# Tideace Fm-M001 14" 26er carbon HT build



## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

My daughter has officially outgrown her GT Laguna 20" bike (currently for sale) and is due for a new ride. After looking at what is available and what I would be getting for the money spent, I decided to order a generic carbon frame and build one up from scratch.

The frame was ordered from Tideace on AliExpress but the same frame is also sold on eBay by Tideace and Dashine bikes. It weighed in at 1112 grams (any ideas on what an XS aluminum frame weighs?) and everything looks great on it so far. It has internal routing for the shifter cables which includes guides inside the frame so routing should be simple and straightforward. I found some pretty killer deals on the fork and wheels so that offset the cost quite a bit. My best guesstimate on weight is 22 pounds with pedals. Re-lacing the wheels to Crest rims with fewer spokes could help bring the weight down and so could finding a Reba or Sid instead of the Revelation. But right now I am only $25 over on my original budget so it will stay this way for now.

Frame: Tideace FM-M001 14" frame 3K weave in matte finish
Fork: RockShox Revelation RCT3 27.5 100mm travel 15mm thru axle
Bar: Chiner carbon flat bar 660 wide 
Grips: ESI Racer's Edge yellow
Stem: Wake 40mm 
Seatpost: GUB 31.6 straight post
Saddle: Codream 230x140 kids seat from Amazon
Brakes: Shimano Deore M615
Rotors: Avid G3 160mm 6-bolt rotors
Wheels: Stan's Crest w/ DT Swiss 350 hubs, DT Comp spokes, Sapim aluminum nipples
Tires: WTB Bronson Race 26x2.1
Crank: SRAM Stylo GXP 1.1 150mm (cut down from 175)
Chainring: 32T N/W gold ring
Bottom Bracket: SRAM GXP BB92
Pedals: Race Face Chester
Shifter: Shimano SLX M7000
Rear Derailleur: Shimano SLX M7000
Cassette: Shimano XT M8000 11-42 11 speed
Chain: Sram NX PC-1110


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## ghabe (Mar 7, 2015)

Nice build!



BXCc said:


> It weighed in at 1112 grams (any ideas on what an XS aluminum frame weighs?)


My 11" Specialized Hotrock A1 FS 24 frame weights 1309 grams to give you an idea:

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...alized-hotrock-24-a-1027978.html#post12916094


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## twwieringa (Mar 21, 2007)

What's your impression of the frame quality? Any rides on the bike yet?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

I'm still waiting on a couple of the parts so no rides yet. My initial impression is very positive. The finish of the frame is excellent and having the cable guide tubes for the internal routing is a huge plus. That is something that definitely could have been skimped on to lower the cost but it wasn't. The communication with the seller has been outstanding and I received the frame in the northeast US in 8 days. The only issue I found was a little bump of resin that was stopping the lower headset bearing from going in smoothly. I ran some 320 grit paper over it a couple of times and now it goes in with just enough resistance that it won't fall out on it's own. This is my third generic HT frame and I expect little things like that. It isn't at the Trek or Santa Cruz level of finish quality but it isn't far off either.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Very Nice, I am looking to do something similar for my son. Been looking at the trailcraft 26er's but this would be more fun. Thanks for posting. 

Did you have to pay any taxes on the frame?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Mark194 said:


> Very Nice, I am looking to do something similar for my son. Been looking at the trailcraft 26er's but this would be more fun. Thanks for posting.
> 
> Did you have to pay any taxes on the frame?


No on the taxes. The US has $800 limit so anything under that should be free.

I looked at the TrailCraft 26 Pro but the $1950 price tag was too much. Also, the headtube length is 130mm!!! That's 30mm longer than my wife's large TB3. It makes for a very tall front end. As far as price goes, everything is new except for the crank which is like new and I'm at $1025. Weight will be similar than the TrailCraft at 22ish pounds with pedals. Most of that is due to the 1800g wheels and 1775g fork.

Hopefully the rest of the parts will show up soon. I needs to be finished in time for Santa to deliver it.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks, I did think the pictures of the trailcraft made the front end look tall. How many inches are your bars from the ground? Why did you decide on a 27.5 fork? Is it the same axle to crown as a 26? If so, that could save $$ on the next build if the fork can transfer over. 

My son is currently 4' 7 inches, so he isn't that far off of needing a bigger bike

I looked the frames up, $330 with free shipping, might need to pull the trigger!


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Mark194 said:


> Thanks, I did think the pictures of the trailcraft made the front end look tall. How many inches are your bars from the ground? Why did you decide on a 27.5 fork? Is it the same axle to crown as a 26? If so, that could save $$ on the next build if the fork can transfer over.
> 
> My son is currently 4' 7 inches, so he isn't that far off of needing a bigger bike
> 
> I looked the frames up, $330 with free shipping, might need to pull the trigger!


I'm not sure how high the bars will be. I can take a measurement when it's complete. I'll measure my other daughters XS GT and see where that comes in as that has a 120 or 130mm head tube. I don't quite understand why a lot of the XS 26er's have such a tall HT.

As for the 27.5 fork, the A to C is only 10mm longer than a 26 and it will stay with her for quite sometime. If she needs more travel, a relatively simple airshaft replacement can up it to 140mm. But ultimately it was because I found it on Amazon as a warehouse deal for $165! I wasn't passing up a new Revelation RCT3 27.5 for that price. I knew one of my kids would need it.

My goal with the build is to only get new frames as she grows. I may need to with some 27.5 wheels in a few years but that isn't anything major.

Also, I purchased this from AliExpress and it was $295 shipped.


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## FowlerWheels (Nov 23, 2016)

Great to see someone building one of these frames! My son and I have been considering one. 

How tall is your daughter? 

Looking forward to reading your impressions once completed. 



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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

FowlerWheels said:


> Great to see someone building one of these frames! My son and I have been considering one.
> 
> How tall is your daughter?
> 
> ...


She is currently 4' 5". I measured the seat to bar clamp distance and it's roughly the same as her 20" bike which has a setback post and 70mm stem. I'm and still waiting on the brakes, handlebars, and valve stems so it isn't completed yet. I will post more as soon as it is. I did get the fork cut and mounted tonight though.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

BXCc said:


> She is currently 4' 5". I measured the seat to bar clamp distance and it's roughly the same as her 20" bike which has a setback post and 70mm stem. I'm and still waiting on the brakes, handlebars, and valve stems so it isn't completed yet. I will post more as soon as it is. I did get the fork cut and mounted tonight though.


Why did you skip 24"wheel size? Isn't that bike going to be quite big for your daughter at 4'5" in terms of standover height and reach? Most 26" bikes seem to have a 26" or greater standover height. That frame seems to be great for people in the low 5' range based on top tube length.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Yes it will be a bit big for her and I probably should put some 24" wheels on it and I still can if it's needed. TrailCraft specs their 26er for kids 4'9" and up and has an excessively long HT for a tall front end. There is also a good chance she will grow some more between now and April when the riding season starts.

As far as the ETT goes, that's a tough number to use. They are all over the place with sizes.

536mm - Tideace 14" 26er
525mm - TrailCraft Timber 26
515mm - Trek Superfly 26
529mm - Trek Superfly 24
521.4mm - GT Laguna 24
483.5mm - GT Laguna 20 (current bike)

So taking her current ETT of 483.5, going with a stem that is 40mm shorter and a post that is straight vs 22mm setback, puts her at a 545.5mm ETT to be equal. There is also 5" of post showing on this bike when I put the top of the seat at the same distance from the down pedal when compared to her old 20". I realize that there is more too it but I am hopeful it will work. The only kicker is the 26" wheel. Sort of like a 5'1" person riding a 29er.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

BXCc - Thanks for all the info, I ordered one from AliExpress today.... $300 and includes BB and headset, hard to pass up this deal. 

I was going to buy the trailcraft, geo is so close to this frame, plus I will save at least $500 bucks!


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Mark194 said:


> BXCc - Thanks for all the info, I ordered one from AliExpress today.... $300 and includes BB and headset, hard to pass up this deal.
> 
> I was going to buy the trailcraft, geo is so close to this frame, plus I will save at least $500 bucks!


Sweet! Glad to see another going this route. Please feel free to post your progress in this thread if you like.

And it's a $500 savings versus an aluminum frame bike. Which is probably only a pound savings at the most. I know for something similar to my build, a name brand bike would be in the $2500 range. Definitely still not cheap for a kids bike though. I think my wife might be right, I have some serious gear issues.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Will do, might be awhile, frame this month, maybe fork next month. Have to piece it together. My son has a Giant 24 inch that I spent some $$ on, so I should be able to sell it to finish the build early next year

ATTACH=CONFIG]1107989[/ATTACH]


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Mark194 said:


> Will do, might be awhile, frame this month, maybe fork next month. Have to piece it together. My son has a Giant 24 inch that I spent some $$ on, so I should be able to sell it to finish the build early next year
> 
> ATTACH=CONFIG]1107989[/ATTACH]


Nice build! Are you selling it as it is or will you be using any of the parts on the new bike?
I looked at the same bike at the local Giant dealer a month or two back. That is one of the bikes I had her ride in the parking lot so I could get an idea of the fit numbers. 
Just for comparison sake, that 24" Giant has a 520mm TT and a 120mm head tube.


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## FowlerWheels (Nov 23, 2016)

Mark194 said:


> BXCc - Thanks for all the info, I ordered one from AliExpress today.... $300 and includes BB and headset, hard to pass up this deal.
> 
> I was going to buy the trailcraft, geo is so close to this frame, plus I will save at least $500 bucks!


Could you provide a link to the listing?

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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

BXCc said:


> Nice build! Are you selling it as it is or will you be using any of the parts on the new bike?
> I looked at the same bike at the local Giant dealer a month or two back. That is one of the bikes I had her ride in the parking lot so I could get an idea of the fit numbers.
> Just for comparison sake, that 24" Giant has a 520mm TT and a 120mm head tube.


Thank you, I will probably sell it complete. I think I could get more money that way. We live in Phoenix, so we are in riding season now, so my son needs something to ride until I get the 26er done


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

BXCc said:


> Yes it will be a bit big for her and I probably should put some 24" wheels on it and I still can if it's needed. TrailCraft specs their 26er for kids 4'9" and up and has an excessively long HT for a tall front end. There is also a good chance she will grow some more between now and April when the riding season starts.
> 
> As far as the ETT goes, that's a tough number to use. They are all over the place with sizes.
> 
> ...


You have the Trek Superfly 24/26 #'s switched I think right? Yeah, at her height simply having to fight the inertia of the huge 26" wheels being way more taxing will be the biggest issue, so 24" wheels would probably be needed for sure. Head tube heights and top tube lengths can easily be solved with short and/or negative rise stems but long wheelbase, potential standover height issues and wheel size/mass for a 60 pound child on technical terrain would be the bigger concern.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

FowlerWheels said:


> Could you provide a link to the listing?


Here is the link to the one I purchased. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-mountain-bike-frame/1944411_32610686800.html



GSJ1973 said:


> You have the Trek Superfly 24/26 #'s switched I think right? Yeah, at her height simply having to fight the inertia of the huge 26" wheels being way more taxing will be the biggest issue, so 24" wheels would probably be needed for sure.


They are correct. Unless Trek has them backwards...

Kids are so tough to size as they are all built different and their bodies don't always grow proportionally. And the measurements between 24" and 26" bikes aren't proportional either. I'm hoping the 26" wheels work but if not, it's pretty simple to grab some 24" wheels and hold the 26er's for another year or so. Another factor that doesn't make sense to me with XS frames are the crank arm lengths. Why oh why do they spec 170mm cranks on a bike made for a 5 footer while a 6 footer has 175mm??? After having her ride many bikes on and off trail in her size range, I think that this frame has the best sizing. The majority of the kids bikes seem to put them in a very cramped upright cockpit. Which is great for the kids that just run the streets in the neighborhood.


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## kle5701 (Jun 3, 2016)

BXcc, thanks for posting this. I've starting looking for the next upsize bike for my son (currently on 24" bike) and cant decide which limited options is best. Was looking at the Trek Fuel Ex Jr or Superfly 26, but both those bikes are ~29lbs (for almost $2k) so I didn't really feel good about that. I've been watching the Tideance frame on Ebay but was hesitant on trying something like this. Please keep us updated; seeing your post encourage me to try this.


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## Kryptic (Oct 27, 2016)

Would this frame work for someone who is 5'2" and 95lbs, but not a kid?  It's hard to find an adults XS frame that fits, especially with room for a dropper post. 
Sorry for going slightly off-topic!


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Kryptic said:


> Would this frame work for someone who is 5'2" and 95lbs, but not a kid?  It's hard to find an adults XS frame that fits, especially with room for a dropper post.
> Sorry for going slightly off-topic!


At 5'2", I would think that it would be a bit small. I ride with a woman who is 5'1" and rides an extra small Juliana Furtado (SC 5010 v2) and it fits her really well. My oldest is pushing 5' and I have been looking at this one for her next bike.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32512414646.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.NgmwaI


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## Kryptic (Oct 27, 2016)

BXCc said:


> At 5'2", I would think that it would be a bit small. I ride with a woman who is 5'1" and rides an extra small Juliana Furtado (SC 5010 v2) and it fits her really well. My oldest is pushing 5' and I have been looking at this one for her next bike.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32512414646.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.NgmwaI


Thanks, very interesting! The Futardo is about 10x the price of these frames, so I think we'll try the Tideace frame first. Looks like this frame can be set up with QR or thru-axle, so we could run the existing QR wheels for now and upgrade in the future?


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

I got the frame in 7 days from China!


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

BXCc -did you use the headset that came with teh frame? unless I am missing something, the bearings will sit right inside the frame on the carbon?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Kryptic said:


> Thanks, very interesting! The Futardo is about 10x the price of these frames, so I think we'll try the Tideace frame first. Looks like this frame can be set up with QR or thru-axle, so we could run the existing QR wheels for now and upgrade in the future?


Ya the Furtado was for size reference only. I like the 135 / 142 options too. Should be a good fit though


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Mark194 said:


> BXCc -did you use the headset that came with teh frame? unless I am missing something, the bearings will sit right inside the frame on the carbon?


Yup. I used the supplied headset and yes it just goes straight in the frame.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

BXCc - did you get teh bike finished? Any ride reports? I have frame, fork and should have the wheels on Sunday. Hoping to get it done by the end of January, will post some pics soon....

Thanks


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Well there was a delay with the brakes and handlebars so that put things off for a bit. The brakes finally arrived last Friday and my daughter helped me install them over the weekend. She isn't too happy right now though as the driveway and roads are covered in ice and slush so riding isn't an option. We hope to get a ride in next week sometime. 

As far as fit goes, it looks really good when she is on the bike. The standover is a stretch though. If she doesn't grow a bit over the next 4 months, I may need to find some 24" wheels to help out a bit. Otherwise, she will ride her old bike on the trails and keep this for bike path riding until she gets used to it and grows into it. It's a bit of a bummer but not unexpected. I did the same with her sister when she was due for a bigger bike.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Hi Guy's -

Working on my sons build as the budget allows. Shopping for deals on parts, here is what we have so far, bit so far, hope to have it done mid Feb. Anyone have suggestions on kids seats?

Thanks


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Looks great! I wish I would have found a black fork for our build but it didn't work out that way. White and new was as cheap or cheaper than black and used. I went with the Crest wheels too. Relatively light and a good tubeless setup. 
Here is what both of my girls are running for seats. They aren't super light but they are nice and short, comfortable for them, come in a couple of colors, and under $20 on Amazon.

Soft Bicycle Seat for Kids and Teens Comfortable Human Shape and Ventilation Design Children Bike Seat 9x5.5inch(Black + Yellow) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015FQ9W6Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_phPDybCHQ9NS3


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## bytesiz (Sep 6, 2007)

Been happy with this one. Very light and the right size for my 8 year old. https://www.ebay.com/itm/291772374866

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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks, I will check it out...


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

It only took 3 months but the handlebars finally arrived and she helped me install them today. She is super happy with how it came out. And now for pictures.


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## FowlerWheels (Nov 23, 2016)

BXCc said:


> It only took 3 months but the handlebars finally arrived and she helped me install them today. She is super happy with how it came out. And now for pictures.
> 
> View attachment 1120022
> View attachment 1120021
> ...


Looks awesome! I'm sure she's stoked to have that and will always appreciate your dedication to her and her hobbies!

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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Looks great, nice work!!


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Great build and thanks for sharing. It's really helped to push me to go the same route. My son is 4'10 and when he outgrows this frame I can pass it down to his younger sister. He was needing a better fork and the ole 2013 XTC Jr 24 frame is just so unaccommodating that it was starting to cost twice the money just to work around its shortcomings. Finding a solid 1-1/8 straight steerer fork that is not junk or a boat anchor had turned out to like the search for Sasquatch. The forks I found at this point in time are two to three times the price of the this frame, so I said to myself might as well cut my losses and move him up.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I got my FM-001 in today. The big box felt empty almost, it was so light. But now I have to figure out cranks. My son's old 150mm cranks are BSA, smh things always have to be difficult. I did find the SRAM NX GXP Crankset which comes in 155mm lengths with 24mm spindle. And its cheap and relatively light. I'll go this route versus getting BB92 to BSA adapter.



Mark194 said:


> Anyone have suggestions on kids seats?


Have you looked at the Tioga D-Spyder BMX seat? It's shorter than the adult seat and pretty light, weight weenie status.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

thesmokingman said:


> I got my FM-001 in today. The big box felt empty almost, it was so light. But now I have to figure out cranks. My son's old 150mm cranks are BSA, smh things always have to be difficult. I did find the SRAM NX GXP Crankset which comes in 155mm lengths with 24mm spindle. And its cheap and relatively light. I'll go this route versus getting BB92 to BSA adapter.


Sweet! I'm glad the thread has helped some others. The NX cranksets are pretty good for the price. I need to get one for my other daughters bike. For this one, I just cut down, drilled, and tapped some Stylo 175 cranks to 150. The cutting and tapping process is pretty simple and straight forward if you have any laying around.

I came across this 26" SID XX the other day if anyone is in need of a fork. It's 120mm but can easily be lowered with a new airshaft.

https://www.amazon.com/RockShox-Tap...5-23b4-40b1-8da6-7c1c9eb81d33&pf_rd_i=desktop


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

For the crank, I didn't want to deal with cutting and tapping since I was buying new cranks, might as well avoid that. And the NX are pretty light too. In that price range Zee's are over 840g where the NX are 680g, such a huge difference. I stayed with QR on the 26, already had the wheels from when I built up the 24er set from the old frame. I just ordered new sapim lasers and dt alloy nips. Bikehubstore is blowing out their stock of 26er rims, so I got a pair those, 430g fairly light and strong for 20ea.

Man the waiting game always kills me during a build.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

That's always the toughest part. It's definitely fun though building them from the bare frame. The NX crank was my plan for this one too but I had the Stylo's from a previous bike so I figured I would give the drill and tap method a try. Good luck on the build and post pictures along the way.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Ok all finished up and just in time too. My son has his first event this weekend. I had him do some shakedown runs. He got too excited and laid it down too, grits teeth. Luckily he just washed out, and it was hard to tell how much rash he had because of the dirt/mud. Anyways, nothing broke on him or the bike. The frame is pretty darn stiff. I covered it in a lot of 3M. As of right now with the reverb dropper, weight is 22.5lbs with a mix of a couple key weight weenie parts and the rest are standard fare. It's not too bad of a weight.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Great build! I definitely would have liked to put a SID WC on our build. 22.5 pounds is great especially with the dropper. He must be so excited. Thanks for posting.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Looks great!


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Finished my sons bike a couple of weeks ago, and he is loving it! Thinking about taking thr fork down to a 80mm until he gets a little taller and we can rasie the set height. Seems like the front end is wandering on him during the climbs. Thinking the 80mm might add a little weight to the front.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

BXCc said:


> Great build! I definitely would have liked to put a SID WC on our build. 22.5 pounds is great especially with the dropper. He must be so excited. Thanks for posting.


Yea, he's pretty excited. I finally got around to building him a set of wheels. I just threw on a very old set of Easton XC1 wheels. I built up a set with WTB Speeddisc and Sapim Lasers with the old Rotaz hubs. Then I taped them up and poured some stans in. Now he can run ridiculously low pressures, especially good for his weight.

Oh btw, I came across this frame from Shenzen First, its the FM125. I believe it can be ordered in 26er and as small as 15.5, and it is fully internally routed and boost. I was thinking at the end of the year when his bike handling skills have improved. Just got quoted 538 for the frame, and probably 80 ish for shipping. That is as cheap as a used circa 2010-2013 26er full suspension frame.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

thesmokingman said:


> For the crank, I didn't want to deal with cutting and tapping since I was buying new cranks, might as well avoid that.


It's really not so hard as you think.... I've done 2 sets now and the last set took 30 mins. I'm currently waiting for some Zee's to arrive and going to do those and get rid of the square taper BB. On the other hand too long cranks are far more of a negative than standover height etc. as they pull the kid forwards to try and make the circle.



> And the NX are pretty light too. In that price range Zee's are over 840g where the NX are 680g, such a huge difference.


Quite a bit less difference once you cut off the ends.... I can post back next week on weight .... unluckily I'm away with work Saturday and I'm not giving up riding Sunday ...so they won't get done until next week


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I didn't write that it was hard. I wrote that I didn't want to deal with it, and we don't need to get into another crank length debate do we? I've got enough **** to build and fix, procure, kids to drive to practices, I don't need to add more stuff on just because. And since this frame is a pressfit, its silly to convert a square taper to it, so since I'm buying a new crank might as well get the nx and not have to deal with cutting and tapping, etc. You dig?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

thesmokingman said:


> I didn't write that it was hard. I wrote that I didn't want to deal with it, and we don't need to get into another crank length debate do we? I've got enough **** to build and fix, procure, kids to drive to practices, I don't need to add more stuff on just because. And since this frame is a pressfit, its silly to convert a square taper to it, so since I'm buying a new crank might as well get the nx and not have to deal with cutting and tapping, etc. You dig?


Avoiding a crank length debate then ....
I wasn't suggesting a square taper... just pointing out the actual crank shortening is almost trivial.... (compared to all the other stuff you are doing) but arguably (without getting into the crank length debate) might have the biggest effect on bike handling.

When I said it's 1/2 hour it really is....

The problem with the crank length debate is how hard/expensive it is to TRY... hence it's a debate for anyone that didn't try... One of the other guys who built up a carbon 26er didn't initially try then did... and then like me decided it was a huge difference and ended up changing their OWN crank length as well!

It all really depends how close the NX ones are and if your PF BB can take a HT II or its got a built in reducer for the SRAM cranks.... *but I'm really just saying don't be put off by thinking the crank shortening part will take a lot of time/effort *

I'd convinced myself it was much much harder than it turned out (as in it must be less straightforwards than it seems and have unexpected gotchas) but in reality it's less effort than just doing an easy tubeless conversion and way less technical than changing a PF BB or internal headset. Our lists are practically identical  ... but out of everything it turned out to probably be the one thing that was actually much easier than I'd planned/expected....

The last set I didn't even bother using the jig I made for the first one...it's just not needed.

The only bit I'd like to work out is if its remotely possible to change the actual spindle off the Zee as that's where the weight is...


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

I completely agree with both of you. 

For this build, I had some Stylo cranks that were like new and not being used. The cut and tap process was pretty simple and very effective. 

But I also just bought some NX cranks in the 155 flavor for my other daughters bike. She has an extra small 2014 GT Avalanche that she loves and doesn't want to give it up. But it came with 170 crank arms. Which is pretty ridiculous since it's for someone in the 5 foot range. I debated about finding some old square taper arms to cut and tap but ultimately, I didn't want to take the time to save $50. After swapping the BB and the crankset, it saved roughly 250 grams, and 220 grams was just in the BB. The only thing about the NX cranks that I'm not a big fan of is the 94bcd instead of 104. I get why it's 94, as it would be hard to go with a ring smaller than 30t, but it also makes it hard to find cheap colored chainrings to add bling to the bike.


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## Whitewater (Nov 17, 2012)

Anyone care to put a component list here so I can try to price one of these out? I've never built a bike frame up but figured this would be a great way for my daughter to learn a bit as well. The most intimidating thing for me is trying to figure out what parts to use.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Whitewater said:


> Anyone care to put a component list here so I can try to price one of these out? I've never built a bike frame up but figured this would be a great way for my daughter to learn a bit as well. The most intimidating thing for me is trying to figure out what parts to use.


If I was to build another, I would probably duplicate the list I have in the first post. Drivetrain, brakes, seats, handlebars, cranks, and such will be pretty similar in price. They don't vary a whole lot unless you find some smoking deals or need to go very high end. The two big ticket items that can eat up a lot of the funds are the wheels and the fork.

After looking at my cost list, you should be able to build a very similar bike (with OUT wheels and fork) for around $650 to $750.

A good quality used fork in great shape will run probably $200 to $250.

Wheels, well that is quite a big range. I would think you could get some great wheels for $150 to $250.

So if you're not in a rush, I think $1100 to $1400 is easily doable for something similar to my daughters. Getting under $1000 might be tough unless you have some donor parts.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Whitewater said:


> Anyone care to put a component list here so I can try to price one of these out? I've never built a bike frame up but figured this would be a great way for my daughter to learn a bit as well. The most intimidating thing for me is trying to figure out what parts to use.


Use this for comparison.

Trailcraft Cycles

It really depends on what your goal is for the bike and child. I built a race bike with dropper, but had to err on the side of extra durable on the wheels due to the type of trails he would ride and not just race on. Maybe in the future I'll build another set of wheels for raceday, can make them sub 1300 grams w/o blowing the budget. Current wheels are around 1600 grams iirc.

Our Tideace is mostly SLX, BHS hubs, Sapim Laser spokes, WTB speedisc rims (not the lightest but very burly given the rider weight), NX cranks 32t, 1x 11-42t cassette with wolf expander, SID World Cup 26 QR fork, Reverb 100mm dropper, etc. W/o really trying hard bike is 22.5lbs with heavy SPD pedals. Though I suppose the fork is trying hard, but it was relatively cheap at 300 bucks so not that hard. All told cost was around $1800 ish. Compare this config with the Trailcraft at maximum kit, and I think I came out ahead.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Just thougth I would share with the group. This is the fork I put on my sons build. It has gone up in price, but this fork is light and very plush, even for him at 60lbs. I set the air at 20lb and it seems to work really well...

https://blueskycycling.com/collecti...x-sid-rl-solo-air-26-tapered-9mm-qr-fork-2014


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Mark194 said:


> Just thougth I would share with the group. This is the fork I put on my sons build. It has gone up in price, but this fork is light and very plush, even for him at 60lbs. I set the air at 20lb and it seems to work really well...
> 
> https://blueskycycling.com/collecti...x-sid-rl-solo-air-26-tapered-9mm-qr-fork-2014


Yea one can find some decent deals with a lil effort. The SID World Cup fork on our Tideace was $320 when typical used forks sell for $250.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Yup. The forks are easy to find when you do NOT need it. I know for me it's only when I need it that I can't find a deal. 

I was hoping to find a Reba for my daughters build but it didn't happen. And now I have found another new Revelation for cheap which I just picked up. So the new black Rev will go on the Tideace frame and the white one will be moved to my other daughters bike which is white. In reality it doesn't make much sense but after selling the Reba (dual air which is a PITA) on daughter #1's white bike and picking up the new black Rev for daughter #2, I'll be out $20. So I guess for some of us, it's a little more than just a hobby.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

If anyone is still looking, here is a good one.

Amazon has a RS Revelation XX World Cup for $242. The Rev's aren't the lightest but it does have the carbon crown which helps a bit. Listed weight is 1634 grams. It will need a new airshaft to be lowered to 100mm of travel though so that will add $25 or so. But it will still be under $275 for a sweet new fork.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product..._act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

^^Nice find.


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## PeopleForScience (May 15, 2012)

thesmokingman said:


> Use this for comparison.
> 
> Trailcraft Cycles
> 
> ...


We recently bought a Trailcraft Cycles Timber 26 "Special Build" which is $1599 and paid $79 shipping. 
Trailcraft Cycles

I followed this post but quickly realized I don't have the time nor bandwidth to scour the internet for 26" gear as forks and decent wheels do seem to be the hard part. So I guess we took the easy way - Timber 26 for $1678 delivered and the bike is 22.6 pounds with pedals ready to ride, nothing else to modify, no new wheels needed.

The Trailcraft came totally dialed and took 10 minutes to remove the wrapping and set up, almost too easy. It's got a fairly light Rock Shox 30 Gold fork which is 1630 grams but the best part is it uses the same Stans 26" Podium wheels which are 1290 grams as their Pro kit. Light wheels and low bike weight were important factors for me.

I know many people don't plan on resale value, but this is important because I don't have multiple kids like many to pass the bike down to. In our bike club there are a couple kids on Pineridge 24's. As one outgrew his last month there were two families literally battling it out for his Pineridge 24. So the resale value and second hand demand seems really good on Trailcrafts. Not sure a Tideace or other generic chinese carbon would fare the same demand in the future? Anyway, worth considering if resale is important and feel I got a great lightweight 26" bike based on my insane work/family balance schedule.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

PeopleForScience said:


> Not sure a Tideace or other generic chinese carbon would fare the same demand in the future? Anyway, worth considering if resale is important and feel I got a great lightweight 26" bike based on my insane work/family balance schedule.


You'd be surprised. I always get parents who stop at our car when loading up at the end of a race and they are amazed I found a carbon frame 26er and its been thru a season of NICA. They can always tell something is different about his bike, the geometry isn't mashed together and its sized right. It really is a universal problem for parents isn't it? That said, the frame cost me $300, it'll sell for just a lil bit off as there's no damage and its hit a tree, a boulder, who knows how many ties its been laid down, etc etc. The lacquer coat is surprisingly sturdy. And carbon will last almost forever as long as you don't hit it with a pointy object, especially in regards to corrosion. That said the parts are going to move to a larger frame or a FS frame as my son grows. The Tideace will probably go to his sister, but it doesn't really matter as it was very cheap and I'm know of plenty of families to pawn it off on when the time comes.

Regarding your choice, its a fine choice. I get the not wanting to build it up and the time issues and requirements. Its great to have a source like Trailcraft. For myself, I had better build his bike up by hand because I'm the team mechanic lol.

That said I have sourced a 26er full carbon FS frame in 15.5" for the summer season and park use. It took a lot of missteps along the way but I finally got a great frame. It's the FM076 model with the wide rectangular downtube, its very fat. They threw in both QR and thru-axle dropouts.

Here's the Tideace as it is today.









I'll be transferring all the parts from above to the frame below. The frame weighed 1890 grams w/o the shock. Hehe that is soo light! I've been busy applying the 3M, and waiting on a BB30 outboard as the Tideace is a BB92. I suspect it will weight just over 25lbs as the difference in the frame weight and addition of a shock is roughly 1k grams, or 2 1/3 lbs. The geometry is pretty current and its more trail oriented than xc racing which is what was asked for.
















Maybe I should make a new thread? This thread led me/us on this path, so many thanks!


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I still need to transfer the dropper and finish some misc things like apply reflective tape but its about done. I'm going to route the reverb hose thru the front mech internal route. It weighs about 24.5lbs as is. The dropper should push that to 25.5lbs ish.

Tideace
vs
FM076


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

That's awesome!! How does your boy fit on it and how tall is he? I'm looking for a 27.5" frame for my oldest daughter.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

I also made a quick fork swap. I found a RS Revelation in black so the white fork went on her sister's bike and she got the black fork. White bike - white fork, black bike - black fork. All is right in the color matching world that I live in.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

BXCc said:


> That's awesome!! How does your boy fit on it and how tall is he? I'm looking for a 27.5" frame for my oldest daughter.


He was 4'11 iirc or something around there. He said to me that there seemed to be more room compared to the Tideace. I carefully inspected the frame and I have to say I am quite pleased with the construction and fit. What frame are you looking at btw?



BXCc said:


> I also made a quick fork swap. I found a RS Revelation in black so the white fork went on her sister's bike and she got the black fork. White bike - white fork, black bike - black fork. All is right in the color matching world that I live in.


Hehe, yea I know the dilemma all too well.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

I'm looking at some 27.5" wheeled hardtails. They are great little riders but they don't need full squish at this point. I have a few in mind but nothing has stuck out as the perfect one yet. Looking for some certain measurements. 
CS length under 430mm
ETT over 560mm
HT length under 105
BB needs to be BSA or BB92
Price preferably under $350

I'm not sure which one I'll settle on, but I'm also in no rush. If anyone finds something, please feel free to share.

Here is another fork. RS Reba RL 120mm for $260.

RockShox Reba RL Maxle Lite Tapered Steerer Pushloc Remote Right Solo 120mm Air Fork, Black, 26-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EPGLRWU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_tHetzb9S60830


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## FowlerWheels (Nov 23, 2016)

BXCc said:


> I also made a quick fork swap. I found a RS Revelation in black so the white fork went on her sister's bike and she got the black fork. White bike - white fork, black bike - black fork. All is right in the color matching world that I live in.
> 
> View attachment 1143136


How tall is your daughter in this pic?

My son is 54" and I'm considering beginning a Tideance build as well. Currently on a Trek Superfly 24" and it's perfect but he's growing so fast.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

FowlerWheels said:


> How tall is your daughter in this pic?
> 
> My son is 54" and I'm considering beginning a Tideance build as well. Currently on a Trek Superfly 24" and it's perfect but he's growing so fast.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She is currently 53". If your boy is 54", he should be good to go. She has one 10mm spacer under a 40mm long stem installed with a straight seat post. Just to give you an idea on the fit.


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## Watarski (Nov 22, 2007)

Can anyone help me out with the headset (top and bottom cup) size? I just received the Tidace frame and while nitpicky, I'd like to pick up a Hope headset that matches the rest of my daughter's build. White bike, blue bits...I'm just the dad doing the building 
I know it's an integrated headset and it's tapered, but am having problems with the actual numbers. I think the top cup is an IS41/28.6 (Hope has type 3 and type 7?), and the bottom cup may be an IS52/40? Cheer in advance for any help - your builds and write ups are what pushed me over the edge to build my daughter's 26er!


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Watarski said:


> Can anyone help me out with the headset (top and bottom cup) size? I just received the Tidace frame and while nitpicky, I'd like to pick up a Hope headset that matches the rest of my daughter's build. White bike, blue bits...I'm just the dad doing the building
> I know it's an integrated headset and it's tapered, but am having problems with the actual numbers. I think the top cup is an IS41/28.6 (Hope has type 3 and type 7?), and the bottom cup may be an IS52/40? Cheer in advance for any help - your builds and write ups are what pushed me over the edge to build my daughter's 26er!


Have you seen the PDF hidden away on Hope website?
This for me finally solved the mystery from reading the specs on supplier headsets when I changed the headset on jnr s full suss.

http://www.hopetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/HOPE-HEADSET-FITTING-CHART.pdf

In my case I cheated as I had the LBS fit the headset. The labour cost was 1/4 the price of the parts and way cheaper than buying the proper tools. I was fitting a tapered steerer in a straight and wasn't 100% sure it would work. I paid £15 for the fitting and they cut the steerer and fitted star nut as well for free.

I guess I also may have paid £5 more in total for the headset than cheapest possible online price but ?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Started my project with help from BXCc. Same frame from Seller Airwolf. Should have it in about a month and will use the winter to slowly acquire parts. 

Now time to find a decent fork. If anyone finds a screaming deal on a good 26" air fork, please let me know. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Negotiator50 said:


> Started my project with help from BXCc. Same frame from Seller Airwolf. Should have it in about a month and will use the winter to slowly acquire parts.
> 
> Now time to find a decent fork. If anyone finds a screaming deal on a good 26" air fork, please let me know.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Awesome! If you're not in a rush, the fork and crankset on this one might be up for grabs this winter.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

BXCc said:


> Awesome! If you're not in a rush, the fork and crankset on this one might be up for grabs this winter.


Definitely would be interested. Give me a heads up when you are ready.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Would anyone have any insight into the Axel to Crown requirements of a rigid 26 fork if I were to put one on this frame? I am thinking about going to rigid route.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Negotiator50 said:


> Would anyone have any insight into the Axel to Crown requirements of a rigid 26 fork if I were to put one on this frame? I am thinking about going to rigid route.


The frame geometry is based on a 100mm 26" fork which is roughly 480mm. Figuring on 25 to 30mm of sag, I would probably stick with something between 450 and 480 to keep the numbers right.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Since we switched to the FM076 FS frame, I didn't know what to do with Tideace. After talking with my son we decided for xmas to convert the old Tideace to rigid, single speed with discs and with hybrid tires. That way he can tool around the neighborhood. I ordered a 26er rigid carbon fork and will transfer some parts to it. I'll probably run an Origin Ultim8 16t cog with a 42t chainring with another NX crankset. Makes it easier to drop into the existing BB92/GXP bottom bracket. I'll transfer the existing wheelset and build a new one for the FM076. Bought a cheap set of Shimano hydro brakes to go with it.


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## kabayan (Oct 25, 2004)

If anyone has built this frame up with a FD, could you post what FD worked for you? I have some 10speed parts. Was looking at a 2x10 drivetrain. Did you use a TS/BS BP FD? My son is coming from a 24" 2x9. TIA.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Sorry I can help with the FD selection process but what about just getting a Sunrace 11-42 10 speed cassette? It might be easier for your boy to only have one shifter.

SunRace | CSMX3


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

The SunRace 11-42 BXCc speaks of works great, I used to use one on my Enduro. Highly recommend 1x over 2x for kids and adults! They have a 11-50 out now too (SunRace), but you will need a newer derailuer or some hacks, but on a 26", I can't imagine 42T not being enough, with ease you can get a 30T front ring.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I second or third going 1x. Kids have a hard enough time keeping everything they've got going in focus so anything we can do to minimize their mental load is a plus.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Almost done. I had to rebuild the wheels also changing nipples to Sapim Secure Locks, swapped to a 38t chainring, the chinese carbon fork of course, and now waiting on tires to get here before I can finish up. Weight currently is at 12lbs. I've no idea what gearing will work for him, so I am starting off with 38x16t with an Origin8 Ultim8 cog w/ its dual carrier design to spread weight. The Tideace runs an older set of Rotaz hubs with alu body so no biteguard. The Origin8 cog should keep the alu body from getting torn up, crosses fingers.

*Tires came in today, threw them on and finished it up. I used Conti Town n Country tires. They are were the lightest tires for the price at 650g and 25 bucks. Total weight came to just over 18lbs with pedals and straps. Will snap some pics tomorrow.


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## JamesT-XYZ (Oct 26, 2014)

Just bought this frame for my 9yo off ebay. Hopefully it comes in soon so I can build it up before Christmas. 

Thanks for the great information on this thread. It helped me make a decision. Originally I was going to have his current AL frame sandblasted and powdercoated, but for more than half the price of a new frame it was a no brainer to just buy a new frame.

I also bought my 12 yo daughter a teal green carbon frame. It's going to be great to see their excited faces.

Ok, got to go, I'm off to shred some BCSP trail with my little rippers! 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## jc_live (Dec 21, 2016)

*Inseam?*

What is your daughters inseam?



FowlerWheels said:


> Looks awesome! I'm sure she's stoked to have that and will always appreciate your dedication to her and her hobbies!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

jc_live said:


> What is your daughters inseam?


Sorry for the late reply. Her barefoot inseam is 25 inches right now. She has grown some over the past year so I'm not sure what it was this past spring when she started riding it. Maybe 24 inches give or take.


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## JamesT-XYZ (Oct 26, 2014)

A Christmas miracle this year. Didn't think this frame would get here before Christmas but it showed up last night and I went to work on it! Had it done by 11 PM. Kiddos gonna freak! I'm impressed so far with the frame quality









Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

JamesT-XYZ said:


> A Christmas miracle this year. Didn't think this frame would get here before Christmas but it showed up last night and I went to work on it! Had it done by 11 PM. Kiddos gonna freak! I'm impressed so far with the frame quality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perfect timing then! Everyone loves new bike day, especially on Christmas. The build looks great.


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## JamesT-XYZ (Oct 26, 2014)

BXCc said:


> Perfect timing then! Everyone loves new bike day, especially on Christmas. The build looks great.


Thanks! Comes in at 20.5 lbs with out pedas. SLX 1x11 group, chiner bars and seatpost, Reba fork, crossmax slr wheels, Ra Ra tire front, Renegade rear.

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## brownfish (Apr 10, 2014)

Wow this is an amazing thread. I was researching these frames as an option for my son and am stoked. He is in 8th grade and is going to be racing his first NICA season this year. He is 4'11. Luckily anything he grows out of, will go to my daughter, who is also racing in 6th grade this year. He is presently riding a 2005 26" Specialized XC that I have converted to 1x9 with a 32" chainring and 11x42 cluster. He is great with this gearing at the time. It has a Fox 26" F100R airshock (upgrade from stock). Pic of bike attached (specs below)

We have been running into problems, mainly because he really wants a dropper, and with the interrupted seat tube, and his height, it's just not possible. Plus I think he'd be better off on something a bit newer.

So I was thinking of maybe moving him to a hardtail to race, then maybe getting a full suspension frame in the future (as he wants to rider park).

Here is my question: How much would I be able to swith over from the old bike? We are currently practicing, so I may be able to have his bike down for 3-5 days (can can use his brothers bike) but need to be able to get it up and running pretty quick. Then I can upgrade components as we go!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Upgrades from specs below:
Short Stem
Wide Bars
Fox 26" F100R Fork
1x9 drivetrain with 32" chainring and 11x42 cassette

Specs from Bikepedia (note some upgrades and fork have changed)

*Frame & Fork*


Frame ConstructionTIG-weldedFrame MaterialA1 Premium aluminumForkManitou Axel Comp, 100mmFork MateralAluminum/magnesium, single crownRear ShockX-Fusion air, 100mm
*Components*


Component GroupMountain MixBrakesetAluminum linear-pull brakes, Shimano M-420 leversShift LeversShimano DeoreFront DerailleurShimano Deore, bottom-pull/clamp-on 34.9mmRear DerailleurShimano Deore LXCranksetShimano, 22/32/44 teethPedalsAluminum platformBottom BracketShimano UN-25, 113mm spindleBB Shell Width68mm EnglishRear Cogs9-speed, 11 - 34 teethChainShimano CN-HG53, 1/2 x 3/32"SeatpostAluminum micro-adjustSaddleSpecialized BGHandlebar ExtensionsNot applicableHandlebarsXC mid riseHandlebar StemAluminumHeadset1 1/8" threadless sealed cartridge
*Wheels*


Wheel Size26" wheelsHubsFront: Specialized Disc, Rear: Shimano FH-M475 discRimsAluminum double wall, 32-holeFront Tire26 x 2.00" Specialized AdrenalineRear TireNot AvailableSpoke BrandStainless steel, 15ga. (1.8mm) straight gaugeSpoke NipplesBrass nipples


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## JamesT-XYZ (Oct 26, 2014)

Everything should swap over with the exception of his crankset and possibly his seatpost. What size is his current seatpost? As most have stated on here the sram NX crankset is a great option for about $100. You may also need a crown race reducer if his fork is not a tapered fork.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## brownfish (Apr 10, 2014)

His seatpost is a 30.9 (we were planning to replace that anyway). The fork is not tapered so I will have to deal with a crown reducer. When I do research and adapters going from straight to tapered, most say that you have to go with an adapter that matches the headset (same brand). Problem is, if I buy a frame with headset and BB included, then it might be hard to find and adapter. Any thoughts?


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## JamesT-XYZ (Oct 26, 2014)

brownfish said:


> His seatpost is a 30.9 (we were planning to replace that anyway). The fork is not tapered so I will have to deal with a crown reducer. When I do research and adapters going from straight to tapered, most say that you have to go with an adapter that matches the headset (same brand). Problem is, if I buy a frame with headset and BB included, then it might be hard to find and adapter. Any thoughts?


I went with the FSA crown race reducer and it matched up just fine with the supplied headset on the tideace frame. If you use the NX crank the supplied BB should work as well. I ordered a sram not realizing the frame came with the proper BB.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

brownfish said:


> Wow this is an amazing thread. I was researching these frames as an option for my son and am stoked.


Thanks. I'm glad it has helped others.

As James has already mentioned, most of everything should swap over. The NX cranks are definitely the best bang for the buck when it comes to shorter crank arms and the supplied BB should work with it. If not, a new BB should be under $30 for a Sram one, cheaper for an off brand. Depending on how the rear brake cable is routed, you may need a new length of hose if it isn't long enough. As for the headset reducer, this one should work.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bik...2f53c0b&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=2

But on another note, if he is already 4'11", you might want to consider a slightly bigger frame. My oldest daughter is currently the same height and we are building a new bike for over the course of this winter. Her old bike was pretty close in size to this Tideace 14" bike that I built for my youngest daughter. Most "small" sized bikes are made for people 5' and up. So if he is a typical kid, he will probably be there before you finish reading this post. Anyway, here is what I'm building over the winter. 
650B Mountain Bicycle Carbon Frame MTB 27.5er

Here is the thread I started for it.
http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5/cs-406-carbon-hardtail-build-1064596.html


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## brownfish (Apr 10, 2014)

Yea, I was thinking that I might want to go with a 15.5", as he already rides that size (although I still think it's a touch big). The biggest problem is I would have to buy everything all at once if I went the 27.5 route. He seems to look far better right now on a 26" bike fit wise. We have 2 boys, so two bikes. One is the 26" and the other is a Specialized 15.5" 27.5 Pitch that is a year or so old. Both are size small at 15.5". He likes the smaller 26" wheel size better right now. Plus most of the components on the Pitch are throw away. Don't get me wrong, they work for what they are and have held up pretty well so far, but it just bugs me that they could have easily and pretty inexpensively, put on a 9 speed cassette and a crankset that didn't have the chainrings riveted on. 

So I think my only real option is to go with a 15.5" 26er, so I can use all the spare parts from the donor bike (cost wise with 3 kids riding is tough, it really cuts into my bike budget). This also presents a problem with my daughters next bike, as she probably only has a year at most on her 24" bike (she just got a Diamondback Syncr 24" for Christmas). The 14" 26er would be such a great next bike for her. 

Another question, why did you decide to go with a Carbon Speed frame vs another Tideace?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

brownfish said:


> Another question, why did you decide to go with a Carbon Speed frame vs another Tideace?


Sorry for the late reply

There were a few reasons, none of them are significant but they all added up. It was between the CS-406 and the FM-036 from Tideace. The CS has a slightly longer TT, shorter CS's, and is BB92 or BSA. The Tideace was a bit cheaper but it would require me getting a new PF30 crankset which negates the price difference. Since cost was the very close, it came down to geometry and my preference for dealing with Peter at XMCarbonSpeed. I also ordered some rims at the same time so that helped differ the shipping costs.

You could always just run 26" wheels on a 27.5 inch frame. Just make sure the crankset is on the short side to allow for clearance. I would assume that 160's would do just fine. My daughters previous bike was a 26" wheeled 13.5" frame GT Avalanche that came with 170mm cranks. Not cool GT, not cool.


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

BXCc said:


> Sorry for the late reply
> 
> There were a few reasons, none of them are significant but they all added up. It was between the CS-406 and the FM-036 from Tideace. The CS has a slightly longer TT, shorter CS's, and is BB92 or BSA. The Tideace was a bit cheaper but it would require me getting a new PF30 crankset which negates the price difference. Since cost was the very close, it came down to geometry and my preference for dealing with Peter at XMCarbonSpeed. I also ordered some rims at the same time so that helped differ the shipping costs.
> 
> You could always just run 26" wheels on a 27.5 inch frame. Just make sure the crankset is on the short side to allow for clearance. I would assume that 160's would do just fine. My daughters previous bike was a 26" wheeled 13.5" frame GT Avalanche that came with 170mm cranks. Not cool GT, not cool.


Read though this thread as my son who's 7 is 4'6" and has out grown his 20" Walmart bike we take on the trails. Looking into a 24" and the weight of them at 33lbs is just ridiculous when he only weighs 55.

I'm curious to your thoughts on this 14" frame with 26" for his size. He's really skinny which is why I wanted to go as light as I can...and I have a 26" spare bike with a adult medium frame that's just to big by about 6-8in. The TT on that spare bike is about 586mm and he'd be pretty much leaning flat forward to reach (which I could adjust with stem, bars, seat to some extent)

I saw a few 16" frames on eBay or maybe Aliexpress...but was curious as to your thoughts.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

You can squeeze 4'6 on the Tideace. I did it with my kid, so did the OP. Your kids seems tall for 7, so you could get a lot of use out of the frame. Just make sure you get the short cranks so they are not over extending despite the large (to them) frame size. I'm partial to the Tideace because its a known quantity and quality. If I had to do it again, I would have skipped the 24in bike altogether.

Also, something to keep in mind is that the Tideace's headtube is real short. It may not fit Rockshox tapered Alu steerers. I believe Fox steerers use a quicker tapered to straight transition so they will work. Fox publishes their technical drawings on their forks so you can look up the tapered transition height to confirm. And Rockshox carbon steerers fit w/o issue since they have a very short taper. If you have a straight steerer then you can use a conversion crown race and be done.


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

thesmokingman said:


> You can squeeze 4'6 on the Tideace. I did it with my kid, so did the OP. Your kids seems tall for 7, so you could get a lot of use out of the frame. Just make sure you get the short cranks so they are not over extending despite the large (to them) frame size. I'm partial to the Tideace because its a known quantity and quality. If I had to do it again, I would have skipped the 24in bike altogether.
> 
> Also, something to keep in mind is that the Tideace's headtube is real short. It may not fit Rockshox tapered Alu steerers. I believe Fox steerers use a quicker tapered to straight transition so they will work. Fox publishes their technical drawings on their forks so you can look up the tapered transition height to confirm. And Rockshox carbon steerers fit w/o issue since they have a very short taper. If you have a straight steerer then you can use a conversion crown race and be done.


Great - I pulled the trigger on the tideace 14". I have a set of 26" that I plan to put on it and an older lefty fork with a straight steerer kit to allow it to fit any bike with a head tube less than 138mm length/height (I've done it on another).

I was looking at some 145mm cranks to run on it...


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Nice, grats on the pulling the trigger.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

jbsmith said:


> Great - I pulled the trigger on the tideace 14". I have a set of 26" that I plan to put on it and an older lefty fork with a straight steerer kit to allow it to fit any bike with a head tube less than 138mm length/height (I've done it on another).
> 
> I was looking at some 145mm cranks to run on it...


Nice! Sounds like a great plan. And yes, 4'6" is doable, especially since he will only keep growing. I'm currently running a 2017 RS SID RL with a tapered steerer on the frame and it fits just fine.

You should be able to get it under 23 pounds without much hassle or major expense. I'm going to be taking the original 150ish mm cranks off of the bike to run some 155's soon if those would interest you. They are the Stylo cranks that I cut down and tapped for the original build.


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

BXCc said:


> Nice! Sounds like a great plan. And yes, 4'6" is doable, especially since he will only keep growing. I'm currently running a 2017 RS SID RL with a tapered steerer on the frame and it fits just fine.
> 
> You should be able to get it under 23 pounds without much hassle or major expense. I'm going to be taking the original 150ish mm cranks off of the bike to run some 155's soon if those would interest you. They are the Stylo cranks that I cut down and tapped for the original build.


Sweet! Sent you a pm on here on the crank.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

Probably not technically the correct place to post this question...but how do I know if I need a long or short/medium cage rear der? I'm putting a 11-40 cassette on, haven't decided on the front ring yet (presumably that goes into this question). Going to use Shimano XT or XTR rear der.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

jbsmith said:


> Probably not technically the correct place to post this question...but how do I know if I need a long or short/medium cage rear der? I'm putting a 11-40 cassette on, haven't decided on the front ring yet (presumably that goes into this question). Going to use Shimano XT or XTR rear der.


What speed? If its 10spd you'll need the long cage and a longer b-screw or Goatlink. If its 11spd, the GS or med cage can run up to 46t in 1x operation. I'm actually running a GS cage with a Goatlink in order to run a 50t cog, w/o issue.


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

thesmokingman said:


> What speed? If its 10spd you'll need the long cage and a longer b-screw or Goatlink. If its 11spd, the GS or med cage can run up to 46t in 1x operation. I'm actually running a GS cage with a Goatlink in order to run a 50t cog, w/o issue.


11sp. So is it only based on the largest cog on the cassette in terms of cage length? I've fitted many chains in the past by wrapping large-large, so it would seem the front chainring size would have some impact as well..no??


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

jbsmith said:


> 11sp. So is it only based on the largest cog on the cassette in terms of cage length? I've fitted many chains in the past by wrapping large-large, so it would seem the front chainring size would have some impact as well..no??


I'm not sure what you are asking? The front ring will determine your chain length obviously but not the RD's range. Look up Shimano's spec on your RD of choice, it will list what it supports so you can see. Both long and med cage RD support 46t max in 1x, 42t in 2x, etc etc. The difference is in the number of front rings. The med only goes to 2x, and the long cage goes to 3x.


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

thesmokingman said:


> I'm not sure what you are asking? The front ring will determine your chain length obviously but not the RD's range. Look up Shimano's spec on your RD of choice, it will list what it supports so you can see. Both long and med cage RD support 46t max in 1x, 42t in 2x, etc etc. The difference is in the number of front rings. The med only goes to 2x, and the long cage goes to 3x.


Got it - I think . This has always confused me even after reading the spec info. I always thought the longer the cage the more chain it could handle ...so if my front ring was say a 42, and my largest in the back was a 45 could the short (gs) still work - can it handle that long of a chain? Compared to say a 30t up front?

So when you say it can handle 45t in the cassette I get confused since the larger the front ring requires a longer chain and thus a shorter cage can only take up so much chain slack (when shifted to the higher/less teeth gear)

Thanks for your help-I hope this helps clear up where I get confused on the ratings of the RDs

(By the way...I don't plan to run a 42t chainring up front...just said that to illustrate how I get confused.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

jbsmith said:


> Got it - I think . This has always confused me even after reading the spec info. I always thought the longer the cage the more chain it could handle ...so if my front ring was say a 42, and my largest in the back was a 45 could the short (gs) still work - can it handle that long of a chain? Compared to say a 30t up front?
> 
> So when you say it can handle 45t in the cassette I get confused since the larger the front ring requires a longer chain and thus a shorter cage can only take up so much chain slack (when shifted to the higher/less teeth gear)
> 
> ...


never mind - I'm dumb.

If you have a 1x setup which I plan to do, then the der only needs to be able to handle the difference in smallest - largest of the rear cassette since the front doesn't change. so in my case a 11-40 is 29t which is well within the 45t capacity of nearly any der...so yeah short it'll be.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

The front ring doesn't really matter in 1x. Since you're using 1x you ONLY figure the difference between the cassette's largest cog and smallest cog. If you were going 2x/3x, then you'd add the cassette cog differences to the front ring difference to arrive at total capacity.

In other words with 1x ya ignore the front ring.

*Oh looks like you got it just as I hit post.


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## eric0919 (May 19, 2008)

I thought at one point I saw this frame with a 142x12 rear axle. Any way to convert it?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

eric0919 said:


> I thought at one point I saw this frame with a 142x12 rear axle. Any way to convert it?


Not that I know of. I know it wasn't an option at the time that I purchased it and the dropouts are molded in.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

It'd be a lot easier to get QR end caps for your hub than the alternative.


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## eric0919 (May 19, 2008)

I'm still riding a 26" and my plan was to transfer parts to the Tideace and get me something new. Wheels are 142X12 and not convertible and i'm afraid the 2011 Revelation will have to long of a taper for the head tube. I haven't checked that yet though.

Not looking promising.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

eric0919 said:


> I'm still riding a 26" and my plan was to transfer parts to the Tideace and get me something new. Wheels are 142X12 and not convertible and i'm afraid the 2011 Revelation will have to long of a taper for the head tube. I haven't checked that yet though.
> 
> Not looking promising.


Why wouldn't the Revelation fit? The white fork installed in the first post is a Revelation RCT3 for 27.5" wheels with a tapered steerer and it fit fine. If I recall correctly, it was from 2012ish as it was pre-black stanchions. The frame currently has a tapered Sid with boost axle installed and that fits fine as well.


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

My frame is finally stateside - took about 3-4 weeks, but there was that typhoon/hurricane that messed a few things up.

Here's what I'm building....

*Frame:* Tideace FM-M001 14" frame 3K weave in matte finish
*Fork: *Cannondale Lefty Speed 100
*Grips:* ODI Lock-ons
*Bar:* run of the mill alloy bar (might Get a china carbon)
*Stem:* Cannondale 
*Seatpost:* 31.6 straight post alloy
*Saddle:* Fizik titanium rails (was laying around, might change out)
*Brakes:* Shimano SLX Hydro's
*Rotors:* Shimano Ice-tech 6-bolt 160MM
*Wheels:* Stans Crest MK3
*Rear Hub:* DT Swiss 350
*Front Hub:* Cannondale Lefty
*Crank:* SRAM GXP 1.1 150mm
*Chainring:* 32T narrow-wide (may go down to 30T)
*Bottom Bracket:* SRAM GXP BB92
*Pedals:* cheapo specialized plastic things or RaceFace Chester's I have laying around but not sure if I want to run the studded pedals on a kids bike with no shin/knee guards)
*Shifter:* Shimano XTR M9000
*Rear Derailleur:* Shimano XT M8000
*Cassette:* Shimano XT M8000 11-40 11 speed
*Chain:* Shimano XTR M9000


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Has anyone been able to source a derailleur hanger for these tideance frames locally?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

I tried with no luck. I ended up getting 2 spares from Tideace for around $10 if I remember correctly.



Negotiator50 said:


> Has anyone been able to source a derailleur hanger for these tideance frames locally?


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

BXCc said:


> I tried with no luck. I ended up getting 2 spares from Tideace for around $10 if I remember correctly.


I'm not sure if it's possible with a no-name carbon but I've had good luck taking a picture of the hanger and submitting it to Wheels MFG...they've then identified the replacement.


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

jbsmith said:


> My frame is finally stateside - took about 3-4 weeks, but there was that typhoon/hurricane that messed a few things up.
> 
> Here's what I'm building....
> 
> ...


Just wanted to post an image of the final product...somewhat of a bad picture due to the shadow since I took it at 9am.

Also updating some of the specs...

*Pedals* - raceface chesters (I might take the pins out until he learns well or buy soccer shin guards)

*Bar* - Upgrading to a Chinese carbon 660mm
*Seatpost* - Chinese carbon
*Stem* - shortening to a 40-50mm stem. Reach is too far right now with the 110mm I had laying around.


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

BXCc said:


> Bar: Chiner carbon flat bar 660 wide


BXCc - what brand Chinese carbon bar did you use? I'm considering getting one and a seatpost, but with so many of them out there I'm wondering if there's any to stay away from?

I'd hate for a hard hit/bad landing to snap off half of the bar (but I hear that's really unlikely even with a Chinese carbon)


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

jbsmith said:


> BXCc - what brand Chinese carbon bar did you use? I'm considering getting one and a seatpost, but with so many of them out there I'm wondering if there's any to stay away from?
> 
> I'd hate for a hard hit/bad landing to snap off half of the bar (but I hear that's really unlikely even with a Chinese carbon)


I've bought two from here.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...188.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.71a54c4dNqUjPx

As for the seatpost, I've had an issue with the finish coming off of a generic one and causing creaking so now my kids run these. Weight and cost is about the same. You just can't use them with carbon railed saddles.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-B...hash=item36376e9869:m:mo8wrnv4fuZKXddmWT9thrg


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Hey Everyone -

I just ordered a 15 inch 27.5 version on this frame, and will be selling the frame, fork and wheels. Rock Shox sid, 100mm and Stans Crest wheels built by Dave speed dream, tires included. Bike is great shape, son is almot 5 foot, can still ride it comfortably, but just wanting to try the 27.5 for his upcoming XC season.

Will be looking to get around $800 for frame, fork, wheels/tires, headset, BB and stem. Let me know if you are interested. Pictures of bike in the thread.

Click the attachment below...

Thanks
Mark



Mark194 said:


> Finished my sons bike a couple of weeks ago, and he is loving it! Thinking about taking thr fork down to a 80mm until he gets a little taller and we can rasie the set height. Seems like the front end is wandering on him during the climbs. Thinking the 80mm might add a little weight to the front.
> 
> View attachment 1124733


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## tony110672 (Jun 6, 2007)

Just built one up for my 9 year old. He is big at 4'11 and the fit is perfect. about 20 pounds. All new parts but found some good deals. Total cost under $1500. He has a few rides on it and loves it. Insane that he has access to a bike like this compared to what I had to ride 40 years ago.

Tideace 14" frame
Manitou markhor 100mm fork
Ebay carbon 26" wheels with Novatec hubs
shimano xt 11 speed drivetrain 11-46 cassette
mavic ikon 26 x 2.2 tires 
sram level tl brakes
SDG jr pro kit(seat, bars, grips,bars)
Whisky 50mm stem
trailcraft 165mm cranks
ebay carbon seatpost


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## SoFL (May 1, 2020)

tony110672 said:


> Just built one up for my 9 year old. He is big at 4'11 and the fit is perfect. about 20 pounds. All new parts but found some good deals. Total cost under $1500. He has a few rides on it and loves it. Insane that he has access to a bike like this compared to what I had to ride 40 years ago.
> 
> Tideace 14" frame
> Manitou markhor 100mm fork
> ...


Looks great, what bottom bracket did you use with the Trailcraft cranks? Also, nice color, where did you find it?


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## tony110672 (Jun 6, 2007)

tideace will paint these frames all kinds of different colors. i got this one thru an ebay vendor but there are alot of sellers and all kinds of cool colors. The trailcraft can use just a regular shimano 24mm pressfit bottom bracket. The set comes with a treaded bottom bracket but the spindle is just like shimano's slx/xt/xtr spindle.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Just an update on the original post, 4 years later the bike is still going strong. It's a little too small now so it's being cleaned up and listed for sale if anyone is interested. The fork has been swapped to a 100mm SID RL from 2017 (all black). The front wheel has a Wolftooth boostinator adapter and the wheel was redished to accommodate.


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## StanfordRacer (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm looking to build up a Tideace FM-M001, but the BB92 bottom bracket might be a negative for me because I already have a nice 152mm square taper crankset.

So first question, does anyone know if the Seraph / Tantan FM003 here is the same frame, or more precisely the same mold? According to that listing, they sell it BB92 or BSA, which is a big plus for me. Weight is a little heavier than what Tideace quotes, but that is presumably just some extra carbon somewhere.

Next question: for those with the FM-M001, what is the width of the chainstays where a 152mm crank would hit? In other words, how narrow of q-factor can I go with this frame? I'd love it if someone could post a photo like I did in this post.

Depending on the answer to the 2nd question, I might decide to go with a new crankset anyways and just get the Tideace with a BB92 bottom bracket.

Thanks--I'm looking forward to this build!


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

StanfordRacer said:


> I'm looking to build up a Tideace FM-M001, but the BB92 bottom bracket might be a negative for me because I already have a nice 152mm square taper crankset.
> 
> So first question, does anyone know if the Seraph / Tantan FM003 here is the same frame, or more precisely the same mold? According to that listing, they sell it BB92 or BSA, which is a big plus for me. Weight is a little heavier than what Tideace quotes, but that is presumably just some extra carbon somewhere.
> 
> ...


To me, it really looks like it's the same mold as the Tideace one. The manufacturer can install any bb shell that they like so I'd check with them to make sure it's doable with the BSA. I'll try to take a measurement tomorrow and see what it looks like.


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## StanfordRacer (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks BXCc -- that's what I figured, there seems to be just a single mold everyone uses. I appreciate you checking that measurement, though I'm in no hurry.

Has anyone tried running one of these frames with a 80mm fork? I've got a nice, light 80mm 2001 SID SL that I'm hoping to use. A-C is 451mm.


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## atothez2 (Nov 4, 2020)

I am about to try exactly what you are asking. i just got notice that the frame has been painted and is shipping out. 

Also, I ordered a rebuild kit for my older rock shox SID (80mm) that should be coming in today. going to see how it works out for the kiddo.


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## godzuki26 (Mar 29, 2007)

I have been referencing this very same thread for a some time now to build something that properly fits a smaller rider. There is quite a bit of useful information on this thread I must say. I then discovered through this thread the company Trailcraft which specializes in bikes for kids. What a great concept and great company. I really like their flagship hardtail frame built using this Fm-M001 open mold frame with SRAM AXS wireless shifting. Without pedals, the build goes for 19.29 lbs. I thought I would do my version with AXS shifting and drop more weight. Just because you are little doesn't mean your loved one should not get to use wireless shifting right?


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## godzuki26 (Mar 29, 2007)

Not a bad weight with Eagle AXS and 12 speed drivetrain. Can still go lighter. Mine includes pedals, rims wrapped with Gorilla tape, and Effeto Mariposa sealant. Take off all that and the bike is under 15lbs.


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## StanfordRacer (Sep 29, 2008)

Wow, that's impressively light! More details please--what fork, wheels, cranks? And what integrated handlebar is that with a short stem?


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## godzuki26 (Mar 29, 2007)

I had a lot of old parts from back in the 26er days that I moved over to this frame. Since it is wireless, I also drilled out the derailleur cable stops. The frame was also sanded down and vapor coated with 2K matte clear.

The fork is a DT Swiss XRC race with manual lockout conversion. I sanded it to expose the carbon crown and fork legs. With carbon steerer cut, the fork was 1099 grams. The wheels are Stans ZTR Olympic rims built on Tune King/Kong hubs with Sapim Superspokes. They weigh 1193 grams. The barstem is a Gemini Propus 50mm. The brakes are Formula R1 Racing with all blue titanium fittings at 328 grams for the pair. The cranks are sanded e*Thirteen XCXRace cranks. They weigh 395 grams with a 32T chainring. The seatpost saddle is a Tune Speedneedle shell bonded to a seatpost by Berk that weights 134 grams. Pedals are KCNC knife platforms with Ti spindles at 137 grams for the pair. I’m not done yet and still plan to lighten it more.


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## godzuki26 (Mar 29, 2007)

This didn't last long. The little one was going up a sustained 8% grade hill in the 46Tooth cog in the back when the derailleur hangar ripped off the frame while taking a piece of the carbon frame with it. The frame is all done on the first ride. I am thinking that the torque caused by a 50 tooth cassette is not designed for a 135mm quick release rear drop out. Does anybody have any thoughts to this? Or is this just a faulty frame? Returning the frame is out of the question since I modified it. However, my modifications have nothing to do with the derailleur hanger breaking off the frame.


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## godzuki26 (Mar 29, 2007)

Damn pity this build was pretty sweet and fit a smaller rider and fit her perfectly.


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## bikingben8000 (Nov 7, 2020)

Sorry to hear about that man / gutted. Thats the first time I’ve seen it. I see a lot of folks have been going for 27.5 inch forks; have they worked out well? Is the 100mm SID RL from 2017 also 27.5? Seems they didnt manufacture it in 26”..


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Did the derailleur bind up or did the dropout just fold and crack without the drivetrain binding? If the derailleur didn't bind, I don't know how this couldn't be a warranty issue. Even if it did bind, I would be reaching out to the frame manufacturer. Do these frames come with a warranty?


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## godzuki26 (Mar 29, 2007)

It is not a 27.5 Fork. It is a DT Swiss XRC fork in 26.

Upon further inspection, this had to be a faulty frame. The derailleur did not bind and I have never experienced the derailleur hanger ripping off the carbon drop out by simply spinning up a hill. It was not a standing sprinting type of effort. It was a high cadence seated spin. I won’t be contacting the seller because I voided the 2 year warranty by sanding the frame down and drilling out all the unneeded cable stops for mechanical.

This frame was a perfect fit so I had to buy another one. The first frame was purchased from Airwolfcarbon. The second replacement frame has been purchased through Tideace. I’ll use the damaged frame to practice converting the frame for internal routing for the rear brake hose using a carbon repair kit. Thus, I’ll be removing all the external cable stops and make this a fancy kid bike. I’ll eventually make a separate thread, I don’t want to hijack this wonderful thread.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

godzuki26 said:


> I am thinking that the torque caused by a 50 tooth cassette is not designed for a 135mm quick release rear drop out.


My kid raced one of these for a NICA season and nothing like this every happened so I'm not sure its a design flaw. The drop out area isn't a place that could have voids so the chances of a defect there are low as far as voids are concerned.

Two things stick out to me on your bike, the derailleur to ground height and a possible bad shift, or both putting aside chain tension/length. With it on the middle gears there's only a few inches and fully extended... yea that's not reassuring especially with those low pro skinny tires. Going to a 50t on a 26er is really pushing it due to loss of cage distance to the ground. Did you confirm this before the ride? We need to be aware that a 50t will put the cage awfully close to the ground and the rider needs to be aware of this as well. That's what I though looking at your pics.


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## bikingben8000 (Nov 7, 2020)

Good luck on the next build Godzuki / 2nd try is always better ;-). Couple of Q’s on the components you used (I’m building one too, from BXT). what length is the eThirteen crank? i cannot find it in less than 170mm. And which tires are they? They look pretty low profile / that would help lower the BB a bit, as my daughter is only 4ft4..


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## godzuki26 (Mar 29, 2007)

Yes that is correct e*13 cranks don’t get shorter than 170mm. The only Weightweenie type of crank that you can do custom lengths for are Lightnings. Realistically this frame size should be running 155mm cranks. The tires are Stans Crow 2.2mm width. They are discontinued. 

I examined the derailleur and there are no marks on the derailleur cage telling me that it did not jam into the spokes. There is also no marks indicating that the cage bottomed out on the ground. Possibly, there was a shift during the uphill from the 46Tooth to the 50Tooth that caused the derailleur to bind? I don’t know.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Do you remember how much chain tension there was?

Hmm, something you could bring up is the hanger itself. It should have snapped/bent saving the the frame. It is kind of weird that it didn't which leads me to wonder what directional forces were applied to it so that it sheared off in what looks like some horizontal plane...


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## Dramrides (Dec 13, 2020)

Old thread I know but I can’t find any other xsmall frames. Can someone share geometry for the fm-m001? 
would also appreciate leads on more modern frames this one been around 6 years. Daughter is 4’8” moms only 5’3” so this could be the bike she doesn’t outgrow.


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## StanfordRacer (Sep 29, 2008)

This post has the geometry.

I just ordered one from BXT on Aliexpress. I was unable to find anything newer or similar despite a lot of looking. My biggest issue with the FM-M001 is the BB92 bottom bracket. Kid-length cranks are hard enough to find right now in-stick in square taper, and nearly impossible to find in-stock in a 2-piece crank as required for BB92. I might have to resort to shortening an adult crankset.

The BB height of the FM-M001 also looks to be higher than would be ideal for kids with short cranks. Compare photos of the Trailcraft Timber and the Timber Carbon, which is a FM-M001. Trailcraft knows their stuff, so I'm assuming the preferred geometry for kids is what they designed into their alloy frame, not what they were stuck with using the FM-M001.

Finally, at 69.5 degrees, the headtube angle is steeper than what a more modern design probably would be. (The alloy Trailcraft Timber is 68 degrees).

My plan is to initially try using a 24" rear wheel and 26" front wheel. That will lower the BB and slacken the headtube angle. It's easy for me to test out since we already have a 24" wheel from the current bike.

Despite those little drawbacks, it looks like the best frame available and I'm looking forward to receiving it and building it up for my son.


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## Dramrides (Dec 13, 2020)

Thanks I was hoping to find a 27.5 is xsmall, but may just go with the m001. I’ve had no luck searching. I don’t think she’ll care much about geometry as long as she can turn the wrenches.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

Sorry to raise an old thread from the past. Wondering if anyone has tried angleset headsets to slacken the HA a bit on this frame? That's one of the things I'm concerned about...69.5 is quite steep especially as my kids have been around 67-68 on their current and last bike. 9point8 makes a Slack-R for IS42/IS52 cups, and looks like they might have one that will fit the Headtube length of 95mm. If this might not work I'll slap a longer fork on there and sacrifice STA and BB height.

Alpha Slack-R Kit 1.5° – 9point8


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

That's a pretty slick unit. It looks like it would work fine. Might be worth a shot at $99. Another option is to check with Trailcraft as they use this frame Timber 26 carbon. They might have a bit more insight from their users.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

Yeah, I decided to go for it. And, I ordered the frame from BXT on eBay just now as well. The geometry was the stickler for me so being able to slack it out 1.5-2 degrees will put it right under 68HA which I think will ride well.


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## Neseth (Nov 4, 2009)

StanfordRacer said:


> This post has the geometry.
> 
> I just ordered one from BXT on Aliexpress. I was unable to find anything newer or similar despite a lot of looking. My biggest issue with the FM-M001 is the BB92 bottom bracket. Kid-length cranks are hard enough to find right now in-stick in square taper, and nearly impossible to find in-stock in a 2-piece crank as required for BB92. I might have to resort to shortening an adult crankset.
> 
> ...


How long did it take to get from the time you ordered, and after it was marked as shipped? 

Did it come with the headset as well?


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

Neseth said:


> How long did it take to get from the time you ordered, and after it was marked as shipped?
> 
> Did it come with the headset as well?


Completely obsolete info, imo. The lockdowns and shipping backups in china right now represent a completely different situation than a year ago. There are shipping estimates on the aliexpress listings. Right now there is nearly zero chance it will come sooner than that date. Mine came with bottom bracket, headset, and seat clamp.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

Check where they are located, China is a huge country...Shenzen came out of lockdown at the end of March. If the vendor is located near Shanghai you might be SOL.


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## FHS (8 mo ago)

Hi! I'm new to this forum and new to mtb in general. I've put together most of the parts for my daughter's build based on Trailcraft's carbon fiber Timber, just a lot more budget. 

Is there anything to the earlier posts about 50t cassette compatibility with the fm-001 frame? I went with a 11 sp Deore with a 50t cassette mostly because Trailcraft also goes with a 50t cassette. 

Thanks!


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

Just a quick update that the frame from BXT took about a month to arrive (received yesterday). Other parts I ordered from China took between 1-2 weeks. All were from the Shenzen area. I had ordered non-bike parts from Shanghai (photo book for Mother's Day), but only realized it was Shanghai until it was too late. Book ordered 4/21, they still haven't even started on it due to lockdown. So again, look where in China you are ordering from, it may be quick, or it may never ship!


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## FHS (8 mo ago)

I've got parts on a plane from Beijing and parts that have cleared customs in HK. Apparently my frame is still being painted.


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## Neseth (Nov 4, 2009)

yakswak said:


> Just a quick update that the frame from BXT took about a month to arrive (received yesterday). Other parts I ordered from China took between 1-2 weeks. All were from the Shenzen area. I had ordered non-bike parts from Shanghai (photo book for Mother's Day), but only realized it was Shanghai until it was too late. Book ordered 4/21, they still haven't even started on it due to lockdown. So again, look where in China you are ordering from, it may be quick, or it may never ship!


Did your tracking number work, they gave me a UPS tracking, but it says it's still waiting for the package to be delivered. But they sent me an email with a different tracking number, but I can't figure out which service the tracking number is supposed to work with.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

Neseth said:


> Did your tracking number work, they gave me a UPS tracking, but it says it's still waiting for the package to be delivered. But they sent me an email with a different tracking number, but I can't figure out which service the tracking number is supposed to work with.


Nope UPS only worked once packaged arrived in the states. For a long time it felt like the frame was MIA. But once stateside I started to get updates via UPS


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

FHS said:


> Hi! I'm new to this forum and new to mtb in general. I've put together most of the parts for my daughter's build based on Trailcraft's carbon fiber Timber, just a lot more budget.
> 
> Is there anything to the earlier posts about 50t cassette compatibility with the fm-001 frame? I went with a 11 sp Deore with a 50t cassette mostly because Trailcraft also goes with a 50t cassette.
> 
> Thanks!


I ran deore 11 speed 11-51t on 24" wheels with no issues other than that she never used the low gears, and thus it seemed like wasted weight. The tighter gearing afforded by the present 11-36t aluminum cassette also seems a waste since she tends to shift gears two at a time, but more speeds is cooler in the kid's mind.


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

FHS said:


> I've got parts on a plane from Beijing and parts that have cleared customs in HK. Apparently my frame is still being painted.


More likely waiting for enough orders of stuff in that color to justify running that color in the paint booth.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

rocwandrer said:


> I ran deore 11 speed 11-51t on 24" wheels with no issues other than that she never used the low gears, and thus it seemed like wasted weight. The tighter gearing afforded by the present 11-36t aluminum cassette also seems a waste since she tends to shift gears two at a time, but more speeds is cooler in the kid's mind.


I went with 11-42T Sunrace 10speed with a 28T front for weight savings and because my daughter never uses her 36T on her 24” bike now. I never use the lowest 51T when I’m riding my 29er hardtail either (I do use the bailout gear when riding the heavy trail bike though!). 

I’ll find out if it may have been smarter to go with 30 or 32 front with a bigger range in back…


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## FHS (8 mo ago)

rocwandrer said:


> I ran deore 11 speed 11-51t on 24" wheels with no issues other than that she never used the low gears, and thus it seemed like wasted weight. The tighter gearing afforded by the present 11-36t aluminum cassette also seems a waste since she tends to shift gears two at a time, but more speeds is cooler in the kid's mind.


Thank you!

I have no idea how this is going to go. It's been 3 years since we got her the 20" Raleigh Jazzi so she's definitely big enough for a 26er now, and will be even more so by the time I get it built this summer. She hardly touches her hand brake and has never touched a shifter. Still, daddy thought, why settle for 8 gears when you can have 11 on the same wheelset?

Thanks again!


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## FHS (8 mo ago)

yakswak said:


> I went with 11-42T Sunrace 10speed with a 28T front for weight savings and because my daughter never uses her 36T on her 24” bike now. I never use the lowest 51T when I’m riding my 29er hardtail either (I do use the bailout gear when riding the heavy trail bike though!).
> 
> I’ll find out if it may have been smarter to go with 30 or 32 front with a bigger range in back…


I went 30 front with the bigger range in the back. I'm so new to this 1x thing, and the growing daughter thing for that matter.


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## FHS (8 mo ago)

Neseth said:


> Did your tracking number work, they gave me a UPS tracking, but it says it's still waiting for the package to be delivered. But they sent me an email with a different tracking number, but I can't figure out which service the tracking number is supposed to work with.


If I may, if you haven't used it, 17Track is good for most services that haven't reached stateside yet. It does a pretty good job tracking anything moving through China. If you're really up for the frustration of seeing a package sitting at a distribution center near Shenzen, or Beijing, or Hangzhou for days on end, I recommend it.


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

FHS said:


> I went 30 front with the bigger range in the back. I'm so new to this 1x thing, and the growing daughter thing for that matter.


Different kids are different. For mine, eventually we'll get to situations where she can spin out a 30/11 with 24+ tires, and she will actually do that, but we are not there yet.

Our 11-36 with a 26t front is over 1 lb lighter than 11-51 with 30t front and she bare ever uses the highest gear, and infrequently uses the lowest (she just leaves me in the dust on the climbs or gets off and pushes.)

Not super hard to change, nor critical to do so, if you find your kid doesn't use the gearing as intended.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

So we just finished building the bike...not a Tideace as the thread title indicates, but a BXT. Some notables comments about the build compared to others in this thread:


BXT Frame: Appears the same as the Tideace, as it should given it's the same mold. Weight came in at 1200g, which is just within range of the advertised weight (which is 1100g +/- 100g). No visible blemishes. Would have been nice to see larger openings on the downtube for cabling w/option to use different inserts, and if they included some rubber grommets for the port I didn't use. 
Slack'R Angle Adjust: I didn't like the stock 69.5deg HA as indicated previously in this thread, so I went ahead and installed a Slack'R from 9point8. The install was a pain, I'm sure related to user error, but this was the most time consuming part of my build even though YouTubers who post about the install say how fast and easy it is! End result is approx 67.5deg HA on the bike (1.5deg + 10mm A-C increase due to bottom cup). 
Dropper Post: The BrandX Ascend Kid dropper post is cheap ($100) and works well at my kids weight (65lbs). It's only a 70mm drop but it's a nice clean install. There's plenty of room above the BB Cup to route the housing, and I used the port on the downtube that was designed for the front derailleur housing (One caveat is that the frame comes from factory with clear cable guides that route the right port to rear derailleur side, which is a bit annoying. It was easy enough to not use the clear cable guide in order to route the way I wanted for both the dropper and the rear derailleur housing).
Fork: Went with the "light rider" tuned Reba 26" (A2, 100mm) fork. First Rockshox fork in a while, the last one with a Dual Air over 10yrs ago so I had to do a few internet searches on how to equalize the air chambers while pumping up/down. Seems to work well for curbs around the house, we'll go off some drops and general trail riding soon to see how it handles. 
Tires: Went with Nobby Nic in front and Rocket Ron in back, both 2.25. The bike is more of a trail build (hence the HA adjustment) and not XC, so having the Nic's in front vs double Rocket Ron to save 100g was an ok compromise.
Total Weight: 23.2lbs with pedals & 22.4lbs without pedals (feels strange reporting weight w/o pedals but have to match what manufacturers do, I guess). The weight came in right where I thought...notable weight additions to this build compared to others in thread are the Slack'R angle adjust (+100g) & Dropper (+300g).



PartDetailsFrameBXT Carbon 26" FrameHeadset AdjSlack'R Angle Adjust -1.5deg AdjustHeadsetIncludedBBIncludedForkReba 26" 100mm 15x100TAWheelsBWW XC SL 26" 1480gCranksPrevelo 140mm/28TRear DerDeore M5120 (10spd)ShifterDeore M4100 (10spd)CassetteSunrace CSMX3 11-42 Cassette (10spd)ChainShimano CN-HG54 10 Speed ChainBrakesMT401Brake RotorsAshima Ai2 180F/160RStemWake 31.8BarRaceface Evolve 720mmx31.8SeatpostBrand-X Ascend Kid Dropper (70mm)SeatSGD Jr - BluePedalsJenson Brand "Foundation"TiresRocket Ron + Nobby Nic (26x2.25)GripsJenson Brand "Foundation"


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

What did it all cost in the end?


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

More than I originally planned due to scope creep! All of my parts were bought new except for the bar, although I did scour the likes of eBay & international sellers (like Chainreaction for the tires, etc) to get the best pricing possible (including S&H).


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## Neseth (Nov 4, 2009)

Has your child ridden with those 140mm cranks yet? My son has 140mm cranks right now with his current 24" wheeled bike and the cranks look too small for the length of his legs when I ride behind him. I ordered some Suntour Zeroed 152mm cranks for this build.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Neseth said:


> Has your child ridden with those 140mm cranks yet? My son has 140mm cranks right now with his current 24" wheeled bike and the cranks look too small for the length of his legs when I ride behind him. I ordered some Suntour Zeroed 152mm cranks for this build.


If your kid is still small enough for a 20" bike, 140mm cranks are probably the better choice. I'd argue that most people, especially kids, are on longer cranks than needed for a mountain bike.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

Neseth said:


> Has your child ridden with those 140mm cranks yet? My son has 140mm cranks right now with his current 24" wheeled bike and the cranks look too small for the length of his legs when I ride behind him. I ordered some Suntour Zeroed 152mm cranks for this build.


Yup they look fine for her and works well. I used the standard 10% rule for the crank length… she still is a bit less than 140cm tall so I went with 140mm. Having said that 150mm would probably been fine. 

Here is one guide:




__





BikeDynamics - Bike Fitting Specialists - Crank Arm Lengths


Value for money bike fitting for all riders who want to improve the speed, comfort, endurance and enjoyment of their cycling.



bikedynamics.co.uk





What do you see to determine that the cranks look too short by watching from behind? I can tell when kids ride too long on the cranks because they have to flex their hips so much to pedal.


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## Neseth (Nov 4, 2009)

yakswak said:


> What do you see to determine that the cranks look too short by watching from behind? I can tell when kids ride too long on the cranks because they have to flex their hips so much to pedal.


It just seems like his legs don't extend far enough to get a comfortable stroke. My frame probably won't arrive for another few weeks. So I won't know if 152mm is good or bad until it's all built.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

Neseth said:


> It just seems like his legs don't extend far enough to get a comfortable stroke. My frame probably won't arrive for another few weeks. So I won't know if 152mm is good or bad until it's all built.


That seems more like an issue with saddle height? We're talking about a cm here or there, they will all work fine (140-155mm cranks). 

The ones that I can really tell are wrong are the kids using their dad/mom's old 165 or 175mm cranks on these small bikes. 

As for bike companies spec'ing crank sizes I see more of them moving away from 175 and down to 170 or 165 even for the large frame size in their lineup, which is nice to see! I like the shorter cranks for less pedal strikes.


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## Neseth (Nov 4, 2009)

yakswak said:


> That seems more like an issue with saddle height? We're talking about a cm here or there, they will all work fine (140-155mm cranks).
> 
> The ones that I can really tell are wrong are the kids using their dad/mom's old 165 or 175mm cranks on these small bikes.
> 
> As for bike companies spec'ing crank sizes I see more of them moving away from 175 and down to 170 or 165 even for the large frame size in their lineup, which is nice to see! I like the shorter cranks for less pedal strikes.


It could be, I have the saddle maxed out now on his 24" wheel'd bike. So I have to move him to a larger frame for sure. 

Even as an adult though, 175mm is uncomfortable for me. I can tell a big difference going to 170mm cranks, which is what I'm riding now. It's perfect and that's only half a cm.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

How tall is your son? I looked at that Suntour crankset but having not done a bike build for a while, having to think about PF90/BB92, etc got me a bit confused so I decided I was going to get a Prevelo/Trailcraft/Spawn crankset to make things easier for my tired brain. 

I like my new bike's 170mm cranks also. I will probably move to 165mm for my next bike (I'm 6' with "normal" limb dimensions...).


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