# Why dos every one take off there reflectors?



## ChevyM14 (Jul 16, 2007)

I dont know if its a law in the U.S. but I seem to remember every bike I have ever gotin has had reflectors on it when I took it home from the LBS. I see that just about ever bike on here dos not have any reflectors. why dos every one talk them off? I have been out a few times where it has gotin dark and I had wished that my hole bike was covered in reflectors. dos it add the much wait or do people think it just look stupid?


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## 88mustanggt (Nov 8, 2008)

they fall off on the trail. if you ever do a night ride you will see them scaterd off the trail


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

because they're useless, even on road bikes. (well, useless in comparison to what you should have on your bike). 

a small led powered blinking light is dramatically more visible on the back, same for a small head light up front. a lot of city/state laws require lights if you're riding at night. reflectors wont cut it.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Because bears dont have headlights .


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## cobi (Apr 29, 2008)

One Pivot said:


> a small led powered blinking light is dramatically more visible on the back, same for a small head light up front.


+1

If you are worried about being visible from the side, many types of bike clothing have reflective material. Or you can put reflective tape on your bike.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Reflectors as the name goes "reflect" light aimed at them. They're not very useful though for preventing getting hit by cars without their headlights on at night (which is a surprisingly common sight in many cities every day of the week).


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## ChevyM14 (Jul 16, 2007)

ok, so it is clear that there is a lot better ways to be seen at night, but no one has told me yet why anyone would take them off. (they do brake off, but that still dos not enplane whey no one is running them.) why not just lave them on as one more thing to keep a car from hitting you?


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## cobi (Apr 29, 2008)

ChevyM14 said:


> ok, so it is clear that there is a lot better ways to be seen at night, but no one has told me yet why anyone would take them off. (they do brake off, but that still dos not enplane whey no one is running them.) why not just lave them on as one more thing to keep a car from hitting you?


Actually the first responder did. Most people would argue that littering trails with plastic reflector bits is a bad idea. If the bike is a commuter only... by all means leave them on.



88mustanggt said:


> they fall off on the trail. if you ever do a night ride you will see them scaterd off the trail


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## NashVis (Jun 19, 2009)

Took em off cause they look ghey. Now I wish I had a more techy reason for doing so.


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## cobi (Apr 29, 2008)

NashVis said:


> Took em off cause they look ghey. Now I wish I had a more techy reason for doing so.


Can't believe it took 9 posts for that response. I figured it would be in the top 2!


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## LWright (Jan 29, 2006)

Because reflectors fall off and litter the trails, so most just remove them at home. They get loose and rattle. They serve no purpose on a trail, only on a road.
I feel most of us refine our bikes to suit their intended purpose and do not want extra clutter on the bike.
We choose parts that stand up to rough use.
If you feel safer with reflectors then feel free to deck the halls with as many as you like.
I have small strips of reflective tape on my mountain bikes for times I may spend on the road after dark. They weigh nothing, do not rattle and do not fall off. My seat also has reflective surfaces built in.
My cruiser has reflectors because they serve a purpose on the road and look so cool.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

They are required by our wonderful CPSC http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/regsumbicycles.pdf.

I take them off as they're useless on my bikes and look like crap to boot. If I ride at night on the road I use a proper light and flasher for the rear of the bike, not worried about being hit from the side, just the rear. On trail at night no flasher and well, stealth can be a good thing...


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## FireDog46 (Jan 13, 2004)

ChevyM14 said:


> I dont know if its a law in the U.S. but I seem to remember every bike I have ever gotin has had reflectors on it when I took it home from the LBS. I see that just about ever bike on here dos not have any reflectors. why dos every one talk them off? I have been out a few times where it has gotin dark and I had wished that my hole bike was covered in reflectors. dos it add the much wait or do people think it just look stupid?


I put reflectors on my Shimano DX pedals
BLING-BLING


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## davidbeinct (Dec 6, 2007)

I didn't take my reflectors off, I built my bike without reflectors.

David B.


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## ireland57 (Sep 11, 2009)

A couple of fellas I know have had wheel reflectors come adrift and smash spokes.

Before they told me that I thought they were a great idea as they help make a bike easier to see on the road at night. 

One incident resulted in a new sport called "road bouncing".


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

Do u ride ur bike on trails? Yes? Then what the hell do u need reflectors for oher than littering trails when they break.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

davidbeinct said:


> I didn't take my reflectors off, I built my bike without reflectors.
> 
> David B.


Same here.


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

Reflectors, and that plastic disc behind the cassette make a nice mountain bike look like a department store bike. Save some weight and look less Walmart in the process. If you're using the bike for its intended purpose, reflectors are not useful. If you need to ride on the road, then I suggest you have proper blinkers front and back.


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## ettore (Nov 13, 2004)

On my roadbike, I actually put reflectors ON the wheels (it was a project to make my bike look like more of a piece of garbage). However, at speeds on downhills, they actually misbalance my wheels quite a bit ... to the point the bike actually shuddered ... which isn't nice on a roadbike at 60+km/h.

I ended up putting reflective tape on the frame, though I could have added an opposing reflector to fix the problem too. Of course, if I hadn't smashed the reflectors off after that horrible first downhill.

At present, that bike has reflective tape on the side of pretty much every tube, blinkers front and back, handlebar streamers (those are new) and an orange flag ... it's the ugliest Devinci you have ever seen but it does it's job of being visible far better than those reflectors ever did.

Edit: oh, and the tape weighs less


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## Zanetti (Sep 18, 2005)

I've never seen a car on my local MTB trails.....










...so no reflectors for me.


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## Ricko (Jan 14, 2004)

What the fukza reflector?


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## SwampDonkeyDisco (Mar 3, 2010)

Simple...When night ridin, you don't want to alert Sasquatch of your presence...


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*They offend a sense of choice*

They are not relevant to 99% of what we do, We make specific choices to use bikes, frames, tools, and components based upon what WE feel is necessary for the kind of riding we do. Just look at this forum and see what we do about choices of things for purposes. You rarely see anything about which reflectors to use.

Reflectors are a stipulation of the law but that has nothing to do with whether I think they function in any way I feel is important. If I need light I get lights. I require my team to have lights but they have to be bright and visible, not incidental to some vehicle or situation which emits light to be reflected, which is all reflectors can do.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

My trail bike has none. If I need some light, I have a blinkie and a headlight I can strap on for riding to/from my house from the local trails.

My commuter also has the ghey factory reflectors removed. It has enough reflective tape on it, however, that it's impossible to realize what it is on the roads at night. Add to it a headlight, two rear blinkies, and a blinkie rope light wrapped around the frame and it looks like a F'n UFO and drivers in my town give a WIDE berth.

Those of us who know what we're doing have a system that makes us far more visible than those dumb factory reflectors.

The people you should be complaining about are the ones with no lights, no reflectors, and who wear dark clothing while riding slowly and erratically on the wrong side of the road.


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

I break off reflectors and pie plates off immediately because I'm a freakin tough guy. A tough guy that wears tight fitting clothes and a stupid looking helmet.


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## swampboy62 (Feb 10, 2009)

I didn't take off my reflectors - I broke 'em off, hitting trees & sh!t. Reflectors are NOT trail tested tough.

Steve Z


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Weight! Those things weigh like 12 grams.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Not many cars on my singletrack.


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## tklemin (Mar 22, 2007)

Wheel reflectors do very little from being hit. They mostly reflect light when shined on at 90 degree angles. By the time a cars headlights will reflect off the wheels of a crossing bike they wont have enough time to stop. Reflectors hanging off the front or back just pose cut and scrape issues during falls. 

Heres Cali. law.
d) Every bicycle operated upon any highway during darkness shall be equipped with the following:

A lamp emitting a white light which illuminates the highway and is visible from a distance of 300 feet to the front and the sides of the bicycle. 
A red reflector mounted on the rear of the bicycle and visible from 500 feet to the rear of the bicycle. 
A white or yellow reflector mounted on each pedal visible 200 feet to the front and rear of the bicycle and a white or red reflector on each side to the rear of the center of the bicycle, except bicycles which are equipped with reflectorized tires on the front and the rear need not be equipped with side reflectors. All reflectorized tires must meet DMV requirements. 
e) A lamp or lamp combination, emitting a white light, attached to the operator and visible from a distance of 300 feet in front and from the sides of the bicycle, may be used in place of a lamp attached to the bike.

A car moving at 60 mph equals 88 feet per second. That means a driver has 5-6 seconds to see your tiny 2 inch reflector and figure out what you are and avoid hitting you. Good luck with that. Get a quality red flashing LED. They can be seen at very far distances. Reflective clothing helps greatly to identify a rider from the rear.


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## blog hogs (Feb 13, 2010)

So the other kids wont make fun of me.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

ChevyM14 said:


> I dont know if its a law in the U.S. but I seem to remember every bike I have ever gotin has had reflectors on it when I took it home from the LBS. I see that just about ever bike on here dos not have any reflectors. why dos every one talk them off? I have been out a few times where it has gotin dark and I had wished that my hole bike was covered in reflectors. dos it add the much wait or do people think it just look stupid?


I have front and rear reflectors on my road bike, and to many reflectors to count on my commuter bike, but they don't serve much purpose on the mountain bike, and they tend to fall off during real trail riding. I took the ones off that came on my wifes mountain bike and added them to our commuter bikes.

If you ride the bike at night on the roads, I would leave them, but you may want to check how well they are secured so you don't just add to the reflector trash on the trails. However, if you do ride at night on the roads, think about a rear blinky light and front headlight. Even if the headlight is useless for seeing, they are very good for being seen.


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## Oracle7775 (Oct 31, 2008)

jeffw-13 said:


> Weight! Those things weigh like 12 grams.


Wind resistance, too.


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## ClarkK (Mar 13, 2010)

I took mine off because of weight. I know that they don't weigh much, but I figured that every bit helps. I don't ride much at night, or on the road, for that matter. I'm definitly not concerned about appearance. I'll look "gay" if it means being safe. If I thought I would need them, then I would put them back on. Otherwise, grams add up to pounds.


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## dagenhay (Mar 10, 2008)

Zanetti said:


> I've never seen a car on my local MTB trails.....
> 
> ...so no reflectors for me.



















Once in a while the locals kids get out of control driving on my local trails.


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## ClarkK (Mar 13, 2010)

dagenhay said:


> View attachment 532774
> 
> 
> View attachment 532773
> ...


*Judging from the bullet holes on that car, you might need a Kevlar vest, too!*


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## suprcivic (Aug 17, 2008)

> Otherwise, grams add up to pounds.


I like that.

I think grams add up to kilograms. Ounces add up to pounds. 

Anyone ever wonder why we talk about components in grams but bikes in pounds? Mt bikes in inches and road bikes in centimeters?


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 13, 2007)

suprcivic said:


> Anyone ever wonder why we talk about components in grams but bikes in pounds? Mt bikes in inches and road bikes in centimeters?


For weight weenies, dealing in grams allows you to talk with integers (10, 100) instead of fractions of ounces.

As far as MTBs in inches and road bikes in metric? Well, if you agree with the argument that the mountain bike was "invented" and developed largely in the USA, then it was adherence to the prevailing system of measurement in the country of origin.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

suprcivic said:


> Anyone ever wonder why we talk about components in grams but bikes in pounds? Mt bikes in inches and road bikes in centimeters?


We don't have good teeny weight increments unless you want to use carats. Actually that might be good as some of the lightweight stuff is pretty pricey.


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## Dalis12 (Jan 15, 2008)

my commuter had 'em until one night i was riding home, the one on the front tire snapped off, hit the pavement, bounced back up and hit me in the face.....


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## sherijumper (Feb 19, 2007)

My daughters have reflectors on their bikes .


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Slow Eddie said:


> As far as MTBs in inches and road bikes in metric? Well, if you agree with the argument that the mountain bike was "invented" and developed largely in the USA, then it was adherence to the prevailing system of measurement in the country of origin.


I live in a country where we have been officially using the metric system for over 30 years.

I'm 6' tall and weigh 200 pounds, ride a 19" bike and all the lumber I buy is in board feet.

The wrenches for my bike are all in millimetres (millimeters in American) and I need 2 litres of water if I'm riding in 30 degrees because that's fricken hot.

It's 15 kilometres to town but only a mile to the end of my road.

Help Me!!!!!


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

The USA has been trying to adopt the metric system since the 1800s and still can't get it right. Largely it gets held up by idiots in congress every time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States

But as to how much the plastic reflectors (and their mounts) weighs...your standard front and rear set and a pair of wheel reflectors combine for 3 ounces. A 10 foot roll of 2" wide reflectorized tape weighs one ounce and is enough to do up several bikes.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> Well, if you agree with the argument that the mountain bike was "invented" and developed largely in the USA, then it was adherence to the prevailing system of measurement in the country of origin.


Someone actually thinks it was invented elsewhere? Whatever...


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> Someone actually thinks it was invented elsewhere? Whatever...


While the commercial version of "mountain biking" may have originated in the US (and in various places), there were plenty of places in history where people rode their bikes off-road and could be termed "mountain biking". Kinda like the Mormons reinventing Christianity, doesn't mean much in real terms....


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

ricot83 said:


> Do u ride ur bike on trails? Yes? Then what the hell do u need reflectors for oher than littering trails when they break.


I also ride my bike across the city *to* the trailhead, generally on arterial streets. Lights are definitely of primary importance, but some reflectivity often helps. One of my favorite reflective items is reflective legbands, since the motion catches peoples' attention and helps them figure out what they're seeing. Cheap, light, portable, stowable.

Regarding the main topic: if you'd like some reflectorization on the bike without excess weight, rattling, brackets or the other usual drawbacks, get some high-quality reflective tape. This is my favorite: Reflexite V82 Inexpensive, very high reflective performance, comes in colors, weighs basically nothing.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

I was talking to a fellow from India who is in his 80's. He rode his (English) bike through the mountains to school every day when he was 6 years old. In the 1960's I rode a 1959 Henley off-road bicycle with springer forks and flat bars, made in Canada.

Invented? That would be a tough call. Popularized? You could probably go with the standard "Gary Fisher and friends" for that.


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## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

I put cards in my spokes, sounds really cool too.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

Wheel reflectors get removed if they happen to be on a bike that I end up owning. I often run a white handlebar and red seatpost mounted reflector though, even on bikes I build up myself. I've never had one break, not gotten cuts or scrapes from them. I ride to the trailhead more often than I drive there, and reflectors definitely help make you visible. Yes, a front and rear light are necessary for safe travel at night, but they're fragile(with exceptions), and batteries die. If you've got the reflectors in place, it's one less thing to worry about and a bit more visibility to boot.

5-6 seconds is plenty of time to react to an unexpected object traveling along the shoulder of a road. If it isn't for you, you shouldn't be driving.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> I was talking to a fellow from India who is in his 80's. He rode his (English) bike through the mountains to school every day when he was 6 years old. In the 1960's I rode a 1959 Henley off-road bicycle with springer forks and flat bars, made in Canada.


I was under the inpression no one thought of putting fat tires on a bike and riding that creation of road until Joe Brezzer and Gary Fisher thought it up.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Except neither of them actually thought it up. They both were cyclocross racers who at a CX nationals in california in the early-70s encountered a group of riders who were on converted schwinns and other paperboy bikes, many with gears and such taken from road and city bikes of the era. 5 speed freewheels, maillard 3-space internal hubs, etc. They looked at them and Joe's brain went "hey, that's a good idea...". And gary's brain went "hey that's a good idea I can steal and claim for years later that I invented myself". Tom Ritchey was at that same race, as were several other famed folks. MBA ran an article on this event and those riders and included a photo taken from that CX race showing these kids in jeans and these off-road bikes with springer forks, flat bars, gears and big knobbies vs all the skinny short/jersey wearing CX guys on their slim little bikes with skinny cx tires. I think the article was published around 1996-97.


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## ATLMTB90 (Apr 3, 2010)

Well on one bike i didnt like the look of it and on my other bike it didnt have any on it when I got it.


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## davidbeinct (Dec 6, 2007)

DeeEight said:


> Except neither of them actually thought it up. They both were cyclocross racers who at a CX nationals in california in the early-70s encountered a group of riders who were on converted schwinns and other paperboy bikes, many with gears and such taken from road and city bikes of the era. 5 speed freewheels, maillard 3-space internal hubs, etc. They looked at them and Joe's brain went "hey, that's a good idea...". And gary's brain went "hey that's a good idea I can steal and claim for years later that I invented myself". Tom Ritchey was at that same race, as were several other famed folks. MBA ran an article on this event and those riders and included a photo taken from that CX race showing these kids in jeans and these off-road bikes with springer forks, flat bars, gears and big knobbies vs all the skinny short/jersey wearing CX guys on their slim little bikes with skinny cx tires. I think the article was published around 1996-97.


Well, like Elvis, they had the sense to steal something cool, and much like the latter day rock fans who like to ***** about Elvis, none of us mountain bikers would be doing what we're doing if not for them.

"Talent borrows, genius steals." Oscar Wilde

David B.


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## Singlespeed McGee (Jun 14, 2009)

ChevyM14 said:


> I dont know if its a law in the U.S., but I seem to remember every bike I have ever gotten has had reflectors on it when I took it home from the LBS. I see that just about every bike on here does not have reflectors. Why does everyone take them off? I have been out a few times where it has gotten dark and I had wished that my whole bike was covered in reflectors. Does it add that much weight or do people think it just looks stupid?


I take them off becuase they don't look right on bikes to me. I think they make a bike look less clean.
Fixed your grammerz.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Except neither of them actually thought it up. They both were cyclocross racers who at a CX nationals in california in the early-70s encountered a group of riders who were on converted schwinns and other paperboy bikes, many with gears and such taken from road and city bikes of the era. 5 speed freewheels, maillard 3-space internal hubs, etc. They looked at them and Joe's brain went "hey, that's a good idea...". And gary's brain went "hey that's a good idea I can steal and claim for years later that I invented myself". Tom Ritchey was at that same race, as were several other famed folks. MBA ran an article on this event and those riders and included a photo taken from that CX race showing these kids in jeans and these off-road bikes with springer forks, flat bars, gears and big knobbies vs all the skinny short/jersey wearing CX guys on their slim little bikes with skinny cx tires. I think the article was published around 1996-97.


Well at least we can agree that the US produced the first production mountain bike. The Specialized Stumpjumper. In fact the first one is in the Smithsonian.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> Well at least we can agree that the US produced the first production mountain bike. The Specialized Stumpjumper. In fact the first one is in the Smithsonian.


First mass produced mountain bike maybe. IIRC the first Special Ed mountain bike frames weren't made in the US, either.


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

ChevyM14 said:


> I dont know if its a law in the U.S. but I seem to remember every bike I have ever gotin has had reflectors on it when I took it home from the LBS. I see that just about ever bike on here dos not have any reflectors. why dos every one talk them off? I have been out a few times where it has gotin dark and I had wished that my hole bike was covered in reflectors. dos it add the much wait or do people think it just look stupid?


1) Dude, I'm no spelling Nazi, but your spelling is atrocious! Remember, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

2) To answer your question, and to expound upon what others here have mentioned, reflectors just don't work.. Assuming you're biking in the dark, ride with lights, both front and rear.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> First mass produced mountain bike maybe. IIRC the first Special Ed mountain bike frames weren't made in the US, either.


No specialized has ever been produced in the usa. They've ALWAYS sourced from Taiwan.

And actually Univega had the first mass produced american brand mountain bike. The Alpina Sport was debuted at the same Interbike as the first stumpjumper, outsold it about five to one, but the stumpy is the one that gets remembered by most as being the first. I say american brand because Nishiki Canada had a model the year before called the Caribou which was a mass produced mountain bike.


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## Cobretti (May 23, 2005)

The Man, apparently, wants us to have reflectors on our bikes. So I took mine off. Because I play by my own rules. Nobody else's. Not even my own.


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## rustybkr (Mar 30, 2010)

Cobretti said:


> The Man, apparently, wants us to have reflectors on our bikes. So I took mine off. Because I play by my own rules. Nobody else's. Not even my own.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:thumbsup:


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

tklemin said:


> Wheel reflectors do very little from being hit. They mostly reflect light when shined on at 90 degree angles. By the time a cars headlights will reflect off the wheels of a crossing bike they wont have enough time to stop. Reflectors hanging off the front or back just pose cut and scrape issues during falls.
> 
> Heres Cali. law.
> d) Every bicycle operated upon any highway during darkness shall be equipped with the following:
> ...


Good points. I just want to point out that reflectors are more effective than lights in some circumstances. But they're very limited.

First the stock wheel reflectors are virtually useless as they cannot be seen until too late. They are bright at the correct angle but taper off drastically. Frame tape wrapped around the tubes is much more effective as it will reflect from any angle. The other goto tool are the spoke lights currently made by Nite-ize and Cateye.

My current favorite rear blinkie is the Portland Design Works Radbot 1000. It is easily twice as bright as the PB Superflash and it includes a reflector that will keep you street legal.

It's really best to have both. All these tools will keep you legal. And, the multipcolored spoke lights are kinda fun in urban area. It will make you a novelty as opposed to an annoyance.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

DeeEight said:


> Except neither of them actually thought it up. They both were cyclocross racers who at a CX nationals in california in the early-70s encountered a group of riders who were on converted schwinns and other paperboy bikes, many with gears and such taken from road and city bikes of the era. 5 speed freewheels, maillard 3-space internal hubs, etc. They looked at them and Joe's brain went "hey, that's a good idea...". And gary's brain went "hey that's a good idea I can steal and claim for years later that I invented myself". Tom Ritchey was at that same race, as were several other famed folks. MBA ran an article on this event and those riders and included a photo taken from that CX race showing these kids in jeans and these off-road bikes with springer forks, flat bars, gears and big knobbies vs all the skinny short/jersey wearing CX guys on their slim little bikes with skinny cx tires. I think the article was published around 1996-97.


That is so wrong on so many counts. I was at the race in question, and of course Tom Ritchey, then a 17 year old road racer, was not. Gary and I were roommates, and had been riding off-road for a couple of years by that time on coaster brake bikes with added front brakes. Sure the MDC (Morrow Dirt Club) beat us to the multiple gear bikes, but then they disappeared for 20 years and Gary and Tom and I started making and selling bikes under the brand name "MountainBikes."

This is a threadjack though.  Just go to my website and get the first-hand story, not some canned hearsay legend from MBA pimping their advertisers.

I don't have reflectors on my bikes.


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## Hellrazor666 (Oct 27, 2008)

ChevyM14 said:


> ok, so it is clear that there is a lot better ways to be seen at night, but no one has told me yet why anyone would take them off. (they do brake off, but that still dos not enplane whey no one is running them.) why not just lave them on as one more thing to keep a car from hitting you?


Please there are so many dumb drivers out there that just cause you have a reflector on doesn't mean they wont hit you. I ride with 2 lights up front and two red lights on the bike of my bike and have been almost hit numerous times. Maybe dumb drivers should where them so I know who the dumb drivers are


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

There are others who beat MDC to the geared offroad bike concept for that matter... if you consider the swiss army's bicycle battalion (now disbanded) that goes back to least the second world war for that matter. The US Army Calvary had a bicycle mounted company in I believe the early 1900s. There certainly were no roads back then. I've seen articles from people in Alaska, the UK, the yukon, and other far from california places with essentially the same geared fat tire bike idea all independantly in the 1950s to 1960s time span. 

I respect and appreciate what you did for the sport Charlie, I just don't like how Gary has taken to reinventing the history so much in marketing, not to mention how many ideas he's ripped from others outright and then claimed as his own. Ok you guys came up with the brand name Mountain Bike, and this explains why in the 80s most other brands referred to their bikes as All Terrain Bikes or Off Road Bikes. As it happens, I was trying to remember who was in that race and the name 'kelly' came to mind but i wasn't sure.

Getting back to topic... the best use for those plastic reflectors is nailing, screwing or being Zip-tied to trees to mark trails for night riding. You can also hang them with string/fishing line from branches like little glowing windchimes.


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## PscyclePath (Aug 29, 2007)

I take my wheel reflectors off as I don't care to have that extra rotating weight and potential unbalanacing stuff whirling around in my wheels. I run bright enough lights to blind the ninjas, and enough other reflective stuff to stand out like a christmas tree anyway ;-)


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> No specialized has ever been produced in the usa. They've ALWAYS sourced from Taiwan.
> 
> And actually Univega had the first mass produced american brand mountain bike. The Alpina Sport was debuted at the same Interbike as the first stumpjumper, outsold it about five to one, but the stumpy is the one that gets remembered by most as being the first. I say american brand because Nishiki Canada had a model the year before called the Caribou which was a mass produced mountain bike.


Wow, bicycle reflectors to the history of the mountain bike all in one thread!

Actually I think it was Japan for the first runs of SpecialEd bikes. Japan still was a player then, Taiwan wasn't there yet. Univegas also were from Japan originally I'm pretty sure. SpecialEd did make some bikes in Morgan Hill, maybe just the Skunk Works bikes for a while?

The 25th US Infantry Bicycle Corps division you were thinking of is the Buffalo Soldiers from the late 1800s who did some amazingly long cross country rides fully geared up on beasts of bikes.

Was hoping RR would add some first person history as to the development of the sport and equipment that he and his crew kicked into high gear so to speak...


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> No specialized has ever been produced in the usa. They've ALWAYS sourced from Taiwan.
> 
> And actually Univega had the first mass produced american brand mountain bike. The Alpina Sport was debuted at the same Interbike as the first stumpjumper, outsold it about five to one, but the stumpy is the one that gets remembered by most as being the first. I say american brand because Nishiki Canada had a model the year before called the Caribou which was a mass produced mountain bike.


Make sure you tell that to the Smithsonian experts that when you call.

And if I recall correctly Specialized bikes at one time were made here in the US. I'll look into it. I do know they had a sticker on the seat tube that said "Designed in California".


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> Make sure you tell that to the Smithsonian experts that when you call.
> 
> And if I recall correctly Specialized bikes at one time were made here in the US. I'll look into it. I do know they had a sticker on the seat tube that said "Designed in California".


The sticker was probably because they couldn't say "Made in USA", though. That kind of labeling, while it may be accurate, can also be misleading (which is why they do it).


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

dirt farmer said:


> 1) Dude, I'm no spelling Nazi, but your spelling is atrocious! Remember, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
> 
> 2) To answer your question, and to expound upon what others here have mentioned, reflectors just don't work.. Assuming you're biking in the dark, ride with lights, both front and rear.


Maybe the man is not from the USA?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Biohazard74 said:


> Maybe the man is not from the USA?


"From
(City, State or Country):
Wantagh
Year started riding:
New York "


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

He started riding in New York. He might be from somewhere else


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Kona0197 said:


> Make sure you tell that to the Smithsonian experts that when you call.
> 
> And if I recall correctly Specialized bikes at one time were made here in the US. I'll look into it. I do know they had a sticker on the seat tube that said "Designed in California".


Never made in the United States. "Designed" by purchasing four Ritchey bikes from me and Gary in early 1981, with forks made by John Padgett with far more clearance over the tire than the Ritchey forks. They wanted bikes at bro-buddy prices, we unloaded a few factory seconds, which became the basis for the first Stumpjumper. Production drawings sent to Japan were made from these bikes by Tim Neenan of Lighthouse Cycles in Santa Ynez, California, and the first run had a sticker, "Designed by Tim Neenan." Neenan only did the first year design. Jim Merz came from Portland to work at Specialized in 1982 and took over the Stumpjumper design work.

Every component on the first Stumpjumper was the same one used on MountainBikes, with a single exception. The publicity shots even show Magura levers as used on MountainBikes, but they switched to Tomaselli when the bikes went on sale. What does that tell you?

But the Stumpjumpers were never made in the United States.

And I don't have reflectors in my bike.

Would anyone like to discuss this in a more appropriate thread?


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well OK so they were not made in the US. They were however the first production mountain bike. 

I don't have reflectors on my bike as well. 

Perhaps we should start a new thread.


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## Rocksuperstar (Mar 26, 2010)

I spoke to a few professional drivers and they all agree, all a reflector on a bike does is startle drivers and make them go, _"wtf??"_ seconds before they plough into you.

Remember, many drivers of those horseless, mechanical, sh*t-belching, chariots of sodom are easily startled by shiny things or bright lights - be vigilant, don't torment them, it works out better for us all in the long run.


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## ak_cowboy (Nov 17, 2008)

I didn't like the look on my mtn bike, but the pedals I got for my Beach cruiser made them look good. It all depends on appearance


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

Rocksuperstar said:


> I spoke to a few professional drivers and they all agree, all a reflector on a bike does is startle drivers and make them go, _"wtf??"_ seconds before they plough into you.
> 
> Remember, many drivers of those horseless, mechanical, sh*t-belching, chariots of sodom are easily startled by shiny things or bright lights - be vigilant, don't torment them, it works out better for us all in the long run.


So, all the ones you spoke to have hit cyclists?


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## Rocksuperstar (Mar 26, 2010)

sean salach said:


> So, all the ones you spoke to have hit cyclists?


Haha! No, not all of them, but a few of them - sadly, whilst i rib the drivers, it's a disappointing situation around my area where it's mainly the youngsters on BMXs that seem to always end up decorating grills. I'm sure it's because the schools over here stopped doing cycling proficiency but I regularly see kids riding like morons in inappropriate places. It's a proper shame, some of them have got tricks i wish i had the talent to pull off, just not the common sense to go with it. Actually, now i think about it, maybe that's _why_ they can pull some of them tricks...

anyway, reflectors, yeah they suck, and i heard they're also to blame for global warming so... yeah, stuff...


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## camdz (Jul 19, 2010)

SwampDonkeyDisco said:


> Simple...When night ridin, you don't want to alert Sasquatch of your presence...


Do Sasquatch carry flashlightst?


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

because they don't really do anything, and most people hate finding them on the trail


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Kona0197 said:


> Make sure you tell that to the Smithsonian experts that when you call.
> 
> And if I recall correctly Specialized bikes at one time were made here in the US. I'll look into it. I do know they had a sticker on the seat tube that said "Designed in California".


try again.....

Oh, back to the reflectors.....
I take mine off because the other kids in the woods would make fun of me.


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## powpig2002 (Sep 13, 2009)

take'em off or you look like a ****(not that that's a bad thing)


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## Dr DW (Aug 2, 2010)

*Very Information*



Bikinfoolferlife said:


> They are required by our wonderful CPSC https://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/regsumbicycles.pdf.
> 
> I take them off as they're useless on my bikes and look like crap to boot. If I ride at night on the road I use a proper light and flasher for the rear of the bike, not worried about being hit from the side, just the rear. On trail at night no flasher and well, stealth can be a good thing...


Very informative.










*Sucks to be h​ung!*


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> Well OK so they were not made in the US. They were however the first production mountain bike.
> 
> I don't have reflectors on my bike as well.
> 
> Perhaps we should start a new thread.


[/quote]

NO... they weren't.... pay attention....

Univega's Alpina Sport was at the same Interbike show as Specialized's first Stumpjumper but it was already in production by then, not just four factory second MountainBike's thrown together but not yet in production. The Alpina outsold the Stumpjumper by a factor of FIVE in the first year.

But a year earlier, Nishiki Canada was selling the Caribou (that's in 1981) which was a Tange Mangaloy frame and fork, with Araya alloy rims, stainless spokes on Suzue cartridge bearing hubs, with 15 speeds, Suntour thumbshifters, DiaCompe Brakes and brake levers, Suntour derailleurs, a 1-piece bull moose type bar-stem combo, Tange headset and bottom bracket, Sugino triple touring crankset, and Suntour XC Beartrap pedals. It was $800 cdn brand new. The frames came from japan, they sold several thousand across canada.


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## Dr DW (Aug 2, 2010)

*The Proof*



Rocksuperstar said:


> anyway, reflectors, yeah they suck, and i heard they're also to blame for global warming so... yeah, stuff...


 Reflectors will kill you. Every reflector you encounter brings you nearer to death.

Reflectors are associated with all the major diseases of the body. Using them breeds wars and Communism. They can be related to most airline tragedies. Auto accidents are caused by reflectors. There exists a positive relationship between crime waves and the use of this ultra shiny device. For example:

o Nearly all sick people have seen reflectors; therefore, the effects are obviously cumulative.
o Of all the people who die from cancer, 99% of them that have ridden a bicycle have used reflectors.
o 100% of all soldiers have used reflectors; therefore, reflectors must be related to wars.
o 98.8% of all Communist sympathizers have used reflectors.
o 99.7% of all the people involved in the air and auto accidents saw a reflector within 14 days preceding the tragedy.
o 93.1% of all juvenile delinquents come from homes where reflectors were left on their bikes.

Evidence points to some startling long term effects of reflector use:

Of all the people born in 1865 who later used reflectors, there has been a 100% mortality rate.

All reflector users born between 1890 and 1900 have wrinkled skin, brittle bones, have lost most of their teeth and are afflicted by failing eyesight... if the ills that come from reflector use have not already resulted in their death.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

I put my NiteRider lights in my pants so when a sexy chica peeks in, her face lights up.


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## 2_WD (Jun 11, 2009)

adept1 said:


> Reflectors, and that plastic disc behind the cassette make a nice mountain bike look like a department store bike. Save some weight and look less Walmart in the process. If you're using the bike for its intended purpose, reflectors are not useful. If you need to ride on the road, then I suggest you have proper blinkers front and back.


+1 Most bikes sold in a LBS don't come with reflectors. Not only do they cheapen the look of the bike, break off easy and cause piotential messes on trails, they're not as effective as a proper light (F or R) setup to be riding at night. Plus, most serious riders have their own preferred lighting methods which may not necessarily include reflectors.

The only thing worse than reflectors on a mtn bike are kickstands


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

2_WD said:


> +1 Most bikes sold in a LBS don't come with reflectors.


I disagree - By law they're supposed to


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## 2_WD (Jun 11, 2009)

highdelll said:


> I disagree - By law they're supposed to


Maybe they're supposed to, but, the majority of (good) bikes (like 95%++ if i had to guess) i see in lbs' don't have reflectors on them. Maybe they don't build up the bikes with reflectors out of the box. When i bought my new Specialized FSR XC least year, there were no reflectors nor did the sales guy offer, or even mention, reflectors to me (i would've declined them regardless) as i use CatEye & Blackburn lighting systems.

All the dept store bikes have reflectors though (Sears, Bay, SportCheck, WallyMart etc). I used to manage the bike shop for 8 years at a local Sears store (in my younger days of the '90's) and i noticed this incongruency of reflectors only found on cheap bikes years ago...and nothing's really changed since.

Maybe it's different in the US...


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

2_WD said:


> ...
> Maybe it's different in the US...


yup


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## JCullen (Oct 20, 2009)

2_WD said:


> break off easy and cause piotential messes on trails,


Like This...?


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

JCullen said:


> Like This...?


If that's proof, lose the hydration pack, too!


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## KYjelly (Mar 11, 2010)

My partner bought me some of these helmet ID stickers, just incase.

I put some of the small square ones on the sides of my rims (thank god for disc brakes). Theyre hell bright, and look cool during 24hr races.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

The reflectors that come with bikes are only good as trail markers for finding your way at night. Of course to see them properly you need three magic shine lights on your bike and helmet.


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## fesch (Jul 30, 2009)

I don't think I've ever bought a mountain bike with reflectors and I just checked our bikes and none of the mountain bikes have them. Maybe some started with them and the trails beat them until they fell off, perhaps I thought they weighted too much and took them off or most likely no one thought deer needed another thing to freak out about and so they were never added.


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## bigfoot4300 (Jul 21, 2009)

ChevyM14 said:


> ok, so it is clear that there is a lot better ways to be seen at night, but no one has told me yet why anyone would take them off. (they do brake off, but that still dos not enplane whey no one is running them.) why not just lave them on as one more thing to keep a car from hitting you?


i know for the reflectors on the pedals when those hit rocks one side will break and then your pedal will fall to the heavier side. for the reflectors on the rims those will work lose and at high speeds they make a noise so i took those off just so i won't have to worry about them. the reflector on the seat, that was in the way on my saddle bag. the reflector on the handlebars i took that off because i can put other stuff there.

now if you are worried about being seen at night i'd suggest getting lights for your bike.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

GlassTrain said:


> If that's proof, lose the hydration pack, too!


Yeah, I am sick of finding them all over the trail.


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

Took 'em off my new ride this morning - other posters said it best when they said nothing makes your investment look more like some wallyworld pos.


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## dexetr30 (May 8, 2008)

The first two things to come off a new bike when I buy one is the refelctors and the spoke guard on the rear wheel. My MTB's only get used off road so I see absolutely no need for the reflectors.


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## froggy97 (Oct 16, 2009)

We've always removed the reflectors

Most people don't know this. But removing the reflectors from your bike can save anywhere from an ounce to 25 pounds!!! Though most people save under a 1/4 pound.

The reason used to be gram consciousness, which is now weight weeninism. Given the effect of rotational mass the wheel reflectors are always the first to go.
Or they fall off, anyway
Or they are "ghey" We used to call it Lame. Kids call is "ghey". Ghey to me means no kids and more disposable income if not dink (double income no kids).

3M reflective tape is invisible, weighs less and is generally lighter.

It doesn't matter how you rationalize removing the reflectors. They are stupid legal requirements and even on the road can be upstaged by better solutions


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## Keepthechange (May 18, 2010)

looking through pictures of most bikes on their manufacturers websites you notice a trend....


Reflectors ? I don't need no stinkin' reflectors !


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## Oracle7775 (Oct 31, 2008)

I took the reflectors off my MTB because they serve no purpose on the trail, and I like the cleaner look.

I took the reflectors off my road bike to make room for the two red blinkies in back and a magicshine in front. I know there's space on my bars/frame to keep them all mounted, but damn, how much crap am I expected to have hanging off my frame? I do wear reflective arm/leg bands, though.


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## NO_BRAKES (May 4, 2006)

Zanetti said:


> I've never seen a car on my local MTB trails.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice trail. Let me guess, CT?

To the guy that wrote this thread. USA law asks that all bikes sold in the USA must come with reflectives to increase visibility. As to why they are on mountainbikes, some people ride them on the road.

The reason why most guys take them off? It's how you tell a Newbie vs a Veteran. Any questions?


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## julioardz (May 29, 2008)

I remove them because they fall off. It's better than having them litter the trails. Plus they are not necessarily required by law, at least not in Texas.

Texas Law - Required Safety Equipment 
A person may not operate a bicycle unless the bicycle is equipped with a brake capable of making a braked wheel skid on dry, level, clean pavement. _(which I think is an attempt to control the spread of hipsters)_

A person may not operate a bicycle at nighttime unless the bicycle is equipped with:
a lamp on the front of the bicycle that emits a white light visible from a distance of at least 500 feet in front of the bicycle; and on the rear of the bicycle, a red reflector that is of a type approved by the department and visible when directly in front of lawful upper beams of motor vehicle headlamps from all distances from 50 to 300 feet to the rear of the bicycle; or a lamp that emits a red light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the rear of the bicycle.​
On top of that, there may be specif city ordinance that address this, but those would vary across the state.


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## metaljim (Apr 22, 2009)

julioardz said:


> I remove them because they fall off. It's better than having them litter the trails. Plus they are not necessarily required by law, at least not in Texas.
> 
> Texas Law - Required Safety Equipment
> A person may not operate a bicycle unless the bicycle is equipped with a brake capable of making a braked wheel skid on dry, level, clean pavement. _(which I think is an attempt to control the spread of hipsters)_
> ...




This has been around far longer than the fakenger kids.​


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Can the OP fix the title of the thread? The "there" has been buggin the crap outta me :madman:


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

metaljim said:


> This has been around far longer than the fakenger kids.


it's tongue in cheek methinks


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## metaljim (Apr 22, 2009)

highdelll said:


> Can the OP fix the title of the thread? The "there" has been buggin the crap outta me :madman:


"Gotin" and "dos" are actually bothering me more. Who comes up with that?


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## julioardz (May 29, 2008)

metaljim said:


> This has been around far longer than the fakenger kids.


True, but is possible that lawmakers may have actually had some insight of a future to come?

I'm sure it was an understood tongue in cheek, but thanks for "fakenger". That's a new one for me. Had to look it up.


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## Douger-1 (Jan 7, 2010)

ChevyM14 said:


> I dont know if its a law in the U.S. but I seem to remember every bike I have ever gotin has had reflectors on it when I took it home from the LBS. I see that just about ever bike on here dos not have any reflectors. why dos every one talk them off? I have been out a few times where it has gotin dark and I had wished that my hole bike was covered in reflectors. dos it add the much wait or do people think it just look stupid?


Becuss they due add to much wait two the bike and there knot two functional ether. Do ewe want you're hole bike covered in reflectors after it has gotin dark so you can sea urself or too bee scene buy others?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

metaljim said:


> "Gotin" and "dos" are actually bothering me more. Who comes up with that?


and 'hole bike'?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Douger-1 said:


> Becuss they due add to much wait two the bike and there knot two functional ether. Do ewe want you're hole bike covered in reflectors after it has gotin dark so you can sea urself or too bee scene buy others?


I see nothing wrong with this factual and grammatically correct statement :thumbsup:


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Douger-1 said:


> Becuss they due add to much wait two the bike and there knot two functional ether. Do ewe want you're hole bike covered in reflectors after it has gotin dark so you can sea urself or too bee scene buy others?


You almost have to read that slowly and twice just to make sense of it. Hard on the brain.


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

Wow, the number of posts on the lowly reflector in this thread already has given it more respect in death then it ever had in its short life on our new rides between the LBS and and the trailhead. R.I.P. wallies, we hardly knew ye rft:


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Mine came off because they look like crap and serve no purpose when i run lights. I have a box full of them ready for Armageddon when I will sew them into armour so they can be used to reflect the invaders death rays.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

brad72 said:


> Mine came off because they look like crap and serve no purpose when i run lights. I have a box full of them ready for Armageddon when I will sew them into armour so they can be used to reflect the invaders death rays.


Reflectors look AWESOME when ya have a spot on them and then blast them with some dove-load


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Douger-1 said:


> Becuss they due add to much wait two the bike and there knot two functional ether. Do ewe want you're hole bike covered in reflectors after it has gotin dark so you can sea urself or too bee scene buy others?


This works if you say it like Forrest Gump .


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Life's like a box of revo spokes


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

highdelll said:


> Reflectors look AWESOME when ya have a spot on them and then blast them with some dove-load


have to remember not to ride past your house in the dark if your out spot lighting. Could feel a bit of a sting


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

Reflective tape is available in different colors, for those who want to reflect, but don't want to seem dorky. Won't break off, doesn't weigh much, no aero disadvantage, and, done right, could look really good.


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## wg (Dec 20, 2003)

davidbeinct said:


> I didn't take my reflectors off, I built my bike without reflectors.
> David B.


Ditto on the last 3 bikes. My kid's bikes still got 'em.



froggy97 said:


> .......Most people don't know this. But removing the reflectors from your bike can save anywhere from an ounce to 25 pounds!!! Though most people save under a 1/4 pound.


:eekster: wtf is in those relflectors! (maybe some decimal point issues?) :lol:


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

The value of reflectors for bikes used for commuting is pretty obvious. Blinkers need to be turned on, don't work well in daylight and can run out of batteries.

On the trail, its good for when you need to be found when injured or being rescued, specially at night. But instead of using the fugly ones that come with bikes, try 3M reflective tape. I use them on my kayaks, and yes there are no cars on the water either, and they can be seen for 100+ yards when shined on with a flash light. They weigh close to nothing, and make cool graphics with a little creativity.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

brad72 said:


> have to remember not to ride past your house in the dark if your out spot lighting. Could feel a bit of a sting


meh, don't worry, I'll recognize ya by your avatar!


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

bing! said:


> The value of reflectors for bikes used for commuting is pretty obvious. Blinkers need to be turned on, don't work well in daylight and can run out of batteries.
> 
> On the trail, its good for when you need to be found when injured or being rescued, specially at night. But instead of using the fugly ones that come with bikes, try 3M reflective tape. I use them on my kayaks, and yes there are no cars on the water either, and they can be seen for 100+ yards when shined on with a flash light. They weigh close to nothing, and make cool graphics with a little creativity.


+1

I do have the pretty 3m tape on my helmet and down the rear of my seat stay. If cut to shape it looks pretty good both in the day and night.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

Douger-1 said:


> Becuss they due add to much wait two the bike and there knot two functional ether. Do ewe want you're hole bike covered in reflectors after it has gotin dark so you can sea urself or too bee scene buy others?


Eye am one derring if thee OP was takin d piss becoz its rilly hard two make sew meni spelling erors in won post.


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## AlexDeLarge (Oct 5, 2009)

Anything that makes us more noticeable to someone in a vehicle who isn't paying attention is fine with me.


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## metaljim (Apr 22, 2009)

D.F.L. said:


> Reflective tape is available in different colors, for those who want to reflect, but don't want to seem dorky. .


Does not compute.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

AlexDeLarge said:


> Anything that makes us more noticeable to someone in a vehicle who isn't paying attention is fine with me.


thets y peeple shud ryde nekkid.


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## tjkm (Jun 9, 2007)

My Stumpy came with them just on the wheels when I got it last year. LBS took them off as I requested but told me "by law" they should send the bike out the door with them and I am supposed to take them off.

I have a red blinky on the road bike and some reflective tape on the heel of my shoes. I ride with my petzel headlamp on the flash mode until it is light enough to turn it off and put in my jersey pocket.


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