# Ebike Ride recovery impact? (Note: No science was used in the composition of this post!)



## macduff (Sep 4, 2012)

I've been riding my Ibis HD3 for 7 yrs in the same woods, my rides vary from 40 to ~1Hr and were for me mostly Cardio capacity limited in that I was pretty exhausted at the end and HR was moving into High Zone 5 on my ride back up the woods climb (as I live near the top of these woods I always go down then back up). My Garmin Fenix 7 would state my rides were in the High Aerobic intensity zone, except if I specifically backed off on any climbs as sat in the granny gear and rode to stay as best I could in Aerobic HR range (Zone3?) and The watch usually advised I needed 30~40+Hrs recovery. Generally I found If I rode one day skipped the next I'd be good to go but my legs always felt reasonable after 24hrs rest, so suspect it was my Ticker recovery was my limiting factor (It having had a mild MI and stented some 5years ago)
So I just recently I swapped to a Mondi Crafty E-Bike as felt I was limited in my ride capacity to explore more trails on single ride & the HD3 is pretty worn and baggy. 
So I've done 1 week on the ebike over similar ride time I did on the HD3 the week before and Cardio wise I feel a lot fresher, Strava has recorded nearly 1/2 the relative effort this week compared to last and my HR zones are far more Zone 2/3 biased than Zone 4/5 of the week before with Garmin Recovery estimates per ride being about 20hrs. However my Quads/Hams are feeling it a lot more and generally feel pretty fatigued for the whole of the next day and still a bit tired the day after. 
After ponding this post (overnight - I wrote in grey matter yesterday) I wondered if its because the E-bike is forcing me to use a higher cadence (uphill) as needed to get the (Bosch gen4 CX) motor to assist while whereas on the oxygen powered Ibis I was probably dragging up at a lower (guessed 50rpm cadence) so my old legs (57yrs and counting) are having to adapt to the faster spin speed even though they are getting motor assist whilst doing it. Or maybe I just need more coffee (and the resultant trips to the undergrowth (to pee). PS after an Ebike ride my cardio recovery feels shorter as per the Garmin estimated recovery time.
Anyone else had that or similar experiences not that it matters in the scheme of things, Maybe the swap to the ebike will give me more potential to improve my ride fitness? I'd seen that my segment times uphill over the past couple of years were slipping into the slower than before or static but not getting better despite feeling fitter.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Consider the possibility that you are doing more descending while standing which may be using your leg muscles more than you think.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

I makes sense that with your Ibis your cardio was your ride limiting factor. The harder you push, the longer the recovery. That's life, unless you are an ultra athlete who never allows for recovery time. With the pedal assist, your cardio will not be your limiting factor. Your muscules will endure more time climbing more and more time descending. Just generally maneuvering a much heavier bike will engage more muscles and require slightly more force, all with much less cardio affect.


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## Ipe (Jan 28, 2014)

I find the big difference impact wise during a ride emtb vs traditional bike is that with the emtb I don't go as anaerobic with as much accompanying lactic acid build up. You still get a serious workout, or at least I do. If you ride long enough you're probably still going to need recovery time though. 

In your Fenix you should be able to add the "eMtb" activity. That will more accurately record your ride and recovery times


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

macduff said:


> I've been riding my Ibis HD3 for 7 yrs in the same woods, my rides vary from 40 to ~1Hr and were for me mostly Cardio capacity limited in that I was pretty exhausted at the end and HR was moving into High Zone 5 on my ride back up the woods climb (as I live near the top of these woods I always go down then back up). My Garmin Fenix 7 would state my rides were in the High Aerobic intensity zone, except if I specifically backed off on any climbs as sat in the granny gear and rode to stay as best I could in Aerobic HR range (Zone3?) and The watch usually advised I needed 30~40+Hrs recovery. Generally I found If I rode one day skipped the next I'd be good to go but my legs always felt reasonable after 24hrs rest, so suspect it was my Ticker recovery was my limiting factor (It having had a mild MI and stented some 5years ago)
> So I just recently I swapped to a Mondi Crafty E-Bike as felt I was limited in my ride capacity to explore more trails on single ride & the HD3 is pretty worn and baggy.
> So I've done 1 week on the ebike over similar ride time I did on the HD3 the week before and Cardio wise I feel a lot fresher, Strava has recorded nearly 1/2 the relative effort this week compared to last and my HR zones are far more Zone 2/3 biased than Zone 4/5 of the week before with Garmin Recovery estimates per ride being about 20hrs. However my Quads/Hams are feeling it a lot more and generally feel pretty fatigued for the whole of the next day and still a bit tired the day after.
> After ponding this post (overnight - I wrote in grey matter yesterday) I wondered if its because the E-bike is forcing me to use a higher cadence (uphill) as needed to get the (Bosch gen4 CX) motor to assist while whereas on the oxygen powered Ibis I was probably dragging up at a lower (guessed 50rpm cadence) so my old legs (57yrs and counting) are having to adapt to the faster spin speed even though they are getting motor assist whilst doing it. Or maybe I just need more coffee (and the resultant trips to the undergrowth (to pee). PS after an Ebike ride my cardio recovery feels shorter as per the Garmin estimated recovery time.
> Anyone else had that or similar experiences not that it matters in the scheme of things, Maybe the swap to the ebike will give me more potential to improve my ride fitness? I'd seen that my segment times uphill over the past couple of years were slipping into the slower than before or static but not getting better despite feeling fitter.


Seriously, all I got out of this was that riding your eBIke is easier than pedaling a real bike. Nothing wrong with this. And I'm sure you can use an eBike as part of a carefully planned out rehabilitation regimen. But we are all cardio capacity limited. Unless you are limited by some health problem, however, and with the understanding that age is a real factor in training (I'm pushing 60 myself), the way to increase your cardiac capacity is to do cardio...things like hill workouts, interval training, and just hard riding. You're feeling more refreshed because you're putting in half the effort. Your legs are sore because, as you observed, you weren't putting nearly as much work into riding as you thought you were...as your heart rate, not your leg strength was limiting your riding. 

Spinning doesn't necessarily build strength. I do squats, deadlifts, hamstring curls, leg extensions, and other things in the gym to build up leg (and core) strength which has really made a difference in climbing, particularly really steep grades.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Ailuropoda said:


> Seriously, all I got out of this was that riding your eBIke is easier than pedaling a real bike. Nothing wrong with this. And I'm sure you can use an eBike as part of a carefully planned out rehabilitation regimen. But we are all cardio capacity limited. Unless you are limited by some health problem, however, and with the understanding that age is a real factor in training (I'm pushing 60 myself), the way to increase your cardiac capacity is to do cardio...things like hill workouts, interval training, and just hard riding. You're feeling more refreshed because you're putting in half the effort. Your legs are sore because, as you observed, you weren't putting nearly as much work into riding as you thought you were...as your heart rate, not your leg strength was limiting your riding.
> 
> Spinning doesn't necessarily build strength. I do squats, deadlifts, hamstring curls, leg extensions, and other things in the gym to build up leg (and core) strength which has really made a difference in climbing, particularly really steep grades.


Actually, the cardio with an e bike is very effective. You can do lots of zone 2, which is virtually impossible on a regular mountain bike.

Objectively, i got in a lot better aerobic shape since i bought my e mtn bike 4 years ago. 90 prevent zone 2, rest high heart rate.

12 hours a week though.

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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

rod9301 said:


> Actually, the cardio with an e bike is very effective. You can do lots of zone 2, which is virtually impossible on a regular mountain bike.
> 
> Objectively, i got in a lot better aerobic shape since i bought my e mtn bike 4 years ago. 90 prevent zone 2, rest high heart rate.
> 
> ...



Why is zone 2 impossible on a mountain bike? I can get on a gravel or paved road on any one of my bikes and just stroll along casually which is what Zone 2 is fundamentally...the ability to carry on a conversation.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

One man’s Z2 and another’s Z4. But generally it’s not hard to do Mtb rides in Z2 unless perhaps your fitness is really low. 


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Ailuropoda said:


> Why is zone 2 impossible on a mountain bike? I can get on a gravel or paved road on any one of my bikes and just stroll along casually which is what Zone 2 is fundamentally...the ability to carry on a conversation.


Yeah, but how boring is this?
With an ebike you could be in technical singletrack and have fun, while keeping your heart rate low.

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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

Ailuropoda said:


> Seriously, all I got out of this was that riding your eBIke is easier than pedaling a real bike. Nothing wrong with this. And I'm sure you can use an eBike as part of a carefully planned out rehabilitation regimen. But we are all cardio capacity limited. Unless you are limited by some health problem, however, and with the understanding that age is a real factor in training (I'm pushing 60 myself), the way to increase your cardiac capacity is to do cardio...things like hill workouts, interval training, and just hard riding. You're feeling more refreshed because you're putting in half the effort. Your legs are sore because, as you observed, you weren't putting nearly as much work into riding as you thought you were...as your heart rate, not your leg strength was limiting your riding.
> 
> Spinning doesn't necessarily build strength. I do squats, deadlifts, hamstring curls, leg extensions, and other things in the gym to build up leg (and core) strength which has really made a difference in climbing, particularly really steep grades.


Very well stated Sir.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

ballisticexchris said:


> Very well stated Sir.


I mean, seriously. I'm not against eBikes at all but let's not get silly. Their primary appeal is that they take away a lot of the effort from commuting and recreational riding. Pedaling an eBike is better than nothing in the exercise department but it's like walking. Yes, walking is good exercise and improves health but it's not exactly "fitness" in the sense that most of us amateur athletes understand it. My grandmother used to go for walks. Same with eBikes. I was on a ride in Phoenix the other night grinding up a long, uphill grade at what I thought was a respectable cadence and speed when I was passed by a guy on an eBike...like I was standing still. And he was, in fact, pedaling. I was doing about 12 MPH. He was doing at least 20. I guarantee he was expending minimal effort. If you think an eBike is similar to riding a real bike for training and cardio purposes I don't know what to say.

And again, recreational cycling to include us amateur athletes (I'm the country's worst endurance mountain bike racer) is not an activity that is improved with a motor. It's not necessary. If you can't cover the distance or make it up a hill then ride and train more. That's the nature of the sport. The motorized bicycle is not a natural and inevitable evolution of the recreational bicycle. I don't want a motor because I'm a cyclist, not a motorcyclist or an eBiker.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

Ailuropoda said:


> I mean, seriously. I'm not against eBikes at all but let's not get silly.


I was seriously considering to get an E-MTB. My doctor recommended to get a traditional mountain bike. So I did. I don't need to keep up with a group. I'm strictly doing this for fitness and enjoying local trails in my area. 

I have a long way to go in getting my cardio and leg strength back. After just a short ride the other day I'm very pleased with my decision. And boy oh boy these long travel suspension and disc brakes are amazing!!

Here is a thread I started getting back in the saddle: 








Back in the mountain bike saddle


I'm 61, retired and just went through my second knee replacement. I wanted to get a E-MTB but my doctors talked me out of it. I need to get both leg strength and cardio back to acceptable levels. I'm on track with garage exercises and have a cross trainer to supplement for leg strength. Right...




www.mtbr.com





I'm not against a E-bikes either. It's just not for me. I know without a doubt I would be relying on the motor to power me up the climbs. And heck, I already have a few motorcycles that power me around perfectly fine.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Ailuropoda said:


> I mean, seriously. I'm not against eBikes at all but let's not get silly. Their primary appeal is that they take away a lot of the effort from commuting and recreational riding. Pedaling an eBike is better than nothing in the exercise department but it's like walking. Yes, walking is good exercise and improves health but it's not exactly "fitness" in the sense that most of us amateur athletes understand it. My grandmother used to go for walks. Same with eBikes. I was on a ride in Phoenix the other night grinding up a long, uphill grade at what I thought was a respectable cadence and speed when I was passed by a guy on an eBike...like I was standing still. And he was, in fact, pedaling. I was doing about 12 MPH. He was doing at least 20. I guarantee he was expending minimal effort. If you think an eBike is similar to riding a real bike for training and cardio purposes I don't know what to say.
> 
> And again, recreational cycling to include us amateur athletes (I'm the country's worst endurance mountain bike racer) is not an activity that is improved with a motor. It's not necessary. If you can't cover the distance or make it up a hill then ride and train more. That's the nature of the sport. The motorized bicycle is not a natural and inevitable evolution of the recreational bicycle. I don't want a motor because I'm a cyclist, not a motorcyclist or an eBiker.


No no it's not the same, it's better.

Many years ago Herman Meier was in a bad accident.

His rehab consisted of 5 hours a day of very easy riding, much easier than any mtn biking.

And he went on to win many races.

There's a lot of science that shows vo2 improving more with z 2 effort than zone 4.

Just because you feel like you're not working hard on a e bike

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## macduff (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm now about a week in riding my E-bike at about the same time duration I'd put in on the Lung powered HD3 with the E-bike covering ~90miles and 10.5K ft of elevation . So the HR effort is about 1/2 to 2/3rd of non assisted rides but I'm getting a more balanced training status (from Garmin stats) where I'm pulling up the anaerobic and low aerobic minutes clocked compared to nearly all being high aerobic minutes previously . I'm also still seeing more ham/quad fatigue post ride which seems occur even if the ride was an undulating gravel trail not just hammering down a gnarly red or black run. So in my mind at least it seems a good step in getting a better fitness balance (& hopefully improvement) than just blowing through all the cardio cookies on the 1st long hill which seems to have caused my fitness to stagnate (if my strava trail climbing times where anything to go by). I'll have to factor in some non assist ride time now and again to see if theres any improvement to my old strava non assisted stats.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

rod9301 said:


> No no it's not the same, it's better.
> 
> Many years ago Herman Meier was in a bad accident.
> 
> ...



I suppose if you have a fitness coach carefully craft a fitness regimen for you which involves careful use of an eBike to get just the right balance of training zones and you stick to it by applying the required power output to the pedals for the required time you will get fit. But what's the actual point of the motor? If you want to stay in "Zone 2" on the trails which is essentially a leisurely ride during which you can talk to other riders you're doing it wrong. Trail riding is like interval training. You're essentially taking the intervals out of it on an eBike by nullifying the climbs. All you have left are flats (presumably) and descents. And the motor is going to help you on the flats. eBikes. Rah rah. Let's not get silly.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rod9301 said:


> Yeah, but how boring is this?



Boring for some maybe but not "virtually impossible"


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

rod9301 said:


> You can do lots of zone 2, which is virtually impossible on a regular mountain bike.
> 
> 12 hours a week though.


virtually impossible? Hardly.
How many days and miles a week do you ride?


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## angelo (Sep 3, 2004)

Ailuropoda said:


> I suppose if you have a fitness coach carefully craft a fitness regimen for you which involves careful use of an eBike to get just the right balance of training zones and you stick to it by applying the required power output to the pedals for the required time you will get fit. But what's the actual point of the motor? If you want to stay in "Zone 2" on the trails which is essentially a leisurely ride during which you can talk to other riders you're doing it wrong. Trail riding is like interval training. You're essentially taking the intervals out of it on an eBike by nullifying the climbs. All you have left are flats (presumably) and descents. And the motor is going to help you on the flats. eBikes. Rah rah. Let's not get silly.


Ever ride one (ebike)? Nullifying the climbs is not generally accurate...


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

rod9301 said:


> Actually, the cardio with an e bike is very effective. You can do lots of zone 2, which is virtually impossible on a regular mountain bike.
> 
> Objectively, i got in a lot better aerobic shape since i bought my e mtn bike 4 years ago. 90 prevent zone 2, rest high heart rate.


With any kind of workout it's easy to stay in zone 2 by simply reducing the effort. IMO you don't need an e mtb to do that. 

This might sound sound callous but the reason your aerobic shape is better has nothing to do with a e mtb. It just means you were not disciplined enough to keep your HR in the lower zones before. With the pedal assist it's a no brainer. Just set the power level and ride. No more constant switching gears and slowing cadence like before. 




rod9301 said:


> There's a lot of science that shows vo2 improving more with z 2 effort than zone 4.
> 
> Just because you feel like you're not working hard on a e bike


I admittedly have a difficult time staying in zone 2 with any exercise unless it's stretching. For me that's ok. I'm in such poor shape right now I need all the help coming from my body. All those years of deteriorated leg muscles from bad knees. And being at the point of tears when getting out of bed with back pain along with sciatica (which is never going away) really sucks. 

Before I dusted off my road bike and actually was doing loops on pavement I had it set up as a statonary bike on my rollers with a fork attachment. It was easy to stay in zone 2 but it did no favors on my fitness or leg strength. At 61 years old zone 2 meant peddling slow in 2nd or third gear. Heck, even doing simple static half squats would push my heart into zone 4 150-160BPM by the third set of 10. 

So now I ride until I'm sucking gas and my legs burn. This means keeping my HR in zone 4 and taking breaks while riding and recovery days as needed. In time I know it will get better and easier. I'm following my doctors and physical therapists advice. They specifically told me to push my efforts (within reason) on the pedals and exercises. 



angelo said:


> Ever ride one (ebike)? Nullifying the climbs is not generally accurate...


It's very accurate. I have ridden a Yamaha YDX pedal assist e bike. In full turbo mode you can turn any hill into child's play. I imagine all these high end pedal assist are the same. These bikes are game changers at flattening the hills. It's what makes them so attractive.



Cleared2land said:


> virtually impossible? Hardly.
> How many days and miles a week do you ride?


You make a very valid point. I know with 100% certainty that with more time in the saddle and more exercise my HR and effort will be less for the same gear and speed. I'm doing baby steps right now. This is my last week of physical therapy and I have one more day on my mountain bike. My goal is to work up to 3-4 days a week riding and completing the 11 mile local loop. Currently I'm at 3.4 miles with only maybe a mile of it on the actual trail. Right now the hills are having me stop and slobber. These same hills I did with ease over 30 years ago remind me I'm not 30 anymore and how out of shape I am.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Ailuropoda said:


> I mean, seriously. I'm not against eBikes at all but let's not get silly. Their primary appeal is that they take away a lot of the effort from commuting and recreational riding. Pedaling an eBike is better than nothing in the exercise department but it's like walking. Yes, walking is good exercise and improves health but it's not exactly "fitness" in the sense that most of us amateur athletes understand it. My grandmother used to go for walks. Same with eBikes. I was on a ride in Phoenix the other night grinding up a long, uphill grade at what I thought was a respectable cadence and speed when I was passed by a guy on an eBike...like I was standing still. And he was, in fact, pedaling. I was doing about 12 MPH. He was doing at least 20. I guarantee he was expending minimal effort. If you think an eBike is similar to riding a real bike for training and cardio purposes I don't know what to say.


You don't know what you're talking about.
It's like walking 🙄
E-MTB ride


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## butryon (Aug 12, 2005)

E-bike hate is pretty amusing, especially because I was a hater until 2 and 1/2 months ago. You can still do intervals. You can still do all sorts of hard workouts on an e-bike. It's just like riding a trainer, you get to pick how hard you want to go. I had lost my motivation on my bike. I was riding for an hour to an hour and a half a day. In the past years, I would ride for two to three hours 4-5 days a week. Now, when I don't feel motivated to train, I still get on the bike and just go casual. It seems like about 10 or 15 minutes into my ride, I'm having a blast and I slow down and start to do some real work. It's just perspective. People on traditional bikes just haven't ridden an ebike yet.

To the original poster, you are likely getting more time in on your bicycle. That's probably a great thing. As you feel like you're getting fitter, maybe throw in a few days with some quick sprints. I think it would make all the difference in the world for you. Enjoy your ride!


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