# Need Mechanical Disc Brake System Upgrade (On a Budget)



## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Friends,

I have the Shimano BR-M416A disc brake system currently:

http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/media/t.../EV-BR-M416A-R-3064_v1_m56577569830706608.pdf

and I need to upgrade to semi-metallic pads (instead of the organics I have now) and need to upgrade to the Shimano XT rotors (instead of the SM-RT53 garbage I have now).

My LBS told me they called Shimano and that they recommend replacing the parts with OEM to restore power (big surprise right?) Well, I looked at Galfers, Avids, and Hayes...but I can find no info about what is compatible with my current Shimano calipers because I can't afford to replace them on my tight budget.

Please help friends...


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

> and I need to upgrade to semi-metallic pads (instead of the organics I have now) and need to upgrade to the Shimano XT rotors (instead of the SM-RT53 garbage I have now).


 What is the reason? need more info please.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

I have very decreased braking power when it is raining, and I also do some single trails in my area which have a lot of hills and I notice fade out often. Plus my pads are about done now anyways...


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Replace your entire front brake system now. When you get your inheritance, replace the entire rear system.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

The difference of doing that, versus what I am trying to do is the difference of a lot of money. I'd prefer my original plan...


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

neoendedsmith said:


> The difference of doing that, versus what I am trying to do is the difference of a lot of money. I'd prefer my original plan...


How much do you plan on spending on rotors and pads?


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I don't think you'll get much more stopping power wet, with semi-metallics and a new rotor. But, I could definitely be wrong. I'd think the increased stopping power of hydraulics would be the better move, even if you have to do it one step at a time. What is your budget? Maybe some lower priced hydraulics, or do they have to be Shimano? You can get an entire XT BR-M785 brake system for $140, 2 XT rotors and pads will run you $100.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

$26x2 for both rotors, and $13x2 for both sets of pads (considering I can verify these the ones I am looking at are compatible with these Shimano calipers...


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

For the hydraulics, I actually asked my LBS about that, and they said the modding required would be extensive sine my frame wasn't designed for hydraulics...so I have the old mechanical cable disc brakes...


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

buy shimano replacement pads. don't get generic unless you find koolstop ones that fit ( i coudn't online)
Amazon.com: Shimano B01S Resin Pad & Spring: Sports & Outdoors

rotors of the same size won't make much difference. icetech helps with fade, but I would move up to 180mm front (assuming you have 160mm front now) maybe even the larger size rotor

I would repost in brake time:Brake Time

some more info.
Shimano BR-M485 Disc Brake Pads B01S - compatability


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

neoendedsmith said:


> $26x2 for both rotors, and $13x2 for both sets of pads (considering I can verify these the ones I am looking at are compatible with these Shimano calipers...


Here's your answer.
Case closed.
New 2012 Avid BB7 Mountain Mechanical Disc Brake Calipers HS1 Rotors 160mm | eBay
housing.
Then use your current levers til you can get some speed dials,then you will have the best mechanical disc brakes on the market...and te levers to fine tune them.
You're done.
Z
BlueSkyCycling.com - Avid Speed Dial 7 Brake Levers 2012

Many willl agree..
maybe better rotors later on.
You're all set.Just get good cables and housing.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Thank you for the link to the Avids...my curiosity is definitely piqued...but it sounds too good to be true...only $55.99...and in Hong Kong...does this sound legit guys? I'll go for it if you guys think I should...


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

zarr said:


> Here's your answer.
> Case closed.
> New 2012 Avid BB7 Mountain Mechanical Disc Brake Calipers HS1 Rotors 160mm | eBay
> housing.
> ...


Here ya go.

Avid BB7 Disc Brake System Reviews


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Cool, thank you, all looks good.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

neoendedsmith said:


> Thank you for the link to the Avids...my curiosity is definitely piqued...but it sounds too good to be true...only $55.99...and in Hong Kong...does this sound legit guys? I'll go for it if you guys think I should...


Save me some.I'm gonna get some soon if they/re not all gone.Seems like if it was a scam,ebay would hae known about it by now.The deal is these are OE sets I think..not in original packaging and not original rotors.That's why the low price.If you have more $ to spend, get the official packaged version.If you want mechanicals, BB7s are the best.The Hong Kong part doesn't bother me...the purchase is backed by ebay protection.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

neoendedsmith said:


> Thank you for the link to the Avids...my curiosity is definitely piqued...but it sounds too good to be true...only $55.99...and in Hong Kong...does this sound legit guys? I'll go for it if you guys think I should...


Use some quality cables and cable housing, like STSP stainless steel housing.Check pricepoint.com for "Alligator" products, and read up.Here's a link-
Alligator | Brand | Discounted Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes and Cycling Gear at PricePoint.com


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Excellent, thank you guys, much appreciation especially to zarr, I'll see if I can make an appointment to have these installed right away when they come in!!


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## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

I've bought several of the Ebay/Hong Kong BB7's and they have been great, no issues. I'd also recommend going 180 on the front. Just changed a couple of my bikes to 180 front and found it gives a slightly lighter, better brake. Not night and day but just a bit nicer.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Good deal, thanks guys


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Zarr, my LBS said this kit appears to be for 6 bolt systems and not the center lock system that I require...any other guidance?


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

do not rush and get something yet, more likely to get something not helpful or won't fit. 
How heavy are you?
what's the current rotor on your front. (measure the diameter). take a pic of it if you can't measure it and post it here.

in the lower tier, hydraulics are inferior to mechanicals.

you can buy the bb7 (only need front) and just install it on the bike. you don't need to match rotors with calipers. I don't recommend this, you should upgrade rotor size as it usually makes a larger difference. You'll need to buy a matching adapter as well.

here's 180mm rotor
Amazon.com: Shimano RT53 Rotor: Sports & Outdoors

here's 203mm rotor
Shimano XT Disc Brake Rotor SM- RT78 203mm w/ lockring - Brakes

according to tech doc u linked
203mm adapter 
Shimano SM-MA-R203 P/S Disc Brake Adapter from BikeBling.com

180mm adapter
Amazon.com: Shimano MA-R Disc Brake Mounting Bracket (Black, 180-mm Post/IS): Sports & Outdoors


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

for further reading on proper rotor size
http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/160mm-180mm-203mm-777420.html


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

And even further. There are a few messy pages but the discussion gets back on track later: http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/d...king-160-vs-180-vs-185-vs-203-etc-840746.html


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

I weigh 145-155lbs and I currently have 160mm rotors on front and back. I'd prefer to keep that size so I don't have to get adapters to increase the size and add even more comploxity to this MTB, I take a minimalist approach to this (less is more)...

And yes that other thread is pretty messed up with a lot of unproductive back-and-forth chatter....

I really like the idea of getting the Avid BB7s off eBay for $55 (that's one heck of a deal), but can you guys help me find any compatible centerlock 160mm rotors to go with the BB7 at a decent price?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

2 ways...get some centerlock adapters or...centerlock rotors.
Rule #1...don't say you want to keep a minmalist approach.People who don't understand things say that.Once you feel more comfortable with what you're riding,and get the "feel" for your bike...that leads to greater interest.Google and read some things about how BB7s work that is different than other mechanical brakes.The main thing is you can dial in the inner and outer pads...other mech brakes can't do that.And the Speed Dial 7 levers fine tune your levers.
Also, from what I'm hearing,Shimano Icetech rotors are really good....the SLX and the higher level XT ones.
BlueSkyCycling.com - Shimano SLX RT67 Centerlock IceTech Disc Brake Rotor

BlueSkyCycling.com - Shimano Deore XT RT81 IceTech Centerlock Disc Brake Rotor

You can read up on them.For 14 bucks more, the XTs are prolly worth it.Plus free shipping at bluesky.
So for 55 plus the super duper rotors and super levers, pretty dang good mech brakes.

And don't forget to use good fresh cables and housing.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

you can buy the bb7 (only need front) and just install it on the bike. you don't need to match rotors with calipers. you can use with existing calipers.

adding larger rotor = 1 adapter + 1 new rotor greatly increases braking strength. You shouldn't discount it if you are serious about it.


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

neoendedsmith said:


> Thank you for the link to the Avids...my curiosity is definitely piqued...but it sounds too good to be true...only $55.99...and in Hong Kong...does this sound legit guys? I'll go for it if you guys think I should...


Read the following thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/rotors-striping-837598.html


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Ah-haaaaaa...I thought it was all suspicious...there's no way I'm taking chances even if I do save a little money. Thank you for those links Bob and cobba, my deepest appreciation to you both!!

I wish I could check BlueSkyCycling for some deals...the site seems to be down when I click any links on the homepage it says "database connection error"...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Also, while you can run non-Avid rotors with BB7 calipers, keep in mind that the braking surface is not the same on Shimano brakes or Avid brakes. Avids have a wider track than Shimanos. I am currently using Shimano SLX centerlock rotors with Avid BB7 calipers and I have uneven pad wear because no matter how I adjust the calipers, there is pad hanging off of the rotor. Avid makes centerlock rotors, but they're ridiculously expensive compared to the Shimano ones. I will eventually swap for the Avid centerlock rotors, but until then I have to replace my pads more frequently due to the uneven wear from using a Shimano rotor with Avid calipers.

And FWIW, I bought my BB7's from Fibica, but they came with Avid rotors, not HS1 rotors. Those rotors are spares hanging on my pegboard for now, though.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

The BB7 deal on ebay is OK...and if you keep the rotors you have now,it's OK. You could get some Icetech rotors as an upgrade,but not necessary.The Fibrica merchant on ebay that has the bb7s sells a lot of things,and has been on ebay for a while...but hey,get them somewhere else if you don't trust them.I'm trying to get a set next month beginning....I just got other parts ahead of them. so I dunno.You shouldn't be having any problems connecting to blueskycycling.com
Type it in direct.I never have any problems...only with pinkbike.com


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

@NateHawk=Yes, that's the same info I found out as I looked into it as well...the ridiculous centerlock Avid prices, the uneven pad wear, etc...

@zarr=No thanks on the eBay, rather ensure authenticity 100%...and blueskycycling.com still not working (tried from desktop, and my 4G iPhone to verify it wasn't a PC issue)...same error...I'm in Eastern USA, so maybe they are doing phased geographic updates to the listings (that's how sites usually get updated if they have more than one server that is...)


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I'm in Eastern U.S.- I just got on bluesky.
The Hottest Mountain Bike Parts, Accessories & Clothing at Discount Prices @ BlueSkyCycling.com
Anyway...their phone # is 1-800-585-4137
Call @ 12 noon eastern time- 9am in California.
No matter where you get the BB7s, they are the best mechanical brake calipers on the market...no arguments about that-everybody knows it.I'm going SLX hydros on my "premier" full suspension bike though.Mainly because I never used hydros.I just want some.
Well now you know about the BB7s and Speed Dial7 brake levers and good cables. (Jagwire Ripcord is one).So you're all set there.


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## jerry68 (Aug 23, 2007)

If BB7's is an answer, then it is usually the right answer. They work great.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

The Hottest Mountain Bike Parts, Accessories & Clothing at Discount Prices @ BlueSkyCycling.com back up!! Yeah, they were definitally doing some site maintenance.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Friends, is it safe to put Shimano SM-RT67 IceTech rotors (designed to repel heat because they are not designed to withstand heat) with Shimano metallic pads (Model E01S) and keep my current Shimano Calipers (Model BR-M416A) (which are not designed to absorb heat either?)???


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

neoendedsmith said:


> Friends, is it safe to put Shimano SM-RT67 IceTech rotors (designed to repel heat because they are not designed to withstand heat) with Shimano metallic pads (Model E01S) and keep my current Shimano Calipers (Model BR-M416A) (which are not designed to absorb heat either?)???


Just clean (wet sand) your current rotors, install metallic pads, and make sure your cables are in good shape. Your brakes will be fine.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Thank you for you reply, would it be a problem that I currently have the Shimano SM-RT53 rotors marked "resin pads only"?

I think that since they aren't heat treated they will warp with metallic pads...


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

neoendedsmith said:


> Thank you for you reply, would it be a problem that I currently have the Shimano SM-RT53 rotors marked "resin pads only"?
> 
> I think that since they aren't heat treated they will warp with metallic pads...


Do it anyway. What do you have to lose? I doubt that there will be any problems at all.

Shimano also says you must safety wire all the bolts on your brakes and rotors.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Excellent, thank you shiggy. I'll consult my LBS to see if they can install everything for me.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

BlueSkyCycling.com - Shimano SLX M666 IceTech Disc Brake w/Adapter
BlueSky has the SLX666 fronts for 79.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

@eb1888=That would have been perfect except my frame won't accept hydraulics, and I prefer mechanical anyway


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## Jag Brah (May 14, 2012)

neoendedsmith said:


> For the hydraulics, I actually asked my LBS about that, and they said the modding required would be extensive sine my frame wasn't designed for hydraulics...so I have the old mechanical cable disc brakes...


What modding? :skep:

Just changing your brakes to hydraulics won't ensure more stopping power _but_ it does help with the pain that comes with prolonged braking on mech disc brakes.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

neoendedsmith said:


> @eb1888=That would have been perfect except my frame won't accept hydraulics, and I prefer mechanical anyway


A hydro line is a fluid line uncut from lever to caliper. Installing a front may require a zip tie once the length is correct. Several for the rear. The SLX are alot more powerful than the bb7s. At this point you could test ride a bike with SLX or XT brakes at your LBS. Once you know what is available it is easier to make a choice once.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

Ah, ok I'll look more into this avenue as well...


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Here's a post in the brake forum talking about using his old Avid rotors with new XT brakes.(SLX are essentially the same)

"I haven't done it yet, but I will soon be doing this exact upgrade. According to my LBS wrench, he has seen no issues with the Avid rotors and XT brakes. He says it's the most common brake upgrade he does and it just plain works. No squealing, squeeking, dying cats, turkey warble, underwater sounds. Just good, solid braking after putting XT calipers on! Hope it's true! LOL"

Trying to save you some steps. Save your brakes. The SLX will go on your next build.


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## neoendedsmith (Apr 23, 2013)

OK, good deal, thank you.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

neoendedsmith said:


> Excellent, thank you shiggy. I'll consult my LBS to see if they can install everything for me.


My point about the safety wires is they are NOT necessary despite what Shimano claims, and the rotors should be fine with metallic pads.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

if you want better brakes with the least amount of $ spent, follow my suggestion above upgrading rotor size. If you want to spend more and get something new get the below. BB7 are the best mechanicals and the slx/xt are the best hydros on the market right now. If they are even around the same price get the slx.

Hydros can fit on any bike that a mechanical fits on.



eb1888 said:


> BlueSkyCycling.com - Shimano SLX M666 IceTech Disc Brake w/Adapter
> BlueSky has the SLX666 fronts for 79.


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