# Muscle recovery Delay !! Info Needed!!!



## goofyarcher (Jul 12, 2020)

I have noticed that when I ride hard it takes 4 to 5 days for muscles to "recover", It would be great to be able to ride 3 to 4 days a week, back to back rides seem to hurt my strength. Even after a Sat, Sunday, Ride My legs are toast for several days.
Does anyone else have issues with recovery, or is that just a "old man thing"?

Personal Stats
61 years old, 200 lbs (90kg) 6'1 (185cm) , Still fairly strong can bench over 120 kg, have a great diet
I ride 35 to 50 Miles, a week on MTN bike with elevations. and climb/walk 12 flights of stairs every day Mon-Fri each day.

frustrated Mind is willing but legs are done!!! 4 to 6-day recovery is the pits.
I refuse to give in to age, any thoughts on training, or Suplments?


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## UPSed (Dec 26, 2010)

I walk 8-10 miles a day at work and ride my bike on the weekends. This last weekend I rode 55 miles and climbed 7k feet total. When I'm on vacation, I'll ride every day, unless of course my wife makes me go hiking. 
No special diet or anything. On occasion, my legs will be sore in the beginning of a ride but they'll come around in 15 minutes or so. 
I honestly think it's my job that has conditioned me to go all day every day. 
I'm 58 and 5' 11' 205 lbs.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

There are no ways to drastically improve your recovery. Anyone, even a pro, if they go hard is going to need extended time to recover. As you age recovery slows down and there are no magic foods or supplements to get around this (hormone replacement will help). Pros ride using the 80/20 rule. 80% of your rides should be easy and 20% hard, this enables them to maximize training volume. So the best thing is to do more easy rides, you don’t have to go for PRs every time you go out. If you ride hard too often you will end up overtraining where you have dug yourself a deep hole and the only way out is to stop riding altogether for 1-2 weeks to allow your body to recover. However with all that said there are some things you can do to maximize your recovery. Within two hours of the end of your ride you need to take in about 400 calories of carbohydrates to replenish glycogen. A little protein is helpful, but at this point carbs are vastly more important. DO NOT drink beer, this is the absolute worst thing you can have for recovery despite what the bros say. Get at least 8 hours of sleep each night. Massage your legs with a foam roller. Do not soak in cold water or take anti inflammatories, these will reduce swelling and ease pain but actually lessens your recovery.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I am 60, and I also find that it takes me a long time to recover after a hard effort. I'd like to do more hard training rides to get fitter and faster, but I can't because I don't recover from them. I found that doing more base building, keeping your heart rate in the aerobic zone, helps somewhat. But when trail riding it's pretty much impossible to keep my heart rate low on the climbs, so I just try to take it easy overall. I can keep my heart rate in the aerobic zone during a run, so I do some running too. I'm thinking an e-mtb might be a good tool to do some trail riding while keeping my heart rate in the aerobic zone.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

I've been at this a long time, and, of course, recovery gets slower as we age, but I've found recovery drinks actually help.

I hate the things, preferring my post-ride calories to be more in the "reward" category, but drinks like Recoverite and Swiss RX are not all smoke and mirrors.

Though vastly overpriced IMO.

And post-ride self-massage of all leg parts is also gold. Don't wait too long.


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## celler (Oct 14, 2012)

ljsmith said:


> There are no ways to drastically improve your recovery. Anyone, even a pro, if they go hard is going to need extended time to recover. As you age recovery slows down and there are no magic foods or supplements to get around this (hormone replacement will help). Pros ride using the 80/20 rule. 80% of your rides should be easy and 20% hard, this enables them to maximize training volume. So the best thing is to do more easy rides, you don’t have to go for PRs every time you go out. If you ride hard too often you will end up overtraining where you have dug yourself a deep hole and the only way out is to stop riding altogether for 1-2 weeks to allow your body to recover. However with all that said there are some things you can do to maximize your recovery. Within two hours of the end of your ride you need to take in about 400 calories of carbohydrates to replenish glycogen. A little protein is helpful, but at this point carbs are vastly more important. DO NOT drink beer, this is the absolute worst thing you can have for recovery despite what the bros say. Get at least 8 hours of sleep each night. Massage your legs with a foam roller. Do not soak in cold water or take anti inflammatories, these will reduce swelling and ease pain but actually lessens your recovery.


Thanks for the post. Good practical advice. I have started having a Banana after a ride whcih seems like the right thing to do. I also recently started drinking some NA or extra light beer replacing regular beer, so I am curious what is so bad about drinking beer. Is it the carbs in beer are the wrong kind or is it the dehydrating effect of alcohol. Serious question as I need to get a little smarter as I age.


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## barelfly (Jun 27, 2008)

Riding more often will aid in your body accepting the activity. I felt the same way when I started riding more often, thought omg how can i ride through this soreness, but as I increased the frequency as well as the mileage, my body adapted.

the other add to my routine, stretching/yoga every day for 20-30 minutes. I truly believe this has so much benefit to recovery. I’ve gotten away from it the last month, but getting back and can feel the difference.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

How many years have you been riding regularly?, if you're not 'seasoned' with regular rides for quite a while (meaning years), you might still be adapting to the volume you're doing. My most basic rule for the past 12 years has been: no more than 3 days on in a row, no more than 2 days off in a row (exceptions are allowed for sick/injury/travel/etc), and it has served me pretty well, I've had quite a few seasons being one of the top age group cross country cat1s in my area. The last year or two, I've been riding mostly every other day, which seems to work pretty well in my mid 50s. IMO, you should be riding 3 days a week at a minimum, probably not more than 5 days a week, and 1 of those 5 would be super easy, what the roadies call 'glass cranks' for active recovery. 

On dirt, mileage has less meaning than hours, I try for 5 hours a week on the bike minimum, when I was able to do 8 hrs per week I found some really good higher performance, but that faded when I went back to 5 or 6 hours per week (work, family, yard...). 

Remember that you have 3 components (actually 4 because recovery counts...) to training: Frequency, Intensity, and Duration, in that order of importance. 

You're what would be considered heavy for an XC racer, if you stick with a regular training plan I wouldn't be surprised if you get lighter, and I would expect climbs to get easier/faster. I remember a college training 'mentor' telling me that if you're doing a lot of training volume you will not be able to be anything but skinny, - but that would be quite a bit of volume, probably in the 10+ hour per week range (which quite a few fit riders do).

I have used creatine in my recovery drink, and also turmeric, with no real evidence that those are effective, but the turmeric really seems to help me with the sore bits from efforts or injury.

Massage and/or foam roller is probably good.


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## dsciulli19 (Apr 14, 2014)

celler said:


> so I am curious what is so bad about drinking beer. Is it the carbs in beer are the wrong kind or is it the dehydrating effect of alcohol. Serious question as I need to get a little smarter as I age.


I believe there is something about processing alcohol that inhibits the body's ability to absorb/synthesize protein, which your muscles will need in order to recover most efficiently. Not a scientist, but I remember reading that somewhere.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I don't think a beer or two is a significant factor, SO many racers drink beer regularly, often right after a race. I know a guy who sometimes races hung over (in his late 50s), and he's really really fast, just not quite as fast as if he's not hung over . If abstaining from beer made big difference, I think more racers would have recognized it by now.
I try to not drink any alcohol the night before a race, mostly for the hydration angle. I have had a beer or two the night before a shorter race, and not felt any negative effects, but I think you might be under hydrated during a longer ride which would not be ideal. I typically have 2 ipa's 3 or 4 times a week, and I'm still 175 pounds at 6'2" (formerly 6'3"), with an otherwise ok diet and some decent training volume you'll burn those calories easily.


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## Shinscrape (5 mo ago)

Up protein intake and figure out testosterone levels. Mind you the amount of activity you listed is a pretty high amount so you will need to program rest days.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

How long have you been riding? 

I'd say that if it takes you 4+ days to recover, then you're over doing it, and need to back off on the intensity or distance or both. Take more breaks during the ride, at least. Find some yoga routines for cycling.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Barelfly nailed it above.

Ride more and make sure you have your sleep, nutrition and body in check.


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## Shinscrape (5 mo ago)

After reviewing your training I would cut out the stair climbing if you are biking that much. I would do an upper body lower body split focused on strength. Only need to lift about 4 hours a week. Have a day where you do light cycling and program off weeks after 6 month cycles where you don't lift. The amount of exercise you are doing at that age is impressive but we are not machines.
Something like Monday intense bike, Tuesday weight training/light bike, Wednesday bike, Thursday weights, Friday bikes, Saturday bike, Sunday light bike maybe weights. It would be ideal to have one good recovery day where you give yourself a chance to recover. Also program back off weeks after 6 month cycles of your training program. Don't push to hard at hitting prs either run something simple like 531 for general progression.


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## Shinscrape (5 mo ago)

The weight lifting is simply to help prime you for riding. Not ego strokes 🤣


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

Training is stress + recovery. Getting the mix right can be a challenge. 

Good advice above. Your doc should help rule out obvious things that may be affecting recovery. For me, a 4-6 day recovery means my workout was too much. I would be losing fitness with that much recovery time and would be better served by lowering duration, intensity, or both. 

Back in my youthful days with my first mountain bike I would go hammer on the trails for an hour, 5-6 days a week. Those were probably all in the high tempo range of effort. No longer endurance work, no short anaerobic intervals. I probably would have raced better by mixing it up more, but I was having fun thrashing around in the woods. I bounced back the next day from those rides.

Yes, our recovery will take longer than it did back in the day, even with great diet, sleep, low stress, etc. Of course, if long hard days in the saddle that take 4 days to recover are what you like best, I'm not here to tell you not to. I myself am working on increasing my endurance for longer rides, but in my experience, duration/endurance is the slowest aspect of fitness to develop. I try to give my body the rest it needs to do the next high quality workout.


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## SabbathU71 (Dec 24, 2004)

dsciulli19 said:


> I believe there is something about processing alcohol that inhibits the body's ability to absorb/synthesize protein, which your muscles will need in order to recover most efficiently. Not a scientist, but I remember reading that somewhere.


Sounds about right. What's funny is that I read somewhere that a beer or two, post ride, aids in lactic acid flushing, as does chocolate! 🤷‍♀️
So, on the way home from a hard ride, I'll find a chocolate/protein smoothie from Jamba or somewhere, then follow that up with a couple of beers if I'm not too full. Works for me! 😇


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

This has eliminated my sore legs after riding. Been taking it for 4 months now and it works.









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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

ljsmith said:


> Within two hours of the end of your ride you need to take in about 400 calories of carbohydrates to replenish glycogen.


Speaking of "things that bros say".. 😏


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## Offspring (Jan 29, 2006)

Lots of good advice here. 2.5 years ago I started back up, slowly, on purpose. I have over 300 rides since then, for the most part a ride every 3 days on average. I struggled with the same thing during this process. What I have discovered for me is; a way to monitor your heart rate is a must, the majority of my rides are in zone 2 or just above with uphills into 3, 4 and 5., I have settled nicely into a m w f 16+ mile ride, t th sa for 2 mile walks, then su is off day. Feeling great and I'm your age. Good luck.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

GKelley said:


> Speaking of "things that bros say".. 😏


It’s actually something that exercise physiologists say.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

If you are bored you can read some of the possible issues with alcohol consumption post exercise in the link below. Not a lot of conclusive research has been done, but there certainly are no benefits to post exercise alcohol use. As some others have said, protein synthesis is affected by alcohol. 

Alcohol, Athletic Performance and Recovery


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## Brules (Jul 10, 2021)

Gonna throw this out there: hot bath with lots of epsom salt. Wasn’t ever a believer till I went back to the gym in March of this year. A nice soak in a hot bath with (2-3 cups) of epsom salt does wonders for my muscles and recovery. Did 

Also if you have access to either and ice bath or hot sauna, I’ve heard both of those are amazing for recovery of done properly.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Recovery should be use dependent, so if you really word hard and "damage" your legs, then yeah, you'll need more recovery.

If you understand the concept of ramping up fitness, then you know that overdoing it is not gonna help your cause.

I'm a strong rider, I ride year round, maintained good fitness since my teens. 

Last Friday I rode 32 miles of single track, ~ 5000' climbing, technical and sandy, I was beat at the finish. 
I took Saturday off and relaxed with Mrs. Nurse Ben 
On Sunday I rode 20 miles of single track, 3500' climbing, technical and sandy. At the beginning of the Sunday ride I was feeling kinda' flagged, but on the way back I started feeling my oats, finished strong, and the next day I didn't have any significant soreness.

If I had done another 30 mile hard ride on Sunday, I'd probably be sore and have a longer time recovering.
If I hadn't been as fit, I would have a longer time recovering and probably would not have been able to do a second ride the same weekend.
If I had been on vacation and I wanted to ride for a week straight, I would have done a few 20 mile hard rides interspersed with some shorter rides, perhaps finishing with a big ride knowing I'm gonna have time for a prolonged recovery.


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## RLTW (5 mo ago)

I remember competing in stage races, two to five hours per day in the saddle with no time to recover. Get out of bed, hobble around because my legs were too sore to move more than a little, struggle to get my clothes on, then wincing in pain to get my leg over the bike. But after 30 or so minutes of riding, things loosen up, endorphins block the pain, and I would be riding as hard as ever.

Things which help recovery are good warm up and warm down, a good stretching routine, and eating properly before, during, and after the ride. If you are recovering quickly, you might not be riding hard enough.


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## goofyarcher (Jul 12, 2020)

As I said in my original post, I hate to wait for my legs to recover.
I did not do a good job in my orginal post of articulation my thoughts
all my riding is trail/mtn
My muscle mass is growing, and my legs getting some size.
My strength is not recovering near as fast as I would like. ( AGE sucks)
Sore legs are not an issue. Im way past sore muscles.

Do you feel the below schedule could be over training - if so remove what ? or Change what?
My current riding schedule is :
Mon-Friday 12-15 flights of stairs
Tues or Wed "fairly easy ride" 8-10 miles with 800 feet elevation.
Friday PM a quick 8 mile relaxed ride maybe 350 feet elevation (My wind down from weekly stress)
Saturday a HARD 20-28 miles with lots of tech climbs and a timed fast lap (all mtn/trail, i don't like road)
Sunday Quick easy 8-12 mile ride before church
.

What I'm seeing is by : Sunday even an easy ride, the legs are just gone.
This is a better example of what I would like to improve on. 

I don't Drink any alcohol at all, I eat very well, and protein load and add carbs post ride.
next thing on my list it is to see what my T levels are, next month


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## barelfly (Jun 27, 2008)

Your ride schedule seems fine. But Sunday your legs will be toast after that 20-28 mile ride, especially if you are going hard. 

how long have you been riding with this schedule? It just takes time more than anything. Perhaps ease up on the flights of stairs late in the week so you have fresh legs saturday and recovery ride on Sunday?


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## goofyarcher (Jul 12, 2020)

barelfly said:


> Your ride schedule seems fine. But Sunday your legs will be toast after that 20-28 mile ride, especially if you are going hard.
> 
> how long have you been riding with this schedule? It just takes time more than anything. Perhaps ease up on the flights of stairs late in the week so you have fresh legs Saturday and a recovery ride on Sunday?


A couple years of riding, (well took up riding again)
I have focused on my Saturday "training rides" , Slowly increasing them to my current level. The past 3 months I have settled in on my schedule. 
I did took a 2 month break in Feb March, I had a pacemaker surgery and a couple of heart attacks (MI) in January, 
After my surgery, I just hiked during that time.

An yes lowering the stairs is logical, recovery days


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## barelfly (Jun 27, 2008)

goofyarcher said:


> A couple years of riding, (well took up riding again)
> I have focused on my Saturday "training rides" , Slowly increasing them to my current level. The past 3 months I have settled in on my schedule.
> I did took a 2 month break in Feb March, I had a pacemaker surgery and a couple of heart attacks (MI) in January,
> After my surgery, I just hiked during that time.
> ...


Well, I’m glad you are all good and out riding after that. Sheeesh! 

You’ll get to where you want if you keep this schedule going. If you can see if you can add additional mileage in on your shorter rides, but don’t increase the effort. Just add time in the saddle for a few months and see how you respond to that. 

Enjoy the rides!


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## NC_Foothills_Rider (11 mo ago)

Magnesium supplementation helps me a lot. I used to get cramps in my legs after big rides and my legs would feel 'rubbery' the next day or two. 

A lot of people are deficient in Mg and other minerals and don't know it according to some things I've seen.

You can't OD on it. If you take too much you might get diarreah.

Also getting enough salt can make a huge difference for the better, especially if you sweat heavily.


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## Pickers (9 mo ago)

Just ticked over 55 here and at the moment I’m doing more gym/boxing than riding - at least till the weather gets better…
I just got a massage gun which seems to work pet well. It has a few different attachments- I tend to use the flat head one on the lowest pressure setting. 
I find a 30 min. yoga session every couple of days helps as well.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

I saw someone say that 10 hours a week works well

I e mountain bike 12+hours a week, and my fitness had improved quite a bit since 9 got my e bike, 3 years ago.
Riding 5 days a week, and lifting, for legs, once a week.

73 though 

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

prj71 said:


> This has eliminated my sore legs after riding. Been taking it for 4 months now and it works.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rode 6 days in a row last week (Monday thru Saturday) for a total of 100.65 miles. Took Sunday off then rode 19.6 miles on Monday.

Zero muscle soreness. The stuff I linked above just works.


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

Bookmarked!


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## goofyarcher (Jul 12, 2020)

prj71 said:


> Rode 6 days in a row last week (Monday thru Saturday) for a total of 100.65 miles. Took Sunday off then rode 19.6 miles on Monday.
> 
> Zero muscle soreness. The stuff I linked above just works.


worth a shot, I am goin to doc next month hope to get 2 T shots a week we will seee


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Also, Try hard, easy, hard, rides.

Allow a bit of active recovery on every second or third ride.

Not every ride should be harry hard nuts.

Change it up. Do a pedal fest, then a skill session then a distance then a short and fast.........

Shock that old body with different activity and it will go "alright alright alighty then" and harden the F up.


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## Calsun (May 12, 2021)

There are many professional atheletes whose performance improved and their recovery time from workouts or big games, by switching to a plant based diet. Watch the movie 'Game Changers' that includes testimonials by pro football players and some well known body builders including Schwarzenegger. 









 The Game Changers Official Film Website | Documentary


Watch the Game Changers movie about plant-based eating, protein, and strength. Presented by James Cameron, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jackie Chan, Lewis Hamilton, Novak Djokovic and Chris Paul.




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Animal agriculture is the leading cause of global warming with the greenhouse gases from livestock and production of feedstocks. Leading cause of deforestation as well. Eat less beef and pork and cut your carbon footprint while having a healthier body.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Calsun said:


> There are many professional atheletes whose performance improved and their recovery time from workouts or big games, by switching to a plant based diet. Watch the movie 'Game Changers' that includes testimonials by pro football players and some well known body builders including Schwarzenegger.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m not so sure it matters where your nutrients originate; your body can’t tell, but I feel better knowing I’m eating for a healthier planet.

I’ve been a vegetarian for 35+ years, nearly vegan these days; milk in the coffee is my holdout.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Calsun said:


> Eat less beef and pork and cut your carbon footprint while having a healthier body.


But I like steaks and bacon damn it!!!


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## rakerdeal (Oct 28, 2008)

In my late 50's and up until about 64 I was like many who post here, I gave credit to this or that and I could basically ride any time I wanted and do some serious climbing and distance. Don't worry guys and girls, it doesn't last much past 64...or at least it did not for me. There's no food, no beverage, no roller, no yoga, there's nothing that can make it work out to ride all the time any longer. You just have to rest some and lower your expectations. Some days I feel quite good and ride my 20 lb 2020 Epic hardtail with abandon, standing and sprinting the hills and such. Other days it is the 2022 SJ Expert and I just spin around for 8 to 20 miles. But regardless the macho hero stuff similar to what's posted here and everywhere of the earlier periods of life wane and you have to deal with it. The good thing is that at 68 you can unload your bike while listening to all the excuses those often 20-30 years younger than you use to justify their e-bikes. When these guys look at you wearing your helmet they'll say, "Hey man...my doctor told me "blah, blah, blah" and now I use a few hundred watts of electricity to rocket me up the hills because of course I can't handle aging and have a huge need to go faster than you." Or whatever...my cynical side exposed I guess. Life is great...if you can stand it! LOL.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

rakerdeal said:


> In my late 50's and up until about 64 I was like many who post here, I gave credit to this or that and I could basically ride any time I wanted and do some serious climbing and distance. Don't worry guys and girls, it doesn't last much past 64...or at least it did not for me. There's no food, no beverage, no roller, no yoga, there's nothing that can make it work out to ride all the time any longer. You just have to rest some and lower your expectations. Some days I feel quite good and ride my 20 lb 2020 Epic hardtail with abandon, standing and sprinting the hills and such. Other days it is the 2022 SJ Expert and I just spin around for 8 to 20 miles. But regardless the macho hero stuff similar to what's posted here and everywhere of the earlier periods of life wane and you have to deal with it. The good thing is that at 68 you can unload your bike while listening to all the excuses those often 20-30 years younger than you use to justify their e-bikes. When these guys look at you wearing your helmet they'll say, "Hey man...my doctor told me "blah, blah, blah" and now I use a few hundred watts of electricity to rocket me up the hills because of course I can't handle aging and have a huge need to go faster than you." Or whatever...my cynical side exposed I guess. Life is great...if you can stand it! LOL.


I'm hoping to avoid the desire for a moped as I continue to age. The work that goes into biking is what I hope will sustain my good health and well-being.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

jimPacNW said:


> I don't think a beer or two is a significant factor, SO many racers drink beer regularly, often right after a race. I know a guy who sometimes races hung over (in his late 50s), and he's really really fast, just not quite as fast as if he's not hung over . If abstaining from beer made big difference, I think more racers would have recognized it by now.
> I try to not drink any alcohol the night before a race, mostly for the hydration angle. I have had a beer or two the night before a shorter race, and not felt any negative effects, but I think you might be under hydrated during a longer ride which would not be ideal. I typically have 2 ipa's 3 or 4 times a week, and I'm still 175 pounds at 6'2" (formerly 6'3"), with an otherwise ok diet and some decent training volume you'll burn those calories easily.


I wonder how many of these fast masters racers who drink alcohol are supplementing with testosterone?


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## goofyarcher (Jul 12, 2020)

I dont drink


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## GoldenKnightMTB (11 mo ago)

When your legs feel shreded going to bed, does anyone still try to ride at dawn the next day?


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## Daydreamer (Aug 27, 2018)

What medications are you taking? 

Quite a few years ago I had some problems with Reflux. My Doctor suggested taking some Zantac which I did. When that helped he suggested a script for Prilosec. After about six months I started cramping a lot on my runs. Also didn't recover as well. (I was predominantly trail running at that time). I was running the same routes before and after I started taking the Prilosec, so that was the only thing that changed. Some research revealed that Prilosec can inhibit nutrient absorption. I stopped the Prilosec and the cramping and recovery returned to where it was before. I switched back to Zantac and had no more cramping.

I had also been on Lipitor for several years. I took a very small dose and only 3-4 times a week. After several years I noticed that my strength on the hills as well as my ability to recover was decreasing. As I had just hit the big 50 I thought that it was age creeping up on me. After about a year of dropping performance and taking more time to recover I also started to have problems with Depression and high blood sugars. As those can be brought on by Lipitor and the other Statins I stopped taking them. The blood sugars stabilized and the depression disappeared in about 3 months. 6-8 months after stopping the Lipitor I noticed that I was running strong on the hills again. No more power walking. I would also recover quite well and could run hard 2-3 days in a row and still feel decent. I had never even thought about that because I really wasn't having the muscle aches that the Statins are known for.

There are many more medications that can really screw with your body, especially as we get older. It might be worth your while to check out that angle. 

FWIW, I switched to a low carb diet back in 2020 at age 55 and feel better now than I did at 45. After going low carb I have virtually no problems with Reflux.


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