# 2015 Lights Shootout.



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Here is the line-up. Any questions? 


LightPriceClaimed Lumen Blackburn Central 100$35100Blackburn Central Front$119500Bontrager Ion 700$100700CatEye Volt 100$35100CatEye Volt 1200$2001200CatEye Volt 700$120700DiNotte XML-3$2291600DiNotte XML-4$2592100Exposure Lights Diablo MK6$3001300Exposure Lights Equinox$4792000Fenix BC30$1601800Gloworm X1$190950Gloworm X2$2551500Gloworm XS$3502200Jet Lites F-3$1891000Knog Blinder 1.7$65170Knog Blinder 5.5$120550Knog Qudos$119400Knog Road 2$80200Knog Road 3$95300Lezyne Deca Drive$150900Lezyne Mega Drive$2001400Lezyne Power Drive$100600Lezyne Super Drive$120700Lezyne Zecto Auto$5020Light & Motion Seca 2000 Race$5002000Light & Motion Taz 1200$2401000Light & Motion Taz 1400$3001400Light & Motion Urban 500$180800Lupine Betty R10 4500$1,1754500Lupine NEO 2$245700Lupine Piko 4 1200$3351200Lupine Wilma 7 2800$5952800NiteRider Lumina 400$68400NiteRider Lumina 750$120750NiteRider Pro 2200$4002200Princeton Tec Push$50165Serfas Thunderbolt$4090Serfas TSL-1200$2801200Serfas TSL-T1000$2001000Serfas USL-155$40155Serfas USL-305$50305Serfas USL-505$80505Sigma Buster 200$45200Torcano Industries Orb$6570TrailLED DS$5503000


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

tail lights need love too


LightPriceClaimed Lumen Lupine Rotlicht$125160Serfas Thunderbolt Red tail light$40NiteRider Solas$40Sigma Mono Tail Light$35Blackburn Central 20 Rear$3520Cateye RapidX$40Princeton Tec $30


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## lesoudeur (Nov 3, 2005)

*Tailight*

Magicshine MJ-818 tail light, though it has been out a while, is popular and very available so worth including in test.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Magicshine has not responded to any of my inquiries.

Cygolite still refuses to send any lights to us. They do not allow/participate in any independent testing or reviews.

fc


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Only question is how soon??? Very eager to see this crop of latest lights. Glad to see Dinotte back in the lineup too. THANK YOU!


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## ChristianCoté (Jul 13, 2014)

How do you choose which lights to use of a particular line when there are a lot of minor variants? Why the Light & Motion Urban 500 and not the Light & Motion Urban 800 FS, for example? Or is it just up to the manufacturers?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

ChristianCoté said:


> How do you choose which lights to use of a particular line when there are a lot of minor variants? Why the Light & Motion Urban 500 and not the Light & Motion Urban 800 FS, for example? Or is it just up to the manufacturers?


I ask for one two new ones that I'm interested in. Then they'll usually throw one in that they want to promote or get reviewed.

fc


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Glad to see that DiNotte decided to be included. Also, the Serfas TL60 rear light should be included as well as it is very bright and great bang for the buck. Not to mention that the Performance Axiom ( clone version of the TL60) is just as bright and a bit cheaper.

Looks like a good line-up for 2015. I look forward to it. :thumbsup:

( Edit: When you get done reviewing the new Lupine Wilma you can send it my way and I'll tell you what I think of it.... )


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## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

Just ordered an Exposure Diablo MK6... glad to see it will be reviewed. I currently run a Hope R4, and Trail LED Darkstar, both a few years old. Stoked on the self-contained light concept moving forward.


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## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

I don't see much change from last year's batch of lights. Most of the ones that are on this list that were reviewed last year seems to be priced about the same and producing about the same amount of lumens.

The growth in output and options were incredible the last 3 years. But I guess the ride is over for now. The changes now seems incremental.


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## StiHacka (Feb 2, 2012)

No plans for Trailled XXX, the updated version with new LEDs?


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Where is gemini?? Also I would like to see A LOT more rear light, preferably really good ones with high lumens. and maybe vids of their flashpatterns.

Also this time I would like to see some real "user" review of the lights. For example how is the switch? mushy or distinct, is it hard to for example switch from the lowest setting to the highest in a high stress situation? 

About the mounts, we all know pretty much all mounts suck ass. So it would be nice if you actually tested if the light stays put or not heightwise when in actual use. Also your personal opinions of the mounts (and interfaces with the light) would be nice. Most suck, some don't

Also when youre doing the tunnel shots, with a rubber band put a laser pointer on each light that is on the "bore axis" and aim them all at the exact same point, then take the pics. AND maybe pics at 50% or medium setting too... 

It would be nice if you put more effort into it than just listing the specs and the measured lumens, and taking pics and stating the obvious. Like take each light out for a spin for like half an hour or so, or at least 15 minutes, cycle the modes, jump some curbs, remove it and put it back on, remove and put the mount back on, charge it and so on.. this is whats really important imo, not the other ****. Any non apparant weakness will most likely show up in that time, I mean will this cable or that switch most likely die really quick. You know what i mean?? 

Also with lights with removable battery caps like all "flashlight type" lights, it would be nice if you took some pics of when the light is in pieces with the lid/cap removed, so we can see how its constructed. Specifically the rear cap/lid innards would be nice.

Also with lights that have replaceable batteries it would be nice to know if they will or will not crush/deform protected cells since these are longer than non protected. My xera flashlight came with a protected cell and after a while it developed a problem with the rear switch, so they sent me new one, that deforms protected cells since its now less space in the battery tube. Same model light, updated swith, same battery. You see, it doesn't take much. But it would be nice to know if the light is designed for unprotected or protected cells.

Also do you use the same white balance with all lights?? If not this should be set to daylight imo. So it becomes apparant if the lights led is not of very neutral spectrum on sceen. Also some presonal comments would be nice abourt the light output and spread such as "light has low lumen output but the spread is very good and the neutral spectum helps with resolving important details and bl abla bla..." or "light has much lumens and the tunnel shot seems good but in real life use the light is only mediocre because of reason1, 2 and 3."

Other than that, I have no particular wishes regarding this new test.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

blackbean said:


> I don't see much change from last year's batch of lights. Most of the ones that are on this list that were reviewed last year seems to be priced about the same and producing about the same amount of lumens.
> 
> The growth in output and options were incredible the last 3 years. But I guess the ride is over for now. The changes now seems incremental.


The ride is not over it seems

Xlamp MT-G2 emitter supply max output 2750

ThruNite TN35 - ThruNite Official Store
Cree Components Products XLamp MTG2 EasyWhite


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Can't wait to see some of the self contained 1000 lumen lights real tests.

Thx for doing this again.

MB


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Isn't the Taz 1400, actually the Taz 1500?

thanks for doing this testing, really helps when trying to buy good lights:thumbsup:


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## stu06 (Dec 8, 2012)

Here's an example of bike light reviews with useful subjective comments: Big Gun LEDs (2011 MJJ) | Bicycling Australia


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## pabcor (Aug 25, 2011)

Here two ones more, but the best of all is MTBR Francois Light Test

Photographic comparison of power of cycling lights, headlamps and flashlights.

The big road.cc lights test 2012 | road.cc


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

car bone said:


> The ride is not over it seems
> 
> Xlamp MT-G2 emitter supply max output 2750
> 
> ...


The MT-G2 emitter array looks promising. At the 6 volt configuration @ 3A you can get ~ 1900-2000 lumen. Not bad from something this small. One of these in a single emitter magicshine type reflector lamp could make an awesome helmet light. I'm drooling just thinking about how great a single emitter lamp could be built using one of these.

( Note; the 2750 lm is the output quoted by ThurNite for their turbo mode. More than likely they are over-driving it beyond the listed max to get that output ( according to the data sheet ). If they do that it will get hot real quick and quickly lose output. When torch manufacturers do this kind of thing they expect the user to understand that it can only be used in turbo mode for short periods. )


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## mroze (Feb 2, 2007)

What about charging ease of use. 
Some manufacturers say you could leave the battery plugged into the charger safely.
Others say you should not leave the charging battery unattended. That worries me.


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## Frowzy (Oct 30, 2014)

You should test Moonlights Bright as Day.
They claim to have made a 8500 real (non fictional) lumen bike/headlight
(as well as 6000,3000,1500)

Dont think there are any international tests of their lights.
Or any tests of their lights where anyone has checked their claimed lumen other than "OMG this is bright"

Link to page: Headlamps


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Paochow said:


> Isn't the Taz 1400, actually the Taz 1500?
> 
> thanks for doing this testing, really helps when trying to buy good lights:thumbsup:


Uggh, I think I messed that up. Thank you!

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

mroze said:


> What about charging ease of use.
> Some manufacturers say you could leave the battery plugged into the charger safely.
> Others say you should not leave the charging battery unattended. That worries me.


They mostly USB now so that's completely safe.

And all of the ones I'm testing that are not USB can be left on the charger. They have auto-shutoffs in the chargers. If they don't have it, they are not safe and I don't test them.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Lumicycle from the UK is now in with three lights:

Explorer Enduro Pack with Helmet Kit
Summit Enduro Pack
InSight Combination Brake/Tail Light with integral battery

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

stu06 said:


> Here's an example of bike light reviews with useful subjective comments: Big Gun LEDs (2011 MJJ) | Bicycling Australia


This is really good. But to be honest, I'll be light on the commentary.

Lumen output, backyard beam pattern, and VIDEOS of the lights in action!!!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

StiHacka said:


> No plans for Trailled XXX, the updated version with new LEDs?


That is a possibility. I'll check first the delta between last year's XS and this year's.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

car bone said:


> Where is gemini?? Also I would like to see A LOT more rear light, preferably really good ones with high lumens. and maybe vids of their flashpatterns.
> 
> Also this time I would like to see some real "user" review of the lights. For example how is the switch? mushy or distinct, is it hard to for example switch from the lowest setting to the highest in a high stress situation?
> 
> ...


Good input. Lotta work though as I have 60+ lights. 

Gemini seems to have done nothing this year to update lights. In fact, last year's light seemed the same as the year before according to my measurements. Am I wrong i that thinking?

I'm taking video this year and adding more commentary. I'll take all your feedback into consideration.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Example of videos:

Niterider Lumina 750





Lezyne Mega Drive 1400 lumen





This video was taken on a fixed loop using a GoPro Hero 4 with exposure locked at 1600 ISO. Width is set to Wide viewing mode so the angle is very wide at 170 degrees.


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## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

car bone said:


> The ride is not over it seems
> 
> Xlamp MT-G2 emitter supply max output 2750
> 
> ...


I was referring to the products being retested this year that were also tested last year. For instance, compare the Cateye, Lupine, Lezyne, Light & Motion, Niterider, Serfas and Gloworm products from last years test to this years lumen claims. For all those models, the lumen output for 2015 have not increased dramatically from the 2014 models.

The flashlight you list was not tested last year. Neither is it a bike light. And merely listing a Chinese made light claiming to produce 2750 lumens does not have any bearing on my statement. So. The ride is over IMO.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

blackbean said:


> I was referring to the products being retested this year that were also tested last year. For instance, compare the Cateye, Lupine, Lezyne, Light & Motion, Niterider, Serfas and Gloworm products from last years test to this years lumen claims. For all those models, the lumen output for 2015 have not increased dramatically from the 2014 models.
> 
> The flashlight you list was not tested last year. Neither is it a bike light. And merely listing a Chinese made light claiming to produce 2750 lumens does not have any bearing on my statement. So. The ride is over IMO.


I meant that innovation is still being done, just not in bike lights. Maybe next year??


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## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

car bone said:


> I meant that innovation is still being done, just not in bike lights. Maybe next year??


Well, I should have qualified it better. I was specifically referring to the increase in lumens. But in other respects the 2015 crop of lights does not offer much more either.

Innovation in lights are far from over. That I don't even doubt for a minute. IMO the next big innovation should be speed adjustable output. I know there are some lights with this capability (the Full Beam SPEED LED comes to mind) , but I really think it's a great feature that hopefully will become more standard.

Then off course all lights could go completely cordless (that does not mean the batteries are not replaceable, because for most cordless lights they are and can even be changed mid-ride). Add a port like Exposure does so you can add a battery if you want. And some people might always want a separate battery pack. But most users would prefer the convenience of cordless lights at the right weight, output, run times and cost.

Light innovation has a long way to go. Laser lights (if the tech does come to bicycle lights in another decade or two) will provide even better efficiencies and longer throws (more options on beam patterns).

In the short term, I don't think lumen output will go up that dramatically (not that it really need to). More than anything, higher efficiency LED's (or batteries with higher energy densities) would be more welcome.

Cordless (with little sacrifice in output and run times) and light output varying by speed. That's what I'd like to see in the next 5 years.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

blackbean said:


> Innovation in lights are far from over. That I don't even doubt for a minute. IMO the next big innovation should be speed adjustable output. I know there are some lights with this capability (the Full Beam SPEED LED comes to mind) , but I really think it's a great feature that hopefully will become more standard.


What about adding the ability for the lights to move depending on say a gyroscope or at least by how the bar is turned? Kind of like those care headlights that will turn 15 degrees or something when you are turning? That would be cool.

I want a light that aims more upward when the bike is leaned over, and aims more left or right when turning! Heck, if they can do that we wouldn't have to worry about beam pattern so much. :thumbsup:


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## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> What about adding the ability for the lights to move depending on say a gyroscope or at least by how the bar is turned? Kind of like those care headlights that will turn 15 degrees or something when you are turning? That would be cool.


My light already does that...when I mount it to my helmet ;-)


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

blackbean said:


> My light already does that...when I mount it to my helmet ;-)


I want to mount my bar light on a live chicken head.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> What about adding the ability for the lights to move depending on say a gyroscope or at least by how the bar is turned? Kind of like those care headlights that will turn 15 degrees or something when you are turning? That would be cool.
> 
> I want a light that aims more upward when the bike is leaned over, and aims more left or right when turning! Heck, if they can do that we wouldn't have to worry about beam pattern so much. :thumbsup:


This won't happen since motors/gyros inside light heads are very complex and expensive. Plus the light is already on one's pivoting head or handlebar.

There is something interesting in outdoor headlamps where the beam pattern gets wider and brighter based on ambient lighting conditions. It does this by firing another wide angle beam to complement a focused beam.

TIKKA® R+ - PERFORMANCE-headlamps | Petzl


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

blackbean said:


> Well, I should have qualified it better. I was specifically referring to the increase in lumens. But in other respects the 2015 crop of lights does not offer much more either.
> 
> Innovation in lights are far from over. That I don't even doubt for a minute. IMO the next big innovation should be speed adjustable output. I know there are some lights with this capability (the Full Beam SPEED LED comes to mind) , but I really think it's a great feature that hopefully will become more standard.
> 
> ...


It doesn't look like speed sensing technology is going to take off. It just seems like installation is complicated with a wheel magnet and all. In the end, the upside is really not that much as it really just saves battery.

Speed sensing or movement sensing is going to take off in tail lights and safety lights where lights can turn themselves on and off automatically.

Also, tail lights can act as a brake light now as they sense decelaration and brighten significantly.

On the other hand, the Lupines and other high end brands are somewhat speed sensing. They throttle down significantly as you stop (because of heat) and they they brighten to full strength as you get speed and airflow. This all done pro-actively with electronics so run time is actually increased.

fc


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

francois said:


> Example of videos:
> 
> Niterider Lumina 750
> 
> ...


 Francois although a lot more time and work,, the short video on this years lights in action would add a huge amount of comparable information, not to mention just very cool to see them in action using the same Go-Pro and coarse. If you are able to do all the lights mentioned , THANK YOU!! This will be a great source of information for those wanting to see the lights been used in a controlled environment for comparison. :thumbsup:


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Francois, while I understand why it is hard to do a test on the "cheap-o Chinese specials", I would say the majority of threads on the light forum are related to these wonders of the Chinese economy. Why not include a few of the more popular ones this go around? Grab a Solarstorm X2, 808 clone, and a Yinding (clone of...the Securitying brand) off Amazon and throw them in the mix.


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## Zatoichi (Oct 25, 2014)

A review of the Xeccon Sogn 900 and/or Sogn 700 would be good. Both are now offered with a wireless remote switch.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Two comments:

Any possibility of testing the new Dinotte tail light? That would be a great comparison to the new Lupine one.



francois said:


> There is something interesting in outdoor headlamps where the beam pattern gets wider and brighter based on ambient lighting conditions. It does this by firing another wide angle beam to complement a focused beam.
> 
> TIKKA® R+ - PERFORMANCE-headlamps | Petzl


I have this headlight and it works amazingly well. It evaluates the reflected light and adjusts the beam accordingly. So, for example, you if you are looking in the distance it will smoothly ramp up to the full 200 lumens. When you look down, say at something in your hands, it will ramp down the main beam and ramp up the wide angle beam so that it is pleasantly bright (but not too bright) on the object in your hands. It would also work similarly if you were doing some activity like snowshoeing at night. As you looked more down, the reflected light increases off the snow and the light intensity would drop and the beam angle increase. As you look up towards darker trees or the horizon, the main beam spools up.

I'm not sure how well this would work for cycling (probably not well at all) unless it was on your helmet. It would not be useful on the bars.

That said, I think that at about the current level of <3000 lumen lights that we are nearing the end of the lumen wars. Next step will be added features like wireless controls, adjustable beams based on application, better battery life, better mounts, etc....

J.


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## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

francois said:


> It doesn't look like speed sensing technology is going to take off. It just seems like installation is complicated with a wheel magnet and all. In the end, the upside is really not that much as it really just saves battery.
> 
> Speed sensing or movement sensing is going to take off in tail lights and safety lights where lights can turn themselves on and off automatically.
> 
> ...


If speed-sensors are an issue to install for main lights, it will be the same for tail lights. And if you have it installed, you can use it for both lights. Running with smaller batteries or cordless lights is a huge benefit you get through optimization via speed-sensors. So the one might enable the other. I'm not saying the industry sees it that way, but I think it has a lot of value that people will be willing to pay for.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

The opening shot is here:

Review: Lupine NEO 2 - Mtbr.com


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## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

Francois, you are having way too much fun!!! I see almost all the lumen measurements has been done too. Good job, keep it up!


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## Kbrembo (Apr 13, 2009)

I am loving the lumicycle explorer..it's stunning!

Can't wait to see your take on it v the rest


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

blackbean said:


> Francois, you are having way too much fun!!! I see almost all the lumen measurements has been done too. Good job, keep it up!


Yup, all the beam shots are there too. I just have double-check all my work since I didn't have a tech or photographer this year. I did everything myself! 

fc


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## NightOWL (Jul 30, 2006)

hmmm... the beam shots don't look that much different between the Gloworm X2 and XS.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Dinotte 4 looks good. 

XS is awesome.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I can't wait until these becomes available in bike lights

XLamp CXA3590 LED Array

18000 lumens!!


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

the backyard shots are really good this time! easy to spot who uses more neutral leds and the aiming of the lights seems much better than before so comparison is much easier. good job.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

It would be nice to add the serfas tail light USL-TL80.


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## GMM (Mar 2, 2004)

I bought the Exposure Diablo a few years ago based on the review here, and it is one of my favorite bicycling accessories. So simply to shove that self-contained unit in my back pocket or camelback, and then snap onto the helmut mount if needed. I also purchased a Dinotte XML-3 based on a review here. Really appreciate the beam shots and overviews as these were so useful in helping me choose two great lights. Thanks for all your work on this.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Francois, on the beamshots there are a couple corrections I think...

1) the light and motion taz 1500 shot says claimed 1400... That should be claimed 1500
2) the light and motion urban 500 says claimed 800 ... That should be claimed 500

3) more of a request... Can you put the names of the lights on the photos along the yellow 2015 shoutout banner so that if we save several to our laptops for side to side comparisons we know what pic is which light? Just enough info is all we need... For example L&M Seca 2000, or L&M Urban 500 etc. 

Great job as usual on the shoot out thus far.

Thanks.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

cue003 said:


> Francois, on the beamshots there are a couple corrections I think...
> 
> 1) the light and motion taz 1500 shot says claimed 1400... That should be claimed 1500
> 2) the light and motion urban 500 says claimed 800 ... That should be claimed 500
> ...


Excellent feedback as always!!!

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

car bone said:


> I can't wait until these becomes available in bike lights
> 
> XLamp CXA3590 LED Array
> 
> 18000 lumens!!


I was at Niterider a few weeks ago and I saw that thing in action. I even have video but it basically shut down my camera which was adjusting the exposure since it was so bright.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

car bone said:


> I can't wait until these becomes available in bike lights
> 
> XLamp CXA3590 LED Array
> 
> 18000 lumens!!


Don't know if the CXA series is going to work for bikes. Too much voltage required. Than again might be possibly with some kind of voltage step-up circuit. Still, would require a big battery for any kind of decent run time. Then again if you run it at 33% it could still produce maybe 3000 lumen. Possibilities exist. With something capable of producing up to 150 watts heat management would be the biggest problem.

The Cree MT-G2 looks more promising though in my opinion.


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## djembe975 (Apr 12, 2008)

Hey Francois how bout giving these guys a shot https://www.ridepdw.com/goods/lights/lars-rover-650 they seem like a reputable company and I would like to see how this light stacks up against it's competitors.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*@Francois;* You might want to check the yard photo of the Lupine Wilma 7. IMO the Gloworm XS looked brighter. Something has to be wrong there. :skep: The Wilma should be noticeable brighter. Perhaps while doing the test the lamp went into heat protection mode (?)


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Cat, 

The XS is just a badass light. Nothing wrong with the pics.:nono:


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## NightOWL (Jul 30, 2006)

I'd also like to see how the updated Trail LED XXX compares.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

NightOWL said:


> I'd also like to see how the updated Trail LED XXX compares.


Yup, I'll do it.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@Francois;* You might want to check the yard photo of the Lupine Wilma 7. IMO the Gloworm XS looked brighter. Something has to be wrong there. :skep: The Wilma should be noticeable brighter. Perhaps while doing the test the lamp went into heat protection mode (?)


I will check. The Wilma is a legit 2800 lumen light. It is intensely bright and big.

It should be burning a hole on my grass. I think my light is set to low, medium, high and I photographed it in Medium.

2015 Lights Shootout: Beam Patterns - Mtbr.com

fc


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

Too bad about Cygo. I have always been satisfied with their product....both in quality and in price.

The shootout is nice to peruse, but I tend to stick with something if it does the job for me. I like to avoid the necessity of "adjusting" to another device.

Unless, of course, the promise of superior quality and value is impossible to resist.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@Francois;* You might want to check the yard photo of the Lupine Wilma 7. IMO the Gloworm XS looked brighter. Something has to be wrong there. :skep: The Wilma should be noticeable brighter. Perhaps while doing the test the lamp went into heat protection mode (?)


There could be a technical reason for that. Dynamic range is the usual suspect. And the ability to use it to the max.

First and foremost monitors for viewing these things should be calibrated and such. Almost no one has a calibrated monitor.
A typical monitor has a dynamic range of 10EV/stops, so if you are capturing higher dynamic range stuff than this (which this scene probably is) you either sacrifice bottom end or top end, and the sensor clips.

You can combat sensor clipping by shooting at the lowest iso and therefor its highest dynamic range, lowest noise and highest signal/noise ratio, at the cost of long shutter times. And at really long shutter times (30sec-several minutes) you are introducing thermal noise from the sensor electronics.

Now a new highend camera has a dynamic range of about 14EV or so Tests and reviews for the camera Nikon D750 Measurements - DxOMark and you only have this when shooting RAW and only at base iso, when converting to jpeg it gets much lower, I think about 8EV or so in practice.

Your eyes have a dynamic range of 30EV (but not at the same time, i think 13-14 at the same time/instantly). This is why images always look worse than the actual scene when you're standing there, not dark enough and not bright enough, at the same time.

So now we have a multiple of devices AND their individual settings capable of clipping, it gets complicated. And depending on how high end stuff you have, different things clips first. Also there is bit depth to consider, (how many levels between the darkest and the brightest).

Lets say the sensor is clipping at the particular setting used at 2000 or so lumens (and the corresponding lux value in the middle), if we put 3 additional 2000 lumen lights pointing at the same place, it will still be clipped, it can't get more clipped because clipped is clipped, the ceiling has been reached. Its a bit like toast, once you toast it you can never untoast it.

The problem with different lights looking very similar is that the devices used to capture them has limited dynamic range so a compromise always has to be made and similar for the viewing devices, its all compromises.

If I were to conduct a test like this, I would calibrate with the brightest, highest intensity light so pics of that one is on the edge of clipping and all the rest will use the same setting, some pics would most likely be completely black.

Even if someone could shoot these pics at 14EV DR most of us could never see the difference anyway because our monitors are either too shitty or set up incorrectly.

I think the pics turned out good though. Just saying.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

A little curious about this years Lupine Lumen measurements. While I'm not aware of any driver improvements on any products over last year other than a lens upgrade on the Betty, the Betty is measuring huge lumen improvements over last year, more than one would think an improved lens would provide,, while both the Wilma and Piko seem to have measured exactly the same as last year,, (exactly!!). Overall I'm seeing better lumen readings on some of the same lights as last year outside of just the Lupine's EX: X-2 was 1400 last year and well over 1500 this year with no driver upgrade. Maybe the integrating sphere was calibrated a little different this year??


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Not sure if its been mentioned already, but looks like Dinotte is finally on board specifying actual backyard lm ratings.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

indebt said:


> A little curious about this years Lupine Lumen measurements. While I'm not aware of any driver improvements on any products over last year other than a lens upgrade on the Betty, the Betty is measuring huge lumen improvements over last year, more than one would think an improved lens would provide,, while both the Wilma and Piko seem to have measured exactly the same as last year,, (exactly!!). Overall I'm seeing better lumen readings on some of the same lights as last year outside of just the Lupine's EX: X-2 was 1400 last year and well over 1500 this year with no driver upgrade. Maybe the integrating sphere was calibrated a little different this year??


The biggest difference this year is the fan. Last year, we had a little clip-on desk fan while this year's setup had an industrial fan aimed perfectly at the light. This is a bigger issue for the monster lights like the Betty.

Also, the Betty last year had measuring issues. We turned it on for 5 minutes, got distracted with chit-chat, let it rest for a few seconds and then started measuring. What happened is the light head was hot and was constantly turning itself down. This year, stone-cold, strong fan, turn on and measure.

Some of the lights that were unchanged from last year and got a good graph, I didn't remeasure.

fc


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## Chad_M (Jul 11, 2013)

Why didn't you include the niterider MiNewt Mini.350? 

I'm looking for a helmet light, and I have been really impressed with my niterider Lumina 750.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

francois said:


> The biggest difference this year is the fan. Last year, we had a little clip-on desk fan while this year's setup had an industrial fan aimed perfectly at the light. This is a bigger issue for the monster lights like the Betty.
> 
> Also, the Betty last year had measuring issues. We turned it on for 5 minutes, got distracted with chit-chat, let it rest for a few seconds and then started measuring. What happened is the light head was hot and was constantly turning itself down. This year, stone-cold, strong fan, turn on and measure.
> 
> ...


 That would explain things Thank you!! All I can say about the Betty is WOW!!: 4711 measured Lumans.eekster:


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## djembe975 (Apr 12, 2008)

Just ordered one of these https://www.ridepdw.com/goods/lights/lars-rover-650 after speaking with them on the phone. Any chance you can add that light to your annual shoot out Francis?


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

And with that knowledge it doesn't look too well for these 2 lupines imo.
These require liquid nitro cooling or what??


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## minneSSnowta (Jul 8, 2006)

djembe975 said:


> Just ordered one of these https://www.ridepdw.com/goods/lights/lars-rover-650 after speaking with them on the phone. Any chance you can add that light to your annual shoot out Francis?


@djembe975, please post your thoughts on the Lars Rover in a thread when you get the light. I'm curious if the PDW light and the new Planet Bike Blaze 650 XLR are trail worthy lights.


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

del


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## juicetifer (Mar 7, 2014)

minneSSnowta said:


> @djembe975, please post your thoughts on the Lars Rover in a thread when you get the light. I'm curious if the PDW light and the new Planet Bike Blaze 650 XLR are trail worthy lights.


I just made a thread about the PDW. I'm not an expert but it is certainly trail worthy to me. Here's my thread with a crappy pic:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/got-new-pdw-lars-rover-650-a-937991.html#post11562536


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Gharddog03 said:


> Cat, The XS is just a badass light. Nothing wrong with the pics.:nono:


From the hijacked http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/dinotte-xml-4-2100-lumens-913856-2.html#post11560963 thread...


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

francois said:


> The biggest difference this year is the fan. Last year, we had a little clip-on desk fan while this year's setup had an industrial fan aimed perfectly at the light. This is a bigger issue for the monster lights like the Betty.
> 
> Also, the Betty last year had measuring issues. We turned it on for 5 minutes, got distracted with chit-chat, let it rest for a few seconds and then started measuring. What happened is the light head was hot and was constantly turning itself down. This year, stone-cold, strong fan, turn on and measure.
> 
> ...


 Francois, I guess this also means that the grafts for the the Piko/Wilma are also from last year when a much weaker fan was used? It would be nice to see those two lights re measured with that better fan just to see a fair representation on how the heat over three minutes would be handled compared to everyone else having that benefit . The Piko for example really fell off down to approx. 800lumens after only three minutes,, I think it should fair better with a better fan,, maybe I'm wrong. Your thoughts??


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I would also like to make another recommendation. When taking pics you take them at between f8 and f11 since this will most likely be where the lens is the sharpest (after that sharpness is lost due to diffraction) and depth of field is large (depth of focus) [but real 100% focus can only be had at one single distance].

And also always shoot at the NORMAL focal length to get a standardized and comparable view. A normal lens is called that because its the same focal length as the sensor diagonal in mm, on a full frame sensor this is 50mm and on a aspc sensor this is 28mm (on four thirds its 21.6mm) . its neither wide or tele. its normal.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

indebt said:


> Francois, I guess this also means that the grafts for the the Piko/Wilma are also from last year when a much weaker fan was used? It would be nice to see those two lights re measured with that better fan just to see a fair representation on how the heat over three minutes would be handled compared to everyone else having that benefit . The Piko for example really fell off down to approx. 800lumens after only three minutes,, I think it should fair better with a better fan,, maybe I'm wrong. Your thoughts??


Absolutely. The Lupines will do much better with a strong fan and have flatter graphs.

Lupines have aggressive thermal regulation. The lights dim down pretty quickly before the lights overheat. The good news is they ramp up nicely too as the light cools down with moving air or speed.

In effect what you get is a speed sensitive light. When you stop, the Lupine will turn the light down. And since it is done with electronics, it saves battery. Then as you get going again and go fast, the light will turn brighter.

fc


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

As I wasn't there to see the difference in the two fans used last year vs this year, I'm happy to hear what I also thought,, that is the Piko/Wilma would have a flatter graph.

I do ride in cooler temps than many south of the border so my thermal protection on my Betty-R's aren't engaged that often but when it is, it is very gradual and only drops just enough to keep internal temps below 60c, then ramps up with more air flow. Great products!! Thanx again Francois for all the time you spend doing these reviews every year, I'm really liking the short video segment on each light.:thumbsup:


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## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

Just picked up an Exposure Equinox with the booster pack battery and colour me impressed.. this tiny self-contained light is pretty amazing.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

gretch said:


> Just picked up an Exposure Equinox with the booster pack battery and colour me impressed.. this tiny self-contained light is pretty amazing.


I am thinking about this light. Do you think it is worth the large scratch they beg for it? Any info on mounts and the such.


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## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

timsmcm said:


> I am thinking about this light. Do you think it is worth the large scratch they beg for it? Any info on mounts and the such.


I have no rides with it yet, and still need to fully charge the batteries. The bar and helmet mounts look good and get good reviews. I ordered mine from the UK to save some cash, but it came with the European charger... need to pick up an adaptor tomorrow so that I can get this sucker charged.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

Would you let me know how finding an adapter for the charger works out. I would like to do the same thing you are doing.


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## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

timsmcm said:


> Would you let me know how finding an adapter for the charger works out. I would like to do the same thing you are doing.


Sure thing... the European charger has 100-240V printed on it, so I am pretty sure all I need is a simple plug adaptor... shouldn't be more than $10-$15...

BTW, if you do order from overseas just make sure you specify that you want an adaptor for NA... I should have verified this.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

Thanks gretch. Does you name have reference to gretch guitars? Love playing big body gretch electrics.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Holy sh*t there's some bright lights in the shoot out !

I wonder if the Lupine Betty R 14 burned the grass and the leaves on the trees .


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

gretch said:


> Sure thing... the European charger has 100-240V printed on it, so I am pretty sure all I need is a simple plug adaptor... shouldn't be more than $10-$15...


Generic Round Europe to USA Plug Adapter: $1.21 & FREE SHIPPING


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

C.M.S said:


> Holy sh*t there's some bright lights in the shoot out ! I wonder if the Lupine Betty R 14 burned the grass and the leaves on the trees .


My Gloworm XS made the couch smoke when I was playing with the programming....


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## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

timsmcm said:


> Thanks gretch. Does you name have reference to gretch guitars? Love playing big body gretch electrics.


So I picked up a travel adaptor plug for the charger and voila all is good. Batteries are charged and ready to roll..

As for the name its not a reference to gretch guitars... just a nickname bestowed on me many years ago...

BTW, I compared the beam from the Equinox to my Hope R4s and the lowest beam setting on the Equinox was as bright as the highest setting on the R4s... and I really like the R4s. So, stoked to try out these lights hopefully this evening.


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## djembe975 (Apr 12, 2008)

When will you post up the review for the Lezyne Super Drive xl?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

djembe975 said:


> When will you post up the review for the Lezyne Super Drive xl?


Everything will be done sometime this week.

That light is 709 lumens
2015 Lights Shootout: Lumen Measurements - Mtbr.com

Beam is here:
2015 Lights Shootout: Beam Patterns - Mtbr.com

Cateye Volt 700 is a bit bit better and brighter for the same price. Not field-replaceable batteries though.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Hey Francois, I see you put up the Wilma review,, but didn't see a video?? I know your very busy but is there one coming?? Thanx!!


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Hey Francois, I thought everything was going to be completed last week. Any new reviews (like Gloworm) coming soon?


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## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

Hello?......any more test results imminent?


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## Boulder Waffles (Nov 26, 2014)

Ill have some pics up soon. no scientific stuff but some decent pics in the garage.

just picked up a Cateye Volt 300 for the bars and a Cateye Rapid x rear light.

Already sporting a NiteRider Lumens 750 for the helmet...should work together pretty nice


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Hey Francois,, I'm seeing no video's links of the more recent reviews including the Wilma/Betty-R. Can you let us know if you going to have time for those in the near future or are you just to limited on time. Thanx!!


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

What happened to this?


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## ghostchili (Aug 26, 2012)

Can you add a 3rd column labeled "tested lumens"?


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Looks like this thread is done!! Francois must have run out of gas a while back (busy guy!!) A little disappointed we didn't get to see video of all the lights in this years batch,,, but this takes a lot of time I guess.

Thanx and get some rest Francois!!


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## go606 (Dec 16, 2014)

hey guys just joined and didn't read this whole thread...what is a decent light for backwoods trail riding in the 100 to 200 dollar range? i see alot of potential good bang for your buck online but not sure about how they hold up to being knocked around..thanks in advance


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Get something entirely made out of metal, from a reputable maker, thats my only tip.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

gretch said:


> Just picked up an Exposure Equinox with the booster pack battery and colour me impressed.. this tiny self-contained light is pretty amazing.


Do you have any other thoughts on this light?


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## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

timsmcm said:


> Do you have any other thoughts on this light?


In a nutshell it kicks A$$... I am now using it as a bar light in combination with an Exposure Joystick MK9 (750 lumens) on the helmet... WAY too much light in most situations... I run them both on medium and still its a stellar output. Occasionally set both to max. on a really high speed or super technical trail.

And the fringe benefit is that I have two amazing flashlights when I'm not using them on the bike... win win...


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## NekoPlasmid (Apr 24, 2015)

I used my Fenix PD35 when I had it.


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