# Bikepacking & Water: The good, the bad, and the ugly. (General discussion)



## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

I've been getting alot of questions about this picture above taken in May 2021 in NW Arizona. Did you drink that? Are you crazy, did you get sick, Filter, tablets, boil? Etc. I'll answer it a little at a time. When I first pulled up I was into my second of what ended up being 6 days off grid in the NW Arizona Strip, aka: Grand Canyon Parashant National Monument. I needed water, but hesitated. This source was pretty filthy. There were gobs of gelatinous matter, cow spit, hair, bugs, growing living matter that is dangerous. E-coli, amongst many more diseases could be had from this water!!! I pedaled 100 or so yards away and turned around. I needed water. I had a big desert plain to cross and then Grand Gulch Canyon to climb and a little further to next water unless I went off my planned route to Tassi or Pakoon Springs. I'd lose a day. I need to end my day on top of the Grand Gulch Bench if I am going to make it to a couple other places on my route with the food I have on board.

I'm writing a blog article about: Water. Instead of just relying about how I will filter or treat just about any water, I'd like to get some discussion going, experiences had during bikepacking rides where the water is just plain horrible or easy to filter, how much water will you carry, and how much have you carried, has anyone gotten sick? Old mines runoff, agriculture waters, cattle tanks, natural springs? I've filtered water rather close to sources with Hantavirus warnings.








Tularemia warnings,








I've encountered all sorts of disgusting **** and I've never been sick from bad water. In recent years all I carry is a Sawyer squeeze, sometimes a MSR Guardian, tablets and fire as well as a handful of paper coffee filters. I've used UV, Katadyn, PUR and others but the Sawyer does virtually all I need in a rather compact package. My filter has been in use often since spring 2018. My tip for good flow? Backflushing often. I'm not trying to promote any one choice of filter but want some conversation about your choices and methods or not.

For the guys that dont filter water. Why? If you dont travel outside the bounds of domestic water supplies great. Ask a question anyway. If you've ridden anything more than an overnight ride you've had to of filtered water. Running water only? Predemarcated sources from online/offline maps? Pre planned water-cache? Guided/tour accompanied rides? Do you study routes a little more in depth and check other possible sources? Breaking your own ground? Planning your own route and hoping you guess correctly?








And rogue cows, and bulls that might be a little standoffish. Haha.








In summer 2020 I pedaled from Port Orford to Moab on the Trans-America Trail. (aka: American Trail Race or Salida to the Sea backwards) The western US section of this route is some of the most remote in the lower 48, sometimes 200+ miles between resupply points, town, post offices. The GPX tracks dont give any way points, it is up to one to figure it out. There is water, virtually none labeled 'potable' , only a couple I drank from without filtering.








Winter 2020, I was close to Adam's well. I'd set my bike down a half mile away and just brought my containers. Letting Spotify play whatever random track just for noise as I am sure plenty of wildlife rely on these remote sources built by sometimes conservation cor, cor of engineers, ranchers that built ponds to be able to supply old plantations. Hiking down what was a svc road to when the well was built in the 40s, not even a recent foot tread in the dirt as not many come out to some of these places, I saw a Bighorn Horn Sheep headed towards where I was going. I let it go first and came back later.








How about collecting a little water when sitting out a rain storm in your tent? Even a life straw can be helpful there. A cup of water collected is a cup of water had.

Just a couple of days ago I met a touring cyclist. In 2020 he rode a 9000+ mile loop around western US and he doesn't carry a filter or any stove. Mind blown, but his riding is predominantly paved populated roadways. Ok. I'd still carry a tool for filtering and treating water.

For me, being able and confident enough to rely on otherwise non potable water sources opens up my ability to explore further. This link:
Bikepacking & Water is more pictures in a google file for viewing, questioning and or pondering. I've never been sick.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I'm a running water only kind of guy. I know there are people that filter and boil anything they can find, but for me I'm just not willing to chance ruining a trip over rotten water. To make matters worse, I have a sensitive stomach and would probably get the bubble guts even if it wasn't something serious like giardia. 

The only fix I've come up with is to plan routes accordingly around water spots, and carry more than is usually comfortable. I also plan meals that take very minimal water, if any at all. My goal is usually to only need water for coffee and oatmeal. Dinners can easily be done water free.

I've been carrying a full 3L bladder in my pack, along with 2 large bottles of Smart Water and a full large bottle on my downtube. The bottle on the downtube is for cooking and emergency only. The bladder can get me through a day, and the Smart Waters can get me through a day each (provided it's not 100+), plus the Sawyer screws onto the top for filtering when empty.

It's a lot and it's heavy and annoying at the beginning of the trip, but I'd rather drag around extra weight for a while than filter water that cows have been shitting in.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I'm a running water only kind of guy. I know there are people that filter and boil anything they can find, but for me I'm just not willing to chance ruining a trip over rotten water. To make matters worse, I have a sensitive stomach and would probably get the bubble guts even if it wasn't something serious like giardia.
> 
> The only fix I've come up with is to plan routes accordingly around water spots, and carry more than is usually comfortable. I also plan meals that take very minimal water, if any at all. My goal is usually to only need water for coffee and oatmeal. Dinners can easily be done water free.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but you live in AZ? I'm going to bike pack this summer for the first time. Sawyers work darn well with crusty tank nastiness. Weirds me out though. Seeing bugs swimming in shite water is gross. I carry iodine tabs as a backup.

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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

DrDon said:


> Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but you live in AZ? I'm going to bike pack this summer for the first time. Sawyers work darn well with crusty tank nastiness. Weirds me out though. Seeing bugs swimming in shite water is gross. I carry iodine tabs as a backup.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I winter in Arizona, and ride alot, work a little. I'm in Santa Fe currently after 2000 miles from Tucson. I carry tabs too but haven't used them in a long time. I will boil some initial water for coffee while filtering if it's not dank. Ta know that crap, the viscosity is heavier, higher specific gravity because it's so filthy with cow spit, bugs and hair? Sometimes when it's real filthy, like my initial pic usually twice through coffee filters. The remains are some crazy **** out of a zombie movie. Then through Sawyer, with back flush every liter. Even the darkest water comes out clear. Cross contamination is my biggest peeve in situations like above. A few antibacterial wipes, a good seal on filter. I've carried plenty of water. 12-14 liters. The brutal Nevada basin in August. 20 liters. Check.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I have an MSR filter somewhere. Can't remember the last time I used it.

Coffee (pre) filters work great, as does boiling it -- especially if you have time and wood -- as do iodine or Aquamira, and sometimes I get lucky and can use a BeFree.

I carry lots of Nuun on trips where iodine is needed.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

DrDon said:


> Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but you live in AZ? I'm going to bike pack this summer for the first time. Sawyers work darn well with crusty tank nastiness. Weirds me out though. Seeing bugs swimming in shite water is gross. I carry iodine tabs as a backup.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Correct, I'm a Phoenix full timer. I fully trust the Sawyer, but like I said my stomach is pretty sensitive. I just can't get myself to use stagnant water. I grew up in the Midwest where stagnant water was a big no no due to mosquito eggs and such. I think it was just drilled into my head for so long that I can't get past it. I'd rather detour to a moving stream and add some miles than risk getting sick.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

Man, that's some desperation looking **** there. I'd coffee filter, then filter, then boil with iodine... lol.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

You guys that use coffee filters, do they work better than a bandana or some kind of other cloth pre filter?


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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> You guys that use coffee filters, do they work better than a bandana or some kind of other cloth pre filter?


Yes, coffee filters work great, and by the time I am done the coffee filter is dry and I just burn it.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Pedalto_themetal said:


> For the guys that dont filter water. Why?


Because filtering is usually a waste of time and energy. Steripen Adventurer, 20 oz bike bottle, optional pre-filter. Plus Platupus and Drom-lite bottles. Aquamita backup. No pumping, no clogs, no frozen gravity line.


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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

She&I said:


> Because filtering is usually a waste of time and energy. Steripen Adventurer, 20 oz bike bottle, optional pre-filter. Plus Platupus and Drom-lite bottles. Aquamita backup. No pumping, no clogs, no frozen gravity line.


Why is filtering a waste of time?


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Pedalto_themetal said:


> Why is filtering a waste of time?


It's a waste of my time because I usually don't need to remove particulates, and UV is a far superior method of eliminating pathogens. It's faster and easier and requires no constant back flushing or any maintenance whatsoever aside from a new set of batteries every ~60 days of all-day use.

PS: I'm skeptical of your experience with the forms of purification you listed. Had you put a UV system through its paces you'd have known what I explained to you in this thread. Also, "alot" isn't a word.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

Cattle trough frequent user here. I filter and pre-filter when the source is crusty. Use a Hydroblu Versaflow cartridge. Basically same as Sawyer. But living in Nevada and bikepacking in areas with mines I sometimes use an additional Hydroblu carbon cartridge that screws onto the hollow fiber tube cartridge. Takes some of the chemical worry out. Never been sick and so far haven't grown any extra appendages.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I carry a filter and aquamira. But, I'm in the desert and all too often am sharing water with cattle.

Was that hantavirus sign in the Rincons?


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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

d365 said:


> Man, that's some desperation looking **** there. I'd coffee filter, then filter, then boil with iodine... lol.


It's not really despiration but when planning a ride it is the only water available. A choice. My choice to go places that water like this may be the only option. I dont scout the route but study maps. Whether BLM, NF, NWR, homework and a few spells of luck has kept me from drying up like an old dead cow...


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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

DougA said:


> Cattle trough frequent user here. I filter and pre-filter when the source is crusty. Use a Hydroblu Versaflow cartridge. Basically same as Sawyer. But living in Nevada and bikepacking in areas with mines I sometimes use an additional Hydroblu carbon cartridge that screws onto the hollow fiber tube cartridge. Takes some of the chemical worry out. Never been sick and so far haven't grown any extra appendages.


Yeah man, Nevada can be a ***** for water. I've pedaled westbound Pony Express and eastbound TAT and I've had numerous questionable sources. My doctor says I am am healthy with 2 physicals a year at 52, so I'll take it as a compliment.


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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

dysfunction said:


> I carry a filter and aquamira. But, I'm in the desert and all too often am sharing water with cattle.
> 
> Was that hantavirus sign in the Rincons?


The sign was at Tassi Spring, upper Grand wash flow lake mead/Parashant National Monument. I've pedaled around the Rincons, Catalina, etc and there are quite a few out there....


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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

She&I said:


> It's a waste of my time because I usually don't need to remove particulates, and UV is a far superior method of eliminating pathogens. It's faster and easier and requires no constant back flushing or any maintenance whatsoever aside from a new set of batteries every ~60 days of all-day use.
> 
> PS: I'm skeptical of your experience with the forms of purification you listed. Had you put a UV system through its paces you'd have known what I explained to you in this thread. Also, "alot" isn't a word.


What is there to be skeptical of? And I gives no **** about whether a word I use is proper to you or not. You sound very sheltered.








This is another great water hole I visit atleast once every winter when riding in the vicinity of the Kofa NWR is western Arizona. There is always hair and bugs, even some tiny critters that look like shrimp, maybe a sort of grub. Pretty foul, but I choose to go these places. 


She&I said:


> It's a waste of my time because I usually don't need to remove particulates, and UV is a far superior method of eliminating pathogens. It's faster and easier and requires no constant back flushing or any maintenance whatsoever aside from a new set of batteries every ~60 days of all-day use.
> 
> PS: I'm skeptical of your experience with the forms of purification you listed. Had you put a UV system through its paces you'd have known what I explained to you in this thread. Also, "alot" isn't a word.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I had a friend who was a rather avid, and experienced backpacker. He was totally shocked at my water purification, but he was used to being in places where you actually have streams as regular items. Sharing a cattle pond was an eye opener for him on his first backpacking trip in AZ.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Pedalto_themetal said:


> What is there to be skeptical of?


That you've come here touting expertise across many purification systems but still seem to champion filters. Expound on your use of UV. What unit(s) did you use, what frequency and conditions? Battery life?

Believe it or not, when a person uses made-up words, the person is less credible than one who doesn't. I presume as a "blogger" that you want to be persuasive. Something to ponder when the panties untwist.


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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

dysfunction said:


> I had a friend who was a rather avid, and experienced backpacker. He was totally shocked at my water purification, but he was used to being in places where you actually have streams as regular items. Sharing a cattle pond was an eye opener for him on his first backpacking trip in AZ.


Have you ever been out in the Kofa NWR? Western AZ? 








One of the difficulties inthe Kofa is water, and that it is surrounded on 3 sides by Yuma Proving Ground, and operational mines. For the past 4 winters I have spent upwards of 2 weeks at a time exploring this area. I've got a group ride planned for fall/winter 2021. I will be pedaling from Tucson, others from Phoenix and Cali, a few days circumnavigating this majestic place. FYI: +tires or fat recommended. Ive got a bunch if data if interested.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Pedalto_themetal said:


> I prefer filters vs UV. I'm not touting expertise but relating my experience, and it has only been a good experience as I've never been sick. I've been using numerous filters since long before handheld UV devices were widely available. I've used tablets, and drops many times. What if your electronic device breaks? What if the batteries died? What if there wasn't running water and it dried up and had bugs and larvae? Oh, you would ride back to the trailhead to your car eh? Only plan rides with running water along the way? Awesome. You are an A S S H O L E. You have some attitude that yours is the only way, well pull up your cute little Democrat panties son not everyplace has running water. You probably ride an ebike eh?


Actually I was on your side. My buddy gave up UV in AZ because of the little creepy swimmies floating in the green or brown water. I have family members who are active duty who voted Democrat. And believe me son, you would not say that to their face. Actually being active or not is not relevant.

You're right, he was being a dick. No right to call Democrats pansies if you're not standing in front of the man.

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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Wow. I'm gonna take it you're not going to like any of my contributions at this point. Perhaps it's others panties in a wad.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Pedalto_themetal said:


> ...or I'd knock your fucking teeth out.


Dang, dude...half-wheel the guy into a ditch. You need those hands to filter that water.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

DrDon said:


> Actually I was on your side. My buddy gave up UV in AZ because of the little creepy swimmies floating in the green or brown water. I have family members who are active duty who voted Democrat. And believe me son, you would not say that to their face. Actually being active or not is not relevant.
> 
> You're right, he was being a dick. No right to call Democrats pansies if you're not standing in front of the man.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I was on his side too, until that bullshit line. Told me everything I need to know about him "I am right, you are wrong, and nothing you say will change my mind". And being a gun owning, horse riding, military veteran, I am a bit more to the right than my D friends.

But the block function works, so I will just use that. I already have my own methods of filtering water on my big days (I am also an ultra runner).


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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Dang, dude...half-wheel the guy into a ditch. You need those hands to filter that water.


Ha. Thanks. 
A few years ago riding the Trans Am there was some guy that talked some **** in a forum. He happened to live near Savannah and I was headed south into Florida once I got to Va. I stopped by. He dont talk no **** no more, but it cost me thousands. I know being violent isn't the greatest method, but sometimes it's the surest and I've never turned it down as an option to shut certain MFrs up.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Joking aside, violence is a stupid solution for speech you don't like.

Between She&Me and this, yet more reasons why I prefer to ride solo. 😑


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## Pedalto_themetal (May 29, 2021)

This was a great filter. But did not fair well with murky water unless pre filtered first. Like alot of the 4 corners areas, but also in deep south, the murky water when paddling was sometimes quite filthy.

MSR MIOX


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Pedalto_themetal said:


> I prefer filters vs UV. I'm not touting expertise but relating my experience, and it has only been a good experience as I've never been sick. I've been using numerous filters since long before handheld UV devices were widely available. I've used tablets, and drops many times. What if your electronic device breaks? What if the batteries died? What if there wasn't running water and it dried up and had bugs and larvae? Oh, you would ride back to the trailhead to your car eh?


Your preference was/is obvious - I was questioning how you got to that point. You haven't given a clear answer as to your experience with UV treatments, so I assume it to be thin to none. A legitimate comparison would include ample experience with each, so I'll pass the thread off now and you can get back to your raving if you want.

If it breaks I'll do what I did to those three filters I owned: Toss it in the trash. I install new batteries if the current ones die. I pre-filter when necessary due to sediment. I'm happy to take from pools and tanks if no running water. Answering the questions isn't hard if you have answers.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

She&I said:


> Your preference was/is obvious - I was questioning how you got to that point. You haven't given a clear answer as to your experience with UV treatments, so I assume it to be thin to none. A legitimate comparison would include ample experience with each, so I'll pass the thread off now and you can get back to your raving if you want.
> 
> If it breaks I'll do what I did to those three filters I owned: Toss it in the trash. I install new batteries if the current ones die. I pre-filter when necessary due to sediment. I'm happy to take from pools and tanks if no running water. Answering the questions isn't hard if you have answers.


Yah know, if he smacked you upside your head, I wouldn't interfere. Karen&#8230;&#8230;

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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

I love the expression on his wife’s face. 


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Yo, Mensa man, you might want to remove your admission and evidence of a federal crime from the site.

You’re welcome. Keep up the improvement!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Personal attacks violate site posting rules. Check out the new warning system points to see how you too can earn a 1 month or longer time out. 😑


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> Personal attacks violate site posting rules. Check out the new warning system points to see how you too can earn a 1 month or longer time out.


Ok. So I might get timed out for this but&#8230;..
My old man was a DI, MP, HS head football coach and a federal agent. My grandmother was tougher than him. I'm a ex teamster that worked on a loading dock and I got full custody of my daughter at the age of eight. And I put her through college.

I'll try to word this carefully, but the behavior of certain "men", ie demonstrating passive aggressive sarcasm in certain environments would have to be backed up by the ability to defend yourself. I would never talk shite to a ex military rancher from Nevada that has biked in some of the harshest environments in this country.

Now did he go overboard. Yes, even I got a little butt hurt. But, the male Karens&#8230;. Must count to ten. I know rancher dude would probably step up and help me if I was in dire straits regardless of my beliefs. The other guy, nah.

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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

What an odd thread. Some murky water around here.

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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Don, what you just posted is fine. You did not go out and directly insult others and ask them to come fight you in person. Having beliefs is fine. Expressing beliefs is fine(if they dont violate site posting guidelines, namely politics and religion). What is not fine is using ones beliefs as an excuse for personal attacks and threats of violence.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

Pedalto_themetal said:


> The sign was at Tassi Spring, upper Grand wash flow lake mead/Parashant National Monument. I've pedaled around the Rincons, Catalina, etc and there are quite a few out there....


They have that same sign all the back at the Bundy ranch too.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I live in New England and the concerns included chemical pollutants as well as bacteria and viral contaminants. Heavy metal pollution is a very real concern. Lead, arsenic, cadmium, chromium, mercury. Land near old tanneries is especially bad. I live a mile from a Superfund site named Lead Mills. You can guess...

The Charles River is advertised as "clean" now too - as long as you don't stir up the sediment.

Up in the mountains of Maine, I use the MSR trailshot as a filter for bacteria and particulates.

In more populated areas, I'm trying the Grayl. It's a press filter that claims to catch bacteria, viruses, protozoa as well as some heavy metals and chemical pollutants. I've only used it a couple times so I can't give a long term review. But I haven't gotten sick or poisoned. (So far.)

You can read about it here: GRAYL | OnePress™ Global Protection - Purify water. Anywhere on earth.

Thoughts?

I think it's cool but a bit heavy and kinda hard to push filter. And I'm little worried that I won't know if I'm heavy metal poisoned for years.

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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> Don, what you just posted is fine. You did not go out and directly insult others and ask them to come fight you in person. Having beliefs is fine. Expressing beliefs is fine(if they dont violate site posting guidelines, namely politics and religion). What is not fine is using ones beliefs as an excuse for personal attacks and threats of violence.




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