# Anyone use dirt drops?



## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

Whattup y'all?

I'm planning my first MTB and probably going the Krampus route. I'm a big fan of big distances and backcountry so I was looking for something that would be comfortable for long stretches but still off road capable.

I was thinking I'd like to try Salsa Woodchippers with Gevenalle(Retroshift) levers. Coming from a pavement riding background I like the variety of hand positions and riding postures. 

I've test ridden a couple bikes with Jones Loop bars and they felt ok but I didn't immediately fall in love so I don't think that style trekking bar is for me.

What kind of feedback do you have based on actual trail experience?

Thanks,
Nick


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

I have used drop bars off road since 1985.
http://mtbtires.com/site2/features/37-bikes/85-why-i-ride-dropbars


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## Cerberus044 (Jul 17, 2012)

I take my gravel bike with drop bars on some trails it really wasn't made for and to be honest the drop bars are the #1 worst thing about the experience. Hand fatigue is much worse on the drops because of the grip difference and you end up putting more weight on the bars and gripping tighter compared to a mtb bar. That's not to say it can't be done but mtb bars are shaped the way they are for a reason. It's often the best tool for the job.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Cerberus044 said:


> I take my gravel bike with drop bars on some trails it really wasn't made for and to be honest the drop bars are the #1 worst thing about the experience. Hand fatigue is much worse on the drops because of the grip difference and you end up putting more weight on the bars and gripping tighter compared to a mtb bar. That's not to say it can't be done but mtb bars are shaped the way they are for a reason. It's often the best tool for the job.


I went to dropbars because I had those issues with straight bars.


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## hendricks97 (Aug 7, 2013)

flat bar on my mountain bike, woodchippers on my touring bike


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm running Woodchippers on my salsa and put some reasonable XC miles on them (95 this weekend, and over 100 a week on average to/from work). I like the Woodchippers but would prefer less flair (like the Cowbell 2) because the flair forces my wrists to break further than I think is optimal. I may keep the Chippers, but I'll trim an inch off each bar end at some point.


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## sullivan17 (Jan 28, 2014)

I ride with cowbells and I don't think that will change any time soon.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

Like Shiggy, I've used drop bars since the 80's. I've used just about every off-road specific drop and have found the On-One Midge (designed with heavy input from Shiggy) the most to my liking. Shallow drop + just the right amount of flare = perfect for me. Unfortunately these bars aren't currently available.


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## TitanofChaos (Jun 13, 2011)

Woodchippers, my setup is a little biased towards the hoods, if doing a lot of dirt I would move the levers down so I could stay in the drops more


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## TitanofChaos (Jun 13, 2011)

WTB-rider said:


> Like Shiggy, I've used drop bars since the 80's. I've used just about every off-road specific drop and have found the On-One Midge (designed with heavy input from Shiggy) the most to my liking. Shallow drop + just the right amount of flare = perfect for me. Unfortunately these bars aren't currently available.


WHAT? On-One Midge Handlebar | On - One


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

Woodchippers here, with my hoods in a compromise position, really enjoy using them for long climbs and a different position in flat areas. I love the sweep and feel it really adds control and long term comfort. Because of the way my hoods are mounted, i would love to see a bar that has the same overall width as the chipper (i have 46's) but the ends would be shorter so that the width across the tops and between the hoods could be increased.

Wondering what the downside if any would be? seems like it might open the chest a bit more for breathing and be a bit more comfy even.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

TitanofChaos said:


> WHAT? On-One Midge Handlebar | On - One


Holy Guacamole!!! Didn't know they were back!!! Gotta stay a little more current :blush:


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## fotooutdoors (Jul 8, 2010)

You will get a lot of people on this board who are fans of dirt drops, myself included. They tend to put your wrists in a more neutral (natural) angle. The biggest problem imho is that the best place for your hands on rocky terrain is the front of the drops, which you don't want particularly low. For me, that translates to a really high hood position.

If I were primarily doing double track instead of single track, I would seriously consider the cowbell instead of the woodchippers I currently use.

Fwiw, I also use the midge for my winter commuter, since it tends to geta bit more like mountain biking than road cycling with snow and ice.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

They seem to work for some, I hate them, but I would advise you to try them before you cut your fork. Most bikes are not designed with a high enough front end, or most people are not flexable enough, to get the drops in the best position without lots of spacers or a tall stem.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

To those of you that use them:

How do you feel they handle on a loaded bike versus a more traditional bar? 

I'm happy with my Cowbells on a front loaded touring bike, but wonder how they feel with the diff riding posture and terrain.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I think that dirt drops would work well for the use you are planning. There are two main drawbacks that I see. One is that your components are limited running a drop bar compared to regular mtb bars. But since you already have some brake levers in mind you are at least somewhat aware of that. The other is that running dirt drops correctly does not lead to the wide variety of hand positions that you are used to on your road bikes. You need to set up the dirt drops so that they are high enough and close enough to the saddle that you are in a comfortable position for descending when you are in the drops. On a road bike you have the main working position on the hoods and you can go down to the drops for better aerodynamics. On a mountain bike you need to have the main position even higher and farther back than the hoods on a road bike. So if your drops are high enough and close enough to the saddle this means that the position on the hoods is not that useful because it is so high.

I have some Ragley Luxy bars on a cyclocross bike. They work great for that. The setup is a little too far forward and low for perfect descending, but it is a good compromise. For just regular riding around I can sit in drops all day. I use the tops for climbing and that works really well. You could set your bike up for serious mountain bike use and if you were going to be doing a long dirt road tour like the Idaho Hot Springs Mountain Bike Route you could move some spacers above the stem to lower the bars.

If you are going to try the dirt drops it makes sense to do it first. If you later decide to go to flat bars then you could cut the steerer tube. If you do flat bars first you would have to leave the steerer tube uncomfortably long.


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## Trower (Apr 27, 2009)

I have ridden with Jones bars, or Dirt drops for the last 5 years, my wrists just can't take flat bars! I didn't get to really test out the Jones bars, may give them another go this winter on the fatty, but Salsa makes some really great drops. The ones I use right now are Salsa Bell Lap 2 bars. They changed the design of the bars but the older ones you can find on ebay usually. They flare just right and offer a great control and comfort across all the hand positions. They are what I use for longer distances for sure!! Salsa Woodchippers are great as well, but I didn't find them as comfortable as the Bell Lap bars. 

As far as components, tektro makes some good brake levers for drops that work with long pull brakes, and bar end shifters work well, as do some other friction shifters I've tried before. Just ordered some of the new Microshift barend shifters to use with paul thumbies. 

Give drops a shot sounds like you would like them!

-Nick


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## pierre meux (Dec 1, 2008)

I'm a big fan, particularly for touring. I've evolved from the Gary II to the wide Woodchipper, but, wanting more width and different angles (which I find is very much a matter of personal preference), had these fabricated to my specs. Enough time touring and I knew exactly where I wanted my hands. They're perfect (for me). My advice is to ask yourself, when on a long ride or tour, where you WOULD want your hands if you could have them there, and then try to find a bar and stem configuration to match. There are many options out there now.


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## bobchmara (Jan 25, 2007)

I have three bikes with different dirt drops. A Salsa Fargo with Ragley Luxy bars, a Trek 930 Xtracycle with Woodchippers, and a '91 GT Tachyon with Specialized RM-2 bars. I find the Luxy bars to be most to my liking for two reasons:
1) I prefer the wide flare of the Luxy drops
2) More significantly, I like the fact that the ramps are roughly parallel to the drops.
I've not tried or even seen any other dirt drops that use a similar ramps-to-drops geometry.

I was disappointed when Ragley discontinued the Luxy bars, as I'd like to replace the Woodchippers and Specialized RM-2's with Luxys. The difference is so significant for me that I've even considered having some bars fabricated since finding used Luxy bars is near impossible.

The pics are my Fargo setup for winter commuting. I spent a lot of time playing with the setup of the bars, changing the height and trying different length stems before I settled on this setup. Even to me, the height of the bars looks a little goofy, but with this setup, I can ride the hoods or the drops with equal comfort.

pierre meux, do you have any more pics of those bars you could share? I also sent you a PM regarding the fabricator you used.


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## pierre meux (Dec 1, 2008)

@bobchmara

Pictures and information about those bars is here: Moustache Cycles: The Widest Drop Bars Ever Made

I should clarify that I simply told the fabricator where I wanted my hands--width, angles. He designed the bars (beautifully) to meet that objective.


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## AnimalBikeman (Jun 18, 2011)

I ride a Fargo with woodchippers and bar end shifters and prefer them over straight bars. My only concern with drops is that you will be limited to bar end shifters or brifters , neither of which are very suitable for mountain biking. Bar end shifters are very slow and poorly positioned to make rapid MTB shifting happen, generally. Brifters are exposed and seem very delicate for a MTB. M Shiggy seems to do very well in this realm with drops and bar end shifters, but few others can match his skill, or experience. It would be great If someone can come up with a way to make a thumb shifter assembly fit a drop bar. would be the best of both worlds. Doesn't seen all that difficult, yet no innovation in that area apparently.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

AnimalBikeman said:


> I ride a Fargo with woodchippers and bar end shifters and prefer them over straight bars. My only concern with drops is that you will be limited to bar end shifters or brifters , neither of which are very suitable for mountain biking. Bar end shifters are very slow and poorly positioned to make rapid MTB shifting happen, generally. Brifters are exposed and seem very delicate for a MTB. M Shiggy seems to do very well in this realm with drops and bar end shifters, but few others can match his skill, or experience. It would be great If someone can come up with a way to make a thumb shifter assembly fit a drop bar. would be the best of both worlds. Doesn't seen all that difficult, yet no innovation in that area apparently.


There is member on here that essentially ground out a XTR shifter to fit on his drops. Shouldn't be too hard to find and emulate.


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

big_papa_nuts said:


> There is member on here that essentially ground out a XTR shifter to fit on his drops. Shouldn't be too hard to find and emulate.


ya mean like this Instagram from Paul Comp?


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

Nope, his was clamped just below his brake lever so he could shift without moving his hands.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

Found a picture on Google but like I said the guys a member here. I asked him about it, possibly in the Fargo thread, and he simply told me that he ground em out.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

AnimalBikeman said:


> I ride a Fargo with woodchippers and bar end shifters and prefer them over straight bars. My only concern with drops is that you will be limited to bar end shifters or brifters , neither of which are very suitable for mountain biking. Bar end shifters are very slow and poorly positioned to make rapid MTB shifting happen, generally. Brifters are exposed and seem very delicate for a MTB. M Shiggy seems to do very well in this realm with drops and bar end shifters, but few others can match his skill, or experience. It would be great If someone can come up with a way to make a thumb shifter assembly fit a drop bar. would be the best of both worlds. Doesn't seen all that difficult, yet no innovation in that area apparently.


I use STI levers (please do not call them brifters) without issues. Never broken one in a crash.

Have worn out a few, and they were well used went I got them. Still took 6-8 years.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

AnimalBikeman said:


> It would be great If someone can come up with a way to make a thumb shifter assembly fit a drop bar. would be the best of both worlds. Doesn't seen all that difficult, yet no innovation in that area apparently.


Gevenalle - Cyclocross (used to be called retroshift)

Integrated shifter for drop bars with friction shifting. I have them on my road bike, and really like them. Tempted to give them a try on dirt drops next, especially if they come out with the Dynasys compatible version they've been working on.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

renegade44 said:


> Gevenalle - Cyclocross (used to be called retroshift)
> 
> Integrated shifter for drop bars with friction shifting. I have them on my road bike, and really like them. Tempted to give them a try on dirt drops next, especially if they come out with the Dynasys compatible version they've been working on.


I would rather have barend shifters, which can be easily accessed from the drops. Have to be on the hoods to use the retroshift.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

big_papa_nuts said:


> View attachment 932906
> 
> 
> Found a picture on Google but like I said the guys a member here. I asked him about it, possibly in the Fargo thread, and he simply told me that he ground em out.


Turns out that wasn't even the one I was thinking of but actually another person that did the same thing. Here is the one I was thinking of; http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/salsa-fargo-thread-467422-144.html#post10659043 .


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## IoC (May 14, 2009)

shiggy said:


> I would rather have barend shifters, which can be easily accessed from the drops. Have to be on the hoods to use the retroshift.


+1. I ride my Fargo through some pretty technical stuff. With my levers favoring braking from the drops, the bar-end shifters make it easy to shift without really losing grip on the bars. I've done some pretty stupidly technical endurance racing on them in Pisgah National Forest, but more for 'Yeah, I did that on a Fargo' than for speed.

If my hands/wrists get fatigued on the woodchippers, I've found it's because I'm tired and I'm showing poor posture/form. When I use my core correctly, they're a lot easier on me than straight bars.


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## CaliScott (Aug 21, 2014)

I just took my drop bar conversion for it's first ride the other day. I went with the Nashbar GC compact drop. It is a nice, lightweight bar for a bit over $20 with coupon. I was going for a cheaper route, as this was an experiment, so to speak. I was looking to get the Midge or a Woodchipper, but was unsure of the hand positions and friends had told me they had trouble getting proper brake hood angle, etc...I like the drop, it feels pretty good at least on the few dirt roads I've had it on so far.


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