# Manitou suspension fork elastomers???



## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

I own four early-to-mid 1990s bikes with Manitou suspension forks (2, 3, 4 and Comp). I have been keeping them rolling with a collection of extra MCU elastomers I rounded up around 2000 when I realized there were going to be problems getting replacement parts. I have now run out of replacement elastomers and have even used aluminum spacers to substitute for some of the elastomer stack. Any ideas on a source of new elastomers? Elastomers are still very heavily used in industrial applications and I have even located a company that used to make them for mountain bike applications (http://www.kryptane.com/springs.htm). However, I haven't been able to find a vintage bike parts supplier that stocks them.


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## eccentricbottombracket (Nov 13, 2006)

*Order the elastomers from an industrial supplier*

Call the manufacturer and tell them you want to know who the local distributor is. They will give you a contact number. You may have to say you are calling from a company, in order to keep them interested.


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## deluxe (Aug 16, 2004)

*Elastomers*

The forks are on ebay all the time and they sell pretty cheaply.
Send the seller an email asking them to pull the elastomer stacks (an easy 30 second job on a Manitou) and tell you their condition.

I believe there was also a spring conversion ????


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Yeah, there were springs too. I have a set in my EFC. I keep looking for more but they don't seem to come up often.


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## SLIMBOY (Oct 16, 2005)

speed springs , no damping though


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

The speed springs work well, but they do not replace the top out and bottom out bumpers (which are a different size than the other elastomers). I could try to put together an order through our company (my boss is cool about such things) if there is enough interest. I've got a Manitou 3 I am trying to get going. I managed to fabricate either the top out or bottom out bumpers (can't remember which right now) but the bumpers are too big in OD to work for the other set.

Outside!


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

They work well in the EFC because of the little damper in it.


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## deluxe (Aug 16, 2004)

Well, if you get a bunch made, I am sure they'd sell easily and frequently on ebay or mtbr.


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## Staggerwing (May 10, 2007)

Does anyone have an assembly drawing of a "Manitou 2" shock? 

Also, if someone has a photo of the elastomer bits that go in one of these early Manitou shocks, preferably with a ruler/scale for reference, I would be very grateful.? 

I'm an engineer by training, and a tinkerer by nature, with some experience with machining and laboratory molding of various silicone and urethane elastomer compounds. It might not be that difficult to make something up. It would also be helpful to get a sense of how "hard" these elastomer bushings are. Generally this property is measured on a Shore scale. The "D" scale is pretty hard, while the "A" scale would cover things like rubber bumpers, skateboard truck bushings, and skateboard/rollerblade wheels (75-95 ShoreA). 

Polyurethane rods, tubes and cylinders are also available from McMaster-Carr industrial supply in hardnesses from 40A to 75D and diameters from 1/4-3". If I knew where to start, with respect to length, diameter and hardness, it might be possible to put some of these old units back in action.


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

Staggerwing said:


> Polyurethane rods, tubes and cylinders are also available from McMaster-Carr industrial supply in hardnesses from 40A to 75D and diameters from 1/4-3". If I knew where to start, with respect to length, diameter and hardness, it might be possible to put some of these old units back in action.


I used McMaster Carr PN 87235K111 "Black Polyurethane Tubing 1" Od, 3/8" Id, 6" Length, 40A Durometer (Same as 87235K11)" to replace the bottom out bumpers for a Manitou 3. They work fine for that, but they will not work for the top out bumpers becuase the OD is too big to fit inside the stanchions. I was unable to find anything on McMaster Carr that was the right size to replace the elastomers that act as the actual suspension springs. I don't have any data on the Manitou 2. Even the data I have (at home) on the sizes of the Manitou 3 elastomers is +/- 0.050" or more due to the difficulty of accurately measuring partially decomposed elastomers.


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## Staggerwing (May 10, 2007)

Outside:

Thanks for the starting point. The durometer info is especially welcome. Have you ever seen or handled any original elastomer bumpers? Did the 40A tubing seem close?

Since I have access to metal lathe, I can simply order up some smaller diameter rod stock, and bore a hole down the center, for the top bits. If I come up with something that works, I will post back.


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

Staggerwing said:


> The durometer info is especially welcome. Have you ever seen or handled any original elastomer bumpers? Did the 40A tubing seem close?
> 
> Since I have access to metal lathe, I can simply order up some smaller diameter rod stock, and bore a hole down the center, for the top bits. If I come up with something that works, I will post back.


The last time I rebuilt the fork when the original elastomers were still goodt was back in 1996. Unfortunately at that time I rebuilt both mine and my wife's forks using white lithium grease (which apparently is a bad thing). When I pulled the forks apart last year after a few years hanging in the rafters in the garage some of the elastomers had melted and the others had turned into some sort of clay like substance. The 40A tubing seemed to feel perfect for the bottom out bumpers and I replaced the other elastomers with the Speed Springs. I still need to figure out a way to reduce the OD of the 40A tubing for the top out bumpers for my wife's forks. I have a lathe, but I just haven't gotten around to trying it yet. The shop is in a bit of flux right now. I assume I would just need to grind a really sharp cutting tool to cut the urethane.

Back in the day, there was some advertising to the effect that the Manitou bumpers were "microcellular elastomer". Is that the same thing as urethane, or did they do something special to it?

Staggerwing as in Beech Staggerwing? A yellow one flew over my house about a year ago.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

There were two kinds of elastomers. The first was plain-jane elastomers, then I think in 1995 the Judy came out and was the first or one of the first to use micro-cellular elastomers, or MCU's, which had little nitrgoen bubbles in them, which reduced weight, and made them less temperature-sensitive. They also were supposed to have better damping qualities.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

Good stuff here guys. 
I'd love to get a Manitou 3 for my old Karakoram. Anyway, I have a Manitou 3 manual I can scan/copy/fax if anybody needs it.

I also have some unused Manitou elastomers in my tool box. I'm not sure if they are from the old Manitou 3 or are from a FS Ti fork. I can take some pics / measurements if you'd like.


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## SLIMBOY (Oct 16, 2005)

i have sourced some replacement elastomers and have been using/selling them for a while now (as in pic)

if you guys can wait till tomorrow i can get you the original type measurements 

not sure of the originals durometer hardness , but the ones i get are equivalent to the yellow (in feel) and are 60shore hardness


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## SLIMBOY (Oct 16, 2005)

forgot to mention , the hole in the centre is larger then the originals , but they do work , and these are for the manitou 3/4

the mani 1/2 were larger in external diameter , but the centre hole was the same as these (5mm)

so they will fit in both , been using them in mani 1/2/3 and 4 for about a year


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

*I have several new sets.*

http://geckocycles.com/some_old_stuff.htm 
For larger pictures.
I also have a couple of crown assemblies 1.25" and 1.125" and 1" steerers


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

If you can send me some sets of the elastomers, please PM me.


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## plowak (May 14, 2007)

*Manitou 2 elastomers*

Tested the Cane Creek Thudbuster elastomers for fit on a M2 bolt and they fit for I.D. and O.D. Three of these for each leg would do the job, the extra soft would be about right for a heavier rider. Since I did not test under compression don't know if they rub the sliders under compression, they are of a larger diameter than origionals.Tamer and others make replacement elastomers for their seat posts, another place to look - haven't tested any for fit.:idea


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## Zanetti (Sep 18, 2005)

outside! said:


> Back in the day, there was some advertising to the effect that the Manitou bumpers were "microcellular elastomer". Is that the same thing as urethane, or did they do something special to it?


There's solid urethane and Micro-Cellular Urethane with nitrogen bubbles manufactured in to them.

The MCUs (foam urethane) first appeared in the Tange Struts/Anti-Gravity forks in late 1993.


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## plowak (May 14, 2007)

*Source for Manitou springs*

This guy can supply M2, 3, 4 & EFC springs (not elastomers): http://wings-suspension.de/springs_e.html. He'll let you know up front that it'll take 4-6 wks for delivery. I've bought three or four sets from him in the past and they do eventually get here.


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## Joe Steel (Dec 30, 2003)

plowak said:


> This guy can supply M2, 3, 4 & EFC springs (not elastomers): http://wings-suspension.de/springs_e.html. He'll let you know up front that it'll take 4-6 wks for delivery. I've bought three or four sets from him in the past and they do eventually get here.


I tried for weeks to get something going with this guy and never had success. I probably have four sets of MI/MII's lying around here waiting for a viable option.

Slimboy -- did you ever make that elastomer order?


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## SLIMBOY (Oct 16, 2005)

joe steel = Slimboy -- did you ever make that elastomer order?

will ba ordering more any time now , will mail you when they get here


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## Staggerwing (May 10, 2007)

outside! said:


> Back in the day, there was some advertising to the effect that the Manitou bumpers were "microcellular elastomer". Is that the same thing as urethane, or did they do something special to it?
> 
> Staggerwing as in Beech Staggerwing? A yellow one flew over my house about a year ago.


Microcellular just means there are bubbles in the elastomer. Sometimes, if we didn't properly de-air our 2-part silicone mixes, we would end up with bubbles. Makes for a softer, more compliant part. Since a lot of the off the shelf 2-part urethane mixes only go down to 50 Shore A, it would be an easy way to make something softer, and do it with less urethane to boot. The trick is finding a way to reliably incorporate a certain quantity of air, with a uniform bubble size. Of course, calling it microcelluar makes it sound all sexy and high tech.

Yes, you have the Staggerwing reference correct. I don't own one, but I've seen more than a few up close, and it is perhaps the most beautiful of the production, classic aircraft.

Thanks to all of the other that have contributed to this thread. Based on the photo on the wings suspension site, if looks like 1" OD x 4" L compression springs might be a place to start. There are many such animals in the McMaster catalog. Just as a WAG, I would thing something in the 100lb/in stiffness range might be close. Might have to order up some bits and start playing.


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## Staggerwing (May 10, 2007)

SLIMBOY said:


> speed springs , no damping though


Any chance you can measure the length and diameter of the springs in that pack.

There is a strong chance they are just reselling industrial die springs. There is a Raymond color code for these things and blue corresponds to "medium load."


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## benhobe (May 16, 2007)

plowak said:


> Tested the Cane Creek Thudbuster elastomers for fit on a M2 bolt and they fit for I.D. and O.D. Three of these for each leg would do the job, the extra soft would be about right for a heavier rider. Since I did not test under compression don't know if they rub the sliders under compression, they are of a larger diameter than origionals.Tamer and others make replacement elastomers for their seat posts, another place to look - haven't tested any for fit.:idea


Plowak,

Would you please measure the OD of the Thudbuster elastomer and report back? I have an old RST shock that has mushy blobs that used to be elastomers. The thudbusters look like they might be a perfect replacement.

BTW - I found this thread searching Google - this looks like a great site, so I joined today.

Thanks,

Ben


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## plowak (May 14, 2007)

*Thud Buster elastomers*

These elastomers measure 1" in diameter with a 5mm hole and are 1 1/4" long. The extra soft, the only one I have, feel about as soft as the Manitou 3/4 red elastomers but being wider
are probably best suited for a heavier person.


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## KYSCruz (Oct 18, 2007)

Do you still have the elastomer ride kits? I need Answer Products part # 85-3504 for a Manitou Three. I also need one of the bottom rubber 3/4 x 1 part # 040613.


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

I am holding on to them until I here from a friend who I sold a fork too. Sorry


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## ff1401 (Nov 12, 2007)

Manitou 2 Elastomer Measurements
1.5 inch Length- Each shock comes standard with two of them or you can use one 3 inch size for each shock (the 3 inch size was sold in an adjustment kit from Manitou)
0.75 inch Length - you need one for each shock
outside diameter = 3/4 inch
inside diameter = 7/32 inch

I bought the Manitou 2 shocks in 1990 (estimated). The elastomers lasted about 14 years before melting. I installed another set of elastomers in 2004 that were purchased in 1990 but they only lasted about 3 years before melting. I suggest trying McMaster-Carr for new elastomers as it seems that the old ones have degraded.


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## Retrocowboy (May 16, 2006)

*Manitou 3's*

I just rehabed my Manitou 3's by gutting an old Rock Shok Quadra 21 and a RS "metro" city bike fork I got from LBS trash. I used the good MCU elastomers from the Quadra in 1 leg, and the coil spring from the RS Metro in the other. Works pretty good! :thumbsup:


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## norcalruckus (May 18, 2005)

*skateboard bushings?*

I went to the skate shop and bought some truck bushings. They fit inside of my old judy. I do not know if they will fit your fork, but for the price, it is worth it.


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## dlstyley (Feb 13, 2008)

*this worked for Mach 5*

Thanks for the McMaster-Carr tip. This part number worked perfectly - 8784K245. (5/8" diameter - 40A durometer).

The only trick was cutting it. I had a friend cut it with a power miter saw (radial saw). Cutting with a knife doesn't work because the elastomer deforms and results in a non-square cut.

I haven't used it on the trail yet, but it feels great riding on the street. I cut the pieces 15/16" and in hindsight, a full 1" would have been better. Also, it feels like these may be just a tad soft. I bought the 60A rod as well. If its not stiff enough, I may add a few of those.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the info. This worked great!


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## lcd550 (Mar 15, 2007)

*Manitou Replacement Springs on eBay*

Just saw and purchased a set of springs for my Manitou 4:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZthings4saleonline

I have an old hardtail ('95 Rockhopper) that I'm converting to a singlespeed. Wasn't sure if I was going to put a rigid fork on it but stumbled on the replacement springs. Look forward to trying it out and see how my hardtail (which hasn't seen a trail in over 10 years) compares to my full suspension GT I-drive 5.

The Manitou 4's are great shocks...would hate to throw away an awesome machined part from the bike that got me hooked on the sport.


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## bradwin2 (Sep 3, 2006)

Regarding the topout bumpers for an M3 or M4: I need to make one for my M4. Do you think a McMaster-Carr 9697K11 would work with a 7/8" outside diameter instead of a 1" outside diameter? Any idea how long the topout bumper needs to be? Thanks so much.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

I found a source for 'urethane springs' in 60A Shore hardness. They are pretty close to the same ID and OD as the originals and can be ordered uncut or precut to any length. I'm going to order a bunch to test next week and will let you know how they work out. If they work out alright I'll let you know where I got them.


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## duke walker (Apr 10, 2005)

*are these available?*

i have the third manitou fork ever made, or so ive been told. its on a klein.


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## jfkpdx (Aug 3, 2008)

GT_guy said:


> Good stuff here guys.
> I'd love to get a Manitou 3 for my old Karakoram. Anyway, I have a Manitou 3 manual I can scan/copy/fax if anybody needs it.
> 
> I also have some unused Manitou elastomers in my tool box. I'm not sure if they are from the old Manitou 3 or are from a FS Ti fork. I can take some pics / measurements if you'd like.


GT Guy - I'd love to get a copy of that Manitou 3 manual. What do I need to do?

Jason


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

jfkpdx said:


> GT Guy - I'd love to get a copy of that Manitou 3 manual. What do I need to do?
> 
> Jason


You can click the link below

http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekataloge/PDF/Manuals/Manituo3.pdf


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## HungarianBarbarian (Jul 24, 2008)

I have 13 pink elastomers and 11 white plastic spacer disks out of an EFC. I replaced these with speed springs about 14 years ago and they have sat in a plastic bag since then. If anyone wants these send me a message, I am in Sacramento and will be going to Fresno this week.


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## muddahuppa (Aug 19, 2008)

*Cleaning out old bottom out elastomers*

Hi,
I have a Manitou EFC that has a bottom out elastomer that turned to glue !! Does anyone know of a good solvent to use to clean out this mess ( glue like ) without effecting the bonding agent that is used to assemble the lower leg tips? I plan to rebuild these forks with new bottom out elastomers and spring kits.
Thanks, Rick


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## IMrider (Sep 16, 2008)

*Manitou II Fork Warranty*

I bought these new when they first came out and kept EVERYTHING. Last week I noticed that my fork had lost quite a bit of travel so I pulled it apart. Sure enough the long red elastomer at the bottom was split. I started searching for parts and found the springs on Ebay. The guy says they work great but I'm not sure I'm excited about going to all spring.

I searched the web and found this thread along with another one. They replaced this guy's forks.
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-14477-15-1.html

I have the same warranty and receipt which states that they have a lifetime warranty on elastomers, seals and bushings. All I want are those parts from them.

I called Tuesday and they gave me the runaround telling me the lifetime of a fork is 4 years and I should search ebay for springs or trade mine in for $150 off of a new R7 which means I'm still $250 out of pocket. I think I'm going to get all my paperwork together and hit them again. Warranties are legally binding documents and there is no mention of a 4 year time limit on their warranty.

If they still give me crap, I'll inform them I'm going to start making some posts on some very large motorcycle sites as to their inability to deliver on their stated warranties.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

IMrider said:


> If they still give me crap, I'll inform them I'm going to start making some posts on some very large motorcycle sites as to their inability to deliver on their stated warranties.


Nice first post. Threaten them with blackmail. That's a sure way to win over people.


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## IMrider (Sep 16, 2008)

ssmike said:


> Nice first post. Threaten them with blackmail. That's a sure way to win over people.


Okay, maybe that's not the best avenue to go down. However, they should honor their warranty.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

$150 for your old fork sounds pretty generous. There aren't many bike companies who have parts that old still around. Manitou has gone through a change of owners as well which doesn't usually bode well for honoring previous warranties.


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## IMrider (Sep 16, 2008)

My issue is this is still an old bike. I can buy a decent fork for less than $250 and not put any additional cash in Answer's pocket.

I'd like to hear how the springs have worked out for people. I don't want to have a pogo stick feel to the front end. I mostly just use this bike to ride around with my kids and I still have the original, steel fork that came with the bike as a worst case fix.

I have a Superlight for mountain biking so this isn't going to see that type abuse.


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## C Miller (Aug 28, 2008)

*Springs*

I've got a Manitou 3 on a Merlin that the "rubbers" crapped the bed on. I replaced them with the yellow "Wings" steel springs off Ebay. Took about 10 minutes and got the Merlin back on the road, think I paid around 28.00 plus shipping. Picked up a set for my Mountaingoat that has a Manitou 1 and the guy waived the shipping when ordered with the 3's. Install is considerably more involved as the tubes have to be removed and torn down and the finsihed result did not turn out as well as the 3, but hey they're both on the road now and the milled parts look nice.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

IMrider said:


> Okay, maybe that's not the best avenue to go down. However, they should honor their warranty.


They are honoring the warranty. Lifetime of the fork, not your lifetime. Same thing applies to just about about every product that has a lifetime warranty, or even a long warranty. Remember, it isn't an absolute guarantee against wear and tear, it is a warranty against manufacturer defects. Your springs wore out.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Holy crap. Now we know who has all the Manitou parts. I needed some bumpers and cut up a Judy bumper and drilled it. It worked out ok.


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## DanN74 (Nov 2, 2008)

*Manitou 4 springs*

Hey all, 
Just joined up and thought I'd post up. I have a Klein Rascal that originally came with a RockShox mag 20. That broke long ago, but I've had a Manitou 4 with the Englund Engineering dampening cartridge on it since. I just started riding again after a very long hiatus, and realized the MCU's were shot. Ordered a set of dual linear springs from ebay. I just installed them (just one side - the dampener takes up the other leg) tonight. I'll try them out tomorrow and report back.

Dan N.


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## ptpalpha (Oct 3, 2008)

Dan--how did the dual linear springs work? I've got a Manitou 3 that I need to rebuild and was looking at those springs on the 'bay.


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## bradwin2 (Sep 3, 2006)

I also bought those springs recently and installed them on my M4. They work fine, but seem a bit stiff even though they are the soft version. From what I have read though, they soften up after use.


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## DanN74 (Nov 2, 2008)

Might have to wait a few days for that report. The valve stem ripped out of the tube, and I can't seem to find any stores that have presta valved tubes open on Sunday.  

My very brief impression prior to loss of tire pressure? I have the firm springs, but since I'm just running one side they seemed a bit soft. (BTW, I weigh about 210lbs) I'll report back again soon.


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## wjeffsy (Dec 25, 2008)

Try Suspension Fork Parts.com.

They sell Manitou replacement elastomers $40 (1 set) I think for a Manitou 4.


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## DanN74 (Nov 2, 2008)

Well, sorry it took so long to get back to y'all. But on my shock, with the firm "dual linear" springs on one side only, and an Englund dampener on the other, the ride is a bit too soft for my 210 lbs frame. Sensitivity is great, but it will bottom out pretty easily. I'll try removing the Englund dampener and running both sets of springs and post back. Weather is kind of cruddy, so it might be a little bit.

Can't wait for spring!

DanN74


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## ptpalpha (Oct 3, 2008)

Some quick points I wanted to add here:
The elastomers from suspensionforkparts.com work very well, and he ships fast and has reasonable prices. However, I suggest that if you weigh more than 175 and ride any kind of single track you should either get the "stiff" kit, or get the medium kit with some stiff spares to tweak the ride (he sells spare elastomer sets now in addition to full rebuild kits). The pure medium rebuild kit seems a bit soft for me on the trails, even with the preload all the down.
Also, no one ever answered the question of whether anyone has found a good way to clean out the original elastomers when they turn to glue. Anyone? Bueller?


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## Jwtackus (Feb 22, 2009)

Does the McMaster-Carr 40A and 60A come with a hole in the middle? I need info on what to do. I have a Manitou 2.

I know I need a rebound rubber which goes inside the top fork. Does anyone know how big this is?

Also the bottom uses compression rubbers which are 2 at 1.5 inches and 1 at .75 correct?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

IMrider said:


> I bought these new when they first came out and kept EVERYTHING. Last week I noticed that my fork had lost quite a bit of travel so I pulled it apart. Sure enough the long red elastomer at the bottom was split. I started searching for parts and found the springs on Ebay. The guy says they work great but I'm not sure I'm excited about going to all spring.
> 
> I searched the web and found this thread along with another one. They replaced this guy's forks.
> http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-14477-15-1.html
> ...


they'll give you $150 of an R7! ooohh I have 2 sets of 3's and an EFC, and a rear triangle fork, maybe i can trade them all in in!:thumbsup:


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## digitalkreation (Aug 17, 2008)

Ditto on SuspensionForkParts.com - Most sets are at $35.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

This reminds me, I have a dozen or so sets of NOS Manitou Fork elastomers and spring kits to sort thru still from ebay auctions I won in july.


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## DanN74 (Nov 2, 2008)

OK...so I tore into my fork this weekend. I have to say that the Englund cartridge appears to be in working order. I'm going to lay out each leg side by side and try to figure out a spring combo that might work and let me keep the oil dampener. Why not, right?

Anyone have any info on this Englund cartridge? Mine was installed by a shop years ago in Texas, and they didn't give me the instructions. An assembly diagram would sure be helpful.


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## plowak (May 14, 2007)

Do an eBay search under cycling > wings springs, he's got a variety of packages/parts. Do both of your legs have springs? If so, are they the same size (if elastomers, are the stacks the same in both legs)?


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## DanN74 (Nov 2, 2008)

I have the dual linear spring set. Thing is the dampener cartridge split the elastomer stack in a non-standard way. I'll just have to lay them out and measure everything side by side. Hopefully the spring length is compatible with the cartridge. If not I'll just have to put the original skewer back in and run without dampening. But I'm going to give a try first, just because it is a challenge. If I can get it working with quick metal springs and rebound control that would be awesome. I should have more time to work on it this week. I'll keep y'all posted. If I get it to work I'll try to take some pictures.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Since we're on the subject, I was going through a Manitou 4 that I was planning on using and found that although the elastomers looked to be in usable condition, one of the upper bushings were missing. Is there a source for those or should I just look for a used "parts fork" to steal the bushing from. Other than that, the forks are in really good condition.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

DanN74 said:


> Anyone have any info on this Englund cartridge? Mine was installed by a shop years ago in Texas, and they didn't give me the instructions. An assembly diagram would sure be helpful.


Let me check my stash. I have a couple of those dampers (one in use right now on my Norco) so I may have some instructions around somewhere.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Let me check my stash. I might have one.


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## plowak (May 14, 2007)

*Bushings?*

Don't know what you're calling bushings, do you mean spacers? I've got two top end adjustment replacement kits - new. They include adjustment knobs and everything below that to the skewers (my term for the rods that the elastomers mount on). I'd sell those for $30 plus $5 for shipping. I would highly recommend ditching the elastomers and going for springs - available on eBay. If you want to stick with elastomers, someones got a replacement set of micro cellular elastomers, firm for heavy dudes, on eBay for 12.99 ( search cycling > elastomers) & they come with spacers. These MCU's are better than the originals, they won't harden over time or dissolve when they come into contact to the wrong kind of grease. I've setup a M4 with these before. I've got a few extra spacers you can have, if these are what you call bushings - send me an address.


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## plowak (May 14, 2007)

Ohhh...bushings. You mean those nylon split rings that go at the top of the stantion tubes? I might have a couple.


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## nomat (Mar 9, 2009)

Hi I'm also looking for some feedback on kits for a manitou 4.

I heard that springs alone tend to transform the forks into pogo sticks so I'm not sure about that option yet.

about the elastomers that plowak is talking about, I saw one kit that seems to be designed for proc, sx and TI forks. anybody knows if they work on a manitou 4 ? (that kit does not comes with spacers but it is a firm ride kit for 12.99).

->plowak : Do you have the reference of the kit you did put in your M4 ? (the one I found is 85-3592)


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

plowak said:


> Ohhh...bushings. You mean those nylon split rings that go at the top of the stantion tubes? I might have a couple.


Yes, the white nylon spacer that goes under the wiper seal.


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## plowak (May 14, 2007)

The kit on eBay I recognize and it's the same one I used - don't know about the kit number. I've used the Manitou 3, 4 & EFC forks all with springs and I don't notice any pogoing. I've also got a Manitou FS with springs in the back and that doesn't seem to pogo either. I'm sold on springs, they seem to be much more responsive


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## plowak (May 14, 2007)

Send me an address and I'll send you at set of bushings (2).


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Hey I just tore down my Manitou EFC fork and i'm thinking of getting the wings 2 stage kit. Thing is the wings kit does not include replacement elastomers for what Answer refers to stage 2+3 elastomers. These are at the bottom under the stantions. Are they just for bottoming out? Mine seem a bit hardened. What can I use for replacements? Anyone?
Chris



plowak said:


> The kit on eBay I recognize and it's the same one I used - don't know about the kit number. I've used the Manitou 3, 4 & EFC forks all with springs and I don't notice any pogoing. I've also got a Manitou FS with springs in the back and that doesn't seem to pogo either. I'm sold on springs, they seem to be much more responsive


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## ptpalpha (Oct 3, 2008)

I just added the "long travel kit" from suspensionforkparts.com (which is really just another elastomer on the skewer, although it's clear instead of black) and it transformed my rather squishy "medium" ride kit (also from sfp.com) into a really, really nice plushy ride. 
I therefore retract my former statement about getting the "firm" ride kit if you weigh over 175lbs...just get the medium kit and spend another $8 for the long travel kit. Not only does it seriously improve the fork's action, it also gives you another 1/2" of travel.


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## plowak (May 14, 2007)

Ya know I don't think you have to be so fussy about yer bottom out elastomers, I think anything that is similarly springy and fits, like rubber, might do the trick. Remember, we're not dealing with first stage "O" rings on a moon rocket. What works...works! Let's see, doesn't that very bottom elastomer cover an oil port? The inside diameter of whatever you put on there might be important. As I remember, these bottom out elastomers are harder than the rebound elastomers. Ha ha, as I remember I used a section of vinyl tubing for something in the lower end one time. Have fun!


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## nomat (Mar 9, 2009)

thanks plowak. 

I just made the order for the elastomers. hope they will install and run fine. I could not find any affordable springs and would still be worried about damping.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

There's a set of red bumpers on e bay right now.


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## DanN74 (Nov 2, 2008)

On my M4 with the Englund dampener I gave in to a quick fix. I just ditched the dampener altogether and took the shock back to a stock configuration, except I have the "dual linear" springs (from ebay) on both sides. Finally got to put in some miles and my first impressions are positive. I had the firm kit, which was recommended as I weigh 205. Compared to my previous experience with the dampener the springs feel "livelier". So far I think they are great for medium and big hits, but they don't do much to attenuate smaller, high frequency bumps. This is just my first impression. I'll post back after some more miles. I don't think given my size I would go any lighter on the springs, though.

Haven't given up on the Englund Engineering dampener. The spring stack length is different for it, but I may be able to solve that with more time. The weather was nice and I just wanted to get out there! I believe it would add some refinement to the springs. 

Short version: If you're having trouble finding elastomers, the springs work just fine.

Dan


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## nomat (Mar 9, 2009)

I did put the yellow (firm) elastomers originally designed for sx/ti forks in my M4 as plowak advised. 

These elastomers are a bit wider, but they install perfectly and ride perfectly as well. Hope they will also last long.

Thanks plowak !


I also want to warn people to always put the softer elastomers on top of the skewers : the previous owner of my forks did not and as a result, I had quite some trouble to clean up the messed up blue elastomers that got stuck in the bottom of the forks.


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## NO_BRAKES (May 4, 2006)

ssmike said:


> $150 for your old fork sounds pretty generous. There aren't many bike companies who have parts that old still around. Manitou has gone through a change of owners as well which doesn't usually bode well for honoring previous warranties.


Wow, that's a dumb concept. I have been Manitou since 1999. I just bought another for my new bike. Travis. I did it out of loyalty, but now I need elastomers for my old Manitou X-vert DC dual crown, and not having much luck. If a company buys out another, I think the dumbest concept is to not support the people that have the old forks out there. As a buyer, I want the same brand, but if Manitou for instance won't help me because they don't feel responsible for the older owners that they had no part in selling to, then maybe they might want to think about keeping brand loyalty by not only buying the company from the old owners, but buy their old loyal customers as well. If I can't get parts or the company doesn't want to stand behind me, there is always Manitou's biggest competitors, Marzocci, Rock Shock and others that would be glad to make me a sale and a new loyal customer to them. Don't make sense to me to snub off old fork sale owners when a company buys it out, because if they want to continue to sell, they'll have to keep winning new people over to buy their product to keep a float.., that's called new sales. That requires salesmen and trying to woo new people that have never bought Manitou into buying your product over the competition. Or, they could woo me to stay loyal by providing me support, then, they have repeat business in loyalty when I'm ready to buy a new fork, no salesman needed or any more money to convince me to buy again. I go with the company that stood by me. Granted, they are not making a sale now, but I would buy later. MY only reason I want to fix my Manitou X-vert 125mm DC is that Manitou doesn't make a dual and or TRIPLE crown fork that is under 180mm. If they did, I'd buy new. But if HB suspension aka Answer doesn't want to help me out, I go with the latest trend and buy Marzocci, Rock Shock, or Fox next time around. And I'm sure most would agree, once a bad taste in your mouth, you never go back to the old company unless there's no other alternative. But seeing there are several, I think that I wouldn't go back. I just emailed Manitou today to see if they can help me find the springs and elastomers or at least let me know where they purchased them from in 1999. If they don't want to help, I'll keep trying. If I'm not successful, I'll sell the fork for parts and go Marzocci. Everyone on here and Ridemonkey all have them. Nobody says Manitou is good anymore. I'm one of the few left that feel it's still a good shock. Maybe the shock isn't the answer, and customer support is. We'll find out eventually when I hear back. I'm currently stuck with a Manitou Travis Single 180mm that came on my Gary Fisher King Fisher 1 bike but I bought in addition a Travis Triple to put on it day one. I've been trying to unload the 180mm 1.5 steer tube on Ebay and the highest I had offered was $200. It's brand new! But Marzocci, Fox and Rock Shox are all selling higher. So should I stay with Manitou? Time will tell if they give me the suppliers info so I can get me some elastomers and a spring. If not, Manitou X-vert DC for sale, new original soft ride elastomers and spring inside, maintained every year, mint, best offer, will be on Ebay soon. I really don't want to walk away from Manitou but everyone else has. I'm waiting to see if they help me. If they do, I'll stay with 'em. I'd owe them that if they backed me up on a ten year old fork! Remember, I just bought a new triple. So I'm still loyal! Just on the fence if I have to buy another fork for my other bike rather than get a few elastomers and a spring to fix my current problem. Time will tell. Time will tell.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Good tips! :thumbsup:


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## NO_BRAKES (May 4, 2006)

zarr said:


> Good tips! :thumbsup:


What's good tips? The salesman concept? If that is what you mean, that's just typical common sense. A company's major goal is repeat business through customer brand loyalty. IF a company gets it, they do not have to waste customer profits on advertising and sales staff to gain new clients. They can dump it into research into producing a better product and get more profit margins as a result, as well as grow. The best form of advertising is word of mouth and branding. Take Jesus Christ. All word of mouth. Look at Kleenex. Hey give me a Kleenex. That's the optimum. Rather than give me a tissue. That's due to branding and advertising. Once a company has brand loyalty, the loyal owner will tell all his friends what a great product it is and they should buy it too. That is sales generated without advertising or any sales staff to do so. That is what a company wants. If they can get that to happen, they will be successful. As example, a buddy of mine bought my same bike and is loyal to Manitou because of me. I'm not one to say, Marzocci is the best fork, because I've never rode one. But I can speak for manitou. I think guys that abuse shocks are the ones that go on sites and bad mouth it. Kind of like the 15 year old that buys a super expensive bike, MAKE THAT HIS DAD buys an expensive bike and when he jumps it off a ten footer onto a paved parking lot and whines the company sux because they wouldn't honor the warranty. But Manitou did get back to me on the place to look for elastomers and springs, but I haven't had time to trace the lead yet. Too busy. I'll let you know as to the outcome. Least comes to least, I still have the original spring and soft ride kit elastomers, so I can still get the shock to last me but I don't like soft. Thus the reason I want stiff ride parts. I take it that's what you meant as to good tips?

NO_BRAKES


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## IMrider (Sep 16, 2008)

no_brakes understands my issue. A good company would have honored the warranty like they did for the individual I posted about. I would have been more than happy to send them the fork to look at so they'd know it was not abused in any way, shape or form. It literally didn't have a scratch on it and was used only on road.

I've got 5 off road motorcycles along with 9 mountain bikes in my garage. Between 3 boys and me, we go through a lot of gear and parts. I will not buy another Answer product unless it's the only option available. Handlebars, clothing, rider protection, mountain bike parts, etc. There's other companies out there that I can get parts from that will stand behind them.

That said, I found http://suspensionforkparts.com/Home_Page.html before checking back here. I bought a set of the medium elastomers for my Manitou II, installed them and they work great.

I have a Santa Cruz Superlight and upgraded it to disks a while back. Called Santa Cruz and the guy sent me hydraulic line mounts for the frame and I asked where I could BUY some. He was very helpful and sent them to me for free. It's nice that some people still realize that customers keep the doors open.


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## NO_BRAKES (May 4, 2006)

IMrider said:


> no_brakes understands my issue. A good company would have honored the warranty like they did for the individual I posted about.QUOTE]
> Well, I agree all companies should honor warranties. As to my fork, mine is now ten years old. I've taken very good care of it. I recently bought a bike that came with a manitou Travis single but because I demand dual crown and or as they call the travis, a TRIPLE, I went and bought the triple clamp on top of the bike that came with the single. My problem is, I can't unload it for any decent price. Nobody want's Manitou anymore. I can't believe so many people bad mouth them all of a sudden. I can understand Manitou no longer supporting a ten year old fork, but it would be nice if they had extra elastomers around or at least give me their suppliers info so I can at least try and find the replacements. At this point, another part inside broke and I glued it. The fork is on it's last leg, no pun intended, but I'm looking into another fork at this time on Ebay and yes, it's a manitou. At least Manitou is still affordable. Other manufacturers have gotten so way out of this world with astronomical prices. I can't buy a dual crown fork for under a thousand. That's nuts. I paid $500 for my Manitou dual crown X-vert. I'd love to be able to get a dual crown six inch or seven for that same price but those days are over. Only on Ebay. Which is where I'll get one eventually. A stance went the other day for like $235. IF the dumba-ss that sold it had just got back with me with better pics to show me the stantions were not damaged, I would have given him up to $300 for it. It was probably just the pics, but I'm not one to blow over a hundred on Ebay without sending me close up pics and this jerk-ass just wouldn't. So I let it go. But needless to say, I'm not spending a fortune on a fork so Manitou is my brand for now. Until someone like Marzocchi sells a dual for around $500 with six inches or more. I don't need downhill, I just need travel and a stiff ride kit. And for my X-vert, I just need the stiff ride yellow spring and the yellow elastomers.
> 
> I did however since speaking on here put in the original soft ride kit that came with it and it rides nice. I'd like to send it back to Manitou to overhaul it, clean it, and put in new bottom outs and stuff but I'm sure they could care less. I even spoke to a guy on the phone there and he said he had a brand new X-vert that someone traded in but he wouldn't sell it to me. Well, for now, I'm looking into another frame and if so, I'll be able to use the single Travis that came with my bike and be done with it.
> ...


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## IMrider (Sep 16, 2008)

I bought the Manitou II as a separate item after purchasing the bike and at the time it was outrageously expensive. I went with Answer because of their super high quality, billet machined brace and warranty and customer service. If 2 of the 4 reasons no longer exist then what's the draw over others? At the time, Rock Shox were leaking like crazy. 

My Superlight has a Fox 100RL and it's a really nice fork. Sure they're expensive but realistically, they're light years ahead of this old Answer fork and I've seen brand new one's at close to what I orignally paid for the Manitou. 

I'm getting the feeling that the reason people are bad mouthing Answer is partially due to customer service. Companies just don't care anymore after the sale. 

My wife and I took my kids 6 1/2, 9 and 11 1/2 to Moab over spring break and I took the old bike since I knew I wasn't going to ride anything wild and I didn't worry about it on the back of the truck. That old fork worked great soaking up most all of the bumps and drops I did with it. It's still a good fork.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself better understood in this thread. What I meant earlier is I learned some things from this thread. I'll try a better choice of words in the future.  That aside, I wonder if the problem some are reporting with Manitou is the result of their merge that happened a while back. Maybe that changed some things. (I don't know for sure...just a guess.  )


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## bmwbykrydr (May 21, 2009)

*Manitou 2/3 elastomer substitute*

Great thread.  I thought I would add my two bits ...

I took my bike out today for the first ride since last summer. Over the winter the elastomer's "melted" and the forks were bottomed out. I was happy to find this thread and joined the group right away. It looks like the http://suspensionforkparts.com/Manitou.html is a good source to buy them, though I have not done this and have no idea of quality or fit.

If you are willing and able to do some work of your own then McMaster-Carr is the way to go in my opinion. I looked at the McMaster products and thought I would post another alternative that I found on their site. If you buy the round bar you will have to drill the hole, not very difficult. If you have to drill the hole anyway, take a look at their square bar stock as well, 8781K911. The difference is that you can get the square stock in 20A and 30A durometer hardness. The round only goes down to 40A. The washers between my elastomer's measure 1.05" in diameter. A 3/4" square has a hypotenuse of 1.06". If you wanted to really soften a ride or just needed more flexibility in ride setup the 3/4" square will fit in your tubes.

Don
'93 Cannondale M800, Manitou 2


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I got to call and see if spare parts can get me a anti-bob kit (lock out) for my 2000/01 Manitou SXR. I had it since 2002 and never used it. It feels light as a a feather compared to the Dart 3. Paid $69.00 for it back in the day. Alloy steerer & stanction tubes. Tubes not 32mm though. I think it's a good fork though.


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

geckocycles said:


> http://geckocycles.com/some_old_stuff.htm
> For larger pictures.
> I also have a couple of crown assemblies 1.25" and 1.125" and 1" steerers


I have a set of NOS red elastomers from a Manitou fork...I'm guessing they came out of a Mach V.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Just ordered Manitou 3 refresh kit medium and long travel medium. I ride pretty aggressively on some technical trails. I weigh about 172+/-. Should I get some firm elastomers in the set up? I'm looking for the fork to take some big hits but mostly to soak up the little bumps as best as it can handle. I currently ride with springs and not liking the lack of dampening and I do experience pogoing. Hopefully the refresh kit will solve my problems. How are you guys setting up the mixture of elastomers. Can anyone suggest a cleaner I can use for the sanctions? I'm experiencing some stickyness.

Thanks guys...


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## gtcali (Jun 2, 2009)

Does anybody know where I can get a dust seal and retaining ring for a Manitou 4?


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

bmwbykrydr said:


> Great thread.  I thought I would add my two bits ...
> 
> I took my bike out today for the first ride since last summer. Over the winter the elastomer's "melted" and the forks were bottomed out. I was happy to find this thread and joined the group right away. It looks like the http://suspensionforkparts.com/Manitou.html is a good source to buy them, though I have not done this and have no idea of quality or fit.
> 
> ...


It would be virtually impossible to drill that material.

-Schmitty-


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## SVG 99 (Jul 14, 2009)

bmwbykrydr said:


> It looks like the http://suspensionforkparts.com/Manitou.html is a good source to buy them, though I have not done this and have no idea of quality or fit.


I also just ordered a " refresh kit " for my RS Judy XC from these folks .... super fast shipping and a great product .... they are of a urethane , but not of the cellular type .


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## chaz2002 (Sep 15, 2003)

To sum up:

*Elastomers* are available at:
suspensionforkparts.net
http://suspensionforkparts.net/eshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=42

Refresh kit: $45.00
Long travel kit (gives you an extra 1/2"): $13 

They also have* Owner's manuals *for Repair and maintenance:
http://www.suspensionforkparts.net/manitou_manual.php

*Springs *are available on ebay (look for mr_wings)
http://myworld.ebay.com/mr_wings/

Here is his non-ebay home page: http://wings-suspension.de/index.html

pair of coil springs: $30.95 + 4.95 shipping
Pair of dual coil springs (extra protection against bottoming) $37.95
with 60mm (2.4") of travel, it doesn't sound like you need a long travel kit here.

(more replacement parts here: http://www.bikepro.com/ad_copy/forks.html)

I think I'm going the dual spring route...


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## rlbader (Jun 28, 2009)

*manitou answer parts*

I am looking for retaining rings, dust seals and dust covers for an old (92-93) Manitou m-sport fork. I do not know whether parts from another year would also work. If anyone has these or knows where to find please let me know.


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## IMrider (Sep 16, 2008)

My BIL just gave me an old HOS Marin bicycle with a Manitou 3 on it. Has dials on top so it must be slightly newer than my 2. It seems to function just fine. Although he's quite a bit lighter than I am so it's a little too soft.


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## RJT (Sep 28, 2009)

*springs or elastomers for Manitou 3?*

Great thread. I have a new (to me) Manitou 3 fork and I'm either going to buy the elastomers from suspensionforkparts.net or the springs from wings-suspension.de. I know this is covered to some extent in the prior posts, but if anyone (particularly anyone who has used both) has any thoughts on which is best for all around xc trail riding I'd appreciate it. I'm leaning toward the elastomers now due to the pogo comments. Thanks.


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## ez054098 (Jul 25, 2008)

I have the original Doug Bradbury built Manitou forks, circa 1991. Mine elastomers melted and I was looking for spring replacements (cleaning the those things up was a pain). I tried to buy the Manitou 1 springs from eBay, but they are not correct. 

Can anyone help? Thanks.

P.S. If anyone wants pictures let me know and I will post some to this thread.


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

Well I'm sorry guys for all this delay. The guy I sold this bike/fork too keeps putting me off so I have decided to get these parts to someone who really wants them. See post #17 for what I have.
This was the bike/fork they fit. 









I also have Mach 5 SX damper rebuild kits. The bags were opened and I only have one set of instructions. There is not 2 complete kits here. I took inventory and this is a list of what I have:
2 shaft foam wipers (040995) One is torn but I think it may still work. Could put a micro drop of super glue on it.
2 Seal Glands (040931)
2 O-Rings 3/4" x 1" (040932)
2 Quad Ring Seals (040676) I think there should be 4 for 2 kits. 2 in inner leg and 2 in damper shaft as far as I can tell. I could be wrong, just going by exploded view.
These above parts go in the Left inner leg (9041050) not included. LOL.

The below parts go into the Damper Shaft (040938) not included either.
1 Valve Pin (040685) Should be 2 for 2 complete kits. These are just metal pins and unless lost could be reused
1 Detent Ball (040689) Should be 2 for 2 complete kits. These are just metal balls and unless lost could be reused
6 O-Rings 1/4" x 3/8" (040690)
2 Adjuster Rods (040936)
7 Retainer Rings (040690) Looks like there are 3 extras of these.
2 O-Rings 7/8" x 1" (040934)
2 Pistons (040933)
4 Spring Shims .005" (040980)
2 Nylon Washers (040682)
2 Clamp Shims (040982)
2 End Caps (040930)
2 O-Rings 15/16" x 1/16" (040673)
2 Shaft Seal Wipers (040994)
2 Adjuster Knobs (040937)
2 O-Rings (040688)

So basically there is 1 complete rebuild kit and almost another. 
All the O-Rings and wiper seals are in place in this picture.









For a larger picture. 
https://www.geckocycles.com/images/old%20bike%20stuff/Parts/damper%20kit.jpg

What I have as far as urethane's are: See post #17 for picts.
1 firm ride kit for 96 SX/EFC part #85-3592 6 Yellow 50.5mm long x 19mm dia with 4.5mm through hole in the center with 4 plastic washers 24mm dia with 4.5 mm hole.

1 Med ride kit with no label on it. Sorry no part number. 6 Red 50.5mm long x 19mm dia with 4.5mm through hole in the center with 4 plastic washers 24mm dia with 4.5 mm hole.

2 soft ride kits for 96 SX/EFC part #85-3590 6 Blue 50.5mm long x 19mm dia with 4.5mm through hole in the center with 4 plastic washers 24mm dia with 4.5 mm hole.

1 Soft Ride Kit for EFC. Part #85-3526 The bag is missing one staple on it. There is 9 light blue/green and 2 red dampers in it. 25mm long x 15.5 mm dia with 4.5 mm holes in them.

4 used red urethane's. 28.5 mm long x 18.5 mm dia with 4.5 mm hole. Not sure what these were for or from.


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## i_s_shaw (Feb 20, 2008)

*Manitou elastomers*

Just picked up on this thread, have been trying to get my threes and fours back in action on a retro build (GT RTS-1). If any one can help/supply any of the following (I'm based in the UK if that helps):

- Bushings (top and bottom) - someone did list that they had some in this thread.
- Elastomers - rebound, damping and bottom out

I've also seen the post with the damping rebuild kit for the EFC/Mach 5. Is this compatible with a three/four and if so, does anything need to be in the fork to start with, or can this be fitted retrospectively?

Any other help with getting these forks to some working state would be gratefully received, as I've bought some speed springs and just need to get the rest of the bits.

Cheers

Ian


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## rudymexico (Aug 14, 2010)

*Judy Elastomers?*

My Judy forks are shot...I need to replace them, any ideas?


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## mhickey79 (Feb 22, 2007)

rudymexico said:


> My Judy forks are shot...I need to replace them, any ideas?


http://www.suspensionforkparts.net/


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## Thatshowiroll (Jan 30, 2009)

My Manitou SX is way too soft for my 180lbs of girth. I'm looking for the stiffest elastomers or springs to replace the red elastomers in this fork.
There's a lot of info on this thread but I'm not knowledgeable enough to decifer what would work. 
Slimboy or anyone else?


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## rudymexico (Aug 14, 2010)

mhickey79 said:


> http://www.suspensionforkparts.net/


What should be better...Elastomers or Wings Suspension Springs?

What rides better?

http://wings-suspension.de/index.html


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## wakkah (Nov 1, 2010)

Hello everybody!

I am reading articles and reviews on mtbr for a while but only now i created an account.
Recently i received a Marin Pine FRS bike with Manitou2 rear suspension and Manitou Sport fork and both of them are stuck, the elastomers are completely melted. Until now i only disassembled the front suspension and found a liquid inside that could be a combination of oil and melted elastomer and small parts of sticky rubber that used to be elastomer.



rudymexico said:


> What should be better...Elastomers or Wings Suspension Springs?
> 
> What rides better?
> 
> http://wings-suspension.de/index.html


From all reviews i read and opinions i heard the springs seem to be way better. I think i will get the Wings kit.

A problem that i encountered was the cleaning of the melted elastomer. Is it ok if i use a solvent to clean it? Does it work?


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## Killer V 900 (Oct 3, 2010)

I just purchased a Manitou 3 refresh kit (firm) kit and a long travel kit (firm) from www.suspensionforkparts.net The quality is great and the ride is better that original. I am 175lbs and a very agressive rider. I would recomend this kit to any one that is going to rebuild their forks.


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## Thatshowiroll (Jan 30, 2009)

Thatshowiroll said:


> My Manitou SX is way too soft for my 180lbs of girth. I'm looking for the stiffest elastomers or springs to replace the red elastomers in this fork.
> There's a lot of info on this thread but I'm not knowledgeable enough to decifer what would work.
> Slimboy or anyone else?


Phuk it! I threw out the Manitou and bought a Fox.


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## wakkah (Nov 1, 2010)

I managed to clean the melted elastomer paste quite easy with gasoline which i left it in the fork arms overnight. I also got all the spacers and bushings intact, only the elastomer pieces need to be replaced.
I sent an email to wings-suspension.de but after a week i still didn t receive an answer. Was there anyone hera able to contact them and received a response. The springs were my first option but i will also take the elastomers into consideration. The next problem is that www.suspensionforkparts.net only has medium and hard and as i weight only 130 lbs i would need the softest.

I m not sure I want to try this but i'll ask it out of pure curiosity: is it possible to adapt springs from other forks that fit in diameter and still ride safe?

I had this ideea as i have a Suntour fork i don t use anymore and thought that if the diameter is right i could probably shorten the springs and adapt the ends somehow.


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## Killer V 900 (Oct 3, 2010)

If you are an agressive rider the medium would probably work better than the soft.

here is a spring kit listed on ebay,

http://cgi.ebay.com/Coil-Springs-An...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b507f3d3


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Wings-springs
5804 E. West View Dr.
Orange CA.
phone # (714) 289-2551
e-mail [email protected]

He's got a website also. Don't know how to post a link but google wings springs maybe throw in manitou should get you there.

I weight about 170 and am running 1 hard spring, and 1 soft spring, to give me what I figure is about medium.
I first ordered the soft when I weighted a little under 160, and would easily bottom out the fork to the point were the tire contactacted the fork causing unexpected stops, and sudden OTB potential just by standing to pedal. I like forks on the stiffer side so althou you weigh 130 would recommend the mediums but it's your call.

Some people say that the springs make the fork like a pogo stick but I think ther work better than the elastemers ever did. I used the big washers that're located on top of the old elastemer stack. These flat metal washers fit very snugly in the tube. I placed them in the same location but on top of the new springs instead of the elastemers. Don't know for sure if it does anything but it can't hurt and swear that because it's so snug it gives a little air dampening effect, because I can hear what sounds like air when compressed and it never feels like a pogo stick to me.

My experience has been that "Mr. Wings" is a little flaky and hard to get a hold of, but makes a good product and if ordered on ebay ships quickly.


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## wakkah (Nov 1, 2010)

Thanks @Killer V 900 and @theMeat.

I wrote a message on Ebay and received an answer and was provided with a yahoo email address.
Is http://myworld.ebay.de/mr_wings?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQE:1181 the same with http://www.wings-suspension.de ?

Thank you very much for the recommendation @the Meat but considering it s a 17 year old Marin bike i won t do much aggressive riding with it and for my weight i think soft is good enough (also on my AM bike the suspension is set for soft and i am used with it).

Thanks again and have a nice day


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

wakkah said:


> I managed to clean...with gasoline


I generally use a 91% or 96% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning. The reason is that gasoline can leave a residue that itself needs to be cleaned up. Isoproply alcohol will not and doesn't smell as bad, especially if you spill it. Isopropyl alcohol seems to clean up a whole lot of things.


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

Well, well, well....this thread is going to help me out. I walked past my wife's singlespeed with a Manitou 1 on the front end and noticed a puddle of red wax on the garage floor. ? There's some on the spokes, too.

So, after 16 years, without lithium grease, the urethane just liquified and dribbled out of the vent hole... what a mess. This is going to be fun, but at least I've got the beta from folks in this thread that have dealt with it.


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## AbnInf (Dec 1, 2010)

A few months ago I bought a '94 Diamond Back Axis TR. It was virtually unridden and stored in a climate controlled room. I tore apart the Manitou 3 forks (disassembled the entire bike to go through it) and the internals looked brand new. Elastomers are good to go. Re-greased everything and put them back together. I've just started doing serious riding with the bike and when I pop the front wheel off the ground the forks clunk badly. They also did it before I went through the fork so it wasn't something I did. I read if they are on full hard it will clunk, but mine do it even on full soft. I just ordered a long travel kit for it. Has anyone else had this problem? Looking for a fix, hopefully the LT kit will do it.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I have had an axis TR since new, if you did the mod to extend the travel (from 2 to 2.4 inch) by taking out the top out bumper, then they would clunk a bit on top out.


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## KrisKringle (Mar 17, 2011)

First post, took a multi year hiatis from mountain bike scene. I used to race then blew my knee and gave up on mtn biking. Well I cant stay down so out comes my bike from the shed. 
I will share what I know about the mountain bike world on here from time to time. I wont be able to help much on the new as I am old school, but I am a certified bike mechanic and a master wheel builder from the old days.

First off the link to the wings springs website;

http://wings-suspension.de/index.html

the site looks maintained I hope because I am ordering a set of these springs for my EFC

second, the manitou long travel kits of old (1,2,3,4) were an additional elastomer or two depending, with a rebound bumper that was half size of the normal rebound. So you didn't get the metallic clunk of metal to metal but still gain that 1/2 inch of travel. That is what the old manitou long travel kits consisted of, if you want to do it yourself get a rebound bumper and cut it in half, there you go

LoL now if I could just get a set of springs to replace my scott shocks elastomer's on my other bike. I think that will be a new fork...


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## ez054098 (Jul 25, 2008)

I tried to send them an email and it bounced.


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## KrisKringle (Mar 17, 2011)

They just sent me a confirmation email notifying me they are on the way......sweet


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## hjaltip (Nov 2, 2010)

you can get replacement elastomers for manitous and other forks here
www.suspensionforkparts.net


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## vmalmgren (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi: For those of you who have tried the McMaster-Carr polyurethane rod route, how has it worked out for you? Also, one poster said he cut them with a mitre saw. But how did you drill the holes. Posters from other forums (retrobike.com) have said drilling the holes is a big hassle and that if you nick the top at all, the whole elastomer splits when under pressure. I just want to make sure the McMaster Carr rods work before I order one. Thanks.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I just found a box full of elastomers while cleaning out the garage


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## old'skool (Jul 2, 2011)

If you can get your hands on some, Skydrol 500 (Commercial Aircraft Hydraulic Fluid) does a wonderful job of cleaning up the old elastomer goo on manitous. It attacks any kind of rubber except EPR and EPDM.

Just don't get it in your eyes, and wash your hands before you pee......


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## dlstyley (Feb 13, 2008)

@vmalmgren: My Manitou didn't need holes. If you need holes, that's probably not a good option. I can't imagine trying to drill those out. BTW- since I fixed mine, the top cap broke, so mine is dead now. Good luck!


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

So, I thought I'd post a few notes based on my rebuild of the Manitou 1 on my wife's SS, after the red "standard" Manitou elastomers liquified and dribbled out of the vent holes drilled in the bottom of each fork leg.

When I pulled apart the forks, the translucent white seals were fine, but the elastomer stacks were stuck down in the legs. In one leg, the red had expanded to the width of the inner leg diameter, flowed around the washer separating it from the bumper below it and was a real pain to extract. The red bumper below it was gooey like putty, but came out. In the other leg, both bumpers had liquified to such a thin consistency that they dribbled out of the 1/16" vent holes I'd drilled down there so long ago... and coated the interior of the leg. 

In both, the "microcellular" elastomers retrofitted into the M1 out of Mach 5's did not change consistency and were fine. In my bag of spare parts, most of the translucent red and yellow elastomers were either gooey or had very little rebound, like hard putty or stale chewed gum.

I cleaned out the fork legs with solvent and an old t-shirt wrapped around a Manitou 1 allen wrench and then discovered that the black, top-out bumpers had also turned to goo. More cleaning.

I drilled out some more micro-cellular bumpers (the Mach 5 used a much thinner rod), swapped in the delrin washers instead of aluminum ones from the OG Manitou and made new top-outs from wafers of red microcellular. After a polishing of the inner legs, the stanchions and a nice greasing with non-lithium grease, it all went right back together. The fork is plush and smooth.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Old melted elastomers are a mess to clean up, huh?

Pics?


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

None by me -- too busy working on the fork!


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## ANTBRAX (Aug 28, 2011)

mik_git said:


> I just found a box full of elastomers while cleaning out the garage


If they are old, they WILL melt. I had one melt in the box...:madman:


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

mhickey79 said:


> suspensionforkparts - Home


I've got a few sets of the Wings springs, but seems he up and disappeared leaving us without an easy spring conversion source!

So, I may go this Supension Fork Parts direction soon. I've got an old Manitou 1 I've been wanting to revive, as well as a couple other 3's & 4's that I never got around to rebuilding, so I may order up just 1 kit and see how it works. Kind of pricey though. I also see he has the dust seals, which is great!


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

I agree..those bumpers are quite expensive...they are just urethane bushings I believe. I have several Manitou forks that I need to rebuild nut I've been waiting on a cheaper supplier for the bumpers...

any sources for these at a DIY or Mcmastercarr????


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

EBasil said:


> Well, well, well....this thread is going to help me out. I walked past my wife's singlespeed with a Manitou 1 on the front end and noticed a puddle of red wax on the garage floor. ? There's some on the spokes, too.


I know that this is old, but I thought that vI'd add to this thread instead of adding another one...

I wonder how many folks drilled out their manitou 1's.....I also drilled mine, It didnt work until i did. The funny thing is, I now own about 6 of them (recent purchases for bike builds and parts) and not one of them is drilled? On my fork, as soon as you hit a good bump, the seal would allow the air to escape and send the fork into a hydraulic lockout. It would have to be unscrewed (remove stanctions) to fix it...dont know where i got the idea, but it worked...I actually tapped a hole and placed a plastic screw into it to keep debris/water out (could be sucked in the hole when fork is rebounding)...the screws clearance on the threads was enough to keep the fork from locking out.

also, several people were nice enough to post McMastercarr items long ago....thanks...and to answer a question that went unanswered...

to drill out the urethane bushings, place them in the freezer for awhile, let them firm up and then drill/cut them to size.


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## tomboyjr (Jul 16, 2009)

Dont know if this is allowed, sorry. I have a bunch of old Manitou elastomers. Had an ad on Pinkbike that could be found under the same name I use here.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

tomboyjr said:


> Dont know if this is allowed, sorry. I have a bunch of old Manitou elastomers. Had an ad on Pinkbike that could be found under the same name I use here.


Old stuff is most likely junk. Even when unused.


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## SynchroM (May 28, 2013)

*Rubber Resurrection*

The thread that just won't die rises again!

I'm resurrecting some 1998 Manitou SX Ti forks; the main spring and MCU are fine and damping works ok but the second stage elastomers have liquified (really nasty, greasy, sticky goo!) and the rebounds are knackered. I'm aiming to make replacements myself since the suspensionforkparts.net refresh kit costs more than the whole fork is worth and don't seem to include all the bits.

The vital thing I'm missing is the measurements of these elastomers - It's been asked a couple of times in this thread but never answered. The outer diameter seems to be 22mm (7/8"), inner around 12.5mm. The rebound elastomers (part number 041462) are (very soft) rubber rather than PU - I have one that's vaguely intact and it's about 24mm long, but it's had a hard life... I have no idea what size the second and third stage elastomers should be (part numbers 040692 (orange) and 040693 (black)) - they look like they're a similar size to the rebounds but it would be very helpful to have the right size. Does anyone happen to know?

This US supplier looks good and has some useful info: elastomer colours indicate durometer: 40A (Yellow), 60A (Black), 80A (Orange), 90A (Dark Blue), 95A (Red). I don't know how standard that is, but there's a lot of red 95A on eBay, not much of anything else.

I found some 22mm polyurethane rod on eBay, but I don't know what durometer it is; I've asked the seller. I suspect it's 40A which should be ok for rebounds, but too soft for second/third stages. Anyone know of a good polyurethane rod supplier in Europe?

There are some very cheap springs about the right size and shape that could possibly be used as replacements for these elastomers, but I've no idea what their rate is or whether they would be too bouncy/undamped relative to elastomers. Lee Spring does all kinds of spring sizes & rates.


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## Rwayne (Aug 7, 2013)

*Manitou mach 5 pro xc*

EDITmadman wrong size diameter! for my forks. 5/8" to small . will reorder, and post back

First off, awesome thread. I read most of it. After reading it i've decided to purchase a 60A *5/8* polyurethane rod 12" from amazon. around 23 bucks and it will be here in less than 36hrs. Gonna cut them to 1" after reading a post on here. Still need to clean the fork up, but at a decent price i should be up and rolling shortly. I'll post back when it's done, as i want to be helpful as all you have. THanks Again


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## Rwayne (Aug 7, 2013)

*Here's a pic! Looks like pieces of candy.*



The guy i bought this from had cut pieces of pvc and placed them around the guides in the bottom part of the fork to keep it rideable. I hope i have all pieces.


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## SynchroM (May 28, 2013)

A little update on mine. I got one of those little springs and it fits perfectly, really quite pleasing! The only issue with it is that it moves too easily on the guide and you can hear it bouncing up and down. I think I need to take it apart again and put a thin slice of the PU on top of it to make it stay at the bottom of the guide.

The yellow PU rod I bought is really too hard, though I don't know what the rating is, probably 95A. I drilled it slightly big to make it more compressible, but a softer durometer would be better. One thing I'd not thought of: the PU rod makes a superb tool for wrapping a rag around and cleaning out the fork legs!

@Rwayne - did you find the 60A rod a good match for what was there before? Got a link for your source?


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## Rwayne (Aug 7, 2013)

SynchroM said:


> A little update on mine. I got one of those little springs and it fits perfectly, really quite pleasing! The only issue with it is that it moves too easily on the guide and you can hear it bouncing up and down. I think I need to take it apart again and put a thin slice of the PU on top of it to make it stay at the bottom of the guide.
> 
> The yellow PU rod I bought is really too hard, though I don't know what the rating is, probably 95A. I drilled it slightly big to make it more compressible, but a softer durometer would be better. One thing I'd not thought of: the PU rod makes a superb tool for wrapping a rag around and cleaning out the fork legs!
> 
> @Rwayne - did you find the 60A rod a good match for what was there before? Got a link for your source?


As i just recieved this rod, i edited my first post. You're right about the rod being good for cleaning i had just thought of that. I used alcohol a small rake stick and an old t-shirt for mine. being a smaller size(5/8") than what i needed*(3/4")* it will be perfect for deep clean. but i'm back to square one on getting another rod. This one seems pretty flexible but kinda hard still. I wish it was the right size so i could test it out for sure. Here's the link***Pick your size*** 
PUR (Polyurethane) Round Rod, Opaque Amber, Standard Tolerance, ASTM D-624: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


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## arcdesigns (Jul 24, 2007)

Not sure if anyone posted this link yet but in case it has not been here goes:

rebuild » bMHR


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## Rwayne (Aug 7, 2013)

*Update*

So I received the new PU rod 3/4" for my manitou 5 pro xc fork. They may could even be a little bigger in diameter...13/16??.....I'm up and running and it felt pretty good. Had it on a low setting and it seemed soft. I'll check again tomorrow with stiffer setting. 
I used 1" pieces I cut with sharp chop blade after freezing it. It doesn't have to completely freeze, but you can tell as it gets closer to room temp. I ended up using only 8 of 10 spacers but it feels fine. Meaning, I probably could have used them all with shorter cuts.

UPDATE:
So i stiffened it up a little which seems to took a little bit of travel out of it. All in all i'm happy. Feels good and because i don't plan on doing anything too crazy on this bike, i'm confident in the forks. And the 60A Stiffness/softness seems good to me
THANKS TO ALL


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## Jimbo1376 (Jun 27, 2014)

We are a few years down the line now but do you have any of the Manitou elastomers remaining please?


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## jdfilms (Jul 14, 2014)

I just found this thread also. I am rebuilding a Manitou 1 for my Yeti Ultimate that I am restoring. Someone sent me a bag full of red elastomers and two yellow ones that are all 1" long. But the hole is only 3mm and won't fit on the Manitou 1 bolt. I am going to try freezing them as someone suggested then drill them to 1/4". If that doesn't work this company sells polyurethane tube and I think the 3/4" with 1/4" hole will work. Someone posted a link to this company earlier but that was for rod without a hole.
Urethane Tubes, Polyurethane Tubes, Cast Urethane, Cast Polyurethane


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## J3s (Jun 24, 2013)

Hey guys, the elastomers of the RST Mozo Pro are the same as the ones from the M3 (same factory). I just refubished mine, and it's like new. 

Those elastomers are easy to get online.


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## jdfilms (Jul 14, 2014)

J3s said:


> Hey guys, the elastomers of the RST Mozo Pro are the same as the ones from the M3 (same factory). I just refubished mine, and it's like new.
> 
> Those elastomers are easy to get online.


Do you have a link? Are those with a 3mm hole in the center or is the M3 6mm like the 1 and 2?

For my Manitou 1 rebuild I tried putting the 3mm elastomers in the freezer as someone suggested and drilled one out to 1/4" so it's close to 6mm and it worked. It's not the cleanest hole and not perfectly centered but I'm going to do it for all of them and run it.


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## J3s (Jun 24, 2013)

jdfilms said:


> Do you have a link? Are those with a 3mm hole in the center or is the M3 6mm like the 1 and 2?
> 
> For my Manitou 1 rebuild I tried putting the 3mm elastomers in the freezer as someone suggested and drilled one out to 1/4" so it's close to 6mm and it worked. It's not the cleanest hole and not perfectly centered but I'm going to do it for all of them and run it.


Those elastomers are 3mm. I did the job at a small lbs in a village nearby. I'll ask him for an address overseas (at your side of the pond). He did import and test all the RST forks in Europe in the 90's. Hope he still has the contacts.









He has bags of elastomers lying around... all sizes and colour


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## gomer hardtale (Jul 2, 2008)

check suspensionforkparts.net


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## gpnt (Apr 20, 2009)

*Manitou 4 forks rebuild*

Just bought some Manitou 4 forks,I've removed the internals and now wish to remove the stantions could someone please advise on how to do it.thanks


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## JoeG (Nov 14, 2012)

^ gpnt - You can download the manual at suspensionforkparts - Manitou Manuals


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