performance and I struggle with things I know can be better.

I may have also missed that Shimano possibly makes Dyna-Sys in 9-speed but I am unaware if they do.


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

hey there. sorry if this question I'm about to ask someone already posted, there's just zillions of posts and didn't get thru all of them...

I basically want to get XTR 980 38-26t crankset. it's ten-speeder, of course, and I would just replace the old 9 speed crankset with it. everything else is 9 speed set-up.

I read around the net that it'll work great, even better than the 9 speed crankset and that I don't have to change anything..
anyone else done that? would be really cool if you did to share the experience with that kind of set-up.

also - I read that 38-26t version is the only version that has cranks made the way it can hold a bash guard. I really hope that is the case as I need to have a bash.

once again, sorry if somebody else made the same post before...
thanx!


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

Stevoo said:


> So, just installed an M985 XTR Dyna-Sys 10-speed rear derailleur mated to a SRAM X9 9-speed trigger shifter.
> So far very happy with this slightly modified combo.
> 
> Of course this is just my experience. Your results may vary.


Pictures!


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## Goose127 (Feb 9, 2004)

Hi. Read through a lot of this and not sure I can find a answer. I am looking to use the following. Shimano xtr 10 speed shifters, front and rear. 10 speed rear derailuer, 9 speed xtr front dr, xt cranks with 44-36-22 9 speed rings and a 10 speed chain and 10 cassette. I know that the fd dereailuer and crank must match due to the change in chainrings spacing an number of teeth. Will this combo work, can you use the 9 speed chainrings with the 10 speed chain?


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

I think that is OK. I just tried my new 10-sp chain on 9-sp rings on my new crankset and they fit fine. I even tried the chain out on an old Campy double crank set (from the old 2x5 days) and if physically fits, but might be a little snug for shifting as you can feel the slightest drag of the teeth inside the chain links.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

NielsJ said:


> Pictures!


+1 on that.


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## doismellbacon (Sep 20, 2007)

Goose127 said:


> Hi. Read through a lot of this and not sure I can find a answer. I am looking to use the following. Shimano xtr 10 speed shifters, front and rear. 10 speed rear derailuer, 9 speed xtr front dr, xt cranks with 44-36-22 9 speed rings and a 10 speed chain and 10 cassette. I know that the fd dereailuer and crank must match due to the change in chainrings spacing an number of teeth. Will this combo work, can you use the 9 speed chainrings with the 10 speed chain?


In my experience setting up a couple of bikes with hybrid 9sp / dynasys 10sp, mixing a 9sp ft der w/ a 10sp ft shifter did not work well, while keeping everything for the back end + chain 10 sp (r der, r shifter, cassette, chain), with everything for the front end 9sp ( der, shifter, crank & rings) worked great. I'm not sure what you should expect with the weird choice of chainring sizes. My double (XT 770 3x crank, run with bash and XT rings in 36/26, 36/24, 36/22) worked great with the SLX 9sp ft derailleur that was designed for 2x Bash running the 36 big ring. Shimano's ft der's have some pretty complex shaping intended to move the chain when/where you want it without excess rub in cross gears. I'm no absolute authority on this, but I think you're going to end up with sub-par front shifting..... try it, but I think you may end up needing to put an older 9sp ft shifter into the mix.
EDIT: I looked through some of the earlier posts that claim a 10sp front shifter works fine with 9sp ft derailleur and rings.... that was not my experience, but in that case I was stepping into the middle of a setup my buddy was struggling with on his bike, so maybe I missed something not doing it from scratch... or maybe those earlier posts were wrong. My setup works great, so you'll have to read through all the pages of posts, not me Good luck.


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## Stevoo (Mar 9, 2007)

Someone wanted pictures. Here is the spacer needed to allow Shimano 10-speed rear derailleur to play nice with SRAM 9-speed trigger shifter.
Not sure how to post an image so here is a link to them if you want to see.
https://picasaweb.google.com/GooselawAndGray/Deraillleur?authkey=Gv1sRgCMuH1KG5tuykhAE#[/


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

Stevoo said:


> Someone wanted pictures. Here is the spacer needed to allow Shimano 10-speed rear derailleur to play nice with SRAM 9-speed trigger shifter.


Totally geeky! :thumbsup:









I'm considering using a 10spd trigger on a 9spd RD and 9spd cassette. If this does the trick I'm in! However, it seems I should have a spacer in the opposite direction, so maybe it's a bad idea to begin with :madman:


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

this is a repost - would be really cool if you could solve the mystery for me - thanx!

hey there. sorry if this question I'm about to ask someone already posted, there's just zillions of posts and didn't get thru all of them...

I basically want to get XTR 980 38-26t crankset. it's ten-speeder, of course, and I would just replace the old 9 speed crankset with it. everything else is 9 speed set-up.

I read around the net that it'll work great, even better than the 9 speed crankset and that I don't have to change anything..
anyone else done that? would be really cool if you did to share the experience with that kind of set-up.

also - I read that 38-26t version is the only version that has cranks made the way it can hold a bash guard. I really hope that is the case as I need to have a bash.

once again, sorry if somebody else made the same post before...
thanx!


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

NielsJ said:


> Totally geeky! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You would need a 10spd cassette in that case. Maybe a 10spd Shimano shifter, 9spd SRAM derailleur, and 10spd cassette.


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

GTscoob said:


> You would need a 10spd cassette in that case. Maybe a 10spd Shimano shifter, 9spd SRAM derailleur, and 10spd cassette.


The plan was to limit the last step on the trigger with the limit screws on the RD - the same way I made my 3spd FD work on a 2spd crank.
I'm using a Saint RD. They don't come in 10spd, but I like the i-Spec triggers and they only come in 10spd :madman:

Just found this one:
Bicycles/Maintenance and Repair/Gear-changing Dimensions - Wikibooks, open books for an open world :thumbsup:
As I see it, I need to make the 10spd trigger pull 0,2mm less cable in order to make it work on a 9 spd RD. 
Now, does anyone have any figures of the parallelogram on a Shimano 9spd RD??


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

NielsJ said:


> The plan was to limit the last step on the trigger with the limit screws on the RD - the same way I made my 3spd FD work on a 2spd crank.
> I'm using a Saint RD. They don't come in 10spd, but I like the i-Spec triggers and they only come in 10spd :madman:


You're going to jump through hoops because you want to use a Saint RD? Sell the Saint and pick up a 10spd SLX rear D, they're probably very similar and will work out of the box.

Or go SRAM and run a Matchmaker setup:thumbsup:


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## zambon (Apr 8, 2012)

*9sp or 10sp xt upgrade?*

Hello,i am new to mountaibiking.
I bought a Canyon Yellowstone 4.0(2012) and i was thinking of upgrading the drivetrain after summer to full shimano XT.(the bike has only a rear derailleur xt-shadow 9-speed of the xt series).
1)Should i go to 9speed or to 10 speed full xt upgrade?as i read that 10 speed will dominate..
2)It worths the money such an upgrade?


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## sandfrog (Aug 29, 2010)

So I think that I have it all stright. On the way I have the following
XTR Dyna 10sp RD (The new shadow plus)
XT 10sp R shifter
10Sp Chain
XT 11-36 10sp

All of this takes care of the rear. 
Up front I have 2010 9sp XT cranks, rings, DR and shifter.

From what I read the10sp chain should do fine with my front 9sp components...right???


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

GTscoob said:


> You're going to jump through hoops because you want to use a Saint RD? Sell the Saint and pick up a 10spd SLX rear D, they're probably very similar and will work out of the box.
> 
> Or go SRAM and run a Matchmaker setup:thumbsup:


I already bought the XT 785 brakes, so SRAM/Avid MatchMaker is out of the question. 
And yes, maybe a little crazy to jump through hoops because of a 9spd RD, but I think 10spd makes things more expensive, I don't need the extra gear, and the geek factor would be cool :cornut: 
(also, the Saint has gold on it :ihih: )


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## doismellbacon (Sep 20, 2007)

sandfrog said:


> So I think that I have it all stright. On the way I have the following
> XTR Dyna 10sp RD (The new shadow plus)
> XT 10sp R shifter
> 10Sp Chain
> ...


Yep, that's right... I have the EXACT same setup and it works great


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## bnelson (Jan 25, 2004)

how can I get a slx cassette work on a crank brother cobalt wheel?Hits the flanges and if i use spacer it will not grip threads on freehub.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

bnelson said:


> how can I get a slx cassette work on a crank brother cobalt wheel?Hits the flanges and if i use spacer it will not grip threads on freehub.


Without an image it is difficult to understand what you mean. A Shimano SLX cassette is about as standard as you can get. If it doesn't fit, what will? Is the cassette maybe faulty. If not I'd contact Crank Brothers.


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## cort (Mar 29, 2004)

bnelson said:


> how can I get a slx cassette work on a crank brother cobalt wheel?Hits the flanges and if i use spacer it will not grip threads on freehub.


What was the total spacer thickness that you tried? Are you using the correct freehub spacers?

In your case, I believe if you use a total of 8mm ( play around with different spacer config's to get the correct chainline) this should work on your 8/9sp freehub body.


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## richardchen (Mar 22, 2004)

*I was soooo hopeful...*



camus said:


> No, no no. I was not able to get this to work. I love Rapid Rise almost as much as I love my own dick. I ordered the pulley recommended one this forum. I tinkered with it for days. I went through three derailleur cables. And, not to brag, but after 25 years working on bikes, motos, and cars, I am no slouch in the shop.
> 
> Couldn't get it to work - almost but not quite. It would shift through the first 4 small cogs just fine then skip over a the large ones. Coming back from the large cogs it would shift just fine then skip over the middle cogs. It was aggravating, I tell you!
> 
> ...


That this would work. I'm in the same camp as you guys. I love Rapid Rise. It just makes more sense. When going from a flat/downhill into a technical uphill, being able to dump gears without having to change hand positions is a huge bonus.

I'm new to the 10 speed world and did my first race yesterday on a very, very technical course and I missed a few easy uphills because I could dumb gears fast enough. Granted, it could be because I'm used to RR, but I've been on 12 rides and I'm still having a tough time.

Shimano, Sram, baby Jesus....whoever. Please make a RR derailleur for 10 speed again. I'd be happy to pay more for one that would work.


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

So far my RR 10-sp. setup looks like it will work. Still waiting on a frame to bolt it all up to, but have the indexed (Shimano (BS79 barcons) shifter installed on the brake lever and cable run to a RD (Shimano XT M770-SGS) and it seems to line up with the rear cogs on every shift position up and down the gears. If index mode does not work, I can always fall back to friction mode, but hoping the index works when I get it all on the frame with a chain running through it.


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## solitone (Apr 27, 2011)

cpclydesdale said:


> No. I've been down this path and it wasn't pretty. 1st I tried just running my same old 2x9 Dues XC crankset and the new 10 speed chain would get stuck in between the rings and not seat properly on the teeth. 2nd I tried changing to 10 speed rings and keeping the cranks, this just made the chain getting stuck between the rings worse. Chainring washers didn't help, because it weakened the rings and allowed them to flex. 3rd I ordered an X9 2x10 crank and F. derailleur, mounted it, and now I ride with no issues and a stiffer more direct crankset.
> 
> Don't make the mistakes I did. Just get a complete 10 speed drivetrain.


This seems to contradict what is said in the original post, which has also been confirmed in later posts.

Is SRAM's 10 speed system different in this respect from Shimano's?

Has anyone else experienced similar issues when mixing 9 speed crankset and chainrings with 10 spd chain and cassette?

I'm thinking of using the following components for my new drivetrain:

- 9 spd Saint crankset
- 9 spd Saint front derailleur
- 10 spd XT cassette
- 10 spd XT rear derailleur
- 10 spd XT chain
- 10 spd front and rear XT shifters

May I mix these?

EDIT - update: according to this post you can mix Saint 9 spd crankset and rings with XT 10 spd drivetrain:
http://forums.mtbr.com/9206360-post9.html


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## mtb_rider11 (Dec 28, 2011)

solitone said:


> This seems to contradict what is said in the original post, which has also been confirmed in later posts.
> 
> Is SRAM's 10 speed system different in this respect from Shimano's?
> 
> ...


You have a 9 speed fd so I would think it should work.

Not the same parts as yours, but I just put on a Shimano XTR 9 speed (triple) crankset, while everything else on the bike is 10 speed (fr derailleur Shimano SLX, rear derailleur SRAM X.9, SRAM X.7shifters, XTR cassette and chain). Works very well. Shifting is not quite as good as with the 10 speed crankset (Shimano M552), but good enough. I'm enjoying the lighter cranks.


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

will 10 speed crankset work with 9 speed setup? want to get XTR 980 cranks to replace the cranks I now have - all else is 9 speed setup.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Yes, it will work fine with a 9 speed chain.


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

epiphreddy said:


> Yes, it will work fine with a 9 speed chain.


thanx buddy - will I need to adjust spacing between front chaingrings? 10 speed chain is slimmer than 9 speed - that's why I ask.

thanx again


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## sandfrog (Aug 29, 2010)

So here is what i found that does work and it workes well.
9sp XT crankset 
9sp XT FD
9sp XT Front Shifter
10sp XTR Shadow Plus RD (freakin awesome by the way!)
10sp XT 11-36 Cassette Dynasys
10sp XT Rear Shifter Dynasys
10sp Sram 1031 chain.

Installed and tuned in seconds! Shifts perfect front and rear. Under hard load up hill and no load down hill. Basically I was able to go 2x10 using my XT tripple and a bash. Set my high limit to prevent the FD from over shifting past the middle chainring. Bought 10speed stuff for the rear and that is all she wrote. Cheap and easy.. if you dont figure in the XTR shadow plus.....


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## bbohr (Feb 10, 2004)

*10 Speed XT Front Derailleur with 9 speed double crank?*

Will it work? I need a new front derailleur for a build.
The rest of my system is 9 speed .
2x9 SLX crank up front.
Thanks!


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## fcamaro24 (Apr 22, 2012)

can you use a 
slx 9 speed crank
Shimano XT RD-M780 Shadow Rear Derailleur SGS
Shimano XT SL-M780 Shift Levers
not sure what chain or what front derailleur


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## SalakauEx-Convict (Apr 29, 2012)

Hey guys, i'm new to mountain biking and i just want to ask, can my Crank: Shimano Octalink alloy(44x32x22T), BB: Shimano BB ; be converted into a single speed crank? Thnx


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## trekfueler (Mar 16, 2009)

Hey guys, I DID search, couldn't find answer: Where can I find a 26t granny to replace the 24t that came on 10x3 XT Dyna-Sys? I read elsewhere that I can use a 9-spd 26t granny, but shims are needed for chainline??? Doesn't anyone make a Dyna-Sys 3x10 specific 26t granny? Thanks, and sorry if the answer is indeed buried in here somewhere!


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## Too_Fast_46 (Apr 16, 2011)

*Sharing My Experience*

I recently replaced my old crankset leaving me with the following setup:

Front
- Shimano SLX M660-10 Dynan-Sys 3x10 crankset
- Sram X.9 3x9 shifter
- Shimano Deore 3x9 front derailleur

Rear
- Shimano 11-34 9spd cassette
- Sram X.9 9spd rear derailleur
- Sram X.9 9spd shifter

All paired with a Sram PC1031 10spd chain. I was worried about the front derailleur/shifter combo with the crankset, but I have to admit I am very impressed with the shifting- given I do only use the larger two rings (limiter blocking out the granny ring.) In addition, the 10spd chain works beautifully with the rear cassette.

On a side note: the spacing on the larger two rings is identical on the new crankset compared to my old Truvativ Five-D 3x9.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*Answer...*



bbohr said:


> Will it work? I need a new front derailleur for a build.
> The rest of my system is 9 speed .
> 2x9 SLX crank up front.
> Thanks!


I'm in the same boat, and would like to know this one for sure as well.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

bbohr said:


> Will it work? I need a new front derailleur for a build.
> The rest of my system is 9 speed .
> 2x9 SLX crank up front.
> Thanks!


I've built my Banshee Paradox (which needs a direct mount front derailleur) using a XT 10 speed M786. My crankset is a XT M770 set up with 22/32 and a bash-guard. It took a bit of adjusting but it works fine.


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## thegoodword (Jul 25, 2008)

So if I read this monster long thread correctly, I can keep my 9speed XT M770 22x32x44 crank, front X9 shifter, and my direct mount M771 XT front derailure. This thread mostly talks about Dyna Sys 10 speed rear though. I have a Niner W.F.O. and I would like an extra granny gear at 22 small ring up front and 36 pie plate ring on the rear cassette. It seems like a SRAM 10speed rear derailure long cage has 47T capacity according to the Performancebike website. Is there any reason I could not keep the above listed 9 speed front and get a SRAM X9 10 speed long cage, X9 10 speed shifter, and a 10 speed cassette? 
My other question is if it is worth it? Just how flawless is the poor man's 10 speed conversion? I have a bottom bracket that needs replacing on a first generation M952 XTR 9 sp. crank on my hardtail. Replacement rings for those M952 XTR cranks are getting elusive (if not impossible to find) and are still stupid expensive. Would I just be better off getting 10 speed cranks and running an actual 3 x 10 and then putting the XT crank set on as a replacement for the M952? Sure its more money, but eventually I am going to have to replace that M952 crank and I have to replace the bottom bracket now, so I may be spending the dough anyway. Your expert thoughts MTBR community?


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Whether anything is worth doing is your call and, as always, YMMV...

My general impression is that "x speed cranks/chainrings" don't matter much - unless perhaps you have a triple and shift under heavy load a lot. If you're going to have a double and shift moderately carefully then just about any cranks and rings will work with 7/8/9/10 speed, with the proviso that if the lateral gap between the rings is too wide you might get slow shifting and/or "skating," however this is unlikely unless you have 5/6 speed spaced rings.

Re chainrings: IIRC there was at east one 110/74 spider available for the M95x cranks, which would allow the use of lots of rings from just about everyone. Alternately, maybe TA and/or Middleburn still do rings for the weirdo pattern, or else I'm getting confused with M960.


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

4Crawler said:


> I can confirm that the SL-BS78s have both friction and index mode, at least on the rear shifter. Front is friction only. Picked up a used set off of eBay, just waiting on the RetroShift brake levers to mount them on. Oh and a handlebar to put the levers on and the rest of the bike to put the handlebar on
> 
> Did get the R/S brake levers today and the SL-BS78s fit on them perfectly, just had to order one extra thin washer to replace the fat one on the rear shifter.


To follow up on this, I finally got the frame and built up the bike around it. The shifters work just fine in index mode, with an HG-62 cassette (11-36) and XT-M770 Rapid Rise RD. Front is SLX M660 crank (20-32-44) and XTR-M971 FD (more or less friction mode):










- Monstercross Bicycle Build

Again this is a set of SL-BS79 bar end shifters on the RetroShift brake levers. The rear shifter is switchable between index and friction mode. The rear shifting is really crisp, just clicks from cog to cog, no hesitation or noise.


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## darzsiklista (Jun 16, 2011)

bbohr said:


> Will it work? I need a new front derailleur for a build.
> The rest of my system is 9 speed .
> 2x9 SLX crank up front.
> Thanks!


it worked fine for me, though it takes a lot of tweaking to get the 10spd fd to work properly.
im running an xt-m771 fd on a 2x9 xt crank. hope this helps!


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

please help, i'm desperate, 11 pages but i am over trawling through pages on the web so hopefully my question is a simple one to those in the know.

the bike, Surly cross check

shifters, new Dura ace 10 speed bar end
10 speed xt cassette
deore 10 speed shadow (dyna sys)

as you can guess, it's not shifter well at all.

how do i fix this? 

change the cassette to a road variety?

change the derailleur? if so to what?

i want to keep my 10 speed dura ace bar end shifters

if it matters i'm running a new compact 105 crankset, front 105 DR and a 105 10 speed chain

any help is greatly appreciated.

cheers
Steve


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

Easiest fix would be to put in a 9sp. RD. I'm running an XT M770 RD (Rapid Rise) with 10-sp. bar ends and cassette and it works perfect. The DynaSys components have a different cable pull than the 9sp MTB or 10sp road components use.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

thanks for the reply, is there an issue using a shadow 9 speed rear mech? i've read that it doesn't work but i can't imagine why, 9 speed pull would be the same for both shadow and conventional wouldn't it?


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

Sorry, not familiar with that RD model, but maybe someone that has experience with it might chime in.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> thanks for the reply, is there an issue using a shadow 9 speed rear mech? i've read that it doesn't work but i can't imagine why, 9 speed pull would be the same for both shadow and conventional wouldn't it?


The 9 speed shadow rear derailleur will work fine with road 10 speed shifters.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

i should update this, got a 9 speed shadow deore on my xt cassette running 10 speed retroshift/microshift levers, works great!


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## turquoise (Jul 25, 2011)

I tried running a 10-speed xt crank (m770) on a 9-speed system. It shifts fine but the chain fails off almost all the time on descents. The chain length is correct so it's not a slack issue. To be clear, I'm running a 9 speed chain and I'd guess a 10 speed chain would fix that problem but I'm just sell it and get a 9 speed crank.


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## Sirrah (Sep 23, 2011)

I am planning to use FD M985 front derailleur with 3 speed shifter and truvativ 3 speed crank with small chain ring removed. I only use bike for commuting and dirt road riding so small chain ring never gets used. I am not sure it will work but investment is small so just doing it for a bit of fun. At the moment I use the set screws to stop the small chain ring being used. If it works I may do my own mod on the shifter to turn it into a 2 spd


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## BarryWind (Jun 23, 2010)

And... my bike shifts great with the SRAM 1070 chain, instead of the Shimano directional chain. And I'm breaking all the compatibility rules even more by running a KMC Missing Link instead of the SRAM PowerLock...


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## gazza007 (Apr 24, 2011)

Piece of cake

I bought a xt shadow plus 10 speed rear deraileur 
36-11 xt 10 speed cassette
10 Deore Shifter rh side (couldnt get xt)
10 speed chain

i fitted xt36 and xt26 nine speed rings and bash guard on to my xt m770 9 speed triple crank kept the 9 speed xt front derailleur
$300 all up:thumbsup:

works a treat the new shadow plus is simply awesome no chain slap for me.

I cant believe its taken so many pages for people to get as long as the rear is fully 10 speed and as long as the front is fully 9 speed, just run a 10 speed chain perfect.


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## jpgodwin (Aug 1, 2012)

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me.

I have a Specialised Epic 2003, with a full XT m760 groupset.

I originally purchased this bike new and then never rode it. I just pulled it out of the garage to start riding it again, and I've been reading about 2x10.

I've noticed by chain skips off a lot and gets locked between the cranks, so I want to try 2x10 for smoother shifting. I ride mainly on the road to commute, but also XC (Not a big downhiller).

What is the bare minimum I would need in order to switch my current bike to a 2x10 setup?

I would really rather not have to change the crank, and was wondering if I could just switch the rings or something.

If someone could explain this to me in the way they would to a complete idiot, that would be very helpful, as I've forgotten everything I ever knew about bikes over the last nine years.

So yeah, in summary, I have a 3x9 bike, everything XT m760, and I wish to turn it into a 2x10 with as minimal change to parts as is humanly possible.

Thanks in advance!


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

jpgodwin said:


> So yeah, in summary, I have a 3x9 bike, everything XT m760, and I wish to turn it into a 2x10 with as minimal change to parts as is humanly possible.


If you insist on wanting 10speed in the back, you have to change pretty much everything.
Keep the 9speed and change only the chainrings in the front, and adjust the FD with the limit screws.
If chain is skipping it's either worn or not adjusted correctly.

For commuting I'd probably keep the 3 rings in front (44t for top speed), or perhaps just remove the granny.


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## neninja (Jul 11, 2010)

If your existing 9 speed XT set up is unused then it simply needs setting up properly.

Get your local bike shop to set up the front and rear derailleurs properly and the chain skipping and chain suck should get sorted.


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## jpgodwin (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks for the responses, guys. I'm going to put the bike in for a service.

Neil, I didn't realise you could keep the 9 speed on the back. In which case, I'm thinking of losing the big ring at the front and switching the middle ring for something slightly larger.

Does that sound sensible?

I'm quite set on losing one of the rings, as the outer ring is almost never used. I think a slightly larger middle ring would give me the best of both worlds.


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## jpgodwin (Aug 1, 2012)

OK, I've done a bit of research, and I think what I'm after is a 24/36 set up on the front.

Does anyone know how I check compatibility with my m760 XT crank, or will any ring fit?

Any recommendations would be appreciated, I'm on a bit of a budget.

Thanks guys


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

jpgodwin, take a look at Specialites TA Chinook chainrings for non-XTR Shimano 4-bolt cranksets. There are lots of sizes available. including 24T and 36T.


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

jpgodwin said:


> OK, I've done a bit of research, and I think what I'm after is a 24/36 set up on the front.
> 
> Does anyone know how I check compatibility with my m760 XT crank, or will any ring fit?


I replaced my 44-32-22 / 32-11 setup with a 39-26 / 34-11, keeping the rear a 9spd setup. I works great and I'm not really missing any gears.

Your chainring should probacly have a BCD of 64 and 104mm, and then you can use just about everything. You can consider replacing the outer chainring with a bashring.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

gazza007 said:


> I cant believe its taken so many pages for people to get as long as the rear is fully 10 speed and as long as the front is fully 9 speed, just run a 10 speed chain perfect.


i am a little hung up as to whether i need a dynasis cassette or will an sram 10 speed work.? I have found out that my sram xo rear will work with shimano 10 speed shifter, so now it's just if my sram 10 speed cassette from my other bike will cross over


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

No real distinction in 10sp cassettes as far as I understand. So all 10sp cassettes have the same overall width and cog spacing. As long as using a 10sp chain, then they are happy. 

The distinction is if you use any 10sp MTB shifters or FD/RD (i.e DynaSys) parts. I am running a 10sp cassette, 10sp chain, 9sp crankset, 9sp FD and RD and 10sp road shifters and that works perfect.


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## Hokidachi (Feb 7, 2012)

Created a new thread as my question was not that related to this one.

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...g-xt-m780-3x10-2x10-36t-chainring-806052.html


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

natrat said:


> I have found out that my sram xo rear will work with shimano 10 speed shifter


How did you find that out?


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## gazza007 (Apr 24, 2011)

natrat said:


> i am a little hung up as to whether i need a dynasis cassette or will an sram 10 speed work.? I have found out that my sram xo rear will work with shimano 10 speed shifter, so now it's just if my sram 10 speed cassette from my other bike will cross over


If you have the cassette already the easiest thing to do is give it a go.

I tried the xt shadow plus out on my pivot firebird last weekend on are local dh track didn't drop on chain this was the only reason I went 10 speed,blood awesome


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## solitone (Apr 27, 2011)

I just post my experience, which confirms once again what is explained in the original post.

I have customised a Shimano XT 2012 double crankset, replacing its original chainrings with 22-36T chainrings--Shimano XT 9 speed chainrings, for triple.

It works flawlessly. Rest of the drivetrain is 10 speed. Cassette: Shimano XT 10 speed 11-36T. FD: Shimano XT 2012. RD: Shimano XTR Shadow Plus. Chain: KMC silver 10 speed.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

NielsJ said:


> How did you find that out?


i read it on here after searching, but i wont know definitely until i get the new shifter in a few days. I did put the 10 speed cassette and chain on and it seemed like it lined up and pedaled smooth on the stand. The only thing that looks ify is the xo 9 speed deralieur will need a longer limit screw and even then the pulley is a bit close to the 36 tooth but it still functioned smoothly


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

natrat said:


> i read it on here after searching, but i wont know definitely until i get the new shifter in a few days. I did put the 10 speed cassette and chain on and it seemed like it lined up and pedaled smooth on the stand. The only thing that looks ify is the xo 9 speed deralieur will need a longer limit screw and even then the pulley is a bit close to the 36 tooth but it still functioned smoothly


Stevoo mixed an SRAM 9spd trigger, a Shimano 10spd RD and a 9spd cassette, but it seems you are doing the complete opposite?
I'll be looking forward to see your result :thumbsup:


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

NielsJ said:


> I'll be looking forward to see your result :thumbsup:


mixed results. I installed the 10 speed xtr shifter and it wouldnt work right with the xo 9 speed d. But that might have been partly due to a worn small chainring that was throwing things off. I then tried a new xt d long cage and it still wouldnt work. New chainring fixed it. So the xo 9 spd might have worked but the xt is sweet. $220 into it and a new kmc chain definitely worth it ,although the new chain has made the front shift a little strange but still works


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## stingray230sx (Jun 5, 2012)

well crap!!

i am putting together a GT Ruckus i got as frame only and have been collecting XT 9 speed parts a little at a time,.
took a chance and ordered M770 9 speed shifters/M770-FD from a hong kong seller.

got my parts and they sent an M780-FD instead, and i am not dealing with that bunch again, 30 days to get something and the way they ship, and it seems as if the consensus here is that the dynasis FD has a different geometry than the mega9 FD.

oh well, looks like my M780 is going on ebay.........


doug


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

FWIW,

My 2012 XT DynaSys drivetrain mutations

3x24/32/42 rings to 24/36/nothing RaceFace Turbine

Replaced XT FD with SRAM X0 FD, my frame uses e-type direct-mount so to get proper front shifting I needed the cage closer to the rings, SRAM makes a couple front-d's that are spec'd for 36t larger ring, 2x style.

Flipped switch on XT shifter from 3x to 2x mode.

Works great.


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## lostraveller (Feb 28, 2012)

Im looking to set up a salsa Fargo or Surly Ogre for bikepacking and gravel/dirt road touring. I think a 22/32/44 crankset would suit my purposes. DEFINATELY require the 22t. Not certain about 44t or 42t large ring. 
I was thinking along the lines of the 2013 SLX 10 speed grougset. BUT....crankset is 24/32/42t i believe. So !!!
1. Just buy a 22t and replace the stock 24t. Giving me 22/32/42. Would I miss the 44t? Derailleur CAPACITY problems?

2. Replace 24 and 42 with 22 and 44. Derailleur CAPACITY problems?

3.Buy 9speed 22/32/44 SLX crank, 9 speed F Dr, 9 speed F Shifter....then everything else 10 speed 2013 SLX.

4. Is there a 22/32/44t 10 speed crankset that will work with everything else 2013 SLX?

Your thoughts please!!! It is probably evident that im a beginner.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

i know less than you but in my research i found that on a xtr crank it's a hassle to go from 24 to 22 because the bolt pattern or something is different, however this may not apply to slx.

capacity problems solved with sgs long cage der

i am using a 9 speed xt crankset and it doesnt shift as well as a 10 speed setup so personally i would avoid that

44 and 42 large ring not worth worrying about imo at least as far as riding goes


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## BarryWind (Jun 23, 2010)

I just did the CTR with 21/34/bash chainrings on an Ibis Mojo SL that was almost 40# full loaded with gear. Crank and double FD are 9-spd SLX and rest of the drivetrain is 10-spd XT. For [non-loaded, not-bikepacking] normal use, I run 22/36/bash ring set. Cassette is 11-36. I know flatlanders out there can't fathom running gears that low, but almost all my mountain biking is in the mountains at altitude. Throw 10-20 pounds of gear onto the bike and low gearing makes even more sense. Don't let the machos out there shame you into tall gearing.
If you never ride much on pavement and, then you will _not_ miss the big ring. A 32 is a bit small as a large ring, but a 36 [with a 11T on the cassette] gives you a decent high gear for gravel/dirt. With a 36T as my big ring, I can briefly sprint up to 33-35 MPH and pedal all day long in the low/mid-20s. If I'm riding faster than the mid to upper 20s, then it probably means I can coast anyway...
The switch to a 24T as the granny on the new 10-spd cranks is somewhat offset by the choice of a 11-36T cassette. But it's no problem to swap out the 24T granny for a 22 or even a 21. BTW, a 21 takes minimal filing/grinding of the spider, but a 20 [yes, you can do it!] takes quite a bit of spider _reshaping_.
And just to reiterate, ANY 9-spd [double or triple] crank will work with a 10-spd drivetrain - you don't need a new 10-spd crank. 
_edit/add: Chainrings for SLX/XT... or just about any 104/64mm crank are interchangeable._



lostraveller said:


> Im looking to set up a salsa Fargo or Surly Ogre for bikepacking and gravel/dirt road touring. I think a 22/32/44 crankset would suit my purposes. DEFINATELY require the 22t. ...snip...
> Your thoughts please!!!


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

lostraveller said:


> Im looking to set up a salsa Fargo or Surly Ogre for bikepacking and gravel/dirt road touring. I think a 22/32/44 crankset would suit my purposes. DEFINATELY require the 22t. Not certain about 44t or 42t large ring.
> I was thinking along the lines of the 2013 SLX 10 speed grougset. BUT....crankset is 24/32/42t i believe. So !!!
> 1. Just buy a 22t and replace the stock 24t. Giving me 22/32/42. Would I miss the 44t? Derailleur CAPACITY problems?
> 
> ...


All depends on what you want to do for handlebars and shifters. That will drive the FD/RD choices. So are you planning on a drop bar w/ road shifters or a flat bar w/ MTB shifters?

I'm running a drop bar + 10sp road shifters with pretty much your #3 scenario except with a 9sp RD and it works great. I had the 22-32-44 crank and swapped out the 22t for a 20t small ring.


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## lostraveller (Feb 28, 2012)

4Crawler said:


> All depends on what you want to do for handlebars and shifters. That will drive the FD/RD choices. So are you planning on a drop bar w/ road shifters or a flat bar w/ MTB shifters?
> 
> I'm running a drop bar + 10sp road shifters with pretty much your #3 scenario except with a 9sp RD and it works great. I had the 22-32-44 crank and swapped out the 22t for a 20t small ring.


Will use with flat bar( jones loop hopefully) and MTB shifters.


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

lostraveller said:


> Will use with flat bar( jones loop hopefully) and MTB shifters.


In that case, just be sure to keep front and rear all the same, so all 9sp or all 10sp like in your option #3. Front could be 9sp or 10sp, rear all 10sp.


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## Blorin (Sep 7, 2012)

*Alivio 3x9 crankset with M661 Dynasys FD*

Hello!

My bike is a 26' full Alivio.
I would like to upgrade my Alivio 3x9 drivetrain, but only step by step because of the budget...

I first bought a rear derailleur XT M772 9 speed to upgrade my Alivio one, but for the front derailleur I intended to use the SLX M661 9 speed.
Unfortunately, when leaving the shop I got a SLX Dynasys FD 3x10 instead of the 3x9 one... and the shop is in Austria and I'm in Romania!

Question: is it going to work the 3x10 FD with my 3x9 crankset or should I buy another FD?
Or is it possible to replace only the 44T with a 42T one? 
I saw in this thread that overshifting/undershifting may appear...

Thanks!


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## cookiedough (Nov 14, 2006)

Running an SLX triple Dynasys front, swapped out the 24T for an FSA 22 (9&10 compatible). Kept the 32&44, 44 being a bashgaurd with traction ;o) The rear is the 11-36 10 spd XT dynasys.

My frame is the RIP9, doesn't shift 32 to 22 on the stand, but when I'm on the bike and the suspension is sagged, shifts just fine. I wanted the gear inches I had on my HiFi, 9 sp 22/32/44 with an 11-32 9 rear in 26 inch format, so 22-36 with 29 wheels was necessary. Shifts great when riding.


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## slyfink (Apr 15, 2004)

gazza007 said:


> Piece of cake
> 
> I bought a xt shadow plus 10 speed rear deraileur
> 36-11 xt 10 speed cassette
> ...





solitone said:


> I just post my experience, which confirms once again what is explained in the original post.
> 
> I have customised a Shimano XT 2012 double crankset, replacing its original chainrings with 22-36T chainrings--Shimano XT 9 speed chainrings, for triple.
> 
> It works flawlessly. Rest of the drivetrain is 10 speed. Cassette: Shimano XT 10 speed 11-36T. FD: Shimano XT 2012. RD: Shimano XTR Shadow Plus. Chain: KMC silver 10 speed.


How are you guys getting along with this setup. I'm toying with the idea of going 10 speed, mostly because I want a clutch derailleur. I'm on 9 speed shimano, 26-32 front, and 11-34 rear. Based on your posts, I think I can get away with changing only the rear cassette, derailleur, shifter and chain. I can keep my (9 speed) front rings, derailleur and shifter, correct?


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## gazza007 (Apr 24, 2011)

slyfink said:


> How are you guys getting along with this setup. I'm toying with the idea of going 10 speed, mostly because I want a clutch derailleur. I'm on 9 speed shimano, 26-32 front, and 11-34 rear. Based on your posts, I think I can get away with changing only the rear cassette, derailleur, shifter and chain. I can keep my (9 speed) front rings, derailleur and shifter, correct?


Yep still running awesome best upgrade ever, do it you won't regret it!!!


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## rzat (Sep 1, 2012)

ATM i got Shimano 3x8. planning to upgrade to 2x10 in stages. If i buy slx 2x crankset with fd and fr.shifter do i need to change anything else? Will it work with 8sp chain? Thanks
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## ivarulz (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi guys,

Read about 10 pages of this thread but couldn't find my answer.

currently my setup is:
- 970 cranks - 22-32-42
- XT 770 FD
- LX front shifter

I want to change the shifter.
In the future I may change to 2x10, keeping the same cranks and front derailleur.

What shifter should I buy?
- 9 speed XT 770 shifter - 3x - and after migration to 2x10 will lock it from the FD screws?
or
- newer XT 780 2/3 x 10 shifters.
Will the 780 3x mode be compatible with my current setup?
Will the 780 2x mode be compatible with the (ghetto) 2x10 on the 970 cranks? I heard that the 2/3x switch on this shifter will oblige you to use the 2x ring in the middle and on the outside (not on the inside/granny and middle)

thanks


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## r3dp0int (Oct 10, 2012)

Does anyone know if EITHER the Shimano 10spd MTB FD or 9spd MTB FD will work with road (e.g. Dura Ace) shifters?


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ None of the MTB front derailleurs will work properly with any road STI levers as they require more cable travel than the levers have. If you're talking about bar end or downtube levers then there's no problem, since these are not indexed.


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## kentp83 (Apr 18, 2009)

*yes*

yes


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## kentp83 (Apr 18, 2009)

*yes*

(im trying to make the dang required initiation number of replies so I can post an important question about a crank arm...sorry)


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## kentp83 (Apr 18, 2009)

*sorry*

(im trying to make the dang required initiation number of replies so I can post an important question about a crank arm...sorry)


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## kentp83 (Apr 18, 2009)

sorry
(im trying to make the dang required initiation number of replies so I can post an important question about a crank arm...sorry)


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## kentp83 (Apr 18, 2009)

*so sorry*

:madman:so sorry (im trying to make the dang required initiation number of replies so I can post an important question about a crank arm...sorry)


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## kentp83 (Apr 18, 2009)

*so so sorry*

so so so:madman: sorry. (im trying to make the dang required initiation number of replies so I can post an important question about a crank arm...sorry)


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## kentp83 (Apr 18, 2009)

*so so so so sorry*

so so so so (im trying to make the dang required initiation number of replies so I can post an important question about a crank arm...sorry)


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## kentp83 (Apr 18, 2009)

so so so so so sorry(im trying to make the dang required initiation number of replies so I can post an important question about a crank arm...sorry)


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## kentp83 (Apr 18, 2009)

*so so so so so sorry*

:madman:so so so so so sorry (im trying to make the dang required initiation number of replies so I can post an important question about a crank arm...sorry)


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## Meddle6 (Mar 15, 2009)

Throughout the course of the day, I've read this whole discussion, but my scenario isn't here, so I'll throw it in the ring: 
I'd like to run a complete 10 speed setup using sram components while retaining only my shimano xt cranks, setup 22/36/bash. 

My thought is that I've been limiting my 3 speed down to 2 for years, and now there's actually a front shifter designed for that, it should do the job much better, maybe with less effort. 

So are there complications using a 10 speed shifter/FD on a 9 speed crank? I'd be ok changing to a 9 speed FD, but I'll be honest, I was hoping to avoid mismatched shifters on my bars. What are the differences in cable pull for the FD from 9 to 10? I'm sure there are some suggestions I haven't considered or wasn't aware of, so thanks in advance for everyones help.


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

The front d cable pull hasn't changed.

I have 2012 xt dynasys shifters, my front d is an SRAM x.0 2x for 24x36.

Since I know SRAM has not changed their cable pulls, in know Shimano hasn't either. 

_Sent from my brain using neurons fueled by glucose_


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## matthewyaron (Jan 15, 2010)

I just installed my 1-10 set up with 38 tooth up front my question is should the front ring be on the outside or the middle, or if it can?


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

Whichever gives you a more centered chain line to the rear cogs I would think.

_Sent from my brain using neurons fueled by glucose_


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## bluesaint7 (Nov 5, 2012)

*M980 2x10 chain ring help! need better granny!*

hi all,

i have a new setup with:
m980 xtr 2x10 26/38 and 11-36 xt cassete rear and xt m780 direct mount FD

i have weak legs and dying on steady long steep climbs with this current setup.

Would the m980 xtr 3x10 24t be a direct swap?

is there anyone i can put on a 22/34 combo? if so, can anyone point the way?


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

You'll likely need a different front-d to go with the triple.

Check the shifter / manual - it is possibly switchable to 3x mode if you want to, but will work as is if you are only using 2x on the new cranks.

_Sent from my brain using neurons fueled by glucose_


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## SpeedyChix (Apr 17, 2005)

bluesaint7 said:


> hi all,
> 
> i have a new setup with:
> m980 xtr 2x10 26/38 and 11-36 xt cassete rear and xt m780 direct mount FD
> ...


Are you running the XT shifters? If so, the front works with both 2 and 3 via scores (turn).
Smallest front Shimano crank ring is a 24 (as they added the teeth on the cassette).


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## bluesaint7 (Nov 5, 2012)

bear said:


> You'll likely need a different front-d to go with the triple.
> 
> Check the shifter / manual - it is possibly switchable to 3x mode if you want to, but will work as is if you are only using 2x on the new cranks.
> 
> _Sent from my brain using neurons fueled by glucose_


I apologize for not being clear, I meant if I am able to simply buy the 24t inner chainring from the triple version and replace my 26t inner from the double?

Since shimano said something about AE version (triple) and AH version (double)


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## doismellbacon (Sep 20, 2007)

My parts & situation are slightly different, but might be helpful. I'm running 10sp dynasys on a 9sp M770 (XT) crank, I've used both 9 & 10sp small rings in sizes 22, 24, 26. All worked flawlessly matched with a 9sp 36T shimano ring.


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## bluesaint7 (Nov 5, 2012)

doismellbacon said:


> My parts & situation are slightly different, but might be helpful. I'm running 10sp dynasys on a 9sp M770 (XT) crank, I've used both 9 & 10sp small rings in sizes 22, 24, 26. All worked flawlessly matched with a 9sp 36T shimano ring.


Thanks! that's helpful. i'm looking at 9spd rings, and there are AA and AB types, what does those mean and are they relevant?


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

bluesaint7 said:


> I apologize for not being clear, I meant if I am able to simply buy the 24t inner chainring from the triple version and replace my 26t inner from the double?


I believe the BCD is the same, so I'd think it would work - but verify that the BCD is the same 64mm first.

It's not like you're asking for a dramatic change.

Worst case is a bit of front-d cage rub when you're on the granny and too far down on the rear cogs - but if you were that far down on the rear cogs you'd probably have been better served by upshifting the front anyway.

I'd spend money on it.


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## bluesaint7 (Nov 5, 2012)

thanks bear and doismellbacon. Since i can resell the M980 26/38 combo, i elected to just buy the M980 24/32 combo off the triple and a bbg 104bcd 32t bashguard.


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## gelo (Nov 10, 2012)

*My 3x9 to 2x10 conversion experience*

I recently converted to 2x10 buying parts from eBay and Jenson.

Parts acquired:
10 speed shifters (slx), 10 speed cassette (slx), 10 speed chain (slx), 10 speed long cage RD (xt). Bash guard (race face) and 36t chainring (slx). 24t granny (xtr) but was never used because the spacing was too wide between the 36t and 24t, so I stayed with the original deore 22t. And a Blackspire chain tensioner

What I learned:
Xtr granny rings will not have the right spacing to fit on a deore crank. Maybe you can't mix xtr chain rings with lower level cranks. Also the xtr ring sits way too close the blackspire chain tensioner, which causes the chain to rub on it.

Adjusting 2012 slx front shifter with my 9 speed front derailleur with the 2x setting is difficult to get precise shifting. Best to use 3x and adjust for granny and middle rings. The 2x setting is for cranks that use the big and middle ring. Also keep derailleur high as if you had a 3rd big ring.

So the conclusion is that I kept my stock 9 speed deore cranks and 9 speed front derailleur, while I used 10 speed parts and 9 speed specific chainrings. Shorten the chain. Hopefully I can trade in the xtr chainring that I got from jenson for something useful. So my current gear setup is 36/22 front and 11-36 rear. Shifts are good except when I'm on the middle ring and 36t rear, and if I want to upshift, the 36t cog rubs on the inner rear derailleur cage. I adjusted the b screw as far as possible (just enough to turn top pulley) but it still rubs on some ocassions.


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

Might just need a longer b-tension screw:
- Cassettes from Harris Cyclery

I used a 16mm long one on my CX bike to get the RD to clear the 36t cog.


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## gelo (Nov 10, 2012)

Thanks, that is a viable solution.


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## jesse101 (May 23, 2011)

shiggy said:


> The crankset does not care what the cassette and RD are.
> 
> People have been using 10-speed chains on 9-speed drivetrains. You should be fine.


this is great news..i generated an order for a XT rear derailleur, 10 speed cassette, 10 speed chain and one LX 10 speed rear shifter..and my grand total was 220 bucks..that makes it worth changing over..however my only gripe is weight..the 10speed addition will add weight, and i am not too sure if the extra gear is worth changing to. but that might convince me to try a 1X10 setup. choices..:madman:


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## esilvassy (Jul 25, 2006)

*new 2013 shimano rear deraileurs with SRAm 9 speed shifter*

so there were people mixing Sram 9 speed shifters with the XTR M985 shadow plus rear derailleur. I saw one pic of a spacer on the cable bolt for that setup.
Anyone try any of the 2013 versions yet? XTR M986 or XT M786 shadow plus?

After my Moab trip I would really like to try a clutch style derailleur, and the experiment with an XT level would be cheaper.


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## ryguy135 (Sep 24, 2010)

Only difference between the 985 and 986 is the direct mount mounting style, so they will work with 9 speed SRAM shifters too.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

Is the cable bolt spacer pictured many many pages ago a required modification to allow Sram 9 spd shifter use with a Shimano Shadow plus RDR, be it XT or XTR?

I too really want to use a clutched rdr, but want to sick with 9 speed system otherwise.

My current set up is X9 9 speed shifter, XTR 970 11-34 cassette, X9 short cage 9 spd rdr, and running 1x up front.

How difficult would it be to exchange the aforementioned sram rdr for a XT RD-M786?? I'm totally comfortable tuning and adjusting matching components but don't want to get into a finicky gray area of constant readjusting- I hate shifting issues!


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## Stevoo (Mar 9, 2007)

Yes, SRAM 9-speed shifter is now mated to a Shimano 10-speed rear Deraileur with my adapter block. You can use any level of 10-speed Shimano rear deraileur you would like. I use the XTR Shadow Plus. Folks had posted that no modification was needed with this mix n match but I found that it was close but no cigar so I developed a solution. 

I also hate shifting issues. Went to the Shimano rear dearaileur just for that reason.

It has been rock solid since original installation. I have yet to adjust it and it is even on a tandem. 

Happy trails.

Steve


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## beston (Sep 27, 2008)

Thanks for the advice on this thread guys. 

I just wanted to post that I'm successfully using a SLX 10 speed crank and FD with a 9 speed chain and 9 speed XTR m965 dual control shifter. With the deals at Jenson right now, it seemed more cost effective to buy a new crankset rather than replace a chain ring on my m960 crankset.

So far, I haven't noticed any deficiencies in shifting or chain rub. 

At some point, I will likely swap in a 10 speed chain as it seems that it works with 9 speed cassettes and should reduce the likelyhood of chain rub.


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## plstrns (Sep 18, 2011)

I need a slide rule for this thread 

I have a 9 spd 36 x 22 crank, 3x 660slx shifter and a ten speed chain/ rear.

I think any mountain 2x9 or 10 FD will work, I've been using a 665 derailleur with a 9 spd but haven't tried it with a dynasys chain yet. What works best for a 10 speed conversion in your opinion? Best shifting, any chainstay or tire clearance issues you've had?

I'll need to switch to a high mount anyway, so any info is appreciated 
Thanks


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## Uaisei (Dec 26, 2012)

*crank help*

I bent my Shimano M-552, 24/32/42 crank and I want to change it. Is it possible to change 24/32/42 to an 24/32/44?


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## bosbik (Aug 29, 2011)

a completely noob question...will the deore 10speed crank work with an 8 speed cogset and shifters?


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

Uaisei: yes, you may need to raise your front derailleur slightly to clear the bigger ring, maybe not. You should also make sure your chain is long enough but it likely is. Check sheldonbrown.com or the Park Tools web site for how-to info.

_Sent from my brain using neurons fueled by glucose_


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## ExiTeYeS (Dec 29, 2012)

I cant find other place to write thats why I am writing here my question.
I have SLX 9spd shifter 2011 the basic before this year 2012(so bad, I dont like the design)
SLX Cranks with 36T Dartmoor Sting sprocket
Shimano XT cassete 11-32 m770 incl. E13 LS1 chainguide
And derailleur Shimano slx medium cage for 9spd. Everything works fine. But occasionally I love to ride on stairs etc. and I saw Shimano Zee but 10spd 
My question is - can I update to Zee rear derailleur and keep the 9spd system and limit the cage for 9spd like 9spd derailleur for 8spd system? 

Sorry for my english but this is my first post in english forum. 
The other funny think is that now I'll search if someone else asked question like this.

Now when I read some sentences here, I understand that my idea for 10spd zee derailleur aint gonna work well with 9spd shifter.


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## plstrns (Sep 18, 2011)

If Zee RD's are the same as SLX/XT then you can, but only with SRAM 9 spd shifters.


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## potahal (Aug 12, 2010)

Stevoo said:


> Someone wanted pictures. Here is the spacer needed to allow Shimano 10-speed rear derailleur to play nice with SRAM 9-speed trigger shifter.
> Not sure how to post an image so here is a link to them if you want to see.


This looks great, I too want to use a new clutch derailleur but don't want to go down the whole 10 speed route, and have a 9-speed Sram shifter lying around. Could you please post the thickness of the spacer you have machined.
Thanks,
Pete


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## Makoto (Sep 10, 2007)

My 9 speed drive train was worn out and needed to be replaced. I took the opportunity to go 10 speed for the clutch system. I purchased an XT cassette, XT chain, XT Shadow Plus Rear Mech., and XT 10 speed shifters. I know the OP states that 10 speed front shifters will work w/ a 9 speed front mech. and 9 speed cranks, but I cannot get my XT 10 speed front shifters to properly shift my 9 speed front mech. Has anyone else been able to do this successfully? If so, do you have any pointers? I do not believe the 10 speed front shifters pull enough cable to properly shift my 9 speed front mech. Oh and I'm running 24/36 w/ a bash guard.


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

I am using 2012 xt shifter with 2012 x.0 2x front derailleur, with the shifter in 2x mode, with 24/36 gearing.

When I had the xt 3x front-d I had to use the shifter in 3x mode ... It was like the cable pull for inner-middle was different than middle-outer or 2x. Using the 2x front-d with the 2x mode works great

In all cases I have been using xt 3x cranks with only inner-middle rings.

_Sent from my brain using neurons fueled by glucose_


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

That's my experience as well, if you are using a 9-speed 3 ring crank (with or without a bash guard), set the XT shifter to 3x and make sure you shift all the way into the small ring on the shifter; use the FDR limit screws to avoid the bash guard (which you may have already done with your previous setup). I am using this setup right now and it shifts as good as my 9 speed did.
From what I understand, the mode converter basically uses the middle and top ring setting where the cable pull is less to work with a 2X crank.


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## Makoto (Sep 10, 2007)

bear said:


> I am using 2012 xt shifter with 2012 x.0 2x front derailleur, with the shifter in 2x mode, with 24/36 gearing.
> 
> When I had the xt 3x front-d I had to use the shifter in 3x mode ... It was like the cable pull for inner-middle was different than middle-outer or 2x. Using the 2x front-d with the 2x mode works great
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. Much appreciated.



RSabarese said:


> That's my experience as well, if you are using a 9-speed 3 ring crank (with or without a bash guard), set the XT shifter to 3x and make sure you shift all the way into the small ring on the shifter; use the FDR limit screws to avoid the bash guard (which you may have already done with your previous setup). I am using this setup right now and it shifts as good as my 9 speed did.
> From what I understand, the mode converter basically uses the middle and top ring setting where the cable pull is less to work with a 2X crank.


Thank you for your response. I will report back after giving your tips a go.


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## Makoto (Sep 10, 2007)

bear and RSabarese, thanks for your help. My front shifter/derailleur issue in now resolved!


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## miguel3812 (Jan 11, 2013)

*What about this 10/9sp MTB mix*

[Hi,
I've read some of your replies and I was wondering if you can help me.
I have an LX 9sp shifters with a 10sp crankset 10sp and I am changing the remain parts. I was thinking of front and rear derailleur cassette and chain of 9sp. Is this the correct way of doing it?
Regards,
Miguel


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## Coopie (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm in need of a new rear der. Can I use a new Shimano 10spd rear with a 9spd set up? Shifters, chain and cassette.


Thanks


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

Coopie said:


> I'm in need of a new rear der. Can I use a new Shimano 10spd rear with a 9spd set up? Shifters, chain and cassette.
> 
> Thanks


Nope the RD cable pull per gear change is different between 9sp and 10sp. So either get a new 9sp RD if you want to keep the rest of the drive train in 9sp form, or upgrade everything to 10sp. Or if you sort of cheat by running 10sp road shifters + 10sp cassette and chain w/ 9sp FD/RD like I did on my bike.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Has anyone run a 10 speed crank with a 9 speed rear cassette and a 9 speed chain? I have a XT FC-M780 that I want to run with a 9 speed chain. I know this is not optimal but I am trying to use what I have. My project is pretty unusual.

Edit: Sorry boys, looks like I should have read more. Looks like this question has already been answered. Anyway I will give it a try.


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## cyberavner (Sep 27, 2011)

Coopie said:


> I'm in need of a new rear der. Can I use a new Shimano 10spd rear with a 9spd set up? Shifters, chain and cassette.
> 
> Thanks


Apparently it's possible to modify a Shimano 10 speed RD to work with a 9 speed setup.

This German guy is offering the conversion service:

bikemarkt.mtb-news.de/article/68708-umbau-shadow-plus-auf-9-fach-kettengluck-2-0]Umbau Shadow Plus auf 9-fach: Kettenglück 2.0 - Artikelansicht - Bikemarkt - MTB-News.de


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## Coopie (Dec 2, 2005)

Thanks guy. Thought rear der were consider "dumb" components, but. With the bigger range of a 10spd drivetrain guess it would take more cable. Looks like I'm saving for a while longer. Lol


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

X0 *9* speed Rear Derailleur + XT *dynasis* shifter, cogset and chain = Working drivetrain!


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## zuzu27 (Nov 27, 2012)

Here's the gear that I recently installed on my 2008 Kona 2-9:
-2013 Shimano SLX M670 Shifters
-2013 Shimano XT Shadow Plus RD-M786 rear derailleur (medium cage)
-Shimano XT FD-M780 (2x10) front derailleur
-Shimano SLX 10-speed cogset 11-36
-Shimano SLX HG74 10 Speed MTB Chain
-Truvativ AKA 24/36 2.1 GXP 9-speed crankset w/ bashring

Everything operates great...shifting is sweet, but....
Here's my problem...when in the 36 chainring in front and the 36 cog in back...I'm getting a very extreme chain angle and some chain rub while under power...it doesn't sound or look good. My understanding is that the Truvativ AKA 2.1 crankset has a 51mm chainline. Judging from looking at the chainline from the rear of the bike, it definitely looks like the crankset needs to move inboard the equivalent width of a one cog jump.

....so I'm now considering replacing the Truvativ AKA with the Truvativ X9 GXP 2x10 crank. It's nearly identical to the AKA crank. From what I could find online, it looks like the Truvativ X9 2x10 crank has a 49.5mm chainline.

Do you think this is the right solution to the problem? Will a 1.5mm chainline difference do the trick?
For reference I noticed the 2013 Shimano SLX & XT 2x10 crank has a chainline of 48.8mm.
So we're talking about a difference of 0.7mm between the Truvativ X9 crank and the Shimano SLX/XT, and a difference of 2.2mm between my existing Truvativ AKA and Shimano SLX/XT.

Has anyone else tried a similar setup?
I know Specialized has a few new 2013 models...Stumpjumper and Carve....that use SLX shifters w/ XT rear derailleur, but they're using a SRAM cogset, KMC chain, and a "custom" SRAM crank....the crank looks to be based on SRAM/Truvativ's X7 2x10 crankset...therefore it's chainline is most likely 49.5mm.

My only reason for not jumping on an XT or SLX Shimano crankset is simply aesthetics...I just like the looks of the Truvativ crank w/ bashguard.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
JP


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

zuzu27 said:


> Here's my problem...when in the 36 chainring in front and the 36 cog in back...I'm getting a very extreme chain angle and some chain rub while under power...it doesn't sound or look good.


This is not good indeed, but is expected, normal behavior from all modern 2-derailer, full-cassette drivetrains. They are not supposed to be operated for extended periods with such chain angles. Some FD cage rub is allowable in such extreme gear combinations.

On a GXP crankset you can move chainline inboard a little, e. g. by putting an extra 2.5 mm spacer under the NDS BB cup. There's some excess spindle length which allows for that.



zuzu27 said:


> Here's the gear that I recently installed on my 2008 Kona 2-9:
> -2013 Shimano SLX M670 Shifters
> -2013 Shimano XT Shadow Plus RD-M786 rear derailleur (medium cage)
> -Shimano XT FD-M780 (2x10) front derailleur
> ...


I'd choose some of these parts the other way around: XT shifters, but both SLX derailers.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Apologies if I am missing the definitive information in this thread: is cable pull different for Shimano 10sp and 9sp _front_ derailleur.

I thought about experimenting with a 10sp front XT shifter I have unused after switching one bike to 1x10, with 9sp SLX-667 derailleur and double crank (that I have troubles adjusting perfectly due to frame clearances). If it is different - will it move more, or less? Since I would need it for two rings only - moving slightly will help me, slightly less, would not.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

The pull is the same. The only thing I'm not 100%sure of is whether you need to set the 2x/3x mode to 2x or not. I'd think you need it to 3X which is like you older 9-speed shifter. I'd try that first, if it does not shift right, try the 2x mode. The 2X is set and holds the shifter in the middle and big ring bypassing the granny.


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## mvi (Jan 15, 2004)

So dyna sys 10 cassette minus the 11t should work with SRAM 9 gripshifters + dyna sys+ 10 rear derrailleur?


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## Woodsy (Aug 15, 2005)

Stevoo said:


> Someone wanted pictures. Here is the spacer needed to allow Shimano 10-speed rear derailleur to play nice with SRAM 9-speed trigger shifter.
> Not sure how to post an image so here is a link to them if you want to see.
> https://picasaweb.google.com/GooselawAndGray/Deraillleur?authkey=Gv1sRgCMuH1KG5tuykhAE#[/


Hi, incredible work here Stevoo! Was it the outboard displacement of the anchor (along with cable-exit angle) that made the difference? Ie, the anchor point being laterally further from the wheel? Or is some fore/aft displacement helpful too? Thanks for this beautiful craftsmanship!! :thumbsup:


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## dudukovic (Nov 27, 2009)

Does anyone tried 10speed road chain on mtb drivetrain. I want to put a shimano 105 5701 road chain on 2x10 mtb drive train. 
Shimano says that can not be mixed road and mountain bike components!


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## Woodsy (Aug 15, 2005)

Potahal, have you tried this yet? I'm going to give it a try this week or next - wondering if you/anyone has more advice to add about cable clamping adjustments, angles, fore-aft offset? (I tried contacting Stevoo for more details but he must be spending all his time riding!)



potahal said:


> This looks great, I too want to use a new clutch derailleur but don't want to go down the whole 10 speed route, and have a 9-speed Sram shifter lying around. Could you please post the thickness of the spacer you have machined.
> Thanks,
> Pete


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## mojak (Sep 27, 2005)

cobym2 said:


> X0 *9* speed Rear Derailleur + XT *dynasis* shifter, cogset and chain = Working drivetrain!


hi, do you have to change any screws on the 9spd XO rear d to make it work with the XT 10spd dynasis system?


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## cyberavner (Sep 27, 2011)

*New hack*

Got the following combination to work:

9 speed cassette
10 speed Shadow+ SLX RD
10 speed SLX shifter

Worked on the stand with both 9 speed and 10 speed chains. Rode it around the yard but haven't gone on a series ride yet.

To make it work all I had do was to attach the cable to the RD a little differently:

















Avner.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Very interesting, please post ride reports.. do you find shifting worse or the same as the typical full 10-speed Shimano setup?


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## Woodsy (Aug 15, 2005)

Nice work cyberavner! Very interested in post-ride reports too!


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

Nice find Cyberavner! Sounds like some of the old tricks still work with using different cable routing to provide different indexing.

Derailer Adjustment - scroll to the bottom for alternate cable routing.


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## cyberavner (Sep 27, 2011)

Sorry for the long delay.
After a few rides I can say that the mod is working.
The shifting is not quite as good as stock, but I believe that it is caused by my custom 11-42 cassette and the extreme B tension screw adjustment it requires.
This cassette is much harder to get to shift right than a stock one because of the large diameter 42 tooth cog and the big tooth count difference between adjacent cogs.

Avner.


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## toot334455 (Apr 4, 2013)

so Can I do a x.7 10 spd rear deraliuer with a xtr 10 spd shifter?


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## Panzaz (Oct 12, 2009)

Ok So I had a 9 speed XTR Drivetrain with a Deore Sp Crankset, Can I Change use a 10 sp Front Derrailleur with a 9sp Chain?


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## deematic (Dec 28, 2007)

Stevoo said:


> Yes, SRAM 9-speed shifter is now mated to a Shimano 10-speed rear Deraileur with my adapter block. You can use any level of 10-speed Shimano rear deraileur you would like. I use the XTR Shadow Plus. Folks had posted that no modification was needed with this mix n match but I found that it was close but no cigar so I developed a solution.
> 
> I also hate shifting issues. Went to the Shimano rear dearaileur just for that reason.
> 
> ...


Do you have a pic of said block?

I'm currently running sram 9sp xo grippers and want to upgrade to the shimano clutch rear.

thx


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## Stevoo (Mar 9, 2007)

Yes, I posted a picture on I think page 16 of the Thread: Dyna Sys 10 speed compatability with 9 speed (Shimano systems dated 4-2-12.


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## thegoodword (Jul 25, 2008)

*Slightly Off Topic*

In the end my 9 + 10 speed shifter/derailure/cassette mix and match did not work as smoothly as I wanted. While I assume most folks are trying to get it all to work together to save $, my goal was to get a 36 tooth rear cog on my heavy 9 speed full suspension bike (Niner W.F.O.) and start replacing worn out components on my hard tail. I found a heavy Shimano HG61 12-36 9 speed cassette. The extra easy 22/36 granny gear is exactly what I wanted and I did not have to change any of the 9 speed components. That cassette is heavy but the weight was not noticeable when climbing. As for my 26 hard tail, I just opted to ditch the nine speed altogether and bite the bullet for a new 10 speed XT drivetrain. Both of those options provided far smoother shifting than the combination of 9 and 10 speed components that I attempted to run.


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## miggy (Nov 25, 2008)

if I change my rear mech, cassette, chain, and rear shifter from 9 speed XT to 10 speed XT

will I run into problems?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

For the record, recently I managed to get the following combination of parts to kind of work: FC-M780, FD-M412 (!!) and a SRAM X.9 10-speed front trigger, with a 10-speed Wippermann chain.

I had to use big pliers to squeeze (cold set), in several attempts, FD cage so that it's able to work with narrower chain than it's supposed to. The outside facing part of the cage yielded. Shifting is so far so good.

And the story began with an attempt to mate a 445 mm chainstay 29er (typical value) with a triple crankset. Turned out there was no tire clearance against SRAM X.7 9-speed FD I was initially given to install on that bike (whole bike is a bunch of poorly matching parts collected in a failed attempt at color co-ordination). The FD-M412 that I hastily snatched at an LBS saved the day. FD-M780 is on order and I wonder whether is will give the necessary tire clearance.

This case led me to thinking that 29ers may be the true reason behind the quick advent of 2x10 drivetrains.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

miggy said:


> if I change my rear mech, cassette, chain, and rear shifter from 9 speed XT to 10 speed XT
> 
> will I run into problems?


My guess would be no, and I'd expect things to be okay, but sadly the only way to be sure is to try. FWIW, I'd be prepared to do this myself and would expect it to work. If you are patient enough to read through all the older posts I suspect other people have done this successfully.

Good luck with it!


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## NazZaR (Jul 1, 2013)

Hello, mates!
Recently, i decided to go to 3x10-speed setup instead of 3x9.

I have a 9-speed Shimano XT FC-M770 44-32-22 crankset. The question is - can i convert it to 10-speed just by changing the chainrings? I already have purchased 42t chainring from 10-speed crankset. Do i need to buy 32t chainring from 10-speed crankset, or it is the same as 32t on 9-speed version? Is the distance between chainrings same on 9 and 10-speed crank spider?

Thank you guys!


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## NazZaR (Jul 1, 2013)

Any suggestions?


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I have upgraded the crankset on my alpha bike from Shimano OEM 10 speed triple (dyna-sys) to Shimano XT 10 speed triple. I want to install the old Shimano OEM 10 speed crankset on my backup bike which is currently setup 1x9 with SRAM chain/cassette/shifter/rear derailleur. I plan on just using the middle ring (removing big and granny) on the Shimano OEM crankset so it will still be a 1x9 drivetrain, but using a 10-speed 32T front ring (and cranks). Seems to me like it would be no problem. Any input or anyone think it wouldn't be?

In other words, do 9-speed SRAM chains work fine on 10-speed Shimano chainrings?

Thanks.


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## blingman (Aug 6, 2011)

hi the 3x9 and 3x10 have the same offset chainrings but the 2x10 has a different chainline and chainring offset. the 10 speed chain will work perfectly on the 32t 9 speed ring and the 22t but if u change to a 24t u will need a 3x not a 2x version


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

blingman said:


> hi the 3x9 and 3x10 have the same offset chainrings but the 2x10 has a different chainline and chainring offset. the 10 speed chain will work perfectly on the 32t 9 speed ring and the 22t but if u change to a 24t u will need a 3x not a 2x version


You do not really _need_ that. Works well enough. Some combinations of 9sp/10sp chains, rings and offsets in front are just a bit more difficult to tune shifting wise.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

So, can I use an XT HG 94 10 speed chain with a 10 speed 105 and ultegra road drive train?


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## da peach (Oct 30, 2006)

Anyone wanting to use their 9 sp shifter with a new 10sp clutch derailleur, have a look at this!

For those that were interested in the 9-10 speed rear derailer adapters

I've seen the results, and they are good.


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## c-dale99 (Jun 23, 2005)

Just wanted to contribute to this thread. I didn't want to convert to 10 speed but I needed the xt plus rear derailleur. So I run 9 speed rear with 9 spd cassette, sram shifter, and cranks. I have the 10 speed chain and rear derailleur (with adapter). Everything works perfectly.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

I want to watch.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Is there a difference between spider spacing distance between 9 speed and 10 speed cranks?

I've reveiwed a lot of posts, probably not all, and seems the consensus is it works fine. 

I still have some great 9 speed cranks and BBs that I want to continue to use. The setup would be basicaly a 9 speed front (XTR shifter, XT front derailure, crank), and 10 speed rear (XTR rear shifter, XT rear derailure, cassette, chain).

As an aside, the cranks are Middleburns (RS 7 or 8) with a compact drive spider. Believe it or not, I'm using the same Crank Bros ISIS BB for several years. Years back I picked up a few more of those BBs for pennies as backups, even though now the original BB wont die.

Thanks.


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## blingman (Aug 6, 2011)

Miker J said:


> Is there a difference between spider spacing distance between 9 speed and 10 speed cranks?
> 
> I've reveiwed a lot of posts, probably not all, and seems the consensus is it works fine.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I can say the XT 770 crankset have the same arms for 9 or 10 speed just different ring sizes. 
But doing what u have said u will be fine, all 9 speed at the front 10 speed rear works good


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## big-ted (Oct 16, 2005)

da peach said:


> Anyone wanting to use their 9 sp shifter with a new 10sp clutch derailleur, have a look at this!
> 
> For those that were interested in the 9-10 speed rear derailer adapters
> 
> I've seen the results, and they are good.


Hi all. These are my spacers that I designed and had a friend machine up for me. Sorry, but I don't get on mtbr too much these days. If anyone wants one feel free to give me a shout: rob(dot)stead(at)gmail(dot)com.


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

> 4. Nine speed front derailleurs can be used with 10 speed front shifters, but do not work optimally if used with a 10 speed crankset. Nine speed front derailleurs and cranksets can be used with 10 speed chains and front shifters. A nine speed shifter can be used to shift a 10 speed dyna sys front derailleur.


So would I be able to use XT RD-M786 Shadow+ 10spd derailleur, Sham HG-62 cassette and KMC X10.93 chain with my Deore FC-M590 9spd crankset and Deore FD-M590 derailleur, or would I have to get a different front derailleur?

This would save me over $300 is true!

Edit: The KMC X10.93(10spd chain) is 5.88mm in width, were the X9.93(9spd chain) is 6.6mm in width, while the Shimano SLX CN-HG75(10spd) is 6.1mm in width. Will the difference of 0.72mm-to-0.22mm make a difference in the way the a triple ring capable, 9spd front derailleur will handle a 10spd HG compatible chain on a 9spd, triple ring crankset?


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## blingman (Aug 6, 2011)

pdxmark said:


> So would I be able to use XT RD-M786 Shadow+ 10spd derailleur, Sham HG-62 cassette and KMC X10.93 chain with my Deore FC-M590 9spd crankset and Deore FD-M590 derailleur, or would I have to get a different front derailleur?
> 
> This would save me over $300 is true!
> 
> Edit: The KMC X10.93(10spd chain) is 5.88mm in width, were the X9.93(9spd chain) is 6.6mm in width, while the Shimano SLX CN-HG75(10spd) is 6.1mm in width. Will the difference of 0.72mm-to-0.22mm make a difference in the way the a triple ring capable, 9spd front derailleur will handle a 10spd HG compatible chain on a 9spd, triple ring crankset?


hey,
the 9 speed front works fine with a 10 speed chain with xt i had this on my bike until i changed to 2x10


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

blingman said:


> hey,
> the 9 speed front works fine with a 10 speed chain _with xt_...


Thanks for the replay!

I'm not sure what you mean in the last part of your sentence, "with xt", do I need to get a 3x10 xt front derailleur to use with the 9spd crankset?


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## blingman (Aug 6, 2011)

pdxmark said:


> Thanks for the replay!
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean in the last part of your sentence, "with xt", do I need to get a 3x10 xt front derailleur to use with the 9spd crankset?


Hey sorry I meant to say the ramping on XT chainrings pick up the 10 speed chain and change very smooth, I don't know if the cheaper crankset will change as smooth but it will work


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

blingman said:


> Hey sorry I meant to say the ramping on XT chainrings pick up the 10 speed chain and change very smooth, I don't know if the cheaper crankset will change as smooth but it will work


I have the Deore M590 crankset(9spd Deore 48/36/28, no XT ramping) and FD-M590(3x9) and FS-m590(3spd Left shifter). The Fs-m590(3spd shifter[own it]) will work with the FD-M620(3x10~$22) mounted over the CR-m610(3x10spd 48/36/28). The rear end with right shifter M780 will have dyna-sys shifting, and the front gears and shifter wont. So I guess $130ish on my next check, in two weeks. I don't know how to feel about that!

This wouldn't be an issue had I not found the XT M786 Shadow+ 10spd for $78 in silver. That's much better than $110.

Edit: Well, just found an SLX M670 front package(crankset, front derailluer, 3spd shifter for $198. I know how to feel now and I think that solves this issue I'm having! Just need one more piece, XT m780 rear shifter.


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## blingman (Aug 6, 2011)

pdxmark said:


> I have the Deore M590 crankset(9spd Deore 48/36/28, no XT ramping) and FD-M590(3x9) and FS-m590(3spd Left shifter). The Fs-m590(3spd shifter[own it]) will work with the FD-M620(3x10~$22) mounted over the CR-m610(3x10spd 48/36/28). The rear end with right shifter M780 will have dyna-sys shifting, and the front gears and shifter wont. So I guess $130ish on my next check, in two weeks. I don't know how to feel about that!
> 
> This wouldn't be an issue had I not found the XT M786 Shadow+ 10spd for $78 in silver. That's much better than $110.
> 
> Edit: Well, just found an SLX M670 front package(crankset, front derailluer, 3spd shifter for $198. I know how to feel now and I think that solves this issue I'm having! Just need one more piece, XT m780 rear shifter.


hey, u could go for the SLX rear shifter they work just as good as XT.
those rd-786+ cost me alot of money also, they maybe cheap to buy but cost alot in other bits chain cassette shifter then f... it may as well do the cranks front D and shifter LOL
Good luck it sounds like u are going in the right direction.


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

blingman said:


> hey, u could go for the SLX rear shifter they work just as good as XT.
> those rd-786+ cost me alot of money also, they maybe cheap to buy but cost alot in other bits chain cassette shifter then f... it may as well do the cranks front D and shifter LOL
> Good luck it sounds like u are going in the right direction.


Thanks for the info on the SLX shifters.

I'm going to be a little OCD and match the rear models together; so, XT backend, other than cassette which will be Slx HG81 13/34(bought for $62). The front will be Slx entirely. Wish I didn't have to go this route, but it seem the less costly answer. If I can find the SLX shifters on the cheap, I may just buy a pair.

Thanks again!


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## blingman (Aug 6, 2011)

pdxmark said:


> Thanks for the info on the SLX shifters.
> 
> I'm going to be a little OCD and match the rear models together; so, XT backend, other than cassette which will be Slx HG81 13/34(bought for $62). The front will be Slx entirely. Wish I didn't have to go this route, but it seem the less costly answer. If I can find the SLX shifters on the cheap, I may just buy a pair.
> Thanks again!


just change the rear, leave the front and see how it goes i bet works just fine.


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## deematic (Dec 28, 2007)

subs


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Apologies if this has been covered, but searching for "road" and "STI" didn't yield much info.

I want to run drop bars with integrated ROAD levers (e.g. Tiagra, 105, etc). Gearing would be:

Sugino 26/40 MTB crankset (2x10)
SRAM 12-36 cassette (10s)

If I went with Shimano 10s road levers, I could use a 9s Shimano MTB rear derailleur, but it's unclear if the road levers/shifters would even work with a 2x10-compatible (MTB) derailleur.

Thoughts?


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

^^^I would like to do something similar; I was thinking of just going 3x8, but I really want the XT Shadow+(just got it in 10spd for $70). So I was thinking that one could get a 9spd XT rear derailleur and adjust the low stroke screw to keep the derailleur from having 9 gears, but someone mentioned that the spacing on the 9spd cassette is not the same as an 8 speed cassette, so when shifting the 9spd derailleur over a 8spd cassette, there will be shifting issues because the 9spd RD will have a shorter stroke than the 8spd RD. Though I found that I can't because the 9spd chain is to skinny for the spacing of the 8spd cassette, and the 9spd XT shadow+ will not fit a chain over 6.8mm, were an 8spd cassette uses a 7.1mm to 7.3mm chain.

I just wanted an 8spd Shadow+ because I find that 7.1mm-7.3mm chains are stronger than 6.3mm-5.1mm chains and I really don't need 30 gears!


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

MileHighMark said:


> I want to run drop bars with integrated ROAD levers (e.g. Tiagra, 105, etc). Gearing would be:
> 
> Sugino 26/40 MTB crankset (2x10)
> SRAM 12-36 cassette (10s)
> ...


Shimano road levers pull less cable for the front mech than their MTB levers do. This matters with triples, but you may have enough slack in the system for it to work with a double. Another option is to use this: Jtek ShiftMate Straight, or you could just use a Shimano CX-50 or CX-70 FD (or any other suitable road FD) which should work fine as long as it clears the chainstay. The CX mechs are available in top pull though, which may help.

As I understand it, the SRAM levers will work with MTB FDs, i.e., see the Salsa Fargo spec here: Salsa Cycles | Bikes | Fargo 2 Using SRAM also allows the use of a clutch type RD if that matters to you.

If you're going to use the Sugino ZX801D crankset any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated - I've been looking at this online since before there was ever a source and have still never seen one!


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

pdxmark said:


> ^^^I would like to do something similar; I was thinking of just going 3x8, but I really want the XT Shadow+ [snip]


If I can make any sense of what you've written, what you want to do is use triple chainwheels with an 8 speed cassette, but use a clutch type RD. If I understand it correctly, the Shimano DynaSys RDs use the same cable travel as the SRAM 8/9 speed RDs and shifters. That is, if you use a DynaSys RD with a SRAM 8 (or 9) speed shifter and a cassette with matching spacing, all should be well. Note however that I'm going on accounts in this thread and elsewhere, not on personal experience. See this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...spd-derailleur-sram-9-spd-shifter-866457.html


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

satanas said:


> Shimano road levers pull less cable for the front mech than their MTB levers do. This matters with triples, but you may have enough slack in the system for it to work with a double. Another option is to use this: Jtek ShiftMate Straight, or you could just use a Shimano CX-50 or CX-70 FD (or any other suitable road FD) which should work fine as long as it clears the chainstay. The CX mechs are available in top pull though, which may help.
> 
> As I understand it, the SRAM levers will work with MTB FDs, i.e., see the Salsa Fargo spec here: Salsa Cycles | Bikes | Fargo 2 Using SRAM also allows the use of a clutch type RD if that matters to you.
> 
> If you're going to use the Sugino ZX801D crankset any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated - I've been looking at this online since before there was ever a source and have still never seen one!


I expect the ZX801D to work quite well. I logged many miles on their OX601D road cranks, and the ZX801D's chainrings have even more machining and profiling (which should result in even better shifting). One thing's for sure--the fit/finish on the ZX801Ds is damn fine.

I'm tempted to go with SRAM shifters/derailleurs for this build. Salsa's Fargo 2 setup gives me some confidence of decent shifting. I'll see if I can't get some better info next week at Interbike.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Mark, if you could confirm or deny the crank clearance dimension shown in the diagram here: SUGINO it would be very helpful. Are the crankarms really 17mm thick at the pedal eye as implied?!?


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

satanas said:


> ^ Mark, if you could confirm or deny the crank clearance dimension shown in the diagram here: SUGINO it would be very helpful. Are the crankarms really 17mm thick at the pedal eye as implied?!?


Sure, I can do that. It may take me a few days, though, as I haven't installed them (yet).


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

satanas said:


> ^ Mark, if you could confirm or deny the crank clearance dimension shown in the diagram here: SUGINO it would be very helpful. Are the crankarms really 17mm thick at the pedal eye as implied?!?


Just checked, and they are 17mm at the pedal eye.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Yikes - I thought it had to be a misprint. Most other cranks (including XX) are much thinner, so I'll need to be careful when I go frame hunting...


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## Nasty1 (Sep 11, 2013)

Hi

I given this thread a speed read over last couple of hours and still no better off on finding out how to do what I want so thought I would just as well ask so sorry if its old news to you all but then it should be a simple one for ya.

I have a FUBAR'ed knee and can no longer push the big gears on my road hybrid. I need to continue cycling to keep my mobility and ROM so I would like to move to a 36t rear cassette.

My current set ups is full 10 speed Ultegra 6700 with flat bar shifters, this includes 6700 compact 50/34 chainset, front/rear durailleur and 12-30t 10 speed cassette.

I want to stay 10 speed and keep the 6700 chainset and flat bar shifters but change the cassette to a 10 speed 11-36t XT or XTR one with a MTB rear derailleur (preferably shadow plus mech). So my question is what parts do I need to achieve my setup and it all shift buttery smooth? I take it I am looking at a new rear derailleur and the correct chain..speaking of chains my normal preference is KMC.

Thanks for any advice and sorry for the repeat post if heard before.

Cheers


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

I read a lot of this thread, but am still confused about something; bike is used for both city, XC and moderate descents, change tires depending on what type of riding I'll be doing. I like the bigger outer ring for really flying through the city with the suspension stiffened up... 

Will the FC-M590-10 26/36/48 9-spd/10-spd* crankset and FD-M590(10-spd) be compatible with a SLX 10-spd cassette and XT RD-M786+?

*Thing is, several stores have the FC-M590-10 stated as 9-spd compatible, but also state that the "42t and the 48t outer ring models are 10 spd"; any truth to this?


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## blingman (Aug 6, 2011)

pdxmark said:


> I read a lot of this thread, but am still confused about something; bike is used for both city, XC and moderate descents, change tires depending on what type of riding I'll be doing. I like the bigger outer ring for really flying through the city with the suspension stiffened up...
> 
> Will the FC-M590-10 26/36/48 9-spd/10-spd* crankset and FD-M590(10-spd) be compatible with a SLX 10-spd cassette and XT RD-M786+?
> 
> *Thing is, several stores have the FC-M590-10 stated as 9-spd compatible, but also state that the "42t and the 48t outer ring models are 10 spd"; any truth to this?


Hi, a ten speed chain will work on 9 speed front, but what u need to do is make sure u don't go too big cassette wise. the sgs has a 43t chainwrap capacity so 26/36/48 =22t and a 32/11=21 total 43t. going any bigger on the cassette would destroy the RD.
keep all 9 speed front and all 10speed rear and should be sweet.


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

blingman said:


> 26/36/48 =22t and a 32/11=21 total 43t.


I have a SLX 34/11 cassette. I'll go with the 44t large ring. Thanks for the help!


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Nasty1 said:


> I want to stay 10 speed and keep the 6700 chainset and flat bar shifters but change the cassette to a 10 speed 11-36t XT or XTR one with a MTB rear derailleur (preferably shadow plus mech). So my question is what parts do I need to achieve my setup and it all shift buttery smooth? I take it I am looking at a new rear derailleur and the correct chain..speaking of chains my normal preference is KMC.


What you need is a 9 speed MTB rear derailleur. 10 speed MTB (including all DynaSys/Shadow+) will not work with road 10 speed shifters as the cable travel is different.

However, if you switch the rear shifter to DynaSys (check what's on special, i.e., Deore, SLX, Zee, etc) then you can use Shadow+; since you've got 50x34 rings at the front, a long cage RD is probably safer, but medium cage *might* work; short cage is out.


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## DarKmaN (Aug 2, 2007)

Can anyone help? going back to biking and recently got hold of a 2013 Reign FR frame. Just realized that it requires a direct mount FD... I have an all-XT 9speed drivetrain from my old bike but the FD is not direct mount. I have a 3-ring crank, which i converted to a 2-ring setup by replacing the big ring with a bashguard. 

My question is, if I want to keep my 9speed setup and minimize cost what direct mount FD should i get? Can i get away with a 10speed FD? If yes, should I get one for a 3-ring setup?

Thank you very much!


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

I've also got a full XT 9 speed drive train with bash guard and I'm using a XT M786 10 speed front derailleur. It works perfectly well but takes a bit of adjusting. You could also use an XT 9 speed, three ring direct mount and limit it's travel with the high limit screw. I chose to use the 10 speed derailleur because it afforded me more tire clearance. It has a shorter/smaller cage.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

DarKmaN said:


> Can anyone help? going back to biking and recently got hold of a 2013 Reign FR frame. Just realized that it requires a direct mount FD... I have an all-XT 9speed drivetrain from my old bike but the FD is not direct mount. I have a 3-ring crank, which i converted to a 2-ring setup by replacing the big ring with a bashguard.
> 
> My question is, if I want to keep my 9speed setup and minimize cost what direct mount FD should i get? Can i get away with a 10speed FD? If yes, should I get one for a 3-ring setup?
> 
> Thank you very much!


If you're using the granny and middle rings, you'll need a derailleur for a triple.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

MileHighMark said:


> If you're using the granny and middle rings, you'll need a derailleur for a triple.


No you don't.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Ronnie said:


> No you don't.
> 
> View attachment 832475


Yes and no. See:
http://www.raceface.com/comp/pdf/10 Speed FAQ.pdf

The OP can use a double, but not a 2x10 derailleur.


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## DarKmaN (Aug 2, 2007)

Ronnie said:


> I've also got a full XT 9 speed drive train with bash guard and I'm using a XT M786 10 speed front derailleur. It works perfectly well but takes a bit of adjusting. You could also use an XT 9 speed, three ring direct mount and limit it's travel with the high limit screw. I chose to use the 10 speed derailleur because it afforded me more tire clearance. It has a shorter/smaller cage.
> 
> View attachment 832468


thanks! finding a 9speed RD is proving difficult where i am from... Okay, so a 10speed FD is fine and i don't need shift to a 10speed chain to make it work and last. thanks again!


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

MileHighMark said:


> Yes and no. See:
> http://www.raceface.com/comp/pdf/10 Speed FAQ.pdf
> 
> The OP can use a double, but not a 2x10 derailleur.


Yes you can. That is exactly what I've been using for some time now.


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

Edit: Thanks for the help guys.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Read through the thread and my question didn't seem to be answered directly. Pretty simple...

Will a dyna sys XT 10 spd chain work fine with a normal M532 Deore crank? If I've read correctly, the dyna sys chain is mainly for the rear cassette. Will I have any problems here? I'm swapping out my rear end with a 10spd XT cassette, XT Shadow plus RD, and a XT chain (all dyna sys). My question is if the front crankset will work fine. The front crankset is not dyna sys. 

Thanks in advance!


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## blingman (Aug 6, 2011)

Will a dyna sys XT 10 spd chain work fine with a normal M532 Deore crank? If I've read correctly, the dyna sys chain is mainly for the rear cassette. Will I have any problems here? I'm swapping out my rear end with a 10spd XT cassette, XT Shadow plus RD, and a XT chain (all dyna sys). My question is if the front crankset will work fine. The front crankset is not dyna sys. 

"yip, it will work perfectly, until u just go "f... it" and change the front like i did, LOL


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

I've been running a 10sp chain on an old (early '80s vintage) triple crank for about 9 months now and it works fine. In fact it works better than the old 6/7/8 sp. chain I have on there before in that it does not rub when cross chained like the wider chain did. Also less trimming of the FD.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

4Crawler said:


> I've been running a 10sp chain on an old (early '80s vintage) triple crank for about 9 months now and it works fine. In fact it works better than the old 6/7/8 sp. chain I have on there before in that it does not rub when cross chained like the wider chain did. Also less trimming of the FD.


Cool, that's good to know. I think I was more concerned with the Dynasys part of the 10 speed chain. I'll have all Dynasys components in the rear but the front crank is not. Wasn't sure if the Dynasys chain was specific to dynasys components.


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

Poopshute said:


> Cool, that's good to know. I think I was more concerned with the Dynasys part of the 10 speed chain. I'll have all Dynasys components in the rear but the front crank is not. Wasn't sure if the Dynasys chain was specific to dynasys components.


Not sure if there are special shapes in that chain to match with ramps and pins on the DynaSys cogs/chain rings or not. The cranks I am using are old enough that they pre-date any of that shaped tooth stuff, so they are just smooth chain rings. I am also running 10sp chain and rear cassette with 9sp. front cranks on my cross bike and that also works great. Best shifting bike I have ridden (with 10sp-road bar end shifters).


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

*X Post Bump!*

If anyone has some pointers on this I'd appreciate it:

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...-9spd-shifting-shimano-10spd-help-883054.html

Thanks in advance-JMac


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Just wanted to post up that the rear dynasys components and dynasys chain work fine with a M525 Deore crank and 9-speed chainrings. No issues even while still utilizing the front 3-speed (10 speed ) derailleur.



Poopshute said:


> Read through the thread and my question didn't seem to be answered directly. Pretty simple...
> 
> Will a dyna sys XT 10 spd chain work fine with a normal M532 Deore crank? If I've read correctly, the dyna sys chain is mainly for the rear cassette. Will I have any problems here? I'm swapping out my rear end with a 10spd XT cassette, XT Shadow plus RD, and a XT chain (all dyna sys). My question is if the front crankset will work fine. The front crankset is not dyna sys.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

Not sure where to ask this; can SRAM and Shimano front shifter and derailleurs be mixed. I have an X4 shifter and need FD to work with it on 8spd; so I was wondering if the SRAM X4 left shifter would work with the Shimano Altus M310 FD?

Thanks in advance, hope it's okay to ask this here. If not, please direct me to the proper thread?


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## big-ted (Oct 16, 2005)

FYI, I now have more of the previously mentioned adapter blocks available, allowing the use of a 9 speed Sram shifter and a 10 speed Shimano clutch derailer. If interested, shoot me an email at rob[dot]stead[at]gmail[dot]com


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## HypnoT0AD (Nov 21, 2013)

This is rather large thread, but I couldn't see if anyone is running this setup:

Shimano Zee 10sp Rear Mech
SRAM x5 8 Speed shifter (1:1 actuation ratio)
8 sp chain and cassette

Would this work? Would the chain be too thick? I'm running a single ring up front, hence the Zee RD.

Would the 6mm spacer help with an 8sp setup or would I have to use trial and error.

Thanks


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Yes and no. See:
> http://www.raceface.com/comp/pdf/10 Speed FAQ.pdf
> 
> The OP can use a double, but not a 2x10 derailleur.


You can. It works. Its not meant to but it can be setup without issues.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

HypnoT0AD said:


> This is rather large thread, but I couldn't see if anyone is running this setup:
> 
> Shimano Zee 10sp Rear Mech
> SRAM x5 8 Speed shifter (1:1 actuation ratio)
> ...


No. 9 speed sram (not 1:10) can be made to work with 10 speed shimano, but 1:1 is very different from shimano's pull ratios. Go ahead and convert to 9 speed, and use the zee derailluer with a spacer.


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## applehead110 (Jul 25, 2008)

I just want to know if I can use my xt rd with a shimano 10 speed rear shifter


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

applehead110 said:


> I just want to know if I can use my xt rd with a shimano 10 speed rear shifter


No.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk


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## zacster (Feb 9, 2014)

First post here on MTBR, but a long time BF'er. 

I've made the mistake of buying 10sp parts (Shifter, Cassette, chain) as a quick and cheap upgrade to my commuter bike. Now, after reading about Dyna Sys and all the incompatibility with everything else ever made, I regret this decision.

My bike is an old Trek 7000, with 7sp LX on it, and the drivetrain is pretty worn out. I really started by putting a dynamo wheel in the front, and then also rebuilding my rear to match, so this looks and rides good. I wanted to upgrade the brakes, the old cantis needed pads and cables, never worked well. The thought was v-brakes as I've always liked the way they stop. Discs were out of the question. One change leads to another and that's where I ended up with 10 speed. I didn't realize how different it was. 

Before I just decide to scrap the 10sp parts by putting them up on eBay, would I be able to use just the 10sp shifter, cassette, derailleur, KMC 10sp chain, and still have it work with the old 7sp crank and front der? Or is this just too much of a kluge? It doesn't have to be perfect. And is 10sp just overkill anyway? This stuff looks like it was made for the trails and is totally unnecessary for the streets.


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## Valtra (Mar 6, 2011)

I have read the vast majority of this thread and either haven't found a set up the same as mine, or anyone who does never followed up with results. I want to use 2x10 cranks as a 2x9.

I just bought a new 2x10 Shimano XT crank with 26-38t chainrings. Will I run into problems with my entirely 9 speed drive train? Here's the set up:

-2x10 XT crank with DynaSys rings
-x.9 shifters
-Shimano Alivio front mech.
-x.7 rear mech
-SRAM P971 chain with Powelink <-----needs replacing anyway (too short)!
-SRAM 11-32t cassette

Appreciate any assistance!


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## plstrns (Sep 18, 2011)

Maybe.

If you have 3x9 shifters, your FD may work with the crank but you'll use 2nd and 3rd shifter positions. I have my doubts about this setup, you'll be far better off with a 2X FD and shifter. 
You'll need a ten speed chain. The rear shifter, der, and cassette will be fine.


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## Valtra (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I am using 2x9 shifters. So my options are:

Cheap: buy a 3x9 X.9 shifter and 10sp. chain
Expensive: buy a 2x10 shifter, 10 sp. FD, and 10sp. chain

If I go the expensive route, does it matter if I go with SRAM or Shimano for the derailleur? I prefer the lever layout of SRAM to the index finger trigger of Shimano


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## plstrns (Sep 18, 2011)

Im not familiar with specific 2x9 shifters. To my knowledge all 2x9's are triples that use only the middle and granny rings. Front shifter, crank and front derailliur are still 3X.
There are some specific FD's like Shimano 665/667's made for 36/22 cranks, and some cranks that came with 2 rings, but they are 3X designs modified for 2 rings. These are Doubles, not 2X systems. 

You have a 2X crank, and I'm pretty sure a 3X front der, and a 3X front shifter. As a general rule, keep double fronts with double shifter/ ders and 2X fronts with 2X shifters/ ders. 

If I'm correct about your parts the cheap way out is sell the new XT crank and buy a 3X. If you think I'm mistaken about your shifter and FD, post some part #'s for me to check out. 

FYI, Shimano has had thumb release for quite some time now.


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## Huusoku (Apr 12, 2011)

Hello MTBR,

I wanted to share that I just setup a medium cage M785 with my 39-tooth 8-speed Action-Tec USA heat-treated titanium cassette and XT v-brake/rapid fire M739 combo shifter. I had found this thread before making the decision to replace my old XT M739 derailleur and knew I'd just need to shorten the swing arm to work with my setup.

All that was needed was to make a cable adapter that moves the cable's attachment point closer to the pivot of the derailleur's swing arm. The piece of aluminum I made this from measures about 12mm wide X about 28mm long and was cut from some scrap 1/8" thick piece I had laying around:










The bend matches the angle of the original swing arm and moves the cable attachment point approximately 7mm closer to the pivot. It is difficult to measure but I think the original swing arm length is 30mm and shortening it to about 23mm is the sweet spot for my old & trusty XT M739 shifter:










Here is a top view showing the bend of the piece I made. The chain is a SRAM PC991:










Making this piece was very easy, took less than 10 mins with a hacksaw, drill and hammer. I slotted it so I'd be able to fine tune it to work just right. I was so excited to test it out that I still haven't removed it to clean up and round it's sharp edges.  Now that I know where the sweet spot is, whenever I do remove it to make it look better, I plan to slot a groove for the cable similar to the original Shimano design.

The new M785 is very nice. I really like the two-piece frame attachment design because the B-adjustment screw no longer wears into my precious USA hand-made frame and the massive increase in spring tension (even with the clutch switched off) means I can get rid of all my gimmicky chain guide crap. Hoping for no more dropped chains on my 1-by setup!

A few more things to note...
- When used as Shimano intended, it takes about 2 and 3/4 of clicks of my 8-speed shifter to change 1 gear.

- Yes with the shorter swing-arm there is more resistance at the shifter, but it's not as bad as I originally feared. Compared to before, it is a little bit harder to shift with the clutch switched off, and definitely shifts harder with the clutch on -- but even still it doesn't seem excessively hard to shift. I'm not worried about wearing out my right thumb or busting my shifter even with the clutch turned on. It's not that bad at all. For reference I am using an Aztec "Duracote" PTFE/Silicon coated cable.

- In case you are wondering, there is a pre-existing shoulder that the top leading edge of my adapter aligns to and prevents it from rotating about the original cable tie-down bolt. I just simply drilled the hole in my aluminum piece such that the edge would ride right-up against this shoulder and lock it in place. Once the factory cable bolt is tightened down, it is mounted entirely rigid/solid.

Here are some weight comparisons.

Old XT M739 with some super-old Bike Nashbar lower alloy gear:










New XT M785 minus my new cable adapter:










So it's a bit heavier, however, here is my old M739 combined with all the funky shift & chain tension "enhancing" parts:










I don't have the weight of the new derailleur with my cable adapter but it's possible I've saved a few grams in the end! 

Heading out to the San Joaquin River Trail tomorrow morning for a shake-down ride! Can't wait!

Happy trails,
BigMike


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## Huusoku (Apr 12, 2011)

First ride report!

Rode 15 miles and this derailleur is AWESOME. Here come some notes...

1. Shifting Speed and Tension at the Shifter. This thing is lightening fast at shifting, especially up-shifting. It is many times faster than my older XT unit. Downshifting is a bit more difficult because there is more tension due to the stronger springs and the clutch, but as I got more seat time in I was getting the hang of having to press my thumb a bit further to engage up a gear. Towards the end of the ride I nearly had gotten used to it. It shifts REALLY quick if you jam the shifter forward fast (lower thumb lever / downshifting). It hardly skips teeth as it engages the larger sprocket. Up-shifts (index finger), man oh man they are lightening fast. No hesitation at all. BAM next gear, BAM next gear, very nice.

2. Noise. With my old C.Guide my drivetain was already quiet but now without it + a stronger tensioned chain I get the same quiet operation but it's even quieter still because you don't have the sound of the chain dragging through the sleeve of the C.Guide.

3. Chain slap. I rode about half the trail with the clutch on and the other half off. To be honest I can't tell a difference in chain slap UNLESS you hit a really big bump. Even with the clutch off, I only heard the chain slap around once. It is miles better than my old XT.

4. Efficiency. This is biased because the bearings of my old derailleur gears were shot plus I had the drag from the C.Guide, but with the new setup I noticed straight away that there is less drag at higher cadences. It is much smoother. And when you back pedal the chain no longer "sticks" like before. It cycles through the drivetrain effortlessly.

If you've got an old derailleur, really there is no excuse not to spend the $70 to get this new XT unit. It is miles better than my old XT; I should have done this a few race seasons ago!!

Regards,
BigMike


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## always_last (Jun 7, 2012)

I read through this entire thread and couldn't find anyone trying this setup:

I'm currently running a full SRAM X9 9-speed drivetrain with gripshifters. My long term plan is to switch to SLX 10-speed when my current stuff wears out. I am very curious to try trigger shifters now, though, since I've been running gripshift pretty much since they first came out but I don't want to invest in any more 9 speed equipment.

So...has anyone tried a Dynasys 10 speed shifter with a 9 speed SRAM cassette and derailleur with the last shift position inactive? I know the lots of people are having success with SRAM 9 speed shifters/Dynasys rear derailleurs with slight cable mods, does that mean it will work the other way around?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Zombie thread!!

So, I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to update my old XTR M952 cranks to modern cranks. I can either spend stupid amounts of money on the correct super rare spider to make it all work, or I can spend the same money on a set of 10 speed cranks. 

This is going on a 29er, running 9 speed dual control shifters. 

I heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there isn't much difference in the ring spacing from a 10 speed triple crank from a 9 speed triple crank... like fractions of a millimeter. Close enough to work with 9 speed drivetrain up front. Good. I don't want to give up my 9 speed only dual control levers quite yet. 

One of my concerns was being able to keep my 30t middle ring, which is hard to do with 4 arm 104 BCD cranks. The newer 10 speed triple seems to come with 96/64mm bcd 4 arm, with 22/30/40t rings. Almost perfect. I have an Action Tech 20t ring that takes some filing of the spider to get the chain to clear, but that shouldn't be too much hassle. 

Chain Reaction Cycles has the triple XTs in 180mm (my size) for $175 shipped to the USA. Not bad. I might do that if you all think it will work for me. 

So, it seems this would just be a matter of replacing the crankset and doing the mod for the granny gear, amiright?


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Well, perhaps it is time for 11-10 drivetrain compatibility.


Anyone know will the new 11sp 9000 XTR rear derailleur work with 10sp shifters? 

I'd like to use the new derailleur to swallow the 10sp 11-42 cassette without b-screw strain, and invest in possible 11sp conversion down the line.


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

Bought an XT front derailleur to replace the Deore front on my 2014 Pugsley. Just found out the XT front d is a 10-speed (had no freaking clue front d's went by cassette type) and my Pugs is a 9-speed. Am I screwed? If it matters, will be running a 9-speed SLX rear d (which I also just ordered to replace the Deore rear), Microshift 9-speed shifters.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

rschreck said:


> Bought an XT front derailleur to replace the Deore front on my 2014 Pugsley. Just found out the XT front d is a 10-speed (had no freaking clue front d's went by cassette type) and my Pugs is a 9-speed. Am I screwed? If it matters, will be running a 9-speed SLX rear d (which I also just ordered to replace the Deore rear), Microshift 9-speed shifters.


It has nothing to do with cassette type. A ten speed chain is narrower than a nine speed. That said, I've been using a ten speed XT front derailleur with my nine speed XT front chain rings, crank and chain for years with no problem but it is a two ring specific derailleur. My cassette is nine speed.


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

Ronnie said:


> It has nothing to do with cassette type. A ten speed chain is narrower than a nine speed. That said, I've been using a ten speed XT front derailleur with my nine speed XT front chain rings, crank and chain for years with no problem but it is a two ring specific derailleur. My cassette is nine speed.


Perfect. Thanks man.


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## zacster (Feb 9, 2014)

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that if you go with a 10sp crank, you need a 10sp derailleur. All other combo's will work 7 with 8, 8 with 9, 9 with 8 etc... Only the 10sp with 10sp is different. The shifters OTOH, are compatible. A modern 3sp front shifter will shift 7, 8, 9, or 10, except the 10 will shift differently to match a 10sp chainring spacing. The cable pull is all the same. 

I myself am running 10sp dynasys front and rear shifters, with 7sp front derailleur and crank, and 10sp XT rear. Since I almost never go off the big ring I don't pay much attention to the front shifting. It does seem to work, but the old derailleur is probably a lot stiffer than a new one so it takes some thumb muscle to shift. The rear is a very light touch.


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

The changed cable pull between 9 and 10 Shimano MTN only applies to RD's. The only issue you may have with a 9 speed train and a 10 speed FD is a little chain rub a the extreme ranges of the cassette. FD's for 10 speed chains are slightly narrower than 9 speeds - 
FWIW I ran a 9 speed drivetrain on a previous bike, Chain reaction cycles sent me a 10 Speed XT/Ultegra chain mislabled as a 9 speed, I didn't notice when I installed it (although having to adjust the FD at the time should have clued me in to the fact that something was different) The shifting was no different to the previous 9 speed chain and I used it till it wore out.


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## zacster (Feb 9, 2014)

SimpleJon said:


> The changed cable pull between 9 and 10 Shimano MTN only applies to RD's. The only issue you may have with a 9 speed train and a 10 speed FD is a little chain rub a the extreme ranges of the cassette. FD's for 10 speed chains are slightly narrower than 9 speeds -
> FWIW I ran a 9 speed drivetrain on a previous bike, Chain reaction cycles sent me a 10 Speed XT/Ultegra chain mislabled as a 9 speed, I didn't notice when I installed it (although having to adjust the FD at the time should have clued me in to the fact that something was different) The shifting was no different to the previous 9 speed chain and I used it till it wore out.


While the cable pull is the same on 7/8/9 or 10 speed in the front, the movement of the derailleur is different with 10sp, it is slightly less because everything is narrower on the 10 speed crank. 7/8/9 speed cranks/front derailleurs work fine with 10sp rear and chains.

Bottom line is this: If you have a 10speed crank, you need a 10speed front derailleur and vice versa. If you have a 7/8/9 speed crank you need a 7/8/9 speed front derailleur and vice versa. The front shifters are all the same. This is regardless of what you have in the rear.


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

Not quite; how far the FD moves is controlled the shifter not the derailleur itself. So a 10 speed FD is going move the exact same distance as a 9 speed FD with the same shifter. The only thing that's different is that the FD cage itself is slightly narrower on a 10.


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## zacster (Feb 9, 2014)

No, that's not necessarily true either. The parallelogram can adjust the derailleur movement for the same shifter pull. Whether this is implemented or not in the case of 10 speed I don't really know. What I do know is that you need to use 10 with 10, even though the rest are mix and match.


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

Oh mighty MTBR forum members who know more than me, I have a stupid question.

I am running a 9 speed drivetrain on my 2014 Surly Pugsley (screw you Surly for using 9 speed). It consists of a Deore Direct Mount front derailleur (sorry can't find the model number), an SLX M662 rear derailleur, Shimano CS-HG61 cassette, and a SRAM X5 crankset. I am currently looking to replace the Microshift Thumbshifters with Shimano shifters. I don't want Deore though. 

I found a pair of XTR M970 9 speed shifters for a really good price and I'm wondering if they will work with my front and rear derailluers. I'm tired of spending money on parts only to find out they won't work with a 2x9 setup.

If they won't work can anyone tell me which shifters will? Besides the Deore shifters that are offered right now.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

rschreck said:


> I am running a 9 speed drivetrain on my 2014 Surly Pugsley (screw you Surly for using 9 speed). It consists of a Deore Direct Mount front derailleur (sorry can't find the model number), an SLX M662 rear derailleur, Shimano CS-HG61 cassette, and a SRAM X5 crankset. I am currently looking to replace the Microshift Thumbshifters with Shimano shifters. I don't want Deore though.
> 
> I found a pair of XTR M970 9 speed shifters for a really good price and I'm wondering if they will work with my front and rear derailluers. I'm tired of spending money on parts only to find out they won't work with a 2x9 setup.


They should work perfectly. The derailleurs are nine speed as are the shifters.

I've been using a pair of XTR M970 shifters for years with an XT M772 rear derailleur and an XT front. (Also don't remember the model number.)


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

Ronnie said:


> They should work perfectly. The derailleurs are nine speed as are the shifters.
> 
> I've been using a pair of XTR M970 shifters for years with an XT M772 rear derailleur and an XT front. (Also don't remember the model number.)


So it doesn't matter if they aren't Dynasys and the derailluers are? You may have just made my day, week, month.


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## zacster (Feb 9, 2014)

Why don't you want to use the Deore shifters? I bought my 3x10 Deore M591 pair with cables but no housing for $25. You won't find anything cheaper and they work just fine. I'm using them with XT front and rear. If you are running 9 speed you should be able to find those too.

It is easier to find 3sp fronts than 2x, but they are still readily available.

I just saw the post above. 10sp dynasys and 9sp are NOT compatible. Not just a little non-compatibble, but a lot non-compatible. The cable pull is completely different, as is the spacing. It just won't work.


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

zacster said:


> Why don't you want to use the Deore shifters? I bought my 3x10 Deore M591 pair with cables but no housing for $25. You won't find anything cheaper and they work just fine. I'm using them with XT front and rear.
> 
> It is easier to find 3sp fronts than 2x, but they are still readily available.


Because I can get a pair of XTR shifters that are pretty much new for twice the price you paid for your Deore shifters. =)


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## zacster (Feb 9, 2014)

What surprised me when I did my upgrade in January was how cheap you can find individual components and put together a full groupset for less than the whole, if you are willing to compromise on one or two parts. There really isn't much difference between the various levels on some of them.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

zacster said:


> Why don't you want to use the Deore shifters? I bought my 3x10 Deore M591 pair with cables but no housing for $25. You won't find anything cheaper and they work just fine. I'm using them with XT front and rear. If you are running 9 speed you should be able to find those too.
> 
> It is easier to find 3sp fronts than 2x, but they are still readily available.
> 
> I just saw the post above. 10sp dynasys and 9sp are NOT compatible. Not just a little non-compatibble, but a lot non-compatible. The cable pull is completely different, as is the spacing. It just won't work.


There are a few reasons to use XTR over Deore shifters. I always use XTRs when the rest of my drive train tends to be XT. They shift smoother and more precisely. Also they can shift several gears (up or down) with one movement.

SL-M970 shifters are nine speed:

http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/ev/EV-SL-M970-A-2777.pdf


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

Ronnie said:


> There are a few reasons to use XTR over Deore shifters. I always use XTRs when the rest of my drive train tends to be XT. They shift smoother and more precisely. Also they can shift several gears (up or down) with one movement.
> 
> SL-M970 shifters are nine speed:
> 
> http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/ev/EV-SL-M970-A-2777.pdf


That's what I am about to buy, 9 speed XTR's. So they will work. Awesome. Thanks everyone. Woohoo. No more thumb shifters.


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## zacster (Feb 9, 2014)

Ronnie said:


> There are a few reasons to use XTR over Deore shifters. I always use XTRs when the rest of my drive train tends to be XT. They shift smoother and more precisely. Also they can shift several gears (up or down) with one movement.
> 
> SL-M970 shifters are nine speed:
> 
> http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/ev/EV-SL-M970-A-2777.pdf


My 10sp Deore are plenty smooth, and do multiple shifts. Really, the difference between the different levels of gear isn't as much as it used to be. Usually the higher end will be a tad lighter, and the newest tech will be in the high level the first year or two and then trickle down. 10sp Dynasys has been around long enough that even the lowest level of it works really well.

For that matter, some will say that the Ultegra Di2 works better than the Dura Ace since it was trickled down, but improved in the process. And I have Chorus 10sp on my road bike and I couldn't see any reason to go Record.


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## TalMiz (Sep 17, 2013)

*Now I can say that Zee is working with 9 speed SRAM Shifter!*



















I successfully paired a Shimano Zee with 9 speed SRAM Shifter. It took a while to adjust the gears, but now it works great. Can't wait to try it on a Trail!


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## TalMiz (Sep 17, 2013)

A quick update. I succeed to get it work without the spacer. Working Great !!!


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## big-ted (Oct 16, 2005)

For anyone that wants one of the spacers to correct for the cable pull discrepancy between Sram 9 speed shifters and Shimano 10-speed deraileurs, I just received another batch of those previously mentioned in this thread. More info here:

For those that were interested in the 9-10 speed rear derailer adapters | Ridemonkey.com


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## singletrkmind (Feb 20, 2007)

Just ordered a spacer big-ted, thanks for providing these. Quick question for anyone. I read through this whole thread last week and can't recall if I read it but...

Any issues with 9 speed chain and the 10 speed RD in terms of clearance? Are the cages the same width?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

singletrkmind said:


> Just ordered a spacer big-ted, thanks for providing these. Quick question for anyone. I read through this whole thread last week and can't recall if I read it but...
> 
> Any issues with 9 speed chain and the 10 speed RD in terms of clearance? Are the cages the same width?


Are you using a 10 speed cassette out back? If so, you'll have issues with a 9 speed chain for sure. I can't comment on a 9-speed chain with just a 10 speed RD as far as clearance in the cage. Never tried it.


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## singletrkmind (Feb 20, 2007)

9 speed cassette. I'll be keeping everything 9 speed except for RD (hence the adapter).


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## labeda14 (Feb 8, 2007)

singletrkmind said:


> Just ordered a spacer big-ted, thanks for providing these. Quick question for anyone. I read through this whole thread last week and can't recall if I read it but...
> 
> Any issues with 9 speed chain and the 10 speed RD in terms of clearance? Are the cages the same width?


I just did this tonight! Sram X9 9 speed shifter, Sram PC-991 Chain, Sram PG-980 11/34 cassette, Shimano Zee freeride rear der.

I bought a longer pinch bolt and square nut. filed a groove in the nut for the cable. pretty excited that this worked. thanks to everyone who contributed to figuring this out. Oh and Big-Ted, those spacers are sweet!


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## big-ted (Oct 16, 2005)

singletrkmind said:


> Just ordered a spacer big-ted, thanks for providing these. Quick question for anyone. I read through this whole thread last week and can't recall if I read it but...
> 
> Any issues with 9 speed chain and the 10 speed RD in terms of clearance? Are the cages the same width?


Sorry, I really only swing by here from time to time as I tend to lurk on RideMonkey more often. Yep, that setup will work fine. FYI, I run 9 speed Sram chains through 10 speed Shimano derailleurs and no issues whatsoever.


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## Chewbacca_1 (Apr 23, 2015)

*9 sp. cranks, 22 / 36T rings what front derailleur?*



ljsmith said:


> From what I understand the front 10 speed shifter is identical to the 9 speed shifter. The difference is in the geometry of the front derailleur. The 10 speed front derailleur moves slightly less per shift due to the 10 speed crankset using thinner rings with closer spacing. You can interchange the front derailleurs, but they will be very difficult to adjust. A 9 speed front derailleur on a 10 speed crankset will slightly overshift each ring. A 10 speed front derailleur on a 9 speed crankset will slightly undershift each ring. What is interesting is that the right 10 speed shifter body looks totally different than the left. It is huge, and the lever looks totally different than the left.
> 
> Hello all, this is my first post here:
> 
> The Bottom line: match the derailleur to the crankset. If it is a 9 speed crankset, use a 9 speed front derailleur. If it is a 10 speed crankset use a 10 speed front derailleur.


I can confirm that the 10sp derailleur does not like the 9sp crank set. (I just thought the 10sp over shifts on the 9sp crank)

I upgraded from a 2008 Giant Trance X to a 2012 Giant Reign frame and (finally) went from 2x9 to 2x10. Since the Reign frame has a high direct mount I needed a new derailleur. So I got a 2013 or 2014 Shimano FD, and it worked like crap. So I got a 3x9 direct mount FD, and shifting is now close to perfect.

The problem I still have is that the cage is too short for the small 22t chain ring. Being a direct mount I cannot mount it any lower, even after filing the hole a bit longer. It will only stay contact free in the first 2 -3 gears on 11-32 cassette. I now saw that SRAM has 2x10 22/36 FDs, BUT that will give me the shifting problems again, right?

Is there any direct mount derailleur out there that will work with my 2008 XT crank with new chain rings? I don't care if Shimano or SRAM, I just want to avoid new cranks.

Is there an adapter available for FDs like Big Ted's for RDs to "convert" from 10 sp to 9 speed?

Thanks, Tony


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## HawkGX (May 24, 2012)

Old (and really long) thread, but seems to be the most relevant one to my situation so hoping I can find some answers here. 

I currently have an all 9-speed drivetrain on my 2013 Trek Mamba: Shimano Alivio Octalink 3x9 crankset (44/32/22), with a 9-speed cassette (11-34) and Alivio 9-speed shifters. 

Probably not ready to go to a 1x drivetrain, but considering an "upgrade" to a 2x system. Getting harder (it seems) to find 9-speed 2x cranksets so wondering how possible or troublesome it would be to get a new 10-speed 2x crankset mated to 9-speed cassette, derailleurs and shifters? 

I just started trying to do a little bit of my own wrenching, so a lot of this is still intimidating to me so I'm concerned that I'm looking to do an upgrade that's either (a) not really possible; or (b) can work but will be a little wonky on shifting, chain drops, etc.

Any actual experiences trying to do this changeover, or advice in general on whether to try this approach or go another route?


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## cyberavner (Sep 27, 2011)

Just remove the 44T chainring. You can replace it with a bash guard.
Why change the crankset at all?
If there is a good reason to replace the crankset, you can use a 10,11 or even 12 speed crankset, no problems mating any crankset to your 9 speed parts.

Avner.


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## HawkGX (May 24, 2012)

Again, I'm a novice at most of this so take that into consideration. but near as I can tell from looking my current crankset the big ring is permanently attached to the spider arms. I had the same thought as you regarding replacing it with a bash. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

HawkGX said:


> Old (and really long) thread, but seems to be the most relevant one to my situation so hoping I can find some answers here.
> 
> I currently have an all 9-speed drivetrain on my 2013 Trek Mamba: Shimano Alivio Octalink 3x9 crankset (44/32/22), with a 9-speed cassette (11-34) and Alivio 9-speed shifters.
> 
> ...


Not actually sure I understand what you are trying to achieve. Do you want to change your chain rings? You can have a 2 ring sytem by simply removing the big ring and replacing it with a bashguard. That is what I did for many years on a 9 speed system. I felt that I never used the big ring on my mountain bike and realy only lost two high ratios on the big ring. If you feel you would like to have a bigger high gear you could simply replace the 32T ring with one with more teeth.

One thing you will need to do is set your front shifter up for two rings.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

HawkGX said:


> Again, I'm a novice at most of this so take that into consideration. but near as I can tell from looking my current crankset the big ring is permanently attached to the spider arms. I had the same thought as you regarding replacing it with a bash.


I guess I was typing when you guys posted. What model is your crankset? I'm reluctant to believe that Shimano made a crankset that has to be thrown away when the ring wears out. Usually the middle and big rings are on the same bolts.


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## HawkGX (May 24, 2012)

As best I can tell, this is probably the stock crankset I have on the bike now: Shimano Alivio M430 Octalink Triple Chainset. The outer ring has a Mega 9 Drive Train label on it, and the middle ring is stamped with "Shimano SG-X". 

Doing an online search on this is kind of confusing. I've seen some info that would indicate it's a riveted chainring setup, but others posts where people said they replaced the outer ring with a bash (but don't say what they had to do to accomplish that).

Seems like a lot of confusion what should be a fairly simple task!


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

Here is a link to your crankset on Shimano's site:

FC-M430-L

And here is an exploded diagram:

http://bike.shimano.com/media/techd.../FC/EV-FC-M430-3065_v1_m56577569830707834.pdf

You can definitely remove the big ring and replace it with a bashguard. As suspected the middle and big rings are on the same bolts. Both have a BCD (bolt circle diameter) of 104mm. Here is an example of a bashguard that will work with your 32T middle ring:










https://bythehive.com/collections/replacement-parts-1/products/turbocharger


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## HawkGX (May 24, 2012)

OK... so it does sound like I can remove the big ring and replace it with a bash. If I choose to go the upgrade route, I guess my next question would be whether I'm limited to a 3x9 crankset as a replacement if I keep my 9-speed cassette Or would it be possible to install a 2x10 crankset and have it work sufficiently with my 9-speed shifters, FD and shifter setup?

I mean, I've found a Deore 3x9 crankset (Hollowtech II) that would be at least a slight upgrade performance wise (and maybe shave a little weight, but not much I think). But I'd still be dealing with a triple crankset where I never use the big ring.


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## Adventure-Biker (Feb 2, 2006)

*10 speed chain comparison*

10 speed chain comparison


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## chewaz (Aug 8, 2012)

Question: 
A Deore M610 10 sp Crankset will be compatible with a 8 speed set (cassette, FD, D, Chain, Shifters)?


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