# Dirt Jumper?



## Guest (May 5, 2006)

So what is the major different between a DJ and XC hardtail? Looks like the standover hieght in lower to protect your junk, but what else?


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## coma13 (Sep 3, 2005)

lower standover, like you mentioned, most importantly, burlier construction... xc hardtails are not built for repeated abuse like dj models are. Often times a DJ bike will have a shorter rear end to make it quicker and flickier.


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

Yep, def beefier frame and different geo. Along with the chainstay length you got tt and ha that play a huge difference.

I got me an 05 Kona Stuff that I love.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

DJ bikes have shorter rear ends, and often times shorter top tubes as well. Frame construction is completely different. Geometry was designed around it's intended purpose for both frames.


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## Guest (May 5, 2006)

So a DJ would be very good for long trail rides?


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

Ther are some DJ bikes that are trail capable... Transition, and 2 bikes from Evil can get the job done. not the best tool for it , but will work.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

CrazyEye said:


> So a DJ would be very good for long trail rides?


depends..most of the kona dj HT's are goood for it, same with the evil sovereign(sp) and a few others


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## racerzero (Jan 4, 2004)

CrazyEye said:


> So a DJ would be very good for long trail rides?


My back says no. Most DJs are really stiff because of the beefy construction. I've taken my bike on short trail rides. I would never take it on a long ride.


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## Vancemac (Apr 29, 2006)

On a related note, I am currently trying to figure which frame to go wtih on a new single speed project. Here is my dilema -- I want to do some jumping (and maybe even some urban, given that I'm in Los Angeles), AND I want to use it for some typical XC trail riding. 

So, which would you do:
Choice 1: go with the a traditional ss XC frame, like a Santa Cruz Chameleon, and maybe get one size smaller than I normally would.

Choice 2: go with a DJ (fetish fixation, mc rumble, banshee morphine), and maybe get 2 sets of wheels... 24 for jumping, 26 for trail rides (I have geared mtb for longer rides). 

Thanks for your help... it helped just to write it down.


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## apw411 (May 16, 2004)

Santa Cruz claims the Chameleon works really well for everything, including dirt jumping (in the bikes info on their website). I have never ridden one though... so I can't really comment on how well it works. 

Just for reference, I have a P1 set up as single speed, and it is not very fun to ride on trails. It's managable, but not that fun. Jumps really well though.


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

vance,, look into the evil soverign..


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

*Kona Cowan vs. Transition ToP*

I bought a Cowan to do exactly what you are talking about.

The Cowan was purchased as a "do everything" bike. I can get the saddle high enough and have the TT long enough for pretty efficient trail riding, but it still has a decent geometry for Urban and playing. That said, it's all about compromise unless you get two bikes.

I got a Transition ToP frame to see what I was missing for Urban riding. The difference is subtle, but significant. The ToP is smaller, (heavier), has shorter CS and is more fun for flicking around and bunnyhopping, it's more maneuverable (not that I rule, in fact I suck, but I can still tell the diff.) But it's not as much fun for trail riding as the Cowan.

Aside from minor geometry differences, you might want to use different tires for Urban than you do for XC, as well as (possibly) different fork travel. I run the Pike on my Cowan between 110mm and 140mm, but I just picked up a Sherman Firefly (TPC+ for only $100... woot!) set at 95mm for the Transition.

A good compromise for both might be a pair of Holy Rollers, which hook up pretty well on most Santa Monica trails, and an adjustable travel fork like a Pike.

Bottom line, I could have only one of these frames and I would never know the difference. But since I have tried both of them, I can definitely tell the difference and see that each one has it's advantages and drawbacks.

JMH


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## jake2119 (Feb 27, 2006)

I bought a GT Avalanche 1.0. It considered an all mountain hardtail, and I use it for everything from xc,urban, dj, and even some north shore. Let me tell you I have beat the crap out of this bike, and it keeps coming back for more.


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## namaSSte (Dec 19, 2003)

apw411 said:


> Santa Cruz claims the Chameleon works really well for everything, including dirt jumping (in the bikes info on their website). I have never ridden one though... so I can't really comment on how well it works.
> 
> Just for reference, I have a P1 set up as single speed, and it is not very fun to ride on trails. It's managable, but not that fun. Jumps really well though.


I had a Chameleon and absolutely loved it...jumped just fine in the dirt and park. I only sold it because I got a dj/park specific frame (fyi, its 24 only, stays are sub 15", and the ha is around 72 deg depending on the fork length you are running). Here's the Lizard gettin it done just so you know it does well in all environments...dirt jump, park at Rays, riding some xc out in Whizzla


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

namaSSte said:


> I only sold it because I got a dj/park specific frame (fyi, its 24 only, stays are sub 15", and the ha is around 72 deg depending on the fork length you are running).


What frame did you get? Sounds like one I would love to have, a TONIC.


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## namaSSte (Dec 19, 2003)

close, but I got a Union St. Molly Maguire. A couple of locals (and my riding buds) started the company about a year ago and even though I have an obvious bias....it really is one of the best riding bikes I've ever been on. very balanced and stable both on the ramps and in the air. I'd highly recommend taking a look at them if you are in the market...


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## bedheadben (Jan 30, 2006)

namaSSte said:


> close, but I got a Union St. Molly Maguire. A couple of locals (and my riding buds) started the company about a year ago and even though I have an obvious bias....it really is one of the best riding bikes I've ever been on. very balanced and stable both on the ramps and in the air. I'd highly recommend taking a look at them if you are in the market...


Cool, so are you guys successful enough to get them made at a factory, or do you guys make them yourselves?


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## namaSSte (Dec 19, 2003)

bedheadben said:


> Cool, so are you guys successful enough to get them made at a factory, or do you guys make them yourselves?


the first run of about 30 frames ( a few less actually) were built and welded by Maas (Terrible One) and the welds are immaculate. I think that is who they are using on run #2 as well.


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## dd13 (Oct 6, 2005)

banshee scirocco would work for pretty much anything.banshee even says they could be used with up to a 7"DC.


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