# Some questions regarding Epixon or Epixon TR



## Slash64 (Aug 10, 2017)

Hi guys,

So I will be upgrading my xct fork soon. So my decision is to buy the Epixon/TR but I'm stuck with these factors:

Current fork setup:
26 wheelset 2.4" wide
9mm qr

-my current bike is heavy af
-Epixon can be extendable up to 160mm while Epixon TR can only be extendable up to 140mm 
-Epixon wheel sizes: 26,27.5,29 while epixon tr can only adapt 27.5 and 29r. If the EPixon tr, should I get the 27.5 version or the 26r Epixon?
-Trail-AM discipline
-I'm lightweight(112lbs specifically), how about the spring ratE? what shall I do with this kind of stuff?
-15mm qr or 9mm qr? Is there a huge difference between these two axles? Does my weight affect this factor?

What shall I do? I researched these related topics but still I'm not satisfied. 

OR

Buy the XCR coil fork, convert it into air with rebound and travel adjuster button? (extendable up to 20mm-160mm)


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## RonSonic (Jan 8, 2005)

The fork length you want will match the frame. Longer isn't better unless the frame geometry wants it. 

That XCT weighs two or three pounds more than the Epi. Getting weight off the front will improve handling and bike balance as will the much better traction. I'd say stay with the 26, that's what you already have and what fits the rest of the bike. 

Adjusting for your weight is easy, it's an air spring so just pump in enough to get the correct spring rate for you. This is usually expressed as "sag" as in how far down does the fork go with you sitting on the bike or rolling on a flat road. 

15mm through-axle is supposed to make for a more rigid front end. But it means buying at least one new wheel. Depending on how and what you ride it might not make a difference to you. 

I'd suggest looking at the fork upgrade as an interim step between the bike you have and your next bike. All-mountain usually doesn't happen on a bike that started life with an XCT. 

It will make a night and day difference in how your bike feels and handles. It's a huge improvement, enjoy it and learn more about where you want to go in a year or three with your next bike.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Call the Tech guys at Suntour. They'll give you all the answers you need.


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## Slash64 (Aug 10, 2017)

any answers out there?


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

RonSonic said:


> The fork length you want will match the frame. Longer isn't better unless the frame geometry wants it.
> 
> That XCT weighs two or three pounds more than the Epi. Getting weight off the front will improve handling and bike balance as will the much better traction. I'd say stay with the 26, that's what you already have and what fits the rest of the bike.
> 
> ...


I'm looking at air fork upgrades too (as little as $150 GUB and as much as $370 Suntour Raidon). So you are saying that it doesn't matter if there is a mm adjuster lever or not on the (left) fork, that you just fill the fork with air until you hit a certain sag when sitting and then a further sag when riding hard? For example if you have a 100mm new air fork, you fill up the fork with air until the sag is 25mm, and the hard riding goes down somewhere between 50-80 mm out of the 100mm of total travel? No outside adjuster lever needed for 80mm 100mm 120mm like the Raidon has? Because that saves around $200 to get a non-adjustable air fork for under $200 (it saves about 50% off the cost). And yes I understand that you can't take a bike with a stock 80mm fork and make it into one with a 140mm fork. I'm just wondering if manual mm adjustment is worth it for the extra price.


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

My main conclusion from reading suspension fork threads is, thank fek I'm riding rigid


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

MozFat said:


> My main conclusion from reading suspension fork threads is, thank fek I'm riding rigid


 I bet. Forks are the most confusing and contradictory of all component discussions. I'm riding lockout on one of the bikes now and it doesn't seem to make a huge difference either way, go figure.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

MozFat said:


> My main conclusion from reading suspension fork threads is, thank fek I'm riding rigid


I was also confused by richj's rambling semi-incoherent explanation. The first 2 responses summed it up pretty well, since we weren't given enough info to properly answer the question.

Missing: 

What bike is it for or at least what's the original fork travel? Since the original fork is an XCT I'm guessing that's around 80-100mm. If that's the case, putting a 140/160mm fork will make it ride poorly. Standard advice for increasing fork travel is don't add more than 20mm over stock.
What hubs? Some can be modified to fit different standards and others cannot.
Intended usage and budget would also be helpful. For instance, if you're only going on easy trails there's no need for 140mm travel.


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## Slash64 (Aug 10, 2017)

> Missing:
> 
> What bike is it for or at least what's the original fork travel? Since the original fork is an XCT I'm guessing that's around 80-100mm. If that's the case, putting a 140/160mm fork will make it ride poorly. Standard advice for increasing fork travel is don't add more than 20mm over stock.
> What hubs? Some can be modified to fit different standards and others cannot.
> Intended usage and budget would also be helpful. For instance, if you're only going on easy trails there's no need for 140mm travel.


Well this is not a built bike actually. During on that time, I got no more budget and I can't wait to have a new frame and fork because my bike before was a steel one and also it's a standard bike(seat tube, headtube, no disk brake adaptors). So I just purchased the fork(this is the best i can afford on that time) and the frame because I got no choice back then.

Koozer hubs. It comes with converter caps(15mm and 9mm adapters).

$150-170? That's the best price I can do since I'm still a senior high student.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Sooo...what length travel fork was the frame designed for again?


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## Slash64 (Aug 10, 2017)

hmmmmm. I don't know actually i think 120mm more or less? because it's a little bit slack, 67-68 degrees?


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

If you don't know, you should find out. Where did you buy it? Head angle doesn't determine travel length.


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## Slash64 (Aug 10, 2017)

ohhhh, thanks for that answer, i thought slack head angles adopt longer travel forks. Hmmmm, I just bought it in a popular bike shop near in my place. Here in my country, if you buy a brandnew/ 2nd hand frame that is not branded, the manufacturer also did not know what fork is compatible with it(as long mentality* such as long the fork can be inserted in the head tube angle no matter how long the travel, etc. they don't care as long they are rideable) and if you buy a branded frame(polygon, giant, evil, etc.) well they have specs provided in their description but the price would be the exchange here which is the thing that I can't afford since I'm still a student.

I think trial and error is the best thing to do with the fork if it's compatible with my frame here. but I'm still stuck with the 15mm and 9mm qr problem which I posted lately in the forum(wheels and tires topic)


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Slash64 said:


> ohhhh, thanks for that answer, i thought slack head angles adopt longer travel forks. Hmmmm, I just bought it in a popular bike shop near in my place. Here in my country, if you buy a brandnew/ 2nd hand frame that is not branded, the manufacturer also did not know what fork is compatible with it(as long mentality* such as long the fork can be inserted in the head tube angle no matter how long the travel, etc. they don't care as long they are rideable) and if you buy a branded frame(polygon, giant, evil, etc.) well they have specs provided in their description but the price would be the exchange here which is the thing that I can't afford since I'm still a student.
> 
> I think trial and error is the best thing to do with the fork if it's compatible with my frame here. but I'm still stuck with the 15mm and 9mm qr problem which I posted lately in the forum(wheels and tires topic)


That's odd and scary. I guess at least you have a starting point (the XCT in there now). If you measure the head angle with the XCT, is it the 67/68 degrees you quoted? Does the bike feel stable when you ride it? Do you have any pics from the side?

As far as the 9mm/15mm question, if your hubs support both go with 15mm if it's available on the fork you want. It's a little stronger and stiffer.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

noapathy said:


> I was also confused by richj's rambling semi-incoherent explanation. The first 2 responses summed it up pretty well, since we weren't given enough info to properly answer the question.
> 
> Missing:
> 
> ...


OK let me clarify, sorry and I will adapt my question for linear thinkers.

Two air forks are both 120mm. Fork A is $370 and has manually adjustable air adjustment to 80mm, 100mm, 120mm that you can do on the fly.

Fork B is $160 and does not have any outside adjustable levers, just lockout and a cap to put air in.

The question is, does someone really need Fork A if they can simply put a certain amount of air into Fork B that results in a nice ride without bottoming out at 100-120 mm?

OK end of simple linear logic, now back to muddled fork talk (and since I ride cheap bikes I know crap when I see it and yes Specialized bikes suck, see below):

As for 9mm vs. 15mm qr (or thru-axle), stay with 9mm unless you plan on buying a new wheel. That's the diameter (more or less) of the front wheel's axle fitting into the fork's dropout posts. If you buy a 15mm qr fork it won't work with a wheel that has a 9mm diameter axle.

I found a funny thread on here from a few years ago about 9mm vs. 15mm axles:

Alexgonzalezmi's Avatar 
The Specialized guys are using 9mm DT Swiss RWS with 28mm end caps. It's supposed to be stiffer than 15mm. Can't speak for Schurter.

litany
Quote Originally Posted by Alexgonzalezmi 
The Specialized... It's supposed to be stiffer than 15mm.
That's because whatever specialized does is the best thing ever despite the fact that their bikes are utter crap. My friend has that specialized/dtswiss setup on his bike--I noticed no difference compared to my dtswiss hub with fox 15qr. I think anyone would be hard pressed to see a change.

15QR is great and I feel it has a more more secure mount than the 9mm. There isn't really much of a weight penalty--kind of like how tapered steerers aren't really a penalty vs normal ones. Being a weight weenie is all about finding the best balance. We need those super lightweight parts but they also have to, you know, work and stuff.

Also if you get a 9mm you might want make sure to get the DT axle, my friend got some non-dt axle at the lbs and it bent after only a few rides--DT one is still goin strong though!


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

richj8990 said:


> OK let me clarify, sorry and I will adapt my question for linear thinkers.


This should be good. :lol:



richj8990 said:


> Two air forks are both 120mm. Fork A is $370 and has manually adjustable air adjustment to 80mm, 100mm, 120mm that you can do on the fly.
> 
> Fork B is $160 and does not have any outside adjustable levers, just lockout and a cap to put air in.
> 
> The question is, does someone really need Fork A if they can simply put a certain amount of air into Fork B that results in a nice ride without bottoming out at 100-120 mm?


Yes, if their bike is only made for an 80mm fork but they want to push it to 100mm while still having the 80mm option available for super steep climbs. The 120mm will suck on a frame designed for 80mm no matter what pressure you put in. The truth is, neither fork is correct for the situation and that's what I was trying to help OP by asking about the frame before spouting advice.



richj8990 said:


> OK end of simple linear logic, now back to muddled fork talk (and since I ride cheap bikes I know crap when I see it and yes Specialized bikes suck, see below):


Oh boy! Let the BS begin! :skep:



richj8990 said:


> As for 9mm vs. 15mm ...


Sorry, couldn't leave the rest because it's just so confusing and mostly incorrect. OP already stated his wheels have both 9mm and 15mm end caps, so 15mm is the obvious choice. End of story.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

noapathy said:


> This should be good. :lol:
> 
> Yes, if their bike is only made for an 80mm fork but they want to push it to 100mm while still having the 80mm option available for super steep climbs. The 120mm will suck on a frame designed for 80mm no matter what pressure you put in. The truth is, neither fork is correct for the situation and that's what I was trying to help OP by asking about the frame before spouting advice.
> 
> ...


I feel bad that you are confused by statements that I quoted and that were made by other posters in a different thread on this website. I never had a rambling explanation before. It may have looked rambling but it was not an explanation. If you read the thread below I was asking a question about which fork to get. It was not an explanation. I'm not sure what grade school you went to but I learned the difference between a question and an explanation around 5th grade. I assume you made it through 5th grade and are younger than me because public education has steadily declined in the last 30 years, so it's not really your fault you don't know the difference. It's the system's fault. But at least your sarcasm can make up for the educational issue, and I do respect sarcasm. You did actually answer the question the 2nd time around.


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

Glad to see this thread is still doing my head in with its randomness


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## Slash64 (Aug 10, 2017)

wait guys, for the last thing. The lower legs of the epixon tr are longer because it's 27.5 while the epixon has 26 which is shorter(obviously) and I want to buy the tr version because of its 15mm axle(nvm) but it's 27.5 and I want to set it to 120mm? will it change the geometry of my frame(all 26, including wheelset)? Or it is some kind of different if I use the 26r epixon with the same amount of travel? I think I'm talking about efficiency here if I'm correct?


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## Slash64 (Aug 10, 2017)

up up and away!


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

richj8990 said:


> I feel bad that you are confused by statements that I quoted and that were made by other posters in a different thread on this website. I never had a rambling explanation before. It may have looked rambling but it was not an explanation. If you read the thread below I was asking a question about which fork to get. It was not an explanation. I'm not sure what grade school you went to but I learned the difference between a question and an explanation around 5th grade. I assume you made it through 5th grade and are younger than me because public education has steadily declined in the last 30 years, so it's not really your fault you don't know the difference. It's the system's fault. But at least your sarcasm can make up for the educational issue, and I do respect sarcasm. You did actually answer the question the 2nd time around.


Clearly you didn't pass. I guess your parents complained enough that they let you through...hey, it happens. I answered your question that you *incorrectly* answered yourself so the OP didn't get confused and accidentally think you knew what you're talking about.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Slash64 said:


> wait guys, for the last thing. The lower legs of the epixon tr are longer because it's 27.5 while the epixon has 26 which is shorter(obviously) and I want to buy the tr version because of its 15mm axle(nvm) but it's 27.5 and I want to set it to 120mm? will it change the geometry of my frame(all 26, including wheelset)? Or it is some kind of different if I use the 26r epixon with the same amount of travel? I think I'm talking about efficiency here if I'm correct?


Just get a fork with the same wheel size. Keep it simple.


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## Slash64 (Aug 10, 2017)

but how about the 15mm qr TA? Should I let go of this and buy the 9m qr 26r epixon? *cries cries cries*


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## Rider-at-night (Oct 30, 2017)

Slash64 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> So I will be upgrading my xct fork soon. So my decision is to buy the Epixon/TR but I'm stuck with these factors:
> 
> ...


As someone who has done this in the past, and all I can say is whatever decision you make don't drop much money into that fork. The epixon is cool at first, because you just went from the xct to a middle range fork. But that hype won't last, it becomes a dull fork after a short while, it pales against other brands and (at least in my case) breaks soon enough, stupid lock just didn't work after 3 months.

As and advice I would tell you to steer clear of the epixon (and suntuor too) and look for some second hand forks. My mechanic just happened to be selling a secondhand RS SID WC, and it wasn't that different from the epixon, 32mm tubing, air suspension, 100mm travel. But the difference in performance was abismal, it felt lighter, the 15mm axle IS A BIG improvement, you may feel it during hard cornering, it didn't have that annoying bob when sprinting, and it had a higher level of adjustments. 
Longer travel may compromise your frame geometry, don't do anything crazy, 20mm increments are all right but more will have serious effects in your ride quality. 
And, some say that 26 is dead, don't drop much money on it, there are some who are selling theirs, you may have a good chance of finding a nicer second hand fork with your current money.


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

Slash64 said:


> -Epixon can be extendable up to 160mm


Are you sure about that?

I thought they were a XC fork that only went to 120mm


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

cobba said:


> Are you sure about that?
> 
> I thought they were a XC fork that only went to 120mm


http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/home/bike/forks/?Model="Epixon". Looks like 120mm max


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