# texturising wood for wet surface traction



## Oblisk (May 12, 2010)

i live in PNW and it rains. . .alot. 

ive just built a bridge about 20 feet long and about 16 of those feet use 20 year old wood from my deck (which was recently resurfaced) and as a resault when they are wet they are covered it a top layer of mush wood. (nothing structurally damaging less than 1mm thick, but enough to ruin any grip) So long story short i need a good way to texturise these boards for grip. . . .

any ideas?


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Crosshatch with a chainsaw .


----------



## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Crosshatch with a chainsaw .


I second that suggestion. A quarter inch will do.


----------



## ak greeff (May 21, 2008)

you could always put some chicken wire or some old fish net over it.


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

ak greeff said:


> you could always put some chicken wire or some old fish net over it.


I wouldn't.


----------



## DParks (Oct 3, 2009)

Polyurethane mixed with sand or crosshatching. If the wood already has that slick feel when it gets wet, cross-hatching might not help. Once the tires loose traction and break free they might not be able to find the traction again, cross-hatched or not.

The polyurethane mixed with sand will give the wood some protection and the sand will give you the grip.

Putting chicken wire or shingles on is just something that will mess you up worse when and if you do fall on it. Plus, it will eventually come loose and now you just have trash on the trail.


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

This question is tougher than it looks because of the wood being used. I'm picturing 5/4" chemically treated deck planking. It was old to begin with so it's probably lost some thickness. The OP mentions "mush wood" so to use a chainsaw to get to good wood with cross hatching may make the boards structurally unsound. In that case the only solution is to "add" something.

I stay away from chicken wire, metal lath etc. because of the danger of injury should someone falls on it and the possible damage to tires or bikes if it comes loose.

Roofing tiles work but don't last very long at all. I've never used deck coating like DParks is suggesting but if it lasts a reasonable amount of time, I'd vote for that.


----------



## DParks (Oct 3, 2009)

The coating of choice is up to the builder. Clear polyurethane will keep the natural look of the wood but paint can work well, too.

If you have untold amounts of money, you could take to boards to a place that does spray on truck bed liners and get the boards sprayed ($$$$$), or get "Herculiner" from an auto parts store. It can be bought in gallon cans for $80 and applied to almost anything. That will give a texture and protect the wood from further damage from the elements


----------



## blackgriffen_1 (May 18, 2010)

we're looking for a cheap solution. teenagers with not much money trying to make interesting trails=scrounged materials. hence the semi-trashed wood we built the bridge with. here's a pic for reference:


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Chainsaw finish is about as cheap as it gets .


----------



## Shep Huntwood (Apr 29, 2008)

Rust-oleum anti-skid additive mixed into deck paint. I learned this trick recently in a trail building course. Similar to the sand idea, but sand granules are round and smooth, so they won't bond as well to the paint and will wear off quicker.


----------



## pstaff15 (Jan 9, 2008)

roof shingles.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Shep Huntwood said:


> Rust-oleum anti-skid additive mixed into deck paint. I learned this trick recently in a trail building course. Similar to the sand idea, but sand granules are round and smooth, so they won't bond as well to the paint and will wear off quicker.


Builders sand is round and smooth , if you can source horticultural sand or "sharp sand" , it works much better . :thumbsup:


----------



## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Ride carefully.....


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

jeffscott said:


> Ride carefully.....


... and toe rails!


----------



## tflounder (May 12, 2008)

We use an epoxy paint that is used on the bottom of pools. The grit is mixed with the paint and goes on very thick. Allow it to cure and its like painting grip tape. Not cheap!


----------



## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

*anti skid*

I wonder about anti skid tape. I usually see it in industrial catalogs in black and yellow stripes ( aliitle loud for the woods). I got some clear/translucent for steep wooden stairs (dangerous in a pair of socks) that worked pretty well. I even use it on the chainstays for protection (transluscence allows colour to show thru v tube wrap/zip tie). Might hold up reasonably well if it sticks, otherwise some stapling?


----------



## rsb201 (Jan 26, 2010)

I second roof shingles. Just line them up end to end, problem solved.


----------



## DParks (Oct 3, 2009)

The nice thing about roofing shingles is they are cheap, plentiful, and they have good grip. That is where the advantages end. As they are ridden on, the granules come off, eventually leaving slick spots. But more than likely, they will just rip off and litter the sides of the bridge. This is the same problem that will happen with chicken wire. It will quickly wind up torn off and littering the side of the trail. Plus, unless you put the shingles on the bridge the way you would on a roof, water is going to get under them and not dry out, which will make the wood rot faster.

Leave the trash at the dump. There is no reason to take a very short term fix out there. It may be cheap, but it won't last and will make a mess. Then you run into the problems of having a trail with trash all over it. There won't be anyone to blame but the riders about where this trash came from. 

If you go to Lowe's, you can get paint that has been returned (wrong color, wrong type, etc) for less than $10/gallon. Mix it with sand of choice and you have a textured surface. It won't shred off and it is much easier to carry a gallon of paint and a brush than old roofing shingles, nails, and a hammer. And the paint will help to keep the moisture off the wood, lengthening the life of the bridge.


----------



## Visicypher (Aug 5, 2004)

*Grizzly Grip*

anyone ever try this:

http://www.grizzlygrip.com/


----------



## mtbikernc69 (Mar 23, 2004)

Shingles-garbage and looks like crap. Medium grip at best and allows moisture between the wood and shingles.

Chicken wire-Rusts eventually and somewhat fragile if wheels are locked up or pedal hits it. Once damaged will stick up causing safety problems.

Floor epoxy-While good, very expensive.

My choice of decking treatment is this: Take one gallon of flat, exterior, latex floor paint (mixed with your favorite color. Mine is dark brown to blend in.) and thoroughly mix about 10-15 pounds of play sand and apply with an old, disposable brush. Don't use a roller! Sounds like it would work but it makes the sand clump badly. A gallon of this paint is about $20-$25 US and wherever you can find sand or buy a bag of it.
I've been doing bridges this way for over 5 years and the first one I did is just now showing some appreciable wear. 
Don't know what everyone is talking about "round" sand or "rough" sand. Sounds like hair splitting to me. Anyway, the stuff grips like crazy and you could use it for sandpaper if you want. You also leave the drainage between each board intact. (You did leave at least a 1/4" gap between the deck boards, right?) 
In the future I would NOT recommend old decking unless it's of the 2X variety. 5/4 is marginal at best for any kind of longevity. Add the fact that it's old and starting to decay; you'll be replacing it soon and I'd consider it a safety hazard and a liability issue in the future.

BTW This technique was handed down directly to me from Mike Riter, half of the original IMBA Trail Care Crew. And Woodsman can back me up on the 2X lumber.

Anyway...I'm not sure much will help seeing as the top layer of the wood is already starting to rot. Not sure how well the treatment "wood" adhere toe the "wood". (Sorry, bad joke...)

Mark


----------



## Shep Huntwood (Apr 29, 2008)

Great post. Thanks for sharing your technique.
FWIW, I heard the round vs rough sand thing straight from the mouth of Mike Riter a couple months ago. The Rust-oleum additive idea came from his class, as well.



mtbikernc69 said:


> Shingles-garbage and looks like crap. Medium grip at best and allows moisture between the wood and shingles.
> 
> Chicken wire-Rusts eventually and somewhat fragile if wheels are locked up or pedal hits it. Once damaged will stick up causing safety problems.
> 
> ...


----------



## mtbikernc69 (Mar 23, 2004)

And I thought 'I' was anal about stuff! I like cheap and long lasting. The paint and play sand do the trick and it's low maintenance. I guess which ever works for ya. Just can't stand to see shingles used anymore. We used to that years ago and after awhile it's just not that effective, IMHO.

Later...


----------



## BikesOnSnow (Jan 23, 2004)

Here's a recently treated bridge in Northern Vermont. We've used metal lath with great success in other areas, but wanted to experiment with other solutions. These bridges were previously coated in chicken wire, which was generally worthless for improving traction.

I asked all around for "sharp sand" aka "horticultural sand" with zero success. I bought a bag of "builder's sand" but that was just play sand with a few round pebbles. Finally, a landscaper friend suggested the local limestone quarry. They have about a dozen particle sizes available and I settled on "trap sand" which looks a lot like very coarse salt. $12 for a few 5 gallon buckets!

We scrubbed the 1 year old bridges with a "2 in 1" cleaning solution, let it dry, then painted on a VERY thick coat of stain. The sand was sprinkled on top while wet, then left alone to dry thoroughly as we worked on the three other ramps. Another coat of stain was added and dried over a few very hot days.

The traction is remarkable now that it's all dry. Let's hope it last for at least a few years!


----------



## mtbikernc69 (Mar 23, 2004)

You should try mixing the sand in 'with' the paint. Makes it a little harder to paint but seems to hold the sand well. Your way should work too but seems like a two step procedure. I'm all for getting it done quickly. 

And yea...hot days work the best. I can start painting and by the time I get to the second or third bridge, the first one is already dry. I just thought of another source of grit. We have a company down here called Vulcan Quarry and they have quarries all over the place. They rock dust left over from processing the different sizes of gravel. It's course and just a tad bigger than play sand. We typically get a 5 gallon bucket of it for the garden (puts the minerals back in the soil and works great on 'maters!). I'm going to try that next time.


----------



## blackgriffen_1 (May 18, 2010)

The original idea behind this was to launch up off of the ramp on the opposite side (sorry, no pics) and land partway down the bridge where it crosses over the large dead tree. For this, sand mixed with paint would have been useful. However, after attempting said move a couple times, we decided it was just stupid. Mainly I just got pissed at sliding on that bit, so I shingled the whole middle route of the bridge on a rainy day. It's a pretty low-use trail focusing on technical features so high traffic isn't an issue. Feel free to throw us flak for using shingles, I'm just happy the damn thing is easy to ride in the wet now.


----------



## bpressnall (Aug 25, 2006)

Since it's only 20' long, nail on some metal mesh fencing, like 1/2 inch. Sorry, I don't know official hardware store terminology. Cut it to width with wire cutters, wrap it over the edges a bit, secure it with "horseshoe" nails (I know, wrong terminology). I used some on some old boards and it's worked great for 3 years so far, great tire grip. Don't use chicken wire;it's too flimsy. If you can get some free comp shingles, that will work for a little while. If you use paint on grip, it won't stick well to your rotten surfaced wood. Grip tape won't stick well to mushy wood. But if you don't want to spend any money and can't find any mesh laying around on your uncle's ranch, the chainsaw might be the way to go, but the wood will probably rot faster.


----------



## ajd245246 (Sep 1, 2008)

I've never had a problem riding on chicken wire before, it has never messed up my tires or anything, but then again I've never took a spill on it. For a more long term perspective I'd suggest tar or perhaps driveway sealant (or epoxy paint as mentioned above), and sprinkle sand on it before it dries. That way you'll have double adhesion because it’s basically like nailing shingles onto the ladder but you won’t have to worry about them peeling off. Also it will still allow mud to shed through the gaps in the boards, which wouldn’t happen if you had shingles lined up. And if you want to get really technical it should even slow the wood from rotting. If you can’t get a hold of any tar, try looking for anything that sand will stick to because that’s probably your best bet.


----------



## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Lots of good solutions with paint, urethane, sand, etc, but with "mushy" wood none of those solutions will work, You may be stuck with metal lathe like is used for masonry and stucco.


----------



## ajd245246 (Sep 1, 2008)

Looking back to the OP's picture, I really don't think chicken wire would be a problem. It's very straight and doesn't look like a high risk bridge. If it was more curvy and roller coaster like then I'd say other wise but for such a short span it's no different than riding on asphalt.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Just wanted to bring this thread back for a quick question.

What about "spray adhesive" THEN sand thrown on? One can says it covers about 70 sq.ft., it's fairly cheap (about $7 a can).
Just seems like it would be easy/fast to apply, should hold the sand well.

Anyone ever tried it?


----------



## tyler243 (Oct 28, 2009)

never tried it. but it probably wouldn't work unless it is a water proof adhesive.


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

I have done that on outdoor concrete steps, but we scrubbed the steps with soap and a brush, then used TSP on the steps. We used a spray adhesive and "washed" sand to it had almost no dust to it.

Agree with @tyler243, have to be waterproof and the surface to spray with adhesive would have to be very clean I am thinking.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Hmm, good point. I hadn't thought of that. The stuff does day "water resistant", but I don't want to put the time and money into it if I'm not 100% confident that it's going to work.

Think we'll be going with the paint and sand and cheap brushes method.


----------



## donwatts (Aug 1, 2006)

If your city or county has a recycling program, check with them about recycled paint. The local recycle program here takes paint and pours it in drums and gives it out to people for projects. The color will probably come out somewhat gray. They will have latex and oil based. I recommend oil based and sand mixed in it.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

That's one vote for latex, one vote for oil based.

Latex is easier to work with, but I would think that the oil based would last longer.


----------



## tyler243 (Oct 28, 2009)

oil based will last longer. as long as it is not water based you should be fine


----------



## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Put a few...

...hex head metal screws in a random pattern in each board, that way if ya do slide it won't be a long one. If its really hard wood you'll have pre-drill to prevent splitting.


----------



## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

The OP talks about 20 year old wood that has been stained, is encapsulated and has a thin layer of mush which is the initial onset of decomposition.

My suggestion would have been, you have rotting wood, it's on it's last legs, let it ride and deal with the mush. For if you wanted to re-stain, or encapsulate with sand again, you would want to sand the boards. Pretty extensive, and you're working with slats on their last legs, best would be to replace the slats with something else.

Algae/mold etc is a natural process and contributes to slippery wood. With a smooth surface found in all architectural planks, it means ass over tea kettle. Chicken wire hence does nothing to improve the traction per-se. What it generally does is provide an atmosphere where the algae/mold won't take, which if favorable for traction, and for longevity.

If one were to decide to use composition roofing, i always suggest rounding the corners of the shingles, creating oval shapes. 

When talking about shingles, and wood that's been stained/painted you are talking about wood that is now pretty much contaminated and when they do break down should be disposed of properly. 

Finally on covering the tops of slats with a coat of paint or stain. It's not a good idea unless you are encapsulating the entire board. If there is a section of the board that is not covered it will absorb moisture. It can no longer breathe like untreated wood, the surfaces that are treated block the moisture trapping it inside. Subtle expansion and contraction, eventually it will break down and begin rapidly rotting from the inside out. Weakening structurally faster than if it were left untreated.

All wood is organic and will break down over time. Some wood is resistant to this, like Western Red Cedar. Mature trees are the best if you can harvest a blowdown the largest most mature trees will provide the highest quality wood. It also splits easy providing a natural split surface versus a sawn surface. Western Red Cedar are the planks you see in the North Shore vids.


----------



## Dwreck (Jul 7, 2010)

I second the use of blowdowns. All of our bridges were built using blown down cedar and oak. We saw cut them to length and then split them into planks about 2 1/2-3 inches thick. The splitting gives them great ridges for traction.


----------



## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

If the bridge is straight, don't treat it with anything. Consider building with rocks if you have them. Pitching takes a long time but it will last through your lifetime...

mk


----------



## Cormac (Aug 6, 2011)

the bridges in my trails have chicken wire on em. Works pretty good.


----------



## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

Dwreck said:


> I second the use of blowdowns. All of our bridges were built using blown down cedar and oak. We saw cut them to length and then split them into planks about 2 1/2-3 inches thick. The splitting gives them great ridges for traction.


And, they have a more natural look - they just mesh right in with the surroundings. Nice looking bridges.


----------



## Dwreck (Jul 7, 2010)

Thanks Oldbroad...We do take pride in using only natural on site materials for our structures. It makes it look a lot less intrusive to the forest. And best of all, the stock is free. Plenty for the projects we have planned. Just takes a ton of time to build like this. One bridge can take upwards of 6 hours with 2 people working on it to span 12 feet or so. But in the long run, it is better for the land and the trail, and sturdy as they come. And that is what is important. Safely built structures that do not negatively impact the surrounding environment.


----------



## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

I do my texturizing on the table saw at home.


----------

