# Value of Deore XT and mega drive train



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

I would like some feedback about the value of a crankset and drive train upgrade that a seller did on his bike and whether his bike is overpriced or worth the $700.00 asking price. It is a 19 inch 2010 Rockhopper Comp Disc (hardtail). It has low miles and appears to be in excellent condition. Seller upgraded the tires and will include the stocks. Seller also upgraded it with Shimano Deore XT with Shimano mega drive train. This bike brand new was $770.00 retail. I have been to LBS and am solid on why I want a Rockhopper, RH Comp, or RH Pro. 

My main question is: How much is the Deore XT upgrade worth along with the mega drive train components? I would say if the upgrade is worth $300-$500, then yes the asking price is in the ball park. If the upgrade is worth $150 or less, then not so much. Please see the end of my post (after the NOOB Q & A below for the bike specs if interested).

Any thoughts you have regarding the value of Deore XT and mega drive train would certainly be appreciated. If I left any detailed information out please let me apologize in advance and then you can curse me as a NOOB :madman:

About me:
6”0
190 lbs summer, 200 lbs winter
What region of the country do I live in?
West Michigan

Where do I plan to ride my new bike?
Single track trails in Michigan.
Are there any YouTube videos of the trails I plan to ride?

Yes but I am not allowed to post them as a NOOB.

How much time do I plan on devoting to this hobby?
6 hours/week
What is my previous cycling experience?
Weekend warrior, beginner, 2 Iceman races (29 miler), 1 Mud, Sweat, Beers (21 miles)

Have I participated in other hobbies, sports or activities that may give me relevant skills?
Downhill skiing, wrenching on my 98 Wrangler, maintaining my twin-screw cruiser.

What are my mechanical abilities?
I know which end of a hammer to pick up..lol. I can’t tear down a motor but I maintain (brakes, pads, rotors, oil changes, alternators, radiators etc on three vehicles, a twin screw boat, lawn mower, leaf blower, 15 hp outboard etc.

Do I currently own a bike?
Trek 3700 from early 2000’s.

Do I currently own a helmet, gloves, padded shorts, proper shoes?
Everything but the shoes. Next on my list after a new bike.

Why do I want to buy a new bike?
I want something more current, that I can mod and upgrade myself. The Trek 3700 frame is not worth modding up due to its size and its age.

How much research have I already done and do I have an idea of what I want?
Lots. Yes.

Do I have friends who are into the hobby? What's their mechanical and riding experience?
A few. Excellent mechanical abilities. They tear down motors etc.

What kind of bikes do my riding buddies ride?
Cannondale Killer V 900 Aluminum frame X 2.

What kind of bikes do I see on the trails I plan to ride? (Full suspension, hardtail, rigid, single speed, geared)
Hardtail. Some full suspension but it’s the exception.

Can I really afford this hobby? 
Yes. The challenge lies in finding the time!.

How much money do I want to spend on this hobby over the next year?
$1,000

What am I trying to accomplish by participating in this hobby?
Lose some weight, get in better shape, I like being active in the great outdoors, I like meeting people, I like modding stuff up that I buy.

How do I expect my life to be different a year from the day my new bike arrives?

I rode for the past 4 years on a cheap bike. I took that long to be sure that this is a sport/hobby that I will stick with before I would allow myself to buy a nice bike (I have too many hobbies already). I will take riding more seriously, be more disciplined about it, establish achievement goals for myself and meet or exceed them. In fact I just bought my first bike computer the other day for this purpose.

Specs below on the used bike I am considering:

2010 Rockhopper Comp Disc
Frame Specialized M4 fully manipulated alloy frame, fully butted, ORE DT, externally relieved HT, forged dropouts w/ replaceable derailleur hanger, disc only
Fork RockShox Dart 3 SL, 80/100mm, 1 piece magnesium lower, alloy steerer, adj. reb. damping w/ LO and preload adj., size-specific spring rates, disc only
Shifters SRAM X4-R trigger
Front Derailleur Shimano Altus, 34.9mm clamp
Rear Derailleur SRAM X-5, mid cage
rakes Avid BB5, mechanical disc, 160mm G2 Clean Sweep rotor
Brake Levers Avid FR-5, alloy, two-finger linear pull
Cranks SR SunTour, Octalink spline 42S x 32S x 22S replaceable
Cassette SRAM PG-830, 8-speed, 11-32t
Bottom Bracket Shimano BB-ES25, Octalink spline, cartridge bearing, 68mm x 118mm
Chain KMC X8 w/ reuseable Missing Link
Hubs (f) Forged alloy, hi/low flange, double sealed, ground race, machined disc mount, 32h (r) Forged alloy, double sealed, ground race, machined disc mount, cassette, 32h
Spokes 2mm (14g) stainless
Rims Alex RHD 26", pinned, alloy double wall, eyelets, 28h front and 32h rear
Tires Specialized Fast Trak LK Sport, 26x2.0", 60TPI, wire bead
Pedals Steel cage, composite body, 9/16"
Headset 1-1/8" threadless, loose ball
Stem 3D forged alloy, 7 degree rise, 31.8mm clamp
Handlebars Butted alloy riserbar, 25mm rise, 660mm wide, 8 degree back sweep, 7 degree up
Grips Specialized Enduro, dual compound Kraton, no flange, 131mm
Saddle Specialized Rockhopper XC, Body Geometry, 143mm width, front and rear bumpers
Seat Post Alloy two bolt, 12.5mm offset, micro adjust, 30.9mm
Seat Binder Forged alloy QR, brass washer


----------



## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

I just made a similar upgrade to my entry level HT and I would say the crankset upgrade is worth $150-$175. It a far superior c/s to the crapola suntour boat anchor that's on there now. Much lighter too.

Sent from my mountain bike while crashing


----------



## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

CCMTB said:


> I just made a similar upgrade to my entry level HT and I would say the crankset upgrade is worth $150-$175. It a far superior c/s to the crapola suntour boat anchor that's on there now. Much lighter too. The mega 9 drive train is a system that guarantees that all parts that are Mega 9 compatible will work together. Its kinda marketing hype.
> 
> Sent from my mountain bike while crashing


Sent from my mountain bike while crashing


----------



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

CCMTB: Thank you. That was a good specific answer and I appreciate it. 

I am finding it difficult to pay $700.00 for a used bike that MSRP'd in 2010 for $770.00 even given this strong crank upgrade. My early-2000 Trek 3700 has the same "boat anchor" crank on it as the stock 2010 RH's. AAARRRGGGHHHHHHH...I cant get away from the Suntour! LOL


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Depends on what you mean by drivetrain. Shimano XT Drive Train Build Kit at Price Point

You mention you're pretty sold on the rockhopper. I get it, but I have to ask if you've checked out the Manufacturer direct bikes like Airborne, giantnerd, pricepoint, and Bikesdirect?


----------



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

wmac, Thanks for your reply. That is a good question regarding "drive train" and I am not sure either (because I am new). The ad says 'upgraded crank set". I texted seller and asked "which upgraded crankset did you go with?" Answer verbatim: "Shimano deore xt with shimano mega drive train."

I googled what seller texted me and landed on the same websites you did for $500-$600. I chalked my inability to figure it out based on my NOOB status but apparently I dont have enough information from the seller.

Regarding bikesdirect.com and the others: I did go to bikes direct a few days ago (based on some posts I saw here :thumbsup and looked around. The pricing was around $150-$200 less but I didnt see bikes that I could go test drive at my local LBS (mostly Motobecane) before buying direct and I saw many posts while searching last week on this forum which suggested getting fitted and trying a few different ones at LBS was way more important than saving $150-$200 so I quickly lost interest in buying one over the web. 

If that is incorrect please let me know.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

You've got the cash, go new. Warranty doesn't transfer, you have no idea why he replaced the crank (did he damage the other one jumping?) It's not a particularly fantastic deal.

Don't waste anymore time. Go buy from your LBS. See if you can negotiate lifetime tuneups (they come in handy when you screw up your derailleur adjustments  and store discounts on gear.

Enjoy!


----------



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

Thank you wmac. There are certainly risks associated with buying used. I was thinking the same thing when I was riding around on a brand new one Saturday at the LBS but THIS bike new is $1,100 and I am topped out at $650..($600 if you ask my wife.)

I appreciate your thoughts on this one. I just cant pull off a new one right now.


----------



## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

Mega 9 drive train means that any Shimano d/t components sporting that moniker will work together. Just marketing stuff, not an upgrade.

Sent from my mountain bike while crashing


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

it really depends on exactly which parts were upgraded. the crankset was specifically mentioned. Okay, it's a good crankset, but IMO not worth charging nearly MSRP for a used bike. It's still got the Dart fork, right? Yeah, not worth spending $700 on a used bike with a Dart fork.

it's like installing granite countertops in a house in the ghetto expecting to recoup 100% of your costs when reselling the house. not gonna happen.


----------



## Atl-Biker (Feb 8, 2012)

CCMTB said:


> I just made a similar upgrade to my entry level HT and I would say the crankset upgrade is worth $150-$175. It a far superior c/s to the crapola suntour boat anchor that's on there now. Much lighter too.
> 
> Sent from my mountain bike while crashing


That's interesting b/c as I wanted to replace my suntour crankset a friend of mine who is an expert rider said that should be one of the last things I should look at as it had very little to do with performance. He claimed that the biggest benefit I would get is the weight loss. I asked my LBS and they pretty much agreed.


----------



## Atl-Biker (Feb 8, 2012)

NateHawk said:


> it really depends on exactly which parts were upgraded. the crankset was specifically mentioned. Okay, it's a good crankset, but IMO not worth charging nearly MSRP for a used bike. It's still got the Dart fork, right? Yeah, not worth spending $700 on a used bike with a Dart fork.
> 
> it's like installing granite countertops in a house in the ghetto expecting to recoup 100% of your costs when reselling the house. not gonna happen.


I will second this. I have the Rock Shox XC 28 fork (or whatever it is) which is basically the equivilant of the Dart 3 (newer version) and I am a rather heavy rider as the OP (190 lbs) and I can assure that thing is a pos. I demo'd a Trek X-caliber this weekend and immediately noticed the difference right away. Way more enjoyable ride.

The problem is it is going to cost me 400-600 bucks to get a fork like that. If I would have spent that on my bike to begin with I would have that fork plus a bunch of other upgrades already. :madman:


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Atl-Biker said:


> That's interesting b/c as I wanted to replace my suntour crankset a friend of mine who is an expert rider said that should be one of the last things I should look at as it had very little to do with performance. He claimed that the biggest benefit I would get is the weight loss. I asked my LBS and they pretty much agreed.


it's true. performance gains from upgrading your crankset are negligible. As long as it works and has replaceable rings, it's fine. I swapped mine out moreso because of the bearings. I was on an Octalink BB and wore them out faster than I liked. I've had MUCH better wear life out of the outboard bearing BB, so THAT upgrade was worth it. The crankset itself? meh.


----------



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

Atl-Biker and NateHawk, thanks for the input. Confirms exactly what I was thinking. If he would take $600 and it was showroom condition I would probably do the deal but even that is a reach. I would still need/want to upgrade the fork and the rims. I wish he would have spent the $$ in those areas but whatever...maybe the Suntour c/s went south on him. He did upgrade the tires too I guess, and will include the stock ones along with a "awesome fox mtb helmet" which I dont need.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

joejoegunn357 said:


> Atl-Biker and NateHawk, thanks for the input. Confirms exactly what I was thinking. If he would take $600 and it was showroom condition I would probably do the deal but even that is a reach. I would still need/want to upgrade the fork and the rims. I wish he would have spent the $$ in those areas but whatever...maybe the Suntour c/s went south on him. He did upgrade the tires too I guess, and will include the stock ones along with a "awesome fox mtb helmet" which I dont need.


don't ever consider tires an "upgrade" when you're buying a used bike. Tires wear out, or a particular tread pattern doesn't work well for a particular trail, or whatever. Maybe the guy wants a wider or narrower tire for one reason or another. Just pay attention to wear on said tires. It's like with a car. If the tires are newish and have plenty of tread and are not dry rotting, that's good. If the tires have problems, then you'll have to replace them and a decent set of tires can be quite expensive (and as such, that should be reflected in the price).

Have you seen any pics of said bike? cranksets and bottom brackets don't just "go south" on a relatively low mileage bike for no reason. He could have submerged the bb at some point and it rusted out (if so, I'd worry about the hubs). He could have been jumping the bike as mentioned before. If so, I'd be worried about the wheels, fork, frame, and possibly also the seatpost. If it was a random upgrade, the bike could well be in good shape, but you can't know without being able to really look the bike over.


----------



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

Good point on the tires. There is one pic but too far away. I need to get more pics and then go see it to verify it has not been deep-sixed as you warned then see if he will budge on price. Thanks.


----------



## big terry (Apr 22, 2012)

ill second the bikesdirect et.al. approach. i have a motobecane 700ht i paid 500 bucks for this spring, and a few hundred dollars in (not necessarily necessary) upgrades later, i have a really solid ride that will easily last me til i buy a new one. you can get a close fit by trying out bikes at the lbs to get an idea of sizing; if the mail order bike dont fit perfectly to you, it is no sweat to get a replacement stem or setback seatpost to fine tune the cockpit.

i wouldnt offer the guy more than 400-450 for the bike in question. couple of years old, mediocre fork, mediocre group thats already been whooped on (regardless of what he said it is foolish to assume it hasnt been beat.) everything on that bike is entry level, and people that buy entry level bikes dont treat them well. 

then again, you can tell the missus that you wear the pants and youll spend what you damn well please on a new ride, and go buy something from the lbs that will be properly fitted and hopefully have some free tune-ups and stuff thrown in. you may not get any for a while, but hey- thats just more time to go riding


----------



## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

I think the op is smart to set a budget and stick to it. Not everyone wants an expensive bike and he should be able to find a good used bike with his budget. 

The RH is way overpriced, which is typical of many cl sellers. Make a reasonable offer like mentioned above. If he doesn't accept it, move on with the search. Keep riding the old bike and be patient for a good deal on the kind of bike you want.


----------



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

I have called off the pursuit of the Rockhopper Comp bike based on all your input(s). Thanks to CCMTB, wmac, NateHawk, Atl-Biker, big terry and rlouder for guiding me through my first post on this site. Special thanks to ProjectDan35 who owns a bike exactly like this and has modded it up nicely. He said everything about the frame is great to build on but the price was a deal-breaker. I learned a lot through this process. You guys just saved me $200-$300 dollars. Awesome forum. Cheers!


----------



## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

Good decision. As far as used bikes go, you can do better for $700.


----------



## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

You should be able to get a good deal on a new 2012 bike now as the bike shops are trying to clear out for 2013 bikes. Also lots of bike shops have older, but still un-used bikes they've not been able to sell which you get even better deals on.

Buying new from a shop can have lots of perks (depending on the shop) - free tune ups, lifetime warranty etc.


----------



## Peter_Klim (Sep 28, 2008)

mbco1975 said:


> You should be able to get a good deal on a new 2012 bike now as the bike shops are trying to clear out for 2013 bikes. Also lots of bike shops have older, but still un-used bikes they've not been able to sell which you get even better deals on.
> 
> Buying new from a shop can have lots of perks (depending on the shop) - free tune ups, lifetime warranty etc.


EXACTLY!!

Now is the time to get closeout on 2012 models where you'll save anywhere from 20-50% off a never before used bike.

THe dude trying to see you a $770 bike could've got it on close out for $500. Unfortunately almost all these fuhkers on Craiglist are asking WAY too much!

Seriously, i would NEVER pay more than 40% on a used bike. Shieet, I just got a new road bike frameset at 50% off a 2009 model that was new in a box. Comes with the full warrenty too. And just 2 months ago I purchase a new CURRENT model mtb retails at $2750 for $2300.

Be patient ( although I found both bikes in less than 1 week of looking around)


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

What did you wind up getting?


----------



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

I found a mint condition 2009 Rockhopper Comp 26" on CL locally for $400.00. It has the same M4 frame and component level as the CL used $700.00 RH Comp 2010 that you guys thankfully steered me away from. With a limited budget I am upgrading the wheel-set to Mavic Crossrides (Friday) and looking for a better/lighter air fork for between $200 and $250. Everything else (crank, cassette, shifters) will be stock until next year. The difference in weight is amazing. I also added Crank Brothers Candy 1's and some riding shoes. Coming from a Trek 3700 this thing is already greased-lightning before the rims go on. Lots of fun and the weather here (Michigan) last week and this week has been awesome for riding. Having a blast training for Iceman Cometh 2012.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Awesome! Congratulations! Keep the old parts so you can keep the upgrades if/when you get something different


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

If you're on a budget, don't do Mavic system wheels. Their rims are nice, but the wheels have weird spokes and the hubs don't have a great reputation. IMO, it's short-sighted to even contemplate a wheel with anything weird about it unless one already has a set of solid 32-spoke 3-cross wheels with user-serviceable hubs.

Add the money to your budget for the suspension fork. Get a fork you'll be happy with for the life of the bike - don't mess around with something mid-level that you'll want to replace again in a couple seasons.


----------



## EmbraceTheHate (Sep 9, 2012)

Curious why are you already upgrading it? Ride it for a while so you can really figure out what works and doesn't work for you. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

Many of the Rockhopper owners on this forum have posted that the first thing you upgrade on a limited budget are wheels, then fork. This adds strength while reducing weight which increases acceleration (although the Crossrides are only about 300g lighter than stock). I recognize the spokes are weird. I did not know the hubs had a bad reputation. Everything I read on this site and a couple other sites mostly suggested that for my style of riding the Crossride is a solid budget upgrade to the RH stock Alex Rims.

AndrwSwitch, I am tending to agree with you about waiting and saving up for a really nice fork instead of a one-step-up-fork but geez..have you seen how much weight you can shave off the stock fork but going one step up? On the Crossrides, if you can suggest another wheel-set that is lighter and stronger for under $200 I can look into them and return the Crossrides. 

EmbraceTheHate: I read that from 2009 and forward, the stock RH rims are not as strong as they were on earlier models. Some people are happy but some people over 200# have bad stories about broken spokes, lock-ups. I have a race coming up November 3rd and then winter sets in and trails close. I would like to enjoy the upgrades I have planned now while I am training instead of waiting until I figure out what works. The fork can wait (although it is soooo heavy) but I am worried about the wheels failing and since it is one of the first things the RH riders upgrade anyway, I thought I may as well do it now as they are within the budget.


----------



## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

Nothing wrong with crossrides for xc riding unless you are a clyde. The hubs are butter-smooth with cartridge bearings that are very reliable and maintenance-free. 

The free hub needs to be lubed every couple months, but it's a 5-min job. Otherwise, the freehub bushing wears fast and will need replacing in a couple years. I much prefer the more frequent freehub lubing over lubing cup and cone bearings once a year.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

joejoegunn357 said:


> AndrwSwitch, I am tending to agree with you about waiting and saving up for a really nice fork instead of a one-step-up-fork but geez..have you seen how much weight you can shave off the stock fork but going one step up? On the Crossrides, if you can suggest another wheel-set that is lighter and stronger for under $200 I can look into them and return the Crossrides.


Who said anything about waiting then saving? I'm saying jettison the wheels plan, take the budget you do have, and spend it all on the fork.

My experience about swapping wheels around is that while it's less stupid than buying a lighter crank or a fancy seat post or something, it's still not that much of an improvement in handling, and none in straight-line speed. The "magic" of wheels is in their rotational inertia. In calculating rotational inertia, grams of spoke are only a third as important as grams of rim, and the hubs barely even count. You want a bang-for-the-buck improvement in rotational inertia, get some light tires and fancy tubes.

That Mavic (and most of the others) doesn't publish the weight of the rim makes me suspicious. Their aftermarket 19 mm weighs 460 g. I'd expect the Crossride rim to come in about the same. Click around some and you'll find a ton of options that are a fair amount lighter, although generally a bit narrower.

At the end of the day, it's your money. But I think that if you get two intermediate upgrades, in a couple years you're going to re-buy both of them. Do one terminal upgrade and in a few years, you may do the other, but at least you're not just throwing away the money you throw at the ones you do now.


----------



## joejoegunn357 (Sep 9, 2012)

If weight was the only factor I would agree with you but what about strength? I am over 200 lbs....c'mon, you KNOW I am going to taco those '09 stock Alex Rims eventually. If I had your '07 RH Comp's stock rims I wouldnt worry about it so much but somewhere in the '08-'09 years the Alex Rims just arent what they used to be. Arguably even Mavics lowest end wheelset is better than Alex Rims best...and the stock Alex's are far from their best. I just want some solid affordable wheels that I can ride with confidence while I save up for a nice fork.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

joejoegunn357 said:


> If weight was the only factor I would agree with you but what about strength? I am over 200 lbs....c'mon, you KNOW I am going to taco those '09 stock Alex Rims eventually. If I had your '07 RH Comp's stock rims I wouldnt worry about it so much but somewhere in the '08-'09 years the Alex Rims just arent what they used to be. Arguably even Mavics lowest end wheelset is better than Alex Rims best...and the stock Alex's are far from their best. I just want some solid affordable wheels that I can ride with confidence while I save up for a nice fork.


I know nothing of the sort. Let alone that the Crossrides or any other rim would do any better. Actually, I doubt it.

If you're worried about it, give the tension of your existing spokes a look. Supposedly that was the problem with the more recent wheels Specialized has shipped - not even related to the rim, and if the wheels are in good shape now, highly fixable. And while the wheels on my little red Specialized did fine until I got curious enough about saving a few minutes with lighter wheels to spend money on the experiment, (doubtful and I don't have a rich enough data set to prove it one way or the other, but the quicker handling is fun) you've got me - it's an '07, although a Hardrock. I later cannibalized the rear wheel and found it had 36 spokes, so it had that going for it too. Anyway, they did fine until 2011, including my first several races.

I actually have tacoed a couple of wheels. It took catching one in the wheel well of a moving car to taco it, and the other was fallen on by another rider when I was trying to pick up my bike after going down in a sand pit. I consider both of those to be "all bets are off" situations in terms of wheel survivability. One of the rims was probably made by Alex. The other predated that company.

Now if you just want different wheels, fine. You're allowed to want something prettier or with a higher-status brand name; there are no rules. I just don't think there's a performance justification for Crossrides, especially at the cost of not going as far with the fork as you could.


----------

