# Rare Light FS Frame



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Hello guys! I've been toying with the idea of replacing my Yeti ASR Al frame with something new. I want a frame that's of course LIGHT, dual suspension, and most of all rare/unique. Maybe something that's hand-made in Europe or something. Since most of my ww parts come from Europe maybe a frame from there would give justice to my parts. Any inputs would be highly appreciated. Thanks!:thumbsup:


----------



## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

That's a good question...


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

You mean something like these?

http://www.mscbikes.com/bicis2010.php?idioma=CONS_ANG&any=2010&tipo=3

http://www.extralite.com/Products/F1_anglo.htm


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks guys. Are MSC bikes made in europe? It doesn't say anything where they're made from. It could be a European brand but frames are made elsewhere. I don'l like the look of the Extralite frame. Based on how their rear triangle is mounted on pretty flimsy mounts I bet their frames are as flexy as their parts. Any of you guys has any experience with Ghost bikes?


----------



## erik$ (May 16, 2006)

I have been riding Ghost for a couple of years. Primarily the carbon hardtail, that I like a lot, but also a little on the XC FS; RT, and the marathon/trail bike: AMR. 
I felt the RT was a bit prone to bob, both when seated and standing, and that's why I have chosen not to buy that one this year, but ride with a Canyon Lux instead. The AMR was redisigned for 10 and, allthough it's got more travel, pedals years better than the RT. For 11 the RT has incorporated a lot of the changes made to the AMR and will hopefully pedal a lot better. I will most likely ride that one the coming season. The weight also has gone down to ~2kg (~4,5lbs) including damper ans paint, size M. At least that's what they said in the Eurobike videos (you'll find them on youtube). The germans are usually pretty spot on regarding their specs. 

Disclaimer: The Norwegian importer is based in my hometown, and yes, I get some discount on the bikes, so watch out for the stealth advertising monster.


----------



## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

> Maybe something that's hand-made in Europe


Saying Europe you mean Taiwan...? 

From me:
http://www.pronghornracing.dk/index...uemart&Itemid=1&config=true&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Nope. I mean something that's really hand-made in Europe. Not a European brand that's being manufactured in Taiwan.


----------



## Epic-o (Feb 24, 2007)

Nordischer Rahmenbau...<1400gr frame


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

erik$ said:


> I have been riding Ghost for a couple of years. Primarily the carbon hardtail, that I like a lot, but also a little on the XC FS; RT, and the marathon/trail bike: AMR.
> I felt the RT was a bit prone to bob, both when seated and standing, and that's why I have chosen not to buy that one this year, but ride with a Canyon Lux instead. The AMR was redisigned for 10 and, allthough it's got more travel, pedals years better than the RT. For 11 the RT has incorporated a lot of the changes made to the AMR and will hopefully pedal a lot better. I will most likely ride that one the coming season. The weight also has gone down to ~2kg (~4,5lbs) including damper ans paint, size M. At least that's what they said in the Eurobike videos (you'll find them on youtube). The germans are usually pretty spot on regarding their specs.
> 
> Disclaimer: The Norwegian importer is based in my hometown, and yes, I get some discount on the bikes, so watch out for the stealth advertising monster.


I'm more interested in their RT Lector Pro Team. Are their frames made in germany or somewhere else? Their website claims that their bikes are "assembled" in germany. Building up a bike in germany with a frame that was built in taiwan can be claimed that the bike was assembled in germany.:skep:


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

That Norah frame kinda looks like my Yeti ASR shapewise. That's a good candidate and that's what I'm talking about. I visited their site and too bad its in german and google translate won't work on their site.


----------



## Epic-o (Feb 24, 2007)

It's fully custom, the price won't be low...expect more than 4000$


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Most production carbon frames will be made in Taiwan as that's just where it's affordable to make carbon. Storck makes their frames in Germany if I remember correctly

http://www.storck-bicycle.de/en/web-anz-bikes.asp?ID=3030&ID2=3031&sub=3000&objekt=Mountain Bikes


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks rockyuphill. If I can confirm that storck makes their own carbon frames in germany then that would be on top of my list! Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Just went through the Storck website. Looks like they do it in Taiwan too. Too bad.
http://www.storck-bicycle.de/en/web-anz-tech-detail2.asp?ID=5040&ID2=5044&sub=5000&objekt=Production

http://www.storck-bicycle.de/en/web-anz-tech.asp?ID=5040&sub=5000&objekt1=Production&objekt3=

Are there any other fulsus carbon frames out there that isn't made in Taiwan?? Aside from the uber expensive Norah frame.


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

At some point you just have to accept that unless you're having a carbon bike frame made by McLaren, Williams or Trek, it will likely be made in Taiwan. It would be like hoping for locally made Pandas or Kangaroos, sometimes things just come from the part of the world they're best suited to.

Really you want to buy the bike that rides the best in the weight category you're after and not get too wrapped up in where it's from. Otherwise you might end up with an exotic bike you hate to ride and can't get rid of.


----------



## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Until carbon frame production requires less hand work (like the sanding down for hours after they come out of the vacuum molds) it will be cheaper to do it where the wages are lower for pure and simple grunt work.


----------



## erik$ (May 16, 2006)

I don't think the RT frames are built in Germany. The 07-08-09 HTX frame was similar to the NoSaint MaxiAri or something and the price tag of the latter indicates that it's not handmade in Germany, nor is NoSaint a german based company. If I remember correctly the Ghost frames are marked "Handmade" and with small letters "Hand assembled in Germany".


----------



## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Why not get a good bike that works and then give it a custom paint job?
Another Yeti, the new 2011 Scapel, Epic, Blur, Giant Anthem... then do custom colors.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

morrisgarages said:


> That Norah frame kinda looks like my Yeti ASR shapewise. That's a good candidate and that's what I'm talking about. I visited their site and too bad its in german and google translate won't work on their site.


Have you got a link to the site?

I'ves earched both Nora, didn't turn up anything promising, and nordischer rahmenbau which returned a german site with only a hardtail frame.

Thanks


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Roughly translated it appears to say they'll custom build you whatever frame you want if you have the money, starting at 5000 Euros + tax. .

"Maßanfertigung ab 5000 Euro inkl 19% dt. MwSt"

http://www.nordischer-rahmenbau.de/rahmen.html

http://www.nordischer-rahmenbau.de/Neuigkeiten.html


----------



## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

What about the Funk LaRuta built in the good ol' USA out of Titanium. My dream FS bike for sure.
G

http://www.funkcycles.com/la_ruta_bike.php


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks guys! G-Live, there are a lot of bikes that are still handmade in the US but the handmade bikes there are all pretty heavy and made out of all aluminum. I know carbon made in Taiwan is good but majority of our sought after weight weenie carbon parts are made in europe like schmolke, mcfk, clavicula, etc. So how come carbon frames from europe are so hard to come by?


----------



## scoutcat (Mar 30, 2008)

morrisgarages said:


> Thanks guys! G-Live, there are a lot of bikes that are still handmade in the US but the handmade bikes there are all pretty heavy and made out of all aluminum. I know carbon made in Taiwan is good but majority of our sought after weight weenie carbon parts are made in europe like schmolke, mcfk, clavicula, etc. So how come carbon frames from europe are so hard to come by?


uh, no. whos making custom alu frames? steel and ti but probably very few alu. look at calfee and independent fab. however, look at the cannondales, pretty f-in sweet and superlight:

http://www.cannondale.com/usa/usaen...calpel/Details/2599-1VP0LREP-SCALPEL-ULTIMATE


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Intense, Ventana, and Turner are handmade aluminum frames made in the US.


----------



## Epic-o (Feb 24, 2007)

I would buy the new Scalpel, you won't find nothing cheaper, lighter and with lifetime warranty...


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Why does it have to be boutique German? They clearly don't make the best carbon....just the _*most expensive*_. And, forget about warranties...


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

I want something unique and something that you won't see on the trail that often that's maed in europe. Just thinking about it though. I'm very happy with my Yeti ASR Al but with the nice light boutique parts that I'm giving it, I'm thinking maybe a nice boutique european frame will go nicely with my parts.


----------



## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Hey. it's your money. I would buy the new Scapel and trick it out.


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

limba said:


> Hey. it's your money. I would buy the new Scapel and trick it out.


Eliflap has already done that to the nth degree...


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

The Scalpel is nice too but you're stuck with the Lefty and I already have a nice light fork on my yeti. A tuned DT Swiss XRC100. And a Scalpel has less than 4" of travel. But thanks for the inputs guys.


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Sounds like you need one of these frames then... They're still made in Madison Wisconsin.


----------



## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

rarity/exclusivity is not as important compared to how good the bike actually rides - you might end up paying alot of lolly for a complete dog of a bike - that only you would want to ride 'cos it cost you arm+leg 

i'd get a 2011 S-Works Epic perhaps with the carbon wheelset - or even better with innolite tubs + the new racing ralph ht pacestar tires

http://www.bike-components.de/produ...h-HT-Evo-PaceStar-Faltreifen-Modell-2011.html

then strip it right down & remove all the ugly paint + graphics - then either have it re-painted or leave it stealthy ud carbon - no-one else would have one of those! :thumbsup:

...edit to fix link...


----------



## madtorker (Feb 3, 2010)

How about Nicolai? It's not carbon but very very high end.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=413314

http://www.nicolai.net/index.php?article_id=48&clang=0

Made in Germany.

Edited.. K > C :-0


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

SPIN is german and handmade 
But a long waiting list.

There´s some carbon gurus here and there, maybe some € can solve your problem?


----------



## Epic-o (Feb 24, 2007)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> SPIN is german and handmade
> But a long waiting list.
> 
> There´s some carbon gurus here and there, maybe some € can solve your problem?


They don't make FS...


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Nothing made in Germany is made in Germany.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks for all the inputs guys! I really want to stay away from a brand you can see on almost every trail. So sorry but, any s-works, trek, giant, cannondale, scott, or other big name brands just doesn't interest me anymore. I have a Yeti ASR already and I think the Yeti is in the same category (or close) to all the brands I mentioned. The Nicolai looks promising! I don't like their weight though (like any handmade aluminum frame). But I sure like their "Made in Germany" stamped on their chainstay! It's a good candidate! Thanks again guys! Please keep your inputs coming!


----------



## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

Just by curiosity, why 'made in europe'?
Almost year ago I faced similar dilemma what fs frame should I go for, big guys or something a bit unique...
I've chosen pronghorn, which although based in denmark is made in taiwan.
Despite our old us/european sentiments, nowadays that's the place with top notch carbon technology.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

I'm just curious and really interested I guess. Where I ride, I always see the "regulars" I mentioned and have never really seen any unique boutique frames from europe here. Plus most of my ww parts (schmolke, dt swiss, formula, tune) are from europe so I want to match it with my frame too. The more I research on Nicolai the more they seem to be a good candidate. They're kinda like the Ventana or Turner of Germany.


----------



## CanuckRider (Jul 27, 2007)

I also have a Yeti ASR-SL and love it. If I had the money this is what I would get complete with a Lefty fork:

Kent Eriksen Yeti


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Epic-o said:


> They don't make FS...


Maybe they will make a copy of your favorite frame, I know Ruegamer did for one rider here in MTBR.


----------



## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> Thanks guys! G-Live, there are a lot of bikes that are still handmade in the US but the handmade bikes there are all pretty heavy and made out of all aluminum. I know carbon made in Taiwan is good but majority of our sought after weight weenie carbon parts are made in europe like schmolke, mcfk, clavicula, etc. So how come carbon frames from europe are so hard to come by?


4.2# Titanium FS frame is heavy? Really? Guess I am further out of the loop that I thought. Did you check the link?
G


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Maybe they will make a copy of your favorite frame, I know Ruegamer did for one rider here in MTBR.


 My friend has a Ruegamer road bike with Storck Stiletto forks, Clavicula cranks AX-Lightness saddle and it weighed 10.2 pounds!!!


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Sorry G but no 29ers for me. Thanks anyway and its a gorgeous frame indeed!


----------



## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

morrisgarages said:


> I'm just curious and really interested I guess. Where I ride, I always see the "regulars" I mentioned and have never really seen any unique boutique frames from europe here. Plus most of my ww parts (schmolke, dt swiss, formula, tune) are from europe so I want to match it with my frame too. The more I research on Nicolai the more they seem to be a good candidate. They're kinda like the Ventana or Turner of Germany.


Your point may be tecnically inconsistent but understand were your coming from. 
Specialized, Trek and Cannondale make great riding bikes, maybe the best in the business. Still, the small boutique frame makers, and their exclusive hand made frames have a different appeal 
Funny, I live in the country of Extralite, Formula, Paduano and such, but the two bikes I have enjoyed the most are an AMP b4 and a Turner Nitrous.


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Something else to keep an eye out for

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/10/04/focus-debuts-prototype-fsl-lightweight-full-suspension-xc-racer/


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

^^Rocky, that looks like a cleaned-up Pronghorn...


----------



## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

How about canadian designed / chinese made? The new Rocky Mountain Element Team RSL is 4.3 pounds for the frame (16.5").


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

my dream bike...
https://reviews.mtbr.com/interbike/files/2010/09/edict-featured.jpg


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

You could look at the Focus FSL. The frame has a claimed weight of 4.30lbs including shock and it's from Germany.

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/focus-mountain-bike-range-2011-27534

https://www.focus-bikes.com/gb/en/b...6/subcategory/ladyadvance/model/fsl-10-1.html










*Edit:* The Focus carbon frames are actually made in Taiwan or China. The bikes are only assembled in Germany. Interesting thread about Focus:

https://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12725895

.


----------



## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

Kent Eriksen Custom, Yeti ASR-C rear triangle. Yeti dogbone
style Ti frame. Lefty fork with a 650 wheel, 26 rear wheel. If that
isn't enough, just give him a call and he will help you make
anything you can dream of.

Best, John


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks again guys! But not that I think bikes made in Asia are not very good but let's try to keep inputs about light full suspension handmade frames made in europe. This isn't about how good Asian made frames are but on how good handmade european frames can be. But, that Kent Eriksen bike with a Yeti ASR rear is HOT!!! I wonder how much it weighs? I can't believe what I'm missing with all the other gorgeous rare bikes out there that you don't see in your lbs!


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

John, you are going to make me lose sleep over your suggestion!:arf: I think my search for the perfect boutique frame in Europe is going to end in Steamboat Springs, Colorado! Talk about B-L-I-N-G!!!:yikes: I think his version of the Ti ASR is one bike I will likely keep forever and pass on to my future kids! I asked Kent's local dealer here if they can make a Yeti ASR rear out of Ti as well. I don't want to break my carbon rear and end up not getting a replacement once Yeti runs out of it. Thank you so much for the tip John!


----------



## Kris (Jun 15, 2004)

What about a Look 996? I don't think they make them anymore, at least it isn't on the North American site anymore, but I'm sure you could find one online. I'm not certain it's made in France but my guess is that it is.


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The odds of finding a frame that you'll keep in perpetuity is slim unless your riding style and skill never progress or evolve. Especially if it's really a project bike, it's never really done. 

So buying a tweaky frame as an investment won't be high on the Bloomberg list. I've owned a few frames that were the ultimate in ride quality only to find one a couple of years later that was significantly more ultimate. :skep:


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Well I think I'd stick to XC riding for the majority of my life Rocky and I think a custom handmade Ti frame with the tried and tested single pivot suspension would be pretty much timeless.


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> The odds of finding a frame that you'll keep in perpetuity is slim unless your riding style and skill never progress or evolve. Especially if it's really a project bike, it's never really done.
> 
> So buying a tweaky frame as an investment won't be high on the Bloomberg list. I've owned a few frames that were the ultimate in ride quality only to find one a couple of years later that was significantly more ultimate. :skep:


Rocky is totally right - I thought my 3-pound Cannondale aluminum frame was going to be a permanent keeper...until I found my recent Giant. Why did I sell it for good money? Because my riding style changed and improved at the same time and that C'Dale was going to be a hanging wall unit otherwise. I am not a pack rat and is constantly downsizing my stable.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

But we're talking about a custom handmade Ti (or carbon) frame here. So I guess giving it up for something else won't be as easy as giving up on a cannondale or giant frame. I could just get a "beater" bike specific for my new riding skills but not give up on the custom Ti frame. I just think custom made Ti frames are keepers.:thumbsup:


----------



## Nozes (Feb 18, 2008)

+1 for the Nicolai.
Even it is not carbon,it sure is the finest from Germay,and you will find a big cult following the brand,based on that industrial look,flawless construction and "custom everything" options.
I would sacrifice a couple undred grams on a lightweight FS project for a custom Nicolai frame anytime!


----------



## Mighty Matt (Apr 22, 2009)

the new felt stuff is pretty cool


----------



## SmilMick (Apr 9, 2006)

morrisgarages said:


> But we're talking about a custom handmade Ti (or carbon) frame here. So I guess giving it up for something else won't be as easy as giving up on a cannondale or giant frame. I could just get a "beater" bike specific for my new riding skills but not give up on the custom Ti frame. I just think custom made Ti frames are keepers.:thumbsup:


I work at a bike shop, and after years of watching bikes come in and out the door, I cant think of one "fully custom boutique dream ride" older than 5 years old that still looks apealing in my eyes. There is no avoiding "old" and here in the bicycle industry, 5 years in ancient.

I hate to say it, but in five years, most of those around you will look at your bike as an outdated relic that should be hung in the garage to be sold at a slight profit in another 15 years.

I'll be the one laughing at the trailhead when you show up for a ride in five years with the same outdated euro trash lol

Get something sensible. If its not sensible, people will point for the wrong reasons.


----------



## Deuce9er (May 11, 2010)

*Skyde...*



morrisgarages said:


> Hello guys! I've been toying with the idea of replacing my Yeti ASR Al frame with something new. I want a frame that's of course LIGHT, dual suspension, and most of all rare/unique. Maybe something that's hand-made in Europe or something. Since most of my ww parts come from Europe maybe a frame from there would give justice to my parts. Any inputs would be highly appreciated. Thanks!:thumbsup:


I know there have been a lot of made in / sourced in suggestions...here is another.

I like hydroformed Ti. I like the look of the Titus Rockstar Ti (it's a 29er)...Titus does not have much, if any, room to work with in making custom hydro Ti 29ers (similar to the Rockstar, but with custom geo...). I've asked.

IMO, next best option for custom formed Ti (this is the route I plan to go, unless Titus or another builder is willing to shape a FS Ti 29er)...
Skyde: French Builder (the Ti for this project was XACD Sourced...)
Rare and Unique "One Off" Type Stuff Possible...
Plus, you like Yeti...how about a Ti 575?





































Imagine this as a 3.75" Travel Ti ASR...anything is possible...YMMV...


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

SmilMick
I'll be the one laughing at the trailhead when you show up for a ride in five years with the same outdated euro trash lol
Get something sensible. If its not sensible said:


> Well I'd still rather ride a 5 year old custom Ti bike than your department store mall bike that everyone else has. There are exceptions to your 5 year rule-I don't think a classic custom hardtail Ti can ever be outdated.
> 
> Deuce, thanks for the tip! I saw that too and it really is gorgeous but I'm kinda leaning towards a Kent Eriksen frame right now. Check out his welds and finish. Flawless!
> 
> From KE website:


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Morrisgarages, how about a handmade in Italy FRM FS.Go for the FRM carbon fork & your Schmolke, MCFK, Cav, etc with the new Tune hubs, capim superspoke & new Enve carbon rims.I'm sure very few riders have ever seen this bike.Check out the FRM catalog @ royalbicycyles.com


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

xc71 said:


> Morrisgarages, how about a handmade in Italy FRM FS.Go for the FRM carbon fork & your Schmolke, MCFK, Cav, etc with the new Tune hubs, capim superspoke & new Enve carbon rims.I'm sure very few riders have ever seen this bike.Check out the FRM catalog @ royalbicycyles.com


Are you thinking of the FRM 12HP (100mm rear travel, claimed weight 5.5lbs including rear shock) or the FRM 10HP (65mm rear travel, claimed weight 4.4lbs).

Pages 28 & 29 of the FRM catalogue:
http://www.frmbike.de/catalog/files/downloads/42.pdf

The claimed weights for the complete bikes specced with lots of FRM parts actually seem relatively heavy? You'd have thought that with all those parts on they would be lighter than that.

Pictured below: FRM 12HP


----------



## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Well FRM did use tires that are not only on the hefty side (about 620-650g range) but also rather slow rolling compared to say if they'd gone with RaceKing 2.2s or Racing Ralph 2.25s. Its funny, they went with durable tires and not as durable everywhere else. Also if you read the specs the tubes are listed as half a liter of sealant. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't use that much sealant even in a 29x2.4 RR.


----------



## Nozes (Feb 18, 2008)

Ohh,the beauty of a inverted stem with a rider bar... :bluefrown:


----------



## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Nozes said:


> Ohh,the beauty of a inverted stem with a rider bar... :bluefrown:


a rider bar eh?


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Just wondering, does anyone have any idea how much a KE Ti with Yeti ASR frame would weigh? I just spoke to Kent and he said around 4.5-5 pounds. Well a .5lb difference is big for us ww. How much more does Ti weigh compared to a Aluminum frame?


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

4.5 to 5.0 pounds would cover the range of frame sizes, and maybe some custom tweaks for tube thickness depending what your riding style might be. It'll also depend how much BB flex you're prepared to live with, if KE stiffens the frame up with bigger or thicker wall tubes, it will weigh much more than an alloy frame of similar size.

Here's what it would look like with the aspect ratio fixed so the wheels are round again. That was driving me crazy. :skep: I also realized that this particular bike is a 96'er, that's a 29'er Lefty which is what looked off.









But this bike with one of those new Ti crown/steer tube Fox forks would be spiffy.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks rocky! And thanks for fixing the pic. So I'm pretty much sure that I'll be getting a heavier frame compared to my present Yeti ASR-Al when I get a KE Ti frame with the same dimensions/size right? Heavier by about how many grams do you guys think? 200g? Or hopefully NOT a pound?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

SKYDE was very cool, hydroformed Ti?

Absolutely unique I think, Eriksen is too usual looking I think.
Everyone does in this way, straight tubing cutted in various ways.


----------



## IM31408 (Dec 24, 2008)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> SKYDE was very cool, hydroformed Ti?
> 
> Absolutely unique I think, Eriksen is too usual looking I think.
> Everyone does in this way, straight tubing cutted in various ways.


Couldn't agree with you more. Those tubes on the Skyde look sweet.


----------



## Ansible (Jan 30, 2004)

BMC fourstroke carbon. 4.4 lbs, and at 3300 for the frame you won't see too many on the trails. I guess BMC is well known but not as well known as yeti.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Well the Skyde does look nice and sexy but what put me off is their finish on those Ti tubes and their welds. Looks like low quality Ti and the welds aren't anywhere near as pretty as how Kent does his. But thanks for your inputs guys! I like your point Mattias. The straight tubing style does seems like a classic roadie thing.


----------



## Deuce9er (May 11, 2010)

*Unique & Rare...*

...may not always go hand in hand. Although not all are rare, I consider these unique (may not be light)...





































Not a fan, per se, of any of those, but again, rare and/or unique. 

I do like this quirky one, however (call me crazy...):









To have a European, custom, light, unique, rare, full suspension, all in one package is a fun challenge (some have included Ti, making it even more challenging)...

There are many European bicycle manufacturers, some custom...not all inclusive:
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=116546

Again, I like hydroformed Ti & 29ers...









Or, just rare & unique 29ers...


















I am going to ride *NAKED* someday...


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I see almost no difference in the weld beads between a skyde and a eriksen.
The Eriksen has a better photo technique for sure but the real diference is almost nil I think.

The chinese titanium has gone a big step forward nowadays, that´s not crappy copycats today.

I would choose quality chinese titanium 9 of 10 times just because of price/quality ratio.

A american product often have a price that don´t reflect the quality and workmanship.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Beware of buying Ti chinese frames. Make sure its really Ti you're buying. I think there is a difference with the weld beads of the Kent frame and skyde. Kent's beads are more even and finer than that of the skyde. Skyde's weldings is like any other aluminum welding only a bit smaller. Plus their finish on their tube's is shall I say, "industrial" and straight out of their Ti tube pile.


----------



## Deuce9er (May 11, 2010)

*Not sure about weight, but meets all other criteria...*

Dutch Company Van Nicholas Valkyr


Bike Radar said:


> Van Nicholas will also add a full-suspension rig to their range called Valkyr. Aimed at the cross-country and marathon crowd, Valkyr will boast 100mm of travel at either end with a faux-bar rear end - fully crafted in titanium, of course. Oversized and hydroformed tubes will help bolster the front end against torsional flex and there's even a tapered head tube to fit the latest crop of suspension forks.











https://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/...latest-titanium-bikes-from-van-nicholas-27772
Shipping now included to the US... :thumbsup:


----------



## SmilMick (Apr 9, 2006)

morrisgarages said:


> Well I'd still rather ride a 5 year old custom Ti bike than your department store mall bike that everyone else has. There are exceptions to your 5 year rule-I don't think a classic custom hardtail Ti can ever be outdated.


I understand your point, but I feel like that would have been a more valid a few years ago when carbon wasnt on the radar like it is today. Years ago, steel was on the way out, Aluminum was near the top, and Titanium was the hot stuff. Now, these days, carbon is the hot stuff. There is nothing on the horizon. Steel, aluminum, titanium, carbon, whats next? Nothing. So why would you settle for second best?

And as long as that is the case, I dont see the point in spending $$$$ on a titanium bike that doesnt really stand out in any regard except for maybe its color (if its raw or brushed Ti)

Get a carbon bike and ride the hell out of it for five years or until it breaks. Which ever comes first. Thats what a "real" rider would do


----------



## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

SmilMick said:


> I understand your point, but I feel like that would have been a more valid a few years ago when carbon wasnt on the radar like it is today. Years ago, steel was on the way out, Aluminum was near the top, and Titanium was the hot stuff. Now, these days, carbon is the hot stuff. There is nothing on the horizon. Steel, aluminum, titanium, carbon, whats next? Nothing. So why would you settle for second best?
> 
> And as long as that is the case, I dont see the point in spending $$$$ on a titanium bike that doesnt really stand out in any regard except for maybe its color (if its raw or brushed Ti)
> 
> Get a carbon bike and ride the hell out of it for five years or until it breaks. Which ever comes first. Thats what a "real" rider would do


Not sure I agree with Ti being second, I think it's on the same level as carbon. It's better than carbon in some ways, and carbon's better in other's.

Some people do get lucky and have a carbon frame that last's them 5 years, but a lot don't. How many broken Ti frames have you seen? Plus Ti frames have a 'timeless' look. Assuming you get a raw or brushed frame it will be cool for a long time, if not for ever. On the other hand a carbon frame with a flashy paint job (which most of the nice one's do have), will not be cool in a few years, I can almost guarantee you that.

Don't get me wrong though, I think carbon is a great material, I just think Ti is also a great material. I ride a carbon bike, and everything that I can afford on it is carbon.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

+1 Colin! I guess some people just don't get the handcrafted beauty and art plus the longevity of a nice Ti frame. I also have nothing against carbon (the rear end of the KE frame I want has a carbon Yeti rear) since almost all my parts are carbon but the "WOW" factor of a carbon frame has lost it's spark. You see carbon frames in department stores nowadays. They're just so common now and that's my OP for this thread. I'm looking for something rare and handcrafted. Though my search for something european ended in Steamboat Springs. Just had my measurements taken for a KE frame. Now guys, please don't give that "just ride the hell out of a nice tough aluminum frame", "it's not about the frame material, blah blah blah". If we're all being practical here, we'd all be riding Giants-which I totally love riding (Trance). But whoever said owning a Ferrari is practical?


----------



## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

morrisgarages please make sure you post
pictures of the bike when its finished. I will
be looking forward to seeing it. I hope it will
be everything you wanted.

Best, John

Best, John


----------



## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

*^^^+1^^^​*


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

I sure will John! Thanks to you I found out about the gorgeous Kent Eriksen frames. It will still take a lot of time though before I get my hands on it. Kent said build time is around 5 weeks plus shipping or a total of 3 months max. Thanks for helping me in my search John! 
Sorry Jake but what's that?


----------



## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

_An agreement on seein' the new ride_


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Sure Jake! But again, it's going to be awhile! Might try to post the CAD design when I get it. Will try to get what your thoughts are.


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Make sure you do some research about Ti tubing choices and frame survivability. If you check out the big Ti brand (and the frame builder) threads on this forum you'll find that they have their share of frame failures when you go for the lightest possible Ti tubing rather than optimizing the strength to weight ratio. Very light weight titanium tubes can also result in flexy frames because the tube diameter is not as large as alloy or carbon frames. 

The place where titanium has been optimum is the classic hardtail frame design where you want something as survivable and comfortable as steel at a reasonable weight saving. That's where those hydroformed titanium tubes could be an advantage assuming that process is well sorted. 

As with any major frame purchase, I wouldn't make that leap without some test riding to get a sense of what you're getting into.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks rocky. I don't think you really can't test ride a custom made frame. Anyway, I'm quite happy with the basic geometry of my current Yeti ASR and since I'll be getting the KE frame with the Yeti rear plus a few tweaks by Kent I don't think I'd be pretty far off with what to expect. I also already told Kent that I want a little more stiffness on the BB area since that's where my ASR tends to be lacking.


----------



## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

What size and how much does your current Yeti frame weigh???


----------



## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

For the people who don't know Kent Eriksen
he was the founder of Moots. So I think he knows
what to do with Ti.

Best, John


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> Thanks rocky. I don't think you really can't test ride a custom made frame. Anyway, I'm quite happy with the basic geometry of my current Yeti ASR and since I'll be getting the KE frame with the Yeti rear plus a few tweaks by Kent I don't think I'd be pretty far off with what to expect. I also already told Kent that I want a little more stiffness on the BB area since that's where my ASR tends to be lacking.


What changes are you thinking of to make the custom frame suit you better than a Yeti ASR carbon?

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/asr5-carbon-frame-10-39490

The thing that I'd be interested in with a custom full suspension frame would be seeing if it could be fitted with larger long lasting pivot bearings which could be largely maintenance free.

Pictured below: 2010 Yeti ASR Carbon


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

WR304, that's an ASR-5. I have and want the original tad 4" travel ASR.


----------



## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

If you want unique, you should head over to the frame builders section and get one of them to make you a frame. Totally one-off.

Other than that, I think Nicolai has the best welds in the buisiness. You can totally customize the geometry etc, hundreds of color choices etc. If you want to show off the welds get something ano, like the ano bronze, just fabulous.

If you want something ti, seriously talk to Kent Eriksen.

5 of the last six bikes I have purchased have been US or German made. But I bought them because they were the best bikes for the job. I have never seen another Nicolai (or Knolly) on the trail. I have seen them at Whistler.

If you never want to see a similar bike, there are many more rare then a Yeti or Turner, and some of those are arguable as good or better bikes. If I were you. I would go Nicolai. Mine only took 3 months to get to me, which is a reasonable wait period imo. If you must have Ti, try Kent out. But imo, ti bikes are best made burly, since the density of the metal is so high, you cant make large cross section tubing, so it ends up being flexy. Aluminum and carbon are far better for lightweight bikes for this reason. Ti can be made light and strong, but not stiff, and never cheaply.


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> WR304, that's an ASR-5. I have and want the original tad 4" travel ASR.


I like the look of the Yeti ASR-5 more than the Yeti ASR Carbon 4" travel frame. Mostly because of the straighter top tube and lack of integrated seat mast that give it cleaner lines.

The Yeti ASR Carbon 4" travel frame has a claimed weight of 4.25lbs approx for the medium size frame.

http://www.yeticycles.com/01_Bikes/reviews/ASRC_200801WhatMtBike.pdf

The Yeti website isn't that easy to find much information about the bikes on but there is a mention of a redesigned rear swingarm in the audio commentary. If you can get one of the newest Yeti swingarms for your custom build with a 142x12mm thru axle it could help improve the handling. Are you considering internal cable routing also?

Audio commentary on this page discussing the Yeti ASR Carbon swingarm:
http://www.yeticycles.com/#/bikes/ASRCarbon/3/

Pictured below:
Yeti ASR Carbon 4" travel frame


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

WR304, thanks for mentioning internal cable routing! Let me ask Kent if he can do that. If not for all the cables maybe some of them. Thanks 'cause I never thought of that.


----------



## mkimber (Sep 10, 2008)

What about an Orbea Oiz carbon?

http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?layout=bikes&taxid=70&pid=409


----------



## Deuce9er (May 11, 2010)

Has anyone seen one of these on the trail? Or in real life, for that matter?

Storck Organic Light








https://www.storck-bicycle.de/en/web-anz-bikes.asp?ID=3030&ID2=3032&sub=3000&objekt=

With Xentis Wheels (~9kg, built as more trail/AM)









All that one needs, is a Carbon Lefty...


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Hello again guys! I'm still waiting for my Kent frame but before its too late, would there be any real advantages of having a integrated seat post/mast made to my frame? Aside from its cleaner/rarer looks? I'm contemplating on having Kent built my frame with one. Thanks guys!


----------



## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> Hello again guys! I'm still waiting for my Kent frame but before its too late, would there be any real advantages of having a integrated seat post/mast made to my frame? Aside from its cleaner/rarer looks? I'm contemplating on having Kent built my frame with one. Thanks guys!


Only if you have a saddle that you are happy with and will not change. With the different rail heights that saddles have, I'd think you'd want at least a few cm worth of adjustment. 
G


----------



## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

+1 on what G-Live said. I have a Yeti ASR-C plus a road 
bike with a seat mast and will say they are stiffer than frames
with a normal seat post. However they both have a small amount
of adjustment, plus I have a spare saddle for each just in case.
I really like the idea of the seat mast and have not had any 
problems so far.

Best, John


----------



## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

deuce, thanks for posting 
that has to be the most hideous bike i have seen in a long time...i'd hate to think they actually sold any


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks for your inputs guys! I'm pretty much happy and comfortable on my Speedneedle and might probably be using the same saddle on my Kent frame. I'm just waiting for a response from Kent on his thoughts for a integrated seat mast/post.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

After 4 months of waiting. Its finally here. And as promised, here are some pics.

















































Most of the parts from this will go to the Kent frame. I'm sure its going to be a bit heavier but it sure is going to be a lot prettier!


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Shame on you Morris  Such a beauty and no pic on scale. 
Pics please.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

WR304 said:


> *Edit**:* The Focus carbon frames are actually made in Taiwan or China.http://


Along with 95% of the bikes on the planet.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

doccoraje said:


> Shame on you Morris  Such a beauty and no pic on scale.
> Pics please.


Sorry. Here ya go. Not bad eh?:thumbsup: Compared to a mass produced frame I believe it would fall under a medium size.


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

That's pretty light! I'd say it's certainly lighter than the aluminum medium ASR. My ASR-C in carbon without the seatclamp assembly or the chainstay protector, but including the press in BB bearings and quite obviously the seatmast was 2160g (4.76lbs).

And that frame is absolutely beautiful. Well done!

How are you liking the Lightning cranks? Are they holding up well?


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks, great weight. :thumbsup:


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks BlownCivic! I was actually surprised with the weight of the frame. I initially thought that it would be heavier since my original frame is a small size one. I guess the lost of weight came from the removal of the bb area joint knuckle, top tube knuckle, that small support connecting the top tube and seat tube, plus I requested Kent that the bb shell be made into a 68mm one instead of the original 73mm of my Yeti That way I also get to get rid of the spacer for my Lightning Cranks which btw, I absolutely love. Aside from the flimsy clear coating over it, I don't have any other problems so far. Their clear coating can be removed by fingernails!


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> But we're talking about a custom handmade Ti (or carbon) frame here. So I guess giving it up for something else won't be as easy as giving up on a cannondale or giant frame. I could just get a "beater" bike specific for my new riding skills but not give up on the custom Ti frame. I just think custom made Ti frames are keepers.:thumbsup:


I think your right. It's a very special frame. Just upgrade it as forks, shocks drivetrains, brakes and other parts get better.


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks Shawn! That's what I was thinking too. I'd just update the parts as technology gets better.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> Thanks Shawn! That's what I was thinking too. I'd just update the parts as technology gets better.


Here's an idea: I have been upgrading my San Andreas since '96. I was recently looking for a shock for it. X-fusion has 2010 air shocks at a steal right now. They are so cheap, it's a good idea to pick one up for a spare. They don't advertise them. You have to call them. I bought one and they are better then Fox shocks.


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

But the X-Fusion RCX or RLX are 20gms heavier than the Fox RP23.


----------



## Vecsus (Apr 17, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> But the X-Fusion RCX or RLX are 20gms heavier than the Fox RP23.


Omfg!! 20grams?!?


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Vecsus said:


> Omfg!! 20grams?!?


You've obviously forgotten that this is the Weight Weenie forum... :skep:


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Sorry for these late pictures. I'm having too much fun riding her that I couldn't find the chance to clean her up for some pics. Well here she is after a bike wash. Too bad she'll all be dusty and dirty again tomorrow.:thumbsup:


----------



## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

nice bike, I like the Yeti ASR and this is just the next level up with the frame and build, well done


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

That is very nice!!!


----------



## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

The bike came out great, good luck
with it.

Best, John


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks guys! John, I have you to thank for suggesting the Kent Eriksen to me a few months ago. Thank you very much for leading me to the right path.


----------



## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm glad you are happy with your bike and will say
that it is the nicest bike I have seen. I love those
Eriksen/Yeti frames.

Best, John


----------



## magpies14 (Jun 24, 2009)

hi morrisgarages...what grip shift u're using....looks cool...


----------



## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Beautiful bike.

Very clean looking. :thumbsup:



magpies14 said:


> hi morrisgarages...what grip shift u're using....looks cool...


Looks like Sram attacks.


----------



## bikemaniack (Feb 6, 2010)

I think it's a Sram Plasma Grips


----------



## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks guys! Yup bikemaniack, I have the old Sram Plasma Grips. Got it off ebay good as new.


----------

