# Smacked head on tree branch -- new helmet time?



## jond63 (May 26, 2010)

Hit my head pretty good on a low hanging tree and saw lightning as everything went bright white for a second but otherwise ok and thankfully no neck compression. On the very top around the center vent there are two gentle 1mm dents and no visible cracking of the eps foam -- should I just go ahead and replace it or are minor dents ok? I do believe the helmet saved me from a decent injury, but I don't want to chuck it prematurely either...


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## JPSeuropa (Jul 12, 2010)

Its a backup now. Treat yourself to a new helmet. Dented...it did its job.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I think for me it depends on how old the helmet is in the first place. Assuming it's not an 'old' helmet (less than 2 years old), personally, I'd probably keep it, but know that it's been "compromised" and will need to be replaced after a 2nd hit anywhere on the helmet. If it's more than 2 years old, I'd probably replaced it.
I'm guessing I'll be in the minority with this opinion.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

How do you feel about the idea of having a hard wreck with that helmet on?

I hit...something...(funny story) with mine on and had the same reaction. In an inspection, I still felt safe wearing it and continued to do so for a year or two.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

For me, that would be a gut decision, depending on age and prior impacts. I don't crash very often, and our trails aren't really very rowdy.... if I did, I'd probably replace it. 

Another thing is, a lot of companies have crash replacement programs, where you can save a few bucks on the replacement. Worth looking into.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

jond63 said:


> Hit my head pretty good on a low hanging tree and saw lightning as everything went bright white for a second but otherwise ok and thankfully no neck compression. On the very top around the center vent there are two gentle 1mm dents and no visible cracking of the eps foam -- should I just go ahead and replace it or are minor dents ok? I do believe the helmet saved me from a decent injury, but I don't want to chuck it prematurely either...


You hit hard enough to whiteout, thats a pretty good hit. Id replace at earliest convenience. I had a road crash a few months ago and had no head issues but heard the helmet hit ground ans small dent and scratches. I replaced once the helmet i wanted cAme in stock. I have yet to cut apart my helmet to see what kind of damage there is.
Modern microshell helmets the polycarb microshell is remarkably tought, we took a baseball bat to one of friends retired helmets and it took a significant beating for it to show big damage. 
So id say replace, but no need to rush out today. Youre likely okay unless you hit the same spot.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Sidewalk said:


> How do you feel about the idea of having a hard wreck with that helmet on?
> 
> I hit...something...(funny story) with mine on and had the same reaction. In an inspection, I still felt safe wearing it and continued to do so for a year or two.


Lol, I did the same thing way back in the late 90's, early 2000's at one of our local thursday evening training races. A tree had fallen across a fast section and had vines and stuff all over it. It was high enough (I thought ?) to go under, figuring the ivy and such was hanging and there was a margin there. There wasn't. I took it pretty hard to the helmet and felt like I was a turtle that was getting its head jammed down into its shell. Saw a flash of white and stars too! I kept using the helmet for quite some time after that.

I got lucky though. Another rider ended up getting a nasty gash on his upper back from a protruding broken branch that was off to the side from where I was going under it. It was one of those things were we all saw humor in it though. Ah to be young!


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## jond63 (May 26, 2010)

jochribs said:


> Lol, I did the same thing way back in the late 90's, early 2000's at one of our local thursday evening training races. A tree had fallen across a fast section and had vines and stuff all over it. It was high enough (I thought 😁) to go under, figuring the ivy and such was hanging and there was a margin there. There wasn't. I took it pretty hard to the helmet and felt like I was a turtle that was getting its head jammed down into its shell. Saw a flash of white and stars too! I kept using the helmet for quite some time after that.


Funny thing is, I've ridden this trail 100s of times and even went through the section 20-30 minutes before just fine! I didn't even see it coming! Somehow the branch is much closer to the trail now, I noticed I really have to duck now where I cruised through before. I think someone swung from it and pulled the dead tree over a bit... I might drive down there with a saw.

I felt that exact same thing like a turtle getting its head pushed in! Ouch! I don't think any new neck injury and I thank my helmet for that too. I can still feel it if I think about it! THWACK!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

jond63 said:


> I felt that exact same thing like a turtle getting its head pushed in! Ouch! I don't think any new neck injury and I thank my helmet for that too. I can still feel it if I think about it! THWACK!


Lol! It'll make for a good story for years to come! Glad you're good!


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## FreuderLocks (May 20, 2010)

jond63 said:


> Hit my head pretty good on a low hanging tree and saw lightning as everything went bright white for a second but otherwise ok and thankfully no neck compression. On the very top around the center vent there are two gentle 1mm dents and no visible cracking of the eps foam -- should I just go ahead and replace it or are minor dents ok? I do believe the helmet saved me from a decent injury, but I don't want to chuck it prematurely either...


Yes new helmet time. It sucks but, once they are damaged they have done their job. Period.
-Paul


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Nobody can say for certain there is no structural damage, without doing destructive testing to identify any internal damage that isn't visible. 

If you saw a brand new helmet with the same damage in a bike shop at full price, would you buy it? Or would you think the bike shop was crazy for trying to sell an obviously dented helmet?


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## ctxcrossx (Jan 13, 2004)

r-rocket said:


> If you saw a brand new helmet with the same damage in a bike shop at full price, would you buy it? Or would you think the bike shop was crazy for trying to sell an obviously dented helmet?


That's not the same thing at all.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

FreuderLocks said:


> Yes new helmet time. It sucks but, once they are damaged they have done their job. Period.


Nonsense.

Helmet got dinged. No cracks. Just a battle scar. Replace only when structurally compromised and keep your perfectly usable equipment out of the landfill.

Damn, the quantities of waste people in the mtb community espouse is out of control.


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## FreuderLocks (May 20, 2010)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> Helmet got dinged. No cracks. Just a battle scar. Replace only when structurally compromised and keep your perfectly usable equipment out of the landfill.
> 
> Damn, the quantities of waste people in the mtb community espouse is out of control.


Its not about the damage that you _can_ see, its about the damage you _can't_ see.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

FreuderLocks said:


> Its not about the damage that you _can_ see, its about the damage you _can't_ see.


With that logic, I'd be replacing my bike every few months.


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## FreuderLocks (May 20, 2010)

D. Inoobinati said:


> With that logic, I'd be replacing my bike every few months.


your bike doesnt protect your head, plus bikes are designed _not _to fail. Helmets on the other hand are designed to fail and have a shelf life, damaged or undamaged. Its like going into good will and seeing used car seats for kids (or even used helmets) and asking yourself, "do i trust that to protect my child/head in an accident? maybe its already been in one."

Whats the downside of a $50 helmet versus your ability to speak, breathe on your own or live? If $50 wins out over safety this is the wrong sport for you.

-Paul


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I have a helmet with a few little dings in it. It's fine.
But, if you think it is degraded at all, get a new one. That's your call.

The one thing I would recommend. Get a MIPS. I've crashed on the pre-MIPS and the MIPS. The difference in impact absorption/rotation is significant.
If I were to get a new helmet, I'd look hard at the Troy Lee A2....MIPS and dual density foam.


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

I did the same thing and replaced the helmet, which became my backup helmet. I have to take care of my melon and did hit the helmet pretty hard so why chance it. Besides a new helmet is not that expensive, less than $200 and puts my mind at ease. 

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


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## jond63 (May 26, 2010)

I did end up getting a new helmet, and it's mips. My old one was mips too and _maybe_ it helped with the branch? It was a pretty hard hit and my immediate thought was, "glad I didn't compression fracture my neck, and dang now I need a new helmet." Just got cheap for a second and debated it...

Luckily I haven't actually smashed a helmet in a long time, last time was an early Giro and then a Specialized all foam with the lycra covers, and then one with the super thin plastic shell taped on at the edges -- they worked amazingly well so I figure mips is just icing. 
Plus the new one has more vents and is lighter, so double winning!


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

If I got a new helmet every time I saw a new dent in my helmet, I'd get a new helmet every couple of weeks.


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## jond63 (May 26, 2010)

It's not so much the dent, but the amount of impact I had that made me decide to replace it -- a good otb onto my head would hit in the exact same place...


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

"The foam inside of mountain bike helmets is not designed for repeated impacts. The foam inside the helmet will have compacted during the impact, thus absorbing the impact that would have otherwise been delivered to your head. If you did not replace the helmet and were to crash again, the foam would not be able to absorb the same force again. Meaning that it would instead be transferred to your head."

Reading about helmets on the internet, I found this...When I rode motorcycles any bumps or even DROPPING the helmet meant you probably wanted to replace it. The helmet is compromised after a hit with a tree, how much? Who knows, but how much is the safety of your head worth? Once it absorbs an impact, then its time for a new helmet.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

*Member has removed content due to fundamental disagreement with this site owner's views favoring expanded access for electric mountain bikes (eMtb) on multiuse singletrack in public lands.*


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

Its science...the foam compresses and stays compressed. Once compressed it cannot absorb the impact passing it on to your head. It amazes me when people refuse to accept facts when it disagrees with their OPINION.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Here's the Snell Foundation's "opinion" on the matter:


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## jond63 (May 26, 2010)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Here's the Snell Foundation's "opinion" on the matter:
> 
> View attachment 1940554


Yeah, I smacked my head hard enough for my vision to white flash and cause concern for neck compression -- I've got a new helmet now. One otb could put me right onto the same spot, decided not to chance it.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Here's another "opinion", from the Journal of Biomechanical Engineering:


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## jond63 (May 26, 2010)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Here's another "opinion", from the Journal of Biomechanical Engineering:
> View attachment 1940558


I agree on this one... eps is forever baby!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

FreuderLocks said:


> Whats the downside of a $50 helmet versus your ability to speak, breathe on your own or live? If $50 wins out over safety this is the wrong sport for you.


If I was buying $50 helmets, I would agree and throw it away.

Is $50 all that you think your head is worth?


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> If I was buying $50 helmets, I would agree and throw it away. Is $50 all that you think of your head?


Hehe, my gf was looking at me like I was crazy and I am not saying that I am not since there is ample proof of that when I dropped about $300 for a new helmet ff face that is though.


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## jond63 (May 26, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> If I was buying $50 helmets, I would agree and throw it away.
> 
> Is $50 all that you think your head is worth?


That's some interesting logic -- keeping an expensive helmet with potential damage rather than replacing it because spending the extra is worth it for your head...


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

jond63 said:


> That's some interesting logic -- keeping an expensive helmet with potential damage rather than replacing it because spending the extra is worth it for your head...


I never made that inference. My head is simply worth more than a cheap helmet.


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## jond63 (May 26, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> I never made that inference. My head is simply worth more than a cheap helmet.


What does that have to do with anything?


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Here's the Snell Foundation's "opinion" on the matter:
> 
> View attachment 1940554


Damn. I spike the helmet on every ride! Probably should cut that out....


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Here's the Snell Foundation's "opinion" on the matter:
> 
> View attachment 1940554





D. Inoobinati said:


> Here's another "opinion", from the Journal of Biomechanical Engineering:
> View attachment 1940558


Funny my post was about COMPRESSION of foam after impact. Not on drops or age. Again. Once the foam is compressed, the safety is compromised. Show me some science that says otherwise. Thanks for enlightening us about the safety of our helmets over time and when we dont crash in them.


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## Mithrandir (Nov 25, 2010)

Each to each's own perception of risk. A big impact might cause foam to pack without too much signs of it on the external shell.



https://blog.cyclestore.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/crashed_helmet-1200x800.jpg


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

Mithrandir said:


> Each to each's own perception of risk. A big impact might cause foam to pack without too much signs of it on the external shell.
> 
> 
> 
> https://blog.cyclestore.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/crashed_helmet-1200x800.jpg


I get this.


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

He was probably trying to post something like this&#8230;










cutaway of a crashed helmet. Foam looks perfect from the inside, helmet looks perfect from the outside. Only if you cut the helmet open can you see the compressed foam. So a "careful examination" would not reveal the helmet is unsafe.


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## Mithrandir (Nov 25, 2010)

Yup, that exact same picture


jrhone said:


> He was probably trying to post something like this&#8230;


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## FreuderLocks (May 20, 2010)

From what I understand they all meet the same minimum safety standards, the more expensive the helmet the lighter it is and the more ventilation, the better the retention system is.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

jrhone said:


> Reading about helmets on the internet, I found this...When I rode motorcycles any bumps or even DROPPING the helmet meant you probably wanted to replace it.


You posted this.

The Snell Foundation statement I referenced above pretty much calls it nonsense.


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

D. Inoobinati said:


> You posted this.
> 
> The Snell Foundation statement I referenced above pretty much calls it nonsense.


That has ZERO to do with mountain bike helmets and whether you should replace your helmet after a crash. You said it was nonsense and wasteful to replace a mountain bike helmet after an impact if it "looked ok" when EVERY scientific study (including ones by the Snell Foundation) says that once a crash has happened, the foam has compressed and its lost its absorption properties. Meaning the force of the impact is transferred to your head instead of being dissipated and absorbed by the foam.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

I think your reading comprehension has been compromised after your last hit to the head.


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

Typical keyboard warrior stuff....post nonsense, when you cant back up what you say with actual facts...start the personal attacks. Like I clearly stated before.

You said....



D. Inoobinati said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> Helmet got dinged. No cracks. Just a battle scar. Replace only when structurally compromised and keep your perfectly usable equipment out of the landfill.
> 
> Damn, the quantities of waste people in the mtb community espouse is out of control.





D. Inoobinati said:


> With that logic, I'd be replacing my bike every few months.


The original poster hit his head hard enough to almost black out and wonder if he had neck damage. Your advice... keep using the helmet. The damage is just a "battle scar".
My reading comprehension calls that bad advice....

Please post any evidence you can find by reputable sources that say that a bike helmet can be reused after a head impact.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

A riders helmet falls out of her sweaty hands when taking a mid-ride break under a tree.

Must she walk her bike back to the car, then get a new helmet before her next ride? Yes or no.


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## jrhone (May 23, 2011)

D. Inoobinati said:


> A riders helmet falls out of her sweaty hands when taking a mid-ride break under a tree.
> 
> Must she walk her bike back to the car, then get a new helmet before her next ride? Yes or no.


More relevant to this thread would be...

A rider is riding and hits his head on a tree and almost blacks out, visible impact on the outside of the helmet. Does he replace the helmet? Yes or No?

With all the info you have NOW...whats your answer?


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## dernst (Aug 7, 2015)

If a helmet is dented in the forest, and no one is online to argue about it, do I need to buy a new helmet?


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