# Does anyone else bounce all over?



## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

I use clipless and that has helped a lot but whenever I hit a bad root or drop I still have a hard time staying with the bike. I can't leave the bike because I am clipped in but I feel like I have too much bounce. My tire pressure is around 28-30 psi so it isn't high. Would different tires help? My bike is a HT also, so maybe a suspension post? Just looking for advice and tips. I allow my knees to take a lot of the shock on drops and rough spots. I have only been riding since last April so I am sure some of it is experience. Thanks
Sharon


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

just curious, are you in or out of the saddle? My experience has been that if you are keeping your butt on the seat, you can really bounce around, but if you get off the saddle and let your legs ( and arms) work with your bike as shock absorbers, the ride becomes a lot smoother.

formica


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

brownieinSC said:


> I use clipless and that has helped a lot but whenever I hit a bad root or drop I still have a hard time staying with the bike. I can't leave the bike because I am clipped in but I feel like I have too much bounce. My tire pressure is around 28-30 psi so it isn't high. Would different tires help? My bike is a HT also, so maybe a suspension post? Just looking for advice and tips. I allow my knees to take a lot of the shock on drops and rough spots. I have only been riding since last April so I am sure some of it is experience. Thanks
> Sharon


I agree with what formica said. Also, if you are a small person, 28-30 might be a relatively high. Sometimes I can drop the pressure to like 22 and get away with it on bumpy stuff.

I found that going to wider tires helped a lot. Currently I run mutanoraptors on my hardtail and I like them. They are 2.4s. When I first started biking I had little skinny IRC Mythos 1.9's on and it was sure a different world.

Finally, you *are* bouncing around a lot on a hardtail. The only thing that can help that (other than tips here), is rear suspension 

good luck!


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## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

*I left my tire pressure at 28-30*

because it was the lowest recommended on the tire. I am not sure what they are because they came on the bike (Specialized Rockhopper). I was wondering if a wider tire might help with feeling more in control on the downhill. I also wasn't sure if it was safe to take the tire pressure under what it recommended.

I do normally stay off my seat when I am going down a bad section of roots and rocks. I do sit when going uphill and on easy, clear sections of trails. It is a lot easier on the rear that way too!

Do either of you ride with a suspension post? Any tire recommendations?


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## chad1433 (Apr 5, 2004)

You could try a softer rubber - the Kenda Blue Groove/Nevegal series tires have a sticky rubber that really gives you a lot of grip and extra "suspension". The drawback is that they are slow rolling and wear faster. Put a set of those on and you'll notice an immediate difference. They come in 2.1 and 2.35 widths, so check your frames compatibility.

A suspension seatpost won't stop the rear end from bouncing, but it might keep you from bouncing around. Again, stay out of the saddle on the rough. Until you get a FS bike, you'll have to live with HT characteristics...


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## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

*Think I'll upgrade the tires*

I would like to get a suspension post but that is a lot more than new tires. Think I can sneak them on without my husband noticing?  I love buying new gear


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

Greenfish have Thudbuster seat posts on sale for just under $70 at the moment... not a whole lot more than a set of new tyres


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## chad1433 (Apr 5, 2004)

brownieinSC said:


> I would like to get a suspension post but that is a lot more than new tires. Think I can sneak them on without my husband noticing?  I love buying new gear


Probably not...
they got that big lettering K-E-N-D-A!!!!


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*Yeowch!*



Impy said:


> Sometimes I can drop the pressure to like 22 and get away with it on bumpy stuff.


Geez Impy, are you, like, 90 lbs? I ran 35 psi once at a race and pinch flatted on a rock a mile from the end (full suspension bike, too) . I usually run in the high 30's, and I weigh maybe mid-120's all kitted up with my camelback on.

That said, to respond to the original post, I'll bet it's much more technique than anything. Formica covered it; you learn to automatically rise up off of the saddle when anticipating bumps and to absorb the hit with your joints. After a while, you really don't even notice that you are doing it. For what it's worth, my spouse tried a suspension seatpost on his HT and decided it did nothing for him. Keep riding, it'll come.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

I keep flashing on my las HT ride. My FS was torn apart, and I had borrowed a pal's ti- mogoose for some riding. We did two pseudo downhill runs, first one I was bouncing off a lot of stuff and they made me take some air out of the tires. Second run was awesome, I felt like I was dancing with that bike and I really had a good time. Of couse being on a Ti HT when I'm out with the DH crowd is good for lots of laughs for any number of reasons starting with the fact that the bike I was riding wieghed 1/2 of all the others. So I'm thinking a combonation of tires not too hard, and riding light...??? I guess I run around 30 psi most of the time, I weigh 12x or so.

Formica


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## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

*So how low can you go?*

Does it depend on the tires? Will I just pinch a flat easier if I take it down to say 25psi? I do carry a spare tube and pump in case I do. I'll ride again Sunday or Monday on a trail that was throwing me everywhere yesterday.


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## triscuit (Apr 26, 2004)

What psi you can run at definitely depends on the tires. I generally run my tires at 35psi (I am in the 140 range) on my hardtail. I was using a Conti Escape pro 2.25 on the back and it flatted all the time. I finally replaced it with a Panaracer Smoke 2.0, which has never flatted. My Geax Blade 2.25 on the front has never flatted.

But the bouncing thing is mostly technique. You just have to learn to absorb the bounces and then you won't notice them much. I used to HATE rock gardens because the were so jarring, and now, while I still have a ways to go to fully clear the harder ones, they are much less bouncy. While it sounds like you have a start, with staying off your seat, it also requires subtle weight shifting and balance that just comes with practice. Learning how to jump, ride at really slow speeds, track stand, etc. helps to move through stuff more fluidly.


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## Gnarlene (Jan 13, 2004)

*Yep...*

Good advice from all the previous posts..... Stand up. Stay loose. Your arms and legs are your best shock absorbers -- give yourself time to train your instincts to automatically react to the bounces. Relax and have fun.

My recent bouncing story:
I had the good fortune to end up on a moderately rocky trail on my fully rigid commuter bike (with semi-slick BMX tires, pumped to 40+ pounds). At first I was a bit nervous hitting some of the dipsy-doodles. But this bike -- my original mountain bike -- had been out to this trail system before, and I knew it would be OK. Anyway, for the first 5 minutes or so, things seemed pretty bouncy -- well, I'd have to say downright jarring, actually. But then I started to remember how to ride this bike on rocks, and I started to loosen up. Voila, that jarring feeling went away, and the rest of the ride was sheer bliss....


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

MidAtlanticXCer said:


> Geez Impy, are you, like, 90 lbs? I ran 35 psi once at a race and pinch flatted on a rock a mile from the end (full suspension bike, too) . I usually run in the high 30's, and I weigh maybe mid-120's all kitted up with my camelback on.
> 
> That said, to respond to the original post, I'll bet it's much more technique than anything. Formica covered it; you learn to automatically rise up off of the saddle when anticipating bumps and to absorb the hit with your joints. After a while, you really don't even notice that you are doing it. For what it's worth, my spouse tried a suspension seatpost on his HT and decided it did nothing for him. Keep riding, it'll come.


I think she's about 108# . I am 125#, frequently run my tire pressure at about 20 -21#... but then again I use Stan's... so there's no tube to puncture.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

MidAtlanticXCer said:


> Geez Impy, are you, like, 90 lbs? I ran 35 psi once at a race and pinch flatted on a rock a mile from the end (full suspension bike, too) . I usually run in the high 30's, and I weigh maybe mid-120's all kitted up with my camelback on.
> 
> .


Nope I'm not super tiny. I'm about your size. I have only pinch flatted once.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Gnarlene said:


> My recent bouncing story:
> ....


All these stories reminded me of a ride I had not long ago.  I had just built up my new boy (the SS sycip) and was sooo eager to get it out on the trail. The fork, which is a talas R, was a secondhand fork from my SO. So I take it up to the local trails, and I'm coming down the singletrack (westridge for you locals) and I am terrifying myself because I have obviously completely forgotten how to ride a hardtail or so it feels. I am bouncing all over and feel completely out of control - and there are sketchy parts I don't want to be out of control on there!!

I get home, basically happy with the ride, but kind of perplexed. Then the SO comes home and hears my story. He's like "did you reset the fork for your weight?". I was like "OH DUH no".  So I was basically running a rigid fork! Then he was like "oh did you know I pumped your tires up a little?"  He had helpfully pumped them up to 40psi, and I had no idea.

After a few minor adjustments my next ride was great, no bouncy and in control again! Yay.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Wow! I'm feeling like the burly girl again! I run about 35 or more lbs in my tires so I don't pinch flat and I weigh in at about 120. I would be replacing tubes constantly if I ran in the tires at 20. 

If I'm not pedaling I'm usually standing, although since I've been ss'ing most of the time, I stand up when pedaling a lot, too.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

screampint said:


> Wow! I'm feeling like the burly girl again! I run about 35 or more lbs in my tires so I don't pinch flat and I weigh in at about 120. I would be replacing tubes constantly if I ran in the tires at 20.
> 
> If I'm not pedaling I'm usually standing, although since I've been ss'ing most of the time, I stand up when pedaling a lot, too.


I don't get it. I am the same size (or as *burly*) as other gals here. Let me clear up any confusion - I don't *regularly* run the tires at 20-22. But I never put them about 30 either. Maybe my gauge is faulty, but the best way I know to tell if the tire is right is to simply pinch it. If i can squeeze it and it dents a little, its fine (~25-30). If it dents a lot, I need more air(~20). If It doesn't dent at all I need to let air out (>35).

The terrain that I ride in though may let me run this lower pressure - I'm not the worlds gnarliest rider and I never do big drops or anything. There are some rocks here but its not the rockiest place either. THere is a lot of decomposed granite and sand though so I rather like being a little more squishy, better traction that way.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Second that...*



brownieinSC said:


> because it was the lowest recommended on the tire. I am not sure what they are because they came on the bike (Specialized Rockhopper). I was wondering if a wider tire might help with feeling more in control on the downhill. I also wasn't sure if it was safe to take the tire pressure under what it recommended.
> 
> I do normally stay off my seat when I am going down a bad section of roots and rocks. I do sit when going uphill and on easy, clear sections of trails. It is a lot easier on the rear that way too!
> 
> Do either of you ride with a suspension post? Any tire recommendations?


I'm a larger kinda guy, around 195#, and run 2.1s on my FS bike at around 30-35 psi. My rigid SS goes down to 27 psi on 2.3 tires, but I also tend to not go too fast on the SS (it hurts!).

Basically, you can run tires down to the point where you pinch flat and they get squrimy. You may need to experiment with your rig to find where these points are. If you bottom out the tire to the rim, add 3 psi until it stops.


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## MallieD (Apr 11, 2004)

*agree with Impy and the butt out of the seaters*

It'sall about learning what works for you. I don't regularly check that actual pressure of the tires (leave that to the bike geek hubby more often than not), but I do the squeeze test before every ride. Depending on the trail chosen for the day I make minor adjustments. And I always have my pump in my camelbak to make small adjustments while on the trail. You never know what a little wind will do to your average every day terrain here in GA. Leaves, leaves and more leaves.

Also I second, third and fourth the many posts re: technique. You just get the feel of how to lift and hover off and over the seat. And everyone is different. I really get out of the seat, while some of my friends barely look like they've lifted their backside. It works for me to really rise and use my legs to pump and absorb (it probably comes from years of being in constant ready mode as a goalkeeper).

Last little tidbit...I noticed on rooty climbs (long climbs that you sit or sit up and down on) I'm less bouncy when I make sure I'm in the right gear. If the gear is too "easy" I bonce a lot more. I find a harder gear actually evens me out and ensures Ilose less energy through bounce.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

I definitely have rocks in my area. I guess that's the determining factor for me.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

screampint said:


> Wow! I'm feeling like the burly girl again! I run about 35 or more lbs in my tires so I don't pinch flat and I weigh in at about 120. I would be replacing tubes constantly if I ran in the tires at 20.
> 
> If I'm not pedaling I'm usually standing, although since I've been ss'ing most of the time, I stand up when pedaling a lot, too.


worry not, burly girl. i tend to run my tires around 27-28 psi to avoid pinch flats and i weigh in at a super-burly 105.......and i still managed to pinch flat in 2 separate races last year. guess that's what i get for trying to ride my HT like it's a FS. 

rt


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2005)

keep in mind that, if your arm and leg muscles are overly tensed when rolling over (hitting) rocks and roots, your body will go all over the place, even if your butt is off the seat.

get off the seat, stay loose, and try to float over the terrain.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

*rt* said:


> worry not, burly girl. i tend to run my tires around 27-28 psi to avoid pinch flats and i weigh in at a super-burly 105.......and i still managed to pinch flat in 2 separate races last year. guess that's what i get for trying to ride my HT like it's a FS.
> 
> rt


Speed probably contributes a lot to pinch flatting too. rt is definitely speedy and definitely not burly. screampint I bet you are pretty fast on that rocky terrain.

Screampint I can't believe you ride rigid out there. Don't your wrists want to fall off?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Tire pressure is going to vary depending on your weight and tire size. If you are running a true 2.0 casing tire like a python, Schawlbe 2.25, Conti 2.3 (all the same casing size, you can find the size at Shiggy's site) and you weigh 120-140 you should be in the 25-30 psi range to start with. FYI, for the same tire size, I run 35-40 psi and I weigh 225 pounds. 

If you are not already, start running a large casing volume tire. They ride much better, don't pinch flat as easily and have more traction. 1.7-1.9 tires are slower over most terrain than larger volume tires.


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## SplijinX (Jul 2, 2004)

You can also put a coating of baby/talcum powder on your tubes to prevent it from sticking to the tire. It allows the tube to float around a bit more than usual and not allow itself to pinch so you can run your tires a bit lower without flatting as often.

There's also a product that I've been using called Slippery Toobs: http://www.rocklube.com/products_detail_slipperytoobs.html

Frankly, it feels and smells like over-glorified soap water (think slightly watered down dish detergent), BUT I've only had one pinch flat since August between racing and training. The flat was probably my fault since I didn't check my air pressure before I went out that day. Generally I run 35 psi and I am ~140 pounds, but have gone as low as 30 psi without any problems.

As for maneuvering over roots and drops sometimes it helps keep your weight and going faster. It's kinda like going over a pot hole on the interstate versus going over a pot hole on a residential street - you feel a slight rumble when you're flying down the road at 65mph, but at 15mph you feel your car sink and take the hit. Please do use some caution if you play around with speed, I'd hate to have you fly into a tree or something. Just add a little bit at a time to see if it helps out.

And for drops that you are coming at with some speed, it may help to lift up your front wheel a bit and try to land it with more weight on rear wheel. Anyhow, good luck and happy trails!


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## MightySchmoePong (Jan 12, 2004)

*many sharp rocks here*



Impy said:


> The terrain that I ride in though may let me run this lower pressure


My favorite trails hereabouts are very very rocky, and the rocks are often sharp and set into the ground. So yes, I'd have to agree that terrain is a big factor! I am also a lousy slick-conditions rider, probably because I run too high psi when it's wet.

Oops, sorry, this is MidAtlanticXCer, forgot to logout my spouse.


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## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

*Tomorrow*

I will try my tires at 25 psi and see how that does. I weigh in at 130. I do stay off my seat a good deal down hill but it also makes my knees rather sore (my knees get sore from hiking/backpacking also ~ I just have my dad's genes). I have never adjusted my fork since I bought the bike really. I know there are two nobs there you can play with but I have never really messed with them. Maybe that is part of my problem also. I never like spending time messing around with my bike once I get out there because I just want to ride! But guess I'll have to take the time to make my ride more enjoyable also


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## jcarney (Jan 1, 2005)

brownie: I'll just add a small bit to what's already been posted. Riding through bumpy stuff on a hardtail, even with the right tires, will still be a bit, well, bumpy. The easiest way to make it through such sections of trail, the previous suggestions of floating or riding light are the most obvious AND difficult. When walking, some people thud their feet into the floor while others seem to barely touch it. This is what you need to do on the bike and it does take strength. Techniques needed are pushing, pulling and lifting your bike while you are still on it. When you approach a rock with front tire, lift the front to get it lighter, then push the front forward to go over the rock, then pull through the back to get the back wheel to do the same. Practicing riding over a single 'baby head' size rock will help. The trick is, now, to do all these little moves while riding over a bunch of rocks. It will take time and lots of riding to get the technique down. As for going down steps/rocks/drops, the same techniques will help you keep steady when landing. You say you started riding in April. Don't worry, keep riding and these things will get easier. One day you're going to be riding a tricky section that you won't have any difficulty with. You'll turn around and smile at how you once thought how difficult it was while others stand aside and say Wow, You're good!


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## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

*Trees love me*

I have ran smack into a few and had my handle bar clipped for nice rides through the air many times. I actually love flying down hill (that couldn't possibly be of my control issue, right?!) but I think it scares my poor husband. 
The only time I really use the technique of pulling up to clear something is if I can't clear it otherwise (like a log). I'm going to my favorite wrecking spot tomorrow (Southside State Park) and I'll try to use it on more than just log jumps. Maybe even in the rock garden


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## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

*Reporting in after my ride today*

I took my tires down to 26psi and my fork as loose as it would go. That did help but I had to get use to the way the tires felt at a lower psi on curves. No wrecks  and I really tried to stay out of my seat in downhill and flat sections ~ I have to sit down for an uphill section unless I am just standing for that extra last bit. The trail we rode today is a little over 9 miles. The first part is just constant up and down hill, roots galore, barely making it between the trees...and then you have about 2 miles of serenity in the middle. it is flat, the trees are far apart, few roots.....And then the madness starts all over again. It is an extremely rooty trail so I got a lot of practice and time to feel the difference. Thanks for the advice everyone. Now to decide on tires. Does anyone run two different size tires for front and rear? does it help a lot with your downhill descent?


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Nice job! I'm glad to hear that the changes made for some positive results. I do not run two different tires widths, but I know people that like a big fat tire up front for more cushion, traction in the corners, and less propensity for pinch flats.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*depends on tire size, too...*

... and IIRC, Impy (if I may speak for her) is on fatty 2.4 Mutanoraptors and/or Trailbears. The bigger the tire, the less pressure it needs to stay in shape.

I guess it depends on where you ride. I pinch flatted three times in one ride at the downieville gathering running my normal air pressure, but I almost never even bottom the rim or get flats elsewhere.


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*tire size and brand*

Good point indeed. In fact, when I pinch flatted running 35 psi, it was on itty bitty 2.1 Mythos XC tires. My Conti 2.1's and my new Kenda 2.1's are much burlier tires, for all that the "size" is the same.


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

brownieinSC said:


> I took my tires down to 26psi and my fork as loose as it would go. That did help but I had to get use to the way the tires felt at a lower psi on curves. No wrecks  and I really tried to stay out of my seat in downhill and flat sections ~ I have to sit down for an uphill section unless I am just standing for that extra last bit. The trail we rode today is a little over 9 miles. The first part is just constant up and down hill, roots galore, barely making it between the trees...and then you have about 2 miles of serenity in the middle. it is flat, the trees are far apart, few roots.....And then the madness starts all over again. It is an extremely rooty trail so I got a lot of practice and time to feel the difference. Thanks for the advice everyone. Now to decide on tires. Does anyone run two different size tires for front and rear? does it help a lot with your downhill descent?


I now a lady that likes to run a big fat tire up front and skinny in back. Her reasonin is the wide tire in the front for stable cornering, skinny and not mu knob in the back for speed.

As someone mentioned before, experiment. Try lots and see what works for you. And differents things are better for different places and conditions.


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## xjohnnyx (Mar 19, 2004)

*Bouncy Bouncy*

My girlfriend is too small on top to bounce around much.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

You really are pathietic aren't you?


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## xjohnnyx (Mar 19, 2004)

*You really....*



screampint said:


> You really are pathietic aren't you?


Have no sense of humor...sheesh. Chill out lady and back off.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Like you, I ride a ss. It's against my nature to back off.


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## MightySchmoePong (Jan 12, 2004)

*Actually they were 1.9's*



MidAtlanticXCer said:


> Good point indeed. In fact, when I pinch flatted running 35 psi, it was on itty bitty 2.1 Mythos XC tires. My Conti 2.1's and my new Kenda 2.1's are much burlier tires, for all that the "size" is the same.


Tiny little things, as were the Conti 2.1's that we're just replaced. The kenda's are much larger, and we'll probably need to determine what tire pressure works.


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## MightySchmoePong (Jan 12, 2004)

*Wow.*



CDMC said:


> FYI, for the same tire size, I run 35-40 psi and I weigh 225 pounds.


When I weighed 200 pounds I ran my Vertical pro's @ close to 50 psi and pinch flatted constantly. I actually had 8 pinch flats in 6 rides. I got down to 160 pounds and ran them around 40-45 and only got the occasional pinch flat (once every 4-5 rides I'd guess).

I'm running my 2.1 Nevegals @ 40 psi and so far so good. I'd be surprised if I could go much lower w/o pinch flatting.

I suspect a lot depends on riding style and terrain. I tends to bash at high speed through rocks; not exactly a "finesse" rider.

Dave


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

xjohnnyx said:


> Have no sense of humor...sheesh. Chill out lady and back off.


 hey dude
you have entered the ladies room. YOU back off and behave yourself. if you dont like being treated like an ass stop acting like one.

you owe all of us an apology for your childish posts. i wont hold my breath though, jerks like you just dont get it. ask trailthumper.

Rita


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

xjohnnyx said:


> You really ...Have no sense of humor...sheesh. .


Actually, neither do you. You only have poor taste masquerading as a sense of humor.


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## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

*Maybe I'll buy*

two different kind of tires. Maybe that would be too much change though to be able to tell which one I like the most. I am looking at one of the Kendra tires and one of the Panaracer (think that is how you spell the brand). The Panaracer only comes in 2.1 (that I can find) and I would like to ride something wider.


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

brownieinSC said:


> two different kind of tires. Maybe that would be too much change though to be able to tell which one I like the most. I am looking at one of the Kendra tires and one of the Panaracer (think that is how you spell the brand). The Panaracer only comes in 2.1 (that I can find) and I would like to ride something wider.


Panaracer has a Fire FR 2.4". you could also try IRC Trailbear, it is a 2.25". Trailbear and Fire have similiar tread but i find the trailbear rolls a bit faster. my frame wont take a 2.4" tire but i love the trailbear front and rear.

Rita


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

brownieinSC said:


> two different kind of tires. Maybe that would be too much change though to be able to tell which one I like the most. I am looking at one of the Kendra tires and one of the Panaracer (think that is how you spell the brand). The Panaracer only comes in 2.1 (that I can find) and I would like to ride something wider.


Brownie,

Being I don't know the conditions in SC, it is hard to suggest a specific tire, but I would recommend that you look at Shiggy's mtb tire website and check the ACTUAL size of any tires before purchasing them. Manufactures are very inconsistant in their sizing, so you end up with a Hutchinson 2.0 being equal in size to a Contenental 2.3. For cross country riding that doesn't involve mud, I would strongly encourage you to check out the Schawlbe Racing Ralph 2.25, Hutchinson Python 2.0 and WTB MutanoRaptor 2.4 (probably the best of the three for all around riding). You may want to ask on the Tire board for your specific riding conditions what would work best.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

brownieinSC said:


> I took my tires down to 26psi and my fork as loose as it would go. That did help but I had to get use to the way the tires felt at a lower psi on curves.
> -snip-
> Does anyone run two different size tires for front and rear? does it help a lot with your downhill descent?


2.3-2.5 front tire is nice for control, but frame clearance might limit your rear tire size. Plus a fat, knobby rear tire will slow you down more than the front, like was mentioned.


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