# Energy levels falling earlier in rides than usual?



## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Normally if I ride anything up to 2 hours I won't eat until I'm home or back to the car. If I know I'm riding 2.5-3+ hours I'll eat at the 1-1.5 hour mark and every 45 mins thereafter and that has worked well for me.

A couple months ago I got a power meter on my road bike and did an 8 week training program of twice a week intervals. My 20 minute power levels rose by 9.5% in that period. My training book said that you will peak in performance around the 8 week mark then start to fall flat.

So... do you think I'm falling flat or does my increased power mean I am burning up glycogen stores at a faster rate and I now need to eat earlier in the ride?


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## aussiebullet (Nov 24, 2006)

Riding harder WILL burn more fuel so if your not eating more fuel you'll empty the glycogen tank more quickly and more often, basic maths really.

There might be other reasons but this is the one that gets me every time, my 5-6hr rides have me burning 600cal - 900cal p/hr so I'll burn north of 3500cal on a long ride if I've been doing 2 x 20min intervals or slightly longer sweet spot intervals earlier in the week and don't keep up the food intake bad things happen, both on the bike & at work etc.
Basicly I'll eat 300 - 400cal p/hr on the bike when doing longer than ~2hrs and ~10g of carbs p/kg of body weight per day training or not.

YMMV


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

The odd thing is that my perceived exertion level is like 6/10 now when it was 9/10 before for the same speed. So it feels like I'm just out having fun instead of working out, but I'm starting to gas out a lot sooner.

What do you eat to get 400 calories per hour? The honey stinger gels I have only have 100 calories I think. Eating 4 per our would get expensive haha. I usually eat my first one at the 1-1.5 hour mark and every 45 mins after that if I'm going to be riding 2.5-3+ hours.


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## aussiebullet (Nov 24, 2006)

Mostly dates and home made energy slice/cake cut into ~ 200cal - 250cal pieces and eat one evey 30 - 40 mins also mix in a banana or 3 for longer rides and sometimes sport drinks but prefer to eat real food and drink plain water.


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## aussiebullet (Nov 24, 2006)

Alias530 said:


> The odd thing is that my perceived exertion level is like 6/10 now when it was 9/10 before for the same speed. So it feels like I'm just out having fun instead of working out, but I'm starting to gas out a lot sooner.


Should also mention your probably fitter now so riding at a higher pace feels easier, thats what is supposed to happen when you get fitter...... it's a good thing BTW, 
but that doesn't mean your burning less fuel when it feels easier, the exact opposite is true your burning more fuel, you can ride harder for longer so long as you keep the fuel going in.
My slices cost me about $2 for over 7'000 cals, that's what 70 gels? that's why I don't bother with them too expensive, just flour, sugar, water and add anything you like to spice them up.

EDIT: You don't have to eat 400cal/hr! thats the upper limit for me on longer rides at a lower but still solid pace. Some people can only handle 
200 - 300cal/hr, if all I ate was gels and drinks at 400cal/hr I'd get bloated and sick in the stomach, that's why I prefer to eat cals drink water.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I just took a look at the SRM on my road bike. I've put in 24hrs on the road bike this month, and burned 18,000+ kj. That's 750kj/hr. It's slightly lower on the MTB, from memory, but I can't remember how much.

I'm only 145lbs. I have to eat once an hour, or I'll hit the wall quite quickly. At your size, you can store more kJ of glycogen in your muscles, but you'll also burn it faster, in theory, if you're producing more power.


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## biscut (Sep 11, 2015)

Sorry to interject, what are you using to measure output? And is it accurate? All new beginnings for me here. I'd like to have soemthing to monitor me for hikes and bikes. 

Also, I have had a few really long day tip hikes in the WHite Mts. NH. Rougher ones and long. I tried gel's but found banana actually gave me more of a boost. Not sure why. I' still looking for the big boost!!


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

biscut said:


> Sorry to interject, what are you using to measure output? And is it accurate? All new beginnings for me here. I'd like to have soemthing to monitor me for hikes and bikes.
> 
> Also, I have had a few really long day tip hikes in the WHite Mts. NH. Rougher ones and long. I tried gel's but found banana actually gave me more of a boost. Not sure why. I' still looking for the big boost!!


I got a power meter a few months ago so I'm just comparing perceived exertion.

I rarely have the energy to ride as hard as I want, when last summer I could ride until I was gasping for breath all the time during points of rides 4 days in a row.

It seems like power output would take less out of me, since it's a lower percentage of my capability. Like when I started lifting weights I was benching less than 200lbs but years later I could bench 400lbs and feel less sore/fatigue the next day. And I could do 200lbs all day long, because it was a smaller percentage of my capability.


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## Spec44 (Aug 17, 2013)

Stop thinking about perceived exertion...it's confusing the facts. The amount of energy (or calories) your muscles use to lift 400 lbs is alot more than they use to lift 200 lbs. To put it simply, when you've added/built muscle, you have increased the number of cells expending energy, so the same 200# will feel easier, but you're expending the same energy (possibly more), requiring the same calories, just spread out over more muscle cells/fibers.

ETA: you will realize some gains with improved technique, but I was trying to keep the explanation simple.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

It's just all I have to go by... I have 3 bikes and only one has a power meter. A year ago none of them had one. Last summer I would FLOG myself every time I rode until I was crawling back to the car, trying to get to the point I could ride and not feel so fatigued. Now I'm at that point and riding at the same pace or a little faster and it doesn't feel challenging but the next day I'm dead the moment I walk out the door, no energy.

So let's put it to numbers... let's say last summer I rode a road bike loop at 20mph avg on Saturday and Sunday. Now I might do 21mph on Saturday but only 18mph on Sunday. I guess what I expected to happen when I got faster was to be able to do 21mph on Saturday and Sunday instead of 20mph both days... but really I'm now just capable of borrowing energy from the next day to do 21mph on Saturday but I'm worse off on Sunday... hopefully that makes sense (those numbers are made up btw, just trying to make a point  )


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## Bail_Monkey (May 8, 2007)

If your carbed up before the ride, I'd just take a bite from a breakfast bar after 1.5hrs or have a bottle of a cycling carb/electrolyte drink to keep your energy levels up. If your ride is 2hrs, you can probably get by with a banana.


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