# Which Rohloff variant???



## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

I'm hopefully only a few months away from getting a Surly Troll which is going to have a Rohloff hub. It will be used mainly for remote area touring, largely on poorly surfaced or unsurfaced roads in places like India, etc, but for some off-road riding too.

What I'm trying to figure out is just exactly which hub to get. Since I'd like to keep the costs down, it seems like starbike.com is the best place to order from; I've been looking for a while and it seems they're selling new hubs for less than used hubs are going for on eBay, especially once the German VAT is removed. Please post any cheaper sources!

The non-disc, internal shifting hubs are significantly less expensive, and would not incur tax on import into Oz, while the disc/external shifting ones would as they're over the threshold. I'm not fixated on disc brakes and have a pair of Mavic Ceramic rims I could use. I gather the hubs can be converted to disc/external if necessary, and doing so might not work out to be any more costly in total, if it ever happened.

Any reason - apart from being less cool - why I shouldn't just get the basic, silver CC OEM hub? (I'm not afraid of changing the occasional cable.)

Thanks...


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

The external shifter should make taking the wheel off easier, but I am not familiar withthe troll type horizontal drop out and how to set the rohloff on that. If you aren't going steep or fast on loose surfaces, and don't need a disc brake, you could forget that part of it. Think carefully though, as I wouldn't want my rohloff without a disc.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Disclosure: I don't like disc brakes much, and don't like hydraulic discs even slightly. The only motivation I would have for getting a disc compatible hub is future-proofing, but given the GST situation here, it's probably as easy for me to switch things over if it ever needs to happen. I've been using rim brakes off-road since 1978 and haven't crashed due to brake inadequacy yet, plus disc rotors would be a lot more easily damaged in transit than wheels. While I don't doubt that discs (sometimes) work, they are vastly over-hyped IMHO.

The horizontal dropouts aren't an issue; it's just a matter of getting the right bits and all will be well.


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## punchy (Sep 30, 2008)

I kind of agree with you on the disc brakes. By that I mean, I dont think disc brakes are needed for the rear on a bike used for touring. I do like the idea of a disc brake front end, but that's another story.

According to my calculations, A basic Rohloff hub priced at 870 Euro on the Starbike site comes in at $936 Australian. Thats pretty damn good. Cheapest ive found is $1122 Australian from Universal cycles. Will definetly keep that handy. Although, Im not sure how you will avoid the GST, unless total cost including shipping comes to under $1,000. As far as im aware, shipping costs count towards the total cost, if the total cost comes to over $1,000 then we here in OZ pay GST. Im guessing the hub on its own shouldn't cost too much in freight and will probably come in under $1,000 ? That's great if it does.

I dont see anything wrong with the basic hub as you have mentioned. That is exactly what I have I think. By that I mean, its a bolt on non disc hub, fitted to a Surly Travellers check. Only Thing id be looking out for when purchasing is to make sure you are getting the latest version with the etched logo rather than the stickered older model. The newer model also apparently has better seals, and the shifter has been updated with white markings on the shifter so its a little easier to see what gear your in when the sun comes down. 

Cheers

Punchy


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## suba (Jun 25, 2009)

For the type of trip you're planning I would recommend staying with the non disk hub.


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

punchy said:


> I kind of agree with you on the disc brakes. By that I mean, I dont think disc brakes are needed for the rear on a bike used for touring. I do like the idea of a disc brake front end, but that's another story.
> 
> According to my calculations, A basic Rohloff hub priced at 870 Euro on the Starbike site comes in at $936 Australian. Thats pretty damn good. Cheapest ive found is $1122 Australian from Universal cycles. Will definetly keep that handy. Although, Im not sure how you will avoid the GST, unless total cost including shipping comes to under $1,000. As far as im aware, shipping costs count towards the total cost, if the total cost comes to over $1,000 then we here in OZ pay GST. Im guessing the hub on its own shouldn't cost too much in freight and will probably come in under $1,000 ? That's great if it does.
> 
> ...


RE disc brakes, there are times you really benefit frm them, but if you don't need them, why bother? Go with the non disc type. Also, I was told that shipping wasn't included, but you can find out easily enough by calling customs. My hub was about 2100 when new, but I opted for that due to the low AUD (at the time) and warranteee. The starbike price is really good. Good luck with it.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

satanas said:


> I'm hopefully only a few months away from getting a Surly Troll which is going to have a Rohloff hub. It will be used mainly for remote area touring, largely on poorly surfaced or unsurfaced roads in places like India, etc, but for some off-road riding too.
> 
> What I'm trying to figure out is just exactly which hub to get. Since I'd like to keep the costs down, it seems like starbike.com is the best place to order from; I've been looking for a while and it seems they're selling new hubs for less than used hubs are going for on eBay, especially once the German VAT is removed. Please post any cheaper sources!
> 
> ...


For use on the Surly Troll, I would get the TS EX or TS DB hub.

The threaded axle hubs are recommended for horizontal track mounts, you can get by with the CC (quick release) hubs, but it is difficult to get a decent quick-release to hold both the torque and chain tension. The TS is guaranteed to work.

Because the axle position changes a bit when you adjust chain tension in a track mount, the distance from the canti-mount to hub will change, so you will have to adjust your shifter cables every time. This can be avoided by using the external shifting box.

I would get the OEM-2 or after-market torque arm, as the OEM-1 torque arm (ie OEM hub) will likely damage the track mount - the torque will pry the mount open. The after-market torque arm (however clunky it looks) will probably work best with that frame. You can probably get the OEM-2 torque arm to work with a TS hub.

You can convert a non-disc hub to disc hub, but it is a lot cheaper to just get the disc hub in the first place. Since the DB version is not much more than the EX, it would be smarter to get it in case you want to sell it later.

You cannot convert a CC hub to a TS hub, and TS hubs are slightly heavier.

I have (and have had) the CC, CC-DB, and TS-DB hubs, and I have used all 3 torque arms, including the after-market SpeedBone. They have been mounted in standard dropouts, Rohloff specific dropouts, sliders, and track mounts. Don't under estimate the amount of torque that needs to be transfered to the frame in first gear.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Thanks everyone!

Re Oz customs: They won't tell you anything useful over the phone IME. I sent an email a while back asking a few questions annd got a one sentence answer [sigh]. My uderstanding based on what has happened to others is that cost of freight is NOT included when calculating the value for the threshold. However, if the value of goods goes over $1K then GST (and possibly duty, if applicable) is assessed on the total invoiced, including the freight. So, it pays to keep the total of goods comfortably under $1k.

Re CC or TS. Someone in the Troll thread (in the Surly forum) said the Surly Tuggnut stops any movement if Q/R hubs are used (which should remove any need to adjust cables after wheel changes, hopefully) plus Q/R has the advantage of not requiring a spanner to remove the wheel. Also, a Rohloff hub is expen$ive(!), and usng the Q/R version allows it to be secured with an anti-theft skewer, like a Pitlock. The Troll frame works with the OEM2 axle plate, according to Surly, so no torque arm is required.

While the DB hub isn't vastly more expensive by itself, the end cost for me would be considerably different, since it would be over the Oz GST-free threshold. So, I'd have to pay GST (and probably duty) on both the hub *and* the freight. When the extra cost of the DB hub is included this comes to something like $3-400... :-(


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## estutjaweh (Jan 3, 2008)

Pitlock and Pinhead also both produce security bolts for TS threaded axles now.

The OEM2 axleplate only really works with the Troll and Ogre (due to the support bolt position) if the wheel is fully inserted and an external chain-tensioner is used. The dropout material under the axle slot gets thinner the further you pull the wheel back... so to stop the torque 'Pac-man-ing' the dropout, you gotta choose your sprocket ratio really carefully to keep the wheel as far in as possible.

DONT FORGET TO ADJUST THE BOLT POSITION EVERY TIME YOU ADJUST CHAIN TENSION - This can be a very costly mistake to frame and cables if overlooked on designs like this).

Tugnut??? I think this can cause issues with the external gear mech and axleplate depending on where they are angled so be sure to check that first. I have no idea if this will be sufficient to hold the wheel in position. Sounds plausible though.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Good info, thanks.

So, if I'm understanding what has been said correctly:

1. Bits exist to stop either TS or CC hubs being nicked - but what tools are needed to remove TS if these are used, and sre they small/light?
2. OEM2 plate might work, or not, depending on wheel position
3. Some people think discs are needed and others don't - no surprises there...
4. Cable readjustment might be needed if internal shifter is used and wheel is removed and replaced (but I don't see why - surely wheel position will be close enough that it should shift if the chain tension is basically the same)

I think it's worthwhile for me to try the CC/TS OEM hub and OEM2 plate plus a Tuggnut and adjust from there if necessary. If it all works fine as is I'll have saved a few hundred $, and if not I won't really have spent any more in total; I think I'll pass on a rear disc in any case.


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## estutjaweh (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi to answer teh above questions:
1, tools are included with these security bits as each is unique like a key.
2, Yes
3, Personal Preference
4, An internal gear mech needs a stop for the housing. This is mounted fixed onto teh main frame. As you pull the wheel backwards to tension the chain, the distance between hub and this cable housing stop increases. This takes away the required slack in the system (identical behavior to tensioning brake cables) and thus the cable barrel adjusters at the housing stop must be adjusted to reinstate this required cable slack. Failure to do this may result in a very vague and undefined shift feeling.

Go with TS OEM2 or CC OEM2 + Tugnut first. If things don't work out, just buy a new chain and the chain tensioner, push the wheel fully into the dropout and all will be fine.


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## estutjaweh (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry, in addition to my last post:

If you want to avoid the constant readjustment of cables (as I mentioned in point #4), then get an external gear mech hub from the start. The article codes for this is either TS EX OEM2 or CC EX OEM2 (+ tugnut still).


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

The problem with the EX hub is that it would cost me a few hundred dollars more due to duty and tax. I've dealt with Sturmey-Archer hubs before so I should be able to deal with the Rohoff internal shifter...


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