# Stan's Arch EX vs Flow EX for a Clyde



## BlackOut (Mar 28, 2004)

Hi everyone I am getting a new set of wheels built up. I have Chris King ISO disc hubs on order. 15QR and 142x12 rear for my new 2012 Turner Flux :thumbsup:. I am doing mostly straight XC type riding and a rider weight of around 230lbs.

I was thinking of using the Arch EX but wasn't sure of the rider weight limit for the rim. The weight difference is 90g per rim. 400g vs. 490g.

The internal width of the Arch EX is 21mm and the Flow EX is 25.5mm. I am thinking of tire profile and the nice wide footprint the Flow has to offer. I am coming from a set of Mavic XM819 which have served me very well.

Any thoughts on which rim to go with?

My terrain in Ontario isn't too rugged and the bike is a 100mm travel sort.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

Flow is the narrowest rim I'd run these days. I don't see any advantage to the arch, other than trivial weight savings.


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## Bike Whisperer (Aug 7, 2012)

Given the new Stans rims use a bead shape that is designed around fitting tires very tight, if you happen to use Tubeless Ready tires then you might check out the WTB Frequency i23 TCS rims at 23mm wide internally and 475g per rim.


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## BlackOut (Mar 28, 2004)

Yes thanks, the WTB Frequency i23 was actually the second rim on my list after the Flow. Then I found out that the Flow EX was available. Shortly after that It was recommended that I consider the Arch EX.

I have been using UST with my Mavic 819's but will go to TLR setup next.


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## 4nbstd (Apr 12, 2012)

Arch EX's "recommended" max weight is 230 lb, and I think Flow EX's is 250 lb. Since you are on a FS, I think Arch EX would hold you up fine. But if you ride aggressively and stay seated a lot, I would go for Flow EX.


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## BlackOut (Mar 28, 2004)

Yes Clyde category for sure. I am a 230lbs rider weight.

So I might feel more "comfortable" with the Flow EX then. Although I would probably be just "ok" on the Arch EX.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Flow fo' sho'

265# and loving them w/ my CK.


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## Nate3510 (May 21, 2009)

I would go with the Flow EX. I was going through the same dilemma and I ended up with the Flow. The minimal weight saving does not outweigh the peace of mind.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Go with the Flow.


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## tryinghardrider (Oct 7, 2012)

hi all,

i have a similar question, but i didn't want to start a new thread since it's basically on-topic. i hope the moderators do not mind (if they do, i hope they can move my question to a new thread, thank you  ).

i'm at 200+ (205 i think) pounds and riding a hardtail. my wheelset is hope pro 2 evo hubs, dt swiss revo spokes, and ztr crest 26" with 2.4/2.2 UST tires mounted. i ride mostly XC though I've ridden AM country (but not aggressively). so far, the wheelset has held up well.

anyway, i'm looking to get an AM bike soon. I'm thinking of building a wheelset for it, and i was thinking of ArchEX but was wondering if that is too little considering the stuff i mentioned above. FlowEX is an option, but that might be overkill. Any ideas, sirs? thank you.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Your weight aside for a second, The Flow will give you a SLIGHTLY wider profile and be a little stiffer and stronger...


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## blackhammer (Jun 28, 2009)

I just built up a flow ex laced to a CK hub. I've got an Ardent 2.4 on it that I'm running tubeless at around 26 psi. So far it's been really good after 3 rides. I plan on doing a post soon on the build/review of the rim but I want to get some more time on it so I can give a thorough assessment. I will say that I was able to seal the Ardent with a floor pump and it's holding air really well. Hell, so far it's holding air better than my tubed wheel on the rear.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

You could probably get by with the Arches, but the Flows are pretty bulletproof. I've had a set of the original flows for about a year and still haven't been able to get the rear far enough out of true that my LBS will fix it for me (I do check the spokes every few months). If the EX's are stiffer, they must be truly amazing - and I start drooling thinking about that increased width!


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## Tillers_Rule (Sep 11, 2004)

I'm running the Arch EX in 32 hole and I'm only 210 lbs or so. Might just be a creepy build, but I've had to true the rear wheel twice already and I've only had the bike two months. Going back, I would have built up the Flow EX in 36 hole rear, which is what I plan on doing with my next set. There's much to be said about a nice, bullet proof set of wheels, even if they do weigh a little more


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## cautery (Aug 1, 2006)

Either of the rims should fill the XC role just fine. I just built a wheel with the ArchEX, and can tell you that it is much stiffer than the original Arch.

Tillers_Rule.... If you've had to true that rear wheel twice, then it was very likely due to a build issue... If the ArchEX is built properly (radial, lateral and dish brought in to <1mm,0.5mm,0.5mm respectively AND the average tension of 125kgF, the individual spoke tensions are close to the average... no big excursions, AND the wheel is properly stress relieved to make sure there is no spoke wind-up that will cause big tension drops when ridden), then the build is VERY stiff and strong.

Of course, MOST of the strength in a wheel is in the quality of the build.


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## t51rmkiv (Apr 1, 2010)

Just and FYI, the original Arch has an i.d. of 19 mm and the Flow is 21mm. The Arch EX is now 21mm and the Flow Ex is 25+mm. Im sure Notubes is not going to change the rider weight limits of the mentioned rims despite rim width changes. Something else to consider is why we as clydes have to consider a burlier, wider, rim. Variances of flex, tire pressure, riding style, and location, all play a factor in what we should be looking for. Rather then focusing on rim width, consider a high volume, tubless tire, matched to your riding conditions. If your doing smooth XC or mild trail, then a 2-2.5 inch tire would fit the bill. An Arch EX or Standard Flow would make alot of sense here. If most of your riding is light to heavy trail with lots of rocks etc, then wider 2.25 to 2.4 tire on a i23 or Flow Ex would be a better. The combination of a higher volume tire matched to the appropriate wide footprint rim, ran at lower pressures for compliance, ie tubless, will do more for ride comfort, performance, and wheelset integrity than a burly wheelset with 36h count on a OEM or like tire. The point here is that the comprimise we need to start considering is not always shelling out big bucks on a HEAVY-duty clyde specific wheelset. Instead, consider a high volume, often times heavy, tire combination to get the ride quality and performance we dont know we need.


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## BlackOut (Mar 28, 2004)

thanks t51, great points. I was originally leaning to the 'old' Flow but the wheel builder I was working with didn't have access to them, just the newer Flow EX's which are probably wider than what I was thinking but of course even my old Mavic XM819's compared to Stan's Arch's are only 2mm difference which in tire terms is not a lot. I run Schwalbe Nobby Nic's 2.25" UST (running tubeless) tires so I do go for the high volume tires. I never had a problem with my xm819 with this tire combo on the XC trails that I ride in Ontario. 

Having said this I am looking forward to seeing what additional stability a 6.5mm width increase will do for me with the Flow EX's and a new tire, the Continental Trail King 2.2's and I will most likely ride them tubed to start but converted to tubeless soon after. I did consider the Velocity rims as well. Given the wheel build I probably would have been just fine on the Stan's Arch rims.


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## t51rmkiv (Apr 1, 2010)

BlackOut said:


> thanks t51, great points. I was originally leaning to the 'old' Flow but the wheel builder I was working with didn't have access to them, just the newer Flow EX's which are probably wider than what I was thinking but of course even my old Mavic XM819's compared to Stan's Arch's are only 2mm difference which in tire terms is not a lot. I run Schwalbe Nobby Nic's 2.25" UST (running tubeless) tires so I do go for the high volume tires. I never had a problem with my xm819 with this tire combo on the XC trails that I ride in Ontario.
> 
> Having said this I am looking forward to seeing what additional stability a 6.5mm width increase will do for me with the Flow EX's and a new tire, the Continental Trail King 2.2's and I will most likely ride them tubed to start but converted to tubeless soon after. I did consider the Velocity rims as well. Given the wheel build I probably would have been just fine on the Stan's Arch rims.


The N.N. are a great tire with lots of volume. They should work great on the Flow ex. Did you consider running the new N.N. 2.4 upfront with the 2.2.5 in the rear? Just curious as I haven't read anyone trying this combo yet. I was up in the air between them and the new Ground Control tires from Specialized. Ended up with the Ground Control's due to price but am slightly disappointed with the volume of both the 2.1 and 2.3 G.C.'s. Post back up when you get the Wheel set and tire's. I'm curious what your thoughts will be throughout the colder months.


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## Diesel8810 (May 17, 2012)

*Go with the Flow EX's.....*

I am 230 and ride very aggressively.... I do have decent bike skills but I do ride hard... I have Flow Ex's laced to King ISO hubs and have had zero issues with them.. My wheel builder is the owner of my LBS and he laced them 2X for even more stiffness and they have not disappointed me one bit... I just set them up tubeless with meaty Nobby Nic 's front and rear going into the Fall / Winter and the grip has been amazing.. I have had Arch's and didn't have any issues per say butt I could feel the flex significantly more... and I broke the "Rim Seam Pin" loose after around 100 Miles.... The Flow EX's are obviously heavier but durability and stiffness are more important to me.. My $.02


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## manpurse (Feb 6, 2011)

I wonder if this guy is riding on Flows

Martyn Ashton - Road Bike Party - YouTube


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## wyker (Mar 14, 2009)

^ WOW! 

That was some seriously impressive riding!


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## UrgentUnguent (Oct 28, 2007)

Just got a pair of Arch to find they're 20mm through axle front. I'm going to try Stan's adapter. Otherwise I have to tell DW that I need a new fork.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

t51rmkiv said:


> Just and FYI, the original Arch has an i.d. of 19 mm and the Flow is 21mm. The Arch EX is now 21mm and the Flow Ex is 25+mm.


FYI: The original Flow is 22.6mm, not 21mm. Here is the link to the page from Stans with the dimensions for all of their rims:

ZTR Rims


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## 4nbstd (Apr 12, 2012)

rossluzz said:


> I wonder if this guy is riding on Flows
> 
> Martyn Ashton - Road Bike Party - YouTube


Road bikes doing trial stuff makes me want to get a bigger SUV and guns.


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## sir_crackien (Feb 3, 2008)

I would go with the Flows if you are going to stick with stans. Might I suggest the WTB i23's as well? I have been riding them for a bit now and they have been quite nice so far. I ride smooth but definitly am a all mountain rider taking small jumps and drops frequantly and weight in at 260+ lbs lately W/O gear.


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## Winsecure (May 1, 2012)

Have you thought about running an Arch on the front and Flow on the rear? I just ordered parts for a new wheelset build and will be running an Arch EX on the front with a rear (non EX) Flow. I weigh 230 w/ gear.


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## BlackOut (Mar 28, 2004)

The WTB i23 were my option if I was going to stick with UST. I think I might be ready to try TLR setup if I can just manage to mount the tire without a compressor; which I hear that people have been able to do. I really enjoyed switching to UST after using tubes. I never really got pinch flats but of course the 1 time that I did during a race I was cursing that tube that day!


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## Stofken (Nov 5, 2012)

Hi guys, torn between DT 350 on Flow EX and DT 240 on old Flows. The last combo is only $50 more as the old Flows are on sale now.
I'm 215lbs w/o gear, ride XC, no jumps


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm sure the old Flows would be fine for you, but the EX's are wider and reportedly stiffer. I would probably go EX unless the 240 hub is a *lot* better.


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## Stofken (Nov 5, 2012)

For peace of mind (and aesthetics ... the old Flows where white), I ordered the Flow EX at ActionSports; black DT 350 QR, black Flow EX, black DT Comp and black messing nipples.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Stofken said:


> For peace of mind (and aesthetics ... the old Flows where white), I ordered the Flow EX at ActionSports; black DT 350 QR, black Flow EX, black DT Comp and black messing nipples.


VERY nice... Enjoy em.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

I went with the Flows (not EX, just old Flows) for my new wheelset based on my wheelbuilder's recommendation that they are tried and true and have great success running tubeless. I'm glad I did. The wheels are wonderfully stiff and true after two months of hard riding and give me a much better feel of control than my old flexy wheels.


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## Trailhawg (Dec 16, 2012)

This has been a great thread with good info. I just wanted to throw in something I saw today. Came off the trail this evening to find a fella that I passed earlier on the trail at his truck. Bike upside down on the tailgate. He had at least four broken spokes on his rear flow ex rims. Dude weighs in at probably around 260 I would think and I remember him showing me the rims last spring when he got them. So he hasn't had them a year yet but I guess the problem there lies in the build? I was considering some flow ex's but am still loving the PXC 2's I have that came stock on the anthem x1. They don't hold a TLR setup very well but I am now running a Hans Dampf up front with a Racing Ralph in the rear with tubes and loving it! 27 psi up front and about 30 psi in the rear. Turning some of the best times ever since running this setup. So don't really see the need for the flow's just yet. I am 240 lbs riding aggressively (for me anyway) on trails that are fast and flowing. Lotta roots with a few spots in there you can get some decent air and a few decent hill climbs.


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## Stofken (Nov 5, 2012)

*love em!*

Almost 2 years on my Flow EX's now, still at 210 lbs  but working on it 
My config is just super strong! I never ever worry about them when I am decending like a rocket (at least that's what it feels like ) on rocky or rooty terrain. However last September, I must have had a major air burb, didn't hear a thing though, but at the bottom of the hill, I noticed my tire had lost half of it's pressure. Another rim would certainly had suffered major dents.


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## JHH (Jul 4, 2013)

I just got a Flow EX on the rear. Previously rode WTB i23. I like the width of the FLOW, but it feels flexy to me. The wheel build is solid, I'm just not happy with the hoop. It's also HEAVY and my bike feels noticeably sluggish now. I'm about 250 and ride XC/trail. I climb what I descend.


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## Jman0000 (Oct 7, 2011)

Old thread, I know, but gonna chime in anyway. I'm 6' 235# and have been on Arch EX for over a year now with no issues. I'm an aggressive rider and I've had plenty of wheel taco-ing OTB moments too and the Arch EX rims have held up fine. They're really strong. If you're on the edge of the weight limit, then it's probably a preference of wanting the wider rim or not, which is just going to be personal choice. I'm just posting to let anyone that is curious to know what Arch EX rims have held up to in my case.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

Trailhawg said:


> This has been a great thread with good info. I just wanted to throw in something I saw today. Came off the trail this evening to find a fella that I passed earlier on the trail at his truck. Bike upside down on the tailgate. He had at least four broken spokes on his rear flow ex rims. Dude weighs in at probably around 260 I would think and I remember him showing me the rims last spring when he got them. So he hasn't had them a year yet but I guess the problem there lies in the build? I was considering some flow ex's but am still loving the PXC 2's I have that came stock on the anthem x1. They don't hold a TLR setup very well but I am now running a Hans Dampf up front with a Racing Ralph in the rear with tubes and loving it! 27 psi up front and about 30 psi in the rear. Turning some of the best times ever since running this setup. So don't really see the need for the flow's just yet. I am 240 lbs riding aggressively (for me anyway) on trails that are fast and flowing. Lotta roots with a few spots in there you can get some decent air and a few decent hill climbs.


I'm as big as that guy. Mikesee talked me out of Flow EX. They're great rims, but when you're 80 pounds heavier than the intended average rider, well, that's going beyond anticipated design maximums. Dudes of our...significance...should spec rims from the next tougher 'discipline'. My XC/AM bike is a mix of AM/DH parts.

You might be fine on them, but I'd ask a wheel builder who works with Clydes to know for sure.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

it's all about the builder. i'm 250ish and have been beating on a set of Flows laced to DT 350s for close to a year now and have had zero issues. I think a lot of the issues lie with the skill of the wheelbuilder


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## JayCon (Jan 23, 2015)

I rode ZTR Flow's for 1750 miles of the GDMBR last summer (touring, not racing). I am 250-260, nekkid, and carried 30lbs of gear on a Fargo. XT hubs, 36H. Zero issues.


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