# Diamondback...or..Fuji?



## Smasher! (Aug 28, 2009)

I seem to be stuck more or less. I went to the sports store, and the LBS today. The sports store has the DB Response Comp. The bike shop recommend a Fuji Nevada. The Rock Shox(Tora) on the DB seem to have more clearance then the Fuji(Omni 191 I think they were). I was able to bottom out the Fuji very easily in the short ride up the street I did. I think I am a little heavy for the Fuji. I was just at the Dr. and I am about 250lbs, 5'10. The LBS will cover me free for a year, well, the bike. Where I doubt the sports store will. Maybe a few months. What are your guys thoughts? I want disc brakes, a good front fork, hard tail, and something I can have fun on. I ride very minimal trails, but when I do go riding, it is hilly, and can be quite bumpy at times. And if I do any tricks, like, wheelies, curbs, little stuff I want the bike/forks to hold up. Sorry if this is a lot, but I am stuck. Thanks.

edit: I should mention, I have a budget of 500-600.


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## Whitedog (Apr 11, 2008)

The DB response comp with the RockShox Tora seems like a better bike. You didn't mention which Fuji Nevada, but the 1.0 retails for $630 so based on the DB response comp price, I'm assuming you are looking at the Nevada 1.0.

The Fuji fork (according to the website) is a Suntour brand with 28mm diameter stanchion tubes and 80mm travel
The Rockshox Tora 289 has 32mm diameter stanchion tubes and 120mm travel.

The Fuji is an 24 speed (8 speed rear cassette), the DB is 27 speed (9 speed rear cassette).

The Fuji has Tektro mechanical brakes, the DB has highly regarded Avid BB5 mechanical brakes.

The DB has better brand name crankset and cassette and rims and tires.

I think the Tora fork, with it's thicker stronger tubes, is the single most deciding factor for your weight between these two bikes.

I say DB Response Comp over the Fuji.


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## Smasher! (Aug 28, 2009)

Whitedog said:


> The DB response comp with the RockShox Tora seems like a better bike. You didn't mention which Fuji Nevada, but the 1.0 retails for $630 so based on the DB response comp price, I'm assuming you are looking at the Nevada 1.0.
> 
> The Fuji fork (according to the website) is a Suntour brand with 28mm diameter stanchion tubes and 80mm travel
> The Rockshox Tora 289 has 32mm diameter stanchion tubes and 120mm travel.
> ...


Thanks, the retail price at my LBS was 449 I think. It was red..and I know for a fact, on the forks said Omni 191. I think it said 3.3 on the bike..but I am not sure, so don't use that lol.

I thank you a lot for your opinion. Is it true I can get different coils to put in the Tora's on the Response? Also, I read on DB's site that all their bikes are under warranty for as long as you own them...anyone had experience with that?


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## Brace1 (Jan 12, 2004)

I think you're better off with one of the lower-budget IBEX bikes, rather than one of your two options.


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## Whitedog (Apr 11, 2008)

The Nevada 3.0 retails for $430 and is black and per the website has a Suntour fork with only 50mm travel....and it's specs are worse than the Nevada 1.0. So you may be looking a '08 model or something.

Omni 191 fork is made by RST, which is even lower in the foodchain than Suntour.

Don't even consider the Nevada with that fork.

According to Rockshox's website, 'contact your local Rockshox dealer to order replacement springs'. Page 44 of the attached shows you how to change springs in the Tora 289 (they say you have to remove the fork lower tubes, but it would seem you wouldn't have to do that for just a spring change):
http://www.sram.com/_media/pdf/rockshox/dealers/TM_MY08_E.pdf

If you feel you need heavier springs, the trouble is the 'sports store' that's selling the DB probably can't help you order them and/or install them for you. A regular bike store should be able to do that.


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## Whitedog (Apr 11, 2008)

Brace1 said:


> I think you're better off with one of the lower-budget IBEX bikes, rather than one of your two options.


The Ibex Alpine 550 is sold out, sold for $669 and has a Rockshox Dart3 fork and worse specs than the DB Response Comp.
The Ibex Trophy Comp is sold out, sold for $839 and has a Rockshox Tora and better BB7 brakes
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes-Hub-MTB.html

How are either of those 'better off' than the DB he's looking at and can purchase today at his budgeted amount?


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## Smasher! (Aug 28, 2009)

Wow, thanks Whitedog. This is a huge help. The sports store, is called Sportcheck, and it is just like a Dick's,..just smaller. Alright, well it seems like the DB Response is the way to go then. Unless my budget gets moved up..but it won't anytime soon. I was at the store today, sat on the DP Response Comp they have their, and it seems to fit good. I will obviously try it again before I buy it, to just make sure. How are the DART 1 forks? Are they just as bad as the other Dart's? I'm only considering another bike that I looked at. Same thing as the Response, but cheaper, due to the forks. So I think the Response seems like the best choice, for a beginner in my budget. Thanks again Whitegod, great help.


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## Whitedog (Apr 11, 2008)

Most of the bikes in this price range seem to come with the Dart forks (or a Suntour). The Darts are all 28mm stanchion and most people end up complaining about them no matter if they have the Dart1 or 2 or 3. I would rate the Dart better than the Suntours.

The Tora is the next step up.

Regarding other brands with disc brakes and around this price range:
Giant Yukon is in that price point but has the Dart2 fork and 24 speed
Specialized Rockhopper comp (with discs) is above your range at $770 and has a Dart3 fork and 24 speed
Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc is $550, has a 28mm Suntour fork, 24 speed
Trek 4300 Disk is $639, a Spinner 300 fork, 24 speed
Gary Fisher Advance Disc is $550, SR fork, 24 speed
Gary Fisher Wahoo Disc is $659, Suntour fork, 24 speed
Cannondale F7 is $659, RST Gila fork, 24 speed
Scott Aspect 45 is $769, Suntour fork, 24 speed
Marin Apine Trail is $645, Dart1 fork, 24 speed
Mongoose Tyrax Elite is $569, Suntour fork, 24 speed
Mongoose Tyrax Super is $669, Suntour fork, 24 speed
GT Avalanche 2.0 Disc is $650, Suntour fork, 24 speed
Jamis Durango 1 is $635, RST Gila fork, 24 speed
Haro Flightline Sport is $545, Suntour fork, 24 speed
Haro Flightline Comp is $710, Dart2 fork, 27 speed
KHS Alite 500 is $579, Suntour fork, 24 speed
Kona Fire Mountain is $569, Dart1 fork, 24 speed


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## Smasher! (Aug 28, 2009)

Wow great. That's awesome. My friend showed me the DB originally, so we are both getting it. He rides same as me, like path wise. But he jumps a little bit more. Thanks for the huge list of bikes as well. Great help. I will be sure to post pics of the bike, when I get it.


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## Whitedog (Apr 11, 2008)

Glad to help. I know its daunting out there looking at all the options and having a certain budget and not really knowing all the spec details. When someone asks to compare certain bikes I try to offer advice based on spec comparison. Then there's always the 'you should get this or that' without any details or spec comparison or pricing details offered, which is why I added the info on the other bikes, to speak with 'data' rather than subjective thoughts.

If you had $1000 to spend, that would open up a lot more possibilities, but you don't. The key is to get the bike with the best components that is available and that you can afford. With the Tora fork, 27 speed (with 11-34 rear cassette), Avid BB5's, Sram shifters, Kenda tires, Sun rims, oversize bars, good 6061 aluminum frame, etc the DB clearly looks the best from that list to fit your wants of a solid performing bike that you can have fun on, will last a while, and hopefully keep you hooked on biking and buy a more expensive one a few years down the line.

The most important thing is to make sure you get a bike sized correctly for you. At 5'10" some might say you are inbetween the 20" size L and the 18" size M Response Comp. As we all have different proportion lengths between arms and legs, you should try both sizes if available. You mentioned trying a Response Comp and 'it seems to fit good'. What size was it?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

If you're a newbie, realize that getting decent service will be tough if you buy through the sports store or online. Many LBSes flat out refuse to service certain types of bikes, especially any that come from a department store of any kind. Your sports store isn't going to offer much service or support, either...and you may have to contact DB yourself if you have a warranty issue.

The only sports store I'm aware of that did service/support was Galyan's. They had a real bike shop in the store that did maintenance and repairs. When Dick's bought 'em, they painted over the shop windows and turned the 'shop' area into more storage space.

I'd suggest touring other bike shops to look at bikes in your price range. That Fuji sounds like a crappy deal, even considering the service it comes with.


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## DavidNeiles (May 8, 2008)

Look here is the deal. Go with the DB because it is a much better bike and you'll love it. I work at Dick's and sell them and can say it is a solid relieable bike. As for service you just need to talk to your mechanic and see how good he/she is and just talk to them about parts and what they ride and what they think. Same goes for any LBS you can get some great people or some shity bike snob or just a dumbass. Some of us grew up working in LBS and learned a lot there, like me who now works for Dick's, I am just saying that no matter where you go service can be great or really shitty. The good thing with Dick's which I've seen from other stores is you buy an extended warrranty it will cover all parts and labor and a free tune up per year and unlimited repairs. And free replacement of the bike they not able to fix it; I find it a bit silly, but it is in there! SO that trumps an LBS any day IMO. I have been riding and wrenching for over 10 years and provide my customer with a level of service most come not to expect from a store like for whom I work for.\

As for DB warranty; lifetime on hardtail frames and one year parts for manufacture for defects. Standard with most companies.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Smasher! said:


> I thank you a lot for your opinion. Is it true I can get different coils to put in the Tora's on the Response? Also, I read on DB's site that all their bikes are under warranty for as long as you own them...anyone had experience with that?


Yes actually, but with Diamondback UK rather than US (different range of bikes, technically different company, both owned by Raleigh).

In 2005-6 I managed to snap two xc frames (M-50's) doing things I should(n't) have been doing on them. Both times I got a replacement, second time instead of a direct replacement I ended up with the M-40, which was much stonger (still have it). He won't admit to it but my LBS's boss must have made a request.

Warranty is lifetime for the first owner on the frame.

Yes you can get different weight springs for the Tora. If it's a U-turn model there's another upgrade I suggest, change the plastic travel adjuster for the alloy one from the more expensive forks. It's about $20 but worth it because it won't disitegrate the second you fall off.


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## Smasher! (Aug 28, 2009)

@Whitedog: It is greatly appreciated. I can say..I am not sure on what size it was. But the seat was about half way up, and I touched fine. So I would tend to think, it was a M..but again, I am not sure. I will double check on that. Thanks for pointing out all the specs and such of other bikes, giving me the open side of it all. It really does help. And I think I really am getting the best for my buck, currently. And oh yeah, I can't wait till I get a good bike. Where I can go to my LBS with a few grand, and say look, I need a bike. Lol.

@NateHawk: I do realize that, but do not have an issue with it. I have taken my bike currently(Carrera Tahoe..) to my one LBS many many times, and they fixed it each time. To last. So as long as they stay in business(which they will) I am golden to get my bike fixed there. The sport store I am buying it from, has a bike repair shop in it. They seem decent, even though it is small. So I would have to check them out first, to see weather or not to bring it to my LBS or not. We are also able to fix quite a lot of things on our own, so we will see.

@David: Thanks for the back up! I have been to Dick's a few times, even though I need to go across the border, when I am in the US, I try to find a Dick's. So thanks for letting me know.

@Fix: Great. That is awesome to know that. I hope I never come across that, as I am not doing anything major right now. And at some point, plan on upgrading to a nice set of Fox forks..haha.

Thanks again, for all the help. If I think of anything else I need to know..oh wait, is there a certain way to adjust disc brakes? Because I want mine to be pretty touchy, and I am not sure if these ones are, set up the way I want them. Is it kind of like V-Brakes, where you adjust the cable slack? I want them so I can do some tricks, and have the back up of the brakes if I need them. Understand?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

So you know, Dick's is not the wonderful company DavidNieles makes it out to be. I worked for Galyan's when it got bought by Dick's...and Dick's wouldn't fire me...but I was too knowledgeable for them (and the cheap crap they sell), so they cut me down to 8hrs per week and forced me to find another job. I was working an LBS when Dick's came out with their original extended service plan which covered ALL replacement parts and service no matter what you did to the bike. We joked about it, that they'd run themselves out of business because they had just encouraged people do ride their bikes beyond their intended purposes. I see they've seriously cut their service plan. At an LBS, you don't have to pay extra to get that first servicing, and if you treat your bike right, you should not need to have it in the shop every year afterward to have it serviced. Shady work by Dick's. 

As you see, I have a VERY negative opinion of that company. I have my reasons...Dick's is essentially the Wal-Mart of sporting goods. Sell as much cheap **** as possible at really high margins. Don't even give the customer a high end choice because we don't make as much money on that stuff.


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## Smasher! (Aug 28, 2009)

Yeah, I see your point. But I don't deal with Dick's. Only thing I ever bought from them was some plastic BB's for my airsoft guns. I just like going to the store. This is just like my other hobby. I don't buy anything for my other hobby, that isn't from the LHS(local hobby shop, I race and bash RC). Some companys are just starting to sell stuff in like Toys R Us..I don't dare buy from there, because its the crap stuff. I have been in RC to know what is what, just like in bikes, I will learn what is what.


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## DavidNeiles (May 8, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> So you know, Dick's is not the wonderful company DavidNieles makes it out to be. I worked for Galyan's when it got bought by Dick's...and Dick's wouldn't fire me...but I was too knowledgeable for them (and the cheap crap they sell), so they cut me down to 8hrs per week and forced me to find another job. I was working an LBS when Dick's came out with their original extended service plan which covered ALL replacement parts and service no matter what you did to the bike. We joked about it, that they'd run themselves out of business because they had just encouraged people do ride their bikes beyond their intended purposes. I see they've seriously cut their service plan. At an LBS, you don't have to pay extra to get that first servicing, and if you treat your bike right, you should not need to have it in the shop every year afterward to have it serviced. Shady work by Dick's.
> 
> As you see, I have a VERY negative opinion of that company. I have my reasons...Dick's is essentially the Wal-Mart of sporting goods. Sell as much cheap **** as possible at really high margins. Don't even give the customer a high end choice because we don't make as much money on that stuff.


I understand your negative outlook, but your a little wrong. First the warranty doesn't cover everything no matter what, just extends parts beyond one year man. and labor with service dude. Plus we don't sell **** bikes dude, Just a few that I don't even talk about because they are for a certain type of customer. I stock the whole line of DB with all the Missions, Sorties, Overdrives and so on, So not all crap here man!lol I am one of the top 5 stores in the nation and I have many people bring there bikes from LBS to have me service them, Sounds like you just where a duesh bag to them, I have to fight and explain simple $hit to them and it can be frustrating sometimes, But health ins is top for me and pay too; so I am in for the long haul now, I am working on getting my own bike shop started in a few years.
"Shady work by Dick's." Just depends who is working there dude, same goes for some LBS's.
"but I was too knowledgeable for them (and the cheap crap they sell), so they cut me down to 8hrs per week and forced me to find another job." Sounds like your just some ******* dude. Tough titties:smallviolin: 
No where close to a Wally world. YOU get service and a free 30 day tuneup too. 
You just sound like a disgrunteled ex employee who is and was full of yourself!


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## iamtylerdurden (Mar 17, 2009)

Smasher! said:


> How are the DART 1 forks?


Dart 1 is TERRIBLE. Does really nothing at all.



Smasher! said:


> Are they just as bad as the other Dart's?


From what Ive read, Dart 3 is slight improvement over the 1, but if anyone rides much they will quickly outgrow it.

I have the Dart 1 on my HT now (which I am selling). The FS I ordered is coming with a Dart 3. I am going to give it a try, but it will probably be putting it on ebay an slapping on a Tora 318 or higher Tora or maybe a Reba Team.


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## Xizang11 (Feb 3, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> If you're a newbie, realize that getting decent service will be tough if you buy through the sports store or online. Many LBSes flat out refuse to service certain types of bikes, especially any that come from a department store of any kind. Your sports store isn't going to offer much service or support, either...and you may have to contact DB yourself if you have a warranty issue.


Yeah, a lot of shops will turn away a Huffy/murray/pacific/next or whatever. Sadly, a lot of Schiwnns and Mongooses are of a quality that gets turned away these days, too. But if you run into a shop that won't work on a DB, then the place is run by bike snobs of a degree that I wouldn't want to have my money anyway.

GT, Fuji, DB, Ironhorse, Haro, and others get the meat of their sales to real people, not just bike snobs.


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## DavidNeiles (May 8, 2008)

I have not heard of shops turning down service on a POS bike. It is easy money, and usually the customer doesn't want to put $150 into a $80 bike so that is what you could call a turn down. But there is snobery everywhere I guess


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