# Well whats the lightest a steel frame bike can get?



## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

Yup my title says it all, so... whats the lightest a nice steel frame hardtail can get!:thumbsup:


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

How long is a string?


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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

1niceride said:


> How long is a string?


Ok.... I'll bite, as long as you want. I.E. as light as I want. I would like I have a goal to shoot for. I want to weenie out my older steel frame.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

A lot of older steel frames are up in the 4.8-5.0 pound range. That's about a pound more than a cheap alloy frame, and about double what a carbon frame might be. So you'd be at a 2.0-2.5 pound deficit to start with.


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## hedgeboar (Jun 28, 2011)

If you spend enough money, there are a few steel frames available at about 3.5lbs or even less. Scapin and enigma are some examples.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Your topic isn't clear. Are you asking about the frame only, or a complete build?

Just under 4 lbs for most people is about as low as you can get, with a custom steel frame. I have my steel frame built to just over 21 lbs. My build is set up for endurance racing, so some consolations were made for comfort.


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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

Well complete build of course. 

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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

What is the old steel frame you have that you plan to build and what does it weigh?


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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

rockyuphill said:


> What is the old steel frame you have that you plan to build and what does it weigh?


I will most likely get hate mail over this, but it's a 94 Trek 950. I have to get to a real scale but its right around 25 with a front shock.

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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

That vintage of Trek 950 was made with True Temper OXIII so the frame might be down in the 4.25 - 4.3 pound range for a 18", about like a Kona Expolsif from those days (before they had sliding dropouts). .


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

One problem you may run into using a frame of that vintage is that newer components may not fit.

You may also want to include a budget for your build as that will be the most limiting factor.


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## Bender (Jan 12, 2004)

For a modern steel frame and no budget check out englishcycles.com If you go with an older frame be aware the geometry is made for a shorter travel fork. I had a large Dean Duke soft tail made of Reynolds 853. The weight including shock was 5.25 pounds.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

Find a build on the weight weenie forum that you like (and can afford) then add the difference in frame weight to their total build. probably 2 lbs from a carbon frame give or take. 

ie if you can build a rigid carbon ss at 16# then you can build a rigid steel ss at about 18#


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## Backnsaddleagain (Aug 8, 2006)

My Cotic Soul frame weighs a claimed 4.4 lbs for medium. I haven't weighed it, FWIW. It can take a long for too.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I say 17 lbs for a front sprung, hardtail with full gear train, tires, wheels, pedals the works.

I'd start with:
-Independent fabrications steel frame with stainless tubes or a Dekerf Team SST in your size.
-extralite hubs front and rear
-Scrub raceday rotors front and rear
-Hope X2 Races
-Ti spokes
-Stan's ZTR race rims (or whatever is their lightest these days)
-all the german boutique stuff (AX lightness / Berk / etc)
-stem
-handlebar
-crank
-seatpost
-carbon saddles
-aluminum bolts at the brake lever clamps
-Sram XX drivetrain with the new 10spd gripshift or retrofitte 9spd gripshift to 10spd
-Wipperman Titanium chain
-aluminum 10 spd cassette from taiwan
-Eggbeater 4Ti (older generation)
-Powercordz 
-shimano Sp81 housings
-extralite grips

that should get you sub 18lbs.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The OP already has a 1994 Trek 950 steel frame he's starting with, so he's not after frame suggestions, he just wants to weenie out the frame he's got. That 1994 date also means it'll be a V-brake frame.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

In that case, load it up with vintage weight weenie stuff.

The beauty with v-brake frame, you can run super light hubs that don't need the rotor interface. KCNC has a nice set of V-brakes.

http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/kcnc-v-brake-light-296718.html

I'd also run an old SID prior to the move to 32mm stanchions.

Everything else should fit fine. The rear freehub body has not changed. XTR M970 generation still had V-brake levers and V-brakes available.

You can still put on all the boutique stuff.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The older 2000 vintage SID's could also be spaced down to 63mm travel so that's more appropriate. According to Bikepedia the 1994 Trek 950 shipped with a rigid CrMo fork.


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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

Sweet! Everybody I will definitely check out those kcnc!

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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

rockyuphill said:


> The older 2000 vintage SID's could also be spaced down to 63mm travel so that's more appropriate. According to Bikepedia the 1994 Trek 950 shipped with a rigid CrMo fork.


Yup it did I just got a rigid fork fork back on it yesterday, and went threadless as well, that will help. It won't be total vintage but I'll mix and match. Not much mad money right now but I'm doing what I can. 25.22 lbs before the rigid fork, and I know that that took off just over a lb by it self I'll get it weighed and post some pics soon!


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Just be advised that the KCNC brakes while light and super blingy for a v brake, the levers do flex and you may need to add a small washer to help smooth out the pivot action of them once they are tightened down on the handle bars. I have heard this from friends that were running them and had a similar problem with the cnc'd levers that I was running.

As for the weight on the steel frame, I think most of the posts are spot on. I had a GT Peace steel 26" that I got down to 20#. I wasn't running any really ultra light parts (expensive). However, it was only a SS set up. My frame was around 5.3 lbs alone. 
parts were:
Ritchey Super logic bars (carbon)
R. SL stem (alu)
Wheels: WI hubs, Velocity VXC rims, DT comp spokes, WI Trials 18t fw
Tire: Conti Race Kings (w/ tubes)
King HS
BB7 brakes (ti or alu bolts everywhere)
i-link cables
XTR modded m960 crank w/ home brewed 32t ring
KCNC ti pro seat post
Carbon saddle (smud or Merek-had both on it)
Speed play frogs (stainless)
x9sl chain

Like I said, nothing super special. I now have the bulk of those same parts on a 29er (cheap moto outcast frame) and the weight is the same! The wheels are the same build even. The difference is the weight of the frame. Dropped almost a lb off the frame weight running this cheap alu frame.


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## blak_byke (Jun 21, 2006)

Ok so I'm not alone....

First, the 930 and 950 were True Temper OXII and the 970 and 990's were OXIII. There isn't a significant weight difference....wait...this is the WW forum....there may be a very small weight difference.

I'm doing a similar build and not sure if I will go geared or SS it. As far as modern compnents fitting....yes they will excluding rear discs of course. 

Headset - 1 1/8"
Seatpost - 27.2mm
Seatpost clamp - 31.8mm
Front der. - 31.8mm
BB width - 73mm w/110mm spindle

All common sizes and plenty of modern and vintage choices to go with.

As far as forks go the SID (pre 32mm stancions) is a great choice due to the fact that its travel can be reduced to 63mm although 80mm will not change the geo much. Also an SID with V's flexes less under braking than with discs. Be careful with an SID with remote lockout as the lockout assembly will make contact with the down tube when turned all the way to the right. Hell, you don't ride with the bars all spun dang near 180 deg so this may not be an issue to you. Another good choice is a Manitou Skareb (80mm of course). Great light-weight XC fork, doesn't flex a lot and no clearence issues with the lockout assembly. Should you choose to go rigid, a fork with an A to C of 425mm should fit the bill. I have an Exotic CF fork that I will be using and the Skareb as a back up should my bones require a bit more squish.

My 2 cents....

Post up pics as you go or when your finished and good luck!


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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

blak_byke said:


> Ok so I'm not alone....


No your not... They don't make em like this anymore!


blak_byke said:


> First, the 930 and 950 were True Temper OXII and the 970 and 990's were OXIII. There isn't a significant weight difference....wait...this is the WW forum....there may be a very small weight difference.
> 
> I'm doing a similar build and not sure if I will go geared or SS it. As far as modern compnents fitting....yes they will excluding rear discs of course.


I'm doing gears. I've already made it a 2x9 I really need a lighter cassette but wow those are NOT cheap! 


blak_byke said:


> Headset - 1 1/8"
> Seatpost - 27.2mm
> Seatpost clamp - 31.8mm
> Front der. - 31.8mm
> ...


All things good to know!


blak_byke said:


> As far as forks go the SID (pre 32mm stancions) is a great choice due to the fact that its travel can be reduced to 63mm although 80mm will not change the geo much. Also an SID with V's flexes less under braking than with discs. Be careful with an SID with remote lockout as the lockout assembly will make contact with the down tube when turned all the way to the right. Hell, you don't ride with the bars all spun dang near 180 deg so this may not be an issue to you. Another good choice is a Manitou Skareb (80mm of course). Great light-weight XC fork, doesn't flex a lot and no clearence issues with the lockout assembly. Should you choose to go rigid, a fork with an A to C of 425mm should fit the bill. I have an Exotic CF fork that I will be using and the Skareb as a back up should my bones require a bit more squish.
> 
> My 2 cents....
> 
> Post up pics as you go or when your finished and good luck!


Well thanks for all the good info! I've got a nice cr-mo fork I got second hand, an old Specialized I believe not bad for weight, well for cr-mo 1020gm. Rides nice too.Well I need to find a hanging scale but I've got pics coming quick!


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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

Pics were promised so here you go! Sorry for cell phone pics but it's so easy to post them from my phone!

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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

11kg on the nose... or 24.25lbs got a long way to go. But with ideas from all of you we'll see what I can get to. I'm going to do stem, carbon spacers, alloy bolts and maybe a cassette, bottom bracket, and go from there! Well as I can afford it. 

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## blak_byke (Jun 21, 2006)

Work towards ditching the wheels at some point. I think that will be your single most noticable improvement. Have fun with the build! I think it's a worth while endeavor as long as you enjoy it. :thumbsup:


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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

Cool thanks for the encouragement! Just remember your not the only one that loves Treks!

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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

blak_byke said:


> Work towards ditching the wheels at some point. I think that will be your single most noticable improvement. Have fun with the build! I think it's a worth while endeavor as long as you enjoy it. :thumbsup:


I would have to agree! The wheels/tires will make a huge weight difference. So can swapping to a carbon fork down the road. There are alot of places to shave weight on this bike while keeping the frame but of course it all depends on how much you want to spend. Another area would be the crank. A newer XT crankset up as a 1 or 2 x what ever w/ an exteral cupped bb will probably shave some weight as well.

PS,
I just want to add that blak_byke has one of the coolest quotes ever!


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## blak_byke (Jun 21, 2006)

1SPD said:


> PS,
> I just want to add that blak_byke has one of the coolest quotes ever!


Yessir I do:thumbsup: My plagiarism is original lol!!


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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

Well here's an update, I'm getting there! Went 1x9 and that helped lose some weight. Not bad for a dirty old trek!

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## blak_byke (Jun 21, 2006)

Pics or it didn't happen :thumbsup: I'll try to post pics of my progress as well.


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*my sunn exact ti & modified khs team*

spend the bucks get that 950 frame swapped to take disks a simple job for a skilled builder...had my khs team frame done for the fraction of a new frame......:thumbsup:
spend the saved cash on brakes/hubs/forks/cranks/ king hset & BB etc........

The sunn well it's just stumping up for the $$$$$$$ ti forks/stem/bars, king hset/bb/hubs
go wild & enjoy.......b4 the wife finds out.....lol


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

The weight of my steel Niner SIR9 (Complete build 29er with disc brakes) is 8.396gms.


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## jaxom (Sep 21, 2011)

Well I thought I posted pics but i'll try once more.

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