# B&M / BUMM IQ2-Tec and Dynamo Lights



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

so i was dreaming about Ixon IQ speed and CHnuschti says it's not good enough - the pattern too narrow with not enough light in the near field ...

and then i see this:










that's the new IQ2 system by BUMM from single light head, compare it to dual Ixon IQ Speed Light Heads:










all i can say is WOW i really like this beam pattern.

only problem is - this light is Dynamo only ...

i have 2 bikes now ( Road and MTN ) and i'm thinking about getting a 3rd one ( Cyclocross or Hybrid ). and i would like to be able to switch the light between the bikes which doesn't bode well for a Dynamo - does it ?

is there a way to use a Dynamo light with a battery pack ? obviously there is always a Do-It-Yourself solution for stuff like that but is there a more or less factory solution for using a battery pack with a Dynamo light ?

sorry, i just don't see the point of Dynamos when a single lithium cell has enough juice to drive a Dynamo light and can be recharged with USB charger in 2 hours.

i also don't see any obvious way to mount this light on my road bike. my MTN bike seems to have a hole that might work for this type of deal, but the road bike does not.

HELP ! ???


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

having thought about it some more both options are bad ...

somehow i overlooked the "big bang" by B&M and now that i have seen it somehow i have lost interest in IQ and IQ2 lights ...

so the Germans aren't as dumb as they pretend to be ... they know what a good light should be like ... damn that Big Bang light is impressive, but $750 for a bulky HID system that only has 1 output level ... not to mention i simply don't have $750 ...

i guess i'll just stick with my sad little Philips SafeRide until B&M produces something with a performance similar to that of their Big Bang but affordable, small, light, LED based and with the ability to dim it for MUPs.

i have to say B&M is a really interesting company ! so far i think the MOST interesting bike light company. so many interesting products with great engineering but not one that is quite right. bah !

if they simply took Ixon IQ Speed - switched the optics to their IQ2 optics, switched the LEDs to XMLs, plastic housings to Aluminum and batteries to Lithium they would have a perfect light - but no !

oh well, they will get around to it, but they will take their sweet time. i can tell though they know what they're doing, they're just not very interested in rushing the latest and greatest product to market.

somebody needs to merge B&M and Lupine into one company because Lupine always uses the latest LEDs and has the highest output to size and weight ratio but never innovates the beam pattern, while B&M is always innovating the beam pattern but doesn't doesn't even have any lights that use XMLs or any LED lights that use lithium batteries. this is crazy.

anyway, i know B&M will release a usable light eventually ... must have patience ...


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

http://commuting.es/web/catalogos/catalogo_bumm.pdf
_LUXOS E
140 Lux with an even wider light area. The LUXOS E uses the vehicle's battery and literally "outshines everything"._

I'm waiting to hear about drag from the Luxos before I upgrade my Cyo ( which will run off battery, if thats your thing).
http://www.starbike.com/images/BUMM/PDF/175q.pdf

BTW, order from rose.de and dynamo wheels are surprisingly cheap.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

znomit said:


> http://commuting.es/web/catalogos/catalogo_bumm.pdf
> _LUXOS E
> 140 Lux with an even wider light area. The LUXOS E uses the vehicle's battery and literally "outshines everything"._
> 
> ...


this is very interesting ! i didn't check E-bike lights !

however i see 2 problems with this Luxos E ...

1 - peterwhitecycles website says this light is not for sale - only available to E-Bike manufacturers ...

2 - it appears that E-Bikes use 24V, 36V or 48V batteries. not very convenient.

do you have any idea when the Luxos IQ2 line came out ? if it is very recent then i would hope that there is a regular battery-powered variant on the horizon ?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

you know, these Luxos IQ2 light heads are very impressive all around - they put in a lot of thought into them. it would be very surprising if they didn't offer this technology on a regular battery powered light.

what i HOPE has happened is that they're ( once again, i HOPE ) working on a lithium battery system to replace the Ni-Mh system used in Ixon IQ Speed and this is why the Dynamo and the E-Bike versions came out first, and the Battery powered version ( i hope ) will come out once they finish development of the lithium battery / charger.

if there is an Ixon IQ2 Speed system that has a lithium battery powering two 140 Lux IQ2 light heads that would be simply awesome ! i hope that's what they're working on ...


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

androgen said:


> do you have any idea when the Luxos IQ2 line came out ? if it is very recent then i would hope that there is a regular battery-powered variant on the horizon ?


They were introduced a year ago, at Eurobike 2012. But they were not widely available until March or April 2013. Here You can read a test of both Luxos B and U
B&M Luxos
The author is a member here. There is a lot more to read on his site:
Bicycle lighting, in particular examining hubdynamos and dynamo powered LED headlamps with cutoff (and now also USB power from dynamos )

According to the German StVZO-rules bikes over 12kg must have (hub-)dynamo lights.
But if I understand correctly that rule was changed 1st of August this year,
so perhaps there is a battery Luxos in the future?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

as for Dynamos. a Dynamo puts out 3 watts. a single lithium cell can put out 3 watts for 3 hours whether you're stopped or riding. a lithium cell costs 10 dollars, doesn't produce any drag and can be easily switched from bike to bike. 

but that's not even the main advantage of lithium. the main advantage is you can have 2,4,6,8 cells but you can't have 8 dynamos.

if a lithium cell fails it will be a lot easier to replace than a dynamo.

just what kind of a case can be made for dynamos anyway ? what is the advantage ? 

as far as i can tell:

lithium: cheap, light, powerful, portable, no drag

dynamo: heavy, expensive, low-power, non-portable, drag

am i wrong ? please correct me.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> They were introduced a year ago, at Eurobike 2012. But they were not widely available until March or April 2013. Here You can read a test of both Luxos B and U
> B&M Luxos
> The author is a member here. There is a lot more to read on his site:
> Bicycle lighting, in particular examining hubdynamos and dynamo powered LED headlamps with cutoff (and now also USB power from dynamos )
> ...


i love Germany but damn their Government is the worst Nanny State ever.

i heard you need prescription from the doctor to buy Vitamins there - insanity !

they still carry so much guilt from WW2 that they just can't seem to grasp the concept of personal liberty. they feel they need the government to constantly punish them for everything. i think they need to wake up and realize that you cannot be held accountable for what was done by other people before you were born.

we have an entire guilt industry now. not just holocaust guilt, but white guilt, male privilege guilt, cis privilege guilt, any sort of guilt you can think of guilt. everybody is now guilty of everything without any trial or jury and without having ever done anything - we're just all supposed to crawl on our knees and beg to be punished for anything and everything we have never done. this is really toxic.

sorry for getting off topic ...

thanks for the information ! ! !


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> They were introduced a year ago, at Eurobike 2012. But they were not widely available until March or April 2013. Here You can read a test of both Luxos B and U
> B&M Luxos
> The author is a member here. There is a lot more to read on his site:
> Bicycle lighting, in particular examining hubdynamos and dynamo powered LED headlamps with cutoff (and now also USB power from dynamos )
> ...


i understand the logic behind requiring dynamos though - they figured people will forget to or not bother to recharge their rechargeable lights, and will not buy replacement batteries which are bad for environment anyway, so the only way to ensure people will not only have but actually USE their lights is to force people to use dynamos.

but that just proves my point that dynamo is actually a punishment from the government - basically electromagnetic chains around your wheels. why would anybody want to willingly impose this punishment on himself ?


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## CHnuschti (Nov 12, 2008)

HakanC said:


> According to the German StVZO-rules bikes over 12kg must have (hub-)dynamo lights.
> But if I understand correctly that rule was changed 1st of August this year,
> so perhaps there is a battery Luxos in the future?


Indeed they have just changed it 1. Aug. 2013. Bikes now must have a fixed OR removable bikelight (only in the night of course), battery OR accumulator OR dynamo, only premise is it must have a LED indicating the charge status, so nobody can say "hey, my batterie has just gone empty". But must still comply to STVZO, so not glare incoming traffic, what in fact has led to the design of the IXON IQ, Philips Saferide etc.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

CHnuschti said:


> Indeed they have just changed it 1. Aug. 2013. Bikes now must have a fixed OR removable bikelight (only in the night of course), battery OR accumulator OR dynamo, only premise is it must have a LED indicating the charge status, so nobody can say "hey, my batterie has just gone empty". But must still comply to STVZO, so not glare incoming traffic, what in fact has led to the design of the IXON IQ, Philips Saferide etc.


that's great news for those of us who want a German light with more than 3 watts of power ! excellent !

now that German lights aren't artificially tied to that 3 watt dynamo i expect them to finally take a serious look at lithium.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

androgen said:


> just what kind of a case can be made for dynamos anyway ? what is the advantage ?
> 
> as far as i can tell:
> 
> ...


Yes, you are wrong 

A shimano 3n80 hub is 60US$ more than a 105 hub, 300gm heavier... 100gm more than a 4 cell 18650 pack.... 
The battery will likely need replacing every three years, and you'll need two if you want to ride all night, like I do, getting heavy now!

Drag is 2W during the day and 5W when the cyo is on.... cyo costs about 80US$. Better beam to ride with than your generic DX "1000lm" XML lights.... much cheaper all up than the name brand lights.

Plus, I never have to worry about charging batteries or mounting lights. Always there and it turns itself on when the sun goes down.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

znomit said:


> Yes, you are wrong
> 
> A shimano 3n80 hub is 60US$ more than a 105 hub, 300gm heavier... 100gm more than a 4 cell 18650 pack....
> The battery will likely need replacing every three years, and you'll need two if you want to ride all night, like I do, getting heavy now!
> ...


i already have 11 lights that need recharging in my setup. i really don't think having one more or less light to recharge will make any difference for me.

i don't think too many people ride all night. most people ride for 3 - 4 hours i think, and batteries are designed accordingly. 5 watts x 4 hours = 20 watt hours. that's 2 cells. that's a battery smaller than a pack of cigarettes.

and then again - no drag - none - day or night.

plus i like to be seen by cars whether i am moving or not. i don't want to become invisible just because i stopped.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

ok as it turns out the Luxos U and Luxos B can only accept AC power ...

however the Luxos E accepts DC from 15 to 75 volts.

could i use two of these in series to get 24V:

Amazon.com : 12V 1800mA Portable Battery Pack with charger : Electronics

???


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

androgen said:


> ok as it turns out the Luxos U and Luxos B can only accept AC power


Are you really sure about that?
I haven't tried it my self, but a friend of a friend testad his Luxos U with a 7,4V Li-ION-battery (Magicshine)
Apparently it worked.

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

Putting DC through a rectifier circuit won't affect things. The bigger issue though is current - dynamo lights don't need to control the current as the dynamo can only produce ~0.5A. Lion batteries OTH can deliver enough current to kill components including the LEDs


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> Are you really sure about that?
> I haven't tried it my self, but a friend of a friend testad his Luxos U with a 7,4V Li-ION-battery (Magicshine)
> Apparently it worked.
> 
> ...


that's what i saw in one of their ( BUMM ) PDFs - said that it doesn't work with DC, however maybe they were just trying to discourage people from experimentation.

it would still be nice to get the Luxos E version if possible, because the U has many dynamo specific features that won't be used when running off battery, whereas the E has extra heat sinking and power output.

anybody know how one could score a Luxos E ? maybe pretend you are an E-bike owner who accidentally broke his light and ask to buy a replacement or something like that ?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

find_bruce said:


> Putting DC through a rectifier circuit won't affect things. The bigger issue though is current - dynamo lights don't need to control the current as the dynamo can only produce ~0.5A. Lion batteries OTH can deliver enough current to kill components including the LEDs


you don't think the light would have some kind of regulation ?


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

Sure it is possible that a manufacturer might have added a few $ worth of unnecessary or significantly overspeced components. The only way to know would be to open it up & examine the components & circuit. Unless I was certain I wouldn't be betting my ~$200 light on it.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

find_bruce said:


> Sure it is possible that a manufacturer might have added a few $ worth of unnecessary or significantly overspeced components. The only way to know would be to open it up & examine the components & circuit. Unless I was certain I wouldn't be betting my ~$200 light on it.


yeah i wouldn't have the guts to experiment with it either. they're really expensive, which is why i won't be able to bring myself to buy one unless i knew it is just perfect for me and so far there is something wrong with all of them.

if i could get the Luxos E 140 Lumen light head and hook it up with a DIY 24V battery though that would be interesting. certainly run time wouldn't be an issue then. but the E is not for sale.

its a shame though because aside from B&M Big Bang the IQ2 is the only light i can think of with the pattern smooth enough to compliment my L&M Seca helmet lights. the Seca 1700 pattern is smooth as butter - about 10 times smoother than Philips Saferide, but of course - it doesn't have any cutoff. my goal is to find a light with a sharp cutoff that has a pattern just as smooth as the Seca 1700 so i can run them both on the road and have a beautiful even lighting, then when i hit the MUP turn off the helmet light and use just the low-mounted German-style light with the anti-glare cutoff.

Luxos E would be perfect for that, if i could actually get one. The SafeRide does have very noticeable artifacts, although it certainly has a highly useful and effective pattern overall.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

CHnuschti said:


> Indeed they have just changed it 1. Aug. 2013. Bikes now must have a fixed OR removable bikelight (only in the night of course), battery OR accumulator OR dynamo, only premise is it must have a LED indicating the charge status, so nobody can say "hey, my batterie has just gone empty". But must still comply to STVZO, so not glare incoming traffic, what in fact has led to the design of the IXON IQ, Philips Saferide etc.


Well I must say the news that the Germans are going to allow battery powered lamps is a good one. Since they still have strict standards concerning lamp design ( with beam pattern cut-offs ), this will mean there should be newer lamps designed either to work with both battery and dynamo or just battery alone. Personally I'd like to see some hybrid designs, something that uses both batteries and dynamo.

The beam pattern output of the Luxos IQ2 is making me take the German lamp designs a little more seriously. With the right output intensity these could work really well for road use.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Well I must say the news that the Germans are going to allow battery powered lamps is a good one. Since they still have strict standards concerning lamp design ( with beam pattern cut-offs ), this will mean there should be newer lamps designed either to work with both battery and dynamo or just battery alone. Personally I'd like to see some hybrid designs, something that uses both batteries and dynamo.
> 
> The beam pattern output of the Luxos IQ2 is making me take the German lamp designs a little more seriously. With the right output intensity these could work really well for road use.


yeah i don't think the output is close to what you would want for road use at this point. perfect for MUP though.

as for Dynamos there really is no point to them IMO. they only put out 3 watts max. that's not enough to drive even a single XML. also, a single lithium cell can replace a Dynamo for 3 hours. dual cell pack can replace a Dynamo for 6 hours and so on. just pointless outdated technology.

i guess i'm repeating myself for the nth time on this point but i really don't understand what people see in dynamos and so far nobody has revealed what it is that they see in them.

i think you need 1000+ lumens for road use. that's 10+ watts. you would need four dynamos for this, or just a four cell battery pack.

busch & muller has a perfect light for the road - the Big Bang - only problem is its $750. it's an HID.


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## CHnuschti (Nov 12, 2008)

@cat-man-do / androgen
I would not put too much hope at all for a kind of flood of new lamps because in germany the regulations have just changed. In fact the drop of the obligation for a dynamo powered light is just a legal catch up with the realities, that everybody used battery powered lights anyway. Since years, this was not prosecuted at all, if you had a front&back light of whatever kind everybody was satisfied. The Ixon IQ and the Philips Saferide do in fact reflect that trend since a while.

As for the dynamo lights I also would not put too much hope into it. Of course the improvements in the last years were impressive, but IMO they can never compete with battery powered lights, even the very first popular dealxtreme lamp SSC P7 with some 500 lumen beats every dynamo light.

And as for the "Big Bang", I think you widely overestimate it. Unfortunately, there aren't many comparative beamshots. This lamp is very old, appeared in 2007 or so and is unchanged since then. On the paper she puts out 500 lumen or so, in reality they seem to be some 300-400 lumen. I doubt it justifies its high costs. Not to speak from the bulb with its limited life. The lupine Edison, also HID, was the strongest lupine light at that time and she put out measured, real 500 lumen (but had no cut-off). She is not even maintained anymore, since the bulbs are not available anymore on the market ... HID bike lights, IMO predestinated for extinction.
The Philips Saferide has measured, real 320 lumen.

That announced spark SBD100 seems to me to be one of the best promises ATM, if you're about a light with cut-offs via reflectors.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

CHnuschti said:


> @cat-man-do / androgen
> I would not put too much hope at all for a kind of flood of new lamps because in germany the regulations have just changed. In fact the drop of the obligation for a dynamo powered light is just a legal catch up with the realities, that everybody used battery powered lights anyway. Since years, this was not prosecuted at all, if you had a front&back light of whatever kind everybody was satisfied. The Ixon IQ and the Philips Saferide do in fact reflect that trend since a while.
> 
> As for the dynamo lights I also would not put too much hope into it. Of course the improvements in the last years were impressive, but IMO they can never compete with battery powered lights, even the very first popular dealxtreme lamp SSC P7 with some 500 lumen beats every dynamo light.
> ...


you are absolutely 100% right !

i found this resource:

Headlamps with cutoff that run on batteries that could be of interest

according to which i have somehow picked up the light with the most bang for the buck ( Philips ) purely by accident. well the reason i picked up Philips was because

1 - it was reviewed by MTBR and
2 - it was sold by Amazon, which is a store i trust

but damn i had no idea my little $130 Philips is as bright as $750 B&M Big Bang. ok you know what screw B&M. there is something wrong with them if they're selling 5 year old lights for $750. screw them.

now from the link above the light that i'm really interested is the Dosun D1. there is actually now Dosun D600 but it doesn't appear to be available. on the other hand Dosun D1 is available.

here is manufacturer page for Dosun D1:

Untitled Document

and here is the beamshot comparison with philips saferide:

here is the Dosun D1 beam shot:

https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/t.../D1_bright_high__77533962_org.v1304180280.jpg

compared to Philips SafeRide beam shot:

https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/t...vienna/LBL_high__77534153_org.v1304179925.jpg

certainly the Philips has nicer color, but otherwise look comparable ...

now again Dosun is a chinese company ... and their light is more than double the cost of Philips ... LOL ... but in the beam shots it is as bright as the Philips and it has an external lithium battery whereas the Philips has internal AA batteries. that's a big difference.

also the Dosun is the only non-philips light in this category that is all-metal. the B&M are all plastic. even the IQ2 only has a metal top.

but with Philips the metal design is actually a downside because due to its size it is very heavy. the Dosun is small, so metal there is not going to result in a weight penalty as big.

i'm really excited about this Dosun D1. unless there's something terribly wrong with it - it should basically be like Philips but with 3.5 hour run time versus 2 hours for Philips and with a smaller, lighter head.

what do you think chnuschti ?

it seems to be the opposite of B&M in that it seems to put down too much light in the nearfield, but when combined with a helmet light like L&M Seca i think it should balance out because Seca mostly projects far. the two beams combined should produce rather even coverage i think. no ?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

actually now that i think of it even though the output level of the two lights may be similar the beam patterns are nothing like each other:

philips:










dosun:










the philips has throw. dosun doesn't.

basically Dosun isn't usable by itself - it can only be used to fill-in the nearfield for another light like Seca. whereas the Philips can illuminate the whole road by itself. the Philips projects 2X as far despite costing 1/3 as much. damn.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

i captured beam shots from a youtube video. the first / top one is Philips LBL, the Second one is Dosun D1 and the third one is a Photoshop composite i made of the two mixed in 50/50 ratio. 

the third one represents what both lights would look like together, except that of course both lights together would have double the brightness, whereas the photoshop composite is only the average of the two beams, not the sum of them.


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