# Colors!



## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

Oooookay. I've been saving this one up for a while. I am a guy, and we know what happens when guys try to guess what women are thinking.

I have a question for women who ride. It is not a new question. It is in fact a question I've seen answered for 15 years. Answered by guys, mostly speculating. A quick focus group tells us "girls like pink! And flowers!", but really, I'm not sure this applies to serious women cyclists. I have pages of reasons here why it might & might not, but what I and quite a few others in the sport would like to hear, is what you think. Actually, this is the second, more specific of two very similar questions, the first & probably more interesting, I'll save for later.

What sort of imagery (colours, print pattern) options do you like to see in women-specific componentry? Do you like the pink flowery feminine stuff, the more simplistic function-derived designs, or having the option of both?

It'd be helpful for those of us who'd like to focus on promoting the sport to women. Everyone's promoting the guys, and the continued imbalance is weird in a sport that should have equal opportunity to appeal. I hate to (mis?)use MTBR as market research, but it's pretty rare that this many serious mtbing women are in one place to ask.

Thanks for your opinions everyone!


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

i think having options is best. for myself, i would not want a pink bike but many women do. i tend to like the 'function derived' stuff. as for bike color, i like black or red best so black, silver, or gray components fit right in.

as for clothing, i buy only closeout items, so i end up with lots of solid colors, which is fine for me. i mean, i am getting sweaty and maybe crashing so why spend big bucks?

even off the bike i have more blue, white, and tan than other colors.

if you are going to sell stuff to women you *have to* think beyond pink. we women are all very different in color preferences. i noticed Bell and Giro had (low end) women specific helmets in pastel colors. my helmet? red and titanium colors. no pastel there.

variety is the spice of life!

Rita


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## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

I'm not the girly-girl type so I don't go for the flowers-pink-cute look, but I know lots of women that do. My style is more soft solid colors, blues & greens, maybe with some contrasting detailing, so I'd go for the "simplistic function-derived designs". 
That said, feminine is not always flowery, it can done with elegent geometric designs, small classic prints, textured fabrics and details like whimsical zipper pulls.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

oldbroad said:


> it can done with elegent geometric designs, small classic prints, textured fabrics and details like whimsical zipper pulls.


Exactly. You won't find me in floral patterns, but a good cut that emphasizes a feminine shape while still being functional (read: tailored coverage, not half shirt sleaze) is nice.

I'll use Fox products as an example. Very cute, but not always well fitted or functional. They must not have any athletic women to get measurements. The openings to the arms are always restricting (hey, just cause I have rigid ss arms doesn't mean I'm "burly"), and the clothing always runs rather small. It's almost as though they only want the perfect girls to wear their clothing. Some of their stuff makes me feel downright fat! And this is coming from a women who wears anything from a size 1 to a size 4, depending on the brand. As far as functional, I have an issue with their cute but useless baggies, pathetic chamois. They can put a decent one in the men's, but to put lesser in the women's is saying, "Women don't really ride, they are just eye candy on the trail."

Some of the brands that do a good job of form and function are SheBeest, Sugoi, and Nema. SheBeest for when I'm feeling feisty and feminine, Sugoi for the solid middle of the road well built stuff, and Nema when I want to blend in and not be seen.


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

I've got to say, I'm not a big fan of pink (never have been). My bike is ano red, and I'm slowly mixing some yellow bits in with that just to make it a bit different from all the other red/black/silver bikes out there (so far I have yellow grips and pedals... getting tyres soon to match). If I were to get my bike repainted, or get a bike that came in a range of frame colours, it'd be blue all the way. The way my bike looks is quite an important factor, though I wouldn't choose looks over functionality.

As far as clothing goes, I want cool stuff like the guys have. There's no way I'd been seen dead in one of those skimpy little sports tops... I'm not in bad shape, but from a practical point of view, I don't fancy getting a nice big road rash all over my midriff and shoulders next time I take a dive off the bike. Neither do I fancy having to slather on half a gallon of sun block every time I go outside. I'm fair skinned and burn very easily, so I try to stick with regular short sleeve jerseys, especially since I live in the desert. 

What I'd like to see are more jerseys which are women's cut, but designed like men's jerseys. I want stuff with gargoyles and dragons on, or fierce looking tigers, and vibrant colours that aren't necessarily pink or lilac. The bottom line is that probably 8 times out of 10 I prefer what I see in the men's bike clothing section. If the size small is small enough and fits okay I buy men's, because frankly, it's cooler.

- Jen.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

*pink has its time & place...*



flyingsuperpetis said:


> Oooookay. I've been saving this one up for a while. I am a guy, and we know what happens when guys try to guess what women are thinking.
> 
> I have a question for women who ride. It is not a new question. It is in fact a question I've seen answered for 15 years. Answered by guys, mostly speculating. A quick focus group tells us "girls like pink! And flowers!", but really, I'm not sure this applies to serious women cyclists. I have pages of reasons here why it might & might not, but what I and quite a few others in the sport would like to hear, is what you think. Actually, this is the second, more specific of two very similar questions, the first & probably more interesting, I'll save for later.
> 
> ...


like on singlespeeds.... 










and i think some women really like it. but for the most part i can't stand it. i'm not much into cutesy-flowery-girly stuff and don't really want to see it on my bike components or clothing.

gunmetal grey, or black, or sliver ,or ti-colored, or clear coat carbon fiber colored are the colors i want to see on components. that stuff just gets trashed with use & abuse anyway.

paint colors on bikes are personal taste. aside from my ss the rest of my bikes are blue or blue/silver combo with red accents. if i was allowed to choose any paint scheme i wanted i'd probably go with something loud & sparkly like orange or bass boat sparkle green. or something borderline-tacky like that. 

for clothes i remain baffled why companies insist on making women's clothing in pastel colors. do they think we don't want to be as visible as men on the road? (yes, i like getting hit by cars that don't see me in my pretty pale green and peach flowered matching jersey, shorts, and socks......oh, wait, no i don't!) or that we really like the look of pale yellow flowers with permanent mud speckle stains (even oxyclean can't get rid of the stains left behind by bright orange carolina clay)? i want bright, primary colors. designs and patterns are fine but don't do them in wimpy pastels like we're a bunch of 6 yr olds dressed up to go to Easter services.

also, what is up with the cropped jerseys that barely make it down to your waist? i don't want a bunch of skin exposed as i go flying OTB into the dirt! i'm not out there to show off my belly button (i don't even like to do that in regular clothes!). i'm out there to ride a bike and i want to know that my skin will be protected by my clothes.

i agree with screampint about the chamois. designers really need to pay attention to the chamois. take some of that research on men's chamois and use it to improve women's as well. we get numb too and it's not going to do anything to improve the sex life of our significant others who ride if we're numb and they aren't! 

oh, and don't even get me started about sizing. EXTRA SMALL should mean that it fits extra small people. not people who wish they were extra small. check out the comparisons of sizing (i think Terry's website or one of the women's clothing sites has a comparison) for shorts. if a company makes an XS short for example it can range in size from a 28-30" waist all the way up to a 34"! do you see something wrong with this? i do. make shorts and jerseys that fit women who ride. not women who stand around trying to look good.

choice is always good. like i said, there are women out there that really like the super girly stuff, but there are also a lot of women out there that would perfer function over fashion.

/end rant/

rt (sorry, got a little carried away there  )


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*fit is more important*

I hate hate hate baggy jerseys and short shorts. Women's athletic wear should fit athletic women, yes? And should cover the parts that are most likely to get scraped up. I also totally agree with rt on the silliness of light, easily stained mountain bike clothes. It's like white shirts for toddlers, dumb! <-- Hey, that's the women's perspective part kicking in, eh? 
As to bike frames and parts, I personally dig black bikes and black or grey parts. My road bike is clear coat carbon fiber, my Turner is black. Mebbe that's just me, though.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

I"m with these gals in that pink is not the be all to end all of feminine fashion, unless you are 6 years old. My bike is blue and I have a collection of blue, closeout/sale items and custom made items that is a real mishsegosh of color and design.

I do like to do the pink/bright/flower/color coordinated thing on rare occasion, but only as a joke ( example, sock guy "hottie" socks, or weasring matching sock, shorts and jersey when I go lift served DH)) . Sort of the "the more annoyed you are the more fun it is for me" type of thing.

I'm with the majority here in that fit and function and generally appealing things are more important than "feminine". We need things cut for women, not just men's stuff cut down. And, we want the same things guys wear. And, the same kind of selection. I get so sick of catalogs with 5 pages of mens' clothing, and one for women, with just two pastel and one flower jersey to choose from.


> I'll use Fox products as an example. Very cute, but not always well fitted or functional. They must not have any athletic women to get measurements. The openings to the arms are always restricting (hey, just cause I have rigid ss arms doesn't mean I'm "burly"), and the clothing always runs rather small. It's almost as though they only want the perfect girls to wear their clothing. Some of their stuff makes me feel downright fat! And this is coming from a women who wears anything from a size 1 to a size 4, depending on the brand. As far as functional, I have an issue with their cute but useless baggies, pathetic chamois. They can put a decent one in the men's, but to put lesser in the women's is saying, "Women don't really ride, they are just eye candy on the trail."


I don't know what company you are researching for, but get a decent fit model!!!! And remember that there are a lot of women out there who are not stick people. We have muscular athletic bodies. There are a lot of women out there who ride who are not small who want nice bike things too without having to buy men's.

Fabric, don't be chintzy and make sure you are using appropriate fabrics for the end design use. Example... my pal just bought a long sleeved DH style FOX jersey, ($79) and the fabric snags just by breathing on it..! You'd think FOX would know better assuming that their DH style clothing is supposed be to worn over armor with velcro on i and worn out in the woods. Bonehead design moves like this do not generate product loyalty or repeat purchases.

oops, you got me going, sorry. 

formica


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

*rt* said:


> i want bright, primary colors.


Ditto. I forgot to add that to my original post. No pastels for me, my 6 year old daughter wears enough for everyone in the women's lounge.


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## porterjack (May 10, 2004)

formica said:


> I do like to do the pink/bright/flower/color coordinated thing on rare occasion, but only as a joke ( example, sock guy "hottie" socks, or weasring matching sock, shorts and jersey when I go lift served DH)) . Sort of the "the more annoyed you are the more fun it is for me" type of thing.
> 
> formica


Yeah...I don't own anything pink..all my riding clothes are black or match with black  my road bike is orange, my FS is gray, and my HT is royal blue. However, I bought a pair of pink armwarmers sort of as a joke a few months ago..I have yet to wear them..mostly because they don't match anything I have..but then again does matching really matter? i've been known to go out in a purple shirt/jersey, black shorts, and red socks..when laundry is low


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## SheFly (Aug 11, 2004)

formica said:


> I don't know what company you are researching for, but get a decent fit model!!!! And remember that there are a lot of women out there who are not stick people. We have muscular athletic bodies. There are a lot of women out there who ride who are not small who want nice bike things too without having to buy men's.
> formica


Ther are alos those of us out there who haven't fit into a size 2 since we were 10! I had an interesting converstaion with the TNL crew last night about this - most of them are under 5'5" - I, however, am 5'10", and wear a [gasp] size 10. Please don't forget about us either....

A few years ago, I went to Interbike and went to EVERY clothing manufacturer on the floor wanting to know why they didn't make baggies that were LONG - everything I'd seen to that point seemed to be for women who wanted to score men, not dirt.... I want baggy selections like the men have! Their response was that there wasn't enough of a market to justify making more of a selection for women...... ARGH!

Oh - and I was NEVER a girlie girl either - until this year! Lately every sweater that I've purchased has been pink - my mother was in shock! But I don't NECESSARILY want my bike clothes to be pastely colors - I like the bright primary colors suggestion, with intersting geometric shapes.....

SheFly


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

No pink or flowers here, except on funny socks.

All my bottoms are black or darkgrey or red. All my tops are mosly dark colors as well. I hate mud stains.

Despite the risk of falls I do however prefer sleeveless jerseys when it's hot. No bare midriff here though.

NO SKORTS.

My bikes are black, silver, metallic blue, turquoise, and red.

Finally, tailored fit is key and make those damn jerseys long enough in back!

PS: I must admit though that I enjoy pink, flowers, or skorts on gals who kick arse, like DH champs or super fast racer gals. Because its kind of a *neener neener*. I however am in neither of those categories.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

SheFly said:


> A few years ago, I went to Interbike and went to EVERY clothing manufacturer on the floor wanting to know why they didn't make baggies that were LONG - everything I'd seen to that point seemed to be for women who wanted to score men, not dirt.... I want baggy selections like the men have! *Their response was that there wasn't enough of a market to justify making more of a selection for women*...... ARGH!


LOL!! i got the exact same response when i asked people in the bike business why they didn't make stuff for women in general and why not for small people. their response was 'oh, there isn't enough of a market.' BS!! i told them 'if you make it, they will buy'. they basically told me to get lost. 

apparently there isn't a market unless you're a guy.  

rt


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## little b (Jan 7, 2004)

so many great replys already. i second (or third, or fourth) the comments about fit. I finally found a pair of gloves that fit me. they are baby blue (very quickly grey) and they were labelled as 'girls'. ahem. clothing should be available in true XS to true XL. one size does not fit all. in fact, one size doesn't even fit most.

i do like a bit of pink or red thrown in once in awhile, but generally prefer blue, orange or red. nice colours, as i would wear off the bike. and maybe a bit of flash once in awhile, to go with my handlebar streamers.


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

this thing about womens size bike clothes: i buy mens baggy shorts, for two reasons. one, thigh coverage(womens shorts are waaay too short, and the longer mens shorts have saved my skin on more than one occasion). two, sizing. if i were to order womens shorts i would have to buy an XL. what is up with that? i am a bit overweight(ok, ok, about 15lbs over)and only 5'3". also womens jerseys, XL, again. non-biking clothes i wear a medium top, and sometimes a small. we are athletes afterall which means we have more muscle and shape than runway models. sheesh, look at a few recent threads about sweets, we like to eat, too!

as for not being much of a market for womens clothes, heck, we are buying mens stuff and/or making our own clothes just to get something that fits. if a company makes good looking and well fitting clothes we will buy them(just remember women earn less money than men so make sure the price is right, too).

back to colors: living in a hot desert i wear lighter colored clothes during the hot season(March through October), on and off the bike. yes, they show dirt, but dark colors do not cut it for me when we have a low of 85F and the sun is shining. and i ride early, 6a.m. to 8:30 at the latest. during the cooler months i wear the darker stuff since it shows less dirt.

another $.02.

Rita


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## DH Diva (May 25, 2004)

Like it was mentioned before, variety is the spice of life. And I can't think of a better example then women's cycling clothes/apparal. I like both the girly stuff and the more serious/sporty looking stuff (ie the red and ti look, black, ect). It really just depends on what mood I'm in and what kind of riding I'm doing. 

When I race DH, everything is black/red/white. Those have been my team colors for six years so all my DH gear matches that, bike included, in one way or another. 

But, since I compete at DH, I take it very seriously. When I'm out doing other types of riding that I don't compete in, I tend to be a little sillier and have found that I'm more up for wearing different colors then my race kit. Half my XC wardrobe is the same as my DH kit. Black/Red/White, sharp, coordinated, business. The other half of my XC wardrobe is absolutely silly. I will admit it, I own the specialized Queen Cobra helmet with the retro flowers on it (and baby blue clipless shoes to match!!)!  I also have lots of flower socks, and even a couple retro flower print jerseys. Which look I go with really just depends on how I feel that day (or what's clean!). 

I guess what my point is, is that it doesn't have to be one or the other. I think having both options available is going to satisfy the most women.


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

Your opinions, honest & unfiltered, are exactly what I'm looking for. Every reply contains great points and all your typing is greatly appreciated. Not only by us here, but by a number of other MFG's who are also keeping a close eye on this thread.

I see a few sorrys at the bottom of your posts. You have nothing to be sorry about. Women make up around 14% (+/-, depending on who you ask) of the market, and it's been this way for some time. Aside from a unwillingness on the part of manufacturers to reach out, there's no apparent reason for such an imbalance.

Mtbr is a great place to BS about a great many things, but this is a perfect example of how it can benefit people & the sport itself directly.

Thanks again! Looking forward to more comments.
Pete


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

*rt* said:


> LOL!! i got the exact same response when i asked people in the bike business why they didn't make stuff for women in general and why not for small people. their response was 'oh, there isn't enough of a market.' BS!! i told them 'if you make it, they will buy'. they basically told me to get lost.
> 
> apparently there isn't a market unless you're a guy.
> 
> rt


 right, not enough of market for women... how on earth have these companies managed to survive?
 Title 9
Wild Roses Techical Women's Clothing
Devi Outdoors 
Team Estrogen 
Isis Outdoors 
Shebeast


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

It used to be that I thought I would never have worn girly stuff in a million years. Until I started racing DH - I did my first races in a skort because I liked the juxtaposition of a cute skirt with flowers and armor. The more competent I feel at a sport, the more girly I've gotten (appearance wise). And one of the best female DH riders I've ever ridden with has a custom pink DH bike. Which is sweet!

Anyway, on to fit: I think it's just tough to get a single cut for women's gear that's going to fit everyone - we're all built a little different - ask us what brand/style of jeans fit and you'll probably get a different answer from everyone. I read the complaints about Fox gear - the weird thing is that their motocross pants fit my curves perfectly and I actually wore a smaller size than I expected to. Go figure. But I haven't had much luck with their MTB shorts. Though I typically just go for guys MX type shorts for DH for durability and protection. Or spandex or skorts for XC riding. I'm in love with Sugoi's technifine shorts, they're a little more low rise than others and sit right where they're comfortable. 

And like someone else said, there are times I want just good plain/serious looking gear that fits me. And other times I like girly looking stuff. I want, and will buy both, as long as they're good quality.


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## SheFly (Aug 11, 2004)

formica said:


> right, not enough of market for women... how on earth have these companies managed to survive?
> Title 9
> Wild Roses Techical Women's Clothing
> Devi Outdoors
> ...


I agree, Formica! It seemed that the folks I talked to thought that most women, however, were riding on the bike path looking for a date, vs getting dirty and sweaty on DH, XC, or BMX rides. I thought it was funny how they lumped all women into that category.....

On the flip side, I do know some women who ride with full makeup...... 

SheFly


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## Marcia (Jan 8, 2005)

Pink, NOT

My 13 year old daughter on the other hand would love a pink bike. Though she's getting into riding sh'es ALL girl, unlike her mom grew up a Tom boy and I guess I'll always be one. I'm pretty black and white though I do get a little radical now and then with some brights. Have one bike that's Sosbee Green and jersey to match. I'm more into function and price. Your just going to get dirty anyway. Won't pay the big bucks for the Primal or Pearl.


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## Gnarlene (Jan 13, 2004)

*Pink!*

Helmets:
While I don't have any pink in my closet, I do own a children's pink helmet with flowers (that's my helmet in the avatar). Of course I also own a children's purple helmet with silver flames. Kids helmets are just so fun! And they fit me better than adult-sized helmets. And they run about $30 a piece!

I agree with some of the other women about the juxtoposition of the muddy, bloody, dusty-dirty rider; who's just cleaned a seriously technical section of trail, and who's wearing something foo-foo girly. I have also found that many people (men and women) seem to think that women that mountain bike, especially those that take it seriously, couldn't possibly be "real women". Nothing could be farther from the truth! And I choose to wear pink and flowers to help demonstrate that point.

There's also the idea that if you do ride a mountain bike, and you are a woman, you can't possibly be serious and strong and capable. Again, nothing could be further from the truth. And a couple of years ago, when I was riding better, it was darn fun to chick some guy that indicated that I couldn't ride something "because it was too hard for a girl". Again, for me doing so with some sort of girly foo-foo helmet or something on was just more fun.

I let the helmet be my expression of foo-foo girliness. Everything else I buy based on price and functionality. (I also crash on, get mud & dirt on, and generally trash other pieces of clothing.)

Jerseys:
I buy off the sale rack. I have a few jerseys with flowers and whatnot, but mostly they are solid colors. I agree with the other women here, the jersey needs to have reasonable coverage. I also agree with AZTortoise in that light colors and fabrics are preferrable for desert riding, especially in the summer. I also like bright colors for winter or forest riding. (Bright colors come out better in pictures, and I am a poseur.)

In truth, a lot of time the jersey is covered with a jacket or a camelback or whatever. So I just can't see placing a lot of emphasis on jersey styles.

Shorts:
Shorts have to be functional. If you are a serious cyclist, you really need decent shorts. Will somebody PLEASE make a decent baggy for women! Please! I'll pick on Nema, here, because I have both Men's and Women's shorts from them. I have a pair of men's Nema shorts that are wonderfully functional and fit me like a potato sack. So, when Nema came out with a women's line of baggies, I threw down the bucks and bought a pair. Oh, they fit wonderfully, I mean they look really good. But if I try to get off the back of the bike, I find that the shorts are far too short. Chaffing on the inner thigh is not a good feeling.

That goes for all those short short styles as well. They are fine if you want to look good riding to the coffee shop, or if you are lucky enough to have thin thighs. But I have the typical middle aged woman's big (fat) thigh syndrome, and I need a bit of protection -- and that means length!

Bikes & Components:
Components are components. I can't see why anyone would put much energy into colorizing components. Yea, I've seen it done, but it doesn't make sense to me.

As far as bike color goes, I have 2 blue bikes, a yellow bike, and a black bike. My next bike will hopefully be a metallic cranberry sort of a color. I don't see myself getting a pink bike.

I did see a baby blue bike with daisies once. That was cool. And the woman that rode it was a very strong SS'er. That was cool too. Again, that juxtoposition thing -- strength and femininity: they really do go together, it's just that not everybody realizes it.


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## Neen (Sep 27, 2004)

I am another one of those non-flowery, non-pastel liking, non-pink wearing women. We need clothes in a large variety like mens (every catalog is all men's, with a page or maybe 2 of women's stuff. and it's all very froo-froo looking). Shorts need to be longer, I'm trying to ride, not pick up a guy, or show off! Shirts are okay, but could be a bit longer. There's such a huge selection for men and just a very small one for women. As a matter of fact, the last bike I bought (Specialized Epic), I ended up at the shop I buy my shorts at, because they have women's clothes! In stock! Gasp! Things like that will keep me coming back. And I don't generally shop at places that don't have any women's clothes. Hey, we're out there too!!


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## wooglin (Jan 6, 2004)

Gnarlene said:


> I did see a baby blue bike with daisies once. That was cool. And the woman that rode it was a very strong SS'er. That was cool too. Again, that juxtoposition thing -- strength and femininity: they really do go together, it's just that not everybody realizes it.


This one?

<img src ="https://juniper-solutions.com/coconinocycles/images/DeniseFlowerFront2.jpg">

Its just too pretty not to post.


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## Mangoes (Mar 16, 2004)

*Some comments from down under (yes we do have women mtb'rs here)*

If you make some great women's stuff think of sending it down our way.

I am not a pink girly type either. Basically a tom boy from childhood my mother always dressed me in red (redhead) and my sister in yellow (blonde) so shades of red and orange are my favourites. I also like various shades of green and purples.

My teenage daughter on the other hand is going through a totally pink phase. I think she thinks she is Elle Wood from the Legally Blonde movies. Rather odd as she has dark hair.

As the other girls mentioned, function and form play an important part.

For example, when I purchased my current bike (Specialized Stumpjumper F/S Women's specific) I wanted one with hydro disc brakes that I saw on the online catalogue. The guy said the only model available was with v-brakes as apparently in Australia there is no market for a high end bike with disc brakes. Saying this they only import about 5 women's models per year anyway.

Excuse me. We are talking about a bike that is full XT and they say we don't want good brakes  I have arthritis in my left hand so find that the hydros allow me good control without pain.

I agree totally on the cut of clothes.

Our sizes run differently here but the one thing I find is that the armholes are really tiny. Being over 40 my arms don't have that toned look that they had when I was younger so I tend to find that most "women's" jerseys just about cut my circulation off. It I go to the next size up say large instead of medium, then the thing flaps around like a potato sack.

I like the comments about the stick women. A lot of girls getting into riding here are over 30 and many are over 40. For some reason the designers forget that once women reach a certain age, no matter how hard they try, they just don't cut the supermodel shape.

One comment from a friend on an email list. Think about girls with large chests. Whilst not wanting pink, these girls still like to look feminine but over here they find it almost impossible to buy a jersey to fit a 40 or 44 inch bustline that doesn't look like what some XXL guy would choose.

Colours and design wise, I don't like the roadie look with all the sponsor logos, just some nice designs, say geometric or patterned in practical colours are my choice.

Shorts. Apart from one pair of women's nix, all my other shorts are unisex or men's. Particularly the baggies which I bought from the US on ebay. Clothes here are really expensive and a good pair of baggies will be over $100 AUD so I tend to hunt down what I can find in the way of bargains online or make my own gear.

Another thing on shorts. The leg grippers always seem to be really tight for me. I have stumpy legs. My husband on the other hand has skinny legs. We both wear the same size shorts as our waist sizes are the same but his fit loosely and mine, well, grab in all the wrong places.

Something not mentioned, but you can see some comments in other threads, is, backpacks.

There are a few people out there making packs for women but the range is particularly limited.

When l found a good fitting pack it lacked the features that I wanted, so I had to compromise and get the poorer fitting pack that did what I want. Believe it or not, women use their packs the same as guys, they are not just urban accessories.

I am an organizer and like everything to have a place, on the other hand my husband is more than happy just to chuck everything in so I look for a bag with lots of compartments. The placing of the sternum strap and waist strap is another problem for women. I realise it is hard to move the waist strap but at least make the sternum strap removable/adjustable so we can fit it more comfortably. Also many women don't need quite as long a drinking hose as the guys. I have one bladder where the hose hangs down and touches my leg. OK for hot days but when it is cooler I don't like that drippy feeling. I know, I can cut it off, but women like to buy stuff ready to go.

Just a few cents worth from OZ.


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## Gnarlene (Jan 13, 2004)

*yes!*



wooglin said:


> This one?
> 
> <img src ="https://juniper-solutions.com/coconinocycles/images/DeniseFlowerFront2.jpg">
> 
> Its just too pretty not to post.


Yep, that's the bike. And you are right, it is too pretty not to post. Thanks!

(And yes, you can call me girly, but I totally dig that paint job!)


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

little b said:


> so many great replys already. i second (or third, or fourth) the comments about fit. I finally found a pair of gloves that fit me. they are baby blue (very quickly grey) and they were labelled as 'girls'. ahem. clothing should be available in true XS to true XL. one size does not fit all. in fact, one size doesn't even fit most.


little b - are these the Fox women's specific gloves? I tried on a pair of those (I think they are actually Moto gloves) and they fit great... but I refuse to buy baby blue gloves on principal alone. Why can't the MFG's make a high quality BLACK full fingered glove in Woman's sizes that is comparable in form, fashion, comfort and protection to all the men's styles! It is one of the most frustrating things in the world to me.

Back to the main topic: I don't have too many problems finding tops, I like most of what Fox offers in their women's line along with Pearl Izumi road tops and some Sugoi stuff. I don't wear baggies so I have no problems finding S or XS lycra (There's a much better market for women's roadie gear than MTB)

Call me boring, but clean simple stuff appeals to me... here are examples:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=8575
http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=11004
http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=10662
http://shop.foxracing.com/ecomm/Pro...Jerseys&proNumber=23090&imgName=23090098F.jpg
http://shop.foxracing.com/ecomm/Pro...Jerseys&proNumber=23086&imgName=23086218F.jpg
Ironically, Fox offers a total of two jersey choices for Women and 10 for men. A little frustrating...

This kind of stuff doesn't appeal to me at all.. way to busy:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=11486
http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=9283
and this one is just plain UGLY: (my apologies to anyone who owns this )
http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=7991


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Gnarlene said:


> Yep, that's the bike. And you are right, it is too pretty not to post. Thanks!
> 
> (And yes, you can call me girly, but I totally dig that paint job!)


That paint job is AWESOME.

By the way so is your avatar! It makes me laugh every time I see it.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Anyone catch this in the OP?



> Actually, this is the second, more specific of two very similar questions, the first & probably more interesting, I'll save for later.


hey, don't keep us in suspense!!!! ( unless you are going to ask for a date...)

~formica


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

I want a DH bike with that paint!


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

*yes and no*

I was never "girlie" to begin with, so I like well-tailored clothing in muted colors that flatters my female form, but not necessarily clothes that flaunt the fact that I'm a girl on a bike. My thought is, girl on a bike, so what? We're just bikers.

But now and then, something girly gets my attention and I love it. Gnarly's floral bike helmet, for example- fantastic! Those jerseys Formica churns out? Gorgeous! My titanium spoke bracelet? Love it!

The "Dirt Princess" or "Biker Chick" jerseys that Primal Wear makes? Not my style. But I'm partial to the Tiffany lamp patterned jersey and the Queen of Hearts (that's been discontinued  )

So there's no escaping certain aspects of our inner girlie-girl, no matter how much we tend to stifle her. 'cause she's one tough cookie after all.


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## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Fit is more of a concern to me than the colors but I will definitely take a fun looking non-pink/pastel jersey over a frilly girly one. I have a really hard time finding clothes that fit b/c everything is made two sizes smaller than regular clothes, especially Fox and PI! Geez, they must use a 10 yr old for their models!!  I love Nema's looks but haven't had a chance to see how they fit and I've had good luck with REI and Zoic in the shorts category.

I would love to see more guy type designs on women's jersey's and I am seeing much interesting stuff being carried by Team Estrogen but again, the fit is so snug I can't bear the elastic around the waist stuff. I HATE elastic on my waist!! Give me drawstrings!!

Believe it or not manufacturers, there are still some of us heavier people that love to ride just as much as the thinner people. Even before my child bearing years, I was an atheltically built size 10 and I doubt that many of the shorts would have fit well even then. 

Modesty and protection are important aspects of clothing. Even when I was in excellent shape, I would have never considering exposing my midriff or ride with my shoulders exposed for fear of chewing them up on a fall.

Surprisingly, as much as I dislike pastels/girly colors, my favorite jersey right now is this one b/c of the comfortable fit and excellent fabric. Its a Louis Garneau soft rib jersey and I'd love it even more if it had come in a navy blue or burgundy.


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

kpicha said:


> I love Nema's looks but haven't had a chance to see how they fit and I've had good luck with REI and Zoic in the shorts category.


You should check out some of the stuff by Sugoi, they seem to offer more of the looser, less fitted style tops for women.


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## Gnarlene (Jan 13, 2004)

*thanks!*



Impy said:


> That paint job is AWESOME.
> 
> By the way so is your avatar! It makes me laugh every time I see it.


Thank you! Someday I will write a "How I got my Avatar" post...it's very MTB related!


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## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Gnarlene said:


> Thank you! Someday I will write a "How I got my Avatar" post...it's very MTB related!


 Go for it! I'm all ears!


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

formica said:


> Anyone catch this in the OP?
> 
> hey, don't keep us in suspense!!!! ( unless you are going to ask for a date...)
> 
> ~formica


 Hehe, no no, don't worry, I don't date.

I think the other broader topic will warrant a new thread or two. I still have some ground work to do though. In the mean time, this thread is great. I really appreciate all the thought you all are putting into this.


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## Mtnbikenmama (Apr 1, 2004)

*Bike specific clothing sucks....*

I think it all sucks, male or female specific. It's overpriced and often times poorly made, uncomfortable, and looks ridiculous. The longer I'm in the sport I am finding myself moving over to other sorces to buy riding clothing. I like Duluth trading T-shirts and long sleeve T-shirts made of the material that is used in the military. It's light weight, wicks moisture and is comfortable, and reasonably priced. . I got their rain jacket too- works great, and I think if the weather keeps up I'm going to get their rain pants. The only thing I'm still stuck with is the riding shorts- can't give up that chamios (sp?)  So I get those on sale. Cover them up with some baggies from Marshalls and waaalaaa. Sorry MFR's but you bring it on yourselves. Give us a well built , comfortable reasonable priced product that doesn't look like Barbie wear and you'll have plenty of customers. I'm 5'9" and will always be an "Athena" cause I'm muscular and will never be under 130 sooo... by the looks of the board here and at the Womens Only Weekend in Big Bear I'm not the only one. There are a lot of us out there riding our bikes in our husbands jersies and shorts, (NOT AT THE SAME TIME) market, yeah I'd say there is a market for a MFR who cares.

Adios
see ya on the trails,
donna


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

*oh no, here she goes again....*

What I am curious about is the profit margins. I understand direct costs ( actual manufacturing costs) Overhead, Profit, throw in a little for marketing and R & D ( new fabric technologies) but come on, $120 bucks for some lycra shorts with a hi-tech chamois? Did they have to invest millions into those chamois and are now passing the cost onto comsumers? What, pray tell, are "they" doing there that warrants charging so much? I'm curious as heck to know whether that stuff is getting keystoned by the dealers ( 100% markup of if the wholesale cost) What truly warrant charging those kind of prices, allowing for a reasonable profit? Is what the market will bear? Part of the problem as I see it is that the bike industry is charging a lot ( at least to women!) for things that don't fit right, You just know that the actual folks that are sewing up these things in sweatshops are not the ones keeping the cost up.

Which brings me to point two..... Are there any "socially responsible" bike clothing manufacturers out there? Ones who are not using piecework, overseas sweatshops to put things to gether? How about manufacturing cooperatives where the workers have more control over their condition, and are able to make more money for their homes, families and villages? Anyone out there paying a living wage? I don't know about you, but if I knew that a good percentage of my purchase prices was really helping a community somewhere, that would influence my purchase. The example that comes to mind is buying Free Trade Coffee.... they've eliminated the middle man, the growers get much more of the profit that they used to. OK, so I'm not sure how that would figure into a large scale clothing manufacturing operation, but you get my drift. If you knew that when you purchased your $70 jersey, that the person who made it was acutally getting paid a living wage instead of a few cents a day, and that this would enable them to send their kids to school etc or get medical care, would that make a difference for you?

I'm not talking about, if you buy this thing, we'll contribute 50¢ to ( your favorite charity here) for a month. I'm talking making a real difference in the everyday lives of the people who make this stuff.

When in a remote, poor part of Mexico this spring, I was fortunate enough to encounter a women's cooperative selling clothing, the kinds of beautful things that you see at the nice tourists shops. However, these were them women who acutally made them. I can't tell you how good it felt to talk to the women who actually had made these things, and to know that my well spent tourist dollars were going right back to their community, and not into some middleman's pocket.

Logistics, feasability, yeah, yeah....

Even if a company is working hard at not off shoring or outsourcing thier production, that is something I want to know about. I know it's more costly to keep production local, withing the same nation even, but if it means keeping people employed...

ok, I'll put the soapbox away now...

formica


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## Mtnbikenmama (Apr 1, 2004)

*Oh Colors!*

Sorry about the rant, I guess I have a prob with bike clothing, anyway I like red, and green (not necessarily together unless is Christmas). Always black for the shorts. I stay away from colors that will show the dirt etc. Don't get me wrong , pink is great, but not on my riding clothes. Besides my face is pink enough puffing up those hills 

time to hit the dirt,
Adios
donna


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## Mtnbikenmama (Apr 1, 2004)

*Ps*

Formica That's the only reason I would plunk down 70 bucks on a jersey. I'd rather put it into the bike. You go girl.

donna


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## deanna (Jan 15, 2004)

it would be nice to be able to wear women's clothing... 

stick woman here, and i'm over 30. i've always been skinny (think distance runner). arm holes on women's jerseys fit fine... there's a catch though, i'm 6' tall. women's jerseys are too short--even a lot of the XL ones, by then they're a tent and i can wrap them around twice. so i have to buy men's jerseys regardless if i prefer the colors or patters. Shebeast used to make a longer jersey called a "swing" jersey and while it didn't fit quite right, it did cover my navel. can't find them anymore.

long legs too, even men's tights run short... they making them w/ the assumption that all men are 5'9" and shorter?? i've got to get a large, and then they're not so tight. women's tights fit almost like knickers. Terry makes a short w/ a 10" inseam... so that helps. all my shorts are terry actually. they fit well and the chamois is comfy. 

as for bike colors... i've got a red one (breezer), a grey one (trek roadie), a green&black (steel seven) one, and a HOT PINK (titus switchblade talas) one. why pink? because i could. it's my fun bike, hard to take oneself seriously on a pink bike.


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## trailwoman (Nov 15, 2004)

Agree with much of what has been posted already -- I don't want to look like an easter egg when I ride nor am I trying to score guys. Do I like to show off the body cycling has given me (or, rather, I suppose, that I have _earned_ through the pain/fun of cycling?) Yes, I suppose I do -- but in a fun/athletic way, not in a vavavavoom way. I don't want men driving by (if I'm on my road bike) to think, "Oh, I want to do her" but I don't mind inspiring a woman driving by to think "Hey, I could look like her -- I'm going to get out on my bike!" So I love to see sporty cycling clothing that doesn't make me look like Barbie or, worse, her younger cousin Skipper.  I'm about to hit the 4-0 mark and I'm at a point in my life where I don't mind dropping some cash on my bike and my cycling clothing but please give me something I want to buy! Orange, royal blue, yellow, black, green -- love! Geometric designs, pink, light blue, etc. -- not so crazy about.

Example -- two cycling things I love -- the "chain" bracelet from Terry and the "Allez" leather necklace (from Velowear, maybe? -- it was a gift) -- simple, strong statements. Let me see that kind of thinking in a pair of socks or a jersey and you're getting my $$.

And thanks for asking.


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## Mtnbikenmama (Apr 1, 2004)

*Check out this site*

This post got me to surfing the net to see what else is out there besides the usual, check out http://harlotwear.com , there are also some other interesting sites at dirtworld.com


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

My wife usually bases her decision on what to wear on what's clean, not what's pretty.
When purchasing, she wants it to fit well FIRST, then look good after that.
Her new favorite shorts are some Oakley's that are almost knee length. She's bought 2 and never takes them off.... (almost)
She's got a pair of pink Oakley shorts too..rarely wears them...
Oh yes, RT.. my wife is 5'8 and wears a small...haha!

We did a 12 Hour downhill race and she was the girl on our team. I forced her almost at gunpoint to wear this jersey, it's an Oakly jersey.I wanted people to know it was a girl in there.. It was awesome.. all over the mountain you'd hear people talking about "pink girl passing me..." or "did you see that girl ripping?" She hasn't worn it since though...









Come to think of it...this is a pretty girly outfit...pink shorts..baby blue top...oh well...she's tough enough to wear it..i guess...









Lots of the time though..the outfit is determined by the race...#32...lycra anyone?


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## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Ooo, I like those Oakley shorts! Where did she get them from? (If you remember  )


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

kpicha said:


> Ooo, I like those Oakley shorts! Where did she get them from? (If you remember  )


Supergo???


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

On more of a 'fit' note, why is there no women's specific armour? Women have different enough body geometry to warrant companies making armour that actually fits us right. I hate to say it, but I suspect it has something to do with the fact that companies think we're never going to do anything hardcore enough to need it. Either that or they think we can just get away with using a size small and everything will be fine. Personally I think women are more likely to want armour... lets face it, guys think scabs are cool, but I think they're ugly and a bit of a nuisance.

Okay, so I think pink armour with flowers on it would be a bit over the top, but how about some that is designed to fit smaller people? I recently bought a set of small Rockgardn Airframe knee/shin and elbow/forearm armour to boost my confidence a bit when I started out on clipless pedals. I bought them based on the great reviews they got, and the fact that they're supposed to be light, and cooler than neoprene. They are light, they are cool, but I'm going to have to attempt some serious fabric butchery to make them fit properly  

- Jen.


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

mahgnillig said:


> On more of a 'fit' note, why is there no women's specific armour?
> - Jen.


Because the amount of women who ride critical conditions and want armour is so small that there is no demand.

Consider wearing a set of knee warmers under the pads, that helps with fit, even on my pads.


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

Padre said:


> Because the amount of women who ride critical conditions and want armour is so small that there is no demand.


I dunno... I think that if they made it, plenty of people would buy it. As far as I can make out from reading these forums, a lot of women own armour. We don't necessarily wear it all the time, but put it on for tricky sections where we might need a bit of a confidence boost. All these women who buy armour are buying products designed for men because there is no alternative, and if there is a choice between wearing ill-fitting armour or getting hurt, I'd choose the armour any day. It's hard to judge whether there is a market for something when everyone is just making do with what they can get.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

wooglin said:


> This one?
> 
> <img src ="https://juniper-solutions.com/coconinocycles/images/DeniseFlowerFront2.jpg">
> 
> Its just too pretty not to post.


i love it!!!

i want one. 

rt


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## VT Mtbkr (Jan 19, 2004)

I tend to get all my riding gear from Target. I love the designs of their workout clothes and and they seem to hold up pretty well. I can't bring myself to pay $40-$50 for a riding jersey when I can get the same materials and fit from Target for $15. When it comes to riding shorts I love Primal Wear's shorts with the designs on the side panels. I can usually find them on closeout online at a decent price.


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