# ZTR Race rim wheel build



## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

I just got a pair of ZTR Race rims ( I'll post weights and pics when I get them home) and now deciding how to build them up. No Tubes recommends hubs with even spoke tensions, DT 240s are not even enough. There is also a 95kg spoke tension limit so probably not worth using Sapim CX-Rays\DT areolites.

What are your hub recommendations, Am Classic? Tune King/Kong?

What spokes, DT Revs? Wheelsmith XL14? Anyone have a source for Pillar spokes PB1416 / PB1417?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Red Tune King/Kong
dt rev


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

A Tune Kong has a worse tension balance than a DT 240s 6 bolt or 190. The Tune King front is quite good though.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

extralite?


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

what about the American Classic hubs?


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*AmClassic rear hub reliability?*

I still have a question mark on the reliability of American Classic rear hubs, can anyone comment?


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

I rode with them all last year, and built up a few wheelsets with them. . .

My own set worked great, but the rear hub developed a little play in it. The 2 others that I built were for Clydesdales, and they had no issues with them at all as far as performance. The issue that all of ours had though was that the freehub got chewed up, and it was very hard to get the cassettes off at the end of the year. On the 2 I built up, we were able to eventually get the cassettes off, but had to sacrifice the cassettes. On my own, I had to replace the freehub body because it got so chewed up I couldn't even force a new cassette on there. All of us used XTR cassettes.

For a weight to dollars ratio, you can't beat American classic. Just be wary of the soft freehub issue. On my own set, I think I had a bad seal, and one of my bearings got toasted quickly, so that is where the play came from. It could have happened to any hub.

If you don't like the AC's, does Shimano XTR make the cut? I know the XTR hubs are almost as light as the AC's but a little bit sturdier hub. The XTR's are only available in centerlock though, so that could be an issue for you.


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## sabresix (Dec 24, 2006)

I had the same deal with sonyisdope - freehub was chewed up, and both hubs developed lateral play even after they were tightened. 

I'm getting a ZTR Race 7000 build done by justridingalong soon - DT 240s + DT Revs, will see how it turns out.


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## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

what about sending your rims to I9 for the ultralight build setup? This might be the best of all worlds with stiffness and light weight.


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*Thanks Sabre and Sony for feedback on AmClassic hubs*

pricing on Am Classic is pretty good so could be a default choice.

On the DT240s apparently the tension ration L/R is not as good as Am Classic and with the 95kg spoke tension limit you'll need to exceed it quite a bit on the drive side or run very low tension on the non-drive side. I'll have to plug the numbers into Spocalc and check it out.


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## more tech please. (Aug 19, 2007)

do not get american classic. the hub body's stretch and the bearings get loose in them. I've swapped many hubs for customers with this problem.


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*Weights*

290gms and 292gms, a bit heavier than the claimed 284gms, but still nice.


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## sabresix (Dec 24, 2006)

Are they the standard ZTR Race or the Race 7000s?


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*The Std ZTR Race ...*

the ZTR Race 7000s have an additional sticker on them and a slightly differenent shape.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Hello, everyone!

so, can i safely assume that the 7000 series is much lighter that a Race alone? Or i got it the other way 'round? TIA! 

BTW, nice specs there for a wheel-build:thumbsup:


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## notenoughtime (Sep 7, 2004)

I can't find any info on the 7000 series and the plain Race series. It's not on the US site, but I guess we don't get rim only...


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## sabresix (Dec 24, 2006)

The ZTR Race 7000 is approx 5-6 grams lighter than the standard race, and has a different shape.


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

Yep, pretty close. Slightly different shape, normally 284g for 7000 & about 292g or so for the regular, and of course different alloys.


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## sabresix (Dec 24, 2006)

Does anyone know what the interior rim width of the std ZTR Race?


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

19.35mm


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Still have something to clear up... Apart from the scant WSavings (5-6g) and different profile(shape), does it have a label on it saying, 7000series. Photos here and on other sites aren't sufficient enough to tell... 

TIA!


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

Yes, there are additional decals. Another minor difference on the decals is the 7000 series are a bit more glossy but you'd have to have them side-by-side to tell.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Am glad you said, Mike. I've got an inkling, got to keep an eye on... So, given the chance, I should carry along my trusty scale with me (since some shops' scales aren't that accurate--I'm OCONUS as I speak) and reQuire the LBS crew to have both 7000series & Race available...

Hmmm... This would bring out the sleuth in me!

It's elementary, my dear Waston. *|clears a lump in the throat|* 

**Outside Continental U.S.*


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*The hubs*

I thought I'd give these a try, A2Z XCF-32 and XCR-32, they come in at 124gms front and 236mgs rear.


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## RookieBiker (Mar 9, 2006)

sabresix said:


> I had the same deal with sonyisdope - freehub was chewed up, and both hubs developed lateral play even after they were tightened.
> 
> I'm getting a ZTR Race 7000 build done by justridingalong soon - DT 240s + DT Revs, will see how it turns out.


Did you ever get your wheels built up w/ the dt 240's?


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## sabresix (Dec 24, 2006)

Still in the process of speaking to them. Unsure whether to use DT Aerolites or Revs. I have to send my DT 240 hubs over to the UK to get them built, so it'll still be a while.


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## LFASS (Sep 23, 2007)

im running wtb lite discs/revolutions on mine...
im only 135 pounds, and i ride pretty smooth (i think?)
But ive had no troubles with 'em. 

mine came in at 287, and 289, btw. sticker saved three grams! ahha.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Strong Ti said:


> I thought I'd give these a try, A2Z XCF-32 and XCR-32, they come in at 124gms front and 236mgs rear.


So, where did you source those hubs and how much? Not familiar. Also, if Stans is requiring even(ish) spoke tensions for the ZTR race rims do they recommend hubs and if so what? For even spoke tension on the rear you want a hub that has as little dish as possible, no? I should think that the hub selection would be narrow on these rims with the tensioning issues. This tension issue was a problem on the early release ZTRs and something that they corrected for over time.


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## ka0t1c07 (Aug 3, 2005)

Im thinking of getting my Race 7000 build up on Industry Nine hubs as soon as I get my hands on the rims. If I cant wait, then maybe the AC hubs. I have AC hubs built on ZTR Olympics. Now the front have very very little play on them. I tried tighten it up but still have the same amount of play. I believe its the hubs that gotten slightly out of size . No big issue though. As for the rear cassette hub, no problem here. Im a light weight rider. 128 lbs w/o gear.

Tin


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Wow! Real advantage for you. @128 so light, indeed!  I9, nice choice! Your own version of their sweet Ultralite wheelset, huh? Nifty!!!


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## ka0t1c07 (Aug 3, 2005)

Yeah, thats the only advantage to being a light weight rider. Not afraid of breaking almost anything. Hehe.


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*Got them from*

Toronto Cycles/ebay aorund $90 front, $130 rear. They are a bit more even in tension than DT240s. Stans recommends Am Classic hubs. The issue with tension is the 95kg limit and getting too low tension on the non-drive side rear.

I've built my front wheel with Dt Rev spokes and Prolock nipples, 3X, 567gms, will post pic soon. I hope to have the rear wheel built this weekend and looking at a sub 1250gm wheelset.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

somebody help me to find a set of ZTR Race with Lefty hub ?

but not AC hubs


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

more tech please. said:


> do not get american classic. the hub body's stretch and the bearings get loose in them. I've swapped many hubs for customers with this problem.


I can second that. I've also seen way too many bearings get toasted after just a few rides. Had an entire crew running them and within a month, half needed to be serviced. Poor durability in my book.


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

*So...*



Strong Ti said:


> I thought I'd give these a try, A2Z XCF-32 and XCR-32, they come in at 124gms front and 236mgs rear.


How are these hubs holding out for you?


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I don't want to hijack the thread but if AC hubs are not recommended, what other hubs are able to balance the tension of the drive vs. non-drive as well that are also non disc? I was planning on using ACs but am apprehensive now.


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*Fine so far ..*

I weigh 62kg so pretty easy on parts.

I'm missing the instant engagement of my Chris King wheelset though so thinking about rebuilding my CK hubs on a set of ZTR Race 7000rims. I might go with a thicker spoke drive side with this build.


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*ZTR Race and Race 7000 are disc only*

Other disc hubs that are acceptable include DT 240 centerlock, Chris King, and probably XTR.

I'll rebuild my CK hubs on a set of Race 7000 rims soon


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## ka0t1c07 (Aug 3, 2005)

Has anyone tried using Tune Prince/Princess Hubs on 7000 Race?


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## mboeder (Nov 12, 2004)

Prince/Princess do not hold up long at all..


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## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

Has anyone used both, ZTR Race (previous version) and the new ZTR Race 7000? I know the tech differences but would like to hear from users as there's quite a $$$ difference between the two.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

So, is it safe to run ZTR Race with dt 240?


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## moto367 (Nov 20, 2006)

*am classic*

someone told me that American Classics and the WTB Laserdisc lites are the same. Is this true?


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

It can be done but we don't recommend it. DT makes a fine product, don't get me wrong. With the rear hubs though there is a large tension imbalance left to right. On a very light rim that can be problematic because you can't increase the tension enough on the drive side to get an adequate non-drive side tension. You have roughly 58% of the drive side tension on the non-drive. The reason we use the American Classic hubs because they are closer to 82%. 

If you use a 240s or 190 hub you can expect to have a wheel with more lateral flex if you set the drive side tension in the 95kgf range or if you increase the drive side tension to stiffen things up a bit, expect the rim's lifespan to be shortened.


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

Not quite. Different bearings, different axle diameters, WTB rear flanges are a little further apart, etc. The WTB hubs weigh about 70g more for the pair.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Thanks. 

So, Olympics are better with these hubs, correct? Can I run them without problems?


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

Yes, Olympics are fine.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

sonyisdope said:


> I rode with them all last year, and built up a few wheelsets with them. . .
> 
> My own set worked great, but the rear hub developed a little play in it. The 2 others that I built were for Clydesdales, and they had no issues with them at all as far as performance. The issue that all of ours had though was that the freehub got chewed up, and it was very hard to get the cassettes off at the end of the year. On the 2 I built up, we were able to eventually get the cassettes off, but had to sacrifice the cassettes. On my own, I had to replace the freehub body because it got so chewed up I couldn't even force a new cassette on there. All of us used XTR cassettes.
> 
> ...


 That soft freehub problem, wasn't corrected on actual series?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

the new 2009 american classic MTB hubs (and their road ones as well) are going to sport new graphics a a steel insert on the freehub body to prevent the gouging...

I'm still not sure what to think of it. What are the typical failures other than the freehub body getting gouged? Bearings? Axle? 

In the picture note the black line going across one of the splines. That is the steel insert. However the spider for the brake rotors are still threaded onto the hub... which is odd. Will that ever loosen?


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## Happy Trails (Jun 29, 2004)

*American Classic Hubs*



Strong Ti said:


> I still have a question mark on the reliability of American Classic rear hubs, can anyone comment?


I have used them for years , love them. Yes there were problems. These have been fixed. 
They have been great for both road and off road. take a good look at them , big bang for the buck. Check the weights.


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## crankmeister (Sep 4, 2008)

why dont american classic offer anodised colours? im sure that would help them sell more.
thats the only thing that puts me of them that they just dont look as bling as some of the other hubs out their on the market.the weight and value for money is brilliant.
im currently looking to upgrade my wheels.im 70 kg and dont ride any drop offs or anything extreme its mostly light trails and journeys to and from work which does envolve some off roading.
i have decided on a stans rim of some variety either the olympic or the race 7000.dt aerolite spokes,hubs well thats not quite so easy.
Questions regarding rims would the race 7000 allow enough air pressure to be suitable on tarmac?

mike b i see you recommend american classic hubs on race 7000 rims.
thing is though i wanted to use tune hubs as they look much nicer having the anodised colour options,.would they be more suitable using the olympic rims?
ive read that tune and american classic hubs have had some reliabilty issues and when shelling out so much cash i dont wont to be worried about them going pop in a few months time.although im really set on a sub 1300 gram wheelset but im still lost over which hubs to use.
im looking for real help and advice here as i want to get it right first time.
thanks.


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## Happy Trails (Jun 29, 2004)

*American Classic Hubs*

Everyone The problems are fixed they had a run of bad bearing and the bad press never went away, I see a lot more Mavic hubs come back than AC. We have a top US adventure racer on AC hubs at 200lbs zero problems all 2008 season. The cass. body issue i cant speak of. I have personly seen this but dont have an issue with it. How much do you take your cass. on and off and a quick file will fix any marks, and for 2009 this problem seems to have been addressed. The new decals look a lot better also. As far as anodizing it adds cost and the bang for the buck $$$$ would go up.


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## Happy Trails (Jun 29, 2004)

*See my other post*



crankmeister said:


> why dont american classic offer anodised colours? im sure that would help them sell more.
> thats the only thing that puts me of them that they just dont look as bling as some of the other hubs out their on the market.the weight and value for money is brilliant.
> im currently looking to upgrade my wheels.im 70 kg and dont ride any drop offs or anything extreme its mostly light trails and journeys to and from work which does envolve some off roading.
> i have decided on a stans rim of some variety either the olympic or the race 7000.dt aerolite spokes,hubs well thats not quite so easy.
> ...


See my other post, This is based on my useage, the new decals look pretty good !!


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## crankmeister (Sep 4, 2008)

thanks for the reply ive just looked at your post their seems to be a new sticker on the hub.

on the american classic hubs what tools are needed to service them?


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## Happy Trails (Jun 29, 2004)

*Park tools*

Park tools makes some nice flat wrenches not sure on sizes but you need two. One to tighten and one to hold back. You tighten till you feel tightness then back off a tad, real easy. These hubs have (6) pawls this make for instant grip ! Bearing replacement is real easy also. I like simple easy. There was a question about the screw on spider for the disc. If you ever tryed to remove one of these you never question it coming off. It sounds like i work for AC I dont, but I think the product has evolved and gets a bad rap from past problems.


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## Happy Trails (Jun 29, 2004)

I'm done posting today. It's a warm nice day here in central Florida. Sorry you guys up North. So I'm going riding.


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

Just for clarification, the disc mount no longer threads on. I think that was changed around the 2006 model year, possibly earlier.


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## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

I've had a set this year with Race rims and Tune hubs, paired with alloy nipples and dt revolution spokes, the thinnest ones.
Pair weighted 1230 grams. Light enough if you ask me. I've ridden a dent in the rear rim, and have taco-ed the front one last month. 
Before I've ridden 6 months without any problems or re trueing the wheels. Very good if you use good spokes and a very well trained wheelbuilder. Use even spoketensions, pretty high spoketension also. 
At my rims you could see a small bump at the nipple holes because of the nipple wanting to come through the rim!
Need to put some new rims in for next year!


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## crankmeister (Sep 4, 2008)

MIKE B 

Can you get enough air pressure in the race 7000 for them to be safe to use on the road?
or will the tyres just get ripped off the rim with the extra grip that is generated from the tarmac?.............please explain? many thanks


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## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

Well there's a limit of 2,5 Bar (or 36 PSI as you guys say) for the rim. Ride with a harder pressure and theres a big chance that the rim bead is coming off!!
I've pumped them up a few times to 3 Bar (like 44 PSI) for setting the tire in the bead. But this is not good for riding!
Definitely not a rim for riding on the road! Actually also not for mountainbiking
Where is it used for then?LOL


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## crankmeister (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks for that so its clear race 7000 isnt sy=uitable for what i need.

This then leaves the question hanging over the olympic 347 rim, is this the rim that will suit my application.combined with american classic hubs as on stans site.

or should i just splash out on this 1400gram wheelset
ROVAL CONTROLE SL DISC WHEELSET 09


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Ninko, Thanks for the input on the ztr race rims. Do you mind me asking what your weight is? It may help me make the decision.
Thanks


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I've been riding the ZTR Race 7000 on the front of my Lefty equipped Yeti ASR Carbon for the last 6 months, and I've had no trouble at all. My geared up riding weight is slightly above the reccomended limit, but I justify that by having a really light bike. I run them with Continental Race King and Speed King Supersonic tires, and the pressures are generally around 23-25 psi. I also rode with this wheel on the road for a couple weeks while my commuter bike was out of commision. I ran it at 30 psi, and everything was fine.


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

I've not used them much on the road but on the rare occasion I ride the 26" MTB on the road for a little training it's usually with 2.0 Crow tires at 33psi or a 1.5" slick at a little higher pressure. 

Our pro riders that spend all summer in Europe can only take limited wheels with them so all road training is done with similar tire setups to what I mentioned above and we've not had any issues at all.


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## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

Ninko said:


> Use even spoketensions, pretty high spoketension also.
> At my rims you could see a small bump at the nipple holes because of the nipple wanting to come through the rim!


Stan's says no higher than 95kgf for spoke tension on their site. I interpret "pretty high spoke tension" as well over 100 kgf. Might be why you taco'd your rim...

http://www.notubes.com/support_wheelset.php


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## Sarns (Nov 9, 2008)

How well would the new ZTR Race 7000's lace up to XTR centerlock hubs? Is the tension even enough between the drive and non drive sides of the hub?


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## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

strader said:


> Stan's says no higher than 95kgf for spoke tension on their site. I interpret "pretty high spoke tension" as well over 100 kgf. Might be why you taco'd your rim...


They were tensioned to 95kgf, so that should be correct. 
And I taco'd the front wheel because I rode with 20mph into a horse...

@andy13, my weight is 70kg.
The rims are fine, if you want light rims that will last for like 1 season it's fine. Not to expensive and the lightests in their class.


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## oodave (Dec 10, 2007)

Does this spoke tension imbalance refer to the 9sp 240s hub only? I am keen to build a SS 240s wheel but I may opt for a 355 assuming this isn't an issue.

thanks


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