# How much bike for casual off road?



## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

Question for the group- How much bike for casual off road and trail use?

Looking to ride forest service roads, mild trails and the like. I am not interested in jumps, drops, stairs, racing or the like. 

Back in the mid 90s I started riding a Trek 830 Mountain Track in college. Cromoly frame, no suspension. Rode local trails. Pedal up the hill, ride down. Never any jumping, that was the BMX crowd. We just called it mountain biking. Was the only bike I knew.

Got to 40, sold it and bought a Trek 7000 hybrid. No suspension, 700x35c tires. In normal times about 1,500 miles a year. With work from home during Covid crisis I am now riding about 500 miles a month. Say 90% paved trails and the rest on crushed stone. I find the 700x35 tires do fine on that but really are out of their league in anything more.

Now I am at the 50 mark and fit. All the riding recently has got me thinking of a mountain bike again. Something I could take on rougher dirt roads, trail riding and the like. Still not interested in high speed downhill, jumping or extreme riding. 

I would call myself a casual rider. On my hybrid bike I seem to average about 10 mph. On a mountain bike I am interested more in pedaling to out of the way places. Say someplace off a forest service road. Maybe some easy local dirt trails. I am not interested in racing. I would probably put on a rack so I can take a camera, water and lunch with me. I also like a more upright riding position, one of the things I like about my current hybrid. I have no plans to part with it. For the paved trail rides it's perfect. I just might want a second bike to get beyond the pavement.

I wonder how much bike I need? I do realize that bike store inventory has been wiped out by people with similar thoughts. 

I see the newer hybrid models have moved up to 700x45 tires and often with more tread than what I have. Specialized Cross Roads as an example. Many even have very basic (I know really cheap) front forks.

Basic mountain bikes like Trek Marlin or Giant Talon look far different from my old 830. They at least look more aggressive in style and riding position. I see mostly older style 3x7 drive trains, low end forks and basic level Tourney components. 

Then much more advanced bikes with full suspension with price tags like motorcycles.

Many of the posts here seem to say a good bike has a $2,000 entry price. I might be cheap or naive but I am not keen on spending that much. It seems that might be the price for some hard core rider with goals of black level downhill rides. But that's not me nor my interest. I would still be cautious as a rider and stay on the easier stuff.

Some of the reasoning for this long post are i have never had a bike with suspension nor high level components. They were bikes. I just rode them. So I am not sure what the advantages of them are beyond less weight. My bike changed gear when I shifted. I went places. When I read about cheap front forks I do get they might have poor bounce and might be as jarring as a rigid bike. But not having used one I have no reference. I do know my current 7000 rigid Trek hybrid is very jarring anytime I take it off road at all.

So any thoughts on how much bike? Or what must it have?

Would a mid level hybrid with wide tires and a basic shock be enough?

Or a entry level mountain bike? Marlin 6 as a benchmark. 

I see components make a jump on a bike like the Giant Talon or Trek Marlin 7. I would maybe go to $800. Maybe. But I am not sure I need any of that.

Appreciate any information.

T


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Based on your intended use, I'd say any somewhat entry level reliable brand would suit your needs, and go with a HT. FS would be overkill unless your body is beaten and bruised.

I'm not sure if the supply of new bikes is yet being replenished.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Get a rigid fatbike.


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

Velobike said:


> Get a rigid fatbike.


Never even considered a fat bike. Guess I need to look into them.

Thanks!


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

Crankout said:


> Based on your intended use, I'd say any somewhat entry level reliable brand would suit your needs, and go with a HT. FS would be overkill unless your body is beaten and bruised.
> 
> I'm not sure if the supply of new bikes is yet being replenished.


That was kind of what I thought might be a good choice. But with the evolution of the sport and all the different options wanted to see what might be the best choice.

Trek, Specialized and Giant are all carried by local bike shops. Was even wondering if a Trek 820 might work. I know...it's cheap... I do kinda like the look as it does remind me of my old 830 and it looks to sit more upright.

More looking.

Thanks for the input!


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## SoDakSooner (Nov 23, 2005)

Might look at Salsa or Surly hardtails. Lots of attachment points for racks/bottles/etc.... Plus they are cool (IMO)

My local shop was able to get some Salsa bikes when everyone else was out of stock.


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## calimander (Feb 25, 2020)

eBay is a good place to look for quality used bikes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

https://reviews.mtbr.com/best-mountain-bikes-under-1000


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

No doubt those are nice but they really push that $2000 0rice I want to avoid.


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

I read that before posting. Gave some insight but I still think most articles and advice is to the rad downhill invincible 25 year old looking to conquer the mountain. I am more the relaxed rider so I wanted to see what else might work.


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

Not much for eBay or CL. But might look at options if I knew the right bike


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Here's a thought based on your needs and budget wishes.

Maybe go with a Trek 820 or similar and spend a few hundred bucks on a working fork like a RS Gold RL or anything with a working damper system. The frame will still be heavy AF but should be ok for it's intended use, plus getting a new, lightweight bike (and frame)for $400 is nearly impossible. This would at least make riding dirt trails do-albe without all the jarring going on in the front. Otherwise, go used bike route, check Pinkbike.

I had a 2005-ish 820 for years and claimed weight I think was around 34lbs but it felt waaay heavier to me. Stock wheelset probably weighed a ton. Would be easy to save weight there and it would make a big difference, but costs as much or more than the bike itself.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

I have a 2019 Talon 2. While I tend to ride mostly intermediate to advanced trails, I also do enjoy exploring fire roads, gravel roads, and two tracks. The Talon feels right at home on those type of surfaces. It has mounts for a rear rack as well. The one downside to the Talon, (and other bikes in this price range) is the cheap coil spring fork. They’re heavy, they bounce, and do no provide much if any relief for your hands and arms. 

If you jump up to the $1000 price point, you can get a bike with an air fork and other upgrades. I put a budget air fork on my Talon, it cost me another $250 on top of the purchase of the bike. Right there I’m at $1000. 

I understand your point of not wanting to go to a full $2k bike. But the difference between $800 and $1000-1200 bikes is huge. 

Check out the Giant Fathom. My son bought one, for the money it had really great parts.

I have no experience with this bike, but while shopping for my Fezzari, I did find this bike. Again, for $1000 it’s got a lot of big upgrades over the Talon and similar bikes. Air fork, boost spacing axles (stronger, and more options for replacement if you ever need to), 1x12 drivetrain with better parts than what’s on a Talon.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

From what i read, it doesnt sound like OP needs a heavy duty (not weight) trail bike. Something a bit above a hybrid/city bike. An entry level mountain bike. I personally wouldnt want to go back to rimbrakes, entry discs would be good. Cable actuated are low maintenance but theres a pretty big diff in feel with hydros. 
I dont know about a fatbike, to me those are more niche and better for if conditions you ride in dictate it, sand and snow. You pay a pretty big price in weight and drag. And some components that are uncommon.
Theres the new marketing category of gravel, which is kind of what you are seeing, road bike style but able to take quite wide tires. But if you like upright posture, these arent a good fit, unless you replaced the drops with straigh/riser bars.
I think a nice entry level mtb would be good. If 10mph is your typical, then lower gearing should be able to cover that and allow you to climb some good hills and dirt.


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## BManz2004 (Jun 25, 2020)

Look at hardtail fat bikes, but don't skimp on quality for price; there are good deals for $1500 and for a much better bike than what's at $1000 IMHO. Maybe try Craigslist for someone's Farly, Mukluk or Specialized Fatboy. 

I'm up there at the half century mark as well, and have been riding full suspension bikes for the last 15+ years, but not blasting down hills like I used to. I recently picked up a new 2019 closeout fat bike decently equipped (30lbs, Sram gear, hydraulic brakes, 26x4.6 tires, carbon fork) and love it. Set the psi at 12lbs (for my big guy weight) and this thing eats up the paved miles as well as smooths out the trails in between. 

It's simple and has handled the single track pretty well when I've opted to do those trails. Yes, there is more drag from the tires, and pedal stomping technique can give some bounce, but it's sooo comfy and I have the same no-fear with curbs and ruts as I did with my full suspension bikes. This will extend my riding time until I'm 6 feet under, I'm sure. Good luck and ride on!


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

Thanks for the reply. I had not considered fat bikes but will have to check a LBS to see what they ride like.


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

Good info. Appreciate the response. Good points on the different things like an air fork that make a difference. That helps as it lets me target the right things to need. 

Now if we can get past Covid and the bike shops get restocked.

In another thread someone mentioned there likely to be a lot of used bikes available come winter after the recent run on the stores and people get bored with them.


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

eatdrinkride said:


> Here's a thought based on your needs and budget wishes.
> 
> Maybe go with a Trek 820 or similar and spend a few hundred bucks on a working fork like a RS Gold RL or anything with a working damper system. The frame will still be heavy AF but should be ok for it's intended use, plus getting a new, lightweight bike (and frame)for $400 is nearly impossible. This would at least make riding dirt trails do-albe without all the jarring going on in the front. Otherwise, go used bike route, check Pinkbike.
> 
> I had a 2005-ish 820 for years and claimed weight I think was around 34lbs but it felt waaay heavier to me. Stock wheelset probably weighed a ton. Would be easy to save weight there and it would make a big difference, but costs as much or more than the bike itself.


Thanks for the input. Good advice. The fork was one areai knew could make a difference.

More research.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

TravTabb said:


> Good info. Appreciate the response. Good points on the different things like an air fork that make a difference. That helps as it lets me target the right things to need.
> 
> Now if we can get past Covid and the bike shops get restocked.
> 
> In another thread someone mentioned there likely to be a lot of used bikes available come winter after the recent run on the stores and people get bored with them.


Forgot the link to the bike I was talking about lol. Also the 27.5+ tires would be really nice. Not a fat bike, but more tire than a standard. That will provide you more cushion.

https://www.fezzari.com/cross-country/wasatch-peak-comp-27-5-plus


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

TravTabb said:


> That was kind of what I thought might be a good choice. But with the evolution of the sport and all the different options wanted to see what might be the best choice.
> 
> Trek, Specialized and Giant are all carried by local bike shops. Was even wondering if a Trek 820 might work. I know...it's cheap... I do kinda like the look as it does remind me of my old 830 and it looks to sit more upright.
> 
> ...


You'd be fine with any of those brands. Give them a good test ride and see how they feel.


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

Crankout said:


> You'd be fine with any of those brands. Give them a good test ride and see how they feel.


Thanks!


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## TravTabb (Jul 6, 2020)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> Forgot the link to the bike I was talking about lol. Also the 27.5+ tires would be really nice. Not a fat bike, but more tire than a standard. That will provide you more cushion.
> 
> https://www.fezzari.com/cross-country/wasatch-peak-comp-27-5-plus


That bike looks good. Given me more to look at.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

TravTabb said:


> Thanks for the reply. I had not considered fat bikes but will have to check a LBS to see what they ride like.


I think a fat bike, especially one with any suspension, is more than you need. I recommend a rigid plus bike, tubeless 29x3 or 27.5x 2.8 or so. Psi in the range of 12-18, depending on your weight and the riding surface. I like my Trek 1120, but since the price is prohibitive, maybe Pine Mountain by Marin, or something Surly or Salsa.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Of the choices suggested here, The Wasatch Peak looks to be the best deal by a bit.
Fezzari threw me off at first with their knock-off sounding name, but their bikes, and their reviews, are right up there with the best the big names offer.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Taroroot said:


> ...I dont know about a fatbike, to me those are more niche and better for if conditions you ride in dictate it, sand and snow. You pay a pretty big price in weight and drag. And some components that are uncommon...


Fatbikes don't have to be heavy, nor do they have to suffer drag.

Firstly weight. In the early days when there was not much variety, weight was an issue for some, but it's not obvious when you're riding.

The reality is a fat bike frame is only a few ounces heavier than a normal hardtail. There are light components generally available now. The end result is a fatbike does not have to be heavy. Even 10 years ago my 907 weighed 26lbs and I could have easily knocked a couple of pounds off that by going tubeless and spending more on weight weenie componentry.

As for drag, that comes to the most important part of a fat bike, the tyres. Unless you are going to be mud plugging you do not need heavily lugged tyres for general trail use. The other and probably most important feature to seek is a high tpi figure which is a measure of how supple the tyre is. A tyre that is not supple is like dragging sandbags.

There's absolutely no reason that a fat bike should weigh much more or be harder to pedal than an equivalent rigid hardtail.

The benefits of going for a rigid fat bike is that there's no money wasted on an expensive and heavy suspension fork and it has enormous capability.

With a small budget, It would be worth looking at a quality secondhand bike, and replacing the tyres with high tpi tyres with small lugs and converting it to tubeless.


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

TravTabb said:


> Good info. Appreciate the response. Good points on the different things like an air fork that make a difference. That helps as it lets me target the right things to need.
> 
> Now if we can get past Covid and the bike shops get restocked.
> 
> In another thread someone mentioned there likely to be a lot of used bikes available come winter after the recent run on the stores and people get bored with them.


Same problem here, my local shops have almost no bikes. In her area in Michigan they didn't have anything suitable in her size either. It was a bad thing because my daughter lost her bike off her bike carrier on the highway and it was destroyed. I managed to find one for on BikeExchange.com via a shop in Knoxville. It was a win/win, they unloaded a 2018 and my daughter gets to ride this summer.


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

Velobike said:


> Fatbikes don't have to be heavy, nor do they have to suffer drag.
> 
> Firstly weight. In the early days when there was not much variety, weight was an issue for some, but it's not obvious when you're riding.
> 
> ...


All of this. My local trails and favorite travel trails are not super technical. My fully rigid fat is very fun. I am running Terrene Wazia Lite tires (26x4), the lugs are big but still roll great. I have run the Kenda Juggernaut Pros which are very light and I liked but they don't bite into loose material over hard packed trails very well (which I encounter a lot).


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

iliketexmex said:


> ...I have run the Kenda Juggernaut Pros which are very light and I liked but they don't bite into loose material over hard packed trails very well (which I encounter a lot).


Big lugs are pointless on a tyre that runs at 8psi or less. They're never going to bite into anything other than very soft surfaces unless your run far higher psi, at which point your bike is likely to start bouncing like a basketball...

My opinion is that small lugs are all that's needed for most riding. You get most of your grip from the low pressure allowing the tyre to conform to the irregularities on the trail.

I have a set of big lug tyres, but they're just for my mud and bog rides.


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

Definitely feel the difference between the two. Maybe it is the solid here but my treads leave different marks because I still have the bike set up with the Juggernauts and my son rides with me on it.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Velobike said:


> Get a rigid fatbike.


yep...b/c you can always put smaller tires on a fat bike, but not the other way around!!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

DeadGrandpa said:


> I think a fat bike, especially one with any suspension, is more than you need. I recommend a rigid plus bike, tubeless 29x3 or 27.5x 2.8 or so. Psi in the range of 12-18, depending on your weight and the riding surface. I like my Trek 1120, but since the price is prohibitive, maybe Pine Mountain by Marin, or something Surly or Salsa.


I bought a Surly Krampus...29+. Rigid. I am 51, and ride in Ohio/Michigan mostly. Rocky rooty singletrack, gravel roads, paved trails, mud, snow, gravel....there is not terrain that my Krampus has not been great on.

I don't race. I don't bomb down hills...sort of. I am not a weight weenie.

I wanted a bike that would be a tank. Solid. Versatile....

the Surly Karate Money would be the 27+ version...


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

I built a sweet 23lb hard tail 29er for about 2000 using a chiner CF frame and all eagle GX 10-50 drivetrain, and a fox34 performance 140 suspension. 

Just did 50 miles on it yesterday, love it for easy stuff when my full suspension is not needed.


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