# Brooks Saddle: Is Proofide necessary?



## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Yes, I know I need a leather conditioner to protect and help break in my new B17. But, do I have to use Proofide or is there something else as good or better. I have heard of neetsfoot oil be used. I really want to protect my investment, so I am looking for the best product. Also, any tips for breaking it in? I know this thing is hard as a rock now, but having seen and ridden other tensioned leather saddles that are older than me, I know they become very comfy. Thanks.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

bikerboy said:


> Yes, I know I need a leather conditioner to protect and help break in my new B17. But, do I have to use Proofide or is there something else as good or better. I have heard of neetsfoot oil be used. I really want to protect my investment, so I am looking for the best product. Also, any tips for breaking it in? I know this thing is hard as a rock now, but having seen and ridden other tensioned leather saddles that are older than me, I know they become very comfy. Thanks.


Proofide is just a conditioner for the leather to increase the life of the saddle. It's not necessarily going to speed up the break-in process. The only thing that will speed up the break in process is riding the saddle. The more your ride, the faster it will break in.

As for alternates to Proofide, I would imagine any product for conditioning leather would suffice, but Proofide is pretty cheap - $6.25 for a tin that will last at least a year. http://www.permaco.com/en-us/dept_30.html


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

*The messenger.*

Shoot me, but I and others break in Brooks saddles like a cowboy breaks in new boots. Immerse the seat (mounted to the post and out of the bike) in a large enough container of warm water for awhile. Mount and ride for an hour or longer. Apply a good helping of proofhide once in a while thereafter. A tin of proofhide lasts my fleet longer than a year.

This method doesn't do anything other than make breaking in a Brooks saddle a one day affair, instead of a month or more of trying.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Bigwheel said:


> Shoot me, but I and others break in Brooks saddles like a cowboy breaks in new boots. Immerse the seat (mounted to the post and out of the bike) in a large enough container of warm water for awhile. Mount and ride for an hour or longer. Apply a good helping of proofhide once in a while thereafter. A tin of proofhide lasts my fleet longer than a year.
> 
> This method doesn't do anything other than make breaking in a Brooks saddle a one day affair, instead of a month or more of trying.


How long do you soak the saddle in the warm water?


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

bikerboy said:


> How long do you soak the saddle in the warm water?


Until it is a little bit soft to the touch, like about 5 minutes or so in warm, as in hot tapwater, not boiling hot water. If you didn't do it enough you will feel it right away in the form of resistance/hardness in the saddle. Soak some more until when you sit on it it feels soft(er).


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Cool, thanks for the tip.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

There are several ways to "break in" a Brooks saddle.... BUT .... there is only ONE that is recommended by the makers of the saddles.

That is, to apply a coating of Proofide to the top and bottom of the saddle when new, and then ride it.

Other coats can be applied during the break-in period if required, but only to the top of the leather.

Brooks DO NOT recommend any other way.

These guys have been making the saddles for over 100 years. They ought to know what is best for the leather by now, don't you think?

if you really want to protect your investment, then follow the makers instructions.

R.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

I doubt that Justin recommends that someone puts their new boots on and stands in the watering trough for awhile either....but that has been done now for over 100 years.

So what happens to a Brooks saddle when it is ridden in the rain or worse yet left out in it? Like none have ever experienced that phenomenom? Being from England and all that. Sorry old chap I can't ride today because I don't want to get my Brooks saddle wet.....Oops there's a water crossing, have to shoulder the olde bike because I don't want to get my Brooks wet

Leather has the ability to recover from being wet, the benefit that it gets from being wet is it becomes more pliable and after it drys, which it will do naturally in a dry environment, it retains somewhat its shape that it was moulded to when pliable. The key to breaking in a Brooks is getting your sit bone pockets established and wetting and riding the saddle accelerates that process.

Look at it this way, do you think that Brooks moulds their saddles into shape from dry leather to begin with or by impregnating it with Proofhide? I doubt it. Or else why would they tell the end user to apply Proofhide to it right away if it was already impregnated with it? I bet you that somewhere in the process water is involved and not cold water either.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

I agree that leather can recover from being wet if given the time to dry out.

However, what I am saying is that if the makers of the Brooks saddles recommend that Proofide is the only thing that you should put on your new saddle to waterproof the leather and to help it 'break in', does it not then make sense to follow their recommendations in order to achieve the best end result as far as the longevity of the product goes?

I have no problems at all with those owners who want to 'shortcut' the breaking-in period by soaking their saddle in warm water to soften the leather enough to make it more pliable, but if this were the best way to achieve the break in, do you not think that Brooks would recommend it to their customers??? 

I'm on my third Brooks saddle, and have just ordered a fourth. Each one of these were broken in by the recommended Brooks method.

However, if you or anyone else wants to use a different method to break in your Brooks, that is entirely up to you or the individual owner. 

I'll stick to what the makers of the saddle recommend. 


R.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

For more years than I care to remember I've broken in baseball gloves with the water method and I've never seen Rawlings, Spalding, Wison or any of the other glove manfacturers endorse it. Maybe it has to do with the fact that they all sell _glove oil_ ?
Proofide is a Brooks product isn't it?


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

The "quick and easy method" ... 

What you guys are missing out on here is the all the wonderful tradition and pride which comes in doing it "the right way"... not to mention the pain...although I never experienced much of this when breaking in my saddles.

Too many things nowdays are like this, people just take the short and easy way out of things, irrespective of whether it is right or not..the "instant gratification gotta have it right now" trend.

Where is the pride of ownership and the knowledge that you have a product which is hand made by leather craftsmen going back over a century....where does that come in? 

I look at my Brooks and think..yep, I broke that in myself over many miles and now it fits me like a glove. I remember all those miles with pride and joy. I wouldn't ever want to cheat myself out of all that sweat and enjoyment... 

Proofide? .. yes, I guess that Brooks make it and earn a small amount of profit from that sideline. However, when you consider how long a tin lasts, it wouldn't be much profit.

I guess that the "bottom line" of this discussion comes down to simply this:

Does soaking your new Brooks leather saddle in warm water and then riding on it whilst still soaking wet hurt the leather and cut down it's effective life to any noticeable extent?

If not, then this method of breaking in the saddle is a good one. 

On the other hand, if this method does cut down the leathers effective life, and / or makes the leather deteriorate in any way so as to reduce the lifetime or pliability / quality of the product, then we should stick to the makers recommendations.

What do you think?


R.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

I think you need to go here http://www.brookssaddles.com/brooksengland.html and take the factory tour to see the "hand" making process that Brooks uses. I especially like the one of the guy beating on one with a bfh. Some impressive tats on that one dudes arms also.

One more time. So if any Brooks saddle gets wet at any time the saddles life expectancy is in danger? Not in my experience and I am sure in many others. You dry the saddle out and apply some more proofhide as necessary and the saddles life goes on and on and on. The biggest enemy of a Brooks is to allow it to get too dry as it will start to crack and crackle rendering it worthless.

Another bad thing you can do to a Brooks saddle is to lend one out on an extended basis on a bike to someone that doesn't know enough to look after one. Which has happened to me twice now.  But won't again.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

Oh yeah, he's got some nice ink... been there and seen all that.. 

.......And your point is?

[ *edit* oooops...you added some more... ]

I guess that we shall have to agree to disagree. I tend to be a traditionalist and a romantic, which means that I value the traditional methods of breaking in the saddle with your butt over many miles.

I agree that there are other methods which may have merit like the water or oil immersion treatment, but these are not for me.

I prefer that which has been handed down from Brooks, from father to son over the years.

R.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

I think you make an excellent point. I want this saddle to last a lifetime, which Im sure it will if I do it right. My typical ride lasts only 10-12 miles, so how much pain can I expect? Probably not enough to stop riding the saddle before it is broken in.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

bikerboy said:


> I think you make an excellent point. I want this saddle to last a lifetime, which Im sure it will if I do it right. My typical ride lasts only 10-12 miles, so how much pain can I expect? Probably not enough to stop riding the saddle before it is broken in.


Some people experience very little to no pain at all, especially the heavier riders, as the leather seems to conform faster with more weight on it.. 

For others, it depends. The leather itself can vary slightly, and the amount of tension, thickness, grain, treatment, etc..etc all have a bearing on the amount of time it takes to break in.

Mine usually take about a month but I have had one break in over a couple of weeks once.

Generally, it depends on the amount of riding / saddle-time you put in. My last B.17 was very comfy right out of the box, but the one before that which I used on a hard tail bike took about 2 months to be really good.

Whichever method that you decide to use, I doubt that you will ever want to go back to the plastic seats that are now the trend. I love my Brooks.. 

R.


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## pisgahproductions (Jan 25, 2004)

*My saddle thanks me...*

My new, out of the box team pro was installed and used for about 200 miles without prrofide. However, once I put some on, top and bottom, it softened up quite a bit. There are all sorts of other ways to break the saddle in, but I just went, more or less, with the brooks reccommended way. 
I also have a 20+ year old saddle that had lots of cracks. I applied two or three coats and it looks and feels much better now.
Also, remember that Brooks are made in England. Does it rain in England? oh yeah.
~E


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

I weigh 240, so I guess that should help me break this saddle in a little faster. I know this saddle is going to look sweet on my early 80s Cinelli road bike with mustache bars. If this ends up being as comfortable as everybody says, I may have to suck it up and put one of these on my new full suspension bike as well. I guess there's no reason that old world and new school can't harmonize, right?


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## TruckeeLocal (Mar 5, 2002)

*My Brooks*



bikerboy said:


> I weigh 240, so I guess that should help me break this saddle in a little faster. I know this saddle is going to look sweet on my early 80s Cinelli road bike with mustache bars. If this ends up being as comfortable as everybody says, I may have to suck it up and put one of these on my new full suspension bike as well. I guess there's no reason that old world and new school can't harmonize, right?


Hey I've got a Brooks Team-Pro on my FS Ellsworth - to hell with what folks think. And I've got a B17 on my hardtail. Note that the B17 seems to break in easier than the Team-Pro. By the way I've lived in England and Belgium and can confirm that it rains there and that Brooks saddles do not turn to mush in the damp climates. I'd also reiterate something posted here earlier - Brooks has been making saddles for way more than a century now. I figure they know the best way to treat their products and I follow their suggestions, at least conceptually. Who knows how they make money given that their products, both the saddles and the little tin of proofide, last so long


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

bikerboy said:


> I weigh 240, so I guess that should help me break this saddle in a little faster. I know this saddle is going to look sweet on my early 80s Cinelli road bike with mustache bars. If this ends up being as comfortable as everybody says, I may have to suck it up and put one of these on my new full suspension bike as well. I guess there's no reason that old world and new school can't harmonize, right?


 No reason at all, actually..


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## datako (Aug 27, 2004)

*One word for leather treatment*

Lanolin.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Are those On-One Mary bars? How do you like them? What do you like about them?


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

datako said:


> Lanolin.


Proofide ingredients: Tallow, Cod oil, Vegetable oil, Parafin wax, Beeswax, Citronella oil.

R.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

bikerboy said:


> Are those On-One Mary bars? How do you like them? What do you like about them?


 Yes, they are On One Mary bars which I am currently testing on the VT.

Read my review here..

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=100572

So far, I like Mary a lot.

R.


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## the_dude (Jun 18, 2004)

quick question aout your seat angle, rainman. i've noticed oodles of folks posting pics of their bike setup, and it always intrigues me when i see a saddle angled down, such as yours. the bike on the homepage of brooks also shows the saddle sloped downward, though much more so. what's the reasoning behind that setup? in my experience, i need the nose angled just slightly up. if it's angled down, even just a bit, i feel like all my weight is sliding toward the front end. i'm not knocking yours or anyone else's setup, i'm just curious. 

the_dude


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

I started off with my Brooks set level [horizontal] and found that when I was breaking it in there was some pressure on my 'taint' which is not a good thing for men. It can cause your ability to produce children to be impaired.. 

SO I tilted it down gradually, a quarter of a degree or so at a time, [Thomson seatpost micro adjustment lets you do this] until it felt comfy and there was no pressure or discomfort and all my weight was on my sit-bones. [ That saddle angle you see in the pic is slightly exaggerated by the sloping ground.]

[ Usually though, the very downwards tilted front only applies to road racing type bicycle saddles where the rider is down on the bottom part of the curved bars a lot, and is leaning forward a lot more than mountain bikers do in order to decrease wind resistance.]

Of course, saddle settings are also affected by the height of your bars and how you prefer to ride..etc..etc.. That particular setup in the pics is very comfortable for me.

I have found that with the On One Mary bars I tend to sit slightly more upright than with the Easton Monkey Lite, but I havn't adjusted the saddle angle because I may go back to the low rise bars if the Mary doesn't suit my riding.

So far though, the Mary bars and the Brooks are getting along very well together.. 

R.


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## the_dude (Jun 18, 2004)

Rainman said:


> I started off with my Brooks set level [horizontal] and found that when I was breaking it in there was some pressure on my 'taint' which is not a good thing for men. It can cause your ability to produce children to be impaired..


i'm currently still in the 'break-in' phase of my B-17, and i'm definately feeling the taint pain. i went out for a 50 miler on memorial day (cross bike), and i packed an extra seat just in case the pain became intolerable. i started with the brooks level, but that wasn't happenin', so i stopped and adjusted it slightly downward. taint pressure dissapeared, but now i felt like i was putting all my weight on the bars. so around mile 25, i pulled over and swapped saddles. problem solved. i guess i'll just have to take the brooks on shorter rides until she's broken in. 

the_dude


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

Good idea on the shorter rides, imo. 

I'm currently breaking in a new Brooks myself, an antique brown colour Champion Special with the Ti rails.


R.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Ran across Brandt's thoughts on Brooks*

...saddles recently. I like my B-17 _but what I like about it_ is that it hasn't broken in and developed sit bone pockets that would produce a prostate and ass irritating center elevation.

Steven Marks writes: 
> Does anyone still ride Brooks saddles? I have seen several articles saying 
> that leather saddles, once broken in of course, are the most comfortable. > Now that I am looking for a new saddle for an old road bike, I am wondering. 
> Does anyone ride a leather saddle and are they more comfortable than 
> some of the new gel type saddles. The Brooks Ti saddle doesn't seem 
> to be quite as serious a weight penalty as the others.

You might just as well write to the recumbent newsgroup asking whether recumbents are better than upright bikes. Heavy leather saddles that take forever to break in and turn into ass-hatchets when ridden in the rain are a religion. Not to worry, the faithful will respond en masse. Before taking any of this on face value, you ought to ask yourself whether people race on them. I get the impression its addictive because people don't seem to break away from the suffering. In the old days, racers in the Tour de France took their saddles off at night so they could not be stolen. The loss of a broken in saddle being an irreplcaeable item and could mean the end of the race, new ones being so hard to condition. I rode them for many years and still have a couple in my historic bin. It was a chore. Jobst Brandt <[email protected]>

http://yarchive.net/bike/leather_saddles.html


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## Pipboy2000 (Apr 18, 2005)

My bike with a Brooks Swift. It was honey brown in the beginning but the colour will change to a more antique brown-style when applying grease to the saddle.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

Nice looking seat..and a nice bike as well.. 


R.


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## tjwhite (Aug 14, 2015)

Rainman said:


> There are several ways to "break in" a Brooks saddle.... BUT .... there is only ONE that is recommended by the makers of the saddles.
> 
> That is, to apply a coating of Proofide to the top and bottom of the saddle when new, and then ride it.
> 
> ...


Per Brooks website BROOKS ENGLAND LTD. | FAQS | SADDLE_MAINTENANCE 
*
Q. **How do I break in my saddle?*A. The best way to break in your new saddle is to ride it frequently. Like a new pair of quality leather boots, a leather saddle may be uncomfortable for some at the outset; but like a good pair of boots, once broken in, they will, with proper care, provide the owner with decades of use.

Also:
"The primary function of Brooks Proofide is to nourish the leather to keep it supple and to prevent it from drying out with age."


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Hmmm, first post, and you pull a 10 year old thread up to zombify with nothing personal to add?

Welcome aboard, but do know, really, it's best to have something to say, and not jut post a link.....


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## Woodpuppy (May 10, 2014)

I like necroposts. Sometimes fun to bring up old s... And I just got a flyer, which apparently doesn't require breaking in. I LOVE this thing. Never would have considered one back "in the day" as they are so heavy. But as an out of shape father of four my behind thanks me for the springage!


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