# Full suspension bikes for DJ and Slopestyle



## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

hello, sorry for the very vague title. im having a hard time with deciding between a couple frames for my next bike and thought maybe you guys could help.

first, it will be used for DJs only. i said slopestyle too because the DJ's here range from 10 to 30 foot gaps. im getting up in to the 18-20 foot range and so they are slightly bigger than some DJ's. with that being said they don't have much of a lip to them. There are some BMX style jumps popping up lately though and they seem like they would be more fun with a smaller bike.

now, here are what i have narrowed it down to

larger jump bikes
Banshee Wildcard in the 5" setting with a Talas or float 36 at 5 inches
Corsair Konig with the same fork mentioned above
Transition Bottlerocket with a shorter shock to give it 5" and a 5 inch fork as well

smaller jump bikes
Banshee Rampant with an argyle 409 or pike 454 dual air lowered
Transition double with same fork
Blk mrkt killswitch with same fork.

All will be single speed and have a fairly light build. trying to keep it between 28-30 pounds. 

So my question to you guys is how much does Geo actually affect the bike? i want something that will be give me some confidence on the big stuff but that i can learn the really lippy BMX style stuff.
a big concern is Chainstay length. these vary from 16.8 (BR, WC) to 16.5 (Rampant, Konig) to 16.3 (Double) to 16 (killswitch). will .8 inches be noticable on the lippy jumps? (main concern)
Also would there be much of a loss of pop going from 4" to 5" of travel? either one will be air and pumped up so i get 0 sag.

I had the older double and loved how much it boosted of jumps. hitting a step up that i can barely clear on my nomad or DH bike i could jump 4-5 feet higher than the landing on the double. but when it came to hitting new big stuff it didn't give me much confidence. it was the older one but i don't think 10mm will help. It was the smaller one though so it felt too short on me.

so, any help would be appreciated. anyone riding these or have a comment on the geo of these and how they would handle the jumps would help out alot. they would have to be the longer size so that would increase the WB too


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

I think anything around 17" or less works great at Ist so any of those options will be rad. 

If I were you, I'd get the Konig. It'll be a little more forgiving on the big stuff but then the only thing holding you back from boosting 8' over the step-up will be you. Oh and put a big fork on it, 36 or bigger. No point in riding a Pike when you can have the forgiving nature of a big fork.

Ist session tomorrow night!


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

Err said:


> I think anything around 17" or less works great at Ist so any of those options will be rad.
> 
> If I were you, I'd get the Konig. It'll be a little more forgiving on the big stuff but then the only thing holding you back from boosting 8' over the step-up will be you. Oh and put a big fork on it, 36 or bigger. No point in riding a Pike when you can have the forgiving nature of a big fork.
> 
> Ist session tomorrow night!


man out of all the people to answer it was you, one of the only people who i could call and talk to about it. plus one of the only guys not on a hardtail that was boosting the big step up the other day.

im talking with a mutual friend right now about getting a konig. well see what happens.

as for the fork i would probably put a lowered float or lyrik on it. probably lowered around 130. i rode JMH's konig for a couple hours the other day and loved it with the fork dropped to 120 and pumped up a bunch. it felt alot more natural to me. i just wished it was a little longer so ill probably get the long version of it.

i have fire shifts mon, wed, and sat so tues thurs i can go. sara had a ton of fun and hit alot of new stuff so she is excited to go back


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

climbingbubba said:


> man out of all the people to answer it was you, one of the only people who i could call and talk to about it. plus one of the only guys not on a hardtail that was boosting the big step up the other day.
> 
> im talking with a mutual friend right now about getting a konig. well see what happens.
> 
> ...


Heh, yeah I figured you were looking for opinions other than mine but couldn't resist.

I'd definitely ride a long myself since wheel base is not much of a concern up there and the extra room in the top tube is nice.

We finished up two more jumps on the table line today, it's riding nice.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

climbingbubba said:


> now, here are what i have narrowed it down to
> 
> larger jump bikes
> Banshee Wildcard in the 5" setting with a Talas or float 36 at 5 inches
> ...


Uhhh, not a good idea. First off, it only has 5.55" of travel anyway. Don't mess with that.
Also, a 5" fork in the front is really too short for the BR...5" fork would almost put it in a XC stance. Ideally a 6" fork is best suited for it. 
If you have to do that to a BR to get what you want, look for another bike.

Why are you dirt jumpers so afraid of 6+" travel bikes?


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## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

rmb_mike said:


> Uhhh, not a good idea. First off, it only has 5.55" of travel anyway. Don't mess with that.
> Also, a 5" fork in the front is really too short for the BR...5" fork would almost put it in a XC stance. Ideally a 6" fork is best suited for it.
> If you have to do that to a BR to get what you want, look for another bike.
> 
> Why are you dirt jumpers so afraid of 6+" travel bikes?


From my understanding, the shorter shock slackens the bike out, and the shorter fork restores the approximate original geometry. And there is nothing wrong with modifying a bike for your purposes. How many people have drilled out their old DHRs to be lower/slacker? Lots. The SC Heckler is a popular candidate for shorter shocks, and I'm going to throw one on my old Orange Patriot to knock it down from a clumsy 7" of travel to a light and fit 5".

I have no idea what your jumps are like, and they sound nice and big. The jumps around here are tight and steep, built by BMXers ages ago, and maintained by both the 20 and 26 crowd. So a dedicated hardtail DJ bike makes a lot of sense. But you are going to have trouble getting the same pop on any jump with a 6" travel bike. Suspension is for soaking up rough terrain, not landing jumps. Six-inch bikes are great for boosting lips on downhill/bike park trails, but not for pure dirt jumps.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

Andrewpalooza said:


> From my understanding, the shorter shock slackens the bike out, and the shorter fork restores the approximate original geometry. And there is nothing wrong with modifying a bike for your purposes. How many people have drilled out their old DHRs to be lower/slacker? Lots. The SC Heckler is a popular candidate for shorter shocks, and I'm going to throw one on my old Orange Patriot to knock it down from a clumsy 7" of travel to a light and fit 5".


Just because those mods will take and maybe work, doesn't mean it's optimal. 
The BR will also accept up to 8" dual crown forks; doesn't mean I'm going to go put one on mine...there's no point. It's not optimal.
Just like shortening the spring on, and putting a 5" fork on a BR isn't optimal. If you want 5" of travel in the front, get a bike with the geometry that works with a 5" fork.
I could go out to my car, and cut the springs to lower it, and guess what, the car will look decent lowered, but the springs will ride like crap. 
I could also go out and buy a Honda Civic, and put some 22" Dubs on it. Sure the Civic may still roll and drive (if the wheels were small enough to fit under the wheel wells), but it's not going to perform optimally.



> I have no idea what your jumps are like, and they sound nice and big. The jumps around here are tight and steep, built by BMXers ages ago, and maintained by both the 20 and 26 crowd. So a dedicated hardtail DJ bike makes a lot of sense.


Here's where I agree with you 100%. Hardtails will pop off a jump better.
However, the OP was asking about FS bikes. Sorry but if I am not willing to go more than 5" for a FS bike for jumping, I would (like you suggest) stick with a HT.
So if the OP is asking about a 5" travel FS bike for dirt jumping, why not just go with a HT?



> But you are going to have trouble getting the same pop on any jump with a 6" travel bike. Suspension is for soaking up rough terrain, not landing jumps. Six-inch bikes are great for boosting lips on downhill/bike park trails, but not for pure dirt jumps.


That's why the rear shock on my BR is just soft enough (i.e. extremely stiff) to withstand the big quick, single hits. It feels like a HT on any rough, rock gardeny type trails. If I wasn't so old and didn't like my knees and ankes as much as I do, I'd have a hardtail for a dirtjumper.


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

I already have a santa cruz nomad and a canfield jedi and would like something cheaper, simpler, and lighter for the jumps. in the late fall and early spring the jumps are pretty much the only thing to ride around here. 

I have owned 3 hardtails and just can't seem to get the hang of them. 

there are new jumps that are more BMX style like i said. there is also another area that is pure bmx jumps that are big and lippy. all of them are pretty big though. 

Maybe ill try my friends hardtail one more time and see.


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

Just throwing this out there and I know nothing of what was involved I just know it looked sick and like a ton of fun to ride. It was a new lowered SX trail, I didnt ask the dude the exact set up but it was more a 4x short travel slopestyle set up.

If anyone knows or has seen, the one I saw was white, and in SLC UT

Kinda random but Ive been eyeing these bikes(full suspension DJ) alot lately and I thought it looked sick and kind of thinking outside the box, to me anyway.


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

ronnyg801 said:


> Just throwing this out there and I know nothing of what was involved I just know it looked sick and like a ton of fun to ride. It was a new lowered SX trail, I didnt ask the dude the exact set up but it was more a 4x short travel slopestyle set up.
> 
> If anyone knows or has seen, the one I saw was white, and in SLC UT
> 
> Kinda random but Ive been eyeing these bikes(full suspension DJ) alot lately and I thought it looked sick and kind of thinking outside the box, to me anyway.


your probably talking about the specialized SX. not sx trail. different bikes. the sx has like 4.2 inches of travel VS the 6.7 or so of the SX trail.

Me and Err are from salt lake city. so you might understand why i would want some suspension for jumping up at I street.


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

yeah ahaha, you are right. I just got curious and went and looked at specialized's site, it is the SX not the SX TRAIL. Dunno whos it was but it was SICK.

TOTALLY, IMO a bike like that would rock at I street and if I had the balls I bet it would go through tanner just fine and the PC dirt jumps would be coo too.


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

The Konig looks sick too. I dunno there are always too many options. haha

I wonder how flexy the killswitch will be? I definitely like the idea of being able to run SS without a tensioner. The Doberman isnt visually appealing to me, the seat tube kink ruins it for me


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

Theres that commencal meta 4x at Go-ride?


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

Ronny - the killswitch looks pretty promising. It was designed by the same guy who designed corsair bikes (pablo) The new hammer link is supposed to make the bike really stiff. i guess we will see. I would like to get whatever im building done by november so i can ride but if not then ill draw it out longer and have it done by feb/march for the new season to start. If this is the case then thats when i would consider the killswitch. 

I might have to keep hittin the DJ's with my DH bike.


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## Raddaddy (Nov 18, 2008)

*don't settle*

wait for the Killswitch, Blackmarket bikes rule. The M.O.B changed hardtails forever. all big company's copied. full suspension dirtjumper/slopestyle frames have come before the killswitch, but they we're learned from not copied. That's why your trying to change other bikes that exist. I own a bottlerocket and love it. The 1st year Fox 36 talas (brown) upfront which is lower than current models works well on it. If you can't find one of the old forks go to the fox talas 15 mm the bike will sit right and b more the geo, your looking for, but at the and of the day you still have a 36-39 pound trail/freeride/slopestyle bike. Do yourself a favor wait for the Killswitch. Wow I should get paid by blackmarket. now your going to have to excuse me I have to go stalk Carter.


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

Raddaddy said:


> wait for the Killswitch, Blackmarket bikes rule. The M.O.B changed hardtails forever. all big company's copied. full suspension dirtjumper/slopestyle frames have come before the killswitch, but they we're learned from not copied. That's why your trying to change other bikes that exist. I own a bottlerocket and love it. The 1st year Fox 36 talas (brown) upfront which is lower than current models works well on it. If you can't find one of the old forks go to the fox talas 15 mm the bike will sit right and b more the geo, your looking for, but at the and of the day you still have a 36-39 pound trail/freeride/slopestyle bike. Do yourself a favor wait for the Killswitch. Wow I should get paid by blackmarket. now your going to have to excuse me I have to go stalk Carter.


The killswitch weighs the same as a Double, rampant, and within a pound of a wildcard and konig. so the weight thing is strictly what you put on the bike. I had a double built up at 30 pounds and whatver bike i build this time will be pretty close to that. i don't feel i need it any lighter for the jumping im doing though.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

Have you thought/heard of the haro porter? I saw it in this months MBA Seems to fit your bill nicely, but Im not sure of your budget...

http://43-bikes.the-up.com/bikes-f32/haro-porter-the-slopestyle-prince-t2863.htm
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=537910


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

yeah it looks interesting for sure. I didn't think you could buy the frame only though. i like to custom build up all of my bikes. 

on a side note Eric porter was at our local DJ's filming with a bunch of other pro riders. we sat at the big step up watching them throw some big stuff.


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## Raddaddy (Nov 18, 2008)

*a*

check out my double for sale on Phoenix craigslist. I'm a fan of Transition but that bike does'nt cut it.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

climbingbubba said:


> yeah it looks interesting for sure. I didn't think you could buy the frame only though. i like to custom build up all of my bikes.
> 
> on a side note Eric porter was at our local DJ's filming with a bunch of other pro riders. we sat at the big step up watching them throw some big stuff.


Oops i didnt see you wanted a frame only, my bad


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

well i decided on an 09 transition double because the konig i was going to buy fell through. The riding will only last a month or month and a half at most so i want something to ride. it has the 4" of travel and its the long so it should feel better than my old double i sold. If it doesn't work out ill have all the parts already.


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

SWEET DUDE! If you can get it built up within the next week or two you should have time to love it, get sick of it, sell it, decide you want another and then, own your 3rd Double this year!! 

HAHA, J/K, congrats man. It's I St time of year.

Did you see the vid on Vitalmtb.com from Saturday's session? Yep that's me in green at 1:29 for about 1/4 of a second landing my sad little no-hander.


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## bikinbeast (Dec 31, 2005)

rmb_mike said:


> Why are you dirt jumpers so afraid of 6+" travel bikes?


Some will never learn :madman:


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## Punkeyboozter (Mar 31, 2009)

To me it sounds like you need a killswitch...The amount of travel does not determine how big ur balls are. If you are under 30 you could probably even go with a HT. Nothing wrong with a PIKE but for some applications it wont work. BMX style lips often have sharp up and sharp down in-outs. nimble bikes work best for those. If you start flying high in the air and are worried about bad landings...or in some cases poorly build landings then more cush might be desired in which case most of the bikes on your list will work just fine.
that leaves you with one problem...finding the one that feels best to you.


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

Punkeyboozter said:


> To me it sounds like you need a killswitch...The amount of travel does not determine how big ur balls are. If you are under 30 you could probably even go with a HT. Nothing wrong with a PIKE but for some applications it wont work. BMX style lips often have sharp up and sharp down in-outs. nimble bikes work best for those. If you start flying high in the air and are worried about bad landings...or in some cases poorly build landings then more cush might be desired in which case most of the bikes on your list will work just fine.
> that leaves you with one problem...finding the one that feels best to you.


ended up getting a 2009 transition double. crazy fun bike. i have a lowered 36 float on the front, running it single speed, and have some other light parts. came in at just around 30 lbs.

too bad i sprained my wrist a week ago. overshoot a 13-15 foot double all the way to flat. the bike sure can pop off the lips of the jumps.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

rmb_mike said:


> Uhhh, not a good idea. First off, it only has 5.55" of travel anyway. Don't mess with that.
> Also, a 5" fork in the front is really too short for the BR...5" fork would almost put it in a XC stance. Ideally a 6" fork is best suited for it.
> If you have to do that to a BR to get what you want, look for another bike.
> 
> Why are you dirt jumpers so afraid of 6+" travel bikes?


i've seen this discussed, and really putting a shorter shock/fork on a BR sounds like about the dumbest idea ever.


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