# Rock Garden



## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Loose end on a project i'm co-lead on. This was a loose end that i'm glad we can tie up. The whole course is all dirt we've groomed buff, so the intention is to have something different, a knuckleball if you will, right in the middle.
The ideal was to get the height of the rock relatively even, so it allows for riders and racers to not be slowed down excessively. But with the shape of the river rock, the variation makes for a nice bumpy cobblestone road effect we were looking for.
Next step will be to dress up the area aesthetically, looking to create a faux dry riverbed by using the extra rock above and below, and replanting with more fern and fauna around the edges. This will also discourage ride-arounds.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

There's a fine line between art and trail art. Looks really nice and I like the discouragement to ridearounds. 

Great work. Would you consider yourself an addict (don't take this personally - I relate to this stuff)?


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## Summit Ridge Guy (Aug 16, 2010)

Skookum definitely sets a standard for building sustainable trail features. I think his rock garden is equivelent to a journeyman brick mason or tile guy!!:thumbsup:


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Thanks for the compliments.

i've mentioned this before but since my trade is construction it really gives me an advantage on the learning curve. Roofing in particular i'm always dealing with managing water, as well as having to pay attention to detail in uniformity.

So most all projects in trail building transfer over. That being said i've done a ton of rock work in the last handful of years, i'm good at it, but man is it hard on the body...

The addict thing would be appropriate, but for not what you initially may suspect. i enjoy what i'm doing in some respects but the motivations transcend building really good trail. As far as big projects i have or will invest time into, there has to be a long-term nurture to the community. Otherwise to me it's just not worth the sacrifice.

i think i'll always be around doing trail work, but to the degree that some projects i've volunteered for, that's something i just see myself enduring currently.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Skookum said:


> Next step will be to dress up the area aesthetically, looking to create a faux dry riverbed by using the extra rock above and below, and replanting with more fern and fauna around the edges. This will also discourage ride-arounds.


Throwing up the final shot of the finished product. The vid doesn't show it. Had a work party and they all took ownership and really made everything snap. Looks like a professional landscape crew came in, but it's all volunteer powered.

So am i
A)Sniffing my finger
B)Playing Fleetwood Mac on my harmonica
C)Making cat calls to mt. bikers passing on nearby trail
D)Eating a pear


Rockygardn by sk00kes, on Flickr


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## Summit Ridge Guy (Aug 16, 2010)

Hey Skookum, that 4th rock from the right in the 3rd row seems to be a bit out of place and the color just seems wrong.....

Nice work like always!! :thumbsup:


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Summit Ridge Guy said:


> Hey Skookum, that 4th rock from the right in the 3rd row seems to be a bit out of place and the color just seems wrong.....


That's because it's a petrified dinosaur turd.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

If you have dinosaurs on the trail, then you are going to have to armour the slopes leading down to the rocks. Those buggers tramp sticky mud everywhere

That is one sweet bit of craft. Great job.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

Nice work and great video! I like the music selection.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Skookum said:


> That's because it's a petrified dinosaur turd.


I spotted that, didn't say anything (too polite, you get embarrassed easily). Then I showed the picture to my lady (also a trail builder) and her 8 year old daughter (working on becoming a trail builder). They both mentioned that rock. You really need to fix that Skookum.

Definitely another candidate for "Is trail building an art form?" 
:thumbsup:


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## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

As a fellow trail builder/designer I go to great lengths to minimize impact to the environment,taking of live trees,plants or other growths etc.but by the nature of what we do it's inevitable that we do alter the environment in the end no matter how careful and well thought out.

I understand that at times foreign materials need to be brought in to help preserve the impact of our use of these trail systems,like bridges and armoring wet areas but to build a rock/cobblestone garden actually a stone paver garden.by your own words "even though it really wasn't that necessary" seams a tad overkill and alot of work too! bringing in foreign materials is just as a don't do as is disturbing natural terrain within reason to open a new trail,unless it totally makes sense and or is practical.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

techfersure said:


> As a fellow trail builder/designer I go to great lengths to minimize impact to the environment,taking of live trees,plants or other growths etc.but by the nature of what we do it's inevitable that we do alter the environment in the end no matter how careful and well thought out.
> 
> I understand that at times foreign materials need to be brought in to help preserve the impact of our use of these trail systems,like bridges and armoring wet areas but to build a rock/cobblestone garden actually a stone paver garden.by your own words "even though it really wasn't that necessary" seams a tad overkill and alot of work too! bringing in foreign materials is just as a don't do as is disturbing natural terrain within reason to open a new trail,unless it totally makes sense and or is practical.


So you suggest the land manager should have created a baseball field here in it's stead, or maybe perhaps this could have been developed into a golf course.

Explain to me how this rock garden is detrimental to the environment, you won't because you can't. This environment which when building we dig out evidence of littered arrows of decades of club archery use, and old logging equipment when the forest was clearcut and razed not even a generation before.

Your criticism is not only unfounded because you lack the scope of the bigger picture. The land has been shifted and moved prior to such a massive scope from logging, but the local land has such the ability to recover it appears pristine. The park resides in small parcel of land bordered by houses on all but one side of the park. When the riders ride through they mostly often don't notice the huge church and houses even in the Fall when the leaves expose the sight path. The illusion intact.

It's beautiful in there where mature hardwoods are aged and dying giving way to growing stands of conifers. A place where new generations will have a fun race trail that will bring them towards developing a practical reasonable approach to stewardship and appreciating the environment.

i've been involved in enough Forest Service work parties within many types of forests that are way more pristine and untouched, bringing in what you call "foreign materials", to understand that you are just full of it.


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

I'd ride it, you pear eating sasquatch

edit* Actually I'll just bunnyhop over it. How do you like them apples?!


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

boostin said:


> I'd ride it, you pear eating sasquatch


Better get to it quick before we have to extract it offsite in order to save the planet from imploding.


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

haha... Why would you put some many rocks in the trail anyways? Seems like all I ever do is roll rocks OUT of the trail.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

boostin said:


> haha... Why would you put some many rocks in the trail anyways? Seems like all I ever do is roll rocks OUT of the trail.


i know huh. You'd have to build here to understand i guess.

Actually i suppose i should reveal the reason. The entire course is entirely buffed loam. Just like a slalom course should be, smooth as a baby's bottom. The idea is to introduce just a tiny section of terrain that is different.

As you know, all trails in the PNW are rocky and rooted. The theme of the entire park was to capture flowy trails, like they have in Bend Oregon. So we capture 99% Bend with a dash of Moab to spice it up.

That's it, and when you ride it, you get it.


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## Metalhack (Aug 13, 2011)

techfersure said:


> As a fellow trail builder/designer I go to great lengths to minimize impact to the environment,taking of live trees,plants or other growths etc.but by the nature of what we do it's inevitable that we do alter the environment in the end no matter how careful and well thought out.
> 
> I understand that at times foreign materials need to be brought in to help preserve the impact of our use of these trail systems,like bridges and armoring wet areas but to build a rock/cobblestone garden actually a stone paver garden.by your own words "even though it really wasn't that necessary" seams a tad overkill and alot of work too! bringing in foreign materials is just as a don't do as is disturbing natural terrain within reason to open a new trail,unless it totally makes sense and or is practical.


Get off your high horse...

How is a bunch of rocks in the woods foreign materials? Its not like he built a Ferris Wheel in the middle of the trail.

Anyways...nice work. I dont really think the feature is much more difficult than the prepped loam though. When we build a feature like that we do an A/B line. The A line is usually quite techy.

Can you come to my house and build my walkway.


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## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

If the rock is local to the area cool,but screenings are not,and if your going to spend the time building a "rock garden" why build a gentrified version of one, it's all but moot to build one that has no real challenge to it.it's your time and I applaud the effort but really all that effort for several seconds of bumpy! but then again maybe you just don't know what a true rock garden should consist of if you don't have natural ones to mimic,and then of course I apologize for riding my high horse!


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

techfersure said:


> If the rock is local to the area cool,but screenings are not,and if your going to spend the time building a "rock garden" why build a gentrified version of one, it's all but moot to build one that has no real challenge to it.it's your time and I applaud the effort but really all that effort for several seconds of bumpy! but then again maybe you just don't know what a true rock garden should consist of if you don't have natural ones to mimic,and then of course I apologize for riding my high horse!


Look, in most scenarios you're correct, and rock gardens are not going to be built just to have a rock garden. For a myriad of reason.

Honestly you are likely to not see this replicated. If you're ever in the neighborhood, look for the trail, after you ride the completed version, you will come around having better understood it.

But then again you probably will be getting passed by riders under the age of 12 that are so much better skilled than you on this gentrified trail.

Oh and the screenings were brought in by the land manager, but i used mostly mineral soil to seat the rock, as is evidenced in the time lapse and the brown stains on the rock. The only reason i added a little gravel to seat is to provide stability from the rain. Wet mineral equals slop, prevents me from having to harvest more later.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*Because he can?*



techfersure said:


> if your going to spend the time building a "rock garden" why build a gentrified version of one,


Why build a jump? Why build a berm? Why build a a trail, a small jump, a large jump, or a skinny.....etc?

Why? Because we can, we want to, and it is awesome.


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## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

techfersure said:


> If the rock is local to the area cool,but screenings are not,and if your going to spend the time building a "rock garden" why build a gentrified version of one, it's all but moot to build one that has no real challenge to it.it's your time and I applaud the effort but really all that effort for several seconds of bumpy! but then again maybe you just don't know what a true rock garden should consist of if you don't have natural ones to mimic,and then of course I apologize for riding my high horse!


Tech,

Before you start bashing this guy just look up his posts and look at what this whole project has entailed. It has required a massive amount of work, not to mention a fair bit of ingenuity to make everything jive.

The simple fact is you're not there to see what the whole situation is, so why try to invalidate his reasoning behind Plan X or Plan Y? By all means we should ask why a person did something, but you are coming across as agressive and egotistical; neither of these traits are useful.

As someone else said, he builds it this way because he can. There are others here (myself included) who have put features into a trail that on a computer screen make no sense at all but are totally awesome once you rip through them on a bike. If you don't think it is built correctly then go outside and dig a trail the proper way (the way you like it) instead of trying to belittle someone's efforts.

Oh yea, when your ranting you should prolly use good grammar and capitalization and stuff. it makes you seem less like a grumpyhead and more like someone that knows what their talking about.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

Please, stop feeding the troll. 

Also, arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard.


While I agree this is barely a beginner feature, it's nicely executed and deserve credits. You don't like? Return to your super-extreme overly-steep über-advanced North Shore (tm) trails and go for a ride, or better yet, show us some nice rock garden you build!

Back on topic. Nice job Skooke. I wish we had a Bend-style trail around here. Everything is rooty/rocky so I understand the need to add some "feature" to a too-flowy trail.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

HypNoTic said:


> While I agree this is barely a beginner feature,


Actually we're slated to get a Blue Intermediate level when it's all said and done.

Kind of a long explanation on how that came to be, but we all believe that we're creating a trail for everyone including beginners. So really we really couldn't care what rating we are given.

But the rating system adopted is interesting in that they split difficulty ratings between XC trails and Freeride trails. XC trails are interpreted as trails where wheels are meant to stay primarily on the ground, and Freeride off the ground... Since the slalom line has no gaps and everything is rollable, like pumptracks in the park we fall under the XC rating.

On the surface it's a head scratcher, but the more i think about it, it makes sense. All that being said, there are riders we know with an amazing skill set, and riders of all ages with little and everywhere inbetween, and they're all really excited about the trail. i've touted this trail to be top shelf, and really that's the primary reason is being able to successfully build a trail that is genuinely fun for riders of all skill sets.

There's been alot of lofty goals with the trail and we've been able to pull them off so far. None of them are easy to obtain.

So i really didn't take the gentrified comment too seriously as what our goals were with this trail. And the shot i took about 12 year olds becoming more skilled, well i'm actually being pretty serious about that, as we're building these parks with trails that enable kids to gain skills in months, what took many of us years to obtain.


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## null11 (Mar 27, 2008)

Thats amazing. Don't let the naysayers get you down.


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## Fletcher-Love (Nov 14, 2009)

I like it too. To me, a trails aesthetic presentation is just as important as its function and you managed to satisfy both here.


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## bballr4567 (Mar 12, 2006)

Very cool looking!! Love it.


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## andysays-semperfi (Oct 14, 2011)

awesome work man coming from a fellow construction worker i can really apreciate the skill that went into that


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

Is that really a "rock garden"? 

To me rock garden brings to mind images of pointy tire cutting wheel traps that need to be ridden through just so to avoid damage and injury. That's more like a cobble stone pavement. Probably scare the wee out of the roadies.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Metamorphic said:


> Is that really a "rock garden"?
> 
> To me rock garden brings to mind images of pointy tire cutting wheel traps that need to be ridden through just so to avoid damage and injury. That's more like a cobble stone pavement. Probably scare the wee out of the roadies.


Yeah well uhm.



Skookum said:


> But with the shape of the river rock, the variation makes for a nice bumpy cobblestone road effect we were looking for.


Since this trail is a race trail, speed is the primary factor in the decision.

The trail is built like a pump track, for best results use 26 inch wheeled hard tail slalom bike. After hauling ass flying off a few pumps/jumps we put in a rock garden with sharp jumbled rocks because it fits the ideal of what some think constitute a rock garden.

Nah...

It's funny but we've been told we're not building a real Dual Slalom trail, because it's too long, and that the features don't mirror each other in sequence, though we go to great lengths to equalize feature and experience out of sequence when we can't make it equal. Plus we have 3 sections of significant climb and we separate the trail 3 times. But you know what, when finished you will be able to run both lines on a bike with no brakes and no chain, and after 1100' we're only 1 second off in time.

So the name of the trail is Deuces Wild Slalom Course. We don't care if we don't fall under some guideline of what should or shouldn't be. We won't profess to be a Dual Slalom course, but people are already calling it that anyways.

My point in bringing this up is that it's just seems so dumb to have qualifications for things. i mean the approach should be just to ignore this part of what the popular thought for this stuff is. When it comes to creativity, if it works and is sustainable, why be limited by following unwritten guidelines.

It's pretty dumb, now the trail is becoming real popular are we to be the new standard? If you like it, feel free to steal what you like, but don't go around saying that this is how things "should" be. Ya know what i mean?

As far as how dialed our flow is, and how spot on our drainage is, well yah there is alot of good standards to emulate, but features and theme, that's where creativity should flourish.

Not trying to argue with you or anyone, just a little reflection on that.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Deuces Wild Slalom sounds like it may have the full house. More than 1 line = competition that cannot exist on singletrack. That track probably has more than 2 lines and that takes MTB to the next level. If your 12 year olds take to building.........


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## mike_d_1583 (Feb 12, 2008)

Metamorphic said:


> Is that really a "rock garden"?
> 
> To me rock garden brings to mind images of pointy tire cutting wheel traps that need to be ridden through just so to avoid damage and injury. That's more like a cobble stone pavement. Probably scare the wee out of the roadies.


I agree with how he did it. On a smooth course like that, you don't want to throw in a loose-rock garden. It totally changes the trail dynamics and difficulty level, and for riders expecting fast and flowy trails, loose rocks might cause inexperienced riders to fall. So yea, it's a rock garden, because it is composed of rocks and not dirt. There are different levels of difficulty and you want it to mesh with the rest of the trail.

Only thing I noticed was how wide the trail is, but you probably can't control that. 
Keep up the great work though, I know how hard it can be to find, move, and position rocks. Not to mention idiots who don't appreciate your efforts to make it more enjoyable and diverse. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## w.white7 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hate to grave dig, but you have to look at the type of people that ride at Duthie. On any given day 80 percent of the people are riding Xc trails and bikes, and the rest will be the freeride crowd. So while most people hear rock garden and think of a worlds track, most of the people riding this trail will probably have no clue about Hart or what the track at fort william looks like. There have been days that I go there and the lots full of cars, but the freeride areas are near empty.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

w.white7 said:


> Hate to grave dig, but you have to look at the type of people that ride at Duthie. On any given day 80 percent of the people are riding Xc trails and bikes, and the rest will be the freeride crowd. So while most people hear rock garden and think of a worlds track, most of the people riding this trail will probably have no clue about Hart or what the track at fort william looks like. There have been days that I go there and the lots full of cars, but the freeride areas are near empty.


Sorry but i have no idea what you're trying to say here.


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## arphaxhad (Apr 17, 2008)

*You need some rocks? Come on down to Nor Cal*









*
I think I see a spot on your garden where this would fit nicely!* :thumbsup:


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## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

sambs827 said:


> Oh yea, when your ranting you should prolly*(probably)* use good grammar and capitalization and stuff. it makes you seem less like a grumpyhead and more like someone that knows what their *(they're)* talking about.


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## BikeParkNooB (Jan 20, 2012)

Beautiful...loooove rockwork!


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## NCMt.Biker (May 5, 2010)

That rock garden looks too easy!! Looks good though...


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## lightjunction (May 17, 2011)

Super smooth. That rock garden looks good enough to use as a patio. How's it holding up?


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

lightjunction said:


> Super smooth. That rock garden looks good enough to use as a patio. How's it holding up?


Tree fell on it a few months back, one rock took the brunt and imbedded about 6 inches or so. Easy fix.

It's settling a bit, so the undulation varies a bit more than before which i expected since i didn't run a firm base.

Looks good as does the rest of the slalom course, i'll post more stuff on the line soon, we live, breathe and eat this project we've been swimming in for a couple years now, so it'll be pretty fun to reveal more of the project to fellow builders.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Just out of interest and not related to this rockwork, but what makes you choose exposed rock armouring over embedded rock armouring with a surface that catches silt and becomes buff? I mean which for where - any rules anyone uses in their planning?


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

For our soils, embedded lets the whole thing silt over and loose grip, even get slick with winter rains (except this @#$%& year). Slightly raised allows the traffic (boots, hooves, tires) to keep the rock surface and part of the gap between exposed, and therefore, available as a traction aid.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Cheers slocaus, I can see that. There are places here that are like that at times near and in creek crossings and lower altitude flats. In general, when a base forms it mostly becomes bullet proof over time, so long as it is not mostly made of porous gravelly soil. We add bits of that to the silt and clay/loam that exists in most places, layer it over rocks harvested and press more and more stones in over time (lots after heavy rains, but some whenever it softens and we are there) until a solid base develops from use. This also seems to divert underground water movement where we fill/armour deeply. 

From then rain and runoff just flows over a grippy surface. Some surface wear can flow and form soft pockets of silt, usually in gentle depressions where organic matter collects and dams it up, but it is easily cleared by shovel, foot, tire or stick (that doesn't stop everyone just riding by oblivious to the help they could provide whilst they try and bugger up the trail for anyone else when it's too wet to ride:skep. 

It doesn't get slick and is resistant to dust when things dry out. This place gets solid rain. We just had 300mm in a week (again - it is a yearly or more common event). The only problem is getting out to all areas when it is really wet and doing the maintenance. Not enough helpers as per.....everywhere.

So we use this approach to armour reverse grades at low points and you use rock to create subtle domes, raised treads and high points. Must be because we are in opposite hemispheres I love trails.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

As per the question, if there is a problem with the final result then you should look to fix the problem. If built up silt is "greasing" up the tread, then you should completely bury it with crushed rock/mineral soil or re-work the rock where it won't have the problem.


As far as rock work, if in your work you "seat" your rocks instead of just piling them in some wet goop and riding over it until it globbed into place. Then if you did that, you should have the skill to wedge the rocks, backfill beneath them with rocks/mineral soil, bump them up a few inches. Perhaps work on choosing better rocks on the bookends and cornerstones that will be heavier and lock everything up, and take the force of the tire impacts, since more surface area will be exposed and ridden on. 

What is not pictured in the video is the day(s) i spent "re-seating" the first section of this rock-garden. If you have exposed rocks or pavers you really should put a layer of sand or gravel down about an inch thick to serve as your base. You will get settling over time which will cause undulation and this will minimize or completely eliminate it. 

Anyways a couple rocks were broken and needed to be replaced, and many of them were not the desired height. So almost every rock needed to be dislodged, and re-seated. So the first section of rock garden was already complete and ridden on for a few seasons, but it needed to be tweaked, improved.

i always advocate for taking the time to properly seat rocks, which basically means give the rock no gap to wobble at all. Takes time, but whether you are building a rock retention wall or a rock garden it can last a lifetime. If you learn how to do rock work well, it's time consuming, but again it's just so durable you can't go wrong for problem areas with it.


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## Downhill mtb kid (Feb 7, 2012)

Is this a new trail?


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Downhill mtb kid said:


> Is this a new trail?


Yes, a 2 year project, here's what the incomplete trail looked like when we wrapped up work for last summer.

Note that both runs i don't pedal or brake.

Deuces Wild Slalom Course Version 1 0 - YouTube

Again, i'll post up some more photos and vids eventually, we're just so busy trying with a deadline with plenty of work left it's a bit tough to do anything but work while i'm out there. But there is an awful lot of goodness to share.


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