# Braking bumps ruining my fingers, help?



## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

Not even my hands, but the first joint on all my non-braking fingers SCREAM in pain after just one run. I'm not death-gripping, in fact I'm holding on so loose the pain is amplified by my fingers smashing the bars repeatedly. 

Is there anything I can do about this? I'd expect it from a second or third run or something, but not half way down the first. :/

Looking back, I had to quit MTB over this ~10 years ago b/c it would happen on XC rides as well (hands claw up, can't open fingers). Could never figure it out. Now, it only happens on lift-assisted stuff, and really only in fast braking bump sections.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

Could be several things contributing:
suspension set up-too stiff, damping not set up optimally
hand/grip/brake lever position

The majority of comfort issues I see are from people who haven't dialed in their suspension or who have haven't set up their bars/grips/brakes in a way that reduces fatigue and improves control.


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

i hear carbon bars can help with the vibration. but on the other-hand some people say they are stiffer and it's worse. Not sure what to believe at this point. I would think stiffer bars would be better so you can let the suspension and tires soak up the bumps. But they also make flex bars for motos/atvs that are designed to flex to absorb bumps. I am still debating on whether to get carbon eastons or answer/renthal aluminum bars.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Sounds like weak tendons. The muscles to actuate your fingers are in your forearms, but the tendons and fascia are the connective tissue and their strength probably has a lot to do with it. I do rock climbing and I spend a lot of time strengthening the tendons that run to my fingers. Maybe consider some sort of cross-training like this to make them stronger. I can't say I have any problem with this and I do DH at a very steep local ski mountain. The brakes make a big difference usually as well, but if they are working well, your ability to "clamp" is likely limited by the strength of the tendons.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Check your diet too! Yeah, I know, sounds insane but it counts. 
So by this I mean check what you're eating that may induce inflammatory response from the body. May also want to check into adding glucosamine supplements...this has helped my trigger finger on my #4 finger...right beside the pinky. And, when I was skiing lots, I'd dose up w/ 800mg of Ibuprofen an hour before hitting the hill. I now use Sportlegs and 600mg an hour before I go DHing.

BTW, how far off your bar is your lever stopping? And more importantly, are you using 1 or 2 fingers on your brake lever?


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

HTFU, seriously.

But also, you want us to make recommendations and tell us nothing about you physically, or the components on your bike, or what exactly you are riding? LOL.


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## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks all for responding! For those who asked, I had a pro DH rider help set up my suspension, pretty sure it's 'right'. Also, the problem continued to occur when I broke my fork (derp) and ended up demoing a Trek Session to finish out the day - the coil fork didn't help one bit. 

In talking to some other pros re: brake set up, I try to have my brakes actuate and finish their range of motion as close to the bars as possible to reduce arm pump, which isn't a problem for me anyway. Always 1 finger braking. For reference I'm 185 lbs, with another 10-15 of gear, with 2014 Elixir 9 Trails (4 pots). I am, however, upgrading to a 200mm front rotor. 

I already ride large grips (ESI chunky's) and don't have abnormally large hands (XL in fox gloves). 

To be honest, it's 100% not a problem on the local South OC/laguna trails I ride, and is really only an issue when I head to snow summit. It's not like there's death grip braking there either. 

My diet is admittedly horrible, but I don't know what to do about that. Half the fun of MTB is drinking beer after!  I did, however, use to take glucosamine for my knees a few months ago, so I have bottles lying around, I can pick back up with that.

Thanks all for the responses, really didn't expect this much feedback so quickly!


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

one more things. I used to be a HUGE fan of lock on grips. I would only use rogue lock-ons because of the simplicity of the design. I've found over the years that this actually made my hands cramp up a lot worse. I actually discovered this while riding my atv. I was using lock-ons and they transmitted almost all the vibrations from engine directly into my hands making them go numb fairly quickly. I put some plain ol' oury slip-ons and never had that problem again. I think it's the hard plastic under the grip. I think slip on grips are a pain in the ass but I definitely recommend them over lock-ons if you can get over the hassle. They are much softer.

also i'm a big supplement fanatic if you are into that type of stuff. DLPA helps inhibit the breakdown of endorphins in your body and can help a ton before going riding. Turmeric/curcumin and fish oil are great for inflammation too. OTC, I found naproxen more effective that ibuprofen. My doc says you can take up to 1000mg a day safely.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Snow Summit is hard on hands.....

Having a pro set up your suspension is not always smart....Pros run their suspension a little to a lot stiffer then "Regular Joe" riders. So you might want to softened up the suspension a little more i....

in addition....get some more powerful brakes...all the elixers I have rode take a lot more effort to stop then the Saints and hopes...basically in my opinion elixers are XC brakes not DH...argue all you want but they don't have the real stopping power.

if your grips are fat....then try small diameter ones/....if small switched to bigger

check out the specialized BG (body geometry) GEL gloves....they have gel to absorb the vibration New 2014 BG Gel Long Finger Wiretap Gloves for MTB ATV DH bike bicycle mountain bike cycling off road motocross racing gloves-in Gloves from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

brake harder to slow faster down then open up instead of being on brakes all the time.

relax more and breath....loosen up more....one training coach says "you suck because you are too stiff and passive. Think about that

finally what skill rider are you....you may want to invest in lessons to give you proper technique on body positioning, how to attack trail instead of trail attacking you and how to ride more loose.

these are some of the things that can attribute to hand fatigue


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## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

Second on the Elixr thing, not a great DH brake.

Try rotating your levers UPwards, so your fingers don't have to curl down and around the bar so much to reach the lever.

Keep riding, and ride more. It can take a while to build your hand strength up to where its comfortable.


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

what sort of condition are your grips in,,, are they worn out,,, i had a similar problem as you describe back in 2012 when i was in whistler, chronic pain in my fingers, ive never had it before, usually got arm pump but never hand pain, it was caused by my grips being worn out, i always liked and run the yeti grips as they are quite fat and fit my hands perfectly, obviously as they wore out they got thinner, and this slightly changed my grip on the bar, and caused stress on the joints, resulting in my pain, i rode solid for 3 weeks and my hands hurt like mad for months after, i have since built up a new bike and changed the grips and had no problems since, 
to combat my arm pump problem, i got some of them york forearm strengheners, them things that you squeeze, id do a few hunded squeezes a day to get my muscles used to cramping, and now i can do full garbo runs with no hand pump issues, 
also noticed a differance when i got rid of the crappy fox fork and threw a bos on, the better damping of the fork is much easier on my hands and arms,


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

2nd the bike fit comments (and the diet/ circumin), it can take time to get everything setup for your body position.. mm's make a difference. All the avids I've tried would be pretty weak for someone over 99 lbs.

You could try different braking technique to scrub speed sooner if you can, try pump-pump-pump (without skidding), sometimes you don't need to hold the lever down so long.. lets things cool down


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

I had the same issue. Carbon bars and non-lock on grips did it for me. I switched to sensus grips as they have a very soft compound. After long days I will still get some pain, but it is much less with this setup.


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## nauc (Sep 9, 2009)

probiscus said:


> Not even my hands, but the first joint on all my non-braking fingers SCREAM in pain after just one run. I'm not death-gripping, in fact I'm holding on so loose the pain is amplified by my fingers smashing the bars repeatedly.
> 
> Is there anything I can do about this? I'd expect it from a second or third run or something, but not half way down the first. :/
> 
> Looking back, I had to quit MTB over this ~10 years ago b/c it would happen on XC rides as well (hands claw up, can't open fingers). Could never figure it out. Now, it only happens on lift-assisted stuff, and really only in fast braking bump sections.


ask MTBA...

Mountain Bike Action Magazine | Ask MBA

you might just need some foam grips or thinner grips


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## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

I have the same problem. I'm pretty new to downhilling though, and don't spend much time doing it. It's all about tendon strength. Adjusting grip diameter can move pressure points around, or spread the pressure out wider across the fingers, reducing tendon fatigue. Training your fingers will help too - check out what rock climbers do to strengthen their finger tendons. Carbon bars and suspension adjustments might help, but I really think the key will be grip diameter and strengthening your finger tendons. You can always go see a physical therapist or a doctor as well, to get tips and suggestions on reducing tendon fatigue.

Anti-inflammatories may help, but recent studies have suggested to avoid using them, so it may or may not be good advice. It depends on what doctor you talk to.


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

Deerhill said:


> 2nd the bike fit comments (and the diet/ circumin), it can take time to get everything setup for your body position.. mm's make a difference. All the avids I've tried would be pretty weak for someone over 99 lbs.
> 
> You could try different braking technique to scrub speed sooner if you can, try pump-pump-pump (without skidding), sometimes you don't need to hold the lever down so long.. lets things cool down


Bah avid gave us juicys as dh brakes for years. 4 pots are just slammers and don't heat up as fast. I road single pot oros all weekend at snow summit. It's all you need.

I used to get the same feel when I had crappy skinny grips.


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## gollub01 (Mar 24, 2008)

You might want to check out some ESI grips as well....

They look like foam but are actually silicon. Pretty good in most conditions but pure mud slime.

They do a damn good job of giving your hands a break, we've been running them on the DH bikes and they are a good option, also cheap..

The hot set-up is to run a ODI clamp on the outside however, the only way to make them DH proof.


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## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

Funny, i actually use ESI chunky's on my personal ride. Unfortunately my fork died at Snow Summit and the demo session 88 had thin, hard, rubber grips. I definitely do like the ESI's w/ ODI clamps though.

With my forks into Fox for a fix, I'm going to be more focused on rock climbing exercises like the finger-only pull up and finger tip push ups to see if that stuff helps. 

I'm also going back to the glucosamine supplements JIC.

Finally shop is installing a 200mm front rotor to see if that helps. Trying not to blow $300-500 on another set of brakes if I can avoid it - I'm thinking the avids have 4 pots, they should be sufficient :/

Thanks all!


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

I just started noticing that at SS too. Clicking down compression by two or three solved it.


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

non-lock on grips help a ton imo


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

metalMTB said:


> non-lock on grips help a ton imo


Loving my Oury lock-on on my DH bike. But I do have carbon bar on every one of my bikes.


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## ithacking (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm sorry to bother, but what are braking bumps? From what i've read it's when you hit your brakes while going over rocky/bumpy section? I abuse my trail bike for DH and haven't felt that ever. 

I also run brutal high pressures, usually 150psi but goes up to 175. Pretty stiff. My grips are worn out, slippy (throttle grip) but soft rubber. Alloy riser bar. My brakes are practical vertical? They drop like straight down, 90 degrees drop. Grip fit straight between my index and thumb section. Try that out. Since i don't really know what are braking bumps i can't tell.


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## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

Here's a vid from one of my SS runs: 




1:05 - 1:14 is full of them.

Another good example is in my vid this weekend:




0:22 - 0:26 is also full of them.

Basically high-frequency bomb holes in the trail from barneys skidding it up. If it rained more than 1x in the last 9 months they'd be 'less' shitty.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

This isn't an attempt to talk crap...just want to lay that up upfront. 
But probiscus, judging by that video, you're not moving fast enough to justify a "pro" rider's tune...it'll shake your fillings out w/ how stiff they typically like their setup. I'm listening to how your bike is reacting and sounding...seems like you can dial back on LSC setting a LOT...or you need to address some loose bolts left in your frame!  

Did the person who helped you set up your bike take into account your ability level and speed?


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## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

Yeah, the speed was down quite a bit owing to the pain in my hands. Never said I was a pro level rider either. I don't even race, but venture I'd be mid-pack sport fodder assuming I can ride a bike that isn't effectively a rigid on all but 5 foot drops.

The bike in the SS vid was an end-of-season Session 88 that was probably 200 hours overdue for oil / tune / seals. As with all demos, it was a total piece of ****.  The LSC was all the way dialed back, that was literally stiction causing the fork not to eat any of that vibration... that's how bad that setup was.

The bike in the oaks vid is also an end-of-season demo that I was riding while I await my replacement fork from Fox  Also in need of a tune, seals, oil, etc.

In any case, I can ride 'better' on my bike - but my point was, even on my bike, my hands were getting annihilated. Which is a consistent theme on brake bump heavy runs.

Here's a better vid of me chasing two pros on local dirt:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

probiscus said:


> Yeah, the speed was down quite a bit owing to the pain in my hands. Never said I was a pro level rider either. I don't even race, but venture I'd be mid-pack sport fodder assuming I can ride a bike that isn't effectively a rigid on all but 5 foot drops.
> 
> The bike in the SS vid was an end-of-season Session 88 that was probably 200 hours overdue for oil / tune / seals. As with all demos, it was a total piece of ****.  The LSC was all the way dialed back, that was literally stiction causing the fork not to eat any of that vibration... that's how bad that setup was.
> 
> ...


Wooo...that trail looks like a TON of fun!

Say, an idea...mount your camera on your frame and look at how your fork is behaving.


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## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

Pau11y said:


> Wooo...that trail looks like a TON of fun!
> 
> Say, an idea...mount your camera on your frame and look at how your fork is behaving.


I would, I just can't see myself going back to SS if it's going to hurt that bad. The hand pain is a total day-ruiner and occurs about half way down run 1.

Hands don't hurt on local trails, presumably b/c they're not long enough. The only trail that gives me arm pump is telonics, and that was only once on a demo bike with even crappier brakes than my avids.

My suspension is probably set up right for where/how I ride. Going to a place with long runs and bad braking bumps is a tough combo without regard to how fast or slow I am. Right now I'm just working on improving tendon strength combined with glucosamine supplements. Hope it works.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

probiscus said:


> Funny, i actually use ESI chunky's on my personal ride. Unfortunately my fork died at Snow Summit and the demo session 88 had thin, hard, rubber grips. I definitely do like the ESI's w/ ODI clamps though.
> 
> With my forks into Fox for a fix, I'm going to be more focused on rock climbing exercises like the finger-only pull up and finger tip push ups to see if that stuff helps.
> 
> ...


The 4 piston Avid's should be plenty of brake for a 185lb rider. 200mm front rotor is a MUST for any sort of aggressive riding, especially downhill. I run 200mm front and 185mm rear on both my dh bike and my trail bike.

Did you really pay a shop to install a rotor? Shame on you. You probably paid the full $60-70 for it too.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

probiscus said:


> I would, I just can't see myself going back to SS if it's going to hurt that bad. The hand pain is a total day-ruiner and occurs about half way down run 1.
> 
> Hands don't hurt on local trails, presumably b/c they're not long enough. The only trail that gives me arm pump is telonics, and that was only once on a demo bike with even crappier brakes than my avids.
> 
> My suspension is probably set up right for where/how I ride. Going to a place with long runs and bad braking bumps is a tough combo without regard to how fast or slow I am. Right now I'm just working on improving tendon strength combined with glucosamine supplements. Hope it works.


I wouldn't call SS runs long by any means. Nor that rough. Telonics is probably rougher given the much higher average speed and presence of actual rocks. With braking bumps it's more important to have a looser grip than on rocky trails. Some sections you can try just letting the bars "float" in your hands if its straight. I doubt it's your brakes, SS is pretty dang flat, not much braking to be done there. Try lower tire pressures too, that can make a big difference.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

i dont now what they write to you in this tread but this are my to cent:
Okay, adjust your fork correct, open the Lsc. take ESI grips dont compress your grips to much . Brake levers more horizontal, zee or saint brakes 203mm disc . Deity blacklabel handelbar with nice 9° backsweep so your can ride deep with wide open arms. Got first a enve bar raceface and a chromag but no confort. Bos rare air or dvo fork can help to. Cheers


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