# Motor resistance on 2020 Turbo Levo Comp?



## Delta_kilo (Oct 30, 2006)

I just purchased a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp so far great bike not much to complain about. I have noticed something odd about the motor when I first get on the bike with the power turned off I feel no resistance from the motor while peddling the bike un-powered. After riding for awhile with battery ON I tried turning the power off to ride the bike un-powered to my surprise there was lots of resistance or drag in the motor I double checked to make sure the power was off and it was. Tried cycling the power ON-OFF no change in motor resistance, but once the bike sat for a couple of hours and I got back on to ride with power off there was no resistance in the motor it was back to normal. Anyone experience this seems to me if one turns the power OFF to the motor anytime there shouldn't be any peddling resistance present.

Dave


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## RichardWad (Sep 24, 2019)

My 2019 Levo Comp has tremendous motor drag when

Im out on the trail and then switch the motor assistance to zero.

If im riding out on the neighborhood with the motor assistance at zero, i dont feel motor drag. 


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## Delta_kilo (Oct 30, 2006)

RichardWad said:


> My 2019 Levo Comp has tremendous motor drag when
> 
> Im out on the trail and then switch the motor assistance to zero.
> 
> ...


Interesting so you feel it as well it almost feels like the back brake is being held on. Not that I will be riding with the power off on a regular basis so its not a major problem, but better hope like hell one doesn't get caught with a dead battery 20 miles from home nothing worse then trying to peddle a 52 lbs bike with what feels like having the brakes locked on.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

I have found that running the battery dead on the Shimano systems results in incredible drag. As long as there is charge even in off the drag is minimal. 


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Did you buy a used ebike Specialized Turbo Levo Comp?

Your symptoms are odd, as it should be freewheeling and no resistance. 
Could be that the clutch is busted. Perhaps something is loose in there.
It an entirely proprietary system, its their own special blend of herbs and spices so there is no repairing anything yourself on it. Take it back to the dealer and ask them.
----
The only motors that have resistance are direct drive hub motors which dont have a clutch and are much more reliable with less moving parts. Mid drive motors are geared motors, and along with geared hub motors has no resistance. That is why direct drive (dd) motors can achieve regeneration either as braking or regen back into the battery. Every kind of motor has its pro's and con's.



Delta_kilo said:


> I just purchased a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp so far great bike not much to complain about. I have noticed something odd about the motor when I first get on the bike with the power turned off I feel no resistance from the motor while peddling the bike un-powered. After riding for awhile with battery ON I tried turning the power off to ride the bike un-powered to my surprise there was lots of resistance or drag in the motor I double checked to make sure the power was off and it was. Tried cycling the power ON-OFF no change in motor resistance, but once the bike sat for a couple of hours and I got back on to ride with power off there was no resistance in the motor it was back to normal. Anyone experience this seems to me if one turns the power OFF to the motor anytime there shouldn't be any peddling resistance present.
> 
> Dave


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## RichardWad (Sep 24, 2019)

My buddy and I both have 2019, both bought new, Levo Comps from separate LBS.

Both exhibit extreme motor/drivetrain drag when we switch the assistance off while out on the mountain. 

For example, when I'm out on the mountain and i turn the assistance off, i can last only 10-15 feet before i can't take it anymore and have to turn the assistance back on. 

Is this extreme motor drag just a figment of my imagination due to me being tired on the trail? Maybe--- I haven't ridden with the assistance off enough in the parking lot to compare it to the way it feels while on the trail.


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## Delta_kilo (Oct 30, 2006)

[/QUOTE]Is this extreme motor drag just a figment of my imagination due to me being tired on the trail? Maybe--- I haven't ridden with the assistance off enough in the parking lot to compare it to the way it feels while on the trail.[/QUOTE]

Don't think so I'm in pretty good shape there's no way I'm that tired after maybe 10 miles or so. I email Specialized never did get an answer I might go down to the LBS and have a talk with them this week.

Matt4x4 Yes I purchased the bike brand new last week.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

My 2020 Levo Comp exhibits the same pedaling thru sand behaviour. It rolls fine downhill when not pedaling so the issue isn't any freewheel component. Its when pedaling above the assistance limit when the drag is felt the most. Feels like the motor is always engaged and the drag is just that, a continually connected motor...but with no power. If the motor totally disengaged its drive then we wouldn't be feeling the drag imo but I'm unsure of how the motor drive setup works or if it is even capable of doing this, just a theory..

Removing the limiter I hear works wonders.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Wouldnt it be easy to find out the drag by flipping the bike over (or putting it on a stand) and seeing how the wheel spins with the power on, then the power off and just using your hand to turn the pedals.

If there is drag on that motor, and its a natural symptom of them store bought bikes then that is entirely odd.


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## csf (Apr 28, 2007)

How does this drag compare with 2017 levo? Thinking of upgrading from 17 levo to 20 levo comp


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

Is this extreme motor drag just a figment of my imagination due to me being tired on the trail? Maybe--- I haven't ridden with the assistance off enough in the parking lot to compare it to the way it feels while on the trail.[/QUOTE]

Don't think so I'm in pretty good shape there's no way I'm that tired after maybe 10 miles or so. I email Specialized never did get an answer I might go down to the LBS and have a talk with them this week.

Matt4x4 Yes I purchased the bike brand new last week.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you are tired, but when ever you remove 200 - 750 watts of power you are going to notice it big time. You are in a gear that supports your power plus the bikes power, turn off the bike and you are in way to high of a gear to support your power. Same thing happens if you click down a power level while you remain in the gear that supported the higher power level. Same thing happens when you hit the limiter. You plus the bike are able to go 20mph, at 21mph you have lost all bike power which would be maybe 200 -700 watts, so guess what you cannot sustain that speed now unless you are on a downhill. What I do is make sure I am in Eco as I approach the speed limit, makes it less shocking. Have fun out there!


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## Delta_kilo (Oct 30, 2006)

robmac48 said:


> My 2020 Levo Comp exhibits the same pedaling thru sand behaviour. It rolls fine downhill when not pedaling so the issue isn't any freewheel component. Its when pedaling above the assistance limit when the drag is felt the most. Feels like the motor is always engaged and the drag is just that, a continually connected motor...but with no power. If the motor totally disengaged its drive then we wouldn't be feeling the drag imo but I'm unsure of how the motor drive setup works or if it is even capable of doing this, just a theory..
> 
> Removing the limiter I hear works wonders.


Peddling through sand that's a good analogy that's exactly how it feels.

Not sure I'm willing to remove the limiter yet due to warranty issues.

I finally heard back from Specialized here's what they said.

Thanks for the email. That is pretty standard and nothing to be worried about. The bike is intended to be used with the motor and there will usually be a bit of motor drag right after switching off the assist.

Have a great day

They didn't answer much of my question in any detail just a blanket statement maybe because they don't manufacturer the motor themselves, and have limited knowledge of how the motor, and embedded software actually works who knows. So basically live with it


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Ouch @ Specialized
That really sucks that you pay all that money for a proprietary system and there is drag. I wonder how much drag there is compared to a direct drive hub motor with no power applied to it. I've had some real big motors with lots of drag, but the 9C clones actually have much less drag. I wonder if it has to do with the spacing of the magnets as well as the strength of the magnets. I will actually try to find that for you in the other forum and get back to you.

Thats why the mid drives with the freewheeling crank are a much better choice, well atleast for me. Easy to buy the components, and easy to put together.


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

*psyched out?*

As alluded to on post #11 above I think what you guys are experiencing in "psychosomatic drag". That is, you become accustomed to a certain acceleration in response to a given effort and when this decreases your mind/body interprets this as an increase in resistance. It's the change that is perceived.

Ebike motor drag was discussed in an earlier thread started by fc:
https://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/what-drag-level-various-motor-systems-1103942.html

The Brose motor in the Levo does have a very small amount of resistance when it's turned off, but it's insignificant compared to other sources of drag such as tire rolling resistance. From post #18 of the above thread:

_"I made a crude measurement on my '19 Levo. With the chain off the cranks spin forward 2-3 revolutions with a light flip the pedal. I put some small weights on the pedal and found that it took about 100-110g to cause it to drop. The crank arms are 165mm, so that corresponds to roughly 1/8 ft. lb. (<0.2Nm) of force if my math is correct."_

In addition, the Brose motor uses a sprag clutch which is fast engaging and disengaging and offers low resistance when disengaged. There is essentially no motor resistance when free-wheeling. The cranks spin freely backwards.


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## jmcdev1 (Jan 1, 2011)

New 2020 levo FSR does the same thing. This is definitely not psychosomatic. I have found that the clutch will disengage and freewheel after a very short period of time if you are tilted downhill. However on flat or level terrain it will not disengage for a good 30-45 seconds and keeps cutting in and out rapidly in a very irritating manner. And there is really significant resistance when the motor engages again every time. I believe this is something that they will figure out in the software eventually but they haven't got it yet. It doesn't bother me so much because it happens very rarely and only when commuting, when the motor engages again repeatedly, but never up in the woods have I noticed it. I just live with it for now.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Maybe if you just use the throttle a sliver, if that is possible at all. I would do that on a direct drive motor so there wouldnt be any drag, like literally 5Wh of power to over ride the drag.

Spending that kind of money and having that problem would be a simple fix on the manufacturers part, its just they are probably leaning towards the casual rider and not the technical riders.

Could be to save the components from wearing out and causing too high a warranty work. That is most likely it.


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## stiksandstones (Oct 7, 2004)

I've turned my Levo off a few times, when passing people on trails (so they don't get pissed) and I also used it yesterday a few times riding with some friends that were on regular bikes-I feel no 'drag', only a 45lb bike.
There is no drag when the motor is off.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

I have faked pedal many a times myself, and I did not have any crank sensors at all.

Maybe what the OP is feeling is just the added weight, I dunno.
Maybe the tires are running a bit flat for that extra feeling of resistance.
Who knows.



stiksandstones said:


> I've turned my Levo off a few times, when passing people on trails (so they don't get pissed) and I also used it yesterday a few times riding with some friends that were on regular bikes-I feel no 'drag', only a 45lb bike.
> There is no drag when the motor is off.


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## akaktm (Sep 15, 2008)

My 2019 Expert doesn't seem to have any significant drag beyond the obvious almost 50lbs. I've ridden it 8 miles without assist (don't ask) and it was tolerable. When I use the motor and THEN turn it off, it *feels* like more drag, but think that's just a distorted perception after having the motor.


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## Capt.Ogg (Jun 5, 2015)

Motor drag issue is something that affects 95% of new ebike owners. Symptoms are worst when hovering around assistance cut off or turning assistance off mid ride.

You just need to get used to it and accept that riding a heavy bike is hard without assistance. Have fun with your new Levos!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Turn eco way down


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## jmcdev1 (Jan 1, 2011)

Road to top of our ultra steep mountain and burned through too much battery Sunday, then road down the backside and across the mountain in a loop back to the truck. What should have been a four hour ride turned into a six hour exhausting slog pushing the bike for the last 2.5 hours up any incline because only had two LEDs showing on the battery (2020 levo FSR with 700Wh battery). Our fault for extending the ride to go all the way to the very top instead of just riding across the caldera, for the view of town and the coast line because it was a rare absolutely clear and sunny day. 
So my question is how low do you go down with Eco mode settings to neutralize the motor drag? Are you just postulating or have you actually tried it? Didn't think to try this but it sounds brilliant. 
I like to go fast so eco-setting is Support 40%/Peak 65%, and that may have been working against me I realize now. So interested in what settings you have found work the best for this problem. Don't really plan to run out of battery again in the future but unfortunately **** happens. Could always change the ego settings during the ride if this works. That's the best suggestion in this entire thread if it really works in fact. 
We extended the battery by not turning the battery off at the remote while using walk mode on the uphills, then on the downhills pedalling to build as much momentum as possible and carrying that as far as possible up next inevitable uphill before getting off to use walk mode again as we came back across the mountain trending upwards unfortunately the last two hours. Walk mode is wonderful except when you have to use it for an uphill grind that is ultra steep and goes for almost a mile before it turns down again. No fun. Would love to find a better method for this. However, I can verify that the motor resistance does cut out almost immediately if you do not turn the motor off at the remote but simply leave it in Eco. If you do turn it off you ain't going nowhere uphill, trust me. The resistance is more like glue than sand.


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

Quite a stream of consciousness narrative!



jmcdev1 said:


> ... Could always change the ego settings during the ride if this works. That's the best suggestion in this entire thread if it really works in fact...


No argument with that! 

Out of curiosity how many miles was your ride, and what was the total elevation gain? It sounds like you just need to turn down your power assist levels, work harder, and manage your battery use more carefully. 40% is a pretty high assist level to use for the Eco setting. You could set Trail to 40% since you "like to go fast" and reduce Eco to 20-30% as a safety fall back level.

BTW, weight drag is real, but unless there's something seriously wrong with your Levo "motor drag" is in your mind.


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## jmcdev1 (Jan 1, 2011)

27 miles total, 4000 foot initial climb on the left side of the mountain to the summit caldera right from the start, extremely steep in many places, then a final brutal climb from the caldera to the top of the highest puu for the fantastic view that overlooks the entire west side of the island, then a long descent down the right side of the mountain, and finally a long traverse back across the front of the mountain that has many long, steep ups that probably add another 2000-3000 feet of climbing to the ride before the final descent back to the truck. Just too much for the battery. The climbs are mostly so steep with loose gravel and babyheads/bad ruts that it is hard to negotiate them in a low setting in Eco. No groomed trails/roads on this ride. They are not maintained and are in bad shape and you just have to hit them hard and fast if you want to make it up. The higher Eco settings were used in an attempt to stay out of Boost and save battery but that experiment failed miserably. We will just have to shorten the ride. I'm going to experiment with lower settings in eco when down to just two LEDs showing on the battery and see if it works.


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## Rorski (10 mo ago)

JillRide45 said:


> Is this extreme motor drag just a figment of my imagination due to me being tired on the trail? Maybe--- I haven't ridden with the assistance off enough in the parking lot to compare it to the way it feels while on the trail.


Don't think so I'm in pretty good shape there's no way I'm that tired after maybe 10 miles or so. I email Specialized never did get an answer I might go down to the LBS and have a talk with them this week.

Matt4x4 Yes I purchased the bike brand new last week.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you are tired, but when ever you remove 200 - 750 watts of power you are going to notice it big time. You are in a gear that supports your power plus the bikes power, turn off the bike and you are in way to high of a gear to support your power. Same thing happens if you click down a power level while you remain in the gear that supported the higher power level. Same thing happens when you hit the limiter. You plus the bike are able to go 20mph, at 21mph you have lost all bike power which would be maybe 200 -700 watts, so guess what you cannot sustain that speed now unless you are on a downhill. What I do is make sure I am in Eco as I approach the speed limit, makes it less shocking. Have fun out there!
[/QUOTE]
You nailed it there!


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