# What is with E bike sand their long chain stays?



## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

I've been looking at buying an E bike and couldn't help but notice most chainsays are like 2 inches longer than regular full suspension bikes. Does this have negative affect on the ride?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Not really a problem because ebikes are so heavy, manuals and wheelies are not practical. 

Long chainstays help with stability, which is important when you consider that most ebike riders are lesser skilled than their non motorized counterparts.


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## russmu66 (Nov 11, 2007)

when you consider that most ebike riders are lesser skilled than their non motorized counterparts.[/QUOTE said:


> That's a big assumption to make.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

russmu66 said:


> That's a big assumption to make.


Most arguments from the pro e-bike crowd is that e-bikes allow unfit or physically challenged people to get out and ride. Are you saying that experience, fit riders are buying e-bikes?


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Not really a problem because ebikes are so heavy, manuals and wheelies are not practical.
> 
> Long chainstays help with stability, which is important when you consider that most ebike riders are lesser skilled than their non motorized counterparts.


So how do you explain people on trials, enduro, and mx bikes being skilled? I've got many miles logged on both motos and mountain bikes, but since much of my mountain biking locations have inclines that I am yet to see anyone ride a bike up under their own leg power I think its kinds of narrow minded to assume something like people are unskilled or unfit based on their choice of bike.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

They likely have longer chainstays, as the bike itself will be putting down a lot more power under easier pedaling on steeper inclines.  As a result, it would be easier to go over the back if the chainstays were shorter.

Think of it like a drag motorcycle compared to a normal motorcycle. Why does the drag bike (or hill climb bike) have an extended swingarm? To help prevents wheelies, and going over the back.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

The chainstays are longer because the motor and the shell it sits in interferes with the pivot location compared to a mtb, not because of any design choices. 

If it has a negative affect on your ride is dependant on what you want. Obviously, longer chainstays make for a longer wheelbase, more stable at speed, less nimble etc.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Most arguments from the pro e-bike crowd is that e-bikes allow unfit or physically challenged people to get out and ride. Are you saying that experience, fit riders are buying e-bikes?


Yeah! They do


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

GiantTurd said:


> ???? If they were fit, why would they have an assisted bike?


Because they're open minded and truly enjoy riding. Not following another person's ideology.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Harryman said:


> The chainstays are longer because the motor and the shell it sits in interferes with the pivot location compared to a mtb, not because of any design choices.
> 
> If it has a negative affect on your ride is dependant on what you want. Obviously, longer chainstays make for a longer wheelbase, more stable at speed, less nimble etc.


^^^ That's the correct answer^^^

The Shimano Steps motor housing is designed so well. They dont have this issue (or at least minimized it). They also have the correct Q Factor. Brose, Bosch and Yamaha will catch on in time.

At least with longer chainstays, you have a lot more stability with steep technical climbs. That EMTBers (Unfit, Unskilled, Lazy, etc...) Loves to do!


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

GiantTurd said:


> Can you post a video of such riding, trying to understand.


Nah! You're not worth my time...Happy trolling!


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

What would be considered a standard length for a chainstay in mm where much above would be long and much below would be short?


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

PinoyMTBer said:


> Yeah! They do


That's pathetic.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

GiantTurd said:


> Crazy, I do not know any experienced in shape riders who prefer to ride a 40-50lb bike, especially DH. Ruins all the fun for jumping, bunny hopping, manuals, rock gardens, doubles, drops and so on. Maybe your definition experienced riders is different then mine.


Funny! You OBVIOUSLY don't ride DH bikes...What's the average weight for a decent non-motorized DH bike?


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

My GP and my Cardio guy both claim that I am fit for a man my age (64 in a few weeks) and that my BMI is in the normal range, but I have 4 ebikes and no push bikes. I walk the trails in the hills with my dog for exercise every day and ride them for fun 3 or 4 days a week. What's so pathetic about that? I have no desire whatsoever to train and be an athlete, but I do want to go for a 20 mile ride in Topanga Park a few times a week and now I can.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

GiantTurd said:


> ???? If they were fit, why would they have an assisted bike?


Well then I suppose you are willing to step out into your driveway and sawzall the floor out of your car or truck to go full flintstone then huh.
Acting like people on motos are unfit, get real. Most serious moto riders are in the top 1% for physical fitness levels. They train like any other major athlete. Your way of thinking is highly skewed.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

I was out of line here.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

PinoyMTBer said:


> Funny! You OBVIOUSLY don't ride DH bikes...What's the average weight for a decent non-motorized DH bike?


30-35 pounds.

Unless you fire up the DeLorean and head back to about 1998 and pick up a Karpiel Armageddon or something.

-W


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

WoodlandHills said:


> What would be considered a standard length for a chainstay in mm where much above would be long and much below would be short?


Not to flippant, but it depends on the bike. Wheel size and intent primarily. FS? HT? Fat bike? 29er? Not to mention era... Over the years, the goal has pretty much stayed the same in making them as short as possible for better climbing and playfulness. Since you're not trying to squeeze every bit of efficiency out of your measly power output on an ebike, I don't see it would be a downside climbing, but the longer the wheelbase, the more they ride like a truck instead of a sports car.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

That's what I'm afraid of. They seem to have quite longer stays than pedal only bikes. Both my fat bike and Niner Jet 9 are around 445-450 and I feel any longer would just not be that fun.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

My 1985 Miyata Ridge Runner had 465mm chainstays and I had plenty of fun on that, mostly because with the skinny, terrible tires pumped up to @50psi, and non existant brakes, you were cheating death at all times. It's all relative. 

But yeah, you're looking at 445-465mm generally for 27+ motorized mtbs.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

GiantTurd said:


> Crazy, I do not know any experienced in shape riders who prefer to ride a 40-50lb bike, especially DH. Ruins all the fun for jumping, bunny hopping, manuals, rock gardens, doubles, drops and so on. Maybe your definition experienced riders is different then mine.


My experience, they are MORE experienced. A lot more skill set goes into hauling a Levo they technical trail, not to mention the physical weight of throwing it around. I know many EXPERT and State Champs that enjoy riding their ebike. Why? Because it's different and exciting. Ride one and find out. Don't just assume.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

mountainbiker24 said:


> That's pathetic.


Look who's talking, you've probably never rode one. I'm glad you post in here with ZERO ebike experience.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Gutch said:


> My experience, they are MORE experienced. A lot more skill set goes into hauling a Levo they technical trail, not to mention the physical weight of throwing it around. I know many EXPERT and State Champs that enjoy riding their ebike. Why? Because it's different and exciting. Ride one and find out. Don't just assume.


Please name them.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Please tell me what ebike you own.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Of course, if you convert an existing MTB instead of buying an OEM ebike, you have a greater choice of geometries.

What exactly is the influence of the chainstay length on handling? I would have thought that overall wheelbase was more important.


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## Moe Ped (Aug 24, 2009)

WoodlandHills said:


> Of course, if you convert an existing MTB instead of buying an OEM ebike, you have a greater choice of geometries.
> 
> What exactly is the influence of the chainstay length on handling? I would have thought that overall wheelbase was more important.


I think the manufacturers have done their homework well with chainstays an inch or two longer for an equivalent MTB with electric power. All of my conversions seem too short when climbing (grade = 15~20%+) with maximum effort and maximum assist; no way can I stay seated and keep the front wheel down.

The chainstay length is a better metric of a bike's center of mass (mostly the rider) in relation to the rear wheel. Everything else in the witch's brew of bike geometry has an effect but wheelbase is more a symptom of other design choices than a goal unto itself.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Gutch said:


> Look who's talking, you've probably never rode one. I'm glad you post in here with ZERO ebike experience.


Actually, I have ridden one or two. Thanks for looking stupid, though.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Well, the only folks I've seen personally on e-bikes were either pretty old/out of shape, or obvious complete noobs (as in, reflectors and kickstands and helmet backwards noobs). There was a guy who is a pro quad racer locally who was using one to Strava various hillclimbs but I think he got made fun of enough that he stopped. 

That is a pretty small N, though (I've only seen half a dozen) so who knows, maybe all the local pros will be riding them everywhere this season. I personally (as one of them) really, really doubt it, but you never know. 

-W


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