# lightweight spokes



## fxrextreme (Mar 11, 2015)

Hi all. I'm interested in any weight weenie clydes who have built up wheels with lightweight spokes.im wondering whether spokes broke or the rim failed?
Thanks


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

that would entirely depend on the spokes, the rim, the number of spokes, the quality of the wheel build, and of course the weight of the rider and what kind of riding they do. 

try being a little more specific and narrowing it down a bit. 26", 27.5", 29", 700c? are these race wheels or just everyday wheels? how much do you weigh? what do you consider lightweight spokes? what kind of riding do you do? etc.

you'll get much better answers this way.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

If you're that weight weenie and a clyde then you're probably too crazy to hang out on here! There is a place between weight and durability and for clydes the wheels are usually closer to durability. If weight loss is a target then personal bodyweight will be cheaper and bring better results than components.


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## fxrextreme (Mar 11, 2015)

I think you can have different views on what constitutes a weight weenie! I weigh 250 and I have a foes fxr which I use for fast xc.without sacrificing anything silly I have got the weight below 30lbs.
At the moment the wheels are Mavic en321 on hope hubs with db spokes. I have never had a wheel even go out of true and I was wondering what would happen if I had the spokes changed to something like dt revolutions by a top wheelbiilder?
Take the mick if you want to but its a serious question.
I don't intend on changing rims or hubs.
Ta


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

If you weight 250lb and have a wheelset you are happy with...DO NOT CHANGE A THING!! Just DON'T!


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## Guest (May 8, 2015)

Clydish myself. I wouldn't go with alloy nips but I've had good luck with 14/15 double taper spokes on 32h hubs. I like Wheelsmith spokes but use DT too. Personally, I'd been building wheels since my first cruiser build in 1977, to date I've never broken a spoke in the middle, always at the threads or the J-bend. I won't use anything but natural spokes either. Don't want to reopen the "anodizing" discussion, but to me "less" is "more" when it comes to building wheels that last. At #250 I don't think I'd go to revolutions on the rear wheel.


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## fxrextreme (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks for the open minded answer! So do you think I could get away with revs on the front wheel? As for alloy nipples,I have used nothing else for the last 25ish years without a problem!
Ta


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Right now, two of my bikes have DT Supercomps on the front wheels and Comps on the rear wheels. My 29er has brass nipples and my fat bike has brass on the rear and alloy up front. 32 spokes, 3 cross. ZERO wheel problems. 
I weigh 240. I haven't broken a spoke or a nipple since I started building my own wheels. 
I used to break nipples all the time on factory built wheels.


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## Guest (May 8, 2015)

fxrextreme said:


> Thanks for the open minded answer! So do you think I could get away with revs on the front wheel? As for alloy nipples,I have used nothing else for the last 25ish years without a problem!
> Ta


 DT doesn't list a table of recommended uses or weights, so I'm speculating. But generally front wheels have less stress than rear (driving forces+braking forces+more weight bias, etc) so I think you'll be okay. It probably depends on where and how you ride and on the quality of your build/maintenance over time. In other words, if you ride a lot of jumps/drops on hard surfaces or you tend to let your wheels go a long time between tune-ups or tension checks, heavier is better. If you tension the wheels correctly and ride them for their purpose, probably okay. Keep in mind that an 2g impact doubles the rider weight, so a 135 pounder off a high jump could be imparting short term loads of several times their own weight. That is off-set by the moment of impact and suspension travel (i.e. tires compressing and shocks compressing spread the impact over a few milliseconds lessoning the forces exerted on the wheel). Typically the front wheel bears less of the brunt of a hard landing (even on full-suspension bikes).


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

I only make light of it because you're into diminishing returns. My Turner Sultan in XXL weighed 30lbs before I put a dropper post on and that bike was built for strength. 
The lightest spokes I found are Sapim XC, the lightest steel aero spokes made @3.6g. The heaviest are DT Champion at 6.94g. DT Revs are 4.47g. Even if your wheels had those heavy spokes you'd save at best 80g per wheel and that doesn't seem a lot for the investment.


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## AdustytrunkMonkey (Apr 28, 2015)

Any rough idea on how much weight I can save if I switch my spokes from 2/1.8/2 competition spokes to Dt revolutions 2/1.5/2? These are 29er spokes so they would be on the 292-294mm range. Any thoughts? I do want to add that both front and rear are 32 hole. I'm thinking of going w/ revolutions because they are fairly cheap individually at my lbs!


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## blkangel (Aug 8, 2014)

AdustytrunkMonkey said:


> Any rough idea on how much weight I can save if I switch my spokes from 2/1.8/2 competition spokes to Dt revolutions 2/1.5/2? These are 29er spokes so they would be on the 292-294mm range. Any thoughts? I do want to add that both front and rear are 32 hole. I'm thinking of going w/ revolutions because they are fairly cheap individually at my lbs!


DT Swiss lists the weights of all their products on their site.

DT Swiss - Overview


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Not the exact spokes you're talking about, but one time, I weighed Comps vs Supercomps because someone was making a big deal about the weight. 
The Supercomps were ONE GRAM lighter apiece than comps. 
So... 32 grams per wheel. Big deal.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

I'll chime in as a 240lb rider on wheels with 28 spokes in the rear and 24 in the front, all DT Revs. Roval Fattie SL's. Roval claims the increased rim size permits fewer spokes to be used and stiffness can be maintained. Haven't had them that long so we will see about longevity.


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## fxrextreme (Mar 11, 2015)

Alias530 said:


> I'll chime in as a 240lb rider on wheels with 28 spokes in the rear and 24 in the front, all DT Revs. Roval Fattie SL's. Roval claims the increased rim size permits fewer spokes to be used and stiffness can be maintained. Haven't had them that long so we will see about longevity.


Have you put any miles on those wheels yet?
Ta


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

NYrr496 said:


> Not the exact spokes you're talking about, but one time, I weighed Comps vs Supercomps because someone was making a big deal about the weight.
> The Supercomps were ONE GRAM lighter apiece than comps.
> So... 32 grams per wheel. Big deal.


This mindset is the reason that people end up riding 30lb bikes that are actually structurally weaker and less durable than some 25lb bikes.

For absolutely no reason.


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## fxrextreme (Mar 11, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> This mindset is the reason that people end up riding 30lb bikes that are actually structurally weaker and less durable than some 25lb bikes.
> 
> For absolutely no reason.


Can you explain exactly what you mean please?
Ta


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

fxrextreme said:


> Can you explain exactly what you mean please?
> Ta


I'm not sure EXACTLY what he means but there are several topics at play here... for example a DT Champion spoke is heavier and less durable than a DT Comp spoke. Also, tubed setups are heavier and less durable than tubeless setups. He also might mean that every time you say "it's only XX grams" that it adds up in the end.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

fxrextreme said:


> Have you put any miles on those wheels yet?
> Ta


Yes, about 150 miles so far. Not a lot but I descended 10,000ft on them yesterday through some of the rockiest terrain in the region (Downieville).


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## fxrextreme (Mar 11, 2015)

I was wondering how you'd get a 25lb bike stronger than a 30lb one!
(not counting massive differences in values)


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

fxrextreme said:


> I was wondering how you'd get a 25lb bike stronger than a 30lb one!
> (not counting massive differences in values)


That's just one example... carbon is stronger than alu so wheels/frame/components will be stronger/lighter.

DT Champ spokes are straight gauge heavy spokes while DT Comps are double butted. The DT Champs will be STIFFER, but the Comps will be more DURABLE, as they will flex more before breaking than the Champs.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

fxrextreme said:


> I was wondering how you'd get a 25lb bike stronger than a 30lb one!
> (not counting massive differences in values)


Light, strong, cheap. If you completely avoid the latter, it's totally possible to go light and strong... but those are bikes with MSRP's in the range of nice used cars.

Going to double butted spokes (like the DT Comp) generally means more durable wheels, and comes with a bigger weight reduction than going from brass nipples to alloy - so I go with DT Comps and brass nipples to make my wheelsets minimal maintenance. I'm 235lb and ride like an idiot, and could certain turn my 31lb 5.5" travel 29er into a 27.5lb bike by doubling it's cost, but there's almost always easier weight to lose than going after the spokes.
Running tubeless on a lighter (but comparably capable) tire, a lighter cassette, lighter and more durable hubs, lighter crankset, even moving to lighter cockpit parts tends to be better weight/performance gain items per $.


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## fxrextreme (Mar 11, 2015)

Alias530 said:


> Yes, about 150 miles so far. Not a lot but I descended 10,000ft on them yesterday through some of the rockiest terrain in the region (Downieville).


Hi.its a few weeks on and I was wondering if those wheels were still holding up!


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

fxrextreme said:


> Hi.its a few weeks on and I was wondering if those wheels were still holding up!


I got new wheels built for my cross bike so I've been spending most of my time on that or my road bike, only up to 200 miles on the wheels in question but still going strong.

The spokes are really loud... any bit of trail debris that flies up (dirt, pebbles, twigs, etc) makes a loud sound. I was concerned at first but my 140lb riding buddy said the same thing about DT Rev spokes so it's not just me. I'm very confident in these wheels... a big company like Specialized/Roval wouldn't risk the lawsuit to ill-equip a wheelset.


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## fxrextreme (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks!


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