# light wheelset on a budget



## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

I just built up this wheelset from various ebay deals I have come across.
Stans ZTR Alpine rims, Rotaz 32 spoke hubset, DT revolution spokes and nipples.
1300 grams, and $312.
I also got the pair of KCNC rotors and skewers, and ti rotor bolts all from another ebay vendor. Finished them off with an 11-32 XTR cassette. They turned out pretty sweet. Can't wait to try them out! I don't know how long the hubs will last, but they were such a good bargain, I didn't mind being the guinea pig tester.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

Nice looking for sure


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## a2gtinut (May 23, 2007)

whule looking for thses hubs found this SPECIAL: SuperLight Mountain Bike Disc Hubset - Front & Rear - 32/32 - 444 grams - Red
Too cheap to be good quality.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

turbogrover said:


> ... I didn't mind being the guinea pig tester...


There have been other "guinea pigs".



1300g is a nice weight for the $$$ spent. As a limited use wheelset/race day type of affair I reckon you'll be happy, particularly if you spin rather than mash the pedals.

My rear hub started to develop noticeable wear after around 5000km. I've put on another 2000km while waiting for the parts for a new wheelset and its still hanging in there. Another guy destroyed his in 600 miles so YMMV.

The alloy axle is a little flexy on the bigger hits and contact can occur between the hub shell and engagement gear because of this:


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

Nice looking wheels. Very similar to a set I'm building, except I'm using Crest rims and Super Comp spokes and brass nipples. Weight should be around 1,400g, but I suspect they'll be a little stronger overall, despite 28 spokes, since I chose not to go with Revolutions and alloy nipples.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Why 28h? Unless you're really light, when building using lightweight non-eyeleted rims, I reckon 32h is the go. Crests, Alpines, Podium MMX etc have the spoke hole as their weak point. Less spokes = more stress per spoke hole. As you lower the spoke count you need to up the strength of the rim to get the same overall wheel strength and life. cf. 24 spoke XTR rims where the spoke nipple is oversize and plenty of meat is left in the rim around the spoke hole. Take a look at how thick (thin!) the Crest rim is around the nipple seats.

IMHO you'd be better off going 32h and using alu nipples. Weight will be the same but that will produce a stronger (less prone to breakage) and stiffer (less flex) wheel. The extra 4 spokes are really worth it for lightweight non-eyeleted rims.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

f3rg said:


> Nice looking wheels. Very similar to a set I'm building, except I'm using Crest rims and Super Comp spokes and brass nipples. Weight should be around 1,400g, but I suspect they'll be a little stronger overall, despite 28 spokes, since I chose not to go with Revolutions and alloy nipples.


I'm at165 lbs, and a pretty strong rider. This will be my 4th set of wheels built with the revolution spokes/alloy nipples, and the spokes have always held up great.

( you can't tell from the pics, but I hand polished the spokes to get them extra shiny. I love the look of shiny spokes. )


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

turbogrover said:


> ...
> ( you can't tell from the pics, but I hand polished the spokes to get them extra shiny. I love the look of shiny spokes. )


Now that you mention it, those spokes do look sweet. :thumbsup:


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## mobius911 (Oct 25, 2011)

Nice looking wheels. You've motivated me to try building a set! Do you know if these are the newer (as I understand it) Rotaz Revolution hubs? They are supposed to be a different pawl and ratchet design (6 double-tooth pawls with 27 teeth, 54 POE). Nice increase in POE over the old 3-pawl design, and I'm hoping it could improve the durability issues shown above.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

It looks like the hub has been redesigned, but whether it has been made stronger, I can't tell.
It still uses the alloy axle, but the pawl design is certainly different.
New hub:

















Old hub:









My hub with 9 spd titanium cassette.


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## mobius911 (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm drooling! Good luck with it. Give an update after you have some miles on them.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

Got 'em mounted up, but it's raining and 38 degrees outside. These wheels are sooo much lighter than my other Sun/Ringle wheelset. Gonna keep these for race day only, but I'll put some miles on them to see how the rear hub is going to hold up.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

I just built up a replacement wheelset (1245g Tune/A2Z/Podium MMX concoction) because of my hub issues and have had a chance to look at the rear hub now with a little over 7500km on it. I must say it doesn't seem any worse than at 5000km. The pawls are wearing the freehub engagement gear on an angle but if I replaced the freehub with a new one - maybe use the Rotaz updated pawls I could probably get another 5000km out of it.

As a race day only wheelset they will probably last forever. The same hubs are used in the BWW Pure XCR wheels and guys claim they are fine (but they don't say how many km's they've done).

The real beauty about those hubs is they are very light for the price. Nothing comes close. 240s and Tune Kong seem like good alternatives, but I think the 240s might be slightly heavier. The Tune Kong is lighter, but who knows how long one of those will last (I'll let you know  ). Both of those hubs alone are around the same price as what you spent to build a complete set of great wheels!


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

Got mine built today, and total weight for wheels alone is 1,371 (623f, 748r). Veloplugs will add 8g.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

f3rg said:


> Got mine built today, and total weight for wheels alone is 1,371 (623f, 748r). Veloplugs will add 8g.


Cool, let's see pics of 'em.


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## sbd (Sep 23, 2011)

Do you think if I built these with a Stans Arch they could withstand 220 pounds of Clyde? I am a smooth rider. I have an 08 Stumpy Comp 29er and I am still riding the stock wheel set with many many miles and its still straight as an arrow but really heavy. My HT weighs 28.5 pounds!


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

I ride with people in the 265-280 range and they have no issues with their arches.


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## mobius911 (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm in the same weight range and planning to go with Arches and dt Swiss super comps.


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## sbd (Sep 23, 2011)

I have heard similar tales re Arches, I was wondering more about the hubs.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

I took the wheels out for their 1st ride today. Rode for two hours in below-freezing temps. They are noticeably lighter, and accelerate quicker than my other wheelset. The hubs worked fine, but the freewheel sound is very quiet, and that worries me. I won't know how well they hold up for a few more months. I do like how light these wheels are very much, so I hope they last a while.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

Here they are on my bike. I got a 6mi test ride in yesterday, but now the cold rain and wintery mix b.s. is coming down, so more riding will have to wait.

The freehub is pretty quiet, but the sound it _does _make isn't as pleasant as my old Rolf's. I'm sure I'll get use to it. Rims are a b**ch to mount tires to with the Veloplugs in, but it's worth the weight savings.


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## mike29erss (Jun 7, 2011)

turbogrover said:


> Got 'em mounted up, but it's raining and 38 degrees outside. These wheels are sooo much lighter than my other Sun/Ringle wheelset. Gonna keep these for race day only, but I'll put some miles on them to see how the rear hub is going to hold up.


sweet looking bike, what kind is it? whats the weight? is it all carbon? it looks like you have a niner fork i cant tell , its nice:thumbsup:


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## bikerboyj17 (Dec 18, 2007)

turbogrover said:


> I just built up this wheelset from various ebay deals I have come across.
> Stans ZTR Alpine rims, Rotaz 32 spoke hubset, DT revolution spokes and nipples.


OP, what was the weight of your Alpine rims?


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

bikerboyj17 said:


> OP, what was the weight of your Alpine rims?


I didn't weigh the individual components. I knew that the alpine rims were the lightest Stan's I could get. I don't have a scale at home, so I built the wheels and brought them into work to weigh them. I also removed all the stickers from the rims.
They've been working pretty good, btw. I have put in 7, 2hr. rides on these wheels in sometimes sloppy and frozen conditions, and they have been holding up just fine. I am using a Lucky Nino 11-32 ti cassette on them, and it shifts as well as any cassette. It has shift ramps machined into the cogs. I plan to put the training wheelset back on, and take the rear hub apart to check for wear.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

mike29erss said:


> sweet looking bike, what kind is it? whats the weight? is it all carbon? it looks like you have a niner fork i cant tell , its nice:thumbsup:


Thanks, it's been a great bike! Here's a link to the thread when I got the frameset. It wieghs right at 17lbs. Actually it's less than 17 with this wheelset on it.
http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/carbonal-composite-tech-sl-frameset-747755.html


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

Hey, it's time to resurrect this thread again! 
I've put a season on this wheelset, and I couldn't be happier! I've given them a re-truing in late July, but since then, these wheels have been abused and ridden hard with no issues. (Well one issue...the 16t and 18t titanium cogs are worn or bent, and I occasionally get a ghost shift from them when doing a standup climb on a steeper section.)
I've disassembled the hubs to check for wear or damage, and was very happy to see them looking good as new inside. I'd say there is around 1500 off-road only miles on these so far. They still spin, and look, as good as the day I got them. :thumbsup:


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## KarynS (Dec 5, 2009)

I am not familiar with the Rotaz 32 spoke hub. Worth looking into? I need a rear hub.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Awesome setup OP. Really clean looking rig. Good call on the Nokon!


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Hey turbogrover just curious why you ditched the rigid carbon fork? I have a chinesium carbon hardtale on order and I will likely go with a Trigon carbon fork. I love your wheelset and am contemplating building a set but the Alpine rims don't seem to be discounted anywhere. Can I ask what you paid for them on Ebay?


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

I took off the rigid fork, because I found that I was faster with the Fox fork. The bike is still plenty light, though. 
I don't recall the exact price of the rims, but they weren't from a dealer. It was a private seller that bought them for his own wheel build, but then sold them to build up a 29er, so I got them for an awesome price. (about $100)


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

just checking ebay, there aren't too many of these hubsets left. And the price went up a little since I bought them.


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## solitone (Apr 27, 2011)

Besides on eBay, you clan find Rotaz hubs here:
bikehubstore.com

Has anyone used them on 29" wheels? I ask as somebody maintains 29er wheels put more strain on hubs, and so weak hubs might break.

Are these too lightweight for 29ers?

I plan build a wheel set with them, 32 DT rev spokes, and either crest rims (if I want a really lightweight set) or DT xr 400 29.

Any thoughts?


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## solitone (Apr 27, 2011)

turbogrover said:


> It looks like the hub has been redesigned, but whether it has been made stronger, I can't tell.
> It still uses the alloy axle, but the pawl design is certainly different.
> 
> New hub:
> ...


So the difference is the pawls now having two teeth?

On the other hand, that pawls are still on the aluminum hub body--not on the free hub.

I wonder how are my current much more more expensive AmClassic.. On the weak alloy hub body, or on a steel ring on the free hub?


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

solitone said:


> So the difference is the pawls now having two teeth?


No that isn't the only difference. The actual design has been modified. The placement and actuation are different. It also has 54 P.O.E.

How would a 29er wheel cause more stress on the hub? Is it from additional side-load force from a larger diameter wheel? I would think that small amount would be absorbed by the spokes, rims, and tires, before it would translate into more stress on the hub.

Frame flex would cause more wear and damage I would think. If I were a heavier rider, or used these wheels for anything other than XC riding, I would choose stronger wheels.


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## solitone (Apr 27, 2011)

Thanks for your comment.

Regarding 29ers, I'm just betting. I'd imagine larger diameter wheels would put more strain on hub flanges (especially on the rear ones?) because of their higher momentum.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

These wheels and hubs continue to perform perfectly, but I treat them carefully like a lightweight XC wheelset. I can ride hard and fast on them, but I don't take large jumps or dropoffs with them. I have another set of strong wheels that I use for training.

I still don't see the difference a 29er wheel could make on the durability of the rear hub. It depends more, on how the owner uses the hubs, not so much the diameter of the wheels. The difference in the radius from hub center to the rim isn't that much different.
The bigger difference would be between a heavy or light rider. Or an agressive all-mountain rider, vs a XC rider.


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## solitone (Apr 27, 2011)

I was thinking that braking a 29" wheel would result in higher forces between flange and axle. 

But I have no idea whether this is really relevant and might indeed result in broken flanges/axles. I'm just guessing. 

I've read somewhere about this possible issue with 29ers, and I thought they'd require stronger hubs..


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Nice!


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## oleritter (Nov 2, 2013)

I picked up these hubs, now closeout at Bikehubstore. Mine are the newer. I'm wondering how the hubs held up beyond your last update, and how many miles total you got out of them, or are they still going?

And related - did the new design work, and prevent the problems and short life of the older model?







My thought was using these as gravel/road/cyclocross, which I would expect would not put the hub through the same stresses as MTB. Agree??



solitone said:


> So the difference is the pawls now having two teeth?
> 
> On the other hand, that pawls are still on the aluminum hub body--not on the free hub.
> 
> I wonder how are my current much more more expensive AmClassic.. On the weak alloy hub body, or on a steel ring on the free hub?


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## solitone (Apr 27, 2011)

They're still helding up well. Apart from that small issue with the pawl springs that I simply needed to change. I did many miles on them, don't know exactly how many, but many!


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## oleritter (Nov 2, 2013)

:thumbsup:


solitone said:


> They're still helding up well. Apart from that small issue with the pawl springs that I simply needed to change. I did many miles on them, don't know exactly how many, but many!


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## oleritter (Nov 2, 2013)

*feeback from turbogrover, or others?*

I recently acquired and built these hubs, the Rotaz Revolution, the newer design. Are you still running these? Miles? I am wondering if the new design has proven to be a success.

Are you still around, turbogrover?


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