# 2019 Fox 36 Grip2



## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

So I just got one of these a few weeks ago Factory 36 grip2 with 170mm of travel and set it up according to the manual, 75psi no volume spacers, 6 clicks LSR 5 Clicks HSR, 6 clicks LSC and 10 clicks HSC. Fork felt great out in Pisgah riding trails like Bennet Gap, Heartbreak, and Kitsuma along with some DuPont. It does feel quite a bit firmer in the parking lot than I'm used to yet at the same time really soaks stuff up and doesn't get overwhelmed when it gets rowdy like my previous fork with an Avalanche damper( that damper just couldn't keep up with constant chunder of 15 minute dh's and would feel sloppy and spikey) I will say with the factory recommended air pressure and sag I have to do some really stupid stuff to use the last half inch of travel but like I said the fork feels great as far as soaking up the rocks roots drops etc and keeping the tire glued to the ground without feeling spikey so I'm not overly concerned about that.

In the tuning guide they list 16 clicks of available HSC though my fork has 30 clicks available. So is the useable range only 16 clicks and anything beyond that from full closed does nothing? Not really sure. I think fox knocked it out of the park on this one even though it isn't the plushest feeling fork out there in the parking lot.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Parking lot tests don’t do **** for modern forks. If it feels good in the parking 9 out of 10 it will be hot garbage on the trail. 


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

As I noticed.


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## Nevada 29er (Nov 12, 2007)

Anybody with time on both the 2019 Lyric RC2 and the 36 Grip 2?


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

Hi AlienRFX - yea the manual is wrong on the clicks - fox proof read your manuals you muppets - but the fork felt great at the suggested settings. I took 10 out of 16 on HSC to actually mean 10 out of 30. 

I have both a year 19 and 18 currently and cycling the rc2 vs the grip, by hand, when servicing them there is a noticeable difference in stiction. Im not sure it makes that much difference on the trail. i think the main benefit of grip 2 is that you sit in the middle of the tuning range rather than having to run it all open like the old forks. The 36 grip 2 fork still has that firm feeling that fox have had for a while.

Im 100% sure thats down to the air side of the fork where with the current design they have struggled to make the negative air spring large enough to make it ultra supple without reducing the positive too much and creating a load of ramp up.

Rock Shoxs 2019 trick on their forks by making the shaft in the neg area hollow was a really good idea. No decrease in positive volume but an increase in negative.

Still its a phenomenal fork.. lots of traction.. and very composed.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Karve said:


> Rock Shoxs 2019 trick on their forks by making the shaft in the neg area hollow was a really good idea. No decrease in positive volume but an increase in negative.
> 
> Still its a phenomenal fork.. lots of traction.. and very composed.


The 2018 Fox 36 uses a hollow shaft that is used for extra negative air volume.


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

Rick Draper said:


> The 2018 Fox 36 uses a hollow shaft that is used for extra negative air volume.


Ah... good info.... is that the 2019 air spring upgrade? Which also reduced the knocking? Wondered what that hole under the metal top out bumper was for.


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

Definitely no knocking in my fork.

Which damper had more stiction Karve? the RC2 or the Grip2?


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## Nevada 29er (Nov 12, 2007)

More details between the Lyric and Grip2 please, lots of money riding on this decision.:eekster:


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## Nevada 29er (Nov 12, 2007)

delete


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

ive just got a set of Grip2 forks. im about 82kg and have set them up with 1 token and backed off the lsc and hsc 2 click. 76psi - rebound on the base settings and they feel great.

ive only done two rides on them but so far so good


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

AlienRFX said:


> Definitely no knocking in my fork.
> 
> Which damper had more stiction Karve? the RC2 or the Grip2?


Some early variant of the evol on the 2018 fork had a different bumper which could produce a bit of top out.. was sorted out by fox well over a year ago.

From what Rick says it may well also have also introduced the hollow shaft.

Good comparison here






the RC2 deffo had more stiction but not massively more. 20-30% less maybe. Most of the stiction comes from the air side so its all relative really.


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

Nevada 29er said:


> More details between the Lyric and Grip2 please, lots of money riding on this decision.:eekster:


MBR (print mag) did a recent test.

MBR July 2018 - MBR

Lyric for comfort, 36 for support in the steeps. They slightly favored the Lyric but again no clear winner. Pick the fork for your style.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

The 36 Grip2 is like all Fox's recent forks, it rides high in its travel and its very composed. The RC2 Lyrik definitely gives up its travel a bit easier, its a nice fork but I could not get the demo one I have to ride how I want it to ride.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Karve said:


> MBR (print mag) did a recent test.
> 
> MBR July 2018 - MBR
> 
> Lyric for comfort, 36 for support in the steeps. They slightly favored the Lyric but again no clear winner. Pick the fork for your style.


I picked the one with the best and fastest warranty back up - which is hands down Fox in the uk


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

My 36 definitely rides high, but flattens out the small stuff and gobbles up the large stuff. It's honestly the best fork I've used over 22 years of riding. I did add 1 more click of lsr the other day and it helped calm the motion of the ocean.


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

Rick Draper said:


> The 36 Grip2 is like all Fox's recent forks, it rides high in its travel and its very composed. The RC2 Lyrik definitely gives up its travel a bit easier, its a nice fork but I could not get the demo one I have to ride how I want it to ride.


Hey Rick I see you fitted a Luftkappe - same here. Did you keep pressure the same or bump it up a bit?

Im 76kg kitted and running 67psi on a 180 version. Feels good but no big hits with it yet and deffo not getting into the last 20mm of travel yet.

Had to run 61 PSI & 1 token in my 2018 to make it supple enough so seems a step forward.


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## Hazenhart (Jun 27, 2018)

Hey folks, sorry for the stupid question: 
The HS and LS adjusters seem to turn turn together (when turning the LSC the HSC turns with it, etc.). Are they meant to? 
Thanks for your time.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

When I turn the HSC the LSC turns with it. Turning the LSC doesn't make the HSC turn.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Hazenhart said:


> Hey folks, sorry for the stupid question:
> The HS and LS adjusters seem to turn turn together (when turning the LSC the HSC turns with it, etc.). Are they meant to?
> Thanks for your time.


Pretty much every shock/fork that has this adjustment does this. It's fine. It's not adjusting the LSC.


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

Weighed my options and ordered up a 36 Grip2 160mm 29er 44mm offset w/Kabolt. Will pick up a 170mm air spring when it comes in stock at CDN distro in August.


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## JCordell (Sep 25, 2017)

Anybody have settings for a 160 pound rider with the Grip2? I am only 4 rides in and have opened up the HSR and HSC a bit but need to try some other settings.. I am on the 170mm


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

so having had the forks a month and spent a week in morzine the forks are now making a horrible rattle noise when lifting the wheel and tapping on the floor. almost like it has a dead spot off the bottom

great  they are going back to Silverfish in the uk on monday


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

The only sound mine makes after a month of use and a trip to Pisgah is the squishy sound of oil flowing through the damper. Only tweaks I've made are to increase LSR a click or two as it the fork feels sooo much better than previous forks.

I'll probably be dropping the lowers soon to check oil levels and amount of grease in neg spring soon just out of curiosity.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

So took the 36’s off the bike ready to go back to Fox tomorrow. If I shake the forks I can hear something metallic rattling about in the forks so defiantly something has come apart or broken inside. Not great really given they are not a month old


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## lycra (Mar 5, 2013)

Mine built up quite a lot of air in the lowers. I was unable to get full travel despite being ~15 psi under Fox recommendation, and dialing off all HSC. Was also getting some top out noise on chattery stuff.

So I burped (a lot) of air out of the lowers with a zip tie, and she's back to being the best fork I've used to date. 

So, new fork, same old problem with accumulating air in the lowers. This was after about ~300 miles of riding.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

so just heard back from fox uk yesterday - its had a new damper fitted but they were pretty vague as to why? Its being delivered back to me today so will get it fitted and try it this weekend.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Fresh Grip 2, 170mm and 44mm offset. Hope toget on the trails asap!









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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

lycra said:


> Mine built up quite a lot of air in the lowers. I was unable to get full travel despite being ~15 psi under Fox recommendation, and dialing off all HSC. Was also getting some top out noise on chattery stuff.
> 
> So I burped (a lot) of air out of the lowers with a zip tie, and she's back to being the best fork I've used to date.
> 
> So, new fork, same old problem with accumulating air in the lowers. This was after about ~300 miles of riding.


Fox really needs to equip all their forks with pressure relief valves like some other manufacturers.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Fitted the forks back on. Zero clunk from them now and they feel very different. 

Also this new cartridge has 16 clicks of HSC as the manual says - the old one had 30. 

I did a local loop yesterday and they are night and day different.


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

So I pulled the lowers off out of curiosity today and to do a lower leg service. The oil levels were good, but there was no grease on the dust wipers and the foam rings were dry. Also the neg air chamber and air piston had an excessive amount of grease on em. So I cleaned everything up, put the right amount of grease on the air piston, greased the dust wipers, oiled the foam rings and slapped it all back together with the proper oil levels. The initial stiction to get the fork moving is gone now and is a little more supple on the small stuff, not that it was ever bad.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

So for those that seem to have extra clicks/range on their HSC and LSC, I talked to fox and they said it is something that would have to be sent in. It hasn't been a known issue but if you are affected I would recommend giving them a call in case it's larger than they think. 

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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> So for those that seem to have extra clicks/range on their HSC and LSC, I talked to fox and they said it is something that would have to be sent in. It hasn't been a known issue but if you are affected I would recommend giving them a call in case it's larger than they think.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


I was told by Fox uk that mine were the first pair they have had back. They wouldn't tell me anything other than they swapped the cartridge.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Did it feel different on the damping side or just the knock that was now gone.


dlocki said:


> I was told by Fox that mine were the first pair they have had back. They wouldn't tell me anything other than they swapped the cartridge.


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## lycra (Mar 5, 2013)

did they indicate some sort of performance difference for forks with 30 clicks instead of 16? I would assume that the difference is purely "cosmetic".



TamiJean said:


> So for those that seem to have extra clicks/range on their HSC and LSC, I talked to fox and they said it is something that would have to be sent in. It hasn't been a known issue but if you are affected I would recommend giving them a call in case it's larger than they think.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

No they definitely said the 36 grip 2 is supposed to have 16 and that this issue is pretty unknown to them. They said I could ride it and fiddle with it and see how it goes or send it to them to investigate. I'll likely ride it through the week and send it out on Friday.


lycra said:


> did they indicate some sort of performance difference for forks with 30 clicks instead of 16? I would assume that the difference is purely "cosmetic".


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> So for those that seem to have extra clicks/range on their HSC and LSC, I talked to fox and they said it is something that would have to be sent in. It hasn't been a known issue but if you are affected I would recommend giving them a call in case it's larger than they think.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


They feels very different - really supple off the bottom and pretty much like all the reviews raved about. The old cartridge was very stiff off the bottom almost like it had a ton of Lsc then ramped really hard from about 50% travel - im about 82kgs - had 76psi/25% sag and 1 token, riding a week in morzine I only got full travel once and that was a proper oh sh*t moment, I got full travel from the new cartridge on a local loop over the weekend using the same settings.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Stiff is definitely how I would describe Mine. I was out of town all weekend so I didn't get a chance to ride. Set at the recommended air and sag I'm thinking to myself there is no way I am getting full travel. I'll do a couple runs and probably send it in. Thanks for the feedback!


dlocki said:


> They feels very different - really supple off the bottom and pretty much like all the reviews raved about. The old cartridge was very stiff off the bottom almost like it had a ton of Lsc, riding a week in morzine I only got full travel once and that was a proper oh sh*t moment, I got full travel from the new cartridge on a local loop over the weekend using the same settings.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Ok I don't even know what to believe anymore. 
Vitalmtb counts
HSC-32
LSC-16
HSR-8
LSR-16

Pink bike
HSC-27
LSC-15
HSR-8
LSR-17

Fanatik bike grip2 assembly
Matches pinkbike

MTBMAG
HSC-16
LSC-12



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## millerstone (Jun 18, 2018)

TamiJean said:


> Ok I don't even know what to believe anymore.
> Vitalmtb counts
> HSC-32
> LSC-16
> ...


Mine has 30 clicks HSC, 12 clicks LSC. Feels great but now I don't know if I should send it in or not.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I have a message in to fox. I'll keep you posted.


millerstone said:


> Mine has 30 clicks HSC, 12 clicks LSC. Feels great but now I don't know if I should send it in or not.


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

Sounds like I purchased another fine piece of equipment from FOX. :lol:


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Ok so I got confirmation from fox. Early run grip2s did not have a spacer to block off a certain amount of clicks. He said the first 16 clicks from closed are still usable and the 2nd set is pretty much just all open. So tune the same way starting from closed and just know anything past 16 clicks will do nothing. 

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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Also I took this picture of the fork bottomed out with no air. For those not using all the travel this might be way. Idk if there is a little bumper that will compress the rest of the way but here's that









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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Also all the grease inside the positive air chamber. Scooped some out.









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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

The grease in the positive doesn't do much. The grease in the negative does matter as the volume is 1/10 the size.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Ugh well from the looks on the outside, I can imagine it looks just as bad. Looks like I'm pulling the lowers to find out.


alexbn921 said:


> The grease in the positive doesn't do much. The grease in the negative does matter as the volume is 1/10 the size.


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## millerstone (Jun 18, 2018)

I called Fox this morning, they said I'd need to send the fork in to get a damper swap. They wouldn't send a damper to me directly but they did send one to a buddy at my LBS. I'll report back when I swap it in. For the money this thing cost I don't want missing shims and extra clicks.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I will likely do the same at the end of the week.


millerstone said:


> I called Fox this morning, they said I'd need to send the fork in to get a damper swap. They wouldn't send a damper to me directly but they did send one to a buddy at my LBS. I'll report back when I swap it in. For the money this thing cost I don't want missing shims and extra clicks.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

TamiJean said:


> Ok so I got confirmation from fox. Early run grip2s did not have a spacer to block off a certain amount of clicks. He said the first 16 clicks from closed are still usable and the 2nd set is pretty much just all open. So tune the same way starting from closed and just know anything past 16 clicks will do nothing.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


TamiJean, thanks for posting this. Mine has 31 clicks and after some experimentation I have it set at 20 from closed. Now I feel a bit foolish about the time I spent playing around in the back 16 thinking I could feel a difference.
If it's just extra clicks why do we need new dampers?
I like mine a lot but wish it was more plush over single bumps. However the control is next level magical in rough sections. I also wonder why I need to have the rebound set so slow? Maybe with more HSC I won't need so much rebound damping. I'll try that next.
My settings
180lbs with gear
170mm travel ACS-3 Green spring, no air in bump stop but still don't use the last inch
HSC 20
LSC 8
HSR 1
LSR 5


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## 7four8 (Sep 9, 2007)

Can anyone compare the grip2 damper to avalanche. Looking to upgrade my 2017 36 damper but looks like fox still having quality control issues.


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## millerstone (Jun 18, 2018)

artnshel said:


> TamiJean, thanks for posting this. Mine has 31 clicks and after some experimentation I have it set at 20 from closed. Now I feel a bit foolish about the time I spent playing around in the back 16 thinking I could feel a difference.
> If it's just extra clicks why do we need new dampers?
> I like mine a lot but wish it was more plush over single bumps. However the control is next level magical in rough sections. I also wonder why I need to have the rebound set so slow? Maybe with more HSC I won't need so much rebound damping. I'll try that next.
> My settings
> ...


I agree it's a great feeling fork, can't imagine what it feels like with the coil.
I'm still playing around with my settings so I can't be of much help there. I'm having a hard time using all of the travel as well, although on my last ride that's probably a good thing.
As far as a new damper goes, for the price of the fork and the one year warranty I'd like everything to be correct from the get go. I don't want to run into any issues down the road caused by riding in the "dead zone" of the HSC or something like that. They are willing to replace them, might as well get one that works as they intended from the start.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Ya my LSC clicks are off too. I want it performing and acting like it's supposed to.


millerstone said:


> I agree it's a great feeling fork, can't imagine what it feels like with the coil.
> I'm still playing around with my settings so I can't be of much help there. I'm having a hard time using all of the travel as well, although on my last ride that's probably a good thing.
> As far as a new damper goes, for the price of the fork and the one year warranty I'd like everything to be correct from the get go. I don't want to run into any issues down the road caused by riding in the "dead zone" of the HSC or something like that. They are willing to replace them, might as well get one that works as they intended from the start.


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

7four8 said:


> Can anyone compare the grip2 damper to avalanche. Looking to upgrade my 2017 36 damper but looks like fox still having quality control issues.


Yep, previous fork was a 2015 36 with Avy Damper, in consistently choppy terrain the Avy damper felt sloppy and uncontrolled as well as spikey. I even spent the time to confirm that the tune was correct for my weight and riding style. The new fork with the Grip 2 damper set at factory recommended settings right out of the box on the same trails felt far more composed and much less spikey with significantly reduced arm pump. To put it simply this fork has completely changed my opinion on closed dampers vs open bath, and now I know what damper fade in an open bath cartridge feels like compared to something that doesn't aerate the oil. And yes my fork has the 30 clicks of HSC vs the 16 mentioned in the manual, still performs great!


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## 7four8 (Sep 9, 2007)

Great! It's also $300 vs $500 so kinda going back and forth on this. Anyone else have an opinion?


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I played around with the clicks to test what fox said. I tried 10 clicks from closed with the believe that the 2nd half of clicks from closed were plecebo, then I went to 10 clicks from starting halfway through the clicks and it was nice and day. 10 clicks from true closed was dang near on ridable for me. My hopes is that they just pull it out, put a replacement in and be done. Also my LSC clicks we're off too


artnshel said:


> TamiJean, thanks for posting this. Mine has 31 clicks and after some experimentation I have it set at 20 from closed. Now I feel a bit foolish about the time I spent playing around in the back 16 thinking I could feel a difference.
> If it's just extra clicks why do we need new dampers?
> I like mine a lot but wish it was more plush over single bumps. However the control is next level magical in rough sections. I also wonder why I need to have the rebound set so slow? Maybe with more HSC I won't need so much rebound damping. I'll try that next.
> My settings
> ...


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## stlburner (Dec 20, 2004)

Hmmmmm. I have a new 160 Grip2 36 on a Santa Cruz HTLT, that I've been tuning for 5 rides or so. 30 clicks of HSC available. I've dropped down to zero volume spacers, wide open HSC and LSC, and 78 PSI, I'm just under 180 with gear. That puts me at 38mm/24% sag in the attack position. Currently I'm getting 110mm/70% of the travel.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I sent mine in. Give them a call. I would bet money we will see a recall about this.


stlburner said:


> Hmmmmm. I have a new 160 Grip2 36 on a Santa Cruz HTLT, that I've been tuning for 5 rides or so. 30 clicks of HSC available. I've dropped down to zero volume spacers, wide open HSC and LSC, and 78 PSI, I'm just under 180 with gear. That puts me at 38mm/24% sag in the attack position. Currently I'm getting 110mm/70% of the travel.


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## stlburner (Dec 20, 2004)

Edited to remove unhelpful post. See following post.


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## stlburner (Dec 20, 2004)

I just spoke to the Fox Service Department and told them about my 30ish clicks of HSC adjustment.


The gentleman I spoke with asked me to also count my LSC clicks, which are also incorrect at 16. He then asked me for my contact info so that he could reach back out when they have a solution, and also stated that he has a list of people to call back similar to me. He said they don't have any of the affected forks back in house yet so they don't know what the prescribed fix is.

Initially he said that my lack of travel shouldn't be affected, but then made a statement speculating that maybe the issue could be affecting the travel later in the conversation.

He did tell me also that the extra clicks of HSC out beyond 16 out won't have any effect on the fork's performance.

It was suggested that I keep riding it, that maybe it wasn't broken in yet and that's why I'm not seeing the travel.

I found it odd that during the conversation the gentleman had to look up whether to turn it CW/CCW fully to close down the HSC and get to the place where you can start counting clicks out. Most of us know that, and I'm pretty sure that it has almost always been like that.

Fingers crossed that if there is a problem that they find and deliver a solution.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Idk. Manuel states 12 clicks for LSC(see picture). I tested the theory that the 2nd set of 16 clicks didn't work but I think I have to disagree. 10 from closed and 20 from closed feel drastically different to me


stlburner said:


> I just spoke to the Fox Service Department and told them about my 30ish clicks of HSC adjustment.
> 
> The gentleman I spoke with asked me to also count my LSC clicks, which are correct at 16. He then asked me for my contact info so that he could reach back out when they have a solution, and also stated that he has a list of people to call back similar to me. He said they don't have any of the affected forks back in house yet so they don't know what the prescribed fix is.
> 
> ...












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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Hi folks
Just got a new 36 Grip2 29 coming off a 17’ Lyrik.
The new fox seems to have a ton of stiction. There is hardly any suppleness off the top, or anywhere in the stroke at all for that matter, the amount of feedback the fork produces makes it very hard to hold lines that the lyrik blasted through smoothly. 
The only area the fork feels solid is in the steeps, which we have plenty of around here. In short the fork just feels over damped in basically every situation. I’ve tried factory settings, and dialing the compression all the way out, there wasn’t much difference. I’ve also messed with psi and volume spacers, but going much lower then the recommended settings led to bottom out pretty easily. I’m 175 and running just below 80 psi with 2 spacers I was getting just about full travel where I should have. 
Messing around with friends forks, mine seems overly harsh. I have two riding buddies who have the fit versions and that fork feels nice and supple much like the lyrik. 

Anyone else experience this issue? About ready to thrown in the towel with this thing. Riding in the NE wet today it was miserable, constant deflection had me crashing in places I never had issues with. 

Thanks


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

It seems like it should be unnecessary to do but the QC at Fox seems to be lackluster sometimes. If you are comfortable doing it, pull the lowers and check for overgreased negative airspring especially around the equalizing port. Check foam rings and seals as well. Also maybe burp the lowers.


elsinore said:


> Hi folks
> Just got a new 36 Grip2 29 coming off a 17' Lyrik.
> The new fox seems to have a ton of stiction. There is hardly any suppleness off the top, or anywhere in the stroke at all for that matter, the amount of feedback the fork produces makes it very hard to hold lines that the lyrik blasted through smoothly.
> The only area the fork feels solid is in the steeps, which we have plenty of around here. In short the fork just feels over damped in basically every situation. I've tried factory settings, and dialing the compression all the way out, there wasn't much difference. I've also messed with psi and volume spacers, but going much lower then the recommended settings led to bottom out pretty easily. I'm 175 and running just below 80 psi with 2 spacers I was getting just about full travel where I should have.
> ...


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

elsinore said:


> Hi folks
> Just got a new 36 Grip2 29 coming off a 17' Lyrik.
> The new fox seems to have a ton of stiction. There is hardly any suppleness off the top, or anywhere in the stroke at all for that matter, the amount of feedback the fork produces makes it very hard to hold lines that the lyrik blasted through smoothly.
> The only area the fork feels solid is in the steeps, which we have plenty of around here. In short the fork just feels over damped in basically every situation. I've tried factory settings, and dialing the compression all the way out, there wasn't much difference. I've also messed with psi and volume spacers, but going much lower then the recommended settings led to bottom out pretty easily. I'm 175 and running just below 80 psi with 2 spacers I was getting just about full travel where I should have.
> ...


have you done a lower leg service? IMO every single new fork made by every mfg, needs a lower leg service nearly immediately to perform properly.


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

minimusprime said:


> have you done a lower leg service? IMO every single new fork made by every mfg, needs a lower leg service nearly immediately to perform properly.


Thanks guys. Uggh. No, I was hoping to avoid pulling apart my brand new fork but that is a logical next step before giving up or sending it back. I've done plenty fork services, this thing is so dead feeling I was more wondering if it was a defect. It feels bad enough that air in the lowers or to much Grease in the neg chamber would not effect it to this degree, but I suppose that could be the case. It's almost like the bushings are too tight.

I'll pull it apart and give it one more shot.

Thanks again.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

elsinore said:


> Thanks guys. Uggh. No, I was hoping to avoid pulling apart my brand new fork but that is a logical next step before giving up or sending it back. I've done plenty fork services, this thing is so dead feeling I was more wondering if it was a defect. It feels bad enough that air in the lowers or to much Grease in the neg chamber would not effect it to this degree, but I suppose that could be the case. It's almost like the bushings are too tight.
> 
> I'll pull it apart and give it one more shot.
> 
> Thanks again.


This is exactly how mine felt - it then developed a loud rattle. I bet everyone who's got one of the first batch's forks are exactly the same. Send it back ?


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

dang. Did they give you any indication as to what is wrong? I'd pull it apart and fix it myself if its something simple. Otherwise it goes back. I' guessing you had it sent back through your shop or did you just call customer service?


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

elsinore said:


> Hi folks
> Just got a new 36 Grip2 29 coming off a 17' Lyrik.
> The new fox seems to have a ton of stiction. There is hardly any suppleness off the top, or anywhere in the stroke at all for that matter, the amount of feedback the fork produces makes it very hard to hold lines that the lyrik blasted through smoothly.
> The only area the fork feels solid is in the steeps, which we have plenty of around here. In short the fork just feels over damped in basically every situation. I've tried factory settings, and dialing the compression all the way out, there wasn't much difference. I've also messed with psi and volume spacers, but going much lower then the recommended settings led to bottom out pretty easily. I'm 175 and running just below 80 psi with 2 spacers I was getting just about full travel where I should have.
> ...


I sent mine in for warranty, similar issues mentioned in this thread. Fork tracked like complete crap and as you said hard to hold lines, had me running off the trail constantly or pinging all over. I spent 2 weeks playing with settings and air volume, regardless it just felt weird.

I threw my Pike on while the Grip2 is being warrantied which honestly feels a 100x's better, I am hoping this 36 is just defective or otherwise has me wondering why I spent close to $1K on it.

Hopefully the issues are resolved when the Grip2 gets back to me.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

elsinore said:


> dang. Did they give you any indication as to what is wrong? I'd pull it apart and fix it myself if its something simple. Otherwise it goes back. I' guessing you had it sent back through your shop or did you just call customer service?


I'm in the Uk - I just sent it back direct to Fox Uk. It was less than a month old. They wouldn't say what was wrong but they replaced the cartridge and it's night and day different now


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## Robbeh (Jan 1, 2017)

Mine feels a little weird after it's been sitting for a while, it takes a bit of force to break initial stiction but then works great. I've never experienced this before with any other fork, is that within the realms of normal?


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

What's "awhile"?


Robbeh said:


> Mine feels a little weird after it's been sitting for a while, it takes a bit of force to break initial stiction but then works great. I've never experienced this before with any other fork, is that within the realms of normal?


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Robbeh (Jan 1, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> What's "awhile"?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Certainly not mid ride, but any time I pull the bike out of storage for a ride, next day or two after a ride typically.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I've experienced that maybe for the first push but then it feels fine after. That's with any fork.


Robbeh said:


> Certainly not mid ride, but any time I pull the bike out of storage for a ride, next day or two after a ride typically.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Robbeh (Jan 1, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> I've experienced that maybe for the first push but then it feels fine after. That's with any fork.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Cool, I'll quit worrying. Previous RS forks haven't been anything as pronounced as this, and given the issues others are seeing I figured I'd throw it out there.

Thanks!


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Wouldn't be a bad idea to pull the lowers and check the foam rings and seals. As others have mentioned, QC seems to be questionable which sucks when making such a big purchase but if they are dry, that could a reason you are experiencing that.


Robbeh said:


> Cool, I'll quit worrying. Previous RS forks haven't been anything as pronounced as this, and given the issues others are seeing I figured I'd throw it out there.
> 
> Thanks!


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

ive just had the 5wt teflon data sheet from fox and the quoted cst value @40c is 17.24 

Having a quick look the nearest oil to this is motorex 4wt. 

Soon as ive got a good few more rides on this new cartridge im going to open it up


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

I have one with the extra clicks and can't access the last 27mm of stanchion. I also think it's harsher than it should be so I'm sending it in for warranty evaluation.


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Question for those with the Grip2. Anybody having second thoughts about the fork?

I was going to get one, but now I'm starting to re think it. Main concerns are qc issues and overall performance. I wonder if I should wait a while and let Fox sort everything out or go with a Lyrik RC2.

So would you purchase the Grip2 again? Or would you buy something else? Interested in your thoughts.

Thanks.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

kwapik said:


> Question for those with the Grip2. Anybody having second thoughts about the fork?
> 
> I was going to get one, but now I'm starting to re think it. Main concerns are qc issues and overall performance. I wonder if I should wait a while and let Fox sort everything out or go with a Lyrik RC2.
> 
> ...


my thoughts are - and this is based on having had since 2015, pikes to 36's to Diamonds and now on grip 36's

of the four forks above all have had to go back to be fixed under warranty.

2015 pikes creaking csu - 5 week turnaround
2016 36's - poor small bump, turns out with the seal head
2017 Dvo diamonds - constant problems - creaking csu, blown damper, air leaks, pissy bushings, the list goes on. 
2019 grip2 36 - damper issues but fixed in under a week.

my theory in going for the 36 over the lyrik was the turnaround time when they break, the 36 can go direct back to fox uk, the lyrik has to go back to sram via the dearler. ive got 4 rides on the forks with the replacement cartridge and so far so good. if you go for a 36 - make sure it has the correct amount of HSC/LSC clicks as stated in the manual - 16/12 i think off the top of my head. the first batches like I originally had seem to have the issues


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## lycra (Mar 5, 2013)

I have the grip 2 with extra HSC clicks and trouble using full travel as discussed above. I have sent it in for warranty. However, even with those issues, I feel that the fork is one of the best I've used out of Pikes, 36s from 2016 and 2018, and a Lyrik. I was really unhappy with the super harsh 2016 36, and I've been irritated at the frequency of warranty issues with Fox - pretty much every fork/shock I've had has gone in. But the performance of the Grip 2 36 is pretty damn good and I'd buy it again even knowing I'd probably have to send it for warranty.



kwapik said:


> Question for those with the Grip2. Anybody having second thoughts about the fork?
> 
> I was going to get one, but now I'm starting to re think it. Main concerns are qc issues and overall performance. I wonder if I should wait a while and let Fox sort everything out or go with a Lyrik RC2.
> 
> ...


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Well just confirmed that fox installed a new damper in my fork. Mum as to why though. I will report what the changes are when I get it back.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## rideeatrepeat (Mar 11, 2008)

I bought the Grip 2 36 Fork and had the travel changed at FOX from 170 to 150 for my bike. 
Coming from a 2016 36 150 (OEM) to the new fork is night and day better. 
I set my sag at 25% and slowed the LSR down 2 clicks and went out for my 2nd ride on it tonight. The ride quality over sharp edge rocks and roots is so improved. The new fork never deflects and feels "Factory" compared to the old one.
Small drops to flat landings felt great too. I've yet to do some bigger hits with it and curious how it performs there. My old 36 was terrible with big stuff and would blow through its travel and make a metal on metal "clank" sound. (Even with 4 orange spacers iinstalled!)
I checked my HSC and it has 26 clicks and the LSC has 13. 
I hate to send it back to FOX but if it needs the damper replaced I guess I will have to.


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

*An Update for people with the 30 click HSC.....*

I just purchased and installed a New 36 Grip 2 yesterday. I happened upon this thread while looking for some set up tips and found that a few of you were having an issue with your HSC and LSC knobs having an incorrect amount of clicks.

I said to myself...UH OH! and went and checked my damper. Low and behold I have the same issue.

So, I just got off with the phone with The Fox US Service manager and here are the details. First, they are aware of the issue. Second, their engineering department is working on a fix which I suspect will be a new damper or a part that can be retrofitted. He gave me his direct line so I can call back in 2 weeks to see where they are with the fix.

And now here is what he told me to do in the interim. Apparently there was not a hard stop engineered into the fork in the first place. Why? Beyond me.

Anyways, the damper in reality has 18 clicks of usable adjustment. You set the fork to fully open and crank 18 clicks to fully closed and then adjust back from there. Anything past 18 clicks basically does nothing. I said I was concerned about damaging the damper should I go past those 18 clicks and was told it wont be an issue.

I asked why cant I just get my damper swapped now? He said that all of the dampers can be turned past the usable range with enough force (especially by riders wearing gloves) so they want to offer an actual fix. Cool.

Honestly this sucks. Pay over a grand for a flagship fork and this happens. I know it is just a knob but at this price range this shouldn't be an issue. But they are working on it and are engineering a fix so I am at least happy about that. And I can ride my bike until the issue is fix with no effect on performance(fingers crossed).

Hope this info helps anyone who has the same Issue.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I get my fork back today. Tech on the phone said I got a damper swap but was mum as to why. Tried sending a separate email but no reply yet. Your explanation sounds way better than the one I was given. The told me to go 16 clicks from closed as my usable range. Definitely not because it felt like garbage. I think we are gonna see a voluntary recall like the x2


darkslide18 said:


> I just purchased and installed a New 36 Grip 2 yesterday. I happened upon this thread while looking for some set up tips and found that a few of you were having an issue with your HSC and LSC knobs having an incorrect amount of clicks.
> 
> I said to myself...UH OH! and went and checked my damper. Low and behold I have the same issue.
> 
> ...


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## stlburner (Dec 20, 2004)

Thanks for the update! You definitely got further on the phone than I did. Coincidentally, my fork went to Fox warranty on Friday. I wonder what they did for the folks that have already received theirs back. I wonder what they'll do to mine.

BTW, I was definitely also having trouble getting more than 130mm of 160mm of travel. No vol spacers, kept lowering the pressure, wide open high and low speed comp, etc.



darkslide18 said:


> I just purchased and installed a New 36 Grip 2 yesterday. I happened upon this thread while looking for some set up tips and found that a few of you were having an issue with your HSC and LSC knobs having an incorrect amount of clicks.
> 
> I said to myself...UH OH! and went and checked my damper. Low and behold I have the same issue.
> 
> ...


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

Just to be clear: The usable range is 18 clicks from open. Consider 18 clicks from open to be fully closed and adjust back from there. So if I had taken my fork out today to do some tuning without this info I potentially would have been making no adjustment to the fork because I would have been adjusting off of the physical hard stop at 33 clicks.


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

TamiJean said:


> I get my fork back today. Tech on the phone said I got a damper swap but was mum as to why. Tried sending a separate email but no reply yet. Your explanation sounds way better than the one I was given. The told me to go 16 clicks from closed as my usable range. Definitely not because it felt like garbage. I think we are gonna see a voluntary recall like the x2
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Yeah, I think we will see a recall too.


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

stlburner said:


> Thanks for the update! You definitely got further on the phone than I did. Coincidentally, my fork went to Fox warranty on Friday. I wonder what they did for the folks that have already received theirs back. I wonder what they'll do to mine.
> 
> BTW, I was definitely also having trouble getting more than 130mm of 160mm of travel. No vol spacers, kept lowering the pressure, wide open high and low speed comp, etc.


Ill keep you guys posted on what is happening with my fork. If I was you; if they do a recall or offer a fix I would get it done regardless of the warranty work done previously.


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## stlburner (Dec 20, 2004)

I agree, and thanks!



darkslide18 said:


> Ill keep you guys posted on what is happening with my fork. If I was you; if they do a recall or offer a fix I would get it done regardless of the warranty work done previously.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

So I just got my fork back. Eh still pretty dissapointed. HSC clicks can still be turned past 16-18 clicks but they do get noticable harder. I wouldn't call it a stop but more like increased force. . LSC seems to match with the tuning guide now. Now it does feel a lot better with a push test but for now I'm just gonna take the 18clicks advice untill and official fix is implemented. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

I sent mine in as well. 37 Clicks originally, felt like utter crap - Had the damper replaced under warranty, was told the additional clicks is an engineering defect and to send it in for a replacement damper. 

Got the "repaired" fork back with 29 clicks, I called wondering what they serviced as it was still way off from 16 clicks. 

I was then told the manual is incorrect and you should have 18 clicks of usable range and to not go past 18 clicks, there is no "stop" engineered into it. 

So pretty much had a new fork ripped apart to end up with the same defective damper, complete, waste of time. Wait for a proper recall, right now you will most likely just get the same defective damper.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

darkslide18 said:


> I just purchased and installed a New 36 Grip 2 yesterday. I happened upon this thread while looking for some set up tips and found that a few of you were having an issue with your HSC and LSC knobs having an incorrect amount of clicks.
> 
> I said to myself...UH OH! and went and checked my damper. Low and behold I have the same issue.
> 
> ...


18 clicks from Open? Further back in this thread it was 18 clicks from Closed. Which is it?


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

artnshel said:


> 18 clicks from Open? Further back in this thread it was 18 clicks from Closed. Which is it?


Once more. To clarify. Turn your HSC to the fully open position. Now turn it 18 clicks clockwise. This is fully closed and is your usable range of adjustment. Adjust as you would normally from the "fully closed" position. Please dont make me draw pictures

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

I'm considering this new fork on my next frame so tuned into the thread. 

(deleted content)

I'd like to see a review on the new Fox vs new Lyric.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I was told today as well on a follow up call with fax as my "fixed"damper had extra clicks still. He stated from closed. However in my personal tests and opinion, I think it should be from open as it seems to feel better for me and that is how I will choose to use it for now


darkslide18 said:


> Once more. To clarify. Turn your HSC to the fully open position. Now turn it 18 clicks clockwise. This is fully closed and is your usable range of adjustment. Adjust as you would normally from the "fully closed" position. Please dont make me draw pictures
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

TamiJean said:


> I was told today as well on a follow up call with fax as my "fixed"damper had extra clicks still. He stated from closed. However in my personal tests and opinion, I think it should be from open as it seems to feel better for me and that is how I will choose to use it for now
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


I spoke with the US service manager. Unless I completely miss heard him I asked him to clarify and he told me from open there are 18 clicks. 18 being the "stop". The extra clicks past 18 are on the closed end of the adjustment. I will call him again tomorrow to make double triple double sure. IF I am hearing one thing from one person and others are hearing different from others Fox needs to get their story straight. FWIW the guy I talked to said he was the one who discovered the cause of the issue.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I think at this point it's alarming we are not getting consistency. I would agree with more of what you heard from my personal tests and that's how I will run it. I'm Shure it won't be long before we here from fox worldwide about this


darkslide18 said:


> I spoke with the US service manager. Unless I completely miss heard him I asked him to clarify and he told me from open there are 18 clicks. 18 being the "stop". The extra clicks past 18 are on the closed end of the adjustment. I will call him again tomorrow to make double triple double sure. IF I am hearing one thing from one person and others are hearing different from others Fox needs to get their story straight. FWIW the guy I talked to said he was the one who discovered the cause of the issue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

There is a heap of contradictions here. Normally, with any suspension, all adjustments are made from fully closed. Think about it, closed is closed, the only real known datum, so all measurements are from there.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

The contradictions are coming from fox. And really you can just as easily say open is open. I mean if closed was really closed why are you still able to cycle the fork?


robmac48 said:


> There is a heap of contradictions here. Normally, with any suspension, all adjustments are made from fully closed. Think about it, closed is closed, the only real known datum, so all measurements are from there.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

FWIW: I was told to turn the HSC knob to full open and then turn it back 18 clicks. The rest of the clicks don't do anything.


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

robmac48 said:


> There is a heap of contradictions here. Normally, with any suspension, all adjustments are made from fully closed. Think about it, closed is closed, the only real known datum, so all measurements are from there.


Not trying to be a jerk but I dont know why this is hard to understand. You crank the adjustment to the fully open position. From there you crank the knob over 18 clicks. By doing this you have established the adjustment range. 18 clicks is "fully closed". Any turn past 18 has no effect on the damper(so Im told).Now adjust back from closed as you normally would. For example I opened the adjuster up. Turned the required 18 clicks and then adjusted back 10 clicks for a base tune.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

darkslide18 said:


> Not trying to be a jerk but I dont know why this is hard to understand. You crank the adjustment to the fully open position. From there you crank the knob over 18 clicks. By doing this you have established the adjustment range. 18 clicks is "fully closed". Any turn past 18 has no effect on the damper(so Im told).Now adjust back from closed as you normally would. For example I opened the adjuster up. Turned the required 18 clicks and then adjusted back 10 clicks for a base tune.


I have zero problem understanding what you have repeatedly said. I just think you are wrong.


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

robmac48 said:


> I have zero problem understanding what you have repeatedly said. I just think you are wrong.


Ill be finding out tomorrow.


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## Xorrox (Oct 30, 2015)

Regarding the 32 clicks of HSC, either Fox is not consistently saying the same thing to everyone or some people are not understanding correctly. In the email I got, they said:

"There were a limited number of forks that went out that are having this issue. Your fork is suppose to to only have 16 clicks of High Speed Compression adjustment. You may continue to ride your fork as is but there will be no damping change past what the first 16 clicks from *closed*." (bold added for emphasis)


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I think they are not consistently saying the same thing. I also have an issue with their advice. Assuming all dampers have 32 clicks max and that a stop was not engineered into the damper, some of now have an inconsistent amount of clicks from the other. For example mine now has like 20 and the stop at full open is well defined where as the stop at fully closed is not. It gets harder after 18 and then comes to a slow stop at 20. I am assuming for myself that the stop was placed from full open so now I have a different starting point from my closed vs others closed with 32 clicks.


Xorrox said:


> Regarding the 32 clicks of HSC, either Fox is not consistently saying the same thing to everyone or some people are not understanding correctly. In the email I got, they said:
> 
> "There were a limited number of forks that went out that are having this issue. Your fork is suppose to to only have 16 clicks of High Speed Compression adjustment. You may continue to ride your fork as is but there will be no damping change past what the first 16 clicks from *closed*." (bold added for emphasis)


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Low speed adjustment usually move a needle value to restrict the size of an orifice. You fully close it by bottoming it out. Something is seriously wrong if you can turn the adjuster after bottoming it out.
Topping it out is usually handled by coming to the end of the threading or some sort of physical stop. This can be fudged with force and that is why you should count clicks from full close.
If I were a betting man, I would say the the usable range is from all the way closed to 18 clicks out.


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

OK. Spoke with The Fox US Service Manager once more. I had him explain to me at a 2nd grade level what the procedure is for finding the usable adjustment range is for the forks with this problem. As I suspected I heard him correctly the first time. The problem with extra clicks isn't on the open end of the adjustment. The problem is on the closed end. So, to establish where your adjustment range is you need to crank the HSC adjustment CCW to the open position. Then click the adjustment over CW 18 clicks to find the closed position. And then adjust back from the "closed position" as you normally would. Anything past the closed position at 18 clicks has no effect on the damper. This makes sense because if the extra clicks are on the closed end of the adjustment; cranking it over 20-30-33 or whatever number of clicks and then going back 18 from there would have you outside of the adjustment range. And depending on the number of clicks at the closed end you have, you would be making none to very little adjustment to the fork. 

FWIW he also said that he and the engineering department are working on a fix. He said that the cause had been identified as he was the one who discovered it. 

I also brought up this thread and let him know that people seem to be getting wildly different information from FOX. He said most people you may talk to on the phone are usually sales people. I told them they need to send out a company wide memo so they can get their story straight. 

Hope this helps. You can believe me or not. I dont really care. We are all adults and you can call Fox yourself if you do not.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Like


darkslide18 said:


> OK. Spoke with The Fox US Service Manager once more. I had him explain to me at a 2nd grade level what the procedure is for finding the usable adjustment range is for the forks with this problem. As I suspected I heard him correctly the first time. The problem with extra clicks isn't on the open end of the adjustment. The problem is on the closed end. So, to establish where your adjustment range is you need to crank the HSC adjustment CCW to the open position. Then click the adjustment over CW 18 clicks to find the closed position. And then adjust back from the "closed position" as you normally would. Anything form the closed position at 18 clicks has no effect on the damper. This makes sense because if the extra clicks are on the closed end of the adjustment; cranking it over 20-30-33 or whatever number of clicks and then going back 18 from there would have you outside of the adjustment range. And depending on the number of clicks at the closed end you have, you would be making none to very little adjustment to the fork.
> 
> FWIW he also said that he and the engineering department are working on a fix. He said that the cause had been identified as he was the one who discovered it.
> 
> ...


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Xorrox (Oct 30, 2015)

It's crazy that they can't keep their story straight. Right now I'm running 18 clicks out from fully closed or 14 clicks out from fully open (32 clicks total on mine) so according to the conflicting advice here I either have my HSC completely open or nearly closed:madman:

I'm going to try comparing my current setting with it all the way (32 clicks) open and see if I can feel an obvious difference. If the closed position should be 18 clicks from open then there should be an obvious difference between the two settings.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I tried that and my conclusion is that it worked better counting from open. Under normal circumstances counting from closed is what fox usually states. For this predicament and issues, I think we have to establish the new "closed" first and that is clicks from open, then you tune under normal guidelines.


Xorrox said:


> It's crazy that they can't keep their story straight. Right now I'm running 18 clicks out from fully closed or 14 clicks out from fully open (32 clicks total on mine) so according to the conflicting advice here I either have my HSC completely open or nearly closed:madman:
> 
> I'm going to try comparing my current setting with it all the way (32 clicks) open and see if I can feel an obvious difference. If the closed position should be 18 clicks from open then there should be an obvious difference between the two settings.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

TamiJean said:


> I tried that and my conclusion is that it worked better counting from open. Under normal circumstances counting from closed is what fox usually states. For this predicament and issues, I think we have to establish the new "closed" first and that is clicks from open, then you tune under normal guidelines.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Exactly. The new closed is 18 clicks from open. I wound my adjuster fully open. Wound back 18 clicks CW to establish where closed is and then adjusted back CCW from closed 11 clicks to get a base tune I will use when I can get out tune the fork on the trail.

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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

My replacement cartridge has 16 clicks of HSC I’m calling BS on the engineering solution. The problem I think is that the first batch were missing something from the cartridge and they obviously will not say this


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

The plot thickens.


dlocki said:


> My replacement cartridge has 16 clicks of HSC I'm calling BS on the engineering solution. The problem I think is that the first batch were missing something from the cartridge and they obviously will not say this


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> The plot thickens.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


I posted 3 weeks ago that my new replacement had 16 clicks


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Still thick because my replacement has 20 still


dlocki said:


> I posted 3 weeks ago that my new replacement had 16 clicks


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> Still thick because my replacement has 20 still
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Send em back and get some lyriks 😂


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Would be lying if I said I didn't think about it


dlocki said:


> Send em back and get some lyriks


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> Would be lying if I said I didn't think about it
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Yer me to - to be honest.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I'm sure they will make it right. The fox also checks all the boxes of what I wanted too.


dlocki said:


> Yer me to - to be honest.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## darkslide18 (Dec 8, 2007)

dlocki said:


> My replacement cartridge has 16 clicks of HSC I'm calling BS on the engineering solution. The problem I think is that the first batch were missing something from the cartridge and they obviously will not say this


Agreed. But for now ill stick with what I was told would work until they get this sorted. Will call back in 2 weeks to see what the deal is going to be.

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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

Am I the only one who thinks that it completely bogus that we, the smartest, most informed bike riders around cant tell where the usable adjustment range is for ourselves? I for one am embarrassed and I've honestly had a tough time figuring out this fork. I like it a lot in repetitive hits but can't get it as plush as I want for single hits. Sometimes increasing the HSC seems to make it better, other times decreasing it. Mine is on the way back to Fox now. If had known beforehand that it's two weeks for the click fix I would have waited but I really just want to know that mine is working right. I don't really care if there are extra clicks once I know where they are for sure.


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## Xorrox (Oct 30, 2015)

I'll probably wait to get mine fixed once it's ready for service. I played around with it more this afternoon and the "8 clicks from full open base setting" (18 clicks from full open and then 10 clicks back) seemed more reasonable than what I had originally. I also just put in a Vorsprung Luftkappe the other day so that will also obviously have an effect on the feel of the fork. 

I'm hoping that with these two changes the fork will have as good or better small bump compliance than the Lyrik while still not loosing the amazing composure it has when you go all in on steep rock sections or on a rough landing off a jump. In my opinion, that is where the Lyrik can't hold a candle to the Fox 36 performance.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

So I know I have been a top complainer about the clicks and the QC issues I have been having, with that said I did manage to get out today and tuned to the premise of 18 from open and 10 back, the fork felt pretty amazing. Small bump was excellent and the midstroke support was excellent and very tunable with LSC. It still annoying especially after sending it in once already and I'll send it in again when an official fix is in place. But for now as is I am satisfied.

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## bardagadvergur (Aug 16, 2018)

Hi thanks for a great thread. I also have the Grip2 with 30 clicks of HSC. But I also feel that it's quite difficult to turn the rebound know (high speed). Anyone else have issues with this?


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Is grip2 really significantly better than fit4? Why or why not? Discuss.

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## chuckiebruster (Dec 5, 2016)

kpdemello said:


> Is grip2 really significantly better than fit4? Why or why not? Discuss.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


IMO - it is a massive improvement in small bump compliance and mid stroke support. I don't have a 2019, I dropped the cartridge in my 2016 36 (removed fit4). My hands are much happier with the new setup.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Sigh. When you say things like that, it means my wife is going to get upset at the money I obviously have to spend now...

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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

Apart from the HSC issue (which my fork has as well) do you guys run the air pressure Fox recommends? I’m running 55 psi when Fox recommends 67 psi for my weight...in any case, I have been having this issue with all the Fox stuff I’ve owned ...
Btw...the grip2 is far far better than the FIT4 from my POV


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

ban said:


> Apart from the HSC issue (which my fork has as well) do you guys run the air pressure Fox recommends? I'm running 55 psi when Fox recommends 67 psi for my weight...in any case, I have been having this issue with all the Fox stuff I've owned ...
> Btw...the grip2 is far far better than the FIT4 from my POV


 I am within a psi of their recommendations. I am at the upper end of one of their weight ranges and have it set to I psi Bellow.

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## Robbeh (Jan 1, 2017)

ban said:


> Apart from the HSC issue (which my fork has as well) do you guys run the air pressure Fox recommends? I'm running 55 psi when Fox recommends 67 psi for my weight...in any case, I have been having this issue with all the Fox stuff I've owned ...
> Btw...the grip2 is far far better than the FIT4 from my POV


I got my first aggressive ride on my new fork last night on an extremely rocky, steep and fast trail where I'd expect to use close to full travel. At 25% sag and the Fox recommended pressure (rider weight 160 geared up), I only hit 70% travel with the stock volume reducer installed. I'm going to try dropping the pressure and crank up the LSC a few clicks to compensate.


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## chuckiebruster (Dec 5, 2016)

I run a smidge less than recommended. 67 is the suggested PSI and i run with 60. I have ramp control so no worries about clanging off the crowns.


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

Robbeh said:


> I got my first aggressive ride on my new fork last night on an extremely rocky, steep and fast trail where I'd expect to use close to full travel. At 25% sag and the Fox recommended pressure (rider weight 160 geared up), I only hit 70% travel with the stock volume reducer installed. I'm going to try dropping the pressure and crank up the LSC a few clicks to compensate.


Yes this is my experience as well....in any case, the Fox air pump I'm using is quite old so maybe it's because of this as well


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

That's a great point. I use a digital guage on mine as both my air pumps are off.


ban said:


> Yes this is my experience as well....in any case, the Fox air pump I'm using is quite old so maybe it's because of this as well


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

The place where I bought my grip2 damper from has contacted Fox and received advice there is a fix in the pipeline. They also advised that the 16 clicks are to be taken from full closed and anything after the 16 clicks counter clockwise has no effect. I realize this is contrary to what Tamijean has posted but that’s the info that was given out to me.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Darkslide18 is who originally got that info from fox twice. I just agree because I have tested the other method and I just can't agree the *from closed* method.


robmac48 said:


> The place where I bought my grip2 damper from has contacted Fox and received advice there is a fix in the pipeline. They also advised that the 16 clicks are to be taken from full closed and anything after the 16 clicks counter clockwise has no effect. I realize this is contrary to what Tamijean has posted but that's the info that was given out to me.


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

chuckiebruster said:


> IMO - it is a massive improvement in small bump compliance and mid stroke support. I don't have a 2019, I dropped the cartridge in my 2016 36 (removed fit4). My hands are much happier with the new setup.


Thanks for the review. Any chance you have comparisons against a coil FIT4 2017 Fox 36? Didn't do much to the damper side, just changed to the Andreani Ohlins rebound piston.

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## craign (Feb 8, 2006)

Just got a new 2019 Grip2 Fox 36, seems like the right amount of clicks on the HSC/LSC adjusters. Guess I was lucky?


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Very


craign said:


> Just got a new 2019 Grip2 Fox 36, seems like the right amount of clicks on the HSC/LSC adjusters. Guess I was lucky?


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

Is anyone else having problems with brake diving at +6 LSC? I'm wondering if I should bump it up; the fork feels great on the trail but I really dive when braking to the point where I may have to increase the LSC. I'm hesitant because the godly Shockwhiz says I'm good.

Is my thinking sound? I guess all I can do is try...


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

craign said:


> Just got a new 2019 Grip2 Fox 36, seems like the right amount of clicks on the HSC/LSC adjusters. Guess I was lucky?


No I assume the second batch of forks to come out of the factory will be right 😂😂


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## lycra (Mar 5, 2013)

Just got my fork back from warranty for extra clicks (mine had 30). They did a lot of work according to the packing slip - including a line listing "GRIP2 - HSC has too many clicks (more than 20) - PARTS". However, the HSC still has ~20 clicks of adjustment - how curious. 

Fork feels great though - so at the very least I got new seals and oil and a freshened fork.


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## freak6767 (Aug 31, 2011)

Just received my 2019 Orbea Rallon Team, and it has the new GRIP2 36 which is great. 
160mm 29''
It also has the extra clicks like many of you here, oh well. 
Other than that, the 2019 Grip2 is amazing so far. 

One question: 
Anyone here setting the GRIP2 at 30% SAG?
The manual only mentions 15% or 20% SAG, but Orbea test pilot suggested 30% SAG and LSC/HSC/LSR/HSR opened at 66% (two third)


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## lycra (Mar 5, 2013)

It seems to be all over. If you check Pivot’s recommendations they are suggesting far lower pressures than Fox does.


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

Wacha Wacha Wacha said:


> Is anyone else having problems with brake diving at +6 LSC? I'm wondering if I should bump it up; the fork feels great on the trail but I really dive when braking to the point where I may have to increase the LSC. I'm hesitant because the godly Shockwhiz says I'm good.
> 
> Is my thinking sound? I guess all I can do is try...


No diving on my end, I am running lower then recommend PSI as well.

Pretty damn aggressive terrain and steeps, feels great ever since I got it back from warranty.

I am running the factory 6 LSC and about 60 PSI. I did have my fork sent in for the click issue, they didn't resolve that, but they did replace the damper feels much better then my original fork. I am thinking there was some other issue with early dampers, because this fork even with the extra click issue feels a world difference then the out-of-box version I had.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

60psi? Surely not 160


tw!stedAxle said:


> No diving on my end, I am running lower then recommend PSI as well.
> 
> Pretty damn aggressive terrain and steeps, feels great ever since I got it back from warranty.
> 
> I am running the factory 6 LSC and about 60 PSI. I did have my fork sent in for the click issue, they didn't resolve that, but they did replace the damper feels much better then my original fork. I am thinking there was some other issue with early dampers, because this fork even with the extra click issue feels a world difference then the out-of-box version I had.


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> 60psi? Surely not 160
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


60PSI - Correct, you caught my typo before I could correct it.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Seems like I always end up 5 psi lower and one volume reducer less than the Fox recommendations.

Darn near any fork, any year.


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

tw!stedAxle said:


> No diving on my end, I am running lower then recommend PSI as well.
> 
> Pretty damn aggressive terrain and steeps, feels great ever since I got it back from warranty.
> 
> I am running the factory 6 LSC and about 60 PSI. I did have my fork sent in for the click issue, they didn't resolve that, but they did replace the damper feels much better then my original fork. I am thinking there was some other issue with early dampers, because this fork even with the extra click issue feels a world difference then the out-of-box version I had.


Thanks - I really dive, including in the parking lot. I ride steep (-14% -16% over 6km - 8km run) with tons aggressive terrain as well. I had a nasty fall and I believe it was because of brake dive. I went over the bars hard and it's taken me off the trails for a few weeks. Flying on the trail the fork feels amazing but that brake dive... eish!

I should point out this fork flew overseas to get to me. Should if do the zip-tie trick to see if I can burp out any air?


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

Wacha Wacha Wacha said:


> Thanks - I really dive, including in the parking lot. I ride steep (-14% -16% over 6km - 8km run) with tons aggressive terrain as well. I had a nasty fall and I believe it was because of brake dive. I went over the bars hard and it's taken me off the trails for a few weeks. Flying on the trail the fork feels amazing but that brake dive... eish!
> 
> I should point out this fork flew overseas to get to me. Should if do the zip-tie trick to see if I can burp out any air?


Before warranting my Grip2 it was pretty bad and all over. I spent 2 weeks trying to dial it in to no avail. Once I got it back from warranty it felt a lot better then what I originally had, my complaint now is its super harsh.

I have a Diamond and a Pike and my Grip2 is significantly more harsh and more aggressive. My wrists are killing me by the end of a run.


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

tw!stedAxle said:


> Before warranting my Grip2 it was pretty bad and all over. I spent 2 weeks trying to dial it in to no avail. Once I got it back from warranty it felt a lot better then what I originally had, my complaint now is its super harsh.
> 
> I have a Diamond and a Pike and my Grip2 is significantly more harsh and more aggressive. My wrists are killing me by the end of a run.


Mine rides real nice and I wouldn't change anything except the diving. The 'Wiz told me to add a volume spacer but I doubt that'll help...

I have 30 clicks of HSC too...

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## Tinsley1 (Oct 5, 2011)

I have enjoyed my grip2, feels like my other RC2 36's but has better small bump absorption and better consistency on long descents. I am 175lbs, run 67PSI with 1 token, 5 LSC / 11-9 HSC / 7 HSR / 6 LSR *clicks out from full in of course......

Compression stack is like opening a door to a tank of water, as you open it up you get a bigger difference between the first 1/4 than the last 1/4, hence why the extra clicks don't matter and you should always begin tuning from full in, I find it helpful to do a quick bracketing from full in/halfway then work toward the middle. If you are not happy with compression and it is to stiff you should look to lower spring rate.



TamiJean said:


> Idk. Manuel states 12 clicks for LSC(see picture). I tested the theory that the 2nd set of 16 clicks didn't work but I think I have to disagree. 10 from closed and 20 from closed feel drastically different to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

That makes complete sense under normal circumstances. But now with these kind of fixed damper and dampers with 30 clicks lies another vague issue. My "fixed" damper still has like 21 clicks of HSC. The only well defined stopping point is fully open. When trying to find fully closed, clicks 18-21 get progressively harder to turn with really no well defined stopping point. It just gets so tight to turn it stops. So to me it seems like the tried to limit the clicks going to fully closed. So is my closed starting point different from one that have 30 clicks? It feels that way.


Tinsley1 said:


> I have enjoyed my grip2, feels like my other RC2 36's but has better small bump absorption and better consistency on long descents. I am 175lbs, run 67PSI with 1 token, 5 LSC / 11-9 HSC / 7 HSR / 6 LSR *clicks out from full in of course......
> 
> Compression stack is like opening a door to a tank of water, as you open it up you get a bigger difference between the first 1/4 than the last 1/4, hence why the extra clicks don't matter and you should always begin tuning from full in, I find it helpful to do a quick bracketing from full in/halfway then work toward the middle. If you are not happy with compression and it is to stiff you should look to lower spring rate.


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

Was the website Service Manual for the 19 Fox 36 updated? I don't recall seeing this. 

"" FOX recommends turning adjusters fully clockwise until they come to a gentle stop (approximately 2 in-lb/ 0.2 Nm torque) then turning counter-clockwise to the recommended setting. Any High-Speed Compression settings beyond 16 clicks out from fully closed do not change damping. While the HSC adjuster may have more than 16 detent clicks, only the 16 positions closest to fully closed are designed for use. Any clicks beyond 16 out from fully closed are due to the configuration of the adjuster and will not affect performance in any way. ""

Is it back to 16 or 18 clicks now?


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

So glad that FOX has taken the SRAM approach and I'm now Beta testing their new 36 GRIP2. Exciting times. 

I should see how many clicks the GRIP2 I got last week actually has.


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## KoolGrandWizardLuke (Dec 23, 2017)

PUNKY said:


> So glad that FOX has taken the SRAM approach and I'm now Beta testing their new 36 GRIP2. Exciting times.
> 
> I should see how many clicks the GRIP2 I got last week actually has.


FOX hasn't taken SRAM's approach to this. It seems that you have only just discovered one of their MANY products they have had over the years where the customer (you) are a beta tester.

I try to avoid both the modern Rock Shox and FOX.


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## darkcrow (Oct 19, 2016)

Guys. Can we confirm this. 
Which is the correct base setting for those who got extra clicks. Mine has 32 clicks. 

A-
CLOCK WISE to fully close and back out 10 clicks
Or
B- COUNTER CLOCK WISE to fully open and Clock wise back in to 18 clicks and counter clock wise back to 10 clicks?

I'm really confused.


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

They updated the manual on the site with some gibberish if you can decipher that good luck. Otherwise what the FOX rep told me is to turn it fully open until it stops (counter clockwise) and count 18 clicks back (clockwise) and then count 10 clicks (counter clockwise). 

1. Turn open (Counter Clockwise) until it stops.
2. Turn back 18 clicks (Clockwise) (this to open is your usable range)
3. Turn 10 clicks (Counter Clockwise)


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## Kimonbike (Jul 27, 2015)

AlienRFX said:


> Yep, previous fork was a 2015 36 with Avy Damper, in consistently choppy terrain the Avy damper felt sloppy and uncontrolled as well as spikey. I even spent the time to confirm that the tune was correct for my weight and riding style. The new fork with the Grip 2 damper set at factory recommended settings right out of the box on the same trails felt far more composed and much less spikey with significantly reduced arm pump. To put it simply this fork has completely changed my opinion on closed dampers vs open bath, and now I know what damper fade in an open bath cartridge feels like compared to something that doesn't aerate the oil. And yes my fork has the 30 clicks of HSC vs the 16 mentioned in the manual, still performs great!


I have an avalanche damper for my fox 34 130mm. While everything else is good, I have an issue with consecutive bumps like brake bumps only in steep sections.

I always thought it happens because i only have 130mm. I'd like to ask you several questions

1. Do you have *FvAT/HSB ?
*2. Do you feel harsh on non-steep sections?
3. Is the harshness only happens after long DH mins?

Thank you!


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

tw!stedAxle said:


> They updated the manual on the site with some gibberish if you can decipher that good luck. Otherwise what the FOX rep told me is to turn it fully open until it stops (counter clockwise) and count 18 clicks back (clockwise) and then count 10 clicks (counter clockwise).
> 
> 1. Turn open (Counter Clockwise) until it stops.
> 2. Turn back 18 clicks (Clockwise) (this to open is your usable range)
> 3. Turn 10 clicks (Counter Clockwise)


This is wrong. Read the manual again, it really isn't hard to decipher at all.

Close the HSC by turning fully clockwise. 16 clicks counter clockwise is fully open. Choose where you want in between these two options.


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> This is wrong. Read the manual again, it really isn't hard to decipher at all.
> 
> Close the HSC by turning fully clockwise. 16 clicks counter clockwise is fully open. Choose where you want in between these two options.


This makes perfect sense on HSC knobs with the functional advertised 16 clicks, how does your logic relate to HSC knobs going 32 clicks?


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

tw!stedAxle said:


> This makes perfect sense on HSC knobs with the functional advertised 16 clicks, how does your logic relate to HSC knobs going 32 clicks?


My damper has the 32/33 clicks also but there are only 16 clicks of actual adjustment as per the manual. Anything past the 16 clicks counter clockwise doesn't do anything. Only adjust the dial from fully closed clockwise to 16 clicks counter clockwise or anywhere in between.


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## darkcrow (Oct 19, 2016)

Here is the reason why some of us thinks that from fully open and close 18 click is the right way rather than from fully close what was mention in their site. 
The extra clicks is not from the open end but it's from the close end.



darkslide18 said:


> OK. Spoke with The Fox US Service Manager once more. I had him explain to me at a 2nd grade level what the procedure is for finding the usable adjustment range is for the forks with this problem. As I suspected I heard him correctly the first time. The problem with extra clicks isn't on the open end of the adjustment. The problem is on the closed end. So, to establish where your adjustment range is you need to crank the HSC adjustment CCW to the open position. Then click the adjustment over CW 18 clicks to find the closed position. And then adjust back from the "closed position" as you normally would. Anything past the closed position at 18 clicks has no effect on the damper. This makes sense because if the extra clicks are on the closed end of the adjustment; cranking it over 20-30-33 or whatever number of clicks and then going back 18 from there would have you outside of the adjustment range. And depending on the number of clicks at the closed end you have, you would be making none to very little adjustment to the fork.
> 
> FWIW he also said that he and the engineering department are working on a fix. He said that the cause had been identified as he was the one who discovered it.
> 
> ...


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Actually, adding a volume spacer will add some midstroke support and bottom out. You will ride higher in the travel. LSC will not help you on steeps, braking and hitting a bump all at the same time: only more spring support will do. You may need to reduce the air pressure a little after you add another token. Try it! You will love the extra token!



Wacha Wacha Wacha said:


> Mine rides real nice and I wouldn't change anything except the diving. The 'Wiz told me to add a volume spacer but I doubt that'll help...
> 
> I have 30 clicks of HSC too...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pachaven (Dec 1, 2005)

Are any of you guys having a problem with the fork sucking down 7mm when you remove air down to 60psi?


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Mine varies even at 85 psi. I think that's the nature of a larger neg spring. If I bounce the front end around it corrects itself.


pachaven said:


> Are any of you guys having a problem with the fork sucking down 7mm when you remove air down to 60psi?


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## Slow biker (Jul 20, 2018)

pachaven said:


> Are any of you guys having a problem with the fork sucking down 7mm when you remove air down to 60psi?


It happened to me once when I decreased the pressure on the air spring. It sucked up +/-15mm of the travel and been using it for days until I noticed that something was not right but thankfully I was able to sort it out in a few days. By the way mine is a Fox 34 talas with the FIT4.

I am only assuming that my decreasing of fork's air pressure is what caused the shortening of travel as its the common denominator from what I've read from the forum but I don't really know what the real suspect really is. I showed it to the LBS and suggested to have it serviced but I tried my luck and did some troubleshooting at home and thank goodness it worked.


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## darkcrow (Oct 19, 2016)

Any news? Will Fox be recalling for the extra clicks?


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

Yes, the avalanche damper had the Fvat/HSB. The gnarlier the terrain got the harsher and sloppier the fork got. The front end would dance around and I'd also have to crank up the rebound. On smoother trails with the random big hit here or there it felt great, but when things got chunky and fast it felt like ****. And it didn't take long for it to feel that way as less than 50 yrds of chunk would make it feel like that. But some of the trails I would ride it on were 2+ miles of non stop chunky gnar with high and low speeds and random drops thrown in. 

The grip 2 damper with the NA2 airspring is lightyears better than the avalanche cartridge and NA1 airspring I had in my other 36.


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## wordy1979 (Aug 26, 2018)

My head is buzzing after reading the thread! lol. We still dont know is it clised or open. My HSC has 32 clicks too. FFS.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

wordy1979 said:


> My head is buzzing after reading the thread! lol. We still dont know is it clised or open. My HSC has 32 clicks too. FFS.


The manual was updated and it states from closed.


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## darkcrow (Oct 19, 2016)

robmac48 said:


> The manual was updated and it states from closed.


From fox
( FOX recommends turning adjusters fully clockwise until they come to a gentle stop (approximately 2 in-lb/ 0.2 Nm torque) then turning counter-clockwise to the recommended setting. )

Mine has 32 clicks. From fully open, and close clockwise until they come to gentle stop.
I counted mine is 24 clicks.


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## millerstone (Jun 18, 2018)

I got a new damper installed with 22 clicks, down from my original 32. Can't really tell a difference in performance, the fork has always felt great. I set my fork up with 14 clicks from closed HSC, 7 clicks from closed LSC. 76psi with one spacer, might drop another in today though. I'm still playing around with it but it feels light years better than my old Pike. I'm happy with it.

FWIW I spoke with Fox a few times throughout the process, they said since it isn't a safety issue they won't have a recall. The majority of the employees I spoke with said their personal forks had extra clicks which they weren't worried about. Since my fork is running so well I figure I won't worry about it either.


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## pachaven (Dec 1, 2005)

Thanks SB


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

I’ve just had my damper apart - just wanted to have a look 👀 and change the oil. Very easy to do with some shaft clamps. Going for a ride in an hr so will report back. I filled the cartridge with motorex 4wt as that’s the closest cst values to the Teflon stuff that comes in them


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

darkcrow said:


> From fox
> ( FOX recommends turning adjusters fully clockwise until they come to a gentle stop (approximately 2 in-lb/ 0.2 Nm torque) then turning counter-clockwise to the recommended setting. )
> 
> Mine has 32 clicks. From fully open, and close clockwise until they come to gentle stop.
> I counted mine is 24 clicks.


I think I'll resurrect my post from earlier in this thread, that I ended up modifying/deleting....

I've had dampers in the past (and currently) that have more clicks than advertised. It had always been a simple matter of starting from closed, and that has always worked well. Hopefully this case with the Grip 2 is as simple as that as I'm looking to get one.


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## BigJZ74 (Jul 18, 2010)

I just picked a 2019 Factory Grip2 and my fork has 30 clicks of HSC dial movement. I tested the 18 clicks from open then back 10 method and compared it to fully out 30 clicks and it felt the same. I then closed HSC and basically jumped my full body weight onto the fork and could barely compress it.(i'm 270lbs). I then backed it out 10 ten clicks, then out 6 more to 16 clicks and felt a significant difference in the compression. I'm gonna test it at ten clicks from closed, then bracket test different settings until i get it right for both High and Low speed compression. This is all clicks from closed as manual states. It seems to work for my particular fork. This fork is definitely firmer than the 2017 Lyrik RCT3 that I have on my Evil Insurgent. The Grip2 is on my Orbea Rallon. Now I just have to find out if i can extend it to 170mm.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

BigJZ74 said:


> I just picked a 2019 Factory Grip2 and my fork has 30 clicks of HSC dial movement. I tested the 18 clicks from open then back 10 method and compared it to fully out 30 clicks and it felt the same. I then closed HSC and basically jumped my full body weight onto the fork and could barely compress it.(i'm 270lbs). I then backed it out 10 ten clicks, then out 6 more to 16 clicks and felt a significant difference in the compression. I'm gonna test it at ten clicks from closed, then bracket test different settings until i get it right for both High and Low speed compression. This is all clicks from closed as manual states. It seems to work for my particular fork. This fork is definitely firmer than the 2017 Lyrik RCT3 that I have on my Evil Insurgent. The Grip2 is on my Orbea Rallon. Now I just have to find out if i can extend it to 170mm.


I fitted the Grip2 damper to my 160mm forks on my Rallon and the damper was 180mm long so I don't think there would be any reason why it couldn't go out to 170. I've got the coil kit from Push fitted too so my settings won't be of much use to you.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Hi guys, just to jump in here. I have this fork and did a DIY travel reduction down from 160mm to 140mm to fit my bike. I got some small amount of suction where it would suck the fork down a bit and I was only getting like 90mm of travel used. It was harsh too despite the LSC/HSC all being wide open. So my local bike shop guy looked at it and said ya, you've got suck down and there is air in the wrong spot.

So I've been in contact with Ed at Fox service and he is just awesome to work with. Answered a million questions and then told me to just send in my fork and warranty it. Said it could be an air bubble or a bad seal etc. Bike wasn't jumping well either on small stuff. Not poppy. Worried me.

Turn around time was 6 days total from me shipping to getting it back. They then called me and said they worked on it and tested it even for an extra day and said it was great now. So its back on my bike and the difference is night and day on my hands/arms. Its just not harsh anymore. Its not jumping and popping normal now. My damper has like 21 HSC clicks and 15 LSC clicks. 

I'm still, like everyone, super confused as to how to set the HSC. I set it like it says in the manual (close it clockwise and then do 10 clicks out). I did a ride that had a decent amount of chunk and I wasn't using all the travel. I'm 195lbs with about 89psi running 20% +- (30mm) sag. I'm thinking of dropping PSI a bit and messing with the HSC a bit too. We'll see. I'm gonna ping Ed to see if I can figure out EXACTLY what the right procedure is to set the HSC. FWIW he did say that when setting sag, all compression should be wide open.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

So I just went out to the garage and messed with air pressure etc. I dropped it to 30psi, cycled full travel and then tried to pull apart the fork. It sucked in some and I couldnt pull it all the way apart. So I added some more air and cycled it some more. Up to 45psi and still had a bit of suck down. I could get full travel by leaning over the bars and jumping down on to it (I wasn't going to bottom it out hard as it was compressing and barely getting to the bottom). So I added more air in, up to 60psi and no suck down. I rode it a bit and despite my best effort on the bike and standing over the bars and jumping down on it, I couldn't only get 135mm of 150mm of travel. I know their is some extra santion beyond 150mm that is room for hardware. I'm measuring everything.

When I bump it up to 80psi (recommended is 80 to 89) I can straddle the bike nearest the bars and try to jump and come down on it as hard as possible. I can only get about 115mm of travel.

Is this normal? I'm guessing some of it is but some of it isn't. Perhaps if I was riding ultra hard and hammering it maybe I could get deeper into the travel? (I don't ride that hard).

EDIT: When I look at Pivots suspension guide, they indicate that for a rider 190-200lbs, that I should be at 63 PSI instead of 80-89. At 63psi, my sag is going to be like 30% I'm guessing. I'm guessing I'd def get full travel usage or pretty close to it. Maybe I just run that and then dial up the LSC a bit. All of this is screwy...but maybe the PSI listings are the root cause.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

svinyard said:


> So I've been in contact with Ed at Fox service and he is just awesome to work with.


This guy rocks the Casbah!

With all due credit to The Clash, of course.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I spoke to Pivot and they said that the Fox settings are for pretty aggressive riding and that they have found more typical, better results with 25 to 30% sag, hence the much lower pressures. Now their recommendation for setting the lsc/hsc isn't going to work for nearly everyone as the damper has those extra clicks and they start from the fully open position...which is ambiguous.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Got to chat with [email protected] (the man!) some more, told him about the Pivot stuff and my issues with setup. Of course he was quick and super helpful. Just so you guys aren't bugging him as much as me, here is his responses in general:

1- Sag - he thinks 25% to 28% is where we should be for an Enduro fork like this. That would comply with Pivots setup and also allow us to tap into more travel.

2- HSC setup - (I confirmed this twice). He said to start from the OPEN position (fully counter clockwise-CCW) and then to try 9 clicks Clockwise to start and mess with it from there. Similar with LSC tho I didn't bug him further about details. And yes this is counter to Fox's documentation BUT its inline with Pivots recommendation which is to do the following: 

Fox Float 36 Grip2: The Grip2 damper has dials for both low speed and high speed compression damping. The compression damping is controlled by two dials on the top of the right fork leg; the blue outer dial adjusts high speed compression damping and the black inner dial adjusts the low speed compression damping. We set compression from the most open or fastest position, so start by turning the both the blue and black compression dials counterclockwise all the way out. Turn blue dial clockwise in 4 clicks in and turn the black dial 5 clicks in. (BLUE is HSC dial (big one)...Black is little LSC dial).


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## stlburner (Dec 20, 2004)

Warranty Fork Update:

I received my fork back from Fox warranty a couple of weeks agon but am just now getting the chance to dig in to it.

Clicks: There are now 16 HSC clicks, but there isn't a hard stop going CW, I can get 17 or 18 if I turn harder, but it definitely turns harder for those "extra" two. I have 15 clicks of LSC.

Stanchions/Travel: This is a 160, and when I release all of the pressure in the fork to verify travel it stops with about 10mm of stanchion showing. 170 show when it's fully extended, which seems correct from a total travel perspective. I'm curious if that's normal, as I'm slightly overforked on my bike (2018 Santa Cruz HTLT) and would like to keep the head angle as close to stock as possible. I wish that there were only a couple "extra" millimeters of extra stanchion showing. 

Performance: The fork feels exactly the same honestly, which is neither good nor bad. I tried it at 73 PSI no volume spacers, and started trying to dial in both compression settings. I ended up wide open on both. Used 107mm of travel on a moderate (for me) ride. I will be dropping pressure a bit to see how that feels. I weigh 172 before gear.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

stlburner said:


> Warranty Fork Update:
> 
> I received my fork back from Fox warranty a couple of weeks agon but am just now getting the chance to dig in to it.
> 
> ...


You are way to high in pressure for being 172lbs. I'm guessing you are only around 18-20% sag? Drop down to 28% and turn the damping on. If it's too mushy on top, dial up the lsc abit. I'm 195 and running 63psi. My buddy is doing the same with his Fit4 following Pivots recommendations. It works nicely.


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## stlburner (Dec 20, 2004)

Thanks. I'll be dropping pressure today. Are you guys running volume spacers?



svinyard said:


> You are way to high in pressure for being 172lbs. I'm guessing you are only around 18-20% sag? Drop down to 28% and turn the damping on. If it's too mushy on top, dial up the lsc abit. I'm 195 and running 63psi. My buddy is doing the same with his Fit4 following Pivots recommendations. It works nicely.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I just have the stock single spacer. Let me know how it goes.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

svinyard said:


> You are way to high in pressure for being 172lbs. I'm guessing you are only around 18-20% sag? Drop down to 28% and turn the damping on. If it's too mushy on top, dial up the lsc abit. I'm 195 and running 63psi. My buddy is doing the same with his Fit4 following Pivots recommendations. It works nicely.


Fox recommends 15-20% sag which is 24-32mm for a 160mm fork. I'm running 88psi and that gets approx 28mm sag which feels pretty good to me with one volume spacer. All damping is per Fox recommendations. I'm only 5lbs heavier than you so your pressure seems low. Does it feel super soft?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> Fox recommends 15-20% sag which is 24-32mm for a 160mm fork. I'm running 88psi and that gets approx 28mm sag which feels pretty good to me with one volume spacer. All damping is per Fox recommendations. I'm only 5lbs heavier than you so your pressure seems low. Does it feel super soft?


"Fox recommends" is a relative statement at the moment as it depends on if you are looking at Fox documentation or talking to their techs. The tech I spoke to said 25 to 28% sag is where you want to be. The fork wasn't bad at 20% sag but it wasn't as plush deeper into the travel and I'm not going lightspeed on gnar all day to judge but 20% sag had me only using about 115 to 120mm of travel. So what I've done is follow the Fox techs advice (listed above) which is very very close to Pivots as well. When I spoke to Pivot directly, they said that Fox's pressure was for a very aggressive rider and that they have their own recommendation for the majority of more normal riders (me). It feels buttery smooth and I've dialed up the LSC so that it isn't a marshmallow up top. The nice thing is that on big stuff, its eating it up with less feedback to me...and that is what I was searching for. I'm not using 100% travel but more like 80% now which is what I was shooting for. I'll continue to mess with it. I'm at 150mm total fyi with 1 spacer. Considering dropping to zero spacers.

In addition, my buddies 36 fit4 fork also had 81psi and he wasn't using all his travel either despite being a much better rider than me. We dropped his to 63psi (pivot bike) and turned up with lsc and it was also much nicer.

I think we just need to do what Pivot recommends at this point. It seems more "real world".

Id like to see Fox fix my damper tho (the clicks at least) and update their documentation too. We'll see. Still disappointing to see nearly every review rider of it never mention any of this and yet it was Def an issue.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

And as a counter point to above experience, on my 2018 36 RC2, I am a slightly above foxes recommended air pressure and also running significantly faster rebound than they recommend so as always ymmv. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

svinyard said:


> "Fox recommends" is a relative statement at the moment as it depends on if you are looking at Fox documentation or talking to their techs. The tech I spoke to said 25 to 28% sag is where you want to be. The fork wasn't bad at 20% sag but it wasn't as plush deeper into the travel and I'm not going lightspeed on gnar all day to judge but 20% sag had me only using about 115 to 120mm of travel. So what I've done is follow the Fox techs advice (listed above) which is very very close to Pivots as well. When I spoke to Pivot directly, they said that Fox's pressure was for a very aggressive rider and that they have their own recommendation for the majority of more normal riders (me). It feels buttery smooth and I've dialed up the LSC so that it isn't a marshmallow up top. The nice thing is that on big stuff, its eating it up with less feedback to me...and that is what I was searching for. I'm not using 100% travel but more like 80% now which is what I was shooting for. I'll continue to mess with it. I'm at 150mm total fyi with 1 spacer. Considering dropping to zero spacers.
> 
> In addition, my buddies 36 fit4 fork also had 81psi and he wasn't using all his travel either despite being a much better rider than me. We dropped his to 63psi (pivot bike) and turned up with lsc and it was also much nicer.
> 
> ...


I just had a look at what Pivot recommends and the settings they recommend for the 36 Grip 2 are wildly different to what Fox thinks. According to them with the pressure I'm using I should be 250+lbs lol

Also Pivot recommend the following......

Fox Float 36 Grip2: The Grip2 damper has both low-speed and high-speed rebound damping as illustrated in the diagram
below. The table provides the recommended number of clicks counterclockwise from the fully open position for each of
the red rebound knobs.
RIDER WEIGHT (LBS) GRIP 2 DAMPER
LSR HSR
120-130 6 0
130-140 7 1
140-150 8 2
150-160 8 2
160-170 9 3
170-180 9 3
180-190 10 4
190-200 11 5
200-210 11 5
210-220 12 6
220-230 13 7
230-240 13 7
240-250 14 8

Can someone tell me how to open the valves completely and then open then some more to get to their settings? :skep::madman:

Seems like the person writing Pivots suspension recommendations is a little confused. Maybe they sub contact to Fox too....

svinyard, I'm not having a chop at you, I just find it funny.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I hear you man, its confusing BUT....remember Fox tech also told me to basically do what Pivot said as well. He start to start your clicks from the OPEN (CCW) side and then add compression from there...around 8 clicks of HSC to start. That is fairly close to Pivot in that he also said 25 to 28% said is his recommendation. All of that is the oppositive of Fox's documentation BUT hearing it from Fox directly (twice) and also hearing it from Pivot (they did their own testing etc) is encouraging. I also spoke with WorldwideCyclery today and they told me to setup the fork using the same starting point as Pivot/Fox tech (Start open). They were aware of the confusion.

So I just rode mine for 10 miles, all downhill for the most part. Some of it super steep and gnarly (for me) where i had to walk parts etc and hit my ass on the back tire on one of the enduro stages. So here is what I found.

I'm running 63psi (Pivots setup) with about 5 clicks of HSC (go all the way open CCW and then turn it CW 5 times). Similar with LSC but like 7 clicks I think. It was excellent. I loved it. It was nice off the top but definitely didn't dive on the steep hits at all (Fox is so good at this). The nice thing is that you have some wiggle room on the compression still too if you need more or less.

FWIW I also setup my buddies Fit4 with the same thing (and a bit extra LSC) and he loved it too (is a much better rider than me).

We both used about 80% travel (band is below Kashima logo a bit).

So, if you are running higher PSI (and not an uber rider) and also running your HSC wide open...I'd def try moving to a higher sag% and actually using the HSC damper. Its great and worth the experiment in my opinion.


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## ACC (Sep 1, 2008)

These dueling statements on how to set compression are insane. Either a bunch of people are running their forks wide open with no compression and claiming to be running specific compression settings, or a bunch of people are running their forks fully closed with the firmest compression setting and claiming the same.

To me, there is a discernible difference in compression (at least LSC) when making adjustments from fully closed. If that's the case, then the clicks past the factory setting number are just wide open. It's hard to believe that Fox would put out a tuning statement for the fork on their website and get this wrong.

In any case, I just want some clarity on the tuning settings and whether there is a defect with the damper affecting some forks.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Measuring sag by seated and or attack position will vary some depending on the geometry and and cockpit set up. A taller more upright set up will put less weight on the front vs a set up that is more forward and low. There are too many factors to consider when setting up a fork that the book is just what it is, recommendations. Did some research and Sam hill runs 90+psi in his lyrik. That is 210lb+ territory for psi recommendations and he is 170ish pounds. No pro is running book settings either. They are meant for you to start somewhere and then shape accordingly.


robmac48 said:


> Fox recommends 15-20% sag which is 24-32mm for a 160mm fork. I'm running 88psi and that gets approx 28mm sag which feels pretty good to me with one volume spacer. All damping is per Fox recommendations. I'm only 5lbs heavier than you so your pressure seems low. Does it feel super soft?


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Jesse Hill (Dec 29, 2006)

Well while I didn’t but my fork retail I kind of glad it came with a Lyrik. Seems they are pretty close in comparison and really just splitting hairs between the two at least the Lyrik is very accurate in its settings with little to no confusion. Looking at fox’s latest documentation it really doesn’t sound like they have some recall/fix in mind for 2019 users and even going as far to give a torque spec for fully closed (because we all have calibrated torque wrenches built into our forearms while using gloves). This just seems stupid and unacceptable for a 1k+ fork that’s only riding on its name, seriously if this was a new comer it would be getting slammed and not the free pass in all reviews because it’s fox. The 2020 version may be tempting but 2019 is a pass.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

svinyard said:


> I hear you man, its confusing BUT....remember Fox tech also told me to basically do what Pivot said as well. He start to start your clicks from the OPEN (CCW) side and then add compression from there...around 8 clicks of HSC to start. That is fairly close to Pivot in that he also said 25 to 28% said is his recommendation. All of that is the oppositive of Fox's documentation BUT hearing it from Fox directly (twice) and also hearing it from Pivot (they did their own testing etc) is encouraging. I also spoke with WorldwideCyclery today and they told me to setup the fork using the same starting point as Pivot/Fox tech (Start open). They were aware of the confusion.
> 
> So I just rode mine for 10 miles, all downhill for the most part. Some of it super steep and gnarly (for me) where i had to walk parts etc and hit my ass on the back tire on one of the enduro stages. So here is what I found.
> 
> ...


Got out for a ride today and tried the different softer setting and it was actually ok. I ran 70psi, HSC 8, LSC 6, LSR 11, HSR 5, 1 token (all from fully closed as per Fox directions and every other suspension tuner in the world, sorry I can't get my head around the other method of fully open and adjust from there, it doesn't make sense) and I'm about 198lbs.
Fork is definitely more active and using up its travel easier so it's quite supple. I used about 90% of the travel today which is a little more than I normally would on these trails but didn't bottom out even over the jumps. I think I prefer a little more pressure which keeps it riding higher in its stroke keeping the turn in more stable but it certainly wasn't as bad as I was expecting. I think that Grip2 damper is doing its job well controlling the fluid so the sweet spot for pressure could be quite wide.

I'm going back to the ASC-3 coil kit in a week but the grip 2 air fork is definitely a good one!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I really like the fork a lot but I'd definitely like to see them fix the issue. Part of a well engineered/designed product is the "usability" of it. In this case it's flawed and a bit frustrating for a Gucci fork.

Is there a way to test the damper to figure out truly where it starts and stops? Any creative ideas?


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

svinyard said:


> I really like the fork a lot but I'd definitely like to see them fix the issue. Part of a well engineered/designed product is the "usability" of it. In this case it's flawed and a bit frustrating for a Gucci fork.
> 
> Is there a way to test the damper to figure out truly where it starts and stops? Any creative ideas?


As a starting point and messing with this thing for 2 months - I put LSC to fully closed and HSC to full open. I then turn HSC clockwise until the fork won't compress anymore, interestingly its right around 28 HSC clicks to where the forks basically locked out, so I am thinking fox's documentation may actually be correct and its from closed.

I then dial it in from there, 10 clicks HSC and 6 clicks LSC. Fork finally feels great since going this route, I haven't really messed with HSC since.


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## BigJZ74 (Jul 18, 2010)

The only reason this is so confusing is the "extra clicks" of HSC. Rock Shox works from full open as well....starting from fully counter clockwise. Unfortunately going that route on the Grip2 with extra click means going from fully clockwise closed, Then going 18 clicks out and considering that zero....Pivots 8 clicks in is the same as Fox's 10 clicks out base setting. I am coming from a Rockshox Lyrik RCT3 set up in full open with LSC fully counter clockwise. Rebound fully clockwise....(I'm a big guy so my psi is pretty high. To match the GRIP2 to the open mode of the Lyrik I am running HSC 18 clicks from closed (per Fox manual) or 0 clicks from Open ( per Pivot starting point). LSC is full counter clockwise on both forks. Rebound is fully clockwise. Fork finally feels good and hopefully on my next big descent I won't get kicked off line and shred 8 inches of skin off my shin again like I did this past week. I probably just confused some people but I finally understand it so that works for me I guess.. Too add a little bit more, depending which upper you have, (my 160 Grip2 has a 170mm chassis). Full travel for me is 10 from the top of the stanchion. On my 230x60mm Factory DPX2, the stroke is 65mm but usable travel is only 60mm. Bottom out on the rear is 5mm from the end of the shaft....Good luck tuning! I did find this SRAM document I nice tech guide to understand how HSC and LSC work with fork and bar movement on the trail. https://www.sram.com/sites/default/...on_setup_and_tuning_guide_english_rev_a_2.pdf


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## b00001 (Dec 28, 2005)

I spoke with a Tech Rep from Fox yesterday, HSC is to be set from FULL OPEN position.

I initially had set up my F36 by the new documentation and on a gnarly rocky DH only getting a little more than 1/2 travel. NOPE! Absolutely wrong. 

I then set up HSC from FULL OPEN, then go in 18 clicks, then back out 10 as baseline. Night and day difference. I will be using the Pivot guide next set up.

Very disappointed a company like Fox would not address this issue on their flagship fork.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

b00001 said:


> I spoke with a Tech Rep from Fox yesterday, HSC is to be set from FULL OPEN position.
> 
> I initially had set up my F36 by the new documentation and on a gnarly rocky DH only getting a little more than 1/2 travel. NOPE! Absolutely wrong.
> 
> ...


Yeah or at the very least do their own testing and fix the dang documentation!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

b00001 said:


> I spoke with a Tech Rep from Fox yesterday, HSC is to be set from FULL OPEN position.
> 
> I initially had set up my F36 by the new documentation and on a gnarly rocky DH only getting a little more than 1/2 travel. NOPE! Absolutely wrong.
> 
> ...


This is good info and similar to what I ran into. The question is, is it too much psi, the wrong damper clicks or both? Hard to isolate the two.

Part of me wants to open the damper up, dangle a weight under my bars and do some drop testing on it in garage with fixed position while measuring the travel used. Then add a couple of damper clicks and see what happens. Need to confirm where exactly the damper starts and stops (id like to know for sure at least)


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## b00001 (Dec 28, 2005)

FWIW---I just finished a good mixed ride. 3500' climbing and tons of descending. Some rocky ledge, some smooth buff single track. I would suggest starting with the Pivot Grip2 settings as a baseline. Throw the fox manual in the fire pit and burn it!!!!


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## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

Anyone contacted Fox regarding HSC #clicks and where does the adjustment range start from asked why is there 14 clicks extra and why dont they just update the webiste to where to start adjusting HSC (from fully cw or ccw)? It seems like it's 50/50 here based what I am reading here...from fully ccw or fully ccw. I got a nw Fox 36 Grip2 coming my way and I couldnt be more confused. Good heavens.


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## Robbeh (Jan 1, 2017)

Does anyone have a link for the Pivot setup guide? The only link I can find is dead:

http://www.pivotcycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Pivot-Suspension-Setup-2018.07.18.pdf


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## newman17 (Jul 30, 2013)

Link to Pivot's setup guide: http://www.pivotcycles.com/file/download/3581


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## ACC (Sep 1, 2008)

Just looked at the pivot guide posted above. It does not support setting the compression adjustments from "open" end of the 30 clicks. It just says that pivot likes to count from the open side of the compression range rather than the closed side. So, taking Fox's website and formal statements in mind, the Pivot guideline would just provide recommended settings based from 18 clicks out for HSC, etc. Not from 30, where clicks 19-30 do nothing since the compression setting is already fully open.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I don't know how you come to that conclusion. They say they like to set from all the way open and turning the dials "all" the way out CCW. There have been several techs quoted saying the same thing. The only thing that contradicts is the revised fox Manual that was already wrong the first time.


ACC said:


> Just looked at the pivot guide posted above. It does not support setting the compression adjustments from "open" end of the 30 clicks. It just says that pivot likes to count from the open side of the compression range rather than the closed side. So, taking Fox's website and formal statements in mind, the Pivot guideline would just provide recommended settings based from 18 clicks out for HSC, etc. Not from 30, where clicks 19-30 do nothing since the compression setting is already fully open.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## ACC (Sep 1, 2008)

TamiJean said:


> I don't know how you come to that conclusion. They say they like to set from all the way open and turning the dials "all" the way out CCW. There have been several techs quoted saying the same thing. The only thing that contradicts is the revised fox Manual that was already wrong the first time.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Because the Pivot guide doesn't address the extra clicks issue. Just like most of the initial reviews of the fork. The most plausible inference is that they are just talking about counting clicks from open, not that they are instructing users who have forks with 12+ extra clicks to adjust from the end of that defective range.

I'd like to have a definitive answer from Fox but there is just cross-speak going on. When I called and talked to their service center, they told me to count from fully closed. Some folks in this thread have heard the opposite. However, when I adjust my fork, I can notice a discernible difference to the compression settings when counting from closed. That leads me to believe that what Fox told me was correct, and the effective adjustment range starts from closed. I'm no suspension expert, but it also makes sense to me that you would have a hard stop when you were closing down valving to provide more compression.

How do we get the answer formally and definitively from Fox?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

You can just call Pivot and talk to them dude. It's easy. They will give you the lowdown. That's what I did. Cool people


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## b00001 (Dec 28, 2005)

TamiJean said:


> I don't know how you come to that conclusion. They say they like to set from all the way open and turning the dials "all" the way out CCW. There have been several techs quoted saying the same thing. The only thing that contradicts is the revised fox Manual that was already wrong the first time.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Dont waste your time, the guy obviously does not get it. Let him figure it out on his own.


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## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

It appears that my new Fox 36 Grip2, which also has 30-32 clicks of HSC, I just installed the 16 clicks of actual adjustment starts from fully closed CW position. I ridden twice on it and have been tinkering. I can "feel" the difference when I push down the handlebar really fast while riding two clicks out at a time from fully CW postion but not at all from fully CCW position until 10-14 clicks in then I start to notice mild difference. So it appears that Fox website info is correct at least on my fork.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Ive just fitted a vorspung luftkappe on mine to try and get them better on the small stuff.

last chance before they are going on ebay and im getting some Lyriks


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## jakster (Feb 5, 2012)

dlocki said:


> Ive just fitted a vorspung luftkappe on mine to try and get them better on the small stuff.
> 
> last chance before they are going on ebay and im getting some Lyriks


Please let us know how does it feel with the Luftkappe!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

dlocki said:


> Ive just fitted a vorspung luftkappe on mine to try and get them better on the small stuff.
> 
> last chance before they are going on ebay and im getting some Lyriks


Small bumps aren't good?? Man that is the thing I've enjoyed the most about the fork. What is your weight and psi? I'd call Fox before anything else.

Fwiw everyone, I had a long conversation with Fox the other day about working out the little bit of suck-down in my fork. One of the things that came out of it, was that removing the stock spacer is a good thing to do. The guy (who was awesome and has 30yrs of experience in bike industry) said that they did about 1500 different suspension setups for people riding at Interbike with these forks. He said a large majority needed the spacer removed for sure. This came out as I told him that man, it was super hard even come close to using that last inch or more of travel (which is a lot at 25mm+). That was his response and he was really confident in it, considering the amount of experience he'd recent just gone through.

This makes a lot of sense for me and was a 10min fix. Really like the adjustment. I added in a bit more psi, tho I've since backed off from that too. Definitely am not missing the spacer. He said that you should want the travel band maxing out on a good ride near the top of the Kashima logo (their is more travel there after that and then there is a hardware bottom out).

I did a 10m downhill run with some climbs etc. Loving it for sure but still dialing it in. I did not lack mid-stroke support at all and if I needed more, I could just add some HSC clicks and be done.

On a side note, I'd still follow Ed's advice and Pivots about starting from open. I mean after 1500 setups he prob has a decent feel for it. I'm gonna ping him again on it today to see if anything changes. I can say certainly for me, that after 18 or 20 clicks from open, the dial gets hard to turn thus indicating I've hit the end of adjustments. The subsequent 10 clicks are all closed.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Just got clarification again from Ed that they recommend (only for Grip2) people start setting the damper from the OPEN side. 9 Clicks of HSC/6 LSC are a fair starting point/baseline along with 25-28% sag. YMMV


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

No I though the small bump was rubbish, this was my initial complaint when I sent them back first of all. They then came back with a new cartridge that had the correct number of clicks but the small bump ride was still not up to scratch, they were loads better than when I first got them but still not great. Hence buying the vorsprung air piston. 

I’m 83kg and run 25% sag at 70psi no spacers

Lsc 8
Hsc 12
Lsr 7
Hsr 6

All from full clockwise

I’ve also dumped the Teflon oil for motorex 2.5wt and fitted green skf seal

These are now night and day better and staying off eBay for the foreseeable


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## rock-rod (Sep 3, 2012)

I just jumped on the wagon and ordered a 2019 Grip2 fork for my 2017 Banshee Rune. I also ordered the ACS3 conversion and will install it before the fork goes on the bike. Can't wait!


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## Robbeh (Jan 1, 2017)

Went with the Pivot suggested settings last night, dropped the pressure down from 55psi to 46psi and increased LSC/HSC a few clicks as well as slowing down LSR one click. Rider weight 160. The fork felt much more composed and soaked up the hits better. I used approx 80% of travel on a steep, fast flow trail with several chunky rock gardens/ledges. I think that's probably about right. So far so good with the Pivot recommendations!


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## Xorrox (Oct 30, 2015)

freak6767 said:


> Just received my 2019 Orbea Rallon Team, and it has the new GRIP2 36 which is great.
> 160mm 29''
> It also has the extra clicks like many of you here, oh well.
> Other than that, the 2019 Grip2 is amazing so far.
> ...


I'm beginning to conclude that this fork does best with at least 25% sag. Haven't tried 30% yet but will once I get the 170mm air shaft to replace my 160mm.


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## Xorrox (Oct 30, 2015)

After doing a bunch of experimenting with my Grip 2 fork I have come to the following conclusions based on how I like my forks to feel:

1) If you really want to know what the LSC and HSC setting on your fork are doing, SLOWLY (so it doesn't get stuck down) let all the air out of your fork and then remove the valve stem. You can then get a pretty good idea of how the LSC and HSC settings work and interact by playing with them while manually compressing your fork. On my fork this re-enforced the advice I got from Fox regarding the 32 clicks of HSC my fork has: count clicks from gently closed (as per the latest manual revision). HSC clicks beyond 16 out from closed do not do much on my fork.

2) Don't believe Fox's rebound settings. I had my daughter do a slo-mo video of me riding some stairs with Fox's recommended rebound settings and the fork was definitely packing down. I opened the LSR nearly wide open (3 clicks short I believe) and the HSR 1-2 clicks more open than Fox's recommendations and it now feels right and looks right in slow motion. (Keep in mind that rebound settings are weight / pressure and number of spacers dependant so everyone's will be different).

3) If your fork is feeling harsh, don't first open up your HSC /LSC compression more (like I did), lower your psi / increase your sag. I had both LSC and HSC opened all the way, installed a Luftkappe, removed the stock spacer and was still getting more arm pump than my old DPA Lyrik. However, I was only running around 18% sag. I dropped this down to 25% sag, reset the compression where Fox recommends and all of a sudden I was using full travel and feeling plush for the very first time. I did end up adding the stock spacer (which is like 2 spacers if you don't have Luftkappe) back in to prevent bottoming out on slower trails and it feels pretty darn good now. I have ordered a 170mm airshaft which I'm going to try running at around 28% sag to see how that compares to my 160mm at 25%. I'm hoping this will get me exactly where I want to be, albeit with a little more standing pedal bob than I had to start with.


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## Sebov (Oct 3, 2016)

svinyard said:


> Got to chat with [email protected] (the man!) some more, told him about the Pivot stuff and my issues with setup. Of course he was quick and super helpful. Just so you guys aren't bugging him as much as me, here is his responses in general:
> 
> 1- Sag - he thinks 25% to 28% is where we should be for an Enduro fork like this. That would comply with Pivots setup and also allow us to tap into more travel.
> 
> ...


Didn't really want to believe it but I tried the „clicks from full OPEN method" for my 30 clicks hsc and 14 clicks GRIP2 fork: 10 hsc and 6 lsc

Way better than before! 
Thanks guys and special thanks to Ed


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Sebov said:


> Didn't really want to believe it but I tried the „clicks from full OPEN method" for my 30 clicks hsc and 14 clicks GRIP2 fork: 10 hsc and 6 lsc
> 
> Way better than before!
> Thanks guys and special thanks to Ed


+1 for Ed.

To add on to this, the fork already has so much midstroke performance and ramps up nicely with 1 token...that I doubt many of us need much HSC to being with.

@ 195lbs I've been running 63psi, with 6-8 clicks of HSC (from open), 4 or 6 clicks of LSC(from open), close to entirely "fast" HSR and middle of the road LSR. The small bump is great but without the token, I'm not bottoming out at all/ever (I'm not riding ultra chunk or hucking big stuff)...tho I feel like i need a little more ramp up. Fwiw my travel band isn't hitting the Kashima logo on a normal ride. It just feels like its too often getting close to it to easily. I'm guessing thats where HSC comes in.

Considering adding back in the token or really ramping up the HSC and maybe a touch more PSI. Not sure yet. Rebound adjustments have such an impact and I'm not sure I have enough tests on that yet. Its definitely a nice ride at this point. Something tells me I want that token back in and wide open HSC.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Check out the Yeti site and its recommended settings for the new SB150 on the grip2. I tried them yesterday and they are very close to spot on for me. They are vastly different to what Fox recommends.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

To piggy back off this they have an interactive set up guide where you plug in your rider weight and height. Here are mine for a 6' 205lb rider. Note HSC is 32 clicks Open. I think we can stop the debate about the clicks from closed


robmac48 said:


> Check out the Yeti site and its recommended settings for the new SB150 on the grip2. I tried them yesterday and they are very close to spot on for me. They are vastly different to what Fox recommends.












Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> To piggy back off this they have an interactive set up guide where you plug in your rider weight and height. Here are mine for a 6' 205lb rider. Note HSC is 32 clicks Open. I think we can stop the debate about the clicks from closed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm loving this but its still goofy. They say all settings start from OPEN (clockwise)...which is fine for compression and then if its wide open they list it as "Open" hence 32clicks from closed is "Open".

That being said, completely clockwise is NOT "open" rebound but instead fully damped rebound or closed. Thus making it hard for the oil to retreat back and slowing down the rebound correct?


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

They mention in the note that all clicks are from fully closed "clockwise" which is correct. So the recommended settings for HSC is 32 clicks which would put the rider setting fully open Essentially.


svinyard said:


> I'm loving this but its still goofy. They say all settings start from OPEN (clockwise)...which is fine for compression and then if its wide open they list it as "Open" hence 32clicks from closed is "Open".
> 
> That being said, completely clockwise is NOT "open" rebound but instead fully damped rebound or closed. Thus making it hard for the oil to retreat back and slowing down the rebound correct?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Doh, nm...yeah its clear as day. My bad.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

They recommend 80psi for my 195lbs riding weight for both the SB150 Factory Grip2 36 and the 150mm Fit4 on SB130. I've ridden with that...its WAY to high of pressure. I think they are running off of Fox's PSI numbers. I'd barely be at 20% sag. Makes for a stiff ride on both the Grip2 and Fit4 36s...I did a side by side test with my buddies Switchblade as he is the same weight as me. Neither of us liked how much arm pump we were getting from 80-ish PSI on both forks. What are you running TamiJean for PSI/Sag now?

FWIW I think the Mister Lost guy has it DIALED...and that dude is dropping off of some gnarly stuff out in Bellingham (that video of a like 10ft drop). He is running the Pivot setup with some adjustments. The only difference is that since he rides hard, he has two tokens in it instead of the stock 1. He certainly wasn't having issues popping off of stuff either.

At like 150lbs he is running 46psi.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

I have my fork set up at 75psi with 9 clicks of HSC and LSC from open and rebound at 5 clicks from open. Haven't ridden it yet but spending the day at the bike park tomorrow.


svinyard said:


> They recommend 80psi for my 195lbs riding weight for both the SB150 Factory Grip2 36 and the 150mm Fit4 on SB130. I've ridden with that...its WAY to high of pressure. I think they are running off of Fox's PSI numbers. I'd barely be at 20% sag. Makes for a stiff ride on both the Grip2 and Fit4 36s...I did a side by side test with my buddies Switchblade as he is the same weight as me. Neither of us liked how much arm pump we were getting from 80-ish PSI on both forks. What are you running TamiJean for PSI/Sag now?
> 
> FWIW I think the Mister Lost guy has it DIALED...and that dude is dropping off of some gnarly stuff out in Bellingham (that video of a like 10ft drop). He is running the Pivot setup with some adjustments. The only difference is that since he rides hard, he has two tokens in it instead of the stock 1. He certainly wasn't having issues popping off of stuff either.
> 
> At like 150lbs he is running 46psi.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Im 200lbs and today rode with 74psi HSC32 LSC12 HSR8 LSR11 with one token (all from fully closed). Used all but 10mm of travel in the skills/jump area and all but 20mm on the trails which were quite rooty, and covered in fist sized rocks.

On a sketchy downhill, loose rocky corner in particular the front felt fantastic. Tracked really well and absorbed everything without fuss. I’m going to try one more click clockwise HSR just to see if it takes away a tiny bit of deflection but it’s close to spot on for me.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Just a follow up post ride. Forks feel great. Heaps of feedback, following lines really well with minimal deflection, so much so I’m bombing straight through sections that have previously thrown me almost off the bike.

One thing I did notice was a small knock in the fork just at the peak compression point and just before it rebounded. It was almost like there was just the tiniest bit of slack in the damper, an uncontrolled moment. I turned the HSC clockwise about 8 or 9 clicks from fully open and the sound went away so maybe going to 32 clicks anti clockwise is actually almost unscrewing something? I’m not sure about that but yeah, it worked for me!


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> Just a follow up post ride. Forks feel great. Heaps of feedback, following lines really well with minimal deflection, so much so I'm bombing straight through sections that have previously thrown me almost off the bike.
> 
> One thing I did notice was a small knock in the fork just at the peak compression point and just before it rebounded. It was almost like there was just the tiniest bit of slack in the damper, an uncontrolled moment. I turned the HSC clockwise about 8 or 9 clicks from fully open and the sound went away so maybe going to 32 clicks anti clockwise is actually almost unscrewing something? I'm not sure about that but yeah, it worked for me!


Mine knocked like crazy and it really annoyed me


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

dlocki said:


> Mine knocked like crazy and it really annoyed me


Sorry if it's in the thread and I've missed it but what did you do to fix? Warranty? New fork?


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> Sorry if it's in the thread and I've missed it but what did you do to fix? Warranty? New fork?


Sent them back to silverfish in the uk. I'd only had the forks for 2 weeks when they started doing this. I rode them on a local loop then took them to Morzine for a week.

Silverfish replace the cartridge


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## ncm (Aug 3, 2018)

svinyard said:


> They recommend 80psi for my 195lbs riding weight for both the SB150 Factory Grip2 36 and the 150mm Fit4 on SB130. I've ridden with that...its WAY to high of pressure. I think they are running off of Fox's PSI numbers. I'd barely be at 20% sag. Makes for a stiff ride on both the Grip2 and Fit4 36s...I did a side by side test with my buddies Switchblade as he is the same weight as me. Neither of us liked how much arm pump we were getting from 80-ish PSI on both forks. What are you running TamiJean for PSI/Sag now?
> 
> FWIW I think the Mister Lost guy has it DIALED...and that dude is dropping off of some gnarly stuff out in Bellingham (that video of a like 10ft drop). He is running the Pivot setup with some adjustments. The only difference is that since he rides hard, he has two tokens in it instead of the stock 1. He certainly wasn't having issues popping off of stuff either.
> 
> At like 150lbs he is running 46psi.


I agree... I'm around 10 rides in on my Grip2 170mm (yeti sb150)... started at the recommended 66psi for my weight... I keep slowly decreasing it with every ride.... currently at about 56psi and probably could drop more... still haven't used the last 20mm and sag around 25%....


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

ncm said:


> I agree... I'm around 10 rides in on my Grip2 170mm (yeti sb150)... started at the recommended 66psi for my weight... I keep slowly decreasing it with every ride.... currently at about 56psi and probably could drop more... still haven't used the last 20mm and sag around 25%....


I just put the stock volume spacer back in. It was blowing through travel light stuff, even with more psi in it. The midstroke support is now back. I just did a 10m XC style run and used up prob 60% of travel at 67psi (195lbs kitted). It felt great the whole time. Heavier runs and jumps (with cases lol) will get into that 85% I'm guessing which is where I want to be. I had HSC wide open and 4 clicks of LSC. Note that if you are dropping psi, you may want an extra click or so of faster LSR to bring back some of the pop to keep things fun. My experience is that with that spacer in there, the fork rarely ever gets close to bottoming out. For an average rider like me, I just don't hit things that hard or drop that much to tap into that deep travel. I think its good to have that last 10% or so as emergency travel only (others have told me that). Take it with a grain of salt as I'm somewhat inexperienced.


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## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

Im running my 36grip2 on 3rd settings, 
Full riding weight 80kg, 1token; 

75 psi, 20% sag= 34mm
Full clockwise than back 
Lsr 6
Hsr 5
Hsc 10
Lsc 6
=good on big hits, horrible on small chatter, spikey on medium. 
Used 85-90% travel

Yeti guide;
70psi
Lsr 12
Hsr 8=open 
Hsc open 
Lsc 9
=good on big hits, better small bump, a bit less bad on small chatter, still packed down on medium fast brake bumps. 
Used 90-95% travel

Pivot: 55-60 psi
Clicks from full open 
Lsr 9
Hsr 3
Hsc 4
Lsc 5
Used 85-90% travel

Bikepark trails, types;
1 long 12km flow with quite chunky sections 
2 petzen flow 
3petzen ews
4petzen thriller 
5krvavec flow+ chunk
6krvavec rocknflow 

Yesterday the fork FINALLY starded to work with me, not against, stopped beating me along the trail. 

First few days it made me tired as ****. 

Almost pulled the plug on rc2 lyrik (i have the 160 rct3+ luftkappe on previous bike, and it works much better on small bumps+medium chatter) 

Today i will order the luftkappe+ low friction seals. 
Any more suggestions?


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

m789 said:


> Im running my 36grip2 on 3rd settings,
> Full riding weight 80kg, 1token;
> 
> 75 psi, 20% sag= 34mm
> ...


I'm about the same weight as you and found the same issues. 
I fitted some green skf seal, luftkappe and put motorex 2.5 oil in the damper

70psi
Lsc 8
Hsc 12
Lsr 7
Hsr 7


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## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

Thanx for the input. 

How does the motorex oil affect the performance?


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

m789 said:


> Thanx for the input.
> 
> How does the motorex oil affect the performance?


Just having reasearched the Teflon oil and how it says on the bottle shake well I wanted to try something else - I also wanted to have a look inside the damper. 
The Teflon oil from my damper is in a glass measuring jug on my bench and it has started to separate.

Performance wise it's much or a much, hard to tell without going back to back - the motorex oil is much quieter in the damper


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## evildos (Aug 17, 2015)

Do brand new forks still lack lubrification like in the old times ?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

evildos said:


> Do brand new forks still lack lubrification like in the old times ?


Absolutely not. The problem is that they have too much now. This can do a couple of things. When you open it up, the position can have an inordinate amount of slick honey around the piston which can use up space like a volume spacer. Not cool. Also if you get too much above the spring, it can block the little dimple in the stantion that allows air to equalize between both the positive and the negative. The end result is that both of those issues can cause an unnecessarily harsh fork. When I pulled mine apart upon receiving it, it wasnt all that bad but others in the past have seen it pretty bad.


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## evildos (Aug 17, 2015)

Thanks a lot for that clear input.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

svinyard said:


> Absolutely not. The problem is that they have too much now. This can do a couple of things. When you open it up, the position can have an inordinate amount of slick honey around the piston which can use up space like a volume spacer. Not cool. Also if you get too much above the spring, it can block the little dimple in the stantion that allows air to equalize between both the positive and the negative. The end result is that both of those issues can cause an unnecessarily harsh fork. When I pulled mine apart upon receiving it, it wasnt all that bad but others in the past have seen it pretty bad.


I changed my 34 oil a few weeks ago and it was amazing...yes, they actually used oil at the factory.

I think a few forks/shocks use so little oil that even if they do put it in, it doesn't do much more than "coat" the inside and when you go to "drain" it, nothing really comes out.


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## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

Nice, some proper good info in this thread now! 

...the loud oilflow is also bothering me, but thats nitpicking...


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

The fix is out for too many HSC clicks, all you need is washers!


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## slavi (Aug 8, 2017)

Rick Draper said:


> The fix is out for too many HSC clicks, all you need is washers!


What this mean? Is washers are important for fork characteristics?
Without washers, it works the same way and only has more clicks?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Awesome if works. So do we just call Fox? Have you verified it works?


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm struggling to see the point of this "fix".

Though it flies in the face of my too many to admit decades of dirt bike and mtb suspension tuning, I'm much more likely to simply count clicks from fully open than to start installing washers.

YMMV


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

kosmo said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm struggling to see the point of this "fix".
> 
> Though it flies in the face of my too many to admit decades of dirt bike and mtb suspension tuning, I'm much more likely to simply count clicks from fully open than to start installing washers.
> 
> YMMV


I think there is a chance that the "real clicks" are variably within the middle of the full 32. Hence Fox's documentation trying to get people to go until they feel 2nm+ of pressure and start from closed. Too much ambiguity, I think a number of people have different click "start and stop" points too. If this fixes that, I'm happy to have it and expected it earlier.


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## Mopar (Sep 1, 2017)

svinyard said:


> I think there is a chance that the "real clicks" are variably within the middle of the full 32. Hence Fox's documentation trying to get people to go until they feel 2nm+ of pressure and start from closed. Too much ambiguity, I think a number of people have different click "start and stop" points too. If this fixes that, I'm happy to have it and expected it earlier.


I have just had my 36 Grip 2 at the suspension guys I use here in NZ. A couple of things they found was too much grease like it had just been dunked in a bucket of grease and the seals were bone dry.

Also they have had several sets of forks on their shock dyno to determine what the damper is doing so they can tune the suspension properly. They found on all the forks with 32 clicks of HSC that the adjustment was 16 clicks from fully closed, not from open. The extra clicks to fully open did nothing as shown on their dyno.


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## KoolGrandWizardLuke (Dec 23, 2017)

This adjuster should always be set from full closed.
Engineers are stubborn idiots some times. Too full of themselves to admit a wrong or see that they are wrong.
Go ahead and set it how you like. But anyone with any actual understanding of the suspension and how it works technically will be setting the adjuster from full closed. This is the case with most adjusters on dampers. But there are a few exceptions. This is not one of those exceptions.

Mopars post with what his suspension shop has found is just one more piece of evidence.

The amount of people on here that think they know about dampers without having any knowledge is hilarious. Almost as bad as the linkage and geometry experts.....


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

I've always figured it's not so much how you count it, as where you actually set it.

I've been having great luck with the Fox recommendations for tuning this fork.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Mopar said:


> I have just had my 36 Grip 2 at the suspension guys I use here in NZ. A couple of things they found was too much grease like it had just been dunked in a bucket of grease and the seals were bone dry.
> 
> Also they have had several sets of forks on their shock dyno to determine what the damper is doing so they can tune the suspension properly. They found on all the forks with 32 clicks of HSC that the adjustment was 16 clicks from fully closed, not from open. The extra clicks to fully open did nothing as shown on their dyno.


Cool to get some real data. Does your fork have a point when moving to closed where it gets harder to turn? Mine does, according to fox that is where it's truly closed but its hard to say for sure and it sounds like your guy found it "completely" closed which would indicate that they turned it passed that 'hard to turn point'. Is there an easy way to fix the dry seals? I've torn mine down a couple of times. It's greased and oiled appropriately but I didn't do anything with the seals.


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## Nevada 29er (Nov 12, 2007)

I find it hard to believe anyone is running any HSC on this fork. At 205 lbs w/o gear, I've been running about 70 psi to get 28-30% sag, full open HSC, and 0-4 LSC depending on the trail.


Everytime I try adding HSC the fork just seems to get harsh. Too much grease? I have yet to pull it apart and look inside. But with 0 HSC, I find it does just fine on trails and limited bike park. Maybe at superhuman speeds the HSC is useful.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Nevada 29er said:


> I find it hard to believe anyone is running any HSC on this fork. At 205 lbs w/o gear, I've been running about 70 psi to get 28-30% sag, full open HSC, and 0-4 LSC depending on the trail.
> 
> Everytime I try adding HSC the fork just seems to get harsh. Too much grease? I have yet to pull it apart and look inside. But with 0 HSC, I find it does just fine on trails and limited bike park. Maybe at superhuman speeds the HSC is useful.


I screwed up a jump that wasn't insanely high and nosed into the flat landing. I have the same setup as you and I'm 195lbs. Travel band was on the lower portion of Kashima logo. I'm thinking of adding some HSC or maybe a volume spacer. I tried adding some more psi but didn't like how it handled the chop. Or should I be adjusting in a different way? Or maybe it's good where it is?


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## darsannn (Sep 7, 2017)

Dont know is it me or just my fork.
i am 79kgs and running 80-81psi with 1 token. LSC 10 klicks from open. fast rebound. HSC a couple clicks from open.
if i am riding slowly the fork feels stiff, but it shines when i am fast and i like to go fast.
also if i am going hard into berms with holes the fork has to stay high in the travel. with 75 psi the fork blows through travel too fast.


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## Robbeh (Jan 1, 2017)

Nevada 29er said:


> I find it hard to believe anyone is running any HSC on this fork. At 205 lbs w/o gear, I've been running about 70 psi to get 28-30% sag, full open HSC, and 0-4 LSC depending on the trail.
> 
> Everytime I try adding HSC the fork just seems to get harsh. Too much grease? I have yet to pull it apart and look inside. But with 0 HSC, I find it does just fine on trails and limited bike park. Maybe at superhuman speeds the HSC is useful.


My experience is similar. Although I'm 160lbs, I'm running 46 PSI, 0-2 clicks HSC and 4 clicks LSC, so almost entirely open. The fork feels dialed, any more than that and it feels really harsh.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

darsannn said:


> Dont know is it me or just my fork.
> i am 79kgs and running 80-81psi with 1 token. LSC 10 klicks from open. fast rebound. HSC a couple clicks from open.
> if i am riding slowly the fork feels stiff, but it shines when i am fast and i like to go fast.
> also if i am going hard into berms with holes the fork has to stay high in the travel. with 75 psi the fork blows through travel too fast.


i bet if you ride down a road sat on the seat for say 30-60 seconds then stood up and compress the forks they will jolt into the travel, this is exactly how mine felt.

They were really stiff - like i had a ton of lsc but good when giving it the beans.

if you pull the lower legs off you will be able to cycle the damper and air shaft to see if one of them has any resistance. my moneys on the damper


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## darsannn (Sep 7, 2017)

maybe you misunderstood. my fork feels stiff but it works great. just wanted to share my settings and convince some of you to try more psi. when i learned something about fork setup, if you want to feel it nicely on the car park it only get worse on the trail. you have to think - oh this must be unridealbe. there are bigger forces on the trail than you might think.

plus if your rear is to soft you wont get enough pressure on the front. balancing the suspension ist relevant.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

As I've ridden the fork harder, I think there is real merit to adding a second spacer for faster/harder riders. I really like the feel of the fork on chatter with the psi dropped a bit, but it at times has dove a bit more than I would have liked on some larger hits. More HSC or another spacer would probably get the best of both worlds if you are a hard rider. High psi (80psi is high for a 79kg/176lbs) and I'd be worried about traction and other small bump kind of stuff. I'd try the spacer before making it that stiff (Mister Lost did this). You might get the best of both worlds. Again I'm learning here so take that with a grain of salt and my fork is only 150mm spring.


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## Mopar (Sep 1, 2017)

svinyard said:


> Cool to get some real data. Does your fork have a point when moving to closed where it gets harder to turn? Mine does, according to fox that is where it's truly closed but its hard to say for sure and it sounds like your guy found it "completely" closed which would indicate that they turned it passed that 'hard to turn point'. Is there an easy way to fix the dry seals? I've torn mine down a couple of times. It's greased and oiled appropriately but I didn't do anything with the seals.


When I turn my HSC dial clockwise to close it, it eventually gets to the point where it doesn't click and the dial gets firmer. According to my shock guy i'ts closed at that point.

Sorry can't help with how they lubricated the seal. They did tell me to put the bike upside down occasionally to allow oil to run to the top of the fork to lube the seals


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

svinyard said:


> As I've ridden the fork harder, I think there is real merit to adding a second spacer for faster/harder riders. I really like the feel of the fork on chatter with the psi dropped a bit, but it at times has dove a bit more than I would have liked on some larger hits. More HSC or another spacer would probably get the best of both worlds if you are a hard rider. High psi (80psi is high for a 79kg/176lbs) and I'd be worried about traction and other small bump kind of stuff. I'd try the spacer before making it that stiff (Mister Lost did this). You might get the best of both worlds. Again I'm learning here so take that with a grain of salt and my fork is only 150mm spring.


Vorsprung luftkappe may help

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Mopar (Sep 1, 2017)

yeti575inCA said:


> Vorsprung luftkappe may help
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


As I posted earlier I cleaned all the extra grease out. And lubed everything properly. Also fitted a luftkappe. I'm 165 lbs running 64 psi with no tokens. HSC almost wide open. LSC from memory is about 3-4 clicks from open. Very plush but holds up well. Using all but 10mm of travel but haven't had any huge hits yet. Doing the above has turned it from good to awesome


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

Mopar said:


> As I posted earlier I cleaned all the extra grease out. And lubed everything properly. Also fitted a luftkappe. I'm 165 lbs running 64 psi with no tokens. HSC almost wide open. LSC from memory is about 3-4 clicks from open. Very plush but holds up well. Using all but 10mm of travel but haven't had any huge hits yet. Doing the above has turned it from good to awesome


Sorry. Didnt go thru the whole thread. I live mine and run zero tokens and zero hsc on 2016 rc2 160mm

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## darsannn (Sep 7, 2017)

svinyard said:


> As I've ridden the fork harder, I think there is real merit to adding a second spacer for faster/harder riders. I really like the feel of the fork on chatter with the psi dropped a bit, but it at times has dove a bit more than I would have liked on some larger hits. More HSC or another spacer would probably get the best of both worlds if you are a hard rider. High psi (80psi is high for a 79kg/176lbs) and I'd be worried about traction and other small bump kind of stuff. I'd try the spacer before making it that stiff (Mister Lost did this). You might get the best of both worlds. Again I'm learning here so take that with a grain of salt and my fork is only 150mm spring.


fully agree. i have tried 2 spacers, but found that the first half of the travel is too soft and the fork runs always in the endprogression. so i had to put more pressure in which agian lead me to reduce one spacer and run more psi.

but maybe its worth to try it again with more lsc/hsc after i read your post.. small bump is suffering for sure with this setup (1 token 80psi).


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## Mopar (Sep 1, 2017)

darsannn said:


> fully agree. i have tried 2 spacers, but found that the first half of the travel is too soft and the fork runs always in the endprogression. so i had to put more pressure in which agian lead me to reduce one spacer and run more psi.
> 
> but maybe its worth to try it again with more lsc/hsc after i read your post.. small bump is suffering for sure with this setup (1 token 80psi).


My suspension guys have found that riders they do set ups for are running one less spacer in the Grip 2 than they ran in their older forks. They have advised me to add a bit of LSC if I find the fork diving too much.

They also found on their dyno that the first couple of clicks of LSC only makes a very small difference. Altering the LSC also had an affect on the HSC and vice versa. 
I'm not bothered by what the sag shows as it is very hard to repeat an accurate load on the front and I'll just keep dropping air pressure and add a bit of LSC if required until I get to the best set up. My fork is now fantastic over the small bumps, roots and chatter but still holds up well in the mid stroke over bigger hits
The Luftkaffe has made a huge difference to how plush the initial travel is

Originally I had one spacer and had the air down around 45psi. The fork has been way better with a bit more air and no spacer


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

Fullflow suspension in Auburn,CA is a expert on Luftkappe






Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

I just opened mine up to check oil and grease levels and it was all as it should be. I was going to grease the seals with slick honey and realized you probably should t use that on the damper side. The grip 2 is basically the same as the Marz DBC and the said not to use slick honey because it can get in the damper and clog things. Marz said to only use molykote 55 grease because it breaks down in the damper oil.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I came back from a ride and we busted out the kids mini-ramp we use for my 6yro. He was nice enough to get a vid of me as I wanted to see what my suspension was doing. I noticed when I rolled in that I was nearly hitting the kashima logo (I have 150mm of travel). I wasn't doing that much of a compression either. 
I did about the same on the landing too oddly enough and I got some air out of it. I have the stock spacer, about 8 clicks out from closed (where it gets hard to twist), 5clicks of LSC (from open) and 71psi (I'm about 190lb kitted). The fork feels great on the trail but I've felt I've been going through the mid-travel too much. About to throw in another spacer and give it a try. Any thoughts as to what is wrong or right as a next step?








fwiw yes I'm the muppet permanently in pads. Trying to keep the example up for the kids and not get hurt keeping up.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Initial travel to mid stroke - add pressure
Bottom out resistance - add a token 

I had this discussion with vorsprung last night as I was blowing the first to mid stroke and Steve advised pressure


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Gotcha, spacer has been added.

When I did it, all the air was out of the fork. While it was out, I started setting the lsc/hsc to extremes to get a feel for how it worked and how they work together. 

Fascinating test. I'm convinced the HSC is set from closed now. If you set your lsc all the way open and then set the hsc open... You get a feel for how wide open feels. Then set lsc closed all the way. It's odd in that lsc is active but not huge while hsc is open. Next close the hsc all the way (lsc still closed) and wow, the whole travel speed is changed significantly. Then slowly open the hsc up one or two clicks at a time. You'll feel it start to open up noticeably, even early on in the travel.

I'm still messing with it, but testing it without air (like someone else advised) is a great way to test out the damper and how they interact together.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

2 spacers has helped the fork to ramp up but now it's not using at much travel as it should, like a little too much ramp up. Hsc is wide open and psi is nicely at 69psi. I suppose I could try lowering psi a bit and adding in lsc (not sure if that's ideal).

Wondering if there is a smaller spacer? The two orange ones are 10cc (20 total). Would be ideal around 15cc at this point. Do they sell a smaller spacer? I saw a blue 8cc spacer but it says its for a Fox 32.


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## colonelkurtz13 (Aug 8, 2016)

svinyard said:


> I'm loving this but its still goofy. They say all settings start from OPEN (clockwise)...which is fine for compression and then if its wide open they list it as "Open" hence 32clicks from closed is "Open".
> 
> That being said, completely clockwise is NOT "open" rebound but instead fully damped rebound or closed. Thus making it hard for the oil to retreat back and slowing down the rebound correct?


Looks like Yeti has updated its site to where 16 clicks of HSC is "open"

I ran the fit guide for 200lbs for SB150

HSC- 16 Clicks, Open


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

FWIW I'm using the settings from the Yeti calculator and the forks feel pretty damn good so far. 

All settings were starting from fully closed (clockwise) and winding out the amount of clicks as stated by the calculator.

Comparing this to a DVO Diamond and Pike that I've had previously.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Where is this calculator? I can't find it.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Travis Bickle said:


> Where is this calculator? I can't find it.


Just go to the sb150 page and there is a setup link. I think their stuff is good but their PSI is on the highside.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Yeti is in the running for poorest web design ever. Thanks, finally got it.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Travis Bickle said:


> Yeti is in the running for poorest web design ever. Thanks, finally got it.


Yeah it's rediculously bad and slow to render too. Plus it's hard to get back out to look at a different bike once you look at one. Forcing users to scroll down (unbeknownst to them) for certain critical menus to pop up is stupid too.

The content is nice tho


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## Mister Lost Bike Shop (May 6, 2017)

Hey guys! Mike here from Mister Lost Bike Shop. I'm super happy my video helped a bunch of you guys dial in your forks!

I know there's a bunch of frustration with the GRIP2 damper adjustments, but just follow my steps and you're fork will feel much better. Once I got mine all dialed in, its been the best, most sensitive damp/fork I've ever used. It might seem biased because I'm a Fox dealer, but I sell every brand of suspension. I've put every brand through the ringer the past few years and the Fox suspension absolutely feels the best and has been proven to be the most reliable.

One thing to keep in mind is that anything with this much adjustment has room for confusion, and therefore room for error in adjustments. This is why I created my video to show how you can go through each adjustment individually to feel how each adjustment makes the fork feel. Even if you've had adjustable suspension before, this is still important as every damper is different!

If you ever have any questions about suspension setup or anything bike related, give me a ring at the shop at 360-306-8827. I also have pretty much every part from every brand and I'll be happy to help with any sales, service, or general bike chat!


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

svinyard said:


> Just go to the sb150 page and there is a setup link. I think their stuff is good but their PSI is on the highside.


Yeah I'm still fine tuning but I am finding maybe 5% less air than the yeti guide might be ideal depending on style of riding. Their settings are a very good starting point though.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Mister Lost Bike Shop said:


> Hey guys! Mike here from Mister Lost Bike Shop. I'm super happy my video helped a bunch of you guys dial in your forks!
> 
> I know there's a bunch of frustration with the GRIP2 damper adjustments, but just follow my steps and you're fork will feel much better. Once I got mine all dialed in, its been the best, most sensitive damp/fork I've ever used. It might seem biased because I'm a Fox dealer, but I sell every brand of suspension. I've put every brand through the ringer the past few years and the Fox suspension absolutely feels the best and has been proven to be the most reliable.
> 
> ...


Hi can you please link your video I cannot find your post anywhere including in your history! Thanks.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)




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## Mister Lost Bike Shop (May 6, 2017)

svinyard said:


>


Thanks for linking my video!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Mister Lost Bike Shop said:


> Thanks for linking my video!


It's the least I could do. We spoke on the phone a while back about this fork. Couldn't have been more helpful Mike, thanks again, you the man!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I'm working through rebound adjustments on this fork. I've watched some of the Tues Tuning stuff from Vorspring and Mister Lost's video on this fork. I'm going with that process but I also notice guys talking about adjusting rebound by simply pressing the bars down and making it just under a "top out" where it pops to the top and takes the front wheel off the ground. Whats up with that? Even with all of my rebound entire open (hsr/lsr) it never does that. I'm on a 29er carbon rim, dt240s, and 2.5 DHF. I'm guessing my big tire is just to heavy for it to "top out"?

Fwiw its a good idea to watch the rebound episodes (or any) from Vorsprung's Steve on Youtube. the HSC and HSR are basically overflow valves that allow you to adjust how fast the overflow (the stuff that can't get through the lsc/lsr fast enough) go through the valve. Obviously on high velocity cycles (not high velocity riding necessarily) these overflow valves are used. Also...the more LSC/LSR damping you use (constricting the valve throughput)...the more the HSC/HSR is activated on high velocity hits as the "overflow" of oil happens sooner/more often.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

I have had a 2019 Lyrik for 4 months, and now I just got a Grip2 about 10 days ago. So far I am finding the Fox fork more unpredictable on the trail and confusing to adjust. 

Will keep playing with different settings, and see if I can get this thing to feel good. 
For me the base setting recommended on the fox website it was almost unrideable on slow speed jagged rocks. The fork would deflect unpredictably and not hold its line. 

Changed a bunch of things after reading through here and some other resources.
Current settings are:
Rider weight: 150lbs
PSI: unknown (probably mid 60s, I have conflicting shock pumps...)
2 tokens
160mm travel

HSC: 13 clicks from all the way closed "firm"
LSC: 2 clicks from all the way open "soft"

HSR: 5 clicks from all the way closed "slow"
LSR: 6 clicks from all the way open "fast" 

*Yes, I am aware that my click orientations are really weird

Will test this out tomorrow morning and see how it is.


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

^^ I'm 200# with 2 tokens on a 180mm fork and I ride at 60 psi (exactly per shockwhiz).

You settings do seem odd but tinkering will help control the fork. Having both hi/low on both compression and rebound are the beauty of this fork. Suggest adjusting one at a time instead of all of them. Maybe reduce your pressure?


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Wacha Wacha Wacha said:


> ^^ I'm 200# with 2 tokens on a 180mm fork and I ride at 60 psi (exactly per shockwhiz).
> 
> You settings do seem odd but tinkering will help control the fork. Having both hi/low on both compression and rebound are the beauty of this fork. Suggest adjusting one at a time instead of all of them. Maybe reduce your pressure?


Yeah, I don't know why but I always seem to like my forks really stiff in comparison to other riders. Even on my moto. Which is weird because I ride pretty "light" on the bike, and feel like I ride pretty smooth too.

Luckily there is enough knobs and dials to keep me occupied until I get it right or until I give up and get a road bike. Lol


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## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

@rboardman

Have you dropped the lowers & checked the negative yet? 
It might be overgreased...


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

RBoardman said:


> or until I give up and get a road bike. Lol


Don't do that. Such a waste of REP!


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

RBoardman said:


> I have had a 2019 Lyrik for 4 months, and now I just got a Grip2 about 10 days ago. So far I am finding the Fox fork more unpredictable on the trail and confusing to adjust.
> 
> Will keep playing with different settings, and see if I can get this thing to feel good.
> For me the base setting recommended on the fox website it was almost unrideable on slow speed jagged rocks. The fork would deflect unpredictably and not hold its line.
> ...


Most NEW forks will have more stiction until the bushing wear in. As others have said it's worth pulling the lowers and making sure the fluids and grease are all at the proper levels.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

m789 said:


> @rboardman
> 
> Have you dropped the lowers & checked the negative yet?
> It might be overgreased...


No. I was hesitant to do that because I don't think I have the proper oil to replace it with. (*I'll look through the thread to see if people are using some generic oil that I might have)


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

So after my ride this morning I found that slowing down the high speed rebound (3 clicks from closed) really helped my bike in the rocks. Still running the LSR on the faster side. 

Also added more psi and more LS compression than what I had it set in the garage last night.

I am going to try and find a different shock pump tonight. I have two Rockshox ones and they both read 7-10 psi different, so don’t really trust either.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

alexbn921 said:


> Most NEW forks will have more stiction until the bushing wear in. As others have said it's worth pulling the lowers and making sure the fluids and grease are all at the proper levels.


I have done about 12k' of rough descending. I would assume that would be more than enough to break it in?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RBoardman said:


> So after my ride this morning I found that slowing down the high speed rebound (3 clicks from closed) really helped my bike in the rocks. Still running the LSR on the faster side.
> 
> Also added more psi and more LS compression than what I had it set in the garage last night.
> 
> I am going to try and find a different shock pump tonight. I have two Rockshox ones and they both read 7-10 psi different, so don't really trust either.


Keep an eye on that HSR, a few more pro level guys have talked about how the HSR is actually prettly slow and that pack down was an issue if it wasn't sped it up (some have it wide open/fast). Or couse the LSR and HSR are a team so if your LSR is open, the HSR is used a bit less and later.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

svinyard said:


> Keep an eye on that HSR, a few more pro level guys have talked about how the HSR is actually prettly slow and that pack down was an issue if it wasn't sped it up (some have it wide open/fast). Or couse the LSR and HSR are a team so if your LSR is open, the HSR is used a bit less and later.


Yeah, I think for normal riding conditions (Santa Cruz is my local spot) I will definitely have it sped up more. But this weekend I'm doing a collegiate race on trails that are so jagged and rocky you cannot pedal or flow; but they are also so flat that if you don't pedal you will come to a complete stop.... fun.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RBoardman said:


> Yeah, I think for normal riding conditions (Santa Cruz is my local spot) I will definitely have it sped up more. But this weekend I'm doing a collegiate race on trails that are so jagged and rocky you cannot pedal or flow; but they are also so flat that if you don't pedal you will come to a complete stop.... fun.


Cool, since you mentioned college racing... can someone get a scholarship for mountain biking? Asking for my 6yro lol. Wondering if there is an end game the investment.

Fwiw I think the successive hits of chunky stuff at a decent speed (maybe your terrain is slow tho) is where HSR comes in. The fork needs to be able to recover enough to take the next hit otherwise it just packs in and then gets really harsh and potentially overloads your rear a bit since it's unbalanced. Not that you would want it uber fast either... tho I don't think the fork is stacked very quickly anyways on HSR. Food for thought.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

svinyard said:


> Cool, since you mentioned college racing... can someone get a scholarship for mountain biking? Asking for my 6yro lol. Wondering if there is an end game the investment.
> 
> Fwiw I think the successive hits of chunky stuff at a decent speed (maybe your terrain is slow tho) is where HSR comes in. The fork needs to be able to recover enough to take the next hit otherwise it just packs in and then gets really harsh and potentially overloads your rear a bit since it's unbalanced. Not that you would want it uber fast either... tho I don't think the fork is stacked very quickly anyways on HSR. Food for thought.


Yes, it is possible to get scholarships to elite schools I believe (Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, etc) around here. probably better chances at schools in the mid-west and east coast if I had to guess. The Stanford team is sponsored by specialized, and the riders can borrow whatever bikes they want whenever they want, they also have a private mtb coach, have funding for races and travel and stuff.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

RBoardman said:


> I have had a 2019 Lyrik for 4 months, and now I just got a Grip2 about 10 days ago. So far I am finding the Fox fork more unpredictable on the trail and confusing to adjust.
> 
> Will keep playing with different settings, and see if I can get this thing to feel good.
> For me the base setting recommended on the fox website it was almost unrideable on slow speed jagged rocks. The fork would deflect unpredictably and not hold its line.
> ...


Sounds like you are running way too much air.

I am same weight as you and I run 56psi (measured with digital tyre gauge) with no tokens. I like my suspension linear.

I have HSR and HSC on full open. The forks track very straight over super rough rock gardens.

Still tinkering for now as I would like to reduce the arm pump a bit. I might drop the pressure a little.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Mister Lost Bike Shop said:


> Thanks for linking my video!


Thanks for making the video! I love your enthusiasm and you explain things very clearly.


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## nomoregolfcartpaths (Jul 29, 2014)

I can not convey how disgusted I am with fox. This 2019 grip 2 with an unknown but much greater than 16 clicks is useless. This is the worst fork I have ever owned and I been bikeing a long time. It is harsh to the point of dangerous to ride due to deflections. My old beat down pike 140 is much plusher. I have sent back to fox and they say everything is fine do not worry about the extra click and recived it back in the same condition i sent it in. I tried it and it is just as bad as before. Sending it back a second time and if they do not take this seriously and replace the dampener or whole fork I am going to sue for my money back. Who wants to join a class action?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

nomoregolfcartpaths said:


> I can not convey how disgusted I am with fox. This 2019 grip 2 with an unknown but much greater than 16 clicks is useless. This is the worst fork I have ever owned and I been bikeing a long time. It is harsh to the point of dangerous to ride due to deflections. My old beat down pike 140 is much plusher. I have sent back to fox and they say everything is fine do not worry about the extra click and recived it back in the same condition i sent it in. I tried it and it is just as bad as before. Sending it back a second time and if they do not take this seriously and replace the dampener or whole fork I am going to sue for my money back. Who wants to join a class action?


Please list out your weight, riding style and setup (including tokens) as well as how much travel you are using. Odds are we can help out.

Try either of the following:
Yetis setup but drop about 10psi and add an extra click of lsc

Pivots setup (plush)

Keep a single token in there for now. Both of those setups can easily be found on their website. Yetis is under the sb150 setup page. Pivots is under suspension setup there and is a good place to start of plush is what you want. Also describe what you are missing. Plush on big rocky root gnar stuff and drops...or plush on smaller stuff. Oh also, Mister Losts YouTube video on how to setup the fork is required watching imo.


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## BigJZ74 (Jul 18, 2010)

nomoregolfcartpaths said:


> I can not convey how disgusted I am with fox. This 2019 grip 2 with an unknown but much greater than 16 clicks is useless. This is the worst fork I have ever owned and I been bikeing a long time. It is harsh to the point of dangerous to ride due to deflections. My old beat down pike 140 is much plusher. I have sent back to fox and they say everything is fine do not worry about the extra click and recived it back in the same condition i sent it in. I tried it and it is just as bad as before. Sending it back a second time and if they do not take this seriously and replace the dampener or whole fork I am going to sue for my money back. Who wants to join a class action?


I must say I kinda agreed with you at first. Coming from a Lyrik, The Grip 2 was so harsh and felt TERRIBLE in the rocky terrain I ride in. I added 2 more tokens from stock, 3 total tokens and dropped 5 psi and I finally got the plush small bump compliance I was looking for. Still not as plush as the Lyrik but that had 180mm of travel. I am gonna extend my 36 to 170mm from 160. It definitely takes a bit of time to get it dialed but when you do it is a great fork


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## Mister Lost Bike Shop (May 6, 2017)

nomoregolfcartpaths said:


> I can not convey how disgusted I am with fox. This 2019 grip 2 with an unknown but much greater than 16 clicks is useless. This is the worst fork I have ever owned and I been bikeing a long time. It is harsh to the point of dangerous to ride due to deflections. My old beat down pike 140 is much plusher. I have sent back to fox and they say everything is fine do not worry about the extra click and recived it back in the same condition i sent it in. I tried it and it is just as bad as before. Sending it back a second time and if they do not take this seriously and replace the dampener or whole fork I am going to sue for my money back. Who wants to join a class action?


Please watch my video when you have the time, and I guarantee your fork will feel extremely better!

Also don't over-think the amount of clicks your fork has. Like Fox says, the fork is 100% working properly. There is no mechanical stop in these dampers. It 100% does not matter how many clicks you feel, only the certain amount of clicks are functional.

My GRIP2 fork is the best feeling fork I've ever used, and I've been able to spend time on pretty much every suspension brand as a shop owner.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

nomoregolfcartpaths said:


> I can not convey how disgusted I am with fox. This 2019 grip 2 with an unknown but much greater than 16 clicks is useless. This is the worst fork I have ever owned and I been bikeing a long time. It is harsh to the point of dangerous to ride due to deflections. My old beat down pike 140 is much plusher. I have sent back to fox and they say everything is fine do not worry about the extra click and recived it back in the same condition i sent it in. I tried it and it is just as bad as before. Sending it back a second time and if they do not take this seriously and replace the dampener or whole fork I am going to sue for my money back. Who wants to join a class action?


Just count clicks CCW from closed. Don't worry about the extra clicks they don't do anything.


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Mister Lost Bike Shop said:


> My GRIP2 fork is the best feeling fork I've ever used, and I've been able to spend time on pretty much every suspension brand as a shop owner.


First off, great video on the Fox GRIP2. :thumbsup: I found it informative.

When you have a chance - can you tell us the differences/similarities between the 36 GRIP2 and the Lyrik RC2. Thank you.


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## chuckiebruster (Dec 5, 2016)

Video was awesome - i sped up my HSR a few clicks and it made a noticeable improvement when riding through the chunk at speed.


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## nomoregolfcartpaths (Jul 29, 2014)

You cant tune broken. The dampener and airside were replaced after fox being difficult and pretending it was me. Whatever the problem was it was fixed with replaceing the parts. It now rides like the reviews claim. Stand up for your rights and advicate for yourself. Companies/people try to take the easy way out. If it doesnt feel right send it back. 

Do not let random people on the internet tell you your doing it wrong even if they mean well.


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## Mister Lost Bike Shop (May 6, 2017)

kwapik said:


> When you have a chance - can you tell us the differences/similarities between the 36 GRIP2 and the Lyrik RC2. Thank you.


The Lyrik has 35mm stanchions, and lacks high-speed rebound adjustment. The Charger damper is more easily serviced by the consumer.

The Fox 36 has the 36mm stanchions, so it will naturally be a little more stiff. The GRIP2 damper has every adjustment possible, so the sky is the limit with adjustability. Fox dampers aren't impossible to do yourself, but usually its easier to just bring it to a suspension shop/send somewhere for service.

Honestly, they're both excellent forks! They both have large negative air springs and super sensitive dampers. It really comes down to the trade off of having one less adjustment vs. having an easier time servicing it yourself.

-Mike


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Grip2 is the best fork I have ever ridden hands down. Shocked to see the hate in here...


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Streetdoctor said:


> Grip2 is the best fork I have ever ridden hands down. Shocked to see the hate in here...


Lol Fox isn't known for their quality control so it's hardly surprising the biggest platform is not going to hear some negatives (bit like the Yeti debacle).

I've been chasing a decent set up with my grip 2 for weeks now with no success. Fitted a Luftkappe which assisted but still didn't feel right, like there is a dead spot between the transition of rebound and compression (low speed shaft movement is ok, faster movements reveal this phenomenon). Fitted low friction seals, again helped slightly but still not great. I refitted my original grip damper and that feels better than then grip2 so something is up.
Taking it back to the shop tomorrow to send back to Fox.


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## Mister Lost Bike Shop (May 6, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> Lol Fox isn't known for their quality control so it's hardly surprising the biggest platform is not going to hear some negatives (bit like the Yeti debacle).
> 
> I've been chasing a decent set up with my grip 2 for weeks now with no success. Fitted a Luftkappe which assisted but still didn't feel right, like there is a dead spot between the transition of rebound and compression (low speed shaft movement is ok, faster movements reveal this phenomenon). Fitted low friction seals, again helped slightly but still not great. I refitted my original grip damper and that feels better than then grip2 so something is up.
> Taking it back to the shop tomorrow to send back to Fox.


Have you tried setting up your fork with the methods in my video?


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Mister Lost Bike Shop said:


> Have you tried setting up your fork with the methods in my video?


No I haven't watched your video but I'm pretty confident on setting up my suspension. I will check it out though.

The action of the fork I'm relatively happy with but this annoyance within the damper can be felt quite easily when going over fast chatter and it now has my full attention lol

I'll try a couple of other grip2 dampers in the shop tomorrow to see if they do what mine is doing.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

after 6 moths of trying to get mine to work for me i'll settled at the following.
Im 83ish kgs so about 180lbs

Luftkappe fitted
Skf green seals
Motorex 4wt oil in damper

HSR 7
LSR 6
HSC12
LSC 8

All from full closed

72 PSI - zero tokens


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## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

Dlocki, 


What/how do you ride mostly? 
Have you ridden the rc2 lyrik yet? Comparrisson with the luftkapped grip2 ?


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

I’m in the uk and the area we live is very rocky natural terrain 

I like the forks supple and quite active then be progressive without being too hard.

I’ve not ridden a Lyrik But was very tempted to get some when I was struggling with the 36


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Turns out my damper isn’t functioning like it should so is getting replaced. Fingers crossed the new one turns out to be as good as everyone is saying it is!


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## oldsklrdr (May 15, 2012)

Was looking to pick up grip2 fork in the new year...Quality control issues and overgreasing brought up in this thread are concerning...🧐

Really don’t feel like pulling apart a new fork just to check on something which should come correct from the factory!


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

oldsklrdr said:


> Was looking to pick up grip2 fork in the new year...Quality control issues and overgreasing brought up in this thread are concerning...?
> 
> Really don't feel like pulling apart a new fork just to check on something which should come correct from the factory!


i pull every pair of forks i get apart before it goes on the bike. they are never right from the factory


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I just had my forks come in, they had the 30 clicks issue and a really subtle knock at the top of travel, I sent it back for warranty


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

senorbanana said:


> I just had my forks come in, they had the 30 clicks issue and a really subtle knock at the top of travel, I sent it back for warranty


A knock at the top out can be caused by insufficient charging of the negative spring.

Follow the procedure to ensure it has been equalised.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I have ridden it around the block jumping up and down cycling through the travel. Is there anything else I was supposed to do? And was the 30 click issue ever completly fixed?


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## Mopar (Sep 1, 2017)

senorbanana said:


> I have ridden it around the block jumping up and down cycling through the travel. Is there anything else I was supposed to do? And was the 30 click issue ever completly fixed?


When inflating the fork I believe you should add say 15 lbs, cycle the fork through its travel a few times, add another 10-15 lbs cycle again and so on till you arrive at your pressure. I've been told if you add all the air in one go the negative spring won't equalize

My fork has 30 clicks and as in an earlier post my suspension guys have had the 36 fork on a shock dyno and have shown the first 15-16 clicks from closed are the adjustment. After that it is open and the further clicks make no difference. Has worked out fine on my fork and I'm very happy with it


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I will go through with that procedure when I get it back, I just want my 1k fork to be perfect is all.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

senorbanana said:


> I have ridden it around the block jumping up and down cycling through the travel. Is there anything else I was supposed to do? And was the 30 click issue ever completly fixed?


inflate the fork gradually (from 0 psi) and every 10 psi or so, slowly push the fork down into its travel until the point where you hear a psshhhh equalising sound. It is about the 20-30mm travel mark for most forks.

Then put more air in, repeat etc, until you get to your target air pressure. Then ride it and top up the air again as needed.


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

dlocki said:


> i pull every pair of forks i get apart before it goes on the bike. they are never right from the factory


"i pull every pair of forks i get apart before it goes on the bike" - But you should not have to.
"they are never right from the factory" - But they should be.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

kwapik said:


> "i pull every pair of forks i get apart before it goes on the bike" - But you should not have to.
> "they are never right from the factory" - But they should be.


Don't disagree with you one bit. But that is the reality, so better to apply some self help rather than be in denial and ride a substandard fork.


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## evildos (Aug 17, 2015)

You're both right, and that's kind of sad for such expensive stuff


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

teK-- said:


> Don't disagree with you one bit. But that is the reality, so better to apply some self help rather than be in denial and ride a substandard fork.


I agree. I always take a look inside too. Sometimes the Rockshox forks need some tlc also. MRP forks are always ready to go...which is nice.

Better to safe than sorry.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Here is what the knock sounded like, tell me what you guys think it is...


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Deflate the fork, milk out the extra air, then inflate. There is a right and wrong way to do this. The procedure is listed out previously in this thread only a page or two ago. This will ensure all of the chambers are filled appropriately. Do that and report back. I'm guessing it'll fix your problem

(incase it's not in the thread... This is the process Ed at Fox gave me. 
-attach shock pump, bleed all the air out of fork very slowly
-next hold down bleed button then slowly compress the fork (you'll hear air going out) all the way down. At the bottom release the button and slowly pull the fork all the way out. Do this a bunch of times as it'll remove air from both chambers. Kind of a reverse milking
-next add air in about 15psi at a time. Each time, slowly compress the upper portions of travel a bunch of times. When compressing the first inch or so, you will hear the neg chamber equalize as the piston passes by the equalization dimple. Do that each time until you hit your target psi.

-I would open all dampers up for this process.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

senorbanana said:


> Here is what the knock sounded like, tell me what you guys think it is...


Could be the top out spring. Maybe do the video again and put the device on a stable surface, it's hard to define exactly when the noise is happening because it's jumping around so much.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Quick update on my 2019 36 grip2
All fluids where at the recommended levels and the negative chamber was clear of grease. Perfect factory assembly.
Installed a Vorsprung Luftkappe and removed 2 out of 3 spacers. I also cycled the grip2 damper and there was almost zero stiction.
Overall I'm incredibly impressed with the fork.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

mine did that out of the box - send them back


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

svinyard said:


> Deflate the fork, milk out the extra air, then inflate. There is a right and wrong way to do this. The procedure is listed out previously in this thread only a page or two ago. This will ensure all of the chambers are filled appropriately...


It's pretty simple. There are two chambers, they equalize in pressure when the piston passes the equalization port. The only reason to go in increments is that it can be tough to compress the fork to the equalization point (which is near full extension) if there is too much pressure in the positive chamber, or extend the fork to the equalization point if there's too much in the neg chamber. As long as you can get the fork to go through the equalization point, you're fine.

Equalization will cause the pressure to drop in whichever chamber had higher pressure, so you need to move the fork through the equalization point a time or two when setting final pressure.


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 10, 2004)

Could someone measure an air shaft (18/19) so I can be certain what travel I have with my current shaft? If I had the measurement of just the gold air shaft (without the nut), or even from the roll pin hole to the bottom of the gold air shaft. One of these along with the known, stated travel of your shaft would allow me to determine what I have.

One would think you could find this by searching around the 'net, but I have come up empty after wasting several hours. Hence, my plea to my fellow mtbr'ers.

Many thanks to someone who has one lying around and could help me out.

AM.


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## BigJZ74 (Jul 18, 2010)

Attacking Mid said:


> Could someone measure an air shaft (18/19) so I can be certain what travel I have with my current shaft? If I had the measurement of just the gold air shaft (without the nut), or even from the roll pin hole to the bottom of the gold air shaft. One of these along with the known, stated travel of your shaft would allow me to determine what I have.
> 
> One would think you could find this by searching around the 'net, but I have come up empty after wasting several hours. Hence, my plea to my fellow mtbr'ers.
> 
> ...


Can't you input ur tune code into Fox's website? MyGrip 2 has a 170mm chassis with a 160mm air shaft so at full compression I have 10mm of exposed stanchions.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Yeah just type in ur code from the fork into the fox serial check and it will tell u everything


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 10, 2004)

Nope. I don't have the original fork, I only have the air shaft and don't know what the travel is. Was hoping someone had one laying on their workbench and could take a quick measure.

AM.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

If you want to know the travel of an air shaft. 
Move the bottom seal all the way down the shaft so the bottom is even with top of the foot at the very end.
Make sure the bottom out bumper is against the top seal head.
Measure from the top of the bottom seal to the bottom of the top out bumper.
Blammo


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 10, 2004)

If only I had all those parts. I have the shaft, bottom seal, and a Vorsprung Luftkappe piston. No top out bumper. So I guess if I knew the length of the top out bumper I could back into it. I'd rather just know the shaft length.

AM.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Attacking Mid said:


> Could someone measure an air shaft (18/19) so I can be certain what travel I have with my current shaft? If I had the measurement of just the gold air shaft (without the nut), or even from the roll pin hole to the bottom of the gold air shaft. One of these along with the known, stated travel of your shaft would allow me to determine what I have.
> 
> One would think you could find this by searching around the 'net, but I have come up empty after wasting several hours. Hence, my plea to my fellow mtbr'ers.
> 
> ...


On my '18 36 RC2 29er 160mm shaft, the distance from roll pin to end of shaft is about 258mm. Total length with piston is 267mm.


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 10, 2004)

Any chance you could tell me the length from the center of the roll pin to the end of the gold part of the shaft. I don't have the end pieces at the bottom of the shaft. I tried to extrapolate from your picture, but things get distorted at the sides of a photo.

Thanks for trying, though!

AM.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Attacking Mid said:


> Any chance you could tell me the length from the center of the roll pin to the end of the gold part of the shaft. I don't have the end pieces at the bottom of the shaft. I tried to extrapolate from your picture, but things get distorted at the sides of a photo.
> 
> Thanks for trying, though!
> 
> AM.


230mm.

I thought the threads were part of the gold shaft. I see now they're not.


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 10, 2004)

SoCal-Rider said:


> 230mm.
> 
> I thought the threads were part of the gold shaft. I see now they're not.


Thanks, man! Mine is 220mm, so now I know it's a 150mm travel shaft. Really appreciate the help!

AM.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Just got my fork back, no knock and 16 clicks. Took 5 days since I sent it out


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

*Works good, stoked*


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

*Travel Question*

I'm having trouble using the last 25-30mm of travel; I have never gotten through my full travel even though I should have.

I'm on a 180mm fork with 2 volume spacers at 60 psi. I weigh 90kg. Thoughts? Suggestions?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Wacha Wacha Wacha said:


> I'm having trouble using the last 25-30mm of travel; I have never gotten through my full travel even though I should have.
> 
> I'm on a 180mm fork with 2 volume spacers at 60 psi. I weigh 90kg. Thoughts? Suggestions?


Take out a spacer. Takes 5 minutes, should give you another 15mm of travel or more used. You might also drop your psi.

Did you watch Mr. Losts video on setting it up? That helps as well. You can prob drop psi a bit if that doesn't cut it


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

svinyard said:


> Take out a spacer. Takes 5 minutes, should give you another 15mm of travel or more used. You might also drop your psi.
> 
> Did you watch Mr. Losts video on setting it up? That helps as well. You can prob drop psi a bit if that doesn't cut it


I had 1 spacer in at about 80 psi but didn't feel like I was getting enough support at the top of the stroke and I was getting a lot of brake dive. Maybe I'll take out some more pressure...

I haven't seen the set up video. You tube Mr. Losts?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Wacha Wacha Wacha said:


> I haven't seen the set up video. You tube Mr. Losts?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Try following Yetis recommended setup. They have a configurator sorta that let's you input your weight for their SB150 which uses this fork.

If you aren't getting enough support at the end of the stroke... it could be your HSC and HSR (def try using fully open/fast HSR). Psi will help control how much travel you use, the clicks will help keep the support high enough at the right portions.


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## tw!stedAxle (Aug 17, 2017)

Anyone who has done just a lower leg service on the Grip2, can you list the correct oil and seal kit? I can't find anything for the 2019 Grip2 on the fox website. Is it just FOX 20wt, Gold for both sides?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=987

I like the push seals the best. They are the same for all years of 36 and don't need a seal press. SKF green seals are also better than SKF black OEM ones

https://www.jensonusa.com/SKF-Fox-Seal-Kit


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

tw!stedAxle said:


> Anyone who has done just a lower leg service on the Grip2, can you list the correct oil and seal kit? I can't find anything for the 2019 Grip2 on the fox website. Is it just FOX 20wt, Gold for both sides?


Fox Teflon oil on damper side. Fox gold on air side.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

tw!stedAxle said:


> Anyone who has done just a lower leg service on the Grip2, can you list the correct oil and seal kit? I can't find anything for the 2019 Grip2 on the fox website. Is it just FOX 20wt, Gold for both sides?


Oil chart:
https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=987

40cc 5wt teflon infused oil for the GRIP damper-side lower leg bath. 20wt Gold for the air side (10cc lower leg) and FIT4 cartridge versions.


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

Ok so I’ve watched the Video and set my sag up differently with less air pressure.

When is was setting up the sag, I noticed I had to extend the fork slightly when taking my measurement, maybe 6-10mm. Is this normal?? What is this called? When I measure my sag, should I measure fully extended or with the bike simply at rest (losing the 6-10mm already sucked in)?

Also, I went on to setup the rebound and noticed that I don’t seem to have independent HSR and LSR. I have 8 clicks period. I mean if I turn the LSR 8 clicks, I have 0 HSR clicks, vise verse as well. That is not right at all, they should be independent, right??? (Note, per the video, my HSC and LSC is wide open/counterclockwise - different from the Fox Manual!)

Thanks guys!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Wacha Wacha Wacha said:


> Ok so I've watched the Video and set my sag up differently with less air pressure.
> 
> When is was setting up the sag, I noticed I had to extend the fork slightly when taking my measurement, maybe 6-10mm. Is this normal?? What is this called? When I measure my sag, should I measure fully extended or with the bike simply at rest (losing the 6-10mm already sucked in)?
> 
> ...


Are you sure hours is grip2 and not grip?


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

teK-- said:


> Are you sure hours is grip2 and not grip?


100% sure - sticker included!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

Hi all....

Im after a 29er fox 36 with a 44m offset. Like....

http://www.silverfish-uk.com/produc...GRiP2-Tapered-Fork-2019-29-quot-170mm-KA-44mm

I think they only come as a 170 fork. Could this be changed to 150 with an air shaft kit?

Ive change a 170 to 180 on a 2017 by removing a spacer so know how to fiddle around in there but not sure how to lower rather than raise travel.

Any help appreciated.


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

So I contacted Fox who weren’t aware/heard of a problem like this (my rebound problem) on the forks. I’ll send it in when I go home in January and let you know if I find anything out about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Karve said:


> Hi all....
> 
> Im after a 29er fox 36 with a 44m offset. Like....
> 
> ...


https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/co...fork-29-15x110-44mm-tapered-black-orange-2019

Why not just get the 160mm? If your paying retail fox will sell you whatever color you want.
Yes it's just an air shaft swap.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Wacha Wacha Wacha said:


> So I contacted Fox who weren't aware/heard of a problem like this (my rebound problem) on the forks. I'll send it in when I go home in January and let you know if I find anything out about it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey I have the same issue with the 10mm or so of suck down. I've spent hours on the phone with Ed going through the motions trying to ensure air isn't somewhere it isn't supposed to be. No dice tho. I've sent it in to Fox previously and it remains an issue. I'll be sending it in shortly again now that winter is here and I'll get my HSC/LSC extra clicks fixed as well. Not sure why its sucking down. My fork is on a 150mm spring which Fox ended up installing for me. When I measure my usable travel, I only get like 143-ish mm. That is with the bike resting and at 70psi. It shouldn't do that. Maybe a few mm but not 7 to 10 or more. Of note is that I'm def measuring from the usable travel point just above the Kashima logo...not the top of the stantion. It can change a bit if I cycle the fork.

Regarding your rebound issue, the rebound cap is probably just installed a bit off. It only takes a second and a 2mm hex iirc to remove it and put it back on. just don't lose the spring washer that sits between the two caps and has a little oil on it.


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

svinyard said:


> Hey I have the same issue with the 10mm or so of suck down. I've spent hours on the phone with Ed going through the motions trying to ensure air isn't somewhere it isn't supposed to be. No dice tho. I've sent it in to Fox previously and it remains an issue. I'll be sending it in shortly again now that winter is here and I'll get my HSC/LSC extra clicks fixed as well. Not sure why its sucking down. My fork is on a 150mm spring which Fox ended up installing for me. When I measure my usable travel, I only get like 143-ish mm. That is with the bike resting and at 70psi. It shouldn't do that. Maybe a few mm but not 7 to 10 or more. Of note is that I'm def measuring from the usable travel point just above the Kashima logo...not the top of the stantion. It can change a bit if I cycle the fork.
> 
> Regarding your rebound issue, the rebound cap is probably just installed a bit off. It only takes a second and a 2mm hex iirc to remove it and put it back on. just don't lose the spring washer that sits between the two caps and has a little oil on it.


svinyard - so you already sent it in and the fork still has problems? Did it come back to you repaired? I didn't notice the suck down (there's gotta be a term for this??) until after a few rides but I may not have noticed the problem. I guess you make a good point to measure useable sag only. Maybe I'll try to bleed out some air with a zip-tie at the seal... I've heard this may correct it (I've never had this issue before).

My rebound issue is annoying, especially since no one has dealt with it before. I guess it's a good thing if it's not a common problem just sucks for me. I have removed the LSR cap and reinstalled it previously. The spring washer was lubricated. Perhaps I'll give it another go tonight for sh!ts 'n grins.

Stay tuned... Thanks for the response.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I tried all the ziptie stuff etc. Nothing has helped. Now I don't think its a huge deal but I'll get it fixed regardless because I want it at 150mm and I want the clicks fixed anyways. Rebound sounds weird man. Getting the nut put on correctly isn't exactly rocket science so i'm guessing you've done it right and it may just be jacked up for you. Def keep us posted.


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## cws196 (Apr 12, 2010)

Do the GRIP2 dampers (aftermarket upgrade) come pre-filled with oil and are ready-to-go?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

cws196 said:


> Do the GRIP2 dampers (aftermarket upgrade) come pre-filled with oil and are ready-to-go?


They should as all the fit dampers do.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


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## PopFiske (Dec 13, 2018)

Ok. So I just recieved my Grip 2 aswell. Never used. Started clicking the HSC and LSC for fun haha. Not fun anymore.. 

Well. I read here that many have problems with to many clicks of HSC. Mine have a stop when the HSC are open, when I am clicking it towards closed, it never stops, but after 17-18 ish clicks it gets harder to twist. Am I damaging anything when I am twisting the knob over the 0.2 NM that Fox suggest? 

And the LSC, I am there getting 14 clicks now. I can hear the clicks "loudly" in the end of both open and closed position, but between I can barely feel the clicks.. But, I am 100% it got 14 clicks. But it goes to full stop and both ends.


I've read through maybe a little bit over half of this thread. What conclusion have people made?


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## PopFiske (Dec 13, 2018)

Got an answer from Fox Norway now.
He says: Fox says LSC is between 12-14 clicks.
And it is normal that twisting the HSC gets harder from 16 clicks--> > from open.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Let all the air out (very slowly), close the LSC mostly so that HSC gets activated sooner and compress the fork a bit. You can adjust the HSC 2 clicks at a time and it'll have a very noticeable effect as it's closer to "closed". It's a good indicator to help you identify "true closed" and not the "dummy clicks".

It's also really interesting as you get to understand a bit how LSC works in tandem with HSC, with HSC being kind of an overflow control for fast compressions when LSC is overwhelmed.


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## Samo831 (Jan 19, 2015)

RBoardman said:


> So after my ride this morning I found that slowing down the high speed rebound (3 clicks from closed) really helped my bike in the rocks. Still running the LSR on the faster side.
> 
> Also added more psi and more LS compression than what I had it set in the garage last night.
> 
> I am going to try and find a different shock pump tonight. I have two Rockshox ones and they both read 7-10 psi different, so don't really trust either.


Hey RBoardman - thanks for this bit of advice. I'm similar weight (153), riding a similar bike (2019 Patrol Carbon), on similar trails (also in Santa Cruz). With the Fox recommended settings, I was having the same issues - front wheel deflecting off rocks making things a bit sketch. I addd a couple tokens, dropped the PSI, and made HSR slower (4 clicks from closed). Difference was night and day. So currently my settings are:

LSC 5 from closed (all the way stiff)
HSC 13 from closed
LSR 6 from closed (all the way closed)
HSR 4 from closed 
PSI 56
Two spacers

I'm pretty happy with this, but curious where you ended up on your settings give the similarities in what and where we ride and our weight?

Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dash8driver (Mar 17, 2018)

I’ll try out your settings and fine tune from there. I’m roughly 170 with gear 

When you say “ closed” you mean full fast correct? ( locked)

It’s Pretty pathetic on Fox’s part. No good base settings to start from, extra damper clicks, difficulty tuning, inaccurate settings. 

Why release an unpolished product? I’d pay a bit more for a polished product ready to rip out of the box. Which, when you are paying good money, you should get.

The fact that a bike shop had to create an instructional video is pretty sad. IMHO Fox should hire this guy.. 

FYI manitou has guide has which explains these functions clearly. C’mon fox!

I’m buying a product to ride hard in **** conditions.. I expect the fork to perform. I don’t need a 1,000 dollar wall ornament


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Dash8driver said:


> I'll try out your settings and fine tune from there. I'm roughly 170 with gear
> 
> When you say " closed" you mean full fast correct? ( locked)
> 
> ...


Full closed means full slow/firm. Generally fully clockwise except in the cases such as DVO they have anti-clockwise as fully closed, for their LSC setings.

Fox released a great product with a very high level of tunability. It is not meant to be EASY to setup, or for those who don't want to take the time to learn how to properly tune the settings. If you want a lazy to set up fork then buy something like a GRIP damper fork or Fit4.

I've used Fox, Rockshox, DVO, Cane Creek and can say this fairly objectively.


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## Dash8driver (Mar 17, 2018)

Thanks for your feedback!

As evidenced in this thread some people have different definitions of “ closed.”

I can have snow 365 days a year in my locale. Therefore. “ grip” is pretty damn important. 

Right now I’m riding on ice covered off camber steeps infested with ice covered roots and rocks. Not an ideal place to have a fork deflecting everywhere..Also, its a less than an ideal place to be shooting in the dark. Oh. I forgot, I also am usually night riding due to a lack of daylight..I’m also sick of cleaning my shorts 

I want the tune ability which is why I went for the fork. I’ve also never used a climb switch.. I don’t care about the ups..Just give me a good base to start from when I’m already on slippery ground.. no pun intended!.. 

I don’t get how asking for good base settings are so much to ask for... 

Happy trails !


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dash8driver said:


> Thanks for your feedback!
> 
> As evidenced in this thread some people have different definitions of " closed."
> 
> I can have snow 365 days a year in my locale. Therefore. " grip" is pretty damn important.


Where is that?


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

My guess would be Antarctica


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Dash8driver said:


> I'll try out your settings and fine tune from there. I'm roughly 170 with gear
> 
> When you say " closed" you mean full fast correct? ( locked)
> 
> ...


Closed is full hard

Most adjusters out there are only effective for a certain percentage of their range, to me fox are just straight up about it, as opposed to other times when a company claims to have 14 clicks of adjustment but only 8 do anything, which in my opinion creates more confusion after you've moved an adjuster 6 clicks and nothings different


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Yeah. They work kinda like a water faucet; big changes in flow near closed and not much if any change in flow near fully open. That's one reason why it's usually recommended to count clicks from fully closed rather than fully open.


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## glader60 (May 4, 2006)

Dash8driver said:


> I'll try out your settings and fine tune from there. I'm roughly 170 with gear
> 
> When you say " closed" you mean full fast correct? ( locked)
> 
> ...


Yikes! I read the instructions and it easily got me a base setting to adjust to my liking from there.

Sounds like you wanted a point and shoot type of setup, you''d have been better off with a FIT4 that takes less fiddling.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Closed is full hard
> 
> Most adjusters out there are only effective for a certain percentage of their range, to me fox are just straight up about it, as opposed to other times when a company claims to have 14 clicks of adjustment but only 8 do anything, which in my opinion creates more confusion after you've moved an adjuster 6 clicks and nothings different


Sort of. Full hard is not the "only" closed option tho. Those first 3 or 4 clicks from closed are all the same. This is why Fox specifies the whole "close to 2nm" stuff. Its really to just keep clicking towards closed even tho it's entirely redudant and technically a dead spot. This is the main issue. There are dead spots on both sides (open and closed).


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

svinyard said:


> Sort of. Full hard is not the "only" closed option tho. Those first 3 or 4 clicks from closed are all the same. This is why Fox specifies the whole "close to 2nm" stuff. Its really to just keep clicking towards closed even tho it's entirely redudant and technically a dead spot. This is the main issue. There are dead spots on both sides (open and closed).


Closed is where the adjuster stops, I can assure you the damping is changing through those clicks too

Regardless, you ALWAYS count from where the adjuster stops as it is the only definite point you can count back from


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

How are you sure that those first 3 or 4 clicks from closed are different?? What is your test?


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## glader60 (May 4, 2006)

svinyard said:


> How are you sure that those first 3 or 4 clicks from closed are different?? What is your test?


The easiest way to tell how the clicks effect the shock is to remove most of the air, then cycle shock and change clicks, you will then be able to tell a gradual change, especially when closer to the closed position. If you don't feel a change, then your shock may need work.

Maybe Fox should have given less and more distinct clicks so people could tell a bigger difference between each click? Oh, but then that would have reduced the amount of very fine tuning.....


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

svinyard said:


> How are you sure that those first 3 or 4 clicks from closed are different?? What is your test?


With my suspension dyno.

Each line is -3 clicks change, and it shows that it works as advertised, you have about 16 useable clicks, all starting from closed.

Everyone is overthinking this, the "using 2Nm" for turning the knob is just to prevent people from forcing and damaging the adjuster, not as a way to define the end point


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## glader60 (May 4, 2006)

JohnnyC7 said:


> With my suspension dyno.
> 
> Each line is -3 clicks change, and it shows that it works as advertised, you have about 16 useable clicks, all starting from closed.
> 
> ...


Great data and conclusive that the adjustment does what its suppose to do. Not sure why people are saying there's no difference with the clicks near closed since I can feel the difference as well as your graph clearly shows the difference.

I agree with the closed point, just turn until there's resistance then you know its closed, no need to force it past there, then just count clicks, it's not difficult.

I can't believe most of this thread is about where the closed position is and if it's clockwise or counter clockwise, wow.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> With my suspension dyno.
> 
> Each line is -3 clicks change, and it shows that it works as advertised, you have about 16 useable clicks, all starting from closed.
> 
> ...


Hey Johnny thanks. This is really helpful. My concern is that my rudimentary test kind of mimic'd what others had thought. I let the air out of the fork, cranked up the LSC all the way closed (to force the HSC to work more predominantly) and then cycled the fork starting from all the way closed. I didn't notice any difference at all with the first 3 clicks until the 4th one where it seemed to be open and the damper was functioning. It was a noticeable change where as the first clicks seemingly did nothing.

That being said, I'm happy to see some real data coming from a dyno as that's obviously a real test. Thanks for taking the time!


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

svinyard said:


> Hey Johnny thanks. This is really helpful. My concern is that my rudimentary test kind of mimic'd what others had thought. I let the air out of the fork, cranked up the LSC all the way closed (to force the HSC to work more predominantly) and then cycled the fork starting from all the way closed. I didn't notice any difference at all with the first 3 clicks until the 4th one where it seemed to be open and the damper was functioning. It was a noticeable change where as the first clicks seemingly did nothing.
> 
> That being said, I'm happy to see some real data coming from a dyno as that's obviously a real test. Thanks for taking the time!


Just wanted to echo what others had said, it's really hard to tell a difference by just pushing down on fork by hand, to rudimentary like you said. But these small seemingly invisible adjustments do make a difference when riding if you're attuned to it.

Besides that have to just think about what is physically going on. Lsc Adjuster stops when it bottoms out with metal on metal contact. One click out will crack open a tiny space for oil to flow (still will feel "closed"), another click out, a little bigger and so on.. But makes sense that first few clicks from closed will feel heavily restricted at low shaft speed when pushing down by hand.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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## jun4785 (Jan 12, 2019)

hi guys! may i ask help. currently my bike is 2018 giant reign 1. 5, with 2019 fox 36 180mm grip2. can i ask help for the fork settings? my weight is 220 lbs plus gear maybe around 5lbs. i dont do jumps. just mild drops/ roots.
what is a good base settings for the air psi, hsc , lsc and rebound?
thank you


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

This video from Mr Lost Bike Shop is helpful in setting up the Grip2.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

kwapik said:


> This video from Mr Lost Bike Shop is helpful in setting up the Grip2.


The most usefult tip I got from his video was to slow down HSR. Like most people I have never had a fork with this adjustment.

When I was running the recommended amount of HSR the front end was pinging off rocks and roots too much when riding fast. However if hitting bumps on a climb or moving slowly it felt great.

Slowing down the HSR by 3 clicks helped a lot. I care more about having a stable and grippy front end when going fast through the rough, rather than it recovering quickly when I am just coasting along.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Some pointers from a full strip down and measure-up.

__
http://instagr.am/p/Bs6rvfvlPp2/

The HSC adjuster ring only has ~0.8mm of travel. But the shim pack can have as little as 0.2mm of travel before it's slammed against the piston.
The HSC adjuster has dead stroke which doesn't do anything as the ring is trapped against the end of the slots rather than resting on the adjuster rod. The fork I've checked out had 6-7 clicks that did nothing.

One full turn of the HSC adjuster gives you 0.5mm extra preload and one turn is 20 clicks. So if your shim pack only has 0.2mm of movement then you've only got 8 clicks that do anything.

For tuning in rocky terrain I recommend not winding in additional HSR or HSC until LSR and LSC are closed. This gives you a more digressive setup that lets the wheels get up and over rocks in both directions while still absorbing bump energy, giving chassis support and stability.

The opposite (closing HSR and HSC early) makes your fork act more like an orifice damper that has a lot of wallow and a lot of spike. The worst of both worlds in choppy terrain.
But it can work if you run a superstiff spring and are relying on a lot of damping for taking singular big impacts.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Some pointers from a full strip down and measure-up.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bs6rvfvlPp2/
> ...


I finally got around to sending mine back to Fox to get the damper click fix installed and also deal with the 10 to 15mm of travel suck down.

Thanks for the info here. Do you have an idea why my fork would be sucking down and if there is anything to double check?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

svinyard said:


> I finally got around to sending mine back to Fox to get the damper click fix installed and also deal with the 10 to 15mm of travel suck down.
> 
> Thanks for the info here. Do you have an idea why my fork would be sucking down and if there is anything to double check?


Sucking down is almost always a leak past the main air seal. So air leaks from positive to negative and can't leak back.

It could be anything from seal installation (quad-ring rolled) to a defect in the seal or inner stanchion wall.
A careful check of the main air seal and surfaces is the first step.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Dougal said:


> Some pointers from a full strip down and measure-up.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bs6rvfvlPp2/
> ...


Hi Dougal

Just to ensure I am reading your advice correctly; are you suggesting not to run *any* HSR or HSC until LSR and LSC are fully closed?

Just to give an example; I am running HSC fully open, only about 3 clicks of LSC, and LSR fully open. WIth this I am running about 3 clicks of HSR which I felt controlled the violent kickback in rough terrain.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

teK-- said:


> Hi Dougal
> 
> Just to ensure I am reading your advice correctly; are you suggesting not to run *any* HSR or HSC until LSR and LSC are fully closed?


That is how I run in my own suspension. Yes. But I have specific terrain (rocky, chunky) which generates a lot of high shaft speeds.



teK-- said:


> Just to give an example; I am running HSC fully open, only about 3 clicks of LSC, and LSR fully open. WIth this I am running about 3 clicks of HSR which I felt controlled the violent kickback in rough terrain.


Have you tried it the other way with more LSR and less HSR? Is it air pressure too high that you're trying to tame with HSR?
Have a read here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide

The grip2 has a LSR port that is smaller than most so even with LSR wide open it's more closed and controlled than other forks.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Dougal said:


> That is how I run in my own suspension. Yes. But I have specific terrain (rocky, chunky) which generates a lot of high shaft speeds.
> 
> Have you tried it the other way with more LSR and less HSR? Is it air pressure too high that you're trying to tame with HSR?
> Have a read here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide
> ...


I haven't tried more LSR and less HSR yet.

My rationale is on rocky chunky terrain I want no HSC , but some HSR to stop the fork extending too quickly. If the fork extends too quickly I found it was kicking back when hitting consecutive bumps, but by running a few clicks of HSR it allowed the wheel to sail over the bumps.

On the other hand, the reason why I run no LSR is because I like the poppy feeling when on flowy tracks and when taking off the lip of jumps etc.

For reference I am 71kg ready to ride, and run 52psi in a 170mm fork with no tokens. Only on the hardest hucks do I get close to using full travel.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Too much HSR makes the fork too slow to extend and recover from each impact. Especially when it's unloaded. 

Stability comes from LSR. Too little LSR and the fork floats and wallows.

I haven't been able to test ride a Grip2 yet. Combination of time, availability and steerer tube length.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Both rebound circuits have a really useful range, and my method is to set the hsr to your weight/spring pressure then leave it and adjust the lsr to your taste. Fox’s recommended hsr settings are pretty much spot on to make sure it can control the return force of the spring. Maybe 1 click more open for faster, chunkier terrain. The lsr then has a good range to shift the curve up or down as you feel necessary.

Even the hardest hsr setting is softer than the stock shim stacks from the previous generation 

On the compression side, the lsc knob is hugely dependent on your hsc setting so if the hsc is open then Lsc has little or no effect. The hsc valve will open at very low force anyway so I recommend leaving lsc in the middle and dialling in hsc first to get appropriate bump control then you can tweak lsc if you need any more stability/compliance. Between 6 and 12 clicks out seems to be the useful range, harder than that will likely be very harsh and softer doesn’t change anything 

If you try setting lsc before hsc you won’t be making any real change which just makes the process confusing


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Both rebound circuits have a really useful range, and my method is to set the hsr to your weight/spring pressure then leave it and adjust the lsr to your taste. Fox's recommended hsr settings are pretty much spot on to make sure it can control the return force of the spring. Maybe 1 click more open for faster, chunkier terrain. The lsr then has a good range to shift the curve up or down as you feel necessary.
> 
> Even the hardest hsr setting is softer than the stock shim stacks from the previous generation
> 
> ...


HSR and HSC adjustments only increase the maximum range of LSR and LSC adjusters. There is no reason nor logical method to set them before setting LSR and LSC.

Attempting to set HSR/HSC first is pointless and only results in tuning the fork to run in bypass mode more (which is the sucky quadratic part) and using the shim stacks (the good bits) less. There is no open/close of the HSC/HSR. That's not how they work at all.

Perhaps read this: http://www.shockcraft.co.nz/media/wysiwyg/shockcraft_1_page_suspension_setup_guide_v0.pdf


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## Robbeh (Jan 1, 2017)

Thanks for the insightful responses Dougal! Super helpful stuff.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Dougal said:


> HSR and HSC adjustments only increase the maximum range of LSR and LSC adjusters. There is no reason nor logical method to set them before setting LSR and LSC.
> 
> Attempting to set HSR/HSC first is pointless and only results in tuning the fork to run in bypass mode more (which is the sucky quadratic part) and using the shim stacks (the good bits) less. There is no open/close of the HSC/HSR. That's not how they work at all.
> 
> Perhaps read this: http://www.shockcraft.co.nz/media/wysiwyg/shockcraft_1_page_suspension_setup_guide_v0.pdf


The shim stacks open as soon enough pressure is created, and if HS is set to the minimum it will open before the low speed bleed can generate any meaningful force. Just taking the path of least resistance

Running a closed lsc adjuster only creates extra hysteresis and harshness from a sudden build up/release of pressure but no actual support

I know for a fact if you have HSC set to anything more than 12 clicks out the LSC adjuster does precisely nothing. Even cycling by hand you can feel this from most dampers.

Most "low speed" events occur in the range of velocities after the shims are open so you need to balance the lsc with hsc to get support with making things harsh, which admittedly is difficult with the current external preloader adjusters we have


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

This guy here does a very good job of explaining it - 




you can skip to 10min in if you need

Also you can see from my graph on the previous page that the curve doesn't start to resemble the steep part of a quadratic curve until less than 6 clicks from closed


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Dougal said:


> HSR and HSC adjustments only increase the maximum range of LSR and LSC adjusters. There is no reason nor logical method to set them before setting LSR and LSC.
> 
> Attempting to set HSR/HSC first is pointless and only results in tuning the fork to run in bypass mode more (which is the sucky quadratic part) and using the shim stacks (the good bits) less. There is no open/close of the HSC/HSR. That's not how they work at all.
> 
> Perhaps read this: http://www.shockcraft.co.nz/media/wysiwyg/shockcraft_1_page_suspension_setup_guide_v0.pdf


The shim stacks open as soon enough pressure is created, and if HS is set to the minimum it will open before the low speed bleed can generate any meaningful force. Just taking the path of least resistance

Running a closed lsc adjuster only creates extra hysteresis and harshness from a sudden build up/release of pressure but no actual support

I know for a fact if you have HSC set to anything more than 12 clicks out the LSC adjuster does precisely nothing. Even cycling by hand you can feel this from most dampers.

Most "low speed" events occur in the range of velocities after the shims are open so you need to balance the lsc with hsc to get support with making things harsh, which admittedly is difficult with the current external preloader adjusters we have


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> The shim stacks open as soon enough pressure is created, and if HS is set to the minimum it will open before the low speed bleed can generate any meaningful force. Just taking the path of least resistance
> 
> Running a closed lsc adjuster only creates extra hysteresis and harshness from a sudden build up/release of pressure but no actual support
> 
> ...


Unfortunately that's not how any of that works.

The "path of least resistance" is not the path that has to open shims.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

did we get a definitive answer on the HSC clicks at all??

mines has 22 clicks until 23 feels like its not easy to turn, so to me i think i have 22.

so in lamens terms - am i turning the dial all the way to open (so MINUS on the dial), until it stops.

then clicking out 16 clicks to closed (PLUS on the dial) and that equals fully closed.

now my starting point is recommend ten clicks from full closed, so i am now to click back ten clicks towards open (MINUS on the dial) from the 16 ive just counted closed

and shazam?! that's the recommend setting?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Didzy2009 said:


> did we get a definitive answer on the HSC clicks at all??
> 
> mines has 22 clicks until 23 feels like its not easy to turn, so to me i think i have 22.
> 
> ...


Full closed is clockwise until it stops. This is the max preload and a physical stop. There are 12-16 usable clicks counter clockwise from full close.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

I thought there was only 16 usuable clicks from full open?!?! 22 is just where it stops at as some folks stopped at 32 originally!

confusing as hell!


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Any of you suspension gurus have a link to a picture (schematic, figure, etc..) representation of a LSC and HSC damper that might help me understand exactly how the oil flows through each?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=956
Geek out all you want.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Miker J said:


> Any of you suspension gurus have a link to a picture (schematic, figure, etc..) representation of a LSC and HSC damper that might help me understand exactly how the oil flows through each?











Cross section of the base valve piston from the fox help page

LSC flow is the yellow line and the green needle is what opens and closes the orifice through the centre of the piston bolt

HSC is the orange line that opens the shims and allows oil flow at high speed

You see the blue circle on the left of the piston shows there is a step in the piston? When you turn the hsc dial is presses down the red loader which pushes the centre of the stack in to this "dished" piston, adding preload and increasing the amount of force it takes to open the high speed circuit.

A little different to a standard HSC adjuster which preloads a spring which touches down on the outside edge of the shim stack but again is setting the "blow off" point of the shim stack.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Didzy2009 said:


> did we get a definitive answer on the HSC clicks at all??
> 
> mines has 22 clicks until 23 feels like its not easy to turn, so to me i think i have 22.
> 
> ...


See below. The clicker does nothing but click until it closes down onto the preload collar. The amount of useless clicks will depend on the total tolerance stackup of all the parts.

Once engaged on the collar you've got a usable range until the shim pack is hard up against the piston. See in bold below, this can be as little as 8 clicks from fully closed.



Dougal said:


> Some pointers from a full strip down and measure-up.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bs6rvfvlPp2/
> ...


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> A little different to a standard HSC adjuster which preloads a spring which touches down on the outside edge of the shim stack but again is setting the "blow off" point of the shim stack.


It's exactly the same system shim preload used in the Manitou McLeod rear shocks. Down to the same M3 spigoted grub screws connecting the collar to the hollow adjuster shaft.

But neither are "blow off".


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

JohnnyC7 said:


> View attachment 1235665
> 
> 
> Cross section of the base valve piston from the fox help page
> ...


Excellent. Thanks so much. Just what I was looking for.


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

Dougal said:


> See below. The clicker does nothing but click until it closes down onto the preload collar. The amount of useless clicks will depend on the total tolerance stackup of all the parts.
> 
> Once engaged on the collar you've got a usable range until the shim pack is hard up against the piston. See in bold below, this can be as little as 8 clicks from fully closed.


If I understand you correctly, from the point of fully closed/highest preload (0.2 Nm torque clock wise) it's only 0.2 mm until the shimstack is at level with the outer and highest limit of the piston and thereby perpendicular to the shaft axis. It has now 0 preload.
This point is 8 clicks from said fully closed position.

What happens when you go past that point? Can the shimstack move freely on the shaft?


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

Dougal said:


> See below. The clicker does nothing but click until it closes down onto the preload collar. The amount of useless clicks will depend on the total tolerance stackup of all the parts.


The explo view of the valving assy seems to proof your theory.









https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/img/help/page956-LCDG/820-03-530-kit.jpg

Note the "Add or substract valves..."-part on the left.
It's totally different to the RC2 damper's HSC adjuster isn't it?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Dr.Flow said:


> If I understand you correctly, from the point of fully closed/highest preload (0.2 Nm torque clock wise) it's only 0.2 mm until the shimstack is at level with the outer and highest limit of the piston and thereby perpendicular to the shaft axis. It has now 0 preload.
> This point is 8 clicks from said fully closed position.
> 
> What happens when you go past that point? Can the shimstack move freely on the shaft?





Dr.Flow said:


> The explo view of the valving assy seems to proof your theory.
> 
> View attachment 1235948
> 
> ...


There are two limits on the motion of the shim preload collar that affects HSC.

The upper limit (min HSC) is the slots the mounting screws move in. This stops it moving up beyond 0 preload (if everything is in tolerance).
The lower limit (max HSC) is the shim stack hard up against the piston.
Between the two you can have as little as 0.2mm of adjustment.

The upper limit has nothing to do with clicker position. You've got a whole lot of clicks from open that do nothing.

Yes completely different setup to the old FIT RC2.


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

Thx for the reply. What does that mean regarding damping behaviour? Your setup recommendation differs completely from the RC2 one. Why is that so? Piston geometry or what?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Dr.Flow said:


> Thx for the reply. What does that mean regarding damping behaviour? Your setup recommendation differs completely from the RC2 one. Why is that so? Piston geometry or what?


I was meaning a different physical setup. My setup-tuning methods are the same for all.

The FIT-RC2 HSC adjuster brings in an additional coil spring to preload the shims. This one adds preload to your existing stack. Like the Manitou Mattoc and McLeod dampers do.

There are pros and cons to both setups. But I generally prefer the method of preloading the shims.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

Just installed a luftkappe in my new 2019 grip2 170mm ...look at all that lube. They said it wasnt as bad as others seen..









Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

yeti575inCA said:


> Just installed a luftkappe in my new 2019 grip2 170mm ...look at all that lube. They said it wasnt as bad as others seen..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks
That's actually pretty good at least all the excess is in the positive chamber


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## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

Dougal said:


> That is how I run in my own suspension. Yes. But I have specific terrain (rocky, chunky) which generates a lot of high shaft speeds.
> 
> Have you tried it the other way with more LSR and less HSR? Is it air pressure too high that you're trying to tame with HSR?
> Have a read here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide
> ...


When you say "more lsr and less hsr" do you mean more or less clicks from fully closed? Or clicks from fully open? I always get confused by this... (more rebound damping, or more actual rebound?)


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

matt.s67 said:


> When you say "more lsr and less hsr" do you mean more or less clicks from fully closed? Or clicks from fully open? I always get confused by this... (more rebound damping, or more actual rebound?)


I'm talking about damping. More LSR is more LSR damping. etc.


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## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

Thanks!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Dougal said:


> I'm talking about damping. More LSR is more LSR damping. etc.


That means you are adding clicks to "closed"/Slow direction. Its just restricting oil flow (thus slowing it down) and damping the system. I've found that I have my HSR completely open or close to and the LSR a couple clicks open from the middle of the range. I think this is inline with what you mentioned earlier Dougal regarding the rebounding port being pretty small/damped more so than others...hence leaving it a bit more on the open side helps.


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## ben_mtb (Feb 23, 2018)

Dougal said:


> ...
> 
> The HSC adjuster ring only has ~0.8mm of travel. But the shim pack can have as little as 0.2mm of travel before it's slammed against the piston.
> The HSC adjuster has dead stroke which doesn't do anything as the ring is trapped against the end of the slots rather than resting on the adjuster rod. The fork I've checked out had 6-7 clicks that did nothing.
> ...


Hey Dougal,
I wanted to clarify something based on your older post. When fox manual says the following:



> Add or subtract valves to achieve 14-18 high speed compression detent clicks (full open to full closed)


do they mean that shim stack height should be such that valve loader can put 0 to 14-18 clicks of real usable preload? So the real adjustment range should be 0 - 14-18?

It does not refer to the adjuster clicks, which can have 22 or 32 clicks, of which some are just "dead stroke", right?

So (if I got this correctly) in your case, if shim stack has 0.2mm movement, you could reduce it by another 0.2-0.3 mm to make the real usable click range 18 clicks, correct?
Thanks!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ben_mtb said:


> Hey Dougal,
> I wanted to clarify something based on your older post. When fox manual says the following:
> 
> do they mean that shim stack height should be such that valve loader can put 0 to 14-18 clicks of real usable preload? So the real adjustment range should be 0 - 14-18?
> ...


14-18 was not the case for the fork I had when it arrived. It may have been a spec change after more testeing. Yes you can remove stop washers to gain more adjuster stroke, but too far and you'll risk fatigue failure of the shims (like the DPS shock).

If you're running HSC full closed you probably need to step up to a firmer stack with more shims.


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## paddy73 (Oct 13, 2007)

How is the luftkappe going? Are you getting full travel easy enough at 170mm?
Thanks


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Informative Fox video explaining the GRIP2 damper:


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

Hi there guys,
I am having a “clunk” noise from my Fork 36 grip2 19, it only happens when extending the fork (when I pull the bars for example...)but it’s not because of fast rebound, it’s not topping out and it doesn’t happen all the times I pull the bars...it sounds metallic as if a spring was not seated correctly or something similar.... any idea of what it could be?
Cheers!!


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## stepping-razor (Aug 15, 2008)

dlocki said:


> ive just got a set of Grip2 forks. im about 82kg and have set them up with 1 token and backed off the lsc and hsc 2 click. 76psi - rebound on the base settings and they feel great.
> 
> ive only done two rides on them but so far so good


i am your same weight and ended up in basically the exact same setting. i came to this thread because i was sure that having the hsc with so few clicks from closed would be harsh but it actually feels way more supple on rocks and roots than 10 clicks out, which has me confused!


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## stepping-razor (Aug 15, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Some pointers from a full strip down and measure-up.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bs6rvfvlPp2/
> ...


just to make sure i understand, i need to turno the LSC and LSR fully clockwise, then start to fiddle with HSC and HSR?


----------



## jakster (Feb 5, 2012)

yeti575inCA said:


> Just installed a luftkappe in my new 2019 grip2 170mm ...look at all that lube. They said it wasnt as bad as others seen..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is your feedback on the Luftkappe? Worthy upgrade in terms of small bump compliance? How is the mid-stroke support?


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

jakster said:


> What is your feedback on the Luftkappe? Worthy upgrade in terms of small bump compliance? How is the mid-stroke support?


You need to have at least 1 token you can remove and you lose about 5mm of top out travel as there is now an air top out as apposed to the rubber bumper.

With that out of the way it's better everywhere. Small bump and top of the travel is super plush. There is extra mid stroke support and the fork rides higher in it's travel with about the same PSI. Overall the first 2/3 of the stroke are much more linear and you can feel the increased traction because of it.

I ended up pulling out 2 spacers as the extra support made the ending ramp less needed on the big hits. Also the Luftkappe takes up just over 1 spacers worth of volume.


----------



## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

jakster said:


> What is your feedback on the Luftkappe? Worthy upgrade in terms of small bump compliance? How is the mid-stroke support?


I liked it so much I run in all 3 of my forks. Great midstroke support. Fork rides higher. I am able to run 1 or no tokens and reduce hsc.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Beaker555 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Sucking down is almost always a leak past the main air seal. So air leaks from positive to negative and can't leak back.
> 
> It could be anything from seal installation (quad-ring rolled) to a defect in the seal or inner stanchion wall.
> A careful check of the main air seal and surfaces is the first step.


Hi Dougal, so regarding the suck down, is this an easy fix 
?is it just a matter of pulling apart and replacing some bits and pieces ?
thanks
Cheers


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Beaker555 said:


> Hi Dougal, so regarding the suck down, is this an easy fix
> ?is it just a matter of pulling apart and replacing some bits and pieces ?
> thanks
> Cheers


Yeah, the quad-ring seal around the air piston is the #1 suspect. Sometimes they got rolled over during assembly.


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## Beaker555 (Mar 9, 2019)

Great thanks one day when I get brave enough I will do some investigation work lol 
cheers


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## tuumbaq (Oct 6, 2005)

TamiJean said:


> Also I took this picture of the fork bottomed out with no air. For those not using all the travel this might be way. Idk if there is a little bumper that will compress the rest of the way but here's that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


. Sorry to,resurrect this thread but Im unable tomget full travel, just like your picture, no top air/air or anything but the damper seems to have the uodated amount of clicks....Were you able to get full travel once you got the new damper from Fox?


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Looks normal to have about 5-8mm stanchion showing at bottom out. When my fork is fully extended there is about 178mm showing (170 travel)


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

Same here.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

tuumbaq said:


> . Sorry to,resurrect this thread but Im unable tomget full travel, just like your picture, no top air/air or anything but the damper seems to have the uodated amount of clicks....Were you able to get full travel once you got the new damper from Fox?


I don't think it had anything to do with the damper but rather the rubber bump stop. So with little force it won't go past this point but hit hard enough and it will.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Snowsed341 (Jun 16, 2015)

Hi Fox 36 Users.

I was wondering if riders could start a running list of there settings.

Weight:
Pressure:
Tokens:
HSR:
LSR:
HSC:
LSC:

Thanks


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## paddy73 (Oct 13, 2007)

Don’t forget to add fork travel....


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## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

Travel: 160mm
Weight: 205lb
Pressure: 67psi (per Shockwiz)
Tokens: 3
ALL SETTINGS FROM OPEN
HSR: 5
LSR: 10
HSC: 5
LSC: 5


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## Yeti83 (Feb 29, 2016)

I'm about to change the travel in a Fox 36 160mm (to 170mm) 29" GRIP2 fork. But the videos & the oil chart in the FOX help section isn't saying the same thing so I thought I'd ask before doing anything (wrong).

In the "change air spring"-video it says to use FOX Gold 20 in the damper side lower leg. But the 2019 oil chart & the GRIP service video says to use 5 WT damper fluid in the lower leg. 
If the seal in the damper lets some of the lower leg fluid thru on the shaft it makes sense to go with the 5 WT, but otherwise I can't understand why the Gold 20 isn't used. Which fluid is the right one to use in the damper side lower leg?


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## DNW (Mar 11, 2006)

If its a Grip 2 damper use the 5wt. That first video you included is not a Grip 2 damper.


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## Tom591 (Nov 18, 2018)

Anything new about the travel issue? I'm only getting 152mm instead of 160...not too happy about that.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

paddy73 said:


> Don't forget to add fork travel....


And count clicks from CLOSED please


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> And count clicks from CLOSED please


170mm travel
82kg 
72psi - 42mm sag
0 tokens

HSC12
LSC10
HSR7
LSR6

Skf green seals, Luftkappe, Motorex 4wt oil in damper, Supergliss bath oil

This is the best i could get them to work, after a year of messing ive sold them and gone back to the Diamonds.

For me the small bump isnt that good, great in the middle then too progressive towards the end


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

170 mm travel
65 kg naked
72 psi
2 orange tokens
HSR 5
LSR 6
HSC 7
LSC 7 or 8


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

Dr.Flow said:


> 65 kg naked


I was drinking water when I saw this and you got me wet...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)




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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Frame size - XL Ripmo
Rider weight ready to ride - 190 lb
Rider style - Aggressive with 3 to 4 foot drops
Terrain - Cow hoofed clay with few sharp rocks. Very Very steep, loose and dry.

Setup 1
Fork 2019 Fox 36 grip2 44m Offset 160mm	Fox P/N 910-20-624
Comes with 1 spacer. UPDATED 1-9-19

Air Pressure________61 psi 
Volume Spacers_____3
Sag_______________25% dynamic	
LSR_______________8	
HSR_______________3	
LSC_______________7	
HSC_______________12

Setup 2
Fork 2019 Fox 36 grip2 44m Offset 160mm	Fox P/N 910-20-624
Vorsprung Luftkappe + 1 spacer. 
Push Seals. Couple drops of fox gold in air chamber every month.

Air Pressure________62 psi 
Volume Spacers_____vorsprung luftkappe + 1 spacer
Sag_______________25% dynamic	
LSR_______________8	
HSR_______________2	
LSC_______________7	
HSC_______________12


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> Frame size - XL Ripmo
> Rider weight ready to ride - 190 lb
> Rider style - Aggressive with 3 to 4 foot drops
> Terrain - Cow hoofed clay with few sharp rocks. Very Very steep, loose and dry.
> ...


What's the difference between setup 1 with stock airspring and the Vorsprung one? Is it worth it?


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

svinyard said:


> What's the difference between setup 1 with stock airspring and the Vorsprung one? Is it worth it?


Worth every penny for the Vorsprung upgrade. Soft top out is super plush with near zero friction on the small chatter and increased mid-stroke support. Fork rides higher in it's travel like a coil spring.
You loose 3-4mm of top out since it stops just before the rubber bumper and gain better performance everywhere else. Especially the negative travel back to contact phase is some much smoother, like hitting a small rock that lifts the wheel 1 inch off the ground and sets it back down.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

dlocki said:


> 170mm travel
> 82kg
> 72psi - 42mm sag
> 0 tokens
> ...


This is pretty close to the settings I would recommend for you, although yes a 170+luftkappe is very progressive. Interesting the small bump wasn't there for you, roughly how many hours did you do on the fork?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> Frame size - XL Ripmo
> Rider weight ready to ride - 190 lb
> Rider style - Aggressive with 3 to 4 foot drops
> Terrain - Cow hoofed clay with few sharp rocks. Very Very steep, loose and dry.
> ...


Are you cleaning out the old fox gold before adding more? Any oil in there will build up in the negative chamber and start to impact performance of lose travel if there's too much


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Are you cleaning out the old fox gold before adding more? Any oil in there will build up in the negative chamber and start to impact performance of lose travel if there's too much


I do a full pull apart and clean every 6 months or so and only add a total of 7-8 drops of gold fluid over that time. Total would be less than 1ml. I find that it freshens up the slickoleum which can get displaced.
Agreed that it is a stop gap measure to extend air chamber service intervals and restore great fork feel for awhile.

As a side not the Grip2 damper side ingested most of the lower leg fluid into the damper. I did a brand new initial service with correct fluid levels and one 3 months later The Grip2 damper must not of been fully topped off from the factory. This didn't effect the dampers performance in any way, but it's designed to purge excess fluid, so it need to be completely full to start that process. It's worth checking your lowers levels after month or so or riding.


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## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Under the condition that you count rebound clicks from fully closed most people seem to prefer it a bit slow.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

gpgalanis said:


> Under the condition that you count rebound clicks from fully closed most people seem to prefer it a bit slow.


The amount of overlap between the adjusters makes it difficult to tell how fast/slow a setting is, ie having HSR closed and LSR 8 clicks out would work perfectly fine for me, but HSR -4 and LSR-6 is almost identical too.

LSR is the biggest influence for sure


----------



## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> This is pretty close to the settings I would recommend for you, although yes a 170+luftkappe is very progressive. Interesting the small bump wasn't there for you, roughly how many hours did you do on the fork?


At a rough guess 200+ hours


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## msedly (Sep 21, 2008)

I'll add my $.02 since I've been tuning my fork for the past few weeks now. Last ride ended up with the settings below:

Rider weight - 190 geared up
Fork travel - 150mm
Air pressure - 50 psi
Tokens - 2 orange
HSC - 12
LSC - 6
HSR - 5
LSR - 7
(all from fully closed)

Only complaint at the moment is lack of sensitivity in light chatter and initial impact. I just ordered the Luftkappe and hope to have it installed by this time next week. I think that will get me exactly what I'm looking for.


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## Hejsa (Nov 14, 2018)

Hi, I am now adjusting my new fox 36 Grip 2 fork and would like to ask if the high speed rebound adjuster has a hard stop. Fox manual says that there is a hard stop, but I can turn the HSR adjuster without any stop. Thanks for advices


----------



## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Hejsa said:


> Hi, I am now adjusting my new fox 36 Grip 2 fork and would like to ask if the high speed rebound adjuster has a hard stop. Fox manual says that there is a hard stop, but I can turn the HSR adjuster without any stop. Thanks for advices


It should definitely have a stop


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## Hejsa (Nov 14, 2018)

JohnnyC7 said:


> It should definitely have a stop


Thank you for answer, it is strange, the fork is brand new just unpacked. The LSR adjuster I can turn with the hard stop in both sides, but the HSR asjuster I can turn around n and around...


----------



## CrazyIvan (Aug 4, 2015)

I had the same problem nib. Contact Fox service they will have you send it in and they'll get it fix asap. I think it took them 5 days from me sending it in to me getting it back.


----------



## Hejsa (Nov 14, 2018)

CrazyIvan said:


> I had the same problem nib. Contact Fox service they will have you send it in and they'll get it fix asap. I think it took them 5 days from me sending it in to me getting it back.


Ok, thank you, I will follow your advice.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

msedly said:


> I'll add my $.02 since I've been tuning my fork for the past few weeks now. Last ride ended up with the settings below:
> 
> Rider weight - 190 geared up
> Fork travel - 150mm
> ...


Hey man, that is a crazy light Psi for your weight. I'm the same weight and travel and run around 68 with 1 token. At that low of psi I'd really worry about brake drive and any sort of mid support. Foxes stock setup for our weight is around 75 to 80psi iirc.

I did try going with two spacers and 61psi at one point but it got divy and the ramp up when I cased a big jump was harsh and would make my handlebars tweak.

Sounds like its working for you but does seem odd.


----------



## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

So I've been running anywhere from 64-67psi with 3 volume spacers in my 160mm GRIP2 fork on my Ripmo, I weigh 200lbs. Felt great for the first few weeks, but lately I've noticed that I'm only using about 60% of my travel and it's felt very stiff.

Decided to let all the air out and try 2 spacers with the same pressure, but it blew through the travel very quickly. Went back to 3 spacers with the same pressure (66psi) and same comp/rebound settings, and now it feels fine, like it did before and I'm able to smoothly use all the travel.

Am I crazy or is it possible that my fork got stiff due to some kind of imbalance between the air chambers, or displaced grease of some kind? Really can't figure this one out. I do store my bike hanging from the wheel against my garage wall with the front facing down, if that matters.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Sounds a little odd that its getting stiff with that low of pressure. How are you airing up your fork? I'd drop the air real slow and then air it up appropriately 10 psi at time where you cycle it 10 times and then add another 10psi


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## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

I usually add 20psi, cycle it, then keep adding 10psi/cycling until I'm at my target pressure. 

As I said, since I let all the air out and re-aired it up, it's fine now. Odd.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Sounds like u got pressure in the lower legs. Too much pressure in the negative chamer will make u use more travel.


----------



## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

alexbn921 said:


> Sounds like u got pressure in the lower legs. Too much pressure in the negative chamer will make u use more travel.


How does this happen, and how is it remedied?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

It can leak past the air shaft seal or it can be off gassing from the fluid. Temperature and elevation can effect it too. Lubbing the seal or replacing the o ring should fix it. The zip tie trick can equalize the lower legs, but removing the bottom nut is a better way.
If it happens again let all the air out, remove the air cap and completely compress the fork. It sould be easy to bottom it out with only resistance from the damper ifp spring.


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## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

Temps in FL have been mild, and there's no elevation here...guess it's time for me to learn how to do a fork service, never done one before.


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## msedly (Sep 21, 2008)

svinyard said:


> Hey man, that is a crazy light Psi for your weight. I'm the same weight and travel and run around 68 with 1 token. At that low of psi I'd really worry about brake drive and any sort of mid support. Foxes stock setup for our weight is around 75 to 80psi iirc.
> 
> I did try going with two spacers and 61psi at one point but it got divy and the ramp up when I cased a big jump was harsh and would make my handlebars tweak.
> 
> Sounds like its working for you but does seem odd.


I actually started at 75 psi with no spacers and ended up at 50 psi with two spacers. The high speed chatter at higher pressure was almost unbearable even with all of the HSC dialed out. I ride light for my weight so the numbers aren't that crazy IMO. I'm less of a plow down the hill in a straight line rider, so it works pretty well. I've ordered a Luftkappe so that I can have better sensitivity and mid travel support. We'll see where that gets me...


----------



## Extremo (Apr 1, 2012)

I have a 2015 160mm 36. Are the uppers and lowers the same size as the 180mm 36? I want to buy the Grip2 upgrade, but was hoping to buy a 180mm air spring to turn it into a 180mm fork. Does anyone know if this is possible?


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Extremo said:


> I have a 2015 160mm 36. Are the uppers and lowers the same size as the 180mm 36? I want to buy the Grip2 upgrade, but was hoping to buy a 180mm air spring to turn it into a 180mm fork. Does anyone know if this is possible?


I would contact fox with your fork serial number. They changed the air spring side and you may or not need a new air shaft. The Grip2 should fit and just drop right in.


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## Gregor78 (Apr 19, 2019)

Can anyone can shed some light on this issue? 
Bought new 36 grip 2, 160mm 29er 2019 on the box.
When I measure the travel it’s almost at 180mm total stantion length. When I measure where it top outs out using the o-ring it’s approx 170mm.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Gregor78 said:


> Can anyone can shed some light on this issue?
> Bought new 36 grip 2, 160mm 29er 2019 on the box.
> When I measure the travel it's almost at 180mm total stantion length. When I measure where it top outs out using the o-ring it's approx 170mm.


I'm confused, are you saying that you believe the exposed stanchion on a fork=the total travel?


----------



## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

msedly said:


> I actually started at 75 psi with no spacers and ended up at 50 psi with two spacers. The high speed chatter at higher pressure was almost unbearable even with all of the HSC dialed out. I ride light for my weight so the numbers aren't that crazy IMO. I'm less of a plow down the hill in a straight line rider, so it works pretty well. I've ordered a Luftkappe so that I can have better sensitivity and mid travel support. We'll see where that gets me...


svinyard definitely has a good point. I'm a touch lighter than you and run more pressure on my softest setup (changes depending on venue, race, etc). You're looking for midstroke support but man at that weight you're likely sitting at midstroke just with sag when riding anything other than just cruising along. Even another 10 psi could make a nice difference for you with the ride characteristics of the fork.

That said I also have the luftkappe, 100% recommend on these forks.


----------



## Gregor78 (Apr 19, 2019)

Okay, im not sure how to add an image which would explain thing clearly , i bought a 160mm travel fork from the fox distributor and there is 180mm of exposed stantion tube and 170mm of usable travel(measured using the o ring)
Definitely taking the fork back next week to the distributor to address the issue.


----------



## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

Looks like someone messed up there and you got a 170mm fork mate! Seen it happen before, no real obvious way to tell upon a glancing inspection.

Not sure why people keep making a deal out of this, but it is entirely normal for some forks to NOT use the whole stanchion, sometimes there is a bit (10mm is totally fine) leftover at full travel usage.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Gregor78 said:


> Okay, im not sure how to add an image which would explain thing clearly , i bought a 160mm travel fork from the fox distributor and there is 180mm of exposed stantion tube and 170mm of usable travel(measured using the o ring)
> Definitely taking the fork back next week to the distributor to address the issue.


Did you ever look up the Fox four digit code off the back of the stanchion to determine what you have?


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Gregor78 said:


> Okay, im not sure how to add an image which would explain thing clearly , i bought a 160mm travel fork from the fox distributor and there is 180mm of exposed stantion tube and 170mm of usable travel(measured using the o ring)
> Definitely taking the fork back next week to the distributor to address the issue.


Def a 170mm fork. You'll have around 10-12mm of exposed stantion when topping out...tho maybe less with 180mm spring. You'll want to get that worked out.


----------



## Gregor78 (Apr 19, 2019)

Yes, checked the website and it says it’s a 160mm. Reason for posting this issue is because I thought it may be an negative spring air issue allowing more travel.


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Has anyone saw or maybe there is separate thread regarding F36 2020.
Im interested in new/upgraded painting.


----------



## CrazyIvan (Aug 4, 2015)

Unless I missed a press release you're a few weeks early.


----------



## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

CrazyIvan said:


> Unless I missed a press release you're a few weeks early.


https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr..._tiD61QUmR3rKORJVrp-UKRln7h6cd9hoCmDkQAvD_BwE


----------



## tuskenraider (Sep 9, 2012)

Placek said:


> Has anyone saw or maybe there is separate thread regarding F36 2020.
> Im interested in new/upgraded painting.


I have one coming on a bike build. I have not heard of any design changes and I was told by Fanatik bike Fox is doing a move of their warehouse from Cali to Nevada, so availability is a bit unknown.


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

rccp said:


> https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr..._tiD61QUmR3rKORJVrp-UKRln7h6cd9hoCmDkQAvD_BwE


Thanks.
Changes hard to notice


----------



## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

Placek said:


> Thanks.
> Changes hard to notice


Look at the axle clamps...


----------



## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

Dr.Flow said:


> Look at the axle clamps...


Hey mate those are just the normal 20 mm ones they have in the close up, someone goofed putting that there


----------



## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

afalts said:


> Hey mate those are just the normal 20 mm ones they have in the close up, someone goofed putting that there


That was my thought as well.


----------



## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


----------



## Riding Blind (Jan 8, 2018)

Pulled my fork apart after two rides to check the amount of grease in the air side and below is what was included from fox. There was a large amount in the uppers and lowers as well. The dust seals were also closer to being dry than wet as well. I cleaned everything put a small coat of lubricant back on and threw in some new dust seals and wipers.


----------



## Erlendking (Aug 30, 2018)

Hi, i have been running a 2019 fox 36 grip2 160mm for a while now, and i am struggling to find the right setup. I weigh 60kgs (132lbs). I serviced my forks only a few days ago, and removed a decent amount of grease from both sides of the air piston, replaced the oil, resoaked the foamrings and lubed the seals, which were almost completely dry. The fork somehow feels less sensitive, almost "notchy", when applying a static load and gradually increasing until the stiction breaks. I will add that the fork also seems to be slightly noisier, making a "sucking" sound when extending.

Last ride i was running:

from closed:
1 token
58 psi
10LSR
8HSR
9LSC
12HSC

The fork felt absolutely horrible on rough sections, and my arms and hands were totally beaten up from only a short descent. I used about 80-90% travel when jumping around, which felt great.

After reading this thread i have changed my settings to this, which i will be trying out later this week:

from closed:
2 tokens
55psi
8LSR
7HSR
10LSC
16HSC

Anyobody know anything i could change to improve how the fork feels in the rough?
Also what might have happened making the fork less sensitive after the service, does it just need to get ridden in? Have equalised air pressures when inflating.


----------



## davidsthubbins (Dec 14, 2009)

Fox Yeti and Pivot are now all in agreement with HSC saying adjust from fully closed (Pivot used to be from open). 

But what is fully closed? Is it fully wrenched clockwise until it won't turn anymore? Is it clockwise until it gets hard to turn? Is it 18 clicks from open as Ed from Fox is saying? 

Updated manual say until it comes to a "gentle stop". Not sure what that means... Does that mean until it gets harder to turn? Mine gets harder to turn at around 26 clicks from open, but I feel like it will never come to a complete "stop". I didn't try past 30 clicks because it was way hard to turn, but I bet it would keep turning.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

davidsthubbins said:


> Fox Yeti and Pivot are now all in agreement with HSC saying adjust from fully closed (Pivot used to be from open).
> 
> But what is fully closed? Is it fully wrenched clockwise until it won't turn anymore? Is it clockwise until it gets hard to turn? Is it 18 clicks from open as Ed from Fox is saying?
> 
> Updated manual say until it comes to a "gentle stop". Not sure what that means... Does that mean until it gets harder to turn? Mine gets harder to turn at around 26 clicks from open, but I feel like it will never come to a complete "stop". I didn't try past 30 clicks because it was way hard to turn, but I bet it would keep turning.


Stop over thinking this and just turn it to closed! Don't swing on it, just turn it until you feel like you have turned a bottle top onto the top of a bottle firm enough that no liquid comes out.


----------



## davidsthubbins (Dec 14, 2009)

robmac48 said:


> Stop over thinking this and just turn it to closed! Don't swing on it, just turn it until you feel like you have turned a bottle top onto the top of a bottle firm enough that no liquid comes out.


Thank you for a perfect example of why people are overthinking this. A bottle top comes to a stop...I stop screwing a bottle top on when it stops, do you stop earlier!? My HSC isn't a bottle top that screws on...it's a series of clicks that get progressively harder to turn. Throw in Fox's instructions about a gentle stop and in-lb/nm readings, not to mention the conflicting statements from Foxs' own techs and you see the confusion.


----------



## Kelvinbenedictmtb (May 10, 2019)

I have a luftkappe coming in the mail and I was wondering if anyone else who had gotten one had changed their fork settings when they put it in? More pressure? More tokens?


----------



## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

Kelvinbenedictmtb said:


> I have a luftkappe coming in the mail and I was wondering if anyone else who had gotten one had changed their fork settings when they put it in? More pressure? More tokens?


I have one in a Lyrik. More pressure, less tokens.


----------



## Kelvinbenedictmtb (May 10, 2019)

Thanks, Any change in compression or rebound?


----------



## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

Kelvinbenedictmtb said:


> Thanks, Any change in compression or rebound?


I can a little more compression and a little less rebound. Just one click of each.


----------



## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

davidsthubbins said:


> Thank you for a perfect example of why people are overthinking this. A bottle top comes to a stop...I stop screwing a bottle top on when it stops, do you stop earlier!? My HSC isn't a bottle top that screws on...it's a series of clicks that get progressively harder to turn. Throw in Fox's instructions about a gentle stop and in-lb/nm readings, not to mention the conflicting statements from Foxs' own techs and you see the confusion.


:eekster::eekster::eekster: I can definitely strip the plastic threads in a bottle cap if I wanted to. You should probably just sell your bike...

Best I can tell about 99% of the people in this thread have no business messing with their own suspension. This isn't rocket science.


----------



## Kelvinbenedictmtb (May 10, 2019)

I just go a 36 grip2 a couple of days ago and I feel that it has gotten more subtle in the last couple of days, kind of like it has set in or bedded in. Is this something that any of you have felt as well.


----------



## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


----------



## davidsthubbins (Dec 14, 2009)

Streetdoctor said:


> :eekster::eekster::eekster: I can definitely strip the plastic threads in a bottle cap if I wanted to. You should probably just sell your bike...
> 
> Best I can tell about 99% of the people in this thread have no business messing with their own suspension. This isn't rocket science.


Yeah idiots, your grip2 HSC works just like a water bottle lid!

Alright bud, since it's not rocket science and you're smarter than 99% of the people on this thread, you tell me at what click mine is closed. Starting from full open clicks 0-21 have the exact same resistance. Click 22 is slightly, almost imperceptibly more resistant. Click 23 is slightly more resistant that 22. Click 24 is slightly more resistant than 23. and so on and so on until click 30-31 have quite a bit of resistance but can still be turned by hand.

Come on man, you called me out as someone who has no business touching my fork and should probably just sell my bike... at which click is it completely closed? Keep in mind Ed from FOX said (and verified at least once) that 18 from full open is completely closed.

BTW I don't really care what you say, I've got enough time on the fork now to get a good idea of what my HSC is doing, but you dragged me back into the conversation by basically calling me an imbecile.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

davidsthubbins said:


> BTW I don't really care what you say, I've got enough time on the fork now to get a good idea of what my HSC is doing, but you dragged me back into the conversation by basically calling me an imbecile.


You did that all by yourself.


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## davidsthubbins (Dec 14, 2009)

robmac48 said:


> You did that all by yourself.


How exactly? By asking for clarification on when HSC is fully closed?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

davidsthubbins said:


> How exactly? By asking for clarification on when HSC is fully closed?


More like saying that it was impossible to tell when it's closed and you where going to break it if you tried. Turn it until you feel resistance increase. It's a physical stop with the needle bottoming out on the seat. This change in resistance is easy to feel. Forcing it beyond this point will damage the adjuster, but it take a substantial amount of force. We are taking 10 times or more. This is where the easy to feel comes into play.

Reading your post more closely, it sounds like you are opening the HSC instead of closing it.


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## davidsthubbins (Dec 14, 2009)

alexbn921 said:


> More like saying that it was impossible to tell when it's closed and you where going to break it if you tried. Turn it until you feel resistance increase. It's a physical stop with the needle bottoming out on the seat. This change in resistance is easy to feel. Forcing it beyond this point will damage the adjuster, but it take a substantial amount of force. We are taking 10 times or more. This is where the easy to feel comes into play.
> 
> Reading your post more closely, it sounds like you are opening the HSC instead of closing it.


I never actually said it was impossible to tell. I was just asking if there was ever a consensus on what exactly is full closed. Fox says "a gentle stop", Ed from FOX says "18 clicks from full open", the thread consensus is when you "feel resistance". As pointed out earlier, at least with my damper "feel resistance" is a bit relative.

A significant portion of this thread has been debating exactly this issue and I was just wondering if there was ever a firm consensus. As mentioned earlier, I've gotten to know my fork well enough in the last week that the question is no longer relative, but I apologize for being an idiot and not knowing in the first place.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

davidsthubbins said:


> I never actually said it was impossible to tell. I was just asking if there was ever a consensus on what exactly is full closed. Fox says "a gentle stop", Ed from FOX says "18 clicks from full open", the thread consensus is when you "feel resistance". As pointed out earlier, at least with my damper "feel resistance" is a bit relative.
> 
> A significant portion of this thread has been debating exactly this issue and I was just wondering if there was ever a firm consensus. As mentioned earlier, I've gotten to know my fork well enough in the last week that the question is no longer relative, but I apologize for being an idiot and not knowing in the first place.


Nothing wrong with questions. Full closed is always going to the same on all suspension adjusters. Full open is a very different story and there has been a lot of miss information in this thread. Fox didn't shim the HSC correctly, so it could have way too many clicks. This lead to confusion and also fox didn't have there story straight.

Full closed is the same on all forks. Only the first 12-14 clicks from closed have an effect. After that there is essentially no HSC control and LSC is effected as the stack is completely open. This gives a secondary oil path around the LSC needle.


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## ben_mtb (Feb 23, 2018)

I believe HSC confusion comes from the fact that the shim stacks maybe different across 36s. When I opened up the base valve, these two "stopping" shims were not there. They are 0.1mm thick each, they face the piston, as in the diagram below, but they don't cover the ports. So they act like a spacer, and limit the amount of preload the main shims have. If the base valve does not have these shims, you can put more preload, and HSC will continuously get harder and harder to turn, until the large shims face the piston. When these spacer shims are there, you can put less preload, and HSC adjuster stops faster, but it does not get progressively harder to turn, it just stops. I added the shims myself as I had some extra in that size. Also, after adding stopper shims, HSC for me, has about 10 usable clicks from fully closed, after that shims open up completely and float above the piston. That's a reason why at full open HSC, LSC has no effect, because all oil just flows through open piston ports. Hope this helps with confusion here.



Dr.Flow said:


> The explo view of the valving assy seems to proof your theory.
> 
> https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/img/help/page956-LCDG/820-03-530-kit.jpg
> 
> ...


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## davidsthubbins (Dec 14, 2009)

ben_mtb said:


> I believe HSC confusion comes from the fact that the shim stacks maybe different across 36s. When I opened up the base valve, these two "stopping" shims were not there. They are 0.1mm thick each, they face the piston, as in the diagram below, but they don't cover the ports. So they act like a spacer, and limit the amount of preload the main shims have. If the base valve does not have these shims, you can put more preload, and HSC will continuously get harder and harder to turn, until the large shims face the piston. When these spacer shims are there, you can put less preload, and HSC adjuster stops faster, but it does not get progressively harder to turn, it just stops. I added the shims myself as I had some extra in that size. Also, after adding stopper shims, HSC for me, has about 10 usable clicks from fully closed, after that shims open up completely and float above the piston. That's a reason why at full open HSC, LSC has no effect, because all oil just flows through open piston ports. Hope this helps with confusion here.


Thanks for posting this. That's exactly what mine does, just gradually gets harder to turn.


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## evildos (Aug 17, 2015)

Same here


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Placek said:


> Has anyone saw or maybe there is separate thread regarding F36 2020.
> Im interested in new/upgraded painting.


curious about this as well is there any difference between 2019 vs 2020? I can't see any difference in paint/stickers and haven't heard anything other than about the 32. Is the 2020 36 the exact same fork as 2019?


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## DeeGeeCee (Jan 20, 2019)

*2020 Fox 36 F-S*



Placek said:


> Has anyone saw or maybe there is separate thread regarding F36 2020.
> Im interested in new/upgraded painting.


Here is my 2020 Fox 36 Factory, 160mm, 27.5. I have a handful of rides on it, my settings are a bit off from recommended, and for generally fast choppy trails, nothing big yet till snow goes away at higher elevations.
HSC -12 from full closed
LSC -8
HSR -5
LSR -6
75 PSI
1 TOKEN.
The ride is well controlled and quite smooth at these settings.
At recommended it rides a bit firmer, i will likely go up a few clicks everywhere once the snow melts off of the bigger hit trails. I also have a 2020 Float X2 on the back, mates well with the fork on my SB6.


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

I have one ride on my 2020 Factory 36, 160mm, 29" and I love it so far.

Rider weight - 225lb with gear
HSC -12 from full closed
LSC - 6
HSR - 2
LSR - 3
90 PSI
2 tokens


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

7four8 said:


> Can anyone compare the grip2 damper to avalanche. Looking to upgrade my 2017 36 damper but looks like fox still having quality control issues.


Has anyone had an avalanche and a grip2 in the same chassis with the same spring?


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## DeeGeeCee (Jan 20, 2019)

There are a few differences, tho none are likely performance. The only note worthy one is the compression adjuster has a stop around 22 or 23 clicks, tho the effect stops after 16. I guess just the way the HSC works, tho i dont think the 18 or 19 year had a stop??? I have not ridden a 2019 for more than 5 minutes so i can not really say about actual trail difference, but they are supposed to be the same.


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## Tom1000 (May 22, 2019)

Just come across this thread, very informative! After some experimentation trying to workout whether the 16 effective clicks are from fully closed or fully open, what I found with my fork (36 grip 2 factory 160 29) is:

It’s got 36 clicks HSC. From fully open the first 28 clicks (turning clockwise - obviously) have light resistance then at click 21 there is increased resistance (quite a bit, maybe 4 times more, but not enough to make it feel bad), then the last 8 clicks stay at this resistance until after this it becomes hard enough that it stops turning (or at least hard enough I don’t want to try any harder).

After testing I figured out that fully closed is actually just where the resistance increases! So, the last 8 clicks clockwise are all fully closed and the 14 closest to “fully open” are actually all fully open, and the 16 effective clicks are between these, in the middle. Not the most user friendly set up!

Does this match anyone else’s testing?

Without actually going riding the most effective test I found was riding into a wall from a couple of meters away at the same speed each time.


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

I have counted 26 clicks HSC for 2020 36 Grip 2 from fully closed (clockwise). Adjuster came to a hard stop at 26 and would not move. When turning fully clockwise I turn until it stops and then rotate a tiny bit counter clockwise for the adjuster to hit the detent. Counted 26 from there.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Tom1000 said:


> Just come across this thread, very informative! After some experimentation trying to workout whether the 16 effective clicks are from fully closed or fully open, what I found with my fork (36 grip 2 factory 160 29) is:
> 
> It's got 36 clicks HSC. From fully open the first 28 clicks (turning clockwise - obviously) have light resistance then at click 21 there is increased resistance (quite a bit, maybe 4 times more, but not enough to make it feel bad), then the last 8 clicks stay at this resistance until after this it becomes hard enough that it stops turning (or at least hard enough I don't want to try any harder).
> 
> ...


Count anticlockwise from full closed.

Full closed is when you start feeling an increase in resistance when turning clockwise (it's not much like only 2-3Nm). Don't turn until you hit a hard stop as you may damage the adjuster.


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## bartmikel (Jun 17, 2014)

[QUOTE = Erlendking; 14074544] Hola, he estado corriendo un 2019 fox 36 grip2 160 mm por un tiempo, y estoy luchando para encontrar la configuración correcta. Yo peso 60kgs (132lbs). Reparé mis horquillas hace unos días, y quité una cantidad decente de grasa de ambos lados del pistón de aire, reemplacé el aceite, empapé los anillos de espuma y lubriqué las juntas, que estaban casi completamente secas. La horquilla de alguna manera se siente menos sensible, casi "molesta", cuando se aplica una carga estática y aumenta gradualmente hasta que se rompe la tesis. Añadiré que la horquilla también parece ser un poco más ruidosa, haciendo un sonido de "succión" cuando se extiende.

El último viaje que estaba ejecutando:

desde cerrado: 
1 ficha 
58 psi 
10LSR 
8HSR 
9LSC 
12HSC

El tenedor se sentía absolutamente horrible en secciones ásperas, y mis brazos y manos estaban totalmente golpeados por un breve descenso. Utilicé alrededor del 80-90% de viaje al saltar, lo cual me sentí muy bien.

Después de leer este hilo, he cambiado mi configuración a esta, que probaré más adelante esta semana:

de cerrado: 
2 tokens 
55psi 
8LSR 
7HSR 
10LSC 
16HSC ¿ Alguien

sabe algo que pueda cambiar para mejorar cómo se siente el tenedor en bruto? 
Además, ¿qué podría haber hecho que la horquilla fuera menos sensible después del servicio, solo es necesario montarla? Tener presiones de aire igualadas al inflar. [/ QUOTE]

how did it go?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Tom1000 said:


> Just come across this thread, very informative! After some experimentation trying to workout whether the 16 effective clicks are from fully closed or fully open, what I found with my fork (36 grip 2 factory 160 29) is:
> 
> It's got 36 clicks HSC. From fully open the first 28 clicks (turning clockwise - obviously) have light resistance then at click 21 there is increased resistance (quite a bit, maybe 4 times more, but not enough to make it feel bad), then the last 8 clicks stay at this resistance until after this it becomes hard enough that it stops turning (or at least hard enough I don't want to try any harder).
> 
> ...


I found the most effective test was running the damper on a dyno....and the 16 clicks is from the hard stop, like every other damper ever. It gets stiffer on those last clicks because you are litterally pressing the shim stack down in to the dished piston which creates extra tension. The adjuster stops once it bottoms out on the spacer shims

It is almost impossible to force this adjuster too far just by hand, please everyone stop overthinking this!


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## Yeti83 (Feb 29, 2016)

JohnnyC7 said:


> ...please everyone stop overthinking this!


The opposite! Keep going, this thread is hilarious. People testing suspension by driving in to walls and stuff.


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

Yeti83 said:


> The opposite! Keep going, this thread is hilarious. People testing suspension by driving in to walls and stuff.


Agree, I am bummed about this thread. I was hoping to get some good info on other rider's settings but the main topic is figuring out what fully closed is.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

I recently upgraded my 2018 160 36 RC2 first to a GRIP2, then to the EVOL air shaft w/ Luftkappe and green SKF seals. On my previous bike with a 170 36 RC2, I'd upgraded to the EVOL and Luftkappe, but not GRIP2 or SKF seals. I'm an "intermediate+" rider, weigh about 165-170 lbs, and ride steep and flowy trails (without a ton of rocks). I've run both forks at around 71-74 psi. The 170 RC2 had 0 tokens before & after Luftkappe, the 160 GRIP2 had 1 token before and 0 tokens after.

On the first fork (RC2), I found the Luftkappe helped a bit on the initial stroke, but the effect was pretty minimal. I'm not sure if that is due to the RC2 having less usable compression range for my weight/riding style, or the seals.

On the second fork, upgrading to the GRIP2 did seem to give the fork a bit wider typical active range. It's hard to explain, but it seemed that after the fork got moving, it would move more easily into its travel while still riding high and recovering quickly. I am able to run more LSC and still have a similar pedal feel.

On the second fork, subsequently adding the Luftkappe & green SKF seals had a dramatic difference on the initial stroke. I'm not sure how much is due to each component, but as a whole, the fork feels very active on the first ~20% of the travel. I'm still running the same air pressure, so it sits at the same sag point, but as Vorsprung notes, it will now sag about 3mm just under it's own weight. Whereas before I had to use force to break the initial stiction. The result was a feeling of increased grip and smoothness when riding at speed through small chatter. Another analogy would be that my fork improved in a similar feeling to how the rear end felt right after I replaced the worn out bearings in the linkage.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I need help accessing more travel. Fox Factory 36 Grip2 150mm travel at 30% sag iirc and 65psi for 190lb rider. I'm not using all the travel and would like too at times, only using about 75% usually. I don't want to run less PSI I think. I have 1 volume token in right now. I tried removing that but felt that resulted in travel going to easily. I might try it again BUT I was wondering if I could just shave down a volume spacer to be like 50% of its normal size (still clip in easily).

Is cutting down a volume spacer ok? I only need the one and have like 3 extras. My hope is that it helps access the extra travel but still gives me a little more progression than having no spacer. Thoughts? Should I take a different approach? Maybe removing the spacer and upping the HSC/LSC and psi?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Why do you need to use more travel? Is there something wrong with how it feels? You've already found that removing the token makes it too soft so its possible you just don't need that much most of the time. By all means cut one of your spare spacers in half to see how that feels so it at least puts your mind at ease.

I'm all for experimentation anyway though, and 65psi seems quite low so give it a go with no spacers again and try out more pressure or compression damping

You appear to have your current settings noted so just go wild changing things up and see what feels best. Worst case is it doesn't improve anything so just go back to where you are at now (which seems to work fine otherwise?, the only complaint youve mentioned is not using all the travel) and no harm done.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Why do you need to use more travel? Is there something wrong with how it feels? You've already found that removing the token makes it too soft so its possible you just don't need that much most of the time. By all means cut one of your spare spacers in half to see how that feels so it at least puts your mind at ease.
> 
> I'm all for experimentation anyway though, and 65psi seems quite low so give it a go with no spacers again and try out more pressure or compression damping
> 
> You appear to have your current settings noted so just go wild changing things up and see what feels best. Worst case is it doesn't improve anything so just go back to where you are at now (which seems to work fine otherwise?, the only complaint youve mentioned is not using all the travel) and no harm done.


I was going to say the same thing. I only weigh 170 lbs, and run 71 psi. 30% sag is too much for a fork too, that's in the typical range for a shock.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Cool, thanks guys. As for why using more travel...I'm just interested in getting the best performance out of it. I'm not unhappy and it's working really well tho I'll mess around and see what happens. There is a good chance I just am not riding it hard enough lol. 

How much travel are you guys going through on a normal ride that isn't super rowdy? Is your band into or close to the Kashima logo (last 30mm-ish of travel iirc)?


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

Using all of your travel is not a good metric of performance. If you have a 160mm fork and are riding smooth flow trails, you're not going to use anywhere near your full travel. If you are, the fork is going to feel terrible on rougher terrain and unsupportive in general, as your weight will frequently shift forward as the fork sinks deep in its travel.

I've got a 160 fork and probably only bottom it out on larger (or badly executed) jumps or on steep g-outs. I tune for how the fork feels throughout the descent. I want it to track quickly over small chatter and soak up bigger hits, but recover quickly to preserve my frame's geometry. In general, I tend to run my suspension with manufacturer's recommended pressure (which is usually higher than most riders think they like), low compression damping, and fast rebound.


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## TMO8853 (Apr 22, 2014)

While I appreciate everyone's contribution to this thread... I must say this thread is very confusing and contradicting when reading from the beginning. We almost need a new thread with only correct information and make it a sticky. Please!.... never again mention your settings starting from the open (counter clockwise) position lol. 

My goal is to have the best of both worlds... poppy and playful on jumps and composed / stuck to ground in the chunky stuff. 


I initially tried using some suggestions from the Ibis forums (see below) where guys are running high LSR and really low HSR, but my fork gets packed up in the chunky stuff and it feels harsh (however I did clock one of my fastest times using this setup)

Original Settings (Ibis MTBR Forums):
Rider weight - 175 geared up
Fork travel - 170 mm (29er)
Air pressure - 60 psi
Tokens - 0
HSC - 12
LSC - 7
HSR - 3
LSR - 8
(all from fully closed)

I'm going to try these new settings I found on Ibis's Setup Guide, however I will probably end up speeding up by LSR and opening up my HSC (lighter). I can't bottom this fork out unless I do something stupid so I can't see why I would not just run HSC full open. Let me know your thoughts on my setup and my comments regarding HSC. Thanks!

New Settings (Ibis Company Setup Guide & Personal Changes):
Rider weight - 175 geared up
Fork travel - 170 mm (29er)
Air pressure - 55 psi
Tokens - 0
HSC - 10
LSC - 7
HSR - 5
LSR - 6
(all from fully closed)


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

You're packing out because you're running too low of pressure. Run more pressure, less compression, more rebound. HSC has nothing to do with position in travel, it's about the speed at which the fork is moving.

I find the Yeti recommended settings to be very good, and am about the same weight.
71 psi
HSC - open
HSR - open
LSC - 9
LSR - 12


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## TMO8853 (Apr 22, 2014)

Andeh said:


> You're packing out because you're running too low of pressure. Run more pressure, less compression, more rebound. HSC has nothing to do with position in travel, it's about the speed at which the fork is moving.
> 
> I find the Yeti recommended settings to be very good, and am about the same weight.
> 71 psi
> ...


Your the first person I've seen run faster HSR than LSR... and that fast of rebound overall. I guess it won't hurt to try it out, but I would have to assume its gotta be bouncy.

Where are these YETI recommend settings I hear people referencing? I've been all over their website and google searched and I can't find them.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

TMO8853 said:


> Your the first person I've seen run faster HSR than LSR... and that fast of rebound overall. I guess it won't hurt to try it out, but I would have to assume its gotta be bouncy.
> 
> Where are these YETI recommend settings I hear people referencing? I've been all over their website and google searched and I can't find them.


https://www.yeticycles.com/bikes/sb150/?guide:support-shock-setup

I'm riding a Sentinel. I've got my rear set up similarly... high-ish pressure, fast rebound, very little compression damping. It doesn't feel bouncy at all. I'd describe it as being very active - gives up travel when it needs to, but quickly returns to the neutral state (which helps preserve geometry).


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## TMO8853 (Apr 22, 2014)

Thanks for the link! Cool man I will definitely try it out.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

TMO8853 said:


> While I appreciate everyone's contribution to this thread... I must say this thread is very confusing and contradicting when reading from the beginning. We almost need a new thread with only correct information and make it a sticky. Please!.... never again mention your settings starting from the open (counter clockwise) position lol.
> 
> My goal is to have the best of both worlds... poppy and playful on jumps and composed / stuck to ground in the chunky stuff.
> 
> ...


HSC doesn't just resist bottoming so don't assume you need less just because you haven't used full travel. Try out different settings, harder and softer and go by what feels better. You may not have hit something that warrants full travel use


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## DeeGeeCee (Jan 20, 2019)

*settings*



TMO8853 said:


> While I appreciate everyone's contribution to this thread... I must say this thread is very confusing and contradicting when reading from the beginning. We almost need a new thread with only correct information and make it a sticky. Please!.... never again mention your settings starting from the open (counter clockwise) position lol.
> 
> My goal is to have the best of both worlds... poppy and playful on jumps and composed / stuck to ground in the chunky stuff.
> 
> ...


I have 8 weeks on the new 2020 36 now, my settings have changed, but not drastically. Main change is air pressure up to 83psi., up from 75ish, i am around 195 pounds ready to ride I run settings at this:
160mm travel 27.5
so 83 psi.
HSC 11
LSC 7
HSR 4
LSR 5
1 token

These do change when i go from chunky slow speed tech trails to high speed chop trails to tables, berms and such, even then not that much.

I think Fox rec is pretty damp feeling on my 160mm fork, so my baseline is 1 click open from Fox rec on everything. It is not the do it all setting, but close to it. I think its best to start at rec and make changes according to what you like/want. Everyone is gonna ride different, and require different settings. I personally would not open HSC all the way, things get a bit bouncy and i can't feel enough trail feedback myself at that setting, but do get full travel easier. But that said.....try it and if you don't like it, close it down a bit.


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## yeti0200 (Mar 28, 2019)

Out of curiosity I did some testing without air pressure to understand how HSC and LSC affect each other. 

If I remove all of the air pressure from the fork, slowly so it doesn't get sucked down, then set LSC to full open, and adjust HSC from full open to full closed, I am unable to tell a difference when pushing down on the handle bars to compress the fork. No difference from Full open HSC all the way down a couple clicks at a time to full closed HSC. 

Is this just because LSC is full open?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

yeti0200 said:


> Out of curiosity I did some testing without air pressure to understand how HSC and LSC affect each other.
> 
> If I remove all of the air pressure from the fork, slowly so it doesn't get sucked down, then set LSC to full open, and adjust HSC from full open to full closed, I am unable to tell a difference when pushing down on the handle bars to compress the fork. No difference from Full open HSC all the way down a couple clicks at a time to full closed HSC.
> 
> Is this just because LSC is full open?


Yes

If the LSC is full open then you have a relatively large amount of oil flow and it would take a very fast hit to get into the HSC range.

If you close the LSC then you will very easily be able to feel the HSC open and allow the extra flow. When you get the HSC to 12ish clicks open you will feel the LSC start to slip away to nothing as the HSC is no longer preloaded and provides an alternate oil path.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

yeti0200 said:


> Out of curiosity I did some testing without air pressure to understand how HSC and LSC affect each other.
> 
> If I remove all of the air pressure from the fork, slowly so it doesn't get sucked down, then set LSC to full open, and adjust HSC from full open to full closed, I am unable to tell a difference when pushing down on the handle bars to compress the fork. No difference from Full open HSC all the way down a couple clicks at a time to full closed HSC.
> 
> Is this just because LSC is full open?


Yes its because LSC is full open. They work in tandem. The LSC is the first line of defense for compression. It's always active in restricting oil to flow through. When it gets overwhelmed by to much pressure pushing on the oil (a faster compression)...the oil blows through the HSC (kind of an overflow). Hsc handles that extra oil to control that often harder hit.

So if the lsc is wide open, the HSC isnt being activated much by you pushing on the bars. The port is open wide enough to handle the pressure.

This is my rudimentary understanding of it. Go ahead and cranks up the lsc (and some hsc) and they hammer down on the bars with the air still out. This will engage the HSC and it will be noticeable. Especially if you completely close down the LSC.


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## Erotomania (Feb 14, 2011)

I finally made the switch from a Lyrik to a 36 on my Capra and after one ride I'm loving it. I really wanted to like the Lyrik, and tried the luftkappe and debonair upgrades. The only options left where the push damper upgrade and smashpot, but that was too close to the cost of buying a new fork. This thread had me a bit nervous. I definitely don't have it dialed in yet but it does what I couldn't get the Lyrik to do. The Lyrik is super plush, but I couldn't get any support at all without it becoming painfully stiff further into the travel. I'd say the 36 is more firm overall, but not harsh and stiff. You feel the trail, but it dampens things enough to take the sting out. It keeps the tire planted and gripping ALL the time, and consistently returns to ride height, where the lyrik would wallow around the sag point. The 36 allows you to push the front end and stay in control.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

I know its a bit off topic and newbie question, but can someone here give me once and for all answer about Fox 36 Grip1\Fit4 rebound - 

When im turning it to the minus sign\clockwise is it close\slow rebound, and to the plus sign\counter clockwise its open\fast rebound ?

Or is it the opposite like the old Pike RC i had - 
clockwise\rabbit > open\fast rebound, counter clockwise\turtle > close\slow rebound?


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Clockwise is slower. Easy to check. Just turn it one way or the other until it stops and see what rebound you have.


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## TMO8853 (Apr 22, 2014)

del


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I did two lower leg and air spring services on new fox 36 grip 2 forks. Both were performance elite versions. Both had 5-6 rides on them as break in rides and this is the post break in lower leg service. Both had massive amounts of grease in the negative air chambers. 

It's been posted about several times in this thread, but if you haven't already, do a lower leg service/air spring service on your fox 36. Even (especially if) it's brand new.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Muddy-Runs said:


> I know its a bit off topic and newbie question, but can someone here give me once and for all answer about Fox 36 Grip1\Fit4 rebound -
> 
> When im turning it to the minus sign\clockwise is it close\slow rebound, and to the plus sign\counter clockwise its open\fast rebound ?
> 
> ...


To ease your mind, turn it to both extremes and jump on the bike. You'll know the difference right away. But + is usually adding damping and slowing down the rebound, and - is usually opening it up, taking away rebound damping, and making rebound faster.

But simply just turn it both ways to the end and you'll have your answer. Just make note of where it is right now.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

Muddy-Runs said:


> I know its a bit off topic and newbie question, but can someone here give me once and for all answer about Fox 36 Grip1\Fit4 rebound -
> 
> When im turning it to the minus sign\clockwise is it close\slow rebound, and to the plus sign\counter clockwise its open\fast rebound ?
> 
> ...


For both compression and rebound, + is more damping, - is less damping. These are set up just like a normal hose valve, where clockwise = closed (more damping) and counterclockwise = open (less damping).

In other words, more rebound damping means the fork will return to the neutral position slower (turtle). Less rebound damping means it returns faster (rabbit).

More compression damping means the fork will resist being compressed more. Less compression damping means the fork will offer less resistance to being compressed.

Your GRIP1 adjustments only affect low speed, so ignore any suggestions you see referring to HSC or HSR, as you lack adjustments for those.


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## Shartist (Aug 15, 2018)

Muddy-Runs said:


> I know its a bit off topic and newbie question, but can someone here give me once and for all answer about Fox 36 Grip1\Fit4 rebound -
> 
> When im turning it to the minus sign\clockwise is it close\slow rebound, and to the plus sign\counter clockwise its open\fast rebound ?
> 
> ...


Frankly, I don't understand how people are still asking this question as it is clearly addressed in the manual with both illustrations and accompanying text...


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

@jdang307 and @Andeh tnx for the clarification, it was a bit confusing.

I always saw it as Slow\Fast Rebound & Hard\Soft Compression (not more\less dumping). I was sure its working the same as my shock, clockwise = slow\close & counterclockwise = fast\open, and thats how i was setting my fork’s rebound, 13 clicks from close to open, but looks like it was the opposite - from open to close…

Now that i turned the rebound knob all the way both sides, it was clear what is what. Looks like the rebound on the fork works the opposite way (coz the screw is upside down) - clockwise (-) = less damping\fast\open & counterclockwise (+) = more damping\slow\close, unless the bike is upside down, then its like the shock. 

My fork was too harsh and i thought because it was too fast, but it was too slow that caused the harshness feeling. Once i added couple of clicks to the minus side (now i know it make it faster not slower…) it felt much better.

@Shartist, thanks for your contribution.
Maybe it clear for you, but not for me… and im sure more people will benefit as well from these answers.


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## yeti0200 (Mar 28, 2019)

Last night I decided to open up the damper and add some shims to adjust the number of clicks my HSC adjuster has. 

When I un threaded the top cap, the piston also un threaded and now remains inside the damper tube. I'm not totally sure why this would happen, maybe I clamped down too close to the piston causing deflection of the tube to prevent the piston from turning (did it as shown in video on the fox website). I clamped down on the tube incrementally until I was able to break the top cap free, so I don't think I over clamped the tube. Or, maybe there is an issue with the piston seal. 

I tried fishing out the piston with a hook but that didn't quite work. My other ideas are to un thread the bottom cap of the tube on the rebound side then push out the piston, which I would rather not do. Maybe a set of long narrow pliers would allow me to pull it out. 

Any ideas on how to remove the piston now? Has anyone seen this happen before?


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## ben_mtb (Feb 23, 2018)

I'm looking at the below picture of the top cap assembly. Are you saying everything below the piston got stuck in the tube? Which includes the valve, spring, and piston bolt? Or are you saying the top cap itself came off from the shaft and shaft and everything else got stuck in the tube?


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

yeti0200 said:


> Last night I decided to open up the damper and add some shims to adjust the number of clicks my HSC adjuster has.
> 
> When I un threaded the top cap, the piston also un threaded and now remains inside the damper tube. I'm not totally sure why this would happen, maybe I clamped down too close to the piston causing deflection of the tube to prevent the piston from turning (did it as shown in video on the fox website). I clamped down on the tube incrementally until I was able to break the top cap free, so I don't think I over clamped the tube. Or, maybe there is an issue with the piston seal.
> 
> ...


Yes ive seen it before - whats happened is you have clamped the pressure tube in the wrong place and its gripped the piston and undone the piston bolt.

what you will have to do is undo the rebound shaft then clamp the pressure tube at 90 degrees to the place you last clamped it as you will have crushed the tube - hense it being stuck.

the tubes are very soft and crush very easy. Its a pain to get the piston out once this happens and i would suspect it will now need a new pressure tube, these are about £20 in the uk


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## yeti0200 (Mar 28, 2019)

ben_mtb said:


> I'm looking at the below picture of the top cap assembly. Are you saying everything below the piston got stuck in the tube? Which includes the valve, spring, and piston bolt? Or are you saying the top cap itself came off from the shaft and shaft and everything else got stuck in the tube?


Yes the piston and everything below, check valve, spring and bolt. The compression valving came out when I dumped the oil.



dlocki said:


> Yes ive seen it before - whats happened is you have clamped the pressure tube in the wrong place and its gripped the piston and undone the piston bolt.
> 
> what you will have to do is undo the rebound shaft then clamp the pressure tube at 90 degrees to the place you last clamped it as you will have crushed the tube - hense it being stuck.
> 
> the tubes are very soft and crush very easy. Its a pain to get the piston out once this happens and i would suspect it will now need a new pressure tube, these are about £20 in the uk


Thanks. Wow that's unfortunate. I suppose I'll know if I need a new tube when I get it back together and try to push the assembly back in? Will this have to be purchased from Fox? I don't see it available on any online bike shops.


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## yeti0200 (Mar 28, 2019)

bump.... I think the tube is fine, the OD measures the same up and down the tube.

Seems my amazon soft jaws are not going to work for this project after all as they offer no lateral support for the tube to prevent it from compressing. Unfortunately the fox shaft clamps are out of stock till September. I found this set of shaft clamps online https://www.bbinstitute.com/store/tools/bbi-universal-shaft-clamp-set-detail

The pressure tube measures about 22.55 - 22.60 mm OD, so my question to you all is will this set of clamps work? The set looks to have 21.0, 22.2, 23.8 holes (not sure if ID). If not I might just make a set out of wood at this point.


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## ben_mtb (Feb 23, 2018)

I believe damper tube is 22.6 
That's according to my calipers and one internet reference I found.
One forum user makes custom size clamps
https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/2510627/

I ordered a set from him, but before that I was able to hold it with Ridgid #2 strap wrench successfully.


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## yeti0200 (Mar 28, 2019)

wow thanks for the pink bike link, looks like that guy has some skill, decent prices too. 

I ended up ordering the bbi set just before you responded haha. I can return them if they don't work so I don't have much to lose.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

yeti0200 said:


> bump.... I think the tube is fine, the OD measures the same up and down the tube.
> 
> Seems my amazon soft jaws are not going to work for this project after all as they offer no lateral support for the tube to prevent it from compressing. Unfortunately the fox shaft clamps are out of stock till September. I found this set of shaft clamps online https://www.bbinstitute.com/store/tools/bbi-universal-shaft-clamp-set-detail
> 
> The pressure tube measures about 22.55 - 22.60 mm OD, so my question to you all is will this set of clamps work? The set looks to have 21.0, 22.2, 23.8 holes (not sure if ID). If not I might just make a set out of wood at this point.


If you dont have clamps, you can clamps the flats of the bottom seal head, support the pressure tube with your hand and carefully unscrew the topcap with a socket wrench. if the seal head has never been apart then you should be able the crack the compression cap this way. The topcap is tight but it can be done this way.

if you cant get the proper clamps for the pressure tube then do not clamp it as you will crush it.


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## ecbmxer (Jan 5, 2007)

Anybody done a damper service on the grip2 yet? Fox has a full rebuild video, but says that unless you are having issues, this isn't needed as part of an annual service. My though was just clean and replace the fluid, along with standard lower leg service. I've been running mine for a year, did a lower leg service about mid-way through.


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## gramboh (Nov 7, 2018)

Just got a new bike (YT Jeffsy 27 CF Pro Race) with a 160mm Fox 36 Factory GRIP2. Only have two rides on the bike but loving it so far, previous bike had a 2017 Pike RCT3 with Luftkappe. The Luftkappe helped that fork a lot but it was just not confidence inspiring in rough terrain. My new 36 reminds me of the Fox 40 Factory RC2 I had on my DH bike before I sold it.

Anyway, when I look at other's settings in this thread they seem to be absurdly low air pressure for their weight? My initial settings are below, working on Fox's tuning guide while I break in the fork.

Weight: 200lbs naked, 210-215ish geared up if carrying extra water
Pressure: 95 psi
Tokens: 1
HSR: 2
LSR: 3
HSC: 10
LSC: 6
(all from closed obviously)

Sag is around 20% give or take. Riding North Shore/Squamish/Whistler, mostly black/double black rooty/rocky tech with some flow/jump trails here and there.

I am using full travel a bit more than I'd like i.e. off 3-4 foot drops, just put in an order for more volume spacers as the fork came with only 1. Might speed up rebound a click on each as well and see how it feels at same air pressure. Fork feels great overall though, need to spend more time on the DPX2.


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

I wondering about the same thing, but I'm in a completely different weight category. Here are my settings, all from closed.

65 kg / 143 lbs
Giant Reign 2016 with RC4 500 lbs/in spring and lots of comp damping in the back
-1.5° WorksComp head set

170 mm Float settings:
71 psi, 2 orange tokens
6 clicks HSC
7 clicks LSC
6 clicks HSR
5 clicks LSR

Now converted to coil with Vosrprung Smashpot set to 160 mm
45 lbs/in spring
7 clicks HSC
9 or 8 clicks LSC
Rebound as above

Works. Pretty. Fekking. Good.


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## gramboh (Nov 7, 2018)

Dr.Flow said:


> I wondering about the same thing, but I'm in a completely different weight category. Here are my settings, all from closed.
> 
> 65 kg / 143 lbs
> Giant Reign 2016 with RC4 500 lbs/in spring and lots of comp damping in the back
> ...


Looks like your PSI was kinda proportional to bodyweight like mine with a bit higher as I assume you are riding aggressively with that bike setup.

How do you compare the Smashpot to the stock air spring? Reviews are pretty damn good in terms of grip, small bump/suppleness and mid-stroke without giving out bottom out control... only downside seems to be a small increase in weight. Might think about that upgrade down the road along with a DHX2 out back for fun.


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

The weight penalty is there, but I don't care. Overall performance is ways ahead of an air spring, may it be consistency, top of travel suppleness or ride height - it's just superior.


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

gramboh said:


> Just got a new bike (YT Jeffsy 27 CF Pro Race) with a 160mm Fox 36 Factory GRIP2. Only have two rides on the bike but loving it so far, previous bike had a 2017 Pike RCT3 with Luftkappe. The Luftkappe helped that fork a lot but it was just not confidence inspiring in rough terrain. My new 36 reminds me of the Fox 40 Factory RC2 I had on my DH bike before I sold it.
> 
> Anyway, when I look at other's settings in this thread they seem to be absurdly low air pressure for their weight? My initial settings are below, working on Fox's tuning guide while I break in the fork.
> 
> ...


I would recommend adding 1-2 tokens to help with bottoming. The tokens should also allow you to run less psi and you should be able to open up your compression and rebound to help with the small stuff.

I am 230lb with gear and probably much less aggressive rider than you. Here are my settings.

2020 Fox 36 Grip 2, 160mm, 29er
Pressure: 92 psi
Tokens: 2
HSR: 3
LSR: 4
HSC: 16
LSC: 11
(all from closed)

I am getting plenty of bottom out resistance (about 25mm unused travel most rides) and the fork is really plush over the small stuff. I have found opening up the rebound has also helped alot.


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## Kelvinbenedictmtb (May 10, 2019)

My current settings are below. The fork feels amazing and the only thing that I can complaint about is that there is not as much small bump compliance as I would like being 135 lbs geared. The fork feels absolutely amazing on big jumps and drops though. 

~60 psi
5 tokens 
hsc 14 from closed
lsc 8 clicks from closed
lsr 2 clicks from slowest
hsr 2 clicks from slowest
160 mm travel

oh and a luftkappe

This fork is amazing. Honestly would not go to anything else. I use full travel for oh **** moments but it is never a harsh bottom out. The mid-stroke support for my setup is amazing. Tokens really transform this fork into something else.


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## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Holy ****, that must be a super-progressive setup? The Luftkappe + 5 tokens???


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## Erotomania (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm 160lbs on a 180mm. 65psi no tokens lsc 10 hsc 14 lsr 6 hsr 6. For faster and steeper trails I'll go up to 68psi.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Kelvinbenedictmtb said:


> My current settings are below. The fork feels amazing and the only thing that I can complaint about is that there is not as much small bump compliance as I would like being 135 lbs geared. The fork feels absolutely amazing on big jumps and drops though.
> 
> ~60 psi
> 5 tokens
> ...


Wow! that is way too many tokens, unless you are hucking 15 foot to flat. Your rebound is super slow too, especially for your weight and spring rate.


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## Jaessr (Jul 23, 2019)

I‘m riding the new 36 grip2 180mm as well as the new 40 grip2 203mm and I found myself with nearly the same settings except for the lsc. I fiddled a lot but It turned out the best for me so far even with heavy trails but I want to know what you guys think about my settings

F36:
60psi (im 89kg but it hast 28% sag which is perfect for me. I like it soft like this)
2 tokens
Hsc completely open
Lsc completely open
Hsr 4
Lsr 5

F40:
60 psi
5 tokens
Hsc completely open
Lsc 4 clicks from open
Hsr 4
Lsr 5

I‘m just a bit confused as to why I have to open the lsc completely to have the same result as with the 40
Without the lsc completely open the f36 felt way to hard on hard full hits. I compensated the resulting bottom outs with 2 tokens which prevents them perfectly now.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Does anyone converted F36 Grip 2 to coil and what are your impressions? (Thinking of Vorsprung and Push)


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Placek said:


> Does anyone converted F36 Grip 2 to coil and what are your impressions? (Thinking of Vorsprung and Push)


I've been running an ACS-3 kit for a while now. Personally I think it's amazing. However, I never ran it as air to compare.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Jaessr said:


> I'm riding the new 36 grip2 180mm as well as the new 40 grip2 203mm and I found myself with nearly the same settings except for the lsc. I fiddled a lot but It turned out the best for me so far even with heavy trails but I want to know what you guys think about my settings
> 
> F36:
> 60psi (im 89kg but it hast 28% sag which is perfect for me. I like it soft like this)
> ...


My opinion is that you're too little pressure, too much sag and you're running into the air spring ramp up and it's acting like a wall of progression. Many riders interpret this as needing to back off of HSC and drop air spring pressure, when in fact, the right answer in these cases can be to add air spring pressure and the right amount of HSC.

That being said the Grip 2 stock tune runs firm. It's not a huge shocker to see people running it mostly if not all the way open (particularly on HSC imo)... however that is almost always coupled with a high amount of air spring pressure to keep the fork high in it's travel.

For example my settings:
Rider weight = 79kg
PSI = 77
Token = 1
HSC = -12
LSC = -7
HSR = -6
LSR = -7

The rebound is actually a touch fast at the moment as I'm doing a lot of very chunky riding and I'm preferring to sacrifice a bit of stability to keep the fork ready to respond to big hits.

All that being said, I really think that if you were to up the air spring pressure, reduce your tokens by 1, and add some LSC/HSC you'd get a bit better performance out of the fork. I am being very specific in these words because I'm betting that it will not feel better and will tend to feel a touch harsh... however from my experience, the grip 2 is a touch heavy on damping, and overall, performs best if it's given the opportunity to sit higher in it's travel.

Your hands won't thank me, but I'm betting that you'll be faster and the bike will feel better when you ride it harder.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

Im having Fox 36 160mm that comes with 1 volume spacer, i understand how the volume spacer works\what its doing, but someone know when it start to affect the last part of the travel? in the last 20% of the travel , 10% , more? or maybe less?


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## Shepherd Wong (Apr 24, 2005)

Muddy-Runs said:


> Im having Fox 36 160mm that comes with 1 volume spacer, i understand how the volume spacer works\what its doing, but someone know when it start to affect the last part of the travel? in the last 20% of the travel , 10% , more? or maybe less?


It affects the entire travel.


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## darsannn (Sep 7, 2017)

minimusprime said:


> My opinion is that you're too little pressure, too much sag and you're running into the air spring ramp up and it's acting like a wall of progression. Many riders interpret this as needing to back off of HSC and drop air spring pressure, when in fact, the right answer in these cases can be to add air spring pressure and the right amount of HSC.
> 
> That being said the Grip 2 stock tune runs firm. It's not a huge shocker to see people running it mostly if not all the way open (particularly on HSC imo)... however that is almost always coupled with a high amount of air spring pressure to keep the fork high in it's travel.
> 
> ...


yup! i can only confirm what you have written.

iam 82-83kg with 82 psi
Token = 1
HSC = -13
LSC = -7
HSR = -4
LSR = -6

its soft enough and stable at speed, doesnt dive, really nice setup!


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## gramboh (Nov 7, 2018)

Thanks for all the settings posts guys. Can someone comment on generally how much PSI one might take out of the fork for each volume spacer added? I thought I remember reading 5psi but can't find word from Fox. Of course I will experiment but curious what others have found. Hoping to go from 1-2 or 1-3 spacers and drop PSI to improve small bump without sacrficing mid-stroke... bottom out is OK.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

gramboh said:


> Thanks for all the settings posts guys. Can someone comment on generally how much PSI one might take out of the fork for each volume spacer added? I thought I remember reading 5psi but can't find word from Fox. Of course I will experiment but curious what others have found. Hoping to go from 1-2 or 1-3 spacers and drop PSI to improve small bump without sacrficing mid-stroke... bottom out is OK.


Only way is to try, but I don't find much success using volume spacers for anything other then tuning bottom out. If I need more small bump compliance, I make changes to LSC/HSC to accomplish that. Generally, I think the logic is 3-5psi per volume spacer.


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## darsannn (Sep 7, 2017)

gramboh said:


> Thanks for all the settings posts guys. Can someone comment on generally how much PSI one might take out of the fork for each volume spacer added? I thought I remember reading 5psi but can't find word from Fox. Of course I will experiment but curious what others have found. Hoping to go from 1-2 or 1-3 spacers and drop PSI to improve small bump without sacrficing mid-stroke... bottom out is OK.


dont mess with spacer,
try with just one and get 18-20% Sag when standing, 
rebound from the fox chart.
u DONT get small bump and not loose mid stroke, spacers are worse for midstroke. the only thing you will get is reaching the progression too fast and this is NOT good.

for good small bump try this with -8 lsc and -14 hsc from closed, if its to soft increase 1-2 psi


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## Kelvinbenedictmtb (May 10, 2019)

Spacers REDUCE small bump compliance but give you more support. I generally don't change the pressure when I add tokens. If you are looking for a supple set up then run the minimum tokens you can get away with. The unsung heroes of small bump compliance are rebound and LSC.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Kelvinbenedictmtb said:


> Spacers REDUCE small bump compliance but give you more support. I generally don't change the pressure when I add tokens. If you are looking for a supple set up then run the minimum tokens you can get away with. The unsung heroes of small bump compliance are rebound and LSC.


Is it usually more LSC/LSR to help with small bump (within reason) or on the lesser side? I'm interested in more detail regarding that.


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## Dr.Flow (Jul 6, 2011)

Steve's Tuesday Tunes Episode 11 on YouTube would be a good starting point. And if you're really interested just watch the whole series and try to learn.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Dr.Flow said:


> Steve's Tuesday Tunes Episode 11 on YouTube would be a good starting point. And if you're really interested just watch the whole series and try to learn.


Been there...its like sitting through a physics class again lol. I will got checkout Eps 11 tho, I'm sure I haven't seen that.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Spacers don't reduce small bump compliance. They have virtually no effect on the area around sag. 
I usually drop 5 psi for a spacer. You still need to keep an eye on sag and travel used. I'm heavy and ride aggressive so I need progression to keep from harsh bottom outs. I use spaces to get the sag that I like and bottom out resistance.

If you are using all your travel but don't have enough sag and the small bump feel harsh. Add spacers and lower pressure 3-5 psi.

If you have lots of sag and can't use all your travel. Remove spacers and raise you pressure 3-5 psi.

I aim to use 95% on the biggest hits. Don't be afaid to play with settings. Change something and do the better, same or worse. Better do more of the same. Worse go the other way. Bracket it and the first place to start is your spring. Pressure and volume, then work on damper.


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## jaydoc (Dec 24, 2014)

Just ordered a Yeti SB 130 frame to build up. Looking forward to the build. I received the grip2 Fox 36 yesterday. In looking ahead at initial settings for my weight, I get VERY different suggestions from the Yeti and Fox websites. I would understand little variations based upon the performance of the particular bike geometry etc, but this is quite far off from one another. Setting PSI to get my sag is easy, but the rest I would like to have a good starting point on! Here are what they said:

Yeti
PSI 86
LSC 13
LSR 10
HSC 16
HSR 8

Fox
PSI 74
LSC 6
LSR 6
HSC 10 
HSR 5


Thoughts? Split the difference?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

jaydoc said:


> Just ordered a Yeti SB 130 frame to build up. Looking forward to the build. I received the grip2 Fox 36 yesterday. In looking ahead at initial settings for my weight, I get VERY different suggestions from the Yeti and Fox websites. I would understand little variations based upon the performance of the particular bike geometry etc, but this is quite far off from one another. Setting PSI to get my sag is easy, but the rest I would like to have a good starting point on! Here are what they said:
> 
> Yeti
> PSI 86
> ...


What is your weight? I think you might have your numbers off. In my experience, the Fox settings are very firm, more for a racer (not pro-stiff tho). Yeti/Pivot recommendations are usually 5 to 10 PSI below. (more in some cases).

This is the link to the 36 setup guide:
https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=938


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## jaydoc (Dec 24, 2014)

175 lbs. My numbers seem to match the fox recommendations from your link. Seems crazy the Yeti recs would be so different.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

jaydoc said:


> Just ordered a Yeti SB 130 frame to build up. Looking forward to the build. I received the grip2 Fox 36 yesterday. In looking ahead at initial settings for my weight, I get VERY different suggestions from the Yeti and Fox websites. I would understand little variations based upon the performance of the particular bike geometry etc, but this is quite far off from one another. Setting PSI to get my sag is easy, but the rest I would like to have a good starting point on! Here are what they said:
> 
> Yeti
> PSI 86
> ...


We are pretty much the same weight, use the settings I posted earlier in about 15 posts ago as a starting point imo.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

minimusprime said:


> We are pretty much the same weight, use the settings I posted earlier in about 15 posts ago as a starting point imo.


What % of sag are those settings giving you?


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## Kelvinbenedictmtb (May 10, 2019)

Hopefully, the image shows. This graph shows what I was talking about (tokens reducing small bump). It is slightly extreme but still shows the idea that the more tokens that there is the stiffer the spring rate is for the section of travel that is used for small bumps. This is one of the downsides of reducing pressure AND adding tokens. Again it is a little extreme.


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## Kelvinbenedictmtb (May 10, 2019)

svinyard said:


> Is it usually more LSC/LSR to help with small bump (within reason) or on the lesser side? I'm interested in more detail regarding that.


LSC is not as separate from HSC as a lot of people think. Sometimes the harshness that you are feeling is actually tied to excessive LSC dampening.
In relations to rebound soemtimes, the harshness that you feel stems from not enough rebound. Basically, the rebound is not adequate to push the fork back before the next bump. This result is the fork packing in and the bumps affecting a stiffer part of the spring rate/stroke causing the harshness.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Kelvinbenedictmtb said:


> LSC is not as separate from HSC as a lot of people think. Sometimes the harshness that you are feeling is actually tied to excessive LSC dampening.
> In relations to rebound soemtimes, the harshness that you feel stems from not enough rebound. Basically, the rebound is not adequate to push the fork back before the next bump. This result is the fork packing in and the bumps affecting a stiffer part of the spring rate/stroke causing the harshness.


You are mixed up with the rebound and your terms are incorrect. Too much rebound can cause packing as it's restricting the fork extending quickly enough. Rebound never pushes the fork, it controls the speed of fork extension.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

The other day when i was riding Saalbach/Hinterglemm, it was full of braking bumps all over the place as well as holes from the rain. After half day or so rinding in that conditions the front felt too harsh, resulting to much pain in my hands...
In the same time the rear shock was plush, glued to the ground and tracked really good (its DPX2 on Bronson v3).

End of the day i still had 25% (40mm) unused travel on my fork. Im having 160mm Fox 36 with Grip 1, using open mode, 41 psi that give me 28-30% sag, one volume spacer & 11 clicks of rebound from close (slow). 
Since i don't have separate LSC\HSC, what can i do to take this harshness off and make it more balanced with my rear? making the rebound a bit faster or maybe a bit slower? taking out the volume spacer? or maybe changing to smaller spacer (if its exists)? More psi/less sag?


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

You're running way too low of pressure unless you're like 130 lbs. It's harsh because you're staying down in the travel where the air spring ramps up. Take out the token and use the Fox recommended pressure and rebound settings.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

I think its not rebound or air spring issue. Probably too much compression. Anyway watch scotty video how fast he gets handpain on bergstadl trail. I had xf sweep, pike, boxxer team coil. All ruin my hands. Boxxer gets proper tune wich helps a lot for my 150lbs. Now I own also mattoc. Which is very light damped on compression. Paired with fast rebound I can ride longer without pain, but at the end of the day Im ruined anyway  To improve train your hands with pullups and hanging on bar.




Also just try different psi and other settings. Its more like set and test to find whats best for you. Just go with rebound from too slow to too fast. Focus on feeling bumps and settle on best settings. Its always compromise.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

Andeh said:


> You're running way too low of pressure unless you're like 130 lbs. It's harsh because you're staying down in the travel where the air spring ramps up. Take out the token and use the Fox recommended pressure and rebound settings.


Im 59kg\130 lbs, and 41 psi gives me 28-30% sag. I started with Fox recommended pressure (55 psi\20% sag) and 12 clicks of rebound from close\slow, but was too harsh and too fast, at list on my local trails that are less intense (and shorter).

Monday i'll go to my LBS to take out the volume spacer (dont have the right tool to do so), and will try Fox recommended settings again, hopefully it will help.



nikon255 said:


> I think its not rebound or air spring issue. Probably too much compression. Anyway watch scotty video how fast he gets handpain on bergstadl trail. I had xf sweep, pike, boxxer team coil. All ruin my hands. Boxxer gets proper tune wich helps a lot for my 150lbs. Now I own also mattoc. Which is very light damped on compression. Paired with fast rebound I can ride longer without pain, but at the end of the day Im ruined anyway  To improve train your hands with pullups and hanging on bar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unfortunately i cant adjust LSC\HSC with the Grip1... im trying to do the best i can with what im having at the moment till i can afford upgrading to Grip 2 damper.

Funny that you mentioned that trail, the Hacklberg\bergstadl trail is one of my favorite over there.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Im going Saalbach in few days. Im hoping there will be no Myddy-Runs  In my opinion dont get grip2. Better tune this one with push or vorsprung. If you want spend more money get avy. Grip2 is also overdamped for light riders. Im just taking out shims from damper if needed. It worked well with vivid also somehow with charger, but its more complicated.


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## DeeGeeCee (Jan 20, 2019)

*36 graph*



Kelvinbenedictmtb said:


> Hopefully, the image shows. This graph shows what I was talking about (tokens reducing small bump). It is slightly extreme but still shows the idea that the more tokens that there is the stiffer the spring rate is for the section of travel that is used for small bumps. This is one of the downsides of reducing pressure AND adding tokens. Again it is a little extreme.


The better graph to use is the actual Fox one which is for the 36, i feel no difference till at least 1/3 way through the travel with 2 tokens vs. zero tokens. As of late:
160mm
no tokens
82 psi.
HSC 12
LSC 8
HSR 6
LSR 5


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

DeeGeeCee said:


> The better graph to use is the actual Fox one which is for the 36, i feel no difference till at least 1/3 way through the travel with 2 tokens vs. zero tokens. As of late:
> 160mm
> no tokens
> 82 psi.
> ...


How are you liking that setup? Anything you dont like? What made you take the token out? FWIW Ed at Fox mentioned that he takes the token out of a lot of 36's as the stock settings etc are very much designed and setup for Enduro riding/racing but that not everyone is riding like that all the time.

I'm finding that 80psi and similar damping and my 185lbs and 150mm of travel never has me coming close to bottoming out. It starts to get pretty harsh near 75% of travel. I'm not an expert at this tho and am still working through settings. I did ride the Pivot recommended setup (65psi) and that was fine but did sag quite a lot. Seemed a little too squishy tho off the top.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

A few things here-

Both grip dampers use a dished piston so don’t behave the same as a flat one. 
Changes to the shims doesn’t alter the damping in the way you would have calculated, and results are similar to changing the preload. So once you’re at zero preload, removing shims won’t really make it much softer. This is because an unpreloaded shim stack will begin opening at least a tiny bit at very low speed, and with a dished piston the full circumference of the valve is available to flow oil as soon as the shims crack open a tiny amount.

Grip1 has very very little high speed compression but fairly strong low speed, you can “clock” the adjuster an extra half turn open to get more compliance but it will be even more wildly under damped in high speed

Grip2 is the same but the adjustable low speed means it can be set plenty soft as it is.


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## yeti0200 (Mar 28, 2019)

JohnnyC7 said:


> A few things here-
> 
> Both grip dampers use a dished piston so don't behave the same as a flat one.
> Changes to the shims doesn't alter the damping in the way you would have calculated, and results are similar to changing the preload. So once you're at zero preload, removing shims won't really make it much softer. This is because an unpreloaded shim stack will begin opening at least a tiny bit at very low speed, and with a dished piston the full circumference of the valve is available to flow oil as soon as the shims crack open a tiny amount.
> ...


Hi Johnny, can you explain why the grip1 would have less HSC than the grip 2? The 2019 drawings show the same piston PN for both, and the only difference between the shim stack is that the grip 1 doesn't have the two smaller diameter shims between the piston and the 4 larger 13.6mm OD shims.

I have the grip 2 and tried to make my fork more plush by taking out one of the larger diameter shims, unfortunately i had a few weeks between rides so i didn't get a good back to back comparison, but i don't think i noticed much of a reduction in damping force. So in your opinion taking out another wouldn't have an affect?

Even if the shims are unpreloaded wouldn't less shims allow for more shim deflection, more flow and less damping force?

How would a grip 2 be tuned then to be softer/more plush? by modifying the size of the holes in the piston?

Last question is can the Grip1 topcap be installed in a grip 2 damper?


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## DeeGeeCee (Jan 20, 2019)

*set up*



svinyard said:


> How are you liking that setup? Anything you dont like? What made you take the token out? FWIW Ed at Fox mentioned that he takes the token out of a lot of 36's as the stock settings etc are very much designed and setup for Enduro riding/racing but that not everyone is riding like that all the time.
> 
> I'm finding that 80psi and similar damping and my 185lbs and 150mm of travel never has me coming close to bottoming out. It starts to get pretty harsh near 75% of travel. I'm not an expert at this tho and am still working through settings. I did ride the Pivot recommended setup (65psi) and that was fine but did sag quite a lot. Seemed a little too squishy tho off the top.


I was not getting the last 15mm of travel, so i took the token out. If you still are not getting near full travel, try it with no tokens. For most trail riders i think that works pretty good. I think 65 psi. is a bit low for 160 travel, but what is the travel set up of your fork? I am the same weight as you, after today i am settling on 78-80 psi., HSC 11, LSC 8, HSR 5, LSR 4-5, no token. Today's ride.... lots of small to medium trail drops and big rock, techy, steeps, high speed straights into duffy corners, and i got everything but the last 3mm, in my mind that is dead on. Overall the fork rides well controlled. 
Also, consider everyone rides different. Results will differ.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

yeti0200 said:


> Hi Johnny, can you explain why the grip1 would have less HSC than the grip 2? The 2019 drawings show the same piston PN for both, and the only difference between the shim stack is that the grip 1 doesn't have the two smaller diameter shims between the piston and the 4 larger 13.6mm OD shims.
> 
> I have the grip 2 and tried to make my fork more plush by taking out one of the larger diameter shims, unfortunately i had a few weeks between rides so i didn't get a good back to back comparison, but i don't think i noticed much of a reduction in damping force. So in your opinion taking out another wouldn't have an affect?
> 
> ...


It's hard to compare different dampers as less/more damping specifically but assuming the HSC adjuster is in its softest setting they both have very little HSC. I don't think I said Grip 1 had less? If anything the Grip 2 is easier to be adjusted softer overall

The thing about a dished piston is you only need a tiny fraction of deflection to open a large flow area, and if you think of a shim stack like a spring, it is going to move some distance with even a small load, regardless of rate. This type of damper specifically works by altering the preload or opening force to build more damping. I think if you read the Manitou Mcleod tuning thread they use a similar style of adjuster and don't suggest changing those shims for the same reason. The piston ports are already very large too so I would be looking elsewhere for your tuning

In my experience Grip 2 can already be set as soft as anyone would humanly need so its almost impossible to make it create any less damping. (eg in the softest compression setting it makes around 9lb of force @ 1m/s) if you are looking for more "plushness" from your 36 I would be lookingat friction or a spring upgrade eg Vorsprung Luftkappe

The compression assemblies might be interchangeable....don't know for sure though


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yeti0200 said:


> Hi Johnny, can you explain why the grip1 would have less HSC than the grip 2? The 2019 drawings show the same piston PN for both, and *the only difference between the shim stack is that the grip 1 doesn't have the two smaller diameter shims between the piston and the 4 larger 13.6mm OD shims*.
> 
> I have the grip 2 and tried to make my fork more plush by taking out one of the larger diameter shims, unfortunately i had a few weeks between rides so i didn't get a good back to back comparison, but i don't think i noticed much of a reduction in damping force. So in your opinion taking out another wouldn't have an affect?
> 
> ...


The bit up there in bold^^. The support shims can make a big difference to how a shim stack flexes.


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## yeti0200 (Mar 28, 2019)

JohnnyC7 said:


> It's hard to compare different dampers as less/more damping specifically but assuming the HSC adjuster is in its softest setting they both have very little HSC. I don't think I said Grip 1 had less? If anything the Grip 2 is easier to be adjusted softer overall
> 
> The thing about a dished piston is you only need a tiny fraction of deflection to open a large flow area, and if you think of a shim stack like a spring, it is going to move some distance with even a small load, regardless of rate. This type of damper specifically works by altering the preload or opening force to build more damping. I think if you read the Manitou Mcleod tuning thread they use a similar style of adjuster and don't suggest changing those shims for the same reason. The piston ports are already very large too so I would be looking elsewhere for your tuning
> 
> ...


Thanks. I just misunderstood you when you said Grip1 has very little hsc, my mistake. This makes sense and I'll probably just leave it as is then as long as having removed 1 shim is not a problem. Kind of a pain in the ass to take it apart.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

yeti0200 said:


> Thanks. I just misunderstood you when you said Grip1 has very little hsc, my mistake. This makes sense and I'll probably just leave it as is then as long as having removed 1 shim is not a problem. Kind of a pain in the ass to take it apart.


 Yeah it's fine, the only change will be each click you add won't be as hard as before so no bad thing


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

DeeGeeCee said:


> I was not getting the last 15mm of travel, so i took the token out. If you still are not getting near full travel, try it with no tokens. For most trail riders i think that works pretty good. I think 65 psi. is a bit low for 160 travel, but what is the travel set up of your fork? I am the same weight as you, after today i am settling on 78-80 psi., HSC 11, LSC 8, HSR 5, LSR 4-5, no token. Today's ride.... lots of small to medium trail drops and big rock, techy, steeps, high speed straights into duffy corners, and i got everything but the last 3mm, in my mind that is dead on. Overall the fork rides well controlled.
> Also, consider everyone rides different. Results will differ.


Yeah my spring is a 150mm spring and I'm in a similar position as you but prob using even less travel at 80psi. Any issues with the fork diving or anything like that?


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## DeeGeeCee (Jan 20, 2019)

svinyard said:


> Yeah my spring is a 150mm spring and I'm in a similar position as you but prob using even less travel at 80psi. Any issues with the fork diving or anything like that?


Not really, the fork rides fairly high in its travel for me.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Finally i'm the proud FOX36 owner.
Can You guys share on is this worth to upgrade Grip2 (which is already very good) to Luftkappe?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

I've sold lots of luftkappes to Grip2 owners who have been very happy with them


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Placek said:


> Finally i'm the proud FOX36 owner.
> Can You guys share on is this worth to upgrade Grip2 (which is already very good) to Luftkappe?


Yes.

I thought the stock grip 2 was awesome. The fork went from Awesome to
Amazeballz with the Luftkappe.

Basically, it gave me more suppleness off the top, allowed me to run higher pressure and less compression damping and the fork felt a touch better with a few clicks less rebound damping.
Overall, less fatigue on long runs and seems to allow me to push the fork a touch harder.
Vital did a great review of the luftkappe recently that I thought was spot on.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Placek said:


> Finally i'm the proud FOX36 owner.
> Can You guys share on is this worth to upgrade Grip2 (which is already very good) to Luftkappe?


Luftkappe is a noticeable and positive upgrade. I highly recommend it.
Notes:
You need to be using at least 1 spacer. You need to remove at least 1, but most likely 2 spacers or the fork will be too progressive.
You lose 3-5mm of top out as it is now tops out on air instead of a bumper. This makes the initial stoke super sensitive.


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## yeti0200 (Mar 28, 2019)

Comments on the vital review are great too:

https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/gu...g/Luftkappe,24533#product-reviews/3578/expand

In general I agree that running lower pressure/more spacers is going to make the fork feel awful, both wallowy and harsh. I've finally been able to get my fork to feel better by using .... the recommended fox pressure and 0 spacers lol.

For that reason i'm hesitant to try the luftkappe since it essentially adds a spacer, might try it anyway though.


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## Hazenhart (Jun 27, 2018)

Revisiting this thread after several months of riding. After finding my brand new fork feeling a bit harsh at the Fox recommended settings, I started running it with one additional spacer and a lower pressure (65 psi for a 190 lb dressed to ride), with HSC and LSC tweaked to suit (generally running quite a bit of LSC damping). For most of last season and the beginning of this season everything felt plush yet supportive. A month or so ago I started noticing my sag ring sitting higher on the stanchion after rides, and then a few recent big hits getting me to within mm's of full travel--things felt more compliant overall, but I seemed to be blowing through travel more than last season. Still running the same pressure. Has anyone else experienced this? I am thinking the fork has "loosened up." 
I have since done a full lower leg plus air spring service, and am now back to hunting for the ideal settings. Back up to 75 psi and Fox damping settings....


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

TamiJean said:


> Also I took this picture of the fork bottomed out with no air. For those not using all the travel this might be way. Idk if there is a little bumper that will compress the rest of the way but here's that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I changed the oil in mine and after the rebuild I also have 1cm of exposed stanchions at full compression. I measure travel at 155mm and I'm certain I used to get the extra 5mm before changing the oil... I never felt a hard bottom out though and with the fork open, spring and damper removed, I can confirm it bottoms out on the bumper in the lowers. I'm not sure what could have changed during the rebuild, maybe the bumpers moved around? Is this a problem and is it common?

Edit: I did add volume spacers during the rebuild FWIW. Originally one, then bumped to two yesterday... I might revert to zero after some riding.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

the 36 will bottom before the o-ring hits the CSU. There is about 10mm of stanchion that will be left showing at bottom out.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Funny I had a little extra travel before. Perhaps the oring was simply sliding up when riding. So it's a 155mm fork then... :/

Thanks


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

PissedOffCil said:


> Funny I had a little extra travel before. Perhaps the oring was simply sliding up when riding. So it's a 155mm fork then... :/
> 
> Thanks


It's a 160mm fork that utilizes a bottom out bumper and sags under the static weight of the bike a small amount. IE, it's a normal fork, just like every other fork on the market.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

minimusprime said:


> It's a 160mm fork that utilizes a bottom out bumper and sags under the static weight of the bike a small amount. IE, it's a normal fork, just like every other fork on the market.


The fork was in the stand when I measured it at 155mm usable travel.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Mine on the bike is at about 145mm (150mm spring). I sent it into Fox for something else and asked about this exact thing. They went through the Fork entirely and said all is great with it.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

So the last 5 is the bottom out bumper I guess.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

PissedOffCil said:


> So the last 5 is the bottom out bumper I guess.


Not really. Its just sucking down 5mm of the fork. You can go grab it and manually pull it apart. The air springs larger Neg chamber is pulling it in just a little. This creates the extra plushness over previous designs iirc.

That being said, can anyone with the Vorspring Luckfanka (however you spell it ) comment on how much usable travel you get?

I'd also be interested in how firm it is in the mid-stroke. At the moment the stock spring at 78psi & my 185lbs is too firm for my riding in the midstroke (1 token and 150mm of travel spring). Its fine off the top for the most part.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

You're right. Thanks. Reminds me of when I used to run slightly higher neg pressure on a Reba DualAir to get past initial stiction... I liked the DualAir spring.



svinyard said:


> Not really. Its just sucking down 5mm of the fork. You can go grab it and manually pull it apart. The air springs larger Neg chamber is pulling it in just a little. This creates the extra plushness over previous designs iirc.
> 
> That being said, can anyone with the Vorspring Luckfanka (however you spell it ) comment on how much usable travel you get?
> 
> I'd also be interested in how firm it is in the mid-stroke. At the moment the stock spring at 78psi & my 185lbs is too firm for my riding in the midstroke (1 token and 150mm of travel spring). Its fine off the top for the most part.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

How does grip2 compare to MRP air shock? 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## rock-rod (Sep 3, 2012)

alexbn921 said:


> Luftkappe is a noticeable and positive upgrade. I highly recommend it.
> Notes:
> You need to be using at least 1 spacer. You need to remove at least 1, but most likely 2 spacers or the fork will be too progressive.
> You lose 3-5mm of top out as it is now tops out on air instead of a bumper. This makes the initial stoke super sensitive.


the ACS coil conversion is even better.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

PissedOffCil said:


> You're right. Thanks. Reminds me of when I used to run slightly higher neg pressure on a Reba DualAir to get past initial stiction... I liked the DualAir spring.


My suspicion is that with self equalising systems like The FOx 36, Pike, etc, the negative chamber ends up getting filled with air which is at a slightly higher pressure than the positive chamber.

E.g. you run your fork at 60psi positive when topped out. When you press the fork down into its travel, by the time the piston clears the transfer port, the air that enters the negative chamber is already higher than 60psi since your fork is partly compressed. At a guess it would be somewhere between 60-70psi.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

You are most likely right.



teK-- said:


> My suspicion is that with self equalising systems like The FOx 36, Pike, etc, the negative chamber ends up getting filled with air which is at a slightly higher pressure than the positive chamber.
> 
> E.g. you run your fork at 60psi positive when topped out. When you press the fork down into its travel, by the time the piston clears the transfer port, the air that enters the negative chamber is already higher than 60psi since your fork is partly compressed. At a guess it would be somewhere between 60-70psi.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

teK-- said:


> My suspicion is that with self equalising systems like The FOx 36, Pike, etc, the negative chamber ends up getting filled with air which is at a slightly higher pressure than the positive chamber.
> 
> E.g. you run your fork at 60psi positive when topped out. When you press the fork down into its travel, by the time the piston clears the transfer port, the air that enters the negative chamber is already higher than 60psi since your fork is partly compressed. At a guess it would be somewhere between 60-70psi.


I'm guessing there is some truth to this, either way the fork works well even with my bike sagging it 5mm.

That being said, if you are airing the fork down and adding air in, then ensure its done at 15psi at a time & cycle it 5 or 10 times and repeat until desired pressure is reached. This helps prevent over-pressurizing the Neg chamber.


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## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

alexbn921 said:


> Luftkappe is a noticeable and positive upgrade. I highly recommend it.
> Notes:
> You need to be using at least 1 spacer. You need to remove at least 1, but most likely 2 spacers or the fork will be too progressive.
> You lose 3-5mm of top out as it is now tops out on air instead of a bumper. This makes the initial stoke super sensitive.


You really don't "need" to be using 1 spacer. My 36 at 160 mm had no spacer prior to the LK install, and even after installing the LK and bumping up the air pressure by 5 psi I still found I could bottom it out on larger impacts, while it will now offer noticeably better mid-stroke support.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

well guys. how does fox Grip 2 compare to MRP ribbon coil?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Crossmaxx said:


> You really don't "need" to be using 1 spacer. My 36 at 160 mm had no spacer prior to the LK install, and even after installing the LK and bumping up the air pressure by 5 psi I still found I could bottom it out on larger impacts, while it will now offer noticeably better mid-stroke support.


Does it consume any usable travel...as in it does provide the full 160mm now, but is better still?


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Picard said:


> well guys. how does fox Grip 2 compare to MRP ribbon coil?


I've had both and the standard Grip2 is better than the Ribbon. With a Luftkappe installed in the Fox its miles better.
I had issues with tons of stiction in the Ribbon.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

robmac48 said:


> I've had both and the standard Grip2 is better than the Ribbon. With a Luftkappe installed in the Fox its miles better.
> I had issues with tons of stiction in the Ribbon.


Thanks for the update

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

svinyard said:


> Does it consume any usable travel...as in it does provide the full 160mm now, but is better still?


Yes, I am still able to use full travel, but I would say that it says higher in its travel than prior to LK.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

why do you guys setup HCS so low at 87PSI ? shouldn't it be higher?
I setup up my my rockshok pike at nearly 150PSI to avoid bottom out.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

svinyard said:


> Does it consume any usable travel...as in it does provide the full 160mm now, but is better still?


Per Vorsprung FAQ:
*9. Who is this NOT suited for?*
The Luftkappe is outright superior to the stock air spring for nearly everyone, however there are a few cases where it might not be for you:
- If you run your 36 at 180mm, it will be quite progressive. You may like it, but you may also find it hard to use the last 5-10mm of travel - if this would bother you then have a think about it first. At 170mm and below it will be fine.
- If you like running really low sag for some reason. The Luftkappe runs more sag than the stock fork, but is firmer in the mid stroke - similar to a coil fork, but with ending-stroke ramp up to prevent harsh bottoming. If you're the kind of person who wants the fork to run 5% sag, this isn't for you. We could point out that a setup like that probably just means your handlebars are set too low and you're compensating with oversprung suspension, but we aren't here to judge you, so maybe just don't buy it.
*- If you're anal about your fork having an exact (but rounded-to-the-nearest-10mm) amount of travel. Because the Luftkappe balances forces at a pneumatic topout, the force right around topout is very low (literally zero other than friction), meaning the weight of the bike alone will cause it to sag a few millimetres. Your car's suspension sags under the vehicle's own weight, so should your bike - unless it was so sticky, overly stiff or over-preloaded that 10kg of bike weight wasn't enough to cause your suspension to move at all, of course. If only having an apparent 148mm out of a 150mm fork is a big deal for you, stick with the stock fork.*


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Andeh said:


> Per Vorsprung FAQ:
> *9. Who is this NOT suited for?*
> The Luftkappe is outright superior to the stock air spring for nearly everyone, however there are a few cases where it might not be for you:
> - If you run your 36 at 180mm, it will be quite progressive. You may like it, but you may also find it hard to use the last 5-10mm of travel - if this would bother you then have a think about it first. At 170mm and below it will be fine.
> ...


Got it, thank you! I was just curious if it ate into it a bunch more (not off the top but off the bottom). For me the stock fork sags into itself 5mm anyways, so I'm good with that and like it.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

does anybody know if fox 36 performance elite grip2 29' could be streched from 160 to 170 with new spring assy? Does damper allow for this?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> does anybody know if fox 36 performance elite grip2 29' could be streched from 160 to 170 with new spring assy? Does damper allow for this?


yes it does.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

minimusprime said:


> yes it does.


Thanks! thats great


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## cesjr (Jul 13, 2011)

How is the GRIP2 for lighter riders? I weigh 135. On my 2017 Fox 36 with FIT 4, I’m running only 50 psi and no rebound damping so no adjustability and my ShockWiz says to reduce HSC a lot which I obviously can’t do. Was thinking about Vorspung fractive for the FIT4 but with installation it’s as much as buying the GRIP 2 and that won’t solve the rebound range. GRIP2 I can install myself but with fractive I would need to buy a bunch of $$ for softjaws and it aint easy. I’ve read that HSR on the GRIP2 effectively changes the range of the LSR adjustment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

cesjr said:


> How is the GRIP2 for lighter riders? I weigh 135. On my 2017 Fox 36 with FIT 4, I'm running only 50 psi and no rebound damping so no adjustability and my ShockWiz says to reduce HSC a lot which I obviously can't do. Was thinking about Vorspung fractive for the FIT4 but with installation it's as much as buying the GRIP 2 and that won't solve the rebound range. GRIP2 I can install myself but with fractive I would need to buy a bunch of $$ for softjaws and it aint easy. I've read that HSR on the GRIP2 effectively changes the range of the LSR adjustment.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


At that weight you're going to be running all the damping adjustments wide open. If it's still too firm/slow, you will need to get the damper revalved if you want more adjustment range.


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## 7four8 (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm lighter then you and the biggest difference was adding gsr piston (same as luftkappe) I then upgraded to grip2 and dont notice a difference. Shockwiz still tells me to dial in less HSC even wide open. If I did it again I would get my fit4 revalved. Fox just posted a softer kit for the fit4. I bet a service and revalve is cheaper then grip2. Last year I talked to fox and they told me to send it in for service and revalve. I think it was $150


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

Hey guys. Anyone have a air spring at hand from one of these forks? I'd like to know the diameter of the piston and the X-ring. And also the total lenght of the shaft (ofcourse I need to know the travel amount it is for). So I can machine a piston(POM plastic ofcourse) for my girlfriends 36 for when I service it. Millimeters please, I'm a metric guy.


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## jetrick07 (May 29, 2019)

Hi guys,

May I know how many sag are you running? I want my Grip2 to have a very good small bump sensitivity. I currently run the recommended settings from Fox.


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## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

jetrick07 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> May I know how many sag are you running? I want my Grip2 to have a very good small bump sensitivity. I currently run the recommended settings from Fox.


Likely you need less compression damping than fox recommends for your preferred feel. And if you're serious about small bump...

https://vorsprungsuspension.com/products/vorsprung-luftkappe-fox-34-36


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## gramboh (Nov 7, 2018)

jetrick07 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> May I know how many sag are you running? I want my Grip2 to have a very good small bump sensitivity. I currently run the recommended settings from Fox.


I run about 18%, hard to measure really accurately but it's less than 20% I'd say. 93-95psi @ 200lbs naked weight. As others have said, try backing off compression settings for better small bump. LSC makes a difference even though I'd argue small bump is a high shaft speed event (braking bumps, trail chatter etc).

I've read a couple really good reviews of the Luftkappe on the newest 36 with newest EVOL which kind of surprised me. On the Rock Shox side people generally say the newest Debonair spring is good enough to not bother with Luftkappe whereas they are saying it blows the EVOL out of the water. I had a Luftkappe on my 2017 Pike and it was amazing, so might chuck one in the 36 next year at service time.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Can anyone confirm how many clicks of Lsr and hsr they have please?

My lsr I have around 16 clicks and hsr I have around 9 clicks

For some reason when I first had them I seem to remember both had around 9? It's 2018/19 grip2

Thanks


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

16 & 8 here, which matches what it's supposed to have.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Andeh said:


> 16 & 8 here, which matches what it's supposed to have.


Thanks so much for putting my mind at ease


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

Having a sag related question, 
My Fox 36 160mm having a 'drop\dive in' as soon as im putting tiny bit of weight on the bar, without the drop its 170mm (im guessing its a common thing with Fox forks). The thing is, even after full day at the bike park, im still having 30-35mm of unused travel, that means im using around 130mm out of the 160mm im having... so i was wondering if my sag is correct since i would like to use a bit more travel. 

At the moment im running it with 46psi and no volume spacer, that gives me without the 'drop' 28-30% sag, and with the 'drop' 25%, that setting feels good, special since i toke out the volume spacer... should i leave it as is even though im not using the full travel or should i take out another psi or two?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Muddy-Runs said:


> Having a sag related question,
> My Fox 36 160mm having a 'drop\dive in' as soon as im putting tiny bit of weight on the bar, without the drop its 170mm (im guessing its a common thing with Fox forks). The thing is, even after full day at the bike park, im still having 30-35mm of unused travel, that means im using around 130mm out of the 160mm im having... so i was wondering if my sag is correct since i would like to use a bit more travel.
> 
> At the moment im running it with 46psi and no volume spacer, that gives me without the 'drop' 28-30% sag, and with the 'drop' 25%, that setting feels good, special since i toke out the volume spacer... should i leave it as is even though im not using the full travel or should i take out another psi or two?


A lot of those numbers are very confusing. What is your weight? 46psi is insanely low, for reference, I'm running 80 psi at 180lbs geared. To be running 46 psi you'd have to weigh some where around 80-100 lbs ready to ride.

I'm guessing that there is several things at play. 
#1 - IMO you're running too much sag. You should be around 20% - 25% max for your fork, typically. 
#2 - I'm guessing your fork needs as lower leg service and you have a significant amount of seal/bushing drag and stiction. 
#3 - The grip 2 does not use all of the stanchion that is showing to bottom it out. There will always be 7-10mm left.
#4 - what are your damper settings?


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

minimusprime said:


> A lot of those numbers are very confusing. What is your weight? 46psi is insanely low, for reference, I'm running 80 psi at 180lbs geared. To be running 46 psi you'd have to weigh some where around 80-100 lbs ready to ride.
> 
> I'm guessing that there is several things at play.
> #1 - IMO you're running too much sag. You should be around 20% - 25% max for your fork, typically.
> ...


My weight is 58kg (62-63kg ready to ride).
46psi gives me 30% sag or 25% sag (without the 'dive in' part). When i had more psi (plus the volume spacer) i used even less travel and it felt harsh.

I thought about service, maybe this will help... will do so in couple of month when i'll upgrade to Grip 2 (forgot to mention im still with Grip 1).

As for my settings - 
46psi
0 volume spacer
open mode
11 clicks rebound from close.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

30% sag on a fork is too much. Fox recommends 15-20%. That "slack" you're describing sounds like a combination of stiction and too little pressure. The stiction is causing it to bind up on breakaway. It's still feeling harsh to you because you're starting about 10% further into your travel than what is designed, and getting into the end stroke ramp up sooner.

That said, you are really light, well below the normal user range for basically every stock damper, which is why it's not working for you. I have 2 friends who weigh about 68 kg with gear, and both had to have their GRIP2 forks worked on by Fox & Push, to have the compression shim stack adjusted for their weights. New ultra low friction seals and better oil will help you too.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Andeh said:


> 30% sag on a fork is too much. Fox recommends 15-20%. That "slack" you're describing sounds like a combination of stiction and too little pressure. The stiction is causing it to bind up on breakaway. It's still feeling harsh to you because you're starting about 10% further into your travel than what is designed, and getting into the end stroke ramp up sooner.
> 
> That said, you are really light, well below the normal user range for basically every stock damper, which is why it's not working for you. I have 2 friends who weigh about 68 kg with gear, and both had to have their GRIP2 forks worked on by Fox & Push, to have the compression shim stack adjusted for their weights. New ultra low friction seals and better oil will help you too.


100% correct. at 140psi, you should be running the fork completely open in almost every regard. You need at most, 1-2 clicks of rebound from full open. (I only said full open because I don't know how many clicks of rebound adjustment the grip 1 damper has on the 36... but you'll barely need any).

You will need to have the fork re-valved for it to work for your weight. And yes, you are running way too much sag, which is causing it to be harsher as Andeh said, you are hitting the ramp up too soon. It's going to feel harsh because you're so light. That's just how it is, make sure to run enough pressure so it's not harsh because of damping and because of air spring.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

minimusprime said:


> 100% correct. at 140psi, you should be running the fork completely open in almost every regard. You need at most, 1-2 clicks of rebound from full open. (I only said full open because I don't know how many clicks of rebound adjustment the grip 1 damper has on the 36... but you'll barely need any).
> 
> You will need to have the fork re-valved for it to work for your weight. And yes, you are running way too much sag, which is causing it to be harsher as Andeh said, you are hitting the ramp up too soon. It's going to feel harsh because you're so light. That's just how it is, make sure to run enough pressure so it's not harsh because of damping and because of air spring.





Andeh said:


> 30% sag on a fork is too much. Fox recommends 15-20%. That "slack" you're describing sounds like a combination of stiction and too little pressure. The stiction is causing it to bind up on breakaway. It's still feeling harsh to you because you're starting about 10% further into your travel than what is designed, and getting into the end stroke ramp up sooner.
> 
> That said, you are really light, well below the normal user range for basically every stock damper, which is why it's not working for you. I have 2 friends who weigh about 68 kg with gear, and both had to have their GRIP2 forks worked on by Fox & Push, to have the compression shim stack adjusted for their weights. New ultra low friction seals and better oil will help you too.


I guess im a bit too light, thats why more sag feels better, at least up to certain point... hopefully service with light tune and Grip 2 will make the fork works as good as my shock...

For the time being, you think going back to 20-25% sag can help with the harshness, even thou i'll be using less travel?

I started with 20% sag (55psi), one volume spacer, but the front felt really harsh and i didn't use much travel. Once i took out the spacer and added more sag, the harshness started to disappear, i used a bit more travel, but still its not how i would like it to feel and work.

As for the rebound, i started with 13 clicks from close (Grip 1 got 22 clicks, but i think the last few clicks not affecting..), but it was a bit too bouncy. Went down to 11 clicks and its still fast enough without the bouncy feeling.

Should i be concern about how much travel im using out of the 160mm fork, or just focus on how it works n' feel?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

If you are having trouble using all of your travel and adjusting the suspension for too much sag, then It will be worth taking the fork apart and checking the air spring. Cleaning out the negative chamber and making sure everything is moving freely. Also you may have air trapped in the lowers that significantly changes your spring rate.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Muddy-Runs said:


> I guess im a bit too light, thats why more sag feels better, at least up to certain point... hopefully service with light tune and Grip 2 will make the fork works as good as my shock...
> 
> For the time being, you think going back to 20-25% sag can help with the harshness, even thou i'll be using less travel?
> 
> ...


In my opinion, all of the 36's ride a smidge harsh when setup "properly". These forks seem to prefer to ride high in the travel and that's going to leave small bump performance on the harsh side. That is, unless you're 200lbs or you're a pro-am rider or better that can put tons of energy into the fork and needs that damping.

To that end, I do think you'd be better off with 50-55 psi, no volume spacers and a smidge of harshness. I'm not a use all of the travel all of the time type of guy. On my megatower, I don't want to see full travel used unless I go off the biggest features I plan to go off on that bike, and I screw up and need all of the Oh **** capacity the bike has. To that end, I expect to have 10mm - 15mm of travel left on a normal trail ride where I am not actively pushing my limits over and over.

In my opinion, there is an optimum setup for the hardware and my riding style and chosen trails/features. There is always room for small adjustments within that window, for example, if I'm riding steeps, maybe an extra 2psi and 1-2 clicks of compression damping helps me keep the bike higher in it's travel as I have more weight on the nose.

Regarding rebound, you are right, the last few clicks of most rebound adjusters on forks and shocks have far less affect then say the first 1/3 - 1/2. I think while there is generally an optimum rebound setting window for a given spring rate (psi with air, actual rate with coil), there is always 1-2 clicks worth of subjective rider opinion on what they are comfortable with. With under 50psi in the fork, I'm a bit surprised to hear you running the rebound adjuster dead nuts in the middle. I would have expected you to be in the -16 to -20 range. However each person is different.

I think that maybe if you end up riding higher in the travel of the fork, you'll need less rebound damping because you won't be digging into those deep stroke returns quite as often. I think that may be one thing at play here is that you're dipping into high speed deep stroke rebound events because you're riding a bit lower in the fork's travel then is optimum from an engineering perspective.

Again, this is all subjective. It sounds like from your rebound setting comment that you are bracketing and trying things on both ends of the spectrum. That is the best practice for finding what works best for you, so write down your settings as a baseline, and experiment away.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

minimusprime said:


> In my opinion, all of the 36's ride a smidge harsh when setup "properly". These forks seem to prefer to ride high in the travel and that's going to leave small bump performance on the harsh side. That is, unless you're 200lbs or you're a pro-am rider or better that can put tons of energy into the fork and needs that damping.
> 
> To that end, I do think you'd be better off with 50-55 psi, no volume spacers and a smidge of harshness. I'm not a use all of the travel all of the time type of guy. On my megatower, I don't want to see full travel used unless I go off the biggest features I plan to go off on that bike, and I screw up and need all of the Oh **** capacity the bike has. To that end, I expect to have 10mm - 15mm of travel left on a normal trail ride where I am not actively pushing my limits over and over.
> 
> ...


Im not trying to use all of the travel all the time. On a normal rides i dont care much, but after a day at the bike park with full tech and freeride lines, i would like to use more travel. At the moment, after day like this, im still having around 30-35mm unused (with 30% sag/46psi)... 
Im trying to get to the point of having 10-15mm for emergency after day like this while keeping it 'plush and supportive', that would be perfect.

About the rebound, i tried Fox recordation, 13 clicks from close, but it felt a bit too bouncy... 2 clicks down did the trick.

I'll continue experiment and try again 48-50psi/less sag and see how it feels. When you said less rebound damping, do you mean closing or opening few clicks?

Tnx for taking your time giving me detailed answer. :thumbsup:


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

Anybody around 250# running the 36 grip2? What's your air pressure?

I am about 250#, running about 105psi with 6 volume spacers at 130mm travel. There is a pretty big variation in air pressure recommendations between Fox, Yeti and Pivot so I am looking for some input. I am going off the recommendation from the setup manual and the fox tech's instructions to "load it up" with volume spacers when setting to 130mm travel.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

the_joe said:


> Anybody around 250# running the 36 grip2? What's your air pressure?
> 
> I am about 250#, running about 105psi with 6 volume spacers at 130mm travel. There is a pretty big variation in air pressure recommendations between Fox, Yeti and Pivot so I am looking for some input. I am going off the recommendation from the setup manual and the fox tech's instructions to "load it up" with volume spacers when setting to 130mm travel.
> View attachment 1284169


Yeti is spot on for me, but different blend of lsc/hsc. At 170mm, 165lbs uses 65psi and 1 token. Notice that your travel needs more tokens. The rest is damping job. Stiffer air spring was spikey on big bumps. Be aware of too little compression, then it could blows thru travel if you charge hard. This is my holy grail of forks! Best performing fork on high freq breaking bumps. So far, all my previous forks gets stunned and handlebar become a vibrator or even spikey vibrator. In result my hands was numb and weak. Going slow feels kinda stiff, but when speed up oh my God  thats what I was looking for last 4 years.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

i've been on the 2018 fox 36 FIT4 with the push acs3 green coil for the past 2 years. and i finally decided to upgrade my damper to the GRIP2 since i need to rebuild/service my fork anyways.

while on my FIT4 damper, i was running 10 clicks of reb and 11 clicks of lsc(both from closed), which is one click slower than what Push recommends. 

those of you with the grip2 and push acs3 coil conversion, what settings are you running and how far do your settings differ from push's recommendation?


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## adhdguy (May 24, 2019)

Knocking sound (air shaft side) on my Fox grip2 29 fork. Anybody knows what that might be? Less that 50 hours on it. 250lbs rider, 105 psi, Lsc all the way open, Hsc all the way open.






Noise coming from fork. Not from steering tube etc.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Wind the HSC fully clockwise until it stops, wind back out 16 clicks and see if that changes it


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## adhdguy (May 24, 2019)

Hi yeah I tried that but no joy. I also released all air, burped air using zip tie trick (quite a bit actually) Knocking sound is still there. Will send it back to YT this week. (They'll fix it for free if it's a warranty issue)


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## neworiginalebiker (Nov 20, 2019)

Hi, is there any experience in setup and upgrade of 36 grip2 E-Bike edition? 

its 2019 160mm travel it comes with 3 volume reducers (green ones of Fox 34)
I've tried also with one and settled meanwhile on two. 

I understand the ebike version has a smaller air shaft (Fox 34mm??) and was wondering about Luftkappe installation.... has anyone installed Luftkappe in Fox 36 EBIKE edition?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

neworiginalebiker said:


> Hi, is there any experience in setup and upgrade of 36 grip2 E-Bike edition?
> 
> its 2019 160mm travel it comes with 3 volume reducers (green ones of Fox 34)
> I've tried also with one and settled meanwhile on two.
> ...


Yes the 34 Evol Luftkappe fits in a 36 E bike fork


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## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Does anyone have a 2020 model? Are last year's issues with clicks etc solved?


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## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

gpgalanis said:


> Does anyone have a 2020 model? Are last year's issues with clicks etc solved?


Mine has been super quiet


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## jetrick07 (May 29, 2019)

I find my Grip2 harsh, I ran Fox's recommended settings for my weight. Do you guys experience the same harshness?


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

gpgalanis said:


> Does anyone have a 2020 model? Are last year's issues with clicks etc solved?


Yes, i have no noises or clicks


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## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

jetrick07 said:


> I find my Grip2 harsh, I ran Fox's recommended settings for my weight. Do you guys experience the same harshness?


I don't find mine harsh at all, but I also happen to like fox dampers and have a luftkappe installed. A couple things, starting from basic/mild to wild:

- not a dig, but if you are intermediate or less you just might not like it, fox tends to make their dampers more on the heavily damped side of the spectrum
- if you are lightweight, the above is further exacerbated
- too little air pressure will have the opposite affect you might think it would, making the fork harsh - double check this 
- dial out (open) your compression circuits; add LSC until the fork stands up in corners, berms, braking, etc; add HSC slowly until you don't feel bucked on big hits/drops, rocky sections, etc. 
- make sure you don't have too much rebound damping (closed) otherwise the fork will not recover in successive hits and will become "packed" up and harsh - think brake bumps 
- check yeti and ibis fox setup guides for alternative takes on baseline settings - probably more to your liking
- install a luftkappe (larger negative air spring = easier breakaway, google)
- install a push hcs3 kit (coil conversion, google)
- trade someone for a lyrik if you want plushy

Best of luck!!


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

rccp said:


> - too little air pressure will have the opposite affect you might think it would, making the fork harsh - double check this


First off, thanks for your input ...always good to hear other opinion/observations/etc. Can you elaborate on the "too little air pressure" comment?


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## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

GlazedHam said:


> First off, thanks for your input ...always good to hear other opinion/observations/etc. Can you elaborate on the "too little air pressure" comment?


Gladly. And this may not apply, especially since you stated you are following air pressure recommendations. But many times the first response if the fork feels harsh is to drop the air pressure to make it more compliant. This may pass, or even feel like an improvement, in a parking lot test or on very tame trails, but as soon as things get strep or rough, geometry will be sacrificed and the fork will be quickly overwhelmed, respectively - leading to the fork feeling even more harsh than it began.

Hope this helps.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

GlazedHam said:


> First off, thanks for your input ...always good to hear other opinion/observations/etc. Can you elaborate on the "too little air pressure" comment?


The air spring behaves differently as the fork compresses. This is a function of how a gas (air) behaves: as you decrease the volume (move into travel), the pressure increases proportionately. In the beginning part (*roughly* first 1/3), it will offer little resistance and will conform to terrain easily and quickly. The middle part is intended to be supportive (so that weight shifts don't blow through all the travel) but still give to conform to moderate compressions. The final part has a lot more resistance than the initial part of the travel, will feel very hard.

Here's a gross simplification:
If you run too low pressure, small bumps and weight shifts will more often push you into the middle, moderately firm, portion of the travel. When you start hitting moderate size things, you've already given up more of your travel, so you'll be hitting them with the ending, ramped up portion of travel sooner. Compare it this way: if you set up your fork according to Fox's suggestion of 20% sag for a "plush" setup, you've still got 80% of your travel (so ~128mm on a 160mm fork). If you run excessive fork sag (30%), you're left with only 112mm on a 160mm fork. A rock/root/hole is the same size regardless, and will push you deeper into your remaining travel in the oversagged situation, and consequently feel harsher, even though the fork feels softer when unweighted.

If you're looking for a mushy feeling fork, the Fox 36 is not for you. A Lyrik will feel better if that's your taste.

That said, the best bang for your buck mods to the 36 are ultra low friction Push or SKF seals (greatly reduce "stiction" making it feel more sensitive to small bumps), and the Luftkappe is also great but a bit more.


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## jetrick07 (May 29, 2019)

rccp said:


> I don't find mine harsh at all, but I also happen to like fox dampers and have a luftkappe installed. A couple things, starting from basic/mild to wild:
> 
> - not a dig, but if you are intermediate or less you just might not like it, fox tends to make their dampers more on the heavily damped side of the spectrum
> - if you are lightweight, the above is further exacerbated
> ...


Thanks for the reply. Actually I'm on the lighter side of the spectrum. Around 130lbs fully kitted. I have used Fox ever since and I know they are a stiff and harsh compare to a Rockshox product. My small bump compliance is excellent. The successive heavy hits that's were I'm having problem. I have tried Yeti's settings because I ride a SB150 currently, might check Ibis' recommendation.

I have thought of installing luftkappe but I decided to run a vanilla Grip2. I haven't given up on my Grip2. lol


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## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

jetrick07 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Actually I'm on the lighter side of the spectrum. Around 130lbs fully kitted. I have used Fox ever since and I know they are a stiff and harsh compare to a Rockshox product. My small bump compliance is excellent. The successive heavy hits that's were I'm having problem. I have tried Yeti's settings because I ride a SB150 currently, might check Ibis' recommendation.
> 
> I have thought of installing luftkappe but I decided to run a vanilla Grip2. I haven't given up on my Grip2. lol


Because you are so light I would recommend opening both HSC and HSR circuits and then slowly add damping back based on testing. I'm sure there's a "correct" order, but I would start with both open and add compression first until the bike handles a single big hit the way you want, then start adding rebound if the fork feels bouncy and uncontrolled on the return and during multiple fast successive hits...if you even have to add rebound back...


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

rccp said:


> B...start with both open and add compression first until the bike handles a single big hit the way you want...


Yeah, THIS and also consider adding a token to increase ramp up in the end stroke verses dialing up the HSC to slow down all fast compressions.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

jetrick07 said:


> I find my Grip2 harsh, I ran Fox's recommended settings for my weight. Do you guys experience the same harshness?


Pull the volume spacer. Then adjust air from there. The fork is pretty dang progressive at the end for lighter riders. This way you dont have to drop as much air and it'll help the fork ride higher but be much less harsh. Then add some HSC to your liking and adjust from there. You'll be using more travel (early travel and deeper travel) without having to drop psi way low. Its worth a shot, especially if you are lighter.


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## adhdguy (May 24, 2019)

After a month I received my Fox 36 grip 2 back from service. (Anpost office=lost office) Issue is still there (knocking sound +33 clicks of HSC) Fork came back scratched (on the stickers but still!) and my top cap and brake hose guide got snatched! Contacted YT again.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

close hsc, back off 16 clicks and check again. Knocking should stop. If so, then it had to little of preload on HSC stack. IMO its not worth to fight for "those clicks". Especially useless. YT has nothing to do with FOX, except forwarding it to them.

PS just watched first movie. It was worth to send it for warranty  Knock on second movie is very quiet.


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## adhdguy (May 24, 2019)

Hi. Thanks but I tried that tip already. Didn't help. Knocking sound is the same on both videos it's just my camera (and skills) is no good. I thought Fox come up with some solution to those extra clicks? it's been a while. Main thing is that knocking sound. Drives me mad. I think I should send fork back again for service. (YT's Customer service suggested same and send me another pre-paid postal label)


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

Today I took apart my 2nd grip2 to replace the oil in the cartridge (the first one I had no issues). To my surprise the whole compression assembly had come apart, so apparently I had been running around with no real compression damping. Either my fork was missing one of the shims, or its destroyed, or I lost it.... kinda sucks, ordered replacement shims to rebuild the shim stack. Glad I have a 2nd bike, though I still have the forks original fit4 cartridge to put in for the mean time. I’m just amazed the loose parts didn’t seem to damage anything else like the rebound piston or score the cartridge interior. Anyone play with customizing the shim stack?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ChvleSS956c said:


> Anyone play with customizing the shim stack?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Yes and it's necessary IMO for lighter and less aggressive riders. They benefit from reduced compression and rebound damping in these forks.

Stock is good for those 80-90kg aggressive riders.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

How about 225-235lbs with a push spring kit. Haven't installed the grip2 damper yet. Would heavier oil benefit me?

I liked the grip fit damper fairly well except big hits and repetitive big/medium hits. Especially looking forward to more HSR.

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

I’m right at 100kg, maybe moar shimz?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> How about 225-235lbs with a push spring kit. Haven't installed the grip2 damper yet. Would heavier oil benefit me?
> 
> I liked the grip fit damper fairly well except big hits and repetitive big/medium hits. Especially looking forward to more HSR.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


Don't go for heavier oil, it brings downsides in temperature sensitivity (although the Fox R3 is pretty bad already for that) and gives more damping from ports which you don't want.

I would not expect you to need more damping than the adjusters use. But it depends on a lot of factors. Including bike geometry, rider position, aggression, terrain etc etc.

What rate spring did you fit?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Started with grey but run black. Prefer black for trail riding but grey was better for high-speed flow trail. Wish they made a spring in between.

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks for the input Dougal, appreciated

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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

Dougal, have you ever seen the compression piston/shim stack come apart on its own, real put a dent into my day with that fork. Is it worth putting red loctite on the piston bolt, also there are some slight scuff marks inside the aluminum tube, I don’t think it’s significant but should I be concerned? I guess in the end I can run it and the next tear down replace the tube and piston seal...


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Yes and it's necessary IMO for lighter and less aggressive riders. They benefit from reduced compression and rebound damping in these forks.
> 
> Stock is good for those 80-90kg aggressive riders.


I agree and, even at 77K (170lbs) I find that I don't have enough range in my HSC for riding all day rocks where I just want the trail to be smoothed out so that I can stay in the saddle. The Grip2 works great for more park-style riding but I can't reduce the HSC enough for non-park riding. I was quite certain there was something wrong with the damper, but Fox just rebuilt it ...should have had it re-shimmed while I was at it, but never would have guessed that this is the way the intended the fork to behave. I should have bought a Lyric as I love the HSC on my Pike.


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

So the fox drawing shows 4 13.6x6x0.10 shims, 1 8x6x0.30 shim, and at least 4 10x6x0.10 shims. My assembly doesn’t have a single 10x6 shim, they are all the 13.6x6 and 8x6 shims, is the fox drawing wrong or was mine not assembled to correctly


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## yeti0200 (Mar 28, 2019)

ChvleSS956c said:


> So the fox drawing shows 4 13.6x6x0.10 shims, 1 8x6x0.30 shim, and at least 4 10x6x0.10 shims. My assembly doesn't have a single 10x6 shim, they are all the 13.6x6 and 8x6 shims, is the fox drawing wrong or was mine not assembled to correctly
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I think their drawing is wrong, it definitely has at least 1 mistake in it. The 10x6x.10 shown in the drawing is actually 8x6x.10. The iso view sort of confirms this. You can see that the 10x6x.10 and 8x6x.30 are side by side but their OD is the same.

Mine had the same shims that you mention when I took it apart.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Has anyone done a dyno run with a comp adjuster sweep of this damper versus the RC2 (or anything else) to see what the range is? When people say they need "less HSC" it's rarely what they actually need. It's a feel they want to address, but that doesn't usually correlate correctly to the desired shim/port setting.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ChvleSS956c said:


> Dougal, have you ever seen the compression piston/shim stack come apart on its own, real put a dent into my day with that fork. Is it worth putting red loctite on the piston bolt, also there are some slight scuff marks inside the aluminum tube, I don't think it's significant but should I be concerned? I guess in the end I can run it and the next tear down replace the tube and piston seal...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I haven't seen a Grip2 come apart. But we have seen Grip1 do it. Just check the loctite doesn't spread and lock up something else that should be moving.



GH28 said:


> Has anyone done a dyno run with a comp adjuster sweep of this damper versus the RC2 (or anything else) to see what the range is? When people say they need "less HSC" it's rarely what they actually need. It's a feel they want to address, but that doesn't usually correlate correctly to the desired shim/port setting.


The difference between Grip2 and the other dampers Fox has run is the size of the LSC bypass. The Grip2 was the first to use a small port which reaches choke point much earlier and pushes more oil into the shims.

Which makes shim stack selection far more critical. Basically the riders are correct, these feel harsher even though the shim stacks are softer than *some* previous dampers.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The difference between Grip2 and the other dampers Fox has run is the size of the LSC bypass. The Grip2 was the first to use a small port which reaches choke point much earlier and pushes more oil into the shims.
> 
> Which makes shim stack selection far more critical. Basically the riders are correct, these feel harsher even though the shim stacks are softer than *some* previous dampers.


So does that mean that the LSC adjuster only is useful when mostly closed off? And more open LSC settings are restricting flow based on the port size instead?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> So does that mean that the LSC adjuster only is useful when mostly closed off? And more open LSC settings are restricting flow based on the port size instead?


It means the LSC dial will have only a small effect on HSC and will be most noticable on slow speed compressions. Which is how it is supposed to be.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

GH28 said:


> Has anyone done a dyno run with a comp adjuster sweep of this damper versus the RC2 (or anything else) to see what the range is? When people say they need "less HSC" it's rarely what they actually need. It's a feel they want to address, but that doesn't usually correlate correctly to the desired shim/port setting.


Yes I have, when the HSC is set in the softest setting it generates very little force, one of the softest shim stacks out there. And the LSC is nicely independent which is good too


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

GH28 said:


> Has anyone done a dyno run with a comp adjuster sweep of this damper versus the RC2 (or anything else) to see what the range is? When people say they need "less HSC" it's rarely what they actually need. It's a feel they want to address, but that doesn't usually correlate correctly to the desired shim/port setting.


I can't speak for the other light-weight riders out there but when I say, "less HSC", maybe i really mean a more usable range of adjustment. For sure the Grip2 works great for those all-out, sub-4-minute runs, but when I just want soften if up for all-day sitting in the saddle over rocky terrain, I pretty much need to just turn the HSC to wide open and use air and tokens to adjust ride quality. It's like the HSC does nothing until a certain point and then one more click makes it harsh as hell.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

GlazedHam said:


> I can't speak for the other light-weight riders out there but when I say, "less HSC", maybe i really mean a more usable range of adjustment. For sure the Grip2 works great for those all-out, sub-4-minute runs, but when I just want soften if up for all-day sitting in the saddle over rocky terrain, I pretty much need to just turn the HSC to wide open and use air and tokens to adjust ride quality. It's like the HSC does nothing until a certain point and then one more click makes it harsh as hell.


You kind of have a point, the adjusters tend to progressively add a lot of damping after around 40% of the clicks from full soft, there is still useable settings in there though.

Just make sure you aren't further than 16 clicks from full closed on the HSC adjuster, as it doesn't do anything other than let the shims float completely off the piston and you lose all compression damping!


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## jetrick07 (May 29, 2019)

Any idea how the Grip2 performs compare to Lyrik Ultimate?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

jetrick07 said:


> Any idea how the Grip2 performs compare to Lyrik Ultimate?


Both are great forks.
The Grip2 is the best stock damper ever made IMO. It has the best adjustment range and lowest friction. Mine moves with virtually no break away force.

The fox air spring is very good, but can benefit from a larger negative chamber mod like the vorsprung luftkappe. The tolerances on the vorsprung luftkappe seal head are perfect and made for the best air spring I have ever ridden.

Damper Fox>RS
Air spring RS>Fox
Stiffness is hard for me to tell RS>=Fox

They have a different feel out of the box and that should also be taken into account.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

I mostly agree, I don’t know about best damoer ever, but it is pretty good!


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## sooner518 (Aug 1, 2007)

GlazedHam said:


> I can't speak for the other light-weight riders out there but when I say, "less HSC", maybe i really mean a more usable range of adjustment. For sure the Grip2 works great for those all-out, sub-4-minute runs, but when I just want soften if up for all-day sitting in the saddle over rocky terrain, I pretty much need to just turn the HSC to wide open and use air and tokens to adjust ride quality. It's like the HSC does nothing until a certain point and then one more click makes it harsh as hell.


Im about 10 rides into my 170 mm Fox 36 grip2 and I can kind of feel this too. I weigh about 180 and have the HSC wide open as well and feel like its a bit overdamped. I do love the fork and it is extremely confidence inspiring when just launching it into whatever the hell you want. but i do wish i could get it feeling a little more "open".

I did have a creaky CSU that Fox warrantied a month back. I wonder if they rebuilt it with too much grease somewhere.....maybe that could help?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

what feeling are you getting from the bike that makes it feel overdamped? Also by wide open, how many clicks are you from closed?


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## brash (Dec 4, 2018)

Anyone wanna play "wtf is that noise"

I took apart headset, regreased and all tightened up OK.

Sounds like the CSU? But I've had a faulty CSU before and didn't sound like this. It's 10 times worse on the trail, today it sent me absolutely bonkers.

2019, 36 E-bike, Grip2 for reference


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## brash (Dec 4, 2018)

Crisis averted. Loose battery mount! Oh well, at least the headset is nicely greased haha.


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> what feeling are you getting from the bike that makes it feel overdamped? Also by wide open, how many clicks are you from closed?


Take out all the tokens, set the air spring to the prescribed PSI for my 170LBS (77 KG), turn the LSC and HSC all the way open, set the LSR and HSR to something reasonable as a starting point like 7-10 from fully closed. Ride bike and notice that while I can get a ton of compression/travel pumping the bike hard through whoops and berns, I get very little travel over big hits. It felt like the HSC was stuck shut.

Anyway, I sent the fork back to Fox and they indicated the damper needed bleeding which seems strange because all i did was change the Air Spring from 16omm to 170mm and leave the fork sitting for a month or two.

Fork is riding much better now but there is no way I will ever get more than 150mm of travel out of it at that prescribed pressure and no tokens ...and to do that I need to really smack a rock ledge at high speed with the HSC set pretty much all the way open. Even dropping the pressure does not do much for big hits, just makes it too soft to pump unless I crank the LSC.

I should have had the damper custom set while I had it at Fox, but they were certain I wouldn't need it now that the fork damper is rebuilt.

I'm not a professional suspension tuner, but i do have pages and pages of notes for various forks that I have used over the years and I typically make minor tweaks for every course/trail. This is the first fork that I have ever owned that I cannot bottom out.

Compare this to my 2020 Pike Ultimate on my XC/Trail bike ...I can locate the exact HSC position that just prevents bottom out on my favorite testing ground huck to flat.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

brash said:


> Anyone wanna play "wtf is that noise"
> 
> I took apart headset, regreased and all tightened up OK.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your brake pads are rattling. take them out and spread the springs slightly.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I mostly agree, I don't know about best damoer ever, but it is pretty good!


Which stock fork damper is better? Seems like the complete package of easy service, lots of adjustment range and almost no friction.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alexbn921 said:


> Which stock fork damper is better? Seems like the complete package of easy service, lots of adjustment range and almost no friction.


You can guess what I'm going to say!


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> Which stock fork damper is better? Seems like the complete package of easy service, lots of adjustment range and almost no friction.


It's splitting hairs at this point, but I am still partial to the RC2 as it has more tuning potential and better defined adjuster clicks. Grip2 is made to have a bigger adjustment range but it's useful lsc Range is too small


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

a few months ago i upgraded my fit4 damper to the grip2 and everything's been great. but in the last 3-4 rides, i notice there's some squishy noise when im riding. sounds like it's happened on the rebound or extension phase. im only using around 1/3-2/3 of the travel

it was a brand new grip2 damper from fox and right now it has about 60-70miles. 

i have the push acs3 coil kit installed as well, so i dont think the noise is coming from the spring side. because im not getting deep enough in the travel to initiate the ABS.

anyone else run into this?


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

This happened to me when my compression piston came apart


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

ChvleSS956c said:


> This happened to me when my compression piston came apart
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


how did you fix it?


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

Pulled the cartridge apart, got it out, reassembled using the fox drawings as a reference, I put a little lock tight on it but you have to be really careful


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## Mickon64 (Jan 27, 2012)

Just picked up a new bike which has the 2019 grip 2 160mm. On inputting the fork codes (DT83) the fox website says it is 170mm travel and when I measured the stanchions they were 170

I have been told by the shop that they can put a new airspring (160mm) into it and it will fix it.

Has anyone reduced the travel in their 170mm fork to 160, just seeing if there may be issues in doing this.


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## BigJZ74 (Jul 18, 2010)

Mickon64 said:


> Just picked up a new bike which has the 2019 grip 2 160mm. On inputting the fork codes (DT83) the fox website says it is 170mm travel and when I measured the stanchions they were 170
> 
> I have been told by the shop that they can put a new air spring (160mm) into it and it will fix it.
> 
> Has anyone reduced the travel in their 170mm fork to 160, just seeing if there may be issues in doing this.


No issues, they are designed to be travel adjustable by an air shaft change. I had my 160mm changed to 170mm.


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## Mister Lost Bike Shop (May 6, 2017)

Mickon64 said:


> Just picked up a new bike which has the 2019 grip 2 160mm. On inputting the fork codes (DT83) the fox website says it is 170mm travel and when I measured the stanchions they were 170
> 
> I have been told by the shop that they can put a new airspring (160mm) into it and it will fix it.
> 
> Has anyone reduced the travel in their 170mm fork to 160, just seeing if there may be issues in doing this.


The Fox 36 has about 10-14mm of additional exposed stanchion compared to what the internal travel is set to. So if you're measuring around 170mm from the top of the dust wiper to the bottom of the crown, then your fork is set at 160mm.


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## Mickon64 (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks, I got confirmation that the 160 airspring was installed. Fox also confirmed as per previous response there should be about 10mm of additional stanchion.

They advised to check let all the air out and see how far down it goes, sure enough there was 10mm left so it's all good.


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## adhdguy (May 24, 2019)

I received my Fox 36 grip 2 back from warranty (again) This time around they (Fox-germany) finally replaced Grip2 cartridge due to clicking, knocking sound. Big 'thank you' for Ralf Heerz from YT for professional support. And as always TERRIBLE service from Anpost.ie (they just never deliver) Moral to the story is: don't crank your HSC and LSC 'all the way closed' on your grip2 damper I guess..


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

adhdguy said:


> Moral to the story is: don't crank your HSC and LSC 'all the way closed' on your grip2 damper I guess..


Did you break something in the damper by doing this?


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## adhdguy (May 24, 2019)

All I did was locking my fork pretty often. Seems that was enough to unscrew grip2 internals?!


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

Never had issue with “cranking them closed” but I never ran them that way either. I do know on one of mine the compression assembly unscrewed itself, so I effectively had no compression damping, and it made all sorts of racket until I took it apart and fixed it


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ChvleSS956c said:


> Never had issue with "cranking them closed" but I never ran them that way either. I do know on one of mine the compression assembly unscrewed itself, so I effectively had no compression damping, and it made all sorts of racket until I took it apart and fixed it
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


You were lucky. I've had two Grip dampers in recently which had the cartridge tube unscrew, slide down off the compression damper then smash the compression piston into pieces with the cartridge tube lip on the next bump.

Customer had to buy a whole new cartridge in each case.

If they start knocking or damping stops working. Ride very very carefully home and check it out.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

Dougal said:


> You were lucky. I've had two Grip dampers in recently which had the cartridge tube unscrew, slide down off the compression damper then smash the compression piston into pieces with the cartridge tube lip on the next bump.
> 
> Customer had to buy a whole new cartridge in each case.
> 
> If they start knocking or damping stops working. Ride very very carefully home and check it out.


:yikes: Youre talking about the damper cartridge pressure tube, right?


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## Thrawn (Jan 15, 2009)

Yes, more info please... My knock is a little more muted, but happens just like in your video.


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## B-HAD (Aug 11, 2003)

2019 Fox 36 Grip2 Factory 170mm

Fork was not feeling right. Took damper cartridge apart and the Fastener screw that holds the Piston Damper and Valving shims had come completely unscrewed so everything was floating around in Cartridge.

How I put it back together

Fastener/Bolt 
spring
check plate
piston damper "Had a dimple on it dimple facing up to the top of fork"
compression shims

Is this correct? First post be Nice.


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

Yes it should be you can also verify drawings from fox website, make sure your check gave “floats” the retaining bolt if not aligned properly through it can pinch it and prevent it from opening. I used a little bit of lock tite when this happens to be, again just make sure that you don’t get any where it’s not supposed to go (check check float, adjusters work, specifically low speed


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## B-HAD (Aug 11, 2003)

Did you notice the piston damper is different on both sides? One side has a taller lip for either the check plate or compression shims. I want to say the side with the dimple has the taller lip. Thats the side I put the compression shims on. Feels good in the drive way. test track is under snow.

Check valve floats and compression shims too. I did make sure nothing was pinched.
Thanks for response


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

My LBS changed my 160mm 36/Grip1 to Grip2 (2020 version). When i got the bike back i felt that my brake levers/shifters/bar moved, so i checked my marks and they didn't moved them, but somehow they moved up 2º... then i checked the fork travel, and found out that it become 165mm plus 5mm dead travel, instead of 160mm plus 10mm dead travel (same psi) - is that normal? since they didn't change the airshaft?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

There might be some air trapped in the lower legs. It would be worth checking and letting it out.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

alexbn921 said:


> There might be some air trapped in the lower legs. It would be worth checking and letting it out.


How can i do so?

And if i don't take the air out, assuming there is air trapped in the lower legs, can it make damage in the long run?


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## jetrick07 (May 29, 2019)

Muddy-Runs said:


> How can i do so?
> 
> And if i don't take the air out, assuming there is air trapped in the lower legs, can it make damage in the long run?


Use a zip tie.


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## Barmelito (May 2, 2020)

Hello, i recently bought new Fox 36 Grip 2 2019 fork (150mm) and it seems very firm, i weight about 200lbs, and only have 65-70psi and about 20% sag, and even in hardest terrain i can only get 75-80% of travel. I tried add tokens, also borrowed shockwiz and tuned the LCS and HSC (there are 30 click of HSC on my fork) and its still very firm at first 30% of travel and then in last 30% of travel is impossible to achieve. There is also a clicking noise when i let the air out and compress is to the bottom, there is some knocking or clicking. 

I also have older Fox 34 Fit4 2016 on other bike and there is no problem with it, have 75-80psi, 25-30% sag and it feels good. But this GRIP 2 is so firm and uncomfortable, dont know what to do, is it suppoused to be like that or should i send it for warranty? I even tried to let the air out from lowers with ziptie, but still too firm.

Thanks for any suggestion.


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## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

I wanted to ask the same thing. Do you guys follow the recommended settings (psi & rebound)? Personally I go way lower in psi & faster in rebound to make the 36 feel lively and plush.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

gpgalanis said:


> I wanted to ask the same thing. Do you guys follow the recommended settings (psi & rebound)? Personally I go way lower in psi & faster in rebound to make the 36 feel lively and plush.


Yeah, I'm pretty close to the recommended settings. I'm 210 lbs and run 93 psi, 1 token, and my rebound is about 4 clicks out. I don't have a problem using full travel. 0 tokens was giving hard bottom outs.


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## sleeplessbandito (Apr 4, 2019)

@Barmelito

I was having a similar issue, I'm right at 200 lbs. I had lowered PSI at the end of last season to 70 trying to get rid of the harshness and use more of the travel. It didn't achieve what I was after. 
After a few rides on it this year, I increased my PSI to 80 and set the HSC at 14 clicks out and the LSC to 7 out (from closed), not sure my rebound settings off the top of my head.
I was really pleased with the changes on the first ride out and may end up trying 85 and backing off the compression some more, you may want to start there.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

jetrick07 said:


> Use a zip tie.


Tnx, that trick worked.


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## cb750stu (Oct 1, 2019)

Hi just did a service on my 36s today and i got to thinkin what does the 40ml of 5wt fluid actually do, to me it seems like its just sloshing around in the bottom of the lowers??

Regards 

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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

cb750stu said:


> Hi just did a service on my 36s today and i got to thinkin what does the 40ml of 5wt fluid actually do, to me it seems like its just sloshing around in the bottom of the lowers??
> 
> Regards
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Its recirculating up into the damper. The damper has an U-cup seal at the bottom sealhead so it will take oil up easily but not let any out. The top IFP assembly has a hole that lets oil out when there is too much.


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## cb750stu (Oct 1, 2019)

Jukis said:


> Its recirculating up into the damper. The damper has an U-cup seal at the bottom sealhead so it will take oil up easily but not let any out. The top IFP assembly has a hole that lets oil out when there is too much.


Ah ok i get ya, so the squirting sound i get when i compress the forks is oil escaping through the hole at the top, ive only just noticed this sound cant remember it doing that before tbh??

Regards

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

what o-ring use in lower damper sealhead to prevent damper oil ingestion with bath oil?*

*in case using supergliss in damper leg


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

Its a silly question. Dont use supergliss. Let the damper function as intended, adding o-ring will make it a lot stickier so the use of supergliss will not add any benefit.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

cb750stu said:


> Ah ok i get ya, so the squirting sound i get when i compress the forks is oil escaping through the hole at the top, ive only just noticed this sound cant remember it doing that before tbh??
> 
> Regards
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


the squirting sound is simply oil flowing through the valves. The overflow port in the IFP isn't necessarily purging out oil every time it compresses.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

nikon255 said:


> what o-ring use in lower damper sealhead to prevent damper oil ingestion with bath oil?*
> 
> *in case using supergliss in damper leg


You can't. It's a one way seal. Adding an o-ring doesn't turn it into a 2 way seal.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

the_joe said:


> You can't. It's a one way seal. Adding an o-ring doesn't turn it into a 2 way seal.


Replacing it with an o-ring does turn it into a two way seal. You've then got the same oil sealing in both directions.

It'll still ingest some oil. Because there is no such thing as a perfect seal. But ingestion rates will be similar to other cartridge dampers (FIT, Charger etc).


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## hartmtb (Sep 14, 2019)

Having trouble getting my 36 grip 2 fork 1 spacer to work well in rough terrain. Bike is a ripmo and used primarily for rough New England singletrack. High frequency hits at most speeds are totally rough. Getting bounced around everywhere. I’m getting sore hands and arm pump when I never used to. I’m 195lbs riding weight. Looking for anyone’s advice fir a base setup that works for them near my weight.


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## cb750stu (Oct 1, 2019)

hartmtb said:


> Having trouble getting my 36 grip 2 fork 1 spacer to work well in rough terrain. Bike is a ripmo and used primarily for rough New England singletrack. High frequency hits at most speeds are totally rough. Getting bounced around everywhere. I'm getting sore hands and arm pump when I never used to. I'm 195lbs riding weight. Looking for anyone's advice fir a base setup that works for them near my weight.


Hi

Ive been fettling with my 36s for a while now, i was the same getting a lot of chatter, i am the same weight as you and i settled at 82 psi, 1 x token,

HSC 7 clicks from open
LSC 4 clicks from open
HSR 4 clicks from open
LSR 5 clicks from open

Im using almost full travel on bit hits but never felt it bottom out, it might be a bit soft but it takes away a bit of the harsh feeling, ive got a Luftkappe coming soon so im going to try that, the 36 is a great fork it just takes time to get a setting you are happy with,

Not sure if removing all the excess grease from the negative chamber has made a difference tbh, i just serviced my forks yesterday with green SKF seals they seem smoother in the first part of the travel,

Im going to keep fettling with them as i think it will be worth it in the end and im not going to splash out on something else,

There are many upgrades that people rave about and folk disagree with, i think at the end of the day its down to personal preference and how deep your pockets are lol

Im no suspension engineer or guru but i think im finally getting there with a set up that works for me 

Regards

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

size the bushings and service whole fork. Harshness should be gone.

Im 170lbs, 68-70 psi with 1 token. Fork is a magic carpet.


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

Adding to this thread

185 lbs riding in the PNW

77 psi
1 token
11-12 HSC
6-8 LSC
5 LSR
6 HSR

Fork feels amazing, in the chunder and poppy enough for the small gaps and hips


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

ehfour said:


> Adding to this thread
> 
> 185 lbs riding in the PNW
> 
> ...


How much of the travel are you using with that setup? Is it an 160mm fork/spring?


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

170 lbs in the dry, rocky southwest US

170mm 29er Factory 36 Grip2
85 PSI
0 tokens
HSC nearly all the way open, usually just 1,2,3 from all the way open
LSC 3/4s open ...something like 14 clicks but varies depending on ride
HSR 3 clicks from all the way open
LSR about 1/2 open, so like 12 clicks from closed

Obviously, I like a stiff fork with little damping. Not getting full travel most rides but that does not bother me.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

GlazedHam said:


> 170 lbs in the dry, rocky southwest US
> 
> 170mm 29er Factory 36 Grip2
> 85 PSI
> ...


Crazy 85psi for 170 lbs  Im 175 lbs rtr, yesterday tried 75psi and felt stiff on bumps. Went back to 68-70 psi. I hope so high difference is due to pump differencies


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

svinyard said:


> How much of the travel are you using with that setup? Is it an 160mm fork/spring?


Yup 160mm

Bottomed out once so far, usually just below bottom out bumper line

My setup is based off it the following

1) This thread
2) Yeti online setup
3) Bracketing on trails that I ride often

Very happy with the fork as compared to previous forks, FOX 36 RC2, Lyrik RC2


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

ehfour said:


> Adding to this thread
> 
> 185 lbs riding in the PNW
> 
> ...


This is my exact settings on my megatower with the fork @160mm. I'm 175lbs and located in socal. I'd attribute me running the same psi at a bit less weight to the difference in terrain. Your trails have a smidge more chunder, where as our trails are a bit steeper here in laguna.

I agree on the way the fork feels. This is by far, the best air suspended fork I've ever ridden.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

My 36 is set at 150mm. What do you think the impact is on the fork setup? It feels pretty stiff when I get get to 75+ PSI with my 175lbs. I'm not charging hard tho. I have the HSC open, the HSR/LSR and LSC all around the middle (6 click-ish iirc).


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

Ride 2 with the fork and with those settings, Im going to up in air pressure

3-4 ft drops I bottomed out, chunder was a bit less controlled than last time

Ill either go

85 psi
1 token

or

77 psi 
2 tokens


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

ehfour said:


> Ride 2 with the fork and with those settings, Im going to up in air pressure
> 
> 3-4 ft drops I bottomed out, chunder was a bit less controlled than last time
> 
> ...


bottoming on 4ft drop sounds weird. You sit on the bar or your pump is off


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

svinyard said:


> My 36 is set at 150mm. What do you think the impact is on the fork setup? It feels pretty stiff when I get get to 75+ PSI with my 175lbs. I'm not charging hard tho. I have the HSC open, the HSR/LSR and LSC all around the middle (6 click-ish iirc).


it has reduced (150mm) stroke, so imo you should use 2-3 tokens. All guides says around 70 psi. Guides are from yeti, ibis and norco.


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

nikon255 said:


> bottoming on 4ft drop sounds weird. You sit on the bar or your pump is off


Ya- Ill double check it and I can never estimate height on trails 100%


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

nikon255 said:


> it has reduced (150mm) stroke, so imo you should use 2-3 tokens. All guides says around 70 psi. Guides are from yeti, ibis and norco.


I feel like with just the one token I'm not hitting it hard enough to even hit the Kashima logo though. I can't imagine having 2-3 tokens in there. Its possible I'm just not that hard of a rider but I've certainly nose-cased a few bad sends etc. It just seem really hard to get into that last 25mm of travel. 70 PSI does feel pretty good though and decently supportive.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

if suggested pressure by yeti, norco and ibis doesnt feel stable on chunky then its time to add some compression for stability. For me this pressures are spot on. Norco has advance level slider which bump up pressures up to EWS level rider hahaha


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

For what it's worth on a few things being discussed right now. A lot of tune calculators and setup apps such as the yeti tune app and for example the suggested settings on teh push acs3 page, suggest very open settings for both lsc and hsc. I agree with running the hsc very open as these tune pages suggest, but I cannot run the LSC as open as these things are stating. I get a lot of wallowing and issues trying to run so light of an LSC setting and I'm missing the platform feeling and the control on steep descents. I do like how plush the fork feels in the parking lot when running that open, but on the trail it leads to a lack of confidence in holding a line with the front end. 

I could get away with lowering the LSC by upping the pressure in my fork by 5-7psi, but then I start to struggle with the balance of mid stroke support, sag and end of stroke ramp up with volume spacers. 

On that note, I do find the 36 to be quite progressive even in 160mm form. Most forks I find myself jumping right into 2-3 volume reducers and on the 36 at my weight and riding style, 1-1.5 spacers does the trick for me. Don't be afraid to cut a fox volume spacer in half in order to get half steps to get the exact amount of ramp up you want/need.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

minimusprime said:


> For what it's worth on a few things being discussed right now. A lot of tune calculators and setup apps such as the yeti tune app and for example the suggested settings on teh push acs3 page, suggest very open settings for both lsc and hsc. I agree with running the hsc very open as these tune pages suggest, but I cannot run the LSC as open as these things are stating. I get a lot of wallowing and issues trying to run so light of an LSC setting and I'm missing the platform feeling and the control on steep descents. I do like how plush the fork feels in the parking lot when running that open, but on the trail it leads to a lack of confidence in holding a line with the front end.
> 
> I could get away with lowering the LSC by upping the pressure in my fork by 5-7psi, but then I start to struggle with the balance of mid stroke support, sag and end of stroke ramp up with volume spacers.
> 
> On that note, I do find the 36 to be quite progressive even in 160mm form. Most forks I find myself jumping right into 2-3 volume reducers and on the 36 at my weight and riding style, 1-1.5 spacers does the trick for me. Don't be afraid to cut a fox volume spacer in half in order to get half steps to get the exact amount of ramp up you want/need.


I want to cut a spacer in half today or drill some big holes in one. How did you go about doing it? Any tips?


----------



## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

svinyard said:


> I want to cut a spacer in half today or drill some big holes in one. How did you go about doing it? Any tips?


I just used a dremel with a circular cutoff wheel. However a hacksaw would work as well. I cut mine, and then used a file to clean up the edges and burrs to make sure there wasn't any particles or rough edges that could fall into the air spring and damage it.


----------



## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

nikon255 said:


> bottoming on 4ft drop sounds weird. You sit on the bar or your pump is off


Pump was off- rechecked and it was at 71 psi, will pump it back up and retest


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

minimusprime said:


> For what it's worth on a few things being discussed right now. A lot of tune calculators and setup apps such as the yeti tune app and for example the suggested settings on teh push acs3 page, suggest very open settings for both lsc and hsc. I agree with running the hsc very open as these tune pages suggest, but I cannot run the LSC as open as these things are stating. I get a lot of wallowing and issues trying to run so light of an LSC setting and I'm missing the platform feeling and the control on steep descents. I do like how plush the fork feels in the parking lot when running that open, but on the trail it leads to a lack of confidence in holding a line with the front end.
> 
> I could get away with lowering the LSC by upping the pressure in my fork by 5-7psi, but then I start to struggle with the balance of mid stroke support, sag and end of stroke ramp up with volume spacers.
> 
> On that note, I do find the 36 to be quite progressive even in 160mm form. Most forks I find myself jumping right into 2-3 volume reducers and on the 36 at my weight and riding style, 1-1.5 spacers does the trick for me. Don't be afraid to cut a fox volume spacer in half in order to get half steps to get the exact amount of ramp up you want/need.


Personal question: what is your riding weight? I think you posted it earlier in the thread, but dont want to search


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

ehfour said:


> Personal question: what is your riding weight? I think you posted it earlier in the thread, but dont want to search


I'm 175lbs in normal clothing. Which likely means I'm around 180ish ready to ride.


----------



## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> Crazy 85psi for 170 lbs  Im 175 lbs rtr, yesterday tried 75psi and felt stiff on bumps. Went back to 68-70 psi. I hope so high difference is due to pump differencies


Yeah, I should clarify ...that's kind of my 3 minute, all-out, standing only setting. For all day riding, I might go down to 75PSI ...weighing 170 lbs.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

GlazedHam said:


> Yeah, I should clarify ...that's kind of my 3 minute, all-out, standing only setting. For all day riding, I might go down to 75PSI ...weighing 170 lbs.


Thats close


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> Thats close


...and likely due to shock-pump calibration discrepancies as you pointed out. I'm using a Fox digital but I don't think that makes it any more accurate ...just more precise ...if that make sense. I had a prior Fox Digital that broke while setting the bike up for the maiden voyage due to the positioning of the X2 on the 20202 Enduro. I believe it was showing significantly lower pressures.


----------



## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

Hi all, newish member here. Had my YT Jeffsy with the 150mm 2019 fox 36 factory grip 2 since October, but due to a horrendous winter and UK lockdown, yesterday was the first dry trails the bike has seen.

My local trails are VERY rooty - natural trails with minimal berms, just lots of 2 inch to 8/10 inch roots, and braking bumps.

I'm a wheels on the ground rider, I might hit a 2-3ft drop every few rides but it's rare, no jumping either. So traction, and dealing with both fast, repeated bigger hits, and small bumps in my priority.

On my ride yesterday I couldn't get over how harsh the forks (and dpx2, to a lesser extent) felt. I was using around 75% travel so about right considering my wheels barely left the ground.

I've never been overly impressed with the small bump sensitivity either.

I'm 175lbs so just under 80lbs riding weight.

Set up was:

75psi
Don't know how many tokens
LSR 7 from closed
HSR 6 from closed
HSC 16 from closed (fully open) 
LSC 10 from closed

So this morning I tried using the pivot setup guide, which gives the following settings:

55-59psi
LSR 9/10 from open
HSR 3/4 from open
HSC 4 from open (12 from closed) 
LSC 5 from open (7 from closed)

And, well... Just riding up my street, up/down some 6 inch kerbs and compressing using my weight, I'm at this much travel with just my own bodyweight compressing the forks, and not far off that just riding up a kerb - the fork sits low and any hard braking it dives straight into the 60-80% travel range.









I'm thinking I need to give it a service, I'm tempted by a luftkappe and fitting a 160mm shaft at the same time. Any suggestions set up wise?

I'm going to try and take a gopro next ride and use a nicely rough section to film me and the bike so I can actually see what the forks are doing in slow motion (120fps so 1/4 speed).


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## cb750stu (Oct 1, 2019)

TallPaul_S said:


> Hi all, newish member here. Had my YT Jeffsy with the 150mm 2019 fox 36 factory grip 2 since October, but due to a horrendous winter and UK lockdown, yesterday was the first dry trails the bike has seen.
> 
> My local trails are VERY rooty - natural trails with minimal berms, just lots of 2 inch to 8/10 inch roots, and braking bumps.
> 
> ...


Are you using the 80lbs (or is it meant to be 180lbs) as a quide for the air pressure??

55-59psi seems very low for your weight no wonder you are using all that travel just riding about, you will definitely be bottoming out on the trails,

I run 82 psi (195lbs rtr) with one token and use most of the travel on similar trail conditions (Scotland),

Ive serviced mine (160mm) a few times replaced the stock seals with green SKF seals and it didn't really make a difference tbh,

Ive found that the suggested fox settings were way off from where i am now with my settings i have now,

Ive got a Luftkappe to fit when I get time to fit it, im also considering going with the push coil conversion or maybe trying Runt conversion too, im slowly getting to the setting i like but still not hopefully happy with it so I'll see how it goes,

Regards

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

Yeah the pivot guide settings was something to try but as you say 55-59psi is not going to work for me! Thought I'd try them as they're very different from fox recommendations and what I'd been running before. 

So the settings I need feedback on are these

75psi
Don't know how many tokens
LSR 7 from closed
HSR 6 from closed
HSC 16 from closed (fully open)
LSC 10 from closed


As I say, fork felt very harsh over the fast rough sections - on single big roots it was fine, and on small bumps again not so great.


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## cb750stu (Oct 1, 2019)

TallPaul_S said:


> Yeah the pivot guide settings was something to try but as you say 55-59psi is not going to work for me! Thought I'd try them as they're very different from fox recommendations and what I'd been running before.
> 
> So the settings I need feedback on are these
> 
> ...


I run very similar settings, can't remember exactly but close to yours,

I did the same trail (variety of roots, rocks, drop offs etc over and over again and just played around with the settings air pressure etc, i also took my shock pump and socket set to take out tokens, tbh i think this is the best way to do it,

Regards

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

TallPaul_S said:


> Yeah the pivot guide settings was something to try but as you say 55-59psi is not going to work for me! Thought I'd try them as they're very different from fox recommendations and what I'd been running before.
> 
> So the settings I need feedback on are these
> 
> ...


Same for me, same weight. I'm not an expert but I've messed around a bit. Go 70psi with same clicks and it'll be better for what you are looking for I'm guessing. You can then mess with volume spacers if need be. You can remove one or cut one in half like others have done. For me and my average skillset/riding, that last 25mm of travel is SUPER progressive and hard to get into, so a half spacer is much more appropriate. Worth a shot


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

TallPaul_S said:


> Yeah the pivot guide settings was something to try but as you say 55-59psi is not going to work for me! Thought I'd try them as they're very different from fox recommendations and what I'd been running before.


Yeti's set up guide is another decent one to try. I used the Lost Co recommendations with good results.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

yeti, norco, ibis guides suggests similar pressures.


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## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

I think it could be too much LSR causing the fork to pack down on repeated medium sized bumps, as I said it's fine on single hits - that would explain the harshness on the rough sections. Just playing with the LSR and opening it up then giving it a bounce/ride around the block, the fork feels much looser and plusher.

And for small bump, it's probably packed with grease in the negative chamber, like this guy's bike (same fork, same bike actually)





I need to do a lower service and check the air spring/foam rings/seals - I've probably done 30-odd hours on the fork, mostly through the wettest winter here for years.

Will try dropping to 70psi too as the Yeti guide recommends.

Actually, the Yeti guide recommends less LSR and HSR than what I was running so I'm definitely thinking that's (partly) the cause.

My settings:
_75psi_
_LSR 7 from closed_
_HSR 6 from closed_
_HSC 16 from closed (fully open)_
_LSC 10 from closed

Yeti Settings:
70psi
LSR 11 from closed
HSR 8 from closed
HCR 16 from closed
LSC 9 from closed_


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Those settings look good. I'm going to try those tomorrow as well. 

Side question: What kind of adjustments do you look at when trying to reduce the high speed chatter? Are their pros and cons to that?


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## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

Had a good session today doing multiple runs on my local trails, which are natural trails - root infested, some smooth sections and many, many, sections with multiple roots and rocks and small to medium sized chunder. Some small drops/jumps, but nothing of note. Fireroad climb up which leads to about 10+ trails, all around a minute long.

Started with the Yeti settings of:

70psi
2 tokens
LSR 11 from closed
HSR 8 from closed (fully open)
HSC 16 from closed (fully open)
LSC 9 from closed

Did a few runs, changing a setting by a couple of clicks at a time then doing another run.

Ended up with:

70psi
2 tokens
LSR 14 from closed
HSR 5 from closed
HSC 16 from closed
LSC 8 from closed

The first runs with the LSR set to Yeti's recommended 11 and and HSR set to 8 were immediately better, but honestly, even though it may seem like too little LSR damping, I love having the LSR set to a once click away from fully open. I set the HSR a click firmer to stop me getting bounced from any bigger hits. I was using 80% of my travel on the bigger hits.

I set a PB on every trail I rode today, conditions were dry with a little bit of rain the night before, so pretty much perfect.

Video of one of the runs towards the end.


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## dlxah (Nov 5, 2014)

JohnnyC7 said:


> With my suspension dyno.
> 
> Each line is -3 clicks change, and it shows that it works as advertised, you have about 16 useable clicks, all starting from closed.
> 
> ...


Why does it look like the HSC adjuster changes the slope of the damping curve at higher shaft speeds? I thought the HSC adjuster on the original GRIP2 just added preload to the base valve shims. I would have expected it to just raise or lower the knee of that curve without having much effect on the slope after the knee, but it looks like it's actually doing the opposite.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

TallPaul_S said:


> Had a good session today doing multiple runs on my local trails, which are natural trails - root infested, some smooth sections and many, many, sections with multiple roots and rocks and small to medium sized chunder. Some small drops/jumps, but nothing of note. Fireroad climb up which leads to about 10+ trails, all around a minute long.
> 
> Started with the Yeti settings of:
> 
> ...


I've heard that the HSR is fairly damp and that without it being quite open...then the fork can start to pack in. It almost looks like your fork is nearly doing that in the video. Like its riding pretty deep into the travel for a fair amount of time. I'm a layman at this tho. Seeing it on a video, that's pretty decent quality, is certainly interesting!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

dlxah said:


> Why does it look like the HSC adjuster changes the slope of the damping curve at higher shaft speeds? I thought the HSC adjuster on the original GRIP2 just added preload to the base valve shims. I would have expected it to just raise or lower the knee of that curve without having much effect on the slope after the knee, but it looks like it's actually doing the opposite.


Agreed, its interesting that the HSC is effecting the progressiveness a bit (or seems to be if the graph is spot on). I've always been told to adjust PSI/Spacers to mess with the curve and then change the rebound/compression to stabilize things. That works but its also kind of done in large swaths and not very granular. It's kind of cool to have a bit more granular control over the curve via an HSC click or two (this is truly how it works).


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## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

svinyard said:


> I've heard that the HSR is fairly damp and that without it being quite open...then the fork can start to pack in. It almost looks like your fork is nearly doing that in the video. Like its riding pretty deep into the travel for a fair amount of time. I'm a layman at this tho. Seeing it on a video, that's pretty decent quality, is certainly interesting!


The bits where it's sitting deeper into the travel is (I think) some berms so I may need a little more LSC? My main goal is small-medium size bump sensitivity, specifically on fast sections, but I didn't want to have HSR too far open as I reckon it'd get a bit bouncy on any bigger drops to flat!

I'm looking at putting in a 160mm air shaft with a luftkappe at some point, but the fork is feeling 100x better than it was.

The video is good to have, I have them in 120fps too so I can slow mo sections to see what the fork is doing.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

TallPaul_S said:


> The bits where it's sitting deeper into the travel is (I think) some berms so I may need a little more LSC? My main goal is small-medium size bump sensitivity, specifically on fast sections, but I didn't want to have HSR too far open as I reckon it'd get a bit bouncy on any bigger drops to flat!
> 
> I'm looking at putting in a 160mm air shaft with a luftkappe at some point, but the fork is feeling 100x better than it was.
> 
> The video is good to have, I have them in 120fps too so I can slow mo sections to see what the fork is doing.


You might be right on the LSC side, but it looks like your fork is already fairly wide-open on LSC right?

One thing to note is that the fork is only using about 100mm of travel on this run...yet it seems to also hover around there at times. I see this with a lot of friends of mine and their Fit4/Grip2 36's (hardly using the travel). They never even come close to hitting the Kashima logo let alone bottoming out (which is above the Kashima logo). You might consider removing a token. Its another variable to manage but might be worth it. That's the stuff I'm messing with currently. I'd be worried that the fork is ramping up really hard towards the end instead of gradually (on the curve) using the travel to slow down and dampen the impact.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

TallPaul_S said:


> The bits where it's sitting deeper into the travel is (I think) some berms so I may need a little more LSC? My main goal is small-medium size bump sensitivity, specifically on fast sections, but I didn't want to have HSR too far open as I reckon it'd get a bit bouncy on any bigger drops to flat!
> 
> I'm looking at putting in a 160mm air shaft with a luftkappe at some point, but the fork is feeling 100x better than it was.
> 
> The video is good to have, I have them in 120fps too so I can slow mo sections to see what the fork is doing.


For your weight i would try this as a base setting -

70psi
0-1 volume spacer
15 HSC
10 LSC
6-7 HSR
7-8 LSR
all from close

Make the same run/loop few times and see how it feels, and adjust from here (one change at the time, 2 klicks max).


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Muddy-Runs said:


> For your weight i would try this as a base setting -
> 
> 70psi
> 0-1 volume spacer
> ...


See Your rebound is quite fast, don't You feel harash on wrists by having too much stiffness?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G988B przy użyciu Tapatalka


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

Placek said:


> See Your rebound is quite fast, don't You feel harash on wrists by having too much stiffness?
> 
> Wysłane z mojego SM-G988B przy użyciu Tapatalka


Thats not my setup, its a base setup that i think will fit this guy and his style/terrain based on the info he gave so far...

This setup works best for me at the moment, based on my terrain and style are -

54psi \ 22% sag
0 volume spacers
16 HSC
10 LSC
8 HSR
9 LSR
All from close

In general i like fast rebound as possible, as long as its not bouncy or uncomfortable. So far this setup is smooth, comfy (no harsh wrists/hands), and i can fly true everything, but if needs i'll adjust it a bit based on the terrains.


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## Stokergti (Jun 11, 2020)

Any one had trouble with a warranty claim through SilverFish? 
Sent mine off because it has the wrong number of high and low speed compression clicks and a noticeable knock from the air side when rocked.

Just received them back with a note saying there’s nothing wrong with them?

What’s everyone else’s experiences with them?


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## Barmelito (May 2, 2020)

Hello, i ve had the similar problem, claimed warranty, same answer, its normal that it has more cliks, in manual you can find that only 16clicks from closed are usable. And knocking noise was gone after 100-200km, i also added some oil to the lowers, there was like half of what it should be there. Also its good to clean negative air chamber, there is usually a lot of grease.


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## Barmelito (May 2, 2020)

I wanted to ask if anyone have problem with volume spacers? I was ridding with 1 volume spacer till now, today i wanted to add another one and i just cant. The topcap assembly just wont screw in when i have 2 or 3 spacers, the thread has to be poorly made.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Barmelito said:


> I wanted to ask if anyone have problem with volume spacers? I was ridding with 1 volume spacer till now, today i wanted to add another one and i just cant. The topcap assembly just wont screw in when i have 2 or 3 spacers, the thread has to be poorly made.


Spacers are not in straight line in effect cap thread is not inline with stanchion thread. Tricky ****. Tried 1-2min to thread in succesfully :/


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## Barmelito (May 2, 2020)

Ok i tried it for almost 30 minutes and it still didnt fit, oh man this is just crazy! ,i just fit there 3 pieces of 34 volume spacers instead of two 36 one and i hope it will not rattle much haha.


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

ehfour said:


> Adding to this thread
> 
> 185 lbs riding in the PNW
> 
> ...


update on my settings: Ive settled on these 2 setups

All settings are from closed
160mm Travel

Transition Sentinel

Dry setup- Sits higher in the travel (duh) Steep Tech- Roots and woodwork, few drops, no rock slabs
75 psi
2 tokens
11-12 HSC
6-8 LSC
5 LSR
6 HSR

Wet setup- Sits lower in the travel, good for wet Steep Tech- Roots and woodwork,, few drops, no rock slabs
68 psi
2 tokens
8 HSC
8 LSC
5 LSR
6 HSR


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## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

ehfour said:


> update on my settings: Ive settled on these 2 setups
> 
> All settings are from closed
> 
> ...


Thanks to all you folks sharing setup. I would suggest including fork travel length as a critical parameter as well. I've found riding this fork from 140-160mm that my air pressure - and to a lesser extent damper settings - needed notable adjustment. This is due to both air spring volume changes (with travel adjustment) as well as tuning preferences for the different terrain/styles of riding that come with different fork travel lengths.


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

rccp said:


> Thanks to all you folks sharing setup. I would suggest including fork travel length as a critical parameter as well. I've found riding this fork from 140-160mm that my air pressure - and to a lesser extent damper settings - needed notable adjustment. This is due to both air spring volume changes (with travel adjustment) as well as tuning preferences for the different terrain/styles of riding that come with different fork travel lengths.


Good call out, I thought I added it in earlier in the thread, but updated it now with travel and bike


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

rccp said:


> Thanks to all you folks sharing setup. I would suggest including fork travel length as a critical parameter as well. I've found riding this fork from 140-160mm that my air pressure - and to a lesser extent damper settings - needed notable adjustment. This is due to both air spring volume changes (with travel adjustment) as well as tuning preferences for the different terrain/styles of riding that come with different fork travel lengths.


how is your PSI changing with the travel? More or less PSI when you drop travel?


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## DevinciSean (Sep 6, 2007)

Can anyone running the 36 at 140mm share their settings?


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

Is it normal to have more HSC/LSC klicks after some time?

When i got the Grip2 (three month ago) i had 16HSC/12LSC from close. Since the bike parks are open now, i decided to play a bit with HSC/LSC, and i found out that im having more klicks - 20HSC/16LSC (from close)... The fork still working great, but its a bit strange.


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## darkcrow (Oct 19, 2016)

Anyone have any information regards on oil volume from different fork travel?


I have enquiries regarding the 2021 Fox 36 Grip2 29" Oil Volume. I'll be converting the 160mm travel 29" fork to 140mm travel with Fox Racing 36mm EVOL Air Shaft assembly 2021.


Oil volume for 160mm travel is 40cc Fox Racing Shox Suspension Oil 5WT PTFE on the damper side and 10cc Fox Racing Shox Suspension Oil 20wt Gold on the air side.


How about shorter travel 140mm? Are the oil volumes the same?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Muddy-Runs said:


> Is it normal to have more HSC/LSC klicks after some time?
> 
> When i got the Grip2 (three month ago) i had 16HSC/12LSC from close. Since the bike parks are open now, i decided to play a bit with HSC/LSC, and i found out that im having more klicks - 20HSC/16LSC (from close)... The fork still working great, but its a bit strange.


My settings for the bike parks are always a bit different then my settings for my local trails. For what it's worth, this fork only has 16 clicks of HSC, so your change from 16-20 isn't doing anything, however the LSC changes will have a small effect. To me, it means that you are either riding less steep, but chunkier terrain or you are in need of a lower leg service.

My local stuff is much steeper then what I ride at the bike parks on the west coast. However the bike parks have more high speed chunky sections. The combo of the two usually has me dropping my bars/stem spacers by 5mm, and loosening up HSC/HSC by a click or two.

Question for those still reading this thread... I want to move my 36 to a bike that has a 130mm fork. I could have sworn I saw somewhere about someone modifying a 36 air shaft by cutting off the bottom and re-threading the bottom foot nut portion of the shaft... however I cannot find that now. Does anyone have better google kung-fu or memory that knows where that info lives?


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## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

svinyard said:


> how is your PSI changing with the travel? More or less PSI when you drop travel?


Sorry, missed this. Generally with reduced fork travel PSI is increased. I'm seeing this less so in my case with the Vorsprung Luftkappe which increases negative air spring volume and decreases positive air spring volume, the latter being similar to adding more tokens. So more progressive for the same base PSI, which I'm assuming is the reason my air pressure hasn't increased as much as I thought it would.


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## Exalix (Aug 9, 2016)

darkcrow said:


> Anyone have any information regards on oil volume from different fork travel?
> 
> 
> I have enquiries regarding the 2021 Fox 36 Grip2 29" Oil Volume. I'll be converting the 160mm travel 29" fork to 140mm travel with Fox Racing 36mm EVOL Air Shaft assembly 2021.
> ...


Bath oil volume is the same regardless of travel.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Since there were some posts asking... I just converted my 36 from 160mm to 130mm to put it on my trail bike. Overall, I didn't change much with regards to compression and rebound settings once I switched the travel. I added a click of HSC but left everything else the same. 

I did add 1 token (up from 1 when i ran it at 160mm) and I upped the air spring from 77psi to 92 psi for the travel reduction.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm getting a baseline on a stock F36 Grip2 before I put a secus in.

Currently
~70kg rider.
55psi
LSC closed.
HSC open.
HSR open.
LSR about 12 clicks open.

Coming off a mattoc and Mezzer the mid-stroke is the biggest difference.


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## dantae (Dec 5, 2019)

Dougal said:


> I'm getting a baseline on a stock F36 Grip2 before I put a secus in.
> 
> Currently
> ~70kg rider.
> ...


Please share your experience with the Secus, thanks.


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## Billyskye (Feb 28, 2021)

svinyard said:


> I hear you man, its confusing BUT....remember Fox tech also told me to basically do what Pivot said as well. He start to start your clicks from the OPEN (CCW) side and then add compression from there...around 8 clicks of HSC to start. That is fairly close to Pivot in that he also said 25 to 28% said is his recommendation. All of that is the oppositive of Fox's documentation BUT hearing it from Fox directly (twice) and also hearing it from Pivot (they did their own testing etc) is encouraging. I also spoke with WorldwideCyclery today and they told me to setup the fork using the same starting point as Pivot/Fox tech (Start open). They were aware of the confusion.
> 
> So I just rode mine for 10 miles, all downhill for the most part. Some of it super steep and gnarly (for me) where i had to walk parts etc and hit my ass on the back tire on one of the enduro stages. So here is what I found.
> 
> ...


hi seems like you have found what I'm looking for what weight are you? I'm around 170lbs originally ran 20% sag compression full open very harsh over chatter. Think my rebound was to low also.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

my f36 grip2 2020 with luftkappe knocks like bottoming 10-20mm before bottom out. Could it be caused by too little oil + air in damper which cause IFP to knocks? I have no other ideas.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

nikon255 said:


> my f36 grip2 2020 with luftkappe knocks like bottoming 10-20mm before bottom out. Could it be caused by too little oil + air in damper which cause IFP to knocks? I have no other ideas.


 Could be the IFP spring moving at rubbing against the shaft. I would suggest a tear down of the damper to make sure everything is in place


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Could be the IFP spring moving at rubbing against the shaft. I would suggest a tear down of the damper to make sure everything is in place


checked compression assembly. All in one piece, ifp shaft is clean. This time damper was assembled full of oil, no cycling before inserted in fork. Damping feels much stiffer than before. Maybe it will get softer when puke excess volume of oil or damper was aerated and emulsyfing caused fade. By the way do you think motorex fork oil 2,5 is good enough for fox dhx2 shock?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

nikon255 said:


> checked compression assembly. All in one piece, ifp shaft is clean. This time damper was assembled full of oil, no cycling before inserted in fork. Damping feels much stiffer than before. Maybe it will get softer when puke excess volume of oil or damper was aerated and emulsyfing caused fade. By the way do you think motorex fork oil 2,5 is good enough for fox dhx2 shock?


Yeah there will be some spring preload applying pressure until it has been fully cycled through

Yeah motorex 2.5 is great, I've been using it and works well. Most 2.5wt oils don't fade enough to be a problem in mtb. Sorry I hadn't forgot your last email was just thinking of it today!


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Yeah there will be some spring preload applying pressure until it has been fully cycled through
> 
> Yeah motorex 2.5 is great, I've been using it and works well. Most 2.5wt oils don't fade enough to be a problem in mtb. Sorry I hadn't forgot your last email was just thinking of it today!


Thank you!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> checked compression assembly. All in one piece, ifp shaft is clean. This time damper was assembled full of oil, no cycling before inserted in fork. Damping feels much stiffer than before. Maybe it will get softer when puke excess volume of oil or damper was aerated and emulsyfing caused fade. By the way do you think motorex fork oil 2,5 is good enough for fox dhx2 shock?


I had a knocking GRIP2. Took the compression assembly out, couldn't find a cause. Put it back in and silent. Everything points to the IFP and spring but whatever it was came right.

Motorex 2.5 works great in those. Fox have switched to Motorex 4wt for the 2021 X2's. The difference between 2.5wt and 4wt is tiny. IMO they are interchangeable and mixable.


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## Luke in the Dolomites (Apr 22, 2021)

Hey guys after a bit of advise on fork settings. Currently riding a Nukeproof Mega 2019 170mm grip 2. I'm probably about 90kg all kitted up I have been running standard fox setting off there website with 20% sag no tokens at the moment but feel it could be better. I moved to the the mountains a couple of years back and ride allot of downhill runs with rocks roots ,berms and waist to shoulder drops and a few small jumps (hoping to improve here). Ive been playing about with the setting a bit but i haven't managed to find the sweet spot so i normally just revert back to fox recommendations.


LSR 4
HSR 3
LSC06
HSC10

Any help welcome cheers 🤛🤛🤛


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

What are you hoping to improve? Did you set sag standing in attack position or seated?


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## Luke in the Dolomites (Apr 22, 2021)

Attack position for the sag, the fork seem to feel a little dead sometimes i think it packing up. Ive tried adding more rebound but as i said i cant seen to find the sweet spot.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Luke in the Dolomites said:


> Attack position for the sag, the fork seem to feel a little dead sometimes i think it packing up. Ive tried adding more rebound but as i said i cant seen to find the sweet spot.


I'd play with more pressure and less LSC. Also, try opening the LSR but leave the HSR where it is or even close it a click.


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## Luke in the Dolomites (Apr 22, 2021)

jeremy3220 said:


> I'd play with more pressure and less LSC. Also, try opening the LSR but leave the HSR where it is or even close it a click.


U think more pressure then ? On bigger stuff im hitting the bottom of the Kashima logo running about 70psi


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Luke in the Dolomites said:


> U think more pressure then ? On bigger stuff im hitting the bottom of the Kashima logo running about 70psi


Yeah, basically to make more lively increase pressure and/or decrease damping.


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

lol, 90kg and 70psi and dead slow rebound...

try 90 to 95psi with lsr/hsr each 5-6clicks from closed.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Definitely too soft spring. Jordie said starting pressure is your weight in kilograms. Im 78kg and my pressure is 82,5psi with luftkappe at 170mm. Still able to bottoms, but I fly high


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I'm 215 lbs (95kg?) and I ran the same rebound settings on my 2020 36.


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

jeremy3220 said:


> I'm 215 lbs (95kg?) and I ran the same rebound settings on my 2020 36.


rebound mostly depends on the spring rate, not directly on the rider weight. So when you run your 36 with e.g. 99psi, 3-4clicks rebound is fine, 70psi with the same settings is not


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> Definitely too soft spring. Jordie said starting pressure is your weight in kilograms. Im 78kg and my pressure is 82,5psi with luftkappe at 170mm. Still able to bottoms, but I fly high


You need more compression damping.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Dougal said:


> You need more compression damping.


Im not professionalist so my settings are compromise. 82,5psi just works good with 450lbs on the rear. Compression kills my hands on lift assisted bikepark days. You know I pulled trigger on mezzer and that was badluck. I just gave up on looking for holy grail. If you got any sugesstion for stock grip2 I'd be more than happy to give it a try 

Our local trails. Last one is huge and can cause bottom out.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> Im not professionalist so my settings are compromise. 82,5psi just works good with 450lbs on the rear. Compression kills my hands on lift assisted bikepark days. You know I pulled trigger on mezzer and that was badluck. I just gave up on looking for holy grail. If you got any sugesstion for stock grip2 I'd be more than happy to give it a try
> 
> Our local trails. Last one is huge and can cause bottom out.


The GRIP2 has the same issue as the RS Chargers. The mid-valve is too restrictive and that's what's killing your hands. They have reduced base-valve compression too much to try and compensate. On the 2021 VVC I have doubled and tripled stock damping for customers already. I haven't dyno'd a stock 2018-2020, it's difficult to get a baseline on those because the shims are loose with no HSC and preloaded with too much (same problem with the first Manitou McLeod, needs a dyno to set them correctly). At least 2021 GRIp2 has a flat piston with the shims clamped.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

so nothing new


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> so nothing new


I'm sure 2022 will be awesome and they will be manufacturing unicorns with rainbows.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

I want to soften midvalve pulling out one shim. This shim is removed in 38 grip2 damper. Any advice if I need to disassemble whole piston, shaft, rebound needles or just the hsr preload nut, lift the piston then reasseble and done?


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

first mark the position of the vvc nut on the hsr adjuster rod, makes proper assembly far easier. Then loosen the small hex screw which clamps that nut, remove the whole vvc assembly. The piston with the hsr shims could be removed from the shaft, it has some flat surfaces for a cone wrench. Unthread, remove the middle shim from the midvalve and assemble everything back together.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

reo-fahrer said:


> first mark the position of the vvc nut on the hsr adjuster rod, makes proper assembly far easier. Then loosen the small hex screw which clamps that nut, remove the whole vvc assembly. The piston with the hsr shims could be removed from the shaft, it has some flat surfaces for a cone wrench. Unthread, remove the middle shim from the midvalve and assemble everything back together.


Probably I made it wrong way. I loosen preload nut, but was unable to unthread it from the piston. To remove vvc I had to rotate hsr clicker a lot, cuz leafs of preloader kept nut from spining due to two small pins on piston. Now Im afraid I wont be able set the same preload cuz I didnt count the clicks... I marked nut and leaf position but it could be not enough. Tommorow I will try to assemble it back. Hope everything will be clear, but just in case any tips are highly appreciated


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> Probably I made it wrong way. I loosen preload nut, but was unable to unthread it from the piston. To remove vvc I had to rotate hsr clicker a lot, cuz leafs of preloader kept nut from spining due to two small pins on piston. Now Im afraid I wont be able set the same preload cuz I didnt count the clicks... I marked nut and leaf position but it could be not enough. Tommorow I will try to assemble it back. Hope everything will be clear, but just in case any tips are highly appreciated


There is a drawing on the fox site which shows how they set the rebound VVC. It involves setting a gap with a feeler guage at a specific knob position.
Title is"2021 36 VVC HSR/LSR Damper Shaft Assemblies".


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

Besides measuring that gap: with the thread pitch of that nut/hsr rod, there's only one "right" position of the nut when aligned with that mark: when you assemble it, one turn less and the leaf springs sit loose on the vvc plate, one turn more and it's the correct position, one more turn and there's that much preload on the leaf springs that it won't work at all. Of course only when everything else has been properly assembled


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

reo-fahrer said:


> Besides measuring that gap: with the thread pitch of that nut/hsr rod, there's only one "right" position of the nut when aligned with that mark: when you assemble it, one turn less and the leaf springs sit loose on the vvc plate, one turn more and it's the correct position, one more turn and there's that much preload on the leaf springs that it won't work at all. Of course only when everything else has been properly assembled


Yes that can work if you're putting it back together exactly as you found it with no changes to the shims or pistons.

But I never do it that way.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

its better to measure with feeler gauge, but assembled back based on my mark and there no chance to make it wrong. Huge difference with 1 turn CW or CCW from base position. Leafs are preloaded too much or not at all and between is correct position


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

By the way I took out 2 compression shims, because this fork can go almost locked out.


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

nikon255 said:


> By the way I took out 2 compression shims, because this fork can go almost locked out.


I went back to three in the non-vvc hsc, two was too soft.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

reo-fahrer said:


> I went back to three in the non-vvc hsc, two was too soft.


Ohh good to know. How was the damper with softer midvalve and softer shimstack?


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

nikon255 said:


> Ohh good to know. How was the damper with softer midvalve and softer shimstack?


I run the current 2021 mid valve (check valve shim + ring, removed the middle one) and three shims on the compression side. And yes, that will probably stay in there for a while  10-14clicks hsc, 7-8clicks lsc, lsr/hsr each 6 clicks (all from closed). 170mm with no token, 82psi, 81kg.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

reo-fahrer said:


> I run the current 2021 mid valve (check valve shim + ring, removed the middle one) and three shims on the compression side. And yes, that will probably stay in there for a while  10-14clicks hsc, 7-8clicks lsc, lsr/hsr each 6 clicks (all from closed). 170mm with no token, 82psi, 81kg.


Thanks. You still have hsc backed off. 1 less shim is too soft, even with hsc closed? Or too much preload got harsh?


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

usually less preload and more overall stiffness works better. With only one or two shims and only a few clicks open you'll have a blow-off style valve.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

As you fix the mid-valve you'll realise how much more support these forks can use.


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

Dougal said:


> As you fix the mid-valve you'll realise how much more support these forks can use.


you mean, after removing 110% of the desired compression damping  one could start and dial in a useful damping with the compression adjusters?


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

reo-fahrer said:


> I run the current 2021 mid valve (check valve shim + ring, removed the middle one) and three shims on the compression side. And yes, that will probably stay in there for a while  10-14clicks hsc, 7-8clicks lsc, lsr/hsr each 6 clicks (all from closed). 170mm with no token, 82psi,


Have to say that feels better. While on the bike I lift front wheel, smash on the ground and fork doesnt punish my hands. Just absorbing nicely. Im not sure about 7 lsc out, cuz it kick a little while smashed lightly. -10 on both lsc and hsc feels great. Need to test it on trails. Did you test 2 shims with more lsc damping?


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

nikon255 said:


> Did you test 2 shims with more lsc damping?


not really, when the trails dried and got faster, I was winding in more and more HSC and it didn't rode that well, just a snappy "plattform" but no real hsc, so I went back to three hsc shims without further testing.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

reo-fahrer said:


> not really, when the trails dried and got faster, I was winding in more and more HSC and it didn't rode that well, just a snappy "plattform" but no real hsc, so I went back to three hsc shims without further testing.


Which damper oil you use?


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

Maxima 3wt Racing Shock Fluid


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

How deep upper bushings should be seated? Does it need to be pushed down? I feel like right stanchion has little play. Bushings are not oversized.


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

This is interesting... Specialized is liquidating a bunch of new old stock, OEM, 2019 150mm Factory Grip2's (51m offset) on ebay. Price is ok; not retail, but not fire sale cheap either. Its not 2021 VVC but, on the other hand, it is available to purchase at least which can often be the deciding factor lately.









2019 Factory Series 36 FLOAT 29 GRIP2 Fork, BOOST 150mm 51mm offset NEW! | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2019 Factory Series 36 FLOAT 29 GRIP2 Fork, BOOST 150mm 51mm offset NEW! at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## mmmmtnbkr1 (Jul 21, 2013)

@Dougal

2019 Grip2 midvalve: 3 shims in a horn configuration ( 17.35x0.10mm, 14x0.10mm, 11x0.10mm)
2021 Grip2 midvalve: 2 shims ( 17.35x0.10mm, 11x0.10mm)
2017 Grip midvalve: 1 shim (17.35x*0.15*mm)

Have you tested the simple Grip damper vs the Grip2 damper in terms of midvalve contribution to damping? I've heard more complaints about Grip2 harshness than Grip harshness, maybe this is part of the reason? Do you think modifying a 2019 Grip2 midvalve to only contain the check shim (17.35x*0.10*mm) would be okay, or is 0.10mm too thin and may result in permanent deformation?


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## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

mmmmtnbkr1 said:


> @Dougal
> 
> 2019 Grip2 midvalve: 3 shims in a horn configuration ( 17.35x0.10mm, 14x0.10mm, 11x0.10mm)
> 2021 Grip2 midvalve: 2 shims ( 17.35x0.10mm, 11x0.10mm)
> ...


this was already discussed about 10 posts before, just read my and nikon255 posts?


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

nikon255 said:


> How deep upper bushings should be seated? Does it need to be pushed down? I feel like right stanchion has little play. Bushings are not oversized.


Nobody knows anything? I heard that pushing bushing deeper make them tighter. My right bushing is higher than left. Can it create mentioned play?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

nikon255 said:


> Nobody knows anything? I heard that pushing bushing deeper make them tighter. My right bushing is higher than left. Can it create mentioned play?


They are usually seated flush. I would get them sized before attempting to adjust them, in my experience the ones that feel loose are
More likely to be 1 tighter than the other and it rocks back and forth, pivoting around the tight one.

you are much better off being slightly loose than too tight, I don't think I've seen a legitimately loose bushing in over a decade


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

JohnnyC7 said:


> They are usually seated flush. I would get them sized before attempting to adjust them, in my experience the ones that feel loose are
> More likely to be 1 tighter than the other and it rocks back and forth, pivoting around the tight one.
> 
> you are much better off being slightly loose than too tight, I don't think I've seen a legitimately loose bushing in over a decade


Flush to the upper groove supporting foam ring? I have burnisher nominal 36,1 with size varying from 36,08 to 36,10 and bushing were already made. Burnisher still fits pretty tight. Really hard to rotate inside bushing. So bushings should not be too lose. I measured diamenter, roundness and everything to be sure of its size. Im just afraid about bushing coming loose from lowers. Anything else to check?


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Hmm I see thats tought situation. Gonna get new wipers and make some r&d or phd about bushings


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> Flush to the upper groove supporting foam ring? I have burnisher nominal 36,1 with size varying from 36,08 to 36,10 and bushing were already made. Burnisher still fits pretty tight. Really hard to rotate inside bushing. So bushings should not be too lose. I measured diamenter, roundness and everything to be sure of its size. Im just afraid about bushing coming loose from lowers. Anything else to check?


If you are concerned about the bushing coming out, you can lightly peen the outer surface to roughen it and increase the grip.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mmmmtnbkr1 said:


> @Dougal
> 
> 2019 Grip2 midvalve: 3 shims in a horn configuration ( 17.35x0.10mm, 14x0.10mm, 11x0.10mm)
> 2021 Grip2 midvalve: 2 shims ( 17.35x0.10mm, 11x0.10mm)
> ...


I haven't yet tuned or fully tested a normal GRIP. But the piston geometry is the same. You may be okay with one shim or it may flutter.


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## mmmmtnbkr1 (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks. I took your suggestion to look at the Midvalve. As reo-fahrer and nikon have done, I removed the middle shim, and the fork is greatly improved now. It used to launch me in the air when I hit sharp bumps at high speed, but now they are absorbed. I moved the HSR range too so I can have a little better unweighted ground tracking. Could certainly use more support now too. Previously I had lsc closed and hsc full open, but now it seems like the adjusters act better more linked. Hsc most of the way open but not fully, and lsc 5-10 clicks open feels the best. 

My fork is good now. Only took a smashpot, bushing burnishing, different oils and greases, revalving the Midvalve, shaving material off the axle holes so that it matches the hub width, and wicking locktite in the csu stanchion interface. Next time its a Manitou.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

After reading your post


mmmmtnbkr1 said:


> Thanks. I took your suggestion to look at the Midvalve. As reo-fahrer and nikon have done, I removed the middle shim, and the fork is greatly improved now. It used to launch me in the air when I hit sharp bumps at high speed, but now they are absorbed. I moved the HSR range too so I can have a little better unweighted ground tracking. Could certainly use more support now too. Previously I had lsc closed and hsc full open, but now it seems like the adjusters act better more linked. Hsc most of the way open but not fully, and lsc 5-10 clicks open feels the best.
> 
> My fork is good now. Only took a smashpot, bushing burnishing, different oils and greases, revalving the Midvalve, shaving material off the axle holes so that it matches the hub width, and wicking locktite in the csu stanchion interface. Next time its a Manitou.


Sounds good  I had first batch mezzer. Unfortunately I stayed with f36, cuz two mezzers was faulty then cash back. At least manitou warranty system is great. Maybe someday I will try it for the third time


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Any differencies between flanged and flangless SKF wipers for F36? Does both fit? Im wondering if flanged are just easier to push in properly.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

JohnnyC7 said:


> They are usually seated flush. I would get them sized before attempting to adjust them, in my experience the ones that feel loose are
> More likely to be 1 tighter than the other and it rocks back and forth, pivoting around the tight one.
> 
> you are much better off being slightly loose than too tight, I don't think I've seen a legitimately loose bushing in over a decade


I took out dust wipers and checked. All bushings were made with 36,08+0,02 burnisher but looks like play occurs on lower bushings. Weird cuz all got burnished the same way and produced same resistance for burnisher. Im not sure if this small play is something to worry about. By the way checked if hub width has any impact. Luckly no. Unfortunately no room for improvement except coil...


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