# Bought a used bike.. 1 week later it breaks..



## gamepsyched (Sep 9, 2008)

Hey i bought a kona stuff '02 from cragslist for $350 and i rode it just in

town and stuff for a few days and then one day i decide to dirt jump with it

seeing as how it is meant for that. So i get to the jumps and do a couple

and it seems fine, But the third jump i do i land perfectly but for some

reason i get thrown over the handlebars and land on my kneecap (which

was already bad so now its ****ed) I didnt no what happened until i inspect my bike.

I start looking at it and the arch that connects the fork has snapped and i start getting ****ing angry because i just bought this exactly 7 days ago.

So i phone up the guy and he says he can sell me the exact same forks for $25 but they are coil, Is this an ok deal or should i take him to court for selling me a faulty bike and for my injuries?

Here are pics of the bike:


























And i do now where this guy lives and i feel like kicking down his door and kicking the **** out of him, But i am a calm guy and want to try to settle this the most non violent way possible.

My friend also says this should not have happened unless there was already a small crack in it. So there most likely was already a crack in it when he sold it to me.


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## gamepsyched (Sep 9, 2008)

Bump!


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

First off, you're lucky you didn't get more seriously hurt. Second, it may be hard, if not impossible, to prove that the fork was faulty when you received it. You, being the buyer of used equipment, are responsible for checking said equipment. 

You may want to check with an attorney to see if you have a case. And if I was in your position, I would probably want to beat the fuc& out of this guy, but remember, if you choose to take this route, you may definitely have to contact an attorney.

Heal up fast bro.


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## aballz (Sep 12, 2008)

It's unfortunate that you're hurt, I really hope it's not too bad. But the seller's responsibility doesn't go so far as to cover your injuries. If you didn't purchase it from a bike store, I think getting him to replace the damage part is lucky enough. That's just my opinion though?


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## gamepsyched (Sep 9, 2008)

Well the attorney said i had a case. It may be used but that should not of happened the first time i go jumping, so it had to be ****ed up before. And im going to get x-rays tomorrow i might have cracked my knee (again) right before basketball season *sigh* and if i cant play basketball im definitely F'IN that guy up. Lol but thanks for the comments.


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## Ktse (Jul 12, 2008)

Boulder Pilot said:


> ...
> You may want to check with an attorney to see if you have a case. And if I was in your position, I would probably want to beat the fuc& out of this guy, but remember, if you choose to take this route, you may definitely have to contact an attorney.
> 
> Heal up fast bro.


What the hell? That seems incredibly overkill and an incredibly stupid mentality to displace blame on the seller. There's not enough information to even suggest that it is the seller's fault. As a rider, it's their own responsibility to check their hardware before and after each ride. The OP is really lucky that the seller is offering the same fork for 25 bucks. It's unfortunate that this happened, but people are the only ones in charge of their own safety.


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## damion (Jun 27, 2003)

*go figure...*

the lawyer said you have a case. did he/she say that a reatainer is required?

GET REAL, and accept that cycling is a dangerous sport. Why not go after the land owner where the jump is? You choseto buy a 6-7 year old USED bike.


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## rug wheelie (Mar 18, 2004)

Did you have pads on? How about a helmet? How much dirt jumping experience do you have? Are you a competent bike mechanic or did you take it to a shop and have it checked out before you bought it? Did the guy give you any kind of written warranty or guarantee? Did you land to flat or did you case it?


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## walrasian (Aug 16, 2005)

I'm with damion. The fork wasn't defective, it was just at the end of its life. Parts break, especially really old ones. Since magnesium just kind of snaps like that, the seller couldn't have known that it was about to break, unless he somehow was able to put it under a microscope or something. Chalk this up to a lesson learned and realize that your crashing had nothing to do with the seller of the bike. 

In the future I would suggest you buy your bikes new. I have an '01 stuff and I think they went for around US$900. So $350 is way too much to be paying for a 6 year old bike, even if it was not ever ridden. Wear and tear, and technological advancements should have easily pushed the value of that bike below $200.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

No wonder our country is falling apart. If isn't the Feds bailing out AIG with taxpayer dollars it's a kid that wants to sue another becuase his bike broke and he was injured. Hell what if *you* broke it on the first 2 jumps and it finally snapped? 

Doesn't anyone accept personal responsibility and risk anymore? You engage in a high-risk activity in which you apparently just assumed the condition of your equipment and then want to blame somebody else?

Does any lawyer in internet-land think I can sue this kid for even posting this garbage which caused mental anguish?


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

No one accepts personal responsibility anymore. I see the contrast having moved overseas where one can't lean on unlimited punitive damages and I'm currently changing my thinking aswell. That was one shock just seeing that I have no recourse to become rich off something sometimes trivial or my own mistake for being in a place. It just went to show me how much and how far we go in America and use the justice and civil court systems to justify our own actions that get us into trouble.


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## dueruote (Oct 18, 2007)

Konish said:


> No wonder our country is falling apart. If isn't the Feds bailing out AIG with taxpayer dollars it's a kid that wants to sue another becuase his bike broke and he was injured. Hell what if *you* broke it on the first 2 jumps and it finally snapped?
> 
> Doesn't anyone accept personal responsibility and risk anymore? You engage in a high-risk activity in which you apparently just assumed the condition of your equipment and then want to blame somebody else?
> 
> Does any lawyer in internet-land think I can sue this kid for even posting this garbage which caused mental anguish?


... very well said.


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## ilostmypassword (Dec 9, 2006)

Some would argue that Karma may have finally caught up with you


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

Reminds me a little of this debacle.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> No one accepts personal responsibility anymore. I see the contrast having moved overseas where one can't lean on unlimited punitive damages and I'm currently changing my thinking aswell. That was one shock just seeing that I have no recourse to become rich off something sometimes trivial or my own mistake for being in a place. It just went to show me how much and how far we go in America and use the justice and civil court systems to justify our own actions that get us into trouble.


Boy, you really are quick to turn on the USA... How long have you lived "overseas"? What, like three months??? Uh-oh, I hear the world police sirens in the background....

Psyched: I am not a lawyer. There are legal requirements in almost every civilized country that requires disclosure of known defects. If in fact you do have substantial expenses related to injuries sustained from the catastrophic failure of the arch, then you may certainly have a case, and justifiably as well. If the guy who sold you this bike knew the fork was cracked before selling on Craigslist, he likely blabbed to friends, online, or elsewhere. If the metal was cracked prior, often you will see a stain where the bare metal got dirty or oxidized before the new break. I've seen frames sold used where the crack was touched up with paint before selling.

HOWEVER, even if the seller was at fault, unless he's worth more than he owes you or carries personal liability, don't waste your time in court (IMO) unless you have time to waste. Your lawyer will give best council here as he won't want to spend his or her time unless there is a payout.

Don't let the lazy socialists on this site discourage you; the USA is the greatest country in the world. Though the system is sometimes flawed (Joint and Several Liability is what many refer to in this post, but don't know the term), there are (IMO) very few other countries that come close, and those don't show up in Jerk's short resume that states he's an expert on other's "personal responsibility".

Your example will thankfully be a lesson to many, that when you buy a bike of this quality and nature, it's best to spend another $50 and get it checked out by a pro...

I hope you recover in time for hoops season. I currently live "overseas" in South Germany, and pickup games are harder to find here.

Get well soon. G.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

******,

You're quick to follow my moving overseas posts and call me out, but don't you realize by now that I'm originally from Europe?

I'm also not so obtuse to think that one country in the world is the greatest for 100% of the people, in 100% of the categories.

I happen to love the US, but it's full of problems, so are many other countries. It depends on YOU and whether those problems encompass the area of the country you reside in, physically, and economically, as well as socially.

In my case, I was presented with a sound opportunity to change my scenery. If the logistics all fell into place, why would anyone not want to just see something different? Many of my friends, including my family, have travelled all over the world, so our boundaries are not so restrictive as to the one country and the "Team America" approach.

As far as the poster goes, it's sad to resort to lawsuit. Used item, buyer beware. That's why when I sell ANYTHING, I put it in writing for myself and the buyer that it's sold "as-is", including any flaws and I'm not responsible once the sale is made for anything.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

****** said:


> Don't let the lazy socialists on this site discourage you; the USA is the greatest country in the world. Though the system is sometimes flawed (Joint and Several Liability is what many refer to in this post, but don't know the term), there are (IMO) very few other countries that come close, and those don't show up in Jerk's short resume that states he's an expert on other's "personal responsibility".
> 
> Get well soon. G.


I so very rarely resort to name-calling but you sir, are an a-hole. By believing that this kid neglected his responsibility in this deal and should accept his situation instead of resorting to a lawsuit is somehow being a lazy socialist?

I'm an American. I'm also Active Duty military...15 years so far. Flew over 2200 hours in 2 operational squadrons. Deployed on a Nimitz class carrier for 8 months working 18 hour days launching and recovering combat missions in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. I served in hot, dry places supporting combat operations for longer than I would have liked. I have lived or visited a lot of places in the world...some by choice, some under orders. I didn't get to see my son's first b-day, first words or first steps. I'm *anything* but lazy and feel pretty darned confident that I've given my fair share to America...have you? Oh, and I currently live overseas as well.

You have a LOT of nerve. America *is* great but it ain't from *******s like you giving out advice on how or why to sue people for things that are CLEARLY in their control. It's just your type of thinking that has created an entire generation of lazy socilaists called American's that think everything has to be fair and it's simply a matter of putting your hand out in order to ensure equity.

I'm guessing the OP is pretty young from his reference to basketball season and whoopin' butt. How is a young man like this already "spring loaded" to sue someone without considering his own responsibilities in this? Think about it...


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## Ilikemud (Aug 23, 2008)

Boulder Pilot said:


> First off, you're lucky you didn't get more seriously hurt. Second, it may be hard, if not impossible, to prove that the fork was faulty when you received it. You, being the buyer of used equipment, are responsible for checking said equipment.
> 
> You may want to check with an attorney to see if you have a case. And if I was in your position, I would probably want to beat the fuc& out of this guy, but remember, if you choose to take this route, you may definitely have to contact an attorney.
> 
> Heal up fast bro.


 That's the problem with America today, everyone is so ready to sue or fight at the drop of a hat, you bought a USED bike, how well did you inspect that bike? **** happens, that's the risk you take, now maybe that guy will give you your money back but if not....move the **** out and forget about it. Of course you want to beat his ass, who wouldn't, but you can't go fighting everytime someone pisses you off lifes to short for that, and besides maybe the guy made an honest mistake and didn't now it was cracked, you didn't. Go back and talk to the guy, see if he will you give you your money back or at least some of it.

Heal that knee up, fix that bike and get back out there and have some fun.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

jesus, you bought a SIX year old dirt jump bike. you assume any and ALL risks of injury. inspecting the bike and verifying its condition and ability to take even more sever abuse is 10000000% your responsibility. buy a NEW, good fork, and stop pointing fingers at other people for your problems.


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## CBookman (Sep 9, 2008)

it's ridiculous to think the broken fork and resulting crash is anything other than the OP's responsibility. should've had the bike checked out, should've checked it better himself. what can you expect from a machine designed to jump things regularly after 6 years of use/abuse?


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

First off, its a USED bike. You can't expect it to be perfect. Second, just because it broke while you were riding it doesn't mean that it was flawed when you bought it...

As for the legal stuff, realize how much $$ it will cost you to pursue this. What happens if the judge were to throw your case out? Is the attorney going to walk away without his $$? I doubt it. 

Take the other fork for $25, or look for another replacement fork somewhere else.


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## dmcgoy (Apr 16, 2006)

gamepsyched said:


> Well the attorney said i had a case. It may be used but that should not of happened the first time i go jumping, so it had to be ****ed up before. And im going to get x-rays tomorrow i might have cracked my knee (again) right before basketball season *sigh* and if i cant play basketball im definitely F'IN that guy up. Lol but thanks for the comments.


Uh, right. You sure sound like the non-violent sort.

Unfortunately, it's your fault. Dirt jumping is dangerous. It's the rider's responsibility to check their bike before and during each ride. Especially on a six year old bike. You obviously didn't do that.


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## frdfandc (Sep 5, 2007)

Even if you purchased this bike new, parts can fail. You were JUMPING a 6 year old bike. 

You should have had the bike checked over before taking it out. You should have looked over the bike carefully before purchasing. 

Take responsibility for your own actions, man up and just pick up a new fork.


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## rdhood (Jul 30, 2008)

First, I disagree that jumping a bike designed to jump should be a problem. A fork should not break. The manufacturer has some liability here. 5-6 years is *not* old. A fork should not break like that through any amount of doing what it was designed to do. If the fork was described as being a "jump fork", the manufacturer may bear some responsibility. 

Second, the OP needs to own up to his own responsibility. 

IF THE FORK WAS VISIBLY DEFECTIVE when he bought it, an inspection should have found it. The OP has a duty to inspect the thing he is going to risk his life/health on. At the very least, the OP contributed to his own injury. 

IF THE FORK WAS NOT VISIBLY DEFECTIVE when he bought it, how could the seller have known that it would break?

Either way, the OP bears some/all of the fault of this accident. Either way, the seller bears very little/none of the fault of this accident.

If , by inspection, the OP had discovered that the seller was trying to pull one over one him, then by all means... kick his azz. Otherwise, he is not negligent in all of this.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I was reading your thread and now I have this incredible headache. I am going to sue you. My lawyer will be in contact with you.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

The term you need to learn is "FATIGUE LIFE", that is the expected life of a material that is safe to use the product during. Alu and Mag have very short fatigue Lifes, normally the expected life I think is around 5 years if I'm not mistaken. So buying a bike 6+ yrs old, designed for jumping, that probably was jumped a lot is not a good idea. Also as said materials at the end of their fatigue life can just snap like that, it was on the purchaser to inspect the merchandise before he bought it and the seller may well and most likely did not know the fork was about to fail - BUYER BEWARE.



rdhood said:


> First, I disagree that jumping a bike designed to jump should be a problem. A fork should not break. The manufacturer has some liability here. 5-6 years is *not* old. A fork should not break like that through any amount of doing what it was designed to do. If the fork was described as being a "jump fork", the manufacturer may bear some responsibility.
> 
> Second, the OP needs to own up to his own responsibility.
> 
> ...


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

aside from all the bantering and bickering in this post, I think the OP is responsible in the risk that he takes. I got a frame from a buddy for Free, and if something on the frame broke causing me to break a leg or even die, I would never blame him for it. I think the OP is lucky the guy is offering to sell him a fork. I highly doubt the seller knew the fork would break on the first ride or whatever, so I would chalk it up as a learning experience. The form probably bottomed out and broke with the pressure on it. simple as that.


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## Roswell52 (Mar 25, 2008)

Did this fork look like this when you bought it?








If it did, you should not have ridden on it. If it didn't, then you need to find a new hobby. 

Seriously dude, sorry you got hurt, but that fork looks like someone took a sledge hammer to it. That type of abuse will break any component, regardless of quality. I would never attempt a jump on a fork that was that damaged. The legal term is "negligence by the plaintiff".

Instead of paying a lawyer, just put those bucks into a new fork. And when buying on Craigslist, buyer beware!


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

Rediculous to consider hurting, sueing or otherwise harrasing the seller.

OP - man up and accept responsibility - either it is your fault for not inspecting the bike or there was nothing wrong with it.


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## pop_martian (Mar 20, 2007)

I am sure that you have a copy of the warranty that the seller gave you when you bought the bike off him. Oh and it's a good thing that you had it notorized when you both signed the agreement because the judge will want to see this when you take it to court.

What's that?! You don't have a warranty from the seller? Oh, that's probably because want ads are items that are sold as-is. No warranty is expressed, not implied! It's a buyer beware market.

So I say go for it and sue, but prepared for to pay your attorney a handsome retainer fee, and also be prepared to lose and have to pay for the seller's attorney fees as well that he had to pay to defend himself!


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## TBarnaby (Aug 1, 2008)

This is the silliest thing I've heard in awhile. I'm sure it was sold as-is, so where's the liability on the sellers part? I would think you'd have to prove serious negligence or malice to be able to find them at fault...which doesn't sound like the case, unless he was just looking to score big by selling you a second fork for the massive sum of $25.

And unless you have an attorney in the family, your first hour or so will have paid for another bike like the one you wrecked.


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## Sentiment (Jul 6, 2008)

> the USA is the greatest country in the world.


Ethnocentrism at its best. I personally like Canada. Free health care when i break my old used bike is totally awesome.

Honestly though, you shouldn't buy bikes that old and screw around with em on dirt jumps.


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## deftones156 (Sep 12, 2008)

Caveat Emptor. 

Don't know it? Look it up.


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

gamepsyched said:


> Well the attorney said i had a case. It may be used but that should not of happened the first time i go jumping, so it had to be ****ed up before. And im going to get x-rays tomorrow i might have cracked my knee (again) right before basketball season *sigh* and if i cant play basketball im definitely F'IN that guy up. Lol but thanks for the comments.


Please let the guy know that you're posting your intention to assult him online too. That'll learn him.

It's a used bike. Sold as-is, just like when you buy a used car (that's why you get those inspected before buying it too...)

You crashed. I wonder about the sequence of events here - was it crash then break or break and then crash. I'm leaning towards the former, not the latter. Crashing and breaking parts sucks - but if it's still not the sellers fault. It woudn't be 1 min, 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week, or even 1 decade later - because it's your bike now - not his.

And might want to look here before riding again. - http://www.marzocchi.com/spa/mtb/manuals/GeneralWarning-ENG.pdf


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## OutThere (Dec 25, 2007)

*Willing seller/ willing buyer*

Sorry to hear bout your misfortune, after reading all treads I must agree with all stating that to sue the seller will be a mistake, as you will have to proof that he was aware of the flaw in the fork. In movable items such as cars/ bicycles it will be almost impossible to pursue a succesful lawsuit as the courts will apply the principle " par delict ". Meaning that, can it be expected from the average man to have predicted that there was a defect in the fork, and unless you can prove that he was aware of the crack/ defect you and any lawyer for that matter will have difficulty convincing the judge. Heal up fast and get out there and rip up the trails.


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## cbchess (Dec 20, 2003)

get the cheap replacement fork but don't sue the guy - is a six year old bike for god sake. Old bikes break , man up.
if you want to be able to hold someone resposible for a bike you have to buy a BRAND NEW one then you get like a year on the frame if the design is at fault not from over use or jumping.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

SteveUK said:


> Reminds me a little of this debacle.


Yeah Steve, amazing how many people are ready to sue over their own actions huh? Idiots, morons.......


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

"_Yeah Steve, amazing how many people are ready to sue over their own actions huh?_"

I wouldn't describe it as amazing.


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## fastale (Jul 2, 2007)

SteveUK said:


> Reminds me a little of this debacle.


Thanks for posting that,

both comical and depressing. but mostly comical.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*My head hurts....*

To the OP: 1 week ago you didn't know what a shock pump was. This week, you hit a jump, broke a 6 year old fork and it's the old owner's fault?

Your lack of skill and your lack of knowledge of bikes resulted in a wreck that broke your fork. That happens to all of us at some point.

Based on your picture from last week of this bike, the crown wasn't broken when you bought it:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/thehotdude/Mybikeandjoint008.jpg

Man up and accept your responsibility.

One more piece fo advice: Internet bravado and threatened "ass kickings" usually mean that the person making the threats is a poosy with a small penis. I'm not suggesting this is you, but that's usually the case.


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## EndersShadow (Jun 27, 2008)

I warned you about that fork when you posted those pictures of the bike when you first got it. You should have gotten it checked out. I'm no expert but that thing was obviously abused. You are the only person responsible for this......not the seller. It's not like he tried to hide the fact that the bike was a beat up piece of junk.


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## Cubensis (May 31, 2008)

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=450137


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## Cubensis (May 31, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> I was reading your thread and now I have this incredible headache. I am going to sue you. My lawyer will be in contact with you.


Eaassssssy....Konish already said it a few posts up Captain Original...


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## IARider (Mar 30, 2008)

Cubensis said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=450137


If you look at that post you will see the OP is 15 years old, explains a whole lot.


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

sounds like you can ask for advise and opinions but you can't use what people give you. Someone obviously told you to have the stuff checked out and you didnt listen.


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

I would not go after the seller, nor would I buy the $25 fork from him, unless you want a matching set of trashed kneecaps. Find a decent new fork if you're going to keep jumping. Try posting in the shocks forum if you need a recommendation for something strong and cheap.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Thought the OP's handle was familiar. _Caveat emptor_ and "as-is" are phrases to know when buying used. Sounds like a lack of brains and skills here...hope that lawyer is taking the case on a contingency basis or he's going to learn another life lesson real soon...


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## Call_me_Al (May 31, 2008)

Dude, you bought a dirt JUMP bike that has been JUMPED for 6 years. It is your responsibility to look over the bike before you agree to buy it. So what if the fork had a small crack in it when you bought the bike? You are just as responsible for noticing that crack as the seller is. Maybe he knew that crack was there, maybe he didn't. Maybe there wasn't a crack and it is entirely your fault that the fork broke... when it was at the end of its life after being used for 6 years. Regardless, you have no way to prove anything.

Buy that fork for $25, heal up, and get over it.


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## Call_me_Al (May 31, 2008)

gamepsyched said:


> Well the attorney said i had a case. It may be used but that should not of happened the first time i go jumping, so it had to be ****ed up before. And im going to get x-rays tomorrow i might have cracked my knee (again) right before basketball season *sigh* and if i cant play basketball im definitely F'IN that guy up. Lol but thanks for the comments.


Your attorney probably doesn't know squat about bikes anyway.

You bought a bike with a fork that has been USED and ABUSED for 6 YEARS! I wouldn't even ride a fork that old.

And I suppose that you have a whole courtroom full of witnesses to testify that you really did land that jump perfectly. You have a ton of DJ experience, right?


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## gamepsyched (Sep 9, 2008)

OK, i have read ALL these posts and i have a few things to say.

I didnt say i was going straight to sueing him i am 15 years old and i have no intention of bringing this to court (My parents obviously want to) I stated that i want to settle this the most calm way possible ( no court and no fighting) i want to reason with him.

However, I know i should have got it checked out but does anyone not think that he should of had it checked before he sold it so he would know if someone would be put in danger?

I know it was AS-IS but i do think it is as much responsibility for the seller to make sure it wont be defective as it is me.

Please no more *bashing* and arguing on this thread, By you ranting about how the U.S sucks and i should sue you are showing that you Have more rage then me, and then telling me to be non violent.

I live in canada BTW so i have free healthcare which is a plus, I am looking into new forks and the seller offered to put in $50 towards new forks.


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## Call_me_Al (May 31, 2008)

gamepsyched said:


> I am looking into new forks and the seller offered to put in $50 towards new forks.


That is really quite nice of him.


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## LOVELESS (Aug 15, 2008)

gamepsyched said:


> However, I know i should have got it checked out but does anyone not think that he should of had it checked before he sold it so he would know if someone would be put in danger?
> 
> I know it was AS-IS but i do think it is as much responsibility for the seller to make sure it wont be defective as it is me.


Honestly, I still think it's *"your" responsibility*, if you bought it from a LBS then yes.. I agress w/ you...

End Of Story,


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

"_i want to reason with him..._"

No, you want him to admit that it's his fault. In some ways, it's nobody's fault. If the seller didn't know there was damage, then his hands are clean. You're young and inexperienced and didn't know what to look for. It's called a learning curve.

Wishful thinking aside, do you have any, genuine reason to believe that the seller was aware that the fork was damaged? Out of curiosity, how old is the seller?


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

SteveUK said:


> "_i want to reason with him..._"
> 
> No, you want him to admit that it's his fault. In some ways, it's nobody's fault. If the seller didn't know there was damage, then his hands are clean. You're young and inexperienced and didn't know what to look for. It's called a learning curve.
> 
> Wishful thinking aside, do you have any, genuine reason to believe that the seller was aware that the fork was damaged? Out of curiosity, how old is the seller?


x2 :madman:


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## gamepsyched (Sep 9, 2008)

SteveUK said:


> "_i want to reason with him..._"
> 
> No, you want him to admit that it's his fault. In some ways, it's nobody's fault. If the seller didn't know there was damage, then his hands are clean. You're young and inexperienced and didn't know what to look for. It's called a learning curve.
> 
> Wishful thinking aside, do you have any, genuine reason to believe that the seller was aware that the fork was damaged? Out of curiosity, how old is the seller?


He is 18 and says he is a "Christian" I looked closely at photos i took when i bought the bike and there is damage where it snapped If you want to see the pic just ask


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

"_If you want to see the pic just ask..._"

Yes please. Why didn't you mention this earlier?


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*sigh...*



gamepsyched said:


> He is 18 and says he is a "Christian" I looked closely at photos i took when i bought the bike and there is damage where it snapped If you want to see the pic just ask


Show the pic but it doesn't matter. You bought the bike as is, with no implied or assumed warranty.

So there was damage, you declined to take the advice of poster here and get it checked out, you went and took it off some sweet jumps and it broke? Your bad, not the seller's.

The time to object was before you bought the bike, not after you wrecked it.

So your crash: Did you case the landing? Land flat? A few details may help us empathize.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*You Brits..*



SteveUK said:


> "_If you want to see the pic just ask..._"
> 
> Yes please. Why didn't you mention this earlier?


And your rhetorical questions....


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## EpicProportions (Jul 8, 2008)

As deftones156 and Bikingfoolferlife said *caveat emptor*.


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## gamepsyched (Sep 9, 2008)

I landed perfectly did not case no flat land i landed on the other side of the jump perfectly, It wasn't even a big jump.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Of course...*



gamepsyched said:


> I landed perfectly did not case no flat land i landed on the other side of the jump perfectly, It wasn't even a big jump.


Ah, of course. Speaking of rhetorical questions...

Have you looked up caveat emptor yet?


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## IARider (Mar 30, 2008)

Here's what I think happened, the OP bought the bike, then realized he paid too much for it, and then upon making a couple questionable landings broke the fork on an actual good landing (I'm just going with what was said so far) and now the OP wants to recoup some of his losses.

(If this opinion offends anyone, I'm sorry, but its my opinion, so yeah)


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## gamepsyched (Sep 9, 2008)

N^ i have no idea what that means.


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## coffeegeek2112 (Mar 2, 2007)

gamepsyched said:


> He is 18 and says he is a "Christian" I looked closely at photos i took when i bought the bike and there is damage where it snapped If you want to see the pic just ask


If I read this correctly, you can see damage to the fork right after you bought it, before you jumped it. There is a picture of said fork damage, and you still jumped the bike????
Are you really that stupid to jump a visibly damaged bike, and were surprised when it failed??????? You're parents are upset with the seller of damaged bike, instead of stupid kid?????
They should smack you for being a retard. Take responsibility for your retarded actions. Totally your fault.


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## gamepsyched (Sep 9, 2008)

IARider said:


> Here's what I think happened, the OP bought the bike, then realized he paid too much for it, and then upon making a couple questionable landings broke the fork on an actual good landing (I'm just going with what was said so far) and now the OP wants to recoup some of his losses.
> 
> (If this opinion offends anyone, I'm sorry, but its my opinion, so yeah)


No i did not crash once on this bike (except for when the fork snapped and threw me) I am not the one to lie, this offends me. This was my first time DJ'ing with it also so it just pisses me off that it happened.


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## EndersShadow (Jun 27, 2008)

Gamepsyched......Just own up to the fact that you made a mistake here.

You should have taken the bike to your LBS and had them inspect it. I recently bought a used Jamis Eureka Singlespeed from the classifieds on here. I'm no expert on bikes so I took it to my LBS. They looked it over for me. It works just fine. It also has a marzocchi fork on it. This is what a used fork that has been cared for SHOULD look like.










Compare that to yours. Mind you....my fork is an 03.....but a year isn't that big of a deal. You can't tell me that you didn't know that fork was beat to death.

You're young.....dumb....headstrong.....think you're invincible. We were all that way once. Cut your losses and take the 50 bucks for the new fork and quit your crying.

I'm not trying to be mean....but....We all make mistakes. You've made one. Learn from it.


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## EpicProportions (Jul 8, 2008)

> You're young.....dumb....headstrong.....think you're invincible. We were all that way once. Cut your losses and take the 50 bucks for the new fork and quit your crying.
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean....but....We all make mistakes. You've made one. Learn from it.


Amen, my brother!


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

Lets see a pic of the jump as well 

Other than that I have nothing to add to this thread. I just wanted to be a part of it.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Smoking Pot and Crashing....*



IARider said:


> Here's what I think happened, the OP bought the bike, then realized he paid too much for it, and then upon making a couple questionable landings broke the fork on an actual good landing (I'm just going with what was said so far) and now the OP wants to recoup some of his losses.
> 
> (If this opinion offends anyone, I'm sorry, but its my opinion, so yeah)


From the same photoalbum as the bike pics, there are a few pic like this.....
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/thehotdude/Mybikeandjoint002.jpg

My speculation...

Kid blazes a doob, misjudges a jump on a brand new (to him) bike. 
He can't tell mom and dad that he's higher than a kite and tore himself up.
He throws the bike and fork under the bus along with the seller...


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

gamepsyched said:


> N^ i have no idea what that means.


You should google it. It might help you understand this concept of taking responsibility that everyone is trying to explain to you.


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## ducktape (May 21, 2007)

I imagine you posted here to air your frustrations. Buying 2nd hand we have to accept that sort of risk, but that's not going to stop one feeling pissed off when something like that happens.

I can understand how you would be angry and want to sue, but that's just ridiculous - unless of course you had proof the fork was crakcked when you brought it - but in that case you would have returned the bike and not have ridden on it.

I think it's rather nice of the seller to offer to replace your fork, he's certainly not obliged to. So from my view you either return the whole bike and demand a refund, or you take the replacement fork, or you suck it up and buy a new fork for yourself - but obviously I'd do a good check over the entire bike first!

And yeah if everyone was like that (sue happy) I'm sure glad I don't live in the good old USofA.
But it's not just the USA, you know in some private schools here it got ridiculous - like kids not allowed to do hand stands and the like at play time becasue they "might hurt themselves". After a parent uproar I think they came to their senses. You know pretty much soon you may not be allowed to dirt jump your bike because everyone will be scared of litigation should you happen to stuff up and hurt yourself (like whoever owns the land you ride on etc etc)

Although yeah I forgot you guys have to pay hefty medical bills, here in the good land of Oz we are covered by medicare (government) to some extent which I'm extremely grateful for, even if it isn't a perfect system.

So what are you going to do?


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## Ricko (Jan 14, 2004)

LOL LOL LOL LOL...After reading your thread I laughed so hard at your considering suing the seller that I almost choked on my beer... so I'm going to sue YOU! My lawyers will be in touch .

Oh, I love this country!


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## brianthebiker (Nov 1, 2005)

gamepsyched said:


> *if i cant play basketball im definitely F'IN that guy up*.


You sound like a real class act.....couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.


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## jason.R (Jul 6, 2008)

gamepsyched said:


> I didnt say i was going straight to sueing him i am 15 years old and i have no intention of bringing this to court (My parents obviously want to) I stated that i want to settle this the most calm way possible ( no court and no fighting) i want to reason with him.





gamepsyched said:


> And im going to get x-rays tomorrow i might have cracked my knee (again) right before basketball season *sigh* and if i cant play basketball im definitely F'IN that guy up. Lol but thanks for the comments.


Yea, sure sounds like you want to settle this "in the most calm way" You are a MORON!:thumbsup:


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## dragbike (Jun 10, 2005)

Back in the mid 90's I bought a used snowboard. 2nd or 3rd time out I went off a jump, landed a little squirly and the back binding ripped right out of the board. Fell on the icy hard pack and dislocated my shoulder.

I never once for a moment thought - "sue the guy who sold me this board".

Its called assumption of risk. MTBing and dirt jumping aren't hopscotch!

Go to Marzocchi's website. The following link appears to be your fork, Click on tech manual and read the safety warnings. They mention "possible serious injury or death".
They also mention having the fork inspected by a qualified bike shop if you suspect possible damage.

http://www.marzocchi.com/Template/d...4#DQG#&Prgho\hdu&#@#5479&mCJ=&IDOggetto=56194

be glad you're not hurt worse than you are and chalk it up to a life-lesson.

Your dad shouldn't have let you buy it in the 1st place.


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## emtnate (Feb 9, 2008)

...


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Learn and move on.*

OP, you just learned a valuable life lesson. Bikes break. Sometimes they break right after you buy them. It doesn't matter that you landed the jump correctly. The damage to the fork probably happened over time. Dirt jumping is pretty hard on gear after all. The catastrophic failure happened when you were on it, and that is unlucky for you. You claim that there was evidence of damage before you jumped the bike, which further strengthens the case against you. Do not ever jump a bike that has known or suspected structural damage. I can understand your disappointment, but life is chock-full of those, so get used to it. I can understand your parents being angry enough to want to sue the seller, but what do they actually know about mountain bikes?
In my youth I studied this particular area of law. In Canada you have a different system than in the States. For a start, courts very rarely award punitive damages, and you would have to prove that the seller was outrageously, deliberately negligent. You would only be in the running for damages to cover your actual loss, which as far as I can tell, amounts to about $25 since that is what he is offering another second hand fork for. You can't claim any damages for your knee injury, since the state is going to pick up the tab on that one, and you admit having a pre-existing injury to the same knee. Finally, the burden of proof is on you, which means you have to prove beyond doubt that the seller knew the goods were faulty, which in this instance you can't possibly do. Ultimately, the legal maxim of caveat emptor applies. Literally it means 'buyer beware'. As soon as you give him the money and take the bike it is your responsibility.
I think the seller is being pretty good about the whole thing. Offering you $50 or another fork for $25 is more than many people would do. If I was in his situation and I got wind of you talking about beating me up over the incident you would get nothing whatsoever. I think you should take is offer, thank him profusely, and move on with your life.

Best of luck to you.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

rdhood said:


> First, I disagree that jumping a bike designed to jump should be a problem. A fork should not break. The manufacturer has some liability here. 5-6 years is *not* old. A fork should not break like that through any amount of doing what it was designed to do. If the fork was described as being a "jump fork", the manufacturer may bear some responsibility.
> ....


BS.. Things wear out over time, and jumping takes a toll on equipment. So, if a tire wears out rolling, it's the manufacturers fault? or is it that maybe it has already more than 100,000 miles on it?


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

What model is the fork?

Is the fork made for jumping?

The bike frame might be designed for jumping but that doesn't automatically mean that the forks are.

The 2002 Kona Stuff was sold with a 2002 Marzocchi EXR fork which is a X Country fork that isn't made or designed for jumping.
Links in blue.


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## jawndoe (Feb 7, 2008)

I hope you take him to court and lose so the lawyer can suck up your parents cash for being retarded. I hope you can't play basketball and go attempt to beat the guy up, only to wind up with two busted knee's. And what does the sellers religion have anything to do with this. Even IF the seller knew the fork was thrashed, your dumbass knew too. You are trying to take advantage of somebody because of your mistake? 

Karma is going to be a *****.


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## AndysTrek (Jul 18, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, when did every moron in a forum become an attorney? What's this "you may have a case if this" "you don't have a case".... That is all beside the point! The guy is an idiot. I'm 100% in agreement, karma came full circle, and this whiney little prick got what he deserved. Now he's crying it's everyones fault but his? My favorite part is the "I'm gonna f-k him up!" YEAH! That's the mentality to be known for. Why not show your kids how to properly handle the situation, yeah, punch him in the nose! The best part is, someday you're going to try that as a solution, and karma will come full circle again, and you're gonna get your arse handed to you but someone you least expect. And THAT, my firends, is a funny day.


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## retro-newb (Aug 20, 2008)

dude buddy bro-man its simple you hucked it on a jump it happens.. when i break something on my bike i look at it as a opportunity to upgrade!! 

did someone see the jump? maybe you didnt pull up hard enough and jammed the fork to hard? who knows

but at 15 you'll heal up just fine ,if not modern medical procedures can rebuild what we break ) . and as far as the guy who sold ya the bike leave him be was'nt his fault,sounds like a nice guy to offer a cheap solution to fix it. but if your jumping on it alot get a better fork alltogether. or i'll buy the bike as is for a c-note  (just kidding).

at the end of the day i hope you heal up for b-ball,get a better fork and jump on!


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Wow, Darwin nearly got his man. Sue him? Beat him? Get real. And get over it.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

> I didnt say i was going straight to sueing him i am 15 years old and i have no intention of bringing this to court (My parents obviously want to) I stated that i want to settle this the most calm way possible ( no court and no fighting) i want to reason with him.


 - So how does threatening to beat the seller up or sue him on a public internet forum fit into settling this in a calm way? That's called being a prick and being upset and angry and wanting to blame someone else for something that happened you should have been looking out for. If your parents think they should sue this guy then they are idiots too and should never have bumped uglies because obviously there was no life guard on duty in either of their gene pools the day they made you! 
Yeah you want to reason with him, if by reason you mean insult and threaten him and whine and ***** till he gives you what you want.....



> However, I know i should have got it checked out but does anyone not think that he should of had it checked before he sold it so he would know if someone would be put in danger?


 - OK so now you are expecting the seller to do all the work and check the bike over before selling it to you? Yeah I am sure people would love that. I wouldn't mind doing this, but I'd add on the $50-60 fee to recoup my bill at the bike shop for getting the bike looked at so some other little idiot who knew better wouldn't break the bike and then get litigation happy or threaten me! You just admitted this is your fault. Sorry if you thought you had any case (which you didn't) you just screwed the pooch on that one!



> I know it was AS-IS but i do think it is as much responsibility for the seller to make sure it wont be defective as it is me.


 - WRONG! He sold it as is, you bought the bike before ever posting on here asking for advice. People told you you should have the bike checked before riding it, you agreed, but did not follow through! That makes it your fault! Why should the seller pay to check over a bike he is selling and just basically lower his own price by $50-60 he won't get back when he sells you the bike. Perhaps you should have had it looked over at a bike shop with him before purchasing the bike.

As for threatening to beat his ass I hope he puts his 18 year old Christian boot in your face. You'd look awful funny trying to play basketball with one knee brace and a jaw wired shut.

Chalk this up to a life lesson and tell your parents you were a dumbass and you are the only one at fault. Sounds like another case of spoiled rich kid too dumb to know what they are getting into and then mommy and daddy thinking their angel couldn't be at fault

Personally I think someone should take this picture and mail it to your parents and your local law enforcement.


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## jcaino (May 26, 2007)

caveat emptor, case closed.


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

gamepsyched said:


> OK, i have read ALL these posts and i have a few things to say.
> 
> I didnt say i was going straight to sueing him i am 15 years old and i have no intention of bringing this to court (My parents obviously want to) I stated that i want to settle this the most calm way possible ( no court and no fighting) i want to reason with him.
> 
> ...


OK, I remember reading something from you about F'in this guy up; you are the one who brought up the lawsuit sh^^, too. Here's a few thoughts:

1. It is NOT the seller's responsibility to have the bike checked out for safety; it's YOURS. Only if there's OBVIOUS defect or damage can you call the seller on trying to sell a defective product. Your parents are idiots for wanting to sue.

2. The USA isn't any better or worse than anywhere else -- every country in the world is populated and run by PEOPLE, so they all have problems and virutes. Personally, I'd move to Canada if the winters weren't so much more severe than where I'm living. So, I agree with you about the nations dispute.

3. As far as the proposed violence toward the seller, well...if I was the seller, you couldn't F me up if I helped you -- don't try and don't bother with him, either. Your testosterone-running-amuck youth will not make up for your relatively low level of strength and experience. When you can pick up the back of a car, and not holler when bones break, then you may be ready to F someone up.


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## mondaycurse (Nov 24, 2005)

So bikes are immune from damage after you buy them? Sh*t happens. Get a new fork and be happy.


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## Cubensis (May 31, 2008)

> Personally I think someone should take this picture and mail it to your parents and your local law enforcement.


Yah! Cops have been known to kick in doors for pics of weed in your Photobucket!!! :nono:

Donna Summer....Summah Donna!


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## songairen (Jul 3, 2008)

I know what I'd do. Buy that fork being offered for $25, get some knee/shin armour and go for a ride. No dramas.


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## AndysTrek (Jul 18, 2008)

Don't take the sellers money either. You've made stupid decision after stupid decision, the seller has no responsibility. Maybe by owning up to all this drama, and fixing the situation by YOURSELF, you'll remember it a little more clearly next time it can be applicable to your life. Never take some restitution for an idiotic thing you've done. It's ignorant.


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

gamepsyched said:


> Bump!


Bet he wishes he hadn't done that.


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## ettore (Nov 13, 2004)

BTW: that lawyer definitely just wants to make money off you. In Canada, sueing isn't so easy. If you lose, you're deffinitely paying the guy's lawyer fees which, since he knows he won't lose, will be getting the most expensive one he can find.

In the end, you pay for two lawyers (which will be a lot more $$ than your bike or a sweet replacement fork will cost), you will have wasted a lot of your time, and your parents will finally learn that sueing is a giant waste of time if you just want to make someone pay for something that is questionably your fault (and, with little gain).

Cool bike; lame fork. Might want to have that frame looked at as well.


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## Roswell52 (Mar 25, 2008)

gamepsyched said:


> Hey i bought a kona stuff '02 from cragslist for $350 and i rode it just in
> 
> town and stuff for a few days and then one day i decide to dirt jump with it
> 
> ...


I don't usually like to sling mud on the Forum, but in your case, I can't resist. BUSTED! I call _********_ based on information supplied by you in your own posts.

As always, there is _"his version, your version, and the truth!"_

Your original picture of your newly acquired bike taken by you on 9/8/2008 at 9:32PM with a Kodak Digital Z740 camera.....








Your _"after I broke it"_ picture taken with the exact same camera on 9/14/2008 at 7:43PM








The pictures speak for themselves, and clearly demonstrates that you took delivery of a bike with the fork in relatively good condition, and then subsequently damaged the fork prior to the picture you took on 9/14/2008. You did that fork damage doing a simple jump? Not buying that one either...

The judge rules for the Craiglist defendant, and clears him of all charges in your case. The judge then charges you with contempt-of-court, lying-under-oath, attempted fraud, and making terroristic threats against the defendant. In addition, the Craiglist defendant plans to sue you for slander, liable and fraud for be-searching his good name on the forum...:thumbsup:


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

gamepsyched said:


> Well the attorney said i had a case. It may be used but that should not of happened the first time i go jumping, so it had to be ****ed up before. And im going to get x-rays tomorrow i might have cracked my knee (again) right before basketball season *sigh* and if i cant play basketball im definitely F'IN that guy up. Lol but thanks for the comments.


I'm sorry that you're hurt, but it also sounds like you need some lessons.

1. Dirt jumping has risk, and can result in new new stuff breaking too.
2. New and used purchases carry risk, and especially so with used purchases.
3. Anybody can have a case, and even if the case has no merit.

If you go forward with the attorney I would suggest getting shirts, buttons and stickers printed that say "I am a fool." If you realize accidents happen, work at healing up and try to negotiate something with the seller you can join the world's winners.

Good luck!


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

The photos also look like the fork is from one of the XC and marathon series and not dirt jumper series.


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## EpicProportions (Jul 8, 2008)

> The photos also look like the fork is from one of the XC and marathon series and not dirt jumper series.


I searched the Marzocchi site. The fork more likely is a DirtJumper II series fork from 2002. The look is similar for the XC, Marathon, and DJ II series.

Regardless, as said over and over again: Caveat emptor (defined in English as Let the buyer beware).


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## ejasonm (Jun 2, 2006)

God i really can't stand people that are ready to sue at the drop of a hat. Let me guess, if you were in credit card debt you would run the balances up and then claim bankruptcy also!!!! Take responsibility yourself, heal up and buy a new fork.


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## w0318 (May 29, 2008)

what would you do if the seller "counter sues" you? have you thought about that?
It can be costly for you if you lose, remember that.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

Buyer just accept you made a bad choice and tried to tackle a jump with inferior, old equipment and it broke. Now have mommy and daddy cough up another 200-300 buckaroos and they can buy you a nice dirt jumping fork so you can get high all you want and launch off some sweet jumps!

Then when it breaks you can sue mommy and daddy and have them put in jail for child endangerment!

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## splattered (Jul 11, 2007)

i didn't read all the posts but why the hell would you try to sue the guy, he said he would give you the same model fork for $25 so you can get the bike up and running again, **** happens when you ride, and unless the kid started laughing at you when you called him back i can't see any reason for physical harm, or a legal battle, i'm sure you have taken a few soil samples before this crash, did you go home call a lawyer with the hopes of taking the land manager to court, 

think about it, the bike is 6 years old there is bound to be a few things wrong with it, for instance i have a stock 2003 norco vps drop every time i huck it i prey the fork dosn't snap and the chain stays hold up, advice to you, buy the new fork, go over the bike with a fine toothed comb to make sure it dosn't have any stress fractures, and hang the broken fork on the wall to remind you (you are too much of a beast to ride with normal components)


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## koldsimer1 (Jul 31, 2008)

I just wanna get this straight... your used bike broke and now your ready to sue and fight the guy who sold it to you,right? Hilarious.

I wish I had sold you that bike. You could find out real quick why i'm not a xc racer.

Your used bike broke a part... get over it and grow up douchebaggerton.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

How could the seller have known about it, kicking his ass won't solve anything. Parts break, period.

Take him up on that fork offer, visually inspect it before hand.


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