# Hammer Perpetuem killing throat



## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

I used perpetuem at 8 hr race last year and couldn't drink my beer at the finish line because my throat was swollen and really sore. I chalked it up to the continuous breathing through mouth in dusty air. 

Just last weekend, did a 16mi XC race (1.5 hr + 30 min warmup) and used perpetuem again. At the end, my throat was sore in the same way though less severe with shorter race.

Looks like I'll need to find another drink. I do like a drink with protein. I've added endurolytes since perpetuem doesn't include full electrolytes. (wonder if that has impact on throat??)


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## gte534j (Jul 31, 2008)

are you allergic to soy?


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm not alergic to soy that I know of. I'm lactose intolerant so I do pick soy over whey.


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## gte534j (Jul 31, 2008)

Hmmmm weird. I would recommend contacting hammer or searching their website. They have excellent customer service.


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

gte534j said:


> Hmmmm weird. I would recommend contacting hammer or searching their website. They have excellent customer service.


That is a really good idea to contact. I've felt like the fuel was good, just the delivery was a little off.


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## m85476585 (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm allergic to soy, but only the protein. Soybean oil and soy lecithin are OK, as is small amounts of hydrolyzed soy protein (whatever that is). But any significant amount of soy in protein form will affect my throat, but also usually gives me stomach pain for a few hours. Sometimes eating soy makes me itchy all over, but I don't break out in hives.

Most of the time nothing I eat has soy protein. I have to be careful with things like cheap processed meats, Chinese and Thai food, and "healthy" bars. Cliff bars, for example, have soy beans in them, but the Z bars for kids don't (they just have soy butter, which is mainly oil as far as I can tell. It sounds much healthier than listing soybean oil on the ingredients).

It doesn't sound like a soy allergy, at least not like I have, but don't rule it out unless you are sure (like if you eat things containing soy protein all the time with no problems).


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## mtbboy2000 (Mar 4, 2008)

Carbo Rocket CR333, I did the Cohutta 100, Pisgah Adventure race ans Slyamos Revenge on this stuff and maybe 300 calories of solid food all day....ZERO GI Issues and it tastes good even when it starts to get warm.....LOVE this stuff.......anyway, my 2 cents...


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## JD1 (Feb 1, 2011)

Not sure what your current nutritional consideration are so I won't hazard a guess, but I mix Perpetum and HEED together to get a better overall mix of carbs and electrolytes for my longer races. I don't concentrate too much on protein until after the race when I'm in recovery mode. It is a good idea, though, to contact Hammer Nutrition. They are several people there that can help you. They're a good bunch of people, in my experience.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

AlliKat said:


> I'm not alergic to soy that I know of. I'm lactose intolerant so I do pick soy over whey.


I would suggest the following:

1) just 'cause you got a sore throat twice and were drinking perp during a race doesn't mean that the perp caused it. More likely race intensity/heavy breathing...

2) while you may like protein in your drink, you don't really need it... so consider this, if you can't take whey protein, do without protein. Soy is the devil (well, right behind HFCS).

The more you read about soy, the more you'll want to make sure you you never consume it (in an unfermented form).


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

My current race schedule, I have an upcoming 8 hour race. For that, I think protein makes sense. Everything I've read says you need protein at the 2 hour mark.

I particularly like a one bottle setup. My entire nutrition (water, carbs, electrolytes etc from my water bottle) because in a race I don't have enough perception of time to remember when to take gel and water and electrolytes. 

For short races, I may go back to water and diluted gel (thick gel slows me down until I wash it down) I'll take endurolytes before race and call it good.


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## crimecrusher (Feb 27, 2009)

I use infinit and after a 24 hour race I got the soar throught you are talking about. I didn't get it in 12 hour. But after talking to other racers at the 24 hour race...this seems to be common with being on a liquid diet drinking as much as we do in a short period of time.


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## jrastories (Aug 2, 2008)

I also ran into this problem last year at an 8 hour race, but I was drinking gatoraid and water, I was also eating solid food. I figured that most of it was due to the eating and drinking as well as breathing heavy since I would breath really heavy though my mouth after eating while on the bike. I also thought about it being due to the acid content in the drink. I am doing another 8 hour next weekend and I will see what is going to happen, I hope some better conditioning will help a little.


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## miss rides a lot (Jul 23, 2008)

I know there isn't whey protein in it, but have you considered the First Endurance line of products? I've ridden on EFS for long rides and gone far longer than I thought possible without solid food or much protein on it. Good stuff, and the Cappuccino Ultragen is amazing


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Keep in mind that a sore/tired throat and/or slight loss of voice is not a terribly uncommon result of pushing your body to the limit, no matter what the nutrition. Even more common among flatlanders like me that occasionally insist on racing at elevations over 8,000 feet!


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## RSW42 (Aug 22, 2006)

kosmo said:


> Keep in mind that a sore/tired throat and/or slight loss of voice is not a terribly uncommon result of pushing your body to the limit, no matter what the nutrition. Even more common among flatlanders like me that occasionally insist on racing at elevations over 8, feet!


Excellent points...

I've had simialr issues after events, but yet when I train with Perp** I'm OK...

Heck, through the course of my work I have to inflect my voice for extended periods and it gives me the same hoarseness, etc. :madman:

** Perp, to me works great, but tastes of nausea...I vae to put a packet of splena (or similar) product in it to make it palletable...just MO.

.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

RSW42 said:


> ** Perp, to me works great, but tastes of nausea...I vae to put a packet of splena (or similar) product in it to make it palletable...just MO.
> 
> .


I use the orange-vanilla Perp, mix in 1/2 scoop of orange Cytomax, tastes like an Orange Julius.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

I tried some of the orange-vanilla and it is almost undrinkable to me so I went with the strawberry-vanilla instead which is a little better but not something I look forward to drinking either.


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## RSW42 (Aug 22, 2006)

mudge said:


> I use the orange-vanilla Perp, mix in 1/2 scoop of orange Cytomax, tastes like an Orange Julius.


Thats what I use too...still tastes like azz without some sweetner.

I'll have to try the orange cytomax trick...good idea! thanks

.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

To me, it's just fuel, not a gourmet drinking experience, so I don't worry too much about the flavor (not a big chocolate fan).

If I'm training I sometimes notice a less than desirable flavor from any of the energy drinks, but at the end of a race, I'd be hard pressed to tell you what flavor I used that day.


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## mrphantuan (Nov 16, 2010)

Keep in mind that a sore/tired throat and/or slight loss of voice is not a terribly uncommon result of pushing your body to the limit, no matter what the nutrition. Even more common among flatlanders like me that occasionally insist on racing at elevations over 8, feet!


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## Rovertd (Feb 22, 2004)

I mix Perpetuem in a concentrated form. I mix it so I get about an hour's worth in 4 ounces in a gel flask. I use a Sharpee to highlight the ounce markings on the flasks. I shoot for an ounce every 15 minutes = 1 flask/hr. This allows me to drink and "rinse" my mouth with plain water as I want. It allows me to control fuel/nutrition and hydration independently. You do need to be sure and chase the Perp. with water.
I also like this method because I can use a blender bottle to mix the Perp. and serve as a reservoir in the cooler. Keeping my water bottles clean (or at least not sticky). If you do a 24 solo with no support little easy organizational things help. Hmmm blender, flask=food! ......uhhhh .. water bottle=water...


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## thumpduster (Nov 19, 2008)

My guess is this has nothing to do with one particular product. What may be making your throat sore could be bacteria, fed in part by the carbs in your drink mix, and enabled to flourish because your immune system isn't operating at its full potential. Add dust and/or bacteria-laden mud splashed on your bottle top and your immune system is stretched pretty thin. Eight hours into a race once your body starts scavenging for protein your immune system is really on the ropes.

I've had similar issues at many long races. For 12/24 hour lap races I'll stop and brush my teeth and maybe use mouth wash. For most of us the extra 2 minutes will not make or break a podium spot. And, it feels _really good _to brush your teeth and get those nasty sports drink/gel sweaters of the teeth.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

I have chugged a bunch of Perpetuum last week during a 12h ride, and my throat was just fine. Good stuff.


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

I called hammer. They suggested I was consuming a little too much. We talked about doing the endurolytes swallowed instead of mixed. The other thing was to go to a concentrated flask and rinse with fresh water. 

I was thinking about trying infinite to see if it sits better for me.


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## OnForm (Feb 11, 2011)

I have the same problem. Add more water to dilute it, and supplement with a spoon of Carbo Pro and a dash of salt. Sounds weird but this works perfectly for me on 50+ mile races. Try in practice before a race though.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

I use molasses( around 3 tablespoons) and lemon juice( healthy squirt) with a pinch of salt. Mixed into the water bottle. The taste isn't too bad. Constantly sip from the CamelBak or another water bottle of plain water. Seems to work fine. Handful of homemade trail mix when I get the hunger. V8 or some other vegetable juice( I like organic sh*t( although I'm not deluding myself into thinking I'm helping the planet or that there are not still some sort of trace chemicals; that's another thread though... )).


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

I ordered Infinite. I'll let y'all know how it does for me.


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## jrastories (Aug 2, 2008)

The sore throat thing does get better, I just did another 8 hour race yesterday and finished much better then I expected, I ate about the same calories as last time but this time no solid foods, only soft stuff (banana's and powergel) and no sore throat this time. My guess is that it is the combination of no solid food getting stuck in the back of my mouth and a little more fitness.


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

I did the Knobby Tires Series 9-5 (8 hour race) yesterday. My Infinite arrived friday so the closest I got to trying it before the race was to drink a glass with dinner. 

First, the final result. My throat was better but still somewhat inflamed. I was able to enjoy food and a good beer last night. I ate some ice cream and things really swelled up. The next morning, tried to eat a doughnut. Wow was that painful! I think the sugar is problematic. But, my warm black coffee soothes it and goes down great.

The whole race I carried a large bottle of Infinite and a small bottle of plain water. Since I only have room for a single water bottle cage, I carry plain water in jersey. On the flat smooth stretches, I would rinse my mouth. In rougher sections I just drank Infinite. I all but finished the Infinite bottle each lap (55-60 min) I think my hydration was just about right. I stopped twice to pee (didn't stop at all last year) I felt very tired but otherwise well at the end of the race. I was able to go eat a hot dog while packing up to leave. I had my daughter, 5 and niece, 4 so tired I had to leave ASAP so no time for beer.

The Infinite performed well. I started the race feeling hungry. By the end of the first lap, my hunger was gone. After 2 laps, my legs felt fatigued. But, that is the length of my training. I did first few laps at 55 min and then very consistent 60 min for next laps and finished with around 50 min last lap. I never was nauseous. My body seemed to perform well relative to my training. The simplicity was great. dump 2 scoops in bottle and go.

Next: Infinite will give a phone consultation with their nutritionist. I'll look for ideas from her. I need to try it but it could work well to make an infinite flask and put it in a holder on my bar or something. I'll drink plain water and take shots of thick Infinite.


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## RSWMTB (Jun 7, 2011)

Good stuff.

Thanks.


.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

AlliKat said:


> I did the Knobby Tires Series 9-5 (8 hour race) yesterday. My Infinite arrived friday so the closest I got to trying it before the race was to drink a glass with dinner.
> 
> First, the final result. My throat was better but still somewhat inflamed. I was able to enjoy food and a good beer last night. I ate some ice cream and things really swelled up. The next morning, tried to eat a doughnut. Wow was that painful! I think the sugar is problematic. But, my warm black coffee soothes it and goes down great.


Okay, so you were riding your bike for 8 hours, taking in liquid nutrition, and got a sore throat. Why would you assume the nutrition, especially the sugar, had anything to do with the sore throat? There are so many other likely culprits, like breathing dry and likely dusty air through your mouth for 8 hours. Sugar is the devil, but there's nothing about sugar that would lead you to having a sore throat.

If you were walking down the sidewalk, drinking a coke, and accidentally stepped out in front of a bus, would you blame your injuries on the sugar?


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## AlliKat (Apr 28, 2006)

mudge said:


> Okay, so you were riding your bike for 8 hours, taking in liquid nutrition, and got a sore throat. Why would you assume the nutrition, especially the sugar, had anything to do with the sore throat? There are so many other likely culprits, like breathing dry and likely dusty air through your mouth for 8 hours. Sugar is the devil, but there's nothing about sugar that would lead you to having a sore throat.
> 
> If you were walking down the sidewalk, drinking a coke, and accidentally stepped out in front of a bus, would you blame your injuries on the sugar?


I'm not blaming the sugars/carbs in Infinite. However, when I consume sugar the day after, it burns the crap out of my mouth/throat. Breads are somewhat bad. Greasy foods go down great.

All the causes you mentioned may be the culprit. I have done 8 hour rec rides drinking only water (except breaks with food) and never had a sore throat.


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