# Spain or Scotland?



## dfg70 (Sep 9, 2008)

I know kind of random, but I have heard that there is some great riding in both countries...but haven't seen a lot of write ups. I am planning a trip this summer but really will only have about 10 days to take off. Any suggestions and locations? I would like to spend the least amount of time driving to places, but not adverse if there are certain areas that are highlights. Looking for places that are more x-country with some technical aspects and good single track for miles (or kilometers).
Thanks


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

Scotland has miles and miles and miles of outstanding riding. Not just the trail centers of the 7Stanes and Fort William, but also the footpaths and bridleways which have been bedded in for decades, or even centuries. With some careful planning - and visits to UK/Scotland based web forums! - you could easily fill your ten days with a good mix of trails, although you'll probably have to be prepared to get some driving miles in, too. Even the 7Stanes are pretty spread out, with over 100 miles between the most easterly and most westerly.

The biggest consideration, in my opinion, would be the weather. You are statistically more likely to have a drier time of it in Spain. Kind of obvious, I know, but Scottish rain is sort of special. When it gets going, it's as though it's raining up-over. It's incessant and can be so for days at a time. Heavy rain for days, no let-up. You have to be prepared to ride through it, or make alternative arragements, otherwise you'll throw your trip away. The little flies (midges, read the comments, too) are violent wee bastards, too. Usually they'll only swarm and bite when you're stood still, but they're often happy enough to follow you up a slow climb and chow down on you while you grind your way to the top.

A horrible picture it is that I paint of what is possibly the most beautiful country on the Earth, but lashing rain and evil flying bitey beasts are the type of thing which can make a trip memorable for the wrong reasons. Both can be endured or, in the case of the midges, (sometimes) repelled; but both have the potential to ruin your holiday.


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## weescott (May 7, 2006)

SteveUK said it all really. From Glentress in the South to Countess of Sutherland in the North, from Aberdeenshire in the east to Fort William in the West. In every corner of Scotland there is mountain biking to be had. There are no trespassing laws in Scotland, so with exception of MOD (Ministry Of Defence) land and Royal estates you can cycle anywhere you like.

If you lean towards trailcentre riding look at Peebles as a base. If you wan't something more rugged and/or natural look at Aviemore as a base.


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## dfg70 (Sep 9, 2008)

thanks for the info and the warning about the midges...they sound fierce from what I have read so far. I think I might shoot then for Spain in July...but still would like to check out Scotland...what might the riding be like in Sept/Oct or March/April. I am not too worried about rain...
thanks!


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## weescott (May 7, 2006)

September is the end of summer and you should get at least 2 weeks of good riding. October starts to get wet. In March you might get the tail end of Winter so some routes might be extremely muddy.

The Nevis red has to be at the top of your must do rides: 




The Gondola closes mid september though.

I would do Scotland in Summer and Spain in Sept/Oct. That way the weather will be less of an issue.


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## dfg70 (Sep 9, 2008)

just want to double check...Scotland in the summer with just a big can of deet and a rain jacket?


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

dfg70 said:


> just want to double check...Scotland in the summer with just a big can of deet and a rain jacket?


That's almost precisely how the Scottish tourist board puts it.


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## dfg70 (Sep 9, 2008)

So right now I am leaning a little more on Scotland but now I have been going back and forth on the pros and cons between joining a tour group or just renting a car buying a map (I will bring my bike). I will be going by myself which can lead to some challenges especially on routes that start out at one point and end up somewhere else. Being with a group would eliminate that problem, but then I am the mercy of the masses. So I am soliciting opinions and locations and any other advice one could offer....My riding preference is x-country smooth and flowy single track with some moderate technical aspects mixed in. I am fine with climbing (and even some pushing...depending on how to get down) since there is always a benefit once you reach the top).
Thanks again


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

Travelling in rural Scotland is made easier by the Royal Mail. Most of their post vans are actually minibuses which you would usually be able to put your bike in (unless other travellers got there ahead of you). This would make it easier to get from place to place if you decided to do the footpaths and bridleways rather then the resorts.

If you decide to to the resorts, then hiring a car is almsot certainly the best way. You'll be able to do all seven (although it's actually eight trails) of the 7Stanes without having to blast around between them. Glentress and Innerleithen are seperate routes but classed as one Stane (Tweed Valley) and can easily give you two or even three days of riding. Newcastleton, the closest Stane to England, is also a stones throw from Deadwater Trail at Kielder, Northumberland. Now that I think of it, it's possible that the two trails have recently been connected. There are also some great rides in NW England in the Lake District, all of which are possibly better connected and easier to link up than those is norther and western Scotland. They still suffer from higher than average rainfall, but are well worth the time.

For the Stanes in SW Scotland, we base ourselves in Dumfries and travel to a different trail center every day.

Are you on a budget or will you be putting yourself up in hotels? For budget accomodation, wooden huts (wigwams/pods, as they're called (link)) are quite common (Glentress, Dumfries and Mabie) and perfect for single travellers, especially if there's a bike in tow.

I can't tolerate large group rides, so perhaps somebody else could give you an insight into those possibilities.


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## Nsynk (Sep 30, 2008)

as a solo rider the stanes are no problem and your best bet. In Glentress and Innerleithan it is almost impossible not to get chatting to someone and end up riding with them. In the more remote Stanes you will probably be on your own but that in itself can add to the day.

Steveuk is correct, Newcastleton and Keilder are now linked. The link is from the top of the Lonesome pine trail and creates about a 50k addition. Keilder is well worth a visit the deadwater trail is excellent if you like technical and the lonesome pine less technical but still enjoyable and you will be able to say you rode in two countries.


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## dfg70 (Sep 9, 2008)

Well Scotland has certainly won out over Spain. The riding just in the 7Stanes looks friggen amazing. I can't wait to get over there. So now as I start my planning, I am trying to determine if it is best to stay in one location and then drive to the different areas. SteveUK mentioned hanging out in Dumfries and then hitting the different trails. I like that idea and since I am going to be renting a car figured that as long as I don't have to drive hours I am good with one location. So just want to double check to see if Dumfries is the place to be for a week (though how is the night life??). I do appreciate everyone's thoughts. It's good to hear from people who live over there and know the finer points.
Thanks again.
Doug


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

Glentress, Inners and Newcastleton are quite a distance from Dumfries (pron. Dum-freece, in case you were wondering) and would be something of a drive, at least by UK terms. Perhaps you're more accustomed to 2 or 3-hours drives, though? 

Anyway, if you're doing ten days, I'd suggest the following:

Stay in Innerleithen or Peebles and spend 2 or 3 days on the Tweed Valley Stanes. The Black at Glentress can be good for 4 or 5 hours, so that's a full day; then the Red route (hour-and-a-half to two hours) and Innerleithen (another two hours) could be another full day, or you could do each twice, or repeat ceratin sections, to give you a full day at each resort. 

An evening drive down towards Newcastleton, staying either there or down in Kielder, would set you up to do both Kielder and Newcastleton in one day. I haven't done the link trail, but Kielder has just opened another 7 mile route and is now easily good for four hours of fairly demanding riding. I'm doing the new route on Sunday, so I'll let you know if I think it's worth the time. For the best one-day adventure, I'd suggest doing Kielder's Deadwater trail and the Newcastleton Stane. Newcastleton is short, perhaps and hour, and not particularly demanding. It's a lovely ride through the woods, though, and has some great singletrack with a very natural feel to it. Deadwater is one-and-a-half to two hours with plenty of singletrack, uphill slogs, technical uphill and some pretty demanding (in a non FR/DH kind of way) descents.

Now would be the time to head for Dumfries. We stay at the Barnsoul campsite and rent one of the little wooden hut things, but if you want a few more home comforts, then there are plenty of small hotels or B&Bs in the area. There are also huts/pods at Mabie, as well as a very nice hotel/spa. This would also make an excellent place to base yourself while doing Mabie, Ae, Dalbeattie and Kirroughtree. Glentrool is little more than a huge pootle around forest roads and could easily be dropped; you won't be missing much. However! One place you really have to go is Drumlanrigg, just west of Ae. It's home to some of the most fantastic trails, winding their way through the grounds of Drumlanrigg Castle. It's probably one of the nicest trails I've been on; so natural that I almost feel as though I'm trespassing!! Seriously, don't miss it.


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## boristhespie (Nov 29, 2009)

You don't have to do roads in Scotland I know I live here. You can cross country offroad all the way if you plan well. it is real wilderness riding but with the added safety that you are not too far from help. 

It can be as technical as you want and you can wild camp too (free).

Don't be put off with stories of rain, yes it can rain but on the otherhand it could be dry all summer. it's a hell of a lot more comfortable than Sapin in the hight of Summer. No really unless you like scorching heat, avoid.

Midges are not "all that".

Make it Scotland and come for a pint.

Ps. Don't forget the east coast. Most tourists do but it can off lots too.


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## Nsynk (Sep 30, 2008)

Well all this talk of Scotland made me feel like getting up there and as the only Stane I have not done previously is Kirroughtree I got up at 5am this morning and drove up there.

Kirroughtree was great I left the car park at 9am and got back about 2am having done the red and the black and stopped to play on some sections. Some lovely lovely singletrack, bit different to the other stanes as it undulated rather than climbed out descended back but well worth a visit.

as usual with the stanes I set off alone and ended up riding with a local and another guy on a short holiday..


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## Nsynk (Sep 30, 2008)

SteveUK said:


> An evening drive down towards Newcastleton, staying either there or down in Kielder, would set you up to do both Kielder and Newcastleton in one day. I haven't done the link trail, but Kielder has just opened another 7 mile route and is now easily good for four hours of fairly demanding riding. I'm doing the new route on Sunday, so I'll let you know if I think it's worth the time. For the best one-day adventure, I'd suggest doing Kielder's Deadwater trail and the Newcastleton Stane. Newcastleton is short, perhaps and hour, and not particularly demanding. It's a lovely ride through the woods, though, and has some great singletrack with a very natural feel to it. Deadwater is one-and-a-half to two hours with plenty of singletrack, uphill slogs, technical uphill and some pretty demanding (in a non FR/DH kind of way) descents.
> 
> I would recommend doing the lonesome pines trail first, it is nowhere near as technical as deadwater (nor as fun). the link to Newcastleton is from the top of the boardwalk section, when you come to the t junction on the wood work turn left and keep climbing uphill on the boardwalk. I didn't go all the way to newcastleton myself but it was worth taking a look at the link and then retracing my steps. There is a nice DH after the boardwalk too, Takes you all the way back to the castle for a mid ride cuppa!


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

I've done the descent from the SkySpace a few times - including a cheeky one before it was supposed to be open! - and quite enjoyed it (for what it is). Is there much above that point?


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## Nsynk (Sep 30, 2008)

Steve yes about a mile of boardwalk, really wide and low, not at all technical.

The route drags you out along the lake on fireroad for a few miles, it is not exciting but its a good warm up. Once it crosses the end of the lake there is a lovely single track section that climbs up to a fire road.When I was last there the signposts said turn right here but they were building a new section that you got to by turning left, hopefully it is now open because the route I took was miles and miles of fire road climbing with little interest.Eventually after climbing a very rough Jeep track drag you reach the boardwalk but not before an excellent little switchback climb. The boardwalk itself climbs to a t junction, if you go left you go up to the link to Newcastleton, if you go right you descend on boardwalk to the start of the downhill. This section is great and spits you out at skyspace. The rest you know. There is also a new skills area by the car park which is great fun for a little play time. Enjoy.


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## seosamh (Mar 17, 2007)

dfg70 said:


> thanks for the info and the warning about the midges...they sound fierce from what I have read so far. I think I might shoot then for Spain in July...but still would like to check out Scotland...what might the riding be like in Sept/Oct or March/April. I am not too worried about rain...
> thanks!


march/april you'll get less midges. they don't get bad until mid may.

sept/oct can be mental for them


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## Nsynk (Sep 30, 2008)

dfg70, I saw this article about a mountain bike taxi sevice in Scotland thought you might be interested.

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/article/new-mountain-bike-taxi-service-24287


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

So I did the Lonesome Pine at Kielder on Sunday and was quite pleased with it. I can see why it's being billed as an introduction to Red-graded routes: not particularly challenging from a technical point of view, but some good hard (if short) climbs, nippy descents and very little camber on the corners, plus there seemed to be quite a few bends built tightly around pairs of trees. I'd gladly take that in as well as Deadwater; but if I was doing Newcastleton and one of the Kielder trails in a day, then I'd take Deadwater as it has a much greater tilt towards the technical. Hats off to the Reavers, though, for putting an excellent trails center together.


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## Nsynk (Sep 30, 2008)

It certainly adds to the overall riding but I am hoping they are going to build in a few more technical features to bring it up to the deadwater standard. Oh and get rid of some of the fire road climbing. especially the bit before the switchbacks that lead to the boardwalk.


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

In some ways it would make sense to leave it as it is and let it get more technical as the trails erode, as the typical Kielder sand/aggregate paths do, so that it retains its role as a relatively gentle introduction to the Red grade trails; although taking a leaf out of the Stanes' builders book and running technical features alongside the more sedate sections also has merit. I'd also like to see a few more berms placed around the bends. Giving people something to get up, and hook into, might go some way to eliminating the awful braking ruts which are already starting to appear, especially on the older sections on the last descents from the Skyspace.

I agree with the fire-road situation. It wasn't so bad first time, but it'd get pretty tedious after a couple of times around. Long fire-road sections are bad enough, but I actually got the sinking feeling when I round the bend onto that steep last section. 

I heard from fairly reliable source that the trail-builders have now had their budget for this year, and overall funding will be decreased now that the main trails are completed. This was to be expected, of course, but the impression I got is that they're going to be really counting the pennies in the future.


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## dfg70 (Sep 9, 2008)

Well I put in my leave vacation request...so now I can start working on getting my trip organized...just wanted to say that I appreciate the feedback and ideas on the various trails. As of now I believe I am going to stick with the 7stanes as it seems I can easily fill my week of riding with just the various trails. My thought was to divide my stay into two parts...a couple days in Innerleithen and then a couple days in Dumfries. I didn't want to travel around too much and I like the idea of having a base that I can come and go from...of course I am not married to any of this, so if this sounds like a bad idea I am certainly open to what others might share. 
Again appreciate the input.


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## seosamh (Mar 17, 2007)

dfg70 said:


> Well I put in my leave vacation request...so now I can start working on getting my trip organized...just wanted to say that I appreciate the feedback and ideas on the various trails. As of now I believe I am going to stick with the 7stanes as it seems I can easily fill my week of riding with just the various trails. My thought was to divide my stay into two parts...a couple days in Innerleithen and then a couple days in Dumfries. I didn't want to travel around too much and I like the idea of having a base that I can come and go from...of course I am not married to any of this, so if this sounds like a bad idea I am certainly open to what others might share.
> Again appreciate the input.


i'd just add one thing if you are looking for a night out through the week, head to glasgow or edinburgh if you do.. i wouldn't imagine the nightlife in inners or dumfries will be that great, then again you may find a pub you like in either and love it, suppose it depends what you like..


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## lynseyf (May 1, 2007)

just to throw another idea out there...
http://bike.nevisrange.co.uk/
Nevis Range has a lift served red run which is supposed to be pretty fun (i've never done it but friends have and say its pretty rechnical, there are vids on youtube as well) and the full-on downhill black run


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## Decklogic1 (Feb 11, 2010)

Dont forget that Scotland doesn't end at Edinburgh - remember to go north and hit the trails in the Highlands. Inverness is a good base with absolutely tons of riding to be done.

http://cycling.visitscotland.com/mountain_biking/

Check out the website above, it will start you off in your search for your perfect trails, accom, etc and if you want any more Northern Scotland detail drop me a PM and I'll help where I can.

Remember the Downhill and 4X World Cup in Ft William 5/6th June 2010.

All the best  
Al.


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## MondayMuppet_Statler (May 11, 2009)

Hey Doug,
As most have already said we have a lot to offer and love our own little areas of Scotland!!
Not sure if you have been and gone but one thing you may not think of but is quite obvious is to speak with the local bike shops.
In the Aberdeenshire area we have some good guys behind the counters who know the trails well but also know the folk who ride them. (Ballater Bikes, Bike Bothy, Square Wheels... to name a few)
Worth contacting them for some advice as I know a few would more than likely arrange to ride with you or at least put you in touch with some local riders who happen to be about that week.
All the best and enjoy your stay.

PS when in the bike shop you will see something called "Avon Skin So Soft" buy it and use it.


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

Great news!! From here...

*Billions of midges freeze to death.*

_At least one benefit has resulted from the worst winter to grip the Highlands in decades. Billions of midges have frozen to death hibernating in the ground, according to the world's leading expert on the biting beastie.

The news will be greeted with joy by the country's tourist operators. The Scottish tourism industry is estimated to lose about £300 million a year in badly bitten vistors who swear never to return after being breakfasted upon by the voracious and swarming insects.

This winter, however, when at places such as at Altnaharra, in Sutherland - a midge hot spot - temperatures have plunged to as low as -22.3C, "billions" of the blood-sucking insects have frozen to death in the ground, according to Alison Blackwell, of Edinburgh University's Centre for Tropical Veterinary Medicine, who is a leading authority on the Highland midge.

Indeed, so comprehensive is the big freeze that it is believed that the coming summer may be one of the best, midge-quiet Scottish summers on record. Better still, the harsh winter has followed last year's record low recordings at the 15 official midge traps around the country. The cool spring of 2009, followed by a spell of hot summer weather and backed-up by strong winds at key hatching times helped to beat down numbers of the biting insect._

_Public interest in the midge - and ultimately in its demise or avoidance - is high. Last year was the first time a midge forecast had been been televised and it attracted an average of 1.02 million viewers on STV - a 10 per cent increase on usual viewing figures for that time.

The midge forecast is to be revived this year, beginning at the end of May - just before the insect produces the season's first hatch.

Dr Blackwell said the hard winter had killed off many populations of the Highland midge - Culicoides impunctatus - because the extreme cold penetrates deeper into the soil. Midges typically hibernate at a depth of between 2cm and 5cm below the surface of the ground.

Previous winters have been mild, but this year's has seen wide areas of midge-infested ground frozen since before Christmas.

"It's a bad winter for the midges - many billions will have died," said Dr Blackwell. "They will have frozen to death in the ground.

"This weather will have an important impact on the summer population. I know a lot of people will be delighted that so many midges have died but we don't want them to be killed off completely as it would upset the eco-system.

"We don't want them all to disappear. People should not get too excited - insects survived the last Ice Age and were around long before humans.

"Midges are quite susceptible to the weather and their survival will go down in the wrong conditions for them. But they will not go away forever.

"Midges like warm and wet weather. Midges also need a blood meal within a week or they will not survive.

"But midges are very resilient. They will sit there in the ground waiting days for their meal."

But this year may prove nothing more than a welcome respite in a war that humans seemingly cannot win.

"To get rid of them you would have to change Scotland's landscape - and that is not going to happen. I am afraid they are here to stay."_


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