# '09 SWD prototype 216 DH Bike



## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

So what happened to SWD? With the untimely and sad passing of the original owner Steve W Delay, SWD has landed in the solid hands of one of its riders and welders Hank Matheson.

I stopped by the small fabrication shop in the Sunnyvale/Santa Clara CA on this past Friday to visit Hank and see what was going down at the shop and with SWD.

I came by on a perfect day. Hank had just picked up the prototype 216 frame from the painter and was happy to show things off.

I don't have all the stats for the new frame, but here is what I know. 
- 8" of travel. 
- The pivot has been moved closer to the bb for a more neutral body position. (Hank's goal is to make the rider move a little a possible to get the bike to go where it should.
- New pivot tightening design.
- New square downtube to reduce flex
- New rear triangle design to reduce flex.
- New shock positioning and mounting. For better small bump compliance in the shock stroke and reduce flex
- 3" shock stroke for 8" of travel

The bikes will be made in production sets of 10 in the US, still made of cromo tubing. Frame with shock is ~11lbs but with wise component choice the bike can be built up for sub 40lbs, even if just nearly. Ideally the frame should last 4 to 5 seasons and it designed for medium and large guys.

Hank wants to stick with Steve's original vibe of a damn good bike for a damn good price. Especially made in the US. So the bikes are going to be priced somewhere around ~$1800 I believe. Hank is willing to make custom frames as well for some extra cash and those will be released under the Bicycle Fabrication name.

At this time, the best way to get a hold of SWD/Hank is call him. PM me if you are interested in his number.


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

*There is also*

.... a 7" race only bike in the works.

So far it is just a front triangle with an ECC bb. Kind of an interesting design. It wont be shipping with that unless, maybe, you request it, and pay for it. But could be interesting, think about adjusting your bb height to match a course or a bit of forward or rear bb adjustment for body positioning w/o having to adjust your geo like you have to now on any other bike.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

Wow last time I saw Hank he was passed out on my back lawn in Truckee.


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

dhtahoe said:


> Wow last time I saw Hank he was passed out on my back lawn in Truckee.


You've got a back lawn in Truckee? Can I crash there and pass out there this summer so I can just stay up there and ride N* and the other goodies all year long!


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

One of the locals rips on his SWD... Very cool to see the legacy continue.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

atomicAdam said:


> You've got a back lawn in Truckee? Can I crash there and pass out there this summer so I can just stay up there and ride N* and the other goodies all year long!


Yeah we had one of the old Victorians in old town Truckee. We live in Reno now. Yep more than a few up and coming DH riders camped out there for almost entire summer on the sofa. Hank just never made it that far.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

not to piss on the memory of Steve, but as a previous owner of an SWD 216DH, these bikes are crap and their customer service s*cks BIG TIME!


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

RED5 said:


> not to piss on the memory of Steve, but as a previous owner of an SWD 216DH, these bikes are crap and their customer service s*cks BIG TIME!


oach, pretty harsh claims.

well, as you can plainly see, the prototype is fairly different, so, maybe you can look past the old and into the new.


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## xterrain (May 6, 2008)

RED5 said:


> not to piss on the memory of Steve, but as a previous owner of an SWD 216DH, these bikes are crap and their customer service s*cks BIG TIME!


Thats like settlers landing at Plymouth Rock and saying the whole entire North America is cold, wet, and full of mosquitos. Move on and shut up in the mean time.:thumbsup:


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

ok. very cool USA made, im not aware of past ownership but whatever.

pro:
very large single pivot- anyone know what kinda bearings/size they are?
made in US
very clean design.

con:
very clean(simple) tubing/cutting/welding. not talking smack bout quality but there would be quite abit of extra metal not needed. but thats what you get when they are handbuilt USA frames made in small quantites.

i just dont see anything "special" deisign-wise at least to make want one.

but thats just me.


oh, i think it needs some type of "swinglink" on the top like foes bikes. would help make it loads stiffer, or a link actuated SP from the toptube so that IS the "swinglink" like the foes fly, i think. but yeah, that would make it better, but less simple.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

atomicAdam said:


> oach, pretty harsh claims.
> 
> well, as you can plainly see, the prototype is fairly different, so, maybe you can look past the old and into the new.


yeah the design is somewhat different, but sadly all those gimmicky little features don't make up for the fact that the bikes are still heavy, made of basic crap steel tubing, built by hacks lacking any true skills (5 yr olds in asia weld better) and customer service that still blows.

Until someone or some company with some actual business skills takes over the SWD program and it stops being run by a group of guys with more heart & desire than skills or business smarts, the old and new aren't really all that different. Sorry but truth be told, Steves memory would be better served if SWD was just that, a memory.


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

Some of those welds look questionable....


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

motormonkeyr6 said:


> Some of those welds look questionable....


Agreed. Looking at the heat affected areas is a fair sign of lack of consistency and you can see start and stop points in areas where I can see a reason for it.

I am not saying I could do better but I am not welding for a living either. I have been trained and know what to look for just don't have the need or time to practice.

As far as asthetics go, the square tubing ruins it for me...


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

With all due respect, just looks like an uglier Orange 224 / Patriot, and at that weight, a damn slight heavier. Whats the reason to buy?

Thinking about it actually, it looks almost exactly like a frame my friend Dave made at UNI for a project, which was based on the Patriot geometry / frame design - It looks like a school project bike!!

I think they're gonna have to step it up i'm afraid. Good luck though, always good to see more fish in the sea.


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

hahaha. the bansee legend is a school(final)project for an ME major i believe. but what im trying to say is it seems that you need something "special" bout what your selling nowdays. that simple approch would be much more suited to street/urban/trail HT or commuter frame. just make danm sure you get the geo right!


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)




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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

glad to see all the love a forum can provide.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Gulp. I have a custom Six-gun burly trail bike frame in the works (half paid for and was in the works to be built before Steve passed away) that may actually see light at the end of the tunnel. 

The pics here are not making me feel good about things/second thoughts about wanting the bike. My Spec Pitch is working just fine for me...


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

atomicAdam said:


> glad to see all the love a forum can provide.


Oh pleez get over it.

What did you expect, you post pics of some [email protected] bike frames and because they were once made (albeit poorly) by a super cool guy, you expect everyone to piss all over themselves like you just showed us the secret to everlasting life. Whatever.


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## Prettym1k3 (Oct 11, 2005)

Always loved the simplicity and build quality of the SWD bikes. I saw a lot of them at Northstar the last two seasons.

Keep up the great work!


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

RED5 said:


> Oh pleez get over it.
> 
> What did you expect, you post pics of some [email protected] bike frames and because they were once made (albeit poorly) by a super cool guy, you expect everyone to piss all over themselves like you just showed us the secret to everlasting life. Whatever.


No, didn't expect that all. Criticism is good. I just didn't expect you to be such a flaming jerk.


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## Dreyzar (Feb 25, 2004)

Hey everyone,
My name's Andrey, I'm working on this project with Hank. I want to thank you all for your input, its much appreciated. 
I'd just like to clarify a few things in response to Red's comments.



RED5 said:


> yeah the design is somewhat different, but sadly all those gimmicky little features don't make up for the fact that the bikes are still heavy, made of basic crap steel tubing, built by hacks lacking any true skills (5 yr olds in asia weld better) and customer service that still blows.
> 
> Until someone or some company with some actual business skills takes over the SWD program and it stops being run by a group of guys with more heart & desire than skills or business smarts, the old and new aren't really all that different. Sorry but truth be told, Steves memory would be better served if SWD was just that, a memory.


I regret that you had an unpleasant experience with the former SWD. We are aware that the business practices, customer service and quality control left something to be desired. SWD as it stands today is essentially a new company, we had nothing to do with the fabrication or business end of the company under Steve. We were longtime friends and racers of his bikes. Unfortunate circumstances have led us to try to piece his company back together because we genuinely love his bikes and want to see them have another chance. 
We are more or less starting from scratch, and again this is a one-off prototype. Its purpose is to test the concepts of the new geometry and tubeset we're using. You can expect several degrees of refinement in the production version, and continuous refinement as time goes on  
I'd really like to know more about what was wrong with your bike, pm me if you want to talk about it.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

Dreyzar said:


> Hey everyone,
> My name's Andrey, I'm working on this project with Hank. I want to thank you all for your input, its much appreciated.
> I'd just like to clarify a few things in response to Red's comments.
> 
> ...


Well then I wish you the best of luck, you definitely have an uphill battle ahead of you given the past experiences & product standards. Going forward I will refrain from sharing any further opinions on the current practices of SWD until I've had the pleasure you check out one of your new rigs.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

atomicAdam said:


> No, didn't expect that all. Criticism is good. I just didn't expect you to be such a flaming jerk.


Apparently you've never had the pleasure to witness the beauty that is me.  I'll concede to being a jerk at times, but flaming is going to far. Eccentric jerk would be better suited. :thumbsup:


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## joeytildeath (Feb 24, 2009)

RED5 said:


> yeah the design is somewhat different, but sadly all those gimmicky little features don't make up for the fact that the bikes are still heavy, made of basic crap steel tubing, built by hacks lacking any true skills (5 yr olds in asia weld better) and customer service that still blows.
> 
> Until someone or some company with some actual business skills takes over the SWD program and it stops being run by a group of guys with more heart & desire than skills or business smarts, the old and new aren't really all that different. Sorry but truth be told, Steves memory would be better served if SWD was just that, a memory.


RED5...

Let me enlighten you on something called "tact". You lack it. Completely. It's one thing to say "I used to own an SWD 216 and had run into some quality control and customer service issues, but with new owners and designs hopefully they sorted it out." It's another thing to say "made of basic crap steel tubing, built by hacks lacking any true skills (5 yr olds in asia weld better) and customer service that still blows" AND "Sorry but truth be told, Steves memory would be better served if SWD was just that, a memory."

The tubing used is U.S.-made 4130 chromoly. It's not even close to what you'd refer to as "crap". And with the first post stating that it's a completely new group of people running this thing, your douchey comment regarding "built by hacks and customer service that still blows" is quite worthless. You don't even know these guys. You haven't even talked to them to gauge their customer service. And you haven't even ridden, let alone seen, one of these bikes in person.

On top of that, you decide to post this only one day away from the anniversary of Steve's passing.

Basically, you suck 100% at life. You've shown me that you're wholly incapable of bringing anything of worth to this planet. You lack any sense of compassion or class, and your inability to conduct yourself on this forum with any semblance of professionalism (or even adult behavior) tells me I'm correct. You seem to pride yourself on the fact that you're obnoxious.

I hope you understand what I'm saying to you. I truly do. If you need any further clarification, I would be more than happy to discuss this further in person. Steve was a good friend of mine, and I would relish the opportunity to bring you up to speed on just how little you truly bring to the table.

I can be in Santa Cruz at the UCSC trails in a matter of about 40 minutes. I'm more than happy to carry on this conversation in person and in private. All I need is a head's up.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

can't wait for SMT to let us all know that it's a single pivot


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

saturnine said:


> can't wait for SMT to let us all know that it's a single pivot


i've been waiting for that too....where did SMT go?

"oh hey, its a single pivot" - SMT (in a good mood)


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

i actually like the square tubing, but overall aesthetics do nothing for me.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

RED5 said:


> Apparently you've never had the pleasure to witness the beauty that is me.  I'll concede to being a jerk at times, but flaming is going to far. Eccentric jerk would be better suited. :thumbsup:


You really come across and more of an ass than a jerk.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

joeytildeath said:


> RED5...
> 
> Let me enlighten you on something called "tact". You lack it. Completely. It's one thing to say "I used to own an SWD 216 and had run into some quality control and customer service issues, but with new owners and designs hopefully they sorted it out." It's another thing to say "made of basic crap steel tubing, built by hacks lacking any true skills (5 yr olds in asia weld better) and customer service that still blows" AND "Sorry but truth be told, Steves memory would be better served if SWD was just that, a memory."
> 
> ...


Nice 1st post :thumbsup:


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Not to moderate you, judge you or impede the love you surely had for the person known to the world as Steve, also not to defend anyone here either...yet, after reading the whole thread ^almost^, (thought I would see some narly designs) I came to your post and it was more than a little disturbing. Whats more is that the current Mod ignors it completely...! But dont you think that making veiled threats to a complete stranger on the internet is somewhat...erm, alarming...?

I just think you could have responded in a way that does not imply **Cue Rocky 6 [or what ever the new one is now] music** kicking the absolute "Limp Biscuits" out of some cheeky tactless nameless chap, who has a right to express his views, albiet really directly and lacking any perception as to what others on here might be going through.

Sorry man...just thought you should know, yeah!?:thumbsup:



joeytildeath said:


> RED5...
> 
> Let me enlighten you on something called "tact". You lack it. Completely. It's one thing to say "I used to own an SWD 216 and had run into some quality control and customer service issues, but with new owners and designs hopefully they sorted it out." It's another thing to say "made of basic crap steel tubing, built by hacks lacking any true skills (5 yr olds in asia weld better) and customer service that still blows" AND "Sorry but truth be told, Steves memory would be better served if SWD was just that, a memory."
> 
> ...


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

i didn't see a threat in there. i saw an invitation for a chat and probably a ride.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

ha ha ha...yeah, too true! What was I thinking...!?


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## patch-rik (Aug 28, 2006)

I owned two SWD's and they were great, really fun bikes. Why buy something heavier then an orange that's otherwise very similar? 
1. Price: These are super affordable, easier on the wallet
2. Steel really does ride noteably smoother then aluminum. I would almost describe it as small bump compliance built into the material.

Though I never met him formally, I know from dealing with him that Steve was an incredibly cool guy. I think his fervor and love for what he did left little room for tons of long term planning, he just got bogged down. Not bad customer service, just too much enthusiasm for one man's product output to keep up. I'm glad this happened, I really hoped SWD would be resurrected. RIP Steve


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## cyrix (Jan 29, 2008)

RED5 said:


> Oh pleez get over it.
> 
> What did you expect, you post pics of some [email protected] bike frames and because they were once made (albeit poorly) by a super cool guy, you expect everyone to piss all over themselves like you just showed us the secret to everlasting life. Whatever.


Constructive criticism douche bag. Learn it. Or you could just continue bawwwing...which wouldn't surprise me. Criticism is a good thing, when it yields useful information. Something which thus far your posts have lacked.

As for the frames...never ridden them, and to be honest they don't strike me as confidence inducing designs. They might be great...but I don't know.


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## pillete (Apr 30, 2006)

I don't know if Marin has a patent on the rear triangle design, but SWD might want to look into this, just in case so the don't get into any troubles.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

pillete said:


> I don't know if Marin has a patent on the rear triangle design, but SWD might want to look into this, just in case so the don't get into any troubles.
> ]


You're joking right?


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## pillete (Apr 30, 2006)

Khemical said:


> You're joking right?


Why would I ? 
We have already seen it several times, the bigger companies trying to take on the smaller companies using design patents
I am pretty sure SWD knows what they are doing but, it never hurts to double check


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

pillete said:


> Why would I ?
> We have already seen it several times, the bigger companies trying to take on the smaller companies using design patents
> I am pretty sure SWD knows what they are doing but, it never hurts to double check


Ha ha, brilliant! I'd like to see Marin try and sue defending there exclusive right to use the geometric shape known as 'the triangle'.

Especially considering, that despite their long history, i'm pretty damn sure that many millions of different cultures the world over have been using this shape since before records began.
Now let me see, better get my Solicitor on the phone see if Marin want to sue the Egyptians, those pyramids were what shape??


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## pillete (Apr 30, 2006)

you are right, but sadly we live on a society that is know to pick a on the smallest detail or resemble and make a law suit out it.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

Last time I checked Marin doesn't even offer a single pivot bike anymore.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

joeytildeath said:


> RED5...
> 
> Let me enlighten you on something called "tact". You lack it. Completely. It's one thing to say "I used to own an SWD 216 and had run into some quality control and customer service issues, but with new owners and designs hopefully they sorted it out." It's another thing to say "made of basic crap steel tubing, built by hacks lacking any true skills (5 yr olds in asia weld better) and customer service that still blows" AND "Sorry but truth be told, Steves memory would be better served if SWD was just that, a memory."
> 
> ...


You have made my week!! You ROXOR dude, keep keepiing on buddy!  :thumbsup:


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

Khemical said:


> You really come across and more of an ass than a jerk.


Yeah I've heard that too, nothing new here. Again you really have to know me to understand.:thumbsup:


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

Khemical said:


> Nice 1st post :thumbsup:


Why don't the 2 of you get a room and you can share your happiness with one another.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

RED5 said:


> You have made my week!! You ROXOR dude, keep keepiing on buddy!  :thumbsup:


Go take your Ritalin kid, there are adults talking here.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

Khemical said:


> Go take your Ritalin kid, there are adults talking here.


Wow you peeps take yourselves WAAAAY too seriously. Lighten up a little OLD man, you'll live longer.


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## fixbikeguy (Aug 28, 2008)

It looks homemade.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

it is homemade


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

joeytildeath said:


> I can be in Santa Cruz at the UCSC trails in a matter of about 40 minutes.


I can get there in 5-6 minutes :thumbsup:

The new SWD's look sick! Stoked to see the company continue, hopefully they can keep their awesome hook-ups for up-coming racers...


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

ilikemybike011 said:


> I can get there in 5-6 minutes :thumbsup:
> 
> The new SWD's look sick! Stoked to see the company continue, hopefully they can keep their awesome hook-ups for up-coming racers...


Well both of you be sure and remember to bring your moms and we'll have a party. :thumbsup:


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## ZUMBI (Oct 2, 2007)

anti hydroforming front!! keep it simple keep it real!!


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Hey...was'nt that what the Republicans were (oooopos sorry, I mean "ARE") great at, you know! They would nit-pick EVERY little nuance to the point of idiocy, which would result in a stalemate after stalemate...!? Hah...if one could put it so simply.



pillete said:


> you are right, but sadly we live on a society that is know to pick a on the smallest detail or resemble and make a law suit out it.


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## 386005 (Mar 23, 2005)

hey RED if these bikes are so bad than why did the winner of the semi-pro national downhill series ride a SWD. seems to me that there weren't any problems there, turns out that that bike has a national title under it, you say anything to refute that one.


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## themarsvolta55 (Dec 23, 2004)

i dig the new frame

i dont dig the harshness some dudes are giving 

yes some of the welds are questionable. i am going to school for welding and its all i really do so i have a couple questions.
what kind of steel are you guys using?
what process of welding is that? is that t.i.g? kinda looks like mig beads to me

i love the steel rig though, i always loved the looks of swd bikes, the crazy 8 was awesome!!

go steel!


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## 386005 (Mar 23, 2005)

Hey RED if these bikes are so bad than why did the winner of the semi-pro national downhill series ride a SWD. seems to me that there weren't any problems there, turns out that that bike has a national title under it, you say anything to refute that one.


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

386005 said:


> you say anything to refute that one.


Rider>Bike.


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## trailripper (Apr 30, 2007)

joeytildeath said:


> RED5...
> 
> Let me enlighten you on something called "tact". You lack it. Completely. It's one thing to say "I used to own an SWD 216 and had run into some quality control and customer service issues, but with new owners and designs hopefully they sorted it out." It's another thing to say "made of basic crap steel tubing, built by hacks lacking any true skills (5 yr olds in asia weld better) and customer service that still blows" AND "Sorry but truth be told, Steves memory would be better served if SWD was just that, a memory."
> 
> ...


UCSC huh? i hope you get a ticket


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

Raptordude said:


> Rider>Bike.


minaar + v10 = champ
minaar + honda = almost

think about that one


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

everyone has off years


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

386005 said:


> Hey RED if these bikes are so bad than why did the winner of the semi-pro national downhill series ride a SWD. seems to me that there weren't any problems there, turns out that that bike has a national title under it, you say anything to refute that one.


Yeah, well if the bikes are so great why isn't Ryan still riding for them??? 

You guys keep squawking about great these bikes used to be, however it doesn't sound like any one of you had one and therefore don't really have a leg to stand on with regard to your opinions, I did and therefore my opinion stands and I'm entitled to it whether you agree or like it so STFU!:thumbsup:


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

themarsvolta55 said:


> i dig the new frame
> 
> i dont dig the harshness some dudes are giving
> 
> ...


Some of the "welds" dont even look like there is any filler. (Like the ones around the pivot) 
It does look like a MIG bead. Which brings up even more questions. Why Mig a $1800 frame? I monkey could Mig that.


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## Captain Snakebite (Aug 17, 2004)

Take off the paint and save 10 lbs!!!


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Mig...I would be surprised!?


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## 386005 (Mar 23, 2005)

RED5 said:


> Yeah, well if the bikes are so great why isn't Ryan still riding for them???
> 
> You guys keep squawking about great these bikes used to be, however it doesn't sound like any one of you had one and therefore don't really have a leg to stand on with regard to your opinions, I did and therefore my opinion stands and I'm entitled to it whether you agree or like it so STFU!:thumbsup:


hey big guy i am sure that there were other factoring reason for the change of bikes, for one its quite possible he was offered financial support, and turns out most people strive in our sport to make a living at it and would ride a tricycle downhill if they were payed to do it.... or do you even race or know anything about a race proven bike vs. your bike. I currently ride a SWD and would gladly show you how proven the SWD brand is. maybe it's time you shut off your computer and start riding your bike. Oh and i know ryan very well, next time you see him why don't you just ask him what he thinks of SWD and how they worked for him instead of sittin at your computer with your pants around your ankles.


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

themarsvolta55 said:


> what kind of steel are you guys using?


U.S.-made 4130 chromoly from higher up post


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## Pslide (Jul 3, 2006)

I for one am happy someone has taken the reigns to keep producing an AFFORDABLE frame for all those out there without a money tree in the back yard. I'm sure they will only improve. DH frame for minimum $...good enough unique selling point for me!


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## trailripper (Apr 30, 2007)

atomicAdam said:


> minaar + v10 = champ
> minaar + honda = almost
> 
> think about that one


Heres a better one.

minaar+honda+F'd up shoulder that pops out during race runs=almost
minaar+v10+surgery to fix F'd shoulder=champ


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

SamL3227 said:


> ok. very cool USA made, im not aware of past ownership but whatever.
> 
> pro:
> very large single pivot- anyone know what kinda bearings/size they are?
> ...


The bearings on the old bike are HUGE. BIG I know they are bigger than what Foes used on the MONos and it uses an RM 80 rear axle! Stiff, steel alters color when welded. it is much easier to weld than aluminum and much stronger. The bikes could be lightened a little I think. Ryan C's weighed like 39LBS about 2 years ago so thats not too bad.


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## joeytildeath (Feb 24, 2009)

Some quick clarification:

1) The frames are TIG welded, not MIG. I can guarantee that.

2) You'll have to talk to Ryan directly about why he isn't on SWD this year, but I imagine a lot has to do with the lack of a fully-supported SWD team this year, due to the events that lead up to this change in ownership.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Tig yes, what I would have thought too...A/C though? Or Neg for a depper penetration...?


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

SJensen said:


> Heres a better one.
> 
> minaar+honda+F'd up shoulder that pops out during race runs=almost
> minaar+v10+surgery to fix F'd shoulder=champ


you forgot that peaty is his teammate this past year as well. really i think that is the ticket there.


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## Hank Matheson (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi my name is Hank Matheson, I'm the new lead fabricator for SWD and I built this bike I would just like to clarify a few things about the welding:



motormonkeyr6 said:


> Some of the "welds" dont even look like there is any filler. (Like the ones around the pivot)
> It does look like a MIG bead. Which brings up even more questions. Why Mig a $1800 frame? I monkey could Mig that.


- The whole bicycle is tig welded using direct current, not AC. AC is mainly used for welding aluminum. I have never heard of using AC on steel, but maybe I'll try for fun. 
-There are a few fillerless welds on the bike, however none of them are near the pivot.
- I am curious as to which welds look questionable and/or like a mig weld. Also, I don't see how a fillerless mig weld is even possible. If you figure it out please tell me how.

Pillete,
I appreciate your concern about the patent infringement. I don't think this will be an issue.

I would like to thank every one for their comments about my work, and I hope to see you all out on the trail.

P.S. Red, I'm really stoked to hear that you think I have heart.

PPS
We threw some temporary parts on the bike for some initial testing. Here it is, 42.5 lbs as pictured:


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

Hank Matheson said:


> - The whole bicycle is tig welded using direct current, not AC. AC is mainly used for welding aluminum. I have never heard of using AC on steel, but maybe I'll try for fun.
> -There are a few fillerless welds on the bike, however none of them are near the pivot.
> - I am curious as to which welds look questionable and/or like a mig weld. Also, I don't see how a fillerless mig weld is even possible. If you figure it out please tell me how.


The two welds around the main pivot (the 1st two pictures posted) are the two that have me sketched out. The rest of the bike looks like quality welds. The powder coat and or angle of the camera might be attributing to the strange look of the two welds.


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## FatMatt (Sep 14, 2005)

F.Y.I. Hank has NEVER had a weld fail. The first prototype of the Gearhead Dirt Jump frame that he built over three years ago has received a ridiculous amount of abuse and continues to be the funnest bike I've ever ridden and that one WAS homemade. With Hanks machine shop and new business model expect to see better and better product under the SWD, Bicycle Fabrications, and Gearhead Bicycles names. Steve chose to use one of the most tried and true suspension designs in history for many reasons and Hank, being the super bike geek that he is chose to continue to use this design for the same reasons after TONS of thought, research, and design. Personally, I'd much rather ride a handbuilt American made frame and support my local economy and friends while I'm at it then send my money to China or Taiwan. If anyone has any doubts about the viability of Hanks frames, keep in mind that he rides at a very high level himself and after riding and destroying mass produced frames now rides only his own. He has the education to make good decisions in the shop, both in design and production. Incidentally, I've had a professional welding inspector who works in the nuclear power industry comment on the high quality of the welds on a bike that was in the shop as well as several professional welders make similar comments. I have also heard negative comments on the weld quality but never from someone that actually works in the field and the 0% failure rate speaks for itself. Support your local scene! Bicycle Fabrications Rules! SWD ROCKS! GO HANK and ANDREY! WOOHOO!


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

I am so glad to see the continuation/rebirth of the SWD frames. Steve is defenitly missed, he was such a great guy.


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## RickyD (Jan 28, 2004)

I wouldn't sweat the complaints about the welds. People always complain about the looks of chrome moly welds. Go back and search for threads on people griping about Doc's (Brooklyn) sloppy welds. 

Seriously, a lot of these guys (I didn't say all, so spare me the cranky retorts) are probably comparing them to aluminum welds and think they're supposed to look the same.

Keep it up. DH needs more affordable, steel frames. Good job.:thumbsup:


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## CaliforniaNicco (Oct 13, 2008)

very nice! *borat accent*


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## davis trouble (Feb 1, 2008)

Do round and square tubing on the front triangle qualify as "aesthetically pleasing"?


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## mtb4life45 (Oct 15, 2006)

soooo how do i get one?


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

mtb4life45 said:


> soooo how do i get one?


PM Hank Matheson - he is the man, he should be able to hook you up.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

i think you guys are heading in the right direction, i seriously believe that high-end steel will be the next evolution in downhill frames. 

however, a couple of critiques:

i'm all good with single pivots. but you just HAVE to drive the shock with a linkage or i'm entirely not interested. as shown, you have no control over shock rates and you just can't match other designs performance.

i don't know what tubing you are using, but again, if its not custom butted supertherm, i'm not interested.

go pick up a blkmrkt mob, or a dobberman, and have a look at the welds and fabrication. this is the production standard you need to gun for. my money isn't going down on a high end steel frame unless its a work of art.

the frame needs to be as light as competitive aluminum frames. i firmly believe that with steel you can have your cake and eat it too. lightweight, high performance and vastly increased durability.

have a close look at the superco dh prototype. obviously your not aiming for this level of engineering sophistication, but IMO, when this thing hits the market it will set a new benchmark for the capabilities of a steel downhill bike.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

as an example. this is the bottom bracket area of my blkmrkt mob. this is what steel fabrication should look like.


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## FatMatt (Sep 14, 2005)

The Mob is cool if you race 4x but if you want a more serious dirt jumper, talk to Hank!










5.1 lbs (frame only) of indestructably awesome fun!


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## 69nites (Aug 20, 2008)

euroford said:


> as an example. this is the bottom bracket area of my blkmrkt mob. this is what steel fabrication should look like.


with the exception of the spot on the Chain guide mount those welds look pretty good. I wonder what kind of non-destructive testing they do for QC.


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

euroford said:


> as an example. this is the bottom bracket area of my blkmrkt mob. this is what steel fabrication should look like.


Exactly!


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## trailripper (Apr 30, 2007)

Hank Matheson said:


> Hi my name is Hank Matheson, I'm the new lead fabricator for SWD and I built this bike I would just like to clarify a few things about the welding:
> 
> - The whole bicycle is tig welded using direct current, not AC. AC is mainly used for welding aluminum. I have never heard of using AC on steel, but maybe I'll try for fun.
> -There are a few fillerless welds on the bike, however none of them are near the pivot.
> ...


what are the geos? looks REALLY steep and high bb


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

euroford said:


> as an example. this is the bottom bracket area of my blkmrkt mob. this is what steel fabrication should look like.


so basically you want steal to look like aluminum, it really shouldn't matter as long as it holds.


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## 69nites (Aug 20, 2008)

atomicAdam said:


> so basically you want steal to look like aluminum, it really shouldn't matter as long as it holds.











this isn't professional. these welds would not pass a cert test. The only real visible fault with the MOB as previously mentioned was where it was overheated on the end of the chainguide tab.

It's not really debatable which of these is welded better the clear choice is the MOB. Will the SWD fail? Probably not. But the welds were obviously not made by a professional welder. I've literally seen better work done on pipe using SMAW in position.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Very very fair comments and I could not agree more here. I think that there are alot of peeps bashing the brand for actual reasons and some just on the trolls side of the fence. Myself, ithink that your overall quality is just not there yet..."especially" if you even expect to compete on a domestic market and you can't just use that "but it's made in America" jive.

I'm no professional welder and I may not know all in that field nevertheless, I do recognize average work when I see it and I think the example above speaks VOLUMES...! And yes, you are heading in the right direction but you need to invest alot more time to individualize your design, think more outside of the box both with how you address the material while thinking about how the material will allow you to push more, your aparent suspension application.

Now I'm not just going to bag your design outright because I know how hat can feel, but you really need a thick face in this industry as your finding out however, take the good with the bad and learn what you can and I do believe that reverse engineering will also show you why certain aspects of STEEL manufacturing are popular or successfull.

I think it is great that you chaps are putting your dreams on the line here but you really really need to take your whole working ethos and radically change it...look at the Nicolai model.

Anyway...I'll leave my comments simple and honest...keep up the good work, modernize your workshop as best as budgets wull allow and really put your whole heart and soul into this with more radical thinking. THEN...I would consider a purchase.

I wish you all the luck and I look forward to a demo at dirt demo day when next I see you there.

Best regard sim.



euroford said:


> i think you guys are heading in the right direction, i seriously believe that high-end steel will be the next evolution in downhill frames.
> 
> however, a couple of critiques:
> 
> ...


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## frootbootr (Mar 1, 2009)

I've literally seen better work done on your wife/mom/milf-in-law with pipe in a shielded bunghole- as opposed to using the traditional stick welding method.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

frame still looks like crap


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## Cabdoctor (Jun 22, 2006)

saturnine said:


> frame still looks like crap


Oh cool, welcome to the bandwagon.

Anyways, how much are you guys offering this frame for? That to can determine the value of the frame. If the welds aren't MOB level but you're asking a "chinese frame" you might be find some customers in the under 18/broke crowd. It will be interesting to see where your company goes. I really hope it works out for you guys!


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

it's listed at $1850


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## Cabdoctor (Jun 22, 2006)

I was hoping they re-evaluated.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

atomicAdam said:


> so basically you want steal to look like aluminum, it really shouldn't matter as long as it holds.


no, what i'm saying is that if you even want to have a wet dream hope of an educated consumer shelling out 1800 bucks for a frame this is the fabrication standard you have to live up too.

if you want to go with the "workhorse" mentality, you better have a bike that looks, rides and weighs comparably to say, a transition blindside.

if you want to bank on the "boutieqe/made in the usa" concept, the fabrication better be worth hanging on the wall as art. because thats the standard consumers expect for that kind of money. its what your competitors are doing.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

also to say, i'm not trying to just slag you guys. i want to see more high quality made in the usa steel framed downhill bikes. i want you guys to get it and make the kind of stuff that we'll faun over. so take it as constructive. i think the market is prime for a high quality, yet simple design, steel tubed dh bike.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

At the begining of this post their are the words Proto-Type no where does it say production. :thumbsup:


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## andrew (Sep 15, 2004)

RED5 said:


> Apparently you've never had the pleasure to witness the beauty that is me.  I'll concede to being a jerk at times, but flaming is going to far. Eccentric jerk would be better suited. :thumbsup:


eccentric : deviating from conventional or accepted usage or conduct esp. in odd or whimsical ways. not you.
crass : having or indicating such grossness of mind as precludes delicacy and discrimination = you


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## andrew (Sep 15, 2004)

you guys should check out the frame builders forum if you haven't, they could give you some wisdom if your'e looking for it. For just starting out I think it looks good, just needs refinement. you'll only get better.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

There is so much competition that these guys need to make a strong case for their bike. I think it could sell well if:
1. They use a more exotic steel like True Temper air hardening alloy. Much more marketable than plain ol' chromo.
2. They use butted tubing and put some engineering hours into removing material. People care about weight these days.
3. They use such a sweet geo that anyone who gets a chance to ride it raves about it on the forums.
4. They offer a floating brake option.
5. A more acute angle at the swingarm shock mount for a more progressive shock rate.
6. They can still keep the price competitive.
7. And yes, they have to clean up the welds for the art buffs around here.
If the fancy tubing makes the frame too pricy they could offer a cheaper version in straight gauge chromo. They are marketing a simple, reasonably priced, great riding DH frame but to sell it needs to be executed perfectly. Here's to hoping they succeed.


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

atomicAdam said:


> so basically you want steal to look like aluminum, it really shouldn't matter as long as it holds.


No, it doesnt have to look like aluminum. But it better not look like a stream of buggers from my 4 year old cousin.


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## Juklano (Oct 2, 2006)

euroford said:


> i think the market is prime for a high quality, yet simple design, steel tubed dh bike.


Most definitely. I'd love a steel if it could party with the blindside.


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## freeridelife (May 9, 2007)

Ok, first post, but man, half the people in here are morons. Hate to say it, but its true.


Ok, so, second off, the welding. Do none of you have any idea of how the prototyping process works? Welding has 0 meaning in a one off first prototype. None. Nada. 0. Its all about design testing... period. Do you want to see some pics of the 1st prototype tomac primer? It was horrible. Now look at the end product, one of the cleanest, best welded frames in existence today bar none. Welds are flawless. I think everyone of you that questioned the welds don't understand this. 

3nd off, the steel. There are many makers are 4130. Since they are in the bay area, I'm guessing they are using some of the ultra pure 4130 that has some through the doors of places like sims metal.

4th off , customer service was excellent for me. Email response was always quick, and every person helping me knew what they were talking about, and did help in a very quick and professional manner... something hard to do for a very small shop.

5th off, until you guys understand the basis for a prototype, you can't say its good or bad. ITS A PROTOTYPE. My god. Did they ever once say thats how the final would look. Coming from a certified mig and tig welder for all metals, I have to say, stuff REALLY changes during the design process. Its called "refinement". Of course welds would be bad on the first, being your not trying to get something super perfect that takes a huge amount of time and labor. instead, your trying to get something to test the simple design of the frame rather than make all the "perfection whores" happy. The pics of the frame look no different that the bmx frames I used to make at the beginning of a new design back when I was in trade school. NO DIFFERENT. After about 5 frames of doing crap knowing the frames would be refined and ultimately scrapped, the finals would come out with machine precision quality welds, and hold up better than most machine welded frames.



In all my point is just shush with the disrespect, shush with the questions about weld integrity... as right now, in their phase of design, thats not what they are looking for. All they want is a frame to test and move on with the projects. Simple. I didn't know this forum had such a lack of common sense until I stumbled on this.


And for the comments from that dude being a douche bag, hes probably a little kid that has no idea of how stuff works... as I know one thing, the 20 SWD frames I saw at the last CHDH were top notch... and so were their riders.

Either use your head, or don't comment. If you can't use your head, maybe you should wear DOT approved helmets from now on... even off a bike.


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## freeridelife (May 9, 2007)

Lelandjt said:


> There is so much competition that these guys need to make a strong case for their bike. I think it could sell well if:
> 1. They use a more exotic steel like True Temper air hardening alloy. Much more marketable than plain ol' chromo.
> 2. They use butted tubing and put some engineering hours into removing material. People care about weight these days.
> 3. They use such a sweet geo that anyone who gets a chance to ride it raves about it on the forums.
> ...


Ok, so, who said anything about plain 4130? True temper is a brand, just like Japanese "sanko" tubing.

Second off, the 4130 they are getting is most likely as good as both, if not better. The local metal wharehouses carry the best stuff in the industry. A few buddies of mine use it for tube chassis of 1.5k+ drag cars, and a few use it for f-1 cars.

Second, you are still bringing up the "they need to clean up the welds" type deal. Did you not read my post. ITS A PROTOTYPE. My god.

3rd butted tubing weakens frames, not strengthens. Butting is used to reduce weight... thats all. The goal here is to make a frame that will last, not need to be replaced every year. If you "care" about weight... why on earth would you buy a steel bike to begin with. Think about it. People by 4130 so they can ride it to hell and back for a decade. If you want weight savings there are plenty of companies making light aluminum ones. You don't see BMW playing with butted tubing either...

4th you can fit a floating brake on ANY dh frame. All you need is the hub adapter. Only a couple frame companies incorporate them in their designs... really because its not needed. Go buy a foes if you want that standard. They are trying to keep the price down... not add 3-400 in parts and the labor it takes to make it fit.

Last off, I was going to say, the downtube reminds me of the old UFO bmx frames from back when. (about the time staats was just starting up...) Ahhh I like the classic square down. Even reminds me of the insane redman bmx frames. Square tubing works... period. Nothing about looks. If you want looks go buy one of those fancy painted color matched chick bikes you see at every race with 90% of the riders. To me, I could care less about looks. I care how it rides. I'm sure the new frames will ride awsome. Only time will tell.


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## Juklano (Oct 2, 2006)

Hank Matheson said:


>


What size is that? I'm really starting to like the frame- a no nonsense single pivot in the likes of a morewood/orange. Definitely interested in the final production frame. btw I'm infatuated with steel.

This should be posted on the trogspace SWD forum.


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## freeridelife (May 9, 2007)

btw if you want a chromoly frame, and have endless cash.].. get a hood .









SWD's are designed to be budget friendly frames.... which is their claim to fame. I sure don't have the money for a hood just layin around. I'd rather get an swd and pimp it out rather that put my house up for collateral for one of the "exotic" 4130 bikes. Racelink included.


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## freeridelife (May 9, 2007)

Just an fyi juklano, when I was talking to them quite some time back, he would make me any size I wanted. Tailored just to me. Don't know if this is what they plan on doing, or just make a "stock" of bikes with specific sizes and geometry.


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## Juklano (Oct 2, 2006)

Oh I know, I've researched SWD a while back and like their niche. I was just wondering since it looks made for a larger fellow. Nothing gets better than custom sizes though and I'm really liking this frame.

Just looking at those close-ups reveals their goal for simplicity. I'm not one for having extra crap on the bike. I like the focus on performance.


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

it needs a SWINGLINK of some sorts. any sorts. so you can control the progression more.

and stiffer.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

freeridelife said:


> Ok, so, who said anything about plain 4130? True temper is a brand, just like Japanese "sanko" tubing. QUOTE]
> I guess you don't know what "air hardening alloy steel" is. True Temper and Reynolds both introduced bicycle tube sets with similar alloys several years ago. It is a stronger alloy than 4130 and makes for thinner, lighter tubing. A few people will buy a steel DH frame regardless of weigh cuz they like the bomber aspect. Many will buy an equally priced frame from a competitor because it is pounds lighter.


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## bikebike69 (Sep 27, 2006)

Well if you want an 185lb downhill tester to see how strong she is I'm up for it. I ride Southridge/Fontana on a regular basis and would love to test the new SWD. I have had LOTS of diff. rigs,most of my DH rigs have been s.p. bikes and I love the ride,even braking of s.p. Give me a shout,I'm in Torrance.


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## bikebike69 (Sep 27, 2006)

Also curious as to why you went away from the Crazy 8 design. Saw a couple at Fontana over the years with no problems. Also they seem to move on pretty good.


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

SamL3227 said:


> it needs a SWINGLINK of some sorts. any sorts. so you can control the progression more.
> 
> and stiffer.


i think it might be progressive enough with shock placement. road it this past sunday and it felt like it had a smooth progressive ramp up at the end and it didn't tend to ride near in the last 3rd of the stroke. i'm not going to argue the race link point, it is just want I felt from riding it.

several times, down several trails. no parking lot test. granted i didn't get to test it at N* per say, you know, baby head central. but from the trails i road it on i was surprisingly happy with the snappy rear end that didn't seem to pack up or ramp up to a sudden spike.


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## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

atomicAdam said:


> minaar + v10 = champ
> minaar + honda = almost
> 
> think about that one


Minnaar + Orange - 2001 World Cup Champion - Single Pivot - Multiple races.
Minnaar + Intense/Haro - 2003 World Champion - linkagey thing - single race.
Minnaar + Honda - 2005 World Cup Chamion - Single Pivot - Multiple races.
Minnaar + Santa Cruz - 2008 World Cup Champion - linkagey thing - Multiple races.

Draw your own conclusions but that's only one rider.

I'm sure somewhere on this site there's someone who would enjoy working out which design has the most DH podiums. Even then it would probably mean nothing.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

freeridelife said:


> 4th off , customer service was excellent for me. Email response was always quick, and every person helping me knew what they were talking about, and did help in a very quick and professional manner... something hard to do for a very small shop.
> 
> In all my point is just shush with the disrespect, shush with the questions about weld integrity... as right now, in their phase of design, thats not what they are looking for. All they want is a frame to test and move on with the projects. Simple. I didn't know this forum had such a lack of common sense until I stumbled on this.
> 
> And for the comments from that dude being a douche bag, hes probably a little kid that has no idea of how stuff works... as I know one thing, the 20 SWD frames I saw at the last CHDH were top notch... and so were their riders.


Douche bag reporting for duty.

Just for the record, my opinions are based off my actual experiences with SWD before the untimely passing of Steve and know where did I say that this would be the case for everyone. Glad to hear you had better experiences. Not sure what your relationship is with SWD, but it seemed to me that anyone that was a team rider or personal friend of Steves had great things to say, however this was not necessarily the case for others who weren't so fortunate.

So argue and whine all you want about my posts the facts remain that what I've said is the truth and tough sh!t if you don't like it. Have a nice day.


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## SirChomps-a-Lot (Nov 18, 2007)

I think the bikes look sick. Keep kicking ass y'all. Needing to buy a new ALU frame every year is foolish. Paying 3.5k for a superco is completely ouside the realm of possibility for me.

I'll be calling you when I work myself out of the vicious cycle of poverty.


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