# Long (duration), (not-so) low, and (not-so) slack



## MCS5280 (Mar 14, 2008)

Aggressive geometry hardtails are extremely fun to ride but I find the long, low and slack body position is not so kind to my body on longer rides (35+ miles). What are your go-to bikes that sit on the conservative edge of the LLS spectrum but still allow a more comfortable (upright) body position for longer days? Bonus points for steel and sliding dropouts.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm interested in a bike like this as well. I would think that the Chumba Sendero, Esker Japhy, and Santa Cruz Chameleon (though aluminum) would be in that category.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

You can tame a lot of the issues of too aggressive modern geo HTs with a combination of:


High Rise bars
Over-forking
Downsizing frames
Setback dropper
Shorter cranks


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Neuhaus Metalworks Hummingbird


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

vikb said:


> You can tame a lot of the issues of too aggressive modern geo HTs with a combination of:
> 
> 
> High Rise bars
> ...


stems can get very short, and you can put a bendy "alt" handlebar. check out something like the SQLabs 16° sweep aluminum bar. the clamp section is straight and the ends of the bar bend back at 16°, thus shortening the overall "reach" of the bike by quite a bit.

leave the fork long and stack spacers under the stem.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

I just ordered the Neuhaus Hummingbird because I am looking for the same type of bike. Esker Japhy was close, as was the Sendero, but they were slightly too LLS and not quite LLS enough, respectively. Also I couldn't find a Japhy, probably would already be on one if I had managed to do so.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Surly Krampus


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

What about the Stanton Sherpa or maybe even the Cotic Solaris Max? One of the reasons I went Sherpa was close enough to the Bombtrack Beyond+ I had while being slacker & more xc-trail than the Beyond+'s bikepacking specific geo.


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

Vassago Mooseknuckle or Optimus & (ti) or Verhauen which is steel & same geo. I'm on a moose now & put about 500 miles on a Verhauen last year but I wrecked it in a very odd crash. I'm on a 120mm fork -not overly long, BB is a great height for rocky terrain & they're relatively affordable. I'll be doing a 100k race on this in July & rides in the 35 - 40 mile range are very frequent for me. I ride it SS but of course, dropout insert with a derailleur hanger are available.

** before I get comments about Tom not being the best at communicating, I'd like to say that a few months ago, I contacted him about crash replacement for the Verhauen. He replied immediately via email but for some reason, my hotmail account wouldn't receive it. I sent 2 subsequent emails & when I sent the last one, he called, left a voicemail & texted me to let me know he'd replied to all my messages. I gave him my work email & he forwarded me his replies. This Mooseknuckle is my 4th frame (bandersntch, fisticuff, verhauen & moose) from Tom & no doubt it's going to be my favorite **


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

redwarrior said:


> Vassago Mooseknuckle or Optimus & (ti) or Verhauen which is steel & same geo. I'm on a moose now & put about 500 miles on a Verhauen last year but I wrecked it in a very odd crash. I'm on a 120mm fork -not overly long, BB is a great height for rocky terrain & they're relatively affordable. I'll be doing a 100k race on this in July & rides in the 35 - 40 mile range are very frequent for me. I ride it SS but of course, dropout insert with a derailleur hanger are available.


I don't think Vassago has had any steel frames in quite a while, so the Verhauen is probably off limits for a while. Tom was really responsive when I needed help though.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

I do my longer 30+ mile mtb rides on a Niner Sir 9 w/ 27.5 x 2.8 tires. Reynolds 853 steel.

More upright position, frame is very comfortable and trail compliant. It carvers tight and twisty trails well and still feel comfortable at speed. I believe the bike was designed more around bike packing in mind.


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## Sully151 (Dec 31, 2021)

xjbaylor said:


> I just ordered the Neuhaus Hummingbird because I am looking for the same type of bike. Esker Japhy was close, as was the Sendero, but they were slightly too LLS and not quite LLS enough, respectively. Also I couldn't find a Japhy, probably would already be on one if I had managed to do so.


I am looking at the Hummingbird and the Chumba Sendero. I’m a little concerned with the Hummingbird because it’s brand new and the Sendero because it might not be modern enough.

Both seem like awesome bikes.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Sully151 said:


> I am looking at the Hummingbird and the Chumba Sendero. I’m a little concerned with the Hummingbird because it’s brand new and the Sendero because it might not be modern enough.
> 
> Both seem like awesome bikes.


I understand the concern about the Hummingbird, but with the feedback I have seen on other Neuhaus bikes I am not too worried. It appears Nick knows his stuff, and my conversations with him have inspired confidence. I really like the idea of the Sendero, but with my rigid fork my HA would be right at 70º and the geo seemed closer to my 2009 Raleigh XXIX than my Stanton Sherpa.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

I'd be curious to know how the Hummingbird would compare with the Sherpa. Which gen do you have, the 3?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

The Sherpa won't compare the the HB. The HB will be better. The HB is significantly smaller steps in sizing. So just from a fit / feel perspective you will get exactly what you want. Instead of something that is close but needs to be adjusted with something else (too long or too short stem).

If that better is worth it. Is up to you. But by every metric the HB will ride better.

I have a prototype HB and have ridden the "standard" one. It's an amazing bike. Just feels right.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Funoutside said:


> I'd be curious to know how the Hummingbird would compare with the Sherpa. Which gen do you have, the 3?


I am curious as well. I love the Sherpa but could use a little more length. However, stepping up in size on the Sherpa leaves me running a 125ish dropper, and I want to run it SS, so it just isn't a good fit for me. That said, it rides incredibly well, and in that category if the Hummingbird is as good and no better I will be ecstatic.


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