# Jones H-Bar vs Black Sheep Lone Star



## rapidcarbon (Dec 12, 2007)

Jones H-Bar vs Black Sheep Lone Star. Which should you pick? and why?


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## elrancho66 (May 31, 2007)

*check out groovy*

groovy cycles makes a bar quite like the jones out of cro-mo, check it out,,,,,,,don't have the site handy but google it,,,,,,,,he's out of Ohio


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## j e SS e (Dec 24, 2007)

http://groovycycleworks.com/extras.aspx

Steel bars are freakin sweet. :thumbsup:

I'd spring for a custom bar/stem combo and still come out cheaper than a Jones or BS.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

i don't have one, but i have done some research on it. Luv Handles - $85 + $10 Shipping. http://groovycycleworks.com/


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## timbercomp (Jan 16, 2004)

I would push you toward the Luv Handles as well. Lots of discussion on them @ http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=375035 . I really like mine that I have and have rode Jones and Marys for a long time but would buy Luv's over the others hands down


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

I have H-bars. I have a new set of Luv Handles comming very soon. I could post a comparo after I get a little time on them. I will most likely be selling the H-bars.


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## RockStarRacing (Dec 30, 2006)

i think i have just found my perfect bars in the luv handles..................

i was going to get some flow-wing bars, but these look a lot better IMO...............


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## j e SS e (Dec 24, 2007)

RockStarRacing said:


> i think i have just found my perfect bars in the luv handles..................
> 
> i was going to get some flow-wing bars, but these look a lot better IMO...............


I was wanting to try the FloWings too but I didn't get any of the first run, and who the hell knows when the 2nd run might happen. Last I heard (per the thread on the 9er board) the dude was still looking for a manufacturer to settle on.


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## pooka (Jul 16, 2006)

Yeah Rodys luvhandles seems to intrigue every bar discussion nowadays. I hope you still find some time to braze and paint frames or fight a fire ;-)


I switched from a swept riser to the jones H-bar and that thing is amazingly well designed. 

and a friend of mine got his luv-handles ´bout few weeks ago (coming from a mary bar) and is amazed too. 

Speaking of looks, these two options to me are the only alternative bars that withstand a critical look. And obviously both work great for a growin crowd of riders.

btw we made some comparison pics when the luv handles arrived. I´ll post em later.


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## rapidcarbon (Dec 12, 2007)

thanks guys. But I really want a ti bar and that luv bar is a steel one. Maybe for my next steelie project.


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## 20_bandh (May 19, 2004)

Where can I see pics of the Blacksheep Lone-Star?

I like the Luv Handles, but I want a ti bar, not a steel one. Shame !


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## rapidcarbon (Dec 12, 2007)

Here it is


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## pooka (Jul 16, 2006)

Well,
at least the little sheeps are cute. ;-)


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## 20_bandh (May 19, 2004)

Ouch, they hurt


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

rapidcarbon - I haven't ridden the Lone Star, but I have two sets of Black Sheep bars, a modified Mtn Must. and a flat 17 degree bar. Both bars ride very well and offer great comfort.
I also ride a Jones H Bar. It is much stiffer than the Black Sheep bars and has a different bend. It's just different, not better or worse, just different.

I tend to ride the BS bars when riding rigid and the Jones bars with the Reba.

You can't really go wrong with either as they are both well made and handle nicely.


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## FastFix (Sep 29, 2007)

*Ti Luv Handles*



20_bandh said:


> Where can I see pics of the Blacksheep Lone-Star?
> 
> I like the Luv Handles, but I want a ti bar, not a steel one. Shame !


You should drop him a line. The guy seems accessible and willing to work on custom orders. Also builds with Ti.


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## hombreduro (May 14, 2006)

*Groovy Cycles Luv Handles..*

It's a great handlebar and looks pretty trick on the bike.


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## 20_bandh (May 19, 2004)

the hand sections of your luv handles look shorter than others that I have seen. Did you shorten them?


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## hombreduro (May 14, 2006)

Nope, they are 26" wide. I believe the hand section is 6" wide, the grips that I have are a bit wider than the average plus I threw a red lock ring in just for color, that's probably throwing it off.


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## chumbox (Jan 9, 2008)

hey while were at it, can someone let me know the differences and reasons to buy a steel handlebar? Was considering it but others reckon they are really rough to ride... doesn't make sense to me...


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## [email protected] (Jun 30, 2011)

*What brand are those grips?*



hombreduro said:


> It's a great handlebar and looks pretty trick on the bike.


What brand are those ergonomic grips. I like how the curve on them is gradual; instead of steep.

---------
Uh found em! They are by Vavert.


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## hombreduro (May 14, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> What brand are those ergonomic grips. I like how the curve on them is gradual; instead of steep.
> 
> ---------
> Uh found em! They are by Vavert.


Wow, it's been a while. I almost forgot about these bars. I switched back to regular bars because I ride terrain that is technical at Bootleg Canyon and I needed a stronger stance. The grips were cool though... can't remember what they were, some no name brand I happened upon at my local bike shop. They were cheap so I gave them a try. Worked well, but like I said, went back to regular equipment.


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## [email protected] (Jun 30, 2011)

hombreduro said:


> Wow, it's been a while. I almost forgot about these bars. I switched back to regular bars because I ride terrain that is technical at Bootleg Canyon and I needed a stronger stance. The grips were cool though... can't remember what they were, some no name brand I happened upon at my local bike shop. They were cheap so I gave them a try. Worked well, but like I said, went back to regular equipment.


Do you mean regular grips - as in "non-ergo"round grips on a bar with sweep .... or regular bar such as a flat bar without any sweep?


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## hombreduro (May 14, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Do you mean regular grips - as in "non-ergo"round grips on a bar with sweep .... or regular bar such as a flat bar without any sweep?


Sorry, yes it's just a raceface low rise bar with like a 5 degre sweep and some good old ODI lock on grips. I was recovering from a bike accident were I broke both arms and now I have limited range of motion... so I was trying out different things to enable me to get back on a bike. The sweep bars and ergo grips helped at the time and were very comfortable, but as I got stronger, I started riding technical stuff again and the problem with the sweep is it didn't let me get my arms out front in a really strong position...it kept my hands in- which brought my elbows in. Also the Ergo grips were really cool at first, but on steep technical stuff you gotta really be able to have a good grip, be able to wrap your hand around the grips and push your palm against the grip in the really steep descending stuff. The Ergo's don't allow you to get your palm behind the grip in those situations..they almost make your hands slip off and forward becuase there is nothing to push against. So, I guess it's all about what you are riding or your style. The sweep bars and Ergo's i think are very comfortable for xc and maybe even some trail riding, but if you are riding more technical or downhill stuff, you need to be able to have more control. Hope that helps.


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## [email protected] (Jun 30, 2011)

Yep. it helps. I guess you could tell that I'm a noob. I've been riding a bike since fervor but only now decided to try and get into it deeper. So any info/opinion is good for me; only problem with info though, is the more you find out the more confusing it all seems lol. For example many people say quite the contrary about H type bars, including and especially Jeff Jones himself; that indeed the sweep is good for comfort and good for technical stuff - allegedly enables you to make tight turns easier then a flat bar would. If anyone else is "listening" can someone concur with or counter what hombre is saying. Also look at what kind of riding Mr Jones does - jonesbikes.com/gallery.html

Right now I ride a 12 year old mtb aluminum frame (very good condition), with a flat bar. It seems ok, but i have nothing to compare it to; so I'm trying to see if there's something better out there and i came across the H-bar. I also havnt yet really decided which biker I'm going to be lol mountain or road. Right now I'm mostly riding pavement - commuting or in parks to push my cardio. so I switched the knobby to semi-slick 1.85" tires (biketiresdirect.com/product/michelin-city-tire-26-inch) and the speed on the pavement tripled. I wonder if I could ride trails with those. I think MTB or Cyclocross riding is more suited to the kind of exercise I'm looking for, which is interval training - and it seems that those 2 are naturally interval all the way.


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## hombreduro (May 14, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Yep. it helps. I guess you could tell that I'm a noob. I've been riding a bike since fervor but only now decided to try and get into it deeper. So any info/opinion is good for me; only problem with info though, is the more you find out the more confusing it all seems lol. For example many people say quite the contrary about H type bars, including and especially Jeff Jones himself; that indeed the sweep is good for comfort and good for technical stuff - allegedly enables you to make tight turns easier then a flat bar would. If anyone else is "listening" can someone concur with or counter what hombre is saying. Also look at what kind of riding Mr Jones does - jonesbikes.com/gallery.html
> 
> Right now I ride a 12 year old mtb aluminum frame (very good condition), with a flat bar. It seems ok, but i have nothing to compare it to; so I'm trying to see if there's something better out there and i came across the H-bar. I also havnt yet really decided which biker I'm going to be lol mountain or road. Right now I'm mostly riding pavement - commuting or in parks to push my cardio. so I switched the knobby to semi-slick 1.85" tires (biketiresdirect.com/product/michelin-city-tire-26-inch) and the speed on the pavement tripled. I wonder if I could ride trails with those. I think MTB or Cyclocross riding is more suited to the kind of exercise I'm looking for, which is interval training - and it seems that those 2 are naturally interval all the way.


I know what you are saying about getting more confused with more info. Everybody's got an opinion about everything and some people swear by their mothers grave about such and such. Well, I'm not one of those, I figure it's best to do your homework, try it and find out what works for you. I've invested in trail riding and have been riding seriously for about 8 years now, but still I find myself trying out different things trying to find the best fit for me. These forums are great for finding out about different products, some of the best stuff I have found were from researching on these forums and then trying them out.. even though they aren't the big name brand or the most popular brand. I this case I tried the Luv handles and Ergos and they were great for everything but the gnarly technical stuff...but that's me. And with my arms and limited mobility I may not be the best judge of what is right for anybody else. Good luck with it and welcome to the world of riding!!


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

I've not ridden the Luv handles but I do like swept back / alt bars and ride H-bars most of the time these days. 

I think the main advantage of the 45 degree sweep of the H-bars is that it allows you many hand positions. The angle means you can move your grip back and forward about 5" in total without loosing too much width - great for all-day comfort and a mix of terrain. a lower-sweep bar can't match the fore-aft range of the H-bar.
I found they took some getting used to in the techy stuff - cornering was intuitive but bunny hops and drops took a bit longer, maybe a few weeks of riding regularly and after a few months i was riding better in some situations and equally well (er, that's relative / debatable!  ) in all others. They feel good all-round now, super-comfortable, but perhaps not quite as good as a 700mm+ riser bar on more full-on downhills with a long fork up front (that's just the width advantage imo). Std risers gave me some degree of wrist pain after about 5hrs no matter what I did, the H-bars remain comfortable as long as I can ride for. 

Bear in mind the H-bar is designed to optimise the Jones geometry and work to get the best out of a rigid bike, it's a winner on a rigid fork and I'd not use anything else on a rigid SS. For what he does / his bike design, Jeff has come up with a bar that adds to/ completes the ride.

A bar like the Luv bar or Carnegie's bar may be a better all-rounder if you don't need multiple grip positions and use suspension forks on technical terrain. The sweep is less extreme and some peopel prefer this. 

Having said that, I do see people posting images of H-bars where grips are only installed on the rear section, so it is a personal thing. I'd say it's worth trying the Jones bars if you can, simply as they have the most sweep - try it and work back toward 'normal' risers and stop where it feels best.

edite to add - for the riding you describe arkady, they may be perfect. I ride a cx bike and a road bike and the Jones / H-bar feels right as the forward hand positions let me mimic a road bike 'cruising on the hoods' position, great for covering easy miles. It builds up the same climbing muscles that I use on the road bike too so overall I'm a stronger / more focused strength climber. I'd say they're the best 'all-round' bike bar, 'best mtb bar' is debatable but the H's do offer a wide range of grip options and i like that.


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## [email protected] (Jun 30, 2011)

james-o said:


> ... edite to add - for the riding you describe arkady, they may be perfect. I ride a cx bike and a road bike and the Jones / H-bar feels right as the forward hand positions let me mimic a road bike 'cruising on the hoods' position, great for covering easy miles. It builds up the same climbing muscles that I use on the road bike too so overall I'm a stronger / more focused strength climber. I'd say they're the best 'all-round' bike bar, 'best mtb bar' is debatable but the H's do offer a wide range of grip options and i like that.


Your last paragraph is what I've been imagining, but wast sure. Thanks for that James. I eventually plan to end up with a rigid Ti bike. I'm split between the Black Sheep and Jones (shocker eh?). Some BS MTB frames look like they can be used for some recreational road or CX work. Jones (to me) looks like a straight up MTB machine. But Jeff suggested that my perception (like most people's) may be warped by the idea that a traditional road bike should have a certain traditional look. So I am conflicted still. But that's neither hear nor there - that is a discussion perhaps for a different thread.

I planned to buy a Ti truss fork - Sheep or Jones and install it on my aluminum frame and then transfer it on to a Ti frame when I save enough doe for one. Guys at BS said it is a feasible idea. Jones said that a fork should be built for specific frame in order to maximize performance/comfort; said I could do what I plan but may end up with a bike that is functional but not perfect ("almost but not quite" kinda thing). It rang true to me. The fork itself is around a 1K I think - If I'm going to spend that kinda money on a fork it better be perfect. I decided to wait until I can buy the frame and the fork together.

As far as the Jones H-bar, guess what - I am split yet again - between the loop bar and the cut bar. The loop bar is bigger and has a few more hand positions; primarily the froward most position - looks like I could just lean all the way and rest across the bar, stretching my back and shoulders for a while - something I often wanna do when I ride but cant obviously with my current regular bar; not to mention I could mount all sorts of crap on that front portion of the bar. 
But he Cut-Bar look so cool and sexy; and it's smaller, which may be better for city riding when I weave in and out of NYC traffic, in-between crazy yellow cabs. So I dunno haven't decided yet on that either.

That being said whether the loop or the cut H-bar, as it stands now I will be riding it on a suspension fork until next year probably - do you think it will feel weird?


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

I think you may be underestimating the Jones's potential. I agree with Jeff's comments, having ridden one for a day. There's aspects of it's geometry that make it both a great technical ride, and a great distance bike. It's a paradox. I test rode one to try it and I loved it. It's a bike that has aspects of my cross bike, my singletrack mtb and a bike-packing tourer / gravel-road bike all in one without any obvious compromises. Seeing what Jeff does on his and riding it over some of my local trails says it's a bike that can drop and jump as well as most MTBs, better than any dedicated distance-tour type bike I've experienced. I'm no freerider but it's certainly a confidence-inspiring feel for a light rigid bike.

If I sound like i was impressed, i was and I ordered one a few months later. I've been a rigid ss / H-bar fan for some time so i'm pre-sold on some of the ideas in the bike, yet the Jones geometry is a more wide-ranging bike set-up than i'd imagined (i designed bikes for a living for a while and this bike still made me re-assess a lot of what i'd learned) and it was just what i wanted as a bike-for-all.

I like the h-bar as the cross-piece join is a bit wider than the Loop and Cut bars, ie the 'hoods' position equals my road bike and i like the feel of this bar overall, but that's just my preference. It felt good on 100mm sus forks, better on rigid. I'm not sure if i'd like them on my 120mm, bolted axle, big-tyre 26" hardtail. Perhaps they feel better the more you need to rely on your arms and less on a fork? Try some Titecs fif you can find them, cheapest tester bar. 

I considered a Black Sheep (also a Vertigo - maybe one for another time, with sus forks if i go back to them). They're lovely frames, but Jeff's design thinking won over BS's custom offerings, even though i'm confident with my ideas on geometry - Jeff's ideas are on another level, very 'out of the box' while integrating proven ideas and coming up with a bike way beyond the sum of it's elements. It's a decision that would split riders roughly down the middle; for me the Jones may not be the best MTB around, but it's probably the best 'bike' around. I like to mix things up in my rides and feel like my bike is wide-ranging, capable, isn't too use-specific - the Jones is the best i've come across if that is your 'need'. It does everything very well.

I have frame bags ready-made for mine - for a mixed road, gravel-path and mountain trail tour I've mapped out in the French Alps. I've ridden some of it in sections before and can't think of a better bike to make every mile fun. 

I waffle.. my current fave subject. I hope that helps.Talk to Jeff, talk to James at BS, you'll get a great bike either way. But there is only one bike that rides like a Jones. Buy a steel diamond frame and ti truss fork combo if the Ti is too much in one go?


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## [email protected] (Jun 30, 2011)

james-o said:


> ... I waffle.. my current fave subject. I hope that helps.Talk to Jeff, talk to James at BS, you'll get a great bike either way. But there is only one bike that rides like a Jones. Buy a steel diamond frame and ti truss fork combo if the Ti is too much in one go?


Please, waffle away; it's all interesting. So the bike you praised/own is the Dimond frame or the Space frame?


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

I rode an early-version custom spaceframe. 2007 I think. Tubing layout and a few other details were different from the production geometry now available, but not significantly. The feel of the fork, the low BB and short wheelbase were all there.


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## tims5377 (Oct 20, 2010)

If anyone has any of these bars and is looking to move them PM me. 

On the SS i just picked up the guy put really narrow flat bars on it and it is really shaky on downhills.
I wanna upgrade but I cant justify dropping 120 on bars.


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## RSWMTB (Jun 7, 2011)

Jones bars on both of my 29r "fraternal twins" :thumbsup:


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

I bought Titec H-Bars, and love them... except they are a bit heavy and WAY rigid. No give, whatsoever. I was on not blingy carbon bars, and those had just the right amount of give and vibration damping that is absent from Titec H-Bars.

I love the hand position, tho. If they ever came out with Carbon Titec H-Bars, and they were around $150 or less, weighing around 275 grams or less, I would be all over them like a hot cheese sauce. The alu H-Bars are around 420 grams, IIRC.

Silver H-Bars (homebew EZ-Off and metal polish finish!). Forgive my messy garage.


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## Saddle Up (Jan 30, 2008)

chumbox said:


> hey while were at it, can someone let me know the differences and reasons to buy a steel handlebar? Was considering it but others reckon they are really rough to ride... doesn't make sense to me...


I'm with ya. People buy steel bikes over aluminum for the ride quality, some of those same people even use steel forks, again because of steel's ride quality. It almost seems retrograde to use aluminum handlebars and seatposts on steel bikes.


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## tuvok (Jun 22, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> I bought Titec H-Bars, and love them... except they are a bit heavy and WAY rigid. No give, whatsoever. I was on not blingy carbon bars, and those had just the right amount of give and vibration damping that is absent from Titec H-Bars.
> 
> I love the hand position, tho. If they ever came out with Carbon Titec H-Bars, and they were around $150 or less, weighing around 275 grams or less, I would be all over them like a hot cheese sauce. The alu H-Bars are around 420 grams, IIRC.
> 
> Silver H-Bars (homebew EZ-Off and metal polish finish!). Forgive my messy garage.


One of the drawbacks of the H-Bar seems to be the lack of a good position for shifters. Yours seems to have them, are they easy to use in that position, or awkward as some have suggested?


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