# Help with flat pedal foot pain



## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

I'm really struggling with arch pain when descending especially over rough chattery features, like cobblestones or Rock gardens. 

I've tried a few different things but seems nothing I do at the moment really helps.

Pain sets in pretty quickly, like after a couple of minutes and dissipates within seconds of I take weight of the foot ... Mainly my left foot.

I had been using g8 insoles with Bontrager flatlines and specialised 2fo roost pretty successfully. Both wore out and i replaced the shoes but I can't seem to get a pair that works.

I tried
Nw clan
Freerider Pro
Impact Pro
2fo dh

I've also tried different pedals and different insoles. Nothing has stopped the problem, not even going back to the specialised shoes.

Does anyone have any suggestion with dealing with this? Common wisdom would suggest 'use stiffer shoes' but all those shoes I'm using are considered in the stiffer end of the scale. Can a shoe be too stiff and aggregate this?


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## dan l (Oct 16, 2015)

If it happens descending only, that may be a clue. Make sure you are sinking your heels and absorbing the impacts by hinging at the ankles.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

dan l said:


> If it happens descending only, that may be a clue. Make sure you are sinking your heels and absorbing the impacts by hinging at the ankles.


Yeah it's descending only. I can pedal for a longer than I care to lol.

I thought the heels weren't sunk in enough either but I've been pretty conscious of dipping them the last few rides and no difference. It's also my lead foot that suffers the most ... i.e. the more sunk of the two feet.

With the 5.10s I thought maybe the shape was the problem (I have wide feet) and the Freerider pros did not have a great fit for me, the impact pros felt like they fit nicely though. I really thought the 2fo dh would work since the 2fo roost I had no issues with ... but here I am.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Perhaps it's time to consider a visit to a doctor for some advice.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

Cleared2land said:


> Perhaps it's time to consider a visit to a doctor for some advice.


Funny you should mention that, Just booked in a visit to a Podiatrist but it's about a month away. The guy is also a MTBer and a fitter so I thought he should know what I'm talking about (descending out of the saddle over gnar).

I was just wondering if anyone else has had an issue with flat pedal shoes being too stiff. Seems the shoes that worked for me had more flexible soles.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

I probably should mention I'm riding a hardtail, so the rear shows me no forgiveness.


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## Zeroselect (Aug 12, 2021)

Have you tried insole that match the arch of your foot? Not sure whether you flat-footed or have a high arch?


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

Zeroselect said:


> Have you tried insole that match the arch of your foot? Not sure whether you flat-footed or have a high arch?


Yeah I tried the insoles I was using in my previous pairs of shoes ... both the flatlines and the 2fo roost. I've tried some others. I'd say that with the stiffer soles the insoles actually made the problem worse, so not sure what's going on there.

I almost does seem to correlate to sole stiffness

Flatlines moderate stiffness = ok
RC powerline moderate stiffness = ok
2FO roost moderate-high stiffness = ok

Clan, 2fo DH, freerider pro, impact pro stiff = pain

Unfortunately I can't get the flatlines or 2fo roost at the moment everyone is out of stock. Thinking of trying the regular freerider or maybe shimano gr7 ... My foot is wide so many shoes just don't fit.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

I was gonna recommend stiffness index 10 or higher

I have high arches and unless I use absolutely no flex soles, my feet will end up
hurting. using stiffness index 13 now, carbon soles. No flex whatsoever, can ride
all day 12hrs+, or hard intervals, or anything, the last thing complaining is my feet. Soooo nice.

if I start jogging program, say 3 miles every other day,
inevitably by feet will give out in a month and I am limping,
so, that's kinda the feet I have.

the bike and hard soles allows me to punish myself
and the only thing I feel is when swapping to winter boots for riding, I have
about 3 or 4 rides of discomfort adapting to the different shoe. but after that, bliss
winter boots stiffness index 10

I only use specialized shoes...the way they make them fits my feets very
well....as with anything clothing related, YMMV...everyone has some freaky shape
to a body part and won't fit into everything


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

While you're waiting for your appointment how about trying some non-mtb shoes? If you have trailrunners or other running shoes that are comfortable, try them. If your pedals have longer sharper pins you'll want to change to shorter rounded or stubby pins if those shoes work.
I use running shoes with an open tread pattern from Adidas with the Boost midsole. It's not a removal component. 
The material dampens the vibration transmission from rocky trail segments. Before these the soles of my feet would be numb after a couple hours of riding hardtail.
Just one foot showing pain could also be a size issue. Both feet can be different sizes. Feet can change. You may now need the next size up.


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

As mentioned above- consider some new insoles?

Specialized Body Geometry did wonders for me in my old 510 freeriders, cured the mid arch pain I had while going downhill


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

What pedals have you tried and what size are your feet?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jeremy3220 said:


> What pedals have you tried and what size are your feet?


This was going to be a major point I was going to make.

I had foot pain/cramping on chattery descents and tracked it down to a combination of shoe flex and pedal support. Stiffer shoes and bigger pedals that supported my shoes better did a great job of addressing those problems. I wear a size 12, and use DMR Vault pedals. OG Freeriders were too flexy for me (and my previous pedals weren't wide enough, so my shoes curled around the outside edge of the pedal), so I replaced the shoes with Freerider Contacts (a bit stiffer) when I changed pedals to the Vaults. I recently wore out the Contacts, and just replaced them with Freerider Pros.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Might want to try https://pedalinginnovations.com/


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## Spinster (Apr 8, 2008)

Do you think it could be plantar fasciatis? Had that for a few months last year and it was rather painful, right in the arch. I had to lay low for a couple weeks for it to go away, which wasn't going to happen until winter set in and the trails were buried in snow.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

eshew said:


> Might want to try https://pedalinginnovations.com/


For me, those are too narrow and much longer than necessary to get the stability and support I need. There's finally now an XL version which has the width I need, but the length grows to truly obscene.

Plus, I think bike james is full of himself.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

ehfour said:


> As mentioned above- consider some new insoles?
> 
> Specialized Body Geometry did wonders for me in my old 510 freeriders, cured the mid arch pain I had while going downhill


I've tried a set of Spec BG insoles in the green and blue, a set of Bontrager insoles in the yellow and a set of g8 insoles. All present the same problems in the same shoes. In the more flexible shoes they seemed to work well, thus why I'm thinking maybe the insoles aren't playing well with the stiffness of the shoe?


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

Harold said:


> This was going to be a major point I was going to make.
> 
> I had foot pain/cramping on chattery descents and tracked it down to a combination of shoe flex and pedal support. Stiffer shoes and bigger pedals that supported my shoes better did a great job of addressing those problems. I wear a size 12, and use DMR Vault pedals. OG Freeriders were too flexy for me (and my previous pedals weren't wide enough, so my shoes curled around the outside edge of the pedal), so I replaced the shoes with Freerider Contacts (a bit stiffer) when I changed pedals to the Vaults. I recently wore out the Contacts, and just replaced them with Freerider Pros.


Yeah I thought the same thing stiffer = more support but how much stiffer can you get than an impact pro? The Clan was like a plank of wood also, unbendable. The stiffer the shoe the worse it seems to get. The flatline and 2fo roost are quite flexy by comparison and didn't seem to have the same problem.

I've used Stamp 1, One Up and DMR V11 pedals ... same problem on all 3.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

eshew said:


> Might want to try https://pedalinginnovations.com/


Looked into them, unavailable locally unfortunately.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

Spinster said:


> Do you think it could be plantar fasciatis? Had that for a few months last year and it was rather painful, right in the arch. I had to lay low for a couple weeks for it to go away, which wasn't going to happen until winter set in and the trails were buried in snow.


I'm not sure, I don't have any issues pedaling or off the bike. From what I'm reading PF manifests off the bike also does it not?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Where does your foot hurt? Arch, forefoot., heel? How old are you?

So too much of anything is a bad, stiffer is not always better, arch support is not always better.

If the pain was in both feet, I'd be more inclined to think it was a common issue, ie not enough support or too much support, but only one foot and only when loaded dynamically, that speaks to a stress fractured or something tendon/ligament related.

I'd go see an orthopedist or a pediatrist.

In the meantime, stop running if you run, slow down on the descents, consider leading with alternating feet AND get a full suspension bike for that type of riding.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

crembz said:


> I'm not sure, I don't have any issues pedaling or off the bike. From what I'm reading PF manifests off the bike also does it not?


Mostly, for me every time I've had it (generally when changing running shoes), it was most noticeable when first getting out of bed in the morning. 
What Ben said.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

eb1888 said:


> While you're waiting for your appointment how about trying some non-mtb shoes? If you have trailrunners or other running shoes that are comfortable, try them. If your pedals have longer sharper pins you'll want to change to shorter rounded or stubby pins if those shoes work.
> I use running shoes with an open tread pattern from Adidas with the Boost midsole. It's not a removal component.
> The material dampens the vibration transmission from rocky trail segments. Before these the soles of my feet would be numb after a couple hours of riding hardtail.
> Just one foot showing pain could also be a size issue. Both feet can be different sizes. Feet can change. You may now need the next size up.


One foot shows pain, my front foot, however the other foot isn't 100% happy either. I'd suspect sizing might be an issue but 3 different pairs of shoes with different shapes/sizes kinda rules it out. I have wide feet but they're not massively wide.

Hadn't thought of trying non-mtb shoes though, are you suggesting something like this adidas Terrex Agravic Ultra Trail Running Shoes - Black | adidas Australia ? How do they grip? You might be onto something, because the softer mtb shoes I tried with an insole seemed to work better than the stiffer burlier shoes.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

Nurse Ben said:


> Where does your foot hurt? Arch, forefoot., heel? How old are you?
> 
> So too much of anything is a bad, stiffer is not always better, arch support is not always better.
> 
> ...


The foot hurts through the midfoot, starting at the arch and stretching across to the outside of the foot. I'm 39 and wear a size 9. The pain manifests in the left foot mainly, my leading foot, but there is a level of discomfort in the other foot, just not to the point of being unbearable. I've tried leading with the other foot but I'm hopeless riding like that hahahaha. More flexible shoes seem to feel better, not sure where it's the flex or the absorption of chatter or how they mesh with my insoles.

People do look at me and think I'm nuts sending a hardtail down a black descent, but I've been doing it since forever without much of a problem. It's not an insane trail though (I'd consider it more of a blue than a black), here's footage from another rider (589) Lysterfield - CGT Descent - YouTube, I'm hitting things a fair bit faster. You'll notice short sections of cobbles and rocks near and around the switchbacks, they really trigger the problem in my foot. By the last 2-3 switchbacks of the first descent my foot is cooked and I have to really reel it in.

Hopefully the podiatrist later this month can help shed some clarity.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

dysfunction said:


> Mostly, for me every time I've had it (generally when changing running shoes), it was most noticeable when first getting out of bed in the morning.
> What Ben said.


Yeah I have 0 problems off the bike, and the moment I lift weight off the foot, e.g. sit and pedal, The pain disappears almost instantly.


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## dan l (Oct 16, 2015)

crembz said:


> I probably should mention I'm riding a hardtail, so the rear shows me no forgiveness.


What is your age? I'm 40 and have both a fs and a hardtail. My ankles are hurting after a day on the hardtail. Might be time to concede and join the dark side? For your body's sake? May the fourth inch of travel be with you.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I had foot pain on the Freeride due to the shoe being too flexible. Went to the Shimano GR9 and it solved the problem. But it seems you've used some stiffer soled shoes, like the Freeride Pro, so I don't know if that would help.


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

Try a cheap clipless shoe without a cleat… see what happens as the soles are basically rigid. I ride both types of pedals/shoes and my flats always kill my feet, so they only go on for jump heavy riding. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Kinda sounds like you might have a bone spur. They'll find out when they take an x-ray.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I have the EXACT same problem and have been trying lately to get it fixed. 40yrs old, high arch...a semi-wide foot. My lead foot hurts like hell through my arch but my other foot also hurts too but not as bad. I get a ton of this pain when snowboarding as well and spending too much time on my toe-side (where my arch is flexed). I freaking hate it...its such BS and makes me a worse rider as I'm actively having to find spot to sit for a moment just to get a little relief off the pedals.

Recently I just tried a very custom insole that was built around my feet by a pro boot fitter. It was a fairly involved process and not cheap. It helped some but not enough. I'm on Freerider Pro shoes, so a stiffer shoe than my old freeriders. Using some big Kona Wah Wah 2 pedals on a full suspension bike. I'm considering trying the new insoles with the older, flexible shoes...doubt that will help at all.

I've considered the Pedal Innovations Catalyst pedals...but I dunno. I'm getting a bit desperate to try anything at this point. Please let me know if you find some solution.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

svinyard said:


> I have the EXACT same problem and have been trying lately to get it fixed. 40yrs old, high arch...a semi-wide foot. My lead foot hurts like hell through my arch but my other foot also hurts too but not as bad. I get a ton of this pain when snowboarding as well and spending too much time on my toe-side (where my arch is flexed). I freaking hate it...its such BS and makes me a worse rider as I'm actively having to find spot to sit for a moment just to get a little relief off the pedals.
> 
> Recently I just tried a very custom insole that was built around my feet by a pro boot fitter. It was a fairly involved process and not cheap. It helped some but not enough. I'm on Freerider Pro shoes, so a stiffer shoe than my old freeriders. Using some big Kona Wah Wah 2 pedals on a full suspension bike. I'm considering trying the new insoles with the older, flexible shoes...doubt that will help at all.
> 
> I've considered the Pedal Innovations Catalyst pedals...but I dunno. I'm getting a bit desperate to try anything at this point. Please let me know if you find some solution.


I feel your pain quite literally. It sucks to earn a descent only to have to pull up and rest half way down due to foot pain!

I'm not sure if this has 'developed' over time in my case or whether it is in fact the stiffer shoes. I've managed to find a pair of 2fo roost shoes which I rode for 6 months with no issue, so hopefully that solves it. Also thinking maybe I don't need as much support on the stiffer sole ... might try removing the insoles and see what happens.

Did moving from freerider to freerider pro change any of your symptoms?


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

crembz said:


> The foot hurts through the midfoot, starting at the arch and stretching across to the outside of the foot. I'm 39 and wear a size 9. The pain manifests in the left foot mainly, my leading foot, but there is a level of discomfort in the other foot, just not to the point of being unbearable. I've tried leading with the other foot but I'm hopeless riding like that hahahaha. More flexible shoes seem to feel better, not sure where it's the flex or the absorption of chatter or how they mesh with my insoles.
> 
> People do look at me and think I'm nuts sending a hardtail down a black descent, but I've been doing it since forever without much of a problem. It's not an insane trail though (I'd consider it more of a blue than a black), here's footage from another rider (589) Lysterfield - CGT Descent - YouTube, I'm hitting things a fair bit faster. You'll notice short sections of cobbles and rocks near and around the switchbacks, they really trigger the problem in my foot. By the last 2-3 switchbacks of the first descent my foot is cooked and I have to really reel it in.
> 
> Hopefully the podiatrist later this month can help shed some clarity.


No way there should be that much pain on that mostly smooth trail. I watched a clearer vid of CGT and agree that's totally doable on a hardtail.

I get the feeling there may some injury that just needs time to heal if it flares up that quick or like someone else mentioned, something like a bone spur. Seeing a doc is my recommendation rather than semi-random shoe/pedal experimentation and continuing to aggravate the foot to hopefully avoid turning it into a chronic issue. I'd find some smoother terrain or other activity that doesn't cause the pain to flare up in the meantime to maintain fitness/sanity.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

It does sound like there's some sort of injury going on. Likely in the repetitive stress side of things. That visit to the podiatrist should be enlightening (hopefully), but a sports medicine doc might also be relevant.

I was doing some reading recently and I think I may have had a mild Lisfranc injury to both of my feet back when I was playing soccer in high school. The testing and treatment I received back then did not match what seems to be the current recommendation. Not sure if that's because the diagnosis was missed or if treatment has improved over the years or what (my doctors at the time looked for broken bones, found none, and then basically said, "meh, it's a soft tissue injury, just rest it"). Treatment for mild cases now seems to be a more aggressive approach to resting the feet, and in more severe cases, surgery. My point is that after reading about it, I could see this injury cropping up for some mountain bikers, too.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

Harold said:


> It does sound like there's some sort of injury going on. Likely in the repetitive stress side of things. That visit to the podiatrist should be enlightening (hopefully), but a sports medicine doc might also be relevant.
> 
> I was doing some reading recently and I think I may have had a mild Lisfranc injury to both of my feet back when I was playing soccer in high school. The testing and treatment I received back then did not match what seems to be the current recommendation. Not sure if that's because the diagnosis was missed or if treatment has improved over the years or what (my doctors at the time looked for broken bones, found none, and then basically said, "meh, it's a soft tissue injury, just rest it"). Treatment for mild cases now seems to be a more aggressive approach to resting the feet, and in more severe cases, surgery. My point is that after reading about it, I could see this injury cropping up for some mountain bikers, too.


I really hope that is not what's going on but a foot injury is possible I suppose. I haven't ridden anything I would think could cause a foot injury since covid started.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

I have wide feet and high arches with a few minor issues from years of work boots and outdoor pursuits .

I use Shimano XT flat pedals in large and actually a pair of trail run shoes with a wide toe box. I add insoles if I'm riding more demanding downhill type terrain. Also on a hardtail. I've never liked any of the mtn bike marketed shoes. Large pedals have seemed to make the biggest difference, and I sort of think the more flexible sole helps me wrap my foot to the pedals. Never cleats on mtn bike terrain for me either.


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## Newbie10 (Jul 14, 2014)

Harold said:


> For me, those are too narrow and much longer than necessary to get the stability and support I need. There's finally now an XL version which has the width I need, but the length grows to truly obscene.
> 
> Plus, I think bike james is full of himself.


I just got a pair of the pedaling innovation pedals (went on a ride with a group of guys that was raving about them and I needed new pedals anyway so thought I would give a go). they really do give your foot a lot of support. you feel like you are standing on a much more solid platform. I would not say in general that they are "game changers" or anything like that and if you were not having problems, would not bother. but, might be the ticket for you.....


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I'm positive mine isn't an injury but just my arch collapsing or being pulled apart, whatever you can call it. It didn't use to happen but as I've hit 40 its now a significant issue. I think the OP is having the same thing.

Using a running show is interesting, tho many running shoes aren't very supportive. Nike makes a "Structure" shoe that I have that's really great and comfortable, I'll give that a try and see if it makes a difference.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Have you tried changing your foot position on the pedals to a more mid foot position?

I get some foot pain kind of like what you are describing on really long descents (8min +), and when I switch to a more mid foot position in the pedals that helps a fair bit.

I’m personally thinking most of my issue is the soft freeriders ive got (which for sure isn’t your issue). But was curious if you had tried alternate foot positions at all.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I'm going to try this sometime soon. I'm guessing it'll be a bit weird to get used too tho. My wah wah 2 pedals are about 120mm long so maybe that'll help.



ocnLogan said:


> Have you tried changing your foot position on the pedals to a more mid foot position?
> 
> I get some foot pain kind of like what you are describing on really long descents (8min +), and when I switch to a more mid foot position in the pedals that helps a fair bit.
> 
> I'm personally thinking most of my issue is the soft freeriders ive got (which for sure isn't your issue). But was curious if you had tried alternate foot positions at all.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Newbie10 said:


> I just got a pair of the pedaling innovation pedals (went on a ride with a group of guys that was raving about them and I needed new pedals anyway so thought I would give a go). they really do give your foot a lot of support. you feel like you are standing on a much more solid platform. I would not say in general that they are "game changers" or anything like that and if you were not having problems, would not bother. but, might be the ticket for you.....


DMR Vaults are plenty long for me. They give me the width I need without too much extra length. I was thinking about this in a bit more detail on my ride this morning, and the more I thought about it, the more it occurred to me that the pedaling innovations pedals just plain won't work for me. If I use an aggressive midfoot placement (on any pedals) the way BJ (hehe) says in his manifesto, my relatively inflexible ankles don't let me drop my heels sufficiently for technical terrain. I don't ride with the ball of my foot on the spindle, but I also don't do what BJ says.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

ocnLogan said:


> Have you tried changing your foot position on the pedals to a more mid foot position?
> 
> I get some foot pain kind of like what you are describing on really long descents (8min +), and when I switch to a more mid foot position in the pedals that helps a fair bit.
> 
> I'm personally thinking most of my issue is the soft freeriders ive got (which for sure isn't your issue). But was curious if you had tried alternate foot positions at all.


Yeah I ride with a midfoot position already, although I might start trying to move the other way. Also I find that the further back the spindle the harder it is to get the heels down.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Personally I think focusing on heels down is overrated. It's a good technique when you need it but you should rarely have to intentionally drop them. A slight drop of the front heel is usually about all you need.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

I tried again today by removing inserts ... the pain took longer to manifest but was still there. The lack of inserts however causes other issues further up the leg. 

I'm wondering ... because the pain seems to come on the minute I hit the cobbled parts of the trail, small chattery hits through the bike. Being a hardtail, 29x2.35 and carbon rims ... whether an increase in compliance might help ... alu rims ... 27.5x2.8 maybe?


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

That would probably help. Inserts maybe another option.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

So, I persisted with a free things including different pedals and different bikes (full sus) and tyre pressure etc. Nothing has worked.

I went to two podiatrists, both scratching their heads. But I found out I have relatively flat feet and relatively wide feet with my left being externally rotated and functionally shorter than the right. They both arrived at the same conclusion of 'insoles'. They both ruled out plantar fasciitis and both commented on inflexible calves.

Unfortunately the insoles they have me haven't helped at all. One of the podiatrists believes my feet muscles are simply bruised from the repeated impacts. So ... What now lol


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

You might talk to a physical therapist and see if they might be able to help. 

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I also vote a bike specific PT. It sucks (i.e. is boring) but addressing your weaknesss (like inflexibile calves) may help. A PT can put you on a plan that you may eventually see improvements from.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I got some full custom insoles made recently. They have definitely helped, tho not entirely fixed the problem. I'm trying flexible 510's vs the Freerider pros. Not sure yet which afford me more comfort but perhaps the Pros do. I'd agree that PT'ing my feet is likely the next move. The guy building my insoles gave me some exercises to do that help strengthen my high arch. One was to stand on carpet and repeatedly grab the carpet with my toes (works the arch). the other was to get a band around my ankles and repeatedly roll my ankles/feet outward (again working the arch). Apparently this problem isn't new to the snow sports world.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

svinyard said:


> I got some full custom insoles made recently. They have definitely helped, tho not entirely fixed the problem. I'm trying flexible 510's vs the Freerider pros. Not sure yet which afford me more comfort but perhaps the Pros do. I'd agree that PT'ing my feet is likely the next move. The guy building my insoles gave me some exercises to do that help strengthen my high arch. One was to stand on carpet and repeatedly grab the carpet with my toes (works the arch). the other was to get a band around my ankles and repeatedly roll my ankles/feet outward (again working the arch). Apparently this problem isn't new to the snow sports world.


I've been given the same exercises and stretching actually and I'm also playing with flexy vs stiff shoes. I might look into a PT ... all I want to do is shred dammit .


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## Oogie (Jun 9, 2021)

cassieno said:


> I also vote a bike specific PT. It sucks (i.e. is boring) but addressing your weaknesss (like inflexibile calves) may help. A PT can put you on a plan that you may eventually see improvements from.


Stretching and foam rolling remedied painful feet and knees. I switched from vans to 5.10 shoes and that helped on short rides, but I would still get the foot pain on longer rides. Around my knees would feel tight for a couple days after bigger rides. being diligent and stretching and rolling helped a ton.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

You mention having wide feet. Are you riding with your feet overhanging the outside of the pedals? Kona Wah Wah 2 are the widest pedals I can find. Maybe even a wider Q-factor would help?


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

bcriverjunky said:


> You mention having wide feet. Are you riding with your feet overhanging the outside of the pedals? Kona Wah Wah 2 are the widest pedals I can find. Maybe even a wider Q-factor would help?


Yes I do and I'm significantly externally rotated as well. I've tried using the stamp large pedals as well as a variety of smaller ones ... they've all had similar issue with my feet though.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Maybe try some pedal extenders. I don't know just throwing ideas out there.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

crembz said:


> Yes I do and I'm significantly externally rotated as well. I've tried using the stamp large pedals as well as a variety of smaller ones ... they've all had similar issue with my feet though.


For me there is definitely foot pain associated with pedals that have a platform that is too big. The large Stamp being the worst. On a whim I bought a pair of Deity Deftrap pedals last winter and they’ve been great for all day back country pedal rides or a full day at the bike park on my enduro bike.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

bcriverjunky said:


> Maybe try some pedal extenders. I don't know just throwing ideas out there.
> View attachment 1950458


I've got some which I used with clipless pedals once. Never tried with flat pedals but maybe I'll try them out ... nothing to loose at this point I guess.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

Completely at a loss ... Tried using the spindle spacers ... no difference, with or without insoles still painful. I'd almost say it's better without insoles. 

I'm thinking of trying clipless ... I've got no more idea atm.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

I get some foot pain decending over chunk on my hardtail but not on my full suspension bike. I was going to suggest you try a full suspension bike but it looks like you already did. One thing that helps me on the hardtail is to switch lead feet during the decent. Actually that helps a ton with the pain and I think it is a good skills exercise anyway.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

noosa2 said:


> I get some foot pain decending over chunk on my hardtail but not on my full suspension bike. I was going to suggest you try a full suspension bike but it looks like you already did. One thing that helps me on the hardtail is to switch lead feet during the decent. Actually that helps a ton with the pain and I think it is a good skills exercise anyway.


That seems to be the only thing that really helps extend the time I have before the pain stops me. I am completely talentless riding the other way around though 😬


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