# how to pivot on my back wheel . . .



## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

This is a very simple question (less than an extended answer but more than a yes/no), but by asking here I'll get tips on how to do it really well.

So I was pivoting on my front wheel the other day, and lately I've gotten much better at it so I can do it pretty high and turn about 110 degrees most of the time (a couple times I've achieved the full 180) and getting better at not dabbing, but then I found when I landed if I grab the rear brake before I come down, I get jacked up on my back wheel. 

Sooooo, is pivoting from there just like pivoting on the front, or is there any more involoved to do it succesfully? 

Also, I'm not having too good a time pivoting from my back wheel without the momentum of coming back from my front wheel.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

You mean once the endo 180 is done you want to roll it out fakie and pivot it back, am I getting you right?


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

no, I ride fakie about as well as chinese people can drive . . .

I mean pivot around front wheel, pivot back around back wheel without rolling anywhere.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

dirtyharry said:


> no, I ride fakie about as well as chinese people can drive . . .


That's a bunch of crap. People and their damn stereotypes. I can drift circles around you. I can straight up destroy in a drag race.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> That's a bunch of crap. People and their damn stereotypes. I can drift circles around you. I can straight up destroy in a drag race.


haha OH SNAP.....


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

he cant drive will but serioulsy people and stereotypes, look at drift secene, most of the people are asian on there, but off of racist comments, come in like your going to spin an air(swrving in to get momentum for the spin, turn the front wheel HARD and grab the front brake and spin. i got to the point when i spin on my trials byke, i can get 270º or so, its time and patience


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Pssh, he doesn't need to be able to drive for me to drift circles around him.


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> That's a bunch of crap. People and their damn stereotypes. I can drift circles around you. I can straight up destroy in a drag race.


its called a joke,, sometimes people make them..


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

fiddy_ryder said:


> its called a joke,, sometimes people make them..


I hardly think he was joking. It's called stereotyping, and people do it all too often.


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> I hardly think he was joking. It's called stereotyping, and people do it all too often.


you know what keeps sterotypes alive, people responding to them like you did. people tend to quit the BS when they can no longer get a rise out of someone. its like poking a bear. would it be any fun if the bear didnt give a sh1t and not want to rip you a new a$shole? probably not


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Stereotypes and symbolism: Images can Hurt

Consider...
What do you think of white people?

It's a simple enough question. If you're white, as I am, you may have just experienced the intellectual equivalent of dead air. "There are all sorts", you might say. Indeed, Hitler was white. So was Thomas Jefferson. Mario Cuomo still is. Perhaps you don't hold stereotypes of your race.

Rest assured that people of other races may well have stereotypes of you.

A closer look
Stereotypes are powerful and omnipresent. They are part of how we judge others, which we do quickly. Race, gender, hair style - people may get one chance to make a good first impression, and perhaps not even that, because stereotypes may stand in the way. Let's look at a few examples.

There are myriad stereotypes of Black people in America. If you're old enough, you may remember the television character "J.J", played by comedian Jimmie Walker in the 1970's sitcom Good Times. A wise-cracking young Black man, he was criticized as "television's most visible young African American male, [yet] he was devoid of any signs of maturity or intelligence." (Cose).

It doesn't stop there. Stereotypes of Blacks include: arrogant, athletic, devious, dirty, dishonest, drug addicts, "having rhythm", incompetent, inferior, lazy, unintelligent, noisy, passive, poor, primitive, untrustworthy, and violent. (Shipler).

If you're Black, that's quite a lot to overcome if you meet someone holding on to those stereotypes.

It works both ways. Some of the stereotypes of white Americans include: assertive, cold, dishonest, evil, greedy, lacking athleticism, lacking rhythm, lusting for power, racist, untrustworthy, smart, and unclean. (Shipler). If you are white, as I am, consider that the next time you meet an African-American.

But stereotyping isn't a White/Black issue. Hispanic Americans are considered more likely than (non-Hispanic) whites to prefer welfare to employment, and to be lazy, violence-prone, unintelligent and unpatriotic. (Cose). Perhaps you've heard of "Asian overachievers", a reference to those who take the pursuit of excellence in their education too seriously - presumably by those who don't. Israeli Arabs sometimes consider Israeli Jews as dishonest - and vice versa - a mutual distrust extending to Russians vs. Georgians, Cambodians vs. Vietnamese, etc. (Shipler). And Americans are subjected to a barrage of images daily - cover photos of healthy, fit young men and women help sell magazines, after all. Normal people without the build, genes or workout regimen suffer in comparison - what is your first impression of someone you consider overweight?

Of course we're going somewhere with this. Native Americans face extraordinarily powerful stereotypes. One author sums it up this way:

Depictions of American Indians usually fall into two general categories.

The good Indian ... has a handsome physique, unusual stamina, and calm, dignified bearing. He is brave in combat, and devoted to his family ... he lives in harmony with nature.

The bad Indian is lazy and lecherous, a slippery-fingered thief ... he is constantly on the warpath to get revenge on his enemies. (Spindel).

Sources of stereotypes
Where do these images come from? For Black Americans, beliefs that they are dishonest, prone to steal, promiscuous and violent are "not new portraits. They date from the time of slavery." (Shipler). Television reinforces some of these images - consider "J.J." - but occasionally brings the counter example. The character of Theo in the 1980's Cosby Show "was a marked departure from the typical ghetto youth of the TV past." (Cose).

The mass media communicates "a particular group of visual stereotypes of womanhood and manhood ... that stand for not just gender ideals but also issues of what it means to be 'typically' American and what it takes to have status in American culture." (Shipler).

Native American stereotypes are well entrenched, and perpetuate the image of the Indian of over 100 years ago.

Generations of Wild West shows and Hollywood films created an iconographic Indian modeled on idealized versions of the craggy-featured Northern Plains warrior of the mid-nineteenth century." (Bordewich).

Further, Native American stereotypes have "been burned into the global consciousness by fifty years of mass media." (Pewewardy). Westerns still run on television, and of course there are still '50s cartoons playing that show warlike Indians. Native American CEOs, artists, architects ... just don't fit the picture.

Once in place, stereotypes tend to have a life of their own. "Many interactions between American Indians and non-Indians serve to affirm stereotypes because people are looking for information to confirm their stereotypes", write authors Poupart and Becker. "Non-Indians overlook an abundance of information and interactions that run counter to stereotypes and there is not really an interaction going on."

What if a major "source" of information is imagery such as Chief Illiniwek? His likeness is not limited to the football field, but extends to business storefronts, University licensed clothing, etc.

Stereotypes have power
Symbols, and the stereotypes that they represent, are powerful - perhaps deceptively so, for those who are not being stereotyped.

A symbol is "a single powerful image, a mark of visual shorthand that stands for a bundle of beliefs and ideas ... the cross for Christian belief, the American flag not only for our country but also for our feelings about it..." (Spindel).

For Black Americans, the television character "J.J." was powerful - and harmful. Co-star Esther Rolle on Good Times told Ebony that "I resent the imagery that says to Black kids that you can make it by standing on the corner saying "Dyn-o-mite!" (Cose).

What of the Chief?

Authors C. R. King and C. F. Springwood write:

"These Indian mascots conceptually freeze Native Americans, reducing them to rigid, flat renderings of their diverse cultures and histories."

"These kinds of images dehumanize and demonize Native Americans, constraining the ability of the non-Indian community to relate to Indians as contemporary, significant, and real human actors." (King and Springwood).

Not only does the Chief represent an archaic image of Native Americans, he helps lock that image in the minds of non-Indians. When you meet a Native American, perhaps you think of - the Chief?

This image also carries power and control over Native people, by changing the social environment around them. "Stereotyping and power are mutually reinforcing", writes Cornel Pewewardy, "because stereotyping itself exerts control, maintaining and justifying the status quo."

Such is the power and persistence of the non-Indian stereotype of Native Americans that historian Robert Berkhofer coined the phrase White Man's Indian - "the Indian of the Euro-American imagination." (Bordewich).

The future
Where do we go from here? Imagery such as the Chief helps keep us rooted in the past - the mid-nineteenth century past.

Celebrated musician Carlos Nakai: "What I do is primarily not related to a predisposition to reiterate what we were at one time but to look toward the future." (Nakai, 2003).

We must move on from symbols such as the Chief.

Only by abandoning many long-held, often lovingly-held, myths and fantasies ... will we become able to shape a healthy national policy for peoples whose real life is far more complex, and interesting, than our persistent fantasies." (Bordewich).

The Chief is rooted in the past. He is a symbol and powerful stereotype of Native American life in the mid 1800's. Continuing use of the Chief as a University of Illinois symbol perpetuates an outdated image which tends to place today's Native Americans in the distant past, and which reinforces that outdated image in the eyes of non-Indians.

It is time - actually, it is past time. Isn't it time to retire the Chief? •


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Stereotypes and symbolism: Images can Hurt
> 
> Consider...
> What do you think of white people?
> ...


theres no way in hell anyone on this board is going to read all that....


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## Lickqid (Aug 9, 2005)

i'm working on pivoting on my back wheel now, one thing thats helped me massively, stay low, lowwwww


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

free rider said:


> theres no way in hell anyone on this board is going to read all that....


True that. I'll be honest, I didn't even read all that.

Stereotyping IS wrong. And there are no excuses to justify it. Stereotyping IS racism.

Don't defend dirtyharry, let him speak for himself.

If it's two buddies playing around, I got no problem with that. My friends call me "Asia" or "Asian Manwhore" etc. But just saying it for the hell of it is plain ignorance and exceptional disrespect. If you've got to hate somebody, hate them for who they are, not what ethnicity, or race, or gender.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> "Asian Manwhore"


i dont want to know


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

free rider said:


> i dont want to know


I've been around and slept with my fair share of women. I thought "player" was more appropriate, but hey, whatever.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> I've been around and slept with my fair share of women. I thought "player" was more appropriate, but hey, whatever.


haha, this thread went so ot so fast....from pivots, to xsl's sexual adventures


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Should we go into detail? Haha.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Should we go into detail? Haha.


:nonod:


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## tjfox87 (May 18, 2006)

ok people stop *****ing like little girls about stereotypes seriously, listen to this "everyone's a little bit racist sometimes, but that doesn't mean we go around commiting hate crimes" it's from a musical called Avenue Q, gary coleman is in talking about how his money was stolen by his folks and he laughs about it. everyone will make stereotype jokes, get over it, if you can honestly say that you have never said anything stereotypical then your lying. get over it, maybe it was stupid to say w/e. just drop it, stop acting like a little school girl and help this man out with this thread. we have a common goal, to mountain bike, why ruin it? i'm sorry i can't but i had to say something. my best guess is to pull as far back as possible, if u lose balance step off and do it again, thats what my friend does.
---Todd


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## bitterrider (Sep 21, 2006)

Yeah pivoting in my garage is about all I can do right now in the kinda snowy, but really shizzy michigan winter.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

tjfox87 said:


> ok people stop *****ing like little girls about stereotypes seriously, listen to this "everyone's a little bit racist sometimes, but that doesn't mean we go around commiting hate crimes" it's from a musical called Avenue Q, gary coleman is in talking about how his money was stolen by his folks and he laughs about it. everyone will make stereotype jokes, get over it, if you can honestly say that you have never said anything stereotypical then your lying. get over it, maybe it was stupid to say w/e. just drop it, stop acting like a little school girl and help this man out with this thread. we have a common goal, to mountain bike, why ruin it? i'm sorry i can't but i had to say something. my best guess is to pull as far back as possible, if u lose balance step off and do it again, thats what my friend does.
> ---Todd


damn white people and thier problem solving attempts....mind your buisness vanilla face 

jk, dont start another argument


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## f0ggy (Jul 5, 2006)

freakin crackers.....  will dont take it personaly, there are just as many bad white drivers as black, asian or whatever, chillllllll


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Haha, well, I'm glad that we can take humor out of all this.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

oh, sorry, I was just using it as a comparison . . . stupid american me!


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

you're one to talk . . . 

There's no reason to get steamed over that.  It was a steotypical comment meant for humor and as a comparison to my riding fakie ability. So stay of the 'roids! 

Speaking of that, how long did you spend to give that post Will? 

If you really want the bad drivers, watch the suburban white mothers in minivans!


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

dirtyharry said:


> you're one to talk . . .
> 
> There's no reason to get steamed over that.  It was a steotypical comment meant for humor and as a comparison to my riding fakie ability. So stay of the 'roids!
> 
> ...


I'm one to talk? What? Because I think that stereotypes are detrimental to society as a whole?

There is absolutely reason for me to protest that. It is NOT acceptable. It is ignorant and disrpectful. As is telling me to "stay of the 'roids!" BTW, a little bit of spelling goes a long way.

Copy and paste.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

i new this thread would get crazy fast as soon as i read that first comment. steryotypes are lame.


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## chuffer (Apr 15, 2004)

being a soft skinned uptight little pussy is cool now? if you think that this comment is aimed at you, then maybe it is...

oh yeah, to pivot on your back wheel (or on your front wheel) you have to lead with your head. Look over your shoulder in the direction you wanna spin, turn your shoulders in that direction and pull.

p.s. I've been called ******, gaijin, ******, ******, etc. enough to realize that if you can't shrug it off, you're in for a long hard life.


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## ihatemybike (Nov 27, 2005)

Yea Stereotypes!

I'm Dutch, I'm gonna smoke weed, put on wooden shoes, only pay for my half of the meal on a date, hire a legal prostitute, sell some tulips, then go plug a dike.


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## ihatemybike (Nov 27, 2005)

Oh and for the record the Dutch are from the Netherlands, which North and South Holland are 2 of 12 provinces.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

Will, I'm sorry if that seriously offended you. I was just being stupid again I guess, but it's not like I hurt you or sent you anthrax . . .

If it'd make you feel better I'll send you a buck in the mail . . .


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Yeah? And I've been called a variety of things too. Probably on a more frequent basis than you. Apparently it's alright, because I'm an "outsider" and it's not "my country." Okay... Right... I am probably one of the most white-washed Chinese people out there. Hell, I even drive domestic cars over imports.

It's easier to clock somebody in the face than to put up with that bullcrap.

Words hurt man, words hurt.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Just chiming in to laugh at XSL's nickname. I'm going to use it from now on. JK.


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## InnovateorDie (Sep 25, 2006)

I'm sorry but when reading this thread, I couldn't help but thinking about Tokyo Drift.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

InnovateorDie said:


> I'm sorry but when reading this thread, I couldn't help but thinking about Tokyo Drift.


never seen it, but judging by the previews, I'm sure it was an indepth philosophical and ethical examination of racism in the world today. Must have been a heart touching experience to lay eyes upon that theatrical masterpiece. 
I bet none of it was even in Tokyo, and probably none of the actors were even Japanese, but hell, the main audience of NA wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between any asians in the first place. Obviously Hollywood knows more about it's audience than we expect.... and shows where they cut the budget. man, the cars probably weren't even real either, just fake highly/overly decorated shells covering some p.o.s. stock cars.



ihatemybike said:


> I'm Dutch, I'm gonna smoke weed, put on wooden shoes, only pay for my half of the meal on a date, hire a legal prostitute, sell some tulips, then go plug a dike.


hell, I'd have some pride if that was my daily routine too. 

This has got to be one of the most derailled threads on this section of the forum... swerve factor just hit the dime mark.


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## InnovateorDie (Sep 25, 2006)

No it just reminded me of it cause of how XSL Will talked about how he could drift circles around him. Yeah, you kinda need to watch it to get it.


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

chuffer said:


> if you can't shrug it off, you're in for a long hard life.


i hear ya, im white but the target of neggative comments due to my lifestyle (east coast hardcore/oi punker etc), called a *** all that stuff, and ive done more than my fair share with the opposite gender. will, dirtyharry isnt racist, he just wasnt thinking when he posted it, real clean cut kid, use your head zach, mtbr isnt all white people.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

on the stereotyping subject. . .

Will, just believe me when I say I regret my choice of words . . . That's not a lie. They didn't really mean anything when I posted them, just a sort of first thing that came to mind, and since everyone will be aware of the chinese=bad driver stereotype, I figured they'd understand the connection between that and my ability to ride fakie. Now they took away from the actual point of the topic, and i've had to disect all of this to find the actual riding tips. So, lay of this topic if you will people. it's just plain silly in a DJ/Urban forum. I'll lay off any stereotypical comparisons . . . Be intelligent about it (i'm one to talk )

okay, so back to the topic . . .

when I try and pivot, I sort of lose my balance and don't go anywhere. My front end isn't pivoting! Wah . . . So anyway, I'm pointing my head, but the bike isn't following. 

I'd post videos, but me have no camera . . .


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

dirtyharry said:


> when I try and pivot, I sort of lose my balance and don't go anywhere. My front end isn't pivoting! Wah . . . So anyway, I'm pointing my head, but the bike isn't following.
> 
> I'd post videos, but me have no camera . . .


man, don't you realize. open your eyes! The man is holding you back! your harry is all dirty bro. How can you expect to be able to set that spin free when these librarians are suppressing your people? Find that balance while big brother is watching and they'll come right outta left field and take you down one notch before you even left the ground. fight the power son! get up, stand up, raise your fist and march around! can't be spinnin' about all day like you don't see these things going on, you got to free yourself first, before the spin comes about.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Hey dirtyharry, thanks for apologizing. Takes a real man to do that. Mad respect for that.

As for Tokyo drift, they really did have some world class drifters in that movie. Still stupid though. I drift for fun and for show.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

i kinda feel sorry for that guy who started this tread trying to learn a trick, and then this happened. haha


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

I believe XSL that you may drift, but can you do it with a fresh load of tofu in your 86 in the touge, therein lies the question....


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Epschoenly said:


> I believe XSL that you may drift, but can you do it with a fresh load of tofu in your 86 in the touge, therein lies the question....


Depends... Is it a panda AE86 Trueno with a Group A motor that can rev up to 11k?

I love all the kids buying these FR Corollas thinking that it's going to make them drift like a pro. All in all, it's still an underpowered machine designed around economy. The only thing that it has going for it is it's light weight and decent weight distribution.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

okay . . . you manage to always confuse me with such talk . . .

so, about the pivoting, is it an issue of how much I direct with my head, or, am I doing something wrong that I'm not aware of?


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## tele (Sep 3, 2006)

***ommitted***


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Hey dirtyharry, thanks for apologizing. Takes a real man to do that. Mad respect for that.
> 
> As for Tokyo drift, they really did have some world class drifters in that movie. Still stupid though. I drift for fun and for show.


FWD cars in the snow drift very well, I know this for a fact.

Man I love drifting.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Epschoenly said:


> I believe XSL that you may drift, but can you do it with a fresh load of tofu in your 86 in the touge, therein lies the question....


haha, nice. is that a challenge for tak to attempt? tune in next episode to fine out how he fares against the red suns...

a friend took me out to some mountain races in Wakayama-ken two years ago... was just there to watch... those guys have absolutely no regard for their cars, tearing off fascias on every corner just trying to get the pass... you can always tell the real drifters in the cities just driving around, since their cars have different colored body panels and usually even different weighted wheels on every corner...


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

umm, could somebody actually reply to the topic?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

snaky69 said:


> FWD cars in the snow drift very well, I know this for a fact.
> 
> Man I love drifting.


I strongly believe that the average and even above average driver cannot drift an FF car. Most people that are "drifting" are just ripping the hand-brake, breaking traction, and sliding. Drifting an FF takes an incredible amount of skill and power. That said, I am getting closer to a scandinavian flick with the Malibu. But again, it's really more for show.

If you're going in reverse or riding on trays, that's a completely different story. Haha.

My car of choice is probably still the 300zx TT. Even after massive weight reductions, it's a relatively heavy car. But I love the ride.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> I strongly believe that the average and even above average driver cannot drift an FF car. Most people that are "drifting" are just ripping the hand-brake, breaking traction, and sliding. Drifting an FF takes an incredible amount of skill and power. That said, I am getting closer to a scandinavian flick with the Malibu. But again, it's really more for show.
> 
> If you're going in reverse or riding on trays, that's a completely different story. Haha.
> 
> My car of choice is probably still the 300zx TT. Even after massive weight reductions, it's a relatively heavy car. But I love the ride.


Yeah, hand-brake to get it going, but when it's off it's off, and the only way to bring it back around is using the throttle and steering.

I can get it drifting in snow without the handbrake but it's a PITA. I have also drifted in a subaru, man those are nice.


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## tele (Sep 3, 2006)

tele said:


> I recently read an email about who you would choose for your president of your country and they listed a description of 3 ppl. I think I deleted the email but I'm at work and can't access hotmail.... anyway the basics of it were that the first person was into alcohol and drugs throughout school, the second person was a theif/wife beater and the 3rd was an honours graduate and highly religious... (I made these examples up to prove my point so they are not accurate but helps my point)... Anyway most people tend to pick the 3rd person.
> 
> you then scroll down the email and the first person is George Bush, the Second is Abraham Lincoln and the 3rd was Adolf Hitler.
> 
> if anyone has this email please post it.


Here it is:

>It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote 
counts. 
> 
> 
>Here are the facts about the three candidates. 
> 
> 
>Candidate A. 
> 
>Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with 
astrologist. He's 
>had two mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10 
martinis a day. 
> 
> 
>Candidate B. 
> 
>He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium 
in college 
>and drinks a quart of whiskey every evening. 
> 
>Candidate C. 
> 
>He is a decorated war hero. He's a vegetarian, doesn't smoke, 
drink an 
>occasional beer and never cheated on his wife. 
> 
> 
>Which of these candidates would be your choice? Decide first... 
no peeking 
>then scroll down for the response. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Candidate A is Franklin D. Roosevelt. 
> 
>Candidate B is Winston Churchill. 
> 
>Candidate C is Adolph Hitler.

And sorry, but I didn't feel it was worth starting a new thread after a bunch of ppl were discussing it..... solution: scroll past this thread....

ps. I know you were just trying to be funny but you have to be weary of what you post..... you never know whose reading and who you will offend..... I mean you did just stereotype about 2.5 billion people.....


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

XSL_WiLL said:


> I strongly believe that the average and even above average driver cannot drift an FF car. Most people that are "drifting" are just ripping the hand-brake, breaking traction, and sliding. Drifting an FF takes an incredible amount of skill and power. That said, I am getting closer to a scandinavian flick with the Malibu. But again, it's really more for show.
> 
> If you're going in reverse or riding on trays, that's a completely different story. Haha.
> 
> My car of choice is probably still the 300zx TT. Even after massive weight reductions, it's a relatively heavy car. But I love the ride.


man, it depends on your car. You just plow into a corner faster than you think it can handle it, then abruptly let off the gas while turning in sharper, then if needed, gas it a little bit more when turning in, if the wheels get traction it should pull the front end while the g's are pulling the rear end out... but like I said, if you are tyring this with basic family car, who knows how it is weighted f/r...
but, I see nothing wrong with e-brakage, breaks it loose if you need, and in situations where an ff could otherwise not be drifted (slow speed) but comes down to how you can handle it once broken loose.

but I have some pity for you bro... with that malibu, ouch... quite a few years ago, I worked a job at a GM stock yard, as a porter, just driving cars unloaded from rail cars, to other lots/lines in a giant expansive yard to other corresponding lines for different rail cars to ship out... Drove everything from brand new (just out at the time) Caddie CTS's to Firebirds, to malubus and regals, lesabres, etc.... malibus were horrible imo... I grew to hate fwd at that time.. We would all FIGHT and RUN if we saw a CTS that was a stick comin' off the line or a f-bird... man, even funner in the snow, cuz there was reason to drift these BRAND NEW cars and tell the boss, "hey, it was slippery", and they didn't give an f either way as long as you got it in the right line to go to the right state on time. So, for those of you who think you are getting a "NEW" virgin car that may only have like 3 miles on it, think again, especially if I, or one of my crewmates got a handle on it, hahahahaha... 500 mile break in period on the clutch... HA! I glazed'em on a 300ft stretch! oh man.... good memories. and i wasn't even near the worst of the crews... there were dudes workin' who would just talk about back in the day doing all kinds of "ludes" and other random tranquilizers in the 70's... etc... check your car over carefully at the dealership. :eekster:


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> man, it depends on your car. You just plow into a corner faster than you think it can handle it, then abruptly let off the gas while turning in sharper, then if needed, gas it a little bit more when turning in, if the wheels get traction it should pull the front end while the g's are pulling the rear end out... but like I said, if you are tyring this with basic family car, who knows how it is weighted f/r...
> but, I see nothing wrong with e-brakage, breaks it loose if you need, and in situations where an ff could otherwise not be drifted (slow speed) but comes down to how you can handle it once broken loose.
> 
> but I have some pity for you bro... with that malibu, ouch... quite a few years ago, I worked a job at a GM stock yard, as a porter, just driving cars unloaded from rail cars, to other lots/lines in a giant expansive yard to other corresponding lines for different rail cars to ship out... Drove everything from brand new (just out at the time) Caddie CTS's to Firebirds, to malubus and regals, lesabres, etc.... malibus were horrible imo... I grew to hate fwd at that time.. We would all FIGHT and RUN if we saw a CTS that was a stick comin' off the line or a f-bird... man, even funner in the snow, cuz there was reason to drift these BRAND NEW cars and tell the boss, "hey, it was slippery", and they didn't give an f either way as long as you got it in the right line to go to the right state on time. So, for those of you who think you are getting a "NEW" virgin car that may only have like 3 miles on it, think again, especially if I, or one of my crewmates got a handle on it, hahahahaha... 500 mile break in period on the clutch... HA! I glazed'em on a 300ft stretch! oh man.... good memories. and i wasn't even near the worst of the crews... there were dudes workin' who would just talk about back in the day doing all kinds of "ludes" and other random tranquilizers in the 70's... etc... check your car over carefully at the dealership. :eekster:


It's true that a lot of depends on the car. But more than anything, it depends on the driver. That is pretty much how I drive the Bu. I let the rear end slide out on the corners, trying to pivot it on the front wheels. I'm pretty decent with the footwork, but watching some of the pros makes me almost want to cry. I give yuppies hell. But still, in just about every FF car I've driven, it's never felt like drifting. To me, drifting feels so fluid, natural, and fun. In an FF, it seems like all I'm ever doing it fighting the understeer.

The Bu is my daily driver. For what it's supposed to be, it gets the job done. Beaten a few Mustangs GTs and 5.0s, a bunch of rice burners. For what it's worth, most of them were stick, and most of them had no concept of powerband. Body roll was rediculous, did front and rear strut tower braces for now, plan on drop springs soon. 3.1L with CAI and PCM tune. I bought the car knowing it had a bad cylinder, so a new motor went in for real cheap. It was supposed to get an LT1 motor... but the motor "got lost." So I got stuck with another 3100 since I didn't feel the 3400 was worth the extra weight. I duno, I don't want to spend too much on the car. After all, it is my daily driver.

For a while, I was driving a 240sx. I had a '96 Impala SS for all of a week. I was driving my buddy's 300zx that I was doing work on. Had the oppurtunity to drive quite a few FRs and AWDs.


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