# Alfine 8 proof of durability



## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I've been researching for close to a month about switching to an Alfine 8 this off season. I've read just about every thread on MTBR that has to do with the Alfine and I keep hearing that it is durable and lasts for a long time in "mountain bike use" but how hard of trails are you guys really riding? By "mountain bike use" do you mean fast XC fire roads, long Rocky Mountain climbs, pebble gravel walking trails...what exactly are you classifying as "mountain bike use"? If I switch over it's going to be run with 32t/19t and run on a HT 29er on Black Diamond technical, rocky, rooty and wet(creek crossings) trails 3-4 times a week. Can it handle that sort of abuse? Do any of you have any videos or pictures of an Alfine taking a serious beating? I'll be replacing an XTR/X0/X9 drivetrain, which is about as good as it gets for gears, so you can see why I'm balking at the idea:madman: For the price of entry I might just try it for the heck of it and then upgrade to 1x10 if it doesn't pan out but KNOWING it won't last in rough&tumble conditions might make me pass altogether...


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> I've been researching for close to a month about switching to an Alfine 8 this off season. I've read just about every thread on MTBR that has to do with the Alfine and I keep hearing that it is durable and lasts for a long time in "mountain bike use" but how hard of trails are you guys really riding? By "mountain bike use" do you mean fast XC fire roads, long Rocky Mountain climbs, pebble gravel walking trails...what exactly are you classifying as "mountain bike use"? If I switch over it's going to be run with 32t/19t and run on a HT 29er on Black Diamond technical, rocky, rooty and wet(creek crossings) trails 3-4 times a week. Can it handle that sort of abuse? Do any of you have any videos or pictures of an Alfine taking a serious beating? I'll be replacing an XTR/X0/X9 drivetrain, which is about as good as it gets for gears, so you can see why I'm balking at the idea:madman: For the price of entry I might just try it for the heck of it and then upgrade to 1x10 if it doesn't pan out but KNOWING it won't last in rough&tumble conditions might make me pass altogether...


I've beaten the crap out of my alfine with no problems. Mud, technical riding (rocks, roots), huge climbs, 18 hours straight of riding, commuting, etc. Has held up fine. In my experience, durability hasn't been an issue. The only thing I'm not super convinced on is continual creek crossings, as I rarely do that. Also, I haven't done any hucking on my Alfine.

The negatives I have with the hub: heavy and limited gear range. So, for this year's race season, I actually went back to a 2x9 drivetrain. Lighter and more gear range for the large amount of climbing I had in two of my big races.

I'll still use the Alfine 8, but it isn't the end all be all for me. I'm hoping the Alfine 11 will be.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Mud pic here


Semi-technical ride video here





Flying Dog with Marley and Tess from Brad Baker on Vimeo.


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## oasismfg (Oct 27, 2008)

I am a 220# masher, I ride Trabuco canyon here in So Cal, which is rocky and technical. I bought my Alfine specifically because I also ride Arroyo Trabuco which has several stream crossings with sandy banks. I got tired if the "coffee grinder" sound from my derailleur when I got it wet and sandy. Been running it all year, no problem. I took the hub apart a few weeks ago to give it the "Alfine oil bath", and saw no evidence of water inside whatsoever. But the creek is at most, just shy of hub deep. So it gets plenty of water splashed on it, but not submerged.

I had one issue where it would occasionally pop in 3rd gear. I thought the oil bath would help, but it got worse. I double and triple checked the shift alignment marks, they were always perfect. At the end of my rope, I intentionally misaligned the marks in one direction, and it got even worse. I misaligned them in the opposite direction and I haven't heard any popping since. And by misaligned, I mean only by one turn of the adjustment nut at the shifter. The alignment marks are so wide, they still line up with each other, just not perfectly. So be it, I'm happy.

Anyway, I too wish for more range, and perhaps the Alfine 11 will give me what I want. But even if Shimano did not come out with the 11, I would never, ever go back to using a derailleur.


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

Mine does everything my other bike does. I even raced an O cup with it. However, I don't ride in the wet hardly at all and I don't do drops of more than a foot and a half or so. I've basically pounded on it otherwise, even riding road on some semi-fast club rides (with different gearing and tires). The weight and limited range are the only handicaps.

Drew


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

I've run my A8 on lots of hard pounding trails both on a HT and a FS bike. At one time, I weighed over 250 pounds. I had no problems at all. I can't wait for the A11.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I currently run 1x6 so the A8 would be a welcome increase in gear ratios. I like what I've seen/heard so I think I'll try it out

Do you guys that use them in the rough use the wet weather cable kit or just the standard. My creek crossings won't submerge the hub but with all the mud I encounter it sounds like an extra safety precaution. Opinions?


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

Other thing to consider, moving from a high-end drivetrain, is that the Alfine is slow to engage... In fact, I would say it feels sloppy. I like it on my Pugsley but it would drive me nuts on a mountain bike. YMMV.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

anthony.delorenzo said:


> Other thing to consider, moving from a high-end drivetrain, is that the Alfine is slow to engage... In fact, I would say it feels sloppy. I like it on my Pugsley but it would drive me nuts on a mountain bike. YMMV.


I would say there seems to be a "low end" feel in the Alfine shifter but then you're instantly in the gear. With a regular drivetrain, the shifter feels more "high-end" when you shift but it takes a moment for the chain to move and for drivetrain to be fulling engaged.

Just this past weekend, I test rode a new bike with Sram X0. The shifter felt great, but after years of IGH, the clicking, clanking, skipping and time it took for shifts seemed awkward to me.


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## oasismfg (Oct 27, 2008)

DFYFZX said:


> I currently run 1x6 so the A8 would be a welcome increase in gear ratios. I like what I've seen/heard so I think I'll try it out
> 
> Do you guys that use them in the rough use the wet weather cable kit or just the standard. My creek crossings won't submerge the hub but with all the mud I encounter it sounds like an extra safety precaution. Opinions?


I use the standard cable. No problems - so far.


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## oasismfg (Oct 27, 2008)

anthony.delorenzo said:


> Other thing to consider, moving from a high-end drivetrain, is that the Alfine is slow to engage... In fact, I would say it feels sloppy. I like it on my Pugsley but it would drive me nuts on a mountain bike. YMMV.


Hmmm,,,maybe my previous drive train wasn't high end enough. To me, the A8 shifts are crisp and instant, and I'm usually shifting under moderate power. Sometimes it lags a bit if I'm really hammering on it, and then I might have to unload momentarily, but that is rare.


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

No real long-term durability info to add here, but I recently borrowed an A8 wheel from a friend of mine for a trip to Arkansas. I have been running 29er 1x9 (XO) and SS (32x19), and wanted to give the A8 a shot on this trip just for fun. On the 25 miles of the Womble Trail that I rode it on, it performed flawlessly. Insanely easy setup (used a Gen1 Singulator with my vert dropout frame). It had a 22 tooth cog on it, and I didn't get it in time to buy a 19t so I could magic gear it, but I didn't get any of the typical drivetrain crunchies that I sometimes get in AR with the rock content in the soil and the occassional creek crossing.

The hardest things to adjust to are the low-normal shifting and the fact that you need to stop pedaling when you shift (or at least soft pedal). If you can actually stop pedaling for a moment or do a quick back-pedal, the gear engages and you move on. If you continue to pedal (like you would with a derailleur system), the hub takes a moment to engage and will feel 1989ish slow. Once you get yourself adjusted to these two factors, you're pretty much good to go.

I thought it transitioned into climbs from descents and vice versa very well. I believe it's a bit heavier than the "normal" system (especially if it's high end), but I really did not notice it on the bike. It had plenty of range for me to climb and descend.

The only other thing I didn't like was that it was laced to a Velocity Blunt rim. If I end up with one, I'll lace it to a Flow like my other wheels and run it tubeless. I hit a rock on a descent and actually dented the rim b/c I hit it right at the weld seam on the rim. Quick field fix and I was back in business, but those Velocities seem a little soft.


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## oasismfg (Oct 27, 2008)

Francis Buxton said:


> The hardest things to adjust to are the low-normal shifting and the fact that you need to stop pedaling when you shift (or at least soft pedal). If you can actually stop pedaling for a moment or do a quick back-pedal, the gear engages and you move on. If you continue to pedal (like you would with a derailleur system), the hub takes a moment to engage and will feel 1989ish slow. Once you get yourself adjusted to these two factors, you're pretty much good to go.


Not my experience at all. I shift under load all the time and it always feels quick and precise. Before I bought mine, I heard the reports of having to unload to shift, so I was looking for it to happen. Normally it doesn't for me, unless I'm climbing hard. Maybe I got lucky, but I got one for my daughter's bike and it seems to feel the same to me. Or maybe I'm just unconsciously unloading and I don't realize it, but I don't think so. I have everything carefully adjusted, so maybe that helps?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I "unload" anyway when I'm shifting. Mashing up a hill and down shifting under force is doable on a conventional drivetrain but it's not good for it. I think I've already got the shifting technic down pat and I've never even ridden one


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## oasismfg (Oct 27, 2008)

Sure, I hear you. Just relating my experience that it shifts under load for me, and I might add from a durability standpoint, when I removed the gear assembly to give it an oil bath there was no evidence stress. No chipped teeth, heck there wasn't even any metallic dust or flakes or residue or whatever you want to call it that normally accumulates in a gearbox during normal operation. The thing looked pristine, and that's after about 850 miles on it. Not a huge amount, but enough to show potential problems if there were any.


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

Look at some of my old threads and you will see an Alfine in Freeride use. I live in the PNW an it has 2.5 seasons at Whistler on it. I am comfortable on all the black diamond runs and probably have a few hundred runs under my belt at Whistler (blue, blck, double black). I have recently had some issues with bent spokes, and the mavic 823 has a bit of wobble to it, but the Alfine is pristine. I also rode it in the snow in Boulder quite a bit, and various wierd things when it was my 'one bike' (100mi Century roadie race etc). My freeride rig (Knolly DT) sits at a burly 43-46lbs and I weigh 200-210 in gear.
I am sure it is not as burly as a nice CK, Hadley, or I9 hub, but quality hubs rarely give out, imo.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

oasismfg said:


> Hmmm,,,maybe my previous drive train wasn't high end enough. To me, the A8 shifts are crisp and instant, and I'm usually shifting under moderate power. Sometimes it lags a bit if I'm really hammering on it, and then I might have to unload momentarily, but that is rare.


Definitely, the shifts are crisp. No complaints there. I meant to say that the engagement when pedaling is slow. OP is coming from an XTR drivetrain that has something like 10 degree engagement. I don't know what it is for the Alfine but it is definitely much slower for the clutch to engage. This would be a factor to consider.

I ride a White Industries freewheel on my MTB, and when I'm on the Alfine Pugsley I really notice the slower engagement. It might not bother some people, but it does bug me.

When it does engage, I find that there is still a sloppy feeling back there. Definitely not as solid-feeling as other drivetrains I have ridden.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

My Alfine 8 went about a year and then I broke the 2nd gear pawl. After fishing out the broken parts I am missing 2nd and 6th gear (those gears act like 1st and 5th) but it works fine otherwise. I am 200 lbs "tare weight" and often stand and mash.

Also during a particularly heavy rain I got some water inside by doing multiple submerged hub creek crossings.


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

I rode it last winter, almost exclusifly.
No problems in mud, snow and rain.
Clutch engagement was a bit slow in some gears.
I had the 501, with silent (pawless) clutches.
Worked fine, shifting took some time to get used to.
But I never could get used to the internal drag I noticed in lower gears.
Sold the wheel, was like new after one winter of negleckt.


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## vtdavey (Feb 16, 2008)

*Tour Divide tested*

I rode an Alfine 8 in the 2010 Tour Divide race this summer. 2745 miles off road - Canada to Mexico. Swapped out chains in Colorado but never even touched the cable adjustment. I had put an additional 5,000 miles in training on this hub here in Vermont, USA. I will continue to ride it until there is a problem or Shimano comes out with a lighter 8spd hub!


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## tlupfer (Dec 12, 2007)

vtdavey said:


> I rode an Alfine 8 in the 2010 Tour Divide race this summer. 2745 miles off road - Canada to Mexico. Swapped out chains in Colorado but never even touched the cable adjustment. I had put an additional 5,000 miles in training on this hub here in Vermont, USA. I will continue to ride it until there is a problem or Shimano comes out with a lighter 8spd hub!


that's great news. I've been stressing about using a similar setup on next year's tour divide. what gear ratio did you use?


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## Val Garou (Mar 12, 2008)

vtdavey said:


> I rode an Alfine 8 in the 2010 Tour Divide race this summer. 2745 miles off road - Canada to Mexico. Swapped out chains in Colorado but never even touched the cable adjustment. I had put an additional 5,000 miles in training on this hub here in Vermont, USA. I will continue to ride it until there is a problem or Shimano comes out with a lighter 8spd hub!


Wow, very impressive. Congrats on knocking that one off!

If you don't mind, a few questions: Gearing? What do you weigh?


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## vtdavey (Feb 16, 2008)

*off-road gearing*

I trained on and raced with a 36x20. This gave me a power band between 3 to 27 mph. Any slower I walked and any faster - I watched Cricket Butler and Stephen Huddle disappear off into the horizon. Not many places where TD requires peddling over 27mph for extended distance - but there are a few places - wind permitting.

Now back in Vermont - I have dropped it to a 34x20 for our local steep and technical climbs.

During the race I had problems with my EBB - broke a bolt in CarverBB replaced it at Orange Peel -($$$$$$$$ - but what could I do?) I continue to have EBB problems - I'd go with sliding dropouts.

I will also note here that I never submerged the rear hub for any length of time. On the new Sparwood to Roosville section, I went through some over hub water crossings - but fast enough to not submerge. There were also some flooded roads here - but I rode slow enough so that the water stayed at about disc rotor depth. There is also a deep water crossing in Colorado where I carried the bike. Me, the bike, my gear, water and food all weighed over #220.

The other i.g. bike that finished was Huddle's Rohloff. He got an oil change in Steamboat... said there was about a table spoon of oil in the hub to drain after that distance.

I was happy with the 36x20 (on a 29er). I would recommend starting around this ratio and then dialing in your comfort zone in the next few months of training. Do lots of reeeaaallly loooonnng climbs - fully loaded to see where you're at.

Have fun!


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## vtdavey (Feb 16, 2008)

*weight capacity of alfine 8spd hub*

I weighed about 152 last year. Hard to say what I raced Tour Divide at... I did pick up my bike fully loaded before I left and it weighed over #220. I jettisoned a lot of stuff before and during the race though. In Slater, Co I weighed #146 at Brush Mtn Lodge. In the photo of me in Del Norte I look like I weigh about 142. I remember being damn hungry and judging by the way my jersey is flapping on my cannibilized arms i could be even less. I finally stopped stuffing my pie-hole and have topped out at #160.

I would say the Alfine could take even more weight. I tried not to shift under load - more out of habit than any limitation from the hub @ 36x20.


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## Project2501 (Apr 7, 2006)

Dave! 
I just came across this post and was going to sing the alfine's praises on your behalf.

Stephen


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## wilbuick (Apr 10, 2008)

Proof of durability? I'm another one who is running an alfine 8 in the back of an all mountain bike. Never had any problems, I'll destroy the rim before I destroy the hub. Just to make things interesting, I also spent a month cycle touring around the netherlands, germany and belgium with my all mountain bike towing a bob trailer with a lot of gear (at least 25kgs probably closer to 30). Still no problems. Not many hills to ride up, so not a true test of the hub for cycle touring but it worked just fine for me. I was told it got as low as -15 or so in the snow too, still worked.

Hopefully the first pic shows my drivetrain setup, there's more pics on this forum somewhere that show the drivetrain better.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

Quick update for this thread: My Alfine 8 hub has been on my Pugsley for 2.5 years now. I'm putting it through some pretty hard use, including: 

- Low gearing (32X22)
- Heavy, strong rider 
- 190 mm cranks (lots of leverage)
- Mainly winter use, temperatures ranging from +5 to -40 C. 
- Lots of trail riding but also commuting with sand, salt and grit
- Little maintenance. Lube my chain every few months, overhaul the hub once a year. 

It still feels sloppy, makes some awful noises and generally gives the impression that it's done for. But, that was pretty much how it was out of the box, and it never fails to shift (crisply, I might add) or engage. When I tore it down in the fall it was mint inside. 

Pretty impressed overall.


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

I have had my 8-speed Shimano Alfine hub running strong without any issues for more than 2,900 miles. Abusive miles. DH on rocky stuff, bashing curbs, plowing across rivers/streams/muddy puddles/etc., prolonged (4,000'+ climbs), etc. Still going strong. Using one makes a rider stronger, in my opinion, since you are lugging that 3.9 pounds of rotating mass along with the what-14% or so-mechanical friction loss, up hills and such. Currently running 32x16, was running 36x16 before that (I suddenly realised one day that 32 was better for REAL riding on trails). The bike I have it on weighs a whopping 47.8 pounds (includes 65mm wide Surly Large Marge DH rims, 3" wide tires, several pounds of tools, spare tube, three 14.8V 4400mAh Li-Ion battery packs @ roughly 1.3 pounds each), and I generally am OOTP when going up steep hills.

I am on my second chain, and my THIRD bottom bracket (now using RaceFace DH bearings down below, hopefully they will not fail anytime soon).



anthony.delorenzo said:


> - Little maintenance. Lube my chain every few months.
> 
> It still feels sloppy, makes some awful noises and generally gives the impression that it's done for. But, that was pretty much how it was out of the box, and it never fails to shift (crisply, I might add) or engage. When I tore it down in the fall it was mint inside.


Same here, I haven't had it properly serviced yet otherwise.

I haven't got Rohloff dollars, so the Shimano Alfine has to fit the bill for me.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

*LOW Gearing*

I don't have the kind of miles on the hub that some of the other riders here do, but I think I am running the lowest gear ratio. I started out with 30:24, and am currently running 28:24 (On a 29er). For my riding, I wanted my lowest gear to be similar to that of a 3x9 drivetrain. For my trails, I have no use for anything higher, and even with this low gearing, I rarely, if ever, use 7 and 8. I am the NE and my trails are very technical, windy, rocky, rooty with steep ups and downs.

So far so good. I am careful to not shift under load, and every once in a while I get a funky downshift, but letting up the power and a quick up and down shift sets it straight again. So far I am very happy with my decision to use the Alfine 8. I have been on a SS for a while, and couldn't swallow the idea of using a derailleur again! Here is the bike it's on right now:


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## ZackR (Mar 10, 2011)

I have some good first hand info on the durability on the alfine 8. This is the 3rd winter on an 8 speed disc hub with 7 inch rotor that I put on our coffee delivery trike. It is an old mexican made street vendors trike that was brought back from mexico. 


It is geared 22 up front 18 in the rear, someone can do the math on that. It has held up amazingly well. I don't know of the mileage on it, but it is low, probably 2,000miles max. It is used for short deliveries around Madison, but it carries a lot of weight. The trike/rider/coffee load max is around 450 pounds and it regularly goes with that load up some fairly steep hills, which means high torque on the hub(right?). It is used year round and has never iced up or been clogged with snow and we get a fair amount around here. It is NEVER slipped, skipped, grinded(ground?), or anything of that sort while in any gear or carrying any load.

Zack


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Anyone care to update this thread with a few years more of experience?


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

I had mine out on Saturday. Worked flawless at the same trail, Puslinch, where it made a very loud crunch a couple years ago climbing and downshifting. That prompted me to split the internals and grease/gear oil the insides. It's running great still, and I found nothing amiss when I yanked it apart. I run 30/20 on a 29er


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

Awesome! I've got my Krampugs set up with 30/20, and I'm finding that ratio plenty low enough for my trail riding. My Pugsley is set up lower for beach and dune riding (as well as trails), at 26/19.



dru said:


> I had mine out on Saturday. Worked flawless at the same trail, Puslinch, where it made a very loud crunch a couple years ago climbing and downshifting. That prompted me to split the internals and grease/gear oil the insides. It's running great still, and I found nothing amiss when I yanked it apart. I run 30/20 on a 29er
> View attachment 1139933


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

PlutonicPlague said:


> Awesome! I've got my Krampugs set up with 30/20, and I'm finding that ratio plenty low enough for my trail riding. My Pugsley is set up lower for beach and dune riding (as well as trails), at 26/19.


Thanks to both of you.

Have a pic or a thread dedicated to your Pugs build?


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

My old Alfine 8 SG501 gave me almost 12000km of riding before I replaced this spring, after it started skipping and leaving small metal filings in the oil.

Worked well for me, considering it was ridden all year round in cold winters with lots of slush, snow, ice and water.

Hopefully the new one lasts that long.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

Holy thread resurrection, Mikesee-Man! Since 2010, they came out with 1x11 and I've been doing that for the last few years. It works well and overcomes a lot of my objections to 3x and 2x drivetrains, but it still seems strange hanging the "guts" of a bike out in the rocks, roots, dirt and grime of the world. Internal gears make so much sense.

I just recently got back on my old Rohloff bike and that's been a great reunion. I've even been dreaming of having you build up a new boosted Rohloff wheel for a plus bike I haven't picked out yet. 

My Alfine 8 is still working well on a hardtail I use for urban riding. No maintenance and no issues since it was new, but I haven't put many miles on it either.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Anyone care to update this thread with a few years more of experience?


I will when/if I break my Alfine I bought about 9 years ago.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Cool.

I'm crossing fingers and holding breath on the Kindernay, but am willing to try an A8 again, 6 years later.

Pretty over the expense of derailleur-based systems. I don't have any problems with them in use, just ready to be done buying them.


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

I don't use an Alfine as MTB hub but I have 4 IGH hub bikes , they make so much sense.

Still rolling my 15 year old Rohloff.
When I think of all the derailleurs , cassettes , chainrings and chains I would have bought in 15 years : it has paid itself....


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Probably close to 3000 miles on mine now.

100% mountain bike use.
--roughly 50% singletrack, 25% pavement, 25% dirt roads
--all weather, rain, sun, snow, slush
225 pound rider
39x24 primary gearing
Belt drive
Rigid 26er

Trails like this:






View attachment 1149120


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

My wife and I had alfines on our fatbikes. She had the 11 and I had the 8.
Rode those for 5 yrs all around New England. Never had lick of problems.
Sold the bikes to "upgrade" our rides.

Crappy decision, really miss the shifting of the Alfines.... So much that I will probably put one on the Moonlander frame I just picked up!


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