# Why does tall = Goofy looking bike?



## dvdslw45 (Mar 20, 2019)

Is it just me or are ALL modern mountain bikes in XL-XXL sizes goofy looking??? I want to buy something but everything I've test ridden has given me the feeling of being waaay up on top of the bike. Reach has been good on any thing in the 480-500 range (XL) but saddle height is way above the bars which just doesn's seem or feel right. The picture shows a friends bike he just purchased today, a 2022 Stumpjumper comp carbon in the S5 (XL) size. Looks like his saddle is waay up there and he's only 6'2 (I'm 6'5).


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Your saddle will be high no matter what. It is a function of the length of your legs. The differences is the length of the seat tube, and moreso the distance from the bottom bracket to the top tube along the seat tube. Dropper posts and lower top tubes allow for more freedom of movement on the bike (or the bike under you). A higher top tube might look "less goofy" to some, but reduces that movement.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm about your friends height, this is a large. Doesn't look weird to me, actually I've since lowered the bars another 10mm and put a 15mm longer stem on it.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

Well I've lived with this condition (6'4") my whole adult life, so my bikes look normal to me. But over the years customers usually make a comment when they see my bike, that it looks uncomfortable and they don't care about 'aerodynamics' like I do. Bro, that's just how I have to ride. Wish I could get ahold of one of these 36" wheel bikes.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

here's some perspective for you, - it used to be far worse! (me from about '90 on a 22" Cannondale SM700, I was still a solid 6'3" at that time). It looks like a tiny clown bike!


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## Swolie74 (11 mo ago)

Because nothing is actually designed for us… they take all the stuff that works great for tiny humans and Jerry rig it to kiiiiinda work for us….. chainstays should be much longer, front triangles should be bigger… but then you run into weight issues and blah… stupid giant body. Every time one of my friends tells me “I wish I had your height” I wanna slap them…. /rant


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## dvdslw45 (Mar 20, 2019)

Swolie74 said:


> Because nothing is actually designed for us… they take all the stuff that works great for tiny humans and Jerry rig it to kiiiiinda work for us….. chainstays should be much longer, front triangles should be bigger… but then you run into weight issues and blah… stupid giant body. Every time one of my friends tells me “I wish I had your height” I wanna slap them…. /rant


I agree 100% and even when they make an XXL bike it seems standover height is pretty much the same across all sizes which baffles my mind. The S6 (XXL) 2022 Stumpjumper for example has the same satndover height at the S5 but the reach is is 35mm longer (535mm) and the headtube is 10mm taller other than that everything else is the same.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

dvdslw45 said:


> Is it just me or are ALL modern mountain bikes in XL-XXL sizes goofy looking??? I want to buy something but everything I've test ridden has given me the feeling of being waaay up on top of the bike. Reach has been good on any thing in the 480-500 range (XL) but saddle height is way above the bars which just doesn's seem or feel right. The picture shows a friends bike he just purchased today, a 2022 Stumpjumper comp carbon in the S5 (XL) size. Looks like his saddle is waay up there and he's only 6'2 (I'm 6'5).
> View attachment 1984294


Well, IMO it was the large bikes of the late 90s an early 00s with their massively high top tubes and 8" head tubes that were goofy, now the size large bikes actually have clearance...but to each his own...


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Personally I think bikes for extra tiny people look way more goofy.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Personally I think bikes for extra tiny people look way more goofy.
> View attachment 1984320


My wife claims to be 5', but can stand up in a Kombi... So, I see them regularly, I agree.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

^ agreed. Smaller people on the big bikes looks more goofy to me. See the women’s xco? The bikes look huge for them compared to the men. I mean it works, they kick ass, but looks odd to me.


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## Crockpot2001 (Nov 2, 2004)

Part of the issue is that seat tubes have become significantly more vertical. As the seat has moved forward we have to raise it to get proper leg extension. Also, taller people tend to have longer feet which can add to total leg length if you pedal toe-down. The other issue is the reluctance to increase stack height. Specialized and Santa cruz are two that come to mind who have started improving this but 5 years ago they assumed everyone was fine with a time trial position and bars 8" below the saddle.


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

jimPacNW said:


> here's some perspective for you, - it used to be far worse! (me from about '90 on a 22" Cannondale SM700, I was still a solid 6'3" at that time). It looks like a tiny clown bike!
> View attachment 1984302


this is me too. I rode an old canondale f400 at 6’6” and looked like I was riding a kids bike.


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## Mac_89 (Mar 24, 2021)

Every modern enduro/“aggressive” trail bike I’ve tried didn’t have enough stack height for me and I’m only 6”. I can make it up with riser bars, but still. That’s an XL with 210mm dropper post, 30mm of spacers and a 50mm riser bar. Overforked by 10mm as well. Seems really excessive on paper but it feels right. Saddle and grips are pretty much exactly the same height.

I've tried far worse, and the new version of this frame has more stack so it sounds like they're listening. I don't think it helps that they have Cathro on their books though, who despite being 6-foot-a-million would fit his stem on top of his crown race if he could!


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## mtmc99 (11 mo ago)

As others have said, stack height doesn't seem to scale as proportionately as you go up in sizes so the bike gets longer but not that much taller which lead to our seats being way above the bars.

I think the other big factor is brands like to keep low top tubes and short seat tubes (except German brands they love tall seat tubes) so short riders can pick any pick the reach they want and be able to fit which leaves us true XL riders with a massive amount of seat post showing.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

would be nice to see some taller stack frames for us big guys. shoulder width affects ape index. not everyone has super long arms, so some variability would be nice.

the raw madonna v2.2 is high enough stack, but i dont want a super slack bike for trails. something 65.5 degree to 66.5 with 500 reach, 700 stack 455-465 chain stay would be right up my alley.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Last season I visited the demo tent @ one of our local trails. They had an XL w/ geometry spec's that were descent. I told the demo guy I won't be able to get the best feel from the bike because of the bar /stem combo - flat bars, 40deg 0 stem & roughly 20mm of spacers. He asked what I I ran on my bike? I wheeled it over and he gasped - 80mm riser bars & 25* rise 50mm stem. I didn't feel like having my cockpit scrutinized so I passed on the demo. As a taller rider I don't have any trouble weighting the front wheel or pulling up w/ a tall front end. my XL has a 120mm HT which imo. should be @ least a couple inches taller.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Compared to the old 26" bikes, that just grew in height (with the best examples being shown aready, the incredibly tall Cannondale frames), new bikes only seem to grow in length.
Hopefully, maybe, the next iteration will make them grow the bike in all proportions accordingly. Some manufacturers are doing this already (Last bikes comes to my mind).

I just got hold of two new Yeti XL frames and I think the longer frame fits the larger wheels of today perfectly. Great looking bikes.
Small frames and 29" look at least as goofy, if not worse, than our old 26" looked with everything way up in the air


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Imo it's because most modern bikes are not big. They get taller, but proportions are wrong. 
If you scale wheel base with size, the proportions stay good. 

I was tempted to add the photo after this where I look good, but this one shows the bike better. 

I'm loading the bike for a high g turn, somehow I've managed to almost bottom out the 190mm rear travel and almost ripping the tyre off the rim!


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## Rafu (Oct 25, 2013)

mtmc99 said:


> I think the other big factor is brands like to keep low top tubes and short seat tubes (except German brands they love tall seat tubes) so short riders can pick any pick the reach they want and be able to fit which leaves us true XL riders with a massive amount of seat post showing.


Agree! I am 196cm (6'5") with 96cm (almost 38") inseam and this is my ride:









It has 520mm of the seat tube and I still could fit the OneUp 210 or even 240mm dropper. I had to replace the original 12mm "mini-rise" handlebar with a 40mm rise Renthal Fatbar to minimize the saddle-to-bars drop. It is still about ~10cm, but luckily I have super long arms. A few months after I got my Scott, we bought a brand new Stumpjumper for my wife (S4). I was regretting, that I could wait some time and get a proper-size bike for me, because I feel, that my Genius is on the small side. However, the seat tube is 460mm in S6 and that gives like 350mm of seatpost exposure. Some brands also design their frames with massive seat masts to keep the top tube low. Nobody thinks about tall folks... I bet my next bike will be German, lol


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Raww needs to make a tall geo specific trail bike for big guys and they will dominate.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

My XXL ride with longer 160mm (140mm stock) forks. I also have a slight riser stem and riser bars. Feels good at 6'7.


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## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

I stand 6'9" 265lbs and bought a custom Kent Eriksen Gravel from a forum member to get back into riding. Now I am working with Ventana on a Custom build based on an older Ventana El Capitan build the X5. I went his route for the same reason this thread was started. I sent somepics to Treasa to confirm they would build an older model. Updating a few things to bring it up to date.

But in 110% agreement that xl-xxl frames look odd. But then again being in only 2% of the populatin that has reached their full potential you get use to it as the other 98% tried to figure things out


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

theDogger2 said:


> I stand 6'9" 270lbs and bought a custom Kent Eriksen Gravel from a forum member to get back into riding. Now I am working with Ventana on a Custom build based on an older Ventana El Capitan build the X5. I went his route for the same reason this thread was started. I sent somepics to Treasa to confirm they would build an older model. Updating a few things to bring it up to date.
> 
> But in 110% agreement that xl-xxl frames look odd. But then again being in olnly 2% of the populatin that has reached their full potential you get use to it as the other 98% tried to figure things out
> 
> View attachment 1985315


Need a longer wheel base and chainstay. 65 degree HTA too. Stretch that thing out.... It may be tight on some switchbacks, but not much.


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## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

Tall BMX'r said:


> Need a longer wheel base and chainstay. 65 degree HTA too. Stretch that thing out.... It may be tight on some switchbacks, but not much.


Way ahead of ya, the chian stay is the first thing we talked about. Ill post a final build sheet with specs


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## chafingdish (Aug 2, 2017)

6’3” 220 here. I’m usually in between an XL and XXL for brands that have both. More often than not its the low stack height that screws it up for me, too. Riding a current generation Stumpjumper in S5, and have my stem all the way at the top of the steer tube, and could use another 10mm still. And specialized was kind enough to leave a significant amount of steer tube, previous bikes have come with much less. One thing Ive considered is any time I buy a new bike in the future, to just plan on buying a separate fork and selling the stock one as a new take off (anyone else do this?). I figure I could then buy a lower spec build and put a nicer fork on it (ie, slx/performance build, then put a factory or PE level fork on).


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## fsr29erATX (Jan 10, 2009)

dvdslw45 said:


> Is it just me or are ALL modern mountain bikes in XL-XXL sizes goofy looking??? I want to buy something but everything I've test ridden has given me the feeling of being waaay up on top of the bike. Reach has been good on any thing in the 480-500 range (XL) but saddle height is way above the bars which just doesn's seem or feel right. The picture shows a friends bike he just purchased today, a 2022 Stumpjumper comp carbon in the S5 (XL) size. Looks like his saddle is waay up there and he's only 6'2 (I'm 6'5).
> View attachment 1984294


Stack and headtube length are the main problems for tall ppl. They make bikes long enough now, but they build the stack and ht length at a levels that most folks 6'4" or more will have a seat to bar drop of 5-10 inches from the shop. That's Ludacris.. manufacturers should really make an exception with tall ppl and not cut the steerer on these big frames, it takes all of 10 minutes to cut, but will save the buyer loads of money on funky stems and riser bars to make it work.. 

I'm 6'4" 225 on an s6 stumpy. It's the best fitting bike I've ever had.. but it wasn't good from the shop, still not enough stack.. I put on a 160mm fork which raised it up about an inch and to probably a 64.5 ht vs stock of 65, no issue, handles the same or better, it already had a 140mm ht length, and then I left the steerer a bit longer to boot too, and the reach is just right for me but any longer would be too much.. I'm running a 35mm length deity stem which is the first time I've been able to run a shorter stem, so with all that combo, the front is finally high enough without looking goofy, I'm riding down things I would previously walk and with less fear/feeling of Endo that us tall folks typically get, but still feeling in the pocket on carving.. and with the crazy long chainstays I'm not rubbing my heal on the frame like I always do, and it's got room for some large tires.. it's the alloy heavy heavy model but I'm climbing better than ever in spite of that.. previously I had a yt Jeffsy xxl, beautiful bike but the steerer was crazy short from factory and headtube super short, stack short, I couldn't get it to work.. sold it, very painful to do.. but ultimately the stumpy feels perfect to me.. so it was the right decision 

On the specialized s5 sizing, I think I could have made that work too but the stock seatpost at it's max extension was a full 1 inch too short.. the s6 although not much longer seat tube comes with a longer post and one of the thickest diameter ones, so it's actually ok.. 

Note the Evo s6 frame has a shorter head tube (135) vs non-evo.. So I prefer the 140 of the regular... And with my 160 fork, I get slightly less pedal strikes, it's still low tho and I do get some strikes... Still running low mode on the flip chips


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

Part of it also is wheel sizing remains the same regardless of height. 
It's why road bikes look best around 54-56cm, and look goofy as hell the further the frame size gets away from that.
It's why 29 wheels look so good for a size Large bike, and 27.5 ones look so good for a size Small.

I'm 6'-2", and I've found the solution is some spacers under the stem, combined with tall riser bars. For me, 20-25mm of spacers and 35-40mm gets the bars high enough. 
They look 'moto', and proportional to the rest of the bike, and get the bars just under saddle height, which is all I need with my knuckle-dragging long arms.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

In the past (early 90's lets say) when top tubes were level, bike frame sizes were bottom bracket to top tube. 16, 18, 20, 22, etc. By the mid 90s philosophies on design and sizing were changing.

Today, sizes generally mean LENGTH (reach) and every other dimension is kept as low as possible. This mostly works, but as you get to the extremes you get some wonky setups with high seat masts and lots of headset spacers and very high rise bars. You have basically replaced one problem with another. Wheel size really needs to be incorporated into frame sizing. Some companies do it a bit, but it should broaden. xs 26, m 27.5, l 29, xxl a new 30.5?


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

29 / 30.5 mullet with a 460mm chainstay.


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## BigStatiK (Jul 26, 2020)

Small = goofy
XL = goofy

size large master race!


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

BigStatiK said:


> Small = goofy
> XL = goofy
> 
> size large master race!


With lots of scares on top of my head to prove it 🤣 "And no.. I don't play basketball.."


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

I think larger wheel size is the only way to get a normal looking frame for is tall (6-7" me) folks. I do get that there is a balance with wheel size. Go to big and other problems arise.


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

6’1” with a very long relative inseam…all of these are XL frames and look ridiculous, but are set up appropriately for efficient pedaling. I’ve come to terms with it 😆


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

That seems like _a lot_ of inseam for someone 6'1"? If that Yeti is an XL SB130, I can compare it to my own SB130 XL frame with a 36" inseam (at 6'4"). My seat is definitely lower...



smashysmashy said:


> Wheel size really needs to be incorporated into frame sizing. Some companies do it a bit, but it should broaden. xs 26, m 27.5, l 29, xxl a new 30.5?


I really like this idea. We're doing it with kids' bikes already, why not extend it? Wheel size, bar width, crank length could all change in size according to whom the bike is for.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I know some of it is simply due to experience, but once I found a bike long enough and with generous stack, I cursed all the years I spent riding too small of a bike. Having the room to stand and climb as well as descending with a lot of bike out in front of me has been a game changer. 

In the past I always felt as if I was up over the front tire too often, which sucked for out of the saddle climbing and really limited my confidence on steep tech descents.


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## bigthom (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm 6'8" and 245lbs. 

My bikes are exactly the size and shape they need to be and are pretty to the right eyes. 

Once you get it right and have a bike that actually fits, you really don't care what it looks like to others, because it feels so right to you. I think a lot about the fact that if I had any interest in a traditional tall person sport (basket rowing or volleyfoot ball), things would be so much easier. But, who cares about easy? If I wanted easy I'd have an ebike or would make fun of Luke Bryan.


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