# New Ledil XP-G optics



## Eamon Stanley (Jul 22, 2006)

Ledil has just filled in the specs on these two optics. Are there any samples running around out there? Has anyone gotten to play with them? By the numbers, they might actually be a small spot optic for the XP-G.

http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_Lisa2-Pin-XP-G.pdf

http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_Lisa2-Clip16-XP-G.pdf

Eamon


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

Ha, excellent! 10mm optics, real spot. Looks really promising. Can't wait for someone to get hold of them and do some beamshots.

Trouty, are you listening?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ortelius said:


> Ha, excellent! 10mm optics, real spot. Looks really promising. Can't wait for someone to get hold of them and do some beamshots.
> 
> Trouty, are you listening?


Sure Am 

Just emailed Ledil about getting hold of some 2 mins ago after seeing Eamons post on cpf Thanks Eamon

Not getting excited just yet though and they should fit in the Lib too

also dont forget those figures are from a simulation


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

I actually asked Ledil last week if they were going to make a reflector (alá Boom) for the XP-G. They had a design with simulated beam pattern and everything, but they were *not sure* if they were actually going to produce it...

Keywords:
-5 degree FWHM
-19mm OD (Boom for MC-E is 22)
-16mm high

==> Me want!

If everyone here starts pestering them about it, maybe they'll decide to make it :thumbsup:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

langen said:


> Keywords:
> -5 degree FWHM


Is that 5 or +/-5?


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

+/- 5

And when you get the spill light on top of that, I think this could be a killer optic for a helmet light.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

out of curiosity where do all these optics end up in the real world .

I keep looking around and dont see any led lighting that looks familiar


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

I've been thinking the same thing 

For e.g. car or household lighting I would think that the manufacturers would make a whole integrated package with LED, optic and possibly driver, and not buy separate optics from somewhere..?


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> out of curiosity where do all these optics end up in the real world .
> 
> I keep looking around and dont see any led lighting that looks familiar


I've seen quite a few from the worst place I would like to view them ...... from the Dentists chair.

The medical bods love them, nice and bright, nice and small, just perfect for a good poke around.


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## thides74 (Jun 25, 2008)

But when will they actually be available for purchase? It seems that there is often a long delay between the PDF specs on Ledils webpage and when it can actually be purchased.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Probably just in time for when the XP-G is replaced by something new!

Really though I think that the optic companies are getting a lot quicker. I suppose they have to wait and see if the latest LED is selling well before they make optics for it.

I have just emailed Ledil asking if they will be doing a 7up optic as I don't like the Khathod one, not just the beam but it's such feeble thin acrylic.


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

I want some, hopefully cutter will get em soon. It is nice to see some small circular optics, they could open up the possibility for some interesting small helmet lights, like the one recently posted (sorry, too lazy to look for the link, but that is OT anyway).


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

This does sound interesting. Looks like an update of the current Lisa XP-E optic optimized for the XP-G. Has anyone actually tried the current one on an XP-G? Link:

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut875


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

bikeny said:


> This does sound interesting. Looks like an update of the current Lisa XP-E optic optimized for the XP-G. Has anyone actually tried the current one on an XP-G? Link:
> 
> http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut875


Troutie did a ceiling beamshot comparison here

Third picture I think.

Regards,

OTH


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

Cutter have the RS listed.......http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut954


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

WOW, 11deg out of a 9.9mm optic, that doesn't even seem possible. I cant wait to see some beam shots, maybe some of these and and some xp-g's will be taking the place of the xr-e carclo 10mm squares in my 6up prototype troutlight.


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## Eamon Stanley (Jul 22, 2006)

I emailed Mark at Cutter, and he's got them on the shelves.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OK Then who is ordering some to try out then :thumbsup: 

I would like to but the C Card if too full with christmas on the way :sad:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> OK Then who is ordering some to try out then :thumbsup:
> 
> I would like to but the C Card if too full with christmas on the way :sad:


I would if I believed the spec


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

langen said:


> I actually asked Ledil last week if they were going to make a reflector (alá Boom) for the XP-G. They had a design with simulated beam pattern and everything, but they were *not sure* if they were actually going to produce it...
> 
> Keywords:
> -5 degree FWHM
> ...


And here's the graph - looks like it would be a pretty good thrower:


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## Eamon Stanley (Jul 22, 2006)

*Not this time.*

Ledil just added intensity graphs to these two .pdf's. The RS looks surprisingly like a 
+/-13.5 deg optic. Unsurprisingly, the specs have been changed as well. I can't think of a 27-deg optic as a spot, real or unreal.

http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataS...2-Pin-XP-G.pdf

http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataS...lip16-XP-G.pdf

Feh!

Eamon


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

That's good that i didn't ordered them


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

Eamon Stanley said:


> Ledil just added intensity graphs to these two .pdf's. The RS looks surprisingly like a
> +/-13.5 deg optic. Unsurprisingly, the specs have been changed as well. I can't think of a 27-deg optic as a spot, real or unreal.
> 
> http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataS...2-Pin-XP-G.pdf
> ...


Yeah, I'm glad I didn't order them, too. Now, "Oval" one looks more promising than "Real spot", with FWHM angle being ~±5° x ~16°.

Btw, your URL links are broken. Here are the correct ones:
Pin
Clip16


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

Snaps nicely onto the 10mm round


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## Rich_SC (Oct 10, 2009)

I was wondering what I was going to do with the 10mm round PCB's I ordered by mistake...4 of the RS Lisa's ordered.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

WeLight said:


> Snaps nicely onto the 10mm round


Do the black legs protrude out from behind, or can you still mound the whole thing onto a flat surface?


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

That 13.5 degree FWHM is still tighter than the 16.4 degrees from the Carclo 10417 10mm optic which I originally thought a bit "floody" for my intended use on the road but is pretty good for the trail.

The Lisa2 should give a slightly tighter pattern with hopefully a bit more throw. Near perfect for a 4 XP-G off-road light I would have thought. I am considering building another version of my Picasso light using these new optics but upping the current to each LED to 700mA to yield just over 1000 lumens.

Regards,

OTH


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

langen said:


> Do the black legs protrude out from behind, or can you still mound the whole thing onto a flat surface?


No the legs are completely flush, you dont need to remove any material


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## Eamon Stanley (Jul 22, 2006)

OTH,
That's a +/-13.5 deg optic. FWHM is 27deg. I call that a flood.
The Tina XP-G might do what I want it to do, but I don't know who sells it (yet).


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Eamon Stanley said:


> OTH,
> That's a +/-13.5 deg optic. FWHM is 27deg. I call that a flood.
> The Tina XP-G might do what I want it to do, but I don't know who sells it (yet).


Yes, I realise that FWHM stands for Full Width Half Maximum which doubles up to give total viewing angle. My point was that the Lisa 2 at +/- 13.5 degrees is a bit tighter than the Carclo 10417 at +/- 16.4 degrees FWHM.

It depends what you are trying to achieve i.e. what you want to use the light for. The 21.5mm Ledil CXP and LXP will give you a much tighter beam pattern at around +/- 5.5 degrees FWHM from the Real Spot (with the XP-G) if that is what you are looking for. Some people are getting obsessed with tight optics but I don't think you can expect that much from a 10mm optic.

Regards,

OTH


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

WeLight, do these have a notch in the optic holder where the leads to the LED's will connect to the board?


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

OverTheHill said:


> Yes, I realise that FWHM stands for Full Width Half Maximum which doubles up to give total viewing angle. My point was that the Lisa 2 at +/- 13.5 degrees is a bit tighter than the Carclo 10417 at +/- 16.4 degrees FWHM.
> 
> It depends what you are trying to achieve i.e. what you want to use the light for. The 21.5mm Ledil CXP and LXP will give you a much tighter beam pattern at around +/- 5.5 degrees FWHM from the Real Spot (with the XP-G) if that is what you are looking for. Some people are getting obsessed with tight optics but I don't think you can expect that much from a 10mm optic.
> 
> ...


the fact that some quote +/- and some quote full angle is very confusing!
Isn't the the 10417 16.4deg total, i.e. +/-8.2deg? I just did a quick search and that looks about right compared to the CXP at +/-5.5 or 10deg total
eg. here from znomit... (10417 top, CXP_RS bottom)









so if the lisa is +/-13.5 (=26) then it will be a lot wider.

Toby


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

tobymack said:


> the fact that some quote +/- and some quote full angle is very confusing!
> Isn't the the 10417 16.4deg total, i.e. +/-8.2deg? I just did a quick search and that looks about right compared to the CXP at +/-5.5 or 10deg total
> eg. here from znomit... (10417 top, CXP_RS bottom)
> 
> ...


Toby,

10417 is quoted as 16.4 degrees FWHM in the Carclo documentation under Cree XP 10mm range.

My experience in use is that it is very floody, so I'm pretty sure it can't be 16.4 degrees total viewing angle. If anyone knows any different please confirm.


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

Well, in Carclo documentation it is explicitly noted that their FWHM numbers mean *total viewing angle*. As I understant this, for 10417 total viewing angle is 16.4 degrees. So +/- 8.2, not +/- 16.4.

Besides, near the end of that document, there are couple of graphs that show luminous intensity/viewing angle distribution. From those it is clearly evident that their FWHM numbers really represent total viewing angle, not half of it.


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

yes, all the optics have the comment


> #Full Width Half Maximum i.e. total viewing angle


so that is 16.4 total or +/-8.2 in Ledil speak.

whether it is a true 16.4 or not is another matter but it stacks up fairly well in the picture I pinched from znomit.

Toby


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Right, having consulted Wikipedia I (think) I understand now. FWHM actually means full width at half maximum *intensity*. There is a little graph on there which illustrates things quite clearly.

Looking at the Relative Intensity graph for the Lisa 2 you can quite clearly see that the +/- 13 degrees is at the 50% intensity level. The Carclo datasheet doesn't have a Relative Intensity graph for the 10417 but as ortelius stated there are other Luminous Intensity graphs which do show the full width at 50%. i.e. half maximum intensity

I did see the comment that you point to toby that #Full Width Half Maximum i.e. total viewing angle but took that to mean the value stated is half the maximum not measured at half the maximum intensity.

Thanks to you both for hammering that home and clearing up the confusion. I won't be ordering the Lisa 2 anytime soon now! :nono:


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

> I did see the comment that you point to toby that #Full Width Half Maximum i.e. total viewing angle but took that to mean the value stated is half the maximum not measured at half the maximum intensity.


Now you explain it I see why it is confusing!

Toby


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

HuffyPuffy said:


> WeLight, do these have a notch in the optic holder where the leads to the LED's will connect to the board?


Perhaps this is clearer








It will require very fine gauge wire and you will need to drill into the holder


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tobymack said:


> Now you explain it I see why it is confusing!
> 
> Toby


....to say the least. After reading the last couple pages on this thread, I think I'll just compare beam shots. All this FWHM crap, who comes up with this stuff ?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> ....to say the least. After reading the last couple pages on this thread, I think I'll just compare beam shots. All this FWHM crap, who comes up with this stuff ?


Its very useful if accurate!


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## Madmusk (Nov 10, 2009)

Eamon Stanley said:


> OTH,
> That's a +/-13.5 deg optic. FWHM is 27deg. I call that a flood.
> The Tina XP-G might do what I want it to do, but I don't know who sells it (yet).


Does anyone know where to get the Tina for XP-G? Digi-Key has only the RS Diffuse and Medium. I emailed Mark at cutter but no response yet. BTW, he seemed to indicate earlier that he can get the other Lisa2's that are not the Real Spot if you are looking for them.


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

WeLight said:


> It will require very fine gauge wire and you will need to drill into the holder


Thanks for the pics Mark! That does not look too difficult. Though it seems like accommodating wires is an afterthought (if even a thought) for most optics manufacturers, or maybe I'm just doing it wrong


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

Madmusk said:


> Does anyone know where to get the Tina for XP-G? Digi-Key has only the RS Diffuse and Medium. I emailed Mark at cutter but no response yet. BTW, he seemed to indicate earlier that he can get the other Lisa2's that are not the Real Spot if you are looking for them.


Hi 
I have Tina on Order with Ledil, most likely have them in early Jan


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## Madmusk (Nov 10, 2009)

WeLight said:


> Hi
> I have Tina on Order with Ledil, most likely have them in early Jan


Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for them!


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## -LightOn- (Aug 14, 2009)

Hi,
I just phoned ledil guys here in Finland and talked to them about the optics for xpg. They said they have measured the xpg with the xpe lxp and cxp optics and the difference was so small that those optics can be very well be used with the xpg as well.

I'm planning on building a 5 xpg light with 2 medium and 3 real spot optics.


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## Mickey Blue (Mar 31, 2008)

hi guys,

the discussion always seems to be around spot or flood, or the tightest spot and the longest throw.. is there any need for the oval / elliptical optics?

what about a light to be used as a flasher (road) or headlight (road/offroad), would the oval be a better choice than the other optics? and why?

thanks heaps
Mike


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

-LightOn- said:


> Hi,
> I just phoned ledil guys here in Finland and talked to them about the optics for xpg. They said they have measured the xpg with the xpe lxp and cxp optics and the difference was so small that those optics can be very well be used with the xpg as well.
> 
> I'm planning on building a 5 xpg light with 2 medium and 3 real spot optics.


but surely their own datasheets contradict that?
eg. the LXP RS is quoted at +/-3deg whereas the LXP-G RS is +/-5.5deg. That is an 80% wider beam on the G!!!

http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_LXP.pdf
http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_LXP-G.pdf

Or have I missed something?

Toby


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## -LightOn- (Aug 14, 2009)

I believe that they were referring to the difference in relative beam pattern not so much the absolute beam angle which is different as you pointed out.

Still, that 11deg FWHM beam should be good for riding. At 60 feet that gives 13 feet wide beam.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

I like the CXP-O better than the M optic.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

tobymack said:


> but surely their own datasheets contradict that?
> eg. the LXP RS is quoted at +/-3deg whereas the LXP-G RS is +/-5.5deg. That is an 80% wider beam on the G!!!
> 
> http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_LXP.pdf
> ...


I think he means LXP=CXP. Both are ~40-50% wider with G.


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

ah, ok. I misunderstood.

Toby


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## Kaitsu (Jun 12, 2006)

Lisa2 & Tina with XP-G



























Hope to get better pics later. Iris was a nightmare to get right. Lisa is frosted inside, not so good. And one dome is lost again...


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## formantjim (Feb 24, 2008)

Magnificent testing well done! Really shows the Iris prowess at focusing all those Lumens into a tight spot.
The Fraen also performed excellently for a smaller size than the Iris.

Now I have to make some more lights!!! Sigh!


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## Madmusk (Nov 10, 2009)

Great stuff Kaitsu! The Tina looks to be a suitable compromise between tiny and regular sized optics although the amount of spill looks to be quite a bit. The Lisa2 is a sorry excuse for a 'Real Spot' from the looks of it. Where did you purchase the Fraens and the Tina?


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## Kaitsu (Jun 12, 2006)

Madmusk said:


> ...Where did you purchase the Fraens and the Tina?


Thanks! Tina is from Ledil here in Finland, Fraens are from my old XR-E project. I got them from led-tech.de. I don't know if someone sells them anymore.

Ugly one oldie
Fraen project of my teammate
Evolution


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

great comparison.
The Tina does look good but it still isn't as bright as 1/4 of that cute4+XRE. Which, given the tina is no smaller than most XRE optics, sort of implies the XRE is still a good option for a spot.........


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## Kaitsu (Jun 12, 2006)

Previous results & images above updated, and a new one:








LXP was pretty good. Lisa2 and GT4 were disappointing. I wonder if you could get more light by polishing them?

And an other dome missing again...


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## Madmusk (Nov 10, 2009)

tobymack said:


> great comparison.
> The Tina does look good but it still isn't as bright as 1/4 of that cute4+XRE. Which, given the tina is no smaller than most XRE optics, sort of implies the XRE is still a good option for a spot.........


Considering that many of Ledil's more standard optics such as the LC-1 and CRS are 21.6mm width x 14mm depth, the 16mm x 10mm Tina is a pretty decent space saver. Sure the 10mm Carclo's and Ledil's exist but as we've seen they really can't achieve a true spot with that size.

Kaitsu, what are the measurements of your Fraen's seeing that you modified them? It seems to be impressively bright and spotty.


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

Where can we order the Tina from? I do not see them on the cutter site, and there are a coupe of options on digikey, but not sure if they are the right ones. Any help would be appreciated! BTW.. I am in the US!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I bought some of the Tina D from Digikey, but have not built them into anything yet. According to the spec sheet they should have a 2 degree wider beam than the Tina RS that Kaitsu has tested.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I have built some single XP-G R5 lights recently using Ledil CXP-RS and LXP-RS and have been very impressed with the spot/throw.

Very useful tests Kaitsu


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Vancbiker said:


> I bought some of the Tina D from Digikey, but have not built them into anything yet. According to the spec sheet they should have a 2 degree wider beam than the Tina RS that Kaitsu has tested.


I did a little testing with the same optic on an XPG. It works ok, but seems to be a wider than the 2 degrees more than the RS would suggest. I decided it was too wide for helmet use and I tend to like a medium spot on the helmet.

The LXP-RS seems to be the best spot for the XPG of anything I've tried. But I'm also playing with some IMS reflectors that look really promising.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Kaitsu, this is really helpful data. 

Do you happen to have a Cute-3-SS-XP optic on a triple XPG. That and the LXP-RS are the best optics I've found for the XPG thus far. It's a little wider than the Cute-3-SS on an XRE, but given the additional light from the XPG it appears to results in almost as much light intensity. I'd love to see if your test validates that.....

Also, what light meter are you using. I've been meaning to get a light meter anyway and I was thinking maybe I'd pick up the same one so I could contribute some equivalent data. I've also been playing with some IMS reflectors on the XPG that look really promising and I'd like to make some actual measurements.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MtbMacgyver said:


> I did a little testing with the same optic on an XPG. It works ok, but seems to be a wider than the 2 degrees more than the RS would suggest. I decided it was too wide for helmet use and I tend to like a medium spot on the helmet.
> 
> The LXP-RS seems to be the best spot for the XPG of anything I've tried. But I'm also playing with some IMS reflectors that look really promising.


So the Tina D probably ends up being quite similar to the Carclo 10417? That's too bad as I was thinking about another build similar to the micro helmet light I recently did using the Carclos, just grow it a bit and use the Tinas. Not worth the work if it is not significantly better. I also have some LXP RS. Maybe I'll try something with them. I am getting tempted to try machining some aluminum 10mm reflectors.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Vancbiker said:


> So the Tina D probably ends up being quite similar to the Carclo 10417? That's too bad as I was thinking about another build similar to the micro helmet light I recently did using the Carclos, just grow it a bit and use the Tinas. Not worth the work if it is not significantly better. I also have some LXP RS. Maybe I'll try something with them. I am getting tempted to try machining some aluminum 10mm reflectors.


I don't have any 10417's, but from looking at the pictures above I think that's probably about right.

I'm also working on a very small lightweight helmet light. I really wanted to use the Carclo 20mm Triple (10507), but after some testing I think it's just too wide. I'm leaning towards going with a single XPG now using a LXP-RS or an IMS reflector. I want something to complement my mr11 Triple XPG bar light. I end up using the bar light at 500ma drive current 95% of the time and the single XPG / LXP-RS appears to complement that pretty well, but I'll be running it at 1000ma all the time. I really wanted to use another triple on the helmet and run it at 500ma or less to get really high efficiency. But that doesn't look possible until some new optics become available.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Kaitsu,

Thanks for sharing all these optics and lux findings with us. 
You have done a ton of work here and it is appreciated.
Have you done any testing with the Iris and a MC-E emitter?
Would be interesting to see how the MC-E lux compared to the XPG lux.
Build away and keep up the good work.:thumbsup:


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## Kaitsu (Jun 12, 2006)

Madmusk​Fraens are now about 24x24mm as the lens diameter is. The holder was originally round and 32mm.

tamen00​I wonder if Cutter wouldn't have them soon. I bought them from [email protected].

MtbMacgyver​Yes I have Cute-3-SS-XP lens, but not a suitable board. Must build from the scratch. The multimeter is this http://www.biltema.fi/osteri/data/webpics_all/Web%20images%20Sorted/15/huge/15-284_h.jpg. I wouldn't consider it very reliable, but i can repeat those measurements.

odtexas​MCE + Iris should be next + some Fraen reflector.

And all those max luxes from the meter should be multiplied by 10 to get real ones.​


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

:cornut:


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

Madmusk said:


> Considering that many of Ledil's more standard optics such as the LC-1 and CRS are 21.6mm width x 14mm depth, the 16mm x 10mm Tina is a pretty decent space saver. Sure the 10mm Carclo's and Ledil's exist but as we've seen they really can't achieve a true spot with that size.
> 
> Kaitsu, what are the measurements of your Fraen's seeing that you modified them? It seems to be impressively bright and spotty.


that will teach me not to check! I thought the Tina was about 20mm :blush:

after Kaitsu's latest updates I think the LXP is pretty impressive - over twice the lux of the Tina has got be worth the extra size?

Toby


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Good stuff Kaitsu.
I had a very honest mail from a guy at ledil telling me the Lisa2 had not worked out very good and not to use it in my liberator light . 
and seeing your shots I am glad I did not buy any .

I wonder if they will try for a lisa 3

anyways here is one to add to the gallery it is a polymer optics on an xpg .
with the tape and distance the same as yours sadly no luxmeter.










and the same setup but with 1 mtre tapes and 2 metres away .ignore the different brightness`s as I could not rember what I had the camera set at


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

Troutie, which PolymerOptics part no. is that?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ortelius said:


> Troutie, which PolymerOptics part no. is that?


it was the 120 6 degree

http://www.polymer-optics.co.uk/Cree XP-E Optics Range.pdf


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## Kaitsu (Jun 12, 2006)

Cute3-XPG/E-SS with 3 x XP-G and 3 x XP-E








Hope I will have all those pics taken once again with 1 meter tapes at 2 meters distance.


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

I just got an order of the Tinal xpg RS in and they rock. Not a tight a spot as the LC1-rs, but I think plenty tight for bike applications.


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## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

Caution Picture Heavy!
Man Kaitsu, you did a lot of work getting those pictures posted. I thot I'd copy your methodology. Good job! I put up a tape target 6 feet from camera. Tapes are 3' long. I'm using my POS lux meter for the readings. I'll be interested in how the 2 Iris optics perform. I have ridden with the two MCE with the narrow Frean reflectors. I like the beam pattern, there is quite a bit of spill up close. Lots of light on the target.


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## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

Alright, THIS time I'll include the readings from the lightmeter! 2 MCE's narrow Frean=380 lux. 3 MCE's CMC-RS= 315 lux. 1 P7 flashlight=195 lux. 4 MCE Boom narrow=340 lux. 4 MCE LM1-D=400 lux. later James


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

I am confused... are these pictures for XPG's or MCE's? What optics and led were used for each of the beamshots?


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

OldMTBfreak said:


> Caution Picture Heavy!
> Man Kaitsu, you did a lot of work getting those pictures posted. I thot I'd copy your methodology. Good job! I put up a tape target 6 feet from camera. Tapes are 3' long. I'm using my POS lux meter for the readings.


I need to record the patterns of some XP-G optics, too & post results here. :madman:

Kaitsu, I like this approach so much I'll also do a Zaphod (I think I'll steal it!) :thumbsup:

Issue is getting a suitable POS light meter. Probably have several light meters I can borrow from camera happy friends and/or associates but they will likely be old. Is there anything I should look for or avoid in a borrowed light meter a camera bug would have?

:idea: Working: check! Free loan/keep: check! I couldn't think of anything else. Place to glue on velcro to hold on wall?

I assume if I can get a lux reading, I'm in business?  .


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## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

Hi Tamen, sorry about the pictures. On my computer (IE BTW) if you hover the cursor over the picture it identifies it. Here you go: 1) 2 MCE narrow Frean, 2) 2 MCE narrow Frean, 3) 3 MCE CMC-RS, 4) 3 MCE CMC-RS, 5) 4 MCE Boom narrow, 6) 4 MCE LM1-D, 7) 4 MCE LM1-D, 8) case for 2 MCE's + Iris optic, 9) 1 P7 flashlight, 10) test shot.


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

OldMTBfreak said:


> Hi Tamen, sorry about the pictures. On my computer (IE BTW) if you hover the cursor over the picture it identifies it. Here you go: 1) 2 MCE narrow Frean, 2) 2 MCE narrow Frean, 3) 3 MCE CMC-RS, 4) 3 MCE CMC-RS, 5) 4 MCE Boom narrow, 6) 4 MCE LM1-D, 7) 4 MCE LM1-D, 8) case for 2 MCE's + Iris optic, 9) 1 P7 flashlight, 10) test shot.


NICE!!! I was a little slow on that... but now I see the file names! Thanks


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

OldMTBfreak said:


> Caution Picture Heavy!


I am confused. Didn't you fix the exposure?


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## Kaitsu (Jun 12, 2006)

Some shots, F4, 6 seconds, ISO 100, daylight

7xXPG-R5 - maxFlex 1A - 4x10417+2x10413+10415









4xXPG-R4 - 1A - GT4-Spot









4xXPG-R4 - 1A - Cute4-SS









3xXPG-R5 - 1A - Cute3-XPG-Spot









1xXPG-R5 - 1A - Tina-XP-G-RS









1xXPG-R5 - 1A - LXP-G-RS









1xXPG-R5 - 1A - 10413









1xXPG-R5 - 1A - 10415-Elliptical









1xXPG-R5 - 1A - 10417









All pics from the frozen








lab








here:
https://www.elisanet.fi/kai_js_nurminen/html/diy-lights2.html

Can't get enough, done it triple :madman: but lost only one XPG R5 :thumbsup:


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## mtbikerTi (Jan 15, 2004)

I think I like the LXP-RS... Hmm.


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

Kaitsu said:


> 4xXPG-R4 - 1A - Cute4-SS


Kaitsu, is that really 4 XPG leds with Cute4 in the third picture? In previous indoor beamshots you only had XRE leds with Cute4. If they really are XPGs, then Cute4-SS looks much better than XPG4-Spot for helmet light.


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## Kaitsu (Jun 12, 2006)

ortelius said:


> Kaitsu, is that really 4 XPG leds with Cute4 in the third picture? In previous indoor beamshots you only had XRE leds with Cute4. If they really are XPGs, then Cute4-SS looks much better than XPG4-Spot for helmet light.


Yes, I was suprised also, Cute4-SS was much better than GT4-Spot. They were done with the same Cutter XPG R4 board. Must do an indoor shot also.

I got yesterday Ledil GT4-M -lenses. They look the same as GT4-S, so I was wondering if we have got wrong lenses. Beams were still different, so the lenses really are as stated in the pics.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I just now opened this thread and the only thing I can say is....ARE YOU FRIEK'IN SERIOUS! _Beam shots on snow!_ You got to be kidding. :bluefrown:

Right now I'm sitting on three new lights that I would love to post beam shots of BUT I WON'T, because first, I HAD TO WAIT FOR THE SNOW TO MELT. Secondly, I have to wait for things to dry out . Thirdly, It keeps raining every three or four days so I keep waiting.  No sense taking photos that can't display color variations, textures, beam patterns, beam tint, contrast, etc...am I leaving something out? Does the term "White out " mean anything to anyone? :shocked:


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Hey Cat, you'll love this one then 7up XPG R5 Khatod 6 degree


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> I just now opened this thread and the only thing I can say is....ARE YOU FRIEK'IN SERIOUS! _Beam shots on snow!_ You got to be kidding. :bluefrown:


Some of us regularly do winter nightriding on snowed in paths, so such beamshots are quite useful, too. They give quite good impression on beam power and pattern from different lenses. Sure they don't expose color variations, textures, etc, but those things are of not such great imporatance when you aim light on snowy ground, do they? Besides, IMHO those things depend more on LED's color bin, not so much on lense type? And this thread is fucused on optics, not led bins.

Kaitsu, keep on excellent work.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ortelius said:


> Kaitsu, keep on excellent work.


+1 :thumbsup:


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Nominated for...*

Best use of lawn furniture in taking beamshots,,,Kaitsu

And for most effective sacrifice of digits to frostbite in a set of beamshots...Kaitsu

Yes the snow is an issue, but there is still great info here. :thumbsup:

Waiting for favorable weather also makes a lot of sense but sometimes the itch must be scratched. :madman:


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## symbology (Sep 17, 2009)

ortelius said:


> Kaitsu, keep on excellent work.


Agree 100%


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## MHC (Oct 23, 2009)

> I just now opened this thread and the only thing I can say is....ARE YOU FRIEK'IN SERIOUS! Beam shots on snow! You got to be kidding.


Got to agree, post pics in darkest possible conditions - they are bound to be brighter in snowy ones & the glare may mask artifacts that would show up when taken without snow.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

So no beam shots if there is snow on the ground. :skep: 
Hope none of you builders live anywhere where it is cold and snows.:thumbsup: 
Thankfully being in Texas I can post my beam shots year round. 

Be thankful that people take the time to take beam shots and share those shots with us.
Compare the optics/beam shots to each other on the snow and one can get an idea of throw vs spread comparison. That is what we are looking at here and the point the poster was trying to share.

Maybe the roadies will get on here and complain that our beam shots need to include blacktop shots.


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## Madmusk (Nov 10, 2009)

To be fair tint is a lot easier to pick out on a neutral surface, such as white. Also, one standard way to produce beam shots is against a white wall.

I would have to say that the contamination from the incandescent tinted light on the right is a little distracting though. Regarless...THANKS KAITSU!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

odtexas said:


> So no beam shots if there is snow on the ground. :skep:
> Hope none of you builders live anywhere where it is cold and snows.:thumbsup:
> Thankfully being in Texas I can post my beam shots year round.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I understand. I just got a new triple XP-G light for Christmas. It snowed big time just before Christmas. I discovered using the new light outside on snow was pointless. Anything putting out more than 200L just creates a very large bright spot in front which reflects back and tends to hamper your night vision.

Beam shots are always welcome...even when they are not so useful. The criticism was meant to be constructive and to add to the discussion. I agree though, major brownie points earned for the effort.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

It's cool Cat. You are usually one of the first and most vocal about asking for beam shots and that is good for the board.
Keep it up. 
It's just that when the guy has skis and poles in the picture............................. You know............   :thumbsup: 
(edit :had forgotten the smileys)


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

odtexas said:


> Maybe the roadies will get on here and complain that our beam shots need to include blacktop shots.


This roadie is perfectly happy with any beam shots. (Road beef? I got no road beef! I don't need no stinkin' road.) Sorry, got carried away, there, 

I liked seeing the setup. I feel much better about the Macguyver'd equipment and setup for shots I am planning. :idea:

I agree with Cat, so no new light post without beamshots fer me! The R5's are coming!

The 12th fareway of the Country Club is at the back property line. How would it do as a test location with sit-on-the-ground distance markers? Roads have those pesky cars on 'em.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Kaitsu said:


> Cute3-XPG/E-SS with 3 x XP-G and 3 x XP-E


Kaitsu, I didn't see it mentioned so I thought I'd ask: What size triple optic was that you used ( Cute3-XP-G/E-ss ) Is that a 20mm or is it larger?


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## brum (Dec 19, 2004)

CUTE is a MR11 optic, 35mm in diameter.


Cat-man-do said:


> Kaitsu, I didn't see it mentioned so I thought I'd ask: What size triple optic was that you used ( Cute3-XP-G/E-ss ) Is that a 20mm or is it larger?


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