# Homemade sealant?



## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

This is on the 'wheels' board, too, but with my not getting any hits, and ya'll being such big proponents of tubeless over here, I thought I'd give it a try...

I know it's been discussed before, but I'd like to evaluate my options. I have some tubeless Slime, mold-builder latex, antifreeze, water, etc...what's a good mixture? Alcohol-based is attractive, as the latex will dry and seal much quicker (alcohol being significantly more evaporative than water)....right? Pros and cons of any other mixtures? Thanks!

Stefan


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Goop*

I have a whole long spiel about this on my website if you want to read in great detail. www.fuentesdesign.com/bikes/gotubeless.pdf

Just use slime (the non-tubeless kind is better, IMO) with a tiny splash of antifreeze to water it down just a tad. You can add latex and such, but alcohol is probably pointless. The whole idea is for the sealant to STAY WET. If it dries out, it can't seal punctures anymore. 
Here's the recipe I have used with some success (before I got lazy and started just using slime):
1 tbsp latex
1 tbsp slime (non-tubeless)
3 tbsp windshield washer fluid

If you do a poor job sealing your tires/getting set up (ie if you're still doing the DIY thing) then you should probably mix a tiny bit extra to make up for all the spillage. If this isn't enough sealant, make more. Pretty simple, really. You don't really even need to mix well, spinning the tire around will take care of that for you.

Good luck!

-Walt


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

*I use essentially the same brew but*



Walt said:


> Just use slime (the non-tubeless kind is better, IMO)
> -Walt


I prefer using the tubeless slime in the mixture, because the additional fibers seem to seal punctures better.


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## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

*Eh?*

Aren't windshield-wiper fluid and antifreeze alcohol-based? Or ammonia? One of the two, it's certainly something more evaporative than water, because....you _do_ want the sealant to dry. Ovbiously not in a large chunk at the bottom of an dormant tire, or even around the inside of the tire/rim interface, but the reason the sealant seals holes is because it dries. If it remained WET when sealing a puncture, it would squirt and squirt and squirt and squirt and so on. The idea is that it flows around in the tire reasonably freely, but dries when exposed to an environment conducive to evaporation (ie, at the point of puncture, with exposure to the atmosphere).

I am not a 'weight weenie', and do not care about the amount of sealant I've flowing around in my tube; I tend to use so much, in fact, that I can scoop it out from one tire to the next when changing, and have plenty to seal a brand new tire. In Stan's terms, I tend to use about 6-8 scoops, so sealant drying in the tire will NOT be an issue.

I might be direly confused about the nature of the thinner/carrier used (alcohol vs ammonia vs H2O, etc), but I think I understand how the sealant functions. So, what I still want to know is, Will a carrier with a lower evaporation point [than water] increase the efficacy of the sealant?

A bit off topic, but I've used non-UST tires well below 35 psi with Stan's. In fact, that's pretty much the only reason I run tubeless. I've had 2.25 Geax Sedonas down around 18 psi, with reasonable results, if you're interested in updating your [mostly very helpful] webpage.



Walt said:


> I have a whole long spiel about this on my website if you want to read in great detail. www.fuentesdesign.com/bikes/gotubeless.pdf
> 
> Just use slime (the non-tubeless kind is better, IMO) with a tiny splash of antifreeze to water it down just a tad. You can add latex and such, but alcohol is probably pointless. The whole idea is for the sealant to STAY WET. If it dries out, it can't seal punctures anymore.
> Here's the recipe I have used with some success (before I got lazy and started just using slime):
> ...


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

*Homemade brew*

After using pure latex and finding some trouble to seal, someone here gave me his recipe, sorry if don't remember who, to give credit to him.
What I use now is latex, specialized slime and windex.
The reason for the specialized slime is that it has bigger chunks than regular slime, reason for windex should be to lessen evaporation. I've been using this mixture for two months on regular Conti Explorers with success.
My .02


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## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

*Sweet!*

I figured I'd put something together with Slime (tubeless, with chunks), latex, and windex, as I ran out of windshield fluid (which is ethyl alcohol--not ammonia, for whoever's interested). I'm considering throwing in some silicone sealant, depending on what the vehicle/thinner is in it. If ammonia/windex will break down the silicone, it couldn't hurt as an additive. I'll post here when I get something that works well!


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## sodade (Jan 28, 2004)

*This thread highlights the main thing keeping me from tubeless*

I am totally not into the idea of spraying toxic sludge all over myself, my disc rotors and the woods when I do get a flat. I also want to have no hinderances when I flat. This tubeless goop stuff sounds like it is way more hassle than benefit. And I still don't get the weight savings angle - my tubes weigh 100gr - a rimstrip + toxic sludgegoop is probably more.

Man - I am starting to sound like an old coot or something...


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## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

*That's great, but...*

who really gives a s**t what you think? Start your own thread, or hijack one where people care about your negative opinion. Are you thinking of making some YesTubes converts here, or is it something else?

The point at which I spill 'toxic sludge' all over myself, I'll start trying to cast a distinctly negative light on tubeless tires, too. That day hasn't come, and I haven't _ever_ had even a minor flat with tubeless tires. I have tried both, however, and as such can bad mouth either I choose--it seems that's more than you can say for yourself, though.

Also, if you'd read this thread, you'd know that I'm not a weight weenie (I'm an SSer--I don't have to be), and don't really care about the weight savings. That said, work it out in your meager noggin that there might be other performance advantages that _do_ concern me--you might even find something that could improve your ride.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

*Benefits*



sodade said:


> I am totally not into the idea of spraying toxic sludge all over myself, my disc rotors and the woods when I do get a flat. I also want to have no hinderances when I flat. This tubeless goop stuff sounds like it is way more hassle than benefit. And I still don't get the weight savings angle - my tubes weigh 100gr - a rimstrip + toxic sludgegoop is probably more.
> 
> Man - I am starting to sound like an old coot or something...


I haven't had a flat since using "tubeless", the only thing is that the tire wouldn't hold air for a long time, but still I could finish my rides without spraying toxic waste all over the woods and without the use of the pump. The main benfits I feel are less rolling resistance with the same tires, better grip on climbs and a more supple ride, but all of this is subjective, I don't have scientific proof to this. I was very skeptical at first, now I do believe in the benefits of riding "tubeless" and I mean regular tires with sealant.


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

*Its really not that bad...*



sodade said:


> I am totally not into the idea of spraying toxic sludge all over myself, my disc rotors and the woods when I do get a flat. I also want to have no hinderances when I flat. This tubeless goop stuff sounds like it is way more hassle than benefit. And I still don't get the weight savings angle - my tubes weigh 100gr - a rimstrip + toxic sludgegoop is probably more.
> 
> Man - I am starting to sound like an old coot or something...


Maybe conditions where you ride are different than mine, i.e. no thorns and such, but I used to flat about every other ride from small punctures with tubes, regardless of what tire I used. Using the homemade tubeless (and thin walled tires), I've flatted only once in 6 months now, and that was a 1/2" slice from broken glass.

The weight savings is not really there compared to ultra thin lightweight tubes such as Maxxis Flyweights, etc, its about the same weight (roughly 90 g's per tire, depending on rimstrips, etc), but it greatly increases flat resistance and reduces rolling resistance. I'm not the rolling resistance guru, but I've heard numbers as much as 9 watts from people on this forum.

The toxic exposure when using the solution is probably less than washing your windows, checking your oil, or patching a tube. If you're careful, you can mount both tires while getting little if any solution on your skin, and when you flat, you may get a small amount on your bike or rotors, but it dries and rubs off with no more damage to the environment than throwing away a latex glove. There is usually a few tablespoons of solution in the tire when it comes time to change a tire due to wear, etc. If you are concerned about exposure, you can wear latex gloves and put the solution into a jar for proper disposal, or let it dry, peel off and throw away.

If I thought I was doing any real damage to the environment or myself by using it, I would stop using it. But 1 flat in 6 months with a very small amount of leakage did no more poisoning to myself or the environment than patching the tube would have. You are right, there are some hassles, but it beats changing or patching a tube on the trail every couple of rides, especially if you have discs. You have legitimate concerns, and I don't know if what I said will ease them any, but I have had a good experience with the system.


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## Patchito (Dec 31, 2003)

*Geez, you don't have to be such a d**k*



SDizzle said:


> who really gives a s**t what you think? Start your own thread, or hijack one where people care about your negative opinion. Are you thinking of making some YesTubes converts here, or is it something else?
> 
> The point at which I spill 'toxic sludge' all over myself, I'll start trying to cast a distinctly negative light on tubeless tires, too. That day hasn't come, and I haven't _ever_ had even a minor flat with tubeless tires. I have tried both, however, and as such can bad mouth either I choose--it seems that's more than you can say for yourself, though.
> 
> Also, if you'd read this thread, you'd know that I'm not a weight weenie (I'm an SSer--I don't have to be), and don't really care about the weight savings. That said, work it out in your meager noggin that there might be other performance advantages that _do_ concern me--you might even find something that could improve your ride.


I didn't find his post all that negative. Sure, He disparaged the idea of going tubeless, but at least his tone was basically good natured - even self-deprecating. The only negativity I detected was from your post. It was more than just negative, more like insulting. For you to call him negative is what pop shrinks refer to as "projection".

Lighten up Francis


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## Ron (Jan 13, 2004)

*More recipes...*

I've been searching around for homebrew sealant recipes and here's what I've found. Also every person stated their recipe was working fine.

1 TBSP Liquid Latex
1 TBSP Windshield Washer Fluid
1 TBSP Tubeless Slime
1/4 Cup Water

____________________________________________________________

8oz Liquid Latex
4oz Windshield Washer Fluid

____________________________________________________________

5 Parts Liquid Latex
5 Parts Water
3 or 4 parts Tubeless Slime

____________________________________________________________

2 TBSP Liquid Latex
1/2 Cup Water or Windsheild Washer Fluid or Windex
Add some Tubeless Slime

____________________________________________________________

3 Parts Liquid Latex
1 Part Tubeless Slime
8 Parts Water

____________________________________________________________

1 Part Liquid Latex
3 Parts Water

____________________________________________________________

1 TBSP Liquid Latex
1 TBSP Regular Non-Tubeless Slime
3 TBSP Windshield Washer Fluid

____________________________________________________________


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## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

*Update...*

OK, mixed and mounted, and everything seems fine. I used...

1x Slime (tubeless)
2x water
2x windex
2x latex (might increase this to 3x, or even 4)
big squeeze of silicone sealant

The mixture turned out looking fine, albeit a bit watery (like melted mint-chocolate-chip ice cream!). It plugged holes that plain Slime wouldn't take care of, but I can't say whether it works better than Stan's or not.

Sorry for blowing up earlier, but I've heard all the arguements against tubeless--mostly from people who've never tried it. I asked a very specific question, and got lots of non-answers. I waffle back and forth, and have _plenty_ of tubed experiences racked up--so, in the mean time, I'll take my chances with tubeless. Again, they've never failed me, and I ride in sharp-rocky, goat's head land, Boulder, CO, and can achieve ridiculously low pressures with tubeless that I could only dream of with tubes.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Boulder?*

Hell, I'm from that neck of the woods myself. Drop by the shop sometime and watch me weld up some 4130 monstrosities...that'll teach ya not to care about weight!

Glad the sealant worked. It ain't rocket science, though some people on the board try to make it that.

-Walt


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## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

*Where're ya from?*

What shop? Probably not Maverick, given your description...

If you're ever looking for a good time, I can be found on the local or SS board! Where's your favorite haunt?


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## jakedvm (Feb 5, 2004)

I am also from the area - up in Longmont - Have used Stan's system for 3 years now and love it. No flats while on the trails or races except for one that was a 3/4 inch tear. 
I use water and liquid latex - 12cc latex to 30cc water. I might have to try the slime though as I have to replace my mixture every 300 miles or so. I definately appreciate running lower pressures though.
Hope that helps.
Jake


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## sodade (Jan 28, 2004)

*easy there...*

Hey SDizzle - don't be a spaz. I was not trying to hijack your thread - the specifics of your discussion were of interest to me and I was not trying to be negative - just critically evaluating a new MTB trend. In fact, I have a schwanky new set of wheels with Stans rims and I am trying to decide wheather I will rip out the rimstrip or give this notubes thing a try.

While the weight saving is not really a plus, I am totally interested in low PSI with no pinch flats as I live in rocky New England. I am truly happy for you that you have had no flats - but I would rather have 10 flats to one if the one flat is a trailside nightmare. That was the point of my post - obviously I have hit on a thread full of people who really use the goop and I figured that I could get some perspective on the potential downsides that concern me. I apologize if I was going about soliciting feedback an a semi-obtuse sorta way that you took for "bad-mouthing"

--Sodade



SDizzle said:


> who really gives a s**t what you think? Start your own thread, or hijack one where people care about your negative opinion. Are you thinking of making some YesTubes converts here, or is it something else?
> 
> The point at which I spill 'toxic sludge' all over myself, I'll start trying to cast a distinctly negative light on tubeless tires, too. That day hasn't come, and I haven't _ever_ had even a minor flat with tubeless tires. I have tried both, however, and as such can bad mouth either I choose--it seems that's more than you can say for yourself, though.
> 
> Also, if you'd read this thread, you'd know that I'm not a weight weenie (I'm an SSer--I don't have to be), and don't really care about the weight savings. That said, work it out in your meager noggin that there might be other performance advantages that _do_ concern me--you might even find something that could improve your ride.


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## atbcrash (Jan 23, 2004)

*Why all the hassle.....*

Why not just use the Stans sealant. It saves you the hassle of making the homemade stuff and it works great. I have not had a flat since June of last year when I hit some glass and it tore the tire. It may cost a little bit more than the homemade stuff but it works great with little failure. I do not use the stans strip though. I use Eclipse tubeless which I found to be much better than stans.


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## sodade (Jan 28, 2004)

Yeah, thorns aren't a problem for me, but I dig the thought of low PSI without pinchflats as I live in rocky New England. I appreciate your response to my "toxicity" issue. I am more concerned with my personal environment than the global enviromental impact of my choices. i.e. I don't want to breathe toxic fumes, or spray them all over my precious bikes or the trail. 

I guess that I am wondering what the realities are in dealing with the "goop" 

Does the goop dry up inside your tire? If it is wet, does it spray out if you lose your bead seal or get a puncture that the goop doesn't seal? Once it is outside the tire does it dry? (I was inferring that from your post) Why would it be wet in the tire and then dry up outside the tire? Does the goop have anything to do with the tire bead staying sealed or is it just for sliming punctures up? Is the goop sticky or easy to remove? Especially off disc rotors. What do you have to go through when you want to change a tire?

I admit to being somewhat of a bike luddite - but I am changin' my ways - I finally figured out disc brakes (the weight of the Marta SLs sure helped with that!) and I am really trying to come to grips with this tubeless thing...


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## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

*I just got a case of Stan's...*

for less than $20. Latex: $8 at Michaels (flirt with sweet, young cashier, recieve 40% discount). Slime: $8 (avoid Performance at all costs--they're goddam pirates). Everything else, I had lying around the house. It will make a good 10 bottles of Stan's, which would run something like $150, right? Not only that, I'm pretty sure now that it works better--and if it doesn't, I can easily change my formula. It sealed Pythons (like a rubber sieve) that Stan's and plain Slime wouldn't do, and it did it in my sub-35* garage.


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## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

*Some answers...*

I owe you, so I'll be really thorough...

If toxicity were an issue, I'd stray far from tubeless. I don't like seeing trails (or any part of our natural environment) trashed in ways that could (or couldn't!) be prevented. That said, you use the windshield-washers on your car, right? That stuff has to go someplace, and it probably isn't into a waste-disposal unit in the trunk of your car. It evaporates, and in doing so contributes to global warming--but it's not as bad as actually _driving_ your car! That covers the most 'toxic' element of _my_ tubeless solution. (OK, so there's ammonia in the liquid latex that I can't prevent, or change--but you clean out your bathroom, right? Enough said.) I don't know what's in Slime, but it's probably not good for the environment. I use it in reasonably small amounts, though, and am comfortable that it _won't_ be spilled all over the trail regardless.

The goop will only 'dry' in an envirnment conducive to evaporation. The alcohol/water/ammonia vehicle has to evaporate and leave behind the latex solution to seal a hole, or to seal your bead. Your ketchup doesn't get all crusty in the bottle because there isn't enough air flow to take away the vinegar (or water, or whatever makes ketchup runny). Same goes for your tire--what's inside is in a sealed environment, and, except for small amounts (unless you've got a constant, nagging leak--which I've never suffered), can't evaporate because it can't _go anywhere._ That said, once it's exposed to an environment conducive to evaporation (ie, a pinhole leak, which is easily plugged, or along the bead), the latex takes it's natural, undiluted form--stretchy and impermeable. That's why it plugs leaks.

The goop that dries on he rimstrip and tire bead can be tough to get off, and largely depends on the tire. Some WTB 2.4 Motoraptors (see: I'm not a weight weenie!) I used for a while were a godawful b*tch to clean up, as were the rimstrips they were stuck to. I'm now running Pythons, and have fooled with them enough that nothing seems to be sticking at all. And before the Pythons were some Geax Sedonas (2.25) that cleaned up and came off more easily than anything I ever anticipate using. Some of it, I think, depends on the environment, too. Drier, dustier locales will cause the latex to solidify faster (though, despite what others have reported, I've never had it dry up in a chunk at the bottom of a tire, or even around the circumfrence), especially around the bead.

Changing tires involves some crude, sometimes complex, sometimes simple, combination of the above. Sometimes it's incredibly hard (rotating the WTBs, for instance), sometimes very easy (my Geax to Hutchinson switch)--like a tubed tire. Again, weather might have a lot to do with this!

I've never gotten disc rotors covered in goop, and it's not for lack or trying! I have, however, covered them in soapy water while mounting tires--just wipe them down with white gas (or your thinner of choice--white gas seems the least bad, and I've got lots of it for my Whisperlites) as you would after handling them or washing your bike as normal. DON'T get goop or soap on the brakes pads, or you'll have to remove them and torch them.

Though the above is a little daunting, it's worth it in the long run. I've run the Geaxs and WTBs (very large--I wouldn't recommend it with the Hutchinsons) down at 18 psi. They're incredibly squishy and conformant at this pressure, and allow one to ride up pretty much anything. I ride 219s, which are really fat, and damn strong--I wouldn't dream of running Pythons (or any non-DH Michelins, or Contis, etc) lower than 30 psi on a rim like the 317/517. Neither the wheel or the tire would hold up very long! Pressures are one big experiment--carry a pump, _two_ tubes, and go nuts. Whatever the case, tubeless makes prior-to unheard of pressures a reality. Good luck, and I hope that helped!


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## bill (Dec 28, 2003)

*Has anyone tried Berryman tire sealant?*

I found this at a tractor supply store at $7 for a 32 oz bottle, and have used it for sealing the tires on my lawn tractor. I had one that was leaking through cracks in the sidewalls that it sealed very quickly, so it seals very well. It is thicker than Stans and has a filler in it that probably is for good gap filling. It is slightly different than Slime also. A 60 oz. scoop weighs the same as Stans. I'll be tring it this spring, and post back with the results.

bill


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*People's republic*

Maverick! Hah! I'm way too much of a retro grouch to work there! High tech? Works well? Pricey? Not for me...

Fuentesdesign. Tiny shop. Run and owned by me. I do maybe a bike or two a month in the winter, at most. I haven't sold any of my frames yet, but I'm putting some under me for the race circuit this summer. If they work out well, I'll be ready to start getting paid...the current project is a 4130 straight-gauge (gah! 6 pound frame!) townie for my lady friend.

I'm a big Ned freak in the summertime - I think I got in like 50 days up there last year. How 'bout you?

-W



SDizzle said:


> What shop? Probably not Maverick, given your description...
> 
> If you're ever looking for a good time, I can be found on the local or SS board! Where's your favorite haunt?


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

*I find it to be less hassle than Stan's*



atbcrash said:


> Why not just use the Stans sealant. It saves you the hassle of making the homemade stuff and it works great. I have not had a flat since June of last year when I hit some glass and it tore the tire. It may cost a little bit more than the homemade stuff but it works great with little failure. I do not use the stans strip though. I use Eclipse tubeless which I found to be much better than stans.


Once you have the ingredients, (very easy to obtain where I live. Just a trip to the crafts store and a trip to Autozone or Pep Boys), I just pull out a tablespoon, throw a scoop of each into the blender along with 1/4 cup Windex and touch the button. Quick and easy.
I usually mix up a double or triple batch and pour it into squirt bottles that I bought at the 99 cent store. Everything rinses out very easily. Ordering Stan's, I have to call or get on the net, give someone my Credit Card #, and wait for it to come. Then when I want to do more tires, I have to order again, unless I have ordered extra to begin with. Its just easier to mix my own, even though Stan might have a better formula.

That being said, Stan is a good guy and I am all for supporting him and his business. I just have to save money where I can right now. I may give his or Eclipse rimstrips a whirl.


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## sodade (Jan 28, 2004)

Thanks Man! That was exactly what I was looking for - I figured you knew your tubeless stuff if you were trying to figure out the most cost effective solution...


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## thebronze (Jan 13, 2004)

ok now what if you threw that homebrew mix into a tube?
I mean basically its the same thing as the tire so it should seal right...?


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

Ok, I get the slime and anti freeze or washer solution thing, but what is the latex for ?


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

I use windshieldwasher fluid and liquid latex for a set of tubeless studded ice tires, but the suckers deflated inside a week. Course the air is freaking dry around here cause its winter.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

A little off topic:

But I'll add this question to the WW FAQs very soon

Trevor!


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## TeamTwentyFour (Feb 12, 2004)

*Some questions....*

What kind of air loss (over time) do any of you experience with non-UST tires and your home made sealant? (providing that the tires are in good condition....no holes, rips, etc).

I am very interested in mixing some up and giving it a go.

Also, is this solution water soluble (can it be easily cleaned up from where it's not wanted, or does it leave a stubborn residue?)

I see the purpose of the slime, water, and latex, but what's the purpose of using the windex or antifreeze? Is this something used by riders who live in sub-freezing temperatures (I don't), or is there another reason?

Thanks for the great info!


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## Frankie - B (Feb 24, 2004)

Just made it myself, and have it on my bikes now for more than a week. I see a two psi air loss every day. That's not much! 

I use antfreeze as a base. Than add latex and slime. I'm in holland. its freezing here!

Good luck!


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

I found this recipe in a mtbr forum archive: Recently tried this formula. One small bottle Elmers Glue, 1tsb of table salt, 3Tbs of nail polish remover. This works better than Stans or anythig else out there. The salt acts to neutrolize the nail polish remover and creates a bonding agent when mix at high with a regular kitchen blender.
My question is what type of elmers glue should i use.


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

orestis said:


> I found this recipe in a mtbr forum archive: Recently tried this formula. One small bottle Elmers Glue, 1tsb of table salt, 3Tbs of nail polish remover. This works better than Stans or anythig else out there. The salt acts to neutrolize the nail polish remover and creates a bonding agent when mix at high with a regular kitchen blender.
> My question is what type of elmers glue should i use.


You said you recently tried it, or did you cut and paste that part from the archive? I've never heard of that formula, so I'm not sure what to think. The nail polish remover doesn't sound too promising. I'm no chemist, but I question whether or not salt would neutralize acetone. Doesn't sound right. Sounds like it'd eat through my $40 tire. I'm definitely waiting till someone else tries this before I do. That being said, It'd be cool if it works.


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

DaFireMedic said:


> You said you recently tried it, or did you cut and paste that part from the archive? I've never heard of that formula, so I'm not sure what to think. The nail polish remover doesn't sound too promising. I'm no chemist, but I question whether or not salt would neutralize acetone. Doesn't sound right. Sounds like it'd eat through my $40 tire. I'm definitely waiting till someone else tries this before I do. That being said, It'd be cool if it works.


I just mentioned it!Exactly I found it in aforum archive!I did not try this sealant because i am afraid of using nail polish remover!
What about using ethyl alchohol from a drug store instead of windshield cleaner?

I am looking for a sealant for my home made tubless kit!!!


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## Tbone (Jan 28, 2004)

*Rimstrips*

I've recently tried Walt's recipe and it works great. Had tried only the molbuilder's latex and water with little to no success. With slime added to the mix it works good.

My question is this. Has anyone tried to run without rimstrips? If so have you flatted from burping the sidewall? I don't mean using tape layered up around the rim to take the place of the strip - I mean no strip.


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

Tbone said:


> I've recently tried Walt's recipe and it works great. Had tried only the molbuilder's latex and water with little to no success. With slime added to the mix it works good.
> 
> My question is this. Has anyone tried to run without rimstrips? If so have you flatted from burping the sidewall? I don't mean using tape layered up around the rim to take the place of the strip - I mean no strip.


Well a friend of mine does not use rim strip instead he uses a reinforced fiber duct tape and then a layer of electrical duct tape but after 10 minutes the sealant (stan sealant)effect with the glue of the tape so the tape loose its stickiness!!so the tire blew off&#8230;


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## capt pearl (Mar 10, 2004)

*rimstrips and rolling resistance Q's*

OK, I've obviously never used stan's or anybody elses. But I live near a rocky, rooty, biatch of a trail and could use some traction and flat protection. So,

1 - Don't you need rimstrips, like the ones that stan sells, to use the homemade brew? Is there a homemade tubeless rimstrip or do you just use the standard tapes?

2 - I don't understand how you can lower the PSI (which increases traction, as I understand it) and get decreased rolling resistance at the same time. Doesn't lower PSI = MORE rolling resistance?

Thanks,

-capt p


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## mattbikeboy (Jun 8, 2004)

*Tire choice for home-made tubeless?*

What tires run well with tubless conversion kits? I've been running mythos kevlars with Stans on Bontrager Asym rims and have been having problems with blowing off 25-50% of my air if I hit an edge at an angle. Is this a problem that we accept or should I try another brand of tire? I ride hard packed w/ a little sand on our desert trails in Vegas (fyi).


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

orestis said:


> I just mentioned it!Exactly I found it in aforum archive!I did not try this sealant because i am afraid of using nail polish remover!
> What about using ethyl alchohol from a drug store instead of windshield cleaner?
> 
> I am looking for a sealant for my home made tubless kit!!!


Easy there buckaroo, I wasn't insinuating anything, just clarifying the wording "Recently tried this formula" that you included in your post. I didn't know if you had written it or if it was from the archive post that you had cited.

Walt's formula has always worked well for me. The only thing that I do different is to double the amount of tubeless Slime. Seems to seal holes better that way.

My thinking is that alcohol itself would not work as well, as it would tend to dry the solution quicker. The Window cleaner is cheaper as well, I believe.

As far as rimstrips go, I have used it without rimstrips, but found it to be more difficult to get the initial seal on the tire. I have made some homemade rimstrips out of Bontrager tubes (they have a removeable valve core) , and they worked pretty well. I posted a picture on one of the other threads if you search back a couple of months.

I am now using Eclipse rimstrips which are just easier to work with. They look to be more secure, time will tell. No problems yet after a month or so. I recommend them if you can afford them. If you use the Eclipse latex solution, I recommend adding a pinch of the tubeless Slime.

Regardless of what system i've used, i've never had any tire burping episodes as described by mattbikeboy. I would try a different tire. Here's the list of tires that I've run successfully:

Maxxis Wormdrive 430
Maxxis Minotaur 380
Schwalbe Fast Fred
Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.25
Specialized Roll-X
Specialized Team Master
Specialized Team Control
Kenda Karma DTC (currently on my bike)

I haven't yet tried a tire that wouldn't work, with the exception of a Hutchinsn Python Airlight (blew off the rim with a bang) , but I'm not sure if that was my fault or a defective tire. Many others have used this tire successfully.

As far as the rolling resistance goes, tire pressure isn't the only factor. Tread design, rubber compounds etc., also affect it, as does the inner tube. Going to tubeless does decrease rolling resistance, although you give a little of that back for the benefits of running lower pressures.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

*Other tires*

I've been running Continental Explorer Pro and Escape 2.1 with success since last December, no flats, just a cut made by a glass while street cruising to get to the woods that sealed and held pretty well until I got home (fortunately), tire repaired and doing OK. Using homebrew latex, specialized slime and windex, no water.


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

doccoraje said:


> I've been running Continental Explorer Pro and Escape 2.1 with success since last December, no flats, just a cut made by a glass while street cruising to get to the woods that sealed and held pretty well until I got home (fortunately), tire repaired and doing OK. Using homebrew latex, specialized slime and windex, no water.


Thats right, I had mentioned a few months back that I was going to try the Specialized sealant, seems it would work pretty good. I still haven't used up my bottle of Slime yet though....


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## wayneosdias (Mar 24, 2004)

capt pearl said:


> OK, I've obviously never used stan's or anybody elses. But I live near a rocky, rooty, biatch of a trail and could use some traction and flat protection. So,
> 
> 1 - Don't you need rimstrips, like the ones that stan sells, to use the homemade brew? Is there a homemade tubeless rimstrip or do you just use the standard tapes?
> 
> ...


In the past I used a 24" tube stretched around a 26" rim. Youll have to slice the outer circumfrence down the middle, then fold over and glue down the excess flaps down on the inside of the tube leaving a little overlap the edge of the rim, now take a razor and trim the the tube so it seats just bellow the rim edge.

Kinda alot of work but beats the $60 cost of stans.

wayne


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

wayneosdias said:


> In the past I used a 24" tube stretched around a 26" rim. Youll have to slice the outer circumfrence down the middle, then fold over and glue down the excess flaps down on the inside of the tube leaving a little overlap the edge of the rim, now take a razor and trim the the tube so it seats just bellow the rim edge.
> 
> Kinda alot of work but beats the $60 cost of stans.
> 
> wayne


The only problem I had with this was finding a 24" tube with a Presta valve. I found myself doing the same general thing but with a 26" Bontrager tube that I cut a section out of and glued with patch glue. This way I would have a tight fitting strip with a Presta valve and a removeable core.


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

I found a cheap 24inch tube with dunlop valve the firm is deestone and I found it in a motorcycle shop which also sells cheap bikes and componets!!!(Dunlop valve has removable core!)The tube costs 1,5 euro!
Well about tire choice I use Hutchinson pythons Kevlar bead,i have tried mythos steel bead but I can not inflate them,the same happens with all steel bead tires.Kevlar tires have wider space between beads so they seat in rim grooves.


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

does anyboby know about using antifreeze for cars instead of windshield waher??antifreeze consists of ethyl glycol and I read that someone use it in their sealant.
after reading the recipes for homemade sealant,the most important thing is an ingredient that evaporates easily, so what about using alchohol?(the one that we use for medical use)


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

orestis said:


> does anyboby know about using antifreeze for cars instead of windshield waher??antifreeze consists of ethyl glycol and I read that someone use it in their sealant.
> after reading the recipes for homemade sealant,the most important thing is an ingredient that evaporates easily, so what about using alchohol?(the one that we use for medical use)


I've tried the Ethylene Glycol before, seemed to work O.K., but its highly toxic so I don't use it. I'm no chemist but it seems that Isopropyl Alcohol would would cause faster evaporation. Anybody?


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## mtnfiend (Feb 26, 2004)

*Homemade Sealent Not So Good*

I followed several people's suggestions and made up my own home brew of Slime tubeless, modelers latex, windshield fluid, and water. I am running my favorite WTB Velociraptor 2.1. First of all; mounting non-tubeless tires is a pain in the arse without compressed air. And I mean lots of it, not a little CO2 cartridge.

This weekend I went riding at Snow Summit, a LA area ski resort and flatted. I got a nice little cut in my side wall from shooting through this rock garden. The cut was about 1-2 cm. There was a little sealant seeping out of the hole as all the air leaked out.

The really crappy thing is I think I now have a flat spot in my new King/Mavic XM819 wheelset. 

Q1) Now that I have a hole in my side wall do I need to replace my tire before I can run tubeless again, or is there a way I can patch my sidewall from the inside?

Q2) I would think that the sealant should have sealed the hole in my sidewall. Does anyone have any suggestion as to what I might have done wrong? Not enough sealant? There was still a small puddle of liquid sealant in the tube after the tire flatted.

Q3) Any other suggestions are welcome.

Thanks in advance for your help!


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

DaFireMedic said:


> Easy there buckaroo, I wasn't insinuating anything, just clarifying the wording "Recently tried this formula" that you included in your post. I didn't know if you had written it or if it was from the archive post that you had cited.
> 
> Walt's formula has always worked well for me. The only thing that I do different is to double the amount of tubeless Slime. Seems to seal holes better that way.
> 
> ...


Dafiremedic It didn't cross my mind that you insinuating me(just now I found word insinuating in dictionary!) so there is no tension!!when I wrote that I have just mentioned it I meant only that I have juste mentined it!I think the problem is with my English&#8230;I am not native English speaker.
Sorry for the misunderstanding..


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

mtnfiend said:


> I followed several people's suggestions and made up my own home brew of Slime tubeless, modelers latex, windshield fluid, and water. I am running my favorite WTB Velociraptor 2.1. First of all; mounting non-tubeless tires is a pain in the arse without compressed air. And I mean lots of it, not a little CO2 cartridge.
> 
> This weekend I went riding at Snow Summit, a LA area ski resort and flatted. I got a nice little cut in my side wall from shooting through this rock garden. The cut was about 1-2 cm. There was a little sealant seeping out of the hole as all the air leaked out.
> 
> ...


The cut was very big!the sealant is only for thorns and small holes.
you can patch your tire from iside with tubeless patch which is thicker.
I have tried to patch my python with normal patch but because of high pressure the patch created a tumor in the sidewall cut and blew off!!
Now I try to patch with a piece of rubber of an old tube and I glue it with super glue,however I didn't try to inflate it yet.


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

DaFireMedic said:


> I've tried the Ethylene Glycol before, seemed to work O.K., but its highly toxic so I don't use it. I'm no chemist but it seems that Isopropyl Alcohol would would cause faster evaporation. Anybody?


where can i find isopropyl alcohol??in windshield washer??


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

mtnfiend said:


> I followed several people's suggestions and made up my own home brew of Slime tubeless, modelers latex, windshield fluid, and water. I am running my favorite WTB Velociraptor 2.1. First of all; mounting non-tubeless tires is a pain in the arse without compressed air. And I mean lots of it, not a little CO2 cartridge.
> 
> This weekend I went riding at Snow Summit, a LA area ski resort and flatted. I got a nice little cut in my side wall from shooting through this rock garden. The cut was about 1-2 cm. There was a little sealant seeping out of the hole as all the air leaked out.
> 
> ...


As Orestis said, a 1-2 cm hole probably won't seal regardless of what sealant you use. Patch the tire and reseal it. You said there was sealant left in the tube, did you mean in the tire?



orestis said:


> where can i find isopropyl alcohol??in windshield washer??


Isopropyl alcohol is the type used in the medical field, you can find it at any drug store. I only mentioned it because you had mentioned using alcohol from the medical field in the sealant. As I was saying though, I believe that the alcohol would just make the evaporation problem worse, so I wouldn't recommend it.



orestis said:


> Dafiremedic It didn't cross my mind that you insinuating me(just now I found word insinuating in dictionary!) so there is no tension!!when I wrote that I have just mentioned it I meant only that I have juste mentined it!I think the problem is with my English&#8230;I am not native English speaker.
> Sorry for the misunderstanding..


He he, no problem. Actually, your English is pretty good. Thanks for replying, no tension at all...


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

orestis said:


> where can i find isopropyl alcohol??in windshield washer??


ever tried to ask for at a pharmacy?


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## DH_WP (Feb 5, 2004)

*My Tubless mix*

Ok, this is my first attemt at making a non tubless tire tubless.
I used 1/2a bottle of slime and some "emergancy tire repear aircanaster" that you get for car tires with a latex rubber foam inside.
So far the tire is holding air but will know tommorow morning if it has worked... 
I decided on a IRC serac so if anyone out there has tried this tire ? 
What pressure should I be looking at ? 
Oh yes ... do not pump a non tubless tire up to 60psi without a tube ... mine blew off and I had slime and foam everywhere...and a bent rim that I had to str8en


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## jisozaki (Apr 23, 2004)

*Stan's rimstrip subsitutes*

I've read sometime earlier (but can't find it again) that people have used strapping tape in place of the Stan's rim strips. What do they use for the valve? do they just cut out a presta valve from an old inner tube and then tighten it on with the valve stem nut?

another questions concerning the homemade (or Stan's) tire sealer. can water or some other solvent be added to the tire once the previous liquid has dried out? I'm assuming only the water or solvent carrier has evaporated out and the slime or latex solids are still in the tire.


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## danK (Jan 15, 2004)

jisozaki said:


> I've read sometime earlier (but can't find it again) that people have used strapping tape in place of the Stan's rim strips. What do they use for the valve? do they just cut out a presta valve from an old inner tube and then tighten it on with the valve stem nut?
> 
> another questions concerning the homemade (or Stan's) tire sealer. can water or some other solvent be added to the tire once the previous liquid has dried out? I'm assuming only the water or solvent carrier has evaporated out and the slime or latex solids are still in the tire.


Use UST valve stems. Some shops will rip you for $10 each, while some will give them for free. Or use an old presta valve and cut it with about 1/4 of rubber around the valve; use an o-ring on the inside and a valve stem nut on the outside.

I use 3M strapping tape and then electrical tape over it. Quick and easy. Get all the air out, and press it down tight. Obviously you'll know if you sealed things up; 2 or 3 passes of the strapping, and 1 or 2 with the electrical.

Some use a 20" bmx tube and slit it down the middle and cut it so it fits under the rim's lip.

http://www.waltworks.com/dev/faq/gotubeless.pdf is a decent guideline. The recipe is pretty dang good. I did my wheels in about 10 minutes (317 rims with 2.4 mutanoraptors.... a good air compressor is key, and make sure you spin/ride the tires as soon as it's pumped up and down to your psi preferences).


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## rapwithtom (Feb 26, 2004)

*what pressures for tubeless?*

First, nobody asked, but I'll give my opinion anyway. I'm a new racer, racing beginner class, and have done about 10 races this summer. Every race I pass a couple of yahoos off to the side of the trail fixing flats, and all I can think of is, "why aren't you boneheads using Stan's"? I weigh 200 pounds and have not flatted since I went tubeless...despite recklessly careening off of every sharp baby head within 200 miles of Boulder.

Personally I can't imagine wanting to homebrew something that costs about $15 per summer, but that's just my opinion.

Now for the question: what pressures do you tubeless racers run? I hear a lot of talk about low pressure and increased traction, and I get that...but most of the race courses around here (Boulder) really aren't that technical, so it seems lower rolling resistance becomes more important...

My experience so far is (don't laugh, I'm a newbie, don't know nuttin, and I'm not afraid to experiment):
30 PSI - felt fine, but my race time really sucked
40 PSI - felt fine, but my race time sucked
50 PSI - felt mmm, little harsh, but my race time sucked
60 PSI - wow, real ball slapper, and my race time sucked

Help appreciated...


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## danK (Jan 15, 2004)

DH_WP said:


> Oh yes ... do not pump a non tubless tire up to 60psi without a tube ... mine blew off and I had slime and foam everywhere...and a bent rim that I had to str8en


I pumped 6 non-tubeless tires up to 60 psi without a tube. No problems with slime, foam or rims.
317 rims, WTB and IRS tires.


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## danK (Jan 15, 2004)

rapwithtom said:


> Now for the question: what pressures do you tubeless racers run? I hear a lot of talk about low pressure and increased traction, and I get that...but most of the race courses around here (Boulder) really aren't that technical, so it seems lower rolling resistance becomes more important...
> 
> My experience so far is (don't laugh, I'm a newbie, don't know nuttin, and I'm not afraid to experiment):
> 30 PSI - felt fine, but my race time really sucked
> ...


Your sucky times and psi have nothing to do with one another.

Tubeless psi's vary according to rider weight, riding style, terrain, etc., etc. This you might already know. Most tubeless riders I know are anywhere between 28 and 32 in the front, and 30 and 32 in the rear, with a few going way low and a few heavier/more hardcore a bit higher.

You race in/around Boulder? Buy a road bike. Your mtb's tubeless psi woes will no longer be an issue.


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

Today I convert my wheels into tubeless with a home made rim strip and sealant.
I used irc mythosII and there is no lekage!
A good tip for fast sealing of porous sidewalls is to spread with a brush latex slightly diluted with water, inside of sidewall and let it dry.After that you pour the sealing mixture.and inflate the tyre.
I went for a 30 km test ride in stony fire roads,rocky singletracks and in tarmac.
When I used tubes I run 48-53 psi to prevent snakebites(especially in races) even I am 58 kg .With 50 psithe bike was very unstable at technical singletraks and uphils with stones..
Now with tubeless I run 35 psi and I discover how plush the bike could be!!


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## DaFireMedic (Jan 13, 2004)

orestis said:


> Today I convert my wheels into tubeless with a home made rim strip and sealant.
> I used irc mythosII and there is no lekage!
> A good tip for fast sealing of porous sidewalls is to spread with a brush latex slightly diluted with water, inside of sidewall and let it dry.After that you pour the sealing mixture.and inflate the tyre.
> I went for a 30 km test ride in stony fire roads,rocky singletracks and in tarmac.
> ...


Ahhh, the joys of tubeless, eh? Good job.


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## full_xtr_racer (May 26, 2004)

danK said:


> I use 3M strapping tape and then electrical tape over it. Quick and easy. Get all the air out, and press it down tight. Obviously you'll know if you sealed things up; 2 or 3 passes of the strapping, and 1 or 2 with the electrical.
> 
> Some use a 20" bmx tube and slit it down the middle and cut it so it fits under the rim's lip.


if you use the bmx tube, is the strapping tape optional? or do you need both?


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

full_xtr_racer said:


> if you use the bmx tube, is the strapping tape optional? or do you need both?


if you use the bmx tube the sealing agent is the tube so the tape is only for protection of the tube from the nipples.
i use an rim stri of an 24 inch tube and two straps of duct tape to protect the rim strip of nipples and as extra sealing if the sealant fall between the tube and the rim


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

last week I have two punctures in my irc mythos 2 tyre the one was a small cut in the tread but not too deep to cut the wire frame of the tyre however th home made sealant did its work!!!i rotate the wheel in order sealant go to the hole and thats it!!
I had another puncture which it was a hole that penatrate the frame of the tyre however the hole closed again !!
the sealant consists of 30 ml latex ,20 ml windshield washer and 15ml water!


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## Tall (Feb 3, 2004)

*that's a recipe for disaster*

nail polish remover and elmer's glue?! Hell, better off using my special and personal recipe: two 1" slices of whole wheat and a half cup of extra crunchy peanut butter...mmm. Seals up everything good and tight!


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

what about using small pieces of rubber in the liquid mix in order to close the holes better?
for example small pieces of tread rubber of an old tyre?(something like the black thing in the slime,is it rubber?)


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

orestis said:


> what about using small pieces of rubber in the liquid mix in order to close the holes better?
> for example small pieces of tread rubber of an old tyre?(something like the black thing in the slime,is it rubber?)


the idea might be good but how to get such small rubberpieces (and they have to be reaaally small!) out of tyres, tubes, whatsoever?


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

an idea is to cut the rubber in large pieces and then put them in a blender!!(like these we use in kitchen)


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

orestis said:


> an idea is to cut the rubber in large pieces and then put them in a blender!!(like these we use in kitchen)


one problem is the rubber getting quite warm and a bit softer inside the blender and thus smearing and smelling bad rather than being cut in smaller pieces (i've allready tried that a few months ago  )

maybe perhaps possibly it would be a good idea to cool the rubber down in a freezer...


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## cartman (Oct 6, 2004)

*Glitter and eraser bits*



orestis said:


> what about using small pieces of rubber in the liquid mix in order to close the holes better?


A buddy of mine adds some glitter to his latex mix to aid coagulation. And lately he's also been trying bits of eraser, obtained by rubbing an eraser on coarse sandpaper.


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## rpbt (Mar 8, 2004)

*pressures*

I know most of us (bikers) go tubeless with standard tires and sealant to ride with lower air pressure but I wonder what would be the maximum safe air pressure ?. 
I noticed that maximum pressure recommended by Stan is lower then max preassure recommended by standard tire manufacturers.

When riding on road I usually use preassure near 50 psi.

Another thing that concerns me is if any ingredient of that homemade sealant can go into chemical reaction with tire rubber and damage it ??

sorry for language mistakes (if any  )

Thanks


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## Monte (Dec 20, 2003)

Hey,
I'm using this mixture:
1 part Liquid Latex
1 part tubeless Slime
3 parts windshield wash

It seems sort of thin. How thick/thin do you think this sort of sealant should be? Ketchup? Milk? House paint? It sealed the bead fine, not sure how it would do with a pinch or a poke. I put about 2 oz in each tire. The front is a WTB MotoRaptor (not a UST tire) on a UST rim and the rear is a UST Fat Albert on a UST rim.

Monte


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## orestis (Feb 12, 2004)

my mixture is as thick as milk and a bit thickier.it works fine with thorns.

apart from that I am thinking of filling tubes with home made sealant,beacause it is very difficult to change a tyre especialy in races(the bead sticks to the rim strrip tightly.
home made sealant will work in a tube or is it better to fill the tubes with Slime?apart from protection against thorns I want protection against pinch flats and I dont know if Slime or home made Sealant is able to close holes of pinch flatted tube.
any suggestions?


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## CulBaire (Jan 18, 2004)

Bit of a revisit to the thread... 

Some people mentioned that the normal slime, didn't have enough chunks in it to seal well... When I run out of slime I tyred something a little different. 

30ml Latex
20ml Smax Wax (Chain wax, it's **** and this is about all it's good for)
10ml of Windex 

What I also done though, was ground down some old rubber and foam grips and putting the fillings into the mixture- it added the needed chunks. I also noted doing this- these chunks will bunch around the hole in the event that the tyre gets a hole... I have also found while it doesn't seal the hole completely, it cuts airloss down to about 1psi every hour... Which in my case held up enough for my 4hr mtb ride. 


I plan on doing a similar thing with my slime- now that the store has it in stock... 
I generally run a 
30ml Latex
15ml Slime ( a nice blob)
5ml Windex 
I will add chunks to this also and see how it goes.


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## redraider268 (Mar 31, 2004)

Has anyone figured out what the solid particles are in Stan's formula? This seems to be the missing ingredient from all of the recipes above.


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

bill said:


> I found this at a tractor supply store at $7 for a 32 oz bottle, and have used it for sealing the tires on my lawn tractor. I had one that was leaking through cracks in the sidewalls that it sealed very quickly, so it seals very well. It is thicker than Stans and has a filler in it that probably is for good gap filling. It is slightly different than Slime also. A 60 oz. scoop weighs the same as Stans.
> bill












I picked some of this up today to use for a small leak around my olympic valve stem. It worked like a charm! If I was gonna run sealant, I'd use it. Seems a very good consistancy...better than stan's.


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