# your favorite rim brake setup of all time?



## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

so, what are your favorite rim brake setups of all time, and why? don`t forget to tell what levers you were using, and pads, and rims.
me? a major toss-up. arch supremes, shimano carbon boosters, ceramic 217s, shimano ceramic pads, slr plus canti levers. really unbelievable stopping power, and decent rim clearance thanks to the slr plus levers. the boosters and hard pads made an otherwise mushy setup reasonably solid. too bad the ceramic coating turns to glass so quickly.
paul crosstops, same levers, brushed rhynolites. best modulation i have ever had, just plain amazing for rolling down steep stuff at the edge of lock-up. problem: the brakes seem to require a little bit too much spring tension to open back up again, which leads to tired hands on longer rides.
repaired at work: cannondale with pepperoni fork, 986 cantis, one of them was done for and had to get replaced with an avid shorty 40. force 40 cam-style 'cable hangers', ritchey hard ano rims. really just plain scary power, it made that pepperoni fork shudder like a 120mm single crown fork with a disc.
also repaired at work: pedersen se brakes, slr plus levers. yow. 
well, hopefully there are some other people out there with the same passion for rim brakes that i have... don't forget to post pics if you've got them.
tim


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

*i really liked my dc 987 and slr's*

and i'm VERY prejudiced against discs...complexity, $$$, weight (ok, if i spend a million buck they are as light as v's) plus i don't ride in muck everyday.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Well it was Magura HS33s until I found out how much better disc brakes were over these excellent brakes. The Magura rim brakes were a nice improvement over all the cantilever and v-brakes I'd had.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

uphiller said:


> so, what are your favorite rim brake setups of all time, and why? don`t forget to tell what levers you were using, and pads, and rims.
> me? a major toss-up. arch supremes, shimano carbon boosters, ceramic 217s, shimano ceramic pads, slr plus canti levers. really unbelievable stopping power, and decent rim clearance thanks to the slr plus levers. the boosters and hard pads made an otherwise mushy setup reasonably solid. too bad the ceramic coating turns to glass so quickly.
> paul crosstops, same levers, brushed rhynolites. best modulation i have ever had, just plain amazing for rolling down steep stuff at the edge of lock-up. problem: the brakes seem to require a little bit too much spring tension to open back up again, which leads to tired hands on longer rides.
> repaired at work: cannondale with pepperoni fork, 986 cantis, one of them was done for and had to get replaced with an avid shorty 40. force 40 cam-style 'cable hangers', ritchey hard ano rims. really just plain scary power, it made that pepperoni fork shudder like a 120mm single crown fork with a disc.
> ...


Hey Tim,
I too like "tuning" rim brakes, especially canti brakes. It really is an art balancing cable drag, spring tension, straddle cable height, arm width, etc. There are so many variables that make a big difference over a set up just bolted on. I now have Magura Marta discs on my everyday rider and Im extremely happy with them. They dont require much expertise in set up though. Basically you just bolt them on and youre done. I guess thats better. Im just gonna miss working on my brakes! This is where my vintage bikes come into play!

I think, like you said the best rim brake ever is the Arch Supreme. Just a great feel. Ive never used one with a brake booster but that could only help under hard braking.

Anyway, pre-V brakes, I would have to say the original Graftons with Dia Compe SS 183 levers, and just the stock Dia Compe pads they came with were excellent. I made some modifications to the lever bend but these were great brakes but didnt have much pad clearance unfortunately. I actually have a bike currently with Graftons and M900 XTR levers and they feel really good. A littel more pad clearance with the servowave.

I remember those Force 40 brakes. Excellent leverage and braking, just a lot of mush and very little pad clearance.

I have yet to be able to set up a roller cam to feel real powerful. Im sure it can be done, I just cant get the cam to hit in the right spot...


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

*WTB Rollercams*

WTB rollercams with some DiaCompe SS-5's are the best that I have ever used. Incredible power and modulation. Better than any V-brake or canti on the market. I would use them again in a heartbeat if only you could get a suspension fork for one.


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## vulture (Jan 13, 2004)

AKamp said:


> WTB rollercams with some DiaCompe SS-5's are the best that I have ever used. Incredible power and modulation. Better than any V-brake or canti on the market. I would use them again in a heartbeat if only you could get a suspension fork for one.


Hey Aaron, I thought you liked IRD microswitchbacks with four finger XT levers..Ha Ha Ha. Shoot me a line, Ive got some cool news
cheers, Wade My fave's by the way, Mafacs with 105 road levers off the old yakherder


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## gpsser (Jan 5, 2004)

Diacomp 987's w/ SS-5 levers, and avid tri-dangle hangers. good stoppers, got a set on the front of my fixie at the moment, put me OTB 3 weeks ago.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

WTB Rollercam - without a doubt.


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## seely (Jan 20, 2004)

I like the Paul's Motolites with Avid SD Ti levers and Koolstop pads. Very very very nice.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssmike said:


> WTB Rollercam - without a doubt.


Guess I better figure mine out then. Mine are rock hard at the lever. No leverage. If I was to move the cam to the area with more leverage it pushes the pads to the rim.... Am I missing something here. It would seem that Roller Cams would require a specific rim width and boss spacing to get the cam to be utilized on the steeper part... Right now they just feel ok.

Someone needs to post teh WTB manual..


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Guess I better figure mine out then. Mine are rock hard at the lever. No leverage. If I was to move the cam to the area with more leverage it pushes the pads to the rim.... Am I missing something here. It would seem that Roller Cams would require a specific rim width and boss spacing to get the cam to be utilized on the steeper part... Right now they just feel ok.
> 
> Someone needs to post teh WTB manual..


fillet-brazed,
some reasons that come to mind that may explain why your brakes work poorly:
-levers: rollercams don't work with v-brake levers. if you are using them, get some canti levers, best of all, shimano slr plus levers. forgive me if i am pointing out something you already knew, it's just that the solid-lever-coupled-with-no-braking-power syndrome always smacks of v-brake lever usage on brakes not intended for them.
-return springs: the suntour versions that i have seen had really awfully thick return springs, which made it impossible to give the brake a nice, soft feel. some suntour brakes had internal coil return springs at the pivot, some had external wire return springs. if the latter is the case, then you can ditch those return springs and rig something up yourself out of a lower-gauge wire.
-pad position: the key to power on rollercams is pad position. if you set your pads up such that the rubber of the brake pad is up against the eyebolt, that means that the cam is going to start off already very high between the rollers before you even pull on the brake. this means you'll have power in spades when the pads get to the rim, but it also means that you're going to have little rim clearance and mushy brakes.
you, from your description, however, seem to have the opposite problem. maybe your pads are sticking way in, i.e., there is a lot of brake pad post sticking out between the eyebolt and the rubber part of the pad. this has two bad effects: the great length of exposed brake pad post is unable to resist flex and causes squeal in addition to the fact that only the upper, low-leverage portion of the cam engages the rollers. the latter means your pads can sit nice and far from the rim, but when the pads get there, you've got no power. i have set up a few rollercams, and backing the pads out just a wee bit and then moving the came up between the rollers can have a serious effect on lever feel and braking power. try it.
-obviously, the usual advice about clean, well-cut cables, brake pads free of glazing, and a rim with a decent brake track applies here, too. again, forgive me if i am belaboring an already obvious point.
by the way: some people use to get sheet steel and cut their own cams to get customized braking. it wasn't so hard to do because the cams, at least the ones i have seen, don't have any threads anywhere on them, the cable is held down by a bolt and a nut that are not part of the cam itself.
if you have more problems with your rollercam, post again and i will try to help!


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

vulture said:


> Hey Aaron, I thought you liked IRD microswitchbacks with four finger XT levers..Ha Ha Ha. Shoot me a line, Ive got some cool news
> cheers, Wade My fave's by the way, Mafacs with 105 road levers off the old yakherder


Wade,
I have Mafacs on my cross bike with Campy Record carbon levers, they work pretty damn well. I will email you.
Later 
Aaron


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

uphiller said:


> fillet-brazed,
> some reasons that come to mind that may explain why your brakes work poorly:
> -levers: rollercams don't work with v-brake levers. if you are using them, get some canti levers, best of all, shimano slr plus levers. forgive me if i am pointing out something you already knew, it's just that the solid-lever-coupled-with-no-braking-power syndrome always smacks of v-brake lever usage on brakes not intended for them.
> -return springs: the suntour versions that i have seen had really awfully thick return springs, which made it impossible to give the brake a nice, soft feel. some suntour brakes had internal coil return springs at the pivot, some had external wire return springs. if the latter is the case, then you can ditch those return springs and rig something up yourself out of a lower-gauge wire.
> ...


Thanks for the info. First off, I am using canti levers. Very high leverage ones at that. They are WTB brakes that I tried to get to work like people say they can. The pads are all the way in, next to the brake arm with no post extension.... Thats what Im saying, its not possible for me to use the good part of the cam.

Regarding, cables and spring tension. I think these two things are very critical and highly overlooked in setting up brakes to work well. Unfortunately my cable and spring tension are as light as possible....

Maybe I better make my own cam or just take the dremel to this cam.... Its on a WTB fork so the post width shouldnt be weird or anything. Standard width rims too.

Any other ideas??


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

fillet-brazed,
another thing that occurred to me is that there were two different cams for the suntour rollercams. one cam was of a normal width, there was also a wide one that i remember seeing on the rear of an old cannondale 26-24 with wide brake boss spacing. maybe you have this wide cam, and should be using the narrower one?
another possible solution: koolstop made their thinline v-brake pads for awhile with a smooth cantilever post. these pads are thin, as in possibly an entire centimeter thinner than the koolstop eagle claw 2 pads most people use on cantis. you could really get far into the cam's travel with those things.
and what levers are you using exactly? i suggested slr-plus levers, but since they start off with such a high cable pull, they will only make your problem worse. a better solution might be the original avid sd-ultimate levers for cantis, you can really make the brake quite soft with those things.
if you do dremel the cam, make sure you mark out very clearly where you want to stop cutting, and find a way to make it absolutely symmetrical. don't forget to leave a lip on the end of the cam, too, so it is unable to pop out of the rollers when pulled too far.
hope this is of some help.
if all else fails, i will totally buy them off of you, just post here and will take them! i have been looking for a set on and off for a long time.
tim


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Any other ideas??


Completely left field here never having seen WTBs to my knowlege, but my rollercams (Suntour I think but they don't look like the ones posted elsewhere on this board) have two mounting points for the rollers to accomodate wider or narrower rims. Do yours?


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Thanks for the info. First off, I am using canti levers. Very low leverage ones at that. They are WTB brakes that I tried to get to work like people say they can. The pads are all the way in, next to the brake arm with no post extension.... Thats what Im saying, its not possible for me to use the good part of the cam.
> 
> Regarding, cables and spring tension. I think these two things are very critical and highly overlooked in setting up brakes to work well. Unfortunately my cable and spring tension are as light as possible....
> 
> ...


Set your cams so that at rest the cam is already about half way through the main hump in the cam. Then adjust your pads so that you have 3-4 mm of clearence from the rim. You should have a decent feeling brake now. Also the the bronze bushings that slide over the posts that the brakes end up rotating on will usually get fairly gummed up over time. The best thing to do here is take a little emory cloth to them so that the brakes can rotate easily. Denfinitely do not use any V-Brake, servowave or any other types of those levers. The cam profile already is made to pull more cable at first. You will get a very firm lever feel with very little modulation or power. If you still have troubles I would love to trade a IRD aluminum or titanium fork for your WTB fork. I have been looking for one for quite some time. Good luck
Aaron
PS: I even have some old Grafton cantis that I would through in with the trade for your rollercam. Come on Trade, really that is probably your best option. Forget about trying to get the rollercam to work, it probably never will.


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## BurkeVT (Jul 11, 2003)

*The Best*

The best?

Dia Compe 987's with Salmon Kool Stop Pads. I like the Ritchey Logic 2 finger levers.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*It's hard to beat Avid V-brakes*

Since you didn't qualify it as restricted to just "retro" rim brakes I'd say that Avids are very hard to beat when you look at performance, price, feel, durability, ease of adjustability, weight and everything overall, Definitely better with ceramic rims and I've only used the Sun ceramic rims myself but the pair I've had have lasted over 4 years so far.

I also have a set of the mass-produced Taiwanese "Box" brand cold forged V-brakes (not the super-expensive CNC ones) and they work really great but they are a little beefy. My Dia-Compe 987 cantis were the worst MTB canti brakes I ever had. My Control Tech cantis were great retro canti brakes as were Shimano LX and XT cantis. I don't have a lot of experience with boutique brand cantis.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

*Kooka levers with Westpine brakes...*

Kooka Racha brake levers...









Westpine Scissors Front Brake w/Koolstop eagleclaw 2 pads..

















Westpine Triple Alignment Cantilever with Eagleclaw2 pads...


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

Well, for cantilever brakesets, my favorite combination was DiaCompe 987's with Scott Mathauser salmon pads and DiaCompe SS-7 levers. This set is on my wife's parts bin bike right now. They were easy to set up, light, strong and effective.

For vee brakes, my favorite setup is Avid Arch Supremes with WTB combo pads and Avid Ultimate levers (the old kind, haven't tried the new). We have these on our hardtails and they are very easy to dial-in, work great and are light. My wife likes them better than her Avid mech disc brakes she's got on the squishy bike.

For bang-for-the buck rim brakes, I like Avid 7's and 7 levers. Light, strong, easy to dial in.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Why the high straddle cable on the cantis? You could probably lower it a whole inch and get some serious power. Not good for wobbly rims though!


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Why the high straddle cable on the cantis? You could probably lower it a whole inch and get some serious power. Not good for wobbly rims though!


because the cable yoke angle is as close to 90 degrees as I could get it. The cable and yoke act as a lever also you do realize right?

I've already got serious power. Anymore power and I'll get seriously mush.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

"as close to 90 degrees as I could get it."

What stopped you from getting to 90 degrees?


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> "as close to 90 degrees as I could get it."
> 
> What stopped you from getting to 90 degrees?


the pads not yet being in contact with the rim. See... you adjust the things so the angle is 90 on the yoke/straddle cable when the pads reach the rim, not before. Also I don't get my jollies by holding a carpenter's protractor to the thing to verify angles like some closet brake weenies do.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> the pads not yet being in contact with the rim. See... you adjust the things so the angle is 90 on the yoke/straddle cable when the pads reach the rim, not before. Also I don't get my jollies by holding a carpenter's protractor to the thing to verify angles like some closet brake weenies do.


Ya, but its only gonna be farther from 90 degrees when the pads do contact the rim.

Wow, too much brake talk today. The internet is crazy huh. If only we could all be in one big conference room with our overhead projectors and white boards.

Actually, it looks like you and i are the only ones who care about this.... It really doesnt matter anymore on the new bikes. Just bolt on the discs and youre done. No more tuning.

v brakes took away a lot of the tuning potential as well.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Kooka Racha brake levers...


Ahhhh, not Kooka! I had a horrible season as a team mechanic with Kooka as a sponsor. Broken cranks, stems where the binder ripped into the steerer tube, brake levers that were impossible to fit over the bar because they were undersized, chainrins that caused multiple DNF's...on and on....


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Ya, but its only gonna be farther from 90 degrees when the pads do contact the rim.


I'm not trying to get the cable to arm angle to 90, but the yoke to cable angle to 90. The yoke angle is important too ! The arms I could care less about, short of marinovative cheap tricks, few Cantilevers had arms as long as the Westpine TAC's (75mm from cable to pivot center, 25mm from pivot center to pad center).


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## olds_cool (Feb 15, 2004)

I really liked the 96 xtr canti's with dc ss-7 levers, i think. The levers with the rubber ball inside for modulation. those felt like magic. did stop worth a crap compared to the stuff out today, but back then...nice.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

colker1 said:


> and i'm VERY prejudiced against discs...complexity, $$$, weight (ok, if i spend a million buck they are as light as v's) plus i don't ride in muck everyday.


 colker- i too am a rim brake man myself, but more out of nostalgia than anything else. avid mechanical discs: not complex, not expensive, just on the heavy side. well, i guess this was a post on rim brakes, anyways...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

*after installing another v brake pad set..*

i thought i should give the avid discs a shot... at least up front. hmmm... have to build another wheel.


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## SlowSSer (Dec 19, 2003)

rim brakes:

hmm- XTR V's (not the new stuff) paul's love levers, WTB dual compound pads. this was the shiznit for me untill I found discs. now, I havent looked back!

the older rollercams were killer as well- were those cunninghan design? hmm- ive got a pic somewhere....


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## MantisMan (Jan 20, 2004)

*My favorite....*

Critical Racing cantilevers w/Ritchey Logic pads. Great power, great modulation. Oh yeah, and a lower straddle cable than DeeEight!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

MantisMan said:


> Critical Racing cantilevers w/Ritchey Logic pads. Great power, great modulation. Oh yeah, and a lower straddle cable than DeeEight!


You know what else works well is XTR M900 cantis with the shimano hanger, XTR servowave levers. Excellent feel, excellent brakes. So smooooooth. Definitely some of the best cantis....


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## cursivearmy (Jan 26, 2004)

WTB speedmaster Rollercams & Togglecams, with pretty much any brake lever, maybe nonaero dura-ace or aero, and Avid Ultimates, the old 94model

i've never had any problems getting tires in, even when i run a 2.4 on my small phoenix with a togglecam in the rear.

i liked Avid or old XTR cantis for sure.

over and out
nate


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## kz1rider (Feb 2, 2004)

*i'm with Mike T*



Mike T. said:


> The Magura rim brakes were a nice improvement over all the cantilever and v-brakes I'd had.


Right now am using a set of red Magura HS33's. In fact I have another pair of John Tomac Editions...but I see no visible difference in the two, appearance-wise, except for a John Tomac signature on the other...

Had a set of Avid SD-5's and 5's, used the rear in conjunction with a brake booster...that was a good setup too

Also had a set of dia compe 986's and ss7's before, and i tried a scott rollercam type on the rear too...


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## Bicycle Rider (Feb 2, 2004)

*Can you say Brooklyn?...*



uphiller said:


> so, what are your favorite rim brake setups of all time, and why? don`t forget to tell what levers you were using, and pads, and rims.
> me? a major toss-up. arch supremes, shimano carbon boosters, ceramic 217s, shimano ceramic pads, slr plus canti levers. really unbelievable stopping power, and decent rim clearance thanks to the slr plus levers. the boosters and hard pads made an otherwise mushy setup reasonably solid. too bad the ceramic coating turns to glass so quickly.
> paul crosstops, same levers, brushed rhynolites. best modulation i have ever had, just plain amazing for rolling down steep stuff at the edge of lock-up. problem: the brakes seem to require a little bit too much spring tension to open back up again, which leads to tired hands on longer rides.
> repaired at work: cannondale with pepperoni fork, 986 cantis, one of them was done for and had to get replaced with an avid shorty 40. force 40 cam-style 'cable hangers', ritchey hard ano rims. really just plain scary power, it made that pepperoni fork shudder like a 120mm single crown fork with a disc.
> ...


I still run a set of BMW snot rockets with koolstop pads and Avid sd ultimates....(It's kind of a sad thing to think that, at full retail, this is a $400 dollar brake setup...glad I got deals on everything, though...) But man-oh-man......nothing gets stronger than this...the booster that comes with the brooklyn brake is a solid quarter-inch thick, and REALLY does its job. Without it, they made my seatstays twist like rubber bands....

And these are definitely old-school - bwm was making these before anyone heard the term "v-brake"

Anyway, I love the things....only problem is the little rear pully wears out the cable every coupla months.

eric


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## Dr_J (Jan 15, 2004)

*gotta love wtb....*

Their roller cams, toggle cams and speedmaster canti's were all outstanding brakes

The bottom line: 
Favorite brake that I never owned but tried on several occasions: wtb roller cam
Favorite canti setup: WTB speed master front with Grafton SC-2 rear (gotta love the grease ports on the bushings, and man were they pretty) paired with Avid Ultimate levers

Favorite set up period: Avid Arch supremes that have been on my trusty old FAT for 5 years now. Currently paired with 99 vintage sram 9.0 levers. this is the brake that proves the biggest flaw with rim brakes is flex, whether at the post or at the pad. Simply unbeatable for lever feel (except maybe maggura), power and modulation. Strangly, I have found pads last seem to last 3-5 times longer with the arches than any other linear pull brake ive used (probably because power and modulation are so damn good) to bad they were so expensive to manufacture, I'm still looking for another set for the stumpjumper


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## RobynC (Feb 14, 2004)

*gotta love classic WTB*

The WTB rollercams and togglecams are truly wonderful brakes. I remember riding a Cunningham at Point Reyes Bikes around 1990 or so and was just floored by the feel of the rollercam brakes. I ditched the XT U brake on my Klein years ago for a rollercam. I use Suntour levers, WTB brake pads in front and Aztec pads at the rear. My Cunningham has togglecam brakes, expertly dialed in by Mr. C. himself. Originally I was using a drop bar setup with Dia Compe tandem levers. I just stuck with Dia Compe pads rather than anything too exotic. For the last couple of years I've been using a flat bar setup with plain old Avid levers. I may go back to drops again but I sold my WTB dirt drop bars last year. D'oh!

All this classic WTB stuff is now unobtainium.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

man, just one of those side profile pics of your brakes says a thousand words as to why rollercams can work so well. the brakes are just so freaking close to the chainstays- more leverage goes into braking, and less into flexing brake studs ******d.
on a similar note, i have run certain brake setups on different frames/ forks and been shocked at the difference in performance. i ran arch supremes front and rear on my litespeed with xtr levers for a long time. the front brake, mounted without a booster to a halson pds fork, was the most solid, amazing-feeling rim brake i have tried, mainly due to the halson fork's massive 3/4" tubular aluminum brace, which barely flexed even with a magura on it. the rear brake, with a shimano carbon booster, was on the toher hand miserably flexy.
another reason rim brakes are going out- they are so dependent on stiff mounting points and good rims, whereas a disc's stopping power is determined, rolling resistance of the tires aside, almost completely by the brake setup itself.
tim


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## cursivearmy (Jan 26, 2004)

All this classic WTB stuff is now unobtainium.[/QUOTE]

ah..my favorite, WTB goods on Cunningham's! Robyn, i'd be stoked if you posted full pics of your Cunningham, and i think quite a few others would like to see it. Everything about them is so rad, as a Phoenix and Potts rider, the Cunningham has always been the peak for me.

hey, did Charlie redo your rear Togglecam on the Cunningham with those trick looking Linear springs that flatten out up by the top spring post?

over and out
nate


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## RobynC (Feb 14, 2004)

Nate,

>>hey, did Charlie redo your rear Togglecam on the Cunningham with those trick looking >>Linear springs that flatten out up by the top spring post?

Good Eye! I usually try to visit Charlie at least once a year so I can get some tweak or mod that he's thought up. If you look at the shot of the rollercam on the Klein you can just barely make out where he altered the profile of the cam just slightly so it comes into actuation a little more efficiently.

Chris


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## agentorange (Feb 23, 2004)

*Critical Racing w/Mathauser Pads...*

Cantilevers : Critical Racing cantilevers offer an excellent balance of power and class. I have 4 pairs (2 bikes worth) of purple anodized Critical Racing cantilevers and would never part with them.

Pads : Critical's come with Aztec pads as standard and they are terrible, so I've upgraded to the much sought after Scott/Mathauser "Superbrake" pads which are top notch.

Levers : Paul Love Levers are wonderful because they're so light yet robust and powerful, and compliment the design and class of the Critical cantilevers.

An XTR M900 set-up is awesome though (I have that too) and can't fault it for power and durability.

But for it's simplicity, light-weight and value, surely nothing can beat the Dia-Compe SS5 / 986 combination?!


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> Well it was Magura HS33s until I found out how much better disc brakes were over these excellent brakes. The Magura rim brakes were a nice improvement over all the cantilever and v-brakes I'd had.


I with that statement. Long brake levers for 1 finger modulation, tons of pad material, never got "gummed up like cable & housing, BUT they do ice up really bad and the action can't break the ice off of the wheel cylinders, at least in Leadville for the winter series.
I almost skipped "V"-linear pull brakes all together.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

agentorange,
i have one critical racing brake, almost new, in silver. looks pretty cool, but how were you really able to get enough power out of your brakes? they do look stiff and don't wobble on the post, but especially when set up on narrow rims, the angle between straddle cable and calipers is not so hot. anyway, any idea where i could pick up some scott-mathauser super pads with smooth posts?
i always liked the paul levers, they were the first aftermarket levers i ever owned, got them for my 16th birthday. loved the shape of the lever, but i do remember cleaning the pivots on them more than i might have liked, and when braking really hard, you can see the clamp section (at least on the really old levers) flexing to a fair degree under the strain. 
as much as i hate to admit it, the shimano slr plus levers were probably the best levers of the time- durable, relatively flex-free, no skinny, break prone areas that have been too machined down to survive a crash, good pivot, and of course the slr plus mechanism itself, which doesn't seem to wear out even after ten years' use on some bikes, and which gives great rim clearance, and more power, to boot. they turn good brakes into great ones, and great ones into truly outstanding ones. 
geez, when am i going to let this thread die? probably on the same day i throw out my old set of paul love levers... never!
tim


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## U V (Feb 29, 2004)

i remember Dia-Compe [or maybe SunTour] made some canti's called 'Energizer' , they used a screw system in the barrels so after you pressed the lever they helped in the braking power


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*You're gonna laugh at me, but...*

The SS I built up wit beater parts have the best rim brakes I have used.

Don't laugh, but:

LX cantilever brakes
Kool Stop grey compound pads on non-threaded studs
Dia Compe levers
Nashbar cruddy rims on LX hubs
Diamond back cruddy steel super rigid fork
no brake booster, but I'm considering installing one form my old parts bin it to reduce frame flex in the rear

This bike is unbelievable in the brake department. It stops like crazy without much pressure on the levers wtih dynamite modulation. I really like how you can tweak the modulation by changing the hangar height, but Cantis are a total PITA to set up.

My only complaint is the front brake howling under hard braking.

When I was on rim Vee brakes on my other bike, I had SRAM 7.0 arms with Avid SD7 levers, Aztec cartridge pads and tried both Ritchey extreme condition inserts, and Ritchey regular compound inserts with my Bonti Mustang rims. I never could get great braking out of this rig, no matter how many SOS pad cleaning, sandpaper and toe angle tweaking I did. I bought some Performance Forte brake arms ($10 on sale) and put them up front, and they were better but still not great. At that point, I gave up on rim brakes and got Avid Discs, and now have true one finger panic stopping power for my 200# arse. The cantis on my SS are a very close second.


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

*Magura's rock!*



uphiller said:


> so, what are your favorite rim brake setups of all time, and why? don`t forget to tell what levers you were using, and pads, and rims.
> me? a major toss-up. arch supremes, shimano carbon boosters, ceramic 217s, shimano ceramic pads, slr plus canti levers. really unbelievable stopping power, and decent rim clearance thanks to the slr plus levers. the boosters and hard pads made an otherwise mushy setup reasonably solid. too bad the ceramic coating turns to glass so quickly.
> paul crosstops, same levers, brushed rhynolites. best modulation i have ever had, just plain amazing for rolling down steep stuff at the edge of lock-up. problem: the brakes seem to require a little bit too much spring tension to open back up again, which leads to tired hands on longer rides.
> repaired at work: cannondale with pepperoni fork, 986 cantis, one of them was done for and had to get replaced with an avid shorty 40. force 40 cam-style 'cable hangers', ritchey hard ano rims. really just plain scary power, it made that pepperoni fork shudder like a 120mm single crown fork with a disc.
> ...


I've run just about everything. I've also raced downhill at places like Mt St Anne, Ca and Mt Snow and to me the Magura rim brakes have no equal. I still think they rival good disc brakes. Yeah a great discs might have a tad bit more power (minimal) but the butter smooth and progressive feel of Magura rim's is hard to beat. They are so easy to setup and maintain as well.

If you haven't ridden a set of Magura's you should pick up an old set on ebay and try them for a few months. They are truly amazing and now days they can be bought so cheap along with some killer non-disc wheels, that it's hard to justify discs over them when you look at the costs. Magura's rock. Again I own a set of Shimano Discs, Hope Discs, Sachs Disc, etc, but these old rim brakes are the bees knees. I've got five or six bikes set up with these and they never fail me. Magura has always had great Norba race support for privateers as well which is really nice.

One last point - Tomac and HB use to ride them! Magura made Fluro-yellow cool! 
How many MTB companies can successfully define a wild color as cool? You can't go wrong with Maguras!

-mtnwing


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## paramountz (Mar 11, 2004)

*Avid Arch Supreme*

My all time fave is 
Avid Arch Supremes
Avid Ultimate Levers 
Kool Stop Salmons


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

teambender said:


> Onza HO cantilevers and Scott-Pedersen SE Brake. The Scott was the most powerful canti -- in terms of lock-up-throw-you-over-the-bars-on-your-melon -- brakes I have ever used.


What he said. My ex has them on her cannondale which is a 16 inch custom 3.0 build that you guys would love.... The SEs on the front of that thing are just.

I use real levers and avid tri aligns
They are good enough for me although getting srping tensions right can be tough.


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

WTB Rollercams with Scott Mattheuser pads, Magura motorcycle levers on the flat bar/Modolo levers on the drops.
Mavic M-231 rims.

Never could convince the wife I needed a Cunningham but I've been happily riding my Potts for the past 12 years.


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