# What happened to Wingnut packs?



## J-No (Apr 27, 2008)

Packing my Wingnut Hyper 3.0 for the commute to work in the am and I thought I would check to see if they have anything new.

www.wingnutgear.com turned up empty

I really like this pack.

Any info?


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

I checked their domain earlier today, and it shows an expiration date of March 20, 2012. Could be that they just forgot to renew it. When I called their phone number, I got voice mail--which is pretty normal. I left them a message about their site, so hopefully they'll get it back up again.

I hope that everything is OK--Wingnut is a very innovative and fun company, and it would really suck if they are gone. But I'm going to remain optimistic that it's just a temporary domain glitch until I hear otherwise. Hopefully I'll get a call back shortly!


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

I left them another message, and sent an e-mail to a non-wingnut.com address. Still nothing. I'll try some more on Monday...


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## Maadjurguer (Mar 22, 2008)

wow...thought I was going crazy last night when I went to go purchase another pack for the AZT300....hope they are not belly up...I lurve their gear.


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## J-No (Apr 27, 2008)

Toby, I see someone posted the same question on bikepacking.net around the same time I did. Strange coincidence. I had not commuted with it in a while and forgot how much I liked it.


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## Endomaniac (Jan 6, 2004)

I just got a new 2.5 from them last week. 
They make great stuff but are a little flaky. 
Id bet they either forgot to pay a bill or something.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Endomaniac said:


> I just got a new 2.5 from them last week.
> They make great stuff but are a little flaky.
> Id bet they either forgot to pay a bill or something.


Nobody from Wingnut has called me back or returned my e-mails. Since you just had contact with them, maybe try giving them a buzz to see if you have better luck reaching them? Thanks!


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## neil.beltchenko (May 29, 2011)

man it seems all these bikepacking company's are MIA! except for porcelain Rocket. I've email 5 company's and no one has gotten back to me! i know there is high demand but man its getting irritating!!


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## Fat Bob (Mar 5, 2004)

Wingnut is a one man show and makes the best packs IMO... tough to compete with Camelback. I contacted them 7-8 months ago to see if they'd do repair work on my Hyper 3.0, ended up fixing it myself but wish I had bought a new one just in case they are out of the business.... gasp!

Ok, just checked, site is back up and live, must have been a delay in renewing his domain.


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## huffster (Nov 14, 2011)

website seems to be up and working now


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

site not working for me.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

sherpaxc said:


> site not working for me.


It's working for me. Looks like they just renewed their domain name, which takes awhile to propagate over the Internet. I bet that you can hit it within 24 hours.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

sherpaxc said:


> site not working for me.


Try using a different browser.


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## fleetwood (Apr 1, 2009)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Try using a different browser.


Or try hitting refresh.

Good to see this back up and running. I just learned about Wingnut recently and was disappointed that I couldn't find any current information on them.

Anyone have any first-hand experience with the Adventure pack?


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

Got it working now. I own 2 different Wingnuts 2.5, 3.0. I used the 2.5 this weekend and after 3 days on the trail I found a weakness I'd like to see fixed with the harness system. I think it may have been done as I have an older one. I sent an email, but no reply yet. Essentially I'd like to see a better padded harness on the curve of the shoulders. The thin material tended to bind up on me creating some hot spots/pressure points on my back shoulders.


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## sfelter (Dec 19, 2006)

I really like Wingnut Packs. For me, the whole design concept works really well, with weight low on the back. The side pockets are awesome in that you can actually access them without removing the pack, and they do an amazing job of keeping the pack from 'flopping' back and forth, like so many packs do.

I used an Adventure Pack on a big bikepacking tour of the Kokopelli Trail and the Arizona Trail in 2010 and it was a perfect compliment to the common bikepacking setup. Just enough volume for the things that don't fit perfectly into either the framebag, handlebar bag or seatpack. We cooked each night, so I used it mostly as a stash-spot for kitchen stuff. And bagels...

I now use a Hyper 3.0 for day rides. Same awesome design elements, just smaller. Perfect for a rain shell, a bit of food, and a bladder.

I do agree with sherpaxc, however. I do wish there were a bit of padding in the shoulder/back harness area. I do occasionally get similar hot spots. I would also like to see some beefier zippers on the packs.

I know that Scott (owner of Wingnut) is not alone there. He has at least a few people sewing for him. Having spoken with him at least a year ago, it sounds like he has his hands in a number of different projects, of which Wingnut is one. Very nice guy, just a bit tough to get a hold of. 

Scott


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

I'm looking into having a harness made for my Wingnut. I love everything about the pack, but for sure I want an updated version of the harness. Give me the padding of the talon 22 with the design of the Wingnut and I'd be a very happy bikecamper.


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## D45yth (Jan 30, 2009)

For those mentioning that they would like padding on the straps...are you sure you're wearing the pack properly? Most of the weight should be carried on your hips/lower back, I thought that was the whole idea of them?


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

D45yth said:


> For those mentioning that they would like padding on the straps...are you sure you're wearing the pack properly? Most of the weight should be carried on your hips/lower back, I thought that was the whole idea of them?


Yeah, that crossed my mind too. I think of the Wingnut as sort of a large fanny pack with straps for stability. I really like the ventilated straps--I never get sweaty shoulders like I do with other packs!


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

I'm sure I'm wearing them correctly. While there isn't a lot of actual weight on the shoulders, the 3-d mesh that they use just isn't stiff enough for me and tends to bind up.


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## lost27 (Mar 31, 2008)

Has anyone seen the new osprey zealot? Looks like a good replacement for the wingnut.


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

lost27 said:


> Has anyone seen the new osprey zealot? Looks like a good replacement for the wingnut.


Bill, those packs don't even look the same in comparison (just a brief look on the website). The Zealot looks to be more like a traditional backpack. Also, I am not a fan at all of Osprey's use of that back netting on their packs. I've had one before and after a long day it rubs into your back. Druber had that same problem this past weekend with his Osprey.

I actually really like the looks of Camelbacks Ocatane pack, but it still sit's a bit higher on my back than I'd prefer. Zimmerbuilt Packs does custom work and I'm looking into having him build me one similar to the wingnut. It would be a bikepacking pack only though because as you know full well, the cedars out here will tear up a pack pretty quickly.


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## FoCo29er (Dec 5, 2010)

I used to have a wingnut pack. best pack i have ever used, hands down. I did have a zipper issue and sent it back to scott for some repair. It wasnt a huge issue and if I had known I would never see the pack again I would have never sent it back. Weeks turned to months and I just gave up and got an osprey pack. Its not perfect but its not far off. If wingnut gets back on top of things I will ABSOLUTELY buy more of their awesome product. I love supporting the smaller companies especially when they get a design so right.


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## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

I just received a pack I ordered...it took a little longer than I expected (10-12 days or so), but it showed up. They're still in business, but as someone said: a little flaky. They have the best design, tho.


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

I ordered up one on April 17th - will see how long it takes to get it  

Was hoping to have it by Monday but who knows 

Ed


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

Interestingly enough, I just got an email from them today. It was a reply to an email I sent on MARCH 27th!!!

Not sure what I want to do at this point. I love the product, have had one since 07, but I'm not sure I trust sending my pack in to them for a repair.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

I just heard from Scott (Wingnut owner) today. He says that things are back on track.


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

I heard from Scott as well this morning - says there was a material shortage but it should be back in stock next week. I'm ready to get my new bag 

Ed


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## NitroRC Ed (Feb 27, 2010)

Figured i'd update on this - my pack showed up on Friday :thumbsup:

Now to check it out and see how i like it - does look pretty nice and all so far though.

Ed


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

NitroRC Ed said:


> Figured i'd update on this - my pack showed up on Friday :thumbsup:
> 
> Now to check it out and see how i like it - does look pretty nice and all so far though.
> 
> Ed


Thanks for the update! Good to hear that they are shipping. I hope that you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine!


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## Baldy88 (Aug 27, 2006)

The site is still pretty flaky. 

I have a 2.5 and it just ripped below the zipper for the water bladder compartment. I'm guessing that it would be better if I just take it to a local place to get some heavy duty stitching done on it. I need it in 10 days for a big ride and I'm guessing that it won't get turned around in time. 

I really hope they can keep it together. I love their packs. It would be hard to go back to a Camel Bak or Ergon pack.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I like the Wingnut 2.5 that I have. The lower back position is great for keeping the weight off of my lame neck. 

My only quibble is that I've ripped both mesh wing pockets. Maybe they need to be made of a bit beefier material...or, I guess I should stop crashing!


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## Diamond Dave (Jan 12, 2004)

Anyone heard from Wingnut lately? I placed an order for a Hyper 3.0 a while back. No pack, plus their emails are bouncing, and the voice mail is full. I know they are a bit flaky, but just curious if anyone has received an order from them recently?


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## Fat Bob (Mar 5, 2004)

Diamond Dave said:


> Anyone heard from Wingnut lately? I placed an order for a Hyper 3.0 on Sept 28. No pack, plus their emails are bouncing, and the voice mail is full. I know they are a bit flaky, but just curious if anyone has received an order from them recently. I have an endurance race next weekend so my fingers are crossed.


That's a bummer. I absolutely love my pack and was >< close to ordering a new one, but you guys have me worried.

I have an Osprey that I've been using to give my Wingnut a break... while I'm getting used to it, it's no where near as good for my back as the wingnut. Hope they haven't been responsive because they're so busy with orders


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## Diamond Dave (Jan 12, 2004)

Finally received the pack I ordered in September. Took 2 1/2 months, but it got here in time for Christmas. Ho ho ho. :beer:


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah, Scott is a character. Trying to reach him about a repair, emails keep bouncing back. Anyone have any info?


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## Whambat (Jul 30, 2006)

rjedoaks said:


> Yeah, Scott is a character. Trying to reach him about a repair, emails keep bouncing back. Anyone have any info?


Same problem here. I tried emailing about getting an adventure pack for bikepacking, but just a failed delivery email was all I got. I love my hyper 3.0, best pack ever, even though mice in Moab ate away at my mesh pockets a bit. Nothing beats it. Osprey might be my best option now, hopefully they will just sell their design to someone who has interest in making it.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Neil... as a bikepacking supplier myself... I have to be careful what I say... a bit. There are a lot of flaky companies around in almost every capacity (bike, bikepacking, accessory, etc). Just look around the forums a bit. I don't mean to sound like I'm calling him flaky. Quite the contrary. However, as a small company I have to do almost everything (website, marketing, email, shipping, bank stuff... that's all before sewing & development, let alone going for a ride). My comment was meant more as sympathy/empathy than anything. 

Myself... I've spent the last week fighting a glitch in building a website and not sewing. Sadly, I still don't have a 'real' internet presence outside of Facebook/Etsy (look for SpoK Werks) and people who know me. In any case... if you're in Europe (the Euro/Dollar thing is a bit price prohibitive) I'd be happy to make something for you. I will say though, my feeling is that Porcelain Rocket is my example for how I want to be in a couple of years. Good, affordable, responsive and fun. 

Good luck with Wingnut.. They really have/had some interesting ideas. In fact, the new Inov8 running packs have a similar bladder and design.


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## Whambat (Jul 30, 2006)

Just saw on their website that their was a Feb 14th, 2013 post saying updates on their website coming soon
Wingnut Gear » New Content Coming Soon!


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## Bluechip (Feb 17, 2006)

How do these type of packs (low rider) work with the large seat packs like the Revelate bags? Does the pack hang to low and get in the way with each other or is there enough room? Thanks


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## Rockin (Apr 29, 2004)

Bluechip said:


> How do these type of packs (low rider) work with the large seat packs like the Revelate bags? Does the pack hang to low and get in the way with each other or is there enough room? Thanks


Not an issue.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Just ordered a Wingnut Pack. **fingers crossed** I'll post an update on what happens in terms of delivery time.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I finally received acknowledgement from Scott about my warranty replacement. So I am waiting too.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Bluechip said:


> How do these type of packs (low rider) work with the large seat packs like the Revelate bags? Does the pack hang to low and get in the way with each other or is there enough room? Thanks


Wingnut packs are totally adjustable for height. It you had it low enough to interfere with a seat bag, it would hang up on the back of saddle if the seat bag was not there.


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## islander (Jan 21, 2004)

Put in my Hyper 3.0 order on May 8th. Haven't heard a peep.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Bluechip said:


> How do these type of packs (low rider) work with the large seat packs like the Revelate bags? Does the pack hang to low and get in the way with each other or is there enough room? Thanks


I've used both together and had no interference issues.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

vikb said:


> Just ordered a Wingnut Pack. **fingers crossed** I'll post an update on what happens in terms of delivery time.


Got an update on my pack. It's in the build process and should be done in a week or so. :thumbsup:

I'm cool with waiting as long as I know it's workin its way to me.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Are there any other packs that have a similar design to the WN Adventure Pack? I like the having the weight down low like a hybrid backpack/fannypack.


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## farley (Feb 17, 2004)

vikb said:


> Are there any other packs that have a similar design to the WN Adventure Pack? I like the having the weight down low like a hybrid backpack/fannypack.


Mountainsmith's lumbar packs paired with their Strappettes carry similarly to the Wingnuts.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

farley said:


> Mountainsmith's lumbar packs paired with their Strappettes carry similarly to the Wingnuts.


+1 thanks. :thumbsup:

I also found the Zimmerbuilt Pack which looks nice. 










HalfPack 2.0 - ZimmerBuilt


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

vikb said:


> Just ordered a Wingnut Pack. **fingers crossed** I'll post an update on what happens in terms of delivery time.


Got my WN Adventure Pack today. Looks good. Just waiting for some less wet weather to get out and use it.

The order to delivery timeframe was looooooong...so be ready for that and don't expect to get one overnight for a trip.


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## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

What king of bladder do you use for the Wingnut Hyper 2.5?
Camelbak LR ?

Looking at the picture I can't see where a regular .70 bladder would go


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I use a regular 3 liter which works fine. Just can't fill it completely. 80 oz max


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Finally received my warranty Hyper 2.5 a couple weeks ago. Took a while but Scott came through. Answered emails and even the phone , so maybe things have come together.


Pedaling


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## neil.beltchenko (May 29, 2011)

Really, wow! Thats great to hear! Thanks for letting us know.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah, I was shocked myself


Pedaling


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

vikb said:


> Got my WN Adventure Pack today. Looks good. Just waiting for some less wet weather to get out and use it.
> 
> The order to delivery timeframe was looooooong...so be ready for that and don't expect to get one overnight for a trip.


I got my WN pack after a long multi-month wait.

Tried it out and the harness didn't fit me very well around the shoulder/neck area.

Had a friend with sewing skills try and help me modify the harness, but the result wasn't any better.

Started thinking about ordering a new harness or having somebody else local build me a harness to work with the pack.

Then realized how much $$/time I had invested without getting a pack that worked for me so I just gave up and spent hr shopping locally and bought an off the shelf pack that fits great.

The design of the WN pack looks good, but there were so many snafus in my experience I'd be hard pressed to recommend anyone buy one - unless you are able to find a store that stocks them and try on the one you are going to buy.

I have never had fit issues with a pack before and my dimensions are normal so I can't explain the poor fit of the harness. I don't have a second one try on to see if it was a production mistake or if the WN packs just don't fit me.

I can typically walk into an outdoor store and walk out with a comfortable pack in 10-15 mins so I'm not normally hard to fit.


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## hammockman (Feb 21, 2014)

After reading about these great packs I ordered a hyper 2.5 and can't wait to start riding with it. What's the best blatter for the 2.5 these days? I see that the square ones people use to use isn't being used anymore. Thanks


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

hammockman said:


> After reading these angryish e-mails I went ahead and ordered a hyper 2.5 and can't wait to start riding with it. What's the best blatter for the 2.5 these days? I see that the square ones people use to use isn't being used anymore. Thanks


I use the 2 liter Platy Water Tank with the Hoser kit
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/platypus/bottles-and-storage/platy-water-tank/product


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## hammockman (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks, I hadn't seen that one yet. It looks perfect for the hyper 2.5.


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## hammockman (Feb 21, 2014)

Just got an e-mail from Scott of Wingnut Gear and after only two days my hyper 2.5 has shipped. Thanks Scott!


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## chrisgardner73 (Oct 12, 2008)

I just ordered a Hyper 3.0 earlier this week. Can't wait to try it out!


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

I received a Wingnut Enduro and found it excellent.
Use it with a Source 3 liter bladder on where I have put a magnetic held bite valve from Osprey. Great combination.
Bought it on wingnutgear.com


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## foot hill (Oct 16, 2006)

I've used a hyper 2.5 for about 5/6years now. (Disclaimer.. Not used for every Mtb ride) I really love this pack. 
A few stitches have started to Frey and I've found shoe glue works wonders on all the seams and stitch overlaps. 
I've even used the shoeglue to reinforce things that haven't failed yet. 
Another use of the glue is to put a small bead or line on end of straps that you've cut to your personal length, the bead of glue prevents strap from slipping out of strap if you cut the extra length off. 
FYI 
I use a camelback 50oz bladder in my hyper 2.5 
Also just ordered an Assault 
On 8-4-15. If It shows up by 8-15 ill use it for TS100 race. Fingers crossed.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Have had my Adventure pack since Mar 2014. Never been able to use it because the straps fit me so poorly. Never had a problem with any other off the shelf pack straps fitting me so I can only assume my dimensions are normal.

Instead of the straps laying flat like on all my other packs they sit only on the inner edge and dig into my neck/shoulders which is irritating and not something I want to feel for hours on end.

My experience ordering the pack was awful with months of delays and terrible communications that were almost never accurate. :madmax:










I tried to have a friend alter them for me and it was better, but still not great. I was hoping to use this pack for bikepacking and hiking...both would require wearing it comfortably for hours at a time.

I gave up for a while and let the pack sit in the corner of my office gathering dust. Then I thought maybe I got a badly made harness. Since my friend altered the harness trying to fix it I didn't feel it was reasonable to ask for warranty support so I emailled Wing Nut and asked if I could buy a new harness.

They said yes and gave me a price which I accepted.

After a month with no communications I tried to contact them again asking about my harness and asking for a Paypal invoice so I could pay for it.

Nothing. Dead air. :madman:

It's sad because the pack itself looks decent and my main bikepacking pack is getting on 15yrs+ and will wear out one of these days so I'd love to have a replacement ready to go, but if I am thinking about the straps digging into my neck and back I can't wear it.

I've got a friend who has agreed to fabricate me a new harness from scratch. **fingers crossed** He can make something comfortable. He's got industrial sewing machines, but he's never made a pack harness before.

I post a lot on MTBR and rarely rage about customer service. I can't remember a product purchase experience that was so crappy nor communications that were so flakey. The part that is so weird is they respond initially and then go silent. Even when you I am trying to give them more money to fix a problem with the pack.

I'm glad some of you got your packs in a reasonable amount of time and they work for you. I wish I was one of the success stories.

If you are considering buying a Wingnut pack all I can say is only do it if you can afford to buy their pack and then another pack that will work for you. If you only have enough $$ for one pack that has to carry your stuff I'd buy from a more reliable source.

FWIW - photos are of unaltered pack just out of the shipping box.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

> _Commitment is somthing that is easy to say , more difficult to follow through with, and once you get a taste of it&#8230; it's so easy to get out of hand and lead to overcommitment. Early in 2005, before I started the brand Wingnut, I made a commitment to a small group of adventure racers to give them whatever they needed. Inspired by their commitment, I jumped in to support them and renamed my company and took it in a whole new direction. While my commitment to Wingnut has never faded, I have become OVERCOMMITTED with creation of ecopioneer.com (off grid solar used to support multiday adventure races and bike rallys). While wingnut has always been the base foundation supporting these other commitments, somewhere along the way it all became too much. ECOPIONEER lead to many great experiences, semi finalist in Buckminster fuller challenge, and building off grid renewable energy training centers for NY SUNY colleges, but to wingnut it meant not being clear and present and eventually having to pull in my sails. I never pulled the ship out of the water. I slowed it down and made no new commitments so I could refocus and reduce my other commitments. My goal has been to get back to where it all started, commitment to the wrecking crew and wingnut. I'm writing this because I am almost full circle and back. I'll venture most of you understand a thing or two about commitment, and how slow and steady, never wavering finishes the race or the objective, you might even have tasted the pain of overcommitment. Good for you, good for us, that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger. A word of caution when you overcommit&#8230; regroup , refocus, don't let yourself off the hook and keep moving forward. You only really have two choices, lay down where you are and be weak, or stand up where you are and be strong. Own it, even your failures because without failure there is no growth. OK so WTF does that have to do with bags???&#8230; commitment is what brought you to wingnut, I think your on a journey of pushing yourself beyond expectations, sometimes you gotta go there, and sometimes when you've gone too far&#8230; you only fail if you lay down and never get back up. I hope you think of this when that moment hits you on your epic adventure that is about to set sail. Know I've got your back.
> PEACE- SCOTT
> - See more at: Wingnut Gear - Whistle Buckle â€" Always there, always handy._


BTW - the above got posted at Wingnut in May 2015. I've read it a few times, but I am not clear what it actually means for the pack business as the online store is still taking money and orders.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

I do not know if I am wearing my Wingnut correct, but I carry the weight of the bag much lower than your pictures show you do.
Loosen the straps on front (maybe also on the back) and let the bag go so far down that all the weight is on your hips and the problem may be gone. If you are used to having the weight of your gear carried on your shoulders and like that, this is not the backpack you need.
For your information, I am extremely happy with my backpack which is the very first I ave been able to carry fully loaded for 14 hours (when I started) and almost not noticing it. That the backpack is light and at the same time waterproof is a bonus that none of the other backpacks I have had or tried could match. That the weight of the pack is placed lower than most other backpack systems mean you lower your gravity point meaning a lot when on a bike in mountains.
Try lowering the pack and get the weight on your hips instead of shoulders. It cost nothing. You might then be happy with it. Unless you are a very big guy having bought a bag with a small size harness it should solve the problem.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The pack is on my hips. I've tried every option for fit that's available in the pack and harness. I ordered a large harness not the small.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The pack is on my hips. I've tried every option for fit that's available in the pack and harness. I ordered a large harness not the small. 

I wear all my packs so the weight is on my hips. I don't have a pack where the design intent is not to have the weight on the hips.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

my hyper sits really low... and i like it like that.

sick Mike on the fatbike by Wil Blanchard, on Flickr

Mike B by Wil Blanchard, on Flickr

FWIW, about a year and a half ago I had a tear in my hyper... sent it out to wing nut to get repaired and it came back in good time... for reasonable $$.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Dunno Vik, before I read the other comments I was thinking it looks like your pack is sitting too high. I used a Hyper 3.0 for a couple years and it sat much lower. A few guys I know down here have the Adventure pack, and they seem to sit lower as well. My pack would sit below the line of the line of the hip belt by a couple inches. Its not totally clear in the pic but yours seems to be sitting level or just above the hip belt. You might be able to loosen the hip belt a little so it can drop down but still carry the weight on your hips. Then loosen the shoulder straps at the back and let the main bag drop. If you can lower it 2-3 inches, the shoulder straps will be spread further apart where they rest on your shoulders, which should let them lay flat.

Maxwell has an adventure pack as well, he is leaning forward here but the top of the bag is below his armpits 









My pack, it is a little shorter than yours but you can see how far down it sits









Pic with side view, a bit far away in the shrunken image but you can see the main compartment sits below the hip belt









I really liked the Wingnut. It carried a huge volume for a compact and light pack. My only complaint was lack of durability. I had a couple straps pull out of the bag and the main zipper pulled apart from the bag. Never bothered to get it repaired as I got an Osprey, also a great bag that is now on year 3.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

That is what I thought when I saw the picture. Far higher placed on the body than mine is. It is so low that I have to think about keeping the pack over the saddle when moving on the bike.
When I got mine I was informed that it was now fully made in US and no longer abroad and the quality of mine is great. At least no problems so far.
I like the Osprey magnetic valve system, far more convenient than anything else I have tried.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Unless I run the pack below my waist which makes no sense to me I can't place it any lower. I've got it so that the pack is resting on my hips. I've only got this one set of photos I took to show my friend the issue with the shoulder straps. I have adjusted the pack in every way possible to find a solution where it's comfortable.

Like sitting on a bike you place your saddle relative to the BB and where that puts your upper body is what it is for that frame/size.

Similarly it doesn't make sense to me to place the pack non-optimally with respect to my hips so that the top of the pack looks "right" in a photo. Where the top of the bag sits is a function of your torso length. Longer upper body and the pack will "look" lower and vice versa.

Ultimately moving the pack up or down an inch or two doesn't change the shape of the shoulder straps or how they sit on my body. That is the problem I am having. How the pack fit everywhere else was no issue.

I can assure you in the many months I've had the pack I've tried all the reasonable options.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Vik, my pack straps fit like yours do, no matter how low the pack is positioned. But I notice: when my arms are outstretched as though riding, the the strap contacts my traps along the full width of the strap. I would wager this architecture is intentional, which makes sense if it's a riding pack (which also might make it less than great for hiking). I hadn't noticed until seeing your post, and I didn't feel any undue pressure in the strap/traps area. FWIW/YMMV!


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## PeopleForScience (May 15, 2012)

I sent in my pack 6 years ago because the zipper failed. I used to call in every few months to see if it was ready. I stopped calling in about 3 years ago. It was always "next up" or sitting on the bench waiting to go. It was a fantastic pack (so good that I got my shop to carry them) but I can't recommend them to anyone based on the service.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

She&I said:


> Vik, my pack straps fit like yours do, no matter how low the pack is positioned. But I notice: when my arms are outstretched as though riding, the the strap contacts my traps along the full width of the strap. I would wager this architecture is intentional, which makes sense if it's a riding pack (which also might make it less than great for hiking). I hadn't noticed until seeing your post, and I didn't feel any undue pressure in the strap/traps area. FWIW/YMMV!


Glad to hear it's not just me. 

Unfortunately I noticed it immediately and it was not comfortable. I also need the pack to work as well off the bike as on since my life seems to entail a lot of HAB. Every other pack I own is great whether walking or riding so that doesn't seem too much to hope for. 

Anyways my pack is off getting a new harness fabricated. I'm hopeful that when I get it back I'll be able to use it. The body/lower belt part of the pack looks great and I'll be stoked to get it out for some trips. 

Ultimately if the pack just didn't fit my body I could live with that. Seems odd since I never have had pack fit issues before, but if it works for everyone else so be it. I'm just the odd duck.

What does bug me is the craptacular customer service at WN. I just wanted to make the next person aware of that before they send off their $$. :nono:

I'm glad some people got what they paid for in a timely fashion. I'd love to know why the varied results. I was always patient and never got angry in my communications. I'm usually the guy CS agents love to deal with because I am reasonable and don't freak out or have unreasonable expectations. I think the answer to that question will remain a mystery.

Anyways once I get the new harness I'll post back with the results.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

That's really a drag when a small biz is unreliable. You never know; sometimes you'll get the Derby treatment (best customer service in the universe IMO), and other times the _______ _________ treatment (lost a frame bag deposit and pattern during his meltdown). So it goes.

Again FWiW and moot for you, I was just fiddling with my pack, and it seems like the existing harness could be fairly easily modified to shorten the outside edge of the shoulder straps by cutting out a few triangular-shaped sections and sewing the resultant edges back together. I can see, also, that reducing the width of the section where the shoulder straps connect would have an effect on the straps' contour relative to a body.

And damn, already the stitching is coming apart where the padded strap meets the webbing...time to rev up the Singer. Vindication for evdog...

My only other gripe is the key clip. Too large/bulky to be useful, doesn't have a dedicated attachment hole, so it can be unclipped and always ends up in a wrong-end-out configuration.

Sorta par for the course, I guess. Modding gear to get it perfect is something we never seem to be able to get away from. Come on, we love it. Mostly because it really matters when you use the hell out of something.

Cheers...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My buddy has 2 WN packs. Both are failing in multiple areas. The fabrication is weak, but I can get that repaired locally so that's not a deal breaker. I like the design of the pack body.....well at least I think I do...I've never been able to take one into battle. 

I'm hoping that some of the small bikepack bag builders come up with a UL lumbar-style pack that works great on the bike. Could open up a whole new market segment for someone who wants to grow their business past seat/bar/frame bags. :thumbsup:


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Roger that. Where there's money to be made, someone will fill the void. Praise competition...


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## foot hill (Oct 16, 2006)

Dug up these photos of me wearing my beloved hyper 2.5. (6 years old)
They are hip packs!
















I'm 5'-11" @155lbs.

Talked to Scott yesterday on phone and will most likely be trying out a newer style design he has been working on. 
He explained how other ventures have taken his time but seems to be excited about producing made in USA packs for us again. 
.....Jason

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

vikb said:


> I can assure you in the many months I've had the pack I've tried all the reasonable options.


You should have known when you posted pics you would get all sorts of unneeded advice :lol:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

evdog said:


> You should have known when you posted pics you would get all sorts of unneeded advice :lol:


Yup. I know better. :thumbsup:

I should have just posted the last picture that zoomed in on the straps. But I'm sure even then somebody would suggest that the shadows from the body of the pack suggests the hip belt is 0.7654" too high and that would change how the shoulder straps sit.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Wore my WN yesterday on a long ride. My son wore his pack that rides high and his back was hurting. 

As others pointed out the quality is / was junk but the design was great.

I am going to get my son the Camelbac low rider


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Camelbak Skyline isn't perfect, but it does solve the flakey ordering/delivery/CS issues with Wingnut.

First Ride Review: 2016 Camelbak Skyline 10LR and Solstice 10LR Hydration Packs

Hopefully this style of lowrider pack catches on with the masses and we get a few more good options.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

I've been using the CamelBak low-rider models for a couple of years, and they're much more comfortable than the MULE, HAWG, etc. A few years ago I tried to purchase a WingNut pack but gave up in frustration.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

*Wingnut Enduro 2015*



GRAVELBIKE said:


> I've been using the CamelBak low-rider models for a couple of years, and they're much more comfortable than the MULE, HAWG, etc. A few years ago I tried to purchase a WingNut pack but gave up in frustration.


I am one of the lucky that had no problems with Wingnut. 
Took a month to deliver but design and quality is so much better than any of the others I have tried among those are Camelback, Solomon, Vaude and a couple of other I do no longer remember the name of.
Mine hold the usual 3 liter fluid, food, tools, a blanket and a flute I can play when I am so far up in the forests in the mountains that nobody but the birds are disturbed by it.
It has been loaded and maybe overloaded and is the most comfortable backpack I have ever tried.
Should I lose it I will buy another.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I bought a WN pack back in 2013. It was an ordeal to actually get in my hands and then pretty disappointing that the harness was so uncomfortable I couldn't use it.

Tried a few modifications of the stock harness without success [couldn't find a local pack guru to do the work so tried to get mods done by mail]. Gave up after realizing how much time and $$ I'd spent on the pack.










I figured I'd find an equivalent option sooner or later from a company that was easier to deal with and had better QC, but that didn't happen.

I ended up talking to a pack expert who recommended a harness from Hill People Gear. Turns out the attachment points were pretty close to the stock harness, but with a set of shoulder straps that fit me.

https://www.hillpeoplegear.com/Products/tabid/762/CategoryID/6/ProductID/13/Default.aspx










I've done some light duty testing and so far so good. The harness fits like all my other packs. I can't detect any pressure points or other sources or irritation.

I'm going to do a 4 day singletrack bikepacking trip with my FS bike shortly. I'll use this pack and if that goes well then I'm golden.

I'm excited to actually make some use of this pack and techy singletrack touring on a FS bike means it will be a worst case scenario for load weight and fit.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

I am glad I saw this thread as I am ready for a new pack. After reading Vik's experience with Wingnut, not sure I want to venture into that world. My 2 WN packs are 11-12 years old now and one needs to be replaced. Although I think the WN owner sems like a guy who just marches to a different drum, not motivated by money or customer service, I think I am going to give another brand a try this time and just have one WN pack in the inventory.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

cjsb said:


> I am glad I saw this thread as I am ready for a new pack. After reading Vik's experience with Wingnut, not sure I want to venture into that world. My 2 WN packs are 11-12 years old now and one needs to be replaced. Although I think the WN owner sems like a guy who just marches to a different drum, not motivated by money or customer service, I think I am going to give another brand a try this time and just have one WN pack in the inventory.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I commented in the camelbak skyline10 thread that it is a close second to the wingnut splitback I used for many years. The main disadvantage is that the camelbak is seriously heavier than the uber lightweight wingnut but the camelbak for that weight has a ton of more options, like external helmet holders, key pockets, tool pack, and such. I really liked my wingnut and I am growing to like the camelbak the same amount.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

rockcrusher said:


> I commented in the camelbak skyline10 thread that it is a close second to the wingnut splitback I used for many years. The main disadvantage is that the camelbak is seriously heavier than the uber lightweight wingnut but the camelbak for that weight has a ton of more options, like external helmet holders, key pockets, tool pack, and such. I really liked my wingnut and I am growing to like the camelbak the same amount.


Thanks, I will have to give that pack a look. Currently I am using an osprey talon 6 for short rides but I need something in between that and the massive WN pack I have (I forget the name of the model but it's the largest of the WN packs).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Loaded up my WN pack with aftermarket harness and took it out for 3 days of riding. Carries weight very well. Comfortable...with no problem areas. Strictly from a comfort and load carrying perspective it's excellent.

I'm glad to finally get some use from this pack and I'm far less concerned about my 17+yr old Camelbak finally dying.


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## alixta (Dec 27, 2006)

Good feedback Vik.

I tried to order a WN pack years ago. Thankfully I paid via Paypal so was able to negotiate to get all my funds back when the communications dried up.

I'm looking for something larger than my Camelbak Charge 10LR. I had a look at hillpeoplegear.com but they don't seem to do anything suitable.

Looks like the Camelbak Skyline 10LR is the best option out there at the moment. Any others?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

alixta said:


> Good feedback Vik.
> 
> I tried to order a WN pack years ago. Thankfully I paid via Paypal so was able to negotiate to get all my funds back when the communications dried up.
> 
> ...


Is the Skyline going to be any larger? The Skyline is a small pack.

I haven't got any better suggestions for a lumbar style pack at the moment. Sorry.


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## alixta (Dec 27, 2006)

I've not seen a Skyline IRL, but it looks like the Charge smaller.
If nothing else the Skyline reservoir is 1 litre larger.


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## mcd (Jan 12, 2004)

looks like they are back... i've had a 2.5 for almost 10 years, used on every single mtb ride during that time... 2 main zippers broke a few years ago and i tore the mesh off one side in a wreck but i still ride with it a couple/three times a week... can't wait to get a new one.... Adventure Racing & Bike Packing Bags | Wingnut


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mcd said:


> looks like they are back... i've had a 2.5 for almost 10 years, used on every single mtb ride during that time... 2 main zippers broke a few years ago and i tore the mesh off one side in a wreck but i still ride with it a couple/three times a week... can't wait to get a new one.... Adventure Racing & Bike Packing Bags | Wingnut


Let us know how the purchase/delivery process goes for you.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Wingnut is still going and ordering on line is all good.
I just got a 2nd smaller Wingnut bag a few months ago. 
Great bags, light, strong, and very well made.
Just place an order and wait. 
My one came in about 6 weeks because I was after an orange one.



Kiwi Pete out Bikepacking somewhere ☺


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## vik (Oct 13, 2005)

NZPeterG said:


> Wingnut is still going and ordering on line is all good.
> I just got a 2nd smaller Wingnut bag a few months ago.
> Great bags, light, strong, and very well made.
> Just place an order and wait.
> My one came in about 6 weeks because I was after an orange one.


That's good to hear. Thanks for the update. :thumbsup:


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## Keyaroxy (Jul 14, 2004)

I hope this is okay here - have a 2.5 that is dark maroonish. Little use and no issues. Just didn't work for me. Would trade for a med/small tangle style bag. Thanks


Trade done - thanks


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Keyaroxy said:


> I hope this is okay here - have a 2.5 that is dark maroonish. Little use and no issues. Just didn't work for me. Would trade for a med/small tangle style bag. Thanks


I am interested in that trade. I've got a revelate tangle that's only been used twice and doesn't fit my new hardtail. It should be small or medium but let me confirm, and I'll get a pic.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I posted about my less than awesome Wingnut experiences earlier in this thread from my purchase of a larger WN Adventure pack. I have been looking for a smaller lumbar style pack for the last few years and came up with few options. I tried a Camelbak Skyline and while it gets marks for looks and construction details it's heavy and doesn't wrap around me for stability.

I kept hunting around, but finally concluded it was worth trying Wingnut again despite my poor experience last time. I mentally wrote off the money so no matter what happened I wouldn't be unhappy.

*Anyways to make a long-story short:

- I ordered a WN 3.0 on 27 Feb 2017
- rec'd order confirmation promptly
- rec'd a request for extra shipping $$ due to my being in Canada [ I'm okay with that.]
- rec'd pack on 16 Mar 2017*

I have only done a quick test fit, but my problems with the previous harness not fitting are not apparent this time so I'll chalk that up to an improperly sewn harness. The bag looks good and I'm happy I gave WN another shot.

I'll post some pics and review later. I just thought I should update my previous comments with the new data.

Three Point Zero | Wingnut


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Quick update on the WN 3.0 pack. I'm liking it better than the Camelbak Sykline 10R in most respects. It carries my gear more comfortably and it's more stable for techy AM riding. The main downside with the WN pack is the hose routing is goofy and doesn't seem well thought out for a dedicated hydropack, but I've got some ideas for DIY work arounds that should make me happy enough.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Another update coming up on 3 months since I got the Wingnut 3.0 pack. It's become my new favourite hydropack. I'll be selling the Camelbak Skyline 10R as I can't see myself ever going back to it. The 3.0 is better in every way.

I'm glad I gave WN another shot. :thumbsup:


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

vikb said:


> Another update coming up on 3 months since I got the Wingnut 3.0 pack. It's become my new favourite hydropack. I'll be selling the Camelbak Skyline 10R as I can't see myself ever going back to it. The 3.0 is better in every way.
> 
> I'm glad I gave WN another shot. :thumbsup:


You are not the only one who is happy with Wingnut backpacks. Mine is now more than 3 years old and still perfect as when I received it. It sits on my hips and even on the hardest of climbs my back is not boiling as with all the other backpacks I have used.
If you want a better bite valve than the one from Camelback I recommend the Osprey magnetic bite valve. Just drink and let i go; it will jump back to its holder. 
NOTE: Do not use the magnetic bite valve if you use a pacemaker.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

las-palmas said:


> If you want a better bite valve than the one from Camelback I recommend the Osprey magnetic bite valve. Just drink and let i go; it will jump back to its holder.
> NOTE: Do not use the magnetic bite valve if you use a pacemaker.


I've got no issues with the bite valve on my bladder. I would prefer a different hose routing on the 3.0, but I hacked something that works okay.


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## 6D ATB-1T EVO (Jul 13, 2010)

vikb said:


> I've got no issues with the bite valve on my bladder. I would prefer a different hose routing on the 3.0, but I hacked something that works okay.


I bought a Source 3L hydration bladder with a long insulated hose, and put the Osprey bite valve on it. Works great, but when looking at the Web site for Source they did not have that model on it now. Maybe like many other companies: New model every year.
https://sourcetacticalgear.com/10-tactical-hydration-systems


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