# Cheapest "real" Mountain Bikes?



## mm9 (Apr 22, 2008)

My 3 oldest kids want new mountain bikes for Christmas (Two teenagers and one 20 year old). It's been a good while since we've purchased new bikes. Would like to hear some opnions on the cheapest "real" mountain bikes today and features/cost.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

entry level bikes start around $500 and will generally be:

-a hardtail (front suspension only, perfectly fine)
-v-brakes (discs brakes in this price range generally aren't nice, unless u find a bike with Avid BB5's)
-weak front fork for off road trail riding, but will be perfectly fine if they dont do anything over intermediate off road stuff. upgrades start around $250 for a nice fork)


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

what type of bike are you looking for? 29er? 26er? Full suspension? hardtail? (etc.)


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## darthbobby (Apr 16, 2009)

I'll second that ~$500. Just remember that its all about the fit of the bike. Buying a bike as a present could be bad (and a huge waste of money) if they never ride because it doesn't feel right. I'd suggest taking them to pick it out. I know that isn't as awesome as getting a bike on xmas day... Maybe you have an awesome LBS that will let them switch it out after xmas if it doesn't fit right? just a thought.


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## mm9 (Apr 22, 2008)

zarr said:


> what type of bike are you looking for? 29er? 26er? Full suspension? hardtail? (etc.)


Probably 26er, hardtails. Yes, I'll bring them to the shop and have them properly fitted.
The 20 year old has a group of friends that are riding at his college and he wants to join them - Trails and some urban style mtb around campus. (He weighs near 200 lbs) The youngest of my bunch is an internet researcher and is convinced he needs a 29er after watching Gary Fisher videos , but it appears the prices jump up a good bit (from what you can get in a 26er) for those at present.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I don't know about all entry level bikes, but you could google up the Forge Sawback 5xx hardtail ($399 at target.com). It drew some discussion on the forums (use the mtbr search at the top of the page) a while back. Good wheelset and drivetrain at that price- very good. Entry level Dart1 fork (entry level as expected at that price) . Good brakes at the price too.(Avid BB5s). you could check with jensonusa.com or performancebike.com online or stores for a deal. Performance ships free if you order red phone at the store shipped to the store and you can also lay bikes away I think. Happy Holidays. :thumbsup: ...Check Target.com for free shipping too. (don't know details) I think the Forge Sawback only comes in the 17" or 19" size.


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## dr13zehn (Jun 20, 2009)

If you have the luxury where you live, I'd check out several different LBSs and see if they have some 2009 model bikes on sale. 
Right now is a good time for this, since many of them still have 2009 stock and are willing to give you nice discounts. Especially if you buy 3 bikes from them.

If you are lucky, you could end up with something like a Trek 6000 or Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc for about $500 to $600. Those are great bikes, even when you pay full price.


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## darthbobby (Apr 16, 2009)

If you are trying to just get something as cheap as possible; Specialized, Gary Fisher, Trek, Giant and Cannondale all have bikes that msrp around $500-600 that are great beginner bikes. These will all be 26" hardtails, and yes, now is the time to buy 2009 models. I would be shocked if you spent more than $500 on each bike.

If you just want a good deal; you could probably get a 2009 bike worth close to $1000 for around $600-700.


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## mm9 (Apr 22, 2008)

Thanks for the info so far. I went to a local shop the other day. They carried Cannondale and Gary Fisher (these were their more entry level brands). If I remember correctly, seems like the lower end bikes they carried that they called a real mountain bike ranged anywhere from 450 - 700 and they had the same frame on each bike in that range. From what I remember here were the important features that improved with price:

Drive train components
The forks got noticeably beefier at around $550
Front fork lockout at around 575?.
Disc brakes
Seats
Etc.

I assume for my older guy the beefier forks would be important. How important is lockout?
Are the cheaper disk brakes not worth it, or are they still better than pull brakes?


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

mm9 said:


> Thanks for the info so far. I went to a local shop the other day. They carried Cannondale and Gary Fisher (these were their more entry level brands). If I remember correctly, seems like the lower end bikes they carried that they called a real mountain bike ranged anywhere from 450 - 700 and they had the same frame on each bike in that range. From what I remember here were the important features that improved with price:
> 
> Drive train components
> The forks got noticeably beefier at around $550
> ...


i'd say that a lockout IS important if the bike will be doing ANY riding on pavement, it helps with the speed and pedal bobbing.
by cheap disc brakes i mean tektros. Avid BB5's are good.

did u happen to get any model numbers?

jot these down and check out the base Specialized Rockhopper (no disc brakes, but has a great frame to upgrade with down the line and a good name brand fork with lockout), also its lightweight
Cannondale F7.. beautiful frame, good disc brakes (bb5's i think), but the fork i think is a **** RST. Will work, but will be the weakest link in a bike. i'd upgrade this immediately. dont know much else about it
Trek 4300- don't know much about.

these are the 3 bikes that are at the entry level price range. all have their strengths and weaknesses, of the 3 i'd go with the rockhopper maybe because its the lightest. BUT keep in mind it will cost u $$$ to upgrade to disc brakes down the road if the boys want them. you'll need new wheels ($200+) + disc brake set ($150)


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## JasperIN (May 16, 2009)

Gary Fisher wahoo!!


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Mongoose has some good values and their product managers are frequent volunteers in our trail and park efforts where all the guys we've met have been great people they have passion and integrity that I respect. Many of the products they show us are good.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

JasperIN said:


> Gary Fisher wahoo!!


not without an explanation why u think its good. other than the fact that you like it.

doesn't the GF use some proprietary geometry that prevents the fork from being upgraded or something...


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## darthbobby (Apr 16, 2009)

Bikes that are $500 are _generally_ not worth expensive upgrades because _everything_ needs to be upgraded. At that level they are great for beginners and for testing whether you are going to continue mountain biking.

My $500 bike is a 2 season bike. Now that I've proven that I am going to stick with the sport (and saved up some money) I'm going to get a bike that's ~$2000 that I can hold onto for many years and upgrade when I need to. Of course I'll save the old one for hooking friends on biking =)

Now if you are willing to spend almost $1000 on each bike (like on a rockhopper), then you can find something with a better frame to upgrade over time.


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## BigSharks (Oct 4, 2009)

bitflogger said:


> Mongoose has some good values and their product managers are frequent volunteers in our trail and park efforts where all the guys we've met have been great people they have passion and integrity that I respect. Many of the products they show us are good.


Such a shame they whored their brand name off to Pacific... when I was growing up, they were THE company for bmx and everyone wanted one. Now, I equate them with big box store bikes, and tend to forget they have a higher end.


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## JasperIN (May 16, 2009)

louisssss said:


> not without an explanation why u think its good. other than the fact that you like it.
> 
> doesn't the GF use some proprietary geometry that prevents the fork from being upgraded or something...


You can upgrade the fork even if its not a G2 it will change the geometry( u may not even notice it) alittle. I've looked at other bikes(trek,cannondale,specialized, giant) but the wahoo caught my eye. For $500 plus tax u get a solid bike with good conponents. Cannondales r nice but ur paying more for the frame. Trek and specialized bikes did nothin for me in the looks category. JMO!!


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## Subie (Sep 14, 2009)

can you pretend I'm your son too? I want another bike for X-Mas!!!


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

JasperIN said:


> You can upgrade the fork even if its not a G2 it will change the geometry( u may not even notice it) alittle. I've looked at other bikes(trek,cannondale,specialized, giant) but the wahoo caught my eye. For $500 plus tax u get a solid bike with good conponents. Cannondales r nice but ur paying more for the frame. Trek and specialized bikes did nothin for me in the looks category. JMO!!


OP be sure to check the weight on these bikes, it will affect the guys' biking going uphill, carrying the bike up any stairs/lifting it onto a car, etc. Lighter is generally better in biking...
the rockhopper base weighs around 26-27lbs i THINK. the cannondale and trek weighed 28+. (be sure to verify these weights by calling up the manf. i didn't take GF into consideration, dunno why just because. wasn't interested in proprietary geometry parts


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I'm not a bike expert, but compare the parts on the Forge Sawback 5xx Hardtail ( that I mentioned earlier in this thread with other bikes $500 or less. You throw a upgrade fork like a Tora or Manitou Drake Super Air or something of that ilk on that bad boy and you got something. Feel me? (providing the frame is cool ...right size, strong, not too heavy etc.) . $399? Yeah buddy. Hello.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

zarr said:


> I'm not a bike expert, but compare the parts on the Forge Sawback 5xx Hardtail ( that I mentioned earlier in this thread with other bikes $500 or less. You throw a upgrade fork like a Tora or Manitou Drake Super Air or something of that ilk on that bad boy and you got something. Feel me? (providing the frame is cool ...right size, strong, not too heavy etc.) . $399? Yeah buddy. Hello.


because its from target, he will get 0 support from the store, have to build it himself (if he can even do it correctly), do ALL maintenance by himself, have a no-name frame from a no-name company. no lifetime warranty. get my drift? and whats that come with, a Dart 1? my pogo stick will be a better fork.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

louisssss said:


> because its from target, he will get 0 support from the store, have to build it himself (if he can even do it correctly), do ALL maintenance by himself, have a no-name frame from a no-name company. no lifetime warranty. get my drift? and whats that come with, a Dart 1? my pogo stick will be a better fork.


Well, I've never seen the bike & you certainly need to do more research on it... and the Dart has to go...but for 4 bills the parts make it worth it if you can wrench it yourself. You got to wonder about that one. Read the reviews. the frame is prolly OK. mmmm.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

hmm lets see, 17/19" frame that the OP cannot try on. #1 mistake in buying a bike. also no lifetime warranty on frame. frames tend to crack after some years of a beating and is the most important thing when buying a bike.

Dart 1 fork, about as crappy as it gets, probably worse than some Suntour and RST stuff. no lockout.

no-name hubs which are probably worse than specialized's in-house designed stuff. "ITS NINJA!!!" tires, yea sure those are good!

Brakes: why the tektro levers on BB5 brakes? more cost cutting and edge cutting on the bike?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

louisssss said:


> hmm lets see, 17/19" frame that the OP cannot try on. #1 mistake in buying a bike. also no lifetime warranty on frame. frames tend to crack after some years of a beating and is the most important thing when buying a bike.
> 
> Dart 1 fork, about as crappy as it gets, probably worse than some Suntour and RST stuff. no lockout.
> 
> ...


Well what do you want for $400? The big question is the frame. If they discount it to $369 shippng included, then what? All I'm saying is if you want just to get a so called, "real" mtb, this one may be something to explore. Especially if you're low on $.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

FYI: from the Forge website

"Forge Bicycle, Inc. ("Forge") warrants the frame and rigid fork of each new Forge brand bicycle and Forge brand frameset to be free from defects in material and workmanship for as long as the original purchaser owns the bicycle."

zarr presents a valid consideration for low bucks/fairly solid component kit concerns. I would certainly take a look for my kids wanting to "check out" mtb-ing.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

I bought a 2006 Specialized Rockhopper for my son last year on Fleabay for $275 and picked it up locally so no shipping charges. It had a couple of paint scratches but otherwise pretty much like new condition (even had the nubs on the original tires). Low end Rockshox J3 coil shock but it did have lockout, decent SRAM X5 stuff. Very nice frame for the money. I suggest that you shop around for good used bikes, there is always someone upgrading.


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## eratanun (Oct 3, 2009)

Not sure about the other 2, but if your 20 yr old is planning to do trails and some urban assault, I'd check into the Gary Fisher Opie or Mullet, since your LBS carries GF already. Just picked one up myself and been having a blast with it downtown and out on the trails locally.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

louisssss said:


> hmm lets see, 17/19" frame that the OP cannot try on. #1 mistake in buying a bike. also no lifetime warranty on frame. frames tend to crack after some years of a beating and is the most important thing when buying a bike.
> 
> Dart 1 fork, about as crappy as it gets, probably worse than some Suntour and RST stuff. no lockout.
> 
> ...


if you want to piss and groan about it, you'd be more helpful finding the guy something better for 399.

its not a great bike, but the forge is rideable for cheap. the components arent good, but they'll work. theres some _really_ bad bikes out there for 400 bucks.. the parts spec on the forge is class leading. the dart at least has a damper and preload, most bikes under 400 bucks have neither.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

*http://www.specialized.com/zz/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45800&eid=4340&menuItemId=9253*

better frame, weighs 1600g, whats the forge weigh? Backed by lifetime warranty so u know Specialized has no incentive to make u a crappy frame. a worthy frame to upgrade with down the road. has a fork with lockout.

#1 tip for buying a bike: FIT. The buyer MUST try on the bike first, its like buying a $400 suit. Are you going to try it on first? Read the big banner on the top of the forums.

the forge is a high-end retail store bike, like a high end mongoose from K-Mart.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

louisssss said:


> *http://www.specialized.com/zz/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45800&eid=4340&menuItemId=9253*
> 
> better frame, weighs 1600g, whats the forge weigh? Backed by lifetime warranty so u know Specialized has no incentive to make u a crappy frame. a worthy frame to upgrade with down the road. has a fork with lockout.
> 
> ...


I like the Rockhopper. In fact, I own one. Except mine is a '94.


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## kcb8000 (May 23, 2007)

zarr said:


> Well what do you want for $400? The big question is the frame. If they discount it to $369 shippng included, then what? All I'm saying is if you want just to get a so called, "real" mtb, this one may be something to explore. Especially if you're low on $.


Not sure that having a Dart 1 and some bb5 brakes on it would make it a realy MTB. But me thinks if you are going to be plopping down for 3 bikes, you would most likely get some decent bucks off of the price of some bikeshop bikes. Alot of shops would perhaps still have some 08's in stock as leftovers.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

kcb8000 said:


> Not sure that having a Dart 1 and some bb5 brakes on it would make it a realy MTB. But me thinks if you are going to be plopping down for 3 bikes, you would most likely get some decent bucks off of the price of some bikeshop bikes. Alot of shops would perhaps still have some 08's in stock as leftovers.


good point, my lbs gave me $200 off of my bike since it was the 3rd bike i've purchase off of them in 2009. you will also gain some recognition at your lbs and he will take care of you more. and will hook you up with some accessories. you won't get any discounts by buying a target bike.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

kcb8000 said:


> Not sure that having a Dart 1 and some bb5 brakes on it would make it a realy MTB. But me thinks if you are going to be plopping down for 3 bikes, you would most likely get some decent bucks off of the price of some bikeshop bikes. Alot of shops would perhaps still have some 08's in stock as leftovers.


Forge Sawback? MAYBE another possibility. 'Pends on how good it is. :thumbsup:


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

louisssss said:


> *http://www.specialized.com/zz/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45800&eid=4340&menuItemId=9253*
> 
> better frame, weighs 1600g, whats the forge weigh? Backed by lifetime warranty so u know Specialized has no incentive to make u a crappy frame. a worthy frame to upgrade with down the road. has a fork with lockout.


$520 msrp and its spec'd just as poorly. theres not much better about that frame, its a low end basic aluminum xc frame. they're all surprisingly similar.. you pay an extra hundred bucks for a similar frame, worse components and a brand name sticker.. ?

plus, hes looking for a cheaper bike. forge is cheaper and comparable. you're not getting a world class mtb for 400-500 bucks, im sure he knows that as well.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

One Pivot said:


> $520 msrp and its spec'd just as poorly. theres not much better about that frame, its a low end basic aluminum xc frame. they're all surprisingly similar.. you pay an extra hundred bucks for a similar frame, worse components and a brand name sticker.. ?
> 
> plus, hes looking for a cheaper bike. forge is cheaper and comparable. you're not getting a world class mtb for 400-500 bucks, im sure he knows that as well.


I just heard about the Forge Sawback 5xx on the forums. I've never seen one. I like to build my own bikes from scratch. Just seems like the Forge has some OK parts for the price IMO.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> $520 msrp and its spec'd just as poorly. theres not much better about that frame, its a low end basic aluminum xc frame. they're all surprisingly similar.. you pay an extra hundred bucks for a similar frame, worse components and a brand name sticker.. ?
> 
> plus, hes looking for a cheaper bike. forge is cheaper and comparable. you're not getting a world class mtb for 400-500 bucks, im sure he knows that as well.


if its comparable then why won't forge back it with a lifetime warranty? are they worried or something? i dont want my manf to not stand behind their frame for the lifetime...

he also gets years of LBS service for adjustments and deals on parts.

he also doesn't have to pay $75-100 to have it installed at a lbs.

specialized frame is the same frame uses on the $1000+ bikes in their lineup, thats how good the frame is.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

louisssss said:


> if its comparable then why won't forge back it with a lifetime warranty? are they worried or something? i dont want my manf to not stand behind their frame for the lifetime...
> 
> he also gets years of LBS service for adjustments and deals on parts.
> 
> ...


Somebody said in the thread Forge gives the lifetime warranty on the frame. Now what...? Look for a deal from Target for 20% off + free shippng? Hey- don't forget your tools, some grease, (for hubs etc.), lube for cables & chain, the mtbr.com guy's help, etc. ...youll be good to go. :thumbsup:


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## Frosti (Jun 15, 2009)

and what is wrong with that. Personally if it was me those target bikes would be enough for my teens as they tend to not care for their stuff as closely. The Dart1 works perfect enough for xc and will be great for your teens. To all the high end snobs, this is a beginners section, a few years ago you would have been jumping at the features of the Dart as it is todays lower end but yesterdays higher end. It is the same as the XTR becomes tommorrows Deore, but the snobs will insist that you need to spend x amout of $ for a real bike. The components on the forge are good and even in reviews throughout these forums they say you don't really need more then the Deore unless your are going full out gung ho. As for fit, to those parents out there this is truly the toughest thing to do for a teen, because what fits today may not fit in 6 months ( my 14yr jumped from 5'7" to 6' in a year) so do you really want to take that chance and fork over beaucoup dollars for something that won't possibly fit next summer. Plus even if the OP has to pay say $50 per assembly from an LBS that still keeps his/her initial costs down.

Also what good is a review section here then if all of these posters are going to put down a bike that got a decent review.


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## Woozle (Jun 13, 2008)

I picked up a Kona hardtail (I can't remember the model) from REI in Dunwoody Georgia for around $600. They had a great selection. It had a Dart 2 fork. I rode that bike pretty hard around Atlanta (Big Creek, Blankets, Conyers, Chickopee) for a year with no problems. The seat post was creaky and the guy at REI upgraded it for free (after 3 months of riding). Service there was great (better than the LBS imho). I live in VT and was on a project in Atlanta. At home I have a Yeti 575 with a Fox Talas 36 ($$). All in all I was very happy with the Kona and REI. Not quite as plush as the Yeti  Service and upgrades can be costly if not done yourself. My suggestion would be to buy solid bikes with tune up(s) included. Ride them hard, replace what breaks with similar parts. If there is interest in few years, step up to a FS.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Frosti said:


> and what is wrong with that. Personally if it was me those target bikes would be enough for my teens as they tend to not care for their stuff as closely. The Dart1 works perfect enough for xc and will be great for your teens. To all the high end snobs, this is a beginners section, a few years ago you would have been jumping at the features of the Dart as it is todays lower end but yesterdays higher end. It is the same as the XTR becomes tommorrows Deore, but the snobs will insist that you need to spend x amout of $ for a real bike. The components on the forge are good and even in reviews throughout these forums they say you don't really need more then the Deore unless your are going full out gung ho. As for fit, to those parents out there this is truly the toughest thing to do for a teen, because what fits today may not fit in 6 months ( my 14yr jumped from 5'7" to 6' in a year) so do you really want to take that chance and fork over beaucoup dollars for something that won't possibly fit next summer. Plus even if the OP has to pay say $50 per assembly from an LBS that still keeps his/her initial costs down.
> 
> Also what good is a review section here then if all of these posters are going to put down a bike that got a decent review.


Yowsah Yowsah Yowsah !!! ( group: Chic- song: Dance, dance, dance.) :thumbsup:


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## GEARHEAD_ENG (Jul 22, 2009)

I haven't seen any mentions for the Specialized Hardrock Sport. Would be a decent beginners bike, especially for your younger teens. Solid frame, SRAM X4 components, 8 speed cassette, and V brakes. MSRP $440, should be able to find an 09' for less than four bills.

Now your 20 y/o is going to need something a little stronger due to his size and intended use. The Rockhopper might work for him and upgrade as required. If you can get his size nailed down and can do a little wrenching, then look into online bikes as well (Bikesdirect, Performance Bike, Jamis, ect).

I personally think the Motobecane 700HT would be good contender at $499 and free shipping. Rockshox Dart 2 fork, Shimano Deore XT, 9 speed cassette, Tektro disc brakes, WTB SpeedDisc rims, WTB tires, saddle etc. Probably won't see anything in at the LBS like this in the same price range. One thing to mention is the Dart 2 might require an upgrade to a Tora 318 (or equivalent) down the road.


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

GEARHEAD_ENG said:


> I haven't seen any mentions for the Specialized Hardrock Sport. Would be a decent beginners bike, especially for your younger teens. Solid frame, SRAM X4 components, 8 speed cassette, and V brakes. MSRP $440, should be able to find an 09' for less than four bills.
> 
> Now your 20 y/o is going to need something a little stronger due to his size and intended use. The Rockhopper might work for him and upgrade as required. If you can get his size nailed down and can do a little wrenching, then look into online bikes as well (Bikesdirect, Performance Bike, Jamis, IBEX, ect).
> 
> I personally think the Motobecane 700HT would be good contender at $499 and free shipping. Rockshox Dart 2 fork, Shimano Deore XT, 9 speed cassette, Tektro disc brakes, WTB SpeedDisc rims, WTB tires, saddle etc. Probably won't see anything in at the LBS like this in the same price range. One thing to mention is the Dart 2 might require an upgrade to a Tora 318 (or equivalent) down the road.


Thanks for the mention

If the OP wants to stay around $1000 for all 3 bikes together; the new Cliff 4300 is one of the best deals I know of.

Lock out, Disc Brakes, nice quality frame and components
My people and customers have been surprised at this bike for less than $350 delivered

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/windsor_cliff4300.htm

A whole lotta bang for the buck; IMHO


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Motobecane 700 HT. OK. Another possibility.


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## ReeCee (Aug 21, 2009)

The wife and spent right around $600 (ea) for a pair of Marin Bobcats. Not Marin's cheapest bikes and certainly not their priciest either. We've been pleased with them. The wife has put maybe 25 miles under her tires (guess she wasn't that into it!) but I've put well over 1,000 miles under mine in the past 1.5 years. Not problems at all to report with either bike. 
You find a review of the bikes here


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## DannyBoy1 (Nov 5, 2009)

I got the 09 Diamond Back Response Sport.
Its only $350.00 now at Dicks/Sports Chalet.
Disc Brakes
Double Wall Rims
120mm Fork
Etc Etc.


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## jeff spicoli (Jan 28, 2008)

Size: 17" FRAME / STANDOVER HEIGHT 30.9"
Color: RED
Frame: 6061 DOUBLE-BUTTED ALUMINUM, HYDROFORMED GUSSET, WITH DISC AND RACK/ FENDER MOUNTS
Front Suspension: ROCKSHOX DART 1 W/ADJUSTABLE PRELOAD, 100MM TRAVEL
Wheels
Rims: WTB SPEEDDISC, 32-HOLE
Hubs: JOYTECH ALLOY QR DISC 32H
Spokes: 14G STAINLESS STEEL
Tires: ITS NINJA 26X2.1"
Drivetrain
Speed: 27
Shifters: SHIMANO DEORE
Front Derailleur: SHIMANO ALIVIO
Rear Derailleur: SHIMANO DEORE
Crankset: TRUVATIV ISOFLOW ALUMINUM TRIPLE 22/32/42T
Bottom Bracket: VP SEALED CARTRIDGE
Cassete: SRAM PG950, 34-11T, 9 SPEED
Chain: SHIMANO HG73
Pedals: ALLOY PLATFORM
Components
Saddle: WTB PURE V SPORT
Seat Post: ALLOY 30.8X350MM, ADJUST WITH QUICK RELEASE
Handlebar: MTB ALLOY 600MM
Stem: FORGE - ALLOY 105MM
Grips: WTB TRAIL
Brake Set: AVID BB-5, MECHANICAL DISC
Brake Levers: TEKTRO ALLOY
Extras: PRESTA VALVES, CATEYE REFLECTOR SET, TWO WATER BOTTLE MOUNTS, STORAGE RACK & FENDER MOUNTS CLEAR COAT PAINT FINISH AND OWNERS MANUAL
Forge Sawback specs. Similar Rockhopper sells for twice as much!!!!!!


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## California L33 (Jul 30, 2005)

There are a lot of decent choices in the $500 to a bit above range. I would NOT go to Costco or Walmart, stick with name brands. I'll second whoever said Specialized Rockhopper, but most makers have something similar. If you can find a LBS that carries Jamis look at the Trail series. You can get those for around $400 (and more, depending upon how they're speced).


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## LlamaZorz (Jun 11, 2008)

Personally I think the bikes you guys are recommending are just too expensive. Should any kid really get $800 or even $400 worth of gifts for Christmas. I don't know about you guys but I never got more than $200 when I was a kid. Plus we are talking about 3 kids, which at $500 a pop is $1500 total. That is one hell of a expensive Christmas. I have one side of my family which is incredibly wealthy and non of those kids has ever even gotten close to $500 in gifts.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

LlamaZorz said:


> Personally I think the bikes you guys are recommending are just too expensive. Should any kid really get $800 or even $400 worth of gifts for Christmas. I don't know about you guys but I never got more than $200 when I was a kid. Plus we are talking about 3 kids, which at $500 a pop is $1500 total. That is one hell of a expensive Christmas. I have one side of my family which is incredibly wealthy and non of those kids has ever even gotten close to $500 in gifts.


you're aware that whats expensive to you is inexpensive to another right...

have u heard of anyone receiving a car as a bday gift???? You must've fainted when you heard that one!

If the guy has his budgets set @ $500/kid then so be it. I also second not buying from walmart,costco,kmart,target, etc. They all sell pretty much **** bikes with 0 service after u leave the store. Anything goes wrong and you're on your own. You will also spend about 1-2 hours assembling it yourself and risking breaking or wasting your time on something; or bring it to a bike shop and be charged $100 to have it assembled...
You might as well buy the bike from the bike shop and get it assembled for free and get 1 year of free service if anything goes wrong with it. Keep in mind that things WILL go wrong with it, kids break things all the time.


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## LlamaZorz (Jun 11, 2008)

Yeah I have heard of kids getting cars for their birthdays, and those kids are usually spoiled brats without good relationships with their parents and money is used as a alternative to both love and respect. 

I dont come from a wealthy immediate family, but we have those in our extended family who are extremely wealthy. Those kids and others of the wealthy, as seen in many research projects(Millionaire Next door) usually do not get extravagant gifts. Instead they are taught to be frugal and have a good connection with their families. 


Im sure many rich families could afford to give cars as gifts, but that doesn't mean they have to. How one raises their children is their own agenda. I just feel that a $500 gift is a but much, Why not give them $200 credit at the LBS and have them work for the rest. 





As for the bikes in question. I think the hardrocks are the best, I would just go for the baseline model and add Avid Single Digit 7 V brakes.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

LlamaZorz said:


> Yeah I have heard of kids getting cars for their birthdays, and those kids are usually spoiled brats without good relationships with their parents and money is used as a alternative to both love and respect.
> 
> I dont come from a wealthy immediate family, but we have those in our extended family who are extremely wealthy. Those kids and others of the wealthy, as seen in many research projects(Millionaire Next door) usually do not get extravagant gifts. Instead they are taught to be frugal and have a good connection with their families.
> 
> ...


/opinion

are you really trying to father this guys' children right now? you can't be serious. if he wants to get his children bikes then so be it. My parents bought me a $2000 computer when i was younger, it inspired me to get into the technology field and i learned so much about computers starting that year and still know probably more than 99% of the people in this forum. My parents also bought me a $150 bathing suit. I used it to break records. Am i spoiled?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

What $400 bike has a better component list than the Forge Sawback 5xx ?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

zarr said:


> What $400 bike has a better component list than the Forge Sawback 5xx ?


Wait a minute...I just saw one listed on ucanhealth.com for $299.99. ( use their search or google Forge Sawback 5xx Price). Yo- why don't they just give 'em away. If that's the current model, ... that's crazy!! :eekster:


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

zarr said:


> What $400 bike has a better component list than the Forge Sawback 5xx ?


well the forge has no reputation at all. it doesn't date back to the 80's, it doesn't have the frame quality reputation of cannondale, trek, or specialized. With that ALONE i'd pay $100 more for 30 years of customer satisfaction. and its not only the frame, u get more for that $100.


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## LlamaZorz (Jun 11, 2008)

louisssss said:


> /opinion
> 
> are you really trying to father this guys' children right now? you can't be serious. if he wants to get his children bikes then so be it. My parents bought me a $2000 computer when i was younger, it inspired me to get into the technology field and i learned so much about computers starting that year and still know probably more than 99% of the people in this forum. My parents also bought me a $150 bathing suit. I used it to break records. Am i spoiled?


Yeah Id say you were spoiled. There really is no need for a computer costing $2K, unless you are playing games. Im a BSD kernel developer and never had a computer worth $2K, not even $1K. I learned most of the stuff I know about computers, by reading source code and building them. I also don't think the bathing suit caused you to win.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

louisssss said:


> well the forge has no reputation at all. it doesn't date back to the 80's, it doesn't have the frame quality reputation of cannondale, trek, or specialized. With that ALONE i'd pay $100 more for 30 years of customer satisfaction. and its not only the frame, u get more for that $100.


u mean $220. How do you know it's no good? Just cause it desn't hae a name brand on it? Forge said they would back the frame. Have you heard any stories about anyone breaking one? Do research and show proof before you knock it. :thumbsup:


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

LlamaZorz said:


> Yeah Id say you were spoiled. There really is no need for a computer costing $2K, unless you are playing games. Im a BSD kernel developer and never had a computer worth $2K, not even $1K. I learned most of the stuff I know about computers, by reading source code and building them. I also don't think the bathing suit caused you to win.


i am a gamer, and olympic athletes don't wear them because it makes them slower...



zarr said:


> u mean $220. How do you know it's no good? Just cause it desn't hae a name brand on it? Forge said they would back the frame. Have you heard any stories about anyone breaking one? Do research and show proof before you knock it. :thumbsup:


no i dont really care about the forge much, dont really care for toys from target...
but only an idiot will buy something that has no reputation making quality unknown.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

louisssss said:


> i am a gamer, and olympic athletes don't wear them because it makes them slower...
> 
> no i dont really care about the forge much, dont really care for toys from target...
> but only an idiot will buy something that has no reputation making quality unknown.


Speciallized didn't have a reputation once.


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## jeff spicoli (Jan 28, 2008)

Jesus Chris$,
You guys remind me of the VRC regulars. The OP was asking about the "cheapest real mountain bikes". What is the problem? Do you morons think that Rockhopper frames and the like aren't made in the same factory in Taiwan as everything else?????? Treks might be USA made but, they carry the same warranty as Forge bikes and cost twice as much. People you need to STFU and quit being such Homers. BTW I come from the old school, buy the bike with the best components!!!


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## mm9 (Apr 22, 2008)

Subie said:


> can you pretend I'm your son too? I want another bike for X-Mas!!!


Sure, If you will pitch in and help pay for me when I get old! 

Seriously, (OP here) This has been an educational thread for me so far - thanks! Some points for further discussion if you don't mind:

1) The price and differences between buying a bike online or from a walmart or Target, or buying from an LBS. In other words something like: Online Store brand X with these componets price vs. LBS well known brand with similar components - price. The $X different to do it yourself vs. shop service.

My personal style in sports hobbies is generally to have a relationship a local specialty shop, not just buy the product itself. But a couple of my sons are do it yourselfers - one builds his own computers etc, so he may be interested in building his own bike. The youngest already does some of the maintenance on his old beater mtb and recently built up a cool hybrid from an 80's model road bike and some old mountain bike parts we have laying around - (stem, handlebars and brake parts)

2) What are beginner components that are utter crap? the ones to stay away from.

3) Interesting point about whether or not to shell out the full bucks for the 3 bikes. Been thinking a lot about that one, especially in this economy. Normally, I take the conservative approach, but the fact that it was a cool and healthy hobby has me thinking of going above normal limits. It's also been a long time (years) since we've bought new bikes around here. How about some more debate on the subject.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

How much are you willing to spend for the bikes?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

zarr said:


> How much are you willing to spend for the bikes?


Maybe you should start a new thread(s) based on the exact amount of money you can spend.


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## jeff spicoli (Jan 28, 2008)

Hey Louissss,
How long you been MTBing? Just curious cause you act like an expert on the subject.


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## mm9 (Apr 22, 2008)

This is a ballpark guess because I'm still not in touch with today's prices and what you get for them. Two possible strategies:

1) On line retailer brand or with decent components $400 - $500. Then see if I can hire a bike mechanic part time (through my local forum) for a few hours to come help my kids build their own bikes up out of the box.

2) Most likely - 500 - 600 from LBS, but see if they will allow my kids to help build and adjust them. One guy locally is a small informal shop and might be open to this?

*That was an intersting idea about having them pay for some of the bike.

How many of you guys build your own bikes and do most of your own maintenance? As kids we did all our own, but bikes are a lot more complicated now.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

mm9 said:


> This is a ballpark guess because I'm still not in touch with today's prices and what you get for them. Two possible strategies:
> 
> 1) On line retailer off brand or department store off brand with decent components $400 - $500. Then see if I can hire a bike mechanic part time (through my local forum) for a few hours to come help my kids build their own bikes up out of the box.
> 
> ...


It's hard to get a bike with above low level suspension fork AND a good frame without spending more than $500. Theguys on the forums can help you though. Just keep posting new threads asking questions and take notes. If many people agree on something, It's probably good! :thumbsup: Take your time but hurry up. X-mas coming soon! You'll be OK. Post up in more than one forum. (29er, general discussion, drivetrain, etc.)


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## SnakePliskin (Nov 21, 2009)

TREK,GT,HARO,KONA,FUJI,SETTE,CANNONDALE,GARY FISHER,GIANT,many more, its all the same,get your $500.00 times three,have the height,inseam,weight of each kid tell the local bike shop these things,pay them and be done.It's not rocket science.For 500 your not going to get awsome, just functional.You don't even know if your kids are going to like MTBing.If my dad spent $500 on me at xmas when I was a kid I would have passed out.

AND by all means disregard what LOUISSSSSSSS has to say,he seems to have been turned out by specialized.Quit being a LOUA$$$$$$$$$.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

SnakePliskin said:


> TREK,GT,HARO,KONA,FUJI,SETTE,CANNONDALE,GARY FISHER,GIANT,many more, its all the same,get your $500.00 times three,have the height,inseam,weight of each kid tell the local bike shop these things,pay them and be done.It's not rocket science.For 500 your not going to get awsome, just functional.You don't even know if your kids are going to like MTBing.If my dad spent $500 on me at xmas when I was a kid I would have passed out.
> 
> AND by all means disregard what LOUISSSSSSSS has to say,he seems to have been turned out by specialized.Quit being a LOUA$$$$$$$$$.


YEA RIGHT every bike is the same, they're all the same!!!
just like every sony/panasonic/samsung/toshiba/vizio LCD is the same!!
just like every dell/sony/lenovo/asus laptop is the same!
or so says the uneducated consumer.

right ignore me and listen to you: the guy who thinks every bike is the same


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Go on performancebike.com and look at some bike deals. And see if there is a performance bike store near you. 
They sell the online bikes through the stores too. They build, fix and maintain them there too. Just another possibility.


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## SnakePliskin (Nov 21, 2009)

At $500.00 they are basically the same.:thumbsup:


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

louisssss said:


> YEA RIGHT every bike is the same, they're all the same!!!
> just like every sony/panasonic/samsung/toshiba/vizio LCD is the same!!
> just like every dell/sony/lenovo/asus laptop is the same!
> or so says the uneducated consumer.
> ...


we get it. you like spec bikes. you'd hump yours if you could..

didnt you just get your rockhopper a few weeks ago? ive got a feeling you dont even have a real grasp on your own bike, much less any others. takes a few weeks just to get settled on something and decide if you like it, much less put it on a pedestal.

my first hardtail FRAME was 650 bucks. frame only.. complete rockhoppers for 520 bucks arent worth a damn, and really arent special or significantly better than any other 500 dollar bike out there.

snake is right, theres really very very little difference in xc hardtails at that price point. go actually ride a few.

like someone else said, you completely missed the point anyway. hes looking for a cheap mtb. forges are well spec'd and 300 bucks. i really doubt hes interested in crappier spec'd bikes for 660 extra dollars total.


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## thoggard (Nov 30, 2009)

I think Zarr receives loyalties from every Forge purchase  And heed SnakePliskin's wisdom. I am beginning to think Louisssssss has anger management issues. Seriously though, you all provide me with endless hours of entertainment with your ceaseless nagging. mm9: don't buy your kids Raleigh bikes, they're the sux and as I have recently and unfortunately learned first hand, they utilize near obsolete components in their bicycle construction. 7 speed freewheels for instance.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

thoggard said:


> I think Zarr receives loyalties from every Forge purchase  And heed SnakePliskin's wisdom. I am beginning to think Louisssssss has anger management issues. Seriously though, you all provide me with endless hours of entertainment with your ceaseless nagging. mm9: don't buy your kids Raleigh bikes, they're the sux and as I have recently and unfortunately learned first hand, they utilize near obsolete components in their bicycle construction. 7 speed freewheels for instance.


Ain't nobody answered my question though, yaan. What bike $500 or below has better components than the Forge Sawback 5xx? Something to think about. ( like CC Music Factory and Arsenio said..."Things that make you go mmmm?)


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## GEARHEAD_ENG (Jul 22, 2009)

zarr said:


> Ain't nobody answered my question though, yaan. What bike $500 or below has better components than the Forge Sawback 5xx? Something to think about. ( like CC Music Factory and Arsenio said..."Things that make you go mmmm?)


Well the 700HT I posted earlier definitely has better components... Dart 2, TruVativ 5D Crank, Shimano Deore XT (RD), 9 Speed cassette, WTB SpeedDisc Rims, TEKTRO AQUILA Mechanical Disc Brakes, Cane Creek Headset, WTB tires, saddle, grips, etc.

Other thing to mention is it comes in five sizes, where the Forge has two. Hard to get a good fit when there is only a couple to chose from.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

GEARHEAD_ENG said:


> Well the 700HT I posted earlier definitely has better components... Dart 2, TruVativ 5D Crank, Shimano Deore XT (RD), 9 Speed cassette, WTB SpeedDisc Rims, TEKTRO AQUILA Mechanical Disc Brakes, Cane Creek Headset, WTB tires, saddle, grips, etc.
> 
> Other thing to mention is it comes in five sizes, where the Forge has two. Hard to get a good fit when there is only a couple to chose from.


OK. Two good choices. No.1- 700HT. No.2-Forge Sawback.


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## GEARHEAD_ENG (Jul 22, 2009)

Double post


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## GEARHEAD_ENG (Jul 22, 2009)

zarr said:


> OK. Two good choices. No.1- 700HT. No.2-Forge Sawback.


I agree, both a good option. For the price the Sawback hard to beat. Anyone know the weight? Probably heavy, but so is most in the sub $500 category.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

GEARHEAD_ENG said:


> Other thing to mention is it comes in five sizes, where the Forge has two. Hard to get a good fit when there is only a couple to chose from.


Some would say it's hard to get a good fit without test riding the bike first.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

GEARHEAD_ENG said:


> I agree, both a good option. For the price the Sawback hard to beat. Anyone know the weight? Probably heavy, but so is most in the sub $500 category.


More than a Panzer tank, less than a C130.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

diamond back responce or responce sport. 
gt avalanche 3.0
haro flightline sport

try to find a 2009 on a deal this month otherwise your looking about $500


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

GEARHEAD_ENG said:


> I agree, both a good option. For the price the Sawback hard to beat. Anyone know the weight? Probably heavy, but so is most in the sub $500 category.


If the Forge is really $299.99, ...that's silly. I'm gettin' drunk just thinking about it. The parts alone are worth that much, aren't they?


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## GEARHEAD_ENG (Jul 22, 2009)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Some would say it's hard to get a good fit without test riding the bike first.


I agree with that, if its an option. But if your son is comfortable on his 17" frame bike, then chances are that the new one would fit as well with some adjustments (saddle, stem, bar height). If there is only two sizes though you chances of it fitting all three teens is much more slim.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

GEARHEAD_ENG said:


> I agree with that, if its an option. But if your son is comfortable on his 17" frame bike, then chances are that the new one would fit as well with some adjustments (saddle, stem, bar height). If there is only two sizes though you chances of it fitting all three teens is much more slim.


Unfortunately, one manufacturer's 17" frame bike may not fit and feel the same as another manufacturer's 17" frame bike. And yes, maybe you can adjust it to be close enough, and maybe you have to buy some new parts for it to be close enough. And maybe some beginners can get through that adjustment/new part process easily, but I'm not sure all beginners can or would want to.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Unfortunately, one manufacturer's 17" frame bike may not fit and feel the same as another manufacturer's 17" frame bike. And yes, maybe you can adjust it to be close enough, and maybe you have to buy some new parts for it to be close enough. And maybe some beginners can get through that adjustment/new part process easily, but I'm not sure all beginners can or would want to.


Once again the Force's wisdom has proved absolute. Buying any bike without trying the fit is taking a gamble. As long as it can be returned without any problem or cost to the buyer all is OK.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

zarr said:


> As long as it can be returned without any problem or cost to the buyer all is OK.


I agree.


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## Jaded Grunt (Dec 3, 2009)

I grew up on department store bikes and never had a problem with them until I grew up and hit 5'11" 200 lbs. I decided to get back into mountain biking after about 10 years so I picked up a cheapo mountain bike and quickly regretted it. The seat post wouldn't stay up. The chain kept falling off during steep climbs. At one point I was flying down a hill and the brakes all but gave out on me. I was on an urban trail with a sharp turn and a concrete wall quickly approaching. I barely survived that one...

With $500 being too much for me to justify spending on a bike I did my research to find out what brands are trusted and what constitutes quality components. I ended up finding a Trek Liquid for $130. After taking it to a bike shop to have it looked over and spending $180 on a new rear wheel, a new set of tires and a bunch of adjustments it runs perfectly. It's just not very good on the street. So back to the shops I went to look for a hardtail. Some of the gems I found were a Specialized Hard Rock Pro for $200 that was a little rough around the edges but still in good shape, a Rock Hopper for $200 and a Cannondale F300 that looked like it had never even been sat on for $300. I ended up settling on a Trek 4500 with no rear wheel for $75. If I wanted to I could get it up and running again for another $50-$100. A lot of bike shops will put it on for free and adjust everything if you buy the parts from them and they're not busy.

The point is that even if you're on a budget you can pick up a really nice, trusted brand with quality components for next to nothing if you shop around a bit, you're willing to buy used and you know what you're looking for. Bikes are pretty simple machines. Parts and information are widely available on the internet and most bike shops that I've gone into are more than happy to answer any questions you might have about parts and maintenance. Especially this time of year because they're so dead. Once you know what you're looking at just check craigslist (but beware of scams), check ebay and shop around at local pawn shops.

This time of year the bike shops are also putting their 09s on sale. They've probably been running sales for the last month or so which means you'll be scraping the bottom of the barrel if you start looking now. It'll be tough to find exactly what you want but if you _do_ find something that you like it'll probably be deeply discounted or the shop will be much more willing to cut you a deal on it.


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## kcb8000 (May 23, 2007)

I would stick with something name brand! Even if most of the bikes in that price range are spec'd similarly. Biggest reason, If you sons hate them or at the very least don't ride or want them anymore, you could prolly sell a Specialized, Trek, Jamis, anything folks have heard of, Forge, dont think so!

Just something else to think about!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Has anybody wondered why Forge put that level of components on a bike that most people in the MTB world don't have the foggiest idea in the world about? That's the crazy part.  ...


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## JoelovesDirt (Apr 28, 2008)

zarr said:


> Has anybody wondered why Forge put that level of components on a bike that most people in the MTB world don't have the foggiest idea in the world about? That's the crazy part.  ...


It's cause what they pay for the parts and Forge seemingly has little overhead. Compared to the big brands who pay for marketing and race teams etc. Here's an example: I have a friend who worked for Klein back in the day. His employee price for a Thomson seatpost was $14 retail from a shop is + or - $89.99!!!!


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

I own three Forge bikes. Forge makes excellent bicycles, they back their bikes and customer service is excellent. I have over 3+k miles on my blue Sawback and the bike keeps on going.

Forge is without doubt a real mountain bike with impressive cost to component value. For additional details go to the forge site: http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5red.asp
Actual weight is approx. 31.7 LBS (which is very well in-line).

Here is a link to a Forge thread on mtbr.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=292931&highlight=sawback+silver

My shopping experience at Target was easy, and I feel comfortable buying through Target. You can also look for additional discounts, AAA.com (if you are a member) get an extra 10% off or some major credit cards provide discounts as well.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions on the bike.


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## krio (Dec 4, 2009)

*trek 3700 or Giant Boulder SE*

new to mountain biking and interested in thoughts about these 2 models


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

bikefun said:


> I own three Forge bikes. Forge makes excellent bicycles, they back their bikes and customer service is excellent. I have over 3+k miles on my blue Sawback and the bike keeps on going.
> 
> Forge is without doubt a real mountain bike with impressive cost to component value. For additional details go to the forge site: http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5red.asp
> Actual weight is approx. 31.7 LBS (which is very well in-line).
> ...


This is the post I been wondering about...Testimonial from an actual owner. :thumbsup:


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## California L33 (Jul 30, 2005)

zarr said:


> If the Forge is really $299.99, ...that's silly. I'm gettin' drunk just thinking about it. The parts alone are worth that much, aren't they?


Really? I just went to the Forge website. They seem to spec actual name brand components, which is good, but the parts on the models I clicked on were hardly top of the line. I ride more road than mountain, and there is a trick that mail order road bike makers use- they spec out a ride with a high end groupo, which they buy in quantity at a good discount, then throw them on the cheapest Chinese frame they can find, add mid-range wheels, then say, 'Compare our competent level to X' which is a name brand bike. But there's no comparison. If you buy the mail order bike (sold in a way that you can't test ride them), you end up with a noodley, heavy bike with good components and mediocre wheels. Then something amazing happens. They get great reviews, because they work out of the box, and most of the people buying are new to biking and have never ridden a good bike to compare it to.

Then, if you start digging, going to place like PBK, you find you can buy the groupo for less than the price of the cheap bike. And there's no way you can buy a world class frame and put the groupo from el cheapo on it for less than what you'd pay a dealer for the good bike to start.

That said, not everyone needs a world class bike. My bike needs are rather modest, and the OP, in particular, buying kids bikes, doesn't need the latest bells, whistles, and carbon fiber doo-dads. The only thing I'd caution him about, as a couple of people seem to like their Forges, is that if you buy online, or from Target, you don't have a dealer who can adjust things for you, at least not without paying, and even if Forge stands behind their bikes, without a dealer network, you will have to ship components that fail, and pay for installation. If the OP doesn't mind this, or can do the work himself, maybe he can save a few dollars.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

zarr said:


> Has anybody wondered why Forge put that level of components on a bike that most people in the MTB world don't have the foggiest idea in the world about? That's the crazy part.  ...


lol its not like its all xtr'd out. its got a really cheap build with bottom end parts.. its just better than what you can get for 300 bucks from other brands. its good for the price, you're not going to have people swooning over your bike at the trailhead


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## jeff spicoli (Jan 28, 2008)

krio said:


> new to mountain biking and interested in thoughts about these 2 models


Forge Sawback see above


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

One Pivot said:


> lol its not like its all xtr'd out. its got a really cheap build with bottom end parts.. its just better than what you can get for 300 bucks from other brands. its good for the price, you're not going to have people swooning over your bike at the trailhead


Isn't that what the OP asked about? The cheapest real mtb? Or mountain bikes?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

i agreed a long time ago that it should be high up on the guys list. its a good buy, but it is what it is. its just a good cheap beginner bike, which probably fits what the guy is looking for spot on and will provide significant miles of fun. nothing too crazy.

just trying to keep heads level.. the first few forge threads went a bit overboard.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

One Pivot said:


> i agreed a long time ago that it should be high up on the guys list. its a good buy, but it is what it is. its just a good cheap beginner bike, which probably fits what the guy is looking for spot on and will provide significant miles of fun. nothing too crazy.
> 
> just trying to keep heads level.. the first few forge threads went a bit overboard.


I'm with you. Same page. Cheap + Real + Mountain + Bike + Forge + Some + Others.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

How dare you two , interjecting common sense and clear thinking .


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> How dare you two , interjecting common sense and clear thinking .


Sorry.  ...Nonsense anyone?


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

OP, before buying bikes from target, check out your LBS, they were quick to price match many bikes/parts that online and other bike shop competitors had to offer. Not only did my lbs match the price, they beat it on my rh sl pro by $150. Keep in mind not many bike shops sell everything @ retail price + tax, i've helped my lbs get 5 bike purchases in 2009 and not one of them were even near retail, they are very open to bargaining

2010 RH SL Pro $1300 flat + free bike bag + free lube + free Park Chain Cleaner + 1 year of free service (MSRP $1550) 

2010 Stumpjumper Comp $1500 flat + discount on armadillo tires + 1 year of free service (MSRP $1750)

also got 2 other mykas with similar discounts.

If you're making a "big" (3 bikes simultaneously are considered big) purchases from a bike shop they will be quick to work with you on the price, i'd say u can get 3 x Rockhoppers(base model) for $500 each. With that the great lightweight XC frame that are used on $1500 bikes.


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## rvbuilder2002 (Mar 1, 2009)

California L33 said:


> Really? I just went to the Forge website. They seem to spec actual name brand components, which is good, but the parts on the models I clicked on were hardly top of the line. I ride more road than mountain, and there is a trick that mail order road bike makers use- they spec out a ride with a high end groupo, which they buy in quantity at a good discount, then throw them on the cheapest Chinese frame they can find, add mid-range wheels, then say, 'Compare our competent level to X' which is a name brand bike. But there's no comparison. If you buy the mail order bike (sold in a way that you can't test ride them), you end up with a noodley, heavy bike with good components and mediocre wheels. Then something amazing happens. They get great reviews, because they work out of the box, and most of the people buying are new to biking and have never ridden a good bike to compare it to.


I can't say that Forge doesn't do this with their road bikes...the very well might.

I can say that I don't think they do it with the 5XX Sawback.
My family owns three. My wife and daughter each have a silver 17" and I have a 19".
I bought mine in April 09 for $365 with a discount coupon and free shipping. We bought the other two in June 09 for $343 each with a bigger discount coupon and free shipping.

We all know it is not a high end mountain bike...the key point for me was that it is as good and and in some cases better than any of the other HT bikes I looked at that I would of had to pay $530 to $550 for. In comparison it is very similar to a Giant Yukon (it actually has a higher level drive train than the Yukon) and has a frame that looks suspiciously identical as well (some people have speculated that it is made in teh same frame factory as some of the Giant models).
These bikes have taken us everywhere we have wanted to go and I think they are capable of much more than we are.
Sure there are bikes that are much more capable as mountain bikes...but not for anywhere near this price. If you are just starting out like we were, I think it is the best deal going for a starter mountain bike.

There are two important things that need to be considered though....

1. You need to be able to assemble it your self. It is not difficult but lets be honest...there are people in this world that are money ahead if they leave the tool box shut and pay someone else to do the mechanical stuff. I was a bike mechanic in college so it was no big deal but anyone somewhat mechanically inclined should not have a problem. It is pretty simple stuff. Everything on the bikes worked ok right out of the box but with A little fine tuning I got them working Real Nice

2. Good fit of a bike is critical. This is a major issue shopping on line for a bike. I have the background knowledge to to evaluate and adjust for each of us and we ended up with good fits with the sizes we have. This may not be possible for every one to do. There have been numerous posts in these forums of people that ordered the Sawback and after trying it out realized it was not a good fit. Target.com took back the bike and paid the return shipping.

I have been very satisfied (I put 850 miles on mine since April 09...about 600 road and 250 trail). I would not hesitate to buy another sawback 5XX if we had a need for another bike.

Judge it for what it is...an entry level HT mountain bike with a lifetime frame warranty at an every day price lower than you can typically find anywhere else (not counting previous model year closeouts, etc)
Did I mention that my 19" weighs 32 lbs with peddles (but stripped of all reflectors). The 17" bikes are just shy of 32 lbs (can't remember the exact weight)

It would seem to me that mountain bikers would be more enthusiastic about a real bike (versus something from Walmxxx) that might draw more people into trying out real mountain biking because the price of admission wasn't real high. In the long run, the more people that are involved in the sport, the more excepted the sport will become...which would bennefit all of us.

It doesn't take a $1000+ bike to be a real mountain biker....


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## quikflip27 (Aug 30, 2009)

krio said:


> new to mountain biking and interested in thoughts about these 2 models


I have an 05' Giant boulder. I bought it used for $80 off CL. 2009 models retail ~$230. I have put 530 trail miles on it in the last two months and its held up great.To the OP: It doesnt have the shock lockout, or even disc brakes, but it still is a mountain bike. Those kind of things are luxuries to the sport, not necessities. To me this is one of the cheapest "real" mountain bikes.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Every LBS I went in to tried to rip me off. Why? Because I'm Black? Maybe.  Anyway I'm glad...so glad because now I know how to build my own bikes. Thanks, LBS. :thumbsup: :madmax:  zarr out.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

zarr said:


> Every LBS I went in to tried to rip me off. Why? Because I'm Black? Maybe.  Anyway I'm glad...so glad because now I know how to build my own bikes. Thanks, LBS. :thumbsup: :madmax:  zarr out.


I thought black people didn't like the outdoors?


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## rvbuilder2002 (Mar 1, 2009)

quikflip27 said:


> I have an 05' Giant boulder. I bought it used for $80 off CL. 2009 models retail ~$230. I have put 530 trail miles on it in the last two months and its held up great.To the OP: It doesnt have the shock lockout, or even disc brakes, but it still is a mountain bike. Those kind of things are luxuries to the sport, not necessities. To me this is one of the cheapest "real" mountain bikes.


I can't comment on whether the boulder can be bought at a lower price than the Sawback but it should be...it is a much lower level bike. Particularly as far as gear train goes. You may be able to classify it as a real mountain bike but it is geared pretty high as far as mountain bikes go...front chain rings at 28/38/48...more typical of a real mountain bike would be 22/32/42. It seems that Giant means for it to be more of a combination on/off road bike (the classify it as a "Life Style" "Recreation" mountain bike).

I fully agree that this is a very viable option, but I spent a lot of time during many weeks searching through craigs list and never found anything. Usually would be wrong size or over priced, or the person was flaky and and I could not ever make an appointment to look at the bike, etc.
If you can find a bike on CL that fits and is priced correctly, it can be a good way to go. Just be aware that their is a lot of people out there waiting to rip people off because they don't know what they are buying, so they consequently don't know what a fair used price is....I have seen people trying to sell 2 year old used bikes for the same price it sold for new. :nono:


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## quikflip27 (Aug 30, 2009)

I was wondering how other riders could spin in a lower gear than me when the boulder came with the megarange (34T) sprocket and everyone else had a 32T. Thanks for that info.


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## nsomniac (Dec 1, 2009)

louisssss said:


> OP, before buying bikes from target, check out your LBS, they were quick to price match many bikes/parts that online and other bike shop competitors had to offer. Not only did my lbs match the price, they beat it on my rh sl pro by $150. Keep in mind not many bike shops sell everything @ retail price + tax, i've helped my lbs get 5 bike purchases in 2009 and not one of them were even near retail, they are very open to bargaining
> 
> 2010 RH SL Pro $1300 flat + free bike bag + free lube + free Park Chain Cleaner + 1 year of free service (MSRP $1550)
> 
> ...


OP - Sorry I can't offer advice on which bike to buy as I just purchased my first bike in 15 years, but I can second what the quote above says. I shopped around locally, and found a couple hardtails in my price range ($600). I went online and found a superior full suspension bike that suited my needs, and it was 40% off, so I thought "great deal" but decided to give my LBS a better chance. I went in today, talked with the owner of my LBS. He obviously had a lot more bargaining power, and I ended up buying a bike for $800 - well over my budget at first glance. The bike was a little more in line with what I needed, but what sold me was the owner informing me that they do lifetime tune-ups for free when you buy a bike from them. That could add up to a pretty nice little chunk over time. I also have the comfort of knowing I will get a lot better service thru them having purchased the bike there.

I guess what I am saying is local product support can be a big advantage and shouldn't be overlooked, unless you're saving so much money you can afford to pay for that support every time something goes wrong down the line (or you happen to be good enough with a wrench).


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## turtleMT (May 19, 2009)

hey OP
keep in mind that the people who spent $500-600 on there entry level mtb. will NEVER say anything good about a $400(forge) that may be as good.or better. and people who spend $800-900 on a mid grade bike will always talk bad about any entry mtb


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

turtleMT said:


> hey OP
> keep in mind that the people who spent $500-600 on there entry level mtb. will NEVER say anything good about a $400(forge) that may be as good.or better. and people who spend $800-900 on a mid grade bike will always talk bad about any entry mtb


This may be true of a few people, but certainly not true of all.


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## California L33 (Jul 30, 2005)

turtleMT said:


> hey OP
> keep in mind that the people who spent $500-600 on there entry level mtb. will NEVER say anything good about a $400(forge) that may be as good.or better. and people who spend $800-900 on a mid grade bike will always talk bad about any entry mtb


By that logic we should all be on $150 Walmart specials. With bikes, like anything else, you generally get what you pay for. What confuses people is that the improvement isn't linear. A $2000 bike isn't four times better than a $500 bike, but a lot of people with $500 bikes trade up anyway, not because they don't know this, but because they want a slightly better bike and are willing to trade the money for it. Most people understand this instinctively with cars- the Bentley isn't 20 times more comfortable or more reliable or faster than the Honda. With bikes, for some reason, it has to be explained.


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

The point is Forge makes a great value bike. Total package; frame and components.


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

The point is Forge makes a great value bike. Total package; frame and components.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

bikefun said:


> The point is Forge makes a great value bike. Total package; frame and components.


We should get a sales commission for telling of this bike. :thumbsup:


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## Bandin (Apr 24, 2009)

I bought this bike a few months back and I still haven't seen a better deal for the components it has. It's actually a bit cheaper than when I bought it (I got it at $679), now it's $599.

SRAM X-7 drive train
Avid BB7 brakes
Dart 2 fork with lock-out
Truvativ cranks, bar and most other components

http://www.rei.com/product/776817


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

Has anyone riden the Forge Sawback 7xx?


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## drn92 (Dec 12, 2009)

Not sure if this is too late ... but REI has some decent bikes in the outlet. I am looking at the Scott Aspect 60, they also have the 55 (same bike with disc brakes) and the 45 for under $500 ... and there is a coupon on all outlet Scott bikes tomorrow (Sunday). There is also a Diamondback with entry level parts for $250 ...

I've always been treated well by the local REI, and the return policy is pretty good.

The Scott Aspect 60 for $360 (less whatever the coupon is tomorrow) might be a good entry level choice.

drn92


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## AusMTB Orienteer (Jun 30, 2006)

I bought a low end mtb just to ride down the road to the train station was an apollo. it lasted 3 months before I got a grinding noise. the LBS I bought it from had a look. the ball bearins in the bottom brackets hadn't frozen up or anything. they had comepletely smashed up. The LBS replaced them all with industrial strength bearings. 
moral. getting a bike from a dept store or online means you can fore go the service that an LBS can provide in situations like this. I had the bike back on the road in half a day.
when my first full sus bike was stolen, insurance paid for it went back to the lbs and they up graded my bike as the frame I had was no longer in production (fisher cake) so they upgraded to a fisher hifi deluxe and threw some carbon bar ends on as they didn't have any similar to the ones I used to have.
My LBS did a fitting as part of the service of buying the bike and the staff are always helpful when I buy or need stuff. They also run classes twice a month on basic bike maintenance that anyone can attend.
Just some thoughts to consider.


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