# Moto whip help



## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

I'm wanting to learn to moto whip and understand the mechanics of the move but was wondering how much air I need to pull one off. The jumps at the local trail where i'm heading today are about 2.5 ft tall with 8ft gaps. Is that too small a jump to learn on or do I need more air time to pull off the trick.


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

8ft gap with only a 2.5' tall jump is kinda small IMO.


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

What are the mechanics?


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## Truckee Trash (Sep 18, 2007)

one way to find out. . .


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

You need bigger jumps


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## mr.niles (Feb 5, 2007)

anyone gonna actually post how they do it? i seen good jumpers do it on jumps that size, but they're quick.


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## mattyboi (Oct 25, 2010)

u cant really describe how to do it u jus have to do it


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## doesyourchainhanglow (Sep 27, 2010)

mattyboi said:


> u cant really describe how to do it u jus have to do it


thats really good advice:thumbsup:


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## doesyourchainhanglow (Sep 27, 2010)

any ways you kinda just have to flick the bike with your ass lol. then just flick it back the same way.


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## NS-NV (Aug 15, 2006)

Size of the jump does not matter when you are starting out. I would stay away from gaps as you are going to be landing sideways for a bit. 

Start by rolling along on flat ground and doing a 'kick out' with your back wheel. Don't worry about where your wheel lands, this is just to get used to moving your rear in the right direction. Swing your butt out for help.

Work you way up to doing this on jumps. Still don't worry about landing straight.

Now start working on the front end... Practice turning your bars in the opposite direction of your 'kick out' (If your rear is going to the left, turn your bars right). Work on landing with your bars back in the right position.

Putting it together... Jump, turn bars, kick-out, turn bars back, bring rear back. When you turn your bars back, your rear should naturally return.

Start small, bunny hopping into a mini whip just to get the feel is a great way to start.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Good tips from NS-NV. One more: In the beginning, don't try to be going sideways off the jump, you'll just end up off balance and probably falling to one side. It's tempting to start setting up the whip too early (i.e. before you take off), by leaning to one side...not a good recipe...
Instead, look straight ahead to the landing spot at take-off, keep your shoulders square to the target, then once you are airborn you can start kicking out the rear, and bringing it back again for landing. The first few times, just do a straight jump, and push the rear out on on side a little bit with the pedals in the air, just to get the feel for it. Then start working in the handlebars as per NS-NV's advice, and generally pushing the whip out more and more.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Is there a best way to go with the back end? ie if right foot is back then kick to left or to right, or is it more about feel?


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## genemk (Sep 15, 2009)

I ride left foot forward and it's easier to whip left for me for some reason. Not sure if this is common or not.

Another bit of advice that helped me is to try and pull the stem in towards the outer hip as you're turning the handlebar. This will turn the front of the bike sideways and as a result also push the back wheel sideways more. It also helps to set the bike down front wheel first or at least with good weight on it (good technique anyway) since then the back wheel will slide back into place easier without tripping you up. 

Good luck.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

hitechredneck said:


> Is there a best way to go with the back end? ie if right foot is back then kick to left or to right, or is it more about feel?


I find it more natural to whip to the left, riding left foot forward. Feels easier to start the whip with the right foot, gives more leverage. But I pretty much suck equally on both sides...


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

Well, sadly I headed to the trails before all these great tips came in but I feel I did have some small success.

To start, I'm 47 and fairly new to throwing myself off jumps (maybe 3-4 months). I'm tired of being so stiff so I decided to try and add some style.

My whip attempts would be classified as micro (or maybe nano) whips but the seed is planted and it will just grow from here.

I need to man up and turn my bars more. Felt like I was turning them more than I was but the video does not lie. Heading back out later today for some more attempts.

I will say this, whatever I have going on is much more fun than just going straight off the jump like I have been doing up 'til now. I feel much looser in the air.

Anymore tips (other than "sell your bike") greatly appreciated. 

And of course, video or it didn't happen (give you guys a Sunday morning chuckle)....


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## joelalamo45 (Aug 3, 2006)

turn your hips and shoulders more into the whip... also turn your front wheel in the direction you're whipping.


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## DBnoob (Oct 6, 2010)

I wouldn't worry to much on turning the bars with as little of air your getting. Learn the feel of using your hips and legs to push and pull the rear around. Looks like you have a great start and with more practice and air you will be whipping in no time..
Good luck


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

The whole premise of "whipping" is not totally centered around style. Whips are functional actions which allow you to "blow off" energy on the horizontal plane. If you don't do this, and just try to move your ass out to the side like some have said, not only will your whips suck, but you will probably eat sh*t as well. The catch is that you can't "blow off" that energy if you don't understand the dynamics of jumping and just hit jumps without a plan. 

I think you will benefit from learning more about proper jumping technique instead of just "hucking", which it appears you are doing somewhat. You will never be able to throw a real whip if you don't first master proper body position, flight path and technique.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

I find that leaning makes a huge difference. Lean into it. If you want your back end to go to the right, lean to the left. If you want your back end to go left, lean to the right. Turn your bars, lean, and push, and the back end will go out very naturally. The only time not to be 100% focused on where you're landing is when you're in the process of starting the lean on the lip and going into the air. Once you're in the air and pushing the bike into the whip, 100% focus on where you're landing. When you're ready, point the front wheel in the direction you want it to be when you're landing, and let the bike flow into position behind it.


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Don't get in the bad habit of letting yourself start landing sideways. On little ones it's alright, then you keep pushing it. By the time you throw a whip out to your stanchion on a 15' step down and realize you don't know how to get it back, it's OK, cause you're going to KO on the landing and not remember the whole afternoon.


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## mtbames190 (Nov 18, 2005)

alot of hip motion to help with the whip and being on a dh bike with a dualcrown fork helps also. the crown gives you leaverage on the bike. just my 2cents


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

mtbames190 said:


> alot of hip motion to help with the whip and being on a dh bike with a dualcrown fork helps also. the crown gives you leaverage on the bike. just my 2cents


If you're just learning, you're not going to be throwing it out far enough to leverage it back with the fork.


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

dowst said:


> I think you will benefit from learning more about proper jumping technique instead of just "hucking", which it appears you are doing somewhat. You will never be able to throw a real whip if you don't first master proper body position, flight path and technique.


I have the fluid DVD and understand what are talking about it being more than style as they covered all that. 
I play around with being active and passive in the face of the jump and can boost and squash half assed but when I try to do anything other than just make a straight flight arc, like trying to turn my bars, all that goes out the iwmdow and I just sail off the jump. Any tips to get me going in the right direction with that?
Is that just needing to get the basic jumps more dialed into my muscle memory so I don't have to think about it?

Thanks for all the insights from all, good and bad (believe me, I know my attempts aren't ****, but it is a start).

Heading back out in a few to play around some more.


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

You should be able to do it on any size jump honestly, you'll just land crooked on the smaller jumps which isn't bad, it'll help you learn to pull off sketchy landings and make them look good.

When you jump twist your hips. Honestly that's something most people miss out on while trying to explain it, but it's probably the biggest part, at least for me. Twist your hips super hard when you leave the jump, then twist back to bring your a$$ end back. You'll end up going further than you intended a couple of times, but you'll still probably land it if you keep your front end straight and just relax. Relaxing is a huge part of it. 

I think that practicing tables also helps your whip. When ever I table I have to tuck super hard and use my legs to keep the back end straight, it just naturally tries to whip out to the side. This was how I really learned to use my legs to make the rear end do what I want it to do. 

Also, if you think you're too crooked and you're going to wreck, I would just try to ride it out any way. You'd be amazed how sideways you can land and ride away as long as you're on a nice down side and you keep that front end straight. When I first started whipping I wouldn't even really try to bring it back, I would just focus on pulling off the crooked landing and that soon progressed into bringing it back straight because you have to do the same thing with your body as far as balance goes to pull off a crooked landing as you do to bring the rear end back straight.


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

ccspecialized said:


> Don't get in the bad habit of letting yourself start landing sideways. On little ones it's alright, then you keep pushing it. By the time you throw a whip out to your stanchion on a 15' step down and realize you don't know how to get it back, it's OK, cause you're going to KO on the landing and not remember the whole afternoon.


If you don't know how sideways you can land without wrecking then you'll never be able to pull off that huge whip that makes everyone say "Dude that was HUGE!". You should be able to land fairly crooked, that way you can whip out completely sideways and even hold it before bringing it back to your minimum requirement for not wrecking. Many of the time syou think you bring it back straight before landing you're just getting your balance and momentum right anyway. Watch the pros, landing crooked is just part of it.


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## jpculp (Jul 11, 2009)

I have been trying to learn to whip all summer and now im working on getting back around.http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5833181/


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

I was doing some road riding a week ago and went by Thunder Mountain at the foothills of Denver. I was seeing guys coming off of airs almost inverted, then corkscrewing their way back to normal for landing! They crank the bar into the down side 1st then the other direction after tail came up to straighten the bike out. I can't tell if there was brake/throttle being feathered to adjust the attitude of the bike tho. The dist from takeoff to landing was pushing 40ft w/ about 25ft or so between apex and landing. It was VERY cool!


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

William42 said:


> I find that leaning makes a huge difference. Lean into it. If you want your back end to go to the right, lean to the left. If you want your back end to go left, lean to the right. Turn your bars, lean, and push, and the back end will go out very naturally. The only time not to be 100% focused on where you're landing is when you're in the process of starting the lean on the lip and going into the air. Once you're in the air and pushing the bike into the whip, 100% focus on where you're landing. When you're ready, point the front wheel in the direction you want it to be when you're landing, and let the bike flow into position behind it.


Listen to this man.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

mtbames190 said:


> alot of hip motion to help with the whip and being on a dh bike with a dualcrown fork helps also. the crown gives you leaverage on the bike. just my 2cents


Ideally you shouldn't need to crank it back with the stanchions. If you're able to stay dynamic over the bike/in the air your rear end should follow your front end, negating the need to force the rear end back into alignment.


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

*This may or may not help*

I got one or two decent shots of some quality whip technique off a teeny tiny jump, might help you visualize the motion you need to do with your hips off the lip.

http://www.pinkbike.com/v/135487


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

suprised nobody mentioned the gyroscopic effect of the wheels turning.

anybody do that scienceX where you sit in swivel chair and hold wheel while its spinning. try to twist it one way and you spin. blah blah blah. 

and a whip most of the time is not completly linear. they make a circular or figure8 like pathish.

anybody notice this?


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## Loser_guy (Jun 14, 2008)

A tip if you're going to land sideways I learned from moto is to keep your ass where the bike "should be" if you were landing straight. When you land the bike will snap to center and unless you have you weight on that point you'll be thrown off balance which is no bueno.


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## .andreas (Jun 7, 2010)

so far all I've seen was shitty attempts at whips or unsteezy ugly whips. Here is a baked Chase Hawk explaining how to moto whip. Watch it, it'll help.


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## Swell Guy (Jan 20, 2005)

I thought you could land sideways as long as you recenter the front wheel. The bike should follow the front wheel. I've video'ed a number of folks including myself, and though I straighten out the back wheel before landing, most folks that really style it don't and land with the back wheel sideways, but the front straight.

What am I missing here?

FWIW, I wait until my back wheel unweights then I throw the back end out. I turn my bars and kick out with the opposite foot. Also, I twist my hips. Once it goes out I straighten out my bars and pull the bike back in. Though I can do both sides, right is my money side, and the funny thing is there's a wear spot on my left shoe from hitting the left crank kicking the bike out on my strong side.


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

Tail whips and moto whips are totally different. That Chase Hawk video really made sense. I never realized that I need to turn the bars reverse, I've been trying to get there by just tweaking my regular old table (bars forward, rear wheel out to the right just slightly) and it's not even close. Now I have something to work on...


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

didnt read the whole thread but to help your whip along turn your bars like your are steering where you want your rear wheel to go (ie: turn right if you want your wheel to swing right). the turn your bars back. shown really clearly in iggz video.


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

*Not the best at it but here goes*

There are two things, a whip, and a scrub. Whip is for show, scrub is to lower your trajectory and scrub off energy. In these pics its a little of both. On this line if I hit the gap at full speed, I'd overjump the tranny by 20 ft. You can see in the first pic that I am arcing my line up the face, that begins the rear end whipping out and also lowers my trajectory, in the second pic I'm using my legs to steer the bike outwards, third pic the whip/scrub is at its maximum point and then I countersteer to begin to straighten the bike out. In the fourth pic you can see my line down the tranny kind of continues the arc that I started on the face.


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## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

Some good advice so far. Also keep in mind, any time you're tweaking the rear of bike in a direction - you lead with your head/shoulders - head and shoulders initiate the whip, not your hips. as you launch, twist/throw your head/shoulders in the direction you want to whip. then your waist will twist a bit, and then your hips follow. 

as your hips begin to come out sideways, begin to twist your head and shoulders back to a forward position (against the way to your trying to whip). This keeps you on your axis, and also provides a natural rubber band effect that brings your hips back in to line. 

Sort of like this, if you are whipping to the back wheel out to the left:

head/shoulders twist clockwise, then waist twists clockwise, then hips twist clockwise. This gets the bike to begin to move sideways.
At about the time your hips are beginning to twist clockwise, twist your head and shoulders counterclockwise (the opposite direction of your hips), sort of try to look at your back wheel. At this point, you should be at about the apex of your jump. 

Now, look forward to spot your landing with your head - your shoulders will follow, and if you have enough air time, your hips and bike will snap back in line with your landing.. 

yeah, it's a bit confusing, but remember there are two basic actions going on, shoulders twisting, and hips twisting. Sort of like a "lookback" in BMX. Not exactly the same as a whip, but the mechanics are similar. Good luck!


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

Nice video Iggz. I hope to get it to that point one day soon.

William42, thanks, i found I was looking at my bars constantly to see if they were turning. Once I started to look at the landing, things started to get a tiny bit better. I'll be back out there this afternoon for some more work on this.

Anyway, here goes a couple attempts from day 2 of playing with it. I need to turn my bars more still but I think I'm getting them turned more than I was on day 1.


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## .andreas (Jun 7, 2010)

Do I need to emphasize that you NEED to watch that video anymore?


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

^^^^probably the best explanation I have seen for me. Plus lots of good slow motion while still talking you through it.


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## cyrix (Jan 29, 2008)

genemk said:


> I ride left foot forward and it's easier to whip left for me for some reason. Not sure if this is common or not.
> 
> Another bit of advice that helped me is to try and pull the stem in towards the outer hip as you're turning the handlebar. This will turn the front of the bike sideways and as a result also push the back wheel sideways more. It also helps to set the bike down front wheel first or at least with good weight on it (good technique anyway) since then the back wheel will slide back into place easier without tripping you up.
> 
> Good luck.


Whatever foot forward you ride would be easier to whip to that side since your other foot is further back giving you more leverage to move the back end.


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## Monk_Knight (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm not really very good at whips either... but I find that trying them on hip jumps or really anything where you can land facing a slightly different direction then the take off will really help you learn. You don't have to worry about bringing it back, and there's something mental that really helps (me at least) with throwing the back end out.


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## Swell Guy (Jan 20, 2005)

FWIW I think park riding really helps with learning to jump and whips. You get so many jumps in so often on every run, and often those are tables, you really get the feel of the bike. Once you regularly get airborne, you'll start to get the feel of maneuvering the bike while airborne. Like I said before, once you feel that back end starting to unweight, you can start tweaking it. Also, I find it helps to turn the bars in the direction of the whip.

To advance fast doing anything, park riding helps a ton. Get a pass someplace, or spend a week someplace like Whistler.


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

Jason B how's your progress?


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## FA-Q (Jun 10, 2008)

*Wheel maintenance?*

I can't do whips or jump with much style, but there is one important thing I haven't seen mentioned- while learning, you're gonna land sideways a few times, as others have mentioned. It's good to learn to ride it out, even better to learn to straighten it out in the air, but don't forget that you're gonna put extra stress on your wheels! My wheelbuilder hates dealing with people who try to whip and always land sideways - they always trash their rear wheels, and then cry about it as if it was the builder's fault. :nono: Be sure to have your wheels trued more often than usual!


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## Fox787 (Jun 2, 2005)

FA-Q said:


> I can't do whips or jump with much style, but there is one important thing I haven't seen mentioned- while learning, you're gonna land sideways a few times, as others have mentioned. It's good to learn to ride it out, even better to learn to straighten it out in the air, but don't forget that you're gonna put extra stress on your wheels! My wheelbuilder hates dealing with people who try to whip and always land sideways - they always trash their rear wheels, and then cry about it as if it was the builder's fault. :nono: Be sure to have your wheels trued more often than usual!


If you have a downhill or freeride wheel set you shouldnt really worry about it...


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

Chuckie said:


> Jason B how's your progress?


Well, I have been a bit slack as my jump was so small so I have been busy building it larger. 
Got it larger, and then my ride buddy ate it a few times and freaked out on it so I have been busy tabling it in. My buddy has still yet to hit it since the gap has been filled in and I'm ready to make it larger (maybe I'll leave it as is and work on the whip some more). After Fri I have about 2 weeks off (I teach school) so I can spend some time on my whip.

Here's the jump now. Wider, almost 3ft tall and 10ft lip to lip.


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

For me I tail whip with my front wheel higher than my rear, I feel when I'm over my bars or at least front end up I have much more control, just kicking out you back end will usually land your wheel a bit sideways, and I don't want to taco my wheel when you go big. If you ever hit a big floater and your front wheel is higher giving you better control of your bike, it's basically the same concept then just kick your back wheel out, letter you'll be able to take your front foot off and judo kick it. Feeling comfortable in the air and having bike control is the most important thing, if your attempting this and feel awkward, your doing something wrong, everything should feel right or in control. Jumping is always trial and error until it feels right, it's so hard to explain with words but just keep practicing and you feel your comfort zone. Take in mind when learning to jump it takes time to learn tricks and a few good bails. Good luck and be safe


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## T174M (Feb 9, 2008)

eride1 said:


> Feeling comfortable in the air and having bike control is the most important thing, if your attempting this and feel awkward, your doing something wrong, everything should feel right or in control.


Well said *****.


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## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

Jason B. said:


> After Fri I have about 2 weeks off (I teach school)


aww I wish you were one of my teachers...

Anyway the jump looks nice. I have been working on my whips too, and I'd killfor a smooth jump like that to practice on. Over my break ( we get three weeks) I'm finally gunna build that wooden kicker I been talkin about. It's really fun to try to whip on flat, and off curbs. My whip has gotten much better just from that.

Keep progressing Jason. You should make a video of your whip...


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## FA-Q (Jun 10, 2008)

Fox787 said:


> If you have a downhill or freeride wheel set you shouldnt really worry about it...


Your wheelbuilder must hate you... or you're just an idiot who goes thru a lot of wheels. If you're constantly landing sideways, your wheels take a ton of abuse. But don't take my word for it, just abuse your equipment all you want, no $$ outta my pocket...:thumbsup:


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

SamL3227 said:


> suprised nobody mentioned the gyroscopic effect of the wheels turning.
> 
> anybody do that scienceX where you sit in swivel chair and hold wheel while its spinning. try to twist it one way and you spin. blah blah blah.
> 
> ...


Obvouisly your not a jumper as theory does not apply to mtb, only works on moto. A bicycles rear wheel doesn't have enough mass and lack of air time, on a motorcycle you can blip the throttle to bring the back end down and tap the brake to bring the front end down.


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

ccspecialized said:


> Don't get in the bad habit of letting yourself start landing sideways. On little ones it's alright, then you keep pushing it. By the time you throw a whip out to your stanchion on a 15' step down and realize you don't know how to get it back, it's OK, cause you're going to KO on the landing and not remember the whole afternoon.


Oh **** LMAO.


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

try this link and watch the vid, hope it helps. it's the bottom video. 
http://www.thecoastalcrew.com/2010_06_01_archive.html


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## cyrix (Jan 29, 2008)

Seriously, I'm a little creeped out by the fact your username is Jason B. Because my name is Jason, and my last name starts with a B. Doppelgänger!


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## Fox787 (Jun 2, 2005)

FA-Q said:


> Your wheelbuilder must hate you... or you're just an idiot who goes thru a lot of wheels. If you're constantly landing sideways, your wheels take a ton of abuse. But don't take my word for it, just abuse your equipment all you want, no $$ outta my pocket...:thumbsup:


dude i have the stock wheels on my glory 0. I run into just about anything with speed nothing bends or even blips. Besides, if you land sideways to much your just gonna eat it hard core


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## chicohigh5 (Mar 15, 2007)

Chase Hawk Moto-Whipper How-to from joe rich on Vimeo.


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## The111 (May 20, 2012)

Q for those who have whips dialed. Can you do a "late" whip, i.e. completely initiated in the air? Or do you have to begin initiation before leaving the ground completely?

I have more classic tricks like tables and lookdowns dialed on BMX bikes, and you can always throw those very late, i.e. you don't even have to decide you're doing it until after you've launched. Recently I've been getting better at bigger rhythm sections on my dirt jumper, and one thing I've noticed is that the pump motion sort of naturally starts a mini whip sometimes, the bar turn and backend kick is just part of a really good pump (and landing in a tiny kickout actually helps you both to not case and also to get a longer landing pump). And of course a really good pump starts on the ground, so I'm thinking whips actually start before you leave the lip, and thus a "late" whip shouldn't really be possible (and attempting one would end up looking more like a kickout/lookback, i.e. sort of violent and jerky, and less like a whip, i.e. more gradual and smooth). Thoughts?


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