# Forget the Pain, Can you AFFORD an Injury?



## HamDog (Sep 4, 2009)

A couple of months ago, I ate it on a single track and went tumbling down a small hill only to be stopped by some rough plants. Two pieces of stick went into my ear (not the drum, but the sides). I couldn't see the injury, but it doesn't help when your buddy looks at it and says "ewwwh, dude, you need to go to the emergency room". Watered it down quickly and put a piece of gauze on it (ya, that seemingly useless first aid kit did come it handy), taped it down to my ear, and finished my ride.

Went to the emergency room right afterwards. They cleaned it out, got 4 stitches, and a tetnus shot. Took about 30 minutes (excluding 30 minute emergency room wait.) I do have medical insurance, but with a $5,000 deductible. So I knew I'd be paying for this.

Month and half later, here comes the bill: 

Emergency Room Bill: $2,875!!! But since I had insurance and the hospital was part of my insurance network, I got a big discount and now only have to pay $1,200.

Doctors Bill (always billed separately from hospital bill): $868!!! But again, since I had insurance and used a network doctor (I didn't chose him, he came with the emergency room), I only have to pay $128. Wow, what a huge discount.

So overall, I had to pay $1,328 to get 4 stitches. Insurance didn't pay a penny due to my $5K deductible, but the discount for having insurance was HUGE! I knew emergency room would be expensive. I realistically thought this would set me back maybe $300-500. But I really was shocked at the discounted price of $1,328. Seems amazingly high still. But I really pity the person who goes in without any insurance has gets billed almost $4K for a very simple injury that's fixed with 4 stitches.

That $1,328 could have bought me lots of XTR or X0 parts! Heck, even a new full suspension bike which may have given me more control so I wouldn't have crashed in the first place!:madman: 

Since I got the bill, I'm riding alot more careful. I take less risks. I bike slower. No, I'm not worried about injuries, but about the damn bill. :madmax: I mean if a small injury can cost like this, I'd hate to see what a major injury would cost.

On the positive side, I have now fullfilled $1,328 of my $5,000 deductible, so the most I'll have to pay for any injuries for the rest of the year is $3,672. What a great thing to have in the back of your head while mountain biking! :eekster:


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

A couple years ago, I went to jump off a log but had my front tire slip off prematurely. I landed on my hands and face and I broke my hand, cut my lip badly and lost three teeth.

I live in San Jose, CA so everything is inflated just like the housing prices. I'm fully insured medical and dental with no deductibles.

The price was:
Helicopter and ambulance- $25,000 - my part was $2500
Hospital overnight and surgery - $80,000 my part was $2000
Dental was $6000 - my part was $5000.

Why I had to pay $9500, I'm not so sure. After having full coverage for 20 years on good tech jobs and never been to the hospital, this experience was a RUDE awakening.

fc


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## derockus (Mar 27, 2009)

I mangled my leg with a pedal last summer and insurance saved my ass. I have Federal BC/BS.

Total billed to BC/BS: $31,374.66
Total paid by BC/BS: $8,438.17
Out-of-pocket: $1,836.80

That includes ER visit, two different out-patient surgeries (anethesia included), Wound V.A.C. rental (only covered at 70%), and at least a dozen doctor visits and follow-ups.

The biggest chunk was for that medical equipment. Otherwise my co-pays for ER, surgery, and doctor visits were "cheap". I would've rather bought a new bike though.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

I am going through this right now.......broke my legat the ankle on Jan. 2nd. Went to ER, had 2 xrays taken, blood pressure checked, got a splint to my thigh, 2 crutches and spent a total of 4 minutes with the ER Doc. Cost was around $6000. 

That does not include the cost associated with Ortho. Surgeon office visits, splints, xrays, Pre-Op tests, surgery, cast, walking boot and office visits.

Billing is still coming in. I do have insurance and am responsible for 20%. Fortunately, we have suplimental insurance to cover our out of pocket responsibility.

However, this does nothing for the wages I have not earned since New Years.....I am self employed.


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## JoeST765 (Feb 8, 2010)

Damn instead of 4little stitches & a 1300 bill you could have bought a 2.00 dollar tube of super glue & a couple sterry strips & gotten the same results. Couldn't tell you how many times I've patched myself up like this & never gotten one single infection & most times no scares left over either. Broken bone or a huge chunk of flesh hanging off I'll stop in & see a Doc. If I think it's deserving of only a few good stitches a good cleaning & some super glue all the way.


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## jsg (May 26, 2005)

I took a bad tumble in September: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=555006

ER visit and 2 days in the hospital was about $12,000, I paid $75.

3 follow up MD visits, paid $30 for each.

Follow up MRI billed at about $2500, I paid nothing.

I have great insurance.


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## Dr Feelygood ! (Jun 16, 2006)

Wow !

This thread has been a real eye opener for me .

I`ve been in A&E (UK ER) a few times with various injuries related to mountain biking.

I also currently work IN my local A&E dept.

The OPs injuries were (thankfully) very easy to fix, but the cost incurred seems out of all proportion ,even with the discounts!

I can clearly see why your President is trying to extend insured health care.

I cannot imagine how it must feel to ride WITHOUT any insurance :eekster:


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## FireDog46 (Jan 13, 2004)

Dr Feelygood ! said:


> I can clearly see why your President is trying to extend insured health care.
> 
> I cannot imagine how it must feel to ride WITHOUT any insurance :eekster:


Lose your job...lose your benefits.
Take out your frustrations by riding.
Have an accident and you're SOL.
I live in Canada.
Our system's not perfect and has it's problems.
But a serious accident isn't going to bankrupt you.
Illness requiring a long term drug protocol is a different story.

I wonder what this would have cost in the USA.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1452527&highlight=post1452527


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

Two Days ago my wife broke her Tibia (open fracture) and got a chopper ride off LC mesa.

She had surgery (Ti rod inserted to stablize tibia and a total of four pins) and spent a night in the hostpital with IV antibiotics.

Helicopter ride was free.
ER Co-pay was $150
Doctor(s) 100% covered after $100 co-pay
Food we have to pay for...oh well, she'd have to eat at home and the food didn't suck. 

We have a very good medical plan that we pay $1200 a month (for two of us) for. Seems like a bargin right about now. This little escapade will end up costing us about $400 - $500 out of pocket and we can live with that.

For the OP... Urgent Care is waaaay cheaper than an ER. It's waaay faster for minor to moderate injuries because usually you don't have to wait for a few dozen uninsured illegals using the ER as their pimary care providor.


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## FireDog46 (Jan 13, 2004)

STT GUY said:


> We have a very good medical plan that we pay $1200 a month (for two of us) for. Seems like a bargin right about now. This little escapade will end up costing us about $400 - $500 out of pocket and we can live with that.


Listen to you what you are saying! $1,200.00 a month for medical insurance.
The USofA needs a major workover.
How can someone in a low wage job afford what you are paying.
It's about time you yanks got your priorities sorted out.


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## [email protected] (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm glad i've got the NHS over here in the UK to rely on....


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

My house payment isn't even $1200 a month. I had good insurance. Went to a new job so I could go back to school...now I have none. Needless to say I ride carefully.


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

FireDog46 said:


> Listen to you what you are saying! $1,200.00 a month for medical insurance.
> The USofA needs a major workover.
> How can someone in a low wage job afford what you are paying.
> It's about time you yanks got your priorities sorted out.


A oerson in a low wage job could not afford what we do.

Well..... as a percentage of our income that figure above isn't putting me in the poor house and I think medical care should be a progressively priced system. A couple making $60k combined would not be expected to pay nearly $15,000 per year. However, as one who CAN afford to pay for a premium plan with very few limitations I should not be prevented from purchasing (I actually call it investing because my wife and I are worth every penny of that figure...) such coverage.

Lets see what I get for my money and compare it to wherever you are located:

I ask a friend to toss me a cold one (Diet Coke) I miss with my hand and catch it with my face. Walk into the Urgent Care, 30 minutes later I get six stitches and 90 minutes later I am driving back to the house. Total cost $75 co-pay

Few years back I injured my shoulder... I went directly to a specialist (no BS referal...no primary care middleman crap) of my choosing. Just so happened that it was the same guy that treats the Red Wings and Tigers in the Detroit area.. needless to say I followed his advice and treatment plan and my shoulder is sweet. Total cost $10 per office visit x 4.

Broke a collarbone... pretty bad break. Again I went to the ER and then the next day to a specialist who deals exclusively with these types of injuries. No referal crap from a primary care roadblocker.. straight to the person who could help me. This got me A) the best care B) saved me many hours of needless wasted time seeing the "lower rungs" of the care ladder.

I took a spill on my motorcycle while on-track. Seemed ok, but later in the week I had some pain. So I call up my ortho (again, this Doc is my choice, not assgned to me by some hack in an office) and he says, can ya be here in an hour? He checks me out and ask if I have had an MRI on my back within the last ten years? No, was the answer. I think we should take a look and at least have a baseline for going forward. 30 minutes later and without leaving his facility I am in the latest GE MRI machine and 30 minutes later my doc and I are in his offoce going over the results..AND I have a copy of the CD. Try THAT in Canada, the UK, etc..etc...

I have an ear infection and a ruptured ear drum (this was two weeks ago). I call at 9AM and at 1PM I am in an ENT's office getting exceptional medical care from a specialist, not some PA looking up symptoms on the internet. No offence to the PA's out there who do this but it's like playing cards.. the PA is two-pair and the ENT is a full house Aces over Kings.. which hand would YOU rather bet your hearing on?

Do I like the fact that I invest $1200/mo on health insurance? Ask me last Wednesday and I would have said "not so much" ask me again Today and it is a very worthwhile investment.


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

You foreigners..... what is your tax rate. Add it ALL up.

The USof A enjoys nearly the lowest personal income tax rate of any industrialized country in world. Total federal state and local taxes in the United States average 24.2% of our gross domestic product, ranking among the lowest in the world, with only Mexico at 19.5% with a lower tax rate.(check out thier social service and health care system....seems to me like we get one hell of a lot for that extra 5%) Along with the higher taxes, the difference between the U.S. and some of the other industrialized countries are increased social services, such as pensions and health-care funding.

You see, here in the good old USofA we allow individuals to do things like buy a fancy house and car and skip heath care. We allow stupidity where the UK and other countries figure you are all morons and therefore the government will decide what is best for you and your hard earned money.


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## mainlane (Mar 28, 2007)

The canadian and UK comparison VS USA health care system can't be compared directly, in terms of the amount people pay.

For instance, we pay for health care through taxes in Canada. We have higher taxes than the USA. 

When I go to the hospital I don't pay anything, I just give them my provincial health card. USA pays for each hospital visit, and is glad when they "only" have to pay a certain percentage, or co-pay fee.

I think that the amount people spend on health insurance in the USA is probably more than what we pay through taxes in Canada, but not by much.

But it seems in some cases it can be much for. For instance, the guy above who is paying $1200/month on a $60k combined household income to insure 2 people sounds excessive to me.I get $450/month deducted on my pay statement of $35k and not all of that is federal tax.

The benefit of Canada/UK system is you don't get denied treatment and won't become bankrupt because a trip was required to the hospital and you haven't payed your insurance premiums.


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## FireDog46 (Jan 13, 2004)

STT GUY said:


> A oerson in a low wage job could not afford what we do.
> 
> Well..... as a percentage of our income that figure above isn't putting me in the poor house and I think medical care should be a progressively priced system. A couple making $60k combined would not be expected to pay nearly $15,000 per year. However, as one who CAN afford to pay for a premium plan with very few limitations I should not be prevented from purchasing (I actually call it investing because my wife and I are worth every penny of that figure...) such coverage.
> ...............
> Do I like the fact that I invest $1200/mo on health insurance? Ask me last Wednesday and I would have said "not so much" ask me again Today and it is a very worthwhile investment.


I have no problem with a two tier system.
Those that can afford it buy the extra coverage and use private institutions.
Those that can't are covered by a national health service and use state institutions.
Actually a two tier system becomes a three tier system.
I use my own cash to supplement my national health coverage at private institutions,
or add a fourth tier...use health insurance to provide for the option...
private or public institutions.

The USA has a multi-tier system where the bottom has no coverage.
And some of the near-bottom are treated like dirt.
And those who thought they were in the middle to upper
find out real fast, how quick you can hit bottom and have no coverage.

I have an elderly friend, in his late 80's, who has a summer home in up-state NY.
He's already worked out a game plan and a budget if he needs expensive medical help.
The cost to be heli-lifted back to Toronto is a fraction of being treated in the States.

PS:
maybe F-88 should be reinstated
with some heavy moderation, of course


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

mainlane said:


> The canadian and UK comparison VS USA health care system can't be compared directly, in terms of the amount people pay.
> 
> For instance, we pay for health care through taxes in Canada. We have higher taxes than the USA.
> 
> ...


You misread my post.... I stated that a couple with a combined income of $60k could NOT be expected to pay $15k (or 25% of the household gross income) on healthcare.


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## FireDog46 (Jan 13, 2004)

STT GUY said:


> You foreigners..... what is your tax rate. Add it ALL up.
> 
> The USof A enjoys nearly the lowest personal income tax rate of any industrialized country in world. Total federal state and local taxes in the United States average 24.2% of our gross domestic product, ranking among the lowest in the world, with only Mexico at 19.5% with a lower tax rate.(check out thier social service and health care system....seems to me like we get one hell of a lot for that extra 5%) Along with the higher taxes, the difference between the U.S. and some of the other industrialized countries are increased social services, such as pensions and health-care funding.
> 
> You see, here in the good old USofA we allow individuals to do things like buy a fancy house and car and skip heath care. We allow stupidity where the UK and other countries figure you are all morons and therefore the government will decide what is best for you and your hard earned money.


Your country is trillions in debt.

Where do you think you are going to get the money to pay it back.
Wake up. Your taxes only have one way to go.

Thank god I live in Canada.

I'll take my higher taxes
strong banks, stable real estate market,
recovering economy, national health care,
even a blossoming dollar,

over the mess your country is in.

EDIT
even GM Canada is showing signs of new life.


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

FireDog46 said:


> Your country is trillions in debt.
> 
> Where do you think you are going to get the money to pay it back.
> Wake up. Your taxes only have one way to go.
> ...


Do you know the economic history of your own nation? You may be too young to remember the 80's and 90's but you guys were a friggin disaster.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

I've had several bad events and paid nothing, thanks to my insurance. I also have supplementary emergency insurance, which costs pennies, and they pay for airlifts and other accident events anywhere in the world. Airlift, search and rescue in the mountains? All paid for.

PS- having experienced the healthcare in some of the top countries of the world and their medical insurance systems, I'll choose the US any day. Some people don't know how good they have it, although some people have really shitty insurance coverage.


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## FireDog46 (Jan 13, 2004)

STT GUY said:


> Do you know the economic history of your own nation? You may be too young to remember the 80's and 90's but you guys were a friggin disaster.


Thank you for thinking me too young to remember the 80's or 90's.
Yes...we were a friggin disaster.
We were a disaster in the 70's with Trudeau and his silly ways.
But we changed. Deficits are short term. They have to be payed down.
That's why we have survived the global melt down in relative comfort.
That's why the rest of the world envies our banking system.
I have survived more recessions than I care to count.
And yes...we will be running a deficit again.
But our track history is...it gets payed down.

PS
i'm 64 in october


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

FireDog46 said:


> Thank you for thinking me too young to remember the 80's or 90's.
> Yes...we were a friggin disaster.
> We were a disaster in the 70's with Trudeau and his silly ways.
> But we changed. Deficits are short term. They have to be payed down.
> ...


Since about 95 or so you (Canadian's) buckled down and did not spend more than you made. IIRC 94 was you last year of a deficet was it not? Takes a big set to sell that to the public. It boggles my mind how we "down here" went from huge surpluses to where we are now in ten years.

While we are on the subject of taxes and such, I don't feel I am over taxed. I do however feel that my tax dollars are certainly not invested/spent wisely.


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## FireDog46 (Jan 13, 2004)

STT GUY said:


> Since about 95 or so you (Canadian's) buckled down and did not spend more than you made. IIRC 94 was you last year of a deficet was it not? Takes a big set to sell that to the public. It boggles my mind how we "down here" went from huge surpluses to where we are now in ten years.
> 
> While we are on the subject of taxes and such, I don't feel I am over taxed. I do however feel that my tax dollars are certainly not invested/spent wisely.


An honest country will recover.
But any country can/will make mistakes.
It takes strong leadership, and a populace that agrees, to effect change.
That's what happened here. 
Look what's happening in Greece.
I don't have all the answers. No one does.
But it's not rocket science to know you can't live on credit for ever.
The piper will demand he's payed.
YES...it was the mid '90's we got rid of our deficit.
DEFICIT in my country is a four letter word.
But one you have to live with occasionally.
Short term debt for long term gain.
NOT long term debt for short term gain.

I'm not being patriotic. I'm being pragmatic.
I'm glad I live in Canada.
Of course...I love our flag and our hockey team.


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## ebineezer (Sep 6, 2007)

I had ankle surgery about 4 months ago, if I didn't have insurance, it would have cost $40,000


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Dude, you have no clue how focked up the US medical system is :madman: I nipped the end of my finger off while there back in '07 and made the mistake os listening to the people around me, ended up with a bill for I think was $400 for them just washing it off with saline solution and putting a bandage on it - then the focking bandage stuck to the cut and I had to soak it for 3-4 hours to get it off :madman:


Dr Feelygood ! said:


> Wow !
> 
> This thread has been a real eye opener for me .
> 
> ...


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## HamDog (Sep 4, 2009)

As the OP, I'm glad to see most people here have terrific insurance plans. It's needed for our sport. STTGUY, our country does have the best health care in the world and you seem to have experienced that first had. However, I would guess over 95% of the population here can't afford the premiums you are paying for your Cadillac plan. 

In this country, you will do fine if you work for a company that offers health insurance. But it's tough to go on your own and afford the very high premiums. My best friend is a contractor and did great in the housing boom. But when things turned, he couldn't afford health insurance any more. He was paying $2,550 monthly premiums for his family (wife and 2 kids). Last year, his wife got a job at the local grocery store (Ralphs) getting paid $12/hour. She didn't do it for the money, but she did it for the health benefits given to her and the kids. Imagine that....getting a job just for health benefits.

If you are wealthy and can afford the premiums, the healthcare here is first rate. But again, the majority don't fall into that category unless they "work for the man". Kinda sad that this country was built on entrepreneurship which is dying slowly.

There is certainly a big problem when the doctor/hospital is willing to accept $500 for a procedure if an insurance company pays for it, but will charge $3,000 if an individual comes in with no insurance. I believe this in itself is the root of the problem here. And like usual, our government and politicians are dancing around and never addressing the real problem. I don't think Canada or anywhere is Europe has the "perfect" system in place either. But that doesn't mean their system can't be improved upon either. 

I don't like the Obama health plan as it leaves too much room for manipulation and problems. But I do like it because it shook up the industry. 

By creating this thread, I just wanted to open up some eyes of individuals to be careful and be aware of the potential costs of this hazardous hobby if you suffer an injury. Once again, I'm glad to see most people are covered.


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## FireDog46 (Jan 13, 2004)

HamDog said:


> ...
> I don't like the Obama health plan as it leaves too much room for manipulation and problems. But I do like it because it shook up the industry.
> 
> By creating this thread, I just wanted to open up some eyes of individuals to be careful and be aware of the potential costs of this hazardous hobby if you suffer an injury. Once again, I'm glad to see most people are covered.


Well said HamDog.:thumbsup:

There's nothing wrong with a universal basic level of service, 
available to all, funded by all, through our taxes.

If you can afford Cadillac extensions to that basic service, I have no problem.

Let me tell you a story.

In a post above I pointed to me having clavicle surgery.
I checked into the hospital Friday around noon.
Surgery was scheduled for late afternoon, early evening.
The day past into night and into the next day, Saturday.
Morning disappeared into afternoon.
They finally wheeled me to surgery.
I waited out in the hall for another hour.
All operating theaters were still busy.
Eventually one came free.
I asked...and was told...there had been a major car accident.
The night before.
All theaters were busy patching up the damaged.
The worst was a woman who needed major face reconstruction.
Something like 8 hours of surgery.
Finally one came free. So now it was my turn.
BUT
They had run out of gurneys to move me
from the bed into the operating room.
I looked at my orderlies (male nurses) and said:
prep me, walk beside me, I'll walk into the OR
catch me if I start to fall!
There was a collective chuckle....
AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED
I'll never forget climbing onto that OR bed, damn they're narrow
and helping the anaesthetist drape the tubes around me
to avoid fouling my surgeon's access to my shoulder.
My last thoughts, as I went under, were, can someone take this out of my hand.

MY POINT IN ALL THIS IS

start seeing things from the point of view of the medical practitioner
who truly believes in the hippocratic oath
if they don't have to worry about getting payed their oath prevails


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

i think its funny that the guy paying *fourteen thousand dollars a year* for insurance thinks hes getting a good deal.

no wonder we're so screwed up here. people dont know when they're getting bent over.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

One Pivot said:


> i think its funny that the guy paying *fourteen thousand dollars a year* for insurance thinks hes getting a good deal.
> 
> no wonder we're so screwed up here. people dont know when they're getting bent over.


on the other hand....

that $14k/year would sound like a bargain should you get diagnosed with a serious chronic illness or get into a horrible accident


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## FireDog46 (Jan 13, 2004)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> on the other hand....
> 
> that $14k/year would sound like a bargain should you get diagnosed with a serious chronic illness or get into a horrible accident


YES...BUT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States
doesn't leave much left over for food and other shyte.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

FireDog46 said:


> YES...BUT
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States
> doesn't leave much left over for food and other shyte.


Ahhh...Wikipedia....the great arbiter of all e-discussion


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

Just think your selves lucky right now that insurance companies don't see mountain biking as a dangerous sport. I dive as well as mountain bike and as diving is seen as a dangerous sport most insurance companies won't cover for injuries while diving. I have to take additional diving specific insurance. 

On another note, I crashed and cracked my skull 20 years ago while mountain biking at home on the UK. 10 hours in ER, 2 days in the hospital, tests, blood tests, many stitches, many return visits and I never saw a bill or had to pay a thing. 

The current health care system in the US needs a massive shake up and whether the recent changes will have a positive effect or not is yet to be seen, but at least it's a start.


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## tjchad (Aug 15, 2009)

The only time I never saw a bill after a doctor visit was when I was in the Navy... I have fairly decent insurance thru work and really feel for those who don't. I believe we do need some sort of universal HC here in the states. We're all paying for the people who don't have health care anyway - in the form of higher premiums from hospitals trying to recoup their costs thru us and the insurance companies. People with no health ins will go to an ER for the most basic of treatment because an ER will not turn them away for not being able to pay.


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## greasemeat (Oct 23, 2009)

Man this thread makes you think. Wondering if anyone recommends any particular insurance? I'm 34, ride often, in California. My sports med doc even mentioned Costco offering basic catastrophic coverage, but I'm not a member... what say you??


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## AusMTB Orienteer (Jun 30, 2006)

geez I'm glad i live in aus
national healthcare system meaning dr's visits are free, major drugs are subsidised. I take meds for a mental condition which work out to 30 bucks a month roughly, with out subsidty they are 3 times that price.
I can visit an ER anytime with an emergency and will be treated, at no cost
I also have top hospital cover on private health insurance, costs me about 80 dollars a month, this covers ambulance, private health care if I choose as well as co covering stuff like eyes, chiro podiatry, massage etc
I have been in for elective surgery and that was the only thing I have been out of pocket for.


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## CarolinaLL6 (Apr 12, 2010)

Retired military using Tricare Prime. Pay $57/qtr.

I had a severe gall bladder attack just over a year ago. I didn't know what it was because it had never happened before and took the ambulance in. All I know was I had a severe pain lower left of the sternum. Not classic anything, but to be safe and to rule out a heart attack they did everything to me. I saw the full game plan from Nuclear medicine with stress test, etc etc. Nothing conclusive so they kept me overnight and wanted another specialist to look at all the results.

Mid morning or so in strolls one of the chief surgeons telling me on one of the tests they found gall stones. Then he hit me with the sales pitch. Keep me another night then surgery first thing to remove the pesky thing. Other than hungry I felt fine. I declined his sales pitch and said I wanted to check out. He wasn't happy but to appease him I took his card and said I would take his offer under advisement.

Not had another attack in just over a year. Watch what I eat more carefully is all.

Anyway about two weeks later I got the bill from the hospital and Dr's..:eekster: was about $64k. I had to prop myself up while I was reading down the long laundry list of stuff and finally came to the bottom. After the dust settled all I owed was $80.

Oh and I think the ambulance was about the same, but after avoiding that bank acct-ender I didn't care.

So not all Insurance is an expensive disaster here in the US of A. :thumbsup:

...and to you canadians, brits and aussies, you guys have a nice place to visit but I prefer to live right here.


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## greasemeat (Oct 23, 2009)

I remember a big uproar when I was living in Sydney over ppl on 6+ month dentist wait lists living in constant pain, pulling their own teeth etc. Bad stuffs got to happen in most every country tho


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## AusMTB Orienteer (Jun 30, 2006)

yeah, dental over here isn't the best..they are talking about adding it to medicare, but thats all it is at the moment talk.


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## SLOboy (Apr 6, 2006)

The system here in the US is interesting. I just had an oh **** moment this week on the beach. Beach volleyball with friends ended with a dislocated shoulder and a trip to the ER in an ambulance. I'm 23, just graduated college, no insurance, unemployed...

First feelings when it happened were oh my lord this hurts and oh no, I have no insurance. I have had to apply to county aide in order to help with the bills and get discounts since I am a no income resident of the county. It makes me feel terrible knowing that I am going to be taking tax handouts but I would literally be bankrupted and in dept further than I could ever imagine or climb out of due to my youth. It would kill my credit, chances of getting jobs, housing. Everything could be destroyed by this single accident.

Still unsure how to feel about this predicament. But I know I cannot ever hope to pay for this on my own.


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## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

SLOboy said:


> The system here in the US is interesting. I just had an oh **** moment this week on the beach. Beach volleyball with friends ended with a dislocated shoulder and a trip to the ER in an ambulance. I'm 23, just graduated college, no insurance, unemployed...
> 
> First feelings when it happened were oh my lord this hurts and oh no, I have no insurance. I have had to apply to county aide in order to help with the bills and get discounts since I am a no income resident of the county. It makes me feel terrible knowing that I am going to be taking tax handouts but I would literally be bankrupted and in dept further than I could ever imagine or climb out of due to my youth. It would kill my credit, chances of getting jobs, housing. Everything could be destroyed by this single accident.
> 
> Still unsure how to feel about this predicament. But I know I cannot ever hope to pay for this on my own.


Catastrophic medical insurance when you're 23 is almost nothing. No excuse for anybody that young to not have some coverage, even if it comes with a high deductible.
You know that now, right?


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Broke my leg in 07.

ER visit out of network (no network hospitals within 70 miles)
6 days in hospital (two 3-day stays)
Surgery with plate in ankle, external fixator, then later two casts
4 weeks off work
Physical therapy, bands, etc

I carry short term disability in addition to my health care. The hospital copay was $250 for the surgery and 6 days inside. Doctor visits are $20/ea, meds were $20/ea. All in all I paid probably $500 for everything and suffered no hit to my income. I am fortunate with the benefits I have through my employer and the flexibility my employer provides.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

SLOboy said:


> The system here in the US is interesting. I just had an oh **** moment this week on the beach. Beach volleyball with friends ended with a dislocated shoulder and a trip to the ER in an ambulance. I'm 23, just graduated college, no insurance, unemployed...


Why did you take an ambulance to the ER for a dislocated shoulder? Were you guys too drunk to drive or something?


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## mumbles (Jul 22, 2006)

Search adventure advocates if you want some cheap accident insurance to cover you deductible. 

I went to the hospital for a broken wrist. They x-rayed it, wrapped it up, said there might be a bone chip but they didnt think broken, told me to go to a real doc on Monday. Charged me a bit over 2000.00. Paid the real doc a 30.00 copay and found out it was broken. Next time I will skip the emergency room and wait for the real doc. Though I am not sure he would have seen me so quick had I not already been to the emergency room.


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## SLOboy (Apr 6, 2006)

nachomc said:


> Why did you take an ambulance to the ER for a dislocated shoulder? Were you guys too drunk to drive or something?


Couldn't actually move without blinding pain by the time they checked me out on the beach and had me ready to move. We tried to sit me up but the way my arm was situated we couldn't get it stable enough for me to move without that nearly doubled me over.

Perhaps I just cannot take as much pain as I thought.

As for catastrophic insurance my family and I looked into it and it was more than we could afford. The quotes we received were 4 to 5k which were just too much.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

SLOboy said:


> Couldn't actually move without blinding pain by the time they checked me out on the beach and had me ready to move. We tried to sit me up but the way my arm was situated we couldn't get it stable enough for me to move without that nearly doubled me over.
> 
> Perhaps I just cannot take as much pain as I thought.


Some injuries just hurt more than others. I'm amazed and lucky that, when I broke my leg, the ONLY reason i knew I broke it was I heard it break when I fell. I crawled off the trail and had someone look over my leg. It was pretty obvious it was broken though by the way it was situated. For whatever reason, I had zero pain. It just felt gross when I could feel my leg move where the was no joint.

Now, when I got home from the hospital the first time, after three days, I was in a cast and no surgery had yet been performed. The morning was the worst, but also any time I got up from being seated was brutal. Basically, I stood up, all of the blood and fluid pooled in my leg (circulation was badly damaged due to tissue damage and such) and made my leg feel like it was going to burst. Literally. I still remember that feeling, ever morning, _dreading_ having to get out of bed and move to the front room of the house. Never again I hope.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

ouch some of these stories are scary.
Luckily I have decent insurance through work, my collarbone incident ended up costing me about $50 maybe? just the initial co-pays.
I don't know if I would be riding if I didn't have good insurance/no job, could be a recipe for disaster.


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## Ouroboros (Jan 20, 2008)

Temporarily between insurance plans. San Francisco has a small and very basic universal health care plan for city residents/taxpayers which I was eligible for. I'm recovering from an ankle fracture and all visits+equipment have costed me close to nothing. Not bad...


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## Mtn-Rider (May 21, 2010)

You can get fairly cheap insurance that can pay for itself in one serious accident. A very high deductible like $10K will lower your rates way down. That won't cover little accidents at all, but it will kick in if you're badly injured. Health insurance is the kind of thing that pays for itself the first time you need it, get whatever you can get, no matter how high your deductible has to be to afford it.

On the other hand, some still chose to ride the trails with no insurance. You can always adjust your riding to reduce the risks. It just means riding the slower, easier, less-exposed trails and have just a smuch fun. The way I see it, you always have to ride with whatever you have! I used to mtb after knee surgery rehab to get back in gear, insured of course. Go ride, that's what matters.


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## 2_WD (Jun 11, 2009)

HamDog said:


> What a great thing to have in the back of your head while mountain biking! :eekster:


Canada rocks!


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## hze (Jul 4, 2010)

If you want to ride you need insurance!


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## grahamj69 (Jul 10, 2010)

(please take this the right way) I have just read this thread and thought "How scary!":yikes: but interesting none the less.

Hands up if you guys in the USA are still arguing against a UK style Health Service?

If any of the above accidents had happened to me in the UK, I would have been picked up (by helicopter if necessary, or ambulance), checked out, operated on (if required) given a bed for as long as I needed it, medicated and sent home at a cost of zero GB£'s to me personally. Any follow up visits to my GP (general practioner) would be free, all we have to pay for is any prescriptions our GP feels we need, normally pain relief or in case of infection, antibiotics. These are £7.20 at the moment for usually a 7 to 14 day course (about $11.00).

Our dental service is only subsidised by the government, but is still a lot cheaper than going to a private dental practitioner

Even if I have medical insurance, immediately I will still be seen by the same Emergency Room doctors straight after an incident and operated on by the same surgeons. Of course, I will have to wait my turn if the injuries are not life threatening, but that's a small price to pay.

I had an RTA about 11 years ago on a motorcyle. Non fault and got comp for my injuries from the third parties insurance company for a broken collar bone. The person responsible (or their insurance) does not even have to pay the medical costs. This keeps our motoring insurance costs down.

Our NHS was set up soon after the second world war. I can't imagine our country without it.

For us, if you have medical insurance, you might jump the queue if you need a hip replacement, heart bypass, mole removed, or something that is not an emergency.

No matter if you have insurance or not, if you have an accident or are diagnosed with a life threatening illness or disease, you are seen very quickly.

OK, you may have to pay a little bit more in taxes, but this is spread over time and is a lot more bearable than getting hit with a bill for $5,000 for one visit to the ER........and yes I do appreciate that I might be paying to help someone who is unemployed at the time they need medical help, but that could be me one day.

I have a colleague from Milwaukee and I know this is a bit of an issue in the USA at the moment, so please take this post in the way it is intended. I am not saying we have a better system, only cheaper.

Keep upright and your faces out of the dirt and off of the tarmac and concrete if you can.

Cheers,

Graham

PS - Idon't have the spell-check loaded so please ignore my typos


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