# 2011 Demo 8: Is the frame particularly heavy?



## RJJ (Jul 19, 2006)

I am expecting delivery of my 2011 Demo 8 very soon, and when I weighed a medium frameset in a shop on their scales and it was exactly 12 pounds including shock, seat post, axle headset cups and chain stay protector. I guess this would equate to a minimum of about 11.7 pounds for just the frame and shock. Allowing for about 2.4 pounds (38 oz) for the shock and coil (I think this is reasonably accurate guess), gives a frame only weight of 9.3 pounds. 

Apparently from this forum and others, (and I know there is a lot of misinformation on real weights) there are plenty of DH 8" frames weighing at least 20% less than this.

Specialized claimed a reduction of ¾ pound for the 2011 model over the 2010 frame. 

So my question is whether you think that is a good DH frame weight or not, and have they really taken ¾ pounds off the frame?

I am not a weight weenie at all, however I was just interested in where it may sit relative to other similar bikes.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

your seatpost/headset cups and chainstay weigh more then 0.3 pounds surely.

and as for the weight itself, most of it sits super low on the frame. i doubt you will have to worry about it.

Also there seems to be a lot of the new demos kicking around at around 37-39 lbs.. about as good as it gets for a full DH bike build without spending silly cash on exotic materials 


my legend isnt the lightest frame by far. but since im not a sponsored rider, i hope the 1 pound or so extra weight is worth in lasting when it gets a beating  + weight again sits super low on the frame, so i dont really notice it


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## hampstead bandit (Feb 9, 2009)

2011 Demo 8 frame is ballpark weight for contemporary DH racing frame

don't worry about it, its sturdy enough not to easily dent, and a really good ride on rough ground

if you need to save more weight, do it in the components as its always easier / cheaper to replace bent parts than a cracked or bent frame! 


we weighed Devinci's new 2011 Wilson SP bike in the RC (mid range) model and it was 40.5lb with the Demo 8 bike we weighed coming in at 39lb 

both with pedals....


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

RJJ said:


> Specialized claimed a reduction of ¾ pound for the 2011 model over the 2010 frame.
> 
> So my question is whether you think that is a good DH frame weight or not, and have they really taken ¾ pounds off the frame?


Why would you NOT think Specialized took 3/4lb off? Older Demos were heavy with extra stays.


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## SlickShoe671 (Jan 23, 2008)

2011s still have extra stays.


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

SlickShoe671 said:


> 2011s still have extra stays.


No sh1t. Means there are lots of places to take weight off.


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## eleven-yo (Dec 6, 2005)

*sitting low? oh boy*



DeanH said:


> and as for the weight itself, most of it sits super low on the frame. + weight again sits super low on the frame, so i dont really notice it


Since when does sitting "low" in the frame make a difference if your bike weighs a few pounds more than other frames? Is the next evolution talking about "where" your bike carries its weight? Does saving weight from your choice of saddle mean more than saving weight on your cranks because the cranks "sit low on the frame"?.
I'm being a little sarcastic, but its a serious question. This seems like a BS claim - or at least one that seems to sidestep the OP's question. 
Has anyone weighed a 2011 Demo frame?


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

eleven-yo said:


> Since when does sitting "low" in the frame make a difference if your bike weighs a few pounds more than other frames? Is the next evolution talking about "where" your bike carries its weight? Does saving weight from your choice of saddle mean more than saving weight on your cranks because the cranks "sit low on the frame"?.
> I'm being a little sarcastic, but its a serious question. This seems like a BS claim - or at least one that seems to sidestep the OP's question.
> Has anyone weighed a 2011 Demo frame?


I can't tell if you're joking or not. Yes, where the weight sits 100% counts. ever hear of center of gravity? notice how every bicycle on the market tries to put the shock as close to the cranks as possible?

but seriously, weight is weight, and you cant let that extra 3/4 a pound slow you down. It will hold you back, for reals. just ask that guy who just won junior world champs...er, and the other guy, the one who won normal world champs.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

eleven-yo said:


> Since when does sitting "low" in the frame make a difference if your bike weighs a few pounds more than other frames? Is the next evolution talking about "where" your bike carries its weight? Does saving weight from your choice of saddle mean more than saving weight on your cranks because the cranks "sit low on the frame"?.
> I'm being a little sarcastic, but its a serious question. This seems like a BS claim - or at least one that seems to sidestep the OP's question.
> Has anyone weighed a 2011 Demo frame?


Since always 

weight isnt just weight..

Take a heavy saddle on the end of a seatpost.. vs a light saddle.. you can feel the difference when you move it from side to side.. ofc this is on a much smaller scale on a moving bike but.. it still matters

on the bike, you want as much weight of the frame to go as low as possible for the purpose of better stability. at least for DH frames.


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## Uncle Six Pack (Aug 29, 2004)

eleven-yo said:


> Since when does sitting "low" in the frame make a difference if your bike weighs a few pounds more than other frames? Is the next evolution talking about "where" your bike carries its weight? Does saving weight from your choice of saddle mean more than saving weight on your cranks because the cranks "sit low on the frame"?.
> I'm being a little sarcastic, but its a serious question. This seems like a BS claim - or at least one that seems to sidestep the OP's question.
> Has anyone weighed a 2011 Demo frame?


I am sure the guy who rides the 12 foot tall unicycle in the circus would tell you it is harder to ride than the 4 ft unicycle.... maybe an exaggeration, but think about how location of mass matters.

With that being said, I doubt the demo outweighs comparable frames by "a few pounds" (maybe it weighs more than the disposable 1-season frames, though). I also doubt the weight is so much lower that it makes much of a difference, but when you want to win world cup DHs, you put all the engineering in you can.

And talking about where a bike carries its weight is not the next evolution.... motocross and road racing have already been doing it for a loooong time.

To the OP-do not compare the demo to bikes made of ridiculously thin tubes. You are going to have a ridiculously nice bike. Anything much lighter will likely be getting on the fragile side from what I have heard.


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## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

i didnt weight my frame but my large build came in at exactly 40lbs with a fox 40. This is about a 2-3 lb loss from my 2010, but the build was nowhere near the same so its kindof a mute comparison...but alas its lighter . and dood...its a demo. Go ahead and try to break it, if you can pull it off specialized rewards you by sending you a new frame free of charge!!!! Seriously though i put my 2010 through some ugly ass riding and it still takes a ticking. I actually have a video of me bending the bike frame by flating a drop, demo took it like a champ!


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## mtb-sam (Dec 10, 2008)

my 11' Demo 8 ll weighed 39 out of the box. Put a ligher seat and post, pedals and SX casing tires and its sitting right at 37.4


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

I have a 2010 Demo with a fox 40 with the heavy steel green spring, non ti sprung rear and it's right around 39 lbs. Your new Demo will probably come out lighter than that, but if you have a problem with a 39 pound dh bike and you're not a professional racer then you're pretty mental.


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## tuumbaq (Oct 6, 2005)

his dudeness said:


> I have a 2010 Demo with a fox 40 with the heavy steel green spring, non ti sprung rear and it's right around 39 lbs. Your new Demo will probably come out lighter than that, but if you have a problem with a 39 pound dh bike and you're not a professional racer then you're pretty mental.


You dont have to be a pro racer to appreciate a lighter bike !!! Its like saying you have to be Michael Schumacher to buy a Ferrari.:madman: Actually, pros dont pay for their bikes and its their jobs to ride them.Since I pay for my bike and its only a hobby for me, I'd like to get the highest fun factor out of it.

Im not gonna list the benefit of a lighter bike and yes 39 is decent but not light by any means. Im pretty sure ANYONE would notice the difference in weight between a 36 and say a 40 pounds bike...Demos arent the lightest and @ 39 pounds out of the box they are actually on the heavy side of the scale IMO, not that 39 is heavy but there's quite a few other bikes sitting @ 36-37 out of the box nowadays.

Still though, I would rock a 39 pounds bike any second if it was a great bike ... but Demos arent on my list of great bikes


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## jcook1989 (Mar 16, 2008)

tuumbaq said:


> You dont have to be a pro racer to appreciate a lighter bike !!! Its like saying you have to be Michael Schumacher to buy a Ferrari.:madman:


But you do have to be Michael Schumacher or another top level driver to push a Ferrari to the limits and notice the small performance issues that it may has.

I think the point he was trying to make is that a typical rider can't really pick out small differences whereas a pro is much more in tune with his bike and notice minute differences much more readily.


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

tuumbaq said:


> You dont have to be a pro racer to appreciate a lighter bike !!! Its like saying you have to be Michael Schumacher to buy a Ferrari.:madman: Actually, pros dont pay for their bikes and its their jobs to ride them.Since I pay for my bike and its only a hobby for me, I'd like to get the highest fun factor out of it.
> 
> Im not gonna list the benefit of a lighter bike and yes 39 is decent but not light by any means. Im pretty sure ANYONE would notice the difference in weight between a 36 and say a 40 pounds bike...Demos arent the lightest and @ 39 pounds out of the box they are actually on the heavy side of the scale IMO, not that 39 is heavy but there's quite a few other bikes sitting @ 36-37 out of the box nowadays.
> 
> Still though, I would rock a 39 pounds bike any second if it was a great bike ... but Demos arent on my list of great bikes


Look. If you are a professional racer, semi professional racer, or otherwise riding your bike against a clock with a goal to win something then absolutely make that bike as light as you can. If one pound equals 1 second on the clock then it matters. If you are a regular guy who likes to ride your dh bike at ski resorts and wherever you can shuttle and the only races you win are against your friends then 1 pound doesn't really matter as long as you have a bike that works for you. If you want to spend $400-1,000 to drop weight off your bike then go for it but it isn't going to be a crucial "I have to have it" situation. As far as saying that ANYONE noticind a 4 pound difference in a bike do you mean by anyone picking up the bike or anyone actually riding the bike?

In the end the parts spec that you put on the bike determines the weight. I could throw on a boxxer wc, a vivid air, carbon bar, carbon post, and run 7 inch rotors and the bike would easily be at 36 pounds with dh casing tires. I just happen to like my build better and run with the midset that by lightening the body and making your motor more powerful which is free vs. spending tons of money on lighter and less durable parts.


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## Christiaan (Jun 23, 2004)

Guy from the UK, 35.28lbs, with coil shock


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## eleven-yo (Dec 6, 2005)

I have a couple questions:

1. Two bikes, with no other significant differences besides weight and CG height:
Bike A is a 40 lb bike with a CG height of 19 inches.
Bike B is a 39 lb bike with a CG height of 19.5 inches.
Which would you take? Test rides not allowed, just pick based on CG height and weight.

2. If CG height is very important, will you notice a performance gain if I took all the stuff thats in my backpack and taped it onto my downtube on my trail bike? What if I put my two Hamms tall cans in a frame pack instead of in my jersey pockets?

3. Does wearing a hydration pack instead of using water bottles affect my bike handling?

4. What is it about 29ers that are making them popular? It seems that the rotational inertia of the wheels is going to have the exact opposite effect of "flickability". But lots of folks like them. Would those people like higher CGs, or is the rotational inertia lowering the total CG height of the bike? Time to go dust off some textbooks...

As I eluded to previously, I'm a bit of a skeptic, because the mass centralization movement in motorcycle design doesn't translate directly to mountain bikes for a few reasons. One is the ratio of rider to vehicle weight. On a motorcycle, its in the range of .35 to .5. On a mountain bike, the ratio is 4 to 5. This is a big difference, so just saying "its talked about in motorcycles" doesn't mean its good for bikes. 
Additionally, since most bikes will have wheels at the same height, the fork at the same height, the variants include the shock height, and a coil shock is about 2 pounds, or 5% of the total bike weight. Moving it up 5 inches results in a .3 inch change of CG height for example.
The only time anyone seems to bring up "the weight is down low" on their bike is when their bike is heavier. If you don't mind that its heavier for any or all of the reasons listed in this thread then just be OK with it and stop trying to change the subject to "mass centralization" or CG height or anything like that. 

I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong here - I'm not religious about my beliefs and maybe there's some aspects I'm not thinking of, but let's have an honest discourse, no need for flinging turds.


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## snow-man (Aug 19, 2004)

Some of the over-thought responses/questions in this thread are friggin HILARIOUS!


Bottom line, throw a leg over a 2011 Demo and all your negative ponders will just fly away.

Weight will be the LAST thing on your mind when ripping down the trail on this rig. Your biggest problem will then become how do I SLOW DOWN.


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## Truckee Trash (Sep 18, 2007)

snow-man said:


> Some of the over-thought responses/questions in this thread are friggin HILARIOUS!
> 
> Bottom line, throw a leg over a 2011 Demo and all your negative ponders will just fly away.
> 
> Weight will be the LAST thing on your mind when ripping down the trail on this rig. Your biggest problem will then become how do I SLOW DOWN.


Agreed!


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## norbar (Jun 5, 2007)

Demo Medium, W/o Shock.


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## Uncle Six Pack (Aug 29, 2004)

eleven-yo said:


> I have a couple questions:
> 
> 1. Two bikes, with no other significant differences besides weight and CG height:
> Bike A is a 40 lb bike with a CG height of 19 inches.
> ...


I see what you are getting at. If you want to be skeptical, then fine. It is very hard to quantify the difference it makes to "have the weight low". Every bit as hard as it is to quantify the difference in feel between a 38 lb bike and a 39 lb bike.

Design is a sum of its parts... you can not just look at one element (location of weight, amount of weight) and think that a single piece of data could tell the whole story. If someone likes the demo, then they like the whole bike, not just where the center of mass happens to be.

I doubt you could tell the difference between 2 identical DH builds, but one has a solid 1 lb lead slug somewhere in the seat tube-even in back-to-back riding.

But that is just e-speculation. You are really just better off riding a bike you like.


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

snow-man said:


> Some of the over-thought responses/questions in this thread are friggin HILARIOUS!
> 
> Bottom line, throw a leg over a 2011 Demo and all your negative ponders will just fly away.
> 
> Weight will be the LAST thing on your mind when ripping down the trail on this rig. Your biggest problem will then become how do I SLOW DOWN.


Why? Did they subtract weight by neglecting to install brakes?


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## SlickShoe671 (Jan 23, 2008)

Cable0guy said:


> No sh1t. Means there are lots of places to take weight off.


Sorry, I figured you were retarded. Turns out your just an a$$hole :thumbsup:


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## eleven-yo (Dec 6, 2005)

norbar FTW. 
shut er' down boys


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## egsavio (Apr 21, 2007)

tuumbaq said:


> Still though, I would rock a 39 pounds bike any second if it was a great bike ... but Demos arent on my list of great bikes


Say your list, please. V10, Turner DHR, Foes 2:1 and which more?


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## egsavio (Apr 21, 2007)




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## ustemuf (Oct 12, 2009)

my black frame doesnt come for another couple months.. damn it!


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

I have to agree with weighing a bike or trying to decide if its heavy by just picking it up. I was a little disapointed my Jedi didnt build up lighter. I didnt put much effort into but I think it always feels heavy just picking it up. On the trail I dont feel the weight at all. The bike rips, jump sinsane and thats all that matters. Why focus on weight if its going to sit at the back of you heed and bug the shite out of you. 

Maybe its cause I am no racer and never clock myself. I am happy if I can complete a run that felt smooth, I hit all my lines but most important is how the bike is off the lip and in the air - this is for me. The Jedi at 40.5lbs is a crazy as bike on the trail and I just dont think about weight any more. Maybe it is better to do a few runs get your suspension dialled and then weigh the bike. Maybe you will just not bother if you are stoked with how she rides. If you race then it might be a different story. Why do people always make one of their first question "how much does she weigh?" Why not "how does she ride?"


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## SlickShoe671 (Jan 23, 2008)

ustemuf said:


> my black frame doesnt come for another couple months.. damn it!


Is this what your shop told you? Im waiting on one myself and if they pushed it back again Im going to be kinda pissed.


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## ustemuf (Oct 12, 2009)

SlickShoe671 said:


> Is this what your shop told you? Im waiting on one myself and if they pushed it back again Im going to be kinda pissed.


Yeah I put a deposit down on the frame.. they said it would be April/May before Specialized got em out... they asked me if I was okay with that .. 
Didn't have much of a choice! I want that black frame...


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## kylegoodmaster (Feb 23, 2010)




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## SlickShoe671 (Jan 23, 2008)

ustemuf said:


> Yeah I put a deposit down on the frame.. they said it would be April/May before Specialized got em out... they asked me if I was okay with that ..
> Didn't have much of a choice! I want that black frame...


Yup. End of April I was just told. I cant go two more months without a DH bike. I know I might regret it but im going for the euro gold/black frame. :thumbsup:


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## egsavio (Apr 21, 2007)

SlickShoe671 said:


> Yup. End of April I was just told. I cant go two more months without a DH bike. I know I might regret it but im going for the euro gold/black frame. :thumbsup:


My one would come in two months too. Then I bought a GT Fury that will arrive in one week.


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## ustemuf (Oct 12, 2009)

SlickShoe671 said:


> Yup. End of April I was just told. I cant go two more months without a DH bike. I know I might regret it but im going for the euro gold/black frame. :thumbsup:


I have a bike now but I'm trying to sell it... if it sells I'll have nothing.

but if that's the case, I'm just gonna spend the next two months carving out new trails at my local ride spot to keep me occupied for the time being... and have something to shred on when i get the ride!


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## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

eleven-yo said:


> 3. Does wearing a hydration pack instead of using water bottles affect my bike handling?


I'm sure it depends on the rider to a certain extent, but I notice a huge difference when I'm wearing my camelbak vs. when I am not. I wouldn't say it makes a difference in bike handling as much as rider handling  When riding XC, I normally wear one unless I'm racing or just trying to go faster. It definitely makes a noticeable difference. For DH, I don't normally wear one but I do occasionally. Usually for more remote rides where there is hiking involved or when I'm doing trailwork, and then I almost always drop it in a convenient place rather than wear it all the time. I have done runs with a battery powered sawzall in my pack - not the most comfortable thing in the world and it really showed me how having weight too far back wrecks the bike's handling. Again, it's a rider thing more than a bike thing.

I'd also say that the effect of a bike's weight is more dependent on the rider than anything else. As for me, the only things I really notice are the geometry, suspension characteristics, and the weight of the wheels. When I went from a 45lb bike to a 42lb bike, I can't say that I really noticed the weight difference Rather, I noticed the handling differences between a more freeride oriented single pivot (Jamis BAM) and a DH oriented VPP (951). I do race, but I am not a pro and haven't ridden enough different bikes to really be able to tell a lot of other differences. All said, I'd rather lose weight on my body than spend $ trying to drop weight off the bike. I could easily get my bike under 40lbs but I really don't see the point personally.

tl;dr: Ride your damn bike and stop over-analyzing everything. :thumbsup:


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