# A challenge for my fellow mountain bikers!



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?

I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?

Chris


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## seely (Jan 20, 2004)

smilycook said:


> Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?
> 
> I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?
> 
> Chris


We are not worthy of your greatness Chris! Please, I humble myself in your awesome presence. 

There I think thats what you were looking for.


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## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

*what kind of Jackass response is that*



seely said:


> We are not worthy of your greatness Chris! Please, I humble myself in your awesome presence.
> 
> There I think thats what you were looking for.


seriously dude WTF.

One day a year out of everybody would make a real difference,but instead a small percentage of people are trying to pick up the slack.


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## t66 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Do illegal trails count?*

If so I'm in! I can probably swing a couple on existing trails also.


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## EveryDaysANewDay (Jan 13, 2004)

*Totally*



KgB said:


> One day a year out of everybody would make a real difference,but instead a small percentage of people are trying to pick up the slack.


Totally, when working a trail day last year, these pieces of work would ride by on their 2+ grand full suspension rigs while we dozen or so guys (serfs) were cutting a reroute they were riding and have the gull to say, "on your left" or some other nonsense pretending like they're too focused on riding to stop/notice or care. Maybe trails should be closed somehow when there's a workday to encourage trail day participation/publicize trail workdays cause few things are more disheartening to trail workers than having someone ride by...and that shouldn't happen, at least not during the time you're working on the trail!

P.S. post trail workday group rides are the best.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

I'll take that challenge. But maybe you should make it "at least one day". In 2003, our (very small) local advocacy group built a 50' bridge, 200' of "bog bridges", a 3/4-mile trail re-route, and did a lot of routine maintenance.


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## papajohn (Feb 1, 2004)

*Trail Maintenance*

Our Mountain Biking Association of Arizona (MBAA) runs a XC race series each year from January through May (different season from the snow and rain regions!), and each participant can earn a substantial number of bonus points toward the Series Point Championship by doing a day of sanctioned trail maintenance on one of several projects that are always underway. I think it is a great idea.


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## Birdman (Dec 31, 2003)

*Did 62 hours TM & 33 hours patrol in 2003*

John Jans
SMART chief coordinator

www.angelfire.com/nj2/smart17



smilycook said:


> Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?
> 
> I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?
> 
> Chris


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## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

*close the trails on workdays*



EveryDaysANewDay said:


> Totally, when working a trail day last year, these pieces of work would ride by on their 2+ grand full suspension rigs while we dozen or so guys (serfs) were cutting a reroute they were riding and have the gull to say, "on your left" or some other nonsense pretending like they're too focused on riding to stop/notice or care. Maybe trails should be closed somehow when there's a workday to encourage trail day participation/publicize trail workdays cause few things are more disheartening to trail workers than having someone ride by...and that shouldn't happen, at least not during the time you're working on the trail!
> 
> P.S. post trail workday group rides are the best.


That would eliminate that problem and maybe get a few more volunteers.


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## Hardtail in Georgia (Dec 19, 2003)

*I think it's a great idea...*

I only wish more people would come to trail maintenance. Our group (SORBA Woodstock) even feeds them for free when we are done.

I personally will be doing over 100 hours for the 3rd year in a row this year.

Tucker(just doing my part)


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## YOUR HONOR (Jan 30, 2004)

smilycook said:


> Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?
> 
> I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?
> 
> Chris


good thread. I believe that if you ride the trails, you should help maintain the trails. Period. One does not have to join a club, per se, but he/she should let the local group be aware of his/her availability for assistance.

I put in only 9 days last year--actual trail work days--but that is not including the occasional fix-me-ups one finds while riding. Our trails are rather well groomed. The only time we really get into a maddening frenzy is just before our race in October. There is also a MTB class here at Texas A&M, and a portion of their class credit is putting in a minimum number of trail work hours. That helps a lot.


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## Maple (Jan 30, 2004)

I'll gladly meet that challenge. I'm sure it'll be much more than a day worth as well. The trail work groups in minnesota are growing but it's still surprising to see the number of people on the trail and then compare it to the number of people that come out for a trailwork session. Let's go folks! There's trail just waitin' to be built. 

New! Improved! Sweet creamy singletrack. - just add work.


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## mtbjen (Jan 31, 2004)

*Not sure I agree with your tactic*

I don't think putting people on a guilt trip is going to get them to just decide they're going to start doing trailwork. I do a fair amount here in NC. I used to not do any at all. But, when the local group started posting workdays and making the riding public more aware of

1. When workdays were scheduled and,
2. HOW I could help,

I started to pay attention. See, I was not about to go out and do the work on my own, since I had no CLUE what I was doing and probably would have done more harm than good. Now that's I've been taught, I am very comfortable doing it on my own.

Because I put in alot of time on the trails, I get very irritated when some guy who's out there on a trail I'm visiting gives me [email protected] about not doing trailwork on "his" trail, while he's there. Dude, I DO trailwork. I happen to be enjoying "his" trail while he's out there. Does that mean I can't ride "his" trail if I don't do work on it? "His" trail is not local to me, and I do work on the four trails that are within an hour of my house that I ride frequently.

My point is, do not blindly assume that the guys riding by you while you're working haven't "done their time". Take solace that you are doing a good thing for the trail, and that it is appreciated (or they wouldn't be riding there). Take notice of the improvements you've personally made when you ride a certain section. Don't do trailwork if you expect to get kudos and a big pat on the back and some award. You'll just end up unfulfilled and frustrated.

I got involved in trailwork because I got involved in the local club because they started publicizing organized trail workdays and days to learn how to do it. What we need to do, is work with our clubs on better publicity. Not guilt trips.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Agreed. We shouldn't expect people to do anything, rather we should invite them to help out and let them know HOW to get involved. Many times that's the real issue. An air of expectations and "holier than thou" will not win any favors.

Also, closing a specific trail on a work day could work, but if someone from out of town comes to ride and is not aware, they shouldn't be harassed. By the same token, if you are riding and come upon some people doing trailwork, running them down is not the proper way to show respect (something I have experienced). How about walking the section that is being worked on?


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*You of all people....*



seely said:


> We are not worthy of your greatness Chris! Please, I humble myself in your awesome presence.
> 
> There I think thats what you were looking for.


Should appreciate this thread. After all, people who build and maintain trails keep you employed, jackass.

You should be thanking him, not running him down.

Ken


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## J.D. (Jan 14, 2004)

*word*



YOUR HONOR said:


> I believe that if you ride the trails, you should help maintain the trails. Period.


It's not about a guilt trip. It's about giving back and if one doesn't give back, they are being selfish.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

*You're on!*



smilycook said:


> Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?
> 
> I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?
> 
> Chris


Of course, I'd already challenged myself to do it...


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## cooldaddy (Jan 28, 2004)

*average around 40 hours a year because...*

it's fun... give something back.

trailwork in Oklahoma by the OEF


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## george_da_trog (Jul 1, 2003)

I have mixed emotions about my one trail day this year. We worked on 2 switch backs. One we sanitaized (it was a little to sharp for most but I had no problem with it) and then we built another one up where it was needed.

george


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## george_da_trog (Jul 1, 2003)

J.D. said:


> It's not about a guilt trip. It's about giving back and if one doesn't give back, they are being selfish.


There are other ways to give back to the sport of mountainbiking besides doing trail work.

george


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## YOUR HONOR (Jan 30, 2004)

J.D. said:


> It's not about a guilt trip. It's about giving back and if one doesn't give back, they are being selfish.


No, it's not about a guilt trip. It doesn't matter if one puts in one day or a hundred days of trail work. I believe that those who ride trails should somehow help out. One doesn't have to join a club to do it. Just let others know you can give a hand here and there. To not help reminds me of the story of "The Little Red Hen". Remember that one?


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

Our PayDirt Season runs May1 to April 31. I've done 18 hours so far. 2 more hours gets me in the PayDirt raffle twice. Last year they gave away 2 Santa Cruz frames, 2 Mavic wheelcsets, and lots more swag.


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## Ska (Jan 12, 2004)

I used to do a ton of trail maintenance for the local club here in town. I actually did the mapping of the trail network (back when I was a digital cartographer/GIS guy) and used my own time and connections to get it done and printed completely free of charge. Ironically I still used to get lost back there - LOL

It's a great way to meet good people, make some friends and of course new riding buddies. The pic below is one I pulled out of the archives. The pic is kinda old (scan of a photo) but brings back memories. This bridge used to wash away nearly every spring. You can see in the background just how high the water line would be during the thaw. Nothing better than standing in waste-deep water almost every year after the level started to drop putting this thing back together. We actually had pizza/beer in celebration the one year we discovered it still intact! It was pretty narrow at spots (to the left in the pic), tricky to get on from the left (out of the pic) and many people fell off of it (hey, we Canucks like it kinda nutty). No matter though, there was some nice smelly water to cushion the blow ;-P Unfortunately, after a messy, personal legal mish-mash for the owner (not bike/club related), the trails were shut down. Who knows, maybe by the end of this winter the bridge may have made its way into Lake Huron: bummer.










I agree with mtbjen and screampint when they say it's often a case of HOW to get involved. For me, now that the local trails are gone, I have no idea when work is done on the not-so-local stuff I ride. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to help out or not seeing a need but on the contrary, I WANT to help and totally would. It would also be nice if job lists were left available so that guys like me with the weirdest schedules on the planet can just show up and get to it whenever they got a chance. Some jobs don't require a dozen people. I ride on a very sporadic schedule so why not do trail work on one too?

Now that I think of it though, I'll just have to find out the schedules by looking a little harder and maybe spreading the word around myself once I figure it out. There is no doubt though, if trails are being worked on and clubs need help, they should try and find ways of being more vocal.

Good topic.

Ska!


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## J.D. (Jan 14, 2004)

*kidding*



george_da_trog said:


> There are other ways to give back to the sport of mountainbiking besides doing trail work.


I noticed the extensive list you included. If you're not doing trail work, you shouldn't be riding the trails.


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## george_da_trog (Jul 1, 2003)

J.D. said:


> I noticed the extensive list you included. If you're not doing tail work, you shouldn't be riding the trails.


You know not of what you speak.

george


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## K'Endo (Dec 23, 2003)

J.D. said:


> I noticed the extensive list you included. If you're not doing tail work, you shouldn't be riding the trails.


Actually, one of the biggest challenges for most mtb clubs is getting volunteers to do the _organization_ of the club. Trail days, special events, town hall meetings, planning meetings, getting donations (the list goes on) ... All that "non-trail" work needs people who are organized and can stick to a schedule. Sometimes, just showing up for a day of trail work is the easiest part of the job.

Finding enough organizers to do that behind-the-scenes work so that the "regulars" aren't overloaded is tough. As far as I'm concerned, someone who does that for a year (without laying a finger on a trail) is worth a dozen trail workers. In fact, that type of person will often motivate a dozen trail workers!

Kn.


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## tmccrohon (Jan 17, 2004)

*i always help out but get poison ivy every time*

There has to be trail maintenance duties that dont involve brush. I am in agony for weeks after each time. By the time the next season rols around I forget the itching, oozing insanity and dive in brush again. I'll never learn. Maybe this year i'll carry a backpack full of cold drinks to the crews instead.


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## Earthpig (Jan 23, 2004)

*Sure, but....*



smilycook said:


> Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?
> 
> I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?
> 
> Chris


Chris, I always do at least 1 trail work day every year. (I worked on the new piped culverts on both Bobs and Corrals the last couple of years...) However, I agree with a lot of those above that it's also a notice thing - getting the word out is absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, I rarely if ever see notices around here for trail work - it's usually just a word of mouth thing, which doesn't get it done. How do you propose to let people know about trail work days?

PS - Let me know, and I'll be there (especially if we're talking about including a post work ride and beers at Lucky 13 after the ride!!)


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

george_da_trog said:


> I have mixed emotions about my one trail day this year. We worked on 2 switch backs. One we sanitaized (it was a little to sharp for most but I had no problem with it) and then we built another one up where it was needed.
> 
> george


I came away from my one day of trail work this year with mixed emotions, too. It
seemed that we were tasked with doing work for work's sake. I'll go again, though,
as it seems like the organizers/participants were willing to listen to suggestions and
the intentions of the group are good.

baker


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## DmofoT (Jan 6, 2004)

*Hows this for trailwork?*



smilycook said:


> Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?
> 
> I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?
> 
> Chris


I think MORE did a pretty good job of completing their one day of trail maintenance. I'm not sure exactly how many days I did, but it's at least a week. Most of the work this year was fixing damaged trails from the weather, but we managed a few reroutes and new trail.

http://more-mtb.org/story.php?news_ID=206&catID=1

DT


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## filthy little monkey (Feb 2, 2004)

Cheers to trailwork! such a wonderful way to create positive change in your mountain biking community.
Actually I spend 6 straight weeks a year doing trailwork as I lead trail crews for the Student Conservation Association. This will be my 8th consecutive year working with them. That's a lot of palaski swingin' but I wouldn't think twice about doing it as it is such a good way to help foster those important relationships with our federal land managers. We need their support as mountain bikers.

On another positive note, with the leadership of Kevin and a few other key COPMOBA folks, Fruita/Grand Junction will now have an official trail crew committee directing all those trail maintenance days and new trail projects. More reasons to come ride Fruita singletrack.....


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## seely (Jan 20, 2004)

KgB said:


> seriously dude WTF.


There is a difference between saying "We all should help out on trail days and need to participate more. I myself have participated in quite a few this year and was disappointed with the low turnout"

Anyone who makes a seperate paragraph to tell you that they "personally did 20 trail days" is just looking for a pat on the back. So I gave him one.


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## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

*Not looking for a pat on the back, just think it is an important topic*

There always seems to be so few people who get out for trailwork compared to the amount of people who actually ride in my town. I would love to see at least ten people out for each of the trailwork days swimba has over the course of a year. I will certaintly try to advertise a lot more and put flyers up ahead of time. I was also trying to get input on why people don't show up for trailwork days and how to get the word out better.

Here is one trailwork day you can put on your calender and that is June 5th national trails day! SWIMBA will most likely be at shaffer butter working on the new singletrack we have up there.

Chris
Boise, ID
www.swimba.org


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Double agreed! I think Ken in KC posted something last year about treating riders going through with a smile and not contempt (Ken - great post, BTW). One of my maintenance co-workers always seems to scowl at people riding through - what a way to turn them off! You're better off to give them a big smile and ask how the trail rides, thank them for doing some compaction (especially the guys with the big guts), or something like that.

The other thing is, trail work is not for everyone. People who don't want to be there should not be there. Bad attitudes, whining about the heat/cold/bugs/food/etc. - who needs that kind of help? I'll take a half dozen of semi-skilled enthusiastic people any day. Someone once asked,"How do you get anything done with all these volunteers?". Taking the time to show someone how to do something right is not well spent if they never show up again.

Oh, I could go on and on, but I'd be preaching to the choir.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Right on the money, Ken. Designing structures, estimating material, ordering & picking it up, gathering tools & equipment, sending out e-mail notices, coordinating food & drink, printing out sign-up sheets.... The handful of people that do all the work behind the scene are the hardest to find. I'm SO happy to finally get to actually doing the work.

I'm not even going to get into the meetings & politics of getting approvals - that's a rant for another day.


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

Around here trail maintenance is keeping ahead of the foliage so ride hard and aim for the big stuff!


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## J.D. (Jan 14, 2004)

*hahaha*



george_da_trog said:


> You know not of what you speak.


Lets see that list, junior.


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## J.D. (Jan 14, 2004)

K'Endo said:


> Finding enough organizers to do that behind-the-scenes work so that the "regulars" aren't overloaded is tough. As far as I'm concerned, someone who does that for a year (without laying a finger on a trail) is worth a dozen trail workers. In fact, that type of person will often motivate a dozen trail workers!
> 
> Kn.


All of those who I know that organize at that level dig in the dirt as well.


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## J.D. (Jan 14, 2004)

*copmoba*



filthy little monkey said:


> with the leadership of Kevin and a few other key copmoba folks, Fruita/Grand Junction will now have an official trail crew committee directing all those trail maintenance days and new trail projects.


Kevin, not copmoba.


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## bike26 (Jan 13, 2004)

I built over 10km in 02 and in 03 another 10km in the forest near my house , now evertone ueses the trail to walk down to a river


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## minkhiller (Feb 12, 2004)

*?*



radair said:


> I'll take that challenge. But maybe you should make it "at least one day". In 2003, our (very small) local advocacy group built a 50' bridge, 200' of "bog bridges", a 3/4-mile trail re-route, and did a lot of routine maintenance.


White Mountains NEMBA yes?


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## minkhiller (Feb 12, 2004)

*Get the word out.*

My local club has an e-mail list and a monthly news magazine. We get word well in advance of any trail work going on.


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## crank (Jan 26, 2004)

*murphys trail*

Ska! ... That looks like Murphys to me! I joined that club last summer and thought it was a great trail system. Joined in Aug however so I did not get to meet many members and was unable to attend both events  . I was told that the trails would still be a go, and heard they were able to or are trying to find another area to use as a parking area? Have you heard anything about that?

Somebody told me their is singletrack in arkona area, and aside from that I think we have to drive to london + to get trail networks. But hopefully murphys will stay open.

Cheers!
John


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## Curiouscaptian01 (Jan 19, 2004)

t66 said:


> If so I'm in! I can probably swing a couple on existing trails also.


I do illigal trail work almost everyday.... But I try to get out and help the legal ones too.


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## K'Endo (Dec 23, 2003)

J.D. said:


> All of those who I know that organize at that level dig in the dirt as well.


Probably true most of the time, but I know of a few exceptions. The crux of my earlier statement is that I personally think it's neither helpful nor constructive to state that digging dirt is the *only* acceptable way to help out as a mountain biker. By using the word _personally_ I'm stating that that's my opinion. You may have a different opinion, but I also think that shaming people into digging dirt as the only way to contribute will drive more potential volunteers away than it will attract.

Kn.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

*I think that's a terrible idea.*



KgB said:


> That would eliminate that problem and maybe get a few more volunteers.


Just because it happens to be the day YOU chose to do trail work doesn't mean that everyone else wants to do trailwork that day. Perhaps that day is the other guy's one day that month he would be able to ride. You'd be very self-important to think that your trail work day supersedes others' choice to ride that day instead of picking up a pulaski. Even if the maintenence day is a club activity, unless that club owns the land then they don't have the authority or or importance to close the trail to the public. Even if it were within the law to close a public trail, why should an entire trail, maybe 20, 30, or more miles, be closed so one guy or small group can work on a 1/4-mile section?

It's good you want to do trail work, but to think that an entire trail should be shut down for a day so you can do your thing is very arrogant. Do trail work but don't be high-and-mighty while doing it. The guy passing you on his bike while you're raking may have put in double the hours that you did.


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## minkhiller (Feb 12, 2004)

*Trail work closure*

Nat, while I agree that a full trail closure may not be needed I do believe that partial trail closure on a trail work day is wise. When doing trail work the first consideration should be safety of the workers and trail users. Maybe advanced notification of a partial temporary closure is in order as well as warnings on the trail the day the work is being done.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

*If you're worried about safety...*



minkhiller said:


> Nat, while I agree that a full trail closure may not be needed I do believe that partial trail closure on a trail work day is wise. When doing trail work the first consideration should be safety of the workers and trail users. Maybe advanced notification of a partial temporary closure is in order as well as warnings on the trail the day the work is being done.


If it's a singletrack then partial closure amounts to complete closure more or less, doesn't it?

How about having one of the trail volunteers posted on either end of the maintenence crew, similar to flaggers on a highway work party? They can warn oncoming riders of the crew, and you didn't have to shut down the trail.


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## minkhiller (Feb 12, 2004)

*Novel idea*

Here's a novel idea. Get off your bike walk it around the trail work being done look at the trail workers and say thanks guys keep up the good work.


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## scorcher seb (Jan 12, 2004)

Nat said:


> If it's a singletrack then partial closure amounts to complete closure more or less, doesn't it?
> 
> How about having one of the trail volunteers posted on either end of the maintenence crew, similar to flaggers on a highway work party? They can warn oncoming riders of the crew, and you didn't have to shut down the trail.


LOL. That's priceless. I'm going to suggest that at the next trail day!

In fact I think I'll circulate them this thread so that they can have a good laugh themselves.


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## minkhiller (Feb 12, 2004)

*Thanks*



scorcher seb said:


> LOL. That's priceless. I'm going to suggest that at the next trail day!
> 
> In fact I think I'll circulate them this thread so that they can have a good laugh themselves.


Thanks, some people just don't get it.


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## RuffusCorncobb (Jan 14, 2004)

Is that the bridge in conway near the canoe take out behine the police station there?
Looked familiar, I didnt bike there but last fall on one of the last warm days some freinds and I got to gether to run the conway rapids. and I took a walk up along the trail there. when I arived way earlier than everyone else.

That bridge will likely last way into the next century. I was amazed they used galvanized steel for the frame work. looking forward to riding that trail when it dries out next spring.

Thanks for your efforts they will be apreciated for generations.



radair said:


> I'll take that challenge. But maybe you should make it "at least one day". In 2003, our (very small) local advocacy group built a 50' bridge, 200' of "bog bridges", a 3/4-mile trail re-route, and did a lot of routine maintenance.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

minkhiller said:


> Here's a novel idea. Get off your bike walk it around the trail work being done look at the trail workers and say thanks guys keep up the good work.


So it's a pat on the back you want? When I've done trail maintenence I didn't care less if people thanked me, and I certainly didn't feel put out if they rode right by. That's because I was doing trail work for the trail's sake, not so I could feel good about myself. You don't get it at all.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

scorcher seb said:


> LOL. That's priceless. I'm going to suggest that at the next trail day!
> 
> In fact I think I'll circulate them this thread so that they can have a good laugh themselves.


"I think I'll circulate this thread to them." Nice english, English.


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## minkhiller (Feb 12, 2004)

*Clearly*

It has become clear to me that to engage in any further discussion with you would waste the time of the rest of the people who like to read these threads.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

*I ran into this problem this past trailwork season*



Nat said:


> Just because it happens to be the day YOU chose to do trail work doesn't mean that everyone else wants to do trailwork that day. Perhaps that day is the other guy's one day that month he would be able to ride.


Working retail this fall/winter, I always work the weekends...when everybody is out doing trailwork. Unfortunately, my local group throws a fit if someone does any work outside of regularly scheduled trailwork days. Since nobody around here does trailwork on the weekdays, I just ride.

And for the record, I did a few maintenance days last winter/spring, and I worked on a hike/horse trail in Southern Utah on National Trails Day. I was the only mt biker in attendance, and I used my mtb with the BOB to haul a cooler full of cold beverages as well as lending my experience in trail building to help make a really tight switchback negotiable for horses.

I'm moving to Okemos, MI next week, so I hope to join up with the local MMBA chapter for some maintenance.



> You'd be very self-important to think that your trail work day supersedes others' choice to ride that day instead of picking up a pulaski. Even if the maintenence day is a club activity, unless that club owns the land then they don't have the authority or or importance to close the trail to the public. Even if it were within the law to close a public trail, why should an entire trail, maybe 20, 30, or more miles, be closed so one guy or small group can work on a 1/4-mile section?
> 
> 
> > The clubs I have done work with normally post signs at either end of the work area notifying riders that they are entering a section of trail with an active work crew and to ride carefully. That along with vigilant workers who notify the rest of the crew of approaching riders keeps possible issues down to none. Yeah, it'd be great to see those riders swinging a pulaski, but it's far more constructive to say hello to them and ask them how they like the new trail/repairs/changes to the trail.
> ...


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

minkhiller said:


> It has become clear to me that to engage in any further discussion with you would waste the time of the rest of the people who like to read these threads.[/QUOTE
> 
> I win!


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

*Wierd that so many people chose to argue with this...*

You'd think the need to maintain trails would be obvious to folks who go to so much trouble to maintain their bikes. Oh well.

I'm up for the challenge. Tomorrow I go to work. Hopefully, I'll put in several more days this year.

As easy as that. (Of course, the work/ride was already planned for a while now...)


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## george_da_trog (Jul 1, 2003)

J.D. said:


> Lets see that list, junior.


Anyone who has ever stopped to help a newbie with a mechanical.
Hosting and setting up a Gathering.
Attending a Trips for Kids Charity Event.
Setting up ride clinics.
The great people who innovate new technologies.
Founding, managing, helping out bike clubs.
The guy who brings beers for everyone at the end of the ride.
Sponsoring local races/racers.
Any mom/dad that takes their kids out for a dirt ride.
The guy/girl who rides sweep to make sure everyone gets off the trail safe.
The staff of mtbr or any other bike website what brings the community together.
The bike shop that stays open past closing hours so you can make the next mornings ride.
That one rider who is faster than you that makes you ride harder because you one day want to catch and pass his ass.
Your support crew at the 24 hour race.
The people on this board who share knowledge every single day.

There are many many people who mountain biking what it is. If you can't see that, I feel sad for you. You have a lot to learn and I'm here to teach. Call me Sir and genuflect when you say that.

george


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## tboneclement (Aug 11, 2003)

go george- one more to the list making sure the dude who took a spill got back safe..hope all is good with you...trail work is great but just getting others to ride is the goal, the more people interested in mtn biking the better off we all are! george are you riding monday at los banos creek?


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## george_da_trog (Jul 1, 2003)

tboneclement said:


> are you riding monday at los banos creek?


If I go, I'm taking the single speed.

george


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## J.D. (Jan 14, 2004)

*delusional*



george_da_trog said:


> There are many many people who mountain biking what it is. If you can't see that, I feel sad for you. You have a lot to learn and I'm here to teach. Call me Sir and genuflect when you say that.
> 
> george


Your touchy-feely list is very "secondary". Without trails, there would be no mountain biking. Without the trails being built or maintained, there would be no reason for the items mentioned on your little list. If one does not give back by helping build or maintain trails, they don't deserve to ride them.

As far as you teaching me anything, that's a riot.


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## scorcher seb (Jan 12, 2004)

george_da_trog said:


> There are other ways to give back to the sport of mountainbiking besides doing trail work.
> 
> george


Err, yeah ... but this thread was quite clearly about trail work!


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## Ebo (Dec 30, 2003)

You mean the thread started that way. It has evolved into much more. There are various ways to contribute and hats off to all who do...


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## scorcher seb (Jan 12, 2004)

Nat said:


> "I think I'll circulate this thread to them." Nice english, English.


?!! 'Scuse the pun, but you're digging yourself a little deeper there!

LOL.

I've got it! Why don't we put traffic lights up instead of having flag-waving volunteers. Then the *******s who are either too stupid to see a bunch of people with shovels or too inconsiderate to get off and walk can ride through in turn with only a slight inconvenience to them and to the trail crew.


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## scorcher seb (Jan 12, 2004)

Ebo said:


> You mean the thread started that way. It has evolved into much more. There are various ways to contribute and hats off to all who do...


You're right. It was about trail work before George made his odd comment.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

scorcher seb said:


> ?!! 'Scuse the pun, but you're digging yourself a little deeper there!
> 
> LOL.
> 
> I've got it! Why don't we put traffic lights up instead of having flag-waving volunteers. Then the *******s who are either too stupid to see a bunch of people with shovels or too inconsiderate to get off and walk can ride through in turn with only a slight inconvenience to them and to the trail crew.


Now Seb, you're being just plain stupid. I never said you had to hold a flag, but rather to have someone at either end paying attention (similar to what road crews have). Take an example from NateHawk's experience in his post below. Next time you and your crew are doing trail work, realize that you're not the most important people on earth, and try being considerate enough to stop for a minute so bikers can walk or ride past.


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## J.D. (Jan 14, 2004)

*management styles*



K'Endo said:


> I also think that shaming people into digging dirt as the only way to contribute will drive more potential volunteers away than it will attract.


Call it what you will, but the bottom line is that with no trails, there would be no mountain biking. They should be ashamed of themselves if they are not helping the sport they chose to participate in. It may not be politically correct to point this out to them, but dimwits often need someone to change their 5 watt bulb to a 100 watt bulb.


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## george_da_trog (Jul 1, 2003)

J.D. said:


> Call it what you will, but the bottom line is that with no trails, there would be no mountain biking.


So, I guess if you ride other than man made singletrack you're not a mountain biker? Kind of closed mineded isn't it. I know guys who like to ride old logging roads. I guess I'll let them know that they're not one of "us".

I don't know, but I'm just not the type of guy to say "You're not a mountain biker because..." but I guess you are j.d.. So let me get this straight, if you don't do trailwork you're selfish, and if you don't ride singletrack you're not a mountain biker.

Nice view of the sport.

george


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## george_da_trog (Jul 1, 2003)

scorcher seb said:


> You're right. It was about trail work before George made his odd comment.


Actually, this is the odd comment.


> It's not about a guilt trip. It's about giving back and if one doesn't give back, they are being selfish


To say the only way to give back to the sport is through trail work, is narrow minded, arrogant, and stupid. Giving back comes in many forms.

george


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## scorcher seb (Jan 12, 2004)

george_da_trog said:


> Actually, this is the odd comment.
> 
> To say the only way to give back to the sport is through trail work, is narrow minded, arrogant, and stupid. Giving back comes in many forms.
> 
> george


But it didn't say that, did it?

And your conclusion is dramatically at odds with reality.


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## scorcher seb (Jan 12, 2004)

Nat said:


> Now Seb, you're being just plain stupid. I never said you had to hold a flag, but rather to have someone at either end paying attention (similar to what road crews have). Take an example from NateHawk's experience in his post below. Next time you and your crew are doing trail work, realize that you're not the most important people on earth, and try being considerate enough to stop for a minute so bikers can walk or ride past.


Well done, you've recognized that riders might actually walk through the work zone instead of ride. With a little more time you might start to appreciate that seeing someone digging, raking, shovelling etc on the trail ahead of you might be an indication that there is trail work going on, and that it might be considerate to slow down, dismount and walk through the area affected. That might even give the trail crew time to get out of the way and say hello. Best of all you've recognized that work on a small area of singletrack where riders have to dismount does not represent a total closure of a trail.

Now do the sport a favor - instead of coming up with an embarrassing comment about my grammar, or resorting to calling me stupid, why don't you think about what you said in your initial posts and whether it really made much sense in the context of reality.

Happy digging.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

*Sorry Seb*



scorcher seb said:


> Well done, you've recognized that riders might actually walk through the work zone instead of ride. With a little more time you might start to appreciate that seeing someone digging, raking, shovelling etc on the trail ahead of you might be an indication that there is trail work going on, and that it might be considerate to slow down, dismount and walk through the area affected. That might even give the trail crew time to get out of the way and say hello. Best of all you've recognized that work on a small area of singletrack where riders have to dismount does not represent a total closure of a trail.
> 
> Now do the sport a favor - instead of coming up with an embarrassing comment about my grammar, or resorting to calling me stupid, why don't you think about what you said in your initial posts and whether it really made much sense in the context of reality.
> 
> Happy digging.


Remember, this sub-thread started with the comment "maybe trails should be closed somehow when there's a workday." Think about it.

You make a lot of assumptions about how I proceed through work zones. You don't have enough information to make such determinations, but I know you were just trying to save face. Hey, I apologize for embarrassing you by commenting on your grammar. Given the tone of your initial post, I didn't think you'd be the sensitive type. For the record, I called your response, not you, stupid. I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings.


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## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

*closing trails on workdays*

Should not be a problem for most people IF.

workdays are scheduled in advance.
If you are involved you will know when they are,ride somewhere else.
There are other trails to ride nearby.
It's an unusually large workparty.

It's not about making others feel guilty or punishing them.
It's about making it safer and more convienent for the trail volunteer.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

At the risk of being an as$hole, I would submit that your idea of putting someone at each end to "warn oncoming riders of the crew" was the stupid comment. Consider that many crews will have 4 to 6 people working (any more and there's no room). To give up half to a third of your labor to warn riders of the obvious is ludicrous.


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## scorcher seb (Jan 12, 2004)

Nat said:


> Remember, this sub-thread started with the comment "maybe trails should be closed somehow when there's a workday." Think about it.
> 
> You make a lot of assumptions about how I proceed through work zones. You don't have enough information to make such determinations, but I know you were just trying to save face. Hey, I apologize for embarrassing you by commenting on your grammar. Given the tone of your initial post, I didn't think you'd be the sensitive type. For the record, I called your response, not you, stupid. I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings.


LOL. I must have missed your posts in the past, but certainly look forward to future installments from your fantasy world! They're inspired! You have no shame!

Thanks.


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## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

*Someone can't be that dumb to ride throught trailwork*

I have always seen people walk around when someone is doing trailwork. It just seems like the smart thing to do especially when someone is swinging a tool with an axe blade on one end. Moving rocks or maybe rebuilding that bridge you might be riding over requires walking.

Might be a new aspect of mountain biking to ride around obstacles in motion! 

Chris


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## Aussie Bob (Jan 9, 2004)

*Funny you should mention*

Just spent the weekend at a IMBA / ROMP trail building school and spent time in Henry Coe State Park working on the Anza trial Horse men trail and Spike Jones over the weekend 65 pepole showed lots got done her are some pics . It was hard work but very fullfiling.


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

For any Vancouver area people interested in getting involved in trail work, check out the North Shore Mountain Bike Association's site.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

minkhiller said:


> White Mountains NEMBA yes?


Yes, good eye!



RuffusCorncobb said:


> Is that the bridge in conway near the canoe take out behine the police station there? <snip>..... I was amazed they used galvanized steel for the frame work.


That's the one. I looked into using weathering steel, but the extra cost of galvanizing was well worth it in the long run. Seven of us built the bridge in one long day, with a little help from a crane to place the stringers. Good project, thanks for your kind words.


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## minkhiller (Feb 12, 2004)

*Good work as always up your way.*



radair said:


> Yes, good eye!
> 
> That's the one. I looked into using weathering steel, but the extra cost of galvanizing was well worth it in the long run. Seven of us built the bridge in one long day, with a little help from a crane to place the stringers. Good project, thanks for your kind words.


I spoke with you when I joined NEMBA and thought it best to belong to SCNH, look forward to doing some work with the gang up north also!


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## Old Oi Punk (Sep 8, 2003)

smilycook, I am proud of you and I second the challenge, and ask that Mt.Bikers go a step further, I have put in about 36 hours of trail work last season, so I encourage all Mt. Bikers to do at least a couple of hours, and to further the challenge, join the local Mt. Bike clubs or trail advocacy group and help to make changes in public perception of Mt. Bikers!! What have I done you ask, well besides sacrificing a lot of riding time to improve trails in my area, I am also a member of National Mt. Bike Patrol (part of IMBA), we help ALL trail users( first aid trained and phone/radio equipped) I also started our clubs (R.C. Trail Crew, rctrailcrew.org) Sprockids (18 and under) Mt. Bike club, thank God , I'll have a co-director helping me this year! It is the least I can do to help preserve the trails, good standing of Mt. Bikers and get the young'uns into a great sport, so come on folks, do SOMETHING POSITIVE to help our beloved Sport/passtime!!! Ride on, Happy Trails!!! =)


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## LakeRaven (Dec 28, 2003)

*Trail Work is fun and Theraputic*

You get to meet more mountain bikers there. You get to get dirt under your fingernails.(Tie wearing pencil pushers like me need that) You get new and or improved trail to ride. You may get a conversation with the chief advocate or land manager during the work day. There's usually a ride afterward. Bring a friend with you to a work day and you double the pleasure. I usually learn something at a work day. I usually make a new friend or aquaintence at every work day.

OK, I'll go then


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## slowride (Jan 13, 2004)

How do you figure out 1 day of work? Is it 24 hours?

I usually pick up trash on every ride... in the forest preserve where I usually ride, that can be a lot of trash (lots of beer cans and junk food wrappers). But I don't really know if it equals 24 hours of trail work.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

*How about organizers posting in the region forums?*

I remember when I started getting interested in helping it was not always easy to find out where and when the work was being done.

So if you are an organizer or at least know where to find the TM schedule for your area it would be very helpful to post over in the regional forum. I've done so and already found a few more eager volunteers and contacts at an area we are looking to get involved in.

And can we clean up this threat (post a new one maybe) thats just for the folks looking to meet the challenge? Maybe thats something for the regional boards too. People can post there to announce their intentions and get plugged in to TM in their area.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

slowride said:


> How do you figure out 1 day of work? Is it 24 hours?
> 
> I usually pick up trash on every ride... in the forest preserve where I usually ride, that can be a lot of trash (lots of beer cans and junk food wrappers). But I don't really know if it equals 24 hours of trail work.


I would define it as showing up at any one organized TM day. OTOH, some folks seem to do it independently, in which case I would define it as spending, say, an afternoon doing work instead of riding. Picking up trash in the course of your ride is nice, and the right thing to do, but it doesn't meet the "dedicated time" standard I would apply in defining the term. BUT, that's just one guy's opinion...


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## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

*wow sticky status*

I am amazed this thread has reached sticky status.

One issue with the regional forums is my state is only in the other catergory  It seems like most states have gotten there own forum or at least been grouped with other states. Unfortunatly Idaho is left out, I already suggested having a regional forum called "Enormous western states without a lot of people" to include ID, WY, MT, NV but my suggestion has not be well recieved. Wyoming and Montana might want there own forum called "Enormous western state with more cows than people."

I too pick up trash on my rides and have found most of the trash to be on dirt roads in the form of beer cans. You can fit about 5 or so beer cans in your jersey before they start to dig into your back! On the trail I find the ocassional power gel wrapper.

Chris


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## J.D. (Jan 14, 2004)

george_da_trog said:


> So, I guess if you ride other than man made singletrack you're not a mountain biker? Kind of closed mineded isn't it. I know guys who like to ride old logging roads. I guess I'll let them know that they're not one of "us".
> 
> I don't know, but I'm just not the type of guy to say "You're not a mountain biker because..." but I guess you are j.d.. So let me get this straight, if you don't do trailwork you're selfish, and if you don't ride singletrack you're not a mountain biker.
> 
> ...


Twist it whatever way you will, but trying to put words into my mouth only makes you look even more idiotic. Thanks for the laughs.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*No....*



seely said:


> There is a difference between saying "We all should help out on trail days and need to participate more. I myself have participated in quite a few this year and was disappointed with the low turnout"
> 
> Anyone who makes a seperate paragraph to tell you that they "personally did 20 trail days" is just looking for a pat on the back. So I gave him one.


He wasn't looking for a pat on the back. He was indicating that he did his part. If he wouldn't have added this qualifier, some @sshole like yourself would have made some smartassed comment.

Again, you of all people shouldn't throw stones. Part of your paycheck is based off of volunteers performing trail maintenance. You should be buying them beer, not running them down.

Ken


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## gonzostrike (Jan 3, 2004)

*how about 50 days?*

trailwork is essential if you want to keep riding.

those who skip their local group's trail work and take it for granted, should rethink their positions.

I probably put in 50 days of trailwork last year. of course, some of that was on private land and doesn't really count toward the "challenge" but who cares? I think we have to give back AT LEAST as much as we get from the ride.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Jerry, I love you like a step-brother, but....*



J.D. said:


> Call it what you will, but the bottom line is that with no trails, there would be no mountain biking. They should be ashamed of themselves if they are not helping the sport they chose to participate in. It may not be politically correct to point this out to them, but dimwits often need someone to change their 5 watt bulb to a 100 watt bulb.


I don't agree with you here. Or at least I don't agree with your approach. You are of course quite correct: Without trail volunteers to build and maintain singletrack there wouldn't be trails.

Then again, without the people fighting for initial access there wouldn't be any land on which to build trails.

And without some sort of social organization or club in which to initially draw people in, there wouldn't be a renewing labor source to keep bringing people in to the fold.

The point to my rambling is that any volunteer involved in mountain biking gives back. they donate their time and efforts in a way that they can manage and is consistent with how they feel their time is most effectively used.

Every volunteer is welcome, regardless of how they contribute.

Ken


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## gonzostrike (Jan 3, 2004)

*I agree with Jerry*

...both on the trail work aspect, and on the "teaching Jerry something" aspect.

keep the rubber side down, JD!


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## Sasquatch (Dec 23, 2003)

For anyone interested in doing some trail work, The Disciples of Dirt MTB club in Eugene Oregon will be doing a 3 day trail work festival this weeeknd. Friday thru Sunday, we will be clearing trails in the Oakridge area, cleaning up the downed limbs and trees from this winters snow and ice storms. There is alot more work than we can handle, so please come out and help if you like to ride these trails. We will be meeting at The Trailhead Cafe in Oakridge each morning around 8am on friday, and 9am on saturday and sunday. Feel free to email me with any questions, or if anyone needs a ride from the Eugene area. Sasquatch

Also check out the DOD webpage on Yahoogroups. Search Disciples of Dirt in Google, and you cant miss it.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

I think there is some middle ground here. Yes, Jerry is very correct, not giving back is selfish, without trails we have nothing, and some touchy feely stuff doesn't really count.

I have had to miss lots of trail work days (but I could argue that I have put in more than most), but Jerry has benefitted from some of my "non-trail" trailwork. I helped write a grant for a parking lot, I help spearhead an advocacy group, I've fed many mountainbikers during trail days when I was not able to be digging (motherhood puts some limits on other things). However I would never put my 100 miles in a day charity rides up in place of trailwork, two very different causes, both giving back, but to two diferent communities. And I don't consider giving a tube or mechanical help to some newbie (to take mech help form me they must be a newbie!) as trailwork. Trail work is something that directly influences the use or condition of the TRAILS! ALthough I would like to also re-iterate what was mentioned before, most people pushing pens and pencils also dig in the dirt, but it if someone wants to do ALL the writing of grants, letters, organizational duties, please, by all means! I'll give you the Grand Valley Mountainbike Patrol as an example, why is it dying? Because no one wants to do the organizational hours, not because they don't want to dig, design trails, and be an on the ground advocate and helper.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

"I think we have to give back AT LEAST as much as we get from the ride."

Whoa! The benefits I get from riding are too great to be measured. I could never spend enough time working on the trail to offset that.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*I meant what you said...*



screampint said:


> I think there is some middle ground here. Yes, Jerry is very correct, not giving back is selfish, without trails we have nothing, and some touchy feely stuff doesn't really count.


I happen to agree with you and Jerry. Trailwork is the lifeblood of advocacy. The point I was trying to make is that there are other aspects of advocacy that are also important. They don't involve designing, building or maintaining trails but they contribute directly toward advocacy.

I too feel that providing someone with a tube, air, water, etc. is basically part of being a good person. I guess another way to put it is that it keeps your mtb. karma account current.

The political butt work, managing club memberships, keeping up with websites and all the other thankless, behind the scenes crap that has to take place are also very much aprt of the overall advocacy picture.

It goes back to the honey and vinegar analogy. I guess when you boil it all down, I don't really care how you contribute, I just appreciate those that do.

Ken


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## KRN (Jan 28, 2004)

smilycook said:


> Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?
> 
> I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?
> 
> Chris


 I'm new to this area so I'm still looking for people to work with I've got feelers out but no bites yet!


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## GhstRydrX (Jan 22, 2004)

*Warning Road Work Ahead*

you can get some of mayor dailys finest road crews too handle the congestion. Especially the Fat guy with the cigar hanging out of his mouth, bossing everyone around and not doing a lick of work.

Be humble with your pride man.Do your trail wor!. Your brother and sister riders will share your chores. We all have the passion, just not the same schedule.......


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Here you go...*



KRN said:


> I'm new to this area so I'm still looking for people to work with I've got feelers out but no bites yet!


http://www.imba.com/contacts/near_you/south_carolina.html#club


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## J.D. (Jan 14, 2004)

*dig*



Ken in KC said:


> The political butt work, managing club memberships, keeping up with websites and all the other thankless, behind the scenes crap that has to take place are also very much aprt of the overall advocacy picture.


I can't think of any of those types around here who don't have the occasion to dig in the dirt, or at least walk a trail to pick up garbage.

Aussie Bob's post only confirms that there are a lot of tools out there who don't give anything at all. There were 65 people at that Henry Coe work day, which I'm sure was well advertised because IMBA was there. Out of the millions of people in the Bay Area, one can only wonder whom out of those millions call themselves mountain bikers and don't do a damn thing, even down to picking up their own energy bar/gel wrappers. Those tools need to find a new fad to adulterate with their selfish presence.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Aussie Bob posted that it was a trailbuilding school, which typically has limits on number of attendees.

However, I pretty much agree with what you're saying.


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## Pete (Dec 11, 2003)

radair said:


> Aussie Bob posted that it was a trailbuilding school, which typically has limits on number of attendees.
> 
> However, I pretty much agree with what you're saying.


One issue with the trail building schools is that they oftentimes require folks to spend a day or two, midweek, ina classroom setting in order to participate on the trail work days.

Even though folks would like to come out and do the grunt work rather than the analysis, they are turned away.

There has to be some middle ground since it seems silly to be turning folks away that want to help.

p.s. With regards to the grumpy trail work crews and folks assuming that people don't do trail work just because they are riding when other folks are doing trailwork, I saw it first hand a month ago.

Trail work was happening, we were walking around/through sopts, thanking folks for their work, etc. We came to a section where two guys had humped in a wheel barrow full of gravel to fill a low spot/rut and as we came up to them one of the guys told the other one that they had left their tools at the truck. I stopped and told them that I had six guys with me why don't we just kick it in. Which we proceeded to do. We finished, thanked them, and rode on...

Not a single "hey thanks" or anything from the guys that we had just helped. Pretty tacky stuff.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*I agree 100%*



J.D. said:


> I can't think of any of those types around here who don't have the occasion to dig in the dirt, or at least walk a trail to pick up garbage.
> 
> Aussie Bob's post only confirms that there are a lot of tools out there who don't give anything at all. There were 65 people at that Henry Coe work day, which I'm sure was well advertised because IMBA was there. Out of the millions of people in the Bay Area, one can only wonder whom out of those millions call themselves mountain bikers and don't do a damn thing, even down to picking up their own energy bar/gel wrappers. Those tools need to find a new fad to adulterate with their selfish presence.


I fully agree with you. People who don't give back by performing TM or trail building are tools. They're ungrateful @ssholes who are more egocentric than most of us egocentric mountain bikers.

I guess the crux is that I haven't found that pointing out how screwed up their approach is helps them see the light. I'm not suggesting that I have the answers, because I haven't been as effective as I think I should be in reaching people but, I think bringing people in with honey is more effective than railing on them. Perhaps there's a better (different) way all together?

Keep fighting the good fight, J.D.

Ken


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Very true - I think the TB schools are great for people who will be leading crews or want to learn low-maintenance layout, but they don't work well for someone who has one weekend day to pitch in. I went to one IMBA/NEMBA 2-day school - it was excellent and mixed a little classroom time with a lot of digging and riding. I learned a lot, but would not be interested in doing another simply because it would not be good use of my time.

As for the idiots that failed to thank you guys, there's no excuse for that. For some folks, social skills would be a good topic in TB school.


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## thadthetroll (Jan 22, 2004)

*How about an "adopt a puddle"*

I like to think im doing my part by picking a couple of spots on our trails and trying to maintain just those spots---if everyone adopted a spot, just think what we could do.
Of course i just do it, instead of waiting for an Official trail day


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Mynette bats her eyelashes and asks offenders to do the right thing. I saw her flash an award winning smile and say, "Could you do me a favor, Sweety? Could you stay on the trail next time?" That's a different way.


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## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

*Maybe money talks a donation from those who don't do work*

Only 65 people for one work day in the San Francisco Area seems kind of shocking to me. Maybe those who do not do any trailwork should pay to use the trails so someone else can do the trailwork for them or maybe a trailwork donation box at the entrance to the trail would be a good start. If you can't or won't do trailwork then drop $10 in the sleeve and allow more equipment to be purchased which makes trailwork days much faster.

I will certaintly be advertising more work days this year and hope to see a turn around in the low turnout.

Chris


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## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

*You know what irks me even more*

Someone who stops and does there own trailwork in the form of making a trail easier because they can not ride the trail themselves. Or they create ride arounds to certain obstacles.

If you can't ride it get off and walk, don't make it easier.

Chris


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

smilycook said:


> Only 65 people for one work day in the San Francisco Area seems kind of shocking to me. Maybe those who do not do any trailwork should pay to use the trails so someone else can do the trailwork for them or maybe a trailwork donation box at the entrance to the trail would be a good start. If you can't or won't do trailwork then drop $10 in the sleeve and allow more equipment to be purchased which makes trailwork days much faster.
> 
> I will certaintly be advertising more work days this year and hope to see a turn around in the low turnout.
> 
> Chris


65 people! Thats huge as far as I'm concerned. Granted the local population is rather huge as well so I'm sure its just a proportionally small as it is here.

A sad fact is only a very small percent of the biking population give back to the trails in any meaningful way. Sure people do things to aid the MTB community, but the trails are what makes it real for us. There is a reason we don't spend that time on road bikes crusing the pavement. TM is seen as a 'good deed' of sorts, not the responsibility of all trails users (yes I'll go so far as to say all trail users should put in a few hours...why should it be up to a minority to make sure your trails are in good shape?)

To many mountain biking is another form of consumption. Using something for their own reasons without actually giving anything back. Nothing new to the world, its just frustrating to those trying to fight the good fight.


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## YOUR HONOR (Jan 30, 2004)

In 3 1/2 hours today walked ten miles of it doing routine stuff, marked off a new trail, made a new set of logs to hop over, and met a new MTBer--a future riding partner. And every bit of that I and others will benefit from.


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

smilycook said:


> Someone who stops and does there own trailwork in the form of making a trail easier because they can not ride the trail themselves. Or they create ride arounds to certain obstacles.
> 
> If you can't ride it get off and walk, don't make it easier.
> 
> Chris


All too common, I've had my own battles here as far as that is concerned...


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## Sasquatch (Dec 23, 2003)

Sasquatch said:


> For anyone interested in doing some trail work, The Disciples of Dirt MTB club in Eugene Oregon will be doing a 3 day trail work festival this weeeknd. Friday thru Sunday, we will be clearing trails in the Oakridge area, cleaning up the downed limbs and trees from this winters snow and ice storms. There is alot more work than we can handle, so please come out and help if you like to ride these trails. We will be meeting at The Trailhead Cafe in Oakridge each morning around 8am on friday, and 9am on saturday and sunday. Feel free to email me with any questions, or if anyone needs a ride from the Eugene area. Sasquatch
> 
> Also check out the DOD webpage on Yahoogroups. Search Disciples of Dirt in Google, and you cant miss it.


Well, we had a great turnout this weekend and were able to clear 8 different trails in the Oakridge area. 31 different people put in time to do 290 hours of trailwoprk this past weekend. Probably cleard around 40+ miles of trail. Pretty impresive. We will be doing more trailwork March 19-21 so if you missed this past weekend, try to come out for round #2. Email me for more info. Sasquatch


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## saltamonte (Feb 2, 2004)

*I will take the challenge*

I have never participated in a large group to work on trails but last year I begun a project of opening up an old trail that has become overgrown with thorns. I got about half way through and haven't been back you have inspired me to go finish the trail ( I may have to re-do some of the sections I already did since a couple months have past.) I wish I had a picture of my arms after that first work day I looked like I spent the day playing with a half dozen cats.


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## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

*we have these nasty thorn bushes also*

You might want to consider investing in a brush cutter depending on how much trail you have to clear. You can stay far enought away to avoid most of the thorns. I picked mine up at home depot for like 200 it was totaly worth it for all the time it has saved me. And the nights now living in agony from too many puncture wounds!

Maybe a sickle would work also they usually have long handles!

Chris


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## Ebo (Dec 30, 2003)

Well done...But let's also give well deserved PROP's to Greg Williams (Downieville's Yuba Expeditions), Kevin Foote's (Mtbr'sTiggerider I believe), and the 11 others who are being rocognized in this month's Mountain Bike magazine for outstanding trailblazing. Good article, although it barely scratches the surface of their dedication and efforts.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

yep, that's tigger.


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## Pete (Dec 11, 2003)

Ebo said:


> Well done...But let's also give well deserved PROP's to Greg Williams (Downieville's Yuba Expeditions), Kevin Foote's (Mtbr'sTiggerider I believe), and the 11 others who are being rocognized in this month's Mountain Bike magazine for outstanding trailblazing. Good article, although it barely scratches the surface of their dedication and efforts.


Plus, Greg and Kevin are humble, normal folks, as oppossed to apparently obssessed martyr types that one can find getting all evangelical and judgemental about trail work on internet message boards.

Neither of them like to sanitize to boot.


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## Ebo (Dec 30, 2003)

Pete said:


> Plus, Greg and Kevin are humble, normal folks, as oppossed to apparently obssessed martyr types that one kind find getting all evangelical and judgemental about trail work on internet message boards.
> 
> Neither of them like to sanitize to boot.


Couldn't agree more. I've known Greg for several years now and he is as cool as they come. As for Kevin, it was a pleasure to meet him in Downieville. His trailblazing and riding skills are remarkable. They are GODLIKE !


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## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

*Congrats to Joey*

He is certainly a nice guy and great trail builder. I got to take a class with him and also ride with him. He and Rich Edwards definatly know how to ride also.


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## Alienbri (Mar 23, 2004)

Me and my buddies found some abandoned trails with burnt couches and trash every where. So we spent about 2 hours cleaning it up, pushing brush out of the way, moving logs etc... And it is a really sweet place to get some quick riding in. I have a feeling kids are going to trash it again when they go up there to drink. So it kinda sucks to see our work go to $hit. Oh well.


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## bulC (Mar 12, 2004)

*I have no patience for stupidity*

Hezos H Christos! Close the trail? Post guards to warn riders? How about this, Riders have eyes to see and ears to hear. If they can't figure out on their own that there are a bunch of people standing in the middle of the trail with tools, they should be riding around cones in a big empty parking lot somewhere, wearing blaze orange vests.
If I was doing some trailwork and some idiot ran into me, he'd be pulling a couple feet of pulaski out of his butt.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 23, 2003)

*Oakridge, Oregon trailwork weekend April 30- May 2*

For anyone interested in doing some trail work, The Disciples of Dirt MTB club in Eugene Oregon will be doing a 3 day trail work festival this weeeknd. Friday thru Sunday, we will be clearing trails in the Oakridge area, cleaning up the downed limbs and trees from this winters snow and ice storms. There is alot more work than we can handle, so please come out and help if you like to ride these trails. We will be meeting at The Trailhead Cafe in Oakridge each morning around 8am on friday, and 9am on saturday and sunday. Feel free to email me with any questions, or if anyone needs a ride from the Eugene area. Sasquatch

Also check out the DOD webpage on Yahoogroups. Search Disciples of Dirt in Google, and you cant miss it.

Also check out the Oregon Foum for a post with lots more info
__________________


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## Redriderpro (Dec 20, 2003)

*Trailbuilding And Repair....*

We're lucky here in Central Florida. The SWAMP CLUB has a strong core group that is involved two to three times a month building or maintaining trails at the four different trail systems that we manage which totals about 150 miles of singletrack.

As for non workers out on the trails when we're working...

Most of our trails are pretty tight, so anyone wanting to get by is subject to a stop. When they stop, I tell them we're conducting a test. Ask them to hold out their hands. When they do, I insert whatever tool that I happen to be using into that hand, then confirm that they too could be part of the reason we have so many different trails to ride, because wonder of wonders, those tools fit their hands too.

Typical work days have 15 to 20 clubmembers. I think last year we were well into the 1,000s of man/woman hours for trail work.

Join us.


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## velosapiens (Mar 8, 2004)

i usually do trailwork where there's no traffic to worry about. i like to do it late afternoons when the chances of getting busted by rangers or landowners is least.


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## fred3 (Jan 12, 2004)

Probably put in more than 30 days or so. Catch me if you can.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

*Ya.*



minkhiller said:


> Here's a novel idea. Get off your bike walk it around the trail work being done look at the trail workers and say thanks guys keep up the good work.


I seccond that!


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## Wm. L. (Mar 14, 2004)

*Proof that we worked today.*



smilycook said:


> Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?
> 
> I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?
> 
> Chris


We had a small group of 5 regulars, and one first time volunteer today. Lots of progress thanks to experiences workers and a fast learner, but sad (or pathetic) considering our club has plenty of tools, 3 trail crew leaders were present, and the work days are published and advertised.

As far as the comments made on closing trails while or on work days.... We've had some new volunteers show because they saw us working or meeting. We also ride when the trails are dry and we have enough energy left, so we're not going to shoot ourselves in the foot.


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

smilycook said:


> Do one day of trailwork this year! How many of you accept the challenge?
> 
> I probably have put in about 20 days worth of trail work in 2003 how about you?
> 
> Chris


In the past year (May 1, 2003 to April 30, 2004) I put in over 105 hours of volunteer trail work, including assessment, lay out, re-route, bench cutting, grooming, maintenance, and trash pick up.

I find trail work to be very rewarding and thoroughly enjoy it.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

*Done!*



Drewdane said:


> Of course, I'd already challenged myself to do it...


Went out and hacked away at Schaeffer Farms, MD last weekend, and I've got the MORE trailwork schedule for this summer tacked up on my bulletin board for future opportunities (http://www.more-mtb.org/story.php?news_ID=211&catID=1)!

*whew* - I feel much better about myself now!


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## gabe (Mar 25, 2004)

Commitment is not knowing your committed....................


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## lifelover (Jan 23, 2004)

*Do it for you, not me.*

Don't know any of you and don't ride any of those trails. However, I would tend to agree with Nat, George and Seely, most of you guys just seemed to be looking for acknowldegement of how much YOU help this sport. I will assume that most of you a fairly young.

Please don't do any work on my behalf.

How many of you guys slow down when you are driving through a work zone on the Interstate? Do you get out, push your car and ask how you can help?


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

lifelover said:


> Don't know any of you and don't ride any of those trails. However, I would tend to agree with Nat, George and Seely, most of you guys just seemed to be looking for acknowldegement of how much YOU help this sport. I will assume that most of you a fairly young.
> 
> Please don't do any work on my behalf.
> 
> How many of you guys slow down when you are driving through a work zone on the Interstate? Do you get out, push your car and ask how you can help?


First, Poor comparison. None of the people in a work zone on the Interstates are volunteers. None of the Interstate was built for recreational purposes. It's all done with your tax dollars, or, in the case of toll roads, it's done with user fees...all usually bike government workers or contractors.

Second, without volunteers like those who posted their efforts above, we would have far fewer miles of trail. Mountain biking might not have even become an acceptable form of recreation on federal, state, and/or municipal lands without volunteers stepping forward to offer to build their own facilities. Would you rather it had been left up to the government? You'd have a 10' wide gravel, soft surface, or paved path, not beautiful sweet singletrack.
No one is asking you to kiss @$$, just acknowledge the effort. That's all.


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