# pedaling out of the saddle



## skaplan86 (Oct 17, 2007)

so i have been watching these *****in mtb movies and good riders and such, and the biggest difference i notice between their riding and mine is that they pedal out of the saddle a lot... I find that if i try to pedal while out of the saddle it #1 throws my balance off and #2 takes a ton of energy... This leads me to believe that i am not doing it correctly... On the videos it basically looks like they stay in the seated position while hovering an inch or so above the saddle... regardless of terrain where is the ideal place for your weight distribution? i find that i usually end up leaning forward more when im out of the saddle (good for climbing but makes downhill pedaling undoable)... do i just need to make a concious effort of keeping my weight back and pedaling? which will allow me to pedal while descending and not necessarily have to sit down to do it? I know i need to practice, but i want to make sure i am practicing the right stuff... Thanks


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## EDDIE JONES (Mar 26, 2005)

That is called the attack position. It is useful in many aspects of riding trails. You can soak up bigger hits and pedal faster in that position. As you saw, don't stand up.....hover over the seat and you will be amazed what you can ride thru, climb, etc.....


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## skaplan86 (Oct 17, 2007)

it just seems like its such an awkward position... like the bottom of doing squats or something... maybe im just not used to it? i can only maintain that position for like 30 seconds or so at a time not on a bike, i presume it wouldnt be any easier on the bike...


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## carrot_top (Aug 22, 2007)

skaplan86 said:


> it just seems like its such an awkward position... like the bottom of doing squats or something... maybe im just not used to it? i can only maintain that position for like 30 seconds or so at a time not on a bike, i presume it wouldnt be any easier on the bike...


just keep on trying to build leg muscles...if you keep on trying to hold that position when you ride, youll eventually stengthen the muscles that work when in that position and it will get easier and easier to hold it longer...

thats just my philosophy anyway......


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## EDDIE JONES (Mar 26, 2005)

Actually, stay seated when you are pedaling until you come to a situation that would require that position, ie. a rock garden, a climb....etc.....


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## screeemer (Sep 14, 2006)

I haven't made any posts in a while, but this one caught my attention. I was talking with some of the riders I know at work, and this was a subject of conversation. Some of them with FS like to stay in their saddle for the whole ride. I don't ride FS, I only have a HT, instead I have learned to hover over the seat almost all the time on more technical stuff or over rooty sections of trail. The more you do it the more you won't even realize it. I have only ridden on XC trails, no FR or DH, but I will say that on some of the high speed stuff, you would be really hard pressed to find me firmly planted in my saddle.


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## EDDIE JONES (Mar 26, 2005)

That position is a necessity on a hardtail. I have a FS and a 29er SS hardtail and have to adapt to each bike when I ride it. On the FS, staying seated actually helps but the hardtail would pound you silly in a really rooty, rocky, tech section.....The OP needs to work on his technique, conditioning, and skill level but given time he will be ripping the trails like a seasoned rider:thumbsup:


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## skaplan86 (Oct 17, 2007)

awesome advice here guys thanks... I forgot to put in that i am riding a FS bike... i dont see hovering as really helping during some of the things like it would on my hard tail... I can definately take more sitting down, but still being able to hover and pedal would be a good skill, especially for building speed through some ruff stuff... I come from a ATC riding background (3 wheel death machines for the win!) so im used to standing up and using my whole body for control over bumps, now i just gotta get used to pedaling in that position... no thumb throttle on my Rocky Mountain Slayer...


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

EDDIE JONES said:


> That position is a necessity on a hardtail. I have a FS and a 29er SS hardtail and have to adapt to each bike when I ride it. On the FS, staying seated actually helps but the hardtail would pound you silly in a really rooty, rocky, tech section.....The OP needs to work on his technique, conditioning, and skill level but given time he will be ripping the trails like a seasoned rider:thumbsup:


That well-seasoned rider will also be off the saddle in attack position on a full suspension bike and going even faster.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Like others have said you will learn that much faster on a hardtail if you want to keep all of your teeth and walk the next day because of back pain. You will gradually learn how to distribute your weight. I don't hover over my seat when I pedal uphill, especially if I'm tired, but peddaling out of the saddle for me is much faster, more control, and balance. I grew up riding a racing dirt bike on rough terrain so I was always off the seat. It just seems normal for me not to mention faster if you have the physical capablities. If I get tired I'll sit down and catch my breat then stand again. Good luck and keep riding. That's the best way. Just develop your own style.

Forgot to mention if you lean too far forward you will lose traction so you need to find the sweet spot.


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## skaplan86 (Oct 17, 2007)

thanks for all the great advice.... today is gonna b a good ride cuz i now some stuff to focus on... instead of just riding the trail, i will focus on how i ride the trail, i will be able to learn more now... thanks!


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## angelobryant (Aug 27, 2007)

thanks for the advice also.


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## corec (Jul 29, 2007)

This is a little bit off the subject, but I also have an issue with standing / hovering. I have a lot of really steep but fairly short uphills in my area. I try to make them while seated because I can maintain better traction, but there are often roots or rocks near the top that force me off the saddle. For whatever reason, I have a tough time making this transition smoothly if I'm really pedalling hard, and I either get too far forward and slip out or get too far back and the front floats up on me. I have no trouble maintaining traction and control if I start out standing and finish standing; it's just the transition. Is there a trick to it (ie - proper method that I should know about)?


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## teoz (Oct 8, 2007)

Like mentioned before, sitting on HardTail will kill u when going through ruff area 
When I do downhill or dirtjumps I take attack position coz I have more control over my bike, u'll also need some strength to handle the bike while in attack position


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

corec said:


> This is a little bit off the subject, but I also have an issue with standing / hovering. I have a lot of really steep but fairly short uphills in my area. I try to make them while seated because I can maintain better traction, but there are often roots or rocks near the top that force me off the saddle. For whatever reason, I have a tough time making this transition smoothly if I'm really pedalling hard, and I either get too far forward and slip out or get too far back and the front floats up on me. I have no trouble maintaining traction and control if I start out standing and finish standing; it's just the transition. Is there a trick to it (ie - proper method that I should know about)?


I had the same problem with losing traction, but just keep practicing and you'll get it. If you keep riding you'll develop more strength and may be able to attack the hill standing, which would just let you keep more momentum. Just keep making the transition from the saddle to standing and with practice the transition will become smoother.


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## burtronix (Jun 5, 2006)

corec said:


> This is a little bit off the subject, but I also have an issue with standing / hovering. I have a lot of really steep but fairly short uphills in my area. I try to make them while seated because I can maintain better traction, but there are often roots or rocks near the top that force me off the saddle. For whatever reason, I have a tough time making this transition smoothly if I'm really pedalling hard, and I either get too far forward and slip out or get too far back and the front floats up on me. I have no trouble maintaining traction and control if I start out standing and finish standing; it's just the transition. Is there a trick to it (ie - proper method that I should know about)?


Build up some speed before hitting the rough section so that your momentum can help carry you through. You will also find that as you lift off of the seat just before hitting the rough spot, you have better ability to control how your wheels float over the obtacle by lightening first the front wheel & then the rear wheel.


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## jeffus (Sep 28, 2007)

I tend to start sitting, if I'm attacking a short hill or obstacle then hover so I can move my body weight around over rocks , while still trying to keep traction, then I will try to keep the attack position and pedal, then I usually run out of steam  I ride my hardtail and full susser the same but no back ache on the susser, 
I have a section on a trail which I have only just conquered a small short hill section, it starts out down hill small stones then goes through mud then a small bridge then a steep rocky climb with a large bolder half way up, your tyres start out wet and thick with mud then you hit all the gravel and loose rock, and some how you have to lift the front end up and over the bolder half way up and as you near the top it narrows and becomes sandy, it's the best place I've found for improving my pedal skills, I'm sure we all have a place like this  I had the biggest grin yesterday when I made it , it was achieved by improving my skills pedalling standing / hovering.


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## CT Rock Gardener (Sep 6, 2007)

corec said:


> This is a little bit off the subject, but I also have an issue with standing / hovering. I have a lot of really steep but fairly short uphills in my area. I try to make them while seated because I can maintain better traction, but there are often roots or rocks near the top that force me off the saddle.
> 
> I know exactly what you are talking, my hills are also short and steep and I always seemed to get caught by a root or rock in that final 1/4 of the hill and have to hike to the top. I was making the same mistake you were, staying in the saddle too long and trying to pedal my way up in a lower gear. Now I start and finish hills out of the saddle. It's soo important to keep your momentum otherwise you can't roll over stuff. The fact is you can generate much more speed and power standing then sitting regardless of FS or HT. Maybe it was my former roadie mentality where I could just drop a few gears and climb anything while seated, but it took a while to realize how important it is to ride in the 'attack' position on a mountain bike. And it's not just for hills, any technical spot can be cleared easier while standing.


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## mikeym (Sep 30, 2007)

can somebody post up a picture in reference 

thanks!


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## CT Rock Gardener (Sep 6, 2007)

I think this short video of Ned Overend testing the '08 Stumpjumper really hits it home. Here is a world champ riding perhaps the cushiest trail bike on the market and he pops out of the saddle all the time. Once you filter out the sales hype, you can see just how fluid a rider he is and get a good idea of what the attack position looks like.


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## mikepro (Sep 11, 2007)

CT Rock Gardener said:


> corec said:
> 
> 
> > I was making the same mistake you were, staying in the saddle too long and trying to pedal my way up in a lower gear. Now I start and finish hills out of the saddle. It's soo important to keep your momentum otherwise you can't roll over stuff. The fact is you can generate much more speed and power standing then sitting regardless of FS or HT. Maybe it was my former roadie mentality where I could just drop a few gears and climb anything while seated, but it took a while to realize how important it is to ride in the 'attack' position on a mountain bike. And it's not just for hills, any technical spot can be cleared easier while standing.
> ...


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## corec (Jul 29, 2007)

*another climbing question*

Thanks, I'll work on hovering when I go into the climb. Also, watching that video makes me think that I tend to pull myself off the saddle with my hands rather than stand up with my legs. We'll see how it turns out.

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but here's another climbing question for you: How do you ride up a gravelly hill? Several of these short, steep hills have a layer of golf ball sized rocks on top of dirt or sand. One of these (my current nemesis), I have never even come close to clearing. As soon as I hit that gravel, I can't keep traction no matter how far back or how low I get. :madman:

It makes me feel a little better seeing lots of other footprints in the sand, but there are still some tire tracks going all the way up. How do people get through this? Is there a technique that I could try?


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## burtronix (Jun 5, 2006)

corec said:


> Thanks, I'll work on hovering when I go into the climb. Also, watching that video makes me think that I tend to pull myself off the saddle with my hands rather than stand up with my legs. We'll see how it turns out.
> 
> Sorry for hijacking this thread, but here's another climbing question for you: How do you ride up a gravelly hill? Several of these short, steep hills have a layer of golf ball sized rocks on top of dirt or sand. One of these (my current nemesis), I have never even come close to clearing. As soon as I hit that gravel, I can't keep traction no matter how far back or how low I get. :madman:
> 
> It makes me feel a little better seeing lots of other footprints in the sand, but there are still some tire tracks going all the way up. How do people get through this? Is there a technique that I could try?


Those other tracks were probably made by a hard-tail with clipless pedals & the rider had lots of experience finding the sweet spot to keep up his momentum without breaking traction. A lot of it has to do with a smooth pedals stroke with no surges, & some of it has to do with body position & front-to-back balance.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

*Momentum?*



corec said:


> Thanks, I'll work on hovering when I go into the climb. Also, watching that video makes me think that I tend to pull myself off the saddle with my hands rather than stand up with my legs. We'll see how it turns out.
> 
> Sorry for hijacking this thread, but here's another climbing question for you: How do you ride up a gravelly hill? Several of these short, steep hills have a layer of golf ball sized rocks on top of dirt or sand. One of these (my current nemesis), I have never even come close to clearing. As soon as I hit that gravel, I can't keep traction no matter how far back or how low I get. :madman:
> 
> It makes me feel a little better seeing lots of other footprints in the sand, but there are still some tire tracks going all the way up. How do people get through this? Is there a technique that I could try?


Without knowing your exact circumstances, I've found that cleaning difficult spots on a hill climb often comes down to momentum. As much as your conditioning allows, attack the gravel by spinning up the pedal rpms before the gravel, then as your back tire crosses into the gravel, ease up slightly on the pedals. Keep spinning smoothly instead of mashing as you allow the rpms to drop.

This only works on a short section because most of us can only pedal smoothly over a relatively small range of pedal rpms.

Sometimes it works better to ride a tough section in a higher (2nd or 3rd rear cog) instead of the biggest (easiest) cog. It's tougher on your legs but you tend to spin out less because you don't generate as much torque. Similarly, the front of the bike doesn't lift as easily. Also it's easier to avoid hitting things with your pedals.

Walt


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## Lev Leon (Jul 7, 2015)

EDDIE JONES said:


> That is called the attack position. It is useful in many aspects of riding trails. You can soak up bigger hits and pedal faster in that position. As you saw, don't stand up.....hover over the seat and you will be amazed what you can ride thru, climb, etc.....


as a new dh rider , i was shocked when tried to pedal standing . ( thought that ive ended up with downhill only ) . but then i got my saddle haigher , and as you said was sitting\hovering . tried to pedal uphill , and the efficiency was granted right away !


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## sleepyguy1001 (May 26, 2014)

The attack position, or hover however one refers to it, is a tail kicker for a fat old new guy like me, but it makes so much difference once it starts to become second nature


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