# Question about Strava Moving Time vs. Total Time On a Segment



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Is it OK to correct your data for only moving time on a segment? In other words if the segment is 5 minutes long for moving time, but let's say you stopped to get a drink of water, chain fell off, or some other issue, and the total time was 7 minutes instead of 5 minutes? But your real biking time was 5 minutes. Strava should correct that for you, for everyone. 

I don't think you can correct it directly on Strava but can you manually look up your moving time in the total leaderboard and find the 'correct' ranking? Or is that fudging the data, since many other dudes may have a different moving time vs. total time on the leaderboard as well?

It can make a huge difference in ranking. Last month I did a DH trail for the first time ever, felt great about it, and then I looked at the ranking and it was 701/705. I knew for sure I didn't do THAT bad lol. And then I saw that my total time was 2-3 minutes longer than my moving time. I stopped to prepare for the DH segment just a few feet inside of the segment, that's what got me. If I only put my moving time in there it magically turned into 287/705, or 41% on time. Is this OK to do, just to see how you really stack up, or is that just pretending that you are the only one that happened to out of the 704 other guys? You'd never know how many others had a different moving time vs. total time, could you? Just seems like it's an unfair glitch to always rank by total time instead of moving time.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Nope. No fudging. I mean, you can look at your moving time and manually figure out where that would place. But it's not going to be recorded that way.

If you really care about your segment times, you need to know exactly where that segment starts and ends so you know EXACTLY where you need to put on the gas. 

If you try to edit your track to "cut" out stopped time and splice together the moving parts, Strava will detect that and it won't even let you upload it. Strava is very picky about how the timing and distance appears in the track file. It is possible to falsify the data and upload it, but we're talking about a LOT of work to do it manually to Strava's standards (which you won't know precisely beforehand, so it's likely you'll have to do it a few times before Strava will accept it). 

I have a device that throws all kinds of errors into the recorded data file (mostly duplicate time stamps, but sometimes others), and Strava will scrub everything except for the GPS positions and edit out the errors. 

It's actually not an unfair method. I wouldn't even call it a glitch. It's done this way intentionally, because why would you reward someone for stopping on a segment? On a short segment, it's not so hard to stay on the gas the whole time. But on a long one? Yeah, the total amount of time it takes you, INCLUDING stopped time, is what should count.

Should someone who goes totally balls out on a trail, but crashes because they're riding far in excess of their skill be rewarded for their idiocy over the person who rode the trail at slower speeds, more consistently, cleanly, and therefore had a shorter overall time? And then someone who can ride it balls out AND cleanly would be above both of them.

It makes complete sense to base it on total time, and not moving time. Like I said, if you care enough about segments to not want to kill your ranking by stopping just after the beginning of the segment, then you need to invest a bit into figuring out exactly where that segment starts. Study maps. Use a device that announces segments as you approach them. Something.

Me? Meh. Who cares? I'm going to stop where it makes sense to stop, regardless of where the segments are.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Your time is your time. If it means that much to you, ride it again. 

But, at the end of the day, technical bobbles, dropped chains and everything else that contributed to your time “count”. Additionally, that stopped time is recovery time. Which aids your ability to go up or down fast.

A year and a bit ago I tied for second on a segment with 10,000+ unique users. I had to stop for maybe five seconds to find the “trail” markers (this was in Moab). I was behind the KOM by one second. Could I chop that time out manually? Sure. I could also ride it again, faster. Seems that’s the better option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

I agree and disagree with posting only 'overall' time. In the end, I agree.

Thought about it many many times.
Dropping a chain or other things out of your control are entirely different than sprinting and taking many breaks between sprints to post a fast time.

I'd rather have my fast climbing time stick against a person that stopped 2 times to catch their breath and once to drink water.

With all the run training I've done over the years, I never feel good about myself having a fast mile pace when I stop my watch because I'm too tired to run that day.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

The segments are the competitive part of Strava, if you drop a chain or whatever, then that's what happened. if you arn't happy with the result, do what everyone else does, do it again, do it faster if you can.


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## abaughman (Aug 25, 2018)

I think total time is fair. If you push it to fast and have to stop your not the same as someone who can ride the whole segment without stopping. If you are that worried about time look up where the segments start and stop and get ready before hand. If you don’t like it try again. There is a lot of stuff that can affect your time, traffic on the trail, traffic at road crossings, equipment failure it’s all part of it.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Strava shows moving time for segments? I've never seen that.

I just estimate what I thought I should have got on segments, that's how I scored all my kom's


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> Strava shows moving time for segments? I've never seen that.
> 
> I just estimate what I thought I should have got on segments, that's how I scored all my kom's


The computer version shows moving time when you expand a segment. I haven't seen it on the mobile app version.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Forest Rider said:


> The computer version shows moving time when you expand a segment. I haven't seen it on the mobile app version.


I guess I've never noticed that before, it would be funny if you could edit it. Every climbing kom would be taken by someone who sprinted for 200 yards and then rested until they recovered, repeating as necessary until the segment ees completed.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

Over the weekend I set a PR on a climb. Reviewing results just this morning I realize that the first time I rode it was my fast time. I guess I hadn't gone far enough to close the segment. Notice the 18 minute time vs. the 8 minute moving time.

I was in good shape that year and rode it well. I was 2nd place of the group of 5 -the overall time was waiting for us to assemble and of course BS before dropping in.

I was amazed that I set a PR the other day -but now I understand why. I never looked at this segment and it's been 2.5 years since the first ride up the hill. With that said, I've only ridden it 4 times now.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

just ride
post your data

trying to massage the data is cheating everyone else who just rides and uploads

strava results doesn't matter anyway, and doesn't hold up....i know 4 different ways to cheat strava results to make it show whatever I want it to show. hell I can write fit files like some people write essays for money, much like the digital epo website will do for you

so, just ride, post it, ride again, and worry about your own results or friends results. 99.99% of strava is honest, .01% is BS in some way, [mostly motorized somehow]


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

If it took you 7 minutes, it took you 7 minutes. Not much to change.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Think of moving time vs. total time this way:

If your moving time is less than your total time, you know exactly where you can improve your total time.


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## bootsie_cat (Nov 3, 2004)

This^^^^!!!!

Just ride your ride and achieve your personal best.
Strada is flawed and it is easy to cheat Strava- Ever been doing a climb and your computer head says "ride paused"? What do you think happens there? It doesn't add back in the time that it thought you were paused for-

And all the fastest times were set before Strava!



127.0.0.1 said:


> just ride
> post your data
> 
> trying to massage the data is cheating everyone else who just rides and uploads
> ...


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

How does auto-pause affect segment times?


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## abaughman (Aug 25, 2018)

s0ckeyeus said:


> How does auto-pause affect segment times?


The auto pause don't affect segment times it keeps counting. It only affects your total moving time. I have had it where my segment times is more then my ride time.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

s0ckeyeus said:


> How does auto-pause affect segment times?


it doesn't, exactly. somehow, I think you knew that already.

but what it does is muck up the stopped time/moving time displayed on the device, or on any system that automatically displays whatever the device recorded as stopped/moving/total time instead of recalculating those numbers itself.

Precisely because of over-excited auto pause systems, most software ignores the device's reported moving/stopped time and calculates it by itself. Which is one reason I advocate just disabling it.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

This is where care needs to be taken when creating segments. IE they shouldn't be too close to the start or end of the trail. I've had plenty of segments where I've gone flat out only to stop at where I think is the end, to regroup with the boys. Meanwhile the clock keeps ticking.
If you get bored you can try work out exactly where the trail ends and start. I can think of one silly example that was about a 3 minute downhill segment, but the actual finish was about 300m away from the natural finishing point (IE the flat). So you had to keep going and sprint along the flat return trail.


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## bootsie_cat (Nov 3, 2004)

GPS based segments are estimates at best.
Have you ever done the same ride and had 1000 feet of vertical different from the same ride on another date?
Where did the hill go?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

How does one figure out the locations of the beginning and end of segments?

Thx

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

bootsie_cat said:


> GPS based segments are estimates at best.
> Have you ever done the same ride and had 1000 feet of vertical different from the same ride on another date?
> Where did the hill go?


No. I do the same rides all the time and the distances and elevations are always really close, often within a few feet.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I would suggest looking at the totality of the ride not just segments even if you prefer downhill. Strava will show your Avg Moving Speed. This is a VERY telling data point that will not be skewed by stopping to take a break as long at your not in the middle of a Strava segment. We all like to get PR's, beat our peers and buddies, and many of us are HIGHLY competitive. If you really want to get that PR then attack the segment again. As for moving time, it's not uncommon for me to ride a couple hours with no stops at all so the move ratio is 1.0. Even on these rides you can still nab PR's if you try to be smooth and recover well. 

I know a lot of guys who go PR hunting. They will take it easy, warm up, and may target a couple segments or just one to beat their own time and others they follow. When I ride I push myself really hard to improve, and constantly analyze all the data to see where I stack up. Probably the single data point I focus on most is Avg moving speed for a specific area, not individual segments as much. While I have several riding areas on my steady rotation, one venue in particular I may ride 50+ times a year. To get a PR is not easy when you have so much history there. You sound like you are competitive and are looking closely at your performance. Try to look at it more globally over the course of the entire ride. If your AVG Speed is improving over the same course and you want to beat your own performance this will tell you a lot about how you recover and how well you can sustain high speeds over a time frame. not just a little segment.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

Harold said:


> it doesn't, exactly. somehow, I think you knew that already.
> 
> but what it does is muck up the stopped time/moving time displayed on the device, or on any system that automatically displays whatever the device recorded as stopped/moving/total time instead of recalculating those numbers itself.
> 
> Precisely because of over-excited auto pause systems, most software ignores the device's reported moving/stopped time and calculates it by itself. Which is one reason I advocate just disabling it.


I guess the real question is why auto-pause at all? It doesn't affect me a whole lot, since I usually don't stop much.



richj8990 said:


> Is it OK to correct your data for only moving time on a segment? In other words if the segment is 5 minutes long for moving time, but let's say you stopped to get a drink of water, chain fell off, or some other issue, and the total time was 7 minutes instead of 5 minutes? But your real biking time was 5 minutes. Strava should correct that for you, for everyone.
> [...]
> It can make a huge difference in ranking. Last month I did a DH trail for the first time ever, felt great about it, and then I looked at the ranking and it was 701/705. I knew for sure I didn't do THAT bad lol. And then I saw that my total time was 2-3 minutes longer than my moving time. I stopped to prepare for the DH segment just a few feet inside of the segment, that's what got me. If I only put my moving time in there it magically turned into 287/705, or 41% on time. Is this OK to do, just to see how you really stack up, or is that just pretending that you are the only one that happened to out of the 704 other guys? You'd never know how many others had a different moving time vs. total time, could you? Just seems like it's an unfair glitch to always rank by total time instead of moving time.


Stops are stops. The real value in Strava is not any one result but the trend of data over time. PRs and leaderboards are nice, but they aren't the end all. I like to throw my phone in my pack and focus on nailing the ride. Don't mess with the data unless there's something obviously wrong, like driving home while still recording. I've had what would have been top 5 finishes end up being near the bottom of the results because I did an out and back and Strava started logging downhill segment while I was heading up the hill. C'est la vie.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Mudguard said:


> This is where care needs to be taken when creating segments. IE they shouldn't be too close to the start or end of the trail. I've had plenty of segments where I've gone flat out only to stop at where I think is the end, to regroup with the boys. Meanwhile the clock keeps ticking.
> If you get bored you can try work out exactly where the trail ends and start. I can think of one silly example that was about a 3 minute downhill segment, but the actual finish was about 300m away from the natural finishing point (IE the flat). So you had to keep going and sprint along the flat return trail.


I agree 100% and I've made several segments that start at the natural top starting point and end at a natural point, not necessarily the bottom of the hill. Still new to this and we'll see how that goes.

As far as editing data, you can can clip a segment to your moving time but it will still show total time, a feature I assume to be built-in to avoid cheating. It is what it is. A couple of times I forgot to turn off the app, got in a car and suddenly I had a bunch of road bike KOM's on the street. OOPS!

One other twist: if you ride a segment multiple times, the leaderboard will only show your best performance (PR), and none of your longer times. So if you want to really see how you did on the last ride, you still have to manually look up your actual time on the leaderboard and see how many rank places you fell compared to your PR. So you may as well always manually look up your moving time on the leaderboard while you are at it. Unless you are really good, you are just competing against yourself anyway, so just write down or remember your leaderboard segment rankings and then think of why you were slower that day (mine is most often because of mud after a rain).

I'm logging this all on an Excel spreadsheet to see how I do on certain segments with different tire size/width combinations front and back. I won't tell you the differences now because there is simply not enough data, this will take months or years to figure out which tire combinations are optimal for each downhill segment. And then I'll have some general idea of "This plus tire did better on this A type of trail, this 2.6 voluminous did better this B type of trail, 26 x 2.4 was same as 27.5 on trail C but significantly worse on trail D", etc. Gives me a good excuse to ride as much as possible!


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I am kind of a data geek, but it sounds a bit like you are overthinking it.



richj8990 said:


> One other twist: if you ride a segment multiple times, the leaderboard will only show your best performance (PR), and none of your longer times. So if you want to really see how you did on the last ride, you still have to manually look up your actual time on the leaderboard and see how many rank places you fell compared to your PR. So you may as well always manually look up your moving time on the leaderboard while you are at it. Unless you are really good, you are just competing against yourself anyway, so just write down or remember your leaderboard segment rankings and then think of why you were slower that day (mine is most often because of mud after a rain).


On the desktop version of the site, you can find your history for a segment in the drop down menu for the leader boards. This one shows a segment I ride pretty regularly. You can see that my times are pretty consistent, but occasionally I stop to visit with a friend on the trail or maybe encounter a mechanical.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Then that E-bike comes along for the climb...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

sgltrak said:


> I am kind of a data geek, but it sounds a bit like you are overthinking it.
> 
> On the desktop version of the site, you can find your history for a segment in the drop down menu for the leader boards. This one shows a segment I ride pretty regularly. You can see that my times are pretty consistent, but occasionally I stop to visit with a friend on the trail or maybe encounter a mechanical.
> 
> View attachment 1235997


lol, it looks WAY TOO consistent. but then I zoom in to check the scale, and I see what those outliers were and I lol because then the consistency looks more mortal.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Harold said:


> lol, it looks WAY TOO consistent. but then I zoom in to check the scale, and I see what those outliers were and I lol because then the consistency looks more mortal.


The outliers included stopping and visiting with a trail crew and dealing with a torn sidewall as well as socializing with a group before the segment finish line or after the segment start.

Here is one with a little less consistency due to frequent two way bike traffic and heavy use by hikers:









Rich, not only can you access your entire history for a segment on the desktop, but you can also access it on your moble app:


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Harold said:


> lol, it looks WAY TOO consistent. but then I zoom in to check the scale, and I see what those outliers were and I lol because then the consistency looks more mortal.


Nothing like videoing a segment for 2hrs to make your normal 2min times look weird from then on in Strava


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

I did an XC race once and finished 3 minutes behind the leader. I told the race officials that I stopped for 3 and a half minutes to take a break so I should be declared the winner. See why now?


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