# DtSwiss 240 EXP - engagement problem



## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Hi have a set of new DTswiss 240 EXP - 1.000km up to today.
Since they turned 500km, the rear hub engagement his giving me problems:
every once in a while the ratchet did not engage (loose wheel feeling) and suddenly engaged again.
Recently, when the ratchet does not engage, it just stay loose... I have to stop, disassemble the rear wheel, pull the spring and ratchet out, assemble again and ride...
Of course I asked for a warranty replacement. Just wanted to know if I am an isolated case or if it is a known issue with the new exp?

*05/2021 updated information*: as this is a fortunately/unfortunately long discussion, please check the DtSwiss notice acknowledging this problem: Ratchet EXP maintenance notice | DT Swiss for hubs with a “0” on the serial number.

*11/2021 updated information*: hubs with serial number different from “0” have also failed! Both 240 EXP and 180 EXP are affected.

*06/2022 updated information: *it seems that after Q1/2022, most problems have disappeared as no new complains arrive.

*Info to newcomers to this thread*:
During this long thread you will find dozens of users info about when (how many km) hubs began to fail, how long did it take to solve the issue with dtSwiss and how is the repaired hub working.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Either you didn't reassemble it correctly, or your axle/skewer isn't tight. 

Or both.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Dear Mike, 
That was not the case; the bike has already been checked and doubled checked by 2 professional mechanics. It is a problem within the ratchet mechanism itself. Spring system gets somehow stuck and ratchet does not spring out to engage.
None of them has ever seen such a problem; just wondering if anyone with the new EXP system has had similar problems...


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## shwndh (Nov 20, 2004)

Following. 

In the market for a new hub set and was worried about recent changes to DT's system.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

does not sound like you work on things yourself, but you can get on there, you will seer what is hanging up the ratchet gears on spring, there is a lip in there its catching on when freewheeling and its getting cocked off to one side when assembled. 

The next option would be spring tension, if nothing is hanging up the ratchet, you might want to stretch the spring so that there is enough tension. Its not a big deal, they offer stiffer springs with the high teeth count ratchets. 

Your just needs a little love since we know it works well after putting it back together, I would only be worried if teeth were trashed, which they will be if you dont get this fixed. Nothing worse for this then almost catching and wearing teeth


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

You are right, mostly the professional mechanics worked on it as they are far more experienced than I am. Though unfortunaltey I already had to fix this issue on the trails a couple of times last week.

When dissasembling the wheel, we can see the ratchet held back (unengaged); we pull it out by hand and everything comes back to normal... so it seems that between the red ring, the spring and the moving ratchet, something fails every once in a while...

We already tried to stretch the spring - thought it solved it - it didn’t.

I am also worried that these consecutives failed engagements somehow dammaged the surface on both sides of the ratchet. Therefore, I asked for a warranty replacement last Friday.

I am sure that DTSwiss would not release a faulty product... just wondering if “there is anybody out there” with the same issue.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

so if you witnessed it unengaged, you saw what was hanging it up, maybe you need more chamfer on the ratchet outside edge so it drops into place. 

Little dremel work could solve this in a few minutes since it comes a part so easy.

if you can replicate the condition where its hanging up, and take a picture it will be easy to diagnose


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Well, usually as soon the cassette is pulled out, the ratchet “jumps” out. Other times it remains locked in with absolutely no apparent reason: not twisted, uncentered or any other thing.
If it was an old hub - which it is not, it has 7 weeks - I would change the red ring (don’t know the name), the spring and the moving ratchet for a new set... probably it would solve it. As it is new, of course I am asking for a warranty replacement.

Sorry, I have no picture...

you talked about increasing the chamfer on the outside of the moving ratchet? Is that something that is usually done?! I will not do it for warranty reasons but I am interested to know if that is a thing that is usually done to correct ratchet engagements?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I've never heard of anyone doing that. It should not be required or necessary if all parts are installed correctly, not damaged and are lubricated sufficiently.

Are you sure that you have ALL of the required pieces? Do you have the red bushing that both of the star ratchets touch?


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Nande said:


> you talked about increasing the chamfer on the outside of the moving ratchet? Is that something that is usually done?!


it is not normally done. But what you are describing is also far from normal

something is causing your ratchet to bind up, probably because its new and not worn in, that is where i would clean it up, once found. So it may not be the outside teeth, but right now we dont know.

take it a part and clean all parts and then look for where and why its binding. this would take me about 5 minutes to fix. you can take spring out and make sure the ratchet teeth are moving in cassette housing cleanly, i have an idea that maybe your spring is not seating the ratchet level that is applying equal pressure pushing down, nut its just an idea until we know more


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

I know some of these springs are directional, but I also have a set that is not, you may be able to turn spring around so that it is seating better. Either way make sure it looks flat where ratchet seats on it


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Le Duke said:


> I've never heard of anyone doing that. It should not be required or necessary if all parts are installed correctly, not damaged and are lubricated sufficiently.


Agreed

""installed correctly"" has me suspicious

these are the most reliable hubs on the market

If the ratchet was dropped by a mechanic it may be oval now and not round and getting stuck on the hub teeth, who knows. OP need to investigate the issue and there should be an obvious problem. I wonder if the red spring retainer is being seated fully into the ratchet as well. OR if its installed backwards. One would have to take off the cassette to make sure its getting seated fully.

my old style with a 60t is bullet proof, love it and its simplicity.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Outhouse said:


> Agreed
> 
> ""installed correctly"" has me suspicious
> 
> ...


Sounded like OP got this hub (or wheelset) as a new part. So the first time it happened, it was assembled by factory.

OP: I wouldn't fiddle with this, or dremel or other things. All that may/will void warranty. Just throw that back to DT Swiss. 
If the problem occurred AFTER you or your LBS disassembled the first time (for cleaning greasing etc.), then it maybe an assembly issue by you or your LBS. but if it happened before you /LBS opened it the first time, it is on DT Swiss.

I was curious about how the EXP hubs work out since they only have one spring. I would hope the one spring would be twice the strength of the old two springs.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Thank you all for your inputs:
Le Duke - not 100% sure if I have the red bushing that should touch both ratchets. Will definetly confirm this tomorrow. It would mean that the red bushing could be missing when I got the hub from DTSwiss... doubt that.

Otherwise - yes, it was a brand new part that was installed. First problems appeared before anyone touched it, so whatever it is, it started after 500km and kept getting worse.

Of course it is impossible to say for sure that nobody droped some parts when trying to solve this issue... but anyway the issue appeared before anyone touched it...

Fully agree that DTSwiss hubs are an excellent product: that was why I bought them! Huge disappointment when this started to happen. Will evaluate after sales within the next few days.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Just pull the cassette off with your hands. There’s no need to pay anyone to do this. This is a home mechanic fix.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Le Duke, already did it a few times on the trails (unfortunately). I am not home today, so can only check it tomorrow


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Maybe a silly question, but you've mentioned pulling the mechanism and cleaning it - is there any chance it isn't being lubricated properly? (I know the old DT hubs don't really require lubrication of parts other than the ratchet mechanism, but thought it might not hurt to ask)


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

This isn't the most reliable hub. It's a new hub assembly by a reliable manufacturer. 
It's useful to reserve endorsement until it earns a reliable tag.
Honda replaced the most reliable 4 cylinder K24 engine with a 1.5L turbo that pushes too much gas past the rings to dilute the engine oil. New is different.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

eb1888 said:


> This isn't the most reliable hub. It's a new hub assembly by a reliable manufacturer.
> It's useful to reserve endorsement until it earns a reliable tag.
> Honda replaced the most reliable 4 cylinder K24 engine with a 1.5L turbo that pushes too much gas past the rings to dilute the engine oil. New is different.



Extralite Racing Products has been using the so called new DT Swiss design for years and they are using aluminum for the ratchets....And Honda screwed up when the put FI on the 450X a few years ago!!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Le Duke, the red bushing is in place - so no part is missing.
Unfortunately now, I shall face the huge problems with delays in delivery that most bike industry is facing.

Will probably find a different solution to bridge the gap...


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Redlands, lubrication is OK, has been checked and double checked by a couple of professional bike mechanics.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

OutHouse, as far as I understood, the spring in the new EXP is not conical, so it should not be directional. Nonetheless it is flat where the ratchet is sitting on.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

If the hub is 7 days old the solution is pretty simple. Take it back and have them replace it. There is some sort of manufacturing defect in the hub that is causing the ratchet to bind in place when it is not engaged. My guess is that you have now damaged the ratchet from it slipping (not your fault). Another outside possibility is that the spokes were over tensioned causing the ratchet seat to come out of round. The tension from the spokes can pull the hub in strange directions if something happened during the wheel build.

No matter what, this is not your issue and it should be dealt with by either the wheel manufacturer or DT Swiss


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## tuomio (Nov 30, 2020)

Hi, just posting to inform that the OP is not the only one with this problem. I bought a new XMC 1501 wheelset with the 240 EXP hubs a couple of months ago, and the rear hub developed the exact same problem after just a few weeks of riding.

Opened the hub, cleaned it and put it back together (two times) but to no avail. Luckily mine was not so bad as to require a teardown during a ride, as usually just a good shake or bounce dislodged the stuck ratchet and it started engaging again. At least for a minute or two.

The wheelset was mail ordered from bike-discount.com, so I returned it to them for service. They sent it to DT Swiss for further repairs. Last week I got the wheel back, and today took it for a test ride. Bad news is that after maybe 45 minutes of riding it is clear that the problem has not gone anywhere. During that time there were multiple occasions when the ratchet would not engage. Most of the times spinning the pedals once or twice would see the ratchet engaging again, but at least once I had to stop and give the bike a bit of a shakedown to make the hub come alive.

Needless to say, I'll be sending the wheel back again, hopefully for a full replacement this time. Luckily I have a spare M1700 rear wheel with a trusty 350 hub that has never given me any issues.


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## Jferrero (Dec 30, 2020)

Hi All, I'm from Spain and newcomer here. Someone has could to solve the ratchet problem with the engagement? Unfortunatly I have the same issue with a new DT240EXP rear hub that only ride 1000Km. Thanks in advance!!!


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## mtbfree (Aug 20, 2015)

Jferrero said:


> Hi All, I'm from Spain and newcomer here. Someone has could to solve the ratchet problem with the engagement? Unfortunatly I have the same issue with a new DT240EXP rear hub that only ride 1000Km. Thanks in advance!!!


All until now tried to solve this by warranty process - you should proceed the same.


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## Jferrero (Dec 30, 2020)

mtbfree said:


> All until now tried to solve this by warranty process - you should proceed the same.


Ok, I will manage the warranty. You know if DT Swiss puts troubles to replace this defaults products?

Enviado desde mi Redmi 8 usando Mtbr.com Forums


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Jferrero said:


> Ok, I will manage the warranty. You know if DT Swiss puts troubles to replace this defaults products?
> 
> Enviado desde mi Redmi 8 usando Mtbr.com Forums


Dt Swiss is very good at taking care of warranty situations - they will get you sorted out.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

no issues with mine so far, though its MUCH quieter than old style, which means less spring tension.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Nande said:


> OutHouse, as far as I understood, the spring in the new EXP is not conical, so it should not be directional. Nonetheless it is flat where the ratchet is sitting on.


Any progress on your situation?


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## Thomas Dehaene (Jan 21, 2021)

Nande said:


> Dear Mike,
> That was not the case; the bike has already been checked and doubled checked by 2 professional mechanics. It is a problem within the ratchet mechanism itself. Spring system gets somehow stuck and ratchet does not spring out to engage.
> None of them has ever seen such a problem; just wondering if anyone with the new EXP system has had similar problems...


Hello there I have exactly the same problem. How did you solve it? 
My new wheels are 3 months old. Not so cool..


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## OlivierP (Jan 25, 2021)

Hi from France. 
Exact same issue with DTswiss 240 exp on Farsports carbon gravel wheels. 5 weeks and 700km of riding. First issue, the hub was straight from factory. At disassembly nothing looked wrong except that the grease had became grey and the spring was very flexible. Cleaning, greasing with very few of the recommended "DT Swiss Special Grease". RE-issue after only 30km...
I've just contact Dtswiss by email. Waiting for response. I'm not kind of shipping my wheel to china for warranty claim.
Does anyone solve the problem by replacing the ratchet kit ? (I can't find it online with 36 teeth of engagement.)
It's 0 to 3 degré celsius here, does-it change the grease viscosity ?
Thanks for your support
(sorry for the english)


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Update on this situation:
1. Local dealer said the hub needed to go back to DTSwiss and wait for their answer - which takes time
2. Bought a new DTSwiss 240 EXP with immediate delivery, had it mounted in my bike. Has now 1.383km and performs flawlessly. 
3. Waiting for more than 2 months for DTSwiss answer; meanwhile I was told that they will not give me a new hub (that I could sell to get my money back from the 2nd one I had to buy). They will refurbish my hub and send it back - so it can only be sold as 2nd hand 

Not happy at all with customer support. Happy with the “second new hub” behaviour...


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

What about just a new freehub and spring assembly? Do you really need a new hub? Sorry if i missed the history.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

@FactoryMatt that is a good question. Did not do it for 2 reasons:
1. An assembly as you mentioned was not available for immediate delivery (more than 1 month waiting I was told)
2. I was unsure if it would solve the problem, as in fact no one ever identified specifically where the problem was located.

Ended up buying 3 hubs (one front, 2 back) to hopefully get the problem solved for good.
Now let's see how much more time do I have to wait to have a used hub that I will try to resell


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## trev aus (Feb 3, 2021)

same issue here with a road bike. Hoping for a replacement freehub. (DT240 2020EXP).


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

trev aus said:


> same issue here with a road bike. Hoping for a replacement freehub. (DT240 2020EXP).


what mileage? whats the grease situation? factory fill? is it over or underfilled? is the ratchet seized up in the freehub or what?


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## trev aus (Feb 3, 2021)

3 months old, about 3000km.
grease- factory fill. Ratchet seized in the hub. Mechanic took it out, spring also took a bit of getting out. Re-assembled and it engages again. Not comfortable riding with a ticking time bomb so trying to have the freehub unit replaced through warranty.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

did the mechanic say anything about there being TOO much grease in there? i guess at 3k it'd be hard to tell anyway though...

what do you mean the spring was hard to get out? like it wasn't sitting square in there?


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## trev aus (Feb 3, 2021)

no mention of there being too much grease. The spring was sitting in a grease so it took a bit of fishing out- more fiddly than difficult. The ratchet took more force to get out.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Since it seems that my engagement issue was not an isolated case, I suggest that all of you with similar issues let the community know how long it took for the issue to be solved and what was the solution given.

From my part;
Installed on September 30, 2020.
Hub started failing at 500km, died at 1089km on November 20, 2020.
Waiting since November 21st, 2020. Up to now total silence from both Dtswiss and local dealer.


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## Thomas Dehaene (Jan 21, 2021)

300kms ago I cleaned it (again). I put a very little grease on the ratchet and now I hadn't had the issue anymore. Hopefully it stays like that. I also stretched the spring a little bit more... 
I think there was too much greade inside my hub... 
Let's see what happens...


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## Lakner (Feb 6, 2021)

Hi

Unfortunately I have the same issue after about 2000km on MTB.
Have tried to clean an re-grease the system again without luck.
The first time I had the problem, were in a bad gearshift. I think it probably twisted something.
But it is very hard to se any damages.
Does anyone now if it is enough to change the body only.

Thx 🇩🇰


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Hello Lakner... interesting you mentioned that the first problem was during a gearshift...
100% of the times my hub failed engagement (and it was unfortunately lots of times), was after rolling in free hub and start pedaling. It failed the engagement.
It never happened to me that engagement failed during pedaling. Meaning, it never accidentally disengaged. It just not reengaged.

It seems that too many people are having problems with 240 EXP engagement, and some of you it started later than me... so with what is now my 2nd hub, after 1512km, I cannot say I am safe anymore... it can start all over again.


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## jockstick (Feb 8, 2021)

I'm really glad I discovered this thread. I was pretty set on ordering the 240 EXP for my new gravel wheelset, _primarily due to DT Swiss's reputation for reliability._

Now I think I will go with Carbon-Ti X-Hubs instead. It seems like they have held up great in every long term review I've encountered.


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## jockstick (Feb 8, 2021)

Oops, double post

I'm really glad I discovered this thread. I was pretty set on ordering the 240 EXP for my new gravel wheelset, _primarily due to DT Swiss's reputation for reliability._

Now I think I will go with Carbon-Ti X-Hubs instead. It seems like they have held up great in every long term review I've encountered.


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## Lakner (Feb 6, 2021)

Nande said:


> Hello Lakner... interesting you mentioned that the first problem was during a gearshift...
> 100% of the times my hub failed engagement (and it was unfortunately lots of times), was after rolling in free hub and start pedaling. It failed the engagement.
> It never happened to me that engagement failed during pedaling. Meaning, it never accidentally disengaged. It just not reengaged.
> 
> It seems that too many people are having problems with 240 EXP engagement, and some of you it started later than me... so with what is now my 2nd hub, after 1512km, I cannot say I am safe anymore... it can start all over again.


Sorry I haven't seen your answer before now.
I think I will try with a new body, hopefully it will do it.
I tried with a ratchet from a other wheel today. But no success 🤦


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

messing around with mine, it was very easy to have too much grease in and around the spring itself. this alone caused the spring the get stuck down with a little bit of a vacuum sound. gotta go REALLY light on the grease behind the ratchet.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

trev aus said:


> Not comfortable riding with a ticking time bomb so trying to have the freehub unit replaced through warranty.


How or why would replacing the freehub help?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

all the movement is in the freehub. the hub side spline is fixed and wouldn't pose a problem unless the drive-ring threads are off-square/out of plane. 

replacing the freehub would help if the splines in the freehub have been warped thus contributing to the ratchet locking up or are out of tolerance or unsquare. Its unclear whether its a tolerance/material issue or just too much grease in combination with a soft spring.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

FactoryMatt said:


> all the movement is in the freehub. the hub side spline is fixed and wouldn't pose a problem unless the drive-ring threads are off-square/out of plane.
> 
> replacing the freehub would help if the splines in the freehub have been warped thus contributing to the ratchet locking up or are out of tolerance or unsquare. Its unclear whether its a tolerance/material issue or just too much grease in combination with a soft spring.


Has there been any evidence provided that any freehubs have actually "warped"?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

apparently not. i just spoke with DT Swiss today, and there seems to be none. They say FH is the same material as before, just a different finish. (great service and support there btw).

though i've seen an EXP ratchet so seized it had to be dug out with an allen key after just a few miles of being 'reset'. it was cocked in there pretty good. next to no grease in the splines themselves; unsure of grease behind the ratchet. a stronger spring and thicker ratchet would certainly help it seems. less ratchet slap (like piston slap in a loose cylinder w/ a short skirt piston). though a heavier ratchet will contribute more to 'float'.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Hello,
I have run into this same issue and documented in my review of the hubs and a more in-depth analysis on a YouTube video:
Review here: Review: DT Swiss 240 EXP hubs (mtbengineer.blogspot.com) 
Video: DT Swiss 240 EXP skipping / disengaging - bad design? - YouTube

The problems I have found, though without 100% measurements:

The spring diameter is too big, and the ratchet will bind on the spring. I will try and chamfer the ratchet to see if this helps
The freehub splines are manufactured a tad loose, which allows the ratchet ring to move in the splines just enough to tilt and cause the "piston slap" phenomena described above
Greasing the parts properly helps, but does not solve the issue due to the dimensional problems
The spring is too weak

I bought my hub from Bike24, and have received a new ratchet and spring under warranty, but the problem continues. I have since requested more information from DT and a statement on the problem, and will most definitely request a new freehub under warranty. My problems also started on the first ride, and continuously got worse up to a point where the hub will disengage completely several times during a ride and I need to pull the cassette and freehub like the OP.

VERY disappointed with EXP!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

If anyone knows about any official comments from DTSwiss regarding this issue, please comment...
On my side, still waiting for the return of the deffective hub... 
New one has 1700km and for now it works flawless...


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## Lakner (Feb 6, 2021)

I have just talked to dtswiss import in Denmark.
They will change ratchet and body. They have seen it it before and it is especially in cold weather. They now there's a issue and dtswiss is working on it.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Update:
Got my refurbished HUB today from DTSwiss. 3 months after it completely stopped working (in fact it would be 3 months tomorrow). 
Hopefully the parts they changed inside will fix the issue for good.
Unfortunately as they did not replace it for a new hub, I can only sell this “nearly new hub” as a used one...

Summary: if the hub I have currently installed fails once, I will order a Chris King set.
Hopefully this will not be the case 💰


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Serious question, can you pop the body off and take a picture of the grease in front of and behind the spline ratchet?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Sorry FactoryMatt, just got the Hub from DTSwiss - will sell it as it is, still packed; do not want to touch it. I imagine of course that it has the correct lub as all new hubs...
I hope the problem is not any minor change in the lub viscosity or quantity; because with the temperature differences and the km ridden, the engaging issue would be very likely to return.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I’m working on testing a small diy modification to my spare ratchet, but so far it looks promising with no skipping at -6 and about 100km ridden.

Based on my findings the problem is the moving ratchet binding with the spring, which makes it sit at a slight angle and get caught in the freehub body splines. This is caused by 2 issues:
1.) The tolerance between the moving ratchet and freehub body interface is too big
2.) The spring diameter needs to be decreased, spring tension increased or the ratchet ring chamfered on the inside where the spring sits to prevent binding


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## Lfn85 (Feb 25, 2021)

Anyone noticed the freewheel Sound?
My 240 exp sometimes makes almost no noise. Other times the noise is louder. Im thinking when theres almost no Sound, could it be if the spring is too weak?
I have not had any big engagement problems with it yet. Sometimes it makes a “clonk” when it engages, but it always engages.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

I’m Curious if those with failures have 36t or 54t version.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

The sound of my damaged 240 EXP was different from the sound this new one makes.
In fact, when rolling very slowly (per example pushing by hand), the hub was almost silent. The new one always makes sound, of course lighter when rolling slowly.
If hub sound is somehow related to failure, then I would expect yours to fail... sorry.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

half_man_half_scab said:


> I'm Curious if those with failures have 36t or 54t version.


Both my old dead one and the new one are 36t. I believe that most should be 36t, as the 54t is apparently quite hard to order - in both my purchases, I could not order it, it was not even unavailable, it was "non listed"


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

half_man_half_scab said:


> I'm Curious if those with failures have 36t or 54t version.


i have a pretty new set of 240 EXP wheels from lacemine29. the frame they are to be mounted on is just now getting back from a frame repair so that gave me time to upgrade the ratchet to 54t. i should get some ride time starting next week and will report hopefully good things.


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## Chrisisism (Mar 1, 2021)

I also have this problem with my DT 240 EXP:
"
The spring diameter is too big, and the ratchet will bind on the spring.
"
Very annoying, I have had a DT 180 EXP for a year that has worked flawless, so was very surprised with this.

Will try and replace on warranty then.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I can’t say for sure, but my educated guess is that the tooth count on the ratchet, be it 36 or 54, has nothing to do with this problem.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

I guess it would be a question of if this is a manufacturing or a design issue. I would expect the 54t to be harder to manufacture and maybe there are some differences in attention to tolerances of 36 vs 54, but this is pure speculation. It would also be hard to establish trends given how few 54t there appear to be in the wild.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

? for those experiencing this problem....would you ever lose engagement mid-stroke laying down some power? or would you lose engagement after freewheeling only?


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

Lfn85 said:


> Anyone noticed the freewheel Sound?
> My 240 exp sometimes makes almost no noise. Other times the noise is louder. Im thinking when theres almost no Sound, could it be if the spring is too weak?
> I have not had any big engagement problems with it yet. Sometimes it makes a "clonk" when it engages, but it always engages.


i got out on my first ride with these hubs and 54t ratchets. i also did notice how sometimes there'd be almost no audible sound from hub when free wheeling. it was alittle disconcerting. i may have put a little too much grease. but i didn't have the engagement issue....


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

The sound on mine also changes but I think it’s due to the frequency of the ratcheting ie. speed and the grease’s dampening characteristics. So far I have not noticed a correlation between the sound and engagement problems, though with my modified spare rarchet ring I have not had engagement issues anyway.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

jct said:


> ? for those experiencing this problem....would you ever lose engagement mid-stroke laying down some power? or would you lose engagement after freewheeling only?


My problems were always after freewheeling. Never had a lost of engagement while pedalling.
It seems that LAKNER (see previous posts) had an issue during a gear shift, so I imagine while pedalling...
It seems to me that it's an engagement issue, not a disengagement issue...


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## Chrisisism (Mar 1, 2021)

Chrisisism said:


> I also have this problem with my DT 240 EXP:
> "
> The spring diameter is too big, and the ratchet will bind on the spring.
> "
> ...


Now it happened to my dt 180 exp too, cold day out


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Just for the record, my issues occurred during Autumn in Portugal, so temperatures between 10ºC and 20ºC.. so definitely not temperature related. Actually the day it “died” it was a nice warm and sunny Autumn day.


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

This Thread makes me Sad. Always considered DT hubs as one of the most dependable. Even if/when they figure this out, it will be a stain for some time.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Enoch said:


> This Thread makes me Sad. Always considered DT hubs as one of the most dependable. Even if/when they figure this out, it will be a stain for some time.


Enoch, fully agree!
It also makes me sad as I chose DTswiss for its known reliability... 
for some of us, besides sadness there are also costs involved 😟


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## Joechanhs (Mar 10, 2021)

Yes, I have exactly the same problem with my wheelset too. Hopefully the retailer can help me claim my warranty and awaiting updates. Fingers crossed. Meanwhile I bought a pair of spare wheels to use. Money wasted and inconvenience caused .


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

A friend just bought a new set of XMC1501 wheels and his EXP started skipping on the third ride! My modified ratchet has now been working OK for ~200km with only maybe a quarter turn skip once a ride if it’s below 0, and no problems if it’s warmer.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

i have about 80 miles over 3 rides on my SS 240exp 54t. nothing yet.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Ciao a tutti
Ti scrivo dall'Italia
Ho acquistato il nuovo hub exp Dt Swiss 240
Anch'io ho lo stesso problema!
Ho appena fatto 70 km e la frizione slitta,
Ho provato a tirare la molla ma niente!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

250Biland said:


> Ciao a tutti
> Ti scrivo dall'Italia
> Ho acquistato il nuovo hub exp Dt Swiss 240
> Anch'io ho lo stesso problema!
> ...


mala fortuna, credo que che il stesso problema que il mio... chiede la garanzia, è meglio.
Il mio nuovo a ja fato 2350km senza problemi. 
(Scusa mio italiano)


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Maybe the project is wrong!
Much better than the old Hub with 2 springs.
I'm afraid to use this exp hub!
if the clutch slips uphill you can even get hurt! Or when you find yourself at an intersection and the clutch slips you stay in the middle with the danger of being run over!


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Penso di aver capito qual è il problema con questi 240 hub exp
C'è troppo gioco tra l'anello e il corpetto.
Quando pedali, gira e salta!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Just for the record: it seems that some of us have experienced hub engagement failing after freewheeling, that is, failure while engaging, while others seem to experience failure during pedalling, that is, sudden disengagement.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

When I pedal I have the problem


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## Marciv1684 (Mar 14, 2021)

250Biland said:


> Ciao a tutti
> Ti scrivo dall'Italia
> Ho acquistato il nuovo hub exp Dt Swiss 240
> Anch'io ho lo stesso problema!
> ...


The same problem with my new dt swiss xrc 1501..after 500 km


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## uptightstiff (Aug 21, 2020)

Just got this experience today after being so stoked on my first real nice wheel set purchase & build! 
34 days & 230 miles in, the ratchet stopped engaging on my long ride today. Happened twice when freewheeling & once while pedaling over 50 miles. Checking in with bike shop when they open tomorrow.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

I am very angry!
I would like to report Dt Swiss! These hubs are very dangerous to use, you can fall, or you can get stuck in the middle of the road, and get hit!
How can Dt Swiss make us pay 390 euros for these dangerous hubs?
I should have bought more reliable and much smoother 50 euro Chinese hubs!


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Man, got talked into the new EXP hub over the old one for a new wheelset bc it is supposed to be lighter. As far as I can tell it is within 10grams of the old hub and no there is this issue. What has DT been doing for you folks? New ratchet ans spring?


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I got a new moving ratchet and spring and they did nothing. Next is sending my entire wheel back to them for “warranty inspection”, but I’m not hopeful I will get a working hub back.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Today I wrote an email to DtSwiss referring this thread and suggesting an official answer/statement regarding this engagement/disengagements issues.
Let’s see if we get an answer.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

Nande said:


> Today I wrote an email to DtSwiss referring this thread and suggesting an official answer/statement regarding this engagement/disengagements issues.
> Let's see if we get an answer.


obrigado!


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Man what a mess. So glad I read this page before I built my new wheels. Seems like an epic design flaw.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

This is my gear
Do you see the scratches?
The gear jumps vertically


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Guardate


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

250Biland said:


> Guardate


Your hub looks like this after 70km?!

Mine, started failing at 500km and died at 1000km... but I never notice such a worn as yours! Incredible.

It makes me think - could it be the case that there are different issues with this hub?
We are assuming that there is ONE problem that is causing all our hubs to fail... maybe that is not the case and there are several problems...


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

I have to admit that I was seduced by the low weight and bomb-proof reputation of the 240. Now I'm thinking a few more grams--and a little less money--isn't a bad choice.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

I can imagine that the ones like us with engagement failures on the new EXP are a minority.
The vast majority of these hubs are probably running flawless; I myself (unfortunately) bought a 2nd hub and, with 2.436km now, is working in perfect conditions.

Nevertheless we are also a “big minority”, that is to say, the number of hubs failing seems to be too big to be considered an insignificant percentage. And it can definitely work against or for DTSwiss, depending on the attitude they will have towards their customers.

From my part, the solution they presented - refurbishing the hub - is a moderated one. They probably solved the problem (I sold that hub so...) but they did not presented me with a solution that would turn me into a fan - like contacting me for some apologize and giving me a brand new hub.

Let’s see what solutions will be presented to all of you in the near future, and if DtSwiss is willing to answer my request for a statement.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Nande said:


> I can imagine that the ones like us with engagement failures on the new EXP are a minority.
> The vast majority of these hubs are probably running flawless; I myself (unfortunately) bought a 2nd hub and, with 2.436km now, is working in perfect conditions.
> 
> Nevertheless we are also a "big minority", that is to say, the number of hubs failing seems to be too big to be considered an insignificant percentage. And it can definitely work against or for DTSwiss, depending on the attitude they will have towards their customers.
> ...


When you sold the refurbished hub did you advise the buyer of its history so they can possibly update us with information?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

... actually did not suggest that he could update me with the hub performance in the future... I imagine that, if it is the case that there will be a problem, he would let me know... eventually asking for some original invoice or something...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Nande said:


> ... actually did not suggest that he could update me with the hub performance in the future... I imagine that, if it is the case that there will be a problem, he would let me know... eventually asking for some original invoice or something...


That info would be nice to go along w what DT Swiss says


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

DT is aware of this thread.

The problems were from early manufacturing batches. Solved in production months ago.

The vast majority of these hubs have been flawless.

Which doesn't make those of you having issues feel any better -- I get that.

I've only built a few dozen of these. Have not (yet) had anyone contact me to report a problem.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

mikesee said:


> DT is aware of this thread.
> 
> The problems were from early manufacturing batches. Solved in production months ago.
> 
> ...


Do you know since it was updated?
What year is the month?
I bought them in January


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

mikesee said:


> DT is aware of this thread.
> 
> The problems were from early manufacturing batches. Solved in production months ago.
> 
> ...


Mikesee, thank you for the information. How do you have access to that info (that DtSwiss is aware of this post)? Are you working for them/in contact with them?

If the problem is solved - we all hope it is - it would be in fact great to have an idea about the timing it was solved. 
We could make a rough estimation from the date they solved the problem + shipping + some time in stock at the shop we bought it from... so we could expect a higher or lower probability of failure.

Great news, though.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Has anyone claimed warranty for their hubs recently, and did their replacement hub fix the issue?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Just got an answer from DtSwiss to my request:
“No official answer or statement can be made. 
If I have a problem, I should contact a bike store and they would contact DTSwiss...”

A bit too late for this suggestion 🙂

Though it was a standard answer, I would expect a bit more from a non-standard company... 😟


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Nande said:


> Mikesee, thank you for the information. How do you have access to that info (that DtSwiss is aware of this post)? Are you working for them/in contact with them?
> 
> If the problem is solved - we all hope it is - it would be in fact great to have an idea about the timing it was solved.
> We could make a rough estimation from the date they solved the problem + shipping + some time in stock at the shop we bought it from... so we could expect a higher or lower probability of failure.
> ...


Mike is a professional wheel builder who used to live in Grand Junction (home of DT Swiss US) and knows the guys there on a first name basis.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Nande said:


> Just got an answer from DtSwiss to my request:
> "No official answer or statement can be made.
> If I have a problem, I should contact a bike store and they would contact DTSwiss..."
> 
> ...


Dt Swiss gave me the same answer too!
I have to go to an official store to ask for a guarantee
I have sent photos and videos of my problem, but nothing


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

250Biland said:


> Dt Swiss gave me the same answer too!
> I have to go to an official store to ask for a guarantee
> I have sent photos and videos of my problem, but nothing


That was what I did, returned the hub to the local distributor (the same shop where I bought it).
Waited 3 months for the refurbished hub under warranty.
They will not send you some parts for you to fix it; the hub needs to be sent back; they will fix it and return it.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Nande said:


> That was what I did, returned the hub to the local distributor (the same shop where I bought it).
> Waited 3 months for the refurbished hub under warranty.
> They will not send you some parts for you to fix it; the hub needs to be sent back; they will fix it and return it.


That's pretty terrible customer service from both the distributor and DT Swiss. I would have asked for a refund upfront from your shop. Your country may have laws on these type of things.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I can't speak for them. I am as frustrated as anyone else that they won't speak for themselves here.

I've known -- and ridden with -- a few of the people inside that building for 20+ years. When they tell me the problems were in an early batch, and that they have since been remedied, I take them at their word.

That's all the info I can share at this point, other than to say that I am still building with 240EXP hubs daily, and have yet to have a customer of mine reach out to say they've experienced anything but unfettered joy with their new hubs.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Is there a way to tell if a 240 hub is part of the old production run? E.g. a serial number or something similar on it?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

jas0nt said:


> That's pretty terrible customer service from both the distributor and DT Swiss. I would have asked for a refund upfront from your shop. Your country may have laws on these type of things.


Of course I asked for a refund upfront, but that's not the warranty deal - defective parts are sent back to repair or repaired at the distributor if that is the agreement with the factory.
Hopefully only the first dozens got defective hubs as Mike says; unfortunately I am among them...

I will be quite satisfied in the end if my new hub will continue to work flawless.
The attitude that DtSwiss had in my case will probably make me buy another brand of hubs in my next purchase...
An excellent product with a regular customer service is worse than a regular product with an excellent customer service.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

I'd be interested to know how a buyer can be assured their 240 EXPs are part of the new production batches with this problem fixed. How do we as buyers avoid getting a faulty hub?


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I can't speak for them. I am as frustrated as anyone else that they won't speak for themselves here.
> 
> I've known -- and ridden with -- a few of the people inside that building for 20+ years. When they tell me the problems were in an early batch, and that they have since been remedied, I take them at their word.
> 
> That's all the info I can share at this point, other than to say that I am still building with 240EXP hubs daily, and have yet to have a customer of mine reach out to say they've experienced anything but unfettered joy with their new hubs.


Mike did they reveal exactly what part is causing the problem?


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Il venditore dove ho acquistato i mozzi Dt Swiss 240 exp non vuole darmi garanzia, è sostituire pezzi io li ho acquistati su aliexpress per risparmiare 30 euro sicuro che non avrei avuto bisogno della garanzia! Vorrei spaccare questi mozzi! ora non so che fare acquistare a mie spese kit exp di 54t che costa 130 euro ma non ho certezze che il problema l'ho risolvo, oppure comprare Mozzo cinese da 50 euro. Cosa mi consigliate di fare?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

250Biland, I have no idea but doubt that an upgrade kit for 54t will solve your engagement issue.
You should buy from some shop/mechanic that knows this problem the correct parts.
Best guess would be your local DtSwiss dealer - they can order a fixing kit that you will have to buy instead of having it under warranty. Did you contact them already? That’s what I would do.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

[QUOTE = "Nande, post: 15253025, membro: 874327"]
250Biland, non ho idea ma dubito che un kit di aggiornamento per 54t risolverà il tuo problema di fidanzamento.
Dovresti acquistare da qualche negozio / meccanico che conosce questo problema le parti corrette.
La migliore ipotesi sarebbe il tuo rivenditore DtSwiss locale: può ordinare un kit di fissaggio che dovrai acquistare invece di averlo in garanzia. Li hai già contattati? Questo è quello che farei.
[/CITAZIONE]
Si ho contattato Dt Swiss mi hanno detto di rivolgermi al distributore ufficiale della mia città, che secondo loro, sarebbe meglio cambiare tutto gli ingranaggi exp anche il corpetto, ma io non ho fattura! Forse aliexpress darà un piccolo rimborso di 80 euro, io non so se acquistare con questi soldi un mozzo cinese oppure rischiare comprando questo .....


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

But you can go to your local distributor and pay them to repair the hub; you do not need an invoice for that... right?!
It seems the best way.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Nande said:


> But you can go to your local distributor and pay them to repair the hub; you do not need an invoice for that... right?!
> It seems the best way.


Non mi fido più di questo Mozzo exp, chi mi assicura che il problema non si ripresenterà più avanti? Magari dopo 600 km
il distributore locale dove avrei ordinato i pezzi, potrebbe dire che è colpa mia perché non ho fatto la manutenzione corretta!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Yes, you are right!
There is a possibility that the problem happen again.
If, like me, you imagine that that probability is very low, then you may want to continue to invest in your DtSwiss hub. Pay the repair and hope problem will disappear.
Alternative is buying a hub from another manufacturer, and you consider the money spend on the DtSwiss as lost...
There is a third option: you pay for the repair and sell the repaired hub, and still buy another hub from another manufacturer.

Decision is up to you, in fact.
I took the chance with DtSwiss - only time will tell if I did the right choice. Presently after 2541km, all is well.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Ma te l'hai fatto riparare?


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## pc_vagabond (Mar 21, 2021)

I bought a new Pivot Switchblade with the upgraded wheel set - DT Swiss XMC1501 w/ DT Swiss 240 hub EXP 36t Star Ratchet. If I had only known the pain of the 240 EXP before hand I would have stayed with the XM1700/350 combo. When I first got my bike the freewheel made no noise at all. I thought this was possibly by design. At around 50 miles of riding, I experienced the disengagement issue. Discussed with dealer, they said DT Swiss had a batch go out with too much grease, hence no freewheel noise. I opened it up and found a lot of grease. The spring was completely covered and the grease had kind of a shiny metallic blue color to it, different than the red DT Swiss special grease. After cleaning the hub, I could then ride problem free for about 99% of the ride but continued to experience the disengagement when going quickly from downhill to climb, one of the worst times to have it happen. Now that I know the problem, when it occurs, I smack the side of the hub and the ratchet unsticks most of the time and re-engages. What a horrible experience on a brand new bike and set of wheels. Man how I want my old bike's I9 hubs back.

The dealer I bought from said even thought it's a brand new bike, I would have to go through DT Swiss to get it fixed and that could take weeks. In the mean time I'd be without a ridable bike. He suggested slightly pulling the spring and extending it a couple millimeters. I did that, which didn't help. At the same time I purchased DT Swiss Special Grease. When I received it, I was surprised to see it came with two sets of ratchet and spring. On closer inspection I noticed they were different. The ratchets have less of an opening on the back side and the springs go from wider to narrower. I'm guessing this is the older version of the ratchet and spring, I'm sure someone here knows. I'm desperate so I lightly greased them and replaced the original ratchet and spring. Everything seems much better. The sound the free hub makes seems better. I've only put 25 (hard) miles on it so far and haven't had an issue. Crossing my fingers.

Anyone see any potential problems using the different ratchet and spring?


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

[QUOTE = "pc_vagabond, post: 15253980, membro: 907572"]
Ho acquistato un nuovo Pivot Switchblade con il set di ruote aggiornato: DT Swiss XMC1501 con mozzo DT Swiss 240 EXP 36t Star Ratchet. Se solo avessi saputo il dolore del 240 EXP prima della mano sarei rimasto con il combo XM1700 / 350. Quando ho preso la mia bici per la prima volta, la ruota libera non ha fatto alcun rumore. Ho pensato che fosse possibile in base alla progettazione. A circa 50 miglia di guida, ho riscontrato il problema del disimpegno. Discutendo con il rivenditore, hanno detto che DT Swiss aveva un lotto uscito con troppo grasso, quindi nessun rumore della ruota libera. L'ho aperto e ho trovato molto grasso. La molla era completamente ricoperta e il grasso aveva un colore blu metallizzato brillante, diverso dal grasso speciale rosso DT Swiss. Dopo aver pulito il mozzo, ho potuto quindi guidare senza problemi per circa il 99% della corsa, ma ho continuato a sperimentare il disimpegno andando rapidamente da discesa a salita, uno dei momenti peggiori in cui accada. Ora che conosco il problema, quando si verifica, schiaffo il lato del mozzo e il cricchetto si sblocca la maggior parte del tempo e si reinnesta. Che esperienza orribile su una bici nuova di zecca e un set di ruote. Amico, come voglio indietro i mozzi I9 della mia vecchia bici.

Il rivenditore da cui ho acquistato ha detto che anche se pensava che fosse una bici nuova di zecca, avrei dovuto passare attraverso DT Swiss per farlo riparare e questo potrebbe richiedere settimane. Nel frattempo sarei senza una bici cavalcabile. Suggerì di tirare leggermente la molla e allungarla di un paio di millimetri. L'ho fatto, il che non ha aiutato. Allo stesso tempo ho acquistato DT Swiss Special Grease. Quando l'ho ricevuto, sono stato sorpreso di vedere che è arrivato con due set di cricchetto e molla. Un esame più attento I cricchetti hanno meno apertura sul lato posteriore e le molle vanno da più larghe a più strette. Immagino che questa sia la versione precedente del cricchetto e della molla, sono sicuro che qualcuno qui lo sa. Sono disperato quindi li ho leggermente unti e ho sostituito il cricchetto e la molla originali. Sembra tutto molto meglio. Il suono emesso dall'hub gratuito sembra migliore. Finora ho percorso solo 25 miglia (difficili) e non ho avuto problemi. Incrocio le dita.

Qualcuno vede potenziali problemi con il diverso cricchetto e molla?

[ATTACH = full] 1922317 [/ ATTACH] [ATTACH = full] 1922319 [/ ATTACH]
[/ CITAZIONE] io credo che il problema sia il corpetto, ha troppo gioco, e la rondella dentata tente a bloccarsi storta [/ QUOTE]


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

*Pc-vagabond*, I strongly suggest you send the wheel back to repair. My hub took 3 months 
Maybe you can borrow a used wheel for a few weeks; or even buy a cheap one just to cover the gap. Sometimes bike stores have old wheels that they can lent you.
Fiddling around with your new hub will probably cause you to loose warranty.

*250Biland*, I gave the damaged hub to my local distributor. 
He sent it back to Dtswiss under warranty.
I immediately bought another new 240EXP hub and had it assembled in my bike so I could keep riding.
Waited 3 months for the repaired hub.
Sold it to get most of my money back.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

pc_vagabond said:


> I bought a new Pivot Switchblade with the upgraded wheel set - DT Swiss XMC1501 w/ DT Swiss 240 hub EXP 36t Star Ratchet. If I had only known the pain of the 240 EXP before hand I would have stayed with the XM1700/350 combo. When I first got my bike the freewheel made no noise at all. I thought this was possibly by design. At around 50 miles of riding, I experienced the disengagement issue. Discussed with dealer, they said DT Swiss had a batch go out with too much grease, hence no freewheel noise. I opened it up and found a lot of grease. The spring was completely covered and the grease had kind of a shiny metallic blue color to it, different than the red DT Swiss special grease. After cleaning the hub, I could then ride problem free for about 99% of the ride but continued to experience the disengagement when going quickly from downhill to climb, one of the worst times to have it happen. Now that I know the problem, when it occurs, I smack the side of the hub and the ratchet unsticks most of the time and re-engages. What a horrible experience on a brand new bike and set of wheels. Man how I want my old bike's I9 hubs back.
> 
> The dealer I bought from said even thought it's a brand new bike, I would have to go through DT Swiss to get it fixed and that could take weeks. In the mean time I'd be without a ridable bike. He suggested slightly pulling the spring and extending it a couple millimeters. I did that, which didn't help. At the same time I purchased DT Swiss Special Grease. When I received it, I was surprised to see it came with two sets of ratchet and spring. On closer inspection I noticed they were different. The ratchets have less of an opening on the back side and the springs go from wider to narrower. I'm guessing this is the older version of the ratchet and spring, I'm sure someone here knows. I'm desperate so I lightly greased them and replaced the original ratchet and spring. Everything seems much better. The sound the free hub makes seems better. I've only put 25 (hard) miles on it so far and haven't had an issue. Crossing my fingers.
> 
> ...


I have tested the old spring and it made no difference. The set you have received is clearly for the old style hubs with 2 moving ratchet which has been proven to be a reliable system unlike the EXP.


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## Themfm (Mar 25, 2021)

Nande said:


> Hi have a set of new DTswiss 240 EXP - 1.000km up to today.
> Since they turned 500km, the rear hub engagement his giving me problems:
> every once in a while the ratchet did not engage (loose wheel feeling) and suddenly engaged again.
> Recently, when the ratchet does not engage, it just stay loose... I have to stop, disassemble the rear wheel, pull the spring and ratchet out, assemble again and ride...
> Of course I asked for a warranty replacement. Just wanted to know if I am an isolated case or if it is a known issue with the new exp?


I read most of the posts below. I have a practically brand new DT Swiss 240 ratchet EXP hub and have now experienced the same problem multiple times. In that it is brand new, I have no desire to take it apart and do any maintenance, I honestly shouldn't have to, right? I am going to have to deal with DT Swiss on warranty, but I have a set of envy wheels with the older 240s and I've never had a problem. I offer this information just to give input to the fact that the EXP perhaps does have a manufacture issue. This should not happen on a brand new set of wheels. Until I get a new hub, I won't use this wheel, as I of course cannot rely on it on the road.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

THemfm, thanks for the sharing. Hopefully, for the benefit of everybody, your new set of hubs would be on stock at the shop that sold them to you for a long time.... and would be from the earlier releases that had that problem.

If that is not the case, then the idea that this problem is now corrected is false... and this is bad for us but worse for DtSwiss...

Update from my new 240EXP hub: now with 2.682km and working flawless.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

ho deciso, sostituiro il Mozzo posteriore con un'altro! Non ne voglio più sapere di Dt Swiss, non comprerò più nulla da loro! I loro ricambi costano molto , e durano pochissimo io faccio molti km con la bici non voglio rimanere a piedi per la seconda volta a 70km da casa come mi è già successo! Facendo la figura dell'idiota! ho buttato 400 euro per questi mozzi! Non so perché li ho voluti comprare! Mi sono rivolto ad un rivenditore Dt swiss e lui mi ha detto che non sa nulla di questi problemi, mai avuti con nessuno, addio Dt Swiss!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

It’s your decision of course to buy another brand.I did not do it and hope that I will not regret it in the future.

In your case, I suggest you repair your Dtswiss hub so you can sell it as a refurbished one. You will get most of your money back... seems like the best solution in my opinion.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

[QUOTE = "Nande, post: 15259902, membro: 874327"]
Ovviamente è una tua decisione quella di acquistare un altro marchio, io non l'ho fatto e spero che non me ne pentirò in futuro.

Nel tuo caso, ti suggerisco di riparare il tuo hub Dtswiss in modo da poterlo vendere come ricondizionato. Avrai indietro la maggior parte dei tuoi soldi ... sembra la soluzione migliore secondo me.
[/CITAZIONE]
A quanto potrei vendere il Mozzo riparato?


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

250Biland said:


> I am very angry!
> I would like to report Dt Swiss! These hubs are very dangerous to use, you can fall, or you can get stuck in the middle of the road, and get hit!
> How can Dt Swiss make us pay 390 euros for these dangerous hubs?
> I should have bought more reliable and much smoother 50 euro Chinese hubs!


No, you should have bought the proven 240s version. Great hub.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

There is no list price for a refurbished hub... 
In theory you should be able to sell it for 20% to 25% less than a new one:
It has not many km.
You have immediate delivery.


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## Themfm (Mar 25, 2021)

Nande said:


> THemfm, thanks for the sharing. Hopefully, for the benefit of everybody, your new set of hubs would be on stock at the shop that sold them to you for a long time.... and would be from the earlier releases that had that problem.
> 
> If that is not the case, then the idea that this problem is now corrected is false... and this is bad for us but worse for DtSwiss...
> 
> Update from my new 240EXP hub: now with 2.682km and working flawless.


The hubs came with a brand new set of wheels from light bicycle in China. They are now referring me to DT SWISS. just got these wheels in December 2020 from them so who knows how long the hubs were in the inventory of light bicycle before they assembled my wheels. Right now I am a bit frustrated but I guess I will understand this will take a bit of effort to figure out. One of the risks in buying from an overseas manufacturer. I shouldn't be, but at the moment I feel like I'm in the middle between light bicycle who I bought the entire wheel set from, and DT Swiss.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Themfm said:


> The hubs came with a brand new set of wheels from light bicycle in China. They are now referring me to DT SWISS. just got these wheels in December 2020 from them so who knows how long the hubs were in the inventory of light bicycle before they assembled my wheels. Right now I am a bit frustrated but I guess I will understand this will take a bit of effort to figure out. One of the risks in buying from an overseas manufacturer. I shouldn't be, but at the moment I feel like I'm in the middle between light bicycle who I bought the entire wheel set from, and DT Swiss.


You shouldn't have to deal with DT Swiss. You should deal with Light Bicycle.

If no luck, hopefully you paid with credit card or Paypal and can get a chargeback.


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## Marciv1684 (Mar 14, 2021)

Hi to all
I returned my XRC 1501 spline to DT Swiss in warranty. They Service center answered quickly and the warranty service supported me 100% till now
Basically DT told me that they had the problem with the first lot of the ratchet system and now the problem is solved. I should receive my wheel this week, the guy I spoke of techincal center told me that they replaced the ratchet system with the spring and another small part (I don't know the translation in english: in italian is "Corpetto").
The work on DT Swiss side is very quick, when they receive the wheel they will do the work very fast and they will shipp back the wheel the same day.
So I suggest in case of this issue to contact the DT Swiss Service center and Don't try to touch anything inside the Hub since the issue is on the Ratchet and the only solution is to manage the issue with DT Swiss


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## Marciv1684 (Mar 14, 2021)

Marciv1684 said:


> Hi to all
> I returned my XRC 1501 spline to DT Swiss in warranty. They Service center answered quickly and the warranty service supported me 100% till now
> Basically DT told me that they had the problem with the first lot of the ratchet system and now the problem is solved. I should receive my wheel this week, the guy I spoke of techincal center told me that they replaced the ratchet system with the spring and another small part (I don't know the translation in english: in italian is "Corpetto").
> The work on DT Swiss side is very quick, when they receive the wheel they will do the work very fast and they will shipp back the wheel the same day.
> So I suggest in case of this issue to contact the DT Swiss Service center and Don't try to touch anything inside the Hub since the issue is on the Ratchet and the only solution is to manage the issue with DT Swiss


just a small clarification: you have to contact your vendor and manage the shipping of the wheel with the vendor, DT Swiss doesn't manage the warranty directly with the final customer


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

so far 200km+ singlespeed riding with a 54t ratchet and no problems.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Some feedback from private messages I got lately:
1. It seems that in many cases DtSwiss service was extremely quick to solve the issue; so eventually my 3 months waiting was an exception. It will probably depend mostly on your country.
2. Someone that bought an hub from a later production batch also had some engagement issue; I do not know what to think anymore - on the one hand I want to believe that a company like DtSwiss would solve an issue like this promptly; on the other hand it could be the case that this was not an issue with most hubs from a first batch but with some hubs from several batches scattered in time...


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Nande said:


> later production batch


Curious - what do you define as a 'later production batch'?

I think it is more likely some wheel builders or stores that just have old inventory of affected hubs. And DT Swiss not doing a recall or notifying them they have affected hubs meaning the customer inadvertently gets it.

The only way you can tell a hub is a 'later production batch' is if there's a manufacturing date stamp on the hub or box or there's a serial number you can somehow check to date of manufacture. AFAIK there is a serial number but it doesn't tell you if your hub is produced in March 2021 or June 2020...


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## Themfm (Mar 25, 2021)

Marciv1684 said:


> just a small clarification: you have to contact your vendor and manage the shipping of the wheel with the vendor, DT Swiss doesn't manage the warranty directly with the final customer


Update: My experience so far: I did contact Swiss directly and they were VERY responsive! Within an hour of my email explaining the issue, they responded in an email with an RA number, a UPS shipping label, and state they will provide a full warranty with a complete rebuild or new hub, whichever is necessary. Also, state a short turnaround. Sounds almost too good to be true, but I am sending the wheel off tomorrow. I will come back to report m actual experience. this is what I would expect from a top-name manufacturer.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

jas0nt said:


> Curious - what do you define as a 'later production batch'?
> 
> I think it is more likely some wheel builders or stores that just have old inventory of affected hubs. And DT Swiss not doing a recall or notifying them they have affected hubs meaning the customer inadvertently gets it.
> 
> The only way you can tell a hub is a 'later production batch' is if there's a manufacturing date stamp on the hub or box or there's a serial number you can somehow check to date of manufacture. AFAIK there is a serial number but it doesn't tell you if your hub is produced in March 2021 or June 2020...


Good question; my reasoning:
I bought a hub from the first order that the Portuguese dealer received (the one I got problems with)
Dealer ran out of stock.
This new hub I am talking about was bought a few months after, when new stock came in. 
In theory, it should not be from the same earlier production batch.
But you are right, there is no way to be 100% sure. Manufacturing date is not written on it.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I have a set of limited production oil slick 240 EXPs on hold right now. Was deciding between them and Hydras. Glad I stumbled across this thread. I will leave the 240s for someone else to stress over, and save a whack of cash in the process.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I have a set of limited production oil slick 240 EXPs on hold right now. Was deciding between them and Hydras. Glad I stumbled across this thread. I will leave the 240s for someone else to stress over, and save a whack of cash in the process.


We all make our own choices based on what is important to us. I toured their plant some years ago. I have been in hundreds of Factories but DT stands out from the rest. A most remarkable Company. I have been using 240s for quite awhile. They just work and so easy to service. Not great when a new product goes south for some but no doubt that will be handled correctly from this Company.....absolutely no company is perfect but the test is how they handle the issue.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Pedalon2018 said:


> We all make our own choices based on what is important to us. I toured their plant some years ago. I have been in hundreds of Factories but DT stands out from the rest. A most remarkable Company. I have been using 240s for quite awhile. They just work and so easy to service. Not great when a new product goes south for some but no doubt that will be handled correctly from this Company.....absolutely no company is perfect but the test is how they handle the issue.


I have 240s and 350s on all my bikes. I have run nothing but DT for some time now. I have been interested in trying a set of Hydras. I don't need any risk right now with a set of hubs, especially during COVID.

I gave up on Oakley for a warranty claim I tried to make during COVID. I have been on hold for an hour and a half too many times with too many companies.

This thread was a message from God.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I have 240s and 350s on all my bikes. I have run nothing but DT for some time now. I have been interested in trying a set of Hydras. I don't need any risk right now with a set of hubs, especially during COVID.
> 
> I gave up on Oakley for a warranty claim I tried to make during COVID. I have been on hold for an hour and a half too many times with too many companies.
> 
> This thread was a message from God.


Indeed it is. What shop were those hubs at? I have a build that I really want a set of those for and would try to scoop them.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I wish I could confirm whether these ones were manufactured after the initial issue was addressed. I don’t suppose anyone has any insight on that?

Does anyone know whether the limited production oil slicks began production after the initial issue was addressed? If not, does anyone have any serial number info?

I haven’t totally given up the dream quite yet...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I wish I could confirm whether these ones were manufactured after the initial issue was addressed. I don't suppose anyone has any insight on that?
> 
> Does anyone know whether the limited production oil slicks began production after the initial issue was addressed? If not, does anyone have any serial number info?
> 
> I haven't totally given up the dream quite yet...


Stick with your gut feel. This is a god message. Don't touch them, let me repent and deal with the evil oil slick hubs that even though DT will take care of you even if there is a problem.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

006_007 said:


> Stick with your gut feel. This is a god message. Don't touch them, let me repent and deal with the evil oil slick hubs that even though DT will take care of you even if there is a problem.


Looks like these might have a recent first production run date. Just confirming that now. How about I post pics once I lock things down? Laced to some nice Union rims...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Looks like these might have a recent first production run date. Just confirming that now. How about I post pics once I lock things down? Laced to some nice Union rims...


Ya better post pics. That would look pretty damn fine.


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## JMC2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Nande said:


> Hi have a set of new DTswiss 240 EXP - 1.000km up to today.
> Since they turned 500km, the rear hub engagement his giving me problems:
> every once in a while the ratchet did not engage (loose wheel feeling) and suddenly engaged again.
> Recently, when the ratchet does not engage, it just stay loose... I have to stop, disassemble the rear wheel, pull the spring and ratchet out, assemble again and ride...
> Of course I asked for a warranty replacement. Just wanted to know if I am an isolated case or if it is a known issue with the new exp?


Hi Nande

I have the exact same problem. And we are talking about non engagement on the NEW Swiss DT 240 EXP ratchet rear hub. The issue is in the new design. The old design used 2 springs and 2 moving engagement ratchets, EXP has only 1 spring and 1 moving ratchet. The moving ratchet can get stuck in the freehub body, seals, teeth misaligned too much thick grease, etc. We have tried more grease, less grease, thicker and thinner grease and oils, but it still can get stuck. Hopefully, DT Swiss is watching and working on a fix. I have not heard of a recall, but unexpected freewheeling is not a good thing, on the road, trail or anywhere else.

I do not know a work around, perhaps a meaner stronger spring, but difficult to find. Diagram below part# 9 Loose Ratchet sticks in the freehub body and will not engage the fixed Threaded ratchet.










If anyone has any really good ideas on how to work around, please respond.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Short of returning it to DT Swiss under warranty, I don't see how one can fix it with any degree of ongoing confidence or reliability.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

You have me scared again.

That said, I really have to wonder whether the problems set out in this thread are isolated issues. There have been thousands of these hubs sold. The 240 has historically been one of the most rock solid hubs ever. Could they really have taken one step forward and three backwards? All this seems a little bizarre to me.

This is DT Swiss we are talking about here. Not Sick Bicycle Company.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mtnbkrmike said:


> You have me scared again.
> 
> That said, I really have to wonder whether the problems set out in this thread are isolated issues. There have been thousands of these hubs sold. The 240 has historically been one of the most rock solid hubs ever. Could they really have taken one step forward and three backwards? All this seems a little bizarre to me.
> 
> This is DT Swiss we are talking about here. Not Sick Bicycle Company.


PM MikeSee.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Come dicevo io, è sbagliato il progetto! 
Una solo parte in mivim


JMC2 said:


> Hi Nande
> 
> I have the exact same problem. And we are talking about non engagement on the NEW Swiss DT 240 EXP ratchet rear hub. The issue is in the new design. The old design used 2 springs and 2 moving engagement ratchets, EXP has only 1 spring and 1 moving ratchet. The moving ratchet can get stuck in the freehub body, seals, teeth misaligned too much thick grease, etc. We have tried more grease, less grease, thicker and thinner grease and oils, but it still can get stuck. Hopefully, DT Swiss is watching and working on a fix. I have not heard of a recall, but unexpected freewheeling is not a good thing, on the road, trail or anywhere else.
> 
> ...


Come dicevo io, è sbagliato il progetto! 
Anche se funziona c'è pericolo che si ripresenti il problema perché le parti si consumano e si ricrea un gioco eccessivo! Con il rischio che si blocchi di nuovo.ho montato una molla più dura ma non serve a nulla si blocca ugualmente, poi gli ingranaggi si consumano molto più velocemente durerebbero 1/5!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Here's the problem with saying "it's a bad design".

It works flawlessly on the 180s I've ridden (XRC 1200, XMC 1200, Roval Control SL 29). So well that I just ordered myself a set of XMC 1200s. 

I'm guessing it was simply an out of spec batch/run of hubs that somehow slipped through QC.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Le Duke said:


> Here's the problem with saying "it's a bad design".
> 
> It works flawlessly on the 180s I've ridden (XRC 1200, XMC 1200, Roval Control SL 29). So well that I just ordered myself a set of XMC 1200s.
> 
> I'm guessing it was simply an out of spec batch/run of hubs that somehow slipped through QC.


180 EXP and 180S are completely different designs.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jas0nt said:


> 180 EXP and 180S are completely different designs.


What I mean to say, and I attempted to imply, was that I had used multiple 180 hubs. 180s, not 180Ss. The 180s (plural) that came on the XMC 1200, XRC 1200 and the Specialized wheels I rode are all EXP.

Again: All flawless.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chrisisism (Mar 1, 2021)

Le Duke said:


> What I mean to say, and I attempted to imply, was that I had used multiple 180 hubs. 180s, not 180Ss. The 180s (plural) that came on the XMC 1200, XRC 1200 and the Specialized wheels I rode are all EXP.
> 
> Again: All flawless.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have the issue on my DT 180 EXP hub


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Chrisisism said:


> I have the issue on my DT 180 EXP hub


Addirittura il top dei mozzi ha lo stesso problema?!!!


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## Peter1313 (Apr 10, 2021)

Chrisisism said:


> I have the issue on my DT 180 EXP hub


Me too, just took my 180 exp back to the local Singapore DTSwiss distributor. Hopefully they don't want the wheel back in Europe. Might need a second bike!


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## Chrisisism (Mar 1, 2021)

Peter1313 said:


> Me too, just took my 180 exp back to the local Singapore DTSwiss distributor. Hopefully they don't want the wheel back in Europe. Might need a second bike!


DT Swiss wanted both my DT180 EXP wheelset and my DT 240 EXP wheelset sent to them, so back on my old and trusty DT 350 wheels for now. Swapping those between bikes, so hopefully this will not take too long


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## joeliolio (Apr 10, 2021)

Just adding my tale of woe to this thread. I have been running a set of XMC1200 wheels on a YT Izzo Pro Race that I received in early Feb 21 (having ordered it in September 20!). I've already put about 750km on them but the disengagement issue only struck for the first time 2 days ago. The Izzo is my first new trail bike in over a decade so had no idea about this new freehub tech and was very lucky to have a friend with me to investigate and try to fix the issue trail side, otherwise I would've been stuck miles from anywhere with no drive. Was also very lucky not to seriously hurt myself as was riding fast and steep technical trails at the time. Smacked my knee heavily on the handlebar though and took a load of skin off the back of my calf with the pedal as I wrestled the bike to a halt. This is an insanely dangerous thing for a hub to do and I'm really disappointed that such a hugely expensive set of wheels is trying to kill me. Upon removing the cassette it looked as though too much grease on the ratchet, spring, etc so we gave it a bit of a clean and reassembled. Was ok for a while but made riding massively sketchy, not knowing if and when the hub would disengage. It happened again at a slightly lower speed than the first time so was just able to collect it before doing any further damage to myself. We removed as much grease as we could from the ratchet surfaces the second time we had a look inside and it seemed to improve but would still disengage momentarily every now and then during the rest of the ride, but seemed to be fixable by just back pedalling a couple of rotations. The noise level when freewheeling went up a notch or three though so it at least felt like the thing wouldn't disengage again. Still wasn't able to ride with any confidence though. Went out again yesterday and it disengaged again at the start of a fast and technical trail - I smacked the same knee on the handlebar again, which hurt like hell, but fortunately I managed just about not to crash horribly again. After the ride, I bumped into a guy who worked for the local bike shop where I was riding and was chatting to him about my bike and when I told him about the trouble I'd had he said the number of people who he'd spoken to who'd experienced the same problem with this ratchet exp system was easily now into double figures. This definitely sounds to me like there must either be a fundamental issue with the design, or some very specific assembly/regular maintenance requirements that need to be followed for the freehub to work correctly 100% of the time, like the right type of lubrication and the correct amount in the right places for example?! - if the latter is the case then surely those assembling these high end wheelsets at the DT Swiss factory know what those requirements are and should be ensuring they're observed. I will contact YT about this but I am so unhappy about it - they took 5 months to get the bike to me that was listed as 'in stock' when I paid for it back in September, and now I'm facing potentially having to send the wheels back to them or to DT Swiss and be left without a bike to ride for an indeterminate period of time


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I've read enough. I think I'm out. I don't need any unnecessary risks right now, least of all ones that are going to cost me $2k CDN. My LBS just closed its doors because of a positive COVID testing by one of its staff. There's too much noise swirling around right now. I don't need these, so why risk it? Too bad cuz those oil slick 240s were pretty killer.


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## pdlpsher1 (Apr 11, 2021)

joeliolio said:


> Just adding my tale of woe to this thread. I have been running a set of XMC1200 wheels on a YT Izzo Pro Race that I received in early Feb 21 (having ordered it in September 20!). I've already put about 750km on them but the disengagement issue only struck for the first time 2 days ago. The Izzo is my first new trail bike in over a decade so had no idea about this new freehub tech and was very lucky to have a friend with me to investigate and try to fix the issue trail side, otherwise I would've been stuck miles from anywhere with no drive. Was also very lucky not to seriously hurt myself as was riding fast and steep technical trails at the time. Smacked my knee heavily on the handlebar though and took a load of skin off the back of my calf with the pedal as I wrestled the bike to a halt. This is an insanely dangerous thing for a hub to do and I'm really disappointed that such a hugely expensive set of wheels is trying to kill me. Upon removing the cassette it looked as though too much grease on the ratchet, spring, etc so we gave it a bit of a clean and reassembled. Was ok for a while but made riding massively sketchy, not knowing if and when the hub would disengage. It happened again at a slightly lower speed than the first time so was just able to collect it before doing any further damage to myself. We removed as much grease as we could from the ratchet surfaces the second time we had a look inside and it seemed to improve but would still disengage momentarily every now and then during the rest of the ride, but seemed to be fixable by just back pedalling a couple of rotations. The noise level when freewheeling went up a notch or three though so it at least felt like the thing wouldn't disengage again. Still wasn't able to ride with any confidence though. Went out again yesterday and it disengaged again at the start of a fast and technical trail - I smacked the same knee on the handlebar again, which hurt like hell, but fortunately I managed just about not to crash horribly again. After the ride, I bumped into a guy who worked for the local bike shop where I was riding and was chatting to him about my bike and when I told him about the trouble I'd had he said the number of people who he'd spoken to who'd experienced the same problem with this ratchet exp system was easily now into double figures. This definitely sounds to me like there must either be a fundamental issue with the design, or some very specific assembly/regular maintenance requirements that need to be followed for the freehub to work correctly 100% of the time, like the right type of lubrication and the correct amount in the right places for example?! - if the latter is the case then surely those assembling these high end wheelsets at the DT Swiss factory know what those requirements are and should be ensuring they're observed. I will contact YT about this but I am so unhappy about it - they took 5 months to get the bike to me that was listed as 'in stock' when I paid for it back in September, and now I'm facing potentially having to send the wheels back to them or to DT Swiss and be left without a bike to ride for an indeterminate period of time


Hi,

I have two wheelsets with EXP hubs that I received in March. No issues yet but now I'm worried. Do you mind taking a look at your hub's serial number and post it here? You have to take the disk rotor off and the number will show right where the splines are for the disk interface. Thank you for your time. Mine is attached below.


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## pdlpsher1 (Apr 11, 2021)

Can someone confirm if DT Swiss is replacing the entire hub (hence re-lacing the wheel with existing or new spokes/nipples) or just rebuilding the hub's internals with new parts?


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## joeliolio (Apr 10, 2021)

pdlpsher1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have two wheelsets with EXP hubs that I received in March. No issues yet but now I'm worried. Do you mind taking a look at your hub's serial number and post it here? You have to take the disk rotor off and the number will show right where the splines are for the disk interface. Thank you for your time. Mine is attached below.


I will do mate but heading out for another ride now so will have to be later on. Wish me luck!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

joeliolio said:


> I will do mate but heading out for another ride now so will have to be later on. Wish me luck!


I trust you modified your riding attire until things get ironed out...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Just read through this thread. Was dead set on a set of 240 EXP hubs for my bike build last summer. At the time, talking with DT, they were out of stock. I've had older Hugi hubs from them going way back and have always loved DT, but I think I lucked out by choosing other hubs for my wheel builds. 

In reading that a lot of folks are finding that upon opening the hub there is a high amount of grease, I'm wondering two things: 

Is the grease the cause of the problem, as in it causes the spring to not push squarely on the ratchet and then over some miles it becomes a jamming issue? 

Or, is the heavy grease there from factory in hopes that it would cover up the issue in tolerances? 

I don't have these hubs, so I'm just throwing out a curiosity based on some of the comments I've read. I built my son a set of boost 350's last spring and they've been everything that I have remembered and loved about DT.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Thank you all for the feedback that enriches this post.

1. From my personal experience and from some people from the forum, putting more or less grease changes the periodicity of the disengagement but does not eliminate it.

2. DTSwiss usually does not send a new hub, they refurbish the damaged one.

3. In theory it was a first batch of hubs that had this problem... we may buy a hub today in April 2021 but it can be the case (though not likely) that it was produced early last year in that first batch. Is anyone in this thread the importer of the hub in his own country or has a very close relation to the importer? In order to try to find out if a problematic hub was order from DtSwiss (and not a wheel manufacturer that may have order the hub from DtSwiss a long time ago) in the last 6 months?!
If it is the case that one is sure that his hub was sent from DtSwiss in the last 6 months AND had issues with it, then we are sure that the problem is not solved.

I am sure that my first hub that gave origin to this thread was from a first batch. I believe that the hub I have now is from a later batch but cannot be sure...

Please comment on this only if you are REALLY sure that your hub was ordered from DtSwiss during the last 6 months

Thank you.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Another suggestion is someone takes a picture of their replaced hubs (which have no problems) alongside a problematic hub. But whether someone has both of these might be a difficult ask.

In theory it should then be easy to see any differences in the hub components.


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

pdlpsher1 said:


> Can someone confirm if DT Swiss is replacing the entire hub (hence re-lacing the wheel with existing or new spokes/nipples) or just rebuilding the hub's internals with new parts?


NO dicono solo che cambiano gli anelli dentati, e il corpetto! Ma io come già detto non mi fido, è ho già ordinato un nuovo hub di un'altra marca. Mi spiace solo aver dato i miei soldi a Dt Swiss,


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

I got this email from DT swiss. Looks like they still don't know what's going on.

Thank you for your question and for letting us know what you are seeing regarding the chatter about the EXP hubs. As you know, our goal here at DT Swiss is to be as thorough as we can be with any such potential issues with our products. Given this, we are taking this issue seriously and have assigned a central task force which are now going through all of the relevant data from all service centers globally so that we can evaluate what is happening. It is important for us to compile the data and compare it to the level of hubs out in the market, as well as the normal levels of service/warranty issues that occur on our other hub platforms from the pawl systems to the standard ratchet systems. We appreciate your patience while we complete this process.

.......................

Best regards

*TECH USA*
DT SWISS, INC

DT Swiss Inc.
2493 Industrial Blvd.
US - Grand Junction, CO 81505


Direct​ Email​[email protected]​

www.dtswiss.com
www.facebook.com/dtswissag
www.instagram.com/dtswiss


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## uptightstiff (Aug 21, 2020)

mikesee said:


> Either you didn't reassemble it correctly, or your axle/skewer isn't tight.
> 
> Or both.


Unfortunately not true. I had the same issue & was given a new hub for this known issue.


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

Yes it’s a known issue but I asked them if they knew what the cause was and that was the response I got. I just ordered a wheel set from light bicycle with dt swiss 240 exp hubs and hope I don’t get a bad set.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

uptightstiff said:


> Unfortunately not true. I had the same issue & was given a new hub for this known issue.


It seems that DtSwiss acting depends on the region; most of us got the same hub back, refurbished.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

suprteck said:


> Yes it's a known issue but I asked them if they knew what the cause was and that was the response I got. I just ordered a wheel set from light bicycle with dt swiss 240 exp hubs and hope I don't get a bad set.


The answer you got from DtSwiss is at least an interesting one. 
Portugal is managed through Spain, and from DtSwiss Spain I got the answer that they had nothing to say; i ought to contact my local store and they would handle any issue through them. 
This was the answer I go after sending an email saying:
My defective hub was already given to the local bike shop. 
I already bought a new one. 
just want to know what the problem is and if you are aware.

Strange answer ?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Update:
My new hub has 3.148km with no problem 
Learned today that the refurbished one that I sold here in Portugal is about 600km and for the moment is also ok...


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

DT Swiss’s answer doesn’t give me much confidence. Seems like a carefully worded email gone through their lawyers so that they don’t admit liability or anything is wrong.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Well I was a victim of this issue this morning. I contacted DT Swiss and they are sending me a label to ship back to them. I have a Roval Control SL wheel set that based on the paperwork provided, was hand built in Nov 2020 if that provides any indication of the vintage of the hub. I pulled off the hub body and looks like the movable ratchet (part 9 of schematic ) is wedged in similar to the posts above. 

i had minor symptoms of the hub not engaging, but it was only a minor 1/4 turn of the crank, if that. I have about 200 miles on these wheels in Arizona, dry riding.


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

suprteck said:


> I got this email from DT swiss. Looks like they still don't know what's going on.
> 
> Thank you for your question and for letting us know what you are seeing regarding the chatter about the EXP hubs. As you know, our goal here at DT Swiss is to be as thorough as we can be with any such potential issues with our products. Given this, we are taking this issue seriously and have assigned a central task force which are now going through all of the relevant data from all service centers globally so that we can evaluate what is happening. It is important for us to compile the data and compare it to the level of hubs out in the market, as well as the normal levels of service/warranty issues that occur on our other hub platforms from the pawl systems to the standard ratchet systems. We appreciate your patience while we complete this process.
> 
> ...


Update:









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

eonicks said:


> Well I was a victim of this issue this morning. I contacted DT Swiss and they are sending me a label to ship back to them. I have a Roval Control SL wheel set that based on the paperwork provided, was hand built in Nov 2020 if that provides any indication of the vintage of the hub. I pulled off the hub body and looks like the movable ratchet (part 9 of schematic ) is wedged in similar to the posts above.
> 
> i had minor symptoms of the hub not engaging, but it was only a minor 1/4 turn of the crank, if that. I have about 200 miles on these wheels in Arizona, dry riding.


Rough estimation: wheel built on November... so the hub was already in stock... let's assume it was manufactured around August/September...
Being that the case, it is definitely not a first batch problem. Even if the problem started to be solved with that first batch, it seems clear that later production batches also have some defective parts 
Not great news...


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## 250Biland (Mar 13, 2021)

Ragazzi brutte notizie ha avuto il mio stesso problema anche un mio amico di mio cugino che possiede una mtb ruote comprate ad aprile con mozzi Dt Swiss 240 exp appena montate, fatti 50 km su strada e nel bosco in una bella salita hanno cominciato ad scivolare la frizione!


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Nande said:


> Rough estimation: wheel built on November... so the hub was already in stock... let's assume it was manufactured around August/September...
> Being that the case, it is definitely not a first batch problem. Even if the problem started to be solved with that first batch, it seems clear that later production batches also have some defective parts
> Not great news...


The wheel is on the way to Colorado for the hub to be rebuilt. I should have it back next week and we'll see what the outcome is. Fingers crossed.


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## pdlpsher1 (Apr 11, 2021)

eonicks said:


> The wheel is on the way to Colorado for the hub to be rebuilt. I should have it back next week and we'll see what the outcome is. Fingers crossed.


Please report back and let us know if they replace the actual hub shell (i.e. having to rebuild the wheel with new spokes) or just rebuild the hub's internals. Thanks.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

I'd be surprised if they rebuilt the entire wheel. They're opening themselves up for liability because they wouldn't necessarily know the rim's maximum spoke tensions etc.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

jas0nt said:


> I'd be surprised if they rebuilt the entire wheel. They're opening themselves up for liability because they wouldn't necessarily know the rim's maximum spoke tensions etc.


While I don't think they'd rebuild the wheel for various reasons, this is DT Swiss we're talking about. I think they have more than a clue about spoke tension and if they needed to, have the resources to ascertain a rims kgf


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

So, if one encounters this issue trailside, I'm guessing it's easily enough resolved to get one out of the woods at least?


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## pdlpsher1 (Apr 11, 2021)

GSPChilliwack said:


> So, if one encounters this issue trailside, I'm guessing it's easily enough resolved to get one out of the woods at least?


Yeah. You have to remove the wheel, remove the cassette/freehub (easy to do by hand), and get the moving rachet unstuck. But the issue might come back again without warning. So it's probably best to get the wheel repaired as soon as possible whenever the first sign of zero/partial disengagement occurs.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Does anyone regret getting these DT Swiss hubs, based on your experiences?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

jas0nt said:


> I'd be surprised if they rebuilt the entire wheel. They're opening themselves up for liability because they wouldn't necessarily know the rim's maximum spoke tensions etc.


Uh what? There's humor in there somewhere.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Cleared2land said:


> Uh what? There's humor in there somewhere.


Think through this logically. If I sent you an unmarked carbon rim, how would you determine the maximum spoke tension for that rim?


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

jas0nt said:


> Think through this logically. If I sent you an unmarked carbon rim, how would you determine the maximum spoke tension for that rim?


Measure the tension when you get it.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Isn't that like saying an LBS should re-torque a bolt 20NM because it doesn't say on the part what the torque should be and that was the torque the customer applied?


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

pdlpsher1 said:


> Yeah. You have to remove the wheel, remove the cassette/freehub (easy to do by hand), and get the moving rachet unstuck. But the issue might come back again without warning. So it's probably best to get the wheel repaired as soon as possible whenever the first sign of zero/partial disengagement occurs.


 With my failure, there was no unsticking the ratchet trail side. It was jammed into the freehub body. My wheel will be delivered to DT Swiss tomorrow per UPS. It's worrisome that these hubs have this design issue only 200 or so miles of use.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

eonicks said:


> With my failure, there was no unsticking the ratchet trail side. It was jammed into the freehub body. My wheel will be delivered to DT Swiss tomorrow per UPS. It's worrisome that these hubs have this design issue only 200 or so miles of use.


When you say jammed, was it stuck together with the grease?


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

jas0nt said:


> When you say jammed, was it stuck together with the grease?


The ratchet that's supposed to be movable was completely lodged into the cassette/ freehub side. It's like the star ratchet material is too soft and got twisted up under normal power.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

eonicks said:


> The ratchet that's supposed to be movable was completely lodged into the cassette/ freehub side. It's like the star ratchet material is too soft and got twisted up under normal power.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

jas0nt said:


> Does anyone regret getting these DT Swiss hubs, based on your experiences?


Of course that those of us that had/have issues are not happy with it!

As it seems nevertheless to be a minor percentage of EXP users that are having problems, it is probably still a very good option to buy: one of the best hubs in the market. In my opinion an even better hub is a Chris King - but more expensive and heavier, so it's a difficult trade off as the 240 EXP is still probably the best option in quality/weight ratio.

If you ask a user that his only hub is a 240 EXP and he has to claim warranty on a part he hardly used and has to wait for the hub to get back - he will not be happy!! I was really angry when it happened to me. I am now worried as it seems to be a problem that still appears in some newer hubs.

It is, nonetheless, a problem that seems to appear in the early stages of the hub - usually within the first hundreds of km. So, a hub that would have thousands of km is probable safe; can't remember anyone complaining of a hub failing at 4.000km...

Curious question: as these hubs need to be lubricated every.... 6 to 12 months (so they say), has anyone experienced the engagement failure ONLY after a lubricating service?!


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I now have about 1000km on my chamfered ratchet and it works 98% in the cold and 100% in warm weather. No more complete disengagement ever and only the VERY occasional skip of about a quarter revolution in sub zero temps.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

I'm curious if EXP users should warranty this if they don't have the problem (yet). Maybe that problem will occur in some years, but then they don't have warranty anymore, or think it is not covered. Or it happens at the worst time. Like if you don't ride in winter, you should send it in over winter so you don't have an outage in summer. If this is a design problem, it will occur at some point.

That is why it is bad that DT doesn't reveal details on what hubs are effected, or how to recognize if the hub has the problem (short of it happening). 

For cars you can read through TSB and then find out if your car could have a problem, and have it fixed under warranty. Not every car will actually have the problem (TSB is not a recall, and manufacturer is not required to pay for repair), but you want that done before warranty is over. Manufacturers obviously want to avoid recalls for cost reasons.


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## Emax (Dec 4, 2005)

eonicks said:


> The ratchet that's supposed to be movable was completely lodged into the cassette/ freehub side. It's like the star ratchet material is too soft and got twisted up under normal power.


Doesn't it seem strange that the one moving ratchet gets pushed in by the stationary ratchet? How is that even possible - since the spring is on the freehub side? 
Is it possible that the spring is exerting an uneven force on the moving ratchet making it wedge in the grooves under certain conditions?


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## pdlpsher1 (Apr 11, 2021)

I think the drive torque causes the movable ratchet to tilt a tiny bit and causes the ratchet to get jammed inside the freehub. I don't think the spring or the spring force has anything to do with it.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

I purchased a Canyon CF8 with DT Swiss XMC1501 wheelset (240hub) back in February--and yep--have the hub failure--ratchet jams in the freehub--contacted DT Swiss--they are suppose to email a label to send wheel back. Picked up Industry Nine 1/1 Enduro S wheelset to run while the DT Swiss wheel is out of action. Like others with this issue, when it first happened I tried cleaning and re-lubing--problem still occurred. Stuff happens, its not wonderful, but it will get taken care of--then I can decide if I want to keep two wheel sets, or sell one set.


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## mkralec (Apr 21, 2021)

Just chiming in on this thread. I have the same issue. These are nearly new wheels built in March with 36T 240 EXP hubs, only have about 100km on them. No engagement at all right now.


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## Ragna (Oct 11, 2015)

This thread caused my to change my new wheelset order from 240 hubs to I9s. Thanks to all of you for coming here and sharing this. I can only imagine the problem is extremely widespread since the majority of owners probably aren't coming to mtbr to discuss. I love my 350 hubs, but DT needs to get their act together. Sounds like their communication has been a major disappointment, and it would be nice if they found a way to recall the affected ones rather than continuing to put riders through such a massive headache for a critical and high-end part.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Ragna said:


> This thread caused my to change my new wheelset order from 240 hubs to I9s. Thanks to all of you for coming here and sharing this. I can only imagine the problem is extremely widespread since the majority of owners probably aren't coming to mtbr to discuss. I love my 350 hubs, but DT needs to get their act together. Sounds like their communication has been a major disappointment, and it would be nice if they found a way to recall the affected ones rather than continuing to put riders through such a massive headache for a critical and high-end part.


I don't think they know what the problem is themselves otherwise they would issue a notice on their site.

I'm going to say sooner or later there's going to be some poor dude who's going to suffer a disastrous injury because their free hub failed at the worst possible time.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

mkralec said:


> Just chiming in on this thread. I have the same issue. These are nearly new wheels built in March with 36T 240 EXP hubs, only have about 100km on them. No engagement at all right now.


 Contact [email protected]. They should repair it for you.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Emax said:


> Doesn't it seem strange that the one moving ratchet gets pushed in by the stationary ratchet? How is that even possible - since the spring is on the freehub side?
> Is it possible that the spring is exerting an uneven force on the moving ratchet making it wedge in the grooves under certain conditions?


 Not sure but it's indeed jammed up.


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## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

I built a rear wheel with 240 EXP rear hub. No problems with the ratchet with about 600km on it but the bearing on the non-drive side is already crunchy. I am a little surprise - all my other DT Hubs live the same life and they go several thousands km without problems. Any body else with a similar issue?


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## madswulff (Apr 21, 2021)

I purchased a Canyon Exceed CF SLX9 with DT Swiss XMC1501 wheelset (240 EXP hub) last September 2020. Have riden max 15 times. And last night it had the same issue as everybody else have. Rear hub did not engage at all. Had to walk for hours home. Really pissed off. Have never had such an issue before in my 35 years riding mountain bikes.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Amazing how many people are unfortunately suffering from the same issue.
I feel like “patient 0”


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

az6669 said:


> No problems with the ratchet with about 600km on it but the bearing on the non-drive side is already crunchy.


Got contamination. Service it and keep rolling. Easy task.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Just issued by DTSwiss:









Ratchet EXP maintenance notice | DT Swiss






www.dtswiss.com


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Great to know that they acknowledge the problem!
Strange to learn of a premature wear as some users above had problems with 50km only...

Perfect to finally know how to identify which hubs can be defective from the serial number.

Horrible to learn that the latest EXP I bought is still a 0, so a problematic part


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## pdlpsher1 (Apr 11, 2021)

Thanks for the link. The two recently purchased hubs that I have also have '0's. Bummer.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

my wheels have the potential to be affected...but i swapped to a 54t right when i got them. i'm not sure if i eliminated all the sub standard material or not. i put in an inquiry to DT and will post an update. i only have about 400km of hard SS miles so far and it's been fine.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

jct said:


> my wheels have the potential to be affected...but i swapped to a 54t right when i got them. i'm not sure if i eliminated all the sub standard material or not. i put in an inquiry to DT and will post an update. i only have about 400km of hard SS miles so far and it's been fine.


How hard was it to upgrade to 54tooth when you have to change out the fixed star nut? It was super easy upgrade before they changed to EXP.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

eonicks said:


> How hard was it to upgrade to 54tooth when you have to change out the fixed star nut? It was super easy upgrade before they changed to EXP.


it was pretty easy. you need the specific tool though which is about $60USD...as well as a bench vise and a bearing punch.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Just filled the contact form as well so hoping to hear back from them soon!


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

jct said:


> my wheels have the potential to be affected...but i swapped to a 54t right when i got them. i'm not sure if i eliminated all the sub standard material or not. i put in an inquiry to DT and will post an update. i only have about 400km of hard SS miles so far and it's been fine.


I got a reply really quick:

_*Hey Josh,*_
*
It is possible that when you replaced your 36t ratchets for 54t that you actually got rid of the defective ratchets thus solving the issue. However I would say at the very least inspect the ratchets and free hub body for any damage. What we have seen in most cases with EXP hubs not engaging is the problem presents itself within 100 miles of riding, if you have several hundred miles on the hubs then I would say that you are in good shape! but I would still strongly suggest that you inspect the internals of the hub very closely and see if there is damage to the teeth of that ratchets or scaring inside the free hub body. If you notice any damage then these parts will need to be replaced. If you find any damage at all please let us know and we will go through the septs of either sending you some new replacement parts or having the wheel brought into our service center for a repair. . We apologize for any inconveniences or anxiety caused by the potential issue with EXP hubs.
*
_*Here are some things to look out for when you are doing the inspection of the internals.*_


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Reporting


eonicks said:


> Well I was a victim of this issue this morning. I contacted DT Swiss and they are sending me a label to ship back to them. I have a Roval Control SL wheel set that based on the paperwork provided, was hand built in Nov 2020 if that provides any indication of the vintage of the hub. I pulled off the hub body and looks like the movable ratchet (part 9 of schematic ) is wedged in similar to the posts above.
> 
> i had minor symptoms of the hub not engaging, but it was only a minor 1/4 turn of the crank, if that. I have about 200 miles on these wheels in Arizona, dry riding.


just reporting back with my experience on the rebuild process, which I'm happy to say was pretty quick. 
It took eight days between notifying them of the problem to receiving my wheel back repaired.
Upon emailing them a video of the hub freewheeling both ways they sent a return label for UPS. I shipped the next day (last Friday) and the wheel was received on Tuesday. They repaired wheel and I just received it back today (Friday). Looking at the hub, they replaced the freehub body and from what I can tell the floating star nut ratchet and I think the fixed ratchet. The repair order they included had the following parts listed

HWRABL00S3830S
HCDXXX00N8266S
HCDXXX00N2426S.

upon reading the service notice that someone posted, the serial number I have has the '0' in the middle, so it's one of the hubs with the weaker material.

FWIW, my wheel is a Roval 29 Control SL with a Roval branded hub, but says "powered by DT Swiss".
I'll report back after at least 10 rides on whether any recurring issues pop up.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

jct said:


> I got a reply really quick:
> 
> _*Hey Josh,*_
> 
> ...


Can you post the end of the email? Keen to know what things can be looked out for


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

jct said:


> it was pretty easy. you need the specific tool though which is about $60USD...as well as a bench vise and a bearing punch.


I'll summarize...."compared to before, it's a pita and even more expensive for the average end user".

You can still fix a wonky ratchet trailside though. Just be sure to pack your bench vise, punch, special tool and a breaker bar. Not sure you can put a built wheel in the vise so you'll probably want to unlace the hub first. Hopefully it's not raining.

Seriously though, it's a shame to see such a tried and true and easy to service design go this route. I bought a DT hub last year because of all the obvious pros of cost, weight, durability and easy maintenance. If I'm buying another one tomorrow I see little reason to sway me to the new DT design. In fact I'd likely steer very clear from it altogether with the ongoing design issues and the added difficulty and cost involved in a diy upgrade kit.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Got a very generic response from DT that my hub is affected, which I already know, and I need to send it to a service partner. Their partner in Finland only works through dealers so I need to handle this with my LBS, but at least they now admit there are issues!


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## Iyawnis (Apr 25, 2021)

Another user affected by this. Hub done about 400km off road. Hub engaged with a small delay initially and I wasn't sure what is happening, and then it completely got stuck and wouldn't engage until I dismounted and moved the chain to smallest cog, at which point it started engaging again. Messaged DT swiss through their form, and waiting response.. Now just need to decide if I'll race this wheel in two weeks or borrow a wheel from somewhere..


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Iyawnis said:


> Another user affected by this. Hub done about 400km off road. Hub engaged with a small delay initially and I wasn't sure what is happening, and then it completely got stuck and wouldn't engage until I dismounted and moved the chain to smallest cog, at which point it started engaging again. Messaged DT swiss through their form, and waiting response.. Now just need to decide if I'll race this wheel in two weeks or borrow a wheel from somewhere..


DT Swiss have made a public announcement (check the link posted a few pages ago). You can determine if your hub is affected by its serial number.


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## Iyawnis (Apr 25, 2021)

jas0nt said:


> DT Swiss have made a public announcement (check the link posted a few pages ago). You can determine if your hub is affected by its serial number.


Saw the public announcement, missed the serial number bit. Its a 308 unfortunately  so would fall under the potentially affected ones.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

@lyawnis, did your drivetrain start getting noisy especially under high torque/climbing for a while before failure? I have about the same product number, 307, and about 500 km on the wheel, and the last 100 or so I’ve started getting noise that sounds almost like bad gear indexing, but that isn’t it. Wondering if there are early warning indications.


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## Iyawnis (Apr 25, 2021)

It does actually yes, but hard to tell if it's the rachet or something else. As you suggest, a bit like the indexing is not quite right. Mine done about 400km. When it completely lost engagement I'd say it was under moderate torque, at about 300W (slight uphill). Cranks would go freely on both directions. When I changed gear to smallest cog it engaged again. I have now cleaned and regressed, will see how it goes over the next few days and decide if I'm sending it before or after a race on the 8th.. Visually inspecting the racket I couldn't see any obvious wear.


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## Bry224 (Apr 25, 2021)

Glad to see so much info on this. I My bought my son a new set of Roval SL carbon wheels fitted with these hubs three weeks ago and he experienced the ratchet not engaging after a small downhill section while freewheeling. Unfortunately when he attempted to pedal into a corner going up a incline, the ratchet didn't engage and caused the front to wash out and he crashed. He said that he felt like when he put power into the pedals that the cranks spun like he was freewheeling going forward. I thought that maybe he was in too high of a gear and dismissed it until we were riding on a sidewalk to the next bit of single track and it happened again. I took the wheel off and noticed what seemed to be way too much grease. I cleaned it on the side of the trail and it worked for a bit and happened again and again. We got home, cleaned the ratchet and spring then applied a light coat of DT Swiss Special Grease and it made it better for a few minutes of peddling, but it happened again. It's disappointing to say the least to spend 2700.00 on a premium wheelset and you don't trust that the hubs will perform. I bought the wheels from Specialized direct and I'm hoping that they'll replace the rear with an updated version of the hub since it's only been a few weeks.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Iyawnis said:


> Saw the public announcement, missed the serial number bit. Its a 308 unfortunately  so would fall under the potentially affected ones.


Isn't that a good thing? Means DT Swiss will replace them. You don't want to have a faulty hub that falls outside the affected serial numbers.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

jas0nt said:


> Isn't that a good thing? Means DT Swiss will replace them. You don't want to have a faulty hub that falls outside the affected serial numbers.


That's assuming there are faulty hubs outside the stated serial numbers.

I checked with my LBS about the oil slick DT 240s they still have on hold for me. They can't find a production number anywhere. I will check with DT Swiss but if anyone finds out in the meantime whether the limited production oil slicks are all outside the affected range, I would appreciate hearing from you. I have not yet fully given up the dream.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Iyawnis said:


> It does actually yes, but hard to tell if it's the rachet or something else. As you suggest, a bit like the indexing is not quite right. Mine done about 400km. When it completely lost engagement I'd say it was under moderate torque, at about 300W (slight uphill). Cranks would go freely on both directions. When I changed gear to smallest cog it engaged again. I have now cleaned and regressed, will see how it goes over the next few days and decide if I'm sending it before or after a race on the 8th.. Visually inspecting the racket I couldn't see any obvious wear.


Hello
If you have the chance to borrow a wheel, that is the safest way to go; check Bry224 post below yours; his son crashed due to this...


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Bry224 said:


> Glad to see so much info on this. I My bought my son a new set of Roval SL carbon wheels fitted with these hubs three weeks ago and he experienced the ratchet not engaging after a small downhill section while freewheeling. Unfortunately when he attempted to pedal into a corner going up a incline, the ratchet didn't engage and caused the front to wash out and he crashed. He said that he felt like when he put power into the pedals that the cranks spun like he was freewheeling going forward. I thought that maybe he was in too high of a gear and dismissed it until we were riding on a sidewalk to the next bit of single track and it happened again. I took the wheel off and noticed what seemed to be way too much grease. I cleaned it on the side of the trail and it worked for a bit and happened again and again. We got home, cleaned the ratchet and spring then applied a light coat of DT Swiss Special Grease and it made it better for a few minutes of peddling, but it happened again. It's disappointing to say the least to spend 2700.00 on a premium wheelset and you don't trust that the hubs will perform. I bought the wheels from Specialized direct and I'm hoping that they'll replace the rear with an updated version of the hub since it's only been a few weeks.


Thank you for sharing your story.
It is in fact disappointing to spend so much money on premium stuff and then have these problems...
It has already been discussed in this thread that, besides the disappointing and annoying part of this, the safety can be a real issue too.
Your son crashed due to this manufacturing problem! Hopefully it was a minor crash, but as there are so many of "us" out there, it can be the case that some serious accident may occur. 
DtSwiss better mount a really efficient operation to repair these hubs - mine took 3 months at the time!!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Request to all DtSwiss EXP hubs owners:
*If your hub fails and the serial number is not a 0 as stated by DtSwiss, please let everyone know in this forum* - which would be really bad news!

Let us all hope that at least this problem is contained in a nonetheless worrying large number of hubs.


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## Palmedrengen (Apr 26, 2021)

I had the same problem on my farsports kaze with the 240exp the other day after 1200km. Took it apart and the ratchet was stuck in the freehub. had to use a little screw driver to gentlely knock it loose. 

Dropped it off at my shop and he said it was probably too much grease and they have seen the problema few times. Got home now and just saw this threat and read the statement from DT Swiss so will check if the serial number is with the 0 in the middle.

I guess i should cancel the hub service if it is.

Regarding the faulty part is it the loose ratchet or the or the one in the freehub? If Its the loose it should be an easy fix.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

The problem is the moving ratchet and its interface with the freehub body.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Dangit, I got two new sets of EXP's in the last few months. One of them just came back from Berd. Will run down and check the numbers on them now.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Any thoughts on the issue being a tolerance related problem?


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## DerrickMe (Apr 26, 2021)

MTB Engineer said:


> The problem is the moving ratchet and its interface with the freehub body.


This is the answer/response that I was looking for. I just installed the 240exp for the season and right away, it was "skipping". It makes a snapping sound that becomes a loud bang if you apply more force. Nevertheless, it sends a snapping action through the bike frame. I have the Shimano hub body. Is it that the applied force causes the ratchet to push(bend) the hub body out then snap back into place once the teeth have slipped? I am looking for a quick fix as the season has already started. Should I replace the ratchets, Shimano hub body, or both. Someone had replied that they changed the ratchets and avoided all of the problems. Thanks in advance.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

See post #213 for the DT Swiss advisory.


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## DerrickMe (Apr 26, 2021)

Hey Matt, I was asking because the advisory actually states "variations in the surface finish of the ratchets", could lead to wear. My 240EXP is brand new and started skipping and snapping within the first 200 feet. I thought it was a derailleur problem and made many adjustment, then I put my old wheel on and it was gone. As it is the beginning of the season, my interest is to get them back on the bike and working properly. Again, my question is, if the ratchets and freehub body are replaced, is the fix successful. The last that I've heard in many forums is that there is a service issue that requires sending the hub back. I have not seen any follow up/experience on the actual successful fix.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Chamfering the moving ratchet ring so it doesn't bind with the spring helps, but this will obviously void your warranty so only do it if you have a spare ratchet on hand. The pic above shows the chamfered ratchet on the left.

The back inside edge of the ratchet where the spring sits and the freehub ends of the teeth need a very small chamfer and the result will be a hub that works ~95%.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

DerrickMe said:


> Hey Matt, I was asking because the advisory actually states "variations in the surface finish of the ratchets", could lead to wear. My 240EXP is brand new and started skipping and snapping within the first 200 feet. I thought it was a derailleur problem and made many adjustment, then I put my old wheel on and it was gone. As it is the beginning of the season, my interest is to get them back on the bike and working properly. Again, my question is, if the ratchets and freehub body are replaced, is the fix successful. The last that I've heard in many forums is that there is a service issue that requires sending the hub back. I have not seen any follow up/experience on the actual successful fix.


As Dt Swiss only announced this fix less than a week ago I don't think many people can give a follow up / experience on the actual fix.

One user on here had the fix done, and promptly sold the hubs to someone else so we have no true idea from them.

If I had a brand new hub that is skipping the way you are describing I would be filling the form in from DT Swiss and getting it fixed ASAP.

Sucks it's going to effect your racing season, but in all fairness that is a bit of a first world problems.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

DerrickMe said:


> Someone had replied that they changed the ratchets and avoided all of the problems. Thanks in advance.


i upgraded to 54t ratchets right away and no problems so far. i'm running an shimano hub body. fingers crossed!


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## Mtbholland (Apr 27, 2021)

Nande said:


> Hi have a set of new DTswiss 240 EXP - 1.000km up to today.
> Since they turned 500km, the rear hub engagement his giving me problems:
> every once in a while the ratchet did not engage (loose wheel feeling) and suddenly engaged again.
> Recently, when the ratchet does not engage, it just stay loose... I have to stop, disassemble the rear wheel, pull the spring and ratchet out, assemble again and ride...
> Of course I asked for a warranty replacement. Just wanted to know if I am an isolated case or if it is a known issue with the new exp?


Did you fix it already?
I had the same issue last year, bin to severals bikeshops and already send it for waranty but it keeps coming back.Now i put the wheels under my new bike and it happend a


Nande said:


> Hi have a set of new DTswiss 240 EXP - 1.000km up to today.
> Since they turned 500km, the rear hub engagement his giving me problems:
> every once in a while the ratchet did not engage (loose wheel feeling) and suddenly engaged again.
> Recently, when the ratchet does not engage, it just stay loose... I have to stop, disassemble the rear wheel, pull the spring and ratchet out, assemble again and ride...
> Of course I asked for a warranty replacement. Just wanted to know if I am an isolated case or if it is a known issue with the new exp?


Did you already fixed it?
I got the same issue.
Wheel already send back for warranty and showed to several bikeshops but it keeps comming back.Try different lubes.
Now I put the wheels under my new bike and it happened again after 250km.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

jct said:


> i upgraded to 54t ratchets right away and no problems so far. i'm running an shimano hub body. fingers crossed!


If upgrading to 54t solves the problem I'm in for that since it gets you more than back to zero, minus cost. Kits including the special tool are going for $175 USD, a good bit of which is the tool, so since I have two wheelsets it's probably worth. Conversion looks straightforward.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Mtbholland said:


> Did you fix it already?
> I had the same issue last year, bin to severals bikeshops and already send it for waranty but it keeps coming back.Now i put the wheels under my new bike and it happend a
> 
> Did you already fixed it?
> ...


He sold that set after warranty and now we don't know it's fate for sure.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

I sold the refurbished hub here in Portugal. Managed to speak to the guy a couple of weeks ago and the hub is OK. He probably did only a couple of hundred of km with it... but for the time being it seemed to be fixed.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Mtbholland said:


> Did you already fixed it?
> I got the same issue.
> Wheel already send back for warranty and showed to several bikeshops but it keeps comming back.Try different lubes.
> Now I put the wheels under my new bike and it happened again after 250km.


Did you local bikes try to fix the problem themselves? Or did they sent the hub back to DtSwiss?! The hub must be serviced by dtswiss. I have no information for now that they are sending "upgrading kits" to local distributors worldwide... Does anyone have any reliable information about who is trained and ready to do the refurbishing?
There are so many of us that this will probably turn into a logistic nightmare for them; and they can run out of parts delaying this even more...

Fiddling with lubs seems to change the frequency of the problem but does not eliminate it.


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## Palmedrengen (Apr 26, 2021)

Will it do anything with the warranty if my mechanic service the hub?
I guess if i have a faulty ratchet, DT Swiss will have to fix it anyway?


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## Palmedrengen (Apr 26, 2021)

I just spoke with the authorized DT Swiss service center in Denmark (Cycle Service Nordic) with some quite good information.

- If you experience the problem it's most likely one of the concerned hubs as the 240exp should be really reliable.
I didn't ask what to do if it's not one of the concerned hubs, but it seemed on what he said that even though it wasn't one with a '0' in the middel, they would still change it as it nonetheless arent supposed to happen on a DT swiss hub.

If it is one of the concerned hubs this is the process (at least in Denmark)

Drop it off at a retailer and have them send it (He said it has to be send through a retailer/shop)
They will shift the freehub, loose ratchet and the fixed ratchet in the hub.

The problem:

The fixed ratchet is not a part of the problem, but it can be damaged because of the faulty loose ratchet, hence all parts are change.
It can be fixed by swapping the parts yourself, but they will like to do this themselves. (I guess doing it yourself is bad for the warranty)

Look for your domestic service center here:








Service Center | DT Swiss






www.dtswiss.com





Hope this will help you all.


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## beansman (Feb 27, 2017)

Palmedrengen said:


> I just spoke with the authorized DT Swiss service center in Denmark (Cycle Service Nordic) with some quite good information.
> 
> ...
> 
> Hope this will help you all.


Same experience here. DT Swiss will reimburse the shop for shipping costs, but any other cost is placed on the end-user.
Very quick reply, filled out the form last night and got a phone call this morning about how to send it.


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## Palmedrengen (Apr 26, 2021)

beansman said:


> Same experience here. DT Swiss will reimburse the shop for shipping costs, but any other cost is placed on the end-user.
> Very quick reply, filled out the form last night and got a phone call this morning about how to send it.


What other costs is placed on you? Shipment to local retailer or what could this be.
My wheels are at Cranks and Coffee in Klampenborg and i guess i will have to pay them for the help, at least i would ask to pay them as they're always really helpful


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## beansman (Feb 27, 2017)

Palmedrengen said:


> What other costs is placed on you? Shipment to local retailer or what could this be.
> My wheels are at Cranks and Coffee in Klampenborg and i guess i will have to pay them for the help, at least i would ask to pay them as they're always really helpful


I bought my wheels outside Denmark, so it might be a small handling fee for the shop. That should be it.


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## mtbbikefreedom (Apr 5, 2021)

Good afternoon, I tell you my experience:

I have a Dt Swiss 180 EXP hub, in the first kilometers sometimes the ratchet would not engage for a second (loose wheel sensation), but after 1866 kms the rear hub engagement started to give me problems, the ratchet did not fully engage having to disassemble the wheel, remove the cassette with your hands and put the ratchet back in place.

So I took my bike and left it at a bike shop, where all they did was stretch the spring, clean and grease the whole thing.
The enganged problem seemed to disappear, although at times it was noticeable that the cassette was not engage well.

After a time, specifically the following year, it started to fail again, and in recent months on a road bike trip I had to remove the wheel 4 times to disengage the ratchet from the hub.


Already tired of everything and thanks to reading this forum I contacted a new bike shop recommended by a friend "flyzbikes on Madrid" who knew the problem and processed the warranty for the repair of the wheel.

They sent the wheel to DtSwiss Spain where they changed the spring, the ratchets and the hub core of 180 EXP HUB.

I left the wheel in the bike shop on April 8 and they returned the fixed wheel to me on April 28, a total of 20 days !!!

Now I am waiting to mount the wheel again and test it.

I'll tell you about it.

All the best.
Snake.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buenas tardes, les cuento mi experiencia:

Tengo un buje Dt Swiss 180 EXP, en los primeros kilómetros a veces el trinquete no se enganchaba por un segundo (sensación de rueda suelta), pero después de 1866 kms el enganche del buje trasero comenzó a darme problemas serios, el trinquete no se enganchaba completamente teniendo que desmontar la rueda, retirar el casete con las manos y volviendo a colocar el trinquete y muelle en su sitio.

Después de esto dejé mi bicicleta en una tienda de bicicletas para que revisaran el problema, donde lo único que hicieron fue estirar el resorte, limpiar y engrasar todo.
El problema del enganche pareció desaparecer, aunque a veces se notaba que el casete no enganchaba bien.

Después de un tiempo, específicamente al año siguiente, comenzó a fallar nuevamente, y en los últimos meses en una ruta con la bici tuve que quitar la rueda 4 veces para desenganchar el trinquete del buje y poder continuar.

Ya cansado de todo y gracias a leer este foro me puse en contacto con una nueva tienda de bicicletas recomendada por un amigo "flyzbikes en Madrid" que conocía el problema y tramitó la garantía para la reparación de la rueda.

Enviaron la rueda a DtSwiss España donde cambiaron el resorte, los trinquetes y el núcleo del buje del 180 EXP HUB.

Dejé la rueda en la tienda de bicicletas el 8 de abril y me devolvieron la rueda arreglada el 28 de abril, ¡un total de 20 días!

Ahora estoy esperando para volver a montar la rueda y probarla.

Ya os contaré.

Un saludo.
Snake.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Hello Snake
Glad to know that this thread is helping EXP users to understand and solve their problems.
Let us have some news on your fixed EXP hub; up to now we don’t have much feedback from people that had their hubs fixed. It would be important to know if 100% of the problems are solved, as it is expected.


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

Nande said:


> Request to all DtSwiss EXP hubs owners:
> *If your hub fails and the serial number is not a 0 as stated by DtSwiss, please let everyone know in this forum* - which would be really bad news!
> 
> Let us all hope that at least this problem is contained in a nonetheless worrying large number of hubs.


Actually they state if your hub middle serial number is not a 1 then it is the faulty material


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Nande said:


> *If your hub fails and the serial number is not a 0 as stated by DtSwiss, *





suprteck said:


> Actually they state if your hub middle serial number is not a 1 then it is the faulty material


Sounds easier to say:
If it has a 1, all is good
If it has a 0, all might not be good


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

I had just bought 2 new wheelsets built with 240's and when i say "just", i mean, i literally just received them a week back and put about 50 miles on one set while the other still sat new in the box waiting for other parts. I had been monitoring this thread hoping that my hubs would be more recent and built after the affected batch. Nope! Unfortunately for me, both sets were built with "0" code hubs. A quick email to DT through that link and i had a tracking label for both wheels. Fingers crossed everything works out.


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

My Light bicycle wheels are shipping from China and should be here soon. I’m hoping they’re the updated version.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Both my sets have the affected serial numbers. I'm doing a claim now and sending one in. Then will send the other after the first one comes back.

At least that's my hope nothing happens during that time. Worst case, I'm riding my hardtail for a while.


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

suprteck said:


> My Light bicycle wheels are shipping from China and should be here soon. I'm hoping they're the updated version.


that was my situation, though a different vendor. Nope, mine were built with older stock i suppose.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

It seems to me that the hubs with serial numbers “1” may have start shipping only this month.... as it seems that nobody has checked their recently bought hubs and found a 1.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Actually. If upgrading to the 54t ratchet solves the issue without having to mail them in, I may go that route. Anyone with thoughts on that ?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

If that fix is legitimate, I wouldn't hesitate. Kinda seems like a no brainer.


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

shakazulu12 said:


> Actually. If upgrading to the 54t ratchet solves the issue without having to mail them in, I may go that route. Anyone with thoughts on that ?


Except you have to purchase special tools to swap the fixed ratchet


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

suprteck said:


> Except you have to purchase special tools to swap the fixed ratchet


 Just the ratchet tool right? I already have one in the toolbox for DT Swiss.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

shakazulu12 said:


> Actually. If upgrading to the 54t ratchet solves the issue without having to mail them in, I may go that route. Anyone with thoughts on that ?


See post #247


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

The conversion manual on DT Swiss site details all tools needed...4 total.

My question is: are the 54t ratchets made of same material as 36t. Think and email to DT Swiss is in order.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

suprteck said:


> Except you have to purchase special tools to swap the fixed ratchet


I want whatever tools I need to maintain my bikes. I perform all of my own maintenance and repairs. If you don't want to buy tools, take it to your LBS. Minor issue.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Yeah, I would rather just have the tools I need to service my bike. I realize now that I have EXP's now, so need new stuff. Now the question is whether the ratchet upgrade actually alleviates the problem.


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

That's a good question. Since EXP hubs all come as 36t, we don't really have any data on 54t ratchet upgrades.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

I filled out the DT Swiss maintenance form with a note asking whether 54t upgrade kits are made with superior parts/material and would an upgrade fix/fail- proof the issue.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

shakazulu12 said:


> Yeah, I would rather just have the tools I need to service my bike. I realize now that I have EXP's now, so need new stuff. Now the question is whether the ratchet upgrade actually alleviates the problem.


I'm confused. Why don't you send it back to DT Swiss (at no cost to you) and get the problem fixed? You don't need to spend or upgrade anything to fix the problem.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

jas0nt said:


> I'm confused. Why don't you send it back to DT Swiss (at no cost to you) and get the problem fixed? You don't need to spend or upgrade anything to fix the problem.


Don't want to deal with shipping and being down a set of rims, makes an excellent excuse to do the upgrade. And I actually find joy in working on things.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

jas0nt said:


> I'm confused. Why don't you send it back to DT Swiss (at no cost to you) and get the problem fixed? You don't need to spend or upgrade anything to fix the problem.


I could see this as a choice where one would prefer to ride over sitting on the sidelines waiting for your only wheel (set) to return for an unknown duration.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

+1 on previous two posts. Self serve upgrade is a win win that gets you beyond getting back to zero. Minus cost of any tools and upgrade kits. For me upgrading was always a possibility, but now timing seems right, assuming 54t parts aren’t inferior. I too like working on my bike and knowing how everything works and how to fix stuff.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Nande said:


> It seems to me that the hubs with serial numbers "1" may have start shipping only this month.... as it seems that nobody has checked their recently bought hubs and found a 1.


It kinda makes sense that they didn't start shipping hubs with the new ratchets until recently.

Here is a challenge - anyone following this thread that has exp hubs that are not included in this?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jas0nt said:


> I'm confused. Why don't you send it back to DT Swiss (at no cost to you) and get the problem fixed? You don't need to spend or upgrade anything to fix the problem.


Ship an entire wheel?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

I also asked my local dealer if the upgrade to 54t solves the problem. Still waiting for the answer, because in my opinion probably not:
If you change both ratchets, you still need to change the parts that connect to the moving ratchet (spring, etc...) as those are things that they change to “fix the problem” but I believe are not a part of the upgrade to 54t.
So what I asked for was: give me the fixing kit and I pay for the 2 new ratchets. As soon as I have an answer on this I will post it here.

Anyone has reliable info on this?


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## gravel_tom (Apr 30, 2021)

JonF1 said:


> I had just bought 2 new wheelsets built with 240's and when i say "just", i mean, i literally just received them a week back and put about 50 miles on one set while the other still sat new in the box waiting for other parts. I had been monitoring this thread hoping that my hubs would be more recent and built after the affected batch. Nope! Unfortunately for me, both sets were built with "0" code hubs. A quick email to DT through that link and i had a tracking label for both wheels. Fingers crossed everything works out.


Do DT Swiss replace hubs in the affected serial number range even if they have yet to show a problem? Did your hub show the problem?


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## Emax (Dec 4, 2005)

From everything I've read here it seems like DT Swiss did not issue a recall of the potentially affected series of hubs, but rather they just have a fix for hubs that experience the failure.

The DT Swiss explanation also seems somewhat vague, but it sounds like potentially the new design is more sensitive to precise manufacturing standards at a level that the old design with the twin floating ratchets did not require. 

I can see how those with perfectly functioning hubs from the affected series would be frustrated by the thought "Will my hub fail?". That's a level of uncertainty that anyone buying an expensive set of hubs or wheels tries to minimize by spending extra $$$ for that peace of mind.


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## jas0nt (Mar 16, 2021)

Emax said:


> I can see how those with perfectly functioning hubs from the affected series would be frustrated by the thought "Will my hub fail?". That's a level of uncertainty that anyone buying an expensive set of hubs or wheels tries to minimize by spending extra $$$ for that peace of mind.


DT Swiss have said if it doesn't happen very early on (a few 100km's), then it's not likely to happen. Reading between the lines I assume it means when A rubs against B (whatever the parts are), the damage is very quick to occur and you will then notice disengagement. This is opposed to it being a gradual thing. Meaning the risk of it malfunctioning gradually becomes low as distance ridden increases.


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

gravel_tom said:


> Do DT Swiss replace hubs in the affected serial number range even if they have yet to show a problem? Did your hub show the problem?


I requested both to be repaired via the web form and they approved so this week I sent them both in. 1 wheel had just a few rides on it, less than 50 miles but i did experience a couple little slips jumping back on power through tight singletrack, the kind that really make your chain and cassette clang. The other wheel was never even installed on the bike but its from the exact same batch and so i presume would eventually fail.


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## Emax (Dec 4, 2005)

jas0nt said:


> DT Swiss have said if it doesn't happen very early on (a few 100km's), then it's not likely to happen. Reading between the lines I assume it means when A rubs against B (whatever the parts are), the damage is very quick to occur and you will then notice disengagement. This is opposed to it being a gradual thing. Meaning the risk of it malfunctioning gradually becomes low as distance ridden increases.


I'm not sure this is true... Someone here mentioned that they got the failure after riding as much as 1200kms, and others got a failure after a few hundred km's... so I'm not sure that there is a specific "safe distance ridden" rule.
Then there may be folks out there with multiple bikes, who may only do a 100kms on the affected DT hubs in a year - so knowing the wheel is built on the hub from the impacted series will make riding their bike a much less enjoyable experience.
Just from reading posts here, it is evident, that folks whose hubs are fixed, are wondering if anyone experienced any issues with the fixed hubs or hubs outside of the affected series, so yeah the confidence in these DT EXP hubs has been reduced. IMO DT should recall the affected series and fix/inspect them...


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I have to agree on this. I'm a skeptic on that statement of a few hundred Km's.


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## mtbbikefreedom (Apr 5, 2021)

Cleared2land said:


> I have to agree on this. I'm a skeptic on that statement of a few hundred Km's.


As I said in a previous post, it started to happen to me from km 1866 (reviewed in the strava), although it is true that before I had noticed a few times that the cassette did not engage well in a few microseconds...

The core that DT Swiss has changed does not have the serial number printed on it, but I have asked the bike shop for it because I think it is specified on the invoice that they remain...


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Amazing rapid response from DT Swiss. Since I have new hubs (road and mtb) with farily low miles and no issues yet they are sending me two new 36T ratchets and freehub bodies and special grease free of charge. They said 54T has no benefit for road, only tech mtb. Tool-less preventative fix free with no send-in needed...boom!


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## JYLY (Apr 30, 2021)

So I am kinda screwed. I bought a new bike, YT Izzo about a month ago, rode under 200 kilometers before the failures started. Tried to fix it according to the instructions found here about cleaning and greasing with no success, tried all kind of stuff with the spring also which probably fucked the spring even more.

The real problem is that DT Swiss (cycle service Nordic in Finland) refuses to handle this directly and YT with their non existent customer service does not answer to anything. All I get from them is receipt notifications. It has been well over 2 weeks since I first contacted them. NOTHING has been done about this.


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## orind (Jan 8, 2006)

Just an update--I received my return label, shipped, wheel received by DT Swiss, 1 day turnaround, shipped back, should have wheel back Saturday--I did move everything over to a set of I9 wheels, so not necessarily in hurry to move things back.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

Nande said:


> I also asked my local dealer if the upgrade to 54t solves the problem. Still waiting for the answer, because in my opinion probably not:
> If you change both ratchets, you still need to change the parts that connect to the moving ratchet (spring, etc...) as those are things that they change to "fix the problem" but I believe are not a part of the upgrade to 54t.
> So what I asked for was: give me the fixing kit and I pay for the 2 new ratchets. As soon as I have an answer on this I will post it here.
> 
> Anyone has reliable info on this?


My 54t ratchet parts kit came with the 2 ratchets, a new spring(supposedly stiffer than 38/18t) and red washer thing.


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## tuomio (Nov 30, 2020)

JYLY said:


> So I am kinda screwed. I bought a new bike, YT Izzo about a month ago, rode under 200 kilometers before the failures started. Tried to fix it according to the instructions found here about cleaning and greasing with no success, tried all kind of stuff with the spring also which probably fucked the spring even more.
> 
> The real problem is that DT Swiss (cycle service Nordic in Finland) refuses to handle this directly and YT with their non existent customer service does not answer to anything. All I get from them is receipt notifications. It has been well over 2 weeks since I first contacted them. NOTHING has been done about this.


Did you contact DT Swiss via the maintenance info page? I'm also in Finland, and bought a faulty wheelset from bike-discount.de. DT Swiss explicitly told me that I can send the rear wheel to be repaired locally by Cycle Service Nordic.

Or maybe it is different because your wheelset came with a bike.


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## austinzippy (Apr 5, 2010)

I discovered this thread while waiting for a set of wheels to be built with EXP hubs. Took the excitement right out it. But very glad to see DTswiss has figured out the problem and that it does not (yet) seem to be an issue with the 54T ratchet. I have maybe 100 miles now on these wheels and zero issues. The sound has changed from near silence to what I remember my old 240s to sound like, but I presume that is the grease moving around. Can't feel the 100g weight difference from my old creaky hydras, but my brain is happy.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

austinzippy said:


> I discovered this thread while waiting for a set of wheels to be built with EXP hubs. Took the excitement right out it. But very glad to see DTswiss has figured out the problem and that it does not (yet) seem to be an issue with the 54T ratchet. I have maybe 100 miles now on these wheels and zero issues. The sound has changed from near silence to what I remember my old 240s to sound like, but I presume that is the grease moving around. Can't feel the 100g weight difference from my old creaky hydras, but my brain is happy.


Your hydras creaked?


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Cycle service nordic does not serve individual customers, you must go through a local dealer.

i9 Hydras creak when the freehub bearings are on their way out, which is roughly every 1500km 😑


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## austinzippy (Apr 5, 2010)

006_007 said:


> Your hydras creaked?


Yes, both my torch and hydras creaked, and once they start even new bearings does not solve entirely. When they start creaking, removing the bearing, cleaning and greasing the housing fixes for a while. Not hard to do&#8230;just annoying.


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## JYLY (Apr 30, 2021)

tuomio said:


> Did you contact DT Swiss via the maintenance info page? I'm also in Finland, and bought a faulty wheelset from bike-discount.de. DT Swiss explicitly told me that I can send the rear wheel to be repaired locally by Cycle Service Nordic.
> 
> Or maybe it is different because your wheelset came with a bike.


I first contacted Cycle Service Nordic, they told me to contact YT. Later I used the maintenance info page to explain the situation, but have not received a reply yet.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

austinzippy said:


> Yes, both my torch and hydras creaked, and once they start even new bearings does not solve entirely.


That's because it's not a bearing problem.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Yeh I don’t think I’ve ever heard of bearings creaking.


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## austinzippy (Apr 5, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> That's because it's not a bearing problem.


What am I doing wrong? Friends have the same problem too. I agree it does not seem to be bearings, but taking out and cleaning everything seems to fix it for a time.


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## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

bearing bore out of spec maybe?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Depending on the country, DTSwiss can solve the problem with the end-customer directly - by sending parts free of charge so that he solves it himself; either send you a pickup note and you send the parts to them.... or, as it is the case in Portugal, they do not handle end customers directly, we have to go through local distributors which can be faster or slower depending on the distributors themselves. 

1. The last 240EXP I bought, that has unfortunately also a 0 serial number, has now 3.609km and absolutely no problem.

2. Not sure yet if I send the wheels to my local distributor to be sent to dtswiss, or if I buy the upgrade for 54T and thus solve the eventual future problem and do an upgrade at the same time.

3. From what I remember from this thread, all engagement problems appear the first time in the first 1.000km (many times in the first 100km). As this last one is 3.609km there is a very low probability that it fails... but I feel unsafe to take these wheels for a long multi-days ride... so I think I will try the upgrade...

4. Stopped for the moment the decision to by an extra pair of wheels as they should also come again with 240 EXP... probably depending on the next couple of month’s feedback here, I will make a decision.

Please, all of you ex-EXP-convicted , let us know if the refurbishing solved the engagement issues.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> That's because it's not a bearing problem.





austinzippy said:


> What am I doing wrong? Friends have the same problem too. I agree it does not seem to be bearings, but taking out and cleaning everything seems to fix it for a time.


Most creaks are torque related. Loss of torque creates opportunity for residual, unintended movement that creates the noise. Lubing or replacing the bearings was a process that necessitated a fresh torque following the task.


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## tuomio (Nov 30, 2020)

JYLY said:


> I first contacted Cycle Service Nordic, they told me to contact YT. Later I used the maintenance info page to explain the situation, but have not received a reply yet.


Well I guess I'll still have to wait and see how cycle service nordic responds. At least I have the option to handle the repair through bike-discount if CSN declines.


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## carlmagnus (May 3, 2021)

Hi,
Also bought a pair of wheels from Bike discount. EXC1501 with 240exp.
Emailed DT Swiss Cycle Service Nordic yesterday but got a generic answer and advice to continue with B-Discount.


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## carlmagnus (May 3, 2021)

I also consider buying 54t. Have you received any answer to your question.


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## carlmagnus (May 3, 2021)

MattMay said:


> I filled out the DT Swiss maintenance form with a note asking whether 54t upgrade kits are made with superior parts/material and would an upgrade fix/fail- proof the issue.


I also consider buying 54t. Have you received any answer to your question.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

I have had no issues with the 52T star ratchet on my 350s for 3 years/ 1,000km. Not the 240s i know, but this still applies to the freehub mechanism


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

carlmagnus said:


> I also consider buying 54t. Have you received any answer to your question.


See post 289


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Monty219 said:


> I have had no issues with the 52T star ratchet on my 350s for 3 years/ 1,000km. Not the 240s i know, but this still applies to the freehub mechanism


 Totally different thing! The 350 uses the old style ratchet system with 2 moving ratchets, ratchet EXP. The old style is bombproof as long as it's maintained properly.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

MTB Engineer said:


> The old style is bombproof as long as it's maintained properly.


The old style is bombproof even if it isn't maintained. That was one of it's well known strongpoints.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

Oh thanks for clearing that up. I have heard new 240s arent as reliable but wasnt sure why. Thats really too bad. Do the new 350s still use the 2 part system?


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Monty219 said:


> Oh thanks for clearing that up. I have heard new 240s arent as reliable but wasnt sure why. Thats really too bad. Do the new 350s still use the 2 part system?


the 350's design remains unchanged from what I see on the DT website. 180/240 are EXP


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## Boooooo (Apr 20, 2021)

offtopic: 350 has just released an updated version (April): still not EXP and lighter (close to the 240 not exp) very interesting!


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## nickel650 (May 4, 2021)

Glad I came across this thread. Had the stuck ratchet problem, so I contacted DT Swiss USA via their website and within 2 minutes I got a response saying that they'll send me a shipping label and fix it. Good thing I still have the box from my Enve warrantee issue (another wheelset than the one with the EXP hub). Bummed that this issue made it into production, but glad they are on top of it.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^ Keep us in copy of how this develops and the time to complete the process.


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## axo0oxa (Mar 19, 2008)

This is an issue, DT Swiss recognizes it and is just fantastic about dealing with it in an expedited way. My wheel was sent out and returned, about 2 weeks tops, which I thought was quick but still hard to wait that long considering it was a brand new bike and the time of year. Better than being stranded. You need to send the rim stripped of the tire, disc and cassette, just the rim and hub. I am exteremly happy with the service and the turn around time. The wheel sounds even better than before, which says that there defineately was some sort of issue. It seems the "star ratchet R2 36 teeth M30" was the part in question, at least as written up.


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## nickel650 (May 4, 2021)

In removing the rotor to prepare to ship the wheel, I do see that I have the 0 in my serial number, so it appears that my wheel is pre-fix. It gets sent off today. Good thing I have a spare wheel to keep me rolling while this is fixed.


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## Bry224 (Apr 25, 2021)

Update on the 180 hubs that came with the Roval SL wheels. I took the wheels to my local Specialized/Roval dealer and DT Swiss acknowledged the issue and sent a shipping label for the warranty work. I am a little scared to put my son back on the wheels. I'm not quite convinced that they have this issue sorted.


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## Bry224 (Apr 25, 2021)

Nande said:


> Thank you for sharing your story.
> It is in fact disappointing to spend so much money on premium stuff and then have these problems...
> It has already been discussed in this thread that, besides the disappointing and annoying part of this, the safety can be a real issue too.
> Your son crashed due to this manufacturing problem! Hopefully it was a minor crash, but as there are so many of "us" out there, it can be the case that some serious accident may occur.
> DtSwiss better mount a really efficient operation to repair these hubs - mine took 3 months at the time!!


Thankfully it was a slow speed crash and he was ok. He was scared to stand up and pedal thinking that the hub would let go.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Bry224 said:


> Update on the 180 hubs that came with the Roval SL wheels. I took the wheels to my local Specialized/Roval dealer and DT Swiss acknowledged the issue and sent a shipping label for the warranty work. I am a little scared to put my son back on the wheels. I'm not quite convinced that they have this issue sorted.


i received back my Roval SL wheel from DT Swiss in Colorado a couple of weeks back. So far so good on the repair.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

The upgraded 350 looks like a pretty great option--especially with decent engagement out of the box. I wish they were out now!


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^ Keep us in copy of how this develops and the time to complete the process.


 It took 8 days for me from notification to receiving the hub back repaired.


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## pdlpsher1 (Apr 11, 2021)

I sent my request for the retrofit kit last night and I got a response back this morning at 7am. They asked for my serial numbers (I have two wheelsets) and freehub type. It turns out both of my wheelsets have the same serial number. So those numbers must be batch numbers and not serial numbers. The rep. didn't mention anything about a freehub shortage but that's before I had given him my freehub type. Will see.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

I have two sets of 180 EXP wheels, both upgraded with the 54T ratchet. One has 200 miles and the other one has 50 miles without any issues so far.

I'll let everybody know if they develop problems.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

RisingStar said:


> I have two sets of 180 EXP wheels, both upgraded with the 54T ratchet. One has 200 miles and the other one has 50 miles without any issues so far.
> 
> I'll let everybody know if they develop problems.


Do your hubs belong to the "0" problematic series?
Did you experience engagement failure prior to the 54T upgrade?


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## pdlpsher1 (Apr 11, 2021)

The risk of riding the wheels without the retrofit is that once the problem develops the fixed rachet will be damaged and hence need to be replaced by shipping the wheels in. By doing the retrofit early before the problem starts it mitigates the need from having to ship the wheels in. That's why I chose the retrofit option.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Nande said:


> Do your hubs belong to the "0" problematic series?
> Did you experience engagement failure prior to the 54T upgrade?


Yes. Both hubs are from the "0" problematic series. I didn't experience any problems prior to upgrading. One hub came upgraded from the seller and I upgraded the other one with less than 20 miles with the 36T.


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

suprteck said:


> My Light bicycle wheels are shipping from China and should be here soon. I'm hoping they're the updated version.


I just got my new wheels and hubs need to be upgraded. Since they are brand new DT will be sending me a new hub body and ratchet. No need to send in my wheel


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

I sent in 2 rear wheels, both with new 240 EXP's, 1 used for about 30 miles (several engagement issues encountered) and 1 unused. Got wheels back in about 10 business days (im on east coast).


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

suprteck said:


> I just got my new wheels and hubs need to be upgraded. Since they are brand new DT will be sending me a new hub body and ratchet. No need to send in my wheel


Hub body? Freehub?


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

He means freehub. You scrap the old freehub.


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## albreyes (May 11, 2021)

Nande said:


> Hi have a set of new DTswiss 240 EXP - 1.000km up to today.
> Since they turned 500km, the rear hub engagement his giving me problems:
> every once in a while the ratchet did not engage (loose wheel feeling) and suddenly engaged again.
> Recently, when the ratchet does not engage, it just stay loose... I have to stop, disassemble the rear wheel, pull the spring and ratchet out, assemble again and ride...
> Of course I asked for a warranty replacement. Just wanted to know if I am an isolated case or if it is a known issue with the new exp?


Hey I just got my brand new bike with 240 rachet hub and it is happening the same after less than 30km....


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

albreyes said:


> Hey I just got my brand new bike with 240 rachet hub and it is happening the same after less than 30km....


Have you filled out the form to get it fixed?


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Coming back to report that the wheel I sent to DT Swiss in Colorado to be overhauled is working flawlessly after about 2-3 weeks of hard Arizona riding. They had replaced the fixed and floating ratchets as well as the XD driver body.


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## Bry224 (Apr 25, 2021)

Glad to hear that it's working out.


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## E_P (May 20, 2021)

JYLY said:


> I first contacted Cycle Service Nordic, they told me to contact YT. Later I used the maintenance info page to explain the situation, but have not received a reply yet.


I had this problem with YT as well. Didn't want to wait for YT's reply to the warranty case (which I eventually had after 2 months), but went to nearest bike shop, who sent the wheel to CSN.

They've had it for a while (maybe 6 weeks) now waiting for new parts. The wheel should be refurbished by the end of next week.


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## Bry224 (Apr 25, 2021)

I ended up sending the wheels back to Specialized utilizing the 30 day return policy and bought a set of control carbon wheels that come with DT Swiss 350 hubs. I would like to buy another set of control SL wheels with 180 hubs if the modification holds up.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

That’s a good plan. I wish I was in the window to to get the tried and true 350s. My refurb is still holding up. Fingers crossed.


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## jCheng (Oct 6, 2020)

So DT Swiss are going to send me a new 54T ratchet and driver for my 180s

Just gotta send the old ones back when I receive the new ones


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

I was also planning to buy a new set of wheels - Roval Carbon SL. But as they come with the 180 EXP, I am also waiting to see the development of this issue before buying more problems with DTSwiss... had enough up to now.

From all the post and messages, the present situation seems as follows:
1. Refurbishing the hubs seems to solve the problem
2. Hubs that do not fail in the first 1.000km (even from the 0 series), seem to be free from this issue.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

MattMay said:


> Just issued by DTSwiss:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looks like they took down the maintenance notice. Seems kind of shady.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

eonicks said:


> looks like they took down the maintenance notice. Seems kind of shady.


It was online yesterday... if they removed it, it is weird!!
Probably because they are getting an avalanche of requests that is getting impossible to handle... but this is a manufacturer mistake - a company like DtSwiss should really step forward and solve this.
If they make a really good job correcting this mistake, they could improve customer's trust, as we would realize that in case there is a problem, they are there to solve it.
Or they can just leave a really bad image to a community that will think twice before buying anything else from them.

From the posts here from all over the world, it is clear that this issue is being handled quite differently depending on the countries. Some of you had an ultrafast service, others a regular one and others a really slow and unresponsive one... not really good


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

jCheng said:


> So DT Swiss are going to send me a new 54T ratchet and driver for my 180s
> 
> Just gotta send the old ones back when I receive the new ones


Dt swiss sent me new ones and didn't ask to send back my old brand new parts.


eonicks said:


> looks like they took down the maintenance notice. Seems kind of shady.


it is back up today


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

suprteck said:


> it is back up today


They are living in fear of what we are saying/watching them on this forum.

Or maybe be they were doing site maintenance. Should have advised us first.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

006_007 said:


> They are living in fear of what we are saying/watching them on this forum.
> 
> Or maybe be they were doing site maintenance. Should have advised us first.


 Lol. Indeed.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

MattMay said:


> Just issued by DTSwiss:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just quoting the link again for other folks. Maybe the OP can link it in the first post. I read through the thread and missed it the first time around.

Thanks for the link.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Sadly, I'm back here to report that my 54T upgraded 180 EXP hub failed today after 280 miles. It disengaged about 5 times during a 10 mile ride. Lucky I ride clipless and didn't crash when it disengaged. 2 of those 5 times it just slipped for about a second. The other 3 times I lost engagement completely and had to stop and shake the wheel and pedal backwards. After 30 seconds or so, it reengages again.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

That’s no good.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

We're they ones where you upgraded them? I got the replacement parts for my 180 EXP sets and was about to do the upgrade myself. Dt does want the old parts back but maybe I should hold them a while In Case of failure of the new parts? My old ones have not exhibited the issue yet.



RisingStar said:


> Sadly, I'm back here to report that my 54T upgraded 180 EXP hub failed today after 280 miles. It disengaged about 5 times during a 10 mile ride. Lucky I ride clipless and didn't crash when it disengaged. 2 of those 5 times it just slipped for about a second. The other 3 times I lost engagement completely and had to stop and shake the wheel and pedal backwards. After 30 seconds or so, it reengages again.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

EdSawyer said:


> We're they ones where you upgraded them? I got the replacement parts for my 180 EXP sets and was about to do the upgrade myself. Dt does want the old parts back but maybe I should hold them a while In Case of failure of the new parts? My old ones have not exhibited the issue yet.


Yeah. I upgraded them myself. Didn't think the 54T upgrade would fix this issue. DT Swiss is sending out a new freehub body in their repair kit for a reason. This defect must be more than just the ratchets wearing out. The floating ratchet is probably getting stuck in the freehub body, causing it not to engage.

Maybe you should hold on to the old parts as backup if you don't have a spare wheel. It's not confirmed yet the new parts fix the issue.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

I just did the swap of new parts on one of my sets and will ride it today. One thing that might have an effect, they warn of using too much grease. It’s hard to tell how much is too much. Looking at the old and new parts it is hard to see any difference but it must be at a very small level , maybe not visible
To the naked eye.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Very little grease is needed.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Yeh if you watch the DT Swiss video on servicing exp hubs they use it very sparingly with a light brush.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Too much grease is indeed bad, but it’s not what causes the moving ratchet to get stuck in the freehub body. I still think the tolerances between the freehub body and the moving ratchet are incorrect, and too much play between these parts allows the ratchet to move at a slight angle and get caught in the freehub body splines.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Yup. It's definitely not too much grease what's causing the moving ratchet to get stuck in the freehub body. I just took apart my hub and cleaned it out really good. Didn't notice any abnormal wear in the ratchets. Made sure I greased them really light with a thin brush. Guess what? Lost engagement in the hub just making a few turns in front of my house.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

You're correct, grease has nothing to do with it.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

RisingStar said:


> Yup. It's definitely not too much grease what's causing the moving ratchet to get stuck in the freehub body.


You're correct, grease has nothing to do with it.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Super old news now but my buddy’s 240 just crapped the bed on him yesterday. It was his third ride on his new Switchblade. He had a $10k coaster bike for 2 hours back to his truck. Good times.

I sure do hope that nobody gets hurt. This should perhaps be a full recall. He wasn’t even aware of the issue until I filled him in.

Now what? It’s a short riding season here. Being out of pocket of his only mtb bike for weeks on end is a horrible situation.

This is pretty brutal for anyone affected. He’s had that bike since February. No notice from DT, Pivot or the LBS. I bet there are a lot of 240 owners who still have no clue abut any of this. Like I said - I sure do hope nobody gets hurt.


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## meeeeep (Apr 22, 2011)

I had this problem with a novatec hub and I fixed it by squirting stove oil in there. You guys should try using since aerosol penetrating oil to see if you can get the pawls unstuck.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

meeeeep said:


> I had this problem with a novatec hub and I fixed it by squirting stove oil in there. You guys should try using since aerosol penetrating oil to see if you can get the pawls unstuck.


There are no pawls in this hub. It's a ratchet hub.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

I greased mine pretty lightly when putting In the new parts. I didn’t watch the video but did about the level of grease shown in the service manual they linked to via email. Used a brush too. 

The hub is definitely louder now, probably twice as loud. I miss the quietness of before. More grease maybe? Don’t want to overdo it. I rode it for 6 miles at a quick but not crazy pace, probably 6 out of 10 on intensity scale. It seemed to work fine so far. The old parts showed basically no wear on them.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Just a side note both my sets of 180exp are stock 36t and XD driver, fwiw.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

Out of a sudden my 240 EXT completely lost the engagement today. The ratchet got stuck pretty hard inside the shell with the spring fully compressed. I had to use a screwdriver to force it out, and was able to finish the ride.
As an owner of four DT 350 hubs, I must say I'm very disappointed with the EXT. I have not had a single problem ever with 350s. Next is the warranty claim.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

EdSawyer said:


> I greased mine pretty lightly when putting In the new parts. I didn't watch the video but did about the level of grease shown in the service manual they linked to via email. Used a brush too.
> 
> The hub is definitely louder now, probably twice as loud. I miss the quietness of before. More grease maybe? Don't want to overdo it. I rode it for 6 miles at a quick but not crazy pace, probably 6 out of 10 on intensity scale. It seemed to work fine so far. The old parts showed basically no wear on them.


More grease will definitely make it quieter. As long as you're not putting so much grease to the point of preventing the two ratchets from engaging, you should be fine. The moving ratchet getting stuck in the freehub body is not caused by too much grease. There's got to be something wrong with the freehub body.

My hub didn't start to lose engagement until about 280 miles. I think 6 miles is too early to tell if any problems will develop.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

2:01 said:


> Just quoting the link again for other folks. Maybe the OP can link it in the first post. I read through the thread and missed it the first time around.
> 
> Thanks for the link.


Thanks for the suggestion, done!

As I was fearing, some refurbished hubs still have the same problem!
Being a little bit lost in all the configurations mentioned above, it is interesting to clear out the following:

As any of you had problems with a EXP hub that is not in a DtSwiss shell? 
BikeAhead, Roval and other brands use DtSwiss mechanisms but they fit them in their own brand shell. As anyone had problems with this "third-party hubs with EXP inner mechanisms"? Or just with full DtSwiss parts?


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## Emax (Dec 4, 2005)

For the last 20 years I've been using a Hayes/Hugi hubset, that uses one spring and 2 ratchets in the rear hub. The difference from EXP is that the spring is on the hub side and not the freehub side, and that the ratchet in the freehub body is free to move in the freehub body grooves, though the hub shell side spring and rathchet press against it. This set up worked for me with 18T, 34T and 54T ratchets. I've always used heavy oil or light grease to lubricate the ratchets and never any issues. When I'm reading the posts here, the DT statement about surface quality etc, I can't help to think that the EXP design has some design flaw that makes it vulnerable to operating conditions that in the past never caused an issue. 
I've also used the Hayes/Hugi hubs with DTSwiss 340 freehubs that need a 2 spring set up and a spacer - with no issues at all. I wonder if anyone has ever experienced a stuck ratchet in a non-EXP DT Swiss hub... if not, then what other explanation for EXP failures can there be, other than a faulty design? Has their quality of manufacturing dropped in recent years?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

A few weeks back just around when this unfolded I ordered myself an old 240 rear as I had a new set of 54t ratchets here, ready to drop in and it was €50 cheaper than the new EXP hub. Nearly glad now.

Makes me wonder if this wear issue will pop up again prematurely... though picturing the workings of the design, you would think not. Hopefully just this batch of chocolate star ratchets.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Nande said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, done!
> 
> As I was fearing, some refurbished hubs still have the same problem!
> Being a little bit lost in all the configurations mentioned above, it is interesting to clear out the following:
> ...


 Mine was on a Roval wheelset with 180 EXP internals.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Nande said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, done!
> 
> As I was fearing, some refurbished hubs still have the same problem!
> Being a little bit lost in all the configurations mentioned above, it is interesting to clear out the following:
> ...


I am going to have to re read this thread now as I thought there was one person in this thread that has had the problem re-appear and that was using their own solution of new Star ratchets - not the full dt Swiss solution of the ratchets and the freehub ?


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

006_007 said:


> I am going to have to re read this thread now as I thought there was one person in this thread that has had the problem re-appear and that was using their own solution of new Star ratchets - not the full dt Swiss solution of the ratchets and the freehub ?


Seems like they only replaced the ratchet and not the freehub from what I read.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

I have two 180 EXP hubs. One of them failed last Friday. Sent DT Swiss an e-mail on Saturday. First thing this morning (Monday), I got a response from them asking for the serial numbers. I sent them the serial numbers and they replied within minutes that they're sending me 2 freehub bodies, and 2 sets of ratchets. They are also sending a pre-paid label and asked for the parts back. I guess if you can replace the ratchets yourself, you don't have to send the whole wheel in.

But I found this article in CyclingTips.com (DT Swiss acknowledges Ratchet EXP hub problems in new service bulletin - CyclingTips) saying that DT Swiss will send you a freehub body and ratchets if your hub is has the affected serial number but hasn't experience failure yet. But if it already experience failure, they will send you the ratchet thread ring and bearings too. For some reason, they are not sending me the ratchet thread ring and bearings, only the freehub body and ratchets

My advise is that if you have the affected hub and can replace the ratchets yourself, send DT Swiss an e-mail and get the replacement freehub body and ratchets BEFORE they fail. No need to wait until it fails to get it warrantied.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

suprteck said:


> Seems like they only replaced the ratchet and not the freehub from what I read.


I shared the parts replaced with my warranty work. Fixed and floating star nuts as well as the freehub body. The floating ratchet was lodged in my freehub body pretty good.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Yes I think he just dropped in a 54t floating ratchet without freehub change, and it seems like the problem originates in the freehub, which is why they send a new one amd tell you to toss the old one.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

I took a very close look between the old and new parts that DT sent for my two sets of 180 hubs. Other than some surface machining on the free-floating ratchet piece, I couldn’t really detect any difference whatsoever.


----------



## KVV (May 22, 2017)

EdSawyer said:


> I took a very close look between the old and new parts that DT sent for my two sets of 180 hubs. Other than some surface machining on the free-floating ratchet piece, I couldn't really detect any difference whatsoever.


I have not sent them an email yet about the ratchet that got stuck in the freehub body. Need to take the cassette off to read the serial. So far I have 3 complaints about my 240 EXP:

1. Ratchet got stuck inside the freehub body exactly once. I needed to force it out quite a bit. After that it worked for the rest of the ride. I'm pretty sure the inside was clean, since I serviced / lubricated it couple of rides before. The hub has ~200 miles.

2. The endcaps are way too loose. I was changing tire recently and the freehub / cassette just fell off. I wasn't even doing the "stans shake" at the moment. (this is why I needed to clean / lubricate it recently). I think they overdid the "disassemble by hands only" part. I'd prefer encaps to sit tighter. I don't like when you need to use pliers to wiggle them to remove, but a rubber ring to protect from sliding so easily can be helpful. When the engagement failed on the trail, I just put the wheel on the ground and lifted the cassette up. Didn't even need to hold the wheel doing so.

3. Why are main axle bearings so tight and uneven? They don't bind and the wheel can still rotate freely, but they are the worst compared to everything I had before (350s, i9, Hope Evo2). My 7 year old 350 is better than this. In fact every 350 I tried was super smooth. Is this specific to 240 because of stainless steel bearings?


----------



## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

I’m


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

Soooo. If I’ve got 1200 miles on my 240 exp hubs since Feb 1, I’m probably good, correct? I’m changing to fast tires next week, so I’ll pull off the cassette then, to check for that “1”.


----------



## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

juan_speeder said:


> Soooo. If I've got 1200 miles on my 240 exp hubs since Feb 1, I'm probably good, correct? I'm changing to fast tires next week, so I'll pull off the cassette then, to check for that "1".


I wouldn't count on that if your hub doesn't have that "1" in the serial number. The fact that they're sending out repair parts for hubs that haven't failed yet says something...


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

at least on the 180s the serial number is on the non-drive-side.


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

MattMay said:


> Yeh I don't think I've ever heard of bearings creaking.


My Torches creaked like crazy when the bearing blew after 1000 miles of hard riding. The shop knew exactly what it was. They gave me the old bearings and one was super fried, I forget which bearing. Rear hub.

They were supposed to have fixed the issue that causes this in the Hydra. I hope so, just got some.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

juan_speeder said:


> Soooo. If I've got 1200 miles on my 240 exp hubs since Feb 1, I'm probably good, correct? I'm changing to fast tires next week, so I'll pull off the cassette then, to check for that "1".


If you have your hubs since February it is almost for sure a "0" one. The "1" series seems to have appear much later than that. Are you sure you need to remove the cassette to check the serial number? In my 240s I can see them directly (using the iphone flashlight).

You are right, there is a high chance that your hubs are ok since nearly all problems have appeared way before that milage... though my last one is now 4.194km without issues and I am still not convinced! 
But the big question is: SHOULD YOU (AND I) ASK FOR THE REFURBISHING KIT?

there are hubs that have been refurbished and continued to fail engagement.
if we change parts in our presently "no problem working hubs", will they start to have problems after that?

I have no answer to that, unfortunately.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

The serial number can been seen on the hub, right in between the 6-bolt mount and the spokes. No need to take the cassette off.


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

2:01 said:


> The serial number can been seen on the hub, right in between the 6-bolt mount and the spokes. No need to take the cassette off.


Not the case with my centerlock version.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

juan_speeder said:


> Not the case with my centerlock version.


Yes, that's correct. Just pointing out in either case, cassette does not have to be removed.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

Just a PSA to others. I used that link and form but still hadn't heard back in 3 days. So I called and the tech was super helpful. He told me to email [email protected] 
I had a reply within 10 min. I'd suggest emailing if you hadn't seen a reply.

And as I said before, I am not a bit worried about the hub. DT is a quality company and I'll continue to use their products. 10+ years on the old DT240's with zero issues, while being generally neglected maintenance-wise. New platform, so issues are expected. They'll work it out.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

2:01 said:


> Just a PSA to others. I used that link and form but still hadn't heard back in 3 days. So I called and the tech was super helpful. He told me to email [email protected]
> I had a reply within 10 min. I'd suggest emailing if you hadn't seen a reply.
> 
> And as I said before, I am not a bit worried about the hub. DT is a quality company and I'll continue to use their products. 10+ years on the old DT240's with zero issues, while being generally neglected maintenance-wise. New platform, so issues are expected. They'll work it out.


I don't disagree with some of what you wrote. I have a number of bikes running last gen 240s and 350s and apart from the bearings in one set of 240s that crapped the bed within a year, all has been good.

I don't agree though that issues are to be expected. I am shocked that something this fundamental with what appears to be a 100% fail rate was not caught long ago - in testing, well before going prime time. And that buyers were not made aware the issue once known, long ago, instead of being left on their own to discover it and figure things out.

And why is there not a formal recall before someone gets seriously injured?

I am a big, long standing DT Swiss fan but I am not cutting these guys nearly the same amount of slack you are on this. They botched it at the outset and, IMHO, they are not handling this well at all.

I appreciate this won't be a popular opinion here (given the amount of very loyal DT customers), and not that anyone cares, but I for one won't be buying DT Swiss for my next wheel set. I don't need the potential hassle, especially during COVID.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I don't disagree with some of what you wrote. I have a number of bikes running last gen 240s and 350s and apart from the bearings in one set of 240s that crapped the bed within a year, all has been good.
> 
> I don't agree though that issues are to be expected. I am shocked that something this fundamental with what appears to be a 100% fail rate was not caught long ago - in testing, well before going prime time. And that buyers were not made aware the issue once known, long ago, instead of being left on their own to discover it and figure things out.
> 
> ...


Yup, it sucks having to deal with this, and being without the wheels for who know how long.

But I've had issues with pretty much every other manufacturer as well. My last set of Hope Pro's broke an axle because they used inferior aluminum. Last set of King hubs had slipping issues which the company told me to use motor oil to fix.

They all have quirks. If this is the only issue, I can live with that. But if problems persist, I'll definitely reconsider.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

My hub failed last Saturday. Completed the form on Sunday. Got an e-mail response from DT Swiss on Monday. And today, Wednesday, got the replacement parts.

I thought the parts would consist of the fixed ratchet, the floating ratchet, spring, spacer, washer and the freehub body. But to my surprise, it just came with the freehub body and the floating ratchet. They included their special grease too.

So for those of you who have the hubs affected, you do not need to send the whole wheel or hub back to DT Swiss. You can just request the repair parts and replace them yourself without any tools as there's no need to replace the fixed ratchet.

It's kind of odd they only sent the floating ratchet and not the fixed ratchet though. If there's a material detect causing premature wear on the ratchets, you'd think both ratchets would be affected...


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

I thought they would send you the replacement parts only before it failed. Once it failed I thought you had to send in the whole wheel


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

suprteck said:


> I thought they would send you the replacement parts only before it failed. Once it failed I thought you had to send in the whole wheel


Well, initially, they said if the hub failed already, they would be replacing the bearings and both ratchets. I guess not. My hub already failed.

Got a response back from DT Swiss saying only the finish of outer the floating ratchet had problems, scoring the inner splines of the freehub body. So only need to replace the floating ratchet and the freehub body.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Amazing!!! And strange... how DtSwiss policy changes so much from country to country.
Apparently in the US you get the replacement parts in 48h 
In Portugal you have to ship the wheel to the country distributor that then ships the wheel to DtSwiss... and the process backwards after. In total roughly 3 weeks without wheel.
It does seem really strange that only one ratchet is exchanged... would that be the case that some of you have made the refurbishind and continued to have the same problem?!


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Nande said:


> Amazing!!! And strange... how DtSwiss policy changes so much from country to country.
> Apparently in the US you get the replacement parts in 48h
> In Portugal you have to ship the wheel to the country distributor that then ships the wheel to DtSwiss... and the process backwards after. In total roughly 3 weeks without wheel.
> It does seem really strange that only one ratchet is exchanged... would that be the case that some of you have made the refurbishind and continued to have the same problem?!


I'm not sure if it's due to different policies in different countries. Maybe they asked to send the whole wheel in in the earlier days because they didn't know what was going on and wanted to take a look at the whole hub.

Now, I guess they narrowed it down to the outer surface of the floating ratchet scoring the splines in the freehub body. I can't imagine why they'd want the whole wheel back when you can easily replace those parts without special tools except for taking the cassette off.

Only time will tell if just replacing the floating ratchet and freehub body will work. I guess I'll report back if my hub fails again.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Are the ends of the teeth that interact with the freehub body chamfered at all on the new parts?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

RisingStar said:


> I'm not sure if it's due to different policies in different countries. Maybe they asked to send the whole wheel in in the earlier days because they didn't know what was going on and wanted to take a look at the whole hub.
> 
> Now, I guess they narrowed it down to the outer surface of the floating ratchet scoring the splines in the freehub body. I can't imagine why they'd want the whole wheel back when you can easily replace those parts without special tools except for taking the cassette off.
> 
> Only time will tell if just replacing the floating ratchet and freehub body will work. I guess I'll report back if my hub fails again.


The information I shared is fresh; just called today our local distributor. It is still the case that here you have to ship your wheel back.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

My buddy with his brand new $10k Switchblade has to send his wheel to Montreal. He was told it will take 2 months MINIMUM for him to get it back. Nice. This is Canada. The riding season is barely 2 months. 

As he said, "I don't normally get too wound up up about anything, but I'm #$%^ing [email protected]#$ed". I would be too. 

Why this was not caught before going prime time mid-COVID, why people were not made aware of the issue by DT Swiss instead of leaving them to their own devices to discover the issue and figure it out themselves, and why there is no recall before someone hurts themself, is all beyond me.

My LBS is apparently the largest single brick and mortar bike shop in Canada and they barely know what is going on here. 

Dt Swiss can't just ignore this. They need to own it. 

They lost me as a loyal customer. Not that they care, but I bet I'm not the only one.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

mtnbkrmike said:


> My buddy with his brand new $10k Switchblade has to send his wheel to Montreal. He was told it will take 2 months MINIMUM for him to get it back. Nice. This is Canada. The riding season is barely 2 months.
> 
> As he said, "I don't normally get too wound up up about anything, but I'm #$%^ing [email protected]#$ed". I would be too.
> 
> ...


Your are right, they took roughly 6 months from my initial complain here in the forum (I am probably patient 0, at least the first one to have publicly complained about this) to issue a statement. For sure that other users had the problem at that time and complained either locally at their bike shops or directly with DtSwiss. So, of course they know this issue since several months.
And it is highly unfair that our friends at the US get parts in 48h and we just rotten while waiting.
Most of a company's value today is its brand awareness. DtSwiss value is diving.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

trev aus said:


> 3 months old, about 3000km.
> grease- factory fill. Ratchet seized in the hub. Mechanic took it out, spring also took a bit of getting out. Re-assembled and it engages again. Not comfortable riding with a ticking time bomb so trying to have the freehub unit replaced through warranty.


Trev, I was reading this looong thread again and it seems your case was the one that the problem appeared the latest. Did your engagement failure appeared at about 3.000km for the first time? Or was it the case that it had happened some times before that but just a tiny failure that engaged immediately again?

Because it is now a general idea that all hubs are failling in the first hundereds of km, so your feedback would be appreciated.


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## MilRob (Sep 23, 2016)

I shipped my entire wheel to DT Swiss after mine showed issues in a 180 exp and they fixed and returned it to me quickly


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Nande said:


> Trev, I was reading this looong thread again and it seems your case was the one that the problem appeared the latest. Did your engagement failure appeared at about 3.000km for the first time? Or was it the case that it had happened some times before that but just a tiny failure that engaged immediately again?
> 
> Because it is now a general idea that all hubs are failling in the first hundereds of km, so your feedback would be appreciated.


For sure it is not all the hubs failing. I have a set that is not experiencing any issues. I know of 2 other riders in my area that have had zero issues.

How many people have these hubs with no issues? Internet forums are great for drawing attention to a situation but to say they are all failing ?

I am not worried if mine develop a problem. I have insurance. It's not ideal, but if I need to send these away then I can always use the spare set that I always have available for situations just like this.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> My buddy with his brand new $10k Switchblade has to send his wheel to Montreal. He was told it will take 2 months MINIMUM for him to get it back. Nice. This is Canada. The riding season is barely 2 months.


I hear if you have an $11k bike you get pushed to the front of the line.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Do not misunderstand me: when I said all hubs are failing in the first hundreds of km, I mean that all the hubs that are failing are doing so in the first hundreds of km! Not 100% of the EXP hubs are failing of course; I myself have one (the last I bought) that has more than 4.000km without failing, though it belongs to the serial number that have this issue.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Mine showed or rather emitted signs of failure from the first ride with the occasional crunch. Complete disengagement started happening after about 300-500km and now with warmer temperatures and my modified spare moving ratchet they have been fine. Nonetheless, I will still send the hub in for repair as this just should not happen with such a well knwon manufacturer as DT.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

These two pictures show the nature of the failure. As you can see, the left start ratchet's outer side looks more rough while the right ratchet is the new one and it looks more polished and smooth. Touching it, I can feel it has a smoother coating. The next picture shows the scoring of the inner splines of the freehub body.

I'm not sure if the hubs that haven't failed yet got a better finish or maybe it wasn't ridden hard enough to cause the scoring yet. But once the scoring happens, it will just get worse and worse. I also noticed that my shifting was getting worse as the freehub body seems looks and not sitting flush with hub, causing the cassette to be tilted.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

RisingStar said:


> I also noticed that my shifting was getting worse as the freehub body seems looks and not sitting flush with hub, causing the cassette to be tilted.


Uh, that claim needs a good photo. I'm a skeptic in this one.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

RisingStar said:


> These two pictures show the nature of the failure. As you can see, the left start ratchet's outer side looks more rough while the right ratchet is the new one and it looks more polished and smooth. Touching it, I can feel it has a smoother coating. The next picture shows the scoring of the inner splines of the freehub body.
> 
> I'm not sure if the hubs that haven't failed yet got a better finish or maybe it wasn't ridden hard enough to cause the scoring yet. But once the scoring happens, it will just get worse and worse. I also noticed that my shifting was getting worse as the freehub body seems looks and not sitting flush with hub, causing the cassette to be tilted.


Hello and thanks for the explanation and great pictures 
Regarding the hubs that did not fail, I can only share my experience with the last EXP I bought and has a 0 serial number: 4.186km up to now, nearly 100% ridden off-road with a LOT of hard climbing in rocks and roots, so I would say for sure with an above the average stress on all the drivetrain components.
I admit that being afraid to touch the hub (as this one is still working perfectly), I do not even want to pull the cassete out to look at the ratchets ... so for now I will not check the looks on mine and compare them to your pics. Eventually someone braver than me can do it?


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Nande said:


> Hello and thanks for the explanation and great pictures
> Regarding the hubs that did not fail, I can only share my experience with the last EXP I bought and has a 0 serial number: 4.186km up to now, nearly 100% ridden off-road with a LOT of hard climbing in rocks and roots, so I would say for sure with an above the average stress on all the drivetrain components.
> I admit that being afraid to touch the hub (as this one is still working perfectly), I do not even want to pull the cassete out to look at the ratchets ... so for now I will not check the looks on mine and compare them to your pics. Eventually someone braver than me can do it?


I have another 180 EXP hub that hasn't failed yet. It belongs to my son. He's 12 and has only 100 miles on it. I don't think he rides hard enough yet  . I'll be replacing his hub with the repair parts soon. I'll check if the original parts show the same scoring as mine. But just touching the ratchet with my bare hands, I can feel the coating or polish of the new ratchet feels much smoother and slippery than the old one.


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## La Nada (Mar 1, 2017)

Well my brand new 180 EXP just arrived from r2-bike and it's a "0." Confirmed with DT Swiss that it's from the bad batch. Kind of disappointing these are still being sold at this point.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

La Nada said:


> Well my brand new 180 EXP just arrived from r2-bike and it's a "0." Confirmed with DT Swiss that it's from the bad batch. Kind of disappointing these are still being sold at this point.


Got mine today, too. I'll have my new EXP ratchet by the end of the week.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

Update: Sent my wheel in last Thursday. Got it back yesterday (helps I’m in Utah). They did a complete overhaul. 
Hub definitely sounds louder. Got it together and went for a ride today. Play is gone. No issues with engagement. Knock on wood, all is well.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

For the US owners in here: email [email protected].

Mike Steele will email you back, ask for your serial number, and likely send you a new ratchet, grease and prepaid shipping return label for the old ratchet. They don't want any of the old product floating around.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

2:01 said:


> Update: Sent my wheel in last Thursday. Got it back yesterday (helps I'm in Utah). They did a complete overhaul.
> Hub definitely sounds louder. Got it together and went for a ride today. Play is gone. No issues with engagement. Knock on wood, all is well.


Let us have some feedback in a couple of weeks if all is still well.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Le Duke said:


> For the US owners in here: email [email protected].
> 
> Mike Steele will email you back, ask for your serial number, and likely send you a new ratchet, grease and prepaid shipping return label for the old ratchet. They don't want any of the old product floating around.


 Wish that was the case here in Portugal... I have to send the wheel to the distributor that will then send it to DtSwiss and back again... minimum 2 weeks, I would say nearly a month without wheel. That is the main reason why I am postponing the repairing of my "up to now" working hub.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Same situation in Finland and I’ve been postponing sending mine in for that exact reason.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Nande said:


> Wish that was the case here in Portugal... I have to send the wheel to the distributor that will then send it to DtSwiss and back again... minimum 2 weeks, I would say nearly a month without wheel. That is the main reason why I am postponing the repairing of my "up to now" working hub.


Yeah. It's unfortunate that there is such a different response from location to location. DT Swiss USA is 300 miles from my house, on the opposite side of the state here in CO. I anticipate getting home today and having the new ratchet for my hub in hand. That said, I won't be riding them for 6-8 weeks, at the earliest.


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## Kompik (Jun 3, 2021)

Nande said:


> Hi have a set of new DTswiss 240 EXP - 1.000km up to today.
> Since they turned 500km, the rear hub engagement his giving me problems:
> every once in a while the ratchet did not engage (loose wheel feeling) and suddenly engaged again.
> Recently, when the ratchet does not engage, it just stay loose... I have to stop, disassemble the rear wheel, pull the spring and ratchet out, assemble again and ride...
> ...


Same issue on my Roval wheel. DT180 internals.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Kompik said:


> Same issue on my Roval wheel. DT180 internals.


Hi.
When did you buy the wheels?
How much did you ride until symptoms appeared?


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## Charlie64 (Jan 1, 2021)

Nande said:


> Hi have a set of new DTswiss 240 EXP - 1.000km up to today.
> Since they turned 500km, the rear hub engagement his giving me problems:
> every once in a while the ratchet did not engage (loose wheel feeling) and suddenly engaged again.
> Recently, when the ratchet does not engage, it just stay loose... I have to stop, disassemble the rear wheel, pull the spring and ratchet out, assemble again and ride...
> ...


It would seem this has become a known problem...

I've had similar issue on my mtb with 240 and the 54 rachet. The rachet was getting hung up on the freehub body. No engaging properly. The distributor replaced the freehub body with a STEEL freehub body. Work great now. 
I am dually concerned now as I've recently purchased DT SWISS 180 EXP hubs which will be laced to We Are One FACTION rims with BERD spokes. Yikes did I make a huge mistake......


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Charlie64 said:


> It would seem this has become a known problem...
> 
> I've had similar issue on my mtb with 240 and the 54 rachet. The rachet was getting hung up on the freehub body. No engaging properly. The distributor replaced the freehub body with a STEEL freehub body. Work great now.
> I am dually concerned now as I've recently purchased DT SWISS 180 EXP hubs which will be laced to We Are One FACTION rims with BERD spokes. Yikes did I make a huge mistake......


Not a big deal. Write DT Swiss an email. They'll send you this, free of charge:










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

I got my first failure on Saturday, after around 500 miles on a wheelset I purchased from NOBL a few weeks ago. Had a long walk home, then googled this and was shocked to learn about the recall (or whatever DT Swiss is calling it). Was able to get the ratchet unstuck, went for a ride on Sunday... and it happened again.

The $40 hub that came OEM on my bike never gave me any issues for 3,500 km, but when I purchase a hub and pay 10X that price it fails almost immediately... There's a parable about the modern bike industry in there somewhere. I picked DT Swiss for my first high-end hub because of their reputation for being simple and reliable... I'm regretting that decision now!

In any case I'm in touch with the DT Swiss customer support folks. For riders based in the USA: Can you tell me what happens now? It seems they will send me a new floating ratchet and freewheel so I can fix this issue at home - is that correct? And most importantly: Will that fix the issue for good? Can anyone confirm they've not had further problems once they get the new replacement parts?

Thanks!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Leyenda, sorry to hear that.
If you are based in the US, then it seems to be the fastest service: they will ship you the parts and you can do it at home as it supposedly a simple process. If you are based somewhere else, then it can take anything from a week to 3 months, depending on the country.

Not so good news is that there are already reported cases of fixed hubs that failed again... 
Most probably there is a minority of hubs that are having engaging issues, and from those fixed only an even smaller minority continues to have engagement issues. That is to say, though, that the probability that your fixed hub fails again for the same reason is more than 0%...

Hopefully DtSwiss will soon reevaluate their standing on this issue and tune their strategy...


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## Emax (Dec 4, 2005)

If the fixed hubs are failing then the most likely issue is the shape of the new ratchet ring, which has an L profile vs the old design which was either solid or U shaped. The old design is way more rigid, and the new design clearly is not. That's why it gets stuck in the freehub body under certain circumstances it gets wedged - if it was stiff that wouldn't happen. I'm sure that surface quality helps the ratchet move up or down, but ultimately if it was more "boxed" design this issue wouldn't come up...


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

Emax said:


> If the fixed hubs are failing then the most likely issue is the shape of the new ratchet ring, which has an L profile vs the old design which was either solid or U shaped. The old design is way more rigid, and the new design clearly is not. That's why it gets stuck in the freehub body under certain circumstances it gets wedged - if it was stiff that wouldn't happen. I'm sure that surface quality helps the ratchet move up or down, but ultimately if it was more "boxed" design this issue wouldn't come up...


What do you mean by "ratchet ring"? Here is an exploded view of the current EXP design, taken from a DT Swiss product manual:


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Part #3 in that diagram


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## Emax (Dec 4, 2005)

Leyenda said:


> What do you mean by "ratchet ring"? Here is an exploded view of the current EXP design, taken from a DT Swiss product manual:
> View attachment 1933817


Part number 3 on the above diagram. The side of the ring opposed to the engagement teeth is open to acommodate the spring, in the old design it wasn't open like that - so it made the ring stiffer and less likely to flex.


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

Emax said:


> Part number 3 on the above diagram. The side of the ring opposed to the engagement teeth is open to acommodate the spring, in the old design it wasn't open like that - so it made the ring stiffer and less likely to flex.


If that is indeed the issue, seems like it would be an easy fix: go back to a solid loose ratchet with a slightly smaller spring.

The real issue here though, is that we're meant to spend $400 on a hub and then play armchair / amateur engineer. 1. DT Swiss should have thoroughly tested the EXP design before releasing it (I can't believe I need to state something this obvious), and 2. even if there was some kind of ****-up there, the EXP design has been on the 180 for what, 3 years?! How did they not figure this problem out during that time?!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

So, it seems that your idea is that the loose ratchet, being hollow inside is less rigid than the older version and therefore it may flex a little more than expected thus getting stuck.
Is that it?

Being that the case it seems hard to fix this issue with the “kit” they are sending, unless the ratchet is made of/or machined into a much stiffer part.

One question for all of us: what is probably the difference between the hubs - from the same 0 serial number batch - that never had issues from those who had?! Could it be that some are machined differently or are somehow stiffer? It doesn’t make a lot sense to me... it would be interesting, I believe for all of us, to understand what makes some hubs fail and other (in theory exactly the same) work flawlessly.

Any comments/suggestions?


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I still think the issue is the fit between the freehub body and the moving ratchet, the spring is too big in diameter and these combined with flex in different parts of the hub like the axle. Mavic 360 has a similar design but it works fine as the spring is placed so that it can’t get stuck inside the moving ratchet.


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## Emax (Dec 4, 2005)

Nande said:


> So, it seems that your idea is that the loose ratchet, being hollow inside is less rigid than the older version and therefore it may flex a little more than expected thus getting stuck.
> Is that it?
> 
> Being that the case it seems hard to fix this issue with the "kit" they are sending, unless the ratchet is made of/or machined into a much stiffer part.
> ...


The old ratchets were hollow too - sot that's not it. But if you were to cut them in half you can see a U profile - the new floating ratchet is shaped like an L (when you cut it in half) - so I think the part facing away from the stationary ratchet is now prone to flex, since there is nothing supporting it on the non-engagement side. If you think about how the ratchet gets stuck in the freehub - either the freehub or the ratchet have to change shape for that to happen. I doubt it would be the freehub, so I think it has to be the floating ratchet that gets slightly ovalized and that causes it to get stuck/wedged. The deformation doesn't need to be significant, and I'm sure any surface imperfections may add to the problem - but I'm betting that the problem is the shape of that floating ratchet.


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## joeliolio (Apr 10, 2021)

I first posted on here at #162 a couple of months ago. At that point, I had just had the disengagement issue on my XMC1200 wheel on a couple of rides and had smacked my knee hard on the bars twice because of it and nearly lost control. Could've been so much worse! I was deeply unhappy about the situation and didn't know how things were going to pan out around getting a fix.

I've now read the subsequent 268 posts in this thread and I am struck by several things. Why are some people so damn complacent about this issue? - I just don't get it. One guy said 'I'm not worried about it' (you should be) and someone else said 'I've got insurance' (maybe the same guy, I forget) - I mean, seriously? How can you not be worried when the consequences and potential for serious injury are so high?? What insurance was Mr Billy Big Balls talking about, cos he sure ain't gonna be able to claim his life back from DT when his hub fails at the critical moment and sends him careering into a ravine or under the wheels of a truck is he? Another guy said the issue was happening on a bike he bought for his son to ride (the kid had already crashed once because of the disengagement issue but luckily wasn't hurt) - dude, why are you not screaming at DT for knowing they have released a system to market which is endangering your son's life?!

I honestly can't understand it. I have no loyalty to DT; I haven't used their parts before. I'm sure that 99% of the time their gear is great. I don't really care though if they have a great reputation. What I do care about is that they are completely aware there is an issue, must understand that it is potentially hugely dangerous, have admitted to a miscalculation of tolerances (now supposedly rectified) in the manufacturing process of this system (unacceptable that the tolerances were miscalculated in the first place), but are now simply resolving the issue by sending people new parts to fit to their bikes themselves (hmmm, safe much? WTF?!), yet seemingly don't deem the ongoing risk for any 'unfixed' parts to cause someone serious injury (or even death) great enough to warrant them issuing an urgent notice to all customers and suppliers and recalling the product as unsafe. Unbelievable.

I'm finally getting my wheel back from YT UK next week after a month or more of it being with DT - at no point has there been any acknowledgment from YT that this is a known problem (I find it hard to believe they don't know, but it doesn't seem like DT are going to any great lengths to publicise this potentially disastrous fault with the Ratchet EXP system, so maybe they don't, but I will definitely be quizzing them about it when I go down there). I had to pretty much demand that YT lent me a wheel so I could keep riding while mine went off to DT for inspection, which I didn't like doing (I don't want to be 'That guy') but I was damned if I was going to be left without a ride for an indeterminate amount of time because of a faulty part when I'd already waited 5 months for the bike to arrive in the first place. To be fair to YT though, they came through, and lent me another wheel, albeit another DT one but with the older, two ratchet system. I've been riding it now for around 200 miles with absolutely no issues and, more significantly, whilst being (relatively) safe in the knowledge that it wasn't going to fail and lead to some horrendous crash. If I don't feel confident though that my vastly more expensive wheel has been 'fixed' satisfactorily (how am I going to??) I'll be hanging on to the loaned one and demanding some money back.

YT tell me that DT have replaced 'a part', and I was almost ready to be happy with that until I read what's been going on since I first posted in this thread. I am now totally disillusioned, have no confidence in DT for the way they have handled an issue that is clearly dangerous, and am pretty sure I am now never going to be able to ride the newly 'fixed' wheel (no matter what they say they've done to it) with any confidence at all. I don't want to be in constant fear of freehub disengagement - yes, it might happen when you're pootling about in the garden, and be of no consequence at all other than being mildly irritating, but it could also happen when you're at full pelt, right at the edge of control, needing to have absolute and complete faith in the capability and mechanical integrity of your bike...and then boom, you put the power down, your cranks spin freely, your foot comes off the pedal, you crumple against the bars with no idea which of those trees is going to be that one that brings you to a bone crushing halt, or which craggy geological feature might be the first to rip into your flesh as you smash into the ground.

It also could just as easily happen to your son while he's riding, or your daughter, or your wife, husband, best mate....in fact, it could happen to absolutely anyone and it doesn't matter who they are at the end of the day, if they get hurt because their freehub failed and they didn't know there was anything wrong with it because DT failed to properly publicise a manufacturing defect, contact all their suppliers and recall the product, then DT are liable. End of. 

Sort your s**t out DT....or are you waiting for someone to sue you first?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

joeliolio said:


> I first posted on here at #162 a couple of months ago. At that point, I had just had the disengagement issue on my XMC1200 wheel on a couple of rides and had smacked my knee hard on the bars twice because of it and nearly lost control. Could've been so much worse! I was deeply unhappy about the situation and didn't know how things were going to pan out around getting a fix.
> 
> I've now read the subsequent 268 posts in this thread and I am struck by several things. Why are some people so damn complacent about this issue? - I just don't get it. One guy said 'I'm not worried about it' (you should be) and someone else said 'I've got insurance' (maybe the same guy, I forget) - I mean, seriously? How can you not be worried when the consequences and potential for serious injury are so high?? What insurance was Mr Billy Big Balls talking about, cos he sure ain't gonna be able to claim his life back from DT when his hub fails at the critical moment and sends him careering into a ravine or under the wheels of a truck is he? Another guy said the issue was happening on a bike he bought for his son to ride (the kid had already crashed once because of the disengagement issue but luckily wasn't hurt) - dude, why are you not screaming at DT for knowing they have released a system to market which is endangering your son's life?!
> 
> ...


The insurance I have is even if my wheelset isnoutnof commission for however long it takes for dt to sort out it won't stop me riding as I have a backup wheelset (insurance). Was directed more at the comments about not being able to ride be so inconvenient first world situation.

Excellent post though. Keep us informed if you have further problems.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

joeliolio said:


> I first posted on here at #162 a couple of months ago. At that point, I had just had the disengagement issue on my XMC1200 wheel on a couple of rides and had smacked my knee hard on the bars twice because of it and nearly lost control. Could've been so much worse! I was deeply unhappy about the situation and didn't know how things were going to pan out around getting a fix.
> 
> I've now read the subsequent 268 posts in this thread and I am struck by several things. Why are some people so damn complacent about this issue? - I just don't get it. One guy said 'I'm not worried about it' (you should be) and someone else said 'I've got insurance' (maybe the same guy, I forget) - I mean, seriously? How can you not be worried when the consequences and potential for serious injury are so high?? What insurance was Mr Billy Big Balls talking about, cos he sure ain't gonna be able to claim his life back from DT when his hub fails at the critical moment and sends him careering into a ravine or under the wheels of a truck is he? Another guy said the issue was happening on a bike he bought for his son to ride (the kid had already crashed once because of the disengagement issue but luckily wasn't hurt) - dude, why are you not screaming at DT for knowing they have released a system to market which is endangering your son's life?!
> 
> ...


Joeliolio, thanks for your sharing. I agree on the complacent comment. Most of us should be much more pissed off by this!
DtSwiss should have a clearer announcement and something much closer to a total recall. It seems that luckily it still did not happen, but someone can get severely injured by a failure that is already known!

And DtSwiss is not treating this fast enough nor professional enough: in the US you get parts very quickly but you have to fix yourself a potentially harmful failure (not a good idea); in other countries you have to wait way too long, from a couple of weeks to several months! And usually from a problem that appeared in your new set of wheels that you already had to wait for them!!

If I was a hub manufacturer, I would see this as an opportunity to step up and steal a big chunk of DtSwiss market by making clear statements about reliability and after sales service, and would make pressure on wheel brands to use my hub instead of the EXP...

I am on the market for another wheel set and the bike store I usually go to just preordered a Roval Carbon SL that will arrive in a couple of months as they say it should be the perfect set for me... I will decide then if I shall keep them or not, as they too come with the EXP, that I have no idea today if they solve this or not!


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## joeliolio (Apr 10, 2021)

006_007 said:


> The insurance I have is even if my wheelset isnoutnof commission for however long it takes for dt to sort out it won't stop me riding as I have a backup wheelset (insurance). Was directed more at the comments about not being able to ride be so inconvenient first world situation.
> 
> Excellent post though. Keep us informed if you have further problems.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk


Thanks, I was a bit on my soap box but I feel strongly about this and will definitely be contacting DT Swiss directly (as I think should others on this thread) for some kind of assurance that I/we can go all out on our rides without the fear of a mechanically induced injury causing incident due to their product. RE. your 'insurance' ah, I got it now, thanks for clarifying (I'd read a lot of posts at that point....sorry for referring to you as Billy Big Balls  I don't have 'insurance' - either personal injury or a back up wheel set unfortunately. That's why I pushed so hard to get a loaner wheel from YT.

I will post again once I have my wheel back....hopefully not from hospital!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Sorry, but if you can’t swap a star ratchet on your own, you probably shouldn’t ride a bike on public trails.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## joeliolio (Apr 10, 2021)

Le Duke said:


> Sorry, but if you can't swap a star ratchet on your own, you probably shouldn't ride a bike on public trails.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True, but there was talk on here of DT providing more than just the ratchet, along with needing to buy tools, etc. The point really though is that people shouldn't have to fix stuff themselves


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

joeliolio said:


> True, but there was talk on here of DT providing more than just the ratchet, along with needing to buy tools, etc. The point really though is that people shouldn't have to fix stuff themselves


Do you want to send you entire wheel both directions instead of them sending a tiny piece of metal and a tube of grease one way? For a 30 second fix?

Tools? For what? You need two hands.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

No tools required to swap a free float ratchet amd freehub. There was some early supposition that the pressed-in ratchet might need replacing but that is not necessary since they give you a whole new freehub and instruct you to dispose of the old one. DT has both a step by step pictorial as well as a video. Maybe a light brush to apply grease they provide but that’s it.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I would be more than happy to replace parts myself if this was an option here in Europe. Sadly, it’s not.


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## RocketKid (Jun 29, 2019)

What a huge disappointment! Brand new Pivot Switchblade with less than 75 miles on it and this happens&#8230;a full recall should be performed.

What sucks even more is the failure occurred during a technical climb and now there's a nice gouge on the chainstay from me going down and it bouncing off a rock. Just glad I wasn't hurt.

My last switchblade had i9, what a great hub. Hearing that repaired hubs are also failing gives me little confidence in DT.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

joeliolio said:


> True, but there was talk on here of DT providing more than just the ratchet, along with needing to buy tools, etc. The point really though is that people shouldn't have to fix stuff themselves


Just relax.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

RocketKid said:


> What a huge disappointment! Brand new Pivot Switchblade with less than 75 miles on it and this happens&#8230;a full recall should be performed.
> 
> What sucks even more is the failure occurred during a technical climb and now there's a nice gouge on the chainstay from me going down and it bouncing off a rock. Just glad I wasn't hurt.
> 
> My last switchblade had i9, what a great hub. Hearing that repaired hubs are also failing gives me little confidence in DT.


RocketKid, glad you were not hurt!
You are right, DtSwiss may solve the issue of the hub (still to be confirmed ), but they are not paying for neither our disappointment nor for any damage to our bike, ourselves or others!


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

I wish everyone success in solving this problem. I want to share my experience. A year ago we collected wheels for the highway at 180 hubs. The first rare problems appeared after 3000 km. Breakdowns began to appear, accompanied by a crunching sound with a sharp or very strong pressure on the pedal. I did not notice any problems with uniform rotation. After 6500 km, there were already regular problems. Now, during uniform rotation, the pedals begin to rotate freely, gear shifting in most cases helps, but not always, it was necessary to repeatedly disassemble the hub. This is very dangerous and caused a strong fall at a high speed of a comrade sitting on the wheel. He just didn’t have time to react, but my deceleration. Be careful, you can not only get hurt yourself, but also cripple others. DT swiss sent me a replacement hub housing and
the ratchet (parts 3 and 7 from # 424) is very fast. A week has passed since my request, as I have already learned the details. I live in Russia, I was sent from a representative office in Poland. Maybe it helped someone, but not me. After replacement, breakdowns appeared even with slight pressure on the pedal. Here is the serial number of my hub P1972542 298 DTP N 10023514


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

d_vzhik said:


> I wish everyone success in solving this problem. I want to share my experience. A year ago we collected wheels for the highway at 180 hubs. The first rare problems appeared after 3000 km. Breakdowns began to appear, accompanied by a crunching sound with a sharp or very strong pressure on the pedal. I did not notice any problems with uniform rotation. After 6500 km, there were already regular problems. Now, during uniform rotation, the pedals begin to rotate freely, gear shifting in most cases helps, but not always, it was necessary to repeatedly disassemble the hub. This is very dangerous and caused a strong fall at a high speed of a comrade sitting on the wheel. He just didn't have time to react, but my deceleration. Be careful, you can not only get hurt yourself, but also cripple others. DT swiss sent me a replacement hub housing and
> the ratchet (parts 3 and 7 from # 424) is very fast. A week has passed since my request, as I have already learned the details. I live in Russia, I was sent from a representative office in Poland. Maybe it helped someone, but not me. After replacement, breakdowns appeared even with slight pressure on the pedal. Here is the serial number of my hub P1972542 298 DTP N 10023514


Hi, thanks for sharing.
Are you sure your hub is the EXP version? Because, according to your serial number, your hub is neither the "0" defective batch nor the "1" corrected batch. You have a 9


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

Absolutely ratchet exp 180 12 × 142


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

here are the names on the case


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

here are the names on the case


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

wanted to add a photo, but something went wrong, apparently there are not enough rights. Two unnecessary posts were created instead, sorry


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

@d_vzhik I understood your hubs are on a road bike, not MTB, is that correct?

Maybe the numbering is different between MTB and Road hubs...?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

DtSwiss statement refers specifically to the “0” serial number batch as the defective one. 
This is the first time I hear about a EXP hub that is neither a 0 nor a 1 
Just to double check: is your hub a full DtSwiss hub? I mean not another brand that has a DtSwiss mechanism (such as Roval per example).
Anyone else in this thread has a EXP hub with a serial number different from 0 and 1?


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Nande said:


> DtSwiss statement refers specifically to the "0" serial number batch as the defective one.
> This is the first time I hear about a EXP hub that is neither a 0 nor a 1
> Just to double check: is your hub a full DtSwiss hub? I mean not another brand that has a DtSwiss mechanism (such as Roval per example).
> Anyone else in this thread has a EXP hub with a serial number different from 0 and 1?


DT Swiss's EXP Maintenance page says only serial numbers with "1" in the middle are not affected. Anything else is affected. They only used "0" as an example. Both of my hubs had a number other than "1".

"Hubs (wheels as well as components) which have a "1" in the middle of the production code (e.g.: P2079940 3*1*8 DTP N 10027719) already have internals with an increased surface quality.* Hubs with a different number in the middle of the production code*, e.g. a "0" (e.g.: P2079940 3*0*8 DTP N 10027719), have internals with standard surface requirements and could therefore potentially be affected by earlier wear and tear. "


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

RisingStar, you are right! My mistake as both myself and most people around here are mentioning the “0” batch. Only batch “1” is unaffected!
I was misleading people, thanks for the correction.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Nande said:


> RisingStar, you are right! My mistake as both myself and most people around here are mentioning the "0" batch. Only batch "1" is unaffected!
> I was misleading people, thanks for the correction.


You are forgiven. Keep leading the protest - get us the changes from DT Swiss!!!!


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

[QUOTE = "Verttii, post: 15331837, member: 454500"]
[USER = 912573] @d_vzhik [/ USER] Я так понимаю, что ваши ступицы установлены на шоссейном велосипеде, а не на МТБ, верно?

Может быть, нумерация МТБ и Дорожных хабов разная ...?
[/ЦИТИРОВАТЬ]


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

[QUOTE = "Verttii, post: 15331837, member: 454500"]
[USER = 912573] @d_vzhik [/ USER] Я так понимаю, что ваши ступицы установлены на шоссейном велосипеде, а не на МТБ, верно?

Может быть, нумерация МТБ и Дорожных хабов разная ...?
[/ЦИТИРОВАТЬ]


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

That's right, I have a road bike hub and there are probably lot numbering differences. Nevertheless, the vnutryanka is the same and the problems are similar. My flawed bushing lasted 6,500 km before replacing parts, after which the situation became even worse. This is what I wanted to draw your attention to. It is not a fact that replacing the gear and housing yourself will solve the problem. Probably both spring and housing ratchets need to be replaced.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Therefore the core question remains in my opinion:
IF one has a hub that is not a “1” (meaning that it belongs to a problematic batch) AND still have no issues with it, SHOULD one contact DtSwiss to replace parts OR let it be as it is… which is less prone to failure?!   

This is a question that should not exist! DtSwiss, step up!


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

I have already suffered so much with this bushing that I am considering version 350, as I have not yet had time to spoil it with the new exp technology. And the fact that the problem with exp was supposedly solved in new versions with "1" is still hard to believe and rollback of 1000 or even 3000 km is not an indicator. After 3000 km, the first signs of a malfunction only began to appear.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

D_vzhik you are one of the very few that had problems after the first 1.000km. Nearly everybody has the engagement failure appear anywhere from the 1st ride to a few hundreds km.

It is important to know that there are cases where only after several thousands km does the problem appear!
As I have already several times stated, my new EXP (also from a defective batch) is now 4.653km and still flawless. 

Will be very relevant to learn if someone with a hub that was working made the fix (to be reassured that it would not happen) and had the engagement failure AFTER the fix…


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Nande said:


> Therefore the core question remains in my opinion:
> IF one has a hub that is not a "1" (meaning that it belongs to a problematic batch) AND still have no issues with it, SHOULD one contact DtSwiss to replace parts OR let it be as it is&#8230; which is less prone to failure?!
> 
> This is a question that should not exist! DtSwiss, step up!


If you're in the US or if they don't require that you send the whole wheel in, I'd contact them and request the parts just in case. At least in the US, they'll send you the parts with no questions asked if your serial number doesn't have the "1", even if it hasn't failed yet. If it never fails, then consider yourself lucky and you got a free freehub body and floating ratchet as spares.

One of my hubs hasn't failed yet but I replaced the parts anyways. I can tell the new floating ratchet's surface/coating feels different than the old one. I think it's just a matter of time the old ratchet would score the freehub body causing the ratchet to get stuck. Why take chances and have it fail on the trails...


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

One thing I can say for sure is that after replacing parts, there were more problems. The old parts were thoroughly inspected before being replaced. Gear teeth without visible damage. With circular pedaling, everything is fine, but if you just release the load, then the next time you turn it on, there is a breakdown. It turns out that without load, the contact density between the ratchets decreases. By the way, I forgot to say that in my hub the spring can only be put on one side, if you turn it over, then in the frame it blocks the freehab and it stops rotating. Apparently the spring does not move smoothly and bites it between the ratchet and the washer.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

d_vzhik said:


> One thing I can say for sure is that after replacing parts, there were more problems. The old parts were thoroughly inspected before being replaced. Gear teeth without visible damage. With circular pedaling, everything is fine, but if you just release the load, then the next time you turn it on, there is a breakdown. It turns out that without load, the contact density between the ratchets decreases. By the way, I forgot to say that in my hub the spring can only be put on one side, if you turn it over, then in the frame it blocks the freehab and it stops rotating. Apparently the spring does not move smoothly and bites it between the ratchet and the washer.


You might have other problems that are unrelated to the EXP engagement problem caused by the free-floating ratchet surface not up to standards.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

RisingStar said:


> If you're in the US or if they don't require that you send the whole wheel in, I'd contact them and request the parts just in case. At least in the US, they'll send you the parts with no questions asked if your serial number doesn't have the "1", even if it hasn't failed yet. If it never fails, then consider yourself lucky and you got a free freehub body and floating ratchet as spares.
> 
> One of my hubs hasn't failed yet but I replaced the parts anyways. I can tell the new floating ratchet's surface/coating feels different than the old one. I think it's just a matter of time the old ratchet would score the freehub body causing the ratchet to get stuck. Why take chances and have it fail on the trails...


Yep I did that exact thing early on as a preventative measure, for both fairly new wheelsets, one road and one mtb.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

RisingStar said:


> If you're in the US or if they don't require that you send the whole wheel in, I'd contact them and request the parts just in case. At least in the US, they'll send you the parts with no questions asked if your serial number doesn't have the "1", even if it hasn't failed yet. If it never fails, then consider yourself lucky and you got a free freehub body and floating ratchet as spares.
> 
> One of my hubs hasn't failed yet but I replaced the parts anyways. I can tell the new floating ratchet's surface/coating feels different than the old one. I think it's just a matter of time the old ratchet would score the freehub body causing the ratchet to get stuck. Why take chances and have it fail on the trails...


It should not be the case that I wanted to say this&#8230; but you guys in the US, with such easy and fast access to the "repairing kit", should just ask for the and send it to us poor guys in Europe that are stuck with the idea of being way too many weeks without wheel


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## Lornholio (Mar 5, 2013)

I emailed DT Swiss France yesterday as I have a 240 EXP with a serial number identified as potentially problematic, built but unridden. They requested a photo showing the serial number and my sales receipt and will send a new floating ratchet to fit myself.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Lornholio said:


> I emailed DT Swiss France yesterday as I have a 240 EXP with a serial number identified as potentially problematic, built but unridden. They requested a photo showing the serial number and my sales receipt and will send a new floating ratchet to fit myself.


That's great. But hopefully you get the freehub body too. They should give you a freehub body, not just the floating ratchet, unless you have a new, unridden wheel. Otherwise, the freehub body may be scored already even if it's not causing the ratchet to stick.


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## Lornholio (Mar 5, 2013)

RisingStar said:


> That's great. But hopefully you get the freehub body too. They should give you a freehub body, not just the floating ratchet, unless you have a new, unridden wheel. Otherwise, the freehub body may be scored already even if it's not causing the ratchet to stick.


Yep, unridden wheels I built a couple of months ago (still waiting for my frame). Only the floating ratchet needs replaced though it seems? I trust DT, but can anyone confirm that the issue is only with the floating ratchet not the threaded piece?


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I’m still not buying the “it’s a surface treatment / roughness issue” explanation. The real problem will be the fits between the parts, which are quite loose, and potential flex in the system. I would not be surprised if the “fixed” hubs start to fail soon as well.


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## mtbbikefreedom (Apr 5, 2021)

MTB Engineer said:


> I'm still not buying the "it's a surface treatment / roughness issue" explanation. The real problem will be the fits between the parts, which are quite loose, and potential flex in the system. I would not be surprised if the "fixed" hubs start to fail soon as well.


After fixing the problem I have done about 250 km and it works perfectly!!!!
We will continue to wait, but the DT Swiss service in Spain has told me that none of the wheels they have fixed have returned to them.


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

Snake4u said:


> After fixing the problem I have done about 250 km and it works perfectly!!!!
> We will continue to wait, but the DT Swiss service in Spain has told me that none of the wheels they have fixed have returned to them.


This is great news, please keep us updated


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Lornholio said:


> Yep, unridden wheels I built a couple of months ago (still waiting for my frame). Only the floating ratchet needs replaced though it seems? I trust DT, but can anyone confirm that the issue is only with the floating ratchet not the threaded piece?


I don't think anyone can realistically confirm anything since not enough time has past yet. I can only tell you that I didn't see any damage on the threaded ratchet or on the surfaces of the floating ratchet. I only saw damage on the inner splines of the freehub body.

I didn't notice any apparent difference between the new freehub and the old one. Who knows if they changed something on the new one.

I've got about 120 miles on the new ratchet and so far so good. But my original one lasted about 350 miles without problems.


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

I got in touch with DT USA about my 240 exp hub on Thursday afternoon, and had parts on the way by Friday morning. Since I have 1400 miles on the hub, DT thought it would be fine, but as things go, it started to skip on my Friday afternoon ride. I guess I’ll be down for a few days, which is a bummer because I’m doing the Silver Rush 50 in exactly 4 weeks ( Trying to get into Leadville next year, for my 50th revolution of our star) but I can road ride, trail run, and swim so I’m not going to stress about it.

Better now than during an A race.


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

Did everyone’s “repair kit” come with a new spring?


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## d_vzhik (Jun 9, 2021)

They sent me a floating ratchet, freehab and grease. They promised to send the spring when I turned to them again.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Thank you all for the valuable input given about failures, repair delays and more recently about how repaired hubs are behaving. 

Information contained here is of utmost importance to all of us with DtSwiss EXP hubs (or thinking about buying one). 

It has also been a reference guide to some store owners that little knew about this issue when angry/disappointed owners walked in. (Got some private messages about this).

Let’s keep this updated


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## forward (Apr 7, 2016)

In my case, I had been riding xmc 1200 180 exp wheel for about 4000km without any problems. When the info on exp issues came out on dt swiss webpage, I immediately contacted dt swiss. Then I checked my freehub body and it had silver markings on black surface, in the part where the floating ratchet sits. I took my wheel to lbs and they sent it for service. After 1 week I received my wheel back. Service department had replaced all parts inside the rear hub, except the axle. 

Now after 2000km of riding I checked the freehub and lubed it with dt swiss special grease. I noticed that the spring was different. It is much stronger to engage and the metal color in it is little bit like brass. I do not know if it had colored from special grease but the original one was not like that. Now the freehub body inside is totally black after 2000km, no markings. Freehub sound is much sharper, louder and consistent. Everything works perfectly.


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## jCheng (Oct 6, 2020)

So got about 20mi in with the replacement driver and it's still failing.

I'll have to swap the ratchet ring for the hub and see if that fixes it but that requires buying the stupid tool or taking it to a shop.

I'll see if local shops have the tool... getting ridiculous now.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

jCheng said:


> So got about 20mi in with the replacement driver and it's still failing.
> 
> I'll have to swap the ratchet ring for the hub and see if that fixes it but that requires buying the stupid tool or taking it to a shop.
> 
> I'll see if local shops have the tool... getting ridiculous now.


What kind of failure are you experiencing? Is it slipping or is there a total loss of engagement? Do you notice any scoring of the surface of the fixed ratchet?

The failure I experienced was total loss engagement. This was caused by the floating ratchet being stuck in the freehub body and not making contact with the fixed ratchet. Replacing the fixed ratchet wouldn't fix it in this case.


----------



## KVV (May 22, 2017)

RisingStar said:


> What kind of failure are you experiencing? Is it slipping or is there a total loss of engagement? Do you notice any scoring of the surface of the fixed ratchet?
> 
> The failure I experienced was total loss engagement. This was caused by the floating ratchet being stuck in the freehub body and not making contact with the fixed ratchet. Replacing the fixed ratchet wouldn't fix it in this case.


The stuck ratchet is exactly what happened to me. It never skipped and I have not seen any degradation of the ratchet teeth. Until one day it just lost the engagement instantly and completely.
I contacted DT and explained it. I guess since I also complained about very tight bearings (which is true), they asked to send them the whole wheel. It's on the way to Colorado now.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

KVV said:


> The stuck ratchet is exactly what happened to me. It never skipped and I have not seen any degradation of the ratchet teeth. Until one day it just lost the engagement instantly and completely.
> I contacted DT and explained it. I guess since I also complained about very tight bearings (which is true), they asked to send them the whole wheel. It's on the way to Colorado now.


Yeah, I didn't see any degradation in the ratchet teeth either. I did see scratches or scoring in the inner spline of the freehub body where the floating ratchet moves up and down.
I have the 180 EXP with ceramic bearings and didn't notice any tight bearings. You might have other problems that are unrelated to this specific issue, hence they asked you to send the whole wheel in. Most of us in the US just got sent the parts.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

I got sent the parts and replaced them and when doing so, noticed degradation of the fixed ratchet. Sent pics to DT and they suggested it needed replacement too. Since I didn’t have the tool,I sent I the whole wheel.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

RisingStar said:


> Yeah, I didn't see any degradation in the ratchet teeth either. I did see scratches or scoring in the inner spline of the freehub body where the floating ratchet moves up and down.
> I have the 180 EXP with ceramic bearings and didn't notice any tight bearings. You might have other problems that are unrelated to this specific issue, hence they asked you to send the whole wheel in. Most of us in the US just got sent the parts.


My hub is 240 EXP.


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## jCheng (Oct 6, 2020)

RisingStar said:


> What kind of failure are you experiencing? Is it slipping or is there a total loss of engagement? Do you notice any scoring of the surface of the fixed ratchet?
> 
> The failure I experienced was total loss engagement. This was caused by the floating ratchet being stuck in the freehub body and not making contact with the fixed ratchet. Replacing the fixed ratchet wouldn't fix it in this case.


It would get stuck and if i backpedal a bit it would disengage and pedal like normal.

A few pedal strokes later, it would happen again.

I did see some knicks on the ratchet ring on the hub but the freehub looks fine.

The tool to remove it from the bearings are expensive!


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

DT fixed the issue and the wheel is already on the way back. Super fast and great service from them, IMNSHO.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Hopefully it is fixed


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## annoying crack (Jan 15, 2010)

by the way, is this problem with the new ratched system only in the 240 hubs or has it also changed in the 350 hubs as found in the 1700 series of pre-build wheels?
Am in the market for new wheels and since I can't afford the more expensive offerings, I'm looking at the 1700 series of wheels which I have had good experiences with in the past.... hope they did not change those?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

annoying crack said:


> by the way, is this problem with the new ratched system only in the 240 hubs or has it also changed in the 350 hubs as found in the 1700 series of pre-build wheels?
> Am in the market for new wheels and since I can't afford the more expensive offerings, I'm looking at the 1700 series of wheels which I have had good experiences with in the past.... hope they did not change those?


The 350s are not EXP, so, no.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## annoying crack (Jan 15, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> The 350s are not EXP, so, no.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ok, thank you.
That is what I hoped.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

3 weeks of hard riding. Grunting up steep climbs and down chunky trails, on a hard tail/rigid SS. Zero issues. Like my 240’s of old, rolls well, no play, nice sound. Thumbs up from
me how fast these guys took care of the potential issue and got the wheel back to me.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

La Nada said:


> Well my brand new 180 EXP just arrived from r2-bike and it's a "0." Confirmed with DT Swiss that it's from the bad batch. Kind of disappointing these are still being sold at this point.


I do not understand , obviously the seller knew the problem of the series " 0 ", how is it possible to send these 180 EXP hubs ?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

the last biker said:


> I do not understand , obviously the seller knew the problem of the series " 0 ", how is it possible to send these 180 EXP hubs ?


With the actual problems with lack of gear in stock, I am sure bike shops will sell whatever they get&#8230; you are probably right - the seller knew the problem - and he probably thought that maybe this one will not have problems - as probably many of the bad batch. Does not mean I agree with the procedure of course!

I myself had defective hubs from the bad batch (I am patient 0 ) and the last 240EXP I bought also from the bad batch (Dtswiss release was not issued when I purchase it), has now turned 5.000km and still flawless&#8230;


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Just ask r2 when ordering what the numbers are. I will next time before placing order, for certain.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I had 30+ hubs in inventory that were affected according to the S/N.

DT sent me all the ratchets, and I replaced all of them before they ever got laced into wheels.

One would hope that other retailers did the same before shipping them.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Mikesee, that was a great idea.
I doubt most bike stores did the same…
Presently I am concerned if Specialized themselves are doing that with ROVAL wheels being sold presently, as in those kind of wheels you cannot access the original DtSwiss serial number


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

mikesee said:


> I had 30+ hubs in inventory that were affected according to the S/N.
> DT sent me all the ratchets, and I replaced all of them before they ever got laced into wheels.


My assumption that a retailer who upgraded with the revised replacement parts would have communicated the revision to the seller.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

mikesee said:


> I had 30+ hubs in inventory that were affected according to the S/N.
> 
> DT sent me all the ratchets, and I replaced all of them before they ever got laced into wheels.
> 
> One would hope that other retailers did the same before shipping them.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mikesee, congratulations on this action.

I understand that being brand new hubs , it is only necessary to change the floating ratchet, yes?,
in a brand new hub or in a unused/unrolled the fixed ratchet is not necessary to change ?

Thanks.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

The last biker, I know you own a brand new bike, 0km.
It is unnecessary in these cases to touch the fixed ratchet! So the fix is actually extremely easy.
(Mikesee, correct me if I am wrong)

Cleared2Land, not fully agree with you on this… most customers will have no idea about the issue with the EXPs.
Business-wise, it makes no sense to create a doubt in the buyer where there is none! 
If some customer in the future mention this to the seller, he can always surprise him reassuring that a defective hub would never leave the store, so of course they fix it before, blablabla…


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Nande said:


> Cleared2Land, not fully agree with you on this&#8230; most customers will have no idea about the issue with the EXPs.
> Business-wise, it makes no sense to create a doubt in the buyer where there is none!
> If some customer in the future mention this to the seller, he can always surprise him reassuring that a defective hub would never leave the store, so of course they fix it before, blablabla&#8230;


I understand your point, but i dunno.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

I posted in this thread earlier on as I have three sets of the affected hubs. Being busy with moving and work, I never got around to sending the email even. Well, two failed on back to back rides and I'm hesitant to even mount up the third wheel. Just sent the email to the USA email address and will update when I get the response/parts.

That being said, not mad at Dt Swiss. They identified the problem and seem to be taking care of people. It's my fault for sitting on them for so long and not at least sending in the wheels that weren't in rotation.


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

I finally managed to get the freewheel and floating ratchet ring from DT Swiss, along with the little tube of grease and new spring. It took a while because I live in Colombia, so had to get everything sent from a freight forwarder in Miami.

Anyways I installed the replacement parts and went for my first ride today, and am happy to report everything seems to be working fine again. As some others mentioned, the ratchet rings do seem to be louder now; freshly lubed, they sound like my original ratchets did when needing some lube love. I'm not complaining though.

I did not replace the fixed ratchet ring, so here's to hoping I have no more issues... will keep you posted.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Quick update, David replied to my email in about ten minutes.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Nande said:


> Mikesee, that was a great idea.
> I doubt most bike stores did the same&#8230;
> Presently I am concerned if Specialized themselves are doing that with ROVAL wheels being sold presently, as in those kind of wheels you cannot access the original DtSwiss serial number


The Roval wheels have a DT serial number on them if they are DT based hubs&#8230;just got my new parts for control sl's.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

peabody said:


> The Roval wheels have a DT serial number on them if they are DT based hubs&#8230;just got my new parts for control sl's.


I thought all hubs from other brands that had DtSwiss EXP inside did not carry a DtSwiss serial number, but a serial number from the brand itself, as Roval per example.
Peabody - do we find the DtSwiss serial number on a Roval wheel in the same place as if it was a DtSwiss exp hub?


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Nande said:


> I thought all hubs from other brands that had DtSwiss EXP inside did not carry a DtSwiss serial number, but a serial number from the brand itself, as Roval per example.
> Peabody - do we find the DtSwiss serial number on a Roval wheel in the same place as if it was a DtSwiss exp hub?


Mine on the rr wheel was by the disc rotor


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Peabody, sorry to double check: is it a DtSwiss serial number? 
It should look like this: P2079940 318 DTP N 10027719


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## 7four8 (Sep 9, 2007)

I have a pair of new roval wheels. I emailed dt Swiss the serial number and they promptly sent a new ratchet, so they are able to track it.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

7four8 said:


> I have a pair of new roval wheels. I emailed dt Swiss the serial number and they promptly sent a new ratchet, so they are able to track it.


Hi, Just the floating star ratchet ?


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## 7four8 (Sep 9, 2007)

Just floating. They said If it hasn’t been ridden floating should fix it.


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## NCBMXPRO (Apr 20, 2005)

I went to ride my new Roval Control SL for the first time last weekend and it skipped after my first couple cranks. I thought it was just settling or something and went into the trail and up the first small climb, only 20 feet into the trail, I stood up and it skipped really bad and almost threw me off! I’m so glad I found this thread. Thank you all for posting.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

NCBMXPRO said:


> I went to ride my new Roval Control SL for the first time last weekend and it skipped after my first couple cranks. I thought it was just settling or something and went into the trail and up the first small climb, only 20 feet into the trail, I stood up and it skipped really bad and almost threw me off! I'm so glad I found this thread. Thank you all for posting.


Can you confirm us the serial number of your hub? Is it a "0" batch?


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Yeah, one of mine skipped once or twice. Then worked fine. Like an idiot, I kept climbing anyway and on the next ride it failed completely. They are sending the ratchet and a new freehub body on that one. The other ones just got new ratchets.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

I think life will be easier--and cheaper--to build up with the new 350's.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

I'm not too worried that the fix won't work. I'm placing all my faith in their track record though, I admit. But they have earned it. And a ratchet/Freehub swap takes a couple of minutes and a good excuse to deep clean my janky cassette.


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## NCBMXPRO (Apr 20, 2005)

Nande said:


> Can you confirm us the serial number of your hub? Is it a "0" batch?


My bike shop has informed me it was an "0" batch and is sending the wheel to Dt today as they do not have the tools.


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## Emax (Dec 4, 2005)

NCBMXPRO said:


> My bike shop has informed me it was an "0" batch and is sending the wheel to Dt today as they do not have the tools.


They don't have the cassette removal tool? Removing the floating ratchet and freehub does not require any tools.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Nande said:


> Peabody, sorry to double check: is it a DtSwiss serial number?
> It should look like this: P2079940 318 DTP N 10027719


 My rovals had a DT Swiss serial number. They replaced the internals as I've described earlier in this post.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Thank you eonicks!
I was unaware of that; thought that roval wheels had hub serial numbers of their own. Good to know, as any roval customer can clearly see if their wheel set is from the affected batch


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

I was considering trying the 240 exp but maybe it's better to stick with the old 350s (or new 2021 350s)


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Probably fine now. Just check the serial number. Worst case, you swap the ratchet, which takes five minutes tops.


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## snappasig (May 11, 2021)

I received my replacement freehub, ratchet, and spring but the red washer was not included. Apologies if it's already been stated but are we supposed to use the original washer or leave the washer out now?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

You absolutely have to use the red washer. That’s critical to the hub working properly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## snappasig (May 11, 2021)

Le Duke said:


> You absolutely have to use the red washer. That's critical to the hub working properly.


Thanks!


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

Just want to add that after the service my 240 hub became quite loud. Not i-9 annoying loud, but louder than before. I think the spring they put there now is stronger. This is nothing like the old good non-EXP ratchet used to be.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Mine too. Now I don’t need a bell.


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

snappasig said:


> I received my replacement freehub, ratchet, and spring but the red washer was not included. Apologies if it's already been stated but are we supposed to use the original washer or leave the washer out now?


If you're referring to the red spacer that slides onto the axle, yes, you must reuse it. Your hub won't freewheel without it.


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## snappasig (May 11, 2021)

juan_speeder said:


> If you're referring to the red spacer that slides onto the axle, yes, you must reuse it. Your hub won't freewheel without it.


I'm referring to the red flat washer that sits against the bearing in the freehub which the spring then sits/pushes against. I think I know of the red cylindrical piece that you're referring to and I made sure to include that when reassembling (actually I didn't even remove it when I changed the freehub and ratchet).

Without the red washer, the spring sits directly against the bearing in the freehub. Like I said, the whole freehub assembly was sent to me except for that washer.


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## snappasig (May 11, 2021)

#6 is what I'm talking about.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

KVV said:


> Just want to add that after the service my 240 hub became quite loud. Not i-9 annoying loud, but louder than before. I think the spring they put there now is stronger. This is nothing like the old good non-EXP ratchet used to be.


Hi KVV, I believe that is one of the visible/audible differences between defective and good working EXP: the defective ones usually sound quieter; the good ones sound louder.
My first defective EXP sounded quite low. The last one I am using (though also from the defective batch) is working flawless for 5.803km and sounds much louder!


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Anyone know if the 54t upgrade kits are shipping with the new “improved” ratchet and spring?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

MTB Engineer said:


> Anyone know if the 54t upgrade kits are shipping with the new "improved" ratchet and spring?


No way -- DT identified the problem and then held three all-hands meetings to determine conclusively that the most ethical way forward was to ship potentially tainted parts.

Just to stick it to the little guy.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mikesee said:


> No way -- DT identified the problem and then held three all-hands meetings to determine conclusively that the most ethical way forward was to ship potentially tainted parts.
> 
> Just to stick it to the little guy.


Wickedly laced with sarcasm. I like it.


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## gravel_tom (Apr 30, 2021)

I received my WR45 wheels today with the new 240 EXP hubs.










The hub has a "1" in the middle position so I should be good, if I understand the serial numbering correctly.

However, the free hub sound is very dull and the sound is varying a bit. It is basically quiet but sometimes slightly louder, but still much more quiet than I expected from a 24 hub.

Here is a clip with the sound:






Listen especially at 53 seconds in: 




Is this normal for a hub with the improved coating?


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

gravel_tom said:


> I received my WR45 wheels today with the new 240 EXP hubs.
> 
> View attachment 1940934
> 
> ...


Sounds the same as mines


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

gravel_tom said:


> I received my WR45 wheels today with the new 240 EXP hubs.


Please let us know if there is some issue with your wheels, as there are no known problems with serial numbers different from 0, like yours is! You will most probably be fine


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## gravel_tom (Apr 30, 2021)

Will do. Waiting for new rotors to arrive before I can mount them.


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

I had my hub fixed at local DT Swiss maintenance center (had to send whole wheel through LBS) in 11 days.
180EXP from 1200XMC wheelset on YT Izzo, bought about 11 months ago.

This was in Finland.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

edu2 said:


> I had my hub fixed at local DT Swiss maintenance center (had to send whole wheel through LBS) in 11 days.
> 180EXP from 1200XMC wheelset on YT Izzo, bought about 11 months ago.
> 
> This was in Finland.


Please let us know if your fixed hub had any engagement problems after the fixing.


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## gravel_tom (Apr 30, 2021)

gravel_tom said:


> Will do. Waiting for new rotors to arrive before I can mount them.


I now have around 250 km on my wheels with 240 hubs with a number 1 in the serial number. No engagement issues so far, but the free hub sound is somewhat weird to me:

When free wheeling the ratchet sound can be heard for a few seconds but then goes almost silent. But no practical problems at all so far.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Took my 240 EXP to my LBS on Tuesday this week. Let’s see when I get it back from Cycle Service Nordic and what will be different. I’ll do a comparison of the old vs new parts!


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## PRAUDIO (Aug 31, 2020)

gravel_tom said:


> I received my WR45 wheels today with the new 240 EXP hubs.
> 
> View attachment 1940934
> 
> ...


My 240 EXP buzz started to waver proportional to rotation, then failed. Sent it in for a refresh and now ratcheting buzz is consistent and intense.


----------



## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

edu2 said:


> I had my hub fixed at local DT Swiss maintenance center (had to send whole wheel through LBS) in 11 days.
> 180EXP from 1200XMC wheelset on YT Izzo, bought about 11 months ago.
> 
> This was in Finland.


--------------------------------------------------------------

edu2, I understand that, since you bought the bike until the rear hub failed you could ride 10/11 months without problems? , your hub had the number "1" in the middle position ?


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

the last biker said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> edu2, I understand that, since you bought the bike until the rear hub failed you could ride 10/11 months without problems? , your hub had the number "1" in the middle position ?


No, my hub has "0" in the middle of the three digit code.

I rode the bike 6-7 months without issues (when we got snow I rode fatbike) and the problem started and escalated on a one single ride.

Can't say how many miles/km I had on it but I ride 1-3 times a week usually 20-50 km per ride (xc trails, no racing).

Edit: I got the serial number wrong


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

PRAUDIO said:


> My 240 EXP buzz started to waver proportional to rotation, then failed. Sent it in for a refresh and now ratcheting buzz is consistent and intense.


PRAUDIO, is yours a "0" serial number hub? (The defective batch)


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

edu2 said:


> Yes, my hub has "1" in the middle of the three digit code.
> 
> I rode the bike 6-7 months without issues (when we got snow I rode fatbike) and the problem started and escalated on a one single ride.
> 
> Can't say how many miles/km I had on it but I ride 1-3 times a week usually 20-50 km per ride (xc trails, no racing).


These are the bad news nobody wanted to hear&#8230; hubs not belonging to the defective batch 
EDU2, your issue was, as stated throughout this thread, an engagement failure?


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

Nande said:


> These are the bad news nobody wanted to hear&#8230; hubs not belonging to the defective batch
> EDU2, your issue was, as stated throughout this thread, an engagement failure?


Sorry I remembered it wrong. Mine does have 0 in the middle of the three digit set.
And yes it was engagement issue.

I fixed the message above.

Here's the pic of my hub (has worked fine now for 150-200 km)


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Nande said:


> These are the bad news nobody wanted to hear&#8230; hubs not belonging to the defective batch
> EDU2, your issue was, as stated throughout this thread, an engagement failure?


I wish some people were as passionate about tracking/controlling a certain pandemic as you are about tracking of faulty hubs!


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## Chrisisism (Mar 1, 2021)

Have ridden my refurbished 240exp hub for several full weeks in bike parks on my commencal meta am 29. A lot of jumps and on off pedalling in berms etc. Working very good so far. Will report back if something happens with it later on


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

edu2 said:


> No, my hub has "0" in the middle of the three digit code.
> 
> I rode the bike 6-7 months without issues (when we got snow I rode fatbike) and the problem started and escalated on a one single ride.
> 
> ...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then, as long as the hub has the digit "0" in the middle of the three digit code., it will fail ..... it can be in a few days with few miles/kms as in up to 6-7 months with hundreds of miles/kms , but in the end it fails.

My wheelset 180 EXP came with the bike ( brand new ),unfortunately it is "0 " I have not used it, knowing this problem* thanks to this thread* I communicate with DT Swiss and they sent me the floating ratchet and an lube tube, they tell me that with that is enough, I hope....?


----------



## Nande (May 19, 2020)

the last biker said:


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Then, as long as the hub has the digit "0" in the middle of the three digit code., it will fail ..... it can be in a few days with few miles/kms as in up to 6-7 months with hundreds of miles/kms , but in the end it fails.
> 
> My wheelset 180 EXP came with the bike ( brand new ),unfortunately it is "0 " I have not used it, knowing this problem* thanks to this thread* I communicate with DT Swiss and they sent me the floating ratchet and an lube tube, they tell me that with that is enough, I hope....?


Last biker, if the hub has the digit "0" it is likely to fail. Too many of us are proof of that 
There are also some "0" hubs that work; last one I bought has now 6.449km and still works flawless. Of course I cannot tell if it will fail tomorrow or never&#8230; though all this thread points to engagement problems at a much earlier stage.

Presently it makes no sense to get a "0" hub and just use it to see if by any chance it will work. The correct approach is to contact DtSwiss and have it refurbished before usage. At the time I bought this one, the problem with the EXP seemed still to be my problem and not a hub problem. I bought a first defective one that originated this post - at the time the trend was "I surely did something wrong with it ". After some months I bought another one (still in use) and had no idea that it was a batch problem.

Currently I am on the market for a second pair of wheels, and the first thing I will check is the hub serial number!!


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

I have some 180s on the way, will be sure to check the serial #.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

The hub is back! Took exactly 2 weeks and seems I got pretty much all new parts:

Freehub body
Moving and fixed ratchet
Spring (?, not sure, it's identical to the original one)
Maybe bearings


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

MTB Engineer said:


> The hub is back! Tool exactly 2 weeks and seems I got pretty much all new parts:
> 
> Freehub body
> Moving and fixed ratchet
> ...


Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video


----------



## gravel_tom (Apr 30, 2021)

I feel that the freewheeling function on my 240 hubs (with "1" in the serial number) acts a bit weird. Apart from the ratchet sound fading in and out sometimes, the freewheeling seems very inefficient. It pulls the pedals forward in a way that I never experience on other hubs:






Is this normal?


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

gravel_tom said:


> Is this normal?


The ratchet sound fading is normal, at least on my 350's with 18 and 36t.

The drag? Might be the 'new' normal. I've never had a freehub drag the drivetrain forward like that.
Unacceptable imo. Have you done a basic clean/grease of the hub and made sure it's together properly?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^ Internet troubleshooting, but that does sound like a service need.


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## gravel_tom (Apr 30, 2021)

eatdrinkride said:


> Have you done a basic clean/grease of the hub and made sure it's together properly?


No, the wheels are brand new (had them for a couple of weeks) so I have not serviced the hub at all.


----------



## gravel_tom (Apr 30, 2021)

gravel_tom said:


> No, the wheels are brand new (had them for a couple of weeks) so I have not serviced the hub at all.


Dropped the bike off at my LBS today. Will be interesting to see what they find.


----------



## k3n!f (May 15, 2006)

Slightly off topic:

I'm looking at buying a 240 EXP. I currently pack my 240 hub with a lot of thick grease as I like really quiet hubs and it hasn't caused any skipping. Has anyone done this with an EXP? Has it caused any engagement issues?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gravel_tom said:


> I feel that the freewheeling function on my 240 hubs (with "1" in the serial number) acts a bit weird. Apart from the ratchet sound fading in and out sometimes, the freewheeling seems very inefficient. It pulls the pedals forward in a way that I never experience on other hubs:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The free hub sound fading in and out is normal and the pedals being driven forward is also normal. The spring doesn't disengage the ratchets teeth completely for a 350degree rotation. This is due to the design of the spring. The winding doesn't start perfectly flat and with the ratchet up against it it cause the ratchet to wobble slightly. That's is both the source of the sound wobble and also the forward drag. The pedals being driven forward is a result of the tops of the teeth catching each slightly but also the grease between the two parts being dragged along and pulling the two ratchets along. A very light opposite force overcomes this. Not sure how you arrive at it being inefficient since in any free hub there are losses due to viscous drag. If it bothers you use Chris king ring drive grease on the ratchets instead of the DTSwiss grease


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## PRAUDIO (Aug 31, 2020)

Nande said:


> PRAUDIO, is yours a "0" serial number hub? (The defective batch)


Yes, the defective batch. All is good so far with the updated hub.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Second day of the stage race in Finnish Lapland. About 30km into wilderness I meet a man who walks his bike. He explains that the freehub does not engage. I ask what hub he has. Lo and behold it's 240 EXP. Five minutes later he rides again. Thanks to this thread.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^^
You sprinkled pixie dust on him and he gets back on his bike and rides?


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^^
> You sprinkled pixie dust on him and he gets back on his bike and rides?


No. They rebuilt the wheel trail-side with a DT350.

He'll never worry about his hub again.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

We removed the freehub and removed/replaced the ratchet, so it worked again for some time. He had to repeat this process several times before he got out.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

arnea said:


> We removed the freehub and removed/replaced the ratchet, so it worked again for some time. He had to repeat this process several times before he got out.


That is exactly the fix  sometimes it works for a couple of days, sometimes for a few minutes but it usually helps to get back home


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Just fitted my replacement ratchet and spring on my 180’s.
I didn’t have issues but wanted to make sure I didn’t going forward. DT sent the parts out for me to do.

The old hub/ratchet was almost silent which I quite liked. Now it has the new spring and ratchet, plus the removal of the masses of grease on the original, the hub sounds much like my old 240’s. Applied the new DT special grease as per the instructions. 
I imagine this normal noise returning is a mixture of all three things.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Yep. My 180s are just about as loud as the I9s on my other bike.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Strangely enough my “fixed” 240 is almost completely silent. No engagement issues after~300km but just wait until winter arrives…


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Did you apply a lot of grease or just light brush?


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I didn't grease it, Cycle Service Nordic did as here DT is not sending out parts for DIY repairs. I think they put in an average amount. Not as much as was in there from the factory, that's for sure!


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

My 180s got louder after the rebuild/new parts also.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

got my 180s in from R2, hubs have a 212 so should be good i guess. they look hilariously small.


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

This is a bit OT, but seems like you all have a lot of experience with these hubs at this point.

I started experiencing the sleeping ratchet issue a couple weeks ago. I was planning to upgrade to 54t anyway, so I figured I'd kill two birds with one stone and bought the upgrade kit.

I'm working on the swap, however, for the life of me I cannot unthread the fixed ratchet from the hub. The hub is less than 2-months old and I'm worried its seized in.

Anyone familiar with this issue and have a recommendation how to overcome it?

EDIT: I am seeing that some of the instructions are saying to remove the 'axle' and non-drive-side bearings, other instructions skip this step. I have not tried to remove these parts for sake of simplicity... would this make the process easier?


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

FishMan473 said:


> This is a bit OT, but seems like you all have a lot of experience with these hubs at this point.
> 
> I started experiencing the sleeping ratchet issue a couple weeks ago. I was planning to upgrade to 54t anyway, so I figured I'd kill two birds with one stone and bought the upgrade kit.
> 
> ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, maybe you need some tools for remove the fixed ratchet.


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

I’ve got the tool. Putting all the force I dare to put on it and the fixed ratchet won’t budge. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

FishMan473 said:


> I've got the tool. Putting all the force I dare to put on it and the fixed ratchet won't budge.


I upgraded my 180 to the 54T after one month of use. The fixed ratchet was definitely very hard to take out, not as easy as the video from DT Swiss shows. I had to use a 18" breaker bar and all my force to loosen it.


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## siejak12 (Mar 18, 2019)

Did someone try to unscrew the ring without a dedicated tool? No workshop has this tool, I have to do it myself.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Based on how difficult it seems to be even with the proper tool I would highly advise not going at it with some makeshift tool.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

arnea said:


> Second day of the stage race in Finnish Lapland. About 30km into wilderness I meet a man who walks his bike. He explains that the freehub does not engage. I ask what hub he has. Lo and behold it's 240 EXP. Five minutes later he rides again. Thanks to this thread.


I rode with someone this weekend who after hucking off a small log ended up with no engagement. Thankfully another rider was aware of this issue (I only have 10+ year old DT 240s, CK's and other less exotic 11/10/9-speed and SS hubs too).

He popped the wheel off, removed and reinstalled the cassette and it worked again for the remainder of the ride.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

FishMan473 said:


> I've got the tool. Putting all the force I dare to put on it and the fixed ratchet won't budge.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


FishMan, did you solve it? Did you go to your local bike store to have it fixed?
Let us know if you find any issues afterwards.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

In the market for some new hubs,, and the 240 exp or maybe ever the 180 are on top of the list. This thread has me wondering. after a little more searching, I found a couple of videos saying the problem is specific to only a bad batch that got out. Not sure if this info is in this thread or not, but according to a couple of videos a 1 in the middle of the production code are good, any other number and they give 0 as example are not good. Here is one of the videos.






at 330 talks about the batch number


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Dear Dave

Thanks for the input. We are well aware of the statement DtSwiss issued (eventually in part due to this thread). This thread started way before DtSwiss admitted any problems. Their statement was published and discussed here. In the original first post this information was added in order to make it easier for newcomers to this thread to be aware of the current situation.
If you are on the market for a DtSwiss hub, just pay attention to the serial number, as the hubs you buy today could have left DtSwiss factory a long time ago and belong to the defective batch.
There are no known cases of hubs without the “0” on the serial number that have this problem.
There are a couple of cases of “0” hubs that were retrofitted and problem remained.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

Nande said:


> Dear Dave
> 
> Thanks for the input. We are well aware of the statement DtSwiss issued (eventually in part due to this thread). This thread started way before DtSwiss admitted any problems. Their statement was published and discussed here. In the original first post this information was added in order to make it easier for newcomers to this thread to be aware of the current situation.
> If you are on the market for a DtSwiss hub, just pay attention to the serial number, as the hubs you buy today could have left DtSwiss factory a long time ago and belong to the defective batch.
> ...


Thanks Nande I had a feeling I missed it, but I sure do feel better about going with dt swiss hubs now, knowing this. now the questions is 180 or 240 !!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Presently I own one set of wheels with 240 and one set of wheels with 180 ceramic bearings.
I would say the hub choice depends on the big picture: if you are aiming for a *really* low weight rims and tyres (and really more expensive too), then get the 180. If you are aiming for a low weight good set, get the 240. In your daily rides, even if you ride hard (I like to think I ride hard ), you will not notice the difference between both hubs.
I notice the difference between both wheel sets because, besides more stiffness, there is almost 500gr difference between them!!


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

Nande said:


> Presently I own one set of wheels with 240 and one set of wheels with 180 ceramic bearings.
> I would say the hub choice depends on the big picture: if you are aiming for a *really* low weight rims and tyres (and really more expensive too), then get the 180. If you are aiming for a low weight good set, get the 240. In your daily rides, even if you ride hard (I like to think I ride hard ), you will not notice the difference between both hubs.
> I notice the difference between both wheel sets because, besides more stiffness, there is almost 500gr difference between them!!



thanks,, looking for low weight for sure,, but durability is more of a concern, with the 180 my concern is the smaller bearing might not hold up as long ??,, but really I have no idea and have not been able to find anything on it.


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## lewzz10 (Oct 4, 2021)

Anyone had their replacement ratchets fail? Mine started slipping and jamming halfway through racing the EWS at the weekend. Very annoying but thankfully didn’t go completely!

I’d not ridden the wheels before the replacements so I just had the new spring/floating ratchet and the freehub body itself.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

lewzz10 said:


> Anyone had their replacement ratchets fail? Mine started slipping and jamming halfway through racing the EWS at the weekend. Very annoying but thankfully didn’t go completely!
> 
> I’d not ridden the wheels before the replacements so I just had the new spring/floating ratchet and the freehub body itself.


Oh no- that sucks and makes me a bit queasy about the long term "solution". 

Was your serial number one of the affected/identified ones? 

I'm guessing your next step will be to have all four bits replaced including the fixed ratchet. Hope that is a winning strategy.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

lewzz10 said:


> Anyone had their replacement ratchets fail? Mine started slipping and jamming halfway through racing the EWS at the weekend. Very annoying but thankfully didn’t go completely!
> 
> I’d not ridden the wheels before the replacements so I just had the new spring/floating ratchet and the freehub body itself.


Lewzz thanks for sharing the information no one would like to hear … that refurbished hubs continue to fail!

Please keep us updated on this subject!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

This DT issue is turning into a $h!t show. 
Too many ongoing problems.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> This DT *Exp* issue is turning into a $h!t show.
> Too many ongoing problems.


Ftfy


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Haven't had any issues after swapping out the replacement parts sent to me.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Here's what my replacement floating ratchet looks like after a summer of riding. I've not noticed any prolonged jamming but there have been moments of no resistance that resolve themselves. I replaced the floating component this spring, though I had no issues with the original. Just replaced it proactively.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

My ”repaired” 240 EXP is also exhibiting some signs of skipping, mainly audible clangs and bangs. So far no total disengagement after ~500km.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

2000km+ on my 180s with new ratchet. No problems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Have you guys - that had problems after upgrading the hub - informed you local dealer and/or DtSwiss?

Statistically, it is a worrying % of users that had issues after “correcting the issues”  *problem is definitely not solved for good…*

I am very curious as, after being the patient 0 with the 240 EXP, the last one I bought (still from defective batch), rode for 6.681km flawlessly. I have them now at my local bike shop for bearing replacement - they needed it. Still did not touch the ratchets. Will they keep performing flawless?! I have no intention of exchanging the ratchets because:
1 - still no problem appeared
2 - some users that exchanged the ratchets still have problems; could a ratchet exchange bring a problem that does not exist now 

Damned.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

*BAD NEWS!*

My recently bought Roval Carbon SL, with DtSwiss 180 EXP (from the “1” batch) has failed engagement today for several times! Exactly the same issue: had to remove the wheel, take out the cassete and pull out the spring. 
Has 1.046km.

So, the Dtswiss oficial statement “Hubs (wheels as well as components) which have a “1” in the middle of the production code (e.g.: P2079940 318 DTP N 10027719) already have internals with an increased surface quality” is *Bullshit!* Mine is a “1” and failed engagement exactly as the “0” batch did.

My story:
240 EXP (from the “0” defective batch) failed engagement first time after 500km and failed continuously at aproximately 1.000km.
240 EXP (also from the “0” defective batch) has 6.681km with no issues. These wheels will be back on my bike on Monday as the new ones are going to warranty.
180 EXP (from the “1” batch) failed for the first time at 1.046km, and failed several times during this ride.

Conclusion: DtSwiss engagement problems continue both with “repaired “0” batches and with theoretically corrected batches. Guys, don’t buy DtSwiss for now…  I spent a lot of money to have a lot of problems.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

Nande said:


> *BAD NEWS!*
> 
> My recently bought Roval Carbon SL, with DtSwiss 180 EXP (from the “1” batch) has failed engagement today for several times! Exactly the same issue: had to remove the wheel, take out the cassete and pull out the spring.
> Has 1.046km.
> ...


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Nande, We are already many with that problem, and the replacement parts sooner or later will fail, I will ask DT Swiss to change ( under warranty ) the rear hub 180 EXP , I want that DT Swiss send to me a 240 hub with normal ratchet and I will send them the 180 EXP.

I don't want to hear about the "new EXP system" again.🤬🤬

Best Regards.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Go buy new wheels and hubs and ditch this DT problem. 

It isn't gonna get any better, any time soon. It's time to realize this situation is not going to improve anytime in the near future.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

Hi , Anyone know if you can convert an 180 or 240 EXP hub to Ratchet System 36 SL , the previous system which was excellent I mean the internal parts, ratchets, springs, washers, etc.?

Thanks in advance.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

do they still make the old system?? like the 240s


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Dave Mac said:


> do they still make the old system?? like the 240s


For the 240s no, for the 350s yes.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I will repeat what I already mentioned before: The problem is most likely not related to the surface finish of the moving ratchet but rather the fit between the ratchet and the freehub body is too loose and the spring too weak. This allows the ratchet ring to tilt and bind with the freehub body splines and the spring is too weak to support the ratchet ring enough.

This is based on my experience with chamfering the moving ratchet, which completely eliminates the disengagement problem. The leading and trailing edges of the moving ratchet need veeeery small chamfers to prevent binding.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

MTB Engineer said:


> I will repeat what I already mentioned before: The problem is most likely not related to the surface finish of the moving ratchet but rather the fit between the ratchet and the freehub body is too loose and the spring too weak. This allows the ratchet ring to tilt and bind with the freehub body splines and the spring is too weak to support the ratchet ring enough.
> 
> This is based on my experience with chamfering the moving ratchet, which completely eliminates the disengagement problem. The leading and trailing edges of the moving ratchet need veeeery small chamfers to prevent binding.


Totally agree with the part that the problem is not related to the surface finishing!
Cannot argue about the chamfering as I have no experience with it; your explanation makes a lot of sense though…


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I've been hoping I would be able to avoid posting on this thread...

The DT Swiss 180 Ratchet EXP freehub on my Roval Control SL rear wheel has a serial number in the affected range (the middle three digits of the hub serial number being 406). I was aware of that but it felt good from new, very loud with no change in note and solid engagement so I rode it as it was. Anyway this known bad batch freehub lasted 238 hours / 3610 miles before failing with a jammed ratchet in the freehub. 










With my freehub what I realise now is that it was making frequent loud pops and bangs when gear changing under load which were a sign it was on the way out. The graph above shows the final moments of my ride on Wednesday, immediately before the freehub jammed. The green line is cadence showing my pedalling, the yellow line is power, the blue line is speed and the purple line gear position showing which gear I was in. Each step up or down in the purple line on the graph is a rear SRAM AXS rear derailleur gear shift onto a different sprocket. 

The highlighted dip in the graph is where I stopped pedalling and freewheeled for a few seconds. The freehub disengaged and re-engaged without incident. My incorrect impression from this thread had always been that the freehub jam would show when freewheeling as the ratchet wouldn't re-engage after stopping pedalling.

At the point my freehub jammed it was under full load. I was just starting a hill and was pedalling at 89rpm cadence, 232 watts power at a speed of 11.7mph on a 4% uphill gradient. As the hill was continuing to steepen I was shifting down to a larger rear sprocket under load, without stopping pedalling or easing off, going from the 34x21 to the 34x24 when there was a sudden loud bang and the bike completely lost drive, the freehub spinning freely in both directions. Fortunately I was able to stop safely without crashing but it could just have easily jammed at some really bad moments earlier in the ride.










The picture above shows the splines inside the freehub body. What were smooth splines when new have developed a rough finish with a distinct step in about halfway down their length. Run a fingernail along the spines and it's a clear step.










This is a zoom which shows the splines a little better. The silver star ratchet looks fine with nothing obviously wrong.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Well I may have to rethink sending the 180s to Berd, would be a royal pia to have the hub replaced if it fails.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

dundundata said:


> Well I may have to rethink sending the 180s to Berd, would be a royal pia to have the hub replaced if it fails.


It looks like I'm going to have to send the whole wheel back to DT Swiss now under warranty. 

It's worth noting that I've got two rear wheels with DT Swiss 180 Ratchet EXP freehubs. 

The Roval Control SL rear wheel pictured above with a 0 in the serial (bad batch) did 238 hours / 3,610 miles before failing.
I've also got a DT Swiss XRC1200 rear wheel from 2019 with a 9 in the serial (not known to be a bad batch) and that has done 707.5 hours / 10,463 miles without any problems as yet.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

Cleared2land said:


> Go buy new wheels and hubs and ditch this DT problem.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Ditch this DT problem ? something difficult to do when you have spent 2900 usd.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Given DTs resources do you really think they have not thought of and explored everything related to that? That some armchair quarterbacks on a forum are suddenly going to have some epiphany and solve it?



MTB Engineer said:


> I will repeat what I already mentioned before: The problem is most likely not related to the surface finish of the moving ratchet but rather the fit between the ratchet and the freehub body is too loose and the spring too weak. This allows the ratchet ring to tilt and bind with the freehub body splines and the spring is too weak to support the ratchet ring enough.
> 
> This is based on my experience with chamfering the moving ratchet, which completely eliminates the disengagement problem. The leading and trailing edges of the moving ratchet need veeeery small chamfers to prevent binding.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

The parts that need replacement if necessary do not require unlacing the hub.




dundundata said:


> Well I may have to rethink sending the 180s to Berd, would be a royal pia to have the hub replaced if it fails.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

At this point the issue comes down to this imo. If you already have EXP hubs then you're going to have to deal with the situation and forever wonder if they're going to fail you miles from home. Even if they are "fixed". There is obviously a serious design flaw that hopefully DT can remedy, but clearly at this time it's just hopes and wishes. Ultimately the fix may require design spec/tolerance changes to future exp hubs that cannot be incorporated into the older ones. In that case they'll simply have to buy back what you have and provide something different. Not sure that will ever happen... Pure speculation on my part.

If you are like me and about to buy a new wheelset steer far and clear from exp at this time. If you're bent on DT hubs then go with the 350s. The extra few grams at the center of the wheel is almost meaningless compared to rotational weight. At least the 350s are tried and true... and the design is unchanged from what has worked for very long time.

I'm buying a new set of Roval Terra CL for my gravel bike. They come with dt350s and if they came with a new EXP hubs there is no way in heck I would even consider them as a viable option.



Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

EdSawyer said:


> Given DTs resources do you really think they have not thought of and explored everything related to that? That some armchair quarterbacks on a forum are suddenly going to have some epiphany and solve it?


 Of course I have, but my finding are based purely on my personal experience and background on designing industrial gear couplings, so I do know a thing or ten about gearing interfaces.

The picture posted on this thread of a worn and stepped spline in a used freehub will back my theory. DT seem to approach this through potentially trying to reduce wear at the gear mesh through better surface quality, but flank wear is not the only issue here as even brand new ratchets or ones with very little use are exhibiting the disengagement problem. The problem must thus be the fit itself. I don’t know the exact profile of the freehub splines, but it looks to be flank centered. However, the moving ratchet is so much smaller than the freehub splines that as the freehub wears, it’s clearly evident that the moving ratchet is only engaging the tooth flank on the freehub at maybe 3/4 of total tooth height. A clearance is obviously needed between the parts, but this is excessive and allows the ratchet ring to tilt inside the freehub causing it to bind and stick. A stronger spring could solve this but it’s somewhat of a bandaid solution. Chamfering the ratchet helps as the leading and trailing edges of the ratchet no longer can bind with the freehub splines, but the ultimate solution would be to rethink the fit between the parts and crown the ratchet gearing so that small misalignment due to factors like the axle potentially bending can be compensated for.

I’m perplexed that DT with likely thousands of testing hours on the ratchet EXP have not come across this glaring and potentially dangerous issue before releasing the product to market!


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## xcandrew (Dec 30, 2007)

MTB Engineer said:


> I’m perplexed that DT with likely thousands of testing hours on the ratchet EXP have not come across this glaring and potentially dangerous issue before releasing the product to market!


I've been following this for the engineering lols (have a degree in materials engineering). DT's old engineers knew that two springs and two floating ratchets were the key to reliability in the face ratchet design. That's why they added a spring to the original Hugi design. It should be easy to picture how two floating ratchets with springs on either side will have a more secure alignment with one another than a one sided fixed/one sided floating design considering the loads on the axle and freehub it has to deal with.

DT's own statement basically acknowledges that their traditional system is way more robust (=better reliability) without saying that directly. The smoother surface on the ratchet is a band-aid fix that will (if you own an EXP hub or are DT Swiss) hopefully be good enough:

"variations in the surface finish of the ratchets that are in a completely normal range for the traditional and established systems are potentially leading to premature abrasion of wear parts in the new Ratchet EXP system."

Check out the first comment in the cyclingtips article. JmD writes:

"Funny enough one of DT‘s most experienced engineers explained to me a few years ago that it is key that there are springs on both sides and it would be a mistake to have one star ratchet fixed to the hub shell. With two springs, all teeth can engage perfectly no matter if the axle bends under load. Seems he was right."

DT Swiss acknowledges Ratchet EXP hub problems in new service bulletin - CyclingTips

What this tells me is that, like many/most companies, the ones running the show at DT Swiss aren't the ones who are the most competent. I can imagine the dilemma they are having now marketing EXP. The patent is expired on the two spring face ratchet system, so they can't make a lot money selling that to all the wheel companies.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Update from my Roval wheels with DtSwiss 180 EXP serial number “1” that are from the batch that does not fail engagment, except when it fails engagment :
One week has passed since they failed exactly as all the others in this thread; still waiting for the local dealer to decide what to do 
If you’re located in Portugal or Spain, don’t expect a reaction leveled with the wheels cost 

Will keep the update to see how this soap opera finishes.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

lots of 240s still on the market, but the way that dt swiss is handling this issue with the exp has me wondering if I even want to do buisness with them.

might have to try carbon ti, just can not find a lot of info on them


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Extralite has some new hubs out that are now the lightest available. (Lighter than carbon ti and dt180)


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Dave Mac said:


> lots of 240s still on the market, but the way that dt swiss is handling this issue with the exp has me wondering if I even want to do buisness with them./QUOTE]
> 
> Of course you shouldn't. At least with exp (I personally wouldn't hesitate to buy a non-exp 240, in fact if that's what you want I would jump on it before they're gone.)
> 
> ...


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## bokiscout (Jun 25, 2019)

EdSawyer said:


> Extralite has some new hubs out that are now the lightest available. (Lighter than carbon ti and dt180)


My local bike shop told me that Extra lite are not the most durable for harsh riding. Maybe for XC only. While Carbon Ti is expected to be more durable.

I was looking for DT 240 but bought Carbon Ti hubs instead.


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## vloch (Sep 4, 2021)

Well, my new (just took delivery last week) YT Izzo with XMC 1501s falls into the dreaded “0” serial number group. DT Swiss is asking me to send the wheel to them for the rebuild. If you guys have tips to package the wheel for shipment, I’d appreciate any feedback.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

bokiscout said:


> My local bike shop told me that Extra lite are not the most durable for harsh riding. Maybe for XC only. While Carbon Ti is expected to be more durable.
> 
> I was looking for DT 240 but bought Carbon Ti hubs instead.


wear did you buy them at?? 

thanks


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

I have a pair of Roval Controls SLs w/ EXP hubs. I noticed that sometimes when the hub is freewheeling it is really quiet. So quiet that I can barely hear the ratchet, if at all. Does this seem like it could be an impending failure?


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

My ”repaired” hub is also almost silent, but others are reporting theirs much louder after the repair.


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## vloch (Sep 4, 2021)

Did you send your wheel in for the repair?


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## vloch (Sep 4, 2021)

G-Choro said:


> I have a pair of Roval Controls SLs w/ EXP hubs. I noticed that sometimes when the hub is freewheeling it is really quiet. So quiet that I can barely hear the ratchet, if at all. Does this seem like it could be an impending failure?


My advice would be to check the serial number (in your case send the Roval # to DT) and see what that tells you. I know when I first received my bike I was really liking how extremely quite the freewheel is. Now I read that most who have hubs that work or have been rebuilt are very loud. So, I checked my hubs and there was all the info I needed to contact DT Swiss and get the fix in progress.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

vloch said:


> My advice would be to check the serial number (in your case send the Roval # to DT) and see what that tells you. I know when I first received my bike I was really liking how extremely quite the freewheel is. Now I read that most who have hubs that work or have been rebuilt are very loud. So, I checked my hubs and there was all the info I needed to contact DT Swiss and get the fix in progress.


I definitely have an affected hub. It's a "204" series serial number. I'll contact DT. Thanks!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

EdSawyer said:


> Extralite has some new hubs out that are now the lightest available. (Lighter than carbon ti and dt180)





bokiscout said:


> My local bike shop told me that Extra lite are not the most durable for harsh riding.


Maybe that's why they're called 'Extra Lite"

Think about it


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

vloch said:


> Did you send your wheel in for the repair?


Yes, mine was sent to Cycle Service Nordic for repair. Took 2 weeks.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

G-Choro said:


> I have a pair of Roval Controls SLs w/ EXP hubs. I noticed that sometimes when the hub is freewheeling it is really quiet. So quiet that I can barely hear the ratchet, if at all. Does this seem like it could be an impending failure?


G-Choro, I can only share my experience:
First 240EXP I bought (that originated this thread) were extremely quiet as you mention. They failed.
Last 240EXP I bought (also from “0”) are quite louder and never failed (now with7.063km).
My Roval Control SL with 180EXP (from “1” batch) were also extremely quiet. They failed.

I cannot of course say that the sound of the hub is the reason for it to fail! From my experience though… yours may fail…


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

Nande said:


> G-Choro, I can only share my experience:
> First 240EXP I bought (that originated this thread) were extremely quiet as you mention. They failed.
> Last 240EXP I bought (also from “0”) are quite louder and never failed (now with7.063km).
> My Roval Control SL with 180EXP (from “1” batch) were also extremely quiet. They failed.
> ...


Thank you for sharing your experience. I think it may be best to have them serviced. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Rode my repaired 240 EXP in below 0 conditions last weekend and I’m happy to report no disengaging issues! A few pops and veeerryyy slight skips but nothing major.


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

Nande said:


> FishMan, did you solve it? Did you go to your local bike store to have it fixed?
> Let us know if you find any issues afterwards.


I'm still in limbo with this a bit. My shop was able to break the old fixed ratchet free with which he described as an immense amount of force requiring two guys to get it done. But the bearing is imbedded in the fixed ratchet, and he wasn't able to extract it. Shop put it back together and ordered new bearings. I have been riding on it for a month with the original ratchet system. I've only had it disengage in the past couple-hundred miles so its good-enough for the moment. When our riding season ends in a few weeks I'll bring it back to the shop to finish the process of swapping out the parts.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

FishMan473 said:


> I'm still in limbo with this a bit. My shop was able to break the old fixed ratchet free with which he described as an immense amount of force requiring two guys to get it done. But the bearing is imbedded in the fixed ratchet, and he wasn't able to extract it. Shop put it back together and ordered new bearings. I have been riding on it for a month with the original ratchet system. I've only had it disengage in the past couple-hundred miles so its good-enough for the moment. When our riding season ends in a few weeks I'll bring it back to the shop to finish the process of swapping out the parts.


You need a new tool to remove the bearings of the new EXP system. Tools bike shops have for the old model does not work with EXP. Here in Portugal nobody has the tool yet, so no way to replace the hub’s fixed bearing 
Usually the engagement failure gets exponentially worse, so expect more problems each time you ride…


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Just send it back to DT Swiss and let them deal with it.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

EdSawyer said:


> Just send it back to DT Swiss and let them deal with it.


This works. I just sent two rear wheels, neither of them DT pre-builts (one roval, one custom), back to DT on their dime. They will send you an RMA and shipping labels. Just fill out the form on DT's website, here: Ratchet EXP maintenance notice | DT Swiss. A DT rep got back to me the next day. I'm quite pleased with their customer service.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

I had the same experience, they were great about taking back a custom wheel and fixing the hub. They paid shipping both ways. They’ve definitely stepped up and done a great job handling the issue.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Update on my Roval Carbon SL, 180EXP serial number “1”:
Failed engagement on October 8th.
Contacted local bike shop where I bought them; they contacted Specialized; Specialized contacted DtSwiss; DtSwiss asked for the wheel back.
After nearly 4 weeks, got my wheel back today. Tomorrow will do my first ride.

DTSWISS just changed some parts as the report:









I have to say I was expecting a completely new wheel as it had less than 2 months…

Will update you after testing this new hub with the serial number that hasn’t got the engagement issue anymore…. except when it has engagement issues…


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

First ride with my Roval Control SL that Specialized decided to send directly to DtSwiss’s main europe center for repair:

5h50min - woke up enthusiastic about this ride
6h10min - got down to the street to start the ride
6h10min30sec - *engagement failure*
6h20min - back home
6h30 - back in bed

DtSwiss is still being totally incompetent about this issue!
Specialized is being totally incompetent about trusting DtSwiss with this repair instead of sending me a new wheel.
My local bike store is about to loose a customer.

Unfortunately… this is not over yet.
Do not buy DtSwiss EXP, people!!


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## polentozer (Dec 22, 2020)

I went for the tried and tested 350s because of this thread. Was looking into getting a set of custom build wheels with 240s... Nope.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Nande said:


> First ride with my Roval Control SL that Specialized decided to send directly to DtSwiss’s main europe center for repair:
> 
> 5h50min - woke up enthusiastic about this ride
> 6h10min - got down to the street to start the ride
> ...


Wow! All I can say is Wow!


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## biker2591 (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm a huge DT fan but this is pretty crazy. I have a set of non boost 240 hubs that I have had 6 years of solid performance and zero issues . Thanks to Nande and others on this thread, I didn't get the 240 EXP for my new bike.

Ended up with the 2022 350s and they appear to be a good alternative since they still use the old star ratchet system.

I hope everyone can get their EXP hub issues sorted soon.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Nande said:


> First ride with my Roval Control SL that Specialized decided to send directly to DtSwiss’s main europe center for repair:
> 
> 5h50min - woke up enthusiastic about this ride
> 6h10min - got down to the street to start the ride
> ...




Was the ratchet completely jammed inside on the splines of the freehub as soon as you set off? Your 30 seconds of pedalling would probably be the most it had undergone at that point.

With the quality control for a warranty repaired Ratchet EXP freehub it's probably not going to be put under any pedalling load to test during the repair process as that would mean using the wheel (or at least fitting a cassette before putting it on a test rig). The new parts will most likely be fitted by DT Swiss, the wheel will be spun by hand and if the hub ratchet is engaging at that point it's going to be sent back to the customer as good to use.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

*----This post is about the Ratchet EXP freehub noise coming and going when freewheeling. NOT the moving star ratchet jamming on the freehub splines---*

My entire Roval Control SL rear wheel was sent off to Madison UK (also the UK service centre for DT Swiss) a few weeks ago. The turn around was very quick and I had the wheel back within a week. 

In terms of what was replaced it has a brand new microspline freehub, brand new moving star ratchet, what looks like a brand new fixed ratchet and probably a new spring. The red anodised centre sleeve and red anodised spring spacer look to be the originals that came with the hub and not replaced. It was assembled by the service centre using red DT Swiss grease.

What was really noticeable about the repaired Ratchet EXP hub was that as soon as I put the rear wheel back in the bike frame to check it the freehub noise was coming and going. It was varying between a light click when the wheel freewheeled and sometimes completely silent. The hub was re-engaging each time when pedalling but the lack of noise was concerning. I did one 3 hour outdoors ride on it and it was happening then too. The hub was engaging properly but it was going silent frequently when freewheeling. I'd never had that happen with the other Ratchet EXP freehubs I've used so something wasn't right.

After that ride I took it apart to see what was happening and why the freehub noise was coming and going. When I pulled the freehub off the moving star ratchet was left behind stuck to the red anodised centre sleeve that sits on the axle. This is pictured below exactly as I removed it from the axle after 3 hours riding with the red DT Swiss grease in place.













The red grease would have been applied as a light brush onto the 36 teeth of the moving and fixed star ratchets but when riding the two star ratchets press together very tightly and the excess red grease has been pushed into the middle of the hub, forming a sticky blob. That blob of red grease looks to have been causing the star ratchet to stick to the red anodised centre sleeve and making the noise of the hub come and go when freewheeling.

I cleaned it all off and put the hub back together with Buzzy's Slick Honey grease, which is what I normally use on my DT Swiss freehubs instead of the red DT Swiss grease. It's a very thin grease.

I then caught a bad cold (the old fashioned kind not Covid as the lateral flow test came back negative) so I only managed that one ride on it before having to take some time off riding outdoors to get better. 

After getting over the cold I've done a few rides on the wheel since redoing the grease and the freehub noise has been consistent whilst riding and it seems to be working ok.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

WR304 said:


> What was really noticeable about the repaired Ratchet EXP hub was that as soon as I put the rear wheel back in the bike frame to check it the freehub noise was coming and going. It was varying between a light click when the wheel freewheeled and sometimes completely silent. The hub was re-engaging each time when pedalling but the lack of noise was concerning. I did one 3 hour outdoors ride on it and it was happening then too. The hub was engaging properly but it was going silent frequently when freewheeling. I'd never had that happen with the other Ratchet EXP freehubs I've used so something wasn't right.


I have this exact problem on the same set of wheels. My rear is currently at the DT service center in the U.S. I hope it comes back working properly.

You have to wonder, did they do much durability testing when they engineered these things? I'm not that pleased with how picky the hubs are with "surface finish" and now, apparently, very precise amounts of grease in just the right spots.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Dear @WR304 probably the 30 seconds is overrated  it was probably 10 seconds… maybe 3 turns of the pedals, a few seconds freewheel and… Yes, the ratched was jammed inside as it has always been the case with the EXP.

From my knowledge of mechanics, it is quite clear that for the ratchet to get stuck inside the cylindrical hub body, there has to be a gap between both parts that is bigger than the it should. Is is NOT a spring problem because as soon as you touch the ratchet to set it free, the spring pushes it immediately up.
Why this gap appears I do not know. But is is also clear that the fixing they do - replacing the ratchets and eventually the spring does NOT solve the problem because the cylindrical body where the ratchet moves is the same and has that gap 

Now waiting for the second time what Specialzed will do with my wheel…


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

damn, was all ready to send my hubs to Berd but may just sell them

seems they should be able to test the hub in house somehow before sending them back.

unfortunately looks like a temporary bandaid "fix"


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

The band-aid is broken


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Nande said:


> Dear @WR304 probably the 30 seconds is overrated  it was probably 10 seconds… maybe 3 turns of the pedals, a few seconds freewheel and… Yes, the ratched was jammed inside as it has always been the case with the EXP.
> 
> From my knowledge of mechanics, it is quite clear that for the ratchet to get stuck inside the cylindrical hub body, there has to be a gap between both parts that is bigger than the it should. Is is NOT a spring problem because as soon as you touch the ratchet to set it free, the spring pushes it immediately up.
> Why this gap appears I do not know. But is is also clear that the fixing they do - replacing the ratchets and eventually the spring does NOT solve the problem because the cylindrical body where the ratchet moves is the same and has that gap
> ...


It's a difficult one.

If you imagine that a DT Swiss service centre working on these hubs all day every day is going to have a big box of new star ratchets, a big box of new freehubs, a big box of fresh springs ect and for each wheel they will be randomly pulling out one new star ratchet, one new freehub, one new spring etc from their stock and putting them together. In theory every new component should be fully compatible and interchangeable with one another with matching tolerances so that shouldn't be a problem. 

Then your wheel with new parts in lunches itself after 10 seconds.

If you've still got the Roval Control SL wheel to hand maybe taking some measurements with a digital caliper off the problem jamming star ratchet and freehub body and comparing them to the measurements of the good star ratchets and freehub body in one of your working wheels might show up something?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

That could be an interesting exercise! Nevertheless, my wheel is again at the local bike shop since Friday so that Specialized, that has been contacted by them immediately, may decide what do to.

I have to admit that I am quite fed up with this issue and that I have no will to take measurements or any other action at this moment. I just wish they send me a brand new wheel so that I have a high probability of no issues in the future 
Tomorrow it will be 1 month since my DtSwiss 180EXP serial number “1” failed.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

I have this issue as well with my xmc 1200 wheelset. I have about 1k km on it, so not a lot. It started a few days ago, and now it constantly disengages.
I contacted dt via online form and Cycle Service Nordic (distributor) came back to me and said everything inside needed to be changed. 2 days later I had the parts, now I am waiting for the tools. Sadly they didn't provide the bearing that sits inside the ratchet with the thread, so I will have to reuse that one after I as gently as I can hammer it out.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

jupitersending said:


> I have this issue as well with my xmc 1200 wheelset. I have about 1k km on it, so not a lot. It started a few days ago, and now it constantly disengages.
> I contacted dt via online form and Cycle Service Nordic (distributor) came back to me and said everything inside needed to be changed. I told them I wanted to do it myself and also would like a 54t upgrade which they provided free of charge. 2 days later I had the parts, now I am waiting for the tools. Sadly they didn't provide the bearing that sits inside the ratchet with the thread, so I will have to reuse that one after I as gently as I can hammer it out.


Let us know if that solution worked.
In fact I believe they did not send you the tool to remove the bearing inside… because there are no tools availble!!
Most bike shops (and private owners that order it) are still wating for the tool that still has no deliver date… which would be not even an issue as the EXP is quite new so no many people would need a bearing replacement… but a big problem as so many of us are prone to replace ALL the parts inside.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Nande said:


> Let us know if that solution worked.
> In fact I believe they did not send you the tool to remove the bearing inside… because there are no tools availble!!
> Most bike shops (and private owners that order it) are still wating for the tool that still has no deliver date… which would be not even an issue as the EXP is quite new so no many people would need a bearing replacement… but a big problem as so many of us are prone to replace ALL the parts inside.


I ordered this, I guess I got the last one because it's not in stock any more:








DT Swiss Tool Set for EXP Rear Hubs


Tool Set for DT Swiss EXP Rear Hubs - Do-it-yourself servicing This tool set from DT Swiss allows you to disassemble and reassemble your 180 or 240 EXP rear hub for servicing. The set consists of a tool for installing and removing the ratchet, a tool




www.bike-components.de




It's on it's way in the mail, I have T&T for it.

If none of this fits the bearing inside the ratchet, I'm sure I can find a socket, turn it around and use it without bigger problems.

If you want to order a similar set, I think these guys have it in stock:








DT SWISS Tool Set for Ratchet 180/240 EXP Hubs, 109,50 €


DT SWISS tool set for 180/240 EXP hubs If your DT Swiss EXP hubs have to be serviced, you can buy all the tools you need for professional maintenance here T




r2-bike.com





If it still skips after the fix, I will have a useless set of wheels and expensive tools I will never use because the wheels are garbage. Crossing fingers.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

jupitersending said:


> Sadly they didn't provide the bearing that sits inside the ratchet with the thread, so I will have to reuse that one after I as gently as I can hammer it out.


Maybe I'm missing something, but why are you replacing the bearings?


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Cleared2land said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but why are you replacing the bearings?


I'm not, since they didn't include a new bearing. 
But it's a lot easier to plop in a new bearing in the new ratchet than tapping it out from the old where it's seated now with a makeshift tool.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Update:
My wheel went back to DtSwiss central office in Europe (again…)
Curiosity: before sending it back my mechanic took some photos of the ratchets as they were clearly worn!
If it is absurd that the ratchets were so worn after roughly 1 month usage, it is impossible that they were worn in 10 meters! Meaning that the ratchets were NOT EXCHANGED when the wheel was sent to Dtswiss the first time  though it is written in their report “replacement of all damaged/worn parts” 
Amazing incompetence.
Now that the wheel is going there for a second time, hopefully they spend 5 minutes looking at it and eliminate the engagement failure…


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Nande said:


> Update:
> My wheel went back to DtSwiss central office in Europe (again…)
> Curiosity: before sending it back my mechanic took some photos of the ratchets as they were clearly worn!
> If it is absurd that the ratchets were so worn after roughly 1 month usage, it is impossible that they were worn in 10 meters! Meaning that the ratchets were NOT EXCHANGED when the wheel was sent to Dtswiss the first time  though it is written in their report “replacement of all damaged/worn parts”
> ...


Looking at the bright side though, it could mean if you get them correctly switched it could solve the problem completely. That's better than another fail in my book. But unacceptable they didn't do it correct first time!!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

This is how my ratchet looked!
As stated by DtSwiss, all damaged/worn parts were replaced… right 
What is more astonishing is, considering that DtSwiss lied and this ratchet is the original one, it has 1 month usage!!! And it is extremely worn


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Nande said:


> This is how my ratchet looked!
> As stated by DtSwiss, all damaged/worn parts were replaced… right
> What is more astonishing is, considering that DtSwiss lied and this ratchet is the original one, it has 1 month usage!!! And it is extremely worn
> 
> ...


Is it a trick of the light or are the metal splines of that freehub body missing their anodising and worn down to bare metal too? A brand new unworn DT Swiss Ratchet EXP freehub body should be fully black anodised internally on the splines that the ratchet slides along.

It looks to be in a bad state.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Here's a picture showing the splines of a brand new unused DT Swiss Ratchet EXP freehub body. This is one I've got spare that has never been used.










On a new freehub the splines are smooth along their full length and the entirety of the freehub splines are black anodised.

In Nande's picture of the "repaired" freehub above there are three things that look wrong to me:

The first thing is that the freehub splines are badly worn on the engagement drive side of each freehub spline with all the anodising missing. There's a lot of silver bare metal showing on the freehub body where the star ratchet has been rubbing. If it was new parts that shouldn't be the case as it would be all black anodised still.

The second thing is that the 36 teeth of the moving star ratchet are worn and chipped where it has been slipping and not engaging with the fixed star ratchet.

The third thing is that the grease colour (I'd expect red DT Swiss grease) and its application doesn't match the instructions. There should be a light layer of grease brushed on the 36 teeth of the star ratchet, along with the moving splines where it contacts the freehub body, but that looks very dry inside (and very high friction) to me!

For an example of what the grease application should look like in a freshly serviced Ratchet EXP hub this is MTB Engineer's picture from Post #570 in this thread showing the grease.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Wow. Mine looks nothing like that, after 3,000km on them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

WR304 said:


> In Nande's picture of the "repaired" freehub above there are three things that look wrong to me:


You are totally correct on the first 2 things!
Regarding the grease, I believe my mechanic cleaned it up to take sharper pictures of the worn parts, so I would count that part out.

Nevertheless, my hub is in EXTREMELY bad shape! Of course it was not exchange as DtSwiss wrote in their report: the worst hub you could ever build could not be damaged like this one riding 10 meters! It was eventually 3 pedal turns…
Considering it to be the original one, it is also unbelievable: it has exactly 1.046km (I use Probikegarage app to keep track of everything). How can a premium hub be like this after 1.046km?! Even after 10.000km it should never be worn like this!!!
Something is very wrong with the EXPs… 

To top it all, DtSwiss answer to my local bike store when they reported that my hub failed engagement was: the Hub has a “1” serial number so it is not affected by the engagement failure!  Should I apologize to DtSwiss??
They only shut up and ask for the wheel back again when my mechanic sent the pictures.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

WR304 said:


> There's a lot of silver bare metal showing on the freehub body where the star ratchet has been rubbing


That is exactly my explanation for the EXP engagement failures: when the movement of the ratchet on the freehub body damages the metal body, it creates a gap big enough for the ratchet to get stuck…


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

mine after 1k km looks nothing like that. I can't see any difference between the unused and used body. They are right beside each other on the table in front of me. That's why I am very puzzled why I even get this problem, all the parts look completely identical to me, new and old.


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## Vitec90 (Nov 12, 2021)

I can't understand after reading this thread, can I buy now dt swiss wheels 1200 xrc on 180 hubs or maybe btlos on 240 exp hubs? New version of hubs are OK? Has dt swiss really solved the issue or the problems happen even after service and in different series of hubs?


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Vitec90 said:


> I can't understand after reading this thread, can I buy now dt swiss wheels 1200 xrc on 180 hubs or maybe btlos on 240 exp hubs? New version of hubs are OK? Has dt swiss really solved the issue or the problems happen even after service and in different series of hubs?


We don't really know tbh. Time will tell. I switched mine with the parts I got from DT swiss myself today, and recorded the entire process. 
If there is any interest, I can post it and show how I got the ratchet out and how I managed to find a good way to punch out the bearing inside the ratchet.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Vitec90 said:


> I can't understand after reading this thread, can I buy now dt swiss wheels 1200 xrc on 180 hubs or maybe btlos on 240 exp hubs? New version of hubs are OK? Has dt swiss really solved the issue or the problems happen even after service and in different series of hubs?


Hi
Initial hubs with “0” serial number were more likely to fail engagement.
Actual hubs being sold have a different number so most of them will be OK. Mine wasn’t - it has exactly the same problem, meaning DtSwiss did not solve the problem completely. 

Most people that had their hubs serviced did not experience any problems afterwards. Some did. Meaning the parts exchanged did not solve the problem in all cases.

So in fact the probability that your new hub bought today will fail engagement is not high. The probability that it fails and that service will not correct the problem is also not very high.

It is up to you to decide if you are willing to take that risk.

I bought a EXP serial number “0” before the problem was known. It failed.
I bought another EXP serial number “0” before the problem was acknowledge by DtSwiss. It still did not fail.
I bought a EXP serial number “1” before knowing that it could also fail. It failed.
Today, I would not buy a EXP hub.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I have been a believer in DT Swiss for many years, but I wouldn't consider any DT Swiss hubs until this mess blows over.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Cleared2land said:


> I have been a believer in DT Swiss for many years, but I wouldn't consider any DT Swiss hubs until this mess blows over.


The new 350s still use the standard star ratchet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Anecdotally, my buddy’s 240 (that he paid extra for) on his brand new Switchblade failed early in the 2021 season. It took a few weeks but it was addressed. He has since put massive mileage in, riding some pretty extreme terrain, with zero issues.

I have the older, non-EXP 240s on my Druid and 350s on my Honzo. Both have been flawless.

Personally, I will be steering clear of anything EXP, and maybe even anything DT Swiss. So many people lost a good chunk of the riding season because of this. IMHO, it was handled very poorly by DT Swiss. No warnings, no preventative proactive action, nothing. It’s like they left people to discover the inevitable failure on brand new bikes on their own. It’s like the C-suite went to bed each night with a bunch of ticking time bombs out there. No idea if anyone got hurt because of this.

Am I wrong on any of this? I would like to think I am. I stand to be corrected, and hope I am. 

Otherwise, it seems like brutal management by such a previously rock solid outfit. Highly unimpressed.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> I have been a believer in DT Swiss for many years, but I wouldn't consider any DT Swiss *EXP* hubs until this mess blows over.


Fify


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Anecdotally, my buddy’s 240 (that he paid extra for) on his brand new Switchblade failed early in the 2021 season. It took a few weeks but it was addressed. He has since put massive mileage in, riding some pretty extreme terrain, with zero issues.
> 
> I have the older, non-EXP 240s on my Druid and 350s on my Honzo. Both have been flawless.
> 
> ...


Biggest issue is we the general public have no actual idea (and never will) of how many of these hubs have been produced and how many have developed actual problems. We have maybe a few dozen people in this thread - for sure not everyone that has experienced this, but we have no way of knowing if that is 50% of the hubs out there? 1%? 

I agree I would avoid the exp stuff for now until new participants stop reporting problems - active people reporting problems unfortunately they now have an axe to grind (and rightly so) with DT.

No way would I boycott their excellent non exp hubs, their excellent spokes, nipples or rims.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I have about 1600km on my repaired 240 EXP and no major issues apart from the occasional click or twang. I just ordered new hubs for my new wheel build and went for the new 350s. Easier to service and upgrade to 54T and proven bomb proof.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Good choice


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

In case anyone like me want to do it at home, this is how I ended up doing it.
You don't need any special tools other than the cassette-like tool to get out the ratchet.
Here are the tools I used, and in the video you can see what not to do, and what to do.

1 22mm socket
1 socket arm, as long as possible - you can lengthen it with an old seatpost like I did if needed.
1 DT SWISS Disassembly Tool for Ratchet EXP Rear Hubs ( HXTXXX00N8387S )
1 hammer
1 vice (good for pressing the reused bearing into the new ratchet)

1 13mm socket (for tapping out bearing)
1 DT Swiss CL lockring (for tapping out bearing, fit's perfect without touching the teeth on the spline)


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

jupitersending said:


> In case anyone like me want to do it at home, this is how I ended up doing it.
> You don't need any special tools other than the cassette-like tool to get out the ratchet.
> Here are the tools I used, and in the video you can see what not to do, and what to do.
> 
> ...


I love how it is done in your living room!

Countersunk bolts to mount the vice? Or woodscrews into the plank from above?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Nande said:


> You are totally correct on the first 2 things!
> Regarding the grease, I believe my mechanic cleaned it up to take sharper pictures of the worn parts, so I would count that part out.
> 
> Nevertheless, my hub is in EXTREMELY bad shape! Of course it was not exchange as DtSwiss wrote in their report: the worst hub you could ever build could not be damaged like this one riding 10 meters! It was eventually 3 pedal turns…
> ...


The comment about the grease was on the likelihood of the DT Swiss service centre having done anything to the wheel. Any visible red coloured grease would suggest that they had at least opened up the hub for a quick look over but there isn't any in that photo. It suggests they didn't do anything to it.

Regarding grease, when the DT Swiss Ratchet EXP freehub on my wheel jammed I took it apart after getting home and cleaned out all the remaining grease so I could closely inspect the hub. This was_ before _I sent the hub off to be repaired. 

As the freehub components were going to be replaced, not ridden again, I didn't put any grease in the faulty freehub so my wheel when it was sent to the DT Swiss service centre had no grease at all in the freehub at that point. If the faulty wheel had then been sent back to me unopened it would have come back with both faulty parts and no grease in, as I'd cleaned it all out beforehand expecting the service centre to be fitting both new parts and fresh grease.

With your wheel if your mechanic had done the same step I did, cleaning the grease out to examine before sending the wheel off to DT Swiss, when you got the unserviced wheel back at that point it could have had very worn parts, plus no grease, which would possibly explain why it was so eager to jam within the first 10 seconds of the first ride.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

006_007 said:


> I love how it is done in your living room!
> 
> Countersunk bolts to mount the vice? Or woodscrews into the plank from above?


Countersunk bolts, yep. Don't have a proper workshop, so making do with what I have.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

leverage wins again


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

jupitersending said:


> In case anyone like me want to do it at home, this is how I ended up doing it.
> 
> 1 13mm socket (for tapping out bearing)


The 13 mm socket used to tap out the bearing... was that extracted by the inner or outer race?



jupitersending said:


> Don't have a proper workshop, so making do with what I have.


Kudos on making do with what you have!


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Cleared2land said:


> The 13 mm socket used to tap out the bearing... was that extracted by the inner or outer race?


You use the 13mm socket on the inner race. fits perfectly inside the ratchet, it's doesn't wiggle much. To be able to tap it you can use the CL lockring like shown in the vid (3:04). you lay down the lockring, on top of it the ratchet with the bearing downwards so that you don't damage the teeth on the ratchet - it fit's very nicely, and then the 13mm on top and tap it. Not much force needed when you do it that way and you don't need any special tools. Took me a good 5-10 minutes searching around for stuff to fit before I figured it out. I do have the proper tool for the bearing but wanted to see if I could manage without it.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Just an update on my fix and upgrade to 54t, I have ridden about 40km on them and no slips or anything wrong. Seems to work perfectly now. 
I just hope they will continue to run well many many thousands of KM more, and I'd like bearings to go first - not suddenly cassette slip and maybe crash.


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## tomis916 (Jun 20, 2010)

Nande said:


> I bought a EXP serial number “0” before the problem was known. It failed.
> I bought another EXP serial number “0” before the problem was acknowledge by DtSwiss. It still did not fail.
> I bought a EXP serial number “1” before knowing that it could also fail. It failed.
> Today, I would not buy a EXP hub.


I have a 240EXP hub which has been lightly used because I have other bikes, and started to have this problem today on a ride. I haven't looked up the serial number, yet, but thanks for the heads-up. I don't want to spend a lot of time cleaning and relubing if its a design flaw. Thank you.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

tomis916 said:


> I have a 240EXP hub which has been lightly used because I have other bikes, and started to have this problem today on a ride. I haven't looked up the serial number, yet, but thanks for the heads-up. I don't want to spend a lot of time cleaning and relubing if its a design flaw. Thank you.


Hi Tomis,
Let us know your serial number and what the outcome was.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

jupitersending said:


> In case anyone like me want to do it at home, this is how I ended up doing it.
> You don't need any special tools other than the cassette-like tool to get out the ratchet.
> Here are the tools I used, and in the video you can see what not to do, and what to do.
> 
> ...


this looks like me trying to remove my sram crank bolt


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

does anyone know if the 54T upgrade kits have this same problem? I'm considering buying a XRC wheelset and would also get the 54T upgrade, wondering if this would be a problem or have been a problem to anyone in the past.


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## polentozer (Dec 22, 2020)

mfa81 said:


> does anyone know if the 54T upgrade kits have this same problem? I'm considering buying a XRC wheelset and would also get the 54T upgrade, wondering if this would be a problem or have been a problem to anyone in the past.


AFAIK the problem is in the design/pairing of a fixed ratchet with a sprung ratchet instead of using old reliable double sprung ratchet design, which is resilient to bending forces of the axle. So I'd say yes, also 54T should have the same problem.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Update on my wheel Roval Control SL with DtSwiss 180 EXP serial number *“1”* that failed engagement:

Got an official answer from Specialized saying that, as they are not the manufacturers of the hub, it will be up to DtSwiss to solve this issue… 
Though I bought a SPECIALIZED/ROVAL product, my wheel is now for the 2nd time at DtSwiss.
DtSwiss lied the first time writing in their reports that all damaged parts were replaced (as we can see in the picture on previous post it is not the case). 
Had my wheel for 6 weeks until it failed. It is now 6 weeks since it failed and still no solution at sight.
Will keep you all updated on this bad taste soap opera.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Nande said:


> Update on my wheel Roval Control SL with DtSwiss 180 EXP serial number *“1”* that failed engagement:
> 
> Got an official answer from Specialized saying that, as they are not the manufacturers of the hub, it will be up to DtSwiss to solve this issue…
> Though I bought a SPECIALIZED/ROVAL product, my wheel is now for the 2nd time at DtSwiss.
> ...


Oh man, feel bad for you 
I hope they sort you out. I haven't had problems after I switched the parts, but I also know exactly what was done since I did it myself.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

DTSwiss should simply send a recall kit for people to do the work by themselves at home assuming they have the ability to do so instead of asking to have the wheel sent back to them which makes no sense, as always you want something done correctly you better do it your self unfortunately!


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

mfa81 said:


> DTSwiss should simply send a recall kit for people to do the work by themselves at home assuming they have the ability to do so instead of asking to have the wheel sent back to them which makes no sense, as always you want something done correctly you better do it your self unfortunately!


well, they did with me. I had the kit 2 days after filling out the form and being in contact with them.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

polentozer said:


> AFAIK the problem is in the design/pairing of a fixed ratchet with a sprung ratchet instead of using old reliable double sprung ratchet design, which is resilient to bending forces of the axle. So I'd say yes, also 54T should have the same problem.


My question was more about if the 54T kit are supposedly the new finish / material / tolerances that DT claims to have solved the problem, as well as the original 36 in the wheel set. Not sure if they would send me replacements for both.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

mfa81 said:


> My question was more about if the 54T kit are supposedly the new finish / material / tolerances that DT claims to have solved the problem, as well as the original 36 in the wheel set. Not sure if they would send me replacements for both.


I asked for a 54t replacement instead of 36 and got it, no questions asked. havn't had problems after I switched but time will tell I guess. I doubt they would send me a 54t kit of the "bad" kind since it would just lead to more problems for everyone.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

Nande said:


> Update on my wheel Roval Control SL with DtSwiss 180 EXP serial number *“1”* that failed engagement:
> 
> *Got an official answer from Specialized saying that, as they are not the manufacturers of the hub, it will be up to DtSwiss to solve this issue*…
> 
> ...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jupitersending said:


> well, they did with me. I had the kit 2 days after filling out the form and being in contact with them.


I just sent them an email; three days later I had the new parts + grease.

Perfect for 3,000km.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Update on my Roval Control SL - 180EXP serial number “1”


Got my wheel back (for the 2nd time) yesterday. Total 8 weeks waiting 
Report says freehub, fixed and moving ratchet were replaced. It looks now new inside.

Today did my first ride: 37,6km with 850+
Absolutely no issues.
Will give an update after 1.000km (as it has usually been the threshold for engagement failures) or if something happens before. Hope to have solved this for good…


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

Nande said:


> Thank you all for your inputs:
> Le Duke - not 100% sure if I have the red bushing that should touch both ratchets. Will definetly confirm this tomorrow. It would mean that the red bushing could be missing when I got the hub from DTSwiss... doubt that.
> 
> Otherwise - yes, it was a brand new part that was installed. First problems appeared before anyone touched it, so whatever it is, it started after 500km and kept getting worse.
> ...


So avoid Dt hubs that start w 0 serial number?


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

First ride on my fixed 240 in below 0 temps yesterday and no problems!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Stewiewin said:


> So avoid Dt hubs that start w 0 serial number?


Avoid EXP hubs with a “0” in serial number (check the thread to understand where to look for the number) as they are the “bad batch”.
Avoid EXP hubs starting with other numbers as they seem to be also failing 

There is a probability X that you buy a EXP hub and never experience any problems. Question is, nobody know what X is… so it all comes down to the risk you are willing to take.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

Nande said:


> Avoid EXP hubs with a “0” in serial number (check the thread to understand where to look for the number) as they are the “bad batch”.
> Avoid EXP hubs starting with other numbers as they seem to be also failing
> 
> There is a probability X that you buy a EXP hub and never experience any problems. Question is, nobody know what X is… so it all comes down to the risk you are willing to take.


ok ty


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Stewiewin said:


> So avoid Dt hubs that start w 0 serial number?


There are "some" (no idea if it is a large percentage or not) of them with S/N's starting non-zero that have the same issue.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

edubfromktown said:


> There are "some" (no idea if it is a large percentage or not) of them with S/N's starting non-zero that have the same issue.


ok ty


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

edubfromktown said:


> There are "some" (no idea if it is a large percentage or not) of them with S/N's starting non-zero that have the same issue.


It’s not the number they start with that people should be looking at. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> It’s not the number they start with that people should be looking at.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dt Swiss is going to not use a zero in any of their serial numbers starting Jan 1 2022 to avoid this confusion.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Recall of how to check the famous “number” on the serial number:
Serial number example: P2079940 308 DTP N 10027719

It’s the central digit on the middle of the production code that matters; on the above example “308” it’s the central “0” that matters. That is the only digit you should look up. “0” is bad. Not “0” is… also not good


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

006_007 said:


> Dt Swiss is going to not use a zero in any of their serial numbers starting Jan 1 2022 to avoid this confusion.





006_007 said:


> Dt Swiss is going to not use a zero in any of their serial numbers starting Jan 1 2022 to avoid this confusion.


would be better for DtSwiss to not manufacture failing hubs to avoid this confusion


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## holiday (Apr 27, 2004)

whew, just read through most of this, as I had put a new reserve xc28 wheelset in my cart yesterday with 240s. It has the microspline freehub, and my local bike shop has the exp freehub body and end caps set aside for me.
but,
a couple of questions, I'm not a bike mech or engineer..

is this failing part the the freehub body, or part of the hub itself? 

you can't use the old star ratchet system with the new 240 hub?

looking at the serial number, the freehub isn't the important part, it is the hub itself even if you replace the freehub?

My other wheelset option for this bike was the crank brothers synthesis xct 11 with I9 hydra, maybe I should go back to that one based on this thread.

Thx for any help!
Holiday


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

The old dual moving ratchet parts don’t work with EXP. The failure is caused by the moving ratchet ring getting stuck in the freehub body.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

holiday said:


> whew, just read through most of this, as I had put a new reserve xc28 wheelset in my cart yesterday with 240s. It has the microspline freehub, and my local bike shop has the exp freehub body and end caps set aside for me.
> but,
> a couple of questions, I'm not a bike mech or engineer..
> 
> ...


Dear Holiday

Difficult to answer your question regarding which hub you should choose… 
DtSwiss has a really light and hi tech product… that can fail. The main question is that nobody knows for sure the % of hubs that are failing… is it 0,5%? Is it 50%? So, presently, choosing a Dtswiss EXP product is in fact accepting this unknown risk, or choose another product… 

It is also a fact that most hubs that have failed and have been repaired, are working fine… but not all of them… some failed again…


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## holiday (Apr 27, 2004)

Thx!
After reading this, I'm leaning back toward the I9 hydra. I don't think I need so much engagement as a 160lb 50something with little power these days, but I don't want to purchase a question mark... My wheels are coming from a big online retailer, as they are only ones that have product, and I don't know if they can even check the serial numbers on the hub for me...
Thx for the good info.
Holiday


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## Skeptastic (Mar 31, 2012)

Insane thread. Thank you all for your contributions. DT 350's seem a bit difficult to source at the moment, but I can get 240 EXP's with no problem haha. As a clyde (210-230 naked depending on time of year), I have always been told DT hubs are the way forward. What other hubs would one recommend for a larger rider in the same price range as the DT hubs? I read a lot of praise for the I9 hubs, but that seems to be more about engagement and less about clyde-level durability. 

I may just have to hold off on my wheel build and thus frame build, until the 350's hit the market again. I've got another bike for the time being, but have been excited about starting the new year on the new hardtail!


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I just cancelled my order for DT350s due to ridiculous delivery times (sometimes mid 2023, ordered in September this year!) and bought Erase hubs instead.

My DTs also seem to suffer from the bearings tightening during use 🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Skeptastic (Mar 31, 2012)

MTB Engineer said:


> I just cancelled my order for DT350s due to ridiculous delivery times (sometimes mid 2023, ordered in September this year!) and bought Erase hubs instead.
> 
> My DTs also seem to suffer from the bearings tightening during use 🤦🏼‍♂️


2023!?


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

I've decided to go ahead and build with my 180exp. They have the 1 serial and at least I should be able to get quick support. Plus I'll have a backup wheel available.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Skeptastic said:


> 2023!?


Likely to be earlier but they couldn’t confirm anything so why bother.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

dundundata said:


> I've decided to go ahead and build with my 180exp. They have the 1 serial and at least I should be able to get quick support. Plus I'll have a backup wheel available.


let us know how it goes, hope it works out for you


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## rherold9 (Jul 27, 2020)

Welp, I found about this issue yesterday while I was riding and had a nice 1ish hour walk back to my truck. Rear wheel was just freewheeling in both directions. Initially I thought my chain came off randomly even with a chain guide. I was so lost and thought I broke the rear hub after the chain wasn't off. After a bit of research I found out I had this exact issue... Sigh. Wheels/driver have about 400 miles on them and were not touched since new. I've submitted the warranty claim on DT Swiss' website. For now, I've re-greased and put everything back together so I can ride while on vacation during the holiday's. I'll just bring a pick/grease/cloth in my hip pack when I ride to fix it when it happens again.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

rherold9 said:


> Welp, I found about this issue yesterday while I was riding and had a nice 1ish hour walk back to my truck. Rear wheel was just freewheeling in both directions. Initially I thought my chain came off randomly even with a chain guide. I was so lost and thought I broke the rear hub after the chain wasn't off. After a bit of research I found out I had this exact issue... Sigh. Wheels/driver have about 400 miles on them and were not touched since new. I've submitted the warranty claim on DT Swiss' website. For now, I've re-greased and put everything back together so I can ride while on vacation during the holiday's. I'll just bring a pick/grease/cloth in my hip pack when I ride to fix it when it happens again.


Hi! Welcome to the unfortunate growing group 
Your hub failed within the usual range - most fail within the first 1.000km / 620 miles.

Keep your expectations low, as re-greasing the hub will make it work eventually just for a few km… in your next ride, hub is highly likely to fail again. 
You will “just” have to take the wheel out, pull the spring out, wheel back in, and ride on… until it happens again.
For most of us, this is not an option as in one ride you may have to do this several times, making it annoying and time consuming.

Let us know how long DTswiss takes to solve it… and if you manage to make 620 miles with the upgraded set without failing again…


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## rherold9 (Jul 27, 2020)

Nande said:


> Hi! Welcome to the unfortunate growing group


Oof, welp so far after two rides (~26 miles) it hasn't gotten stuck yet after the clean and regrease, thankfully. They emailed me this morning saying I can send in my wheel for hub/body warranty replacement so the same business day technically as Friday was a 'holiday' when I sent in the request. So, that's at least good CS. Just sucks to have to find a box and be without a wheel for awhile. Going to wait until I'm back from the holiday's since it will be only another week or two if it continues to be cooperate. I have another bike back home I can use in the mean time

Will definitely keep things up-to-date on how it goes. Sad to see that you are saying even after warranty issues are still happening...


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

rherold9 said:


> Oof, welp so far after two rides (~26 miles) it hasn't gotten stuck yet after the clean and regrease, thankfully. They emailed me this morning saying I can send in my wheel for hub/body warranty replacement so the same business day technically as Friday was a 'holiday' when I sent in the request. So, that's at least good CS. Just sucks to have to find a box and be without a wheel for awhile. Going to wait until I'm back from the holiday's since it will be only another week or two if it continues to be cooperate. I have another bike back home I can use in the mean time
> 
> Will definitely keep things up-to-date on how it goes. Sad to see that you are saying even after warranty issues are still happening...


you should ask them to send you replacement parts, seems like they are doing that for some folks, sending the wheel back is a pita


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## rherold9 (Jul 27, 2020)

mfa81 said:


> you should ask them to send you replacement parts, seems like they are doing that for some folks, sending the wheel back is a pita


Will be checking a couple LBS to see if they have any extra wheel boxes. They will be sending a label over so not too bad. If not I'll ask for them to send em my way if they will allow it


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

rherold9 said:


> Will definitely keep things up-to-date on how it goes. Sad to see that you are saying even after warranty issues are still happening...


Through this long thread I think there is one person that had a problem still happening after the wheel was sent in (somehow the wheel with the old parts was unfortunately sent back to the user which still didn't work....duh) and that's all I recall. 

Like you said, DT has good customer service, and it will get sorted out.


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

I knew of this thread but had thought it had been long resolved... Reading the last few pages, it seems not.

So, DT really haven't solved this yet with the latest production run of 240s???

I was just about to fork out for some 240 road hubs for my gravel wheel build, but this has made me think twice... ergh!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Crayefish said:


> I knew of this thread but had thought it had been long resolved... Reading the last few pages, it seems not.
> 
> So, DT really haven't solved this yet with the latest production run of 240s???
> 
> I was just about to fork out for some 240 road hubs for my gravel wheel build, but this has made me think twice... ergh!


Unless you know the date of production and date of first use of the hubs, I’d say you’re jumping to conclusions. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

Le Duke said:


> Unless you know the date of production and date of first use of the hubs, I’d say you’re jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, when one buys hubs from a parts supplier, how does one know which date of production? You don't... its a lottery.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

As a long time supporter, I'm done with DT Swiss and this sh!t show. Normally a great product, but this one has been mishandled.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> As a long time supporter, I'm done with DT Swiss and this sh!t show. Normally a great product, but this one has been mishandled.


Not sure what you expect them to do? Full refund but keep the fixed product to use?

They pushed the envelope for weight reduction/performance. It has had some issues. It sucks yes. 

Have they provided a potential fix? Yes.

I think the whole issue is blown up due to supply chain issues / global pandemic.

Right now if on I was searching for a new set of hubs would I choose DT 240 exp hubs? No.

I would go for the 350 with the original star ratchet system though.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

I know it’s been discussed to death but I’m still baffled how a huge company like DT would take a proven product like the old 240 and “improve” it with a push-to-market strategy. “Hey, this is the new, better version of an already perfectly functional system”. What a failure on their part! This and them not bothering to properly test the system before release, especially in cold conditions.


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

Surely my idea is too crazy or optimistic, but it seems to me that the best thing for DT Swiss would be to ask all those affected with EXP hubs to return them and that DT Swiss change them for equivalent models that are not EXP but with the old style .

And taking advantage of the trip... that DT Swiss send the indicated spokes according to the type of hub and rim.

Well... friends of the affected EXP group "0", dreaming costs nothing.

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2022


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## mvilanova (Jan 10, 2021)

Well, I guess I'm another victim of this issue... The ratchet EXP system on my Roval Terra CLX wheels failed today and now it doesn't engage anymore. On Jan 31, 2021, a week after I bought the bike that came with these wheels, I reached out to Roval about feeling the freehub wasn't engaging some times and they never replied. I'm pretty disappointed that neither Specialized nor Roval reached out to me directly or via my local bike shop to let me know about this potential safety-related issue and to offer help to fix it.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

the last biker said:


> Surely my idea is too crazy or optimistic, but it seems to me that the best thing for DT Swiss would be to ask all those affected with EXP hubs to return them and that DT Swiss change them for equivalent models that are not EXP but with the old style .
> 
> And taking advantage of the trip... that DT Swiss send the indicated spokes according to the type of hub and rim.
> 
> ...


I would add.. friends of the affected EXP group “0” and other groups too  I also have a group “1” that failed


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

mvilanova said:


> Well, I guess I'm another victim of this issue... The ratchet EXP system on my Roval Terra CLX wheels failed today and now it doesn't engage anymore. On Jan 31, 2021, a week after I bought the bike that came with these wheels, I reached out to Roval about feeling the freehub wasn't engaging some times and they never replied. I'm pretty disappointed that neither Specialized nor Roval reached out to me directly or via my local bike shop to let me know about this potential safety-related issue and to offer help to fix it.


Dear mvilanova, back in January 2021 DtSwiss was not (at least officially) accepting that they had a problem with EXPs.
Back then, my posts here in this forum where driven in the direction “this dude must have done something wrong” 

It took a while for the truth to come up…

By the way, how many km did your hub have before failing? The standard is roughly within the first 1.000km…


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Quick update on my 180 EXP serial number “1” that was fixed twice  by DtSwiss:
It has now 910km and has never failed engagement again… so very near to break the psychological barrier of the 1.000km


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## mvilanova (Jan 10, 2021)

Nande said:


> Dear mvilanova, back in January 2021 DtSwiss was not (at least officially) accepting that they had a problem with EXPs.
> Back then, my posts here in this forum where driven in the direction “this dude must have done something wrong”
> 
> It took a while for the truth to come up…
> ...


Mine had around 1800 km. I assumed it was excessive grease, so I kept riding and ignoring the situation, because it would only happen some times when descending. But yesterday I was resuming my ride in a flat section and I heard a loud creak and after that it stopped engaging.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

mvilanova said:


> Mine had around 1800 km. I assumed it was excessive grease, so I kept riding and ignoring the situation, because it would only happen some times when descending. But yesterday I was resuming my ride in a flat section and I heard a loud creak and after that it stopped engaging.


Humm… those are disturbing news. 

A hub failing after so many km makes us all hold our breath longer until we believe to be in the “safe zone”. Nearly all engagement failures happened within the first 1.000km… 

Keep us updated on the fix and on the behaviour post fix.


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## a_double (Apr 14, 2013)

DT Swiss offered to fix my failed hub but is asking for the whole wheel to be sent in. What's your experience with this vice asking for the replacement parts? They stated special tools are needed thus an RMA is needed.


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## mvilanova (Jan 10, 2021)

a_double said:


> DT Swiss offered to fix my failed hub but is asking for the whole wheel to be sent in. What's your experience with this vice asking for the replacement parts? They stated special tools are needed thus an RMA is needed.


I was originally planning to go down this route (have my LBS source the parts from them and do it), but it was going to take the same amount of time as if they did, so I sent it to them as they offered to pay the shipping. It's more involved, but it gives me a little bit more peace of mind if they do it.


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## a_double (Apr 14, 2013)

Can someone confirm special tools are needed? If so, are they available for purchase? I'd rather do the swap myself. It gives me an opportunity to learn. Plus if things go wrong, I'm the only one to blame. It can't be that hard.


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## mvilanova (Jan 10, 2021)

a_double said:


> Can someone confirm special tools are needed? If so, are they available for purchase? I'd rather do the swap myself. It gives me an opportunity to learn. Plus if things go wrong, I'm the only one to blame. It can't be that hard.


I believe the only tool needed is this one: DT-Swiss EXP Star Ratchet Disassembly Tool- Ratchet EXP Hubs. You may need an additional tool to replace the bearing, which it is my understanding that DT Swiss does as part of the full rebuild.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

They replace both the moving and fixed ratchet and this requires the special tool to remove.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

a_double said:


> Can someone confirm special tools are needed? If so, are they available for purchase? I'd rather do the swap myself. It gives me an opportunity to learn. Plus if things go wrong, I'm the only one to blame. It can't be that hard.


Special tools are needed. And they are “more or less” out of stock everywhere. In Portugal, it seems I am the only person owning the full set of tools for EXP maintenance - no bike store here has them! (That is why I bought them online, from a website where it was the last set available).

It really depends on the DtSwiss policy on your country/state. Some of us have no choice but to deliver the wheel to our local bike shop. Some can send directly the wheel to DtSwiss. Some can receive the parts to exchange themselves. Some even got the parts and the tool directly from DtSwiss. I believe there is not much you can do about this, it all comes down on being lucky/unlucky on the place you live in…


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

You might be able to buy knockoff tools on ebay.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I bought ~a year's supply of 240 EXP hubs about a year ago.

This issue came to light shortly after I took delivery.

I sent an email to DT Swiss. They asked for S/N's.

I sent them the S/N's.

They sent me out a ratchet and spring for every hub.

I replaced all of these, then sent the pulled parts back on DT's dime.

I've built ~45 of them thus far.

I have not yet had a customer come to me reporting any problem.

To me, 100% success is just that.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

MTB Engineer said:


> I know it’s been discussed to death but I’m still baffled how a huge company like DT would take a proven product like the old 240 and “improve” it



Me too.

They caved to the hipster vocal minority whining about increased engagement. Even though so, so, so many of these people couldn't ride their way out of a paper bag with 1,000,000,000 POE.

At least the 350's can still use 18t ratchets, which are quieter and pretty much never, ever fail.


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## a_double (Apr 14, 2013)

if unused the repair is easier. just swap the parts in the cassette adapter/driver from what I understand. in other words, the part of ratchet mech screwed into the hub with the special tool can stay.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I bought ~a year's supply of 240 EXP hubs about a year ago.
> 
> This issue came to light shortly after I took delivery.
> 
> ...


But Mike, you have only dealt with a minimum of 45 of these. 

We have a record in here of at least one person that sent his back to dt and they (unfortunately) appear to not have done the update so when they got it back - it still wasn't working!. 

Obviously there is a significant problem here. Please stop the logical assumptions and pickup a pitchfork. 

Burn baby burn.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

It seems that the new ratchets fix the problem, if the hub was not used before installing them. 

Last I checked, I’m at roughly 2500 miles/4000km on mine. No slips, no problems. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> It seems that the new ratchets fix the problem, if the hub was not used before installing them.
> 
> Last I checked, I’m at roughly 2500 miles/4000km on mine. No slips, no problems.
> 
> ...


let's hope so. I am going to send DT my "1" serial number before use just incase.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

mikesee said:


> I bought ~a year's supply of 240 EXP hubs about a year ago.
> 
> This issue came to light shortly after I took delivery.
> 
> ...


really great to learn that.... we lack EXP failure statistics.
by the way, were all the hubs you replaced parts onto from the "0" series?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Le Duke said:


> It seems that the new ratchets fix the problem, if the hub was not used before installing them.
> 
> Last I checked, I’m at roughly 2500 miles/4000km on mine. No slips, no problems.
> 
> ...


My 180 EXP "1" series hub - one of those that should not fail  is now 1.090km, so pass the 1.000km... hopefully in the "safe zone".

(note: it has done 1.046km with original parts, failed engagement and has now done 1.090km with new parts installed)

My 240 EXP "0" hub that never failed is now 7.758km and never failed. Mounted on my spare wheel at the moment.

Had a 240 EXP "0" hub that failed engagement after 1.000km and failed shortly again after being retrofited at DtSwiss. don't have it anymore.
Had another 240 EXP "0" hub that failed engagement after 500km and failed again after a few hundred after being retrofited at DtSwiss. don't have it anymore.

There seems to be a good % of success with new hubs that were retrofited before the first ride. Hubs that are retrofited after failing while riding seem to have a slightly lower % of success...


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## mvilanova (Jan 10, 2021)

Got my wheel back from the DT Swiss service center yesterday. One week of downtime total. They replaced both ratchets, freehub, and drive side bearing. The hub is louder than before, which I kinda like. Rode the bike around the block and everything felt good. If I run into any issues, I'll let you know.


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## a_double (Apr 14, 2013)

mvilanova said:


> Got my wheel back from the DT Swiss service center yesterday. One week of downtime total. They replaced both ratchets, freehub, and drive side bearing. The hub is louder than before, which I kinda like. Rode the bike around the block and everything felt good. If I run into any issues, I'll let you know.


Did you inspect the internals yourself or by what they told you was replaced? Just wondering. Thanks for the note about turnaround time.


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## mvilanova (Jan 10, 2021)

a_double said:


> Did you inspect the internals yourself or by what they told you was replaced? Just wondering. Thanks for the note about turnaround time.


No, I did not go that far, as it clearly looked new from the outside and felt crisp when used. They included a detailed invoice with all the work performed and parts replaced, which I confirmed over email with them. Overall, I'm very satisfied with their support and turnaround time.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I would pull the freehub and take a careful lookie-see.


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## a_double (Apr 14, 2013)

mvilanova said:


> No, I did not go that far, as it clearly looked new from the outside and felt crisp when used. They included a detailed invoice with the all the work performed and parts replaced, which I confirmed over email with them. Overall, I'm very satisfied with their support and turnaround time.


Nice, I just shipped my hub today.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

mvilanova said:


> No, I did not go that far, as it clearly looked new from the outside and felt crisp when used. They included a detailed invoice with all the work performed and parts replaced, which I confirmed over email with them. Overall, I'm very satisfied with their support and turnaround time.


I hope DTSwiss really worked on your hub 
I also had an invoice from them saying all damaged parts were replaced:








… and in fact I think they did clean the outside of the hub and packed it. Because when I got it back it rode for 2 or 3 pedal strokes and failed again. Nothing had been done 
Apparently the second time it was sent back the work was correctly performed, as it has now more than 1.000km on the repaired hub with no issues.

As it seems that the type of support we get, the time it takes for the support to be given and it’s quality does only depend on the place on earth you are located - DtSwiss does not have a after sale policy, they have 200 after sale policies … hopefully you are safe. I was not.


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## mvilanova (Jan 10, 2021)

Nande said:


> I hope DTSwiss really worked on your hub
> I also had an invoice from them saying all damaged parts were replaced:
> View attachment 1965147
> 
> ...


I hope so too 😅 I don’t see why they would lie to me? Not much I can do about it now. I guess time will tell.

Did your invoice have a list of parts replaced? Here’s mine:


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

mvilanova said:


> I hope so too 😅 I don’t see why they would lie to me? Not much I can do about it now. I guess time will tell.
> 
> Did your invoice have a list of parts replaced? Here’s mine:


Humm… interesting… my invoice only has the top part (position 0010). No list of parts is included, as in fact they changed nothing  

Hope all is well with your hub! Keep us in the loop.


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## vloch (Sep 4, 2021)

Nande - I'm trying to remember back in the thread...you didn't actually send yours back to "DT Swiss" though right? You were directed to a 3rd party service facility?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

vloch said:


> Nande - I'm trying to remember back in the thread...you didn't actually send yours back to "DT Swiss" though right? You were directed to a 3rd party service facility?


Vloch… it is a long thread 
Actually in Portugal you are not allowed to send the parts to DtSwiss as an end customer. So, every time, I have to go to my Local Bike Shop - where the wheels were purchased - and they are sending to DtSwiss. Nevertheless, all my hubs that had issues were always serviced by DtSwiss directly (though through the LBS).

It was my Local Bike Shop that, facing the incompetent fact that I got the wheel back in the exact same condition as it was sent, gave me a copy of DtSwiss invoice as well as the emails exchanged between them.


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## mvilanova (Jan 10, 2021)

Nande said:


> Humm… interesting… my invoice only has the top part (position 0010). No list of parts is included, as in fact they changed nothing
> 
> Hope all is well with your hub! Keep us in the loop.


Ok, at least they seem to be consistent with what they say in the invoice and what they do. Thanks for confirming!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nande said:


> really great to learn that.... we lack EXP failure statistics.
> by the way, were all the hubs you replaced parts onto from the "0" series?



No idea. It was ~a year ago.

I didn't give it much thought -- then or now -- because DT's customer service/tech department has always been literally the best in the industry to deal with.

They did what they said they would do, which solved the problem I'd contacted them about.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mikesee said:


> No idea. It was ~a year ago.
> 
> I didn't give it much thought -- then or now -- because DT's customer service/tech department has always been literally the best in the industry to deal with.
> 
> They did what they said they would do, which solved the problem I'd contacted them about.


Didn't they fix like 50 of them for you? And all were properly fixed.

Really looks like they kinda are getting on top of this (apart from one incident where a hub was sent back without repairs actually being done).

Feeling bad I passed on a set of oil slick exp a while back.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

006_007 said:


> Didn't they fix like 50 of them for you? And all were properly fixed.
> 
> Really looks like they kinda are getting on top of this (apart from one incident where a hub was sent back without repairs actually being done).
> 
> Feeling bad I passed on a set of oil slick exp a while back.



Can't remember exactly how many, but it was something close to that.

They were all new/unlaced, so they sent me the ratchets and springs and I swapped them myself.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Apparently it seems that new/unused hubs have a easier and quite successful fix rate.
With hubs that have already failed engagement and need fixing, the success rate seems to be growing (less users complaining as time goes by)... probably these rates are all close to 100% (that is just my feeling).

The main issue is still risking to be on some long ride with our new set of wheels and suddenly engagment fails and the ride is ruined.

Had I known this issue before buying my "0" series hubs and I would probably have chosen another brand.
Had I known this issue could also happen with a "1" series hub and my choice for the last pair of wheels could be different.

*As a thumb rule:
Hubs that passes the 1.000km without failing will very likely never fail.
Hubs that fail and are fixed are very likely to never fail again.*


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## a_double (Apr 14, 2013)

Shipped my hub off Tuesday, got it back Saturday. I'm a couple of states away from CO for the record. It looks like they turned the hub around in less than a day. 

This 36T is louder, perhaps cause it's new. Hoping for the best on this hub.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

a_double said:


> Shipped my hub off Tuesday, got it back Saturday. I'm a couple of states away from CO for the record. It looks like they turned the hub around in less than a day.
> 
> This 36T is louder, perhaps cause it's new. Hoping for the best on this hub.


Those are good news.
Could you confirm if your hub is from the “0” series? For our “statistic”


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## a_double (Apr 14, 2013)

Nande said:


> Those are good news.
> Could you confirm if your hub is from the “0” series? For our “statistic”


confirmed


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## yellow01 (12 mo ago)

Hi all,

I just came across this thread while looking for other peoples experiences with the 240 EXP hub. 

About a week ago I received a new set of wheels with the 240 EXP road hub for my gravel bike. I’ve checked the serial number and the central digit is a “1”. After about 100km I haven’t had any issues with them but I do think they sound a bit odd. While freewheeling I first hear a faint rattle (was hoping they would be a bit louder btw) and after a second or so the sound fades until I can’t hear it anymore. The strange thing is that in a bike stand the sound is constant (and a bit louder obviously). I’m a little concerned and was wondering if this is an early symptom of the engagement issue. How do your hubs sound while freewheeling?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

yellow01 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just came across this thread while looking for other peoples experiences with the 240 EXP hub.
> 
> About a week ago I received a new set of wheels with the 240 EXP road hub for my gravel bike. I’ve checked the serial number and the central digit is a “1”. After about 100km I haven’t had any issues with them but I do think they sound a bit odd. While freewheeling I first hear a faint rattle (was hoping they would be a bit louder btw) and after a second or so the sound fades until I can’t hear it anymore. The strange thing is that in a bike stand the sound is constant (and a bit louder obviously). I’m a little concerned and was wondering if this is an early symptom of the engagement issue. How do your hubs sound while freewheeling?


It is a fact that most people that had engagement failures commented that their hubs sounded quiet. And after the repair, they sounded louder. Nevertheless I think it is wrong to assume that the there is a direct connection between the sound and the probability of failure, because nobody with a quiet hub that never had issues will look for this thread and comment “I knew nothing about this problem, my hub is quiet and never failed” 
Your hub is a “1”. For the moment I am the only unfortunate that had issues with a “1”. There is a good chance you are safe… statistics shows that the first 1.000km are the most prone to failure so wait and see…


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## yellow01 (12 mo ago)

Thanks, I guess I’ll indeed just wait and see. I’ll report back my series “1” findings later 😊


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## the last biker (Oct 12, 2005)

a_double said:


> Shipped my hub off Tuesday, got it back Saturday. I'm a couple of states away from CO for the record. It looks like they turned the hub around in less than a day.
> 
> This 36T is louder, perhaps cause it's new. Hoping for the best on this hub.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CO DT Swiss Service Center is excellent, they have very good attention, they are fast, attentive and solve the problem.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

As an update on my repaired DT 180 Ratchet EXP freehub from a few months ago I took it apart and serviced the freehub the other day. With the new parts it all still looks good inside so far. The anodising on the freehub splines was unmarked and the silver star ratchet wasn’t showing any signs of wear either.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

the last biker said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> CO DT Swiss Service Center is excellent, they have very good attention, they are fast, attentive and solve the problem.


They really are great. 

[email protected]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

WR304 said:


> As an update on my repaired DT 180 Ratchet EXP freehub from a few months ago I took it apart and serviced the freehub the other day. With the new parts it all still looks good inside so far. The anodising on the freehub splines was unmarked and the silver star ratchet wasn’t showing any signs of wear either.


WR304, would you let us know approximately how many km you have already ridden with it?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Nande said:


> WR304, would you let us know approximately how many km you have already ridden with it?


Up to today the repaired freehub has done 150 hours riding / 2,210 miles distance.

So far this winter it's been wet but quite mild so I've still been able to get out for fairly frequent outdoors rides, rather than just being sat indoors on the turbo trainer like some winters.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Can someone do me a huge favor and clarify if this engagement issue is isolated to the 240's or are the current 2021+ model 350's effected by it as well? I've done a bit of searching off this site and it is unclear to me if DT Swiss made the same "upgrade" to the 350's ratchet system as they made to the 240's.

I'll fully admit I'm feeling lazy this morning and can't bring myself to read through 38 pages of this thread....

Thanks.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Can someone do me a huge favor and clarify if this engagement issue is isolated to the 240's or are the current 2021+ model 350's effected by it as well? I've done a bit of searching off this site and it is unclear to me if DT Swiss made the same "upgrade" to the 350's ratchet system as they made to the 240's.
> 
> I'll fully admit I'm feeling lazy this morning and can't bring myself to read through 38 pages of this thread....
> 
> Thanks.


The 350s still use the old star ratchet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> The 350s still use the old star ratchet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Excellent, thank you.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Is there any reason at all I should use the new 240 instead of my 240S set I already own? I am very pleased with the workings of older moving two piece engagement gears which started life with the 54t. 2K miles and no visual wear anywhere.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Pedalon2018 said:


> Is there any reason at all I should use the new 240 instead of my 240S set I already own? I am very pleased with the workings of older moving two piece engagement gears which started life with the 54t. 2K miles and no visual wear anywhere.


no


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

dundundata said:


> no


Thanks. I was thinking of spending stupid money that may not even be better…


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Perhaps a rational decision.


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

In the end I opted for 350 Road hubs, instead of the 240 exp for my gravel wheelset. I simply didn't fancy spending 200 euros more to have more chance of failure.

I do much prefer the look of the updated straight pull 240s and 350 mtbs though... wish the roads would have been done too.


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## kitsilanobob (Nov 18, 2005)

Well shoot - I just found this thread literally the day after I ordered a set of 240 hubs (and they have shipped). I got them from a large online retailed (bike24) so I am hopeful I got a new batch and that they have done something to address the problem.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

kitsilanobob said:


> Well shoot - I just found this thread literally the day after I ordered a set of 240 hubs (and they have shipped). I got them from a large online retailed (bike24) so I am hopeful I got a new batch and that they have done something to address the problem.


Just send DT Swiss an email when you get them. They’ll send you new ratchet, spring and grease for free.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kitsilanobob (Nov 18, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Just send DT Swiss an email when you get them. They’ll send you new ratchet, spring and grease for free.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thanks!


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

kitsilanobob said:


> thanks!


… the sending of the parts directly to you will depend on the DtSwiss policy in your country… not sure how it works in Canada.
Nevertheless, IF your hub is not from the “0” batch (probably it is not) and IF you get the parts from DtSwiss, I would recomend to use the hub as it is (it may never give you any problems) AND keep the parts in stock for a “just in case” situation.


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## kitsilanobob (Nov 18, 2005)

I’d be curious to hear how people that got a replacement ratchet or had the ”1” in their serial number are doing with their Hubs. Any problems?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

kitsilanobob said:


> I’d be curious to hear how people that got a replacement ratchet or had the ”1” in their serial number are doing with their Hubs. Any problems?


There aren’t many of us… apparently, I was the first one to mention it.
Though I started this thread as the only one with problems with an EXP (it was a “0” series by the way) and a few months after… we have today a thread with 40 pages 

My “1” hub was sent twice to DtSwiss (first time they probably sent it back and done nothing). Today, it has 1.700km done after being fixed and is working perfectly.
The doubt remains nonetheless, as I have a second pair of wheels that I should sell… but I don’t, because… “you never know” if it happens again…


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Crayefish said:


> In the end I opted for 350 Road hubs, instead of the 240 exp for my gravel wheelset. I simply didn't fancy spending 200 euros more to have more chance of failure.
> 
> I do much prefer the look of the updated straight pull 240s and 350 mtbs though... wish the roads would have been done too.


I understand but for me, as I approach the top of a huge climb, I know that I am riding some of the lightest mtb parts available and if I don’t make the top, it’s all on me…..no equipment excuses…and it drives me to the summit. So I also know regardless what you pay for a heavier component, you will be slepping that weight up every incline you encounter until the part dies…..every grade you come to…..So I spent the extra for the 240s (yes they never had engagement issues) and and any other component that can save 30 or more grams in one component…..


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

Pedalon2018 said:


> I understand but for me, as I approach the top of a huge climb, I know that I am riding some of the lightest mtb parts available and if I don’t make the top, it’s all on me…..no equipment excuses…and it drives me to the summit. So I also know regardless what you pay for a heavier component, you will be slepping that weight up every incline you encounter until the part dies…..every grade you come to…..So I spent the extra for the 240s (yes they never had engagement issues) and and any other component that can save 30 or more grams in one component…..


I guess that when one weighs just shy of 100kg (that's 220lbs for those on the other side of the pond), 30g becomes slightly less of an issue 

Also... I wish I had more climbs here. But alas, I need to travel to France or Germany for that.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Crayefish said:


> I guess that when one weighs just shy of 100kg (that's 220lbs for those on the other side of the pond), 30g becomes slightly less of an issue
> 
> Also... I wish I had more climbs here. But alas, I need to travel to France or Germany for that.


The Netherlands are known for their mountains 

… you have a point, lots of people do spend a few thousand euros more to save 1kg in their bike, when they have more than a dozen kg in excess in their bodies 
It is extremely cheaper and healthier to take 1kg of one’s body than of one’s bike!


… nevertheless the low weight of the EXP are extremely appealing


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

Nande said:


> The Netherlands are known for their mountains
> 
> … you have a point, lots of people do spend a few thousand euros more to save 1kg in their bike, when they have more than a dozen kg in excess in their bodies
> It is extremely cheaper and healthier to take 1kg of one’s body than of one’s bike!
> ...


Hey... who said my weight was excess? 🤪 Haha. OK OK, so maybe 5kg are. But the other 95kg are pure bone and muscle baby! 💪


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Nande said:


> The Netherlands are known for their mountains
> 
> … you have a point, lots of people do spend a few thousand euros more to save 1kg in their bike, when they have more than a dozen kg in excess in their bodies
> It is extremely cheaper and healthier to take 1kg of one’s body than of one’s bike!
> ...


You do both but 30g here and there adds up quickly. SID or Fox SC weighs way less than other less expensive suspension bits. My bike comes in just under 22 lbs fully equipped. And I lost 35 lbs climbing to the peaks.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Well… if we were all not concerned about bike weight and performance, we would not have bought or considered buying a DtSwiss EXP hub… and we would not be in this thread


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

Add another to the list. Today was the second time the hub body free wheeled. I have the Roval Control SL wheels with the DT Swiss 180 hubs. Are you checking the serial number on the hub? The wheels were built November 2020. The wheels are great, the hub, not so much. I only have maybe 150 miles on them. Time to call DT Swiss in CO. It’s sad to spend over $2K on wheels and have issues with something.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

EH1”40 said:


> Add another to the list. Today was the second time the hub body free wheeled. I have the Roval Control SL wheels with the DT Swiss 180 hubs. Are you checking the serial number on the hub? The wheels were built November 2020. The wheels are great, the hub, not so much. I only have maybe 150 miles on them. Time to call DT Swiss in CO. It’s sad to spend over $2K on wheels and have issues with something.


Hi!
Welcome to the unfortunate group… 
If you check the first post of this thread (I’ve been trying to keep it updated) you can find the link to the DTSwiss serial number check. 
Is your hub a “0” or a non-zero serial number?
Do keep a long issue short, most of the issues have occurred with “0” serial number hubs. There have been issues with non-zero hubs, but it is apparently rare.
Keep us updated on your serial number and if the fix that will be made actually fixes it.


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

Nande said:


> Hi!
> Welcome to the unfortunate group…
> If you check the first post of this thread (I’ve been trying to keep it updated) you can find the link to the DTSwiss serial number check.
> Is your hub a “0” or a non-zero serial number?
> ...


I pulled my cassette off and looked everywhere but no part number. It is a Roval DT Swiss 180 hub. I’ll get a hold of DT Swiss this week. My freewheeling happened twice so it is inevitable.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

EH1”40 said:


> I pulled my cassette off and looked everywhere but no part number. It is a Roval DT Swiss 180 hub. I’ll get a hold of DT Swiss this week. My freewheeling happened twice so it is inevitable.


If you have centre lock hubs you need to remove the centre lock brake rotor and the serial number is printed on the hub underneath where the rotor sits.


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

I found the serial number. 406 is the middle number. Time to get a repair. Thanks everyone.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

EH1”40 said:


> I found the serial number. 406 is the middle number. Time to get a repair. Thanks everyone.


good luck! 
Let us know later if your repaired hub passed the threshold of 1.000km without problems - as it seems that hubs that run for 1.000km without issues are highly likely to never fail.


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

Nande said:


> good luck!
> Let us know later if your repaired hub passed the threshold of 1.000km without problems - as it seems that hubs that run for 1.000km without issues are highly likely to never fail.


DT Swii sent this message about my hub.

Your hub got a full and total rebuild, ratchets, bearings, free hub, etc…. way more than just the spacer.

Apparently they rebuilt everything. I will post after it gets some miles on it.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

EH1”40 said:


> DT Swii sent this message about my hub.
> 
> Your hub got a full and total rebuild, ratchets, bearings, free hub, etc…. way more than just the spacer.
> 
> Apparently they rebuilt everything. I will post after it gets some miles on it.


I am not sure how curious and how technical knowledgable you are… if you want and know how to do it, have a look at the hub when you receive it…
My last failed hub (a 180EXP that had a “1” serial number, so it should not fail) got back from DtSwiss with a similar description as yours; it lasted for 2 pedal strokes and failed again, just to discover that they did nothing to it!! The SECOND time it went back they apparently solved everything as it has now 3.200km with no issues.


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

Nande said:


> I am not sure how curious and how technical knowledgable you are… if you want and know how to do it, have a look at the hub when you receive it…
> My last failed hub (a 180EXP that had a “1” serial number, so it should not fail) got back from DtSwiss with a similar description as yours; it lasted for 2 pedal strokes and failed again, just to discover that they did nothing to it!! The SECOND time it went back they apparently solved everything as it has now 3.200km with no issues.


I would be interested. I’m fairly technical and do most of the maintenance on my bikes. That would be sad if they didn’t replace anything. Thanks.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

EH1”40 said:


> I would be interested. I’m fairly technical and do most of the maintenance on my bikes. That would be sad if they didn’t replace anything. Thanks.


The DT Swiss Ratchet EXP freehub is tool free to remove. You can pull the freehub body straight off by hand to inspect the parts inside.

I think it’s worth doing just to check if the grease application is ok as well as if the parts are new.

Post #641 of this thread is where I took the freehub off and found there was a bit too much grease in there on my repaired Roval Control SL rear hub. I redid the grease and the repaired hub has been ok since then.


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

WR304 said:


> The DT Swiss Ratchet EXP freehub is tool free to remove. You can pull the freehub body straight off by hand to inspect the parts inside.
> 
> I think it’s worth doing just to check if the grease application is ok as well as if the parts are new.
> 
> Post #641 of this thread is where I took the freehub off and found there was a bit too much grease in there on my repaired Roval Control SL rear hub. I redid the grease and the repaired hub has been ok since then.


What grease did you use? I believe it is a thinner type of grease. I have the Park blue and green grease right now. I will inspect when it comes back. I took note of how much grease was in there beforehand. I’m not quite sure why they changed my bearings.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

There are several freehub specific grease options available. I have been using Dumonde Tech Freehub Grease. DT Swiss has their own freehub grease, but they are all about the same. Some use Lubiplate 105 Assembly lube (looks and feels like Dumonde Tech).

The Park grease you have is a notably thicker bearing grease.


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

Cleared2land said:


> There are several freehub specific grease options available. I have been using Dumonde Tech Freehub Grease. DT Swiss has their own freehub grease, but they are all about the same. Some use Lubiplate 105 Assembly lube (looks and feels like Dumonde Tech).
> 
> The Park grease you have is a notably thicker bearing grease.


For my I9 hub I use the Dumond Tech hub oil. I will have to buy some grease for this specific hub. Thank you


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I run oil in the winter.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

EH1”40 said:


> What grease did you use? I believe it is a thinner type of grease. I have the Park blue and green grease right now. I will inspect when it comes back. I took note of how much grease was in there beforehand. I’m not quite sure why they changed my bearings.


I use Buzzy’s Slick Honey for my DT Swiss Ratchet EXP freehubs. It’s a very thin grease. Too thick a grease can cause the freehub to jam.

I make a point of servicing the Ratchet EXP freehub quite frequently, every few months, which isn’t much hassle as it comes apart easily.


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## Purulento (Aug 27, 2009)

The original grease of dtswiss freehubs smells exactly like slick honey's...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Purulento said:


> The original grease of dtswiss freehubs smells exactly like slick honey's...


You can't go purely by smell. A taste test is important as well. The dt grease is bitter with nutty undertones.


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## Purulento (Aug 27, 2009)

006_007 said:


> You can't go purely by smell. A taste test is important as well. The dt grease is bitter with nutty undertones.


I notice the smell when I serviced my roval rear hub (witch shares the same dt internals). Didn't taste it though


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

I got my wheel back Thursday. Everything looked new including the spline drive hub body. The click was very solid and distinct. One 2-hour ride with no issues. Will post after I get some miles on it.


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## jdlbb (Oct 29, 2019)

Le Duke said:


> Just send DT Swiss an email when you get them. They’ll send you new ratchet, spring and grease for free.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just got a custom set of wheels with 240 exp hubs. Having found this thread beforehand I checked my s/n first thing and they're a "1". I decided to try and be proactive and email DT to see if they'd send out a replacement ratchet set but they said that since I have a "1" hub I don't need them. I suppose I'll take it apart and take some photos just for reference as to what they look like in unused condition and then keep an eye on them.


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)




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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

I fixed my own internals and switched to 54t ratchet while I was at it. DT sent me the internals (upgraded 54t version) and I bought the tools myself.
It wasn't easy to get the ratchet out of the shell. Not easy at all. But in the end it went ok.

I have been riding for about 5 months now without problems. Around 1500km.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

So is this still an issue? If I buy a set of wheels built up with DT EXP hubs now I have to be worried about this?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

yourrealdad said:


> So is this still an issue? If I buy a set of wheels built up with DT EXP hubs now I have to be worried about this?


Hard to say…
There is a high chance that your hubs will be ok. Worrying about it depends on how much you want to worry about a slight change that you get a problem ☹
DtSwiss never fully acknowledged this issue, so there is no date after which you are certain not to have a problem.
It is a fact that as months pass this thread gets less and less problems input.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

yourrealdad said:


> So is this still an issue? If I buy a set of wheels built up with DT EXP hubs now I have to be worried about this?


It's not hard to say.

Probably you will not have an issue. And if you do you reach out to dt swiss and they will fix it.

/End


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

006_007 said:


> It's not hard to say.
> 
> if you do you reach out to dt swiss and they will fix it.
> 
> /End


In real time, on the trail? 10 miles in?

Oh, you mean weeks later, after sending the wheel to them...or after they send the parts and taking it to the lbs and having them install the new ratchets, b/c it's impossible to do without a specialty tool that almost no one would own.

Why the lovefest of 240 vs. 350? 60g? I don't get it.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

eatdrinkride said:


> In real time, on the trail? 10 miles in?
> 
> Oh, you mean weeks later, after sending the wheel to them...or after they send the parts and taking it to the lbs and having them install the new ratchets, b/c it's impossible to do without a specialty tool that almost no one would own.
> 
> Why the lovefest of 240 vs. 350? 60g? I don't get it.


The parts they send you are a new ratchet and a new spring.

You can do it at home, by yourself, with your hands.

I asked for a new ratchet on a brand new hub that wasn’t built up yet. 2.5 days later, the parts arrived at my house. I have 5,000 miles on that hub, with no problems, ever. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Well, I guess I will go with the EXPs. I have been avoiding DT until this was figured out, but sounds like it won’t be. Other option is Extralite and I don’t really want those.

Good news is DT is about 1hr away so should be easy to get service if needed.

Bummer this is still possible as I can’t count how many DT hubs and wheels I have had and all flawless.

New bike just came with XMC 1501 as well


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

yourrealdad said:


> Well, I guess I will go with the EXPs. I have been avoiding DT until this was figured out, but sounds like it won’t be. Other option is Extralite and I don’t really want those.
> 
> Good news is DT is about 1hr away so should be easy to get service if needed.
> 
> ...


I’d read @mikesee ‘s posts here; I think you’ll find them reassuring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

Remember they’re only sending parts out in the US. The rest of us have to send our wheels or hubs to some place like Cycle Service Nordic and wait 3+ weeks for them to come back.

My “fixed” EXP 240 still skipping on occasion and I would not buy them again. The entire system is idiotic and difficult to service vs. the old bomb proof ratchets. Sure, it may be stiffer but who’s actually complained about hub stiffness ever?


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

Le Duke said:


> The parts they send you are a new ratchet and a new spring.
> 
> You can do it at home, by yourself, with your hands.
> 
> ...


Dear Le Duke, so many months have passed and I am still jealous of how things went so fast for you! 😊

As already discussed in this thread, the solving speed depends hugely on your geographic location - it can take from 2 days to nearly 2 months… I still remember having to wait several weeks for my wheels that came back from DtSwiss untouched (so the problem remained), sending them back again and having to wait several weeks more ☹

In the unlikely event that one gets a defective hub (I still consider/hope that this is an unlikely event), it means the bike is incapable to continue riding - be it at your doorstep or at some far away adventure you travel to


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

MTB Engineer said:


> Remember they’re only sending parts out in the US. The rest of us have to send our wheels or hubs to some place like Cycle Service Nordic and wait 3+ weeks for them to come back.
> 
> My “fixed” EXP 240 still skipping on occasion and I would not buy them again. The entire system is idiotic and difficult to service vs. the old bomb proof ratchets. Sure, it may be stiffer but who’s actually complained about hub stiffness ever?


Uau!!! Your fixed system continues to skip sometimes?? Did not know that - usually they are either fixed for good or break down again…
Any ideia why it skips sometimes? Is it on specific occasions?


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

It seems EXP is very sensitive to lubrication. If I clean and relube the hub every ~1000km there are usually no issues, but anything beyond that and the hub skips with a bang about 2-3 times during a ride.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

No issues on the two that they sent me parts for. I honestly can't remember which wheels I have them on anymore and don't think about it. Just usual maintenance here and there. Took about five minutes to do the parts swap in my garage.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

MTB Engineer said:


> It seems EXP is very sensitive to lubrication. If I clean and relube the hub every ~1000km there are usually no issues, but anything beyond that and the hub skips with a bang about 2-3 times during a ride.


I haven't lubricated mine since I got them and replaced the ratchet/spring.


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

yourrealdad said:


> Well, I guess I will go with the EXPs. I have been avoiding DT until this was figured out, but sounds like it won’t be. Other option is Extralite and I don’t really want those.
> 
> Good news is DT is about 1hr away so should be easy to get service if needed.
> 
> ...


I have the specialized Control SL wheels with 180 hubs. DT Swiss rebuilt everything on my hubs. I haven’t had a problem since.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Well hopefully reassuring posts. Seems that Nande is the only known? person to have issue with a "1" hub?

My new bike has 240 with "1" hubs so hopefully fingers crossed.

Just ordered a two sets of wheels. Went with 240 on one and 350 on the other, just so I didn't have to worry and they were not wheels where weight was a factor in decision making.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

yourrealdad said:


> Well hopefully reassuring posts. Seems that Nande is the only known? person to have issue with a "1" hub?
> 
> My new bike has 240 with "1" hubs so hopefully fingers crossed.
> 
> Just ordered a two sets of wheels. Went with 240 on one and 350 on the other, just so I didn't have to worry and they were not wheels where weight was a factor in decision making.


There are other known cases of “non 0” hubs with problems, but far less than the initial “0” ones.


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## biker2591 (Dec 18, 2010)

eatdrinkride said:


> In real time, on the trail? 10 miles in?
> 
> Oh, you mean weeks later, after sending the wheel to them...or after they send the parts and taking it to the lbs and having them install the new ratchets, b/c it's impossible to do without a specialty tool that almost no one would own.
> 
> Why the lovefest of 240 vs. 350? 60g? I don't get it.


I agree and went with the 350 for peace of mind even though I had the non EXP 240s on my previous bike (which had zero issues) .

The new 350 has been problem free since the beginning of this riding season.


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## vloch (Sep 4, 2021)

My new ride came with XMC 1501s over the winter. Saw this thread and mine had the serial number that was impacted. I never even road the bike, just called up DT and they WANTED the wheel shipped to them – I’m in Minnesota, USA. I sent the wheel in and about 7 days later had it back. Forgot all about it until I saw this thread again today. I have been riding the bike several times a week all season and never the slightest hint of an engagement issue. I do however have an issue with my bike and trees trying to occupy the same space on tight single-track trails. 😊


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Le Duke said:


> The parts they send you are a new ratchet and a new spring.
> 
> You can do it at home, by yourself, with your hands.
> 
> ...


You need the tool to get out the ratchet from the hub.
This is me having a super easy time doing this at home:


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

jupitersending said:


> You need the tool to get out the ratchet from the hub.
> This is me having a super easy time doing this at home:


I wouldn’t risk all that for a $2500 wheel set. DT Swiss did mine and changed out other parts. Now it’s all still covered under warranty.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jupitersending said:


> You need the tool to get out the ratchet from the hub.
> This is me having a super easy time doing this at home:


I'm not talking about the same thing you are.

If you have a new, unused hub or wheel, there is no risk of the part you replaced being damaged. So, DT does not tell you to replace it. The part that was improperly manufactured, the floating ratchet, is what they send you, as well as a new spring.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

EH1”40 said:


> I wouldn’t risk all that for a $2500 wheel set. DT Swiss did mine and changed out other parts. Now it’s all still covered under warranty.


Mine is still covered too. Why wouldn't it be? 
DT swiss sent me the parts and the instructions and even upgraded my from 34t to 54t for free because I asked them to. 
I just didn't want to be without wheels for a long time.



Le Duke said:


> I'm not talking about the same thing you are.
> 
> If you have a new, unused hub or wheel, there is no risk of the part you replaced being damaged. So, DT does not tell you to replace it. The part that was improperly manufactured, the floating ratchet, is what they send you, as well as a new spring.


Ok I see - if you didn't ride the wheels at all then it's correct - it's very simple. But I wonder how many people get the set of wheels and immediately know about this problem?


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

The only way they would replace a new unused part though is if it has a "0" in the middle serial correct? There is no visual way to check, so if you have a "1" hub you will have to ride and pray, right?


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

yourrealdad said:


> The only way they would replace a new unused part though is if it has a "0" in the middle serial correct? There is no visual way to check, so if you have a "1" hub you will have to ride and pray, right?


I had a 0 in the serial number and the issue happened to me twice with only a few hundred miles on the wheels. It took 1 1/2 weeks total to get them fixed. DT Swiss replaced everything including the hub. I have 800 miles without an issue.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

yourrealdad said:


> The only way they would replace a new unused part though is if it has a "0" in the middle serial correct? There is no visual way to check, so if you have a "1" hub you will have to ride and pray, right?


Yeah but if you order from a shop with a good stock turnaround, you should be quite safe. Just order from one of the larger online retailers.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

EH1”40 said:


> I had a 0 in the serial number and the issue happened to me twice with only a few hundred miles on the wheels. It took 1 1/2 weeks total to get them fixed. DT Swiss replaced everything including the hub. I have 800 miles without an issue.


Right, my point is that if you get a "0" you shouldn't ride it at all and just get the quick fix. If you ride it, then you will have to send it in or pull out the inner ratchet yourself.

If you have a "1" then ride and pray


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

yourrealdad said:


> If you have a "1" then ride and pray


That's what i don't get. They fixed the issue as far as I know. So you don't need to pray if you just get set from a newish batch. It was fixed quite some time ago.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

jupitersending said:


> Yeah but if you order from a shop with a good stock turnaround, you should be quite safe. Just order from one of the larger online retailers.


Everything is out of my hands at this point. New bike came with a "1" wheelset so I will ride it and keep my fingers crossed, which makes it hard to brake.

New wheelsets are from a large supplier, but I assume also buys large amounts of hubs at a time, so there could be some left in their supply. Only one will have 240s though.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

yourrealdad said:


> Everything is out of my hands at this point. New bike came with a "1" wheelset so I will ride it and keep my fingers crossed, which makes it hard to brake.
> 
> New wheelsets are from a large supplier, but I assume also buys large amounts of hubs at a time, so there could be some left in their supply. Only one will have 240s though.


You should be safe. Overstocking has not been the biggest problem the last year


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

jupitersending said:


> That's what i don't get. They fixed the issue as far as I know. So you don't need to pray if you just get set from a newish batch. It was fixed quite some time ago.


Nande had issues and says there are others that had issues with "1" hubs. I must have missed those other users though in this thread


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

yourrealdad said:


> Nande had issues and says there are others that had issues with "1" hubs. I must have missed those other users though in this thread


I think Internet forums often exaggerate problems quite a bit. I don't doubt he had issues, but considering how most people who will* not* go to this forum and write something like "hey I had no problems at all, wohoo" I think determining how widespread a problem is by looking at forums posts is will often result in wrong assumptions.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Totally agree, been proven that people are more likely to take time to complain than to post positive views. I am also not a sky's falling type of person, but people are still running into issues on a confirmed problem. Similar to say a shimano crank issue.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

yourrealdad said:


> Nande had issues and says there are others that had issues with "1" hubs. I must have missed those other users though in this thread


Nande did a great job bringing attention to the problem.

DT has done a great job for the solution.

The situation is over now, and there is no need to keep beating this to death. But this thread is proof that we enjoy a good beating.

There were no others in this thread that you missed.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

yourrealdad said:


> The only way they would replace a new unused part though is if it has a "0" in the middle serial correct? There is no visual way to check, so if you have a "1" hub you will have to ride and pray, right?


You are correct. 
if you have a 1, it’s ride and pray. 
truth is that you will most probably be safe… but there is always a tiny small if.


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## Nande (May 19, 2020)

006_007 said:


> Nande did a great job bringing attention to the problem.
> 
> DT has done a great job for the solution.
> 
> ...


Agree that the situation is over now… it’s quite unlikely that anyone will have an issue with a set of wheels bought today. 
i have to disagree to the good job of Dt Swiss though… the situation was never clear and outside the US it could take a really long time to solve.


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