# Getting Started....Buy the bike...What to buy?



## mrbmeisen (Apr 3, 2008)

I have read through the forum and have fallen in love with the notion of my 2 favorite things to do over the summer. Mountain Biking and Camping. I notice that really there are some bikes that you can pack more on like the Fargo, and then there are a multitude of hard tails. So what I am asking of everyone here is a little guidance on how to choose a solid platform.....

Here is some confusion and frustration I have with bike shops trying to upsell me on a bike or maybe they are right I don't know.....so I had my heart set on the El Mariachi 1 build, but now there is just the El Mariachi Ti/Build 2/Build 3. The bike shop rep tried to explain to me that steel is a way of the past and now Aluminum frames and Carbon frames are just as good and supple as steel. The weight is less and the power to the drive train is more direct. Also the tapered steerers on the Alu and composite frames are more responsive. A question I have is what about tensile strength of the frame? I am a clydesdale 6'1" on average 200lbs. So what was recommended to me at a salsa dealer was the Spearfish 1 with the through axles front and back or the mamacita over the El Mariachi. What are your opinions? Please help!


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Every frame material has its pros and cons, and it's fans and detractors. Throw in some marketing hype, and it gets really hard to figure out what's best!

Start with the basics: Does it fit well? Does it have a decent warranty? Does it have the features that you need? If possible, take a few different bikes out for test rides. Choose the bike that you like and feel good about--not necessarily the bike that a salesman wants you to buy. You're going to be riding it, not him.

One important thing to remember is that people successfully bikepack with aluminum, steel, Ti, and carbon fiber frames. Perhaps the more important thing is figuring out how to comfortably carry your gear, and how to get enough time away from work to head to the hills!

Personally, I ride an aluminum Cannondale. The carbon version was a lot more expensive, and I didn't think that it was worth the difference. If I could afford absolutely anything, I would consider a titanium frame from Moots.


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## eric_tfa (Apr 27, 2011)

Hi, I think you received some poor advice to be honest. Having worked at bike shops throughout college and currently working at one on the weekends I would disagree with the advice you received.

For example, at the current shop, of the 5 employees, 3 ride steel hardtails (including myself), one rides a Selma Ti, and the other a Spearfish. Generally from my experience shop guys ride steel and ti bikes, and steer away from carbon. I have aluminum bikes as well, but I love how steel rides, and I know others do as well. And aesthetically they are pleasing.

The El Mariachi can run a tapered steerer, the 2012 bike has a 44mm headtube, so you can run a tapered fork. Secondly, I know many clydesdales riding steel frames, steel is generally considered to last longer, plus can be repaired if necessary. I would look for a bike that supports what you need for bikepacking; ability to run multiple cages or racks, you want a versatile frame. With a El Mariachi you could run a rigid fork, or a suspension fork, pending on your preference. Plus it has braze-ons for rear racks, can be run SS or geared. I think an El Mar would make a great bikepacking ride.

In my opinion the bike shop employee does not sound knowledgeable about their product or how your goals fit into a bike. Go hit the Salsa forum and see what some people have to say about the Mariachi. Salsa makes great bikes, personally I have a Mukluk and I love it.

I would also advise you to just browse around, see what people ride for their bikepacking rigs. There is a good thread on here that just has pics, check that out.

I think all three rigs could be great bikepacking rides, on the Salsa website Bikepacking is listed as a use for both the Mariachi and Spearfish, not the Mamasita. I think go with what you desire, ultimately its your bike, if you like it you will ride it more. And thats the goal, to get out and ride.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

I prefer Chromoly for all my bikes but again it's preference. I would consider how you envision your trips. How light is your gear going to be? What is your camping gear now and/or what you will be taking with you? If you are going ultralight, then you are not terribly limited by bike. 

If you have bulkier sized/weighted stuff or like to bring creature comforts then you probably want to use a bolt on rack system. If so then it's easier if the frame has eyelets for a rack and is hardtail. You can use cheap P-clamps from the hardware store for any hardtail without eyelets but rear suspension is problematic for racks. 

I personally still use a rear rack and panniers. The shop was likely upselling you for sure though.


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## Mike Brown (Mar 12, 2004)

El Mar is a great bike. Spend what you want to get what want. Being able to turn the bike into a functioning SS in an emergency could be pretty handy in the backcountry...


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

The shop may be upselling and CroMo steel is definitely not used solely by retro nostalgia buffs with woolly jumpers, hobnail boots and pompom hats it has some significant advantages over other materials for some applications. 
Whether Ti is the correct material for you is pretty much down to what you want to do with the bike; the sales goon should have discussed this fully with you - I would ditch that shop. If you are looking for lightweight bikepacking with frame bags / seat twinkies etc (to borrow a phrase from Mike Brown) and something that works well as a mountain bike then a Ti or full sus maybe a good choice. 
If you want the option to or intend to stick panniers on it and do more adventure touring sort of stuff a mixture of tarmac / fire roads / non technical single track etc, then to my mind steel is the way to go, but this will end up heavier than a normal MTB.
I've discussed this with a few frame builders (I am in the market for an adventure tourer) The consensus was that main problem with Ti for rack use as I understand it is that to get the required frame stiffness to safely and comfortably carry 50lb racks is that it has to be oversized or made from thicker tubing than a corresponding butted CroMo frame so there is very little in the way of weight saving and it loses that compliance and ride quality that people associate with light weight Ti MTB's or road bikes.
So in answer a Ti frame may be what you want but don't discount steel or any other material until you've fully defined what applications you want to use the bike for.


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## mrbmeisen (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanks guys...that helps a lot. My budget is smaller than the spearfish 1, i am leaning towards the El Mariachi, with that price I can pickup some pretty decent gear on the side. I just have to cash in and test ride a few. I do appreciate the input...I like the mukluk too...can't afford 2 right now..... that one is my second choice....my primary now is a 2003 specialized epic with out disc, I would like to keep that as my weekend warrior bike....rite now I am trying to get the seat post bag and handle bar bags to ride with the epic and then move over to the El Mariachi. Then get the frame bag.


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## Dusza (Feb 18, 2011)

eric_tfa said:


> [...] With a El Mariachi you could run a rigid fork, or a suspension fork, pending on your preference. Plus it has braze-ons for rear racks, can be run SS or geared.
> .


I don't think the braze-ons part is true? :nono:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

tonzlero said:


> I don't think the braze-ons part is true? :nono:












El Mar seems like a solid bike. You could always run and OMM racks front or back if you wanted to carry panniers.


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## alanm (Sep 2, 2009)

Mate, if you have an Epic, put a set of these on, front and rear and use 
that. Cheap as chips compared with a new bike, you can spend the $ you save riding for months around Colarado, MOAB, etc... :thumbsup: 

The System

Its a good quality bike, will handle the load and take a lot of abuse. I'm speaking from experience, I own a 2005 Epic and Specialized would have a fit if they knew what I've done / towed over the years with it. 

Here's a vid;

Freeload - Bike racks, full suspension or not, touring pannier racks. J Nicoll - YouTube

Al


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## moabjason (Apr 26, 2010)

I like my surly ogre.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

What's the hole for on the non drive side swinger? I don't see a matching hole on the drive side.



vikb said:


> El Mar seems like a solid bike. You could always run and OMM racks front or back if you wanted to carry panniers.


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## Dusza (Feb 18, 2011)

IS brake mount


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## flatfendershop (Jan 7, 2012)

i would second the ogre for bikepacking, check out the surly section. +1 for steel.


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## mrbmeisen (Apr 3, 2008)

thanks guys, I have been test riding, fell in love with the fat bike scenario...I have talked a few shop guys and they say that i can build up 29er rims for summer...I am definitely looking into that. I would be able to ride all year long..


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## SDKbike (Apr 12, 2012)

Check craigslist!


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