# Best brakes for Big Hoss



## Andrew Nelson (Aug 1, 2013)

Hey big dogs, 

Im 6'4' 280 and Ive been riding the crap cannondale brakes that came with my trail series. I am looking to upgrade to something relatively decent priced. From my research it seems the Shimano XT, Zee, or the Magura MT5 are great brakes that are in my price range. Any advice? 

Thanks
Ride on!


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

250 here, XT's and I love them. Just go bigger rotors. 203/180 on my FS and 180/160 on my SS and have never had a problem.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Zee is the best thing going for an affordable brake that can handle a >250lb rider the way a brake should. Pretty easy decision, i think.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Can't go wrong with Shimano's I've never had anything more than mid-level models and they are always great, reliable, pads last a long time, easy to maintain, etc. You can get a set for well under $200. Get the bleed kit so you have it if / when needed. 

I've had Hope which were good too but that was years ago. Avids not so much...seemed more finicky and more of a hassle to change pads. Newest bike has SRAM which have been good thru first few rides but I don't have long term experience with them.


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## Andrew Nelson (Aug 1, 2013)

Thanks for the advice everyone. Is there really a difference in the upgrade from XT to Zee? Looks like the XTs have pretty great reviews but the Zees are more sturdy downhill built. Any input on that? Also, are the magura’s just crap? I thought they looked sweet but if they suck then I’ll rule them out lol


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I'd get Zee's over XT at your weight no question. You would need something like the mt7's $$ to match the power of the zee's.


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## JamesPM (Apr 8, 2009)

The best MTB disc brake you can buy | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine

http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/1-finger-brakes-heavier-guys-1056686.html


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Xt vs zee is very dependant on where/how you ride. Im 6'1 270 and run m7000 SLX (same exact thing as XT without the knob for reach adjustment) and never wished for more brakes yet. But I live in the midwest and no where I normally ride that has found their limits yet. 180/160mm rotors and a handful of brake can put me on my face no problem. Lock up the rear no problem unless seated on pavement (then takes a solid yank to get the back to lock but im on 3.0 tires)

If you ride somewhere that is more mountainous where your seeing really high speeds, long runs of pulling on the brakes then Zee's. If your like where I am in the midwest, Zee's are overkill. Nice but overkill. And there is a version of XT now that is basically Zee's (4 pot calipers).

I have little m445s 180/160 on my fat bike and thats enough there. But I dont want really responsive brakes on that since its main use is winter riding. Weaker (taking way more force to bite hard) brakes are a good thing especially riding with winter gloves on.

Up to you, Zee style brakes are needed sooner for us big guys versus regular sized, but doesnt mean their needed for trail riding. All depends on the trails.

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## Andrew Nelson (Aug 1, 2013)

Excellent input man. I’ll probably just go to the Zees! Seems like they’re worth the investment. And I do ride pretty hard. I try to get my bike up to Copper Harbor once a year so I think it’ll be worth it. I’m just poor so I wanted to know how “worth it” it was.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Andrew Nelson said:


> I'm just poor so I wanted to know how "worth it" it was.


My zees are like 7 years old now with over 2 million feet of descending on them. I've had a couple of other brake sets since i got them and they've always been my favorites.



RAKC Ind said:


> Xt vs zee is very dependent on where/how you ride.


I dunno man, even when it's dead flat i still prefer the zee to XT. They're just a better match for your size. If i lived in the midwest i'd just opt for organic pads. The 2 pot options are entirely a budget decision at your weight. IMO.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Ive ridden Zee's and are great dont get me wrong. But havent seen a gain that justified the extra $100 for my brakes at my skill level/trails. For rear brakes there is no way I would ever go 4 pot. Slx/xt on 160mm rotors the back tire locks up already almost too easy.

I have been back and forth about grabbing a zee or new xt 4 pot caliper for the front as I started moving into trails I never thought I would but at the same time I only will see them a couple times a year.

Anyway, not that they arent beneficial at my size, but I would be hard pressed to call them anywhere near needed unless you ride where avg sized riders are pushing the limits of 2 pot brakes.

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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

RAKC Ind said:


> Ive ridden Zee's and are great dont get me wrong. But havent seen a gain that justified the extra $100 for my brakes at my skill level/trails. For rear brakes there is no way I would ever go 4 pot. Slx/xt on 160mm rotors the back tire locks up already almost too easy.
> 
> I have been back and forth about grabbing a zee or new xt 4 pot caliper for the front as I started moving into trails I never thought I would but at the same time I only will see them a couple times a year.
> 
> ...


Totally, and our difference in perspective is likely from different expectations.

FWIW, i've mixed up a set of XT brakes with a set of Zees. Made 2 brake sets that use a Zee caliper in the front with an XT in the rear. They work well and aren't an obvious mismatch; it feels normal. On my hardtail it's a pretty rad combination because the 2 pot rear plays nice with a 180 rotor and doesn't lock too easily- the grip/power matches the zee/8" front. (the other set is on my enduro bike with 8/8" rotors, and i don't really notice any significant difference)

IMO Zees are a better value even though they're 100$ more.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

245 lbs butt naked...

Shimano M615's paired w/ 203/180 mil rotors, on my AM HT 29er.

They offer plenty of stopping power ^^

Don't forget, tyres play a role in braking also.

No good running great brakes & large rotors on semi slick rubber o_0

Unless o/c that's what floats your boat.

FYI - 2.35 Hans Dampf & 2.35 Michelin Wild AM - front & rear on my whip ;-)

'We'll all make it to the top... Some of us, might not make it to the bottom'


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

SLX are a slightly heavier slightly less nice XT brake. So many riders I know just go with SLX because they are nearly the same performance as XT for less coin.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Zee's and run a Maxxis DHR2 dual compound durometer out back. All set.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Zees have 4 pistons. XT and SLX have two. More clamping power and maybe slightly better modulation. 

And definitely use 203/180 rotors. I had 180/160 on my son's bike and didn't think to switch him to bigger rotors as he grew. He's 195 pounds now and I just swapped his brakes to bigger rotors and he said it's like night and day.


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## ElBorracho62 (Nov 6, 2014)

Hope. I’ve got Texh 3’s on both my bikes. The reach adjust and BP adjustment make one finger braking perfect especially if you’ve got big hands... I got tired of my middle fingers getting in the way when hard braking...there simply isn’t a better set of brakes out there...


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

ElBorracho62 said:


> Hope. I've got Texh 3's on both my bikes. The reach adjust and BP adjustment make one finger braking perfect especially if you've got big hands... I got tired of my middle fingers getting in the way when hard braking...there simply isn't a better set of brakes out there...


Winner!

I was 320lbs and was between Avid and Shimano. I know both suck cause I've seen it or experienced it first hand.

Shimano brakes (all of them) have the same issue where they're working fine and then all of a sudden there's no brake. The lever comes in to the bar.

As people in this post mentioned "buy a bleed kit"... Why? This is the most important component on your bicycle. They shouldn't have this issue. Trust me, it's WELL documented too.

Acid/Sram still has the same issue they had a decade ago. They won't use the correct seals and the lever gets "stuck in" after a couple years. I had this happen to 4 levers of mine. 2 demo bikes (at the shop I work at) had this happen last year on the Sram Guides... It's pretty sad that a decade later and they still can't fix it. Fwiw, a lever rebuild kit is $10, but even sram refuses to rebuild their own levers. You also need special tools to rebuild them (the older ones at least) . The reps at the world cup went off the deep end when I asked them to rebuild them. Yep, even their own employees hated them.

I took a guys bike out to test it at the shop and got a taste of Hope. I ended up giving them a shot on my DH bike (Tech 3 V4) and never looked back. There's no special tools or bleed kits needed. 5.1 dot fluid, 8mm box or open end wrench, T10 and hose to catch the oil. Pads are available on Jenson, Amazon, CRC and elsewhere. Rebuild parts are available from CRC, but in 4 years I have only changed the pads. No maintenance or re-bleeding is necessary. They work. Period. Both 203mm discs stop me and modulate perfectly.

I put E4's on my AM bike. No issues for 2 years of hard riding. The levers don't need to be adjusted as often as my Avids did. They don't adjust when I ride them hard all day. The discs don't gouge like the Avids did and they don't warp as bad either. They're made in England and they just work all the time.

Ride what you can afford, but if you're looking for an upgrade, spend the money and get Hopes.

Ttyl, Fahn


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

You would be the only person Ive seen so far that has had that much trouble with shimanos. And a bleed kit consists of the cup and thats it. I personally have run shimanos and nothing else so far. From 300 lbs down to my weight now. Only 1 ever had any issue and that was a piston that was sticking after sitting all winter, and 2 seasons of zero maintenance. Your problems were set up based, not problems with the brakes themselves

Hopes are really nice brakes but I have been trying to avoid DOT fluid based brakes. Dealing with it every day already, that crap is nasty, bike brakes need the fluid changed far more than mineral oil based (joys of hydroscopic fluids like brake fluid).

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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

By the time you get to post #7 you'll understand...

Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion | Ridemonkey Forums


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

LarryFahn said:


> Winner!
> 
> I was 320lbs and was between Avid and Shimano. I know both suck cause I've seen it or experienced it first hand.
> 
> ...


Good report.

I think Shimano makes a great brake for the price. But I ride in the cold a lot, and all my Shimano brakes have lever throw, pad retraction issues in the cold. I think the mineral oil thickens and does not allow the pad to retract quickly enough. So, rapid succession lever pulls result in changing bite point at the lever throw. Real easy to accidentally lock up a wheel.

So, I've been looking at Hopes. I can get them at cost.

For a full on DH bike what would Hope brake would you recommend? ? Tech 3 v4?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> By the time you get to post #7 you'll understand...
> 
> Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion | Ridemonkey Forums


That's a really good read.

Hopes are super nice brakes but it a takes more force at the lever to get into the power compared to zee/saint. As mentioned above that may be a good thing depending on how and where you ride. If you watch the pinkbike video of the pro grt race at Windrock that just happened almost all the bikes featured in the pits are still running saint calipers. Saint calipers are forged and then machined, not sure if any other caliper gets that much detail?

I'm building a new bike and struggled between the hope v4's and saint. Went saint, sure hope I got a good set. The rear cable is internally routed which adds yet another level of pain in the assness.


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## Andrew Nelson (Aug 1, 2013)

So update. Just went to the LBS and tested some out. They didn’t have any bikes mounted with Zees but was honestly pretty impressed with the SRAM Level T over the XT. Was also thinking about upgrading rotors and running 203s front and back. Any experience with any of those? Seems like it makes a huge difference as well.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Andrew Nelson said:


> So update. Just went to the LBS and tested some out. They didn't have any bikes mounted with Zees but was honestly pretty impressed with the SRAM Level T over the XT. Was also thinking about upgrading rotors and running 203s front and back. Any experience with any of those? Seems like it makes a huge difference as well.


How a brake feels cruising around outside a bike shop has absolutely zero bearing on how it functions as a brake in the real world. In light of this, i find bike shop testing counterproductive, less useful than not riding them at all. Same goes for suspension.

(guides are a good alternative to XT and not comparable to zee. level brakes are a non-starter.)


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## JackalopeRider (Jun 16, 2013)

I just upgraded mine, I don't have a lot to compare them to but the difference was night and day difference. I went 180mm rotor SRAM level T to a 203 mm Shimano Saint BR-M820.. AWESOME!

http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/upgrading-my-front-brakes-tell-me-what-i-need-1070037.html


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## cunningstunts (Sep 1, 2011)

well there's Zees, or you could get Zees, or maybe the Zees, then again you might try the Zees, or even possibly Zees, or you could just say to hell with it and get the Zees. in the end there are many good brakes but for my money (and for any bike from xc to dh, in all conditions, but especially in the PNWet in the mtns) for goodness sakes do yourself a favour AND GET THE ZEES.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Miker J said:


> Good report.
> 
> I think Shimano makes a great brake for the price. But I ride in the cold a lot, and all my Shimano brakes have lever throw, pad retraction issues in the cold. I think the mineral oil thickens and does not allow the pad to retract quickly enough. So, rapid succession lever pulls result in changing bite point at the lever throw. Real easy to accidentally lock up a wheel.
> 
> ...


Yeah, get the V4. The lever is the same (that's the "Tech 3" lever) but the V4 caliper is a bit bigger.

Ps. A big advantage of buying Hope is that they make aftermarket brakes in house. They don't have to make 40,000 brakes within X amount of time to meet a quota of Trek, Specialized or Giant, while having issues with a higher percentage.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Zee and Saint pads have more surface area, and are four piston design (they push against more of the backing plate than a two piston design). I would also suggest using the largest rotor you can fit onto the bike (203 or 200). I would rather ride XT's with 203 rotors than Zee's with a 160 rotor.


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## 2zmtnz (Apr 20, 2017)

I have the MT5's and love them, great power and really good modulation. The Zee's feel like they have a little more ultimate power but that could also be down to how they bite harder sooner in the lever pull. 

I am running 203f/180R and I don't think I could go back to anything smaller on a enduro/ trail rig. maybe on an xc bike. 

I am around 200 as it sits so I would definitely up size to a 4 piston brake and at least 180f&r rotors


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

I have ridden SLX and XT over the past 5 years from 410 lbs geared, now down to 260 geared. I've always had a 203mm rotor in the front, and the biggest I can get on the back. 203F/180R SLX on my Niner ROS 9, 203F/180R XT on myTrek Stache 9 29+ and now 203 F/R on my Bronson. I have never been for want on stopping power. Modulation is incredible, though it takes a good squeeze to lock up my rear wheel. Tonight I was on a new trail, was carrying a bit more speed than I should have because I hit a jump, and there was an unexpected 3ft drop with a 70 degree turn immediately after the landing. I was able to scrub enough speed on landing to stay in control with no problem. I have also ridden in WNC once with no issues. The true test will come this summer as I have a few more trips planned out there and plan on hitting some steeper and faster stuff than I did in January. Do I want Hopes? Hell yes. I just don't have $400-$500 to drop on brakes right now. Until I lose confidence in my XTs I see no reason to replace them anyway.


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## BigJZ74 (Jul 18, 2010)

I would just make sure you go with bigger rotors. I love shimano, Sram just squealed too much for my liking. Definitely go 203mm, and 180 in rear unless 203mm in rear fits. If you go Shimano definitely go ice tech as they cool better. Currently running XT 203 front and rear and gonna switch to the new 8020 XT 4 piston on my both of my bikes....not because I need to, but just want to. At 280lbs with 203 front and rear i've yet to completely fade my brakes even on big DH trails.


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## JackalopeRider (Jun 16, 2013)

Since putting my big brakes on I am down about 80 lbs.. Still love my big brakes!!


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## Camstyn (May 15, 2018)

Yes 200mm rotors are a must. My Capra came with Code RSC’s with 200’s front and rear and I couldn’t ask for more power, they are great. My Vanquish came with Guide Ultimate’s with 180’s and they definitely felt weak by comparison, I wasn’t sure how much of it was the MC/calipers or the rotors. I changed the 180’s to 200’s and they now feel just as strong as the Codes.


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