# This is why Spawn 14/16" bikes are the best for kids!



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

These bikes are the best of both worlds. Super light trail bike with awesome tires AND the BMX sort of geometry to support a taller kid and help them DEVELOP bike skills not just "sit and pedal". All in one Hybrid BMX bike that is ultra light and has killer components down to the flexible gearing setup (you can swap everything as they get older with standard Shimano compatible stuff).


__
http://instagr.am/p/BfUDNgCgBDr/

FWIW my 3yr old rides this bike with a smaller cockpit setup. He should be riding the 14" but I thought I could make some adjustments to support him while he is young and then have a super bike once he starts to work on skills beyond standing and pedaling and has some extra height. So far so good and he is standing and pedaling now. (smaller cranks, smaller chainring and flat bars).

Wish we had done this with my first kid (6 now). We kind of just followed the twowheelingtots.com advice stuff (that's all I know at the time) and we focused on getting a bike for sitting and pedaling rather than getting a "Skill Development" bike. Its all fixed now with older kid but it slowed him down considering his serious passion for riding and built some bad habits.


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

We drink the Spawn Kool-Aid too. Here's a playlist of short, fun, and edited videos of my kids over past few years riding ramps, teeter-totters, jumps, and the Whistler Bike Park:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDuIdwYWBLtl8Xr8loAFp-H2cytzuaNrj
Featuring these Spawn bikes::

14" Spawn Furi - custom 2x1 transmission
16" Spawn Banshee - custom 2x1 transmission + air fork
20" Spawn Savage 2.0
20" Spawn Rokkusuta
A small fortune spent on Spawn bikes with likely more to come, but so so so worth it given how much we ride and what we ride. My own bike hasn't been replaced in a dozen years now, since all the $ is going to the kids' bikes.


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## Crit Rat (Mar 13, 2008)

svinyard said:


> FWIW my 3yr old rides this bike with a smaller cockpit setup. He should be riding the 14" but I thought I could make some adjustments to support him while he is young and then have a super bike once he starts to work on skills beyond standing and pedaling and has some extra height. So far so good and he is standing and pedaling now. (smaller cranks, smaller chainring and flat bars).


I'm looking at '16 for my 4 year old who's a bit on the shorter side. He's ok regarding standover per the Spawn sizing guide but I think a flat bar could be helpful for the first 6 months or so. What bar did you use?

I'm ready to order a Yoji 16" and potentially a 20" Yama Jama for my 6 yr old. Still thinking about the Flow bikes 20" for the six year old also. I do like the reach adjust with the concentric headset cups on the flow. Other than that they seem pretty similar.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Crit Rat said:


> I'm looking at '16 for my 4 year old who's a bit on the shorter side. He's ok regarding standover per the Spawn sizing guide but I think a flat bar could be helpful for the first 6 months or so. What bar did you use?
> 
> I'm ready to order a Yoji 16" and potentially a 20" Yama Jama for my 6 yr old. Still thinking about the Flow bikes 20" for the six year old also. I do like the reach adjust with the concentric headset cups on the flow. Other than that they seem pretty similar.


Bar was a fly racing bar. It's 22mm BMX I think and fits the stock stem. It's a 2in rise that we have swooped backwards. Works so far after cutting an inch off the width.

Let me help you with the 20in...Yama Jama and it's not that close. Flow stuff is super nice too but that forks will never come close to the Brood fork. It's freaky nice for kids. Nearly zero stiction. Plus the spawn is cheaper iirc. Colors are great (green). Also man, the tires are spectacular. I'm not overly beholden either but want the best at that price. We will be building a frame up Transition Ripcord this next winter as we move to the next size.


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## Crit Rat (Mar 13, 2008)

svinyard said:


> Bar was a fly racing bar. It's 22mm BMX I think and fits the stock stem. It's a 2in rise that we have swooped backwards. Works so far after cutting an inch off the width.
> 
> Let me help you with the 20in...Yama Jama and it's not that close. Flow stuff is super nice too but that forks will never come close to the Brood fork. It's freaky nice for kids. Nearly zero stiction. Plus the spawn is cheaper iirc. Colors are great (green). Also man, the tires are spectacular. I'm not overly beholden either but want the best at that price. We will be building a frame up Transition Ripcord this next winter as we move to the next size.


Thanks for the great reply!

The fork was the biggest unknown for me on the Yama vs Flow and that solves my dilemma. Agreed that the Brood tires look excellent as well plus the ability to setup tubeless is win win.

So great we have options like this for the kids now, good equipment makes riding a dream vs a chore.


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## skyak (Sep 21, 2008)

Spawn 16" - now servicing child #2. New pink grips and bell = good as new. Note the pedal strike...


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## Erica15 (Jul 16, 2018)

Hi, 

I have been reading threads and forums looking for advice on what Spawn bike to buy for my son. He is 3 years old. Im leaning towards the 16inch as I would like more time with the bike but I want to get something that he will be confident. I saw a Spawn 16 but seemed like the handle bars were really high up and he would have difficulty with the brakes. Are there different bars? Where do you get those? Thanks for the suggestions!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Hey man, so my 3yr isn't huge but rides the heck out of his 16". He can stand and pedal really well and climb a bit on single track too. Love the bike. However it was too big when we got it and somewhat still. It's intended to be somewhat of a BMX hybrid so small isn't bad. The 14" would fit fine I'm sure with the kiddie hand brakes and smaller rise on the bars.

So we have the 16" but had to modify it to work. Went with flat bars, you can find some cheap carbon ones and cut them down. Also fly racing 2" risers work, you just have to rotate all the way back. Also get a Wren stem to save a bunch of weight and support the carbon bars.

I also swapped to the smaller cranks and a smaller 24t chainring, super critical there. Brake levers are smaller ones now I think. 

My buddy has a big 3yro and the 14". It's smaller and has much of this done. Works well and standover and seat height are ideal. Easy to just ride it out of the box. Your call as to which is best. We do love the 16" and as time goes on we'll get it setup more like a BMX as he grows and put the bigger cranks and chainring on too.


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## JRod0981 (Apr 26, 2017)

svinyard said:


> Hey man, so my 3yr isn't huge but rides the heck out of his 16". He can stand and pedal really well and climb a bit on single track too. Love the bike. However it was too big when we got it and somewhat still. It's intended to be somewhat of a BMX hybrid so small isn't bad. The 14" would fit fine I'm sure with the kiddie hand brakes and smaller rise on the bars.
> 
> So we have the 16" but had to modify it to work. Went with flat bars, you can find some cheap carbon ones and cut them down. Also fly racing 2" risers work, you just have to rotate all the way back. Also get a Wren stem to save a bunch of weight and support the carbon bars.
> 
> ...


Glad I stumbled accross this thread as I am looking for a new pedal bike for my almost 4 year old. I'm curious as to the inseams of your kids. Mine is just under 18" and he is 41" in height. He has been riding a 12" strider for a while now. We definitely need to get him a new bike soon.

I'm leaning toward this Yoji 16" or a Cleary Hedgehog 16" (thoughts between the two???). It's a bit much to bite off $$$ wise for a kids bike at these price points so I want to make sure I am getting a bike that will be with him for a while if needed and last through 2 kids.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Bro, Yoji only. No contest. If this is too expensive (it felt like that for me), then buy him a crappy Walmart bike so he hates MTBing and you won't be forced to drop 500 - 1100$ on the 20" lol. I'm half joking . I say make a bike plan/strategy and start saving. Yoji to 20" Yama Jama is your best bet unless he is flying by then and needs a Rokkusutta FS 20"... tho its great for them to spend time on a hardtail if possible when they are this young. Pushing the limits of a hardtail makes them better riders imo. At 24" a Rokkusuta, Custom light Ripcord FS frame build or Trail Craft Maxwell FS is best for most kids that can really ride with adults (I see tons of these kids around town, it's eye opening). For a Hardtail, Spawn and Trail Craft also make a killer bike as does Orbea/Norco etc. Cheaper hardtail is about 750$ with a real working airfork unlike the cheaper coil trash (don't buy the coil forks or silly plus tire bikes... performance sucks for kids. Bikes like Spesh Riprock are the worst as they have both). 

Dont think your kid won't need FS. I see my kindergartener out ride his hardtail ALL the time. It's just like adult riding but with high consequences cause it's your kid.

So now that you are planning to be broke on bikes like the rest of us... Back to the Yoji. It's so great because of the BMX hybrid side of it and super light weight. That means you put the stock riser bars on it as they get bigger and it rides like a BMX trail bike thing. It's perfect cause BMX riding is amazing for kids skill development. It also looks cooler than the other ones. The green is dope. I have two in the garage now. Yoji and Yama Jama. I had a Stampede 16" and it's hanging weighting to be sold because I wanted my little guy to have at least one new bike and the Yoji was just so nice and light. Good luck


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## RX93 (Apr 30, 2018)

so my new 4yo has mastered her balance bike. She rode down a small toboggan hill, picked up speed and coasted to a stop at the bottom.

So I've been looking (and following svinyard from the Instinct thread) at Spawn cycles. How's does the Banshee compare to the Yoji? Banshee is going for $350 used and the Yoji for $380.. is it worth the extra $30 to go with the Yoji?


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## Seb15 (Jun 15, 2018)

RX93 said:


> so my new 4yo has mastered her balance bike. She rode down a small toboggan hill, picked up speed and coasted to a stop at the bottom.
> 
> So I've been looking (and following svinyard from the Instinct thread) at Spawn cycles. How's does the Banshee compare to the Yoji? Banshee is going for $350 used and the Yoji for $380.. is it worth the extra $30 to go with the Yoji?


For $30 I would buy the better one and you also get new instead of used one, no brainer.


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## RX93 (Apr 30, 2018)

Oh, the Yoji is used too, sorry my bad for not mentioning it. Did some more research, the Yoji seems to be the better choice with a little more adjustability in the stem.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RX93 said:


> Oh, the Yoji is used too, sorry my bad for not mentioning it. Did some more research, the Yoji seems to be the better choice with a little more adjustability in the stem.


Iirc the Yoji has way more standard type parts (shimano style free wheel etc etc) than the Banshee. Also it's lighter. Easy choice. I was able to completely reconfigure the Yoji for a small rider and I don't think I could have gone that far or as easily with anything else. Amazing bike


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## RX93 (Apr 30, 2018)

Sweet, thanks svinyard. I'm gonna see if I can get that Yoji this weekend.


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## RX93 (Apr 30, 2018)

My 16" Yoji showed up today. My daughter is coming back today, it'll be a nice surprise for her. 

It'll be an interesting transition for her to go from her balance bike to the Yoji.  Now, if only it would stop raining!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RX93 said:


> My 16" Yoji showed up today. My daughter is coming back today, it'll be a nice surprise for her.
> 
> It'll be an interesting transition for her to go from her balance bike to the Yoji.  Now, if only it would stop raining!


Depending on how tall she is, there are some great updates to the cockpit that you can do to make it really easy for them. Its a hybrid BMX style bike, and I love it for that tho for those first 6 mo or so until they can really stand and pedal...they need something really comfy for just sitting and pedaling (which you need to get out of fast). We've used a Wren stem (shed big weight) and a light flat carbon bar cut down.

Then when they can really stand and rip (get them standing soon!) then you can move to the riser bars once they are ready for it (and the right size).

Its a great bike and kids can really ride it a long time due to the BMX elements. The tires make it a heck of a single track machine too. Good luck and consider a Full Face helmet like Bell Super 2/3R asap and a bunch of pads to protect their confidence. My kid on this bike has a dead front tooth because we didn't. Both my kids rip but they also fall a lot, especially the youngest.


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## RX93 (Apr 30, 2018)

Oh yeah, I'm sure the ex will report me to Child Protective Services if my kid goes down and hurts herself too much.. 

The stem and bar, did you get yours changed over for your 4yo right off the bat? I'll try her out with the out of box configuration and see how she sits first before I order anything. You also mentioned a 2" riser in a previous post, which one is that? I looked at the site and found the snowmobile riser but not the bike riser.

Will look into getting her a full face and pads though, for sure. I figure we'll get 2 months out of it before it snows but she'll be back on it next spring. Thanks again Steve!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RX93 said:


> Oh yeah, I'm sure the ex will report me to Child Protective Services if my kid goes down and hurts herself too much..
> 
> The stem and bar, did you get yours changed over for your 4yo right off the bat? I'll try her out with the out of box configuration and see how she sits first before I order anything. You also mentioned a 2" riser in a previous post, which one is that? I looked at the site and found the snowmobile riser but not the bike riser.
> 
> Will look into getting her a full face and pads though, for sure. I figure we'll get 2 months out of it before it snows but she'll be back on it next spring. Thanks again Steve!


Yeah things have a evolved a bit for me as I've learned more.

My kid started on the Yoji 16" when he was 3 (just turned 4 couple weeks ago) and it was a bit big (I know this going in). At first I just purchased the Fly 2in Riser bars as they fit with the stock stem. I cut/slammed the seat and it will never rise to require/encourage standing and pedaling. I swapped out the bars with those 2in fly bar. I swapped out the cranks down to 89mm from 102mm. Works beautifully. Bike fit much better and he took to pedaling in about 20 mins.

The fly bars are ok but I have a Wren stem and carbon flat bars to put on there too. That'll cut some weight and probably make the handling a bit better now as the 2in riser bars rotated back are a little odd but have certainly worked for us.

This is my 3yo on it pic/videos: (these are all from spring time...he is really jamming on it now.)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ueVjXEvDnD9wBnSf8


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

svinyard said:


> This is my 3yo on it pic/videos: (these are all from spring time...he is really jamming on it now.)
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ueVjXEvDnD9wBnSf8
> 
> View attachment 1215865


Nice!~


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

RX93 said:


> Oh yeah, I'm sure the ex will report me to Child Protective Services if my kid goes down and hurts herself too much..


The Bell Shield is also worth a look as a cheaper FF option -- it's designed more like a skateboard helmet and not something I'd trust for more aggressive riding, but the chinbar has saved our 3yo a few times:
https://www.sierratradingpost.com/bell-shield-bike-helmet-size-205-22-for-little-kids~p~400rf/

Also consider adjusting the gearing to the terrain you'll be going on -- we just switched to an 18T rear cog with a slightly longer chain and he's more confident riding back and forth between grass and pavement now (I know at least 14T will fit with the stock chain):
Shimano DX Single Speed Sprocket | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## RX93 (Apr 30, 2018)

Thanks Tim. I'll look into it. Locally there isn't a lot of options for the Bell Super FF helmets, so it's difficult to try to test fit. I'll consider the cheaper FF's, for next spring.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

The Bell Super r small aren't going to be an ideal fit for young kids like 3/4yro but they are fairly close with the fit dial for low speed stuff. The upside to getting it is that it'll work for your kid for like the next 4yrs. My 6yro has a big head and still has room to grow. As an adult I wear a medium as does my wife.


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## ChrisJTX (Sep 5, 2018)

svinyard said:


> These bikes are the best of both worlds. Super light trail bike with awesome tires AND the BMX sort of geometry to support a taller kid and help them DEVELOP bike skills not just "sit and pedal". All in one Hybrid BMX bike that is ultra light and has killer components down to the flexible gearing setup (you can swap everything as they get older with standard Shimano compatible stuff).
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Nice.

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## Brian-NotTheMessiah (Oct 2, 2018)

svinyard said:


> Yeah things have a evolved a bit for me as I've learned more.
> 
> My kid started on the Yoji 16" when he was 3 (just turned 4 couple weeks ago) and it was a bit big (I know this going in). At first I just purchased the Fly 2in Riser bars as they fit with the stock stem. I cut/slammed the seat and it will never rise to require/encourage standing and pedaling. I swapped out the bars with those 2in fly bar. I swapped out the cranks down to 89mm from 102mm. Works beautifully. Bike fit much better and he took to pedaling in about 20 mins.
> 
> ...


Hi! I'm so glad I've found this topic, the idea of not having to fork out for a 14" is really appealing! What I think anyone who finds this valuable info would love to know is: what's the minimum inseam required for your compact 16" version? How high is the seat from the floor once slammed? I'm in South Africa, so getting a spawn bike isn't going to be an easy thing and I'd like to make sure I order the right thing unseen if possible!

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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Spawns sizing chart is pretty on point. From the floor to the top of the seat (with it slammed) its only 16". My kid started out with it on his tippy toes and did fine. It's not perfect to start a kid on their toes like that but my youngest there isn't nearly the big athletic risk taker my oldest is, yet he was riding it without my help in 30mins having never pedaled. Took him a bit to start on his own but that's not that important early on. Just make sure you slam the seat (you'll have to cut it down maybe) and don't raise it. The first thing a kid needs to know after pedaling/starting... Is standing and pedaling. It doesn't take much to work them in it and the bike makes it easier for them than most. After that, it's basic cornering, then standing through bumps and curb drops with appropriate body position (attack). Then it's more advanced cornering body positioning along with raising the front wheel over speed bumps. Then it's jumping . All of those things we do at home in the neighborhood along with lots of trail riding. So much of it goes a LONG way to keeping them safe and having fun. Even our flatter trails on the mountain are on edges where if they go off, it could be a significant tumble. When it's dusty and loose out, their front wheel can get eaten if they have bad form etc. Could be really high consequences even on easy trails. This is why the road bikes from Isla/Woom are such trash for mtb... It's just to easy for the bike and crappy tires to get wreck them in critical spots. Cheers.

OH and getting the 16" is a good idea. The 14" is good for a smaller kid and as such the bike is quite a bit shorter/smaller.


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## Brian-NotTheMessiah (Oct 2, 2018)

svinyard said:


> Spawns sizing chart is pretty on point. From the floor to the top of the seat (with it slammed) its only 16". My kid started out with it on his tippy toes and did fine. It's not perfect to start a kid on their toes like that but my youngest there isn't nearly the big athletic risk taker my oldest is, yet he was riding it without my help in 30mins having never pedaled. Took him a bit to start on his own but that's not that important early on. Just make sure you slam the seat (you'll have to cut it down maybe) and don't raise it. The first thing a kid needs to know after pedaling/starting... Is standing and pedaling. It doesn't take much to work them in it and the bike makes it easier for them than most. After that, it's basic cornering, then standing through bumps and curb drops with appropriate body position (attack). Then it's more advanced cornering body positioning along with raising the front wheel over speed bumps. Then it's jumping . All of those things we do at home in the neighborhood along with lots of trail riding. So much of it goes a LONG way to keeping them safe and having fun. Even our flatter trails on the mountain are on edges where if they go off, it could be a significant tumble. When it's dusty and loose out, their front wheel can get eaten if they have bad form etc. Could be really high consequences even on easy trails. This is why the road bikes from Isla/Woom are such trash for mtb... It's just to easy for the bike and crappy tires to get wreck them in critical spots. Cheers.
> 
> OH and getting the 16" is a good idea. The 14" is good for a smaller kid and as such the bike is quite a bit shorter/smaller.


Thanks, He's 3 and been on a strider for around a year, he's not the big athletic type, but he's very fast and brave on his bike and now starting to stand on the back. I think I may try and arrange to get the 16" for Christmas.

I'm loving the skills development route, I had stumbled across the cult juvi, but I'm a mountain biker myself and that's mostly what we have available in South Africa, so it makes more sense to go the spawn route I think. I know exactly what you mean about some trails with bad camber being dangerous with the wrong bike and you don't want to put them off over it.

Are there any online resources that you've found useful in all this?

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## ocxray (May 30, 2015)

svinyard said:


> Hey man, so my 3yr isn't huge but rides the heck out of his 16". He can stand and pedal really well and climb a bit on single track too. Love the bike. However it was too big when we got it and somewhat still. It's intended to be somewhat of a BMX hybrid so small isn't bad. The 14" would fit fine I'm sure with the kiddie hand brakes and smaller rise on the bars.
> 
> So we have the 16" but had to modify it to work. Went with flat bars, you can find some cheap carbon ones and cut them down. Also fly racing 2" risers work, you just have to rotate all the way back. Also get a Wren stem to save a bunch of weight and support the carbon bars.
> 
> ...


Hey man thanks for all the great info. My 4 year old is tiny for his age but just converted from his balance bike to a crappy 12" Trek pedal bike. The kid is fearless on the bike and absolutely loves it, so I'm ready to invest in something nice that will serve him (and hopefully his baby brother) for the next few years.

You have me pretty well sold on the Spawn Yoji, but in another thread someone mentioned the Proline Pitboss as being better for BMX. I am a mountain biker and eager to get my kid on the trails, and I never raced BMX but kind of wish I did- so I could see trying out BMX with my kid in another year or 2. Is the Yoji a bike that he could also use for BMX racing if we were to get into that? Or is it really just a mini mtn bike and not suitable for BMX? Thanks for all your great advice.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Hey man, the Yoji is kind of a hybrid "freestyle BMX" bike and little kid trail bike with mtb tires on it. It's a great skill dev bike and works great at pump track and skate parks.

Now, legit BMX racing is a whole different ball game. The bike geo is longer and more towards speed etc rather than skill dev etc. They have bigger but really light wheels... it's a specific tool. 

Id just get the Yoji and for sure he could jump into some races with it. If he really takes off doing that, then you can look into BMX race bike stuff. My nephew was nearly the top kid in the PNW in his age group at one point... his race bike was like 2 grand.


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## ocxray (May 30, 2015)

Perfect. Exactly what I needed to hear. Gonna go with the Yoji. If we try a few BMX events with it and he gets into it then we can take it from there. 
Is there any reason to buy the shorter seatpost rather than cutting down the stock USA one? I saw you mention a few mods you've done. How can you tell if your kid needs shorter cranks? My guy is tiny for his age, maybe 36" tall with 18.5" inseam. But very coordinated and rips on his 12" bike. Based on your advice I'm gonna get him working on standing / peddling once we get the new bike... what's next after that?
Thanks for the awesome posts.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

ocxray said:


> Is there any reason to buy the shorter seatpost rather than cutting down the stock USA one?


A few I can think of:
- it's faster than cutting to just swap posts
- it gives you a spare post you might be able to use on another bike later
- you don't own a hacksaw
- you don't have to worry about remarking or remembering where the minimum insertion depth line was



> I saw you mention a few mods you've done like riser bars. Can you explain your thinking behind all those? My plan is probably to just ride it stock for a while, but I like to tinker so if you can shed light onto what mods you've done and why I'd appreciate it.


Here's what we've done with our Yoji 14:
- Shimano 18T BMX cog in rear (required new 7/8 speed chain) to lower the gearing and make it easier to ride on grass and rough surfaces. Tried the 14t from spawn, but it wasn't quite enough of a drop (though it did still work with the stock chain).
- Tioga Dazz Lite pedals to give a larger contact area than the stock pedals. They're thr longest narrow width pedals I've been able to find without going to metal.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Shrinking the cockpit for a smaller rider on the 16" is a good move. If your kids inseam is around 15 or 16in the seat will need to be cut down (don't buy a second one as you should never raise it in my opinion as standing and pedaling is the one thing they need to do... sitting has not much of a purpose at this age... they can't climb sitting yet). Also the riser bars that come arent great for smaller riders at all (they are great later when big enough to use it BMX style). We got fly racing 2in rise bars and swooped them straight back. Now we have a Wren stem and flat carbon bars from eBay that were 560mm and cut down.

We also def went with shorter cranks. It's a good thing for sure if your kid isn't huge. Long cranks don't have much of an advantage anyways and you'll get less pedal strikes too. Def worth it. 

I really like the gearing swap. We went to a 24t chainring iirc. It's worked well enough. Maybe there are other ways that are easier.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm looking at trying the Suntour 20" air fork on a Yoji 16 (getting close to placing an order for an upgrade from our 14). For those who have done a fork swap, am I going to need a new crown race for the new fork?

Assuming I can get a compatible crown race, I'd rather just order something than spend the time trying to remove the original one without damaging it (or the fork).


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

TimTucker said:


> For those who have done a fork swap, am I going to need a new crown race for the new fork?
> 
> Assuming I can get a compatible crown race, I'd rather just order something than spend the time trying to remove the original one without damaging it (or the fork).


I reused the stock one (came off easily) when I upgraded a Banshee (old Yoji model) with a Spinner Grind Air 20. Hopefully it will be easy for you too.

Curious what you'll do for brake posts. Carver clamps?


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

CeUnit said:


> I reused the stock one (came off easily) when I upgraded a Banshee (old Yoji model) with a Spinner Grind Air 20. Hopefully it will be easy for you too.
> 
> Curious what you'll do for brake posts. Carver clamps?


That's what I'm leaning towards at the moment -- have been going back and forth in my mind between those vs. trying to build up a disc front wheel with some relatively lightweight jogging stroller rims I have sitting around.


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

FWIW my modified Banshee w stock vbrakes has been ridden hard by both my kids on lots of green/blue downhill specific mtn bike trails and jump parks and is still going strong  since 2015


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

For anyone who may be interested, I emailed bikeman and they reactivated their ebay listing for the clamps - will probably pick up a pair once the next coupon drops.

Ebay price is $33 w/ free shipping vs ~$38 shipped from their website.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carver-Bikes-Clamp-On-Cantilever-Brake-Posts/264085173369


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## Brian-NotTheMessiah (Oct 2, 2018)

*This is why Spawn 14/16" bikes are the best for kids!*

I'm interested to know how much longer a 16" yogi will last with a 20" Suntour fork upgrade? What would the next spawn bike in the lineup be? Could you go to a 24" rokkusuta/Yama Jama with 20" wheels, flipped stem and shortened cranks?

Also does anyone happen to know what the head angle on the upgraded 16" is?

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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Got the 16" Yoji in yesterday and put it together last night.

Only snag was that the wheels needed more truing / dishing than I would have hoped for out of the box. The front wheel was particularly in need of dishing.

In hindsight, spending 20 minutes trying to get v-brakes adjusted before putting the wheels on the truing stand to test them out was not time well spent. Should have just gone ahead and started with the truing stand, since I encountered a similar issue with our 14" Yoji when I ordered it last spring.

As much as I love Spawn's bikes once they're assembled, I hate to think what the experience would have been like for a parent who didn't already have a truing stand and knowledge of how to use it.

I'll measure the before / after head angle once the rest of the parts / tools I ordered come in (brake boss clamps / start nut setter / cutting guide).

We went for a quick ride this morning since he was pretty insistent that he needed to "test it out" (not his usual riding clothes, but it was pajama day at preschool):


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Max offered to refund me the cost to true a wheel (20$). I just messed with it myself until I got it. Pretty easy for lateral truing.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

FYI, for those who are curious it's a 44mm headset on the Yoji.

Was thinking it was smaller than our Cujo, but apparently not -- Cujo is just a bit shorter and has a slightly wider outer diameter, which makes it look like it would be fatter.


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## Silvestri (Apr 2, 2009)

With some of the recommendations here to swap my 16" Yoji to a flat bar and stem, it's getting a bit small for my 5yo.. thinking of putting the original BMX bar stem back on it to get some more rise in the front. 

At what point would you suggest moving from a 16" to a small 20" bike?

Single dad here.. I can't afford all these bike upgrades so I'm gonna try to maximize the time my little spends on each iteration of bike before she has to move on.


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## nwa bike dad (Apr 21, 2018)

Silvestri said:


> With some of the recommendations here to swap my 16" Yoji to a flat bar and stem, it's getting a bit small for my 5yo.. thinking of putting the original BMX bar stem back on it to get some more rise in the front.
> 
> At what point would you suggest moving from a 16" to a small 20" bike?
> 
> Single dad here.. I can't afford all these bike upgrades so I'm gonna try to maximize the time my little spends on each iteration of bike before she has to move on.


Really depends on the kind of riding you are doing. I have a 9 year old son that rides a 16" BMX at the skatepark/pump track still. It is bigger than a Yoji but not by much. Gears uphill and bigger tires and diff geo for downhill and rolling over stuff will be become an issue if they are starting to be proficient on trails probably moreso that the other stuff.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

nwa bike dad said:


> Really depends on the kind of riding you are doing. I have a 9 year old son that rides a 16" BMX at the skatepark/pump track still. It is bigger than a Yoji but not by much. Gears uphill and bigger tires and diff geo for downhill and rolling over stuff will be become an issue if they are starting to be proficient on trails probably moreso that the other stuff.


Agreed -- for BMX / skatepark stuff the smaller bike will be useful for years if you toss on a riser bar & some more park-oriented tires, but if you're doing any kind of XC trail riding you want to move up ASAP.

My son is almost 5 and we moved to 20" for trail riding as soon as I could get him physically standing over it (seatpost & saddle from the Yoji helped with that).

I'd slackened the HTA on our Yoji by adding in a 20" suspension fork up front to improve the geometry for going downhill, but the combination of larger wheels and gears made a night and day difference in what he could handle going uphill.


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## nwa bike dad (Apr 21, 2018)

TimTucker said:


> Agreed -- for BMX / skatepark stuff the smaller bike will be useful for years if you toss on a riser bar & some more park-oriented tires, but if you're doing any kind of XC trail riding you want to move up ASAP.
> 
> My son is almost 5 and we moved to 20" for trail riding as soon as I could get him physically standing over it (seatpost & saddle from the Yoji helped with that).
> 
> Geo wasn't so much of an issue on the Yoji since I'd added in a 20" suspension fork up front, but the combination of larger wheels and gears made a night and day difference in what he could handle.


Only reason I said geo was the HTA is pretty steep on the Yoji if you are riding down stuff much with roots and rocks. Again, agree that gears and tire size make a big difference. There are some great companies now that make really cool little kids bikes!


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

nwa bike dad said:


> Only reason I said geo was the HTA is pretty steep on the Yoji if you are riding down stuff much with roots and rocks. Again, agree that gears and tire size make a big difference. There are some great companies now that make really cool little kids bikes!


Updated my post to clarify my original point that while slackening the HTA improves things going downhill it's still pretty tough going uphill vs. a bigger geared bike.

I've definitely been impressed by what I've been seeing over the last 2 years -- with the rate of progress, I've been finding it advantageous to build / buy once my sons are ready height-wise vs. trying to build up a "next bike" before they're tall enough.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Another update for anyone interested -- stock 68mm Neco bottom bracket weighs about 246.

Swapping in a Ti BB & aluminum crank arm bolts from Aliexpress saves about 110g.

Chainline looks OK with a 119mm spinde, but stock spindle appears to have been a little narrower -- maybe 113mm or lower (didn't measure, just put them side by side on the table).


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Thinking of trying something with the Yoji 14 for my younger son and was curious -- has anyone tried running the Yoji 14 as a mullet bike with 14" in back and the tire / fork from the 16" up front?

With a flat bar it seems like reach / stack / overall weight wouldn't be all that much different, but the bottom bracket would be slightly higher (worse for overall stability?), the HTA would be a little slacker (better for control downhill), and rollover would be better (good).

Admittedly this is only a temporary measure until he grows another inch or two to fit into the 16" better.


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

TimTucker said:


> Thinking of trying something with the Yoji 14 for my younger son and was curious -- has anyone tried running the Yoji 14 as a mullet bike with 14" in back and the tire / fork from the 16" up front?


Neat idea. I say go for it since it only takes hex keys and about 10 mins to swap fork/stem/bar! Lettuce know how it goes :thumbsup:


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Here it is -- Yoji 14/16:








Put a slightly longer lever arm Tektro brake in the rear (originally off the 16" Yoji), compressionless brake cable, some aftermarket Clarks brake pads in back, a set of levers that came with the mechanical disc brakes on our Cujo 20, & Junit bars so I could adjust the levers in closer.

From a short sidewalk ride to test it stops a LOT easier for him than it did before -- we'll see how well it works when we test it out on a trail.


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## bingch (Oct 20, 2020)

Hi all. 
Well I just purchased a spawn yoji 16” for my son who’ll turn 3 next month. He’s about 39” tall with a 15.75 inseam. Currently he’s been riding a balance bike for a few months now. He loves the hills on the local dirt track. Since he’s on the short end for a 16”, what do you all recommend for modifying the yoji. I just purchased a fly 2” handlebar. Do I need to cut it to make it roughly the same length as the yoji handle bars. Anything else you think I should do. Not looking to spend a fortune since the bike was pretty expensive to begin with, but I hope well worth it. Thanks in advance.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

bingch said:


> I just purchased a fly 2" handlebar. Do I need to cut it to make it roughly the same length as the yoji handle bars.


Stock bars are 520mm with 100mm wide grips. If you use standard width grips (~130-140mm), that gives close to the same hand position on 600mm bars if you grip near the inner portion.


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## kyle_vk (Jul 25, 2011)

These bikes are amazing, worth the $$ even though it was tough to justify it! My little man had been jumping on his every once and a while but still preferred his balance bike since he was comfortable on it. At not quite 2 1/2 I was just letting him ride whatever he wanted, until the other day when he made enough pedals on his own to show that he could do it if he wanted. Fast forward to tonight and with the bribe of some skittles he took off! Not sure if he'll learn to start on his own before snow falls and stopping will take some time, but i'm shocked and excited that he's already learning to pedal, good times await next spring!





Also, i learned that me telling him to watch where he's going does not mean i'm watching where i'm going


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