# Hardtail vs. full suspension



## savagegarrick (Jan 10, 2010)

O.k. I'm new here and not hip to all the jargon so please allow some errors. I've always been into riding, but as a teenager, moved from skatboarding, to bmxing. Then, since then I've snowboarded alot and surfed. Recently I got myself a Diamondback response. I couldn't bare to have the cheap schwinn for $200 even though it was full suspension and dual disc brakes. I new the quality of the diamondback was better and had read that the response frame was decent. I'd never had a mountain bike since before front suspension. I want to do something That anywhere my life takes me I can do. I grew up in the northeast, moved to vegas, then florida, then washington, then hawaii, then to maryland, then california and recently Japan. Now, I'm finding myself going back to Hawaii for a while. And online research has shown me I won't only have to spend my time in the ocean as there seems to be several good riding spots on Oahu. And As much as I plan on relaxing and surfing/bodyboarding, I now have that bike. I've seen a lot of vids recently. I love Follow me and Life cycles. I see that I'll most likely be able to find decent trails and riding just about anywhere I find myself. I'm not up to snuff on the hardtail vs. full suspension. I'd like to get big into riding, but the family and career will only allow for who knows how much riding time. I'm wondering if I should bother upgrading my current ride. Should I just see If I end up breaking it and need something else? I assume there are hardcore riders out there on both sides riding together with both set-ups. Is it really just a style and personal taste thing to a point? At least as far as beginners are concerned? I don't wanna blow alot of money, but could probably spend between $500 and $1000 on a new bike, or is it better just to upgrade what I have now?

Thanks for listening.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I would wait to get to Hawaii before deciding. Whether or not hardtail or FS would be optimal depends on the trails available and which types you prefer to ride. See what others are riding, and try both if you can. 

Around here we have mostly "cross-country" (XC) trails running thru the woods with a few roots and almost no rocks. Lots of gullies but no drop-offs. Full suspension is definitely not needed here. Probably 80% of people here ride hardtail, but FS has their following.

In your price range I think you will get more bike for your money with hardtail. 

If they have XC trails in Hawaii then you should be fine riding what you have until you get the experience needed to make a good decision on your next bike.

Speaking of Schwinn, I rode a used 1998 Mesa for two years, total investiment: $75. And that was a big step up in performance and price from the Wal-Mart mountian bike that I inherited from our son when he grew up


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## bharris24 (May 31, 2012)

Within your budget, you could get a pretty good hardtail (front suspension). If you could save a little more ($1k-2k), you could get a decent FS (front and rear suspension) bike, maybe a discounted, previous year model. IMHO, save and get a good FS bike, with good components. I'm sure everyone will give you a different opinion, and it also depends on what type of riding you wanna do, just my $0.02
-b


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## Boognish (May 27, 2004)

My vote is for a hard tail:
1) within your budget you can be riding a sturdy and smooth hard tail
2) learning your local trails on a hard tail will make you a better technical rider

Have fun with whatever you decide.


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

A 1k budget will get you a nice used full suspension bike. I would recommend going that route. Just be patient and watch your local area (btw where do you live?). When something pops up check it out to make sure everything is nice and tight, works crisp, doesn't have any major damage including dents or cracks in the frame, etc.


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## James_spec (Jul 28, 2011)

Ride it till it breaks then go FS and never look back. Worked for me.


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## huffster (Nov 14, 2011)

You have asked a question which may result in even more confusion on your part than help. The only greater debates may be 29er vs 26er or baggie shorts vs spandex. Anyway, my 2 cents is that a hardtail with a quality air adjustable front shock could serve you well for most XC needs. If you venture into the All-mountain or Downhill realms, then FS is probably worth a look. You will probably get better componentry for your money based on the price range you are suggesting if you go hardtail. Good luck!


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## iamspartacus (May 21, 2012)

I, too, am a noob. The advice i got was get the best bike you can afford. I asked the question that if you only had one bike, what would it be. Most people said fs. It will take you anywhere. Yes, it may be overkill in some instances, but it could handle almost anything..........based on set-up and quality. I saved up bit more then my original budget, waited for  a super deal, rode a bunch of different bikes, read a lot, listened, contiplated, then bought my bike. All in all, i am happy. Next time i am buikding a bike from frame up. This is an addiction. Enjoy the process, love the ride!


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## tdcampbe (Mar 21, 2012)

^^ yes. That. I bought my first mountain bike about 6 or 7 months ago. A 2011 Trek 3700. Loved it. Loved riding. However, it wasn't long until I found I was looking for something more. I wanted to be able to take those creek jumps that everyone else was taking and not have to take the ride-around. I liked the local downhill course but was completely uncomfortable on the 3700 as this these things were not what the bike was made for. Letalone the fork. I started looking for a used FS bike online and in LBS's. I ended up finding a GREAT deal on a barely used 2010 BMC Speedfox SF01. The dude had ridden it twice and tore his ACL and no longer wanted to ride. The bike didn't have a scratch on it! I couldn't be happier with my purchase and new riding style. 

Ride the piss outta your diamondback and save up a little more money ($1500 - $2200). Be patient. Good deals will come. Find the guy that really thought mtbing was for him and spent a lot of money only to find out that he got tired to easily or hurt to often and is now giving the sport up.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

savagegarrick said:


> I don't wanna blow alot of money, but could probably spend between $500 and $1000 on a new bike, or is it better just to upgrade what I have now?
> 
> Thanks for listening.


It realy depends on what you want to ride and how you want to ride it. If you are spending $500 to $1000 chances are you get get a much better quality bike in hardtail form than full suspension. This means lighter, better wheels, drive train, brakes, fork, etc. The reason is that you don't need to pay extra for the rear suspension.

I bought my first real bike in 1998 and spent $550 on hardtail. Solid bike, but entry level components. Much better than a cheap department store bike, but basic components and bit heavy. I rode that bike all over. It always took a beating and kept on going.

Then in 2003 I upgraded by buying new hardtail frame and building my own bike. At the time I could not get bike spec'ed just right and so choose to do it myself. I have been very happy with this bike. The components are all lighter and higher grade and the bike is lighter faster and more fun to run. That said it was abotu $1200 or so in parts prices.

I would have spend alot more buying a full suspension bike with those same components or would have had to settle for lesser components to make my price.

Now I don't feel my hardtail really slows me down any. I am not as fast as may be I could be on some descents, but I am ok with that. I also don't try to jump my bike more than 6" or so. My bike is not really designed for catching big air. I know these limitations and I am ok with it. What like is my bike is light, responsive, and efficent at putting power down.

However you need to decide what is best for you.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

> Now I don't feel my hardtail really slows me down any.


You may actually be going faster on a HT than FS . Small improvments in climbing performance can improve your overall time more than big improvments going downhill.

This is because you spend a lot of time climbing, but very little time descending.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

savagegarrick said:


> Is it really just a style and personal taste thing to a point?


Yes.

Both have advantages, and to a great degree it boils down to what is important to you and what exactly you want to do.

On a FS bike it is easier to go fast over rough ground. Managing the speed often becomes the challenge. A HT, or rigid, bike is more work in the rough stuff and you probably don't feel like hitting everything fast. Coping with the obstacles is the challenge. At the moment, I'm happier negotiating the rocks and roots at moderate speeds on a rigid bike. It is me doing all the work and not an arrangement of pivots, springs and dampers.

YMMV


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## savagegarrick (Jan 10, 2010)

Yeah, ok, thanks. I'm born and raised in Vermont. I missed out on SO much never having really ridden there, being into skating and taking off right after High school. I'm on a Navy base in japan right now and right eges of roads, between buildings, down enbankments and such. I love roots and drop offs. I'll do edges of parking lots at about 18"-24" but things such as loading docks and similar things are more for BMX which I do, have done. But I want to use my bike off road and i don't want to destroy it with urban riding/bashing. I'll never be getting comfortable with more air than maybe 3-5 feet, I'd assume, who knows, but constant drops and gaps of 2-3 feet would be nice. It looks like the advice I'm getting is what I was thinking. I'll just ride for now, and see what my current set-up can take and upgrade as needed. I think a hard tail will be fine, I just want to make sure my bike will be able to handle whatever my mood decides to throw at it.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

DennisF said:


> You may actually be going faster on a HT than FS . Small improvments in climbing performance can improve your overall time more than big improvments going downhill.
> 
> This is because you spend a lot of time climbing, but very little time descending.


I don't care that much about speed overall, but want to expend the least amout of energy as possible. So going up a hill with heavy bike takes more energy. Going down hill on a lighter bike takes little if any more energy than ona heavy bike. You may get a smoother ride and maybe higher speed on a FS bike, but the effort to ride down is so much less than the effort to ride up. That means a light hardtail is more efficent overall for a given distance. Now what is more fun? That is up to you. Personally I will give up a little downhill speed to not drag heavy bike up hill.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

savagegarrick said:


> .. I'll never be getting comfortable with more air than maybe 3-5 feet, I'd assume, who knows, but constant drops and gaps of 2-3 feet would be nice. ... I think a hard tail will be fine, I just want to make sure my bike will be able to handle whatever my mood decides to throw at it.


I would not think I can take 2-3 foot drops on my hardtail. I have 100 mm front fork so the front end maybe ok with it, but that rear just seem like it would be really hard on it. I am 155lbs so not really big guy, but if you want to do alot of drops like that I would look at a long travel FS bike. 120 mm front and rear type deal.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

savagegarrick said:


> Yeah, ok, thanks. I'm born and raised in Vermont. I missed out on SO much never having really ridden there, being into skating and taking off right after High school. I'm on a Navy base in japan right now and right eges of roads, between buildings, down enbankments and such. I love roots and drop offs. I'll do edges of parking lots at about 18"-24" but things such as loading docks and similar things are more for BMX which I do, have done. But I want to use my bike off road and i don't want to destroy it with urban riding/bashing. I'll never be getting comfortable with more air than maybe 3-5 feet, I'd assume, who knows, but constant drops and gaps of 2-3 feet would be nice. It looks like the advice I'm getting is what I was thinking. I'll just ride for now, and see what my current set-up can take and upgrade as needed. I think a hard tail will be fine, I just want to make sure my bike will be able to handle whatever my mood decides to throw at it.


Sounds like you're going to beat the living hell out of a bike so my suggestion is to get a bike that's suitable to what you want to do. Some off the shelf entry level XC bike isn't going to live long if you're trying to leave the ground with it, especially not if loading dock drops are in its future. So I have two suggestions (which might cost you more than you have saved right now):

1. DJ bike: I have one, and it's fun. I didn't see your height listed but if you can find a DJ bike that you can put the saddle up to proper pedaling height, it's a pretty workable trail bike. Very heavy, odd geometry, but workable. They also come up used constantly so you can find a decent deal almost any time of the year if you're not afraid of used bikes.

2. AM HT: All Mountain Hard Tail; if you're as big of a fan of the term "AM" as I am then you probably shuddered reading that. All mountain is a meaningless marketing term that is generally applied to bikes that are meant to be beefier than a XC bike. Out in the wild the term "AM" can and is applied to anything from my 7" travel full suspension bike to an XC bike with a short stem and a 100mm fork. My personal opinion is that AM should be defined by 5 - 7 inches of travel with a single crown fork and a slack headtube (7" is pushing it); but who cares what I think?

Anyway, what I'm driving at is that there is a whole "underground" type of bike that tend to carry the AM HT moniker. An example that you might be able to find locally is the Kona Steely. These bikes have longer travel forks, slack headtube geometry, beefier parts (when sold as completes), and are designed for rougher treatment. Some more bikes like this include the On-One 456, Transition Trans-Am, the Norco "BC Trail" series, and pretty much everything Chromag makes. The problem? They're not cheap. The niche market they occupy means that they come with a hefty price tag.

So what would I do? Find a DJ bike and try it out. Then try and find an AM HT and try one of those out. If you can't afford the one you like better, ride your current bike until you break it and all the while save your money. Quite frankly, with a little bit of saving, you're even edging into new Giant Trance territory. Not the best bike for airtime, but might be worth considering.


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## Cormac (Aug 6, 2011)

JoePAz said:


> I don't care that much about speed overall, but want to expend the least amout of energy as possible. So going up a hill with heavy bike takes more energy. Going down hill on a lighter bike takes little if any more energy than ona heavy bike. You may get a smoother ride and maybe higher speed on a FS bike, but the effort to ride down is so much less than the effort to ride up. That means a light hardtail is more efficent overall for a given distance. Now what is more fun? That is up to you. Personally I will give up a little downhill speed to not drag heavy bike up hill.


I'm with you on that. Also the HT is capable of climbing faster. At least from my experience.



JoePAz said:


> I would not think I can take 2-3 foot drops on my hardtail. I have 100 mm front fork so the front end maybe ok with it, but that rear just seem like it would be really hard on it. I am 155lbs so not really big guy, but if you want to do alot of drops like that I would look at a long travel FS bike. 120 mm front and rear type deal.


I hit drops like that once per ride on my HT no issues yet. Sometimes I land perfect, sometimes the back hits first. Occasionally the wheels never touch the ground before the top of the bike. I have yet to break anything in half a year!


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

I really like my cannondale rush compared to my old trek 4500. The suspension on the cannondale sucks up roots and rocks so much better than my HT. I also feel like I expend less energy and ride faster.


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## extremedave (Aug 25, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> 1. DJ bike: I have one, and it's fun. I didn't see your height listed but if you can find a DJ bike that you can put the saddle up to proper pedaling height, it's a pretty workable trail bike. Very heavy, odd geometry, but workable. They also come up used constantly so you can find a decent deal almost any time of the year if you're not afraid of used bikes.
> 
> 2. AM HT: All Mountain Hard Tail; if you're as big of a fan of the term "AM" as I am then you probably shuddered reading that. All mountain is a meaningless marketing term that is generally applied to bikes that are meant to be beefier than a XC bike. Out in the wild the term "AM" can and is applied to anything from my 7" travel full suspension bike to an XC bike with a short stem and a 100mm fork. My personal opinion is that AM should be defined by 5 - 7 inches of travel with a single crown fork and a slack headtube (7" is pushing it); but who cares what I think?
> 
> ...


This is all excellent advice.

My .02 is also with checking out the trails when you get there. A 6 inch travel am bike will suck if the trails are all smooth and flowing. You'll hate lugging all that weight around.

I have a 26" FS bike and a 29er ht SS. The FS allows me to do silly things without penalty. The ht is faster and more efficient however it'll beat you up more on rough terrain. Generally, if I'm exploring or goofing around I'll ride the FS. If I know the trails and just want to get down and boogie it's the ht.
Zebrahum mentioned the giant trance....the Reign is close in price to a X3 and is a lot more AM. Just a thought.


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

One thing I also like about my fox float rear shock is that I can lock it out and I essentially have a hardtail. The rush is lighter than my trek 4500 anyways so it's a win win.


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## rockbasher (May 30, 2012)

I had been away from mt bikes for a while,picked up a 4" travel 29er XC bike,it has worked out great,at under 28lbs its lighter then the old hard tails I used to ride,with the pro pedal it can be just like climbing hills on a near hard tail but gives a little over sharp bumps.
So it isnt always reminding me I bought a big suspension bike,its just a really nice bike.
The LBS gave me 500.00 off on it but it still ran 2500.00,Im real glad I spent the extra dough.

If we had smooth trails around here Id have the lightest hardtail I could get,we have rocks of every shape and size imaginable.


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

I have both a rigid Air9 and an Epic Full sus, the full sus is defiantely more forgiving if I get the line wrong but I enjoy riding both. One thing about FS is that it does require a lot of TLC (maintenance) - it's a bigger attention seaker than my missus


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

JoePAz said:


> I would not think I can take 2-3 foot drops on my hardtail.


Hardtails are not all created equal. Just like FS bikes are not all created equal.

Time to post Jinya Nishiwaki's Whistler video (again), I think...






Oh, sometimes FS bikes are better for climbing too: when the climb is a bit rough, it gives better traction and lets you sit down more.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

perttime said:


> Hardtails are not all created equal. Just like FS bikes are not all created equal.


Yeah you are right. I am not comfortable with big drops on a my hardtail. Feel like I will start breaking and bending stuff. My bike is light and I never built it for big drops.

As for climbs.. sure sometimes a FS bike is better on certain part of climb. Overall however a lighter stiffer bike is probaly more efficent. It depents mostly on what you ride and how you want to attack stuff.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

JoePAz said:


> As for climbs.. sure sometimes a FS bike is better on certain part of climb. Overall however a lighter stiffer bike is probaly more efficent. It depents mostly on what you ride and how you want to attack stuff.


Not exactly, it depends on the trail. If the surface is rough like climbing roots or rock steps then a FS bike will out climb a hardtail in terms of effort. You can climb anything on either bike, but the rougher the trail the more a FS makes sense. My 7" 33lb monster out climbs my hardtails, my old lower travel FS bike, and the 575 I spent a week when I'm out in Moab and Grand Junction. Hardtails are great, but just because you're climbing doesn't mean that you'd be better off with one. 1,000' - 2,000' around here are just fine on my flat pedal equipped, long travel AM bike. It's more to do with the motor than the machine anyway. You'll get used to whatever you ride and that will automatically become the best choice for everyone you give advice to.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

JoePAz said:


> Yeah you are right. I am not comfortable with big drops on a my hardtail. Feel like I will start breaking and bending stuff. My bike is light and I never built it for big drops.
> 
> As for climbs.. sure sometimes a FS bike is better on certain part of climb. Overall however a lighter stiffer bike is probaly more efficent. It depents mostly on what you ride and how you want to attack stuff.


Zebrahum is right. If you are talking about efficiency FS would be more efficient than hardtail anywhere on the trail including fireroad because the suspension absorbs the bumps and keeps you linear.

When you hit bumps on the hardtail the front suspension compress and absorb the bump but the rear turn the bumps into a vertical movement killing momentum. Hardtail offer solid feel when pedaling becauses there's no suspension sag seperating the rider to the bike it may provide the feeling of efficiency but it's certainly not.


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## savagegarrick (Jan 10, 2010)

Yeah, after reading all this, I guess I'm looking for a bike I can beat and will not break. I'm not looking for a light bike to make my climbs quick. I'm strong and will enjoy the exercise. I jkust want to be able to bomb hills and hit as many bumps, small jumps as I can on the way down and not break anything.


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## Bjdraw (Jun 3, 2012)

I doubt any decent bike is going to break easily, hard tail or full suspension. To me I prefer a HT because I live in Florida and it is flat, so why pay extra for a FS bike that will offer little comfort over a HT on the trails that are near where I live. That being said, you can find a rock to jump over just about anywhere, and if that is what you are into, then a FS might increase the size of the jumps you can handle.


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## savagegarrick (Jan 10, 2010)

O.k., sounds good. So, it really does seem like it's the truth as per another post saying, if you like your ride and it makes you happy it's a good bike. Now aside from brand loyalty, I know the basic big manufacturers known for quality, but I read a post about most frames being made by the same 3 asian companies. So...Which ones are made in america?


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Intense, Ventana, I believe turner still make here.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

savagegarrick said:


> O.k., sounds good. So, it really does seem like it's the truth as per another post saying, if you like your ride and it makes you happy it's a good bike. Now aside from brand loyalty, I know the basic big manufacturers known for quality, but I read a post about most frames being made by the same 3 asian companies. So...Which ones are made in america?


Any contract manufacturer, whether down the street from you or across the globe, is going to produce what the customer specifies. One factory in asia may make frames for many brands, to different specifications. Those customers will each have their own policies about incoming inspection, etc.. The way to get a quality frame is to buy from a bike company with a good reputation which they need to protect.

Would you assume that all frames made in California were going to be identical quality?


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## Edirty6 (Jun 23, 2012)

I would try to test ride both and see which one you like. i love my hardtail, but with that being said, im afraid to push its limits because i dont think it can take the abuse that i would like to start trying, i've only been riding since spring but i want a FS downhill bike or a good AM beefy frame so that i can start building my skills in that area.


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## mevadus (Oct 22, 2009)

Seems to me like many of those who have replied haven't actually been to Oahu. Waiting to get to Oahu until you see what the riding is like might be a good idea. However, I can tell you that a lot of the trails there have been closed off as many farmers have taken their land back. One trail I can think of that should still be open would be good for a downhill bike, while another would be good for a hard-tail/full-suspension. One note: just because an individual rides a hard-tail down Whistler doesn't mean you have to. I personally have found that my full-suspension is awesome to ride downhill, and with the pro-pedal, is great going uphill.


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## iamspartacus (May 21, 2012)

Bjdraw, I too live in Florida and just purchased a FS XC/AM bike based on the input from my LBS. I am a little concerned now that I spent an extra 200 bucks on a FS bike bike if I don't really need it in Florida. Can you please elaborate? Thank you in advance from a noob.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm a medium-skilled rider, but can ride anything except hard-core DH, and am faster on my heavy 33 pound full suspension 29r (Titus RX) than on a lighter 26 pound hard tail. Ive lived and ridden in Florida, SoCal, Idaho (good stuff but snowy or wet half the year), Hawaii, Alabama, Oklahoma (Tulsa; better stuff than you might think), Maryland (good stuff) and Arizona (really good stuff). 

IMO an expert is faster on a hard tail, and nearly everyone else is faster on a FS ... Except in the case of urban trails or sandy trails (Florida) ... So if you only have one bike it should be a full-sus. 

But, if you can't afford a quality full-sus, I'd recommend a better quality hard tail than a bare bones suspension bike.


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## iamspartacus (May 21, 2012)

Scott In MD, what would you consider a quality FS bike? How are the FS from Scott, as an example?


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Scott In MD said:


> But, if you can't afford a quality full-sus, I'd recommend a better quality hard tail than a bare bones suspension bike.


I like this statement, and think it's worth emphasizing. FS bikes are great, no question. If you spend enough money, they can make a hardtail look stupid by comparison on just about any terrain, if not every terrain. Of course, the hardtail has its own unique personality which makes it quite desirable to many people; personal preference makes a lot more difference in how you feel on a bike than the technology behind it does. But cheap FS bikes do not share the same qualities as their more expensive kin; the suspension isn't valved properly, settings are frequently not adjustable, and the linkage is only there to provide the wheel movement and to mimic the design of a more expensive bike visually instead of functionally.

Reading reviews can help give you an idea of what sort of level of bike you're dealing with. I tend to find that magazine reviews can be better than online user reviews because of the number of bikes magazines get to ride in comparison to the one bike users buy and then ride. Most users who review a product do not have a wide breadth of experience with various competing designs and tend to buy a product, like it, and review it like it's the best thing ever. If there are hundreds of similar reviews, they start to paint a picture but I always take consumer review sites as just one aspect of my product searches.

Anyway, best advice was in the quote; if you can't afford one of the well reviewed, well designed full suspension bikes then you are almost universally better off with a decent hardtail.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

26r will usually be lower cost than similar spec 29r, and easier to get the frame right on a 26r. Anything from Scott, Spesh or Trek with X7 or Deore probably fits the bill, or a last-year model with a mix of SLX & XT. You are looking at a RS Monarch shock. Jamis has good affordable bikes. Jenson has a 2011 Focus Superbud 3.0 in several sizes for $1750 that is probably one or even two notches up from entry level. For hardtail, Competitive Cyclist has a nice Civillian steel 1x10 speed 29r for $1200 on close out that would be dead.center.perfect. in Florida but probably need a granny ring in Hawaii, as I recall. Go to the "hot deals" forum and ask there and they will steer you right. I guess you need to spend 1500 bucks if you want to race, but bikes get better quickly from $1000 to $2000.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

iamspartacus said:


> Bjdraw, I too live in Florida and just purchased a FS XC/AM bike based on the input from my LBS. I am a little concerned now that I spent an extra 200 bucks on a FS bike bike if I don't really need it in Florida. Can you please elaborate? Thank you in advance from a noob.


Ride what you have and don't worry about it.


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## iamspartacus (May 21, 2012)

Thanks for all the information. Very informative. I feel better about the direction I am going in now.


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## SpeedRacer84 (Jun 22, 2012)

I just started to get back into riding, so I'll give you my $.02:

I always thought $1K+ FS bikes were stupid insane, UNITL I took my cheapo $275 F/S Mongoose bike to Brandywine State Park in DE; on some of the downhill trails I had to ride my brakes b/c I felt like my bike was going to fall apart and that I was going to die. I LOVE F/S, it just feels better to me and absorbe "shock" better; with that being said, I'll NEVER buy a cheapo one again. 

MY plan is to ride this bike for 1-2 yrs (hpefully it lasts that long), so I can save for a REAL F/S bike. I've seen some that look really good for about $1,500 - $2,000. 

Brandywine is FAR from extreme, so that just showed me how important a wuality bike is.


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## sealuva (Jun 20, 2012)

Brandywine sounds like a path straight out of the Hobbit.  Sounds like great riding....


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

People love to say a cheap full suspension bike is far worse than a "higher end" hard tail. I wholeheartedly disagree.

Short of buying a "department store full suspension bike", you can get many of these great performing "low cost" full suspension bikes for an even bigger bargain since they are older models if you keep your eyes open for a while:

Best Value Mountain Bikes | Bicycling Magazine

Check ebay, craigslist, visit LBS shops and ask to see their closeout bikes. Performance Bike often have older gen Focus and GT bikes under massive discount. You can get a Santa Cruz nickel frame w/shock on CL for around 630 bucks (or 800 on HnR). Older gen Kona's went for dirt cheap on CL too. There simply are ways of getting your hands on a decent full suspension bike that didn't cost your right arm.

With that, I still enjoy my HT. Mainly for rides that are mixed pavement and dirt trails and for commuting to work. No sense in putting wear and tear on your full squish just to commute to work or cardio training.


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## bigfruits (Mar 21, 2011)

at that price range id definitely get a hardtail. 120-140mm travel, 67-69 deg head tube in steel sounds about right.


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

I would look around for a used bike. You should be able to find a used Cannondale Rush/Rize or a trek fuel series FS in your price range. You should be able to find some really nice hard tails in your price range new or used.


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## Merf (Jul 26, 2012)

I've had similar questions about the FS, HT discussion... is it better to start HT and move up to FS after a little experience or just go straight to FS!


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Merf said:


> I've had similar questions about the FS, HT discussion... is it better to start HT and move up to FS after a little experience or just go straight to FS!


It depends on many things but largely budget and skills. If you have a big budget and little offroad skill then going FS would offer you more control and comfort.

Opposite is also true, if you have a lot of good offroad skill you can certainly get away with riding HT.

In contrary to a popular believe that you should start with HT to learn proper skills, you can do that with FS and it would just take much shorter time to learn. Similar argument was made about the adjustable seat post. The way I see it is, if you can afford the $$, and weight then it's more simple choice to buy the control, confidence, and comfort than building one. 

Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

If you have the $$ for a GOOD full suspension I would recommend riding some. If you think you will enjoy it more than a hard tail go ahead and get one. If you cannot afford a nice FS, just get the best HT you can afford.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm in the same boat. Being on bmx bikes for years makes me want a hard tail


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## Call_me_Tom (May 26, 2008)

It sounds like this won't be your main hobby but one of many hobbies, because of this I wouldn't go out & buy a multi thousand dollar bike & I wouldn't buy a used bike. Buy a new bike from a LBS as they will help with warranty issues & tune ups until you learn to them yourself. They'll also help fit you to your bike which is actually a big deal, a bigger deal then most people think. You won't get those benefits with a used bike & on top of buying used, you'll need to invest in tools. 

As far as HT vs FS, buy what you can afford but as many have already stated, you'll get more bang for your buck with a HT. For $1k you could buy a entry model bike & slap a Reba fork on it & be set for years.


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