# Hanger Alignment Tool



## bikenut316 (Oct 10, 2005)

I purchase a Park hanger alignment tool.
https://www.parktool.com/product/derailleur-hanger-alignment-gauge-dag-2-2?category=Frame & Fork

And the the Wolftooth tool came out. Considering returning the Park for the Woolftooth. https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/tools/products/pack-hanger-alignment-tool


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I have the Park one and while works well, it's also a huge pain in the ass on MY bikes since all I have is plus and fat. It probably was designed for skinny tire bikes where the tire doesn't balloon out past the rim. 

I am also going to buy the wolftooth tool.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

I don't see how the tire has anything to do with it...you use the rim as a point of reference.

If you are concerned with saving weight/space above all else, then yes, the Wolftooth tool will probably be fine. If you are looking for speed, the classic design is better, hence why it is used in shops.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

NYrr496 said:


> I have the Park one and while works well, it's also a huge pain in the ass on MY bikes since all I have is plus and fat. It probably was designed for skinny tire bikes where the tire doesn't balloon out past the rim.
> 
> I am also going to buy the wolftooth tool.


Do you have the first version or the 2nd version?


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## 749800 (Jul 14, 2013)

That looks interesting.

I have the Abbey HAG tool, which is very nicely made, compact, and brutally expensive.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I have the second version. 

I totally get that it works on the rim.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

I like the wolftooth one for its portability, but I do not own it. I can't really fathom a situation where I personally would be in that I would need it. But if/when I can do those rides, I would like this in my kit


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

NYrr496 said:


> I have the Park one and while works well, it's also a huge pain in the ass on MY bikes since all I have is plus and fat. It probably was designed for skinny tire bikes where the tire doesn't balloon out past the rim..


It works the same on all wheels with tires installed. The indicator runs into the tire when you swing the arm since it pivots on the RD mounting point which is not concentric with the wheel axle. The Park tool comes with o-rings on the indicator to set the position so you can pull it out, rotate the arm, reposition the indicator radially and push the indicator in to the same position. I find zip ties work better than the o-rings.


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## bikenut316 (Oct 10, 2005)

NYrr496 said:


> I have the Park one and while works well, it's also a huge pain in the ass on MY bikes since all I have is plus and fat. It probably was designed for skinny tire bikes where the tire doesn't balloon out past the rim.
> 
> I am also going to buy the wolftooth tool.


That's why I'm interested in it.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

My vote is for the Abby HAG. Simple, quick and easy to use. I have owned one for years and well worth it.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I just watched a video of the Abbey tool being used. All of the issues with the Park tool are solved with the Abbey tool.


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## infinityzak (Jan 18, 2007)

The only reason why you'd choose the Wolftooth one is to throw it in your pack. You'll get more leverage and finer adjustment for the larger tool eg, Park or Abbey.

That said I made my own version of the Wolftooth, using an old quick release axle (not skewer but the threaded axle that the skewer runs through) which threads nicely into the derailleur hanger. And use the the thru axle out of my wheel as reference.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm sold on the Abbey. I'm gettin' one. And a pedal wrench.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I like the simplicity of just pulling the derailleur off and attaching the HAG. The design, quality and function are second to none. A pleasure to hold.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

Thanks for the love!

Couple of thoughts about hanger alignment and the tools to do it. 

Precision is king, with modern drivetrains the hangers need to be pretty damn straight, less than 2mm honestly. You're simply not going to do that with a tool that has a bunch of play or something that requires you to eyeball it. Honestly, if you're not going to get a precise tool you are better of just using an adjustable wrench and getting it good enough. 

The rotating head is nice but certainty not mandatory. It really comes in handy when you're working on bikes with racks and/or fenders where there's lots of stuff in the way.

A locking indicator is pretty nice as it keeps you from second guessing your measurement. Don't try to move the indicator out and back in to what you think is the same spot. It's not going to be the same and your results will suffer. 

The rear derailleur thread is one of 3 things that are truly standardized on the bicycle (bottle boss spacing and chain pitch being the other two). Introducing other variables into this process could lead to tools that are more likely to become obsolete or need additional parts to maintain compatibility. Something to think about in this ever evolving world of wheel sizes, axle spacing and axle threading.

Finally, an extremely strong majority of factory techs for drivetrain manufactures use our HAG. This includes Shimano who make their own tool! If that doesn't convince you what's more trusted I don't know what else will.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

From what I can see, the Park and Abbey work in the same way and do exactly the same thing? If you work in a shop, fair enough, but for the most part I don't really see how big a difference it's going to make whichever tool you have. I have the Park one, it gets the job done fine.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Personal preference always plays a role in just about everything we put into our hands and use as a tool.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

Mr Pig said:


> From what I can see, the Park and Abbey work in the same way and do exactly the same thing? If you work in a shop, fair enough, but for the most part I don't really see how big a difference it's going to make whichever tool you have. I have the Park one, it gets the job done fine.


Some people ride X5 and think it's awesome, other people ride XX1. In pictures they pretty much look exactly the same.

Pictures don't do it justice, use the two tools back to back and you will quickly see the difference. Weather that difference is worth good money is up to you.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

The HAG is much more nicely made and more convenient to use than the Park tool device. Both yield equivalent results, IMO.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

SHoeWeee HAG @ 185 yikes... it beautiful green and everything! 
I have a home made one made out of square stock, it works but have been thinking of getting something "less clumsy"... I love precision tools but man...


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Here is what I made:





It works... just kinda clumsy


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## SwedishShredder (Jul 30, 2019)

How often do you find that you need to align the hanger? I have looked into these tools from time to time, always convincing myself that it's easier to replace the hanger or that it indeed is straight enough until it isnt. The hanger on modern Santa Cruz bikes also seem very sturdy indeed. However, I feel that Eagle groups might have increased the need for it even further.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Facts be known, I have received new hangers that were not dialed in. I rarely replace a hanger, but you will be surprised at how easily one can become tweaked with a relatively minor contact with a fixed object or crash.


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## SwedishShredder (Jul 30, 2019)

Cleared2land said:


> Facts be known, I have received new hangers that were not dialed in. I rarely replace a hanger, but you will be surprised at how easily one can become tweaked with a relatively minor contact with a fixed object or crash.


Interesting! I also suppose that no frame and mount is 100% straight, and thus the hanger needs to be corrected slightly for this. I think I will buy the park-tools version, it seems like it is at least good enough for a home mechanic and will work decently with the newer version of frames.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

SwedishShredder said:


> How often do you find that you need to align the hanger? I have looked into these tools from time to time, always convincing myself that it's easier to replace the hanger or that it indeed is straight enough until it isnt. The hanger on modern Santa Cruz bikes also seem very sturdy indeed. However, I feel that Eagle groups might have increased the need for it even further.


I've had to straighten the hanger on my 2018 Hightower three times now since October. It really doesn't take much to knock the SRAM 12 speed derailleur out of alignment. If you don't have to SRAM tool to properly set the B-tension screw on the Eagle 12 speed stuff, that makes a surprisingly noticeable difference too.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

SwedishShredder said:


> How often do you find that you need to align the hanger?


The key word there is need. I've found bent hangers on new bikes. Most of the bikes I've checked have been at least slightly out. The real question is how much does it matter. A hanger can be slightly bent and not effect shifting at all. Or it can be bent a different way and cause a problem. If you check the hanger at least you _know_ it's not causing a problem.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

^^^yeah. I know it's heresy, but in my experience, hanger alignment is not all that critical. Adjust the limits and cable tension appropriately and it will almost always shift fine. Of course as Mr Pig points out, if you're having shifting issues, check the hanger to eliminate it as a possibility.


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## parktool (Jun 27, 2017)

As stated above, even a brand new hanger out of the bag will need to be aligned. This is something that many just do not get. Often we get the comment of "might as well just get a new one instead of spend money on the tool" That could be the case if the new one was going to go on straight. It wont. Between the manufacturing of the frame and the manufacturing of the hanger there is some alignment issues. Spread the word. 

(Same soap box might apply to facing disc brake mounts. Face the adaptor instead of the actual frame mounts when facing brake mounts.)

The DAG works great. It has a job and it does it well and has been for decades. Many shops still use theirs from decades ago. Many have imitated it.


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## SwedishShredder (Jul 30, 2019)

Lone Rager said:


> ^^^yeah. I know it's heresy, but in my experience, hanger alignment is not all that critical. Adjust the limits and cable tension appropriately and it will almost always shift fine. Of course as Mr Pig points out, if you're having shifting issues, check the hanger to eliminate it as a possibility.


That's kind of my point. I have always gotten good results by just adjusting the cable tension and stops. Or so I think. A review in Road.cc (https://road.cc/content/review/169571-park-tool-dag-222) of the DAG tool stated that:

"Always using slick, stainless cables and new outers every 1000km or so, perfectly lubricated derailleur pivots, indexed as per Shimano's instructions. What I didn't know was how inherently out my hanger alignment was, and what that meant for shifting. I was used to a certain level of shifting accuracy, speed and chain noise, thinking things couldn't get any better without jumping up a groupset or two.

Using the DAG-2 was a revelation. Immediately the shifting was noticeably faster in both directions, and the chain ran quieter. It was one of those 'I can't believe I waited so long' moments.".

So this seems like a really good thing to have in the toolbox. The question is then, should one go for the Lifeline/X-Tools generic thing from Wiggle or the Park Tools DAG?


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## parktool (Jun 27, 2017)

I'll say that for the money you are getting a USA made product. My neighbor 25 miles away from PT head quarters works for the company that does the plating and my other neighbor works just south of there doing some of the metal work on the DAG. Another reason to purchase from a reputable brand would be product support. Thanks for considering a DAG, and im sure you will find that having a derailleur hanger alignment tool very helpful. Cheers!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

SwedishShredder said:


> The question is then, should one go for the Lifeline/X-Tools generic thing from Wiggle or the Park Tools DAG?


I'd buy the cheapest as they all do the same thing. It's not a complex tool and not one that gets used every day. You don't need amazing build quality.

Not that Park is amazing build quality anyway. It's nothing special and really pretty rough at times. Certainly no better than cheaper brands like X-tools etc. Park Tools are overrated. If you want to buy American fair enough, I respect that.


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

I picked up a Shimano Dura-Ace derailleur alignment tool from a bike shop that closed down. Great tool.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

I made on similar to the one on the youtube video. Well I haven't watched the video just going by what I see in the preview picture. Except I only used one nut. Having a 2nd nut to lock the tension down would have made it even better. But my bolt wasn't long enough.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

SwedishShredder said:


> How often do you find that you need to align the hanger? I have looked into these tools from time to time, always convincing myself that it's easier to replace the hanger or that it indeed is straight enough until it isnt. The hanger on modern Santa Cruz bikes also seem very sturdy indeed. However, I feel that Eagle groups might have increased the need for it even further.


On bikes ridden by adults? Rarely. On bikes ridden by kids? A few times a year.


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## SwedishShredder (Jul 30, 2019)

Mr Pig said:


> I'd buy the cheapest as they all do the same thing. It's not a complex tool and not one that gets used every day. You don't need amazing build quality.
> 
> Not that Park is amazing build quality anyway. It's nothing special and really pretty rough at times. Certainly no better than cheaper brands like X-tools etc. Park Tools are overrated. If you want to buy American fair enough, I respect that.


Thanks, I am on the same page really. The play in the lifeline version according to the reviews put me off slightly, but most people say it doesn't affect the final result too much if you give it some thought and use a consistent process. Also, to some extent they say that it's possible to almost completely eliminate by adjusting the tool. I have been very happy with most of my Park Tools products, but a 100% markup over the lifeline version on something that will most likely be used pretty seldom seems like that money could be better spent elsewhere.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I do enough custom bike builds and repairs in a year that owning the HAG is definitely worthwhile. 
I've seen quite a number of brand new bikes with wonky dropouts and hangers that I check every one.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

You guys see this? X-Tools hanger alignment tool for $36.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/x-tools-pro-gear-hanger-alignment-tool/rp-prod122319

I have always just used a wrench and my eyeballs but this was too cheap to pass up.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

Lone Rager said:


> ^^^yeah. I know it's heresy, but in my experience, hanger alignment is not all that critical. Adjust the limits and cable tension appropriately and it will almost always shift fine. Of course as Mr Pig points out, if you're having shifting issues, check the hanger to eliminate it as a possibility.


Hanger alignment is the foundation of the drive train. If it's off, nothing else matters.


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## SwedishShredder (Jul 30, 2019)

kpdemello said:


> You guys see this? X-Tools hanger alignment tool for $36.
> 
> https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/x-tools-pro-gear-hanger-alignment-tool/rp-prod122319
> 
> I have always just used a wrench and my eyeballs but this was too cheap to pass up.


Jup, that's one of the tools that we discussed earlier. Some even prefer it to the park tools version.

My friend actually had one of these and I tried it. Sure, some play that might or might not be possible to eliminate but clearly good enough for home-use so I ordered one of them for myself. Thanks for all the tips!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

kpdemello said:


> You guys see this? X-Tools hanger alignment tool for $36.


In design and function, that's more or less identical to the Park one. I'll bet it's better finished too as the Park one is a bit rough.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Lone Rager said:


> ^^^yeah. I know it's heresy, but in my experience, hanger alignment is not all that critical. Adjust the limits and cable tension appropriately and it will almost always shift fine. Of course as Mr Pig points out, if you're having shifting issues, check the hanger to eliminate it as a possibility.





customfab said:


> Hanger alignment is the foundation of the drive train. If it's off, nothing else matters.


Kinda funny that I said heresy and your avatar is a religious figure.

Not saying it shouldn't be straight, just that it'll shift fine if moderately bent with the limits and tension adjusted to compensate.

We'll agree to disagree.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^ Interesting...
I have always associated Friar Quade somewhat like a Trappist Monk and choose to see more parallels to the art of making hand crafted brew over a religious figure.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Lone Rager said:


> Not saying it shouldn't be straight, just that it'll shift fine if moderately bent with the limits and tension adjusted to compensate.


I've seen really out of whack derailleurs that shifted perfectly. Having said that, the bigger the number of gears, the more critical it gets. Man, eight-speed was so easy :0(


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

With 12 speed alignment is more critical imo. 

Question; why not make an alignment tool that squares up the hanger with the cassette specifically?
I see the WT uses the the axle but eyeballing it with their design doesn't seem that precise.

I've not been a witness to this pandemic of bent/misaligned hangers from new. Most all the ones I've ever checked are within the 4mm of Park's spec. Being a perfectionist I try to make them dead on but will say the difference in shifting from 4mm to perfect is infinitesimal. One other factor beyond shifting performance is pulley wear and drag... straight is good here.

I'd say the park tool would benefit from a touch less slop bit it's a good tool. I've handled one of the cheaper copy cat tools and it definitely has more play.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

WHALENARD said:


> why not make an alignment tool that squares up the hanger with the cassette specifically?


They align to the rim, which should be in line with the cassette and is a much bigger target. The cassette is tiny and making a tool that aligns to it accurately would not be at all easy.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Mr Pig said:


> They align to the rim, which should be in line with the cassette and is a much bigger target. The cassette is tiny and making a tool that aligns to it accurately would not be at all easy.


I get that but....
I can think of some hypotheticals where the rim and cassette may not be in line. Especially with parks method where you are only checking one part of the rim. I'm not an engineer but also seems the further you move from the cassette the larger any discrepancy becomes?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

WHALENARD said:


> I can think of some hypotheticals where the rim and cassette may not be in line.


Well, if that's the case you've got far bigger problems than hanger alignment! The Park, and other tools don't check one part of the rim. They take samples all around the rim. It's a perfectly good way to do it and works fine.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Haven't checked in a while but thought Parks instructions where to use the valve stem as a guide and check at 4 points N/S/W/E. If you a had a rim out of true and used different points of the rim that would prove problematic.

I had a bike with replaceable dropouts of which one also served as the hanger. After a bad sideways landing the dropout and thus the hanger were bent albeit on different planes. I smacked it back into place to an acceptable level but the wheel was not straight in the dropout which made aligning the hanger tricky. Given the comments on bent hangers from go I wonder how straight the dropouts, rear triangle etc are on bikes if perfect hanger alignment is the goal. With that said your point of bigger problems is well taken.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

I will use the valve cap or decal as a point of reference and spin the wheel to line up when adjusting. 

Helps to alleviate mis adjusting for those of us who have a slight wobble.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

WHALENARD said:


> If you a had a rim out of true and used different points of the rim that would prove problematic.


A quick spin of the wheels will show if it's not true and again if it is it should be getting fixed anyway. You guys are looking for problems where there are none. These alignment tools work. Sorry, they just do and they don't need fixing.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Mr Pig said:


> ...the bigger the number of gears, the more critical it gets...(


I wouldn't know. I'm still riding my 10 speed English racer. That's a 2x5 for those that don't know or remember.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Lone Rager said:


> I'm still riding my 10 speed English racer.


You could set that derailleur with a hammer and it would still work.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^ Interesting...
> I have always associated Friar Quade somewhat like a Trappist Monk and choose to see more parallels to the art of making hand crafted brew over a religious figure.


That's definitely the intent of the monk.

I home brewed for years, still do on occasion. There's a ton of examples of the craft beer pulling names from cycling so I wanted to turn the tables and borrow something from brewing.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

WHALENARD said:


> I get that but....
> I can think of some hypotheticals where the rim and cassette may not be in line. Especially with parks method where you are only checking one part of the rim. I'm not an engineer but also seems the further you move from the cassette the larger any discrepancy becomes?


The larger diameter to check against is a benefit as it magnifies the mis-alignment. The cogs can have some run out in them, pretty common in the freewheel system. But cassette style hubs tend to run pretty true. If they're not true, you're just going to chase your tail trying to align them since it will be different as the cassette rotates.



WHALENARD said:


> Haven't checked in a while but thought Parks instructions where to use the valve stem as a guide and check at 4 points N/S/W/E. If you a had a rim out of true and used different points of the rim that would prove problematic.


Best practice is to use the same point on the rim to take those measurements. Rotating the wheel as needed. This removes the true of the wheel from the equation. The other thing that's wise is to find the plane that the hanger is bent in and start bending it back in that plane. This typically results in a lot less bending of the hanger which will maintain it's integrity and durability as much as possible.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

customfab said:


> The larger diameter to check against is a benefit as it magnifies the mis-alignment. ]
> 
> Ah, that makes sense. For some reason I was thinking the inverse.


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## fuzzymusketeer (May 22, 2019)

$13.99 DIY...works great

-3/4" square steel tubing at ~16" long
-M10/1.00-50mm hex head bolt
-2 small washers
-2 medium washers
-2 nuts

Drill a hole, as straight as you can(drill press recommended), in one end of the square tubing. Put a large washer on the bolt, insert into drilled hole, add large washer and 1-2 small washers on other end of bolt. Put a nut on the bolt finger tight allowing the bolt to freely spin, but not wobble(similar to freehub adjustment). Tighten 2nd nut onto the assembly. All done!!

Use a ruler against the rim/tool to measure and gauge the adjustment needed. You can also drill a 2nd hole with another long bolt to eliminate the need of the ruler.

Gauge, align, and ride the hell out of it!! Then, you can tell your yuppy friends that you saved $60+ on a tool that is hardly used, and on a part that costs a fraction of the price of the tool.

Anybody else make their own version?


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

fuzzymusketeer said:


> Anybody else make their own version?


I used a similar bolt along with a length of 1/2" threaded stock and some hunks of scrap Aluminum I machined. Works well enough.


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## fuzzymusketeer (May 22, 2019)

I was thinking about using a threaded rod instead of square tubing because 2 of the so-called hardward stores I checked did not have a 50mm bolt that would be long enough to make it all the way through with added washers to still thread into hanger. I finally found one, so I didn't need to go that route.


wayold said:


> I used a similar bolt along with a length of 1/2" threaded stock and some hunks of scrap Aluminum I machined. Works well enough.
> 
> View attachment 1289927


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