# would you wear these?



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

I understand what they are trying to do by moving the bib straps, maybe it's the attempt at coy marketing that I find annoying...

https://www.cbike.com/assos_womens_clothing.htm










Do you think this sizing is realistic? From a different part of the page, about some shorts:


> The above model is wearing a Size Medium. She is 5'8" tall, weighs 115 lbs, and usually wears a US size 4.


size 4 a medium? What planet are these Assos people from ????   

formica


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## Neen (Sep 27, 2004)

I think a size 4 is like an extra extra small! Sheesh! I wear an 8 and that translates to an XL in bike shorts!


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

I don't think my figure is good enough for it!


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## brg (Sep 7, 2004)

*nope - i wouldn't wear them*

sizing is definitely off. I consider 4 to 6 a small and 0 to 2 is extra small in my book.


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## Haroow (Mar 10, 2004)

*hmmm*

I'm a guy of course, They look kinda cool kinda sexy..., though I wonder about the center strap and whether it will cause irritation on the inside of the breast-es'.. for those that are more endowed/punished/blessed ( on how you feel about it) than model shown. Or even chafe the area around the outside section of the rib cage...

My wife would like to get bibs, if they were cut for women and hence and women of larger sizes.. It seemed pretty limited on sizes though the material is similar to the ones I purchased lately..

.Is does not seem though a support bra is practical because of the back of the tights seems to have a large mesh panel for breath-ability .. If anybody gets a pair let us know how they work... I'm also not sure about removable chamois???


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## SuperNewb (Mar 6, 2004)

Im sure it would look good on my gf but after seeing the price...  
But I think I'll stick to the reg lycra shorts for her and the cheap 1 use lingerie pieces from the online stores


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

It doesnt really look all the great. Looks like something from Speedo or something. Im not sure why the marketing would make anyone mad, I mean, they have been doing the same thing forever, no surprise, right? They couldnt sell something unless they advertised something people want to look at. I know, it's not right, but what can you do? To me, she doesnt look all that hot anyway.


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## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

Cold weather wear huh? If I were 115 pounds I would have to wear 2 or 3 of them to keep me warm because I'd be just skin & bones. 
Oh, and I'd wear a shirt  

Only is crazy model world is a size 4 a medium.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

Neen said:


> I think a size 4 is like an extra extra small! Sheesh! I wear an 8 and that translates to an XL in bike shorts!


no! a size 4 is a small. an XS is size 0-2. i hate it when companies "up-size" XS so that people who don't want to admit that they're not an extra small can fit into them. (btw, not trying to insinuate that neen is saying that she doesn't want to admit her size).

on the other hand, size M = size 4 is just wrong. but then again so is being 5'8" and 115 lbs. 

rt

ps - no i wouldn't wear those. just trying to imagine how one would get them off at a pee break makes my brain hurt. i'll just stick to my xs shorts, thanks.


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

Looks like overalls put on backwards.

I don't have a burning need for bibs, but those look doable.

4 as a medium? 5'8" and 115lbs? Yes, this is the world of make-believe-barbie-model-world. Not for real, regular women.

Mary Ann


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## Dirtygrl (Jun 28, 2005)

*You have to admit*

That the shorts they make are phat~! Especially if someone else was paying for them. I cringe at the thought of paying over $100 for shorts.


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## konahottie_311 (May 26, 2005)

*Lol*

so thats a Medium hey..too funny and no i dont think i would wear those anyway. Kind of like when I bought my Roach FR pants and had to buy a Large..right 5'4 135/125 (depending on how far into summer we are and the weather)...now I am not a super slender but I would never consider my self a lg. and I would never want to be as skinny as the Model.5'8 and 115 is just wrong.It seems a little thin to me. I love to eat and may not like the extra 10lbs I carry but if it wont' come off due to excersice then it stays on....yummmy food rules


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*I like this image.*

The size is matched for her length, not her width or weight. I expect that a variety of figures at 5 8 would fit this length. Her disposition is very elegant and takes advantage of the stitch, coloration and the new central strap technology. As for covering her breasts there really aren't many methods that might have as nice an aesthetic. Consider digital obliteration of nipples, flesh colored pasties and such. The traditional bra, even in it's most minimal expression, would conflict with the central strap and make a cross; bad design for an ad. I'm sure she was picked for her breast size out of this sort of consideration; one would not want her hands to be.....overwhelmed.
Such form fitting clothing is by nature very revealing and will borrow from the years of the more public lingerie and foundation images for icons. These archtypes constantly tread the interphase between modesty, function, and revealing what many in the public consider essential beauty of the feminine form without slipping into the erotic.
There is nothing coy about this image. Her form IS willowy and she IS young yet she stands with power and dignity without that vacuous gaze one can see in other types of clothing marketing. That she is a beauty, in the sense of professional model beauty, is only par for the course. That in itself can draw a comment or two. That it feeds into the impossible-to-attain body type which vexes women and their self image that we have worked hard to confront in an effort to validate what real women are about cannot be denied.
The entire Assos page works very hard to creat it's style, excitement and action to attract and direct the eye. The color palate serves to support that while the fabric finish is soft and feminine. The only image which fails that standard is the red short sleeve jersey where the model is plainly flat footed and it is totally uninteresting.
Catalogue Photography can be weird, dippy, smarmy or over the top. Fashion is a funny thing and seldom extends very far into niche sports advertising. It is hard to make a piece of fabric tell a story. I have marveled at the beautiful women who model for our more pedestrian clothing manufacturers (PI, Perf, Sug, etc.) They tend to be a bit more home spun and girl next door, fuller figured types who do little to make the clothes say anything but stand there with them on. That has less to do with body type than talent or design/display intentions. Assos is far more interesting as the women express a talent for motion vital to two dimensional imaging. It must be admitted that not all of the images succeed and some can look contrived but is still much more interesting to me.
I recently had an opportunity to view a fine photographer's images of pro and semi-pro women road racers on the course and the best images, for me, had many of these qualities. They revealed something spectacular about women and aggression and many were breathtaking. It made me think about group pictures or pics of the girls at the starting line; healthy, ready, full of life. Yet they cannot compare to a woman in motion.

Or not.


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## MTNgirl (Jul 20, 2004)

*Ahem...*

I for one find the advertising masochistic and in poor taste. Who exactly are they marketing to anyway? My guess is either men or women who want to look like the knock-kneed uber-waif in the pic. This burns me because as an athlete I want to see strong, realistic women, possibly even ON A BIKE (omg!).

I would like a pair of bibs, but would not opt for the tights/boob-bisection variety. I can't stand the way the women are bending with their a**es toward the camera. In my opinion, advertising like that (especially when womens faces aren't in the pics, only body parts) is objectifying to women.

I'm sure there are plenty who will disagree, but I want to buy from a company that represents itself with real female athletes, possibly even ones being active and enjoying themselves, not a company that has a focus in snaring the male gaze.

Sex sells, but I'm just not buying it.

And BTW, I'm one sexy lady


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

MTNgirl said:


> I for one find the advertising masochistic and in poor taste. Who exactly are they marketing to anyway? My guess is either men or women who want to look like the knock-kneed uber-waif in the pic. This burns me because as an athlete I want to see strong, realistic women, possibly even ON A BIKE (omg!).
> 
> I would like a pair of bibs, but would not opt for the tights/boob-bisection variety. I can't stand the way the women are bending with their a**es toward the camera. In my opinion, advertising like that (especially when womens faces aren't in the pics, only body parts) is objectifying to women.
> 
> ...


Say whats on your mind...


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## Haroow (Mar 10, 2004)

MTNgirl said:


> I for one find the advertising masochistic and in poor taste. Who exactly are they marketing to anyway? My guess is either men or women who want to look like the knock-kneed uber-waif in the pic. This burns me because as an athlete I want to see strong, realistic women, possibly even ON A BIKE (omg!).
> 
> I would like a pair of bibs, but would not opt for the tights/boob-bisection variety. I can't stand the way the women are bending with their a**es toward the camera. In my opinion, advertising like that (especially when womens faces aren't in the pics, only body parts) is objectifying to women.
> 
> ...


Your Correct; notice too, that from my view that her legs arent as shapely as any roadie nor MTBing female....no defintion no strength in the lower extremites...She is the Model...cut and paste...a 1% as my old biology professor says...

Doesn't one of the people in this lounge make clothing....How hard would it be to get a bib made for woman say custom fit.. Not for Xmas but for spring maybe....Something that is very breathable up front but yet supportive, say Eschelor fabric...I don't have any clue how it would be made....


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## aword4you (Jul 25, 2005)

The bottom half looks all right, but the top half seems impractical to me. I'd think if you were going to make bibs for women that you'd at least put in something like a sports bra? I don't ride without one, but maybe that's just me.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

MTNgirl, check out the Title 9 catalogs. I get them at least once a month, and most of the models are real women doing their favorite things. I hate when they re-use the same women constantly, but I respect the approach.

Let's face it, most female athletes don't look like Maria Sharapova (whatever her name is) or Anna Kournikova or that faceless stringbean in the bib. MTB especially requires muscles and a certain passionate attitude that usually includes a hearty appetite. 

Women who subsist on an extreme low-carb diet don't usually have much passion for life


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## konahottie_311 (May 26, 2005)

aword4you said:


> The bottom half looks all right, but the top half seems impractical to me. I'd think if you were going to make bibs for women that you'd at least put in something like a sports bra? I don't ride without one, but maybe that's just me.


Yeah if it came with a sports bra then maybe i would wear one as well...that would make far more sence.


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## knobbyknees (Dec 30, 2004)

formica said:


> Do you think this sizing is realistic? From a different part of the page, about some shorts:
> 
> size 4 a medium? What planet are these Assos people from ????
> formica


Interesting. It looks like Assos has been reading this forum and has revised their webpage. The model now weighs 125 and wears a size 6. Really?

I would NEVER wear these. Being an XL, I don't want to wear a cleavage enhancer. Clearly these are not made for me. It is nearly impossible to find clothes I find comfortable or attractive. The hardest part about riding my bike is psyching myself up to put on my riding clothes. And in winter, I'd LOVE bib tights so I could cover my knees without an extra waistband. It aint gonna happen.

<sarcasm> Everybody knows big girls don't exercise or need clothes that fit, and there are hardly any of us in America these days, with the anorexia epidemic that's sweeping the nation. </sarcasm>

Patty


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## kept man (Jan 13, 2004)

There are some quite good non-silly women's bib shorts out there. They are to be a Christmas present for Mrs. Kept, once we find the set best suited.

The ones we've seen fit like rowing race-outfits (affectionately - and ironically in the face of those bibs above - referred to as "sex suits" around here).

I amazed at the restraint (or lack of snark) y'all have shown ... I thought for sure by now there'd be at least one "you bet they're a bunch of Assos!" about this company. It just works so well!


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Berkeley Mike said:


> The size is matched for her length, not her width or weight.


In particular, bike companies are some of the worst offenders for not having consistent or realistic sizing. As someone who works IN the outdoors clothing industry, sizing especially for stretch items is based on width AND length. I tell you this- Assos saying medium short is for a size 4 is about the most laughable thing I've read on the internet in days.

Be that what it is, the whole point of a center strap bib for women would be to eliminate the problem of boobage/strap conflicts. Either the straps are causing nipple irritation, or smooshing the boobs, or if you have bigger boobs, the straps always go over to one side. So - why not show a woman with a shirt on, with actual breasts, happily modelling that she's experiencing none of the above problems? Why show a bare chested, flat chested gal instead? And not coyly covering her breasts... I mean jeez, when men model skin suits they don't coyly cover their "package'. I'm sorry Mike I know you really support women in sports but I think you missed it on this one.

compare and contrast:









or:


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

knobbyknees said:


> Interesting. It looks like Assos has been reading this forum and has revised their webpage. The model now weighs 125 and wears a size 6. Really?


LOL, I wouldn't be surprised...every women's cycling board that I frequent is having similar discussions about the site right now. and NONE of them are "oh, that is so great I think I'll run out and spend $289 right now!!".. looks like they missed it with target market. I got the links off a "humor" thread. 
formica


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Can no one see*

That the upper shot is more dynamic than the lower in Formica's sample? The lighting is better, the stance is more dramatic. There is some romance or something there. The guy in the skinsuit looks like some dweeb stanting in front of his mom in the bunny suit her sister worked hard to make for him at Christmas.That is really the difference I was talking about. As for real cyclist bodies, the roadie upper body is seldom like the guy in the red; there is a great ad take off on that with body builders. 
I just had two of my girls return bib shorts to me because they just didn't work with their bodies. Modeling this center strap outfit over a shirt of some sort would look as plain stupid as those old torpedo bras. Ugh. Are you kidding me!?
As to sizing: why is that that the average guy (medium) is about 6 ft tall but takes a large, shirt/bike/you name it? That's rags, kids, deal with it.
Maybe you gals are just no-nonsense. Practicality is rampant in cycling, and for good reasons, but that doesn't mean that style and passion has to fall by the wayside. We all want to look our best with what god gave us and, frankly, wouldn't mind looking a little better. If I wore that red bib thing the staps would go straight and flat down my chest and uninterrupted down to my pot belly but I'm not gonna dish the model dude.

I'm gonna go do some sit-ups and maybe shave before my wife gets home.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

*bad idea...*



konahottie_311 said:


> Yeah if it came with a sports bra then maybe i would wear one as well...that would make far more sence.


how would you get those bibs off to pee in the woods???

maybe i'm just obsessed with this issue (since this is the 2nd time in this thread that i've mentioned it. hmmm....) but really, when i'm doing long rides and i'm well hydrated, nature will call. it's hard enough to run off to find a tree to squat behind on a group road ride and make it back to the group dressed before they're all rolling out without throwing in having to strip off all my clothing just to pull my shorts down. add an attached sports bra into the mix and suddenly you're squatting in the woods buck-nekkid!

something to think about.

rt


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

*more compare and contrast*

here's a bib short image from team estrogen, a site that truly caters to women riders... this gal even looks like she might get dirty once in a while.









or even :









or even:


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

Thought number one was... "how does the sports bra fit into the equation?" Personally I never ride without one, and I'm not exactly well-endowed, I just find it more comfortable to ride with certain jiggly bits restrained. Would you wear it underneath, or over the top, or what? 

My second thought was "how is 5'8" a medium?" I seem to remember someone posting a few weeks back about the average height of US women being 5'4", and the world average being 5'2". At 5'8" the model should be wearing a large for her height, but probably a small or medium for her weight. This means that she is out of proportion compared to the average, so I have to wonder how these bibs would fit a 'normal' person if they are modelled on her. I have visions of me at 5'3" and 120lbs either being constricted to death in bibs that fit my height, or having wrinkles in the ankles in bibs that allow me to breathe.

I'm sure they're comfy and all (or they ought to be at the price they want!), but bibs seem pretty impractical for women. The ones further down on the page that incorporate a proper top look more comfortable, but I agree with *rt* on the pee issue. It's bad enough exposing your bottom half to take a leak, but stripping off completely... I just wouldn't feel comfortable doing that.

- Jen.


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## pacman (Jan 16, 2004)

*T.I.C. review*

A lot of rain in NorCal?


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## konahottie_311 (May 26, 2005)

formica said:


> LOL, I wouldn't be surprised...every women's cycling board that I frequent is having similar discussions about the site right now. and NONE of them are "oh, that is so great I think I'll run out and spend $289 right now!!".. looks like they missed it with target market. I got the links off a "humor" thread.
> formica


The above model is wearing a Size Medium. She is 5'8" tall, weighs 115 lbs, and usually wears a US size 4.......Is still there it is just further down...lol yeah right.Medium my a$$.


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## trailgirl (Oct 25, 2005)

I would wear it if I didn't have to worry about taking it off in a hurry for a bathroom break. I think that center strap would have to go under a sports bra. It's also quite expensive, but I do like the one-piece suit one listing below on their website. That one is also a bit much money for me, though..


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*59, 60, 61, enough.*



formica said:


> here's a bib short image from team estrogen, a site that truly caters to women riders... this gal even looks like she might get dirty once in a while.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm gonna have to work pretty hard.
Clearly we have very different taste. The Team E girl is gorgeous and believeable but, christ on a crutch what is wrong with standing up straight and putting some interest in the lighting, losing the underwear lines, spending a moment with here hair; she has great hair. She has great skin. Great eyes and teeth. They really missed her shoulders in the front shot but in the back you get a great sense of how statuesque she is. The photo does her no justice. They also need to use a longer lens. I think it is a mistake to not appreciate how much beauty this girl brings to the shot and present her as "all you have to do" or just the average mtb girl. She is anything but that.
The black bib cutout is badly done and makes the garment look like trash but is nicely lit. Notice the nice modeling at the tummy and hip.
The Blue, White and Red garment is done very nicely, the light is beautiful. I would much rather see the woman in the garment, though; fantastic figure.
What it comes down to is I see nothing wrong with doing this sort of thing right. The Assos image had much to recommend it. The images you provide has SOME nice things about them but none of them touch the Assos image for power.
I think a killer image would have the girl from the Red, Blue, and White garment (only visible) in the single strap Assos garment and the Assos photographer, and the Team E girls warmth.
I've done a bit of this in my day. Casual and believable doesn't mean it has to be bad but most often, it is. Amature, or "real people" as we call them, bring much to the shoot and it is a matter of believing that and making use of it. It is a matter of understanding what real beauty is about and revealing it. It is a matter of guiding people of character to express grace, beauty, and power. You have to do more than say "here, put this on and stand there."

I'm gonna do more crunches.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

OMG - VPL!!!!

Mike, you are so right in that is unforgivable in a bike model.


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## trailgirl (Oct 25, 2005)

My head is spinning from that analysis of photographic lighting techniques.
The size "medium" for a woman 5'8" seems wacked to me, but Assos is from Switzerland so are they that much taller than us over there? I probably weigh 5 pounds more than she does, but I'm 4" shorter. Oh well.
It's funny the things we nitpick and worry about over clothing. My poor roomie (the one who introduced me to MTBR) made the mistake of defending spandex shorts on the downhill forum and now he's being grilled over there. One guy even posted a semi-porn pic of a woman in spandex and later that same guy said that hated him  (don't they have moderators over there?)
All-in-all we are lucky to be women. Sorry for the OT rant


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

trailgirl said:


> My head is spinning from that analysis of photographic lighting techniques.


I think it's the classic mars/venus thing. Mike's analyzing the photographs, and the women are thinking "that girl is underfed and has never been on a bike!!"



trailgirl said:


> The size "medium" for a woman 5'8" seems wacked to me, but Assos is from Switzerland so are they that much taller than us over there? I probably weigh 5 pounds more than she does, but I'm 4" shorter. Oh well.
> It's funny the things we nitpick and worry about over clothing. My poor roomie (the one who introduced me to MTBR) made the mistake of defending spandex shorts on the downhill forum and now he's being grilled over there. One guy even posted a semi-porn pic of a woman in spandex and later that same guy said that hated him  (don't they have moderators over there?)
> All-in-all we are lucky to be women. Sorry for the OT rant


heh heh as the WL goes, I think you are pretty OT. The DH board has a whole bunch of moderators but I think they've got their hands pretty fulll....


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*To answer Formica's original question*

as I was so rudely led astray.
No.


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## cRasHmAstER (Jan 26, 2004)

*Looks more comfortable*

than the dresses we were wearing at 24 hrs. 

CrAzY aAndY


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## Neen (Sep 27, 2004)

Christine said:


> . MTB especially requires muscles and a certain passionate attitude that usually includes a hearty appetite.
> 
> Women who subsist on an extreme low-carb diet don't usually have much passion for life


YOU SAID IT, SISTER!!


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## dompedro3 (Jan 26, 2004)

Berkeley Mike said:


> I'm gonna have to work pretty hard.
> Clearly we have very different taste. The Team E girl is gorgeous and believeable but, christ on a crutch what is wrong with standing up straight and putting some interest in the lighting, losing the underwear lines, spending a moment with here hair; she has great hair. She has great skin. Great eyes and teeth. They really missed her shoulders in the front shot but in the back you get a great sense of how statuesque she is. The photo does her no justice. They also need to use a longer lens. I think it is a mistake to not appreciate how much beauty this girl brings to the shot and present her as "all you have to do" or just the average mtb girl. She is anything but that.
> The black bib cutout is badly done and makes the garment look like trash but is nicely lit. Notice the nice modeling at the tummy and hip.
> The Blue, White and Red garment is done very nicely, the light is beautiful. I would much rather see the woman in the garment, though; fantastic figure.
> ...


funny you should mentio the suit at the bottom. I've been a swimmer my entire life and would find it quite funny to see the swimsuit catalogs showing "swimmers" modelling their suits, but the models were obviously not swimmers, then the catalogs started using famous swimmrs and the difference was pretty obvious, swimmers tend to have some pretty obvious characteristics:
women tend to have wider shoulders and developed lats
men tend to have very developed shoulders and lats as well and very pronounced abs, but barrel chests, ie: not defined pecs generally. Also, biceps are not large because biceps are not used much in swimming, instead triceps...

hair is usually fried, from being in pools for 2+hrs 11 times a week and swimmers from states like california and Florida will have goggle tan lines.

I always laughed at the models, and am just now starting to see that those bicycle models come from the same stock, not very realistic bodies for someone who would spend hrs on a bike every week.


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## Missle (Nov 28, 2005)

*So Glad!*

I must say I'm so glad I'm not the only woman who thinks (most of ) the models in the 'mainstream' catalogs are not real cyclists! And probably the men either! Not a single spec of dirt on them and MAKE UP? I'm sure that Mike guy will say that dirt doesn't sell, but I guess I come from the reality school of thought. Show me someone who rides and then I'll take the picture serioulsy and possibly contemplate the purchase of the product. For now I'll use what works for me, usually men's jerseys, (broad shoulders/long back- don't worry I still look like a girl! And if I don't who the f cares, I'm riding!!). Most of the time club and team riders have to wear mens clothing anyway. Unless they happen to get enough women to fill an order. (From my experience anyway.) As for the bibs...

YEAH RIGHT! AND HOW ABOUT THE SPACE GIRL BOOB JACKET IN THE SAME CATALOG?

Anyways, Kudos if you're rich and thin. I'll stick to my mountian-bike lifestyle!


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

formica said:


> compare and contrast:


I'm amazed that they didn't pad this guys package, actually. He's looking like Michelangelo's David there.


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

*Would you wear this?*

I would. Who is she? I assume she rides, but how could she, she is not dirty at all, and she has make up on.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Dom, the Swimmer, makes a great point and provides a model.*

As a serious swimmer you have a certain cirteria for your gear and that determines how you spend your money. Using that model how many serious swimmers are out there? High School, Clubs, colleges, let's say about half a million in the US, and that is generous. How many people wear bathing suits? How many not so serious swimmers out there who will buy the real swim stuff?
Did the models in the catalogues keep serious swimmers from buying the gear? No. While you guys were still chuckling you were filling out orderblanks. Did Speedo know what they were doing? Absoutely. These days do they use "real" swimmers? Does that reflect or effect their success in the modern market? Does it reflect the place of health and athleticism. Of course it does. Seen a "real" Collegiate or Olympic swimmer lately? Think beautiful straight teeth, tall, broad shoulders, full smooth muscles, nice tan, crappy hair (no one is perfect). Can you say drop dead gorgeous? Pretty daunting for us average guys. Have you seen me in a Speedo since my college days? God I hope not. See: more crunches.
Serious cyclists are practical and no nonsense, too. Would their be some caveat against Allison or Paola or Marla modeling these togs because they weren't the average cyclist? No. Would they have the inate talent to model? I bet they would. Would they use some hack photographer or one of the guys from shipping to shoot them? No. Would there be make-up. Yes. Would the average (not so serious) cyclist know who in blazes they were without a banner saying World Women's XC Champion? I doubt it. Would they do it? I doubt it; at least not without a lot of money or some fantastic philosophical/political principle involved. 
A work including Average Mountain Biking Girls in bike clothes would only sell (there is the key word) at the lowest of grass roots levels as something Camp or Political or local but could never touch the nude older women and their Calendar in Britain. When I look at the girls on my team I think they are stunning but they could never sell bike clothes in a catalogue. So who do you use? The reality is that this skinny girl in the monostrap outifit, if she is worth her salt as a professional model, puts more than her share of time in the gym andmore than many of us do on a bike. The photographer and the people who hired her at least show some respect for the disiciplin of imaging, design , and communication. The key is in creating interest. So back to Assos. Your post has exposed their product line, potientially, to hundreds more people who may never have heard of them. Bullsye.
Crazy like a fox.

So....what happens if the mono strap thing really works? 
And, exactly how do you show something intimately proximate to an aspect of the female form that isn't supposed to be seen by the general public that has any sense of the aesthetic? Last time I heard we weren't supposed to see what is under a women's jersey or through a woman's jersey unless it is one of those Spring Break videos. One of our High School Clubs bought jerseys which violated that rule when the rain started. The generousity of a parent's understanding carried us through this as these were "our children" but there were 175 teenage boys to consider. Jackets were found, a chuckle was had; a nervous chuckle but a chuckle none the less.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

How ironic that most women instinctively are having the what is evidently the WRONG REACTION to that ad. Thanks for setting us straight. Next time I will try and feel differently.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*The feeling is the power in the whole process.*



Impy said:


> How ironic that most women instinctively are having the what is evidently the WRONG REACTION to that ad. Thanks for setting us straight. Next time I will try and feel differently.


There is no way I will ever argue with someone about their emotional reaction. That is the power of imaging. It is at the root of ones involvement with the image. It grabbed you at a very primitive level. Images can scoot right past intellect and into your gut and that can be what colors the entire experience. Hence your reaction and there is nothing wrong with your reaction. How could there be? I guess I wonder that the emotional reaction needs to be the end of the story. I understand the response and then wonder; okay now what? 
What I am arguing is that the model, talent and design approach works very well for many reasons. I am also suggesting that no one from the camp who objects to the model who may not even ride a bike has come up with any useful and successful alternatives. Team E is a cottege industry at best and if it manages to get to the point of Assos you can bet that the images will have to change. The curious thing is that though the functionality of the clothes may not change the marketing will. When I have bought from Team E it was based upon a specific need and I may have bought from them in spite of their bad photos.
It may be that the Assos approach doesn't work for you. I absolutely hate being marketed to or spun. Overt seduction is insulting and pathetic. It drives me nuts. I have bought nothing from Assos because of it's marketing. I buy it because the guys I ride with love their shorts at mile 80. 
So does the question in this thread really end up being: would you wear this, considering the model isn't even a bike rider, she looks too thin and rich and young and pretty? And that gets to a more primary question about how we measure up to such a standard and what we do to manage those answers.
As I look at this thread I was interested to see if this mono-strap design works. Then I reacted to the immediate panning of the model and the method. As you can see I have a bit more sympathetic view to this sort of work; the world is small enough.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

what I would like to see... why can't they show a model with some sort of athletic build, doesn't have to be a biker, with boobs, wearing those bibs over a nice plain jersey that doesn't show through or detract from the photo; showing the bibs as they are meant to be worn. She would have some boobs so that viewers can see that the design is meant to be a solution to the age old boob/strap problem. Obviously, you wear bibs over jerseys, even we non road types know that. (otherwise you'd never get out of it to pee)

And in my ideal world, it would not be a "if you give me some crack I'll show you my breasts" kind of pose. My head still hurts every time I look at that picture. 

formica


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## scubaklook (Apr 20, 2005)

I would have liked to at least seen a second pic of how a sports bra is supposed to work with that thing. Bra on top means 2 layers on your back rubbing around then a shirt on top of that, bra under and that strap is gonna flatten the front of the bra. I dont see the practicality in this design. But maybe I am not appreciating the artistic aspect enough.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Practicality I get!*

Even bibs meet in the back and would encounter a sports bra but directly over your breasts. As I said I have girls on my club who returned bibs because they didn't work for that reason. The mono strap would encounter a sports bra, just as the bibs, but between the breasts which might be less of a problem. As for wearing it under a jersey, none of the women I know wear a jersey under bibs. Frankly, how they pee is one of the great mysteries of the universe.
Do you have to be heavily muscled or husky to be athletic? As a male I fought this battle all through my sports career because coaches just wanted big guys. I was "skinny." I was pretty fortunate to be an excellent athlete and accustomed to dealing with this prejudice and just did my talking on the court, on the mound, or in the pool.It helped that friends with whom I had wcompeted spoke for me. My musculature, in spite of my thousands of miles of riding, just does not produce those really great cycling legs on the guys behind me. So I don't buy that this women is not athletic for a moment.
Some of our most spectacular young women riders have a slight build though I have podium shots of 5, um, thicker girls. I am not sure why that is but have a hunch that as the sport developes a more general appeal and expands its numbers that the body type will generalize a bit more. Now the more slight athletic girls come from Soccer, Basketball and Cross Country. Make no mistake about it, though, they're athletic. I still don't know where mountain biking women come from. Perhaps the edges, which is what makes them so special.


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## Joe Dirt (Nov 20, 2005)

Berkeley Mike said:


> Even bibs meet in the back and would encounter a sports bra but directly over your breasts. As I said I have girls on my club who returned bibs because they didn't work for that reason. The mono strap would encounter a sports bra, just as the bibs, but between the breasts which might be less of a problem. As for wearing it under a jersey, none of the women I know wear a jersey under bibs. Frankly, how they pee is one of the great mysteries of the universe.
> Do you have to be heavily muscled or husky to be athletic? As a male I fought this battle all through my sports career because coaches just wanted big guys. I was "skinny." I was pretty fortunate to be an excellent athlete and accustomed to dealing with this prejudice and just did my talking on the court, on the mound, or in the pool.It helped that friends with whom I had wcompeted spoke for me. My musculature, in spite of my thousands of miles of riding, just does not produce those really great cycling legs on the guys behind me. So I don't buy that this women is not athletic for a moment.
> Some of our most spectacular young women riders have a slight build though I have podium shots of 5, um, thicker girls. I am not sure why that is but have a hunch that as the sport developes a more general appeal and expands its numbers that the body type will generalize a bit more. Now the more slight athletic girls come from Soccer, Basketball and Cross Country. Make no mistake about it, though, they're athletic. I still don't know where mountain biking women come from. Perhaps the edges, which is what makes them so special.


Mike,
I think mountian bikers, like in most other sports come in all shapes and sizes. Piont being, you can look at a guy or girl who may be chubby or not so athletic looking and he or she will outclimb everyone or have insane bike skills. It also goes with what they look like, just because a women is pretty doesnt mean she cannot ride. I think this is a "judging the book by it's cover" thing, you really cannot do that, it isnt fair to anyone. The Aussie girl in the mtb magazine (Nikki something), she is cute, thin (legs), and if you look at any photo of her, out of the blue you wouldnt say "she has a mtber's build". Ok, here is another way to look at it. I wear underwear, most men do, but damn it, all those guys in underwear ads have ripped abs, always have a grin on their faces and are looking off in the distance. One could say, because I don't look the same, they couldn't possibly be true underwear wearers. Maybe that is a silly example, it just seems if someone is cute and or thin, they get bashed and couldnt possibly ride a bike. Lets let everyone be mtbers.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

MTNgirl said:


> Sex sells, but I'm just not buying it.


Well, apparently you are in the minority because as I was standing in the checkout line of the grocery store last night I counted fifteen places where the word sex was used on womens magazines.


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

*rt* said:


> how would you get those bibs off to pee in the woods???
> 
> maybe i'm just obsessed with this issue (since this is the 2nd time in this thread that i've mentioned it. hmmm....) but really, when i'm doing long rides and i'm well hydrated, nature will call. it's hard enough to run off to find a tree to squat behind on a group road ride and make it back to the group dressed before they're all rolling out without throwing in having to strip off all my clothing just to pull my shorts down. add an attached sports bra into the mix and suddenly you're squatting in the woods buck-nekkid!
> 
> ...


I used to be a competitive swimmer, and we wore body suits for a championship race one year. You're absoloutly right! Getting in and out of those things took forever. Especially when you were wet. Not exactly the same, but damn, I can't even imagine the combo of those bibs, sports bra and jersey. No woman I know would ever seriously consider those bibs, road or mtn.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

*I actually have a pair of these.*

Assos is copying a design by Etxe Ondo (a Basque clothing company whose products are designed by a guy who used to work in couture).

I have done some testing for Etxe Ondo, and have a set of what I call the she-bib shorts.

- the sports bra goes under the bib, as per usual. 
- the bib is very comfortable, not that regular bibs aren't.
- these make going to the restroom more complicated. You do have to remove the top layer of clothing to get the bib off, and it is a bit like getting a very tight tank top off by steping out of it, rather than pulling it off over your head. They are pretty nice for road rides, or places with restrooms. Not my choice for MTBing.

In the end, wear what you like.

As for the ads, they are very European-style. The American bike market tends be be pretty conservative and the Euro ads often don't play well here. We have to make a lot of adjustments in advertising for our clients so that we don't offend American sensibilities with things that don't cause a second glance overseas. Assos probably doesn't have a separate advertisng budget/or designers for the US market - it does require a pretty large sum to do that.

Cheers,
Chuky


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

chuky said:


> As for the ads, they are very European-style. The American bike market tends be be pretty conservative and the Euro ads often don't play well here. We have to make a lot of adjustments in advertising for our clients so that we don't offend American sensibilities with things that don't cause a second glance overseas. Assos probably doesn't have a separate advertisng budget/or designers for the US market - it does require a pretty large sum to do that.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chuky


I think you got it there Chuky. Being a European myself, I can't say the 'hands over boobs' thing really bothered me... the thing that bothered me more was the fact that if they fit her, they most likely won't fit me 'cause I'm 6 inches shorter and 5lbs heavier than the girl in the picture.

No offence to anyone here, but Americans (in general) are terribly prudish when it comes to naked bodies 

- Jen.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

*The cost/difficulty of advertising.*

Actually, dirt does sell, as long as it is well lit, styled and photographed. Badly handled and it can hurt sales.

The thing is, a lot of the catalog guys are doing what they can with the budgets they have. Most of them know that their models don't look like real cyclists, but that isn't because the vendors aren't trying.

A catalog shoot takes between 2-4 days depending upon the number of garments. Most companies make clothing for several sports, and need to get their entire line shot in that time (twice a year - a huge expenditure). Most elite athletes cannot take the time to do these shoots, nor can they risk injury from action shots. In order for a garment to look right in an action shot, the athlete needs to be going really hard, and not always in their particular discipline. Sometimes you have to make the cyclists run, sometimes you have to make the runners get on a bike. You can only afford so many models each day.

For the studio shots, you need to have a model who can commit a lot of time to standing under hot lights. There are a number of elite athletes who do this to help support themselves, but frankly the pay is poor and it is bad for your legs. Really awesome studio work takes more time than these companies typically can pay for, and they often skimp on the stylist.

Vendors could use non-elite athletes but, unfortunately, most of us just don't have what it takes to sell clothes. Natural butts look HUGE in photography, and most of us don't have consistently attractive "camera faces". I have done some modeling for one of the larger clothing companies, and honestly, I just didn't look that great. The professional models were far better at making the shots work and always having the right facial expression.

While there will always be the contingent that knows what a "real" cyclist looks like, most of the women out there buying this stuff aren't trying to put MORE junk-in-the-trunk, and don't aspire to look like "real" cyclists look. We on MTBR are not typical and it is better for the companies involved if they err on the side of standard-pretty.

As for make up, most companies can't afford to hire real make up artists for their photography. They are dependent upon the makeup skills of the model - sometimes with good results, sometimes with bad. You are mistaken though, if you think that those gorgeous shots in Athleta/Patagonia/whatever don't have a stylist or makeup artist behind them. Great clothing photography with good makeup is a pleasure to see - the makeup is invisible, and instead, the women look happy, healthy, bright-eyed and glowing and the clothing is focus of the image.

Cheers,
Chuky


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## oreo (Sep 21, 2005)

*Emma Ledbury..that is her name*



Joe Dirt said:


> I would. Who is she? I assume she rides, but how could she, she is not dirty at all, and she has make up on.


She's a model from Warminster, England and is representing Limar helmets. That pic you posted is of her at Interbike in Las Vegas this past September.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

mahgnillig said:


> I think you got it there Chuky. Being a European myself, I can't say the 'hands over boobs' thing really bothered me... the thing that bothered me more was the fact that if they fit her, they most likely won't fit me 'cause I'm 6 inches shorter and 5lbs heavier than the girl in the picture.
> 
> No offence to anyone here, but Americans (in general) are terribly prudish when it comes to naked bodies
> 
> - Jen.


Yes, Chuky's comments were good.
I'd forgotten about that whole different culture thing. If you've ever watched euro TV, the ads are much more sexual. Less bimbo- factor than American advertising, but more sex. Does that make sense? Heh heh, his and her equal time...


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

mahgnillig said:


> No offence to anyone here, but Americans (in general) are terribly prudish when it comes to naked bodies
> 
> - Jen.


You definitley have that correct, Americans are more offended by an exposed nipple than someones head getting blown off, It's just body parts people, relax. My favorite part is when Liberal Feminists and Conservative Christians find themselves on the same sides on issues like this, makes for a good laugh.


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## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

formica said:


> Less bimbo- factor than American advertising, but more sex. Does that make sense?


Yes. Europeans have a much more mature & relaxed attitude about nudity and sex than Americans do.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Nope, I wouldn't wear them. I realize that chuky says they are comfortable, but the first thing I think of is "swamp cleavage" a la swamp butt. Seems like that would just hold all the sweat right there.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

*Nah, they dont' fit that tightly.*



screampint said:


> Seems like that would just hold all the sweat right there.


The model in the photo just makes it seem that way.

And, I don't know about the Assos version, but the fabric wicks pretty well in the Etxe Ondo version, too. No problems on 5 hour July road rides in LA.

The funny thing is, I wouldn't buy the she-bib, but not for any of the reasons listed above. My personal preference is for shorts.

Of more interest to me are the Adidas shorts for women with the little buckles built into the bib. All the functionality of bibs, with the ease of shorts. Anyone tried a pair?

Cheers,
C


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

chuky said:


> Of more interest to me are the Adidas shorts for women with the little buckles built into the bib. All the functionality of bibs, with the ease of shorts. Anyone tried a pair?
> 
> Cheers,
> C


Now that is a good idea. If they had those for men I'd look into them. Nothing worse than having to strip 2 minutes before the start of a race for well..........you know.


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## Lucky (Jan 12, 2004)

*rt* said:


> how would you get those bibs off to pee in the woods???
> 
> maybe i'm just obsessed with this issue (since this is the 2nd time in this thread that i've mentioned it. hmmm....) but really, when i'm doing long rides and i'm well hydrated, nature will call. it's hard enough to run off to find a tree to squat behind on a group road ride and make it back to the group dressed before they're all rolling out without throwing in having to strip off all my clothing just to pull my shorts down. add an attached sports bra into the mix and suddenly you're squatting in the woods buck-nekkid!
> 
> ...


Yes, and then imagine doing the same in 25F weather, which is what I often ride in. Sure, I want to squat in the woods buck-nekkid *and* freezing my tits off! Gimme some bibs! Not. Any advantage of bibs isn't worth this big disadvantage.

I went to some bike expo years ago, and there was a guy selling Italian bike apparel. I looked around and only saw bibs. I asked him if he had any non-bib shorts. His reply was something to the effect of "bibs are the only thing worth wearing if you're a real rider." I chuckled and replied, "not if you're a woman," and walked away. I once owned a pair of bibs, and they didn't get out much. Only on short weeknight road rides where I wasn't going to need to make a pit stop during the ride.

Kathy :^)


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