# XC vs Down Country vs Santa Cruz Hightower



## LockyA (Apr 9, 2019)

Hey all,

I ride and race XC. I have a 2021 Scalpel which I train and race on. 100mm travel and 10kg of bike.

I bought a 2021 Santa Cruz Hightower thinking I would ride the bigger bike to have fun etc... turns out it doesn't get used much and I prefer to ride a quick bike for long hours and shuttles aren't my think...

Would swapping this bike for a downcountry/trail bike help my cause, being closer to a xc bike so I can pedal all day and have some more comfort (120mm v 100mm)?

Do you think the gap between a low travel Trail Bike and XC bike is not worth it? Will a trail bike be not much different to the Hightower than the XC bike?

Thinking a Tallboy would be a good fit... or does a Tallboy ride more like the Hightower than the Scalpel?

Hope this makes sense... basically think I would use a down country/low travel trail bike more than the 150mm Hightower and would benefit by using it for training etc being a little more heavy but still good to pedal all day.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

Personally... I would rather train on the big travel/heavier bike and only ride the race bike on race day. It will feel amazingly light and fast when you get back on it.


----------



## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

I have a Hightower C and I consider it a medium travel bike. I ride trails and fire roads with my wife and friends, but I ride much steeper downhill singletracks with jumps when I ride by myself. The HT is okay for light XC and better for light DH, but not great for either. The HT is fairly slack which is kinda floppy on the steep climbs. And I find myself sitting right on the nose of my seat on steep climbs. It can suck up a 5ft drop no problem, but it's not a gravity bike. Much lighter than a gravity bike. For me the HT fits both of my riding worlds. My old hardtail XC bike was quicker on fire roads, streets, and easy single tracks, but was harsh and scary on the steep DH stuff I like to ride.


----------



## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

I suspect it's more the geometry and less the amount of travel that gives you a different feel that you don't like. Tallboy will be more similar to the hightower than your XC bike in that regard. Definitely test and not buy blind.


----------



## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

Have you tried riding the Scalpel with 2.4" tires like a DHR with wide rims (30mm) and Deity Supracush grips? I did something similar with my XC bike and it added enough dampening to take the edge off, plus a bonus of additional confidence.


----------



## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

I’ve always ridden an xc bike in the past 30 years. Well, for a while that is all there was. I just moved to a ’21 Epic Evo one year ago. Tons of people say it feels too XC and not trail enough compared to other DC bikes like the Revel Ranger or Transition Spur. Coming from years of xc bikes the Epic Evo felt like a super capable and plush trail bike. I think you might feel the same way if you moved to a DC bike based off of an XC bike, like the Scalpel SE or Oiz TR or the E Evo. They are all slacked out enough to make them less twitchy and bring in some trail ness but not loose too much pedal efficiency or handling in the tighter stuff. Imo they are the logical place to go for an xc rider. The new Scott looks like a killer bike too.


----------



## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

I get exactly what you're saying. I think you would enjoy a more xc/trail bike in the 120/130mm travel range.

I had a Hightower 2 for about 8 months. I demoed that and a TB4 for 2 days each. First, to your question on the TB4. It is pretty burly, like a mini-enduro trail bike. I didn't climb much faster on it, so picked the HT2. These were pretty steep, sustained climbs in the rocky mountains of New Mexico.

The HT2 was pretty heavy (size large) even with relatively high-end components. It did have some obligatory heavier parts that a bike like this demands, such as a Fox 36 and a RS Super Deluxe (w/Meg Neg air can) and Maxxis Minions. Also had a carbon handle bar, XT drive train w/ carbon Next R crank, and a carbon wheelset. Bike came in at 32.5 pounds w/pedals. I ride with guys on XC bikes and they dropped me hard on the climbs. Definitely a "grin and bear it" bike when climbing.

My current trail bike is the '21 (non-evo) Stumpjumper. Even though it's very similar to the HT in terms of geometry (slack/steep seat tube angle/long reach), they couldn't be more different.
It's the best climbing bike (that doesn't have a motor 🤪) I've owned to date. Even better than a Tallboy 2 I had, which was 100mm R 120mm F.
I can hang with my XC friends on this bike.
It's 28.5 pounds (with 2.4 Grid Butcher and 2.4 Grid Purgatory, pedals), and has really quick handling. Not as plush on the descents as the HT, but still plenty capable and fun.

Edit:
As a side note - Once I bought the Levo SL, I never rode the Hightower. The SJ is so much fun (and different) to ride, the riding is split even 50/50.


----------



## LockyA (Apr 9, 2019)

After some research and stock checks it appears I can get my hands on three bikes... Kona Hei Hei Cr/Dl, Yeti SB115 or a Scalpel SE.

The Yeti will obviously be a good mix between the Hightower and my 2022 Scalpel 100mm XC bike... still climb well but be rowdy on the downs.

The Kona looks fast, light, more like my XC Scalpel but more forgiving with the 120mm front and rear.

The Scalpel SE will be very similar to my Scalpel but 20mm more suspension which I think I will pass on. (could get a new shock and fork and just swap out if I wanted that option)

So its basically either a Kona Hei Hei or the SB115.

Hei Hei can back up as a second race bike for long or rough days in the saddle... the Yeti would be a heavier race bike if needed but I guess is a more D/C bike in respect to being more playful and allow me to hit more endurance style trails... I guess I don't really need a second race bike as I can just use the scalpel and handle what ever it needs to instead of having a Hei Hei for purely 20mm more of travel..

Specialized evo is also an option which I have not explored yet......

Opinions on this would be great!


----------



## apxfndr (Sep 21, 2013)

Sorry. No opinion. What did you get?


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

It seems like the op is too busy riding, but I will weigh in with similar feelings coming from the TB2 and then to a HT2. I hated the Hightower, it made a terrible XC type rig. Not so much from a racing aspect, just an every day riding aspect. I had the exact same tuned pike on the tallboy and hightower, so it was about as fair a comparison as you can get. It was just dull, slow to respond, and not what I would want to ride ON MY LOCAL TRAILS.


----------



## response3 (Mar 4, 2007)

LockyA said:


> After some research and stock checks it appears I can get my hands on three bikes... Kona Hei Hei Cr/Dl, Yeti SB115 or a Scalpel SE.
> 
> The Yeti will obviously be a good mix between the Hightower and my 2022 Scalpel 100mm XC bike... still climb well but be rowdy on the downs.
> 
> ...


I own a Transition Spur and a buddy has an Epic Evo. I’ve also demo’d the Yeti SB130 and 115. In my opinion, the Spur and 130 feel like slimmed down enduro/all mtn bikes and are what I’d call the gravity riders version of an XC bike, while the Evo and 115 are derived from actual XC race bikes and retain many of the race bike characteristics but with a slightly softer and more playful feeling.

OP: How did you like the geometry of the TB? Is long, slack and low but still fast pedaling of interest or do you want something with XC geometry but a little more aggressive decender? If the former, the Spur and Revel are great choices, if the latter then I’d look at the Yeti and Evo pretty closely. Pinkbike did a really good downcountry review recently, give it a read.

From what you’ve shared, I’d lean towards the Evo due to its more modern geometry compared to the Yeti, which is a little dated at this point. It’s also a really light bike and great pedaler, with enough travel and slack enough to have fun on most trails comfortably.


----------



## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

What about a new Top Fuel? They're appearing in shops...and might compliment a true XC bike very nicely...w/o getting too burly.


----------



## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

LockyA said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I ride and race XC. I have a 2021 Scalpel which I train and race on. 100mm travel and 10kg of bike.
> 
> ...


A low travel trail bike aka down country if you like that moniker is my personal favorite class of bike. I think it would be a good compliment to a pure XC race bike like your scalpel for a XC racer looking for an every day ride. 1st thing would be you would save your carbon frame and wheels on your race bike from the risk of catastrophic failure if it gets hit just right in a tumble. Saves wear and tear on more expensive ultra light parts and harder to service lefty fork. I would set it up for a more comfortable less aggressive riding position with heavier casing tires favoring traction and durability over rolling resistance and speed. Instead of floppy wheel hard to turn chopper like super slack angles I find the ~65-66 HTA and 76STA with a wheelbase just short of 1200mm on DC bikes like the Tallboy or Ripley/AF is a good compromise between slack/aggressive and XC race nimbleness. It's going to feel faster and more responsive and handle better than a trail bike like the tallboy, but when you step on your XC race bike the race bike it will feel like a rocketship.

XC Race Bike:










Down Country


----------



## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Coming from nimble and quick hardtails, I landed with a HT V1. I had an option to buy a TB at about the same cost, but were I ride is more steep ups and steep downs. Lots of jumps and rocky loose steeps. The HT kind of fit, but is a tweener bike. I added more fork travel and made it more slack (65 deg). This moved it so far away from an XC bike, that it's barely even a trail bike. There are some local XC races that I've recently discovered. Some of my friends do them. I may buy or build another hardtail to do the races. It would be pointless on my Hightower.


----------



## Qanuk (Jan 23, 2006)

OK, so here’s the deal. I’m building a New Revel Rail 29 this summer. The current wheel house has been a SC Carbon Chameleon, w/2.8’s F & R (it’s kinda like a party whip, and hovercraft rolled into one). The other bike; my daily driver — has been a totally boomed out V1 Hightower, w/ a 150 Lyrik. I live, and ride in Central Oregon, with occasional trips to Moab, Post Canyon, Mt Hood area, and CA. 

I had planned on really using the Rail 29 as a park bike, or places like Sandy Ridge. As I’m understanding though — this thing supposedly climbs super well. To the point, that it might very well replace my current Hightower. While the Chameleon, and the way I have it built up currently is in it’s own category… I’m wondering about getting rid of the Hightower and building something like the Ranger, or Spur.

Most of the riding in Bend, probably calls for something more along the lines of an aggresive XC, or what they are now calling “Downcountry”.

Given the bikes mentioned above, I’m curious to hear from those in the know on how I might go about “rebuilding” the current “Barn”. Part of me feels like between a Rail 29, a Chameleon (decked out w/the 27.5+), and then something like the Ranger — I’d be set.

Thoughts?


----------

