# HTs: Commencal vs. Specialized



## tangel (Mar 1, 2016)

Yup nother noob lookin for bike advice. Been about 15 years since I've ridden, back then was a typical box store mountain bike before upgrading to a YZ125. Long story short, am looking for a Large frame AM hardtail in the $1.5k range. My LBS leans Specialized and I do like the way their Rockhopper Expert 29 rides, but the Commencal Meta Rockshox 650b really has my interest as well. Somewhat different bikes, 100mm fork on 29s vs 160mm with the 650s. Rest of the package seems comparable based on my research. LBS can't give me much of a break on the Rockhopper, so cost wise they are about a wash. What say you guys?

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/trail/rockhopper-expert-29/106299

COMMENCAL 2016 | META HT AM ESSENTIAL 650B ROCKSHOX YELLOW 2016


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

1: those aren't even slightly similar bikes. If you like the way the spec rides, you may not like the way the Commencal rides because it will be very different; and if you're in the US you probably aren't going to test ride a Commencal. The Spec will ride more like a bike from 15 years ago. 
2: The Commencal has at least 10x better fork, not because of the travel but RockShox vs Suntour. The Commencal comes with a dropper post; which will raise the price of the Spec by a couple hundred once you realize you want/need one. The rest of the components on the Commencal are similar or slightly "better" (at least they cost more retail).


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## Rival (Feb 23, 2012)

tangel said:


> Yup nother noob lookin for bike advice. Been about 15 years since I've ridden, back then was a typical box store mountain bike before upgrading to a YZ125. Long story short, am looking for a Large frame AM hardtail in the $1.5k range. My LBS leans Specialized and I do like the way their Rockhopper Expert 29 rides, but the Commencal Meta Rockshox 650b really has my interest as well. Somewhat different bikes, 100mm fork on 29s vs 160mm with the 650s. Rest of the package seems comparable based on my research. LBS can't give me much of a break on the Rockhopper, so cost wise they are about a wash. What say you guys?
> 
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/trail/rockhopper-expert-29/106299
> 
> COMMENCAL 2016 | META HT AM ESSENTIAL 650B ROCKSHOX YELLOW 2016


I just wanted to chime in here. I recently purchased a Commencal bike and my experience was great. I bought the Meta AM V4 purple edition in case you cared. The bike was shipped RIGHT away, I got a phone call before they were shipping it thanking me for my decision to buy the bike and that the dude was getting it ready for shipment.

If you feel comfortable with allen wrenches and putting about 15% of the bike together, the commencal was a breeze to put together and set sag. My budget was roughly 3k, I wasn't loyal to any brand and wanted great components and a frame that would last a long while.

I got everything I wanted out of my purchase. Get what YOU want man. If you like the looks of the commencal, you cant go wrong.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

I think a big point to take away, they are different bikes. The rockhopper is more XC/Trail, but the Commencal is full blown trail/AM. It will excel on rocks and roots pointing down a hill, but you won't enjoy it as much if you're having to do a lot of technical climbs in the XC trail category. The rockhopper will be nice on XC trails and flat land, but you could end up feeling seriously underwhelmed if you like jumping off 2' rock ledges.

So the question really becomes, what are you planning on riding?

Things to compare:
Handlebar width: wider is better, but too wide and you're smacking trees. If you riding in and around a lot of trees, wider is not better

Rim width, wider is better. More traction and better feel, but with a light weight hit. If you like the slipping and sliding feel, narrow is fine. If you want you're tires firmly planted, go wide (specialized 26mm internal rim width is OK)

Tire size: 29er is awesome from a point and shoot aspect. 650 is good if you're shorter or have a lot of twisty trails.

Also, if you haven't checked them out, look at Giant. They have some decent 100mm travel bikes in the $1k range that will be similar to the rockhopper, but with slightly better parts for the $. 
Talon 27.5 2 (2016) | Giant Bicycles | United States


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## tangel (Mar 1, 2016)

Joules said:


> 1: those aren't even slightly similar bikes.


 Noob status confirmed... Thanks for the replies guys. My goal is to find a strong bike that I won't outpace by next year as my skills improve. My bro lives right by Pisgah, and want something that won't have me looking for a new bike on the rougher stuff. Good tips on things to look for, I'll check out the Giant.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

For riding that area I'd seriously look at 27.5+ not 27.5. 
The Norco Torrent 7.2 will keep you going for several years, especially for the future with many new Plus tires coming.
See if you can demo a Fuse.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

It's imposable to say without actually riding the bikes but I do like Commencal. They just seem to know how to make a bike fun. I have a Commencal hardtail and a full-sus and love them both. 

The value is also very good. Being a smaller company, Commencal found that the bigger brands were hogging all the shop space so a few years ago they decided to sell direct. The buyer gets a better spec bike for their money and I understand it's working well. I bought my Meta direct from Commencal and it worked fine. The bike arrived very quickly and the couple of niggles I've had have been dealt with fairly well by their tech support. I'd certainly buy a bike from them again. 

Looking at those two bikes you linked to, I would expect the Spesh to be faster on the road or fairly smooth trails. The Comm should feel much more confident when it gets rough, especially going down hill. If you want a bike for 'proper' mountain biking, get one like the Comm.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> If you want a bike for 'proper' mountain biking, get one like the Comm.


I tip my top hat to you sir. You make mountain biking almost seem like a respectable activity.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

watts888 said:


> You make mountain biking almost seem like a respectable activity.


It isn't? :0.


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## Doublebase (Aug 29, 2015)

I bought a rockhopper 29er last spring...hated it...sold it in September. Now I did buy the "sport" model, which is spec'd lower, but still I was shocked at how low end the bike was overall. I would have been better off buying a Walmart bike for what I payed for the Rockhopper. The shock is junk and when I say junk, I mean total junk. It's like a pogo stick. And the drive trane flexes so much that it's embarrassing...I was dropping chains so much that the store shortened my chain and put a chain stay on it.

I ended up going all in and purchased a Santa Cruz 5010 carbon...things are different now.


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## jpgolf14 (Jan 25, 2015)

If you want a bike you aren't going to outgrow quickly and plan to ride Pisgah, I would pick the Commencal or any other of the aggressive hard tails. I love my Commencal Meta HT.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Doublebase said:


> I bought a rockhopper 29er last spring...hated it...sold it in September. Now I did buy the "sport" model, which is spec'd lower, but still I was shocked at how low end the bike was overall.


Years ago the Rockhopper name meant something, you knew you were getting a good quality bike, but I've been shocked by the way Specialized have dropped the spec on their bikes. A lot of people still seem to thing that the Specialized name guarantees quality but not any more it doesn't.

Incidentally, if you decided to go for the commencal, they are small for their sizes. Both of the bikes I have feel smaller than you would expect for the size so I'd recommend getting a size up and fitting a shorter stem.


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## jpgolf14 (Jan 25, 2015)

Mr Pig said:


> Incidentally, if you decided to go for the commencal, they are small for their sizes. Both of the bikes I have feel smaller than you would expect for the size so I'd recommend getting a size up and fitting a shorter stem.


Agreed, my large Commencal feels about the same as my medium Niner and medium Cannondale. But then again, all of the Specialized I have ridden have be larges as well. I have not ridden a Specialized from the last few years though.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

jpgolf14 said:


> But then again, all of the Specialized I have ridden have be larges as well. I have not ridden a Specialized from the last few years though.


I would say the Specialized bike I have, which is a good age now, is maybe on the long side for its size.

In hindsight I wish I'd bought the Meta in the next size up. It's fine for techy climbs and descents, for playing on basically, but it's a chore over any distance. And that's with a layback seatpost added. I do have a pretty short stem on it but I like the way the stem feels. A longer bike would've let me run the short stem without being quite so cramped.


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## tangel (Mar 1, 2016)

Thanks again fellas, I pulled the trigger on the Commencal last Thurs and Fedex says should get to me this coming Thursday. I'm 5ft11 right between a M and L frame, so went with a L Commencal since a few folks have said they run small. Definitely happy with the decision, even more so given these latest comments. Lookin forward to hittin the trails again.


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## Doublebase (Aug 29, 2015)

Mr Pig said:


> Years ago the Rockhopper name meant something, you knew you were getting a good quality bike, but I've been shocked by the way Specialized have dropped the spec on their bikes. A lot of people still seem to thing that the Specialized name guarantees quality but not any more it doesn't.
> 
> Incidentally, if you decided to go for the commencal, they are small for their sizes. Both of the bikes I have feel smaller than you would expect for the size so I'd recommend getting a size up and fitting a shorter stem.


Yeah I paid for the name thinking I was getting quality, big mistake.

The Commnecal looks like a nice hard tail...wish I had heard of it when I was looking.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Doublebase said:


> Yeah I paid for the name thinking I was getting quality, big mistake.
> 
> The Commnecal looks like a nice hard tail...wish I had heard of it when I was looking.


The big names dominate the shops and mags, they make it hard. I had heard of Commencal but they sold out of small shops in the back of nowhere. Seemed a risky proposition.

Then I picked up a used Commencal hardtail locally with the intention of fixing it up to sell. When I tried it I just loved the way it felt so built up a bike on the frame. Still love the way that frame rides.


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## jpgolf14 (Jan 25, 2015)

tangel said:


> Thanks again fellas, I pulled the trigger on the Commencal last Thurs and Fedex says should get to me this coming Thursday. I'm 5ft11 right between a M and L frame, so went with a L Commencal since a few folks have said they run small. Definitely happy with the decision, even more so given these latest comments. Lookin forward to hittin the trails again.


The large will be perfect.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

I think you made the right choice. For hard riding that Rockhopper was not the tool. 

Climbing on the Commencal won't be much fun, and there s plenty of climbing in Psgah, but you will get used to that and you will enjoy the downhills.

This makes two Specialized hard tails I looked up in two days where my first thought was "Where's the value?". I don't see anything of value on a bike for over a grand. If they are looking for a slgan, how about "Brand over Bike."


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

cjsb said:


> Climbing on the Commencal won't be much fun..


Well, I think he might be surprised. Bikes are a lot more capable than they used to be. I have a Meta full-sus which I was expecting to be a poor climber but it's fine. Maybe not as quick as a hardtail but not too far away and certainly not a disaster.

Bikes in general are getting more and more expensive these days. Specialized are clearly lowering the spec to keep bikes at a specific price point. Like you say though, other manufacturers seem to be adopting...who knows what, to keep the spec a bit higher. Commencal's direct sales being one example.

For whatever reason, Specialized have largely lost any competitive edge they used to have. They're just an also-ran manufacturer now and are getting outgunned often.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> Well, I think he might be surprised. Bikes are a lot more capable than they used to be. I have a Meta full-sus which I was expecting to be a poor climber but it's fine. Maybe not as quick as a hardtail but not too far away and certainly not a disaster.
> 
> Bikes in general are getting more and more expensive these days. Specialized are clearly lowering the spec to keep bikes at a specific price point. Like you say though, other manufacturers seem to be adopting...who knows what, to keep the spec a bit higher. Commencal's direct sales being one example.
> 
> For whatever reason, Specialized have largely lost any competitive edge they used to have. They're just an also-ran manufacturer now and are getting outgunned often.


Yeah, it's going to get tougher for the local distributor model to survive, at least for stores that are a bit challenged already in how they are run/managed.

Back in the day, Specialized caused quite a stir amongst their distributors when they started selling at bigger retailers. I don't remember if it was SAM's or Costco. In one sense they were ahead of the curve. But nowadays the big three are committed to their distributors, which is fine, nothing wrong with that, but the direct model is going to add more pressure, it's just going to keep growing. Probably won't grow as quickly as online retailers for components, but when mid-level company goes to Bike Direct model or online retailers with prices lower than what they used to target for an LBS, then that will be the end of the LBS model. Shops that will make it will be managed with skill and they will be in communities where cycling is much more popular and growing, e.g, in the states it would be places like SoCal and Denver, just as examples.

All that said, I think a trek and Giant of similar model is better equipped than the Rockhoppers. "The end" isn't near...


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Putting the Rockhopper name on cheap, poorly speced bikes smacks of desperation to me and does not bode well for the direction Specialized is going.


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