# would yall consider a 22" wheel MTB for your kid?



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

This idea was raised by TwoTone over in the "Why we need this wheel size" thread in the _650b, 69er and new wheel trends_ forum. . . 
Why we need this wheel size- Mtbr.com

I had mentioned that one company, Faction, from England, have been promoting 22" wheel BMX bikes. Although the people that have tried them love them, the both the BMX industry and mainstream media have been very silent.

TwoTone's post made me think . . . . maybe there could be a substantial market for 22" X 1.75 and 22" X 1.95/2.10 tires if companies made an middle-option children's MTB with normal-fat 22" tires. I realize that bmx mini wheels/tires are actually taller than 20"... but these would be full size tires....

So, would yall consider a 22"-wheel MTB for your kid?

I'm imagining there could be a singlespeed bmx-ish version looking something like the Intense that *wycough *put together--only with the wheels obviously being 22".










As well as a version that looks more like a geared Hot Rock.










_DK 24" next to a Faction Zeitgeist 22"_









_FIT 20" next to a custom Webbco 22"_


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

My opinion is to get something viable with the two existing supported tire sizes in 20" and 24". There's not much support but there's more than trying to bring in entirely new tire size to market. Work should happen to create a mtn bike racing league which supports younger age groups. The racing will encourage manufacturer's to create better bikes than the current tank offerings we have today. The racing will create higher visibility and new and improved technology could than be benchmarked against the current standards of 20" and 24".


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

stom_m3 said:


> My opinion is to get something viable with the two existing supported tire sizes in 20" and 24". There's not much support but there's more than trying to bring in entirely new tire size to market. Work should happen to create a mtn bike racing league which supports younger age groups. The racing will encourage manufacturer's to create better bikes than the current tank offerings we have today. The racing will create higher visibility and new and improved technology could than be benchmarked against the current standards of 20" and 24".


The reason I said something in the other thread was my son was just a touch too small for the 24 when it was time to upgrade from the 16. The 20 is an ok fit, but a 22 would have been perfect when we were looking. Nothing wrong with choice..


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> The reason I said something in the other thread was my son was just a touch too small for the 24 when it was time to upgrade from the 16. The 20 is an ok fit, but a 22 would have been perfect when we were looking. Nothing wrong with choice..


Don't take my post the wrong way. I think choice is great but you are asking for another choice when the first two are done sub par to begin with. Take for example Intense BMX frames. Because of the competitive nature of BMX racing, I have 11 frame sizes to choose from; mini, mini XL, junior, junior XL, expert, expert XL, junior pro, Pro, Pro XL, Pro XL+ and ProXXL. The separation between frames is 1/2-1" in top tube length. I can get my kid dialed in to exactly his size frame to be as efficient and comfortable as possible. I would rather see a manufacturer concentrate on offering higher levels of fit and higher level of components than to do another subpar offering in 22". If 22" was to be the new standard, I'm all for it but let's make sure we do that standard well.

Also, it seems like a large jump from a 16" to a 24". Why not try the 20"? Or just build a smaller 24" with a zero reach stem and low seat. Just my opinion. Good luck on the build.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

stom_m3 said:


> Don't take my post the wrong way. I think choice is great but you are asking for another choice when the first two are done sub par to begin with. Take for example Intense BMX frames. Because of the competitive nature of BMX racing, I have 11 frame sizes to choose from; mini, mini XL, junior, junior XL, expert, expert XL, junior pro, Pro, Pro XL, Pro XL+ and ProXXL. The separation between frames is 1/2-1" in top tube length. I can get my kid dialed in to exactly his size frame to be as efficient and comfortable as possible. I would rather see a manufacturer concentrate on offering higher levels of fit and higher level of components than to do another subpar offering in 22". If 22" was to be the new standard, I'm all for it but let's make sure we do that standard well.
> 
> Also, it seems like a large jump from a 16" to a 24". Why not try the 20"? Or just build a smaller 24" with a zero reach stem and low seat. Just my opinion. Good luck on the build.


He has a 20, no choice.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

stom_m3 said:


> . . . trying to bring in entirely new tire size to market. . . .


I know what you mean . . . but just wanted to put a reminder out there that this tire size already exists. Just not common.

*Sunlite MTB Tire 22 x 1.75 Black/Black $9.33*

Amazon.com: Sunlite MTB Tire 22 x 1.75 Black/Black: Sports & Outdoors

*Sunlite Bicycle Tube 22 x 1.75 SCHRADER Valve*
Amazon.com: Sunlite Bicycle Tube 22 x 1.75 SCHRADER Valve: Sports & Outdoors


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## PghYinzer (Sep 28, 2011)

My son just outgrew his 18" (actually maybe it's been outgrown for a while and I have just been blind) and I skipped 20" and got a trek 220. I love how you can adjust the crank to make the 24" bike fit a small rider. Personally I think a super adjustable 24" is a better option, at least financially, than a 22" ... fwiw, though, he doesn't even need the smaller setting. I was going to move the pedals to try it that way and he had a fit. "I'm tall for my age, it's FINE!"


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

A little update on this front. 22" wheel BMX bikes have been steadily growing in popularity in BMX over the last 6 years.

I'd still be interested to know if any MTB companies will put them out as an in-between option for youth mtb.

The Union - BMX » Insight: 22 Inch Wheels

The Revenge 22" rim and the S&M Mainline 22" bmx tire are both easily available. 
Revenge BMX Wheel Black 22 inch Rim 36 Spokes s M Faction Induct Rims 22" | eBay

If you put 22" wheels on a bike designed for 24"s, rim brakes obviously won't work, but there would be no problem for disc brakes.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

cmc4130 said:


> A little update on this front. 22" wheel BMX bikes have been steadily growing in popularity in BMX over the last 6 years.
> 
> I'd still be interested to know if any MTB companies will put them out as an in-between option for youth mtb.
> 
> ...


But you end up with the same issue as a XS 26er with 24 inch wheels, the rest of the frame is still too big- especially reach. So it goes back to why?

It's one thing to offer adults several choices, it's another for kids that skip that 2 inch jump in a single winter. It's probably why kids bike have the 4 inch jumps 12-16-20-14-26. I based on my two kids, 18 and 22 wouldn't have accomplished anything for my kids.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> But you end up with the same issue as a XS 26er with 24 inch wheels, the rest of the frame is still too big- especially reach. So it goes back to why?
> 
> It's one thing to offer adults several choices, it's another for kids that skip that 2 inch jump in a single winter. It's probably why kids bike have the 4 inch jumps 12-16-20-14-26. I based on my two kids, 18 and 22 wouldn't have accomplished anything for my kids.


Fair enough.

Ideally the bike would be built around 22" wheels (not just like putting 24"s on a 26" frame and fork).

I guess 4" increments are most common, but 14" and 18" wheel bikes are definitely out there. In BMX, there are a lot of companies with 18"s.

I understand the point about growing fast.... It seems like kids frequently have to face sizing problems that adults don't. (Like would we be okay with 24" or 28" but no 26"?)

I get your point though. That's why I'm asking.... ; )


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

FWIW, 18" has been a magic size for my kid as far as BMX bikes go. We've got a number of years out of his park bike where he was way too big for a 16" and not big enough for a 20". Though for the same period, he's been on a 24" for MTB; I think we probably would've gone with a 22" for MTB when he was younger; would probably fit similarly but roll along better than a 20".


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

I think a better solution would be better designed 24" bikes. The frame geometry on most of them is terrible. Look at chainstay lengths and crank lengths for starters. There is a lot of room there for a smaller framed 24" bike while maintaining a larger wheel. I'd rather see a well designed 24" bike.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> FWIW, 18" has been a magic size for my kid as far as BMX bikes go. We've got a number of years out of his park bike where he was way too big for a 16" and not big enough for a 20". Though for the same period, he's been on a 24" for MTB; I think we probably would've gone with a 22" for MTB when he was younger; would probably fit similarly but roll along better than a 20".


Right on!


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Fargo1 said:


> I think a better solution would be better designed 24" bikes. The frame geometry on most of them is terrible. Look at chainstay lengths and crank lengths for starters. There is a lot of room there for a smaller framed 24" bike while maintaining a larger wheel. I'd rather see a well designed 24" bike.


Yeah, that makes sense. Even if you look at some of the 24"-specific Dirt Jump bikes out there (that are intended for teens/adults), they have shorter chainstays than a lot of the typical 24" "youth" mtb's.

Look at the short back end on this Black Market Contraband 24":









Now look at the long back end on the Specialized Hot Rock 24"- youth


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

The long rears is why I went with Marin, much shorter than all 24s I looked at. I've mentioned in several posts, my son notice the difference when going from his Marin Bayview to his sisters Cannondale race 24.

After the first ride on her bike he asked if it was bigger without me saying a word. That's why when I read comments that kids can't tell a difference, I disagree. Let them ride two bikes back to back and they can tell.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm still interested to see someone build a youth mtb with 22"s. The rims and tires are easily available.

One of y'all could be the first.

Here's another comparison shot of 20"s next to 22"s on bmx:










And 22"s next to 24"s. Note how having a fat/tall tire makes the outer diameter close to a narrow/lower profile 24"s tire.


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## BATRG3 (Dec 11, 2012)

With the availability of 20+ bikes, in particular the Specialized Riprock, perhaps a 22" tire might make a good alternative wheel set for pavement. A good strategy if you want top quality components but want to avoid having a separate premium road bike and MTB.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

BATRG3 said:


> With the availability of 20+ bikes, in particular the Specialized Riprock, perhaps a 22" tire might make a good alternative wheel set for pavement. A good strategy if you want top quality components but want to avoid having a separate premium road bike and MTB.


Wow. I did not know there was a 20+ size now. Would it have the same bead seat diameter as 20", just with a wider rim?

Specialized Unveils First Full Range of Plus Size Bikes for Kids with Riprock 20 and 24! - Bikerumor


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## BATRG3 (Dec 11, 2012)

I picked up a set of 22" rims cheap. A part of me wants to go ahead and build them up on disc hubs for my son's future Riprock.

My son just turned 3 and is barely flirting with a 12.5".


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

BATRG3 said:


> I picked up a set of 22" rims cheap. A part of me wants to go ahead and build them up on disc hubs for my son's future Riprock.
> 
> My son just turned 3 and is barely flirting with a 12.5".


heh, cool! which 22" rims did you get?

most people have been buying the Revenge 22" rims:
Revenge Industries 22" Black Arc Rim 36 Hole Double Wall s M Holmes ATF Faction | eBay

here's another comparison pic: 20", 22", 24"


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

TwoTone said:


> He has a 20, no choice.


He's go the choice of a bigger framed 20 or smaller framed 24....
Neither of which has much choice simply because there are already too many sizes in the market... including multiple 20" wheels and multiple 24" wheels...

I'd rather see better choice and standardisation on what we have.... or the 22" wil simply mean less choice.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Steve-XtC said:


> I'd rather see better choice and standardisation on what we have.... or the 22" wil simply mean less choice.


I think this is so true in many sizes. With the advent of the 27.5 you can't even find a decent 26" to put a kid on when they out grow a 24. So now they have to jump from 24" to 27.5". I'd rather see the big mfg put more time and money into kids 26" than inventing a new 22" bike


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## BATRG3 (Dec 11, 2012)

cmc4130 said:


> heh, cool! which 22" rims did you get?
> 
> most people have been buying the Revenge 22" rims:
> Revenge Industries 22" Black Arc Rim 36 Hole Double Wall s M Holmes ATF Faction | eBay
> ...


I got he cheap Wheelmasters from JB. Wouldn't have bought them this far ahead, but they were cheap and on the off chance they were unavailable I figured I'd grab a set.

I wasn't aware of the Revenge rims. I like that they're 36h vs Wheelmaster's 28h, for better hub selection.


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## Karamatsu (Apr 26, 2017)

Hi, new user here, and apologies if digging up an old thread is bad form. I was looking around on the Net for kids' bike sizing info and ended up here.

I just wanted to say that we actually have a 22" kids mountain bike, Giant used to sell one in Japan where we live called the 220MTX. Here's a pic.








My son's has a white frame, but it's very similar. It's in Japanese, but here's the spec info.
2008 Giant Bicycle [MTX 220] -fullspecs-

I got it used, and chose it because I wanted a bike with three chainrings (we live on a hill), but with a solid fork. Kids don't have the bodyweight to activate a sus fork and I think they just make heavy bikes even heavier. The 220MTX is 11.4kg, which is lighter than the Merida 20inch 1x7 and useless fork bike we also have. I wasn't looking specifically for a 22 inch bike, it just appeared in auction listings. I didn't realize how rare they are.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Karamatsu said:


> Hi, new user here, and apologies if digging up an old thread is bad form. I was looking around on the Net for kids' bike sizing info and ended up here.
> 
> I just wanted to say that we actually have a 22" kids mountain bike, Giant used to sell one in Japan where we live called the 220MTX. Here's a pic.
> View attachment 1134051
> ...


Do the wheels have a 457mm bead seat diameter?

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

It would be cool to see a smaller version of the TRANSITION RIPCORD 24" with 22" wheels.

https://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_Ripcord.cfm

My son is only 2, but a few years from now, I plan on doing a 22" wheel MTB for him.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Having just done a lot of looking around for a 4.5yo, there's a LOT of variance in the sizing and fit of 20" bikes.

I'd looked a little at 18" options as an in between step from 16" to 20", but decided to just try jumping to a smaller 20" due to better options for parts.

I'm not sure I'm convinced that 22" has a lot to offer compared to 20+ or something like a 20" rear / 24" front.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

cmc4130 said:


> It would be cool to see a smaller version of the TRANSITION RIPCORD 24" with 22" wheels.
> 
> https://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_Ripcord.cfm
> 
> My son is only 2, but a few years from now, I plan on doing a 22" wheel MTB for him.


It sounds good from your current position but for me looking backwards ??
The Ripcord already uses a 26" fork... hard enough to get now ... and although the current 16/20/24 isn't ideal it has parts available. My boy just went from his 24" FS onto an adult XS 27.5 and for now running 26" wheels... but every bike from 1st to last you end up paying more than you want for the time they are on it... so much as its not ideal the stretches from one to the next where they are a bit small and end up a bit big do mean you end up spending on a better bike overall. (I don't know anyone kept the forks on the Ripcord for example...I'm sure plenty do not saying they don't but many people either buy frame or swap forks ) .. new wheels etc.

Just my 2c.... with perhaps the benefit of looking backwards.


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## BATRG3 (Dec 11, 2012)

Thinking this would be a good smooth road tire wheelset for a 20x3 bike like a Roscoe or a Timberjack.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

So, the bead seat diameter on a BMX mini (as well as OS20) is 451mm and BSD on 22" is 457mm.

Here are some comparisons. 
12" next to 16"










12" next to 20 X 1 3/8" (mini, 451mm BSD)









20" BMX next to 22" BMX









24" BMX and 22" BMX









24" next to BMX mini (20 X 1 3/8" or 451 bead seat diameter)









Union Street Molly Maguire 24" DJ next to Black Market Mob 26" DJ









Specialized HotRock 20" next to Indust 2ton 22"-wheel BMX


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

SPAWN Cycles has a 22” kids MTB now. (Actually a few models).

Yama Jama 22"


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## Chris948 (Nov 23, 2010)

cmc4130 said:


> SPAWN Cycles has a 22” kids MTB now. (Actually a few models).
> 
> Yama Jama 22"


There's some info here I think.









Spawn 22” hardtail


I’m pretty excited about this new offering from Spawn. My son rides the Woom off air 4 at 49.5” barefoot and 50 pounds fully dressed. I built him a 24” hardtail and it seems too big for him for trail maneuvering though we’ve only had him ride it on the street. I’m likely to place an order to...




www.mtbr.com





I personally wouldn't bother as the last kid went from a 20" to a 24" in like 8 months, but YMMV.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Chris948 said:


> There's some info here I think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see this as an alternative path. 22 -> 26 -> 29 instead of 20-24-27.5

The reason I'm thinking this way is my 5yo boy twin is _huge_.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Darth Lefty said:


> I see this as an alternative path. 22 -> 26 -> 29 instead of 20-24-27.5
> 
> The reason I'm thinking this way is my 5yo boy twin is _huge_.


I like that path!!


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Darth Lefty said:


> I see this as an alternative path. 22 -> 26 -> 29 instead of 20-24-27.5
> 
> The reason I'm thinking this way is my 5yo boy twin is _huge_.


Standover height and reach can be pretty tall/long. That's a big jump!


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Kids learn to ride what they have…


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

unrooted said:


> Kids learn to ride what they have…


Agree to a point, but a decent and properly fitting bike can make a big difference.
I see lots of kids on bikes that are too big/small or improperly set up being hindered by them.

I've put a lot of kids who I see trying to handle a 20" on our spare 18" and it's like night and day.
That was a magic size for my son for a number of years between 16 and 20.
(Talking BMX/pump/jump of course.)


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

In the end I didn't because I felt a Spawn was a higher skill level bike than this particular kid's riding can justify. But if there were a $700 bike with 22" tires it would have had a shot.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Chris948 said:


> I personally wouldn't bother as the last kid went from a 20" to a 24" in like 8 months, but YMMV.


All depends on how fast the kid happens to be growing. My son only got one season on his 16inch bike before it was too small for him, but looks like he will ride his 20 inch bike for 2 full seasons, maybe more.


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