# (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?



## rkappius (Jun 1, 2006)

I've seen multiple discussions of carbon 29er frames, but no such discussion of 29er rims. Current domestic carbon rims are more expensive than one of these frames. Anybody found carbon 29er clincher rims cheap?


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

there aren't any so far. i don't think we'll see any 29er carbon rims cheaper than ENVE&easton until on one manages to get their protos into production. prolly around 2015, considering how the frame has been going.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

On-One will be selling carbon rims and prebuilt wheelsets in early 2011. News article here. The complete tubeless wheelset is projected to cost a bit over $1000, in other words not too much more than a single ENVE rim. I couldn't find the pricing info on the cheaper non-tubeless rim, but IIRC it was guesstimated at around $200 a rim


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

They are here. 
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

We got some samples from another company that is not affiliated with this Ebayer. Great looking rims. It *seems* to be very high quality.


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

*Looks good*

That looks very promising indeed. Hard to tell from those photos, however the bead profile does looks suspiciously like the ETRTO (a la UST, TLR, etc.) If that were true, then they'd be even more attractive.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

I'm hoping November starts building carbon 29er wheels in addition to their road wheels (~$800 on pre-order). They've got a 29er carbon frame in the works. Wheels have got to be coming down the pipe.

There are a LOT of companies in the road scene doing the china/taiwan carbon wheel thing: boyd, williams, psimet, november, soul.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

indyfab25 said:


> They are here.
> eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
> 
> We got some samples from another company that is not affiliated with this Ebayer. Great looking rims. It *seems* to be very high quality.


These rims look promising. And at the price, almost worth building up a set just to see if they will work. Has anybody gotten a set yet?


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## joe_bloe (Nov 18, 2010)

Subscribed!


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## CYCLEJCE (Nov 2, 2010)

Did I see $165 for a set of 4?


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

No...$165 per rim.


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## Stugotz (Dec 14, 2011)

Future Reference


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## infanterene (Jul 27, 2011)

Those rims look awesome. I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

those look terrible.... the tow alignment looks almost completely random in one of the photos they chose to use to advertise the product.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

I hope your results are better than mine......


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

DeeZee said:


> I hope your results are better than mine......


Is that solely cosmetic or are there structural issues as well? Not trying to minimize anything as even cosmetic issues would result in me returning them, just trying to get a more complete picture. TIA.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Is that solely cosmetic or are there structural issues as well? Not trying to minimize anything as even cosmetic issues would result in me returning them, just trying to get a more complete picture. TIA.


Not sure. My LBS stopped building them as soon as the crack became visable


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

DeeZee said:


> Not sure. My LBS stopped building them as soon as the crack became visable


Okay, I did not realize that was a crack, it looks like a scribe line in the photo. Thanks.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

DeeZee said:


> Not sure. My LBS stopped building them as soon as the crack became visable


Are these rims from light-bicycle or another Chinesse companies? What did the company say when you showed them this pic? Very disturbing for sure.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

rocwandrer said:


> those look terrible.... the tow alignment looks almost completely random in one of the photos they chose to use to advertise the product.


I don't build wheels, could you please explain "tow alignment" and how it is off on these rims?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

DavidR1 said:


> Are these rims from light-bicycle or another Chinesse companies? What did the company say when you showed them this pic? Very disturbing for sure.


Xiamen BECS Carbon Fiber Parts Industry Co., Ltd

Same company

They refuned my $$ minus shipping.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Did it ever happen?*



boomn said:


> On-One will be selling carbon rims and prebuilt wheelsets in early 2011. News article here. The complete tubeless wheelset is projected to cost a bit over $1000, in other words not too much more than a single ENVE rim. I couldn't find the pricing info on the cheaper non-tubeless rim, but IIRC it was guesstimated at around $200 a rim


I don't see on one selling these rims or tires. Did I miss them? It is way past early 2011.

Just like Syncros was suppose to have $1400 (about) wheelset released this year too. Seemed it didn't happen either.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> Xiamen BECS Carbon Fiber Parts Industry Co., Ltd
> 
> Same company
> 
> They refuned my $$ minus shipping.


DeeZee,
Which rims were they? I've been looking at these...
Wholesale 29er rim carbon rims down hill XC & AM racing
How long ago was this? I am curious.


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

deezee, where is the crack? Those red arrows aren't pointing to any?! You should see how my Enve's look after a couple seasons of use - just like that! The stickers look bad from all the contact they've made with twigs, brush, bushes, rocks, but the rims feel smooth on the surface. The lines are below the outer layer as in they cannot be felt.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Ottoreni said:


> I don't see on one selling these rims or tires. Did I miss them? It is way past early 2011.
> 
> Just like Syncros was suppose to have $1400 (about) wheelset released this year too. Seemed it didn't happen either.


Last I knew On-One shelved their project.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Illnacord,
It looks like the crack runs along a straight line going through the spoke holes. Ugly.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Did the mechs mention the tension at at which that crack started developing?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

illnacord said:


> deezee, where is the crack? Those red arrows aren't pointing to any?! You should see how my Enve's look after a couple seasons of use - just like that! The stickers look bad from all the contact they've made with twigs, brush, bushes, rocks, but the rims feel smooth on the surface. The lines are below the outer layer as in they cannot be felt.


It happened when the LBS was lacing them.

Just as a disclaimer I don't know for 100% sure if it was the rim or the wheel builder.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

indyfab25 said:


> DeeZee,
> Which rims were they? I've been looking at these...
> Wholesale 29er rim carbon rims down hill XC & AM racing
> How long ago was this? I am curious.


No this is a different rim. It is wider and just a tad heavier.
I have been eyeing these for a few weeks&#8230;.may give them a try!


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> No this is a different rim. It is wider and just a tad heavier.
> I have been eyeing these for a few weeks&#8230;.may give them a try!


You are brave.

I believe this is the rim we have for testing. We'll see how it goes. My expectations are low.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

DavidR1 said:


> I don't build wheels, could you please explain "tow alignment" and how it is off on these rims?


This is all I could find. 
Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Glossary M

I would like to know as well.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

The cracked rim seemed to have a low spoke count? I'd always go for 32h, even if the rim is supposed to hold up with 16. If it's overkill, there's always lightweight (flexy) spokes.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Cloxxki said:


> The cracked rim seemed to have a low spoke count? I'd always go for 32h, even if the rim is supposed to hold up with 16. If it's overkill, there's always lightweight (flexy) spokes.


Nope 32 holes............


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

what this thread needs is additional data points


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Sketchy.. Carbon Rims should be able to take a higher spoke tension no?


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> Sketchy.. Carbon Rims should be able to take a higher spoke tension no?


Much, much higher. 
The Carbon Wheel Experiment: Part V- Reynolds MT29 Wheels: On Test | Twenty Nine Inches
According to Guitar Ted, Reynolds rims go from 950 - 1150 N. 
I'm picking up a set of these wheels. I'm forgoing the Chinese carbon. Not worth the risk.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

DeeZee said:


> Not sure. My LBS stopped building them as soon as the crack became visable


Although it's hard to say without seeing them in person that looks like a mold release line. The rim mold is in two halfs and they come together right down the center line of the rim. It often leads to a line or a slight ridge running right down the center of the spoke holes. It could be sanded off but cheaper manufactures won't bother. I've built close to a thousand carbon rimed wheels at this point and almost all of them have some kind of mold mark in that spot. It may well be a crack but I wouldn't throw them away until I got a second opinion.


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

I noticed this thread on weight weenies about chinese carbon rims/wheelsets.

Weight Weenies • View topic - Carbon 29er rims


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

I went ahead and ordered a set of the wider rims from light-bicycle.com. should get them in a couple weeks. We'll see how they look


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## vwn8 (Jan 15, 2009)

Ive been on my set for about 50-100miles now. Built them with AC hubs and Sapim CX-rays. Im 200-215lb and im not babying them. So far theyve been great! I have a set of AC XCs and a set of hope/stan 355s and these are easily my favorites. The ride quality is much better. They feel as stiff as anything else and theyre the lightest by quite a bit (very low 1500g range). If your on the fence about these I would say go for it!

One thing I should mention is I had mine built with the "old" layup. Im told 390g rims are the new layup. Mine are 415g.


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## Stugotz (Dec 14, 2011)

Jwiffle said:


> I went ahead and ordered a set of the wider rims from light-bicycle.com. should get them in a couple weeks. We'll see how they look


Hoping you (or someone else can answer my question) - Under Product options it lists the following:

12K
3K
UD

What is the difference between the 3? TIA!


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## vwn8 (Jan 15, 2009)

3k, 12k, UD refer to the cosmetic final wrap of carbon. Core construction is likely the same no matter which you chose. 3K is a tighter weave pattern than 12k, UD is likely what they are built with (ie, no cosmetic wrap).

Hope I understood your question correctly!


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

DavidR1 said:


> I don't build wheels, could you please explain "tow alignment" and how it is off on these rims?


I do build wheels (well, I've built about a dozen). And none of the sources I ever used when learning to build wheels (Brandt's book, Brown's site, fellow mechanics) ever mentioned "tow alignment."

I believe what he is referring to is that he doesn't trust a "cheap" carbon wheel but didn't have any reason to not to, so made something up, seeing as the term is just made up. I even did a quick google search, and the only thing I could come up with is the toe alignment of an automobile's wheels.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

yep, the three just refer to how you want the rim to look. I've attached a photo showing the three patterns. 3k is a tight weave, 12k bigger weave, UD no weave. you can also get them with or without the glossy finish.

I happened to choose 12k matte finish. Plan to build them up with some Hope hubs.

@vwn8: glad to hear yours are running well!


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

*Tow alignment: WTF?*



Jwiffle said:


> I do build wheels (well, I've built about a dozen). And none of the sources I ever used when learning to build wheels (Brandt's book, Brown's site, fellow mechanics) ever mentioned "tow alignment."
> 
> I believe what he is referring to is that he doesn't trust a "cheap" carbon wheel but didn't have any reason to not to, so made something up, seeing as the term is just made up. I even did a quick google search, and the only thing I could come up with is the toe alignment of an automobile's wheels.


Exactly. After researching tow alignment, I concluded it's the bicycle equivalent of the flux capacitor on the DeLorean.


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

Jwiffle said:


> I do build wheels (well, I've built about a dozen). And none of the sources I ever used when learning to build wheels (Brandt's book, Brown's site, fellow mechanics) ever mentioned "tow alignment."
> 
> I believe what he is referring to is that he doesn't trust a "cheap" carbon wheel but didn't have any reason to not to, so made something up, seeing as the term is just made up. I even did a quick google search, and the only thing I could come up with is the toe alignment of an automobile's wheels.





hootsmon said:


> Exactly. After researching tow alignment, I concluded it's the bicycle equivalent of the flux capacitor on the DeLorean.


Yup! I just made it up because I don't know what I'm talking about!!!! Not need to read any further in this crap I write. Or perhaps i didn't make it up and I've worked as a composites process engineer in one of the county's foremost composites research labs, but, like most engineers, "don't English real well"?

Sorry I didn't see the question sooner, or make my comment more easy to understand in the first place.

Fiberglass filaments are collected in what is traditionally called roving. Carbon fiber filaments are collected into what are traditionally called tows. So the bundles of filaments in the weave or braid used to make the rims are made up of tows.

Here is the first google result I found with what i assume is a validating explanation of tows and roving:

Fibermax Composites - TOW / YARN NOMENCLATURE AND CODING SYSTEMS

Since carbon composite is an anisotropic material (in part the reason things made with it can be so light and still function properly, the strength and stiffness can be concentrated in the correct orientation, rather than being evenly distributed in all directions in isotropic materials like metals),* the alignment of the tows is extremely important*. * If the orientation is off, more material is needed to provide the same strength and stiffness.* Alternately, if the orientation is off, and the amount of material used was calculated presuming proper alignment, the part will fail in service. If these were super heavy, they would probably be fine, but then what would be the point of using carbon. I expect, like most things out of China the quality is variable, and some of these will be fine, and others will not. Thermosetting carbon composites exhibit a brittle failure mode (that's like glass, rather than like metal). Not a good failure more for bicycle rims, in my opinion. Does that help clear things up?

Oh, and to the person who thought i was talking about automotive wheel alignment, that's toe, not tow.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

rocwandrer said:


> Yup! I just made it up because I don't know what I'm talking about!!!! Not need to read any further in this crap I write. Or perhaps i didn't make it up and I've worked as a composites process engineer in one of the county's foremost composites research labs, but, like most engineers, "don't English real well"?
> 
> Sorry I didn't see the question sooner, or make my comment more easy to understand in the first place.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I appreciate it. That top layer is simply cosmetic, however. Like a lot of carbon fiber, most of the rim is UD. Taking that into consideration, does it really matter if the cosmetic layer does not have a higher quality tow? It really only matters if the UD has the desired tow...?


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## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

vwn8 said:


> Ive been on my set for about 50-100miles now. Built them with AC hubs and Sapim CX-rays. Im 200-215lb and im not babying them. So far theyve been great! I have a set of AC XCs and a set of hope/stan 355s and these are easily my favorites. The ride quality is much better. They feel as stiff as anything else and theyre the lightest by quite a bit (very low 1500g range). If your on the fence about these I would say go for it!
> 
> One thing I should mention is I had mine built with the "old" layup. Im told 390g rims are the new layup. Mine are 415g.


Just to be clear, when you say 'my set', are you referring to the light-bicycle/Xiamen BECS rims? which version? and of course the obvious question millions are wondering -- how suitable are they for tubeless?

thanks.


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

indyfab25 said:


> Thank you. I appreciate it. That top layer is simply cosmetic, however. Like a lot of carbon fiber, most of the rim is UD. Taking that into consideration, does it really matter if the cosmetic layer does not have a higher quality tow? It really only matters if the UD has the desired tow...?


I was just talking about orientation, not the material quality. Like steel or aluminum, different grades have different properties. With carbon, not just the strength, but also the stiffness varies with the material grade. That's a whole other can of worms.

As far as orientation, like anything, the answer is "it depends." I don't know the layup schedule for the rims, so it is hard to answer for sure. Also, so many different directions I could go with how to use plain english to explain my thinking... here are a couple incomplete thoughts... Number two was what I was thinking when i made my comment.

1.) My intuition is that those tows do not look particularly spread, yet they are wide, meaning they are relatively heavy tows (I'm guessing 3k for the "cosmetic" layer in the original photos i commented on). There simply isn't any room in the total weight of a light weight rim for a cosmetic layer. The cosmetic layer also performs the function of providing some of the the needed cross direction strength and stiffness, shear reinforcement, etc. If the fibers were all uni-hoop oriented, the rim would probably crack open just from the inflation pressure of the tire.

2.) If you can't be bothered to get the cosmetic layer that shows (which is also structurally significant) reasonably well oriented on the rim you use for the promotional photos for the product, how well could you possibly have done the parts that _don't _show on the every day production unit?

3.) Since composites are anisotropic (not the same properties in all directions), symmetry is important in symmetrically stressed parts.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

rocwandrer said:


> Yup! I just made it up because I don't know what I'm talking about!!!! Not need to read any further in this crap I write. Or perhaps i didn't make it up and I've worked as a composites process engineer in one of the county's foremost composites research labs, but, like most engineers, "don't English real well"?
> 
> Sorry I didn't see the question sooner, or make my comment more easy to understand in the first place.
> 
> ...


I appreciate you coming back to the discussion. Those of us who don't work with carbon directly have never heard of tow alignment. And a google search for 'tow alignment' only brought up 'toe alignment' responses.  And when you made a statement without any explanation, then disappeared from the discussion, the rest of us were left to assume you were just trolling.

You're assuming the outer layer is structural. Some of the name brand carbon rims have significantly lower claimed weights, so it may be possible the outer layer is not structural, but I wouldn't actually know, just going by what you said about the need for it to be structural due to the weight.

Anyway, now that I understand that you are referring to the pattern of the weave, I can see what you are referring to in the 4th picture (I think - at least, that one seems to have a somewhat strange pattern).

Guess I'll find out how well they hold up. They offer a year warranty. And as cheap as they are, I figure they're worth a shot.


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## joe_bloe (Nov 18, 2010)

*Does this qualify for an "Oh Snap?"*



rocwandrer said:


> Yup! I just made it up because I don't know what I'm talking about!!!! Not need to read any further in this crap I write. Or perhaps i didn't make it up and I've worked as a composites process engineer in one of the county's foremost composites research labs, but, like most engineers, "don't English real well"?












Why yes, I believe it does!


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

rocwandrer said:


> I was just talking about orientation, not the material quality. Like steel or aluminum, different grades have different properties. With carbon, not just the strength, but also the stiffness varies with the material grade. That's a whole other can of worms.
> 
> As far as orientation, like anything, the answer is "it depends." I don't know the layup schedule for the rims, so it is hard to answer for sure. Also, so many different directions I could go with how to use plain english to explain my thinking... here are a couple incomplete thoughts... Number two was what I was thinking when i made my comment.
> 
> ...


The carbon is Toray 800 which is somewhere on the higher end of the grades from what I have researched. Please correct me if I am wrong. If the UD rims are completely UD including the cosmetic layer, and the carbon is Toray 800, seems like a quality rim with regard to material used. Is there a tow to UD?


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

indyfab25 said:


> The carbon is Toray 800 which is somewhere on the higher end of the grades from what I have researched. Please correct me if I am wrong. If the UD rims are completely UD including the cosmetic layer, and the carbon is Toray 800, seems like a quality rim with regard to material used. Is there a tow to UD?


Toray is a reputable manufacturer of carbon fiber, and T800 is a high grade product. I know nothing about the manufacturer of the rims and don't want to imply I have any special insider info, but it is suspect that they call out T800 as the material... So far as i know, T800 is a bit hard to get your hands on now as Boeing is snapping it all up. It also only comes in 6k and 12k tows, so far as I know.

As far as "is there a tow to UD?" I don't understand the question.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

rocwandrer said:


> Toray is a reputable manufacturer of carbon fiber, and T800 is a high grade product. I know nothing about the manufacturer of the rims and don't want to imply I have any special insider info, but it is suspect that they call out T800 as the material... So far as i know, T800 is a bit hard to get your hands on now as Boeing is snapping it all up. It also only comes in 6k and 12k tows, so far as I know.
> 
> As far as "is there a tow to UD?" I don't understand the question.


Is there a tow to UD? You mentioned the tow was off in one of the pics. Does UD have tow? If it is off, how do you tell? It doesn't look like UD has a tow size, but it has to.

They call the material T800. I have seen this and other manufacturers use that terminology(Toray800 and T800) interchangeably.

Toray Carbon Fibers America - Application Information
Lots of cool info there. I just learned a bunch.


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

indyfab25 said:


> Is there a tow to UD? You mentioned the tow was off in one of the pics. Does UD have tow? If it is off, how do you tell? It doesn't look like UD has a tow size, but it has to.
> 
> They call the material T800. I have seen this and other manufacturers use that terminology(Toray800 and T800) interchangeably.
> 
> ...


"Tow" is a noun meaning a bundle of filaments. UD is a noun abbreviation meaning unidirectional. unidirectional fabric is made from tows, which are by definition unidirectionally oriented. The tow size is much less important with unidirectional fabric, but still a mfg parameter.

I see you edited your reply, but if i understood correctly, the issue is that T800 is a high, not standard modulus product in Toray product nomenclature.


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

oh, and "does UD have tow?" what you really mean might be "does UD have/require alignment?" The answer is a resounding yes. And the pictures tell me nothing about the accuracy or correctness of that alignment.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

rocwandrer said:


> "Tow" is a noun meaning a bundle of filaments. UD is a noun abbreviation meaning unidirectional. unidirectional fabric is made from tows, which are by definition unidirectionally oriented. The tow size is much less important with unidirectional fabric, but still a mfg parameter.
> 
> I see you edited your reply, but if i understood correctly, the issue is that T800 is a high, not standard modulus product in Toray product nomenclature.


Okay. Tow size with UD is less important. Does that mean that UD is generally stronger, as some other carbon manufacturers report?

I did edit my reply as I was learning after the post and answering questions and learning that some of my statements were wrong.

There appears to be several variations of the T800.

Thanks again for the info. If you are getting sick of answering my questions please point me to a couple sites or places I can learn more about this.


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## dblspeed (Jan 31, 2006)

this is extremely interesting, any more hands on reports?


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

indyfab25 said:


> Okay. Tow size with UD is less important. Does that mean that UD is generally stronger, as some other carbon manufacturers report?
> 
> I did edit my reply as I was learning after the post and answering questions and learning that some of my statements were wrong.
> 
> ...


First an FYI, most composites folks say "uni" as short for unidirectional, not UD, but they are the same thing.

I'm not in the habit of looking for basic composites resources on the net, but I'll suggest:

ACMA: Technical Resources <-- lots of irrelevant stuff about regulations, business, etc, but most of the basic stuff is technically accurate, and including the link throughs, the pit of info is bottomless. Bonus, it is vetted for minimal product bias (some types more innocuous types are allowed, by rule). Many seemingly reputable sources of easy to understand technical info about composites (probably including me to some degree, if i ever manage to be easy to understand) are not totally accurate. One reason is composites are really complicated, and not easy to understand, so simplifications to make stuff easy to understand automatically seem to end up distorting the truth. The (unfortunately more common) reason is that consumers are poorly educated about composites, so marketing departments can pretty much say anything that sounds believable to make their stuff sound good.

Not really because of tow size being less important, but yes, in general a very well designed and executed unidirectional layup will dramatically outperform a very well designed woven or braided composite. Part of the reason is that on a weight basis, the fiber is more structurally efficient, and you can use less resin and more fiber with uni. Layups made from all uni also tend to be less error tolerant (design, placement, and infusion/impregnation/compaction/consolidation) though. With most consumer products, a braided or woven layer is used for cosmetics on the surface, but that layer is also very structurally useful for crack prevention and shear transfer,etc in an otherwise uni product.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Any real experiences with buildup and riding?*

I've been thinking about building up a pair of these just to see how they go. Anyone know the ERD?


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

nbwallace said:


> I've been thinking about building up a pair of these just to see how they go. Anyone know the ERD?


We measured 603.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Thanks indyfab*

I assume the build went without incident.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

nbwallace said:


> I assume the build went without incident.


No issues at all. Nice and stiff. Taped the rim, threw some sealant in, and the tire is still holding air. Tubeless was a breeze.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*That's very encouraging*

Thanks indyfab. That may make the decision to build these up a no brainer. With Stan's rims at around $90 each (maybe $85) the price is certainly reasonable. The web site makes it sound as if these rims are 75 grams lighter than the Arches. That could make for a really nice set of tubeless wheels.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

The AM 29r rim weighs around 440g. Tubeless is very good. We have a 28 hole rim here that I threw a Nobby Nic on to test without sealant. Blew up and held air no problem.
I might build a set up with I9 Enduro wheels. That would be sick.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Here is a pic of the rim bed and bead.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

indyfab25 said:


> Much, much higher.
> ...
> According to Guitar Ted, Reynolds rims go from 950 - 1150 N.


Much, much higher than what? He didn't say what tension the "crack" developed at, and 950-1150N is not high, it's average... for aluminum rims. :skep:


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Much, much higher than what? He didn't say what tension the "crack" developed at, and 950-1150N is not high, it's average... for aluminum rims. :skep:


That is a good question. Honestly, I do not know. You raise a good point. I was relying on Reynold's opinion that carbon rims can handle higher tensions. If I am not mistaken, that came from the interview on 29inches.com.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

indyfab25 said:


> The AM 29r rim weighs around 440g. Tubeless is very good. We have a 28 hole rim here that I threw a Nobby Nic on to test without sealant. Blew up and held air no problem.
> I might build a set up with I9 Enduro wheels. That would be sick.


I've checked through this thread and it wasn't totally clear to me, where did you order these rims? Thanks for the info.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

hillharman said:


> I've checked through this thread and it wasn't totally clear to me, where did you order these rims? Thanks for the info.


Xiamen BECS.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

indyfab25 said:


> Xiamen BECS.


Sorry for being dense, but is there a link where the product can be ordered? I'm not having much luck with Google.

Edit: I think I found it: bikes 29er super light rim products, buy bikes 29er super light rim products from alibaba.com


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## gridtalker (Dec 7, 2006)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Okay, I did not realize that was a crack, it looks like a scribe line in the photo. Thanks.


It doesnt look like a crack at all


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

hillharman said:


> Sorry for being dense, but is there a link where the product can be ordered? I'm not having much luck with Google.


No worries. Google Alibaba carbon 29r rim...

29er wheels 29er rim notubes(tubeless-compatible) - Detailed info for 29er wheels 29er rim notubes(tubeless-compatible),29er wheels,29er wheels 29er rim notubes(tubeless-compatible),RM29C-XC on Alibaba.com

29er wheels 29er rim notubes(tubeless-compatible) products, buy 29er wheels 29er rim notubes(tubeless-compatible) products from alibaba.com


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## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

hillharman said:


> I've checked through this thread and it wasn't totally clear to me, where did you order these rims? Thanks for the info.


looks like they making it easier to order

carbon 29er wheel mountain bike clincher - light-bicycle


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

bigdog100 said:


> looks like they making it easier to order
> 
> carbon 29er wheel mountain bike clincher - light-bicycle


I wonder if those hubs are any good. The price for the full wheelset is crazy.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Indyfab, what's the kind of spoke tension you've used for the build? The range I got from light-bicycle.com was a tad hight.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

indyfab25 said:


> That is a good question. Honestly, I do not know. You raise a good point. I was relying on Reynold's opinion that carbon rims can handle higher tensions. If I am not mistaken, that came from the interview on 29inches.com.


light-bicycle told me max spoke tension is 180 kgf. To compare, most people I know build aluminum rims to 110-120 kgf. Stans says to only take theirs to about 95-100 kgf (and that's been raised, they used to say 85-90).

I figure I'll build mine to 120-125 kgf and it should make for a nice stiff wheel, even with the low spoke count I ordered (28 hole)


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

indyfab25 said:


> The AM 29r rim weighs around 440g. Tubeless is very good. We have a 28 hole rim here that I threw a Nobby Nic on to test without sealant. Blew up and held air no problem.
> I might build a set up with I9 Enduro wheels. That would be sick.


Well, the 440g kind of sucks, since they advertise 400g +/- 10g.

But the easy tubeless is good! I take it you just ran a layer of Stan's 25mm yellow tape?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Jwiffle said:


> light-bicycle told me max spoke tension is 180 kgf. To compare, most people I know build aluminum rims to 110-120 kgf. Stans says to only take theirs to about 95-100 kgf (and that's been raised, they used to say 85-90).


All stan's did was change what used to be a range of max. tension to a fixed number. They didn't raise the max tension specs.
180 kgf is ridiculous. i'd like to see someone try that... from behind a plexiglass shield. 


Jwiffle said:


> I figure I'll build mine to 120-125 kgf and it should make for a nice stiff wheel, even with the low spoke count I ordered (28 hole)


spoke tension does not affect stiffnes.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

im thinking about a complete set with db881/882 hubs. $540 is a crazy price and those hubs seem pretty good.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> spoke tension does not affect stiffnes.


Ok, then I'll build them to 25 kgf tension, and they'll be just as stiff. 

Spoke tension, of course, is not the end-all of building a stiff wheel, but it obviously plays a roll. I haven't had an issue with stiffness with my Arches, though I built them to 90 kgf. (Stan's recommendation at the time). But spoke tension does play a part in the stiffness of the wheel. Mainly, seeing as everything I've read about carbon rims is that they build into stiff wheels, and they should be decently stiff if built to normal or slightly higher spoke tension.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

figo said:


> Indyfab, what's the kind of spoke tension you've used for the build? The range I got from light-bicycle.com was a tad hight.


A reading of 20 on the DT Swiss tensiometer.

I'm a bit new at the art of wheel building.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

This thread is about to go to shite arguing about tension. 

Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Last thing I wanted to achieve with my question is to re-open the next 1000+ post fit on a spoke tension in general. I've read many of those on this board and I kind of understand what meltingfeather is saying with the spoke tension not affecting stiffness.

The 180 kgf was what I heard from light-bikes as well and it feels high (if not ridiculous). What I was after is the kind of tension people have used to build the wheel without going to these ranges. 

I've build most of my alumium wheels (road/mtb) with 130 kgf for the drive side and NDS to get the correct dish, but on some hubs I've found the NDS to feel a bit under-tensioned. I've only build one wheel with stan's, a Arch29 and kept with the 100kgf, as it was a front wheel the difference in spoke tension between DS and NDS was a fair bit smaller.

So, on these rims, what would be reasonable tension? If the recommended 180kfg is insane and 130kgf is what many aluminium rims can take, would it be safe to go higher on these?


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## clarkalewis (Mar 2, 2004)

internal bead width listed as 23mm for 29er rim, but no such spec listed for 26" rim. anyone know? (i know this is a 29er thread, just curious)


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Jwiffle said:


> Ok, then I'll build them to 25 kgf tension, and they'll be just as stiff.


They will... until spokes go slack from a rider sitting on the bike.
Tension is where wheels get their strength (the load they can bear without spokes going slack), which is also a consideration, though a separate one.


Jwiffle said:


> But spoke tension does play a part in the stiffness of the wheel.


No it does not. For that to be true, the elasticity of the spokes would have to change with tension. It does not.
Spoke tension does change the feel of the wheel, possibly due to natural frequency, but it has no effect on stiffness.


Jwiffle said:


> Mainly, seeing as everything I've read about carbon rims is that they build into stiff wheels, and they should be decently stiff if built to normal or slightly higher spoke tension.


Carbon rims build into stiff wheels because the rims themselves are incredibly stiff. They will be stiff no matter the spoke tension you build them to or even the spoke gauge you choose. They can also handle higher tension than aluminum rims, but the "benefit" of cranking the tension stoopid high (_i.e._, 180 kgf, not saying you intended to do that, just using it as an example), has to be weighed against the negative impacts of extremely high and possibly critical stresses elsewhere in the wheel... like at the hub flanges and nipples.

Thiese exchanges where you wing it and try to call people out that actually know something aren't going so well for you. surprise... 

Thanks for the neg rep, btw. :thumbsup:

figo & Admin_X, I ain't going there. 
I build carbon mtb rims to 115-120 kgf. There is no need or benefit to going any higher. :thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

indyfab25 said:


> A reading of 20 on the DT Swiss tensiometer.
> 
> I'm a bit new at the art of wheel building.


Do you mean the Park tensiometer? or 2.0mm on the DT Swiss meter?

Also, the reading is meaningless without the spoke gauge in either case.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> They will... until spokes go slack from a rider sitting on the bike.
> Tension is where wheels get their strength (the load they can bear without spokes going slack), which is also a consideration, though a separate one.
> 
> No it does not. For that to be true, the elasticity of the spokes would have to change with tension. It does not.
> ...


I dont know if we mean different things or what by stiffness, but i know if i build a wheel to only 25 kgf, ill have no trouble mking the wheel rub the stays whenn riding, but wont have that problem building them to normal tension. And no , i did not suggest they be built to some ridiculous tension, like 180 would be. I jsaid i would build them to a normal tension of 120.

For the record, i did not neg rep you. I have never used the silly rep thing, pos or neg.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Jwiffle said:


> I dont know if we mean different things or what by stiffness, but i know if i build a wheel to only 25 kgf, ill have no trouble mking the wheel rub the stays whenn riding, but wont have that problem building them to normal tension.


Once spokes go slack, all bets are off stiffness wise, and that's what would happen to a 25 kgf wheel.


Jwiffle said:


> And no , i did not suggest they be built to some ridiculous tension, like 180 would be. I jsaid i would build them to a normal tension of 120.


We're on the same page in that regard, it just seemed like you were relating tension and wheel stiffness. Going from 100kgf to 120kgf will give you a stronger wheel, but not a stiffer one. :thumbsup:


Jwiffle said:


> For the record, i did not neg rep you. I have never used the silly rep thing, pos or neg.


consider that comment aimed at whoever did, then.


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## LowOnO2 (Nov 1, 2011)

Adim_X said:


> This thread is about to go to shite arguing about tension.


I agree. Everyone knows that nipple color is more revelant when talking about stiffness.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> We're on the same page in that regard, it just seemed like you were relating tension and wheel stiffness. Going from 100kgf to 120kgf will give you a stronger wheel, but not a stiffer one. :thumbsup:


I think our "argument" was kind of silly. In my original statement, I was responding to what tension should be used, and I mentioned I would use a normal to slightly high tension of 120-125 kgf. But I can see how you took it as relating tension and wheel stiffness. Which I was, and generally, I was wrong on that aspect. 

I went back and reread the book by Brandt and searched a couple other sites. I guess I had for some reason forgotten what I had previously learned and figured that if super-low tension would make for a super-flexy wheel, that higher tension would make it stiffer, at least to a degree. Not to mention that I have seen wheel manufacturers state that the high tensions they allow make for a stiffer wheel (Koolstof for one).

I did find a site with various tests and theories that state that spoke tension does play a role in wheel stiffness. Great wheel test - Part 3 - Stiffness | Roues Artisanales Their data asserts that "high tensioned spokes...delay the moment when the wheel loses all its stiffness." If I'm understanding them correctly, they're saying that the higher tension doesn't necessarily add stiffness, just keeps it from losing stiffness under load (i.e., keeps the side being de-tensioned under load from going slack, causing the loss in stiffness).

Brandt does recommend building wheels to just under the max tension the rim will take - but for wheel strength, not stiffness. But I'm not about to try to take a wheel up to 170+ kgf! Brandt does, though, state that spoke thickness plays a part in the stiffness of the wheel.

I think, though, that we were more in agreement overall than not. 180kgf is too high to build a wheel, and normal tension in the 120 kgf range should be fine.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

LowOnO2 said:


> I agree. Everyone knows that nipple color is more revelant when talking about stiffness.


not only stiffness but how well it holds up to certain riding. silver should be fine for xc but make sure it is red (or even better, purple) for am riding.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

LowOnO2 said:


> I agree. Everyone knows that nipple color is more revelant when talking about stiffness.


Nipple color is very relevant when accounting for stiffness.


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## 99sf (Nov 30, 2011)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Nipple color is very relevant when accounting for stiffness.


Sweet! A dick joke! This thread has come full circle now:thumbsup:


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

clarkalewis said:


> internal bead width listed as 23mm for 29er rim, but no such spec listed for 26" rim. anyone know? (i know this is a 29er thread, just curious)


It looks like the narrower 29er rim, so if it is the same size, it would be just under 21mm. (the narrower 29er rim's specs as given to me list 20.81mm). But I would send an email to light-bicycle, they'll let you know for sure.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

indyfab25 said:


> Here is a pic of the rim bed and bead.


I'm assuming that is the AM rim, correct?

That rim hook/bead looks very UST-like. Any knowledge of what the lighter XC rim looks like, bead/hook wise?


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

*Rim profiles*

In case anyone is interested, here is are the images of the rim profiles light-bicycle sent me

Standard rim:









Wider (AM) Rim:


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I'm assuming that is the AM rim, correct?
> 
> That rim hook/bead looks very UST-like. Any knowledge of what the lighter XC rim looks like, bead/hook wise?


It is what they call the AM rim. I do not know what the other rim bead looks like.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

subscribed=)


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Jwiffle said:


> In case anyone is interested, here is are the images of the rim profiles light-bicycle sent me


Ah. The "XC" rims definitely do not appear to have a "UST" profile.

The "AM" rims do, though.

Hmmm. Decisions, decisions.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Ah. The "XC" rims definitely do not appear to have a "UST" profile.
> 
> The "AM" rims do, though.
> 
> Hmmm. Decisions, decisions.


Since the weight difference is so small (at least, if the come in close to their claimed weights), it seemed a no brainer to go with the AM rims. Fat tires will work better with the wider rims. But should be easy enough to do a stan's conversion to tubeless on the xc rim.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

indyfab25 said:


> It is what they call the AM rim. I do not know what the other rim bead looks like.


Did you guy weigh the rims and wheels after you'd built them up? What spokes and hubs did you use? Any problems with th wheel builds?

How are they holding up?


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Ah. The "XC" rims definitely do not appear to have a "UST" profile.
> 
> The "AM" rims do, though.


The AM rim might look closer than the XC rim to UST, but neither rim has a UST profile.

The bead shelf diameter is the most critical dimension that plays a role in tubeless compatibility, but this is not shown in either drawing.


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## vwn8 (Jan 15, 2009)

Light Bicycle XC 29 Rims with what they told me was the 'old' slightly beefier lay-up (415g). I should add, that I used nylon strapping tape for rim strip (my usual), and got them running tubeless without any problem. 
Tires
F: Specialized S-works Ground Control 29x2.1
R: Maxxis Ikon 29x2.2
American Classic hubs. 
F: 32 hole, QR15
R: 32 hole, 142x12
Spokes: Sapim CX-Ray, 3x, all 292mm
Didnt weigh after build with Sapims. The math says high 1400's.
Im 210lbs, theyre on my Niner Rip9. I gave them another bashing the other night and all is still well!:thumbsup:


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Do you mean the Park tensiometer? or 2.0mm on the DT Swiss meter?
> 
> Also, the reading is meaningless without the spoke gauge in either case.


You are right. Park. DT Competition. Brass nips.

Would you have built them differently?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

indyfab25 said:


> Would you have built them differently?


I probably would have taken the tension a bit higher.
20 on the Park TM-1 = 94 kgf if you're using the 2.0/1.8 Comps
I'd probably go to 21.5-22.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*vwn8 can you confirm an ERD of 603mm*

I guess I could back it out of for 292mm spokes. Just too lazy. I'm considering the XC rims for a build, if I an get some hubs cheap.


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

subscribed


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Jwiffle said:


> I think our "argument" was kind of silly. In my original statement, I was responding to what tension should be used, and I mentioned I would use a normal to slightly high tension of 120-125 kgf. But I can see how you took it as relating tension and wheel stiffness. Which I was, and generally, I was wrong on that aspect.


10-4 :thumbsup:



Jwiffle said:


> I have seen wheel manufacturers state that the high tensions they allow make for a stiffer wheel (Koolstof for one).


I have also seen this error made by reps for manufacturers. unfortunate...



Jwiffle said:


> I did find a site with various tests and theories that state that spoke tension does play a role in wheel stiffness. Great wheel test - Part 3 - Stiffness | Roues Artisanales Their data asserts that "high tensioned spokes...delay the moment when the wheel loses all its stiffness." If I'm understanding them correctly, they're saying that the higher tension doesn't necessarily add stiffness, just keeps it from losing stiffness under load (i.e., keeps the side being de-tensioned under load from going slack, causing the loss in stiffness).


That's why the qualification, "as long as no spokes go slack" is usually applied to the statement that stiffness is not affected by tension.
They are clear in separating the two, but I think the way that they tied them together can contribute to confusion.
Normal bike wheels are not designed to get to the point of slack spokes. They become very unstable and often buckle under that condition.



Jwiffle said:


> Brandt does, though, state that spoke thickness plays a part in the stiffness of the wheel.


Spoke gauge does affect stiffness because it affects the elasticity of the spokes.



Jwiffle said:


> I think, though, that we were more in agreement overall than not. 180kgf is too high to build a wheel, and normal tension in the 120 kgf range should be fine.


agreed.


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## Cantbeataktm (Jun 26, 2007)

I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Cantbeataktm said:


> I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.


Whoa, that's light. And quite a difference from indyfab's 440g.

Let us know how they do! I'm still waiting on mine.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Cantbeataktm said:


> I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.


Interesting weight difference, what kind of finish did you get?


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## ne_dan (Mar 19, 2007)

Cantbeataktm said:


> I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.


Can you get a picture of the 2 next to each other?


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## mvi (Jan 15, 2004)

Quote "Spoke gauge does affect stiffness because it affects the elasticity of the spokes."
I understand where you're coming from and appreciate your posts.
Any idea though why the wheels in Paris Roubaix supposedly are laced at a low tension?
Probably the hardest stressed wheels in racing and I'm sure the spokes would almost go slack on the cobbles. (1 day wheels until the next year).


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## Brisco Dog (Nov 5, 2009)

Cantbeataktm said:


> I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.


How long did they take to arrive? Are you setting them up tubeless?


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Would love to see pictures of some of the wheel builds you guys have done.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Jwiffle said:


> Whoa, that's light. And quite a difference from indyfab's 440g.
> 
> Let us know how they do! I'm still waiting on mine.


No kidding. That is cool.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

mvi said:


> Quote "Spoke gauge does affect stiffness because it affects the elasticity of the spokes."
> I understand where you're coming from and appreciate your posts.
> Any idea though why the wheels in Paris Roubaix supposedly are laced at a low tension?
> Probably the hardest stressed wheels in racing and I'm sure the spokes would almost go slack on the cobbles. (1 day wheels until the next year).


Hmm, never heard of that... but I speculate it might be something like this:

I always got the impression that wheels with higher spoke tension seems to transmit (or cause) more high-frequency vibrations, giving you the "feeling" that you're hitting objects harder. This can be wrongly interpreted as a stiffer wheel. For the cobblestones of Paris Roubaix, this kind of vibration or resonance is highly unwanted, and as wheel longevity is not that important, they might just lower tension.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Cantbeataktm said:


> I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.


please let us know how these wheels are doing. I have a set of the carbon Rovals on order, scheduled to ship late Feb and am tempted to cancel that order and build up a set of these to try instead. 
Do you know the weight of your wheels?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mvi said:


> I understand where you're coming from and appreciate your posts.
> Any idea though why the wheels in Paris Roubaix supposedly are laced at a low tension?


I've never heard that either and I don't believe it. There are a lot of things that "supposedly" happen that don't make any sense.
One explanation could be that teams tend to use higher spoke counts on Roubaix wheels, which drives down the required tension, but that's not what it sounds like you said at all.


mvi said:


> Probably the hardest stressed wheels in racing and I'm sure the spokes would almost go slack on the cobbles. (1 day wheels until the next year).


lol - they are one day wheels... no next year about it.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Our test set was having a bit of trouble tubeless so I threw a Bontrager Rythm rim strip on the 28 hole rim we have. It fit perfectly. I see no reason the rims would be bombproof tubeless with that strip.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

indyfab25 said:


> Our test set was having a bit of trouble tubeless so I threw a Bontrager Rythm rim strip on the 28 hole rim we have. It fit perfectly. I see no reason the rims would be bombproof tubeless with that strip.


Did it burp in the corners? Or lose air?


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

two-one said:


> Did it burp in the corners? Or lose air?


No idea. Our "tester" isn't really saying much about it. He seems to not want to share information and perception about them. Kind of defeats the purpose of being a "tester." :madman:


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

indyfab25 said:


> No idea. Our "tester" isn't really saying much about it. He seems to not want to share information and perception about them. Kind of defeats the purpose of being a "tester." :madman:


If you can manage to get some details out of your "tester," we'd appreciate it! What tires, what pressures? Sounds like you had it initially sealed? problem was when riding?

I'm hoping to just be able to use just some of Stan's 25mm yellow tape rather than having to use a strip.

Thanks!


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## mudncrud (May 6, 2010)

I volunteer to be a tester. I will talk till you tell me to shut up. email, fax, text messages. Feedback I will give you feedback....



indyfab25 said:


> No idea. Our "tester" isn't really saying much about it. He seems to not want to share information and perception about them. Kind of defeats the purpose of being a "tester." :madman:


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## Cantbeataktm (Jun 26, 2007)

I will post pictures once they are built. I got the matte finish. She sent them out on a Friday, and i recieved them the following Wednesday. Full replacement warranty is good for a year.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> I've never heard that either and I don't believe it. There are a lot of things that "supposedly" happen that don't make any sense.
> One explanation could be that teams tend to use higher spoke counts on Roubaix wheels, which drives down the required tension, but that's not what it sounds like you said at all.
> 
> lol - they are one day wheels... no next year about it.


I've heard of the practice, supposedly softer tension on the wheels makes the ride more comfortable. Brandt explains in his book that soft tensioning the wheels doesn't affect their comfort, just makes them weaker. But as we know, misconceptions die hard, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're were a few mechanics or racers soft-spoking the wheels. ('course, maybe that helps explain some of the carnage?)


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## Rhys05 (Jul 14, 2010)

Anyone that ordered the "wider" version of the carbon rims from Light-Bicycle have the effective rim diameter dimensions handy?


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

this thread needs some pictures


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## Rhys05 (Jul 14, 2010)

I Agree! ^


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Yes please ^^^


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Jwiffle said:


> If you can manage to get some details out of your "tester," we'd appreciate it! What tires, what pressures? Sounds like you had it initially sealed? problem was when riding?
> 
> I'm hoping to just be able to use just some of Stan's 25mm yellow tape rather than having to use a strip.
> 
> Thanks!


Had the Hans Damp PSC blow off the rear rim last night. Taped up and that was it. I installed this Nobby Nic two days ago without sealant with the Bontrager Rhythm symmetrical strip with a Stans valve. This morning I tried to get the tire to lose air. This is with less than 10psi in the tire. No air was lost when I did this. 
I understand the want for a simple tape up. I feel the strip is a bit better, easier, and more bombproof. It essentially turns the rim into a UST rim. I say essentially understanding that it is not a true UST. This test is encouraging. Snap the strip in, throw a tire on, inflate...good to go. 
Our tester "isn't the kind of rider that can tell the difference in ride quality." However, he does ride very heavy, plowing into things seemingly on purpose. Great for reliability testing, but not for ride impressions. We'll have a set soon that I can get out and ride and get back to you guys about spin up, tracking through rock gardens, vertical compliance, etc. By the way, that is old sealant from another setup.


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

@Indyfab: LOL "However, he does ride very heavy, plowing into things seemingly on purpose." That describes my riding!


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm going to buy a set of the "AM" rims next paycheck. All this reading, 6 PAGES, and there's not really very much info I'm sick of waiting I'd really like a set of ENVEs since they're tied and trued but come on... $300 for a PAIR of carbon rims is cheap enough to give it a go.


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## Stugotz (Dec 14, 2011)

Deleted


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## gcavy1 (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm going to say what I was thinking (and probably everyone else!) 
I'm tempted to get some capital, buy a bunch. Lace them, put stickers on the them and re-sell them!


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

gcavy1 said:


> I'm going to say what I was thinking (and probably everyone else!)
> I'm tempted to get some capital, buy a bunch. Lace them, put stickers on the them and re-sell them!


It certainly crossed my mind! (They'll even put your logo on them for you!)


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

What I want to know is how close to say, a Roval are they? I know ENVE, Reynolds, Easton, etc. are made in house and tested like crazy but Specialized obviously outsources theirs. Are these as good as theirs and they just mark them up or are these junk? That's what makes me hesitate. When product "A" is $800 and product "B" is $300, product "B" CAN'T be as nice! Or can it???


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> What I want to know is how close to say, a Roval are they? I know ENVE, Reynolds, Easton, etc. are made in house and tested like crazy but Specialized obviously outsources theirs. Are these as good as theirs and they just mark them up or are these junk? That's what makes me hesitate. When product "A" is $800 and product "B" is $300, product "B" CAN'T be as nice! Or can it???


I guess that's what we're all wondering. I'm going ahead and taking the chance on them.

I guess I'm looking at it this way: "When product 'A' is $800 and product 'B' is $300, is product 'A' really THAT much nicer than product 'B'"? I don't expect these to actually be as nice as Enves or even Rovals, but if they're close, and hold up under my riding (which I'm not that hard on wheels, so I expect them to), I'll be happy for the much lower price.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I just ordered a set Last years bonus randomly hit my account at 0200! I'll post pics when I get them.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> I just ordered a set Last years bonus randomly hit my account at 0200! I'll post pics when I get them.


Did you order the wide or narrow rims? I'm right on the edge of ordering a set of the wide rims.


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## Rhys05 (Jul 14, 2010)

What hubs you guys throwing on these?


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## freebiker (Mar 19, 2006)

*duh*

never mind


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I'm lookng at trying a set of these hubs
Circus Monkey HDW2 Disc Hub F 32 R 32 H 355g 6 Pawls MTB CNC 6Bolt F&R set Black | eBay


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

indyfab25 said:


> Had the Hans Damp PSC blow off the rear rim last night. Taped up and that was it. I installed this Nobby Nic two days ago without sealant with the Bontrager Rhythm symmetrical strip with a Stans valve. This morning I tried to get the tire to lose air. This is with less than 10psi in the tire. No air was lost when I did this.


Was this with the narrow or wide rim?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*Matte finish*

If you order the matt finish most likley the inside of the rim will be unfinished.

If you plan on running these tubeless with just the rim tape make sure any exposed carbon has been brushed / sprayed with epoxy. Stans etc....will cause the CF to fail.

I just ordered another pair with matte on the outside and gloss (finished) on the inside:thumbsup:


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> If you order the matt finish most likley the inside of the rim will be unfinished.
> 
> If you plan on running these tubeless with just the rim tape make sure any exposed carbon has been brushed / sprayed with epoxy. Stans etc....will cause the CF to fail.
> 
> I just ordered another pair with matte on the outside and gloss (finished) on the inside:thumbsup:


Never heard about Stan's hurting carbon. I'll send them an email, see if they can gloss the inside since I ordered matte. Thanks for the heads up


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

DeeZee said:


> If you order the matt finish most likley the inside of the rim will be unfinished.
> 
> If you plan on running these tubeless with just the rim tape make sure any exposed carbon has been brushed / sprayed with epoxy. Stans etc....will cause the CF to fail.
> 
> I just ordered another pair with matte on the outside and gloss (finished) on the inside:thumbsup:


Thanks for the tip on the finish options.
I'm ready to order same, but not sure about spoke count. I'm 210 and with normal wheel I would 32, but is it really important with carbon rim ?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I bought the wide, matte, UD finish...

Going to throw a DT 240s on the rear and American Classic 15mm thru axle front. If you buy light rims you have to go with light hubs Probably Sapim CX Ray spokes...


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Surfdog93 said:


> Thanks for the tip on the finish options.
> I'm ready to order same, but not sure about spoke count. I'm 210 and with normal wheel I would 32, but is it really important with carbon rim ?


I would still use 32 spokes.


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## dookiedoodle (Jan 28, 2012)

Can anyone actually riding these Light-Bicycle Carbon rims comment on the durability? I have read posts from Haven Carbon owners of how bombproof their rims are, bike falls off a car at 70MPH, pinch flatted tubeless, etc. without any rim damage. Any similar stories?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*Tire mounted*

Tire when on just like on my old Stan's flow rims...........


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Looooong time ago 'soft spoking' was believed to give a more compliant ride.

Not so much...


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

I think I'm canceling my carbon Roval order and building up a set of the 28mm AM rim on some AC hubs. For the price difference it's worth the risk. 
Any pics of the UD finish other than the company pics?


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> Tire when on just like on my old Stan's flow rims...........


Ok, now how did you you just order the rims 10 hours ago and now have them delivered, built, and tire mounted?


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Jwiffle said:


> Ok, now how did you you just order the rims 10 hours ago and now have them delivered, built, and tire mounted?


Oops, hit return too quickly.

Nice to see they played well with the Stan's tape!


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Jwiffle said:


> Ok, now how did you you just order the rims 10 hours ago and now have them delivered, built, and tire mounted?


?

I ordered additional rims


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

DeeZee: how's the finish/quality hit you? Impressed? Not impressed? How's the confidence level? I already ordered a set so I guess I'll see for myself, just excited to know more about them


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> ?
> 
> I ordered additional rims


Did they cut a shipping break for additional rims?

We are thinking of getting a couple of pairs.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

DFYFZX said:


> DeeZee: how's the finish/quality hit you? Impressed? Not impressed? How's the confidence level? I already ordered a set so I guess I'll see for myself, just excited to know more about them


Per my buddy the same / better than his Rovals.

Here is a zoomed in pic


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Sweet! 

By the way, I messaged Nancy and she said she's going to get my matte/UD rims clear coated in the rim bed


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## dancruz (Mar 17, 2006)

Keep the pics and comments coming!!!...very close to pulling the trigger...


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> ?
> 
> I ordered additional rims


Sorry. I was trying to be funny. Guess I wasnt :thumbsup:


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## Moda (Mar 17, 2010)

Hmmm very tempting


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Couldn't resist, just ordered a set of wide 32h/matte/ud.


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## juansevo (Nov 3, 2005)

Jwiffle said:


> Never heard about Stan's hurting carbon. I'll send them an email, see if they can gloss the inside since I ordered matte. Thanks for the heads up


Ditto. There is absolutely no reason Stan's would hurt carbon. At all. Urban myth.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

DeeZee said:


> Per my buddy the same / better than his Rovals.
> 
> Here is a zoomed in pic


DeeZee:

Are those spokes straight gauge?

I'll be going to Revo route; just trying to figure out how much these things will weigh with DT 240s 10mm hub, Revolutions, etc.

Thanks!

(I'm planning on ~400g rim, 280g+/- for the hub, and 125g for the spokes/nips, 25g or so for tape and valve. 830g total.)


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> DeeZee:
> 
> Are those spokes straight gauge?
> 
> ...


DT straight gauge with alloy nipples


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## anomaly (Jun 18, 2007)

Why in gods name would you use straight gauge spokes?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

anomaly said:


> Why in gods name would you use straight gauge spokes?


Just checked my invoice and the work order indicates DB spokes:madman:

The shop has some explaining to do........I need to pay closer attention to these things.


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## ang (Nov 25, 2010)

Subscribed.

Greetings from Hong Kong, looking for more info for 29er carbon rims.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> Just checked my invoice and the work order indicates DB spokes:madman:
> 
> The shop has some explaining to do........I need to pay closer attention to these things.


Not by any chance the same lbs of the previous build with the cracked rim was it?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

For the guys that have recieved rims in the states, how long did it take for them to arrive once they shipped?

I don't see any reason why tire sealant would degrade the carbon/epoxy matrix, but I've got a few contacts that are M&P composites experts that will verify.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

figo said:


> Not by any chance the same lbs of the previous build with the cracked rim was it?


No another mental giant

Coincidence or are most bicycle mechanics dopes?


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> No another mental giant
> 
> Coincidence or are most bicycle mechanics dopes?


There must be many good places out there, but I started building my own wheels when I found out a highly recommended local wheelbuilder had used loctite on my wheelset 12 years ago :madman:


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

figo said:


> There must be many good places out there, but I started building my own wheels when I found out a highly recommended local wheelbuilder had used loctite on my wheelset 12 years ago :madman:


I am almost there.........I do everything else except wheels. Rebuild hubs etc..


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## viccoastal (Sep 18, 2005)

Can these rims be built with I9 hubs and spokes?

Thanks


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> No another mental giant
> 
> Coincidence or are most bicycle mechanics dopes?


I'm admittedly biased, but some of the smartest people I know I've worked with in the bike industry.
That being said, since the majority of people I've met are not very smart, so by extension, most bike mechanics are probably not the top of the heap either.
Back to the topic at hand, I'm almost curious enough about these to order a set and do some "destruction testing" on them under one of our, um, less graceful customers at the shop.

Los


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Btw, although they don't have anything listed on their website under carbon handlebars (it says site under construction), they apparently do have some available. I emailed about them, and Nancy sent me pics of 4 different models: a riser (about 1.5 - 2 inch), a flat bar, and two styles of stem/bar combos. I asked about the widths of the flat bar, but they don't make them as wide as I was looking for, so I passed on them (they only make the flat bar up to 660mm wide, not sure about the riser or other bars).


----------



## DaGoat (Sep 1, 2008)

rocwandrer said:


> "Tow" is a noun meaning a bundle of filaments. UD is a noun abbreviation meaning unidirectional. unidirectional fabric is made from tows, which are by definition unidirectionally oriented. The tow size is much less important with unidirectional fabric, but still a mfg parameter.
> 
> I see you edited your reply, but if i understood correctly, the issue is that T800 is a high, not standard modulus product in Toray product nomenclature.


Bump +1 to you Roc on da Rep and to subscrib! God I love this type of detailed Tech Discussion! :thumbsup:


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

sslos said:


> I'm admittedly biased, but some of the smartest people I know I've worked with in the bike industry.
> That being said, since the majority of people I've met are not very smart, so by extension, most bike mechanics are probably not the top of the heap either.
> Back to the topic at hand, I'm almost curious enough about these to order a set and do some "destruction testing" on them under one of our, um, less graceful customers at the shop.
> 
> Los


You are right and in this case I AM THE DOPE.

After careful review the spokes are DB

2.0 x 1.8 DT Swiss

My mistake was the last DB wheelset I had were Wheel Smith and has a more noticeable step down. These are more gradual.....

My apologies


----------



## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

This is a very interesting thread I think worth following.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

so where is the best place to order wide rims in 32h?


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

DeeZee said:


> No another mental giant
> 
> Coincidence or are most bicycle mechanics dopes?


The ones I have come across are dopes. The thing is, they think they know everything, and seem to have a "holier than thou" attitude. I would love noting more than to support any LBS, if there was one adequate and competent.

I'm in the same boat, building wheels is the only thing I don't do. I have the tools, have tried a couple times, but not quite there yet.

Also, thanks for the info and pics of the rims


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> so where is the best place to order wide rims in 32h?


just go straight to their website light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike When I ordered a week or so ago, they were still working on the website ordering process, but you just send Nancy an email and she'll take care of you.


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## RFXR (Dec 19, 2003)

Anyone know the ERD on the XC or AM rims? I tried emailing light-bicycle and never heard back. Also, will these work with I9 spokes?


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## 7HVN (Jun 25, 2004)

Anybody get complete wheelset?

Wide cabon hoops, Novatec hubs, and Pillar spokes?

might be worth a try.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

RFXR said:


> Anyone know the ERD on the XC or AM rims? I tried emailing light-bicycle and never heard back. Also, will these work with I9 spokes?


I was told the ERD on the AM version I ordered was 603. Don't know about the XC...


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Just ordered a pair. 3K, matte, 32 hole. Building them on AC hubs with DT Supercomps. Can't wait!


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> I was told the ERD on the AM version I ordered was 603. Don't know about the XC...


I was told 602 on am rims, but i imagine either number will work.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Jwiffle said:


> I was told 602 on am rims, but i imagine either number will work.


Confirmed. Just got an email from Nancy this morning.

ERD AM - 602
Max spoke tension - 180 kgf

I also heard back from my M&P contact. There is no reason why tire sealant would degrade the carbon/epoxy of these rims.

For those who have built up these rims, how much spoke tension did you use?


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

Anyone order rims using their website? The shipping seems too low; like it did not calculate correctly.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

So has anyone taking the AM rims off 6' to flat yet?


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> So has anyone taking the AM rims off 6' to flat yet?


That is dumb on any bike.Well, trials aside.:thumbsup:


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

indyfab25 said:


> That is dumb on any bike.Well, trials aside.:thumbsup:


Ok, sorry.. 12" to a tranny.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> Ok, sorry.. 12" to a tranny.


We have a guy here that has been beating on them. He is a strong rider that rides like a bull. So far, so good.

Thanks for getting me excited by the way.


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

DeeZee said:


> Tire when on just like on my old Stan's flow rims...........


Are these the matte finish?


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> Ok, sorry.. 12" to a tranny.


I think they're doing this on "RuPaul's Drag Race."
Sorry, couldn't resist!


Los


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

*Picked up a Highball today*

Hello

Has anyone calculated the frame angles on this company's carbon fiber mtb 29er frame?

Which namebrand frame is it similar to geometry wise?

Carbon fiber hardtail 29er frame for $399! Crap, I just picked up a Highball frame today. For what I paid for the Highball frame, I could pick up this company's frame and be close to a XT level comple bike.

Any thoughts/experiences on this company's carbon fiber frame?


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

misooscar said:


> Hello
> 
> Has anyone calculated the frame angles on this company's carbon fiber mtb 29er frame?
> 
> ...


Wrong thread dude


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

mucky said:


> Wrong thread dude


Indeed. I will say that I have about 12 hours on one and it is awesome. Highball quality? Probably not.:thumbsup:


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## FiCaçador (Jan 25, 2010)

That frame is the same model as the LTK023, lots of people happy with them on the right thread.

I was interested on the complete wheelset, but for 520 USD, no way. Each rim costs 155 USD, 520-155x2=210, those Novatec hubs and pillar spokes value isn't 210 USD.


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## Stryder75 (Feb 2, 2010)

FiCaçador said:


> That frame is the same model as the LTK023, lots of people happy with them on the right thread.
> 
> I was interested on the complete wheelset, but for 520 USD, no way. Each rim costs 155 USD, 520-155x2=210, those Novatec hubs and pillar spokes value isn't 210 USD.


Well, it is pretty close
(NOVATEC D711SB D712SB DISC HUBS MTB 415g SIUPER LIGHT SHIMANO SRAM WHITE on eBay!)

Add the price of the spokes and nipples and you are pretty close to the $210 USD difference. I am not saying that the hubs are the greatest, but $520 USD for the wheelset seems to be a good deal for what you get.

I do think most in this thread though have gone the way of just buying the rims and building up with a better set of hubs and lighter Sapim CX-ray or DT revolution spokes. This is the route I am looking into with some AC hubs. Just not sure I will see that big of a difference in this versus my current set of AC 29er tubeless wheels at 1591g.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Stryder75 said:


> Well, it is pretty close
> (NOVATEC D711SB D712SB DISC HUBS MTB 415g SIUPER LIGHT SHIMANO SRAM WHITE on eBay!)
> 
> Add the price of the spokes and nipples and you are pretty close to the $210 USD difference. I am not saying that the hubs are the greatest, but $520 USD for the wheelset seems to be a good deal for what you get.
> ...


"Just not sure I will see that big of a difference in this versus my current set of AC 29er tubeless wheels at 1591g"

Weight wise I think you are right...however these rims are wide..not sure how wide your current rims are.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Stryder75 said:


> Well, it is pretty close
> (NOVATEC D711SB D712SB DISC HUBS MTB 415g SIUPER LIGHT SHIMANO SRAM WHITE on eBay!)
> 
> Add the price of the spokes and nipples and you are pretty close to the $210 USD difference. I am not saying that the hubs are the greatest, but $520 USD for the wheelset seems to be a good deal for what you get.
> .


Not to mention the cost of labor to build the wheel. $50-$70 is the goin' rate. Those hubs can't be any worse than XT hubs.
I think, if the rims are as good as people are saying, that $500 for just the rims would be a good price.


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## FiCaçador (Jan 25, 2010)

I don't have any problem with the Novatec 711/712 hubs, those are actually the hubs I'm most interested in, theres nothing better for the same price. But I Can buy them from a real shop for 90€ (about 120 USD), plus some Sapim Laser and al nipples for about 50€ (about 65 USD). Ok, the difference isn't big, but point is it could be a better deal. And adding customs charges, that difference raises.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

I haven't seen any talk about rider weight limits. Is there any?


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

FiCaçador said:


> I don't have any problem with the Novatec 711/712 hubs, those are actually the hubs I'm most interested in, theres nothing better for the same price. But I Can buy them from a real shop for 90€ (about 120 USD), plus some Sapim Laser and al nipples for about 50€ (about 65 USD). Ok, the difference isn't big, but point is it could be a better deal. And adding customs charges, that difference raises.


And if you don't build them yourself, add another $120, more if you want them built by a reputable builder. That $520 ends up being a pretty good deal.

It's going to be hard to convince anyone on this thread that the $520 price tag for these rims, built into a full wheelset, is a bad deal. Like I said, if the rims are as good as people are saying, $520 for just 2 rims is a great deal compared to $1600 for ENVE rims.


----------



## BamaCyclist (Dec 19, 2009)

Does anyone know what rim these guys are using?

Carvers/Chris King 29er Carbon wheelsets $1390 w/free shipping - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

On the bikeempowerment.com website they are selling the rim only for $220/each, but the complete wheelset is $1400, which seems like a steep markup relative to the price of the parts.


----------



## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

BamaCyclist said:


> Does anyone know what rim these guys are using?
> 
> Carvers/Chris King 29er Carbon wheelsets $1390 w/free shipping - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories
> 
> On the bikeempowerment.com website they are selling the rim only for $220/each, but the complete wheelset is $1400, which seems like a steep markup relative to the price of the parts.


The rims look the same as the Chinese ones. If the rims are $220, that price for the complete set is insane. And they're heavy to boot, 1769g.


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## FiCaçador (Jan 25, 2010)

mucky said:


> And if you don't build them yourself, add another $120, more if you want them built by a reputable builder. That $520 ends up being a pretty good deal.
> 
> It's going to be hard to convince anyone on this thread that the $520 price tag for these rims, built into a full wheelset, is a bad deal. Like I said, if the rims are as good as people are saying, $520 for just 2 rims is a great deal compared to $1600 for ENVE rims.


Those $120 may be how much you need to someone not related to selling the parts builds the wheel, usually when a store sells the wheel parts, the price added to the cost of the parts alone is almost nothing.

I also think $520 for a carbon rim wheelset is an excellent price no matter what, but $310 for a pair of carbon rims is a better deal.


----------



## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

FiCaçador said:


> Those $120 may be how much you need to someone not related to selling the parts builds the wheel, usually when a store sells the wheel parts, the price added to the cost of the parts alone is almost nothing.


What you said here makes no sense.

There isn't a shop around that will sell the parts for a wheel and build them for free. They may give you a discount, but they will still charge for the build. Like I said, here in the US, that going rate is around $50-$70 a wheel. $50, for a discount for buying the parts. Some charge more than$70 to build a wheel



FiCaçador said:


> I also think $520 for a carbon rim wheelset is an excellent price no matter what, but $310 for a pair of carbon rims is a better deal.


Your point earlier is that the $520 seemed to be too much, and you thought a better deal should be made available. Another $210 for hubs, spokes, nipples and labor for the build is just as good a deal.
You need to stop arguing this point. You are either not making sense, or you are contradicting yourself.


----------



## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> I haven't seen any talk about rider weight limits. Is there any?


I never thought to ask. But i only weigh 155, so if they cant handle my weight, they oughtn't be made. As wide as the rims are, and advertised for AM use, i imagine there is no weight limit. Send them an email if you're concerned about it.


----------



## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

My guess on no weight limit is because it depends on the spokes. I would reference other complete carbon wheel builds to get an idea and modify spoke choice to suit your own weight.


----------



## BamaCyclist (Dec 19, 2009)

mucky said:


> The rims look the same as the Chinese ones. If the rims are $220, that price for the complete set is insane. And they're heavy to boot, 1769g.


I absolutely agree, I certainly didn't feel "empowered" to buy a pair  I would really love to try a prebuilt wheelset from Light-bicycle, but the price of failure if a front rim fails is just too much of a risk for me. Maybe I'll just get a set and ride the rear only for a year and if that holds up ok, then start using the front also.


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

I emailed them about rider weight limit on the 29er wide rim, Nancy said 95kg, but they could lay the rims up for heavier riders. She recommended I get 420g rims, not sure if they just pick through their lots looking for heavier rims, or actually lay them up by customer request. I asked if they could do 440g wide rims for a Big Beautiful Rider. I'm waiting to hear back.


----------



## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

bquinn said:


> My guess on no weight limit is because it depends on the spokes. I would reference other complete carbon wheel builds to get an idea and modify spoke choice to suit your own weight.


I'm not convinced spokes can offset a weak rim, in other words, if a rim is lacking structural strength no spoke will build a great wheel, so when I build a wheel I always start with the rim. The spokes I'm using for my wheels have only been Sapim CX Rays for the last few years, on my road bike, 26er and 29er MTB and and apart from another cycling falling with his bar into my wheel or getting a thick branch in the wheel I haven't broken any spokes.

Considering 400 grams for a carbon fiber rim is not super light I think it will probably take the same kind of abuse as a 400 gram aluminium rim would take so I ordered a set of rims. Interested to see how these compare to the Arch 29 and American Classic 29er rim I've laced with CX rays as well.


----------



## FiCaçador (Jan 25, 2010)

If I were buying a wheelset at this moment, it would be this $520 one or a custom one with the same 711/712 Novatec hubs, Sapim Laser, al nipples and FRM 333 29er rims, from this shop, where the build costs, as I said, is almost nothing, and together with the hubs, spokes and nipples cost is less than $210.
As I weigh only 65 kg (143 lbs) and I'm more interested on low weight than stiffness, and also theres no customs charges on delivers within the European Union, the last option would win.
What is a good deal to someone may not be it for someone else, just as what makes sense to someone may not make sense for someone else.

Anyway, if in the future a truly lighter carbon rim became available, obviously less stiff and with a lighter rider weight limit, then I wouldn't mind how slightly better the deal could be.


----------



## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> I emailed them about rider weight limit on the 29er wide rim, Nancy said 95kg, but they could lay the rims up for heavier riders. She recommended I get 420g rims, not sure if they just pick through their lots looking for heavier rims, or actually lay them up by customer request. I asked if they could do 440g wide rims for a Big Beautiful Rider. I'm waiting to hear back.


Snowdrifter, in what weight category are you punching?


----------



## freebiker (Mar 19, 2006)

*duh*

never mind


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Do any of these companies (Rotaz, Novatec, etc) make a light 15mm hub?


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

figo said:


> Snowdrifter, in what weight category are you punching?


110kg dressed for singletrack battle. She recommended 420g rims at my weight.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> 110kg dressed for singletrack battle. She recommended 420g rims at my weight.


Thanks, good to see they can beef the rim up a bit, let us know how they hold up for you. I'll probably be fine with the standard ones at 88kg and likely dropping a few for race season, can't wait for the rims to arrive.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

DeeZee said:


> Tire when on just like on my old Stan's flow rims...........


DeeZee,
Did you build the wheels with 240s hubs front and rear?
If so, do you know what length the spokes were?

Thanks,
Matt


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

Thinking about getting the regular 29er mountain bike rims for a cross bike of mine. Do you guys think the rims would be too wide for 35-40 cross tires?


----------



## CupOfJava (Dec 1, 2008)

Where can I pick up a set of these rims?


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

EBay or light-bicycle.com


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

CupOfJava said:


> Where can I pick up a set of these rims?


the same place the other guy who asked the same question in this thread can.

the link provided in this thread:


Jwiffle said:


> just go straight to their website light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike When I ordered a week or so ago, they were still working on the website ordering process, but you just send Nancy an email and she'll take care of you.


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## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

*rim strip question*

those using the rhythm rimstip was it on the AM rim or the normal rim? ...hoping for the AM:thumbsup:


----------



## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

or, if you're in san diego and don't mind paying a slight premium to have a USA dealer. www.bikeempowerment.com

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

theHIP said:


> those using the rhythm rimstip was it on the AM rim or the normal rim? ...hoping for the AM:thumbsup:


AM rim. I last inflated the tire 6 days ago. No sealant. Tire still has air in it. Not much...but still has pressure.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> 110kg dressed for singletrack battle. She recommended 420g rims at my weight.


That is weird. The two sets we have are 440g per rim. New versions lighter?


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## DaGoat (Sep 1, 2008)

red5jedi said:


> I haven't seen any talk about rider weight limits. Is there any?


Look who's here... been waiting for you to show up! 

Thinkin' about having Dan do me a set of these for the Racer-X. See if they are a bit stiffer than the Stans Arches. I wouldn't think there are any weight restictions, but one never knows about the "weight of a bag of tea" in China.


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## BigfootDenny (Jun 1, 2004)

:idea:methinks this whole asian carbon rim market is gonna go exponential in the next few months.... 
opinions ? ....


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

BigfootDenny said:


> :idea:methinks this whole asian carbon rim market is gonna go exponential in the next few months....
> opinions ? ....


There is no doubt in my mind. I saw it coming a year and a half ago with the road rims. I was simply waiting...and waiting...and waiting...


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

As long as they hold up! For the price I'm skeptical but only some riding will tell My set should be here in a few days...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

DFYFZX said:


> As long as they hold up! For the price I'm skeptical but only some riding will tell My set should be here in a few days...


I know dozens of people who ride them on the road no problem.

Hell, I know a guy who has a business where he does nothing but import dozens of these rims, and build them up for people in any configuration they might desire.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Here's hoping they work out I'm a natural skeptic. Let's say, I expect them to work but won't be heart broken if they don't. For the price, logic says they can NOT be as good as the high end rims but the reports have all been really good


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## BamaCyclist (Dec 19, 2009)

DFYFZX said:


> Here's hoping they work out I'm a natural skeptic. Let's say, I expect them to work but won't be heart broken if they don't. For the price, logic says they can NOT be as good as the high end rims but the reports have all been really good


You may not be heartbroken if they don't work out, but you might be broken. I remember some of the pictures when the 1st gen Mavic R-Sys wheels were failing. Not pretty.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Any wheel can leave you that way. Forks break. Frames break. Stems break. Bars break. Not too worried about that. It'll happen someday to even the most engineered parts of my bike...


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm waiting on my set too... I asked to have them drilled for internal nipples, just to be on the safe side 

(also, I couldnt choose nipple color  )


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## rufio (Jul 3, 2011)

Good thread. Going to follow this and hopefully see some more wheel builds. The budget builder in me loves stuff like this. Subscribed. Keep them coming. Really diggin' the matte carbon finish.


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## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

*super excited*

i am super excited about the prospect of easy tubeless with this rim!

i too have been waiting for this to move from road to 29er width rims. i thought about trying some of the road version last year but didn't want that narrow profile. this seems perfect.



indyfab25 said:


> AM rim. I last inflated the tire 6 days ago. No sealant. Tire still has air in it. Not much...but still has pressure.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

two-one said:


> I'm waiting on my set too... I asked to have them drilled for internal nipples, just to be on the safe side
> 
> (also, I couldnt choose nipple color  )


Sounds like a good idea!


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

two-one said:


> I'm waiting on my set too... I asked to have them drilled for internal nipples, just to be on the safe side
> 
> )


Do they charge extra for this option ?


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

two-one said:


> I'm waiting on my set too... I asked to have them drilled for internal nipples, just to be on the safe side
> 
> (also, I couldnt choose nipple color  )


Is it possible to build these rims with internal nipples?


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

Was tinking of building up a set of wheels using stan's new 3.30Ti hubs but they don't sell them separate . Looking at building a race set of wheels, don't like AC rear hubs. Light-bikes list there 29er wheelset at 1460g but I assume that is 28 hole rims and I'm sure they averave around 1500g that they ship to you.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> Was tinking of building up a set of wheels using stan's new 3.30Ti hubs but they don't sell them separate .


My thoughts exactly. Wish they would start selling them.

I'm rolling the dice on a set of these. I'm not hard on freehubs, so hopefully all will turn out well.
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

for those who have built up the AM rims, what length nipples did you use? 12, 14, or 16?


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## stinkyto (Feb 17, 2010)

ktm520 said:


> My thoughts exactly. Wish they would start selling them.
> 
> I'm rolling the dice on a set of these. I'm not hard on freehubs, so hopefully all will turn out well.
> eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices


I was going to do this as well but their hub options or limited. 
I need a 20mm front and a 12x142mm rear. Anyone know if there is a company of similar quality/price out there.
I wouldn't mind the up to $250 price range fora set of hubs.


----------



## Wveddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Anyone tried the 26in version? Any idea on tubeless support on the 26in version?


----------



## gte534j (Jul 31, 2008)

FYI, Miracle Trade is now online available for chatting/ordering. 
2012 carbon frame - Detailed info for 2012 carbon frame,carbon cyclocross frame,2012 carbon frame,MT-MC053 on Alibaba.com
Mecy Lin or Jack


----------



## mattgVT (Nov 9, 2010)

stinkyto said:


> I was going to do this as well but their hub options or limited.
> I need a 20mm front and a 12x142mm rear. Anyone know if there is a company of similar quality/price out there.
> I wouldn't mind the up to $250 price range fora set of hubs.


Lightbicycle can lace the wheels to novatec d881/882 hubs which are convertible to all major axle standards front and rear, I believe. Price was still 520 for a set plus 85 shipping when they quoted me. Not sure of the quality of these hubs, very little info about them in general but I think I read that they are 24 pts of engagement per revolution, with a three pawl mech.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

DeeZee said:


> No another mental giant
> 
> Coincidence or are most bicycle mechanics dopes?


I take personal offense to that but this time, I will let it slide :thumbsup:


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

This is ridiculously awesome. My crest race wheels are a tad too flexy and these would make a great replacement. Especially since they are tubeless comparable and wider! Im going to get a set when I free up some extra money. Might be a month or so though.

Look forward to seeing more pics and reading more reviews until then! 

If they are making that AM wide rim in 380g(mentioned earlier in thread) that would be my 1st choice.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm kinda counting on a high-average 420gr, so don't get your hopes up for something weightweenyish 
Also... the burpability/tubelessness has yet to be properly proven... I ordered some thick gorilla tape, so I can do 2 layes, just in case 

The usage of the Bontrager Rim Strip might still be the best allround solution, I hope to see more experiences and pictures in the following weeks!


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

vwn8 said:


> Ive been on my set for about 50-100miles now. Built them with AC hubs and Sapim CX-rays. Im 200-215lb and im not babying them. So far theyve been great! I have a set of AC XCs and a set of hope/stan 355s and these are easily my favorites. The ride quality is much better. They feel as stiff as anything else and theyre the lightest by quite a bit (very low 1500g range). If your on the fence about these I would say go for it!
> 
> One thing I should mention is I had mine built with the "old" layup. Im told 390g rims are the new layup. Mine are 415g.


Which distributor are you referring to?

Thanks


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## AllanR (Mar 21, 2011)

Jwiffle said:


> I never thought to ask. But i only weigh 155, so if they cant handle my weight, they oughtn't be made. As wide as the rims are, and advertised for AM use, i imagine there is no weight limit. Send them an email if you're concerned about it.


I talked to an Asian rep. Over a light-bicycle.com on there chat. She said that weight limit is 95kg About 209-210 pounds.

Edit- She just told me they can make a custom rim set. At the same price for heavier riders Like my Self. But it is an extra 7 days while they build the one off set. I told them they should call it the "Special edition fatty rims"

She also told me the same company making these rims are producing parts for specialized. 
And the rims are made on an assembly line for a few different bike Mnf's. with different stickers on them. ( Maybe she will get fired after her telling me this, I dont know how much info she can tell me)



> Nancy >i see, like specialized bikes, they are made in our city also
> Nancy >we are making 1000pcs/month frames for them
> Nancy >just they have a good brand
> Allan >Wow. So these rims, are they made on the same assembly line with other major brand Carbon rims?
> ...


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

No worries. I am no weight weenie. I care much more about stiffness. Superlight, flexy stuff is only good for going in a straight line fast!

Still tuned it....


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Amazing find! I'm all ears about these right now. I was just going to sell some parts to gather cash for another Lefty. I'm tempted do do this instead after I tacoed one of my cheapo flexy pinned DT Swiss rims.

I wonder how much sideload abuse one of the AM carbon rims can take before it cracks?

(some NSFW language)






I put a another cheapo hoop on after this, but I'm worried it will go again.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

I cannot pretend that I never found the title of this thread disturbing


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

DeeZee said:


> Tire when on just like on my old Stan's flow rims...........


Went for a ride on the wheel today.......felt great.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

DaGoat said:


> Look who's here... been waiting for you to show up!
> 
> Thinkin' about having Dan do me a set of these for the Racer-X. See if they are a bit stiffer than the Stans Arches. I wouldn't think there are any weight restictions, but one never knows about the "weight of a bag of tea" in China.


Hey Dug,

I was going to order some Roval SL's but now I'm thinking of giving these a try. Just looking for some good hubs that are also light.

Thinking of getting some Extralite hubs. Rear is 168g and the front is 78g. Thinking the weelset could be under ~1350g (yes for 29er).

I gotta stop sniffing glue


----------



## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> Hey Dug,
> 
> I was going to order some Roval SL's but now I'm thinking of giving these a try. Just looking for some good hubs that are also light.
> 
> ...


Same here, ordered the rims last week and am still thinking about the Hyperlefty and the Hyperrear and build them with CXrays, can't find much information on how they hold up which is a bit worrying.


----------



## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

figo said:


> Same here, ordered the rims last week and am still thinking about the Hyperlefty and the Hyperrear and build them with CXrays, can't find much information on how they hold up which is a bit worrying.


Did you go with the AM rims? If they can find me a set at 400g I'll go with the AM rim with 28h. I'm at 190lbs but I'm no AM rider and don't jump much so they sould be fine (I hope). Did you order the hubs from Extralite or some other US retailer?


----------



## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> Did you go with the AM rims? If they can find me a set at 400g I'll go with the AM rim with 28h. I'm at 190lbs but I'm no AM rider and don't jump much so they sould be fine (I hope). Did you order the hubs from Extralite or some other US retailer?


Yeah, went for the AM rims for 2 reasons, 1; the extra width and 2; the sturdiness/rim bed profile which looked better for riding tubeless. I'm around 190lbs as well and want some solid wheels for racing.

I'll either order from Extralite direct or from r2bike (as I'm located in Europe)


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## TheRealKTrain (Jun 14, 2009)

pimpbot said:


> Amazing find! I'm all ears about these right now. I was just going to sell some parts to gather cash for another Lefty. I'm tempted do do this instead after I tacoed one of my cheapo flexy pinned DT Swiss rims.
> 
> I wonder how much sideload abuse one of the AM carbon rims can take before it cracks?
> 
> ...


Nothing says classy like tucking a T-Shirt into your bibs. I love it, and so would Gary Fisher!


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yeah, but....*



BamaCyclist said:


> You may not be heartbroken if they don't work out, but you might be broken. I remember some of the pictures when the 1st gen Mavic R-Sys wheels were failing. Not pretty.


... those failed because of the carbon spokes. Carbon rims have been around for a bit, and in general it looks as if they hold up, and are pretty tough.

I would be surprised if there was any significant difference between the high zoot name brand rims and these rims. I think the big names just mark stuff up like crazy.

I'm wondering what the story is behind the super high spoke tension. Are the rims flexy, or something? I just remember back to my BMX Flatland Freestyle days of the early 80s, and remember those ACS Z Rims? They were made of some glass composite plasticy stuff, and they were flexible enough that the spokes would work loose. I had to build mine up with stupid high spoke tension and they still worked loose. I hope the same is not going to happen here. Then again, I was building up these wheels at age 12, and was not exactly big on the details of doing it right.



TheRealKTrain said:


> Nothing says classy like tucking a T-Shirt into your bibs. I love it, and so would Gary Fisher!


I know... I've been getting a lot of shiz for that. In my defense, I was wearing a long sleeve jersey and peeled it off just before this was shot.


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

mucky said:


> Is it possible to build these rims with internal nipples?


Hmph, good point mucky... didn't think of the spacing requirement... I ordered some 9mm internal nipples, so they'll probably poke into the rimtape... but that will be 2 layers of Gorilla Tape. so it will probably be fine.
It might even build up the rim channel!


----------



## ccornacc (Mar 26, 2007)

For those who have ordered these rims. Was shipping $50 to the US? I am about ready to buy a set and wanted to confirm if that was the case.

Thanks!


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

indyfab25 said:


> That is weird. The two sets we have are 440g per rim. New versions lighter?


Nancy said they're coming in closer to 400g +/- 5g.


----------



## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

ccornacc said:


> For those who have ordered these rims. Was shipping $50 to the US? I am about ready to buy a set and wanted to confirm if that was the case.
> 
> Thanks!


I paid 60 and was told shipping was soon going up to 66, so if you get 50, you got a nice break.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

Jwiffle said:


> I paid 60 and was told shipping was soon going up to 66, so if you get 50, you got a nice break.


I paid $50 shipping, but was also charged $14.4 (4%) for the PayPal fee.


----------



## BamaCyclist (Dec 19, 2009)

pimpbot said:


> ... those failed because of the carbon spokes. Carbon rims have been around for a bit, and in general it looks as if they hold up, and are pretty tough.


I understand why those failed, I was more referring to the carnage that resulted from it. I guess I was thinking in terms of the rim completely failing, but that seems to be a pretty unlikely scenario. Most likely, I guess, they would just crack in one place or another, not completely break in half (i.e. like a bar, seatpost, or steerer tube).


----------



## ccornacc (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks! The total was $360 for both the rims and shipping, so I must have gotten lucky! Looking forward to trying these out.


----------



## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

I saw that too, but according to Nancy they only have them in 15mm front and 12mm rear. I can't find anywhere to get the adapters...



mattgVT said:


> Lightbicycle can lace the wheels to novatec d881/882 hubs which are convertible to all major axle standards front and rear, I believe. Price was still 520 for a set plus 85 shipping when they quoted me. Not sure of the quality of these hubs, very little info about them in general but I think I read that they are 24 pts of engagement per revolution, with a three pawl mech.


----------



## g3rG (Aug 29, 2009)

Will these take (tubeless) Schraeder valves? If not, how can I safely drill them out?

gerG


----------



## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

g3rG said:


> Will these take (tubeless) Schraeder valves? If not, how can I safely drill them out?
> 
> gerG


Really! ut:


----------



## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

g3rG said:


> Will these take (tubeless) Schraeder valves? If not, how can I safely drill them out?
> 
> gerG


Drill and Carbon Fiber don't go well together. Carbon Fiber is well, fibrous. If you attempt to drill it, especially attempting to bore out a molded hole, you will get through the resin and then destroy the weave. The likely outcome is that it will crack, splinter, and create a sharp serrated edge. For it to remotely work, you would need a fine and very sharp bit to cut the fiber cleanly. You might be able to reduce future damage by applying some kind of polymer or resin but the rims will probably not last long afterward.

Don't breathe the dust either. Extremely hazardous. It's like breathing fiberglass.


----------



## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

OR, when you order, tell Nancy what hole you want and she will have them made that for you.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

ccornacc said:


> Thanks! The total was $360 for both the rims and shipping, so I must have gotten lucky! Looking forward to trying these out.


You did get a break on the shipping ...guess the shipping went down instead of up with the change in shipping costs. I also paid the 4% paypal fee.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I paid Jan 28th and only paid $29.00 shipping $339.00 total...


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## DaGoat (Sep 1, 2008)

red5jedi said:


> Really! ut:


Maybe he's going to put them on a Trials bike. Trials Bikes use Schraeder Valved Tubes... something about the tubes being beefy enough to handle the abuse.

Hold it!!! Is this the guy jumping 6' to Flat off a Transvestite?


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

theHIP said:


> I saw that too, but according to Nancy they only have them in 15mm front and 12mm rear. I can't find anywhere to get the adapters...


Superstarcomponents.co.uk uses 881/882 as their Switch Evo hubs. I use them, and they are great! about 500gr/set..... SSC has all the adapters you could want.


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*Tubeless Mini RR*

Stan's tape, 1 scoop of sealant and Specialized S-works Fast Track.

No burps or leaks. Tire worked great on the wide rim. Rode it for only 12 miles or so last Sunday before the Super Bowl.

The terrain was fire road and tight single track with some small drops (nothing too technical). No big climbs or rock gardens. This is just my local trail by the house to get a feel for the bike / wheel.

This weekend I plan on riding it for a much longer distance and "more fun trial"


----------



## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

DeeZee said:


> Stan's tape, 1 scoop of sealant and Specialized S-works Fast Track.
> 
> No burps or leaks. Tire worked great on the wide rim. Rode it for only 12 miles or so last Sunday before the Super Bowl.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review and the pictures. We need more of both.


----------



## g3rG (Aug 29, 2009)

DaGoat said:


> Maybe he's going to put them on a Trials bike. Trials Bikes use Schraeder Valved Tubes... something about the tubes being beefy enough to handle the abuse.
> 
> Hold it!!! Is this the guy jumping 6' to Flat off a Transvestite?


Oh hell no. No tubes, no trials, and no transvestites. Also I think that Presta valves are a frail and finicky pita. There are much more robust Schraeder stems around, with absolutely no weight penalty.

dfyfzx - I think that is probably the best solution, but I was looking for a short-cut.

GTR-33 - I have worked with some composites, mostly ceramics. Drill was a poor choice of words on my part. I was envisioning an abrasive tool to enlarge the hole. Any guess how the manufacturer cut the holes originally? Did they seal the fiber ends to prevent crack propagation into the matrix?

gerG


----------



## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Deezee: did you weigh your rims and finished wheels?


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

bquinn said:


> Deezee: did you weigh your rims and finished wheels?


Yes pictures and weights on this thread


----------



## keeb (Sep 20, 2006)

red5jedi said:


> Really! ut:


There are still some of us left that don't prefer presta for various reasons (Ever been out in the sticks with a flat and no pump? I bet farmer Joe doesn't have a presta adapter.). It is a valid question.

Drilling would require high speed, and probably an abrasive bit, rather than a standard drill bit, sharp or not. It would still be best if it were molded in rather than drilled later to prevent higher stress concentrations on the cut edges.


----------



## gcavy1 (Oct 21, 2009)

Yeah, but rather than risk damaging a prefectly good carbon rim. Why not just buy a presta to schrader adapter for .99 cents and call it good?


----------



## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

gcavy1 said:


> Yeah, but rather than risk damaging a prefectly good carbon rim. Why not just buy a presta to schrader adapter for .99 cents and call it good?


Good observation... there ARE good reasons to drill aluminum rims. Schrader valves are burlier and last longer and the cores are available anywhere. I think that air compressor use associated with tubeless has changed the picture a bit, the removeable core presta valves are a bit wimpy and the presta chucks are high maintenance. The aluminum schrader valves don't weigh any more than presta valves and as rims get wider the size of the hole is less relevant. I have been running the 949 schraders for a year and they are a delight compared to even the mavic schrader adapted stems.


----------



## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

thanks for the heads up! that site could become an addiction



two-one said:


> Superstarcomponents.co.uk uses 881/882 as their Switch Evo hubs. I use them, and they are great! about 500gr/set..... SSC has all the adapters you could want.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Moar carbon rim talk!


----------



## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

agreed


----------



## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

I can't post images or links until I have 10 posts. Am about to eat up a few posts.

derp derp


----------



## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

hello spam protection


----------



## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

Sorry for the sloppy post. Had to get above my 10 comment limit. Long time lurker.

Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) - light-bicycle

Here's the skinny from my Q&A with the folks at the above link.

Nancy >hello, may i help you
Scott >hello - I'm interested in the wider carbon mountain 29er rims
Scott >Do I have to use special nipples or spokes with it? Will I need washers?
Nancy >no need washers
Scott >any kind of special setup at all? do you know what the torque limits are?
Nancy >yes, wait for a sec, i will ask the engineer soon
Scott >thank you
Scott >I would also like to know the max PSI these rims can hold.
Nancy >Maximum recommended tire inflation pressure: Road: 130psi; MTB: 65psi
Nancy >Maximum spoke tension recommended: 180kgf.
Scott >Thank you - that is a very high limit
Scott >Is there a functional difference between 3k and 12k fiber? I've been told it's all aesthetic
Nancy >actually, the strength is almost the same, because only the outer layer is different
Nancy >3k is stronger, but almost the same
Nancy >some customers like 12k
Scott >and UD?
Nancy >all the 3 outlook is almost the same, but 3k the best, then 12k, and then UD, but 98% customers like UD
Nancy >because the strength is almost the same
Scott >I see. Thank you.
Scott >Are the spoke holes angled?
Nancy >for MTB rims, no, for road rims, yes
Nancy >for MTB rims, they are with straight holes, and for road rims, they are with angle holes
Scott >Some companies have difficulty producing matte UD rims - can you produce matte UD rims?
Nancy >Most people order matte UD rims. There is no problem with it.
Scott >Understood - Thank you. Goodbye.

Price as quoted for 2 wheels was $360 after $50 shipping


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

I would like some more average weights. Are they really around 400g? Or are they more like 440g as mentioned earlier. (bought from xaimen becs from alibaba)


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

I'd like to see more pics of these wheels built up.

Pics! Pics! Pics!


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I have a tracking #!!!


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Jan. 28th


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> I have a tracking #!!!


When did you order? I ordered feb 1st but no tracking no yet :-(


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> Jan. 28th


Cool, there is hope then ;-). Also hoping UD being weakest translates into being lightest, but that might be wishful thinking


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

figo said:


> Cool, there is hope then ;-). Also hoping UD being weakest translates into being lightest, but that might be wishful thinking


I sincerely don't think there's anything to worry about on that front. The finish is basically just aesthetic. To say there's "no" difference between them wouldn't be accurate, but I think "negligible" would probably be a word to slide in there somehow. Like, "the strength differences between the 3 outlooks is negligible. It's all UD under the hood - the top layer is applied for aesthetic purposes only".


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

tehschkott said:


> I sincerely don't think there's anything to worry about on that front. The finish is basically just aesthetic. To say there's "no" difference between them wouldn't be accurate, but I think "negligible" would probably be a word to slide in there somehow. Like, "the strength differences between the 3 outlooks is negligible. It's all UD under the hood - the top layer is applied for aesthetic purposes only".


That's exactly how I thought it to be after reading quite a bit about carbon wheels. Then again, I agree at best/worst is a marginal difference but still surprising to them making that kind of statement. My Tallboy is AD as well, and it has been great, so I'm not worrying :-D


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

I want to order these, but I want to see some pics of the UD matte finish.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

tehschkott said:


> I sincerely don't think there's anything to worry about on that front. The finish is basically just aesthetic. To say there's "no" difference between them wouldn't be accurate, but I think "negligible" would probably be a word to slide in there somehow. Like, "the strength differences between the 3 outlooks is negligible. It's all UD under the hood - the top layer is applied for aesthetic purposes only".


Yep, I agree.

I ordered on Jan 29 and Nancy said she would be sending a tracking number today. A little bit longer than the original 7 days for manufacture quote, but no worries.

I had asked to keep the rim bed unfinished and Nancy kept to that promise to the affect that it ended up costing an extra day. They sprayed the matte finish on the rim bed and she had them sand it off, lol. I told her not to worry about it, but it was too late. Communication on Nancy's part has been excellent.


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## ccornacc (Mar 26, 2007)

ktm520, Why did you keep the rim beed unfinished? I thought I read elsewhere in the post, that finishing the bead was preferred?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

figo said:


> That's exactly how I thought it to be after reading quite a bit about carbon wheels. Then again, I agree at best/worst is a marginal difference but still surprising to them making that kind of statement. My Tallboy is AD as well, and it has been great, so I'm not worrying :-D


You have to realize that she is regurgitating what the engineers tell her and then there is the language barrier. I took that as a very, very weak statement. A lot of the name brand carbon rim makers use a UD finish, Reynolds and Enve to name a few.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

ccornacc said:


> ktm520, Why did you keep the rim beed unfinished? I thought I read elsewhere in the post, that finishing the bead was preferred?


Well, what I specifically told her was that I did not want extra clear coat on the rim bed as some folks had been asking for and that their standard process would suffice. I don't have the rims yet, so I don't know exactly what they did. Other than weight, it wouldn't make a difference either way.

Someone posted that tubelss sealant will degrade the carbon/epoxy matrix, but there is no truth to this. Another case of forum misinformation.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

My rims should be here early next week. Got the hubs and spokes ready for my guy at the LBS to lace up.
Will post up weights/pics when rims arrive and after wheels are built.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> You have to realize that she is regurgitating what the engineers tell her and then there is the language barrier. I took that as a very, very weak statement. A lot of the name brand carbon rim makers use a UD finish, Reynolds and Enve to name a few.


I find the companies that DO NOT use UD are harder to find. Every bar, stem, seat post and frame coming through seems to be UD.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

*Guess what came today!*

WOW, my rims shipped out Monday and arrived today!
I got the wider 29er 3K matte, weights: 382/385
Cosmetically they look perfect.
Getting them laced up this week to AC hubs and Supercomps.
Will post final weight when built


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## anomaly (Jun 18, 2007)

Very very nice.


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## rufio (Jul 3, 2011)

I second that. The more I have been following this thread the more these rims looks like something I NEED for my bike. It has gone far beyond wanting.


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

bquinn said:


> wow, my rims shipped out monday and arrived today!
> I got the wider 29er 3k matte, weights: 382/385
> cosmetically they look perfect.
> Getting them laced up this week to ac hubs and supercomps.
> Will post final weight when built


badass


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

bquinn said:


> WOW, my rims shipped out Monday and arrived today!
> I got the wider 29er 3K matte, weights: 382/385
> QUOTE]
> 
> That beats the 400g from their website. Let us know what the ERD is when you get them measured. Someone said its 603.


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## smoove_ride (Jun 13, 2008)

you guys are killing me. i had to do it 

just got off the ole IM chat with Nancy...

$155 per rim now, they are backed up a week with all the orders. $60 for shipping to the US.

these rims look, and are almost the same exact spec, as my carbon Roval rims. I'll be able to tell for sure when i get them. she wouldn't admit to making rims for Specilzd, but they do make frames for them she said. Hmmmm.. we'll see!


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Mine should be here today/tomorrow. I'll weigh them and post pics before I ship them off to have them built up


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

red5jedi said:


> bquinn said:
> 
> 
> > WOW, my rims shipped out Monday and arrived today!
> ...


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> red5jedi said:
> 
> 
> > see previous post for the correct information
> ...


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I just corrected my post. I double checked my email from Nancy and posted it in it's entirety for you guys


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Weight sounds very, very low, even lower than Enve's. Would love to hear how they compare to more standard aluminum rims in terms of rigidity.
Straw poll- how confident do you all feel that these rims are solid equipment meant to last?


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

uphiller said:


> Weight sounds very, very low, even lower than Enve's. Would love to hear how they compare to more standard aluminum rims in terms of rigidity.
> Straw poll- how confident do you all feel that these rims are solid equipment meant to last?


Time will tell. At this price as long as I get a solid couple years I'll be happy.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Their stiffness is what I want to know. If they are stiff, they would be a worthy upgrade from the crests on my race wheels.

Flexy and I'm not interested. But I feel like these would be way stiffer than an aluminum rim of similar weight.

Any first hand experience?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Lighter and wider than Enve? Hmz, I'm starting to get worried...


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## smoove_ride (Jun 13, 2008)

i ride both crests and carbon roval's. i'm not a heavy rider by any stretch, and i try and go easy on the gear... with that being said, my roval's are noticeably a stiffer rim/better ride than my crests. i've managed to bend/ding one or two crest rims in the past year. i did cause a bit of cosmetic damage to my rear roval rim, but that was my fault... hit a rock on a almost flat tire during a race. i'm pretty sure the hit would have eaten a crest. i'm still riding on it with no problems. just damaged the 'cosmetic' outer layer. 

my guess is these rims are damn near the same as my roval rims. if i munch and/or crack one... i'll replace it with a crest, it's damn near the same ERD, just swap the rim. yeah.. i could get it warrantied, blah, blah, blah... but why bother? at their pricepoint, it's worth the risk me thinks :thumbsup:


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

two-one said:


> Lighter and wider than Enve? Hmz, I'm starting to get worried...


Nope, they are coming in 10-40 grams heavier than the ENVE depending on who weighs them and yes they are alittle wider but the profile is 20MM compared to the 32MM of the ENVE. I am sure that the ENVE are much better as ENVE makes some of the best wheels out there but I am sure they will be comparable to other carbon wheels.

I am waiting for graphics before I put in my order but I am not concerned. I think they will be much stiffer than Crest at about the same weight. Even if they do fail down the road the ERD is the same as crest so I can always swap rims latter with the same spokes. I don't feel that I will have to do that but the option will always be there.


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## BigfootDenny (Jun 1, 2004)

"Fred" said:


> Nope, they are coming in 10-40 grams heavier than the ENVE depending on who weighs them and yes they are alittle wider but the profile is 20MM compared to the 32MM of the ENVE. I am sure that the ENVE are much better as ENVE makes some of the best wheels out there but I am sure they will be comparable to other carbon wheels.


FWIW I'm seeing the 24mm (external) ENVE XC rims listed at 385g, and the 30mm AM ENVE listed at 440g... 
Welcome to Enve Composites


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

BigfootDenny said:


> FWIW I'm seeing the 24mm (external) ENVE XC rims listed at 385g, and the 30mm AM ENVE listed at 440g...
> Welcome to Enve Composites


OK I did look at the weight of the XC and I should have looked at the AM with a more comparable width. So they are lighter but the profile is still 50% shorter so I still think they will be Fine.


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## drelyt (Oct 23, 2011)

Cant wait for more pics of laced up wheels.

I also wonder if they could make a 650b version.


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## gossejp (Oct 14, 2005)

Anyone looking to get these should give a listen to the Two John's Podcast from February 9, 2012 starting at 19:12 there is an interview with Jason Schiers of Enve Composites.

Two Johns website


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

gossejp said:


> Anyone looking to get these should give a listen to the Two John's Podcast from February 9, 2012 starting at 19:12 there is an interview with Jason Schiers of Enve Composites.
> 
> Two Johns website


I have skepticism both for 150 dollars Chinese carbon rims, and for the opinions of people who sell 900 dollar carbon rims about said 150 dollar carbon rims.


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## marmotman (Feb 14, 2007)

I've ridden extensively on Chinese carbon road rims (50mm). I have found them to be a great bargain carbon wheelset, unless a lot of descending was going on. The Chinese carbon rims still have issues with reliable braking surfaces. However, this is taken care of by having disc brakes. I weighed 190-225 lbs (225 when I started, 190 by the time I handed them off to a friend) during the testing of these wheels and they were great all around wheels. I'm very excited to build these 29er rims up into a competitive (as far as weight goes) 29er disc wheelset.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

uphiller said:


> I have skepticism both for 150 dollars Chinese carbon rims, and for the opinions of people who sell 900 dollar carbon rims about said 150 dollar carbon rims.


Yes!


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

marmotman- How long did you ride the Chinese rims? What conditions did you ride in? Tell us everything!


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## marmotman (Feb 14, 2007)

I rode them for about 6 months, periodically switching out to Dura Ace C24s. In total I probably put around 2,000 miles on them. I hit 60 mph on a straight descent during LOTOJA and they were fantastic for that course (no twisty descents, just pretty straight, fast descents). I primarily rode them in the Bay Area with lots of hills and lots of wind and some rain for good measure. The wheels climbed very wheel, even better than the Kysirium Sl's that they replaced. In the rain, braking was terrible, but as I said, I'm looking forward to the disc versions. In dry conditions, they tended to get real warm which forced me to pull over and wait on long twisty decents (Mt. Tam, particularly the last steep section before dropping down into Sausalito). I must caveat this by saying I used crappy carbon pads. I purchased the yellow swiss stop pads, but never got a chance to use them on the rims. My buddy that has them now is going to try the pads out and see how much of a difference they make. I was very surprised in the stiffness of the wheels. During intervals they performed very well. I've been in discussions with the manufacturer and they have really improved the breaking surface on their tubular verions, but haven't made much improvements with the clinchers. I want to try the blue reynolds pads on the clinchers though, that may make a difference. I first had these on an Orbea Orca and then a BH G5. For flats and any areas without long twist descents I highly recommend them.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I haven't listen to the podcast yet, but what do you expect Enve to say about these rims?? Oh, those cheap carbon rims should be a great bargain, go buy them instead of our 900$ rims.

Comparing the weight of these rims to Enve is pointless (apples to oranges when it comes to composite parts). Its pretty well been established that they are untested and nobody here is try to say otherwise. 

I'm both nervous and excited to try my rims, which will be here this week. I've already accepted the fact that its a gamble.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Got mine today=) I tried to take pictures but my camera blows... I weighed them on my hanging scale and my Park scale. Weight for #1 was 4.00kg on the hanging and 397gr on the Park. #2 was 3.90kg and 391gr. Sending them off tomorrow to have them built up!


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## shutterbug67 (May 16, 2007)

DFYFZX said:


> Got mine today=) I tried to take pictures but my camera blows... I weighed them on my hanging scale and my Park scale. Weight for #1 was 4.00kg on the hanging and 397gr on the Park. #2 was 3.90kg and 391gr. Sending them off tomorrow to have them built up!


Who are you having build them up? I would like to find a good source to have my wheels built. Don't really want to catch the flack I would get at my LBS for trying these...

Also, what hub do you guys think would be best in-expensive but reliable hub to have good engagement, lightweight and the capability to do a 10mm thru bolt in the rear and a 15mm thru axle up front? Would also like red-ano but not a deal killer.

What are the best spokes to build these with?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I always use Chad at RedBarn. Awesome guy, excellent builder and cuts pretty good deals on parts if you buy from him and have him build them.

Cheap, adaptable, quality and red sounds like Stans hubs to me... Stans or Hope Pro2 EVO line.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

The erd of a 29 crest is 605.

The erd of one of these carbon rims accoding to the 3rd page is 603.

Is this correct? 

What do yall think would be the spoke length difference between these two rims? 3x?


***Edit***

The difference between spoke lengths would be about .5mm per 1 change in ERD. 

So 2 erd difference is 1mm of spoke length change


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

I purchased one rim AM version, 392g. (30mm outside and 23 mm inside)

I have a roval rim to compare. 362g (28mm outside and 21mm inside)

Both have 20 mm profile and both have 603 erd.

I've already order 2 others rim to build it on my powertap and on my 240's rear. The front will be the roval with specialized oem hi-lo flange (OS28mm end cap) Spokes will be supercomp except for the powertap, I will put competition. I expect 1540ish grams for the wheelset.(dt and specialized hub tuned to 172g, both are rws 10mm)

It's my first post so, i will add picture via link: tell me witch one is the roval? 

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/rimcarbone002.jpg


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

I built a set of Hong Fu road carbon road clinchers up a few month ago and they are great. Finish quality was very nice and they've been bulletproof for a 1000 miles. I even hit a pothole hard enough to rotate my bars and nothing. It's the beginning of the end for over priced carbon components. The only people who will be buying the Enve type stuff are the same people who buy and try to justify $400.00 Assos shorts.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Enve


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## motomech (May 17, 2010)

mucky said:


> The rims look the same as the Chinese ones. If the rims are $220, that price for the complete set is insane. And they're heavy to boot, 1769g.


I just purchased two rims from bike impowerment.
They weigh 400 and 410 with an erd of 594.5mm.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm keen on these options, although must admit that a) I don't have the balls to take these to an lbs to have built up, and b) i've not ever tried to build a wheel before; meaning that I'll probably consider one of the pre-built wheel options along with some adapters from the UK site linked previously.

As such, my question is: is anyone going down the same path? Who wants to bite the bullet first?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Just take them to your LBS and tell them they're X brand and you just pulled the stickers off. They look nearly EXACTLY like Roval rims, just tell them you debadged them


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

As soon as my rims arrive I'll lace them up. I'm just waiting on them to arrive so I can order spokes and knock it out, no hesitation.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Rivet said:


> The only people who will be buying the Enve type stuff are the same people who buy and try to justify $400.00 Assos shorts.


Uh oh, I hope it doesn't work the other way around as I have 3 pairs of Assos shorts . Then again, probably has to do with living in Europe where the prices are a bit different, I could probably buy 3 or 4 Assos shorts for the price of 1 Enve rim.

I've been considering the carbon road rims for quite a while now but haven't gone for them yet, waiting for the experience with these carbon AM rims which hopefully come next week.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

I did a quick set-up just to try them tubless (AM model). Put one row of cheap electrical tape, no sealant, the beads ramped up very well with a 2bliss tire (fasttrack control, 605g). I try maxxis beaver (non tubless and very loose) with no success. It will need real thick tape (i see gorilla) and a lot of soap to pop-up this tire!

The interior hole is too small for the stem, I will make it bigger with abrasif tool (not drill) and seal the fibers with epoxy system.

I will test the rim to compare radial stiffness. I'm going to put a weight radially and measure the deformation of the rim itself, not a complete wheel. I have few rim to test (roval, chinese AM, oem specialized 450sl and maybe I can have some stan's). It will not be a super scientific test but it will talk a bit I hope...


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

gossejp said:


> Two Johns website


Listened to some of it and there was nothing really that interesting. Considering the entire podcast is THREE HOURS long I'll never hear the whole thing. What I did hear was just some guys gossiping and talking a lot of crap. They didn't really go into much detail about what is actually different about the two products. They just said they are cheap, use cheap carbon (if there is a such thing) and compared them to buying a fake Rolex. Well there are fake Rolex that are every bit as good at keeping time as a real Rolex and look the bill to boot. Somehow they also imply that rims being made to order is also a bad thing.

Listening to Envy talk about the benefits of buying their product is IMO akin to asking BMW why you shouldn't buy a MB. Of course they are only going to push their own product, they have a vested interest in pushing their own product. The fact that competition could be had for 1/6th of the price means that they absolutely HAVE to convince people that there is a substantial difference in quality and service.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

My new rims (AM) will be delivered tomorrow! Im really curious about the tubeless capability.
I've got a roll of Gorilla tape standing by, and hope I will get a reassuring *pop* at around 20-25psi inflation... but maybe stan's has spoiled me


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

A few words in favor of ENVE. 
If an ENVE rim breaks, you have someone to sue, which is not the case with the Chinese rim. At best they'll give you your money back. The ENVE is expensive and as proven as it gets for this new type of rim. It also has a deeper profile, which should make it stiffer.
No one knows yet if those benefits are worth 1300usd a set.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

GTR-33 said:


> They just said they are cheap, use cheap carbon (if there is a such thing) and compared them to buying a fake Rolex...


I'm agree with the fact that cheaper carbon and multiple smaller pieces can be used under the cosmetic layer and the impact resistance will be weeker on some spot.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

mat g said:


> I'm agree with the fact that cheaper carbon and multiple smaller pieces can be used under the cosmetic layer and the impact resistance will be weeker on some spot.


I assumed that the wheels would be made from carbon that doesn't include the use of old scrap pieces..


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

tehschkott said:


> As soon as my rims arrive I'll lace them up. I'm just waiting on them to arrive so I can order spokes and knock it out, no hesitation.


 Where do you order spokes from? I'm looking at the CX-Ray spokes. Do you use Spoke Prep or or Linseed Oil? I've only used Spoke Prep but read that Linseed oil works about the same (don't have access to spoke prep anymore).


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## BigfootDenny (Jun 1, 2004)

*ENVE vs. chinese carbon rims...*



GTR-33 said:


> Listened to some of it and there was nothing really that interesting. Considering the entire podcast is THREE HOURS long I'll never hear the whole thing. What I did hear was just some guys gossiping and talking a lot of crap. They didn't really go into much detail about what is actually different about the two products. They just said they are cheap, use cheap carbon (if there is a such thing) and compared them to buying a fake Rolex. Well there are fake Rolex that are every bit as good at keeping time as a real Rolex and look the bill to boot. Somehow they also imply that rims being made to order is also a bad thing.
> 
> Listening to Envy talk about the benefits of buying their product is IMO akin to asking BMW why you shouldn't buy a MB. Of course they are only going to push their own product, they have a vested interest in pushing their own product. The fact that competition could be had for 1/6th of the price means that they absolutely HAVE to convince people that there is a substantial difference in quality and service.


I respectfully disagree with your above conclusion. I got drawn into the podcast and listened to Jason talk about their products for quite a while. They do specifically go into the difference in the products. It's not just a matter of the quality of carbon layup, which is a factor, but it is more importantly a matter of the workmanship when doing the wheels. Jason stated that the production of the wheel is more important than the material. He says ENVE could make a good wheel, even if they used the cheaper materials being used by the Chinese companies. The podcast is worth a listen if you are considering a safe, dependable set of wheels. Little things like quality control, and the fact that the ENVE spoke holes are molded into the rim, rather than drilled afterwards, show a level of concern and engineering that makes me much more confident to use the product. Aside from that, the rim designs are totally different in depth, and I'm pretty sure ENVE has a good reason for that. After sustaining a couple serious accidents already, I am not willing to literally risk my life with a rim that has not been thoroughly tested and engineered. I cannot afford to be the early adopter test case for this product for my XC riding.
(FWIW -- based on my prior research, and after listening to the podcast, I have decided to order an ENVE wheelset for my Tallboy build within the next few weeks.)

I have been following this thread for weeks, and have learned quite a bit and am excited by the prospects of this technology inevitably creeping downward to more affordable levels just like everyone else. I look forward to hearing real-world reports of these rims, but hope things proceed safely and without catastrophic failures.

If you have the coin to pony up for ENVE wheels -- or at least want to listen to some very honest sounding information, give the podcast a listen Two Johns Podcast*|*
(The wheel info with Jason Schiers starts around 19:12)

YMMV


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

A fake Rolex may not be a REAL rolex, but it still might be a pretty good watch.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

BigfootDenny said:


> I respectfully disagree with your above conclusion. I got drawn into the podcast and listened to Jason talk about their products for quite a while. They do specifically go into the difference in the products. It's not just a matter of the quality of carbon layup, which is a factor, but it is more importantly a matter of the workmanship when doing the wheels. Jason stated that the production of the wheel is more important than the material. He says ENVE could make a good wheel, even if they used the cheaper materials being used by the Chinese companies. The podcast is worth a listen if you are considering a safe, dependable set of wheels. Little things like quality control, and the fact that the ENVE spoke holes are molded into the rim, rather than drilled afterwards, show a level of concern and engineering that makes me much more confident to use the product. Aside from that, the rim designs are totally different in depth, and I'm pretty sure ENVE has a good reason for that. After sustaining a couple serious accidents already, I am not willing to literally risk my life with a rim that has not been thoroughly tested and engineered. I cannot afford to be the early adopter test case for this product for my XC riding.
> (FWIW -- based on my prior research, and after listening to the podcast, I have decided to order an ENVE wheelset for my Tallboy build within the next few weeks.)
> 
> I have been following this thread for weeks, and have learned quite a bit and am excited by the prospects of this technology inevitably creeping downward to more affordable levels just like everyone else. I look forward to hearing real-world reports of these rims, but hope things proceed safely and without catastrophic failures.
> ...


I think that may be true to some extent. But, ENVE probably pays there employees more to work( being in the U.S), pays for advertising, may have to pay more for the same materials(being in the U.S.), sponserships, and probably has a shop that costs more to operate(being in the U.S.). This all factors into the price and has nothing to do with the workmanship, or quality of the product. They will naturally say something to justify the cost of their product. Age old sales tactics.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

these hubs must be just as good as Chris King for 1/6 the price, right?


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

BigfootDenny said:


> I respectfully disagree with your above conclusion. I got drawn into the podcast and listened to Jason talk about their products for quite a while. They do specifically go into the difference in the products. It's not just a matter of the quality of carbon layup, which is a factor, but it is more importantly a matter of the workmanship when doing the wheels. Jason stated that the production of the wheel is more important than the material. He says ENVE could make a good wheel, even if they used the cheaper materials being used by the Chinese companies. The podcast is worth a listen if you are considering a safe, dependable set of wheels. Little things like quality control, and the fact that the ENVE spoke holes are molded into the rim, rather than drilled afterwards, show a level of concern and engineering that makes me much more confident to use the product. Aside from that, the rim designs are totally different in depth, and I'm pretty sure ENVE has a good reason for that. After sustaining a couple serious accidents already, I am not willing to literally risk my life with a rim that has not been thoroughly tested and engineered. I cannot afford to be the early adopter test case for this product for my XC riding.
> (FWIW -- based on my prior research, and after listening to the podcast, I have decided to order an ENVE wheelset for my Tallboy build within the next few weeks.)
> 
> I have been following this thread for weeks, and have learned quite a bit and am excited by the prospects of this technology inevitably creeping downward to more affordable levels just like everyone else. I look forward to hearing real-world reports of these rims, but hope things proceed safely and without catastrophic failures.
> ...


You mean "thoroughly tested" like this?

Cozy Beehive: Edge Composite 68 Carbon Wheel Failure

Or how about this from the comments section.

_"I've had nothing but problems with my 45mm Edge carbon tubular wheels.Went down a 4% grade with them and the heat got to them. Edge admitted they had a bad "batch" and replaced mine under warranty. The next one also failed after 3 rides.Switching to Campy Boras ASAP"_

If I was going to throw some money at some carbon wheels I'd go Easton. They have ten times the carbon knowledge and experience of ENVE.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> these hubs must be just as good as Chris King for 1/6 the price, right?


Nope, not as good as Chris King but they probably aren't bad.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> Where do you order spokes from? I'm looking at the CX-Ray spokes. Do you use Spoke Prep or or Linseed Oil? I've only used Spoke Prep but read that Linseed oil works about the same (don't have access to spoke prep anymore).


I like BikeHubStore.com. Cool guy and great service.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

I have little doubt Enve rims are better than these chinese rims, not drilling spoke holes is one of the things which just seems better to me. However, most carbon rims are made in china without pre-formed spoke holes, even for the other big brands. 

If I had the money laying around with no other purpose I'd consider Enve, but at that price point I can't justify them. Whether these AM rims will catastrophically fail or not, time will tell, judging from the reports I've read on the chinese frames and road wheels I'm not too worried. A few road clinchers delaminated on long downhills, that's all I could find. No sudden explosion of these parts.

Considering my Tallboy is made in China I'm sure they are able to fabricate half decent carbon products..


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> these hubs must be just as good as Chris King for 1/6 the price, right?


Yup.


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## wedge (Jun 24, 2006)

meltingfeather said:


> these hubs must be just as good as Chris King for 1/6 the price, right?


that's the stan's ztr hubs right there!


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

do you guys have any idea the markup enve has on their wheels?


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

IT probably doesnt cost more than $100 to make a Enve rim in USA. Thats just a guess though.

The truth is I have no clue what the process is. So I really couldnt tell you an educated guess. Maybe somebody else knows


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Which model of the Chosen is the Stan's equivalent?*



wedge said:


> that's the stan's ztr hubs right there!


I'm thinking of building a wheel set and looking for an inexpensive hub with decent POE and 10mm rear convertibility (or extra caps so I can have the center drilled) I really can't stomach paying $350 for a dt swiss 240s or I-9 or CK. I have used the hubs from bikebikehubstore.com and they are quite nice. But I was hoping for a bit more POE to go with my carbon rims.


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## JoshS (Jan 7, 2004)

Where is the best place to source the narrower 29er Chinese carbon rim?


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

BigfootDenny said:


> If you have the coin to pony up for ENVE wheels -- or at least want to listen to some very honest sounding information, give the podcast a listen


I listened to it for 45 minutes. That was enough. The problem is that everything they said about the Chinese rims were generalities. The Light-Bicycle rims here don't look like they have drilled spoke holes. You can't make a comparative argument using generalities. You got sold. Good for you.

I had some Edge tubulars and ridden Envy clinchers, as well as Zipp, HED, Easton, Reynolds, Roval, Bontrager Aeolus (HED) and the RXXXL mountain wheels.

Envy isn't the only company making "Quality" carbon wheels. I liked them all. Quality? Umm... I somehow ripped the carbon fairing on the Aeolus wheels. Ripped... Like paper...

I guess my point is that after riding all of them, I don't see any significant difference between them and some were made in China. Plus many of them despite being carbon, aren't stiff at all. I liked a lot of the deep section carbon wheels because of how soft they rode and how fast they are.

We need real proof, not viral marketing, that there is a REAL difference between them. It's really easy to just say, "ours are better."



bt said:


> do you guys have any idea the markup enve has on their wheels?


Yes. It's right in line with the markup of really any other bike part. They don't have super large profit margins.


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## Quinner (Aug 29, 2011)

This thread is BS, just hearsay with no actual real ride reports and virtually no pictures of the wheels on a actual bike. If someone is actually using these wheels at a good level of riding then come out with a real review of them. Until then.....


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## wobbem (Jul 19, 2009)

Quinner said:


> This thread is BS, just hearsay with no actual real ride reports and virtually no pictures of the wheels on a actual bike. If someone is actually using these wheels at a good level of riding then come out with a real review of them. Until then.....


This:thumbsup:


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Quinner said:


> This thread is BS, just hearsay with no actual real ride reports and virtually no pictures of the wheels on a actual bike. If someone is actually using these wheels at a good level of riding then come out with a real review of them. Until then.....


I'm not sure how long they've been selling them. It appears that most of us who have purchased them are only just getting them (mine just arrived today), so no time for real ride rep ports, yet. That doesnt make the thread bs - maybe not very useful yet, but not bs. Ill post ride report in a month or so.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Once the weather turns around I will put some miles on my set that are being built now. There are others currently riding their wheels if you look back in the threads. 
And I hope I speak for others here, if you don't have anything to add then move on, but don't post useless, negative, good for nothing post!


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Quinner said:


> This thread is BS, just hearsay with no actual real ride reports and virtually no pictures of the wheels on a actual bike. If someone is actually using these wheels at a good level of riding then come out with a real review of them. Until then.....


Our guy still hasn't broken his. Same rim as discussed here. No hearsay. I've been watching them. Read the whole thread guys. For the love of God...


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Okay, so I received mine, and they weigh in at 406gr and 407gr, with matte UD carbon finish, and drilled for internal nipples. When you look inside the rim, you can clearly see 3K carbon, but that's no surprise to me.

I bought some CN Spoke R9 alloy internal nipples, and measured the ERD (for internal nipples, you won't have a use for that particular number). Suddenly I realized I made a big mistake: The drilled holes in the tirebed is only 6,5mm in diameter, while my internal spoke tool is 7mm wide.Also, the internal spoke nipples protrude from this hole by a millimeter (might be a problem for tubeless mounting). So I would advise to stick with normal spoke nipples for this rim.

Anyway, I'm going to order some spokes, and put my spoke tool on a lathe... might take a while before this is all done. I will place some photo's before then.

Ps. These rims feel solid, like a block of wood.


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

two-one said:


> Okay, so I received mine, and they weigh in at 406gr and 407gr, with matte UD carbon finish, and drilled for internal nipples. When you look inside the rim, you can clearly see 3K carbon, but that's no surprise to me.
> 
> I bought some CN Spoke R9 alloy internal nipples, and measured the ERD (for internal nipples, you won't have a use for that particular number). Suddenly I realized I made a big mistake: The drilled holes in the tirebed is only 6,5mm in diameter, while my internal spoke tool is 7mm wide.Also, the internal spoke nipples protrude from this hole by a millimeter (might be a problem for tubeless mounting). So I would advise to stick with normal spoke nipples for this rim.
> 
> ...


I would love to see a picture of the UD in Matte finish could you post a picture?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

indyfab25 said:


> Our guy still hasn't broken his. Same rim as discussed here. No hearsay. I've been watching them. Read the whole thread guys. For the love of God...


I have only 50 or so miles on mine but the felling of "oh sh!t these are carbon" is long gone. Can't get over how freaking good they feel.........


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm glad to hear they feel good when freshly built. Let's all not forget that no one has ridden these long-term. Thanks to early adopters for going out on a limb.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Just got home to look at mine...couple small disappointments. First is that there are some spots on one rim, looks like there was some dirt or something when they applied the matte finish, so little bumps. Second is really minor...was hoping mine would weigh as low as others were reporting in the 380-385 gram range, but no such luck. Mine came in at 410g and 415g. Not a big deal, seeing as claimed weight was 400 +/- 10g. But if they hold up, I won't be complaining about either, as the price was MUCH less than the competition.


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## BigfootDenny (Jun 1, 2004)

uphiller said:


> I'm glad to hear they feel good when freshly built. Let's all not forget that no one has ridden these long-term. Thanks to early adopters for going out on a limb.


Yep... what he said...:yesnod:


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## rufio (Jul 3, 2011)

It is good to hear that there is a lot of positive feedback to these rims. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and throw down the cash for these.

Until then...

I will be poking in on this thread for more carbon wheel pRon!!!


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

bikeempowerment 22mm internal width. waiting for hubs and spokes. race season starts in two weeks so they will be ridin.


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## BigfootDenny (Jun 1, 2004)

*bikeempowerment rims = light-bicycle Chinese rims*



DukeNeverwinter said:


> bikeempowerment 22mm internal width. waiting for hubs and spokes. race season starts in two weeks so they will be ridin.


Your rims are the same as the ones being discussed on this forum. i confirmed that with the bikeempowerment seller a few days ago ...


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## CupOfJava (Dec 1, 2008)

DukeNeverwinter said:


> bikeempowerment 22mm internal width. waiting for hubs and spokes. race season starts in two weeks so they will be ridin.


Is there a way to take those ugly decals off? Any why a rider limit of 190?


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## JoshS (Jan 7, 2004)

Thinking about giving the narrow ones from Light-Bicycle a try and a set of the 60mm road ones a try for cyclocross.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

decals would come off easy. But, I will leave them on. Help promote his business at the races.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

The value is very low with bike empowerment. Is it a US distributor? That would be the only reason I might consider buying from there. Fast shipping and good communication.(presumably)


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

SHeepo5669, that's why I went with him. I met him at a Coffee shop in San Diego near my work. no waiting, cash. He has a good relationship with a couple of the more popular shops in San Diego.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Got my rims last night. Its really hard to get a good shot of the ud matte finish. First pic is with the flash off and second with it on.



























I'm pretty happy with the overall finish of the parts. One of the rims did have a few pieces of bladder left in the rim cavity. I got one out, the other is going to take some fishing. I had asked Nancy if the spoke holes are molded or post machined, and she responded that they are machined. However, it really looks like the nipple holes are molded, but the secondary nipple holes and valve stem holes are machined. This doesn't really concern me though. I did notice that the inner cavity surface layer is 3k plain weave, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the core plies are 3k.

A few measurements:

wieght - 400/405g
ERD - 601-602mm
BSD/ISO - 621mm
internal width - 23.5mm
lip height - 6mm
middle depression depth - 8mm

I'm lacing these up to a set of Circus Monkey HDW2 hubs with Sapim Laser spokes and alloy nipples. Calculated weight of 688g front / 810g rear. Hubs are probably more of a gamble than these rims


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

just ordered up a few of these in 3k matte. looking forward to getting them! thanks for the information guys!


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Yeah! My wheels are built! My builder said they were super easy to build and was so impressed he's going to buy a set for himself. I'll get some ride time on them next week. Can't wait!


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

bquinn, good to hear. Trail work on saturday, but should get mine built this weekend. Unfortunately, it will probably be a week or two before I can test them.


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## Scotto (Mar 25, 2004)

Hopefully there will start to be some real-world test rides on these rims. What I'm looking for and I think a lot of others too is the answers to these questions:
What is the weight built, with pictures?
How do they work tubeless and with what tires?
And the main one, are they stiffer than aluminum rims, how do they ride?
Right now I could ask anymore from my wheels built with Crest rims, great weight, going tubeless is a breeze and they're pretty stiff. But if these carbon rims can do all that and be stiffer, then I'm all in.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Scotto said:


> Hopefully there will start to be some real-world test rides on these rims. What I'm looking for and I think a lot of others too is the answers to these questions:
> What is the weight built, with pictures?
> How do they work tubeless and with what tires?
> And the main one, are they stiffer than aluminum rims, how do they ride?
> Right now I could ask anymore from my wheels built with Crest rims, great weight, going tubeless is a breeze and they're pretty stiff. But if these carbon rims can do all that and be stiffer, then I'm all in.


Whoa Scotto...my questions EXACTLY.

Someone please....anyone....:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

hmm, you are only like the 50th person to ask those questions . . .


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Just mailed mine off today to get built.

Before I shipped them,, I took them out and laid them on the kitchen table and they were FLAT! I could see a miniscule bit of light here and there but I couldn't even slide a piece of paper under them. Considering my expectations were low, I'm quite impressed with the quality of these things. Weight was less than 10 grams off per rim and they're 99.9% true right out of the box. I'm getting giddy with excitement=)

I will most definitely post pics and weights when I get them back. Total weight should be right around 1400 grams with my spec'd build. Reliability is obviously a test of time but I'm beginning to believe they're going to impress.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

ktm520 said:


> hmm, you are only like the 50th person to ask those questions . . .


oh...sincerest apologies!!

i would hate to reiterate the i too would appreciate a relevant/unanswered series of questions to be answered...silly me..

still with scotto on this one...especially how they might compare to the crest rims in flex (yes i understand that lacing plays a role) and how they seat with tubeless stan's setup?

maybe i missed something...


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> i would hate to reiterate the i too would appreciate a relevant/unanswered series of questions to be answered...silly me..


What, you think everyone is holding out on you? The questions haven't been answered because there are no answers to give. If you don't want to be a tester, be patient and wait in line. Its going to be awhile before there are any substantial reviews. I will be comparing these back to back with a set of Crest, so there's your teaser.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

ktm520 said:


> What, you think everyone is holding out on you? The questions haven't been answered because there are no answers to give. If you don't want to be a tester, be patient and wait in line. Its going to be awhile before there are any substantial reviews. I will be comparing these back to back with a set of Crest, so there's your teaser.


Look, there are members that have these wheels on their dang bike right now. They have ridden with them. Nearly every request that Scotto and I have can be answered w/o even riding the bike.

Having said that, I will also appreciate your future write up. Thx for testing these puppies out..

Now get out there


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Daddy want. 

Yeah, a nice wide rim that can take some pounding, but still come in around 400g? That is nuts. Granted, they are twice as much as the rims I normally buy, but they seem to be way tougher as well, and 75g lighter. 

I'm just curious as to what happens during a failure... not saying the rim will fail because they are junk or anything. Any rim can fail if you side load them too much, or hit something way too hard at speed. 

It will be a while before I can come up with cash to get a set, so that will allow for more feedback before I jump on anything.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Daddy want.
> 
> Yeah, a nice wide rim that can take some pounding, but still come in around 400g? That is nuts. Granted, they are twice as much as the rims I normally buy, but they seem to be way tougher as well, and 75g lighter.
> 
> ...


here is a good site to check out carbon failures

Busted Carbon


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Trond said:


> here is a good site to check out carbon failures
> 
> Busted Carbon


Yeah, great site. Spend hours and hours on all the broken carbon stuff before I ordered my carbon road bike and my Tallboy CF. What can be made can be broken, whether it's carbon, aluminium, brick, steel, wood, etc. Most of the images I saw on that site are btw a result of a crash, and if I hit a car/tree head on, I'm not too worried how the bike comes out after the crash, more hoping my head and spine won't be the parts which absorb the most energy..


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Maybe the only failure will be on rocks garden. A big hits will probably knock-off the lip and crush it a lot. That type of hit will for sure dents any rim... But I measure the thickness of the inside wall, the wall that hold the tension of the spoke, there's +3mm thick carbon ring. That is 3 time the thickness of a Crest. I believe that "ring" can hold a tremendous force in torsional direction. Warping that rim seem to me impossible, but maybe it's possible to explode them in a big crash. Will see with time!


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

With "crash replacement" of a carbon roval rim at 250, all I hope for these is that they are somewhat close in weight and dimensions. The rovals are good wheels, but to get that light weight you pay some durability tax!

Wheel failure on the carbon rovals is not catastrophic, the bead breaks radially from a hard rim strike and the 2 failures I have seen didn't even lose air hoursof riding later.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

I will test my wheels like this:

sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm

And for your enjoyment, I have buy a 24 hole one to put around a dirty flea (tuned to 272g). But not this week, i'm to busy and all my rims are not here.


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

So I have this obsession with wheels. Right now one of my bikes has a set of I9/Flow wheels and it's a little sad that it doesn't get the same carbon fiber rim love that my other ENVE-equipped bikes have. Has anyone tried re-lacing a set of the I9 Enduro wheels with the slightly larger ERD of the Light Bicycles AM rims?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> I'm just curious as to what happens during a failure... not saying the rim will fail because they are junk or anything. Any rim can fail if you side load them too much, or hit something way too hard at speed.


I have a fair amount of experience with composites outside of the cycling industry. I'm still not willing to assume the risk of riding a carbon mtb frame, more for financial reasons than safety. As far as these rims go, my biggest concern is rim strikes on rocks that would crack the lip of the rim. Catestrophic failure that would cause series bodily harm, that is of little concern and the risk is on par with an aluminum rim failure.

Cracks on composite parts are usually pronounced, so an eye for detail and regular visual inspections go a long way.

I would be more concerned with a bar failure (carbon or alloy) than a carbon rim failure.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Spoke gauge options with carbon rim?*

so...can we run even thinner gauge spokes when using such a rigid carbon rim vs alum rim?? i am just wondering if that is another benefit.

on my last wheel build, i went with a thicker gauge spoke on the drive side (rear). i wonder if that would even be necessary on a carbon rim..


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

2TurnersNotEnough said:


> So I have this obsession with wheels. Right now one of my bikes has a set of I9/Flow wheels and it's a little sad that it doesn't get the same carbon fiber rim love that my other ENVE-equipped bikes have. Has anyone tried re-lacing a set of the I9 Enduro wheels with the slightly larger ERD of the Light Bicycles AM rims?


ERD is 600 for the Flows. 603 for these rims. That might be too far off. I have Enduro/Pacenti TL28s. 1mm should be fine if I convert.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Indy, the ERD on the rims I got is actually closer to the 601-602mm range. Did you measure the rims you are testing or are you going off the rim spec?


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> Hell, I know a guy who has a business where he does nothing but import dozens of these rims, and build them up for people in any configuration they might desire.


who is this guy, got a link? different from redbarn?

just finished powering thru 17 pages. i thought for sure i had a Crest wheelset in my future, but that is now in question. fortunately, this particular future lies on the far side of summer, so there's plenty of time for you guys to prove these rims. thanks in advance for sharing your stories and safe riding! 
:thumbsup:


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## Scotto (Mar 25, 2004)

I just got this from Industry Nine:

We'll build on any 32 hole rim that utilizes external nipples, and by the look of the rim on the link you'd be good… The ERD is close enough to a Stan's Flow that we probably wouldn't have to make custom spokes for it and that would keep the price a bit lower. We couldn't take responsibility for any rim warranty issues and we'd let you know if we had a QC issue with the rim(s) before we finished the product. If you do get the rims and want to have us build you something up, drop us a call to request a RA number to get the ball rolling.

Now do I want to fork over the money? That would be some wheel build I bet.


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## Dwdrums00 (Jul 8, 2006)

DFYFZX said:


> Just mailed mine off today to get built.
> 
> Before I shipped them,, I took them out and laid them on the kitchen table and they were FLAT! I could see a miniscule bit of light here and there but I couldn't even slide a piece of paper under them.


Is your kitchen table perfectly flat? I highly doubt it...


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

Scotto said:


> I just got this from Industry Nine:
> 
> We'll build on any 32 hole rim that utilizes external nipples, and by the look of the rim on the link you'd be good&#8230; The ERD is close enough to a Stan's Flow that we probably wouldn't have to make custom spokes for it and that would keep the price a bit lower. We couldn't take responsibility for any rim warranty issues and we'd let you know if we had a QC issue with the rim(s) before we finished the product. If you do get the rims and want to have us build you something up, drop us a call to request a RA number to get the ball rolling.
> 
> Now do I want to fork over the money? That would be some wheel build I bet.


This is what I am doing. I am having the rims shipped directly to I9 with an RA # and then they will ship them to my LBS where they will be installed on my new RDO. Red hubs and red spokes on a black RDO with a Black carbon lefty should look fast as #*!*. If they do fail I will relace them to some stans hoops. Its a $300 gamble that I feel will payoff.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

ktm520 said:


> Cracks on composite parts are usually pronounced, so an eye for detail and regular visual inspections go a long way.


no need to inspect. when you get a rim strike and one of these rims (have been present for 2 roval rim breaks) the sound is a sickening pop. wheel stays true and holds air, but it is for sure structurally compromised after that!


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Scotto said:


> I just got this from Industry Nine:
> 
> We'll build on any 32 hole rim that utilizes external nipples, and by the look of the rim on the link you'd be good&#8230; The ERD is close enough to a Stan's Flow that we probably wouldn't have to make custom spokes for it and that would keep the price a bit lower. We couldn't take responsibility for any rim warranty issues and we'd let you know if we had a QC issue with the rim(s) before we finished the product. If you do get the rims and want to have us build you something up, drop us a call to request a RA number to get the ball rolling.
> 
> Now do I want to fork over the money? That would be some wheel build I bet.


So you mean they will build these with their own aluminum spokes? Did I hear correctly?


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

uphiller said:


> So you mean they will build these with their own aluminum spokes? Did I hear correctly?


Yes they deduct the cost of the stans rims from the price. So $1000 plus the $350 for the carbon rims. Not bad considering what you get and even if they do fail for another $150 you can rebuild them with some stans hoops and the spoke lengths will be fine.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Dwdrums00 said:


> Is your kitchen table perfectly flat? I highly doubt it...


Both rims and my table are warped exactly the same? I highly doubt it...


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

man, reading through all this is enough to make me want to build up a set, without really any substantial info presented here, ha
anxiously awaiting some reports


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

My wheels ended up at 1550gr with AC 15mm/142x12 and DT Comp spokes, AL nipples. The wider 29 rims.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Meh...*



Trond said:


> here is a good site to check out carbon failures
> 
> Busted Carbon


Seen it. Most of those failures are running into things. The wheel failures are mostly Mavic carbon spoke system wheels, which had major design issues, and were recalled.

I've had a couple of carbon failures in my time, but mostly with older carbon stuff that was never that great to begin with, or things that were obviously my fault.

I know when carbon fails, it tends to explode while Aluminum bends (and can sometimes be bent back to limp home... hence, my taco'ed wheel vid). I'm just wondering at what comparative thresholds this happens.

I don't live in fear of carbon.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

I did a test on hoops tonignt. I put a 25 pounds radialy hold by a spoke. 3 rims tested. Big numbers!

Specialized oem 450sl aluminum(dt made) (490g) 0.170" or 4.3mm. 
Specialized Roval carbon (362g) 0.130" or 3.3mm. 
Chinese AM (392g) 0.110" or 2.8mm. 

Still waiting for spokes, my next test will be on complete wheels and lateraly.


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

mat g said:


> I did a test on hoops tonignt. I put a 25 pounds radialy hold by a spoke. 3 rims tested. Big numbers!
> 
> Specialized oem 450sl aluminum(dt made) (490g) 0.170" or 4.3mm.
> Specialized Roval carbon (362g) 0.130" or 3.3mm.
> ...


That's interesting.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Just built the rear wheel up. Wider carbon rim with hope hub, dt super comp spoke. Built up very easily, with incredibly even tension on the drive side. Had it built with an average tension about 120 kgf, then checked the centering and realized it was slightly off. Recentered with just a quarter turn or so on driveside, and all good. Tension ended up a little higher at about 130 kgf, but all spokes on the drive side are within 2.5% ! of average. (I was taught that under 10% difference from average is acceptable.) 

Hopefully, the easy build is indicative of the quality of the rim. Guess we'll find out when I ride it!


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Good news Jwiffle. Yes, an easy build is at least an indicator that the rim came out of the mold straight. I've got mine laced, but not tensioned yet. I used different nipples than usual and didn't realize they are the bigger hex size and I don't have a damn wrench for them. This is my luck.

AM rims, Circus monkey HDW2 hubs, Sapim Lasers, Sapim alloy nipples came out at 691g front, 818g rear, for a total of 1509g.


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

Jwiffle said:


> Just built the rear wheel up. Wider carbon rim with hope hub, dt super comp spoke. Built up very easily, with incredibly even tension on the drive side. Had it built with an average tension about 120 kgf, then checked the centering and realized it was slightly off. Recentered with just a quarter turn or so on driveside, and all good. Tension ended up a little higher at about 130 kgf, but all spokes on the drive side are within 2.5% ! of average. (I was taught that under 10% difference from average is acceptable.)
> 
> Hopefully, the easy build is indicative of the quality of the rim. Guess we'll find out when I ride it!


Pics please. I'm sorry to keep beating this drum.


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

Thanks for posting up the I9 information. That saves me a call to them to find out if this would work. Sounds like I'm going to be ordering a pair of these rims in the not-too-distant-future.


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

I9 spokes and carbon rims?? :eekster: I've wondered how that would turn out if done. Sounds like an extremely rigid wheel...:drumroll:


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

rockinrod42 said:


> I9 spokes and carbon rims?? :eekster: I've wondered how that would turn out if done. Sounds like an extremely rigid wheel...:drumroll:


Yeah. Maybe too stiff. Great for a longer travel bike- the suspension does all the absorbing, and the wheels just track straight, even under load.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

rockinrod42 said:


> I9 spokes and carbon rims?? :eekster: I've wondered how that would turn out if done. Sounds like an extremely rigid wheel...:drumroll:


test results I've seen (and posted here somewhere) show that I9 spokes are actually relatively elastic. spokes are just one factor, but you seem to suggest that their spokes are stiff. :thumbsup:


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

I don't have any test figures handy...but I had a set of I9's once and they were much stiffer compared to the same-weight wheelset that they replaced. Stan's Olympic/steel spokes/CK hubs to the I9 Ultralites/355 rim, both 26", 32 spoke. I guess the rim difference had something to do with it but I always assumed it was the spokes, maybe the spokes just looked beefier...


----------



## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

mat g said:


> I did a test on hoops tonignt. I put a 25 pounds radialy hold by a spoke. 3 rims tested. Big numbers!
> 
> Specialized oem 450sl aluminum(dt made) (490g) 0.170" or 4.3mm.
> Specialized Roval carbon (362g) 0.130" or 3.3mm.
> ...


Ok, tonight, I did the same test but lateraly...

The 25 pounds weight was to heavy, I put 10 pounds on each rims:

Specialized oem 450sl : 0.480" or 12mm
Specialized Roval carbon: 0.240" or 6mm
Chinese AM: 0.175" or 4.5mm.

Seems that chinese rim are way stiffer than ordinary alloy rim...in both direction. That will be uncomfortable for my HT!

Pics:
img689.imageshack.us/img689/6861/001mkq.jpg


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

bquinn said:


> My wheels ended up at 1550gr with AC 15mm/142x12 and DT Comp spokes, AL nipples. The wider 29 rims.


that's just about the setup i have spinning around in my head, but DT revo instead of comp....


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> test results I've seen (and posted here somewhere) show that I9 spokes are actually relatively elastic. spokes are just one factor, but you seem to suggest that their spokes are stiff. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE
> 
> What makes them so stiff? It isn't the tension.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> Indy, the ERD on the rims I got is actually closer to the 601-602mm range. Did you measure the rims you are testing or are you going off the rim spec?


Measured. Twice. And measured by another guy.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Is the ERD effected by the fact that the inner part of the rim where the nipple will seat is thicker on these rims than normal alloy rims? It looks to be closer to 3mm of material versus 1-2mm on an alloy rim. These rims probably use the same length spokes as a 603mm ERD rim but the extra material makes the measurement different, correct?


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

funny thing is these look just like my carbon rovals once I got rid of my ugly red stickers 
my rims came in at 375 grams so these look like a steal 

Sj
p.s getting the stickers off a carbon roval is not worth your time


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> Is the ERD effected by the fact that the inner part of the rim where the nipple will seat is thicker on these rims than normal alloy rims? It looks to be closer to 3mm of material versus 1-2mm on an alloy rim. These rims probably use the same length spokes as a 603mm ERD rim but the extra material makes the measurement different, correct?


ERD is from the inner nipple seat. If you measure correctly that wall thickness doesn't even come into play.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

hope to get an official erd by tomorrow. I would like to order and build up before a race on the 4th


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

SlowerJoe said:


> funny thing is these look just like my carbon rovals once I got rid of my ugly red stickers
> my rims came in at 375 grams so these look like a steal


 Great info, thanks.

With the few measurements from people that have received their new AM rim, its almost sounding like the UD finish is in the 400g range and the 3k finish is lower in the 385g range.


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*Don't know if this has been asked or discussed*

so please bear with me. I could not find anything in this thread or the light bicycle website that mentions impact resistance. This is my main fear and something that would lead me to easton wheels unless I knew that they were as durable and as eastons/enves and not prone to catastrophic failure. Has anyone seen any literature or responses from the company that speak to the products durability.

Thanks!


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Sheepo5669 said:


> hope to get an official erd by tomorrow. I would like to order and build up before a race on the 4th


I used the erd Nancy at light-bicycle gave me: 602 and the wheels built up fine. In fact, if the erd was 603 as some have mentioned, it wouldn't even have required different spokes in my case.

(This is for the wider rim, I didn't ask if the standard rim had a different erd).


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> Good news Jwiffle. Yes, an easy build is at least an indicator that the rim came out of the mold straight. I've got mine laced, but not tensioned yet. I used different nipples than usual and didn't realize they are the bigger hex size and I don't have a damn wrench for them. This is my luck.
> 
> AM rims, Circus monkey HDW2 hubs, Sapim Lasers, Sapim alloy nipples came out at 691g front, 818g rear, for a total of 1509g.


Many, that's light! I thought mine came in pretty light at 770g and 900g, front and rear respectively. The hope hubs are not the very lightest, but they aren't tanks, either.

Anyway, for tehschkott, a couple pics:


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Jwiffle. Great shots. Which finish is this?


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Trond said:


> Jwiffle. Great shots. Which finish is this?


12k, matte


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

SlowerJoe said:


> funny thing is these look just like my carbon rovals once I got rid of my ugly red stickers
> my rims came in at 375 grams so these look like a steal
> 
> Sj
> p.s getting the stickers off a carbon roval is not worth your time


I was thinking that too. The Roval Control SL carbon wheel red colour scheme was one of the reasons I wasn't very enthusiastic about getting some, that and the cost of course.

ENVE carbon rims look nice. If you're paying full price for them it's extremely hard to justify though. A single ENVE 29er XC Clincher rim is £750 GBP ($1188 USD approx at today's exchange rate). You could buy almost sixteen light-bicycle.com 29er carbon rims for the same money as a pair of ENVE 29er XC carbon rims at UK prices.:eekster:

Singletrack Magazine | PressCamp 2011: Enve Rims

I've ordered a pair of the standard width light-bicycle.com 29er rims in 3k carbon with a matte finish as a test. It will be interesting to see how they turn out.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Trond said:


> Jwiffle. Great shots. Which finish is this?


Jwiffle posted a picture showing the three different carbon finishes here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/8913226-post43.html

UD carbon is the plainest looking one. It's just black and is quite understated but might look better with a gloss finish.

3k carbon is the small weave pattern that I went for on my rims. This is the style that looks just like a Roval Control SL rim.

12k carbon is the wider weaved pattern that is in the pictures above.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks!


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

I have flows, what is the rim weight on flows?
anyone know?


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

bt said:


> I have flows, what is the rim weight on flows?
> anyone know?


Seriously?

ZTR Flow 29" - 32 Hole Black


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

I know this is the 29er forum, but seems to be the official thread for these rims...They will be selling the wider version of the 26" rims towards the end of the month per Nancy at light-bicycle for anyone interested.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I have a set on the way. 29er Wide 12k Matte 420g version for my fat ass. Will be laced to Kings with DT Swiss Comps. 10 days to ship. Will post the build and ride feedback.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Rivet said:


> Seriously?
> 
> ZTR Flow 29" - 32 Hole Black


sorry I was in a hurry and couldn't find it on their website.

so save about 125 grams per wheel....hmmmmmm


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

Jwiffle said:


> Many, that's light! I thought mine came in pretty light at 770g and 900g, front and rear respectively. The hope hubs are not the very lightest, but they aren't tanks, either.
> 
> Anyway, for tehschkott, a couple pics:


Kick. Ass. Thanks!


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## anomaly (Jun 18, 2007)

mat g said:


> Ok, tonight, I did the same test but lateraly...
> 
> The 25 pounds weight was to heavy, I put 10 pounds on each rims:
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for that!


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

A few pics


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

anomaly said:


> Thank you very much for that!


I like to test stuff with real numbers (scientific methods). I don't like to get a feeling because it's to subjective. Once my wheels will be mounted, I will try to say (with my feeling!) witch one is stiffer than the other... But my mind will be influenced!


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## Wveddy (Dec 26, 2011)

clewttu said:


> I know this is the 29er forum, but seems to be the official thread for these rims...They will be selling the wider version of the 26" rims towards the end of the month per Nancy at light-bicycle for anyone interested.


Thanks for the heads up. I am sure other 26ers are watching this forum.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Jwiffle said:


> I used the erd Nancy at light-bicycle gave me: 602 and the wheels built up fine. In fact, if the erd was 603 as some have mentioned, it wouldn't even have required different spokes in my case.
> 
> (This is for the wider rim, I didn't ask if the standard rim had a different erd).


Hmm... They actually told me 603 over live chat yesterday night. 
Not like it would make much a difference but still strange.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

mat g said:


> I like to test stuff with real numbers (scientific methods). I don't like to get a feeling because it's to subjective. Once my wheels will be mounted, I will try to say (with my feeling!) witch one is stiffer than the other... But my mind will be influenced!


:thumbsup: My thoughts exactly. Most performance gains associated with new gear are about 95% psychological. You don't happen to have a Crest laying around to throw in your lateral load test fixture?


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

ktm520 said:


> :thumbsup: My thoughts exactly. Most performance gains associated with new gear are about 95% psychological. You don't happen to have a Crest laying around to throw in your lateral load test fixture?


I don't know if my LBS are agree to let me bend one of his crest rim!


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Oh, I do have an Arch I could try it on if I can find a 10lb mass.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

ktm520 said:


> Oh, I do have an Arch I could try it on if I can find a 10lb mass.


If you want to compare with my numbers, be sure half of the rim is fully press to your table. That's why I put a large piece of wood and a big tool box on it. :thumbsup:

img689.imageshack.us/img689/6861/001mkq.jpg


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

clewttu said:


> I know this is the 29er forum, but seems to be the official thread for these rims...They will be selling the wider version of the 26" rims towards the end of the month per Nancy at light-bicycle for anyone interested.


Yep, a 26'er here that has been watching this thread closely. I'd love to try a wide version 26" if it will work well with a tubeless-ready tire, and Stan's yellow tape & fluid. Thanks for the info!


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

I could'nt resist to do a real nice matching copy!


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Anybody happen to know if these are an exact replica (dimension wise) of a certain brand?


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## anomaly (Jun 18, 2007)

mat g said:


> I like to test stuff with real numbers (scientific methods). I don't like to get a feeling because it's to subjective. Once my wheels will be mounted, I will try to say (with my feeling!) witch one is stiffer than the other... But my mind will be influenced!


The scientific method is a beautiful thing. If you can test a Stans Arch I would love to see the results.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Supposedly they are not. The specialized are narrower.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

mat g said:


> I could'nt resist to do a real nice matching copy!


Nice work! Are you also going to use a quarter of red bladed spokes? Those things are expensive 
And I would have used the name "Oval"


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

anomaly said:


> The scientific method is a beautiful thing. If you can test a Stans Arch I would love to see the results.


I have a friend who have Arch on i9 set-up. I'll test it when my wheels will be build. That would be a nice compare. I order a 24h to build on dirty flea rear. I will see if spoke count have a major or minor impact on stifness.

5 rear wheels battle:
Chinese AM 32H on powertap, competiton 2.0/1.8/2.0.
Chinese AM 32H on DT240s rws 10mm, supercomp 2.0/1.7/1.8.
Chinese AM 24H on dirty flea, competition 2.0/1.8/2.0.
Stan's Arch on i9.
Specialized 450sl 32H (alloy) on DT oem specialized (maybe like a dt350 or dt340, i don't know)


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## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

Yo Mat,

That's nice stuff. If you need stickers I'll forward you a nice sticker guy in Val-Bélair.

Cheers!


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## boseta (Jul 26, 2008)

I like these ones!ax-lightness: Bike Components


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*100 miles*

Have about 100 or so miles on these rims and just can't get over how well they perform. The reduction in rotating weight is the thing I notice the most.

If I have to replace the rims in the future I would do it. Just can see myself going back to alloy rims.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

250 gram tubulars? Maybe for cross


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

clewttu said:


> I know this is the 29er forum, but seems to be the official thread for these rims...They will be selling the wider version of the 26" rims towards the end of the month per Nancy at light-bicycle for anyone interested.


I'm interested, very very interested. Although actually buying a set has to wait a little while, put a deposit on a frame and bought a set of 55s this week... my wallet's feeling a little creeky.


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## JoshS (Jan 7, 2004)

mat g said:


> I could'nt resist to do a real nice matching copy!


How did you get ahold of just the roval rim?


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Just built up a rear 28 spoke, DT 240 hub, CX Ray spokes with DT Prolock aluminum nips. Built up very easy. Rounder then the crests I built 8 months ago and very very true. Only thing was some of the spoke holes were a bit tight but the nips pulled through fine as it was brought up into tension. Weight without valves or tape was 792. So far I am impressed. Will get the front built up sometime next week and get some miles on them and get a report in a while.


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

bquinn said:


> A few pics


Did you have these built up by Deon at little Ade's? Swear I saw these there today on a beautiful blue carbon stumpy!?


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

JoshS said:


> How did you get ahold of just the roval rim?


At my LBS, last fall, a pair of these was laying on the basement, waiting for me. But suddently, one was sold for replacement crash. I buy the last one and order another one this spring. But... the price was raised at a point that no one can affort them! So I keep the first roval and find this thread..., and order a chinese rim (on ebay, but not in china, by a seller who visit this thread).

I mounted the chinese AM yesterday. It end up very true but the interior (bead seat) seems to be unround. I will take a video to show you what I mean.

I know..., my name on the rim is so ugly! And yes, the powertap have a custom made 140mm disk!


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

tonloc08 said:


> Did you have these built up by Deon at little Ade's? Swear I saw these there today on a beautiful blue carbon stumpy!?


Sure did! Sadly my Stumpy isn't carbon though, just plain ole AL.

There may be some sort of group order in the future through Ades to save on shipping. Dion mentioned building a set for himself, my friend Nick is prob going with these and eventually there will be others!


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## gcavy1 (Oct 21, 2009)

Do guys like the no logo/decal look? 

I'm going to admit I'm guilty of really liking all the flashy wheel designs out there right now. Some custom stickers would be pretty sweet.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, what did this set come out to price wise? Or better yet, how much of a savings did you see over similar sets. (e.g. Spec. Roval)


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

gcavy1 said:


> Do guys like the no logo/decal look?
> 
> I'm going to admit I'm guilty of really liking all the flashy wheel designs out there right now. Some custom stickers would be pretty sweet.


No, I can't stand the oversized logos plastered all over rims, it's just screams, look at me I want your attention.

I'll take the stealth look all day long.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

gcavy1 said:


> Do guys like the no logo/decal look?
> 
> I'm going to admit I'm guilty of really liking all the flashy wheel designs out there right now. Some custom stickers would be pretty sweet.
> 
> Also, if you don't mind me asking, what did this set come out to price wise? Or better yet, how much of a savings did you see over similar sets. (e.g. Spec. Roval)


stealth looks so much better imo

you can go to light-bikes website to price them with shipping to your location, and compare to what you can find for another rim, nothing hidden there...150 for a normal rim, 155 for the wide, and prob around 50 for shipping, so 350-360 a set, spokes/nipples/hubs is a variable that can swing depending on components chosen


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

mat g said:


> I mounted the chinese AM yesterday. It end up very true but the interior (bead seat) seems to be unround. I will take a video to show you what I mean.


Mine are the same way. I didn't put the indicator on the bead seat to see how far out of round, but I'm not worried about considering how out of round tires are.

I'm all about the clean look. No stickers or 3k/12k weave anywhere for me.


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## gcavy1 (Oct 21, 2009)

clewttu said:


> stealth looks so much better imo
> 
> you can go to light-bikes website to price them with shipping to your location, and compare to what you can find for another rim, nothing hidden there...150 for a normal rim, 155 for the wide, and prob around 50 for shipping, so 350-360 a set, spokes/nipples/hubs is a variable that can swing depending on components chosen


yeah, I'm aware of the prices on the rims and their wheelsets. I guess I don't know what a wheel builder typically charges. I saw that the wheels above have American Classic hubs, etc...

So I was just curious what I higher end build like this comes out to. Seems like with components like that, they're really not much cheaper than the Rovals.

Am I off here?

Clearly they're cheaper than the EC90/Havens/Enve etc...


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

gcavy1 said:


> yeah, I'm aware of the prices on the rims and their wheelsets. I guess I don't know what a wheel builder typically charges. I saw that the wheels above have American Classic hubs, etc...
> 
> So I was just curious what I higher end build like this comes out to. Seems like with components like that, they're really not much cheaper than the Rovals.
> 
> ...


Still comes out quite a bit cheaper.

$350 for rims
$400 for hubs (rough guess on the AC price)
$64 for spokes assuming 32h (or about $150-$200 for cx-ray or aerolite)
$15 for nipples
$40-$70 build labor if you're not doing it yourself.

So still significantly cheaper than rovals.

As for the hubs, if you don't care for slightly heavier weight, imo go for the Hadley hubs.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

gcavy1 said:


> So I was just curious what I higher end build like this comes out to. Seems like with components like that, they're really not much cheaper than the Rovals.
> Am I off here? .


I know US prices are less, but here in Euroland a set of Roval carbons runs more than $2000usd, by my estimates a set of these with mid price hubs (pro 2 or similar) could be had around $6-700, so potentially a lot of change left over.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

gcavy1 said:


> So I was just curious what I higher end build like this comes out to. Seems like with components like that, they're really not much cheaper than the Rovals.


I think you are comparing Alloy rim Rovals, the carbon version retail for $1700.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

gcavy1 said:


> yeah, I'm aware of the prices on the rims and their wheelsets. I guess I don't know what a wheel builder typically charges. I saw that the wheels above have American Classic hubs, etc...
> 
> So I was just curious what I higher end build like this comes out to. Seems like with components like that, they're really not much cheaper than the Rovals.
> 
> ...


im building a set with hadleys...say $350 for the rims, got a rear hub for $200 front $130 (found some deals on the cheap side, prob add about $100 to this normally), say $1.30 a spoke and nipple (without shopping around) on 32h is about $83, comes to around $763 in materials, roughly half the cost of the Rovals msrp at $1550

not sure what the labor charge for a build would be for you, add $100 to that and you are still beating the Rovals by a chunk


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

About flashing stickers, I painted mine because I want to macth them with my front roval one... Yes it screams a lot!


----------



## wakejunky (Feb 20, 2007)

bquinn said:


> A few pics


Do you know the specs on your spoke lengths? I'm thinking along the lines of doing what you did with the AM hubs (considering the hubs are relatively priced)


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Without spilling the beans on the deal my LBS gives me on parts, my set came in under 1K. The Roval Control Trail SL 142+ wheelset retails for $1700 and the dealer cost is over 1K, under $1300 (I don't want to spill those beans either). 

The AC hubs are fairly solid on their prices unless you happen to come across some great deal online I don't know about.

So as far as price goes, there is nothing that compares even if you get the Roval's at dealer cost which is what I was originally going to do. 

I would rather have had the Specialized/DT Swiss hubs or just plain DT 240s, but the extra cost was not worth it at this point. This will be the first rear AC hub I have used so the jury is out for a long time on this one.

I like the no sticker look, but if there was a simple design I would not be against it. Also, the 3K weave IMO doesn't jump out at ya from typical viewing distance. You have to be fairly close to notice it.

Also, about tires seating. I have Schwalbe Racing Ralph TL-R 2.25 Snake Skins. I use the Slime Pro system exclusively. I have had mixed results on getting tires to seat with a floor pump in the past, but most will go on. I used Stan's 25mm yellow tape, installed myself for the 1st time. The tires would not seat with a floor pump even after brushing some sealant around the bead and rim cavity. With an air compressor they went no problem, BUT there was no noticeable POP like I usually get. Instead I heard multiple (probably around 10) small pops. I did NOT add sealant in any amount other than brushing some on like mentioned. I inflated to 60psi and let them sit over night. To my surprise the tires held air wonderfully over night, actually barely lost any pressure. It has now been 3 days and they are still holding great.

On my only test ride they spun up fast and felt weightless compared to OEM aluminum wheels in the ~1800gr range. 

Another note, I used Stan's tubeless valve and the inner valve hole in the rim (the one in the cavity) is 6mm which is the same diameter of a presta valve. Stan's valve has a rubber cone that sits in the valve hole but will not really sit down in the hole to seal properly at 6mm. I had to use a dremel tool with an abrasive bit to open the hole slightly for the cone to drop in a bit more. I am currently exchanging emails with Nancy about this and discussing options. If you care to provide your input on this please do so here.

If everyone can start to list their spoke tension that would be great since that seems to be still up in the air.


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## Nater (Jan 6, 2004)

bquinn said:


> Spoke length was 603 IIRC.


Not possible. Rim ERD is in the 600-603 range. Spoke length shouldf be about 290mm give or take a few.


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## CerveloMikey (Apr 12, 2006)

SlowerJoe said:


> funny thing is these look just like my carbon rovals once I got rid of my ugly red stickers
> my rims came in at 375 grams so these look like a steal
> 
> Sj
> p.s getting the stickers off a carbon roval is not worth your time


Stickers? My graphics seem to be silk screened on to the rim (paint or ink).

How did you get them off? Heat? Lacquer thinner?

I want to remove mine and paint the red spokes black.

I like stealth wheels over circus wheels!


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Nater said:


> Not possible. Rim ERD is in the 600-603 range. Spoke length shouldf be about 290mm give or take a few.


Sorry, I gave my builder the 603erd and he went from there. Not sure the spoke length.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

CerveloMikey said:


> Stickers? My graphics seem to be silk screened on to the rim (paint or ink).
> 
> How did you get them off? Heat? Lacquer thinner?
> 
> ...


I have a solution for you: just to order a complete set all in black to Nancy!


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

Just got my 29er wide UD matte rims. They are 384g and 389g. Sweet.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

I wish I knew more abour wheel building. I was about to pull the trigger on either the new AC Race 29er wheelset or some Stan's ZTR Gold wheels for my wife's new Tallboy Carbon SPX XC. However these rims just look too awesome. She only weighs 120lbs. and really deserves a lighter set of wheels compared to the Mavic 719/Dt Swiss 350 wheels that came on it. 

Any recommendations for her? I dig AC hubs. I'd also like to run it with a Hadley thru bolt on the rear and I think most AC rear hubs can convert to that (correct me if I'm wrong). I noticed these come in versions with a fewer spoke count. Is that wise to go that route being that she's so light? Or, is it better to just get the 32 hole with some really light spokes? 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just in need of some expert advice before I get something and regret it later. She deserves some bling but we can't afford Enves.

Forgot to mention, I may use her Dt Swiss 350 hubs and get a couple carbon rims for myself. I currently have some Alloy Havens. They're pretty good but I would really like something a little lighter and more stiff.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

TCW said:


> I wish I knew more abour wheel building. I was about to pull the trigger on either the new AC Race 29er wheelset or some Stan's ZTR Gold wheels for my wife's new Tallboy Carbon SPX XC. However these rims just look too awesome. She only weighs 120lbs. and really deserves a lighter set of wheels compared to the Mavic 719/Dt Swiss 350 wheels that came on it.
> 
> Any recommendations for her? I dig AC hubs. I'd also like to run it with a Hadley thru bolt on the rear and I think most AC rear hubs can convert to that (correct me if I'm wrong). I noticed these come in versions with a fewer spoke count. Is that wise to go that route being that she's so light? Or, is it better to just get the 32 hole with some really light spokes?
> 
> ...


What's your overall budget?

There seems to be nothing really spectacular about AC hubs other than their weight; very low poe from what I see.

If you want a awesome performing and lightweight build, I'd suggest DT 240s hubs (upgrade to 36poe), cx-ray or aerolite spokes, and alloy nipples. Price should be right around $1k per wheelset.


----------



## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

$1K is the budget. Any recommendations on best on-line sources for the spokes? Might just get the rims and work with the LBS for hubs and spokes. Hell, I don't know. Just wanna make the right choice for her. She digs her Tallboy a lot but often mentions how she's saving her pennies for a race wheelset. I just want her to not divorce me


----------



## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

I mean, just look at her. She's loves this bike more than her own parents. She needs more bling. That stock wheelset is just way heavy (really durable though) :thumbsup:


----------



## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

TCW said:


> $1K is the budget. Any recommendations on best on-line sources for the spokes? Might just get the rims and work with the LBS for hubs and spokes. Hell, I don't know. Just wanna make the right choice for her. She digs her Tallboy a lot but often mentions how she's saving her pennies for a race wheelset. I just want her to not divorce me


Prices are kind of all over the place depending what spokes you're looking for.

Best price I could find on the cx-ray were here:
Sapim CX-Ray 14g Bladed (black) Spoke - Outside Outfitters


----------



## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

*I will be riding a set on my new Highball build*

Thanks for all the info in this thread.

I placed order 7 days ago for front and back rims, 29 AM wider version.

I have a set of CK hubs that I will be building up, along with the Sapim sp? spokes that everyone seems to love on this thread.

Pics coming soon!


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

TCW said:


> I mean, just look at her. She's loves this bike more than her own parents. She needs more bling. That stock wheelset is just way heavy (really durable though) :thumbsup:


Don't worry about the bling... no-one will be looking at her bike.


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## Minimalist (Apr 14, 2006)

TCW said:


> $1K is the budget. Any recommendations on best on-line sources for the spokes? Might just get the rims and work with the LBS for hubs and spokes. Hell, I don't know. Just wanna make the right choice for her. She digs her Tallboy a lot but often mentions how she's saving her pennies for a race wheelset. I just want her to not divorce me


If you are worried about divorce you should increase the budget. The divorce would be much more.


----------



## gauvinra (Sep 28, 2010)

Good thread with lots of great info. So is the consensus here to get the wider AM rim for XC racing running tubeless? Thanks!

Rich


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

TCW said:


> I mean, just look at her. She's loves this bike more than her own parents. She needs more bling.


Yeah she's pretty good looking. A diamond tennis bracelet and earrings would bling her out nice.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

I'm no wheel building expert by any means, but I would think 28 spokes max with some high end light weight spokes would fit the bill for her. 

On another note. I took my new Stumpy with the carbon wheels down some stairs and off a few 2ft drops to flat concrete last night. The stairs had around 25-30 steps and I just plowed down them. These wheels feel so stiff! I have a feeling they are gonna hold up to lots of abuse (crossing fingers)!


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Good recommendations. Just a note, the wife thinks flat carbon bike parts are the blingiest things known to mankind. She thinks diamonds are pointless. So, 28 spokes are the way to go for her weight?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

bquinn said:


> Another note, I used Stan's tubeless valve and the inner valve hole in the rim (the one in the cavity) is 6mm which is the same diameter of a presta valve. Stan's valve has a rubber cone that sits in the valve hole but will not really sit down in the hole to seal properly at 6mm. I had to use a dremel tool with an abrasive bit to open the hole slightly for the cone to drop in a bit more. I am currently exchanging emails with Nancy about this and discussing options. If you care to provide your input on this please do so here.


I don't see this as an issue at all. The valve stem will seal just fine without opening up the hole. All the Al rims I have used Stans valve stems in have been the same way.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

What the ****? Does this woman really exist? If so, you gotta hold onto her tight cuz she is a keeper!


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

28 or 32 will be fine. The weight difference with cx rays should be about 37 grams between the two. Not that much if you ask me.

There are more replacement options out there for 32 hole stuff so a 28 hole setup might pose future compatibility issues.

For example, say you were unhappy with the rim and wanted to replace it with a Crest. But the crests only come in 32 hole for 29ers. You would have to look elsewere and compromise.

Just food for throught


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Has anyone done a tubeless conversion successfully on the lighter XC rims? I have a set of Bontrager Rythm strips sitting around.

Light bikes is saying a set of 26" AM rims are coming out. 23mm internal width, and UST. All sounds good, except it'll be around 470 - 490 grams  I think that's too heavy for a XC race wheelset.

So I'm thinking maybe picking up a set of light 330 gram rims, and lace them up with CX rays to my CK hubs.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

TCW said:


> Good recommendations. Just a note, the wife thinks flat carbon bike parts are the blingiest things known to mankind. She thinks diamonds are pointless. So, 28 spokes are the way to go for her weight?


Lucky bugger! I got my wife a set of Dura Ace road carbon wheels for her birthday last year, and she was pissed at me! You got it good bud!


----------



## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Sheepo5669 said:


> 28 or 32 will be fine. The weight difference with cx rays should be about 37 grams between the two. Not that much if you ask me.
> 
> There are more replacement options out there for 32 hole stuff so a 28 hole setup might pose future compatibility issues.
> 
> ...


Excellent point. I think I'll stick with 32 hole for the compatibilty reasons.

Also, is there a lighter XC version of these rims? I checked the website and only saw the 395 gram version. The XC version may suit her better since these wheels would be her race set. We got into Leadville 100 this year so the lighter the better. We could always throw the old pair, or my Havens back on for chunky rides.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

TCW said:


> Excellent point. I think I'll stick with 32 hole for the compatibilty reasons.
> 
> Also, is there a lighter XC version of these rims? I checked the website and only saw the 395 gram version. The XC version may suit her better since these wheels would be her race set. We got into Leadville 100 this year so the lighter the better. We could always throw the old pair, or my Havens back on for chunky rides.


There is a lighter XC set, but I'm wondering how well they work with tubeless setups. With her weight, I say get the lightest rims you can. :thumbsup:


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

TCW, good thinking, keep her happy.

Go DT Supercomp spokes, for hubs I'd go, DT 240, King, White Ind, or Hope.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

macming said:


> Lucky bugger! I got my wife a set of Dura Ace road carbon wheels for her birthday last year, and she was pissed at me! You got it good bud!


WTF, that's a great gift. Check out the wife's Valentine's day gifts this year. Some Iclic Times for the road bike, Terry Buttefly carbon saddle for the Tallboy, Oury grips, and lots of lube. Lube is good.

I suppose the XC version is more narrow. We were able to convert her Mavic 719 rims (narrow) to tubleless with relative ease using the Bontrager rims strips and valve. I'm surprised how well they hold air. The narrower Chinese Carbons might work well with those strips.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

macming said:


> Has anyone done a tubeless conversion successfully on the lighter XC rims? I have a set of Bontrager Rythm strips sitting around.
> 
> Light bikes is saying a set of 26" AM rims are coming out. 23mm internal width, and UST. All sounds good, except it'll be around 470 - 490 grams  I think that's too heavy for a XC race wheelset.
> 
> So I'm thinking maybe picking up a set of light 330 gram rims, and lace them up with CX rays to my CK hubs.


dont think they will be UST, but similar to the 29er wide rims (they are calling those tubeless compatible, but most rims can fall into the "compatible" category)...not sure what they actually mean by this term

you sure about that weight? the 29er wides are 400g, only rated around 5g heavier than the standard rim...the 26ers standards are 330g...i could see 370-390g's...470g seems way heavy


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

clewttu said:


> dont think they will be UST, but similar to the 29er wide rims (they are calling those tubeless compatible, but most rims can fall into the "compatible" category)...not sure what they actually mean by this term
> 
> you sure about that weight? the 29er wides are 400g, only rated around 5g heavier than the standard rim...the 26ers standards are 330g...i could see 370-390g's...470g seems way heavy


Has anyone gotten the smaller/ligher XC rims and slapped on a set of Bontrager Rythem strips and run them tubeless? I'm a bit surprised about the 470 gram weight myself, but here is the conversation:



> Hello Yang,
> 
> The weight will be around 470g to 490g.
> Yes, it is UST compatible, and the internal width is 23mm.
> ...


----------



## Nater (Jan 6, 2004)

TCW said:


> ...lots of lube.


Funny, this is what got my wife for Valentine's Day too!


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

crazy, guess i wont be purchasing for a while until they can get those weights sorted out


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I just ordered a set of 29er complete wheels from light-bicycle.com.

Novatec D711/712 hubs. Wider rims: 30mm. 28 spokes. Nancy says they'll weigh right around 1500 grams. Difference between the Novatec Hubs and Rotaz hubs was about 37 grams by my calculations.

I'll try tubeless myself. Some yellow tape, Stans valves and Stans sealant with Rocket Ron tires.

Now with the waiting...


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

TCW said:


> WTF, that's a great gift. Check out the wife's Valentine's day gifts this year. Some Iclic Times for the road bike, Terry Buttefly carbon saddle for the Tallboy, Oury grips, and lots of lube. Lube is good.
> 
> I suppose the XC version is more narrow. We were able to convert her Mavic 719 rims (narrow) to tubleless with relative ease using the Bontrager rims strips and valve. I'm surprised how well they hold air. The narrower Chinese Carbons might work well with those strips.


lol @ lube.

Those are pretty nice presents. I was surprised that my wife was a bit mad that I traded away those DA wheels this month for a TT bike, because I thought she didn't care 

The DA wheels have been replaced by a set of Zipp 404s, so I don't see what she has to complain about 

Keep us posted about your rim purchase, and how the tubeless conversion goes.

I'm still on the fence since I like wide rims, UST and a stiff wheel, but I want to see a bit of weight loss since I'm forking out $$. Otherwise, I'll just hold onto my DT Swiss 5.1Ds.


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## BamaCyclist (Dec 19, 2009)

connolm said:


> I just ordered a set of 29er complete wheels from light-bicycle.com.
> 
> Novatec D711/712 hubs. Wider rims: 30mm. 28 spokes. Nancy says they'll weigh right around 1500 grams. Difference between the Novatec Hubs and Rotaz hubs was about 37 grams by my calculations.
> 
> ...


Price?

This is probably the route I will go as well so keep us updated when you finally get these and start puttin some miles on em.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

connolm said:


> I just ordered a set of 29er complete wheels from light-bicycle.com.
> 
> Novatec D711/712 hubs. Wider rims: 30mm. 28 spokes. Nancy says they'll weigh right around 1500 grams. Difference between the Novatec Hubs and Rotaz hubs was about 37 grams by my calculations.
> 
> ...


not sure what your requirements are, but the Novatec D881/D882 hubs are convertible to various front and rear axles for down the road


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

BamaCyclist said:


> Price?
> 
> This is probably the route I will go as well so keep us updated when you finally get these and start puttin some miles on em.


should be right around $600


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

clewttu said:


> not sure what your requirements are, but the Novatec D881/D882 hubs are convertible to various front and rear axles for down the road


At $600 this sounds too good to be true. Can the Novatec hubs do 15mm thru axel in the front and 10 x 135mm thru-bolt in th rear?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

TCW said:


> At $600 this sounds too good to be true. Can the Novatec hubs do 15mm thru axel in the front and 10 x 135mm thru-bolt in th rear?


yes, dont know how easy the convertible axles are to get, but i assume you can order them how you want them set up...build quality from the chinese guys may not be great though, and who knows what spokes and nipples they use
881 Front
882 Rear

videos
881 Front
882 Rear


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

It came to $598 with shipping and handling.

Wish I would have known that about the D881/882 hubs!


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## anomaly (Jun 18, 2007)

They can do 15mm front, not sure on the rear.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Although it looks a like a weight penalty and 32/36 spoke holes. (Just did quick check with _The Google_.)

Nancy had the 30mm wider rims in stock in the 28 spoke configuration.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

connolm said:


> It came to $598 with shipping and handling.
> 
> Wish I would have known that about the D881/882 hubs!


contact them


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## stinkyto (Feb 17, 2010)

To the people who are wondering about the d881 and d882 hubs. I am also thinking about ordering a complete wheelset as it would be closest to my budget.
the d882 or rear hub will and esaily convert to all of the new standards. I need a 12x142mm and this is the hub they have that will do this. it will also do 12mmx135, 10mmx135, and a 9mmXquick release.
From what I have been able to figure out prowling around on the web, the novatec hubs are a basic but serviceable hub. expect to get one season out of the stock bearings then replace them with something of good quality. 
Other brands use their hub as house brands, Norco Axiom hubs are novatecs and Rocky Mountain wheeltec hubs are novatecs. I did notice that Norco is using novatec hubs as novatecs on the 2012 entry level Aurum.
Anyone who gets a prebuilt please let me know what they are like. I want to replace the stock wheels on my element 950.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

connolm said:


> I just ordered a set of 29er complete wheels from light-bicycle.com.
> 
> Novatec D711/712 hubs. Wider rims: 30mm. 28 spokes. Nancy says they'll weigh right around 1500 grams. Difference between the Novatec Hubs and Rotaz hubs was about 37 grams by my calculations.
> 
> ...


Very interested to hear how these go as well. What was the lead time to have them made up?


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

I'd like to suggest moving the "keep your wife happy" topic to it's own thread.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

tehschkott said:


> I'd like to suggest moving the "keep your wife happy" topic to it's own thread.


Is it because it has nothing to do with the subject? Or is it because it is precisely about the subject?


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

What's the spec on "keeping the better half happy" for these rims? 

I find the alloy ones can get a little bit bent out of shape, but can be replaced relatively cheaply. Does the carbon provide a bit more flexibility before it, ultimately, snaps?


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

...


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

TCW said:


> Is it because it has nothing to do with the subject? Or is it because it is precisely about the subject?


Make a new thread and we'll all ogle your girl over there.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

bt said:


> Make a new thread and we'll all ogle your girl over there.


Thanks but no thanks. I'll continue to ask questions about the Chinese carbon rims in this thread. I may want a pair for myself. If she ends up with a set and I post a picture of her with her new rims will you cry? Is proper mtbr protocol to allow a woman to post her impressions on wheel performance? Or should I make her go back to the kitchen. Damn I'm hungry.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

TCW said:


> Thanks but no thanks. I'll continue to ask questions about the Chinese carbon rims in this thread. I may want a pair for myself. If she ends up with a set and I post a picture of her with her new rims will you cry? Is proper mtbr protocol to allow a woman to post her impressions on wheel performance? Or should I make her go back to the kitchen. Damn I'm hungry.


cool. keep it on topic and we'll all benefit from this good thread.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

This might work, let me know if my thinking is sound. After the wife gets her set of wheels I'll have her old Dt Swiss/Mavic TN719 wheel (DT Swiss double butted spokes). I found a thread discussing ERD of the 719s. Measurements were between 602 and 604. Does that mean I could simply relace the Carbon rims to the Dt Swiss hubs re-using the spokes? Is there any danger doing such a thing? This might make a nice upgrade for me as my Havens are giving me some problems with the rear hub. I also like the idea of upgrading the 350 hub to a 10mm thru bolt and the 36 POE. Thoughts?


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Yes, you can reuse the spokes. No, there is no inherant danger unless the donor wheel is very old or has been braking spokes regularly from new, ie poorly built.


----------



## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Currently I'm getting a wheelset built with Pacenti TL28 rims, DT Supercomp spokes and Hadley hubs.

I'm considering switching to the Carbon rims and Sepim CX-ray spokes.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

TCW said:


> Is there any danger doing such a thing?


Not at all if, as mentioned, the components are in proper unworn working order. I'm doing a rim swap. Align and tape the new rim (ERD equivalent) to the old built rim, un-do the nipple, move it and the spoke over, re-do. One at a time. Then it is tension and true. Happens all of the time in the dark back rooms of bike shops coast to coast.


----------



## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

hogprint said:


> Not at all if, as mentioned, the components are in proper unworn working order. I'm doing a rim swap. Align and tape the new rim (ERD equivalent) to the old built rim, un-do the nipple, move it and the spoke over, re-do. One at a time. Then it is tension and true. Happens all of the time in the dark back rooms of bike shops coast to coast.


Awesome news. The wheels are practically new. Got the bike in December and only the light-weight wife has ridden them on mostly smooth trails. They are prefectly true.


----------



## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

TCW said:


> Awesome news. The wheels are practically new. Got the bike in December and only the light-weight wife has ridden them on mostly smooth trails. They are prefectly true.


I'd considering getting some CX Rays to further lose some weight from the wheelset. :thumbsup:


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

clewttu said:


> crazy, guess i wont be purchasing for a while until they can get those weights sorted out


They'll build to a specific weight. I ordered 36hole, 430 gram rims +/- 5 grams. For the price, I rolled the dice.


----------



## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

bquinn said:


> The AC hubs are fairly solid on their prices unless you happen to come across some great deal online I don't know about.
> 
> So as far as price goes, there is nothing that compares even if you get the Roval's at dealer cost which is what I was originally going to do.
> 
> I would rather have had the Specialized/DT Swiss hubs or just plain DT 240s, but the extra cost was not worth it at this point. This will be the first rear AC hub I have used so the jury is out for a long time on this one.


A riding buddy has had a set of AC AM 29er wheels for over a year now. He's around 240lbs. and is a torque monster. The AC hubs have been great, no issues at all. So, these new hubs will likely be excellent. I think for the price they might be the way to go for a light but durable build.

Did you happen to weigh your wheelset? Oh yeah, your wheels, with the red nipples look great. I'll probably use your pics for reference if I end up having the local shop build up a pair. They are fans of AC hubs/wheels and have a great relationship with them.


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

slurp


----------



## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

clewttu said:


> I know this is the 29er forum, but seems to be the official thread for these rims...They will be selling the wider version of the 26" rims towards the end of the month per Nancy at light-bicycle for anyone interested.


Excellent, Maybe like an all mountain rim or wide trail rim!!! That would be sweet


----------



## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

macming said:


> Has anyone gotten the smaller/ligher XC rims and slapped on a set of Bontrager Rythem strips and run them tubeless? I'm a bit surprised about the 470 gram weight myself, but here is the conversation:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good news! Nancy confirmed that 480 grams is a typo. The target weight is indeed 380 grams.



nancy said:


> Hello Ming,
> 
> The target weight is 380g, but the first rims will be heavier, and our prodcution line will try to make them light after doing some testing samples.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

The old piggyback trick? I would never do that to one of mine or a customers wheels!


Maybe to lace them but never to tension!


----------



## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Sheepo5669 said:


> The old piggyback trick? I would never do that to one of mine or a customers wheels!
> 
> Maybe to lace them but never to tension!


What's wrong with that approach? I see it done fairly often.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

macming said:


> What's wrong with that approach? I see it done fairly often.


I have never done it. So maybe I am just ignorant. But Its almost impossible to imagine a scenerio where you end up with the final result beinga round, true, perfectly dished, and even tensioned wheel.


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

macming said:


> Good news! Nancy confirmed that 480 grams is a typo. The target weight is indeed 380 grams.


nice, figured that to be the case since others reported 380 ish
there some discussion here about the 26" AM


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Sheepo5669 said:


> The old piggyback trick? I would never do that to one of mine or a customers wheels!
> 
> Maybe to lace them but never to tension!


Its just a lacing trick to save some time. You still have to tension/true as normal once all the spokes are transferred.


----------



## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Sheepo5669 said:


> Maybe to lace them but never to tension!


Just lacing. Super time saver. Tension and true is a totally separate process.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Well, That would make much more sense.


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> I probably would have taken the tension a bit higher.
> 20 on the Park TM-1 = 94 kgf if you're using the 2.0/1.8 Comps
> I'd probably go to 21.5-22.


Isn't 20 on the Park TM-1 for the 2.0/1.8 Comps = 110 kfg, since you measure/test the thinnest part of the spoke?


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Hmm, there's something loose in one of my rims, and I can't get it out... I'll keep shaking for a while though. Also, the valve-hole isn't centered between the adjacent spokes


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

two-one said:


> Hmm, there's something loose in one of my rims


do a inner cavity search.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

cytoe said:


> Isn't 20 on the Park TM-1 for the 2.0/1.8 Comps = 110 kfg, since you measure/test the thinnest part of the spoke?


No. You read the chart wrong.


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> No. You read the chart wrong.


Doh! You're right. Anyway, here's my just-finished wheels. These are the 2nd set of wheels I've built...ever. Took forever, but came out great (guess we'll see later )

29er Wide matte UD finish, Sapim Race spokes, DT nips, DT 240s CL hubs (front 15qr, rear 10mm through axle)

front 740g
back 845g


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

two-one said:


> Hmm, there's something loose in one of my rims, and I can't get it out... I'll keep shaking for a while though. Also, the valve-hole isn't centered between the adjacent spokes


Its probably a piece of bladder, thin clear plastic. Use a blow gun to get it visible and it will pull right out. One of my rims had a couple of pieces in it.

cytoe, did you mount your tires tubeless?


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

two-one said:


> Also, the valve-hole isn't centered between the adjacent spokes


that sounds pretty hack... how far off is it? pic?


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> Its probably a piece of bladder, thin clear plastic. Use a blow gun to get it visible and it will pull right out. One of my rims had a couple of pieces in it.
> 
> cytoe, did you mount your tires tubeless?


Yes. The 2.4 Ardent went on easy, while the Ikon took some tire massaging for the air to take. I used home brew sealant and a compressor.


----------



## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

cytoe said:


> Yes. The 2.4 Ardent went on easy, while the Ikon took some tire massaging for the air to take. I used home brew sealant and a compressor.


Did you just do a layer of yellow tape?


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

macming said:


> Did you just do a layer of yellow tape?


Yup.


----------



## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

cytoe said:


> Yup.


That's very encouraging! I'm eyeing a set of 26" of the AM carbon wheels, and tubeless is a MUST! :thumbsup:

Thanks for the write up on your experience


----------



## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

macming said:


> That's very encouraging! I'm eyeing a set of 26" of the AM carbon wheels, and tubeless is a MUST! :thumbsup:
> 
> Thanks for the write up on your experience


I'm excited too! Can't decide on UD or 3k yet though.


----------



## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

cytoe said:


> Doh! You're right. Anyway, here's my just-finished wheels. These are the 2nd set of wheels I've built...ever. Took forever, but came out great (guess we'll see later )
> 
> 29er Wide matte UD finish, Sapim Race spokes, DT nips, DT 240s CL hubs (front 15qr, rear 10mm through axle)
> 
> ...


The wheels turned out great! How do you find the quality of the rim btw?

Was it well constructed, with even spoke bed thickness all the way around? Was the ERD the same as advertised?


----------



## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

I've been following this thread since day 2 and I can relate to the excitement that a carbon fibre rim option can be had cheaply. However please help me understand, what is the real attraction to carbon rims when the Stan's Crest costs cheaper and weighs less?


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> that sounds pretty hack... how far off is it? pic?


It's only off by a millimeter or two... so it may not be very visible. I didnt notice it myself at first.
(still waiting for the spokes to arrive... i'll take pictures when its done)


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

macming said:


> The wheels turned out great! How do you find the quality of the rim btw?
> 
> Was it well constructed, with even spoke bed thickness all the way around? Was the ERD the same as advertised?


The spoke bed thickness seemed even, however the rim bed isn't. This doesn't seem like a problem. A few of the spoke holes were tight. Overall, the rims met my expectations build wise, and we're even lighter than quoted (actual is 384/389g). When the rubber meets the trail and I still have my teeth, I'll know for sure. They sure feel solid and I tensioned the spokes evenly, so I have high hopes. Perhaps I'll be redoing my SS wheels soon :thumbsup:


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

FireSpitter said:


> I've been following this thread since day 2 and I can relate to the excitement that a carbon fibre rim option can be had cheaply. However please help me understand, what is the real attraction to carbon rims when the Stan's Crest costs cheaper and weighs less?


Supposedly stiffer and wider at the same weight as the Crest. Weight limit on these are 100 kg (220 lbs) where as the Crest 29 wheels have a limit of 190 lbs.

But, all has to be proven. I received my set of rims as well, now waiting for spokes and hub to form my own opinion on these


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

cytoe said:


> The spoke bed thickness seemed even, however the rim bed isn't. This doesn't seem like a problem. A few of the spoke holes were tight. Overall, the rims met my expectations build wise, and we're even lighter than quoted (actual is 384/389g). When the rubber meets the trail and I still have my teeth, I'll know for sure. They sure feel solid and I tensioned the spokes evenly, so I have high hopes. Perhaps I'll be redoing my SS wheels soon :thumbsup:


Good thing is you won't need front teeth to warn us if these explode 

My set has the same tightness on some spoke holes, where as some other holes have ample space. What spoke tension did you use to lace these up?


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

figo said:


> Good thing is you won't need front teeth to warn us if these explode
> 
> My set has the same tightness on some spoke holes, where as some other holes have ample space. What spoke tension did you use to lace these up?


About 120kgf


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

I only took mine to around 100kgf and they are much stiffer than my Arch front rim built to about the same tension.


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## Scotto (Mar 25, 2004)

FireSpitter said:


> I've been following this thread since day 2 and I can relate to the excitement that a carbon fibre rim option can be had cheaply. However please help me understand, what is the real attraction to carbon rims when the Stan's Crest costs cheaper and weighs less?


Carbon rims built up way stiffer than alloy rims. Stiffer wheels transfer power better and track & handle better than alloy.
A few reports on tubeless applications are showing positive results and with Maxxis tires and a single layer of Stan's tape. Very encouraging!!!!


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

cytoe said:


> Yes. The 2.4 Ardent went on easy, while the Ikon took some tire massaging for the air to take. I used home brew sealant and a compressor.


Thanks cytoe. I have always had to fold the Ikons inside-out and let them sit for a day before mounting, even on Stans rims. They bead instantly with compressed air with this method. I taped my rims with yellow tape, but currently have a RR front and Nano rear with tubes until I get a chance to mount the Ikons tubeless.

I tensioned my rims to 120kgf as well with Sapim Laser spokes. They are by far the best wheels I have built in both true and tension balance. I've got a total of 5hrs ride time on smooth singletrack. I can notice a very slight increase in stiffness but nothing "life changing" like most of the carbon rim reviews you read. The true test will be when I get the Ikons mounted and can do a direct comparison with the Crests. More interested to see how much lower I can go on tire pressure without tire squirm.

As I already noted, the spoke bed thickness is consistent on the two rims I got. I measured the ERD in several spots on both rims and it was in the range of 601.5-602. The bead seat diameter varies slightly, and is uneven laterally in some spots. Overall, I am very satisfied with the rim fabrication quality.


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## Scotto (Mar 25, 2004)

KTM I am going to thank you for your comparison ahead of time. I can't wait to hear how it goes for you, please don't skip any details.
You have the exact setup I want: carbon AM, tubeless with 1 layer of Stan's tape and running Maxxis IKON's.


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## Napfgeist (Jan 4, 2004)

macming said:


> Good news! Nancy confirmed that 480 grams is a typo. The target weight is indeed 380 grams.


I can confirm that, because I asked Nancy again via e-mail about the real weight of the 30mm rim:



Nancy Yu from light-bicycles: said:


> Hello sir,
> 
> The real weight for 30mm wide rim is around 400g, some are less than 395g, some are heavy ( about 420g). So, if you like light rims, we will make your wheels with rims less than 390g, but you have to wait, sometimes, we can get the light rims from production line.
> 
> Is that clear now? I am sorry for the confustion.


Just ordered one set today with Novatec D711/D712, 28H and 30mm rims.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Cytoe, how accurate are those photos representing the matte UD compared to in person?
Its what I'm leaning towards


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

figo said:


> Supposedly stiffer and wider at the same weight as the Crest. Weight limit on these are 100 kg (220 lbs) where as the Crest 29 wheels have a limit of 190 lbs.
> 
> But, all has to be proven. I received my set of rims as well, now waiting for spokes and hub to form my own opinion on these


Thanks for the reply.


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

Scotto said:


> Carbon rims built up way stiffer than alloy rims. Stiffer wheels transfer power better and track & handle better than alloy.
> A few reports on tubeless applications are showing positive results and with Maxxis tires and a single layer of Stan's tape. Very encouraging!!!!


Thanks for the reply.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

clewttu said:


> Cytoe, how accurate are those photos representing the matte UD compared to in person?
> Its what I'm leaning towards


There's more variation when the light hits it, though it is still pretty bland. I'll probably do 3k or 12k finish if I build another set up.


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## C.Jason (Feb 14, 2012)

rkappius said:


> I've seen multiple discussions of carbon 29er frames, but no such discussion of 29er rims. Current domestic carbon rims are more expensive than one of these frames. Anybody found carbon 29er clincher rims cheap?


We have 23.5mm clincher carbon rims for 29er mtb, $140/pc, see some photos for this 29er carbon mtb wheelset for reference.

This is Jason from Carbonal bike.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I received my set of beefed up wide 29ers. Quite frankly I am stunned at the quality of these rims. The finish on mine are perfect, the rim beds even and smooth, no issues at all. At 110kg I wanted an extra measure of confidence thus my rims both came in at 430 grams exactly as ordered. The shipping speed was also amazing. They left China on the 24th and I have them today, the 28th. I had originally purchased these for my gravel grinder rig but at the 27mm width and the 430g weight they may serve better on my Jet 9. So now to decide to replace the Flows on my I9's or the Flows on my Kings.....


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## -Boat- (Feb 20, 2012)

They look really nice. Hope they hold up...


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## shutterbug67 (May 16, 2007)

hogprint said:


> I received my set of beefed up wide 29ers. Quite frankly I am stunned at the quality of these rims. The finish on mine are perfect, the rim beds even and smooth, no issues at all. At 110kg I wanted an extra measure of confidence thus my rims both came in at 430 grams exactly as ordered. The shipping speed was also amazing. They left China on the 24th and I have them today, the 28th. I had originally purchased these for my gravel grinder rig but at the 27mm width and the 430g weight they may serve better on my Jet 9. So now to decide to replace the Flows on my I9's or the Flows on my Kings.....


What do you mean by beefed up? Did you have them do something special to yours?


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Shutterbug, if you read through this thread, you'll find you can order them at increased weights, meaning they'll add extra carbon to the rims for big boys and girls. I also ordered a set at 430g weights, instead of the 405g spec.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

This is wild man. Custom ordering carbon 29r rims, to your weight, from China...and they are turning out to be very high quality tubeless rims. To think 6 or 7 years ago..


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

hogprint said:


> At 110kg I wanted an extra measure of confidence thus my rims both came in at 430 grams exactly as ordered.


Sounds great! So you just told them your weight and they knew how much weight to add to the rim? No extra cost, right?

I'm 110kg riding weight myself, and I'm pretty tempted by these..


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Good read. Subscribing.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

indyfab25 said:


> This is wild man. Custom ordering carbon 29r rims, to your weight, from China...and they are turning out to be very high quality tubeless rims. To think 6 or 7 years ago..


Hard to beat custom weighted rims:thumbsup: .


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

What width of the external and internal for 26 inch rim available?


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Since my local trails aren't rideable I took the bike for a road spin the other day and went off numerous 3ft drops (off steps) and down a flight of ~25 stairs. So far so good on the rims. They feel so stiff and light as can be climbing!


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

wannabeRacer said:


> What width of the external and internal for 26 inch rim available?


Just ask Nancy!


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Has anyone asked Nancy Yu out yet?


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

yes I did and after I pop the question she said, 26 inch RIM specs are external 24.20mm, internal 17.80mm and height 22mm, and also all sold out on which she broke my heart ;(


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Lenny7 said:


> Has anyone asked Nancy Yu out yet?


I'm going out on a date with her tomorrow night. :thumbsup:


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

wannabeRacer said:


> yes I did and after I pop the question she said, 26 inch RIM specs are external 24.20mm, internal 17.80mm and height 22mm, and also all sold out on which she broke my heart ;(


That's awfully narrow... The AM model seems more appealling all of a sudden.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Total weight on my buildup was 1482 for the wider rims with dt 240 hubs 15mm without qr's, tape or valves. About 100 grams lighter than my xtr crest build and hopefully will last a little longer


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

AKamp said:


> Total weight on my buildup was 1482 for the wider rims with dt 240 hubs 15mm without qr's, tape or valves. About 100 grams lighter than my xtr crest build and hopefully will last a little longer


how much does it cost?


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## Snugglesthemonkey (Nov 10, 2010)

*I am not far from the Xiamen Fatory*

Hi Everybody!
I haven't had the chance to read through this entire thread but I LIVE NEAR THE XIAMEN BIKE FACTORY!
I don't know if this helps you guys, and gals, in anyway. I would be happy to go down there and look or ask questions and take pics if there is anything specific you would like to see. I might even pick up some rims for myself!
For reference I am an American and do not work for the factory, but would be interested in taking a looky-loo so might as well go armed with a camera and questions.
WARNING!
Many people on here are much more bike-pro than I, so please make your questions or pictures you want to see as specific as possible.
Cheers....
Also, my Elixir 5s are always squeaky, pistons never move correctly, and I hate them. Feels good to get that off my chest.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Perfect Gentleman said:


> how much does it cost?


Really not hard to price the parts yourself. 240s hubs aren't cheap so probably around $500 for the hubs. Not sure what spokes he used but 2.0/1.8 DB are $1 per spoke or $3.25 per spoke for Cx-ray.

Looks like his build is right around $950?



Snugglesthemonkey said:


> Hi Everybody!
> I haven't had the chance to read through this entire thread but I LIVE NEAR THE XIAMEN BIKE FACTORY!
> I don't know if this helps you guys, and gals, in anyway. I would be happy to go down there and look or ask questions and take pics if there is anything specific you would like to see. I might even pick up some rims for myself!
> For reference I am an American and do not work for the factory, but would be interested in taking a looky-loo so might as well go armed with a camera and questions.
> ...


Nice! I would love to see pictures of their factory.


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

anthonylokrn said:


> Really not hard to price the parts yourself. 240s hubs aren't cheap so probably around $500 for the hubs. Not sure what spokes he used but 2.0/1.8 DB are $1 per spoke or $3.25 per spoke for Cx-ray.
> Looks like his build is right around $950?


maybe they can buy 240s cheaper than we are.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

I had the hubs off of a previous build. But prices new would be a little under 1K. The spokes are CXRays which I got from treefort for $2.50 each on a pricematch. I had a bag of DT Prolock nips laying around but you can pick up nipples dirt cheep on ebay a lot of times, especially if you don't care about color. Overall I am pretty happy with the wheels, at least how they initially look and feel. Haven't gotten a chance to ride them yet but that should change soon.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I finally got Ikon EXO's mounted on my AM rims early this week. I used 25mm yellow tape and Stans valve stems. Tires beaded instantly with the first shot of compressed air and stayed beaded once pressure was released. As usual, tires had been sitting folded inside-out. I always mount the tires dry and then inject sealant through the valve stem after they have successfully beaded. No surprises here, bead sealed right up. Though, the bead seat isn't as tight as a Stans rim, but that has already been established.

Got in a ride on my rigid ss with the air pressure set the same as I would run on my P35 rims (18F/26R, 165lb). Again, no surprises, everything worked as expected, no noticeable tire squirm. I even hit a log pile harder than I should have and it more than likely collapsed the tire. No spooge or marks on the rim.

These rims are 200g lighter than a P35, so reduced rotating mass was noticeable, but I can't honestly say that I could "feel" any difference in stiffness.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

*Step one*

Finally got my hubs. Rims are in the mail. Wheel build should be ~1320g.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> Finally got my hubs. Rims are in the mail. Wheel build should be ~1320g.


Nice! My hyperlefty is on the mail, what spokes will you be using?


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

figo said:


> Nice! My hyperlefty is on the mail, what spokes will you be using?


Gonna wait to measure the ERD then order some CX-Ray's. My hubs got stuck in customs for over 10 days so it was almost three weeks from ordering to getting delivered. Are you going to be using the HypeRear also?


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

Lenny7 said:


> Has anyone asked Nancy Yu out yet?


She certainly is a looker! :thumbsup:


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> Gonna wait to measure the ERD then order some CX-Ray's. My hubs got stuck in customs for over 10 days so it was almost three weeks from ordering to getting delivered. Are you going to be using the HypeRear also?


Not for the first set, planning to lace up my powertap. Might go for the hypercamber in a while if I want to shave off some weight


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> Finally got my hubs. Rims are in the mail. Wheel build should be ~1320g.


Nice hubs! Those things are ridiculously light. I don't even want to know the pricetag. To bad they have very little effect on wheel inertia.


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

ktm520 said:


> To bad they have very little effect on wheel inertia.


true, but those grams still count when you're climbing a mountain.


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## Snugglesthemonkey (Nov 10, 2010)

If I go visit the factory I might have to pick up a set of rims! Why the wider ones over the regular?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Snugglesthemonkey said:


> If I go visit the factory I might have to pick up a set of rims! Why the wider ones over the regular?


Wider ones yield a beer tire profile so you get more traction, and a supple ride.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

..and because wider rims are more awesomerer than narrow ones!


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## girlscantell (Oct 19, 2008)

Just checking....does anyone have complaints about these rims? Im about to order the 29er rims.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

girlscantell said:


> Just checking....does anyone have complaints about these rims? Im about to order the 29er rims.


so far I have no complaints.

my rims are due to arrive 03-18-12


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> To bad they have very little effect on wheel inertia.


wheel inertia is of very little, if any, importance. :thumbsup:


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

wheel inertia... rotational mass... whatever you want to call it. i think he's getting at the fact that acceleration is affected more by taking 100 grams off the rim than by taking it off the hub.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

As much as I believe it makes sense to keep things light, it makes sense to keep it in perspective. Saving a few grams at the rim and then slapping a 600 grams tire even further from the center makes a few grams weight saving insignificant.. 

For me, it's first function and then weight. Planning on an Hyperlefty/CX-ray build with these rims to come up with a strong and light weight set, which I'm assuming will ride better than other wheels in it's price and weight class.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

kevrider said:


> wheel inertia... rotational mass... whatever you want to call it. i think he's getting at the fact that acceleration is affected more by taking 100 grams off the rim than by taking it off the hub.


While there might be a theoretical basis for that commonly tossed around bit of dynamics, what I said stands... little if any difference.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

figo said:


> As much as I believe it makes sense to keep things light, it makes sense to keep it in perspective. Saving a few grams at the rim and then slapping a 600 grams tire even further from the center makes a few grams weight saving insignificant..
> 
> For me, it's first function and then weight. Planning on an Hyperlefty/CX-ray build with these rims to come up with a strong and light weight set, which I'm assuming will ride better than other wheels in it's price and weight class.


If function first then why spend 3x the money on bladed spokes that offer you no performance benefit over their round counterparts in the same weight class (Lasers)?


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> If function first then why spend 3x the money on bladed spokes that offer you no performance benefit over their round counterparts in the same weight class (Lasers)?


Short answer, because I can ;-). Longer answer is that I have good experiences with CX-rays, haven't used the lasers but I understood their fatigue life is shorter than the CX-rays. I build and repair my own wheels but like to spend as little time doing the wrenching as possible, so any broken spoke due to fatigue is expensive time for me, so the few euros extra on a build is marginal compared to the hours I spend on building/maintaining the wheels.


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> While there might be a theoretical basis for that commonly tossed around bit of dynamics, what I said stands... little if any difference.


not "might be" there "is" basis. but this is a different thread, i imagine it's here already....


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> wheel inertia is of very little, if any, importance. :thumbsup:


Sorry, would you have been happier if I had said "mass moment"?? I'm missing your point.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

girlscantell said:


> Just checking....does anyone have complaints about these rims? Im about to order the 29er rims.


In case of a crash, it will crack or broke VS bends for alloy rim. If you don't like rigid ride, those carbon rims are way stiffer than standard alloy rim. The interior bead seat are not as round as the exterior of the rim but compare to Roval, there's no difference. Roval have the same unround interior. For the asking price of about 200$ per rim, similar to worldcup xc champion rim in apperence, wider, light, rigid, not about to complain!


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## Snugglesthemonkey (Nov 10, 2010)

I can't wait to see if that is really her. I am a little suspicious of those company pictures. They might be stock photos from the internet.



Cable0guy said:


> She certainly is a looker! :thumbsup:


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## BikeShopMonkey (Nov 18, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> If function first then why spend 3x the money on bladed spokes that offer you no performance benefit over their round counterparts in the same weight class (Lasers)?


because they are more "aero"


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

figo said:


> Saving a few grams at the rim and then slapping a 600 grams tire even further from the center makes a few grams weight saving insignificant..
> .


This has been debated to death, but for me.. I will try to reduce any weight that I can without compromising durability (if I can prevent it). My first target is rotational mass working furthest out to center of rotation. So first is tires can't go too light due to lots of sharp rocks here in Southwest (maybe I'm a crappy rider). The Maxxis Ignitor EXO's work best *for me*.. Then rims, the stiffer the better *for me *(185lbs)&#8230; Then down the list spokes, pedals, shoes, hubs, chain, chain rings/cassette. My Tallboy is down to 23.9lbs and that bike is flying. The lighter it gets, the more WW I become&#8230;

I got the Hyper Hubs because DT hubs are expensive anyways and thought, what the hell 2/3 the price of the Hypers. I also like the straight pull spokes used on the Hyper Hubs. Also this wheel build is still going to be cheaper than the Roval wheelset even with a %20 discount. 
This past weekend I changed out my rear cassette to the XG999 from my XT which is about 125g lighter, and yes it does matter, at least *for me.*


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> This has been debated to death, but for me.. I will try to reduce any weight that I can without compromising durability (if I can prevent it). My first target is rotational mass working furthest out to center of rotation. So first is tires can't go too light due to lots of sharp rocks here in Southwest (maybe I'm a crappy rider). The Maxxis Ignitor EXO's work best *for me*.. Then rims, the stiffer the better *for me *(185lbs)&#8230; Then down the list spokes, pedals, shoes, hubs, chain, chain rings/cassette. My Tallboy is down to 23.9lbs and that bike is flying. The lighter it gets, the more WW I become&#8230;
> 
> I got the Hyper Hubs because DT hubs are expensive anyways and thought, what the hell 2/3 the price of the Hypers. I also like the straight pull spokes used on the Hyper Hubs. Also this wheel build is still going to be cheaper than the Roval wheelset even with a %20 discount.
> This past weekend I changed out my rear cassette to the XG999 from my XT which is about 125g lighter, and yes it does matter, at least *for me.*


Fully agree, just to be clear, I commented on the hub weight savings part. Seems I'll have most of the same build as you have so can't disagree too much on your choices


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## stinkyto (Feb 17, 2010)

I just got a RM Element 950 with dt swiss 485d rims and a wheel tech hubs(exactly the same as novatecs hubs) I am looking for anyone who could tell me if buying the stock light-bicycle wheels would be of a significant weight savings vs the stock RM wheels.
does 485d mean 485 grams for DT Swiss or is it a product number? Since the hubs would be the same on both models the only differences would be in the rims, spokes and nipples. Is it worth the 5 -6 hundred to buy the light-bicycle wheelset or not? I do not have a 1k as a budget.
Any help out there? 
P.S I do not have scales to do my own measurements.
Thanks


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

for rims it should represent weight, not accounting for production tolerances, but for complete wheelsts it's just a number, it is sometime helpful for establishing weight but it depends on a case by case basis, usually you add ~10%


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

BikeShopMonkey said:


> because they are more "aero"


Barely. Also, you spending a lot of time going 30mph on your MTB?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

stinkyto said:


> I just got a RM Element 950 with dt swiss 485d rims and a wheel tech hubs(exactly the same as novatecs hubs) I am looking for anyone who could tell me if buying the stock light-bicycle wheels would be of a significant weight savings vs the stock RM wheels.
> does 485d mean 485 grams for DT Swiss or is it a product number? Since the hubs would be the same on both models the only differences would be in the rims, spokes and nipples. Is it worth the 5 -6 hundred to buy the light-bicycle wheelset or not? I do not have a 1k as a budget.
> Any help out there?
> P.S I do not have scales to do my own measurements.
> Thanks


The light bicycles wheelset will end up around $600 after shipping/taxes. I say buy the new wheelset, sell yours, and hopefully you end up only $300 out of pocket.


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## FLAFIRE (Jun 17, 2009)

yes plus or minus 10


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

600 gram 29er tires are considered heavy??


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

bt said:


> 600 gram 29er tires are considered heavy??


not light, anyway. download the mf spreadsheet from his sig.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Wowsers! Off topic these days?


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

I just bought 2 AM Matte, 12k rims. Not is a hurry to get them built up but I thought I'd get the ball rolling.


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## girlscantell (Oct 19, 2008)

I just bought some, as well. It seems that Nancy replies to emails 24 hrs a day. Impressive. Also, the charge for decals for two rims is $51. Something to keep in mind.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

girlscantell said:


> I just bought some, as well. It seems that Nancy replies to emails 24 hrs a day. Impressive. Also, the charge for decals for two rims is $51. Something to keep in mind.


Maybe Nancy is not a girl, and she's not alone!

I'm going to receive mine this week, after a build, I will test lateral stiffness side by side some 32h, 24h and i9 on arch, all rear wheel.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

figo said:


> Short answer, because I can ;-). Longer answer is that I have good experiences with CX-rays,


that's the best reason I've heard. :thumbsup:


figo said:


> haven't used the lasers but I understood their fatigue life is shorter than the CX-rays. I build and repair my own wheels but like to spend as little time doing the wrenching as possible, so any broken spoke due to fatigue is expensive time for me, so the few euros extra on a build is marginal compared to the hours I spend on building/maintaining the wheels.


i've not seen anything to support this fatigue life comparison... except for the cartoon figure from the company that markets and sells the "Indy car" of spokes.
it is *not even close* to as simple as "a few extra euros" translating into "hours [saved] building/maintaining the wheels." if only it were... 
from where I sit the premium is over USD$100 to get Rays/Aerolites over Lasers/Revos. 
here's another consideration: the forging process makes the steel in cx-rays more brittle and they have much larger surface area, so they are more likely to sustain impacts and more susceptible to impacts when they do get hit, that is, if you wanted some more theory to factor into your equation.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

I would love to see some of this theory in practice, how hard can it be to test the whole range on spokes on the market on flexibility, impact resistance, fatigue resistance, etc. 

Considering the cost of rims and hubs I don't think spokes are too much of a factor when building a high end wheel. And so far, I have had quite a few DT DB spokes fail on my, especially on the rear wheel where as the only broken CX-rays I've had involved major things like another rider's bar getting stuck in the wheel and still only taking out 1 spoke, so I can't say I've had a problem with it's brittleness.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

figo said:


> I would love to see some of this theory in practice, how hard can it be to test the whole range on spokes on the market on flexibility, impact resistance, fatigue resistance, etc.


Likely more difficult than you are imagining. All of those processes are stochastic, meaning you need extremely *LARGE* sample sizes to determine averages that have high standard deviations.
Plus the work on steel has been done and published for a long time... most people on forums just don't want to spend the time to get informed enough (if they aren't already) to understand or talk knowledgeably it. They hear & see marketing that CX Rays are "stronger" than other spokes but don't understand what that means (a deliberate product of the marketing). That's why cartoon "test" figures work. Another complicating factor added by the wide scatter in data is that just because an average says something is more likely to happen doesn't mean it plays out that way in practice every time, so there are people with experiences that fall outside of those favored by probability.


figo said:


> Considering the cost of rims and hubs I don't think spokes are too much of a factor when building a high end wheel. And so far, I have had quite a few DT DB spokes fail on my, especially on the rear wheel where as the only broken CX-rays I've had involved major things like another rider's bar getting stuck in the wheel and still only taking out 1 spoke, so I can't say I've had a problem with it's brittleness.


If they offer no benefit, then what is there to "factor" in for the added expense?
If you've had luck with Rays, by all means keep using them, but your experience doesn't change the basic facts of the properties of steel. I've seen a particularly high number of failures of SuperComps at the nipple, but they work fine for plenty of people. Experiences, which are all any single person has to talk from, usually represent statistically laughable sample sizes and therefore are pretty worthless in establishing anything conclusive. :thumbsup:


----------



## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> If they offer no benefit, then what is there to "factor" in for the added expense?
> If you've had luck with Rays, by all means keep using them, but your experience doesn't change the basic facts of the properties of steel. I've seen a particularly high number of failures of SuperComps at the nipple, but they work fine for plenty of people. Experiences, which are all any single person has to talk from, usually represent statistically laughable sample sizes and therefore are pretty worthless in establishing anything conclusive. :thumbsup:


Fair enough, I don't have the sample in range nor in volume. Any tips for alternatives for the CX-rays for building a weight conscious wheel with these carbon rims? Spokes need to be straight pull as I have an SP hub which kind of limits the options I guess.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> Sorry, would you have been happier if I had said "mass moment"?? I'm missing your point.


it's not what you call it, it's the fundamental issue, which is that weight distribution in a wheel (within the bounds of commercially avaialable prducts) has very little if any effect on overall perfomance, either in theory (calculated) or in practice (measured).
the physics-light banter that is freely tossed around in cycling forums gets far more attention than the difference the phenomena actually make or don't make in performance.
:thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

figo said:


> Fair enough, I don't have the sample in range nor in volume. Any tips for alternatives for the CX-rays for building a weight conscious wheel with these carbon rims? Spokes need to be straight pull as I have an SP hub which kind of limits the options I guess.


The round steel counterparts offer the same performance at a fraction of the cost. I'm not sure of availability in straight pull, but comparable to a CX Ray would be: Sapim Laser, DT Swiss Revolution, or Wheelsmith XL14.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> it's not what you call it, it's the fundamental issue, which is that weight distribution in a wheel (within the bounds of commercially avaialable prducts) has very little if any effect on overall perfomance, either in theory (calculated) or in practice (measured).


Roger that, and couldn't agree more:thumbsup:


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

wobbem said:


> This:thumbsup:


21 or23


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

Slightly off-topic of the rims but....Any advantage doing something like Revo NDS and Comp or Supercomp DS? A well know wheelbuilder built me a set of wheels this way. His opinion was it made the rear wheel more responsive when accelerating.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

rockinrod42 said:


> Slightly off-topic of the rims but....Any advantage doing something like Revo NDS and Comp or Supercomp DS? A well know wheelbuilder built me a set of wheels this way. His opinion was it made the rear wheel more responsive when accelerating.


the advantage is extra weight over just using Revos all around, which helps keep that momentum through the tech. :arf:

"more responsive when accelerating" is blowing smoke. full of crap, but that doesn't mean he's not a great wheelbuilder. some of my favorite people are full fo crap.


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## Rucker61 (Jul 21, 2006)

Snugglesthemonkey said:


> If I go visit the factory I might have to pick up a set of rims! Why the wider ones over the regular?


I'd be surprised if you could get anything from the factory, as their license is likely to be export-only, which means everything they make has to be sold outside of China proper. You might want to look for a white van.

Similarly, I'd be surprised if they let you in the factory, and even more so if they let you take photos. I visit a lot of factories in China, representing a company that spends billions of dollars in China, and they won't let me take photos of their actual production lines.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Just received mine at 385g each. Yeah!


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

*Light biycyle lead time*

I'm getting anxious to build up these rims- for those of you that have received the 29 AM carbon rims from Light bicycle within the last few weeks, How long did you have to wait?


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Ordered and paid on the 19th of Feb, shipped the 24th of Feb, arrived the 29th of Feb.

Ordered 12k matte, wide 29er with some extra beef for my 110kg lard can. I accepted 3k matte as they ran out of the 12K matte and getting more of that weave would have delayed a few days. I took the 3K as they had a set ready to go. All of the finishes look decent in their own way, IMHO.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

hogprint said:


> Ordered and paid on the 19th of Feb., shipped the 24th of Feb. arrived the 29th of Feb.


Nice! We need MORE build reviews 

I'm itching to order the new 26" AM rims, but they aren't ready yet!

I'm hoping to see lots of glowing reviews before I buy :thumbsup:


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## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

*spoke question*

would you recommend revos for a guy about 190 on a FS? i was thinking maybe they would be too flexy. supercomps be any better in your opinion?



meltingfeather said:


> the advantage is extra weight over just using Revos all around, which helps keep that momentum through the tech. :arf:
> 
> "more responsive when accelerating" is blowing smoke. full of crap, but that doesn't mean he's not a great wheelbuilder. some of my favorite people are full fo crap.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

I ordered a set of the wide 29er rims in UD gloss, 32 hole. Going to lace them up with DT comps, alloy nips on some silver Hope Pro II EVO hubs (SS trials rear hub). Cannot wait! I ordered this morning.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

2Slo4U said:


> There is a thread over on rbr.com about someone visiting one of these factories over in china. On my handheld or I would post the link. If I recall correctly, they were very inviting to the visitors and they posted pictures of their visit


Indeed. I remember reading the thread on RBR about a year ago. Lots of pictures and the people were very inviting.

The factory also looked very professional.


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## 2Slo4U (Jan 12, 2004)

Rucker61 said:


> I'd be surprised if you could get anything from the factory, as their license is likely to be export-only, which means everything they make has to be sold outside of China proper. You might want to look for a white van.
> 
> Similarly, I'd be surprised if they let you in the factory, and even more so if they let you take photos. I visit a lot of factories in China, representing a company that spends billions of dollars in China, and they won't let me take photos of their actual production lines.


There is a thread over on rbr.com about someone visiting one of these factories over in china. On my handheld or I would post the link. If I recall correctly, they were very inviting to the visitors and they posted pictures of their visit


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## girlscantell (Oct 19, 2008)

*Availability*

It seems that the current batch of wider 29er rims will ship 3/18.


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## smoove_ride (Jun 13, 2008)

hey all... just got mine earlier this week. damn if they don't look *exactly* like my carbon rovals. i had to use calipers just to tell that they were in fact 2mm wider on the outside diameter... for all those that were bummed that they had to drill/dremel out the valve hole, i fitted a spare roval stem in there with no problems. maybe they are drilling the hole wider now??

anyways, what is everyone running for spoke tension on these? gonna lace these up to DT 240's using Revo's and just getting an idea what everybody is doing.

thanks.. -Smoove.


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## Quinner (Aug 29, 2011)

smoove_ride said:


> hey all... just got mine earlier this week. damn if they don't look *exactly* like my carbon rovals. i had to use calipers just to tell that they were in fact 2mm wider on the outside diameter... for all those that were bummed that they had to drill/dremel out the valve hole, i fitted a spare roval stem in there with no problems. maybe they are drilling the hole wider now??
> 
> anyways, what is everyone running for spoke tension on these? gonna lace these up to DT 240's using Revo's and just getting an idea what everybody is doing.
> 
> thanks.. -Smoove.


Pics or it didn't happen


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Rivet said:


> Barely. Also, you spending a lot of time going 30mph on your MTB?


barely would apply to a road bike on 23s. i doubt you'd see any effect with a 50(+)mm knobby tearing up the air around the wheel. :thumbsup:


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

bquinn said:


> Since my local trails aren't rideable I took the bike for a road spin the other day and went off numerous 3ft drops (off steps) and down a flight of ~25 stairs. So far so good on the rims. They feel so stiff and light as can be climbing!


What length of spokes did you use with your American Classic hubs?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Snugglesthemonkey said:


> I can't wait to see if that is really her. I am a little suspicious of those company pictures. They might be stock photos from the internet.


If you go you should check out their engineering department, quality control, and testing. Maybe take pictures of their testing equipment, the software they use and their QC methods.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

tonloc08 said:


> What length of spokes did you use with your American Classic hubs?


No clue, that's why I paid a wheel builder, sorry for the lack of info


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## D93 (Oct 19, 2011)

Has anyone put any ride time on these wheels yet?


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

D93 said:


> Has anyone put any ride time on these wheels yet?


Not me, it's winter here in Canada!

I have an issue with one of my rims. The hook that hold the tire is badly shaped on 2 inch long area 

Nancy want pictures of this.

We will see if services departement are great or not!:skep:


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

> It seems that the current batch of wider 29er rims will ship 3/18.


Where did you get that information ? Direct from Nancy Yu ?

(I ordered a set of rims March 5th, but didn't get any delivery info).


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

D93 said:


> Has anyone put any ride time on these wheels yet?


Yes, read the thread. I have ~15hrs on my set currently.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

My rim has been made and the wheel is getting put together today (tonight, last night? the time difference is confusing!)

She reports the weight at 406 and 410 grams for the rims. These are the wider rims. 30mm I believe.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> Yes, read the thread. I have ~15hrs on my set currently.


Overall impression of the rims so far? Ride quality, stiffness, weight, etc...


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## D93 (Oct 19, 2011)

ktm520 said:


> Yes, read the thread. I have ~15hrs on my set currently.


Why not share your experience? With 15 hours you probably have as much time as anyone on the rims. Have you developed an opinion? How do they compare to the alloy rims you've had in the past?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> I finally got Ikon EXO's mounted on my AM rims early this week. I used 25mm yellow tape and Stans valve stems. Tires beaded instantly with the first shot of compressed air and stayed beaded once pressure was released. As usual, tires had been sitting folded inside-out. I always mount the tires dry and then inject sealant through the valve stem after they have successfully beaded. No surprises here, bead sealed right up. Though, the bead seat isn't as tight as a Stans rim, but that has already been established.
> 
> Got in a ride on my rigid ss with the air pressure set the same as I would run on my P35 rims (18F/26R, 165lb). Again, no surprises, everything worked as expected, no noticeable tire squirm. I even hit a log pile harder than I should have and it more than likely collapsed the tire. No spooge or marks on the rim.
> 
> These rims are 200g lighter than a P35, so reduced rotating mass was noticeable, but I can't honestly say that I could "feel" any difference in stiffness.


bump, for those that skimmed


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

D93 said:


> Why not share your experience? With 15 hours you probably have as much time as anyone on the rims. Have you developed an opinion? How do they compare to the alloy rims you've had in the past?


Because my opinion hasn't changed since my last post :thumbsup:

The true test for me is a back to back test (same day, same trail) versus Crest rims, which I haven't done yet. The only other thing to report is that I have been able to run lower pressures than with the Crest without tire squirm on the rear, but I'm pretty sure I already posted that


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

KTM good to hear they are at least as stiff as your P35 wheels. At first I thought you meant 200g less for both rims but I looked at the P35's and they are up around 600g each. They are probably pretty stiff rims.
I'm betting the bead hook on the chinese rims are also good for opening a can of whoop-ass for the Crest's farewell dinner.


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## girlscantell (Oct 19, 2008)

Yeah - Nancy told me in an email that the rims would ship 3/18.


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## schnapmaster (Feb 26, 2004)

I like to use the Aerolite/C X-Ray spokes when I build to higher tension because it is easy to control spoke twist with the tool that holds the bladed spoke. If I build some of these carbon rims, I will use a good bit of spoke tension. The Revos would probably get a lot of windup at 120 Kgf.


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## starbux (Feb 17, 2006)

*Question for mat g:*



mat g said:


> Not me, it's winter here in Canada!
> 
> I have an issue with one of my rims. The hook that hold the tire is badly shaped on 2 inch long area
> 
> ...


If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to get these rims into Canada? Any extra duty charged? Thanks.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

starbux said:


> If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to get these rims into Canada? Any extra duty charged? Thanks.


30$ per rim for 2 rims.
No extra duty this time.


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## starbux (Feb 17, 2006)

Thanks mat. So CBSA charged you HST only. Maybe there's no duty on CF products from China!?! I've been heavily dinged in the past for soft goods (clothing) manuf'd in China. Good to know.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

starbux said:


> Thanks mat. So CBSA charged you HST only. Maybe there's no duty on CF products from China!?! I've been heavily dinged in the past for soft goods (clothing) manuf'd in China. Good to know.


In clothing that can be made in Canada, probably an extra-taxes is applied. On CF stuff..., canada is not known as a cf specialist! But Light-bicycle put a 80$ value on my package, it could help a lot!

Concerning my issue on my last rim, light-bicycle will send me a new rim!!!! Great!:thumbsup:


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## starbux (Feb 17, 2006)

Anyone on this thread have any first hand experience with failed CF rims? I've used CF handle bars for years, and I've now got a CF frame, but I've never ridden CF rims and I'm very tempted by these Chinese ones. I've tacoed alloy rims, and worn them out so that they've split apart between the spokes in several places (still rideable though), and seen lots of cracks around spoke holes. Nothing lasts forever and I'm sure CF will wear out over time, but how do CF rims fail - do they crack and split but remain somewhat rideable, or do they catastrophically explode into a million little pieces sending the rider tumbling into the abyss. I've seen the PinkBike/Santa Cruz frame-bashing video, but are carbon rims more durable than alloy ones like the frames appear to be?


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

schnapmaster said:


> I like to use the Aerolite/C X-Ray spokes when I build to higher tension because it is easy to control spoke twist with the tool that holds the bladed spoke. If I build some of these carbon rims, I will use a good bit of spoke tension. The Revos would probably get a lot of windup at 120 Kgf.


It's interesting how many people build with thin spokes and haven't figured out how to deal with windup. With thin spokes before I tension a wheel I put a small dab of paint/ink on the spoke just above the nipple so I can tell if it's winding up. It's just a matter of turning the nipple quick or over rotating a bit to get the spoke to move without the nipple.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Rivet said:


> It's interesting how many people build with thin spokes and haven't figured out how to deal with windup. With thin spokes before I tension a wheel I put a small dab of paint/ink on the spoke just above the nipple so I can tell if it's winding up. It's just a matter of turning the nipple quick or over rotating a bit to get the spoke to move without the nipple.


I just hold them so I can feel and resist the windup. :thumbsup:
I also don't see a reason to build carbon rims to super high tension just because they can take it. There is no upside and the downside is increased stresses in the other parts of the wheel. With 32 spokes, 110kgf is strong enough for almost any application.


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## Alex.b (Feb 17, 2012)

I have been following this thread with great interest. I am very tempted by the AM rims and thinking seriously about pulling the trigger.

Being a fan of undrilled rim beds, I asked Nancy whether it would be possible to have a pair of AM rims manufactured without rim bed holes. She replied "Yes" there would be a 15 day lead time though.

I plan to borrow the idea behind Fulcrum's MoMag technology and improvise a nipple seating process via magnets. 

I guess the main risk would be not having space in the rim cavity to turn the nipples around into position. I would be interested in the collective experience of the forum as to the wisdom of this plan.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

starbux said:


> Anyone on this thread have any first hand experience with failed CF rims? I've used CF handle bars for years, and I've now got a CF frame, but I've never ridden CF rims and I'm very tempted by these Chinese ones. I've tacoed alloy rims, and worn them out so that they've split apart between the spokes in several places (still rideable though), and seen lots of cracks around spoke holes. Nothing lasts forever and I'm sure CF will wear out over time, but how do CF rims fail - do they crack and split but remain somewhat rideable, or do they catastrophically explode into a million little pieces sending the rider tumbling into the abyss. I've seen the PinkBike/Santa Cruz frame-bashing video, but are carbon rims more durable than alloy ones like the frames appear to be?


There are a few pictures of broken Specialized Roval Control 29 carbon rims here to give an idea of what a failed carbon wheel looks like:

http://forums.mtbr.com/specialized/roval-control-sl-29-wheels-756250.html

Carbon mountain bike rims seem to be quite strong so long as you don't hit them on something or overinflate the tyres.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Alex.b said:


> I have been following this thread with great interest. I am very tempted by the AM rims and thinking seriously about pulling the trigger.
> 
> Being a fan of undrilled rim beds, I asked Nancy whether it would be possible to have a pair of AM rims manufactured without rim bed holes. She replied "Yes" there would be a 15 day lead time though.
> 
> ...


The cavity in my rims is about 8mm.


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

I ordered my rims on Feb. 20th and got this email

_The rims will be shipped on March 10th. Because there are a lots of 29er rims orders. And we have only one mold to manufacture. The production line is too busy to finish them in 7days this month. It will be better next month.

Is that ok?

Thanks,
Nancy
_

I got a tracking number this morning and they are on the way. Nancy also told me they take about 4 days to ship to the US. I thought is was very nice of them to tell me about the exta time. Many companies would just let you waite so you did not cancel the order.

I will not be able to weigh the rims as I am having them shipped directly to Industry Nine and they said they would check them out and if the quality did not look good they would contact me.

I will post a detailed ride report when Niner gets me my frame hopefully in April.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

well the front sure built up nicely.


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## AndreyI52 (Feb 4, 2009)

Alex.b said:


> I plan to borrow the idea behind Fulcrum's MoMag technology and improvise a nipple seating process via magnets.
> 
> I guess the main risk would be not having space in the rim cavity to turn the nipples around into position. I would be interested in the collective experience of the forum as to the wisdom of this plan.


 I believe most nipples made are aluminium or brass which means that they will not be attracted to magnets. I don't think I have ever heard of steel nipples. There may possibly be stainless steel nipples (but I doubt it due to the fact that stainless steel galles easily), however most grades of stainless steel are non magnetic. A more realistic idea is to screw a small length of threaded mild steel rod into the nipple. A rare earth magnet should be able to attract this. Good luck trying to get the nipples in there - I like the idea but it sounds like a difficult process. Let me know if you have any luck!


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

A steel bolt is screwed in to the nipple and retrieved with a magnet.


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

From: Nancy Yu
[email protected]

2:02 AM (1 hour ago)

Hello Scott,
The rims are shipped to you today, the tracking number is EMS(EE558242137CN), you can start to track late today.

The rim weight is one 428g, and the other is 416g, we think it is ok for you to ride.

Thanks,
Nancy

---

I had them built a little heavier because I'm a grownup and weigh what grown men should weigh. These are the extra wide 29er rims.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

I got word from Nancy that they were just finished with a 3K production line, and are doing an UD run now that will be shipping on 12-14th of march.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

hogprint said:


> well the front sure built up nicely.


Hope you plan on running tires with more volume than that for the sake of saving your investment. Carbon rims striking rocks don't do well.:nono:


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

BruceBrown said:


> Hope you plan on running tires with more volume than that for the sake of saving your investment. Carbon rims striking rocks don't do well.:nono:


I believe that's a cyclocross tire
No rims do well striking rocks


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

This wheel set is for my gravel grinder bike. Everything is copacetic. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

*customer service????*

Just got my rims Friday and after looking them over, one is great and one sucks. The good one is 399g and the bad one is 373g so I would watch out on the lighter rims. The bad one as a 40mm bad spot where the tire bead is almost gone.. I sent Nancy several pic's so lets see how their customer service is..


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

That blows. The one rim does not look anything like the set I received. I sure hope they respond positively.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

thread a string through the nipple hole and retreive it through the valve hole. Thread it through the nipple and a small bolt to hold it in and pull it into position. It will take a little time but shouldn't be too bad.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> Just got my rims Friday and after looking them over, one is great and one sucks. The good one is 399g and the bad one is 373g so I would watch out on the lighter rims. The bad one as a 40mm bad spot where the tire bead is almost gone.. I sent Nancy several pic's so lets see how their customer service is..


That really blows! Keep us updated


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

Nancy got back to me in just a few hours. She asked for couple of other pic's and measurements so they can improve on their quality checks. She said they will replace it and work out a return for the defective rim. From their drawings the tire bead should be 1.4mm and I'm missing about 1mm.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

Does anybody have an accurate ERD on these rims yet? I need to order some spokes and need to calculate length (ordering DT Swiss Aerolites).

TIA!:thumbsup:


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

whybotherme said:


> Does anybody have an accurate ERD on these rims yet? I need to order some spokes and need to calculate length (ordering DT Swiss Aerolites).
> 
> TIA!:thumbsup:


602 to 603 mm.This is on top of nipples.
598mm on face nipples will seats.
Use 603 ERD.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

mat g said:


> 602 to 603 mm.
> .


This is what I measured also.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

red5jedi said:


> Nancy got back to me in just a few hours. She asked for couple of other pic's and measurements so they can improve on their quality checks. She said they will replace it and work out a return for the defective rim. From their drawings the tire bead should be 1.4mm and I'm missing about 1mm.


Not bad CS.


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## smoove_ride (Jun 13, 2008)

since we're talking spokes... i'll ask my question again.

what is everyone using for spoke tension on these rims? 

BTW, i ordered 3 rims, 2 were 'perfect' and the 3rd had a touch of the bead lip missing in two small spots (a few mm's long each). pretty minor, really.. not worth sending back, and i'm relatively certain the tire won't have an issue sealing/leaking air.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

My rims turned up today. Dispatched Friday from China and arrived in the UK on Tuesday. That's not bad. They were marked as $80USD value on the shipping label so I'm waiting to see how much duty will be charged.

I ordered a pair of the narrower XC 29er clincher rims in the 3k carbon matte finish. One 28H for the front wheel and a 32H for the rear wheel. With the matte finish they look quite plain, just black rims unless you look closely. I think that a gloss finish would bring out the carbon weave more and probaby look better.

Externally both rims look very good and appear round. When you start looking within the rim however they're a bit mixed. Both rims have scoring around one side. This is worse on the 28H rim where there are a few sections that are over 1mm deep. This scoring is along the join between the rim bed and the bead. It's a bit worrying as that scoring is going to be a weak point when you have an inflated tyre fitted.

The 32H rear rim has less scoring but there are several sections inside where patches of carbon "filler" appear to have been used to fix up some of the worst parts. There are lots of visible joins inside on the 32H rim also.

The question is whether they're actually safe to ride or not. I don't know.

Pictured below: Light Bicycle XC 29er rim internal view. There are several 1mm plus deep holes running around the outside of the rim.


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

If they are not as-advertised then I definitely would not accept them as they are. If there is any doubt as to their structural integrity then they are not safe to ride IMO. I'm sure you did not specify for them to be 'scored' and filled with goop. Send them back! I have 2 on order and if they turn up like yours and red5jedi's they will be hearing from me for sure.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

I totally agree with rockinrod42. I have two rims on order. If they're not perfect/as advertised, I'll be sending them back and demanding complete reimbursement for shipping. I understand they're not expensive in the realm of carbon MTB rims, but they're still $150 a pop.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

WR304 said:


> Pictured below: Light Bicycle XC 29er rim internal view. There are several 1mm plus deep holes running around the outside of the rim.


Wow. That looks really bad. I'd be interested to see what the remedy is, because I certainly wouldn't lace that up and ride it.
Good luck. :thumbsup:


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

WR304 said:


> Pictured below: Light Bicycle XC 29er rim internal view. There are several 1mm plus deep holes running around the outside of the rim.


Those should have never left the factory. Hope they take of you on that deal.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Before buying, I would demand a photo of the rim they are going to send, citing these specific problems.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

uphiller said:


> Before buying, I would demand a photo of the rim they are going to send, citing these specific problems.


Uhhh, yeah I'm sure they are going to get right on that. 

This is a perfect example of why buying and paying a little bit more for a quality product with local support is worth while.

Get the deal now if you want it folks. After having to pay for new products to be shipped all over the world by air freight and shipping charges prices are sure to go up from these companies.

(sorry rant off now)


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

GSJ1973 said:


> Uhhh, yeah I'm sure they are going to get right on that.





GSJ1973 said:


> This is a perfect example of why buying and paying a little bit more for a quality product with local support is worth while.


I wouldn't call the difference between these rims @ $150 and an Enve rim @ $800, a little bit more.

I live in Mi, Enve in Ut. I wouldn't call that local. Would replacement be faster? Probably, but worth $650, I think not. And with Spec, going through the LBS then through Spec, would probably takes as long as the Chinese rims, for replacement. 
I would like to think the people buying these rims have an idea what they could be in for, as far as quality. I know I am. 
But it seems that the majority on this thread that have bought, have had good results


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

GSJ1973 said:


> Uhhh, yeah I'm sure they are going to get right on that.
> 
> This is a perfect example of why buying and paying a little bit more for a quality product with local support is worth while.
> 
> ...


Price is going to stay consistent. RBR has been all over the chinese carbon wheels for a good while now and prices still hover right around $300ish.

Keep in mind that for carbon wheels it's not just a "bit" more. The cheapest source for a quality branded product is the DT which is $550 per rim...the next step up is Enve.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Here's a picture of a filler section on the rear 32H rim. It's quite difficult to get a good photograph but the original rim bed between the two spoke holes appears to have been too thin and cracked. The filler on top is filling the gap where the rim bed used to be. 

The black marks are where the filler goes down deeper than the rim bed, suggesting that there's nothing but filler there.

Pictured below: 32H rim has filler where the original rim bed appears to have been too thin and cracked


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

WR304 said:


> Here's a picture of a filler section on the rear 32H rim. It's quite difficult to get a good photograph but the original rim bed between the two spoke holes appears to have been too thin and cracked. The filler on top is filling the gap where the rim bed used to be.
> 
> The black marks are where the filler goes down deeper than the rim bed, suggesting that there's nothing but filler there.
> 
> Pictured below: 32H rim has filler where the original rim bed appears to have been too thin and cracked


These "filling patches" are normal. I'm not a carbon rim maker but I understand how a carbon rim is made. The beautiful outer section is a mold. The inside section where the tire is sitting is made by apply 5 to 6 preformed wax section that will be melt after curing. The inside invisible section (air) is obtain with an inflatable tube ballon to compress all layers to the mold and to the wax sections during vacuum process. That "tube" is removed throught the big holes (3-4). After, "finishing departement" made these patches and sand it. On my Roval, they are the same patches but less apparent. I'm sure in the enve rim, the same patches are there but finishing must be greater. The long air bubble on your picture is in the wrong way for sure. Structural strengh is maybe affected. But, there's no cutted fibre in this section.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

mat g said:


> These "filling patches" are normal. I'm not a carbon rim maker but I understand how a carbon rim is made. The beautiful outer section is a mold. The inside section where the tire is sitting is made by apply 5 to 6 preformed wax section that will be melt after curing. The inside invisible section (air) is obtain with an inflatable tube ballon to compress all layers to the mold and to the wax sections during vacuum process. That "tube" is removed throught the big holes (3-4). After, "finishing departement" made these patches and sand it. On my Roval, they are the same patches but less apparent. I'm sure in the enve rim, the same patches are there but finishing must be greater. The long air bubble on your picture is in the wrong way for sure. Structural strengh is maybe affected. But, there's no cutted fibre in this section.


With that said, would you buy one of these rims considering how cheap they are?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

he already has a few


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

Email discussion with Nancy. 

Hello Tony,

The weight for your rims is one rim 396g, and the other is 392g.
Is it ok for you?

Thanks,
Nancy


That is fine. Have the rims been inspected for defects? There have been a few reports of defective rims from your facility recently. Just want to make sure.

Thank you,

Tony


Hello Tony,

Yes, we have enhanced the QC check, and i do the QC check also these days before shipping out. We did get some quality issue when customers get the rims. We have told our production line and will improve it accordingly.

Thanks,
Nancy


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

macming said:


> With that said, would you buy one of these rims considering how cheap they are?


These cheap carbon rim are cheap because of the low price. I think they are very good quality stuff. I have a Roval rim to compare. The chinese rims are stiffer, wider, have a ridiculous low price and look so familiar to Rovals with only 25g more. I don't know if they are made at the same factory but the Rovals seems to pass a better quality control test because the are shipped to Specialized and at Specialized, they certainly have another QC check before spreading on retailer's shops...

I have an issue too. It's important to talk with this carbon stuff builder about issues. They are suppose to deliver flawless product and we are severe buyers who compare them to Rovals and Enves!!!! And that's great, they will offer better products!

Here's my issue on movie:
173.MTS - YouTube


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

I emailed them and told them NOT to send me any of the above level of product quality. The reply was 
"Please don't worry, if you get our rims, and you don't like them, you can ask for a refund.
Please let us know your suggestion. If you insist on refunding, that is ok.".


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I emailed Nancy a few days ago inquiring about a 650b "AM" model. She said her manager was aware of the size and was considering making them. She asked me what dimensions I would like so I sent her the following:

Size:650b - ISO 584
* Width: 30.0mm
* Inner bead width: 23mm
* Section Height: 20mm
* ERD: 565mm
* Weight: 370g range

She said she would let her manager know Is anyone besides me excited about a sweet @$$ 650b rim option? I think if these make it to production it would be enough to push me over the edge and finally commit to trying a 650b bike


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## kcaz (Nov 2, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> I emailed Nancy a few days ago inquiring about a 650b "AM" model. She said her manager was aware of the size and was considering making them. She asked me what dimensions I would like so I sent her the following:
> 
> Size:650b - ISO 584
> * Width: 30.0mm
> ...


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

^ I started a thread in the 650b forum that will hopefully catch steam Make sure to shoot them a quick message showing your enthusiasm to get the ball rolling!


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Just received a pair of the 30mm wide rims and they appear to be flawless.


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*Anyone know how easy these are to run tubeless*

I would like to just be able to use the stans tape as opposed to the rim strips. Appreciate any info.


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

They showed up today. These are the wider 29er rims built a little heavier for heavier riders. I used some Stans Flows 29er rims for comparison.

ERD 603

---

Chinese Carbon 29er Rim - External by tehschkott, on Flickr


Stans Flow 29er Rim - External by tehschkott, on Flickr


Chinese Carbon 29er Rim - Internal by tehschkott, on Flickr


Stans Flow 29er Rim - External by tehschkott, on Flickr

---

This is the weight of both carbon rims.


IMG_2667 by tehschkott, on Flickr


IMG_2668 by tehschkott, on Flickr


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

Incidentally, quality on these appear pretty kickass. Good bead, good finish. Can't complain.

I want to say, obviously they're still refining some of their manufacturing and QA processes. You're paying an insanely cheap $$$ price while they buckle things down. If you don't know this to begin with you shouldn't be anywhere near this. 

They're cheap, are doing semi-custom stuff with no extra charge, communication is good, and remediation seems to be a thing they're pursuing when problems are brought up. All through a single representative. Be excited, have fun with this, but cut them a little slack and understand that you may have to work with them a little to get a quality product at basement bargain rates. If you want an Enve, go buy an Enve. Nobody here cares about your Enve. 

Caveat Emptor


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Nice report tehschkott.
Please update with tire install and ride impression.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I've been riding mine for about a week now. Of course they are on my gravel grinder, not my MTB. I am thoroughly impressed with the rims. They laced up, and tensioned without issue. Incredibly easy to tension and true. Stans wide tape dropped right in to the rim well but i have yet to try a tubeless install. I did have one spoke nipple disintegrate as I built the final tension but that certainly isn't the rims fault. I'm slowly taking nastier lines and plowing over things on purpose as I build confidence in the product.


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*Impacact Resistance?*

I am very interested in these rims but I ride on East Coast rocky trails. Any reason to believe that they would be any less impact resistance to rocks than Easton's Armored Ballistic composite or ENVE's material. That really is my main concern. Thanks for any info. I ride in East Coast rocks.


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## marmotman (Feb 14, 2007)

So I built up one of my rims into a rear wheel and everything looks good, but the other rim I ordered has some issues with the bead seat, there is approximately a 7-8 mm portion that will effectively prohibit the tire from seating correctly. Has anybody else seen this issue? If so, any luck filing or sanding it down on your own?


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I'd just dremel that before sending back to china.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

hogprint said:


> I'd just dremel that before sending back to china.


+1 easy fix


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

DeeZee said:


> +1 easy fix


This


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## WrecklessREX (Feb 25, 2011)

marmotman, that whole bead seat by your hand looks different, smaller, than it does on the right. Or am I just seeing things?


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

WrecklessREX said:


> marmotman, that whole bead seat by your hand looks different, smaller, than it does on the right. Or am I just seeing things?


The beads seems to be the hardess part to make and we can see it very well during building a wheel. The beads on mine are not impressive, there's a lot of dancing on that aera. But not more than my roval, so I don't complain about this.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I posted some internal pictures of the rims that I received earlier in the thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/9095780-post718.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/9098141-post727.html

I mounted tyres on the two rims and left them inflated at 50 psi over the weekend. They were both ok with no visible issues resulting from that.

I also took the rims to the bike shop for a second opinion. They thought that the 32 hole rim appears to be good. Their view was that the internal marks inside that rim are just cosmetic, rather than anything to worry about. Their comment was that the 32 hole light-bicycle rim was much better made and finished than Zipp carbon rims they had seen in the past. The Zipp carbon rims having been heavily pitted inside the rim.

The 28 hole rim which has the most visible air bubble holes inside they weren't so sure about. They thought the holes might not have affected the rim strength but couldn't be certain just from looking at them.

I'm going to have them built onto hubs and will give them a (cautious) try, although that won't be until next week sometime.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*My Nancy Yu wheels arrived!*

So my Nancy Yu wheels are here now! These are the wider 30 mm rims built up with the recommended Novatec Hubs by Nancy herself. Really.

The build is excellent. The rim bed is smooth and there are no discontinuations in the bead.

Check out the video for weights and beds.


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## WrecklessREX (Feb 25, 2011)

mat g said:


> The beads seems to be the hardess part to make and we can see it very well during building a wheel. The beads on mine are not impressive, there's a lot of dancing on that aera. But not more than my roval, so I don't complain about this.


Gotcha, I definitely understand it being difficult to form the bead seat, just not sure how tubeless compatible a bead seat like that is. You guys have me close to buying in and I don't have a "need" for another wheelset. :thumbsup:


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Alpenglow said:


> I am very interested in these rims but I ride on East Coast rocky trails. Any reason to believe that they would be any less impact resistance to rocks than Easton's Armored Ballistic composite or ENVE's material. That really is my main concern. Thanks for any info. I ride in East Coast rocks.


I know the issue has been raised before in this thread, but worrying more about your self-preservation and well being with the equipment you choose trumps any price/cost issue.

This whole thread reminds me of a similar one to the Magic Shine lights when they first came out. Sure they were cheap and "worked" according to hundreds of posters in a thread similar to this, but if you have followed the entire history of that light you might think twice before springing for these carbon rims (for lack of a better analogy). I would put the safety of the rims and your personal well being at the very top of the list as being much more important than a lighting device.

Bombing down a hill, going over rocks and roots on a tree lined singletrack at full tilt. Do you have complete confidence in your equipment, or is there any thought of possible equipment fail? The price may be inconsequential in the long run.

My thoughts.

BB


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Bombing down a hill, going over rocks and roots on a tree lined singletrack at full tilt. Do you have complete confidence in your equipment, or is there any thought of possible equipment fail? The price may be inconsequential in the long run.
> 
> My thoughts.
> 
> BB


Then again Bruce, if you were truly concerned about your safety you may not be "Bombing down a hill, going over rocks and roots on a tree lined singletrack at full tilt".
And others would say that they would not be riding CF rims full stop.
Again others would say that they would not ride anything other than X no of spokes.
Others would say they would not ride anything other than a 15mm/20mm/bolt on/ insert your prefered method of attaching the wheel.

Personal opinion IMO.


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## Speedster (Nov 30, 2006)

I may get rocks thrown at me for asking but a lot of replies to read through to get to the facts. Can someone summarize cost, options (hoops, spokes, hubs), how to order, etc? So far look slike a great wheelset though like some skeptical of the durability/risks.

thx in advance.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Speedster said:


> I may get rocks thrown at me for asking but a lot of replies to read through to get to the facts. Can someone summarize cost, options (hoops, spokes, hubs), how to order, etc? So far look slike a great wheelset though like some skeptical of the durability/risks.
> 
> thx in advance.


Click


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

@BruceBrown

Chinese carbon rims AND frames have been the fad for quite some years over on Roadbikereview.

Many road bikers now riding on them with no problems at all.

None the less, I went with Enve AM rims for my Mojo since I got a deal from my LBS, but I did end up ordering 50mm carbon clinchers for my road bike from Nancy.


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## Fly2Hi96 (Jul 18, 2005)

I went with the UD matte finish and received my rims today. They are 410 grams apiece and look perfect. No obvious quality issues.


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## pkcain (May 5, 2009)

anthonylokrn said:


> @BruceBrown
> 
> Chinese carbon rims AND frames have been the fad for quite some years over on Roadbikereview.
> 
> Many road bikers now riding on them with no problems at all..


... and many mountain bikers have been riding Chinese carbon frames, like your Ibis. 

In fact, I can't think of a single carbon FS mountainbike that isn't make in China/Taiwan, and a lot of people are happy with those and they don't spontaneously combust (that often).


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

pkcain said:


> ... and many mountain bikers have been riding Chinese carbon frames, like your Ibis.
> 
> In fact, I can't think of a single carbon FS mountainbike that isn't make in China/Taiwan, and a lot of people are happy with those and they don't spontaneously combust (that often).


Agreed!

And carbon doesn't combust/break any more suddenly or drastically than any other material like lots of people think. The same impact that would destroy a carbon part would do the same to an alloy part. The part about carbon that is scary to me is the cost of entry! The stuff costs approximately 3x+ what it's alloy counterparts usually do so I don't want to take the risk of something expensive being damaged! These aren't going to hurt anyone worse than an alloy rim would.

And before anyone spouts off about bustedcarbon.com and all the shredded carbon carnage on there, I dare you to run an aluminum road bike into your garage or into a parked car at 30mph and tell me it's fine with no jagged metal bits sticking out Carbon gets a bad rap from people that have never dealt with it or don't know anything about it. If an F22 Raptor can fly at Mach 2 and withstand enough Gs to kill a pilot in a flight suit, I'm pretty sure carbon can safely make a hula hoop with 2" of rubber and air around it for padding


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## juansevo (Nov 3, 2005)

DFYFZX said:


> Agreed!
> 
> And carbon doesn't combust/break any more suddenly or drastically than any other material like lots of people think. The same impact that would destroy a carbon part would do the same to an alloy part. The part about carbon that is scary to me is the cost of entry! The stuff costs approximately 3x+ what it's alloy counterparts usually do so I don't want to take the risk of something expensive being damaged! These aren't going to hurt anyone worse than an alloy rim would.
> 
> And before anyone spouts off about bustedcarbon.com and all the shredded carbon carnage on there, I dare you to run an aluminum road bike into your garage or into a parked car at 30mph and tell me it's fine with no jagged metal bits sticking out Carbon gets a bad rap from people that have never dealt with it or don't know anything about it. If an F22 Raptor can fly at Mach 2 and withstand enough Gs to kill a pilot in a flight suit, I'm pretty sure carbon can safely make a hula hoop with 2" of rubber and air around it for padding


Actually, carbon rims from a lot of these Chinese makers are not at the same level by any means as those by say ENVE or Easton or SRAM. Those companies...yes, no worries and won't just blow up on you. However I've seen the carnage of cheap carbon rims on many sub-wheel brands (who I should say, make excellent alloy wheel sets that surpass many bigger companies for value/quality) who go with cheap carbon rims from these shops.

Carbon does get a bad rap....because of bad manufacturing processes. Cheapo 3k weave resin transfer stuff doesn't hold a candle too well made unidirectional pre-preg by reputable companies.

Not all Asian stuff is bad. And in the field of frames, hardly anyone makes stuff stateside. Not too much to worry about unless it's stupid light....then I'd shy away unless it's a big brand. And Asian no-name rims are sometimes fine.....but you won't know til you ride it. If you are willing to take that chance, fine. But otherwise it's not an area I'd gamble with right now. 2-3 years maybe. But not know. Especially when it comes to clinchers.


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

Got my 30mm rims today in 3D weave. Weighed 393g and 398g. No quality issues with mine either. Can't wait to build them up!


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

How accurate is the listed ERD compared to actual measurements?


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

I used 602, with supercomps calculated on dtswiss spoke calc. and it was perfect.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Nels said:


> I used 602, with supercomps calculated on dtswiss spoke calc. and it was perfect.


What does "perfect" mean to you? Spoke ends between the top and bottom of the nipple slot?


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

yes,that is correct.


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## D93 (Oct 19, 2011)

So is anyone worried about bombing down a rocky rutty single track with them?


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

juansevo wrote:


> I've seen the carnage of cheap carbon rims on many sub-wheel brands


Since there are so many and you have been blessed enough to actually see them all, can you name just a few for us - for the sake of public safety. Perhaps some links to photos would be good too. Just a few of the many you've personally seen will do.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

MagicCarpet said:


> juansevo wrote:
> 
> Since there are so many and you have been blessed enough to actually see them all, can you name just a few for us - for the sake of public safety. Perhaps some links to photos would be good too. Just a few of the many you've personally seen will do.


+1
I wanna see too:skep:


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

So I’m still waiting on a replacement front rim but I did get the rear built up. 713g with no tape and valve. A little bummed out on a couple of things. Extralite list what size of spoke to use based on the ERD. Well that number would be 305mm for both sides and the CX-ray spokes only come in even sizes. But then on Fair Wheel Bikes list Straight pull spokes that go that long but they also list in the description that the CX-ray spokes run short by ~1mm. So I thought this would work out perfect and get the 306mm. Well after building the rear I find the drive side spokes are 1-2mm too long (stick out above the nipple). That suck but the wheel should be fine (right?). Also trying to get spoke tension up that high is freaking so hard. I got the drive side up to 12 on the TM1, so on a 2.0 steel bladed spoke that is 117kgf and on the other side I got it up to 8 or 80kgf. Does that sound right or do I suck.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Hoping I won't run into the same issues as I rounded up as well. One thing which could help if the spokes are slightly too long is to use American Classic nipples, those require the spokes to be 1 mm longer than with normal nipples so might just solve it (if you run out of thread now). I also bought some nipple washers to create some more space to play.


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## While At Rome (Apr 25, 2011)

Please keep us posted about how these hold up for MTB usage.

I would not mind a set for the road, but for high speed rock garden filled hits no thanks.

Ambulance ride and an ER visit will cover the cost of a set of ENVEs.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

While At Rome said:


> Please keep us posted about how these hold up for MTB usage.
> 
> I would not mind a set for the road, but for high speed rock garden filled hits no thanks.
> 
> Ambulance ride and an ER visit will cover the cost of a set of ENVEs.


Probably a lot worst having a carbon rim fail on a road bike while descending at 40+mph...


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

While At Rome said:


> Please keep us posted about how these hold up for MTB usage.
> 
> I would not mind a set for the road, but for high speed rock garden filled hits no thanks.
> 
> Ambulance ride and an ER visit will cover the cost of a set of ENVEs.


How will the cost of an ambulance trip be any cheaper if you ride ENVE's and they fail?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

figo said:


> Hoping I won't run into the same issues as I rounded up as well. One thing which could help if the spokes are slightly too long is to use American Classic nipples, those require the spokes to be 1 mm longer than with normal nipples so might just solve it (if you run out of thread now). I also bought some nipple washers to create some more space to play.


The AC nipples require about 2 mms of extra length! I use them all the time, and have even gone for 3mm extra at times...


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Heh...*



BruceBrown said:


> I know the issue has been raised before in this thread, but worrying more about your self-preservation and well being with the equipment you choose trumps any price/cost issue.
> 
> This whole thread reminds me of a similar one to the Magic Shine lights when they first came out. Sure they were cheap and "worked" according to hundreds of posters in a thread similar to this, but if you have followed the entire history of that light you might think twice before springing for these carbon rims (for lack of a better analogy). I would put the safety of the rims and your personal well being at the very top of the list as being much more important than a lighting device.
> 
> ...


I got two of those lights, and rode the crud out of them. After warrantying one battery, buying a second outright, and building a couple of two cell batteries for strapping directly to my helmet, I'm still way ahead of rebuilding my NiteRider battery.

For the cost of these rims, I can buy two to build and ride, two more for spares for the price of one Enve carbon rim. I think the whole catastrophic failure discussion is nothing but fear mongering.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Putting more miles on my rims each week. They are performing wonderfully! Sooooooo happy with them.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> For the cost of these rims, I can buy two to build and ride, two more for spares for the price of one Enve carbon rim. I think the whole catastrophic failure discussion is nothing but fear mongering.


It could be, but we all have to make choices with our equipment. Those choices include cost, safety, intended use, rider weight, riding style, type of bike, etc... . I've been looking at these rims as well for a possible build, but until some more of the kinks are worked out (i.e. there are too many posts in this thread that I would rate as poor quality control from the manufacturer) and many months of off road riding/racing occur with the test guinea pigs with reports back of how the rims have held up - I will wait to see.

I do hope that your carbon rims perform and hold up better than the "cheap" rim you highlight in your December 17th, 2011 blog post.

_"I was rolling down some stairs that go into a switchback, when I leaned too hard on the outside bar while applying the front brake. Wups. The wheel just folded over like Newt Gingrich after a call from Grover Norquist. Rim was cracked at the pinned seam (yeah, it was a cheapo rim)..."_


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

juansevo said:


> However I've seen the carnage of cheap carbon rims on many sub-wheel brands


Pics? Links? Reviews?

Considering carbon rims are not yet common, I don't understand how you've seen "many".


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

figo said:


> One thing which could help if the spokes are slightly too long is to use American Classic nipples, those require the spokes to be 1 mm longer than with normal nipples so might just solve it (if you run out of thread now).


Thanks for the info. I hope a LBS has some on hand.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> Well after building the rear I find the drive side spokes are 1-2mm too long (stick out above the nipple). That suck but the wheel should be fine (right?). Also trying to get spoke tension up that high is freaking so hard.


I had the same issue with the wheels I built using these rims, except the driveside on the rear wheel came out 2-4mm long (Sapim Laser). This was my first build using 1.5 spokes and basically got bit by tolerance stack up. It really boils down to thread engagement, and even at 4mm long, there is still plenty of engagement for sufficient mechanical strength. I started a thread in the wheel forum asking this question and didn't get much. I decided it was a manageable risk and so far have 15hrs of riding without issue.
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/2-0-1-5-2-0-spoke-stretch-length-769558.html

Could you be more specific on why you are having problems bringing the tension up? When the spoke is too long, the nipple threads can bottom out on the spoke shank, but it all depends on the specific spoke/nipple combination if or when this happens. This can cause extra friction that must be over come when tightening the nipple. A couple of the long spokes on my rear wheel were a little bit harder to turn, but nothing that would cause the nipple head to strip.


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## fvfvfv (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

I just ordered a pair of the 26" wide rims. I'll keep everyone posted on how they turn out!

If they worked out well, I'll be getting a set for my race bike as well


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

macming said:


> I just ordered a pair of the 26" wide rims. I'll keep everyone posted on how they turn out!
> 
> If they worked out well, I'll be getting a set for my race bike as well


Wow, those are really wide!


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

*Time for a re-thread.*



ktm520 said:


> I had the same issue with the wheels I built using these rims, except the driveside on the rear wheel came out 2-4mm long (Sapim Laser). This was my first build using 1.5 spokes and basically got bit by tolerance stack up. It really boils down to thread engagement, and even at 4mm long, there is still plenty of engagement for sufficient mechanical strength. I started a thread in the wheel forum asking this question and didn't get much. I decided it was a manageable risk and so far have 15hrs of riding without issue.
> http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/2-0-1-5-2-0-spoke-stretch-length-769558.html
> 
> Could you be more specific on why you are having problems bringing the tension up? When the spoke is too long, the nipple threads can bottom out on the spoke shank, but it all depends on the specific spoke/nipple combination if or when this happens. This can cause extra friction that must be over come when tightening the nipple. A couple of the long spokes on my rear wheel were a little bit harder to turn, but nothing that would cause the nipple head to strip.


The better shops should have a spoke threader.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

ktm520 said:


> Could you be more specific on why you are having problems bringing the tension up? When the spoke is too long, the nipple threads can bottom out on the spoke shank, but it all depends on the specific spoke/nipple combination if or when this happens. This can cause extra friction that must be over come when tightening the nipple. A couple of the long spokes on my rear wheel were a little bit harder to turn, but nothing that would cause the nipple head to strip.


I'm using Sapim Polyax Al locking nipples. The wheel was hard to tension maybe due to my spoke wrench (park SW-0). It just doesn't give you the leverage and also trying to hold the spoke down low near the nipple was some work. I found it easier to loosen up the non-drive side, then tighten down the drive side then back over to the other side. Other times I try to bring both sides into tension at the same time. I've built only a few wheels and like, and hate it all at the same time.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I'm sure it will*



BruceBrown said:


> It could be, but we all have to make choices with our equipment. Those choices include cost, safety, intended use, rider weight, riding style, type of bike, etc... . I've been looking at these rims as well for a possible build, but until some more of the kinks are worked out (i.e. there are too many posts in this thread that I would rate as poor quality control from the manufacturer) and many months of off road riding/racing occur with the test guinea pigs with reports back of how the rims have held up - I will wait to see.
> 
> I do hope that your carbon rims perform and hold up better than the "cheap" rim you highlight in your December 17th, 2011 blog post.
> 
> _"I was rolling down some stairs that go into a switchback, when I leaned too hard on the outside bar while applying the front brake. Wups. The wheel just folded over like Newt Gingrich after a call from Grover Norquist. Rim was cracked at the pinned seam (yeah, it was a cheapo rim)..."_


I'd like to point out that I'm 20 pounds over the weight limit of this DT Swiss x470 rim I folded over, riding down steep stairs around a switchback while fully tucked behind the saddle, and I made a pretty big 'freak out' mistake at very low speed by grabbing a bunch of front brake with the bars cocked pretty much sideways. I don't think any XC grade aluminum rim would have survived that. This is after I pounded down rock gardens at speed, and high speed fireroad ruts for a year with no issues at all. I beat the tar out of it, and never even trued the wheel after I built it. Although, this wheel always felt kinda noodley from the get-go. I was saying it was a cheap rim because even though it was not particularly light, it felt noodley like a flyweight rim, feeling about as stiff as the 24 spoke Bontrager XXXRacelite 600 gram wheel I raced on for a few years. I think they used an alloy to make that rim out of aluminum and soft cheese.

I'd also like to point out that this is the first rim I have actually bent beyond repair in like 10 years. I am typically not hard on rims, despite my, uh, bulk. :thumbsup: I crashed once pretty badly at Demo Forrest and broke a couple of ribs, but my front wheel only needed some truing to bring it back in line. That was a WTB SpeedDisc rim. I'm still riding that wheel, BTW.

I'm considering the 30mm AM carbon rims, which are actually lighter than the x470 and I'm sure way stiffer. Carbon doesn't bend. It reaches it's yield point and breaks, and that yield point is way higher than the bend point of any alu rim.

All of the QC issues we have seen on these rims revolve around how the bead was shaped, or the finish work. I have yet to see any failures. If there are any failures, I would love to hear some real first hand information on them, not just 'I heard' kinda stuff.

Really, I'm probably a year off of plunking down my fat cash for a set of these rims. I think that is plenty of time to let the mtbr community beta test these things for me.

The reason I personally think this is all fear mongering hype is because there is zero evidence of what the fear mongers are trying to convey... that is, the hyperbole that these are poorly made rims that are unsafe and going to fail and make a whole bunch of dentists across our fair nation very rich.

If there is any truth to that, let's see the carnage. Oh wait, there isn't any.


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## bikekayakhike (May 31, 2006)

First ride on mine yesterday. Damn, they are nice!! Could not be happier. I will keep you posted long term.


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

For those that have built these light bicycle wheels did you use nipple backing washers? If so where did you source them?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

My tracking info says the 24th Of course, it's been DUMPING rain in Kansas City so probably no ride for at least a weak or so...


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

bikekayakhike said:


> First ride on mine yesterday. Damn, they are nice!! Could not be happier. I will keep you posted long term.


Have you noticed any difference when riding compared to your (presumably aluminum) old rims? Can you elaborate?

If you could do it over would you? If you need to replace them in a year will you get lite-bicycle rims again or would yo look elsewhere?

Thanks!


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Just got my UD wide 29er rims for fat kids today and they look flawless. Having them laced to Chris King hubs with DT Revolutions. Will report in with the full build when I get the wheels back.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

my god the hand wringing....


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

misooscar said:


> For those that have built these light bicycle wheels did you use nipple backing washers? If so where did you source them?


I didn't use them but I found this place.
Washers


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

That was the place I found as well, ended up however ordering them from the same place where I got my (Sapim) spokes from


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

That TM1 is a shitty tool! 

The one in my shop reads like 30kgf higher on a built wheel than the one at another LBS downtown.

I was rounding nipples on my carbon road bike wheels at "125kgf" and I diddnt know what the hell was happening. The tool was new out of the box too!


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

One of them needs to be recalibrated then, if its being used in a shop then its prob seeing a lot of usage, time to send it in to Park


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Sheepo5669 said:


> That TM1 is a shitty tool!
> 
> The one in my shop reads like 30kgf higher on a built wheel than the one at another LBS downtown.
> 
> I was rounding nipples on my carbon road bike wheels at "125kgf" and I diddnt know what the hell was happening. The tool was new out of the box too!


Were you reading the conversion chart right?
TM-1 is a fine tool. You might have gotten one that wasn't calibrated right, but that's like saying carbon road wheels are shitty because I saw a guy who had a pair with a flat. :skep:
A poster here just recently told me how the DT Swiss spoke calc was crappy and "wrong" because he didn't know what Ø meant and was plugging in the wrong numbers.


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## floxy (May 17, 2008)

I searched this thread and didn't see a lot of detail on tubeless set up. Do these carbon rims from 'Nancy' seat up well with tubeless and handle low pressures well with just yellow tape? I helped a friend set up his carbon Rovals and couldn't believe how easily they set up.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

floxy said:


> I searched this thread and didn't see a lot of detail on tubeless set up. Do these carbon rims from 'Nancy' seat up well with tubeless and handle low pressures well with just yellow tape? I helped a friend set up his carbon Rovals and couldn't believe how easily they set up.


I rode on my set today (pictures will follow one of these days), and I didn't notice any difference compared to my regular ZTR Flow wheels... but I suppose that's a good thing.

HOWEVER... the tubeless fit is not as good as I was hoping, and burping will happen, probably even with 2 wraps of Gorilla tape... so if you want to ride very low pressures, i would advise the ZTR Arch EX rim over this one...

I might still try a tubeless rimstrip from bontrager, someone said that helped?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

^ What tires and what pressure were you running when they burped?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

DFYFZX said:


> ^ What tires and what pressure were you running when they burped?


I tried a Bontrager ACX (Tubelessready), and even with 2 wraps of gorilla tape, I could still easily push the sidewall with my thumbs to let the air hiss out... in my opinion, a rim is truely tubeless if this DOESNT happen.

So I didnt take the chance to burp on the trail, and mounted a Geax Saguaro and AKA with tubes.

Next step: Trying the Bontrager Rhythm 29 rimstrips that seem to work so well in post 131


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

two-one said:


> I rode on my set today (pictures will follow one of these days), and I didn't notice any difference compared to my regular ZTR Flow wheels... but I suppose that's a good thing.
> 
> HOWEVER... the tubeless fit is not as good as I was hoping, and burping will happen, probably even with 2 wraps of Gorilla tape... so if you want to ride very low pressures, i would advise the ZTR Arch EX rim over this one...
> 
> I might still try a tubeless rimstrip from bontrager, someone said that helped?


What tires?


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## floxy (May 17, 2008)

hillharman said:


> What tires?


See above

Running rim strips sucks and would turn me away from these rims. Anyone else with a similar experience. I normally run Spec tubeless tires with good success and no burping.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Got my wheels today! They're the sexiest bike part I've ever had my hands on. Chad(RedBarn) built them for me and he said they built up quite easily. They were straight and built up with even tension and such. He wants a report after I get a few hundred miles on them.

After reading what "two-one" said about the possible tubeless compatibility issues, I went out and bought a set of the Rhythm(622 by 21mm) rim strips. These are NOT the first rims I want to have burping/dismounting issues with so I went the safe route and added the 35gr strip to each wheel. Anyway, Chad ran a strip of Stans tape around them so I left that on there and put the Rhythm strip over it. Used Stans Universal 35mm valves. I could BARELY get a used set of IKON EXOs on the rims by hand! They fit TIGHT! I got them on and tried my best, by hand, to set the bead in the Rhythm strip's grooves and stuck the floor pump on them. BOTH tires filled right up with no soap/water! They fit tight, seated with nothing but a floor pump and would have most likely held air overnight if I had the patience to try it out. I am VERY impressed with initial setup. I then aired them down to 10psi and tried to push the bead out of it's seat and couldn't. These tires aren't burping or blowing of the rim anytime soon

I went from the following setup:
Flows
Hope Pro2 EVO 15mm thru front/King 135x10mm thru rear
DT Champions/DT brass nips
Hans Dampfs f/r

to the new setup:
Light-Bicycle carbon AM rims
American Classic 15mm thru front/DT Swiss 240s 135x10mm thru rear
Sapim CX Ray spokes/DT alloy nips
IKON EXO f/r

My Sultan went from 29.2lbs to 26.6lbs 2.6lbs lost and it was almost all rotating mass! I can't wait to go ride!!!


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

DFYFZX said:


> After reading what "two-one" said about the possible tubeless compatibility issues, I went out and bought a set of the Rhythm(622 by 21mm) rim strips. These are NOT the first rims I want to have burping/dismounting issues with so I went the safe route and added the 35gr strip to each wheel. Anyway, Chad ran a strip of Stans tape around them so I left that on there and put the Rhythm strip over it. Used Stans Universal 35mm valves. I could BARELY get a used set of IKON EXOs on the rims by hand! They fit TIGHT! I got them on and tried my best, by hand, to set the bead in the Rhythm strip's grooves and stuck the floor pump on them. BOTH tires filled right up with no soap/water! They fit tight, seated with nothing but a floor pump and would have most likely held air overnight if I had the patience to try it out. I am VERY impressed with initial setup. I then aired them down to 10psi and tried to push the bead out of it's seat and couldn't. These tires aren't burping or blowing of the rim anytime soon


That does sound promising! Then I'll definately go that route.

Would you mind doublechecking the yellow-tape only method too? Just to see if I'm getting too paranoid


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

BruceBrown said:


> It could be, but we all have to make choices with our equipment. Those choices include cost, safety, intended use, rider weight, riding style, type of bike, etc... . I've been looking at these rims as well for a possible build, but until some more of the kinks are worked out (i.e. there are too many posts in this thread that I would rate as poor quality control from the manufacturer) and many months of off road riding/racing occur with the test guinea pigs with reports back of how the rims have held up - I will wait to see.
> 
> I do hope that your carbon rims perform and hold up better than the "cheap" rim you highlight in your December 17th, 2011 blog post.
> 
> _"I was rolling down some stairs that go into a switchback, when I leaned too hard on the outside bar while applying the front brake. Wups. The wheel just folded over like Newt Gingrich after a call from Grover Norquist. Rim was cracked at the pinned seam (yeah, it was a cheapo rim)..."_


Says the fear monger. Please, post more pics of OTHER rims that have failed in this thread. Your point's been made. That's not a picture of one of these rims failing. I don't see what business it has in this thread at all.

We've all broken wheels. We'll all break more wheels when it's over. We may even break some of these. Sometimes it's due to the rider, sometimes the terrain, and sometimes the quality of the build. This is an expedition. We know that. If you're not on board that's cool - just sit back and enjoy the show.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

wish i could post pics of my new rims all built up. unfortunately using the information on American Classic website for hub dimensions, and the 603ERD suggested i have 64 expensive DT Swiss Aerolite spokes that are all too long... :madman:

of the 4 rims shipped to me two of them looked great. one of them looks like it has been fixed with some black bondo in the same location other's have showed pictures of some over aggressive sanding. one of them shows the same over aggressive sanding as pictured.

i contacted Nancy and sent her pictures, she said she would send a replacement rim for the one that had the un-repaired blem and said that they have fixed their QC issues. i have yet to receive the replacement rim though....

to be 100% honest i am fairly pleased with the service and communication so far. i have dealt with all the same issues when dealing with anyone else in the bike industry, so they didn't have a very high bar to hurdle!


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## mattgVT (Nov 9, 2010)

I've got my two rims in recently, 3k glossy finish and I think they look quite nice on the exterior rim. The rim bed isn't as nice, clearly a lot of sanding happened, but it looks relatively even. No noticeable issues with the bead but the sanding on the upper lip of the bead is not quite even in width on both sides (I'll post pics at some point if that doesn't make sense). I'm going to build the wheelset myself, I have a Chub front hub 20mm, and the new e13 xcx rear hub which should be interesting to try out. I've not heard too much about them, but they have 3 pawls, engaging two teeth on the drive ring at a time, with 60 teeth in the drive ring, so 6 degrees of crank rotation per click. It wasn't as expensive as the big guys either (king, hadley, i9) at about 200 even - time will tell if the investment was worth it. I'm going to use dt revolution spokes and nipples. Should be a fun project. Not sure what the final weight will be, but should be a bit lighter than my current Charger Pro 29's. Plus going lighter tires, Ardent's to Ikons but still going to have both just for different riding areas.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

whybotherme said:


> wish i could post pics of my new rims all built up. unfortunately using the information on American Classic website for hub dimensions, and the 603ERD suggested i have 64 expensive DT Swiss Aerolite spokes that are all too long... :madman:


Did you confirm the ERD? What length spokes did you buy? What nipples did you buy? Post your spoke length calc. I'm guessing you found that out by lacing the wheel up... got a picture?
I'll help you figure out what happened and hopefully a fix if you want.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Haven't we seen the ERD posted multiple times?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

two-one said:


> That does sound promising! Then I'll definately go that route.
> 
> Would you mind doublechecking the yellow-tape only method too? Just to see if I'm getting too paranoid


Since the tires are already mounted and the bikes ready to ride, I'm not going to take the tires off. Also, those Rhythm strips are in there! I have no idea how to get them out without damaging them. I will say, considering there was a layer of Stan's tape AND a rim strip, I wanna say the tires would have been pretty loose with just tape. Considering IKONs fit fairly tight anyway, I'd say a lot of tires would run loose and have burping issues. Notoriously tight fitting tires would be the safe route if you want to just run tape...


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## O-h (Feb 4, 2012)

When it comes to choosing spoke length...measure at least twice and order and/or cut once.

Planning my upgraded wheelset for my 29er that I do not have in my possession yet. I'm thinking about Novatec rear, Cannondale Lefty Front, 32 DT competitions (or super comps, or CX Ray), but am between Crests and the 30 mm China carbon when it comes to rims. The tubeless compatibility might tip the scale for Crests even though carbon would probably make a stiffer wheel.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

O-h said:


> When it comes to choosing spoke length...measure at least twice and order and/or cut once.
> 
> Planning my upgraded wheelset for my 29er that I do not have in my possession yet. I'm thinking about Novatec rear, Cannondale Lefty Front, 32 DT competitions (or super comps, or CX Ray), but am between Crests and the 30 mm China carbon when it comes to rims. The tubeless compatibility might tip the scale for Crests even though carbon would probably make a stiffer wheel.


Should be a big difference in stiffness between Crest and carbon AM...especially on a 29er.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> Since the tires are already mounted and the bikes ready to ride, I'm not going to take the tires off. Also, those Rhythm strips are in there! I have no idea how to get them out without damaging them. I will say, considering there was a layer of Stan's tape AND a rim strip, I wanna say the tires would have been pretty loose with just tape. Considering IKONs fit fairly tight anyway, I'd say a lot of tires would run loose and have burping issues. Notoriously tight fitting tires would be the safe route if you want to just run tape...


I'm running the wide rims with just Stan's tape, ardent 2.4, and ikon with no burping so far :thumbsup. 25-30psi


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

uphiller said:


> Haven't we seen the ERD posted multiple times?


Sure... and thousands of wheelsets have probably been built with the American Classic published hub numbers... just covering bases to hone in on what the problem is with his calculations or build. :thumbsup:


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

this is my second set, these are the narrower ones. They are very good. Feel bad for those who are hesitant...

*edit* yes these are tubeless*


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

bt said:


> this is my second set, these are the narrower ones. They are very good. Feel bad for those who are hesitant...


Are you running these tubeless?


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

DFYFZX said:


> Got my wheels today! They're the sexiest bike part I've ever had my hands on. Chad(RedBarn) built them for me and he said they built up quite easily. They were straight and built up with even tension and such. He wants a report after I get a few hundred miles on them.
> 
> After reading what "two-one" said about the possible tubeless compatibility issues, I went out and bought a set of the Rhythm(622 by 21mm) rim strips. These are NOT the first rims I want to have burping/dismounting issues with so I went the safe route and added the 35gr strip to each wheel. Anyway, Chad ran a strip of Stans tape around them so I left that on there and put the Rhythm strip over it. Used Stans Universal 35mm valves. I could BARELY get a used set of IKON EXOs on the rims by hand! They fit TIGHT! I got them on and tried my best, by hand, to set the bead in the Rhythm strip's grooves and stuck the floor pump on them. BOTH tires filled right up with no soap/water! They fit tight, seated with nothing but a floor pump and would have most likely held air overnight if I had the patience to try it out. I am VERY impressed with initial setup. I then aired them down to 10psi and tried to push the bead out of it's seat and couldn't. These tires aren't burping or blowing of the rim anytime soon
> 
> ...


That there is probably the biggest difference in weight. Don't the Hans D weigh nearly 300g more than the Ikons?


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## S/X Runner (Jun 5, 2011)

Has anyone bought the fully built up rims from light-bicycle? I wonder if they would make these in the wide version and heavier, maybe 450ish grams (250lb guy here).

carbon 29er wheel mountain bike clincher - light-bicycle


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## clarkalewis (Mar 2, 2004)

they will make a heavier rim for you, just ask "nancy"


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

A question to everyone that has the "matt" finished rims- Is the "matt" finish actually molded into and part of the rim, or is it a finish that is applied after it is molded, that can be rubbed/buffed off?
I'm wondering if the matt finish will look "splotchy"  over time, and if the glossy finish may be easier to keep looking uniform, with wear and use.

These rims seem great, I'm thinking about trying a set of the wide 26" ones.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

its just a matte clearcoat instead of glossy clear coat...shouldnt be an issue


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

^^ Cool, good to know. Hmmm...a pair of UD glossy, wide 26" rims is calling out to me, lol :thumbsup:


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

I have been riding them for about 1.5months now. the narrower one. To run tubeless I used two layers of stan's yellow tape. I have found out they don't work well with a Maxxis Aspen. Burped it an a slow part of the trail and couldn't get to reseat. Changed it out to a Bontrager TLR tire and aired it up with just a floor pump. May add more stan's yellow tape. Also, I am going to start using tighter beaded tires.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

deoreo said:


> A question to everyone that has the "matt" finished rims- Is the "matt" finish actually molded into and part of the rim, or is it a finish that is applied after it is molded, that can be rubbed/buffed off?
> I'm wondering if the matt finish will look "splotchy"  over time, and if the glossy finish may be easier to keep looking uniform, with wear and use.
> 
> These rims seem great, I'm thinking about trying a set of the wide 26" ones.


I think the matt finish is easy to scratch. On building, I did one bad move and scratch it. This is painted finish sprayed or epoxy resin finish. This is a lot prone to scracth than anodized alloy rims...


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

I have one layer of yellow tape, sealed no prob. Schwalbe Ralph SS.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

Sealling and staying inflated seam to be two different things. Sure I got the Aspen sealed. but, it still came off while riding at 28-30ish psi


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

mat g said:


> I think the matt finish is easy to scratch. On building, I did one bad move and scratch it. This is painted finish sprayed or epoxy resin finish. This is a lot prone to scracth than anodized alloy rims...


It depends on the strength of the finish. My ENVE bars look brand new after 2 years and countless crashes and control(brakes/shifter) swaps. I'm guessing ENVE's finish is much better but I also am being realistic and expect to scratch the hell out of my UD finish just like I did my anodized Stans Flows I don't think ANY carbon rim finish will last better than any other after being put thru some serious miles...


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*Are there narrower xc rims for the 29ers?*



DukeNeverwinter said:


> I have been riding them for about 1.5months now. the narrower one. To run tubeless I used two layers of stan's yellow tape. I have found out they don't work well with a Maxxis Aspen. Burped it an a slow part of the trail and couldn't get to reseat. Changed it out to a Bontrager TLR tire and aired it up with just a floor pump. May add more stan's yellow tape. Also, I am going to start using tighter beaded tires.


I ordered the AM rims for 400 grams, but i am looking at building some race wheels as well. I only saw narrow rims for the 26 inch wheeled bikes. I would be interested in some crest wheel dimensions for around 350 grams if they made them.


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## D93 (Oct 19, 2011)

Are these rims UD carbon, or is it s carbon weave with a UD finish?

Looking at the photos on their website it doesn't look like theres much of a bead lip on the rims. Don't think I would trust them for tubeless AM riding.


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## floxy (May 17, 2008)

Is anyone using the Carvers xc190 from bikeempowerment ? They have an ad in the classifieds..few bucks more but shipped from US and a few grams lighter. Was emailing with them today and he says they're havng good luck with tubless using just yellow tape.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

I am using the Carvers. Tubeless depends on the tire on them. Aspen is a no go. Any Bontrager TLR tire works great. Any tight beaded tire works well also.


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## crackednipples (Jan 13, 2010)

I really do not want to look thru 34 pages of posts but......
Any chance this is where Spec get their carbon rims for the Rovals? They look quite simular....


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

crackednipples said:


> I really do not want to look thru 34 pages of posts but......
> Any chance this is where Spec get their carbon rims for the Rovals? They look quite simular....


I prefer you to look through the posts or use the search function.

HTH

k,thx


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

crackednipples said:


> I really do not want to look thru 34 pages of posts but......
> Any chance this is where Spec get their carbon rims for the Rovals? They look quite simular....


They said they don't make wheels for specialized but do make their carbon frames.


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## crackednipples (Jan 13, 2010)

aosty said:


> I prefer you to look through the posts or use the search function.
> HTH
> k,thx


Got it.....


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

*MATTE*

it's "matte" finish


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*Don't know if this has been posted*



Alpenglow said:


> I ordered the AM rims for 400 grams, but i am looking at building some race wheels as well. I only saw narrow rims for the 26 inch wheeled bikes. I would be interested in some crest wheel dimensions for around 350 grams if they made them.


but for 29ers, they do a 27mm and 30mm wide rim. The 27mm rim can be ordered for less than 400 grams. I have some 30mm 400 gram wheels coming for my Sultan, but I will probably order 380 gram, 27mm wide rims for my race bike.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Alpenglow said:


> I ordered the AM rims for 400 grams, but i am looking at building some race wheels as well. I only saw narrow rims for the 26 inch wheeled bikes. I would be interested in some crest wheel dimensions for around 350 grams if they made them.


They sell the 26" wide versions as well (as of last week), same page as the other mtn rims, few of us have already ordered them
heres the thread


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

WR304 said:


> I'm going to have them built onto hubs and will give them a (cautious) try, although that won't be until next week sometime.


After a few weeks and some delays my new front wheel is installed and working. I'm not a huge fan of the Rock Shox Sid 29 Brain fork that came with my 2012 Epic 29er. I've always felt that it is a bit flexy. This wheel is part of my attempt to stiffen the front end of the bike. It isn't the lightest wheel possible as the aim was more to try and improve the front end feel whilst reducing fork deflection.

The hub is a 28 hole OEM Specialized Stout hub that originally came with my 2009 Epic. The hub has both 28mm end caps and a 9mm DT RWS thru bolt skewer. The stiffest option possible without replacing the fork lower legs. The spokes are DT Competition double butted spokes, brass nipples and the rim is a light-bicycle.com XC carbon fibre clincher rim, finished in 3k carbon weave and a matte finish. The new wheel weighs almost exactly the same as the alloy Specialized Roval Control 29.

I did 2h30 on the new wheel today and the improvement over using the stock alloy Specialized Roval Control 29 wheel was quite noticeable. The front end was more controlled and less jittery, especially when braking on rough ground, and I could turn in more precisely on tighter lines than before without needing to turn the bars as much. It's difficult to quantify just how much of a change it really makes but subjectively I was pleased with the handling improvement over the previous wheel.

That's largely down to the 9mm DT RWS thru bolt hub and stiffer spokes, rather than the carbon rim. The front end did seem to ride nicely but with so many changes at once it's hard to say how much each individual change contributes. I went and did some rocky descents, including a fast 30mph descent across water bars. The carbon fibre rim handled it without any issues.

If it holds up over the next few days then I'll go ahead and have the Powertap rear wheel built into the other carbon rim too.

My new front wheel has really helped stiffen the Epic's front end and improve responsiveness: Specialized Stout hub, DT Competition spokes, light-bicycle.com carbon fibre XC clincher rim


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

two-one said:


> HOWEVER... the tubeless fit is not as good as I was hoping, and burping will happen, probably even with 2 wraps of Gorilla tape... so if you want to ride very low pressures, i would advise the ZTR Arch EX rim over this one...


First of all, you need to state whether you are using the XC (narrow) or AM (30mm wide) version. The bead seat is very different between the two, the AM being very, very close to a Stans rim.

I couldn't disagree with you more for the AM rim. I've run a front Ikon EXO as low as 18 psi (170lb rider) on my full rigid without a single burp or dribble of sealant and it has taken some hard hits. This is with a single layer of 25mm yellow tape. Its just like any other tubelss setup in that it all depends on the tire/rim combination. There are no guarantees even with some of the supposedly "tubeless ready" tires.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

WR304 said:


> That's largely down to the 9mm DT RWS thru bolt hub and stiffer spokes, rather than the carbon rim.


Spokes have very little to do with wheel "stiffness".


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> Spokes have very little to do with wheel "stiffness".


What I was trying to say is that the bike felt good today, as a result of having multiple small improvements added together.

Not simply because the wheel rim is made of carbon fibre.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> I couldn't disagree with you more for the AM rim. I've run a front Ikon EXO as low as 18 psi (170lb rider) on my full rigid without a single burp or dribble of sealant and it has taken some hard hits. This is with a single layer of 25mm yellow tape. Its just like any other tubelss setup in that it all depends on the tire/rim combination. There are no guarantees even with some of the supposedly "tubeless ready" tires.


Agreed 100%!


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

ktm520 said:


> Spokes have very little to do with wheel "stiffness".


So using rubber bands instead won't affect wheel stiffness?

Spoke gauge affects wheel stiffness
Spoke tension affects wheel strength

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ktm520 said:


> First of all, you need to state whether you are using the XC (narrow) or AM (30mm wide) version. The bead seat is very different between the two, the AM being very, very close to a Stans rim.
> 
> I couldn't disagree with you more for the AM rim. I've run a front Ikon EXO as low as 18 psi (170lb rider) on my full rigid without a single burp or dribble of sealant and it has taken some hard hits. This is with a single layer of 25mm yellow tape. Its just like any other tubelss setup in that it all depends on the tire/rim combination. There are no guarantees even with some of the supposedly "tubeless ready" tires.


Keep in mind they are getting their QC sorted out still based on some of the pics I see on here. Maybe you got lucky ad got a really nice set of rims and he didn't.

That's part of what you're willing to put up with for the price, large variances on quality.

That variance is the may reason I'm waiting.


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

Just received my AM rims. Look perfect. 398 for one, 406 for the other.


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## S/X Runner (Jun 5, 2011)

What is the difference from the AM and "regular" rims? Is it width? Or a combination of things?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

langen said:


> So using rubber bands instead won't affect wheel stiffness?
> 
> Spoke gauge affects wheel stiffness
> Spoke tension affects wheel strength
> ...


the key phrase there being "very little":thumbsup: Not the same thing as no affect.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Keep in mind they are getting their QC sorted out still based on some of the pics I see on here. Maybe you got lucky ad got a really nice set of rims and he didn't.
> 
> That's part of what you're willing to put up with for the price, large variances on quality.
> 
> That variance is the may reason I'm waiting.


Well, I didn't hear him make any statements about getting a bad set, so one could assume a lot of things. And, lets not blow the whole QC thing out of proportion. We have no idea what the real statistics look like. 5 guys posting here with problems is not a "large variance on quality".


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

marmotman said:


> So I built up one of my rims into a rear wheel and everything looks good, but the other rim I ordered has some issues with the bead seat, there is approximately a 7-8 mm portion that will effectively prohibit the tire from seating correctly. Has anybody else seen this issue? If so, any luck filing or sanding it down on your own?





ktm520 said:


> Well, I didn't hear him make any statements about getting a bad set, so one could assume a lot of things. And, lets not blow the whole QC thing out of proportion. We have no idea what the real statistics look like. 5 guys posting here with problems is not a "large variance on quality".


Well all I have to go on is what I have in front of me, when I see pictures of almost perfect rims, then the picture above, that is a large variance. The rim above should never have been shipped. So we'll have to agree to disagree, I think their QC is lacking. I'm sure they'll work on it and it will get better.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

twotone said:


> keep in mind they are getting their qc sorted out still based on some of the pics i see on here. Maybe you got lucky ad got a really nice set of rims and he didn't.
> 
> That's part of what you're willing to put up with for the price, large variances on quality.
> 
> That variance is the may reason i'm waiting.


wgaf


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

deleted


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

langen said:


> So using rubber bands instead won't affect wheel stiffness?


As long as they're 29er specific rubber bands.


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## Marshall Willanholly (Jan 27, 2004)

Looking for a set of these but don't want to wait? I've got a set for sale right now.

Did my taxes and found out the need to pay Uncle Sam outweighs my need for carbon rims.

I've got a set of 32h AM rims with the matte UD finish. They appear to be free of the defects I've seen in the above posts.

Never laced up, and still in the original packaging.

Light Bicycle carbon 29er AM rims - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Marshall Willanholly said:


> Looking for a set of these but don't want to wait? I've got a set for sale right now.
> 
> Did my taxes and found out the need to pay Uncle Sam outweighs my need for carbon rims.
> 
> ...


So you want more for these than what you paid. ($346 shipped from China). And from the posts here, it takes about 7-10 days to get from China. 
I'll save $50 bucks and sacrifice a couple days to buy from China. And there customer service seems to be excellent. Good luck with the sale though


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## Marshall Willanholly (Jan 27, 2004)

mucky said:


> So you want more for these than what you paid. ($346 shipped from China). And from the posts here, it takes about 7-10 days to get from China.
> I'll save $50 bucks and sacrifice a couple days to buy from China. And there customer service seems to be excellent. Good luck with the sale though


No, it's actually less than I paid. And I waited over a month for them.

This email is from Feb. 4th. I received the rims the beginning of March.

I appreciate the condescension though!


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## Hanks (Mar 28, 2012)

*Newbie wants to post a Thread (4 of 5)*

Hi I'm Hank and I'm trying to disperse my 5 mandatory replys

I don't know anything about MTB wheels yet.

Hank


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Anybody used Stan rim strips on the wide rim? If so, did you have to bore out the hole for the valve? What rim width did you use?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Hey now...*



D93 said:


> quoted insult


please leave your bigotry off this board.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Is anyone else having the expected cheap wheel build turn into something far more expensive? I was wanting to try my hand at building, but all my parts, materials and tools are gonna put me at just under a grand. Not so cheap anymore. I was planning on using hope hubs, these rims, some reasonable spokes. But I need a truing stand and some other tools. I dunno if it is worth it to me.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Why don't use a wheelbuilder instead?


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Adim_X

You need a screw driver and a spoke key. Once the wheels are laced, they can be trued and rounded in the bike. You can make a dishing tool out of a piece of cardboard and a ruler.

Zorg

Some people enjoy building their own wheels. Not everyone just coughs up umty times the true value of everything because it's easy.


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

Adim_X said:


> expected cheap wheel build


there's your error: omission. "cheap wheel" is not the same as "cheap carbon fiber wheel."


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Adim_X said:


> Is anyone else having the expected cheap wheel build turn into something far more expensive? I was wanting to try my hand at building, but all my parts, materials and tools are gonna put me at just under a grand. Not so cheap anymore. I was planning on using hope hubs, these rims, some reasonable spokes. But I need a truing stand and some other tools. I dunno if it is worth it to me.


You can save some cash by getting the excellent online book The Professional Guide to Wheel Building by Roger Musson. He'll tell you how to make a nice truing stand from MDF or plywood... you'll only need a good spoketool (spokey!)

Now, whenever I have to work with a metal truing stand, I regret not bringing my own DIY one, cause its so nice!


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

two-one said:


> You can save some cash by getting the excellent online book The Professional Guide to Wheel Building by Roger Musson. He'll tell you how to make a nice truing stand from MDF or plywood... you'll only need a good spoketool (spokey!)
> 
> Now, whenever I have to work with a metal truing stand, I regret not bringing my own DIY one, cause its so nice!


I read Roger's book the other night, and his stand did look impressive. I would like to know some alternatives to the metal peices he used to support the axle, because I don't have machine tools readily available. I also don't have any cutting tools. I am scared of saws, :eekster:

I am wondering if I can get by on a sub $100 truing stand from amazon or ebay. My natural inclination is to get a park ts 2.2 but that is probably way too much tool for the 4-5 wheel sets I may build over the next few years.

I will talk to my father in law who has much more wood working material to see if he wants to work on a project with me. It could be a good bonding experience. Thanks for the replies guys.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

zorg said:


> Anybody used Stan rim strips on the wide rim? If so, did you have to bore out the hole for the valve? What rim width did you use?


Yes, yes, 25mm


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

bquinn, what tire(s) are you using with the rim strip? how thick is the rim strip?


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## 12snap (Mar 11, 2004)

You don't need to spend huge on a truing stand. I've built 20 or so wheels with this one: Spin Doctor Truing Stand II - Terrifying Tool Deals


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

bquinn said:


> Yes, yes, 25mm


Thanks. The 25mm is the standard rim strip, correct?


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

zorg said:


> Thanks. The 25mm is the standard rim strip, correct?


Zorg, maybe you already have the stans strips, but bontrager 29er rim strips fit the ticket.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Thanks. Actually, I'm getting the wide 26" rim, and I got a few Stan strips that have worked really well over the years.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

deoreo said:


> A question to everyone that has the "matt" finished rims- Is the "matt" finish actually molded into and part of the rim, or is it a finish that is applied after it is molded, that can be rubbed/buffed off?
> I'm wondering if the matt finish will look "splotchy"  over time, and if the glossy finish may be easier to keep looking uniform, with wear and use.
> 
> These rims seem great, I'm thinking about trying a set of the wide 26" ones.


I've done 10 hours riding on the light-bicycle.com XC carbon front rim and 4h30 on the XC carbon rear rim now. The wheels appear to be working well so far. I'm running them with tubes rather than tubeless and have had no issues. Replacing the 32H alloy Roval Control 29 rim on my Powertap rear wheel with the light-bicycle.com XC carbon rim saved roughly 100g.

The 3k carbon and matte rim finish without any decals looks good. It's very understated. I stopped off at the bike shop on the way home today and they asked if I'd tried my carbon rims yet, not noticing that they were both fitted to the bike. When you first look at them you just see a black rim, the second time you look a bit closer at the rim and see it's actually a grayish colour, the third time you look more closely and see the 3k carbon weave.

It's worth noting that the carbon rims do scratch easily. When you scratch them the scratch is silver and quite visible. I dropped the track pump head onto my rear rim and the rim has got a scratch on now.


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## D93 (Oct 19, 2011)

Just ordered the 26 wider in UD Matte.

Anyone know how long they are taking to ship nowadays?


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

I received my rims today ~ 6 days USPS express. I ordered 29" AM 12k Matte. They look pretty good. The exterior finish is excellent and the rim bed does not have unfinished blobs of JB weld. They are not perfect but for $155 a piece ...pretty good. I will have to bore out 1 of the valve-stem holes in the rim bed as it is not big enough for Stan's stem, and the valve stem hole in the other rim was not exactly round, but it will work ok. Approx 5" along one side of one of the rims beds sits slightly higher than it's opposite side, maybe 1/32" higher, not much but it is noticeable. Hard to say how that will work out with a tire on it. Have not weighed them yet.

*They weighed in at 390 and 410*


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

Just had the 29 AM matte UD light bicycle rim laced with DT supercomp on CK hubs total weight of wheels 1660 grams

Wheelbuilder said they







built up easily

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Adim_X said:


> But I need a truing stand and some other tools. I dunno if it is worth it to me.





MagicCarpet said:


> Adim_X
> 
> You need a screw driver and a spoke key. Once the wheels are laced, they can be trued and rounded in the bike. You can make a dishing tool out of a piece of cardboard and a ruler.


MagicCarpet has the answer for you. Put your bike upside down on the bars/seat and you now have a truing stand. Throw an old towel under the bars/seat so you don't scratch them up if you care about such things. Fasten a zip tie to your frame and cut it so that it just touches the rim.

I'm too lazy to make a dishing tool, so I just put the wheel in backwards and use the same zip tie to measure the change in center. If it's dished correctly, the rim will be in the same spot regardless of which way you put the wheel in.

It would certainly be more ergonomic to have a nice stand, but I'd rather spend my money on other things. Maybe I'll find some time this summer to push a couple scraps of MDF across the table saw and try the DIY stand mentioned here.

Tension is set by plucking them. I did borrow a friend's tension meter after building my first full set of wheels and everything was spot on. If you're going to spend some money on tooling, I'd consider this a higher priority since you won't have a good feel for how much tension is correct until you've built a couple wheels.

Good luck on deciding which way to go. No matter what you'll have a nice set of wheels in the end, which is always fun


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## funkydrum (Mar 10, 2007)

DukeNeverwinter said:


> I am using the Carvers. Tubeless depends on the tire on them. Aspen is a no go. Any Bontrager TLR tire works great. Any tight beaded tire works well also.


Any pics or more reviews on the Carver rims? I did notice that sister company Bikeman had advertised them in their Dirtrag 'Dirty Thirty' monthly ad and website. However, they are mysteriously missing now?!?

Carver Carbon 29'er Rims are on the way


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## Ellsworth2001 (Mar 31, 2012)

Just spent a couple hours or more reading through the whole thread. It was soooo worth it. Thank you guys. And thank you MTBR


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

Ellsworth2001 said:


> Just spent a couple hours or more reading through the whole thread. It was soooo worth it. Thank you guys. And thank you MTBR


+rep for taking the time to read the thread, instead of doing the lazy noob thing by asking questions that have been answered multiple times already in earlier posts


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Adim_X said:


> I read Roger's book the other night, and his stand did look impressive. I would like to know some alternatives to the metal peices he used to support the axle, because I don't have machine tools readily available. I also don't have any cutting tools. I am scared of saws, :eekster:
> 
> I am wondering if I can get by on a sub $100 truing stand from amazon or ebay. My natural inclination is to get a park ts 2.2 but that is probably way too much tool for the 4-5 wheel sets I may build over the next few years.
> 
> I will talk to my father in law who has much more wood working material to see if he wants to work on a project with me. It could be a good bonding experience. Thanks for the replies guys.


I just have a cheapo Performance Bike Forte wheel truing stand. It works great. Just remember not to go by the dishing gauge built in because you can slide it back and forth, unless you blow the extra dough on a truing stand centering tool. Better to use the turing guides and flip the wheel over often to be sure it's straight and centered. IIRC, they go for like $80, but occasionally go on mega-sale for cheaper. If you need to build offset wheels (like for a Pugsly) this is probably not such a good choice, but just about all wheels are built dead center.

Spin Doctor Truing Stand II - Bike Tools / Bike Workstands


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Mounted a Renegade Control tubeless on my rear AM rim last weekend. Fit was as tight as Ikon, but it took air easier. This is not a surprise considering it has a much smoother bead than the Ikon. Just another data point for you all.


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

Got mine laced up sunday night. Lefty front hub, DT 240 12x142 rear. Sapium lasers for the front. 1/2 lasers, 1/2 DT race for the rear. They need to be finshed up/trued. So far with no tape they came in at 1515grams.


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## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

*very good*



infanterene said:


> Those rims look awesome. I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.


I've been running them on my I-9s for a few months or so. Best wheels I've ever ridden. A burp or two to begin with, but since I threw in a Bonty tubeless rim strip they've held up perfectly for about 15+ rides now. FWIW, I destroy a lot of ****...


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

how do the schwalbes seal up, pretty easily? all i run are nobby nics and have always been able to seat them with zero drama
also, are those the wide rims, and are your tires ust or standard?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Bear Spleen said:


> I've been running them on my I-9s for a few months or so. Best wheels I've ever ridden. A burp or two to begin with, but since I threw in a Bonty tubeless rim strip they've held up perfectly for about 15+ rides now. FWIW, I destroy a lot of ****...


Good to hear they are working for you. Not surprised you had a few burps with Scwalbe tires.


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## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

Yes, took about five minutes. The Bonty strips were essential, though. Rims are wide, and tires are tubeless ready Hans Dampfs


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## bert-prologue (Aug 25, 2007)

ordered some rims 12th march. not received yet and no response to my last 2 emails. i'm a bit worried about this.....
anyone who has some: how long from ordering did it take to get them?


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

I ordered February 1st and received a tracking number on the 16th, that was during Chinese new year. 

Just finished lacing up the rim (UD matte, 32h) with an Extralite Hyperlefty hub and Sapim CX rays, 641 grams. Hopefully I can ride the wheel over the weekend but so far I've been impressed.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Bear Spleen said:


> Yes, took about five minutes. The Bonty strips were essential, though. Rims are wide, and tires are tubeless ready Hans Dampfs


Is that the Bontrager Rhythm strip 21mm width?. Curious as I use the Rhythm strip 29"er version on my Velocity Blunts.


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## bert-prologue (Aug 25, 2007)

16 days from ordering would equate to march 28th for me. maybe its just a lot of backlog they are dealing with, i don't know. i wish they would answer my emails though i just want to know whats happening but i can wait.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> bquinn, what tire(s) are you using with the rim strip? how thick is the rim strip?


Racing Ralph SS 2.25's. One layer of Stan's 25mm tape. Thickness?
Absolutely zero issues so far. Hold air great. Ride at ~25psi front, 27psi rear ( I weigh 170 ). Best part of my bike for sure!


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

bert-prologue said:


> 16 days from ordering would equate to march 28th for me. maybe its just a lot of backlog they are dealing with, i don't know. i wish they would answer my emails though i just want to know whats happening but i can wait.


try the chat feature on the website...i haven't had any problems with that method, but have a had 1 out of 3 emails not responded to


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## girlscantell (Oct 19, 2008)

I've found that the simpler the language I use, the quicker nancy replies. Perseverance pays off. I've emailed continuously til they've replied. I ordered rims w/ a logo 3/1 and they shipped 3/30.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

clewttu said:


> try the chat feature on the website...i haven't had any problems with that method, but have a had 1 out of 3 emails not responded to


^^^^agreed. Have always had quick response with their chat, just time the chat to match the timezone.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

BruceBrown said:


> Is that the Bontrager Rhythm strip 21mm width?. Curious as I use the Rhythm strip 29"er version on my Velocity Blunts.


I'm using the rhythm strip in my wide AM rims. Fits like they were made for them


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Well I ordered a pair of road rims from them on 3/19 and it took them 10 business days instead of 7 days to complete. Nancy was out of the office on Monday 4/2, but I spoke with somebody else and they said that the shipping carrier was out on vacation/holiday until today or tomorrow.


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## smoove_ride (Jun 13, 2008)

*Wheels built...*

Hi All... FWIW, here's my build spec:

DT 240s (15 thru front, 10 RWS rear.. CL rotors)
DT Revo's, 32 hole, 3X front and rear (294mm all around.. worked out fine)
rims are the lighter, narrower spec.. 3K matte. (385g-ish each)

i have no idea how much they weigh, gotta find a scale. this 'cheap' wheel build still cost me about $900 total and that's with the bro-deal on the hubs and spokes!! cheaper than ENVE's, but still a bit of cash.

what are folks doing for tape? i was thinking 1-2 wraps of the 25mm wide Stans tape. i'm pretty light, and using special-guys tires. reading thru the postings it would seem like that *should* work... -smoove.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

I've also been waiting 2 weeks for a shipment to come through, though I am not overly worried about it. Tuesday and Wednesday this week are holidays in China, so you're unlikely to hear anything from them right now.


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

*Light Bicycle customer service*



bert-prologue said:


> ordered some rims 12th march. not received yet and no response to my last 2 emails. i'm a bit worried about this.....
> anyone who has some: how long from ordering did it take to get them?


I ordered the 29 wider rims in Feb. 2012, UD finish 32h, and it took about a month to receive the rims.

I have a feeling they are getting busy over there, as a previous e-mail I sent them, asking if I need to use nipple backing washers on the wheel build, went unanswered.


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## bert-prologue (Aug 25, 2007)

:thumbsup:nancy just replied, rims are finished.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

Where are people purchasing these from? I'm currently using the Marzocchi Micro Ti with the QR15, anyone know where I can find a good set of gold colored hubs that will support a 15mm front axle? I have random gold bits on the bike.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Hope makes some nice hubs in all colors, including gold


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## karatemonkey (Mar 9, 2007)

Just put in my order! So psyched! These are going to go on a Transition Bandit 29 and given a proper thrashing in the rocky desert SW. I will be sure to report back on durability after a month or so of big-airs, sideways landings, rock gardens and general abuse. Going to build with DT 240s, Comps (maybe supercomps?), and prolock alloys. Hoping for a sub-1600g set  which will net me a total weight savings of 727g or 1.6 pounds over the stock wheels!!! And I'd bet that the carbon wheels will be stiffer and stronger! Woot Woot! Now I can add a dropper post and still be lighter than the stock build! Cheap carbon is the shiznit! 

Thanks to all y'all OG's for guniea piggin these for me. The pics and reports gave me the confidence to pull the trigger.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Triaxtremec said:


> Where are people purchasing these from? I'm currently using the Marzocchi Micro Ti with the QR15, anyone know where I can find a good set of gold colored hubs that will support a 15mm front axle? I have random gold bits on the bike.


Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) - light-bicycle

Chris King, Hadley, Industry9 and Hope all make GOOD gold hubs:thumbsup:


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## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

*Extended test report*

I've been riding these rims laced onto I-9 wheels since late January. I attempted to build the front wheel myself but had difficulty keeping it in round, so our mechanic finished it off and completed the rear in full. He had this to say: "They're not much harder to build than aluminum rims." Brass nipples and 2.0/1.8 Wheelsmith spokes. I measured an ERD of 602. Final tension was 20-22 on the Park tensionmeter. Weight for the set was a bit over four pounds (without skewers). I used Caffelatex rim tape with a Stans tubeless valve, and mounted Hans Dampfs with 90ml of Slime Pro. Pumped the tire up (with a floor pump, no less) until I heard the telltale pop, and then reduced the pressure to about 25PSI (200lb rider).

My first ride was on slushy, snow covered ice, and the tire burped about an hour in. This happened again the next day, again about an hour in. For the next month, I used studded tires out of necessity (mine are not tubeless compatible) and rode an average of about twice a week on the wheels.

4-6 weeks ago, under the advice of indyfab25 ( :thumbsup: ), I installed a Bontrager tubeless rim strip over the Caffelatex tape. Since then, I have not had a single flat, burp, or other unpleasantness in ~20 rides. During this time period, my pressure has fluctuated greatly. At the lowest possible pressure of 19 psi, I was consistently hitting rim, occasionally on sharp rocks and frequently at pace. Recently, I have begun to do a bit more freeriding including dirt jumps, 2-3 foot drops, and high speeds through rock gardens. Just for giggles, I flipped the lockout on my suspension occasionally before big drops. The wheels are as true now as they were the day they were built, and no one's done a thing to them.

Ride quality? Uh&#8230;good! Stiffness? Uh&#8230;really stiff! Honestly, I don't feel right fabricating some technobabble to sound smart. I don't ride with a discerning eye toward minute details. I ride because it's fun, and if getting so caught up in the thrill of it that you lose the ability to analyze minuscule details is a crime, then paint me guilty


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

How hard were your rim hits? Would they have damaged an alloy rim? I'm assuming they didn't cause any damage? I used to hit my Flows from time to time(never visibly damaged one) running low 20s but have been staying at 30PSI with these because I'm scared of crunching one. Are they more resilient than I think they are?


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

Anybody gotten the new 29er rims from Carbonal yet? Only 350gms each...


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## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

DFYFZX said:


> How hard were your rim hits? Would they have damaged an alloy rim? I'm assuming they didn't cause any damage?


Hard enough to make me worry. I can't say if the same hits would have damaged an alloy rim, but my past 717s and 719s definitely have a few noticeable dings. Actually, the 717 has a big enough dent that tires no longer mount correctly on it.

No indications of damage as of yet, but I intend to keep trying


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Good to know! I may drop a few PSI and try harder to find that thin line


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Can anybody comment on the radial stiffness of these rims compared to aluminum ones? I mean, do they feel harsher when riding them on a hardtail than aluminum rims do?


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> Were you reading the conversion chart right?
> TM-1 is a fine tool. You might have gotten one that wasn't calibrated right, but that's like saying carbon road wheels are shitty because I saw a guy who had a pair with a flat. :skep:
> A poster here just recently told me how the DT Swiss spoke calc was crappy and "wrong" because he didn't know what Ø meant and was plugging in the wrong numbers.


Both tools are basically new. I was reading the chart correctly (it can be hard to do!)

I just basically used it for precision between spokes. I dont know how many KGFs my wheels are built to but they are consistent and working fine so thats all that matters.


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## Napfgeist (Jan 4, 2004)

My complete "Nancy Racing" wheelset just arrived.

28 hole / 30 mm rim
Front hub Novatec D711SB
Rear hub Novatec D712SB
Total weight: 1569 gr

The wheelset is very well built. First ride impression, stiff, fast, light - perfect!


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## g3rG (Aug 29, 2009)

Has anyone inquired about an offset spoke bed on the wide rims?

gerG


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*That's hawt.*



Napfgeist said:


> My complete "Nancy Racing" wheelset just arrived.
> 
> 28 hole / 30 mm rim
> Front hub Novatec D711SB
> ...


and extra credit crazy that those are the 'wide, heavy' carbon rim.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

my wide ones were lighter than my narrow ones


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*Do you have a link?*



FireSpitter said:


> Anybody gotten the new 29er rims from Carbonal yet? Only 350gms each...


 I can only find wheelsets


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

uphiller said:


> Can anybody comment on the radial stiffness of these rims compared to aluminum ones? I mean, do they feel harsher when riding them on a hardtail than aluminum rims do?


I've just crossed the 250 mile mark on mine. I'm running them on a Ti hardtail frame. While out today I was pondering how to describe the ride. One word, stiff. There is no give whatsoever. It is almost as if you were riding on a solid steel disc. Zero flex, zero give. It's pretty unreal.


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

Alpenglow said:


> I can only find wheelsets


This was what Jason sent me after I had sent them an enquiry for 29er rims. USD140 (1 to 9 pcs). USD 135 if more than 10 pieces.

ERD 593mm, OD 633mm, ID 586mm. Weight limit is 90kg.


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## anomaly (Jun 18, 2007)

uphiller said:


> Can anybody comment on the radial stiffness of these rims compared to aluminum ones? I mean, do they feel harsher when riding them on a hardtail than aluminum rims do?


A deflection test using a 10kg weight was run vs a Stan Arch rim and a Roval carbon rim some pages back. The "AM" rims deflected 5% less, at minimum, compared to the other 2 rims. So, they are MUCH stiffer than a Stans Arch rim and decently stiffer than a Roval carbon rim.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

hogprint said:


> I've just crossed the 250 mile mark on mine. I'm running them on a Ti hardtail frame. While out today I was pondering how to describe the ride. One word, stiff. There is no give whatsoever. It is almost as if you were riding on a solid steel disc. Zero flex, zero give. It's pretty unreal.


Wow. What kind of tire pressure do you run?
Solid steel disc sounds horrible. :skep:


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

Did my first shakedown ride today. Using tubeless on the 30mm 29er rims with nothing but yellow rim tape and STANS fluid - blew my bead in a muddy creekbed. Mud and whatnot got in there and wouldn't seal up again. Had to put a real tire in to get out of there. This is using a 2.4in Racing Ralph. 

Just redid my tubeless setups front and rear with ghetto strips - it won't be a problem again. 

The ride quality was kickass. These are strong and sturdy rims. Can't express how pleased I am with them.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

meltingfeather said:


> Wow. What kind of tire pressure do you run?
> Solid steel disc sounds horrible. :skep:


These are installed on my Ti frame gravel grinder bike. I have been running 70-80 psi so it isn't all that relevant to a typical MTB setup. My comment was merely to indicate how stiff the wheels are. There is no wheel related flex at all. Side to side, zero. Radially, zero. Honestly I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not right now. It isn't harsh feeling but it is rigid for what its worth.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

hogprint said:


> These are installed on my Ti frame gravel grinder bike. I have been running 70-80 psi so it isn't all that relevant to a typical MTB setup. My comment was merely to indicate how stiff the wheels are. There is no wheel related flex at all. Side to side, zero. Radially, zero. Honestly I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not right now. It isn't harsh feeling but it is rigid for what its worth.


According to this post the maximum pressure for the light-bicycle.com carbon MTB rims is 65psi. I'd be a bit wary of running them much higher than that. I've been using my bike (light-bicycle.com XC carbon rims) with the 29x2.1" tyres pumped up for road use the last few days, but only at 50psi.

light-bicycle.com carbon rim inflation limits
http://forums.mtbr.com/8986939-post297.html

ENVE XC carbon rims have a maximum inflation pressure of 60psi. 
Welcome to Enve Composites

I think that the Roval carbon rims have a lower maximum inflation pressure again (45-50psi) but I couldn't find where it was confirmed.

These are the tests that mat_g did comparing the stiffness of the light-bicycle carbon rims to some other rims:

mat_g rim stiffness tests
http://forums.mtbr.com/9015201-post425.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/9017701-post435.html

On my Specialized Epic 29er the carbon rear rim does maybe give a slightly harder ride than the alloy Roval rim that I was using before. With full suspension and the tyres run at offroad pressures (20psi) it's only a very minor change however. Changing my entire front wheel helped improve the handling of the bike (See Post #842) but I haven't noticed any handling difference (good or bad) after switching to a carbon rim on the rear wheel.

Front wheel changes
http://forums.mtbr.com/9142980-post842.html

.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I hear what your saying, but...

They also indicate that the road rim limit is 130psi. I'm not one of their engineers so I have no idea what they are basing those limits upon. In my case I'm running a 40mm tire, using them on road/gravel and bought the overbuilt model specifically for enhanced durability. Since the 65/130 psi relationship appears arbitrarily based on a roughly 1" tire vs a roughly 2" tire I feel quite safe running 5-15psi over their recommendation with a 40mm tire.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I'm thinking of putting some narrower tyres on my carbon rims at some point too. I mostly just use standard knobbly offroad tyres with extra air pressure in for road use if I'm riding by myself. Speed doesn't matter too much as it's the wattage that counts. 

When riding with other riders on road club runs then the roughly 0.8mph speed drop that I lose from running offroad tyres on the mountain bike, whilst everyone else is using road bikes, becomes more important. I do put slick tyres on for those rides. I'm slow enough and get dropped regularly as it is.

When it comes to breaking rims I'm generally not hard on them at all offroad. I weigh 149lbs approx and with a full suspension bike the rims normally hold up well. I hardly ever bend or dent rims offroad. Where I have broken MTB rims in the last few years though is when running tyres at higher pressures. I had two 26" DT XR 4.2D alloy rims which both split around the bead after extended use with 1.5" slick tyres at high pressure.

The danger with MTB carbon rims is that they're often designed to be run at lower tyre pressures. If they do fail due to high tyre pressures (as opposed to rock strikes) then it can be a catastrophic failure too. The picture below is a Roval Control Trail carbon rim where the owner was seating the tubeless tyre using an air compressor when the rim failed. In terms of carbon rims your re-inforced extra strength rims are going to be better than standard rims though.

Pictured below: Roval Control Trail carbon rim that failed after tyre was inflated to high pressure using an air compressor.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

*Help?*

Does anyone have a direct email for Nancy Yu?

I've got 4 of their rims sitting here, two of which are unusable due to a lack of bead clinch. I contacted her through the merchant site (aliexpress) and she replied once, but has not gotten back to me in over a week.

Any help appreciated.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

most people purchased direct from light-bicycle and not the site you mentioned, are you sure they are from the same company?
if so, go to the light-bicycle website, and contact them via chat when they are in the office or email if they have gone home for the day


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Does anyone have a direct email for Nancy Yu?
> 
> I've got 4 of their rims sitting here, two of which are unusable due to a lack of bead clinch. I contacted her through the merchant site (aliexpress) and she replied once, but has not gotten back to me in over a week.
> 
> Any help appreciated.


A wheel builder asking mtbr how to contact a wheel manufacturer?

Hilarious.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

mikesee said:


> Does anyone have a direct email for Nancy Yu?
> 
> I've got 4 of their rims sitting here, two of which are unusable due to a lack of bead clinch. I contacted her through the merchant site (aliexpress) and she replied once, but has not gotten back to me in over a week.
> 
> Any help appreciated.


Nancy Yu [email protected];

Any pic's?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

WR304 said:


> The danger with MTB carbon rims is that they're often designed to be run at lower tyre pressures. If they do fail due to high tyre pressures (as opposed to rock strikes) then it can be a catastrophic failure too. The picture below is a Roval Control Trail carbon rim where the owner was seating the tubeless tyre using an air compressor when the rim failed. In terms of carbon rims your re-inforced extra strength rims are going to be better than standard rims though.
> 
> Pictured below: Roval Control Trail carbon rim that failed after tyre was inflated to high pressure using an air compressor.


How high was he taking the pressure. Hopefully not over 40 psi....


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Second that....*



red5jedi said:


> Nancy Yu [email protected];
> 
> Any pic's?


I gotta see what a bad bead looks like.

I'm sure it's a fluke.

Yeah, when I order mine, I'm going to keep in mind that with the low price comes the possibility of return hassles/delays. I won't order them and plan to have them built for a particular race or whatever.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> How high was he taking the pressure. Hopefully not over 40 psi....


This is the thread that the picture came from. It sounded like the tyre on that broken Roval carbon rim was inflated to high pressure, much higher than 40psi.

http://forums.mtbr.com/specialized/s-works-stumpy-fsr-29er-build-769033.html

That's also the thread where I saw it mentioned that current Roval MTB carbon rims have a maximum tyre inflation pressure of 45psi.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

WR304 said:


> This is the thread that the picture came from. It sounded like the tyre on that broken Roval carbon rim was inflated to high pressure, much higher than 40psi.


Darwin would be proud.:nono:



WR304 said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/specialized/s-works-stumpy-fsr-29er-build-769033.html
> 
> That's also the thread where I saw it mentioned that current Roval MTB carbon rims have a maximum tyre inflation pressure of 45psi.


Yes, I've got the Rovals. And I have a pair of these cheap carbon rims being built up this week into a wheelset which will be known as my FEAR MONGER set of wheels.:thumbsup:


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Darwin would be proud.:nono:
> 
> Yes, I've got the Rovals. And I have a pair of these cheap carbon rims being built up this week into a wheelset which will be known as my FEAR MONGER set of wheels.:thumbsup:


The main point I was trying to make is that along with rider weight limits carbon MTB rims also have tyre inflation pressure limits. I think it's something that anyone considering carbon MTB rims should be aware of.

Here's another example. A thread from December 2011 where craigsj had a pair of Easton XC90 carbon rims. Whilst the tyre was being over inflated to seat the tyre bead the rim failed.

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/easton-ec90-xc-hub-reviews-755908.html

My light-bicycle.com carbon rims are fine. They've been holding up ok for the last few weeks. No fear required.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

some will always look a gift horse in the mouth.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Especially ....*



bt said:


> some will always look a gift horse in the mouth.


... When that gift horse undercuts the profits.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> ... When that gift horse undercuts the profits.


....by selling direct to the consumer a quality product at distributor prices while handling warranty claims better than the big boys all while being extremely accessible via chat, email, phone and fax and accepting every payment method known to man that allows everyday riders a wheel comparable to or better than the ones that cost more than we can justify and break at least as often.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

bt said:


> .... all while being extremely accessible via chat, email, phone and fax and accepting every payment method known to man ....


Will they take sexytime as payment?  

As Captain Mal says, a third of the population are middlemen, and they don't take kindly to being cut out of the middle.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> Will they take sexytime as payment?
> 
> As Captain Mal says, a third of the population are middlemen, and they don't take kindly to being cut out of the middle.


"if ya can't beat em', join em"


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

WR304 said:


> The main point I was trying to make is that along with rider weight limits carbon MTB rims also have tyre inflation pressure limits. I think it's something that anyone considering carbon MTB rims should be aware of.


Yes - I am in agreement with you. Heck - you are not to take a mountain bike tire over 40 psi on a NoTubes rim either. Doesn't stop guys from reading and then ignoring this basic instruction on the NoTubes site:

_Note: Do not exceed 40 psi when seating a mountain bike tire tubeless on Stan's rims. Do not exceed 55 psi when seating a cyclocross tire tubeless on Stan's rims._

Tire blows off a NoTubes rim and guys post - "Gee, my tire blew off the Stans rim. What's up with that?" Then you find out they took it up to 60 or 65 psi just to "set the bead" or whatever.

So - the Darwin comment was based on the photo and link to the Roval exploded rim where I am sure somebody ignored the suggested caution for psi from Specialized.

Not that too high of a psi is the only way a rim can get trashed, but it certainly seems like one that lies under the fault of the user for not adhering to the suggested cautionary guidelines.

BB


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I know that I've approached this entire inexpensive carbon rim direct from china thing with an incredible amount of caution Always with the full expectation that my 300 dollars would be written off and a nasty bike crash or installation injury could result. I've been pleasantly surprised by none of those. 

Now that some have taken the financial and physical risk to good result, the flood gates of the unwise and reckless will open.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm grateful to all the people testing these out. At the same time, riding them for a month after a successful build is not solid proof that they are reliable. The usually good visual quality of the rims, along with the good customer service, are good positive indicators (especially the second). Of course, this is part of the reason the price is so low- they are still only partially proven.


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## ccornacc (Mar 26, 2007)

I built a rear wheel with one of these rims and after the first ride they are VERY stiff. I descended some chunky rock gardens and small drops and I would say they are stiffer than the Haven Carbon's I had on before. I used a DT190 hub, double butted spokes and alloy nipples and the build came to ~820g. So far, so good!


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

pimpbot said:


> Will they take sexytime as payment?


Let us know what you find out... that could stretch my parts budget a bit. :thumbsup:


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Am saving up for a pair of the fat 29ers, lets see if they are clye worthy!


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm going to a set with the AC hubs (15mm thru on the front) and DT Competition spokes. All black with red nipples.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

sbrdude1 said:


> I'm going to a set with the AC hubs (15mm thru on the front) and DT Competition spokes. All black with red nipples.


That's exactly what I went with. You'll love em!


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

Question. Would it be reasonable to think that the AM rims built up with DT Revo spokes would be as 'stiff', for lack of a better word, as my Stan's Arch-Dt Comp build? Could it be so???


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## firminite309 (Nov 2, 2011)

Hi
Very good and nice spelling in the article that may reach every one reading. Better if with the levels may be a statistical images. All the way very good .
Regards,


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

rockinrod42 said:


> Question. Would it be reasonable to think that the AM rims built up with DT Revo spokes would be as 'stiff', for lack of a better word, as my Stan's Arch-Dt Comp build? Could it be so???


Just as an example....

The Roval 29"er Carbon wheels from Specialized come in two versions. The lighter with a less beefy front hub comes with Revo/Aerolites (Control SL). The beefier front hub AM version comes with SuperComps (Control Trail SL). Both use the same rims. The "beefier" wheel due to the front hub and the SuperComps I own are very stiff. Much stiffer than my I9 Flow Enduro wheels. I would imagine the carbon AM rims will be much stiffer than your Arch/Comp wheels - even with the lighter spokes.

In terms of spoke choice and weights, this link will give you an idea for 64 spokes and what they weigh (at least the DT Swiss). Add a bit more grams as the length needed for the big hoops will be longer than what is used for the weight quote on that link (264mm length spokes).


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*What weight did you end up with?*



bquinn said:


> That's exactly what I went with. You'll love em!


I am considering a similar build.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

Finally got my replacement rim and built it up the other night. It took a few weeks to get the rim because I told Nancy that I wanted one under 400g so it took them awhile to make one with my requirements (28H <400g). Keeping in contact with Nancy the lowest one they had last week was 403g so I told them to ship it. I have a 12hr race Saturday so I was cutting it close. So overall weight is Front 627g and the rear is 713g for a total of 1340g. I’ve been running the rear for a few weeks and went for a shakedown ride last night with the front. They are feeling great. I hate flexi rims and so far I’m real happy. We’ll see this summer, have a few 12hr and 24hr races planned.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

For all those running Bonty strips, do you have yellow tape underneath as well? Is the yellow tape mandatory?


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## Super66 (Mar 20, 2012)

DFYFZX said:


> I am but only because it was already there. The Trek store guy that sold them to me insisted and reiterated that I didn't need it and actually wanted to pull it off but I stopped him just in case the strips didn't fit right. I'm 99% positive you don't need any tape. The strips fit like a glove and I don't see any way sealant would find it's way out.


What size Bonty strip do you use for the wider rim?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

macming said:


> For all those running Bonty strips, do you have yellow tape underneath as well? Is the yellow tape mandatory?


I am but only because it was already there. The Trek store guy that sold them to me insisted and reiterated that I didn't need it and actually wanted to pull it off but I stopped him just in case the strips didn't fit right. I'm 99% positive you don't need any tape. The strips fit like a glove and I don't see any way sealant would find it's way out.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> I am but only because it was already there. The Trek store guy that sold them to me insisted and reiterated that I didn't need it and actually wanted to pull it off but I stopped him just in case the strips didn't fit right. I'm 99% positive you don't need any tape. The strips fit like a glove and I don't see any way sealant would find it's way out.


Thanks for the heads up! I'm going to try it out today and see what happens :thumbsup:


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## Jimmy V (Nov 7, 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by macming 
For all those running Bonty strips, do you have yellow tape underneath as well? Is the yellow tape mandatory?
You do not need the tape. 
The strips work great.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Got my wheels back yesterday. Wide rims for fat kids laced to CK hubs with supercomps. Heavy-ish but they feel bulletproof. That was the goal. Waiting on rimstrips to come in before I ride them.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

lotta success stories


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## jacksonj51 (Mar 30, 2012)

*15mm thru*

Whew, just finished reading through these 39 pages and love what I've read. Long time lurker so I think I need to start posting. Few questions... sorry

Just got my new ride (giant anthem X 29er 0) love the bike but hate the heavy wheels, I was so close to getting the new ZTR Arch EX wheelset but for the same price I wanna pull the trigger on these instead.

Thought about building these with some DT swiss 240s, supercomp, etc... but instead I'm just gonna get their complete wheelset with the Novatec D881/882.. I believe someone mentioned that those particular hubs can be easily converted to the 15mm thru-axle correct? Or is it possible to have them(light-bicycles) set them up with 15mm thru-axle hubs?

Also not to sure on what size the rear hub is or if it will fit my bike from them... anyhow I'll just keep reading/learning from this great thread


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

jacksonj51 said:


> Whew, just finished reading through these 39 pages and love what I've read. Long time lurker so I think I need to start posting. Few questions... sorry
> 
> Just got my new ride (giant anthem X 29er 0) love the bike but hate the heavy wheels, I was so close to getting the new ZTR Arch EX wheelset but for the same price I wanna pull the trigger on these instead.
> 
> ...


I e-mailed light-bicycle about the Novatec D881/882 hubs and they said they have the 15mm TA front hub in stock so if that's what you need, you are in luck.
Even though the hub can be converted easily I haven't been able to find any place in the US that sells the different parts needed for the conversion.
Supposedly Superstar Components Switch EVO hubs are rebranded Novatec D881/882 hubs. Superstar sells the different parts needed for the conversion(and they also sell spare freehubs and other hub parts) but they don't sell to the US.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

I tries to set up the wide rims with yellow tape and I'm having a hard time getting the valve to seal. It's a Stan's valve. The tire blew up fine but it's leaking at the base of the valve.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

hillharman said:


> I tries to set up the wide rims with yellow tape and I'm having a hard time getting the valve to seal. It's a Stan's valve. The tire blew up fine but it's leaking at the base of the valve.


hit it with a dab of moldbuilder latex or even silicone caulk.
i use the latex on every tubeless set-up i do just to preclude any issues.
:thumbsup:


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> hit it with a dab of moldbuilder latex or even silicone caulk.
> i use the latex on every tubeless set-up i do just to preclude any issues.
> :thumbsup:


Thanks for the tip. I wasn't super happy with the bead security, so I'm going to wait on the rim strip. Will be doing this on my Arch wheels though.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

hillharman said:


> Thanks for the tip. I wasn't super happy with the bead security, so I'm going to wait on the rim strip. Will be doing this on my Arch wheels though.


np

FWIW I also lay a bead of the latex between tire & rim using a needle-less syringe on every tubeless set-up I do now. It makes every set-up floor-pump-first-time-every-time and, while I haven't done controlled testing, I've never burped a tire set up this way, even running ~20 psi under a 205-lb rider on ghetto set-ups in very rocky terrain.

I don't use ghetto tubeless anymore... I have one bike with Bonty TLR rims and one with Stan's, but still use the latex because it's easy and I'm a belt-and-suspenders type of person when it comes to critical equipment.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

*Fear Monger rolls...*



bt said:


> lotta success stories


The "fear monger" raised his curiosity enough to try and thrash a pair of these rims.

I had the AM set built up today with my older American Classic hubs (front hub I can convert back and forth between 9mm QR and 15mm TA) and double butted black spokes with black nipples for the stealth look.

1540g for the set before Rhythm strips and valves are installed.



BB


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

I did a trial tire setup with my AM rims. Stan's yellow tape/valves + Spec Purgatory 2-Bliss and Schwalbe Rocket Ron tubeless ready and they both went on by hand and inflated very easily with a floor pump and a little soapy water. I tried to get them to 'burp' at 24-28psi, by hand rolling, but couldn't.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Heh....*



Napfgeist said:


> My complete "Nancy Racing" wheelset just arrived.
> 
> 28 hole / 30 mm rim
> Front hub Novatec D711SB
> ...


Cheap, light AND strong!

Take that, Keith Bontrager!!

(... and those who just repeat cliches over and over instead of actually thinking for themselves)



BruceBrown said:


> The "fear monger" raised his curiosity enough to try and thrash a pair of these rims.
> 
> I had the AM set built up today with my older American Classic hubs (front hub I can convert back and forth between 9mm QR and 15mm TA) and double butted black spokes with black nipples for the stealth look.
> 
> ...


Those look sweet! Nice!!

I can't wait to get your feedback on them.

Man, y'all are making me totally horny to build a set of these, but I just blew my allowance on another Lefty fork. It's gonna be a while. :madman:


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## asmallsol (Sep 20, 2007)

hogprint said:


> I hear what your saying, but...
> 
> They also indicate that the road rim limit is 130psi. I'm not one of their engineers so I have no idea what they are basing those limits upon. In my case I'm running a 40mm tire, using them on road/gravel and bought the overbuilt model specifically for enhanced durability. Since the 65/130 psi relationship appears arbitrarily based on a roughly 1" tire vs a roughly 2" tire I feel quite safe running 5-15psi over their recommendation with a 40mm tire.


It all relates to the hoop stress that is generated by the internal pressure. As the internal diameter increases, so does the stress level.

Stress = (Internal diameter *pressure)/2* wall thickness. You can assume that the wheel is the most critical component in the system, so the only thing that changes is the pressure and internal diameter created by the tire. If there is a known max pressure for a certain tire size, you can use this info to figure out what the max tire pressure for a given tire size.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Cheap, light AND strong!
> 
> Take that, Keith Bontrager!!
> 
> ...


Took them out for a test spin today (65 minute power fest on the HT). I used the Bontrager Rhythm strips and I'm not so sure they are needed. It was such a tight fit I had to use a tire iron to get my Nobby Nics on and didn't need an air compressor hose to air up. The floor pump was all I needed. Very secure bead with the Bonty strip. I probably could have just done yellow tape and valves, but they're secure now.



It cut 300g of weight from the set it replaced (King/Sapim/Blunts), so a bit more get up and go. Like my Rovals, these wheels with the light-bicycle rims are nice and firm in the corners as well as during out of saddle climbing and sprinting.:thumbsup:



BB


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

just received my third set today and they are blemish free.


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## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

Very close to buying a set of these rims, after speaking to Nancy reguarding the complete wheels but she said the hubs I required aren't available, so I might be buying the rims and having them laced onto something else.

What hole count would you guys suggest for the light-bicycle 29" rim used as race day or road wheels?


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## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

i wanted the novatec 881/882 also, but i need the 20mm front and would love to have the 10mm thru on the rear. they don't have it and don't know when they will. the novatecs look a bit like the transition hubs... anyone know if they may be the same thing? transition has all the conversion kits and will sell to me unlike superstar


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Not 100% sure but the transition hubs look alot like rebranded novatec hubs. No 20mm adapters in stock though


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

I put some spring miles (+300) on my rear powertap/AM rim on competition spokes last month. Most of them on road with a 23mm tire( on a 30mm wide rim!!! SO scary!!!). At a preventive 60-70 psi, I did a pinch flat on a sharp rock. Nothing on the rim. I ran into a big long crack 1" wide, did some scuffs on side but none was problematic. I did one run on very easy stuff mtb on Ikons exo tire (was easy at tubless set-up) but with somes stairs. Damn, this wheel is so stiff! I used to have a full suspension 26" 120mm bike, it's so different on a 29er HT with stiff wheels.

I recommend these really stiff rims for suspended bikes. For hardtails, it will be rought on your butt!!!! My 5th rims is on the order sheet in china... I can't complain about the relative quality of these rims. This is really bang for the buck!


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

theHIP said:


> transition has all the conversion kits and will sell to me unlike superstar


Not sure if it's the_ exact_ same model as the Novatechs but Transition hubs are indeed Joytech units like Superstar sell (Novatech being Joytech's retail brand).

TBC's pricing looks ok and they always treat customers well (Superstar can be a bit... short with people), seems like a good deal to me.


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## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

Superstar has a sale on theirs right now! I need to find someone in UK that will forward a package to me...

i contacted the transition guys to ask about hub weights and they didn't know and didn't seem interested in finding out either. i know its a small deal to some, and they aren't weight weenies, but i would like to know...

don't want to go with the carbon rims and lose the advantage with hevy hubs - some of the other novatecs are well over 400 for the rear



Fix the Spade said:


> Not sure if it's the_ exact_ same model as the Novatechs but Transition hubs are indeed Joytech units like Superstar sell (Novatech being Joytech's retail brand).
> 
> TBC's pricing looks ok and they always treat customers well (Superstar can be a bit... short with people), seems like a good deal to me.


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

I finally got a chance to see mine. I ordered them on Feb 20th and had them shipped directly to Industry 9 (I9). I9 shipped them to the dealer doing my build that is a few hours from my house so I was unable to see them. I was a bit nervous as they came the same time that most of the complaints about bad beads were coming in. I9 said they built up great and that they looked and built up just like the Rovals.

I picked up my bike yesterday and put just over 25 fast race pace miles on them (with tubes). I have ridden many wheels and these are very stiff and very light. The best MTB wheels I have ever riden. I have never riden any other carbon wheels on a MTB bike but do ride Enve tubulars on my road bike.

I came home and set them up tubeless with stans yellow tape and a bontrager valve stem. This was by far the easiest tubeless setup I have ever done and I have done many. They pumped right up as if they had a tube and that was with a floor pump. I then rode them 5 miles this morning through very rooty climbs and fast rooty descents. I never had any burps and the tire pressure is still set at 18 and 20, no lost pressure. I only rode 5 miles today because some darn stick jumped up and ripped my rear dérailleur off. Luckily the only damage was the bolt that holds it on broke.

bottom line if you get a good set and I believe most are good these wheels are amazing right up there with my Enve's.

A few shots


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## Bascule (Feb 6, 2011)

jacksonj51 said:


> Whew, just finished reading through these 39 pages and love what I've read. Long time lurker so I think I need to start posting. Few questions... sorry
> 
> Just got my new ride (giant anthem X 29er 0) love the bike but hate the heavy wheels, I was so close to getting the new ZTR Arch EX wheelset but for the same price I wanna pull the trigger on these instead.
> 
> ...


Hi there: I've got the same bike, thinking the same thing about the complete wheelset. FYI - Anthem X 29, X0 - uses a 15mm QR on the front, 10mm QR at the rear.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

Mine's a 26" rim (wide) but as this is the main thread that deals with these rims, I thought I'd post here.

My rim is UD matte, chosen specifically so that it would be easier to do visual checks for damage. Overall it looks pretty good with the exception of three areas around the bead which have clearly been filed down. I rather doubt this would have made it past QC for any of the big name manufacturers, but I'm going to get it built up anyway and see how it goes.

Edit: Weight for a 26" is 375g.


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## 2000army (Jun 25, 2007)

are any of these rims good for someone who is 245lbs riding weight?


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

2000army said:


> are any of these rims good for someone who is 245lbs riding weight?


Peoples' riding weights are discussed in the thread. Suggest you have a look.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

2000army said:


> are any of these rims good for someone who is 245lbs riding weight?


Get them to make you a set of 430g rims. Nancy indicated a 110kg limit on those. While I'm not that weight I'm using these on a bike I load up for touring. Beefy.


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

First test for mine this weekend

My set up: AM wide 29er rims Lefty front, sapim lasers, Rear DT swiss 240, sapim lasers on the non drive side, DT race on the drive side. 

Weight with one layer of stans tape was 1530.

I mounted them up first with a set of Ikon and they popped and sealed up with zero issues, every bit as easy as my Arches. Mounted them up on my 29er scalpel 2. Compared to to the stock arches/dirty flea rear hub/ignitors/R1 160 rotors....this set up with ikons/ashima 160 rotors dropped 1.7lbs off the bike. 

First ride was at a local park that is generally very rocky, technical and full of steep climbs. Absolutely no issues. Took the road over to the park and instantly noticed the difference in acceleration. Bike just flies now. Once on the trail, I also noticed how stiff the wheels are. The ride was certainly more jarring over the busted rocky fire roads I was riding. But the turning, acceleration and climbing more than make up for this. Followed up this ride with another 20miles yesterday at a less technical, more flat and flowing park yesterday. Lot of banked turns. Bike feels more planted than ever in the turns now with no flex coming from the front wheel. After 40miles they are still in fine shape, no issue. Ran my ikons at 25ish psi, im 180lbs, and no issues with bumping even though some pretty solid rock gardens. So far, im super happy.


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

2000army: I would not rock carbon rims at 245lbs. First, you should be rocking 36H with heavy duty rims, and these rims do not come drilled in 36H. Heavy dudes need heavy equipment, nothing personal. I think I'm overweight for the 32h rims from "Bikeempowerment" that I'm currently riding on at 200-210lbs. Bikeempowerment rates their 32H Chris King/Carbon 29er wheelsets at 190lbs weight limit.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

You can get them drilled for 36h, I would contact light-bicycle about your weight as they will custom beef them up accordingly 
Bikeempowerment is just rebranded light-bicycle rims marked up from what I remember reading


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## rwagoner (Nov 4, 2011)

I hope this is appropriate to post here (Mod feel free to delete if not). I have a brand new set of light-bicycle 29er xc rims. I'm unable to post a classifieds link due to post count. If interested you can find the add under 29er bikes titled carbon 29er project. PM if interested..price includes shipping.


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## Nater (Jan 6, 2004)

rwagoner said:


> I hope this is appropriate to post here (Mod feel free to delete if not). I have a brand new set of light-bicycle 29er xc rims. I'm unable to post a classifieds link due to post count. If interested you can find the add under 29er bikes titled carbon 29er project. PM if interested..price includes shipping.


Here's your ad...

Carbon 29er project - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## rwagoner (Nov 4, 2011)

Nater - Thanks man

The rims are the XC version UD matte. Any takers?


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## j.modig (Apr 14, 2012)

How long is the shipping taking for those of you who purchased these wheels?


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

For me. Bike Empowerment. Met him at a coffee shop. Total time for me. 1 day!


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Had anyone mounted Geax TNT tires on the wider rims? How'd the go on?


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

rwagoner said:


> Nater - Thanks man
> 
> The rims are the XC version UD matte. Any takers?


Sent you a pm...


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

My rims shipped 4/12 last Thursday and arrived 4/16 In Indiana. That's pretty dang fast to me.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

> 2000army: I would not rock carbon rims at 245lbs.


Respectfully disagree. I've was rockin on my ENVE/240s/AM wheelset for over 3 years at 225-245lbs. Sold them and bought the tubeless version.


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## dblspeed (Jan 31, 2006)

Quite interesting stuff going on.

I wonder if these rims would be too much for a carbon hardtail. 

Would the narrower rim version in a lower spoke count be less stiff and better suited for a carbon hardtail and or a lighter rider or would they be just weaker?


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## ShralpSauce (Mar 22, 2012)

Somewhat OT but had a quick question about using some extra spokes I had for a build. This would be my first build so I'm not super familiar with spoke length specification. 

I was planning on building Hopes on Stans Crests and I know the ERD of the Crests is 605. Where as the light-bicycle rim has an ERD of 603. Will I be able to use the same spokes?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

ShralpSauce said:


> Somewhat OT but had a quick question about using some extra spokes I had for a build. This would be my first build so I'm not super familiar with spoke length specification.
> 
> I was planning on building Hopes on Stans Crests and I know the ERD of the Crests is 605. Where as the light-bicycle rim has an ERD of 603. Will I be able to use the same spokes?


IMO, no. Find a shop that has a spoke trimming/threading machine and have them trimmed. The problem is that the nipple will bottom out on the shank of the spoke which causes extra friction and makes the nipple really hard to turn. This happens when the spoke is somewhere around 1.5-2mm too long.

I actually had this problem on the driveside spokes of my rear wheel built with the light-bicycle AM rim. I made it work (with aluminum nipples) and since have 25hrs on the wheel without any true-tension issues, but I wouldn't do it again.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Worth a try*



ShralpSauce said:


> Somewhat OT but had a quick question about using some extra spokes I had for a build. This would be my first build so I'm not super familiar with spoke length specification.
> 
> I was planning on building Hopes on Stans Crests and I know the ERD of the Crests is 605. Where as the light-bicycle rim has an ERD of 603. Will I be able to use the same spokes?


If it's just your time you're wasting, I say go for it. You can also try getting some washers under the nipples inside the rim, but that is a hack at best.

I say try it without the washers, see what you get, worst case you take it apart and spend money on the right spokes.

Yeah, it's hard to get spokes trimmed and roll on new threads if you're only talking two or three mm's. You really should not roll spokes onto spoke that already has threads on it. Heck, it would probably cost you more to pay the shop to trim them than to just get new spokes.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

I just built up my rear wheel, I am about 1mm out of true radially and laterally so I have to smooth that out. I do not feel it is too bad for my first effort. My question is I am not quite sure what tension to use. I have read through the thread and it looks like most people are around 120 kgf. I am a bigger guy, so is this an acceptable target for me using Sapim lasers? According to my park chart that should be 18 on the scale and that's where I am at now. Thanks for your guys help.

The wheel is not tensioned in this photo for you sharp eyed folks


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Just took my first pavement spin on my new wheels. 32H UD matte wide AM rims beefed up for heavier riders, CK hubs with DT Comp spokes, alloy nipples, laced up by mikesee. They weigh in around 1800g, but feel extremely solid relative to the cheap hub, Arch combo I had on before. Hans Dampfs blew up with a floor pump and yellow tape, and after sitting on the bike for a while, the bead security is great. I had to take it down to sub 5 psi in order to snap the bead off. I will have the Rhythm strips just in case different tires don't work as well.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Adim_X said:


> I just built up my rear wheel, I am about 1mm out of true radially and laterally so I have to smooth that out. I do not feel it is too bad for my first effort. My question is I am not quite sure what tension to use. I have read through the thread and it looks like most people are around 120 kgf. I am a bigger guy, so is this an acceptable target for me using Sapim lasers? According to my park chart that should be 18 on the scale and that's where I am at now. Thanks for your guys help.
> 
> The wheel is not tensioned in this photo for you sharp eyed folks


Hey how do you like that Truing stand? I'm going to attempt my first wheel build and build up the 26 inch version of these wheels. Was thinking about picking up either the minoura stand you are using or the feedback sports stand.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Adim_X said:


> I just built up my rear wheel, I am about 1mm out of true radially and laterally so I have to smooth that out. I do not feel it is too bad for my first effort. My question is I am not quite sure what tension to use. I have read through the thread and it looks like most people are around 120 kgf. I am a bigger guy, so is this an acceptable target for me using Sapim lasers? According to my park chart that should be 18 on the scale and that's where I am at now. Thanks for your guys help.
> 
> The wheel is not tensioned in this photo for you sharp eyed folks


Make sure you get it round before you do your final tru. It needs to be round 1st, then tru. A little hop in the round is o.k, but not big ones. Try and get it close. Also, pre stress the wheel often. Either grab 2 parallel spokes and squeeze, all the way around the wheel. Or take the wheel out and flex the rim. Google it to see how it's done. I can't really explain it in writing.

Also, on the rear, I believe the drive side should have a higher tension than the non-drive side. It should work itself out that way when trued.

Looks good, good luck


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

How or where do I figure out what length spokes I need? I will be using Roval hubs off my Roval el wheelset.


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## mattgVT (Nov 9, 2010)

Triaxtremec said:


> How or where do I figure out what length spokes I need? I will be using Roval hubs off my Roval el wheelset.


Go to the DT Swiss Spoke Calculator site. I think this one is a bit more accurate - I checked on several I found online and this one gave me better measurements for my wheels using the same dimensions. I found wheelbuilder's site gave me slightly longer measurements for both the drive and nondrive sides of for the front wheel for some reason. You'll need to know some measurements about your hub usually in mm, like spoke hole circle diameter (the circle would be if you were to draw one through the centers of all spoke holes around each respective side of the hub), the distance between the center of the hub to flange for driveside and nondrive side, the axle OLD (for the common QR rear it would be 135, front QR/15mm 100, 20mm 110), spoke hole diameter, and the effective rim diameter (ERD). And you'll want to know the spoke pattern you want, as that will affect the length of spokes too. I think that's most of it.


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

I will probably order some of the rims from light-bicycle.com. I'm about 210-220 with gear I'm looking at the Wider carbon mountain clincher (tubeless compatible) 36 hole UST 29er rim. I want to make sure not making any mistakes. First, can I ride these at this weight. I will lace these to 36 hole Haleys front and rear. The website lets you pick between 12 k, 3 k, UD carbon. Which ones should I get? My style of riding is fast and bombing. I will use DT swiss double butted and 12mm alloy DT nips. Should I even get these at my wieght?

carbon mountain bike rim | - light-bicycle carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible)


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Crclawn: don't hesitate! These rims are stout for sure. 
The finish is personal preference.


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

Bquinn, sorry to sound like a newb, first time w carbon rim. Just so I undrrstand, the 12, 3 and ud is the finish and they r all the same strength. Just real hard on rims. I had to go flows. I m thinking those carbon s laced to Hadley r going to be unreal.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

12k, 3k, and UD are only the outer layer of CF chosen, essentially decorative, they are all the same underneath


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

Thanks guys! I gotta try a set.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Triaxtremec said:


> How or where do I figure out what length spokes I need? I will be using Roval hubs off my Roval el wheelset.


This question is not just directed at you, but if somebody is going to take the time to order these carbon rims - which we could debate on whether or not the entry price for a pair is "cheap" or not compared to all 29"er rims in general - why not have a wheel builder who can easily figure out spoke length needed and has done dozens and dozens and dozens of wheel builds before lace them up for you? Sure - it will add a bit to the cost, but you might stand a better chance of getting it done right from the get go.

The reason this question is not just directed at you is it seems a few posts here recently are about people using the rims for their first ever wheel build.

BB (who has never built a wheel)


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Yep this is turning into a "how do i build a wheel", "what hubs should I use", and "what spokes should I use" thread. Very little talk about the actually freakin rims anymore. Whatever.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Is not a question about spoke tension applicable to this particular rim? I am not asking how to tension, but I want to know what tension others are using for THIS rim.

Some of us want to try and build our wheels no matter what the material involved is. Maybe a lot of questions aren't really applicable. Sorry some you guys feel all butthurt about it.

Here is a thread I just started for question in the Wheel Forum. I am sure it is a duplicate, but I looked 5 days out and didn't see anything. I guess we can move any non-performance oriented information to this thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/building-chinese-carbon-29er-wheels-ask-anything-783058.html


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

BruceBrown said:


> This question is not just directed at you, but if somebody is going to take the time to order these carbon rims - which we could debate on whether or not the entry price for a pair is "cheap" or not compared to all 29"er rims in general - why not have a wheel builder who can easily figure out spoke length needed and has done dozens and dozens and dozens of wheel builds before lace them up for you? Sure - it will add a bit to the cost, but you might stand a better chance of getting it done right from the get go.
> 
> The reason this question is not just directed at you is it seems a few posts here recently are about people using the rims for their first ever wheel build.
> 
> BB (who has never built a wheel)


I agree, I have been thinking the same thing thru this thread.


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## Bob12676 (Sep 10, 2008)

BruceBrown said:


> This question is not just directed at you, but if somebody is going to take the time to order these carbon rims - which we could debate on whether or not the entry price for a pair is "cheap" or not compared to all 29"er rims in general - why not have a wheel builder who can easily figure out spoke length needed and has done dozens and dozens and dozens of wheel builds before lace them up for you? Sure - it will add a bit to the cost, but you might stand a better chance of getting it done right from the get go.
> 
> The reason this question is not just directed at you is it seems a few posts here recently are about people using the rims for their first ever wheel build.
> 
> BB (who has never built a wheel)


It's just my opinion, but I think this is a unique opportunity that almost begs for a new wheel builder to take a shot at the art. I'm sure a lot of us, me included, have always wanted to try building a set up, but companies offer such good pre-built products it doesn't make much sense. With these wheels, however, you can get a (debatable) great deal on a solid wheel, but without the hub options offered by other manufacturers. Why not take a shot? All the experienced wheel builders had to start by building their first wheel at one time or another and this looks like a sweet way to get your feat wet. Worst case scenario, you buy the wrong spokes or decide you are in over your head and hire some one to finish the job. If you succeed, well, it's like the ultimate "feather in your cap" kind of bike building skill.

As for the direction the thread has taken, if the wheels beg to be a first time build, this is the direction you would expect the it to take. If you reduced the thread to just pertinent info about the rims it would be 8-10 posts. I think this thread is awesome!


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Adim_X said:


> Is not a question about spoke tension applicable to this particular rim? I am not asking how to tension, but I want to know what tension others are using for THIS rim.


My point in fact:thumbsup:. I missed your valid question because I was skimming through all the bs.

I would still shoot for 120kgf regardless of rider weight.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Adim_X said:


> Is not a question about spoke tension applicable to this particular rim? I am not asking how to tension, but I want to know what tension others are using for THIS rim.
> 
> Some of us want to try and build our wheels no matter what the material involved is. Maybe a lot of questions aren't really applicable. Sorry some you guys feel all butthurt about it.
> 
> ...


i dont think you were the one that caused the comments, thats a pretty valid question here
its the guys that pop on without reading or searching any of the thread, then ask things like how long should my spokes be...if you have to ask a question like that, you should def have a builder or need to go do a lot more studying on wheel building


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

crclawn said:


> Bquinn, sorry to sound like a newb, first time w carbon rim. Just so I undrrstand, the 12, 3 and ud is the finish and they r all the same strength. Just real hard on rims. I had to go flows. I m thinking those carbon s laced to Hadley r going to be unreal.


UD=Unidirectional. Sort of a plain, slightly textured carbon finish

3k and 12k are that classic fabric weave carbon fiber finish. One is tighter than the other. Forgot which is which, but I'm sure if you do a google image search, you can find examples.

This is separate from the matte or gloss finish. That has to do with the final lacquer or epoxy or whatever... finish/sealing layer.

*edit*

Oh, cool. This page has good examples:

Carbon fiber technology for bicycle frame manufacture

If you're looking for sage-like advice about building wheels, go pay Sheldon Brown's (RIP) wheel building page.

Wheelbuilding

I agree, tho... best to keep this thread specific to these carbon rims, and not to wheelbuilding. Refer to the Wheels and Tires forum.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

BruceBrown said:


> why not have a wheel builder who can easily figure out spoke length needed and has done dozens and dozens and dozens of wheel builds before lace them up for you? Sure - it will add a bit to the cost, but you might stand a better chance of getting it done right from the get go.


There are several reasons to do it oneself. Waiting what could be over a week for a wheel to get built sucks. Doing it oneself isn't that hard, it's not some black art that requires years of study and devotion. Learning how to do something new is pretty cool and demystifying something that people on this forum seem to love to prop up as some sort of impossible feat is always good.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Well...*



BruceBrown said:


> This question is not just directed at you, but if somebody is going to take the time to order these carbon rims - which we could debate on whether or not the entry price for a pair is "cheap" or not compared to all 29"er rims in general - why not have a wheel builder who can easily figure out spoke length needed and has done dozens and dozens and dozens of wheel builds before lace them up for you? Sure - it will add a bit to the cost, but you might stand a better chance of getting it done right from the get go.
> 
> The reason this question is not just directed at you is it seems a few posts here recently are about people using the rims for their first ever wheel build.
> 
> BB (who has never built a wheel)


... where's the fun in that? Any knucklehead can plunk down cash on the counter and have their little serfs till the land for them. It's a lot more fun to get your hands dirty and learn how the stuff actually works on your own.

The key is just to do everything slowly and methodically. Measure everything super carefully in two different ways to be sure you get the same answer twice, go slow, be prepared to make mistakes and don't be afraid to start over and do it right.

- PB, who built 12 wheels for himself.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

BruceBrown said:


> This question is not just directed at you, but if somebody is going to take the time to order these carbon rims - which we could debate on whether or not the entry price for a pair is "cheap" or not compared to all 29"er rims in general - why not have a wheel builder who can easily figure out spoke length needed and has done dozens and dozens and dozens of wheel builds before lace them up for you? Sure - it will add a bit to the cost, but you might stand a better chance of getting it done right from the get go.
> 
> The reason this question is not just directed at you is it seems a few posts here recently are about people using the rims for their first ever wheel build.
> 
> BB (who has never built a wheel)


I plan on having a someone else who knows what they are doing build them. I just can't get a hold of him lately so I was hoping to get everything in order so when the time comes I can just drop it all off and let him do his thing.


----------



## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

delete


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

can someone start a wheel building thread somewhere.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

I started one in the wheel forum. I linked it above.

Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Le Duke said:


> Ah. The "XC" rims definitely do not appear to have a "UST" profile.
> 
> The "AM" rims do, though.
> 
> Hmmm. Decisions, decisions.


The "AM" is closer, but still not close to UST-spec shape. The bottom corners of the bead seat need to be squared off and it lacks the inner bead lock ridge.


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## schnapmaster (Feb 26, 2004)

I recieved 2 of the wider 29" rims in UD gloss. They look great to me. They weighed 406 grams and 396 grams.
I'll be building them to DT 240s hubs (10mm Thru-bolt rear and 20mm Thru-axle front) with DT Swiss Aerolite spokes.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

shiggy said:


> The "AM" is closer, but still not close to UST-spec shape. The bottom corners of the bead seat need to be squared off and it lacks the inner bead lock ridge.


Simply add the Bontrager Rhythm strips and BAM! UST


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

My set now has just shy off 100 miles on them. Perfect, could not be happier with them. One layer of stans tape, 25psi with ikons, 180lbs of me and riding in nothing but rocks thus far....zero issues.


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> I recieved 2 of the wider 29" rims in UD gloss. They look great to me. They weighed 406 grams and 396 grams.
> I'll be building them to DT 240s hubs (10mm Thru-bolt rear and 20mm Thru-axle front) with DT Swiss Aerolite spokes.


snapmaster, can you please post pics when done. I'm on the fence with gloss or matte and the 12/3/UD finish. I'm looking to build with almost the same setup, except Hadleys 10mm bolt and 20mm front.



> My set now has just shy off 100 miles on them. Perfect, could not be happier with them. One layer of stans tape, 25psi with ikons, 180lbs of me and riding in nothing but rocks thus far....zero issues.


utah joe, thanks for that report. I was on the fence with these vs stans flows because I do ride alot of rock gardens. This really helps me want to go with the carbons. Did you order from: light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike. If so can you speak of your experince with them. How long did it take to get rims once you ordered?


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

crclawn said:


> utah joe, thanks for that report. I was on the fence with these vs stans flows because I do ride alot of rock gardens. This really helps me want to go with the carbons. Did you order from: light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike. If so can you speak of your experince with them. How long did it take to get rims once you ordered?


Yes, from nancy. When I ordered mine at the end of feb. they were on back order, so they took about 3-4weeks to get to me. I emailed nancy several times during this time and she always got right back to me. Pretty happy with the experience

Mine will be a race only wheelset for both my scalpel and my single speed, so I dont plan on using them everyday, but so far so good.


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> Yes, from nancy. When I ordered mine at the end of feb. they were on back order, so they took about 3-4weeks to get to me. I emailed nancy several times during this time and she always got right back to me. Pretty happy with the experience
> 
> Mine will be a race only wheelset for both my scalpel and my single speed, so I dont plan on using them everyday, but so far so good.


Thanks man, I'm really wanting a pair. Not to hijack this tread, but I'm really wanting a Scaple next year. Right now I'm riding a Special ED FSR 29 with 4" travel. I really like it, very plush. But I'm looking for something a little more zippy. I'm really thinking about the Scaple Composite 2. My build would be:

The Carbon rims with Hadley and Project 321 front hub.
XO rear deraillure and X0 shifts.

How are you liking the Scaple?

Not that I race, but I have several bikes and these might get ridden once or twice a week if that. What hubs did you lace them too. If not too much trouble, can you post pics when you get a chance?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Just ordered a set. 
Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) - light-bicycle

Building with AM Classic 350 hubs converted to 10mm thru bolt. Not sure on spokes yet. Not sure on frame yet. Might go Spearfish 1, but might build a rigid gravel grinder with an FM056 or both and just swap the wheels back and forth.

Edit - Can't share wheels with the above builds, need the Spearfish 2 frame...


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

To the spineless cheap shot, thanks for the negative rep. I guess starting a requested thread is being a f***ng D bag in your opinion. 

My wheels are coming together well. I will give a ride report as soon as my other Chinese import project shows up, slow custom paint process. 

Build:
12k Gloss, with extra material for Clydes
Sapim Lasers and Sapim Nips
Hope SS and QR Hubs


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## girlscantell (Oct 19, 2008)

*My experience...*

I ordered the 3k finish AM 29er rims at the end of February. They would have shipped mid-March but I did the logo thing ("Made in China" in Mandarin). They had someone design the logo and then someone else make it. That took a week. I ended up receiving the rims on April 3rd, I believe. So, here they are: My "Made in China" rims, DT Revos, DT 240's. BTW, that's Cafe Latex all over the tires. Tires seated great with Rhythm strips, but the sidewalls leaked. That's a whole other forum.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

girlscantell said:


> I ordered the 3k finish AM 29er rims at the end of February. They would have shipped mid-March but I did the logo thing ("Made in China" in Mandarin). They had someone design the logo and then someone else make it. That took a week. I ended up receiving the rims on April 3rd, I believe. So, here they are: My "Made in China" rims, DT Revos, DT 240's. BTW, that's Cafe Latex all over the tires. Tires seated great with Rhythm strips, but the sidewalls leaked. That's a whole other forum.


I love it! "Made it Chine" on a $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ US made frame, post and stem. Love the red accents.
How much were the custom graphics?


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## girlscantell (Oct 19, 2008)

Graphics were $51. Go China.


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## cchough (Apr 26, 2006)

Are any of you planning on using your Carbon 29er wheels for a Monster Cross style bike? I'm thinking about running some wider (38-42) tires on my cyclocross bike and the "normal" 29er rims from Light-Bicycle seem like they would work well. Are the too wide? Should I stick with the road clinchers?

Thanks!


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I'm running the beefy version on my Vaya Ti. Pretty much a monstercross type build. There is a lightweight Vaya thread in the salsa forum with pics. Currently running 40's on the wide 29er rim. I have a set of 28's I plan on running for the summer if they fit.


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## Ferrozone (Feb 8, 2012)

girlscantell said:


> I ordered the 3k finish AM 29er rims at the end of February. They would have shipped mid-March but I did the logo thing ("Made in China" in Mandarin). They had someone design the logo and then someone else make it. That took a week. I ended up receiving the rims on April 3rd, I believe. So, here they are: My "Made in China" rims, DT Revos, DT 240's. BTW, that's Cafe Latex all over the tires. Tires seated great with Rhythm strips, but the sidewalls leaked. That's a whole other forum.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Like the 3k nude carbon finish very nice setup with the dt revultion spokes and 240sl hubs, thinking to make the same setup...


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## girlscantell (Oct 19, 2008)

I'll post a ride report as soon as I get these tires to seal up.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

girlscantell

I'm really sorry to be the one to have to tell you this, but that Chinese writing actually says "One day soon we will take over your country and make you our slaves".

Try not worry, I'm sure most people won't know. Just try not to stop for too long when you're riding near other people, especially if they look Chinese.

I wonder if that's grounds for a warranty claim?


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## Napfgeist (Jan 4, 2004)

Last weekend testride with the "Nancy-Racing" Carbon wheels.






They are just awesome.


----------



## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Napfgeist said:


> Last weekend testride with the "Nancy-Racing" Carbon wheels.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow! No exploding wheels, whaddayaknow :thumbsup:

Just finished the build of my front wheel with the AM rims, up for a testride in a few days but judging from the build they seem awesome.


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## jadedbee (Sep 11, 2005)

Which outer layer and/or finish do you think would have less de-lamination issues from rock scratches and gouges? I get lots of scratches through the anodizing finish on my aluminum rims from rock garden carnage. Would the tighter weave keep any tears in the fiber from spreading? Or are the smaller fibers more likely to be severed all the way through? I'm also thinking the gloss would add another layer of protection from scratch damage.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

the cf resins will be harder than any glossy/matte finish, wont affect the durability of the rim...cosmetically, one might show more scratches than the other though
as for outer weave, some frame manufacturers say a 3K weaved outer layer has a bit of an advantage over UD, but I wouldnt expect any sort of durability aid in these rims really
you are better off getting the finish and outer layer you think looks best, and not over thinking it


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## BroSole (Apr 7, 2012)

figo said:


> Wow! No exploding wheels, whaddayaknow :thumbsup:
> 
> Just finished the build of my front wheel with the AM rims, up for a testride in a few days but judging from the build they seem awesome.


Bro-your bars are upside down.


----------



## Napfgeist (Jan 4, 2004)

BroSole said:


> Bro-your bars are upside down.


No - thats a Salsa Pro Moto Flat bar 17° bend.


----------



## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

Got my am rims laced up to American classic hubs w ceramic bearings. Spokes were DT revolution. Used one layer of Stan's tape and mounted specialized fast trak 2.2 tires with no sealant and a floor pump very easily. I let them sit over night to allow the tape to set. They were both very low on air the next am. I then added Stan's and they seated very easily again. T I have a pair of roval control sl carbon wheels as well. I have to say that in my two rides on these new wheels I much prefer them to my rovals. I don't notice a difference in stiffness, but the new wheels are much smoother and I love the wider contact patch with the wider rims. I ran my pressure at 21 in the back and 20 up front with no issues. I think the smoothness is likely from the ceramic bearings. I actually think I may sell my rovals and build up another set of these if they withstand the test of time.


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

Adroit Rider said:


> Just ordered a set.
> Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) - light-bicycle
> 
> Building with AM Classic 350 hubs converted to 10mm thru bolt. Not sure on spokes yet. Not sure on frame yet. Might go Spearfish 1, but might build a rigid gravel grinder with an FM056 or both and just swap the wheels back and forth.
> ...


Kind of curious how this would hold up for 2 to 3x a week riding of trails under a 240 pound clydesdale? If it'll work, I may just build up a set.


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

Received my set of 12k, matte finish heavier roving built wheels yesterday. The red Novatec 881/882 15mm/142*12 hubs look really nice although I wish I could take the tasteful brand stickers off them just because that's how I roll. I wouldn't claim I"m a wheel expert, but the rim finish is excellent inside and out and the wheels are straight and true and overall look great. I like the 12k finish but as others have mentioned its pretty subtle, you can barely see it once there is a layer of dirt. 

Only complaint was I ordered them March 5th and only received them yesterday. This was most likely due to ordering the rarer 12k finish as well as a wait on the hub - Nancy indicated they had a manufacturing problem with the hub axles. So lead time could be a consideration for you. I mocked up the wheels in my Stumpjumper/Fox and everything fit fine. 

Total cost delivered was $613 as the 881 hubs are a little more expensive than the other option.

Last year the idea of a carbon wheelset seemed like a fantasy, and now with the Rovals that came with my SJ and these I have two carbon wheelsets. I AM THE 1% !!!


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Preston said:


> Last year the idea of a carbon wheelset seemed like a fantasy, and now with the Rovals that came with my SJ and these I have two carbon wheelsets. I AM THE 1% !!!


lmao

take some pics if you can of the hubs since i dont think anyones gotten them yet, and 12K weave as most are the 3K


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> Got my am rims laced up to American classic hubs w ceramic bearings. Spokes were DT revolution. Used one layer of Stan's tape and mounted specialized fast trak 2.2 tires with no sealant and a floor pump very easily. I let them sit over night to allow the tape to set. They were both very low on air the next am. I then added Stan's and they seated very easily again. T I have a pair of roval control sl carbon wheels as well. I have to say that in my two rides on these new wheels I much prefer them to my rovals. I don't notice a difference in stiffness, but the new wheels are much smoother and I love the wider contact patch with the wider rims. I ran my pressure at 21 in the back and 20 up front with no issues. I think the smoothness is likely from the ceramic bearings. I actually think I may sell my rovals and build up another set of these if they withstand the test of time


.

Thanks for that report. I recently went over to Stans Flows and def like the wider rim too. I def going to get the wider carbon rim in 29 and build up to some Hadleys. What is the POE on the american classic hubs? Also, where your Fastrak 2.2 2bliss?


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Preston said:


> Received my set of 12k, matte finish heavier roving built wheels yesterday. The red Novatec 881/882 15mm/142*12 hubs look really nice although I wish I could take the tasteful brand stickers off them just because that's how I roll. I wouldn't claim I"m a wheel expert, but the rim finish is excellent inside and out and the wheels are straight and true and overall look great. I like the 12k finish but as others have mentioned its pretty subtle, you can barely see it once there is a layer of dirt.
> 
> Only complaint was I ordered them March 5th and only received them yesterday. This was most likely due to ordering the rarer 12k finish as well as a wait on the hub - Nancy indicated they had a manufacturing problem with the hub axles. So lead time could be a consideration for you. I mocked up the wheels in my Stumpjumper/Fox and everything fit fine.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the update! These will definitely be my next set of wheels...


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## nmanchin (Oct 30, 2009)

Does anyone know the rim width for the "light-bicycle" tubular road wheels? Thinking about building up a set for CX season.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

ask light bicycle


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

clewttu said:


> ask light bicycle


exactly


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> Sweet! I won a set of brakes in a raffle, and I think I can flip them for the amount of some of these rims.
> 
> Car-boners, here I come!!
> 
> These AM rims are going to be awesome on my trailbike.


nice!
i couldn't help myself and ordered a set for the Raijin today.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Sweet! I won a set of brakes in a raffle, and I think I can flip them for the amount of some of these rims. 

Car-boners, here I come!!

These AM rims are going to be awesome on my trailbike.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

pimpbot said:


> Sweet! I won a set of brakes in a raffle, and I think I can flip them for the amount of some of these rims.
> 
> Car-boners, here I come!!
> 
> These AM rims are going to be awesome on my trailbike.


PM me details on those brakes:thumbsup: My buddy is looking for a set of new brakes.


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

crclawn said:


> .
> 
> Thanks for that report. I recently went over to Stans Flows and def like the wider rim too. I def going to get the wider carbon rim in 29 and build up to some Hadleys. What is the POE on the american classic hubs? Also, where your Fastrak 2.2 2bliss?


Not sure what you mean by POE? The tires are sworks 2bliss.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

tonloc08 said:


> Not sure what you mean by POE? The tires are sworks 2bliss.


POE= Points Of Engagement


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

GSJ1973 said:


> POE= Points Of Engagement


24 I believe. Rovals are 32 if I remember correctly.


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## cha_cha_ (Mar 25, 2008)

nmanchin said:


> Does anyone know the rim width for the "light-bicycle" tubular road wheels? Thinking about building up a set for CX season.


O/T: i did ask about wider road tubulars when i spoke to light-bicycle last week and was told no on the wider road tubulars.

Yishun and Farsport however are both doing 23mm wide tubulars.

personally, i was interested in running wider road tubbies for aero and comfort reasons, but by the looks of it the 23mm wide tubbies are being sold as cyclocross rims so i'm doubtful about their ability to meet my desired aims. haven't done any weight comparisons.

based on the level of customer service shown by LB in this thread, i'd be happier buying narrower rims from LB than by trying my hand at wider rims from one of the other suppliers. next wheels will be track wheels though so leading edge aero is king...


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> 24 I believe. Rovals are 32 if I remember correctly


.

Thanks


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

Rovals are 36

Sj


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## nmanchin (Oct 30, 2009)

bt said:


> exactly


I did. No answer...


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## nmanchin (Oct 30, 2009)

cha_cha_ said:


> O/T: i did ask about wider road tubulars when i spoke to light-bicycle last week and was told no on the wider road tubulars.
> 
> Yishun and Farsport however are both doing 23mm wide tubulars.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you knew exactly what I was going after. I think I will just build up some major toms this year.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Jumped in too.. (Advice!?)*

Ordered up 3 Nancy-Wide hoops..

1. Am Classic hubs
2. Light Bike hoops
3. Alloy nippies

4. Torn between the following (150 lb Cat1 fwiw..) Dt Revs/Dt Aerolites/CX rays...

5. Also torn between 3 cross lace in rear vs 2 cross lace in rear

Also, thx to MF for some advice yesterday...:thumbsup:

Anyone have ideas/thoughts about #4 and #5?????????

thx

PS..Sorry if I missed anything in the 1000+ posts. I read most of them believe it or not...yikes..


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Preston, please post some pics when you have a chance ......thanks !



Preston said:


> Received my set of 12k, matte finish heavier roving built wheels yesterday. The red Novatec 881/882 15mm/142*12 hubs look really nice although I wish I could take the tasteful brand stickers off them just because that's how I roll. I wouldn't claim I"m a wheel expert, but the rim finish is excellent inside and out and the wheels are straight and true and overall look great. I like the 12k finish but as others have mentioned its pretty subtle, you can barely see it once there is a layer of dirt.
> 
> Only complaint was I ordered them March 5th and only received them yesterday. This was most likely due to ordering the rarer 12k finish as well as a wait on the hub - Nancy indicated they had a manufacturing problem with the hub axles. So lead time could be a consideration for you. I mocked up the wheels in my Stumpjumper/Fox and everything fit fine.
> 
> ...


----------



## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm ready to take the plunge with these rims, but the LB site does not show the 27mm outer width any more (only the 30mm) - what's up? What wheel builder are you using for custom builds with these rims? Does LB build with Am Classic hubs?


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

I finally received my replacement rim (free) for the previous issue on bead section. The new rim is absolutely FLAWLESS!! Better finish inside than all 4 others rims I already have (including the Roval...). I chose the 28h upon the 24h model beacause the 24h rim is already mounted on a cheap 24h rear hub and is probably usable. I asked to LB to build a complete front wheel for me, standard 9mm novatec hub and pillar 1420 (bladed) spokes. The building seems ok but they used similar lenght of spokes for the 2 sides. Normally, there's a little difference beteween the 2 sides but it's sound cheaper to me to use same spoke on 2 sides... I'm not affraid to use these front wheel, it looks so sweet!!!! 707g (Nancy told me they have one 419g rim on hand and ask me if i'm interested to have them build) So I have a heavier rim on 28h build novatec d711. It completely rules!!!!

I said few months ago: I will test the lateral stiffness of some complete wheels, i'll do it but, I'm busy by now... Wait few weeks...  Until my wife gave birth of my 2nd children... I will have the time to do some tests!

Here's a small movie of my after work soft and cool ride!

Bike ride - YouTube


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

I'm not much of a photographer but here is some closeup of the front and rear wheel. you can't even see the rear hub, sorry. I did have a better photo of the wheels but accidentally erased it and I'm very lazy. These things come with some kind of cool looking bladed spokes. We'll see how they last.

Also, I like to say the name of my new tires ---

HANS DAMPF !


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Are these from light bike?


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

I see most people are building their own wheels.

I am in need of a set, and I was thinking on doing the wider rims with the Novatec 881 hubs (for the 15mm axle). Then perhaps rebuilding them this winter with a different set of hubs.

Are the Novatecs decent enough I should be able to get 6 months of racing in on them? Are they just a bit heavy, or unreliable?


----------



## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Preston said:


> I'm not much of a photographer but here is some closeup of the front and rear wheel. you can't even see the rear hub, sorry. I did have a better photo of the wheels but accidentally erased it and I'm very lazy. These things come with some kind of cool looking bladed spokes. We'll see how they last.
> 
> Also, I like to say the name of my new tires ---
> 
> HANS DAMPF !


So you didn't clean your bike before putting on the new wheels ?:nono:....kidding
Thanks for the pics. I checked w/ Nancy and the 12 x 142 hub is 5 weeks out, so I have a bit of a wait


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Might finally take the jump ...*

Have been following this thread closely for sometime. Thought about initially getting just the rims, but that would end up being costly ... around $650 - 750 with shipping costs, spokes, wheel build, and a new front hub.

Contacted the guy who builds wheel, Bike Empowerment, but he seems to add another middle man to the cost scale, so no go.

Read up on the Rotaz hubs that Light Bicycle offers. It seems they are American Classic knock offs. Nancy said they will have more colors in a month. So for $520 plus shipping I feel this might be the way I need to go to really have "cheap chinese carbon" wheels.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

They are appealing: carbon 29er wheel mountain bike clincher - light-bicycle


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

I am 200lb ride a spearfish and would like to get a set of the wider rims. How many spokes would I want for trail use? I read elsewhere that you can get away with less spokes because the carbon is much stiffer. True?


----------



## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

subspd said:


> I am 200lb ride a spearfish and would like to get a set of the wider rims. How many spokes would I want for trail use? I read elsewhere that you can get away with less spokes because the carbon is much stiffer. True?


A while back (page ~15) there was some discussion was had on this, and it was mentioned that by going with 32 spokes would allow some interchangeability between with other rims and hubs, since it is a common count. ie. switching to Stan's for some reason.


----------



## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

> So you didn't clean your bike before putting on the new wheels ?


I don't understand - it is clean !


----------



## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

are most of you doing the matte or glossy finish?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Triaxtremec said:


> are most of you doing the matte or glossy finish?


My light-bicycle.com rims are the matte finish. I've been finding that it scratches easily where rocks and gravel have bounced off the rims. The scratches are only cosmetic but silver in colour and noticeable.

Apparently the gloss finish is more robust and won't scratch as easily.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

WR304 said:


> My light-bicycle.com rims are the matte finish. I've been finding that it scratches easily where rocks and gravel have bounced off the rims. The scratches are only cosmetic but silver in colour and noticeable.
> 
> Apparently the gloss finish is more robust and won't scratch as easily.


I was wondering about which is easier to clean... matte or glossy. I would guess glossy, but figured glossy would show scratches more, too. So... I dunno. I like the matte look, but I would think mud would stick to it more readily.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

subspd said:


> I am 200lb ride a spearfish and would like to get a set of the wider rims. How many spokes would I want for trail use? I read elsewhere that you can get away with less spokes because the carbon is much stiffer. True?


Yes, but why worry about it. I'd say go with the norm 32h 3-cross. You will probably save more grams by using cx-rays than to use less spokes.


----------



## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Sorry for the newb question what are XC rays?


----------



## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

Cx-rays are bladed spokes made by sapim.


----------



## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

subspd said:


> Sorry for the newb question what are XC rays?


Arguably the best spokes money can buy:thumbsup:


----------



## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Does light-bike sell these as an option?


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

dont think so, contact them 
the are about 3 times the cost of revo/comps theough, if that is important to you


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

As a Clyde that would get the wider rim version for the 120kg fatboy amount of material in the rim, versus the racerboi weight weenie version.... my question is this... how does the quality of the ride vary from, say riding on a set of Stan's Flows or Sun Rhyno lites? This would be on a full suspension bike, a Niner Jet in an XL. 

These are now tubeless configuration also?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

subspd said:


> Does light-bike sell these as an option?


I don't think so.

FWIW, CX Rays perform exactly the same as Lasers for about 3x the money, so they are only "arguably the best spokes money can buy" if you insist on the look of bladed spokes.
Otherwise they are arguably a waste of money.


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

RandyBoy said:


> As a Clyde that would get the wider rim version for the 120kg fatboy amount of material in the rim, versus the racerboi weight weenie version.... my question is this... how does the quality of the ride vary from, say riding on a set of Stan's Flows or Sun Rhyno lites? This would be on a full suspension bike, a Niner Jet in an XL.


I can't tell a difference between the flows and the wide carbons unless I stop and look at my wheel.

Also, my narrow set of carbons actually weighed 10 grams more per than my set of wider ones.

odd


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> FWIW, CX Rays perform exactly the same as Lasers for about 3x the money, so they are only "arguably the best spokes money can buy" if you insist on the look of bladed spokes.
> Otherwise they are arguably a waste of money.


Agreed. Also, the aero spokes won't help much unless you are racing road/tri at 25mph avg..

They do look great though imo:thumbsup:


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Guys with the Novatec hubs what do you recommend for a trail bike with a 15mm from and a 135x10 rear? Also do they make anything that would work with a 135 rear bolt thru?

Looks like they make two versions of the 4in1








D992SB

and








D882SB

I take it these are what you want on the rear from these guys?

Novatec Hubs


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

rydbyk said:


> Agreed. Also, the aero spokes won't help much unless you are racing road/tri at 25mph avg..
> 
> They do look great though imo:thumbsup:


I went with CX-Ray because I'm still fairly new at building wheels and didn't want to worry about spoke torsion. I built my first wheel using CX-Rays and the 50mm carbon clinchers for my road bike...very easy with my bootlegged spoke holder.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

subspd said:


> Guys with the Novatec hubs what do you recommend for a trail bike with a 15mm from and a 135x10 rear? Also do they make anything that would work with a 135 rear bolt thru?
> 
> Looks like they make two versions of the 4in1
> 
> ...


if you want to run thru axles or have conversion abilities yes, one of those two
contact light-bicycle about the availability of these hubs, cost, and axle configurations...


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

RandyBoy said:


> As a Clyde that would get the wider rim version for the 120kg fatboy amount of material in the rim, versus the racerboi weight weenie version.... my question is this... how does the quality of the ride vary from, say riding on a set of Stan's Flows or Sun Rhyno lites? This would be on a full suspension bike, a Niner Jet in an XL.
> 
> These are now tubeless configuration also?


My AM carbon rims seem stiffer to me than my Flows - at least on my bikes (JET/RIP/DosNiner). Granted, my Flows are on the I9 Enduro wheels - and a lot could be said about those brittle little aluminum spokes I9 uses. Not to mention, they are about 300g lighter for the wheels.:thumbsup:

Laying the bike over at speed into corners the carbon rims toe the line hard and hold it tight. That, combined with a full suspension sled like the JET 9 working to keep things glued to the ground makes for a very nice combo IMO. I hesitate to say it, but they might just be "too stiff" for a lot of HT's. But that gets back to adding tapered steerers, 15mm TA and super-stiff wheels altogether might be getting a bit more than we need (but what we asked for).

I wouldn't hesitate to say for a big guy, even going to the AM carbon rim drilled for 36H (knowing you're using a FS) wouldn't be a bad thing.

BB


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## elcamino73 (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm sporting a new Rip9 and have ordered the wider am rims and plan on going tubless with IRD Fire 29er XC Pro 2.1 Tires, yellow tape and stans sealant. I would like to use Sapim inverted nipples and CX Ray spokes. Has anyone used these nipples? It looks to me that the spoke holes are not angled and inverted nipples seem to be a natural. But they do look the be a tight fit. I'm looking to build a very stiff wheel that is extremly light. I have mashed my DT Swiss x470/super comp combo to the ground.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

rydbyk said:


> They do look great though imo:thumbsup:


Just for looks is a perfectly fine reason to go bladed. :thumbsup:



anthonylokrn said:


> I went with CX-Ray because I'm still fairly new at building wheels and didn't want to worry about spoke torsion. I built my first wheel using CX-Rays and the 50mm carbon clinchers for my road bike...very easy with my bootlegged spoke holder.


Also not a bad reason to use them... though I built my second set of wheels with Revos and have never found wind-up to be an insurmountable issue.


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

Need help deciding between dt swiss 240s and and project 321 hubs. I've got a set of the light-bikes wide am matte 3k 32 hole rims coming soon (hopefully). Decided to have Dave Thomas of Speed Dream fame build them into the perfect wheelset for my sc tallboy. I love riding techie rocky trails (Colorado front range-devils backbone, hall ranch, etc) and making tough climbs, so im leaning toward p321, but for a little more dough i could have the lighter, quieter dt 240s. I don't race with anyone but myself , but quick acceleration is a big reason I'm making a change from my lead infused stock wheelset. Soooo...any opinions on these two hubs (which i chose mainly due to ability to easily change between 20mm front axle and a 15mm in case i switch forks). None of the above? Would love to hear from anyone, especially those running carbon rims already


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

tdoft said:


> Need help deciding between dt swiss 240s and and project 321 hubs. I've got a set of the light-bikes wide am matte 3k 32 hole rims coming soon (hopefully). Decided to have Dave Thomas of Speed Dream fame build them into the perfect wheelset for my sc tallboy. I love riding techie rocky trails (Colorado front range-devils backbone, hall ranch, etc) and making tough climbs, so im leaning toward p321, but for a little more dough i could have the lighter, quieter dt 240s. I don't race with anyone but myself , but quick acceleration is a big reason I'm making a change from my lead infused stock wheelset. Soooo...any opinions on these two hubs (which i chose mainly due to ability to easily change between 20mm front axle and a 15mm in case i switch forks). None of the above? Would love to hear from anyone, especially those running carbon rims already


I have beat to hell and back my DT Swiss 240S hubs, as well as a Hugi FR hub. I'm about 240 to 255 wet to ride... and I've been unable to tear them up or break them. Dave builds great wheels... ask him what he recommends for hubs.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

tdoft said:


> Need help deciding between dt swiss 240s and and project 321 hubs. I've got a set of the light-bikes wide am matte 3k 32 hole rims coming soon (hopefully). Decided to have Dave Thomas of Speed Dream fame build them into the perfect wheelset for my sc tallboy. I love riding techie rocky trails (Colorado front range-devils backbone, hall ranch, etc) and making tough climbs, so im leaning toward p321, but for a little more dough i could have the lighter, quieter dt 240s. I don't race with anyone but myself , but quick acceleration is a big reason I'm making a change from my lead infused stock wheelset. Soooo...any opinions on these two hubs (which i chose mainly due to ability to easily change between 20mm front axle and a 15mm in case i switch forks). None of the above? Would love to hear from anyone, especially those running carbon rims already


I had mine laced to Kings and am extremely happy with them. I wanted burly, and CK seemed to be the consensus pick there. I'm 215 lb. ready to ride and also pilot a Tallboy.


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

hillharman said:


> I had mine laced to Kings and am extremely happy with them. I wanted burly, and CK seemed to be the consensus pick there. I'm 215 lb. ready to ride and also pilot a Tallboy.


Thanks guys! Forgot to mention that I'm about 170 fully geared. Dave and I chatted at length about ck vs dt vs p321. I shied away from ck because I had a set in the past and didn't like the noise or the drag. Full disclosure: I'm no mechanic! I absolutely ignored hub maintenance on my cks and by the time i sold my Titus racer x the rear hub was practically frozen. Going forward i plan to have the hub serviced by someone else once a year but I don't want to think about it the rest of the year. Dave seemed to lean toward p321 for better value. I lean toward dt swiss 240s for weight, quietness and bombproof rep. I guess it comes down to 1) are p321 hubs bombproof such they can be ignored? Is the engagement of p321 noticeably better than the upgraded dt 240? Anyone have enough miles on the p321s to vouch for them?


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

hillharman said:


> I had mine laced to Kings and am extremely happy with them. I wanted burly, and CK seemed to be the consensus pick there. I'm 215 lb. ready to ride and also pilot a Tallboy.


Thanks guys! Forgot to mention that I'm about 170 fully geared. Dave and I chatted at length about ck vs dt vs p321. I shied away from ck because I had a set in the past and didn't like the noise or the drag. Full disclosure: I'm no mechanic! I absolutely ignored hub maintenance on my cks and by the time i sold my Titus racer x the rear hub was practically frozen. Going forward i plan to have the hub serviced by someone else once a year but I don't want to think about it the rest of the year. Dave seemed to lean toward p321 for better value. I lean toward dt swiss 240s for weight, quietness and bombproof rep. I guess it comes down to 1) are p321 hubs bombproof such they can be ignored? Is the engagement of p321 noticeably better than the upgraded dt 240? Anyone have enough miles on the p321s to vouch for them?


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> I love riding techie rocky trails (Colorado front range-devils backbone, hall ranch, etc) and making tough climbs, so im leaning toward p321,


If you said that you just ride flat, moderate stuff, I would say DT swiss. I love the rocky, techy crazy stuff too. Let me tell you this, my ZTR hubs now hang on my walls as back ups, I just can't ride anything less than 72 POE now. I just love it for the tech, rocky, climb anything. You should check out Hadley. Fairly quiet, low rolling resistant, get up to speed super fast, 72 POE. I just love them. The rear "bolt on" design is very nice and the 20mm down hill does not just pop in, it screws in, really nice touch. The red Hadleys will be laced up to the wider carbon rims from light bike. IMHO they are smoother rolling than my I9's but the i9's do roll pretty well. I do belive the P321 have the i9 internals. I do like the i9's too, the POE is off the chain. My next set will be CK. You let a pair of $400 CK seize up:eekster::eekster:


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

I'll have to ask Dave about Hadleys. I kinda thought they were heavy? Yes, i let a 400 set of hubs freeze up. Doh:-( I basically gave up riding after the birth of my first child and the cks suffered. More on topic: Is there anything about these carbon rims that would pull you in one direction or another in terms of hubs? P321s are sounding really good to me right now....


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> I'll have to ask Dave about Hadleys. I kinda thought they were heavy? Yes, i let a 400 set of hubs freeze up. Doh:-( I basically gave up riding after the birth of my first child and the cks suffered. More on topic: Is there anything about these carbon rims that would pull you in one direction or another in terms of hubs? P321s are sounding really good to me right now....


I think these laced to anything with 72 POE is going to be off the chain crazy. I have found that tires do sit better in the wider rims and tend to be more stable at lower psi. I was riding Arches, but switched over to flows and I have been loving them. I love my stans flows and they weigh 520 grams, but I don't race. I can't wait to get a pair of the mountain carbon and have them laced up. I don't think you'll be dissapointed with P321. You could flip a coin. The Hadleys are nice man and put together very well. My i9's, the front 20mm is a plug, the rear bolt on is two bolts. Design wise, I like the Hadleys slightly better. The P321 will def have a slight advantage with engagment. If the P321 are calling you, then go with it. :thumbsup:


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

crclawn said:


> I think these laced to anything with 72 POE is going to be off the chain crazy.


If having lots of points of engagement is a priority have you seen the new Kappius hubs? They have 240 points of engagement and seem like an interesting option.

Sea Otter 2012: Kappius Components Show Evolution Hubs - BikeRadar

The carbon fibre hubs would look good with your carbon rims too.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Sad to hear someone let their CKs go bad. One of my rear CKs is about 10 years old, and with a bit of yearly tlc, its as good as new.


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

Whoa those Kappius hubs are redonculous! If cost were no object....For a 40+ weekend warrior working stiff such as myself it's all overkill, but that's just batshit crazy! I guess l'll just flip a coin...but after seeing those red Hadleys it's gonna have to be a three sided coin....


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

If you want the POE, with the weight penalty, then go Hadley's. I have 2 pair of those also, good quality hubs, but if the rear hub makes freewheeling noise, you need to get the wrench set, open it up and add some teflon lube to the pawls. Noise = wear and friction and damage. Keep them running quiet.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

no need for the wrench set for hadleys, just get the 21mm cone wrench from park and their pin spanner


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Poe*

Dave at Speed Dream feels that lots o' POE are more beneficial for slower riders. He says that fast racer weenie types won't really see/feel the benefits so much.. I guess if you are constantly on the gas, then it doesn't matter so much.

.01


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*well, mostly....*



rydbyk said:


> Dave at Speed Dream feels that lots o' POE are more beneficial for slower riders. He says that fast racer weenie types won't really see/feel the benefits so much.. I guess if you are constantly on the gas, then it doesn't matter so much.
> 
> .01


Racerboys don't need super low speed granny gear when hammertiming buff singletrack at an average of 18 mph.

If you're a weekender middle aged fatass such as myself.... I have a 20x36 low granny gear to crank up the crazy steep stuff (like Two Dollar Hill), and trying to ratchet up rocks and techy balalnce act kinda stuff while doing it, having the cranks free spin 1/4 turn before catching on a 16 POE hub reeeaally sucks.

I mean, 240 POE is pretty excessive, maybe kinda silly... but maybe not. 30 POE on my Real Design rear hub is fine for me, although I might enjoy more.


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

20/36? How do you keep from falling over? Do you climb hills while doing a wheelie?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I've just come off a set of Kings on my Flows. I built my Light-Bike carbons up with DT 240s and upgraded the rear to 36 point. I won't blow smoke up your butt and say there's no difference in engagement from the Kings but seriously, it's not a big difference. I still ratchet up anything I want and have not once got stopped in a situation where I thought "man, I would have made that with my King!". The added bonus is they roll MUCH faster and I also know they're quite a bit lighter. They're not blingy but they'll last every bit as long and are easily serviceable without a special tool kit. They'll save me money in the long run since I can service them myself and they're World Class as evidenced by the MANY top racers that use them. Nothing against Hadley, I9, Kings, etc., but I've found "MY" hub for the many years to come


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

DFYFZX said:


> I've just come off a set of Kings on my Flows. I built my Light-Bike carbons up with DT 240s and upgraded the rear to 36 point. I won't blow smoke up your butt and say there's no difference in engagement from the Kings but seriously, it's not a big difference. I still ratchet up anything I want and have not once got stopped in a situation where I thought "man, I would have made that with my King!". The added bonus is they roll MUCH faster and I also know they're quite a bit lighter. They're not blingy but they'll last every bit as long and are easily serviceable without a special tool kit. They'll save me money in the long run since I can service them myself and they're World Class as evidenced by the MANY top racers that use them. Nothing against Hadley, I9, Kings, etc., but I've found "MY" hub for the many years to come


This is exactly the kind of info I need. Thanks!:thumbsup:


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

I have 2 sets of DT 240s and a set of I9s, and I'm with you. The I9s engage as close to instantly as I can perceive, but the 240s with the 36 point ratchets are certainly close enough. I completely agree that the 7 (3 vs. 10) degrees less engagement between the 2 types of hubs has never been the difference between making a section and not making it.


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## petepeterson (Apr 30, 2010)

I too am looking for 135x10mm thru axle QR and asked about those specific hubs given that Nancy told me they source their hubs from Novatec. She said she spoke with with the supplier this morning and that they were not available... and could take a while. I asked her to check if there are any options for 135x10mm thru axle QR and she said not that she was aware of but would look into it. Didn't sound overly optimistic but she is getting back to me.
I will probably end up just ordering hubs from Superstar given their price/weight - I'll build them up with some Sapim Race/Laser spokes.



subspd said:


> Guys with the Novatec hubs what do you recommend for a trail bike with a 15mm from and a 135x10 rear? Also do they make anything that would work with a 135 rear bolt thru?
> 
> Looks like they make two versions of the 4in1
> 
> I take it these are what you want on the rear from these guys?


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

RandyBoy said:


> I've got end to end side play in the bearings of my Hugi FR hubs now on my WFO after 1.5 years of beating hard on it.... that is something you can take out with a Hadley hub with pre load tension on the bearing races, there is no adjustment for it on the DT Swiss hubs.


Because DT Swiss uses sealed bearings in the described case you would need to simply replace them.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

tdoft said:


> This is exactly the kind of info I need. Thanks!:thumbsup:


I've got end to end side play in the bearings of my Hugi FR hubs now on my WFO after 1.5 years of beating hard on it.... that is something you can take out with a Hadley hub with pre load tension on the bearing races, there is no adjustment for it on the DT Swiss hubs. Time for new bearings so that the brake rotors no longer rub on the pads.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

mtbnozpikr said:


> Because DT Swiss uses sealed bearings in the described case you would need to simply replace them.


hadley also uses sealed bearings


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

RandyBoy said:


> yes, but you can pre tension them for end play.:thumbsup:


agreed, thats what im running too, thought he was pointing out you couldnt do that on sealed bearings was all i was getting at


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

clewttu said:


> hadley also uses sealed bearings


yes, but you can pre tension them for end play.:thumbsup:


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

clewttu said:


> hadley also uses sealed bearings


I guess I'm referring to sealed cartridge bearings. Anyway, once the races wear out (usually happens before the balls do), it's time for a new set.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

mtbnozpikr said:


> I guess I'm referring to sealed cartridge bearings. Anyway, once the races wear out (usually happens before the balls do), it's time for a new set.


yeah, i understand, but that exactly what hadleys use as well


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

clewttu said:


> yeah, i understand, but that exactly what hadleys use as well


I see what you're getting at regarding the Hadleys. I didn't realize you were just referring to preloading them.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Oops sorry, I thought this was the carbon wheel thread!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Very carefully*



Ilikebmx999 said:


> 20/36? How do you keep from falling over? Do you climb hills while doing a wheelie?


Balance! You should see some of the walls we have to tractor up around here.

At first, I bought the 36t ebay pie plate because I was having a bear of a time finding 5 arm compact cranks to get 20/30/42 chainrings up front. With a 22t granny a 36t makes for about the same gear ratio as 20x30, but with modern parts.

Then, I got a wacky idea of just using the 36t cog with a 20t compact crank... just to see how stupid it is. Turns out I love it. Its not that stupid low.

This is the hill:

Heh.. really, video doesn't begin to show how crazy steep this is. I have never cleaned it myself, but came close a few times.






This one shows it a bit better with Mountain Unicycles... from the U-Games a couple years ago:






uh, wait... wasn't this about those carbon rims??


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

Real world test:

What happens when you slap on the ardent 2.25 maxxis on the rear (lesson learned at 25 psi tubeless with one layer of Stan's tape- too low) of a Santa Cruz highball, traveling at about 10mph and coming up short on a bunny hop over a curb?

A loud carbon -to -asphalt "whack" and not even a burp from the tires.




























If you had a smooth cross country race this weekend, would you still ride these light bicycle cf am wider rims?

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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

One more pic too show you:










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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yikes!*

Somebody finally had a real world failure. That's kinda scary. I mean, a direct curb strike is pretty tough on any rim, but I figured these would handle it. I did that with a Bontrager Mustang rim one, and it just bent over the sidewalls a bit, made a flat spot.



misooscar said:


> Real world test:
> 
> What happens when you slap on the ardent 2.25 maxxis on the rear (lesson learned at 25 psi tubeless with one layer of Stan's tape- too low) of a Santa Cruz highball, traveling at about 10mph and coming up short on a bunny hop over a curb?
> 
> ...


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## mattgVT (Nov 9, 2010)

misooscar said:


> Real world test:
> 
> What happens when you slap on the ardent 2.25 maxxis on the rear (lesson learned at 25 psi tubeless with one layer of Stan's tape- too low) of a Santa Cruz highball, traveling at about 10mph and coming up short on a bunny hop over a curb?
> 
> ...


So the tire didn't burp at all?!? That's kinda nuts, I never run tubeless tires above 25 psi. I've had ardent 2.25s for the past year and I've knocked (other non carbon rims) running under 20 psi, but never when above twenty. That's a bummer man, sorry to see that.

I had my first ride on the rear I built up last night, still waiting on spokes for the front. Doing a little deflection test with my hands, the wheel is most definitely laterally stiffer, quite a bit feeling. My other wheels, Charger Pro's, don't take much force to push into the chainstay, while these take a fair amount more effort. Currently running with tubes (not a single lbs has yellow tape!) and I'm missing that smooth tubeless feel. I did notice while riding that the rear feels lighter, almost skittering (is that a word?) across bumps - at the moment, I'm attributing this to the tube and new tire, hoping it feels a little better set up tubeless. Also this tire has an exo casing vs the last tire I had. I'm running 2.2 Ikon's on the new wheels, while I had ardent 2.25's before. The ardents are WAY bigger than the .05 inch difference in stated tire width would have you believe, and I might be switching back but want to give the Ikon's a thorough shot before going back.

Also, not related to the rims, but I have one of the new e13 hubs built up on this wheel. This hub is LOUD! Wow, I thought the charger pro's were loud, but this thing is on another level. Might hit up e13 to see if there's anything I can do to quiet it a bit. Not too annoying really, and worth the much quicker engagement over the chargers.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Got a couple hundred miles on my set now and still going strong! Swapped bikes with my buddy (same bike but without the carbon rims) and the difference was amazing. So much that he is building a set for himself. Can't imagine going back to AL rims


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

misooscar said:


> If you had a smooth cross country race this weekend, would you still ride these light bicycle cf am wider rims?


the one you broke? not a chance!


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

misooscar said:


> Real world test:
> 
> What happens when you slap on the ardent 2.25 maxxis on the rear (lesson learned at 25 psi tubeless with one layer of Stan's tape- too low) of a Santa Cruz highball, traveling at about 10mph and coming up short on a bunny hop over a curb?
> 
> A loud carbon -to -asphalt "whack" and not even a burp from the tires.


Not really surprised. That's a pretty high impact load for the rim to absorb. How much do you weigh? And, I would not even consider riding on that rim, unless I was limping it back to the truck.


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## Quinner (Aug 29, 2011)

Interested in some more color from hardtail riders - are these rims too stiff for hardtails as some have suggested?


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Quinner said:


> Interested in some more color from hardtail riders - are these rims too stiff for hardtails as some have suggested?


Are you asking if these carbon rims will cause your existing hard tail to be too harsh of a ride?


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

ktm520 said:


> Not really surprised. That's a pretty high impact load for the rim to absorb. How much do you weigh? And, I would not even consider riding on that rim, unless I was limping it back to the truck.


165 lbs

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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

mattgVT said:


> So the tire didn't burp at all?!? That's kinda nuts, I never run tubeless tires above 25 psi. I've had ardent 2.25s for the past year and I've knocked (other non carbon rims) running under 20 psi, but never when above twenty. That's a bummer man, sorry to see that.
> 
> I had my first ride on the rear I built up last night, still waiting on spokes for the front. Doing a little deflection test with my hands, the wheel is most definitely laterally stiffer, quite a bit feeling. My other wheels, Charger Pro's, don't take much force to push into the chainstay, while these take a fair amount more effort. Currently running with tubes (not a single lbs has yellow tape!) and I'm missing that smooth tubeless feel. I did notice while riding that the rear feels lighter, almost skittering (is that a word?) across bumps - at the moment, I'm attributing this to the tube and new tire, hoping it feels a little better set up tubeless. Also this tire has an exo casing vs the last tire I had. I'm running 2.2 Ikon's on the new wheels, while I had ardent 2.25's before. The ardents are WAY bigger than the .05 inch difference in stated tire width would have you believe, and I might be switching back but want to give the Ikon's a thorough shot before going back.
> 
> Also, not related to the rims, but I have one of the new e13 hubs built up on this wheel. This hub is LOUD! Wow, I thought the charger pro's were loud, but this thing is on another level. Might hit up e13 to see if there's anything I can do to quiet it a bit. Not too annoying really, and worth the much quicker engagement over the chargers.


No burp... still 25 psi when I rode it back home

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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Not sure how that's the rims fault......


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

I think rim-curb strikes are the worst test for impact. Usually you are going fast, and it's 5-6in's tall. that's bigger than any root. Plus, roots are rounded.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

misooscar said:


> If you had a smooth cross country race this weekend, would you still ride these light bicycle cf am wider rims?


If the crack is only through a portion of the rim I think you can ride it. Maybe put a tube in their and protect from any shards..

I would ride it and laugh my ass off the whole time. Your only real concern would be frame and component damage if it came apart on you.

At this point, the carbon has failed, I doubt it will spread too much unless there are several repeated hits. The spokes and tire support it from both sides.

You are safe. Enjoy.


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## Quinner (Aug 29, 2011)

rydbyk said:


> Are you asking if these carbon rims will cause your existing hard tail to be too harsh of a ride?


yes if you read through the posts you will see some have suggested the stiffness of the rims may result in a harsh ride if used on a hardtail. Just wondered if anyone has further views on that.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Quinner said:


> yes if you read through the posts you will see some have suggested the stiffness of the rims may result in a harsh ride if used on a hardtail. Just wondered if anyone has further views on that.


I laugh every time I read such comments:madman:. Couldn't disagree more.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> I laugh every time I read such comments:madman:. Couldn't disagree more.


The person posting that must work for a large and successful aluminum rim manufacturer.


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

Quinner said:


> yes if you read through the posts you will see some have suggested the stiffness of the rims may result in a harsh ride if used on a hardtail. Just wondered if anyone has further views on that.


more harsh for sure, too harsh is subjective. I use my set for racing both on my scalpel and my MC056 HT. I have put about 75 miles on my set with them mounted on my MC056 HT. In the choppy stuff, roots, etc. I can absolutely notice the difference between my arches (that are normally on the bike) and these. Feels like you just removed a percentage of travel out of the fork. Or have the rebound too slow. Just to cruze around everyday and ride, i wouldnt use them where I live (northeast). As my race wheelset though, they are perfect. the acceleration and turning improvements are awesome.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Adroit Rider said:


> If the crack is only through a portion of the rim I think you can ride it. Maybe put a tube in their and protect from any shards..
> 
> I would ride it and laugh my ass off the whole time. Your only real concern would be frame and component damage if it came apart on you.
> 
> ...


LOL, throw some smilies in when you post up a sarcastic response like that...someone may believe what you typed


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## theminsta (Jan 21, 2009)

misooscar said:


> One more pic too show you:
> 
> *Interior photo of cracked/crumbled rim*
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


Sorry to hear that. On the other hand, could you re-take this photo? You focused the camera to the wall instead of the rim interior. If I recall my facts straight, isn't carbon supposed to be better at absorbing and not deforming from impacts than, say, aluminum?

-Jason


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

well I just did the same thing (unsuccessfully tried to bunnyhop a curb) with my wtb sx24 26" rims with 25ish psi and put a huge dent in the rear. I don't think any rim would do well if coming down from a jump at 10mph hitting a concrete corner.


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## m3bas (Dec 24, 2011)

My Roval carbon rim has done something exactly the same so don't think its confined to the chinese rims


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

theminsta said:


> isn't carbon supposed to be better at absorbing and not deforming from impacts than, say, aluminum?


True but only up to the limit that carbon can absorb.


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi, does anyone have a picture of the UD finish? thanks!


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

misooscar said:


> Real world test:
> 
> What happens when you slap on the ardent 2.25 maxxis on the rear (lesson learned at 25 psi tubeless with one layer of Stan's tape- too low) of a Santa Cruz highball, traveling at about 10mph and coming up short on a bunny hop over a curb?
> 
> ...


If you're hitting curbs trying to bunnyhop them maybe carbon rims aren't for you


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

SwintOrSlude said:


> Hi, does anyone have a picture of the UD finish? thanks!


The pictures don't really do justice to the finishing, but here are 2 pics from my set. As a comparison, the UD looks very similar to my Tallboy CF.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Rivet said:


> If you're hitting curbs trying to bunnyhop them maybe carbon rims aren't for you


*grin*

Strangely, I find it reassuring that after a failed bunnyhop on a curb the wheel hasn't failed dramatically.

I had my first ride out today on my set, wheels feel different than the american classic rims I replaced. The wider footprint is nice in corners and the additional stiffness in the rear wheel makes me aware of some flex in my Tallboy's rear (which I thought was super stiff with the previous wheelset). A race coming up on sunday, let's see if they make me any faster :skep:


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

figo said:


> *grin*
> 
> Strangely, I find it reassuring that after a failed bunnyhop on a curb the wheel hasn't failed dramatically.
> 
> I had my first ride out today on my set, wheels feel different than the american classic rims I replaced. The wider footprint is nice in corners and the additional stiffness in the rear wheel makes me aware of some flex in my Tallboy's rear (which I thought was super stiff with the previous wheelset). A race coming up on sunday, let's see if they make me any faster :skep:


You will be way faster....by at least .03 seconds!  Good luck in the race. Git sum.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> You will be way faster....by at least .03 seconds!  Good luck in the race. Git sum.


Fantastic, that might make the difference between 131st and 132nd


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Thanks for actually giving details about the circumstance in which the rim failed. To just hear that it broke may have been off putting. With the details it just shows that these cheap carbon rims are not DH tough. I bet my 36 hole sun mammoth rim would have taken the hit and chipped away a little bit of the concrete edge of the curb, then again its what a 900gram rim. I would expect most rims to have trouble with hitting a square concrete or rock edge hard. If any thing its reassuring that it did not fail catastrophically upon impact. 

When I have decent paying work again I will probably build up a set of wheels with these rims.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

SwintOrSlude said:


> Hi, does anyone have a picture of the UD finish? thanks!


From a couple of feet away, UD Matte looks indistinguishable from a normal black anodised aluminium rim.

(I'm running both on the same bike)


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

womble said:


> From a couple of feet away, UD Matte looks indistinguishable from a normal black anodised aluminium rim.


True...


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## joshthedoc1 (Aug 1, 2006)

*build suggestions*

I am thinking about getting a pre built wheelset from Light-Bicycle. The Novatec 881/882 are fine for now. I am just not sure about the build itself. Any suggestions on the spoke number and if they should use more carbon for the build. I see that the hoops will have extra carbon in the build for the bigger riders. I don't want to over build and make them too heavy. I am about 180 with all my gear and I am currently on a Tallboy. I am in So Cal, and i ride aggressively, but I tend not to do many drops. I've never taco'd a rim. The forum has been great, keep it up.


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## Jimmy V (Nov 7, 2011)

joshthedoc1
mtbr member
*
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
Rep: 
user gallery 

build suggestions
I am thinking about getting a pre built wheelset from Light-Bicycle. The Novatec 881/882 are fine for now. I am just not sure about the build itself. Any suggestions on the spoke number and if they should use more carbon for the build. I see that the hoops will have extra carbon in the build for the bigger riders. I don't want to over build and make them too heavy. I am about 180 with all my gear and I am currently on a Tallboy. I am in So Cal, and i ride aggressively, but I tend not to do many drops. I've never taco'd a rim. The forum has been great, keep it up.


Yes. Same interest, only I'm 225 ready to ride. 
They may be cheap compared to name brand.
But not so cheap as to be disposable, not for me anyway. 
Does this hub set, their spokes and builder equal a quality product?
I know... I don't want much. But times are tough. Looking for a steal/deal!
How do they compare to the big name wheel sets?


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Jimmy V said:


> joshthedoc1
> mtbr member
> *
> Join Date: Jul 2006
> ...


I have never seen that happen before. Did you copy/paste his whole section? Just use "quote" button next time and it will grab what he wrote and then you can respond to it. Just an FYI...

.02


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

figo said:


> The pictures don't really do justice to the finishing, but here are 2 pics from my set. As a comparison, the UD looks very similar to my Tallboy CF.


Thank you, they seem to have a discreet look to them, I think I'm gonna give them a try.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm still curious if people have been able to mount Geax TNT tires on the wider rims. I've got the wheels and would like to put some Gato TNTs on them. My HAns Dampfs, though I love them, are rubbing on my Reba.


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

Are tires really more difficult to mount on the wider rims? This would be another argument in favor of buying them as I could run my low pressures without the fear of the tire rolling off the rim (which happened to me before @1.8 bars (minion dhf 2.35 on XM719 disc)).


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

SwintOrSlude said:


> Are tires really more difficult to mount on the wider rims? This would be another argument in favor of buying them as I could run my low pressures without the fear of the tire rolling off the rim (which happened to me before @1.8 bars (minion dhf 2.35 on XM719 disc)).


The Geax TNT bead is notoriously difficult to mount on Stan's rims, and I was wondering if the same was true with the wide Chinese carbon rims.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

My rims are sitting in New York Customs for the second day! Just release them already!!!

Man, the wait is killing me!!!

Edit - they are in the same zip code!!! Should be here today or tomorrow.


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## karatemonkey (Mar 9, 2007)

Some pics of my UD-matte rims...









mmm, burly carbon 29er rims!  Gonna, let the Bandit shed almost 1.7 pounds of rolling weight, gain a wider footprint, and open up a whole new world of 29er shredding!!! STOKED!! :ihih:









Interior detail. The seam you see at the top of the photo is smooth as a baby's behind









Purty, IMO. You can only see this carbon detail in the magic hour light like in this photo. Under intense mid-day sun or indoor lighting, the rim color is flat.










I ordered my rims on April 6, they shipped April 20, I had them in my hands 4 days later! :thumbsup:

One weighs 390g the other 410g.

Gonna build em up with DT 240s, supercomps and alloy nips for a sub 1600g, 30mm wide, uber stiff, all mountain 29er wheel! Can't f'ing wait!!!


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

Any feedback on the wider rims ran tubeless with some single ply tires? Compared to a true UST rim, I mean, in terms of how well the tire stays on the bead / how airtight the setup is.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a set of wheels. I have no doubts about the rims. My only hangup is the Novatec hubs and concerns about reliability. I'd be getting the D881/D882 which are 15mm / 142x12. I may also have the rims built up with AmClassic 130/225 hubs. 

Are the Novatec hubs as reliable / serviceable as AmClassic? Granted, that's not a really high bar. Are freehub parts available or interchangeable with AmClassic? I assume bearings are standard.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

anyone purchase them in the gloss finish having problems with them scratching?

I'm still debating on matte or gloss finish.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Hi, people. This might be of interest to some of you. 
I ordered a set of narrow 29er rims from Nancy on April 25th and the order was accepted and a tracking number (delivery) promissed within 7 working days. Haven't heard from her since I today inquired about the status of my order. I learnt that there is a manufacturing delay and some testing is going on "these days" to update manufacturing process to make rims better. No words about when they'll again be able to deliver, so my order was cancelled and I received a full refund promptly. Very sad for me as I was looking forward to building them for my Bad Boy. Nancy offered me the wide rims, but they are too wide for my needs.
Maybe someone could suggest a source for rims similar to what I wanted - carbon 29ers (700) without brake tracks in medium width?


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

giantdale said:


> Hi, people. This might be of interest to some of you.
> I ordered a set of narrow 29er rims from Nancy on April 25th and the order was accepted and a tracking number (delivery) promissed within 7 working days. Haven't heard from her since I today inquired about the status of my order. I learnt that there is a manufacturing delay and some testing is going on "these days" to update manufacturing process to make rims better. No words about when they'll again be able to deliver, so my order was cancelled and I received a full refund promptly. Very sad for me as I was looking forward to building them for my Bad Boy. Nancy offered me the wide rims, but they are too wide for my needs.
> Maybe someone could suggest a source for rims similar to what I wanted - carbon 29ers (700) without brake tracks in medium width?


I must have missed something, but I don't recall seeing an option for "narrow" 29er carbon rims.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

If you read the thread there is a diagram somewhere showing 26.75 outer and 20.81 mm inner width. Nancy calls them narrow, but these rims are already on the wide side.


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## girlscantell (Oct 19, 2008)

I think by "narrow" he's referring to the standard size rim. 

I have mounted and remounted a pair of Conti X King Racesports on the wider rims. The bead seals great cause it's super tight.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

giantdale said:


> If you read the thread there is a diagram somewhere showing 26.75 outer and 20.81 mm inner width. Nancy calls them narrow, but these rims are already on the wide side.


Thx. Were they 29er hoops? I never saw those listed/pictured on the website for Light-Bicycle.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

rydbyk said:


> Thx. Were they 29er hoops? I never saw those listed/pictured on the website for Light-Bicycle.


doesnt look like they are listed anymore, not sure whether that means they stopped production or what


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

*Just got mine*

Just picked up from post office. Not much to the packaging but they look great. No perceived problems from my visual inspection. Here are the weights:


















Hubs are donor hubs off a AC 350 wheelset. LIGHT:


















Dropping at the shop tomorrow to get them built. Riding in a week or so!


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

In case there is any interest. I'm in the process of converting my Vaya Ti from gravel grinding to road. I have the wide 29er/700c version of the nancy wu light bikes rims. Here are some pics with the Clement Strada LGG 700x28 tire. I'm happy to say the fit is perfect and these will be a delightful tubular type ride on the road.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

hogprint, thanks for the pictures. Your tyre/rim combo fit together superbly indeed. Food for thought...


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## morris89 (Jul 14, 2006)

hogprint	what is the pressure on your road tires ?

What is the limit pressure for the RIM ?


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

100psi. Light bikes has a limit of 130 published for their road rims and 65 for MTB. I'm not concerned. These are the extra beefy 29er wide rims.

I've got over 1000 miles of gravel riding on these with 40mm tires at 70-80 psi. No issues.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

haha, 28's on the wide rims? interesting setup!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

SwintOrSlude said:


> Are tires really more difficult to mount on the wider rims? This would be another argument in favor of buying them as I could run my low pressures without the fear of the tire rolling off the rim (which happened to me before @1.8 bars (minion dhf 2.35 on XM719 disc)).


Well, the Bontrager Rhythm tubeless strips work on the wider AM carbon rims. With those strips, I actually had difficulty getting my Nobby Nics mounted (had to use the tire iron to get them on). I didn't try without the strips - so can't answer your question from that angle. But with the Bonty strips - the wide rims are golden in terms of a secure mount for low psi's. I was running my Nobby Nics sub 20 psi the past few days, but jacked them up to mid 20's today for some speed.

BB


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## D_Man (Jan 7, 2004)

hogprint said:


> 100psi. Light bikes has a limit of 130 published for their road rims and 65 for MTB. I'm not concerned. These are the extra beefy 29er wide rims.
> 
> I've got over 1000 miles of gravel riding on these with 40mm tires at 70-80 psi. No issues.


Cool setup--I'm tempted to try it on an incoming disk brake equipped road bike of mine.

Seems like one of the benefits of going tubeless would be to be able to lower the pressure somewhat without worrying about a pinchflat on the road, non? I guess it all depends on your weight, but to me 28s feel a whole lot better at 85 than 100.

But maybe I misunderstood and these are not actually set up tubeless?


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

BruceBrown said:


> Well, the Bontrager Rhythm tubeless strips work on the wider AM carbon rims. With those strips, I actually had difficulty getting my Nobby Nics mounted (had to use the tire iron to get them on). I didn't try without the strips - so can't answer your question from that angle. But with the Bonty strips - the wide rims are golden in terms of a secure mount for low psi's. I was running my Nobby Nics sub 20 psi the past few days, but jacked them up to mid 20's today for some speed.
> 
> BB


Thanks a lot for the feedback, very interesting. If you ever get a chance to run only tape (like the yellow tape from Stan's) I'm interested.


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## ccornacc (Mar 26, 2007)

I set one up with just yellow tape and a valve with no issues. I mounted a Ardent 2.4 and it has barley lost any air after a few rides. I needed a CO2 to mount it, but I have a crappy floor pump that was not cutting it. I also mounted one up with a Stan's strip and an Ignitor tire with no issues either. You don't hear a loud pop when the bead sets like a stan's rim, but it holds air just as well if not better. They set up and feel better than a set of older edge xc rims I have. I am looking to sell those and get another set of these.


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

ccornacc said:


> I set one up with just yellow tape and a valve with no issues. I mounted a Ardent 2.4 and it has barley lost any air after a few rides. I needed a CO2 to mount it, but I have a crappy floor pump that was not cutting it. I also mounted one up with a Stan's strip and an Ignitor tire with no issues either. You don't hear a loud pop when the bead sets like a stan's rim, but it holds air just as well if not better. They set up and feel better than a set of older edge xc rims I have. I am looking to sell those and get another set of these.


Be careful with CO2 and Latex, they don't seem to like each other from what I've read, because of the coldness of the CO2 coming out of the cartridge.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

SwintOrSlude said:


> Be careful with CO2 and Latex, they don't seem to like each other from what I've read, because of the coldness of the CO2 coming out of the cartridge.


It's the acidity.


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## ccornacc (Mar 26, 2007)

Never heard that, please elaborate or point me towards that article. I have never had any issues.


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## clarkalewis (Mar 2, 2004)

mine built up very well, good tension, perfectly round and true.
very nice ride quality, big increase in stiffness compared to flow's.

set up tubeless easily, very tight bead, but unfortunately they burp badly in challenging terrain, especially with hard cornering. i used stans yellow tape and goo and was running new tubeless-ready racing ralph's, which i've had zero issues with for 3 years on stans rims at 32/35 psi. i had to run 35/40 psi on the carbon rims to reduce the burping but it was still happening.

on my third ride during a race i pre-jumped a waterbar going very fast and hit a babyhead in the bottom of it (covered by water). there was a loud crack that sounded like the frame breaking (chromag 29er steel hardtail), then i lost all air pressure. one of the beads is crushed. i'm waiting to hear back from nancy about a replacement, though i wouldn't blame them if they said i'm on my own. an aluminum rim would have dented badly (at least). i'm switching to arch ex's.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Some of these catastrophic rim strikes sound like they are happening at lower pressures, which were the result of a tubeless setup that had leaked down. I have hit sharp edges incredibly hard, in one case, hard enough to go completely over the bars, and I don't even contact the rim. This is with Hans Dampfs at 20-25 psi. I'm using yellow tape, and it actually took awhile for the tubeless setup to take, i.e. I went through several loads of Stan's before I was really holding air. I'm not sure where the leak was, as I couldn't identify anything serious. But if you are slow leaking, you may put 40 psi in the tire, but if it's down to 10 or 15 before you realize, you will start to get some burps. I have had no issues at all once my tires were holding air reliably. I've got the rim strips on the way just in case, but I don't know that I'll use them.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

clarkalewis said:


> mine built up very well, good tension, perfectly round and true.
> very nice ride quality, big increase in stiffness compared to flow's.
> 
> set up tubeless easily, very tight bead, but unfortunately they burp badly in challenging terrain, especially with hard cornering. i used stans yellow tape and goo and was running new tubeless-ready racing ralph's, which i've had zero issues with for 3 years on stans rims at 32/35 psi. i had to run 35/40 psi on the carbon rims to reduce the burping but it was still happening.
> ...


I wonder if the burps are because the yellow tape is just not thick enough to keep the bead on tight. I hope others try thicker tape. Not familiar with the bontrager strips but I bet there a lot thicker than stans yellow.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

is anyone of the consenses that the bontrager rythym strips resist burping better than the yellow tape, which in my opinion only seals the spoke holes?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

*Stans tape*

I used Stans tape when I first went tubeless with some Mavic 717 rims. I since switched to Crossmax UST on my SS and Bontrager Strips on mt geared bike and have been worry free.

I use Stans sealant.

I have the Rhythm strips for my Chinese Carbon.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

hogprint said:


> 100psi. Light bikes has a limit of 130 published for their road rims and 65 for MTB. I'm not concerned. These are the extra beefy 29er wide rims.
> 
> I've got over 1000 miles of gravel riding on these with 40mm tires at 70-80 psi. No issues.


So, let me get this straight... Those are the 30mm wide, tubeless 29er's from Light-Bicycle, Nancy Yu?

And you're running 28c tires on them? So I shouldn't have any problem running 34-35c tubeless CX tires on them, you think?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

bt said:


> is anyone of the consenses that the bontrager rythym strips resist burping better than the yellow tape, which in my opinion only seals the spoke holes?


Yes. Even with a TLR rim and a TLR tire, a rim strip is still the appropriate set up. Some tire/wheel combos will let you "get away" without using a strip, but a strip is still advised. Tape is strictly for the spoke holes.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Tire sizes and rim tapes- hope this help 

Tire size - this question is correctly answered with a rule of thumb type formula and some user preference.

Remember when it comes to tire widths only the inside width matters. I.E. a 30mm rim with 2mm thick walls will be 26mm and a 30mm rim with a 23mm inside width will have 3.5mm walls. 

Narrowest - take the inside width of the rim and multiply by 1.4. i.e. 23mm rim inside width x 1.4 = 32mm. Any thing smaller than 32 in this case will start to take on a squared off profile and handle funny especially on the road. Also a smaller than 32 tire will be extra prone to rim damage and pinch flats. Put a 700x23 on a rim this wide and the awful results will be visually obvious, that tire will not have a nice rounded profile and will be a handful to ride. The contact patch will actually get narrower when you lean the bike and put the tire on edge as opposed to having it get wider like with a typical rounded profile. This can and probably would result in sliding out in turns. 

Now going the other way whats the widest tire that wont run into obvious problems. This end of the spectrum is more personal choice but there are real concerns with non disc brakes, tubeless burps and tires not wanting to stay on the bead. 

Take the rim inside width and multiply by 2 for a road bike and by 3 for a mountain bike and you get a good guide line as to how wide you can safely go. WTB Wilderness Trail Bikes even lists a guide line as to how narrow or how wide of a tire to mount on a given rim model they make. This calculation gives you a good idea where these number come from. 

So lets take a nice wide 23mm inside width rim in this case. 23 x 3 = 69mm = 2.71" So with a rim this wide a 2.5 DH tire will feel fine. So with a 23mm rim a tire between 1.4" ~ 32mm iso and 2.7" 

Personally my preference for a tire on a rim this size would be 2.25 at a minimum and 2.5 at a maximum because I like a big tire but not so big that it starts to feel squirmy. 

Rim tape should be specific to the profile of a rim. There is not a thick tape is better than thin tape or visa versa argument that holds water. The reason for my question of yellow tape vs thicker tape was to see if there is a consensus on the correct thickness for these relatively new carbon rims. Stans does a good bit of testing on how thick of tape to use but of course they cant test every rim the minuite it comes out. I would at this point hazard to guess that stans is too thin for these new carbon rims. Stans has a great list of which rims need a lot of thick stuff and which ones are better with just a thin

I really wish there was an easy way to measure and come up with a hard fast rule and or formula for tubeless rim strips.


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## clarkalewis (Mar 2, 2004)

hillharman said:


> Some of these catastrophic rim strikes sound like they are happening at lower pressures, which were the result of a tubeless setup that had leaked down...


not the case at all. 40 psi on a hardtail in rough terrain is not subtle. if it had leaked down i would have noticed. i hit the rock very very hard going likely 30 mph and prejumping 10 feet into a 4-foot deep waterbar. i'm 190 lbs and a strong rider. big impact.

i have no idea how you guys ride under 30 psi, it would just be a sloppy mess trying to corner like that, and i'd be smashing my rim constantly.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> So, let me get this straight... Those are the 30mm wide, tubeless 29er's from Light-Bicycle, Nancy Yu?
> 
> And you're running 28c tires on them? So I shouldn't have any problem running 34-35c tubeless CX tires on them, you think?


when did he say 28c tires? :skep: the post you quoted says 40mm.

34*35c on 30mm (OD) rims should be fine. :thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

clarkalewis said:


> not the case at all. 40 psi on a hardtail in rough terrain is not subtle. if it had leaked down i would have noticed. i hit the rock very very hard going likely 30 mph and prejumping 10 feet into a 4-foot deep waterbar. i'm 190 lbs and a strong rider. big impact.
> 
> i have no idea how you guys ride under 30 psi, it would just be a sloppy mess trying to corner like that, and i'd be smashing my rim constantly.


i have no idea how you can stand to ride your mountain bike with 40psi in the tires.
different strokes... 
you can rim strike at almost any pressure if you f**k up bad enough.
sounds like you did just that.
i weigh 205 and plan to ride these rims (when they show up) in the low 20s on very rocky terrain.
:thumbsup:


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## WrecklessREX (Feb 25, 2011)

clarkalewis said:


> not the case at all. 40 psi on a hardtail in rough terrain is not subtle. if it had leaked down i would have noticed. i hit the rock very very hard going likely 30 mph and prejumping 10 feet into a 4-foot deep waterbar. i'm 190 lbs and a strong rider. big impact.
> 
> i have no idea how you guys ride under 30 psi, it would just be a sloppy mess trying to corner like that, and i'd be smashing my rim constantly.


Was that the rear? Any damage to the tire?


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## clarkalewis (Mar 2, 2004)

yes, the rear. the tire is fine (schwalbe snakeskin is pretty impressive). i can get away with 35 psi in the rear on the hardtail most of the time, but need 40 for racing because you're smashing the hell out of the bike. it feels awful, but so does racing.

more suspension and more aggressive rubber allows for somewhat lower pressures.

is the above photo is meant to represent rough terrain? if you're riding that with such low pressure at 205 lbs then you must be going very very slow. i don't get it.


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

bikerjay said:


> Tire sizes and rim tapes- hope this help....


good stuff, thanks for this post! :thumbsup:


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

mattsavage said:


> So, let me get this straight... Those are the 30mm wide, tubeless 29er's from Light-Bicycle, Nancy Yu?
> 
> And you're running 28c tires on them? So I shouldn't have any problem running 34-35c tubeless CX tires on them, you think?


No problem. I ran 40mm Happy Medium for the bulk of my early spring riding on gravel and popped the 28 on yesterday for the summer roads. Went for a 40 miler today and the ride was incredible. Just like a tubular. Yes these are the wide 29er rim.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

bt said:


> is anyone of the consenses that the bontrager rythym strips resist burping better than the yellow tape, which in my opinion only seals the spoke holes?


The Stan's tape is for nothing more than sealing the spoke holes.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

meltingfeather said:


> when did he say 28c tires? :skep: the post you quoted says 40mm.
> 
> 34*35c on 30mm (OD) rims should be fine. :thumbsup:


yup, both are correct. 40mm Happy Medium for gravel season and now 28mm Clement LGG's for the summer road season. I have some entries in the Salsa forum under Lightweight Vaya's when I describe my Vaya Ti that these wheels reside on. When I ordered the rims I had planned on re-lacing my Industry Nine wheels on my JET 9 but decided a rim swap on my King 29er wheels would be easier. Those wheel lived on my Fargo all around bike and now on my new Ti Vaya all around bike.


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## Super66 (Mar 20, 2012)

clarkalewis said:


> not the case at all. 40 psi on a hardtail in rough terrain is not subtle. if it had leaked down i would have noticed. i hit the rock very very hard going likely 30 mph and prejumping 10 feet into a 4-foot deep waterbar. i'm 190 lbs and a strong rider. big impact.
> 
> i have no idea how you guys ride under 30 psi, it would just be a sloppy mess trying to corner like that, and i'd be smashing my rim constantly.


You need to learn to flow,


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

clarkalewis said:


> i don't get it.


pretty much.
if you're ever around Austin, Texas with your 40 psi tires send me a PM and we'll see if you can keep up. I ride rigid SS, if you can believe that.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

clarkalewis said:


> yes, the rear. the tire is fine (schwalbe snakeskin is pretty impressive). i can get away with 35 psi in the rear on the hardtail most of the time, but need 40 for racing because you're smashing the hell out of the bike. it feels awful, but so does racing.
> 
> more suspension and more aggressive rubber allows for somewhat lower pressures.
> 
> is the above photo is meant to represent rough terrain? if you're riding that with such low pressure at 205 lbs then you must be going very very slow. i don't get it.


Agree with others.
40psi is mad.
I am 82kg.
I run 20psi front and 22psi rear.
I race endurance events.


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## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

I hear a lot of 200 lb guys talking about 20ish PSI, also seems really low. Whenever my front tire leaks down to mid 20's I feel like I'm rolling it on hard turns (never let the rear get that low). Weigh 195 nude, probably 210ish with all gear, have non snakeskin RaRas (not tubeless), and I'm scared for tires at 35 PSI. Some of the trails in SoCal can be ridden fast when there isn't really any 'line' per se and there is NO way 20ish PSI would hold up. One trail in particular comes to mind:

Rock It:









It's burlier than it looks in that picture, and Brian Lopes averages 19 mph on it. 
Rock-It all DH

Maybe it's just the RaRa's that fold too easy, but we'll see. I have some Ikon EXO and 2.2 Xkings I'm picking up this afternoon.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Backing up to the Rhythm strips vs Stans tape. Stans tape is somewhat of a joke. It works great on Stans rims because of the rim design being inherently tighter but on "regular" rims it doesn't make the tire tight enough. I've done many, many tubeless conversions with many different brands of non-tubeless rims and you have to beef up the bead seat or the tires are too loose. Lots of people say, "they popped right on with no tools!" Too me, that means the tire is too loose and burping is a distinct possibility. ALL of my conversions require a tire lever to get the tire on. I've put as many as four layers of Gorilla tape(MUCH cheaper than Stans tape and will do countless rim conversions) on a WTB rim to get the tire to be tight and my 260lb sasquatch buddy has been rocking that setup for nearly 3 years

Bottom line for the carbon rims discussed in this thread; one layer of Stans isn't going to cut it. I have one layer of Stans tape and a Rhythm strip(equal to maybe 5 layers of Stans tape???) and my tire isn't going anywhere! I highly recommend the Rhythm strips for these rims. They're cheaper and easier to install than Stans tape so why not grab a pair and try something new? At least use several layers of tape so your tires are tight I don't want to see anyone crunching their rims because they had a blowout.

FYI, I've got 600 miles on my carbon rims and they're still going strong Extremely impressed with them so far!


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

probiscus said:


> I hear a lot of 200 lb guys talking about 20ish PSI, also seems really low. Whenever my front tire leaks down to mid 20's I feel like I'm rolling it on hard turns (never let the rear get that low). Weigh 195 nude, probably 210ish with all gear, have non snakeskin RaRas (not tubeless), and I'm scared for tires at 35 PSI. Some of the trails in SoCal can be ridden fast when there isn't really any 'line' per se and there is NO way 20ish PSI would hold up. One trail in particular comes to mind:
> 
> Maybe it's just the RaRa's that fold too easy, but we'll see. I have some Ikon EXO and 2.2 Xkings I'm picking up this afternoon.


I see a couple of issues.
Light weight race tyres (Racing Ralphs).
Rocky, technical terrain.
Dont go and buy Ikons or Xkings , or if you do, also get some moresuitable tyres as well.
Maybe get hold of some Ardents, Rampages, Hans Dampf or Nobby Nic's.
But just like you cannot see how anyone can ride at 20psi, I cannot imagine riding at 40psi.
That is what I use to set my bead or to ride my MTB for extended distances on bitumen.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

TR said:


> I see a couple of issues.
> Light weight race tyres (Racing Ralphs).
> Rocky, technical terrain.
> Dont go and buy Ikons or Xkings , or if you do, also get some moresuitable tyres as well.
> ...


I'll give a thumbs up to the Nobby Nics (and Ardents). One of the difficulties when discussing p.s.i. is that all gauges are not created equal. What my top end floor pump shows for a p.s.i. is not even close to my digital, battery operated hand held pressure gauge. Even with utmost accuracy, I can't even imagine riding something at 40 psi on a 29"er unless it was a real skinny-mini tire. I wouldn't be able to stop on any dirt or climb. But the question is - does the original poster who mentioned 40 psi have a few tire gauges available to make sure that is really the pressure he is riding? My tires are rock hard at 30 psi, so trying to figure out why and how somebody is riding 40 psi raises an eyebrow from me as well.

The "sweet spot" for me (at 180-185 pounds) on my Dos Niner for Nobby Nic 2.35's tubeless is 23-25 psi rear, 20-22 psi rear on these "cheap Chinese AM rims". This allows me to go fast, and have cushion. If I really want a lot of cushion and maybe am not so concerned with top speed, dropping down about 2-3 psi is a _very comfy_ ride with oodles of traction.

I ride no tire on a 29"er in the 30's unless it is a 1.9/2.0 and I am heading out on pavement like gravel. Maxxis Maxxlite 2.0's in the low 30's tubeless fly on gravel. That's the highest I run. Everything else is in the upper teens to mid 20's. The idea of 40 psi makes my innards and limbs shake in fear....:nono:


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## csmitharchitect (Sep 15, 2009)

On the recommended rim strips, just to confirm these are Bontrager #406892 - correct?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*X2*



meltingfeather said:


> i have no idea how you can stand to ride your mountain bike with 40psi in the tires.
> different strokes...
> you can rim strike at almost any pressure if you f**k up bad enough.
> sounds like you did just that.
> ...


Me too. I might stick a bit more pressure in there if I know I'm going to ride somewhere with lots of pointy rocks, but usually 24/27 psi is my number, and I can probably run less.


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

Just confirmed my final parts selection with Dave at Speeddream. Wide rims weighed in at 385g and 395g. They took over 3 weeks to get here but are flawless. He showed them to another wheelbuilder who promptly ordered a few. I was stuck between dtswiss 240s and p321. Asked Dave about Hadley and he aid they're great but hard to get a hold of...but he did have one rear hub in back. Long story short: I'm going black hadley rear black hope pro II front. Racing Ralph's SS on the way. Only question now is risk burps with stans yellow strips vs bonty strips (which i assume are quite a bit heavier?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

tdoft said:


> Only question now is risk burps with stans yellow strips vs bonty strips (which i assume are quite a bit heavier?


Stans yellow tape is not a rim strip. It's strictly to make the rim air tight (seal the spoke holes, rim joints, etc.) and does little to nothing to seal the bead. The rim strip, which is rubber and has the valve, whatever brand, whether it's Bontragers, Stan's Flows, Freeride, regular, whatever, is what's going to give the bead/rim interface its integrity and prevent burping. 20 layers of tape will do nothing for that interface, you need the compliance of the rubber rim strip being compressed between the bead and the rim to create that tight seal.

Layers and layers of tape do help fill the channel to create a snug fit for initial bead seating, but the integrity is still compromised without a proper rim strip.


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*My wheels should be here this week*

Hadleys and Dt Comps. Do you know where I can get Bontrager Rim strips online? I can't find them.

Thanks.


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## SlackBoy (Mar 7, 2008)

First ride on my rims today. Approx 32psi, I could possibly run a nudge lower, but not too much. I could never run less that 32 on my archs. Not due to burping, but due to tire roll. Vague handling and many many many sketchy moments. But I am a fairly agressive XC rider/racer. I weighed 80ish at the time, sitting much closer to 90 at the mo tho.
With the new rims (the wider 30mm ones) and a single layer of stans tape, TL ready 2.25 racing raplh and 2.25 tl nobbly nic, they bead up easy peasy, fairly tight to get on the rim and takes a concerted push to pop them off the bead when deflated. I'm entirely confident in not burping these bad boys


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

tdoft said:


> Just confirmed my final parts selection with Dave at Speeddream. Wide rims weighed in at 385g and 395g. They took over 3 weeks to get here but are flawless. He showed them to another wheelbuilder who promptly ordered a few. I was stuck between dtswiss 240s and p321. Asked Dave about Hadley and he aid they're great but hard to get a hold of...but he did have one rear hub in back. Long story short: I'm going black hadley rear black hope pro II front. Racing Ralph's SS on the way. Only question now is risk burps with stans yellow strips vs bonty strips (which i assume are quite a bit heavier?


Bonty rim strips are very light. With both of them on my digital table scale, they are so light the weight doesn't even register (get a reading of 0 grams). I used them on my AM carbon rims because I had a pair already and they are so light there isn't any worry of a "weight penalty" for the extra insurance they provide.

BB


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

SlackBoy said:


> First ride on my rims today. Approx 32psi, I could possibly run a nudge lower, but not too much. I could never run less that 32 on my archs. Not due to burping, but due to tire roll. Vague handling and many many many sketchy moments. But I am a fairly agressive XC rider/racer. I weighed 80ish at the time, sitting much closer to 90 at the mo tho.
> With the new rims (the wider 30mm ones) and a single layer of stans tape, TL ready 2.25 racing raplh and 2.25 tl nobbly nic, they bead up easy peasy, fairly tight to get on the rim and takes a concerted push to pop them off the bead when deflated. I'm entirely confident in not burping these bad boys


I don't get any tire roll (weighing about 83Kg) on the Nic 2.25 or Ralph 2.25 tubeless with the psi in the 20's - especially on the wider rims (Flow, Roval Carbon, light-bicycle AM carbon, Blunt, etc...).

On the similar to light-bicycle carbon rims from Specialized (Roval 29 wheels), it's always interesting to see what the pro XC racers run for psi since they do it for a living and have most likey dialed in what works best for them in competition.

_Todd Wells' overall setup doesn't change much from course to course, save for tire models, tire pressures and suspension settings, as he prefers to keep things consistent for familiarity and predictability. "Today I'm going to run a bigger-volume tire - either the Renegade or Fast Trak," he told us on the morning of the Nationals short track race. "It's fast but there are also a lot of loose corners. But [I'll run] lower tire pressure today for sure because we don't go through the rock garden and that was the one section I was worried about flatting on yesterday. I ran* 26[psi] in the back* and *24.5 in the front *- I'll probably go with *22 or 23 in the front* and *24 in the back*."

# Rider's height: 1.88m (6ft 2in)
# Rider's weight: 76.2kg (168lb)_


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Just got off the phone with the wheel builder. Going with black DT Revolutions front and NDS rear and Wheelsmith DB14 DS rear. Wheelsmith black brass nipples all around.

Quick question - are you really building these to 130kgf ds rear with alloy nipples? My builder thought the sharp edge of the spoke hole would cause marring and possible early corrosion, thus brass.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

I built to around 95ish

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Adroit Rider said:


> Just got off the phone with the wheel builder. Going with black DT Revolutions front and NDS rear and Wheelsmith DB14 DS rear. Wheelsmith black brass nipples all around.
> 
> Quick question - are you really building these to 130kgf ds rear with alloy nipples? My builder thought the sharp edge of the spoke hole would cause marring and possible early corrosion, thus brass.


130 is unnecessarily high for 32h rims.
100kgf is sufficient. 110-115 is fine too if you feel like more is better.
I'm not sure how the hardness of cured epoxy compares to aluminum, but I'm not following the logic on corrosion.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

I also used dt-revos EVERYWHERE!! And i weigh 220. Don't notice any issues.

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> Stans yellow tape is not a rim strip. It's strictly to make the rim air tight (seal the spoke holes, rim joints, etc.) and does little to nothing to seal the bead. The rim strip, which is rubber and has the valve, whatever brand, whether it's Bontragers, Stan's Flows, Freeride, regular, whatever, is what's going to give the bead/rim interface its integrity and prevent burping. 20 layers of tape will do nothing for that interface, you need the compliance of the rubber rim strip being compressed between the bead and the rim to create that tight seal.
> 
> Layers and layers of tape do help fill the channel to create a snug fit for initial bead seating, but the integrity is still compromised without a proper rim strip.


Sorry, but you are almost completely full of sh!t. Where do you get this stuff? ut:
A couple of posts is passable, but your BS is like a snowball rolling downhill.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

. Finally got around to getting them No problems with the icon and a floor pump but had to use a co2 for the Aspen on the rear. Built up with 240s and 28 CX-Rays. Pretty easy build. Used one layer of gorilla tape and 3 ounces of cafe latex


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> I'm not sure how the hardness of cured epoxy compares to aluminum, but I'm not following the logic on corrosion.


From Boeing (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/corrosn.html):


> Fiber-reinforced plastics are corrosion resistant, but plastics reinforced with carbon fibers can induce galvanic corrosion in attached aluminum structure.


From Wikipedia on galvanic compatibility (Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


> For normal environments, such as storage in warehouses or non-temperature and humidity controlled environments, there should not be more than 0.25 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For controlled environments, in which temperature and humidity are controlled, 0.50 V can be tolerated. For harsh environments, such as outdoors, high humidity, and salt environments, there should be not more than 0.15 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For example; gold - silver would have a difference of 0.15V being acceptable.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Adroit Rider said:


> From Boeing (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/corrosn.html):
> 
> From Wikipedia on galvanic compatibility (Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


I can google too and I'm familiar with corrosion basics. I still don't understand how marring and corrosion are related.


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

Update on my set after about 500miles of riding and racing:

my set up:

one layer stans tape on each and I have run ikons and ignitors thus far.  Im 180lbs and I run them at 25-27psi usually. Not one burp thus far in 500 miles and I usually ride in very rocky terrain in the northeast. Wheels are still in perfect working order, no issues what so ever to report. Very happy with them.


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## ccornacc (Mar 26, 2007)

Mine sealed with one layer of Stans tape. Doubled up over the valve area, but not all the way around. Ardent 2.4 tire. Took some muscle to get the tire on, so it had a great seal. Sorry you did not have luck.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> I can google too and I'm familiar with corrosion basics. I still don't understand how marring and corrosion are related.


I am no expert, but my builder thought the drilled hole in the Light Bicycle rim, sharper than other carbon rim spoke holes (ENVE molded), might compromise the protective coating on alloy nipples by cutting into the nipple as it seats in the spoke hole.

Do you think alloy nipples are riskier or compromise the lifetime of the build when matched with drilled carbon rims?

FWIW - I am happy with brass nipples. The rims, spokes and hubs are light enough to make for a high performing wheelset. If the brass nipples provide real or perceived longevity it may just get me out of that tricky section just a little faster.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

There is no protective coating on alloy nipples at all. The thin anodizing is only a cosmetic feature.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Adroit Rider said:


> I am no expert, but my builder thought the drilled hole in the Light Bicycle rim, sharper than other carbon rim spoke holes (ENVE molded), might compromise the protective coating on alloy nipples by cutting into the nipple as it seats in the spoke hole.


Not a bad thought... I'm just not sure how much that's going to accelerate galvanic corrosion.


Adroit Rider said:


> Do you think alloy nipples are riskier or compromise the lifetime of the build when matched with drilled carbon rims?


I haven't seen any lifetime effects at this point. Will definitely be watching.


Adroit Rider said:


> FWIW - I am happy with brass nipples. The rims, spokes and hubs are light enough to make for a high performing wheelset. If the brass nipples provide real or perceived longevity it may just get me out of that tricky section just a little faster.


There are opinions on both sides. No doubt brass is easier to work on down the road. I don't see wheel longevity being in play. In general aluminum works fine, is lighter, and comes in pretty colors. Some folks also add that an aluminum nipple is more likely to provide rim protection by failing first if you get a stick in your spokes.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

hssp said:


> There is no protective coating on alloy nipples at all. The thin anodizing is only a cosmetic feature.


wrong.
anodizing is protective, as is the seal that is typically applied afterward.
if it is only cosmetic, then why is silver aluminum anodized as well? 

back on topic:
I ordered my rims 4/25
wider 29er in UD matte
will post up when they arrive. :thumbsup:


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> From Boeing (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/corrosn.html):
> 
> From Wikipedia on galvanic compatibility (Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


Speaking of this. I just went to remove my carbon post from my aluminum frame and it is very stuck. I cannot get it to move. I had treated with fibergrip grease when I put it in there (6-8 months ago. I want to sell the frame and am willing to sacrifice the post. I have soaked it in PB blaster and tried using a pipe wrench on the post to break it free. Any suggestions?


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## Jimmy V (Nov 7, 2011)

utah joe said:


> Update on my set after about 500miles of riding and racing:
> 
> my set up:
> 
> one layer stans tape on each and I have run ikons and ignitors thus far. Im 180lbs and I run them at 25-27psi usually. Not one burp thus far in 500 miles and I usually ride in very rocky terrain in the northeast. Wheels are still in perfect working order, no issues what so ever to report. Very happy with them.


What hubs are you using?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Fett said:


> Speaking of this. I just went to remove my carbon post from my aluminum frame and it is very stuck. I cannot get it to move. I had treated with fibergrip grease when I put it in there (6-8 months ago. I want to sell the frame and am willing to sacrifice the post. I have soaked it in PB blaster and tried using a pipe wrench on the post to break it free. Any suggestions?


Technical FAQ: Stuck seatpost remedies


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Fett;9310025 Any suggestions?[/QUOTE said:


> A couple of flex hones and about 6 hours with the drill is what it took me to remove a fused Easton carbon post from an Intense Spider.


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

Jimmy V said:


> What hubs are you using?


Standard Lefty front, DT240 rear. Sapium laser spoke in for the front, rear is lasers non drive side, DT race on the drive side. I use this wheelset for racing on both my SS and my scalpel, to I went with the DT240 rear because you can change the hub from 142x12 to 135 in 5min.


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## Jimmy V (Nov 7, 2011)

utah joe said:


> Standard Lefty front, DT240 rear. Sapium laser spoke in for the front, rear is lasers non drive side, DT race on the drive side. I use this wheelset for racing on both my SS and my scalpel, to I went with the DT240 rear because you can change the hub from 142x12 to 135 in 5min.


The DT240's are quite spendy. 
Any thoughts/experience with the Novatech D881/D882 which are 15mm / 142x12.?
This is one of their build options.
Or is this no place to compromise?


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

I'll post this again: my setup is 1 layer Stan's yellow tape. Schwalbe Racing Ralph's Snake Skin 2.25. Slime Pro sealant (IMO better than Stan's). I run anywhere from 20-28psi, 175lbs not a single burp or problem yet. Very little air loss over a week. Can't be happier!


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> Technical FAQ: Stuck seatpost remedies


Thanks. And to get things back on topic, my carbon rims arrived on Saturday and am building them up tonight with King hubs and Revolution spokes.


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*Stans strips vs Bontrager*

If I already own stan flow strips, is there any reason to get bontrager strips for this rim? Are they wider, lighter, better?

Thanks,

john


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Me too!*



utah joe said:


> Standard Lefty front, DT240 rear. Sapium laser spoke in for the front, rear is lasers non drive side, DT race on the drive side. I use this wheelset for racing on both my SS and my scalpel, to I went with the DT240 rear because you can change the hub from 142x12 to 135 in 5min.


I just scored a silver Hayes/Hugi/DT Swiss hub off fleabay for $50 landed. I'm going to upgrade that with a 36pt star ratchet. Also, I'm going to de-lace my front wheel for the silver Lefty hub. The ERD is similar to the hoops I already have, so I just think I need to score new brass nipples, and I'm in.

Now, if I can just sell some more parts from the bin to raise $300 for the hoops....

I can sell my old wheelset. I have a matching front wheel to my rear that's coming off from before the Lefty upgrade.  That's gotta be worth a couple of hunnys.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Alpenglow said:


> If I already own stan flow strips, is there any reason to get bontrager strips for this rim? Are they wider, lighter, better?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> john


Well, the Bonty Rhythm strips certainly are lighter. The Stans rim strips are similar to what you would have left over after trimming a ghetto split-tube conversion. They would be about 50+ grams per wheel. The Bonty strips don't even register on my digital scale, so we're talking minimal grams compared to 100+ grams per wheelset between the two.

BB


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## wedge962005 (Mar 11, 2011)

OK, so I'm about to pull the trigger on a set of the wider rims from Light-Bicycle and build them up for my Scalpel 29er. I weight 210lbs and ride in Auburn, CA a lot so some minimal drops, burms, loose rocks and that kind of thing. I'm going with the Lefty hub up front of course and the new TRS+ hub from E13/Chub. That gives me a pretty big flange for strength and I plan on doing DT brass nipples and DT spokes. The question is on spokes. I'm struggling to decide between Champions, Comps or Super Comps.

Does anyone have experience with Super Comps or Comps on a build like this? I'm not looking for bomb-proof heavy but I also don't want broken spokes every two weeks. Thoughts?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

wedge962005 said:


> The question is on spokes. I'm struggling to decide between Champions, Comps or Super Comps.
> [...]
> Thoughts?


Out of those choices, Comps.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

With such a stiff rim is it OK to use narrower than normal spoke gauge. For example going from supercomps to revolutions?


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

wedge962005 said:


> I'm struggling to decide between Champions, Comps or Super Comps.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with Super Comps or Comps on a build like this?


I used Supercomps on my Flows as DT claim them to be their strongest spokes and they are nearly as light as Revolutions. I built my own wheels, so no guarentee of perfection by any means. I am heavy and have pounded them, having not broken any spokes in nearly two years. What the manufacturer says about them is ringing true so far. Good luck with it.


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## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

Motivated said:


> With such a stiff rim is it OK to use narrower than normal spoke gauge. For example going from supercomps to revolutions?


I am trying to decide what to do on this too. My rims are on their way and I am thinking of going for revos instead of comps. I have used supercomps before with success, but i am leaning to the revos this time


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

I believe the bontrager strips are 35 grams each.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

wedge962005 said:


> Does anyone have experience with Super Comps or Comps on a build like this? I'm not looking for bomb-proof heavy but I also don't want broken spokes every two weeks. Thoughts?


Who is building the wheels?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

bt said:


> I believe the bontrager strips are 35 grams each.


My wheels will be done on Tuesday and I will weigh mine before mounting.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Sounds about right*



bt said:


> I believe the bontrager strips are 35 grams each.


I bought a set for my Bonty Mustangs. I never could get the tire to seat on the rim right, and the tire leaked like crazy, so I gave up on tubeless.

IIRC, Velox rim tape is like 15g.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Please confirm spoke length with AmClassic hubs. I used the calculator at bikeschool.com:

Spoke lengths (w/ wide rim, AmClassic hubs):
Front left = 291.4mm. Use 291mm or 292mm??
Front right = 292.2mm. Use 292mm?
Rear left = 290.5mm. Use 290mm or 291mm?
Rear right = 290.1mm. Use 290mm?

"new" standard width rim:
I don't know ERD - just sent email to Nancy. 

I have decided to build as follows:
- new design standard width rim (~21mm inner)
- AmClassic 130/225 hubs (15mm front, 142x12 rear)
- DT revolution spokes all around (should I use supercomps for rear drive side?)
- DT standard aluminum nipples in red. 
- build will be done by Bike+Sports in Austria. 

Comments welcome.


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

Jimmy V said:


> The DT240's are quite spendy.
> Any thoughts/experience with the Novatech D881/D882 which are 15mm / 142x12.?
> This is one of their build options.
> Or is this no place to compromise?


The DT rear is expensive...I was fortunate to get it at quite a discount. I have never used a novatech hubs, but I generally hear good things about them. For me I wanted to be able to go back and forth between my 135mm SS and my 142mm scalpel in 10min and it doesnt get much easier than the 240hub.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Jimmy V said:


> The DT240's are quite spendy.
> Any thoughts/experience with the Novatech D881/D882 which are 15mm / 142x12.?
> This is one of their build options.
> Or is this no place to compromise?


Per Nancy, the D881/D882 are 600g per pair - they must be really stout. This nixed them from my consideration. At that resulting wheel weight I'd rather get AmClassic tubeless wheelset at 1600g, ~ $800. My goal is 1400g wheelset with good stiffness.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Motivated said:


> Per Nancy, the D881/D882 are 600g per pair - they must be really stout. This nixed them from my consideration. At that resulting wheel weight I'd rather get AmClassic tubeless wheelset at 1600g, ~ $800. My goal is 1400g wheelset with good stiffness.


I don't think the American classic wheelset is in the same league as these carbon rims. I have 2 similar wheelsets, one with the American classic rims and one with these carbon rims and the carbon wheels are much stiffer.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Motivated said:


> Please confirm spoke length with AmClassic hubs. I used the calculator at bikeschool.com:
> 
> Spoke lengths (w/ wide rim, AmClassic hubs):
> Front left = 291.4mm. Use 291mm or 292mm??
> ...


My guy ordered one box of Revolutions at 291 and is going to use them on the front and non drive side.

I think you can use the 291 on the entire wheelset. That is one of the knocks on the AC hubs, they were designed to save money on spokes not lateral stiffness.


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## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

My rims arrived today! Actually yesterday but no one was home and they didn't leave them for me. I will snap pictures tonite and then more when they are built.
I went with Supertsar Components hubs and DT comp spokes. Plan on running these with Bontrager rim strips.


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## jacksonj51 (Mar 30, 2012)

Mine showed up on Tuesday. They exceeded my expectations.










32, 3K, Matte


































Laced up with DT Swiss 240 135mmx10 rear (w/36 ratchet), Hope Pro2 15mm TA front, DT Swiss comp spokes, alum nipples. No washers for nipples needed.

Installed the bonty strips which fit perfectly and pumped up tubeless effortlessly


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## Jimmy V (Nov 7, 2011)

jacksonj51, they look so sweet!


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## theHIP (Jan 17, 2004)

they arrived and i am totally impressed. the quality is top notch!

weigh in at 410gm and 420gm - little bummed about that but i needed them quickly and couldn't ask for hand selected versions. Nancy was super helpful and i would not hesitate to do it again!



theHIP said:


> My rims arrived today! Actually yesterday but no one was home and they didn't leave them for me. I will snap pictures tonite and then more when they are built.
> I went with Supertsar Components hubs and DT comp spokes. Plan on running these with Bontrager rim strips.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*3 hoops just arrived...*

3K Matte 29er wide hoopdeehoops

Hoop 1: 397g

Hoop 2: 397g

Hoop3: 385g

Upon quick inspection, they seem pretty nice cosmetically. Note: I did tell them to wait until some lighter ones came off the production line. I ended up waiting 2 weeks to get the 3 hoops mentioned above. I felt like it was worth it so that I didn't end up with 3 in the 400g+ range. No biggy. I only weigh 150 lbs fwiw..

I will be building them up with:

American Classic Hubs
Revolution Spokes (Double crossed in front and rear most likely)
Red nips
Stans 25mm yellow tape

Will post wheel weights once completed.


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm ordering wide hoops (30 ext, 23 "lip", 25.72 int). Are the folks here that are ordering the wide ones getting ones that are SOOOO wide? That's got to be heavy, right? I've seen on this thread that the wide ones have been lighter than the narrow ones? Counterintuitive to say the least.

I'm trying to decide on finish, among other things, and J51, your pics have helped me make my decision about which finish I'm going with. Thank you. I knew I was going to go w/ matte, but the 3K matte looks sweet, and I don't get super-amped on how stuff looks very easily.

I have tried to go tubeless 2 or 3 times on 2 or 3 sets of wheels, with a myriad of tires, and my result have been a mixed bag of failure and bad luck. I plan to stay the course on this set. 

This thread has been invaluable in guiding me in the right direction. I plan to do what I can to help advance the cause.


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## sand0kan (Jun 6, 2010)

After reading all the good experiences about these rims i am planning on buying a set.

To get to the nice trails i have to transport my bike on a bikecarrier. The rims are ratchet to the carrier.

I was wondering if this does any damage to the carbon rims. Anybody using carbon rims and a bike carrier? What is your experience with it?

I mean a system like this:


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

I've use a bike carrier, no problems. It's a Bob Ratchet kind of roof carrier


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## bert-prologue (Aug 25, 2007)

i got 4 rims a few weeks ago. the first pair are built now and ready for the first ride. i swapped them onto some wheels that had stans crest on them. straight swap, same spokes (dt comps x32) but new nipples. the spokes looked a bit too long on the front wheel but they worked out. the rear was almost perfect, with just a little spoke protruding out of the top of the nipple. 
i've used bonty rhythm strips, american classic vavles, bronson front and racing ralph snakeskin 2.25 rear. pumped up with a track pump with a nice loud popping noise as they seated. i'm glad i used the bonty strips, i think the fit would have been loose otherwise.
i'll see how i like these before i decide what to do with the 2nd pair. i have it in mind to build them with xtr hubs and lighter spokes....supercomp/revolution/cx rays???


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Nice!*



bert-prologue said:


> i got 4 rims a few weeks ago. the first pair are built now and ready for the first ride. i swapped them onto some wheels that had stans crest on them. straight swap, same spokes (dt comps x32) but new nipples. the spokes looked a bit too long on the front wheel but they worked out. the rear was almost perfect, with just a little spoke protruding out of the top of the nipple.
> i've used bonty rhythm strips, american classic vavles, bronson front and racing ralph snakeskin 2.25 rear. pumped up with a track pump with a nice loud popping noise as they seated. i'm glad i used the bonty strips, i think the fit would have been loose otherwise.
> i'll see how i like these before i decide what to do with the 2nd pair. i have it in mind to build them with xtr hubs and lighter spokes....supercomp/revolution/cx rays???


Be sure to chime in with your experiences with them.

So, so far...

Apart from a few early on that didn't past the end user (or builder) Quality Control....

1 failure from a curb strike?

Any other failures on the trail?


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

sand0kan said:


> After reading all the good experiences about these rims i am planning on buying a set.
> 
> To get to the nice trails i have to transport my bike on a bikecarrier. The rims are ratchet to the carrier.
> 
> ...


No damage.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> Be sure to chime in with your experiences with them.
> 
> So, so far...
> 
> ...


My failure to buy a set yet.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

SlackBoy said:


> First ride on my rims today. Approx 32psi, I could possibly run a nudge lower, but not too much. I could never run less that 32 on my archs. Not due to burping, but due to tire roll. Vague handling and many many many sketchy moments. But I am a fairly agressive XC rider/racer. I weighed 80ish at the time, sitting much closer to 90 at the mo tho.
> With the new rims (the wider 30mm ones) and a single layer of stans tape, TL ready 2.25 racing raplh and 2.25 tl nobbly nic, they bead up easy peasy, fairly tight to get on the rim and takes a concerted push to pop them off the bead when deflated. I'm entirely confident in not burping these bad boys


Would you attribute the reduced tire roll to the wider rim? I have a big problem with tire roll, especially when running tubeless and think that the narrower Stans 355 (19 mm internal), MMX or Crest (21 internal) may be the problem, These wider rims with( 23 mm internal) seem like the answer. also did you notice a difference in lateral stiffness vs. alloy rims? How about vertical compliance?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

1 pair ordered today. I sold a few things, got some cash in the bike bank, and dropped it on a set of wide 29er rims. I got a Hugi hub ready to go, gonna de-lace my SpeedDisc/Lefty hub wheel for the front. I can probably re-use the spokes, but not the end of the world if I have to buy new ones. 

This is going to free up a set of WTB SpeedDisc/Real Hub wheels to sell on craigslist, or... maybe I'll move that wheelset over to my hardtail and sell the Bontrager Mustang/XT rear/Specialized Stout 9mm Thru-axle wheelset. Either way, I think that will pay for a third or half of the carbon hoops. 

Now, the other missing ingredient is the 36pt star ratchets for the Hugi hub. 

I'm gonna be pimp-rollin' my wheels this summer!


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

My 1st pair of wide 29er rims went so well, I ordered another pair for the single speed. Ordered on May 8th and they were delivered on May 18th...wow! I went 3k instead of UD this time. Compared to my first pair of rims, these are slightly heavier (385/389g vs 401/402g), but the bead and inside rim face is more even and has a nicer finished.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

cytoe said:


> My 1st pair of wide 29er rims went so well, I ordered another pair for the single speed. Ordered on May 8th and they were delivered on May 18th...wow! I went 3k instead of UD this time. Compared to my first pair of rims, these are slightly heavier (385/389g vs 401/402g), but the bead and inside rim face is more even and has a nicer finished.


Is the UD always lighter? Are the weave finishes just an additional cosmetic layer (provides no structural benefit)?


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

Motivated said:


> Is the UD always lighter? Are the weave finishes just an additional cosmetic layer (provides no structural benefit)?


I'm not sure UD is always lighter. Nancy said the 3k is slightly stronger, but I think the different weaves are mostly cosmetic. The 3k does look more interesting than the UD.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

cytoe said:


> I'm not sure UD is always lighter. Nancy said the 3k is slightly stronger, but I think the different weaves are mostly cosmetic. The 3k does look more interesting than the UD.


I went with 3k matte finish. I like the look, and I figure Matte will hide dull spots from racks, and rock marks a bit better.

I'm 205 pounds these days, but I get by with light XC grade kinda stuff. I went with the wider rim for the bigger tire footprint, lower tire pressure and stiffer wheel. I figured I'm still shedding like 60 grams per wheel is good weight savings already. I'm looking to shed weight, but also gain performance.

I bought a small roll of Stan's Tape, and already have some sealant. I might even try tubeless again.


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## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

Hey folks I've got some chris king hubs on the way (20 & 142x12). Obviously I'm building a set of new wheels and I'm considering the wider 29" light-bicycle rim and the new stans arch EX rim.

The carbon rims are lighter and supposedly very stiff, *but I am mainly concerned about the quality of these rims setup tubeless compared to the stans.*

My current stans flow setup seems to be very strong, on more than one occasion I have hit the rim severely (or at least thought I had) and upon inspection no damage, I use anywhere from 2.2 to 2.5 sized tires on my rims and plan to do the same on the chinese carbon rims.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Joel RW said:


> Hey folks I've got some chris king hubs on the way (20 & 142x12). Obviously I'm building a set of new wheels and I'm considering the wider 29" light-bicycle rim and the new stans arch EX rim.
> 
> The carbon rims are lighter and supposedly very stiff, *but I am mainly concerned about the quality of these rims setup tubeless compared to the stans.*
> 
> My current stans flow setup seems to be very strong, on more than one occasion I have hit the rim severely (or at least thought I had) and upon inspection no damage, I use anywhere from 2.2 to 2.5 sized tires on my rims and plan to do the same on the chinese carbon rims.


Having done all sorts of tubeless the past few years (ghetto, suspect, non-advised, NoTubes via Flows and Crests, etc....) I can attest to the light-bicycle AM carbon rims working very well with the Bontrager Rhythm strips. Others report doing fine without the strips, but I went with the plastic strips (they don't weigh much of anything) and mounting a tire (Nobby Nics) required tire irons. Very tight and secure which allowed easy air up with a floor pump. I've been bashing them on my Dos Niner and RIP 9 ever since I got them with no burps or problems. I also have a pair of the Roval carbon wheels with the beefier front hub to compare. Both work extremely well and the light-bicycle (although I don't have a full season or more of use to give full blessing) are worth your consideration for the price. With the Bonty strips, going tubeless seems to be fine and dandy. That being said - I have not mounted up a pair of not tubeless ready tires to compare these carbon rims with that sort of tire (which I know works fine on NoTubes rims).

BB


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

BruceBrown said:


> Having done all sorts of tubeless the past few years (ghetto, suspect, non-advised, NoTubes via Flows and Crests, etc....) I can attest to the light-bicycle AM carbon rims working very well with the Bontrager Rhythm strips. Others report doing fine without the strips, but I went with the plastic strips (they don't weigh much of anything) and mounting a tire (Nobby Nics) required tire irons. Very tight and secure which allowed easy air up with a floor pump. I've been bashing them on my Dos Niner and RIP 9 ever since I got them with no burps or problems. I also have a pair of the Roval carbon wheels with the beefier front hub to compare. Both work extremely well and the light-bicycle (although I don't have a full season or more of use to give full blessing) are worth your consideration for the price. With the Bonty strips, going tubeless seems to be fine and dandy. That being said - I have not mounted up a pair of not tubeless ready tires to compare these carbon rims with that sort of tire (which I know works fine on NoTubes rims).
> 
> BB


Glad to see they're working out for you. I remember you were very skeptical. I have a couple of buds who tried to talk me out of it with they typical fear baiting, and the 'you get what you paid for' line. I'm hoping to prove them wrong.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

So who is selling the latest and greatest FATMAN Clyde worthy wide carbon rim these days, I think I need to lay down some moolah for a set of the stronger 3k weave variety. Also, what is the ERD on these? 603mm, 605mm? I have a Hadley hub with an old Salsa Delgado that could stand to lose a tube and flexyness in the wheelbuild. Rims were used and free on that build, but they just don't hold up well under my weight in rocks, very, very soft rim, dings way too easy.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

RandyBoy said:


> So who is selling the latest and greatest FATMAN Clyde worthy wide carbon rim these days, I think I need to lay down some moolah for a set of the stronger 3k weave variety. Also, what is the ERD on these? 603mm, 605mm? I have a Hadley hub with an old Salsa Delgado that could stand to lose a tube and flexyness in the wheelbuild. Rims were used and free on that build, but they just don't hold up well under my weight in rocks, very, very soft rim, dings way too easy.


If you dented easily some rims, whenever the rims is, you will probably do some cracks on carbon hoops, whenever the brand is... This thing said, these chinease carbon hoops are incredibles!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

mat g said:


> If you dented easily some rims, whenever the rims is, you will probably do some cracks on carbon hoops, whenever the brand is... This thing said, these chinease carbon hoops are incredibles!


I've dented a couple, but none that badly. I'm hoping the bigger air volume will help support things.

Oh man, my Bontrager Mustangs (rim brake) bottom out super easy. Those tall sidewalls mean I have to run a few extra PSI to keep them from pinch flatting.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

RandyBoy said:


> So who is selling the latest and greatest FATMAN Clyde worthy wide carbon rim these days, I think I need to lay down some moolah for a set of the stronger 3k weave variety. Also, what is the ERD on these? 603mm, 605mm? I have a Hadley hub with an old Salsa Delgado that could stand to lose a tube and flexyness in the wheelbuild. Rims were used and free on that build, but they just don't hold up well under my weight in rocks, very, very soft rim, dings way too easy.


I've got the beefed up wide rims running Hans Dampf tires on them, and they offer great protection to the rims, even around 18-20 psi. I've thrown some sizable rocks on to them while riding, but all I got were superficial scratches. If you are really worried, buy 3 or 4 rims and keep a backup. They seem pretty durable, and the width, tubeless performance, stiffness, weight and price put them way over the top. I'm already considering ordering two more rims, even though I don't need them right now, just in case they become hard to get.


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## bert-prologue (Aug 25, 2007)

first ride done.... i don't think there is any possibilty i'll buy alu rims again. at the price of these rims its a fairly cheap performance upgrade. i'm no expert but i know the bike feels better. using the bonty strips, i could tell they were a good fit when i mounted the tyres i have every confidence in them. overall they feel more solid than flows and nearly as light as crests (i have/had both). we'll see how they go long term but, again at this price i'd be happy with a year.


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

RandyBoy said:


> So who is selling the latest and greatest FATMAN Clyde worthy wide carbon rim these days, I think I need to lay down some moolah for a set of the stronger 3k weave variety. Also, what is the ERD on these? 603mm, 605mm? I have a Hadley hub with an old Salsa Delgado that could stand to lose a tube and flexyness in the wheelbuild. Rims were used and free on that build, but they just don't hold up well under my weight in rocks, very, very soft rim, dings way too easy.


Sounds like you need the real deal ENVE AM rims. From my experience, I'm pretty sure they'll take whatever beating you can give them.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

2TurnersNotEnough said:


> Sounds like you need the real deal ENVE AM rims. From my experience, I'm pretty sure they'll take whatever beating you can give them.


Sure... just put it on Fo's credit card for me, will ya? :thumbsup: Enve's are nice, but I'ma cheep biatch.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*True...*



RandyBoy said:


> Sure... just put it on Fo's credit card for me, will ya? :thumbsup: Enve's are nice, but I'ma cheep biatch.


Enves may be nicer, but if I held out for Enves, I would never own carbon rims.

... maybe when I win Lotto, I'll get some Enve rims.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

pimpbot said:


> Enves may be nicer, but if I held out for Enves, I would never own carbon rims.
> 
> ... maybe when I win Lotto, I'll get some Enve rims.


This is where I'm at. Huge respect for Enve as a company. I use their handlebars. I'd love to use their rims, and I'm sure they are as bombproof as can be, but they blow my wheel budget out of the water. I sprung for CK hubs for my Chinese carbon build... maybe one day those hubs will see Enve rims... after I get a real job.


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

I guess I forgot to put the facetious smiley in there.

I think Fo's credit cards would implode if there was ever a charge from Enve on them. At least until he rode a set and couldn't live without them.

After I finish up the 2 bike projects that I have going right now, I hope to build up a set of the wide Nancy rims for my SS later this summer. I can't afford another set of Enve wheels. I hope Enve is working on a way to get their production costs to the point where they're only 2x as much as the Light-Bicycle rims and still maintain the construction quality. I think makes the decision to get the US made rims more likely.


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

I came!!! Er...i mean my wheels came. 3D matte looks great and both rims were under 400g. I went with the beefy Hadley hub but still came in at 1642 for the set with tape and valves. Review to follow after first ride!


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

^^^^^
Really?


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

tdoft said:


> I came!!! Er...i mean my wheels came. 3D matte looks great and both rims were under 400g. I went with the beefy Hadley hub but still came in at 1642 for the set with tape and valves. Review to follow after first ride!


did you get the Clyde plus Nancy wheels at 420 grams each? What about the rest of the build for the wheels to get it to 1642 gr.. That is outstanding, I wonder what a set of 240S hubs would build up at?


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

2TurnersNotEnough said:


> I guess I forgot to put the facetious smiley in there.
> 
> I think Fo's credit cards would implode if there was ever a charge from Enve on them. At least until he rode a set and couldn't live without them.
> 
> After I finish up the 2 bike projects that I have going right now, I hope to build up a set of the wide Nancy rims for my SS later this summer. I can't afford another set of Enve wheels. I hope Enve is working on a way to get their production costs to the point where they're only 2x as much as the Light-Bicycle rims and still maintain the construction quality. I think makes the decision to get the US made rims more likely.


Some more details on the Wide Nancy please, 5 W's and price, please. A linkie?


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

RandyBoy said:


> did you get the Clyde plus Nancy wheels at 420 grams each? What about the rest of the build for the wheels to get it to 1642 gr.. That is outstanding, I wonder what a set of 240S hubs would build up at?


Mine built up w/ 240s hubs were 1565g :thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

RandyBoy said:


> Some more details on the Wide Nancy please, 5 W's and price, please. A linkie?


it's only been mentioned (and linked) about 300 times, Randy!!!


OK, fine... here
:thumbsup:


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> it's only been mentioned (and linked) about 300 times, Randy!!!
> 
> 
> OK, fine... here
> :thumbsup:


yeah, and 56 pages to look through.... you'd think by now, someone would have made the link a sticky? :eekster: Seems the order form has no provision for clyde rims with extra material for 120kg loading?

I've been toying with this idea of building a set, and I'm not a pro wheelbuilder like you, so I don't look this thread up every day. But it seems now enough have built up wheels with good results for me to now step in and give them a try.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

RandyBoy said:


> yeah, and 56 pages to look through.... you'd think by now, someone would have made the link a sticky? :eekster: Seems the order form has no provision for clyde rims with extra material for 120kg loading?
> 
> I've been toying with this idea of building a set, and I'm not a pro wheelbuilder like you, so I don't look this thread up every day. But it seems now enough have built up wheels with good results for me to now step in and give them a try.


my first pair just arrived today... they are holding them hostage at the PO until I show up, but I will be posting pics and impressions soon. hopefully no q/c issues like some have seen. i'm going to measure and document the profile for comparison to stan's and UST (which they claim compatibility with).
now that i've got a bunch of miles on my "just for fun" tension balancing build on my 355s, I'm going to do the same with these on my front wheel (3x NDS, 1x heads out DS).


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

120kg/mm is ewaaayyyyy more than you need. I weigh 230in gear and built mine to 95ish. Just fine. With dt-revos no less

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

RandyBoy said:


> yeah, and 56 pages to look through.... you'd think by now, someone would have made the link a sticky? :eekster: Seems the order form has no provision for clyde rims with extra material for 120kg loading?
> 
> I've been toying with this idea of building a set, and I'm not a pro wheelbuilder like you, so I don't look this thread up every day. But it seems now enough have built up wheels with good results for me to now step in and give them a try.


These wheels are easy to build, the rim is so stiff, not like a crest so you don't have to deal to the extreme with tension. To have 420g rims, aks Nancy! She's always working! I don't know if she already readed all these 1300+ post like me! I have one 420g rim because Nancy asked me if it mind me to have a heavier rim. During this week of production(1 month ago) it seems that every rims was heavier. I suspect that these add 20g are resin extras in my rim, not an additional layer of carbon. Just to mention that this particular 420g rim was free because of an issue on my previous 24 holes rim. I think I'm the only one who have ordered an 24 hole rim in this thread. I builded a rear wheel with 24x competition spokes with a cheap dirty flea paid 40$ on ebay tuned to 275g. The wheel weight is 827g, the replacement rim (witch I asked to be build on novatec front hub, nice bladed spoke 28h) came with an heavier rim at 707g!!! So, this wheelset is at 1534g for less than 400$! The rear had an issue on beads but still rideable as Stan's have minimal bead on some rims...

Today, I had the opportunity to ride side by side my old bike (with my average alloy wheelset) and my new rig with light bicycle carbon AM rims. The difference is awesome, the average alloy rims feeling is very soft and flexy compared to the direct drive of a wide carbon hoop.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

Mfeather, i am curious to hear your impressions! 

This is what happened to my narrow ones at the start line of the Sea Otter classic. Suspecting a defect that failed at ~50psi, pump said 38ish didn't know it was off until later.

I had a super narrow 1.8 and weigh 230 in gear so run 38-40 in the rear at races


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

DukeNeverwinter said:


> Mfeather, i am curious to hear your impressions!
> 
> This is what happened to my narrow ones at the start line of the Sea Otter classic. Suspecting a defect that failed at ~50psi, pump said 38ish didn't know it was off until later.
> 
> I had a super narrow 1.8 and weigh 230 in gear so run 38-40 in the rear at races


not 100% what i'm looking at. if you could add description/clarification i'd appreciate it.
i'm taking these rims with a grain of salt. known quality, USA-made carbon is 6x the price, so it's sort of a too-good-to-be-true situation, though balanced against the long time success of chinese carbon road rims vs. the known issue of unregulated (even if by brand q/c) overseas production.
the thing is, we do have experience with chinese manufacturing, which is consistent with the strictly capitalist manufacturing model when there is no oversight or q/c, if not even a bit limit-pushing even in that context.
i've been wooed (and mostly disappointed) by off-brand, chinese-manufactured goods in other sectors, paricularly chinese-manufactured, large-diameter steel pipe and equipment parts (i'm a civil engineer who specializes in municipal infrastructure). they show up not just at interbike, but at our trade shows too (WEFTEC and AWWA). I'd be really surprised if american brands don't have protections in place for off-brand marketing of similar/identical designs. unfortunately, i also wouldn't be surprised by chinese manufacturers ingnoring those agreements as a cost of business. wouldn't be the first time... 
we'll see...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

p.s. i can tell you that when my client's money (usually $5M-$10M per contract) is on the line for parts with 20-year minimum design life (50 year expected), i recommend almost without exception the more expensive option, which is US-made ductile iron pipe and cast iron fittings and US- or German-made (in 99% of cases) industrial mechanical equipment. i will caveat that by saying the cost differential is nowhere near 6x... but that could easily be due to the money involved as well as the rigorous oversight of and liability for the professionals (me) who recommend these things to bureaucrats.
i guess the bottom line is determining "when it counts," because the "get what you pay for" cliche is not without a basis in experience, which is generally where akin "rules of thumb" are founded.


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

@Dukeneverwinter:

That is odd. I can see the hairline crack happening due to 50psi perhaps, but what the heck are all of the perpendicular markings from?


----------



## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

It's not hairline. It's all the way through the rim bed. And about 1.5 feet along the circumference. All the diagnoal lines are fibers that seperated from their brothers. 

You could not tell with a tire and rim tape that anything was wrong. It just exploded before the racexh and I tossed a tube in it. During the race it acted exactly like it always did. Super stiff. By pushing on the inside wall of the rim you could flex it after it cracked

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

DukeNeverwinter said:


> It's not hairline. It's all the way through the rim bed. And about 1.5 feet along the circumference. All the diagnoal lines are fibers that seperated from their brothers.
> 
> You could not tell with a tire and rim tape that anything was wrong. It just exploded before the racexh and I tossed a tube in it. During the race it acted exactly like it always did. Super stiff. By pushing on the inside wall of the rim you could flex it after it cracked
> 
> Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2


i would investigate the warranty process and post up for the benefit of others

this forum (and possibly others that I am unaware of) are the _de facto_ consumer q/c for these types of products.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

Purchased from bikeempowerment. Already have replacement rim built up. We/he is still waiting for word back from the factory. I think, but do not know for sure that they are the same rims as the 21mm light-bicycles ones. But they weight the same ~420ish and have all the same dimensions. Looks like a duck, must be a duck....

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

cytoe said:


> Mine built up w/ 240s hubs were 1565g :thumbsup:


American Classic 15mm thru axle front hub, 240s 10mm thru axle rear, alloy nips and CX Ray spokes = sub 1500gr:thumbsup: 1480 IIRC...


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

Dave Thomas built my wide (but no Clyde) 32 hole light bikes rims with a Hadley hub rear, hope pro II evo front hub, sapim laser spokes and alloy nipples . I think he said tension on rear drive side and front breaking side was about 95 kg/mm. 1642g. Dt 240s would've been lighter by about 100 grams but rotational weight will be the same, engagement will be instantaneous, and my wallet is about 150 bills heavier


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Arthur254 said:


> On-One will be selling carbon rims and prebuilt wheelsets in early 2011. News article here. The complete tubeless wheelset is projected to cost a bit over $1000, in other words not too much more than a single ENVE rim. I couldn't find the pricing info on the cheaper non-tubeless rim, but IIRC it was guesstimated at around $200 a rim


They're late.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Arthur254 said:


> On-One will be selling carbon rims and prebuilt wheelsets in early 2011.


ROFL

good one... :smilewinkgrin:


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## sand0kan (Jun 6, 2010)

Sorry to ask but could not find it right away...what width rim tape do you need for the wider 29-er rims.

Is 25 mm sufficient?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

sand0kan said:


> Sorry to ask but could not find it right away...what width rim tape do you need for the wider 29-er rims.
> 
> Is 25 mm sufficient?


yes


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## bert-prologue (Aug 25, 2007)

@lenny7. yes really. rims arrived, been built into a great set of tubeless wheels. i'm happy and predict i'll stay happy with with them. simple


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> it's only been mentioned (and linked) about 300 times, Randy!!!
> 
> 
> OK, fine... here
> :thumbsup:


Can one also order the tubeless Valve Stems with the rims from Nancy?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

RandyBoy said:


> Can one also order the tubeless Valve Stems with the rims from Nancy?


Just get a pair of the NoTubes valve stems. Your LBS should have them in stock.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

My two came in at 393.4g & 385.6g
I got UD matte and they seem pretty well finished. the 23mm inside width is great.
they do not have the UST bead lock. I will likely run them with the Bonty strips.
they are incredibly stiff.
i will get an ERD this evening and shoot some pics.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> I will likely run them with the Bonty strips.


Super curious as to how this develops.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

GTR-33 said:


> Super curious as to how this develops.


It develops just fine. Others in the thread have recommended them and are using them (led to my choice to use them as well). Others are running fine without the Bonty strips, just using yellow tape and valves.

I had the Bonty Rhythm strips on my Blunts (which these rims replaced), so it was easy to just move over. Snug fit for sure, beads snapped in and all has been well.


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

you guys are gonna put the hurt on my checkbook. thinking of getting a set for a bike i don't yet own and what the hell, might as well get some for the roadie machine while i'm at it. :thumbsup::nono::thumbsup::nono::madman:


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## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

Finally bit the bullet and ordered a set.

Wider 29er rim from light-bicycle, going to be laced to some CK hubs! I asked "Nancy" to do a quality check of the fibers so hopefully they arrive in a few weeks and all is well!

Any wheel builders here have any insight to spoke tension for carbon rims?


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## AndreyI52 (Feb 4, 2009)

*Crude statistical failures.*

I have followed this thread with interest & have been considering getting a set for my bike (but the 26 wide versions).

I am concerned about the reliability of these rims so decided to do some rough statistics on failures based purely on this thread.

I counted 3 failures total since the start of this year (refer posts 14, 1197, & 1310). I did a search for 'bought' in this thread - 21 results.

My conclusion is that if you purchase these wheels you will have a 14.3% (3/21X100=14.3) chance of failure in less than 6 months.

I will delay buying a set for a while until some more solid statistical data comes in to show that these rims are more reliable!


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

I think you're proving the point that there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics ;-). 

Having been on my set for a month and some quite rough races with many sharp rocks I'm happy to see how they held up, despite ripping 2 tire cases. I do fully agree on QC issues, so I checked mine when I get them and kept a close eye when I built them. These rims are far from perfect, but for the price they have been a huge upgrade for me. 

Having said that, waiting is probably the wisest.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

AndreyI52 said:


> I did a search for 'bought' in this thread - 21 results.


Should we challenge your supposed _evidence_ that resulted in your conclusion that only 21 people in this thread have purchased the rims?

Example of challenging the evidence: I don't recall using the word _"bought"_ in my posts for the pair I own. But perhaps a search would confirm or disprove that...


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

AndreyI52 said:


> My conclusion is that if you purchase these wheels you will have a 14.3% (3/21X100=14.3) chance of failure in less than 6 months


lol, that is actually what i consider a pretty positive analysis of the rims considering the normal rate of complaints to praise found on forums
these rims def arent for you, go buy some enve's if you want carbon hoops


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

AndreyI52 said:


> I have followed this thread with interest & have been considering getting a set for my bike (but the 26 wide versions).
> 
> I am concerned about the reliability of these rims so decided to do some rough statistics on failures based purely on this thread.
> 
> ...


An awesome buying strategy Chicken Little.
Suggest you use the same method using spoke and broken.
You will never use a spoke again.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*If you're going to do statistics you should include and estimate of the error*

Normally in a counting experiment where the observations are uncorrelated the error terms are n^0.5 so the error on a sample of three is ~1.73 or almost 58%. So it is equally likely that the failure rate in this limited sample could be in the range of 6% to 23% any more decimal places are overstating your accuracy.

I would say you need a bigger sample. Maybe you could ask Nancy about warrantee replacement counts and total sales.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

What is the lightest build with these rims? I calculate 1460g with my planned parts - AmClassic hubs / revo's. I had hoped to equal the AmClassic Race wheelset weight but looks like will be ~ 50g over.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*.. for me...*



Motivated said:


> What is the lightest build with these rims? I calculate 1460g with my planned parts - AmClassic hubs / revo's. I had hoped to equal the AmClassic Race wheelset weight but looks like will be ~ 50g over.


... so dang light that I'm not worried about weight weenieing out any other parts of the build, so I can build better with no weight gain.

:thumbsup:

By my math, I'm losing around 100g per wheel if I re-use my front hub, spokes (same ERD) and use the Hugi hub I scored off fleabay.

But, gaining a whole lotta stiffness, plus gaining a bigger tire footprint for better traction through lower tire pressure..

So I'm not just dropping 1/3 pound of rotating weight.. that is nice, but I'm gaining a better performing wheelset.

Win Win, and Win.... but, lose $360 landed... but Win.... sell old wheelset for $150. :thumbsup:

Anyway, I should see my hoops next week.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

Motivated said:


> What is the lightest build with these rims? I calculate 1460g with my planned parts - AmClassic hubs / revo's. I had hoped to equal the AmClassic Race wheelset weight but looks like will be ~ 50g over.


1340g, post #955


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

The ERD of my rims is 603mm


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

post 1331:


AndreyI52 said:


> I did a search for 'bought' in this thread - 21 results.


post 1330:


Joel RW said:


> Finally bit the bullet and ordered a set.
> 
> Wider 29er rim from light-bicycle, going to be laced to some CK hubs! I asked "Nancy" to do a quality check of the fibers so hopefully they arrive in a few weeks and all is well!
> 
> Any wheel builders here have any insight to spoke tension for carbon rims?


you can do better, A-52.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Factor in that there are 3 individual wheel failures, and if 21 people purchased, that would be 42 wheels, maybe more.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I never used the word "bought" and have nearly 700 miles on my set of flawless Nancy Wu Light Bicycle 29er wide beefy even though I'm not beefy rims.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

What's the opinion on using spoke nipple washers with these? 

The reason I ask, is that this rims' ERD are 2mm less than my current rim, and I'd rather not have to buy new spokes. I can probably get away with 1mm difference without washers. 

Also, washers are used to improve the seat of the nipple against the rim... distribute the load around a bit. 

It's going to add a bit of weight, but from what I see it's only like 5g per wheel.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

red5jedi said:


> 1340g, post #955


You win.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

AndreyI52 said:


> I am concerned about the reliability of these rims so decided to do some rough statistics on failures based purely on this thread.
> 
> I counted 3 failures total since the start of this year (refer posts 14, 1197, & 1310). I did a search for 'bought' in this thread - 21 results.
> 
> My conclusion is that if you purchase these wheels you will have a 14.3% (3/21X100=14.3) chance of failure in less than 6 months.


It would be worth adding a few more keywords to your search: "ordered", "received", "delivered" etc as "bought" by itself will miss out quite a few relevant posts.

My light-bicycle.com narrow XC 29er carbon rims are still going strong. As at 24 May 2012 they've done 1490 miles with no issues. On yesterday's ride my SRAM X-0 rear derailleur snapped around the front carbon fibre pivot point, throwing the derailleur into the spokes, ripping off a jockey wheel, bending some spokes and buckling the wheel. Although the carbon rim is buckled it doesn't appear to have been damaged and no spokes were pulled out.

I had my front light-bicycle.com 28H narrow XC 29er carbon rim rebuilt a while ago. I replaced the original Rock Shox Sid 29 QR fork lowers with 15mm thru axle fork lowers. The front hub is now an Extralite Hyperfront 28H 15mm hub. It's only got the standard bearings, rather than the ceramic option but it still feels very smooth and runs freely. The wheel was built with DT Super Comp straight pull spokes, alloy nipples and a Tune DC15 Rock Shox thru axle instead of using the heavier Rock Shox Maxle Lite.

Pictured below: My current front wheel - light-bicycle.com narrow XC 29er carbon rim, Extralite Hyperfront 28H hub, DT Super Comp spokes and alloy nipples.

The broken carbon fibre pivot point on my SRAM X-0 rear derailleur. The stone is just there to hold the derailleur open so you can see where it broke.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

That is it.
Not buying one of those derailleurs.
First time I have read a thread mentioning them and it is broken.
That is a 100% failure rate.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

@WR304, do you perhaps know the weight of your narrow rims, and what are you going to do with the broken derailleur?


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

TR said:


> That is it.
> Not buying one of those derailleurs.
> First time I have read a thread mentioning them and it is broken.
> That is a 100% failure rate.


hahaha


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## AndreyI52 (Feb 4, 2009)

AndreyI52 said:


> I have followed this thread with interest & have been considering getting a set for my bike (but the 26 wide versions).
> 
> I am concerned about the reliability of these rims so decided to do some rough statistics on failures based purely on this thread.
> 
> ...


My above post was not meant to be taken too seriously & probably deserve the negative reps I received for the post!

You guys are passionate about these rims. They have a lot to offer & I hope they work for everyone who bought / acquired / got / purchased / procured them. 

I admire that the Light Bicycle manufacturing company has taken great initiative to invest in the manufacture of a potentially great product (especially the wider carbon rims). I also applaud the fact that they are willing to sell the product direct to consumers at a great price.

But I still stand by statement that I am not willing to jump in just yet. I ride a 6" travel dual suspension bike & the risk is just too great from my perspective.

By the way, I ride a carbon fiber framed mountain bike with carbon handlebars, so I am not a carbon hater. I just want to buy stuff that is proven to be reliable & is manufactured to decent consistent levels of quality.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

^^^ none taken, by me at least. And giving neg rep for such a post is just sad. Good thing that negative mtbr rep doesn't make ya slower on the trails


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

I now have seen two pairs of AC Race wheels taco under very standard riding conditions. I regularly jump my 5.5in 29er and plow over anything in the trail with my carbon hoops. Zero problems so far. But the best is when someone else rides my bike and within 2 min they can't believe the difference the wheels make and the immediately decide to order a set. 
Also, there are quiet a few locals that have them that are not on MTBR. Failure rate shouldn't even be considered. All you are doing is prolonging the pure enjoyment of riding with these rims! Go buy, order, procure, purchase, etc these rims!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

AndreyI52 said:


> My above post was not meant to be taken too seriously & probably deserve the negative reps I received for the post!


Neg rep is a bit over-the-top, but your "analysis" is ridiculously shortsighted. Nowhere do you indicate that it's a joke or not to be taken too seriously, so it just sounds like you're jaded and using hack science to trying back it up.


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## JudgeMorris (Jun 22, 2005)

Not to change the subject but,.... I got my tracking number!
w00t!!!


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

No negative rep from me as I thought the actual numbers were funny, I mean come on making any conclusion from a sample that small is ridiculous. But then again a lot us find statistics to be rediculous in general. If I were not broke and unemployed and did not have a perfectly good set of wtb laser disc trail wheels I would be all over these rims.



AndreyI52 said:


> My above post was not meant to be taken too seriously & probably deserve the negative reps I received for the post!
> 
> You guys are passionate about these rims. They have a lot to offer & I hope they work for everyone who bought / acquired / got / purchased / procured them.
> 
> ...


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

AndreyI52 said:


> My above post was not meant to be taken too seriously & probably deserve the negative reps I received for the post!
> 
> You guys are passionate about these rims. They have a lot to offer & I hope they work for everyone who bought / acquired / got / purchased / procured them.
> 
> ...


I prefer to tell the poster what I think rather than anonymously give neg reps.

your first post was just more added clutter to an otherwise good thread.

your reply to your own post was a little better and somewhat informative.


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## ccornacc (Mar 26, 2007)

I beat the snot out my carbon rims and just recently on porcupine rim with a 5in 29er with no issues. I am 195 all geared up. Scratched the sides a bit, but nothing else. I vote to give them a try like everyone else.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yeah, srsly*



figo said:


> ^^^ none taken, by me at least. And giving neg rep for such a post is just sad. Good thing that negative mtbr rep doesn't make ya slower on the trails


I got negative repped once for a post I made suggesting I'm a crossdresser.  It was a bad joke, and directed at myself, so WTF... Some folks have no sense of humor, and are really quick with that button.


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Mine are on their way as well...... I went pre-built "ready-to-ride"


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## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

AndreyI52 said:


> My above post was not meant to be taken too seriously & probably deserve the negative reps I received for the post!
> 
> You guys are passionate about these rims. They have a lot to offer & I hope they work for everyone who bought / acquired / got / purchased / procured them.
> 
> ...


Clearly a joke.

But at the same time, I honestly can't imagine that these rims could fail. Every day I try harder and harder to destroy them. When I put them in the truing stand, the spokes laugh at me while I strain to hear the rub that just isn't there. This is after swapping the wheels onto a hard tail and doing genuine AM riding.

I can't speak for the rims that are failing, but the ones I purchased are rock solid and I'd recommend them to a Clydesdale DH racer on a fully rigid aluminum frame.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yeah...*



Bear Spleen said:


> Clearly a joke.
> 
> But at the same time, I honestly can't imagine that these rims could fail. Every day I try harder and harder to destroy them. When I put them in the truing stand, the spokes laugh at me while I strain to hear the rub that just isn't there. This is after swapping the wheels onto a hard tail and doing genuine AM riding.
> 
> I can't speak for the rims that are failing, but the ones I purchased are rock solid and I'd recommend them to a Clydesdale DH racer on a fully rigid aluminum frame.


My take on them is... from the posts here and one guy I know who breaks EVERYTHING who bought a set of these, and he's been beating on them for a couple months with zero issues.

They're solid.

But, anything can be broken in an accident. Seems to me that if there was a defect, it would probably make itself known before the initial build, or soon after when stressed for the first time on the trail. That is more of a feeling based on posts here, and what little I know about carbon fiber, than anything based on fact. I'm an uneducated electrical engineer (as in, I don't have my degree, but I know the math, specs and laws to figure stuff out) but understand some mechanics and physics.

On a related note, I bought a Sun Inferno 23 29er rim to replace that Crest noodle on my Singlespeed... as a cheapo replacement. The thing is way stiff (but not ridden on a trail yet to confirm in the real world).

How this relates to the carbon rim is... man! It is much easier to build a nice stiff rim than a noodley rim. I laced and tensioned that thing up, and hardly had to do any tweaking to make it round and straight. Easy Peasy build.

I suspect the carbon rims will be similar to build.

Speaking of which... what is the word on those spoke nipple washers? I was going to buy a bag of those oval ones like Sapims. Is there room inside the rim bed for washers? Either I install washers, or I'm sure my existing spokes will be too long by a couple of mm's. Each washer is 0.5mm thick, so one washer under each nipple should take up enough to get away with it.

I'd rather not buy $65 worth of spokes unless I have to.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Wheels built:
3k, 32h, w/ brass nipples, dt revs front and nds read, wheel smith db14 drive side, 1540g.

Bontrager rhythm strips, 44g each.

Maxxis Icon EXO 2.2 seated with no levers, no soap, and no sealant. Adding sealant now.


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## JudgeMorris (Jun 22, 2005)

Surfdog93 said:


> Mine are on their way as well...... I went pre-built "ready-to-ride"


That's the way I went, as well (with D881/D882 hubs).
I am a little unsure about what the minimum tire size is that I should run on these rims. I read somewhere in this thread that we should use at least 2.25 with the wider rim? 
What do you'll think?


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

JudgeMorris said:


> That's the way I went, as well (with D881/D882 hubs).
> I am a little unsure about what the minimum tire size is that I should run on these rims. I read somewhere in this thread that we should use at least 2.25 with the wider rim?
> What do you'll think?


I had not considered smaller tires for myself.
Except for my Renegade 1.95 which I tore the sidewall in yesterday, all my tires are 2.2 or larger. That said, I'm going to treat these rims to some brand new RR's....need to order today.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

This is about the 26" All mountain rims, how durable are they for hucking and rocky terrain?


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## chairthruster (Dec 17, 2004)

WR304 said:


> My light-bicycle.com narrow XC 29er carbon rims are still going strong. As at 24 May 2012 they've done 1490 miles with no issues..


Now THAT is a high mileage training schedule 

Props to the guy a few pages ago who posted the "statistical analysis" that was the funniest thing I've read recently. thanks for the laugh


----------



## rasputindk (Jun 3, 2006)

Only ridden them for a week, so about 10 hours on them so far which is not very much. My sentiments match the rest, they are stiff and seem very solid, a hoot to ride! Built them up with revos and it was a walk in the park compared to olympics and similar rims, they are much stiffer and mine were pretty much round out of the box. If you can live with the risk of receiving bad rims, however small it may be, this is a really good deal. 
Can't imagine riding a soft Stans wheelset again, the instant feedback and precise tracking is addictive


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

giantdale said:


> @WR304, do you perhaps know the weight of your narrow rims, and what are you going to do with the broken derailleur?


I didn't write the rim weights down anywhere. A little under 400g each I think.

I replaced the rear derailleur with another SRAM X-0 rear mech, new gear inner, fitted a new chain and trued the rear wheel today. The wheel straightened up ok and the carbon rim appears to be fine.

Although the chain didn't break yesterday I'll always replace it if there's been a major drivetrain failure or a serious jam. It's safer that way as a weakened chain can superficially look ok but then break without warning, usually under high torque uphill where you don't really want a failure. I've had that happen a few times in the past and it's worth avoiding.

I'm not totally sure why the derailleur broke at that time. It was about a year old. I was riding along a fairly open woodland track and think that I might have got a stick caught in the drivetrain. It's usually quite obvious when that happens though. I'm putting it down to experience as just one of those things. The main issue was that I was 20 miles from home. I had some Connex chain links but no chain splitter to shorten the chain in order to make it a single speed. I ended up having to ring a friend who lived a few miles away to get a lift home.

Pictured below: The rear derailleur immediately after it broke. You can see the carbon rim in this picture too.


----------



## wedge962005 (Mar 11, 2011)

*My build*

Well step one is done, my rims arrived from Light-Bicycle. They were great to deal with and fast, much faster than I was in making the decision. I got two rims for heavier riders, wider 29er versions at 416 and 418 grams.

They arrived the other day and weighed exactly as expected.

My other parts are on the way. Build as follows:

Cannondale Lefty Front Hub (32)
E13 TRS+ Rear Hub for 12x142 maxle
Sapim CX-Rays (white)
DT Swiss Alloy Nipples (green)
Matte UD Rims.
Lacing 3x

These things should be freaking stout when I'm done!


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

chairthruster said:


> Props to the guy a few pages ago who posted the "statistical analysis" that was the funniest thing I've read recently. thanks for the laugh


The amazing thing is that is how most people utilize and analyse statistics.

If stats don't give error bars I assume that they are trying to decieve, and generally go against.

My rims arrived after being held by UK customs for 2.5 weeks!!!!

They were both sub 400g, slightly worrying as they are supposed to be the clyde proof ones.
There was one minor fault on a bead section which I was not impressed with.
However a quick e-mail to Nancy will get one in the post to me, even though she says it is cosmetic. All I need is too give her the serial no on the rim.

Just wish I had not glued the tyres on before reading that!
Can't be arsed to peel them off, as it will probably be OK.

Gone for a few rides, and they are so light it is scary. My bike did not used to be this nimble!

The additional control I get in the air is impressive. With my old rims, when the bike was in the air it would not move, now I can play.

All in all I would classify as a positive experience.

I don't expect things to be perfect at this price, I just do expect them to make up for faults if there are any, and they seem too.


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## dhalsey (Aug 10, 2010)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

dhalsey said:


> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


great. thanks!


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Hey there Cave Giant, you are gonna have to change your signature now that you got weight weenie wheels!!!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Adim_X said:


> Hey there Cave Giant, you are gonna have to change your signature now that you got weight weenie wheels!!!


If these rims survive the CaveGiant's riding and flying - I think that will be a big :thumbsup: for the integrity of the carbon rim product from light-bicycle. Good to have him on board testing the product out...

BB


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

CaveGiant said:


> Just wish I had not glued the tyres on before reading that!


Do what now?


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

DFYFZX said:


> Do what now?


wondered that myself...assumed he meant sealant not tubular?


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## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

hey folks, whats the go with bonty rhythm strips vs stans vs anything else? I've got a wider 29 rim on the way and will be converting it tubeless.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Joel RW said:


> hey folks, whats the go with bonty rhythm strips vs stans vs anything else? I've got a wider 29 rim on the way and will be converting it tubeless.


The Bonty Rhythm strips fit the AM carbon rims perfectly and make for a nice snug fit. Probably not needed for some tires, but for a secure/safe interface - it's hard to beat.

Find 'em here: Rhythm strips

You'll want this version....

406892 9.99 Black 29 Rhythm Tubeless Rim Strip-Symmetric 622 x 21

Sealing strips weigh 35g each and valves weigh 8g each

NoTubes strips weigh more and cost more - so the Bonty strips make economical and weight weenie sense.:thumbsup:

My wheelset with the AM rims weighed 1530g before adding the strips. I really couldn't get the Bonty strips alone to show up as any sort of weight on my digital scale for the pair. I don't know where the 35g come from for each as my pair show up as 0g on my scale (a scale that reads plenty of other lightweight items such as my 18g set of Bontrager foam grips). Yet the strips show up as 0g. Regardless of what the weight penalty is to use them - they make things nice and snug as well as allowing tubeless ready tires to air right up with a floor pump.

The rims have turned my RIP 9 into about as AM as I want to go (light/sturdy rims, Nobby Nic 2.35 all arounders) and still kept the bike at 28 pounds for a size XL Niner with the beefy tires.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

BruceBrown said:


> If these rims survive the CaveGiant's riding and flying - I think that will be a big :thumbsup: for the integrity of the carbon rim product from light-bicycle. Good to have him on board testing the product out...
> 
> BB


I am 6ft 2', 250 myself. My set is all built, just waiting on my frame and some homebrewed components to finish a pimped out carbon SS. I will let you guys know how they work out. I got the extra carbon in the wheels, but I am pushing over the boundaries. But I ride light, haha


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

THESE RIMS ARE WAY STIFF! Only one ride down, 16 miles of gravel, pavement and singletrack. I will be submitting a comprehensive review after a few more rides.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Oh boy. I smell a new wheel set for my Yelli Screamy...


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Is there any reason to wait for the (narrower) 21mm inner width rim? Light-Bicycle is currently reworking the design and that's why it's not on their website. The wide rim (23mm inner) can be had at less than 390g, so weight is no longer much of a differentiating factor.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Motivated said:


> Is there any reason to wait for the (narrower) 21mm inner width rim? Light-Bicycle is currently reworking the design and that's why it's not on their website. The wide rim (23mm inner) can be had at less than 390g, so weight is no longer much of a differentiating factor.


This question is too subjective. What do you want performance wise? What width of tires do you plan to run? Most of us seem to be stoked that we can get lightweight wheels that are wide.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Adim_X said:


> This question is too subjective. What do you want performance wise? What width of tires do you plan to run? Most of us seem to be stoked that we can get lightweight wheels that are wide.


Low weight is not subjective. The 21mm inner width rim was ~20g lighter, but now that advantage seems to be narrowed or zeroed. Although we don't know the weight of the new 21mm inner width rim. Effect of rim width may be subjective. I know I won't go back to 19mm inner width rims, but am happy with 21mm. I've never ridden 23mm, so have no experience, thus the question. I typically ride racing ralph 2.1's on a variety of trails from alpine fire roads to really rooty forest trails.


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

I am currently having a set of the wider 26 inch rims made to be laced up to American Classic disc hubs. I have some Velocity spoke plugs that I plan on running with Bonty rim strips. For spokes I will be using DT Champion 1.8-2.0 gage spokes with red anodised nipples and red AC valve stems. The rims are in 3k matt with the logo looking similar to a mix of Roval and Enve rims. I'll post pictures and ride quality as soon as they're done.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

sbrdude1 said:


> I am currently having a set of the wider 26 inch rims made to be laced up to American Classic disc hubs. I have some Velocity spoke plugs that I plan on running with Bonty rim strips. For spokes I will be using DT Champion 1.8-2.0 gage spokes with red anodised nipples and red AC valve stems. The rims are in 3k matt with the logo looking similar to a mix of Roval and Enve rims. I'll post pictures and ride quality as soon as they're done.


No reason to run veloplugs with the Bonty strips unless you just want to add weight.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

BruceBrown said:


> The rims have turned my RIP 9 into about as AM as I want to go (light/sturdy rims, Nobby Nic 2.35 all arounders) and still kept the bike at 28 pounds for a size XL Niner with the beefy tires.


Assuming the frame can take it, would you trust these rims to hit 4' - 6' jumps?


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Assuming the frame can take it, would you trust these rims to hit 4' - 6' jumps?


I have been ~4ft in the air on my Stumpy EVO numerous times with zero issues. If I had bigger jumps to tackle I would not hesitate. They feel amazing in the air and solid when landing.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Assuming the frame can take it, would you trust these rims to hit 4' - 6' jumps?


That I cannot answer at the moment. I'm just 5 weeks out from a nasty endo which tore my neck muscles, separated the right shoulder, chipped 2 teeth, cracked a rib, etc... which sort of prevents me from taking the RIP in the air at the moment while I am in healing up mode.

But I've had no problems on my other similar carbon AM rims (Rovals) on my other bike. In fact, it was a jump at the end of a race that I miscalculated in a moment of _cross-eyed sprint to the line or else poor decision making_ that led to the crash after I was a few feet in the air. In that crash I came down on the front wheel with full force. Hard to tell what happened, but something up front flexed enough to bend my disc brake rotor. I'm pretty sure some of my other wheels (Crests, Flows) would have ended in a big taco with the force I hit, but the carbon rim didn't even blink at the force.

Based on that and the similarity in performance I feel with the light-bicycles carbon AM rims - I would say they should be available for take off and landing. My shoulder and neck simply couldn't take it at the moment as they are struggling and shouting back at me loud and clear with every small crack in the sidewalk on my morning dog walks - let alone out on the dirt.


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## Ferrozone (Feb 8, 2012)

For 29" wider carbon rims from light-bike and circus monkey hdw2 32h hubs, i wonder what should be length of the spoke? Can i use sapim laser 260mm ?


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

BruceBrown said:


> That I cannot answer at the moment. I'm just 5 weeks out from a nasty endo which tore my neck muscles, separated the right shoulder, chipped 2 teeth, cracked a rib, etc... which sort of prevents me from taking the RIP in the air at the moment while I am in healing up mode.


My body started aching just by reading that...Get well soon!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Ferrozone said:


> For 29" wider carbon rims from light-bike and circus monkey hdw2 32h hubs, i wonder what should be length of the spoke? Can i use sapim laser 260mm ?


Having built a bunch of 29er wheels myself, I can tell you that you are looking at spokes in the 290-296mm range. Most of my wheels ended up 290mm on one side, and 292mm on the other, but sometimes 291 and 294mm.

You really have to measure the hub flanges (diameter and position) and rim ERD carefully and run the numbers through a spoke calculator program. Do a search. There are a bunch of free online spoke calculators. I usually use two different ones and see if they come up with the same numbers before I plunk my cash down for spokes.

... and I checked into those Circus Monkey hubs. I'm interested in a set, maybe. But... you really have to measure those flanges yourself. The published drawing of those hubs did not match up to the picture. I emailed the seller on then, and he was all, 'oh, you're right! I'll have to publish the right drawing'. So, I wouldn't trust it without taking my own measuring calipers to them.

Check out the wheelbuilding page on sheldonbrown.com for some good info.


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## Ferrozone (Feb 8, 2012)

pimpbot said:


> Having built a bunch of 29er wheels myself, I can tell you that you are looking at spokes in the 290-296mm range. Most of my wheels ended up 290mm on one side, and 292mm on the other, but sometimes 291 and 294mm.
> 
> You really have to measure the hub flanges (diameter and position) and rim ERD carefully and run the numbers through a spoke calculator program. Do a search. There are a bunch of free online spoke calculators. I usually use two different ones and see if they come up with the same numbers before I plunk my cash down for spokes.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information but i think this will be much more difficult than i think i will look to sheldonbrown.com. By the way i have ordered circus monkey hubs today and tonight i will make the payment for the rims, i think aproximatley 15-20 days later they would be here. Do you prefer safim laser or dt revo spokes?


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

bquinn said:


> I have been ~4ft in the air on my Stumpy EVO numerous times with zero issues. If I had bigger jumps to tackle I would not hesitate. They feel amazing in the air and solid when landing.


A six foot gap is not all that big, done smoothly most rims will easily take that since its really not a lot of force. Now the real question is what happens when you come up wrong and back case hard, or come up way too fast and sail 12 feet going all the way over the transition of said 6 foot gap and land really hard. I suspect this may even be survivable for these carbon rims.

My biggest doubt is running tubeless through rock gardens. Low tire pressure I.e 20 -25 front 30 rear, miscalculation and the rim takes a hit that would pinch a tubed set up and you feel the rim impact a rock not crazy hard but hard enough to feel. My current rim wtb laser disc trail both 26 and 29 on another bike handles this pretty well but the 26" version is just a hair over 500 grams.

If these things prove to be as tough as a laser disc or other 500 gram conventional wide rim and are 100 grams lighter, have more even spoke tension, and less flex they are major winners and a worthy up grade.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I think that would not be a problem...*



Dictatorsaurus said:


> Assuming the frame can take it, would you trust these rims to hit 4' - 6' jumps?


... from what it seems, hitting a big pointy rock or a curb square in the ballz at speed might be a problem, tho. 

I mean, I don't know, but from the one real world field failure I've seen in this thread, it looks like carbon doesn't put up with being hit with all force in a tiny spot like that.

Then again, I'm not sure aluminum rims fare any better. I've put bad flat spots on my fair share of alloy rims, being 210 pounds, ride rocky stuff, and bunny hop curbs... sometimes missing them. :madman:



Ferrozone said:


> Thanks for the information but i think this will be much more difficult than i think i will look to sheldonbrown.com. By the way i have ordered circus monkey hubs today and tonight i will make the payment for the rims, i think aproximatley 15-20 days later they would be here. Do you prefer safim laser or dt revo spokes?


I've never used Sapim spokes, personally. I have a friend who swears by the X-Rays, but those are like $3 or $4 each.

I've always used DT Swiss 14/15ga double butted, and on occasion Wheelsmith. Both are solid choices, but I just like the way DT Swiss hourglass tapering looks. I used to use alloy nipples back when I was more of a weight weenie, but I started having issues with breakage and stripping. Alloy saves like 20g per wheel or so, but it is a bit more of a PITA.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> My body started aching just by reading that...Get well soon!


Ditto. Yikes...get better soon!


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Need input on wheel build...load bearing spacers at nips?*

My wheelbuilder is a pretty respected builder in the San Diego community and has been for a long time fwiw..

He asked me today if anyone here used "load bearing spacers" on their carbon wheel builds. Essentially, they are brass rings that go over the nipple inside the rim to help evenly load the tension to prevent breaking/cracking of the carbon rim.

He says that tons of companies (not all) do this including Campy etc...

I appreciate that he wanted me to ask instead of just proceeding like most guys would w/o checking..

So..anyone know if these were used or need to be used on the Nancy wide 29er hoopdies??

IDEAS?? Thanks!


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

I was planning to use these washers, despite nancy saying they weren't needed. Somehow the washers weren't in my order so pressed for time I build my set without. Interested to hear of people who did use washers, especially the oval sapim ones


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Omg omg omg!!!!*

I just got my rims. Dayum. Two weeks from order to doorstep.

Now, close inspection, weight, measurements and buying a set of spokes to build the rear wheel. I'm waiting for some nipple washers to build the front because I'm just directly replacing another hoop that is 2mm bigger ERD.

First thing I noticed was that the sidewalls are pretty dang short, like Stan's rims, but not quite that short. They oughta do well in not pinch flatting, unlike my Bontrager Mustang rim brake rims.

Oh, and I need to score some 36pt star ratchets for a Hugi 98 hub. No way I can stay sane with this 18 POE crap.


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

I don't think the oval Sapim washers will fit through the nipple holes in the inner wall of this rim as the washers are fairly wide.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

BTW....

395g and 393g :shocked: :thumbsup:

I inspected the bead and bed of the rim. There are a couple of very minor flaws, if I were looking for nits to pick, but I don't think they will interfere with the bead seal if I go tubeless, or will be seen once the tire is on.... or be seen at all without micrometer eyes.

*edit*

Puurrrdy!

3k weave



And much wider than my Crest rim (and lighter... and stiffer, I hope)


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

bikerjay said:


> A six foot gap is not all that big, done smoothly most rims will easily take that since its really not a lot of force. Now the real question is what happens when you come up wrong and back case hard, or come up way too fast and sail 12 feet going all the way over the transition of said 6 foot gap and land really hard. I suspect this may even be survivable for these carbon rims.
> 
> My biggest doubt is running tubeless through rock gardens. Low tire pressure I.e 20 -25 front 30 rear, miscalculation and the rim takes a hit that would pinch a tubed set up and you feel the rim impact a rock not crazy hard but hard enough to feel. My current rim wtb laser disc trail both 26 and 29 on another bike handles this pretty well but the 26" version is just a hair over 500 grams.
> 
> If these things prove to be as tough as a laser disc or other 500 gram conventional wide rim and are 100 grams lighter, have more even spoke tension, and less flex they are major winners and a worthy up grade.


I raced on these rims with specialized sworks renegade 1.8's. Several shots to the rims with no apparent damage. These suckers are tough.

I have put approx 200 miles on these wheels and still love them. I actually prefer these to my roval control SL carbon wheels. These seem to have less of a problem with rolling with the wider rims. I will continue to try to destroy these by racing with tiny tires and see what happens.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I have been on a couple of rides on my new wide carbon rims.

They are as stiff as my Kris Holm Freeride rims, but less than half the weight.

The acceleration is amazing, the bike is now really fast and nimble.

I have to remember that although the bike can now go twice as fast my skill level is the same.
Thankfully every time i move I get reminded, hope my leg is fine by next weekend (it was a good crash).


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> And much wider than my Crest rim (and lighter... and stiffer, I hope)


Have you weighed the Crest rim next to it just to see? The NoTubes website says 380g...

Curious since I have a King/Super Comp/Crest wheelset at home I'm tempted to swap into these. I'm deployed right now but snagged a King/Enve set on eBay for something reasonable (well...it was right before I read this thread anyway) and I have a feeling I won't like the Crests for long after riding the Enve's upon return in August :-D

(I also have a feeling that if I get these rims I won't like having spent the money on the Enve's...even though it was a smoking deal...argh...)

The Crests are stupid fast uphill but really whippy and don't track as well compared to my Arches in corners or downhill. Not like they're unrideable or something (I prefer them overall) but I'm liking the sound of Crest weight + Arch stiffness...


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Again..*

Sorry, but are you guys having the wheels built with washers (load bearing) used at the nipples to help distribute the stress or not?

Feedback appreciated...


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

if you want to go for it, if not dont, no right answer....probably cant hurt, just a little extra cost and weight but most people havent been using them


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*From what I gather...*



rydbyk said:


> Sorry, but are you guys having the wheels built with washers (load bearing) used at the nipples to help distribute the stress or not?
> 
> Feedback appreciated...


... they are not needed, and from what somebody else posted, even the Sapim oval style nipple washers are too big to fit through the spoke holes to get in place anyway.

Too bad. I got a bag of them coming, and my front Lefty wheel is basically going to be a hoop transplant from another wheel with a rim ERD 2mm bigger than this carbon hoop. If I can't washer it up one mm or so, I have to get new spokes.

I got my hoops, and yes, the inner spoke nipple holes are pretty small. I think I'll have a tough time getting washers through there. We'll see in a few days when the washers show up.

In the meantime, I'll probably just build my rear wheel without the washers.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

rydbyk said:


> Sorry, but are you guys having the wheels built with washers (load bearing) used at the nipples to help distribute the stress or not?


I've built 16 of the chi-bon rims thus far. I would have been up to 24 of
them, but 8 of the 24 that have arrived here were unusable--they lacked a
section of bead clinch, thus they'd never hold a tire.

The 16 that I've built have been acceptable as far as tension balance. Not
great, not terrible, just sort of 'meh'.

I see no benefit to using a washer between the nip and rim--there have been zero failures reported via cracking rims or spoke pull-throughs.

I'd like to thank Bruce Brown for the idea to use Bontrager Duster TLR strips. Snap to fit (literally), aired up with a floor pump, and I have not yet been able to burp or peel any tire with this 'system'.

Cheers,

MC


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

TXNavy said:


> Have you weighed the Crest rim next to it just to see? The NoTubes website says 380g...


Most 29er Crests I've weighed are in the ~370g range.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Thanks to all who provided feedback regarding the nipple washers:thumbsup: Pos rep to all..


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## rwitte (Apr 6, 2004)

*Sokes?*

Sorry if this has been covered...I've read many of the pages, but not all. What spokes are folks using with these rims? I'm certain quite a variety, but what seems to be the leading choice? And I'm not really talking brands...DT/Sapim/WS...but more like style...supercomp/race/revs/lasers/cx-ray/etc. Thanks!


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

Whatever floats your boat/Wallet. I was going to use pillar triple butted' but got a better deal on dt-revos

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

mikesee said:


> I've built 16 of the chi-bon rims thus far. I would have been up to 24 of
> them, but 8 of the 24 that have arrived here were unusable--they lacked a
> section of bead clinch, thus they'd never hold a tire.
> 
> ...


Thanks MC.. The "bad" rims were before they got the QC dialed in right? Hopefully their latest (last 6 weeks or so) rims have been better... Any idea?


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

rwitte said:


> Sorry if this has been covered...I've read many of the pages, but not all. What spokes are folks using with these rims? I'm certain quite a variety, but what seems to be the leading choice? And I'm not really talking brands...DT/Sapim/WS...but more like style...supercomp/race/revs/lasers/cx-ray/etc. Thanks!


I just asked this same question in a different thread...probably should have just asked it here in the eye of the storm. But on a "teach me something" tip, do you guys find yourself using lighter spokes than usual when building up crabon rims? Why/why not? For example, if I am DT Comp 3x kind of guy, can I get away with using a lighter spoke without sacrificing the dreamy stiffness these rims are famous for? Yes, I am looking for a free lunch.


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## JonathanM (Jun 23, 2009)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Assuming the frame can take it, would you trust these rims to hit 4' - 6' jumps?


They better! Also, I throw 4-6 foot jumps at my Bonti Rhythm Elite (29) a few times a week. They only get a little wobble when I throw in the 15-20 foot gap that my Rumblefish simply has no business on.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

JonathanM said:


> They only get a little wobble when I throw in the 15-20 foot gap that my Rumblefish simply has no business on.


Pics or it didn't happen.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Hey..you guys ever take these rims off any sweet jumps?


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## JonathanM (Jun 23, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.


Fair enough. Here is a good view of someone else doing it.










Here is a terrible phone picture of me doing the same on my 2012 rumblefish.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

JonathanM said:


> Fair enough. Here is a good view of someone else doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is this another Big Foot sighting shot?  Just kidding...looks really fun!!


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

rydbyk said:


> Hey..you guys ever take these rims off any sweet jumps?


lol


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## Bob12676 (Sep 10, 2008)

Shipping is getting faster! I ordered Saturday the 19th of May, but I didn't respond to the address verification e-mail from Light Bike until the 22nd. I wasn't home to sign for them, but USPS tried to deliver them yesterday. 8 days to get them from China to Michigan is amazing, not to mention that it was over a holiday weekend. Crazy, I ordered hubs from Chain Reaction and spokes from CBO (California) all on the same day as the wheels, the wheels are here and I'm still waiting on everything else. I'm bummed out though because I won't have a chance to get to the post office until Friday to pick them up. Funny how that works, I wasn't expecting them for another week and now the next 2 days will kill me.

Update: The hubs arrived last night (10 days) from CRC. Making the spokes, which are coming from half as far away and with no customs delays, the last remaining puzzle piece.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

well, get ready to possibly wait a while for your hubs...ordered my front hub from chain reaction and it took about a month, whereas wiggle took a little less than 2 weeks for the same hub for another build (both in the UK)


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## nmanchin (Oct 30, 2009)

Has anyone built them up with 28 holes. I'm thinking that might be a nice combo for for a rigid 29er.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

nmanchin said:


> Has anyone built them up with 28 holes. I'm thinking that might be a nice combo for for a rigid 29er.


A rigid 29"er with carbon wheels? Ouch....


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## nmanchin (Oct 30, 2009)

ha. I know. hoping to get a little more compliance with fewer spokes. I'll be running 2.35 tubeless anyway.


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## kcaz (Nov 2, 2004)

nmanchin said:


> ha. I know. hoping to get a little more compliance with fewer spokes. I'll be running 2.35 tubeless anyway.


^^^^ Exactly what I'm thinking. I have a feeling though it'll be a rough ride. Keep us posted.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

I'd say low profile carbon rims will ride better than alu rims because of carbon's damping properties (taking spokes out of consideration)?


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

Update on my rims...rear cracked on 7th ride. Still under warranty, so they're sending me a new one. Cracked on bead, but I never felt a hard hit, not even hard enough to pinch flat if I had been running tubes (running tubeless). I've pinch-flatted tires on metal rims without denting or dinging the rim, so was surprised to find this rim cracked. Front seems fine so far.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

nmanchin said:


> Has anyone built them up with 28 holes. I'm thinking that might be a nice combo for for a rigid 29er.


I've had my 32h carbon rims on my rigid 29. Didn't ride any different than the P35's, but they handle much lighter. You are looking in the wrong places for compliance.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Ha!*



meltingfeather said:


> Most 29er Crests I've weighed are in the ~370g range.


Oh, Yikes!! No wonder it was such a noodle under my 205 pound behind (er, or front... I had it on front only). I thought I weighed it and it came up at 420g or so, but I'm probably just mixing up a few things in my head. Wouldn't be the first time. 

Anyway, no matter. It's off the bike right now. Somebody just gave it to me for free, and now I know why. Dude is as big as I am. I replaced it with a Sun Inferno 23 bought from the LBS for $45. Much better rim... at least to build. I haven't put it on the bike yet. Just in just building it and stressing the spokes, I can tell it's pretty dang stiff for an XC 460g kinda rim, better than the DTSwiss X470.. at least as far as I can tell.

I got two rides on the Crest29er before the nipples loosened up. I never could get it properly tensioned and straight at the same time anyway. Not very confidence inspiring, I can tell you that.


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

Cracked like this?
diglloyd The Wind In My Face - Easton EC90 XC Ballistic Carbon Fiber 29er Tubeless-ready Wheelset - Easton EC90 XC Wheelset - Wheel Failure Out of the Box


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

rockinrod42 said:


> Cracked like this?
> diglloyd The Wind In My Face - Easton EC90 XC Ballistic Carbon Fiber 29er Tubeless-ready Wheelset - Easton EC90 XC Wheelset - Wheel Failure Out of the Box


that guy deserves what he gets


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## mtbkr678 (Mar 10, 2004)

Ordered my complete set today 32 hole, matte UD finish with red 811 hubs and red nipples. I will post pictures when they arrive.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> I've had my 32h carbon rims on my rigid 29. Didn't ride any different than the P35's, but they handle much lighter. You are looking in the wrong places for compliance.


I agree. Compliance in rims is def not where you should be looking.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yeah....*



bt said:


> that guy deserves what he gets


Defect happen from time to time. Wah. I'd be moderately annoyed about it, but I wouldn't go so far as to demand that Easton mounts tires on the rims and inflates them to see if they hold air. It's not as if a short in the wiring harness caused his O2 tank explode halfway to the moon, nearly killing everybody and ruining his moon landing attempt.

that guy came across as being kind of dickish about it. His LBS probably groans a bit when he comes through the door. :skep:


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## nmanchin (Oct 30, 2009)

bquinn said:


> I agree. Compliance in rims is def not where you should be looking.


The difference between a set of I-9's with alloy spokes and Stan's with steel spokes is hugely noticeable. One is more compliant and makes for a much better ride. Sorry if I can tell the difference but don't tell me I'm wrong.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Per Nancy the standard 21mm inner width rim is available again, but weighs in the 410g to 420g range. There seems to be no point then in the standard width rim since it weighs more than the wide rim. Maybe it's stronger. Anyway, I want the lowest weight so this ends my deliberation and I've ordered the wide rims.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

nmanchin said:


> Has anyone built them up with 28 holes. I'm thinking that might be a nice combo for for a rigid 29er.
> ...
> hoping to get a little more compliance with fewer spokes. I'll be running 2.35 tubeless anyway.





giantdale said:


> I'd say low profile carbon rims will ride better than alu rims because of carbon's damping properties (taking spokes out of consideration)?


It's still possible to buckle an MTB carbon rim. If you're hard on wheels then staying with solidly built 32 hole rims front and rear with strong spokes would probably be worth doing.

I've got a 28 hole light-bicycle.com carbon rim on the front and a 32 hole light-bicycle.com carbon rim on the rear. That's purely because I had a 28 hole hub that I wanted to use.

Don't expect the light-bicycle.com carbon rims to provide any sort of comfort benefit over aluminium rims. If anything they're going to give you a noticeably harder ride. Even on my Specialized Epic 29er changing the rear rim from the original Roval alloy rim to a light-bicycle.com carbon rim resulted in a harsher feel when the rear shock's brain was set to full firm (full firm rear brain means the rear suspension is locked out on small bumps, the rear shock only opens for medium to large bumps). More of the bumps and vibration could be felt coming up through the saddle than before, which wasn't what I'd hoped for.

The carbon front rim didn't make much difference as I have my fork fully active normally, meaning that the front suspension always does an effective job of smoothing out most bumps.

Some carbon parts to consider if you're thinking about comfort would be to get a carbon railed saddle and a flexing carbon seatpost such as a Syntace P6 Hiflex or Niner RDO. I've been really impressed just how much of a comfort difference a 7x9mm carbon railed saddle makes over the same model of saddle with titanium rails. It's like having the tyre pressure even lower than normal and takes out a lot of trail buzz. If I'd realised how worthwhile the comfort gains are I would have got a carbon railed saddle a long time ago.

Specialized Romin Pro carbon rail saddle
Specialized Bicycle Components

Syntace P6 Hiflex seatpost
Syntace

Niner RDO seatpost
Niner Bikes | The Big Revolution

.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Well, on the other hand...*



WR304 said:


> It's still possible to buckle an MTB carbon rim. If you're hard on wheels then staying with solidly built 32 hole rims front and rear with strong spokes would probably be worth doing.
> 
> I've got a 28 hole light-bicycle.com carbon rim on the front and a 32 hole light-bicycle.com carbon rim on the rear. That's purely because I had a 28 hole hub that I wanted to use.
> 
> ...


A wider rim, especially with low sidewalls can be run at lower tire pressure with the same support and pinch flat resistance as a narrow rim with more tire pressure.

Well, initially, this wheelset is going on my full susser, so harshness shouldn't be an issue for me. I may swap this to my hardtail for the occasional XC race, so we'll see how that goes.


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

Was there ever any consensus on availability of/where to get different endcaps for the Novatec hubs? Or more info about the quality of those hubs in general. I'm sorry to say I did read through the whole thread, but I may have missed it.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Feldybikes said:


> Was there ever any consensus on availability of/where to get different endcaps for the Novatec hubs? Or more info about the quality of those hubs in general. I'm sorry to say I did read through the whole thread, but I may have missed it.


Yep, do a search. IIRC, the consensus was cheap, light and good hubs, but the pawls weren't exactly a 'last forever' kinda part. As in, I thought I read that somebody who ran them for a couple years took his hub apart to inspect for wear, and it looked pretty trashed in there.

I'm not sure if rebuild parts are available for them. I'm sure bearings are the standard kinda cartridges, but the pawls may not be around.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Feldybikes said:


> Was there ever any consensus on availability of/where to get different endcaps for the Novatec hubs? Or more info about the quality of those hubs in general. I'm sorry to say I did read through the whole thread, but I may have missed it.


almost 100% sure the Transition Bikes Revolution hubs are rebranded novatec D881/882 hubs. They sell pretty much all the possible axles/adapters on their website.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> A wider rim, especially with low sidewalls can be run at lower tire pressure with the same support and pinch flat resistance as a narrow rim with more tire pressure.
> 
> Well, initially, this wheelset is going on my full susser, so harshness shouldn't be an issue for me. I may swap this to my hardtail for the occasional XC race, so we'll see how that goes.


I run my tyres at 20psi front and rear for offroad use. That works fairly well usually.

In terms of rims and comfort apparently wooden rims are supposed to give a smooth ride as they're soft. I've never tried any though. You can actually get 26" MTB carbon re-inforced wooden rims, although there isn't a 29er MTB option:

Weight Weenies • View topic - Wooden RENOVO R1 (Update: June 1)

Ghisallo 26" wooden MTB rim (& the optional ultimate carbon option)
Ghisallo Wooden Rims Eshop Mountain Bike - pneumatic - Pneumatic Rims - Rims wooden rims, mudguards, handlebars, frameworks

Ghisallo Wooden Rims Eshop Ultimate Optional for Pneumatic rims - Pneumatic Rims - Ultimate optional - Rims wooden rims, mudguards, handlebars, frameworks
.


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## WrecklessREX (Feb 25, 2011)

nmanchin said:


> Has anyone built them up with 28 holes. I'm thinking that might be a nice combo for for a rigid 29er.


I've been thinking about doing the same but I am positive I will damage the rims from running low tire pressures.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

WrecklessREX said:


> I've been thinking about doing the same but I am positive I will damage the rims from running low tire pressures.


damage from too low of a pressure will happen regardless of spoke count


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## Yeroon (May 9, 2012)

I plan on going 28h front 650b when they get them into production. I want the longer travel of the 26" bikes but big wheels, so 650b for me. I'm easy on wheels so far, I'm fond of picking smoother lines - parts get expensive, and injuries suck 

There was discussion on spoke tension not making a difference on wheel stiffness, does this mean if I'm 150lbs ready to ride i should be ok with 28 spoke revo's? whats the downside to the spindly spokes, besides spoke wrap? I figure i'll make a set of pliers to clamp to the spoke with wooden blocks and a hole drilled to make a "shaft clamp" for tightening, and two paint marker dots to check for windup.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Yeroon said:


> There was discussion on spoke tension not making a difference on wheel stiffness, does this mean if I'm 150lbs ready to ride i should be ok with 28 spoke revo's? whats the downside to the spindly spokes, besides spoke wrap? I figure i'll make a set of pliers to clamp to the spoke with wooden blocks and a hole drilled to make a "shaft clamp" for tightening, and two paint marker dots to check for windup.


I don't use pliers. Just correct for wind up when turning the nipple and counter-rotate so the dot ends up where it started. I'm not a fan of less than 32 spokes regardless of rider weight. The sacrafice in reliability isn't worth the negligible weight reduction.

I built my wheels with Lasers (similar to Revo) at 115kgf.


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## WrecklessREX (Feb 25, 2011)

clewttu said:


> damage from too low of a pressure will happen regardless of spoke count


I know, I've had to straighten the bead out on my sun ringle chargers a couple of times. They happen to be 28h and I have been considering swapping the rims for carbon but at least I can tweak the aluminum back in shape. The carbon rim might or might not get damaged from the light strikes but I don't want find out the hard way, yet.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> I don't use pliers. Just correct for wind up when turning the nipple and counter-rotate so the dot ends up where it started. I'm not a fan of less than 32 spokes regardless of rider weight. The sacrafice in reliability isn't worth the negligible weight reduction.
> 
> I built my wheels with Lasers (similar to Revo) at 115kgf.


Good advice here. ^


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## Yeroon (May 9, 2012)

ok, will do, 32/32 it shall be. Plus i'm sure it'll make hubs/hoops easier to replace in the future. 
Thanks for the suggestions, now i just want them to hurry up and make this 650b rim. 

Yeroon


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## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

*Rims arrived! Gloss/3K*

This is the wider 29" rim, I had a good inspection of the fibers at night under head lamp and it seems fine, there are a few minor cosmetic layer faults like the resin being slightly thicker in some areas where less carbon was placed, I think structurally the rim is fine though.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Yeroon said:


> now i just want them to hurry up and make this 650b rim.


would like that too, but it won't be happening anytime soon iyam


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

Any reviews of the fully built wheelsets? Any thoughts on the hubs they offer with them? Looking for a 32h Standard QR axle setup.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

mikesee said:


> I've built 16 of the chi-bon rims thus far. I would have been up to 24 of
> them, but 8 of the 24 that have arrived here were unusable--they lacked a
> section of bead clinch, thus they'd never hold a tire.
> 
> ...


What flavor of tire are you using with these rims? TLR or plain ol tires?

Thanks.


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> almost 100% sure the Transition Bikes Revolution hubs are rebranded novatec D881/882 hubs. They sell pretty much all the possible axles/adapters on their website.


As in these???  If that's the case, it's impressive that they could get a 32h wheelset up to 2510g considering the hubs only weigh ~500g total :skep:

In any case, do you think the 88x hubs use the same ends caps as the 71x hubs?


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

Nancy asked me for a current list of 650b tire manufacturers because they have already started designing a wider version like the 29er and 26er rims. She said it would be about 2 months until they would be ready for sale.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

sbrdude1 said:


> Nancy asked me for a current list of 650b tire manufacturers because they have already started designing a wider version like the 29er and 26er rims. She said it would be about 2 months until they would be ready for sale.


that's good news, I asked her about that 2 months ago when the 26" wide came out and she said they had no plans to make a 650b


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## crowash (Apr 14, 2011)

Could someone help me with this? I'm looking at getting a wheelset for my 26er duallie. I have a 15mm front and 9mm QR back. The website(light bicycle) doesn't explain which hub option suits which.

Is there anything else I need to consider fit wise?


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

Get on live chat or email them with your details and they will fix you up just fine.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Feldybikes said:


> As in these???  If that's the case, it's impressive that they could get a 32h wheelset up to 2510g considering the hubs only weigh ~500g total :skep:
> 
> In any case, do you think the 88x hubs use the same ends caps as the 71x hubs?


Those hubs come in a number of different versions. I believe there are three freehub variations(aluminum, steel & aluminum/steel hybrid) and two internal axle variants (steel vs aluminum). I have the Transition rear hub and it is the burliest of all variants with a steel freehub and steel axle. It's not light, but it has been reliable. The Superstar Components variation of this hub is aluminum/aluminum if you want to look up the weight on those.


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## sand0kan (Jun 6, 2010)

Did receive my rims today. It is the wider 29-er version. Asked Nancy to send me rims < 400 grams.

Did not expected to get a rim of 371 grams. The other rim is still at work. Will make a pic wednesday of it.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

theses rims are the ****


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

theses rims are the shizzle my nizzle


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## sand0kan (Jun 6, 2010)

What is the max spoke tension for the 29-er wide rim of what tension did u use building op the rims?


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

Ordered 2X26" wider rims. Also ordered the MTB252 hub from Thehubstore for the 48POE, for singlespeed use. Still have to get spokes and nipples and learn how to lace wheels. I guess we're never too old to learn stuff....


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

sand0kan said:


> What is the max spoke tension for the 29-er wide rim of what tension did u use building op the rims?


According to Nancy 180kgf, I've build my set using sapim cxrays at 130kgf max.


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## bcelos (Jun 4, 2012)

very nice


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

My pre-built heavy lay-up wheels arrived Friday....had a local wheel builder check them over and spoke tensions were within spec.
Front 750g / rear 950g
IMO the wheels look great, the only negative so far is that the front hub does not spin as freely once locked in to the fork. Apparently this is due to the adapter caps for 15 mm...we'll see if this gets better with some use


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## Yoquh (May 26, 2012)

*Help with wheelset*

I'm looking to buy a new set of wheels.

I don't really know any good wheel builders around where I live.
So I have been looking at buying either the premade light-bicycle wheelset or a set of stan's Arch with DT 240 hubs. 
What would you think is better of the two both would be at similar price?


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## Bob12676 (Sep 10, 2008)

Got my glossy 3k pair of hoops over the weekend and they look good, they have a nice even bead clinch. Unfortunately, I didn't specify how I wanted the rims inner surface finished. So, I ended up with one glossy and one unfinished. I'll be setting them up tubeless, should I use a piece of Scothbrite to rough up the glossy one before taping the rim up? I think I read something about this in a post waaay earlier in the thread, but I couldn't find it.


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

*Still waiting...*

on my wide 29er wheelset.

EMS sent wrong tracking number, but rep says they've been sent. Dunno if I believe her, but I don't really have a choice. I'm off all summer, so I'd like to be here when they get here.

SurfDog, yours look about like I'm guessing that mine will look. I am of 'a certain age', and I was going to order mine with the red hubs, but decided against it, since I'm *nearly* an old fart. Looking at yours, I'm almost wishing I'd gone blingy. That's not an insult. I'm insulting myself for worrying about it. I got the black hubs which I think will look great, but man! the red hubs are sweet. I did order mine with red skewers though.

I had a racer buddy/colleague (well-sponsored, well-respected, on the podium more often than not, trail builder in the area) tell me that carbon wheels are "race day wheels" only and that they aren't for everyday use. I only flinched a little bit, but I still ordered some. Are most of us on here using them for "fun" or are they only getting "race day action"? I'm thinking that I'll get another pair anyway. To me, the price is worth the risk. I mean, I'm trying to DO something here. Opininions?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

expostdelirium said:


> ...I only flinched a little bit, but I still ordered some. Are most of us on here using them for "fun" or are they only getting "race day action"? I'm thinking that I'll get another pair anyway. To me, the price is worth the risk. I mean, I'm trying to DO something here. Opininions?


No disrespect to your buddy but...race day or fun day, if you're riding them and there's a big fat smile on your face because you're enjoying your carbon wheels, I'd say they paid for themselves, yeah?

You know, opinions and a55holes...everyone's got one. Those of others only matters if you care. And unless _she's_ really hawt...!


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Yoquh said:


> I'm looking to buy a new set of wheels.
> 
> I don't really know any good wheel builders around where I live.
> So I have been looking at buying either the premade light-bicycle wheelset or a set of stan's Arch with DT 240 hubs.
> What would you think is better of the two both would be at similar price?


Mikesee built mine and I'm very happy with them. Did it all through the mail.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

expostdelirium said:


> on my wide 29er wheelset.
> 
> EMS sent wrong tracking number, but rep says they've been sent. Dunno if I believe her, but I don't really have a choice. I'm off all summer, so I'd like to be here when they get here.
> 
> ...


carbon frames, bars, posts, etc should only be for raceday by that logic then too...hes welcome to his opinion, but it's a dumb one imo

I wouldn't worry too much about ur rims being shipped, LB has been pretty open/honest with people, they aren't trying to scam you...prob just an honest mistake


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

expostdelirium said:


> on my wide 29er wheelset.
> 
> EMS sent wrong tracking number, but rep says they've been sent. Dunno if I believe her, but I don't really have a choice. I'm off all summer, so I'd like to be here when they get here.
> 
> ...


Meh.... maybe a few years ago when carbon wheels were delicate, ultralight, spindly things that cost $2.5k a set I might be more concerned, but not at $600 (*edit* and $175 for a new hoop shipped to repair of you do manage to break it) a set AM grade wheels that are built like tanks. He probably said that more out of fear and what he 'thinks' than reality.

Like they say, don't believe everything you think.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

Surfdog93 said:


> Apparently this is due to the adapter caps for 15 mm...we'll see if this gets better with some use


Which hubs are these that have front conversion caps? I have been looking for some reasonably priced convertible hubs. Do you know if the rear can be converted to 10mm through-bolt?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

nbwallace said:


> Which hubs are these that have front conversion caps? I have been looking for some reasonably priced convertible hubs. Do you know if the rear can be converted to 10mm through-bolt?


Novatec D881/882. Also known as Novatec "4 in 1". They're convertible to pretty much everything. Unfortunately, they aren't easy to source directly although they are branded and resold by many. You can buy them from Transition Bikes, but they only sell the all steel version. Mine has been reliable although heavy. Superstar Components sells the light version, but not to US addresses. They're also available as additional brands but those are the two I'm familiar with.

You can try contacting Light Bikes and see if they'll sell just the hubs.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*"Dent" in rim*

Just thought I would ask... Has anyone else noticed a subtle "dent" in their rim on the outside bead near the valve stem or anywhere else?

Essentially, it is located where the breaking surface would be on a regular rim..

I am guessing it might just be from the mold...

My wheel builder pointed it out. The area just drops out like there is a layer of carbon or finish missing...kinda weird.. The finish looks normal and can only be noticed with careful observation or touch.

I hope it does not affect the strength of the rim and the bead lock. It looks ok inside the rim channel/bead fwiw..

rear wheel weight at 792 grams w/o rim strip or valve stem... am classic with dt revos..


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> Just thought I would ask... Has anyone else noticed a subtle "dent" in their rim on the outside bead near the valve stem or anywhere else?
> 
> Essentially, it is located where the breaking surface would be on a regular rim..
> 
> ...


Yes, my builder dialed in the truing stand and it rubbed both sides of the rim at the same time during a revolution. The mold is variable by about 1mm, which he said is fine for a disc brake.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Adroit Rider said:


> Yes, my builder dialed in the truing stand and it rubbed both sides of the rim at the same time during a revolution. The mold is variable by about 1mm, which he said is fine for a disc brake.


The one I have here at work is clean. No variation in width that I can tell.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

pimpbot said:


> The one I have here at work is clean. No variation in width that I can tell.


Yeh..not too noticeable.. I just hope the bead is not compromised sorta thing..


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## JudgeMorris (Jun 22, 2005)

Just curious, have any folks out there ordered the prebuilt wheelset with the wider 29er/3K/matte rims and Novatec D881/882 hubs? If so, how much do your wheels weigh? Mine came in at 766 grams/front and 967 grams/rear (without rims strips or valve stems).
I can't decide if that is good or not, seems a bit on the heavy side. Nancy said my rims weighed 400 and 401.
Thoughts?


(aside from calling me out as an whiny WW...I already know...)


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

JudgeMorris, what are the spokes?


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## JudgeMorris (Jun 22, 2005)

Perfect Gentleman said:


> JudgeMorris, what are the spokes?


According to Brian at Light-Bicycle they are "Pillar PSR X-tra 1420 flat spokes, black Oxide J-Bend"

Thanks for the quick reply!


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

sbrdude1 said:


> Nancy asked me for a current list of 650b tire manufacturers because they have already started designing a wider version like the 29er and 26er rims. She said it would be about 2 months until they would be ready for sale.


Yeah, I talked to her quite a bit a few weeks ago. She was asking me for dimensions I'd be interested in for a 650b. I think we agreed on one that actually was slightly narrower than the Enve rim, 28/22 with a 30mm depth, since they were only going to do one mold. It should probably weigh around 400 grams or less. It should be well into design by now and probably being tested by the engineers. But realistically it'll be a couple months before it drops, at least.


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## Yeroon (May 9, 2012)

mattsavage said:


> Yeah, I talked to her quite a bit a few weeks ago. She was asking me for dimensions I'd be interested in for a 650b. I think we agreed on one that actually was slightly narrower than the Enve rim, 28/22 with a 30mm depth, since they were only going to do one mold. It should probably weigh around 400 grams or less. It should be well into design by now and probably being tested by the engineers. But realistically it'll be a couple months before it drops, at least.


So only a little narrower then the AM versions of the 29/26 rims then. Thats a size I'd be happy with. Still the same inner profile I hope?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

JudgeMorris said:


> Just curious, have any folks out there ordered the prebuilt wheelset with the wider 29er/3K/matte rims and Novatec D881/882 hubs? If so, how much do your wheels weigh? Mine came in at 766 grams/front and 967 grams/rear (without rims strips or valve stems).
> I can't decide if that is good or not, seems a bit on the heavy side. Nancy said my rims weighed 400 and 401.
> Thoughts?
> 
> (aside from calling me out as an whiny WW...I already know...)


What axle configurations? The front hubs are around 200g, so that leaves 166g for spokes/nipples. Assuming the rear spokes/nipples are the same, that means the rear hub weighs 400g. That would be about right if you got the steel freehub/steel axle quick release or 10mm Saint. I'd say everything looks pretty good except for the rear hub which could shed 100g with the aluminum hub/axle.

Look on page 29 here for the hub specs: http://www.cyclo-mania.com/CM/catalog/Novatec_Hubs2012.pdf


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

JudgeMorris, I think that the weight with 881/882 hubs is as you wrote, rim = 400gr, rear hub > 300gr, spoke+nipple ~= 220gr, son we have about 920, so the hub has about 350 gr as specified.
I'm myself thinking of this wheelset with 881/882 hubs, but the weight is rather high for me. If there were 711/712 with 15mm and 12x142, it would be grest offering. But I can have lighter wheels with DT240s, and with equal price,


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## JudgeMorris (Jun 22, 2005)

car_nut and Perfect Gentleman...
*Thanks!*

Although I am itching to ride these wheels, I may try to unload them in their current unused condition, order a set of rims to build up with Dt 240 hubs and lighter spokes.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*It would be great to find a source for the 991/992*

That would make my wheel building much more interesting.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

not seeing any difference in the 991/992 vs the 881/882 besides colorways, any reason you are interested in them other than that? have you asked light-bicycle about using them?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*I think the 991/992 are lighter*

They're not dt swiss 240s for sure. I have been looking for an inexpensive convertible hub set for a while. Just in case I have to rebuild some wheels for my brother. I know the Sun Ringles are another possibility, they aren't particularly cheap.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

i was looking at the pdf above, and the 991/2 were pretty much the same weight as the 881/2 (which is what people are getting prebuilt)...only difference was the 2 tone color


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*My bad*

I guess I didn't read the catalog that closely.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Anyone using the AM wider carbon rims with stans yellow tape successfully? 

I'll be using 2.2 schwalbe racing ralphs and maxxis ikons on mine, no ust.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Timbo83 said:


> Anyone using the AM wider carbon rims with stans yellow tape successfully?
> 
> I'll be using 2.2 schwalbe racing ralphs and maxxis ikons on mine, no ust.


I've been running the AM rims with only yellow tape with Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.4 and Nobby Nick 2.35 SS for the past month with no problems. I have been riding 2 bar pressure though.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Timbo83 said:


> Anyone using the AM wider carbon rims with stans yellow tape successfully?
> 
> I'll be using 2.2 schwalbe racing ralphs and maxxis ikons on mine, no ust.


Do a little reading. This has been answered about 15 times on this thread


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

For the 16th time.....I have 1 layer of stans tape on my AM rims. Have run ikon and ignitors with no issues what so ever. 25ish psi and on some very technical and rocky trails.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I am asking Nancy about wider wider rims.

The 30/22mm wide one just didn't support my nobby nic out back as well as hoped.
To be fair I have come off a 47mm wide rim for these!

Would anyone else be interested in a wider wider rim?
More peeps who ask the more likely it is to be made!


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Timbo83 said:


> Anyone using the AM wider carbon rims with stans yellow tape successfully?
> 
> I'll be using 2.2 schwalbe racing ralphs and maxxis ikons on mine, no ust.


Having ACTUALLY READ this long thread I say NO to yellow tape.

Something thicker will result in a tighter fitting tire less prone to burping.

AS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED IN THIS THREAD - bontrager strips seems to work well.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

CaveGiant said:


> I am asking Nancy about wider wider rims.
> 
> The 30/22mm wide one just didn't support my nobby nic out back as well as hoped.
> To be fair I have come off a 47mm wide rim for these!
> ...


YES! I would like to see a 35mm rim. They should drop the narrow rim they make. It is pointless.



bikerjay said:


> Having ACTUALLY READ this long thread I say NO to yellow tape.
> 
> Something thicker will result in a tighter fitting tire less prone to burping.
> 
> AS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED IN THIS THREAD - bontrager strips seems to work well.


Couldn't disagree more. Be careful making such absolute statements. I'm using one layer of stans tape with zero issues so far, and I've run the front tire (Ikon) down in the teens on a rigid. From memory, its more like an equal amount using tape or the bontrager strip that have posted. The bead seat diameter of the rims I got is just slightly smaller than a stans rim. Also, a couple of guys using a strip have the narrower rim which have a completely different bead design than the wider rim making the strip necessity.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

or you could just glue the rim strip to the tyre and solve all of these tubeless problems.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

figo said:


> I've been running the AM rims with only yellow tape with Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.4 and Nobby Nick 2.35 SS for the past month with no problems. I have been riding 2 bar pressure though.


I've been using only yellow tape as well, no issues with the tires burping. Hans Dampf front, Karma 2.2 rear.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

utah joe said:


> For the 16th time.....I have 1 layer of stans tape on my AM rims. Have run ikon and ignitors with no issues what so ever. 25ish psi and on some very technical and rocky trails.


Hey, any idea if Stans tape works with these rims? LOL


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

indyfab25 said:


> Hey, any idea if Stans tape works with these rims? LOL


I'd like to know myself. Has anybody tried this? 

BTW, got my rear wheel built. 995g. Somehow, I thought I would be lighter than that, but oh well....

A little truing, and it will be on the bike this weekend. Gotta do the front, tho.

Hayes-Hugi hub
DT 14/15 spokes
brass nipples
no rim strip (yet)


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

indyfab25 said:


> Hey, any idea if Stans tape works with these rims? LOL


Yeah okay, no need to take the piss. A simple yes or no would have been fine.

You might have noticed this forum is now pretty sizable, and I don't know of its just me but all of the posts come up out of order on my computer, do it gets pretty hard to follow!

Thanks for your help anyway


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## Yeroon (May 9, 2012)

Timbo83 said:


> Yeah okay, no need to take the piss. A simple yes or no would have been fine.
> 
> You might have noticed this forum is now pretty sizable, and I don't know of its just me but all of the posts come up out of order on my computer, do it gets pretty hard to follow!
> 
> Thanks for your help anyway


i get that to, where someone will have a quote which happens to be the user below him, wtf?'


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## Yeroon (May 9, 2012)

double post


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## tdoft (Apr 7, 2011)

This thread does have it's own zip code at this point! I've got about five rides on my wide light-bik es carbons built by Dave at speed dream. I'm running 2.25 racing ralphs front and rear with yellow stans tape. Rear tire burped slightly the first ride but has held perfectly ever since. Liking the wheels a lot. Interestingly I've noticed the most improvement in downhill cornering since getting these bad boyz. On rough rocky technical sections im actually doing more walking than before. I guess the extra stiffness is throwing off my mojo a bit. I think this will improve with a couple more rides


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Timbo83 said:


> Yeah okay, no need to take the piss. A simple yes or no would have been fine.
> 
> You might have noticed this forum is now pretty sizable, and I don't know of its just me but all of the posts come up out of order on my computer, do it gets pretty hard to follow!
> 
> Thanks for your help anyway


That's a problem with the default forum layout.

To fix it click on the "My Account" button at the top left of the page. Scroll down to Settings & Options - Edit Options and change the Thread Display Mode to "Linear - Oldest First".

I also have the option directly beneath it it set to display 100 posts per page which makes it easier to scroll through long threads also.

Once you've done that go down to the bottom of the page and click Save Changes.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)




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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

*Rim Strips*

My 3k Matte, black spoked, black hubbed, red nippled, red skewered wheels came in today! I went to the LBS and got Bonty strips and valves. I picked up a bottle of Stan's as well. You will want the 29er 'symmetrical' strips.

Setup was easy, and I'm running a Spec Fast Trak in the front, and a Kenda SB8 in the back. I still haven't ridden them yet - no time - but I will as soon as I get a chance. Maybe this weekend?

Pics I took after unpacking them:



















After setting up the second wheel tubeless (10 min after the first one, 25 min for both):












On the bike; can't really see much:


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## anomaly (Jun 18, 2007)

Why are people choosing Bonty rim strips over Stans yellow tape + valves?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

anomaly said:


> Why are people choosing Bonty rim strips over Stans yellow tape + valves?


Lighter...cheaper...easier...more secure...


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

anomaly said:


> Why are people choosing Bonty rim strips over Stans yellow tape + valves?


Snugger fit. The bead socket of the light-bicycle rim is not as gregarious (on its own) with a tubeless conversion as that of a NoTubes rim. The Bonty strip helps "correct" that.

That being said, with certain tires that are tubeless ready and have tight beads, getting away with yellow tape and valves probably is meeting with plenty of success. I didn't even try it as I went straight for the Bonty strips.

BB


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

DFYFZX said:


> Lighter...cheaper...easier...more secure...


I can't imagine a Bonty rim strip is lighter than a layer of yellow tape, but sure! I'll try it. Anything to make it more reliable.

... mostly out of peer pressure.

Dang. I say something about how I'll never try tubeless again after my two big failures, and all my friends come out of the woodwork all pissed off as if I went into church and said Jesus was a predator serial pedophile or something.

Geez, Bike people are weird.


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> I can't imagine a Bonty rim strip is lighter than a layer of yellow tape, but sure! I'll try it. Anything to make it more reliable.
> 
> ... mostly out of peer pressure.
> 
> ...


They aren't lighter. Around 40g a piece for the bonty strips. Many of us have had plenty of success with yellow tape.


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## mtbkr678 (Mar 10, 2004)

What was your order to door time? I'm being told a 10 working day build time and then emailed tracking number but I'm not totally sure this is correct. I placed my order on May31st.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*List of tires that are NOT working with yellow tape*

would be nice...

Is there such a thing somewhere in these 1500 posts? Is it just a myth? Are there "no-no" tires that are NOT working with the yellow tape??

Thx


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

I was getting ready to order a set and was looking on the light bicycle website. She says that there is a weight limit of 95kg (about 200lbs) for 29er rims. She says that they can build heavier rims for larger riders. Any feedback from riders in the 230lb range. If she were to build a heavier rim I could get the Stan's Arch-ex (450 grams) which would be about the same weight. I will be using sapim cx-ray spokes for the build with either rim choices.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

mtbkr678 said:


> What was your order to door time? I'm being told a 10 working day build time and then emailed tracking number but I'm not totally sure this is correct. I placed my order on May31st.


my 26" wide rims shipped Wednesday last week, and are on the USPS truck for delivery today...faster than most domestic orders i make, insane...manufacturing time is the variable though


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

DFYFZX said:


> Lighter...cheaper...easier...more secure...


Did you mean to say that Bonty strips are "lighter...cheaper" than Stans strips??? They are obvious not lighter nor cheaper than tape.


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

MIne left China 5 June (4 June here), they were here on 8 June, to go out on the 9th, but I saw they were at the post office on the 8th. I saw the mailman, when I was mowing so I asked him if I could go pick them up. I did just that after I finished mowing. Yeah, faster than lots of domestic stuff. Silly, no?

I'll love these wheels!


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

*Sorry...*

for 2 posts so close together. If you are pushing the weight limit, try Sally at carbonality. She sent me a diagram a couple of weeks ago of a 'reinforced' wheel. I didn't order from her, but her customer service is proactive. If I can get her to come down on price and be a bit more competitive I will order from them. Sally on the carbon wheels is what Bryant is on the carbon frames (and I didn't order from Bryant's company either). Tell her that Sean told you to look her up. Might help me in my quest to haggle with her.


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

Got my 2nd set of rims today. 12k matte. Weighed in at 376g and 372g. Going to build them up with DT supercomps, and DT hubs for my santa cruz LTc that I have on order. Going to be sick!!


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

tonloc08 said:


> Got my 2nd set of rims today. 12k matte. Weighed in at 376g and 372g. Going to build them up with DT supercomps, and DT hubs for my santa cruz LTc that I have on order. Going to be sick!!


Lighter than Crests I think...wow.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

ktm520 said:


> Did you mean to say that Bonty strips are "lighter...cheaper" than Stans strips??? They are obvious not lighter nor cheaper than tape.


You may have me on the weight. The Bonty strips weigh 35gr each. Tape is probably 10gr lighter per end. The strips ARE cheaper if you take into consideration they can be removed to service the wheel and re-installed assuming you don't muck them up:thumbsup: $20 for a pair or $14 for a roll of fancy box tape that you have to replace anytime you replace a spoke. I don't know... Price and weight is pretty close to a wash for up front parts but long term I'll take the strips. Oh, and as I mentioned originally, the Bonty strips simulate UST rim beads so they're MUCH more secure:thumbsup: Several people have reported burping and rolling tires off the rim since these rims aren't designed for tubeless so if you insist on saving a few grams and $s, don't forget my "Soap Box" speech when you're trying to put a tube in a Stans mess in the woods, or worse yet, WALKING out


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

tonloc08 said:


> Got my 2nd set of rims today. 12k matte. Weighed in at 376g and 372g. Going to build them up with DT supercomps, and DT hubs for my santa cruz LTc that I have on order. Going to be sick!!


Was that the 30mm wide rims or the thinner XC ones ?


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

Timbo83 said:


> Was that the 30mm wide rims or the thinner XC ones ?


Wide AM rims


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Dayum!!*



tonloc08 said:


> Wide AM rims


I wonder if durability suffers at all. Seems to me shaving 20 grams off an already crazy light rim is out of the normal spec.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> I wonder if durability suffers at all. Seems to me shaving 20 grams off an already crazy light rim is out of the normal spec.


That's what I was thinking.

I wonder if it's worth asking for the rim weight before they start building your wheels.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Got the front Lefty wheel built!*



pimpbot said:


> I'd like to know myself. Has anybody tried this?
> 
> BTW, got my rear wheel built. 995g. Somehow, I thought I would be lighter than that, but oh well....
> 
> ...


I was able to reuse my old spokes without washers. I don't have much adjustment room left, but it works. It was an easy build, too. It tensioned right up straight and true.

Cannondale Lefty SI hub, silver
DT Champion DB spokes, 14/15ga, brass nipples
Light-Bicycle AM carbon 29er rim (393g)
Lefty bolt and self-extractor cap

No rim strip (yet).

Total weight, 753g.

... and feels way stiff right off the bat. I need to borrow a bud's tension meter to make sure I didn't oer tighten the spokes, but it feels on par with other wheels I have.

The only thing really disconcerning is that when I was pre-stressing the rim (hub on the floor, lean a bit on the rim, circle around both sides) I heard some minor spintering/crackling sound. I don't know if that is normal or not, but my rear did it too, during the build.  Not much, but a tiny bit.


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Rachel302 said:


> On-One will be selling carbon rims and prebuilt wheelsets in early 2011. News article here. The complete tubeless wheelset is projected to cost a bit over $1000, in other words not too much more than a single ENVE rim. I couldn't find the pricing info on the cheaper non-tubeless rim, but IIRC it was guesstimated at around $200 a rim


Repost? Plus it's already 2012........


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

On-one spam? Lame


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

its a spam account, report the post and "she'll" get removed


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Doubt it's a spam account, would be interesting to find out a purpose behind spamming for a canned product ;-)

I guess it's a direct result of On-One announcing those wheels/rims loud and then canning then silently. Happy I didn't wait for them and bough a set of these AM rims.

ps. does seem to be spam, now I'm trying to understand what purpose that post had :madman:


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

clewttu said:


> well, she posted the verbatim same thing a while back in the thread and it was deleted....after some other poster had posted it...and Join Date: 06-12-2012


:madman: sometimes I should read into a profile rather than hope for the goodness of people


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

well, she posted the verbatim same thing a while back in the thread and it was deleted....after some other poster had posted it...and Join Date: 06-12-2012


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Miker J said:


> What flavor of tire are you using with these rims? TLR or plain ol tires?
> 
> Thanks.


I don't trust non-tubeless tires without tubes. Thus I've only been using UST or TLR type stuff tubeless.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

rydbyk said:


> Thanks MC.. The "bad" rims were before they got the QC dialed in right? Hopefully their latest (last 6 weeks or so) rims have been better... Any idea?


Last bad set was ~3 weeks ago. No idea how long the customer had been sitting on them though.


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

SmallBlock8 and Fast Traks - just reg'lar ol' tars. I've done it before, and one of my friends has had his SB8 on for around 1.5 years and no probs. I should do some research on what the difference is. The price is only one thing, right?


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

expostdelirium said:


> SmallBlock8 and Fast Traks - just reg'lar ol' tars. I've done it before, and one of my friends has had his SB8 on for around 1.5 years and no probs. I should do some research on what the difference is. The price is only one thing, right?


Who are you talking to and what are you talking about? Burped tires on these Nancy carbons by chance?


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm talking to MikerJ&Mikesee. I guess my response didn't thread properly. 

I'm talking about running "regular" tires (Kenda Small Block 8, and Specialized Fast Trak) as tubeless tires. MikerJ asked what flavor of tires, and Mikesee said he didn't trust non-tubeless tires being run tubeless. I was trying to illustrate that I've never run a tire meant for tubeless as such.

I didn't get my wheels from Nancy, and I haven't had a chance to ride them enough to burp them, nor have I ridden them enough to know if they will. From what "trusted sources" say, they set up well, and don't suffer the burps, if one uses Bonty strips - which I did with my "regular tires".

Sorry for looking like I'm coming from left field.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*Funny....*



mikesee said:


> I don't trust non-tubeless tires without tubes. Thus I've only been using UST or TLR type stuff tubeless.


Like Expo's post, On Stan's my best luck has been with kenda, non-TLR type tires. I have not had good luck with the TLR tires on Stans, and of the tires I've blown off, they've all been TLR type.

Anyway, glad to hear TLR type tires are working with these rims, as I've got a local Spec dealer and have grown to really like their tires.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

The carbon experiences continues to amaze me, I just re-tensioned my wheels as I noticed some spokes in the back had gone a bit slack. When measuring the spoke tension the disc side of my powertap was all below 50kgf, with the worst one giving a reading of 1 on the TM-1 tensiometer. 

Last weekend I've raced the wheels on a fairly technical track and I had noticed the wheels were not as tight as they used to be, but still better then my other 29er wheels.

Now all back to tension, let's see if this was an issue of the spokes coming loose by themselves or a bedding in problem.


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## SparxFlyer (Dec 29, 2010)

I received my wheels a few weeks back, in less than 3 weeks from the order date (start of May). They look good (matte 3K weave) and came in at 396 and 384 grams, respectively. There was no extra material anywhere in the bead portion of either rim.

I just got them back from my wheel builder. He noted there were a couple spots with a few thou of extra material on the outside of one rim which drove him a bit nuts while he was checking their "roundness". Once he figured it out it wasn't a problem with his wheel build he was able to work around it.

There were no instructions or suggestions for spoke tension and he has ended up putting them up to 128 kg of tension based on experience with other carbon rims. I know I've seen the 120 kg number mentioned here before but am wondering what tensions others are running and what if any impact that high a tension might have on the life of the rim and the spokes? 

(Spokes are 294 mm in length and are a mix of DT Competition & DT Revolution on DT Swiss 240S hubs.)


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

figo said:


> Now all back to tension, let's see if this was an issue of the spokes coming loose by themselves or a bedding in problem.


Ensure even spoke tension on either side. I think that uneven spoke tension might be the reason.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

expostdelirium said:


> SmallBlock8 and Fast Traks - just reg'lar ol' tars. I've done it before, and one of my friends has had his SB8 on for around 1.5 years and no probs. I should do some research on what the difference is. The price is only one thing, right?


If you have seen the type of terrain Mikesee rides on a regular basis and enjoyed viewing his excellent photography and video over the years showing us all of the dream terrain he rides - you would understand why running a regular tire bead tubeless is not an ideal set up for his particular needs. Suffice it to say, outside of the driveway leading in and out of his residence, he rides nothing where a SB8 or Fast Trak would do him much of any good.

The NoTubes bead was designed to convert non-tubeless type tires. The light-bicycle bead reminds me a lot of the first generation Velocity Blunt rim (also works great with the Bontrager Rhythm strip). It's not as forgiving as a NoTubes rim in terms of running any old tire.

It's a pretty slick interface to use the Bonty rim strips on these carbon rims (doesn't require any yellow tape underneath), they are light and they improve the tire bead/rim interface to improve the safety and trustworthiness of a tubeless set up. I have been beating the heck out of my Nobby Nics (SS /TLR) on these rims. In fact, I beat the rear wheel so much this week that I had to take it in yesterday to get trued up. I've run my psi from the teens up to 24 (that's as high as I'll go with a monster truck 2.35 size for my 185 pounds) with no burping, no squirm and am pretty confident with the interface for my riding needs.

But that's not to say there is any sort of guarantee. It's just to say I've taken the steps to make this tubeless set up as trustworthy as I can make it by choice of rim strip and choice of tire. I have not tried a "regular" tire conversion on the carbon rims and don't feel the need to with all of the tires that are available these days.

That being said, if you think the SB8 is a good tire, you really ought to take a look and a try with some better tires such as the Maxxis Ikon or the Schwalbe Racing Ralph - or even Continental Race King. All of those are tires in the same class with better volume, better pedigree and better performance out on the trail - IMO of course.

BB


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## mtbkr678 (Mar 10, 2004)

SparxFlyer said:


> I received my wheels a few weeks back, in less than 3 weeks from the order date (start of May). They look good (matte 3K weave) and came in at 396 and 384 grams, respectively. There was no extra material anywhere in the bead portion of either rim.
> 
> I just got them back from my wheel builder. He noted there were a couple spots with a few thou of extra material on the outside of one rim which drove him a bit nuts while he was checking their "roundness". Once he figured it out it wasn't a problem with his wheel build he was able to work around it.
> 
> ...


Wish I could say the same. After 3 weeks mine have still not shipped!


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

hssp said:


> Ensure even spoke tension on either side. I think that uneven spoke tension might be the reason.


I'm not so sure that was the problem, as the drive side spokes were all at 130kgf and the disc side about 100kgf. Same procedure building these as the alu rim wheels I've build, same stress relieving and even the same spokes and nipples.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Verna317 said:


> there aren't any so far. i don't think we'll see any 29er carbon rims cheaper than ENVE&easton until on one manages to get their protos into production. prolly around 2015, considering how the frame has been going.


who are you answering?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

its another spambot


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*First ride, (and needs more spoke tension related question)*

Got my first ride on the Carbon rims last night. They felt great. I didn't feel as if the front end of my bike was wandering around the off camber rocky stuff, like I usually feel. It made the bike feel more point-and-shoot.

I even managed to get my front aired up tubeless, and it held for a whole ride! That is a record for me! I might be able to run tubeless after all. During the ride, I was getting some seepage and minor bubbling around the bead. I don't know if that should be a big concern. Maybe I should invest in some Bontrager rim strips.

My front wheel is the 29er AM carbon rim, Stan's yellow tape, Bontrager stem, 60g of Stan's Sealant (plus an extra little squirt), and a Werewolf LT 2.55, relatively new. I aired it up with one CO2 cartridge, then tire pump.

So I had a bud bring over his Park spoke tension meter, but he forgot the chart that goes with it. My other wheels metered out to #20-#24 on the scale, but since i didn't have the chart, I have no idea how much kGf that comes out to be. My new carbon wheels were around the #16-#19 range. I'm using DT Swiss DB 14/15 ga spokes. I obviously need to up my tension a bit, I think. I didn't notice any nipple ticking sounds, or feel any flex, but I wanna get it right so the rims will last nearly forever with as little future adjustment as possible.

Does anybody have an idea of what the proper tension for these wheels comes out to be on the Park meter scale?


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

So do the wider rims have a max suggested rider weight? Also, are they durable enough for Arizona riding with lots of rocks and some aggressive downhills?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

FMX_DBC said:


> So do the wider rims have a max suggested rider weight? Also, are they durable enough for Arizona riding with lots of rocks and some aggressive downhills?


I just looked it up. Official published weight limit is 95kg, or 209.4 pounds. They also say they can make them beefier on request for a higher weight limit.

I was a bit worried about it myself, 'cause I run 207 pounds nekkid these days. My good bud Aosty points out I shouldn't worry, I ride like a puss anyway.  He's not wrong.

I'm trying to find out the spoke tension limit. It doesn't seem to be listed on this site. My apologies if it's been noted here before, but I'm too lazy to search.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

From what I read in this thread 120 is about the max spoke tension you want I believe. Like you I'm right about at the weight limit at 208-210lbs. I ride pretty aggressively so I might request them a little beefier. I have an email into them now regarding the weight limit


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Around 120 seems good, I've built mine with 130kgf max, just because I'm using CX-rays and have good results with that tension on my alu rims as well. According to Nancy the max spoke tension of the rims is 180kgf, but I don't have the guts to get anywhere near that...


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

figo said:


> According to Nancy 180kgf, I've build my set using sapim cxrays at 130kgf max.


^^^


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> ...I aired it up with one CO2 cartridge, then tire pump.
> 
> So I had a bud bring over his Park spoke tension meter, but he forgot the chart that goes with it. My other wheels metered out to #20-#24 on the scale, but since i didn't have the chart, I have no idea how much kGf that comes out to be. My new carbon wheels were around the #16-#19 range. I'm using DT Swiss DB 14/15 ga spokes. I obviously need to up my tension a bit, I think. I didn't notice any nipple ticking sounds, or feel any flex, but I wanna get it right so the rims will last nearly forever with as little future adjustment as possible.


CO2 and latex does not play well. If you had sealant in the tire when you hit it with the CO2, it has caused rapid polymerization of the latex and the sealant will dry in short order. I always bead the tire first dry and then inject the sealant through the valve stem.

For a 1.8mm spoke, 16=60kgf and 19=80kgf. You should be somewhere around 23=124kgf. I hope your spoke tension didn't vary 3 numbers on the gauge on the same side of the wheel.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Good to know...*



ktm520 said:


> CO2 and latex does not play well. If you had sealant in the tire when you hit it with the CO2, it has caused rapid polymerization of the latex and the sealant will dry in short order. I always bead the tire first dry and then inject the sealant through the valve stem.
> 
> For a 1.8mm spoke, 16=60kgf and 19=80kgf. You should be somewhere around 23=124kgf. I hope your spoke tension didn't vary 3 numbers on the gauge on the same side of the wheel.


I always thought CO2 was pretty inert, like, it doesn't react with much that would be inside a tire.

I'm getting the last few parts for my compressor today, so hopefully that won't be an issue in the future.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

CO2 doesn't affect the sealant, latex or otherwise...when you pump a tire up with a track/hand pump you are introducing CO2...hell, Hutchisons sealant is basically a CO2 cartridge and latex sealant in one
Now an extreme cold shock from a cartridge directly into a bunch of sealant might have some affect, i dunno, and the cartridge air will be dryer, but I've used them as have countless others without issue


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

clewttu said:


> CO2 doesn't affect the sealant, latex or otherwise...when you pump a tire up with a track/hand pump you are introducing CO2...hell, Hutchisons sealant is basically a CO2 cartridge and latex sealant in one
> Now an extreme cold shock from a cartridge directly into a bunch of sealant might have some affect, i dunno, and the cartridge air will be dryer, but I've used them as have countless others without issue


Uhmm, the concentration of CO2 in atmospheric air is a little different than a cartridge, which is . . . yep 100%:thumbsup:. I only had to do it once and it turned the sealant into pudding. Plus, a chemist over in the homebrew thread explained why the CO2 causes the latex to polymerize. Not even going to try to regurgitate.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

I realize the concentrations are different, that's elementary. But if what you say is true, the reaction would still be taking place regardless. 
CO2 is essentially inert. If it had some reaction chemically with sealants, it would always have that chemical reaction. I have used it with no reaction whatsoever. I would guess what's happened to you is you shot a super dry and cold blast of air into a puddle of sealant in your tire, and that centralized area dehydrated rapidly and formed a gob of latex...similar to the scabs that form when the sealant dries out.

Or show some info of this reaction, im def open to learning something new.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Air is only .039% CO2, and concentration does matter. I'll let you do your own research.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

clewttu said:


> I realize the concentrations are different, that's elementary. But if what you say is true, the reaction would still be taking place regardless.
> CO2 is essentially inert. If it had some reaction chemically with sealants, it would always have that chemical reaction. I have used it with no reaction whatsoever. I would guess what's happened to you is you shot a super dry and cold blast of air into a puddle of sealant in your tire, and that centralized area dehydrated rapidly and formed a gob of latex...similar to the scabs that form when the sealant dries out.
> 
> Or show some info of this reaction, im def open to learning something new.


Air also has oxygen ,but air is not flammable. Pure O2 is highly flammable and explosive. As ktm said, concentration does matter.
Same idea with a CO2 can and the sealant. 
If you had no reaction, that's all good. Definitely not the norm, and actually kind of amazing. The bad reaction between a CO2 canister and tire sealant is well documented on this forum.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

that ratio doesnt have anything to do with the the scenario of discussion: using co2 cartridges with sealant
no chemical reactions take place between co2 and latex, if it did, wouldnt there be a new substance and byproduct? what you have is latex still...polymerization is happening because of dehydration of the solvent, not because of the co2/latex, when the sealant dries out over a couple months time its "polymerization" as well...i dont doubt what you read, nor do i doubt that youve had issues, i just am doubting your interpretation that its because of co2 and latex not playing well
i have done some research and have a moderate idea of what im talking about, not sure you do at all or you would explain it...hence the "ill let you do your own research" comment

dont want to get in a pissing match, but I also dont want someone thats never set up a tubeless tire to read misinformation and shy away from a simple method of seating a stubborn tire in the absence of a compressor


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

mucky said:


> Air also has oxygen ,but air is not flammable. Pure O2 is highly flammable and explosive. As ktm said, concentration does matter.
> Same idea with a CO2 can and the sealant.
> If you had no reaction, that's all good. Definitely not the norm, and actually kind of amazing. The bad reaction between a CO2 canister and tire sealant is well documented on this forum.


not really relevant, but, carbon dioxide is essentially an inert gas, oxygen is not, inert gases being nonreactive 
oxygen is flammable, be it pure or in the air, makes no difference...without it a match wouldnt light

sorry about prolongoing that derail, im done, feel free to not use co2 charges by all means, and i will continue to as i always have without issue...should be discussing rims anyway


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

If you use the Bontrager strips you can seat a new tire with a sneeze into the valve. No need for a CO2 cartridge.

But, with a beat up, worn out tire, the CO2 cartridge may be needed.

Back to the rims. I have been riding at 21.99psi front and rear. A little afraid to go lower.160lbs riding buff, packed sand, with a little bit of rocks and roots.

How do you know when you are too low? Rim strikes? I don't want to go there. Is there any parking lot test I can do?

I use my palm to fully compress the tire and see how it feels but that is not very scientific.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

clewttu said:


> not really relevant, but, carbon dioxide is essentially an inert gas, oxygen is not, inert gases being nonreactive
> oxygen is flammable, be it pure or in the air, makes no difference...without it a match wouldnt light


My point was that the concentration of the gas greatly determines the reaction.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

clewttu said:


> not really relevant, but, carbon dioxide is essentially an inert gas, oxygen is not, inert gases being nonreactive
> oxygen is flammable, be it pure or in the air, makes no difference...without it a match wouldnt light
> 
> sorry about prolongoing that derail, im done, feel free to not use co2 charges by all means, and i will continue to as i always have without issue...should be discussing rims anyway


CO2 will dissolve in the aqueous component of sealant proportional to it's concentration in the air inside the tire, forming carbonic acid which will drop the pH of the solution and promote coagulation of the latex.
dissolution and dissociation in water is a reaction => not inert

FYI
:thumbsup:


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Adroit Rider said:


> How do you know when you are too low? Rim strikes?


I think that is basically it.
I'm about your weight, and I run 23 psi F and 24 psi R on Crest rims. I think tire volume has a role in what pressure you can run, if I recall correctly. I've read people running 19-20 psi with a similar weight, 155-160, with success. I wouldn't go below 22 F or R, but that's me. I don't want to find out I'm too low by denting my rim.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Adroit Rider said:


> If you use the Bontrager strips you can seat a new tire with a sneeze into the valve. No need for a CO2 cartridge.


not always true


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> CO2 will dissolve in the aqueous component of sealant proportional to it's concentration in the air inside the tire, forming carbonic acid which will drop the pH of the solution and promote coagulation of the latex.
> dissolution and dissociation in water is a reaction => not inert
> 
> FYI
> :thumbsup:


thanks, this is what I was looking for


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Also FYI, oxygen is not flammable!


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

giantdale said:


> Also FYI, oxygen is not flammable!


I stand corrected. Thanks


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

As far as the bontrager rim strips vs stans rim tape.....

I have used both and here are some of the details. 

- The stans rim tape is much lighter. I pulled it off and weighed it before putting on the bonty rim strips. Stans rim tape weighed 6g.
Bonty rim strips weighed 42g and 46g. 

- I ride hard and have had my tire burp one time with the stans rim tape. I landed a jump on an off camber landing and the tire essentially folded off the rim causing me to crash. I'm not sure that would not have happened with the bonty rim strip but we will see. 

- As far as mounting the tire: They both aired up easily with an air compressor. With the rim tape I did not get much of the comforting pops that insure the tire is set into the bead properly. The rim strips pop loudly into place. I have to say that the rim strips seem more secure. Time will tell. As for now, I'm going to keep the tape on my rear wheel and a rim strip on the front.


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## SlackBoy (Mar 7, 2008)

tonloc08 said:


> As far as the bontrager rim strips vs stans rim tape.....
> 
> I have used both and here are some of the details.
> 
> ...


Stans tape at 6g AND the valve at 6.5gram. as well. Just saying.

I'm running Stans tape on both F+R and having no issues wotso ever. And I'm running heavy at the moment as well. Need to lay off the pies


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

SlackBoy said:


> Stans tape at 6g AND the valve at 6.5gram. as well. Just saying.


You also need a valve with the Bonty strips.


SlackBoy said:


> I'm running Stans tape on both F+R and having no issues wotso ever. And I'm running heavy at the moment as well. Need to lay off the pies


I'm not one to gamble with my teeth, but the success of tape-only conversions has me wondering. I've already got the Bonty strips, I'll most likely stick to those.


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## SlackBoy (Mar 7, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> You also need a valve with the Bonty strips.
> 
> I'm not one to gamble with my teeth, but the success of tape-only conversions has me wondering. I've already got the Bonty strips, I'll most likely stick to those.


Curse you Melting featherfor making me look like the Re-Tard that I am.
in my defense we don't really see the bonty strips very often down in NZ.

Personally I already have more than a few missing teeth, it'll just save on the docs when I need the rest out. Now if only Intense would hurry up with the new swingarm for my M9 so i can flick it off, I can get my falsies


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

BruceBrown said:


> If you have seen the type of terrain Mikesee rides on a regular basis and enjoyed viewing his excellent photography and video over the years showing us all of the dream terrain he rides - you would understand why running a regular tire bead tubeless is not an ideal set up for his particular needs. Suffice it to say, outside of the driveway leading in and out of his residence, he rides nothing where a SB8 or Fast Trak would do him much of any good.
> 
> It's a pretty slick interface to use the Bonty rim strips on these carbon rims (doesn't require any yellow tape underneath), they are light and they improve the tire bead/rim interface to improve the safety and trustworthiness of a tubeless set up. I have been beating the heck out of my Nobby Nics (SS /TLR) on these rims. In fact, I beat the rear wheel so much this week that I had to take it in yesterday to get trued up. I've run my psi from the teens up to 24 (that's as high as I'll go with a monster truck 2.35 size for my 185 pounds) with no burping, no squirm and am pretty confident with the interface for my riding needs.
> 
> ...


Oh, I was just answering his question at to what tires people were using. I had/have no idea where he rides. I'll have to look into it. I wasn't making a suggestion of what type of tire anyone should use. Just sayin' what I use, and what I've found that works well for the varied terrain that's around here.

I like my Bonty strips/valves. I've ridden a bunch of different tires and rims set up ghetto, and I never quite felt comfortable nor confident. From what you say, I understand it a bit better now. I feel a bit more both on these strips than I have on anything else. I plan to get out and thrash mine around when I get a chance.

Lots and lots of choice of tires. I've been through a bunch of them, and I've stuck with the ones that I like/don't hate. I have a bunch of tires I don't ride in my basement. I like the SB8/Fast Trak/Exiwolf for a reason: these tires don't work as well on rocks and roots when it's damp. They work well in dirt, silty corners, tacky mud, and they roll and corner like a dream in hardpack. When it's dry around here, they've always seemed to do a great job. The fact that they don't work well in the wet kind of makes me stay off the trail when conditions are questionable. I didn't like the Race King, though many around here almost swear by it. I didn't like the Ralphs either, and I haven't ever seen/ridden the Ikon. I might look at one. I thought the MotoRaptor and the Jones ACX were hopeless. I was somewhat undecided on the XDX, but I think I might give it another try on these rims. I'm not a tire peasant, but I'm cheap.  It might be time to revisit those tires, or buy other tube-less ready ones, but why? I've found tires that I like, work well around here, and that are cheap enough to buy a bunch of. Any and all of that might change if I start rolling tires off these rims.

BB, you seem to know about tires; did Kenda change the compound in the SB8 at some point? My second and 3rd set seem to be more "plastic-ey' than my first set. They are kind of hard. The first set is still good, but they seem like they wore down faster than the other 2 sets.

I've learned a great deal from this thread. The main thing I've learned is that if you do your research that you can get almost exactly what you want. Thanks all.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> You also need a valve with the Bonty strips.
> 
> I'm not one to gamble with my teeth, but the success of tape-only conversions has me wondering. I've already got the Bonty strips, I'll most likely stick to those.


My guess is the tire is the main factor whether they can run tape-only on these rims, I don't notice any less tight fit between these carbon wheels and my American Classic set, also the when removing the tire I don't notice a lot of difference, this is all with the same tire..

Just to be sure I did order a pair rim strips, in case I'll get any burping at lower pressure in the following weeks.


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## ccornacc (Mar 26, 2007)

where is everyone getting these Bonty rim strips from? I'd like to give them a try.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

ccornacc said:


> where is everyone getting these Bonty rim strips from? I'd like to give them a try.


Any Trek dealer. They're like $10 each.

I think you can order them from Bontrager: Components, Accessories, Apparel, and Shoes for Road, Mountain, and City Cycling as well.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*40 lbf sound right for tension?*

I think 40 lbf is the same as 88 kgf. I believe this is what my wheel builder suggested for me using the Nancy wide 29er hoops.

FWIW, I am 150 lbs and I have the dt revos being laced to Amer Classic hubs...

Thoughts/suggestions please...?!

His thoughts were to build them at 40 lbf and have me ride them a bit and bring 'em back for re-tensioning.. Hmm..


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

expostdelirium said:


> BB, you seem to know about tires; did Kenda change the compound in the SB8 at some point? My second and 3rd set seem to be more "plastic-ey' than my first set. They are kind of hard. The first set is still good, but they seem like they wore down faster than the other 2 sets.


I only have one pair of the SB8's and note the "plastic-ey" of them (as well as my Nevegals). My comments were more based on the wheels and tire forum where the test results are not as favorable for the Small Block Eight. Most noteworthy is the rolling resistance of the Small Block Eight. The test confirmed the feel I always have when running them - be it on gravel, singletrack, pavement to and from the trail, etc... . They just feel sluggish when compared to other tires I use.

The SB8 29"er tire has a rolling resistance measurement of 40.5 Watts in the test (higher number means a slower tire). The Nobby Nic with the big knobs has a measurement of 28.5 Watts. A Rocket Ron is 26.4 Watts. Geax AKA 2.2 is 25.7 Watts. And so on and so forth.

The good news is the SB8 wears well (as in lasts a good long time) and the tests confirm this.

That being said, my AM carbon rims are all about the Nobby Nics this season...


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

rydbyk said:


> I think 40 lbf is the same as 88 kgf. I believe this is what my wheel builder suggested for me using the Nancy wide 29er hoops.
> 
> FWIW, I am 150 lbs and I have the dt revos being laced to Amer Classic hubs...
> 
> ...


88kgf is too low for any serious wheel.
A general recommendation is 90-120 and with these things being carbon and allegedly rated all the way to a staggering 180 I would take em all they way to 120.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> I think 40 lbf is the same as 88 kgf. I believe this is what my wheel builder suggested for me using the Nancy wide 29er hoops.
> 
> FWIW, I am 150 lbs and I have the dt revos being laced to Amer Classic hubs...
> 
> ...


I'd think it's the other way around, 40kgf is 88lbs, if at least there is any consistency with my weight more than doubling when I travel to the states


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

figo said:


> I'd think it's the other way around, 40kgf is 88lbs, if at least there is any consistency with my weight more than doubling when I travel to the states


Yes, you are correcto


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

I've never seen that thread. I'll have to look it over. I appreciate the heads-up of what the numbers say. That's the sort of thing I like to compare. It allows me to see the numbers behind my impressions. That said, the SB8 seem to roll faster than other tires I've ridden, but if I have a tire on that list that has lower numbers, I'll try the "feel" of it to compare to the numbers. 

Appreciate it.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

figo said:


> My guess is the tire is the main factor whether they can run tape-only on these rims.


I think it's the rim. A Stans rim has a different bead hook for the tire to connect with, so their tape is all you need. I think the Bonty strip is used to replicate a hook interface like with the Stan's rim. I would assume you can't even use a Bonty strip on a Stan's rim, but I'm not sure. 
I was also under the assumption that UST tires has a different bead hook for the same reason, but thought they can only be used on certain rims. Again, I don't really know.


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## mtbkr678 (Mar 10, 2004)

Just canceled my order today. After 3weeks they still are not complete and have not shipped.

I'm going to just get some stan's instead. At least I know I will get them.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Please, tell a little more. Where and what did you order, who did you deal with and what was the reason for the delay? Thanks!


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

mtbkr678 said:


> Just canceled my order today. After 3weeks they still are not complete and have not shipped.
> 
> I'm going to just get some stan's instead. At least I know I will get them.


Hmmm I just ordered some beefy 26" rims a couple days ago... Nancy mentioned they were about 20 days out


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

these guys seem to be very accurate on stated delivery times.

they don't seem to mislead the customer in my experience.


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## mtbkr678 (Mar 10, 2004)

I ordered a pre build 29er wheel set from light bicycle. They first said we will have your order built in 10 days and send you a tracking number. After 12 days I emailed asking them what was going on and they replied that the rims just finished today and in 2 days they will ship.

After another 3 days another email asking what was up. Their reply was that they are on the build line and they did the QC check should be 2 more days.

2days later no tracking info I told them to cancel the order and give me a refund. The promised that they could "ship them tomorrow that they are being built today", funny I thought they were built? 

I just want my money back at this point.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Thank you for your reply. I seem to be in a similar mess, but I'll wait till 45 days pass. I wish I knew where to turn I case I end up without my rims...


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

mtbkr678 said:


> I ordered a pre build 29er wheel set from light bicycle. They first said we will have your order built in 10 days and send you a tracking number. After 12 days I emailed asking them what was going on and they replied that the rims just finished today and in 2 days they will ship.
> 
> After another 3 days another email asking what was up. Their reply was that they are on the build line and they did the QC check should be 2 more days.
> 
> ...


what were you afraid was gonna happen??


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## mtbkr678 (Mar 10, 2004)

bt said:


> what were you afraid was gonna happen??


I don't have to be afraid of anything now. They did the refund promptly.

I just don't like being told that things will happen in x number of days...then oh we need x number of days more...but we need more time.

If you can't deliver on your promises after 3 misquoted dates then you don't deserve my business no matter how cheap you are.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

mtbkr678 said:


> I don't have to be afraid of anything now. They did the refund promptly.
> 
> I just don't like being told that things will happen in x number of days...then oh we need x number of days more...but we need more time.
> 
> If you can't deliver on your promises after 3 misquoted dates then you don't deserve my business no matter how cheap you are.


could you possibly give me your order #?

i would like to try to buy them.

thanks


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Second that*



bt said:


> these guys seem to be very accurate on stated delivery times.
> 
> they don't seem to mislead the customer in my experience.


I ordered mine, and received them exactly two weeks later to the Bay Area, CA. I just got the Wide 29er rims, and didn't ask for anything special, such as extra beefy, or extra light. I just got off the rack rims.

BTW, I just did a good full ride on them this weekend, and they were flawless. Very laterally stiff, no steering squirm. I'd buy another set for the other bike in a minute (if I wasn't frickin broke at the moment).

I suggest that you just be patient. They are worth it. And, they won't fatigue around the (non) eyelets like Stan's will. :thumbsup:


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## jscottyk (Jun 3, 2009)

pimpbot said:


> Any Trek dealer. They're like $10 each.
> 
> I think you can order them from Bontrager: Components, Accessories, Apparel, and Shoes for Road, Mountain, and City Cycling as well.


The RLX 29er Rim Strip?

Here is the online Trek store where you can order them.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

It looks like demand must be ramping up. I ordered a pair 18 days ago and the rims are expected to ship later this week. (About 3 weeks from order to shipment)

My bet is that this company is going to see stratospheric sales growth. Carbon is about to go mainstream.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

Considering I can get a set of Rovals Control Trail SL 142+ for $1300-$1500 at my LBS, how much are the builds costing on these wheels?


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

irishpitbull said:


> Considering I can get a set of Rovals Control Trail SL 142+ for $1300-$1500 at my LBS, how much are the builds costing on these wheels?


totally depends on whether the in-house brand hubs are used or if someone is rockin' I9 hubs and spokes sorta thing..

my guess is between $750 to $1150 depending on products used..


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

jscottyk said:


> The RLX 29er Rim Strip?
> 
> Here is the online Trek store where you can order them.


rhythms if you get the wide rims


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Not sure, actually*



jscottyk said:


> The RLX 29er Rim Strip?
> 
> Here is the online Trek store where you can order them.


I saw my riding bud at the LBS, who built a pair Nancy-Wide-Car-boners for another client. He wasn't specific about which strips he used, but I assume it was the Rhythm strips. They only asked me if I had symmetrical or asymmetrical (OSB) rims. The carbons are obviously symmetrical. They gave me two symmetrical strips and I honestly have not had the time to mess with them to see if they were right. Eyeballing, them, they look wide enough, for whatever that's wroth. I might do try to install them in the next few days.

My bike related projects (for me and friends) are seriously starting to back up. I have to bring my carbon front wheel up to proper tension, repair my air compressor, fix a friend's LED Niterider MiNewt light, fix my gearing issues on my FS bike (the one with the carbon rims), replace the battery on my iPod Shuffle, and general maintenance on my singlespeed... not to mention, trying to get a night ride in this week and chase my kids around.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Definitely worth the wait. I ordered my 26er wide back in April, but with a full understanding that they were testing out newer material to make the composite stronger. I've purchased 50mm clincher road wheels from them a few months ago and they've been flawless.

FYI, this company, IMHO, is a better of the bunch for overseas purchase. If you ever need to send anything back for warranty, they have a company in New York that you ship to, thus saving quite a bit in shipping costs. But you would still need to wait for Nancy to re-ship the replacement from overseas.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

irishpitbull said:


> Considering I can get a set of Rovals Control Trail SL 142+ for $1300-$1500 at my LBS, how much are the builds costing on these wheels?


Depends on hubs used, spokes used, whether you build them yourself, or if a wheelbuilder builds them which includes the cost of services.

I had a pair of American Classic disc hubs that I cannibalized from an older set of AC 350 29"er wheels. Buying those hubs new today would be around $400-450. I also already had the Bontrager Rhythm strips and valves.

The rims were $155 each + $36 shipping = $346

LBS wheelbuild charge plus double butted spokes = $130 something or other

Obviously, since I already had the hubs, I had to shell out about $500 to get them built how I wanted them. With new hubs, my cost would have been about $900-950 or so with those particular hubs.

That's still less than the Rovals. Again - it all depends on your hub choice, spoke choice and who builds them (and what they charge). The Roval hubs are equivalent to DT Swiss 240's (for the most part). Figure a pair of DT 240 disc hubs would set you back about $600+ for a pair and you are at $1100 for the build. If you could find a pair of Rovals at $1100 - you would be at about a wash if going with DT Swiss 240 hubs.

BB


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## Bob12676 (Sep 10, 2008)

irishpitbull said:


> Considering I can get a set of Rovals Control Trail SL 142+ for $1300-$1500 at my LBS, how much are the builds costing on these wheels?


They can be built up very reasonably. I built mine with a set of LaserDisk Lite hubs, DT 14/15 DB spokes and DT alloy nipples. Total cost with shipping and linseed oil (for spoke prep) was under $690. $360 for the rims with shipping, $95 for spokes and nips, $212 for the hubs and $9 for the Linseed oil. Total weight is about 1650g without strips and valves.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

BruceBrown said:


> Snugger fit. The bead socket of the light-bicycle rim is not as gregarious (on its own) with a tubeless conversion as that of a NoTubes rim. The Bonty strip helps "correct" that.
> 
> That being said, with certain tires that are tubeless ready and have tight beads, getting away with yellow tape and valves probably is meeting with plenty of success. I didn't even try it as I went straight for the Bonty strips.
> 
> BB


I haven't read this thread in several weeks.

How did the Bonti rim strip tangent start? I have been riding these rims with yellow tape and Specialized 2Bliss tires for months&#8230;.phenomenal set up.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> I haven't read this thread in several weeks.
> 
> How did the Bonti rim strip tangent start? I have been riding these rims with yellow tape and Specialized 2Bliss tires for months&#8230;.phenomenal set up.


Not a tangent at all. Post #131 by IndyFab25 was very illustrative and instructive for me (as I wanted to use Schwalbe Nobby Nics on my carbon rims). That's the kind of testing one needs to do to secure a safe interface.

Post 800 is what started the "tangent" rolling again. In addition, I read several posts in early March about tires I consider very easy to mount up tubeless on a Stans rim that people were having a bit of difficulty getting mounted up on the Light-Bicycle rims. This led me to believe that going with the strip would end any of those woes quickly (as it did for me on my Blunts). To top that off, there were several pictures of the carbon bead area not being quite as uniform as one would have hoped (oodles of QC posts about this). And indeed, one of my rims has a small area where the uniform thickness is a tad narrow.

For safety's sake, and my years of converting just about anything to tubeless, all of the above led to my personal decision to bypass the yellow tape and go straight for the Rhythm strips (which I had on a pair of Blunt rims). And I have no qualms recommending to others the Bonty strips for the reasons in the post you quoted of mine. I tip my hat to IndyFab25 for starting the tangent in his Post #131 post with pictures.:thumbsup:

That's not to say yellow tape and valves alone are not sufficient as plenty of people are having success including yourself using that method, but when using the word "bombproof" and looking for the utmost in safety of a snug bead that makes airing up a piece of cake - I'll take the very small weight penalty of running the Bonty strips over the yellow tape. I'm running my Nobby Nics in the teens to low 20's and do not want to experience what IndyFab25 had happen with his Hans Dampf and yellow tape.

Yup, I'm a nerd - I read the entire frickin' thread before I made my original posts of being skeptical and finally weighing all the risks before buying a pair of the big hoops.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

bruce, what does the bonty strip do that makes tubeless better on a chinese carbon rim?

does it hold the tire bead to the rim more securely or does it allow for less burping when

the bead is momentarily pushed out of the rim by filling in the channel?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

BruceBrown said:


> Not a tangent at all. Post #131 by IndyFab25 was very illustrative and instructive for me (as I wanted to use Schwalbe Nobby Nics on my carbon rims). That's the kind of testing one needs to do to secure a safe interface.
> 
> Post 800 is what started the "tangent" rolling again. In addition, I read several posts in early March about tires I consider very easy to mount up tubeless on a Stans rim that people were having a bit of difficulty getting mounted up on the Light-Bicycle rims. This led me to believe that going with the strip would end any of those woes quickly (as it did for me on my Blunts). To top that off, there were several pictures of the carbon bead area not being quite as uniform as one would have hoped (oodles of QC posts about this). And indeed, one of my rims has a small area where the uniform thickness is a tad narrow.
> 
> ...


(as I wanted to use Schwalbe Nobby Nics on my carbon rims)

Must be the tires?

My post is 151. Been running them tubeless since the end of Jan&#8230;..

IME the rim strips are not necessary if you use the correct tire. But I see how you would want to use a rim strip if there was a tire that didn't fit snug.

Glad it worked out for you.....but think the rim strips are the exception and not the rule..


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> (as I wanted to use Schwalbe Nobby Nics on my carbon rims)
> 
> Must be the tires?


Not just the tires, but the variability in the rim makes the bead weak on some rims.



DeeZee said:


> IME the rim strips are not necessary if you use the correct tire. But I see how you would want to use a rim strip if there was a tire that didn't fit snug.
> 
> Glad it worked out for you.....but think the rim strips are the exception and not the rule..


Plan for the worst, hope for the best.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

bt said:


> bruce, what does the bonty strip do that makes tubeless better on a chinese carbon rim?
> 
> does it hold the tire bead to the rim more securely or does it allow for less burping when
> 
> the bead is momentarily pushed out of the rim by filling in the channel?


The strip has a UST profile, including the "bead lock" ridge at the inner edge of the bead seat.
It also necessarily adds some thickness, which adds to the tightness of the fit.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> The strip has a UST profile, including the "bead lock" ridge at the inner edge of the bead seat.
> It also necessarily adds some thickness, which adds to the tightness of the fit.


Yup. 'nuff said. The Bonty strips make these rims golden for TLR tires.

DeeZee may think they are not necessary, but in the end, we all have to judge what is or isn't required for our own personal safety choice with these rims.:thumbsup:

To be honest, I've only aired up the Nobby Nics on mine with the strips. And my post at the time wondered if the strips were even necessary the bead was so dang tight. I got that same tightness on my Roval rims with the Nobby Nics without a strip - so I know that the Roval rim differs in the bead and fit than the Light-Bicycle rims.

I imagine I could experiment with my stash of tires and find yellow tape and valves to be okay for certain combos. I'll stick with IndyFab25's recommendation and experimentation. Especially since I like to run low psi's. I run Nobby Nics, Racing Ralphs, Ikons, Raven 2.2's, Aspens, Ardents, Beavers, and Crossmarks. I'll eventually get around to swapping tires, but I will most likely leave the Bonty strips on because they make everything so dang easy.

BB


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

SlackBoy said:


> Curse you Melting featherfor making me look like the Re-Tard that I am.
> in my defense we don't really see the bonty strips very often down in NZ.
> 
> Personally I already have more than a few missing teeth, it'll just save on the docs when I need the rest out. Now if only Intense would hurry up with the new swingarm for my M9 so i can flick it off, I can get my falsies


Lol
:thumbsup:


----------



## crowash (Apr 14, 2011)

Hey All,
I’m a 26er rider but please don’t hold that against me, this thread seems to be the only one anywhere providing suitable expertise. 
I’d like to upgrade my Mavic 117 which came stock on my bike and can’t really justify the spend unless I drop some serious weight. My two options are:
1.	ZTR Arch ex with Hope Pro 2 hubs (wiggle or Jenson) (Claimed weight: 1585gm)
2.	Light Bike AM wheelset (Claimed weight 1340gm)
Costs work out about the same but claimed weights are different. But when I look at the weight of the rims (Light Bike – 380 for wide am) and Arch ex (400) it doesn’t account for much.
So that leaves the rest of the build to account for the weight differences. Pretty sure Novatec hubs aren’t going to be that much lighter than Hope 2 Pro (probably the opposite) what am I missing? Are light bike skimping on spoke quality?
Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Mutantclover (Oct 1, 2006)

crowash said:


> Hey All,
> I'm a 26er rider but please don't hold that against me, this thread seems to be the only one anywhere providing suitable expertise.
> I'd like to upgrade my Mavic 117 which came stock on my bike and can't really justify the spend unless I drop some serious weight. My two options are:
> 1.	ZTR Arch ex with Hope Pro 2 hubs (wiggle or Jenson) (Claimed weight: 1585gm)
> ...


Hope hubs are not exactly the lightest out there, around 185 and 285 grams each, as they are designed for any type of use. I would not be suprised at all if Novatec makes some lighter models. 26" Arch EX wheels with Hope hubs and DT Comps/alloy nipples would end up being around 1670 grams by my estimate.

I think the wheelset you were looking at that was 1340 grams was this one 26er MTB carbon wheel clincher - light-bicycle which is the narrow rim model and does appear to use weight weenie hubs. That weight makes sense given: DT Swiss Revolution spokes (-100 grams), 330 gram rims (-140 grams), 400 gram weight weenie hubset (-70 grams).

And the 1585 gram weight for Arch EX wheels you quoted is probably the factory Stans set, which probably does use lighter hubs than Hope.


----------



## crowash (Apr 14, 2011)

Mutantclover said:


> Hope hubs are not exactly the lightest out there, around 185 and 285 grams each, as they are designed for any type of use. I would not be suprised at all if Novatec makes some lighter models. 26" Arch EX wheels with Hope hubs and DT Comps/alloy nipples would end up being around 1670 grams by my estimate.
> 
> I think the wheelset you were looking at that was 1340 grams was this one 26er MTB carbon wheel clincher - light-bicycle which is the narrow rim model and does appear to use weight weenie hubs. That weight makes sense given: DT Swiss Revolution spokes (-100 grams), 330 gram rims (-140 grams), 400 gram weight weenie hubset (-70 grams).
> 
> And the 1585 gram weight for Arch EX wheels you quoted is probably the factory Stans set, which probably does use lighter hubs than Hope.


OK, great thank you, so it sounds like the light bike wheel build I was looking at would probably not stand up to AM like an Arch ex with Hope hub. Therefore an AM build in carbon would be pretty similarly priced and weighted to a Stans/Hope build. decisions, decisions.


----------



## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

It seems more people use clincher wheels, anybody use carbon tubular rims?


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Jason.MT said:


> It seems more people use clincher wheels, anybody use carbon tubular rims?


They exist, but $$$$. And, the tubular tires are also $$$$$.

But that is another topic.


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

BruceBrown said:


> Yup. 'nuff said. The Bonty strips make these rims golden for TLR tires.
> 
> DeeZee may think they are not necessary, but in the end, we all have to judge what is or isn't required for our own personal safety choice with these rims.:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Don't know&#8230;.my buddy is an endurance racer training and has put over 1,500 miles on those rims tubeless using nothing but rim tape. We both feel that these rims work as well as the Stan's rims.
However if it make some riders feel more comfortable that's great.

He likes them so much he stopped running his Rovals and wants to build up another set.


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*So....*



DeeZee said:


> Don't know&#8230;.my buddy is an endurance racer training and has put over 1,500 miles on those rims tubeless using nothing but rim tape. We both feel that these rims work as well as the Stan's rims.
> However if it make some riders feel more comfortable that's great.
> 
> He likes them so much he stopped running his Rovals and wants to build up another set.


Do we have a short list of popular XC race tires that DO tend to work w/o the bonty rim strips yet??

Would be nice to hear.

I am hoping the Sworks Renegades work w/o and also the RaRas.. Ideas?


----------



## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

As far as tires go, even with the same model tire there can be differences with the success of tubeless/mounting. For instance I ran Racing Ralph's SS 2.25 f/r all spring on my wheels. They both went on easy and no burping down to low 20's. I mounted a Rocket Ron on front, went on easy too but decided to go back to the Ralph but a new tire. I can not for the life of me get this tire to seat on the rim. I've tried every trick imaginable! I ordered the Bonty strips to see if that helps. 

Also, anyone who asks "how do the carbon rims compare to 'Brand X' Al rims"...if u are asking this question you have no idea the difference in a carbon rim. There is no comparison to make. Just order the carbon and you will never run an AL rim again!


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

rydbyk said:


> Do we have a short list of popular XC race tires that DO tend to work w/o the bonty rim strips yet??
> 
> Would be nice to hear.
> 
> I am hoping the Sworks Renegades work w/o and also the RaRas.. Ideas?


Many Specialized 2Bliss tires
Ignitor's
Nano's

to name a few.......


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> Do we have a short list of popular XC race tires that DO tend to work w/o the bonty rim strips yet??


I've got 50hrs on an Ikon EXO front and 30hrs on a Renegade Control rear, both with yellow tape. I'm more worried about cutting a sidewall on the Renegade than it burping. It fits slightly tighter than the Ikon. I have ridden this combination on some fairly rocky trails, but nothing super chunky. For me, I have already established a good track record with the Ikons on a couple of other rims (Arch, Crest, P35), but the Renegade is my first longer term dance with a Special'ed tire.

I can see why some of you all choose to run the Bonty strips, but to claim they are necessary is a stretch. Again, as others have noted, this is HIGHLY dependant on the tire AND the type of trails/riding you do. If I had these wheels on an AM rig, I'd probably be more likely to try the strips.

I don't see this as a tangent, but good conversation. It just seems to keep popping up about every 5 pages.


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Quick question, getting a new Tallboy and was thinking about having the stock wheel relaced with these rims. 

Here are the measurements on the stock rim, could the old spokes be used?

DIMENSIONS
ETRTO compatible size: 622 x 19
Recommended tyre widths: 1.50 to 2.30
Valve hole diameter: 8.5 mm, supplied with valve adapter
Recommended nipple length: 12 mm
Recommended rim tape: 622 x 20 x 0.6


----------



## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> Many Specialized 2Bliss tires
> Ignitor's
> Nano's
> 
> to name a few.......


Racing Ralph 29x2.4 and 29x2.25 SS
Nobby Nic 29x2.35 SS

I've been running those for the past months without burping but haven't dropped the pressure as I'm worried about damaging the rim..


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

figo said:


> Racing Ralph 29x2.4 and 29x2.25 SS
> Nobby Nic 29x2.35 SS
> 
> I've been running those for the past months without burping but haven't dropped the pressure as I'm worried about damaging the rim..


what psi are you running?


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> Quick question, getting a new Tallboy and was thinking about having the stock wheel relaced with these rims.
> 
> Here are the measurements on the stock rim, could the old spokes be used?
> 
> ...


Sell the stock wheels and build up a set of the carbon's

What I did


----------



## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> what psi are you running?


About 25 for 2.25 and 22 for the 2.4. I'm planning to experiment with lower pressure for the next week now that there is bit of time off from racing.


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> Sell the stock wheels and build up a set of the carbon's
> 
> What I did


The point of the question was to not have to spend that kind of money. I'm happy with the DT350 hubs, so I'd like to know if the spokes would work or not.


----------



## Rev. 14 (Jan 22, 2012)

DeeZee said:


> Sell the stock wheels and build up a set of the carbon's
> 
> What I did


Man that sure is a nice ride! So how long have you had the China Carbons? What type of hub did go with? What's the inner width on these wheels? I've been watching this because I'm concerned with durability and quality control issues. I would just hate to have an injury or get them and find out they won't bead up correctly. I have the same bike but in Red. It came with the WTB i19, everyone says these are a solid wheel at 435 grams and 32 hole. These have the DT Swiss 350 hubs. I too am considering these or a set of ZTR flows with CK's. I'd love to have some ENVY's but at the price I could buy another bike.


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> The point of the question was to not have to spend that kind of money. I'm happy with the DT350 hubs, so I'd like to know if the spokes would work or not.


I think I sold my stock / unused wheels for $400....then built up my new set for about $1,000.

So if you buy the rims for $400 and relace them the difference is minimal.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Quick question, getting a new Tallboy and was thinking about having the stock wheel relaced with these rims.
> 
> Here are the measurements on the stock rim, could the old spokes be used?


You need to know the ERD of the stock rims, which is not in your list. What kind of rims are they? The carbons are 602MM ERD. If you stockers are within 1mm of that, you can re-use the spokes.


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

Took me 7 weeks to get "heavier" 12k matte 29'er "wide" wheels built with the Novatect 881/882 hubs for 15mm/140*12 back in April/May. I did not weigh the wheels. Run them tubeless with stan's, Hans Damp 2.4. I have been beating on these and hitting high speed rock gardens. Have not had to even think about a spoke wrench yet. Never could have ridden some of this stuff and not had to at least true up a wheel (on a 26", the 29 is new to me), and most likely already seeing out of rounds. I'm very happy with them.....so far ! Especially for the $620 delivered I paid for them. Further research shows I could have saved 100g on the hubs (spec on these hubs is 196/400, but not sure if that includes an axle or not) but they look very nice and robust and are not really rotating weight. My roval wheels with the exact same cassette and rotors on them but Specialized Purgatory 2.2 tires also tubeless are 1.1 lbs lighter on a bathroom scale. Most of that is in the tires (350g based on published weight) so the wheels must be ~150g of that, and the Roval hubs are obviously lighter so that's where the weight is in my mind. They are also wider than the rovals, which is a good thing afaic.


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ktm520 said:


> You need to know the ERD of the stock rims, which is not in your list. What kind of rims are they? The carbons are 602MM ERD. If you stockers are within 1mm of that, you can re-use the spokes.


They are Mavic TN 719. Can't find the ERD on their site


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

TwoTone said:


> They are Mavic TN 719. Can't find the ERD on their site


I measured TN719s at 602mm.
My Nancy wides were 603mm.
It should work.


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Got weights for ya..*

I finally have my wheels:

Current race set up (never weighed before today):
Stan's Crest / I9 Front: 689g
Stan's Crest / I9 Rear: 882g
Total: 1571g (this includes weight of Stan's yellow tape and valve. also, I9 spokes used)

New Nancy Wides / DT Revos / Allow nips / Am Classic Front: 676g
Rear with same stuff: 807g
Total: 1483g (this includes weight of Stan's yellow tape and valve)

Weight savings: 88g fwiw


----------



## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

rydbyk said:


> I finally have my wheels:
> 
> Current race set up (never weighed before today):
> Stan's Crest / I9 Front: 689g
> ...


but youre also getting a much wider rim than the crest. I was comparing & debating them vs. the Flow EX rims personally


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

rydbyk said:


> Do we have a short list of popular XC race tires that DO tend to work w/o the bonty rim strips yet??
> 
> Would be nice to hear.
> 
> I am hoping the Sworks Renegades work w/o and also the RaRas.. Ideas?


Dunno... but with my (lack of) luck with tubeless, I'm not sure I trust that tire/rim interface. The few times I tried it, I got the tire to seat and seal up, I babysit it for a few days, pumping it up, letting it leak down a bit, until It no longer loses air. The, I would take it for a ride, and about 10 miles in it would lose enough air to burp air and make me put a tube in.

So, I'm going for as dead reliable as I can get, so I'm going to do Bonty rim strips. I just don't feel any of my tires are tight enough to run without it.

That said, I've got two full good long rides in on my front carbon rim with WTB Werewolf LT 2.55 tire with nothing but a Stan's tape rim strip and 60g of Stan's sealant, and it stayed put, even over some rocky fast descents and some moderate off-camber, and didn't lose any air. It did seep a bit of sealant around the bead that first ride.  Dunno if that is normal for a new tubeless install.

I'm still not sure I trust this setup, so I'm going to put a Bonty strip on it tonight... see if it makes me feel more warm, fuzzy and secure about it.

In the back of my mind, I still feel like it's going to fail at the worst moment, like the last rocky chute down Cinderella at JMP that I ride all the time.



FMX_DBC said:


> but youre also getting a much wider rim than the crest. I was comparing & debating them vs. the Flow EX rims personally


The Crest is a noodle. These carbon rims are definitely not noodley, and only slightly heavier... and much wider. :thumbsup:


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> I measured TN719s at 602mm.
> My Nancy wides were 603mm.
> It should work.


Thanks, what are peoples opinions on reusing spokes and nipples if the wheels are brand new?


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

TwoTone said:


> Thanks, what are peoples opinions on reusing spokes and nipples if the wheels are brand new?


Spokes are okay to reuse, as long as they aren't kinked or gouged by the chain or rocks.

I would just use new nipples. They are cheap enough, and get boogered up pretty easily.

Oh, you mean they are brand new donor wheels, and you want to re-use the nipples. Sure. I might do it if I was feeling cheapskate-ish... which is often. :thumbsup:


----------



## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

pimpbot said:


> They exist, but $$$$. And, the tubular tires are also $$$$$.
> 
> But that is another topic.


The clincher rims more cost than tubular, but true that tubular tires are expensive...


----------



## crowash (Apr 14, 2011)

bquinn said:


> Also, anyone who asks "how do the carbon rims compare to 'Brand X' Al rims"...if u are asking this question you have no idea the difference in a carbon rim. There is no comparison to make. Just order the carbon and you will never run an AL rim again!


Assuming you are reffering to stiffness and shock absorbtion as the main benefits?

If so I still need to make a comparison about Hub quality vs the benefits of carbon rims, its a bit hard to find out much about Novatech hubs and my budget isn't going to allow a wheel build from here in Oz.


----------



## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

rkappius said:


> I've seen multiple discussions of carbon 29er frames, but no such discussion of 29er rims. Current domestic carbon rims are more expensive than one of these frames. Anybody found carbon 29er clincher rims cheap?


29er carbon rims 23mm clincher, weight: 380g+-10g/pc, about $ 140-150/pc.


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Jason.MT, plesae don't tease like that! Where are these rims available?


----------



## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

giantdale said:


> Jason.MT, plesae don't tease like that! Where are these rims available?


ah, it's from China mainland, let's talk details if you have skype or email


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

OK, in a few days, after my light-bicycle saga resolves.


----------



## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

giantdale said:


> OK, in a few days, after my light-bicycle saga resolves.


 hey, you can share some photos of your light-bicycles when available. how light it is? this 29er rim is so far the lightest i seen, and good workmanship.


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Are you a paying sponsor of the site? If not, bad form


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Jason.MT said:


> 29er carbon rims 23mm clincher, weight: 380g+-10g/pc, about $ 140-150/pc.


If 23mm is the width, no thanks.


----------



## Yeroon (May 9, 2012)

You realize its 23mm internal width, right? And that most tires benefit from the wider rim?


----------



## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

ktm520 said:


> if 23mm is the width, no thanks.


*cough* @#$????? *sputter*


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

ktm520 said:


> If 23mm is the width, no thanks.


I think 23mm is the section depth. These asian manufacturers like to mention that in the titles. "50mm carbon clincher...", "88mm carbon tubular..." etc...


----------



## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

mattsavage said:


> I think 23mm is the section depth. These asian manufacturers like to mention that in the titles. "50mm carbon clincher...", "88mm carbon tubular..." etc...


ID is 23mm. Numbers like above usually refer to road/cross wheels.

For all these answers, and more, just read the thread! (I know, 67 pages. Took me all night. But well worth it for the information...)


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Bear Spleen said:


> ID is 23mm. Numbers like above usually refer to road/cross wheels.
> 
> For all these answers, and more, just read the thread! (I know, 67 pages. Took me all night. But well worth it for the information...)


23mm internal is for the Light-Bicycle rims that is talked about throughout this thread, the currently discussed rims are NOT the same as those

Jason.MT is a shill for carbonal, and is trying to sell his rims in this thread (the pics above that he calls 23mm) but who knows what that 23mm width refers to with his rims, could be depth, exterior, or interior width, the pics dont look as wide as the 23mm internal LB rims though


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Bear Spleen said:


> ID is 23mm. Numbers like above usually refer to road/cross wheels.
> 
> For all these answers, and more, just read the thread! (I know, 67 pages. Took me all night. But well worth it for the information...)


If there's a dimension in the title, then it's the section depth... Do a search on alibaba or aliexpress for carbon 29er clincher, all you get is profiles in the titles. Just don't want any noobs to be confused.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

clewttu said:


> Jason.MT is a shill for carbonal, and is trying to sell his rims in this thread


I wondered...
:skep:


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

I just bought and received a fork from a "Jason" from carbonality I think.

Fork looks nice and fast delivery.

every bit of 490mm a/c


----------



## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

clewttu said:


> 23mm internal is for the Light-Bicycle rims that is talked about throughout this thread, the currently discussed rims are NOT the same as those
> 
> Jason.MT is a shill for carbonal, and is trying to sell his rims in this thread (the pics above that he calls 23mm) but who knows what that 23mm width refers to with his rims, could be depth, exterior, or interior width, the pics dont look as wide as the 23mm internal LB rims though


hi guys, thanks, got a geometry show the size.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

jason.mt said:


> hi guys, thanks, got a geometry show the size.


n a r r o w!


----------



## karatemonkey (Mar 9, 2007)

*Paid Spam *

Gotta sell my BRAND NEW, never ridden carbon wheels, need the money more than the bling :'(

LB 30mm wide, 32h, UD matte finish
DT Swiss 240s hubs (15/20 - 135/142 convertible)
DT Swiss Supercomps
DT Swiss Alloy nips (gold)

sub 1600g

Just covering my costs...
29er Carbon wheels - DT Swiss 240s - 1570g - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


----------



## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

karatemonkey said:


> Gotta sell my BRAND NEW, never ridden carbon wheels, need the money more than the bling :'(
> 
> LB 30mm wide, 32h, UD matte finish
> DT Swiss 240s hubs (15/20 - 135/142 convertible)
> ...


Nice! just cost a little high. Complete carbon 29er wheels (use 380g rims) with best and light Novatec hub, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, Sapim self-securing nipples, weight: 1520+-10g/ pair.


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Jason.MT said:


> hi guys, thanks, got a geometry show the size.


 too narrow
Are these just the 23mm deep road rims on a disc hub, and renamed 29er?


----------



## karatemonkey (Mar 9, 2007)

Jason.MT said:


> Nice! just cost a little high. Complete carbon 29er wheels (use 380g rims) with best and light Novatec hub, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, Sapim self-securing nipples, weight: 1520+-10g/ pair.


I value quality over cost. Novatec is great if you don't.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

karatemonkey said:


> I value quality over cost. Novatec is great if you don't.


That's just super. :thumbsup:

*edit*

and somebody repped me, but said KM was a (insert bigoted slur here).

Hey, maybe I'm one of 'those' guys, maybe not. I have many friends and family members who 'are'. It does offend me tho, so keep your bigotry to yourself and knock it the F off. :madman:

Take your rep back if you're going to be like that.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

I'm itching to try one of these hoops. Not sure which finish/weave to choose as I don't know where to find pics comparing them. Can someone direct me to where I might find comparing pics? 

Also, is there any functional difference between the finish/weaves?

Thanks.


----------



## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

*my ones...*


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*It's all covered...*



Miker J said:


> I'm itching to try one of these hoops. Not sure which finish/weave to choose as I don't know where to find pics comparing them. Can someone direct me to where I might find comparing pics?
> 
> Also, is there any functional difference between the finish/weaves?
> 
> Thanks.


... in this thread. Just read back a few pages.

RTFT


----------



## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Or try the company's website


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*Well...*



pimpbot said:


> ... in this thread. Just read back a few pages.
> 
> RTFT


Went back several pages without luck. No doubt it's in there.

Anyway, got a super fast response, with pics, from the company - way faster service than I'm use to. If that is a hint as to the service I might get with the product, I'm sold.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

GTR-33 said:


> Listened to some of it and there was nothing really that interesting. Considering the entire podcast is THREE HOURS long I'll never hear the whole thing. What I did hear was just some guys gossiping and talking a lot of crap. They didn't really go into much detail about what is actually different about the two products. They just said they are cheap, use cheap carbon (if there is a such thing) and compared them to buying a fake Rolex. Well there are fake Rolex that are every bit as good at keeping time as a real Rolex and look the bill to boot. Somehow they also imply that rims being made to order is also a bad thing.
> 
> Listening to Envy talk about the benefits of buying their product is IMO akin to asking BMW why you shouldn't buy a MB. Of course they are only going to push their own product, they have a vested interest in pushing their own product. The fact that competition could be had for 1/6th of the price means that they absolutely HAVE to convince people that there is a substantial difference in quality and service.


I listened to this podcast while commuting and have to agree. The hosts advised against cheap carbon wheels direct from china but yet the only point offered as justification is that they're heavier than the real thing so you might as well buy the real thing. The entire argument was based upon a gut feeling.

Then the founder of Enve came on. He's a likable guy and runs a good company. Yet everything came across as marketing mumbo jumbo despite not being technical enough to make a convincing technical argument. It all boiled down to our products are better because... well there wasn't much of a because. He made a big deal out of molded instead of drilled holes. But i'm not convinced that this is a significant difference in the real world. I have yet to see a failure reported that would have anything to do with a drilled spoke hole.

The other point was that their process is superior. However he admitted to having no formal training and having started the company as an entrepreneur. I wouldn't be surprised if the chinese factories churning out OEM carbon components actually have more experience in the manufacturing process. Granted, Enve probably has the newer advances a little bit earlier.

This isn't a slam against Enve or the people on the podcast. It is a respectable podcast and Enve makes great products. However, after having listened to it and pondered what was said, I came away more in favor of products like the rims discussed in this thread. With our ever changing economy, I predict that factories and startups will be able to market their products directly to consumers without the massive markup currently being tolerated as normal. This is likely especially true with carbon based components. The bike industry is about to go through a massive change.

In other news, I received a tracking number! 
Order placed June 1st.
Order shipped June 22nd.


----------



## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

One question, are enve rims made in the USA?


----------



## karatemonkey (Mar 9, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> That's just super. :thumbsup:
> 
> *edit*
> 
> ...


Some people.  I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone by my post. I was simply expressing my opinion. Hell, my FS is rolling on Novatec hubs right now! This wheelset was going to be my upgrade from that one and I went with the best, that I thought I could afford.  Ride what you want and I'll ride what I want.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Miker J said:


> Went back several pages without luck. No doubt it's in there.
> 
> Anyway, got a super fast response, with pics, from the company - way faster service than I'm use to. If that is a hint as to the service I might get with the product, I'm sold.


http://forums.mtbr.com/9224994-post1021.html


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Ilikebmx999 said:


> One question, are enve rims made in the USA?


All their rims are. Some of their other components, such as handlebars and seatposts, are at least designed and prototyped in the USA.


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

well I am now sold that the bontrager rhythm strips are the best option for these rims.

when I deflate a tire on these rims the one that has the rhythm strip holds tight on the bead

but the other rim that only has yellow tape falls right off the bead.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

bt said:


> well I am now sold that the bontrager rhythm strips are the best option for these rims.
> 
> when I deflate a tire on these rims the one that has the rhythm strip holds tight on the bead
> 
> but the other rim that only has yellow tape falls right off the bead.


What tires are they?? The tires I have mounted with tape stay bead'ed when deflated. Again, depends on the tire.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

bt said:


> well I am now sold that the bontrager rhythm strips are the best option for these rims.
> 
> when I deflate a tire on these rims the one that has the rhythm strip holds tight on the bead
> 
> but the other rim that only has yellow tape falls right off the bead.


I think a better test is trying to mimic what could happen out on the trail. For instance, what Indyfab25 showed in post #131 is a good example. I will drop my psi down into the low teens and try to get the tire to burp with my hands or leaning the wheel at a sharp angle on the garage floor and really lean on it with all of my weight (trying to mimic an off camber sharp turn that could potentially be an 'on the trail burp' scenario). Why low teens? Even though I may start with my preferred psi (19-25 for most tires), one never knows what could happen out there for a little air loss (thorns, punctures, burps, failure to top of the air after a few days leading to starting with a lower psi than thought, etc...).

I know I can burp a Racing Ralph EVO (as an example) on my Flow rims with my bare hands at a lower psi, but I have yet to be able to burp the carbon rims with the Rhythm strip with my Nobby Nics at the same low psi that I can on the Ralph/Flow combo. That's not to say it couldn't happen out there by hitting a root or rock at a severe angle if my tire pressure drifts lower, but at least out of the gate the system seems to be fairly secure based on the mimic testing.

Of course - nobody is saying that one "has to" run these carbon rims tubeless to enjoy the benefits of what they provide in performance.:thumbsup:


----------



## anomaly (Jun 18, 2007)

Jason.MT said:


> hi guys, thanks, got a geometry show the size.


You are much better off investing in a new mold that produces rims with a 24mm ID and has a bead as similar to Stans as you can manage. People would much rather have the extra width and 20 extra grams of rim than run a rim that narrow.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Maybe, but...*



bt said:


> well I am now sold that the bontrager rhythm strips are the best option for these rims.
> 
> when I deflate a tire on these rims the one that has the rhythm strip holds tight on the bead
> 
> but the other rim that only has yellow tape falls right off the bead.


I did my rear wheel last night with a Bontrager rim strip. Before installing them, I weighed them... 42 grams each. Yikes! Add a stem (forgot the weight, but IIRC around 20g) and 60g of sealant, and you're well over the weight of a super light innertube.

It did feel nice and solid going on with the Bonty strip, tho. The bead thunked right into place, and the tire was seated squarely with no wobbles.

I dunno... I guess with the weight savings over my alu rims, I'm a bit lighter with the tubeless conversion, but not much.

And as I said before, for me tubeless isn't really a significant improvement, considering I almost never flat and run low pressure already. It's just going to make it harder to change tires around for the different places I ride.

I'll try out the tubeless thing for a bit. I might just switch back if I don't think the ride is any better. I'm still thinking at this point it's more PITA than benefit.

Anyway... I can't believe folks are whining about these rims aren't wide enough. They are plenty wide for XC and Trailbike use. They are a whole lot wider on the inside (where it matters) than the usual XC rims I use (Sun Inferno 23, DT Swiss X470, WTB SpeedDisc, etc), making a nicer tire footprint, and then the fat weight savings and added lateral stiffness to boot.

Maybe they'll come out with a 460g 30mm wide inside rim. Now that would be sweet. I'm not sure the freeride crowd is buying 29ers in big numbers yet, and they probably wouldn't go for carbon rims anyway, unless they were proven to be super tough in the bead area that takes a bottom-out hit.


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

No one's complaining about the LB rim width, the above post is referencing the carbonal rims sub 19mm ID that were posted a couple days ago


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Oh, my bad*



clewttu said:


> No one's complaining about the LB rim width, the above post is referencing the carbonal rims sub 19mm ID that were posted a couple days ago


but even then, if they are like sub 330g, a 19mm inside is an acceptable width for XC. IIRC, Bontrager Mustangs and DT X470s are 19mm inside. They would be good for a lightweight XC racer.


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

BruceBrown said:


> I think a better test is trying to mimic what could happen out on the trail. For instance, what Indyfab25 showed in post #131 is a good example. I will drop my psi down into the low teens and try to get the tire to burp with my hands or leaning the wheel at a sharp angle on the garage floor and really lean on it with all of my weight (trying to mimic an off camber sharp turn that could potentially be an 'on the trail burp' scenario). Why low teens? Even though I may start with my preferred psi (19-25 for most tires), one never knows what could happen out there for a little air loss (thorns, punctures, burps, failure to top of the air after a few days leading to starting with a lower psi than thought, etc...).
> 
> I know I can burp a Racing Ralph EVO (as an example) on my Flow rims with my bare hands at a lower psi, but I have yet to be able to burp the carbon rims with the Rhythm strip with my Nobby Nics at the same low psi that I can on the Ralph/Flow combo. That's not to say it couldn't happen out there by hitting a root or rock at a severe angle if my tire pressure drifts lower, but at least out of the gate the system seems to be fairly secure based on the mimic testing.
> 
> Of course - nobody is saying that one "has to" run these carbon rims tubeless to enjoy the benefits of what they provide in performance.:thumbsup:


that sounds like a good test.

I was surprised at the difference in bead grip with complete deflation though.


----------



## armara (Mar 19, 2011)

Hi,

Can someone let me know if the Gloss coating on the rims scratch easily? Will the Matt coating look better for longer on the 3K rims?

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## armara (Mar 19, 2011)

Hi, Would these work the same as the Bonty strips ( NoTubes All Mountain 29er Rim Strip)?

NoTubes All Mountain 29er Rim Strip | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

I am finding it impossible to find the Bonty Strips in Australia.

Thanks,
Mark

I needed to post this seperate as i only had 9 posts and needed 10 to post a link.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

armara said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can someone let me know if the Gloss coating on the rims scratch easily? Will the Matt coating look better for longer on the 3K rims?
> 
> ...


I dunno, I scratched my matte 3k rims when building them, when flexing the spokes around to get them to the right spoke holes. Point is, they scratch pretty easily anyway.

I would guess that gloss finish would show scratches more. Meh, just ride them a lot and keep them dirty... problem solved!! :thumbsup:


----------



## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

I'd say not every matte nor glossy coating is created equal, but in my experience a scratch on glossy finish is very easily removed by polishing.


----------



## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

Any trek bontrager dealer should be able to order in rythm strips in aus, I live in Townsville and our small trek shop already had them in stock


----------



## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

bt said:


> I just bought and received a fork from a "Jason" from carbonality I think.
> 
> Fork looks nice and fast delivery.
> 
> every bit of 490mm a/c


Hi Bro, happy to hear that you are satisfy with the rigid fork, thanks.


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

armara said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can someone let me know if the Gloss coating on the rims scratch easily? Will the Matt coating look better for longer on the 3K rims?
> 
> ...


Matte will show scractches more than gloss, as well as fingerprints, oil drips, etc...


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Fingerprints?

They would be the cleanest spots on my rims, if you could see them through the mud and scratches.

It is interesting to hear other people's buying criteria. Scratches and fingerprints never crossed my mind. Instead, I attempted to roughly match the finish on other components.


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

dfiler said:


> Fingerprints?


...Just saying... Matte finishes seem to show more blemishes than glossy...


----------



## maximum.minimum (May 4, 2007)

*Reliability/build*

I have a few questions

How are the pre-built wheelsets if anyone's gone that route? Have they held up to some abuse?

How do the carbon rims build up? Spoke tension? Are they an easy build in let's say 32H?


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

maximum.minimum said:


> I have a few questions
> 
> How are the pre-built wheelsets if anyone's gone that route? Have they held up to some abuse?
> 
> How do the carbon rims build up? Spoke tension? Are they an easy build in let's say 32H?


Yeah, I found them easy to build. I actually built them without a spoke tension meter, which was a mistake. At first, they were undertesioned, then I borrowed a bud's Park tension meter and misread the chart... and overtensioned them.  I actually got a couple of tiny cracks in the spoke bed. I backed off the tension to the correct amount, and they've been fine ever since. I got about 3 rides on them so far.

So yeah, if you build your own, I suggest a spoke tension meter, and know how to use it (and use the correct chart).


----------



## maximum.minimum (May 4, 2007)

*Hubs*

ahhhhh I have more questions for you all.

I need a rear 12x142 thru axle hub and a 20mm thru axle front.

Do any of the wheelset's from light bicycle work with a 20mm front or 12x142 rear?

Cheers


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

D881/D882 are convertible, specify what you want when you order or email about lead time, your specific axles were a cause for delay at one point


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> At first, they were undertesioned, then I borrowed a bud's Park tension meter and misread the chart... and overtensioned them.  I actually got a couple of tiny cracks in the spoke bed. I backed off the tension to the correct amount, and they've been fine ever since. I got about 3 rides on them so far.


How high was the tension when you "overtensioned" this wheel?? These rims are supposed to take 180kgf, but when it gets up around 130kgf, the nipples are so hard to turn I'm surprised you could go much higher without rounding heads on a standard square drive nipple.

Can you post a picture of the cracks you mention? I'll hold my tongue until I see something.


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

I've asked Nancy this but shes taking ages to get back to me - does anyone know details of the ply layup used for these rims? Like, is it all UD internal construction, alternating fibre directions etc?


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Wider Carbon 29er rims from light-bicycle.com

Order: June 1st
Shipped: June 22nd
Delivered: June 26th

Rim weights written on masking tape and stuck to the rim: 380g and 387g.
Rim weights on my scale: 380g and 388g

Interesting, the interior appears to have a carbon weave layer even though the exterior is UD.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Don't forget a number of hubs, designed for j bend spokes, only support so much spoke tension. Ex. Chris King hub's manual state a limit of 120 kgf.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Many pages of reading, and I may be ready to buy! Need to spend more time on their site and see if they offer a 23 ID rim, 32h, sub 380g rim real weight, tubeless ready, convertible front 9mm/15mm hub with 135 rear. Then add up the price with shipping. It'd be nice to get under 1550 grams and under $550 delivered. Unreal?

Only weigh 165 and using Crest/3.30 hubs/db/alloy (Stan's stock build). Happy thus far, but with the reports of "go carbon and you'll never go back to AL" has me thinking since the price is so darn good!


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

westin said:


> Need to spend more time on their site and see if they offer a 23 ID rim


Need to spend more time on who's site?


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Varaxis said:


> Don't forget a number of hubs, designed for j bend spokes, only support so much spoke tension. Ex. Chris King hub's manual state a limit of 120 kgf.


There is also no reason at all to build a 32-spoke wheel higher than that... or even that high, depending on who you ask. There is no upside, and the downside is higher stress on all the components.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Believe 22mm is inner width on carbon 29er wheel mountain bike clincher - light-bicycle

"Nancy" writes:

The hubs are ready to use as below:
They can be with front 9mm/rear 10*135mm(with qr), or front 15mm/rear 12*135mm(without quick release).

For example, when you buy front 9mm/rear 10*135mm, and you like to change to front 15mm or 20mm in the future, then you have to buy a convert kit.

They have 881/882 and no 9 series. 


mattsavage said:


> Need to spend more time on who's site?


----------



## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm assuming this 120 kgf number is referring to tension for the drive side and disc side spokes?


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

They are 23mm ID, the 881/882 are 4in1 as well, only difference between the 991/992 I can tell is that they are two tone vs one color


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

ktm520 said:


> How high was the tension when you "overtensioned" this wheel?? These rims are supposed to take 180kgf, but when it gets up around 130kgf, the nipples are so hard to turn I'm surprised you could go much higher without rounding heads on a standard square drive nipple.
> 
> Can you post a picture of the cracks you mention? I'll hold my tongue until I see something.


It was like a #24-25 on the Park tool on the high side, which translates to 140-160 kgf.  Yeah, it was tough to turn the nipples. I did use some Ti-Prep anti-seize on the threads and brass nipples.

I should have known I was doing something wrong.... dumbass! :madman:


----------



## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

Anyone tried on of their seatpost or bottle cages?


----------



## LeeL (Jan 12, 2004)

deleted - spambot now gone


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> It was like a #24-25 on the Park tool on the high side, which translates to 140-160 kgf.  Yeah, it was tough to turn the nipples. I did use some Ti-Prep anti-seize on the threads and brass nipples.
> 
> I should have known I was doing something wrong.... dumbass! :madman:


Perhaps we should be putting a 15% safety factor into the spoke tension ratings. Any big name rim manufacturer would be doing it, perhaps lightcycles's 180 kgf has no factor in it


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Triaxtremec said:


> Anyone tried on of their seatpost or bottle cages?


ordered one with my rims to replace the stock thudbuster on my fargo, just put it on the other day...nothing magical to report about it about it after one ride, it is what it is, but it was loads lighter than the that boat anchor, and i like the clamping mechanism as all ive ever had were the standard two bolt style
clamping bolt seems to be a pretty soft alloy though so ill prob look to replace it


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Veronica348 said:


> On-One will be selling carbon rims and prebuilt wheelsets in early 2011. News article here. The complete tubeless wheelset is projected to cost a bit over $1000, in other words not too much more than a single ENVE rim. I couldn't find the pricing info on the cheaper non-tubeless rim, but IIRC it was guesstimated at around $200 a rim


haha....ok..


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Timbo83 said:


> I've asked Nancy this but shes taking ages to get back to me - does anyone know details of the ply layup used for these rims? Like, is it all UD internal construction, alternating fibre directions etc?


Answering my own question here but just incase someone else is wondering, I had a reply from Nancy -

_For the inside layers, they are UD layers, but the degree is not all the same, some are 30 degree, some are 45 degree, and some are 90 degree. The design is made by our engineers.

Only the outer layer uses 3k/12 to make different outlook._

Sounds pretty good to me:thumbsup:


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Timbo83 said:


> Answering my own question here but just incase someone else is wondering, I had a reply from Nancy -
> 
> _For the inside layers, they are UD layers, but the degree is not all the same, some are 30 degree, some are 45 degree, and some are 90 degree. The design is made by our engineers.
> 
> ...


That's pretty standard for capet fiber parts. If you took off the outer cosmetic layer, it would look pretty messy, FWIU.


----------



## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Clewttu, I am a bigger guy and had problems with their clamp system, bolt too soft for adequate torque. Fyi bontrager has parts for their xxx seat posts that are perfect replacements and only like 10 bucks.


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

cool, thats actually what i had in mind since it looked to be an identical system, thanks for the heads up


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Nancy says the UD are ready to be built and shipped in 3 days. Presumably that means 3k and 12K are backordered. I really wanted 3K, but if UD is ready.....


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> That's pretty standard for capet fiber parts. If you took off the outer cosmetic layer, it would look pretty messy, FWIU.


Any speculation as to why it looks like a 3k weave on the inside of my UD rims?

The picture I posted earlier isn't great but it really does appear like a 3k weave when looking through any of the spoke holes.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> It was like a #24-25 on the Park tool on the high side, which translates to 140-160 kgf.  Yeah, it was tough to turn the nipples. I did use some Ti-Prep anti-seize on the threads and brass nipples.
> 
> I should have known I was doing something wrong.... dumbass! :madman:


So, are you going to leave us hanging in regards to the cracks??

I wouldn't consider 160kgf overtensioned, and this shouldn't have caused any cracking . . . if the manufacturers 180kgf spec is good. I see no reason that spec isn't good considering the wall thickness of the rim around the spoke hole is 2x that of a comparable aluminum rim.

I'll speculate that the 3k ply on the inner surface of the cavity is there due to the molding process. They use a plyable bladder to apply pressue in the cavity and I remember seeing some pictures (from a different factory) that showed the bladder having a 3k ply wrapped around it before being placed in the mold. This would be hard to do with a ud ply and not split it when the bladder grows.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

ktm520 said:


> So, are you going to leave us hanging in regards to the cracks??
> 
> I wouldn't consider 160kgf overtensioned, and this shouldn't have caused any cracking . . . if the manufacturers 180kgf spec is good. I see no reason that spec isn't good considering the wall thickness of the rim around the spoke hole is 2x that of a comparable aluminum rim.
> 
> I'll speculate that the 3k ply on the inner surface of the cavity is there due to the molding process. They use a plyable bladder to apply pressue in the cavity and I remember seeing some pictures (from a different factory) that showed the bladder having a 3k ply wrapped around it before being placed in the mold. This would be hard to do with a ud ply and not split it when the bladder grows.


I'll clean it up and take macro pics tonight. Sorry... been busy.


----------



## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> There is also no reason at all to build a 32-spoke wheel higher than that... or even that high, depending on who you ask. There is no upside, and the downside is higher stress on all the components.


My builder went to 80kgf and not a single issue here!


----------



## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

I just received my 2 wide 26" rims. Weights are 348gr and 358gr. Hubs are 253gr for the rear and 163 for the front. 28 holes. So I now need to decide what spokes would be best for me. I'm 135lbs. I am trying to go for as light as possible without compromising on solidity... Open to suggestions!

Johnnydrz


----------



## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

Johnnydrz, DT Swiss AeroLite or Sapim CX-Ray. I'm for Aerolite.
but really it depends on rider's weight.


----------



## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Tonight I installed the Bonty rim strips and WOW, pretty impressive.
I had ridden my wheels with Racing Ralphs tubeless for 3 or 4 weeks and had no problem without the strips but noticed that at 17 psi (front) I could get the tire to burp by pressing very hard in the sidewalls with my thumbs.
On first install, I had some air leaking past the valve, so added a dab of goop between the valve and strip and that solved the issue.
The hard part was getting the (plastic) tire irons back under the tire bead after the rim strip was installed.......so tight and I didn't want to damage anything. Changing tires will definitely take some time.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*Question:*

Just pulled the trigger on a pair of Nancy's "wider" 29er rims and it's 12 days out. Woo hoo! 

So, I ran thru DT Swiss' Spoke Calc to get an idea of the weights. At an estimated 400g w/ a set of Kings...15mm LD front and 142x12 rear w/ SS drive shell, DT Revo spokes in a 32h 3x on both and alloy nips. The wight that was calc'd was 1625g. Is this heavy, light, medium? I don't have any basis for comparison in the 29er size...it would be considered pretty respectable for an AM class wheelset in the 26er world since my Reynolds MTN-C carbons are ~ 1450g. What would be a pretty typical wheelset weight? Thanks.


----------



## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

Pau11y said:


> Just pulled the trigger on a pair of Nancy's "wider" 29er rims and it's 12 days out. Woo hoo!
> 
> So, I ran thru DT Swiss' Spoke Calc to get an idea of the weights. At an estimated 400g w/ a set of Kings...15mm LD front and 142x12 rear w/ SS drive shell, DT Revo spokes in a 32h 3x on both and alloy nips. The wight that was calc'd was 1625g. Is this heavy, light, medium? I don't have any basis for comparison in the 29er size...it would be considered pretty respectable for an AM class wheelset in the 26er world since my Reynolds MTN-C carbons are ~ 1450g. What would be a pretty typical wheelset weight? Thanks.


Yes this is a light setup for chris kings but bear in mind hub weight doesn't contribute much to the rotating weight when you ride! Your chris king wheels are lighter than mine, our only difference is I used DT comp spokes.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Joel RW said:


> Yes this is a light setup for chris kings but bear in mind hub weight doesn't contribute much to the rotating weight when you ride! Your chris king wheels are lighter than mine, our only difference is I used DT comp spokes.


Thanks Joel. 
Well, my weight was based only on Nancy's datasheet of designed rim weight (400g), and some best guess and addition to the standard CK ISO hub. When I ordered, I told her that I'd take a heavier rim, up to 425g, but not lighter since the build will be a stouty Tallboy LTc. So chances are, they'll turn out heavier. And yeah, rotational mass and all... 
The planned rubber will be a set of Trail King 2.2s so not exactly the best choice for the weight conscious. I was only curious of that weight in relation to other 29er wheels.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Just pulled the trigger on a pair of Nancy's "wider" 29er rims and it's 12 days out. Woo hoo!
> 
> So, I ran thru DT Swiss' Spoke Calc to get an idea of the weights. At an estimated 400g w/ a set of Kings...15mm LD front and 142x12 rear w/ SS drive shell, DT Revo spokes in a 32h 3x on both and alloy nips. The wight that was calc'd was 1625g. Is this heavy, light, medium? I don't have any basis for comparison in the 29er size...it would be considered pretty respectable for an AM class wheelset in the 26er world since my Reynolds MTN-C carbons are ~ 1450g. What would be a pretty typical wheelset weight? Thanks.


Depends on your definition of "typical"? Plenty of weights, pictures and wheels have been posted in this loooooooooonnnnnngggg thread.

In my case - whether it is typical or not - I used American Classic disc hubs with double butted Wheelsmith spokes on my AM rims and the wheels totaled 1540g before tape and valves (or in my case, strip and valves).





I convert the front hub back and forth between 9mm QR and 15mm TA depending on which bike the wheels are being used.

BB


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Depends on your definition of "typical"? Plenty of weights, pictures and wheels have been posted in this loooooooooonnnnnngggg thread.


Thanks BB! 
Digging thru 50+ pages...
Yeah, you can call me lazy  But after seeing your pic, maybe I'll just cruise thru and look for photos 

Say, how much do you weigh and is your riding style flowy or point/plow?


----------



## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

BruceBrown said:


> Depends on your definition of "typical"? Plenty of weights, pictures and wheels have been posted in this loooooooooonnnnnngggg thread.
> 
> In my case - whether it is typical or not - I used American Classic disc hubs with double butted Wheelsmith spokes on my AM rims and the wheels totaled 1540g before tape and valves (or in my case, strip and valves).
> 
> ...


Did you get the matte finish?


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Nice!*



Pau11y said:


> Just pulled the trigger on a pair of Nancy's "wider" 29er rims and it's 12 days out. Woo hoo!
> 
> So, I ran thru DT Swiss' Spoke Calc to get an idea of the weights. At an estimated 400g w/ a set of Kings...15mm LD front and 142x12 rear w/ SS drive shell, DT Revo spokes in a 32h 3x on both and alloy nips. The wight that was calc'd was 1625g. Is this heavy, light, medium? I don't have any basis for comparison in the 29er size...it would be considered pretty respectable for an AM class wheelset in the 26er world since my Reynolds MTN-C carbons are ~ 1450g. What would be a pretty typical wheelset weight? Thanks.


That is medium-light for a set of XC wheels...

You can compare the published weights with any of the prefab wheels out there, like FSAs, Bontragers, SunRingles, etc.

but....

These are quite a bit stiffer than your 19mm internal width aluminum XC wheels, more like trailbike, almost freeride wheels. They are a bunch wider for better tire footprint, and lower pressures. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

As far as durability, I have no idea, but I would guess that they are going to be a bunch stronger (as in, take more abuse without failing) than your regular kinda XC wheel.

So far, I'm digging my NancyWiderCarbon rims. (NWC?). My bike is feeling more point-and-shoot through rocky bits, and still feels snappy.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> That is medium-light for a set of XC wheels...
> but.... are quite a bit stiffer than your 19mm internal width aluminum XC wheels, more like trailbike, almost freeride wheels. They are a bunch wider for better tire footprint, and lower pressures. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> As far as durability, I have no idea, but I would guess that they are going to be a bunch stronger (as in, take more abuse without failing) than your regular kinda XC wheel.


Thanks PB. 
My goals w/ this wheelset/bike is def NOT XC, but not quite to FR either. I'm thinking that it'll straddle a trail bike and a medium-duty AM bike. Coming from a DH background, it's hard to NOT point/plow. I'm doing carbon to deal w/ the acceleration lag...less mass at the outer perimeter to get quicker spin-ups...at least to better my big bike wheel's spin-up lag. I think this is also why I'm perplexed when ppl complain about the sluggish turning of a 29er vs a 26. You have no idea what slow turning is until you've thrown around an 8" dual crown 40lbs plow machine at low speeds!


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

I ordered my second set of rims the other day. 32H matte, wide, normal weight. I just bought some hadley hubs to mount these to. I have not ever had a hub with such high engagement. I will be thoroughly stress testing these wheels at my weight. My current set was layered up for clydes, this set will be normal. I am counting on continued weight loss.


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

Perfect Gentleman said:


> Johnnydrz, DT Swiss AeroLite or Sapim CX-Ray. I'm for Aerolite.
> but really it depends on rider's weight.


Thanks Perfect Gentleman, I just ordered Aerolite spokes.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I managed to destroy one of these rims while pumping up a tubeless setup tonight. 

There I was, moments from riding my new bike... BOOM! Tire blows off of the rim. 

My eardrums ring and i'm deaf for a couple of minutes. Limbs and digits? Check. Whew. Just bruised fingers, thighs and a shin gouge like I normally get from pedal strikes. 

And that's it, one of my new wheels is obliterated. As long as the ringing in my right ear stops, I'll feel pretty lucky. And stupid... while cleaning Stans off of the ceiling.

Admittedly, I had it pumped up to 70psi and the tire was rated to only 65psi. That's my normal procedure while seating a new tire. Or at least it was up until today. I'll have to reevaluate my technique. ;-)


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Wow, that sucks!*



dfiler said:


> I managed to destroy one of these rims while pumping up a tubeless setup tonight.
> 
> There I was, moments from riding my new bike... BOOM! Tire blows off of the rim.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that.

But yeah, 70 psi - bad.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> But yeah, 70 psi - bad.


Yeah, I take responsibility for doing that. While I've been doing it for over 20 years, it was probably the wrong thing to be doing all of that time.

Is it common for rims to disintegrate at 70 psi?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm sure you already know what you did wrong, but to reiterate to those who have no clue, you don't need any more than 40PSI to seat a tire. I've replaced my tires three times on these rims(using Bonty strips) and the most I've needed was 35PSI for a new Schwalbe NobbyNic. Once you hit 40PSI, take a look at the tire to see if it's seated. Just because there's no POP sound doesn't mean it didn't seat! IF it hasn't seated at 40PSI, usually some smacking the tire on the ground will get it to seat. In my countless tubeless setups with all kinds of tires and rims, 40+PSI just isn't necessary...

Thank you for admitting to destroying it by making a mistake We definitely don't need any false information floating around for these awesome rims that so many people still seem to be skeptical of.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> I managed to destroy one of these rims while pumping up a tubeless setup tonight.
> 
> There I was, moments from riding my new bike... BOOM! Tire blows off of the rim.
> 
> ...


70 psi is out of control.
no reason for that.
sucks that you learned the hard way.
thanks for posting the carnage. :thumbsup:


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Not to beat a dead horse, but as an example the Stans ArchEx rims specify not to exceed 40 PSI. Wonder what would happen to that rim at 70 PSI?!

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

dfiler said:


> Admittedly, I had it pumped up to 70psi and the tire was rated to only 65psi. That's my normal procedure while seating a new tire. Or at least it was up until today. I'll have to reevaluate my technique. ;-)


The problem is the 70psi... Tubeless for mountain bikes allows you to run less pressure. Tires are rated to 65psi with a tube in it, riding on a fire road.

Tubeless is completely different some tires even say on them what their tubeless pressure is. 40psi MAX or it will blow off. If it's not seated at 40psi it isn't going to seat. I hate to say it but you ruined it all by yourself due to your own ignorance.

The problem wasn't the rim. The problem with the rim happened because the tire blew off. The tire blew off because there was more than twice the recommended tubeless pressure in it.

Take down the photos and warranty it. Don't mention that you put that much air in it. It shouldn't have destroyed the rim.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Go ahead, beat me up. I used too much pressure.

But I am honest and will pay for the replacement. The pictures will serve as warning to other people who might be seating their tires with extra pressure. As indicated here, this is especially bad for tubeless setups. While it was never a problem for me with dozens of rims in the past, it was this time. Probably because of the tubeless.

I sent pictures to light-bicycle. Perhaps they too will include a warning about not going near the max psi.


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## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

Looks like when the tire blew off the rim the friction delaminated the carbon plies. A load it's not designed to take. Plies of carbon can be easy to peel off one another if you get a sharp object and split it like a log splitter in the end grain. 

Could be a sign they are using lower spec. cold cure layups rather than the more expensive hot cure prepregs with much higher peel strength?


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

GTR-33 said:


> The problem is the 70psi... Tubeless for mountain bikes allows you to run less pressure. Tires are rated to 65psi with a tube in it, riding on a fire road.
> I hate to say it but you ruined it all by yourself due to your own ignorance.
> 
> The problem wasn't the rim. The problem with the rim happened because the tire blew off. The tire blew off because there was more than twice the recommended tubeless pressure in it.
> ...


really?


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

dfiler, you mentioned you had gouges in your shin. Was that from pieces of carbon breaking off and cutting you?

BTW, I admire your mea culpa attitude in a forum like this.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

There didn't appear to be any shrapnel in the mess I mopped up. My guess is that the rim, rotor or tire impacted me. The tire ended up through a doorway in another room. I've got some pretty interesting bruises and abrasions. But it appears that the rim remained in one piece, shattered but still in one piece.


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## SparxFlyer (Dec 29, 2010)

Surfdog93 said:


> Tonight I installed the Bonty rim strips and WOW, pretty impressive.
> I had ridden my wheels with Racing Ralphs tubeless for 3 or 4 weeks and had no problem without the strips but noticed that at 17 psi (front) I could get the tire to burp by pressing very hard in the sidewalls with my thumbs.
> On first install, I had some air leaking past the valve, so added a dab of goop between the valve and strip and that solved the issue.
> The hard part was getting the (plastic) tire irons back under the tire bead after the rim strip was installed.......so tight and I didn't want to damage anything. Changing tires will definitely take some time.


I am having the same air leak issue around the valve stems using the Light Bicycles rim and Bonty strips. I think I've cured it on one but the other leaks like a sieve, despite applying latex around the valve stem and cranking down on the knurled nut. The valve stem I am using is a Stan's with the rubber base. I tried the Bonty version (metal with an o-ring) first but it was much worse.

The tires (Nobby Nic 2.35 (rear) and Ardent 2.4 (front)) seat up very tightly and the bead is popping into place around 25 PSI. The easiest way I've found to get them on and off (I've been trying for a while! :madman is to ensure they're pulled off the bead and into the center channel all the way round.

Any suggestions on this? I'm about set to get remove the strip on my front tire and see if I can get it to seal up... I have a big ride planned for tomorrow and would really like to use the new wheels!


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## kingair (Jun 2, 2008)

GTR-33 said:


> Take down the photos and warranty it. Don't mention that you put that much air in it. It shouldn't have destroyed the rim.


Shameful


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## sonypete (Jun 15, 2008)

GTR-33 said:


> The problem is the 70psi... Tubeless for mountain bikes allows you to run less pressure. Tires are rated to 65psi with a tube in it, riding on a fire road.
> 
> Tubeless is completely different some tires even say on them what their tubeless pressure is. 40psi MAX or it will blow off. If it's not seated at 40psi it isn't going to seat. I hate to say it but you ruined it all by yourself due to your own ignorance.
> 
> ...


I give dfiler props for coming out like this. He never claimed it the was the rim's fault. Sounds like someone is twisting his comments just so they can make a rebuttal. I only see one hint of ignorance and it wasn't in any of dfilers posts.

Dfiler, I appreciate owning up, to prevent bad quality rumors. I'm waiting for my carbon rim as we speak.


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## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

*Fracture on my wide rim *

I put a small fracture in the rim on my back wheel yesterday climbing uphill, I was carrying speed through a pinch climb, came across a water diverting bump that gave me a bit of air I landed on a bad angle and heard a crack. I had about 27 psi in the back tire, tubeless and I weigh around 170 / 76kg

I checked it out and felt a small bump where the fibers had separated, thought **** it and rode another 4 hours through rock gardens, off some 5ft drops to flat repeatedly.... the main intention was to break the rim, did not succeed.

The fracture is sort of a Y shape, it's only on the outside of the rim, the crack does not move inside the rim. I have taken photos of when it happened and after I cleaned it up a bit, I have no intention of sending it back but I will email "nancy" a picture and see what we can work out. I plan to continue riding as hard as I normally do and see how it holds up!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

dfiler said:


> I managed to destroy one of these rims while pumping up a tubeless setup tonight.
> 
> There I was, moments from riding my new bike... BOOM! Tire blows off of the rim.
> 
> ...


Did you request the stronger carbon rims with additional carbon fibre or were they the standard rims? The reinforced rims can probably take more pressure (see hogprint's posts).

This is something that's mentioned a few pages back in this thread. You need to be careful of inflating the tyres too much. With a carbon fibre rim over inflating the tyre can potentially cause a failure like yours. DukeNeverwinter split a carbon rim using it at higher pressure also.

The very similar looking Roval carbon MTB rims are only rated for a maximum tyre inflation pressure of 45psi.

http://forums.mtbr.com/9185575-post926.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/9186429-post928.html

.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The broken rim was the standard version weighing in at 387g.

I did tons of reading on tubeless before attempting it on my new build. Yet somehow I managed to miss the part about tubeless setups destroying rims at high pressure. It is frequently mentioned that it is possible to run a lower pressure, but I don't remember seeing warnings to not exceed 40 or 45 psi. This isn't to say that the companies involved were negligent. Just noting that I managed to miss that detail.

A replacement pair is already on order so I'll report back in a few weeks with how it works out the second time around.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Man I know that feeling. Several years ago I had a Vulpine blow of a Stan's Arch once. Ripped my thumbnail off and the inside of my garage door still looks like a grisly murder scene from the old and browned sealant splatter. I stopped using 100psi to seat MTB tires after that...

I'm surprised that at 70 it let go.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*No need to be a D!ck about it.*



GTR-33 said:


> The problem is the 70psi... Tubeless for mountain bikes allows you to run less pressure. Tires are rated to 65psi with a tube in it, riding on a fire road.
> 
> Tubeless is completely different some tires even say on them what their tubeless pressure is. 40psi MAX or it will blow off. If it's not seated at 40psi it isn't going to seat. I hate to say it but you ruined it all by yourself due to your own ignorance.
> 
> ...


Geez... dude made a mistake and manned up to it.

Dude... don't abuse the warranty process. It just makes mfgs want to give less warranty, or deny legitimate warranty claims. :nono:

I gotta say, tho. It would have been nice if Light-Bicycles included some documentation with the rims, or at least posted it on the website. I got two rims, some packing material, a receipt and a box... that's it. There is like zero information on these rims, unless you email Nancy and ask. It would be very easy for somebody who didn't know one little detail to destroy an expensive rim (like in this case). One little simple slip of paper in the box could have prevented this. It's just good customer service.

I wish they included:

Max and recommended spoke tension range for various popularly used spokes. 
ERD
Max inflation pressure
tips on how to convert to tubeless


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

SparxFlyer said:


> I am having the same air leak issue around the valve stems using the Light Bicycles rim and Bonty strips. I think I've cured it on one but the other leaks like a sieve, despite applying latex around the valve stem and cranking down on the knurled nut. The valve stem I am using is a Stan's with the rubber base. I tried the Bonty version (metal with an o-ring) first but it was much worse.
> 
> The tires (Nobby Nic 2.35 (rear) and Ardent 2.4 (front)) seat up very tightly and the bead is popping into place around 25 PSI. The easiest way I've found to get them on and off (I've been trying for a while! :madman is to ensure they're pulled off the bead and into the center channel all the way round.
> 
> Any suggestions on this? I'm about set to get remove the strip on my front tire and see if I can get it to seal up... I have a big ride planned for tomorrow and would really like to use the new wheels!


Latex water-based bathroom caulk. Put a bead around the stem, put it in loosely, just so the parts mate up and don't tighten it down yet. Let it set up until the caulk just starts to get a skin, then tighten it down and let it set up the rest of the way for a few hours before putting sealant in and airing it up.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Joel RW said:


> I put a small fracture in the rim on my back wheel yesterday climbing uphill, I was carrying speed through a pinch climb, came across a water diverting bump that gave me a bit of air I landed on a bad angle and heard a crack. I had about 27 psi in the back tire, tubeless and I weigh around 170 / 76kg
> 
> I checked it out and felt a small bump where the fibers had separated, thought **** it and rode another 4 hours through rock gardens, off some 5ft drops to flat repeatedly.... the main intention was to break the rim, did not succeed.
> 
> The fracture is sort of a Y shape, it's only on the outside of the rim, the crack does not move inside the rim. I have taken photos of when it happened and after I cleaned it up a bit, I have no intention of sending it back but I will email "nancy" a picture and see what we can work out. I plan to continue riding as hard as I normally do and see how it holds up!


What is "a bad angle"? Does that mean it was onto the edge of a rock or something? How much air/speed were you carrying?

Seems like you were running the psi at a not so risky level, concerning if it would crack with your weight at a water bar


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## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

Timbo83 said:


> What is "a bad angle"? Does that mean it was onto the edge of a rock or something? How much air/speed were you carrying?
> 
> Seems like you were running the psi at a not so risky level, concerning if it would crack with your weight at a water bar


I just came down hard on the seat a bit sideways, didn't crash, the tire felt very firm and actually had more air in it than I usually run too... I still rode it hard the rest of the day and the visible damage wasn't any worse.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Thanks BB!
> Digging thru 50+ pages...
> Yeah, you can call me lazy  But after seeing your pic, maybe I'll just cruise thru and look for photos
> 
> Say, how much do you weigh and is your riding style flowy or point/plow?


180-185. Depends on what bike. Flowy on less suspension, point and plow on the RIP 9 where the rims currently are residing with 2.35 Nobby Nics.



FMX_DBC said:


> Did you get the matte finish?


It's not the glossy finish if that's what you mean.


----------



## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> Geez... dude made a mistake and manned up to it.


The point of my post wasn't to be a dick but to instead help spread the information that you can't put that much in a tubeless tire. It's vital piece of information that NO ONE ever talks about. It's always an afterthought. Most people, even those that own tubeless products don't seem to know this.

As for my statement of warranty... You cannot honestly say that people don't try to get away with much worse. If I had a nickel for every bike that was damaged and I warrantied that was just riding along... In my opinion the rim shouldn't have failed so it's a legitimate claim.

It's really easy to be whatever you want to appear to be anonymously over the internet though isn't it?


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

dfiler said:


> It is frequently mentioned that it is possible to run a lower pressure, but I don't remember seeing warnings to not exceed 40 or 45 psi. This isn't to say that the companies involved were negligent. Just noting that I managed to miss that detail.


The 40 psi max (or whatever number is used for various tubeless wheel brands) for mountain bike tires is a pretty standard rule of thumb for those of us who have run tubeless for years that most of us learned from NoTubes.com or in various discussions/posts. NoTubes has had that warning on their site for years when it comes to mountain bike tires.

Sorry you had a rim fail, but I guess it's safe to say it won't happen in the same manner again. I had the same thing happen with a Bontrager rim on my Trek 8000 back in 2002 when I took the pressure too high with a tube and the light weight race rim exploded. Not fun, but it at least led me to upgrading to disc brakes as I ditched the rim braking surface rims and all worry of rim wear through due to riding in muddy conditions.


----------



## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

dfiler said:


> Go ahead, beat me up. I used too much pressure.
> 
> But I am honest and will pay for the replacement. The pictures will serve as warning to other people who might be seating their tires with extra pressure. As indicated here, this is especially bad for tubeless setups. While it was never a problem for me with dozens of rims in the past, it was this time. Probably because of the tubeless.
> 
> I sent pictures to light-bicycle. Perhaps they too will include a warning about not going near the max psi.


I'm not trying to beat you up about anything... My point is that you can't put that much pressure in ANY tubeless tire on ANY rim. Not just carbon. It worked before because there was a tube pressing the sidewall of the tire on the rim. You don't have that with tubeless.

There is tubeless for road bikes too and guess what. You can't put 120psi in it.


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

GTR-33 said:


> The point of my post wasn't to be a dick but to instead help spread the information that you can't put that much in a tubeless tire. It's vital piece of information that NO ONE ever talks about. It's always an afterthought. Most people, even those that own tubeless products don't seem to know this.
> 
> As for my statement of warranty... You cannot honestly say that people don't try to get away with much worse. If I had a nickel for every bike that was damaged and I warrantied that was just riding along... In my opinion the rim shouldn't have failed so it's a legitimate claim.
> 
> It's really easy to be whatever you want to appear to be anonymously over the internet though isn't it?


your not supposed to drink the bong water, dude.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Oh...*



GTR-33 said:


> As for my statement of warranty... You cannot honestly say that people don't try to get away with much worse. If I had a nickel for every bike that was damaged and I warrantied that was just riding along... In my opinion the rim shouldn't have failed so it's a legitimate claim.


...I'm well aware of folks trying to get away with 'much worse'. That doesn't excuse bad behavior just because somebody is doing 'much worse'.


----------



## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

Could someone help me out please?

I currently have the Stan's Crest 29er rim & I would like to try out the Chinese carbon rim on my front but my front wheelset is pretty new and the spokes are rare & expensive. Are there any rims mentioned here that would be able to use back the same spokes as my Crests? Any recommendations are greatly appreciated & thanks in advance.


----------



## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

FireSpitter said:


> Could someone help me out please?
> 
> I currently have the Stan's Crest 29er rim & I would like to try out the Chinese carbon rim on my front but my front wheelset is pretty new and the spokes are rare & expensive. Are there any rims mentioned here that would be able to use back the same spokes as my Crests? Any recommendations are greatly appreciated & thanks in advance.


Well the rims that are being discussed here are mainly the ones from nancy at light-bicycle. The ERD for light-bicycle is 603mm and the Crest 29er is 605mm. Good chance that it MIGHT work...

What spokes are you using?


----------



## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

anthonylokrn said:


> Well the rims that are being discussed here are mainly the ones from nancy at light-bicycle. The ERD for light-bicycle is 603mm and the Crest 29er is 605mm. Good chance that it MIGHT work...
> 
> What spokes are you using?


Thanks for the reply. I'm using Sapim Superspokes.


----------



## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

FireSpitter said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'm using Sapim Superspokes.


Ah Ok. Yup, pricey.

Do you know what length spokes they built it with? If you don't, try to find out from the builder, and also check to see what spoke length is needed for 603mm by using a spoke calculator.

Your last choice is to have the spokes shortened.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

anthonylokrn said:


> Ah Ok. Yup, pricey.
> 
> Do you know what length spokes they built it with? If you don't, try to find out from the builder, and also check to see what spoke length is needed for 603mm by using a spoke calculator.
> 
> Your last choice is to have the spokes shortened.


Hey anthonylokrn, I use this: DT Swiss Spoke Calc

You'll just need to get your hub specs...


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

*Fwiw..*

I finally got my wheelset on my carbon 29er hardtail and went for my first ride. Gotta say that it really does alter the ride.

Adding these wheels just seems to "tighten up" the ride. Steering/tracking was better and like others have mentioned, the carbon hoops seems to waste less of your energy and transfers each pedal stroke to the dirt better.

The wider rim is great too and noticeably changes the tire performance. There seems to be less tire "roll" (side to side flop). It is extremely noticeable on pavement at high speeds in turns.

Happy so far..

.02


----------



## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

FireSpitter said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'm using Sapim Superspokes.


Seems you can't use the american classic nipples, as the spokes are 1.8 :madman:


----------



## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

bt said:


> your not supposed to drink the bong water, dude.


You guys better get to the washrooms and clean the sand out of your vaginas... It's a rough world out there. I find it interesting how sensitive this bunch of hardcore mountain bikers are.

Negative reps for posting unbiased information... Great...

This forum is great... As long as you don't post anything that someone doesn't want to read. Their feelings might get hurt. Oh noes.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

GTR-33 said:


> You guys better get to the washrooms and clean the sand out of your vaginas... It's a rough world out there. I find it interesting how sensitive this bunch of hardcore mountain bikers are.
> 
> Negative reps for posting unbiased information... Great...
> 
> This forum is great... As long as you don't post anything that someone doesn't want to read. Their feelings might get hurt. Oh noes.


... probably for suggesting to the guy to cheat on his warranty and saying stuff like,



GTR-33 said:


> I hate to say it but you ruined it all by yourself due to your own ignorance.


No, it wasn't me who negative repped you. I sign my reps, and anybody who doesn't is a wuss.

Sounds like you're the one who is butthurt.


----------



## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> ... probably for suggesting to the guy to cheat on his warranty and saying stuff like,
> 
> No, it wasn't me who negative repped you. I sign my reps, and anybody who doesn't is a wuss.
> 
> Sounds like you're the one who is butthurt.


Cheat the warranty? How so? If it had a tube it would have still probably let go, which at 70 psi sitting still is unacceptable for a brand new rim. I didn't say to cheat the warranty. That what you assumed I implied.

Ignorance isn't an insult. Its a lack of knowledge. If you feel offended by someone calling you ignorant, then you know it's something you should probably know. Embrace logic and swallow your pride. I posted facts, not opinions.


----------



## sonypete (Jun 15, 2008)

GTR-33 said:


> You guys better get to the washrooms and clean the sand out of your vaginas... It's a rough world out there. I find it interesting how sensitive this bunch of hardcore mountain bikers are.
> 
> Negative reps for posting unbiased information... Great...
> 
> This forum is great... As long as you don't post anything that someone doesn't want to read. Their feelings might get hurt. Oh noes.


Did you just say "unbiased information"... lol. You basically brow beat the guy after he had already taken accountability.

People didn't chime in because you posted something they didn't want to read. People chimed in because you showed them your inability to communicate in a social environment.


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

GTR-33 said:


> *The problem is the 70psi*... Tubeless for mountain bikes allows you to run less pressure. Tires are rated to 65psi with a tube in it, riding on a fire road.
> 
> Tubeless is completely different some tires even say on them what their tubeless pressure is.* 40psi MAX or it will blow off*. If it's not seated at 40psi it isn't going to seat. *I hate to say it but you ruined it all by yourself due to your own ignorance*.
> 
> ...





GTR-33 said:


> I'm not trying to beat you up about anything... *My point is that you can't put that much pressure in ANY tubeless tire on ANY rim. Not just carbon. *It worked before because there was a tube pressing the sidewall of the tire on the rim. You don't have that with tubeless.
> 
> There is tubeless for road bikes too and guess what. You can't put 120psi in it.





GTR-33 said:


> *Cheat the warranty? How so*? If it had a tube it would have still probably let go, which at 70 psi sitting still is unacceptable for a brand new rim. I didn't say to cheat the warranty. That what you assumed I implied.
> 
> Ignorance isn't an insult. Its a lack of knowledge. If you feel offended by someone calling you ignorant, then you know it's something you should probably know. Embrace logic and swallow your pride. I posted facts, not opinions.


I don't normally get into these tiffs, but you seem to be forgetting what you wrote.

So yes bottom line, you suggested being dishonest about the warranty and that is most likely where are the neg rep is coming from. Not that rep matters.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

I know this is the 29er thread but I need to get an ERD on the 26" wider rims...never built a set of wheels before


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> I know this is the 29er thread but I need to get an ERD on the 26" wider rims...never built a set of wheels before


I measured mine out to the same erd that's listed on their website, forget what it was, and on a mobile, ymmv
Also, there is a 26" thread in the wheels subforum


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

clewttu said:


> I measured mine out to the same erd that's listed on their website, forget what it was, and on a mobile, ymmv
> Also, there is a 26" thread in the wheels subforum


thanks I'll check that out too


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Joel RW said:


> I put a small fracture in the rim on my back wheel yesterday climbing uphill, I was carrying speed through a pinch climb, came across a water diverting bump that gave me a bit of air I landed on a bad angle and heard a crack. I had about 27 psi in the back tire, tubeless and I weigh around 170 / 76kg
> 
> I checked it out and felt a small bump where the fibers had separated, thought **** it and rode another 4 hours through rock gardens, off some 5ft drops to flat repeatedly.... the main intention was to break the rim, did not succeed.
> 
> The fracture is sort of a Y shape, it's only on the outside of the rim, the crack does not move inside the rim. I have taken photos of when it happened and after I cleaned it up a bit, I have no intention of sending it back but I will email "nancy" a picture and see what we can work out. I plan to continue riding as hard as I normally do and see how it holds up!


Same story with one of my rims. The small crack appeared during a race. I hit a rock harder than expected. I explained that to Nancy what happened and sends pictures. I asked about replacement crash price... Do the same! I will ride the cracked rim since the crack can't continue their way because of the "U" shape of it. Not an "Y" like you.

For your (hi folks!) information: these rims are pure weapons for XC racing. They offer incredible performance because they are very light, super stiff and wide. Even with lower spoke count or with thinner spokes, the wheel remains stiff. The interface of the hub and the stiffness of the rim will determinate much of the stiffness of the wheel than spokes count or diameter or tension. The only bad think about these rims are the fragile beads. Once you hit it in a medium to hard way, you cracked it. If you are heavier or ride hard stuff (mainly sharp rocks garden) or if your current rims are dented, this is not the right choice for you even with the heavier model at 430g. Before putting the trigger on, I've clearly understand that. I know where the rim's weakness are and it not affraid me. I bought 7 of their rims in different weight, hole count (24-28-32), 29er, 26er and bought one complete front wheel with novatec and bladed spokes (the wheel are a bit soft due to the small interface with my fork). For the price these wheels/wheelset are damn good!


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Well I drank the Kool-Aid and ordered a set of 29er wide rims as close to 400g as possible but not under. I will be taking a chance since I weigh 235lbs with gear. But I am planning on dropping the weight soon. The rims shipped today. 3k, Matte, 32h. Building with AC 32H hubs, CXray spokes, NN 2.25R, 2.35F, Stans Tape/Valve, & DT locking nipples. Putting them on a Lenz Mammoth. I guess we will see how they hold up under a heavier rider.


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## kingair (Jun 2, 2008)

I have a 2012 Niner Air 9 with Stan's Arch rims and King hubs. I'm thinking about picking up some light bicycle 29er rims but wondering if there would be any benifit over my current setup. Would there be a difference? My air 9 is an XL and I'm 220 lbs.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Nice!*



spunkmtb said:


> Well I drank the Kool-Aid and ordered a set of 29er wide rims as close to 400g as possible but not under. I will be taking a chance since I weigh 235lbs with gear. But I am planning on dropping the weight soon. The rims shipped today. 3k, Matte, 32h. Building with AC 32H hubs, CXray spokes, NN 2.25R, 2.35F, Stans Tape/Valve, & DT locking nipples. Putting them on a Lenz Mammoth. I guess we will see how they hold up under a heavier rider.


Let us know how it all works out for you.

So far, no significant problems for me. But, reading the story above, I think I'm going to try and take it a bit easier through the rock gardens. 

I'm 208 pounds nekkid and ride mostly XC kinda stuff, with some High Sierra stuff on special occasions (Downieville, Pinecrest Peak, Tahoe Rim, etc). I try an have a smooth riding style, but occasionally plow through rock gardens and baby heads like dropping a bag of hammers out the back of a moving truck.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

mat g said:


> .... I explained that to Nancy what happened and sends pictures. I asked about replacement crash price...


Although everyone's situation in the future may be different, can you please update here with her response? I am curious to see what they do in instances such as yours.

I wish I could justify building a set of wheels with these rims right now... :sad:


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

albertdc said:


> Although everyone's situation in the future may be different, can you please update here with her response? I am curious to see what they do in instances such as yours.
> 
> I wish I could justify building a set of wheels with these rims right now... :sad:


I think everyone's situation is different, maybe the crash replacement price is different for each customers... Depends on how much you spend at Light-Bicycle $$$, if you have a previous issue or how is your relationship with Nancy! 

They send me an reasonable offer, about 25% discount on one rim.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

I just bought a set of narrower rims off Jason from Carbonal, who's been cruising the forum. I got those for my CX bike, since I don't think I need the heavier 30mm rims from L-B. Not to mention, I'm not sure about running 32c tires on a 30mm rim... Anyway, I'll post up when I get them built, let you know if his stuff is any good. I'll be running them tubeless as well, using a Stans conversion.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

mat g said:


> Same story with one of my rims. The small crack appeared during a race. I hit a rock harder than expected. I explained that to Nancy what happened and sends pictures. I asked about replacement crash price... Do the same! I will ride the cracked rim since the crack can't continue their way because of the "U" shape of it. Not an "Y" like you.


"I hit a rock harder than expected" - could you explain this a bit further? Like, did you hit a rock square on on the edge, was it off of a drop or jump, what tyre pressure were you using, how much you weigh?

I've ordered a set of these under the assumption that they will be pretty tough for my type of XC riding, which is mostly smooth with a few small rock gardens, no big drops, plus I'm only 165lb and normally run about 30psi in my tyres to avoid slashes


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Timbo83 said:


> "I hit a rock harder than expected" - could you explain this a bit further? Like, did you hit a rock square on on the edge, was it off of a drop or jump, what tyre pressure were you using, how much you weigh?
> 
> I've ordered a set of these under the assumption that they will be pretty tough for my type of XC riding, which is mostly smooth with a few small rock gardens, no big drops, plus I'm only 165lb and normally run about 30psi in my tyres to avoid slashes


Your description is exactly the same as mine, except I run tires between 21 and 26psi. The tire was an Ikon EXO probably at 24-25 psi on the rear wheel. I hit something orange painted on the track... Not square rock but it was like a big 3" finger grew up from the earth. Hit it directly on the bead in atempt to unweight myself but in a part of the track you should pump it like in a pump track. Anyway, I win the race No air leaks, I ride it for the last month like that. I did the XC Canadian Championship with the crack...


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

mat g said:


> Your description is exactly the same as mine, except I run tires between 21 and 26psi. The tire was an Ikon EXO probably at 24-25 psi on the rear wheel. I hit something orange painted on the track... Not square rock but it was like a big 3" finger grew up from the earth. Hit it directly on the bead in atempt to unweight myself but in a part of the track you should pump it like in a pump track. Anyway, I win the race No air leaks, I ride it for the last month like that. I did the XC Canadian Championship with the crack...


Hmm, maybe I'll be okay then. I also use maxxis Ikons in 2.25, but I never go lower than 29-30psi

Never dented my alloy stans Olympics on my 26er before, plus the CF rims are going on a duallie so fingers crossed


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

I just got the front wheel built. This is the first wheel I have built and it came out better than I expected. I do not know tension yet but the spokes, Sapim Lasers, sound even and slightly higher in pitch than my existing front wheel, Arch/DT-Comp. I will check with a gauge soon. I have the Spec Purgatory 2Bliss easily aired up with1 round of 25mm yellow tape and some sealant. It went on without tools, and with a bit of soapy water it seated with my floor pump at 18-20 psi. So far so good. I am not a gentle rider and hit some rough descents frequently on my Tallboy, so we'll see how it holds up to my 180 ride-weight. I usually don't experience rim strikes with my current setup and I'll be using the same tires-Purgatory front, Rocket Ron rear. I am waiting on the rear hub to stock and will get the rear underway asap.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Timbo83 said:


> "I hit a rock harder than expected" - could you explain this a bit further? Like, did you hit a rock square on on the edge, was it off of a drop or jump, what tyre pressure were you using, how much you weigh?
> 
> I've ordered a set of these under the assumption that they will be pretty tough for my type of XC riding, which is mostly smooth with a few small rock gardens, no big drops, plus I'm only 165lb and normally run about 30psi in my tyres to avoid slashes


timbo, theses rims are great. you might be dwelling on them too much.

obviously if guys are running low enough pressure to allow a rock to smash into

the rim there will be damage, as with most any rim.

Buy them and you will like them, I'm sure of it.

Or don't, but either fish or cut bait friend.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

bt said:


> timbo, theses rims are great. you might be dwelling on them too much.
> 
> obviously if guys are running low enough pressure to allow a rock to smash into
> 
> ...


You're probably right. I've ordered the wheels from Nancy already anyway, with D881 15mm front hub and rotaz rear, plus ordered the bonti strips. I'm a pretty smooth rider, even on the rocks, so shouldn't be an issue.

Can't wait to get them on the bike!!


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

I bought several, bur ended up using a 15mm fork instead of 20mm, and also the red will clash with the orange on the frame I went with...so I have a front 20mm thru axle 29er UD matte wheel for sale. Red hub and nipples, black bladed spokes. Wider 23mm ID AM rim. New and never had a tire, but comes with tape and valve installed (they don't come with this). Ready to ride. I can ship or meet in the SF bay area. Great wheel, just don't have a use for it.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

argibson said:


> I bought several, bur ended up using a 15mm fork instead of 20mm, and also the red will clash with the orange on the frame I went with...so I have a front 20mm thru axle 29er UD matte wheel for sale. Red hub and nipples, black bladed spokes. Wider 23mm ID AM rim. New and never had a tire, but comes with tape and valve installed (they don't come with this). Ready to ride. I can ship or meet in the SF bay area. Great wheel, just don't have a use for it.


You should place a classified per forum rules


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

I did...just wanted to let those following this thread and interested in these wheels know. Thanks


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I just ordered a second set. This time I'll be relacing my Industry Nine wheels. Hope all goes well.


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## leoquezada (Jul 4, 2012)

good information


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

argibson said:


> I did...just wanted to let those following this thread and interested in these wheels know. Thanks


It would be easier to link to the add then have people need to search for it.


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

I didn't know how to do that using tapatalk. Here it is: http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showpro...ady-2c-20mm-thru-axle-32h-six-bolt-hub&cat=10


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

mattsavage said:


> I got those for my CX bike, since I don't think I need the heavier 30mm rims from L-B. Not to mention, I'm not sure about running 32c tires on a 30mm rim.


What is wrong with 32mm tire on a 30mm rim?


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Nothing. I'm running a set of 28's on one of my sets.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Are these Wide 29er rims suitable for aggressive XC or Trail riding?

I dented my Pacenti TL28 rims and now I'm considering going carbon for added stiffness and durability.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Are these Wide 29er rims suitable for aggressive XC or Trail riding?


uh, YES!


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

Yes, just as stiff and strong as any aluminum wheel. As with any rim, your tire beef, volume an pressure has to be appropriate for the type of riding you are doing. Riding rocky dh fast with low pressure on smallish (2.0) tires and poor line selection will trash them with rock strikes. I am putting them on my AM Tallboy LT, which replaces the WTB rims that come on the LT (also 23mm ID).


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Well my rims just arrived 394g & 392g 3k matte 32h


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

I'm curious if there is a carbon "Fat" rim 50 - 70 mm or wider out yet? I've been thinking about building a fat front for the 29er and with a carbon fat rim....

Might need to wait assuming one is ever done for a realistic cost.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

E-mail Nancy at light-bicyles. You never know what they'll make



crux said:


> I'm curious if there is a carbon "Fat" rim 50 - 70 mm or wider out yet? I've been thinking about building a fat front for the 29er and with a carbon fat rim....
> 
> Might need to wait assuming one is ever done for a realistic cost.


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## vw3vr6 (Sep 17, 2008)

I've been following this thread for awhile and I pulled the trigger few weeks ago. Ordered a set of 23mm AM 3k gloss finish rims from light-bicycle, arrived a week later (fast shipping), and both rims were in good condition. 384g and 386g. I had a local tech build up with Dt Swiss 240s and super comp spokes. Total weight around 1549 (without rim strip and stem). 

I'm only 145lb. geared up and ride mostly cross country and some chunky trails. I put them on my Tallboy and went to Big Bear this past weekend. The ride is awesome…we did mostly pine knot trail, few of the adjacent single tracks and the service roads; a lot of climbing. Man, these rims (with 240s) are so smooth – just point and shoot. I found myself climbing much faster, especially up more technique sections. So, after each run/ ride I would inspect the rims/ wheels to make sure all is well. Unfortunately, I found a spot that appeared to be damaged. I can't post pictures/ links yet…so I'll post it on my next one.

So it appears that a portion of the carbon weave is slightly protruding out…so it's rough not smooth.

I emailed Brian X. at light-bicycle last night to share what I found and asked if I should be concerned with the protruding weave and got a very quick response stating that he can help with a possible replacement rim. But he wants more photos and a photo of the the serial number…which I'll do later today.

I'll keep everyone posted.


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## vw3vr6 (Sep 17, 2008)

Here's a link of photos of the wheel build and "damaged" rim.

https://picasaweb.google.com/112470726667626516457/CarbonRims?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJz865jz7OiwVA&feat=directlink


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

vw3vr6 said:


> Here's a link of photos of the wheel build and "damaged" rim.
> 
> https://picasaweb.google.com/112470726667626516457/CarbonRims?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJz865jz7OiwVA&feat=directlink


I could be wrong but it looks a problem with the gloss coating.

Interested to hear what they say since I have a set of the 26 inch rims in UD on order.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

vw3vr6 said:


> Here's a link of photos of the wheel build and "damaged" rim.
> 
> https://picasaweb.google.com/112470726667626516457/CarbonRims?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJz865jz7OiwVA&feat=directlink


Is that your rear wheel? Is there a bulge or other damage to the carbon rim that doesn't show up in the picture?

From the picture it looks like you've maybe had a hard rock strike on the rim, scratching the gloss finish.


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## nmanchin (Oct 30, 2009)

WR304 said:


> Is that your rear wheel? Is there a bulge or other damage to the carbon rim that doesn't show up in the picture?
> 
> From the picture it looks like you've maybe had a hard rock strike on the rim, scratching the gloss finish.


that's also what it looks like to me.


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## vw3vr6 (Sep 17, 2008)

it's the front wheel. more i think about it...it's very likely that a rock hit it and damaged the gloss finish. no bulge...just the finish. i don't care if the gloss finish damaged...it's a mtn biking after all...i'm just concerned of further damage. first carbon wheels; so i don't know if this is normal.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

vw3vr6 said:


> it's the front wheel. more i think about it...it's very likely that a rock hit it and damaged the gloss finish. no bulge...just the finish. i don't care if the gloss finish damaged...it's a mtn biking after all...i'm just concerned of further damage. first carbon wheels; so i don't know if this is normal.


It's hard not to worry. Clear coat damage is normal and unavoidable. My carbon frame has numerous scrapes and gouges in the clear coat. You can seal the clear coat cracks with clear nail polish if you want, but its really not necessary.

You have a problem when you see exposed or frayed fibers, or long thin cracks. I have never seen carbon fracture in into many tiny cracks like in your picture.

Another thing to consider is that most carbon items have an outer cosmetic weave of carbon, so even if a crack appears it may just be isolated to the cosmetic layer. As a precaution always have cracks evaluated by a shop.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

vw3vr6 said:


> it's the front wheel. more i think about it...it's very likely that a rock hit it and damaged the gloss finish. no bulge...just the finish. i don't care if the gloss finish damaged...it's a mtn biking after all...i'm just concerned of further damage. first carbon wheels; so i don't know if this is normal.


Gloss finish is really easy to repair. Some 30 min epoxy, a BIC lighter, and some clear plastic packing tape. A very light coat on the scratch, indirectly heat the liquid resin w/ the lighter (ie, beside the new) so the mixing bubbles are gently heated and come up to the surface and pop. Then, cover the fresh resin w/ the packing tape...stretched tight w/o wrinkles. Let cure for 12 hours. The finish should be super glossy 
I've done this more than a few times...


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

DukeNeverwinter said:


> E-mail Nancy at light-bicyles. You never know what they'll make


Already got a reply. Nancy with light-bicycles is unfamiliar with the fat bike rims although seemed interested in listening. Perhaps if there is enough interest a fat bike carbon rim might be possible.

In the mean time perhaps the dented and damaged alloy rims I'm running will be swapped out for carbon at some stage.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

*Rim inner surface*

If I want to run those carbon rims with Stans sealant, is it better to have glossy inner side? Nancy told me that if the outer is UD matte, then inner is also matte.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Rainerhq said:


> If I want to run those carbon rims with Stans sealant, is it better to have glossy inner side? Nancy told me that if the outer is UD matte, then inner is also matte.


I have matte finish on my rims. With tape, the inner surface is not a problem. I used specialized blue tape on some rims and Gorilla tape on others. The seal is great but I prefer the Gorilla because it seems to stick better. Enve rims are using Gorilla tape to seals their rims.


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Just to lessen some confusion, ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation) has absolutely nothing to do with UST.

UST is a tubeless bicycle tire system developed by Mavic.
All the ETRTO does, is now recognise that standard- that's it. Just like DOT in the USA, and JATMA in Japan.

There in no such thing as an "ETRTO bead profile" :madman:


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

im pretty sure thats one of the 3-4 canned responses used by spammers to get their post count up (that exact post has been made at least once before in this thread)
the others have to do with on-ones supposed carbon rims from 2011


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Ahhh...got ya. As someone who works in the tire industry, I hate to see mis-information in an already confusing topic- UST, tubeless-ready, etc...:thumbsup:


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

mat g said:


> I have matte finish on my rims. With tape, the inner surface is not a problem. I used specialized blue tape on some rims and Gorilla tape on others. The seal is great but I prefer the Gorilla because it seems to stick better. Enve rims are using Gorilla tape to seals their rims.


Can you find Gorilla tape in the correct width or are they cutting it down to make it work?

I have had to cut Gorilla tape in the past and would love to find some that is already the appropriate width to avoid the sticky frayed pieces that resulted from the razor cut.

The local Lowes and HD only sell it in wide strips.

Thx


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

rydbyk said:


> Can you find Gorilla tape in the correct width or are they cutting it down to make it work?


Here, but I symply roll off the correct width from a 2" roll.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

mat g said:


> Here, but I symply roll off the correct width from a 2" roll.


Yeh, that should do it. Stan's is 25 mm and that looks to be 25.4 mm. I do know that if the tape is too wide, then it wants to stick to the sides during install and is a bit of a pain.

Thanks Matg


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

There is lot of talk about Light-Bicycle rims, but has anybody have experience with Helin 29er rims? These are also 30mm wide.
29er MTB carbon rim 20mm clincher - carbon speed cycle, carbon wheels,carbon wheelset,carbon bicycle wheels, bike rim


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Just ordered a paid of 3k matte rims - will keep you guys posted on it :thumbsup:


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Rainerhq said:


> There is lot of talk about Light-Bicycle rims, but has anybody have experience with Helin 29er rims? These are also 30mm wide.
> 29er MTB carbon rim 20mm clincher - carbon speed cycle, carbon wheels,carbon wheelset,carbon bicycle wheels, bike rim


looks like they are just resalers of the same rims, and putting a lot of markup on them


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Rainerhq said:


> There is lot of talk about Light-Bicycle rims, but has anybody have experience with Helin 29er rims? These are also 30mm wide.
> 29er MTB carbon rim 20mm clincher - carbon speed cycle, carbon wheels,carbon wheelset,carbon bicycle wheels, bike rim


the rims appear to be more than double the price, so no, not much discussion around here on those yet..


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

THat website sells them by the pair, so same price as light-bicycle


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

well, if its for a pair its still $50 more a set without shipping...and im guessing that both shipping costs and the rims are the same


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

DukeNeverwinter said:


> THat website sells them by the pair, so same price as light-bicycle


Yep, thx. Looks like they may just be the same rims at the Nancy Wides, but with a small mark up perhaps..


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

Rainerhq said:


> There is lot of talk about Light-Bicycle rims, but has anybody have experience with Helin 29er rims? These are also 30mm wide.
> 29er MTB carbon rim 20mm clincher - carbon speed cycle, carbon wheels,carbon wheelset,carbon bicycle wheels, bike rim


From elsewhere on the site...



> Description:
> 1. Alloy rim with carbon fiber finish
> 
> 2. 42mm profile clincher,
> ...


300kg? I think that's enough margin. :thumbsup: :skep:


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

What spokes are you guys using for your builds?

Thoughts on DT Swiss Revolutions?


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

broadwayline said:


> What spokes are you guys using for your builds?
> 
> Thoughts on DT Swiss Revolutions?


Built mine up with Revos. Good so far... About 150 lbs rider weight fwiw..


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

clewttu said:


> looks like they are just resalers of the same rims, and putting a lot of markup on them


They aren't tubeless ready like light-bicycles...


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> They aren't tubeless ready like light-bicycles...


what about LB's are tubeless ready that those arent (besides listing the words in the title)


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

deoreo said:


> Just to lessen some confusion, ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation) has absolutely nothing to do with UST.
> 
> UST is a tubeless bicycle tire system developed by Mavic.
> All the ETRTO does, is now recognise that standard- that's it. Just like DOT in the USA, and JATMA in Japan.
> ...


Wrong. UST is Mavic's trademarked version of the ETRTO standard. Mack developed it, but no longer has control of the specs or it's use, which is how Bontrager can produce UST-spec wheel/tire systems without paying Mavic for a UST license.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

clewttu said:


> what about LB's are tubeless ready that those arent (besides listing the words in the title)


What I was going to say... especially after seeing the lack of UST profile in my rims.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

*Helin and LB cross section*



mattsavage said:


> They aren't tubeless ready like light-bicycles...


What´s the difference between these?


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Rainerhq said:


> What´s the difference between these?


One pic has Chinese writing at the top of it and the other one does not. Also, one has a 25.67 bead to bead measurement and the other lists a 25.72. Did I pass?

Those are clearly the same image, although someone went and took the liberty and changed that one spec. Funny stuff.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

I asked about the difference because *mattsavage* said that one is TL ready and other isn´t.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

rydbyk said:


> Built mine up with Revos. Good so far... About 150 lbs rider weight fwiw..


Still good for 195lbs or should I move to CX Rays?


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

I ride dt-revos and i'm 220. 

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> Those are clearly the same image, although someone went and took the liberty and changed that one spec. Funny stuff.


Actually they aren't. Look closely at the beadseat. The first profile has a small inversion before the center channel.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Rainerhq said:


> What´s the difference between these?


One of them is wrong. The second number from the top is different but no other numbers are, which is impossible.


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## jhat (Sep 27, 2010)

I thought I would post up my specs which might help if someone is looking on doing the same thing

Light Bicycle wide 29 carbon rim, 32 hole

Chris King hubs, quick release front hub, 142mm thru axel rear

DT Super Comp spokes 292mm front and rear, Stock dt aluminium nipples, threads greased, no thread locker

Drive side rear and disk side front at about 90 kg tension. Light bicycle said the rims were rated for 120 kg. Tension very uniform from spoke to spoke on each side. 

Wheels set up tubeless, one layer of yellow Stans tape, one scoop of sealant, Specialized tires. Tires immediately sealed using a compressor, no issues seating the bead at all.

The wheels built up very very easily. No adjustments or re-truing after leaving the truing stand. Bike ridden hard but not raced yet (that comes this weekend).

I have these wheels on a Specialized Epic Comp.The new really changed the personality of the bike. The bike rides lighter (The wheels are quite a bit lighter over stock but I did not put the wheels on a scale) and more precise riding than with the stock wheel set. I am very pleased with the results.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Sure, why not?*



meltingfeather said:


> One of them is wrong. The second number from the top is different but no other numbers are, which is impossible.


That just means the little ears have slightly more or less overhang.

*edit*

No, wait... you're right. 1.4mm overhang with 2.1mm sidewall thickness.


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## manamana (Jul 30, 2006)

I've got a set of these wheels on the way, and I have a quick question re setting them up tubeless. 

If I use yellow rim tape, and get the tires to seal, does this mean they are fine to ride and won't roll off the rim/burp? Or just beacuse they seal, it doesn't necessarily mean they won't potentially cause issues and it would be better to get a Bontry rim strip for more security?

I will be running Maxxis Ignitors and Ikons, which seem to have been run with yellow tape fine so far by others. I'm just a bit paranoid about rolling a tire off the rim.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

manamana said:


> I've got a set of these wheels on the way, and I have a quick question re setting them up tubeless.
> 
> If I use yellow rim tape, and get the tires to seal, does this mean they are fine to ride and won't roll off the rim/burp? Or just beacuse they seal, it doesn't necessarily mean they won't potentially cause issues and it would be better to get a Bontry rim strip for more security?
> 
> I will be running Maxxis Ignitors and Ikons, which seem to have been run with yellow tape fine so far by others. I'm just a bit paranoid about rolling a tire off the rim.


If you are paranoid as you say, then that is no fun while riding. Get the Bonty rim strip so you can enjoy riding and not be paranoid.

Having said that, there are many members having luck just using the yellow tape. Not sure about your tire selection with regards to seating properly or not...


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## FreuderLocks (May 20, 2010)

will i-9 straight pull spokes fit in these wheels? would anybody advise using these spokes and and I-9 hub in a build?
-FreuderLocks


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

FreuderLocks said:


> will i-9 straight pull spokes fit in these wheels? would anybody advise using these spokes and and I-9 hub in a build?
> -FreuderLocks


Search, I'm not going to do the work for you, but I'm pretty sure I read someone had these rims sent to I9 and had them built with the straight pulls.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

There is a reply earlier about the I9's. Report was the standard spoke worked. I have a second pair of wide 29er rims on the way that I am planning on swapping on to my I9 wheelset. Stay tuned. Haven't decided whether I'll tackle it myself or send it all to I9.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

hogprint said:


> There is a reply earlier about the I9's. Report was the standard spoke worked. I have a second pair of wide 29er rims on the way that I am planning on swapping on to my I9 wheelset. Stay tuned. Haven't decided whether I'll tackle it myself or send it all to I9.


I have a pair of 26" light bicycle carbon rims on my I9 straight pull wheelset.


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## vw3vr6 (Sep 17, 2008)

light-bicycle responded:
"I have got message from our manager today, the technical engineers had seen the pictures and video carefully, we are not sure how the surface formed, but checked that it is not the quality issue, the shortcoming would not affect the rim strength. But, if you still worry about it, and would like to pay the shipping cost of sending the problem rim to us, we'd love to change a new rim for you and pay the shipping cost of sending the new rim to you. What's your idea, please?"

now i have to decide if it's worth the cost of shipping, hassle of removing the rim, wait time, putting the wheel back together, possible cost to true (i don't have a truing stand), and the fact it could happen again. i may just keep it and deal with it. i did apply a small amount of clear nail polish; so hopefully that will prevent the clear coat from getting worse. i think i'll sleep on it and decide.


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

^^^I read that as they'll pay for shipping both ways. Still a hassle for you, but might help your decision.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

I read it as he has to pay to send it to LB, and LB pays to return to him
it looks pretty cosmetic to me as others have stated, i wouldnt go through all the hassle


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

clewttu said:


> I read it as he has to pay to send it to LB, and LB pays to return to him
> it looks pretty cosmetic to me as others have stated, i wouldnt go through all the hassle


Agreed - he would pay shipping there since it likely is not structural, and they pay the shipping back for a new rim. Sounds fair....though may not be worth the hassle and downtime.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## jhat (Sep 27, 2010)

I run around 20 psi on my set and do not seem to have any burping issues.


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

argibson said:


> I bought several, bur ended up using a 15mm fork instead of 20mm, and also the red will clash with the orange on the frame I went with...so I have a front 20mm thru axle 29er UD matte wheel for sale. Red hub and nipples, black bladed spokes. Wider 23mm ID AM rim. New and never had a tire, but comes with tape and valve installed (they don't come with this). Ready to ride. I can ship or meet in the SF bay area. Great wheel, just don't have a use for it.


Correction....the parts to make this wheel 15mm are available from the novatec us distributor in CA for $30. Still for sale as the red hub and nipples don't I with my orange and black frame. Deets in classifieds. Thanks


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

I finally got my LB wheels built. I had an issue with customs here in Austria and had to pay import duty fees. LB tries to evade this with their crafty wording on the shipping documents, but mine got caught. The process delayed my rims for about 3 weeks. My build:
- 23mm inner width rims, UD matte, 385g / 383g. 
- DT Revolution spokes
- DT aluminum nipples
- Am Classic hubs
-- total weight = ~1420g (from shop hanging scale). With valves, no tape. 

I laced them then had a local shop finish the build. I'm a bit worried about their workmanship regarding stress-relieving and spoke windup, but I 100% trust they will remedy any future out of true issues. 

After taping, I could not get either a new Rocket Ron or Maxxis Ikon to seat tubeless - with floor pump. Not even close - it's like the rim is too wide! So they are with tube now. I'll try tubeless later and borrow a friends compressor. 

Next is to start riding them!


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Motivated said:


> I finally got my LB wheels built. I had an issue with customs here in Austria and had to pay import duty fees. LB tries to evade this with their crafty wording on the shipping documents, but mine got caught. The process delayed my rims for about 3 weeks. My build:
> - 23mm inner width rims, UD matte, 385g / 383g.
> - DT Revolution spokes
> - DT aluminum nipples
> ...


Nice weight !
Adding the Bontrager rhythm strips will allow you to floor-pump.......Big thanks to Bruce B. for the info.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Motivated said:


> I finally got my LB wheels built. I had an issue with customs here in Austria and had to pay import duty fees. LB tries to evade this with their crafty wording on the shipping documents, but mine got caught. The process delayed my rims for about 3 weeks. My build:
> - 23mm inner width rims, UD matte, 385g / 383g.
> - DT Revolution spokes
> - DT aluminum nipples
> ...


Same build as mine:thumbsup: Mine came out at 1483g with Stans yellow tape and valves fwiw.. Did you go with <32 hole?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Surfdog93 said:


> Adding the Bontrager Rhythm strips will allow you to use the floor-pump


:thumbsup:


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Surfdog93 said:


> Nice weight !
> Adding the Bontrager rhythm strips will all you floor-pump


Agreed. If I can't get tires to mount with all the standard tricks then I'll be getting rhythm strips.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Motivated said:


> Agreed. If I can't get tires to mount with all the standard tricks then I'll be getting rhythm strips.


Even when using the compressor (without the strips), make sure to soap up the beads really well to help build an "air/water seal" to get the tires to take to the rim and remove the valve core to get a nice blast of air. It still may not be easy, but with some patience things should air up.

The strips - which really don't weigh much at all - make it so easy and IMO - safe.

BB


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Anyone know where I can get the axle conversion kit for the Novatec D882 hub in the US? 
I want to try my wheels on another bike and need to go from 142x12 to 135x10 QR


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Got my second pair of LB wide rims this morning. I got normal layup, UD 32H matte. There was no weight marked on them. These look nicer than the rims I got in May. The bead seems to be more consistent. I got my Sapim laser spokes and nips, just need my new Hadleys. Thinking the weight will be in 1600 range. Not too bad for me. Looking for something stiffer than my EA90s. Will be starting second ever wheel build soon.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

BruceBrown said:


> Even when using the compressor (without the strips), make sure to soap up the beads really well to help build an "air/water seal" to get the tires to take to the rim and remove the valve core to get a nice blast of air. It still may not be easy, but with some patience things should air up.
> 
> The strips - which really don't weigh much at all - make it so easy and IMO - safe.
> 
> BB


The bontrager rim strips are 40g each. That is pretty significant. That cancels out half the weight savings of the carbon rim right there.

Then add 60g of sealant and a 6g valve stem, and you're 10g heavier than a Lunar Lite tube.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> The bontrager rim strips are 40g each. That is pretty significant. That cancels out half the weight savings of the carbon rim right there.
> 
> Then add 60g of sealant and a 6g valve stem, and you're 10g heavier than a Lunar Lite tube.


The old tube-vs-tubeless-setup chestnut .
I race XC, so I should be crying about an extra 10g at the rim. But after you get your first puncture in a race that 10g extra all becomes worth it I think


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Timbo83 said:


> The old tube-vs-tubeless-setup chestnut .
> I race XC, so I should be crying about an extra 10g at the rim. But after you get your first puncture in a race that 10g extra all becomes worth it I think


You have to carry a tube either way whether you are racing tubeless or with a tube. If you are puncturing your tire, then most likely you are puncturing your tube as well during said race.

Also, why risk getting a flat from thorn etc during a race? Are you running sealant in your tube by chance?


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

rydbyk said:


> You have to carry a tube either way whether you are racing tubeless or with a tube. If you are puncturing your tire, then most likely you are puncturing your tube as well during said race.
> 
> Also, why risk getting a flat from thorn etc during a race? Are you running sealant in your tube by chance?


You don't need to convince me buddy, I was trying to say the 10g in weight gain when these rims are setup tubeless is totally worth it!!
I've run tubeless for 6 years now, I'd never go back.... Even going to convert my roadie to tubeless now!!


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

My order is on the way! 26er this time for my girlfriend on Circus monkey hubs, 24 pillar 1420 bladed spokes. Should be a sub 1300g wheelset with 54 POE!

Recently, I converted all my rear wheel to my new 142mm x 12mm bike. Have fun!


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Adim_X said:


> Got my second pair of LB wide rims this morning. I got normal layup, UD 32H matte. There was no weight marked on them. These look nicer than the rims I got in May. The bead seems to be more consistent. I got my Sapim laser spokes and nips, just need my new Hadleys. Thinking the weight will be in 1600 range. Not too bad for me. Looking for something stiffer than my EA90s. Will be starting second ever wheel build soon.


I was thinking about the Easton Carbons, but I'm thinking your way is the way to go! I like the Eastons, but the hubs just have a bad reputation. This way, you have the best of both worlds. Keep us informed.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> The bontrager rim strips are 40g each. That is pretty significant. That cancels out half the weight savings of the carbon rim right there.
> 
> Then add 60g of sealant and a 6g valve stem, and you're 10g heavier than a Lunar Lite tube.


There are more benefits of a carbon rim than weight.:thumbsup: And I run tubeless - not for any weight savings - but for all the other benefits living in thorn country.

Bontrager lists the strip weight at 35g per strip (for all sizes), plus 8g per valve. I weighed my strips one at a time on the digital table scale and got a reading of 0g. They didn't even register! The valve did, but not the strip itself. So - at least for the plastic pair I have - I take it with a grain of salt what the actual weight is per strip. Next time I swap tires, I'll pull the strips and put them on the scale again to take a picture of the reading. Then I'll weigh the wheels on the Alpine Scale with and without the strips/valves to show the minimal difference.

Bontrager claimed weight: 35g (strip) + 8g (valve) = 43g
NoTubes claimed weight: 6.5g (valve) + 8.5g (Stans wide yellow tape for a 29"er run) = 15g

That being said - I really can't tell any difference when I am on the bike between a strip and valve combination that weighs a claimed 43g and one that weighs a claimed 15g. If 28g per wheel was enough to alter my on the bike performance - then I've got some serious other issues to deal with.....

We typically find as much, if not more of a weight variance in the same model of tire than 28g per tire.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

jhat said:


> I thought I would post up my specs which might help if someone is looking on doing the same thing
> 
> Light Bicycle wide 29 carbon rim, 32 hole
> 
> ...


Did you weigh the set?


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## Brisco Dog (Nov 5, 2009)

mat g said:


> My order is on the way! 26er this time for my girlfriend on Circus monkey hubs, 24 pillar 1420 bladed spokes. Should be a sub 1300g wheelset with 54 POE!
> 
> Recently, I converted all my rear wheel to my new 142mm x 12mm bike. Have fun!


Which Circus Monkey hubs have 54 POE?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Impressive! But isn't the only point of 142 spacing to save time and hassle when putting on a through axle wheel? It'll only take you 357 years of typical bike maintenance to break even on the time spent machining those beautiful custom components.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

People still do upper level XC racing with tubes?! :skep:

Nice build on the 26er set!


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## Cormac (Aug 6, 2011)

Anybody have these wheels on their daily ride? Or you guys just using em for racing?


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

mat g said:


> My order is on the way! 26er this time for my girlfriend on Circus monkey hubs, 24 pillar 1420 bladed spokes. Should be a sub 1300g wheelset with 54 POE!
> 
> Recently, I converted all my rear wheel to my new 142mm x 12mm bike. Have fun!


Sweet lathe set up. Would love to see more fabricated bike components.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

*Special nipple*

Isy there a nipple that is specially designed for carbon rim use? I'm asking because the standard small flange nip might induce higher contact stress. Just asking what the best choice would be?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Impressive! But isn't the only point of 142 spacing to save time and hassle when putting on a through axle wheel? It'll only take you 357 years of typical bike maintenance to break even on the time spent machining those beautiful custom components.


142 isn't really "spacing" per se... It's the added axle length (and corresponding dropout inset) to make the convenient fitment you describe. The dropout faces are still 135mm apart.
He could have come from quick release... in which case the "point" might be through axle stiffness.
One additional "point" is having wheelsets that fit in your frame.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Simplemind said:


> Isy there a nipple that is specially designed for carbon rim use? I'm asking because the standard small flange nip might induce higher contact stress. Just asking what the best choice would be?


Standard nipples work fine.


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## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

broadwayline said:


> People still do upper level XC racing with tubes?! :skep:
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Yep, world cup XC.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Cormac said:


> Anybody have these wheels on their daily ride? Or you guys just using em for racing?


Daily riding and racing, I like them so much more than my American Classic wheelset that I figured I'll replace the rim if I happen to damage it. I have a second wheelset just in case.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> 142 isn't really "spacing" per se... It's the added axle length (and corresponding dropout inset) to make the convenient fitment you describe. The dropout faces are still 135mm apart.
> He could have come from quick release... in which case the "point" might be through axle stiffness.
> One additional "point" is having wheelsets that fit in your frame.


No, the dropout faces are at 142mm so I did complete overhault of my hubs. Everything had to be changed from the bearings with bigger center hole to the inner sleeves, spacers, axle and end caps. On the powertap, I was force to make a bigger clearance into the cassette body because the new bigger axle didn't pass throught... The dimension between gears and rotor was not the same as on a 135mm hub so I needed to make a special 2.5mm thick spacer on the laser cutting machine to shim the rotor. On the powertap, you can notice there's no tabs to hold a rotor... This is an old road model. I did an nice part to hold a homemade rotor.:thumbsup:


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

dfiler said:


> ... It'll only take you 357 years of typical bike maintenance to break even....


I probably spend more time to fine tuned my bikes than I ride it but I'm passionate about bikes fabrication and parts making. It relaxing me so much!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mat g said:


> No, the dropout faces are at 142mm so I did complete overhault of my hubs. Everything had to be changed from the bearings with bigger center hole to the inner sleeves, spacers, axle and end caps. On the powertap, I was force to make a bigger clearance into the cassette body because the new bigger axle didn't pass throught... The dimension between gears and rotor was not the same as on a 135mm hub so I needed to make a special 2.5mm thick spacer on the laser cutting machine to shim the rotor. On the powertap, you can notice there's no tabs to hold a rotor... This is an old road model. I did an nice part to hold a homemade rotor.:thumbsup:


Really nice work.
What I meant was, the difference between the 135mm OLD and 142mm is the extra 3.5 mm on each side that allows the convenient fitment dfiler described... basically that you have a positive slot to slide your wheel into instead of it floating around while you try to stab the axle through. The "face" of the dropout (outside the slot) is still spaced at 135mm.









Your hubs may be a different story because you converted a road hub or whatever. The fact that you can convert many hubs from 9mm q/r to 142mm TA tells you the relative spacing between cassette and rotor is the same or at least within the adjustment range of caliper and derailleur.
:thumbsup:


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

mat g said:


> My order is on the way! 26er this time for my girlfriend on Circus monkey hubs, 24 pillar 1420 bladed spokes. Should be a sub 1300g wheelset with 54 POE!





Brisco Dog said:


> Which Circus Monkey hubs have 54 POE?


http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/circus-monkey-hubs-677008.html
My experience with the latest Circus Monkey hubs is in the linked post and it wasn't positive. I gambled and the over quoted saying "buy cheap, buy twice" applies here. Replaced it with a DT 350.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

ktm520 said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/circus-monkey-hubs-677008.html
> My experience with the latest Circus Monkey hubs is in the linked post and it wasn't positive. I gambled and the over quoted saying "buy cheap, buy twice" applies here. Replaced it with a DT 350.


I've read this thread carefully before buying these fragile hubs. My main concern was the weight and the price. For a 26" wheelset with a 34t cassette, there's also less torque than on a 29er wheel with a 36t. Anyway, my girlfriend is not able to damage this engagement... She don't put as much power needed to damage it in few years. This wheelset will last forever on his bike. The issue about the quality of the seal is not afraid me, I like spending time changing some bearings!


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Cormac said:


> Anybody have these wheels on their daily ride? Or you guys just using em for racing?


Everyday here with zero issues!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

For ppl who are rolling these rims, I need some realistic assessments on just how tough these things are. I just ordered a pair of Nancy's wider and tougher 29er, 32h for a Tallboy LT build. I'm not expecting these to be DH rims, but just how much punishment have some of you guys/gals been dishing out on these...you weights, drops you're hitting, etc... 
FYI, I'm coming from a DH background, and even tho I try to stay soft on wheels, nature of the beast is you'd prefer to go over rather than around when possible. I also won't be running these at stupid low XC type of PSIs...won't be below my DH pressures...32/34, frt/rr respectively. Thanks.

Edit: also looking at UST-ing a set of Conti Trail King 2.4 folders for this wheel...will be laced w/ DT Revos, alloy nips except for the drive side rear which will get brass.


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

Hard to tell, but it seems the beads are the weakest area. The structure of the hoop seems very solid to me, so with enough pressure they should be pretty tough


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Where are you guys getting your Sapim CX-Rays for these? Online I've been able to find the straight pull CX-Rays in the lenghts I need in Silver for ~$1 per spoke but I'd prefer black and that seems to make the price jump to ~$3-4 per spoke!


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> Your hubs may be a different story because you converted a road hub or whatever. The fact that you can convert many hubs from 9mm q/r to 142mm TA tells you the relative spacing between cassette and rotor is the same or at least within the adjustment range of caliper and derailleur.
> :thumbsup:


I did a small search tonight, I have a specialized epic witch have a 142+ dropout. That is why I needed a spacer for my rotor on DT240s and on the dirty flea hubs.... The cassette on 142+ is 2 mm closer to dropout drive side. See:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Anyone have any dimensional specs for Hadley's 142mm hub?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mat g said:


> I did a small search tonight, I have a specialized epic witch have a 142+ dropout. That is why I needed a spacer for my rotor on DT240s and on the dirty flea hubs.... The cassette on 142+ is 2 mm closer to dropout drive side. See:


Ah... yes, the proprietary 142+ hub is different. :thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> Anyone have any dimensional specs for Hadley's 142mm hub?


Same as the 135


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Same as the 135


Hey thanks! Way easy! 

Meltingfeather, another dumb question...
So is the dish just 3.5mm on either side additional? The wheel isn't dished any differently? Seems there an opportunity to redish the wheel so there's more angle on the drive side spokes, yeah?


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

meltingfeather said:


> Standard nipples work fine.


Thanks, I re-read earlier posts about the washers also, and the concensus was...not needed.

As a neophyte, could I get some advice/recommendations as to spoke configuration, type, ERD (wide 29er) so I can get the order in shape? These will see AM, rocky use, and I don't know whether 2X or 3X is preferred, given that my purpose in going to C-rims in the first place is stiffness. Also, i will be using Hope Pro2 EVO's-32hole.
Finally, what tubeless stem are you liking?


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

litany said:


> Where are you guys getting your Sapim CX-Rays for these? Online I've been able to find the straight pull CX-Rays in the lenghts I need in Silver for ~$1 per spoke but I'd prefer black and that seems to make the price jump to ~$3-4 per spoke!


Who has silver for $1 ?!


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Simplemind said:


> .......As a neophyte, could I get some advice/recommendations as to spoke configuration, type, ERD (wide 29er) so I can get the order in shape? These will see AM, rocky use, and I don't know whether 2X or 3X is preferred, given that my purpose in going to C-rims in the first place is stiffness. Also, i will be using Hope Pro2 EVO's-32hole.
> Finally, what tubeless stem are you liking?


My builder used 292 D T Swiss Comps on the Pro 2 front with no problems. Gonna use the 292s on the rear too. 602/603 ERD. 3 X pattern. I think the EVO will be the same...? Gonna use WTB stems because thats what I have..... and Bonty rhythm rimstrips. Hope that helps!
.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> Hey thanks! Way easy!
> 
> Meltingfeather, another dumb question...
> So is the dish just 3.5mm on either side additional? The wheel isn't dished any differently? Seems there an opportunity to redish the wheel so there's more angle on the drive side spokes, yeah?


I think I answered this in your other thread, but all the wheelbuilding dimensions are identical because they are from center. It is the same hub shell.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Simplemind said:


> Thanks, I re-read earlier posts about the washers also, and the concensus was...not needed.


I agree (and probably offered a "not needed" opinion) 


Simplemind said:


> As a neophyte, could I get some advice/recommendations as to spoke configuration, type, ERD (wide 29er) so I can get the order in shape? These will see AM, rocky use, and I don't know whether 2X or 3X is preferred, given that my purpose in going to C-rims in the first place is stiffness. Also, i will be using Hope Pro2 EVO's-32hole.


3x is standard rec. 2x works fine. It is slightly lighter and slightly stiffer, neither of which you could detect (IMO).


Simplemind said:


> Finally, what tubeless stem are you liking?


I cut mine out of tubes. Anything else is a waste of money, IMO. :thumbsup:


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

meltingfeather said:


> I cut mine out of tubes. Anything else is a waste of money, IMO. :thumbsup:


Wow, that's the first time I've heard of doing that.  I'm used to the Mavic nutted valve stem, and tried the Stans stem, but I got a bit 'o leakage from it, so went back to Mavic's. Could you splain how that works?


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Has anyone done a rim swap on a set of wheels built with Flows? ERD on the flows is 600 versus the light bikes 603. I did a rum swap on a wheelset that had Arch's and it went allright. Spokes were almost too long in some cases.


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## minh (May 23, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> I cut mine out of tubes. Anything else is a waste of money, IMO. :thumbsup:


this. I too cut mine out of old tubes. the only time I have used a "special valve" was when one came with a mavic 817 rim. I did one time buy a batch of 20" Q-tubes brand (I think) tubes that were on sale (a few dollars each) for the removable cores. so I guess that would count as buying some valves to use especially for tubeless.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Simplemind said:


> Wow, that's the first time I've heard of doing that.  I'm used to the Mavic nutted valve stem, and tried the Stans stem, but I got a bit 'o leakage from it, so went back to Mavic's. Could you splain how that works?


Mavic stems are made to fit Mavic rims and are pretty high-durometer rubber, so they don't work very well in other rims, IME.
When you cut a valve out of a tube you end up with a Stan's valve. In fact, I'm convinced that Stan has sourced his "tubeless valves" from a valve supplier or tube company who then puts the identical product into tubes. If that's not your cup of tea, you may not like them, but I have never had an issue or seen a product that works better. I like to set myself up for success (a tip I learned from a motivational speaker... kidding :arf: ) when it comes to tubeless. When I install a tubeless valve, I always put moldbuilder latex around the base to seal it. Since starting that practice I have *never* had a valve leak... not once. I also usually lay a bead of moldbuilder along the bead of the tire when installing. Since going to Bontrager TLR strips and (mostly) tubeless ready tires, I haven't done that as much, though.


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

aosty said:


> Who has silver for $1 ?!


Well they aren't sold $1 individually, it's a box of 64 for $60 so it's actually a bit less than $1 per spoke. I can't seem to find anyone who sells boxes of black ones.

Sapim CX-Ray Straight Pull 272mm
Sapim CX-Ray Straight Pull 254mm

Those are the two spokes I need for the wider 26er rim with the extralite hyperfront. I need a total of 28 of each but I'd rather have a ton of extra spokes laying around than pay 2x more money for half as many spokes.


----------



## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Mavic stems are made to fit Mavic rims and are pretty high-durometer rubber, so they don't work very well in other rims, IME.
> When you cut a valve out of a tube you end up with a Stan's valve. In fact, I'm convinced that Stan has sourced his "tubeless valves" from a valve supplier or tube company who then puts the identical product into tubes. If that's not your cup of tea, you may not like them, but I have never had an issue or seen a product that works better. I like to set myself up for success (a tip I learned from a motivational speaker... kidding :arf: ) when it comes to tubeless. When I install a tubeless valve, I always put moldbuilder latex around the base to seal it. Since starting that practice I have *never* had a valve leak... not once. I also usually lay a bead of moldbuilder along the bead of the tire when installing. Since going to Bontrager TLR strips and (mostly) tubeless ready tires, I haven't done that as much, though.


Learn something new every day! So - dumb question - do all tubes have removable cores or are there certain brands that you look for.... or do you not have the removable core "feature"?


----------



## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

litany said:


> Well they aren't sold $1 individually, it's a box of 64 for $60 so it's actually a bit less than $1 per spoke. I can't seem to find anyone who sells boxes of black ones.
> 
> Sapim CX-Ray Straight Pull 272mm
> Sapim CX-Ray Straight Pull 254mm
> ...


I think you'd better double check with them. Under additional information the Unit of measure says B/20 so looks to me like that means a bag of 20 spokes for $60.04($3 per spoke) That's about the going rate at other places online.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

albertdc said:


> Learn something new every day! So - dumb question - do all tubes have removable cores or are there certain brands that you look for.... or do you not have the removable core "feature"?


I always get removeable cores.
I get Q-Tubes cuz they are cheap and it says "removeable valve core" on the box (small text on the bottom right).


----------



## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> I always get removeable cores.
> I get Q-Tubes cuz they are cheap and it says "removeable valve core" on the box (small text on the bottom right).


Cool! :thumbsup:
Thanks for the info


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

[/QUOTE=litany;9508710]Originally Posted by litany View Post
Well they aren't sold $1 individually, it's a box of 64 for $60 so it's actually a bit less than $1 per spoke. I can't seem to find anyone who sells boxes of black ones.

Sapim CX-Ray Straight Pull 272mm
Sapim CX-Ray Straight Pull 254mm

Those are the two spokes I need for the wider 26er rim with the extralite hyperfront. I need a total of 28 of each but I'd rather have a ton of extra spokes laying around than pay 2x more money for half as many spokes.[/QUOTE]



pwu_1 said:


> I think you'd better double check with them. Under additional information the Unit of measure says B/20 so looks to me like that means a bag of 20 spokes for $60.04($3 per spoke) That's about the going rate at other places online.


That's right. For a bag of 20. I didn't think Sapim sold spokes other than bags of 20.

Litany, you saw the weight spec for 64 pcs


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

Simplemind said:


> Thanks, I re-read earlier posts about the washers also, and the concensus was...not needed.
> 
> As a neophyte, could I get some advice/recommendations as to spoke configuration, type, ERD (wide 29er) so I can get the order in shape? These will see AM, rocky use, and I don't know whether 2X or 3X is preferred, given that my purpose in going to C-rims in the first place is stiffness. Also, i will be using Hope Pro2 EVO's-32hole.
> Finally, what tubeless stem are you liking?


Rocky ness is a relative term... as is All Mountain. Let us know how they hold up, or if you crack them on the rocks.

How clean are the lines you ride, and how much do you weigh and is this on a hardtail, FS, or rigid?


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

RandyBoy said:


> Rocky ness is a relative term... as is All Mountain. Let us know how they hold up, or if you crack them on the rocks.
> 
> How clean are the lines you ride, and how much do you weigh and is this on a hardtail, FS, or rigid?


"Clean lines" whuz dat?  
Austin as in BCGB, so it's pretty danged technical, and yes I walk...alot! That said, I think Moab/Sedona is rocky as well, just smoother, and maybe cleaner lines.
Weight 180# loaded up, and on a FS 4"-5" bike.
I'm guessing that this will be a challenge for C-rims, but my current 3 y/o rims have no issues, and just recently broke my first spoke...ever. But I'm pretty conservative.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Data point:

Bonty strips - 43.4g each
Yellow tape - 6.1g each

Valve not included.
I opted for the strips... the set-up just seems bombproof and the fit is perfect on the Nancy wides.
I was a fan of the security of split-tube-less before moving to Stan's rims w/yellow tape. The TLR strips seem like a next level version of that same security.
For the record, I never had issues with my Stan's set-ups. I burped once or twice when I was trying to limp in from a race on stupid-low pressure (tire leaking down).
Not even that after starting the latex-glued bead thing I do.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

hogprint said:


> Has anyone done a rim swap on a set of wheels built with Flows? ERD on the flows is 600 versus the light bikes 603. I did a rum swap on a wheelset that had Arch's and it went allright. Spokes were almost too long in some cases.


Every Flow I have measured has been 601.5mm
Should build fine regardless. If your spokes are already short you may have issues popping nipple heads.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Simplemind said:


> "Clean lines" whuz dat?
> Austin as in BCGB, so it's pretty danged technical, and yes I walk...alot! That said, I think Moab/Sedona is rocky as well, just smoother, and maybe cleaner lines.
> Weight 180# loaded up, and on a FS 4"-5" bike.
> I'm guessing that this will be a challenge for C-rims, but my current 3 y/o rims have no issues, and just recently broke my first spoke...ever. But I'm pretty conservative.


I'll be riding the same trails on my rigid.
I ride pretty hard, but smoothly... no walkie.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

meltingfeather said:


> I'll be riding the same trails on my rigid.
> I ride pretty hard, but smoothly... no walkie.


You definately "Da Mon"! I bet it's a SS or is it a fixie? I couldn't do that even when I was your age! :madman:
Like your handle but gotta ask, "meltingfeather" ...where does that come from?


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Anybody lace these rims to I9 hubs? If so what was the weight after you built them up?
thanks.


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## tark (Feb 28, 2011)

Have you all been able to seat your tires with a floor pump or do these rims require a compressor? Thinking about lacing up some Maxxis Ikons to them.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Simplemind said:


> You definately "Da Mon"! I bet it's a SS or is it a fixie? I couldn't do that even when I was your age! :madman:
> Like your handle but gotta ask, "meltingfeather" ...where does that come from?


lol
it's SS. i've been riding the greenbelt since i was a kid on my bmx bike.

it's a reference to Icarus... homage to my dad (a master craftsman alla Daedalus) and a reminder to keep my feet on the ground.


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Anyone laced these up with carbon spokes or Ti spokes yet?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

AC/BC said:


> Anyone laced these up with carbon spokes or Ti spokes yet?


If they did lace up with carbon spokes, would they be alive to post here. 

Did mavic ever iron out their issues with their r-sys wheels to get them to be more reliable?


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

I think I'm going to pull the trigger soon on the prebuilt "wider" 29er wheel. I am trying to figure out their hub options. I need a 20mm thru axle in front and 12x135 in rear. From what I can gather, the D711 Novatec hub won't convert to a 20mm axle - is that correct? Is my only option from what they offer the D881/882 Novatec hubs? What about the Rotaz hubs?

If the D881/882 is the only option that will work, how would those hubs compare to the Stans 3.30 hubs (which is what I have on my current wheels)?

Sorry if this has been addressed in the previous 78 pages - I have actually been following the thread for a while and have skimmed through but do not remember these questions in particular...

EDIT: - Never mind. Nancy was able to answer the hub offering question - D882 only option in back and she said D881 doesn't have 20mm option (which is incorrect per Novatec catalog). She recommended the DH61 front hub (downhill hub) for the 20mm axle...


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Disregard my previous post. New question:
If I pull the trigger on the prebuilt wheelset, I am torn between going with the Novatex DH61 front hub, D882 rear hub combo recommended by Nancy vs paying more to have them build the wheels with Hope Pro II hubs - that would cost $745, or basically $200 more for the different hubs.

The Hope Pro II hubs would be about 125 grams lighter and I would assume would be more bomb-proof than the Novatec hubs. 2 questions - do you agree/think that the Hope Pro II hub is higher quality than the Novatec hub? Would the additional cost be worth it? (Subjective, I know, but HOW much better are the Hopes?)

Thanks


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

albertdc said:


> do you agree/think that the Hope Pro II hub is higher quality than the Novatec hub?


Without a doubt.


albertdc said:


> Would the additional cost be worth it? (Subjective, I know, but HOW much better are the Hopes?)


Nobody can tell you if they are "worth it" to you.
ut:


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Without a doubt.
> 
> Nobody can tell you if they are "worth it" to you.
> ut:


I know the "worth it" question is impossible... but your first statement: "without a doubt" is what I was hoping for. If they were only marginally better, $200 wouldn't be worth it, but if they are truly much higher quality I'll probably go for it (the weight weenie in me will also be happier ).

Thanks
PS: any other hubs in the same pricepoint as the Hopes that I should consider and see whether they can source that would be better or lighter still?


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

this is now a hub thread?


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Go with the Hope hubs. For the money you can't get better than hope. To get better, your price is going up more than a few dollars.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

I had a really harsh frontal impact that burped the tire, filled a section of the rim with dirt (packed it into the rim bead) and the rim came out unscathed! I'm sure an AL would've been worse off if not taco'ed. I was scared to even inspect the rim cause I thought it would be damaged for sure, but not a single mark on it. Maybe lucky, but glad I had a carbon rim.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

bt said:


> this is now a hub thread?


Sorry....but it was related to the builds available from Nancy....Maybe I should have started a new thread. So, back to talking about rims... :thumbsup:



Lenny7 said:


> Go with the Hope hubs. For the money you can't get better than hope. To get better, your price is going up more than a few dollars.


....last thing about the hubs - thanks for the confirmation. Hope hubs it is.



bquinn said:


> I had a really harsh frontal impact that burped the tire, filled a section of the rim with dirt (packed it into the rim bead) and the rim came out unscathed! I'm sure an AL would've been worse off if not taco'ed. I was scared to even inspect the rim cause I thought it would be damaged for sure, but not a single mark on it. Maybe lucky, but glad I had a carbon rim.


Wow! That is great to hear! Good to know that they can take a beating and keep on rolling.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

I thinking of building a set up using ti spokes. I've heard ti spokes require higher tension. Higher than the 120 limit?


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Perhaps consider these new spokes:

Sapim CX Super | Roues Artisanales


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Lenny7 said:


> I thinking of building a set up using ti spokes. I've heard ti spokes require higher tension. Higher than the 120 limit?


There is no spoke that requires higher tension.
Build them to the same tension as any other spoke.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

How many with the narrow 29er rims (27.4mm external, 21mm internal) wish they'd went with the wide rims (30mm external, 23mm internal).


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## Espen (Feb 19, 2004)

Lenny7 said:


> I thinking of building a set up using ti spokes. I've heard ti spokes require higher tension. Higher than the 120 limit?


Not many hub manufacturers recomend more than 1200N

High spoke tension do'nt make good wheels alone.

e


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

bquinn said:


> I had a really harsh frontal impact that burped the tire, filled a section of the rim with dirt (packed it into the rim bead) and the rim came out unscathed! I'm sure an AL would've been worse off if not taco'ed. I was scared to even inspect the rim cause I thought it would be damaged for sure, but not a single mark on it. Maybe lucky, but glad I had a carbon rim.


Are you running them with the Bonty strips, or just tape?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

tark said:


> Have you all been able to seat your tires with a floor pump or do these rims require a compressor? Thinking about lacing up some Maxxis Ikons to them.


I have had excellent luck with Ikons and tape, but they won't mount with a floor pump. Always fold the tire inside out and let it sit for a few hours before trying to mount it. I have never had any luck mounting Ikons with a pump due to the lumpy beads.


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## tark (Feb 28, 2011)

ktm520 said:


> I have had excellent luck with Ikons and tape, but they won't mount with a floor pump. Always fold the tire inside out and let it sit for a few hours before trying to mount it. I have never had any luck mounting Ikons with a pump due to the lumpy beads.


Good to know. Thanks!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

meltingfeather said:


> Data point:
> 
> Bonty strips - 43.4g each
> Yellow tape - 6.1g each
> ...


IIRC, I weighed a NoTubes tubeless valve (with the round rubber base) and they were 7g each.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> IIRC, I weighed a NoTubes tubeless valve (with the round rubber base) and they were 7g each.


That seems about right. In any case, you need a valve for both setups, so there is no effect on the differential.
:thumbsup:


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## jhat (Sep 27, 2010)

Simplemind said:


> Did you weigh the set?


Sorry, I did not weigh the set. I did weigh the complete bike and liked the outcome but I have no idea of the wheel weight.

I have raced the wheels, including some very fast down hill sections now. I am very pleased with how they handle.


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## Espen (Feb 19, 2004)

I received 4 pc of the wide 29. Stiff light and good looking.
They weighted ~380-390g.
Got the wheels back from the wheelbuilder yesterday. 
Two turns of yellow stans tape and Ardent 2.4 seated like they did on Flow.

Test ride today.



e


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

BruceBrown said:


> Are you running them with the Bonty strips, or just tape?


The front had the strip but not the rear. Still in test mode. I swapped tires a few days ago and added the strip to the rear. I must admit, the tire seated easier with the strip vs yellow tape...much tighter fit which doesn't allow air to pass between rim and tire. I'll take the weight penalty for now.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

i was able to seat my nobby nics completely dry with the bonti strips and a floor pump, no soapy water or sealant, i then added some sealant after testing that out though


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Im tying to get them to produce a tubeless ready 38mm carbon clincher for cyclocross. How easy do you think this would this be?


----------



## manamana (Jul 30, 2006)

Would 2 or 3 layers of yellow tape do a similar job at the Bonty strips, as I'm struggling to find anyone local who has the strips or can get them in for me. I don't suppose anyone has found where to get them online?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

i would think any trek dealer can get them for you, if not looks like this UK store will ship to NZ
Bontrager Rhythm Tubeless Rim Strip Symmetric 29 | Evans Cycles


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

manamana said:


> Would 2 or 3 layers of yellow tape do a similar job at the Bonty strips,


No. It may work, but not in the same way as the strips.


manamana said:


> as I'm struggling to find anyone local who has the strips or can get them in for me. I don't suppose anyone has found where to get them online?


You can not buy them online. They need to come from a Trek/Bontrager dealer. Find one of those, and you've found a shop that has them or can order them for you. I paid USD$9.99 for mine (each). :thumbsup:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> *You can not buy them online*. They need to come from a Trek/Bontrager dealer. Find one of those, and you've found a shop that has them or can order them for you. I paid USD$9.99 for mine (each). :thumbsup:


I bought them online here: Bontrager Tubeless Replacement Parts - Essentials -Trek Store


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> I bought them online here: Bontrager Tubeless Replacement Parts - Essentials -Trek Store


they only ship to locations in the US though


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> I bought them online here: Bontrager Tubeless Replacement Parts - Essentials -Trek Store


I stand corrected.
GTK
Thanks for the tip! :thumbsup:


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

clewttu said:


> they only ship to locations in the US though


Oops... sorry, didn't realized you're outside of US.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> I stand corrected.
> GTK
> Thanks for the tip! :thumbsup:


Heads up tho...no valve stems!
I'm planning on cutting up a tube for mine.


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

manamana said:


> Would 2 or 3 layers of yellow tape do a similar job at the Bonty strips, as I'm struggling to find anyone local who has the strips or can get them in for me. I don't suppose anyone has found where to get them online?


I ordered them through a local shop in AKL over a year a go. They did sell a few Trek bikes though.
Were over $50 for a pair !

I had previously got some 26¨ ones From Evans cycles Uk.


----------



## manamana (Jul 30, 2006)

Cool, thanks for that fast responses guys!


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Sheepo5669 said:


> Im tying to get them to produce a tubeless ready 38mm carbon clincher for cyclocross. How easy do you think this would this be?


At least a year of going back and forth, showing need and proving demand. Or an moq of 10000 units, paid in advance.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Heads up tho...no valve stems!
> I'm planning on cutting up a tube for mine.


If you select the color "silver", the pull down option then lists the valves as being available.

You pretty much have to check the Bontrager website often as they only list what is in stock at the moment. The strips and valves come and go on the site based on their stock inventory.

BB


----------



## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Should these be built up with 12mm or 14mm nipples (or does it not matter)?

Based on the DT swiss calculator, when using the Hope Pro II Evo hubs, I need 3 sizes of spokes (291, 292, 293) if using 12mm nips but only 2 sizes (290, 291) if using 14mm nips. 

Having never built a wheel before, I'm not sure whether the length of nipple is solely determined by the rim or other factors, such as the above, as well. Recommendations?


EDIT: An additional question: if the calculator gives 292.8 as the spoke length, would you round UP to 293 or still down to 292? Thanks


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

albertdc said:


> Should these be built up with 12mm or 14mm nipples (or does it not matter)?


12mm



albertdc said:


> EDIT: An additional question: if the calculator gives 292.8 as the spoke length, would you round UP to 293 or still down to 292? Thanks


293mm


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Meltingfeather - Thank you! Ordered!


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Which rims are the lightest in this thread? where to buy? Cannot scan through all 79 pages, will someone tell me a link so I can order them?


----------



## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

Mattias,

light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike
take a look in the site.


----------



## mekul (Jul 15, 2010)

Hi, 
Looking to get a set of the pre-made wheels with the D881/882 novatec hubs. I have a GT sensor 29er which has a 15mm front axle. Don't know what the rear is though - 10mm or 12mm? Any ideas? The bike is not with me and I want to order the wheels soon. Did a web search and cant find the answer anywhere. 
Any help appreciated. 
Thanks, 
Luke


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## wyatt79m (Mar 3, 2007)

Mekul....the rear is 10mm on your sensor.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


----------



## winkplay (Apr 24, 2012)

Hi,

Has anyone any experience on buying complete built wheelset using dt Swiss or chris king hubs, dirrct from light bicycle? How is the quality of the wheel building? Which spokes did u get light bicycle to use?
Looking to buy complete wheelset from Nancy but using more reputable hubs.
Any feedback is appreciated.
I read through some of these pages but not all.


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

I think you are better off having them built by someone local if you want to go that route, doubt the wheels would be any cheaper if they could even source CK's. 
As for LB's prebuilt quality, here is my very recent experience. I bought a set of 26" rims to build up myself a while back for my main bike, i liked them enough (as well as hearing everyone elses experiences) to buy a set of the 29" prebuilts for my rigid ss. I kind of wanted to see how the quality was and at the same time Id save some money over how i would have built them. I went with 881/882 with 9/10mm thru bolts and the standard bladed spokes they use. Just got them last week, and while not terrible, im kinda wishing id just bought the rims alone. The spokes on the rear were the wrong lengths by 1-2mm, with the drive side being on the long side and the nds being on the short side. Tensions also seemed a little low and not always uniform, which was an easy enough fix. 
I emailed nancy just to have it on record in case these spokes start failing, she said it was ok, that they have built hundreds this way. Im not all that worried about it, i went into it planning on upgrading hubs down the road anyway and will get new spokes at that time, just hope its not sooner than expected, or if it is LB will take care of me

difficult to get a good picture


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

winkplay said:


> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone any experience on buying complete built wheelset using dt Swiss or chris king hubs, dirrct from light bicycle? How is the quality of the wheel building? Which spokes did u get light bicycle to use?
> Looking to buy complete wheelset from Nancy but using more reputable hubs.
> Any feedback is appreciated.


don't think that it possible.
i believe the "options" if you want a complete wheelset are novatec & pillar
if you want reputable components and building, i believe Mike C. is building sets with the Nancy rims.


----------



## bykerider (Feb 17, 2009)

Due to everyones (mostly positive) results with these rims I ordered a set of the heavy wide 29er rims in ud matte finnish. Communication was very fast and generally good, rims took about 10 days longer than quoted(not too bad). 

They arrived today and I was very impressed with the overall quality. I got them built this afternoon. Weight with yellow tape, 32 DT double butted spokes/alloy nips and white industries through axel hubs cam in at 1850 for the pair. They built up very well, not as easily as say a set of mavic open pro road rims, but much easier than a set of flows. ERD measurements were very consistent on both wheels at 603mm.

I was not looking for the lightest build possible, more interested in stiffer and wider. Thanks to everyone who got in the water first! I will give an update on the ride quality/ tublessability after a dozen or so rides.


----------



## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

bykerider said:


> Weight with yellow tape, 32 DT double butted spokes/alloy nips and white industries through axel hubs cam in at 1850 for the pair.


?? I don't understand how your wheels weigh so much, and if so why you would not just buy a more standard wheel that is as stiff, costs same or less and is likely more durable - like AmClasdic tubeless, etc.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Motivated said:


> ?? I don't understand how your wheels weigh so much, and if so why you would not just buy a more standard wheel that is as stiff, costs same or less and is likely more durable - like AmClasdic tubeless, etc.


AC hubs are really light. Any wheelset with King hubs, for instance, is probably going to be pushing 1800g.


----------



## bykerider (Feb 17, 2009)

Motivated said:


> ?? I don't understand how your wheels weigh so much, and if so why you would not just buy a more standard wheel that is as stiff, costs same or less and is likely more durable - like AmClasdic tubeless, etc.


Let me start by saying I weigh in at 240 american LBS, I have destroyed a number of bike parts.

All of American classics products suc even if you weigh 120lbs, but when you double that they suc times 4. Dont ask me how the math adds up, it just does I think they call it the inverse square law.

I weighted my options when picking hubs and spokes. for spokes I might have picked up some lighter ones for not too much more dough, but I would start breaking them, and would soon be replacing them with 64 new standard dbl butted spokes. Which would cost me time and money, and the wheels would not be any lighter than they are already.

I dont like rebuilding hubs every 6mo. so I will not own another set of kings, I dont like replacing $60 worth oh bearings every season so hopes are out, I dont like making the star ratchet skip in tough terrain so 240s are out, I dont like my rotor rubbing so xtr's are out, and I dont have the loot for Haddleys(spelling?). The white IND hubs are inexpensive, simple to service, available in 12x142 rear, they use oversized steel axels/ custom double wide bearings(read STIFF, also heavy) plus they look P-I-M-P.

So heavy hubs make a heavy wheelset, I thought the whole point was to save weight as far away from the center of a rotating object as possible. Like at the rim.

Carbon rims can be much stiffer than aluminum rims and with less mass. I very much doubt that there is an aluminum rimmed wheelset that can beat these wheels when considering the width and stiffness of these wheels for the same price , and that does not factor in the relatively low weight of these rims.

Lastly Carbon rims get you way more phone numbers at the trailhead


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Ordered my set about 12 days ago - was told they would take 8-10 days - but the order just got delayed another 10 days. Not upset - just keeping everyone posted on lead times.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

broadwayline said:


> Ordered my set about 12 days ago - was told they would take 8-10 days - but the order just got delayed another 10 days. Not upset - just keeping everyone posted on lead times.


Rims only or complete wheel build? Did you request any special characteristics for the rim (weight, etc)? Just trying to figure out a realistic ETA for the rims I just ordered a couple of days ago.

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

albertdc said:


> Rims only or complete wheel build? Did you request any special characteristics for the rim (weight, etc)? Just trying to figure out a realistic ETA for the rims I just ordered a couple of days ago.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S3


Was just swapping msg w/ Nancy. She has UD matte finish "wider" and "heavier" 29er 32h rims in stock and can ship immediately. I changed my 3K glossy to this to get them sooner, else a 12 day wait for production.

Edit: rims only.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

albertdc said:


> Rims only or complete wheel build? Did you request any special characteristics for the rim (weight, etc)? Just trying to figure out a realistic ETA for the rims I just ordered a couple of days ago.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S3


I asked for sub 400g 3k matte rims only - they said there are 17 orders ahead of mine before they get built - apparently they are overloaded with orders


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## Smir (Jul 23, 2012)

"cheap" also means poor quality.. surely.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Smir said:


> "cheap" also means poor quality.. surely.


Cheap means less expensive in regards to these rims and dont call me shirley


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Smir said:


> "cheap" also means poor quality.. surely.


"There's a Sale at Penny's...!"


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Smir said:


> "cheap" also means poor quality.. surely.


Assessed how, strictly from the word "cheap" (which is a terrible metric), or did you actually get a sample and test?


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## kingair (Jun 2, 2008)

I recently picked up six rims and four water bottle holders from light bicycles, here's the breakdown on how I used them:

For my wife's road bike - 1 20 hole 38mm clincher laced radially to a chris king r45 hub, 1 24 hole 50mm clincher laced 2x to a chris king r45 hub

For my road bike - 2 28 hole 50mm clinchers laced 2x front and rear (I'm 220lbs) to 240s hubs

For my 26in mtn bike - 2 "wider 26er" 32 hole laced 3x to chris king hubs

So for less than the price of one enve rim I have three pairs of these things. I built all the wheels so I've handled the rims extensively. The road bikes have several hundred miles on them and the mtn bike has I don't know, a fair amount of use. Bottom line is in my experience and in my opinion the rims are pretty much flawless. I'm just about to pull the trigger on a couple more rims for my 29er.

Oh, the water bottle holders are nice too.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

broadwayline said:


> I asked for sub 400g 3k matte rims only - they said there are 17 orders ahead of mine before they get built - apparently they are overloaded with orders


Oh man, bummer. That's exactly what I ordered too. Thanks for posting - it helps to be prepared for the delay. If you think of it, please post (or PM me) an update when your rims ship or arrive.

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

kingair said:


> ......
> 
> So for less than the price of one enve rim I have three pairs of these things. I built all the wheels so I've handled the rims extensively. The road bikes have several hundred miles on them and the mtn bike has I don't know, a fair amount of use. Bottom line is in my experience and in my opinion the rims are pretty much flawless. I'm just about to pull the trigger on a couple more rims for my 29er.
> 
> Oh, the water bottle holders are nice too.


That is a great summary and feedback! Nice to hear such a positive impression.

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## Nhunt46051 (Mar 30, 2011)

Any one on here that has bought these and built them up interested in building a set to sale? I'm intersted in a lighter wheelset for my Hardtail 29er, mainly for racing. I have no expierence building wheelsets.

Thanks!


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## jhat (Sep 27, 2010)

Where do you live?


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## Nhunt46051 (Mar 30, 2011)

jhat said:


> Where do you live?


Indianapolis


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

I live just 15min south of Indy, but I have only built one set on my own so far. I have been waiting a month for Hadley Hubs so I can build my second set. There are some reputable shops in the area like Indy Cycle Specialists or Bicycle Outfitters Indy who might build for a reasonable price. I might be inclined to help after I build my 2nd set and get a bit more experience under my belt.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Smir said:


> "cheap" also means poor quality.. surely.


A Lexus sedan is "cheap" compared to some of its European competition. I would argue that the Lexus offers the same performance as many of its more expensive competitors.

Lexus is not cheap quality.

Your reasoning is usually correct imo, but not in this case.


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## Nhunt46051 (Mar 30, 2011)

Nhunt46051 said:


> Any one on here that has bought these and built them up interested in building a set to sale? I'm intersted in a lighter wheelset for my Hardtail 29er, mainly for racing. I have no expierence building wheelsets.
> 
> Thanks!


I emailed Light-Bikes to see what it would cost me to have them make them with either Hadley or DT Swiss 240 hubs. Anyone buy any premade from this company, if so what are your thoughts?


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

Feedback:

I’ve been riding my carbons for ~900 miles and recently had a rear hub problem and had to swap in my rear Arch wheel. Well the Arch flexes way more than my carbon wheel and the Arch is 32 spokes and my carbon is 28 spokes. There were a few times I got off thinking the tire was low but is wasn’t just flexing. I’ve been treating my carbon wheels like I do all my wheelsets and have plenty rock scuffs on them. A couple of times hitting a rock so that you get that feeling of the rim bottoming out but no problems so far. 

Arch wheel: 32H ZRT hub and Supercomp spokes.
Carbon wheel: 28H HyperLite and Xray spokes.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Nhunt46051 said:


> I emailed Light-Bikes to see what it would cost me to have them make them with either Hadley or DT Swiss 240 hubs. Anyone buy any premade from this company, if so what are your thoughts?


i do not believe they build with the brand of hubs you mentioned.

perhaps you have a bike shop that could do the job for you after you buy the rims from light bicycle?


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

One carbon rim for $160 plus a gazillion $ for shipping, or Flow's on sale for $50 each and $16 shipping for two rims. Guess I'm lacing Flows and taking the weigh penalty.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

yes but for losing a half pound of rotating weight that's not a bad price.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Smir said:


> "cheap" also means poor quality.. surely.


Well, sometimes it does. Sometimes cheap is truly cheap, and sometimes it is just marked up less. I wouldn't exactly call $175 landed 'cheap' for a rim.

Expensive means higher quality... sometimes. Much of the time, expensive means there are more middlemen in the process, taking their cut, and sometimes expensive is just emptying your wallet for no benefit. Often, more expensive just means you are lining somebody else's bank account.

So, if these are the same exact rims as the name brand bling selling for $2000, and you just get less support, is that $1400 worth it for the support?

That is the question.


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## jhat (Sep 27, 2010)

Nhunt46051 said:


> Indianapolis


I might be willing to build a set but I do not want to deal with shipping and I am in n.e. Wisconsin. If only you were closer.


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## jhat (Sep 27, 2010)

Nhunt46051 said:


> I emailed Light-Bikes to see what it would cost me to have them make them with either Hadley or DT Swiss 240 hubs. Anyone buy any premade from this company, if so what are your thoughts?


I have seen wheels from them. I have built with their rims and I feel that the rims are very good. The built up wheels that i saw had spoke tensions that were all over the place. The rims build up very well and spoke tension for mine are very consistent so I know it is not the rims. I think they may not spend enough time finishing the build but then the prices are very good. For me, I am happy to buy the rims and build myself.

Edit:

I should note that I am training and racing on their wider 29 rims. I built them up with CK hubs and I really like them.


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## Knight Rider (Jul 27, 2012)

My buddy has a set of these rims. So far they have turned out pretty good for him. I am still hesitant to buy a set though.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

The cost of competitive carbon rimmed wheels like various Rovals is coming down. And you must compare equivalent hubsets. Most custom built LB wheels with nice hubs are going to be $800-$1200 finished. On average, that's only about $600 off Rovals, certainly not $1700. ENVE and maybe Reynolds and Easton are boutique in my mind and not a real comparison. 

What LB should do is offer more hub options - if they could just offer DTSwiss, that would double their sales - even if the cost was $1000 per set.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Motivated said:


> What LB should do is offer more hub options - if they could just offer DTSwiss, that would double their sales - even if the cost was $1000 per set.


The trick would be convincing DT (or any other quality hub manufacturer) to make them an authorized dealer and ship hubs to them.
Not exactly the model I think mfr's like CK, DT, I9 & Hadley are looking for. The best option for consumers is to get someone like Mikesee to build them a set on the hubs they want.
Has anybody done any q/c on these LB+Novatec wheel builds?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> The trick would be convincing DT (or any other quality hub manufacturer) to make them an authorized dealer and ship hubs to them.
> Not exactly the model I think mfr's like CK, DT, I9 & Hadley are looking for. The best option for consumers is to get someone like Mikesee to build them a set on the hubs they want.
> Has anybody done any q/c on these LB+Novatec wheel builds?


i posted a little on the previou page, post #1970
not the best build, to say the least


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

I know they can get Hope Pro 2 hubs and build them up. The first time they quoted me a price, it wasn't bad, but in the next email the price was higher. Especially with the suspect build quality, I decided to build them up myself and have the shop tension them (just ordered recently, still waiting...).

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

deoreo said:


> Just to lessen some confusion, ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation) has absolutely nothing to do with UST.
> 
> UST is a tubeless bicycle tire system developed by Mavic.
> All the ETRTO does, is now recognise that standard- that's it. Just like DOT in the USA, and JATMA in Japan.
> ...


It looks to me like the term UST has basically no value. Apparently Mavic gifted the ETRTO their tubeless bead profile - ie they are exactly the same.

Beyond that UST appears to be licensing for the differentiating 'UST' logo only as:
1) They do have the same tubeless bead profile.
2) UST doesn't require a sealed rim bed (Crossrides are UST certified but use tape ,ditto ENVEs).
3) Doesn't require sealant-free operation anymore (UST pythons).

While the ETRTO standard can be purchased I've never seen reference to the Mavic UST standard. I suspect it is more a 'contract'.


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## Glen75 (Apr 28, 2009)

I did a search, but could not find the answer-Still waiting on LB to reply also.

I'm looking to run some 35 or 40c cyclecross tyres on these rims on the road. 

What pressure would i be able to run? I was hoping to run 80psi or similar. Will the rims handle it ok?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Glen75 said:


> I did a search, but could not find the answer-Still waiting on LB to reply also.
> 
> I'm looking to run some 35 or 40c cyclecross tyres on these rims on the road.
> 
> What pressure would i be able to run? I was hoping to run 80psi or similar. Will the rims handle it ok?


I don't see a problem with that. IIRC, (and you probalby want to double check me on this) but the inside rim bead on the XC rim is like 21mm. I thought the rule was that you don't want a tire narrower than the rim bead width, so I think 35c or 40c is okay. I mean, narrow 29er mountain tires (like a 1.9") are 45c, right? You don't seem too far off of that. The Nancy-Wide rims are 27mm inside, I think. Even there, you're probably fine.

I used to bike commute with my 29er hardtail with Bontrager Mustang XC rims, and I had 35c comfort bike tires on there. It worked great.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Glen75 said:


> I did a search, but could not find the answer-Still waiting on LB to reply also.
> 
> I'm looking to run some 35 or 40c cyclecross tyres on these rims on the road.
> 
> What pressure would i be able to run? I was hoping to run 80psi or similar. Will the rims handle it ok?


I would be concerned about trying to go to 80psi. Check post #1737 from 3 weeks ago. A guy was installing MTB tires, tubeless, and blew up the rim at 70psi. Not sure if the tire let go and took the rim with it or whether the rim failed first. He was also installing tubeless, so I am not sure whether running tubes would provide more protection. I guess there is only 1 way to find out, but it may have catastrophic consequences! Wear safety glasses and pads.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

I've been running 40c tires at 80psi since last March. No worries. For road rims light-bicycle recommends a 130psi max.


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## Glen75 (Apr 28, 2009)

hogprint said:


> I've been running 40c tires at 80psi since last March. No worries. For road rims light-bicycle recommends a 130psi max.


So just confirming you have the wide AM 29er rim at 80 psi with no problems on 40c tyres?


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## viccoastal (Sep 18, 2005)

yes, I had I9's with flow rims. I was able to re-use the same spokes.
After 20 hrs of riding they have been great!


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

on the 27 wide Chinese Carbon Rim from _bike empowerment_, running 700x32 at 90-100 psi in the rear, probably 1000 miles, brake skidding and all. Broke a spoke, rim fine. Tire fine. Tube fine. Rim fine!


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## purdyboy (Nov 15, 2005)

Along with the all the absolutely fabulous philosophical posturing over things such as 'cheap' and 'quality'...

...May I request that people also post up measured rim weights (or finished wheel weights with build spec) and photos, indicating flaws or lack thereof.

Keep the informative reviews and info coming, thanks.


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## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

albertdc said:


> I would be concerned about trying to go to 80psi. Check post #1737 from 3 weeks ago. A guy was installing MTB tires, tubeless, and blew up the rim at 70psi. Not sure if the tire let go and took the rim with it or whether the rim failed first. He was also installing tubeless, so I am not sure whether running tubes would provide more protection. I guess there is only 1 way to find out, but it may have catastrophic consequences! Wear safety glasses and pads.


Don't forget the smaller the tire has less area and hence less force exerted on the bead.
From memory Stans limit of 40psi on their ZTR rims relates to a 2.4" tire.


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## Glen75 (Apr 28, 2009)

gvs_nz said:


> Don't forget the smaller the tire has less area and hence less force exerted on the bead.
> From memory Stans limit of 40psi on their ZTR rims relates to a 2.4" tire.


Hi can you please explain the smaller tyre-exerts less pressure for me in a simpler format so i can get my head around it?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Glen75 said:


> Hi can you please explain the smaller tyre-exerts less pressure for me in a simpler format so i can get my head around it?


So pressure is measured in pounds per square inch. This means If you have more square inches (area), then at the same pressure you have more force.

Imagine that the pressure inside the tire tries to escape by pushing on the sidewall. The sidewall is hooked on the bead of the rim and pulls that outwards.

A larger tire has a Larger side wall. So at the same pressure there's much more force pulling on the bead.


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## vikingboy (Nov 5, 2008)

P=F/A surely?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

:arf:


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Glen75 said:


> So just confirming you have the wide AM 29er rim at 80 psi with no problems on 40c tyres?


Yes. I have the wide AM 29er rim. I ran 40c tires at 60-80psi all spring on my gravel grinder and for the summer have been running 28c road tires at 110psi. I have these rims laced to King ISO disc hubs with DT Swiss comps on my Salsa Vaya Ti. Totally happy, have a second set under build right now (same spec) and about to order a 3rd set to replace the flows on my I9's thanks to the recent info. (thanks viccoastal)


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Has anyone had problems with delayed EMS shipping? 

My previous order was delivered in 4 days but my most recent order hasn't arrived after 9 days. The previous order took 3 days to go from Xiamen to New York. My current order left Xiamen 9 days ago but hasn't been seen since!

I'm wondering if customs could be an issue or perhaps it was simply lost.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

For those of you running high pressures ( 80psi and above) - Are you running tubeless? Are they wire beads? The only tires I run that high are hutchinson tubeless road tires. My opinion is that running 80+psi is asking for trouble unless they are wire bead tires. Plus, why run a 40c tire at 80psi. For all around surfaces 40-50psi(tubeless) is great. Lower if you are mostly on gravel and dirt.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

dfiler said:


> Has anyone had problems with delayed EMS shipping?
> 
> My previous order was delivered in 4 days but my most recent order hasn't arrived after 9 days. The previous order took 3 days to go from Xiamen to New York. My current order left Xiamen 9 days ago but hasn't been seen since!
> 
> I'm wondering if customs could be an issue or perhaps it was simply lost.


Probably in customs... After it gets there, it's usually just a waiting game. Could be a day or two, could be weeks. Sometimes EMS tracking works in the States, sometimes it doesn't. Carbon products usually move through quickly, apparel and shoes on the other hand, not so fast.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

mattsavage said:


> Probably in customs... After it gets there, it's usually just a waiting game. Could be a day or two, could be weeks. Sometimes EMS tracking works in the States, sometimes it doesn't. Carbon products usually move through quickly, apparel and shoes on the other hand, not so fast.


Thanks. Perhaps I just got lucky the first time with 4 day delivery. I assumed it was more consistent because 4 days was predicted from light-bicycle in the original email that listed the tracking number.

[EDIT] Update: the EMS website finally lists the package as having arrived in the New York sorting facility. It took 9 days to get there from Xiamen. That'll put the total shipping at 11 or 12 days. (not including time between placing the order and it shipping) So if you're eagerly anticipating delivery, here's another data point for the estimate.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Andy13 said:


> For those of you running high pressures ( 80psi and above) - Are you running tubeless? Are they wire beads? The only tires I run that high are hutchinson tubeless road tires. My opinion is that running 80+psi is asking for trouble unless they are wire bead tires. Plus, why run a 40c tire at 80psi. For all around surfaces 40-50psi(tubeless) is great. Lower if you are mostly on gravel and dirt.


Like, it was said before... smaller tires exert less pressure because of less surface area pulling the tire out.

And wire bead tubeless? Wire beads are springy, so I would think rim blow-offs would be more of a issue.


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

For your consumption...a wide 23mm carbon light bicycles wheelset with 32 bladed pillar spokes and a 15mm front hub/12x142 rear hub pre-built wheelset weighed in at 1700 grams. About 275-300 grams lighter than the WTB i23 frequency wheels coming stock on the new tallboy ltc bikes. Was hoping they would be lighter, but they do have 32 spokes and are wider. They better hold up like an AM wheel.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Wider than the i23s? ??
.

.


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

Um....no, the same. The 23 in i23 means 23mm internal width.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Has anyone used the "wider" 26" rim on a DH bike...some 110x20mm front and 150x12mm rear hubs?

Edit: yeah yeah, I know...wrong forum. But this is the deepest thread on this topic. There must be at least _one_ of you who also ride DH...?!?!


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

argibson said:


> about 275-300 grams lighter than the wtb i23 frequency wheels....... But they do have 32 spokes and are wider.


.
.
.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Pau11y said:


> Has anyone used the "wider" 26" rim on a DH bike...some 110x20mm front and 150x12mm rear hubs?
> 
> Edit: yeah yeah, I know...wrong forum. But this is the deepest thread on this topic. There must be at least _one_ of you who also ride DH...?!?!


Also interested for my DH bike - any comments?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I've considered running some light bicycle rims on my DH bike but decided against it until some reports start coming in. 

A front wheel would likely be fine. But rear wheels take a lot of abuse directly to the bead/sidewall when bottoming out through the tire on a rock impacts. In that scenario, overall rigidity is less important than how easily the sidewall deforms or shatters.

I put a few flat spots, dents, and bulges in my rear rim each season. With aluminum rims these are still rideable. The wire bead of downhill tires will stay in a rim despite some lather large deformations. 

With carbon, who knows if these could of been cracks or splits instead. Even if 9 times out of 10 the carbon would be fine, it's that 10th time that could ruin the rim under downhill abuse. Time will tell if that 9 out of 10 is more like 99 out of 100 or 999 out of 1000. That will determine how many people find carbon rims to be suitable for downhill.


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

purdyboy said:


> ...May I request that people also post up measured rim weights (or finished wheel weights with build spec) and photos, indicating flaws or lack thereof.


No. 

But... just another quick review:

Cheap Chinese Carbon Rims have been on my bike for about 6 weeks now with lots of miles including 20 laps o' the local jump trail with numerous solid cases on a sniper trail gap, 8 days of black diamond in the Whistler bike park and another 4 days at Trestle for the Colorado Freeride Festival Enduro with zero incidents and no truing. That _easily_ makes this the most trouble-free setup i've ridden on my WFO regardless of weight. It also happens to be the lightest setup I've used on this bike. Ruffians Rejoice.

Bike - WFO 9 
Wheel - Wider rims, Matte, 3k, 36h laced with 14/15 DT swiss to Hope Pro 2
Tire - Tubeless with Gorilla Tape and Hans Dampf 29
Rider - 170lbs

JMH


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## bykerider (Feb 17, 2009)

perhaps not the right place to ask this, but I got a neg. rep. for a previous post in this tread. the person who neg. raped me also included a comment..."Tried to find the humor in your post, but all I found was smelly poo"

my question is, what is rep.? why is it at all useful for us users of this forum? Why can a person send me this private comment that was designed to be insulting but not show their face(user name)?

please help me understand


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

bykerider said:


> perhaps not the right place to ask this, but I got a neg. rep. for a previous post in this tread. the person who neg. raped me also included a comment..."Tried to find the humor in your post, but all I found was smelly poo"
> 
> my question is, what is rep.? why is it at all useful for us users of this forum? Why can a person send me this private comment that was designed to be insulting but not show their face(user name)?
> 
> please help me understand


The world is full of dooooshbhaggery... doubly true on the internets. Some folks feel that they can say whatever they want because their identity is hidden.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

bykerider said:


> ... neg. raped me ...


That is harsh


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I know this is old, but...*



WR304 said:


> I didn't write the rim weights down anywhere. A little under 400g each I think.
> 
> I replaced the rear derailleur with another SRAM X-0 rear mech, new gear inner, fitted a new chain and trued the rear wheel today. The wheel straightened up ok and the carbon rim appears to be fine.
> 
> ...


Looks like the pulley wheel bolt got loose and fell out. It happens from time to time.

I always remove mine and re-install them with blue loctite for that exact reason.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> The world is full of dooooshbhaggery... doubly true on the internets. Some folks feel that they can say whatever they want because their identity is hidden.


Personally, I think the anonym rep system is the biggest piece of 5h!t to have been implemented for forums. There's a HUGE stink about it on the CO/Front Range forum. Whoever decided that it was a good idea, needs to extract his/her head from their rectum!

Watch me get banned for this because I've hurt the "super" mod's prissy little ego


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Agreed!*



Pau11y said:


> Personally, I think the anonym rep system is the biggest piece of 5h!t to have been implemented for forums. There's a HUGE stink about it on the CO/Front Range forum. Whoever decided that it was a good idea, needs to extract his/her head from their rectum!
> 
> Watch me get banned for this because I've hurt the "super" mod's prissy little ego


I started a petition in the 'Site Feedback' forum on this very subject.

Please, chime in if you agree (or disagree) with me.

Here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/site-feedbac...-anonymous-reputation-804597.html#post9552124


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

bykerider said:


> perhaps not the right place to ask this, but I got a neg. rep. for a previous post in this tread. the person who neg. raped me also included a comment..."Tried to find the humor in your post, but all I found was smelly poo"


I hate to feed the system and add another off-topic post to a very lengthy thread but just want to say it wasn't me. I questioned you wheelbuild, you explained it. Done.

If someone finds a post to be offensive then the moderator should remove the post and inform the author - shape up or get kicked out. I don't understand the benefit of + or - rep.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Now back to talking about the wheels. A couple of questions for everyone, as I have tried to read through all 82 pages now, but sometimes see conflicting info.

1) I can only find this to be feasible if I can swap out my Flow rims for these. The ERD of the hopes are 600, while the carbon 29ers are 603. Is that going to be a problem for my I9 Enduro hubs and spokes? 

2) I weigh 210 pounds with gear and Nancy says there is a 95kg or 209 pound weight limit for these rims. So should I go up to the heavier rims? I don't have much of a problem with that, as I ride aggressively, and these will be going on my Niner WFO.

Thanks for any info - BS


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Sorry - Double Post


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

BullSCit said:


> Now back to talking about the wheels. A couple of questions for everyone, as I have tried to read through all 82 pages now, but sometimes see conflicting info.
> 
> 1) I can only find this to be feasible if I can swap out my Flow rims for these. The ERD of the hopes are 600, while the carbon 29ers are 603. Is that going to be a problem for my I9 Enduro hubs and spokes?
> 
> ...


I'm only 195 geared up, and I'm waiting for the heavier ones. With 32h 3x, I'm thinking they'll be plenty strong to deal w/ AM duties...especially if I slap on some Conti Trail King 2.4s, yeah? 

As for ERD...I've heard 1 or 2 is okay, but 3 might be pushing things... Now, I'm talking about steel spokes, where you can get a die and cut some more threads. On those I9 (aluminum) spokes...??? That said, can't you buy some more spokes from I9, or is that reaching into the cost prohibitive zone? Keep in mind, a DT Swiss EXC400 based wheelset is $2500! These Nancy rims, admittedly isn't the same class as those DT EXCs, are still in the same weight range...so maybe only giving up a touch in strength?


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> As for ERD...I've heard 1 or 2 is okay, but 3 might be pushing things...


So since I will be going from a smaller to a larger ERD rim, I will have less threads for the spoke to thread into my hub. And after looking at my hubs and spokes, it seems my dreams have been crushed, as the spokes (especially on the front hub) are only threaded about halfway through the threaded holes on the hub. So losing another 3mm would probably be very bad.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

BullSCit said:


> So since I will be going from a smaller to a larger ERD rim, I will have less threads for the spoke to thread into my hub. And after looking at my hubs and spokes, it seems my dreams have been crushed, as the spokes (especially on the front hub) are only threaded about halfway through the threaded holes on the hub. So losing another 3mm would probably be very bad.


That would be my assumption too.

Keep in mind that spokes never see much compression load. When compressed, spokes merely bend to the side. Instead, spokes see almost entirely tensile loads, meaning that under heavy usage, force is attempting to stretch the spokes.

Spokes that are too short will exert that force on far fewer threads. The end result is either stripping the threads and the spoke being pulled out, or the nipple can be pulled apart. If properly threaded all the way into the nipple, a spoke goes all the way to the flange of the nipple and results in a compressive load on that flange rather than the entire load being carried by the middle of the nipple as it is pulled on by the spoke.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

So did I get some shorter spokes for my wheelset (they were actually built up by I9 themselves), as there are a couple of posts on this thread that said that they did what I want to do with no problem. I did an image search on Google on the I9 Enduro hub, and some pics have a couple of mm extra spoke hanging out the end of the hub. It seems if only half of the threaded hole on the hub is being used, that either my spokes loosened up a lot (but they are all still in the tension specs I9 sent me), or I9 built it up with short spokes. Is there an easy way to know what length my spokes are?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

BullSCit said:


> Now back to talking about the wheels. A couple of questions for everyone, as I have tried to read through all 82 pages now, but sometimes see conflicting info.
> 
> 1) I can only find this to be feasible if I can swap out my Flow rims for these. The ERD of the hopes are 600, while the carbon 29ers are 603. Is that going to be a problem for my I9 Enduro hubs and spokes?
> 
> ...


I'm 208 and got the regular NancyWide rims. I feel they are solid enough, but I don't have a problem with destroying rims anyway. I ride pretty fast on the rocky descents, but I ride pretty mellow, really. I don't do much for drops, big air, gaps or tailwhips or anything.

So, I would say that if weight wasn't a huge concern (you're still going to save a bunch of weight over your Flows), just go for the NancyWideHeavy rims. We're only talking an extra 20-30g per hoop... which is still 100g lighter than a Flow rim, and probably as stiff if not stiffer.


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## manamana (Jul 30, 2006)

Just a bit more info for the thread. I have an order for a complete wheel set, and it has been delayed slightly as one of the rims did not come out to a standard they were happy with. It's a bit of a bummer that they are delayed, but it's good to hear that they are taking QC seriously and making sure the product is right before sending it out.


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

Also have ha significant delays. I made a large order for a frame, seatpost, cages and six sets of wheels on July 4th. Should receive the last of the order mid next week. When I ordered I was told 12 days to my door. They seem overwhelmed, not scamming, but be advised the are probably over committing to delivery times. 

Also, the 32h wide 29er wheels came in quite a bit heavier than I hoped...just over 1700.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

BullSCit said:


> So since I will be going from a smaller to a larger ERD rim, I will have less threads for the spoke to thread into my hub. And after looking at my hubs and spokes, it seems my dreams have been crushed, as the spokes (especially on the front hub) are only threaded about halfway through the threaded holes on the hub. So losing another 3mm would probably be very bad.


well, 1.5mm (more or less).

The ERD measurement is the diameter of the circle, the spoke length is the radius of the circle (and a bit less the triangle offset kinda thing, which isn't much).


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

*Helin 29er rims*

I got my 29er wide rims from Helin yesterday. They didn´t have UD matte in stock, so I had to wait 2 weeks. After that the shipping took 5 days. Shipping cost was 3 times cheaper than LB. Rims were wrapped on bubbles and packed on carton box - pretty primitive.
391+393g. 32H, UD matte.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Rainerhq said:


> I got my 29er wide rims from Helin yesterday. They didn´t have UD matte in stock, so I had to wait 2 weeks. After that the shipping took 5 days. Shipping cost was 3 times cheaper than LB. Rims were wrapped on bubbles and packed on carton box - pretty primitive.
> 391+393g. 32H, UD matte.


Prices?


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Maybe? Crazy shipping. 
.
Aliexpress.com : Buy 29er carbon mountain rims,20mm carbon MTB rims from Reliable 29er mtb carbon rim suppliers on Helin Liu's store


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

Pau11y said:


> Prices?


Rims 290$
Shipping 40$
Helins site

LB quoted 310+125$


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

One of my rims started stress cracking at several nipples before a tire was mounted.
32h, wide 29er rims.
Built to 105 kgf.
Not only are cracks apparent but there are noticeable inward bulges from the spoke tension as well.
I will be contacting LB and will post up what happens, as well as some pictures once I get my macro lens back.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Rainerhq said:


> Rims 290$
> Shipping 40$
> Helins site
> 
> LB quoted 310+125$


I'm reading $360 for the 20mm profile, 30mm width 29er rims, which is the same price for my LB order, including shipping...and I'm not sure if the Helins include shipping.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

it was only $330+$50 to the US for my LB rims, looks like the rims are $360 (not sure if that includes shipping) on the site you linked


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Rainerhq said:


> Rims 290$
> Shipping 40$
> Helins site
> 
> LB quoted 310+125$


Interesting. I'm still waiting for my order from Light-Bicycles and am at least 1 more week out. May have to change my order to, but my question is this...

Are these the same rims (as in from the same factory) as the ones from Light-Bicycles or are these similar rims but made by carbonspeedcycle instead? If they are a different source, do we have any feedback on them yet as far as bead profile, ability to run tubeless, and quality?

Thanks


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

albertdc said:


> Interesting. I'm still waiting for my order from Light-Bicycles and am at least 1 more week out. May have to change my order to, but my question is this...
> 
> Are these the same rims (as in from the same factory) as the ones from Light-Bicycles or are these similar rims but made by carbonspeedcycle instead? If they are a different source, do we have any feedback on them yet as far as bead profile, ability to run tubeless, and quality?
> 
> Thanks


JUST got an email from Nancy. She told me the production line is backed up due to the 650b production. She has 1 of my 2 wider & heavier rim tested and will be testing the 2nd shortly, after clear coating. If it tests out okay, I'll have my glossy 3k finish rims. It's been 3 wks, but since I won't have my frame (Tallboy LTc) for another 2 weeks as of today, no big deal.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Pau11y said:


> JUST got an email from Nancy. She told me the production line is backed up due to the 650b production.


That is actually excellent news!!!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

mattsavage said:


> That is actually excellent news!!!


Agreed! 
The busier they are, the more they'll make, the more availability there will be, and hopefully the cheaper carbon rims will become! :thumbsup:

Edit: and before the economists in this bunch pipes up, STUFF IT!


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Pau11y said:


> Agreed!
> The busier they are, the more they'll make, the more availability there will be, and hopefully the cheaper carbon rims will become! :thumbsup:
> 
> Edit: and before the economists in this bunch pipes up, STUFF IT!


I was mostly referring to the 650b production... That's what I'm waiting on! I couldn't really careless about 29er stuff...


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

mattsavage said:


> I was mostly referring to the 650b production... That's what I'm waiting on! I couldn't really careless about 29er stuff...


...any and all carbon rims.

The amount of money I'd be spending to build a set of Nancy rims to King hubs w/ DT Revo spokes is LESS than 1 Enve rim. Civic Si vs Porche, but whatev...still kicks the best aluminum rims up and down the trails!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> The amount of money I'd be spending to build a set of Nancy rims to King hubs w/ DT Revo spokes is LESS than 1 Enve rim.


No way unless you already own some of the components and are not factoring in the cost or bought them used.
A King hubset is easily >$500 and a set of LB rims is $360... no spokes, nipples or labor and you're already more than an ENVE rim.
What am I missing?


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> No way unless you already own some of the components and are not factoring in the cost or bought them used.
> A King hubset is easily >$500 and a set of LB rims is $360... no spokes, nipples or labor and you're already more than an ENVE rim.
> What am I missing?


You forgot to carry the Internet bragging factor lol


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> No way unless you already own some of the components and are not factoring in the cost or bought them used.
> A King hubset is >$500 and a set of LB rims is $360... no spokes, nipples or labor and you're already more than an ENVE rim.
> What am I missing?


What are Enves going for these days, MSRP still about $900 or have they come down?

I picked up a King 12x142 on sale (15% off) at for $315. I didn't need a front, but it woulda been also 15% off, so ~$550 for hubs and spokes...? 
Okay, take a step back...try Hadleys or Pro2s...what ~$400 for the pair? And, I've been seeing DT Comp blacks for as low as ~$65, but typically ~$75 for 72 on sale (maybe these were silver ones?)...
Oh, I build my own...Park TS 2.2, DT Tensio

Edit: my bad, I think I was off by about +$20... MSRP was $379 => 322 w/ 15% off. Shipping was free.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

*quote button*

Sorry for asking this, but why you all use the quote button when typing a reply? Won´t it be better to use quote when reacting to a post 2 or more posts up on the page?
Just an idea.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Rainerhq said:


> Sorry for asking this, but why you all use the quote button when typing a reply? Won´t it be better to use quote when reacting to a post 2 or more posts up on the page?
> Just an idea.


So it's clear who you're addressing.


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

Enve rims alone are over $1k each


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> What are Enves going for these days, MSRP still about $900 or have they come down?
> 
> I picked up a King 12x142 on sale (15% off) at for $315. I didn't need a front, but it woulda been also 15% off, so ~$550 for hubs and spokes...?


Nice discount :thumbsup:
Even with your discount and building them yourself it's more expensive. 'bout what I thought. 


Pau11y said:


> Okay, take a step back...try Hadleys or Pro2s...what ~$400 for the pair? And, I've been seeing DT Comp blacks for as low as ~$65, but typically ~$75 for 72 on sale (maybe these were silver ones?)...
> Oh, I build my own...Park TS 2.2, DT Tensio


Different hubs = different story. You said King.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

argibson said:


> Enve rims alone are over $1k each


No they are not. :crazy:
Can't keep up with all the misinformation...
I'll post up photos of my cracking rims and what LB is going to do about it in a couple of days.
:thumbsup:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Nice discount :thumbsup:
> Even with your discount and building them yourself it's more expensive. 'bout what I thought.
> 
> Different hubs = different story. You said King.


Yeah, by about ~$20? Again, full wheelset vs one rim...anyways, bygones.

I did say Kings, yup. I'll tell ya tho, if I didn't happen on that deal, I'd be on Hadleys. As it stands, I'm gonna pull the SS driveshell from one of my 135mm HD Kings for the 142...thinking the 29er gearing might produce larger torque. Had I gone w/ the Hadley, Ti driveshell native! They're REALLY nice hubs, just not as shiny! But if I truly had an issue, a buffing wheel on a Dremel....


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*subscribed*



meltingfeather said:


> One of my rims started stress cracking at several nipples before a tire was mounted.
> 32h, wide 29er rims.
> Built to 105 kgf.
> Not only are cracks apparent but there are noticeable inward bulges from the spoke tension as well.
> I will be contacting LB and will post up what happens, as well as some pictures once I get my macro lens back.


Wow, sorry to read this. I have been following this thread from the onset, and this is one of the first build failures I can recall. I think there was a guy at the onset of this thread or on another that had the same issue, but i do not remember if they were LB rims. 
Please keep us posted as I was planning on ordering a set. Really curious how LB handles this and what they say.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Ottoreni said:


> Wow, sorry to read this. I have been following this thread from the onset, and this is one of the first build failures I can recall. I think there was a guy at the onset of this thread or on another that had the same issue, but i do not remember if they were LB rims.
> Please keep us posted as I was planning on ordering a set. Really curious how LB handles this and what they say.


I think it was pimpbot, and he had the tension up to 180, or something astronomical...


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Pau11y said:


> I think it was pimpbot, and he had the tension up to 180, or something astronomical...


Yeah, I had that issue. It wasn't _that_ high, but I think it was in the 140 kgf range. It was high enough that I was having trouble turning the brass nipples without rounding off the corners. Yeah, that's when I suddenly realized I was doing something wrong. I was using the wrong chart with my friend's Park Tool Tension Meter.

So far, the rim is still holding up. To be honest, tho. I only rode the bike twice since then. I've been mostly riding my singlespeed... and not even a lot of that. I'm working on packing up my house to sell and move, so I don't get much 'me' time these days.

I need to go back and closely inspect the rim, but IIRC there were two or three spoke holes that had a tiny crack along the length of the rim. It might just be surface crack in the matte coating layer, might be deeper. I don't know yet. I'm just going to keep riding it until it gets worse... or doesn't.

Just for kicks, I might try this wheelset out on my Singlespeed. I might wanna pony up for a SS specific set.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Enve rims were 800 or 850, last I checked. I remember Competitive Cyclist running a 15-20% off site wide coupon with few restrictions, and the Enve rims sold out once the news of the coupon working on them got out. :eekster:

Edit: looks like they went up in price to $899 for the 29 XC and AM clincher rims, direct from Enve's website. Their 29 AM version looks to have a tubeless profile similar to the 29 XC too now. I guess I haven't been keeping up.


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> One of my rims started stress cracking at several nipples before a tire was mounted.
> 32h, wide 29er rims.
> Built to 105 kgf.
> Not only are cracks apparent but there are noticeable inward bulges from the spoke tension as well.
> I will be contacting LB and will post up what happens, as well as some pictures once I get my macro lens back.


Did they looks like this...


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## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

Thinking about these hoops to replace a set of arches. I like the arches but I am getting a lot of flex out of them. Should the carbons be noticeably stiffer? Would they be comparable to going to flows?


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Very noticeable. Way beyond Flows.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Yaaaay! My rims just got shipped


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

meltingfeather said:


> One of my rims started stress cracking at several nipples before a tire was mounted.
> 32h, wide 29er rims.
> Built to 105 kgf.
> Not only are cracks apparent but there are noticeable inward bulges from the spoke tension as well.
> I will be contacting LB and will post up what happens, as well as some pictures once I get my macro lens back.


MF, you know your stuff, and I think we ride the same terrain, so at this point I think I'll have to cancel my order. A shame, since this really looked promising. :bluefrown:

BTW, I noticed the Easton Carbon Havens have eyelets and I'm wondering if that distributes enough stress to prevent what you're seeing?


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## armara (Mar 19, 2011)

Can someone tell me if these Stans rim strips are the same as the Bonty strips?
Should they do the same job?

NoTubes All Mountain 29er Rim Strip

All Mtn. 29er Rim Strip

Thanks,
Mark


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## Joel RW (Nov 26, 2011)

The Bonty strips are pretty unique, I use them and from the information I've gathered they make the fit of the tire better and help prevent tubeless air burping. But these problems have not occurred very often with other strips anyway so I wouldn't fuss about it. As far as I know it only helps people to run under lower air pressures anyway.

My only beef with them is the part of the strip surrounding the valve is very thick and when I get an really bad puncture and put a tube in, not enough tube valve sticks out of the rim for my pump to grasp it and inflate effectively, so I'll either go back to stans or trial and error some different pumps.

Sorry if I misinform.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

armara said:


> Can someone tell me if these Stans rim strips are the same as the Bonty strips?
> Should they do the same job?
> 
> NoTubes All Mountain 29er Rim Strip
> ...


The Bontrager strips are thin, light plastic strips. The NoTubes strips are rubber (like a tube), and weigh more. The Bontrager strips are so "perfect" for these rims that I wouldn't stray if you can get a pair of them.

A sample picture or two of the "plastic" strips from Bontrager....


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

BruceBrown said:


> The Bontrager strips are thin, light plastic strips. The NoTubes strips are rubber (like a tube), and weigh more. The Bontrager strips are so "perfect" for these rims that I wouldn't stray if you can get a pair of them.
> 
> A sample picture or two of the "plastic" strips from Bontrager....


I agree


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

That's 43g for one strip, correct? So what does that work out to compared to yellow tape? About +35g per wheel to use the bonty strip?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Andy13 said:


> That's 43g for one strip, correct? So what does that work out to compared to yellow tape? About +35g per wheel to use the bonty strip?


Sounds about right. I've seen numbers like 9g per wheel for two laps of yellow tape.

Yeah, 43g is about right for one Bontrager rim strip, plus 8g for a stem, and another 60g of sealant, for 111g of weight, about the same as a LunarLite tube and rim strip.

Personally, I think LunarLite innertubes are more reliable, and certainly easier to setup and maintain. Too bad they discontinued them, but there are Maxxis Flyweights. Same thing.

Heh... I'm packing up the house to move, and I'm sorting out the piles of junk in my garage to throw away, recycle, donate to the High School MTB teams, or sell (or keep). I came across a huge stack of LunarLite tubes, that I actually saved, even though they had patches. :lol:


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Sounds about right. I've seen numbers like 9g per wheel for two laps of yellow tape.
> 
> Yeah, 43g is about right for one Bontrager rim strip, plus 8g for a stem, and another 60g of sealant, for 111g of weight, about the same as a LunarLite tube and rim strip.


Valve is in the bowl.

Bontrager claimed weight: 35g (strip) + 8g (valve) = 43g
NoTubes claimed weight: 6.5g (valve) + 8.5g (Stans wide yellow tape for a 29"er run) = 15g

Difference per wheel = 28g

NoTubes recommends 2 ounces of _boo-hoo-gu_ in each tire which is 56.69g per wheel.

That means add on weight for one's wheel build to be tubeless is....

99.69g per wheel for Bonty Strips/Valve/_boo-hoo-gu_
71.69g per wheel for the NoTubes Yellow Tape/Valve/_boo-hoo-gu_

Not really a deal breaker either way (Bonty Strips or NoTubes tape) - especially considering my AM wheels with the carbon rims are 310g less than what they replaced (Industry Nine Enduro wheels). Those wheels, of course, also required tape/valve/_boo-hoo-gu_ on top of the wheel weight.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Here are the photos.
Once again... built to 105 kgf.
I noticed this before the tire was mounted. I subsequently mounted a tire and rode the wheel once. It didn't get any worse.
Three nipples, all adjacent, on one wheel show this.
E-mail sent to LB.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Here are the photos.


Nice photos - most telling is the first one - clearly there is deformation, which makes me concerned considering the material. I'll be inspecting my rims today.


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

*Something strange happened - in a good way*

For some reason the front brake pads on my hydros had "closed" in my car on the way to the trails last week. Guessing they self-adjusted due to the levers being pumped when I was hitting bumps on the way there. Anyway, I was able to get my front wheel to fit in there, and I was able to ride. I was riding pretty low pressure on these carbon wheels, and I wrecked about 50 yards from the trailhead, because I _*think*_ the tire burped. I couldn't find any evidence of it after a quick look, so I rode on.

A couple of days later, I decided to go for a ride and I also decided to bump up the pressure in all the tires on all my bikes. I also decided to pry my hydros apart, as the wheel was still dragging a little bit. As I looked at it I noticed my wheel was out of true. I decided to air it up, THEN take it to have it trued. I shot a bit of air into the wheel and heard the familiar POP! I don't know how I long I'd been riding it without having that tire properly seated, and I don't know if it happened during the wreck. With visions of the cracked wheels in this thread racing through my head, I decided to make sure the POP wasn't a cracked rim. It wasn't. As I checked the wheel over I realized that my wheel was also back into true! That's the strange thing, and I've never heard of that happening. Has anyone here experienced that with any wheels before?

Maybe I was just lucky, but this is just another reason I love these Chinese carbon wheels as much as I do. I plan to get another set for my steel 29er, and I might get a 3rd set for my alu 29er - if I keep it.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Not rim, but maybe tire?*

Not a tire/wheel expert by any stretch, but I would venture to guess that the rim was not out of true. Instead, since the tire was not properly seated in the rim bead, the tire was giving the illusion of the wheel being out of true. Once it seated, the tire and wheel both appear tru.

Just my guess.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Motivated said:


> Nice photos - most telling is the first one - clearly there is deformation, which makes me concerned considering the material. I'll be inspecting my rims today.


The first one is what causes me the most concern as well.


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## michael573114 (May 5, 2006)

Joel RW said:


> My only beef with them is the part of the strip surrounding the valve is very thick and when I get an really bad puncture and put a tube in, not enough tube valve sticks out of the rim for my pump to grasp it and inflate effectively, so I'll either go back to stans or trial and error some different pumps.


You could find tubes with longer valves too, that's what I did when I used these on my old bike.


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

Ottoreni said:


> Not a tire/wheel expert by any stretch, but I would venture to guess that the rim was not out of true. Instead, since the tire was not properly seated in the rim bead, the tire was giving the illusion of the wheel being out of true. Once it seated, the tire and wheel both appear tru.
> 
> Just my guess.


This.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

*Thought that too*

...but I was so shocked and disappointed that it was out of true (I've only over gotten 1 set of wheels far out of true) that I spun it and looked at it to make sure I was seeing what I was seeing. I even put it back on the bike and watched it go around.

I've also had the issue where I could NEVER get the tires to seat properly: it was on the Bonty set that I replaced with these carbons, so that thought went through my head as well as the panic. That explanation DOES sound much more plausible though.

Is anyone running these on a Ti frame?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> The first one is what causes me the most concern as well.


I agree. The white "cracks" appear to be in the finish coat, not in the laminate.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

expostdelirium said:


> That explanation DOES sound much more plausible though.


It actually sounds plausible while the other suggestion sounds sorta silly.



expostdelirium said:


> Is anyone running these on a Ti frame?


I am... though I am waiting to find out what the deal is with me rim.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> I agree. The white "cracks" appear to be in the finish coat, not in the laminate.


The distortion in pic 1 is what caused the cracks. I think any cracking due to a design load is suspicious. If you find something that you don't know the source of and determine it is superficial, that is one thing. To look at cracks associated with a very obvious structural problem and dismiss them would be negligent.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> The distortion in pic 1 is what caused the cracks. I think any cracking due to a design load is suspicious. If you find something that you don't know the source of and determine it is superficial, that is one thing. To look at cracks associated with a very obvious structural problem and dismiss them would be negligent.


That's not at all what I meant. There is obviously a defect purely based on the large deformation. What I was pointing out is the fact that the visible fracture lines aren't in the laminate. The structure around the hole can delaminate causing the large deformation and not necessarily fracture the lamina.

I've got 75 hrs on my lb rims and I still do a thorough visual inspection after every ride.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

@meltingfeather: Nancy should have no problem replacing that rim.

She replaced one of my road 50mm clinchers due to bulging on the side at the nipple hole which lead to a crack. I took pictures of it and sent it to her and she promptly replied back that I can ship it back to their USA warehouse and that they'll build up another rim with more material around the nipple.

In addition, I had the MS150 to ride in the coming weekend so she allowed me to use epoxy on the crack so that I would still be able to ride.

Keep in mind that although you're sending back the defective rim to their USA facility, the replacement will still be coming from overseas.


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Here are the photos.
> Once again... built to 105 kgf.
> I noticed this before the tire was mounted. I subsequently mounted a tire and rode the wheel once. It didn't get any worse.
> Three nipples, all adjacent, on one wheel show this.
> E-mail sent to LB.


I am a research and development engineer in the aerospace composites biz. To me this looks like a delamination occurred during the machining process. The fact that 3 nipples all in a line are showing this leads me to believe that the bit was dull and the operator was trying to finish up this rim before changing the bit. The delams wouldn't really be visible to the eye prior to building, but probably would be with a magnifying glass. Once the wheel was laced and the tension started to build the delams started to propagate and this is what you get.

I'd say they are done, wouldn't continue to ride them personally. I just ordered a set of these, and spoke in great detail with Nancy and Brian at LB. LB uses a 3k fabric ply on the inside to minimize delams during machining. Based on my experience on the parts I build, I went with an extra 3K fabric ply inside and outside on my wheels and targeted 450 grams. The 3k fabric keeps these delams from spreading much better than a uni, and the 3k adds a little better impact properties to the laminate. Other folks like Easton and Enve are using heavily toughened resins, as well as using different techniques for forming the spoke holes (enve molds theirs, doesn't machine them for example, Reynolds may do this as well). LB couldn't tell me/didn't know if they were using a toughened resin, but they are using a wet lay-up technique rather than aerospace grade preimpregnated (prepreg) material so I doubt it is anywhere as tough as the Easton/Reynolds/Enve stuff, as it's harder to do well in wet lay-up and the resin is more expensive. I beieve one way LB is keeping cost down is by buying dry fiber and fabric, mixing their own resin from components, and impregnating the material just prior to lay-up. Labor over there is cheaper than buying prepreg.

I'd recommend folks order them with the 3k finish to minimize the risk of this happening. It won't eliminate it, but the woven nature of the fabric helps keep the delams from propagating as much. Obviously I'll be looking at each hole on my rims once I get them, and if needed I'm use some adhesive from work to seal the machined edges if I see significant delams prior to lacing them up.

Good luck!

BY


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> Obviously I'll be looking at each hole on my rims once I get them, and if needed I'm use some adhesive from work to seal the machined edges if I see significant delams prior to lacing them up.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> BY


BY,
I ordered mine w/ 3K on the same page about it being a sacrificial impact layer, so yay me 

But my question: can the delam be visible under a simple magnifying glass? I was thinking of cutting some nipple washers to slide into the slightly larger holes from the rim bed side...hoping to distribute the nipple load a bit. Any feedback on this? I know for a fact that DT uses a metallic washer-like nipple bed in their XRC330 rim...


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> BY,
> I ordered mine w/ 3K on the same page about it being a sacrificial impact layer, so yay me
> 
> But my question: can the delam be visible under a simple magnifying glass? I was thinking of cutting some nipple washers to slide into the slightly larger holes from the rim bed side...hoping to distribute the nipple load a bit. Any feedback on this? I know for a fact that DT uses a metallic washer-like nipple bed in their XRC330 rim...


Well played sir :thumbsup:

I have one of these laying around as I use it for work. Much better than a magnifying glass.
Amazon.com: Dino-Lite Digital Microscope (USB2.0) 10x~200x Magnification: Camera & Photo

I don't now that I'd go through the effort to make and install nipple washers (haha, Nipple washers...). Adds weight and hassles and may not fix the issue. These rims are cheap (relative to other carbon offerings), just take a good look at each machined surface prior to lacing the wheels, if you see excessive delams send them back, if they are minor, seal the machined edges with a thin coat of epoxy, let it cure over night and lightly sand smooth with fine grit paper, if you get black dust you are sanding too much 

Good all around epoxy for this:
Hysol® EA 9394

BY

P.S. I'm really hoping mine show up in good shape. Don't want to seal and sand 2 edges per hole on two 32 hole rims...


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> Well played sir :thumbsup:
> 
> I have one of these laying around as I use it for work. Much better than a magnifying glass.
> Amazon.com: Dino-Lite Digital Microscope (USB2.0) 10x~200x Magnification: Camera & Photo
> ...


Oh yeah! That USB microscope looks SWEET! That, plus a laptop for frame inspection, amongst other things...thanks for the clue! :thumbsup:
The key word on your statement about how expensive these rims are is "relative". I'm on "cheap" SOB so I'll eat a bit of weight and time to dial in a set of rims. What I'll be shooting for is more friction (the DT's embedded washer has a textured surface)...so I'm thinking a bit of carbon paste... Dunno if you (or anyone else for that matter) care, but I'll update here when I start building. A pair of needle nosed pliers and 15 seconds per washer on the Dremel, a few 10s of grams isn't a deal breaker if I can get better longevity out of these rims.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Here is an idea from the RC world for you guys. One of the first things you do on high end rc car chassis , which are carbon fiber, is sand the edge and run a thin layer of super glue around it to seal the edge and prevent splits and cracking on crash impacts.

I wonder since these are drilled spoke holes if sealing the edge of each hole with superglue would help prevent what you are seeing?


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

Pau11y, my point is that if there is a delamination, whether the nipple washer or the spoke nipple is pulling on the hole is moot. The rim is still going to exploderize. If there are no delams then yeah, I suppose a nipple washer may distribute some load across a larger surface. Give it a shot and post pics. If you really want to be able to inspect parts get one of these and learn how to use it 
Ultrasonic Flaw Detector, Portable flaw detector

TwoTone, superglue is pretty good, the low viscosity allows it to wick into the exposed edge well. But it's brittle when cured, more so than epoxy. Either will help if you find a minor delam, but the epoxy should hold up a little better in the long run.

BY


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> I am a research and development engineer in the aerospace composites biz. To me this looks like a delamination occurred during the machining process. The fact that 3 nipples all in a line are showing this leads me to believe that the bit was dull and the operator was trying to finish up this rim before changing the bit. The delams wouldn't really be visible to the eye prior to building, but probably would be with a magnifying glass. Once the wheel was laced and the tension started to build the delams started to propagate and this is what you get.
> 
> I'd say they are done, wouldn't continue to ride them personally. I just ordered a set of these, and spoke in great detail with Nancy and Brian at LB. LB uses a 3k fabric ply on the inside to minimize delams during machining. Based on my experience on the parts I build, I went with an extra 3K fabric ply inside and outside on my wheels and targeted 450 grams. The 3k fabric keeps these delams from spreading much better than a uni, and the 3k adds a little better impact properties to the laminate. Other folks like Easton and Enve are using heavily toughened resins, as well as using different techniques for forming the spoke holes (enve molds theirs, doesn't machine them for example, Reynolds may do this as well). LB couldn't tell me/didn't know if they were using a toughened resin, but they are using a wet lay-up technique rather than aerospace grade preimpregnated (prepreg) material so I doubt it is anywhere as tough as the Easton/Reynolds/Enve stuff, as it's harder to do well in wet lay-up and the resin is more expensive. I beieve one way LB is keeping cost down is by buying dry fiber and fabric, mixing their own resin from components, and impregnating the material just prior to lay-up. Labor over there is cheaper than buying prepreg.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input... always good to have from someone who knows what they are talking about.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

anthonylokrn said:


> @meltingfeather: Nancy should have no problem replacing that rim.


You are correct... they are going to replace the rim.
The response was quick and courteous.

It is costing me:
trail time
an extra disassembly & wheelbuild
$43 shipping

Not stoked. Not much I can do.
I won't be repurchasing or recommending these rims. Even though my experience is probably the minority, it's not worth it to me. Unlike some of you, I wasn't blown away by the ride. They ride fine, but I don't pick up on all the supreme ride characteristics that are being described by others. Telepathic? :skep:
Like many products in this class, it seems, the customer is the Q/C.
Hopefully the replacement works out.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

meltingfeather said:


> It is costing me:
> trail time
> an extra disassembly & wheelbuild
> $43 shipping


Yep, that's why I canceled my order. Until they perfect their process we're just "test pilots" for their company.

Boris is right on the mark with his analysis. I'm a polymer engineer (not in the composite field as Boris) and your photo's did it for me. 
I know that ENVE molds their holes which is a more sophisticated and difficult process. I'll likely go that route in the future, but I like your pioneer spirit!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> Pau11y, my point is that if there is a delamination, whether the nipple washer or the spoke nipple is pulling on the hole is moot. The rim is still going to exploderize. If there are no delams then yeah, I suppose a nipple washer may distribute some load across a larger surface. Give it a shot and post pics. If you really want to be able to inspect parts get one of these and learn how to use it
> Ultrasonic Flaw Detector, Portable flaw detector
> 
> TwoTone, superglue is pretty good, the low viscosity allows it to wick into the exposed edge well. But it's brittle when cured, more so than epoxy. Either will help if you find a minor delam, but the epoxy should hold up a little better in the long run.
> ...


The super glue may be more brittle, but considering today's hobby grade RC cars are doing well over 30mph when they hit the wall and the chassis' are fine, I think for the load a spoke nipple is putting on that hole it will be more than enough.


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

Simplemind said:


> Yep, that's why I canceled my order. Until they perfect their process we're just "test pilots" for their company.
> 
> Boris is right on the mark with his analysis. I'm a polymer engineer (not in the composite field as Boris) and your photo's did it for me.
> I know that ENVE molds their holes which is a more sophisticated and difficult process. I'll likely go that route in the future, but I like your pioneer spirit!


I'm hoping these rims meet what I call the "80/20" rule. If they provide 80%+ of the performance of an Enve/Easton/Reynolds carbon rim at 20% of the cost, these could be a great value. Especially if that 80% is superior performance when compared to a similar weight/width AL rim.

I'm not willing to write these off yet, but then again I don't have mine in hand, built and ridden yet either. While some of the issues shown here are troubling, there are a lot of successes as well, and some of the issues can be mitigated by the rim options ordered and prior to building the wheels. One guy here locally (JMH) has been riding his and seems stoked on them, he's no hack and doesn't smash a ton of parts, but he rides a lot and has put some abuse on them with good results. Looking like it's a luck of the draw thing on these LB rims. Hoping I get lucky...

BY


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> LB couldn't tell me/didn't know if they were using a toughened resin, but they are using a wet lay-up technique rather than aerospace grade preimpregnated (prepreg) material so I doubt it is anywhere as tough as the Easton/Reynolds/Enve stuff, as it's harder to do well in wet lay-up and the resin is more expensive.


Wow, I'm surprised they aren't using pre-preg. Did they tell you this specifically or did you put two and two together from talking with them? Lets hope LB understands the failure mode and changes their processes accordingly.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> Wow, I'm surprised they aren't using pre-preg. Did they tell you this specifically or did you put two and two together from talking with them? Lets hope LB understands the failure mode and changes their processes accordingly.


You're surprised the $150 china-direct supplier is not using the same aerospace grade material as the $850 top tier manufacturers? :crazy:

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Would it surprise you if the people that make them are paid a fraction of what the ENVE employees earn?


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> You are correct... they are going to replace the rim.
> The response was quick and courteous.
> 
> It is costing me:
> ...


Are you shipping two rims or just one back? I remember I only paid ~$20 for shipping via Fedex to their USA facility that was up Northeast for one rim. Though I did modify the box a little to make it as small as possible to bypass the oversize fee.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

anthonylokrn said:


> Are you shipping two rims or just one back? I remember I only paid ~$20 for shipping via Fedex to their USA facility that was up Northeast for one rim. Though I did modify the box a little to make it as small as possible to bypass the oversize fee.


The $43 is for them to ship me one replacement.
We have not yet discussed returning the defective rim.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

meltingfeather, you say you were not impressed by the ride of your now defective wheels. What do you mean exactly, are they not rigid enough, do they ride harshly? Which spokes and lacing pattern did you use?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

giantdale said:


> meltingfeather, you say you were not impressed by the ride of your now defective wheels.


I said i wasn't blown away and it's only one wheel (rear) that is defective.


giantdale said:


> What do you mean exactly, are they not rigid enough, do they ride harshly?


to read descriptions of carbon wheels on this website is to meander the wildest tales of hyperbole and "you have to ride them to understand" smugness. aside from not really being partial to squishy, ambiguous descriptions of riding experiences (_e.g._, lively, whippy, noodly, plush, _etc._), the carbon wheels I have been on (ENVE XC and now Nancy wides) just don't blow my mind in the way I interpret many of the descriptions I have read here.
don't really know how else to put it. they do not feel remarkably different from the 355s they replaced. seriously. they are probably stronger and more fatigue resistant, but those aren't things you feel. the one ride i did on my Nancy Wides is a very familiar trail that I ride two laps on almost weekly, year-round. I changed tires to a previously untried tread, so maybe that exactly balanced out the unbelievably impressive effects of carbon rims. maybe not...


giantdale said:


> Which spokes and lacing pattern did you use?


My wheels are built with 2.0/1.5 Revos at 105 kgf.
3x Rear, the front is 3x on the NDS and 1x heads out on the DS. Hope Pro 2, SS version (dishless) rear.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

meltingfeather, thanks for responding.
My experience with carbon rims on the other hand is very positive. Their strength allows for using thinner spokes which in turn make for a more forgiving, damped ride. I built a wheelset for urban environment and those qualities were my goal that was reached in a measure greater than expected.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

giantdale said:


> meltingfeather, thanks for responding.
> My experience with carbon rims on the other hand is very positive. Their strength allows for using thinner spokes which in turn make for a more forgiving, damped ride. I built a wheelset for urban environment and those qualities were my goal that was reached in a measure greater than expected.


Ah... I use the same spokes regardless of rim material (2.0/1.5 Revos, primarily), so a carbon rim didn't "allow" me to use a thinner spoke, since the aluminum 355s I was on were built with the same spokes.
I'm curious how you distinguish perceived damping from spoke diameter from the damping properties of carbon rims and the different feel in general of wheels of different construction.
Please don't be offended, but I will offer the following quote from John Swanson, which pretty well summarizes what I think of "vertically compliant" wheel, though I don't venture to tell people what they can and cannot feel:
_"There's almost -no- vertical compliance in your wheel and people who insist that they can feel the vertical stiffness or "harshness" of a wheel are mistaken. The radial stiffness of a bicycle wheel is ~ 3-4000 N/mm. This equals a deflection of 0.1 mm under a 40 kg load. Sorry princess, but that gets obscured by the amount of deflection in the tires, fork, saddle, handlebar tape, frame, and even your gloves."_​link


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

BruceBrown said:


> Valve is in the bowl.
> 
> Bontrager claimed weight: 35g (strip) + 8g (valve) = 43g
> NoTubes claimed weight: 6.5g (valve) + 8.5g (Stans wide yellow tape for a 29"er run) = 15g
> ...


Quick point - valve isn't in the bowl - the rim strip was just heavier than the claimed 35g. The weight of the bowl was taken account of as well (i.e. scales 0'ed in)


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Jubas said:


> Quick point - valve isn't in the bowl - the rim strip was just heavier than the claimed 35g.


I believe I posted the weights of my Bonty strips in this very thread and they were 43-44g without the valves, IIRC, FWIW (lol ftw).


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> You're surprised the $150 china-direct supplier is not using the same aerospace grade material as the $850 top tier manufacturers? :crazy:
> 
> That doesn't surprise me in the least. Would it surprise you if the people that make them are paid a fraction of what the ENVE employees earn?


Who said anything about Enve?? Again, you took a simple comment and stretched it to the extreme. Are you surprised there are widely varying flavors of carbon prepreg, all used within the "aerospace" industry?



meltingfeather said:


> I'm curious how you distinguish perceived damping from spoke diameter from the damping properties of carbon rims and the different feel in general of wheels of different construction.
> Please don't be offended, but I will offer the following quote from John Swanson, which pretty well summarizes what I think of "vertically compliant" wheel, though I don't venture to tell people what they can and cannot feel:_"There's almost -no- vertical compliance in your wheel and people who insist that they can feel the vertical stiffness or "harshness" of a wheel are mistaken. The radial stiffness of a bicycle wheel is ~ 3-4000 N/mm. This equals a deflection of 0.1 mm under a 40 kg load. Sorry princess, but that gets obscured by the amount of deflection in the tires, fork, saddle, handlebar tape, frame, and even your gloves."_​link


This is my vote for the best comment posted in the entire 70pages of this thread. Right on:thumbsup: Couldn't agree more.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> I'm hoping these rims meet what I call the "80/20" rule. If they provide 80%+ of the performance of an Enve/Easton/Reynolds carbon rim at 20% of the cost, these could be a great value. Especially if that 80% is superior performance when compared to a similar weight/width AL rim.


:thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ktm520 said:


> Who said anything about Enve?? Again, you took a simple comment and stretched it to the extreme. Are you surprised there are widely varying flavors of carbon prepreg, all used within the "aerospace" industry?


The guy you quoted (Bortis Yelltzen) mentioned them by name, along with Reynolds & Easton. I used the ENVE example because neither Reynolds nor Easton offer rims for comparative costs.
Read the quote in your own post. 


ktm520 said:


> This is my vote for the best comment posted in the entire 70pages of this thread. Right on:thumbsup: Couldn't agree more.


lol, thanks.
I was expecting a bunch of hate for that post. :arf:


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> It actually sounds plausible while the other suggestion sounds sorta silly.


Hell, it sounds completely silly, but thanks for taking it easy on me. I expected to get flamed for such silliness. I don't have a vested interest in what the actual cause was: I just wanted to know if anyone else had experienced it.

I will PM you about the Ti frame.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Who cares how a wheel "rides" - I hope that's not why people buy carbon rims for MTB use. I built wheels from these rims to have equal weight and much higher stiffness vs. AmClassic Race wheels. I'm happy with the result and convinced that for 1420g, there is no stiffer wheelset.

Re prepreg - somehow it seems that within this thread all prepreg has been associated as "aerospace" grade. That's rubbish. There are very very low cost prepreg materials available and there are very expensive dry carbon sheets and epoxy systems available. I don't think there is an inherent cost advantage of wet layup and was surprised to learn these rims are not made with prepreg.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

the only thing I know about prepreg was over 20 years ago, three wonderful kids later and I'm digging the three LB wheels sets I have.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

bt said:


> the only thing I know about prepreg was over 20 years ago, three wonderful kids later and I'm digging the three LB wheels sets I have.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I vote for this as the best post on this thread.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Motivated said:


> Who cares how a wheel "rides" - I hope that's not why people buy carbon rims for MTB use. I built wheels from these rims to have equal weight and much higher stiffness vs. AmClassic Race wheels. I'm happy with the result and convinced that for 1420g, there is no stiffer wheelset.


Why do you care if a wheel is stiff if you don't care how it rides? And how did you determine that it is stiff? :crazy:

How my bike rides is the only thing I care about. To describe my riding experience, I use the words "like" and "don't like." Beyond that it's like tying to tell you the feeling I get when I look at my wife... ridiculously inadequate, and pointless in the first place.
:thumbsup:


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

MF, sorry to hear about the failure. So far I have been pleased with my wheel set and only broken a spoke.
Are you going to try another brand of carbon wheels or go back to aluminum ?


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

Motivated said:


> Re prepreg - somehow it seems that within this thread all prepreg has been associated as "aerospace" grade. That's rubbish. There are very very low cost prepreg materials available and there are very expensive dry carbon sheets and epoxy systems available. I don't think there is an inherent cost advantage of wet layup and was surprised to learn these rims are not made with prepreg.


I don't know about "cheap" prepreg. You can get standard modulus fiber (AS4) uni-tape prepreg with a standard epoxy resin for $40-$50 per lb. AS4 fabric (3k, plain weave, etc..) is over $50/lb. The process of weaving the fabric adds a fairly significant cost. Each 350 gram rim uses probably 450+ grams of prepreg to build due to scrap in the process (25% scrap is pretty typical for hand lay-up). This represents about 30% of the cost of the LB rims before anything is done with the prepreg. It then has to be pattern cut (machine or by hand), kit, laid-up, cured, demolded/deburred, machined, inspected, painted/clear coat all for another $60-80 leaving about $20 profit per rim. It's feasible, but doubtful. Not to mention the issues with having large freezer space to store prepreg and the limited shelf life and out-time associated with prepreg.

To get prepreg much below $40/lb is basically buying questionable fiber and non-toughened resin, expired or out of shelf life material. Not sure I'd want a product made with those prepregs over a "wet" lay-up product with what could be better materials. For that same $40-50/lb you can buy better fiber and resin separately. You may be able to buy an intermediate modulus fiber (IM7, T700, etc...) and a toughened resin for this price if doing wet lay-up.

Oh the joys of carbon manufacturing. For the record in my biz we use both wet and prepreg in very high end products. So one is not necessarily better than the other. There are pros and cons. Use the right tool for the job.

BY


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

meltingfeather, that John Swanson's argument you cited is invalid. It isn't vertical stiffness alone responsible for the ride quality of a wheel. This is a complex matter I don't know enough about and I hate half-baked science ...
I used terms forgiving and damped ride, could also use "I like", but wanted to be a bit more "plastic". That is my experience and consisent with several different wheelsets and that is what I reported 
I got a feeling that you somehow don't "want" to like carbon rims. What was your motive to use them? One can make a set with certain qualities by choosing the components carefully, as long as one knows what he's after...


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> ..... And how did you determine that it is stiff? :crazy:
> 
> ..... To describe my riding experience, I use the words "like" and "don't like.".......


So did you "not like" the carbon rims???
.
I think maybe the "stiffness" is side-to-side also. I kinda felt my rear drift a little today, first ride with the carbons, wonder if the stiff wheels transferred the pressure to make my frame/rear tri flex instead?
.
.


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> You are correct... they are going to replace the rim.
> The response was quick and courteous.
> 
> It is costing me:
> ...


Just to get that right. They want you to pay for the shipping of the replacement rim? ...and you are OK with that?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I hear the insane stiffness of TAG FRX wheels really showed how much compliance there is in a conventional wheel. The guy meltingfeather quoted is comparing the compliance in road wheels, normally with deep rims, to the compliance of [pneumatic] tires.

One of the authorities on bike wheels mentions radial stiffness in his book on page 37/38. Lots of other good info in there.

http://icelord.net/bike/thebicyclewheel.pdf

My stance on the subject is that human body makes for a poor scientific instrument, as it's under the influence of many physical and psychological conditions that may alter the impressions of what you feel from your senses. Most tests are not finely controlled to minimize variables. The riders could just be in a good mood, maybe experiencing an endorphin rush that made a ride more positively memorable, and a simplistic thought process happened to greatly credit the rims this one time, grouping up the other things that could be credited as minor part of the equation. This is why things are tested in labs. The compliance people feel comes from so many different factors that it's just ignorant to credit it to wheels. Did you run the exact same tire, tube, and air pressure, (and shoes, socks, frame, shock, and portion of testing ground) from what you're comparing it too? There's materials to consider too, as you may expect more responsiveness and feedback from stiffness, but materials can reduce the feedback through its damping characteristics, and the absence of that could be confused as compliance. There's a lot of things between the wheel and your nerves and the wheel and the ground which could be credited to the feeling compliance.

Here's your vertical compliance:


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Yes, agree about the body as a scientific instrument. And yes, just yesterday I tried the otherwise same setup, the only difference being rear wheel and inner tube. With the carbon wheel I had to use a much thicker inner tube (100 vs 50g) because I messed up the supersonic and the pressure was higher by 1.5bar. And still the ride was incomparably better. Felt like "more rubber". Didn't make me wince crossing each irregularity on the road. Reporting it as I felt during the ride. And I prefer low rims.


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

OK, I have been lurking on this site for a year and I guess I am ready to pull the trigger. I was hoping I could get help with a couple questions first. From one of the recent posts it looks like 3K may be stronger. Does the clear coat add any strength? Also, I seem to remember and early poster stating he was able to request LB hold shipping until they had two rims at a specific weight (say 400 grams each), has anyone tried this? thanks.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I've been lurking just because I've been expecting failures and to maybe help validate my investment in Edge/Enve rims.

I mainly replied since the thread was getting kind of retarded. I get a similar feeling with my carbon rimmed wheels, with how they feel accurate and solid, but don't have the feedback that my i9 Enduro 29 wheelset has, which lends to the feeling that my i9 feels stiffer and edge/cks feel more compliant. It's more about the lack of feedback than feeling a difference in compliance, or anything else. I don't feel the bumps and vibrations and shocks from bigger obstacles feel duller--sounds like compliance, but if I switch out my Five.Ten Karvers to some Vans skate shoes with the super thin soles, would you say that my thicker soled shoes were more compliant if the Vans made my feet numb from all the shocks going through it? More like this silly debate is more about semantics--your choice in words to describe it just happens to be misleading and others are just trying to clarify it so people don't get the wrong idea about things.

The clear coat is mainly to protect the exterior from scratches and to give it a nice glossy look that you can restore using wax. It's not gonna help when you do something that leads to the death of the rim, other than offer a psychological effect that leads you to make decisions that better help preserve the wheel, as you don't want to ruin your shiny and "expensive" rims (relative to the cost of alloy) riding something that puts them at risk. The 3k layer's main benefit is that it can better stop the spreading of cracks, hence why some call it a structural layer. Minimizing the risk of cracking in the first place is better, which is why some call it a cosmetic layer. When things are made with a simpler/cheaper manufacturing processes, like drilling instead of molding in spoke holes, it is a good idea to have the 3k layer to increase the tolerance of mfg defects with only a modest weight gain (and some may prefer the look).


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

Thanks Varaxis. I have a set of Enve's and thought I would just switch them back and forth between my two bikes, but that is a pain so I am hoping these will be a nice second pair.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Why do you care if a wheel is stiff if you don't care how it rides? And how did you determine that it is stiff? :crazy:
> 
> How my bike rides is the only thing I care about. To describe my riding experience, I use the words "like" and "don't like." Beyond that it's like tying to tell you the feeling I get when I look at my wife... ridiculously inadequate, and pointless in the first place.
> :thumbsup:


To me how a wheel "rides" means ascribing some (vertical) damping qualities, which I doubt could be perceived between aluminum vs carbon fiber rims much less between LB carbon and ENVE carbon. But I've never ridden ENVE wheels. I personally have not noticed a smoothing or damping effect of the LB rims vs my Arches. On the other hand it's easy to tell these LB wheels are stiffer than my Arches when traversing ruts or during slow speed trials moves - I can perceive there is less lateral deflection and less steering adjustment / body english necessary to compensate. I agree the body is not a reliable instrument.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*3K glossy 32h wider & heavier 29er Nancy rims*

Just got mine. 4 days, door to door. Not 4 _working_ days, but 4 days total...left the factory on Sat, 1st delivery attempt was yesterday! Took some shots for this thread...nothing you guys haven't seen before, I'm sure. Seems these are molded in 1/4 arc clam shells. I was hoping the 3K cosmetic/sacrificial layer was going to be put on as one piece after the 1/4 arcs were bonded to full hoop, to help hold everything together. But I see a seam down the planar center of the rim. Well, let's see how it holds up...


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

I got a clarification email from Nancy. Some descriptions were lost in translation between the LB technical folks and her in answering my questions. They are using prepreg, not sure which resin system and fiber, but supposedly LB makes/made all of specialized carbon rims using the same materials and process. 

Obviously they are reading and following this thread, as I didn't ask Nancy for more info, she sent me an email I'm assuming after reading this thread. Which is good, as they see the issues and the successes and seem focused on making sure we are all happy. Pretty cool we can order custom factory direct carbon rims. Shows how much profit some of these other companies may be making on their rims/wheels. 

I'm anxious to get mine and see if they provide 80%+ the performance and durability of Enve/Easton/Reynolds at 20% the cost. 

BY


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> Pretty cool we can order custom factory direct carbon rims. Shows how much profit some of these other companies may be making on their rims/wheels.


The brands, q/c and warranty service are worth something. Obviously they are in it to make money, but Specialized warranty service is extraordinary. I guarantee you I wouldn't be paying $43 to replace a defective rim. I probably wouldn't have gotten the defective rim in the first place and Spesh would have sewed up a new wheel no questions asked or just handed me a new one. They take back tires even if they are not defective but you don't like them.



Bortis Yelltzen said:


> I'm anxious to get mine and see if they provide 80%+ the performance and durability of Enve/Easton/Reynolds at 20% the cost.
> 
> BY


How are you going to determine the 80% part and how do you figure the cost of the Easton and Reynolds rims, since they are not available for sale? Do you discount the Easton rims based on the fact that they come attached to a sh!tty hub? :arf:


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## manamana (Jul 30, 2006)

Just in case anyone is interested, I received my LB wide complete wheels yesterday and I'm very happy with how they look (haven't had a chance to get out for a ride yet). They were built up with the Novatec D811/D812 hubs and came in at 725g for the front wheel and 885g for the rear (excluding the rim strips/valves). I installed the Bonty rim strips, and they are a perfect fit. My Ikon and Ignitor tires aired up easily with a compressor, and were still pumped up this morning (installed them last night). I also got a couple of seatposts, both look great.


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> The brands, q/c and warranty service are worth something. Obviously they are in it to make money, but Specialized warranty service is extraordinary. I guarantee you I wouldn't be paying $43 to replace a defective rim. I probably wouldn't have gotten the defective rim in the first place and Spesh would have sewed up a new wheel no questions asked or just handed me a new one. They take back tires even if they are not defective but you don't like them.


You also would have paid $1700 for those Roval carbon wheels instead of what you paid for these :skep:
:idea: I'm guessing even with the $43 and labor to relace the wheel you are still way under $1700. I hope you appreciate the fact you bought a bargain/cheaper alternative to other options out there, so expecting the same service and quality of the much more expensive alternative seems a bit misguided to me. In the words of the late George Carlin "the guy that coined the phrase 'buyer beware' was most likely bleeding out the a$$".

When shopping for bargains you gotta accept that they can't all be winners.



meltingfeather said:


> How are you going to determine the 80% part and how do you figure the cost of the Easton and Reynolds rims, since they are not available for sale? Do you discount the Easton rims based on the fact that they come attached to a sh!tty hub? :arf:


Yeah, tough to say. But living in SLC and with Reynolds here I know at least one person that bought rims only from Reynolds in the $600-700 per rim range. Not sure if it was Bro-deal but there are several folks around here with Reynolds rims on non-Reynolds hubs.

As for the 80%, weight is one factor, durability is another, if I get 1-2 seasons out a these that will be better than I get on AL rims. Plus I have riding friends with Reynolds, Easton and Enve wheels, so I'll be watching how mine hold up compared to theirs. If they handle my 220 lbs on my 6" bike for 2 seasons with trips to Moab and the other stuff I ride I'll say they have easily met MY 80% target. I'm hoping it works out, I like a good bargain, but I also won't be b1tching if the cheap carbon wheels I bought don't work as well as the much more expensive alternative. I'll accept the lesson that I will have learned and move on. Buyer beware, just hope I'm not bleeding out the a$$ due to a carbon rim explosion on Burro pass. 

As for whether it's worth it to you? That's for you to decide. 
BY


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> I hope you appreciate the fact you bought a bargain/cheaper alternative to other options out there, so expecting the same service and quality of the much more expensive alternative seems a bit misguided to me.
> [...]
> When shopping for bargains you gotta accept that they can't all be winners.


LOL gimme a break.
I didn't expect the same level of service. Are you serious? :crazy:
I said the brand, and customer service are worth something... I didn't say what. My purchase speaks to what I think is a better "deal."
You seemed to suggest that it's cool we can get rims direct and alluded to the wild profits the larger companies must make, as if the differential in price is pure profit.
This from the "expert" who declared the process they are using and offered analysis of it based on a flawed assumption. Funny...
I obviously appreciate the bargain since I opted to send them over $400, don't you think?
Since you're so good with numbers, what's the cost benefit on a rim that is useless?
You yourself said I shouldn't ride it, so how much should I have paid for that rim? Better yet, what will you buy it from me for?



Bortis Yelltzen said:


> As for the 80%, weight is one factor, durability is another, if I get 1-2 seasons out a these that will be better than I get on AL rims. Plus I have riding friends with Reynolds, Easton and Enve wheels, so I'll be watching how mine hold up compared to theirs. If they handle my 220 lbs on my 6" bike for 2 seasons with trips to Moab and the other stuff I ride I'll say they have easily met MY 80% target. I'm hoping it works out, I like a good bargain, but I also won't be *****ing if the cheap carbon wheels I bought don't work as well as the much more expensive alternative. I'll accept the lesson that I will have learned and move on. Buyer beware, just hope I'm not bleeding out the a$$ due to a carbon rim explosion on Burro pass.
> 
> As for whether it's worth it to you? That's for you to decide.
> BY


so you just declare when 80% is met. why say 80% then, if it means nothing? that was sort of my point in asking the rhetorical question you attempted to answer.
you'll be happy when it fails upon lacing I'm sure. 
I certainly don't expect to hear from you on it based on this diatribe.
buyers beware, bro.
Also, when did I "b!tch?" Other than offering pretty objective information on my experience, I said I wasn't particularly stoked.
I said the response was courteous and quick, I described the remedy, I acknowledged that I am likely the minority, and said based on my experience that I wouldn't be buying more. all pretty fair statements and nothing that suggests my expectations superseded my expenditure. I actually am pretty impressed with the remedy given the circumstances... doesn't mean I'm stoked about having gotten a defective rim and having to pay to replace it.


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

Look, I agree you got a bad rim and I too would/will be pissed if my rim exploded while lacing it. Not sure I'd be as bothered by the $43 as you are though. 

As for me being wrong, yeah, I was wrong, I got an email from Nancy answering my questions saying they do wet lay-up with dry carbon fiber injected with resin. That could mean VARTM, RTM or wet hand lay-up, not prepreg. Then today I get an email back saying she misspoke. Sorry I mislead you and all of mtbr based on information I was given. 

If my rims are garbage, I'll let you all know. I also said "I wouldn't be b1tching", never specifically said you were, I'm sorry you interpreted it that way.

BY

P.S. I'll offer you small a bag of pubes, 2 wooden nickels and a yellow onion for that rim. You'll have to send me $43 though so I can ship it all to you in exchange for the rim. I accept PayPal only.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> Look, I agree you got a bad rim and I too would/will be pissed if my rim exploded while lacing it. Not sure I'd be as bothered by the $43 as you are though.


There you go assuming again... I care more about the hassle of rebuilding and the down time than I do about $43.
Where'd you get that impression? Oh right... you assumed it.


Bortis Yelltzen said:


> As for me being wrong, yeah, I was wrong, I got an email from Nancy answering my questions saying they do wet lay-up with dry carbon fiber injected with resin. That could mean VARTM, RTM or wet hand lay-up, not prepreg. Then today I get an email back saying she misspoke. Sorry I mislead you and all of mtbr based on information I was given.
> 
> If my rims are garbage, I'll let you all know. I also said "I wouldn't be b1tching", never specifically said you were, I'm sorry you interpreted it that way.
> 
> ...


Lol I'll pass on the pubes.
You said you wouldn't be as bothered as I am (an assumption), that you wouldn't b!tch, and that expecting the same level of service as a $1700 wheelset was misguided. How ever could I have connected those dots. ut:

We're good... apparently just speaking different languages I guess... you putting thoughts in my head and words in my mouth.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

manamana said:


> Just in case anyone is interested, I received my LB wide complete wheels yesterday and I'm very happy with how they look (haven't had a chance to get out for a ride yet). They were built up with the Novatec D811/D812 hubs and came in at 725g for the front wheel and 885g for the rear (excluding the rim strips/valves). I installed the Bonty rim strips, and they are a perfect fit. My Ikon and Ignitor tires aired up easily with a compressor, and were still pumped up this morning (installed them last night). I also got a couple of seatposts, both look great.


Say, do you have a tensiometer? If you do, can you run a check on the tension to see what the average and the delta is?


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Lol I'll pass on the pubes.


My final offer is a months worth of nail clippings, 5 wooden nickels, a red onion and the juice of 1 purple grape. Think it over. I'll need $45 for shipping though, my nails grow faster than my pubes.

Seriously though, good luck on the rim, hoping it works out and you enjoy the wheels.

BY


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## manamana (Jul 30, 2006)

Pau11y said:


> Say, do you have a tensiometer? If you do, can you run a check on the tension to see what the average and the delta is?


Sorry mate, I don't have any way of measuring the tension.


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## Brisco Dog (Nov 5, 2009)

manamana said:


> Just in case anyone is interested, I received my LB wide complete wheels yesterday and I'm very happy with how they look (haven't had a chance to get out for a ride yet). They were built up with the Novatec D811/D812 hubs and came in at 725g for the front wheel and 885g for the rear (excluding the rim strips/valves). I installed the Bonty rim strips, and they are a perfect fit. My Ikon and Ignitor tires aired up easily with a compressor, and were still pumped up this morning (installed them last night). I also got a couple of seatposts, both look great.


Pics?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> Say, do you have a tensiometer? If you do, can you run a check on the tension to see what the average and the delta is?


mine ran anywhere from 75 to 105kgf


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

clewttu said:


> mine ran anywhere from 75 to 105kgf


Whoa! That's a pretty huge spread! Considering when I lay my rims one on top of the other, the variation of gaps between both rims is less than 1mm (you can use this to rough gauge how true a rim is unstressed)...more of a variation in clear coat irregularities than rim true. I was expecting something in the realm of +/- 5...

clewttu, did you detension and retension, or did you just mount them up and ride?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> Whoa! That's a pretty huge spread! Considering when I lay my rims one on top of the other, the variation of gaps between both rims is less than 1mm (you can use this to rough gauge how true a rim is unstressed)...more of a variation in clear coat irregularities than rim true. I was expecting something in the realm of +/- 5...
> 
> clewttu, did you detension and retension, or did you just mount them up and ride?


i guess i should mention the majority (75% maybe) were in the 90-100 range, with some outliers, i was just spot checking to see if i needed to work on them
i detensioned them and built them back up to about 110kgf (tensions measured with a tm-1)

also, my 26" rims were damn near perfectly true unlaced, fwiw


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I was kind of hoping that range included both his non driveside and drive side spoke tensions.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

haha good point, should have stated that those numbers were drive side rear...all others were similar in uniformity (or lack thereof) but i dont remember specifics on the tensions used elsewhere, checked the drive side first, and that told me all i needed to know 
my biggest disappointment was the use of incorrect spoke lengths on the rear wheel, much more of a pain in the ass to correct


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Migration to Ebay ...*

Started seeing plenty carbon rims showing up on Ebay ,,, do a _29 Carbon Rim_ search to see what I mean.

These caught my attention as they seem to make bold statements ...
29" CARBON FIBER RIMS * TORAY T1700 FIBER * WORLD'S BEST RIMS * HIGH TECH RIMS | eBay

They claim Toray 1700, from the quick Google search I did some results stated higher Toray equates tougher carbon. Other results stated it was just a marketing gimmick. You Carbon folk, what exactly is Toray number?

Second reason interested, makes me wonder if these are the LB rims as someone mentioned their stateside warhouse is in the Northwest. These are located in WA.

Price is close to $90 more than LB rims ... maybe passing import duty fees and stateside cost to buyer?


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## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

Toray I believe is the worlds largest supplier of carbon fiber. They are out of Japan. I don't know what the t1700 truly means.

Here is some info, don't see t1700.

http://www.toraycfa.com/pdfs/ToraycaSummaryDataSheet.pdf


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## fujiblue1 (Aug 9, 2012)

hmm, tempting


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## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

I am thinking that seller might not know what he talking about. Perhaps they are t700. I see no mention of any toray t1700 out there except where this guy is trying to pawn his rims.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

would be willing to bet those are LB rims...just more expensive


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Marketing to try and attract the clueless :lol:

Remember mp5, mp6, and mp7 players? Much better than mp3!

If it's Toray "T700" (T700S), which is an economical standard modulus CF, then that still doesn't tell you much besides that's one reason why it's cheap. It doesn't tell you if they used a quality resin that's suitable for rims; pray that they at least used epoxy resin, and not cheaper polyester resin, which is more used for cosmetic CF/Fiberglass/Kevlar fabrics, nor a resin that's more suitable for a handlebar or seatpost (at this price point, I wouldn't be surprised). It doesn't tell you how precise they cut/trimmed their carbon (with the varying weights, you might have to worry). It doesn't tell you if they laid it up in a fashion most ideal to deal with forces that rims experience. It doesn't tell you about the molding and cure process.

The shape of the cheap rim doesn't seem like it takes advantage of the carbon well. A deep rim like Edge/Enves looks like it withstands vertical impacts and spoke tension much better than the short stubby shape. Just laying up the fiber in a criss cross shape to try and make it stiff in "all directions" like metals, also mimicking the shape of common metal rims is just poor design, not taking advantage of the material, IMO.

I hear Enve (with their collab with Smart) is taking the top spot over on the road side now too, which I think was occupied briefly by Zipp with their Firecrests. Anyone more knowledgable with high end roadie stuff know where Enve stands? Heard they're even cheaper than the Zipps, even with CX Rays and Tune hubs.

I understand how there's a market out there looking for affordable carbon, but considering the cost of the initial investment, cost of molds, the research to do it all right, and contracting quality labor for production, I don't see any reputable brands wanting to do it over just making a solid and quality part (to make better use of their investments), espec with these no name chinese parts coming out and smaller brands putting their name on it. Maybe Spec is just doing an aggressive business move with their Roval wheels and basically undercutting the competition a little (even though their performance and durability might not match the price), and being much more generous with their warranty replacements.


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

I got more info from LB on their materials and process. They are using Torey T700 fiber, waiting to hear about the resin. T700 is one of the better and most widely used intermediate modulus fibers, another good one is Hexcel IM7. Torey makes good fiber, T800 is used on the new Boeing 787, they are using so much of it that it is difficult to buy T800 in decent quantities. The highest modulus fiber Torey produces is T1000.

Process looks pretty good. They use a pattern cutting machine to cut the prepreg into shapes and proper fiber orientations for each ply







Plies for each rim are put not kits and numbered for stacking sequence








The plies are wrapped around a bladder in a defined stacking sequence








I'm hoping to get more photos of the molds, curing and machining process as well as more details on the resin used. So far it looks like a pretty nice operation over there.

BY


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## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

Ottoreni said:


> Started seeing plenty carbon rims showing up on Ebay ,,, do a _29 Carbon Rim_ search to see what I mean.
> 
> These caught my attention as they seem to make bold statements ...
> 29" CARBON FIBER RIMS * TORAY T1700 FIBER * WORLD'S BEST RIMS * HIGH TECH RIMS | eBay
> ...


I got this reply from the seller when I asked him about the t1700 fiber. He sells lots of parts all listed as being Toray t1700. I am guessing he is selling LB stuff.

Yes, I made a typo, it is T700. I missed this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Sometimes the fingers go too fast. I will edit it when I list the new products, new carbon handlebars, and frames are now availible.
Thanks again,

- spottedcichlidfish


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*You're Right ...*

I did a search for the item number in the T1700 Ebay auction (item number SMTB20C) and it shows on Alibaba as T700.

Looked at sellers other items, interesting that this seller seems to sell a wide selection of items. I wonder if they are just an importer.

I am just surprised at the number of carbon rims/wheels that have appeared on Ebay in the recent weeks. Are they all coming from one factory? Almost following the same steps as the carbon frames. First a few frames, now a multitude of frames. This _A-baygoods_ seller seems to flood the listings.

Lastly, stateside Carver (Bikeman) seems to be the only shop utilizing these rims. I am surprised some other shop/company is not doing it. I know BikeEmpowerment does, but he seems to add another middleman as he does not build his own wheels, but has a shop do it. I guess I am saying no business is taking advantage of the "inexpensive" carbon rim market.

Thanks for all the replies to Ebay question. Next week I plan to place my LB order.:thumbsup:


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## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

That guys says his stuff is coming from Juncai carbon fiber products (ironic name). Claims to never have heard of LB. I got his phone number and plan to talk to him later today.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Factory Name versus Retail Name*

I think Light Bicycle is a retail/brand name for us English speakers. The Juncai name is the factory name.

Case in point, on Light Bicycle's site they have a picture of the ever popular "Nancy" next to the rims, but if you go to the "about" company page her name is Yu XiaoYuan, the Non-English name.

These companies market themselves to us Westerns, but also keep their factory name for importers/large buyers.


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## asmallsol (Sep 20, 2007)

Anyone see these rims?

2012 New Arrival! Super Light Full Carbon Mtb 29er Rims,29er Carbon Mtb Rims - Buy 29er Carbon Mtb Rims,Carbon Mtb 29er Rims,Carbon 29er Rims Product on Alibaba.com

Does the Titanium wire make them different from the light-bicycle rims? Gemic?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Ottoreni said:


> I think Light Bicycle is a retail/brand name for us English speakers. The Juncai name is the factory name.
> 
> Case in point, on Light Bicycle's site they have a picture of the ever popular "Nancy" next to the rims, but if you go to the "about" company page her name is Yu XiaoYuan, the Non-English name.
> 
> These companies market themselves to us Westerns, but also keep their factory name for importers/large buyers.


I hear WWF isn't really a wrestling contest.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

asmallsol said:


> Anyone see these rims?
> 
> 2012 New Arrival! Super Light Full Carbon Mtb 29er Rims,29er Carbon Mtb Rims - Buy 29er Carbon Mtb Rims,Carbon Mtb 29er Rims,Carbon 29er Rims Product on Alibaba.com
> 
> Does the Titanium wire make them different from the light-bicycle rims? Gemic?


Not sure what titanium wire in the bead is going to do. If anything, it needs a titanium cap on the outside to protect the carbon, but that would only hide damage if you were to curb strike it and dent it.


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## Nevada 29er (Nov 12, 2007)

What is the best tubeless setup for the LB rims? Someone mentioned Bontrager strips, do Stans yellow tape not work well?

Sorry in advance, I don't have enough hours in the day to read all 800 pages of this thread.


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

I can get 29er rims and the layup design for rim companies,I dont often wade into the rim arguments because of this

I will have my own brand rims by the end of the month available but Im in England not the USA


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

viccoastal said:


> yes, I had I9's with flow rims. I was able to re-use the same spokes.
> After 20 hrs of riding they have been great!


Very good to know :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

pimpbot said:


> Not sure what titanium wire in the bead is going to do. If anything, it needs a titanium cap on the outside to protect the carbon, but that would only hide damage if you were to curb strike it and dent it.


Maybe the theory is similar to putting rebar in concrete... It might help the bead maintain some structural integrity on impact instead of a complete catastrophic failure.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I was gonna say the center channel on that ti wire rim looks really shallow, and might make installing tires a bit of a pain, that or the bead seat diameter is small and would result in a loose fit, but I see the LB one has a similarly shallow center channel. Might be the latter and maybe would require some building up to get a tighter tubeless fit. Also never seen a foam core being only left in the nook like that.


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

mattsavage said:


> Maybe the theory is similar to putting rebar in concrete... It might help the bead maintain some structural integrity on impact instead of a complete catastrophic failure.


The rebar in concrete is not there to turn potentially catastrophic failures into milder failures but to take tensile load, which concrete alone just can not. It is essential for the concrete part (assuming significant tensile load)... I was told.

That said, I have no idea what the Ti-wire is meant to do there. As it should not help with stiffness anywhere, the idea really might be to have a somewhat ductile layer "softening" failures a bit.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Nevada 29er said:


> What is the best tubeless setup for the LB rims? Someone mentioned Bontrager strips, do Stans yellow tape not work well?
> 
> Sorry in advance, I don't have enough hours in the day to read all 800 pages of this thread.


There are a variety of reports in the thousands of posts of success with both methods. Me? I chose the Bontrager strips for safety, snug fit, and the tubeless ready tires I am using based on a particular post early in this thread (look up post #131). That post convinced me to go directly to the strips. I wanted to run a product from the same company. Post 131 features the Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires and I wanted to run the Schwalbe Nobby Nic tires. With the strips - the tire/rim interface has been bombproof.

The bead hook on the LB rims are not as tubeless ready as say that of my other carbon rimmed wheels - Rovals. So the Bonty strips build in what is missing (essentially turns the rim into UST "like" rims).

As I said, though, others have reported success with the yellow tape only (but I can't recall exactly what tires they are using).

BB


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## sand0kan (Jun 6, 2010)

Stans 25 mm tape with Swalbe rockte Ron and racing Ralph no problems so far.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

Right.. after many months of umming and ahhing, finally bit the bullet and ordered some rims. 32 hole, UD, Matt.. Also placed an order for some DT Swiss 240s. Was really keen on Hadleys but pretty much impossible to source annoyingly. 

Has anyone else built up the rims with the 240s? Most seem to be heading down the CK/Hope/AC path..

This will be a first wheel build attempt.. i'm looking forward to it!


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## rockinrod42 (Jan 26, 2010)

I built my front AM 29"rim with a DT 350, similar to the 240. I used DT-Revolution spokes but found the wheel to be too wimpy in the rough for my liking, i.e I couldn't just bash through as I do with my Arch/DT-Comp wheel. I am rebuilding the front with Wheelsmith 2.0-1.7-2.0. Also will use these on the rear.


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## mhaskell (Aug 25, 2004)

Race report on these wheels:

Just finished up my first race on the wider 29er rims, with DT supercomps and 28H hope pro2 evos. Last season and the prior races this year have been done on a stan's 32H crest setup for comparison. The rim weights are nearly the same BTW.

After finishing the 12 hour race I can say the rims are slightly more stiff, and certainly give the tire a wider footprint, than the crest rims. With a single layer of gorilla tape and stans not a single burp or loss of pressure.

If you already have a high end wheelset it may not be worth the change. If you are coming from stock then by all means.


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## tracerbullet (Jul 30, 2012)

mhaskell said:


> ... Last season and the prior races this year have been done on a stan's 32H crest setup for comparison. The rim weights are nearly the same BTW.
> 
> After finishing the 12 hour race I can say the rims are slightly more stiff, and certainly give the tire a wider footprint, than the crest rims. With a single layer of gorilla tape and stans not a single burp or loss of pressure.
> 
> If you already have a high end wheelset it may not be worth the change. If you are coming from stock then by all means.


Good to know, thank you. I've been wondering about these myself and without having tried them I've come to the same conclusion. Glad to hear it from someone who's tried them.


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## jhat (Sep 27, 2010)

BruceBrown said:


> There are a variety of reports in the thousands of posts of success with both methods. Me? I chose the Bontrager strips for safety, snug fit, and the tubeless ready tires I am using based on a particular post early in this thread (look up post #131). That post convinced me to go directly to the strips. I wanted to run a product from the same company. Post 131 features the Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires and I wanted to run the Schwalbe Nobby Nic tires. With the strips - the tire/rim interface has been bombproof.
> 
> The bead hook on the LB rims are not as tubeless ready as say that of my other carbon rimmed wheels - Rovals. So the Bonty strips build in what is missing (essentially turns the rim into UST "like" rims).
> 
> ...


LB wide 29er rims, one layer of Stans yellow tape and Specialized Fast Track and Renegade tires that I run slightly over 20 psi. No issues so far. The wheels have held up to training as well as racing in the WORS series, no burping to date.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

rockinrod42 said:


> ......I used DT-Revolution spokes but found the wheel to be too wimpy in the rough for my liking, i.e I couldn't just bash through as I do with my Arch/DT-Comp wheel. I am rebuilding the front with Wheelsmith 2.0-1.7-2.0. Also will use these on the rear.


Actually glad to hear that. I'm still waiting for my rims (due to ship any day supposedly), but have hubs and spokes ready to go. Toyed with the idea of the DT-revolution spokes, but ended up ordering the exact same Wheelsmith spokes you got. I figured I would have been bummed if the wheels turned out flexy and I would still be lighter than my current set with the wheelsmiths. Besides, I read that the Revolution does twist a lot while building and was worried about them . I'm planning on lacing them but will have the shop tension them up.

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## sand0kan (Jun 6, 2010)

Got my set back from my wheelbuilder.

Specs:
32 hole Tune King/Kong hubs
DT Swiss Revo spokes.

Front wheel without tape and valve 648 grams. Rearwheel (dossry no pic) 750 grams. Total 1398 grams.

Have not ridden them yet. Will keep you posted though.


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## rl.robertson (Jul 14, 2011)

Just ordered my wider 29 Nancy rims last week.. I emailed them this week, and they said that there are 69 orders ahead of mine for the wider 29 rims.. Said it will be a few days still. Just passing this on to those thinking of buying some- looks like they are backed up, so will be a wait. I'm looking to use it to replace a cracked Roval Control SL- looks like the ERD is almost exact, so should be able to reuse spokes.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Took 4 days to ship from China to Pacific Northwest. Wow!!!


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

rl.robertson said:


> Just ordered my wider 29 Nancy rims last week.. I emailed them this week, and they said that there are 69 orders ahead of mine for the wider 29 rims.. Said it will be a few days still. Just passing this on to those thinking of buying some- looks like they are backed up, so will be a wait. I'm looking to use it to replace a cracked Roval Control SL- looks like the ERD is almost exact, so should be able to reuse spokes.


Yes!


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## Rev. 14 (Jan 22, 2012)

rl.robertson said:


> ...they said that there are 69 orders ahead of mine for the wider 29 rims.. Said it will be a few days still. Just passing this on to those thinking of buying some- looks like they are backed up, so will be a wait.


Yeah, seems these things are getting very popular and that is a good thing. Should bring down the prices on carbon wheels. Or I could just be doing wishful thinking...


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Rev. 14 said:


> Yeah, seems these things are getting very popular and that is a good thing. Should bring down the prices on carbon wheels. Or I could just be doing wishful thinking...


No, they raised the price to 165$ per rim.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Just got my "wider" carbon rims back form the wheel-builder. I first attempted to go tubeless w/ Stans tape/ Racing Ralph 2.25 tires and find no way using a floor pump and even a compressor. Now I am mounting with tubes and finding that the tires will not seat evenly on the bead. These are a set of RR with maybe 200 miles on them. I guess I will now try soaping the beads so as to get them to slip um on the bead and seat fully. What is clear is that the carbon bead is nearly raw (no finish clear coat to speak of and porous, therefore not very friendly to mounting a dry tire. The issue with tubeless is that there is too big a gap on the inside step of the rim to allow inflation, so I believe something like a Bonty rim strip would be required. Kind loose any real weight advantage of the tubeless conversion, given the weight of the rim strip and 60 gms of sealant may as well run a light weight tube and gain some sidewall stiffness in the process?


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## sand0kan (Jun 6, 2010)

I could make my set tubeless with à floorpomp stans 25 mm tape and swalbes. Not at first though. I had to pull the tire into the bead. Then added some Nozisch. After that no problems.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

I found out that I can’t get the tires (maxxis high rollers lust) evenly on the rims too....
Even after couple of tries. With soap, and compressor. Still there is a place that the tire still doesn’t pop out.
I got to 60PSI and afraid of getting higher pressure.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

buggymancan said:


> Just got my "wider" carbon rims back form the wheel-builder. I first attempted to go tubeless w/ Stans tape/ Racing Ralph 2.25 tires and find no way using a floor pump and even a compressor. Now I am mounting with tubes and finding that the tires will not seat evenly on the bead. These are a set of RR with maybe 200 miles on them. I guess I will now try soaping the beads so as to get them to slip um on the bead and seat fully. What is clear is that the carbon bead is nearly raw (no finish clear coat to speak of and porous, therefore not very friendly to mounting a dry tire. The issue with tubeless is that there is too big a gap on the inside step of the rim to allow inflation, so I believe something like a Bonty rim strip would be required. Kind loose any real weight advantage of the tubeless conversion, given the weight of the rim strip and 60 gms of sealant may as well run a light weight tube and gain some sidewall stiffness in the process?


2 ounces of sealant + a Bonty strip and valve = 99.69g per wheel
2 ounces of sealant + NoTubes tape and valve = 71.69g per wheel


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Dry mounting Schwalbes is tough, I used soapy water with compressor just fine. Take them to 40psi and they should seat well. The Bonty strip makes seating them easier as there is not much room for air to escape.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

saruti said:


> I found out that I can't get the tires (maxxis high rollers lust) evenly on the rims too....
> Even after couple of tries. With soap, and compressor. Still there is a place that the tire still doesn't pop out.
> I got to 60PSI and afraid of getting higher pressure.


Drop the pressure down to the teens, and pull it out manually by rolling the tire toward the opposite side...?

I do this to seat DH tire beads when necessary...seems to work quite well :thumbsup:


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

what is Nozisch?


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

FreuderLocks said:


> will i-9 straight pull spokes fit in these wheels? would anybody advise using these spokes and and I-9 hub in a build?
> -FreuderLocks


The answer is yes. Just had my wheels re- laced using the original spokes from my Stans build. The ERD is about 6 mm less than Stans, so the original spokes end up about 2.5 mm long, but still work fine.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Rev. 14 said:


> Yeah, seems these things are getting very popular and that is a good thing. Should bring down the prices on carbon wheels. Or I could just be doing wishful thinking...


Price goes up as demand goes up.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

buggymancan said:


> Just got my "wider" carbon rims back form the wheel-builder. I first attempted to go tubeless w/ Stans tape/ Racing Ralph 2.25 tires and find no way using a floor pump and even a compressor.


If you are using Stan's valves, remove the valve core and hit it with the compressor. When removing the chuck, plug it with your finger till you get the core back in without losing all the air. Air back up to 40psi and give it the Stan's shake on both sides then go for a 10+ mile ride. It works for me with a stubborn tire.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> Price goes up as demand goes up.


Only as per an individual product/producer, while holding all else constant.

Higher market volume allows competitive mass production, which breeds lower cost alternatives like we see with these Cheap Chinese Rims.

Hence the MASSIVE value of holding an enforceable patent !


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

As an FYI for people ordering recently. I ordered 2 sets (4 rims) on July 24. 3K weave, Matte finish. I was hoping for/requesting rims on the lighter end of the spectrum (380-390g) since I only weigh 155-160 pounds and figured I wouldn't need the extra beefy ones and the other set is for my brother's son who is even lighter. 
Just got an email saying they have 4 rims ready to ship, so that is a 3 week production time at this point. The rim weights that are ready to go are: 381g, 380g, 395g and 398. Those can get shipped tomorrow or I can wait a few extra days to try to get 2 more in the 380-390g range. 
I told him to go ahead and ship them - we will put the slightly "heavier rims" on the rear for added strength and put the lighter ones in the front. 

FWIW, people have reported shorter wait times for different finishes or rims on the heavier end of the spectrum. But since 3K matte seems pretty popular, I figured I'd update on the turnaround times...


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

Best Wishes to All !
...Refresh double post...


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Rev. 14 said:


> Yeah, seems these things are getting very popular and that is a good thing. Should bring down the prices on carbon wheels. Or I could just be doing wishful thinking...


High demand mean higher price.

If they get a lot of inventory, and demand falls off, then we get good prices.

Many companies get all caught up in making $$$ when demand is high. Then, quality can sometimes slip to get the product to customers that might otherwise be rejected. Bummer this happens sometimes.


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## ShralpSauce (Mar 22, 2012)

I have 29" 28H wide rims for sale. New and never used. Ad is posted here.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Got my wide 3k 32h Matte rims in today;

One is 367g and the other is 371g - seems they are getting lighter with the newer batches - stoked!


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Received 2 rims 26" wider at 381g and 393g. Not so happy as they should be around 370g. Complete wheelset at 1381g. (circus monkey, 24 pillar 1420 spokes).

And 391g for a 29er rim 3k matte.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

mat g said:


> Received 2 rims 26" wider at 381g and 393g. Not so happy as they should be around 370g. Complete wheelset at 1381g. (circus monkey, 24 pillar 1420 spokes).
> 
> And 391g for a 29er rim 3k matte.


Not to poo poo all over your post, but some perspective...23g = 0.051#. I'm pretty certain variation in tire and tube manufacturing is well above 23g!


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

Just a heads up for you guys wanting some of the lighter wide MTB rims.

I ordered some 20 mm clincher road rims from LB. They were in the 360 gram range. Looked good until I built them up. Never made it past 90 kgf before they started cracking around the spoke holes. Just for kicks I went ahead and finished the build and decided to air them up with some tires. I put about 110 psi in them and started hearing all kinds of strange cracking noises and stuff falling inside the rim. Whipped out the caliphers and found a spot in the rim where the brake track had swollen to a 1.5 mm variation. I'm guessing the tire cavity cracked interenaly between spoke holes. Decide to quickly air them down before it cut loose.

My point of this post is NOT to bad mouth LB. We are currently working thru a warranty claim. This post is to inform you there is a limit on how light the rims can be safely built. By Removing too much material, something is going to suffer. There is a reason why some of the Well Known Carbon rim suppliers (Enve, Roval, Zipp, Easton) are NOT making rims as light as some of these. I'm no engineer, but I'm willing to bet anything under 380 gr. on wide MTB wheel is pushing those limits.

FWIW, LB is warranting my cracked road rims with some 29er MTB rims. Unfortunately I will also have to be picking up some extra cost on this deal since the MTB rims have gone up.


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## giantdale (Nov 10, 2011)

Well, I too have 20 mm road clincher rims, but I only managed to build the rear wheel so far, no issues. They are 374 and 378 g (32 and 28 holes). I requested drilling for internal nipples and the holes in the rim bed are only 6.5 mm. They seem exceptionally solid rims to me, way more so than any alloy counterpart in that weight range.


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## kingair (Jun 2, 2008)

I have two sets of road bike rim and one set of 26" mtn bike rims from LB so far. One set of road wheels I built with 38mm front and 50mm rear the other set are both 50mm. All three pairs of rims built up into very nice wheels. I'm about to pull the trigger on a couple more rims for my 29er.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

I received an email from Brian tonight that they have developed a new manufacturing method for removing the airbag from inside the wheels while they are being made. Instead of cutting a square hole and bonding over it later they are now using a small circular hole with a rubber insert that is supposedly stronger - as well as 3k weave on the inside of rim as well.

I have some photos I will upload later on - not sure if this tech is for all of their rims or just the road wheels (I enquired about 88mm wheels)


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

broadwayline said:


> I received an email from Brian tonight that they have developed a new manufacturing method for removing the airbag from inside the wheels while they are being made. Instead of cutting a square hole and bonding over it later they are now using a small circular hole with a rubber insert that is supposedly stronger - as well as 3k weave on the inside of rim as well.
> 
> I have some photos I will upload later on - not sure if this tech is for all of their rims or just the road wheels (I enquired about 88mm wheels)


Nancy had talked to me about that and also sent me pictures...but it was for road rims as well..she didn't mention anything about that for the mtb rims. I'm pretty sure it applies to it though.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Enoch said:


> Just a heads up for you guys wanting some of the lighter wide MTB rims.
> 
> I ordered some 20 mm clincher road rims from LB. They were in the 360 gram range. Looked good until I built them up. Never made it past 90 kgf before they started cracking around the spoke holes. Just for kicks I went ahead and finished the build and decided to air them up with some tires. I put about 110 psi in them and started hearing all kinds of strange cracking noises and stuff falling inside the rim. Whipped out the caliphers and found a spot in the rim where the brake track had swollen to a 1.5 mm variation. I'm guessing the tire cavity cracked interenaly between spoke holes. Decide to quickly air them down before it cut loose.
> 
> ...


Coulda been a fluke. Maybe the tech didn't let the epoxy penetrate enough, or something. But yeah, seems there is a minimum amount of carbon that has to be there to support the load, regardless of the physical size of the rim.

I hate to sound like a scaredy luddite, but I don't really trust carbon rims in a rim brake application anyway. I'm a bigger kinda guy and get the rims pretty hot as it is... and I want my brakes to work well, especially at road bike speeds. I've seen carbon rims (even modern ones from good mfgs) de-laminate under lots of brake heat even with the right pads.


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## rl.robertson (Jul 14, 2011)

Got my tracking number! Should be here in 4 days!


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> Coulda been a fluke. Maybe the tech didn't let the epoxy penetrate enough, or something. But yeah, seems there is a minimum amount of carbon that has to be there to support the load, regardless of the physical size of the rim.


You know, it really doesn't matter, the point is/should be that they don't know what their doing with this technology and we are their test pilots.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

pimpbot said:


> Coulda been a fluke. Maybe the tech didn't let the epoxy penetrate enough, or something. But yeah, seems there is a minimum amount of carbon that has to be there to support the load, regardless of the physical size of the rim.
> 
> I hate to sound like a scaredy luddite, but I don't really trust carbon rims in a rim brake application anyway. I'm a bigger kinda guy and get the rims pretty hot as it is... and I want my brakes to work well, especially at road bike speeds. I've seen carbon rims (even modern ones from good mfgs) de-laminate under lots of brake heat even with the right pads.


No big hills in Texas, so I'm enjoying my 50mm clinchers from LB. 

And with the basalt brake tracks it is much better at handling brake heat.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Simplemind said:


> You know, it really doesn't matter, the point is/should be that they don't know what their doing with this technology and we are their test pilots.


What drives me crazy is when there is s failure with one of these chinese rims or frames you hear, "oh, you get what you pay for, blah, blah, blah." But when it's an over priced name brand, it's "looks llike rider error or did you use a torque wrench?" 
Failures happen. I've been reading this thread for a while and don't rememeber seeing anymore failures than you can find in any of the name brand forums. The fact that everything that has anything do to with one of these rims, good or bad is in the same thread and doesn't get lost and buried 10 pages back. This thread has been on page 1for 2 years.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Lenny7 said:


> What drives me crazy is when there is s failure with one of these chinese rims or frames you hear, "oh, you get what you pay for, blah, blah, blah." But when it's an over priced name brand, it's "looks llike rider error or did you use a torque wrench?"
> Failures happen. I've been reading this thread for a while and don't rememeber seeing anymore failures than you can find in any of the name brand forums. The fact that everything that has anything do to with one of these rims, good or bad is in the same thread and doesn't get lost and buried 10 pages back. This thread has been on page 1for 2 years.


Agreed - I feel a lot safer on these than I do a Stan's Crest, especially when I am right at the weight limit of the Crest.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Lenny7 said:


> What drives me crazy is when there is s failure with one of these chinese rims or frames you hear, "oh, you get what you pay for, blah, blah, blah." But when it's an over priced name brand, it's "looks llike rider error or did you use a torque wrench?"
> Failures happen. I've been reading this thread for a while and don't rememeber seeing anymore failures than you can find in any of the name brand forums. The fact that everything that has anything do to with one of these rims, good or bad is in the same thread and doesn't get lost and buried 10 pages back. This thread has been on page 1for 2 years.


Great point. I have Easton EC90 carbon wheels on my road bike and love them. The braking surface showed very mild pre-delamination changes on the rear wheel after 1.5 years. They warrantied the wheel. Bike shop and Easton of course said how rarely they see that with the Eastons, but it obviously does happen. It was considered "no big deal, at least the warranty service was great" which is actually true. But had that happened with the Chinese wheels people's reactions may have been different....

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

With the matte rims, are you guys gloss painting the rim cavity to get the rim tape to stick, or are you just taping over the matte finish? With the Gorilla tape or Stan's tape?


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## oldm8 (Dec 6, 2011)

rensho said:


> With the matte rims, are you guys gloss painting the rim cavity to get the rim tape to stick, or are you just taping over the matte finish? With the Gorilla tape or Stan's tape?


I just taped over the matte finish and no problems so far. Used Stan's tape on one and duct tape on the other as I ran out of Stan's tape.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

rensho said:


> With the matte rims, are you guys gloss painting the rim cavity to get the rim tape to stick, or are you just taping over the matte finish? With the Gorilla tape or Stan's tape?


You can just tape over the matte finish. But make sure to double check the machined holes to make sure it is not de-laminating if you're planning to use gorilla tape (since it's so sticky). If you need to, use a little bit of epoxy to seal the side of the holes.


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## bykerider (Feb 17, 2009)

rensho said:


> With the matte rims, are you guys gloss painting the rim cavity to get the rim tape to stick, or are you just taping over the matte finish? With the Gorilla tape or Stan's tape?


I used the stanlys tape, it was tough to get it to stick so I just worked small sections at a time. I was not fully pleased with the level of adhesion so I stalled up some tires w/ tubes over night to apply pressure to the tape. I pulled the tires off and the tape was sticking nicely over the whole circumference of both wheels. Threw in some valves and aired them up to 200psi, no problems yet


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

bykerider said:


> . Threw in some valves and aired them up to 200psi, no problems yet


200psi?!


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

anthonylokrn said:


> You can just tape over the matte finish.


Sorry, so forgive the newb question. While I am an experienced with road and cyclocross wheel setups, I am new to tubeless and assume the tape is to create seal thus tape would be required regardless of whether using Stans or Bontrager Rythm rims strips?


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

No tape required if using the Bonty strips.
.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Even expensive wheels fail - at least if these fail my wallet will still be a lot heavier than the name brands 

Roval Carbon 29er Rim | CWORBC


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

mat g said:


> Received 2 rims 26" wider at 381g and 393g. Not so happy as they should be around 370g. Complete wheelset at 1381g. (circus monkey, 24 pillar 1420 spokes).
> 
> And 391g for a 29er rim 3k matte.


Where did you get the pillar 1420 spokes? I can't seem to find any for sale online.


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## hatrickpatrick (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi Folks, 
I've read a bunch of this thread (30 pages?) - lots of great data here as well. I've gleaned that "Light Bicycle" seems to be the place to get a good set of carbon rims / wheels. I've got a few questions though and maybe some of you can help me. I ride my 29er XC endurance with a notubes conversion currently. I'm going to build a Singlespeed and eventually these wheels will go on them. I don't really want to build the wheels myself - rather have someone build them or buy them pre-built. So that's my first question: 
-Has anyone bought their pre-built wheels? How is the quality?
-Is it still much better to build them at the LBS? 
-If so, what's a typical / good setup (hub, spoke, combo for XC endurance racing?). 
Thanks folks!


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

hatrickpatrick said:


> Hi Folks,
> I've read a bunch of this thread (30 pages?) - lots of great data here as well. I've gleaned that "Light Bicycle" seems to be the place to get a good set of carbon rims / wheels. I've got a few questions though and maybe some of you can help me. I ride my 29er XC endurance with a notubes conversion currently. I'm going to build a Singlespeed and eventually these wheels will go on them. I don't really want to build the wheels myself - rather have someone build them or buy them pre-built. So that's my first question:
> -Has anyone bought their pre-built wheels? How is the quality?
> -Is it still much better to build them at the LBS?
> ...


I have not seen the bre-built wheels (haven't even seen my own rims yet - should arrive early next week). A couple of people have reported recently on the the full prebuilt wheel quality as being just "OK" - not what you would expect fom a local LBS build, but OK considering the price. Some of the spokes tend to be a bit too long compared to ideal. One person measured spoke tension and found a very large range, which again is not ideal. The hubs on the pre-built wheels are mediocre and probably OK for casual use, but maybe not good enough for EX endurance racing.

I opted to buy the rims only, I got Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs on sale (from ChainReactionCycles.com; $75 front, $180 rear). I'm planning on lacing them with Wheelsmith spokes and then having my LBS tension them. It'll end up costing my $100-150 more than having Light Bicycle order the Hope hubs in and having them build the wheels, but I will feel much better about the build (About $300 more than using the Novatech hubs). I will also have spare spokes in case of broken spokes down the road and the LBS to stand behind the build itself. If you don't want to lace or anything, I would have your shop use whatever spokes they prefer so that they already have them in stock....

I am not a wheel or hub expert by any means. From my own "research" I decided that the Hope hubs were a good "bang for the buck" upgrade from the Novatech hubs. People who are building a killer wheeset and are OK with spending a bit more are going with Chirs King or DT swiss hubs.

Good luck.


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## ShralpSauce (Mar 22, 2012)

ShralpSauce said:


> I have 29" 28H wide rims for sale. New and never used. Ad is posted here.


Bump! Someone buy these!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ShralpSauce said:


> Bump! Someone buy these!


Good luck selling your uncommon-spec, overpriced rims... and I'm sure I can speak for everyone in saying I appreciate you spamming the board.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Good luck selling your uncommon-spec, overpriced rims... and I'm sure I can speak for everyone in saying I appreciate you spamming the board.


this^^^^


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## ShralpSauce (Mar 22, 2012)

Overpriced?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

ShralpSauce said:


> I have 29" 28H wide rims for sale. New and never used. Ad is posted here.


Bump... Somebody buy these rims!


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

I received my 26" 3k wide "husky" rims and built them up this weekend. Rims look pretty good, one was better than the other slightly. The lesser of the 2 had some wrinkles and epoxy ridges inside from the bladder, some were near spokes and needed to be sanded down so the spokes sat well on the eyelet.

Didn't weigh anything, but wasn't building them for weight savings. I figure if Stan's Flows are $90 retail, these are going to be much stronger and stiffer gram for gram compared to a Flow. For me, the extra $60-75 per rim may be worth it if these hold up. I built them up on the DT Swiss 240 hubs off the EX1750's these wheels replaced. I used DT Swiss Competition 2.0-1.8 spokes and Prolock 14 mm alloy nips. Ran into an issue with the extra carbon I requested in the rims, I asked for 450 gram rims. It changed the ERD by 3-4 mm so my spokes as calculated for the 536 ERD didn't have as much thread engagement as I liked so I had to scramble to 3 different local shops to find 64 longer spokes.

After that mess the wheels built up nicely. I saw a little bit of delamination at some of the spoke holes, so I sealed the edges with some adhesive from work a day before building the wheels. I tensioned them up to 110-120 kgf with no issues. Shake down ride today was impressive. The wheels are stiff, between the tension and the carbon rims they are noticeably stiffer than the 1750's they replaced. Didn't notice any weight difference in feel, but again, that wasn't my intention with these wheels. Wide internal channel definitely beefs up and flattens my tire profile also, I like it.

I set them up tubeless with Stan's tape and rim strips. Minimal headache getting things set. Front went easy, rear was a little trickier, but more due reusing old Stan's rim strips though.

So far so good. Time will tell...

BY


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Got some build:
29er wider/heavier Nancy rims, 3K, gloss, 32h. Built mine like BY did w/ this, not after weight, but strength. Didn't bother to weigh things since I'm running Conti Trail King 2.4s...1100g/ea tire. Used Bonty strips and 44mm stems and they sealed up w/ no effort. Tension is around 100 to 110 kgf w/ alloy nips everywhere, except brass on the drive side. 
Took a bit of time to build... Frist tried to see how the wheel built up using the tension method. Too inconsistent results so I trued after setting tension...hence the range of tensions. Did not notice any bulging or delam-ing at nipple holes.
During the build process, when I side loaded the wheel to unwind the spokes, there were crackling noises...kinda like when you flex a new pair of skis. Once everything bedded in, no more noise.


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

I have a set of the pre-built wider 29's with the Novatec 881/882 hubs on a 142*12 through axle. 

The rims have continued to be bomber, I have 100 hours already of pretty hard biking on them and have really slammed rocks a couple of times with no issues. 

However today in the middle of what was going to be a 6+hour ride, the rear freewheel completely gave way, ie no pedal power, it would just turn. The wheel and freewheel still click when its rotating, but pedalling does nothing. No warning, no clicking, no skipping, nothing, it just quit working. 

So needless to say I am NOT recommending that you use the rear Novatec hub. I will be replacing it immediately. I'm just glad we weren't on a deeper ride than this.


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

Preston said:


> I have a set of the pre-built wider 29's with the Novatec 881/882 hubs on a 142*12 through axle.
> 
> The rims have continued to be bomber, I have 100 hours already of pretty hard biking on them and have really slammed rocks a couple of times with no issues.
> 
> ...


So did you open it up to see what the problem was?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> Bump... Somebody buy these rims!


Bumping somebody else's overpriced rims? Wtf with you guys? Since it apparently needs pointing out to the two of you spamming idiots, a person could buy these rims new from the manufacturer with no questions about warranty for $20 less than your buddy's BS ad about "selling for what he paid."


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

Im wodering what factories you guys are buying from I know the one i discuss layups with you are getting a lot of carbon for the money


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## ShralpSauce (Mar 22, 2012)

meltingfeather said:


> Bumping somebody else's overpriced rims? Wtf with you guys? Since it apparently needs pointing out to the two of you spamming idiots, a person could buy these rims new from the manufacturer with no questions about warranty for $20 less than your buddy's BS ad about "selling for what he paid."


Whoa. Calm your panties..

Don't know mr mattsavage, but I appreciate the bump as the rims are now sold.

Oh, and I paid $380.. but what does it matter. You've got about 2 million of those rep points, and I've got none, so who's gonna believe me? Guess I need to step up my game..

<img src= "https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8421/7825708008_8abaeaa188_b.jpg">


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ShralpSauce said:


> Oh, and I paid $380.. but what does it matter. You've got about 2 million of those rep points, and I've got none, so who's gonna believe me? Guess I need to step up my game..


I get rep because I spend most of my time here helping people and answering questions... as opposed to spamming for personal gain. 

It'd be killer if you "stepped up your game." :thumbsup:


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## ShralpSauce (Mar 22, 2012)

meltingfeather said:


> I get rep because I spend most of my time here helping people and answering questions... as opposed to spamming for personal gain.
> 
> It'd be killer if you "stepped up your game." :thumbsup:


I'm sure you do help people man, but I think "it apparently needs pointing out" that the rims are indeed selling for $380 shipped from light-bicycle and I _was_ selling them for the same price I got em for.

Where my rep @?

But really, PM me if you have something to say. I think you're filling this thread with more knowledge than it can handle.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> Where did you get the pillar 1420 spokes? I can't seem to find any for sale online.


I asked LB about buying spoke in the same time I'd ordered rims.


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

>So did you open it up to see what the problem was?

Even though I have always worked on my bikes and cars, I'm not an expert at dissecting freewheels but this was one was pretty obvious - the freewheel is a little different than I thought - the pawls are on the back, and they ratchet on a serrated surface on the inside of the hub. I normally think of a freewheel assembly as "self contained" but like I said I haven't rebuilt them before. In this case, the "serrated' surface is part of an insert in the hub body. As far as I can tell it is a simple press fit, I could not see any pins or anything that were supposed to hold it. AFter a time, it just started spinning in there (albeit with a lot of friction). It seems like a ridiculously lame design to me, a few simple pins would hold it. I would need to knock the bearings out and fully disassemble it to see if there were some pins or other retainment that sheared off, but I probably won't bother. What is the point ? I cannot tolerate that type of failure. 30 years of biking I've had plenty of hubs and freewheels wear out and get gritty and sh*tty, but I've never had one completely fail for no good reason. 

I ordered a Hope Evo 2 pro hub, I've heard generally good things about them and its a bit lighter and comes in red and was $200 cheaper than a DT Swiss 240s, but if anyone has anything negative to say about the Hope let me know. 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston View Post
I have a set of the pre-built wider 29's with the Novatec 881/882 hubs on a 142*12 through axle.

The rims have continued to be bomber, I have 100 hours already of pretty hard biking on them and have really slammed rocks a couple of times with no issues.

However today in the middle of what was going to be a 6+hour ride, the rear freewheel completely gave way, ie no pedal power, it would just turn. The wheel and freewheel still click when its rotating, but pedalling does nothing. No warning, no clicking, no skipping, nothing, it just quit working.

So needless to say I am NOT recommending that you use the rear Novatec hub. I will be replacing it immediately. I'm just glad we weren't on a deeper ride than this.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

mat g said:


> I asked LB about buying spoke in the same time I'd ordered rims.


I dunno. I think it's easier to deal with a well stocked LBS. If you miscalculate the spoke length, you have a better chance of fixing the issue if you deal with the LBS.


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## expostdelirium (Sep 2, 2009)

*Ah...sunshine*



saruti said:


> I found out that I can't get the tires (maxxis high rollers lust) evenly on the rims too....
> Even after couple of tries. With soap, and compressor. Still there is a place that the tire still doesn't pop out.
> I got to 60PSI and afraid of getting higher pressure.


I used to have probs getting ANY tire to seat evenly (tubed/tubeless) on the set of Bonty wheels that I replaced w/ these carbons. One thing I did, and it worked better than the other things I tried, was to but as much pressure into the tire as I could, then put it outside in the sun. I did a bit of yardwork then came back to a better-situated tire. I let some air out to get it to a more rideable pressure though.

I bought mine prebuilt w/ the Novatech hubs, and I have been riding them like crazy. I'd say I have about the same amount of time on them as you do - maybe a bit less. I bought them prebuilt w/ the assumption that I would just upgrade the hubs after mine failed. My wheels have held up well, but I am still looking forward to upgrading the hubs for hubs w/ great POE when it comes time. Hopefully mine doesn't just "give out", and hopefully I'm not far from home (or the car), and hopefully it doesn't happen just before it gets dark. I figured for a bit more coin than just the rims alone that I could ride these until they gave out, and I'd already have the rims and maybe I'd only have to replace the rear hub. Hopefully it will be awhile, and hopefully they don't fail at all.

I plan to order another pair for a 29er Ti frame that I'm in the planning stages of right now.


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> 29er wider/heavier Nancy rims, 3K, gloss, 32h. Built mine like BY did w/ this, not after weight, but strength. Didn't bother to weigh things since I'm running Conti Trail King 2.4s...1100g/ea tire.


Pau11y, nice build man and with the Kings too!!! How do you like that DT tension meter. DId I read your post right, the Conti Tail kings alone weigh 1100 grams each? Those must be bullet proof.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Built up my second set last night. Wide 29er, UD matte 32 hole with King hubs, Revolution spokes and ProLock nips. Man these things are sweet. Almost were perfectly round and true after simply lacing. The front weighed 789 and the rear was 901 grams without tape or valves.


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## rl.robertson (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm seeing all of these "arrived in 4 days posts" after spending hours of my life reading through the 90 something pages. My USPS tracking is showing processed through ICS New York.. from what I understand this is customs? It's been with that status for several days, and my order actually shipped 1 week ago. Just wondering if anybody else had any insight as to how fast the rims have moved through "customs" etc in the US. I can't be the only one who has this problem.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

rl.robertson said:


> Just wondering if anybody else had any insight as to how fast the rims have moved through "customs" etc in the US.


Can't say anything just about customs, but my rims entered the shipping system in China on Sat, and the 1st delivery attempt was the following Tues...


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> Built up my second set last night. Wide 29er, UD matte 32 hole with King hubs, Revolution spokes and ProLock nips. Man these things are sweet. Almost were perfectly round and true after simply lacing. The front weighed 789 and the rear was 901 grams without tape or valves.


Hogprint, is that front king the 15mm ta? if so is the one that can go up to 20mm. I got some red kings ordered. What were your spoke lengths? I'm going to pull the trigger on these wider 29er for LB. Wheels are looking good.


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

Holy crap Pau11y I just checked on pricing on the DT Swiss spoke tension meter and my jaw dropped.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

crclawn said:


> Holy crap Pau11y I just checked on pricing on the DT Swiss spoke tension meter and my jaw dropped.


Yeah, you like that!? :eekster:
I got mine used. It was a bit less. Beautiful jeweler grade tool tho. :thumbsup:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

crclawn said:


> Pau11y, nice build man and with the Kings too!!! How do you like that DT tension meter. DId I read your post right, the Conti Tail kings alone weigh 1100 grams each? Those must be bullet proof.


That DT tensiometer... They make two versions, the digital and the dial. I like the dial because of the mental relation to a % value.

That tire...yeah, it's a pig! But I LOVE the traction of it on the 26er. Actually, I haven't tried it in the frame and fork yet...a little worried about the fitment actually...


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

^^^^^^^^^not to get off topic, but I feel you man. I stopped trying to save wieght on my wheels and tires because i got "tired" no pun intented of slashing sidewalls and bending rims. Thats one beast of a wheelset. Hope it fits the frame. Cheers:thumbsup:


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Just finished building up some 29" wide rims with DT Revo spokes, DT Alu nipples, and American Classic hubs - came out to 1430g flat.

STOKED!

They are also almost perfectly true without any spoke tension, impressive.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

crclawn said:


> I stopped trying to save wieght on my wheels and tires because i got "tired" no pun intented of slashing sidewalls and bending rims. Thats one beast of a wheelset. *Hope it fits the frame*. Cheers:thumbsup:


Yeah, agree w/ your every word. I build wheels to NOT have to work on them again...within reason. I've found every wheel I've had others build for me needed attention after the first few rides. But the ones I build...so far, I haven't had to pull many tires off my wheels to retrue. I've even had to retension a $1300 set of DT wheels I bought...those Oro 1450 roadies! Same philosophy on building a bike up. Takes me like a week to get a frame rolling if I have everything...the application of the clear bra being the most time consuming on carbon frames. But the thing rolls silent a year later...no creaks, no noise. Yeah, they're not the lightest end results you'll ever see, but again, I don't need work on them every other wknd. :thumbsup:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*A note on the ERD*

For those who've requested "heavier" rims, you might want to increase your spoke length by 1mm AFTER you've calc'd the length IF you've requested a "heavier" rim. Between myself and reports of Boris Yeltsen's build, it seems to be a consistent thing for these "heavier" wide Nancy rims.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Preston said:


> >
> I ordered a Hope Evo 2 pro hub..... but if anyone has anything negative to say about the Hope let me know.
> 
> ..


The Pro2 drive shells used to crack if you are a Hammer, not sure if the EVO are better.... I used them on my build. With RED nips. Seems lotsa builds are using red nips!
.
Whats the advantage or ProLock nips??
.


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## paulrb02 (Aug 3, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> For those who've requested "heavier" rims, you might want to increase your spoke length by 1mm AFTER you've calc'd the length IF you've requested a "heavier" rim. Between myself and reports of Boris Yeltsen's build, it seems to be a consistent thing for these "heavier" wide Nancy rims.


Thanks for the info.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

rl.robertson said:


> Just wondering if anybody else had any insight as to how fast the rims have moved through "customs" etc in the US.


Cant really help with customs as they move at their own pace but the upside is once it gets through customs, USPS typically treats the package as though it had been shipped Express Mail.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Ordered mine on July 30th and they still haven't shipped.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Lenny7 said:


> Ordered mine on July 30th and they still haven't shipped.


That's about average for recent orders. I ordered mine July 24th and they shipped last week on Aug 15th. Yours are probably close... If you are curious, Nancy or Brian have seemed very helpful in answering questions regarding where you are in the production line and giving a better ETA now that you are probably close.

Mine have been sitting in California since Sunday evening (likely in Customs)...

....Edit: USPS attempted delivery today, but didn't leave them.  I should have left a note, but I had no idea they were coming today, plus UPS is just in the habit of leaving packages for me I didn't even think that the post man wouldn't. :banghead: Oh well, will pick them up tomorrow after my ride....


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## rl.robertson (Jul 14, 2011)

Came in today- guess USPS doesn't update their site regularly.. Weird.. Anyways, my carbon 29 32h 3k matte weights in at 401 grams. Guess they're running a little heavier now.. Either way, 20 grams is not even a frozen strawberry!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*...a biiiit snug!*



crclawn said:


> Hope it fits the frame. Cheers:thumbsup:


Motivated me to check...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ShralpSauce said:


> Where my rep @?


so somehow it's admirable because you're not making money?
:skep:


ShralpSauce said:


> But really, PM me if you have something to say. I think you're filling this thread with more knowledge than it can handle.


but really, "don't be a d00shbag," is what I have to say, and if you wanted it in PM, take it there yourself.

search my name and you'll find numerous contributions in this thread alone.
it's OK for you and your buddy to spam the thread to sell sh!t, but not for a contributing member of the forum to call you out?
GTFO
xoxoxxo
:ciappa:

to the neg repper who said,
"He paid for an ad, posting ads in relevant threads is allowed. You don't like it; tough..."
one post of an ad is tolerated. posting an ad in multiple forums and bumping it is spam. period.


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## ShralpSauce (Mar 22, 2012)

meltingfeather said:


> so somehow it's admirable because you're not making money?
> :skep:
> 
> but really, "don't be a d00shbag," is what I have to say, and if you wanted it in PM, take it there yourself.
> ...


Obviously I am nowhere near as admirable as you, Lance. Nor did I intend to make any money on the rims (which was stated pretty clearly in my ad). The thing is, you said they were overpriced and could be had cheaper from the manufacture. While I know this may hurt your feelings/admirability, you MAY just get negative rep for providing this wikipedia of mountain bikes with false information. I bought the rims for $380 and sold em for $380 just like I had planned.

Maybe I got ripped? Or perhaps I don't have the super sweet MTBR master reputation coupon code that you have access to... but I think most guys don't.

And again, I don't know the dude who bumped my thread.. I have no friends. Look at my rep!!!

PM'd ya brahda.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Will you two fvcking clowns get a room and work out your bro'mance already?!

Edit: I forgot...


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> Motivated me to check...


A man likes it tight, but damn, thats tight!


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

crclawn said:


> Hogprint, is that front king the 15mm ta? if so is the one that can go up to 20mm. I got some red kings ordered. What were your spoke lengths? I'm going to pull the trigger on these wider 29er for LB. Wheels are looking good.


Yes the front is the 15 thru that has the larger axle ability. I think King refers to them as LH. I chose that style because I could get away with only one spoke length for both sides, front and rear. 292mm.


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> Yes the front is the 15 thru that has the larger axle ability. I think King refers to them as LH. I chose that style because I could get away with only one spoke length for both sides, front and rear. 292mm


.

Thanks hogprint! Def makes for an easy lace. Funny, that's that's the excat spoke lenght for my Hadleys/flows. Might have to try these for the kings. I normally just use DT double butt and DT 12mm nips. Why did you use Prolock and Revo spokes/nips? do you find them better or weight savings?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

crclawn said:


> .
> 
> Thanks hogprint! Def makes for an easy lace. Funny, that's that's the excat spoke lenght for my Hadleys/flows. Might have to try these for the kings. I normally just use DT double butt and DT 12mm nips. Why did you use Prolock and Revo spokes/nips? do you find them better or weight savings?


The LH makes more sense than just spoke length... Chances are, the long travel 29er fork will reach into the 20mm axle arena when they start to get into the (yet to come) 150 and 160 travels. The LH can be converted easily to the 20mm...

I use the DT Comps, because of my weight and riding style. Revos are thinner and saves weight, but they'll also distort more easily...the thin part stretches and lets the rim to hub flex...for someone who knows how to bend/torque on a wheel.

Hogprint, are the prolocs the ones that have a hex head on the rim side? those are nice...more torque on the nipples before they'll distort. I have a set of Reynolds MTN-c that uses these nipples. But you need a special nipple driver, yeah?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> The LH makes more sense than just spoke length... Chances are, the long travel 29er fork will reach into the 20mm axle arena when they start to get into the (yet to come) 150 and 160 travels. The LH can be converted easily to the 20mm...


It's LD for "large diameter."
Just FYI :thumbsup:



Pau11y said:


> are the prolocs the ones that have a hex head on the rim side? those are nice...more torque on the nipples before they'll distort. I have a set of Reynolds MTN-c that uses these nipples. But you need a special nipple driver, yeah?


Prolocs have glue in them. They come in both hex head and regular. The hex head offers a little convenience at the price of a little weight. Nothin in terms of "torque" or "distortion."
You do not need a special driver for hex head nipples. They still accept a regular spoke wrench, but that sort of defeats the only benefit.


----------



## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

Thanks for the correction. LD it is. My pro locks are normal shape just with the spoke prep already inside. why those? They were in stock. Why revolutions? The friend I'm building them for weighs about 160-170.


----------



## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Question about spoke tension. Seems like people have mentioned 100-120 kgf for tensions. I am having the wheel guy at a local shop tension the wheels I laced up the "wider" 29er rims to Hope hubs with Wheelsmith 2.0-1.7-2.0 spokes, 3-cross everywhere. Has anybody used the Park tension tool for these wheels? Does a number of 20 on that scale sound right? Also, he said he tends to do the drive side around 20 but the non-drive side at 10, which seems like too large of a difference. Is that OK?

Any suggestions regarding drive vs non-drive tensions, especially with Park scale, would be greatly appreciated. Is that disparity only for the rear wheel? I would think that the front wheel should be the same on both sides or higher on the disc side, no? 

He noticed that the rims looked a lot like Roval rims so he thought he would get a spoke tension reading off a Roval wheel and use that as a guide. Good idea? 

Thanks


Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

albertdc said:


> Question about spoke tension. Seems like people have mentioned 100-120 kgf for tensions. I am having the wheel guy at a local shop tension the wheels I laced up the "wider" 29er rims to Hope hubs with Wheelsmith 2.0-1.7-2.0 spokes, 3-cross everywhere. Has anybody used the Park tension tool for these wheels? Does a number of 20 on that scale sound right?


20 sounds right for a 1.7mm spoke. That's 110kgf.
There are two versions/calibration scales of the Park Tool, and I'm not 100% sure if that particular value is different, but he seems in the right range.


albertdc said:


> Also, he said he tends to do the drive side around 20 but the non-drive side at 10, which seems like too large of a difference. Is that OK?


No, not OK.
You don't get to pick the NDS tension. It is what it is when the wheel is dished correctly. As a tip, the ratio of tension for a correctly dished wheel (with uniform tension) is the same as the inverse ratio of the flange offsets.
Relevant example:
For a geared Pro 2 the flange offset ratio is 20.5/31.5=0.65
That means the NDS tension will be 65% of the DS tension when the wheel is dished correctly.
110*65%=*71*, which is ~15.5 on the Park TM-1.
If he did set your tensions to 20 & 10 your wheel will be dished incorrectly (off-center), which you will likely be able to see. One way to check would be to measure from each chainstay to the rim in the same place and see if they are the same.



albertdc said:


> Any suggestions regarding drive vs non-drive tensions, especially with Park scale, would be greatly appreciated. Is that disparity only for the rear wheel? I would think that the front wheel should be the same on both sides or higher on the disc side, no?


The tension will be higer on the disc side of the front wheel.
Pro 2 front will be 19.5/34=0.57
DS should be 57% of NDS, or a tick over 14 on the Park if the NDS is set to 20.



albertdc said:


> He noticed that the rims looked a lot like Roval rims so he thought he would get a spoke tension reading off a Roval wheel and use that as a guide. Good idea?


Unfortunately it sounds like it may be a good idea to get a builder who knows a bit more about what he's doing... no offense intended.
Barring that, he should set the NDS front and DS rear to 20 and then dish the wheel properly.
:thumbsup:


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

@meltingfeather: I was hoping you might respond! :thumbup: Thanks for the detail. I got nervous as I was talking to him, but didn't have the heart to take the wheels back since he kept saying that he has built up Reynolds carbon wheels, etc. I went back this evening though and took them back since he hadn't started on them yet. (I have a post in the Utah section asking for suggestions of who to use.)

I wish I had the tools to do it myself - lacing them up was fun and it would be cool to finish, but I don't expect to build enough to invest in the tension meter +/- a truing stand. But at least now with numbers in hand, I can vet the next builder better. 

Thanks again.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

ShralpSauce said:


> Obviously I am nowhere near as admirable as you, Lance. Nor did I intend to make any money on the rims (which was stated pretty clearly in my ad). The thing is, you said they were overpriced and could be had cheaper from the manufacture. While I know this may hurt your feelings/admirability, you MAY just get negative rep for providing this wikipedia of mountain bikes with false information. I bought the rims for $380 and sold em for $380 just like I had planned.
> 
> Maybe I got ripped? Or perhaps I don't have the super sweet MTBR master reputation coupon code that you have access to... but I think most guys don't.
> 
> ...


Charge what you like, but second hand stuff is usually at least 20% off the original price, even unused.

Second hand, meaning it isn't coming from the original retailer. You have to give somebody an incentive to buy them with no warranty and service. If you think you're going to sell them without taking a hit, you're high.

It's only worth what you can sell it for.


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## armara (Mar 19, 2011)

Hi,

I think I read somewhere in the last 83 pages that the spokes from a Hope Pro 2 hub/ Stans Arch 29 wheel were the same length as I would need for these 400gm wide rims. My DT spokes are 292mm and 294mm, am I correct? My rims were posted to Australia yesterday, around 2 weeks to be made.

Thanks for a very informative forum, I have read every page and am looking forward to riding with these rims.

Mark


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

Has anyone bought rims from Farsports-Carbon Bicycle Rim,Carbon Wheel,Carbon Frame Alot of people at RBR are liking the road rims but havent seen any mention of them on here? They look awsome.

Farsports-Carbon Bicycle Rim,Carbon Wheel,Carbon Frame


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

crclawn said:


> .
> 
> Thanks hogprint! Def makes for an easy lace. Funny, that's that's the excat spoke lenght for my Hadleys/flows. Might have to try these for the kings. I normally just use DT double butt and DT 12mm nips. Why did you use Prolock and Revo spokes/nips? do you find them better or weight savings?


Lefty's fixed axle is 25mm on one side tapered to 15mm on the other. Just sayin':smilewinkgrin:


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

armara said:


> Hi,
> 
> I think I read somewhere in the last 83 pages that the spokes from a Hope Pro 2 hub/ Stans Arch 29 wheel were the same length as I would need for these 400gm wide rims. My DT spokes are 292mm and 294mm, am I correct? My rims were posted to Australia yesterday, around 2 weeks to be made.
> 
> ...


I am building up my Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs to the rims with 291mm spokes on the front brake side and rear drive side, 293 mm for the front drive side, and 292mm for rear brake side. I have them laced and starting to get some tension 1 turn past the bottom of the threads. I suspect they will be the perfect length once tensioned fully. Do you have enough 292mm spokes for 3 sides, or would you be doing 2 sides with each length? If so, you may be 2 mm long on 1 side, but I don't know if that is a problem or not. I can update once I'm fully tensioned in a few days as to whether 2 extra mm would stick through the nipple top.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

I'm getting ready to build my first set of wheels with these carbon rims. My rims just arrived today. I'm reading Roger Musson's e-book about wheel building and in chapter 2, he discusses Rim spoke hole offset and says most rims are such that the hole to the left of the valve hole is higher.
I'm looking at the rims that I received and looks to me like the holes are not offset on these rims and the holes are at a straight line. 
Is this right?


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## [OutCast] (Jan 10, 2011)

I pulled the trigger today ... 

Wider 29er, 3k, gloss
Chris King ISO (black of course)
Sapin Spokes+nips (both black)

Local wheel guys is building them up for me... I wish I had them already.

Throwing them on a Anthem 29er X0. Will post pics once the they parts are in.

I'm 95kgs geared up and ride XC/MBTO


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## [OutCast] (Jan 10, 2011)

Anyone had any issues use tyre levers on these rims?

marking?
cracking?

Thanks in advance


----------



## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

pwu_1 said:


> I'm getting ready to build my first set of wheels with these carbon rims. My rims just arrived today. I'm reading Roger Musson's e-book about wheel building and in chapter 2, he discusses Rim spoke hole offset and says most rims are such that the hole to the left of the valve hole is higher.
> I'm looking at the rims that I received and looks to me like the holes are not offset on these rims and the holes are at a straight line.
> Is this right?


There is no offset on these rims. Don't sweat that detail in the guide.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

albertdc said:


> didn't have the heart to take the wheels back since he kept saying that he has built up Reynolds carbon wheels, etc.


Always keep in mind that a broken watch/clock still gives the correct time twice a day.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

albertdc said:


> @meltingfeather: I was hoping you might respond! :thumbup: Thanks for the detail. I got nervous as I was talking to him, but didn't have the heart to take the wheels back since he kept saying that he has built up Reynolds carbon wheels, etc. I went back this evening though and took them back since he hadn't started on them yet. (I have a post in the Utah section asking for suggestions of who to use.)
> 
> I wish I had the tools to do it myself - lacing them up was fun and it would be cool to finish, but I don't expect to build enough to invest in the tension meter +/- a truing stand. But at least now with numbers in hand, I can vet the next builder better.
> 
> ...


Do them yourself. Just do it slowly. You can use the tone method if you don't have a tension meter...I did for a LONG time. C-flat, or you can tone out a set of built wheels to get a baseline. These steps:
Put some tension on the wheel, true, dish and hop the wheel. 
Then, start doing 1/2 turns on one side, then the other. Then retrue, dish and hop.
Do this twice and start toning. For the rear, the drive side will be more or less C-sharp, and disc side will be C-flat, and for the front the drive side will be C-flat, and disc side will be around C or C-sharp.
Once you think you've got good tone w/ the wheel trued, dished, and hopped, side load the rims to unwind the spokes...lay the wheel flat and lean on the rim to reduce tension on the bottom side spokes so the wind-up will come undone. Retrue and dish as need (hop should be out at this point, but if not, correct for hop too). And, if you touch the spokes on the underside as you side load, you can feel them de-tension. If you're tension/tone is good, they shouldn't give when you side load the wheel. 
I used this method for years until I got the tension meter, and my wheels typically don't need attention for normal trail duties. It takes a bit of time, but prefect for rainy wknds. Just remember to go slow, especially being your 1st wheel build. Oh, do the front one first because the rear takes more abuse and you can use what you learn on the front and apply it on the rear.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

leichtreiter said:


> Just to get that right. They want you to pay for the shipping of the replacement rim? ...and you are OK with that?


No... I wasn't OK with it. My options were pay it and get a new rim or pound sand.



meltingfeather said:


> Not stoked. Not much I can do.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Hopefully the replacement works out.


I received my replacement rim last week. I have been out of town and wanted to post pictures, but will do that later (hopefully tonight).

It looks about like the other two rims I got... will post weight with the pictures, *except* that the spoke holes look like they were drilled by hand by a 6-year-old. Being a woodworker, I know a little something about drilling holes and these were definitely not drilled with a press.

I'd be surprised if a single one of them were round or even symmetrical and at least several have chips in the carbon at the edges of the holes.

*Weak

Ass

Sauce*

You'd think a warranty replacement would get a careful Q/C check, since the customer receiving it has already been burned once. Then again, you'd think all of them would get a carefull Q/C check, but that's obviously not happening.

I'm wondering if I pursue it or just chalk it up to lesson learned and move on.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

ms6073 said:


> Always keep in mind that a broken watch/clock still gives the correct time twice a day.


LOL! True. :thumbsup:

@Pau11y: Thanks for the input. I found that the Park Tool Tension meter is reasonably priced and since my brother is also building a set we are buying it and will tackle the job ourselves. I know that the Park Tool isn't the best meter in the world, but figured that using it along with the tone method we should be able to do a good job. I won't get the tension meter in the mail (can't find one locally) until next week, but I may play with the tone method in the meantime over the weekend and then see how close I am once I get the meter.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

albertdc said:


> LOL! True. :thumbsup:
> 
> @Pau11y: Thanks for the input. I found that the Park Tool Tension meter is reasonably priced and since my brother is also building a set we are buying it and will tackle the job ourselves. I know that the Park Tool isn't the best meter in the world, but figured that using it along with the tone method we should be able to do a good job. I won't get the tension meter in the mail (can't find one locally) until next week, but I may play with the tone method in the meantime over the weekend and then see how close I am once I get the meter.


That Park one will do just fine to get you to the ball park. The side loading and tone should ID any drastic tension discrepancies from spoke to spoke. Good luck and lemme know how it goes :thumbsup:


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> I received my replacement rim last week. I have been out of town and wanted to post pictures, but will do that later (hopefully tonight).
> 
> It looks about like the other two rims I got... will post weight with the pictures, *except* that the spoke holes look like they were drilled by hand by a 6-year-old. Being a woodworker, I know a little something about drilling holes and these were definitely not drilled with a press.
> 
> ...


Wow, that sucks! :madmax: Did you feel that the spoke holes were that bad on the prior rims also, or is this a new issue altogether? Maybe I am not as perceptive, but my rims seemed like the holes themselves were drilled nicely although they were not all exactly perfectly centered (nor were they offset purposefully in a discernible pattern). I am hoping/assuming that the slight imperfection in offset that I saw will not be significant as far as building and function are concerned.

It is very disappointing to hear that the warranty replacement is anything less than perfect. Even worse since you had to pay for the return shipping of the previous defective rim. Did it have the QC sticker one it?

I would at least let them know you are ticked and disappointed and see what they say. If nothing else, they need to know that sloppy drilling gets noticed and is unacceptable.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> I received my replacement rim last week. I have been out of town and wanted to post pictures, but will do that later (hopefully tonight).
> 
> It looks about like the other two rims I got... will post weight with the pictures, *except* that the spoke holes look like they were drilled by hand by a 6-year-old. Being a woodworker, I know a little something about drilling holes and these were definitely not drilled with a press.
> 
> ...


That sucks. I'd pursue it, in fact, I would try to make them pay for shipping both ways since they messed up on the warranty replacement.

None the less, my set has been flawless.



albertdc said:


> LOL! True. :thumbsup:
> 
> @Pau11y: Thanks for the input. I found that the Park Tool Tension meter is reasonably priced and since my brother is also building a set we are buying it and will tackle the job ourselves. I know that the Park Tool isn't the best meter in the world, but figured that using it along with the tone method we should be able to do a good job. I won't get the tension meter in the mail (can't find one locally) until next week, but I may play with the tone method in the meantime over the weekend and then see how close I am once I get the meter.


I've used the park tool tension meter for three builds so far and it is fairly accurate and makes building even tension much easier.


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## Bob12676 (Sep 10, 2008)

None at all. I've been using the cheap blue plastic ParkTool levers and haven't left so much as a dull spot. These rims have been a lot more durable, cosmetically, than I was expecting. I did leave some scratches while lacing them, which left me wondering how they would hold up. If your curious, I have the 3k weave with gloss finish and I've had tires on and off the rims 3 times.



[OutCast] said:


> Anyone had any issues use tyre levers on these rims?
> 
> marking?
> cracking?
> ...


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> It's LD for "large diameter."
> Just FYI :thumbsup:
> 
> Prolocs have glue in them. They come in both hex head and regular. The hex head offers a little convenience at the price of a little weight. Nothin in terms of "torque" or "distortion."
> You do not need a special driver for hex head nipples. They still accept a regular spoke wrench, but that sort of defeats the only benefit.


LD vs LH...yeah, butter fingers...or maybe brain/fingers disconnect 

Torque/distortion: are you telling me 6 points of contact at a larger radius doesn't offer the ability to apply more torque and less chance of distorting the nipple than 2 (or 3 if you want to get technical) at a smaller radius?


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> .
> 
> It looks about like the other two rims I got... will post weight with the pictures, *except* that the spoke holes look like they were drilled by hand by a 6-year-old. Being a woodworker, I know a little something about drilling holes and these were definitely not drilled with a press.
> 
> ...


Dude. You *know* these were made by 6 year-olds!
Sorry, man. Serious bummer.

Los


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Since I know other people are planning on building these wheels with Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs (as I did), I want to be sure that I put this info out there. (I started a thread in the Wheel and Tire section so it will get more general views as well; http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/hope-pro-2-hope-pro-2-evo-hub-measurements-look-here-809590.html) The measurements that are commonly found and "out there on the web" for the Hope II hubs are different than the current Hope Pro II and Hope Pro II EVO hubs. I got the PDF with the correct measurements from Hope customer service and confirmed them with callipers. They are:

Rear hub: 
Spoke PCD: Left 56, Right 54; Offset: Left 33, Right 20

Front hub
Spoke PCD: Left 56, Right 54; Offset: Left 20, Right 33

Spoke hole diameter per the support rep is 2.6mm.

Here is the chart they sent me. The Hope Pro 2 and Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs have the same measurements....

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12545724/20...fsetandpcd.pdf

Edited: fixed front hub measurement...


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> I received my replacement rim last week. I have been out of town and wanted to post pictures, but will do that later (hopefully tonight).
> 
> It looks about like the other two rims I got... will post weight with the pictures, *except* that the spoke holes look like they were drilled by hand by a 6-year-old. Being a woodworker, I know a little something about drilling holes and these were definitely not drilled with a press.
> 
> ...


Who did you get your wheels from?


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

I just picked mine up from the shop. Wider rims, 3k, matte finish. AC hubs, black sapim spokes, dt black locking nips. R:795, F:675. 1470 grams total. Will be using Stan's tape and valves. I am just waiting for a headset for my frame. Lenz Mammoth. Will build it up and than ride the snot out of it.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I read to page 64 then skipped through the rest as it was 2am and had to get up for work! I will go back and read the rest but I'm looking at purchasing some today so want a quick answer. I noticed that in the last 30 pages people seemed to be getting various fails on these rims, is the general feeling that these are still good rims and worth putting on your bike or are they showing signs of not being up to the job? Also can anyone tell me if in normal light you can see the different sections on the UD matte finish as really can't choose between the 3K or UD finish.
Regards in advance for replies.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Mine were just shipped this weekend. Took 4 weeks. My B-day is Saturday, not sure if they'll make it.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Lenny7 said:


> Mine were just shipped this weekend. Took 4 weeks. My B-day is Saturday, not sure if they'll make it.


Mine left China on a Sat. 1st delivery attempt was Tues. Should leave you plenty enough time to get them built for a B-day ride, yeah? :thumbsup:


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

ruscle said:


> ... so want a quick answer...... is the general feeling that these are still good rims and worth putting on your bike.? Also can anyone tell me if in normal light you can see the different sections on the UD matte finish as really can't choose between the 3K or UD finish.
> ..


Still a good deal....get the 3K, they could be a lil stronger because of that cosmetic last layer..
.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

scottay said:


> Still a good deal....get the 3K, they could be a lil stronger because of that cosmetic last layer..
> .


Cheers for answer and good timing as was just pondering on the email I was sending 'Nancy' for my order. Also confirmed my choice I was swaying towards.:thumbsup:


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

PSA...do not buy a frame from Xiamen/Light Bicycle. I bought a carbon 29er hardtail frame and not only have they delivered an unusable pos, they won't remake a good one-literally saying on web chat "we cannot guarantee the head tube spec to within the.1mm spec, and we have much to learn about frame making-please go buy from Honfu". 

They offered a refund only upon me paying to ship back to them, and the Honfu frame they say is identical btw (even say same molds), is much more money. I am calling my cc company. 

The problems with the frame are: top head tube was .37mm oversize (bearing slops around), the rear dropout/derailleur hanger area is totally wonky and would require a lot of work to get right, the rear brake mounts are full of carbon and matte clear coat (not faced). Could have lived with the last two, but not the head tube. They won't replace because they can't promise one within spec! That's like selling frames that can't be guaranteed to have a seat tube that is big enough to accept the seat post it was designed for. 

Not good and their response to the problem has been disappointing. Buyer beware.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Thanks for the PSA. I got a carbon Lurcher from On One when they were $400ish, they're a good low price carbon alternate.
.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

ruscle said:


> Also can anyone tell me if in normal light you can see the different sections on the UD matte finish as really can't choose between the 3K or UD finish.


I cant comment on your question but I did want to mention that I was informed last week that Light-Bicycle is currently focusing efforts on 3K rim production and that ordering a UD Matte finish for rims would take a much longer time than 3k matte.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I have been chatting to them, they only have 2 matte UD rims in stock, and can only make the 3K rims between 370g-380g as everyone wants them to weigh as little as possible. I'm talking about the 26ers not 29ers


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## rl.robertson (Jul 14, 2011)

Got it! It can be done!! The light bike rims ERD are within about 1mm of the Roval Control SL.. Was able to recycle the spokes. I don't have perfectly "matching" rims, but I can buy 4 Nancy rims for one Roval. The 29er 3k matte came in at 401grams, making it 28 grams heavier than my stock Roval. This should put my wheel set weight at 1428 grams. Now if the trails will dry up- rains every time I get something new!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Then again....*



albertdc said:


> Since I know other people are planning on building these wheels with Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs (as I did), I want to be sure that I put this info out there. (I started a thread in the Wheel and Tire section so it will get more general views as well; http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/hope-pro-2-hope-pro-2-evo-hub-measurements-look-here-809590.html) The measurements that are commonly found and "out there on the web" for the Hope II hubs are different than the current Hope Pro II and Hope Pro II EVO hubs. I got the PDF with the correct measurements from Hope customer service and confirmed them with callipers. They are:
> 
> Rear hub:
> Spoke PCD: Left 56, Right 54; Offset: Left 33, Right 20
> ...


I say always measure the hubs anyway. I found sometimes the published measurements are way off of reality. Sometimes ther is a production change that does not make it to the chart, and then you're hosed. It takes like 5 minutes to actually measure it with a cheap plastic caliper, pencil and paper. I found two cases where the published drawing was wrong.


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## hefeweizan (Aug 24, 2011)

From all the posts, whom do you recommend carbon 29er rims???


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

> Got it! It can be done!! The light bike rims ERD are within about 1mm of the Roval Control SL.. Was able to recycle the spokes. I don't have perfectly "matching" rims, but I can buy 4 Nancy rims for one Roval. The 29er 3k matte came in at 401grams, making it 28 grams heavier than my stock Roval. This should put my wheel set weight at 1428 grams. Now if the trails will dry up- rains every time I get something new!


Looks good. What happened to the roval rim?


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## rl.robertson (Jul 14, 2011)

crclawn said:


> Looks good. What happened to the roval rim?


I was doing a pre-ride for a race in Dallas. My rear tire started feeling "flat" so I stopped to investigate.. found a crack in the carbon rim. I bought the set used off a fellow racer, so it's looking like a no go with Specialized warranty. I was running my rear at 28 psi, with a 1.9 renegade.. With my Nancy Rims, I put a 2.0 Fast Trak, and I'll run it at 31 psi. All I can figure out is a rock strike based on how it looks. Hopefully these will survive. I've never had any problems, and I have raced on Stans 355 / Industry Nine Ultralights.



hefeweizan said:


> From all the posts, whom do you recommend carbon 29er rims???


If this carbon rim turns out to be durable- I think it's worthwhile for anybody wanting a performance wheel set. They are lighter, and definitely stiffer than the equivalent weight alloy rims. If I keep busting hoops, then I'll probably have to go back alloy on grounds of cost.


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## armara (Mar 19, 2011)

albertdc said:


> I am building up my Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs to the rims with 291mm spokes on the front brake side and rear drive side, 293 mm for the front drive side, and 292mm for rear brake side. I have them laced and starting to get some tension 1 turn past the bottom of the threads. I suspect they will be the perfect length once tensioned fully. Do you have enough 292mm spokes for 3 sides, or would you be doing 2 sides with each length? If so, you may be 2 mm long on 1 side, but I don't know if that is a problem or not. I can update once I'm fully tensioned in a few days as to whether 2 extra mm would stick through the nipple top.
> 
> Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


Thanks albertdc,

The spokes on the wheels at the moment have 32 x 292mm and 32 x 294mm. I was thinking I should just buy new Hope Pro EVO hubs, spokes and nipples. This will only cost $370 extra. This will cost me $730 for the wheel set. I will then have a spare wheel set if needed.

I can only order the spokes I was looking at (DT Swiss Competition Stainless DB Spokes Black 2mm-1.8mm) in even mm; do you think I should buy all 192mm? I am using DT Swiss Anodized 2mm x 12mm Alloy Nipples.

How have yours tensioned up?

Thanks,
Mark


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Up to 450 miles on mine with no problems. Can't imagine going back to AL ever again!


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

ShralpSauce said:


> I have 29" 28H wide rims for sale. New and never used. Ad is posted here.


Bump!  Whoever bought these, I have a nice two nice 28-hole front hubs for them.... Hope 20mm (convertible to 9mm and 15mm) and DT 190 9mm.... use the email link in my profile.

P.S. I already paid for an ad... but has since gone to expire land.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

armara said:


> Thanks albertdc,
> 
> ...
> I can only order the spokes I was looking at (DT Swiss Competition Stainless DB Spokes Black 2mm-1.8mm) in even mm; do you think I should buy all 192mm? I am using DT Swiss Anodized 2mm x 12mm Alloy Nipples.
> ...


I am still waiting for my tension meter to arrive. I worked on the front a little over the weekend going by tone and feel and have things fairly tensioned and trued...but I wanted to err on undertensioned rather than over because I don't want to crack the Carbon. As of now, I think 292 would be OK even where I used 291, but if I need to turn more than another full turn or so, then the spoke would definitely stick up past the screwdriver slot if it was a 292. I have never built wheels before, so I can't tell for sure, but wonder whether you might be better off using 290 where I used 291 (front brake side, rear drive side) and then 292 on the other 2 flanges (where I used 292 and 293). 
I'll update more once I've tensioned further.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

albertdc said:


> I am still waiting for my tension meter to arrive. I worked on the front a little over the weekend going by tone and feel and have things fairly tensioned and trued...but I wanted to err on undertensioned rather than over because I don't want to crack the Carbon. As of now, I think 292 would be OK even where I used 291, but if I need to turn more than another full turn or so, then the spoke would definitely stick up past the screwdriver slot if it was a 292. I have never built wheels before, so I can't tell for sure, but wonder whether you might be better off using 290 where I used 291 (front brake side, rear drive side) and then 292 on the other 2 flanges (where I used 292 and 293).
> I'll update more once I've tensioned further.


Spokes poking thru the nipple head is okay if you have the room...and these rims have plenty of room. I'd be more concerned about running out of threads vs too much spoke on the other side, with in reason of course.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

oops...double (mobile) post :/


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> Spokes poking thru the nipple head is okay if you have the room...and these rims have plenty of room. I'd be more concerned about running out of threads vs too much spoke on the other side, with in reason of course.


^^this

Ideal spoke length is the ends of the spokes between the bottom of the slot and the end of the nipple.


----------



## hefeweizan (Aug 24, 2011)

Any experiences with carbon rims on I9's???


----------



## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Some guys on here have done it. Its an even swap for Flows. I9 will lace them up if you send them carbon rims..
.


----------



## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

hefeweizan said:


> Any experiences with carbon rims on I9's???


Just read back a few pages...

The rim performance on I9 hubs are no different than LB rims on CK hubs.


----------



## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

armara said:


> Thanks albertdc,
> 
> The spokes on the wheels at the moment have 32 x 292mm and 32 x 294mm. I was thinking I should just buy new Hope Pro EVO hubs, spokes and nipples. This will only cost $370 extra. This will cost me $730 for the wheel set. I will then have a spare wheel set if needed.
> 
> ...


Tensioned my wheels last night. Went great. Can't wait to tape, mount, and ride them, but unfortunately that won't be until next week because we are away camping this weekend. :madman:
Update on spoke lengths: I used 291mm spokes on the front brake side and rear drive side, 293 mm for the front drive side, and 292mm for rear brake side. All the spoke get close to the deep part of the screwdriver indent on the inside of the nipple, but none actually go past the bottom of that slot. In other words, do not go any shorter than what I did based on what meltingfeather and Pau11y both said. So I think 292 for the front drive side (where I used 293) would not be ideal. 294 there would be fine, as would 294 on the rear brake side. 292 where I used 291 would be great. That way half of your spokes are 292 and the other half are 294 which works out nicely when buying packages. If the numbers work out, you could do 292 for 3 flanges and 294 for the last flange as well. (.....oh, and again, YMMV considering this is my first wheel build, so I hope I'm not steering you wrong! ).


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

albertdc said:


> Tensioned my wheels last night. Went great. Can't wait to tape, mount, and ride them, but unfortunately that won't be until next week because we are away camping this weekend. :madman:
> Update on spoke lengths: I used 291mm spokes on the front brake side and rear drive side, 293 mm for the front drive side, and 292mm for rear brake side. All the spoke get close to the deep part of the screwdriver indent on the inside of the nipple, but none actually go past the bottom of that slot. In other words, do not go any shorter than what I did based on what meltingfeather and Pau11y both said. So I think 292 for the front drive side (where I used 293) would not be ideal. 294 there would be fine, as would 294 on the rear brake side. 292 where I used 291 would be great. That way half of your spokes are 292 and the other half are 294 which works out nicely when buying packages. If the numbers work out, you could do 292 for 3 flanges and 294 for the last flange as well. (.....oh, and again, YMMV considering this is my first wheel build, so I hope I'm not steering you wrong! ).


I cheaped out... 
On a set of Kings, the DT Swiss spoke calc gave me anywhere from mid 290.x to high 292.x. So, I just split the diff and got 291 Comps. There are no threads showing inside the nipple wrench flats and no spoke poking out the nipple heads...
Like I had mentioned before, if a heavier rim was requested, there should be +1mm added to the spoke calc. I coulda used 292s in my case, but 291s worked, when everything was tensioned up...luckily!


----------



## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

See post # 1902.....used 292's all around on Pro 2 hubs. So far , so good.
.
.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Just finished my build*

My rims came in Monday.

Front is Lefty and Sapim Race with 12mm brass nipples left = 292 right 294 it's 752g with no strips installed.

Rear is DT Swiss 240s with Sapim Race and 12mm brass nipples 292 both sides 858g with no strips installed.

Has just a bit of trouble with the lefty build, just me being dumb though. They build with nice even tension and very true.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

albertdc said:


> In other words, do not go any shorter than what I did based on what meltingfeather and Pau11y both said. So I think 292 for the front drive side (where I used 293) would not be ideal.


Huh?
"What I said" where?


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## Beerglass (Aug 29, 2012)

When domth


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Huh?
> "What I said" where?


Based on what you said a few posts back:



meltingfeather said:


> ^^this
> 
> Ideal spoke length is the ends of the spokes between the bottom of the slot and the end of the nipple.


Combine that with my observation that with my current spoke lengths, using the hubs and rims that he is intending on using, I don't quite get to the bottom of slot, I came to the statement of "do not go any shorter than what I did..."

Did not intend on having it sound like you directly said not to go shorter, but rather based on your and Pau11y statements of the correct spoke length within the nipple, and the observation of where my spokes ended after tensions, I was coming to that conclusion.

Hope that clarifies things and was correct.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

albertdc said:


> Based on what you said a few posts back:
> 
> Combine that with my observation that with my current spoke lengths, using the hubs and rims that he is intending on using, I don't quite get to the bottom of slot, I came to the statement of "do not go any shorter than what I did..."
> 
> ...


10-4
No big deal. Somehow it sounded to me like you were saying, "don't go shorter like MF said to."
:arf:


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Hit the 1000mi mark on my LBC rims, wide 29 matte UD finish. Still going strong.


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## rl.robertson (Jul 14, 2011)

First ride was great... Felt identical to the roval sl's. Rode a very rocky/technical trail, hitting just over 29 mph top speed. So glad they are selling these direct!


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Got mine yesterday. I wish I would have ordered the 3k and not the ud, so they would look a little cleaner. Look good though.
Anyone order an extra rim? I think I may order a spare. This will be my only wheelset and if I break one I don't want to have to wait another month to replace it. If you have stans you can get a new one in three days. Not these.


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

TwoTone said:


> You should place a classified per forum rules


Thanks for the negative rep....I did place an ad per forum rules, and was just trying to let people that are interested in these wheels know. :madman:


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## rl.robertson (Jul 14, 2011)

Lenny7 said:


> Got mine yesterday. I wish I would have ordered the 3k and not the ud, so they would look a little cleaner. Look good though.
> Anyone order an extra rim? I think I may order a spare. This will be my only wheelset and if I break one I don't want to have to wait another month to replace it. If you have stans you can get a new one in three days. Not these.


I was debating on doing the same- also for fear that they may stop producing these directly for end user. If that happens the price will be much higher. But then again that's alot of money hanging on the wall..


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

Lenny7 said:


> Got mine yesterday. I wish I would have ordered the 3k and not the ud, so they would look a little cleaner. Look good though.
> Anyone order an extra rim? I think I may order a spare. This will be my only wheelset and if I break one I don't want to have to wait another month to replace it. If you have stans you can get a new one in three days. Not these.


I keep telling myself to order a spare and I never do. Everyone I know that has them have yet to encounter a problem so it's hard to get motivated. Maybe I'll piggy back a spare next time a friend orders a pair (prob Tony ha!)


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Yeah, it would be cheaper to get an old beater wheelset off craigslist and use that while ordering a new one... if something happens to one.


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## mdcrisp (Mar 22, 2010)

*anyone have pics of their heavy 29er UD matte rims*

I am wondering what the finish looks like and how they turned out built up


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## Jordya (Sep 15, 2009)

After lots of reading on this very interesting topic, I am seeing mostly light/middleweight riders on the Nancy rims. Anyone give these a try in the 240# class? I am asking "for a friend"


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## oldm8 (Dec 6, 2011)

Anyone got a set of 26" wide rims made to around the 450 gram mark? Thinking about getting one and seeing how it goes on the back of the dh bike.


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

hefeweizan said:


> Any experiences with carbon rims on I9's???


I have over 500 hard miles on my set. I ride a mix of CC and all mountain. I had the hoops shpped directly to I9 and they built them for me. After about 100 miles I had me LBS check the spoke tension and nothing needed to be changed everything was perfect. They are still true and very stiff. I love these wheels. I do run them tubless and setup was easy.


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

anyone know what the novatec engagement is like? and if they're the same crappy hubs spec'd on the specialized bikes this year, i'm not interested...


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

"Fred" said:


> I have over 500 hard miles on my set. I ride a mix of CC and all mountain. I had the hoops shpped directly to I9 and they built them for me.
> 
> *I'm courious, what was the total cost to have i9 build the set? *


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## Leigh2612 (Aug 20, 2012)

Finally read through all this....subscribed to see how they all turn out!!


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Got the despatch note for my 26ers. Weights are 371g and 379g for the 3K wider rims. How has everyones normal weight 29er rims been holding up? I wanted a little bit more weight in them but not overly concerned as weigh around 83kg ready to ride with pack on.I'm building them up using Sapim cx-ray spokes, brass nipples and I'm using the Sapim HM nipple washers to help with the strength around the nipple holes. 
I'm not the smoothest of riders so require them to take a little rough treatment from me on my Yeti ASR-5 with 140mm forks. How do people think they will fare, would I need to be a little more careful than normal or just keep ploughing on!!


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Jordya said:


> After lots of reading on this very interesting topic, I am seeing mostly light/middleweight riders on the Nancy rims. Anyone give these a try in the 240# class? I am asking "for a friend"


I am 240 in my birthday suit. I have a 2 sets of these rims both 32hole, a heavy duty clyde layup on my SS bike and a normal set on my Tallboy. I have about 400 miles combined on the wheels and have not had any problems. I built both sets myself as my first wheel builds ever, could not be happier. Granted I am not hucking big jumps, but I am not afraid to leave the ground on my normal XC rides. If there is a log, jump, rock I will hit it.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

Mine have shipped today:

2pcs wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) (32, Matte, UD) (close to 400g)

Ordered on the 13th of August. I've got the hubs at home (DTSwiss 240s), but am still awaiting delivery of the spokes and nipples (sigh) - they're supercomps and alloy respectively. 

It's my first wheel build - i'm looking forward to the challenge!


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## "Fred" (Sep 20, 2008)

Simplemind said:


> "Fred" said:
> 
> 
> > I have over 500 hard miles on my set. I ride a mix of CC and all mountain. I had the hoops shpped directly to I9 and they built them for me.
> ...


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## jps (Feb 7, 2005)

*spoke length?*

Hey Broadwayline, just wondering if you could tell me the spoke lengths you used for your build. I am expecting my rims this week and need to get my DT Revo spokes, already have my AC hubs. Thanks!



broadwayline said:


> Just finished building up some 29" wide rims with DT Revo spokes, DT Alu nipples, and American Classic hubs - came out to 1430g flat.
> 
> STOKED!
> 
> They are also almost perfectly true without any spoke tension, impressive.


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## ChristianHuige (Mar 26, 2012)

Hah...I just noticed Light-Bicycle holds an activity of sending greeting cards for free. I asked for one. Looking forward...


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Question for those of you that are using the Bontrager Rhythm strips. 
Have you tried letting all the air out of your tire after the bead is seated in the bead channel? Does the bead pop back out into the center channel once the pressure gets low enough?

Reason I'm asking is because I just finished setting up my 26 inch version using the rhythm strips and I"m finding that when the air is let out the bead pops back into the center channel. The tire actually makes the poping sound like when you get the bead to seat except this is when it is going the other way. On all my other tubeless set-ups, even when all the air is let out, the bead stays firmly in the bead channel unless you push it out with your hand. 

I'm slightly concerned that the bead is not really "locked-in" to the bead channel.

The tires I'm using are new Nobby Nics(2.4 and 2.25)


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> Question for those of you that are using the Bontrager Rhythm strips.
> Have you tried letting all the air out of your tire after the bead is seated in the bead channel? Does the bead pop back out into the center channel once the pressure gets low enough?
> 
> Reason I'm asking is because I just finished setting up my 26 inch version using the rhythm strips and I"m finding that when the air is let out the bead pops back into the center channel. The tire actually makes the poping sound like when you get the bead to seat except this is when it is going the other way. On all my other tubeless set-ups, even when all the air is let out, the bead stays firmly in the bead channel unless you push it out with your hand.
> ...


I just did yesterday (cored my valve) to shoot some more Stan's goo in... no popping out of the bead seat. I'm on 29er, wider, heavies w/ Conti TK 2.4 folders...non-ust tires (which is why I needed to add more goo...porous sidewalls).


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

jps said:


> Hey Broadwayline, just wondering if you could tell me the spoke lengths you used for your build. I am expecting my rims this week and need to get my DT Revo spokes, already have my AC hubs. Thanks!


I used a mix of 291 292 and 293 using this calc and a 603 erd

#1 Wheel Building SPOKE CALCULATOR Now Online | PROWHEELBUILDER

:thumbsup:


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> Question for those of you that are using the Bontrager Rhythm strips.
> Have you tried letting all the air out of your tire after the bead is seated in the bead channel? Does the bead pop back out into the center channel once the pressure gets low enough?
> 
> Reason I'm asking is because I just finished setting up my 26 inch version using the rhythm strips and I"m finding that when the air is let out the bead pops back into the center channel. The tire actually makes the poping sound like when you get the bead to seat except this is when it is going the other way. On all my other tubeless set-ups, even when all the air is let out, the bead stays firmly in the bead channel unless you push it out with your hand.
> ...


My tires did this when new to the point I had to use a tube to get bead seated. After a few weeks of riding the bead now stays in place with no air. I figure stiffness of new tires and wide width of the rim are prime explanations.

On related note - I've run down to 18-20psi with no burping, but I got some rim strikes so upped pressure to mid twenties. I think these are very good rims for tubeless conversion.


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## [OutCast] (Jan 10, 2011)

Has anyone been able to use nipple washers with their rims? Got pics?


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Seated a used Racing Ralph 2.25 and a used Bontrager X-0 lastnight on mine - used gorilla tape to seal them (similar to what ENVE uses).

Would not seat with a floor pump, had to use a CO2 blast and then they seated up and held air fine :thumbsup:

The extra rim width really helped with the tire profile and it seems like I am going to have more grip now vs the Crest/Arch combo I had on before.


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## rl.robertson (Jul 14, 2011)

I've got around 80 miles on mine now in 2 weeks, and still no issues with only the Stans yellow tape- I've been riding some very rocky trails, and these wheels are still going strong. Rides just like the carbon Roval that it replaced.


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## jps (Feb 7, 2005)

*Thanks.....*

Thanks for the info....



broadwayline said:


> I used a mix of 291 292 and 293 using this calc and a 603 erd
> 
> #1 Wheel Building SPOKE CALCULATOR Now Online | PROWHEELBUILDER
> 
> :thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

jps said:


> Thanks for the info....


Be careful with the Wheelbuilder calc. It does behind-the-scenes adjustments that it does not disclose and errs on the short side, IIRC. I'll run the numbers in my own calc and follow up.
Read the disclaimer they put on it. Even better, use the simple equation they claim the calc is based on (thy provide a link) and run the numbers yourself and you'll see that there is something fishy.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Be careful with the Wheelbuilder calc. It does behind-the-scenes adjustments that it does not disclose and errs on the short side, IIRC. I'll run the numbers in my own calc and follow up.
> Read the disclaimer they put on it. Even better, use the simple equation they claim the calc is based on (thy provide a link) and run the numbers yourself and you'll see that there is something fishy.


DT Swiss Spoke Calculator

Since I pretty much use their spokes exclusively...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> DT Swiss Spoke Calculator
> 
> Since I pretty much use their spokes exclusively...


Or that. :thumbsup:

The DT Swiss calc shows you all the inputs and is reproducible to the 0.01 mm, no matter what spokes you use.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Or that. :thumbsup:
> 
> The DT Swiss calc shows you all the inputs and is reproducible to the 0.01 mm, no matter what spokes you use.


And...the calc can give you weights if you have hub and rim data. Okay, not a big deal, but still nice to have when you're designing/spec-ing a wheel build.


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## tennessee17 (Oct 26, 2004)

Just an FYI. I decided to order a set of rims from Bike Empowerment today. Less than 10 minutes after placing my order, I received a refund email from Paypal. Chris from BE replied quicky to my email, stating he only had one wide rim left and most likely would not be ordering more due to pricing reasons. He was very nice and apologetic, and deserves high praise for prompt service and reply to my follow up inquiries. 

I'm waiting for feedback from Nancy to see if the rims I desire are in stock before ordering direct from LB.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

Jubas said:


> Mine have shipped today:
> 
> 2pcs wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) (32, Matte, UD) (close to 400g)
> 
> ...


And.... they've arrived in Sydney. Not bad overall if you ask me.

If only i could say the same for the spokes coming from Germany. I swear DHL (not-express) has to be the slowest logistics company ever.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

nope


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Advantageous Middleman*



tennessee17 said:


> Just an FYI. I decided to order a set of rims from Bike Empowerment today. Less than 10 minutes after placing my order, I received a refund email from Paypal. Chris from BE replied quicky to my email, stating he only had one wide rim left and most likely would not be ordering more due to pricing reasons. He was very nice and apologetic, and deserves high praise for prompt service and reply to my follow up inquiries.
> 
> I'm waiting for feedback from Nancy to see if the rims I desire are in stock before ordering direct from LB.


Chris, though nice to deal with, was just another middleman in the process. He actually did not build his own wheels, but took them to a bike shop. So you had to pay for the rims, which he charged more for, the build of the wheels, plus the cost of his service (essentially a courier service).

You can buy the same rims from Bikeman and have them build the wheels for cheaper.

OR

You can have the rims shipped to you and have your local shop build them.

OR

You can have the rims shipped to you and have a friend build them.

OR

You can have the rims shipped to you and you try to build them.


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

Had a rear wide rim start to crack/delaminate. Not a rock strike or otherwise crash damage. Still holding air and pretty true, but don't trust it and won't ride it again. Pics will be forthcoming and going to email Nancy for a replacement. Hope they do the right thing.


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)




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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

argibson said:


> Had a rear wide rim start to crack/delaminate. Not a rock strike or otherwise crash damage. Still holding air and pretty true, but don't trust it and won't ride it again. Pics will be forthcoming and going to email Nancy for a replacement. Hope they do the right thing.


Is it me or does your photo seem to show the outer cosmetic layer separating from the bottom (core?) of the rim? Anyway, please update your warranty efforts w/ Nancy...and good luck!


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

Hey all, thanks for the entertaining thread, i've been following it for the last 2 months.

I've been building wheels for 15 years and am the head wheel builder at Go-Ride.com. I have learned a great deal about carbon wheels over the last year with ENVE being local to us. I've laced up 10 sets of them so far. They are excellent. Easy to build, straight, and don't seem to go out of true.

I decided to go with Light-Bicycle rims for my Yeti SB 95 29er trailbike since the rims are lighter, cheaper, and possibly more compliant since they are a more shallow shape. Nancy and Brian were good to deal with and answered all of my questions with pics of product and options. After i put in my order for matte UD 29 Wider rims, i switched to 12k since they had them in stock. They had a set that are 377 and 388g so i went with those. They did indeed show up in 4 days.

They laced up really well. They are straight, have no defects and look beautiful. I went with 32 DT Aerolite bladed spokes to save maximum weight and hopefully get more ride compliance. I also went 2x lacing pattern, shorter is lighter. With King hubs (large front) they came out to 1605g!!!!! The only real drawback i came across is that the carbon is so thick, and the spoke holes are drilled straight. This causes the nipple to come out straight as well and cannot follow the angle of the spoke. This causes more load on the nipple. Since the nipple drags against the carbon hole the nips feel tight which makes tension feel really high early on in the build but that is not the case. I used the tension meter many times throughout the tensioning process. I ended up at 120kg on the tightest side of the wheels.










On to the Ride!
To put things simply, i am totally blown away. They are so stiff that they feel virtually rigid. Now, i am only 130 lbs so i don't typically complain about wheel flex. I have been using Notubes Arch EX and Notubes Flow and Notubes Flow EX rims in 29 this season. I didn't care for the Arch EX thinking they were too narrow and i wanted a better footprint. Perhaps it was the flex as much as the rounded tire profile i was disliking. The Flow feels good but it's so slow and heavy. The LB Wider's are extremely fast, and unbelievably stiff. Even with the bladed spokes they may be stiffer in the steering department than i need. My tires feel too hard now and i'm not sure going lower in pressure will work out. They do feel good over rocky ground. The vertical compliance feels good. Overall this may be the ideal weight/stiffness/profile for everyday XC/AM. I would like to try 28 spokes, but i already had 32h Kings on hand.










The wheels set up tubeless fairly well. I started with Notubes Yellow Tape. The Schwalbe tires were a little loose, so i switched out for Gorilla Tape. I may add one more layer if i get any burping since the fit is still not quite as tight as Notubes rims are.

I'm off to Moab to ride The Whole Enchilada...i will KNOW if these wheels are going to cut it in 24 hours! Will report back!!

Krispy


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

Pau11y said:


> Is it me or does your photo seem to show the outer cosmetic layer separating from the bottom (core?) of the rim? Anyway, please update your warranty efforts w/ Nancy...and good luck!


Indeed appears to be the case. Was running a fat xc/trail tire and 35lbs of pressure. Looks like a defect. I will update y'all with my warranty experience.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Hey all, thanks for the entertaining thread, i've been following it for the last 2 months.
> 
> I've been building wheels for 15 years and am the head wheel builder at Go-Ride.com. I have learned a great deal about carbon wheels over the last year with ENVE being local to us. I've laced up 10 sets of them so far. They are excellent. Easy to build, straight, and don't seem to go out of true.
> 
> ...


Totally recommend the Bontrager rim strip with Schwalbe tires. Totally bulletproof mounting with a floor pump and great performance for me tubeless around 20 psi.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> They did indeed show up in 4 days.


Nice, wish ours would get delivered. Brian got them out a week ago Tuesday and processed through the USPS sort facility at ISC NEW YORK NY on 9/2/12 and have now been shown with the status 'inbound to customs' since that date.


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

*Science Night*

How to fix a cracked CCC Rim -

1. Crush bead hook during Trestle Enduro
2. Notice a month later
3. Call Bortis
4. Tap kegs
5. Fix rim
5a. Apply faux carbon sticker NOT OPTIONAL


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

JMH said:


> How to fix a cracked CCC Rim -
> 
> 1. Crush bead hook during Trestle Enduro
> 2. Notice a month later
> ...


6. Beat repaired rim in southern UT desert for remainder of season
7. Repeat steps 1-5 as needed until complete failure or until $/abuse ratio justifies replacement CCC rim.

Also, the second step 5 is optional.

BY


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

Try more than 18 psi, bend your knees, or put on some clips


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> 6. Beat repaired rim in southern UT desert for remainder of season
> 7. Repeat steps 1-5 as needed until complete failure or until $/abuse ratio justifies replacement CCC rim.
> 
> Also, step 5 is optional.
> ...


Did you banged up yours already, or are you just being cheeky?


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Try more than 18 psi, bend your knees, or put on some clips


30 PSI in a Hans Dampf, I weigh 170 in my Show Gear. That's plenty of PSI but maybe not enough to completely eliminate the possibility of a rim strike. Your diminutive-stature results may vary.

I thank Our Lord And Provider Sweet Baby Jesus that I still had those faux-3k stickers.

JMH


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Did you banged up yours already, or are you just being cheeky?


That's JMH's rim. He's been beating on them most of the summer. Nothing a little structural adhesive (Hysol EA 9394) couldn't fix... or at least make "good enough"...

New materials mean we get to learn new ways of fixing and bandaiding things. Used to be that when you dented an AL rim, you'd use a wrench and pry out the dent and re-true as much as possible, and then ride it as long as possible. JMH and I are thinking it's time to test out bandaid repair techniques for carbon stuff. There is a lot of material in these rims, and aside from a major explosion, it should be feasible that these bandaid style repairs may be more than sufficient. Time will tell...

BY


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

JMH said:


> 30 PSI in a Hans Dampf, I weigh 170. That's plenty of PSI but maybe not enough to completely eliminate the possibility of a rim strike. Your diminutive-stature results may vary.
> 
> I thank Our Lord And Provider Sweet Baby Jesus that I still had those faux-3k stickers.
> 
> JMH


32/34 psi frt/rr for me... I'm 195 kitted up, and I play in the rocks at speed a lot. I'm also running those meaty Conti 2.4 TKs (1100g/ea). As "cheap" as these rims are, $165 is not exactly chump change. So, I try to err on the side of protecting the rims.


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> 32/34 psi frt/rr for me... I'm 195 kitted up, and I play in the rocks at speed a lot. I'm also running those meaty Conti 2.4 TKs (1100g/ea). As "cheap" as these rims are, $165 is not exactly chump change. So, I try to err on the side of protecting the rims.


Indeed. I've not babied these in the least and to only have one rock strike after months of Whistler, Winter Park and Deer Valley/Crest trail abuse is fine with me and indicates that tire pressure is good.

Of note - the bead hook was crushed and cracked fairly dramatically but the wheel remained true and the tire did not lose air. That's a nice thing. I rode it at Trestle last weekend before the repair and had a great time.

On a more serious note - I will be selling scraps of Faux 3K Weave stickers for a reasonable price, contact me via your Online Representative and mention MTBR for a price penalty.

JMH


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

I pumped mine up to 40psi (have not been ridden yet) to make sure the bead was seated and heard an odd creaking noise, might have been the nipples seating in the holes - checked for any defects or cracks as a result on the outside and saw nothing.

Hope all is good !


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## dutchct (Mar 19, 2010)

Thought I'd post mine. 26" 3k wider laced up to I9 enduro hubs (20mm front, 142 x12 rear). Used the previous spokes as the i9 enduro rim has an erd 540 vs 536 for the LB rim. Close enough and threaded up real nice.

List of weights:

i9 wheel weights: f:833g r: 1030g

i9 rim weight: f:509g r:509g

i9 hub: f:198g r:383g

spokes: f:135g r:134g

carbon rim weights: f:374g r:378g

carbon wheel weights: f: 705g r: 892g

total i9: 1863g

total carbon: 1597g

heading out to whistler tomorrow. should be a good test. hopefully i don't eat ****.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

dutchct said:


> Thought I'd post mine. 26" 3k wider laced up to I9 enduro hubs (20mm front, 142 x12 rear). Used the previous spokes as the i9 enduro rim has an erd 540 vs 536 for the LB rim. Close enough and threaded up real nice.
> 
> List of weights:
> 
> ...


You will be very impressed with the lateral stiffness/ tracking and vertical high speed vibration dampening qualities of the carbon. I too, have mine laced to I-9 hubs and original aluminum spokes. So impressed am I that all wrist/ hand numbness has completely gone away on the carbon rims (per my earlier post). Just wish they were easier to mount, but at a buck thirty a piece, I can live a few compromises (vs Enve at
$ 800+ per rim), no brainer.Think of it as a China trade agreement that Obama is incapable of.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> wanted to post pictures, but will do that later


My warranty replacement rim is 382.2g

Here's what the chipped holes look like:









Here's what the non-chipped holes look like (no two are alike):










meltingfeather said:


> I'm wondering if I pursue it or just chalk it up to lesson learned and move on.


figuring lesson learned. it might work out totally different if I bought another pair, but I won't be finding out. I'm just going to ride the hell out of these until I can't anymore.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

ms6073 said:


> Nice, wish ours would get delivered. Brian got them out a week ago Tuesday and processed through the USPS sort facility at ISC NEW YORK NY on 9/2/12 and have now been shown with the status 'inbound to customs' since that date.


Mine are stuck in customs as well. Not too happy. This is my third set. Took LB over a month to actually manufacture/send them rims and now this added delay is a pain in the a$$.


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

I'm getting close to 2 months on my warranty claim for cracks at the spoke holes. Light Bikes has really drug thier feet on mine. They were alot quicker on communication when I was placing my order.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

subscribed


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

I ordered a pair of 88mm deep road wheels which they had to make from new - apparently the delay is only on 29er wheels as these were made and shipped in 6 days.

I believe LB just has supply issues with the 29 wheels as the demand is so high on them, they most likely only have a few moulds and can't make them fast enough.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*yeah....*



meltingfeather said:


> My warranty replacement rim is 382.2g
> 
> _*spoke hole pics*_
> 
> figuring lesson learned. it might work out totally different if I bought another pair, but I won't be finding out. I'm just going to ride the hell out of these until I can't anymore.


that hole looks like what you get with a handheld drill, not a drill press or some other guide like they should be using.

I hope that is just cosmetic slop.

BTW, nice macro photography!

So far, mine are still going great. I'm 208 pounds nekkid, and ride a lot of steep rocky stuff. Then again, I've been working on getting my house ready to sell for the last few months, so I've only done like 3 or 4 rides on them.

Still, for the price, I think they are pretty awesome, even though they're rough around the edges in the finishing department. I would get another set. Next time, I might get the NancyWideHusky rims for my Singlespeed.

BTW, I'm keeping an eye out for a good deal on a new or used Singlespeed rear hub of the blingy persuasion.... like a DT 240, Chris King, Hadley, or slightly less blingy Hope Pro2. Bonus points for silver color. I also need a silver Lefty front hub. If anybody has a line on something, lemmie know.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

jdubb12 said:


> Who did you get your wheels from?


I bought the rims direct from light-bicycle and built the wheels myself to 110 kgf on the spec side.


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## eastie (Feb 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> ... The only real drawback i came across is that the carbon is so thick, and the spoke holes are drilled straight. This causes the nipple to come out straight as well and cannot follow the angle of the spoke. This causes more load on the nipple. Since the nipple drags against the carbon hole the nips feel tight which makes tension feel really high early on in the build but that is not the case. I used the tension meter many times throughout the tensioning process. I ended up at 120kg on the tightest side of the wheels......Krispy


would sapim polymax nipples be any better on these rims (better alignment potential),?


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

hogprint said:


> Mine are stuck in customs as well. Not too happy.


Ours cleared customs early this morning so maybe USPS will deliver on Monday.


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## [OutCast] (Jan 10, 2011)

HI,

I'll be building the exact wheels as #2375 krispy_AT_go-ride.com (King ISO LD and 135QR) in the coming week or two. Are you able to recall what spoke length you used? I've got measurements from the sapim website calc. I'd ust like to confirm.  (im a noob)

Thanks.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

After being stuck in customs for 8-days, I was finally able to pick up our wheels from the USP this morning. These wheels are for cyclocross so we opted for the narrow carbon 29er rims, 28 spokes, Novatec D711SB/D712Sb hubs, and LB laced them with Pillar spokes and nipples. Didn't have time to do much other than unpack, inspect, and pop the wheels on the digital scale (weights listed below) and tonight I get to figure out whether or not I can make the Bontrager Rythm tubeless rim strips and AmClassic valves work with a set of Specialized Trigger Pro clinchers: 

Front 658
Rear 790

Front 678
Rear 796


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

I gave my wheels the 7000ft descent-over 28 mile beatdown that is The Whole Enchilada with no issues. I got pretty used to the lateral stiffness and now i really love how they feel. The vertical compliance was really good too, they are quiet and smooth. I banged the crap out of the rims a few times, one time i hit so hard i immediately stopped and checked the rear rim. No marks, no loose spokes, still true. Very happy. 

Krispy


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

regarding the straight spoke holes - 
what about a small round file - could you open it up in the chosen direction to align with the spoke? is that the worst idea anyone has ever heard?


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## kencamarador (Sep 11, 2012)

unssaafe


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

eastie said:


> would sapim polymax nipples be any better on these rims (better alignment potential),?


No. The rims are thick and the holes are tight.


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## schnapmaster (Feb 26, 2004)

Bortis Yelltzen said:


> That's JMH's rim. He's been beating on them most of the summer. Nothing a little structural adhesive (Hysol EA 9394) couldn't fix... or at least make "good enough"...
> 
> New materials mean we get to learn new ways of fixing and bandaiding things. Used to be that when you dented an AL rim, you'd use a wrench and pry out the dent and re-true as much as possible, and then ride it as long as possible. JMH and I are thinking it's time to test out bandaid repair techniques for carbon stuff. There is a lot of material in these rims, and aside from a major explosion, it should be feasible that these bandaid style repairs may be more than sufficient. Time will tell...
> 
> BY


Boris-
I damaged a rear rim, as well. It was still true and the tubeless tire did not lose pressure. I only noticed how it was crunched when I got to the bottom of the 35mph rocky descent and began to load my bike onto the rack. My intention was to replace the rim with another just like it, but your repair is inspiring.
I did a little research on the structural adhesive you mentioned. Seems a little hard to get in small quantities and I have no experience with epoxy and carbon. Will something else do the trick?
Would you care to give a quick step-by-step tutorial or is there a website you would recommend for me to learn more?


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

just out of customs. 4 days sitting there...


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

schnapmaster said:


> Boris-
> I damaged a rear rim, as well. It was still true and the tubeless tire did not lose pressure. I only noticed how it was crunched when I got to the bottom of the 35mph rocky descent and began to load my bike onto the rack. My intention was to replace the rim with another just like it, but your repair is inspiring.
> I did a little research on the structural adhesive you mentioned. Seems a little hard to get in small quantities and I have no experience with epoxy and carbon. Will something else do the trick?
> Would you care to give a quick step-by-step tutorial or is there a website you would recommend for me to learn more?


Well, I think you can probably get decent results with epoxy's you can buy locally. JB Weld is actually not terrible stuff. You can also look for a marine epoxy, they tend to be a bit more "gummy" for lack of a better word and handle impacts well.

My "bandaid" method for rim repair.
1. Remove the tire and rim strip/rim tape. Clean off any residual sealant with soapy water.
2. Sand down the impacted area with a ~300 grit sandpaper. Get rid of some of the loose splinters of carbon and get a good look at what you are dealing with. Don't over sand things
3. Clean the sanded areas well, blow out all sanding debris with clean, dry compressed air, and then hose it down with isopropyl alcohol (IPA). Let the IPA flash off.
4. Look for delaminations, if you can push on the impact site and see layers moving around, that is a delamination. I used a thin pointy scribe to open up the delam's and squirt in a good low viscosity super glue, avoid the thick stuff, you want this to run and flow into the delaminations. I pressed things together after this with my fingers and the scribe (with nitrile gloves on) while the superglue was still wet to work the glue into the damaged area I then let this dry for about 10 minutes. 
5. Resand the impacted area you just super glued again with a ~300 grit sandpaper. You need to abraid the surface so the next layer of adhesive has something to hold onto.
6. Blow out the sanding debris with clean, dry air, hose it down with IPA and let if flash off.
7. Mix up a small amount of epoxy/adhesive, I prefer something that has a 60-90 minute working time so I can do steps 8-10 a couple times with the same batch of mixed adhesive, but can have the cure accelerated with a little heat if desired as well.
8. I used teflon tape and teflon release film to make a little flap I could cover the entire impact area with, then applied the adhesive, put the flap over the area and tried to make it smooth and wrinkle free
9. I then clamped a flexibly sheet of silicon rubber over the impact area, set it in front of a hot halogen lamp for 30 minutes to mostly cure the adhesive.
10. Remove clamp, remove the silicon rubber, peel open teflon flap, look to see if the adhesive flowed into the impact and needs a little more applied. If no more is needed, move on, if more is needed, repeat steps 5-9 with another thin coat.
11. Let adhesive cure at least overnight, or under the heat lamp for another hour or so. Be careful not to use too hot of a lamp, most epoxy resins have a glass transition temperature (Tg) in the 250-300F range, and you could damage the rim if you get hotter than this for prolonged periods of time. Keep it in the 125-150F range ideally. You should be able to hold a finger on the rim under the heat lamp for 3-5 seconds without burning yourself, or use a digital meat thermometer, etc... to see where you are at.
12. Sand as much excess adhesive away, Start with 300-grit and work your way down to 600 or 1000 grit to make it pretty, but use caution not to sand into the carbon surrounding the impact area. Too thick of a patch is more likely to crack and fail than a nice thin layer.
13. Ride and report back. Get enough people trying these bandaids and we can refine things.

And keep in mind, these are bandaid solutions. They require you to keep an eye on them, and may need to be redone if the bond is too thick and cracks. And sometimes bandaids can't fix things "good enough".


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

Has anyone tried to build these rims using a spoke tensioner? What I'm trying to assess is the extent of the "roundness" of the rim, or let's put it that way - If you built the rim with the exact same tension for all spokes for each side, how close to being perfect would the rim be? Would it be wobbly or close to being true and round?

I'm really considering these rims - but only if they are really round and flat, so that I can get a good even tension, which would not be the case with a rim that is not perfectly round or flat.

Thanks!


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

If you read back through the thread you would get your answer, which is yes they are very true and flat and yes people have used tension meters and had very good even results.


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## schnapmaster (Feb 26, 2004)

Thanks for the help. I think I will give it a try.
What about laying a little more carbon fiber on the break? I know it would add thickness to the area and interfere with truing the rim, but I assume it could strengthen it.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

schnapmaster said:


> Thanks for the help. I think I will give it a try.
> What about laying a little more carbon fiber on the break? I know it would add thickness to the area and interfere with truing the rim, but I assume it could strengthen it.


Yo BY, would thinned epoxy provide a better bond...1:1 say 30 min epoxy to IPA, so you can flow it into the delam...and maybe a heat gun? Super (cyanoarcylate) glue bonds tends to dry out and turn into crusty flakes after a while, yeah?


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

SwintOrSlude said:


> Has anyone tried to build these rims using a spoke tensioner? What I'm trying to assess is the extent of the "roundness" of the rim, or let's put it that way - If you built the rim with the exact same tension for all spokes for each side, how close to being perfect would the rim be? Would it be wobbly or close to being true and round?
> 
> I'm really considering these rims - but only if they are really round and flat, so that I can get a good even tension, which would not be the case with a rim that is not perfectly round or flat.
> 
> Thanks!


Built mine with a spoke tensioner. First ever wheel build. Brought both sides up to proper tension and checked the true and the dish. Rear was essentially spot on. The front had a small wobble of 1-2mm at between one half of the wheel and the other. Adjusted nicely while still maintaining very even tension.

Only 2 rides on them so far, but they feel more precise and direct than the Arch EX rims I had prior to these. One was ride was on fast fairly buff trails with high-bermed corners. Felt like they tracked through the corners better - previously felt vague flex in the front end and could not tell whether the tire was about to lose grip or whether the wheel was flexing. I did not have that feeling with the carbon wheel. The other ride was Gooseberry Mesa near Zion - mix of cool slickrock and singletrack, with some steep descents off a rock onto flat trail that would essentially almost bottom out the front fork (riding down it, not jumping off of it). Again, the carbon wheels handled much more predictably and felt better than the Arch EX wheels. I can't wait to test them out on faster more rocky trails but suspect I will continue to love them.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

SwintOrSlude said:


> Has anyone tried to build these rims using a spoke tensioner? What I'm trying to assess is the extent of the "roundness" of the rim, or let's put it that way - If you built the rim with the exact same tension for all spokes for each side, how close to being perfect would the rim be? Would it be wobbly or close to being true and round?
> 
> I'm really considering these rims - but only if they are really round and flat, so that I can get a good even tension, which would not be the case with a rim that is not perfectly round or flat.
> 
> Thanks!


I built up my first one without a tension meter, and it was messy, but worked. Then, I borrowed a tension meter from a bud to even it out. I managed to get it spot on with the meter, and it was also spot on true.

Yeah, the rims are very straight, and they don't get 'bent' like alu rims do. So, the spokes don't end up fighting the trueness (or lack of trueness) of the rim itself.

Easiest wheel build ever, actually... apart from shaking and fishing out dropped spoke nipples from the inside!  The uneven surfaces in the rim cavity loves to trap the wayward nipples, making them harder to get out than an alu rim. I actually found the best method for assembly was to thread on the spoke nipple upside down from a junk spoke end, just to get it through the hole, and then thread it back to the wheel's spoke.


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## Bortis Yelltzen (May 18, 2004)

Schnapmaster said:


> Thanks for the help. I think I will give it a try.
> What about laying a little more carbon fiber on the break? I know it would add thickness to the area and interfere with truing the rim, but I assume it could strengthen it.


Depends I guess.. If the damage is isolated to the rim bead or other thick solid laminate area, adding some more carbon might be feasible. If the damage has cracked fiber and resin into the hollow rim cavity, it's going to be difficult to compact the patch. I've got ways to do this, but hope I don't have to ever try it, and not sure it's worth my time and effort for a $160 rim. I'll cross that bridge when I damage mine I suppose. Kinda hoping simply re-bonding the loose, delaminated/damaged plies roughly back into place is sufficient to hold things together for several hundred more miles of abuse.



Pau11y said:


> Yo BY, would thinned epoxy provide a better bond...1:1 say 30 min epoxy to IPA, so you can flow it into the delam...and maybe a heat gun? Super (cyanoarcylate) glue bonds tends to dry out and turn into crusty flakes after a while, yeah?


Yeah, superglue can get flaky after a while. I've had mixed luck with thinning epoxy with acetone and never really tried with IPA. I typically just use IPA to clean the bonding surfaces. Depends on whether you're using heat to expedite the cure as well, some thinned epoxies will end up with bubbles as the acetone flashes off at higher temps or if you heat things too hot too fast. Instead of superglue, I prefer to use Hysol EA9396, which is much thinner and flows better that EA9394. But I didn't have any of that on hand for JMH's repair. We'll see how the superglue holds on his. Could flake off and take the 9394 with it.

I'm definitely curious to find out what works as many of us with these rims put dings in them. Lots of options... Many will probably be "good enough", but some may work better than others.We'll just have to tinker as it happens.

BY


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## [OutCast] (Jan 10, 2011)

So I got mine back from the shop today...

Chris king iso hub, ld 15 mm front, 135. Qr rear
Sapim double butted spokes
Rims are in the 380 g range

All up, 1716g, no strip or valve


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## [OutCast] (Jan 10, 2011)

double post


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

[OutCast] said:


> So I got mine back from the shop today...
> 
> Chris king iso hub, ld 15 mm front, 135. Qr rear
> Sapim double butted spokes
> ...


Hi Outcast,

I'm about to attempt the same build but with CX-Ray spokes. Do you know the length of spokes which were used for your build?


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## [OutCast] (Jan 10, 2011)

Sorry I don't ... I didn't have the gear for wheel building so I just paid a shop to make them up. ~$60 AUD / wheel it was not worth my time or the cost of the tools.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*Aluminum rims don't fail catastrophically...really?!?!*

Older model Stans Flow.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Didn't you know that it's only catastrophic failure if it chinese ti or carbon. If it's USA named brand, it's either rider error or you didn't use a torque wrench.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Lenny7 said:


> Didn't you know that it's only catastrophic failure if it chinese ti or carbon. If it's USA named brand, it's either rider error or you didn't use a torque wrench.


HAH! Nicely played! :thumbsup:


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Hi, I see that you Krispy have same hubs like mine. I have got mine build from LB and sent to me. I have been ridden those wheels for a while now and to my surprise when checking the tension of the spokes it seems to be nothing tension at all....

I have a Park Tool TM1 tensio meter. I have to tension all spokes but I am now very unsecure of how much. Since I am weighing 250 I have to take care of that weight.

What should be the difference between drive side and non drive side? When I asked LB it should be 85 to 95 Kg but they did not say anything about the difference on either side?


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## Nevada 29er (Nov 12, 2007)

How long do these typically take to get through customs? Mine have apparently been there a while.


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## bquinn (Mar 12, 2007)

I received my rims a week after they shipped.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

One of the Light-Bicycle reps told me that Specialized Roval SL rims are actually made at Xinkai, not Light-Bicycle.


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## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> Yo BY, would thinned epoxy provide a better bond...1:1 say 30 min epoxy to IPA, so you can flow it into the delam...and maybe a heat gun? Super (cyanoarcylate) glue bonds tends to dry out and turn into crusty flakes after a while, yeah?


NEVER thin epoxies with solvent. Heat the rim prior to bonding and use heat to cure. The resin will flow. All epoxies should be cured with heat anyway. If you want a low viscosity resin. Use an unfilled laminating resin rather than an adhesive. West system marine epoxy is very low viscosity. There is a tradeoff . Aerospace adhesives like EA 9394 and EA 9396 have fillers added to improve their mechanical properties , especially peel strength. Very expensive stuff though. You'd be able to buy a replacement rim cheaper. At the end of the day they are only repairing sacrificial surface plies. Any greater delams or cracks then you should throw them away or get a pro repair done with extra repair plies.


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

You guys convinced me, just order 2x wider 26" rims, matte UD, respectively 387&389g. Can't wait to lace these babies to a Tune King MK (front) and a Chris King ISO Fun Bolts (Rear), with Sapim CX-Ray spokes. Total build should be around the 1600g mark, will give my feedback then!


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## Espen (Feb 19, 2004)

My wheels have exactly that config and weights in at 1500g.

e


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

I don't think this is very likely:

Front wheel: =155 (hub) +390 (rim) +11 (nipples x32) + 138 (cx-ray x32)= 694
Rear wheel: =380 (hub w/ fun bolts) +390 (rim) +11 (nipples x32) +138 (cx-Ray x32)= 919g

Total should in theory be 1613g.


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## Espen (Feb 19, 2004)

Weighted the rear wheel with old style 3 piece axle. I also use 2X rear driveside and front disc side.


e


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

1500 does sound a little light with CK hubs, but what do I know...


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## Espen (Feb 19, 2004)

I am not joking here.

The funbolt axle and the bolts weights about 100g more than the old 3 piece axle only. 

I am not using CK hub up front. Tune King 15, witch is 50g less than CK SD. Not as good, but holds up so far.


e


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Got mine back from the builder today. 
Hope pro 2 evo front and back.
Silver Revos.
1602 grams. I thought it would be in the mid 1500's. Anyone else do the same build with the same or different weight.


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

Here is a update from my post on page 89...

It took a while but Light Bikes made good on some defective road rims that cracked around the eyelets during the build process. I had to pay a $60 upcharge plus $50 shipping to get my road rims replaced with some wide 29er rims. THe new rims built up nice, no cracking noises, everything around the eyelets look good at this point. Weights were 376 and 412. Man these rims are wide.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

*I have tried to damage these rims rims*

Here's my 100 mile report. I weigh 235 lb with gear. I have the wider rims, sapim c-x-ray spokes, dt locking nipples, AC hubs. The wheels are on a Lenz Mammoth, with TL ready Nobby Nicks, I used one strip in Stan's tape and sealant. Both tires sealed with a hand pump. I run 28psi in the rear, 20psi front, total weight is 1470 grams

I have tried to hurt these wheels, I really have. The tallest drop I have done is about 1.5" they have spent quite a bit of time in the air. I have yet to burp the tires. I have landed very poorly in rock gardens, Shot through baby head rocks, I have hit the g-outs, and I do not have a single complaint. I have yet to feel any lateral flex, the wheels are still true. I have zero complaints and an endless grin. For the weight/cost/stiffness quotient I do think I will ever buy another Stans rim again. However, the sealant and valves, yes. I am considering replacing the arches on my 26er with the carbon 26 rims. Once the funds are available of course.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

spunkmtb said:


> The tallest drop I have done is about 1.5" they have spent quite a bit of time in the air.


Yeah, umm... this reads as 1.5 inches... I think you mean 1.5'?


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Whoops meant feet


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## slsl123 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Pacenti's vs Carbon?*

Stumbled on this thread recently as I'm getting ready to build up a new set of wheels. I thought I'd decided on some Pacenti TL28's but I'm thinking I may try the light-bicycle AM rims instead. After paying to ship them it looks like they will be about $200 more than the Pacenti rims. I know the carbon rims should be about 50g lighter(450g vs. 400g) and a little stiffer than the Pacenti rims but are they really worth $200 more? Especially given some of the quality control issues people on this thread seem to have had and the time wasted shipping back and forth from China. Has anyone that has ridden both rims offer an opinion?


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

slsl123 said:


> Stumbled on this thread recently as I'm getting ready to build up a new set of wheels. I thought I'd decided on some Pacenti TL28's but I'm thinking I may try the light-bicycle AM rims instead. After paying to ship them it looks like they will be about $200 more than the Pacenti rims. I know the carbon rims should be about 50g lighter(450g vs. 400g) and a little stiffer than the Pacenti rims but are they really worth $200 more? Especially given some of the quality control issues people on this thread seem to have had and the time wasted shipping back and forth from China. Has anyone that has ridden both rims offer an opinion?


I have the Pacenti TL28. While they are fine rims, go with the carbon rims instead. I dented my TL28s and find they are good for xc and light trail. Anything more than that and you're pushing their limits.


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## david8613 (May 31, 2005)

Im interested in these for my niner wfo9 currently on flows and hope pro 2s. How are the novatech hubs they sell compare to my hope pro 2s? Can you get them with colored nips?can you guys post better pics of the different finishes?


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

Do not buy the Novatech 882 rear free hub. I failed one of these in 50 hours, they are a flawed design. The freehub pawls ratchet against a serrated piece in the hub. This piece is evidently just a press fit and has no retaining pins. My cogs/freewheel started rotating with no forward motion with no warning 2 hours into a 6 hour ride. This press fit piece was simply rotating with some frictino inside the free hub body. I ended up rebuilding the wheel with a Hope hub. 

No complaints on the rims though, I too have been beating the crap out of them all season at 210 lbs with no issues other than keeping the spokes tight.


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## Jak3 (Apr 5, 2012)

What's the link to buy? Tried searching back, no luck.


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

please don't laugh, but can you use vbrakes on these rims? I use them on my stans no tubes that I am thinking about replacing (340 ZTRs).

Thanks.

jv


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

jvossman said:


> please don't laugh, but can you use vbrakes on these rims? I use them on my stans no tubes that I am thinking about replacing (340 ZTRs).
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> jv


The LB/Nancy rims have very short sidewalls. Even if you can get them to put some basalt braking material on there, you'd run into issues w/ proximity to the tire sidewall...


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## david8613 (May 31, 2005)

Do they have other hub options? Id like to buy them already built...


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

Not yet but they are asking customers which hubs they would want pre-built on their carbon hoops

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

I had asked them if they could build the wheel with Hope Pro 2 hubs and they said yes (for more than a Novatech build of course). Not sure whether they would have used the newer pro 2 evo hubs...

In the end, I decided to order the hubs and spokes myself. I bought the Park Tool tension meter and built the wheels myself. Lots of fun and I'm sure I built them better/more meticulously than they would have. (Some people have reported sloppy builds with sub-optimal spoke lengths and uneven tensions.) End cost ended up being about the same, including the tool. 

Now have the confidence, know-how, and tools to repair/rebuild these or my road whether should the need arise. Highly recommend the DIY route.

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## david8613 (May 31, 2005)

albertdc said:


> I had asked them if they could build the wheel with Hope Pro 2 hubs and they said yes (for more than a Novatech build of course). Not sure whether they would have used the newer pro 2 evo hubs... what spikes and nips, tools do you recommend?
> 
> In the end, I decided to order the hubs and spokes myself. I bought the Park Tool tension meter and built the wheels myself. Lots of fun and I'm sure I built them better/more meticulously than they would have. (Some people have reported sloppy builds with sub-optimal spoke lengths and uneven tensions.) End cost ended up being about the same, including the tool.
> 
> ...


I never built rims before, I put together my wfo9 myself first time, the way i wanted...so I'm thinking I might go this route if its not too difficult for the experience...


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

david8613 said:


> I never built rims before, I put together my wfo9 myself first time, the way i wanted...so I'm thinking I might go this route if its not too difficult for the experience...


I had never done it either. Followed Sheldon Brown's guide on the internet. Was straightforward. Tensioned and essentially automatically tried. Much easier of a build compared to an aluminum rim, I'm guessing. I used wheelsmith spokes and got some of the Wheelsmith spoke prep to use so the nipples turned easily even at tension and then hopefully will not migrate in the future.
DO IT! :thumbup: 

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

If you do end up replacing your old v-brake rims I would want to buy the wheel set/or rims. My pm's don't work. [email protected]



jvossman said:


> please don't laugh, but can you use vbrakes on these rims? I use them on my stans no tubes that I am thinking about replacing (340 ZTRs).
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> jv


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

*Moar*

Wider 26" laced to DT 240 hubs (150x12mm R, 20mm TA F) They're for a girl's bike so I ain't too afeared.

Wider 29" laced to Industry Nine hubs (142x12mm R, 15mm TA F)


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

"Fred" said:


> Simplemind said:
> 
> 
> > They were part of a new bike that was a custom build from the ground up but It seems like they were $100-$150 less than the ultralight wheels so roughly $1000 plus the hoops from China.
> ...


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

JMH said:


> Wider 26" laced to DT 240 hubs (150x12mm R, 20mm TA F) They're for a girl's bike so I ain't too afeared.
> 
> Wider 29" laced to Industry Nine hubs (142x12mm R, 15mm TA F)


Great name for a Rim:thumbsup:


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## lobo7 (Mar 8, 2012)

[QUOTEWider 26" laced to DT 240 hubs (150x12mm R, 20mm TA F) They're for a girl's bike so I ain't too afeared.

Wider 29" laced to Industry Nine hubs (142x12mm R, 15mm TA F)[/QUOTE]

Great model numbering'nshit!


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## Prophesier (Jun 15, 2009)

*24 spoke count*

Has anyone built the 29er wider carbon rims with 24 spokes?

Thinking of building up a set with 24h tune hubs and cx-ray spokes.

I weigh 143lb / 65kg, these will be a race wheelset for a 2013 Rocky Mountain Vertex, and races will be XCO to 8 hour races.

Your opinions on the build please. If I do go 24h would I lace them 3x, 2x or a combination?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Prophesier said:


> Has anyone built the 29er wider carbon rims with 24 spokes?
> 
> Thinking of building up a set with 24h tune hubs and cx-ray spokes.
> 
> ...


Let's check of stresses...
Let's say it's the upper 50% of the spokes around the hoop that's supporting the rider's mass?
I'm running 32h 3x and weigh 195 lbs kitted up:
195/16 = 12.19lbs/spoke

Assuming your 24h 3x at 145 lbs kitted up:
145/12 = 12.08lbs/spoke

This isn't accurate, obviously, but should put things in perspective. Don't think I'd worry much about 0.08lbs/spk difference...and I built my wheels for AM type of riding. Now, I'm using DT Comps 2.0/1.8, but you're going bladed...I'll let you do the leg work to look up some elastic limits from Sapin and DT. 
But I'd consider if you loose a spoke...say twig or rock, what kind of survival a wheel of 24h vs 28h vs 32h would have so you can keep on racing?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Read this and you will know what to decide. My opinion is that at your weight, it would work.
http://icelord.net/bike/thebicyclewheel.pdf


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## oldm8 (Dec 6, 2011)

What length nipples is everyone using on these rims? Thanks


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

Prophesier said:


> Has anyone built the 29er wider carbon rims with 24 spokes?
> Thinking of building up a set with 24h tune hubs and cx-ray spokes.


What benefits you get from 24 vs 32?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Rainerhq said:


> What benefits you get from 24 vs 32?


The weight of 16 spokes and nipples would be the primary benefit in terms of a WW build.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Prophesier said:


> Has anyone built the 29er wider carbon rims with 24 spokes?
> 
> Thinking of building up a set with 24h tune hubs and cx-ray spokes.
> 
> ...


The Reynolds carbon rim is 24 spoke, Not sure what there rim price is.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

BruceBrown said:


> The weight of 16 spokes and nipples would be the primary benefit in terms of a WW build.


Save will be about 74g. I would prefer 74g heavier wheel, which is stiffer.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Nothing special*



oldm8 said:


> What length nipples is everyone using on these rims? Thanks


I used the regular common sized DT Swiss brass nipples... dunno the actual size, but I didn't ask my LBS for anything special. They worked just fine.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> I used the regular common sized DT Swiss brass nipples... dunno the actual size,


12mm
:thumbsup:


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## dutchct (Mar 19, 2010)

Failed today on the shore. I'm not sure when it happened but I do remember hearing a fairly loud hit on a double black, I stopped to have a look but didn't notice it right away, only noticed it lower down. Had about 30psi in it.

The bubbles are just soapy water i used to clean the rim for the photo. The rim still holds air.

I'll probably keep the front wheel going till that breaks, but I doubt that'll happen for a while. I'm usually pretty good at avoiding the rocks with the front.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

dude, you're fine, no worries! ride it till it explodes!


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## dutchct (Mar 19, 2010)

Are you guys serious?


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

I have the same failure on my light bicycle rear rim and it has held up for 100 miles so far... Including a recent run down sawpit at demo soquel, CA on a carbon hardtail

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

dutchct said:


> Failed today on the shore. I'm not sure when it happened but I do remember hearing a fairly loud hit on a double black, I stopped to have a look but didn't notice it right away, only noticed it lower down. Had about 30psi in it.
> 
> The bubbles are just soapy water i used to clean the rim for the photo. The rim still holds air.
> 
> I'll probably keep the front wheel going till that breaks, but I doubt that'll happen for a while. I'm usually pretty good at avoiding the rocks with the front.


Mine was a bit worse... that looks like an easy fix. That seems to be a pretty common failure mode with these rims. Yes, it's technically 'rider error' but it's happening a lot. They need to beef up the rim bead hooks.

JMH


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes, but that same impact might have bent an aluminum rim or at least one close to as light as these.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

By the way, I read this post from the beginning and it took me 2 weeks. I bought one of the Carver rims just before I found this post and spray painted mine with appliance paint before I built it. It was to replace a crashed Arch. Anyway, by painting it with appliance paint, it looks just like an aluminum black annodized rim.

The easy way to paint is to take a 26' tube and blow it up and flip it so the stem is out and mount it on the rim. It keeps a nice clean line at the bead and keeps paint out of the bead area and you can grab it and flip it over after you paint one side. Took 5 minutes to do the whole job. This absolutely looks like an aluminum rim so I have a "sleeper" carbon wheel. Appliance paint is very hard so it is so far doing a good job of preventing scratches, etc.


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

yourdaguy said:


> Yes, but that same impact might have bent an aluminum rim or at least one close to as light as these.


True, I think it certainly would have. But the weight gap means these Carbon Bros have some wiggle room to improve impact resistance. Counting this pic above I have seen five of these in the last month: mine, three other friends. I have ridden other carbon wheelsets that didn't have the same sensitive bead hooks.

Don't get me wrong, I like them rims and have three sets. But I am not going to be climbing any hilltops to sing praises of their impact resistance. Let the buyer beware. 

BTW I lol'ed at your comment about 2 weeks of reading.

JMH


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yea, That would be over 150 posts per day. Hated seeing all the people when I was half way through that said; "I don't have time to read the thread, just tell me what to do."


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

JMH said:


> Wider 26" laced to DT 240 hubs (150x12mm R, 20mm TA F) They're for a girl's bike so I ain't too afeared.
> 
> Wider 29" laced to Industry Nine hubs (142x12mm R, 15mm TA F)


Those logos are classy!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

yourdaguy said:


> Yes, but that same impact might have bent an aluminum rim or at least one close to as light as these.


It woulda looked like PacMan.

But yeah, check back a few pages. It looks like you can repair a carbon rim failure like that pretty easily. As long as the bed area of the rim isn't compromised, I think you're good. :thumbsup:


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

That is more or less my point. The same impact would ruin an aluminum rim and while it is hard to tell from the pictures, I think his bead seat is compromised too but if it isn't then at least you have a chance of repairing it and you don't even have to rebuild the wheel if it works.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

I finally bit the bullet. Ordered their "In Stock" rims. UD Matte 32h, perfect. 380g and 381g. Placed my order last Sunday and they were on my doorstep on Friday( in Mi.). I was shocked. Looked them over and they appeared to be perfect. Weights are 381g and 383g, pretty darn close.

Just got done building the front, and it seemed to turn out good. this is only my 2nd time building wheels. Still working on the rear, will have it done tomorrow.
I am really impressed with the quality of the rims that I received. I will give a report when I get a chance to ride them.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

mucky said:


> I finally bit the bullet. Ordered their "In Stock" rims. UD Matte 32h, perfect. 380g and 381g. Placed my order last Sunday and they were on my doorstep on Friday( in Mi.). I was shocked. Looked them over and they appeared to be perfect. Weights are 381g and 383g, pretty darn close.
> 
> Just got done building the front, and it seemed to turn out good. this is only my 2nd time building wheels. Still working on the rear, will have it done tomorrow.
> I am really impressed with the quality of the rims that I received. I will give a report when I get a chance to ride them.


So, mine arrived in the same configuration, and i've noticed that there are slight 'sections' to the rim. Each section goes form a darker colour to a lighter colour, with about 5 sections going around

Are yours the same, or is there no variation in the colour at all?

I'm travelling on business at the moment so can't take any pictures, but thought i'd ask the question regardless


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Jubas said:


> So, mine arrived in the same configuration, and i've noticed that there are slight 'sections' to the rim. Each section goes form a darker colour to a lighter colour, with about 5 sections going around
> 
> Are yours the same, or is there no variation in the colour at all?
> 
> I'm travelling on business at the moment so can't take any pictures, but thought i'd ask the question regardless


Yes, they look the same as yours. That's what UD is supposed to look like.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

mucky said:


> Yes, they look the same as yours. That's what UD is supposed to look like.


Sure - thought that might have been the case


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## mashraf (Jun 28, 2006)

Hi All, 

Have read the thread with a misture of curiosity, amusement and finally pulled the trigger an a pair of UD 32 spoke rims. I am also going to build these myself so could someone help me with spoke lenght. I am building with a Dale Lefty front hub and DT Swiss 240s rear hub using DT Rev spokes. ANy ideas on spoke length?


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

mashraf said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Have read the thread with a misture of curiosity, amusement and finally pulled the trigger an a pair of UD 32 spoke rims. I am also going to build these myself so could someone help me with spoke lenght. I am building with a Dale Lefty front hub and DT Swiss 240s rear hub using DT Rev spokes. ANy ideas on spoke length?


I used a 240s 6 bolt rear and used 291mm spokes. I cut my spokes and threaded them. I came up with an ERD of 602. DT's website said to use 292mm spokes for the rear. I thought they were too long so I made them 291mm. Can't help with the front hub. I would say 1mm shorter than DT's spoke calculator.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*I built the same wheel set.*

DT Swiss 240 rear and left front, 32 hole three cross.

On the rear I used 292/292 and on the front I used 292/294. Sapim double butted spokes and brass polyax nipples. Not a super light build but built to a tension of about 130 drive side rear and disc side front. The wheels feel super solid, in particular for keeping on a line through rock gardens.


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## HawkeM (Sep 24, 2012)

I ordered a set of wider AM 32H UD rims, shipped much quicker than promised and took about a week and a half to deliver. The rims look great, customer service was good too. Unfortunately, (or fortunately?) I came across a set of roval carbon's that I couldn't pass up while these were shipping so I'm going to sell these and won't get to see how they perform. I'll get weights taken on these two to add more data points.


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## mestregroda (Sep 20, 2012)

Nice.


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## RFXR (Dec 19, 2003)

I tried reading through this thread but its just too much, I'm hoping someone will be able to answer this easily.

I have some 29" I9 wheel laced up to Arch's. The arch ERD is 605mm, in an email I got from Nancy it looks like the narrow rim is 600mm ERD, and the wide one is 602mm ERD. 

I'd like to swap the Arch's straight over to Nancy's wide rim without changing spokes. Does anyone have any experience with this? How'd it work?

Thanks.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

The guy who builds my wheels won't reuse spokes. I don't get my spokes through him, so he's not trying to just make more money. He won't do it and warranty them.


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## HawkeM (Sep 24, 2012)

HawkeM said:


> I ordered a set of wider AM 32H UD rims, shipped much quicker than promised and took about a week and a half to deliver. The rims look great, customer service was good too. Unfortunately, (or fortunately?) I came across a set of roval carbon's that I couldn't pass up while these were shipping so I'm going to sell these and won't get to see how they perform. I'll get weights taken on these two to add more data points.


Wheel weights came in at 384.7g and 386.0g for this set. I didn't ask for anything specific in regards to weight when I ordered these so it was nice to see these coming in close to one another and close to the 390g spec.

The ad for these is listed in the wheelset classifieds if anyone is interested.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

@ HawkeM....i sent you a PM about the rims....

.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

"The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brant recommends reusing stainless steel spokes. I have done it several times and those wheels are all still going strong several after many years.
As far as the ERD problem, the spokes are probably too long but might work depending on what length the original wheel builder chose. There is generally around 3-4 mm of range that will work when building a wheel. If the original builder rounded down then you will probably be ok. If he rounded up then they will probably be too long and you will run out of threads.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

RFXR said:


> I tried reading through this thread but its just too much, I'm hoping someone will be able to answer this easily.
> 
> I have some 29" I9 wheel laced up to Arch's. The arch ERD is 605mm, in an email I got from Nancy it looks like the narrow rim is 600mm ERD, and the wide one is 602mm ERD.
> 
> ...


I went from a Crest rim which has an ERD or 605, and the spokes were too long. Way too long. I think wheelbuilder.com( they built my Crest wheels) used too long of spokes in the first place. I used DT's spoke calc and feel they are off my 1mm. I ended up cutting my spokes and re-threaded them. Worked out fine.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

On average the spokes should have been 5 mm too long (actually more than 5 mm too long due to the angles involved) so unless the spokes were protruding from the nipples on the Crests, they were the right size.


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## RFXR (Dec 19, 2003)

yourdaguy said:


> On average the spokes should have been 5 mm too long (actually more than 5 mm too long due to the angles involved) so unless the spokes were protruding from the nipples on the Crests, they were the right size.


Isn't the spoke for a 605 only 1.5mm smaller than that for a 602. Since its a diameter measurement, each side is only half as far from center as the difference of the 2 numbers.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

My bad! I was thinking the new rims had an ERD of 600 and also not accounting for half the diameter. I just looked it up and the ERD for Nancy wheels is 603. So I plugged it into spoke calc with a Shimano front hub that was already there and it went from 290.8 on the left to 291.8 and from 291.8 to 292.8. So actually changing the ERD by 2 with that particular hub 3 cross only changes the spoke length by 1mm

So the end result is that he should be able to do the swap since some brands of spokes only sell in 2 mm increments and there is only 1 difference it should for sure work.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

RFXR said:


> Isn't the spoke for a 605 only 1.5mm smaller than that for a 602. Since its a diameter measurement, each side is only half as far from center as the difference of the 2 numbers.


Yes. Not sure what yourdaguy is referring to. The spokes used on my Crest front wheel were too long by 1mm. This made them about 2.5mm too long with the carbon rim. Not a good idea.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Were they too long for the Crest's by 1 mm?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> So actually changing the ERD by 2 with that particular hub 3 cross only changes the spoke length by 1mm


Changing the ERD by 2mm will change the spoke length by 1mm for any wheel of any cross pattern built on any hub.
:skep:


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

yourdaguy said:


> Were they too long for the Crest's by 1 mm?


Yes, if not a little more. I measured ERD for the carbon rim at 602mm. This was from from nipple slot to nipple slot( doesn't sound right).


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Here's my 10 ride status report...

I'm the guy who destroyed a rim with too much pressure. I laced up a new rim with new spokes and nipples, and again used stan's yellow tape and valve. 

The ardent 2.4 tires seated with a floor pump (not easily) but then took an entire day to completely seal. The rim bead was good but rubber flashing left over from molding the tire resulted in evenly spaced leaks all around the entire tire on both sides. Tilting and rotating the tire every few hours got fresh stans into those leaks, but they took over night to finally seal. Since then there have been no leaks or burps with around 26lbs in the rear and 24 up front. That's quite impressive considering the monster trucking through rock gardens and 3 foot drops to flat. 

So far I don't think i've slammed the rear wheel into anything hard enough to compress the tire and impact the bead edge. Or at least, if it has happened, I haven't noticed and the rim showed no sign of the impact. That's somewhat surprising after plowing through rocks on a hardtail. When it happens, i'll check in again with another report.

Other than that, they feel like wheels should. Can't say I can tell a difference between them and other rims other than perhaps them being lighter. Rock strikes to the side of the wheel and spokes sound a bit different than with an aluminum rim. There are a few minor scuffs from flying rocks but they look about like the damage I typically do to aluminum rims. 

One interesting thing about the matte UD rims is that their texture and color are almost identical to the rubber of the tires. I kind of like this look. The tire and rim end up looking like one piece. With a light layer of dust or mud, they visually meld together.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mucky said:


> Yes, if not a little more. I measured ERD for the carbon rim at 602mm. This was from from nipple slot to nipple slot( doesn't sound right).


Geometrically, ERD Is the diameter of the circle that the ends the spokes make in the wheel,
Since the base of the nipple slot is the ideal place for the ends of the spokes, that is where you measure ERD.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> Since the base of the nipple slot is the ideal place for the ends of the spokes, that is where you measure ERD.


This is what I did. Came up with 602mm. Using DT's spoke calc, with the ERD of 602, my spokes were about 1mm too long. They were sticking out the bottom of the nipple too far.

I believe that DT's spoke calc is off by 1mm. Could just be me, but I cut my spokes to the length suggested by DT and I had to make them shorter after I laced up both my wheels. A major PITA. I can't remember if I read it, or the guys at wheelbuilder told me that there was something about DT's spoke calc that was off. In my case, it most certainly was


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mucky said:


> This is what I did. Came up with 602mm. Using DT's spoke calc, with the ERD of 602, my spokes were about 1mm too long. They were sticking out the bottom of the nipple too far.
> 
> I believe that DT's spoke calc is off by 1mm. Could just be me, but I cut my spokes to the length suggested by DT and I had to make them shorter after I laced up both my wheels. A major PITA. I can't remember if I read it, or the guys at wheelbuilder told me that there was something about DT's spoke calc that was off. In my case, it most certainly was


All three if my rims were 603mm.
There is nothing wrong with the DT Calc. It does simple, repeatable math and shows you all the inputs.
The if you mean prowheelbuilder.com, their calc is not right, or at least it doesn't do the math they say it does and I can't duplicate the results. They also don't show all the necessary inputs. They link to a Wikipedia article with the formula in it. Run the numbers yourself and they don't come out the same.
If your spokes end up 1mm above the slot, there's nothing wrong with that. If you disassembled your wheel and trimmed the spokes by 1mm, unfortunately you wasted a bunch of time. If they actually protrude past the ends of the nipples you did something wrong. The DT calc is not at fault.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> All three if my rims were 603mm.
> There is nothing wrong with the DT Calc. It does simple, repeatable math and shows you all the inputs.
> The if you mean prowheelbuilder.com, their calc is not right, or at least it doesn't do the math they say it does and I can't duplicate the results. They also don't show all the necessary inputs. They link to a Wikipedia article with the formula in it. Run the numbers yourself and they don't come out the same.
> If your spokes end up 1mm above the slot, there's nothing wrong with that. If you disassembled your wheel and trimmed the spokes by 1mm, unfortunately you wasted a bunch of time. If they actually protrude past the ends of the nipples you did something wrong. The DT calc is not at fault.


Both of my rims have an ERD of 602mm. I don't know why or how they are different from your, but they are. And before you wrongly assume I did that wrong, the way I determined the ERD was like this:

- I glued a nipple to the end of 2 different spokes
- I cut the spokes to 200mm from the slot of the nipple.
- I put each spoke through opposing holes, lined them up with a laser and propped them off the ground so they were level to the ground and perpendicular to the rim.
- I then measured the distance between the 2 spoke ends, 202mm, and added 400mm to that. That = 602mm.

Wheelbuilder.com built my Crest wheels, not prowheelbuilder. They used spokes that were 1mm too long, according to what DT's calculator said should be used. This is irrelevant. 
I cut my spokes to EXACTLY the length DT's calc said they should be, based on an ERD of 602mm, and they were sticking out the bottom of the nipple. Not a lot, maybe a 1/2mm or so, but too much as the wheel wasn't up to tension yet. I did nothing wrong.


----------



## Climber999 (May 2, 2009)

A great thread! 

I am considering pulling the trigger. Can any anyone share their experience/opinion on running on them on a 29er HT? I'm shying away from ENVE due to reported excessive stiffness and and even some harshness (per Walt from Waltwork in one of the threads I researched). 

I used to run Flow, but losing some weight and gaining some footprint will be appreciated.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mucky said:


> Both of my rims have an ERD of 602mm. I don't know why or how they are different from your, but they are. And before you wrongly assume I did that wrong, the way I determined the ERD was like this:
> 
> - I glued a nipple to the end of 2 different spokes
> - I cut the spokes to 200mm from the slot of the nipple.
> ...


I didn't say you measured ERD wrong, I said if your spokes are protruding past the ends of the nipples (you didn't answer my question), you did _something_ wrong.
You have falsely accused the DT Swiss calculator of not doing the right math. The calc is not the source of your issue, that's all I'm saying.



mucky said:


> Wheelbuilder.com built my Crest wheels, not prowheelbuilder. They used spokes that were 1mm too long, according to what DT's calculator said should be used. This is irrelevant.


Ah... I just know that the prowheelbuilder.com calc is fishy, I didn't understand who you were talking about.
1mm too long when using the Stan's published ERD? That actually makes perfect sense. Measure a Stan's ERD by the method you describe and you'll find it is 1.5mm larger than what they print on the sticker. :thumbsup:


mucky said:


> I cut my spokes to EXACTLY the length DT's calc said they should be, based on an ERD of 602mm, and they were sticking out the bottom of the nipple. Not a lot, maybe a 1/2mm or so, but too much as the wheel wasn't up to tension yet. I did nothing wrong.


Past the end of the nipple or the bottom of the slot?
There is no problem with the DT Calc. It's easy to check the math. Why would it give wheelbuilder.com a short result and you a long one? It's just a calculator... it does the same thing over and over again, if used correctly.
If you want to find out what the problem actually was, I'll help you track it down.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> Past the end of the nipple or the bottom of the slot?
> There is no problem with the DT Calc. It's easy to check the math. Why would it give wheelbuilder.com a short result and you a long one? It's just a calculator... it does the same thing over and over again, if used correctly.
> If you want to find out what the problem actually was, I'll help you track it down.


They were just past the end of the nipple. Not by a lot, but the wheel was at about 50% tension.
I have a DT 240s Fifteen front hub and a 240s 6 bolt rear hub. Easy enough to input on the DT calc. The calc said 292 for both sides of the rear and 293(L) and 295(R) for the front. All of my rear spokes were under 292, closer to 291. On the front I cut the R side to 294, the actual was 294.5. 294 was perfect. The left side was VERY close to 292, and the actual length was 292.9.
In the end it didn't matter, as having the threading machine was very helpful, but what a pain to unlace the wheel to re-cut the spokes.
Like I said, not sure what wheelbuilder was doing, but the spoke they used on my front wheel were past the bottom of the nipple by at least 1mm.

I may take you up on some help, but more about building.

Thanks


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## Jordya (Sep 15, 2009)

*150 km review*

I recently bought and built out a set of these LB rims or "Nancy wheels" as I like to call them. I went with the wider 32 hole 3k glossy ones. They arrived inside of 5 days with great communication from Brian during the confirmation process. The build out is with Hope Evo II's and DT comp spokes. Also running racing ralph and icon tires.

I have logged about 150 kms over some pretty rough New Zealand terrain and I am loving the ride. I am a heavy rider at 245lbs on a salsa big mama. I have taken some 2-3 ft drops and hard cornering and ruts with no issues whatsoever. I took them back in for a quick spoke tightening and they needed only two small tweaks. My ride is much lighter and tubeless is a big difference. This is by far the best bike investment I've ever made. Made a $1500 ride like a $6000 one.


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## grouan (Jul 29, 2004)

*Low count spoke rims?*

Great thread- I really appreciate the conversation and the sharing of information.... It is such a huge resource.

I am contemplating building a set of lighter wheels for special days/races- the front would be a lefty.

I have seen a few lefty hubs with less spoke holes (DT Swiss comes to mind) and was wondering if anyone has had any experience building a low spoke count wheel (24 holes)?

Normally I value durability over weight- but the allure of light/stiff fast wheels is a pretty strong pull.

Is this a stupid idea?


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

grouan said:


> Great thread- I really appreciate the conversation and the sharing of information.... It is such a huge resource.
> 
> I am contemplating building a set of lighter wheels for special days/races- the front would be a lefty.
> 
> ...


I've the same pull, but Stan's Flow's on blow out for $50 each, the pull on my wallet was greater than the weight savings.


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## BloodyRoots (Feb 2, 2009)

just put some tires on a friend's light bicycle carbon rims and they didnt seem that friendly. Trying to get them to inflate tubless wasn't easy. Luckily i have a massive compressor at home and shot 100psi in it instantly and it finally took. Hoping they stay sealed.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

I am sure somebody here has beaten me to this long ago, but I just emailed LB and begged them to consider producing a 26" x 65mm wide carbon rim. Specifically, what I recommended was a 26 x 50-65mm rim to entice the all season fat cyclist (or fat front cyclist). I recommended they look to the Marge Lite as an alu example of the type of rim that I would love to see (and buy). If anyone here has a yearning for a LB fat rim, drop them an email and make your voice heard. I don't know a thing about carbon rim manufacture, and I don't even know if a strong+light ultra wide rim is possible. So no flames, please. It can't hurt to ask.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

BloodyRoots said:


> just put some tires on a friend's light bicycle carbon rims and they didnt seem that friendly. Trying to get them to inflate tubless wasn't easy. Luckily i have a massive compressor at home and shot 100psi in it instantly and it finally took. Hoping they stay sealed.


What brand tires were they?


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

Quick feedback:

Just laced up my front wheel 2 weeks ago, with a Tune King MK 20mm hub and Sapim CX-Ray spokes. Although not perfect, the lacing process has been pretty good, with just minor corrections needed to make the wheel perfectly true once all spokes were at the same tension on each side. FYI I put 110kgf on the disc side (Tune rates the King MK hub at 100kgf, so with close-to-perfect tension I assume this is acceptable).

As for the tubeless setup, I'm using the Bontrager Rythm Symmetric strips, which fit the rim PERFECTLY, it's like they have been made for the rim. I had a hard time popping the tire (Schwalbe Hans Dampf 2.35) completely, as it would pop on 3/4 of the rim AND be airtight, which ended up in the tire wobbling from one side to the other. I had to remove the tire, soap it up and inflate the tire 3 times with a compressor at more than 5 bars (>75psi!) to get the tire to pop on all sides, was really scared for the rim, but it eventually worked. At least it is perfectly straight on the rim now. I'm suspecting the tire to not be perfectly round, though, I don't think it has anything to do with the rim itself.

What I can say is that the seal between the rim/bontrager strip combo and the tire seems VERY good. Even when deflating the tire, at 0.3-0.4 bars, all beads stay popped into the rim groove, even when moving the tire from side to side, which is the kind of rim/tire connection that I usually observe with a true UST rim (not the case with the ghetto/notubes setups I've tried before).

I've only been using the front rim for about 30km, with a tube, so can't say if the tubeless setup is bombproof, but will give it a tough test next weekend, I tend to ride quite aggressively and have burped most of the ghetto tubeless / Stan's notubes setups I've been on. The only flawless setup for me has been the Mavic EX823 / Minion DHF UST double ply combo, never a burp, perfect, but of course it is a pure downhilll combo. Will see how this lighter wheel fares, especially the rear wheel!

I will be lacing the rear wheel to a Halo Supadrive hub and CX-Ray spokes, total wheelset weight should be around 1530g without the rear 12mm skewer (front wheel actually weighs 681g); I'll be giving more feedback once I have used the wheelset thoroughly.


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## lobo7 (Mar 8, 2012)

BloodyRoots said:


> just put some tires on a friend's light bicycle carbon rims and they didnt seem that friendly. Trying to get them to inflate tubless wasn't easy. Luckily i have a massive compressor at home and shot 100psi in it instantly and it finally took. Hoping they stay sealed.


I inflated my Panaracer Driver tires on LB Wide rims with one round of Gorilla tape and a floor pump. It helped to pull the tire bead towards the hook but no real problems.

Search this thread and you can see what is likely to happen if you go over 70psi (way too high for tubeless mtb tire) on these rims...Fwiw Stans doesn't even recommend going over* 40 psi *on his rims and I'd follow that guideline for these. I went up to 50 to seal mine initially which was more than enough. Be careful and pay attention to recommended psi of the tire and if its not tubeless specific it may not handle the higher psi. If you blow a tire off one of these rims it will destroy it.


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## coldmirow (Jan 25, 2012)

is there also a tubolar-type of those chinese carbon rims?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

BloodyRoots said:


> just put some tires on a friend's light bicycle carbon rims and they didnt seem that friendly. Trying to get them to inflate tubless wasn't easy. Luckily i have a massive compressor at home and shot 100psi in it instantly and it finally took. Hoping they stay sealed.


Bontrager Rhythm Strips. $9.99 for the pair will do the job like no other on the rims. The oddest thing about ordering those strips is they are sent in a "HUGE" cardboard box. Not sure why, but it's odd.

BB


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Bontrager Rhythm Strips. $9.99 for the pair will do the job like no other on the rims. The oddest thing about ordering those strips is they are sent in a "HUGE" cardboard box. Not sure why, but it's odd.
> 
> BB


They don't want to crease the rim strip when packaging. Maybe.


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## BloodyRoots (Feb 2, 2009)

BruceBrown said:


> Bontrager Rhythm Strips. $9.99 for the pair will do the job like no other on the rims. The oddest thing about ordering those strips is they are sent in a "HUGE" cardboard box. Not sure why, but it's odd.
> 
> BB


Its not the strips that arent sealing. I was able to get the tires on by hand...without using a tire tool. I had to put a strap around the tires and force them to the edge of the rim....just doesnt look like the light bixycle carbon rims are that great.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

BloodyRoots said:


> Its not the strips that arent sealing. I was able to get the tires on by hand...without using a tire tool. I had to put a strap around the tires and force them to the edge of the rim....just doesnt look like the light bixycle carbon rims are that great.


Are you saying that the rim profile is bad for tubeless or perhaps that the bead wasn't properly formed? Is it the exact rim or are you saying that the design itself is bad?

Without more detail, your terse post should likely be viewed as just the typical frustration of getting a tire seated.


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## BloodyRoots (Feb 2, 2009)

Have you ever been able to put a tire completely on a rim by hand? Not using any tire tools.. just ur fingers? Ive done 50 or so tire installs and have never been able to.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

BloodyRoots said:


> Have you ever been able to put a tire completely on a rim by hand? Not using any tire tools.. just ur fingers? Ive done 50 or so tire installs and have never been able to.


Yes. Road tires, tubed tires, tubless tires all by hand.

Your belt technique is interesting. You could have also put a tube in there, aired up, let them sit overnight, and then take tube out and air up.


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

I've never used a tool to install a tire ever....just by hand.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

BloodyRoots said:


> Have you ever been able to put a tire completely on a rim by hand? Not using any tire tools.. just ur fingers? Ive done 50 or so tire installs and have never been able to.


I have the opposite experience. I've only mounted about 10 tires so far and I don't think I've ever used a tire lever to get the tire on. 
This includes mounting the nobby nics on my light-bicycle 26 inch carbon rims with the rhythm strips.
I usually start on the side that is opposite of the valve and make sure both beads are in the center channel. That usually gives enough room to push the bead in. The only time I came close to using a lever was with a Kenda small block 8 tire to a Sun Ringle Black Flag Pro 29er rim.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Yes. It is dependent on the rim / tire combination. Some tires are a little large and some rims are a little small. Combine those together and tire mounting requires no levers. On the other hand, the opposite is also true. Some of my wire bead downhill tires can't be mounted with plastic levers. A large rim, small tire, wire bead combination can require metal levers. Plastic levers break long before the tire is mounted. Kenda blue groove 2.6 on azonic outlaws fell into that category for me.

Maxxis ardent 2.4s fit perfectly on all four of my wider 29er light bicycle rims. A single, wimpy plastic lever made the final bit of tire go over the bead with the expected amount of leverage.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

BloodyRoots said:


> Have you ever been able to put a tire completely on a rim by hand? Not using any tire tools.. just ur fingers? Ive done 50 or so tire installs and have never been able to.


I've done hundreds of tire installs and can count on one hand the number of times I've used a lever.


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## BloodyRoots (Feb 2, 2009)

they were new sworks tires 2bliss. I've got the same set on other rims and they all require a tire tool to get them on, and a LOT of force usually. These required no force to get on the light-bicycle rims. They basically went out without having to stretch the tire.. like putting a 29er tire on a 26er rim. I've never personally seen this, mine are usually hard to get on the rim.. but if you guys have seen this before then i guess it's nothing out of the ordinary. 

I tried the belt around the tire, but in the end 100psi burst from my 40gal compressor did the trick hehe, never fails. If you do tubeless setups semi regularly, nothing beats an air compressor. I can 100% say these are the least tubeless friendly rims I've worked with before, but once theyre setup, theyre setup.. and with the right tools setup is never really THAT difficult.


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## jasonr (Jun 13, 2007)

I have just built up a set of these rims. The wide 29er Light-Bicycle ones built onto Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs and DT Comp spokes, very pleased with how they have built up.

As recommended in this thread I used the Bonty Rhythm Rim strip and I have managed to get tyres inflated ok. A 2.25 TL Racing Ralph needed to have an inner tube put in over night to get it to seat, now I have done that it goes up ok. I have also fitted a Specialized S-Works 2Bliss Ground Control and that went up very quickly with light pumping from a track pump, I would say it was a tight fit on the rim and took a bit of force to get the last bit of bead onto the rim, but didn't need any tools. I have always used proper UST rims before and I would say that these were no more difficult to inflate tyres on.

The only problem I have had is the Bonty valves refused to seat well in the rim strips, not sure if I bought the wrong ones? but I have replaced these with another brand and they work fine now.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

If you know the proper technique getting a tire on a rim without a tire tool is the norm not the exception. I probably do 50 installs a year with changing around 6 soon to be 7 MTB wheelsets that is 12 soon to be 14 wheels and my 7 road wheelsets.. I don't think I have ever used a tool installing a 29er tire and only on very tight 700c tires have I ever had to use a tool (such as Open Corsa's on Zip rims.)

With each bead start away from the valve stem and as you put the bead on work it toward the channel in the middle of the tire. Towards the end, hold the wheel with your left hand such that your thumb is at the valve stem and pulling up on that last bit of bead. Use your right hand to go around and push the bead into the center channel then use both thumbs to push that last little bit over. Repeat from the other side. On the 2nd side you might have to push hard on the bead to get it into the middle because the other bead wants to get in the way; but keep applying upward pressure with your left thumb and work your way around the bead with your right a couple of times and it will generally pop right on.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*What's a UR finger?*



meltingfeather said:


> I've done hundreds of tire installs and can count on one hand the number of times I've used a lever.


Kinky!

Yeah, these rims are like any other disc specific rim. You should not have a problem getting a kevlar bead tire on by hand. Unlike my Bontrager Mustang rim brake wheels. I can get a tire on those by hand, but it's a struggle... and I have strong bass player fingers.


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## BloodyRoots (Feb 2, 2009)

yourdaguy said:


> If you know the proper technique getting a tire on a rim without a tire tool is the norm not the exception. I probably do 50 installs a year with changing around 6 soon to be 7 MTB wheelsets that is 12 soon to be 14 wheels and my 7 road wheelsets.. I don't think I have ever used a tool installing a 29er tire and only on very tight 700c tires have I ever had to use a tool (such as Open Corsa's on Zip rims.)
> 
> With each bead start away from the valve stem and as you put the bead on work it toward the channel in the middle of the tire. Towards the end, hold the wheel with your left hand such that your thumb is at the valve stem and pulling up on that last bit of bead. Use your right hand to go around and push the bead into the center channel then use both thumbs to push that last little bit over. Repeat from the other side. On the 2nd side you might have to push hard on the bead to get it into the middle because the other bead wants to get in the way; but keep applying upward pressure with your left thumb and work your way around the bead with your right a couple of times and it will generally pop right on.


Regardless if you use a tire tool or not, you still have to stretch the tire to get on the rim. I didnt at all, it just fell onto it via the force of gravity pretty much.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

A wide rim with a deep channel and it can go on easy.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> If you know the proper technique getting a tire on a rim without a tire tool is the norm not the exception. I probably do 50 installs a year with changing around 6 soon to be 7 MTB wheelsets that is 12 soon to be 14 wheels and my 7 road wheelsets.. I don't think I have ever used a tool installing a 29er tire and only on very tight 700c tires have I ever had to use a tool (such as Open Corsa's on Zip rims.)
> 
> With each bead start away from the valve stem and as you put the bead on work it toward the channel in the middle of the tire. Towards the end, hold the wheel with your left hand such that your thumb is at the valve stem and pulling up on that last bit of bead. Use your right hand to go around and push the bead into the center channel then use both thumbs to push that last little bit over. Repeat from the other side. On the 2nd side you might have to push hard on the bead to get it into the middle because the other bead wants to get in the way; but keep applying upward pressure with your left thumb and work your way around the bead with your right a couple of times and it will generally pop right on.


That works for the type of tires and rims you deal with on a regular basis. However not all 29ers can mount tires without levers. Tools aren't necessary for light weight tires but are absolutely necessary with some large or wire beaded tires.

When providing advice, it seems wise to not express a moderate view. Tire levers are necessary in some situations but not others.


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## BloodyRoots (Feb 2, 2009)

Run the same tires on my flow/hope setup and they require a tire lever for sure.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

I have a Rocket Ron and a Maxxis Aspen. The Ron was so tight, I broke one of my tire levers trying to get it on. The Aspen went on VERY easy, almost too easy.

With that said, The same Ron tire went on without a lever on my Crest rim.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

BloodyRoots said:


> Its not the strips that arent sealing. I was able to get the tires on by hand...without using a tire tool. I had to put a strap around the tires and force them to the edge of the rim....just doesnt look like the light bixycle carbon rims are that great.


Do you have the strips from Bontrager? They turn the rim into a nice UST interface - or as close as one needs to get. It also makes the tire bead a very tight and secure fit. I continue to recommend them simply for the safety factor and, well - see post #131 in this thread. Sums it up in pictures, secure interface and all matters specific to running these critters tubeless.

Did you soap up the bead before trying to inflate?

At least with the Schwalbe tubeless ready tires and the Bontrager Rhythm strips, airing up with a floor pump is easy as pie. No burping. Secure and bombproof. Personally, I wouldn't want any less underneath me by trying it just with tape.

BB


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## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

*Have you had a flat with the rim strips yet?*

I tore a side wall in a maxxis IKON last week. Stans would not plug the hole, so I had to install a tire boot and tube. I could not remove the the rim strip so I had to leave it in place. I was afraid of getting a flat from leaving the strip in place, but I got lucky I guess. That is my only concern with the bontrager strips, is that they are hard to remove and they have some sharp surfaces. Otherwise, they have been bomproof and I have had no burping over the past three months.



BruceBrown said:


> Do you have the strips from Bontrager? They turn the rim into a nice UST interface - or as close as one needs to get. It also makes the tire bead a very tight and secure fit. I continue to recommend them simply for the safety factor and, well - see post #131 in this thread. Sums it up in pictures, secure interface and all matters specific to running these critters tubeless.
> 
> Did you soap up the bead before trying to inflate?
> 
> ...


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have removed a rimstrip by inserting a punch under it by going through the valve hole and lifting up then working it off the rim. I would think that a tube would work with the rim strip though.

As far as the tire mounting thing goes, I have mounted wire bead Stouts on Stans rims with no tools and until just recently, they were about as heavy duty as it got. I admit that all but one of my wheelsets are Stans. But my road wheels are many brands and they have narrow channels.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Alpenglow said:


> I tore a side wall in a maxxis IKON last week. Stans would not plug the hole, so I had to install a tire boot and tube. I could not remove the the rim strip so I had to leave it in place. I was afraid of getting a flat from leaving the strip in place, but I got lucky I guess. That is my only concern with the bontrager strips, is that they are hard to remove and they have some sharp surfaces. Otherwise, they have been bomproof and I have had no burping over the past three months.


No, I have not had a flat yet. Actually, I haven't had a flat - knock on wood - on any of my bikes this year or last year. Maybe I'm due...

I have removed the strips only once (when I moved them from my Blunt rims to the light-bicycle rims). I think I just inserted a small headed screwdriver in the valve hole, lifted that section up a bit and got my finger under the strip to remove it. And I have no tape under the strip, so doing that and using a tube is not an option for me. I only carry a tube on events such as a 50 mile race and would have inserted the tube over the strip after removing the tubeless valve.

BB


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## KMan (Dec 30, 2003)

Question about using the the LB wider rims in general as I was planning on building up a set of LB wheels over the winter. Right now I'm using some of the older (original) Stans rims with Schwalbe NN 2.25 tires. Bike is an Asylum (which is pretty much the same as the Titus racer X 29er). I'm pretty much maxed out on my rear wheel clearance. Will using the LB wide 29er rims increase my tire width at all or just flatten out the profile keeping the overall tire width the same??

Michael


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

KMan said:


> Question about using the the LB wider rims in general as I was planning on building up a set of LB wheels over the winter. Right now I'm using some of the older (original) Stans rims with Schwalbe NN 2.25 tires. Bike is an Asylum (which is pretty much the same as the Titus racer X 29er). I'm pretty much maxed out on my rear wheel clearance. Will using the LB wide 29er rims increase my tire width at all or just flatten out the profile keeping the overall tire width the same??
> 
> Michael


Which Stans rims? Flows?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Alpenglow said:


> I tore a side wall in a maxxis IKON last week. Stans would not plug the hole, so I had to install a tire boot and tube. I could not remove the the rim strip so I had to leave it in place. I was afraid of getting a flat from leaving the strip in place, but I got lucky I guess. That is my only concern with the bontrager strips, is that they are hard to remove and they have some sharp surfaces. Otherwise, they have been bomproof and I have had no burping over the past three months.


I did one of mine with just yellow tape and a brand new WTB Werewolf LT. It lasted just long enough for me to try it on the trail, when it burped and lost all of its air.

My rear is a Bontrager Jones ACX with a bontrager symmetrical rim strip, and it's held up 100% so far for about 2 months.

Now, all of my spare bike parts are in deep storage, along with my Bontrager rim strip and compressor. I guess I have to wait until I buy a new house and move in before converting to tubeless. :madman:


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Just got my tubular carbon 88s built up from light-bicycle after being impressed with the quality of the 29er wheels that I built up from them;

Here's a pic in-case anyone is interested in what their other wheels look like;
tubularfiran | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## KMan (Dec 30, 2003)

I have a general question on the LB wide rims. I am currently using a wheelset with Stans original 29er rims...maybe 2nd generation. Tires are Schwalbe NN 2.25's. Bike is an Asylum (which is pretty much a Titus Racer X 29er). With this current setup I have pretty much maxed out my rear tire clearance....any wider and tires will be rubbing the stays. Will the wider LB rim change the actual tire width any or will it just "flatten" the tire profile providing more contact area?

I was planning on building up a wheelset over the winter, but I better make sure I won't run into any tire clearance issues 1st.

Thanks,
Michael


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

My experiences with wider rims show that the tire will be wider, not only have a more square profile. 

For example I gained about 2.5mm in width (0.1") when moving from a Mavic EN521 (21mm internal, normal "deep" bead) to a Flow EX (25.5mm internal, BST bead), on a Butcher SX tire (2.3" claimed width - actual more 2.35).


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## KMan (Dec 30, 2003)

BruceBrown said:


> Which Stans rims? Flows?


Flows?.....I said they were "older" rims 
The rims are Stans ZTR 355's - Mike from Odd's & Endos's built them if that tells you hold old they are.


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## TwoWheelMan (Jan 5, 2009)

I've read this thread (ok skimmed some) with great interest.
Does anyone have experience with rims or wheelsets from Yoeleo? Yoeleo - Bicycle - Carbon Bicycle - Bike - Carbon Bike

Besides 30mm wide 29er rims, they also have 23mm wide road rims which I also am interested in.

Yoeleo is also in Xiamen, it seems. I wonder if these web portals (yoeleo, light-bicycle, etc) are fronts for a smaller number of manufacturing facilities.

Thoughts on yoeleo?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

KMan said:


> Flows?.....I said they were "older" rims
> The rims are Stans ZTR 355's - Mike from Odd's & Endos's built them if that tells you hold old they are.


Yes, moving to a rim with a wider inner rim width profile will indeed increase the width of the casing from a narrower rim (such as the 355's). All things being equal (your current tires) and switching to the wider LB AM rims, you will see casing width "expand" compared to the 355's. How much? Who knows? Maybe a mm or two or three.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

delete


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> The oddest thing about ordering those strips is they are sent in a "HUGE" cardboard box. Not sure why, but it's odd.
> 
> BB




They didn't want to crease them. :nono:


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

*Tried to "Bortis Yelltzen" my cracked rim*

Took the steps documented by BY a couple pages back on fixing cracked rims. Only have a couple of rides on it but happy with the results thus far. Who knows how long it will last but worth a try.
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/26in-chinese-carbon-all-mountain-rim-769498-7.html#post9757952

Here is a link and a pic of the fix. If this works for the long term, I will have to buy Bortis a beer or two...


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

dutchct said:


> Failed today on the shore....


Just had a failure today of my rear rim similar to the one above. One spot looks like the above picture and another that looks a bit worse with more chipping. I was running a 2.5 Maxxis Mobster DH (dual ply!!) tubeless with around 30 psi. Hit a square edge rock pretty hard on a downhill on my Chilcotin. I only built these up at the beginning of July and have about two dozen rides in on them. Gotta say I'm a little disappointed that they didn't hold up longer.

Anyone having any luck warrantying these things (sorry, thread length exceeds attention span)? I'm guessing I'll have to try Bortis's epoxy fix. BTW, nice write up, Bortis!


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

fanderson said:


> Just had a failure today of my rear rim similar to the one above. One spot looks like the above picture and another that looks a bit worse with more chipping. I was running a 2.5 Maxxis Mobster DH (dual ply!!) tubeless with around 30 psi. Hit a square edge rock pretty hard on a downhill on my Chilcotin. I only built these up at the beginning of July and have about two dozen rides in on them. Gotta say I'm a little disappointed that they didn't hold up longer.
> 
> Anyone having any luck warrantying these things (sorry, thread length exceeds attention span)? I'm guessing I'll have to try Bortis's epoxy fix. BTW, nice write up, Bortis!


I wonder how other carbon rims would have handled the hit. Would Enve's have shrugged it off? I think an aluminum rim would have dented, though a crescent wrench would have mostly fixed it. I have 2 sets of Nancy rims... these pics make me nervous:eekster:


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well considering that an aluminum DownHill rim would weigh about twice as much and probably still would have dented, I am not too worried.


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## utah joe (Sep 16, 2008)

I had a nearly identical crack in mine after a similar incident. I refilled the tire and finished the race I was in with the cracked rim. They sent me a free rim, only had to pay the shipping. So no complaints here. Since the racing season was still in full swing, I did not have time to rebuild the wheel. I sealed the crack with 5min epoxy, reinstalled the tire and put another 400 miles on it with no issues.


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## fastback67 (Apr 6, 2010)

Great thread !!

They have a 330g MTB 29er rim on their website now:
MTB 29er carbon rim(MC-R29er) - Detailed info for MTB 29er carbon rim(MC-R29er),carbon rim,MTB 29er carbon rim(MC-R29er),MC-R29er on Alibaba.com

Is it really a MTB rim, or just a 700C for racing ?
Is this the same company ? (cannot find the 330g rim on light-bicycle.com)


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> Well considering that an aluminum DownHill rim would weigh about twice as much and probably still would have dented, I am not too worried.


That point of view is logical if approaching this discussion as a pissing content.

But if using this discussion to determine what these rims are capable of, status reports like this are incredibly valuable. We need to know if people have had rim failures, and if so, what caused the failures. I appreciate being able to come to this thread and read about how these rims perform in a variety of scenarios.


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

Gunnar-man said:


> Took the steps documented by BY a couple pages back on fixing cracked rims. Only have a couple of rides on it but happy with the results thus far. Who knows how long it will last but worth a try.
> http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/26in-chinese-carbon-all-mountain-rim-769498-7.html#post9757952
> 
> Here is a link and a pic of the fix. If this works for the long term, I will have to buy Bortis a beer or two...


The original patch we did has been holding together well (the epoxy) but the invisible damage was greater than we thought and the cracking has propagated almost to the spoke bed. I am going to continue to ride it but I am also going to start the warranty process if I can.

JMH


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well dfiler, that might be true in some circumstances, but this is in a 29er equipment thread and it wasn't even a 29er rim since almost no downhillers use 29er wheels. After reading this entire thread it looks like the failure modes are: 1.too much air pressure, 2.hitting somewhat sharp rocks at decent speed (I think there were 4 or 5 of those) 3.quality control issues with the drilling that caused delamination. I think there were 2 of those. 4.early problems with bead seats that seem not to have occured since around July.

So my point is that for most normal usage these rims are turning out to be pretty good quality especially considering the price. I am not saying that we don't want reports of these type of failures, just commenting that these are not going to come into play for most. I have one that I have been beating on for around 200 miles now and have had zero issues so I am ordering 3 more. Also, I have noticed over time that the weights seem to be coming down to around 380-390 and getting more consistent.

These rims are very close the Flow's in that the inner lip of the bead seat is 23 on these and 22.6 on Flows but even with a Bontrager rim strip these rims are about 100 grams less per wheel. The new Flow EX will be wider at the lip but also about 25 grams heavier than the old Flows. A Flow would be that rim that had this not been available would be the most likely to replace in the application that the failure occurred. Pointing out that it might also have been damaged is not illogical. I am not easy on rims, I have bent a Crest and blown a tire completely off a Stan's rim on both sides at once with the rim in the middle of the tire by hitting a solid rock berm going faster than I should have been. Both instances were pilot error.


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## mashraf (Jun 28, 2006)

well, I debated this long and hard and decided not to go down the route of the chinese rims based on:

Total cost of a chinese wheelset - £550-600
Enve wheelset XC rims laced onto DT Swiss 240s Hubs (brand new set found on German ebay site) - £1200

In the UK, I will find it impossible to sell a second hand pair of chinese wheels in 24 months, whereas the Enve set will probably fetch £500-650. Based on my simple maths, its a break even scenario so I went for the Enve wheeset.


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## Art.C (Oct 1, 2012)

I agree with you on the analysis the rim based on the posted results. 

The failure reports have increased my confidence in these rims over time. The trend here seems to be that they are at or below the failure rate of 'comparable' carbon rims. I am of course not referring to Enve as they seem faultless, price aside. I have read more than one person here say that they do not seem quite as stiff as Enve, but very close. I would likely never notice a difference like that and would easily brush aside given the price difference.

I plan on finally putting my order in this week after months of keeping up with this thread. I will of course report on it when I have enough info worth giving.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

mashraf said:


> well, I debated this long and hard and decided not to go down the route of the chinese rims based on:
> 
> Total cost of a chinese wheelset - £550-600
> Enve wheelset XC rims laced onto DT Swiss 240s Hubs (brand new set found on German ebay site) - £1200
> ...


Good logic here, although you may not have to go the ENVE route. The Reynolds rims are quite good at about 2/3 the price of ENVE, and good warranty, etc.. Much better route than the chinese "experimental" rims, imho. :skep:


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

What about the Specialized Roval SL wheels ? Price / quality unbeatable.

Stiff, light, wide rims, DT Swiss hubs and easy , toolfree conversion to most standards.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

madskatingcow said:


> What about the Specialized Roval SL wheels ? Price / quality unbeatable.
> 
> Stiff, light, wide rims, DT Swiss hubs and easy , toolfree conversion to most standards.


Yet another good alternative. I'm not bashing the cheap rims necessarily, but I really think this is an area where you get what you pay for.


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

madskatingcow said:


> What about the Specialized Roval SL wheels ? Price / quality unbeatable.
> 
> Stiff, light, wide rims, DT Swiss hubs and easy , toolfree conversion to most standards.


Ive looked at those too 900 quid here compared to 1200 or more for the next sort up. Im willing to give them a try if they have a good review....anyone seen one?


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

I have the Roval SL's 142+ 2012 - really great wheels. Never had any issues with the hubs or rims. Still as true as day one.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

The logic is iffy if you change the assumptions.
1. The Chi-carb will have value after two years, just not the same as a branded wheelset. 
2. Rims and spokes are disposable and may not last two years. 

The value after two years may solely be based on the hub.


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## mashraf (Jun 28, 2006)

Simplemind said:


> Good logic here, although you may not have to go the ENVE route. The Reynolds rims are quite good at about 2/3 the price of ENVE, and good warranty, etc.. Much better route than the chinese "experimental" rims, imho. :skep:


Yes I would have gone down the Reynolds route (had no intention of buying into Enve) but it was a bargain hence why I went for it.

They arrived yesterday and true to the sellers word, they are brand new and im delighted.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

<deleted>


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

> Good logic here, although you may not have to go the ENVE route. The Reynolds rims are quite good at about 2/3 the price of ENVE, and good warranty, etc.. Much better route than the chinese "experimental" rims, imho. :skep:


Not to pick on you personally, but posts like this bring up an interesting facet of this discussion.

The thread title is indicative of a cultural bias that is likely present in many people, whether they know it or not. We tend to lump all "Chinese" products together, with little acknowledgement that there are specific and named companies selling these products. We do the same with the"Chinese" language, completely ignoring that there is really not any such thing. There are multiple languages, only some of which are fairly similar.

At least here in the states, just the mention of China or Chinese seems to be rather galvanizing. Many people have a rather irrational hatred for China and use "Chinese" as an insult when describing things. It's almost like the fact that something is Chinese becomes the only distinguishing characteristic once it is noted at all. This is despite the fact that a good percentage of everything we buy is made in China. Yet we only say something is made in China when wanting to describe something negatively.

I find myself guilty of this at times. Somebody will ask what type of rims I have, and I'll say "cheap chinese carbon rims". This is pretty idiotic behavior on my part. I should really just tell them the name of the company that makes the rims. Do people riding Enve rims answser that question with "expensive american rims"?

I am now making a pact with myself to avoid this possibly racist tendency and from here forward, to answer the question with the actual name of the company, "light-bicycle" wider carbon rims.

*Would it be possible to change the thread title to actually indicate the company and product that we're talking about?* This doesn't have to be like decades past where mainstream American culture didn't even bother learning the names of minorities and instead just used terms like "chinaman". Yeah, I'm pointing an accusational finger directly at us, the mountain biking community. We need to shape up and refer to Chinese products by their actual names, rather than just calling them "Chinese".


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Whether you know it or not.*

If you ride a carbon fiber frame, most likely it's made in China. I've purchased a couple of road frames and a 29er full suspension frame, 29er rims, bars and bottle cages from a couple of Chinese vendors. For the most part the process has been simple and the vendors have been responsive.

I will agree that the ENVE stuff is out of this world. My local wheelbuilder visited ENVE and raved about their engineers and testing. That said, I went to school and worked on several high energy physics experiments with Chinese students and PhDs. They were well trained and exceedingly hard working. I have no doubt that the Chinese carbon stuff is as good as 90% of what's out there, simply because it is 90% of what's out there.

Honestly, I doubt that any of us would like to have a large carbon fiber assembly plant in our neighborhood, nor would we want the jobs that go with that plant. The fact is that for labor intensive industries as well as those that create harmful byproducts we can't nor should we try to compete. Currently China leads the world in low wages and not giving a [email protected] about the environment. I don't want to live in a country like that and China won't stay that way for long.


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## Climber999 (May 2, 2009)

I pored over this thread and eventually decided to go the ENVE route. Sure, the LB rims are much less expensive, which was naturally temping, but the failures that I've seen here, the shabby drills holes - at least some of them -- and the questionable warranty policy of shipping cost and up-charges turned the tide. 

If I didn't have the funds, I would go LB, but since I have the extra $1,000...If the EVNE AM rims are good as I hope, a set of XC will follow for my prodigious MX. 

Cheers you all...


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

nbwallace said:


> I have no doubt that the Chinese carbon stuff is as good as 90% of what's out [their = strike thru] _there_, simply because it *is* [identical to = strike thru] 90% of what's out there.


Fixed it for ya :thumbsup:


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Sorry about that*

My clients would hate me if I wrote that way. I'm usually pretty careful.



Pau11y said:


> Fixed it for ya :thumbsup:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

nbwallace said:


> My clients would hate me if I wrote that way. I'm usually pretty careful.


I was only being cheeky


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## mashraf (Jun 28, 2006)

dfiler said:


> Not to pick on you personally, but posts like this bring up an interesting facet of this discussion.
> 
> The thread title is indicative of a cultural bias that is likely present in many people, whether they know it or not. We tend to lump all "Chinese" products together, with little acknowledgement that there are specific and named companies selling these products. We do the same with the"Chinese" language, completely ignoring that there is really not any such thing. There are multiple languages, only some of which are fairly similar.
> 
> ...


totally agree with your view on this. my decision to not go with the LB wheels was solely based on the assumption that Enve / Reynolds wheels would have gone through a 'QC' process which is stricter than the LB wheels. The word to note is assumption and its ultimately down to a personal view/preference/cash!

I cant wait to go out for a ride now, so taken half days leave on friday.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Are the folks using the Rhythm rim strips using a 29 inch version? I clicked through to the Bontrager site, but they only show Rhythm version in 26 inch. The 29 inch version in stock are for RLX rims, which are narrower if my memory serves me?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

mashraf said:


> totally agree with your view on this. my decision to not go with the LB wheels was solely based on the assumption that Enve / Reynolds wheels would have gone through a 'QC' process which is stricter than the LB wheels. The word to note is assumption and its ultimately down to a personal view/preference/cash!
> 
> I cant wait to go out for a ride now, so taken half days leave on friday.


Ya know, LB did publish their testing metrics, and I've yet to see Reynolds or Enve do the same. I'm just saying...how do you know it's "stricter"? Did you come to that conclusion based on their price tag, or did you see their testing metrics?

Not being confrontational here...I'm genuinely curious.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Ya know, LB did publish their testing metrics, and I've yet to see Reynolds or Enve do the same. I'm just saying...how do you know it's "stricter"? Did you come to that conclusion based on their price tag, or did you see their testing metrics?
> 
> Not being confrontational here...I'm genuinely curious.


I think the assumption is based on the old saying "strong, light, cheap; pick two".


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

InertiaMan Their stock is out of the 29er Rhythm about half the time. I think people from this thread have tripled demand lately.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> Ya know, LB did publish their testing metrics


Link?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Link?


Doh, my bad! I think it was DengFu bikes...I was looking for their 26er full squishy specs. Instead I came up on this page: download

I distinctly recall a rim test report. Lemme go look at home, maybe I still have the download floating around. But like these, it was a jpg of their testing form.

As for LB, they have this up: Spoke tension report for 650b rims - light-bicycle


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Adroit Rider said:


> I think the assumption is based on the old saying "strong, light, cheap; pick two".


A saying coined by a guy who saw his business being undercut by copied asian made products that were, cheaper, as strong, and as light as his products.

Light, cheap, strong, bling: pick three.

There are loads of cheap, light and strong parts and frames out there.


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## agentorangemen (Aug 5, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> Doh, my bad! I think it was DengFu bikes...I was looking for their 26er full squishy specs. Instead I came up on this page: download
> 
> I distinctly recall a rim test report. Lemme go look at home, maybe I still have the download floating around. But like these, it was a jpg of their testing form.
> 
> As for LB, they have this up: Spoke tension report for 650b rims - light-bicycle


That post contains just two data points showing what I would deem as in improper way to measure nipple pull out force and give maximum spoke tension guidelines.

In this configuration you are going to have bending of the rim section as well as "nipple pull out" damage accumulation. The evidence of bending is in the nonlinear load vs. crosshead displacement curve. The evidence of damage accumultion is the crack pop-in event associated with the load drop at ~ 300 kgf.

An appropriate test would be to fixture the rim section rigidly to the t-table near the spoke hole of interest and actually pull a nipple and threaded spoke through the hole with gripping on the spoke itself. If spoke elongation or nipple failure is a problem before rim failure then you've found the weakest link and the nipple holes are strong enough.

Testing like this brings into question proper quality control metrics and data tracking/interpretation.

These rims are now off the table for me.

Thank you for the post Pauly.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

If anything though, the testing jig results in a harsher test. Mounting the jig closer to the spoke hole would result in less deformation of the rim and thus, probably a higher rated pull-out force.

This type of testing might actually be preferable. Individual spokes can put a tensile load on the rim while the adjacent spokes remain more slack. This mimics the load put on a wheel when stressed laterally during a hard sideways landing. Drive side and non-drive-side spokes for lateral loads, leading vs trailing while braking and strikes to spokes from foreign objects, all result in a loads mimicked by the pictured light bicycle testing jig that holds the test rim near the two adjacent spoke holes.

I do agree with your point that a more accurate test would be to pull on a spoke rather than pushing on something threaded through the outer side of the nipple. But as long as the spoke fully threads through the nipple head, which mine do, the tests are then identical. The discrepancy only matters when short spokes are used and not threaded all the way through the nipple head. Of course I'm assuming that nipples deform prior to any deformation of the threaded end of the spoke.

If there is an issue to be had with that testing setup, it is that the spoke appears to be perpendicular to the rim. In real life, they come out at an angle. With that said though, it isn't possible to confirm this flaw from the provided photo. The exact angle being tested can't really be discerned from the photo.

My guess is that the Light Bicycle engineers know what they're doing. Other than the nationality of the Light Bicycle, is there a reason to suspect that their design or testing process is less rigorous than at other companies?


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

dfiler said:


> My guess is that the Light Bicycle engineers know what they're doing. Other than the nationality of the Light Bicycle, is there a reason to suspect that their design or testing process is less rigorous than at other companies?


Well, that's just what it is...a guess.
I know for a fact that LB drills the spoke holes, and while you might say "so what", there is a significant difference in hoop strength (the strength around the spoke hole) compared to a molded hole (ENVE, and others). In a molded hole, the reinforcing fibers are distributed around the hole rather than being cut through by a drill bit :nono:. It's a much more difficult molding process when the holes are molded, and the mold cost is higher. This was the single factor that kept me from giving these rims a serious thought. Again, you get what you pay for.


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## newportl (Apr 20, 2010)

Simplemind said:


> Well, that's just what it is...a guess.
> I know for a fact that LB drills the spoke holes, and while you might say "so what", there is a significant difference in hoop strength (the strength around the spoke hole) compared to a molded hole. In a molded hole, the reinforcing fibers are distributed around the hole rather than being cut through by a drill bit :nono:. It's a much more difficult molding process when the holes are molded, and the mold cost is higher. This was the single factor that kept me from giving these rims a serious thought. Again, you get what you pay for.


So does Easton : Gallery: Easton Haven Carbon All-mountain Wheelset Launched - BikeRadar


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## agentorangemen (Aug 5, 2005)

dfiler said:


> My guess is that the Light Bicycle engineers know what they're doing. Other than the nationality of the Light Bicycle, is there a reason to suspect that their design or testing process is less rigorous than at other companies?


The reasoning to suspect their design and testing procedures was provided by LB; the evidence as to how they determine their maximum spoke tension in a brittle material was the only deciding factor.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

newportl said:


> So does Easton : Gallery: Easton Haven Carbon All-mountain Wheelset Launched - BikeRadar


Yep, at least they did in 2010, in Tijuana. I think the Easton wheels, except for their hubs, have a pretty good reputation.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Simplemind said:


> Well, that's just what it is...a guess.
> I know for a fact that LB drills the spoke holes, and while you might say "so what", there is a significant difference in hoop strength (the strength around the spoke hole) compared to a molded hole (ENVE, and others). In a molded hole, the reinforcing fibers are distributed around the hole rather than being cut through by a drill bit :nono:. It's a much more difficult molding process when the holes are molded, and the mold cost is higher. This was the single factor that kept me from giving these rims a serious thought. Again, you get what you pay for.


Enve certainly claims that molded holes are superior. They probably are. But if these rims aren't failing at the eyelets, then this isn't a factor.

Do we know if drilled eyelets result in more problems than molded eyelets? Or could it be an unsubstantiated or exaggerated marketing claim? For example, straight pull spokes are theoretically stronger. Yet everyone seems perfectly happy with the strength of standard j-bend spokes. The same could be true for drilled eyelets in carbon rims. So the honest question is... is there any evidence that drilled holes are a problem?

What concerns me more about light bicycle rims are that the eyelets are drilled perfectly perpendicular. This results in more localized stress on the nipple, spoke, and rim. It also results in bent spoke ends. But again, is this actually a problem? I honestly don't know but my guess is that it doesn't matter, just like j-bend spokes.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Simplemind said:


> Yep, at least they did in 2010, in Tijuana. I think the Easton wheels, except for their hubs, have a pretty good reputation.


So if Easton wheels/rims have a good reputation and they drill their rims, why should this point of view not be attached to the LB rims. I suspect that if LB had Easton stickers slapped all over their rims people would not question the strength and build quality and would be willing to pay more for them. Again we are back to the view that they are Chinese so inferior in some way.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I believe LB and everyone else (which is almost everyone else) that drills the holes compensates by making that part of the rim thicker and that is why your nipples don't stick out quite as much as they would on an Enve wheel. That lets Enve wheels be relatively lighter all else being equal.

That being said, Enve rims cost over $800 each and LB rims are less than $200 each landed. The marginal difference to me is nowhere near the marginal cost difference. Most of the rest of the industry including Zipp drill their holes in most of their rims and the practice of molding them is a recent development as the skills necessary to do this have just been developed.

The other side of the argument is that if I had over $1600 worth of rims on my bike I might be too afraid of damaging the rims to do all the stuff I do. I can ride the cr#p out of these and so what if I break a $200 rim every couple of years. I will have way more fun trying to tear these up than worrying I might scratch my Enve logo up.


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## Jimmy V (Nov 7, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> I believe LB and everyone else (which is almost everyone else) that drills the holes compensates by making that part of the rim thicker and that is why your nipples don't stick out quite as much as they would on an Enve wheel. That lets Enve wheels be relatively lighter all else being equal.
> 
> That being said, Enve rims cost over $800 each and LB rims are less than $200 each landed. The marginal difference to me is nowhere near the marginal cost difference. Most of the rest of the industry including Zipp drill their holes in most of their rims and the practice of molding them is a recent development as the skills necessary to do this have just been developed.
> 
> The other side of the argument is that if I had over $1600 worth of rims on my bike I might be too afraid of damaging the rims to do all the stuff I do. I can ride the cr#p out of these and so what if I break a $200 rim every couple of years. I will have way more fun trying to tear these up than worrying I might scratch my Enve logo up.


Well put!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

agentorangemen said:


> That post contains just two data points showing what I would deem as in improper way to measure nipple pull out force and give maximum spoke tension guidelines.
> 
> In this configuration you are going to have bending of the rim section as well as "nipple pull out" damage accumulation. The evidence of bending is in the nonlinear load vs. crosshead displacement curve. The evidence of damage accumultion is the crack pop-in event associated with the load drop at ~ 300 kgf.
> 
> ...


Not questioning your kung-fu here, because I don't do failure analysis as a professional, but if I'm testing when a nipple pulls out (as in rim failure), what would I care if spokes or nipples break/crack? Wouldn't I ultimately want to see if the rim will give at their rated kgf, and how many factors of safety I can get before it gives?


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

yourdaguy said:


> I believe LB and everyone else (which is almost everyone else) that drills the holes compensates by making that part of the rim thicker and that is why your nipples don't stick out quite as much as they would on an Enve wheel. That lets Enve wheels be relatively lighter all else being equal.
> 
> That being said, Enve rims cost over $800 each and LB rims are less than $200 each landed. The marginal difference to me is nowhere near the marginal cost difference. Most of the rest of the industry including Zipp drill their holes in most of their rims and the practice of molding them is a recent development as the skills necessary to do this have just been developed.
> 
> The other side of the argument is that if I had over $1600 worth of rims on my bike I might be too afraid of damaging the rims to do all the stuff I do. I can ride the cr#p out of these and so what if I break a $200 rim every couple of years. I will have way more fun trying to tear these up than worrying I might scratch my Enve logo up.


nipples don't stick out of an Enve rim
the hole is only as big as the spoke 
Its a small point but just saying

Sj


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

yourdaguy said:


> That being said, Enve rims cost over $800 each and LB rims are less than $200 each landed.


Human nature to justify our decisions. I had a set on order, but when I started seeing the number and type of failures on this thread, I decided that the hassle factor with rebuild and warranty was just not worth it TO ME. I only chimed in to articulate one person's perspective.



Jimmy V said:


> Well put!


Well put indeed!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

*fact check*



yourdaguy said:


> I believe LB and everyone else (which is almost everyone else) that drills the holes compensates by making that part of the rim thicker and that is why your nipples don't stick out quite as much as they would on an Enve wheel. That lets Enve wheels be relatively lighter all else being equal.


1) ENVE wheels use internal nipples, so they don't stick out at all.
2) My "wider" 29er rims are as light as the 18mm ID ENVE XC rims and *over 50g each lighter* than the comparable (width wise) ENVE AM rims.

ut:


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> 1) ENVE wheels use internal nipples, so they don't stick out at all.
> 2) My "wider" 29er rims are as light as the 18mm ID ENVE XC rims and *over 50g each lighter* than the comparable (width wise) ENVE AM rims.
> 
> ut:


According to the claimed weights on their websites, it seems that the companies are producing wheels that are pretty much comparable in terms of weight given the internal width.

LB 29XC 21mm internal width = 370g
ENVE 29XC 18mm internal width = 385g
LB 29wider 23mm internal width = 390g
LB 29wider+stronger 23mm internal width = 420g
ENVE 29AM 24mm internal width = 440g


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> According to the claimed weights on their websites, it seems that the companies are producing wheels that are pretty much comparable in terms of weight given the internal width.
> 
> LB 29XC 21mm internal width = 370g
> ENVE 29XC 18mm internal width = 385g
> ...


OK... so then maybe you can explain his claim that ENVE wheels are relatively lighter due to the increased spoke bed thickness, all else equal, even though the rims are heavier.
TIA :thumbsup:


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## Climber999 (May 2, 2009)

dfiler said:


> According to the claimed weights on their websites, it seems that the companies are producing wheels that are pretty much comparable in terms of weight given the internal width.
> 
> LB 29XC 21mm internal width = 370g
> ENVE 29XC 18mm internal width = 385g
> ...


You should take into account the 35g of Bonti strip an LB rim requires, whereas with an ENVE you can use a Gorila tape (17g) or even Stan's (5g).


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

OK, I'll chime in again. Again, imho, the greatest benefit of carbon rims for a 29er application is lateral stiffness, not weight. So the argument about a couple of grams difference is a moot point, at least TO ME.



Climber999 said:


> You should take into account the 35g of Bonti strip an LB rim requires, whereas with an ENVE you can use a Gorila tape (17g) or even Stan's (5g).


Good point!


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Climber999 said:


> You should take into account the 35g of Bonti strip an LB rim requires, whereas with an ENVE you can use a Gorila tape (17g) or even Stan's (5g).


My LB wheels sealed fine with a floor pump and one layer of Gorilla Tape, and have never burped.

Not sure your point is valid at all.


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## Climber999 (May 2, 2009)

broadwayline said:


> My LB wheels sealed fine with a floor pump and one layer of Gorilla Tape, and have never burped.
> 
> Not sure your point is valid at all.


Well, maybe not. But when I pored over this thread many vowed that only the Bonti strip worked well. Of course, LB might have changed the profile of the bead a bit.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Climber999 said:


> Well, maybe not. But when I pored over this thread many vowed that only the Bonti strip worked well. Of course, LB might have changed the profile of the bead a bit.


The argument for the Bonti strip is based on intended use,which is all mountain, aggressive. For xc/short track less is fine (per the thread).


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Simplemind said:


> Human nature to justify our decisions. I had a set on order, but when I started seeing the number and type of failures on this thread, I decided that the hassle factor with rebuild and warranty was just not worth it TO ME. I only chimed in to articulate one person's perspective.


Um... not to be a dick, but you do realized that it _sounds_ like you're on the "cheap" thread justifying your premium purchase...TO ME...?


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Climber999 said:


> You should take into account the 35g of Bonti strip an LB rim requires, whereas with an ENVE you can use a Gorila tape (17g) or even Stan's (5g).


There have been many people, in this thread, that have posted they have used Gorilla tape and Stan's tape.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Climber999 said:


> You should take into account the 35g of Bonti strip an LB rim requires, whereas with an ENVE you can use a Gorila tape (17g) or even Stan's (5g).


The discussion involved comparing the design, weight and strength of ENVE vs LB. But yeah, from a weight weenie perspective, rim tape would have to be considered too. With that said, I've had no problems with a single layer of Stan's tape on my LB rims.

In this thread there has been a vocal proponent of using Bonti strips. But other people have made it clear that Stan's tape was sufficient for them. Put simply, Bonti strips are not required on LB rims.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> The argument for the Bonti strip is based on intended use,which is all mountain, aggressive. For xc/short track less is fine (per the thread).


Stan's tape has been fine for me. No burbs yet when riding aggressive all mountain on a canfield nimble 9. I ride downhill whenever possible so when I say aggressive all mountain, it isn't some naive xc rider not realizing that they aren't really being that abusive to their bike. Trust me, my entire bike flexes when G'd out, landing a jump or monster trucking through football sized rocks. I'm not downhilling on this bike but there isn't much more abuse that I could dish out without having more suspension.

Despite being frequently advocated by one poster in this thread, Bonti strips are simply not required. They offer more insurance against burps, but they aren't necessary.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

dfiler said:


> Stan's tape has been fine for me. No burbs yet when riding aggressive all mountain on a canfield nimble 9. I ride downhill whenever possible so when I say aggressive all mountain, it isn't some naive xc rider not realizing that they aren't really being that abusive to their bike. Trust me, my entire bike flexes when G'd out, landing a jump or monster trucking through football sized rocks. I'm not downhilling on this bike but there isn't much more abuse that I could dish out without having more suspension.
> 
> Despite being frequently advocated by one poster in this thread, Bonti strips are simply not required. They offer more insurance against burps, but they aren't necessary.


What tires and PSI do you run? What is your rider weight?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Enve certainly claims that molded holes are superior. They probably are. But if these rims aren't failing at the eyelets, then this isn't a factor.
> 
> Do we know if drilled eyelets result in more problems than molded eyelets? Or could it be an unsubstantiated or exaggerated marketing claim? For example, straight pull spokes are theoretically stronger. Yet everyone seems perfectly happy with the strength of standard j-bend spokes. The same could be true for drilled eyelets in carbon rims. So the honest question is... is there any evidence that drilled holes are a problem?
> 
> What concerns me more about light bicycle rims are that the eyelets are drilled perfectly perpendicular. This results in more localized stress on the nipple, spoke, and rim. It also results in bent spoke ends. But again, is this actually a problem? I honestly don't know but my guess is that it doesn't matter, just like j-bend spokes.


One of my rims failed at the eyelets before it even saw a tire.
I posted photos... in this thread... :thumbsup:
I also posted photos of the hack drilling job of the warranty replacement rim (that I paid $40 for them to ship to me) with uneven and chipped holes.


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> What tires and PSI do you run? What is your rider weight?


Ardent 2.4 at roughly 24/26 psi and rider weight of 160lb.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Pau11y said:


> Um... not to be a dick, but you do realized that it _sounds_ like you're on the "cheap" thread justifying your premium purchase...TO ME...?


No, you're not being a D***. I'm still on flexy aluminum, and simply decided to postpone the carbon purchase until I could save up for a higher quality carbon rim. I don't like being a beta tester for any product.



meltingfeather said:


> One of my rims failed at the eyelets before it even saw a tire.
> I posted photos... in this thread... :thumbsup:
> I also posted photos of the hack drilling job of the warranty replacement rim (that I paid $40 for them to ship to me) with uneven and chipped holes.


Thanks for being a stand-up guy! :yesnod:


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## lobo7 (Mar 8, 2012)

Climber999 said:


> You should take into account the 35g of Bonti strip an LB rim requires, whereas with an ENVE you can use a Gorila tape (17g) or even Stan's (5g).


FWIW I have been using a set of the LB wide rims with one layer of gorilla tape for about 400 miles now with no burping or leaking using non UST panaracer tires. I'm stoked. I was prepared to buy the bonty strips if it turned out I needed to but I haven't at all. I've been running 26 and 28 psi front rear so far.

I just ordered a narrow set for my CX bike and will try the tape method with those as well.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Weight aside, much difference in feel in the carbon rims compared to a heavy duty rim like a Flow?


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Miker J said:


> Weight aside, much difference in feel in the carbon rims compared to a heavy duty rim like a Flow?


From a test ride only it felt as if the carbon rim produced a stiffer feeling wheel. I have 3 wheelsets using flows as the rim and thus far have been happy with them.

Noticed one flow rim looks like it is starting to oxidize on the inside from the stans fluid. Can not say 100% for sure, but none of my other alloy rims have done this in over 15 years. I would like to see if the resin used for carbon rims is reactive in any way. I know that some cheaper resins used in composites can be hygroscopic.

Personally the carbon rim looks like a viable technical option gaining added performance. The downside thus far is cost. I don't know if there are any additional downsides or not.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Miker J; I have my one wheel on the front of my Jet9 which also has the tapered steer tube. I went from Arch to this rim and the steering precision was noticeably better with the same Ardent 2.4 tire. The wheel being the only change. I built this first one up super strong with Shimano M-529 hub (that weighs around 300 grams for a front hub) and DT Alpine 3 spokes (tandem rated spokes). So this wheelset is going to weigh over 2000 grams, but be almost indestructible and the front and rear hub together cost like $62 landed. The other wheelset is going to get American Classic hubs and Revolution spokes so it will weigh around 1600 but cost about $300 more.
So I will have 2 wheelsets at more of less opposite ends of the build spectrum. So far, this M-529 Alpine 3 combo is absolutely the stiffest wheel laterally that I own. The tension is middling high at around 20 on the brake side and around 16 on the right on the Park tool which I estimate with these spokes works out to around 120 kgf. but it felt like we could have went much higher. After 200 miles of pounding, this wheel is perfect so far.

I guess I will wade into the rim strip controversy too. I have a rim strip in this wheel and when I initially built it I tried to push the bead off the end and it was much harder than on my Stan's rims. This leads me to have total confidence in the bead lock I am getting with the rim strips. I am one of the few people that has actually blown a tire completely off a Stan's rim. I was going faster than I should have and hit a rock berrm and blew an Exiwolf with 23 PSI off a Crest. It blew off both sides at once and I got stopped with the rim still inside the tire and the tire completely off on both sides. I figure that the Crest deformed enough on impact to let the bead slip off on both sides and then it just pealed all the way around. If it wouldn't have been a direct hit, it probably would have tacoed the rim but since it was a direct hit the rim flexed directly up and then sprang back after the tire started to unzip. As stiff as these rims are and as tight as the rim strip holds the tire, I am thinking that the same hit would not have affected this wheel. Anyway, I have seen all the success people are having without the rim strips and they are apparently on backorder from whoever Trek gets them from, so I am going to try the rear with tape only when I get it built. If it is easy to push the bead off when the tire is deflated, I will put extra tape to tighten it up, but if it is fairly hard to push off (like on a Stan's rim) then I will try it for a while and see how it does.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Miker J said:


> Weight aside, much difference in feel in the carbon rims compared to a heavy duty rim like a Flow?


I am no expert, but in my research the carbon rim:
Is stiffer, so it may feel like it tracks better, transfers the trail into the tire, suspension, body
Allows a higher spoke tension which aids in maintaining wheel true and longevity


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## blum585 (Mar 28, 2012)

Enve Rims come with Gorilla Tape as their rim strip - Fact.

If you blow a spoke at the head, it will likely pierce Stans tape causing a flat tire... (It's happened to me and others). The extra weight of Gorilla tape is worth the insurance.

Enve has gone on to state they have tested all rim strips purpose made for Tubeless applications and that Gorilla tape was the best option.

Tech Tuesday: Gorilla Tape Tubeless Conversion - Pinkbike

Josh


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

blum585 said:


> Enve has gone on to state they have tested all rim strips purpose made for Tubeless applications and that Gorilla tape was the best option.


ENVE's rims have a UST profile. Adding a UST-profile rim strip like the Bonty TLRs would probably render the wheel impossible to mount a tire on.
Maybe "tape" as opposed to "rim strip" is a better description of what they tried, since their rims are designed to be used with tape only, versus say a Bonty rim, which is designed to be used with a rim strip.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

They don't say why the Gorilla tape was better. I am thinking that part of the reason is that it is about 3 times as thick providing a better, tighter fit for the tire bead. I have never had a problem with Stan's tape, but I have recently converted to using Gorilla tape both for the extra thickness and the fact that it is way cheaper. Also, as in the video, I can make whatever size I need as opposed to inventorying differnt thicknesses of Stan's and then running 1" short when the roll runs out. The Gorilla tape is the way to go in my opinion.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Well, yeah...*



Climber999 said:


> Well, maybe not. But when I pored over this thread many vowed that only the Bonti strip worked well. Of course, LB might have changed the profile of the bead a bit.


but the way I see it, I'm a 208 pound guy (nekkid... let that sink in... yeah) riding a 29 pound trail bike (with the light hubs and light-bikes rims). I have a lot of heavy stuff on my bike, like Titec H-Bars and Dual Control shifters, M952 XTR cranks.

I replaced 500g rims (each) with the 395g Light Bike rims, gained a crapload of stiffness. If I still add the Bontrager rim strip and sealant, that is still about the net weight of a Lunar Lite innertube. Yeah, I could shed some weight with Stan's Yellow Tape, but I'm still 100g ahead of my old wheels... each. I tried the Yellow Tape, and it wasn't reliable for me. Every ride was interrupted with a tube installation. My one wheel with a Bontrager strip has been solid, apart from some mild leakdown over a week or so.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

Ok - finally got around to my wheels. I've weighed both of the matt UD wide AM rims (32 holes). 

I've laced them up with DT Swiss 240s, Supercomps, and Alloy nipples. I'd post pictures with weights of the final builds, but my phone is playing up. 

This is my first wheel build. So far, they're just laced up - tonight i'll start truing, stressing, and tensioning them up properly. Should be fun!


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## vapezilla (Jan 27, 2012)

Don't forget to dish. Lol hope they ride nice let me know


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

People have done it.


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

I have to say I get more and more impressed everyday by these rims, they really are close to being perfect for my use. They hold air much better than ANY notubes conversion I've tried before (they actually do not lose any air!), they do not burp air when leaning on the bike downhill (and I've burped EVERY notubes conversion I've ever used before - only true UST rims have been flawless for me), and they feel awesome on the trail, very lively due to the low rotational weight and their stiffness.

To sum it up, this is the best rim I've ever used, and I've used mavic XM719, EN321, EN521, Crossmax, ZTR Flow, ZTR Flow EX, Sun Ringle EQ29... Very stiff, truly UST with the Bonty strip, cheap for a carbon rim. I just wish LB did a very light carbon rim for my XC bike (something under 300g) now!


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## Dpca10 (Sep 13, 2012)

Someone asked earlier but no reply, are the bontrager RLX strips the same as the rhythm strips, or a narrower profile? The bontrager website only shows the rhythm strips in 26, the only 29er strips are the RLX.. If I need the rhythm can someone direct me to a source to order them, google is being uncharacteristically unhelpful


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## Dpca10 (Sep 13, 2012)

Never mind... Further research looks like the RLX strips are narrower than the rhythm. Hard to find regardless


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Dpca10 said:


> Never mind... Further research looks like the RLX strips are narrower than the rhythm. Hard to find regardless


The Bonty website only lists the 29"er Rhythm strips if they are in stock. They don't show up when they are out of stock. So keep checking back every now and then to see if that changes.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Set mine up with gorilla tape the other day. So far so good.


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## Bhorium (May 3, 2010)

I pulled the trigger on these myself, went for the wide 29" in 3k matte finish. Just received the hubs I intend to use: Superstar Tesla. 
I put the numbers in the DT Swiss spoke calc - Rim ERD: 603 Front hub: PCD 58, Flange distance left - 22, Flange distance right - 31, Rear: PCD 58, Flange distance left - 34, Flange distance right - 18. 
Both 32 holes 3x, with DT ALU 12mm nipples and DT revolution Spokes

Spoke lengths (rounded) - Front - Left: 291.20 (290), Right 292.00 (291). 
Rear - Left:292.4 (292), Right 290.90 (290)

The first time I calculated this I got different lengths, (Looks like Superstar have changed the dimensions later, but I'm not sure. Maybe I did something wrong. But now I have also measured the hubs myself). So based on my first calculations I ordered 1 pack of 290mm and 1 pack of 292mm spokes (On their way as we speak). Can I get away with these two dimensions? If so, what spoke lengths would choose for the different sides?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Bhorium said:


> I pulled the trigger on these myself, went for the wide 29" in 3k matte finish. Just received the hubs I intend to use: Superstar Tesla.
> I put the numbers in the DT Swiss spoke calc - Rim ERD: 603 Front hub: PCD 58, Flange distance left - 22, Flange distance right - 31, Rear: PCD 58, Flange distance left - 34, Flange distance right - 18.
> Both 32 holes 3x, with DT ALU 12mm nipples and DT revolution Spokes
> 
> ...


I'd use the 292s for the sides you have a rounded length of 292 on and use the 290s on the other two sides, since that's what you've got.
Is there any other way you were considering approaching it?


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

anyone taken delivery of these in Canada? mine did indeed make it from China to Canada in 4-5 days but after making 3 delivery attempts last Thursday, I have heard nothing from them...


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> I'd use the 292s for the sides you have a rounded length of 292 on and use the 290s on the other two sides, since that's what you've got.
> Is there any other way you were considering approaching it?


Wouldn't it be best to use 292 for everything except rear right(use 290 for rear right)?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pwu_1 said:


> Wouldn't it be best to use 292 for everything except rear right(use 290 for rear right)?


He already bought the spokes, which was sort of my point


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

pwu_1 said:


> Wouldn't it be best to use 292 for everything except rear right(use 290 for rear right)?


If you already own the spokes, and you're doing the work yourself, you may as well lace it up and see if it works. All you're going to lose is your time. If you're like me, it's a nice way to set fire to a couple hours of your life.

Just make sure you're grabbing enough spoke thread with the spoke nipples, but not too much.


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## Bhorium (May 3, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> I'd use the 292s for the sides you have a rounded length of 292 on and use the 290s on the other two sides, since that's what you've got.
> Is there any other way you were considering approaching it?


"Spoke lengths (rounded) - Front - Left: 291.20 (290), Right 292.00 (291). 
Rear - Left:292.4 (292), Right 290.90 (290)"

It's my first build so was mostly looking for some extra opinions. The Rear wheel with Left: 292 and Right: 290, no problem. And the Front Right 292, ok, but the left side made me a litte unsure. Was thinking it would be better to go 0.8 longer instead of 1.2 shorter. Searched a bit around and found different opinions, therefore my question.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You are fine. Some brands types of spokes only come in 2 mm increments.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

Dpca10 said:


> Never mind... Further research looks like the RLX strips are narrower than the rhythm. Hard to find regardless


These are the parts numbers for the rim strip and tubeless valve (at least in Australia). It might help you track down stock or order them in:

406892 Black 29er Rhythm Tubeless Rim Strip-Symmetric
250324 Tubeless Rim Valve


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

Right - so the wheels are built up, but now i'm having trouble mounting tires.. what's everyone else's experience been? 

So far I've tried a Maxxis crossmark, ignitor, and specialized renegade (s-works). All have been used, although not for some time, but couldn't manage to get any of them successfully on the rim - at one stage i thought i was about to snap the lever.. i was just going to mount them for a quick test.. now i think i'll wait till i've got my desired set of tires to go on

what tires are everyone else using? what combos have you failed with?


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Jubas said:


> Right - so the wheels are built up, but now i'm having trouble mounting tires.. what's everyone else's experience been?
> 
> So far I've tried a Maxxis crossmark, ignitor, and specialized renegade (s-works). All have been used, although not for some time, but couldn't manage to get any of them successfully on the rim - at one stage i thought i was about to snap the lever.. i was just going to mount them for a quick test.. now i think i'll wait till i've got my desired set of tires to go on
> 
> what tires are everyone else using? what combos have you failed with?


I used tubeless ready Nobby Nicks and had no problems. I used one layer of Stan's tape. Non TR tires may be more difficult. I don't care what people say, if a tire gives me a hard time I use a CO2 cartridge. It has never failed me or affected my sealant in my experience. I am sure someone will disagree with me shortly.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

ha - should have provided more detail.. at this stage, i'm having difficulty even getting the tires *onto* the rim!


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

try soapy water


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Jubas: please look at post 2528 and I think it will solve your problem.


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

yourdaguy said:


> Jubas: please look at post 2528 and I think it will solve your problem.


Thanks for the post - shall give it a crack. So far soapy water hasn't helped!


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## andrewmodus (Oct 20, 2012)

I would like to buy, but I'm not sure ...I intend to run tubeless on these rims Rocket Ron 2.25 (front) and WTB Nano 2.1 (rear). 
Will they be compatible? Do I expect the problem installation and operation? 
Should I buy a 23mm wide version or go for the standard 21mm?
I want to go to AC hubs and CX-Ray spokes. My weight ~ 160lbs
thanks


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

For tubeless, go wider for sure. The weight penalty is trivial but you're less likely to roll a tire and burp while cornering.

Here's an article on the topic:
Tech Tuesday


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## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

*NOVATEC hub*

Anyone have a good review for NOVATEC on prebuilt rims? I want to use this on a SS but as you know hub needs to be strong. I did a search and cannot find a review in forum or review section


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

powderturns said:


> anyone taken delivery of these in Canada? mine did indeed make it from China to Canada in 4-5 days but after making 3 delivery attempts last Thursday, I have heard nothing from them...


I only get one attempt from Canada Post to deliver to my door nad then they go to the closest outlet/depot. Have you tried calling or visiting htere?


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## 1-bar (Jun 10, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Do you have the strips from Bontrager? They turn the rim into a nice UST interface - or as close as one needs to get. It also makes the tire bead a very tight and secure fit. I continue to recommend them simply for the safety factor and, well - see post #131 in this thread. Sums it up in pictures, secure interface and all matters specific to running these critters tubeless.
> 
> Did you soap up the bead before trying to inflate?
> 
> ...


BB- How much weight is added w bonti strips?


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Hey andrewmodus.

I got the 30mm "Nancy" wheels setup with Rocket Rons tubeless. It was a trivial setup with Stans yellow tape, Stans fluid, and a floor pump. No burps or flats so far.

I don't know if it would be different for a 23 rim though. Anyone know the effect of rim width on tubeless setup?

Good luck.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Sorry! Question already answered. See dfiler's link above for width and tubeless!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## DirtRoadie (Sep 15, 2009)

bigdog100 said:


> Anyone have a good review for NOVATEC on prebuilt rims? I want to use this on a SS but as you know hub needs to be strong.


My long term data (~13 years) with limited "N" (3 sets of wheels) shows Novatec hubs to be sufficiently sturdy. I'd buy them again. Nonetheless, I'm presently waiting for a set of LB wheels built on Rotaz hubs. Call it an experiment.

But, SS typically uses HIGHER gearing than multi-speed thereby reducing driving stress on the hub, no matter what your knees may feel. Or were you referring to some other need for "strong?"


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

1-bar The Bonty strips weigh ~45 grams each. The Stan's tape weigh's around 7-8 grams. Gorilla tape probably around 18 grams depending how wide.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I have same experience as connolm, easily mounted up and pumped with floor pump.
I would recommend them, have to try first on my rock gardens.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> 1-bar The Bonty strips weigh ~45 grams each. The Stan's tape weigh's around 7-8 grams. Gorilla tape probably around 18 grams depending how wide.


Bontrager weight: 35g (strip) + 8g (valve) = 43g
NoTubes weight: 6.5g (valve) + 8.5g (Stans wide yellow tape for a 29"er run) = 15g

I really can't tell any difference when I am on the bike between a strip and valve combination that weighs a claimed 43g and one that weighs a claimed 15g. If 28g per wheel was enough to alter my on the bike performance - then I've got some serious other issues to deal with.....

We typically find as much, if not more of a weight variance in the same model of tire than 28g per tire.


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## Art.C (Oct 1, 2012)

I just ordered my two rims after waiting over two week for the rhythm strips to come back in stock. I will call the local dealers and hopefully find some that way or just go with the stans set up. I have a while before I even receive the rims and even more to have them built up.

Anyone have any links I can try to find them at? Please, do not make me have to consider riding with tubes for a while. I get like 3 flats a ride, seriously.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Meh...*



bigdog100 said:


> Anyone have a good review for NOVATEC on prebuilt rims? I want to use this on a SS but as you know hub needs to be strong. I did a search and cannot find a review in forum or review section


A geared bike can apply a crapload more torque in granny gear if a tire slips and suddenly catches. Geared bikes are harder on hubs than SS.

For instance. The Hope Pro2 geared hub has all the pawls engaging at once for 24 POI. They designed the SS hubs so only two pawls engage at once to double the engagement points, and it holds up just fine.

Check back a few pages. The Novatec hub was covered. I think the gist was that a couple people said the freehub pawl setup wears out kinda fast in hard regular use.


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## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback, I am new to SS and seems like mashing puts a lot of torque on the hub, however granny gear makes sense on steep climbs with some loss of traction and re engauge.


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Connolm - were your rims a recent purchase or do they pre-date the seating problems? Hoping it was a bad batch a few weeks ago and that they are back to seating well. Thanks



connolm said:


> Hey andrewmodus.
> 
> I got the 30mm "Nancy" wheels setup with Rocket Rons tubeless. It was a trivial setup with Stans yellow tape, Stans fluid, and a floor pump. No burps or flats so far.
> 
> ...


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## 00gauge (Nov 26, 2010)

Just completed 3 days of very hard riding at Raccoon Mountain in Chattanooga, TN. The recently built rims surved some seriously rocky descents, high speed creek crossings and 3+ foot drops. My build is completed with Chris King ISO hubs, DT swiss spokes, Bontrager strips and Maxxis Ignitor tires running tubeless with Orange Seal sealant. Call me a believer.


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

Received my rims a few nights ago. Took about three weeks from order to shipping, but the actual shipping was very fast (5 days). Only issue was that they did not leave notice as to where my parcel was being held - it had been transferred to Canada Post and was at the local office. Not sure what has changed (if anything) in their manufacturing, but my rims look awesome. Very little sanding/finishing work on these compared to what some previous photos have shown. I am stoked. Nerding out now contemplating spokes (black and silver sapim cx ray's?) and nipples (polyax brass drive side and ano blue or red non-drive side). being built onto an american classic 15mm front and a dt/roval straight pull 142+ rear...


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## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

I am running Stan's arch wheels. Anybody know if I can get away with the same spokes if I swap the hoops out for these carbons? 

Thanks


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

thehotrodpig said:


> I am running Stan's arch wheels. Anybody know if I can get away with the same spokes if I swap the hoops out for these carbons?
> 
> Thanks


I did, spokes were 1mm through the back of the nipples on one side on both wheels, so no problems as didn't run out of thread.


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## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

ruscle said:


> I did, spokes were 1mm through the back of the nipples on one side on both wheels, so no problems as didn't run out of thread.


Perfect, thank you.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

Im going to build my first wheels. What size spokes work with the wide 29 rims and a chris king rear hub?

Im putting an american classic 130 on the front, what spokes for that? 

The calculators dont have the light-bicycles rims as options 

I would be grateful if someone even just has a link in this thread to the spoke sizes.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

You just need to enter the hub and rim dimensions into the various calculators.

It's pretty damn easy. 

Seeing as the ERD of the rims has been posted MANY times on here, if you were to put a little bit of effort into it, you might be able to get the information you desire.


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## Egads (Jun 27, 2009)

I placed my order over a month ago and am still waiting on my shipment. Not a happy customer now.


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## kreater (Nov 11, 2004)

i picked up my wide 29er set at the post today, from light bicycles. they told me 15 days to produce then ship. they were done in 6 days and a week to ship up here in Canada, very satisfied. they look great going to build them this week with some dt hubs. :thumbsup


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Got mine Friday ordered less than a month ago.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Been a following this thread since the beginning. I'm finally ready to pull the trigger. 

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a good rim builder that I could get a pair of these put together for me?


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## Brisco Dog (Nov 5, 2009)

DRILLINDK said:


> Been a following this thread since the beginning. I'm finally ready to pull the trigger.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone can recommend a good rim builder that I could get a pair of these put together for me?


I used Chad at Red Barn Bicycles. This is my 4 set of wheels from him. He does great work and has an excellent reputation.


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Chad at Red Barn Bikes builds a nice wheel (real happy with all of mine) and has built up a bunch of wheels with these rims.



DRILLINDK said:


> Been a following this thread since the beginning. I'm finally ready to pull the trigger.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone can recommend a good rim builder that I could get a pair of these put together for me?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

DRILINDK Spicer Cycles does great wheels. He can get all the parts such as hubs, spokes, etc. since he ownes spicercycles.com and he is only 170 miles from St Louis in Evansville. He can get you a decent price on the parts and I think he only charges $25 for the build.


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## freebiker (Mar 19, 2006)

*wah wah*



Egads said:


> I placed my order over a month ago and am still waiting on my shipment. Not a happy customer now.


maybe we should dispatch the bicycle wambualance


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

Egads said:


> I placed my order over a month ago and am still waiting on my shipment. Not a happy customer now.


Understood. But have you contacted them for followup?

That does not seem to be the norm. I ordered complete wheels on Oct. 14, was told they need 15 working days. But I have now had a tracking number for the shipment since the end of last week. I'll post my impressions after the wheels arrive.


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## kylefoo (Oct 22, 2012)

i wonder do some guys buy rims or wheels from Far Sport?
for example, ultralight series wheels, 29er, 26er MTB clincher or tubeless compatible ones?


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

This is a very off-topic question and all but is "(to) pull the trigger" some new hip slang term?


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

leichtreiter said:


> This is a very off-topic question and all but is "(to) pull the trigger" some new hip slang term?


Nothing particularly new -Urban Dictionary: pull the trigger


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

leichtreiter said:


> This is a very off-topic question and all but is "(to) pull the trigger" some new hip slang term?


Nope - been around for a long, long time! (I'll go back as far as decades, but others may suggest more!)


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## Art.C (Oct 1, 2012)

double post


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## Art.C (Oct 1, 2012)

I pulled the trigger on the rims and they arrived today but the Trek store has been out of the strips for weeks. 

The next best thing to go tubeless is to just pull the trigger on good ol' Stans, right? Double layer it up?

I intend on using 2Bliss/UST tires since I weigh 220 lbs and they are going on my AM bike. I'll be flipping a coin between DT Swiss 240 and CK hubs.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Jubas said:


> Nope - been around for a long, long time! (I'll go back as far as decades, but others may suggest more!)


Closely related to 'Shooting your Wad'


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

Ok my final build weight came in at:

Front: 746g
Rear: 816g
Total: 1562g

The build was the wider rims, supercomp spokes, alloy nipples, and 240s hubs (OS on front, RWS on rear)

They're replacing the stock wheels on my Anthem 29er (P-XC 2s) which were:

Rear: 1026g
Front: 885g
Total: 1911g

A total saving of: 349g


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

That's not bad for that robust of a wheelset.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

thehotrodpig said:


> I am running Stan's arch wheels. Anybody know if I can get away with the same spokes if I swap the hoops out for these carbons?
> 
> Thanks





ruscle said:


> I did, spokes were 1mm through the back of the nipples on one side on both wheels, so no problems as didn't run out of thread.


Awesome. I was thinking of doing the same. :thumbsup:


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## Jubas (Sep 22, 2009)

mtbnozpikr said:


> That's not bad for that robust of a wheelset.


Yeah - I'm happy with it. I could have gone lighter with the spokes and possibly hubs, but i'm 85-90kg ready to ride, and I'm after a 'does it all' wheelset, rather than just a race-day wheelset

Took them for their first spin last night on a road ride, and the bike felt a lot snappier! Can't wait to get them on the trail on Saturday in time for a race the following weekend!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Got my first set built. Used the very heavy and bulletproof Shimano M-529 hubs and DT's strongest and also almost heaviest Alpine 3 spokes (291's) and the heaviest rims of the 4 I have painted with black appliance paint. All my rims are wide 29er 3k matte.

No skewers:
Front: 887 grams
Rear: 1040 grams

Total: 1927

Cost:
Hubs $67
spokes $73
Rims $378
Total: $518
A smokin' deal for wheels this strong and light.

I am more than happy since I was expecting around 2000.

The next set is waiting on the rear hub I am going American Classic hubs and DT Revolution spokes and figure 1600 grams or less. I painted these rims with white appliance paint.

The cost on this set will be around $300 more due to the cost of the hubs so around $800.


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> The next set is waiting on the rear hub I am going American Classic hubs and DT Revolution spokes and figure 1600 grams or less. I painted these rims with white appliance paint.


Yes, _well_ under 1600 g.
Today I received a set of complete wheels from LB.
28H, Rotaz hubs, Pillar PBA 1420 spokes (same dimensions as a Sapim CX-ray)
F 649g., R 781g. = 1430g out of the box. 
Everything looks very good.
Visually, the head height (head to elbow distance) seems to be unusually long on the Pillar spokes. But the Pillar spec for that is 6.2 mm, the same as the spec on the DT Revolutions that I usually use.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

KLF said:


> Yes, _well_ under 1600 g.
> Today I received a set of complete wheels from LB.
> 28H, Rotaz hubs, Pillar PBA 1420 spokes (same dimensions as a Sapim CX-ray)
> F 649g., R 781g. = 1430g out of the box.
> ...


Tell us more about the hubs & what axle Std's they can take ?


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## crclawn (Sep 26, 2010)

KLF, thats pretty light, also can u please tell us the POE on the Rotaz hubs?


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

muzzanic said:


> Tell us more about the hubs & what axle Std's they can take ?


The Rotaz hubs can be seen here: 
Rotaz / Chin Haur
Axles are only std. QR
And while I am not aware of a thru-axle conversion (Anybody else know?), the front looks like it would lend itself to being converted since the bearings are 15mm ID.



crclawn said:


> KLF, thats pretty light, also can u please tell us the POE on the Rotaz hubs?


POE: 6 pawl/27 tooth mechanism = 54 POE


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Trek has Rythm 29er Symmetric rim strips in stock again.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

KLF said:


> The Rotaz hubs can be seen here:
> Rotaz / Chin Haur
> Axles are only std. QR
> And while I am not aware of a thru-axle conversion (Anybody else know?), the front looks like it would lend itself to being converted since the bearings are 15mm ID.
> ...


The website you linked has a separate price/specs for a 15mm front hub but the picture is the same as the QR model.....so maybe an easy conversion although no parts are listed on that website to do the conversion.


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

Andy13 said:


> The website you linked has a separate price/specs for a 15mm front hub but the picture is the same as the QR model.....so maybe an easy conversion although no parts are listed on that website to do the conversion.


I believe the thru-axle hub shown there is not the Rotaz, but a different model of unknown origin called "MTB162." 
And I also don't see anything other than QR options at the Rotaz manufacturer's site (Rotaz / CHIN HAUR).


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Review of completed rims:

This is a comparison to Stan's rims.

Weight=Light Bikes
I would not consider using these rims tubeless without the Bontrager Rim Strips. With the Bontrager strips, these rims are actually more secure than the Stan's rims. In other words, it is harder to push the tire off the bead when deflated.These rims are currently weighing 385-390 grams. Both of my strips have weighed 44 grams so the weight of the rim and rim strip is ~432. This is basically the exact weight of a Crest with tape so the weight is a wash between the lightest Stan's rim and these if you are going to run tubeless. They basically tire with the Crest's on weight but with a much higher weight limit, and weigh less than the Flow's and the new FlowEX's.

Flotation/Width=Stan's
The width of the bead lip is stated as 23mm and the bead lip of Flow's is 22.6mm and Crest is 21mm. The new FlowEX is 25.5mm I measured the width of the carcass of a a Nevagal on a Flow at 2.2 and then measured the same tire at the same pressure after moving it to one of these rims. It measured 2.15 and if memory serves me it was just over 2.1 on a Crest. Stan's claims rightly that the shape of their lip allows the carcass of a tire to run "fatter" and so even though this rim is wider its actual useful width is between a Crest and a Flow. Milometer for milometer Stan's rims do give you a fatter running carcass.

Rider Weight Limit=depends on how much you weigh who wins this one.
Crest rims have a rider weight limit of 190 lbs. Light bikes rims have a weight limit of 264 lbs. Flows are no longer made and I couldn't find a weight limit for them. If you weigh less than 190 then you don't care. If you weight between 190 and 264 then you are probably in the Light Bike camp. Over 264 and you are in Stan's camp.

Lateral Stiffness=Light Bikes
The lateral stiffness is noticeable on my Jet9 with the tapered steering tube and the massive amount of aluminum going into the head tube. On a Sir9 with Niner Carbon Fork and a One9 with Fox non-tapered, you cold feel the difference, but not as much. I have never ridden a bike with the steering precision of my Jet and these wheels. It was noticeable at the first turn.

Durability=Light Bikes
I have tacoed a Crest rim and it didn't take a very hard hit to do it. When stress relieving the spokes, the Light Bikes rims don't make strange noises or flex excessively. I would be hesitant to pull as hard on a Crest rim as I did on these. I have had the front on for several hundred miles with no issues and they seem bullet-proof. After tacoing a Crest with a minor hit, I worry every time I ride them that I might break them. These build up very true and my experience with carbon is that if it survives the initial build and early mileage, it will be the same for a long time. Aluminum on the other hand will eventually crack and fail due to flex. I have never tacoed any of my Flow rims and they are very strong also, but aluminum is subject to stress cracking and I feel the Light Bike rims are going to be more durable. I still have carbon forks from 1990.

Conclusion: For my purposes, I think the Light Bikes rims are a slight favorite. If I needed the all out width of the new Stan's FlowEX, I could easily see accepting the approximately 115 grams weight penalty but compared to the Crest rims, these weight the same, have a higher weight limit, are stronger and will probably last longer. Also, they hold your tire a smidge wider too. Compared to the Flow's they are enough lighter that the small difference in tire width is negated. If someone asked my for rim advice, I would tell them if you want wide go with the Light Bike rims, if you want really really wide get FlowEX.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Yourdaguy,
Wow, with Stan's website listing the crest at 380g, that's a huge difference from your stated ~432g w/ Stan's tape. Are the Stan's 29er Crest rims you weighed really coming in that heavy?!
Andy


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Andy13 said:


> Yourdaguy,
> Wow, with Stan's website listing the crest at 380g, that's a huge difference from your stated ~432g w/ Stan's tape. Are the Stan's 29er Crest rims you weighed really coming in that heavy?!
> Andy


He's wrong. Crests + tape do not weigh 432g.
Crests + tape *and valve* weigh under 400g.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

My bad. I grabbed the weight of the white Crest which is 410 and added weight for tape. But further research says I added too much for tape too. So weight of Crest should be 380 plus 10 grams for tape so 390 compared to 432. So the Crests are lighter. But all other factors considered, I would rather have the Light Bike wheels than Crests for my needs. If I needed really wide the FlowEX's would be my choice.


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

meltingfeather said:


> He's wrong. Crests + tape do not weigh 432g.
> Crests + tape *and valve* weigh under 400g.


Both my 29er crests came in at exactly 380gms each. I use double run of Stans tape adding 10grams worth.


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## robnow (Apr 12, 2010)

Preston said:


> Do not buy the Novatech 882 rear free hub. I failed one of these in 50 hours, they are a flawed design. The freehub pawls ratchet against a serrated piece in the hub. This piece is evidently just a press fit and has no retaining pins. My cogs/freewheel started rotating with no forward motion with no warning 2 hours into a 6 hour ride. This press fit piece was simply rotating with some frictino inside the free hub body. I ended up rebuilding the wheel with a Hope hub.


+2. I'm almost positive these are the same hubs used by Ibis on their wheel sets. I've had this happen to two rears, first one was replaced by Ibis. According to them, I'm the only person this has ever happened to running their wheel sets, but twice, I find this very hard to believe.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> My bad. I grabbed the weight of the white Crest which is 410 and added weight for tape. But further research says I added too much for tape too. So weight of Crest should be 380 plus 10 grams for tape so 390 compared to 432. So the Crests are lighter. But all other factors considered, I would rather have the Light Bike wheels than Crests for my needs. If I needed really wide the FlowEX's would be my choice.


The wider Light Bicycle rims are an all mountain bike rim. Outside of comparing pure weight to the Crests - which are far from being an all mountain capable rim - there is not much reason to compare the two. Comparing to the Flow (or other metal rim brands of comparable width), or AM carbon rims of similar width from other companies might be the better view in terms of targeted use and weight comparisons.

I would use the following average weights for comparing the strip and valve for a 29"er wheel since it includes the valve:

Bontrager Rhythm strip weight: 35g (strip) + 8g (valve) = 43g
NoTubes weight: 6.5g (valve) + 8.5g (Stans wide yellow tape for a 29"er run) = 15g

My Light Bicycle wheels with the wider AM rims/AC hubs/double butted spokes weigh 1540g + Bonty Strips and Valves = 1626g

Crest Rims with DT Swiss 240 disc hubs/SuperComp spokes/yellow tape and valves = 1640g.

I use both sets of wheels.

BB


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

BruceBrown said:


> Bontrager Rhythm strip weight: 35g (strip) + 8g (valve) = 43gBB


Admittedly picking nits, but the two Rhythm strips that I had my hands on in the real world weighed 42g each. (20% over spec.)


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Weight Weeners should use Stans yellow tape, people who want the most secure tubeless interface should use the Bontrager strips.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*And I'll add....*



BruceBrown said:


> The wider Light Bicycle rims are an all mountain bike rim. Outside of comparing pure weight to the Crests - which are far from being an all mountain capable rim - there is not much reason to compare the two. Comparing to the Flow (or other metal rim brands of comparable width), or AM carbon rims of similar width from other companies might be the better view in terms of targeted use and weight comparisons.
> 
> I would use the following average weights for comparing the strip and valve for a 29"er wheel since it includes the valve:
> 
> ...


I just rode at Annadel on my trail bike with these rims. I was pounding down Lawndale and other rocky trails there with the highest confidence. These rims are very stiff, very point and shoot. I ran a crest rim on my front wheel for about a month. I can't say it was confidence inspiring at all. For similar weight, the light bikes am carbon rim is a clear upgrade over the crest.


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## oldm8 (Dec 6, 2011)

Had my first rim failure today. This was this rims first ride though as i have been running a pre-built wheelset off them for about 5 months now with no issues. Luck of the draw i guess.

This rim is laced to an Ethirteen TRS+ hub. See how I go with warranty.


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## Egads (Jun 27, 2009)

Egads said:


> I placed my order over a month ago and am still waiting on my shipment. Not a happy customer now.


My rims arrived today, exactly 42 days after placing my order. I'm not sure why the delay, but I do appreciate Brian's frequent contacts.

The wider 29er rims look great, and weigh 371 gms each. Will build them up with DT 240s and Aerolite spokes.


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## lawman1991 (Jun 4, 2010)

These look really interesting!! How do you think the wider 26" rim would hold up under a 165lb rider on a Mojo HD140? Would the standard rims be strong enough, I've never bent or killed a wheel before, so I'm pretty good at keeping things together!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Bruce: I just got 3 Bontrager stirps today and a put all 3 on the scale at one time and it was 130 grams. My first 2 weighed 44 grams each. You must have hit the lite weight lottery on the rim strips since all of mine are around 43-44. I also have Crests and these and feel that the comparison is good since these rims only actually hold the tire less than .5 wider and the weights are similar. I also have a set of Flow wheels and while they are much stiffer/stronger than the Crests, they weigh more but they hold the tire wider than the LB wheels. I can only compare the rims I have. On paper the new FlowEX rims are going to hold the tire much wider overall and they basically weigh the same as the old Flow's so I think someone that needed the extra volume would prefer them. The FlowEX rims might have the problem of holding the tire too wide such that at high lean angles you effectively have no side knobs. This would be tire dependent.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

lawman1991 said:


> These look really interesting!! How do you think the wider 26" rim would hold up under a 165lb rider on a Mojo HD140? Would the standard rims be strong enough, I've never bent or killed a wheel before, so I'm pretty good at keeping things together!


I have the wider 26" 3k weave normal weight of 370g each on my Yeti ASR5 (140mm forks) and have been abusing them on the Quantocks rocks and roots with the occasional drop/jump with no problems. They hold the line very well and make landings feel much more secure. I run the bonty strips with continental rubber queens 2.2 ust tyres. When I get some spare cash I will be purchasing spare rims for when/if they fail as they are superb and will not be going back to alloy, highly recommended. :thumbsup:

EDIT: Forgot to say I'm 190lb kitted out with full pack and ready to ride.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

Egads said:


> My rims arrived today, exactly 42 days after placing my order. I'm not sure why the delay, but I do appreciate Brian's frequent contacts.
> 
> The wider 29er rims look great, and weigh 371 gms each. Will build them up with DT 240s and Aerolite spokes.


I placed my order for wide rims about 10 days ago (10/27) and I got notice that they shipped yesterday. They estimated 4 days to ship, so 2 weeks total.


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

A bit of whoring to keep the topic documented with images:

Wider rim / CX-Ray / Tune King MK 20mm. Still in love with these rims!


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

SwintOrSlude said:


> A bit of whoring to keep the topic documented with images:
> 
> Wider rim / CX-Ray / Tune King MK 20mm. Still in love with these rims!
> 
> http://monimag.eu/upload/1048/2012-09-24 18.54.26.jpg


Weight? What about rear wheel? Tune there? Quality? So many questions.


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

hssp said:


> Weight? What about rear wheel? Tune there? Quality? So many questions.


Front wheel is 683g without the Bontrager strip (46g with valve).

For the rear wheel I wanted something very stiff so I went with a Hope Pro II bolt-up (10mm bolts), upgraded to Ti bolts, with bolts the wheel comes in at 924g without Bontrager strip. (Wider rim / CX-ray / Hope pro II boltup+Ti bolts)

I'm VERY happy about the tubeless setup which has been flawless for me (and I've burped many notubes setups). I just wish they made a 250-280g rim for XC now!


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## morosito (Nov 8, 2012)

good whellsss


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## zweigelt (Jul 8, 2008)

...laced in my 4th pair of LB rims .... good to work with and very nice to ride...:thumbsup:

my "wide tires wheels"(DT240/Hope/CN Spokes) in use:


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## kreater (Nov 11, 2004)

zweigelt said:


> ...laced in my 4th pair of LB rims .... good to work with and very nice to ride...:thumbsup:
> 
> my "wide tires wheels"(DT240/Hope/CN Spokes) in use:


wow nice quiring, and scenery. :thumbsup:


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## zweigelt (Jul 8, 2008)

thanks 

i have forgotten to tell you, i use my rims(wider 29") with cutted to size Duct Tape...
Very good to handle, and no burps(2.3 S-Works Ground Control) yet...:thumbsup:

Thanks Brian for the nice contact and your perfect and fast service!


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

I was looking at the light-bicycles site and the wider 29er wheels look interesting for my Endurance XC racing machine. Using Crests currently, and these seem like they would be about the same weight but much stiffer and also stronger. 

Does anyone build/sell these with different hubs? I'd rather do a "name" hub vs the no name hub that's on their website, but don't have any desire to get it custom build here at my LBS. 

I'd like to either do a ZTR hub, or AC. 

Any idea?

-Tom


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## freebiker (Mar 19, 2006)

*why*



trhoppe said:


> I was looking at the light-bicycles site and the wider 29er wheels look interesting for my Endurance XC racing machine. Using Crests currently, and these seem like they would be about the same weight but much stiffer and also stronger.
> 
> Does anyone build/sell these with different hubs? I'd rather do a "name" hub vs the no name hub that's on their website, but don't have any desire to get it custom build here at my LBS.
> 
> ...


why not get a local shop to build them up for you. otherwise you will end up paying much more for them with a middlemans markup. the whole point to these rims is bypassing much of the price gouging by buying them direct from the source.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

lawman1991 said:


> These look really interesting!! How do you think the wider 26" rim would hold up under a 165lb rider on a Mojo HD140? Would the standard rims be strong enough, I've never bent or killed a wheel before, so I'm pretty good at keeping things together!


I'm 208#, and they feel solid to me. They feel more solid than the WTB SpeedDiscs I replaced, as well as the DT X470s and Sun Inferno 23s, although the Infernos are the most solid of the alu rims.

I don't tend to tweak rims... once in a while. I don't do big drops or anything, but I do plow rock gardens at speed.

I think you'll be fine, but it all depends on where and how you ride. If you ride sloppy and land sideways on a regular basis, all bets are off.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

freebiker said:


> why not get a local shop to build them up for you. otherwise you will end up paying much more for them with a middlemans markup. the whole point to these rims is bypassing much of the price gouging by buying them direct from the source.


Doesn't seem that there is a local shop here (in town Atlanta) that won't price gouge me anyways. So I might as well see if anyone is building these with custom hubs and shipping em around.

-Tom


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

oldm8 said:


> Had my first rim failure today. This was this rims first ride though as i have been running a pre-built wheelset off them for about 5 months now with no issues. Luck of the draw i guess.
> 
> This rim is laced to an Ethirteen TRS+ hub. See how I go with warranty.
> 
> ...


What happened? Big hit?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

My second light build done! AC hubs, Revolution spokes, alloy nipples:
Front: 670
Rear 780
Total 1420

Adding skewers, Bontrager rim strips and Stan's valve stems=ready to mount tires + 1650

I didn't go with quite as much tension since theses are much thinner spokes and the hubs are not as stout. But, I have been riding the other build of Shimano M529 hubs and Alpine III spokes and they are so solid I think they will last a lifetime. This build, while lighter by over 500 grams (and around $300 more) looks to be close to equally stout. The super cheap Shimano hubs, while weighting a lot, are quite as hell. I am now constantly running up on deer, squirrels, foxes, and coyotes. If the American Classic hubs are this quiet, I will probably hit some wildlife in the next year.


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Front: 670
> Rear 780
> Total 1420


Oh? I guess I need to re-calibrate my abacus.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well my rims came in around 380 or less and the AC hubs are very light and the Revolution spokes are the lightest round DT spokes. The Revolution spokes come with brass nipples, but I substituted alloy nipples. These are going on a SS bike and the engagement of the AC rear hub is quick but not instantaneous. In other words, it engages not all at once. I read a review on 29inches.com and they liked it and so far, it looks like it will be good from dry testing. I am going to mount tires this weekend and first ride is probably Tues.


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## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

Upated carbon 29er clincher rims weight at 350g each piece, and come with Novatec 711/712SB hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes and Sapim nipples, the weight of comeplete carbon 29er wheelset can be around 1430g/pair.


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

*15mm trade for 9mm with 30mm carbon clincher*

Anyone build up a 30mm carbon clincher 9mm front wheel and want to trade upgrade to QR15 Maxle? I got a Chris King large diameter LD*** pink ISO 15mm front hub handlaced with Phil Wood & Co double butted silver spokes, Phil brass nipples, to a 30mm carbon matte rim. 4 rides on the wheel, less than 150 miles. Flawless. Makes a 2.4 Ardent jumbo-sized. I want to trade for a 9mm front end (going to rigid due to the CX off road touring specific riding I do nowadays).

Based in Bay Area Nor Cal. Photo of actual wheel attached - at Marin Headlands Hawk Hill on its maiden voyage to the summit of Mt. Tam! PM or email me thanks.

p.s. moderator, if this is spam, let me know and i'll gladly pay mtbr 3 bucks finders fee.

*** ISO 15mm LD Large Diameter, Super large bearing with 24 ball bearings per side for unparalleled strength & durability, 197 grams (complete hub), Can easily swap to a 20mm thru axle or 24mm Maverick American axle


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## Vindiu (Nov 8, 2012)

pimpbot said:


> I just rode at Annadel on my trail bike with these rims. I was pounding down Lawndale and other rocky trails there with the highest confidence. These rims are very stiff, very point and shoot. I ran a crest rim on my front wheel for about a month. I can't say it was confidence inspiring at all. For similar weight, the light bikes am carbon rim is a clear upgrade over the crest.


I've had the same experience. I think carbon rims are going to be one of the next big things if they aren't still. Still, beware of the rocks...


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

illnacord said:


> Anyone build up a 30mm carbon clincher 9mm front wheel and want to trade upgrade to QR15 Maxle? I got a Chris King pink ISO 15mm front hub handlaced with Phil Wood & Co double butted silver spokes, Phil brass nipples, to a 30mm carbon matte rim. 4 rides on the wheel, less than 150 miles. Flawless. Makes a 2.4 Ardent jumbo-sized. I want to trade for a 9mm front end (going to rigid due to the CX off road touring specific riding I do nowadays).
> 
> Based in Bay Area Nor Cal. Photo of actual wheel attached - at Marin Headlands Hawk Hill on its maiden voyage to the summit of Mt. Tam! PM or email me thanks.
> 
> p.s. moderator, if this is spam, let me know and i'll gladly pay mtbr 3 bucks finders fee.


Doesn't that hub easily convert to 9mm? I know my King front hub converts back and forth between 9mm and 15mm.


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## Nater (Jan 6, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Doesn't that hub easily convert to 9mm? I know my King front hub converts back and forth between 9mm and 15mm.


AFAIK, it does. Kings go from 9mm to 15mm and back, 15mm to 20mm and back, but not 9mm to 20mm.


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Tom - talk with Chad at Red Barn Bicycles. He builds great wheels and has good prices. Several people have had the LB rims delivered to him for build up.

-Shane



trhoppe said:


> Doesn't seem that there is a local shop here (in town Atlanta) that won't price gouge me anyways. So I might as well see if anyone is building these with custom hubs and shipping em around.
> 
> -Tom


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

Brucebrown, the SD does convert between 9 and 15. However, I should add clarification - CK large diameter "LD" hub swaps 15, 20 and 24 only.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

illnacord said:


> However, I should add clarification - CK large diameter "LD" hub swaps 15, 20 and 24 only.


Got it. :thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

illnacord said:


> Brucebrown, the SD does convert between 9 and 15. However, I should add clarification - CK large diameter "LD" hub swaps 15, 20 and 24 only.


That's if you're using factory Chris King parts. Using an aftermarket conversion you can get the 15 to 9, SD or LD.


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> That's if you're using factory Chris King parts. Using an aftermarket conversion you can get the 15 to 9, SD or LD.


Just curious, what aftermarket providers are out there? I spent a long time waiting for Chris King 135x10 through axles and their 15mm SD conversion and felt like both were steeply priced...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Fixed it for ya :thumbsup:


To the limp-d!ck who left me a neg-rep and this chickensh!t unsigned comment: China homer plus grammatical ******... weak

Do the world a favor and duct tape a plastic bag over your own head :thumbsup:


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

TXNavy said:


> Just curious, what aftermarket providers are out there? I spent a long time waiting for Chris King 135x10 through axles and their 15mm SD conversion and felt like both were steeply priced...
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Here's one on ebay:

Mountain Bike 15mm Thru Axle to Standard 5mm Quick Release Wheel Adapter | eBay


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

Nels said:


> Here's one on ebay:
> 
> Mountain Bike 15mm Thru Axle to Standard 5mm Quick Release Wheel Adapter | eBay


Well...that's to convert any wheel with a through axle down to a QR.

The Chris King conversion kit to go _up_ from a QR to a 135x10mm through axle in the rear on the other hand is pricey for what it is and slightly rare. I'd like all of my King wheelsets to have the through axle, but not so much that I'm going to pay Chris King prices for them...


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## Art.C (Oct 1, 2012)

Wheel report- Pulling the trigger

I ordered 3k 32h Wider rims from the site on the 21st of October and Brian emailed me within an hour to confirm information. They shipped the rims with a USPS tracking number just five days later and I received them on the 30th. I have been saving for Enve wheels for months, but the thrifty side of me had to see if these could work first.

They come in this type of packaging which seems sufficient and made it easy to transport to my lbs:
IMG_1318 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I inspected the rim and was not impressed with some of the sanding-like feature of the rim bed and all of the holes did not look perfectly circular. However, I thought it over and have come to believe that unless it is way off then it is really an irrational worry. The Rhythm strips really do seat perfectly along that space making it pointless to be concerned about how smooth it needs to be.

IMG_1321 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Carbon rims look great built up! I went with DT 240 20mm front/10 mm TA rear, DT Swiss Comp spokes, brass nips, old X7 cassette, Avid rotors, and the same Specie tires. I had asked for silver nipples, but instead got black completing the all too hyped 'murdered out' look. Other than that, they are perfect.

IMG_1348 1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

For anyone skimming through dozens of pages to get more info, I'll try to help here:
Buy (2) of the rhythm 29"er size strips Bontrager: Tubeless Replacement Parts (Model #02566). It will come to a total of about $30 and they allow you to go tubeless.

If you are doing a low budget build then go for Hope hubs. High-end, DT Swiss or Chris King. DT Swiss spin smooth, have a 'low' 18 POE (can be upgraded to 36), and are low maintenance. CK hubs have a distinct sound when coasting, has color options, has high POE at 72, and require specific tools for periodic servicing. Both hubs are essentially fully convertible and have all around solid reputations.

Results:

I do not have any numbers to compare the loss of weight over my stock, however my calibrated arms detect an easily noticeable difference. I am sure that my stock 2011 SJ FSR Expert wheels with 520SL rims and Speci Hi/lo hubs must be a durable, yet heavy and slow rolling set of rubbish.

Pluses noted after just two ride in a week:

These wheels hold air better when stored than my Stans Arch wheelset. It was never really a problem before, I just had to be mindful to check pressures every once in a while. Now I doubt I will even be doing that. I also am going to experiment with lower pressures because I have burped Stans wheels when landing into a turn with pressures in the low 20's

I am much faster now and have no interest in stopping at spots where I normally push myself to get to before stopping for a break. I consistently ride my 2x10 drivetrain at 3-5 gears higher than before. I note 3 early on and then even five gears later in my ride when I guess I used to be too tired to maintain the same gear.

I did not fully understand what 'flexing the wheel', 'tracking', and 'vibration damping' meant in terms of mountain biking before but all those terms became clear to me on just my first ride. I can now sprint up on a climb and I feel better correlation between my pedaling and the acceleration of the bike. Hell, I can even lift up the front of the bike easier which is making me reconsider purchasing a shorter stem.

I have noted a drastic drop in my upgraditis over the last few days.

I am going to sell my xc bike because I no longer feel fatigue on my long travel bike like before.

I can not be sure how much of a difference can be attributed to the rims given that I also upgraded straight to DT Swiss 240 hubs with a 10 rear TA versus the stock RWS 5mm and rode the wheels freshly built up. I also noted how much more true they spin on my wheel stand. What is important though is that I know it was definitely worth the ~$1100 that I spent.

Clearly this is all subjective and my main point is that if you are considering a wheel upgrade, then do not let the rationale that a pound here and there is probably not worth it because it sure as f'n hell was for me. I wish I had pulled the trigger on these things months ago instead of thinking that I would be 'cutting corners' or something.

I will report on if they do not hold up for whatever reason. Clearly that is an unproven element in my review and it seems like I had such a huge change that I may be an outlier within this thread in terms of first time quality, communication with the distributor, shipping speed, and performance difference between my old set all coming together.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

actickuff said:


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> 
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Seems legit


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

My warranty CCC rim came wrapped in a very comfortable leather jacket. I think i am going to include some denim jeans in my next order.


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## Gobstopper (Sep 22, 2009)

Krispy, do you mind chiming in on what happened to your original rim? I've been following this thread for a while patiently waiting to pull trigger on a set for enduro races next year and I'm still sitting on the fence.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*!!!!!!*



pimpbot said:


> Seems legit


That is f () cking fuuuunnnny!


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Art.C said:


> Wheel report- Pulling the trigger
> 
> I ordered 3k 32h Wider rims from the site on the 21st of October and Brian emailed me within an hour to confirm information. They shipped the rims with a USPS tracking number just five days later and I received them on the 30th. I have been saving for Enve wheels for months, but the thrifty side of me had to see if these could work first.
> 
> ...


whiskey tango foxtrot?


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

Gobstopper said:


> Krispy, do you mind chiming in on what happened to your original rim? I've been following this thread for a while patiently waiting to pull trigger on a set for enduro races next year and I'm still sitting on the fence.


Hey all,
My CCC rim suffered a crack on the bead hook when i clipped a rock on the edge of the trail i didn't see. I was running 27psi, probably too low, and i instantly tore the casing of the Racing Ralph SS 2.25 as well. Hard to say if it was just the right hit to just clip one side just right to crack it or if these rims crack kind of easily....

The crack went down the sidewall a ways, but didn't go into the hollow box, or near a spoke hole or anything. Some material flaked off of the bead hook. The rim was still true and under even tension. I threw a tube in and rode it for a couple days.

I shot some super glue deep into the crack and held it in the vise under pressure. Then i epoxied the rim with an expensive boat epoxy. I rebuilt the bead hook a bit and i left a bit of a glue dome on top of the crack. LB warrantied it for $20 shipping. I set it up Ghetto Tubeless to get a better seal just to be safe.

Since it was still holding together I decided to ride it longer. I was really curious if it would still hold up. This was a huge gamble since The Whole Enchilada was the next weekend and was the focus of my whole season!! Over the 23 miles and 6000' of rock punishment it held up!! I started freaking out about 1/3 of the way into the race (on Hazard) because i was running second at that point out of 75 and the rear wheel was making some reeaaly loud sounds. I wanted to stop and feel the spokes but i was in a battle of death for the lead. I thought for sure it was coming apart so i backed down a little and decided to ride a little lighter. After another 30min i realized it was fine since it hadn't come apart on me yet so i pinned it down Porcupine WFO and clobbered the wheel at least 100 times into sandstone. I think the carbon rims and a fat tubeless tire put out some harmonics on the rock, Carbon wheels on road bikes certainly have a hum as they go by.

It's one of those things, ...if you clip one bead and pinch your tire and would have dented an alu rim you will probably crack the CCC rim. If you hit super hard evenly on rounded sandstone, come up short on a gap jump or land sideways on a hip jum they are pretty tough.

No doubt though, they are SO STIFF AND SO FAST that i cannot live without carbon rims anymore. If you can afford it just buck up and buy ENVE's. If you just rip trail and don't dent alu rims then CCC are just fine, but consider buying 3 instead of a pair!

Would i still recommend them? For $175 a piece, yes.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

Krispy.
so did you finish on the podium?


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

seleniak said:


> Tom - talk with Chad at Red Barn Bicycles. He builds great wheels and has good prices. Several people have had the LB rims delivered to him for build up.
> 
> -Shane


Ditto. Had mine built there. High quality professional build and very reasonable price.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Have smashed my 29er wide 380g rims off many rocks with my 200lb loaded weight with no issues, they actually hold air better than my old stans crest wheels - even at 20psi smashing them off rocks there is not a single issue with them.

I have also smashed my 88mm clincher roadie wheel off some potholes which actually hit the rim bead with no issues, just a small cosmetic mark on the rim.

Bike tracks great, very responsive in left / right motions and there is more cornering grip with the wide rim profile. I can put the power down better now I feel, and my times are quite a bit faster vs. the old Crest combo (weight savings was .7lb)


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

broadwayline said:


> Have smashed my 29er wide 380g rims off many rocks with my 200lb loaded weight with no issues, they actually hold air better than my old stans crest wheels - even at 20psi smashing them off rocks there is not a single issue with them.
> 
> I have also smashed my 88mm clincher roadie wheel off some potholes which actually hit the rim bead with no issues, just a small cosmetic mark on the rim.
> 
> Bike tracks great, very responsive in left / right motions and there is more cornering grip with the wide rim profile. I can put the power down better now I feel, and my times are quite a bit faster vs. the old Crest combo (weight savings was .7lb)


Are you running Bontrager strips, or what is your set-up?


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

saruti said:


> Krispy.
> so did you finish on the podium?


Yeah man i did!

I went off a drop and landed on a sharp rock yesterday, pinched the rear tire, no crack. Go figure. I did help an old lady across the street the other day though.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

*Freaking carbon rims.*

Now I can't stand my Arch and 355 rims on my SS, feels way to flexy that I can't stand them. Time to upgrade them also.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Simplemind said:


> Are you running Bontrager strips, or what is your set-up?


Just 1 layer of Gorilla tape with a Rocket Ron up front and a Bontrager 29-0 in the rear tubeless.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I can definitely tell the difference in steering precision on the front but almost prefer the cushier ride of my Crests on the rear, but I am not going back.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Anyone know what the weight of a single layer of gorilla tape is?


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## JHwick (Jun 26, 2006)

Andy13 said:


> Anyone know what the weight of a single layer of gorilla tape is?


A single wrap of 24mm wide Gorilla tape added 24g per wheel with my 26-inch AM rims. Add 10% for a 29er. Yellow tape is more like 8-10g per wheel.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Andy13 said:


> Anyone know what the weight of a single layer of gorilla tape is?


It's about 8-14g heavier than yellow tape from what I have found personally depending on width. It's what ENVE suggests for their carbon wheels, even though I am a weight-weenie I went with what the carbon makers recommend.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

broadwayline said:


> Just 1 layer of Gorilla tape with a Rocket Ron up front and a Bontrager 29-0 in the rear tubeless.


Wow, you are running the 29-0 in rock infested trail...I would never believed that skinny, thin walled tire would hold up to that abuse and a tire like that offers minimal rim protection. You must be a pretty graceful trail technician.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Simplemind said:


> Wow, you are running the 29-0 in rock infested trail...I would never believed that skinny, thin walled tire would hold up to that abuse and a tire like that offers minimal rim protection. You must be a pretty graceful trail technician.


To be honest I thought it would be much worse than it was, tire is surprisingly grippy and extremely fast in the dry (scary in the wet). The wide LB wheels actually made the footprint much better than my old Arch EX


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## JudgeMorris (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Folks,

This is a cross-post from wheels and tires, but it is a question regarding the Novatec D822SB on the rear wheel of my CCC prebuilt wheelset, so I thought I would ask here as well...
I am super happy with the wheel set, other than the weight of the rear wheel. The rear hub is a wee bit on the heavy side. I am pretty certain that that model hub is all steel...steel hub shell, freehub body and axle. I am wondering if it is possible to swap out the freehub body and/or the axle for aluminum replacements. It looks like they sell aluminum freehub bodies but I don't know if they would be compatible with this hub. I have poked around on line quite a bit and tried to contact Novatec and their US sales guy, as well as some other online Novatec resellers. I can't find a conclusive answer myself and nobody I have reached out to has gotten back to me. 
Any thoughts/suggestions are appreciated!
Thanks!


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Quick question for folks using the Bontrager strips. Are most folks using the strips with or without sealant? As far as I can tell, from the many pages of the thread I have read, most are using sealant as well, but the original post (#131) by "indyfab25" that I believe initiated the idea of using the Bontrager strips seems to use the no-sealant approach-->

http://forums.mtbr.com/8948361-post131.html


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

JudgeMorris said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> This is a cross-post from wheels and tires, but it is a question regarding the Novatec D822SB on the rear wheel of my CCC prebuilt wheelset, so I thought I would ask here as well...
> I am super happy with the wheel set, other than the weight of the rear wheel. The rear hub is a wee bit on the heavy side. I am pretty certain that that model hub is all steel...steel hub shell, freehub body and axle. I am wondering if it is possible to swap out the freehub body and/or the axle for aluminum replacements. It looks like they sell aluminum freehub bodies but I don't know if they would be compatible with this hub. I have poked around on line quite a bit and tried to contact Novatec and their US sales guy, as well as some other online Novatec resellers. I can't find a conclusive answer myself and nobody I have reached out to has gotten back to me.
> ...


Here's the specs on it... D882SB (RH) - Novatec

and some resources:

http://novatecusa.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Instruction-MTB-3in1-4in1-Hubs_Catalog2012.pdf
http://novatecusa.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Cassbody-Compatibility-all_upd_2012-02-08.pdf


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I believe 99% are using sealant. Those using true UST type tires could probably get by without sealant if they never ran over a thorn.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

MSH said:


> Quick question for folks using the Bontrager strips. Are most folks using the strips with or without sealant? As far as I can tell, from the many pages of the thread I have read, most are using sealant as well, but the original post (#131) by "indyfab25" that I believe initiated the idea of using the Bontrager strips seems to use the no-sealant approach-->
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/8948361-post131.html


The Ikon EXOs I mounted sealed and held air with no sealant but I still added sealant. It can't hurt, right?


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## JudgeMorris (Jun 22, 2005)

mattsavage said:


> Here's the specs on it... D882SB (RH) - Novatec
> 
> and some resources:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the links. I did come acrossed that info myself when I was doing some research. It didn't seem (to me) to answer my questions. However, I did hear back from Henry at Novatec US. He has been very helpful so far. I'll be happy to post back if/when I make some progress if anybody is interested.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

MSH said:


> Quick question for folks using the Bontrager strips. Are most folks using the strips with or without sealant? As far as I can tell, from the many pages of the thread I have read, most are using sealant as well, but the original post (#131) by "indyfab25" that I believe initiated the idea of using the Bontrager strips seems to use the no-sealant approach-->
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/8948361-post131.html


You'll need sealant with 99.x% (just a guess at %) of the tires available. Post 131 is a typical example that one should air up and test the tire to make sure it will air up before adding sealant. Indyfab was just testing the bead and the tire on the rim with the strip to make sure it was golden to go after the Hans Dampf without the Bonty strip blew off the rim. Most tires will hold air for a certain duration before the air seeps out - some a few seconds to minutes, some even longer such as the tubeless ready Nobby Nic pictured in post 131. During that time frame you can test, as Indyfab did, for possible burping issues as pictured in his post. He was looking for security and a bombproof set up.

The only tires I own and have found to be able to be run on a 29"er without sealant would be the Maxxis LUST versions of the Ardent 2.25 and Crossmark. Of course, they both weigh 200-300g more due to the extra rubber to make them tubeless. Even then, you have to dip the valve in sealant every now and then to plug up any air escaping around the valve stem hole. I have not tried them on the L-B carbon rims to see if they would run without sealant (they do fine on my NoTubes rims without sealant). The other caveat with the LUST tires is - if you do get a thorn or other puncture, you will have to patch the inside of the tire like one does with any tubeless tire run without sealant if you want to continue to run it sealant free. I've yet to puncture mine.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

MSH said:


> Quick question for folks using the Bontrager strips. Are most folks using the strips with or without sealant? As far as I can tell, from the many pages of the thread I have read, most are using sealant as well, but the original post (#131) by "indyfab25" that I believe initiated the idea of using the Bontrager strips seems to use the no-sealant approach-->
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/8948361-post131.html


The idea of the rim strip is to let them seat easier with just a floor pump by forming a tighter fit from the tire lip to the bead of the rim, or avoid rolling the tire off the rim at very low PSI - nothing to do with sealant.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback on the rim strips everyone. 
I only have experience with the Stan's rims and yellow tape, so this is great info to get my set sealed up once I receive them


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## Dpca10 (Sep 13, 2012)

Thought i should chime in. i built up a set of AM heavy 29er LB wheels with Chris kings. Been beating the crap out out of them. Went totally sideways and dug in after being thrown by a root. Rode them hard in rock gardens, taken some hits, totally bombproof. Really havnt gone out of true even. I had nobby nic rear and Hans dampf front. Switched to a purgatory rear and butcher front and love the combo, faster rolling seemingly. Just bummed the King hub isn't xx1 compatable or upgradable at this point in case I want to make the switch. Oh yeah, bonty rhythm strips (with sealent) on both although I had gorilla tape for a while that was fine. Strips really snug it up.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

MSH said:


> Thanks for the feedback on the rim strips everyone.
> I only have experience with the Stan's rims and yellow tape, so this is great info to get my set sealed up once I receive them


Either Stans or Gorilla is fine. Pull the Stans tape tight when you wrap it. Start away from the valve stem and overlap more than 3". Pull it tight!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

rensho said:


> Start away from the valve stem


Yes!!

Don't know where the dingbats on this forum who recommend overlapping at the valve get it from. :crazy:


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I believe they watch the movie on Stan's web site. I have done it both ways, and it doesn't seem to matter.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> I believe they watch the movie on Stan's web site. I have done it both ways, and it doesn't seem to matter.


You mean the "Yellow Tape Install" video below, where he says at 1:25 to start at the weld (opposite the valve hole)?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

That is his new video. The one I watched 4 years ago said to start just before the valve hole and then come back around to past the valve hole. I didn't know they updated it.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

rensho said:


> Either Stans or Gorilla is fine. Pull the Stans tape tight when you wrap it. Start away from the valve stem and overlap more than 3". Pull it tight!


Thanks Rensho! I'm pretty versed in taping up the Stan's rims. I've never used rim strips so didn't know how folks were using those.
I haven't decided which way I'm going to go once I receive my set (strips or tape), but leaning towards the Gorilla tape. I'm a XC weenie anyway so no big hucking stuff for me.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> That is his new video. The one I watched 4 years ago said to start just before the valve hole and then come back around to past the valve hole. I didn't know they updated it.


lol
whatever you need to believe, dood. that's the same video that's been up for years. they don't even make the alpine rim anymore and that's an old school logo on it.
I guess they used a time machine to upload that same vid to YouTube in June of '08, right? link


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well I know you don't believe me, but the video I watched was from a longer shot and it might have been longer than 4 years ago. June of 08 was a little over 4 years and they have had video's way longer than that.


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> lol
> whatever you need to believe, dood. that's the same video that's been up for years. they don't even make the alpine rim anymore and that's an old school logo on it.
> I guess they used a time machine to upload that same vid to YouTube in June of '08, right? link


well, fwiw, that's how I learned to do it as well (starting at the valve stem)


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## hatrickpatrick (Apr 16, 2012)

*Carbonality wheelset quality?*

I'm also wondering about the pre-built carbon wheels with Novatec hubs from Carbonality.
I'm thinking about upgrading my stock Vuelta wheels to some carbon ones on my 29er. I saw that Carbonality is selling some wheelsets here: 
NSS M923C - GD - 29er mtb clincher wheelset - 29er MTB - Wheels

I'd like to know if anyone has bought these and how they have held up. I'm looking for something a little on the light side but pretty tough. I'll probably run them ghetto tubeless with 2.1 tires. I do a lot of long distance XC racing so I'd like something reasonably light, but rugged.

I've read through about 30 pages on this thread, so if I missed a relevant post, please point it out too, thanks!


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Is there a reason everyone is using the Bontrager rim strips instead of the Stan's rim strips? I know the Stan's cost more but I was just wondering if there was any other reason too. 

I am about to order the LB wider rim wheelset to run with 2.25" nobby nics. I am tempted to try to just run with yellow tape but I haven't decided yet.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The Bontrager rim strips are not rubber like Stans. They are a stiffer higher strength plastic that turns the rim into a tubeless rim by having a high ridge just inside the bead seat. Tires are actually harder to push off the bead with the rim strip on these rims than on a real Stan's rim. Makes it totally secure.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

hatrickpatrick said:


> I'm also wondering about the pre-built carbon wheels with Novatec hubs from Carbonality.
> I'm thinking about upgrading my stock Vuelta wheels to some carbon ones on my 29er. I saw that Carbonality is selling some wheelsets here:
> NSS M923C - GD - 29er mtb clincher wheelset - 29er MTB - Wheels
> 
> ...


I race them on my SSCX bike. They're super good, no problems with skinny 33c tires and a tubeless conversion. Super stiff, light, nice quality build from appearances. I bet they'd hold up well for marathon racing.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Thanks, that's the sort of info I was looking for.
G



yourdaguy said:


> The Bontrager rim strips are not rubber like Stans. They are a stiffer higher strength plastic that turns the rim into a tubeless rim by having a high ridge just inside the bead seat. Tires are actually harder to push off the bead with the rim strip on these rims than on a real Stan's rim. Makes it totally secure.


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## hatrickpatrick (Apr 16, 2012)

mattsavage said:


> I race them on my SSCX bike. They're super good, no problems with skinny 33c tires and a tubeless conversion. Super stiff, light, nice quality build from appearances. I bet they'd hold up well for marathon racing.


That's awesome news. Thanks for the feedback. I'll put it on my christmas list and hope. hehe...


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## craigebaker (Nov 19, 2010)

Can anyone compare and contrast these with American Classic MTB Race 29 wheels? I've heard that the AC's are lighter, have a 24mm internal width (wider than LB) and are pretty stiff. Anyone that can confirm, refute, or add their thoughts on the comparison between the two complete wheel sets?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*I've ridden both but on different bikes*

I have an older set of AC 29er wheels on my hardtail and built up a set of these with DT Swiss 240s for my fully. No contest as to stiffness. Depending on build the ACs may be lighter. I also own two sets of AC road wheels 420-aeros and Sprint 350s

In my opinion some design shortcomings in AC hubs, which have been touted as advantages that should be mentioned:

AC hubs have narrower flanges, which reduce the lateral stiffness of a wheel build (all other things equal). The reason given is that the wheel will use identical length spokes drive and non drive side, and will have roughly equal tensions. But having a wider flange puts a larger portion of the tension in the lateral dimension and gives a laterally stronger build. The inequality of tension between drive and non-drive sides is a red-herring.

In addition my AC road wheels have started breaking spokes. The spokes exit the nipples at a rather extreme angle and I think this is a contributing factor along with the flexing, which causes metal fatigue. The use of proprietary nipples and spokes on my 420 aeros has been a source of unhappiness as well.


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## llamma (Apr 28, 2012)

I ordered a pair of the "wider" LB rims the other day. They're estimating 15 business days to make them. I'll hopefully see them around Christmas.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

There is an invoice in my inbox for a set of the wider LB wheels to be built with DT Swiss Super Comps on the d711sb/d712sb. I am only waiting to verify that at least the front hub can be converted to a through axle. A qr15 specifically. There seems to have been a recent change in the hub that allows this but I was wanting to confirm. Anyone have a recent set that can set the record straight?
Thanks


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

fire_strom said:


> There is an invoice in my inbox for a set of the wider LB wheels to be built with DT Swiss Super Comps on the d711sb/d712sb. I am only waiting to verify that at least the front hub can be converted to a through axle. A qr15 specifically. There seems to have been a recent change in the hub that allows this but I was wanting to confirm. Anyone have a recent set that can set the record straight?
> Thanks


Good question... Lots of the 2011 9mm models floating around. The US website shows the new one, Taiwan shows the old ones.

Not to thread jack too much, but I'm surprised Novatec doesn't make a SS disc hub...

Edit: Nevermind, didn't look in the DJ section. Several of them there...


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

fire_strom said:


> There is an invoice in my inbox for a set of the wider LB wheels to be built with DT Swiss Super Comps on the d711sb/d712sb. I am only waiting to verify that at least the front hub can be converted to a through axle. A qr15 specifically. There seems to have been a recent change in the hub that allows this but I was wanting to confirm. Anyone have a recent set that can set the record straight?
> Thanks


Even if the hub is convertible, you still have to figure out where to get the conversion caps.

If I were you I'd look into the Novatec D881/D882 hubs. Those are convertible for sure and you can use the Transition Bikes conversion caps for them since the Transition bikes hubs are rebranded Novatec D881/D882 hubs

Or, your other option if you need 9mm QR now but you want to future proof is to just get a 15mm front hub and then get one of these for 9mm. It'll be heavier but that's the trade-off f

Mountain Bike 15mm thru Axle to Standard 5mm Quick Release Wheel Adapter | eBay


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

pwu_1 said:


> Even if the hub is convertible, you still have to figure out where to get the conversion caps.


I'm sure LB can get the adapters from their supplier to include with the wheelset. If not, you can probably email the US distributor and get them there.


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## dhegglin (Aug 1, 2011)

Saw this more appropriate thread so posting here also - sorry for the duplicates.

First off, do not expect these rims to be of equal quality as the ones built by a well-known manufacturer. All rims are manufactured in China, but the quality is not held to the same standard everywhere.

Pros: They are cheap, they are light, tubeless tires seal quickly. The Novatec hubs are good although I've only ridden them about 500 miles so far.

Cons: You get what you pay for. Warranty is sub-standard. The wheels are built very light and I've had spokes rip out of the nipples. They are advertised as AM - this is questionable. They are an XC rim.

So, quickly my story.

Ordered whole wheel in early September, received them beginning of October. I rode them for a month and broke the front rim on a creek crossing (rocky and I wasn't going slow). I'm 175 lbs, riding a 2011 SC Tallboy C with 35 psi. I rode through the creek at a good clip, hitting all the obligatory rocks along the way. I heard a loud crack, followed by a violent tire blowout, followed by a nice endo (flesh wounds only). The rim broke in 2 places, simply broke off a 20" section. The breakage was at the holes drilled in the rim. I contacted Nancy and sent in the serial # along with pictures of the break. A bit of back and forth. She now agreed to send me a new rim (not a new wheel) and I have to pay for shipping ($29). When it gets here I'll have to get some new spokes and likely pay someone to lace up the hub.

I also spoke with a friend of mine in AZ who ordered the road rims. He told me the front was very nice but the rear should not have passed QC. Like I said... you get what you pay for. Do not expect the quality to be equal to those built by well-known manufacturers.

IMG_20121114_182033 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

IMG_20121114_181714 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

dhegglin said:


> Saw this more appropriate thread so posting here also - sorry for the duplicates.
> 
> First off, do not expect these rims to be of equal quality as the ones built by a well-known manufacturer. All rims are manufactured in China, but the quality is not held to the same standard everywhere.
> 
> ...


wow I think that's the first complete failure that I've seen for these rims. 
Glad you are (mostly) ok.


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

fire_strom said:


> Is there a reason everyone is using the Bontrager rim strips instead of the Stan's rim strips? I know the Stan's cost more but I was just wondering if there was any other reason too.
> 
> I am about to order the LB wider rim wheelset to run with 2.25" nobby nics. I am tempted to try to just run with yellow tape but I haven't decided yet.


I just use 1" Gorilla Tape. No need to go all Bontrager on this unless you want to. Yellow Tape worked for me but allowed a bit of seeping so I went with the burlier tape.

JMH


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Stans tape has worked fine with the Ardent 2.4 on my bike. I ride aggressively but this setup hasn't burped, not even once. Granted, this is with just one season of riding. 

I have experienced precisely one flat so far. This was because the Stans had dried out and I hadn't bothered to put more in. Something large punctured the tire so the problem wasn't related to the tubeless tape but just that there wasn't any fluid left to seal the hole. I rode home slowly, stopping to put more air in the tire about every 1/4 mile. Even when it got down to rolling on the rim, the bead never unseated.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Bad break there. What do you think an arch ex rim might have done? Big dent or roll over?

I found a supplier that deals with novatec parts. rbopbicycles or something. I think I googled "Novatec end caps". They're in Taiwan but were good with email. Said they didn't think the older versions of the 711sb hub would take the new end caps which they didn't even have yet. I think the new version of the hubs are not yet available. I asked Nancy if she could check on their availability. If I can't get the convertible ones I may punt on the whole carbon thing and get an arch ex set on the 3.30 hubs. I think they'd be about 150g heavier than the LB wider set on 711/712's but $200 less too. I suppose I could just wait a couple months for the winter to start then end and the hubs to be released.


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

dhegglin said:


> IMG_20121114_182033 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> IMG_20121114_181714 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Not looking good.

How many others have front wheel failures? 
I've opted for a Chinese front & Enve rear, my thoughts were the rear has to take a larger beating than the front, but in retrospect if I was going to break a rim I would prefer the rear.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

dhegglin said:


> Ordered whole wheel in early September, received them beginning of October. I rode them for a month and broke the front rim on a creek crossing (rocky and I wasn't going slow). I'm 175 lbs, riding a 2011 SC Tallboy C with 35 psi. I rode through the creek at a good clip, hitting all the obligatory rocks along the way. I heard a loud crack, followed by a violent tire blowout, followed by a nice endo (flesh wounds only). The rim broke in 2 places, simply broke off a 20" section. The breakage was at the holes
> 
> IMG_20121114_182033 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> IMG_20121114_181714 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


True about the AM recommendations, I wouldn't go beyond XC in them

So, since you're the first full catastrophic rim failure, can you explain a bit more.

What does "good clip" mean exactly, and "hitting all of the obligatory rocks"? Is that 30mph hitting boulders, or 15mph hitting fist sized rocks, just so we can get an idea.

I've seen plenty of alloy rims fail in similar fashion at xc races (saw a mavic rim totally taco itself last race ) but most times it's from a frontal impact.

I've had mine for 4 months now on novatec and rotaz hubs riding only xc - done some pretty rough rides with 0 issues. Love them


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The guy who broke the rim was also pulling the spokes out of the nipples so we shouldn't jump to conclusions about the durability of these rims.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Just received 2 29er wider rims that I ordered. Took about 3 weeks total, 2 weeks to manufacture(Brian told me there would be a delay since there were like 60 orders before mine) and then 1 week shipping. Both weighed in at 400grams and both measured 603erd.
I now own 3 sets of light-bicycle wheels. 1 set in each size.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

The guy with the break is just trying to make a point that emphasizes quality inconsistency issues. Anyone with a holistic perspective should see that. 

He's also warning that if you're the AM type, maybe the kind that likes to look for and ride rougher lines fast on purpose, that you shouldn't feel very confident on these rims. Most riders should know how much confidence is worth on the trail, in determining how daring you want to be. 

He's also implying something about the full wheel build quality, and how that doesn't guarantee a problem free wheel, with issues such as spokes pulling out of the nipples. Wheel builders should know that shouldn't happen if you use new nipples, spokes, and hand build them carefully, but who's to say that wheel was built that way?

Warranties in the US typically means a brand is confident in their product and that you should also trust in it, as they are backing it up. In this case, I get the impression that it should be more like a "ride at your own risk" disclaimer, with a generous "crash/accident replacement" cost, rather than a warranty.

He mentions Nancy, so you should know which factory he's talking about here, which may have some amateurs working for them and/or some poor QA standards.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

All of that is possible. But with only one reported complete rim failure, should we assume the worst? 

I've personally witnessed the failure of pretty much every brand and every component while "just riding along". Does that mean that those brands have poor QA standards? Or is it that every product can break?

Posts in this thread will help build a reputation one way or the other. But so far I don't think there are enough bad reports to constitute a bad reputation.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have broken/tacoed Stan's rims and I am old and not very heavy. These rims are rock solid as far as I am concerned. I have ridden them hard and put them up wet with no issues. I just ordered my 3rd set so I am putting my money where my mouth is. I have 4 sets of STans rims in all the models (ARCH, FLOW, CREST) and before these, Stan's were the best. Stan's are still great, but I am liking these better. Of the Stans rims I likes the CREST the best, but this year alone, I tacoed a Crest and blew the tire completely off a Crest. The Crest are still lighter than these with the rim strip, but these are way lighter than the Arch's and Flow's. I have not managed to break an Arch or Flow but the Arch's aren't wide enough and the Flow's are heavy. The new FlowEx are only about 100 grams heavier, but for me the almost hold the tire too wide for the kind of riding I do. For those that need really wide the FlowEx might still be the answer, but for me, these rims are the best I have found.

If you want to know how much testing I have done, I just looked at my spreadsheet and I have ridden almost 5000 miles this year and 2500 was single speed and over 1200 of that was full rigid SS. Just over a thousand was road so that leaves 1500 geared MTB split within 5 miles of even between FS and HT. So 4000 miles this year was on Stans or these rims and in that time I had the 2 Stans failures discussed above and so far none for these rims.


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## craigebaker (Nov 19, 2010)

fire_strom said:


> There is an invoice in my inbox for a set of the wider LB wheels to be built with DT Swiss Super Comps on the d711sb/d712sb. I am only waiting to verify that at least the front hub can be converted to a through axle. A qr15 specifically. There seems to have been a recent change in the hub that allows this but I was wanting to confirm. Anyone have a recent set that can set the record straight?
> Thanks


Does this mean that I can't order these wheels with 15mm QR Novatec (D711/D712SB) in the front? I've heard a couple bad things about the 8xx Novatecs freewheel failing, so this is bad news if true that the 7xx hubs don't come ready to run 15mm QR....


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## craigebaker (Nov 19, 2010)

Can someone also clarify if there is a difference in endcaps for 15mm thru vs. 15mm QR? Or are they the same?


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## ChristianHuige (Mar 26, 2012)

craigebaker said:


> Can someone also clarify if there is a difference in endcaps for 15mm thru vs. 15mm QR? Or are they the same?


They are the same. 
The 15mm QR is just called in the past.


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## ShralpSauce (Mar 22, 2012)

Anyone try mounting Bontrager TLR tires on these rims? Do they mount up easily?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ShralpSauce said:


> Anyone try mounting Bontrager TLR tires on these rims? Do they mount up easily?


It depends on what you have in the rims. With tape only, anything will mount pretty easily. With TLR strips like many people are using (including me), the fit can be tight, but I haven't had any issues mounting a tire yet, including a Bonty TLR tire.


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## craigebaker (Nov 19, 2010)

So Nancy confirmed that there isn't 15mm front option on the front Novatec 711 hub. It looks like the 811/812 hubs are much heavier. I did try to contact Novatec NA via email with no success and Nancy made it sound like Novatec doesnt currently make the 15mm endcap but is planning to sometime in 2013. I need to pull the trigger now, so that won't help me. 
Does anyone have any info on where to get the endcap for the 711 hub or what hubs i cld buy seperately and build up for a similar weight and price as the complete LB wheelset?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The problem with building them up separately for the similar price is that you end up buying the spokes in small quantities and decent ones cost over $1 each by the time you pay shipping (although they would be higher quality spokes). The other problem with keeping it the same price is that most of the hubs that can be converted are higher end hubs and cost more money (although they will generally be lighter). The 3rd problem is that if you are not building the wheels yourself, it probably costs them around $5 per wheel in labor to build in China.
Personally, I would buy the rims and build what I wanted (although I can build my own) but there is a guy here that has built hundreds of wheels that will do them for $25 each and I can buy the parts myself of through him at a discount from retail.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> The problem with building them up separately for the similar price is that you end up buying the spokes in small quantities and decent ones cost over $1 each by the time you pay shipping (although they would be higher quality spokes). The other problem with keeping it the same price is that most of the hubs that can be converted are higher end hubs and cost more money (although they will generally be lighter). The 3rd problem is that if you are not building the wheels yourself, it probably costs them around $5 per wheel in labor to build in China.
> Personally, I would buy the rims and build what I wanted (although I can build my own) but there is a guy here that has built hundreds of wheels that will do them for $25 each and I can buy the parts myself of through him at a discount from retail.


Dans comp has sapim double butted for about .50/each. They also dont charge extra for the non standard lengths (most spokes only come in odd or even lengths and most places charge to cut to the non standard length).

I bought the light bicycles AM rims and did my first wheel build maybe two weeks ago. I have about 4 rides on my front wheel and 1 ride on the rear so not enough to tell about durability, but I can definitely feel the difference in climbing and downhill over my WTB frequency i23. The first wheel build took about 6 hours, the second took about 2. I definitely am getting faster. I took them to the LBS to ensure that they were tensioned properly and the LBS said they looked great.

I bought a used chris king hub for $90, plus $70 for an axle kit to convert to 142X12. The total cost was about $650 ( not including the truing stand, spoke wrenches etc that I had to buy).

Weight wise I only dropped about a pound from the i23s.

I used one layer of 1" gorilla tape and mounted a hans dampf 2.35 on the front and a maxxis ardent 2.25 on the back mounted tubeless. I used an air compressor to seal the bead on both of them and used stans (although Im going to switch to orange seal as it is much better than stans in sealing large gashes).

Since Im relatively new to mtb (about 6 months) I wasnt sure what to expect. However I can definitely feel the difference. There is one particular hill that I bomb down, the bike (tallboy LTC) just totally railed. The i23 were fine, but the new wheels had a new level of confidence and stability. I wouldnt pay $2000 for the improvement, but 650 is fine.

Climbing is also better. There are a couple of climbs that I sometimes miss, with the new wheels Im not even close to missing them. There is one climb that I have only made once and I did it both times I tried it today.

Today is the first day that I rode front and back. It is probably my imagination but I did two laps (11 miles/lap) today on one of my normal loops and at the end of the second lap I felt like I could easily do a 3rd. It could just have been one of those good days where everything aligns. Ill report back as I get more ride time.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

poundslly said:


> yeah, Those rims look awesome. I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.


They do, same spokes as the Flows.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Correct. The 711's that can be 15mm are not yet available AFAICT. That is from communicating with nancy at LB and a guy in Taiwan that has a wan store sell novatec hubs and end caps etc.

I bailed and got a good deal on the alloy Rovals.

Once the new 711 start shipping these will be very very loud on my radar.



craigebaker said:


> Does this mean that I can't order these wheels with 15mm QR Novatec (D711/D712SB) in the front? I've heard a couple bad things about the 8xx Novatecs freewheel failing, so this is bad news if true that the 7xx hubs don't come ready to run 15mm QR....


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## mjduct (Jul 31, 2012)

I would be very interested in this as well what sources do you use for novatec hubs I'm struggling to find retailers who carry them


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Google

edit: jn35646 gave a (-) rep for this post.


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## simpy16 (Apr 18, 2012)

My Light Bicycles 29er UD matte finish rims arrived today and from what I can tell (which isnt much) they seem well constructed.

I plan to get these built up in the next few weeks and then can compare them to my Enve wheels.

My question is what is the best tubeless setup to use on these rims? they are the AM tubeless version (BTW)

Evne tape- I think I would need to get the wider version of the gorilla tape. Is this best for these rims?
Stans yellow- Light, do they hold well or are the rims too wide for this light tape to work?
bontrager strips- I believe I would need the Rhythm model of strips. Seem to work well on my RXL rims do they make mounting tires easier or more difficult with the rim profile?

Any feedback or correction would be helpful.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

simpy16 said:


> My Light Bicycles 29er UD matte finish rims arrived today and from what I can tell (which isnt much) they seem well constructed.
> 
> I plan to get these built up in the next few weeks and then can compare them to my Enve wheels.
> 
> ...


im using 1 inch gorilla tape which is working fine.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

goodmojo said:


> im using 1 inch gorilla tape which is working fine.


+1 :thumbsup:


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

simpy16 said:


> My Light Bicycles 29er UD matte finish rims arrived today and from what I can tell (which isnt much) they seem well constructed.
> 
> I plan to get these built up in the next few weeks and then can compare them to my Enve wheels.
> 
> ...


I also recently got a pair of the LB wider carbon rims in UD/Matte. Built and set them up tubeless last week. I used the bontrager rhythm rim strips due to all the recommendations. The strips fit the rims perfectly, and seem to make them more of a UST setup than tape would. Tires are fairly hard to get on/off with the strips installed, probably more so than if I would've just used tape.

One 3.5+ hour ride on them and all is good. Using the same hubs/spokes (king/wheelsmith DB14) as my crest/355 wheelset these definitely feel stiffer. Planning to use them as my XC race wheelset for next year. Not super light but hopefully fairly bombproof and stiff.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh man, just pulled the trigger on a complete wheelset from Nancy. Wide rims, matte, 12k, and thru axles front and back. 

I guess I'll be keeping this bike for a while. I really wanted to go back to 26in wheels but I tacoed a wheel last week on my Rumblefish and I definitely do not have the funds for a new bike. There was lots of debating on to just rebuild my wheel or upgrade. Finally decided on the upgrade. Hope it was the right choice...


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Tell us more...*



erikrc10 said:


> Oh man, just pulled the trigger on a complete wheelset from Nancy. Wide rims, matte, 12k, and thru axles front and back.
> 
> I guess I'll be keeping this bike for a while. I really wanted to go back to 26in wheels but I tacoed a wheel last week on my Rumblefish and I definitely do not have the funds for a new bike. There was lots of debating on to just rebuild my wheel or upgrade. Finally decided on the upgrade. Hope it was the right choice...


I'm considering a Nancy race-day-only wheelset. Now that the new Roval set is available I'm waffling. Do tell....

1. How was it dealing with them? I've done online chat with their man Brian and his English was perfect.
2. What were the hub options?
3. Were you given options for spokes and nipples?
4. Did they promise a specific weight?
5. How long until delivery?

Thanks for your time.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

erikrc10 said:


> Oh man, just pulled the trigger on a complete wheelset from Nancy. Wide rims, matte, 12k, and thru axles front and back.
> 
> I guess I'll be keeping this bike for a while. I really wanted to go back to 26in wheels but I tacoed a wheel last week on my Rumblefish and I definitely do not have the funds for a new bike. There was lots of debating on to just rebuild my wheel or upgrade. Finally decided on the upgrade. Hope it was the right choice...


Yeah, dunno what you had before, but I immediately noticed how much stiffer the NancyWide Carbon 29er rims were than my WTB SpeedDisc rims or my DT Swiss X470 rims... and they're 60 grams lighter to boot! They feel way more point and shoot through the rocky and off camber parts of the trail I regularly ride.

Bonus points for being wider, and allowing a wider tire footprint at lower pressure. :thumbsup:

I think you'll really dig 'em. I would just suggest that you go over them with micrometer eyes when you get first take them out of the box to be sure nothing stands out in the quality control department.

I'm starting to queue up to get another pair of NancyWide AM29er rims. I just found a smoking deal on a DT Swiss 240s rear hub, get another Circus Monkey Lefty front hub, spokes and nipples, and I'm in.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Nancy's English has been very good, you can tell it is not her native language but everything is clearly communicated. During their business hours her emails are extremely quick (reply within 15-30 mins). I ordered this morning and haven't gotten an email from her yet, just the auto response one saying they received the order. They are on the other side of the world though so it's certainly not during business hours. I expect one from her sometime tonight. 

Their hub options aren't that great, you are pretty much limited to the Novatec offerings but they are suppose to be getting DT hubs in sometime soon. They are currently trying to work out prices with there supplier. 

I honestly didn't put to much thought into spokes or nipples but they do explain why they use what spokes they use and you can get different ones on request and I'm not sure about nipples. 

If you want a custom build I would recommend just buying the rims yourself. If I had more money I would have gotten a set of Hopes or something along that line but these were $666 (I hope that price isn't a sign of anything...) delivered to my door. I was struggling to find a set new flows for much less and I couldn't find a truly bad review about LB so I thought why not. 

The weight is claimed at 1500g +/-15. We will see what they come in at once they get here. My old wheelset (Bontrager Duster) I don't know the weight of but I know it was above 2000g so regardless it will be a big improvement. 

The site claims 10 days to get the wheels built up and complete and then shipping is suppose to take anywhere from 4-7 days. I asked Nancy if that was accurate and she said it was. I will definitely report as to when they actually get here though. 


I'm a pretty light guy, 6ft and weigh probably about 140-145lbs when geared up, so I don't notice flex a whole lot but I definitely ride pretty aggressively. Probably harder the then the Rumblefish was designed for, so we will see how these wheels hold up.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Spoke count?*

From what little I was able to find on the web, the Novatecs are fine. Which spoke count did you opt for?

Best of luck with your 666 wheelset!


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

I knew there was something I forgot, I went with the 32 spoke wheels. 
Yeah, from all I could find Novatec hubs seemed to be of good quality, so I'm not too worried.


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## craigebaker (Nov 19, 2010)

*Any updates on this?*



fire_strom said:


> Bad break there. What do you think an arch ex rim might have done? Big dent or roll over?
> 
> I found a supplier that deals with novatec parts. rbopbicycles or something. I think I googled "Novatec end caps". They're in Taiwan but were good with email. Said they didn't think the older versions of the 711sb hub would take the new end caps which they didn't even have yet. I think the new version of the hubs are not yet available. I asked Nancy if she could check on their availability. If I can't get the convertible ones I may punt on the whole carbon thing and get an arch ex set on the 3.30 hubs. I think they'd be about 150g heavier than the LB wider set on 711/712's but $200 less too. I suppose I could just wait a couple months for the winter to start then end and the hubs to be released.


Has Nancy updated you on availability of the 711 hub with 15mm end caps yet? All the other hubs appear much heavier, so won't work for XC racing. Are the Rotaz hubs a suitable substitute for the Novatec 711/712?


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

craigebaker said:


> Has Nancy updated you on availability of the 711 hub with 15mm end caps yet? All the other hubs appear much heavier, so won't work for XC racing. Are the Rotaz hubs a suitable substitute for the Novatec 711/712?


The US Novatec site shows the 711 with the end cap adaptors. D711SB (FH) - Novatec Maybe they're on the slow boat to China...wait a minute...now I'm really confused.


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## Gabe63 (Oct 28, 2012)

yourdaguy said:


> I have broken/tacoed Stan's rims and I am old and not very heavy. These rims are rock solid as far as I am concerned. I have ridden them hard and put them up wet with no issues. I just ordered my 3rd set so I am putting my money where my mouth is. I have 4 sets of STans rims in all the models (ARCH, FLOW, CREST) and before these, Stan's were the best. Stan's are still great, but I am liking these better.


If you read this. I am 200lbs, will almost only ride on a paved trail to work. I just bought a new set of 29er Crests, will I break them? I could not pass up the set, new for $349 at an LBS.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

Gabe63 said:


> If you read this. I am 200lbs, will almost only ride on a paved trail to work. I just bought a new set of 29er Crests, will I break them? I could not pass up the set, new for $349 at an LBS.


Riding paved paths on a commute? Not likely.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

Gabe63 said:


> If you read this. I am 200lbs, will almost only ride on a paved trail to work. I just bought a new set of 29er Crests, will I break them? I could not pass up the set, new for $349 at an LBS.


Or it might be better to say, EXTREMELY unlikely


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I weigh 170 and am 58 and have tacoed a Crest and blew a tire completely off a Crest. That said, I was in the dirt. You can probably ride 100 years and unless you hit a curb hard, you will have no issues.


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## llamma (Apr 28, 2012)

Gabe63 said:


> If you read this. I am 200lbs, will almost only ride on a paved trail to work. I just bought a new set of 29er Crests, will I break them? I could not pass up the set, new for $349 at an LBS.


I'm at least 205 geared up--ride roots, rocks, and some small jumps--and haven't broken my Crests yet. That said, I've got a pair of wider LB rims ordered already.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

PS You will love these assuming descent hubs. They actually accelerate faster than the LB wheels since they are lighter. As long as you are not bombing curbs they will be fine and actually ride better. Where the Crests fall down is in steering precision and overall durability/strength. I actually have Flows on my commuter since I do bomb curbs.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

OOXJCO How fast were you going in your avatar picture?


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## JudgeMorris (Jun 22, 2005)

simpy16 said:


> My Light Bicycles 29er UD matte finish rims arrived today and from what I can tell (which isnt much) they seem well constructed.
> 
> I plan to get these built up in the next few weeks and then can compare them to my Enve wheels.
> 
> ...


I'm using Stan's yellow tape. No problems at all.

Edit: Eh...sorry for dropping this response in here kind of late...didn't realize the discussion had kind of moved on....duh...


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> OOXJCO How fast were you going in your avatar picture?


Haha - _Ariel Atom_ fast! Seen the video?


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

goodmojo said:


> Weight wise I only dropped about a pound from the i23s.


This was just what i was looking for. I'm also riding a tallboy LTC with i23's.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I haven't seen the video but I have been up to 165 (180 indicated) on a ZX11.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> I haven't seen the video but I have been up to 165 (180 indicated) on a ZX11.


Awesome! I had a GSXR-1000 I got up to 186, which is also the speed Suzuki claimed it was governed at. I don't know what the 'actual' speed was, seems like they all read high, especially at high speed.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

delete


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

I'm ready to lace up my Wider 29r (reinforced) rims. Need spokes.

I'm using Chris King ISO hubs. SD15 front and 142 thru axel rear.

I'm coming up with spoke lengths of 292/293 front and 293/292 rear. Anyone else lace up the same rim/hub combo? What spoke lengths worked out for you?

Thanks!


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

User error


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Delete


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Same setup I used 292 all around*

Mad lacing super easy.



reamer41 said:


> I'm ready to lace up my Wider 29r (reinforced) rims. Need spokes.
> 
> I'm using Chris King ISO hubs. SD15 front and 142 thru axel rear.
> 
> ...


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

nbwallace said:


> Mad lacing super easy.


Cool! 
I was thinking that would likely work. 
12mm nips?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Yep 12mm brass nipples*

I used Sapim double butted spokes and sapim polyax nipples. I usually get my stuff from bikehubstore.com. Brandon is super nice and the parts get here quickly. His prices are much better than anywhere else.



reamer41 said:


> Cool!
> I was thinking that would likely work.
> 12mm nips?


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

reamer41 said:


> 292/293 front and 293/292 rear


That's what I used for the same setup.


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

You may want to consider going 2 cross, it makes for a better nipple angle towards the hub. The rim is so thick, and the hole is not drilled at an angle so the nipple can't angle toward the hub very well.

As for spoke triangulation, you can just about throw previous wheel building practices out the window with carbon rims. They are so much stiffer that lighter, fewer spokes and fewer crosses works great and may actually build some flex back into the wheel.

I went 2 cross and used 282 mm spokes all around on Kings.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

One more Q: When lacing aluminum rims I have always lubed the nipple seats. Have you all been doing so with carbon rims, and if so, what lube?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Be prepared for dozens of different answers for that. Just use what you've been always using. Being carbon shouldn't make a diff, assuming other things are equal. If you're planning on going high tension go for something more oily and slicker, espec if using a 3x lacing pattern. Anything works really. Hell, I have a 5 QT jug of motor oil with a little oil left that I'd use--can't wait to hear what the bike purists say about that. 

I personally think the locking stuff is for the builds where there isn't very much resistance to nipple turning to tighten it, and therefore less resistance to loosen it. Maybe a "low" tension builds where the spoke enters the nipple in a straight manner, such as in a radial/2x build and/or with rims with angled spoke drilling. Or low spoke count wheels, where each loose spoke would be felt more and you would get more peace of mind with the extra security. With spokes tensioned up to 120kgf, I'd imagine the tension and how the nipples aren't perfectly aligned with the spoke would be more than enough and you'd only need the lubrication for easier build-up as it might get hard to turn once without winding up the spokes at higher tension.


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

No. Run the nipples dry.

I imagine someone, somewhere would have some good advice on a grease that would be good to use on carbon, but the consensus is, there's no squeeking, digging in, or corrosion between the materials so no lubrication is necessary. Some greases could actually be harmful on the carbon. I haven't seen any wheelsets from other mfg's using any lube on rims or any other carbon part for that matter including headsets, seatposts etc.

I have experienced the nipple getting really tight giving me a false hand tension reading, but i think it has just been the nipple getting side loaded in the deep hole of the rim as i explained in my previous posts.

I've taken a carbon Enve spoke out that was broken and the nipple had some rounding at the base where it contacts the rim, but no significant wear on the rim bed. I'd say less rounding than a typical alloy rim/nipple interface has.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Varaxis said:


> Be prepared for dozens of different answers for that. Just use what you've been always using. Being carbon shouldn't make a diff, assuming other things are equal. If you're planning on going high tension go for something more oily and slicker, espec if using a 3x lacing pattern. Anything works really. Hell, I have a 5 QT jug of motor oil with a little oil left that I'd use--can't wait to hear what the bike purists say about that.


Ha! I bet. I'll just go with a dab of synth motor oil then. Thanks.


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## Rune196 (Oct 25, 2011)

*spoke washers*

It will be my first set of carbon rims that i am going to build on my own. Therefore i wonder wether it might be a good idea to use these special nipple washers on the nipple/rim interface to distribute the tension to a bigger surfarce than compared to just the nipple head. 
Any of the experienced wheelbuilders here has something to say about this idea. 
Your feedback is highly appreciated here
THX


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Never expected to hear someone say run the nipples dry, but then again, he did say lace it 2x to get a better spoke-nipple angle, so I can see it from his perspective. I was taught that anything was better than nothing. Talking to various bike shop guys, it seems like many have their own secret concoction, but talking to veterans, they say they tried everything and they all work sufficiently and the whole point of it was to make bringing them up to tension easier, and not keeping the spokes tensioned longer (which was kept tensioned due to high even tension, and stress relieving without wind-up--a quality wheel build).

I thought the grease on carbon thing was a speculative myth, due to how mfgs recommended not greasing seatposts. People believed that grease could permeate the epoxy resin and make the fibrous layers swell (maybe causing the carbon post get stuck in the frame), but I believe an Easton rep in an interview said that wasn't really possible and that it's more because grease would make clamping the seatpost take more torque and the carbon post would compress from torque, requiring even more torque to reduce slipping down, and more torque leads to failure.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Rune196 said:


> It will be my first set of carbon rims that i am going to build on my own. Therefore i wonder wether it might be a good idea to use these special nipple washers on the nipple/rim interface to distribute the tension to a bigger surfarce than compared to just the nipple head.
> Any of the experienced wheelbuilders here has something to say about this idea.
> Your feedback is highly appreciated here
> THX


I looked into this when I picked up my wheel building bits...even got me a bag of the Fulcrum elliptical nipple washers. The short of it...they don't fit/can't get them thru the tire bed/inner rim wall. I'd totally eat the tiny bit of weight gain to be able to put in nipple washers, alas I just went nekkid


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Oh wait, you said lubing the nipple _seats_. Hah... I've never done that. Disregard what I said. That was for spoke prep.

The internal Pillar nipples on the Enve rims are already rounded on at least one end I thought, unless you mean something else. I replaced a spoke on mine and I didn;t even bother to look at the condition of the carbon, but I can see how one might be worried, as the head of the nipple rests and turns right on the carbon, with the spoke pulling on it. I just see it as being like a very dull drill bit with low RPM, but a lot of weight bearing down on it. Kind of reminds me of that show that tried to explain the secrets of Shaolin monks and their Qi, and how they can harden their body to resist an power drill from piercing their skin and skull/neck (youtebe).


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

I weigh 160 lbs. ride around Nashville and Chattanooga. What are the pros and cons of 28 spoke vs. 32 spoke? Approximately, what would be the difference in wheel weight? (I have some 32 hole CK hubs.) I ride XC, with some rocky stuff but no big drops. considering LB wide rims. What spokes should I consider for a good light build? Comments on 2x vs 3x build?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

kindacreeky: at your weight you could go 28 or 32. you would only save the weight of 4 spokes and nipples and your wheels would be a little more aero on the fast downhills. But 32 would be stronger, and have better resale value. If you already have some 32 hubs then I would definitely go 32.

As far as spokes, if you want light and relatively strong, I like DT Revolution.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Just throwing it out there,

I rode about 5km of flowy single track before I noticed my rear wheels spokes loosened to less than finger tight on about 15 spokes and the wheel survived and did not even go out of true (200lbs + pushing hard on climbs).

I then rode about 4km of double track back to the truck where I had a spoke wrench, tightened the spokes and did another 20k - I don't think my old Crest wheels would of made it through that ordeal alive.


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## CYCLEJCE (Nov 2, 2010)

Graphite should work for lubricating the nipple/eyelet interface.


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

Sapim Polyax (brass or alu)


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

reamer41 said:


> One more Q: When lacing aluminum rims I have always lubed the nipple seats. Have you all been doing so with carbon rims, and if so, what lube?


Yes. Use whatever you would for aluminum. I use Phil Wood grease because a q-tip fits perfectly in the end of the tube.
Grease causing carbon harm and carbon not being a factor in corrosion is all misinformation.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> You may want to consider going 2 cross, it makes for a better nipple angle towards the hub. The rim is so thick, and the hole is not drilled at an angle so the nipple can't angle toward the hub very well.
> 
> As for spoke triangulation, you can just about throw previous wheel building practices out the window with carbon rims. They are so much stiffer that lighter, fewer spokes and fewer crosses works great and may actually build some flex back into the wheel.
> 
> I went 2 cross and used 282 mm spokes all around on Kings.


Would you recommend 3 cross on the brake side of the rear, or 2 cross everywhere? I ordered a set of the LB rims and now am planning the build. Will have shop build up the wheels. I am 160 lbs, fairly smooth riding style.
Also, what tension should I have the shop shoot for when they build? I will use 32 hole CK hubs.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Yes. Use whatever you would for aluminum. I use Phil Wood grease because a q-tip fits perfectly in the end of the tube.
> Grease causing carbon harm and carbon not being a factor in corrosion is all misinformation.


Used assembly lube on rim bed and threads...that red molasses thick super slick stuff you find in auto parts stores...w/o any ill effects.


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## Fred Smedley (Feb 28, 2006)

Napa anti seize lubricant #765-1674
NAPA PERMATEX ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

Has anyone had burps with the wide rims using gorilla tape? I read through a lot of pages, but not all, and it doesn't seem that anyone has had any issues at all that I have seen. I have some Bontrager strips on another wheelset that I could move over, but if the Gorilla tape works as well I will just go that route and keep the strips on the back up set.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Haymarket said:


> Has anyone had burps with the wide rims using gorilla tape? I read through a lot of pages, but not all, and it doesn't seem that anyone has had any issues at all that I have seen. I have some Bontrager strips on another wheelset that I could move over, but if the Gorilla tape works as well I will just go that route and keep the strips on the back up set.


Have never burped with gorilla tape and rocket ron / racing ralph / bontrager 29-0, even at 18-20 psi and 200lbs.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

Haymarket said:


> Has anyone had burps with the wide rims using gorilla tape? I read through a lot of pages, but not all, and it doesn't seem that anyone has had any issues at all that I have seen. I have some Bontrager strips on another wheelset that I could move over, but if the Gorilla tape works as well I will just go that route and keep the strips on the back up set.


I burped and couldnt get a reseal with gorilla tape and a maxxis ardent 2.25. Im pretty new so I wasnt sure if I could get a reseal. I pumped it up but still had a leak but didnt pump to full pressure. I put a tube in and the bead reseated. I think if I had pumped to full pressure it might have been ok.


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## five5 (Jun 27, 2011)

Ok guys... 115 pages to go through, but just need to ask a quick question.

I've gone to www.light-bicycles.com... I can't find anywhere where it tells me a price, or how to order.

Can anyone link me?

Thanks!


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

five5,Click on buy & prices come up


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## llamma (Apr 28, 2012)

five5 said:


> Ok guys... 115 pages to go through, but just need to ask a quick question.
> 
> I've gone to www.light-bicycles.com... I can't find anywhere where it tells me a price, or how to order.
> 
> ...


I can only assume you're not looking at the actual product page. Click on the box/arrow in the middle of the product image. The price is the very first thing listed.


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## five5 (Jun 27, 2011)

Got it, my phone wasn't giving me the icons I was looking for... Damn cheap!! 

Thanks!


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

yourdaguy said:


> Well I know you don't believe me, but the video I watched was from a longer shot and it might have been longer than 4 years ago. June of 08 was a little over 4 years and they have had video's way longer than that.


You are right. I followed the instructions to a T on my first set and overlapped the valve hole.

Either that, or we are nuts.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

five5 said:


> Ok guys... 115 pages to go through, but just need to ask a quick question.
> 
> I've gone to www.light-bicycles.com... I can't find anywhere where it tells me a price, or how to order.
> 
> ...


The big blue "Buy It Now" button was a dead give away for me as far as how to order. The "Price" entry (first) in the info table gave me a hint as to what they charge.


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## Constantinos (Dec 25, 2012)

Hong-Fu sports has good carbon wheels


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

Has anyone successfully run these rims w/ the I9 spokes yet? ERD is the same as the STans Flows that are currently on my I9 wheels....thinking of swapping them out for the carbon AM/wider/heavier rims.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*What's good about them?*



Constantinos said:


> Hong-Fu sports has good carbon wheels


 Why do you say they're good? There's no info on their website except a few pictures. Did you buy a pair?


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## five5 (Jun 27, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> The big blue "Buy It Now" button was a dead give away for me as far as how to order. The "Price" entry (first) in the info table gave me a hint as to what they charge.


Wow, you're the man! You are so much better than me. Thanks so much for your guidance.

I apologize for my stupidity, please forgive me.. my phone didn't show the link to where the pricing, and purchasing was, I'm terribly sorry I forced you to reply because I'm so dumb.

Thanks for making your superiority clear.


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

jncarpenter said:


> Has anyone successfully run these rims w/ the I9 spokes yet? ERD is the same as the STans Flows that are currently on my I9 wheels....thinking of swapping them out for the carbon AM/wider/heavier rims.


Can't help about I9 , but go two cross as Krispy has said much better spoke/nipple alignment . I went three but wish I had the shorter spokes, next time two cross for me.
Enve recommend two cross for the same reasons.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

five5 said:


> Wow, thanks for being a ****** bag! If you could read any further down the page, you see that I was using my phone, and the link to that page wasn't visible to me.
> 
> Congrats, I knew there'd be one ******* reply, you're the man!


Classy. :skep:
Sorry to cause so much butt hurt. Didn't realize it was going to affect you so much.
It's the Internet, lighten up! :thumbsup:
You didn't say anything about your phone. My phone showed it... how was I poda know?
Merry Christmas.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

I weigh 190-195 lbs depending on the the time of year and ride aggressive XC and trail on a full suspension bike with lots of rock gardens on occasion, and race occasionally. What do you guys with experience with these rims think...should I order the regular "wider" rims, or do the "wider and stronger" ones make more sense? Thanks.


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## llamma (Apr 28, 2012)

My weight can vary anywhere from 195-205 geared up, I ride aggressive XC on FS, and I ended up ordering the regular "wider" 29er rims with a requested weight of 380-390g. I got the rims last week, and they're both right around 380g. I haven't had them built up yet, but I'm hoping they do the job.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Haymarket said:


> I weigh 190-195 lbs depending on the the time of year and ride aggressive XC and trail on a full suspension bike with lots of rock gardens on occasion, and race occasionally. What do you guys with experience with these rims think...should I order the regular "wider" rims, or do the "wider and stronger" ones make more sense? Thanks.


I'm 195lbs, have ridden DH trails on them, hit 10 foot DH jumps, raced on them, rock gardens etc. - also rode 5km with about 15 spokes so loose they had 0 tension at race pace and they did not even go out of true, my old Crests would of not done well with that. I have about 600km on them so far.

Here's a vid of me riding them rigid; I have a broken arm in this video so nothing too crazy


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

broadwayline said:


> I'm 195lbs, have ridden DH trails on them, hit 10 foot DH jumps, raced on them, rock gardens etc. - also rode 5km with about 15 spokes so loose they had 0 tension at race pace and they did not even go out of true, my old Crests would of not done well with that. I have about 600km on them so far.
> 
> Here's a vid of me riding them rigid; I have a broken arm in this video so nothing too crazy


Very cool video.............

I love my rigid:thumbsup:


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## ryanhugh (Dec 27, 2007)

How much psi are you running up front with the rigid setup?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

meltingfeather said:


> Classy. :skep:
> Sorry to cause so much butt hurt. Didn't realize it was going to affect you so much.
> It's the Internet, lighten up! :thumbsup:
> You didn't say anything about your phone. My phone showed it... how was I poda know?
> ...


Well, in his defense, you do have a tendency to jump on folks and be snarky.

I'm sure you're a fine and decent guy, but that 'giving people the business' stuff doesn't always translate well through the interweb toobz...

Just sayin'...

and this ain't the first time you jumped on somebody, administered a mild bishslap and pis sed somebody off. I'm sure it won't be the last. 



Pau11y said:


> Used assembly lube on rim bed and threads...that red molasses thick super slick stuff you find in auto parts stores...w/o any ill effects.


I'm still unclear on why anybody would want to lube up the nipple seat. Seems to me that is a recipe for loose spokes down the road. If you're tightening nipples up so you can't turn them anymore and need lube to make them even tighter, you're doing something drastically wrong. On any alu rim, you might see some minor set bowing around the nipple or surface discoloration or cracks, but on a carbon rim you can actually crack it down the middle and ruin the rim.

I use a bit of anti-seize on the threads, but even that isn't necessary. I just had one bad experience with seized nipples, and wanted a bit of protection from that.

BTW, I'm 210 pounds these days, and rarely have to true rims... even light XC ones. My wheels tend to be pretty dang 'set-and-forget'.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> Well, in his defense, you do have a tendency to jump on folks and be snarky.
> 
> I'm sure you're a fine and decent guy, but that 'giving people the business' stuff doesn't always translate well through the interweb toobz...
> 
> ...


PM sent


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

ryanhugh said:


> How much psi are you running up front with the rigid setup?


About 20-22 front and 24-25 rear on a Rocket Ron / Racing Ralph :thumbsup:


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Clincher means I can use UST tires correct?
(Other than buying factory wheels I'm new at this)


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## llamma (Apr 28, 2012)

Vegard said:


> Clincher means I can use UST tires correct?
> (Other than buying factory wheels I'm new at this)


Bicycle tire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It doesn't necessarily mean UST. It just means it's not tubular, where the tire is glued to the rim.


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Wiki to the rescue, thanks 

I'm curious about getting a set of these as opposed to a set of crests, tough decision.
I have a set of P321 hubs, but haven't nailed down my rim selection.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I had crests before. No contest the carbons every time even if one breaks I would just replace with another carbon. They are so much better, very stiff so track brilliantly, build a more even tensioned wheel so will be much stronger as well.


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

pimpbot said:


> I'm still unclear on why anybody would want to lube up the nipple seat. Seems to me that is a recipe for loose spokes down the road. If you're tightening nipples up so you can't turn them anymore and need lube to make them even tighter, you're doing something drastically wrong..


I think that lube or grease is more for stopping the carbon from getting chewed & any loosening isn't really an issue due to the extra tension you can dial in on these rims.
I prefer to lube as I like the nipples to all turn with the same force, if they aren't then something is amiss.
As someone who builds a lot more wheels than me said ;
" If you can build your own wheels don't bother with even spoke prep, use anti seize of some sort. If you build a wheel for someone who has no idea & will never check spoke tension use spoke prep"
To each their own, every wheel builder will have their own way.

Hope I haven't offended you


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> I'm still unclear on why anybody would want to lube up the nipple seat. Seems to me that is a recipe for loose spokes down the road. If you're tightening nipples up so you can't turn them anymore and need lube to make them even tighter, you're doing something drastically wrong. On any alu rim, you might see some minor set bowing around the nipple or surface discoloration or cracks, but on a carbon rim you can actually crack it down the middle and ruin the rim.
> 
> I use a bit of anti-seize on the threads, but even that isn't necessary. I just had one bad experience with seized nipples, and wanted a bit of protection from that.


There's galvanic corrosion (your seized nipple...notice that white powdery stuff around the nipple/spoke/rim eyelets?) which a coat of goo can help prevent, and then there is galling during the tension process, especially pronounced during the tension process of non-eyelet'd rims but can also happen when using aluminum nipples...anyway.

Specifically w/ these carbon rims, I experienced a lot more difficulties in turning (aluminum) nipples once I started to approach 100kgf. My LB Wider AM wheels are tensioned to around 95 to 100kgf, and not the 105 to 110 some are reporting on their builds. From all reports, it's the long part of the nipple on the drill hole's wall, and not so much the nipple seat, and this is w/ that assembly lube. BTW, I was also using stuff like Tri-Flo and that Pedro SynLube chain lube and even grease, and I've yet to have a single wheel de-tension itself once I unwind the spokes/nipples by side loading the wheel during the build process. I primarily build for myself, but have also built for some friends. Using this method, I've had feedback that they've basically stopped truing wheels once I built them a set...and this came from really aggressive AM/Trail type riders (w/ aluminum rims). So yeah, the idea that lube will facilitate a wheel to loose tension from riding...I'd call that an ol' wife's tale (provided you unwind the spokes during build).


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

I recently got a PM from Appendage asking about my wheels and I figured I would just post it here instead, thought other people might be interested as well.

Unfortunately there has been several delays so I have not received the wheels yet. I ordered the wheels originally on Dec 12th. I emailed them after about a week asking how close they were to shipping and I was told they should be shipped in 3-4 days. I sent Brian another email after 4 days asking if they were shipping that day and I got a reply saying that it would be another 3-4 days due to the bead of one of the wheels being sanded to far. I told Brian that was fine, I would much rather wait a few extra days and get a defective free wheelset. So those 3-4 days were up night before last and sent another email asking when they would ship. Brian told me that to get the wheels in the weave I wanted (12k) that it would probably be next week sometime before they shipped but that they had a set in UD they could build for me if I wanted. I got that email this morning and replied as soon as I got it saying that would be fine, I personally don't really care what they look like. I haven't gotten a reply but I will let you guys know when I get more info. 
Hopefully they show up sooner than later... I'm starting to get antsy with no bike (tacoed front wheel), it's been almost a month since I've ridden now.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

I think Nancy and Brian tend to over promise and under deliver when it comes to when your stuff will be shipping out. Could it be a cultural thing?

I was anxious to get my rims, now, months later, I still haven't laced 'me up.


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## joe77bike (Jul 2, 2012)

Has anyone experience with yoeleobike of the 30mm wide 27.5" rims?


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

reamer41 said:


> I think Nancy and Brian tend to over promise and under deliver when it comes to when your stuff will be shipping out. Could it be a cultural thing?
> 
> I was anxious to get my rims, now, months later, I still haven't laced 'me up.


When you say you haven't laced them up yet do you mean you just have gotten around to doing it yet or that they haven't shipped yet? Because that second option might be a bit of a problem... I cannot and will not wait months for these.


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## llamma (Apr 28, 2012)

reamer41 said:


> I think Nancy and Brian tend to over promise and under deliver when it comes to when your stuff will be shipping out. Could it be a cultural thing?
> 
> I was anxious to get my rims, now, months later, I still haven't laced 'me up.


Nancy quoted me 3 weeks to make and 4 business days to arrive once shipped. It only took 2 weeks to get shipping confirmation, and they showed up in 4 days. So far I'm pretty impressed with their communication. I'm hoping I won't have to contact them for any warranty issues once I get them built.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

jncarpenter said:


> Has anyone successfully run these rims w/ the I9 spokes yet? ERD is the same as the STans Flows that are currently on my I9 wheels....thinking of swapping them out for the carbon AM/wider/heavier rims.


There is someone that posted in this thread a set of I9 wheels (with their proprietary spokes) built up using the LB rims. I9 gave me a quote of 1000 for them to lace up LB rims that I provided.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Back to LB Novatec hubs:

I had been emailing Nancy about a set of wheels and was very close to pulling the trigger but ended up scoring a screaming fleaBay deal on a set of Rovals. The only thing that held me back was the hub convertibility of the 711/712 series hubs. Well here is the email I got the other day:

Hello Scott,

Sorry for the late reply.
The agent here says current D711 is ok to be used end cap(convert kit).
But i can send you the pictures of D711/D712 hubs, maybe you can check with some bicycle shop to double check if it is ok to use convert kit.

Thanks,
Nancy

So not sure if that is definitive but there it is.

And the hub end cap source I was in contact is:
www.bdopcycling.com/Novatec-Home.asp

I think the Rovals will be great but they'll never be carbon.

-G


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

eonicks said:


> There is someone that posted in this thread a set of I9 wheels (with their proprietary spokes) built up using the LB rims. I9 gave me a quote of 1000 for them to lace up LB rims that I provided.


Cool...this sounds like an uber stiff wheel build! :thumbsup:


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Brian says they'll have the convertible D711s...*



fire_strom said:


> Back to LB Novatec hubs:
> 
> I had been emailing Nancy about a set of wheels and was very close to pulling the trigger but ended up scoring a screaming fleaBay deal on a set of Rovals. The only thing that held me back was the hub convertibility of the 711/712 series hubs. Well here is the email I got the other day:
> 
> ...


Brian at LB told me the Novatec distributor they use will have the convertible D711s in a matter of...months.

Were you able to get the endcaps from bdopcycling? I didn't see them anywhere on his website. The D711 hub he shows is not the convertible version shown on the US Novatec site: D711SB (FH) - Novatec


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

The I9 connection is super slick. I had a set of wide 29er rims sent directly from China to NC to be built with the proprietary spokes and XC hubs. Quick turnaround and I've got a super sweet stiff wheel set to drool over while waiting for the snow to melt.



















I've been riding a set of I9/Flow 29er XC wheels for a couple of years. Comparing weights of the two wheelsets I'm shedding 262 grams of rotating weight.


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## 1banger (Apr 12, 2012)

They look really nice!


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

erikrc10 said:


> When you say you haven't laced them up yet do you mean you just have gotten around to doing it yet or that they haven't shipped yet? Because that second option might be a bit of a problem... I cannot and will not wait months for these.


Just haven't gotten around to doing it. I've had several other big projects. The rims have been sitting in the box in my garage for months now.

They shipped about 2 weeks later than originally promised.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Well no worries, I just got an email from Brian saying my wheels have shipped. 

Will post pictures here as soon as they get here.


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## J Hartman (Nov 8, 2012)

erikrc10 said:


> Well no worries, I just got an email from Brian saying my wheels have shipped.
> 
> Will post pictures here as soon as they get here.


please do, also are these the rims from light bicycle? There is getting to be so many pages and different link of the chinese carbon rims we need to break it down into pictures and where you got them. LOL


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Haha, yes these are from light bicycle. I will post all the details once they get here.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

*second set*

Built up a second set of wheels. Loving carbon rims, next might be the road bike. 
Rear, no tape and no valve = 808g
Front, tape and no valve= 708g
Both 32 spoke count and X-ray spokes with Al nipples.


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## 29STL (Jul 12, 2011)

Have a buddy who built a set of the light bicycle rims and so far he really likes them. One of his rims looked like it was starting to come apart (carbon weaves separating) but it very well could have been from bottoming out. Contacted them and they sent another right out, just took a couple of weeks to get here from china.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Any of you guys running Novatec hubs know what the cassette body is made out of? I'm just curious because I'm running a SLX cassette at the moment and I know they can tear up aluminum cassette bodies.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

Whats the current wait time on these rims?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

PainkillerSPE said:


> Whats the current wait time on these rims?


I think my rims shipped 14 business days after payment.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

hogprint said:


> The I9 connection is super slick. I had a set of wide 29er rims sent directly from China to NC to be built with the proprietary spokes and XC hubs. Quick turnaround and I've got a super sweet stiff wheel set to drool over while waiting for the snow to melt.
> 
> I've been riding a set of I9/Flow 29er XC wheels for a couple of years. Comparing weights of the two wheelsets I'm shedding 262 grams of rotating weight.


Hi hogprint, forgive me if this has already been answered...can I9 spokes be used with standard LB rims? I read somewhere on this thread that larger holes may be required.

Thanks,
Richard.


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## hogprint (Oct 17, 2005)

No modification required.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*For that weight...*



erikrc10 said:


> Any of you guys running Novatec hubs know what the cassette body is made out of? I'm just curious because I'm running a SLX cassette at the moment and I know they can tear up aluminum cassette bodies.


.. the freehub body has to be alu.

and you can run your SLX cassette on an alu hub. You will likely get little gouge marks under each cog, and that sometimes makes the cassette stick to the freehub, making it hard to remove.

As long as you know that going into it....

I'd say get the wheels with the alu hub, and just get an XT cassette. I mean, it's not as if XT cassettes are that spendy. I just got one for under $60 landed.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*No problem*



erikrc10 said:


> Any of you guys running Novatec hubs know what the cassette body is made out of? I'm just curious because I'm running a SLX cassette at the moment and I know they can tear up aluminum cassette bodies.


 If your Novatec hubs don't come the ABG (Anti Bite Guard) freehub already, you can upgrade to it for cheap: Wheels-Parts


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

That ABG looks like a bad idea. One strip of steel means that the cassettes get gouged teeth where they hit steel and the rest of the teeth still dig into the aluminum. Worst of both worlds=ruin cassettes and ruin freehub!


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

pimpbot said:


> .. the freehub body has to be alu.


Please excuse my ignorance but why do you say it has to be aluminum?.. I have certainly owned wheels with steel freehub bodies before.

Weirdly, Brian told me they are steel but after double checking myself they are definitely aluminum.

Thanks Appendage, I will definitely look more into those when the time comes.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Aluminum is much lighter than steel. This is WW issue.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

GTR-33 said:


> The point of my post wasn't to be a dick but to instead help spread the information that you can't put that much in a tubeless tire. It's vital piece of information that NO ONE ever talks about. It's always an afterthought. Most people, even those that own tubeless products don't seem to know this.
> 
> As for my statement of warranty... You cannot honestly say that people don't try to get away with much worse. If I had a nickel for every bike that was damaged and I warrantied that was just riding along... In my opinion the rim shouldn't have failed so it's a legitimate claim.
> 
> It's really easy to be whatever you want to appear to be anonymously over the internet though isn't it?


Plain as day right here from the Experts: Tire Inflating Tips


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

erikrc10 said:


> Please excuse my ignorance but why do you say it has to be aluminum?.. I have certainly owned wheels with steel freehub bodies before.
> 
> Weirdly, Brian told me they are steel but after double checking myself they are definitely aluminum.
> 
> Thanks Appendage, I will definitely look more into those when the time comes.


For that weight, it has to be alu. Aren't the Novatec hubs like 280 grams, or something crazy light like that? A steel cassette body adds like 130g to a rear hub over an alu cassette body. That would put the hub close to 400g.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

yourdaguy said:


> That ABG looks like a bad idea. One strip of steel means that the cassettes get gouged teeth where they hit steel and the rest of the teeth still dig into the aluminum. Worst of both worlds=ruin cassettes and ruin freehub!


Isn't this exactly what American Classic does on their hubs now?


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

pimpbot said:


> For that weight, it has to be alu. Aren't the Novatec hubs like 280 grams, or something crazy light like that? A steel cassette body adds like 130g to a rear hub over an alu cassette body. That would put the hub close to 400g.


Oookay, gotcha that makes more sense. Things like tone of voice don't get transferred over the internet and I took that in the wrong way. My bad... 
Yeah they weigh in at somewhere around 280g.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

No, American Classic has 3 steel inserts to spread the load to 3 teeth of the sprockets. I have the AM hub and it works great. Using only 1 steel insert to carry the entire peddling load on only one tooth of the sprocket will fail miserably. It might work for a 150 lb spinner but anyone else will generate too much torque for the amount of contact area.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I agree that one steel insert isn't enough, however, I thought that 3 weren't enough for AC bodies. That being said I can't see it failing miserably. It will simply gouge the cassette body in other places or gouge the cassette, neither of which should fail faster than previously, IMO.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

It will fail miserably by damaging one of the teeth on each sprocket, the ones that are in contact with the steel insert.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2012)

So let me throw this out there...

I had been considering grabbing some Light Bicycle carbon rims and building them up with some BHS hubs, DT Revs or SuperComps, and DT alloy nips. Total cost would be around $700 after shipping, tax and labor on the build. But, I can grab a set of the new 2013 Roval Control Carbon 29 (MSRP $1200) for $950. 

With the Rovals, I get a warranty and LBS support for my extra dollars, but I also get a radially-laced front wheel which seems a little silly. With the L-B rims, I get to choose my finish, get a wider rim with a bead hook, and I can lace them up 3X all the way around. 

What would you do and why?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The LB wheels would be way stiffer and probably wider. Also, did you include tax in your calculations? My opinion is better wheels and way less money. Others would disagree so it is really up to what you want.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

davidcarson48 said:


> So let me throw this out there...
> 
> I had been considering grabbing some Light Bicycle carbon rims and building them up with some BHS hubs, DT Revs or SuperComps, and DT alloy nips. Total cost would be around $700 after shipping, tax and labor on the build. But, I can grab a set of the new 2013 Roval Control Carbon 29 (MSRP $1200) for $950.
> 
> ...


I've been watching this thread for a while and after Specialized announced those wheels, that will be the way I'm going. I can get them for about the same price. I like having Specialized warranty and LBS support. They're DTswiss internals, so for me they are actually about the same price as getting a set of LB wheels build with DTSwiss hubs.Just depends on what it is worth more to you. I happen to like the owner of my LBS and I've been able to get stuff I need a close to internet prices and great support.



yourdaguy said:


> The LB wheels would be way stiffer and probably wider. Also, did you include tax in your calculations? My opinion is better wheels and way less money. Others would disagree so it is really up to what you want.


You base the stiffness on what, a wild guess? You don't even know the difference in width, yet you know enough to give an opinion that the LB wheels would be better.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The Lb wheels are as wide as Crests in how they hold the tires. I have yet to see any other rim that for the same width holds the tires as wide as Stans rims. The LB rims are around the same width as Flows but only hold the wheels as wide as Crests. I am almost certain that the Rovals are close to the width of Arch's IIRC so they would not hold the tires as wide as the LB wheels. Instead of just criticizing my ideas why don't you prove that the Rovals are wider or something useful. I have 12 wheelsets and have ridden many more and the 2 sets of LB wheels are by far the stiffest. I have not personally ridden the Rovels, but others that have who's opinion I respect have not claimed them to be among the stiffest wheels.

While we are on the subject of subjective reasoning; how can you assume that the internals are the same one's DT uses in their wheels? Are they exactly the same of just made by DT on a contract from Specialized to Specialized specifications? The LB plant used to make Specialized carbon rims so that should make these every bit as good as the Specialized rims too right? You can't have it both ways.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I don't think so*



yourdaguy said:


> It will fail miserably by damaging one of the teeth on each sprocket, the ones that are in contact with the steel insert.


The load is still spread about all of the splines, both alu and steel. The steel insert will keep the cassette body from moving, and digging in any further. As long as the cassette doesn't move, it won't dig in and still spread the load around.

I know folks who ran a cheaper cassette on fully alu freehub bodies, and even those don't 'fail miserably'. They just leave little gank marks under each cassette cog. You can still back the cassette off the body, back it out of the notches, and pull the cassette off. Sometimes, it's a PITA, but it comes off. You can file down the raised burrs and keep on riding it.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You could be right, but I bet Bill Shook (owner of AM) tested less than 3 since he ended up with 3 and not all splines backed with steel. I am willing to bet that he found with less than 3 and strong riders the steel teeth on the sprockets started to deform against the one or two steel inserts and the rest of the splines being aluminum provided little resistance to deformation. I guess we will find out in 6 months or so when people get some experience with the single steel freehub.

I hope it works, it would be great for all involved, I just think that it looks to me like it will be too much pressure on the one splinetoooth.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Rovals for $950? Where?*



davidcarson48 said:


> So let me throw this out there...
> I can grab a set of the new 2013 Roval Control Carbon 29 (MSRP $1200) for $950.


If I could get a set of the Rovals for $950, I'd do it. Reliable and prompt warranty service is worth a few hundred extra bucks. Where do you get that sweet deal?


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> The LB wheels would be way stiffer and probably wider. Also, did you include tax in your calculations? My opinion is better wheels and way less money. Others would disagree so it is really up to what you want.


I did include tax in both costs. They are both wide enough for me, but why would the L-B be stiffer?


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2013)

Appendage said:


> If I could get a set of the Rovals for $950, I'd do it. Reliable and prompt warranty service is worth a few hundred extra bucks. Where do you get that sweet deal?


I'm not at liberty to post it here, but it's an inside deal through a retail shop.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

davidcarson48 said:


> I'm not at liberty to post it here, but it's an inside deal through a retail shop.


I think the biggest advantage of the LB rims is a cost shift from warranty/brand to better hubs/spokes and local hand built.

I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Jake?*



Adroit Rider said:


> I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.


 Jake?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Appendage said:


> Jake?


Jake, baseball slang meaning a lazy player or a half-hearted effort, i.e. "He jaked that play."

He jaked that build or that build is jake.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Learn something every day*



Adroit Rider said:


> Jake, baseball slang meaning a lazy player or a half-hearted effort, i.e. "He jaked that play."
> 
> He jaked that build or that build is jake.


 Ah, okay. Yeah, I can see that. But to me, the most important thing is stuff that works at a price I can afford. If it happens to say "Roval" on it, I can live with it. Admittedly, though, this sort of thinking is probably why I always failed in the swimsuit competition.


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## william.lin (Dec 28, 2012)

if you want cheap rims, you have to buy them from china. you also need to compared the price and the quality.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

davidcarson48 the LB wheels are the stiffest wheels I have ever ridden. The reason I think the Roval's won't be as stiff are that they eliminated the bead hook on the rims which would tend to make the rims less stiff and they use straight pull spokes. Straight pull spokes do not have the bracing angle the normal spokes do and are not as stiff. Also, in general terms, machine built wheels are less stiff than good quality hand built wheels.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

EDIT

DELETED already covered. 

-G


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2013)

Adroit Rider said:


> I think the biggest advantage of the LB rims is a cost shift from warranty/brand to better hubs/spokes and local hand built.
> 
> I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.


I agree with this. It is among my considerations, for sure.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> davidcarson48 the LB wheels are the stiffest wheels I have ever ridden. The reason I think the Roval's won't be as stiff are that they eliminated the bead hook on the rims which would tend to make the rims less stiff and they use straight pull spokes. Straight pull spokes do not have the bracing angle the normal spokes do and are not as stiff. Also, in general terms, machine built wheels are less stiff than good quality hand built wheels.


I hadn't considered that the bead hook could contribute to stiffness.

I was under the impression that straight pull spokes built a stiffer wheel because they were laced at a higher tension. Is that wrong? Or at least not an absolute rule?

The Rovals are hand built as well.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Adroit Rider said:


> I think the biggest advantage of the LB rims is a cost shift from warranty/brand to better hubs/spokes and local hand built.
> 
> I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.


Specialized make components as well as bikes. So Specialized tires, saddle, seat post etc... only belong on Specialized bikes?


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

So does having Specialized seats on a Salsa, a Santa Cruz and a Pivot make them all jake. Do the Roval wheels on the Santa Cruz balance out the jakeness or make it double jake?

That's all nonsense. 
G


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> The Lb wheels are as wide as Crests in how they hold the tires. I have yet to see any other rim that for the same width holds the tires as wide as Stans rims. The LB rims are around the same width as Flows but only hold the wheels as wide as Crests. I am almost certain that the Rovals are close to the width of Arch's IIRC so they would not hold the tires as wide as the LB wheels. Instead of just criticizing my ideas why don't you prove that the Rovals are wider or something useful. I have 12 wheelsets and have ridden many more and the 2 sets of LB wheels are by far the stiffest. I have not personally ridden the Rovels, but others that have who's opinion I respect have not claimed them to be among the stiffest wheels.
> 
> While we are on the subject of subjective reasoning; *how can you assume that the internals are the same one's DT uses in their wheels? Are they exactly the same of just made by DT on a contract from Specialized to Specialized specifications? * The LB plant used to make Specialized carbon rims so that should make these every bit as good as the Specialized rims too right? You can't have it both ways.


Pretty sure DTswiss would have a problem with Specialized specifically saying DT350 internals if they weren't to the same spec.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> davidcarson48 the LB wheels are the stiffest wheels I have ever ridden. The reason I think the *Roval's won't be as stiff are that they eliminated the bead hook on the rims which would tend to make the rims less stiff *and they use straight pull spokes. Straight pull spokes do not have the bracing angle the normal spokes do and are not as stiff. Also, in general terms, machine built wheels are less stiff than good quality hand built wheels.


You sure about that? They claim the opposite. 
"Rim uses a zero bead-hook design for use of continuous fiber across the sidewall and rim bed, which creates a stronger impact resistance."

So since I don't work with carbon, I'd like to hear from someone that does, not a guess from someone without any true knowledge about it.

Not trying to get into a pissing match because I really would like to hear opinions on the no bead hook. I have a quote on some wheels with 240 and LB rims, but they are the same price as the Rovals and won't have the LBS warranty and support that Rovals will, so its a tuff choice.

I'm sure the OP is having the same problem and 'I think' from people that don't really know doesn't really help


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

Adroit Rider said:


> I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.





Adroit Rider said:


> Jake, baseball slang meaning a lazy player or a half-hearted effort, i.e. "He jaked that play."
> 
> He jaked that build or that build is jake.


Wow, that's really trying to force an expression into a meaning. Leave the baseball slang to baseball and don't try and bring it to MTBing. It just doesn't fit, work or even make sense.

In fact, it's pretty lame. Should we all have matching brands for all our bits and pieces? Is it "jake" to put WTB or Ritchey parts on non WTB or Ritchey bikes? Is it "jake" to put Specialized tires on a non-Spec bike (remember, Spec started as a tire company)? What about Easton bars on a non... er, wait, they don't make bikes. What about Candy pedals on a... oh, wait, they don't make bikes, either.

Using the best components for a rider is a matter of taste preference... and we all have different tastes and needs for our bikes. To accuse someone of being lazy for using a part they feel meets their needs is pretty presumptuous.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

ruscle said:


> I did, spokes were 1mm through the back of the nipples on one side on both wheels, so no problems as didn't run out of thread.


I too am planning to do the same thing. I think I read where you can just tape the new rim to the old rim and one by one move each spoke over to the respective hole and then re-true, tension, dish, etc. Is this the quickest/best way to swap? I am using C/K hubs with Arch rims (which have a similar ERD). My current spokes are 292mm DT Swiss Supercomps.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The Rovals are apparently hand built according the the Spec website. My bad. Straight pull spokes provide less bracing angle and are not as stiff laterally which is the stiffness that I am referring to and that I want to maximize. All else being equal, wider rims would be stiffer and rims with a bead hook would be stiffer since that extra material at the end would stiffen the bead area up compared to no bead seat. The claim that they gain the stiffness back by having lateral fibers doesn't make a lot of sense to me since you could also use lateral fibers in a beadhook rim and the layup is up to the engineer with carbon wheels so anyone could use any layup they wanted. Sounds like marketing.

The fact that they have no bead hook would be a deal killer for sure for me. I have blown a tire completely off a Stan's rim (which would flex a lot more, but still) and it will only take about one lawsuite and that idea will be over forever. Also, since the industry standard is for a beadhook the tire manufacturer will be able to put the entire blame on Specialized for any failure. The LB rims with the Trek rim strip hold the tires so tight that it is hard to break them off with zero air pressure. The fact that a couple of Spec engineers road rims around with no beadhook and didn't break anything gives me little reassurance and they probably only used their tires. The 25 psi lower limit would also be a deal breaker since on my 4 bikes my front pressures are 19, 20, 23, 23 and the rears are 23, 24, 27, 26. so only 2 of my 8 positions could even consider these rims.

The warranty is only as good as Specialized makes it: Roval Carbon Wheel Problems - Topic
And you are totally at their mercy with regards to the interpretation of said warranty. While this guy is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, what he did is something that a rim engineer should consider that some of their customers might do with a wheel. The fact that blowing tires off is a known problem and that the rim gave up way before the tire also gives me pause. The fact that it was Georgia and not the Alps or the Pyrenees or the Rockies also makes me think the Spec should replace this guys wheel.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

fire_strom said:


> So does having Specialized seats on a Salsa, a Santa Cruz and a Pivot make them all jake. Do the Roval wheels on the Santa Cruz balance out the jakeness or make it double jake?
> 
> That's all nonsense.
> G


There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Sheepo5669 said:


> You are right. I followed the instructions to a T on my first set and overlapped the valve hole.
> 
> Either that, or we are nuts.


That is definitely what used to be on the notubes site. The main thing is to overlap it a few inches in one place or another so it will be secure...makes no difference where.


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## Spark10 (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi guys
Does the wider Nancy 29" rim make the tire wider once mounted to the rim? 
I do not have a lot of clearance at the chainstays of my Scott Scale 29'er and am wondering if a wider rim will reduce the clearance even further?


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Adroit Rider said:


> There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.


Ok.


----------



## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Deleted


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Spark10 said:


> Hi guys
> Does the wider Nancy 29" rim make the tire wider once mounted to the rim?
> I do not have a lot of clearance at the chainstays of my Scott Scale 29'er and am wondering if a wider rim will reduce the clearance even further?


Yes it will.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.


Thank goodness my "Jake" has the same brand stem and post.



Rovals, a Salsa handlebar, SRAM shifters and rear derailleur mixed with a DuraAce FD, a RaceFace crankset with Rotor Q Rings, and my gosh - a Bontrager bottle cage, a WTB saddle and heaven forbid - tires from Schwalbe!!! And uh oh.....my fork is a RockShox and the rear suspension is Fox.

If you think Jake is a major _faux pas_, you out to see Jake Junior....:nono:


----------



## dlennard (Jun 22, 2011)

Bike looks good, but your house is missing a piece of siding to the right of the door and your door jamb is starting to rot. smile


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Jake off*

Dude, I can't believe you'd have your downspout empty onto your hardscape. That is SO jake!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

dlennard said:


> Bike looks good, but your house is missing a piece of siding to the right of the door and your door jamb is starting to rot. smile


Yup. 

The little piece of fake "siding" was never there to begin with when the house was built. The rot is actually just paint peeling that is on the "to do list" for this summer. It was painted too quickly in high humidity conditions after we got hit by this SOB in July of 2010.



In the high humidity, it didn't cure properly. I don't think anything dried out that summer it was so wet. It will need some good attention this summer for sure.
*
Edit: I just went outside to shovel some snow and chop some ice. It's rot alright. The entire paint is now cracked all around the frame from the sub zero temperatures.*

Summer project coming up....

Downspout is an extra one I had installed after the tornado to help with water overflow in the "once every 50 year rains" we seem to be getting 3 times every year in the past 6 years now with global warming. And yes, I want it on the hardscape to keep it out of my lawn. Iowa is the new gulf of Mexico climate. Things have been so saturated here for years that nobody's lawn needs any additional water from downspouts. I put about a year's salary into French Drains, new high volume flow gutters and downspouts, additional sump-pump and interior drainage system, got a permit to run the new sump-pump discharge directly into the city's storm sewer, etc... .

All that - and then we had a drought in 2012.

So, I ride and live a Jake.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Jake on!
-G


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## mtroy (Jun 10, 2005)

deleted...sounded too mean.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Spark10 it will hold the tires wider than Arch rims but about the same as Crest rims even though these rims are wider than Crest, the Stans bead seat does a better job of holding a tire wide. You didn't say wider compared to what so this might help you get an idea.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*How to break the bead?*



yourdaguy said:


> The LB rims with the Trek rim strip hold the tires so tight that it is hard to break them off with zero air pressure.


 I have the same experience with my Bonty rim strips on Bonty wheels- I can't break it loose! Any tips?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Thumb exercises! Seriously, you just have to push real hard with both thumbs. But the good news is, you are never going to burp one of these babies!


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Where can I get some carbon thumbs?*



yourdaguy said:


> Thumb exercises! Seriously, you just have to push real hard with both thumbs. But the good news is, you are never going to burp one of these babies!


 I'm an older guy with frail, slender hands, and my thumbs just can't get it done. I get it done by putting the tire in a vise and tilting the wheel sideways until it pops, but that's not going to help me trailside.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Brace the wheel across a tree limb and step gently on the tire.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

IF you ride in the desert and no tree limbs lay the wheel across your other (hopefully inflated) tire and step on the deflated tire.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

Good idea! Plenty of tree limbs around here...too many in fact.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

N.m. I'm an idiot.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Appendage said:


> I'm an older guy with frail, slender hands, and my thumbs just can't get it done. I get it done by putting the tire in a vise and tilting the wheel sideways until it pops, but that's not going to help me trailside.


You might consider (if not already doing) bringing along stans fluid, a valve stem core remover, and an injector for trailside repairs to seal leaks.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

You omitted an air compressor from your list. I just carry a tube. Come to think of it, even tho I have difficulty breaking the bead loose at home, it hasn't been a problem trailside. Perhaps by the time I notice I've flat and find a place to pull over, the bead dislodges itself.


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

Adroit Rider said:


> There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.


That's a much better way to say it, rather than call someone lazy and half-assed who disagrees with your approach.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I just use Yellow tape with Stans rims and install a tube if my above fix does not seal up. With the yellow tape and whatever type of tires (I usually use non tubeless Maxxis for the rear and a TR Racing Ralph 2.4 in the front) they are easily unseated by hand. I think I will start using the Gorilla Tape (just because it is so much more readily available and less expensive). A CO^2 Cartridge (on the trail) will normally blow the tire up just fine and then you can top it off with a pump if needed.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

skiahh said:


> That's a much better way to say it, rather than call someone lazy and half-assed who disagrees with your approach.




According to online research of the meaning of "jake", I find this....

*adjective*

 in good standing.

in good standing, or at the least without conflict.

Now that you've paid up, we're jake.

alright, fine.

If you want to, that's jake with me.

I'm jake with that.

generally displeasing.

That game is totally jake.

good, well, satisfactory.

By his broad smile I knew all was jake.

*noun*

 a police officer.

There sure are a lot of jakes out tonight.

_ general derogatory term for another person._

That foo ain't nothin' but a Jake.

*verb - intransitive*

_to fake an injury, to hang back in play, to malinger, to loaf_

"Everyone on the team is trying except Joe. He's jaking it."

That's the problem with slang, it takes on whatever meaning the user wants it to take. Of the submitted definitions, 4 of the descriptions as an adjective are positive and 1 is negative. Adroit Rider used the slang term _jake_ as an adjective in the following sentence:

_I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake._

This, of course, would be the "generally displeasing" definition from the Online Slang Dictionary.

If we choose another description of the adjective_ jake_ from the Online Slang Dictionary, the same sentence could mean in good standing, alright, fine, good, well, satisfactory.

Changes the meaning entirely, but evidently is also acceptable. So the same exact sentence said by me with regard to my JET 9....

_I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake._ would be good, fine.


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## ErikGBL (Mar 26, 2008)

[


yourdaguy said:


> ... Straight pull spokes provide less bracing angle and are not as stiff laterally which is the stiffness that I am referring to and that I want to maximize....


 I assume that straight pull is the same as radially laced spokes and will will question that this lacing give less lateral stiffness. Actually, I think it is opposite: the fewer crossings, the stiffer wheel, both radially and laterally. There could be other disadvantages with radial lacing, but stiffness is not a problem.


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## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

Anyone gets a full wheelset with novatec hubs? They have a 28mm ext wider and weights 1750g.. The hubs weight 400g and the spokes 6,5g each (450g per 64set)... Is it a good business? 

Send from Tapatalk via GalaxyTab


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

ErikGBL said:


> [ I assume that straight pull is the same as radially laced spokes and will will question that this lacing give less lateral stiffness. Actually, I think it is opposite: the fewer crossings, the stiffer wheel, both radially and laterally. There could be other disadvantages with radial lacing, but stiffness is not a problem.


Straight-pull or j-bend is a separate concept from lacing pattern. Either can be laced in a variety of ways. The exception is that straight pull hubs have to be manufactured with a particular lacing pattern in mind.

As for number of crosses, zero cross (radial lacing) is definitely less stiff rotationaly. It is relatively easy to rotate a radially laced hub while the rim stays still. This is why radial lacing isn't used with disc brakes and is typically only used on one side of the wheel even with rim brakes.

I've noticed that th LB rims are thicker than aluminum rims where each nipple passes through. This keeps the nipple extremely straight, always pointed exactly radially. This results in a bend each spoke directly at the nipple when using a typical 3-cross pattern. A minor benefit is that it seems to help spokes resist wind up while lacing.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

ftajiri said:


> Anyone gets a full wheelset with novatec hubs? They have a 28mm ext wider and weights 1750g.. The hubs weight 400g and the spokes 6,5g each (450g per 64set)... Is it a good business?
> 
> Send from Tapatalk via GalaxyTab


Mine is suppose to get here today. Will post weights, pictures, etc as soon as I can.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ErikGBL said:


> I assume that straight pull is the same as radially laced spokes/QUOTE]
> Why?
> Straight pull MTB wheels are cross-patterned, not radial.
> 
> He's talking about lateral bracing angle, which is affected by the chunky spoke-to-hub connections required for straight pull.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

They arrived this morning! They came in at 1696 grams (948 for the rear and 748 for the front). I gave them a quick check and everything looked good. I just dropped them off at Carolina Bike Mechanic to make sure everything is tensioned right and that everything looked okay. I have to work tonight so I will pick them up first thing tomorrow morning.


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## william.lin (Dec 28, 2012)

a new bike is coming.


erikrc10 said:


> They arrived this morning! They came in at 1696 grams (948 for the rear and 748 for the front). I gave them a quick check and everything looked good. I just dropped them off at Carolina Bike Mechanic to make sure everything is tensioned right and that everything looked okay. I have to work tonight so I will pick them up first thing tomorrow morning.


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## Jason.MT (May 30, 2012)

ftajiri said:


> Anyone gets a full wheelset with novatec hubs? They have a 28mm ext wider and weights 1750g.. The hubs weight 400g and the spokes 6,5g each (450g per 64set)... Is it a good business?
> 
> Send from Tapatalk via GalaxyTab


 novatec D711/712SB hub + sapim Delta spokes and sapim nipples, weight: 1400g /pair, super light? what do you think.


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

Anyone laced them with Titanium spokes? Does it make sense? I mean, super stiff rims with more "flexible" spokes...


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Ti spokes are a waste of money. I would definitely want stainless in the front for stiffness reasons. I guess if someone couldn't get enough compliance from their rear tire and seat post and frame and seat, they could make a case in the rear (pun intended).

Basically, not as stiff, not as reliable, way more expensive.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*When you have 15mm front axle compatibility, let us know*



Jason.MT said:


> novatec D711/712SB hub + sapim Delta spokes and sapim nipples, weight: 1400g /pair, super light? what do you think.


When you have 15mm front axle compatibility, let us know


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Got my bike all setup today. This was my first attempt going tubeless and it was a snap. Much easier than people made it sound. I had no problem getting the bead to seat on my Nevegals with the use of a little soapy water. They are still a little weepy but I'm hoping everything will be sealed up tomorrow for the first real ride. I haven't really ridden in two months due to being out of the country and then tacoing my wheel on my second ride home. So I don't have the best baseline for what the bike felt like before since it's been so long but the bike felt lighter and snappier on the quick sprint up and down the street.

Also, the freehub is steel and NOT aluminum. It's different than the ones speced on Novatec's website. I actually prefer that since I had a spare SLX cassette laying around that I can now use without worrying about it causing damage.

The bike got a cleaning along with a new cassette and chain today. It's going to be a happy bike when I take it out tomorrow. I'm also throwing in the towel on these awful Elixer brakes. I'm ordering some XT brakes later tonight. That will leave the only real thing left that I want to upgrade is to carbon bars. Those will wait awhile though.

Will post some pictures of them out in the wild tomorrow if I get a chance.


20130104_133206 by ErikRC10, on Flickr

20130105_122556 by ErikRC10,









20130105_202732


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

There's more talk of galvanic corrosion between aluminum nipples and carbon fiber on another thread. It seems there have been alot of carbon wheels built w/ aluminum nipples and I haven't heard of alot of failures due to galvanic corrosion. Any more thoughts from the experts? TIA.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Do brass nipples corrode alloy rims if you ride them through slushie roads laced with deicing salts or taken for dips in salt water? Or do steel spokes corrode aluminum nipples or hubs? Why so paranoid? What's the worst case scenario?


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

Jason.MT said:


> novatec D711/712SB hub + sapim Delta spokes and sapim nipples, weight: 1400g /pair, super light? what do you think.


Wide rim? 32h? Nice weight


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Aluminum nipples that are annodized (colored and most clear ones) would be very resistant to galvanic corrosion with carbon wheels and stainless spokes. I could see where long term aluminum nipples would probably suffer from galvanic corrosion between stainless spokes (or ti spokes for that matter) and carbon rims. But in most usage situations they should last for many years. Brass nipples should last a lifetime being all but immune to corrosion.
Having an inboard ski boat I know that they used to make propellers out of brass but now they make them out of nibril which is nickel, aluminum, and brass. They are stronger than brass (can be made thinner) lighter than brass, and never corrode. They are not as light as aluminum but much stronger so I would nominate nibril as a good material to make nipples out of other than the fact that it is probably hard to "work". Besides, I just love saying "nibril nipples".


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## mackienz (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm thinking of getting the regular Non-wide light rims for xc racing and I was wondering if they can be run tubeless very well. Also seems like most people are getting the Wider rims is there anyone who can Comment on the non-wide version of the rims? strength.stiffness
Thanks


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

First ride impressions: 

I will start off by saying this was basically my first ride in 3 months. I left the country for a month at the beginning of October and on my second ride after I got back tacoed my front wheel. I then spent a long time trying to decide what I wanted to do, whether it be just get a new rim or buy a new wheelset. I finally decided on the wheelset. 

I have to say these wheels are awesome! Even with my weak legs and lungs I was flying up the hills. I never felt sluggish on the climb, where as before when things got steep it would feel like the bike was pulling itself to a stop. I shaved 500g off my old wheelset, before going tubeless. So in total these wheels setup tubeless weigh less than 3/4 of my old wheels with tubes. All that weight being gone made technical climbs a breeze as well. The only limiting factor was my legs, no riding in 3 months will really put the hurt on. The stiffness was very noticeable as well, the steering was lightening quick. It went where ever I pointed it. That being said I don't really notice much flex as it is. I'm just under 6' and weigh about 145lbs with all my gear on so things have to be pretty weak to flex under me. I took it somewhat easy on the downs, mainly because I had lost some of my mojo with being off the bike so long. I was a little nervous to try and do tailwhips and the like as well because of how tiny the Novatec rear hub is, just makes me a little cautious. I'm sure I will get past that with another couple rides though. 

Also, TUBELESS! Man I should have done that a looong time ago. I kept telling myself I would do it with my next set of tires and I never got around to it. The tires were so supple without a tube being in there. Gravel roads and little rocks just disappeared. It was amazing, that's not something I was really expecting. At least not to that degree. The Nevegals still haven't sealed up all the way so they had lost a bit of pressure by the end of the ride, but nothing major. For those of you out there that still haven't gone tubeless, do it! 


I have a question about spoke tension on carbon wheels. I took them to my mechanic (really just more of my wheel guy) to get them checked out and he said that they looked good but the spoke tension seemed a bit low. He said not knowing the spec on the wheels and not working much with carbon wheels in general he didn't want to mess with it since everything else looked good. So my question is, do carbon rims usually have a lower spoke tension than aluminium rims?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Not these.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Heh....*



Adroit Rider said:


> There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.


I have VW Eos wheels on my Audi. Looks pretty sweet, if I do say so myself... even looks factory. Of course, I substituted the VW center caps with Audi ones. The car needed tires, and I found these new take-offs on craigslist for cheaper than new tires, plus I bumped it from 15" rims with 65 aspect tires to 17s with 45 aspect. All I had to do was to get the tires remounted and balanced... and three of them were spot on balanced out with no weights. :thumbsup:



Point is, these are not coveted collector's items, like a 1970 GTO with matching serial numbers...that sorta thing. No need to get bogged down too much on useless details... unless you really want to, I guess. meh...


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## blantonator (May 6, 2007)

anyone try these yet?

2013 YISHUNBIKE 29er 25mm clincher mtb Tubeless carbon Wheels [YS-CM29T] - $0.00 : welcome to YISHUNBIKE OFFICIAL shop, WORLDWIDE FREE SHIPPING


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

No price and not that light.


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## bullitrider86 (Mar 27, 2006)

i bought a set for my road bike and have put over a 500 miles on them with no problem... I have been thinking about buying a set since the price is so good just to see how they hold up.


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## Pepperagge (Feb 25, 2004)

*Happy*

Ok, I have been using the wider AM rims on my Rocky Mountain element for about half a year now. I got rather heavy rims (400g/each) and laced them 3-cross with 64 Sapim D-light spokes and alu nipples to Hope Evo 2 hubs (20mm front/142-12 rear). The building process went without any problems. I ride in pretty muddy and rooty beech and firtree forests. I got the rims mainly for the low weight and wider tire footprint. I run them tubeless like most people do, with Bontrager rimstrips. I use my homebrew tubeless solution and Maxxis tires.

Brian was very helpful and I would do the same thing all over again.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

erikrc10 said:


> First ride impressions:
> 
> I will start off by saying this was basically my first ride in 3 months. I left the country for a month at the beginning of October and on my second ride after I got back tacoed my front wheel. I then spent a long time trying to decide what I wanted to do, whether it be just get a new rim or buy a new wheelset. I finally decided on the wheelset.
> 
> So my question is, do carbon rims usually have a lower spoke tension than aluminium rims?


Higher spoke tension. I believe aluminum rims are mostly in the 100-120kgf, light bikes rims say they can go up to 180kgf.

Personally i would stick to the 100-120 range anyway


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Pepperagge said:


> Ok, I have been using the wider AM rims on my Rocky Mountain element for about half a year now. I got rather heavy rims (400g/each) and laced them 3-cross with 64 Sapim D-light spokes and alu nipples to Hope Evo 2 hubs (20mm front/142-12 rear). The building process went without any problems. I ride in pretty muddy and rooty beech and firtree forests. I got the rims mainly for the low weight and wider tire footprint. I run them tubeless like most people do, with Bontrager rimstrips. I use my homebrew tubeless solution and Maxxis tires.
> 
> Brian was very helpful and I would do the same thing all over again.


Good to hear it's working out for you.

I wanted to mention though that most people don't use bontrager rimstrips. There are a couple people on this thread who are real advocates but there's nothing to suggest that most people are using bontrager rimstrips. I would guess that most people are using stan's tape, gorilla tape, or anything else that people normally use with tubeless setups.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Brass nipples should last a lifetime being all but immune to corrosion.


Where do you get this stuff?
You speak like an authority while airballing (and spreading misinformation in the process). :crazy:


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Where do you get this stuff?
> You speak like an authority while airballing (and spreading misinformation in the process). :crazy:


Perhaps overstated but basically true. Brass is incredibly resistant to corrosion. That is precisely why it is used wherever corrosion is an issue. This includes most plumbing fixtures and until recently, a good percentage of exterior door hardware.

The photo depicts a brass fitting joined to a pipe made of a different metal, probably steel. The reason why even brass was able to corrode in this environment is due to a dielectric effect between dissimilar metals accelerated by the constant flow of new water through the pipe. This greatly accelerates the galvanic corrosion. If it was a closed water system, or the proper dielectric union had been used, there would be no corrosion. Also note that it is mostly the pipe that has corroded, not the brass fitting.

In general, I'll have to agree with the assertion that brass nipples are durable and are nearly immune to corrosion when used for bike spoke nipples. I can think of no other practical nipple material that would be more immune to corrosion.

Not being much of a weight weenie, I built up my LB rims with brass nipples. This avoids the more significant galvanic corrosion that occurs when steel, aluminum and water meet. If the rim ever cracks, it is likely that none of the nipples will be seized and that a new wheel can be quickly built using the same spokes and nipples. Just tape the rims together, transfer the spokes and nipples one by one, and retention. On the other hand, aluminum nipples can eventually seize solid around the spoke if ridden often in wet weather.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Perhaps overstated but basically true. Brass is incredibly resistant to corrosion. That is precisely why it is used wherever corrosion is an issue. This includes most plumbing fixtures and until recently, a good percentage of exterior door hardware.


Overstated is an understatement. 



dfiler said:


> The photo depicts a brass fitting joined to a pipe made of a different metal, probably steel. The reason why even brass was able to corrode in this environment is due to a dielectric effect between dissimilar metals accelerated by the constant flow of new water through the pipe. This greatly accelerates the galvanic corrosion. If it was a closed water system, or the proper dielectric union had been used, there would be no corrosion. Also note that it is mostly the pipe that has corroded, not the brass fitting.


Galvanic corrosion, which is specifically what is discussed in this and other threads related to nipples and carbon fiber, is a _*type*_ of corrosion. Brasses have galvanic indices just like any other metal and are susceptible to galvanic corrosion just like any other metal, which the picture shows. Brass is the cathode in that picture, so it corrodes at a slower rate than the anode. The other member of the couple determines the rate and which is which. Just because it will last in seawater doesn't mean it is impervious to all types of corrosion.
I work in the water supply industry and galvanic corrosion of brass is a HUGE problem that leads to elevated levels of lead in drinking water.



dfiler said:


> In general, I'll have to agree with the assertion that brass nipples are durable and are nearly immune to corrosion when used for bike spoke nipples. I can think of no other practical nipple material that would be more immune to corrosion.


Stainless steel, titanium and bronze would be 3 examples... not sure on practicality, but the availability is probably some indicator. 



dfiler said:


> Not being much of a weight weenie, I built up my LB rims with brass nipples. This avoids the more significant galvanic corrosion that occurs when steel, aluminum and water meet. If the rim ever cracks, it is likely that none of the nipples will be seized and that a new wheel can be quickly built using the same spokes and nipples. Just tape the rims together, transfer the spokes and nipples one by one, and retention. On the other hand, aluminum nipples can eventually seize solid around the spoke if ridden often in wet weather.


I thought the discussion was in regard to *galvanic corrosion with carbon fiber*.

No doubt brass is more resistant to corrosion than aluminum and galvanic corrosion with steel, but it is not impervious to galvanic corrosion.

Carbon fiber is extraordinarily resistant to corrosion unless you expose the fibers, like say by drilling spoke holes in it.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Stainless steel, titanium and bronze would be 3 examples... not sure on practicality, but the availability is probably some indicator.
> 
> I thought the discussion was in regard to *galvanic corrosion with carbon fiber*.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have gotten us off track with the generalized brass corrosion tangent. Sorry about that everyone.

In the context of this discussion, isn't it safe to say that brass nipples won't corrode to any meaningful degree?

With a carbon rim, as I understand it, brass nipples are even more long lasting than they are with aluminum rims. I think it is safe to say that brass nipples will pretty much never fail from corrosion, especially when used with a carbon rim.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have gotten us off track with the generalized brass corrosion tangent. Sorry about that everyone.


me too... sorry everyone. :blush:



dfiler said:


> In the context of this discussion, isn't it safe to say that brass nipples won't corrode to any meaningful degree?


Not sure.
The picture below shows galvanic corrosion between brass (plated brass, even) and an aluminum rim that would not have happened with an aluminum nipple.











dfiler said:


> With a carbon rim, as I understand it, brass nipples are even more long lasting than they are with aluminum rims. I think it is safe to say that brass nipples will pretty much never fail from corrosion, especially when used with a carbon rim.


Not necessarily true. It depends on the specific properties of each material, but speaking generally, there is a higher potential difference between carbon and brass than there is between brass and aluminum.
Also, which corrosion interface you're talking about makes a difference, because a brass nipple in direct contact with an aluminum rim will see FAR higher galvanic corrosion *with the aluminum rim* than an aluminum nipple. Galvanic corrosion is corrosion of "dissimilar" metals, after all. :thumbsup:


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I thought we were talking about if brass nipples would fail from corrosion. And if really trying to stay on topic, specifically if they will fail in carbon rims.

Brass nipples pretty much never fail from corrosion. They don't corrode enough to be significant. Granted an old aluminum rim can very occasionally pull through due to corrosion of the aluminum around the eyelet. Aluminum nipples solve that problem with the tradeoff of being weaker and binding to the steel spokes after a while. 

With carbon rims, that tradeoff has changed and weight seems to be the remaining advantage of aluminum nipples. Corrosion around the brass nipple is no longer a concern.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> I thought we were talking about if brass nipples would fail from corrosion. And if really trying to stay on topic, specifically if they will fail in carbon rims.


We are, but carbon and brass have a higher potential difference than the aluminum and brass in the picture and brass is the anode in that couple


dfiler said:


> Brass nipples pretty much never fail from corrosion. They don't corrode enough to be significant. Granted an old aluminum rim can very occasionally pull through due to corrosion of the aluminum around the eyelet. Aluminum nipples solve that problem with the tradeoff of being weaker and binding to the steel spokes after a while.


My point exactly. It's not necessarily black and white that if you use brass you don't have to worry about galvanic corrosion.



dfiler said:


> With carbon rims, that tradeoff has changed and weight seems to be the remaining advantage of aluminum nipples.


Maybe.


dfiler said:


> Corrosion around the brass nipple is no longer a concern.


Why?
I have found that you can purchase titanium nipples, which are no doubt better than brass when it comes to galvanic corrosion with carbon.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> ErikGBL said:
> 
> 
> > Straight pull MTB wheels are cross-patterned, not radial.
> ...


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Hi 

I've been looking to build up a "budget ww" set of these wheels up (wider version) and wonder if you guys know of anyone that ships A2Z components to the UK ?
Specifically one of these in RED
w w w dawt ebay.co.uk/itm/A2Z-XCF-15-MTB-Front-Hub-9-15mm-Convertible-Orange-32H-127g-/170783291469]A2Z XCF-15 MTB Front Hub,9/15mm,Convertible,Orange,32H,127g | eBay

The original seller *had* them back in June-July in RED but can't supply them in this colour now . All the UK sources I have tried can only supply in BLACK . Even the UK importer only lists BLACK :madman: 

Hope you guys can help with this and sorry for the thread derailment :blush:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

fire_strom said:


> Emphatic, but wrong.


lol
What percentage of straight pull MTB wheels are half-radial? And how does your one example that is only *half* radial mean that straight pull is like radial? ut:
I appreciate the hair splitting, but it doesn't address the point, which is that straight pull hubs are not magic and need tangential (cross-pattern) spokes to transmit torque like any other hub. :thumbsup:


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

meltingfeather said:


> fire_strom said:
> 
> 
> > lol
> ...


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## rvmdmechanic (Sep 18, 2008)

So this is probably covered on page 101, but...

Is anyone running the traditional / "narrow" LB rims tubeless? I have no real desire for the wider rim on a xc-race wheelset for a lightweight rider; the 20 grams/wheel is kinda worth it to me if there's no issues running tubeless.

I can't imagine a good reason why it wouldn't work, but just wondering any confirmation..


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

rvmdmechanic said:


> So this is probably covered on page 101, but...
> 
> Is anyone running the traditional / "narrow" LB rims tubeless? I have no real desire for the wider rim on a xc-race wheelset for a lightweight rider; the 20 grams/wheel is kinda worth it to me if there's no issues running tubeless.
> 
> I can't imagine a good reason why it wouldn't work, but just wondering any confirmation..


If weight is your goal, then consider the wider rim and a lighter tire. The buzz right now in road, cx and xc is that a bigger contact patch is faster.

Also, skinny rims with fat tires looks odd to me ever since I built up a wider set.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Don't waste money on the narrow rims. They weigh almost as much and effectively make the same weight tire much narrower which means in the overall scheme of things you must use a wider heavier tire. Also, because of the bracing effect of a wider rim the wider rims should be stiffer too.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

^ Can you please support your claims with facts and other context? They could use some clarity to avoid misunderstanding. At the least, you should detail under what specific situations your claims become true, if not true under all circumstances or all situations.

These two lines, in particular, seem to disturb me.

"The buzz right now in road, cx and xc is that a bigger contact patch is faster."

"[Narrow rims] weigh almost as much and effectively make the same weight tire much narrower which means in the overall scheme of things you must use a wider heavier tire."

Don't mean to single you two out, but I've seen this sort of talk before, but never seen any convincing support. You guys sound like you're knowledgeable enough to believe it, and preach it to others, so I'm opening up my eyes and ears hoping for a lesson here.

Don't want to assume things, but since this is the 29er forum, I'm thinking up of a scenario like this:

- Currently running as wide tires as can fit in the rear of my bike ("short" stays), which is a 29x2.2 Ikon, on a "skinny" rim (18mm internal and about 24mm external). Fatter tires risk rubbing the back of my seatpost on compressions.

Should I assume that I will be faster on a wide Chinese carbon rim with skinnier tires? My tires are about 590g claimed, and rims 385g claimed, and are adequately stiff and yet very compliant under me. What if I love the current performance of this tire, call it my fav tire of all time for my trails, and it only comes in 1 size?

Should I be exploring more variables, or should I be considering only the rim differences in a vacuum in a zero gravity environment to eliminate all these "unnecessary" real life variables, and seek to offer a "fair" comparison? Don't mean to make this discussion centered around my example, so feel free to use whatever scenario helps to explain how this wide rim thing works out, preferably with real life scenarios rather than theoretical ones, and what pros and cons there are to it. Please just assume I'm a newbie that doesn't know much about any of this subject.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*"Much narrower"?*



yourdaguy said:


> Don't waste money on the narrow rims. They weigh almost as much and effectively make the same weight tire much narrower which means in the overall scheme of things you must use a wider heavier tire. Also, because of the bracing effect of a wider rim the wider rims should be stiffer too.


 Do they really make the tire "much narrower"? My experience is that the effect of internal rim width on maximum tire width is a few millimeters. The bigger difference is in the sidewall profile. And unless you're running big tires to begin with, I doubt that even that would make any practical difference. FWIW YMMV EIEIO


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

Varaxis said:


> ^ Can you please support your claims with facts and other context? They could use some clarity to avoid misunderstanding. At the least, you should detail under what specific situations your claims become true, if not true under all circumstances or all situations.


Here is a cut and paste from here:

Wider tyres roll faster than narrower ones: Many riders have argued for years that narrower tyres - especially on the road - are faster and more efficient than wider ones when in fact, the opposite is true. According to Wheel Energy, the key to reducing rolling resistance is minimising the energy lost to casing deformation, not minimising how much tread is in contact with the ground.

All other factors being equal, wider casings exhibit less casing 'bulge' as a percentage of their cross-section and also have a shorter section of deflected sidewall. How big a difference are we talking about here? For an equivalent make and model of tyre, Wheel Energy claims the 25mm-wide size will measure five percent lower rolling resistance on average - the supposed average limit of human detection - than the more common 23mm-wide one.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Yeah but..*



red5jedi said:


> Here is a cut and paste from here:
> 
> Wider tyres roll faster than narrower ones: Many riders have argued for years that narrower tyres - especially on the road - are faster and more efficient than wider ones when in fact, the opposite is true. According to Wheel Energy, the key to reducing rolling resistance is minimising the energy lost to casing deformation, not minimising how much tread is in contact with the ground.
> 
> All other factors being equal, wider casings exhibit less casing 'bulge' as a percentage of their cross-section and also have a shorter section of deflected sidewall. How big a difference are we talking about here? For an equivalent make and model of tyre, Wheel Energy claims the 25mm-wide size will measure five percent lower rolling resistance on average - the supposed average limit of human detection - than the more common 23mm-wide one.


All very scientific, but in the case of tubeless MTB tires, one of the advantages is running a low pressure so that the tire will deflect and deform to absorb bumps. The supple, grippy ride is a product of the ready deformation of the tire.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

There has also been recent discussion of whether wider tires or wider rims are better, when effective tire width is held constant. Wider rims prevent (lateral) tire roll, helping to prevent burps and making aggressive cornering more predictable. While I can't claim to know if there are other tradeoffs, I personally prefer wider rims.

Here is one of the few articles i'm aware of on the subject:
*Tech Tuesday - Wider Rims Are Better and Why Tubeless Tires Burp Air*
Tech Tuesday


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Appendage and Varaxis; the wider rims do not actually hold the tires much wider unless you get way wider rims, but the overall volume of air in the tire increases by a significant amount. Consider the cross section and the bottom is now several MM wider and the side of the tire is now wider from several mm at the bottom tapering to zero at almost the top. With the rims in question I would guess around a 10-12% increase in overall air volume. This helps with traction and rolling resistance and ride quality. So Varaxis, you should still be able to use the Ikons with even better results.
There is much recent research on rolling resistance and on perfectly smooth roads at high speeds, the narrower thinner tire has a slight advantage (mostly an aero advantage). That is why the pro's who generally ride close to 30 mph use 21mm sew ups at over 150 psi. In all other surfaces and types of riding, up to some ridiculous point a wider tire with lower pressure has been found to roll with less resistance. I don't have links, but there is lots of recent research on the web that I have read. Heavily discount the stuff that is over 5 years old as much of it was done using less than identical tires, etc.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

The guy was more concerned about tubeless. It was said numerous times within the first 200 posts, that the narrow rims didn't seem to have as close to an UST profile as the wider rims. The wider Carbonal rims don't seem to have an UST profile either. Some suggested adding the weight of Bontrager Rhythm rim strip to give the narrow LB rim a better profile for going tubeless. Maybe he wants to know how reliable tubeless is with maybe Stan's tape, or something else that doesn't add extra grams of unnecessary weight.

Regarding the other topic: I have no problem believing that external rim width affects rigidity along certain axes. I have no problem believing that there may be a significant volume increase with more space in the rim cavity. I was expecting people to say the wider rim was better tubeless, due to the shape of the rim bed and tire bead seat area.

Here's my understanding of the subject:

A tire has a fixed "circumference", the measurement from the bead on one side across to the other. When mounted to a rim, the area of its cross section includes the rim bed as a side. Increasing the size of the rim bed, increases the area within the tire. A "wider" tire, has a bigger circumference, making it not only wider, but also taller, with much more volume.










A tire has very limited stretch, due the construction of its carcass, and only stretches at high pressure, significantly higher than riding pressure. You change the shape of the tire's profile to be flatter, than rounder. Tire manufacturers test their tires' performance assuming that you are mounting them to an industry standard width (~19mm). You alter their performance when you change their shape. To me, it looks like wider rims make tire more "car-like", which aren't designed to be leaned over.

Specialized Ground Control 26x2.3 on a Syntace W35 rim:
















Specialized Ground Control 26x2.3 on a Easton Haven rim

Can't really say anything for sure about width/height, but the roundness of the tire seems to be different, with the W35 (35mm ext, 28.4mm int) mounted tire displaying a flatter, less round profile. Just an exaggerated/contrasting visual comparison to help with speculation...

The area of a tire's contact patch is more related to the amount of pressure in the tire, than the width of the tire. Higher pressure and you have less contact patch area. Lower pressure and you have more. With a smaller contact patch, more weight is concentrated in it, creating more friction/force/weight within that area, but it can overwhelm the surface of the tire and/or ground, so spreading out the force may be better. There's also the matter of conforming, deflection, and bouncing, where knobs bending/moving, tires deforming, etc. absorb energy and are less responsive, where bouncing tires are more responsive, yet cannot offer control when not contacting the ground, and deflecting tires can be stressing to riders who do not anticipate it level-headedly. Theoretically, 30 psi in a 29x2.4 will have the same contact patch area as a 26x1.9 tire with 30 psi, though the shape of them will be different. They will feel vastly different though, as the 26x1.9 tire will feel squishy and the 29x2.4 will feel a bit hard. To get similar "feel", in terms of "squishiness/support" the smaller tire would need higher pressure and the bigger tire needs lower pressure.

Then comes the tubeless theories, which I'm not gonna address in this post, since I don't fully understand the mechanics behind. Here's an illustration from Syntace, promoting their new rims, including the W35, that Richard Cunningham has been interpreting, supporting the wide rim movement:










Cartoony illustrations such as this are usually biased to support the creator's view, so I can pretty much dismiss it. To me it looks like wide rim AND wider tire. They sure made the smaller tire/rim to look like the bad guy. :lol:


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I made my mark on that Tech Tuesday article over a year ago, haha. I even pulled up the more precise diagram again. I haven't been convinced yet.

yourdaguy, I wanna know how you came up with the 10-12% volume increase figure. If you increase the length of one side of a polygon, say a 4-sided one, by 10%, do you increase its area by 10%? I don't think you used anything like the Brahmagupta formula to get that, did you? Even if it's 1% area increase, do you think increasing it by 1% around full circle makes it 10%? Sorry, just teasing. The rest of your post was golden, and worth rep, if I didn't already give you some earlier.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanks for the rep by the way Varaxis and back at ya! One point I would add to post # 3023 is that most wider tires (say above 2.2) are actually designed to have the proper profile with a wider rims. Some of my wider tires (mostly WTB) even state on the casing they are only to be uses on rims from 22-26 or something like that.

In regards to post 3024 I would say that your diagram in post 3023 visually supports something in the range of 10-12%


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

*Original request.*



Appendage said:


> All very scientific, but in the case of tubeless MTB tires, one of the advantages is running a low pressure so that the tire will deflect and deform to absorb bumps. The supple, grippy ride is a product of the ready deformation of the tire.


Well now you are changing the request. The original request was to prove that a wider rim is faster that a narrow rim. The link I provided proves that, also proves that a 29er is faster than a 26er tire.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I don't buy that...*



red5jedi said:


> Here is a cut and paste from here:
> 
> Wider tyres roll faster than narrower ones: Many riders have argued for years that narrower tyres - especially on the road - are faster and more efficient than wider ones when in fact, the opposite is true. According to Wheel Energy, the key to reducing rolling resistance is minimising the energy lost to casing deformation, not minimising how much tread is in contact with the ground.
> 
> All other factors being equal, wider casings exhibit less casing 'bulge' as a percentage of their cross-section and also have a shorter section of deflected sidewall. How big a difference are we talking about here? For an equivalent make and model of tyre, Wheel Energy claims the 25mm-wide size will measure five percent lower rolling resistance on average - the supposed average limit of human detection - than the more common 23mm-wide one.


... for all conditions. There is a reason why the Prius comes with 175mm or 195mm narrow tires with a 65 aspect ratio, and not 17" rims, 235mm wide, with 45 aspect tires. A wider contact patch makes a bigger front that has to flex when it comes in contact with the ground.

Now, for dirt bicycle applications, a wider tire might have more rolling resistance, but you can also drop the pressure for better traction, and for better enveloping over rocks and roots and such. If the tire envelopes over something, it doesn't bounce the bike up in the air, or flex the suspension and lose energy that way. Lower pressure means more rolling resistance if the trail/road is perfectly smooth, but not if the trail is rough.

Roadies all use 23c tires, when 25 and 28c tires are available. Skinny tires roll with less resistance on a long skinny contact patch. The part of the tire that hits the ground first has a more narrow wave to flex.

For me, the wider rim was a no-brainer. 20g heavier than the skinny rims, but in my case the bigger tire, lower pressure, more stiffness, and extra durability will be more of an advantage to me than a measly 20 grams. Heck, I'm already dropping 70g per wheel with these things.


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## red5jedi (Feb 22, 2006)

*I stand corrected.*



pimpbot said:


> ... for all conditions. There is a reason why the Prius comes with 175mm or 195mm narrow tires with a 65 aspect ratio, and not 17" rims, 235mm wide, with 45 aspect tires. A wider contact patch makes a bigger front that has to flex when it comes in contact with the ground.
> 
> Now, for dirt bicycle applications, a wider tire might have more rolling resistance, but you can also drop the pressure for better traction, and for better enveloping over rocks and roots and such. If the tire envelopes over something, it doesn't bounce the bike up in the air, or flex the suspension and lose energy that way. Lower pressure means more rolling resistance if the trail/road is perfectly smooth, but not if the trail is rough.
> 
> ...


 You sound sooooo much more scientific that that article. All that testing they have done must be wrong - you should go tell them .


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

Let's keep this thread about 29er chinese carbon rims.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> Roadies all use 23c tires, when 25 and 28c tires are available. Skinny tires roll with less resistance on a long skinny contact patch.


No they don't.
Roadies use narrow tires because they are lighter and more aerodynamic, which are also considerations (for them).


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

I think I'm missing something here. I get that if you have a wider rim, you have a bigger number at the bottom of the area equation. And everyone's saying that with the wider rim, you spread the sides wider, too, which I get. But if you're spreading the base of the tire into the rim hook and, as Varaxis notes, a tire has very limited stretch, it would seem the height of the tire would have to decrease by a proportional amount and the volume of the tire would remain roughly the same.

I also don't get how the contact patch of a 26x1.9 tire is the same as a 29x2.4? It seems that the larger diameter tire will have a longer patch and the wider tire will have, well, a wider patch.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You are adding the extra width of the wider rim to the overall size of the circle that is the circumference around the tire laterally. Look at post 3023 Varaxis has shown that as you increase the length across the bottom (the rim width in this case) the top of the tire is almost exactly the same place until you get wider than the casing width of the tire and then it starts down. This is why if you have the same tire on a different width rim, you don't have to re calibrate your speedo because the overall height of the tire doesn't change.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The contact patch argument is based on the fact that the size of the contact patch is relative to the inflation pressure and the weight. I am not sure I totally agree that these 2 mentioned would be the exact same size because there are other factors, but the basic premise is that if you have 30 psi and are supporting 90 lbs the area will equal the pounds divided by the psi. In other words if you have 90 lbs and 30 psi the contact patch will equal 3 square inches because the tire will support 30 lbs of weight per square inch. There are other factors at play here including the fact that the stiffness of the sidewall will support some of the weight, etc.


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## simpy16 (Apr 18, 2012)

I was able to get one of my 29 chinese carbon rims built up. They are LB rims and I decided to go the Bonty rim strip route because they seemed to work well on my RXL rims when I had them. 

I bought the Rhythm model and got the first one on my rim. It seated down well but I noticed one side of the rim the strip will sit under the bead and probably allow for a tire to seat properly but the other side sticks out, not enough to feel it but more it just doesn't look like it will allow the tire to seat on it. 

Is there a chance that I have it on backwards? Any ideas on how to get it to work or should I look at a different method? I have never tried Stans before but I did use gorilla tape on my ENVEs and they seemed to work.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

skiahh said:


> I think I'm missing something here. I get that if you have a wider rim, you have a bigger number at the bottom of the area equation. And everyone's saying that with the wider rim, you spread the sides wider, too, which I get. But if you're spreading the base of the tire into the rim hook and, as Varaxis notes, a tire has very limited stretch, it would seem the height of the tire would have to decrease by a proportional amount and the volume of the tire would remain roughly the same.
> 
> I also don't get how the contact patch of a 26x1.9 tire is the same as a 29x2.4? It seems that the larger diameter tire will have a longer patch and the wider tire will have, well, a wider patch.


Look at the graphs, equations & explanations in the thread I linked. :thumbsup:


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

simpy16 said:


> I was able to get one of my 29 chinese carbon rims built up. They are LB rims and I decided to go the Bonty rim strip route because they seemed to work well on my RXL rims when I had them.
> 
> I bought the Rhythm model and got the first one on my rim. It seated down well but I noticed one side of the rim the strip will sit under the bead and probably allow for a tire to seat properly but the other side sticks out, not enough to feel it but more it just doesn't look like it will allow the tire to seat on it.
> 
> ...


I saw a Stan's video,a while back when he mounted a rubber strip on a rim and then used the tire lever to push the strip over a little.
So I do that as shown by the Stan's video, then I run the plastic lever just under the bead hook to make sure the rhythm strip is down below the bead hook


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> I saw a Stan's video,a while back when he mounted a rubber strip on a rim and then used the tire lever to push the strip over a little.
> So I do that as shown by the Stan's video, then I run the plastic lever just under the bead hook to make sure the rhythm strip is down below the bead hook


Yup. G-Ted had a nice tip when the strips came out to help with the install. His tip was to insert a screwdriver in the valve stem hole of the strip and the rim to hold that portion of the strip in place while you work your way around the rim to get the strip snugly in place and centered all around the rim. Works like a charm.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Guys, how would you calculate ERD for this rim? I know someone most probably did it in this thread already, but I'm not sure if it was for this exact rim (chinese carbon, 2012).

The thing that confuses me is - I want to use use the DT Swiss Standard Alu Nipples, but I can't find the height of the nipple head specified anywhere. Which is weird, because that's how ERD is supposed to be calculated, as far as I've seen (2nd attached pic).

So I'm guessing 2mm for the nipple head height, but it's just a guess, and I'm not sure if it's better to guess less or more.

So the ERD I calculated according to the schema pic is:
20.50 - 3.60 - 2.0 = 14.9 * 2 = 29.8
632 - 29.8 = *602.2*

Then the last pic is output from the DT Swiss calc (the hub data are taken from the correct DT Swiss hubs, but the calc later insisted on generic type, but the numbers stayed in).


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

ypocat said:


> Guys, how would you calculate ERD for this rim? I know someone most probably did it in this thread already, but I'm not sure if it was for this exact rim (chinese carbon, 2012).
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I measured the ERD. Form the bottom of the slot in the nipple I came up with 606mm. Measured in several spots, both rims. No variance.
> ...


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

reamer41 said:


> ypocat said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, how would you calculate ERD for this rim? I know someone most probably did it in this thread already, but I'm not sure if it was for this exact rim (chinese carbon, 2012).
> ...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ypocat said:


> Guys, how would you calculate ERD for this rim? I know someone most probably did it in this thread already, but I'm not sure if it was for this exact rim (chinese carbon, 2012).


ERD is not calculated, it's measured. My rims were 603mm.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

ypocat, I agree with your calcs. However, I agree with meltingfeather that ERD should be measured. Lots of instructions online. I believe that ERD will vary based upon the weight of the build, as I believe that the extra weight comes from thickness in that bottom section (primarily).


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

My rims were 603 but they were at the light end of the weight range.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

I just got a reply from Nancy regarding spoke tension, as I could not remember what was posted on this forum. I will paraphrase:

Nancy: 
Tension for "transportation riders" (Comfortability) 80-90kgf or exercise on a regular basis.
Tension for "enthusiast riders" (Balance) 100-110 kgf are good for people with enjoyful and training purposes.
Tension for "professional rider" (Performance) 120-130 kgf are charged for riders who are experienced in riding or competition.

I just got my new rims, 399g and 379g. I am lacing to CK hubs. Plan to use Sapim CX Ray spokes with alloy nips. Considering 3x on high tension sides, and 2x on low tensions side. CK states max of 120 kgf, and wants all hubs laced 3x. I read somewhere that CX Ray spokes benefit from a higher tension. What tension do you guys think I should shoot for? My weight is 160 lbs, mostly cross country type riding, minor jumping, age 62. Wheels will go on a Tallboy.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

You should go 2x on HIGH tension and 3x on low tension. This is recommended by the best builders I know.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

hssp said:


> You should go 2x on HIGH tension and 3x on low tension. This is recommended by the best builders I know.


Interesting. Any reason given for this set up?

I've always just done 3x both sides. Lazy, I guess. But curious!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

kindacreeky said:


> I just got a reply from Nancy regarding spoke tension, as I could not remember what was posted on this forum. I will paraphrase:
> 
> Nancy:
> Tension for "transportation riders" (Comfortability) 80-90kgf or exercise on a regular basis.
> ...


Different tensions for different uses is whack. :crazy:
110kgf is plenty.



kindacreeky said:


> I just got my new rims, 399g and 379g. I am lacing to CK hubs. Plan to use Sapim CX Ray spokes with alloy nips. Considering 3x on high tension sides, and 2x on low tensions side.


Any pattern mixing is jut going to be for fun/interest. You're not going to realize any benefit from it.


kindacreeky said:


> CK states max of 120 kgf, and wants all hubs laced 3x. I read somewhere that CX Ray spokes benefit from a higher tension. What tension do you guys think I should shoot for? My weight is 160 lbs, mostly cross country type riding, minor jumping, age 62. Wheels will go on a Tallboy.


Spokes don't benefit from different tension levels. You build wheels to what the rim mfr says unless what they say is ridiculous (see above). In that case you build 32-spoke wheels to 110kgf. :thumbsup:


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

meltinghfeather is right. I would build them up 3X and shoot for 110 kgf on the high tension side front and rear. 3X is stronger than 2X and I don't think you can do 4X with 32 holes and since the drilling is straight on these rims even if you could do 4X it would put the nipples at the wrong angle since they are on the edge at 3X.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

hssp said:


> You should go 2x on HIGH tension and 3x on low tension. This is recommended by the best builders I know.


Appreciate the advice. This is my first wheel build, and I am just learning about this science. I am an engineer, and am trying to understand the physics of this. With a 2X pattern, the spoke pulls more outward on the hub flange. With the 3X, the pull is more tangential. I can see why CK would specify the 3X only pattern, as that would stress the hub flange less (more meat in hub when pulling tangential than more straight out). Can anyone explain why it would be preferable to put the 2x on the Drive side of the rear?

Also, I have read in this forum that 2x gives a more rigid build. Is this true? On my Tallboy, with FS, I am mainly interested in improved lateral rigidity and more accurate tracking out of this wheel, but of course want to keep weight down too.

Last night, I checked some wheels built for me by Dave's Wheels at Speedreams.com. He built a 26er wheel for my Blur and he put 2x on the low tension sides front and rear; and 3x on the high tension side. So I was going by that example.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Different tensions for different uses is whack. :crazy:
> 110kgf is plenty.
> 
> Any pattern mixing is jut going to be for fun/interest. You're not going to realize any benefit from it.
> ...


Appreciate the comments.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

kindacreeky said:


> Appreciate the advice. This is my first wheel build, and I am just learning about this science. I am an engineer, and am trying to understand the physics of this. With a 2X pattern, the spoke pulls more outward on the hub flange. With the 3X, the pull is more tangential. I can see why CK would specify the 3X only pattern, as that would stress the hub flange less (more meat in hub when pulling tangential than more straight out). Can anyone explain why it would be preferable to put the 2x on the Drive side of the rear?


I don't think it would meaningfully affect the performance. You will shave a handful of grams with the shorter spokes and very very slightly increase the bracing angle on that side. A 2x wheel is very very slightly more radially and laterally rigid than a 3X wheel. I don't know of anyone having looked at mixed pattern wheels.



kindacreeky said:


> Also, I have read in this forum that 2x gives a more rigid build. Is this true? On my Tallboy, with FS, I am mainly interested in improved lateral rigidity and more accurate tracking out of this wheel, but of course want to keep weight down too.
> 
> Last night, I checked some wheels built for me by Dave's Wheels at Speedreams.com. He built a 26er wheel for my Blur and he put 2x on the low tension sides front and rear; and 3x on the high tension side. So I was going by that example.


3x all around is probably the best bet. Anything else will be just for fun and not meaningfully affect performance.
I did 3x-1x heads out on my SS front wheel just for fun.


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## Trackdawson (Apr 22, 2011)

*Shipping time*

Hello all, I bought some LB rims finally! I have all my components and I'm just waiting for the rims to be made / shipped. For those that have received their rims I the last week or so when did you place your order? I ordered 12k matte rims on December 31. I am lacing them to DT 350 hubs with Sapim Laser spokes 3x, fwiw. I am so freaking excited!


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

Trackdawson said:


> Hello all, I bought some LB rims finally! I have all my components and I'm just waiting for the rims to be made / shipped. For those that have received their rims I the last week or so when did you place your order? I ordered 12k matte rims on December 31. I am lacing them to DT 350 hubs with Sapim Laser spokes 3x, fwiw. I am so freaking excited!


I received mine on Jan. 8. I ordered on Dec. 17. They responded on Dec. 18. So about 3 weeks. Decent, from half way around the world.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

According to Jobst Brandt 3x is stronger than 2x because of more bracing of the spokes. In my estimation it would be stiffer too because of more bracing by the crosses.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> According to Jobst Brandt 3x is stronger than 2x because of more bracing of the spokes. In my estimation it would be stiffer too because of more bracing by the crosses.


Appreciate all the advice on this discussion. I decided to go with 3x all around.

Anybody have problems with using alloy nipples instead of brass? Any special procedures or cautions? I have read the recommendations on lubing the nipple seat against the carbon rim.

Any special spoke thread lube or compound that you guys would advise me using? I read Sheldon Brown cautioned to not use lube on the low tension side as might tend to back off. Do I need to go with loc-tite on that side?


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

reamer41 said:


> I measured the ERD. Form the *bottom of the slot in the nipple* I came up with 606mm. Measured in several spots, both rims. No variance.


This is my very first wheelbuild so I don't yet have nipples laying around here - what length would this add (per side) to the ERD that I will measure from the rim nipple hole's inner edge (the edge which touches the nipple head)?

I'm guessing 2mm, but since the nipple has a slot, it's probably less. Weird that DT Swiss doesn't publish this, but then, one should just get the nipple and measure it themselves.

I'm going to measure the ERD now, will report back later.

Thanks for all the suggestion guys, very valuable.

EDIT: ah, did some googling and looks like to obtain the accurate ERD, I definitely need 2 nipples and 2 spokes, or at least those 2 nipples and a wire, or something like that. So I'll get the nipples/spokes first I think. (Found also this thing but huh, not sure if that's really needed.)


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## Trackdawson (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks for the reply about the shipping time. Where in TN are you? I'm down in Oxford MS. As far as lubing the nipple seats, I am planning on using Dumond liquid grease. I am hoping the plasticizers in the grease can allow a better lubrication as well as a barrier to all that galvanic corrosion between my alu nipps and cf rim  Any thoughts for or against would be welcome.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Lube all the nipples both where they contact the rim and lube the spoke threads. Most people just dip all the spokes before they start. Alloy nipples are fine, In 5 years or so they might start to crack but by then you might want to rebuild it with new nipples. Brass nipples weigh something like 3 times a much but basically last forever. ERD is measured using a spoke and nipples, but you don't subtract for the nipple length when calculating spoke length. This is because if you did everything (calculations) correctly the end of the spoke will be in or right at the base of the nipple.


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

kindacreeky said:


> CK states max of 120 kgf, and wants all hubs laced 3x.


Interesting that CK says that, since Enve rims are molded to be 2X and are available with CK hubs. I'm curious because I want to build up a set of SS wheels with CK hubs and would rather lace them 2X to keep the spoke angle at the rim from being too acute.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> In my estimation it would be stiffer too because of more bracing by the crosses.


The lower the cross pattern, the stiffer the wheel radially & laterally. This has been shown both by FEA and direct measurements.
Torsionally the opposite is true.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

Trackdawson said:


> Thanks for the reply about the shipping time. Where in TN are you? I'm down in Oxford MS. As far as lubing the nipple seats, I am planning on using Dumond liquid grease. I am hoping the plasticizers in the grease can allow a better lubrication as well as a barrier to all that galvanic corrosion between my alu nipps and cf rim  Any thoughts for or against would be welcome.


located in Nashville area.

OK, now I am wondering about corrosion potential against carbon rim (with alloy nips). Did not consider that. I would have thought that the epoxy resin would encapsulate the carbon so well that there would just not be enough to cause a reaction. Any experience out there?


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

kindacreeky said:


> located in Nashville area.
> 
> OK, now I am wondering about corrosion potential against carbon rim (with alloy nips). Did not consider that. I would have thought that the epoxy resin would encapsulate the carbon so well that there would just not be enough to cause a reaction. Any experience out there?


Since there is not one single report on this forum that I have seen of an issue related to corrosion using aluminum nipples with carbon rims with hundreds of people using that combo on this forum alone, I don't think it is concern. One guy theorized that it is a major issue, but not one real world report that I could find supports it....so I am building with aluminum.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Haymarket said:


> Since there is not one single report on this forum that I have seen of an issue related to corrosion using aluminum nipples with carbon rims with hundreds of people using that combo on this forum alone, I don't think it is concern. One guy theorized that it is a major issue, but not one real world report that I could find supports it....so I am building with aluminum.


Here is my summary of the nipple corrosion posts:

Steel spokes + brass nipples + aluminum rims = aluminum rims corrode

Steel spokes + aluminum nipples + aluminum rims = aluminum nipples corrode

Steel spokes + brass nipples + carbon rims = virtually nothing corrodes

Steel spokes + aluminum nipples + carbon rims = aluminum nipples corrode

Aluminum nipples became popular because (among other reasons) they absorbed the corrosion instead of the rim. Rims are costly to replace.

With carbon rims, the only benefit of aluminum nipples is weight as there is no reason to protect the rim from corrosion.

It is my opinion that if you ride it wet conditions you should use brass nipples with carbon rims.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

Adroit Rider said:


> Here is my summary of the nipple corrosion posts:
> 
> Steel spokes + brass nipples + aluminum rims = aluminum rims corrode
> 
> ...


Has anybody on here had an issue with corrosion in building carbon rims with aluminum nipples? I know what you say and am sure it is true, but is there a real world effect here? Lots and lots of rims built that way, and I just hadn't seen any issues reported from that. Have there been any?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Haymarket said:


> Has anybody on here had an issue with corrosion in building carbon rims with aluminum nipples? I know what you say and am sure it is true, but is there a real world effect here? Lots and lots of rims built that way, and I just hadn't seen any issues reported from that. Have there been any?


No, the corrosion has nothing to do with the rims but everything to do with the nipples and spokes.

Here is your worst case scenario:

Many miles from now your spokes detention and weaken. One spoke breaks while on a 50 mile epic and your wheel goes out of true. You try and fix the wobble by adjusting the tension on surrounding spokes but the nipples have corroded and will not turn. You ride the wobbly wheel back home and have a new spoke installed or you have the hub and possibly rim rebuilt.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Adroit Rider said:


> No, the corrosion has nothing to do with the rims but everything to do with the nipples and spokes.
> 
> Here is your worst case scenario:
> 
> Many miles from now your spokes detention and weaken. One spoke breaks while on a 50 mile epic and your wheel goes out of true. You try and fix the wobble by adjusting the tension on surrounding spokes but the nipples have corroded and will not turn. You ride the wobbly wheel back home and have a new spoke installed or you have the hub and possibly rim rebuilt.


Actually, if you're talking about the rim/nipple interface (we are) the spokes are irrelevant.
I think his point is still valid.
Are there any *actual* reports/experiences/photos of corrosion problems?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

No actual reports I am aware of, but galvanic corrosion strength between carbon rims and aluminum nipples would be about 2 orders of magnitude greater than aluminum rims and nipples. Also, carbon rims are stiffer than aluminum and the nipples would tend to flex more in carbon rims and aluminum is subject to stress cracks from flexing.
I built all my carbon wheels with aluminum nipples, but I fully expect to have some issues and probably have to rebuild with new nipples 5 or more years down the road. If it becomes a problem, I will rebuild with brass nipples. I just don't see aluminum nipples lasting forever between stainless spokes and carbon rims. And the idea of the aluminum nipples corroding to the stainless spokes is real I have seen this on older aluminum rim nipple combinations with stainless spokes. When you try to turn the nipple, it just breaks off and kind of crumbles. The wheels in question were 5 year old Stans with probably over 6000 dirt (and some winter street rides in Baltimore) miles and lots of washings.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

kindacreeky said:


> Last night, I checked some wheels built for me by Dave's Wheels at Speedreams.com. He built a 26er wheel for my Blur and he put 2x on the low tension sides front and rear; and 3x on the high tension side. So I was going by that example.


I checked again this morning. The Dave's Wheels only uses the 2x on the drive side of the front. The rear uses 3x both sides. Sorry for mistake.


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## wetpaint (Sep 7, 2009)

Haymarket said:


> Has anybody on here had an issue with corrosion in building carbon rims with aluminum nipples? I know what you say and am sure it is true, but is there a real world effect here? Lots and lots of rims built that way, and I just hadn't seen any issues reported from that. Have there been any?


I haven't. On my road bike, I have a set of carbon wheels with aluminum nipples that have been used daily for 5 years. I ride them in the rain, salt, grime, etc. There is ZERO corrosion.

I have another set of carbon tubulars that have been used daily for 3 years, again, zero corrosion.

Most of the people I ride with have carbon wheels I haven't heard or seen a single instance of corrosion. IMO, it's a non issue


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> No actual reports I am aware of, but galvanic corrosion strength between carbon rims and aluminum nipples would be about 2 orders of magnitude greater than aluminum rims and nipples.


what do you mean by "strength?"
do you mean current density?
where'd you come up with "2 orders of magnitude," which is ~100x?
run through the math for me, assuming the following galvanic potentials:
graphite - (+)0.3V
aluminum alloy - (-)0.9V
brass - (-)0.4V



yourdaguy said:


> Also, carbon rims are stiffer than aluminum and the nipples would tend to flex more in carbon rims and aluminum is subject to stress cracks from flexing.


and if a leprechaun bangs a unicorn under a blue moon it will rain gold. so?



yourdaguy said:


> I built all my carbon wheels with aluminum nipples, but I fully expect to have some issues and probably have to rebuild with new nipples 5 or more years down the road. If it becomes a problem, I will rebuild with brass nipples. I just don't see aluminum nipples lasting forever between stainless spokes and carbon rims. And the idea of the aluminum nipples corroding to the stainless spokes is real I have seen this on older aluminum rim nipple combinations with stainless spokes. When you try to turn the nipple, it just breaks off and kind of crumbles. The wheels in question were 5 year old Stans with probably over 6000 dirt (and some winter street rides in Baltimore) miles and lots of washings.


i just want to see some photos of this doomed combination actually going to hell. i'll keep an eye on my wheels and post macro photos every once in a while.


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## whez (Oct 8, 2007)

does anyone have an opinion about d-bike wheels they seem the same as Light Bikes but maybe different spokes.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

https://www.sae.org/automag/material/08-2006/1-114-8-42.pdf

Read the Boeing article on page 44 above. It explains the basic problem of galvanic corrosion in wet environments and the fact that Boeing is limiting the use of aluminum in the vicinity of carbon.

This is a picture of my Sran's Arch front that came on my 2008 Jet9 so I did not build this wheel. The nipples basically locked to the spokes after many hard miles. When I tried to true it the nipple broke and I had to twist so hard that the wrench started to round the flats too. This corrosion would have been because of the stainless spokes in the aluminum nipples. Adding carbon rims should speed up the process. I have to assume that the builder did not use much or enough spoke prep because this should not happen in 5 years on these wheels but I could see it happening in 5 years on a wheel with carbon rims even if it was properly built.









I don't know where you got your galvanic factors from, but this chart is in the range I have heard in the past even though it is from a boatbuilders site and is in saltwater exposure conditions. I could probably google longer and find another one from another source. I generally ride salty roads in the winter around here so these numbers would be close for 3 months of the year in the midwest. Also, you will notice that Zinc which is the most commonly use sacrificial metal anode is the next thing past aluminum in that direction. So Aluminum is the 2nd best sacrificial anode on the list. By strength, I am referring to the galvanic potential for corrosion between 2 parts. The potential between 2 aluminum parts is almost zero since they have almost the same number. The potential between aluminum and Carbon Fiber is around 2 orders of magnitude as great.

https://www.boatdesign.net/forums/a...structures-problems-carbon-ally-corrosion.jpg

I am not against aluminum nipples; all my wheels have them. I am just saying that they might no be the ultimate in reliability when positioned between stainless spokes and carbon rims. I am just pointing this out to people that are asking about it.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

For those wondering the current wait time from Light Bicycle, I ordered a set of Wide UD Matte rims from them on December 20th. Brian confirmed my address the same day and said they'd have to produce the rims in 7-10 days. He informed me that the shipping was 4-5 days. They ended up shipping on January 2nd, and I received 5 days later in PA. Overall happy with the communication and delivery of the rims. 

I had them built up with Sapim spokes, aluminum nips, and nipple washers. The wheel builder (Luke Shirk, from Shirks Bikes) recommended washers on the carbon rims. I swapped out the rims from my Tallboy LTc, so using DT350 rear hub and WTB front. I sealed them with one inch Gorilla tape. The Maxxis Ardent (non tubeless style) seated quickly with compressor. Looking forward to maiden voyage tomorrow at French Creek.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

yourdaguy said:


> https://www.sae.org/automag/material/08-2006/1-114-8-42.pdf
> 
> Read the Boeing article on page 44 above. It explains the basic problem of galvanic corrosion in wet environments and the fact that Boeing is limiting the use of aluminum in the vicinity of carbon.
> 
> ...


An arch is aluminum, so I assume there is no example of an issue with aluminum nipples made worse because they were used with a carbon rim. In theory, you argue it is worse, but not one real example is available to indicate a negative affect, and the sample size has gotten fairly large. I don't think anyone is questioning the inherent positives or negatives of aluminum nipples, just questioing whether it is worse to use them with carbon rims. There seem to be no real examples available to support the theory that it is any type of an issue, beyond the weaknesses of aluminum nipples in general.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> Read the Boeing article on page 44 above. It explains the basic problem of galvanic corrosion in wet environments and the fact that Boeing is limiting the use of aluminum in the vicinity of carbon.


This is not a "Boeing" article. Its a very general statement (buried within an article about the use of titanium in coil springs) taken from an Automotive supplier president about materials used in the Dreamliner. Purely anecdotal and not even completely accurate.

Explain how using an aluminum nipple in a carbon rim is going to speed up corrosion between the nipple and spoke????:madman:


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## superkyle38 (Dec 12, 2012)

eonicks said:


> For those wondering the current wait time from Light Bicycle, I ordered a set of Wide UD Matte rims from them on December 20th. Brian confirmed my address the same day and said they'd have to produce the rims in 7-10 day times. He informed me that the shipping was 4-5 days. They ended up shipping on January 2nd, and I received 5 days later in PA. Overall happy with the communication and delivery of the rims.
> 
> I had them built up with Sapim spokes, aluminum nips, and nipple washers. The wheel builder (Luke Shirk, from Shirks Bikes) recommended washers on the carbon rims. I swapped out the rims from my Tallboy LTc, so using DT350 rear hub and WTB front. I sealed them with one inch Gorilla tape. The Maxxis Ardent (non tubeless style) seated quickly with compressor. Looking forward to maiden voyage tomorrow at French Creek.


I ordered the same in 3K on the 20th and they haven't shipped yet! Communication has been good though.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> I am just pointing this out to people that are asking about it.


You are speaking in specific terms like you understand what you are talking about when it doesn't seem like you do. What is someone supposed to do with "two orders of magnitude?" It's not helpful or even informative, since it is ultimately just your opinions and not based in understanding of the material.
Like the fact that you "estimate" that 3x wheels are stiffer than radial.
:nonod:
Show me pictures of the carbon-aluminum carnage.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

ktm520: I know it is not a "Boeing article" the blue section about Boeing was the pertinent part.

The reason carbon would be worse than aluminum is because carbon is a much stronger cathode.

Well none of my carbon wheels are 5 years old so I have no pictures for you. If you choose not to believe in galvanic corrosion that is your choice. Some people don't believe the earth is getting warmer either and that is their choice.

In the original post that started this debate #3061 the poster asked if there was a potential problem with aluminum nipples corroding because of contact with carbon rims. Based on the writings of the aircraft industry and the boat building industry there are valid concerns. I don't have to spend my time finding pictures of failures. I am confident enough to build with aluminum nipples and know that if they fail I can easily fix the problem, but the overall issue is valid.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> If you choose not to believe in galvanic corrosion that is your choice.


The question is not whether anyone "believes in" a well documented chemical process, but whether that process actually presents any sort of problem that requires a specific course of action (_e.g._, using brass nipples).
If the issue is "valid," why are aluminum interfaces with carbon stems, seatposts, frames, forks, cranks, handlebars, bottle cages, _etc_. not falling apart? I recently rebuilt an older (>5 years) Powertap into a new wheel for a customer. Carbon-aluminum hub shell. Nada. I was at a buddy's house tonight who still rides a ~'92 Spesh Epic road bike with carbon tubes and aluminum lugs. How is it possible?!? :crazy:


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

No the question was (see original post #3061) whether this a potential problem. I don't know the specifics of your friend's situation. Does he live in the snow belt, does he ride in the rain, etc. The answer to the original question is not "let's stick our head in the sand since I have never seen it, show me that it has ever happened" but that the potential exists.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Engineers figured out how to use carbon and aluminum together well before carbon was used in bikes. 

In the early 1970’s, Lockheed was developing an upper stage cone
for the C4 Trident using composite fiber cloth and aluminum
honeycomb. The Navy required a 30 day salt spray test. Upon
retrieval from the test chamber, nearly all the aluminum honeycomb
was gone. This news spread quickly throughout the composites
industry, and full recognition is made that a dielectric barrier is
required between the composite laminate and mating metal structure.
The generally accepted practice is to use a layer of fiberglass in the
layup. Additional common methods include a Titanium shim, an
adhesive layer, and non-metallic high temperature primers.
1
“Environmental Effect on Epoxy Matrix Composites”, G. S. Springer, ASTM STP 674, 1978, pp 291-
312.
2
“Galvanic Corrosion between Non-Metallic Composites and Metals”, F. Bellucci, Corrosion, Vol


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I think folks forget....*



meltingfeather said:


> The question is not whether anyone "believes in" a well documented chemical process, but whether that process actually presents any sort of problem that requires a specific course of action (_e.g._, using brass nipples).
> If the issue is "valid," why are aluminum interfaces with carbon stems, seatposts, frames, forks, cranks, handlebars, bottle cages, _etc_. not falling apart? I recently rebuilt an older (>5 years) Powertap into a new wheel for a customer. Carbon-aluminum hub shell. Nada. I was at a buddy's house tonight who still rides a ~'92 Spesh Epic road bike with carbon tubes and aluminum lugs. How is it possible?!? :crazy:


... that when you pick up your carbon fiber whatever part, you're not touching carbon. You're touching the epoxy outer layer.

I guess the concern (and only a concern, more of an irrational worry) is that the spoke holes on these rims are drilled (not formed) in the carbon, and likely not sealed. Maybe they are worried about the carbon fiber little hairs touching the alu or nickel plated brass nipples, and causing the corrosion.

But who cares?

Geez, folks! These are $160 rims, not $1000 rims. Thank your lucky stars that such awesome technology with huge real-world benefit is within reach of those who don't light their cuban cigars with $100 bills. If you have to change out nipples, or maybe even spokes in 3-5 years, what's the big deal? What, you're complaining about ruining $5 worth of nipples, and an hour of shop time to refresh your wheels every 5 years? For serious? :crazy::crazy::crazy:

I mean, I've had loads of alu nipple failures over the years, but I figure that was due to my lack of pro-level wheel building skills (I do just about all of my own wheels), my sloppy riding, and my 210 pound ass. So, I gave up on saving the extra 10 grams per wheel and went back to brass. My NancyLightWide carbon wheels are still 70 grams lighter than I was running before, stiffer, and stronger. I'm not complaining one bit. When I build wheels, I put some TiPrep anti-seize on the threads so they won't get stuck, not that I had issues with stuck nipples anyway... but I think it makes the tensioning go smoother. If for some odd reason I find that I have to change out my nipples every few years, I'm still way more than happy.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

We should be skeptical theoretical quantification of corrosion in bicycle wheels. There are tons of factors which make perfect modeling impossible. For example, brass nipples are painted. Carbon rims aren't pure carbon. Wheels flex differently and apply friction differently. Etc. 

In the real world, nipple corrosion doesn't appear to be an issue with carbon wheels. If wishing to get numerical about this analysis, the thing to do is figure out why the simplified model isn't applicable. But I don't think that is worthwhile. It is such a non-factor that other wheel attributes should take precedence when making any decision.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks to the individual who brought up this corrosion topic.  

Paranoia? Almost 100 posts later, my impression of the worst case scenario, that has been experienced, seems to be rather weak and not worth worrying about.

What's the next topic, how to wash carbon rims and what happens when overspray/drip from cleaning/lubing other parts of the bike affects the rims?


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Can someone who has bought the complete wheelsets comment if the wheels come trued?


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Yes the wheels do come true. Though mine had relatively low spoke tension so I had to get that fixed anyways. They should come straight as can be though, mine did at least.

On another note, how worried should I be about gouges in the rims? After 3 rides in pretty rocky terrain I've already got a few scrapes from rocks on both the front and rear rim. At what point should I be concerned?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Varaxis said:


> What's the next topic, how to wash carbon rims and what happens when overspray/drip from cleaning/lubing other parts of the bike affects the rims?


How's about we combine the two topics? 

Cheap Chinese carbon rim fail? - Mtbr Forums

Yeah, it's salt water...but I'd argue any electrolyte. Do you guys recall the issue SpecialED had w/ their frames and sweat dripped on the top tube infiltrating the alum lugs bonded to carbon tubes? Sweat, or salt water = an alkaline liquid...ever test soapy water's pH?


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## slsl123 (Sep 15, 2004)

Thinking about pulling the trigger on a pair of these. The galvanic corrosion doesn't worry me as much as the folks who have reported nipples pulling through the rim. Does Light Bicycle recommend nipple washers to prevent this?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I think those were actual defective rims. I have 2 sets tensioned very high and they hardly creak when you are stress relieving them.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Well when I save up the funds for a pair of these Nancy wide carbon rims . I'm gonna build them up myself 32 hole 3x twisted WITH red alu nipples , silver DT rev spokes and a pair of 2nd hand ebay red hope pro II's . I weigh 250+ so for the money if they don't splinter into a million pieces or fizz into a steaming pile of galvanic ash within the first ride I for one will be more than happy .

I realise for some people the $500+ investment in these wheels is a significant amount but lets not forget what we're getting here for the price .
A relatively new new technology at an "affordable" price with new manufacturing techniques that enable the product to be so affordable . And to some extent like it or not we are all guinea pigs for them to perfect the strength to lightness vs price equation . 
Lets get back to ride impressions , build impressions , delivery promises (missed or otherwise) . As much as I like technical stuff , it's a bike wheel NOT the space shuttle and I don't think lives depend on a nipple breaking or having to get the rims re-spoked in 5 years . :thumbsup:

^ All said with tongue in cheek n just trying to lighten the mood


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Guys what is "*use of instantaneous point brake, do not long time brake*"?

Got these from Baixiangbike, also as rims, also as a wheel build. Have posted the geometry few pages back.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

ypocat said:


> Guys what is "*use of instantaneous point brake, do not long time brake*"?
> 
> Got these from Baixiangbike, also as rims, also as a wheel build. Have posted the geometry few pages back.


Don't drag your braking...pretty sure it refers to road rims to minimize heat buildup directly on the rim. Mountain wheels w/ discs...drag away!


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Pau11y said:


> Don't drag your braking...pretty sure it refers to road rims to minimize heat buildup directly on the rim. Mountain wheels w/ discs...drag away!


ahh, thanks 

just realized I pumped my Furious Freds at 60psi but the rim label says 50psi, oops anway, got a pucture today, switching to tubeless tomorrow, so max 40psi anyway (according to Stan)...

also, I tried tubeless previously with these but could not inflate them with a floor pump - so I have since bough an air compressor and will see how it goes.

anybody here runs these as tubeless on MTB? any pointers?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Other an the recent ramblings about corrosion, this entire thread is filled with comments about running light bicycle rims tubeless. Summary, it works as expected. Have at it.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

dfiler said:


> Other an the recent ramblings about corrosion, this entire thread is filled with comments about running light bicycle rims tubeless. Summary, it works as expected. Have at it.


I'm almost convinced. I think I'm gonna pony up for the other Bontrager rim strip and do my rear rim. I did it with yellow tape, but the tire kept burping and rolling off. so I've been running a tube back there for the last six months.



ypocat said:


> ahh, thanks
> 
> just realized I pumped my Furious Freds at 60psi but the rim label says 50psi, oops anway, got a pucture today, switching to tubeless tomorrow, so max 40psi anyway (according to Stan)...
> 
> ...


I hope you're kidding. 40 psi is really frickin high, especially for 29er tires, especially for tubeless. I'm 210# and I run 28 psi on my skinniest tires, a 2.0. I usually run 25 psi on my 2.3s.


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

Is Stans sealant corrosive when mixed with carbon and aluminum?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Enoch said:


> Is Stans sealant corrosive when mixed with carbon and aluminum?


You evil, evil man.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Enoch said:


> Is Stans sealant corrosive when mixed with carbon and aluminum?


The Bontrager Rim strip is so freaking tight the juice will never get to the nipples.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Enoch said:


> Is Stans sealant corrosive when mixed with carbon and aluminum?


/Me spits out coffee. :thumbsup:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> I'm almost convinced. I think I'm gonna pony up for the other Bontrager rim strip and do my rear rim. I did it with yellow tape, but the tire kept burping and rolling off. so I've been running a tube back there for the last six months.


Remember I built a set of "heavier" AM Nancy rims... I'm gonna build a 2nd set soon, a lighter/standard set. But I won't even compromise the security of those Bonty strips for the weight of yellow tape...and I'm sitting on 2 rolls of the stuff.


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## simpy16 (Apr 18, 2012)

Pau11y said:


> Remember I built a set of "heavier" AM Nancy rims... I'm gonna build a 2nd set soon, a lighter/standard set. But I won't even compromise the security of those Bonty strips for the weight of yellow tape...and I'm sitting on 2 rolls of the stuff.


Did you notice a certain way you had to run the strips for them to work with the Nancy AM rims? Was there a "left and right" side that had to be put on correctly or can you just install them anyway and they will work.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

im running 1" gorilla tape, I have my drive side spokes at 120kgf, I use a compressor to set the bead.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

simpy16: all parts are symmetrical. You can run the rim strip either direction.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

pimpbot said:


> I'm almost convinced. I think I'm gonna pony up for the other Bontrager rim strip and do my rear rim. I did it with yellow tape, but the tire kept burping and rolling off. so I've been running a tube back there for the last six months.
> 
> I hope you're kidding. 40 psi is really frickin high, especially for 29er tires, especially for tubeless. I'm 210# and I run 28 psi on my skinniest tires, a 2.0. I usually run 25 psi on my 2.3s.


good to know, I was actually referring to the maximum stated in Stan's instructions. But yeah there's a chance I'd be trying to get near it and painted my room with latex as the result

Regarding rim strips, I'm hoping the Stan's 29er standard will be fine, as it covers the rim from side to side, actually had to push it under the clinchers at some places.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

simpy16 said:


> Did you notice a certain way you had to run the strips for them to work with the Nancy AM rims? Was there a "left and right" side that had to be put on correctly or can you just install them anyway and they will work.


Well...get them under the rim's bead seat, obviously. Other than that, just make sure you get the strips for the symmetrical rims.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Getting ready to order a pair for a build. I havne't been following the thread for the last couple of months. What's everyone using to run tubeless?

Stans tape?
Bontrager rim strips?
Gorilla Tape?



TIA!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Bontrager Rythm Symetric Rim strips.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Bontrager Rythm Symetric Rim strips.


same here


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Bontrager rim strips here as well. 

I finally figured out why my Nevegals wouldn't seal up. It was the Bontrager valve stems, not the tires. Swapped them out for some Stans valves and they haven't lost a pound of air since.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Stans Yellow / Gorilla Tape

Never burped or lost air - seated fine with a floor pump.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Whoa so I did my first tubeless today.. Stan's rim strips and sealant, rim tape which came with the rims, and instead of soapy water the Easy Fit from Schwalbe (which I suspect has made my noob experience many times better).

I was getting desperate as it wasn't inflating even with a compressor and a removed valve, but then I learned how to do it - stretch the tire where the valve is so that the beads touch the rim sides (2 hands needed), then to free one hand, in that same place push the top side of the tire down closer to rim so that it stays seated (at that place anyway) - and then pump it with the other hand. That did it. Pumped both tires to 35psi, the pressure is stable, but only did a very small ride today, will test more soon.


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## Bhorium (May 3, 2010)

Just finished building my first set of wheels using the wide Nancy 29'er rims with Superstar Tesla Hubs, DT revolution spokes and Bonty rim strips. Weight ended on 1650g.
Have a question regarding the build: The wheels are laterally true, dish is ok, tension is around 19 (133 kgf) on the Park tool tensionmeter for the drive side/disc side front, and around 15 on the other side (88 kgf). The tension is also fairly equal all around. 
I only have a litte concern about the radial trueness. There is no high or low "spots" but on both the front and rear wheel there is a rather long section (about half the rim) which is a little lower. (Around 1 mm maybe). Could this be due to the manufacturing not being 100%, or can this happen because of not building it correct? This is as said my first build, and therefore I'm not sure.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

How do these rims compare to Stans crest rims as far as width and weight. Do they ride better for all Mt use?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Bhorium said:


> Could this be due to the manufacturing not being 100%, or can this happen because of not building it correct?


It's the build. You likely added tension too quickly. As you add tension, if you tighten the nipples too much at once you will squeeze a hump into the rim.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Bhorium I just built my 3rd front yesterday. It is the way you built them. As I was starting to get tension in the wheel I had the same problem. Most of the spokes were at around 10 one side and 5 other side. It was the most lumpy rim ever or so it appeared (not really since I bought 2 rims and they layed up against each other very flat and true-this is how I know it was not a manufacturing problem).So then I kept tightening spokes in the high areas until it is all the same. Then I go back to truing the wheel left right and dish periodically checking the height. I ended up with one of the truest wheels I have ever built and around 20 on the Park guage on one side and around 16 average on the other.
You need to loosen up the spokes to around 10 and 5or 6 and get the radial trueness under control and then retrue the wheel.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

Has anybody gotten 3x wide rims shipped lately?...just wondering about the turn around time. I ordered my wider 3x matte pair on December 28th and haven't seen them ship yet, but am not sure if they send a confirmation when they send them out. I am really looking forward to building these up.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

They will email you when they send them out. I just got my latest 2 yesterday that I ordered sometime in December. I usually figure about 4 weeks with shipping and I live in the center of the country.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Also, I was thinking these might have taken close to 5 weeks, but China was shut down sometime in late December for Chinese new year so they lost about a week. Don't worry about it, they will email you.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

ypocat said:


> Whoa so I did my first tubeless today.. Stan's rim strips and sealant, rim tape which came with the rims, and instead of soapy water the Easy Fit from Schwalbe (which I suspect has made my noob experience many times better).
> 
> I was getting desperate as it wasn't inflating even with a compressor and a removed valve, but then I learned how to do it - stretch the tire where the valve is so that the beads touch the rim sides (2 hands needed), then to free one hand, in that same place push the top side of the tire down closer to rim so that it stays seated (at that place anyway) - and then pump it with the other hand. That did it. Pumped both tires to 35psi, the pressure is stable, but only did a very small ride today, will test more soon.


One trick that is similar is once you get the tire on, roll the wheel while pushing down to get the edges of the tire to spread closer to the sides of the rim.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

yourdaguy - FYI - 2013, the Year of the Snake, begins on February 10, 2013. The Chinese new year varies every year in relation to our western calendar since it is based on their lunisolar calendar. If it was the same date it wouldn't need to be called "the chinese new year". So plan those orders around the Feb 10th - Feb 24th celebration of their new year


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

yourdaguy said:


> Bontrager Rythm Symetric Rim strips.


Thanks. So, what is the exact process with the Bontrager rim strips?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Your "hop" is off? 
Are you building w/ the gauge to the rim lip or the shoulder of either the vert rim wall to angled sidewall, or angled sidewall to the flat surface of the nipple seat? I got the wheel close w/ the lip, then used the angled/flat shoulder to fine tune cause my T2 has a plastic cover on the tips of the horseshoe. If you use one of these shoulders, the true and hop can be better gauged w/ your stand since these surfaces are from the machined surface of the mold. Also, the rims I ordered had a gloss finish, so it reflected light a bit more.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

Bhorium said:


> Just finished building my first set of wheels using the wide Nancy 29'er rims with Superstar Tesla Hubs, DT revolution spokes and Bonty rim strips. Weight ended on 1650g.
> Have a question regarding the build: The wheels are laterally true, dish is ok, tension is around 19 (133 kgf) on the Park tool tensionmeter for the drive side/disc side front, and around 15 on the other side (88 kgf). The tension is also fairly equal all around.
> I only have a litte concern about the radial trueness. There is no high or low "spots" but on both the front and rear wheel there is a rather long section (about half the rim) which is a little lower. (Around 1 mm maybe). Could this be due to the manufacturing not being 100%, or can this happen because of not building it correct? This is as said my first build, and therefore I'm not sure.


radial trueness is something you have to do explicitly. loosen the spokes for a low spot (pulled in too far) You may have to loosen up to 4-5 spokes from the center of the low spot. Try to loosen them on both sides so you dont mess up the lateral true too much. However it probably will mess up lateral true so you might have to go back and forth. It took 6 hours for my first wheel and about 2 for my second.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Andy13; what was the vacation they took in December? I know they had one, all the Chinese sites had big banners at the top saying they would be closed for a week.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> Andy13; what was the vacation they took in December? I know they had one, all the Chinese sites had big banners at the top saying they would be closed for a week.


Prob the same one where the entire Western world took off...? 

I mean, how are you supposed to get work done w/ your trading partners when they're all taking a week off? Just sayin'


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

DRILLINDK said:


> How do these rims compare to Stans crest rims as far as width and weight. Do they ride better for all Mt use?


Arch EX rims are 450 grams each and 24.6mm wide. The Crest rims are 380 grams each and 24.4mm wide.

Light-bicycle has thier rims listed at 30mm wide. Is that accurate!? I know they're coming in at around 390g.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

DRILLINDK said:


> Light-bicycle has thier rims listed at 30mm wide. Is that accurate!? I know they're coming in at around 390g.


Internal width is what matters.
Crest EX & Arch EX are 21mm.
My LB wides are 23mm.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I would not be surprised that it is related to the west's holiday season like Pau11y says. I'm definitely no expert on Chinese holidays but I have been ordering electronic stuff from China for awhile (mostly for bike lights) and so I am familiar w/ the chinese new year delays.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

goodmojo said:


> One trick that is similar is once you get the tire on, roll the wheel while pushing down to get the edges of the tire to spread closer to the sides of the rim.


thanks, will try that



pimpbot said:


> I hope you're kidding. 40 psi is really frickin high, especially for 29er tires, especially for tubeless. I'm 210# and I run 28 psi on my skinniest tires, a 2.0. I usually run 25 psi on my 2.3s.


i think i now know what you mean - did my first bigger ride with tubeless today, and got a puncture on the rear wheel - these are tires previously used with tubes so there might have been a crack waiting to pop, anyway, it looked like a bigger cut/hole - and it did not want to seal until the pressure dropped i assume close to those 25psi you stated, maybe even less.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Any idea how much it costs to have a full wheel set shipped from light bicycle to the states?


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

As stated by there website, after shipping, as full wheelset will set you back $666. That's how much mine cost and I have been loving it ever since.


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## Bad Radiation (Sep 24, 2005)

*LB production interruption*

Just ordered a pair of wide mountain 32H 3k rims today.

Delivery schedule according to Nancy for Jan 21, 2012:

_The lead time for wide 3k matte rims is around 15days, and for cross country rim is 10days.
The wide rim is the most popular, there are quite a few orders these days, so if you order today, we can ship them before Chinese (Feb 4th to 17th) New Year vacation for you. If you order in the next days, the rims can not be finished after Chinese New Year vacation.

The lead time for 12K is longer, it is the same for UD rims as 3k rims_

And my sincere thanks to each and every poster on this thread. I scanned/read the entire opus this weekend. Very useful exercise in sifting for clues.
Sort of like Opera -lite with less costume changes.
Thank you all!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*About as light...*



DRILLINDK said:


> How do these rims compare to Stans crest rims as far as width and weight. Do they ride better for all Mt use?


... and not noodely at all! The carbon rims are nice and stiff.

The Crest is a total noodle. I felt as if the bars often pointed in a totally different direction than the front wheel at times.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

I've read through the entire thread. It sounds like there have been about 10 or so failures so far. I'm on the fence about buying these rims. My local bike shop is scaring the crap out of me saying a couple guys purchase Chinese carbon rims and the all had failures. One guy broke a few front teeth.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

The fact that they're talking about "chinese carbon rims" makes me discount their opinion. It means that they are either consciously or subconsciously thinking in a bigoted and/or illogical manner. Specifically which brand or model of rims are they claiming are failing at a higher rate than which other brand or model of rims?

These are distinct companies that have no relation to each other. But some people appear only concerned with the nationality of the company's owners. These companies have names and if talking about products, lumping every Chinese owned company together is at best naive and at worst, bigoted. 

Seriously folks, we should be talking about "Light-Bicycle" rims. When talking about ENVE rims do we say "Expensive American Carbon Rims"? The answer is no, because the specific company matters. It matters if the rims are ENVE, Easton, or sram. Similarly, the brand still matters when the company is owned by Chinese people.

I wish the mods would change the title of this thread. It is perpetuating this insanity.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

dfiler said:


> The fact that they're talking about "chinese carbon rims" makes me discount their opinion. It means that they are either consciously or subconsciously thinking in a bigoted and/or illogical manner. Specifically which brand or model of rims are they claiming are failing at a higher rate than which other brand or model of rims?
> 
> These are distinct companies that have no relation to each other. But some people appear only concerned with the nationality of the company's owners. These companies have names and if talking about products, lumping every Chinese owned company together is at best naive and at worst, bigoted.
> 
> ...


Get a grip. Just because someone uses a very common descriptor does not point to bigotry. Ignorance yes but bigotry is a huge leap.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> The fact that they're talking about "chinese carbon rims" makes me discount their opinion. It means that they are either consciously or subconsciously thinking in a bigoted and/or illogical manner. Specifically which brand or model of rims are they claiming are failing at a higher rate than which other brand or model of rims?
> 
> These are distinct companies that have no relation to each other. But some people appear only concerned with the nationality of the company's owners. These companies have names and if talking about products, lumping every Chinese owned company together is at best naive and at worst, bigoted.
> 
> ...


These Chinese "brands" (there are more than one) don't really _*brand*_ their stuff that much. Except for the web address there was no branding of any sort on the rims or packaging I received.
ENVE rims say so big as life on the side of the rim... six times on each rim, IIRC. That's a little easier to remember.
And... going back to the OP, he was asking for any direct-source (_i.e._, from China) rims, similar to the frames people have been getting for quite a while. Why should mods change the name of the thread? Saying "Chinese carbon rims," if you can keep your emotional reaction at bay, provides a better picture of what someone is talking about than "light-bicycle." Oddly enough, that's why people say it.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dfiler said:


> The fact that they're talking about "chinese carbon rims" makes me discount their opinion. It means that they are either consciously or subconsciously thinking in a bigoted and/or illogical manner. Specifically which brand or model of rims are they claiming are failing at a higher rate than which other brand or model of rims?
> 
> These are distinct companies that have no relation to each other. But some people appear only concerned with the nationality of the company's owners. These companies have names and if talking about products, lumping every Chinese owned company together is at best naive and at worst, bigoted.
> 
> ...


A lot of drama around you I'm guessing.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Get a grip. Just because someone uses a very common descriptor does not point to bigotry. Ignorance yes but bigotry is a huge leap.


You must have missed how every sentence that said it was possibly bigoted, also said it could be simply illogical or naive thinking.



meltingfeather said:


> These Chinese "brands" (there are more than one) don't really _*brand*_ their stuff that much. Except for the web address there was no branding of any sort on the rims or packaging I received.
> ENVE rims say so big as life on the side of the rim... six times on each rim, IIRC. That's a little easier to remember.
> And... going back to the OP, he was asking for any direct-source (_i.e._, from China) rims, similar to the frames people have been getting for quite a while. Why should mods change the name of the thread? Saying "Chinese carbon rims," if you can keep your emotional reaction at bay, provides a better picture of what someone is talking about than "light-bicycle." Oddly enough, that's why people say it.


Interesting point about branding on the side of the rims. However, inclusion of a sticker does not seem like logical criteria for lumping multiple manufactures together.



TwoTone said:


> A lot of drama around you I'm guessing.


None of my post was written with heated emotion. Although it is understandable if it was interpreted as such without the body language, vocal tone, or facial expressions that would be apparent in person.

*If someone says don't buy rims because they have a history of breaking, what matters is the brand and model of rim, not the nationality of the owners and website developers.* After all, most bicycle products are made in china.

[edit]Removed two paragraphs that may have derailed the thread.[/edit]


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## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

Why even include the inference? Histrionics are best left to 13 y.o. little girls.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

floydlippencott said:


> Why even include the inference?


Because it is true and important to how people perceive product quality from different brands.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Novatec axle adapters*



erikrc10 said:


> As stated by there website, after shipping, as full wheelset will set you back $666. That's how much mine cost and I have been loving it ever since.


 Hey Erik, did you get the Novatec hubs with the replaceable end cap axle adapters? How easy is it to switch back and forth between adapters? I would like to use my wheels for both 9mm QR and 15mm TA forks, and want to know if this is a practical idea.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Lemmie guess...*



DRILLINDK said:


> I've read through the entire thread. It sounds like there have been about 10 or so failures so far. I'm on the fence about buying these rims. My local bike shop is scaring the crap out of me saying a couple guys purchase Chinese carbon rims and the all had failures. One guy broke a few front teeth.


... because they aren't making money on it? I found a lot of LBS shop rats will poopoo stuff they don't sell, or don't want to sell. I one had an LBS tell me in no uncertain terms that at my weight (200#... not that heavy) I would break the frame on a sub $500 bike (back in 2000) the first ride out. I rode the crap out of that frame for 10 years before I finally sold it.

Inexperienced sales people always seem to resort to scare tactics. Scare tactics to sales people are like Mrs. America contestants wishing for wold peace. Amateur stunts, basically.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Inexperienced sales people always seem to resort to scare tactics. Scare tactics to sales people are like Mrs. America contestants wishing for wold peace. Amateur stunts, basically.


And good sales reps turn that fear into profits.

One of my wheel builders provides a life time warranty on builds. For parts that he orders $80/wheel. If you bring your own parts, it is $140/wheel.


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

DRILLINDK said:


> One guy broke a few front teeth.


They may of failed to add that was in a bar brawl post ride..

I have an LB beefed up (437 g) rim as a front & an Enve am rear (26ers).
I went with the Enve rear as my thoughts were a proven design & the R & D had been extensive. But I decided an LB would be worth the risk as a front.
At this stage ( only been on them two months) the LB is are holding up well.

I did some DH shuttles over the Xmas break in some very rocky terrain, no problem.
Then a crash that rolled the tire & collected dirt & debris in the bead , no problem.
Most of my riding isn't on rocks so they probably wont get the beating some of you subject your wheels to, but I am hard on my gear.
Remember people have also been breaking the Enve rims & the internal alloy nipples are a pain.
If I was going to purchase again I'd just go LB front & back , it's hard to ignore the price difference.


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## messias (Oct 11, 2009)

geo025 said:


> I have an LB beefed up (437 g) rim as a front & an Enve am rear (26ers).
> I went with the Enve rear as my thoughts were a proven design & the R & D had been extensive. But I decided an LB would be worth the risk as a front.


I'm not saying the the LB rim is going to break on you earlier than the Enve, but your logic of putting the more proven rim in the rear wheel seems flawed.
Rear rim folds at high speed - the wheel blocks, you come to a sliding stop, maybe a light crash.
Front rim folds at high speed - you can probably figure out what that means. A lost tooth might be the least of your worries.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

messias said:


> I'm not saying the the LB rim is going to break on you earlier than the Enve, but your logic of putting the more proven rim in the rear wheel seems flawed.
> Rear rim folds at high speed - the wheel blocks, you come to a sliding stop, maybe a light crash.
> Front rim folds at high speed - you can probably figure out what that means. A lost tooth might be the least of your worries.


The way rims fail, even carbon rims... I highly doubt that a breaking rim is ever going to cause a crash. More like the other way around. A bad crash probably would be the cause of a broken rim... if it broke. It's not like... hmm hummm, riding down the smooth trail and BOOM! Broken teeth. 

Also, I think any aluminum rim would fail long before a carbon rim would fail in real world situations. The only exception is hitting a big rock hard enough to break a sidewall, causing the tire to come off. Even then, that is a really extreme situation... the kind where the big hit would have knocked you off the bike in the first place. I've seen folks come down from air sideways, tweaking a rim so bad it stops turning in the frame. Really, it was the bad landing that caused the failure, not the rim.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> ... if it broke. It's not like... hmm hummm, riding down the smooth trail and BOOM! Broken teeth. .


This visual is priceless! :thumbsup:


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## Trackdawson (Apr 22, 2011)

To update on shipping times my rims shipped yesterday morning. I ordered 12k matte wider rims on Dec. 31. On Jan. 3 I was told they would take 15-17 days plus QA before they would ship. Pretty much dead on with the timing.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

pimpbot said:


> The way rims fail, even carbon rims... I highly doubt that a breaking rim is ever going to cause a crash. More like the other way around. A bad crash probably would be the cause of a broken rim... if it broke. It's not like... hmm hummm, riding down the smooth trail and BOOM! Broken teeth.
> 
> Also, I think any aluminum rim would fail long before a carbon rim would fail in real world situations. The only exception is hitting a big rock hard enough to break a sidewall, causing the tire to come off. Even then, that is a really extreme situation... the kind where the big hit would have knocked you off the bike in the first place. I've seen folks come down from air sideways, tweaking a rim so bad it stops turning in the frame. Really, it was the bad landing that caused the failure, not the rim.


I know, I haven't heard of any catastrphic failures here on MTBR, but after hearing that 3 guys on the LBS race team bought Chinese rims (Unknown manufacturer at this point) and all three broke them I'm very apprehensive. I keep flip flopping between the LB rims and Stans Arch Ex rims.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

DRILLINDK said:


> I know, I haven't heard of any catastrphic failures here on MTBR, but after hearing that 3 guys on the LBS race team bought Chinese rims (Unknown manufacturer at this point) and all three broke them I'm very apprehensive. I keep flip flopping between the LB rims and Stans Arch Ex rims.


Do these guys on the race team have a history of breaking parts?


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't know, but just hearing that all three broke their rims is making me apprehensive. I don't beleive they were LB rims though.

I've been following this thread for awhile now. I'm finally building a custom wheelset, but all of a sudden I'm getting gun shy about the LB rims.


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Another shipping time update - I ordered yesterday (UD, matte, 32 hole) and was told they will ship by Feb. 4.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

DRILLINDK said:


> I don't know, but just hearing that all three broke their rims is making me apprehensive. I don't beleive they were LB rims though.
> 
> I've been following this thread for awhile now. I'm finally building a custom wheelset, but all of a sudden I'm getting gun shy about the LB rims.


FWIW

My buddy that weighs 210 lbs has about 1,500 or more miles on his.

I have beat mine up through rock gardens etc...

Getting ready to build up a new set with the LB rims.

The only rims I have seen many many many fail were the Rovals.


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## Brisco Dog (Nov 5, 2009)

3 different people from the same LBS race bought the same carbon rims and broke them??? I would be way more concerned about using their wheelbuilder than using the rims.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

I ordered on December 28th and my rims shipped today. I ordered 32h 3k matte wider and stronger and Brian said the ones they had were 407 and 411 grams. I'm happy with that, and real impressed he took the time to ask me if I was good with the weights before he shipped them. Seems like a good operation, with impressive communication so far.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Screw it, I purchase the UD Matte w/ 32H. Here goes nothing!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Haymarket said:


> I ordered on December 28th and my rims shipped today. I ordered 32h 3k matte wider and stronger and Brian said the ones they had were 407 and 411 grams. I'm happy with that, and real impressed he took the time to ask me if I was good with the weights before he shipped them. Seems like a good operation, with impressive communication so far.


Hum...my wide/stronger...3K gloss...were 431 and 429g.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

DeeZee said:


> Do these guys on the race team have a history of breaking parts?


Were they built wrong? Did they have the correct spoke tension? Did they run them tubeless and let the pressure go too low and roll the tire off the rim? Did they over inflate the rim and blow the sidewall off?

Were they the uber-light XC rims, or the AM rims?


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

These are all questions that I'll have to find out. Nonetheless, I ordered some rims. What tension is everyone going with 120?


Where can I find the gorilla tape?


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

DRILLINDK said:


> These are all questions that I'll have to find out. Nonetheless, I ordered some rims. What tension is everyone going with 120?
> 
> Where can I find the gorilla tape?


Lowe's, Home Depot, etc...


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Great, thanks for the reply.

I thought I had that tape when I was at HD the other day. I just use the tape as I would a rim strip or Stans?


What spoke tension is everyone using?


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Also, Nancy said they were going to be implementing the new production process on the 29er rims after the Chinese New Year.

Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

This was an interesting read on LB's site:
Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle

Looks like the new process will be extended to the 29er AM rims... Think I'll hold off getting another pair till summer... 

Edit: ...and I don't know about you guys, but their logo looks okay by me...I'd rock it on my bike!


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> This was an interesting read on LB's site:
> Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle
> 
> Looks like the new process will be extended to the 29er AM rims... Think I'll hold off getting another pair till summer...
> ...


They look like Rovals! The best graphics are the Chinese Letters a guy did. Subtle and cool.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> They look like Rovals! The best graphics are the Chinese Letters a guy did. Subtle and cool.


Didn't happen w/o pics


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

messias said:


> I'm not saying the the LB rim is going to break on you earlier than the Enve, but your logic of putting the more proven rim in the rear wheel seems flawed.
> Rear rim folds at high speed - the wheel blocks, you come to a sliding stop, maybe a light crash.
> Front rim folds at high speed - you can probably figure out what that means. A lost tooth might be the least of your worries.


Not really , the rear wheel has to put up with a lot more stress compared to the front.
If you look at the failures most of them are rear wheels.
I have my fair share of crashes over the bars, some times you get hurt & sometimes you don't ,It's the nature of the sport. 
If I was riding on sharp edge rocks every ride ,I may well be a little more concerned.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Yeah, I almost ordered mine with the Light Bicycle decal, it does look good. I decided against it last minute though. 

I'm glad to see they are striving to improve their products. I'm happy with my "old" rims though. They are still running strong and true. Couldn't be happier, especially for the price.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

DRILLINDK said:


> Also, Nancy said they were going to be implementing the new production process on the 29er rims after the Chinese New Year.
> 
> Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle


I was debating what wheels to get for my new Jet9 RDO; this may have just made up my mind


----------



## winkplay (Apr 24, 2012)

I am thinking of getting a complete built wheelset from LB. Can anyone comment on the build quality and novatec hubs quality?
Thanks!


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Read back a few pages.*



winkplay said:


> I am thinking of getting a complete built wheelset from LB. Can anyone comment on the build quality and novatec hubs quality?
> Thanks!


It's been discussed.



Pau11y said:


> This was an interesting read on LB's site:
> Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle
> 
> Looks like the new process will be extended to the 29er AM rims... Think I'll hold off getting another pair till summer...
> ...


Wow... IMHO, those are really gash! I'll stick with plain non-decaled, thankyouverymuch.


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## DITD (Nov 21, 2012)

SUBSCRIBED!! Really thinking about pulling the trigger on these..


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> It's been discussed.
> 
> Wow... IMHO, those are really gash! I'll stick with plain non-decaled, thankyouverymuch.


:thumbsup:

The less decals, the better.


----------



## five5 (Jun 27, 2011)

pimpbot said:


> It's been discussed..


So he's supposed to sift through the 3100 comments? Why not just help him out with an answer? If its been discussed, and you know the answer, or the page where it was discussed, why not help out? I would be interested in hearing as well, but I also got flamed the last time I asked a simple question here, just because I didn't read 3100 comments. What is the problem with being helpful around here?


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

five5 said:


> So he's supposed to sift through the 3100 comments? Why not just help him out with an answer? If its been discussed, and you know the answer, or the page where it was discussed, why not help out? I would be interested in hearing as well, but I also got flamed the last time I asked a simple question here, just because I didn't read 3100 comments. What is the problem with being helpful around here?


people have written that they are a solid mid range hub. Not the best, not the worst.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

five5 said:


> So he's supposed to sift through the 3100 comments? Why not just help him out with an answer? If its been discussed, and you know the answer, or the page where it was discussed, why not help out? I would be interested in hearing as well, but I also got flamed the last time I asked a simple question here, just because I didn't read 3100 comments. What is the problem with being helpful around here?


Yea do some reading, that's why it's here.
Otherwise every other day the same 3 questions get asked and the thread becomes useless because its the same crap rehashed over and over.


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## five5 (Jun 27, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> Yea do some reading, that's why it's here.
> Otherwise every other day the same 3 questions get asked and the thread becomes useless because its the same crap rehashed over and over.


Same crap? Who cares? What else needs to be talked about in a thread about Chinese Carbon Rims? I'd think that the quality of the hubs these rims come with should be a continued part of this conversation. How does that make the thread useless? I'd say there are tons of pages of useless crap being discussed here besides the quality of the hubs.

A forum is for asking questions, that's also why it's here.

I'll add, I get it.. I'm a part of a number of forums. One in particular, there is a thread with 600+ pages. I've been there for a long time, so I've pretty much read every page, because it has been of interest to me from the beginning. Yes, a noob walks in, sees this thread, because it's something he's interested in as well. He doesn't have the time to read 600+ pages, or sift through the garbage that is posted there. He asks a question, I roll my eyes because I've seen the same question 100's of times.. but I'm polite, and either PM the guy with the answer, recal a page it might be on, or simply do what goodmojo just did, briefly summarize the jist of what has been discussed. It's not that hard to be helpful, even if it's a little annoying to someone who has been around for a long time.

I guess we could talk about nipple corrosion some more though..


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

It took me weeks to read the entire thread but I still try to help a new guy out.
My answer is that the hubs are just below mid level based on weight, durability, upgradability, price, etc. and I would build my own wheels with something else.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

five5 said:


> So he's supposed to sift through the 3100 comments? Why not just help him out with an answer? If its been discussed, and you know the answer, or the page where it was discussed, why not help out? I would be interested in hearing as well, but I also got flamed the last time I asked a simple question here, just because I didn't read 3100 comments. What is the problem with being helpful around here?


Nothing wrong with being helpful - that's for sure. Unless somebody has some specific posts bookmarked that are pertinent to the question - it is going to require anyone to do a bit of searching for the forum member who asked the most recent question about the hubs.

The point others are raising is that there seems to be no shortage of information available on the interweb for reviews of Novatec hubs. And we do have "The Google".... I can type in Novatec hubs in Google and immediately get all kinds of hits, information, reviews and opinions. Took me a few seconds - that's all. Digging through this thread would take me, or anyone else - a lot more than a few seconds.

I've read all 3100+ comments on this thread, but wouldn't know where to look outside of reading the thread to get a summary, but I wouldn't treat it as legitimate enough as the Light-Bicycle 29"er pre-built wheels may not have enough field testing, time, distance, duration out on the dirt to come to conclusive evidence to form an opinion from this thread alone. Yet, my memory seems to recall from all the posts on the hubs that there are plenty of better hub options available and ordering the 29"er rims by themselves, and having a quality wheel build done at your LBS - or on your own - seems to be a better golden ticket.

I would like to think that somebody doing their research for buying a product certainly owes it to themselves to make the time commitment by investing in doing some searching, reading and opinion forming (outside of asking others) before making a decision with their $$$.

Nothing is free or easy in life, so the bottom line is the poster who asked about the hubs needs to spend some time digging.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Mine arrived today and look sweet! Had Wider 3K Mattes drop shipped to Chad @ Red Barn. I shipped him an old set of 240S hubs to build up with DT Revolutions. Will be converting the hubs to 15mm front and 142 rear for a Ibis Ripley once it finally gets released. In the interim, will probably test them out on the Tallboy. 
Weights below are without any rim tape or valves. Will be using the Bontrager strips & valves which the set I have came out to 86g for the strips and 18g for the valves--> 104g total 
So complete weight = 1626g (1522g wheels + 104g strips & valves)

BTW - this is the first time I have worked with Chad at Red Barn and he was great to work with. My old wheelbuilders (Larry @ Mtn High and before that Mike @ Odds&Endos) are no longer around, so I have been looking for someone new. Reasonable prices, great reputation, and a genuinely nice guy


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

*Novatec hubs*



winkplay said:


> I am thinking of getting a complete built wheelset from LB. Can anyone comment on the build quality and novatec hubs quality?
> Thanks!


 I have no experience with them but here's a write-up: Ride It, Fix It: Novatec MTB Hubs Review

The trouble is that although the US Novatec website shows a 15mm TA option for their lightweight model, the D711, LB says they're not yet available. I've emailed various Novatec distributors 3 times asking when the convertible D711 will be available but have received no replies. I've also called the US distributor but all I ever get is some guy's voicemail. I've asked Brian at LB to notify me as soon as they are available. I won't need the wheels for a few months yet so I'm willing to wait.

D711SB (FH) - Novatec


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Actually, I didn't...*



five5 said:


> So he's supposed to sift through the 3100 comments? Why not just help him out with an answer? If its been discussed, and you know the answer, or the page where it was discussed, why not help out? I would be interested in hearing as well, but I also got flamed the last time I asked a simple question here, just because I didn't read 3100 comments. What is the problem with being helpful around here?


..."know" the answer. I only sorta loosely got the gist of what other folks have been saying about it. I try not to engage in 'I heard this form somebody else on the interwebz' kinda conversations, because that's how bad information becomes even worse. The poster in question would be getting my regurgitated impression of what other folks have said here, and since I have never owned a set, don't really care to own a set (or, maybe I'll try them out someday... who knows? Not really on my radar at this time..), or even known anybody personally who owned a set... or never even saw one myself in the flesh, I would just be handing out more bad info.

Yeah, Google is your friend... mostly.  You can easily find the posts in this thread by searching for Novatec. It ain't that hard. The machines do all the work for you. :thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

five5 said:


> Same crap? Who cares? What else needs to be talked about in a thread about Chinese Carbon Rims? I'd think that the quality of the hubs these rims come with should be a continued part of this conversation. How does that make the thread useless? I'd say there are tons of pages of useless crap being discussed here besides the quality of the hubs.
> 
> A forum is for asking questions, that's also why it's here.
> 
> ...


what's wrong with suggesting a search? even maybe how to do it? like *THIS*
it benefits the community. you roll your eyes, then make that person all the more likely to do the same thing again by answering and/or doing the work for them? ut:
this thread wouldn't be a fraction of as cumbersome as it is (and I personally would have been saved clicking and deleting hundreds of notification e-mails) if people did some searching . you don't have to read every post to find stuff... just learn some basic search skills. :thumbsup:


----------



## five5 (Jun 27, 2011)

Dead horse.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

five5 said:


> I'll just converse with Google, ...blah blah blah
> 
> Later :thumbsup:


So you are going to _search_ then? 
Good boy for not being a slacker and asking for things to be handed to you on a platter. Just about everyone who contributes here did their own legwork...just sayin' :thumbsup:

Edit: hey wetpaint...


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Wow... IMHO, those are really gash! I'll stick with plain non-decaled, thankyouverymuch.


You hurt my feelwing! 


Actually, I was thinking the verbiage should be along the same lines as, "Enve," of advertising "I have carbon rims"... Something along the lines of, "Plastic Fantastic!" What do you think?


----------



## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

pau11y- if you read the comments in the 650b rim technology post the lb sent out, you'll see that you don't need to wait until summer to get 29er rims w/ the new process. Nancy says:"the rims shipped after Chinese New vacation ( Feb4th to Feb17th) will be with new process. You can start to order these days, but the shipping will be after Chinese New Year vacation. You can make a note on the order that you like rims with new process.'' 
new rims made even better!!


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> So you are going to _search_ then?
> Good boy for not being a slacker and asking for things to be handed to you on a platter. Just about everyone who contributes here did their own legwork...just sayin' :thumbsup:


I don't get it:madman:

Are we not meant to help people out as much as we can ??

If you know the answer why not just answer the question ?

We are in the same sport & I for 1 like to help out were I can, Saying do the leg work yourself isn't what a forum is about IMO.

It's about chatting with others that have already done the leg work & can offer you an over view.

Just say'n

No need to respond to this post, I will just search for the responce I''m happy with.


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

xc biker said:


> pau11y- if you read the comments in the 650b rim technology post the lb sent out, you'll see that you don't need to wait until summer to get 29er rims w/ the new process. Nancy says:"the rims shipped after Chinese New vacation ( Feb4th to Feb17th) will be with new process. You can start to order these days, but the shipping will be after Chinese New Year vacation. You can make a note on the order that you like rims with new process.''
> new rims made even better!!


This is correct. I ordered a pair of wider 29er rims the other day and then the next day, this new process was announced. I e-mailed Brian and asked that my order be delayed so they could be made with this new process. He promptly e-mailed back and said that wouldn't be a problem. He says that they will not ship until after Feb 20th when they ramp up production of the 29er rims with the new process.


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## kda25 (Jul 30, 2009)

Love the sinister look of your bike! I'm thinking of building one very similar (albeit geared for the CO terrain). Did you build your own wheels? If so, any tips on using the light bicycle carbon rims? (Also, how are they holding up?) Thanks for any help you can provide in the gray world of chinese carbon...


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Uh...*



muzzanic said:


> I don't get it:madman:
> 
> Are we not meant to help people out as much as we can ??
> 
> ...


That's an awful large amount lot of outrage, eh?


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Pau11y said:


> You hurt my feelwing!
> 
> 
> Actually, I was thinking the verbiage should be along the same lines as, "Enve," of advertising "I have carbon rims"... Something along the lines of, "Plastic Fantastic!" What do you think?


Bonus points for making that in a logo with Mandarin letters. :thumbsup:


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Bonus points for making that in a logo with Mandarin letters. :thumbsup:


And get rid of the red! Black on black or white!


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Hopefully the new logos are removable. No thanks.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I could be wrong....*



ktm520 said:


> Hopefully the new logos are removable. No thanks.


.. but I think they are optional.


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

adroit rider said:


> and get rid of the red! Black on black or white!


+ 1


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## winkplay (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks to those who are kind enough to help. I am actually more concerned about the quality of the build? Seen some posts that says tension is uneven but would like to know if they improved recently. Also, how is the quality of the spokes lb use? Never heard of them and Google could not help.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

winkplay said:


> Thanks to those who are kind enough to help. I am actually more concerned about the quality of the build? Seen some posts that says tension is uneven but would like to know if they improved recently. Also, how is the quality of the spokes lb use? Never heard of them and Google could not help.


As with any machine or factory build you should check the tension upon receipt and make adjustments. Your LBS may charge $20-40 to do this.

There are many reasons why people prefer local builder or DIY. From this thread, it has been made clear that aluminum nipples need a lubricant to prolong lifetime and you don't know what LB uses for nipple prep.

The flip side is value. $666 for a carbon hoop wheel set is unbelievable and the worst case scenario may be a rebuild with new spokes and nipples in a couple years.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

five5 said:


> The initial response wasn't "Suggesting a search", the response was "It's been discussed". Which isn't helpful at all, and.. I wasn't even the one asking, only interested in the answer... so I don't need to "Learn to search", I'm just not understanding why people can't be helpful, and answer a question. Maybe this is the first step to their research? Simple direction might be all they need.
> 
> I'll be sure not to ask another question here. It seems way to bothersome to be polite, and help someone with a question, for many here. All good.
> 
> ...












lol
first, i guess you missed the "read back a few pages."
second, you weren't even the guy who asked the question that has been discussed at length over and over and over. you're just the guy who got upset about a contributing forum member pointing out that discussion of novatec hubs is plentiful and available to you easier than asking (the same effort put into a forum search would have yielded much more useful information than asking a question that has been asked 1,000 times). click this link to see how many threads have been started asking about novatec hubs.

this forum is about sharing information and helping people. i spend most of my time here offering information and answering questions (helping people). that doesn't mean it's wrong to suggest someone look at the VAST archives of useful information before asking a question for the hundredth time.

i search before posting a question. i know it's a crazy concept, but what you'll find is that most questions (_e.g._, does anyone like trek bikes?!?) have been answered already and in the time it takes you to post the question you can have your answer many times over. :thumbsup:


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## five5 (Jun 27, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> lol
> first, i guess you missed the "read back a few pages."
> second, you weren't even the guy who asked the question that has been discussed at length over and over and over. you're just the guy who got upset about a contributing forum member pointing out that discussion of novatec hubs is plentiful and available to you easier than asking (the same effort put into a forum search would have yielded much more useful information than asking a question that has been asked 1,000 times). click this link to see how many threads have been started asking about novatec hubs.
> 
> ...


Like I said, there is not a problem with telling someone to do a search, the response was "it's been discussed".

Keep talking down to people. It fits you well.

Again, you've proved how much smarter than me, hope putting me down makes you feel better. I'm simply trying to help the person.

Again, sorry to interrupt all of you vast knowledge.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I'll probably get neg. Rep for asking this, but can people please stop arguing on this forum?!
if you want to argue with each other than just pm each other. All these arguments take up so much needless space on this forum (which is long enough already). Nobody wants to hear you bickering amongst yourselves. 
I'm not taking sides on whether he should have asked or not but please stop wasting space on this forum. If you are getting upset at the guy for asking a question and wasting space, then stop arguing and wasting space.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

**sigh**



five5 said:


> Like I said, there is not a problem with telling someone to do a search, the response was "it's been discussed".
> 
> Keep talking down to people. It fits you well.
> 
> ...












Reeely?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

five5 said:


> Like I said, there is not a problem with telling someone to do a search, the response was "it's been discussed".


Actually, he said "Read back a few pages. It's been discussed. "



five5 said:


> Keep talking down to people. It fits you well.
> 
> Again, you've proved how much smarter than me, hope putting me down makes you feel better. I'm simply trying to help the person.
> 
> Again, sorry to interrupt all of you vast knowledge.


That's an awful lot of butt hurt for someone who injected himself into the discussion by criticizing someone. Nobody killed your kitten. It's going to be okay. :nonod:


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

I am now a victim of the dreaded galvanic corrosion on my LB rims. (Sorry, i don't mean to start anymore in depth discussions on this..)

I was prepping my wheels for an upcoming bike vacation and when I grabbed my front wheel by a couple of spokes, one snapped at the nipple. I checked the rest of them and two more broke.

So, since i am not ready to give on these rims yet, any thoughts on if I put some super glue/epoxy/nail polish on the spoke holes to potentially minimize this happening again?
Or should I just get them built with brass and call it a day?

Thoughts anyone?


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Gunnar-man said:


> Thoughts anyone?


Pics


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Gunnar-man said:


> I am now a victim of the dreaded galvanic corrosion on my LB rims. (Sorry, i don't mean to start anymore in depth discussions on this..)
> 
> Thoughts anyone?


Pictures.

Who built them.

What was used to prep the nipples and spokes.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Gunnar-man said:


> I am now a victim of the dreaded galvanic corrosion on my LB rims. (Sorry, i don't mean to start anymore in depth discussions on this..)
> 
> I was prepping my wheels for an upcoming bike vacation and when I grabbed my front wheel by a couple of spokes, one snapped at the nipple. I checked the rest of them and two more broke.
> 
> ...


How old is your wheel build ?


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

Here ya go. Adroit, I had them built from one of the LBS here, supposedly by their veteran builder. Don't know of the prep he did.

When I pulled the tape off, there was some moisture in there and I assume that the white grains on some of the backs of the nipples is corrosion? 

They have been in my garage the last four months, hanging in the rafters and it has been a very snowy and slushy winter so far here, resulting in my garage being very humid at times. Dunno if htat is a contributing factor or not?


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

muzzanic said:


> How old is your wheel build ?


Had it built last July. Stopped riding on them in Oct once the snow started and they have about 700km on them.


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## Appendage (Jan 12, 2004)

Holy crap! Just when I had stopped losing sleep over galvanic corrosion!


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## trail rida (Jul 5, 2011)

...


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Gunnar-man said:


> Had it built last July. Stopped riding on them in Oct once the snow started and they have about 700km on them.


Wow. That sucks. I am glad it didn't happen ten miles from the car...

I would consider rebuilding with brass.

Where do you live?


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

*silver alloy?*

I noticed the nipple failures seems to happen with silver alloy, which are not anodized
All the big guys like Easton, Reynolds, DTSwiss, and Specialized, etc. all use anodized
alum. alloy on their carbon wheels and don't seem to have these issues...
Also I think the spoke on that broken nipple is too short...may have been a factor.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Uh....*



Nels said:


> I noticed the nipple failures seems to happen with silver alloy, which are not anodized
> All the big guys like Easton, Reynolds, DTSwiss, and Specialized, etc. all use anodized
> alum. alloy on their carbon wheels and don't seem to have these issues...
> Also I think the spoke on that broken nipple is too short...may have been a factor.


Silver alloy is still anodized. It just doesn't have any dye in the tank when they anodize it.


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Silver alloy is still anodized. It just doesn't have any dye in the tank when they anodize it.


I just had to check that out...have some silver DT and WS nips, seems you are half correct, the WS nipple is anodized, while the DT are not. You can tell by trying to polish them with some Mothers or other alum. polish.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Nels said:


> I just had to check that out...have some silver DT and WS nips, seems you are half correct, the WS nipple is anodized, while the DT are not. You can tell by trying to polish them with some Mothers or other alum. polish.


Rep for hard evidence - looks like the failed nipples were not anodized which is definitely not a good choice.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Now you guys can quit beating me up for suggesting this could be a problem. Anodized should help a lot, but I still think that down the road as the anodizing wears off this will be a problem. The ENVE rims have molded spoke holes so the carbon is covered up.
Since I didn't really consider this problem until the question was asked on this forum, I took no precautions with my first 2 sets I built. With this last set, I dipped a chopstik in a can of the copper colored never seize and poked it through each spoke hole before I built the wheels. In a couple of years I will be able to tell you if this helped.


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

Adroit Rider said:


> Wow. That sucks. I am glad it didn't happen ten miles from the car...
> 
> I would consider rebuilding with brass.
> 
> Where do you live?


I live in Calgary, Alberta.

Yes, I am glad i found it now. I am heading down to Phoenix for a week of riding and would hate to have that front wheel break on me down htere. Could have ended up with a mouth full of Cholla cactus.

I will get the wheel rebuilt with brass nipples, anodized at the very least.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Now you guys can quit beating me up for suggesting this could be a problem. Anodized should help a lot, but I still think that down the road as the anodizing wears off this will be a problem. The ENVE rims have molded spoke holes so the carbon is covered up.
> Since I didn't really consider this problem until the question was asked on this forum, I took no precautions with my first 2 sets I built. With this last set, I dipped a chopstik in a can of the copper colored never seize and poked it through each spoke hole before I built the wheels. In a couple of years I will be able to tell you if this helped.


lol... you didn't suggest it could be a problem... there was an ongoing conversation about it and you jumped in trying to sound like an expert after 10 minutes of google searching.
the galvanic corrosion issue is far from settled, but maybe you can click over to the other thread and offer your expert opinion to the guy with disintegrating nipples in his ENVE rim, you know, since you've got all this stuff figured out. 

the hilarity rolls on...
:band:


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Nels said:


> I just had to check that out...have some silver DT and WS nips, seems you are half correct, the WS nipple is anodized, while the DT are not. You can tell by trying to polish them with some Mothers or other alum. polish.


Nels,
Anodizing is a thin layer of _aluminum oxide_ on the surface of any aluminum exposed to air...or more precisely oxygen. Bare aluminium will anodize itself just by sitting in air, over time. So, your DTs _are_ anodized, if not by caustic soda, then by air. BUT, I'm pretty sure they are ano'd by caustic soda, just w/o color.


----------



## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Gunnar-man said:


> When I pulled the tape off, there was some moisture in there


What kind of tape did you use ?


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

The pics look like it may be an issue w/ the spoke/nipple interface. I am no expert. It looks like a similar failure I've had on an alloy rim. I had some aluminum nipples fail on an aluminum road rim. I don't know if any spoke prep or lube was used in my build. To repeat....I am no expert, just a previous experience I had that may or may not be helpful in this discussion. Andy


----------



## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Pau11y said:


> Nels,
> Anodizing is a thin layer of _aluminum oxide_ on the surface of any aluminum exposed to air...or more precisely oxygen. Bare aluminium will anodize itself just by sitting in air, over time. So, your DTs _are_ anodized, if not by caustic soda, then by air. BUT, I'm pretty sure they are ano'd by caustic soda, just w/o color.


That doesn't sound right. Bare aluminum develops a thin oxide film, but anodizing makes a much thicker protective layer. You seem to be suggesting that letting bare aluminum sit in air will achieve the same effect. That is definitely not correct.

I'm very surprised if that's true that silver DT nipples are not anodized.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Quick Summary of the nipple debate:

Facts about aluminum nipples:
Roughly 40g per wheel set lighter than brass
Different color options
Higher corrosion values than brass
Free with the purchase of DT Swiss spokes

Facts about brass nipples:
Tom Boonen uses them in Paris Roubaix


Proposed test:
Build a set of wheels with alternating nipples between brass and aluminum
Ride the wheels in wet conditions, dry conditions, etc
Disassemble and take close up photos and other cool engineer tests
Post results on MTBR

I bet DT Swiss has already performed the above tests and came to the following conclusions:
We can sell more spokes, hubs and rims if we use aluminum nipples
Lets give away aluminum nipples


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Gunnar-man said:


> Here ya go. Adroit, I had them built from one of the LBS here, supposedly by their veteran builder. Don't know of the prep he did.
> 
> When I pulled the tape off, there was some moisture in there and I assume that the white grains on some of the backs of the nipples is corrosion?
> 
> They have been in my garage the last four months, hanging in the rafters and it has been a very snowy and slushy winter so far here, resulting in my garage being very humid at times. Dunno if htat is a contributing factor or not?


Before we get too excited, I wouldn't neccessarily chalk this one up soley to corrosion. Its hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the spoke was a few mm's short which puts the nipple purely in tension. Ideally (from what I've read  ), the spoke should protrude past the plane where it seats in rim so that it's loaded in both compression and tension. Looks like a tensile failure to me. Whether or not corrision was a contributing factor is debateable. Also very well possible that you got a couple of bad nipples.

Meltingfeather, call me out if I'm wrong here.


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

ktm520 said:


> Before we get too excited, I wouldn't neccessarily chalk this one up soley to corrosion. Its hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the spoke was a few mm's short which puts the nipple purely in tension. Ideally (from what I've read  ), the spoke should protrude past the plane where it seats in rim so that it's loaded in both compression and tension. Looks like a tensile failure to me. Whether or not corrision was a contributing factor is debateable. Also very well possible that you got a couple of bad nipples.
> 
> Meltingfeather, call me out if I'm wrong here.


Interesting. When I looked at the other broken spokes, they look like they broke around the pretty much the same spot on the nipple. Looking into the the spoke holes from the rim bed, some of the unbroken ones are protruding well into the nipple and others are recessed into the nipple.
So, this could be a combination of a bad build and corrosion.
i will try a different bike shop for the next build.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I was looking for info on the question of whether silver DT nipples are anodized, and found some interesting info (or perhaps "claims") from Sapim:



> In the past, aluminum nipples had only one positive argument, the weight. All other features like corrosion resistance, friction, stiffness were specific to brass nipples. This changed in the last years drastically. All our aluminum nipples are now anodized. Salt spray tests showed better results than brass nickel plated nipples. You can choose 7 different colors. We had been able to reduce friction with a special coating. As an effect you don't need to oil or grease the nipple like you should with the brass version. For the last three years, Sapim has used the 7075 material and have additional strength added by the heat treatment T6. Alloy nipples are now stronger than brass. Aluminum nipples are more expensive but for sure much better than brass. For those who care about weight, special colors and quality, aluminum nipple is advised.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

spsoon said:


> That doesn't sound right. Bare aluminum develops a thin oxide film, but anodizing makes a much thicker protective layer. You seem to be suggesting that letting bare aluminum sit in air will achieve the same effect. That is definitely not correct.
> 
> I'm very surprised if that's true that silver DT nipples are not anodized.


You're right on the thickness between the natural and artificial processes. However, thickness notwithstanding, aluminum_ will_ oxidize and "ano" itself. 
Now, if you pair this w/ heat treating, a hardened aluminum part with an artificially ano'd surface will be a more durable part than an identical part w/o artificial ano-ing.
My point: it doesn't really matter if a nipple is or isn't ano'd. Check the 4th paragraph on the thickness of the artificially ano'd part, and think about how much material is removed during the wheel's tension phase during a build: The Fundamentals of TIG Welding Anodized Aluminum

Edit: I'm pretty certain that even w/ lube, the amount of aluminum removed during tensioning will be an order of magnitude or two more than the artificially ano'd thickness.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Gunnar-man said:


> Interesting. When I looked at the other broken spokes, they look like they broke around the pretty much the same spot on the nipple. Looking into the the spoke holes from the rim bed, some of the unbroken ones are protruding well into the nipple and others are recessed into the nipple.
> So, this could be a combination of a bad build and corrosion.
> i will try a different bike shop for the next build.


interesting... along the lines of my thinking as well.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> interesting... along the lines of my thinking as well.


SO much motivation for me to rebuild my wheels w/ brass now!
Recall me mentioning the "heavier" rim seems to have added enough thickness to the ERD to add another millimeter to the calc'd spoke length...used 292, but would rather have gone w/ 293...? :eekster:


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Wikipedia puts the natural oxide layer of Al alloys at 5-15nm. Your link states a typical anodized layer is 0.0002" to 0.001". Converting both to millimeters:
Natural oxide: 0.000005-0.000015mm
Anodizing: 0.00508-0.0254mm

So about 1000 times thicker. I'd say that makes a difference.



Pau11y said:


> think about how much material is removed during the wheel's tension phase during a build


I'm thinking about it, and I'm thinking it's pretty much zero.



Pau11y said:


> Edit: I'm pretty certain that even w/ lube, the amount of aluminum removed during tensioning will be an order of magnitude or two more than the artificially ano'd thickness.


Anodized aluminum is harder than the stainless steel of the spokes, and probably your spoke wrench as well:
Anodizing World: How to define the hardness of the aluminum oxide film formed by hard anodizing

So the anodizing is 0.005-0.025mm thick, and you're saying the tensioning process removes 10-100 times that amount. Are you using a bench grinder to tension your wheels?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

spsoon said:


> Wikipedia puts the natural oxide layer of Al alloys at 5-15nm. Your link states a typical anodized layer is 0.0002" to 0.001". Converting both to millimeters:
> Natural oxide: 0.000005-0.000015mm
> Anodizing: 0.00508-0.0254mm
> 
> ...


Personal experience:
I've disassembled a wheel I started w/ some blue ano'd alloy nipples (wrong spoke length...too long). Where the nips contacted the stainless eyelet, a silver ring of bare alum sat, and this was w/ TriFlo lubed threads and nipple/seat.

The surface may be harder, but the alum under is soft and will give. And when it does, you take off cracked ano'd layer along w/ some of the soft stuff...even if heat treated.

And, let's put those numbers in perspective...at the most extreme end...
0.025mm is 2.5% of a millimeter. Obviously, 100 times this thickness isn't right...actually about the diameter of the spoke itself, yeah? BUT, at 10x, that's only 25% of one mm. Does that sound reasonable? 
For the smaller number...0.005, 100x is 1/2mm, and 10x is 1/2 of 1% of a mm. I can totally see this amount being worn off...albeit 1/2mm would be pretty severe!


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Pau11y said:


> Personal experience:
> I've disassembled a wheel I started w/ some blue ano'd alloy nipples (wrong spoke length...too long). Where the nips contacted the stainless eyelet, a silver ring of bare alum sat, and this was w/ TriFlo lubed threads and nipple/seat.


Were they DT nipples? The more I look into it, the more I wonder if DT alloy nipples are anodized at all, regardless of colour. Wheelsmith and Sapim both explicitly advertise their nipples as anodized, but DT makes no mention of it at all. Perhaps they are raw aluminum with some sort of dye for the coloured versions.

The quote above from Sapim says "All our aluminum nipples are *now* anodized", implying that they weren't before? So maybe it's not that unlikely that DT nipples are still not anodized.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

spsoon said:


> Were they DT nipples? The more I look into it, the more I wonder if DT alloy nipples are anodized at all, regardless of colour. Wheelsmith and Sapim both explicitly advertise their nipples as anodized, but DT makes no mention of it at all. Perhaps they are raw aluminum with some sort of dye for the coloured versions.
> 
> The quote above from Sapim says "All our aluminum nipples are *now* anodized", implying that they weren't before? So maybe it's not that unlikely that DT nipples are still not anodized.


Yeah, they were. Also on red ones...and black ones.
I'm not sure how you can lay down a layer of color w/o at least some form of ano-ing...tho I guess something like a Sharpie... 

Ya know... the thought of heat treating kinda just popped into my head about Gunnar's snapped nipple. If DT does it, and on the occasional situation where cooling was too fast, there could very well been an especially brittle nipple...but totally e-speculation on my part tho.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

anodizing and color dying are two different processes. I don't know how 'deep' the dye goes into the ano layer. In order to dye an aluminum part, it must be anodized then dipped in a dye tank. Silver ano is not dyed. I know that black requires a thicker ano layer for the dye to take well. Lighter colors require less ano thickness to take the dye. True black is the most difficult. Maybe some expert on anodizing can chime in on the thickness that the ano dye is absorbed into the ano layer. It may be possible for an anodized/dyed nipple to show silver at the rim/nipple interface without exposing the non-anodized portion of the aluminum, if that makes sense. All I know is from my home anodizing setup for bike light bodies. Again, I am no expert.


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## slsl123 (Sep 15, 2004)

Fat Biker - Can''t help you find the A2Z hubs but bikehubstore.com has Rotaz and Bitex hubs available - they should be comparable to the A2Z's. I'm going to go with the Bitex hubs - just over 400grams a set, $150, available in thru axle or QR.


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

Soooo....carbon bars & anodized alu stems? The next bombshell?


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

for anyone wondering about novatec hubs, this is an interesting read. Not a review, but a factory photo tour and article:
Making a Novatec Hub - Pinkbike


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Just got an e-mail from Brian stating that the new manufacturing process rims are shipping. Mine should be here next week. I'll post weights and pics when the arrive.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> Now you guys can quit beating me up for suggesting this could be a problem. Anodized should help a lot, but I still think that down the road as the anodizing wears off this will be a problem. The ENVE rims have molded spoke holes so the carbon is covered up.
> Since I didn't really consider this problem until the question was asked on this forum, I took no precautions with my first 2 sets I built. With this last set, I dipped a chopstik in a can of the copper colored never seize and poked it through each spoke hole before I built the wheels. In a couple of years I will be able to tell you if this helped.


there is a post about corrosion on enve rims (custom build)


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2013)

botanicbiker said:


> Just got an e-mail from Brian stating that the new manufacturing process rims are shipping. Mine should be here next week. I'll post weights and pics when the arrive.


To confirm, the new process is now in effect for 29er rims?


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

davidcarson48 said:


> To confirm, the new process is now in effect for 29er rims?


Yes. Originally I wasn't expecting them until after Feb 20 (as per Brian) but I got an e-mail last might stating that they shipped (along with a tracking number). They must have started the 29er wide rims earlier than anticipated.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2013)

Cool, thanks for the info.


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## Salt Cycles (Sep 25, 2004)

Please post pics and impressions when you get them in...I am looking at getting a set and would love to know if there are improvements in the new process.

Thanks



botanicbiker said:


> Yes. Originally I wasn't expecting them until after Feb 20 (as per Brian) but I got an e-mail last might stating that they shipped (along with a tracking number). They must have started the 29er wide rims earlier than anticipated.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

So my ERD is exactly 600mm on both rims, measured with the DT Swiss Alu nipples.


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

Anyone had any luck getting light-bicycle to honor their warranty? 

I have a pair of 700c road rims that bulged after my first descent. "Nancy" said that this was a known problem and they could warranty them no problem. I explained that I no longer could trust their road rims, but had heard good things about the wide 29er rim. She said, "no problem, but our production is delayed and it may take several weeks" This took place back in August and she kept feeding me this same line for several months and then disappeared. Last I heard from her was in November. Any tips for dealing with LB? Thanks for the help!


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Ok been wondering where to post this, but since so many wheel builders appear to frequent this thread, and I do have these carbon rims, I will ask here.

Not sure what spoke lengths to choose, given the calculator output vs the available sizes of DT Revolution which are in 2mm increments.

The only recommendation I came across is to round down the values coming from the spoke length equation, which the calculator already did, but to arrive at the nearest stock length seems to me a bit of a stretch in a few cases, which I'm thinking might be better to do a smaller jump in the opposite direction (e.g. make the spoke 0.1mm longer instead of 1.9mm shorter.

(I know I can get these shortened and rethreaded in some shops, but I'd prefer to avoid that, conjuring the spoke is strongest/fittest when it's not tampered with after the initial manufacturing process.)

So the pic of the sheet lists differences from the available stock spokes (which are 290, 292 and 294mm), where positive number means that much shorter spoke (than the one calculated).

Simply getting the 292mm would simplify things for me in terms of stocking/replacements, but I'm not sure about getting the "rear right" spokes almost 1mm longer than what the calculator printed.

So am I good going with 292mm?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Those spokes are available in every length, not just 2mm increments. I built my light-bicycle wheels with a combination of 291, 292 and 293. It would be best to buy the exact length needed, although people do get by with spokes that are off by 1mm.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Looking at the picture you attached. for the front, I think you would need 292mm for the left and 294 for the right. I read some where that spoke length could be + or - 1 mm of calculated length. So you should round up or down to get to the nearest length available. In this case, 294 is within 1 mm of 293.5 whereas 292 is 1.5 mm so 294 would be the better choice. 292 for the back looks ok to me(but I'm just a noob and only built up 3 sets of wheels so far so you might want to wait for other more experienced members to chime in)


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Revolutions come in 1mm increments, I used them on my last build. General wheelbuild practice is to round down from whatever the exact calculation is. I am not sure of the origin of this practice, it was taught to me by the person that taught me to build wheels. I think the calculators calculate the spoke length to about the bottom of the nipple and all you really need is some of the thereads into the base of the nipple so rounding down works.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Curious what the problem was? I just ordered some 38mm road wheels for use with rim brakes - have only used their rims brakeless or with disc in the past.



2002maniac said:


> Anyone had any luck getting light-bicycle to honor their warranty?
> 
> I have a pair of 700c road rims that bulged after my first descent. "Nancy" said that this was a known problem and they could warranty them no problem.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

That's kind of strange. I had an issue with a 650B rim that I received from LB where a portion of the bead hook looked missing. I contacted Brian at LB and sent him some pictures. He had me mail the rim to an address in New York and once he got confirmation the defective rim was received I was sent a new rim within a week or two.
If I were you I would e-mail them again and get a date from them and tell them if the rims do not ship by that date you want a refund.
I would do it soon since Chinese New Year is coming up in a week and they'll most likely be on vacation for 2 weeks.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

ypocat said:


> Ok been wondering where to post this, but since so many wheel builders appear to frequent this thread, and I do have these carbon rims, I will ask here......
> Not sure what spoke lengths to choose, given the calculator output vs the available sizes of DT Revolution which are in 2mm increments.......
> 
> So am I good going with 292mm?


Not sure if this helps, but Chad at Red Barn just built my LB wheels up with DT240s and DT Revs and he included the spoke length info, etc in the box. As many of you probably know Chad is a highly respected builder and has done up quite a few Chinese carbon builds from what he told me over the phone. Here's the info I have from the notes he included in the box...

Rims = Chinese 29er 32h (ERD = 601)
Hubs = DT Swiss 32H 100QR 135 QR
Flange Diameter - F = (L-58 R-42) & R = (L- 57 R-48)

Center to Flange
Front Left = 290
Front Right = 295
Rear Left = 291
Rear Right = 292


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The last set I built was the same DT 240 hubs with DT Revolution spokes. I used:
Front left 291
Front right 295
Rear left 292
Rear right 292
This was rounding down from spoke calc spreadsheet that I use which came out to:
Front left 291.2
Front right 295
Rear Left 292.5
Rear Left 292.6
The wheels came out perfect with the ends of the spokes around 1mm inside the nipples.


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

broadwayline said:


> Curious what the problem was? I just ordered some 38mm road wheels for use with rim brakes - have only used their rims brakeless or with disc in the past.


Both rims overheated and bulged at the brake track. It was a pretty scary failure on a high speed descent! they say the deeper rims are less likely to have this problem, but beware.



pwu_1 said:


> That's kind of strange. I had an issue with a 650B rim that I received from LB where a portion of the bead hook looked missing. I contacted Brian at LB and sent him some pictures. He had me mail the rim to an address in New York and once he got confirmation the defective rim was received I was sent a new rim within a week or two.
> If I were you I would e-mail them again and get a date from them and tell them if the rims do not ship by that date you want a refund.
> I would do it soon since Chinese New Year is coming up in a week and they'll most likely be on vacation for 2 weeks.


Still have not heard a peep from them. I've tried contacting them at both their sales and support email addresses. I think they screwed me.

Be careful with light-bicycle.com guys!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*Just wanted to throw this up...*

I rebuilt mine today ...w/ brass niplers...galvanic corrosion concerns, valid or not...whatev. And since I had them tore down, thought I'd throw them on a scale. Not nearly as light as I thought, but hey hey're stiffer than a 20 y.o. on 200mg of Viagra! 
Frt: LB wider and heavier 29er (433g), King LD, DT Swiss Comps 292mm, DT hex brass, 3X
RR: LB wider and heavier 29er (429g), King HD 142 (ss driveshell), DT Comps 292mm, DT hex brass, 3X

Pic taken w/o rim strip or valve...

Didn't really use my tension meter and just went by tone. If anyone's interested, I can slap the tension meter on them and get you some numbers. Used anti-seize for thread and nipler head lube...made for one quiet build session! Normally, I'd get creaking and popping when I side-load the wheel to unwind the nipler/spokes. This time, not a peep! I think I was able to get a bit higher tension w/ anti-seize also...the nipples didn't bind on the carbon/resin as much. I can't recall who on here said they used some chopsticks to apply anti-seize, but thanks for the idea! :thumbsup:

Edit: Harbor Freight scale (reads as CHEAP) so accuracy might be a bit suspect...


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Your welcome!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*You R da guy!*



yourdaguy said:


> Your welcome!


That was you? Yeah, that worked well! I hate that creaking/popping when I tension up a wheel...almost like you _have to_ tension at indexed points...and then it's not really tensioning, more like just twisting the spokes. The anti-seize seems to let the spokes _not_ wind up nearly as much and spin free of the nipples :thumbsup:

I was wondering what the hell I was going to do w/ all that anti-seize...$15 at an auto parts store got me 3 life-time supply of the stuff


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

ktm520 said:


> Before we get too excited, I wouldn't neccessarily chalk this one up soley to corrosion. Its hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the spoke was a few mm's short which puts the nipple purely in tension. Ideally (from what I've read  ), the spoke should protrude past the plane where it seats in rim so that it's loaded in both compression and tension. Looks like a tensile failure to me. Whether or not corrision was a contributing factor is debateable. Also very well possible that you got a couple of bad nipples.
> 
> Meltingfeather, call me out if I'm wrong here.


+1

And anodizing is done with Sulfuric acid, not caustic soda.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Pau11y: I have had my "jar" of anti-sieze for probably 10 years and it is still close to half full, but there are times when nothing else works. I recommend to use it on lug nuts since they often get "intimate" with alloy wheels and the time you need to remove them you often do not have an impact.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Copper or Nickel anti-seize? Any preferences?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> Pau11y: I have had my "jar" of anti-sieze for probably 10 years and it is still close to half full, but there are times when nothing else works. I recommend to use it on lug nuts since they often get "intimate" with alloy wheels and the time you need to remove them you often do not have an impact.


Yup, I'm using anti-seize _everywhere_ (liberally) that requires lubrication on parts that doesn't see constant rotation...on cars and bikes. But liberally is kinda subjective w/ anti-seize...it doesn't take much at all! And, it's amazing how quiet your bike becomes once you switch over to anti-seize vs grease on threaded parts! :thumbsup:

But be careful w/ the stuff around rugs...makes an awful mess! The only thing I've found that works is Oxyclean based rug cleaner.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

2002maniac said:


> Both rims overheated and bulged at the brake track. It was a pretty scary failure on a high speed descent! they say the deeper rims are less likely to have this problem, but beware.
> 
> Still have not heard a peep from them. I've tried contacting them at both their sales and support email addresses. I think they screwed me.
> 
> Be careful with light-bicycle.com guys!


Factory closed till after the 20th. Chinese New Year. Everyone closes at this time.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

I bought the 23.5mm wide carbon rims from Carbonality. Ran them tubeless for cyclocross. After a couple CX races I noticed a bulge around one rim and a crack on another. They were cracking at the valve hole. I emailed Jason, whom has been in this thread several times (I think someone rudely referred to him as a "shill" once) , and he took care of me immediately! Great service! I have two new rims coming, only had to pay like 20 bucks for shipping.

He said they were aware of the issue on that run of rims and they have since been beefed up, redesigned. I think I bought these back in June or July... Anyway, I'm bummed I have to rebuild them, that was PITA! Aluminum nips and Rev's just weren't playing nice. But, I'm pretty stoked on his service. I'll buy more stuff from him for sure! 650b frame and wheels will be next!


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

For those of you who arent following the ENVE Al nipple corrosion thread on the wheel forum, here is a picture. The guy paid $2700 for his set of wheels ($800 just for each rim) and ENVE pretty much said he is SOL. Ill take my light bicycles rims any day @ $160 each for the rims.


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## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

Rim hookless is worth? 

Send from Tapatalk via GalaxyTab


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## mackienz (Jan 29, 2011)

I know this has been in the thread, but i wasnt sure i was going to get some of these carbon wheels so I didn't take note of where it was but....Ihave a set of LB thinner 29 carbon wheels ordered expected to arrive in the next couple of days, and I want to do a stans tape Kind of tubeless. My question is.., what width tape should I use? And if anyone took note could they tell me where in the thread I can see this kind of info, I would be very greatful. I have read almost all of the pages here and am very thankful for all the great information


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

21mm tape and standard 26" rim strip. You can try the XC 29er rim strip, but I feel they fit too loose on the rim.


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## spaceharrier (Sep 27, 2011)

*light-bicycle.com "new process" 29er wheels*

Ordered these from light-bicycle.com 22nd January, USPS tried delivering them February 5th, actually got them on the 6th. Very good communication from Brian.


"Wider" 29" rim on new early 2013 mold/process
Novatec D711/D712 hubs
32 spoke
Alloy nipples
No decals

Without tape, skewers etc. weights come in at *696g front* and *840g rear*. Seem nice and true, quick ping test suggests pretty even spoke tension. I'll be running these with tubes.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

I just received my 29AM rims as well and they look great. Holes are perfectly round and smooth edges. Finishing was fantastic. I can't wait to try the rickers stickers I just received. They replace the liner and should save me about an additional ounce.

Yamon.


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## mackienz (Jan 29, 2011)

Thanks. i will try out some stans tape and see how it goes.


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

How many clicks or ratcheting stops, sometimes called points-of-engagement, does the rear Novatec D711/D712 hubs hub have during one freewheel revolution?

Thanks!


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Just picked mine up from USPS. These are new process, wider, "normal" weight 29er, 32h, matte - 385g/396g. Fit and finish looks really good. Bead hooks are perfectly smooth. Holes are all straight and smooth edged as well.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

botanicbiker said:


> Just picked mine up from USPS. These are new process, wider, "normal" weight 29er, 32h, matte - 385g/396g. Fit and finish looks really good. Bead hooks are perfectly smooth. Holes are all straight and smooth edged as well.


Put the two side by side and rotate them thru at least 90 degrees to see how flat they are :thumbsup:

Are these fab'd w/ the new process?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> Pau11y: I have had my "jar" of anti-sieze for probably 10 years and it is still close to half full, but there are times when nothing else works. I recommend to use it on lug nuts since they often get "intimate" with alloy wheels and the time you need to remove them you often do not have an impact.


So I was digging around on roadbikereview.com since they've adopted cf rims well before we did and came across these:
Titanium Bike Wheel Nipples - Bicycle Spoke Nipples | Titan Wheel Tech Bicycle Components

I'm not suggesting Ti nipples, but rather the use of anti-seize. Seems there is a legit precedence for the use of anti-seize to prep spokes/nipples!


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Put the two side by side and rotate them thru at least 90 degrees to see how flat they are :thumbsup:
> 
> Are these fab'd w/ the new process?


Yes, these were made with the new process.

I put them on our kitchen island counter, which I know is level. One is perfectly flat, the other has a small <16th" fluctuation.


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## spaceharrier (Sep 27, 2011)

spaceharrier said:


> Ordered these from light-bicycle.com 22nd January, USPS tried delivering them February 5th, actually got them on the 6th. Very good communication from Brian.
> 
> 
> "Wider" 29" rim on new early 2013 mold/process
> ...


So one minor initial concern: these are an absolute bastard to get tires onto. In fact, I haven't successfully managed to get my tires on (Small Block 8 rear, Ignitor front). Bent one Park tire lever getting the Ignitor on only to have pinched the tube, and wasn't able to get the SB8 all the way on -- and that's a tire that's mountable without levers on my old rims.

Definitely the hardest to mount rims I've owned. Any tips for things that aren't likely to damage the carbon?

*EDIT: The problem here was my technique. Once I followed the method suggested below (post #3280) the tires went on just fine.*


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Hmmm... mine weren't a problem. They were snug, but not any harder than any of my other rims. I'm running a Bontrater Jones XR1 on the rear (the square blocky one) and a WTB Werewolf LT 2.55. My Werewolf wouldn't seal up tubeless with Stan's tape alone reliably, but the Jones sealed up with a Bontrager rim strip, and it was snug, but not so snug I couldn't do it by hand.

My Bontrager Mustang 29er rim brake rims are a total bastard to get the tires on.



spaceharrier said:


> So one minor initial concern: these are an absolute bastard to get tires onto. In fact, I haven't successfully managed to get my tires on (Small Block 8 rear, Ignitor front). Bent one Park tire lever getting the Ignitor on only to have pinched the tube, and wasn't able to get the SB8 all the way on -- and that's a tire that's mountable without levers on my old rims.
> 
> Definitely the hardest to mount rims I've owned. Any tips for things that aren't likely to damage the carbon?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

botanicbiker said:


> Yes, these were made with the new process.


Any issue w/ getting tires on your? Seems someone else is having some problems getting tires on some rims that he received recently.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Hate to tell you but it is probably your technique. Put the tire inside the rim with bead on both sides of the rim. Start away from the valve on one side and work the bead on in both directions until you get to the valve area. While using your thumb, pull the bead tight as though you are trying to pull the last bit over and on. While doing this take the other hand and run it around the rim pushing the bead into the center of the rim. As you do this the thumb should be taking up the new slack you are making. Now that the bead is in the channel, use both thumbs to put the last bit over the rim edge. Do the same procedure with the other side. This side will be harder because you will really have to push to get the bead down in the channel since the other bead is already there and you will have to push it out of the way to some extent.
I showed a guy that had been a mountain biker for 10 years and done many tires this technique and he was shocked at how much easier it was than what he had been doing. These rims with tape are easy to get the tires on. With Bontrager rim strips they are moderately hard, but no where near the hardest.


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## spaceharrier (Sep 27, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> Hate to tell you but it is probably your technique. Put the tire inside the rim with bead on both sides of the rim. Start away from the valve on one side and work the bead on in both directions until you get to the valve area. While using your thumb, pull the bead tight as though you are trying to pull the last bit over and on. While doing this take the other hand and run it around the rim pushing the bead into the center of the rim. As you do this the thumb should be taking up the new slack you are making. Now that the bead is in the channel, use both thumbs to put the last bit over the rim edge. Do the same procedure with the other side. This side will be harder because you will really have to push to get the bead down in the channel since the other bead is already there and you will have to push it out of the way to some extent.
> I showed a guy that had been a mountain biker for 10 years and done many tires this technique and he was shocked at how much easier it was than what he had been doing. These rims with tape are easy to get the tires on. With Bontrager rim strips they are moderately hard, but no where near the hardest.


Actually I'm certainly _hoping_ it's my technique. I'll give what you describe a go.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

The other thought to consider is that your wheels were under-tensioned when they were built. I think I remember other people that bought the rims built up by the factory reporting that the tension was too low. 
I built up and tensioned my rims myself and noticed the tension went down once I mounted and inflated the tires. So, although they are very stiff laterally, they do have vertical compliance (which is nice for the ride). Increasing the tension on an under-tensioned wheel would make it smaller in diameter and easier to put on a tire. By how much, I honestly don't know. And I'm not advocating increasing the tension just for that reason, but am thinking that if you are having so much trouble putting on a tire it may be worth at least confirming proper spoke tension. 


Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2


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## botanicbiker (Mar 9, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Any issue w/ getting tires on your? Seems someone else is having some problems getting tires on some rims that he received recently.


Just mounted up a Racing Ralph (2.25) and a Nobbie Nic (2.35) easily and without a tire lever.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

I built up the rear and it built up really nicely and was very easy to get true. High tension was really easy to get, but I am a little concerned I built it with higher than optimal tension. By the time I checked it and had it done, the drive side was at 148. I know they specify 180 as the limit in tension, but 148 is higher than I have ever built a wheel with. Is there any downside to leaving it that high?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Haymarket said:


> I built up the rear and it built up really nicely and was very easy to get true. High tension was really easy to get, but I am a little concerned I built it with higher than optimal tension. By the time I checked it and had it done, the drive side was at 148. I know they specify 180 as the limit in tension, but 148 is higher than I have ever built a wheel with. Is there any downside to leaving it that high?


Wow. 32 spoke 3x?

What hubs, spokes and nipples? Any spoke prep?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Haymarket said:


> I know they specify 180 as the limit in tension, but 148 is higher than I have ever built a wheel with. Is there any downside to leaving it that high?


Yes. You've put unnecessarily high stress on the other components of the wheel.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

Adroit Rider said:


> Wow. 32 spoke 3x?
> 
> What hubs, spokes and nipples? Any spoke prep?


Hadleys with Sapim double butted (2.0/1.8) spokes and aluminum nipples. I used Never Seize on the threads and light oil in the spoke holes, like I usually do. 3x.


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## ErikGBL (Mar 26, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> Yes. You've put unnecessarily high stress on the other components of the wheel.


I also built my rear wheel with the same tension as Haymarket with similar setup (32 1.5 mm Pillar round spokes, 3x, Al nipples, DT Swiss 240S hubs).

So, what is the highest tension you recommend? .


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

It would be best to use normal tension with these rims. For one thing, there is no advantage to the higher tension. It won't make a noticeably stiffer wheel. In fact, wheel stiffness has almost nothing to do with tension as long as the spokes aren't loose. Also, there is the possibility of ripping the hub flange apart. I've personally witnessed that 3 times in my life. Ive also seen spokes ripped out of nipples and nipples pulled through rims. I can't say for sure that these failures happened due to too high of tension, but why take the chance? There really isn't a benefit to running higher tension.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

dfiler said:


> For one thing, there is no advantage to the higher tension.


The only advantage is the wheels propensity to stay true but this is associated to equal tension just as much as high tension (IMHO).

The rims design for high tension is based on lower spoke 2x configurations. Think Mavic Crossmax hubs, straight pull, 24 count.


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## ErikGBL (Mar 26, 2008)

dfiler said:


> It would be best to use normal tension with these rims. For one thing, there is no advantage to the higher tension. It won't make a noticeably stiffer wheel. In fact, wheel stiffness has almost nothing to do with tension as long as the spokes aren't loose. Also, there is the possibility of ripping the hub flange apart. I've personally witnessed that 3 times in my life. Ive also seen spokes ripped out of nipples and nipples pulled through rims. I can't say for sure that these failures happened due to too high of tension, but why take the chance? There really isn't a benefit to running higher tension.


So, how much would "normal" be on the drive side with my setup?

Jobst Brandt does not specify much about specific figures in his book and uses the tone to tune the wheel. Also Roger Musson claims that he does not use tensiometers and build his wheels from the tone, but he actually once mention a specific figure, 130 kgf, in his long text, "Professional Guide to Wheel Building" 5th Ed. page 60 : "The lowest tensioned wheels I build use lightweight ZTR rims with a recommended tension of 95 kg (930 N) and all other rims I build are 130 kg (1250 N) and each wheel perform fine". I assume 130 kgf is the *average *spoke tension _i.e._ average of left and right side. The rear wheel drive side will have much more (almost double) tension compared to the non-drive side to be correctly dished and with the Haymarket's 148 (kgf) on the drive side the average spoke tension will be well below 130 kgf. Or, have I misunderstood, is the spoke tension Roger (and Light Bicycle) talk about, the maximum spoke tension on any side of the wheel and not the average? This is a huge difference when we are talking about the rear wheel.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The rims are rated for very high tension, but that is not the only consideration. The hubs are also rated and I would bet at a somewhat lower tension and the spokes are also rated although they probably are almost as high as the rims. That said, you need to find the rating for your hubs and let that be your guide. If you can't find that, I generally shoot for 20 on the Park guage on the "tight" side. I generally end up with the highest readings around 18-20 and the other side will generally end up around 10-16 depending on the offset, flange height , etc. The most likely problem with building too high tension is the flange breaking.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> The rims are rated for very high tension, but that is not the only consideration. The hubs are also rated and I would bet at a somewhat lower tension and the spokes are also rated although they probably are almost as high as the rims. That said, you need to find the rating for your hubs and let that be your guide. If you can't find that, I generally shoot for 20 on the Park guage on the "tight" side. I generally end up with the highest readings around 18-20 and the other side will generally end up around 10-16 depending on the offset, flange height , etc. The most likely problem with building too high tension is the flange breaking.


I have sapim double butted (is it byooted or butt-ed?) and have about 24 on the drive side and 18 on the non drive side.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Regarding some hubs having a recommended max tension, as an example, here's an excerpt out of the Chris King hub manual:



> Wheel building
> [...] Disc brake wheels must be laced using a 3-or-more-cross lacing pattern. As the
> torque generated by driving the cassette requires crossed spokes, so does the
> additional torque on the non-drive side flange generated by the braking action.
> ...


Except from another part of the CK site:




> In rare cases, when the wheel has been built at very high tension, the large drive side bearing can become loose and cause creaking.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Mark, for later reading.


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

Note that a max tensile force rating of the rim for spokes is not the same as the advisable spoke tension when building the wheel.
A "normal" spoke tension is about 110 kgf for the rear drive side and left front (when using disc hubs). Going (much) higher should not be needed (unloaded spokes during use will not detension completely) and will not make a stiffer wheel (this has been discussed at length on this forum).


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## spaceharrier (Sep 27, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> Hate to tell you but it is probably your technique. Put the tire inside the rim with bead on both sides of the rim. Start away from the valve on one side and work the bead on in both directions until you get to the valve area. While using your thumb, pull the bead tight as though you are trying to pull the last bit over and on. While doing this take the other hand and run it around the rim pushing the bead into the center of the rim. As you do this the thumb should be taking up the new slack you are making. Now that the bead is in the channel, use both thumbs to put the last bit over the rim edge. Do the same procedure with the other side. This side will be harder because you will really have to push to get the bead down in the channel since the other bead is already there and you will have to push it out of the way to some extent.
> I showed a guy that had been a mountain biker for 10 years and done many tires this technique and he was shocked at how much easier it was than what he had been doing. These rims with tape are easy to get the tires on. With Bontrager rim strips they are moderately hard, but no where near the hardest.


OK, so it was indeed my technique -- what you suggested worked just fine. My (just now invented) excuse is that looking at the rim cross section the edges where the bead seats are wider and flatter than I'm used to. Think all my other rims in living memory have had steeper and narrower runs into the channel causing the bead to get pulled into it by itself when pulled on the opposite side.

So anyway, tucking the bead into the center channel by hand let these seat up without levers. Thanks.


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

Is anyone in the States building up custom wheels with the Chinese carbon rims? I don't want to deal with ordering, shipping and building them myself. Lazy, I know.


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## paul929 (Feb 10, 2013)

DeeZee said:


> I hope your results are better than mine......


Good luck with that junk.


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## Brisco Dog (Nov 5, 2009)

GlazedHam said:


> Is anyone in the States building up custom wheels with the Chinese carbon rims? I don't want to deal with ordering, shipping and building them myself. Lazy, I know.


bikeempowerment.com does. I just ordered the rims myself and had them shipped to Chad at Red Barn Bicycles to be built up.


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## mackienz (Jan 29, 2011)

I got my lb bike wheels a few days ago. They are thinner wheels 28 spoke front 32 rear novatec ds711 hubs. Total weight 1457. Dont have tires or a fork yet so cant really mount them up. But cosmetically they look amazing. Build quality looks great. am going to try and go tubeless using gorilla tape and maxxis ikons. Will post how it goes later


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> If you can't find that, I generally shoot for 20 on the Park guage on the "tight" side. I generally end up with the highest readings around 18-20 and the other side will generally end up around 10-16 depending on the offset, flange height , etc. The most likely problem with building too high tension is the flange breaking.


If you are going to throw out Park tension gauge readings, please list the spoke gauge also. One is meaningless without the other.

This has been beaten on many times. 110-120kgf seems to be the favorite for these rims.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Good point. I generally use DT Revolutions and wasn't thinking.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Uh... any bike shop willing to build with parts they didn't sell? I know my favorite LBS (Endless Cycles in Castro Valley, CA) is more than willing to build you some wheels.



GlazedHam said:


> Is anyone in the States building up custom wheels with the Chinese carbon rims? I don't want to deal with ordering, shipping and building them myself. Lazy, I know.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Spicer cycles Spicer Cycles-Track frames-Track Forks-Fixed Gear-Bike Parts-Frames-Bicycles. Evansville, IN 47714 (812)473-4104
He can order all the parts, build the wheels and ship them to you.


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

How many clicks or ratcheting stops, sometimes called points-of-engagement, does the rear Novatec D711/D712 hubs hub have during one freewheel revolution?

Thanks! 


mackienz said:


> I got my lb bike wheels a few days ago. They are thinner wheels 28 spoke front 32 rear novatec ds711 hubs. Total weight 1457. Dont have tires or a fork yet so cant really mount them up. But cosmetically they look amazing. Build quality looks great. am going to try and go tubeless using gorilla tape and maxxis ikons. Will post how it goes later


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

I think he's looking for shops that have prebuilt wheels in stock. He doesn't seem to want to deal with having to acquire all the parts and get them built.

"Uh... any bike shop willing to build with parts they didn't sell? I know my favorite LBS (Endless Cycles in Castro Valley, CA) is more than willing to build you some wheels. "


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Brisco Dog said:


> ...I just ordered the rims myself and had them shipped to Chad at Red Barn Bicycles to be built up.


 <--- This. Painless. Nancy at LB was more than happy to drop ship mine to Chad. Chad is super easy to work with and his rates are very reasonable. I received my wheels from Chad a couple weeks back and they are sweet. For more info pics, weights, details are approx. 5 pages back in this thread. (Post #3180)


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

MSH said:


> <--- This. Painless. Nancy at LB was more than happy to drop ship mine to Chad. Chad is super easy to work with and his rates are very reasonable. I received my wheels from Chad a couple weeks back and they are sweet. For more info pics, weights, details are approx. 5 pages back in this thread. (Post #3180)


Link here: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/cheap-chinese-carbon-rims-673410-80.html#post10103550


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## rvmdmechanic (Sep 18, 2008)

So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.

I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in the wider rims, or the "benefits" of the wider rims. I give absolutely ZERO ****s about the wider rims. So Please, spare the "lectures" on the nature of wider rims and tires and resistance. I am exceedingly well-versed in the nature of those topics.

I am simply interested in whether or not anyone has anything notable to say about the reliability of the NARROW rims being run tubeless, preferably with Stan's tape or gorilla tape.

THANKS


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

derby said:


> How many clicks or ratcheting stops, sometimes called points-of-engagement, does the rear Novatec D711/D712 hubs hub have during one freewheel revolution?
> 
> Thanks!


24 according to this review.

Ride It, Fix It: Novatec MTB Hubs Review


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

rvmdmechanic said:


> So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.
> I am simply interested in whether or not anyone has anything notable to say about the reliability of the NARROW rims being run tubeless, preferably with Stan's tape or gorilla tape.
> THANKS


Because you ask so nicely, these were my xc 29 LB rims. Perhaps they have been changed in the meantime..


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## RidnUphill (Oct 13, 2012)

Just thought I would share my light bicycle wheel and Novatec hub issues for the next guy....
I ordered the 29er wider 3K wheelset with the D711SB/D811SB hubs. If you want to convert the D711SB hubs for a 15mm RS maxle you need to remove the original axle (use the RS maxle instead) insert the Novatec crush sleeve between the bearings and add the correct Novatech 15mm end caps (correct may be tricky, I had to machine the ones I got).
The guys at the local bike shop here all got matte finish rims this summer. Half of them delaminated. Warranty covered them all. Word is 3K is the best. Sorry for repeating info, but 133 pages is a lot to read.


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## lobo7 (Mar 8, 2012)

XC rim tubeless experience with panaracer cx tire

I ordered a set of the XC or "narrow" 29er rims to use for this cross season. After easily being able to inflate and seal a tubeless setup with 1 layer of gorilla tape and a floor pump on my AM 29er rims I tried the same with the XC rims, very loose fit. I then tried two layers of GT, still very loose. Deciding I was beginning to add too much weight I went down to the lbs and bought the plastic bonty rim strips, they were a little snug width wise but I pressed them under the hook tightly with a tire lever. With a compressor I was then able to get them to seal and run tubeless at 30psi on a 700x32 non-ust cx tire. They ended up working fine but were much more of a pain than the AM rims. The XC set I ordered in August I would not consider Tubeless ready at all. The center channel is much deeper than the flatter, more even profile of the AM version. The Bonty strips helped fill that a bit.



rvmdmechanic said:


> So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.
> 
> I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in the wider rims, or the "benefits" of the wider rims. I give absolutely ZERO ****s about the wider rims. So Please, spare the "lectures" on the nature of wider rims and tires and resistance. I am exceedingly well-versed in the nature of those topics.
> 
> ...


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## lobo7 (Mar 8, 2012)

Forgive me if I've missed this but can someone explain the 'New Process' I keep seeing references too? What was changed, issues addressed, benefits?

Thx


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Interesting, thanks for posting the link.

Now if only they had done that high PSI testing prior to me blowing a rim apart, picking shrapnel from my leg, and cleaning stan's off of the ceiling. 

But in all seriousness, that looks like well executed, iterative engineering. Well done Light Bicycle!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

lobo7 said:


> Forgive me if I've missed this but can someone explain the 'New Process' I keep seeing references too? What was changed, issues addressed, benefits?
> 
> Thx


It's, "the customer-as-Q/C model is telling us something is wrong, so let's tweak some stuff and see if everything works out fine." Meanwhile money keeps rolling in...
The new batch of customers/Q/C should be an improvement over the last round. That's the definition of "iterative," isn't it? Testing, shmesting, if the guy with shrapnel in his leg from the first round is impressed, we're rockin'!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The guy with shrapnel in his leg blew up his rim by putting over 70 psi in the tire.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> The guy with shrapnel in his leg blew up his rim by putting over 70 psi in the tire.


You have a point, sir. Well played.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Well, here's yer problem.... 



yourdaguy said:


> The guy with shrapnel in his leg blew up his rim by putting over 70 psi in the tire.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Corrosion data point:
6 months
DT Swiss nipples
Stan's sealant
Bontrager strips sealed in with latex (remnant pealing off the bead in the photo)


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Corrosion data point:
> 6 months
> DT Swiss nipples
> Stan's sealant
> Bontrager strips sealed in with latex (remnant pealing off the bead in the photo)


Hard for me to tell from the photo alone - is the little bit of white early corrosion? The rest of the nipple and spoke look good. Are you posting/showing this as a warning that corrosion is starting or to show that it looks good?

If you are indeed seeing early worrisome corrosion, is there anything that can be done at the early stage to stop progression or will you be replacing the nipples?

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

albertdc said:


> Hard for me to tell from the photo alone - is the little bit of white early corrosion? The rest of the nipple and spoke look good. Are you posting/showing this as a warning that corrosion is starting or to show that it looks good?
> 
> If you are indeed seeing early worrisome corrosion, is there anything that can be done at the early stage to stop progression or will you be replacing the nipples?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2


Zero corrosion. I won't be doing anything but continuing to ride. :thumbsup:


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Zero corrosion. I won't be doing anything but continuing to ride. :thumbsup:


Awesome! :thumbup:
Can't wait for spring to put the skis away and bring out the RIP with the carbons. 

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks AZ' 


AZ.MTNS said:


> 24 according to this review.
> 
> Ride It, Fix It: Novatec MTB Hubs Review


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## slsl123 (Sep 15, 2004)

Looking for some opinions on spokes/lacing for these rims. I was going to use butted spokes like Sapim Lasers or DT Revos but heard that those weren't recommended for disc wheels. Also thinking of going 2x - some of the other carbon rim manufacturers recommend 2x. Looks like most folks are going 3x with a variety of different spokes - butted, straight and bladed. Any thoughts?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

slsl123 said:


> Looking for some opinions on spokes/lacing for these rims. I was going to use butted spokes like Sapim Lasers or DT Revos but heard that those weren't recommended for disc wheels.


They are fine for disc wheels.


slsl123 said:


> Also thinking of going 2x - some of the other carbon rim manufacturers recommend 2x. Looks like most folks are going 3x with a variety of different spokes - butted, straight and bladed. Any thoughts?


ENVE recommends 2x due to their nipple hole layup alignment. Not a consideration or issue with the Nancy rims. You can't go wrong with 3x and it provides a better tangential spoke angle for transmitting torque (braking & drive forces), but 2x works fine too.
This is a case where the opinions FAR outweigh any actual benifits or detriments from choosing one spoke or cross pattern over another.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

rvmdmechanic said:


> So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.
> 
> I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in the wider rims, or the "benefits" of the wider rims. I give absolutely ZERO ****s about the wider rims. So Please, spare the "lectures" on the nature of wider rims and tires and resistance. I am exceedingly well-versed in the nature of those topics.
> 
> ...


I've got the wider rims. They rock! You should get wider rims!!!


Sorry couldn't help myself....


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

reamer41 said:


> I've got the wider rims. They rock! You should get wider rims!!!
> 
> 
> Sorry couldn't help myself....


lol... I think that's called preemptive butt hurt. :yesnod:


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## mackienz (Jan 29, 2011)

Whatever wide lovers...theyre alive!! This is my narrow rimmed lb wheel. I used gorilla tape and at first I tried a maxxis ikon it didn't inflate. Luckily I can return it due to them sending me the Wrong model. I then got a specialized fast trak, which is tubeless ready, and it inflated easily.So it's all about which tire you use. I now regret I used gorilla tape as I think Stan's tape would work fine and it's light. Glad I didn't get the wide ones like aIl the other sheep, I Mean real Mountain bikers. these are so light and they re gonna fly.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mackienz said:


> Glad I didn't get the wide ones like aIl the other sheep, I Mean real Mountain bikers. these are so light and they re gonna fly.


Lol... your narrow rims with gorilla are heavier than wide ones with Stan's. I hope they don't slow you down too much. :thumbsup:
Let us know how that lateral flex the LB website talks about feels.


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## mackienz (Jan 29, 2011)

Haha. Almost but not quite. Will let you know how the flex goes


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Anyone hear from LB after their New Year?

Nancy seems MIA


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> Anyone hear from LB after their New Year?
> 
> Nancy seems MIA


I got an email from her yesterday.


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## Satanic Pizza (Feb 28, 2012)

China does have quite the problem with workers never coming back to the factories, so I hear.


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## simpy16 (Apr 18, 2012)

I hope this is okay. I have a set of the Bonty rim strips and valves that I was going to use but my builder taped them without asking me so I have no use for them anymore. Let me know if you are looking for a set of the Rhythm Pro 29er strips and we can try to work something out.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

simpy16; you might want to keep them a while and make sure the tires you are using don't burp with just the tape.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

does anyone know why carbon rim manufacturers don't use extremely impact resistant composites in the outer layer? For example Kevlar or spectra. They aren't much more expensive than most reg. Carbon fiber. I've used Kevlar in the carbon fiber frames I make for myself, and the only downside is that it fuzzes during sanding. It looks really cool and would almost eliminate all of the rim wall cracks


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

Maybe it is just not as marketable. If it is harder to use in production that wouldn't help either. Yeah, it is a bugger to cut, and some have told me more susceptible to breaking down in sunlight but that I don't know.  Most people want stiff/light so there may be limits on how much stuff they can use in a rim.


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## slsl123 (Sep 15, 2004)

lobo7 said:


> Forgive me if I've missed this but can someone explain the 'New Process' I keep seeing references too? What was changed, issues addressed, benefits?
> 
> Thx


I don't know if the "new process" rims will be an improvement over the "old process rims but if you have a preference you need to specify when you place your order according to Brian at LB. They are shipping out both new/old randomly right now. Mine just shipped yesterday and I will be receiving "old process" rims.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

xc biker said:


> does anyone know why carbon rim manufacturers don't use extremely impact resistant composites in the outer layer? For example Kevlar or spectra. They aren't much more expensive than most reg. Carbon fiber. I've used Kevlar in the carbon fiber frames I make for myself, and the only downside is that it fuzzes during sanding. It looks really cool and would almost eliminate all of the rim wall cracks


I'm not sure that an impact resistant layer would do any good for the kind of damage a carbon rim gets. The rim sees more crushing forces, like hitting a curb at speed, not damage like being hit by a flying rock. I can see that would be a good thing to add to the underside of a frame downtube or something, but I think it would just add weight to a rim.

Then again, I'm no composites engineer.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

slsl123 said:


> I don't know if the "new process" rims will be an improvement over the "old process rims but if you have a preference you need to specify when you place your order according to Brian at LB. They are shipping out both new/old randomly right now. Mine just shipped yesterday and I will be receiving "old process" rims.


I emailed LB about this and they didn't really answer my question as to the difference between the two processes. Sounds like they are still waiting to see how the new process rims are received by customers and how they hold up. Anyone got the new process rims and have any thoughts?

(answer from Nancy)

"Yes, we sell both the process for 29er wide rims currently, and most part are still with the past process. Because the testing for new process haven't been finished, and we like to know how the customers ride on new process rims. Then make a decision when to change all molds for new process. And for customers' riding test, it will take around a few months.
It is easy to see which rims are with new process, the serial number is "R02XXXXXXX". And for rims with the past process, it is with " R29C xxxxx"."


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## ViltusVilks (Feb 12, 2012)

Ordered road 38mm clinchers with DB hubs for my 29er. Seller said many used them in CX and no problems. Pic/review/weight will come soon


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

lokisare said:


> I emailed LB about this and they didn't really answer my question as to the difference between the two processes. Sounds like they are still waiting to see how the new process rims are received by customers and how they hold up. Anyone got the new process rims and have any thoughts?
> 
> (answer from Nancy)
> 
> ...


I am going to take a wild gues and say the new process is the same new process described for the 650b rims. Follow this link ... the new process seems better ...
Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

lokisare said:


> I emailed LB about this and they didn't really answer my question as to the difference between the two processes. Sounds like they are still waiting to see how the new process rims are received by customers and how they hold up. Anyone got the new process rims and have any thoughts?
> 
> (answer from Nancy)
> 
> ...


So.... Customer beta testing. Greeeeaaat. I guess that's why the are cheap. I dunno, I would volunteer for that.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

Ottoreni said:


> I am going to take a wild gues and say the new process is the same new process described for the 650b rims. Follow this link ... the new process seems better ...
> Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle


Thanks for that link, it makes the new process sound a lot better than the old process but I guess they haven't got it perfected yet... that's why they haven't switched over completely.

I'd be tempted to ask for new process rims although I guess there's a risk without them being extensively tested yet.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I received my new process rims a couple days ago. I have no other carbon rim to compare them to, but I can find no visual flaw.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

spsoon said:


> I received my new process rims a couple days ago. I have no other carbon rim to compare them to, but I can find no visual flaw.


have you weighed them? Interested to know if there's any weight difference.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I'll weigh them this weekend


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> So.... Customer beta testing. Greeeeaaat. I guess that's why the are cheap. I dunno, I would volunteer for that.


Volunteer=pay $360 like everyone else
Nobody's stopping you. Post up the test results.
:band:


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

lokisare said:


> have you weighed them? Interested to know if there's any weight difference.


They came in at 380 and 386g


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

spsoon said:


> They came in at 380 and 386g


Sweet so at the lower end of the weight range, keep us posted on your build and how it goes!


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## spain (May 29, 2005)

ViltusVilks said:


> Ordered road 38mm clinchers with DB hubs for my 29er. Seller said many used them in CX and no problems. Pic/review/weight will come soon


Waiting for!!


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

It would be interesting to see how many people are running carbon rims with inner tubes.....personally I think by running them tubeless, it increases the safety factor because you will know very quickly when the rim is starting to fail. I saw someone post that they installed a tube after their carbon hoops failed and could not tell they were broken. Running tubes is dangerous because when it does fail, it will be catastrophic.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

YaMon said:


> It would be interesting to see how many people are running carbon rims with inner tubes.....personally I think by running them tubeless, it increases the safety factor because you will know very quickly when the rim is starting to fail. I saw someone post that they installed a tube after their carbon hoops failed and could not tell they were broken. Running tubes is dangerous because when it does fail, it will be catastrophic.


Realistically though, you're a hundred times more likely to crash from a front tire tubeless burp than from a shattered rim that somehow fails worse with a tubular setup. I can't even remember all of the burp induced crashes, ending in injury, that I've personally witnessed. One guy even went off the side of a 30 foot cliff. Despite running tubeless on these rims myself, I consider it to be more dangerous, not safer.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Just trying to alleviate the "fear" people are posting about carbon rims. You don't hear about burp related crashes......


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have heard many accounts of burp crashes, but almost never heard of a "crash" related to a catastrophic carbon rim failure.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

For the sake of levity, I've never burped a Tubeless Ready tire while using a Bontrager rim strip.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Just responding to what I believe is the "fear" about going with these light-bicycle rims.... That would certainly solve it, but open up another can of worms......


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

YaMon said:


> It would be interesting to see how many people are running carbon rims with inner tubes.....personally I think by running them tubeless, it increases the safety factor because you will know very quickly when the rim is starting to fail. I saw someone post that they installed a tube after their carbon hoops failed and could not tell they were broken. Running tubes is dangerous because when it does fail, it will be catastrophic.


I am. I ran mine with Lunar Lite tubes for a while. I was having issues with getting my tubeless to seal up, and I wanted to ride. Meh... tubeless doesn't save any weight over a Lunar Lite anyway. I guess is saves a tiny amount of drag. I don't really get flats very often, so PITA factor is much bigger than the benefit for me.

I can't imagine at the pressures mountain bikes run that safety is much of an issue, or that it even makes a difference. Pressure is pressure, no mater if it is contained in a balloon or gooey sealant by the edges. It's not as if the tube is adding any actual structure.

BTW, I run 25-27 psi with tubes.

As far as safety goes, I've had my front tire suddenly burp out most of it's air right when I need it to stick the most, nearly sending me OTB on several different occasions. IMO, tubes are way safer. Whenever I ride my bike with the tubeless setup, I constantly have in the back of my mind the idea that it's gonna burp on me in the middle of a techy rocky section and dump me on my ass. I trust my carbon rims of mysterious construction and quality control way more than I trust tubeless.

Tubes just work. Hard to argue with that.

Oh, but one rub: Performance Bike discontinued Lunar Lite tubes for mountain bikes. Currently, their lightest is the .65mm thick 'Ultralite' one, not the 0.45mm LunarLite.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

The only time I ever burped a tire was tubeless 1.0 with Mavic 717/Stan's/Pythons. 

I have run Bontrager's system ever since starting with Race Modified's, then RXLs and finally the Light Bicycle with the Rhythm strip. 

I haven't worried about burping a tire in over eight years. 

I run 20psi front and 22psi rear with maxxis ikon, 165lbs.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Well I cannot imagine that the burping is occurring as often as same people may be indicating. I am assuming they are running way too low pressures. If the burping was such a major problem, they would not be selling as many and it would not be so popular. I run my rims tubed with 30 pounds, I feel very safe running tubeless at 25-30 pounds.

Back to the carbon rims, if you run them as a tubeless setup you should get advanced warning that the rim is damaged. It is unusual for carbon fiber to literally separate in two pieces. It usually starts with a crack .......


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

I have raced on mine at 19-20 psi (190lbs) in the snow and had no burping issues.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> If the burping was such a major problem, they would not be selling as many and it would not be so popular.


bulletproof logic
what level of popularity would allow for "major problem" burping and what level of popularity are they at now?


YaMon said:


> Back to the carbon rims, if you run them as a tubeless setup you should get advanced warning that the rim is damaged. It is unusual for carbon fiber to literally separate in two pieces. It usually starts with a crack .......


What if the rim cracks underneath a layer of tape? or under a rim strip? or underneath tape and a rim strip? or around a spoke hole?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

broadwayline said:


> I have raced on mine at 19-20 psi (190lbs) in the snow and had no burping issues.


Same results here........I have been running tubeless for years and it realy comes down to the tires. I run Special Ed 2Bliss on these rims and Stan's rims....work great!


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Well, I discovered something rather unfortunate this morning, a crack in my rear rim. I was actually about to come on here and give an update saying everything thus far has been great about the wheels, no problems whatsoever. I guess I can't say that anymore... I was just checking over my bike in my bike stand this morning when I discovered it. Who knows when it happened, could have been last ride could have been weeks ago. I have no clue. As far as I can recall I never bottomed out the rim but in their defense I do ride very aggressively, more so than my bike is really designed for. I've only had the wheels about two months but I can't imagine they would warranty this, it's pretty clearly done by myself. Now I just need to decide if I want to replace the rim with another carbon one or if I should just go back to aluminum... 
Pictures:





Will do a closer inspection of the rest of the rim and the front rim when I get off of work. In fact I need to leave for work... 2 minutes ago.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

They work with I9's...why dont you think they will work with yours?
.
.



Boudre0aux said:


> I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Make sure u don't bottom out! I mean if i read things about carbon frames cracking when they knock against rocks etc...


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

erikrc10 said:


> Well, I discovered something rather unfortunate this morning, a crack in my rear rim. I was actually about to come on here and give an update saying everything thus far has been great about the wheels, no problems whatsoever. I guess I can't say that anymore... I was just checking over my bike in my bike stand this morning when I discovered it. Who knows when it happened, could have been last ride could have been weeks ago. I have no clue. As far as I can recall I never bottomed out the rim but in their defense I do ride very aggressively, more so than my bike is really designed for. I've only had the wheels about two months but I can't imagine they would warranty this, it's pretty clearly done by myself. Now I just need to decide if I want to replace the rim with another carbon one or if I should just go back to aluminum...
> Pictures:
> 
> 
> ...


What have you got to lose??????call them.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> bulletproof logic
> what level of popularity would allow for "major problem" burping and what level of popularity are they at now?
> 
> Well judging by how many brands of rims tape and valves and liquid out there, not to mention the investment of tires, it would seem to me that there is more than a significant amount being sold. Tire companies would not invest in special molds unless they can recoup the cost. Your guess as to the total sales is as good as mine. But common sense tells you it is very significant.
> ...


You will never be able to satisfy every situation. So you look at the percentages. Even if it cracks at the spoke hole or valve, if it migrates, it will still give you more of an advance warning then if you do not have it. .....those road aero rims would give you more than ample warning. Take a look at the post below with the cracked rim, I think that would be a normal break.......


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

erikrc10 said:


> Well, I discovered something rather unfortunate this morning, a crack in my rear rim. I was actually about to come on here and give an update saying everything thus far has been great about the wheels, no problems whatsoever. I guess I can't say that anymore... I was just checking over my bike in my bike stand this morning when I discovered it. Who knows when it happened, could have been last ride could have been weeks ago. I have no clue. As far as I can recall I never bottomed out the rim but in their defense I do ride very aggressively, more so than my bike is really designed for. I've only had the wheels about two months but I can't imagine they would warranty this, it's pretty clearly done by myself. Now I just need to decide if I want to replace the rim with another carbon one or if I should just go back to aluminum...
> Pictures:
> 
> 
> ...


We're you running tubes? Or Kidd you setup tubeless?.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

If you remove the img tags those photos will not appear in every freakin post.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> We're you running tubes? Or Kidd you setup tubeless?.


Tubeless (see his post in this thread about Bonty rim strips & Nevegals).
Sometimes theories don't play out.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> You will never be able to satisfy every situation. So you look at the percentages. Even if it cracks at the spoke hole or valve, if it migrates, it will still give you more of an advance warning then if you do not have it. .....those road aero rims would give you more than ample warning. Take a look at the post below with the cracked rim, I think that would be a normal break.......


What percentages? From here it looks like more often than not tubeless does not give any indication of a cracked rim.
Why wouldn't the sealant seal a crack?
Not a bad thought, even if presented as fact/reality, it just doesn't play out based on the available evidence.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

sorry about your rim. I don't know if this is applicable for a big crack like that, but you can try to use the rim repair method that was mentioned before:
quote: "bandaid" method for rim repair.
1. Remove the tire and rim strip/rim tape. Clean off any residual sealant with soapy water.
2. Sand down the impacted area with a ~300 grit sandpaper. Get rid of some of the loose splinters of carbon and get a good look at what you are dealing with. Don't over sand things
3. Clean the sanded areas well, blow out all sanding debris with clean, dry compressed air, and then hose it down with isopropyl alcohol (IPA). Let the IPA flash off.
4. Look for delaminations, if you can push on the impact site and see layers moving around, that is a delamination. I used a thin pointy scribe to open up the delam's and squirt in a good low viscosity super glue, avoid the thick stuff, you want this to run and flow into the delaminations. I pressed things together after this with my fingers and the scribe (with nitrile gloves on) while the superglue was still wet to work the glue into the damaged area I then let this dry for about 10 minutes. 
5. Resand the impacted area you just super glued again with a ~300 grit sandpaper. You need to abraid the surface so the next layer of adhesive has something to hold onto.
6. Blow out the sanding debris with clean, dry air, hose it down with IPA and let if flash off.
7. Mix up a small amount of epoxy/adhesive, I prefer something that has a 60-90 minute working time so I can do steps 8-10 a couple times with the same batch of mixed adhesive, but can have the cure accelerated with a little heat if desired as well.
8. I used teflon tape and teflon release film to make a little flap I could cover the entire impact area with, then applied the adhesive, put the flap over the area and tried to make it smooth and wrinkle free
9. I then clamped a flexibly sheet of silicon rubber over the impact area, set it in front of a hot halogen lamp for 30 minutes to mostly cure the adhesive.
10. Remove clamp, remove the silicon rubber, peel open teflon flap, look to see if the adhesive flowed into the impact and needs a little more applied. If no more is needed, move on, if more is needed, repeat steps 5-9 with another thin coat.
11. Let adhesive cure at least overnight, or under the heat lamp for another hour or so. Be careful not to use too hot of a lamp, most epoxy resins have a glass transition temperature (Tg) in the 250-300F range, and you could damage the rim if you get hotter than this for prolonged periods of time. Keep it in the 125-150F range ideally. You should be able to hold a finger on the rim under the heat lamp for 3-5 seconds without burning yourself, or use a digital meat thermometer, etc... to see where you are at.
12. Sand as much excess adhesive away, Start with 300-grit and work your way down to 600 or 1000 grit to make it pretty, but use caution not to sand into the carbon surrounding the impact area. Too thick of a patch is more likely to crack and fail than a nice thin layer.
13. Ride and report back. Get enough people trying these bandaids and we can refine things. 
And keep in mind, these are bandaid solutions. They require you to keep an eye on them, and may need to be redone if the bond is too thick and cracks. And sometimes bandaids can't fix things "good enough".
-like I said, I don't know if this will work for a crack that big, but its worth a try


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Yeah, I forgot to mention that, I was running tubeless. I usually tried to keep the rear at 24 psi. Weighing less than 145 lbs geared up I figured that would be plenty. Like I said though I do ride aggressively, I tend to seek out the toughest and most technical route down the mtn. 
I gave the rest of the rim, and the front rim, a relatively thorough inspection and I saw no other signs of cracking. 
I'll send Nancy (or should I send Brian?) an email when I get chance seeing if there is anything they can do. If not I will certainly give the bandaid method try. Thanks btw, xc biker, I very much appreciate it. Part of me wants to just say screw it and ride it like it is until it fails... That's undoubtedly a recipe for disaster, but I don't think it happened on my last ride which has quite a few large drops and rocky sections. So who knows how long it will last. Even with the crack the rim is just as true as the day I got it. 
I will make sure to keep you guys updated on what I decide to do.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> Xiamen BECS Carbon Fiber Parts Industry Co., Ltd
> 
> Same company
> 
> They refuned my $$ minus shipping.


BECS Xiamen and light-bicycle are two completely different companies. You need to check on this before reporting bad information. However, Nancy that works at light-bicycle now did work for BECS last year before moving to light- bicycle.

Those of you that have dealt with Chinese companies in the past, know that similar industries are often located in the same area. It is not unusuall to find an entire town devoted to manufacturing doors........several different companies, sometimes in the same building.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

YaMon said:


> BECS Xiamen and light-bicycle are two completely different companies. You need to check on this before reporting bad information. However, Nancy that works at light-bicycle now did work for BECS last year before moving to light- bicycle.
> 
> Those of you that have dealt with Chinese companies in the past, know that similar industries are often located in the same area. It is not unusuall to find an entire town devoted to manufacturing doors........several different companies, sometimes in the same building.


+1 this is truth.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

YaMon said:


> It is not unusuall to find an entire town devoted to manufacturing doors........several different companies, sometimes in the same building.


Not too mention several wholesale/trading companies located in the same office building/office park.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

ms6073 said:


> Not too mention several wholesale/trading companies located in the same office building/office park.


Yes, it is important to actually visit the factory if you are going to place a big order. Sometimes they show a big factory on the brochure and when you go to check them out you find they are middlemen with a warehouse.....

I actually have a friend that lives in Shanghai and have asked them to check to see if light- bicycle is an actual manufacturer. I will post my finding when they check.......


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

YaMon said:


> What have you got to lose??????call them.


... and failing that, repair them. Do a search on how to repair carbon fiber parts. There was somebody here who fixed their rims. IIRC, it was pretty easy. That's one of the nice things about carbon stuff. Not sure I would try it with bars or a road bike fork, but I would do a rim.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Does anybody in the states have ONE new wide rim they'd like to sell ? PM me if you do. thanks !

32 HOLE BTW !


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

92gli said:


> Does anybody in the states have ONE new wide rim they'd like to sell ? PM me if you do. thanks !


How many spoke holes?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Dirty $anchez said:


> For the sake of levity, I've never burped a Tubeless Ready tire while using a Bontrager rim strip.


Ditto...


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

Looks like it's a no go on the warranty, just as expected, they offered a replacement rim at full price... I'll try the "bandaid" method here in a few days when I get a chance. I'm hoping that works. I just a killer offer on a Norco Range Killer B so I'm trying to get this bike up for sale as soon as possible but I don't want to do so with miss matching wheels. Last time I was about to sell this bike I tacoed the front wheel, I'm not liking this trend.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

erikrc10 said:


> Looks like it's a no go on the warranty, just as expected, they offered a replacement rim at full price... I'll try the "bandaid" method here in a few days when I get a chance. I'm hoping that works. I just a killer offer on a Norco Range Killer B so I'm trying to get this bike up for sale as soon as possible but I don't want to do so with miss matching wheels. Last time I was about to sell this bike I tacoed the front wheel, I'm not liking this trend.


I'm sure you'll mention the band aid when you sell.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> I'm sure you'll mention the band aid when you sell.


Yes, I most certainly will. I also plan to include the original rear that came with the bike. I'll make sure to get a few rides on it first to see how it holds up before I put it up for sale. But I will clearly state the crack in the rim.


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## devintl (Mar 9, 2013)

Ton's of products are made in China, it just sucks when they don't live up to expectations and qc standards. Erickrc10, thanks for giving us a head up!


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

devintl said:


> Ton's of products are made in China, it just sucks when they don't live up to expectations and qc standards. Erickrc10, thanks for giving us a head up!


If you want replacement with no questions asked, then buy Enve at $900 each. I don't know the op and he did to indicate what pressure he was running, but if you take a close look at the damage it was caused by an impact. The sidewall is pushed in.....it absolutely blows my mind when some of the guys on this forum are running less than 25 pounds of pressure. What do you expect ? I run mine 25-30 and have not had anyproblems. I also weight 160 pounds. It would be interesting to know what the op runs....

Also, try getting raceface and crook brothers to warranty anything......


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## jbone619 (Aug 11, 2011)

My first post. I've been lurking for a while and was interested in these rims from LB. I actually read every post before deciding to give these a try. I just received my AM 29 rims in the 3K finish. Rims only, and not the wide version. They arrived the other day and they were visually perfect. weights were 368 and 370. I was very happy with that. I gave them to my wheel builder. These are the first LB carbon wheels he has built. He said these were very true and spoke tension was perfectly even all the way around. 

I know nothing about building wheels, but he was very impressed. The build was with DT Swiss 240s hubs, DT Swiss Competition spokes, and DT Swiss brass nipples. (To avoid the potential for corrosion I read about). The total weight for the rear wheel was 854g. I could have used lighter spokes and nipples, but my builder recommended these and said the rims would be able to handle just about anything. He still has the front wheel. I'll post the weight when I get it back. My guess is it will be 750g because the only difference is the hub. The front is about 100g lighter. So the entire wheelset will be about 1600g. Could be lighter, but I weigh 200 lbs and didn't want to push it. This will save me about 526g off my factory set on my 2012 Scott Scale Expert (Hardtail). 

My experience with LB was exceptional during every step. I always chose to communicate via the live chat option on the website during their working hours. It was very easy. 

I can't wait to ride on them. I was able to set them up tubeless using the Bontrager rim strip and Racing Ralphs with Stans liquid. They sealed up with my floor pump, which I have never been able to do with my old rims. I heard the satisfying pops when I was inflating to know the beads had locked into place. 

If my experience and product is normal, I can say don't hesitate. These things are awesome. I'll post again after I get a few miles on them.

Jason


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## figo (Jan 23, 2004)

I've been on my set (Hyperlefty, Powertap, Cx-rays and american classic alu nipples) since early 2012 and thru have been perfect. 

Did a full check this winter and all was as it was when I built them, no nipple corrosion and all spokes up to tension. Few minor scratches from rock or other things hitting them. I've been so impressed I've ordered a second pair for my enduro bike, this time the reinforced model.

Any rim can be damaged easily, just ride it against a sharp object at speed with low tire pressure, so that kind of damage has never been a measure of quality for me. Some issues around spoke holes as mentioned earlier in the thread was a worry for me, unfounded in my case.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

devintl said:


> Ton's of products are made in China, it just sucks when they don't live up to expectations and qc standards. Erickrc10, thanks for giving us a head up!


Like YaMon said, this is not really a quality control issue. The crack was pretty clearly caused by me which is why I am not upset by them not warrantying the rim. If the crack occurred along the seem then it might be a different story but you can clearly see where the seem is and that's not it. I'm not really sure what I expected though, I've dented most rear wheels I've owned. Next time I buy new wheels in gonna pony up for a set of i9s (not that they won't dent, I'm just thinking out loud). 
I would still whole heartedly recommend LB rims, just not if you are an aggressive rider that encounters a lot of rocks.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

erikrc10 said:


> Like YaMon said, this is not really a quality control issue. The crack was pretty clearly caused by me which is why I am not upset by them not warrantying the rim. If the crack occurred along the seem then it might be a different story but you can clearly see where the seem is and that's not it. I'm not really sure what I expected though, I've dented most rear wheels I've owned. Next time I buy new wheels in gonna pony up for a set of i9s (not that they won't dent, I'm just thinking out loud).
> I would still whole heartedly recommend LB rims, just not if you are an aggressive rider that encounters a lot of rocks.


Thanks Erikrc10 for clearing that up. I have a set that is at 30 pounds right now. I am 160 pounds in weight. Knowing what happens to carbon when it hits a sharp/solid ibject, I don't think I will be running pressures below 25. I also ride mostly in Florida, it would be a different situation if I rode where there were lots of rocks. One place here I have to be very careful of is the G-Outs we have on many of our trails due to it's mining history. Very steep 20-30 foot drops with a similarly steep incline after bottoming out. Puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the wheels, but FUN!!!


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

I had a bad experience with LB for wheels and a 29er frame, and would like to avoid them. Anyone with good experience with another similar manufacturer/seller of cheap carbon 29er wheels?
Thanks


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

YaMon said:


> Thanks Erikrc10 for clearing that up. I have a set that is at 30 pounds right now. I am 160 pounds in weight. Knowing what happens to carbon when it hits a sharp/solid ibject, I don't think I will be running pressures below 25. I also ride mostly in Florida, it would be a different situation if I rode where there were lots of rocks. One place here I have to be very careful of is the G-Outs we have on many of our trails due to it's mining history. Very steep 20-30 foot drops with a similarly steep incline after bottoming out. Puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the wheels, but FUN!!!


just FYI, Im 165lbs and live in Austin. Our trails have a lot of limestone rocks with trail names like "cheesegrater". I run my LB rims at 20 psi and havent had any problems (yet). My cranks are beat to hell, bash ring is gouged, bottom bracket took some nasty hits until I put a protector on it, the wheels are definitely heavily scratched but no cracks in 7 months of riding about 30 miles/week.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

I just ordered a pair of wheels for LB today. Wide 29", 3k gloss, 32 spoke D881/D882 with 15mm front / 10mm rear thru axles. Black hubs, spokes and nipples. 

15 day lead time. I'll post up some weights and pictures when they arrive.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

I am running them on my 29er race bike with 0 issues at 190lbs and hard aggressive riding / jumps / rocks over 1500km including riding a blue DH trail and riding with a bunch of spokes hand tight at one point.

Their 88mms on my track/street bike all winter with no issues for 950km of city riding / curb drops / pothole smashes.

Just received 38mm road wheels for my CX bike.

Am discussing extra strong 26" DH wheels with Brian right now to run on my Kona Operator DH which I ride on lift access DH trails 

No issues yet, I have had some rim smashes on them that would of destroyed my old Stans Crest wheels without a doubt.


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## rwitte (Apr 6, 2004)

Anyone have difficulty with the Bontrager valve in these rims? I've been on another set of this combo (LB rim/Bontrager strip/valve) for months and they have been flawless, including the tubeless set-up. Doing some new ones, and they are leaky at the valve-hole like crazy. Not sure what's going on. Tried a layer of gorilla tape just over the valve hole and couple inches either way from it, then the strip back over it. Didn't seem to help. Anyone else have similar issues and come upon a solution. Thinking about trying a Stans valve as the next step.


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

rwitte said:


> Anyone have difficulty with the Bontrager valve in these rims? I've been on another set of this combo (LB rim/Bontrager strip/valve) for months and they have been flawless, including the tubeless set-up. Doing some new ones, and they are leaky at the valve-hole like crazy. Not sure what's going on. Tried a layer of gorilla tape just over the valve hole and couple inches either way from it, then the strip back over it. Didn't seem to help. Anyone else have similar issues and come upon a solution. Thinking about trying a Stans valve as the next step.


Yeah I had problems with the Bontrager valves sealing. Nothing I did seemed to get them to stop leaking. Switched to Stans valves and everything sealed right up.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

argibson said:


> I had a bad experience with LB for wheels and a 29er frame, and would like to avoid them. Anyone with good experience with another similar manufacturer/seller of cheap carbon 29er wheels?
> Thanks


I can't offer a review of these people, but you may like to look at their site: YISHUNBIKE Manufacturer-Pro carbon wheels, Pro carbon frames, Pro carbon rims, Pro carbon components

Perhaps you can dig up some reviews once you have their name.


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

Hi, I do not care about looks, just strength. My eyes are starting to glaze over these pages. Dear people who live and breathe this stuff. Is the matte, 12k or 3k the Strongest. If you are in S Florida I will buy you a Beck's as a sign of appreciation for your input.

John V
Miami FL


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

jvossman said:


> Hi, I do not care about looks, just strength. My eyes are starting to glaze over these pages. Dear people who live and breathe this stuff. Is the matte, 12k or 3k the Strongest. If you are in S Florida I will buy you a Beck's as a sign of appreciation for your input.
> 
> John V
> Miami FL


Their is no difference in strength. The 3m, 12m and ud is all cosmetic.

If you want stronger they can add additional carbon fiber and resin, usually adds about 20 grams.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

argibson said:


> I had a bad experience with LB for wheels and a 29er frame, and would like to avoid them. Anyone with good experience with another similar manufacturer/seller of cheap carbon 29er wheels?
> Thanks


Care to elaborate on your experiences ?...


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

rwitte said:


> Anyone have difficulty with the Bontrager valve in these rims? I've been on another set of this combo (LB rim/Bontrager strip/valve) for months and they have been flawless, including the tubeless set-up. Doing some new ones, and they are leaky at the valve-hole like crazy. Not sure what's going on. Tried a layer of gorilla tape just over the valve hole and couple inches either way from it, then the strip back over it. Didn't seem to help. Anyone else have similar issues and come upon a solution. Thinking about trying a Stans valve as the next step.


Keep in mind that any leakage anywhere through or around the rim strip will probably exit the rim at the valve hole since the other holes are plugged with nipples. So it's possible your leak isn't at the valve itself.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

spsoon said:


> Keep in mind that any leakage anywhere through or around the rim strip will probably exit the rim at the valve hole since the other holes are plugged with nipples. So it's possible your leak isn't at the valve itself.


I agree with your post, probably need to pull the old tape and apply new Stans or Gorilla tape all around.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Epic_Dude said:


> I agree with your post, probably need to pull the old tape and apply new Stans or Gorilla tape all around.


forget gorilla. that stuff is junk (as a tubeless bicycle rim tape).


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

argibson said:


> I had a bad experience with LB for wheels and a 29er frame, and would like to avoid them. Anyone with good experience with another similar manufacturer/seller of cheap carbon 29er wheels?
> Thanks


I sent you a PM regarding this.


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## sayrd (Mar 12, 2013)

Debating on upgrading my '11 Trek Marlin 29er to a "chiner" aka chinese carbon frame or a better wheelset. ~$400 budget. Any helpful feedback on which would be more bang for buck in comparison to lightening the bike faster and hopefully make me a bit quicker. I have reviewed numerous forums about frames, but have yet to find a set of carbon rims or wheels that fall into the price range and are known to be from a reliable seller. Any helpful feedback would be beneficial.


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

sayrd said:


> I have reviewed numerous forums about frames, but have yet to find a set of carbon rims or wheels that fall into the price range and are known to be from a reliable seller. Any helpful feedback would be beneficial.


You've come to the right place. light-bicycle . com makes some very good rims. I am waiting for my 650s. There are other carbon rim makers, and LB posts in this forum and stands behind their product.


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## rwitte (Apr 6, 2004)

spsoon said:


> Keep in mind that any leakage anywhere through or around the rim strip will probably exit the rim at the valve hole since the other holes are plugged with nipples. So it's possible your leak isn't at the valve itself.


Thanks guys. Think I'll start with just trying Stans valves and see if that works. If not, then a layer of Stans tape will be in order.


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## texancyclist (May 1, 2012)

The picture to text ratio in this tread is terrible. I need to see some wheels..new, used, abused, whatever!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Wheels are a much better bang for the buck improvement since they are rotating mass. Also, the stiffness increase in the wheels can't be equaled in a frame upgrade.


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## sayrd (Mar 12, 2013)

Anyone have any suggestions on the best wheelset to purchase for under $400?


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

I just received a pair of pre-built 38mm clinchers for my cross bike, they came in at 1298g complete with novatech hubs - I'm impressed with the quality, spoke tensions were all good also!


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## ViltusVilks (Feb 12, 2012)

broadwaylin, can you give link?

Today i also received my 38 carbon clinchers with Novatech hubs. Actual weight 1615g


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

sayrd said:


> Anyone have any suggestions on the best wheelset to purchase for under $400?


I think that should be it's own thread. But, these carbon rims... You're into about $360 a pair for the hoops alone with shipping, and you gotta buy spokes, nipples and hubs.... and that's if you're going to build them yourself. Unless you own all of the other parts, and are planning to lace them yourself, you're gonna easily blow over your $400 budget.

Bang for buck, my favorite metal rim is the Sun Inferno 23 for XC use. I got one from my LBS for $45, which I think is list price, but IMO well worth it. It's light (for a metal rim... 460g), stiff and has eyelets and a welded seam. It's not very wide, but the same as just about the same ~20mm inside as any XC grade rim out there. Those laced up with newer XT hubs and DB spokes can be built for under $275, I would think. Add more cash for blingier hubs.

But, the Light-Bicycle AM 29er rims are under 400g, stiffer and much wider. :thumbsup:


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

texancyclist said:


> The picture to text ratio in this tread is terrible. I need to see some wheels..new, used, abused, whatever!


True.

I took pics of my rims before I built them, way back in May 2012, but never took pics of the completed wheels. I'll have to remember to take some pix.









Check out how much wider they are than a Stan's Crest rim... and almost as light, and way stiffer, I can tell you that.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yea they are wider, but the inside diameter and the way it holds the bead works out to the tire being exactly the same width. I have measured the exact tire moved from a Crest rim to a LB wide rim with the exact pressure, and also if you measure the distance on the inside it is close but Stans rims actually grab less sidewall. ON the other hand, I have blown a tire completely off a Crest rim by hitting a berm a little hard and I don't think I could ever blow a tire off one of these rims with a Bontrager rim strip.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> I think that should be it's own thread.


It has been... probably 100 times... and he'll *never* get there with carbon rims.
Some questions are better left ignored.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

ViltusVilks said:


> broadwaylin, can you give link?
> 
> Today i also received my 38 carbon clinchers with Novatech hubs. Actual weight 1615g


I will take photos tonight for you - It looks like you have disc compatible hubs where as I have non-disc hubs, but that should not cause a 320g difference!

Mine are 20h front and 24h rear


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

rwitte said:


> Thanks guys. Think I'll start with just trying Stans valves and see if that works. If not, then a layer of Stans tape will be in order.


FWIW I had the best luck with Specialized stems.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Anyone here received the new process 29er rims yet? I put my order in and Brian said they've shipped about 200 29er rims with the new process so far. He said the ERD is the same between old and new process but I was just wondering if anyone here received the rims and can verify what they measured the ERD out to be.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I measured mine at 603mm with Sapim Polyax nipples.

The only issue I've found with my "new process" rims is some of the spoke holes seem a bit under-sized, making the nipple a pretty tight fit. Does anyone know what size they should be? ie. Is there a standard spoke hole diameter? I don't have an unlaced rim handy to measure.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

spsoon said:


> I measured mine at 603mm with Sapim Polyax nipples.
> 
> The only issue I've found with my "new process" rims is some of the spoke holes seem a bit under-sized, making the nipple a pretty tight fit. Does anyone know what size they should be? ie. Is there a standard spoke hole diameter? I don't have an unlaced rim handy to measure.


I already have 3 sets of the LB rims(1 set in each size) and I had the same issue with the 29er rims that I received in Nov/Dec 2012 so I doubt it has anything to do with the process. 
Pretty sure the holes are drilled after the rim is complete so new/old process should not change hole diameter.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Yes, it makes sense that the holes are the same as the old process. Did you do anything to fix yours? I'm thinking of drilling mine out a little bigger. I'd appreciate if anyone can measure the holes on a regular eyeletted rim.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

spsoon said:


> Yes, it makes sense that the holes are the same as the old process. Did you do anything to fix yours? I'm thinking of drilling mine out a little bigger. I'd appreciate if anyone can measure the holes on a regular eyeletted rim.


Nah they all eventually fit. Made tensioning slightly harder. 
That reminds me though. I'm going to e-mail Brian and let him know about this...


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I would think long and hard about redrilling. There are specific ways to drill carbon and keep it strong.


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

Anyone know the ERD on these LB Carbon rims?


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

Does anyone know the ERD on the LB rims?


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## ekcyclops (Mar 13, 2013)

Yikes, that is ugly.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

jay_ntwr said:


> Anyone know the ERD on these LB Carbon rims?





spsoon said:


> I measured mine at 603mm with Sapim Polyax nipples.
> 
> The only issue I've found with my "new process" rims is some of the spoke holes seem a bit under-sized, making the nipple a pretty tight fit. Does anyone know what size they should be? ie. Is there a standard spoke hole diameter? I don't have an unlaced rim handy to measure.


...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> I would think long and hard about redrilling. There are specific ways to drill carbon and keep it strong.


My rims look like they were drilled by an 8 year old. I doubt somebody who gives a f**k would do much worse.


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

spsoon said:


> I measured mine at 603mm with Sapim Polyax nipples.
> 
> The only issue I've found with my "new process" rims is some of the spoke holes seem a bit under-sized, making the nipple a pretty tight fit. Does anyone know what size they should be? ie. Is there a standard spoke hole diameter? I don't have an unlaced rim handy to measure.





pwu_1 said:


> I already have 3 sets of the LB rims(1 set in each size) and I had the same issue with the 29er rims that I received in Nov/Dec 2012 so I doubt it has anything to do with the process.
> Pretty sure the holes are drilled after the rim is complete so new/old process should not change hole diameter.


I assume that spsoon is talking about Carbonal rims and NOT LB rims. Both are different factories. I currently am using Carbonal's first batch of the rim and it was a major disaster. I hope the improvised model is better.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

It became a pretty light rim, 3K matte 28H 29 er 27.4mm wide rim.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

FireSpitter said:


> I assume that spsoon is talking about Carbonal rims and NOT LB rims. Both are different factories. I currently am using Carbonal's first batch of the rim and it was a major disaster. I hope the improvised model is better.


I am glad you brought this up....China is a huge country with many manufacturers. Please, please whenever you post, please indicate the name of the company's products you are talking about.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

FireSpitter said:


> I assume that spsoon is talking about Carbonal rims and NOT LB rims. Both are different factories. I currently am using Carbonal's first batch of the rim and it was a major disaster. I hope the improvised model is better.


I have the LB wide 29er rims made with the new process.


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

Dirty $anchez said:


> ...


Thanks for the update. I did a search on ERD in the thread and couldn't find anything. It seems like since the MTBR update, searches really don't work as well as they used to. I can't find a lot of the stuff that I've been able to find in the past.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Just talked with Nancy at LB. I forgot to ask if I was getting the new process rims or the old. Seems like the new process is still in "testing" and it would've taken an extra two weeks before they could even start building mine. So I stuck with the old process.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

jay_ntwr said:


> Thanks for the update. I did a search on ERD in the thread and couldn't find anything. It seems like since the MTBR update, searches really don't work as well as they used to. I can't find a lot of the stuff that I've been able to find in the past.


BOOM!

Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) Light-Bicycle

Right there, 603mm claimed. I think mine were in there. I replaced a DT Swiss X470 rim (crap) and I just re-used the same spokes. It built up perfectly. I guess it couldn't hurt to double check it when you get the rims. FWIU, the assembly process of these rims would make it really hard to allow any changes in the spoke bed diameter. It starts out as a carbon band hoop center bit from a mold, and then they add layers on and around that piece to build the shape of the rim up.


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## rondigs (Nov 23, 2008)

jay_ntwr said:


> Does anyone know the ERD on the LB rims?


Jay their website lists the wider 29" carbon ERD at 603mm

Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) Light-Bicycle


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

jay_ntwr said:


> Thanks for the update. I did a search on ERD in the thread and couldn't find anything. It seems like since the MTBR update, searches really don't work as well as they used to. I can't find a lot of the stuff that I've been able to find in the past.


the best way to search mtbr is to go to google and search
"keywords site:forums.mtbr.com"


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

FireSpitter said:


> I assume that spsoon is talking about Carbonal rims and NOT LB rims.


Why? It is Light-bicycle that has described a new process which has been discussed in this thread.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

spsoon said:


> Yes, it makes sense that the holes are the same as the old process. Did you do anything to fix yours? I'm thinking of drilling mine out a little bigger. I'd appreciate if anyone can measure the holes on a regular eyeletted rim.


I did a search and the hole size is a 6.5mm. Good luck in finding that size drill bit...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> I did a search and the hole size is a 6.5mm. Good luck in finding that size drill bit...


He said he wanted to make them a little bigger. If he goes to 7mm that's almost exactly 3/8"


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

6.5 drill bits are readily available for less than $5.
https://www.google.com/search?q=6.5...n=1&emsg=NCSR&noj=1&ei=9ydDUd65NbOLyQHG4oGwCw


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

I think he is talking about the hole that the spokes goes through, not the hole you drop the nipple into. It can't be 6.5mm, that's bigger than the nipple.

I contacted LB about this and they told me that they were aware of this problem and they have upped the diameter of the hole from 4.1mm to 4.3mm


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> I think he is talking about the hole that the spokes goes through, not the hole you drop the nipple into. It can't be 6.5mm, that's bigger than the nipple.
> 
> I contacted LB about this and they told me that they were aware of this problem and they have upped the diameter of the hole from 4.1mm to 4.3mm


Seems odd. I would hope their 8 year old wheel builder would recognize the issue when assembling the pre builds.

Or maybe they don't have any QA?

I would demand a warranty replacement.


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

rondigs said:


> Jay their website lists the wider 29" carbon ERD at 603mm
> 
> Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) Light-Bicycle


Thanks, Ron. I don't know how I missed it there. I even looked and still missed it. No worries, though. Thanks for providing it to me.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> My rims look like they were drilled by an 8 year old. I doubt somebody who gives a f**k would do much worse.





neg rep from dfiler said:


> no need to insult a legitimate company unless you have evidence that they use child labor


huh? ut:
I made a judgement about the quality of the drilling on my rim, which I have already commented on and documented in pictures in this thread.
"evidence that they use child labor"? get serious. 
you might be an advocate for chinese companies, but you hardly have to defend them against me, a customer of theirs... and neg rep for that is weak sauce.
have a good weekend. it gets better. :thumbsup:


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## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

light bicycle wider rim 29er:














































weight 2 rims, hub hope pro 2 evo, spoke sapim race:









wheels
rear 906g









front 792g









lightbicycle rims VS ztr flow









lb rim









flow rim









other photo:
racing ralph 2.25 wire, 0.8 bar


















new wheels on flyxii fr-219


















all photo https://plus.google.com/photos/113998279049900186428/albums/5856188338999497617?banner=pwa


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

sergeysy said:


> light bicycle wider rim 29er:


Nice job with the build!!! :thumbsup:

You ought to invest in a pair of calipers to get accurate measurements.

BB


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## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

stiff, light, tire strongly attached to bead even on low pressure


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

sergeysy said:


> stiff, light, tire strongly attached to bead even on low pressure


Are those tires mounted without tubes?


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## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

Epic_Dude said:


> Are those tires mounted without tubes?


Yes


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

How much of a struggle was mounting the ralphs? Are you using bontrager rim strips or something else? 

Asking since I was attempting to mount a new ralph on one of these rims (bontrager rim strip) and it was a huge struggle to get only one of the beads over the rim. I've dealt with tight tires before, but this seems insanely tight. Considering mounting the tires on another pair of rims with tubes first in hopes of stretching the beads slightly.


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## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

tiflow_21 said:


> How much of a struggle was mounting the ralphs? Are you using bontrager rim strips or something else?
> 
> Asking since I was attempting to mount a new ralph on one of these rims (bontrager rim strip) and it was a huge struggle to get only one of the beads over the rim. I've dealt with tight tires before, but this seems insanely tight. Considering mounting the tires on another pair of rims with tubes first in hopes of stretching the beads slightly.


I am using notubes yellow tape 25mm and mavic valve.
front wheel: mounting racing ralph wire 2.25*29 new. rear wheel: mounting very used racing ralph snakeskin 2.25*29. Mounting both tires by arms. Mounting tires by this video How to install a tube tire on a tubeless wheel with sealant and a floor pump - YouTube (begin 2:00)


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## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

I am very easy to mounting both tires.


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

I bought this wheelset on Ebay because it was so cheap, I only paid £201 which is like $305.

I don't have a scale to weigh the wheels but the seller stated that the rims were 375g each, front hub is 240g and the rear hub is 440g, total wheelset 1813g. The spokes are DT competition (are these any good?) And apparantly there is titanium in the sidewalls. Does anyone know what hubs these are? Also what rims are these? I can't find any information on them.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

robgall13 said:


> I bought this wheelset on Ebay because it was so cheap, I only paid £201 which is like $305.
> 
> I don't have a scale to weigh the wheels but the seller stated that the rims were 375g each, front hub is 240g and the rear hub is 440g, total wheelset 1813g. The spokes are DT competition (are these any good?) And apparantly there is titanium in the sidewalls. You have got to be joking ......
> Does anyone know what hubs these are? Also what rims are these? I can't find any information on them.
> ...


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

robgall13 said:


> I bought this wheelset on Ebay because it was so cheap, I only paid £201 which is like $305.
> 
> I don't have a scale to weigh the wheels but the seller stated that the rims were 375g each, front hub is 240g and the rear hub is 440g, total wheelset 1813g. The spokes are DT competition (are these any good?) And apparantly there is titanium in the sidewalls. Does anyone know what hubs these are? Also what rims are these? I can't find any information on them.


Those aren't Comps.
You got hosed.
Why do your spokes change color? They are silver in one pic and black in another.


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## kindacreeky (Aug 3, 2004)

I bought some LB wider rims, delivered in Jan. 2013. Did my first build of a wheelset using Sapim CX Ray spokes and alloy nips on my old CK hubs. Tensioned all spokes to between 115 kgF and 120, using a Park tension gauge. Before I built up, I used West epoxy wiped with a Q-tip on all the drilled holes to seal the edges. Greased all the spoke nips where they would touch the carbon. Also used Wheelsmith spoke prep. All holes looked uniform, square, and cleanly drilled. Sealed with Stans tape and used Stans valves. Mounted Specialized Captain up front and Schwalbe Nobby Nick in the rear with Stans sealant. No problems mounting or sealing. 

My immediate impression was how much wider the tires look on these rims. Had been running Stans 355's. Ridden the bike about 40 miles on trails now and wheels check true. No issues. Rigidity is obvious, and steering precision is greatly improved. These are on a Santa Cruz Tallboy Carbon. Wheels are exactly the same weight as they were with the Stans 355, so no weight savings, but with wider more rigid rim, I am totally satisfied. I am running these at 25 psi frt and rr. and I weigh 160 lbs.

Thanks to all that contribute to this thread and to LB for a great product.


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

YaMon said:


> robgall13 said:
> 
> 
> > I bought this wheelset on Ebay because it was so cheap, I only paid £201 which is like $305.
> ...


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

robgall13 said:


> I'm looking at the wheels now and the spokes are definitely all silver, must be a trick of the light.


Weird, because in that first picture the spokes look black 100%, not even kind of.


robgall13 said:


> How can you tell which spokes they are?


All Comps are double butted. Those spokes are straight gauge. Do the heads have "DT" stamped on them? Claiming that they use high-quality double butted or bladed spokes and then delivering no-name straight gauge is a little bit of an issue with some of these suppliers.



robgall13 said:


> So far I've riden the wheels to work, they seem very stiff and I can accelerate faster than before, so far so good. If the rims don't break then I'll be happy.


Good... what can you tell us about who you bought them from?


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

@meltingfeather

Yeah must have been a trick of the light.

The spokes have a little symbol which lookes like a T overlapping a D, I assume this is the DT Swiss logo.

I bought it from an Ebay seller who is located in the UK. They often sell hubs, wheels and frames under a brand called Berg. However the only other bike brand called Berg I can find doesn't look like the stuff he sells. I would assume he gets parts in from China, assembles them it at all possible, brands them as Berg as them resells them with a mark-up. Still they have 100% positive feedback, but saying that they only have 107 score.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

robgall13 said:


> @meltingfeather
> 
> Yeah must have been a trick of the light.
> 
> ...


That's the DT Swiss logo.

There are a lot of companies rebranding stuff from China- including a lot of fairly prominent companies selling Chinese frames.

I think MF was just trying to make sure you weren't rooked. This thread isn't about a specific Chinese manufacturer, but rather rims bought directly from the manufacturer instead of a rebrander.

Los


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

YaMon said:


> robgall13 said:
> 
> 
> > And apparantly there is titanium in the sidewalls. You have got to be joking ......
> ...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

rapsac said:


> There are chinese rims with titanium wire in the bead hook for reinforcement. I have seen cross section pictures on the www.


Link or pic?
Titanium seems like a strange selection for carbon fiber reinforcement.


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

Here!

29er clincher rim - Super light - MTB - Rims


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

robgall13 said:


> Here!
> 
> 29er clincher rim - Super light - MTB - Rims


Carbon is typically used to strengthen titanium, not the other way around. Those wires probably weaken the rim compared using straight carbon.
It's also hard to look at that website because of all the shameless shilling that guy does here.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> I did a search and the hole size is a 6.5mm. Good luck in finding that size drill bit...


The valve hole is 6.5mm. I didn't even think about it at the time, but a nipple would probably go straight through a 6.5mm hole. The spoke holes are in the 4.5mm range.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

kindacreeky said:


> I bought some LB wider rims, delivered in Jan. 2013. Did my first build of a wheelset using Sapim CX Ray spokes and alloy nips on my old CK hubs. Tensioned all spokes to between 115 kgF and 120, using a Park tension gauge. Before I built up, I used West epoxy wiped with a Q-tip on all the drilled holes to seal the edges. Greased all the spoke nips where they would touch the carbon. Also used Wheelsmith spoke prep. All holes looked uniform, square, and cleanly drilled. Sealed with Stans tape and used Stans valves. Mounted Specialized Captain up front and Schwalbe Nobby Nick in the rear with Stans sealant. No problems mounting or sealing.
> 
> My immediate impression was how much wider the tires look on these rims. Had been running Stans 355's. Ridden the bike about 40 miles on trails now and wheels check true. No issues. Rigidity is obvious, and steering precision is greatly improved. These are on a Santa Cruz Tallboy Carbon. Wheels are exactly the same weight as they were with the Stans 355, so no weight savings, but with wider more rigid rim, I am totally satisfied. I am running these at 25 psi frt and rr. and I weigh 160 lbs.
> 
> Thanks to all that contribute to this thread and to LB for a great product.


I am 185 and run 20psi on my Tallboy....give it a try?


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## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

who ever used the speichen unterlegscheiben for building wheels?
DT Swiss Unterlegscheiben für 2.0er Speichen


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## J.R.A. (Nov 21, 2012)

I weigh 260lbs, would I be to "big boned" for these rims if I used straight guage spokes and brass nips?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

JRA make sure you have a good wheel builder and actually non-straight guage spokes are stronger and last longer. These rims are about as strong as it gets just make sure you have enough air that they don't hit a sharp edge and you will be fine.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

J.R.A. said:


> I weigh 260lbs, would I be to "big boned" for these rims if I used straight guage spokes and brass nips?


.
Be sure to have them give you the beefier rim that is heavier but has more material in it.
.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

J.R.A. said:


> I weigh 260lbs, would I be to "big boned" for these rims if I used straight guage spokes and brass nips?


Straight gauge is stronger in terms of impact directly to the spokes. However butted spokes are actually less likely to break from regular stress. If I understand correctly, this is because flex and stretch strain are moved away from the jbend and nipple ends. Because those are the parts that normally break, it is better to let the center/thinner section of the spoke be the part that repeatedly deforms microscopically with each loading and unloading of force.

For your needs, I'd definitely go with brass nipples. After that it is all about getting evenly and properly tensioned spokes.


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## J.R.A. (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks for the info guys


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## spain (May 29, 2005)

ViltusVilks said:


> broadwaylin, can you give link?
> 
> Today i also received my 38 carbon clinchers with Novatech hubs. Actual weight 1615g


Did you buy these wheels for CX or MTB?


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## nicola (Nov 28, 2006)

and someone have measured the ERD of the LB non-wide rim? they claim 604. I want change my Crest without sacrifice my (expensive) Aerolites. Crest are claimed at 605 but my spokes are 294mm and there no more than 1mm of free thread...


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## wattiez (Jan 27, 2011)

I'm also in the same boat as Nicola.
I currently have Crests and according to Stans the ERD IS 605, LB wide is 603?

Would I be able to get away with using the same spokes?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

nicola said:


> and someone have measured the ERD of the LB non-wide rim? they claim 604. I want change my Crest without sacrifice my (expensive) Aerolites. Crest are claimed at 605 but my spokes are 294mm and there no more than 1mm of free thread...


I dunno... what's more important to you? The spokes or the rim? I'll bet you can swap it over and it will be fine. We're talking half a MM per spoke.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

what is the verdict on these? I've skimmed through a bunch of pages and seen weights ranging from ~1450g to ~1650g per pair. My current wheels weigh 1720...if I could build a set of these in the 1500g range I might jump on a set.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

zachua- I think that some people even built these up to around 1320. You should ask 'Nancy' to ship you some lighter rims (around 380), and then build them up with light spokes and hubs.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

1320!? wow that is light. which hubs did they use or do you remember roughly what page it was on?


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

KLF said:


> Yes, _well_ under 1600 g.
> Today I received a set of complete wheels from LB.
> 28H, Rotaz hubs, Pillar PBA 1420 spokes (same dimensions as a Sapim CX-ray)
> F 649g., R 781g. = 1430g out of the box.
> ...


#2687


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I dont remember the page, but I think the hubs were something like dt swiss 240 or circus monkey. Look for the lowest weight hub you can find, but make sire it fits your axle standards and has good Poe. Also try to use good spokes light sapim cx-ray or dt swiss satellite or revolution. Another trick is to go with 28 hole instead of 32.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

look at page 39, post 955, wheelset is 1340 grams. I think that is about the lightest you can build them. I couldn't find what hubs and spokes he used though. I didn't look so hard, you can probably find what he used if you look around a bit.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have built a set with DT240 and American Classic. The American Classic hubs cost slightly less, were lighter and were easier to build since they flanges are more even. I have ridden the American Classics most of the Winter (because of which bike they are on) and only ridden the DT240's once or twice but my overall impression of ride is a wash so I would recommend the AC's over the DT's. Both wheelsets were built with DT revolution spokes so the only dif is the hubs.


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## ViltusVilks (Feb 12, 2012)

spain said:


> Did you buy these wheels for CX or MTB?


For MTB, but currently i can't test them in MTB mode, only road and they are rolling very well - N.DS7** hubs are awesome, rims/spoks are stiff

Pic from last weekend


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

yourdaguy said:


> I have built a set with DT240 and American Classic. The American Classic hubs cost slightly less, were lighter and were easier to build since they flanges are more even. I have ridden the American Classics most of the Winter (because of which bike they are on) and only ridden the DT240's once or twice but my overall impression of ride is a wash so I would recommend the AC's over the DT's. Both wheelsets were built with DT revolution spokes so the only dif is the hubs.


AC hubs, at least in the past, have been like 16 POE for the freehub. DT Swiss 240 hubs are 18 POE from the factory, but there is a replacement star ratchet that bumps that up to 36 POE for about $30. I have a Hugi hub on one bike with the new star ratchets, and a 240s on the other, and I love 'em. They spin crazy smooth, they're light, and durable.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

man, thanks xc and scottay! that was just what I was looking for. wonder how much they weigh with Stan's tape and valves.

I know mine weigh an advertised 1720g but not sure if that's with tape and valves or not...they came with tape already installed. I bet they got that number pre tape.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I am trying to get the magazine mountain bike action to do a product test on these rims, it would be a lot more likely to happen if you all would send in a test request to the too.
here is a link to their site: Bike Test Request | mountain-bike-action
I think that their testing it would provide another good opinion on the rims. Thank you to all those that ask.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

xc biker said:


> I am trying to get the magazine mountain bike action to do a product test on these rims, it would be a lot more likely to happen if you all would send in a test request to the too.
> here is a link to their site: Bike Test Request | mountain-bike-action
> I think that their testing it would provide another good opinion on the rims. Thank you to all those that ask.


Email sent! Hope they'll do a review.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

xc biker said:


> I am trying to get the magazine mountain bike action to do a product test on these rims, it would be a lot more likely to happen if you all would send in a test request to the too.
> here is a link to their site: Bike Test Request | mountain-bike-action
> I think that their testing it would provide another good opinion on the rims. Thank you to all those that ask.


Sent an email also. they said if they had a rep or distributor in the states, they would test them. But because they were only available straight from China, it wasn't possible.

At least they replied, and extremely quick too.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

They probably only test stuff they get for free. No distributor to give them free stuff.


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## rondigs (Nov 23, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> AC hubs, at least in the past, have been like 16 POE for the freehub. DT Swiss 240 hubs are 18 POE from the factory, but there is a replacement star ratchet that bumps that up to 36 POE for about $30. I have a Hugi hub on one bike with the new star ratchets, and a 240s on the other, and I love 'em. They spin crazy smooth, they're light, and durable.


I decided to go with an AC 15mm front hub (it's lighter and costs less) and a DT swiss 240s rear hub (light, bomb proof and the POE). The last wheel build, I chose DT revo's. This time I'm gonna try the super comps to stiffen the wheels up. Now, just waiting on the new version wider 3K rims...

I'll post the weights after the build.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

rondigs said:


> I decided to go with an AC 15mm front hub (it's lighter and costs less) and a DT swiss 240s rear hub (light, bomb proof and the POE). The last wheel build, I chose DT revo's. This time I'm gonna try the super comps to stiffen the wheels up. Now, just waiting on the new version wider 3K rims...
> 
> I'll post the weights after the build.


I would go lighter spokes. The rim is so stiff you won't tell the difference in spokes.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

These wheels will be the stiffest you have owned so I second the recommendation on the lighter spokes.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> I have built a set with DT240 and American Classic. The American Classic hubs cost slightly less, were lighter and were easier to build since they flanges are more even. I have ridden the American Classics most of the Winter (because of which bike they are on) and only ridden the DT240's once or twice but my overall impression of ride is a wash so I would recommend the AC's over the DT's. Both wheelsets were built with DT revolution spokes so the only dif is the hubs.


Sorry I know it's probably mentioned earlier but what were the weights of your two sets?


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> They probably only test stuff they get for free. No distributor to give them free stuff.


Stay tuned and wait a few more weeks. Heading over there soon to sign contract and hire a company to do QC before it is shipped to the states. Warranty will be from states and we will have a crash replacement program as well......


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

How much markup for the QC and US branding and warranty? Has that been determined? Would love to see someone make some money while providing some peace of mind on affordable carbon hoops. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

jn35646 said:


> How much markup for the QC and US branding and warranty? Has that been determined? Would love to see someone make some money while providing some peace of mind on affordable carbon hoops.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Not going to be as much as you think. We are working very hard to keep the prices down. Presently everyone is paying around $400 per set, delivered to the USA. You have to factor the cost of delivery as part of the cost of the rim/wheels.

We will have to hire a person/company we can trust to check each and every rim/ wheel before they get shipped. We will add an additional QC step when they arrive. Warranty will be handled from the states. I am sure we will also offer a crash replacement program. We anticipate being at interbike and will have a demo wheel program with our bike store dealer network. Oh, custom colored decals will also be offered. Can't tell you the name yet as we are in the process of registering the company now......

Wheels will be checked for tension with a park tool before shipping out. We are also talking about changing out the bearings with enduro bearings before shipping out as well.......may offer a ceramic bearing option for all the weight weenie racers..


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

YaMon said:


> Not going to be as much as you think. We are working very hard to keep the prices down. Presently everyone is paying around $400 per set, delivered to the USA. You have to factor the cost of delivery as part of the cost of the rim/wheels.
> 
> We will have to hire a person/company we can trust to check each and every rim/ wheel before they get shipped. We will add an additional QC step when they arrive. Warranty will be handled from the states. I am sure we will also offer a crash replacement program. We anticipate being at interbike and will have a demo wheel program with our bike store dealer network. Oh, custom colored decals will also be offered. Can't tell you the name yet as we are in the process of registering the company now......
> 
> Wheels will be checked for tension with a park tool before shipping out. We are also talking about changing out the bearings with enduro bearings before shipping out as well.......may offer a ceramic bearing option for all the weight weenie racers..


Rim only option?


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

No. We will be bringing in 26", 650b, 29" and complete wheel sets. There are so many combinAtions, so will will probably focus on 3m, mat and 32 hole at first.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Bikeman offers a rim with the Carver label that I'm pretty sure are the LB rims. The markup seems pretty substantial however.

I almost went the Bikeman route, but ultimately went direct as it seems the QC from LB is OK based on this thread.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

lokisar; the DT set weighed 1480 and the AC set weighed 1420 but the rims IIRC were about 20 grams heavier on the AC set so the final dif should be about 80 grams. I got lucky on the DT set and the rims weighed about 380 each. Another factor is that all the spoke calc measurements for the AC set came out to 291 or 292 so I built them with 291 saving money by buying one box of spokes and looking from the bottom of the nipples after they were built this was a good decision. The DT I used 291, 292, 295 since I had to buy small quantities.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

YaMon said:


> No. We will be bringing in 26", 650b, 29" and complete wheel sets. There are so many combinAtions, so will will probably focus on 3m, mat and 32 hole at first.


Best of luck in your venture, but didn't someone already try this? Some guy in California was a reseller. I have seen a few sets on Ebay also with fancy decals.

Maybe some will appreciate the convinience and the security of the QC and warranty you are offering, but I would have a hard time swallowing the middleman mark-up when the process as it stands seems pretty straight forward and simple.
Go online.
Place order.
Rims arrive.
Have a reputable wheelbuilder build the wheels (most important part for me as he will also do QC on the rims for build price).

Now, if there were horror stories regarding Light Bicycle and the quality of the rims, I would see the rational behind your venture. As it stands now, Light Bicycle replaces rims that are defective, but I have to pay shipping costs. Somehow I think that will be lower than the middleman markup.

Again, best of luck, but I don't see the opportunity here. It is not like it is 1993 and you have to call China to get the goods. It is all done painlessly online.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

There could be several advantages to having distribution in the US. First of all the shipping charges for 2 rims at a time are a significant part of the cost. If they send a container of rims to the US the packaging can be much less and the shipping can be an order of magnitude less per rim going from say $40 to $4. They would still have to ship to your door, but that would probably be in the $15 range. Another factor is faster service. How many sales do they lose because the current method of shipping from China is generally at least 2 weeks and can be longer with no particular pattern? If they locate in a central area of the US they can give deliver in less than a week on rims that are in stock and even have relatively lower rates on expedited shipments. Due to shipping back to China the warranty procedure is a total pain. With US distribution the warranty would be just as painless as it is for any other product with US distribution and it also lowers the warranty cost. Also, defective rims don't have to be sent all the way back to China. The distributor can hold them and when a factory representative shows up they can crush and recycle them at the distributor. A local distributor would have local knowledge of US conditions, models, practices, etc. so for example if someone used the term "rock garden" with Nancy, she might mis-interpret what it meant. I could go on but I should stop since this is turning into a thread hijack.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Thanks. You get it.......anyways, don't want Francis to delete this so I am going to bow out till everything is in place. If the rim is not approved as a warrant claim, what do you do?.. Order a new replacement rim and pay $50 ship one rim?. The majority of people are still averse to ordering directly from China. I can tell you a lot of other things that would scare the hell out of me. For instance ...check out carbonal website, you will not find an address or telephone number to reach them.....what about if you are to sure about ordering?.. Well with our demo program, you will be able to try out the wheel sets through your local bike shop. Of course this costs a lot of money.........


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

YaMon said:


> Thanks. You get it.......anyways, don't want Francis to delete this so I am going to bow out till everything is in place. If the rim is not approved as a warrant claim, what do you do?.. Order a new replacement rim and pay $50 ship one rim?. The majority of people are still averse to ordering directly from China. I can tell you a lot of other things that would scare the hell out of me. For instance ...check out carbonal website, you will not find an address or telephone number to reach them.....what about if you are to sure about ordering?.. Well with our demo program, you will be able to try out the wheel sets through your local bike shop. Of course this costs a lot of money.........


Are you going to honor every warranty claim? Or if it is denied will I have to buy a new rim from you and pay shipping too? Some US companies are tightwads towards warranty claims and others are pretty good. How will your company be?

As for time? It takes about 2 weeks to get the rims, some people claim as quick as 6-7 days. Rock Garden ....dang just send a picture ...it is worth a thousand words and will not be lost in translation. Again, some of these points might hold merit if it were a phone order. Online internet orders via Pay-pal seem straight forward and simple. Light Bicycle already has a decent rep ...Carbonal is a shill on the 29 carbon frame board.

The most important part is the wheel builder. I can get a few reputable wheel builders or my LBS to build them. Who are you going to have build your wheels?

Again, best of luck


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Maybe some will appreciate the convinience and the security of the QC and warranty you are offering, but I would have a hard time swallowing the middleman mark-up.

Now, if there were horror stories regarding Light Bicycle and the quality of the rims, I would see the rational behind your venture. As it stands now, Light Bicycle replaces rims that are defective, but I have to pay shipping costs. Somehow I think that will be lower than the middleman markup.

At the present moment if you have a warranty claim, it will cost you $15 to ship the defective rim to NY. Then you will wait weeks and pay $50 to ship your replacement rim and another $10 in Paypal fees. What of I told you that the
markup was a LOT less than what you are going to pay AND you will also get a crash replacement policy just in case you bashed the rim and it was not due to bad manufacturing. Crash replacement will cost you $165 plus $50 to ship. What if I told you we would offer crash replacement at $175.....stay tuned.

Again, best of luck, but I don't see the opportunity here. It is not like it is 1993 and you have to call China to get the goods. It is all done painlessly online.[/QUOTE]


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Ottoreni said:


> Are you going to honor every warranty claim? Or if it is denied will I have to buy a new rim from you and pay shipping too? Some US companies are tightwads towards warranty claims and others are pretty good. How will your company be?
> 
> As for time? It takes about 2 weeks to get the rims, some people claim as quick as 6-7 days. Rock Garden ....dang just send a picture ...it is worth a thousand words and will not be lost in translation. Again, some of these points might hold merit if it were a phone order. Online internet orders via Pay-pal seem straight forward and simple. Light Bicycle already has a decent rep ...Carbonal is a shill on the 29 carbon frame board.
> 
> ...


Cannot offer a blanket warranty service. What if the bike fell off the back of a truck or you used too low a pressure and dinged the lip of the rim ?.. For those situations our crash replacement program will come into play. Much better than ordering one rim from China. If you want a no question replacement program, then buy Enve.

Wheels will come from lb, we will check spoke tension and offer a upgraded bearing before we ship out. Some people have voiced concerns about the quality of the bearings. Enduro has a great reputation. You still have the option of purchasing rim only and having it built locally.

Rims not purchased through us will not be warrantied and you will have to go through lb....


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

YaMon said:


> Cannot offer a blanket warranty service. What if the bike fell off the back of a truck or you used too low a pressure and dinged the lip of the rim ?.. For those situations our crash replacement program will come into play. Much better than ordering one rim from China. If you want a no question replacement program, then buy Enve.
> 
> Wheels will come from lb, we will check spoke tension and offer a upgraded bearing before we ship out. Some people have voiced concerns about the quality of the bearings. Enduro has a great reputation. You still have the option of purchasing rim only and having it built locally.
> 
> Rims not purchased through us will not be warrantied and you will have to go through lb....


You posted earlier that you were not going to offer rims only. Are you going to or not?


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Absolutely. Don't know where you got that idea. We will offer 26" XC,AM. 650b am, 29" XC, am and hd.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Rim only option?





YaMon said:


> No. We will be bringing in 26", 650b, 29" and complete wheel sets. There are so many combinAtions, so will will probably focus on 3m, mat and 32 hole at first.


ut:


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Rim only option?





YaMon said:


> No. We will be bringing in 26", 650b, 29" and complete wheel sets. There are so many combinAtions, so will will probably focus on 3m, mat and 32 hole at first.





YaMon said:


> Absolutely. Don't know where you got that idea. We will offer 26" XC,AM. 650b am, 29" XC, am and hd.


Dude. :skep:


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Ok I can play....26" RIMS, 650b RIMS, 29" RIMS AND, AND Complete wheel sets in addition to 26" rims, 650b rims and 29" rims.

Have a good night, time for me to check out.....zzzzzzz.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

YaMon said:


> Ok I can play....26" RIMS, 650b RIMS, 29" RIMS AND, AND Complete wheel sets in addition to 26" rims, 650b rims and 29" rims.
> 
> Have a good night, time for me to check out.....zzzzzzz.


WOW!
And this yet to be named company already starts off with fantasically confusing customer service and smart-arse replies.....


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

New start up teething pain, he'll get it sorted out. I think.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

I hope....for the sake of his customers who want all the added security and convenience his company will offer.
Otherwise that attitude will not carry him far ...

Again, I wish him best of luck....C-ya!


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

If you can't tell the dude misinterpreted "Rim only option?" as 'are rims the only option, ' and then answered accordingly, you are fishing for an excuse to blast someone that is being more transparent about a potential business than most. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Well said!


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> AC hubs, at least in the past, have been like 16 POE for the freehub. ....


American Classic hubs had originally been 24 POE, stops per revolution. The WTB Laser-Lite hub long used the AC internals with a heavier casing. But I haven't checked in many years. Unlikely they would downgrade in engagement.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

derby said:


> American Classic hubs had originally been 24 POE, stops per revolution. The WTB Laser-Lite hub long used the AC internals with a heavier casing. But I haven't checked in many years. Unlikely they would downgrade in engagement.


From the website:


> The cassette body has 24 ratchet teeth for engagement with the pawls. Each pawl is made from super strong tool steel and has double tips for 12 points of engagement to work in conjunction with the 24 ratchet teeth


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> From the website: The cassette body has 24 ratchet teeth for engagement with the pawls. Each pawl is made from super strong tool steel and has double tips for 12 points of engagement to work in conjunction with the 24 ratchet teeth


And the web site mentions 6 pawls, all engaging at once. Which means ether 24 stops, or if the pawls can engage the ratchet teeth in two places, 48 stops per cycle. They would tout 48 stops, being quicker than Shimano's decent amount of 32 stops, so it's likely only 24 stops per cycle.

The "POE" is a term used with various meanings. Only turning the cassette body and counting how many stops is the sure way to know.


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## rondigs (Nov 23, 2008)

Which bontranger strip is everyone using for the wider 29" rims- asymmetric, symmetric or RXL? Thank you for the help. I'm guessing its:
#406892 Rhythm Tubeless Rim Strip-Symmetric (622 x 21). That one seems to be the widest...


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

rondigs said:


> Which bontranger strip is everyone using for the wider 29" rims- asymmetric, symmetric or RXL? Thank you for the help. I'm guessing its:
> #406892 Rhythm Tubeless Rim Strip-Symmetric (622 x 21). That one seems to be the widest...


Part # 406892 are the ones I ordered


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

rondigs said:


> I decided to go with an AC 15mm front hub (it's lighter and costs less) and a DT swiss 240s rear hub (light, bomb proof and the POE). The last wheel build, I chose DT revo's. This time I'm gonna try the super comps to stiffen the wheels up. Now, just waiting on the new version wider 3K rims...
> 
> I'll post the weights after the build.


Nice! Good choices. I run Lefty forks on my bikes, so I'm pretty much limited to Cannondale Lefty front hubs, DT Swi$$, Project321 ($$$) or Circus Monkey. Reality of it is, there isn't much real world difference between front hubs. It's a shell with bearings stuck in it, with a stick through the middle of it. As long as it isn't made from crappy parts or materials, it's gonna be fine. On a Lefty, there isn't even an axle with the hub. The axle is integrated into the fork.

The Circus Monkey hub I got has been flawless so far. I have about 800 miles on it, even with the original bearings. For $60 landed it's a smoking deal. I only wish it came in silver.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

What are the rims painted with. Clear coat?
Hello Kidd,

We have seen your message.
The rims are on painting line now, the rims can be shipped to you in 3days.
The production line finished them last week. the QC department have the painting line to repaint the rims. That is why it is delayed.
Thanks'
Nancy


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

Sure would be nice if Nancy & company could get some 30mm deep 29er rims in the XC width.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

ms6073 said:


> Sure would be nice if Nancy & company could get some 30mm deep 29er rims in the XC width.


Do you know what it cost to develop a new mold?? That being said, they should have done this in the first place ....for all their rims. It adds a lot for the safety factor, not easy for it to crack in that direction when the layup is following the rim.....Similar to how Enve is shaped..


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Here is a close up of the 3k matte finish on a pair of my LB 88mm tubulars for anyone interested;

Dugast | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

broadwayline said:


> Here is a close up of the 3k matte finish on a pair of my LB 88mm tubulars for anyone interested;
> 
> Dugast | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Hey, can you give a comment on the build quality and brake track? Do you need special pads, or is it basalt covered so standard pads are fine? Does the drilling look good? I'm thinking of getting a pair of the 38mm road rims... Thanks!


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

just like pau11y, I would also appreciate a description of the road rims.

-thanks, xcbiker


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Pau11y said:


> Hey, can you give a comment on the build quality and brake track? Do you need special pads, or is it basalt covered so standard pads are fine? Does the drilling look good? I'm thinking of getting a pair of the 38mm road rims... Thanks!


I also have a pair of their 38mm pre builts for my CX bike - I have raced on them with Avid Shorty Ultimates with OEM non carbon pads, and the swiss stop yellow carbon pads.

Both pads worked great on the carbon surface of the LB rims (there is a sanded in brake tract). The swiss stop yellows however worked a bit better, there was less brake chatter on the Canti's and the modulation was better, and I read they will handle heat of big descents better. Power is great, have no need for more power - can easily lock up the rear without a ton of lever pressure, and the front stops you fast enough that you would go OTB if you pulled full force.

So far they have held up great, I have about 700km of city riding on their 88mm tubulars on my fixed gear bike (bad quality roads and abuse) with no issues, including riding 5km on a flat tire with no damage to the tubular tub.

I have some seriously muddy cross / gravel grinder races on the 38mm's and the brake tracts look good as new once you clean the pad residue off them.

Would I buy again? Without a question - I have 3 pairs of them now (29er custom build, 88mm tubs custom build, 38mm clinchers pre builts)


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

thanks broadwayline. 
is there a special brake track, like basalt or whatever, other than it being sanded?


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

xc biker said:


> thanks broadwayline.
> is there a special brake track, like basalt or whatever, other than it being sanded?


I couldn't tell you, I'm not sure what basalt is - All I can say is it works well!


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

okay, thanks. 
I think that basalt is a special material used to improve braking performance and reduce heat. S/o please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

*LB 275 30mm rims finally arrived*

Workmanship is very good. 375g each. It was packaged very well. Slap a Roval sticker on it and you wouldn't know the difference. Process took a little longer than I had hoped. Lacing them up this week, then putting them on my Carbine I'm building up. Full report soon.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

broadwayline said:


> I couldn't tell you, I'm not sure what basalt is - All I can say is it works well!


Broadwayline, thanks for the feedback!  I think I'll get some of these w/ some King R45 and their ceramic bearings and build me a set of PIMP wheels 
I'm on a tossup between the 38 w/ 24/28, or a set of their 25 w/ 32/32... Any thoughts?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

So what is the latest word on these? Are they shipping the 'new design' LB Wide 29er rims? I got a set last year and have been more than stoked with my Hugi/Lefty wheelset. Light, stiff, nice and wide. 

I need (ha! NEED!) another set for my Singlespeed but wanted to wait until the new version was out.


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## Salt Cycles (Sep 25, 2004)

The new version is now shipping - but just to be safe I would request the "new process" when you place your order as I believe they are still shipping old process rims also.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> So what is the latest word on these? Are they shipping the 'new design' LB Wide 29er rims? I got a set last year and have been more than stoked with my Hugi/Lefty wheelset. Light, stiff, nice and wide.
> 
> I need (ha! NEED!) another set for my Singlespeed but wanted to wait until the new version was out.


I just ordered a set about 2 weeks ago and you can specify whether you want old or new process.
I asked Brian about the new process vs the old process and his answer was that in theory the new process should be better. But they've only been shipping for about a month and they've shipped 150-200 sets without any complaints from customers/beta-testers(haha) so far. On the other hand, the old process is more mature and I think they have refined the process as they gained more experience and feedback from customers.
The other thing Brian told me was that they currently have only 1 mold for the new process so the lead time is a bit longer. I think he quoted me 7 days for the old process and 10 days for the new. I just received my shipping notification on Saturday for new process rims so for me the actual lead time was more like 14 business days.
I already have 3 sets of LB rims, 1 set in each size. For me, the worst quality wise were the 29er rims that I got from them. The rims had the irregular holes like Meltingfeather reported earlier and the joints of the sections were pretty clearly visible and somewhat un-even from the inside. I'm really hoping that the new process will be better.
Anyways, I will report back when I get the rims later this week.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Just a FYI guys,

They have been using the 'new process' on their road rims for much longer than they have on their 29er wheels.

I have about 700km on a pair of their new process 88mm road rims that I built back in the fall with no issues!


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

MntnMan said:


> Workmanship is very good. 375g each. It was packaged very well. Slap a Roval sticker on it and you wouldn't know the difference. Process took a little longer than I had hoped. Lacing them up this week, then putting them on my Carbine I'm building up. Full report soon.


Also, I EASILY mounted both NeoMotos and Hans Dampf by hand, dry, no lubrication. May need two layers of Gorilla tape.


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## rondigs (Nov 23, 2008)

pwu_1 said:


> I just ordered a set about 2 weeks ago and you can specify whether you want old or new process.
> I asked Brian about the new process vs the old process and his answer was that in theory the new process should be better. But they've only been shipping for about a month and they've shipped 150-200 sets without any complaints from customers/beta-testers(haha) so far. On the other hand, the old process is more mature and I think they have refined the process as they gained more experience and feedback from customers.
> The other thing Brian told me was that they currently have only 1 mold for the new process so the lead time is a bit longer. I think he quoted me 7 days for the old process and 10 days for the new. I just received my shipping notification on Saturday for new process rims so for me the actual lead time was more like 14 business days.
> I already have 3 sets of LB rims, 1 set in each size. For me, the worst quality wise were the 29er rims that I got from them. The rims had the irregular holes like Meltingfeather reported earlier and the joints of the sections were pretty clearly visible and somewhat un-even from the inside. I'm really hoping that the new process will be better.
> Anyways, I will report back when I get the rims later this week.


Lucky you... 
I ordered the new process wider 29" rims on 3/12, was told 7-10 days. On 3/22, they were projected to finish in 4-5 days. I've yet to receive a 
new completion date and/or tracking number.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

rondigs said:


> Lucky you...
> I ordered the new process wider 29" rims on 3/12, was told 7-10 days. On 3/22, they were projected to finish in 4-5 days. I've yet to receive a
> new completion date and/or tracking number.


Hang in there. Your rims should be done soon too. I looked back through my e-mail and I orderd them on the 12th also. Did you specify anything other than new process? I just told Brian I wanted new process and close to the advertised weight. 3k 32 holes


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## rondigs (Nov 23, 2008)

pwu_1 said:


> Hang in there. Your rims should be done soon too. I looked back through my e-mail and I orderd them on the 12th also. Did you specify anything other than new process? I just told Brian I wanted new process and close to the advertised weight. 3k 32 holes


Same exact setup as you listed. Hopefully they'll ship soon. I've got a brand new titanium 29er waiting for them.


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

Just received my "new process" rims, 32 hole, 3k, matte. Requested lightest from normal production. Ordered 3 pieces (a spare..) Weights 387, 392 and 395 grams.
Rims are looking good.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

MntnMan said:


> Also, I EASILY mounted both NeoMotos and Hans Dampf by hand, dry, no lubrication. May need two layers of Gorilla tape.


I know it's a tad off thread topic but..........
I've never done the tape tubeless as I have run Mavics for a while. Is gorilla the best?

Just thinking off the top of my head, the fiberglass reinforced packing tape would not stretch over time like gorilla tape would.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

ziscwg said:


> I know it's a tad off thread topic but..........
> I've never done the tape tubeless as I have run Mavics for a while. Is gorilla the best?
> 
> Just thinking off the top of my head, the fiberglass reinforced packing tape would not stretch over time like gorilla tape would.


I don't know what's best. I used gorilla tape because it was immediately available. I'm having some burping with the nobby nics right now and am going to switch to Bonty Rhythm Strips.

The gorilla tape leaves a real mess! With that in mind I am not recommending it. (Tho it has worked fine with tubes.)

Can anyone recommend the best way to remove the gorilla tape adhesive from my rims?

TIA!


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

ziscwg said:


> I know it's a tad off thread topic but..........
> I've never done the tape tubeless as I have run Mavics for a while. Is gorilla the best?
> 
> Just thinking off the top of my head, the fiberglass reinforced packing tape would not stretch over time like gorilla tape would.


I think everyone has their favorite way of going tubeless. Not really sure if one is better than the other. I believe Enve was the first company to use Gorilla tape to make their rims tubeless compatible.

For me personally, I used the Bontriger rhythm strips for my 26 and 29er rims and used 25mm Stans yellow tape for the 650B since there are no Bontriger rhythm strips for 650B.
Not sure if its the tires or tape method but the 650B Neo-Moto needed the most sealant to seal. I had to add sealant like 3 or 4 times before it finally sealed good enough to not loose more than 5 psi over night. The 26 and 29 I used Schwalbe tires and the 26 nobby nics felt like it didn't loose any air for a whole day without any sealant at all.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Trust me on this.....Buy the Bonty Rim Strip. I was using the fiber packing tape and the valve started leaking, in the end the bead just detached from the rim, nothing holding it. With the Bontrager Strip, even when the tire has lost pressure the bead is still firmly connected. Easier to pump by hand and you know when the bead seats because it makes a very lod popping sound....


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

No offset to spoke holes?

I received my wide AM 29er rims from LB. Visual inspection seems to indicate that all the spoke holes are drilled/machined in a single "line" down the rim. Every other rim I have ever used (many from Mavic, Bonty, Velocity) has offset spoke holes, where half the holes are slightly offset to one side, and the other half are slightly offset to the other side.

Note that I'm NOT talking about asym rims. 

I searched this thread and couldn't find any earlier dicussion of this. Is everyone just randiomly picking a hole for the first leading spoke on their build? Or are these holes actually offset and I am too blind to see it?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

InertiaMan said:


> Is everyone just randiomly picking a hole for the first leading spoke on their build? Or are these holes actually offset and I am too blind to see it?


My rims did not have any offset or directional drilling. I laced them like I lace just about every other rim, since most rims with directional drilling are set up the same way.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Holes are not offset and actually I think Ritchie or someone ownes the patent on offset holes and that is why Shimano quit making sweet 16 road rims because they had offset holes and he was charging them a fortune to use it. Your previous rims had the holes angled every other one in the opposite direction. This allows the nipples to line up better with the hub, but is not a big deal in the overall scheme of things.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Holes are not offset and actually I think Ritchie or someone ownes the patent on offset holes and that is why Shimano quit making sweet 16 road rims because they had offset holes and he was charging them a fortune to use it. Your previous rims had the holes angled every other one in the opposite direction. This allows the nipples to line up better with the hub, but is not a big deal in the overall scheme of things.


nonsense


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well I don't know what part is supposed to be nonsense. Someone does own the patent on spoke holes that are offset such that opposing spokes cross the midline of the rim. I don't remember if it is Ritchie for sure, but if you don't believe me you can ask Shimano. Most rims are drilled so that every other spoke points to the opposite side, but the hole starts in the center or the center of the offset if it is an offset rim. IF the hole does not start at the center and is to the side such that the spokes cross, I can guarantee you that someone is going to get a letter from an attorney. So does this mean that in your opinion angling the drillings is a big deal?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Well I don't know what part is supposed to be nonsense.


Most all of it.


yourdaguy said:


> Someone does own the patent on spoke holes that are offset such that opposing spokes cross the midline of the rim. I don't remember if it is Ritchie for sure, but if you don't believe me you can ask Shimano.


Shimano would probably tell you that they developed the patterning for the Sweet 16 wheels upon request from tandem builder Santana. Ask Shimano yourself... or just peruse the widely available information on Sweet 16 wheels... like say for example on Santana's website.


yourdaguy said:


> Most rims are drilled so that every other spoke points to the opposite side, but the hole starts in the center or the center of the offset if it is an offset rim.


Wrong. Pick up any Velocity rim or a WTB Frequency rim.


yourdaguy said:


> IF the hole does not start at the center and is to the side such that the spokes cross, I can guarantee you that someone is going to get a letter from an attorney.


whatever...
I think you've misinterpreted what he's talking about in the first place.


yourdaguy said:


> So does this mean that in your opinion angling the drillings is a big deal?


Angling the spoke hole drilling such that the nipples align toward the flange they are intended to hit most definitely makes a difference. To think otherwise would indicate not much experience building or maintaining bike wheels.


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## spain (May 29, 2005)

ms6073 said:


> Sure would be nice if Nancy & company could get some 30mm deep 29er rims in the XC width.


I sent a mail and she answer:

Hello sir,

Currently, we only have this depth. Why do you need higher profile? Will it be popular?

Thanks,
Nancy


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## texancyclist (May 1, 2012)

The bead hook is the weak spot is it not? Any deeper and the rim will be even stiffer radially, causing higher localized impact stress. View some of the zipp 303 development videos to get a better understanding this.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

texancyclist said:


> The bead hook is the weak spot is it not? Any deeper and the rim will be even stiffer radially, causing higher localized impact stress. View some of the zipp 303 development videos to get a better understanding this.


Well thanks for the teaser and NOT upping a link!


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## texancyclist (May 1, 2012)

Zipp 303 - YouTube


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

what's the lightest for the wide 29er rim that you can ask Nancy to get for you?
is it about 375 grams?


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

Anyone purchased a full wheelset with the Novatec hubs have any review on them. Don't really feel like building a wheelset if they can send a full wheelset ready to go out of the box.


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

Does anyone have an estimated order to ship time for the 650b rims? 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## gumby. (Mar 11, 2013)

reamer41 said:


> Can anyone recommend the best way to remove the gorilla tape adhesive from my rims?


Mineral turpentine dissolves most adhesives (and skin oils).


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## FireSpitter (Feb 15, 2012)

spain said:


> I sent a mail and she answer:
> 
> Hello sir,
> 
> ...


Maybe we should do an email bomb on them to make them realize that this may be the next in-thing!



xc biker said:


> what's the lightest for the wide 29er rim that you can ask Nancy to get for you?
> is it about 375 grams?


Not sure about the rest but I got 380 & 384gms when I asked for the lightest one in their batch.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> but if you don't believe me you can ask Shimano. ?


Out of curiosity, how would one "ask Shimano" anything?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I own a Santana tandem with Sweet 16 wheels and it is well know in the tandem forums that there is a patent on the cross spoke design and that Shimano does pay a huge royalty on it. I just don't remember if it was Ritchie, Bontragger or someone else who owns the patent. I think it is Ritchie.

If you want to believe that the angling of the spoke holes is a big deal, then you are entitled to hold that opinion, but many, many rims do not have this feature and since when you stress relieve the spokes, they actually bend slightly when confronted with straight nipples and this has no ill effect on spoke life. IF you believe this to be a big issue, then why are you using these rims and hanging out on this thread? You know these rims have straight holes.


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## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

So I finally decided to drop the coin on these after reading up a bunch. I see the same questions being asked over and over, not to mention a lot of mis-information. Here is my experience and ramblings:

What I bought
29er 'wider' rims in 3k matte laced to white novatec hubs.

What I thought
Looked great! I'm not one to sweat the details on a piece of hardware that is going to get nicked, dinged and muddy within the first 15 minutes of a race, but quality was great, hubs looked good and they were true. With that being said, I do have an eye for details, they passed with flying colors and get two thumbs up.

Ordering experience
As everybody has stated here multiple times, Nancy and her crew are VERY responsive and great to work with. Paid around $650. Shipping was expensive but they were packaged very well and from time I ordered to time I received was about 2 weeks give or take.

Running Tubeless
I'm using Conti Mountain King / X-King
1 layer Stans tape + sealant&#8230;.tires slid right on no problem and aired up easily with a floor pump. I've struggled with these tires in the past on my Roval rims and had to use a compressor. At about 8-10 psi I could burp the tires with my fingers if I squeezed the bead, I was not happy with that, so&#8230;..

Bontrager Rhythm Strip + 1 layer stans tape + sealant&#8230;..harder to get tires on, you have to keep the bead in the center track to give you enough space, aka don't let the bead seat until the tire is all the way on (you dirtbike guys will understand). Aired up no problem with floor pump with an audible *POP* like my Rovals. I couldn't burp the tire anymore with my hands, MUCH more secure interface. Whether that means it is any more secure riding, I don't know I don't have any quantifiable data, but it certainly make me feel better.

I would say Rhythm strips are a must do. They give that extra level of security with little to no drawbacks.

Expectations
This will be my XC race day wheelset. It's much lighter than my Roval Aluminum wheels and much less expensive than the Roval carbons that I was contemplating purchasing. Based on many good reviews here and a friend who has used them for FR, my hope is they hold up for at least a couple years of hard XC racing. The hubs look to be good quality. Many CX guys around here (Portland) get the Chinese wheels for their cross bikes and replace bearings after a short time when they get mucked up, I expect I'll have to do the same in short order. It's a $30 repair.

That's my 2c.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> I own a Santana tandem with Sweet 16 wheels and it is well know in the tandem forums that there is a patent on the cross spoke design and that Shimano does pay a huge royalty on it. I just don't remember if it was Ritchie, Bontragger or someone else who owns the patent. I think it is Ritchie.


Link? Anything to support what you say? I've gotten so used to reading misinformation from you that I don't give your statements much credence.
For example:
what about your whole "spoke holes start at the centerline of the rim or offset" nonsense? That's complete BS that anyone who has looked at a Stan's or Velocity or WTB or plenty of other rims can plainly see... yet you throw it out there as a statement of fact. ut:
Anyone reading a paragraph you write will have a hard time distinguishing the sentences you completely make up from those that might have a shred of substance.



yourdaguy said:


> If you want to believe that the angling of the spoke holes is a big deal, then you are entitled to hold that opinion, but many, many rims do not have this feature and since when you stress relieve the spokes, they actually bend slightly when confronted with straight nipples and this has no ill effect on spoke life.


Whatever you want to think. Like I said, it's obvious you don't spend much time building or maintaining wheels.


yourdaguy said:


> IF you believe this to be a big issue, then why are you using these rims and hanging out on this thread? You know these rims have straight holes.


Seriously? Because the one and only carbon rims at this price point don't have angled spoke holes and I know that it improves durability I'm not allowed to own the rims or post in this thread?
Why don't you "ask WTB" about the testing they did on the 4D drilling of Frequency rims vs. non-directionally-drilled rims with eyelets? Or ask any of the many manufacturers of rims who do directionally drill why they go to the trouble since yourdaguy who owns a Santana but doesn't do much wheel work knows it to be worthless?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

....


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

USPS just delived my new process rims. Rims look good. Much better than the first 29er set I got from them in December.
They were 374 and 380 grams so quite a bit lighter than advertised. Not sure if I should be happy or worried.
I measured 602 ERD using Sapim 14mm nipples and the wheelspro.co.uk measuring method.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

...


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## spain (May 29, 2005)

FireSpitter said:


> Maybe we should do an email bomb on them to make them realize that this may be the next in-thing!


30mm deep and tubular!! so sweet....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

spain said:


> I sent a mail and she answer:
> 
> Hello sir,
> 
> ...





spain said:


> 30mm deep and tubular!! so sweet....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


I would say so. A set of Twenty9 XC wheels run over $2200 US yet the company recently moved into a new campus in order to ramp up production in order to meet demand (4-6 week backlog). Last season I purchased a set of Enve Twenty9 XC tubulars for my disc cross bike but and would have readily purchased 2-3 sets of LB wheels with rims in a 30mm depth and the XC width.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Got my wheels today and they were perfect. I couldn't find a blemish or imperfection anywhere. 

I have a question though. I started mounting the tires tonight and I'm not sure if I'm on the right track or not. I'm using Maxxis Ardents with the stans tape and sealant. So far all I've done is scuff and clean the rims, install the tape and stems, and mounted the tires. I bought the "injector" so I haven't put any sealant in yet. The rear tire inflated with a compressor and held air fine but the front won't hold air. Is that common until I put the sealant in, or should it hold air before the sealant even goes in? I'm thinking it should hold, but since this is my first time attempting this, I figured I would ask before I load it up with sealant and then break it down again.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

hidperf said:


> Got my wheels today and they were perfect. I couldn't find a blemish or imperfection anywhere.
> 
> I have a question though. I started mounting the tires tonight and I'm not sure if I'm on the right track or not. I'm using Maxxis Ardents with the stans tape and sealant. So far all I've done is scuff and clean the rims, install the tape and stems, and mounted the tires. I bought the "injector" so I haven't put any sealant in yet. The rear tire inflated with a compressor and held air fine but the front won't hold air. Is that common until I put the sealant in, or should it hold air before the sealant even goes in? I'm thinking it should hold, but since this is my first time attempting this, I figured I would ask before I load it up with sealant and then break it down again.


Did you hear the tire pop? sounds to me like your tire is not seated yet. Basically when you inflate the tire, the bead on the tire should move out of the center channel of the rim and press against the side of the rim. Usually when this is happening, the tire will make popping noises. Removing the core first will allow more air to go in the tire and should help to seat the bead. Once the tire pops and the wheel is holding air, you inspect the rim/tire area closely and make sure there is same amount of tire exposed all around the rim. If there is any area that looks like the tire is kind of sucked in then the tire is not seated there. You will either have to pump more air(up to maximum specified by tire and rim manufacturer) or deflate the tire and use some soapy water if you haven't already and try again. You have to keep trying until the tire is seated all the way around on both sides. Then you can add sealant, to add sealant, since you have the injector, you take out the valve core and install the injector, then inject the sealant(try not to break the bead while you are doing this). Then you can air it up and do the turn and shake thing to seal the tire.
If you haven't already, might want to go to notubes.com and check out the videos they have there


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> Did you hear the tire pop? sounds to me like your tire is not seated yet. Basically when you inflate the tire, the bead on the tire should move out of the center channel of the rim and press against the side of the rim. Usually when this is happening, the tire will make popping noises. Removing the core first will allow more air to go in the tire and should help to seat the bead. Once the tire pops and the wheel is holding air, you inspect the rim/tire area closely and make sure there is same amount of tire exposed all around the rim. If there is any area that looks like the tire is kind of sucked in then the tire is not seated there. You will either have to pump more air(up to maximum specified by tire and rim manufacturer) or deflate the tire and use some soapy water if you haven't already and try again. You have to keep trying until the tire is seated all the way around on both sides. Then you can add sealant, to add sealant, since you have the injector, you take out the valve core and install the injector, then inject the sealant(try not to break the bead while you are doing this). Then you can air it up and do the turn and shake thing to seal the tire.
> If you haven't already, might want to go to notubes.com and check out the videos they have there


Yep, watched those videos first. Just wanted some clarification. Funny thing is, the tire that isn't holding air, is the one I heard a pop on. But only one, which leads me to believe only the one side actually seated.

I'll give it another try tomorrow.

Thanks!


----------



## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

hidperf said:


> Got my wheels today and they were perfect. I couldn't find a blemish or imperfection anywhere.
> 
> I have a question though. I started mounting the tires tonight and I'm not sure if I'm on the right track or not. I'm using Maxxis Ardents with the stans tape and sealant. So far all I've done is scuff and clean the rims, install the tape and stems, and mounted the tires. I bought the "injector" so I haven't put any sealant in yet. The rear tire inflated with a compressor and held air fine but the front won't hold air. Is that common until I put the sealant in, or should it hold air before the sealant even goes in? I'm thinking it should hold, but since this is my first time attempting this, I figured I would ask before I load it up with sealant and then break it down again.


It's very common for tires to not hold air without sealant, in fact NONE of mine have. If your getting the tire 'inflated' in the first place, chances are the bead is seated.

Is the tire inflating? How long until it loses air, 10 seconds, 2 minutes or not at all?

When I first installed my tires there was no audible POP until I installed a rhythm strip, but still sealed up just fine with sealant.

Also, even with sealant the tires can be pesky and deflate over a few hours/overnight. Riding around for 15 min can help distribute the sealant, has worked well for me.


----------



## spain (May 29, 2005)

FireSpitter said:


> Maybe we should do an email bomb on them to make them realize that this may be the next in-thing!


Email sent!!


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

ArizRider said:


> It's very common for tires to not hold air without sealant, in fact NONE of mine have. If your getting the tire 'inflated' in the first place, chances are the bead is seated.
> 
> Is the tire inflating? How long until it loses air, 10 seconds, 2 minutes or not at all?
> 
> ...


The rear would inflate fine, but the front would just around the one bead. I used an air nozzle and shot it with a bunch of pressure from my compressor and it held. So then I put the sealant in, pumped them up to 40psi and made sure I swished the sealant all over the tire/rim. Sealed up just fine so far.

I'm hoping to have the bike complete this weekend so I can get out and ride it, so the sealant distributes evenly of course. 

Thanks for all the tips and for letting me know I was heading in the right direction.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I know this is off topic, but if everybody could email bomb them and ask them, it would be really great to get them to make a full-suss 130mm 29er with a thru axle.
if enough people ask they might do it so please help!!!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Finally burped a little air after about a year of riding. I was attempting to wheelie drop a ledge and the rear tire spun out. The drop was followed by a slight turn so nosing down while turning put extreme lateral force on the wheel. I'm actually impressed it didn't taco.

Funny thing though, i didn't notice until a few minutes later when the front tire started running really low on pressure. What happened was that the tire folded all the way sideways and when it snapped back, it trapped a pile of leaves between the tire and the rim bead. The leaves were somewhat soaked with stans at that point.

The fix was quick. I let the air out, pulled the tire back enough to get the leaves out and then hit it with CO2. I was back up and running even before the rest of the riders caught up.

This was with ardent 2.4 and stans yellow tape.

Here's a photo of my futile attempt to scrape the leaves out before giving up and deflating the tire first.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

xc biker said:


> I know this is off topic, but if everybody could email bomb them and ask them, it would be really great to get them to make a full-suss 130mm 29er with a thru axle.
> if enough people ask they might do it so please help!!!


That's how we got them to do 650b rims so quickly...


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

What kind of lead time do they have on rims?


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## rondigs (Nov 23, 2008)

PissedOffCil said:


> What kind of lead time do they have on rims?


I think lead times vary depending on which rims you order. I ordered the new process wider 29" rims on 3/12 and haven't received them. I did get a tracking number last Friday though.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Thanks, Brian mentionned 10 days of manufacturing. It's kinda long but given my 2nd rim choice is out of stock it's equivalent I guess


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## erikrc10 (Apr 27, 2011)

dfiler said:


> Finally burped a little air after about a year of riding. I was attempting to wheelie drop a ledge and the rear tire spun out. The drop was followed by a slight turn so nosing down while turning put extreme lateral force on the wheel. I'm actually impressed it didn't taco.
> 
> Funny thing though, i didn't notice until a few minutes later when the front tire started running really low on pressure. What happened was that the tire folded all the way sideways and when it snapped back, it trapped a pile of leaves between the tire and the rim bead. The leaves were somewhat soaked with stans at that point.
> 
> ...


I did almost this same thing yesterday. Mine was slightly more dramatic though.

I was coming down a super steep section of trail that has a slight drop (maybe 4-5 inches) into a banked hairpin. Lets just say I wasn't holding back and hit it full speed and the front tire gave out as soon as I started into the corner. I was carrying enough momentum that I spun the bars about 90 degrees when the bike tried to slide up the berm. I ended up going down but I wasn't hurt at all. When I got up I had a couple twigs sticking out from between the tire and rim just like you did with the leaves. I also ended up knocking the wheel out of true when I went down which was kind of surprising.

I really need to hurry up and sell this bike so I can stop breaking things on it...

Also a note on the stiffness of these wheels. I have been running the rear wheel that came with the bike (Bontrager Duster) since I cracked the rear rim and I didn't notice a huge increase in stiffness when going to these wheels but going back is a HUGE difference. The back of the bike feels like a wet noodle, the wheel flexes over everything.


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## rondigs (Nov 23, 2008)

Well, mine finally arrived. I got the new process 3k wider AM 29er rims. The weights were heavier than others I've noticed. However, I did not specify wanting a lighter set. I also got the glossy finish. Not sure if that adds any weight...





The projected completion date got extended on several occasions. So I took the opportunity to mention it would be a nice gesture to receive a free carbon bottle holder on behalf of the delay. Yep, ask and you shall receive.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Mine have just shipped. The 10 days lead time transformed into 5!

Good job at L-B!!!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

scottay said:


> They work with I9's...why dont you think they will work with yours?
> .
> .


I was hoping to switch out my Arches for LB's all mountain rim on my i9's with xc hubs and using the original proprietary spokes that came on the wheelset being that the ERD is very close. Is this basically what you did?


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## mtnwater (Jan 7, 2004)

Truly impressive thread - thanks to all who have contributed. I've read many pages (not all) and am pretty convinced the rims are worth it to me. Am I correct in understanding the difference in weave (UD, 3k, 12k) is essentially cosmetic? Some posts (and LB's site) seem to suggest the 3k adds some strength and can prevent flaking at the holes. So what's the recommended weave? fwiw - I'm planning to have a set of the wider 29ers built around a set of King hubs for a RIP 9 build. Is LB still the preferred vendor?


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

That's exactly what I'll be building but in UD finish.

Yes the finish is only cosmetic


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

mtnwater said:


> Truly impressive thread - thanks to all who have contributed. I've read many pages (not all) and am pretty convinced the rims are worth it to me. Am I correct in understanding the difference in weave (UD, 3k, 12k) is essentially cosmetic? Some posts (and LB's site) seem to suggest the 3k adds some strength and can prevent flaking at the holes. So what's the recommended weave? fwiw - I'm planning to have a set of the wider 29ers built around a set of King hubs for a RIP 9 build. Is LB still the preferred vendor?


Got mine a year ago and took a picture on April 15th...



After one year's use on my RIP 9 - they are still as fine as day 1 when I got them.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Got mine a year ago and took a picture on April 15th...

After one year's use on my RIP 9 - they are still as fine as day 1 when I got them.


That right there says a lot. Great to hear.

My rims are at my LBS with my old King hubs waiting for a build.


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

mtnwater said:


> Truly impressive thread - thanks to all who have contributed. I've read many pages (not all) and am pretty convinced the rims are worth it to me. Am I correct in understanding the difference in weave (UD, 3k, 12k) is essentially cosmetic? Some posts (and LB's site) seem to suggest the 3k adds some strength and can prevent flaking at the holes. So what's the recommended weave?


All the rims are UD layers for maximum strength, with some having less strong cosmetic outer layer weave 3K or 12k. 3k does not prevent "flaking", delamination, when spoke holes are drilled. For what it's worth, Enve, Easton, and Reynolds rims are only UD type, no cosmetic weave surface layer.

I have UD rims, matt finish. No issues in 6 months, riding trail nearly every day. Barely any near invisible rock chips. The stiffest and easiest wheels I've ever built using the same spokes and hubs as with aluminum rims.

Watching these threads about Light-Bicycle since late last summer, I can't remember ever seeing damage or delamination defects posted about their UD rims. Ride wear and tear damage posts have been very rare. Nearly all failure posts are from defects, also a very low rate considering the thousands sold to MTBR riders.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

bdundee said:


> I was hoping to switch out my Arches for LB's all mountain rim on my i9's with xc hubs and using the original proprietary spokes that came on the wheelset being that the ERD is very close. Is this basically what you did?


I did this with my I9's, no problems with the build.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

BruceBrown said:


> Got mine a year ago and took a picture on April 15th...
> 
> 
> 
> After one year's use on my RIP 9 - they are still as fine as day 1 when I got them.


 +1

I also just put another set on my new build 

Yes they are that good


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

Has anyone living in the UK ordered these rims? If so, who did you get to build your wheels and how did you work the logistics...? Also, did you pay much import duty??


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## spain (May 29, 2005)

No news about the 30mm profile for mtb?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

derby said:


> All the rims are UD layers for maximum strength, with some having less strong cosmetic outer layer weave 3K or 12k. 3k does not prevent "flaking", delamination, when spoke holes are drilled. For what it's worth, Enve, Easton, and Reynolds rims are only UD type, no cosmetic weave surface layer.
> 
> I have UD rims, matt finish. No issues in 6 months, riding trail nearly every day. Barely any near invisible rock chips. The stiffest and easiest wheels I've ever built using the same spokes and hubs as with aluminum rims.
> 
> Watching these threads about Light-Bicycle since late last summer, I can't remember ever seeing damage or delamination defects posted about their UD rims. Ride wear and tear damage posts have been very rare. Nearly all failure posts are from defects, *also a very low rate considering the thousands sold to MTBR riders.*


Sorry to nitpick, but where did you come up with that? This tread and people posting the defects vs. people saying no problems for X amount of time is a very small percentage of the number of rims they sell.

For all you really know there is a 50% defect rate. A well regarded wheel builder on here has already given pretty poor numbers. Someone gets lucky and has one or 2 good pairs, he had what almost 1/2 of the wheels he was sent to build have had defects. That doesn't speak to low defect rate. I'd take his numbers as more accurate because of purely because of volume.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

If you read through the entire thread (I did and it took weeks) the early reports had lots of defective rims and most of the defects were in the bead seat edge area. Around August, the rate was falling rapidly and by November excluding crashes and one guy putting 75 psi in a rim there were a couple of delam problems around spoke holes and a drilling issue. most of the info has been very positive.

I have 3 sets (6 rims) and they are all very very good with no quality issues. I think I ordered my first around November.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

they seem to have made a huge jump in quality control, and have started using an improved manufacturing method that they say makes them stronger. They seem to be a good brand with good customer service, just as good as American brands. I don't know why you're hating on them.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

xc biker said:


> they seem to have made a huge jump in quality control, and have started using an improved manufacturing method that they say makes them stronger. They seem to be a good brand with good customer service, just as good as American brands. I don't know why you're hating on them.


How old are you? Hating on them? I asked how someone on a forum with no idea how many defects they receive back comes up with a statement " also a very low rate considering the thousands sold to MTBR riders"


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

*Love my carbon LB rims*

I bought some 27.5in 30mm wide LB carbon rims in March. They are awesome, and light. I took them on my normal trails which is a mix of steeps and climbs. They are definitely stiffer than my alum Rovals on my 2011 Sworks Stumpjumper. I laced them up with DT Swiss 240 f/350 r hubs and DT Swiss Competition 2.0/1.8 spokes and alloy nipples. So far I'm very happy, even if after only a couple rides.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Has anyone living in the UK ordered these rims? If so, who did you get to build your wheels and how did you work the logistics...? Also, did you pay much import duty??


They mark them as low value, around 60 dollars so only paid about £30 total max including the handling fee. I built mine up myself (first build) great to work with and make a very straight wheel with a little time and patience. Still going strong and straight after 6-8months hard riding and never had to re-tension.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Has anyone living in the UK ordered these rims? If so, who did you get to build your wheels and how did you work the logistics...? Also, did you pay much import duty??


I've ordered two sets now. A pair of the narrow light-bicycle 29er XC rims April 2012 and another pair of the narrow light-bicycle 29er XC rims in 3k matte carbon which arrived today.

https://www.light-bicycle.com/cross...ng-29er-rim-clincher-tubeless-compatible.html

They were ordered 14 March 2013 and delivered in the UK 16 April 2013 by Parcel Force. A big chunk of that time being due to UK customs. You can track the parcel's progress online all the way from China.










The import duty wasn't much but you have to factor in the administration charge from the courier company also.










The 2013 light-bicycle rims have a different profile to my original rims from 2012. The 2012 rim is quite rounded and smooth whilst the 2013 rim is much more angular. On the outside the 3k matte finish is very similar without any change.










When you look inside the rim it's obvious that the 2013 rims are finished to a high standard. The 2013 rim has a (cosmetic) layer of 3k carbon inside, along with a printed serial number and QC passed sticker. All the spoke holes look to be drilled nicely on both of my 2013 rims. The 2012 rim in contrast inside is much scruffier with lots of marks and filler in the bare carbon.










Probably the biggest change between 2012 and 2013 is in the rim hooks. On the 2012 rim the hooks are quite shallow, there isn't much to them. On the 2013 rim in contrast the rim hooks are some of the biggest I can remember seeing. You can see from the picture above the difference in size. The overhang is massive.

The 2013 rims are in the claimed area weightwise. The narrow 29er XC rims are supposed to weigh 370g +/-10g and my two rims are very close to that.










.


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

^^^ Excellent post WR - repped - did you also build them yourself?



ruscle said:


> They mark them as low value, around 60 dollars so only paid about £30 total max including the handling fee. I built mine up myself (first build) great to work with and make a very straight wheel with a little time and patience. Still going strong and straight after 6-8months hard riding and never had to re-tension.


Hmmm... I may have to purchase a wheel building device and a book on wheel building... :idea:

Did you ask them to mark the rims with a low value ($60 sounds a bit too low though?) or do they send them off like that anyway?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> ^^^ Excellent post WR - repped - did you also build them yourself?
> 
> Hmmm... I may have to purchase a wheel building device and a book on wheel building... :idea:
> 
> Did you ask them to mark the rims with a low value ($60 sounds a bit too low though?) or do they send them off like that anyway?


I have a local wheelbuilder build my wheels.

Both sets of light-bicycle carbon rims that I ordered were marked as low value samples on the packaging, which is why the duty wasn't too bad fortunately. Including shipping and customs charges it worked out at around £150 GBP per rim for the light-bicycle rims to the UK (it will vary a bit due to exchange rate fluctuations, as you're billed in US dollars).

When you buy things from outside the EU, and the full value of the item is marked, the duty charges tend to be horrific. It's made even worse by the "administration" charges that the courier companies frequently slap on.

With a lot of the specialty high end bike parts you're usually best off ordering from Germany if it isn't easy to source in the UK (eg: www.r2-bike.de or www.starbike.com) because it avoids UK customs charges. Virtually anything that I've ordered from the US has had a lot of duty charged on them, making any cost savings none existent.


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

^^ But did you request Nancy to mark the packages "sample - low value" or do L-B do it even if you don't request it (i.e. do they do it for all their packages)?

Thanks for the advice


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

WR304 said:


> I've ordered two sets now. A pair of the narrow light-bicycle 29er XC rims April 2012 and another pair of the narrow light-bicycle 29er XC rims in 3k matte carbon which arrived today.
> 
> *pic*
> 
> ...


Strange. I got my 30mm Carbon 29er rims in May 2012, and they have that angular profile as well... I think. The tire bed area is a matte UD rough finish, like your 2012 rims.



BTW, still going strong, still new looking apart from a few surface scratches. I'm trying to sell a frame to fund another set.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Strange. I got my 30mm Carbon 29er rims in May 2012, and they have that angular profile as well... I think. The tire bed area is a matte UD rough finish, like your 2012 rims.
> 
> BTW, still going strong, still new looking apart from a few surface scratches. I'm trying to sell a frame to fund another set.


My previous rims arrived 13 March 2012. They were marked as $80USD value too. I didn't request it either time so I suspect they mark all shipments like that.

(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims? - Page 29

Despite the scruffy looking interior finish and initial concerns, as at 18 August 2012 I hadn't had any problems with my original light-bicycle carbon rims at all, apart from stone chips. When I crashed last August I was trying to accelerate across a roundabout. My right foot came unclipped from the SPD pedal under full power. My right foot flew forwards and jammed between the front wheel and fork, breaking several spokes in the front wheel. With the front wheel still completely locked by my foot the bike then flipped straight over at 16mph.

I landed on my left shoulder, left hip and left thigh, dislocating my left clavicle and fracturing my left femur. I didn't slide at all, just a hard impact. Fortunately a passer by was able to pull my trapped foot out of the front wheel so that I could crawl out of the busy main road and lie down.










Despite snapping several spokes in the front wheel the carbon rim appears unscathed. It's a tough rim. It's been rebuilt with new spokes but due to the broken leg I haven't been able to do any riding since last August. I'm hoping to get back on a bike sometime later this year.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> ^^ But did you request Nancy to mark the packages "sample - low value" or do L-B do it even if you don't request it (i.e. do they do it for all their packages)?
> 
> Thanks for the advice


No need to request low value, they just mark it at low value as part of the excellent service and understanding of how we get ripped off!!


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## rondigs (Nov 23, 2008)

Mine are done. Looking forward to putting them on dirt.

Build included American classic front hub, DT swiss 240 rear hub, DT swiss super comp spokes and DT black nipples.





1518 grams. Quite near sub 1500...


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## Ragz22 (Mar 10, 2013)

Just got a pair of 26" delivered, 460gm ea rim sent them in to shop to get built up on Hope. can't wait to get them dirty


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## jasonr (Jun 13, 2007)

I am currently waiting on my 2nd set to be delivered. I bought a set of the wider 29er rims towards the end of last year, and so far have ridden about 1k miles on them and have been very pleased with them, I have found them easy to build with, and work tubeless very well. Based on my experience I have decided to upgrade the wheels on my other bike too. All the rims I have bought have been the matt UD style.

The new ones I have bought are made with their new manufacturing process, so it will be interesting to see any difference between these and my original ones. The weight quoted by LB is about 20g per rim lighter.

Rims currently sat in customs...


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## seven-22 (Mar 1, 2007)

Does anyone have experience/advice building the wider carbon 29er rims onto low spoke count hubs? 

I have a Specialized roval 24 hole front and a 28 hole rear hubset I'm considering lacing with these rims. The front hub uses a 2:1 lacing pattern. 

From what I've read in this thread the rims appear to be stiff enough to handle lower spoke counts but I'd appreciate any advice you could offer. 

Thanks.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

How heavy are you seven-22? probably be fine unless you are a clydsdale. Are these disc hubs?


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

seven-22 said:


> Does anyone have experience/advice building the wider carbon 29er rims onto low spoke count hubs?
> 
> I have a Specialized roval 24 hole front and a 28 hole rear hubset I'm considering lacing with these rims. The front hub uses a 2:1 lacing pattern.
> 
> ...


I also have Roval wheels on my 2011 Stumpjumper Sworks with 28 r / 24 f hole pattern. My front wheel is cross 3 on the brake side however. These rims are plenty stiff and strong. I just laced up a pair of 275 LB rims on 28 hole DT 240/350 hubs on my Carbine and they are quite stiff and responsive.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

seven-22 said:


> Does anyone have experience/advice building the wider carbon 29er rims onto low spoke count hubs?
> 
> I have a Specialized roval 24 hole front and a 28 hole rear hubset I'm considering lacing with these rims. The front hub uses a 2:1 lacing pattern.
> 
> ...


If you're light and not hard on wheels then a 28 spoke rear wheel would probably be ok. 24 spoke on the front is maybe pushing it though. I have a 28 spoke front wheel and a 32 spoke rear wheel.

It's worth noting that although Specialized use 24 spoke front / 28 spoke rear on their 26" Roval Control SL carbon wheelsets their 29" Roval Control SL 29 carbon wheelsets use 32 spokes for both the front and rear wheels.

Roval Control SL 26" carbon wheelset (24 spoke front /28 spoke rear)
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/ftb/wheels/roval-mtb-xc-race/roval-control-sl

Roval Control SL 29" carbon wheelset (32 spoke front and rear)
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/ftb/wheels/roval-mtb-xc-race/roval-control-sl-29


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## mmatrix (Aug 20, 2007)

looking to build these rims with a pair of the new straight pull dt 240 CL 
hubs.
to add some bling have been looking for White Straight pull bladed spokes.
any ideas on where to find them. not as common as i have thought.
thanks


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## ErikGBL (Mar 26, 2008)

*Width of Stan's yellow rim tape on wider rim*

I want to try one layer of Stan's yellow tape for tubeless setup. What width of the tape are you using? 21 mm: two mm too narrow, 25 mm: two mm too wide.

Will the tape become significantly more narrow when it is stretched on the rim?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You could probably use either but I would use the wider since it will go out into the bead seat area and make the effective diameter larger so the tire would fit tighter.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i used 21mm did a fairly sloppy job assembling it. seated the tire before putting sealant in and they both held air. surprised me.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

As an alternative to Stans tape, I figure this goes well with the theme of this thread.

Welcome to R.S.Hughes

Other than the color, the only other difference is the price. They can also make a custom width roll for you if you need it.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

Stan's tape is 25mm wide, this 3M stuff is only 24mm. Will this be a problem, especially on rims that call for 25mm tape like the Flow EX or any of the Sun-Ringle stuff that licenses Stan's rim bead designs?

Also comes in ivory see too.

Welcome to R.S.Hughes


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Why not just use gorilla tape?


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

Ilikemtb999 said:


> Why not just use gorilla tape?


That's what I always use on my 23mm internal 27.5 LB rims. The 1" tape works awesome, has never failed me, and is easy to apply. It's also decently thick, so if the tires fit loosely on the rim, I can simply apply another layer or two of Gorilla tape and voila. A custom fit.


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

MntnMan said:


> That's what I always use on my 23mm internal 27.5 LB rims. The 1" tape works awesome, has never failed me, and is easy to apply. It's also decently thick, so if the tires fit loosely on the rim, I can simply apply another layer or two of Gorilla tape and voila. A custom fit.


That's what I use as well. Easily sized too and a roll covers a ton of rims for a whole $6.


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## thelucky1 (Nov 25, 2007)

Four rides in so far on the Light-Bicycle trail 29er rims and I am loving them....

1600 grams total
DtSwiss 240s rear
Chub front
DTSwiss revolution spokes
Orange nipples

For my Tallboy LTc


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

thelucky1 said:


> Four rides in so far on the Light-Bicycle trail 29er rims and I am loving them....
> 
> 1600 grams total
> DtSwiss 240s rear
> ...


I have over a half dozen rides on my tubeless LB 275 rims now with Hans Dampf f and NeoMoto r. The first ride I took it easy to see what they were all about. Stiff, light, responsive. The last four rides I haven't held back on the punishment. I now have tremendous confidence in them, especially after yesterday's 14 mile, 3000 foot Temecula Winery ride filled with 35mph hack-infested bomber downhills. These are the real deal. Love them.


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## thelucky1 (Nov 25, 2007)

MntnMan said:


> I have over a half dozen rides on my tubeless LB 275 rims now with Hans Dampf f and NeoMoto r. The first ride I took it easy to see what they were all about. Stiff, light, responsive. The last four rides I haven't held back on the punishment. I now have tremendous confidence in them, especially after yesterday's 14 mile, 3000 foot Temecula Winery ride filled with 35mph hack-infested bomber downhills. These are the real deal. Love them.


truth.


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

OK so I think I'm convinced now. Going for the 29er wider (AM) rims, but can someone please explain the difference in the finishes to choose from?

I checked the LB website but that wasn't clear on what the pros and cons of the 3K, 12K and UD are. Also the pics don't look very life-like.

(I know, I'm a lazy sh!t but I can't be bothered to go through up to 146 pages here to find out... sorry)


----------



## thelucky1 (Nov 25, 2007)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> OK so I think I'm convinced now. Going for the 29er wider (AM) rims, but can someone please explain the difference in the finishes to choose from?
> 
> I checked the LB website but that wasn't clear on what the pros and cons of the 3K, 12K and UD are. Also the pics don't look very life-like.
> 
> (I know, I'm a lazy sh!t but I can't be bothered to go through up to 146 pages here to find out... sorry)


I think it's personal preference, I have the 3k weave in matte finish...another pic:


----------



## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

UD is nude carbon, like the Enves and Eastons. No 3k/12k weave (purely cosmetic BTW). thelucky1 and I have 3k, which is what you'll see on Roval carbon wheels as well as a lot of road wheels. But like lucky1 said, it's purely personal preference. I like the bling of the 3k. Nuf said.


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

MntnMan said:


> UD is nude carbon, like the Enves and Eastons. No 3k/12k weave (purely cosmetic BTW). thelucky1 and I have 3k, which is what you'll see on Roval carbon wheels as well as a lot of road wheels. But like lucky1 said, it's purely personal preference. I like the bling of the 3k. Nuf said.


Thanks. And the matte finish - is that optional too?


----------



## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Yes, matte finish is the third option.


----------



## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

thelucky1 said:


> View attachment 792903
> 
> 
> I think it's personal preference, I have the 3k weave in matte finish...another pic:


Sorry to harp on about this, but thelucky1 says he has 3k weave in matte finish, so seems like a combination of options?

On the LB website they just offer 3K, 12K and UD as far as I can tell... is the matte finish in addition to either one of these?


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Sorry to harp on about this, but thelucky1 says he has 3k weave in matte finish, so seems like a combination of options?
> 
> On the LB website they just offer 3K, 12K and UD as far as I can tell... is the matte finish in addition to either one of these?


Yes. I got Matte 3k and they look awesome (IMO). They aren't super carbon-y looking. They don't stick out like a sore thumb screaming, 'Look at my mufuggin carbon rimZZZ!!" like I think the 12k weave would. Of course, the UD in Matte finish would be the ultimate stealth look.

Yeah, I love 'em, even though I sucked at Sea Otter XC CAT2 SS class. At least I know it wasn't the rim that held me back, it was my own lazy no-training ass that did.


----------



## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Sorry to harp on about this, but thelucky1 says he has 3k weave in matte finish, so seems like a combination of options?
> 
> On the LB website they just offer 3K, 12K and UD as far as I can tell... is the matte finish in addition to either one of these?


Matte and gloss are the clearcoat paint finishes. These are completely separate from the UD (nude carbon), 3k weave, and 12k weave. Underneath the 3k and 12k cosmetic layer are nude carbon. 3k and 12k are like wallpaper on a wall. No wallpaper would be UD. Just plain old black carbon. Now go order them already!!


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

00XJCO said:


> As an alternative to Stans tape, I figure this goes well with the theme of this thread.
> 
> Welcome to R.S.Hughes
> 
> Other than the color, the only other difference is the price. They can also make a custom width roll for you if you need it.


Yes indeed, the "price" is quite different. I won't make that mistake again.:madman:
(A heads-up to those who might consider ordering online)


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

KLF said:


> Yes indeed, the "price" is quite different. I won't make that mistake again.:madman:
> (A heads-up to those who might consider ordering online)


S&H on my order was $5.
It's probably still cheaper than Stan's. The roll is 60m; enough for ~30 wheels.


----------



## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> S&H on my order was $5.
> It's probably still cheaper than Stan's. The roll is 60m; enough for ~30 wheels.


$5 for S&H, while a lot on a sub-$4 item, is a typical minimum and is what I might have expected.
But even when I called them to complain about the $22 charge (and there's no shipping estimate when placing the order) they agreed there was a mistake and the shipping _should_ have been a mere _*$13*_
I cancelled the order (we'll see how that goes). In any case, I expect there are other better sources than Hughes.

But this wasn't for my LB wheels, which have been dandy since late last fall.


----------



## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Got my LB rims today! I'll try to build them tomorrow but more likely it'll be on wednesday.

At least the snow has melted so I can try them later this week, on the road...


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Is everyone mostly building your own wheels? What was the shipping time to get the rims? I'm pretty close to getting some 29er hoops now...


----------



## eclipse24 (Jan 14, 2012)

I ordered mine today, so the wait begins. 29er wide, 3k, matte. Gives me a few weeks to decide on hubs.


----------



## evenflo (Apr 23, 2013)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Is everyone mostly building your own wheels? What was the shipping time to get the rims? I'm pretty close to getting some 29er hoops now...


Busted my rear Crest two weeks ago Tue. Ordered three 29er wider/3k/matte on Wed. On my door the following Wed.



gdtrfb24 said:


> I ordered mine today, so the wait begins. 29er wide, 3k, matte. Gives me a few weeks to decide on hubs.


Maybe not. :thumbsup:

Oh yea, howdy folks.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

KLF said:


> $5 for S&H, while a lot on a sub-$4 item, is a typical minimum and is what I might have expected.
> But even when I called them to complain about the $22 charge (and there's no shipping estimate when placing the order) they agreed there was a mistake and the shipping _should_ have been a mere _*$13*_
> I cancelled the order (we'll see how that goes). In any case, I expect there are other better sources than Hughes.


So you'd rather go to Stan's website and pay $13.50 for the tape and $7 shipping than $4 for tape and $13 shipping for a roll >5x as long. Makes sense. ut:


----------



## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> So you'd rather go to Stan's website and pay $13.50 for the tape and $7 shipping than $4 for tape and $13 shipping for a roll >5x as long. Makes sense. ut:


I neither said nor implied any such thing. :nono:


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I paid $15 delivered for a roll of 25mm stans tape. But does it really matter how much the tape cost when there are over twenty thousand dollars of bikes in my basement? 

With that said, it has been over a year of riding on light-bicycle rims and i've yet to take a tire off of the rim. I can't recommend these things enough!


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

KLF said:


> I neither said nor implied any such thing. :nono:


Just providing perspective on the relative cost, which is less than a fifth of the cost per wheel as Stan's tape (not an insignificant detail, IMO) while you seemed hung up on the shipping-to-item cost.
If you find a better source, post up.
:thumbsup:


----------



## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Just providing perspective on the relative cost, which is less than a fifth of the cost per wheel as Stan's tape (not an insignificant detail, IMO) while you seemed hung up on the shipping-to-item cost.
> If you find a better source, post up.
> :thumbsup:


Dude, your quote was "So _*you'd*_ rather go to Stan's website ...."

If you aren't intending to be argumentative or confrontational, consider expressing yourself more accurately.
So when and where did YOU get $5 S&H on the 3M tape?


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

KLF said:


> Dude, your quote was "So _*you'd*_ rather go to Stan's website ...."
> 
> If you aren't intending to be argumentative or confrontational, consider expressing yourself more accurately.


Point taken.
Counterpoint: consider absorbing the information and not getting offended.
Whether the shipping is $5 or $13, the bottom line is that it is *significantly cheaper per wheel than any other option available*, including the $3+tax shitty roll of Gorilla tape at Home Depot, but you canceled your order because the shipping seemed unreasonable and you want better.
Good luck. :thumbsup:


KLF said:


> So when and where did YOU get $5 S&H on the 3M tape?


R.S. Hughes


----------



## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Point taken.
> Counterpoint: consider absorbing the information and not getting offended.
> The tape as quoted is *significantly cheaper per wheel than any other option available*, including the $3+tax roll of Gorilla tape available at Home Depot, but you canceled your order because the shipping seemed unreasonable and you want better.
> Good luck. :thumbsup:
> ...


Um, no. The tape was not something I needed urgently and I canceled the order primarily because I felt the Hughes website is misleading. Among other things is the bold legend at the top proclaiming "No minimum order." And then there's the fact that they don't even provide an estimate of shipping before completing an order. 
Even their phone representative openly conceded that they have a problem with disproportionate shipping costs but that she had no authority to address the issue.

I'm sure the 3M tape is fine stuff, but there must be a better place than Hughes to get it. (Assuming that one actually has use for the 5X quantity)

In any case, we now know that your $5 S/H from Hughes is no longer accurate information. Just be forewarned about the $13 or more you'll be paying to have the next roll shipped unless they overhaul their shipping practices.

And no, I wasn't offended and never said nor suggested that I was. But I do find it strange how you make erroneous assumptions and statements about what others are thinking and/or their motivations. _My_ perspective is that you are a little caught up with yourself. 
I do appreciate your compiling the 29er tire database.

How 'bout we get back to Chinese carbon rims/wheels? I'm liking 'em.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

KLF said:


> I'm sure the 3M tape is fine stuff, but there must be a better place than Hughes to get it. (Assuming that one actually has use for the 5X quantity)


Let me know when you find it. A fellow MTBR member turned me onto R.S. Hughes after I gave up on trying to find it. Speaking of minimum orders, the only way I could find it was in minimum orders of a case (12 rolls), and it still came out to ~$9 per roll I think.



KLF said:


> In any case, we now know that your $5 S/H from Hughes is no longer accurate information. Just be forewarned about the $13 or more you'll be paying to have the next roll shipped unless they overhaul their shipping practices.


And as I have repeatedly pointed out, it will still be cheaper per wheel than anything else out there. :thumbsup:



KLF said:


> And no, I wasn't offended and never said nor suggested that I was. But I do find it strange how you make erroneous assumptions and statements about what others are thinking and/or their motivations.


I was making the point about cost.
Since you're into hair splitting, I made no assumptions, I asked a question about what you'd rather do. My "counterpoint" only asked that you consider not getting offended. It did not assume that you were. :thumbsup:


KLF said:


> _My_ perspective is that you are a little caught up with yourself.


I couldn't give a s**t about your perspective of me if I worked at it for a week, but thanks for the unsolicited offering on my online personality. It is obvious that your only motivation is clarity and unit-pricing awareness. 


KLF said:


> I do appreciate your compiling the 29er tire database.


Glad you could make use of it. Like most of my postings here, I did it for the benefit/information of the community.


KLF said:


> How 'bout we get back to Chinese carbon rims/wheels?


You started the conversation about shipping charges on tape, but whatever floats your boat.


----------



## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

Ahem. Sorry to interject here. I was looking at another thread discussing LB rims. They say a Bontrager rim strip has to be used with these rims for tubeless. But I'm understanding from this thread that tape is sufficient (whether it be from R.S. Hughes or Stans - sorry I'm causing trouble here ;-) )

Is that the case?


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Ahem. Sorry to interject here. I was looking at another thread discussing LB rims. They say a Bontrager rim strip has to be used with these rims for tubeless. But I'm understanding from this thread that tape is sufficient (whether it be from R.S. Hughes or Stans - sorry I'm causing trouble here ;-) )
> 
> Is that the case?


I had more issues with leaking out of my Bontrager TLR strips than I did out of a taped wheel (I did a front-and-back comparison).
Dunking wheels only sometimes shows you where the leak is... other times air travels in the rim cavity to a place other than where it is leaking in.
It also gets water into your rim. :nono:
I decided to tape with the 8898 then put the TLR strip in for the bead lock profile.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

There are some vocal advocates of bontrager strips. However there are also lots of posts from people for whom tape has worked perfectly. 

Tape has been flawless for me. Even when I landed a drop so crooked that the tire folded all the way over and trapped leaves between the rim and tire. It took a few minutes for the pressure to drop low enough for me to even notice the trapped leaves. The fix was to let the air out, remove the leaves and hit it with CO2. It took like a minute.

The other time i've flatted over the last year is when I let the stans dry up and I got a large puncture in the tire itself. I got myself home by pumping up the tire, riding until there was zero pressure left, and then repeating the process over and over again. Even when running down to zero pressure, the bead never came loose! Pretty amazing really.


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> Let me know when you find it. A fellow MTBR member turned me onto R.S. Hughes after I gave up on trying to find it. Speaking of minimum orders, the only way I could find it was in minimum orders of a case (12 rolls), and it still came out to ~$9 per roll I think.
> 
> And as I have repeatedly pointed out, it will still be cheaper per wheel than anything else out there. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Yes, simple factual information, dollars and cents. 
And you HAD to respond because....?

Some folks might want to know the full picture of what they're getting into. 
In other words - when is a $4 roll of tape NOT a $4 roll of tape? 
You are obviously frugal, I am, and I assume others are too. 
This is a thread about cheap Chinese rims. Did I miss something?

There's a saying, "Reasonable minds may differ." I suspect you're not familiar with that.

As I said, you seem to be quite caught up with yourself.
If one has just a pair (or even 4) rims to tape, it may more cost effective to just do the Gorilla Tape thing (or something else) with a single $3 roll purchase, rather than a one time $20 purchase. 
But you can feel warm and fuzzy about the fact that you will still have leftover tape sitting idly for the next few years.

'Bye:thumbsup:

PS As an FYI there is a product called "Hurricane Tape" that can be readily found (or ordered through) many national hardware chains. 
See Hurricane Tape 1"x60yd: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
It is available in 1" width and 60 yd rolls. I have used it for rim tape and it's strong enough for road rims with just a single layer, even though it's much thinner and lighter than, for example, Gorilla Tape. 
It fits well in the wide LB rims _*BUT*_ I have not tried it for tubeless. But it's darn cheap and is probably worth a shot.


----------



## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

Yeah I've never used rim strips on my other rims - only tape. Has worked well for me, but was just wondering about these LB rims. Really don't want to have to use rim strips. They're too darn expensive and a hassle.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Ahem. Sorry to interject here. I was looking at another thread discussing LB rims. They say a Bontrager rim strip has to be used with these rims for tubeless. But I'm understanding from this thread that tape is sufficient (whether it be from R.S. Hughes or Stans - sorry I'm causing trouble here ;-) )
> 
> Is that the case?


See post #131 of this _mega_-thread.

If security and trusting your equipment is a must, I cannot argue with the conclusion that the Bonty strip provides that. I just exchanged my rear Nobby Nic for a Renegade 2.3 and the Nic was so glued on there and secure with the strip, it took me a good 10 minutes to get it off the rim. And the Renegade went on super snug and aired up with one pump of a floor pump.

Others say it is not needed. That's fine. The insurance policy of a 40 some odd gram strip ($9.99) for a stress free and super seal may or may not be worth it to you, but it is to me.


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Yeah I've never used rim strips on my other rims - only tape. Has worked well for me, but was just wondering about these LB rims. Really don't want to have to use rim strips. They're too darn expensive and a hassle.


While I have not used the LB rims tubeless, I have had a handful of different tires on them and can vouch for some being very snug while others are not. I doubt that the Bontrager strip would be much help (or even usable) with the snuggest ones. Panaracer Driver Pro was the snuggest - hard to get off without using two tire levers (something I have not had to do in years). A non-UST Maxxis Crossmark was the loosest. Schwalbe RR, Conti RK and XK were all pretty similar. YMMV


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

rshughes.com is a gyp. I ordered 2 rolls at $5 each and the total was $10. They never sent me the final total until the time the package showed up. It was an astounding $27.85. Close to triple and the UPS cost was only actually about $8.00. I am certain there are much better places to buy Scotch products.


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> rshughes.com is a gyp. I ordered 2 rolls at $5 each and the total was $10. They never sent me the final total until the time the package showed up. It was an astounding $27.85. Close to triple and the UPS cost was only actually about $8.00. I am certain there are much better places to buy Scotch products.


I hear ya'!


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> rshughes.com is a gyp. I ordered 2 rolls at $5 each and the total was $10. They never sent me the final total until the time the package showed up. It was an astounding $27.85. Close to triple and the UPS cost was only actually about $8.00. I am certain there are much better places to buy Scotch products.


Amazon has the 24mm tape for $4.25 and free shipping if you have amazon prime.

Scotch Film Strapping Tape 8898 Ivory, 24 mm x 55 m (Pack of 1): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

KLF said:


> Yes, simple factual information, dollars and cents.
> And you HAD to respond because....?
> 
> Some folks might want to know the full picture of what they're getting into.
> ...


The continued personal comments say more about you than me.
If you only want to tape four rims it doesn't make sense to be looking at a 60 m roll of tape anyway. problem solved
The unit cost (cost per wheel) is just another fact in the equation to be considered, which is all I pointed out.


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## KLF (Apr 29, 2007)

pwu_1 said:


> Amazon has the 24mm tape for $6 something and free shipping if you have amazon prime


is that this?: Scotch Film Strapping Tape 8898 Ivory, 24 mm x 55 m (Pack of 1): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Looks like it's sub $10 even _with_ shipping.:thumbsup:
That's in the realm of reasonable. 
And that should be the correct width for the LB wide rims.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pwu_1 said:


> Amazon has the 24mm tape for $4.25 and free shipping if you have amazon prime.
> 
> Scotch Film Strapping Tape 8898 Ivory, 24 mm x 55 m (Pack of 1): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


great find! (+) rep for you :thumbsup:


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

yourdaguy said:


> rshughes.com is a gyp. I ordered 2 rolls at $5 each and the total was $10. They never sent me the final total until the time the package showed up. It was an astounding $27.85. Close to triple and the UPS cost was only actually about $8.00. I am certain there are much better places to buy Scotch products.


Gyp is a racist term, meaning 'Gypsied'. Just sayin'.


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

pimpbot said:


> Gyp is a racist term, meaning 'Gypsied'. Just sayin'.


Since when is a gypsy a race? I would consider it a derogatory term but its certainly not racist lol


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Ilikemtb999 said:


> Since when is a gypsy a race? I would consider it a derogatory term but its certainly not racist lol


Gypsies are a race of people (an ancient one), and the term in question is racist as well as being derogatory.

Names of the Romani people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Gee and all my life I thought I wasn't a racist and I haven't been a racist but now some guy on the internet says I am a racist so I guess going forward I have to be a racist.

Anyway according to this it is only probably from Gypsy: gyp - definition of gyp by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

And there is good evidence there also that the same word has a British and New Zeeland origin and since I am English, Irish, and German and that is where I got the word from; my English/Irish father who didn't have a racist bone in his body but uttered the word many times during his life.

I think someone that calls someone a racist on such scant evidence has issues.


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Gypsies are a race of people (an ancient one), and the term in question is racist as well as being derogatory.
> 
> Names of the Romani people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


That would be an ethnicity; it even states it in your wiki link. There's a difference. 
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethnicity_vs_Race


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Ilikemtb999 said:


> That would be an ethnicity; it even states it in your wiki link. There's a difference.
> Ethnicity vs Race - Difference and Comparison | Diffen


The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) states a 'gipsy' is a
member of a wandering race (by themselves called Romany), of Indian origin, which first appeared in England about the beginning of the 16th c.

From the same link.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

F'ing rain makes these boards a **** show. 

The next bike project is 27.5 for the wife. Going with the LB rims, 28h dt Swiss 240, brass nipples and dt revolutions. 

Does Bontrager make a 27.5 rim strip?


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Adroit Rider said:


> F'ing rain makes these boards a **** show.
> 
> The next bike project is 27.5 for the wife. Going with the LB rims, 28h dt Swiss 240, brass nipples and dt revolutions.
> 
> Does Bontrager make a 27.5 rim strip?


Not yet AFAIK. With Bontrager rolling out b tires I would think it is just a matter of time. It would bear some investigation though.


----------



## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

Dirty $anchez said:


> The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) states a 'gipsy' is a
> member of a wandering race (by themselves called Romany), of Indian origin, which first appeared in England about the beginning of the 16th c.
> 
> From the same link.


tr.v. gypped also gipped, gyp·ping also gip·ping, gyps also gips
To deprive (another) of something by fraud; cheat or swindle.
n.
1. A fraud or swindle.
2. One who defrauds; a swindler.

He didn't say gypsy, he said gyp - it's a different word altogether and I don't think he can be accused of any slur...

...except of course against RSHughes, which by the sounds of it is probably fair.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

I think this thread has jumped the effing shark in the last week. Freakin lame. Adroit, thank you for trying to rescue it.


----------



## roadie scum (Jan 21, 2011)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> tr.v. gypped also gipped, gyp·ping also gip·ping, gyps also gips
> To deprive (another) of something by fraud; cheat or swindle.
> n.
> 1. A fraud or swindle.
> ...


The phrase is derived from the word Gypsy which makes it deragetory but thanks for playing.


----------



## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Adroit Rider said:


> F'ing rain makes these boards a **** show.
> 
> The next bike project is 27.5 for the wife. Going with the LB rims, 28h dt Swiss 240, brass nipples and dt revolutions.
> 
> Does Bontrager make a 27.5 rim strip?


Bontrager does not have a rhythm strip for 650B wheels yet. I'm hoping they will come out with them soon.

I have 4 sets of the wider LB wheels, 2 sets are 29er and the other 2 are 26 and 650B. I used bontrager rhythm strips for everything except the 650B wheels which are using the Stans yellow tape since rhythm strips aren't available in that size. I don't know if its a coincidence or tire choice(26 and 29 wheels are on Schwalbe tubeless ready tires and 650B is on Pacentti Neo-Moto) but the 650B took the most sealant and time to seal. 
The hardest wheels to seat the bead were the 26 wheels but with the rhythm strips, even though the bead wasn't seated completely, the tire lost very little air over something like a 12 hour time period. Because of that, personally I'd rather take the weight penalty and use the strips. If/when bontrager comes out with the rhythm strips for 650B I will put those in my 650B wheels as well.


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Yeah I've never used rim strips on my other rims - only tape. Has worked well for me, but was just wondering about these LB rims. Really don't want to have to use rim strips. They're too darn expensive and a hassle.


Speaking in general terms&#8230;. The consensus is...

Rim tape works for some (or many?) tires.

Bont strips allows you to use most tires.

I have three bikes (two with LB rims and one with Stan's Arch rims). All three bikes have Specialized 2Bliss tires. All three run just the rim tape and work flawlessly.


----------



## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

why are we arguing about tape and gypsies on a carbon wheel thread?


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

xc biker said:


> why are we arguing about tape and gypsies on a carbon wheel thread?


That's how MTBR rolls.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

roadie scum said:


> The phrase is derived from the word Gypsy which makes it deragetory but thanks for playing.


Zactly. That's my point. Being Jewish isn't exactly a race either, but I hear folks use 'Jew' as a verb, and that's the same thing. Okay, not technically racist, but certainly bigoted in origin.

Do what you want with that info.


----------



## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

pwu_1 said:


> Amazon has the 24mm tape for $4.25 and free shipping if you have amazon prime.
> 
> Scotch Film Strapping Tape 8898 Ivory, 24 mm x 55 m (Pack of 1): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


I have Prime but seeing $7.38 Eligible for free shipping with Amazon Prime???


----------



## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

eurospek said:


> I have Prime but seeing $7.38 Eligible for free shipping with Amazon Prime???


Dang they jacked up the price. It was $4.25 last night


----------



## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

They've seen us coming for it.


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## 7HVN (Jun 25, 2004)

*Bontrager Valves?*

Are u guys using the Bontrager valves with the Bonty strips? 
Are the Bonty valves worth $7 each?


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

7HVN said:


> Are u guys using the Bontrager valves with the Bonty strips?
> Are the Bonty valves worth $7 each?


NoTubes are $8 each - so the price for the Bonty valves (actually listed at MSRP of $6.50 each) isn't that bad. The Bonty valve fits nicely in the slot for the valve whereas the NoTubes has a rubber gasket attached which may not fit as easily (I haven't tried since I use the Bonty valves with the strips).

Personally, I'd go with the cheaper Bonty valves as they are designed to fit with the strip.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Stan's valves work great. You really have to tighten them down in order to have enough sticking out to get the Stan's injector to screw on tight. Once you do this though, you have the shortest possible exposed valve and a totally leak free valve/strip interface. I can generally land a pair of Stan's valves for around $12 so next time I will see how much I can land the Bonty valves for.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

or you can just cut the valves from an old tube
workes great.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> I think someone that calls someone a racist on such scant evidence has issues.


Nobody said you are racist, only that the words you used are. This is a common hypersensitivity online. Confusing clear language to mean something it doesn't so you can accuse somebody of having "issues" is weak.

The way you used the term and the colloquial British term are different and don't have the same origin.
Would you be surprised at the reaction if you had used the word "jew"? It would be exactly the same thing.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

saruti said:


> or you can just cut the valves from an old tube
> workes great.


This. I'm pretty convinced Stan's valves are just purchased before they make it into tubes. Seems pretty obvious if you cut one out and look at it.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Finally got to build my wheelset.

Wide rims on CK hubs laced with 32 DT Comp spokes and alu nipples.
The front weighs 780g and the rear 945g, pretty good!!!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

yourdaguy said:


> Gee and all my life I thought I wasn't a racist and I haven't been a racist but now some guy on the internet says I am a racist so I guess going forward I have to be a racist.
> 
> Anyway according to this it is only probably from Gypsy: gyp - definition of gyp by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
> 
> ...


BTW, I never said anybody was a racist. I just said 'gyp' is a racist word. What I really meant to say it was a bigoted word.


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## KevinNZ (May 24, 2009)

How did your testing Moab? Your feedback will back be great.


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## DirtRoadie (Sep 15, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> great find! (+) rep for you :thumbsup:


You should like this then:
FindTape.com Search Results for 'tensilized polypropylene '
A greater choice of widths and thicknesses.

What'd _I_ win?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Seems like there is a lot of angst put into selecting tape and valves, etc. 

To summarize this thread: Any tape or valve works and all options are nearly free compared to the price of the bike. Pick any and enjoy!


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

I rode mine today on an XC race course with some gnarly high G downhill berm'd descents. 

I had a leak in one of my tires from not enough time to let the sealant do it's work and was at 16psi (181lbs) and rode 7k hard on them with no issues. Smashed the rim off rocks and the ground multiple times, and rolled the tire several times causing a loud tire squirm noise and the bead never burped, and the rim took it like a champion.

My buddy taco'd his expensive DT swiss xc race aluminum front wheel on his new Scott Scale RC after a small crash where he went over the bars at high speed at the course (no impacts), carbon FTW.

Also using 1 layer of Gorilla Tape, no rim strip jazz.


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## quote (Aug 11, 2012)

Where are you guys buying from these days? I looked back a few pages and don't see any recent links.

I'm also 245lbs (goal weight of 200), so I'm wonder what options you guys would recommend as far as spoke holes and such. I ride South Florida XC trails.


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

quote said:


> Where are you guys buying from these days? I looked back a few pages and don't see any recent links.
> 
> I'm also 245lbs (goal weight of 200), so I'm wonder what options you guys would recommend as far as spoke holes and such. I ride South Florida XC trails.


Most of the chatter on this thread seems to relate to the Light Bicycle Company


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

quote said:


> Where are you guys buying from these days? I looked back a few pages and don't see any recent links.
> 
> I'm also 245lbs (goal weight of 200), so I'm wonder what options you guys would recommend as far as spoke holes and such. I ride South Florida XC trails.


Light-bicycle.com

I'm 200+ and I went with the wider stronger 29 rim, 32 hole. For $7.00 a rim they will build a 'stronger' version with about 20-30 grams more carbon. 
I've found the rims to be strong and stiff. I'm not taking it easy on them. I like the sleeper look of the matte UD finish.


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## MondoRides (Feb 18, 2004)

*Finally placed my order...*

After a year+ of lurking in this thread and reading every last post I've finally pulled the trigger on the wider 29" UD matte new process rims. I've been sitting on a set of Chris King hubs for the last year while mulling over rim options. Placed my order last night and received a response from "Nancy" this morning apologizing for the late reply due to the May Day holidays (April 29th through May 1st). I'd say that's pretty good service even if they weren't closed for the holiday :thumbsup:

I'll be sure to give back to this thread with pics and feedback on my experience as well once received, built and ridden. Thanks!


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

which rims are most of using for xc hardtails? I was thinking of the narrower version with 32 spoke lacing front and back. I weigh 175lbs. thx pete


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

peterk123 said:


> which rims are most of using for xc hardtails? I was thinking of the narrower version with 32 spoke lacing front and back. I weigh 175lbs. thx pete


180lbs and running the wider rims (two sets)


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I think most people like the wider rims, and if I'm not mistaken they are also lighter


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

xc biker said:


> I think most people like the wider rims, and if I'm not mistaken they are also lighter


According to their website the XC rims are 370g and the "wider" are 390g.
All three of my wides were in the mid 380s


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

peterk123 said:


> which rims are most of using for xc hardtails? I was thinking of the narrower version with 32 spoke lacing front and back. I weigh 175lbs. thx pete


Get the wide ones. Run lighter tires.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

peterk123 said:


> which rims are most of using for xc hardtails? I was thinking of the narrower version with 32 spoke lacing front and back. I weigh 175lbs. thx pete


I went for wider AM ones with the regular carbon build, not the heavy duty build. I'm 210 and ride pretty much XC kinda stuff with some rock gardens thrown in. So far, they are holding up great. Still tight as the day I built them, they feel stiff and make the bike feel very point and shoot.

Yeah, for the 385g-ish weight for the wider one, built with 32 spokes, it's hard to go wrong. They feel stiffer than any other rim I have owned, even ones weighing more than 100g more. Saving an extra 20g to be noodley and with more tire squirm (from being narrower) doesn't seem like a good trade off to me. At 385g, you're already saving around 100g over regular aluminum XC narrow rims, like a DT Swiss X470, a Sun Inferno23, or a Bontrager Mustang OSB 29er, and gaining a crapload of stiffness.


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks. I just found this thread. I am considering building a bike from the frame up and was researching the chinese carbon frames when I stumbled onto this. It seems like the quality is there for wheels and frames these days.


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## bowseruni (Jun 17, 2012)

Ordered some 650b wheels today, can't wait to see what they are like


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## Njhardrock (Feb 17, 2013)

Does anyone have experience with there frames? Sorry to hijack.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Njhardrock said:


> Does anyone have experience with there frames? Sorry to hijack.


Try the multiple threads on the frames, but there plenty of experience in it.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

bowseruni said:


> Ordered some 650b wheels today, can't wait to see what they are like


Small.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

hillharman said:


> Get the wide ones. Run lighter tires.


^^^^^
Yes!


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Wider rims are where it's at in terms of ground control. Lets you run tires at much lower pressure.

Wider rims are where rims are going. Syntace is there. Like clipless pedals, suspension, 275 and 29" wheels - it's only a matter of time until riders catch on to the benefits, then the market will demand it.

Hear that LB? 

Lets get going on the wider rims. Internal width of 30mm should be a minimum.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Miker J said:


> Wider rims are where it's at in terms of ground control. Lets you run tires at much lower pressure.
> 
> Wider rims are where rims are going. Syntace is there. Like clipless pedals, suspension, 275 and 29" wheels - it's only a matter of time until riders catch on to the benefits, then the market will demand it.
> 
> ...


lol, I agree about wider rims. The benefits of wider rims are slowly but surely being realized by the riding public.

Clippless and suspension don't fall into that category. You'll notice that a lot of the most skilled riders on the trail are riding hardtail or rigid, and many of them are on platforms. There is a lot of social pressure to ride clipless, yet... well that's a completely off-topic rant. Rant aborted.

So yes, definitely get the wider light-bicycle rims. With a 23mm internal width, there is no downside other than a tiny increase in weight. At some point wider than that, the tradeoffs would become a debatable. But at 23mm, there is no logical reason not to opt for the wider version.


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## eclipse24 (Jan 14, 2012)

Received email from Brian my rims have shipped and I should have them in four days. He added, Btw, the rims weights are 386g and 392g.


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## bowseruni (Jun 17, 2012)

I had had 3 emails from him now about my wheels, talk about mixed up english.
I think I am getting the rear thru bolt but not the front, time will tell I guess


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## tezi (Dec 20, 2012)

I would like to get these rims as well and use my current hubs and spokes, is it possible? I'm now running with DT-swiss x 1600 spline wheelset and already managed to trash the back rim. All it took was one hit. Now the wheel is true but the spoke tension is way off.. Next bigger hit will be devastating. 
If I oder 28 hole version which I have now, are the spokes the same length? I guess I will even get lighter wheelset with these carbon rims, although I have no clue what the original rim weights. The wheelset totals 1770 g and the rim is really narrow (18mm inside width).


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## bowseruni (Jun 17, 2012)

quick question, my 2013 reign 2 takes a 9x135QR rear hub, am I able to make 10X135QR hubs work?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

bowseruni said:


> quick question, my 2013 reign 2 takes a 9x135QR rear hub, am I able to make 10X135QR hubs work?


No, you do not have a 9x135 rear hub because there are no 9mm rear axles. Period.

All open dropout mtb frames use 10x135QR rear hubs


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## bowseruni (Jun 17, 2012)

Will my frame allow me to swap for a 10x135 thru axle rather than a QR?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Tezi: in order to determine the spoke length you need you need to use a spoke calculator. If the inside diameter of the nipple seats on the rim is the same (This measurement is know as ERD.) the calculation will give the same spoke length. The ERD of these 29er wide rims is IIRC 602 as actually measured (I think there website says 603). You need to find the ERD of your current rims if it is the same, you are good to go. If it is different, you will need to use the spoke calculator and plug in the all the information such as flange offset, cross, etc. to see how close your current spokes will be to working.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

bowseruni said:


> Will my frame allow me to swap for a 10x135 thru axle rather than a QR?


Yes!!


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## tezi (Dec 20, 2012)

yourdaguy said:


> Tezi: in order to determine the spoke length you need you need to use a spoke calculator. If the inside diameter of the nipple seats on the rim is the same (This measurement is know as ERD.) the calculation will give the same spoke length. The ERD of these 29er wide rims is IIRC 602 as actually measured (I think there website says 603). You need to find the ERD of your current rims if it is the same, you are good to go. If it is different, you will need to use the spoke calculator and plug in the all the information such as flange offset, cross, etc. to see how close your current spokes will be to working.


Thanks for the quick reply! I have to dig and try to find the ERD-number for my current wheelset. I found already that it has 306mm and 307mm spokes.

Edit: It seems to be 606 so I would need about one mm longer spokes.. Do you have any idea if it works with my current spokes. I can always get new nipples to deal with (if they can add the extra reach?)


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

tezi said:


> Do you have any idea if it works with my current spokes?


Talk this over with your wheel builder.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Agree. talk with the person building the wheels. You might be able to use the 307's on the short side and get some longer one's for the other side. But i doubt you can use all of them.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

tezi said:


> Thanks for the quick reply! I have to dig and try to find the ERD-number for my current wheelset. I found already that it has 306mm and 307mm spokes.
> 
> Edit: It seems to be 606 so I would need about one mm longer spokes.. Do you have any idea if it works with my current spokes. I can always get new nipples to deal with (if they can add the extra reach?)


Really? 306mm is a crazy long spoke. Most of the time for 29er wheels, the spokes end up being in the 290-294mm range for 3cross lacing.

When I had access to a spoke cutting machine, I bought 306mm spokes and cut them to length, just because I found a line on cheap DT Swiss double butted ones.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

bowseruni said:


> Will my frame allow me to swap for a 10x135 thru axle rather than a QR?


Through AXLE, no.

Through BOLT, yes.

Through axles thread into the frame.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

(deleted off topic discussion of axle terminology)


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

Mini hijack...................Is anybody using the light-bicycle seatpost? The clamp system does not look familiar to me. Thx Pete


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Yeah, that's a really common post head. Bontrager and Ritchey have both used it. I've used that same post on my CX bike for 3 years now. Lightweight, super strong, stiff. If it can handle a 200lb fatty jumping on it and racing cat 1 cross on it, then it should be able to handle just about anything.


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## KMan (Dec 30, 2003)

dfiler said:


> lol, I agree about wider rims. The benefits of wider rims are slowly but surely being realized by the riding public.
> 
> Clippless and suspension don't fall into that category. You'll notice that a lot of the most skilled riders on the trail are riding hardtail or rigid, and many of them are on platforms. There is a lot of social pressure to ride clipless, yet... well that's a completely off-topic rant. Rant aborted.
> 
> So yes, definitely get the wider light-bicycle rims. With a 23mm internal width, there is no downside other than a tiny increase in weight. At some point wider than that, the tradeoffs would become a debatable. But at 23mm, there is no logical reason not to opt for the wider version.


I'm currently running older Stans 355 rims with Schwalbe Nobbie Nic 2.25 tires. I'm pushing the limits on tire clearance on my frame (Asylum....original Racer X) - see photos. If I build a new set using the LB wider rims am I going to run into trouble with clearance with my current tire? I'd probably have to switch to a 2.1 tire??


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I think you will be OK with the new rims. Stan's rims hold the tire proportionally wider due to the bead seat shape. My LB rims hold a tire exactly the same as a Stan's Crest rim as far as width goes. Most of the extra width will be toward the bottom (bead seat area) of the tire and would only be half the overall gain on each side so I am predicting it will work. You can always buy one rim and lace it up on the rear and if it doesn't work you can use it on the front (assuming spoke length issues, etc. aren't involved).


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

That would be a real shame

If you did go that way a 2.1 Ignitor has similar grip to the 2.25 nobby nic



KMan said:


> I'm currently running older Stans 355 rims with Schwalbe Nobbie Nic 2.25 tires. I'm pushing the limits on tire clearance on my frame (Asylum....original Racer X) - see photos. If I build a new set using the LB wider rims am I going to run into trouble with clearance with my current tire? I'd probably have to switch to a 2.1 tire??


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

KMan said:


> I'm currently running older Stans 355 rims with Schwalbe Nobbie Nic 2.25 tires. I'm pushing the limits on tire clearance on my frame (Asylum....original Racer X) - see photos. If I build a new set using the LB wider rims am I going to run into trouble with clearance with my current tire? I'd probably have to switch to a 2.1 tire?


I doubt it will significantly change your clearance.
It's surprising to see a modern MTB that's that tight on clearance with a 2.25.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

meltingfeather said:


> I doubt it will significantly change your clearance.
> It's surprising to see a modern MTB that's that tight on clearance with a 2.25.


Heh... I have a RacerX29er myself. It has plenty of tire clearance, so much my Stout 2.2s (which are a wide 2.2) has plenty of room. IIRC, it's the same rear end as the Asylum.

Great bike. I love my RX29er, except I wish it had a bit more travel.

As far as 'modern' goes, that was one of the first full sussy 29ers, from back in 2004-2005 or so. Back then, there weren't many wide 29er tires. so it really wasn't an issue anybody thought about.

I wish my RX29er was that color. I'm not a big fan of red as a color for bikes... but somehow, I ended up with two. The RX29er is more of a tomato red... with a bit of orange in it.


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## LarsF (Feb 14, 2004)

Miracle is a fraud. I tried to order a frameset from them through AliExpress, and they never shipped anything. They made excuses and gave a tracking number but never shipped anything. Avoid at all costs. Also AliExpress does not allow feedback for dispute sales so the feedback their is totally bogus.


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## eclipse24 (Jan 14, 2012)

My rims arrived yesterday and I see no flaws at all. I'll double check the ERD today, then calculate and order my spokes. The wheelset will be DT Swiss 350's, Sapim spokes, brass nips, and Bonty rim strips.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Youre not talking about the same company. Everybody here ordered through light-bicycle.com



LarsF said:


> Miracle is a fraud. I tried to order a frameset from them through AliExpress, and they never shipped anything. They made excuses and gave a tracking number but never shipped anything. Avoid at all costs. Also AliExpress does not allow feedback for dispute sales so the feedback their is totally bogus.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Je22ffrey said:


> I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.


Why wouldn't they, more than one person has posted with these rims and I9 hubs. I think one person even had the rims sent to them and they laced up the wheels.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

LarsF said:


> Miracle is a fraud. I tried to order a frameset from them through AliExpress, and they never shipped anything. They made excuses and gave a tracking number but never shipped anything. Avoid at all costs. Also AliExpress does not allow feedback for dispute sales so the feedback their is totally bogus.


I've ordered frames and rims from Miracle, never had a problem... Great correspondence and service.


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## addisonc (May 10, 2013)

Hi is there anyone in the Bay Area (CA) ordering the 29er wide-rim wheelset from light-bicycle.com? I need your help.

I ordered one with Novatec D711/D712 hubs. They are the wrong sizes. I need the D811/D812 (15mm front, 10mm rear). If you order the D811/D812 for me, I will give you my existing D711/D712 wide-rim 29er wheelset and $50 for your trouble. We can swap!

Please contact me at [email protected] . My wheelset is brand new! No tires have been mounted.

Thanks.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

you got the wrong axle for the front? The D711 hub might have the swappable caps.
Wheels-Parts


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## syntheticreality (Jan 15, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> Why wouldn't they, more than one person has posted with these rims and I9 hubs. I think one person even had the rims sent to them and they laced up the wheels.


That was probably me. They laced up perfectly and very easily and have held up extremely well to rigid ss abuse with a larger rider at the helm. I am only riding aggressive xc with them, but I do take every jump I can find with no problems.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Add to the data base...

Specialized 2Bliss tires fit great with the Bonti strips. Really hook in at the bead even when deflated.

Same goes with the Bonti TLR tire I tried.

Running them with home brew sealant. Aired up super easy.


No-go with a Geax Saurguro. With the strip, pretty much impossible to get on. Way too tight. Never had that much problem with a tire before. Thinking about maybe hanging the tire with a weight and rope in hopes of stretching. Without the Bonti strip and Stans tape alone, the bead seats and hold air, but when deflated it way too easily pops out of the bead. Won't run a tire like that as I've had bad luck before with such.


First ride out with the new rims/wheels yesterday. Climb well. Can't say I feel a huge difference in stiffness compared to my Flows and Flow EXs, but will see when I go back to those rims. Overall, I'm happy with them.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

There is not that much diff in stiffness between Flow's but there is a huge diff in stiffness between Crest wheelsets and that is what the weight is more comparable to.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Miker J said:


> Add to the data base...
> 
> Specialized 2Bliss tires fit great with the Bonti strips. Really hook in at the bead even when deflated.
> 
> ...


Also note that the 2bliss tires work great with just rim tape.


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## tnrider (Nov 5, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> Why wouldn't they, more than one person has posted with these rims and I9 hubs. I think one person even had the rims sent to them and they laced up the wheels.


I had my I9s re-laced from the Flow rims to the Light-bicycle rims. I am happy with the results so far. The Flows and light-bike rims have a 2-3mm ERD difference, I was able to reuse my existing spokes. I only have a pic of the front.


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## tnrider (Nov 5, 2009)

tnrider said:


> I had my I9s re-laced from the Flow rims to the Light-bicycle rims. I am happy with the results so far. The Flows and light-bike rims have a 2-3mm ERD difference, I was able to reuse my existing spokes. I only have a pic of the front.
> 
> View attachment 798639


Actually I found a pic after the tires were mounted as well. Sorry for the terrible pics. I am running Specialized 2Bliss S-Works Ground Controls (2.3 in the front, and 2.1 in rear).


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

tnrider said:


> I had my I9s re-laced from the Flow rims to the Light-bicycle rims. I am happy with the results so far. The Flows and light-bike rims have a 2-3mm ERD difference, I was able to reuse my existing spokes.


Thanks for the follow-up! Do you know if the wheel builder reamed the holes or had to do anything "special" to get these to work?


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## tnrider (Nov 5, 2009)

Simplemind said:


> Thanks for the follow-up! Do you know if the wheel builder reamed the holes or had to do anything "special" to get these to work?


He did not mention anything like that, one thing that he did mention was the rims were very round (very little up and down).


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

tnrider said:


> He did not mention anything like that, one thing that he did mention was the rims were very round (very little up and down).


Forgot to ask...29er, right? Was it a local or online builder, and what was the cost, if you don't mind me asking.


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## tnrider (Nov 5, 2009)

Yes it is a 29er wheel set. A local shop built them up for me, I did the tear down on the old wheels myself. It cost $70 for the build.


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## Cerberus044 (Jul 17, 2012)

Is there any real advantage to these chinese carbons rims over say a pair of Flows? It looks like it saves maybe .7 lb for the pair tops. For a bike I'd need the durability of flows on that difference is pretty minor and just personally I'd feel more confident in the quality control with a stans or similar rim. Getting ready to build up new set for SS and have to say I'm leaning stans way. Are there advantages I don't know about? Can they use higher spoke tensions than the stans for a stiffer wheel? Am I going to appreciate some shock absorbing qualities of carbon rims that would be nice for a rigid ss?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Cerberus044 said:


> Is there any real advantage to these chinese carbons rims over say a pair of Flows? It looks like it saves maybe .7 lb for the pair tops. For a bike I'd need the durability of flows on that difference is pretty minor and just personally I'd feel more confident in the quality control with a stans or similar rim. Getting ready to build up new set for SS and have to say I'm leaning stans way. Are there advantages I don't know about? Can they use higher spoke tensions than the stans for a stiffer wheel? Am I going to appreciate some shock absorbing qualities of carbon rims that would be nice for a rigid ss?


I have the LB rims on two bikes and Stan's Arch rims on my rigid SS. The Stan's rims feel more forgiving (less stiff) than the LB rims


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Cerberus044 said:


> Is there any real advantage to these chinese carbons rims over say a pair of Flows? It looks like it saves maybe .7 lb for the pair tops. For a bike I'd need the durability of flows on that difference is pretty minor and just personally I'd feel more confident in the quality control with a stans or similar rim. Getting ready to build up new set for SS and have to say I'm leaning stans way. Are there advantages I don't know about? Can they use higher spoke tensions than the stans for a stiffer wheel? Am I going to appreciate some shock absorbing qualities of carbon rims that would be nice for a rigid ss?


If you want a lighter wheelset, it's the way to go. You will be impress by the stiffness of these hoops over Crest rims at about the same weight.

If you want a bling-bling wheelset, it's the way to go too! These carbon rims look really great for that price!

If you want to replace flows, riding aggressively is in your mind and your current rims have flat spots, you will probably broke these rims easily.

If you want to add compliance and confort on a rigid bike, it's not the way to go. These hoops are big and large, they will not bend under your weight, whenever material they made off. The spoke tension will not affect the confort or the stiffness in a significant way.

I bought some LB rims. In my mind, they are not AM rims. These hoops are perfect XC races weapons. These are "copy" or made at the same place as specialized roval carbon rims. Last year olympian XC champion won gold on that "kind" of rims. Maybe 50g lighter  but in the same "family".

I'm really impress by the fact that bigger guys bought that rims. The beads are not so tough and even with heavier version, material is not added in the bead section. Maybe with good tire pressure and 2.4 tires, these carbon rims are the way to go for bigger guys and the market of alloy rim is in the shadow of this great product!


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Stiffness is less correlated to spoke tension but to rim construction and design. 

Spoke tension does effect the wheels propensity to stay true and round. 

LBs are stiff and allow higher tension. 

I bet you could go 24f and 28r spokes and achieve same stiffness/trueness as the Stan's setup.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Basically what he and Adroit said. Stiff wheels start with a stiff rim, strong wheels start with high spoke tension. These rims are rated for 180 kgf of spoke tension, you will probably ruin your nipples before acheiving such a high value. My experience is that alloy nipples are too soft to go past 120 kgf which is plenty anyways.

The only point I disagree on is that they cannot take a beating, or as mat says, they are not an AM rim. Given they are plenty stiff and can be build strong, I see no reason not to use these on an AM build. I use them on my Chromag Rootdown and I'm confident they can handle anything I throw at them. They *might* not be as resistant to impacts but no rim should have to deal with repeated bottom-outs as far as I'm concerned.



mat g said:


> If you want a lighter wheelset, it's the way to go. You will be impress by the stiffness of these hoops over Crest rims at about the same weight.
> 
> If you want a bling-bling wheelset, it's the way to go too! These carbon rims look really great for that price!
> 
> ...


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

mat g said:


> If you want a lighter wheelset, it's the way to go. You will be impress by the stiffness of these hoops over Crest rims at about the same weight.
> 
> If you want a bling-bling wheelset, it's the way to go too! These carbon rims look really great for that price!
> 
> ...


I just got some LB 26" wheels and have about 4 rides on them so far. Had LB built them out "heavy duty (400 grams)" with the intention of using for aggressive AM use. I am running Maxxis DHF 2.5 EXOs both front and back at 23/26 PSI. I setup them up ghetto tubeless with gorilla tape and used 20" light presta BMX tubes for rim strips.

I don't huck any huge big drops but I am a heavier rider (215lbs) that enjoys plowing through rock gardens at speed. So far they are a huge upgrade over the aluminum Easton Havens I have been running, they are so much stiffer and the wider rim really opened up the tires.


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## misooscar (Sep 22, 2008)

I was the reviewer who cracked the bead hook on the rear 29er light bicycle rim awhile back on this thread, while slamming the rear wheel on a failed bunny hop over a curb. 

I continued to ride the wheel for another couple hundred miles on intermediate DH terrain with no issues. 

I would definitely have the wheel built by a master wheel builder, and be realistic about the abuse that these can take. 

Definitely protect these carbon hoops with beefy rubber to protect from rocks. 

Master Wheel builder Scott at Endless Cycles Castro Valley, CA is 
building up a set of 650b Lb hoops now for me with King hubs (purchased straight from Sea Otter booth for $400 blemished hubs), DT Swiss supercomps, and should come in about 30 percent cheaper than the new 29er Specialized Roval wheelset with the DT 240 hubs. 

Complete build came out to $960 so between a 20 to 30 percent savings compared to a Spesh/DT 240 carbon wheelset

Time will tell about the durability of the Enve+Easton+LB+Spesh carbon hoops. 



Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## WayDownSouth (Feb 13, 2004)

I've re-built multiple sets of I9/Flow wheels with the LB rims with very good results. No mods nescessary to the rims, it's a reasonably sung fit but that's not a bad thing. I9's are incredibly easy to lace up and really no harder to tension than conventional wheels so the price to re-build should be the same as for any other wheelset. Because these rims are quite a bit stiffer than the Flows I was able to comfortably bring them up to slightly higher tension and that was helped by a tip I got from the guys at I9 to use bolied linseed oil to lubricate the spoke threads. I'd previously been using copper anti seize but I was getting some binding and spoke wind up at higher tension whereas the linseed oil seems to eliminate much of this problem.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

Anyone try the Novotec hubs they offer?


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

YamaDan said:


> Anyone try the Novotec hubs they offer?


Many people throughout this thread have reported getting the Novatec hubs with the LB pre-built wheels. Try reading back a few pages.


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## bowseruni (Jun 17, 2012)

My 650b wheels have just been posted, they are coming with Novatec hubs.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks, 

I went back to the 130's, still not seeing too much in reviews. That's why I asked..

I'll keep looking..


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

I got the Novatec hubs, I can no longer remember the part numbers, I think 881/882 ?
If you want the exact details search on my name in this thread where I talk a little bit more about it after it happened and have the correct model numbers. 

I DO NOT recommend using this hub in the rear. The front one is fine, no problems. The whole freehub assembly started turning inside the hub body itself. From looking at the drawings and taking it apart there appears to be NO mechanical pining of this assembly, it is simply friction fit into the hub body. Very poor design. I got about half a season out of it when it just went completely useless on my in the middle of a 5 hour ride. DO NOT USE this hub. A

lso as long as I"m making a new post, I picked up a set of the 450g "downhill" rims from light-bicycle and so far so good - I"ve done 2 three day weekends of downhill racing on them so far. I've also been getting away with running single ply Maxxis (Minion DHR) tires though so may not be the ultimate test (need a weekend at Whistler) but I'm still hitting it pretty hard and have cased a few jumps and the rims have been great. Between the lighter AM vs DH tires, going tubeless, and these rims vs some 650g Mavic rims, I saved 4 freaking lbs off my DH wheels and I've definitely picked up speed as a result.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Just thought I'd mention this. 

I picked up a set of complete wheel with Novatec hubs and the build quality was top notch. I've had no complaints yet on this purchase. 

But I forgot to order extra spokes and nipples when I place my original order, just in case I need them.

I know selling me 6 spokes and 2 nipple isn't a real big priority for them, so I also added 3 bottle cages to the order just so it would be somewhat worth dealing with. And at the time, it wasn't even a big priority for me since I only wanted them for spares in case I needed them on a trip I'm taking in July. I've been trying to get the order placed and shipped since April 24th with no luck. I've emailed Nancy several times and still nothing. And now it's getting to the point where it IS a big deal and I'll have to pay special freight just to get them in time. 

So if anyone buys wheelsets and you might even consider getting spare parts, order them when you order your wheels.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Cerberus044 said:


> Is there any real advantage to these chinese carbons rims over say a pair of Flows? It looks like it saves maybe .7 lb for the pair tops. For a bike I'd need the durability of flows on that difference is pretty minor and just personally I'd feel more confident in the quality control with a stans or similar rim. Getting ready to build up new set for SS and have to say I'm leaning stans way. Are there advantages I don't know about? Can they use higher spoke tensions than the stans for a stiffer wheel? Am I going to appreciate some shock absorbing qualities of carbon rims that would be nice for a rigid ss?


Nearly 3/4 pound of rotating weight is pretty dang significant. It makes for a snappier feeling bike, I can tell you that.


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

misooscar said:


> I continued to ride the wheel for another couple hundred miles on intermediate DH terrain with no issues.
> 
> Definitely protect these carbon hoops with beefy rubber to protect from rocks.


Agreed with this assessment. I am amazed by the lack of breaking in this thread since I have seen at least 4-6 cracked rims in my riding crew alone. I have taken to riding basketball pressures in my tires to minimize, but it's not foolproof.

This rim has looked this way for the last 6-8 months. The repaired area failed and the crack made it to the eyelet but it never lost true and my tubeless setup never lost air pressure. I only downbuilt it yesterday to use a replacement rim. I inspected the front wheel and found another sidewall crack that doesn't concern me considering the abuse the rear took.

I have ridden other carbon wheelsets without any of these failures, but they were also extremely expensive. I think you get what you pay for here.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

JMH said:


> Agreed with this assessment. I am amazed by the lack of breaking in this thread since I have seen at least 4-6 cracked rims in my riding crew alone. I have taken to riding basketball pressures in my tires to minimize, but it's not foolproof.
> 
> This rim has looked this way for the last 6-8 months. The repaired area failed and the crack made it to the eyelet but it never lost true and my tubeless setup never lost air pressure. I only downbuilt it yesterday to use a replacement rim. I inspected the front wheel and found another sidewall crack that doesn't concern me considering the abuse the rear took.
> 
> ...


Can you post a close up pic of the damaged area? Is this damage from rock strikes or something else?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

hidperf said:


> So if anyone buys wheelsets and you might even consider getting spare parts, order them when you order your wheels.


why wouldn't you just pick up a couple of spares for $5 at your LBS or an online retailer with a better fulfillment side?


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Is this damage from rock strikes or something else?


Which damaged area?  There are two large cracks in the above photo and a third smaller one elsewhere on the rim. The front has a small vertical crack in the sidewall as well. All are from separate impacts through my Hans Dampfs inflated to 32-33PSI rear, 29-30PSI front. I weigh 165lbs.

I have a 150lb friend who cracked his on a ride Tuesday. Second one he broke, although the first one was a catastrophic delamination and not caused by a rock. Another guy I ride and race enduros with occasionally has broken one or maybe two, he weighs 135lb. Again, failures were impact related and I can't say what tires they were riding at what pressures. I have a third friend who cracked one on the first ride. He swears he didn't hit anything but occam's razor says he probably hit a rock.

These guys all ride really, really fast and aren't representative of typical use. But just know that if you like to haul ass and you live near rocks, you will break one eventually. Almost all rims were warrantied by L-B, FWIW. Mine was not. Sadpanda.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> why wouldn't you just pick up a couple of spares for $5 at your LBS or an online retailer with a better fulfillment side?


I was trying to get the exact parts that they were built with. And I got the wheels so fast when I ordered them, I didn't think it would take months just for these smaller parts.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

I've cracked a rim too (going fast on a rocky line after lossing all the air from my rear tire)
and my friend cracked one on a downhill rocky track then we realized he had near to 10psi of air when he got the crack.

but after contacting Nancy, they sent us a new rims no charge. (only shipment)

I have this rims both on my trail and my DH bike.
my frien Dan is using them too on both bikes.


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## Qfactor03 (Dec 8, 2005)

Similar situation here, vertical crack in a front. Average weight rider running just above mid-twenties pressure. He wasn't even sure when it happened since the tire was still holding full pressure at the end of the ride and didn't notice the crack until after the ride was over. There doesn't appear to be any damage due to a direct strike from a rock, but the tire side wall created enough pressure to cause a stress crack in the carbon.



JMH said:


> :skep:
> 
> Which damaged area?  There are two large cracks in the above photo and a third smaller one elsewhere on the rim. The front has a small vertical crack in the sidewall as well. All are from separate impacts through my Hans Dampfs inflated to 32-33PSI rear, 29-30PSI front. I weigh 165lbs.
> 
> ...


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Qfactor03 said:


> Similar situation here, vertical crack in a front. Average weight rider running just above mid-twenties pressure. He wasn't even sure when it happened since the tire was still holding full pressure at the end of the ride and didn't notice the crack until after the ride was over. There doesn't appear to be any damage due to a direct strike from a rock, but the tire side wall created enough pressure to cause a stress crack in the carbon.


That looks like an impact crack from running too low psi


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

YamaDan said:


> Anyone try the Novotec hubs they offer?


The D711 used to build my front wheel is light and the bearings feel silky smooth. But, with qr 9mm version, the contact surface with the fork's drop-out is minimalist. Compared to my usual specialized OS28 hub who have a big contact (for qr9...), the wheel flex is easy to feel even if this rim is rigid as hell.

I don't have any rear hub from novatec.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

looks like we're getting a lot of breakage reports :-(


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

More like rock damage reports that probably would have dented an aluminum rim too.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

yourdaguy said:


> More like rock damage reports that probably would have dented an aluminum rim too.


I agree, in general Carbon rims are best for XC, not DH or AM. You can't pound on a carbon wheel like you can some heavy duty AL wheels.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> More like rock damage reports that probably would have dented an aluminum rim too.


My rear 380g 26" rim broke after 3 weeks usage due to rock strikes due to too low pressure and rough riding style


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## Qfactor03 (Dec 8, 2005)

Actually, the same friend has been running similar pressures with an aluminum rimmed tubeless set up and had zero issues for the last couple of years. Maybe just the perfect set of circumstances to cause this, I really don't know. I do agree with the poster below that if you're going to run carbon rims outside of lighter xc use, it's probably best to up the pressure. Too bad, since it sort of negates some of the advantages of running tubeless and lower pressures. Does anyone have reports of how well Enve AM rims are holding up in regards to failures like this? I would imagine there are plenty of Enve riders out there pushing the limits with low pressure and it'd be interesting to see if you really do get what you pay for. I personally can't come to grips with the $800+ price tag and the risk of destroying one.


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## KevinNZ (May 24, 2009)

When you fitted the LB carbon rims where able to use the original spokes from the crest rims?


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## kirklanddownhill (Jan 27, 2009)

Is anyone running these non-tubeless? I'm curious about these rims, but would want to run a tube. 

And no, I'm not going to dig back in the earlier pages.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm waiting for one of these companies to make a 25mm wide tubular rim for 29ers. I'll be all over that. 

I know, I know, it's a racing-only application, but the ride of a 50mm tubular is out of this world.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

kirklanddownhill said:


> Is anyone running these non-tubeless? I'm curious about these rims, but would want to run a tube.
> 
> And no, I'm not going to dig back in the earlier pages.


yes


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I'm waiting for one of these companies to make a 25mm wide tubular rim for 29ers. I'll be all over that.
> 
> I know, I know, it's a racing-only application, but the ride of a 50mm tubular is out of this world.


There has got to be a way to make tubulars trail serviceable. Maybe a secondary valve with a latex balloon? I wonder how much it would weigh and cost? $300 a tire?


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## kirklanddownhill (Jan 27, 2009)

DeeZee said:


> yes


How's the durability? Still questionable?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

kirklanddownhill said:


> How's the durability? Still questionable?


My buddy has put over 2K miles on these rims running tubes.


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

Sorry, I'm a homer...I went the easy route...I purchased some spesh roval carbons, sick stuff! I just don't have time to go through the builds etc. Wow, these things are like feathers and clouds !


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

KevinNZ said:


> When you fitted the LB carbon rims where able to use the original spokes from the crest rims?


... mine was a direct swap. I used new nipples, naturally. I didn't even de-lace the hub to do it. :thumbsup:

Of course, YMMV.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

everything motorcycl said:


> Sorry, I'm a homer...I went the easy route...I purchased some spesh roval carbons, sick stuff! I just don't have time to go through the builds etc. Wow, these things are like feathers and clouds !


Where did you track them down? I looked, LBS want's $1500..


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

JMH said:


> Which damaged area?  There are two large cracks in the above photo and a third smaller one elsewhere on the rim. The front has a small vertical crack in the sidewall as well. All are from separate impacts through my Hans Dampfs inflated to 32-33PSI rear, 29-30PSI front. I weigh 165lbs.
> 
> I have a 150lb friend who cracked his on a ride Tuesday. Second one he broke, although the first one was a catastrophic delamination and not caused by a rock. Another guy I ride and race enduros with occasionally has broken one or maybe two, he weighs 135lb. Again, failures were impact related and I can't say what tires they were riding at what pressures. I have a third friend who cracked one on the first ride. He swears he didn't hit anything but occam's razor says he probably hit a rock.
> 
> These guys all ride really, really fast and aren't representative of typical use. But just know that if you like to haul ass and you live near rocks, you will break one eventually. Almost all rims were warrantied by L-B, FWIW. Mine was not. Sadpanda.


I'm surprised to hear you broke one with "mature" tire pressures on a big tire! I'm running around 30-33 range in the rear and high 20s in the front with Butchers f/r. I'm not fast but I ride HARD, rocky terrain and have had no issues. Maybe the "long travel" on my Prime has something to do with it? Whatever. I'll take it

You on a full squishy or a hard tail?


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## bowseruni (Jun 17, 2012)

Tried my 650b wheels out yesterday, absolutely faultless. I'm 100kg on a good day and was running 26PSI in both, rocky trails smallish jumps and the rims felt great. Put a small scratch on one but otherwise they held up fine.
Novatec hubs also faultless.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

YamaDan said:


> Where did you track them down? I looked, LBS want's $1500..


These should be $1200 not $1500.
Specialized Bicycle Components


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Last week I had my worst rim strike after more than a year of riding. It happened when riding through a stream crossing at the bottom of a ravine. The trail goes straight down and back up the ravine, resulting in a harsh g-out at the bottom. Well this time I managed to get off line and hit a football sized rock in the stream bed. With only around 22psi in the front tire, the rim struck hard after bottoming a 120mm fox float. 

The impact resulted in a loud sharp sound, but a sound completely different than an aluminum rim makes. It is hard to describe. Rather than a tonal noise like produced by aluminum, it was more like hitting concrete with a stick. 

I yelled in surprise and pulled over. The guy riding behind me was like what the hell was that? But the rim was fine, not even a mark on it. Is a tubeless setup so I was a bit concerned that air would leak if it had cracked. But no, the rim is actually in perfect condition and hasn't lost air in the few rides since. Of course upon returning home I washed and thorough examined the rim for damage. 

This really impressed me. The impact was hard enough that normally I would have flat spotted or bent the sidewall of an aluminum rim. But this carbon rim came out unscathed and still perfectly true. I may never buy an aluminum rim again.


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## Criswell (Aug 19, 2012)

i tried wading through this massive thread but figured it would just be easier to ask...

i'm looking for an inexpensive set of 29er wheels for xc racing.

are there any wheel builders here in the u.s. using these light-bicycle carbon rims to put together custom wheelsets? any info/links/contact info/prices would be awesome.


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Chad at Red Barn Custom Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes and Hand-made wheels | Red Barn Bicycles has built several LB wheels up. You buy the rims and have them delivered to him and he builds your wheels up. Talk with him about your weight, riding needs and budget and see what he can do for you.

-Shane



Criswell said:


> i tried wading through this massive thread but figured it would just be easier to ask...
> 
> i'm looking for an inexpensive set of 29er wheels for xc racing.
> 
> are there any wheel builders here in the u.s. using these light-bicycle carbon rims to put together custom wheelsets? any info/links/contact info/prices would be awesome.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

spicercycles.com has built wheels with these rims and can order from QBP and others so he can get any parts needed for custom builds.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

seleniak said:


> Chad at Red Barn Custom Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes and Hand-made wheels | Red Barn Bicycles has built several LB wheels up. You buy the rims and have them delivered to him and he builds your wheels up. Talk with him about your weight, riding needs and budget and see what he can do for you.
> 
> -Shane


^^^^^^ this. Chad built mine up. I had the rims dropped shipped to him and sent him an old set of DT 240 hubs. His prices are very good, his reputation is stellar, and he's a genuinely good guy. Highly recommended


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Just cracked a rear rim. Came down very hard on a rock. I have no doubts that it would have destroyed an arch. Was able to ride home but leaking air. Now I need to pull the tire and see what the damage is. Wheel is still true and round and haven't touched them in the 18 months or so I have been riding them


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

AKamp said:


> Just cracked a rear rim. Came down very hard on a rock. I have no doubts that it would have destroyed an arch. Was able to ride home but leaking air. Now I need to pull the tire and see what the damage is. Wheel is still true and round and haven't touched them in the 18 months or so I have been riding them


love to see the photos if you can get some up - seems like guys are mostly crushing the rim beads. the rims seem to remain true, which I guess makes sense - carbon being stronger but more brittle than alloys. was yours an LB wide 29er rim?

anyway, you said 18 months of trouble free service, and now this failure. is it safe to say you recommend the LB rims? can we assume you'll order a replacement from ms. nancy?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Criswell said:


> i tried wading through this massive thread but figured it would just be easier to ask...
> 
> i'm looking for an inexpensive set of 29er wheels for xc racing.
> 
> are there any wheel builders here in the u.s. using these light-bicycle carbon rims to put together custom wheelsets? any info/links/contact info/prices would be awesome.


Any LBS with a decent wrench on staff should be able to do this for you. Some of the more tightly wound buttheadded LBSs won't work on gear they didn't sell you (especially if you got it on the interwebs), but most other open minded folks will just take care of the customer, and gladly sell you a wheel building service.

Or... hey... maybe this is the perfect opportunity to learn to build wheels yourself!

Here ya go... go to school!

Wheelbuilding


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm sure a lot of people either did it themselves or had an LBS do it. Honestly I wouldn't have sent it off somewhere because it would have just taken longer. I had a local road bike shop do mine as they were the friendliest and most competent. It was only $30 a wheel after I laced it.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

powderturns said:


> love to see the photos if you can get some up - seems like guys are mostly crushing the rim beads. the rims seem to remain true, which I guess makes sense - carbon being stronger but more brittle than alloys. was yours an LB wide 29er rim?
> 
> anyway, you said 18 months of trouble free service, and now this failure. is it safe to say you recommend the LB rims? can we assume you'll order a replacement from ms. nancy?


I would recommend them and will be ordering a replacement along with another set most likely. I will be building them with nipple washers next time though. I don't know if I could get a good pic of the crack. It splintered the rim bead but not too badly. I threw a tube in it and the crack didn't get any bigger at 40 psi so I dropped the pressure back down and did a ride with my son. Crack didn't get any bigger after 1000 feet of pretty smooth but relatively fast descending. I would imagine I could get it to seal back up and run tubeless but I am just going to watch it for a while until I can get a replacement.


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

AKamp said:


> I would recommend them and will be ordering a replacement along with another set most likely. I will be building them with nipple washers next time though. I don't know if I could get a good pic of the crack. It splintered the rim bead but not too badly. I threw a tube in it and the crack didn't get any bigger at 40 psi so I dropped the pressure back down and did a ride with my son. Crack didn't get any bigger after 1000 feet of pretty smooth but relatively fast descending. I would imagine I could get it to seal back up and run tubeless but I am just going to watch it for a while until I can get a replacement.


I rode what sounds like a worse failure on the back of my WFO for another 6 months after the incident, keep an eye on it but you should be fine until your rebuild arrives.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I have been sitting on my LB rims for too long. I was going to rebuild my current wheelset but decided to pull the plug on some new hubs. I really want high POE so I am going w/ Industry 9 Torch rear hub. I am debating on the I-9 Torch front or go w/ an American Classic to save $$ and weight. I have always had good luck w/ A/C hubs. I am building w/ sapim x-rays so either way it'll be a sweet wheelset. Any input appreciated;-)


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Build them with the hubs that would be your dream build or you will always wish you had.

I really like the I9 torch hubs.



Andy13 said:


> I have been sitting on my LB rims for too long. I was going to rebuild my current wheelset but decided to pull the plug on some new hubs. I really want high POE so I am going w/ Industry 9 Torch rear hub. I am debating on the I-9 Torch front or go w/ an American Classic to save $$ and weight. I have always had good luck w/ A/C hubs. I am building w/ sapim x-rays so either way it'll be a sweet wheelset. Any input appreciated;-)


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

Andy13 said:


> I have been sitting on my LB rims for too long. I was going to rebuild my current wheelset but decided to pull the plug on some new hubs. I really want high POE so I am going w/ Industry 9 Torch rear hub. I am debating on the I-9 Torch front or go w/ an American Classic to save $$ and weight. I have always had good luck w/ A/C hubs. I am building w/ sapim x-rays so either way it'll be a sweet wheelset. Any input appreciated;-)


If it were me I'd go with: king hubs + sapim cx-ray

Currently running LB 29" wide + King + Wheelsmith DB14. Have a second pair of rims on order. Will be lacing them to a 5 year old pair of king hubs that still work like new. Might try cx-rays this time, although I'm unsure that they'd give me any real benefit.


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## WayDownSouth (Feb 13, 2004)

I'm the New Zealand distributor for I9 so I have an obvious bias, but I'm very impressed with the new I9 Torch hubs. They're considerably lighter than the older flanged hubs (273 grams on my scale for a rear with 9/10 speed driver body and 142 x 12 end caps), have less drag, are better sealed and considerably easier to service (no more tiny hex keys required to remove pawl springs). High POE and minimal weight penalty over the AC hubs.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I am very happy with my AC hubs and they are light. The best part is you can usually build the wheelset with one size spokes for all locations. Since you have already decided on the rear, I think the decision on the front would boil down to how well it would match the appearance of the rear. If the match is close we already know the AC is lighter and less money.


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## WayDownSouth (Feb 13, 2004)

Having re-read your post and realized that you've already decided on the I9 Torch rear hub I decided to go weigh an I9 Torch Flanged Front Hub. 153 grams on my moderately accurate scale (32 hole, 15mm end caps).


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

AKamp said:


> I would recommend them and will be ordering a replacement along with another set most likely. I will be building them with nipple washers next time though. I don't know if I could get a good pic of the crack. It splintered the rim bead but not too badly. I threw a tube in it and the crack didn't get any bigger at 40 psi so I dropped the pressure back down and did a ride with my son. Crack didn't get any bigger after 1000 feet of pretty smooth but relatively fast descending. I would imagine I could get it to seal back up and run tubeless but I am just going to watch it for a while until I can get a replacement.


I'd love to know what others have used for nipple washers. Given how small the holes are in the rim beds, most nipple washers won't fit. That said, I trimmed a couple oval washers just to see if I could get them to work, and they will. Question is, do I want to do this 70 more times, and how do I feel about stainless washers in there? 
On that note, are most people using brass nipples? 14mm nipples might be nice too based on how thick the rims are... anyone else find that?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

^ I am a huge fan of brass nipples on carbon mountain bike wheels.


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## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

It does seem like there is a number of cracked rims-- but im wondering why? Inferior rim? Just more of them out there so we are hearing about them more? Are the guys on enve's that are cracking the rim-- just not coming onto the forum and talking about them(maybe the same return rate as LB?).. Im thinking these are going to be my next rims to try.. I saw a set of the phase 2 wide 29 3k finsh and man that was a nice looking rim..


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Just from a logical standpoint, I don't like brass on carbon rims. My thinking is that the alloy nipples are softer than the carbon so the nipple SHOULD fail before the rim. Brass nipples could theoretically destroy the carbon. Just my thinking. No evidence to back it up...


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## mosquitos (Feb 14, 2004)

While being talking about nipples on carbon rims, any experience of corroded alloy nipple like on Enve wheels ?

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/enve-wheel-nipple-corrosion-835853.html


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## 4slomo (Jul 4, 2006)

You can't generalize from LB to all carbon rims. ENVE and LB are on opposite sides of the engineering and production spectrums. I don't hear of many ENVE rims cracking, and they do have a 5 year warranty against manufacturing and workmanship defects. I have seen a number of failed LB rims, when they have a failure they seem to just tweak their design, make a new mold and crank out more rims.



SB Trails said:


> It does seem like there is a number of cracked rims-- but im wondering why? Inferior rim? Just more of them out there so we are hearing about them more? Are the guys on enve's that are cracking the rim-- just not coming onto the forum and talking about them(maybe the same return rate as LB?).. Im thinking these are going to be my next rims to try.. I saw a set of the phase 2 wide 29 3k finsh and man that was a nice looking rim..


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I think there are more lb rims out there than ENVE rims. I personally own 6 LB and 0 ENVE. Several people on here have posted that they own multiple sets and I am sure someone exists but I never heard of anybody that owned multiple sets of ENVE wheels.


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## dbigfot111 (Nov 12, 2012)

yourdaguy said:


> I think there are more lb rims out there than ENVE rims. I personally own 6 LB and 0 ENVE. Several people on here have posted that they own multiple sets and I am sure someone exists but I never heard of anybody that owned multiple sets of ENVE wheels.


Did you built up your LB wheels?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

SB Trails said:


> It does seem like there is a number of cracked rims-- but im wondering why? Inferior rim? Just more of them out there so we are hearing about them more? Are the guys on enve's that are cracking the rim-- just not coming onto the forum and talking about them(maybe the same return rate as LB?).. Im thinking these are going to be my next rims to try.. I saw a set of the phase 2 wide 29 3k finsh and man that was a nice looking rim..


Unless you are breaking rims constantly (which no one seems to be doing) does it really matter? Enve are $800 + $400 for crash replacement. LB is still $130? That means you can buy 9 lb rims for the cost of one enve and its crash replacement. That's a lot of rims.

No one on here seems to think the lb rims are weaker than aluminum. Typically people who have cracked an LB rim think it would have been a really bad or destroyed aluminum rim too. So how many aluminum rims are you going through?


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## dwnhlldav (Feb 2, 2006)

FWIW, I built up a set of cheap chinese carbon rims for a customer. First pair I've built. The rims were not round. It wasn't a spoke tension issue. I've built at least a hundred pairs of wheels. There was a hop that could not be worked out with spoke tension. I know it's an example of one, but it doesn't instill confidence in me.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Mine were very straight and very round and built up easy.

Also, I thought the price was $165 now.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dwnhlldav said:


> FWIW, I built up a set of cheap chinese carbon rims for a customer. First pair I've built. The rims were not round. It wasn't a spoke tension issue. I've built at least a hundred pairs of wheels. There was a hop that could not be worked out with spoke tension. I know it's an example of one, but it doesn't instill confidence in me.


A hop in a rim that already has tension is no indication that the rim was not round to start, if that's what you're basing that statement on. What is more likely is that tension was added too quickly, squeezing a bulge into the rim. I've seen guys that have been building wheels for 25 years do it.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I am inclined to agree with meltingfeather on this one. Since they come out of a mold having a high spot seems not too likely.


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

dwnhlldav said:


> FWIW, I built up a set of cheap chinese carbon rims for a customer. First pair I've built. The rims were not round. It wasn't a spoke tension issue. I've built at least a hundred pairs of wheels. There was a hop that could not be worked out with spoke tension. I know it's an example of one, but it doesn't instill confidence in me.


Do you know who the manufacturer of those specific rims was? Is it light bicycle or someone else? Just trying to add context.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

powderturns said:


> I'd love to know what others have used for nipple washers. Given how small the holes are in the rim beds, most nipple washers won't fit. That said, I trimmed a couple oval washers just to see if I could get them to work, and they will. Question is, do I want to do this 70 more times, and how do I feel about stainless washers in there?
> On that note, are most people using brass nipples? 14mm nipples might be nice too based on how thick the rims are... anyone else find that?


I think the velofuse washers will fit. They are pretty small but I could be wrong. If they do I will definitely use them. Using 14mm nips is a good call, especially with an extra mm of washer


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

this is a bit off topic, but I was on a different thread, and I found a reference to a superlight hub maker called mack hubs. Front is 83g and the rear is 199g. I think you can only get them in Europe though. You could make a seriously light wheelset with them and the LB rims.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dwnhlldav said:


> FWIW, I built up a set of cheap chinese carbon rims for a customer. First pair I've built. The rims were not round. It wasn't a spoke tension issue. I've built at least a hundred pairs of wheels. There was a hop that could not be worked out with spoke tension. I know it's an example of one, but it doesn't instill confidence in me.


There is also no such thing as a hop that can not be worked out with spoke tension. Roundness is something you deal with BEFORE the spokes have any appreciable tension. Even if a rim is wonky, if you deal with it early it will have virtually no effect on tension, because it requires so little force to deform a rim before it is supported by the spokes.
After a wheel has been tensioned dealing with hops is a guessing game due to the interactive dynamics of what has become one structure.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

xc biker said:


> this is a bit off topic, but I was on a different thread, and I found a reference to a superlight hub maker called mack hubs. Front is 83g and the rear is 199g. I think you can only get them in Europe though. You could make a seriously light wheelset with them and the LB rims.


Kind of hard to beat extralite. Extralite hyper front is 78g and is extremely good. Hyperrear is 164g but requires more maintenance because of their ratchet design. I think there are a lot more people running extralite. Kind of hard to try something heavier and unknown when the lighter thing is already great.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

litany said:


> Kind of hard to beat extralite. Extralite hyper front is 78g and is extremely good. Hyperrear is 164g but requires more maintenance because of their ratchet design. I think there are a lot more people running extralite. Kind of hard to try something heavier and unknown when the lighter thing is already great.


The durability of extralite stuff is on the low end, especially if you deal with any adverse conditions (_e.g._ wet, sand, _etc._).


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> The durability of extralite stuff is on the low end, especially if you deal with any adverse conditions (_e.g._ wet, sand, _etc._).


For the rear hub I'm sure. The front my friend and I am super happy with but I live in the desert so wet isn't really a thing here. I got a DT240 instead of the hyperrear because I didn't want to have to replace that ratchet for $100 every couple of seasons.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> There is also no such thing as a hop that can not be worked out with spoke tension. Roundness is something you deal with BEFORE the spokes have any appreciable tension. Even if a rim is wonky, if you deal with it early it will have virtually no effect on tension, because it requires so little force to deform a rim before it is supported by the spokes.
> After a wheel has been tensioned dealing with hops is a guessing game due to the interactive dynamics of what has become one structure.


He isn't saying if it a high spot or a low spot. If it is a flat spot in the rim then it is most likely a manufacturing defect which I would doubt. A high spot should easily be brought into round unless again, a manufacturing defect. Now I have only built up one set of these rims but they were probably the nicest and easiest set of hoops to round and true I have ever done out of 200-300 wheels over the past 25 years


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

. Pick of the crack in the sidewall right in front of the valve


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

waydownsouth - PM sent.


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## the.vault (Oct 11, 2006)

4slomo said:


> You can't generalize from LB to all carbon rims. ENVE and LB are on opposite sides of the engineering and production spectrums. I don't hear of many ENVE rims cracking, and they do have a 5 year warranty against manufacturing and workmanship defects. I have seen a number of failed LB rims, when they have a failure they seem to just tweak their design, make a new mold and crank out more rims.


Why do you say ENVE and LB are on opposite ends of the engineering and production spectrum. Is it soley because they are being produced by chinese company. I've spent a fair amount of time at factories and companies in China, the idea that the skills and products produced there are inherently inferior is rather naive. That is true for more than just bike parts. Sure there are different motivations and the companies operate with different models. ENVE sells a brand. LB sells products.

For what it's worth, I haven't been to either the ENVE factory or to LB factory.

I have seen and heard of several more failed ENVE rims. Those rims are not indestructible, and the crash replacement cost is pretty steep compared to LB brand new rim.


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## 4slomo (Jul 4, 2006)

I base my comments on my first hand experiences in dealing with LB regarding out of spec rims I've received on behalf of customers, for wheel builds. In response to my inquiries, they have told me that they are changing their molds to correct design and manufacturing problems that they didn't identify despite their quality control program. Only a portion of the rims shipped to me have been unusable, others have been better. In general, the rims I have built have not been as stable at tension as have comparable ENVE rims I have also built. I have also inspected other LB rim failures. I have no doubt that with sufficient repeated iterations, they will eventually improve their quality, there are several ways to develop and refine a product.



the.vault said:


> Why do you say ENVE and LB are on opposite ends of the engineering and production spectrum. Is it soley because they are being produced by chinese company. I've spent a fair amount of time at factories and companies in China, the idea that the skills and products produced there are inherently inferior is rather naive. That is true for more than just bike parts. Sure there are different motivations and the companies operate with different models. ENVE sells a brand. LB sells products.
> 
> For what it's worth, I haven't been to either the ENVE factory or to LB factory.
> 
> I have seen and heard of several more failed ENVE rims. Those rims are not indestructible, and the crash replacement cost is pretty steep compared to LB brand new rim.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

So my rims shipped.. whats the consensus, brass or alloy nipples? Nipple washers?

I'm putting them on a set of Hope Evos.. If someone on here knows the spoke length too that would be awesome!!


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Brass nips so as not to worry about corrosion. No washers needed..... Experiment as you like. Should be around 292 spokes, but you need to run the spoke calc..
.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

the.vault said:


> ENVE sells a brand. LB sells products.


ENVE sells a product that satisfies a sense of accomplishment. Aspirational feelings. Like a MacBook Pro or a 2006 Brunello, ENVEs make you feel good about yourself because you have arrived. I ride my bike because my Porsche is in the shop and mistress is playing tennis. Elitist carbon? Kiss my ass an oh yeah, I put 15,000kms on my 12 bikes this year.

LB sells a product that satisfies a sense of DIY. Like a hacked PS3 or a 750ml of home brew, LBs make you feel non conforming and free. I ride my bike because I can and I ride it fast because I want to. No name carbon? Kiss my ass and oh yeah, on your left, *****.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

scottay said:


> Brass nips so as not to worry about corrosion. No washers needed..... Experiment as you like. Should be around 292 spokes, but you need to run the spoke calc..
> .


Thanks!


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## DWill (Aug 24, 2010)

Adroit Rider said:


> ENVE sells a product that satisfies a sense of accomplishment. Aspirational feelings. Like a MacBook Pro or a 2006 Brunello, ENVEs make you feel good about yourself because you have arrived. I ride my bike because my Porsche is in the shop and mistress is playing tennis. Elitist carbon? Kiss my ass an oh yeah, I put 15,000kms on my 12 bikes this year.
> 
> LB sells a product that satisfies a sense of DIY. Like a hacked PS3 or a 750ml of home brew, LBs make you feel non conforming and free. I ride my bike because I can and I ride it fast because I want to. No name carbon? Kiss my ass and oh yeah, on your left, *****.


Really? I bought my Enve's simply because I couldn't find a better product.

I wanted THE best carbon rims available and that is Enve. Of LB or anyone else can make a rim better than Enve I'd buy it regardless of cost.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

DWill said:


> Really? I bought my Enve's simply because I couldn't find a better product.
> 
> I wanted THE best carbon rims available and that is Enve. Of LB or anyone else can make a rim better than Enve I'd buy it regardless of cost.


Yep. Same here. I have ENVE clinchers and just picked up a pair of DT Swiss 950Ts for racing.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

YamaDan said:


> So my rims shipped.. whats the consensus, brass or alloy nipples? Nipple washers?
> 
> I'm putting them on a set of Hope Evos.. If someone on here knows the spoke length too that would be awesome!!


Here you go, ive just built these as theres no way I would own 2 sets of ENVE wheels.... yeah the ENVE's are awesome but I cant justify having 2 sets.

Light-bicycle XC rims, 292mm revos (all around) with brass nipples on hope evos.

You could easily go 291mm or even 290mm all around. I have about 3-4mm poking through on the DS and 1-2mm poking through on the other. 291mm would be ideal. I got 112-118kgf tension on them.

Brass nipples all the way !!!! If you read the ENVE corrosion thread I started you will know why.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

DWill said:


> Really? I bought my Enve's simply because I couldn't find a better product.
> 
> I wanted THE best carbon rims available and that is Enve. Of LB or anyone else can make a rim better than Enve I'd buy it regardless of cost.


No argument here. Just having a little fun with the customer profile for the two products.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

As ozzybmx said, with LB rims whatever spokecalc comes up with you could go almost 2 mm shorter. So I am thinking the real ERD of these wheels is around 600 at least by the time they are built up and the nipples seat real good.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

some people are buying these rims. I just ordered, they are now 200/piece shipped.

from brian <<I just have checked there are around 110pcs wider 29er rims in front of yours. 
We need about 10 business days to finish your rims. I will let you know when your rims are shipped. Have a nice day!
>>

You would think they would keep some inventory. If they dont have inventory it is possibly because they are at max capacity.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

goodmojo said:


> You would think they would keep some inventory. If they dont have inventory it is possibly because they are at max capacity.


Inventory space is costly. Producing just-in-time or on demand is a good way to cut costs for small companies who can.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Carrying inventory is costly too and with so many combinations of finish, drilling, etc. it would add up really fast. Just the materials cost not to mention the labor that would be stored on shelves.


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## DWill (Aug 24, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> Yep. Same here. I have ENVE clinchers and just picked up a pair of DT Swiss 950Ts for racing.


Yeah, I'm taking the DT 240's that came on my Enve's and replacing them with Chris Kings. The wheels are going to the builder today in fact.

I really like the DT's; great hubs. But I don't like the 18 tooth ratchet so much. 
I replaced it with the 36 and have had two of then "strip". I didn't really care at 30.00 but at a the new 100.00 price I care.

Three of those and I've paid for a CK rear hub.

I've ordered a new V10 with Enve DH wheels can't wait to get it on the mountain.


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

the.vault said:


> Why do you say ENVE and LB are on opposite ends of the engineering and production spectrum.


Well... Enve are the only ones that I know of that have made the effort to mold the spoke holes into the rim, rather than drilling through the fibers and reducing the rim's structural integrity. I'm also willing to guess that they have spent a lot more time figure out optimum layups and profiles for different applications (road vs. MTB). I do think the LB rims are "good enough" and my next set of wheels will be with their rims.



Adroit Rider said:


> ENVE sells a product that satisfies a sense of accomplishment. Aspirational feelings. Like a MacBook Pro or a 2006 Brunello, ENVEs make you feel good about yourself because you have arrived. I ride my bike because my Porsche is in the shop and mistress is playing tennis. Elitist carbon? Kiss my ass an oh yeah, I put 15,000kms on my 12 bikes this year.


Funny. I almost feel ashamed when I tell people how expensive my wheels are. The fact of the matter is that I have a wheel problem. I've been trying to find the best combination of weight, durability and stiffness in 29er wheels for years. Fortunately, I was able to save my pennies and invest in a set of Edge Composites AM wheels a couple of years ago, and have been extremely satisfied with them. So much so that when I sold one of my bikes, I ordered a set of their XC wheels for my other bike. They've been problem free and I have zero regrets. I guess you could think of them as an aspirational purchase, but for me it isn't about them being a status symbol. It's about having wheels that, right now, I cannot foresee replacing.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Maxrep said:


> Perhaps it is worth reiterating that wheel weight is about rotating weight





Maxrep said:


> Not sure why some opt for the 21mm version to save a few grams.


A self answered question^^^

My ENVE XC wheels are 18mm internal and ive run 2.4 racing ralphs at 20psi for 2 years now with no issues. So it makes sense that the 21mm internal rims are going to do exactly the job I need them for.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

the.vault said:


> Why do you say ENVE and LB are on opposite ends of the engineering and production spectrum. Is it soley because they are being produced by chinese company.


phail
:nonod:


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Maxrep said:


> After 2 months of daily ride time, I am very pleased with my LB wheels built at the factory with the Novatec hubs. They have been running tubeless with only Stans yellow tape down to 20 psi without any burping. Very true. Additionally, the Novatec rear hub has been quite impressive.
> 
> From someone who has owned many I9 wheelsets since their inception, I would certainly order another set of LB wheels with the stock Novatec hubs.
> 
> ...


I have been confused on whether to go with the wider or not.

Did u weigh the wheels? How much do they weigh? And what spoke count?

Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

zephxiii said:


> I have been confused on whether to go with the wider or not.


Don't be confused. Wider is better! Stop thinking and click "buy" on the AM version


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Wider rims are better, no question.


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## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

the.vault said:


> Why do you say ENVE and LB are on opposite ends of the engineering and production spectrum. Is it soley because they are being produced by chinese company. I've spent a fair amount of time at factories and companies in China, the idea that the skills and products produced there are inherently inferior is rather naive. That is true for more than just bike parts. Sure there are different motivations and the companies operate with different models. ENVE sells a brand. LB sells products.
> 
> For what it's worth, I haven't been to either the ENVE factory or to LB factory.
> 
> I have seen and heard of several more failed ENVE rims. Those rims are not indestructible, and the crash replacement cost is pretty steep compared to LB brand new rim.


Since the thread isn't full of failed LB rims then based on failure rates your probabaly correct. LB reverse engineered and produced a rim that is capable enough. There is however a large potential for LB and ENVE to be on the opposite sides of the engineering and production spectrum.

Use of advanced polymers , design and production like autoclaving or even elevated cure can make a big difference . I suggest for the price LB is neither using advanced polymer prepregs[ usually aerospace certified and extremely expensive] or autoclaves.They're rim section looks like it was originally designed for mfg in alloy.They will probably be prepregging there own reinforcement and vacuum moulding at low temperatures.
Usually this lower tech can be overcome by adding extra plies and weight. Which is probably what the chinese firms do making both rims and frames.

As you say the execution of the lower tech is as good as anywhere in the world.

Rims, including LB, are overpriced considering you can get a chinese frame shipped free for a similar price to a pair of LB rims. Materials, labour and mould costs are much higher for the mfg of a frame.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

gvs_nz said:


> Since the thread isn't full of failed LB rims then based on failure rates your probabaly correct. LB reverse engineered and produced a rim that is capable enough. There is however a large potential for LB and ENVE to be on the opposite sides of the engineering and production spectrum.
> 
> Use of advanced polymers , design and production like autoclaving or even elevated cure can make a big difference . I suggest for the price LB is neither using advanced polymer prepregs[ usually aerospace certified and extremely expensive] or autoclaves.They're rim section looks like it was originally designed for mfg in alloy.They will probably be prepregging there own reinforcement and vacuum moulding at low temperatures.
> Usually this lower tech can be overcome by adding extra plies and weight. Which is probably what the chinese firms do making both rims and frames.
> ...


LB prices are going up almost certainly because of this thread. What is the value of trust? Once their prices get too high, a competitor can come in that no one knows, but who will be cheap enough to take a risk on.


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## theturquoisewarrior (Nov 15, 2005)

yourdaguy said:


> As ozzybmx said, with LB rims whatever spokecalc comes up with you could go almost 2 mm shorter. So I am thinking the real ERD of these wheels is around 600 at least by the time they are built up and the nipples seat real good.


I just had my LBS build up my set of LB wide rims. They measured the ERD at 600mm. 
For what it's worth my spoke lengths were all 290mm. This was DT revolutions, DT 12mm aluminium nipples, Chris King 15mm ISO front hub and Chris King ISO single speed rear. Both were 32 hole, 3 cross. 
They calculated out at less than a mm difference for all spokes. The spoke ends mostly came to the screwdriver slot in the end of the nipples. ie, 1 to 2mm from the end of the nipple.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Maxrep said:


> I do own the now discontinued 2.4 Racing Ralphs, and use them in the snow. That you use such a tire as a daily driver likely results from the Enve xc being too narrow. At 18mm, you are giving up internal volume among other benefits as well.


So ENVE have go it wrong with their 18mm internal width XC rims ?

And the reason I use 2.4 RR's is because I don't own suspension, all my bikes are fully rigid..... including my fatbikes with 65mm internal rim width.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Maxrep said:


> With the very slight weight concession you give for the 23mm rims, I don't think there are any durable arguments for opting for 21mm ones when considering all the benefits involved with increased internal rim width.


Another super-fact from your vast experience.

My 21mm rims are on my monstercross bike and will be sporting 1.5-1.9" tyres so why would I need a rim that's a massive 2mm wider ?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

If you are running narrowe tires its ok to run narrow rims. If you are running wider tires you may like wider rims better but narrow rims will still work.

Call enve and ask. They will tell you am rims are meant for wider tires and aren't stronger than the XC rims. They are basically the same just wider. That's what they told me.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

I don't need to ask ENVE anything.

Though your comparison is not even close.

ENVE XC are 18mm, ENVE AM are 24mm.... not 2mm difference at 21mm to 23mm !

You would think it was road rims v downhill rims the way some are getting on here.


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Maxrep said:


> The wheelset came in at 1620grams. However, they were built with the 811/812 hubs as I needed a 15mm front through axle and LB did not offer a 700 series hub for the rear wheel and an 800 series hub for the front. I did let Ms. Nancy know that there was a demand for this option though.
> 
> The spoke count was 32, and aero spokes with the stock build are quite light.
> 
> ...


I just got the exact same build and mine weighed in at 1570g


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## Can2fieldSD (May 31, 2013)

I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

ENVE 24 mm rims $850 each. LB 23 mm rims ~$200 each with freight. The ENVE rims weigh 440 grams. LB weight varies from 370 to 420 but gernerally around 395. Both are very strong and durable so both are "good enough" in that regard.

You can talk all you want about manufacturing processes, engineering, materials specifications, etc. etc. The fact is that LB is getting the job done in regards to all these attributes. Are the ENVE wheels better? Probably, but in the real world, the difference makes no difference because the LB wheels are fully functional and lighter and cheaper too.

Every product is a series of decisions. The ENVE wheels have molded spoke holes. That is an expensive decision. It makes ENVE have to have molds for every possible drilling and makes the molding process much more time consuming and costly. I would not be surprised that it alone, doubled the manufacturing cost of ENVE wheels. It makes the spoke holes stronger since the fibers run around the holes and are not drilled out weakening them. However, if you never have a spoke pull through problem on LB wheels, it is a needless expense. Since the LB wheels are rated at very high spoke tension (higher than most aluminum nipples would tolerate), then molded spoke holes is solving a problem that it is not really necessary to solve. The ENVE wheels would probably have better spoke pull through strength, but it is not necessary. Another decision seems to be to make the ENVE rims heavier. I think if you analyze the rims, you would find that the ENVE rims have a much stouter bead seat and would be much more resistant to cracking from rock hits. This has seemed to be the main failure mode for LB wheels. Since I don't go slamming rocks on downhills, this is not a concern to me. However, the guys that want to do that sort of riding, would probably not be a good market for the LB wheels. Those same guys would not be a candidate for Crest rims either and might be better served by Flows. I am an XC rider but I ride fast and have tacoed a Crest and blown a tire completely off a Crest even though I only weigh 170 and am old so I don't ride Crests anymore. I have never had an issue with my Flows or my LB rims.

For the type of riding that I do, I would always choose the LB wheels for the light weight and low cost and (so far) bullet-proofness, but for others, the ENVE would be a better fit. I am thinking that probably 80% of the people on here would be better served by the LB wheels and the other 20% really need the extra stoutness of the ENVE wheels.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Comparing ENVE to LB is like comparing Motobecane Ti against Jeff Jones Ti. The Moto Ti is good enough but JJ Ti IS better and lots are willing to pay for it, just like ENVE vs LB rims. IF I could justify it, I'd be all over a set of ENVE AM rims but I'm not worthy. I'm happily riding my LB rims into the sunset knowing that I'm weak sauce


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Can2fieldSD said:


> I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.


More than one person on this thread has them built with I9 hubs.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

DFYFZX said:


> Comparing ENVE to LB is like comparing Motobecane Ti against Jeff Jones Ti. The Moto Ti is good enough but JJ Ti IS better and lots are willing to pay for it, just like ENVE vs LB rims. IF I could justify it, I'd be all over a set of ENVE AM rims but I'm not worthy. I'm happily riding my LB rims into the sunset knowing that I'm weak sauce


Heh... funny thing is, The Motobecane is lighter than the Jeff Jones Spaceframe. :thumbsup:

Naturally, weight is not the only measure of how good a bike is, I know.


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

My nancy wheels arrived. Very happy. Build quality spot on. Wide 29er mtb rims laced to novatec 881 hubs and pillar aero spokes. Front weigh in at 785g and rear 1010g. Front 15mm rear 142 x 12 mm going onto my 2012 sj fsr


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> Heh... funny thing is, The Motobecane is lighter than the Jeff Jones Spaceframe. :thumbsup:


and Nancy wides are lighter than ENVE AM... Novatec lighter than King... why funny?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

This thread is doomed now.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

yourdaguy said:


> ENVE 24 mm rims $850 each. LB 23 mm rims ~$200 each with freight. The ENVE rims weigh 440 grams. LB weight varies from 370 to 420 but gernerally around 395. Both are very strong and durable so both are "good enough" in that regard.
> 
> You can talk all you want about manufacturing processes, engineering, materials specifications, etc. etc. The fact is that LB is getting the job done in regards to all these attributes. Are the ENVE wheels better? Probably, but in the real world, the difference makes no difference because the LB wheels are fully functional and lighter and cheaper too.
> 
> ...


Excellent post


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Miker J said:


> Wider rims are better, no question.


Second that... apart from the only downside I can think of, and that is weight. These Carbon AM rims are stupid light to begin with at under 400g, so IMO... well worth the trade off for saving 20 grams with the narrower XC Carbon rim. A regular lightweight XC aluminum rim usually hovers around 470 grams.


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## joezuri (Mar 26, 2011)

fixed the wheels up onto my sj 29er. Was using hope hoops evo with crest sp. Nancy fronts are 10g lighter than the hope and nancy rears are 90g heavier than hopes.


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## TwoWheelMan (Jan 5, 2009)

Here's a quick review after ~1000km in the last few months.

Build: LB wide rims laced cross-3 to to I-9 Torch hubs with Sapim CX-Rays. 32 spoke. Both rims are 'old process', 3K weave matte finish, and came in at 385g +/- a few grams. The rims' non-angled spoke holes are annoying (come on LB, you can and should fix this!). After experimenting with a few nips, I found the rounded profile of Sapim poly-ax nips were best at dealing with the non-angled holes. 

Me and bike: Wheels are on my 100mm bike. I am 175lb, 6'2, reasonably successful XC and endurance racer for an old dude, and also ride a lot of stuff that is labelled 'all mountain' with, uh, vigor (e.g BC NS, Sedona H's, Enchilada, etc). I am not a hucker though, nor do I consider myself particularly hard on wheels or bike parts in general.

Where ridden: Since building the wheels, I've ridden Pisgah (Pilot, Black Mtn, Squirrel yadda yadda numerous times), plus all 7 stages of TSEpic stage race (podium) in central PA including the DH runs which were used for enduros. TSEpic has a lot of rocks. Really.

Tire compatibility: Notubes yellow tape and sealant has been successful for me. I've run Schwalbe Snakeskin Ralphs and Rons (both 2.25") , and 2.2" Ikon EXOs. Tires mount with hand pressure, but do _not_ seal as easily as on my Notubes rims. A good compressor is needed. But once mounted, they have been fine. Front/rear pressures of 21/23 to 28/30ish, depending on course and whims.

Verdict: The rims built up very nicely. Straight and even tension. They are still dead true after the riding described above. The rims are very scuffed now, but still working fine. There have been a few hard rock strikes to the rim but the rims are holding up OK. I'm pretty sure I'd have dented my aluminum rims. Compared to my aluminum rims of similar weight, the LB wheels are noticably stiffer. I like that. A lot.

Thumbs up so far.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

ozzybmx said:


> Here you go, ive just built these as theres no way I would own 2 sets of ENVE wheels.... yeah the ENVE's are awesome but I cant justify having 2 sets.
> 
> Light-bicycle XC rims, 292mm revos (all around) with brass nipples on hope evos.
> 
> ...


I did read it, and that's exactly how I'll build mine. With all the custom colored spoke wheel build, there's something so classy about simple stainless spokes and brass nipples. I like it!


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## Ragz22 (Mar 10, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> ENVE 24 mm rims $850 each. LB 23 mm rims ~$200 each with freight. The ENVE rims weigh 440 grams. LB weight varies from 370 to 420 but gernerally around 395. Both are very strong and durable so both are "good enough" in that regard.
> 
> You can talk all you want about manufacturing processes, engineering, materials specifications, etc. etc. The fact is that LB is getting the job done in regards to all these attributes. Are the ENVE wheels better? Probably, but in the real world, the difference makes no difference because the LB wheels are fully functional and lighter and cheaper too.
> 
> ...


Great post, totally agree


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Ragz22 said:


> Great post, totally agree


He should probably disclose his personal vested interest.
Would you see it the same if it were coming from a salesman?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

meltingfeather said:


> He should probably disclose his personal vested interest.
> Would you see it the same if it were coming from a salesman?


Why, does Yourdaguy (is that supposed to be you'redaguy?) sell LB rims?

I do pretty much agree with him, too. The Enves are nicer, but are they 5 times nicer? I have to work for a living, and if I held out for Enve rims, I would never own a set. But, I could (and do) afford LB AM rims...and I'm close to getting another set. I've run mine for a year, and I haven't even touched the nipples (huh... huhuhuh). They're still as dead-on-ballz straight as they were the day I built and tensioned them. Heck, even alu rims I usually have to make some minor tweaks on after the first couple of rides.


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## Ragz22 (Mar 10, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> He should probably disclose his personal vested interest.
> Would you see it the same if it were coming from a salesman?


I brought the 26" rims and think they are great, especially for the price. I did consider buying enve rims and it was only the price which put me off.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I don't have any interest in the bike industry, I think meltingfeather was referring to Ragz22 who liked my post and seems to live in China. The other 2 that agreed with my post didn't have any interest in the bike industry and I think meltinffeather was just pointing out that this particular poster might have liked it for other reasons too.

When I originally read meltingfeather.'s post I thought he was referring to me and I was starting to write a response then I figured out he was referring to Ragz22.


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## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

I picked up my 29" wheels from the shop today and gave them a thorough beating in my local boneyard at race pace. I noticed a huge difference from my Crests before I left the parking lot. They accelerate faster and they are just point n shoot. Railing corners was much more precise. 

I built the wide rims (3k matte)with CX Rays on American Classic's with black DT brass nipples, Stan's tape and valves. Front came in at 700g (40g less that my Crests with Force spokes, alu nips and AC hubs). The rear was identical to the crest at 840g. Very pleased with the look too. No pictures, they're already muddy.

I moved the tires off the Crests, both went on with hand pressure. Front is a RaRa 2.4, rear an Ikon 2.2 Both tires sealed with compressor and no Stan's, then removed the valve cores and added a cup into each.


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## Gee2 (Aug 8, 2004)

So after many months of reading the reviews on MTBR, I went for a pair of the Light Bicycle carbon rims from China at £135 each delivered. They were shipped a week after I ordered them and arrived 9 working days after shipping. All good from start to finish. Excellent email communications.

They arrived yesterday, 3k weave, 32h, 372g and 380g. Absolutely perfect finish inside and out. They were very easy to build up. They went up tubeless just as easy as a Stans rim - I used a couple of layers of insulation tape and the usual valve.

First ride tonight and wow - they are stiff. I wasn't sure they were worth the money riding them to work on the road this morning, but round fast berms and corners where you are really leaning into the bend they just don't flex like a Stans rim. Stans feel really whippy by comparison. I ran my usual pressure and had no tyre roll or squirm at all. A really noticeable difference. I guess this could be due to the wider rim profile compared to the Stans rim, though.

Now let's just see how long they last....

Some pics of the build, of the bike with the new rims, King hubs, new XTR discs and some nice wider bars too as my old ones were damaged. Ison also had some custom Sala/MTFU ODI lock-on grip lockrings made... Just about the most awesome thing I've ever seen.

GB


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

Hi all,

I'm interested in getting some Chinese carbon rims and I noticed most people here got theirs from Light Bicycles. I'm wondering if anyone have experience with YoeLeo rims, like this one:
29er Tubeless Rims - 29er Tubeless Carbon Rims MTB Clincher Rims 25mm

I read somewhere else that Yoeleo's quality is better than Light Bicycle... Don't know if that's true or not.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well if you can't tell us where you read it, we probably don't believe it. They are the same price and from the looks are the same rims. If you want to be a pioneer, buy some and let us know. Otherwise, from personal experience, I doubt they are better, maybe just as good.


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

I read it from another bike forum. It was from a guy who claims he's used both rims from Yoeleo and Light Bicycle and found Yoeleo's quality to be better. But that might be just his personal opinion.

The thing that interests me about these YoeLeo's rims in particular is that it claims to be tubeless and 24mm width and 25mm depth vs. LB's 23mm x 20mm. Don't know what's the difference between this tubeless one vs. the tubeless compatible ones. The spoke holes don't appear to be sealed from the pictures. Maybe it's easier to mount tubeless tires?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well there are only so many bike sites, which ones do you visit?
Their bead seat profile looks the same from the diagram they supply.
Since you only have the 2 posts both in this thread, how are we supposed to believe that you are not a shill for Yoeleo?
I am all in favor of competition and everything, but I see no advantage to the relatively unknown brand other than you claim you read of its superiority somewhere on some bike site you don't name.
Google doesn't seem to work help since amazingly, everywhere on the web that Yoeleo talks about itself it refers to its "super light bicycle" stuff. Although I guess I could -super; but I will let you do that to find your original article.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Heh it would be nice to have a LB only thread as it gets confusing when we start talking about other sources...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

RisingStar said:


> I read it from another bike forum. It was from a guy who claims he's used both rims from Yoeleo and Light Bicycle and found Yoeleo's quality to be better. But that might be just his personal opinion.
> 
> The thing that interests me about these YoeLeo's rims in particular is that it claims to be tubeless and 24mm width and 25mm depth vs. LB's 23mm x 20mm. Don't know what's the difference between this tubeless one vs. the tubeless compatible ones. The spoke holes don't appear to be sealed from the pictures. Maybe it's easier to mount tubeless tires?


Link to rims? Link to other discussion on other board?


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## RisingStar (Jun 7, 2013)

This is the link to YoeLeo's 25mm tubeless rims:
29er Tubeless Rims - 29er Tubeless Carbon Rims MTB Clincher Rims 25mm

This is the link to where I read someone (Jimmym) was claimming YeoLeo is better:
Yoeleo Wheels [Archive] - Bike Forums

I know nothing about YoeLeo or Light Bicycle. My purpose is not to start a debate whether Yoeleo is better or not. I just want to hear from people who have used Yoeleo's rim. I'm just doing research to see which one is the best to upgrade my bike. I'm a newbie who bought my first mountain bike in 18 years about 2 months ago. I bought a Diamondback Sortie 1 and the thing is heavy as hell. So I'm looking to upgrade it to carbon wheels, carbon seatpost, handlebar, stem, and crankset and eventually even a carbon frame.

If no one here has experience with Yoeleo rims, then I'll probably buy Light Bicycle's. I hate being a pioneer and find out the hard way...


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

The Yoeleo is 24mm outside & the LB is 23 inside so is much wider.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

"Jimmy" is a shill. I frequent Bike Forums and "Jimmy" is not a contributing member there. Light Bikes would be a prudent choice in this case.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yea, the link he sent us was from a road single speed/fixed gear forum and they are talking about road wheels.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

maybe someone should start another thread. the link and discussion will be lost in this thread. i already have carbon rims, so could care less. but some one might like another brand of rim.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

So as I was about to pull my bike down from my bike rack, my friend says he doesn't want to be the bearer of bad news, but you've got a crack in your rim. I had just swapped out a tire and was about to tell him how easy the tires seat without a compressor. It must have happened during my ride last week. I was coming down a hill, and there was a one foot drop to a flat landing. It burped pretty bad, but I thought it was due to the awkward angle that I landed. I had to pump the tire up a few times during the ride despite putting in the travel sized Stans shot I put in during the ride. The Ardents were a year old and much of the sidewall threads were coming through. A new tire was in order. I ride in south east PA (french creek, brandywine, wissahickon) and rocky terrain is the norm. 

Despite the quarter inch crack in the rim, I decided to continue on with my ride through Wissahickon. I figured if it could stand the rock garden that I was about to embark on, it would be good for the rest of the ride. It held up fine the whole ride. I was somewhat confident in the rim given that it was holding air fine tubeless. 

So now what do you recommend? OK to continue riding? Does anyone have experience with the warranty or crash replacement policy at Light Bike? These are Wider, 32H, 29er rims,old process, in Matte finish. I probably have about 300 miles on them over the past 5 months. I'm riding a Santa Cruz Tallboy LTC. I'll still recommend these rims, and will get a pair for my single speed.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You can probably safely repair it, but I think their crash replacement is probably the best bet since even buying a new rim is only around $200 with shipping and to repair properly would take time and materials.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Aly22ssa said:


> I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.


Why wouldn't they?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

the mayor said:


> Why wouldn't they?


Second that. I thought there were a few folks running these with i9 hubs. IIRC, I9 has a bunch of common length spokes. This isn't an oddball ERD size or anything. I think the only rub might be getting spoke holes big enough for the spokes, but hey... that's what a drill is for.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

try to warranty them. If you can't, you have nothing to lose by trying the bandaid repair:
. Remove the tire and rim strip/rim tape. Clean off any residual sealant with soapy water.
2. Sand down the impacted area with a ~300 grit sandpaper. Get rid of some of the loose splinters of carbon and get a good look at what you are dealing with. Don't over sand things
3. Clean the sanded areas well, blow out all sanding debris with clean, dry compressed air, and then hose it down with isopropyl alcohol (IPA). Let the IPA flash off.
4. Look for delaminations, if you can push on the impact site and see layers moving around, that is a delamination. I used a thin pointy scribe to open up the delam's and squirt in a good low viscosity super glue, avoid the thick stuff, you want this to run and flow into the delaminations. I pressed things together after this with my fingers and the scribe (with nitrile gloves on) while the superglue was still wet to work the glue into the damaged area I then let this dry for about 10 minutes. 
5. Resand the impacted area you just super glued again with a ~300 grit sandpaper. You need to abraid the surface so the next layer of adhesive has something to hold onto.
6. Blow out the sanding debris with clean, dry air, hose it down with IPA and let if flash off.
7. Mix up a small amount of epoxy/adhesive, I prefer something that has a 60-90 minute working time so I can do steps 8-10 a couple times with the same batch of mixed adhesive, but can have the cure accelerated with a little heat if desired as well.
8. I used teflon tape and teflon release film to make a little flap I could cover the entire impact area with, then applied the adhesive, put the flap over the area and tried to make it smooth and wrinkle free
9. I then clamped a flexibly sheet of silicon rubber over the impact area, set it in front of a hot halogen lamp for 30 minutes to mostly cure the adhesive.
10. Remove clamp, remove the silicon rubber, peel open teflon flap, look to see if the adhesive flowed into the impact and needs a little more applied. If no more is needed, move on, if more is needed, repeat steps 5-9 with another thin coat.
11. Let adhesive cure at least overnight, or under the heat lamp for another hour or so. Be careful not to use too hot of a lamp, most epoxy resins have a glass transition temperature (Tg) in the 250-300F range, and you could damage the rim if you get hotter than this for prolonged periods of time. Keep it in the 125-150F range ideally. You should be able to hold a finger on the rim under the heat lamp for 3-5 seconds without burning yourself, or use a digital meat thermometer, etc... to see where you are at.
12. Sand as much excess adhesive away, Start with 300-grit and work your way down to 600 or 1000 grit to make it pretty, but use caution not to sand into the carbon surrounding the impact area. Too thick of a patch is more likely to crack and fail than a nice thin layer.
13. Ride and report back. Get enough people trying these bandaids and we can refine things. 
And keep in mind, these are bandaid solutions. They require you to keep an eye on them, and may need to be redone if the bond is too thick and cracks. And sometimes bandaids can't fix things "good enough".p


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I know this is for the lawyers/dentists/pro racer crowd, but if they made some 25-26mm wide tubular rims, a la the DT Swiss 950T, I'd be all over them.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

eonicks said:


> So as I was about to pull my bike down from my bike rack, my friend says he doesn't want to be the bearer of bad news, but you've got a crack in your rim. I had just swapped out a tire and was about to tell him how easy the tires seat without a compressor. It must have happened during my ride last week. I was coming down a hill, and there was a one foot drop to a flat landing. It burped pretty bad, but I thought it was due to the awkward angle that I landed. I had to pump the tire up a few times during the ride despite putting in the travel sized Stans shot I put in during the ride. The Ardents were a year old and much of the sidewall threads were coming through. A new tire was in order. I ride in south east PA (french creek, brandywine, wissahickon) and rocky terrain is the norm.
> 
> Despite the quarter inch crack in the rim, I decided to continue on with my ride through Wissahickon. I figured if it could stand the rock garden that I was about to embark on, it would be good for the rest of the ride. It held up fine the whole ride. I was somewhat confident in the rim given that it was holding air fine tubeless.
> 
> So now what do you recommend? OK to continue riding? Does anyone have experience with the warranty or crash replacement policy at Light Bike? These are Wider, 32H, 29er rims,old process, in Matte finish. I probably have about 300 miles on them over the past 5 months. I'm riding a Santa Cruz Tallboy LTC. I'll still recommend these rims, and will get a pair for my single speed.


Bummer my friend. Where at Wiss did you do that (or was it not a Wiss)?

I myself would opt for just swapping the rim.


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## meerkite (Oct 26, 2011)

Are the LB AM wheelset lighter and stronger than flows and evos? or average priced ali factory wheelset ? I have looked at weights and they are not that much lighter... I am going to build a carbon 29er next month and am interested in the LB wheels, but where I ride its very rocky, not many drops but loads of rockgardens etc. What are the benefits of these carbon wheels ?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

eonicks said:


> It must have happened during my ride last week. I was coming down a hill, and there was a one foot drop to a flat landing. It burped pretty bad, but I thought it was due to the awkward angle that I landed. I had to pump the tire up a few times during the ride despite putting in the travel sized Stans shot I put in during the ride.
> 
> These are Wider, 32H, 29er rims,old process, in Matte finish. I probably have about 300 miles on them over the past 5 months. I'm riding a Santa Cruz Tallboy LTC. I'll still recommend these rims, and will get a pair for my single speed.


Curious if you were running tape or the Bontrager strip when this happened?

Second question: What is your weight?


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

meerkite said:


> What are the benefits of these carbon wheels ?


Extremely stiff wheels without the weight penalty, but these probably not be a good choice it you are currently dinging or denting your aluminum wheels.
Seems like most of the failures with these wheels are with square edge hits, and/or people running wrong tires for the wrong conditions. If you protect them with good big rubber with a little higher PSI probably will not have any issues.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I know this is for the lawyers/dentists/pro racer crowd, but if they made some 25-26mm wide tubular rims, a la the DT Swiss 950T, I'd be all over them.


"They" do make them....


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> ... mine was a direct swap. I used new nipples, naturally. I didn't even de-lace the hub to do it. :thumbsup:
> 
> Of course, YMMV.


I plan to do the same thing. Is there any reason to NOT re-use nipples? Also, I used anti-sieze for the spoke threads and grease on the nipple/rim interface (Stans rims). What do you use for these Carbon rims?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

the mayor said:


> "They" do make them....


Ok, minus the $2500 MSRP, smarty pants.

Rim only, delivered to my door like their wonderful 30mm wide clincher rims.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Ok, minus the $2500 MSRP, smarty pants.
> 
> Rim only, delivered to my door like their wonderful 30mm wide clincher rims.


They do make them....
Bevato, Gigatex and others amke them.
here's one ( and if you can tell the c hair
difference between 24mm and 25 mm ......)
link


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

epiphreddy said:


> I plan to do the same thing. Is there any reason to NOT re-use nipples? Also, I used anti-sieze for the spoke threads and grease on the nipple/rim interface (Stans rims). What do you use for these Carbon rims?


Well, mostly the sides get a bit boogered up when tensioning them. Truth be told, I'll reuse a brass nipple if it looks pristine. I don't grease the nipple seats. You kinda need a bit of grip there. I do use a tiny dab of copper anti-seize on the spoke threads. Stuck nipples suck.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

jochribs said:


> Bummer my friend. Where at Wiss did you do that (or was it not a Wiss)?
> 
> I myself would opt for just swapping the rim.


I think I did it at Brandywine. I made it successfully through Wiss after I discovered the crack. I sent a note to LB to see what options I have.


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## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

These carbon rims seem to ride great but are open to cracks on direct hits/low air etc.. maybe the thing to do is -- order up a 2nd rim right now-- that will get you back on the road.. Then send in your cracked rim and have it warrantied... Then youll have a back up.. Should you crack another rim-- you can send that in and put this one you had as back up on-- and your not off the bike ..


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

BruceBrown said:


> Curious if you were running tape or the Bontrager strip when this happened?
> 
> Second question: What is your weight?


200 lbs with gear. I'm running gorilla tape. The tire is still sealed two days after the pictures above.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

SB Trails said:


> These carbon rims seem to ride great but are open to cracks on direct hits/low air etc.. maybe the thing to do is -- order up a 2nd rim right now-- that will get you back on the road.. Then send in your cracked rim and have it warrantied... Then youll have a back up.. Should you crack another rim-- you can send that in and put this one you had as back up on-- and your not off the bike ..


Great recommendation. I'm going to go this route.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Why is it a warranty issue? It is not Light bicycles fault you need more air in the tire,bounced the rim off a square edge, or burped a tire from awkward landing.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Agreed, damage because of low tire pressures is not a warranty issue with any company.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Not warranty, but do they have crash replacement option?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

eonicks said:


> 200 lbs with gear. I'm running gorilla tape. The tire is still sealed two days after the pictures above.


All these posts about failure have gotten in my head and I am now running a few more PSI.

Does anyone sell a super light, Bluetooth TPMS for presta valves?

170lbs geared up, bonty strips, now running 22f and 23r.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I've got 1600mi on my set and in the last 3 weeks I've had two bad rim strikes that delaminated the rim lip. No radial crack like some of the others. Both repairable imo. Both where square edge rock hits. These rims make a very strange sound when they take a hard hit. 

The first was with a Renegade control mounted and it snake bit the tire. It isn't even visible on the outside edge of the rim, but slightly splintered on the inside. Was running 30psi on a 5" travel frame and I'm 165lb. Probably going 25mph.

The second was with an Ikon Exo with 27psi on a hardtail. Burped 2psi of air and kept going. This was in an armored creek crossing going ~20mph that I've crossed 100's of times. Not even sure what I hit. Barely visible lines on the outer surface from the deformation. A few small fracture lines on the edge of the lip. I can feel a slightly bump when running my finger along the outer surface of the lip.

Definitely frustrated that it happened, but haven't really decided yet how this affects my opinion on these rims. Not sure which direction I'd take if had to replace one. As hard as these hits where, I doubt a few extra psi would have saved the rim. I'm going to keep riding it and see how it goes. I already repaired the first delam with thin CA. Will do the same on the second here shortly.


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## midbunchlurker (Mar 18, 2005)

ktm520; said:


> Definitely frustrated that it happened, but haven't really decided yet how this affects my I'm going to keep riding it and see how it goes. I already repaired the first delam with thin CA. Will do the same on the second here shortly.


Thin CA?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

CA glue also known as superglue, you can get it at any rc hobby shop. They make different types. according to Wikipedia CA types are industrial grades whatever that means.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Cyanoacrylate, aka super glue. Get it at the local hobby shop.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

the mayor said:


> They do make them....
> Bevato, Gigatex and others amke them.
> here's one ( and if you can tell the c hair
> difference between 24mm and 25 mm ......)
> link


Bike hub store dot com sells them; anywhere else?


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## midbunchlurker (Mar 18, 2005)

ktm520 said:


> Cyanoacrylate, aka super glue. Get it at the local hobby shop.


Cool, thanks. Hopefully I never have to use any on my brand new rims, but there's some gnarly rock gardens around here and I'm starting to get nervous.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Adim_X said:


> Why is it a warranty issue? It is not Light bicycles fault you need more air in the tire,bounced the rim off a square edge, or burped a tire from awkward landing.


I was wondering about the warranty or crash replacement policy in my original questions


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

eonicks said:


> I was wondering about the warranty or crash replacement policy in my original questions


Not a warranty issue but you could ping them about crash replacement although I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

eonicks said:


> 200 lbs with gear. I'm running gorilla tape. The tire is still sealed two days after the pictures above.


I have to hypothesize.

Wonder if the burp would have happened with the Bonty strip? I'm going with post #131 in this long AXX thread and say the Bonty strips may offer worthy protection from preventing incidents such as you experienced.

Again. This is a hypothesis, but worth considering.

BB


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

The Bonty strips are required as far as I'm concerned. You can hardly get a tire off with these things! I have no worries whatsoever about burps or rolling a tire off. Super cheap, light and the most secure tubeless system I'm ever used. A+++ product that should be on every LB rim owner's radar.


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## BRINGtheCANNOLI (Jun 12, 2013)

DFYFZX said:


> The Bonty strips are required as far as I'm concerned. You can hardly get a tire off with these things! I have no worries whatsoever about burps or rolling a tire off. Super cheap, light and the most secure tubeless system I'm ever used. A+++ product that should be on every LB rim owner's radar.


A dumb question, but do you use a layer of rim tape under the strips, or is it purely just the Bontrager strips and the rims?

This'll be my first tubeless setup and I've purchased the strips so am just waiting on the arrival of the rims.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

DFYFZX said:


> The Bonty strips are required as far as I'm concerned. You can hardly get a tire off with these things! I have no worries whatsoever about burps or rolling a tire off. Super cheap, light and the most secure tubeless system I'm ever used. A+++ product that should be on every LB rim owner's radar.


People can hate Trek all they want but the Bontrager tubeless system is the easiest out there by far.


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

I just set mine up last night using gorilla tape. I never had a tubeless setup seat as easily as this. I reused my Specialized GC tires from old wheels. These were a pain in the a$$ to seat on the previous rims.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

As a guy who has blown a tire completely off a Crest rim hitting a little ditch crossing too hard; I can tell you that the Bonty rim strips hold a tire with almost twice the security of Stan's. I have total confidence in my LB/Bontrager system. Like Bruce, I wonder if the burp had something to do with the problem.


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

BRINGtheCANNOLI said:


> A dumb question, but do you use a layer of rim tape under the strips, or is it purely just the Bontrager strips and the rims?
> 
> This'll be my first tubeless setup and I've purchased the strips so am just waiting on the arrival of the rims.


You only need the bontrager rim strips. They take place of the rim tape and fit fairly tight.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> As a guy who has blown a tire completely off a Crest rim hitting a little ditch crossing too hard; I can tell you that the Bonty rim strips hold a tire with almost twice the security of Stan's. I have total confidence in my LB/Bontrager system. Like Bruce, I wonder if the burp had something to do with the problem.


I'm going to try the bonty strips next time. I ordered a new pair.... new process this time. I asked them to add some layers, and they came back saying they'd be 400 to 420 grams.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

tiflow_21 said:


> You only need the bontrager rim strips. They take place of the rim tape and fit fairly tight.


My wheelbuilder threw a layer of Stan's tape on my wheels when he built them. I threw the Bonty strip right on over the tape. Tape is not required but it doesn't bother me that it's there...


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Anyone interested in an even more hardcore "Nancy" 29er rim? I emailed her and she said it's most definitely a possibility if the interest was there.

Take a second to fill out the poll and maybe make a few suggestions if you have your own ideas.

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-compone...t-bicycle-carbon-rim-860095.html#post10468209


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

What I wouldn't give for fat bike nancy (LB) rims...

80mm or 100mm please!


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

dfiler said:


> What I wouldn't give for fat bike nancy (LB) rims...
> 
> 80mm or 100mm please!


Heck yes! I'm getting a fat bike later this year. A carbon rim would be awesome!!! Message her and get the ball rolling


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

I am officially done with these rims. I am running the 26er version and cracked the bead in two places last year. 
Ordered two new rims, figuring I would give them another chance and had a set built up in March. I have about 300km on them and cracked my rear today except this time, the bead is crushed and wouldnt hold sealant. Maybe this was a freak accident. (I know exactly where it happened and the rock that did it was pointed enough that it likely would have damaged or dented an aluminum rim but my issue is that I dont' know how to build a wheel and getting it rebuilt again from my LBS is not worth it.)
I put a tube in and figure since I have such low km's on it, I am going to ride it with a tube until it fails completely. 

Who knows....this could be one durable tubed wheelset in the long run but I am not spending anymore money on them.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Gunnar-man said:


> I am officially done with these rims. I am running the 26er version and cracked the bead in two places last year.
> Ordered two new rims, figuring I would give them another chance and had a set built up in March. I have about 300km on them and cracked my rear today except this time, the bead is crushed and wouldnt hold sealant. Maybe this was a freak accident. (I know exactly where it happened and the rock that did it was pointed enough that it likely would have damaged or dented an aluminum rim but my issue is that I dont' know how to build a wheel and getting it rebuilt again from my LBS is not worth it.)
> I put a tube in and figure since I have such low km's on it, I am going to ride it with a tube until it fails completely.
> 
> Who knows....this could be one durable tubed wheelset in the long run but I am not spending anymore money on them.


Learning to build them yourself takes some of the sting out of it.

Wheelbuilding


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

Need some suggestions. My wheel builder built up my rims with straight 14g Dt spokes. They now weigh too much, 860 for the front 950 for the rear. This is with Hope Evo's 

What spokes are you guys running? 

Thanks!

By the time I'm done I could have gotten the Rovals! Ha!


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

You could try dt revolutions or aerolights(think thats the right name, someone please correct me if im wrong) or sapim cx-rays


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

sapim 2.0/1.5. having some bad luck with sticks in my wheels. trued the front once the rear twice.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have used DT revolutions on my last 2 builds and they have been trouble free and built up easy. I think they are the best all around spoke for a MTB wheel and a road wheel too if you don't need bladed spokes.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

xc biker said:


> sapim cx-rays


Save the coin and use round spokes.


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## MondoRides (Feb 18, 2004)

YamaDan said:


> Need some suggestions. My wheel builder built up my rims with straight 14g Dt spokes. They now weigh too much, 860 for the front 950 for the rear. This is with Hope Evo's
> 
> What spokes are you guys running?
> 
> ...


My wide, new process, 29" wheels came back at 1710g with Chris King hubs, DT Competition spokes and alloy nipples. Not super light either but weighed less than the ZTR Arch EX wheelset they are replacing. If I were doing it again I might have gone with the DT Revolution spokes instead but honestly doubt if I could tell the difference on the trail.


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

If you like the Wheelsmith stuff, how about the DB14s? about 80g more per wheelset, and about 120$ less. seems like a good compromise.



YamaDan said:


> Need some suggestions. My wheel builder built up my rims with straight 14g Dt spokes. They now weigh too much, 860 for the front 950 for the rear. This is with Hope Evo's
> 
> What spokes are you guys running?
> 
> ...


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Revos with brass nipples and on Hope hubs. I am about 95kg ready to ride and have used revos on the last 5 sets of wheels ive built... at $80 for a box of 72 they are hard to beat.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

ozzybmx said:


> Revos with brass nipples and on Hope hubs. I am about 95kg ready to ride and have used revos on the last 5 sets of wheels ive built... at $80 for a box of 72 they are hard to beat.


291 right?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

YamaDan said:


> 291 right?


I built mine with 292mm all around but if I was building again I would go 290mm or 291mm. The 292mm were fine but after dishing, tensioning and truing the DS threads were max'd out.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

YamaDan said:


> 291 right?


My LBS hooks me up with DT Swiss Double Butted for about $1.25 each. I see no reason to switch.


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## agentorangemen (Aug 5, 2005)

Can anyone give data points on current lead times? 

I've heard between 12 days to a month.

I'm trying to gauge if I should buy a cheap interim wheelset until these get delivered.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

has anyone tried the sun ringle hubs with these? I'd like to build the new process wide rims with polymax nipples, supercomp spokes, and the sun ringle mountain hubs. Anyone here know how that would turn out?


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

agentorangemen said:


> Can anyone give data points on current lead times?
> 
> I've heard between 12 days to a month.
> 
> I'm trying to gauge if I should buy a cheap interim wheelset until these get delivered.


I ordered on 5/31, they said 10 business days to finish rims (14 calendar days). Prob 5 days to ship so maybe 19 calendar days.

You can ask them what the lead time is.

Also I use the .50 sapim double butted spokes from dans comp.


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

I'll be quite honest guys, my LBS got me for $1,450 for the Top of the line Spesh Rovals INSTALLED!

Worth every penny ...for what it's worth


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

everything motorcycl said:


> I'll be quite honest guys, my LBS got me for $1,450 for the Top of the line Spesh Rovals INSTALLED!
> 
> Worth every penny ...for what it's worth


Aren't they $1200 full MSRP?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> Aren't they $1200 full MSRP?


They come in different price points, the SL's MSRP is $1,700.00 afaik.


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

they are making a newer cheaper version that are probably worth the price over the generic cheaper versions...ones I got...:

Specialized Bicycle Components


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Could someone please tell me what type of tape is best to run these tubeless? I have ordered a set of the wider 23mm (inside diameter) and I have some Stans Tape (which fits the Arch EX). Will this work OK? Also, what type of valve stems work best? I appreciate anyones help since this thead has grown to close to 4000 posts.


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## MondoRides (Feb 18, 2004)

epiphreddy said:


> Could someone please tell me what type of tape is best to run these tubeless? I have ordered a set of the wider 23mm (inside diameter) and I have some Stans Tape (which fits the Arch EX). Will this work OK? Also, what type of valve stems work best? I appreciate anyones help since this thead has grown to close to 4000 posts.


Many claim that the Bontrager Rhythm strip is the best method for a secure tubeless setup on this rim. Others have used Stan's tape without any issues. I personally used 1 wrap of 1" wide gorilla tape and Stan's valve stems and sealant. Mounted Schwalbe Racing Ralphs (one new and one not). They popped into place with less than 40 PSI and sealed up nicely. They've been setup almost one week now and have lost little-to-no air in that time. Finally taking them out this weekend for the real test.

BTW, I also have the wider 29" rim.


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## spain (May 29, 2005)

Something new about the 35mm depth rims?


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

I used Stan's tape. The same tape you would use for the Arches. Stan's valves. Nobby Nics. Both mounted with floor pump, valve cores removed to seat the tires. No problems. Over 800 miles of fun abuse.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

For Stans tape, just make sure it is the wider 25mm tape. I've used both Stans and Gorilla, and have had better luck with Gorilla over the long haul.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Gorilla if you don't use the Bontrager strips. Stan's tape is too easy to damage if you swap tires. Gorilla tape is cheaper too


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

I've use the Stan's strips, re-inforced packing tape, Caffelatex red tape, Stan's tape, Gorilla tape and now am experimenting with the Bontrager strips, all of this over the last 5 or 6 years. For me, they all worked. The major differentiator seemed to be the rim. Since last year, I've been building my wheels with the Light Bicycle carbon wide rim and most tires fit a bit tighter on these rims. These are the ones I'm trying the Bonty strips with. So far so good. I still need my air compressor 95% of the time. All the tires I have used have been regular kevlar bead NON UST tires. Been running Continental rubber for the last 3 years. Many Race King 2.2 Supersonics (love those tires for anything dry) and also the older Mountain King Supersonics (my wife has those on her 2 bikes), X-Kings on the back of 2 bikes and the newer Mountain Kings on the front. All on 26" hardtails.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

MondoRides said:


> Many claim that the Bontrager Rhythm strip is the best method for a secure tubeless setup on this rim.


Ghetto tubeless is working great for me. Using QTubes light weight 20" BMX tube with removable presta valves for rim strips, you 29er guys could use a 24" tube.

You get a nice rubber to rubber seal all the way around the bead going ghetto tubeless. . Tires inflated after 2 pumps with a floor pump.

Great way to go if you don't change your tires, but cost ya $5 for new tube when you replace your tire and takes a little more work.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I plan to start with the Stans Yellow tape and unless I have problems I will stick with that. I will be swapping out some Stans rims on Chris King Hubs. My understanding (please someone correct me if I am wrong) is that I can place (tape) the LB rim next to the Stans rims and simply remove/reinstall each spoke/nipple. I have built several wheels but never with Carbon rims. I have always used anti seize for the spoke threads and grease at the AL rim/nipple interface. What are people using for the LB Carbon rim builds?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Skip the lube on carbon parts but otherwise your strategy is good to go. The nipples won't seize into the rim like could happen especially with two different metals. 

But really, it is unlikely grease would cause a problem. You're far more likely to crack the sidewall from casing the rear wheel into a square edge rock.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Something else....are people tensioning these to a similar tension as the Stans rims? Or can you (should you) go higher? If I remember correctly when using stans rims you tension them to "20" on the parktool tensionometer when using DT Swiss Supercomp spokes.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Standard tensioning for the spokes is what you want. 

There was some confusion about what LB recommends. The rims are rated pretty high but there's no reason to actually string it tighter.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

So what is "standard"? My understanding is that you tension the spokes (according to the notubes.com site's recommendation) to the max permitted for the rim you are using. I have read also (as you mention) that the limit posted for the LB rims is unreasonably high and not realistic and probably not possible (due to nipple failure limits) correct.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

It is dependent on the spokes, or more specifically, the thickness of the spokes. My advice is to check the spoke manufacturer's documentation. 

You're right about too high of tension. It can lead to nipple, rim or spoke failure. It also doesn't have that much affect on stiffness. Higher tensioned spokes will stretch less under load but that difference is too small to measure or feel.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

If I remmember correctly, too high spoke tension can also lead to hub flange failure.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

*Paid Spam: DT Swiss 350 rear hub and spokes sized for LB 29er wide carbon rims*

If you get your rims from Nancy, you can get everything else you need for the rear wheel for $170 shipped.

See ad here:

New DT Swiss 350 rear hub and spokes sized for the Light Bicycle carbon rims - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

I built 4 wheels using the LB "wide" rims and these DT Swiss 350 straightpull hubs. They build up pretty nicely. Lacing is stupidly easy, since the exit angle of the spokes is fixed by the hub.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

epiphreddy said:


> So what is "standard"? My understanding is that you tension the spokes (according to the notubes.com site's recommendation) to the max permitted for the rim you are using. I have read also (as you mention) that the limit posted for the LB rims is unreasonably high and not realistic and probably not possible (due to nipple failure limits) correct.


Standard is 110-120kgf, which is plenty for a 32-spoke wheel. No reason to go higher and a few not to.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> It is dependent on the spokes, or more specifically, the thickness of the spokes. My advice is to check the spoke manufacturer's documentation.
> 
> You're right about too high of tension. It can lead to nipple, rim or spoke failure. It also doesn't have that much affect on stiffness. Higher tensioned spokes will stretch less under load but that difference is too small to measure or feel.


I'd say that the recommended spoke tension does not depend on the spokes and that tension changes in the range of normal have no effect on stiffness. :thumbsup:


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## craigebaker (Nov 19, 2010)

rydbyk said:


> Same build as mine:thumbsup: Mine came out at 1483g with Stans yellow tape and valves fwiw.. Did you go with <32 hole?


Rydbyk - I currently have a set of AC MTB 29 Race wheels. I'd like to build up a set of LB wide wheels with these hubs, spokes and nipples. Can you tell me if the spokes will fit or which size I need to order? Thanks in advance!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> I'd say that the recommended spoke tension does not depend on the spokes and that tension changes in the range of normal have no effect on stiffness. :thumbsup:


To be specific, the same tension is desired. However to achieve that tension requires a different reading on the tension meter. This is because its actually measuring deflection, not tension. Thinner spokes deflect easier.

Here is a link to park tools tension to deflection conversion chart. 
http://www.parktool.com/documents/e67c6090d7d95c23c6adf51afa2d34d8d5e32c5e.pdf


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Has anyone built up a set of these using the Industry Nine Torch Classic rear hub? If so, what spoke lengths did you use? Using the prowheelbuilder.com spoke calculator I have come up with left 293.7 and right 292.1mm spokes. I have some 292's and am wondering if they will work properly.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Also, what types of spoke prep and nipple prep did you use?


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Even if I broke one sidewall on a previous rim on a sharp impact, I will order again. Last weekend, on the first lap of the 24h Summer solstice race, I lost control on the fastest turn. I didn't crash but need to put my right foot on the ground at about 50 km/h. The slide was awesome and it scared me a lot. After this scared moment and a bruised foot, the drivetrain did not works properly. I checked the frame and derailler but everything was fine. The problem was in the rear hub, one cartridge bearing simply shear in 2 parts under the force of the slide! The LB rim hold that load with ease.

Next LB wheelset will be new process, pillar bladed spokes, reasonable POE, high quality rear hub, 1500g target weight.

BTW, my right heel is not broken but after one week, I'm not even close to touch the ground with it. It hurt so much!


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

mat g said:


> The problem was in the rear hub, one cartridge bearing simply shear in 2 parts under the force of the slide!


That's either one heck of a slide, or just a poor quality or undersized bearing. What brand of hub is it? One of the reasons I only buy cartridge bearing hubs is the relatively easy replacement of the bearings, but its a double edged sword because the smaller bearings typically used (vs. cup and cone) tend to be more fragile.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

kwarwick said:


> That's either one heck of a slide, or just a poor quality or undersized bearing. What brand of hub is it? One of the reasons I only buy cartridge bearing hubs is the relatively easy replacement of the bearings, but its a double edged sword because the smaller bearings typically used (vs. cup and cone) tend to be more fragile.


You are right about small ball in the cartridge, 6802 bearing in my modified powertap hub. I normally have a spare wheel but this time, the car was so overpacked! To finish the race I had to borrow a friend's bike...

Note: A light alloy rim would be folded for sure!


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

FYI, I rebuilt the 29 LB Cf rims up with Revolutions, 97 grams per wheel difference. 1610 grams wheelset now.

Thanks guys.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

YamaDan said:


> FYI, I rebuilt the 29 LB Cf rims up with Revolutions, 97 grams per wheel difference. 1610 grams wheelset now.
> 
> Thanks guys.


What hub?


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## BOA (Mar 4, 2013)

*Here is my set - 29 wider with Novatec Hubs - Great threat loaded with details*

Received my set today. Complete 29er wide NP set with Novatec D811 15mm thru axle and D812 10x135 QR.

Packing really good. The box had a hole in it but LB secured the rims in such way no harm done and they came out in mint condition.

I did measure the tension of the spokes and all came out evenly and within tolerance.

Used Bontrager rim strips and valves with Racing Ralph with floor pump and two scoops of Stans. Popped and sealed easily.

I have only taken them out for a short spin and I am sure I will love those rims. LB did a good job


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## BOA (Mar 4, 2013)




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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

Glad you are happy with your wheels but search for previous posts by me in this thread - that 812 rear hub is a time bomb.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

I just built up my second set of LB rims. I bought a used access stealth carbon hardtail that came with wtb laserdisc trail wheels. The WTB discs weighed in at around 2100g. I couldnt get them to go tubeless so I switched over to LB heavy rims with dt 240s front and back. The weight is 1726g with gorilla tape as rim tape. The rims themselves weight 400g each exactly. I put a nobby nic up front which aired up with compressor instantly with no leakage. The maxxis ikon on the rear took a little rolling around the drive way to spread the tire to the bead but aired up after about 5 minutes or so of effort. Small bit of seepage.

The bike rides much better now because I can run with the lower pressure that I like. I weigh 165 and like my pressure around 20-23 vs 25-30. I took the new (used) hardtail to a semi technical trail and it was awesome. I previously thought the hardtail was only going to be good on the non technical beginner trail. The low pressure was all the suspension that I needed. Im almost to the point where I think all of austins trails are fine on a hardtail.

My other LB rims I have been running tubeless for about 8 months now with no issues.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I bought some LB wide rims and swapped rims today with an older wheelset and am wondering if anyone else has experienced any wheel hop?. I have the wheel mostly true and no dish issues, but I have a significant hop in the wheel. Are the LB rims fairly high quality and is anyone else experiencing any such issues? What is the technique for removing such hop from a carbon rim? It is radial hop (one spot that dips low) in the truing stand.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

release the tension and try again....
.
.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

epiphreddy said:


> I bought some LB wide rims and swapped rims today with an older wheelset and am wondering if anyone else has experienced any wheel hop?. I have the wheel mostly true and no dish issues, but I have a significant hop in the wheel. Are the LB rims fairly high quality and is anyone else experiencing any such issues? What is the technique for removing such hop from a carbon rim? It is radial hop (one spot that dips low) in the truing stand.


^^^^ Spammer reported.

Back off the tension and bring it back up evenly, count the number of threads, make sure they are all the same when you start to tension the spokes. Work slowly, patience now will pay off. About an 1/8 of a turn at a time to bring it up slowly.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

epiphreddy said:


> I bought some LB wide rims and swapped rims today with an older wheelset and am wondering if anyone else has experienced any wheel hop?. I have the wheel mostly true and no dish issues, but I have a significant hop in the wheel. Are the LB rims fairly high quality and is anyone else experiencing any such issues? What is the technique for removing such hop from a carbon rim? It is radial hop (one spot that dips low) in the truing stand.


Actually, the interior (where the beads stand) and the exterior (where the truing stand rubs), are not always concentrical on molded carbon rim. I don't know about new process rims but the old process seems to use several molding parts to form the interior. So, make an average of the both interior and exterior diameter. But don't overstress a particular section.


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

epiphreddy said:


> I bought some LB wide rims and swapped rims today with an older wheelset and am wondering if anyone else has experienced any wheel hop?. I have the wheel mostly true and no dish issues, but I have a significant hop in the wheel. Are the LB rims fairly high quality and is anyone else experiencing any such issues? What is the technique for removing such hop from a carbon rim? It is radial hop (one spot that dips low) in the truing stand.


who built your wheels? It's usually a sign of a bad build, but conceivably it could be a bad rim. You need to measure how much it is out and if your spoke tension is even while your rim is straight.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

epiphreddy said:


> I bought some LB wide rims and swapped rims today with an older wheelset and am wondering if anyone else has experienced any wheel hop?. I have the wheel mostly true and no dish issues, but I have a significant hop in the wheel. Are the LB rims fairly high quality and is anyone else experiencing any such issues? What is the technique for removing such hop from a carbon rim? It is radial hop (one spot that dips low) in the truing stand.


BTW, you are the 4000th post, congratulation, you need to buy donuts for everyone!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

epiphreddy said:


> I bought some LB wide rims and swapped rims today with an older wheelset and am wondering if anyone else has experienced any wheel hop?. I have the wheel mostly true and no dish issues, but I have a significant hop in the wheel. Are the LB rims fairly high quality and is anyone else experiencing any such issues? What is the technique for removing such hop from a carbon rim? It is radial hop (one spot that dips low) in the truing stand.


It's your wheelbuilding technique. You added tension too quickly, squeezing a bulge into the wheel.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

Pau11y said:


> What hub?


Hope Evo's


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> It's your wheelbuilding technique. You added tension too quickly, squeezing a bulge into the wheel.


So do I back off the tension (2 spokes, 4 spokes?) at the bulge and then go 180 degrees to the other side of the wheel and tighten there the same amount? Or do I loosen on both adjacent sides of the bulge and then tighten where the bulge is?
Or do I loosen all of them and start over with small incremental tensioning?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Back off tension on all spokes by quite a bit. The start tensioning again, this time checking for bulge as you are bringing the tension up.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Great, thanks! I'll give it a shot and report back.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Wheel built up perfectly. The worst advice I read somewhere was to loosen one side and tighten the opposite side when removing a hop in a carbon rim. I de-tensioned as everyone suggested and incrementally tensioned while keeping an eye on the radial trueness first, lateral second, and dish third. I have built up several Stans rims and I can say for a fact that this rim built up much easier. The rim is very true in all three areas. 
All of my readings on my Parktool tensionometer were basically between 98 Kgf and 122Kgf.
How close to one another should the readings be for each spoke? Is this a good range/variance?


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

for one side for me they are all within 10%. I could get it closer but dont bother. So if the average reading is 20 then most will be 20-22. The other side might be 17-18.


----------



## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

10% of the deflection number is probably not a good measure since the tension is exponential... 10% of the tension would be better. I usually build with tensions between 110-120kgf


----------



## jrat2010 (Jun 14, 2010)

*Ride Report*

Here's a quick report on my LB Rims&#8230; LOVE them! These rims are replacing Stan's 355s built up with DT Comps on AC hubs.

*Order-*
Ordered new process wider AM 29er 3K rims on 6/2. You still have to specify "New Process" if you want them done that way. I think they only have one mould for this, so that delays production by a few days. 
Shipped: 6/15 
Arrived: 6/26
I didn't spec the weight, leaving that to chance, and they included two rims of very different weight (380 and 407) Quite happy with that, because the heavy one went in the back, giving me a bit more piece of mind.

*Build*-
Built up with black DT Revolutions, alloy nips/AC hubs. [email protected] meltingfeather resolved any doubts I had about that combo.

First wheel build. These rims are very forgiving. If I had it to do again, I might have waited to measure the ERD before ordering spokes, but I was too impulsive. So I worked off of their 603 spec. After I brought them to tension, some spokes extend beyond the nipples a healthy amount, but I don't think it will be an issue. Could detension and try again, but probably won't. Very light.

*Setup-*
Used Stan's wide yellow tape, got both tires set up for tubeless with a floor pump in about 30 minutes. (Rear needed a little dish soap on the bead.) Tires are old Rocket Rons 2.25.
Holds air better than the old combo, and the bead is much more secure- seems like burping wont be an issue.

*Ride- *
Wow, these wheels are fun! I need a smaller cassette now-its like gaining 2 gears. Climbing on the hardtail was already great, now its ridiculous. The wider profile of the tire is hugely confidence inspiring, and with the extra volume, I have to adjust how I gauge pressure- the squeeze test gives a different feel, but I've been lowering pressure with each ride, and it feels like its great now.

It takes a few rides to adjust to how precise the steering is on the front. I found myself oversteering. Thankfully, the wide footprint makes it easier to correct mistakes.

I was wondering at first if carbon rims would not make sense for a rigid bike. Then I used some science and common sense. There is no downside.

And qualitatively, I feel like the bike is "quieter." I can't really put my finger on it, but there it is. It's a quieter ride, less pinging off crap.

In short, I'm thrilled with these rims. Three rides so far and couldn't be happier. After the next few rides, I imagine I'll stop babying them. But I wouldn't think twice about doing it again. Props to first adopters and all who contributed to this massive thread!


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I had pretty much the same experience as jrat, in fact weirdly similar. I replaced the exact 355 wheelset w/ LB wide rims, A/C front hub, I9 Torch rear hub 32 hole 3X Black DT Revo's w/ black sapim alloy polyax nipples. I used gorilla tape, easy setup w/ IKONs. I'm riding a Trek HiFi. I couldn't believe how different these wheels felt. I can't beleive the stiffness(?) of the front end. It's point and shoot. I didn't realize how not stiff my old wheels were. I also noticed the quiet, as long as I wasn't coasting on that I9 rear hub I did love the 120 points of engagement. No 'slack' or clunk when pushing after coasting. I simply loved the ride. I do have a question. Is the stiffness more due to the carbon or the width. Obviously it is a function both, but I am considering building a set for my wife and thought of maybe going w/ the narrower rims to go more weight weenie, since she is on some Stan's Race wheels now. I am pretty sure the answer from the gurus is to get the wider rims as the weight penalty isn't worth worrying about, but just thinking.....
As jrat said, thanks to all on this forum for helping me decide on this wheelset!


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Andy13 said:


> ...I am considering building a set for my wife and thought of maybe going w/ the narrower rims to go more weight weenie...


Nope. Go wide...better tire profile/footprint. Most likely she won't notice the diff between narrow or wider's stiffness at her weight, but sure as hell would notice traction and tire roll on rim.


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

jrat2010 said:


> You still have to specify "New Process" if you want them done that way. I think they only have one mould for this, so that delays production by a few days.


When you say "new process" this implies the wider 23mm rim?


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

epiphreddy said:


> When you say "new process" this implies the wider 23mm rim?


The 23mm rim with the re-vamped carbon layup. Version 2.0 if you will.


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Here are the ones I ordered: Wider Carbon Mountain 29er Rims Clincher Tubeless Compatible | eBay

They are 23mm. How do you know if they have the re-vamped carbon layup as you mention?


----------



## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I dont think think that you can find out. The rims that everyone here has are the light-bicycle carbon rims. They are the ones that are making a second version of the wide 29er rim. Because you got yours from ebay, they probably did not come from light-bicycle and are probably made with a different manufacturing technique than the LB rims. They could have been made with the LB v2 process but I dont think that there is any way to tell.


----------



## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Sorry-
I just checked your link, and I saw they are light-bicycle rims. Facepalm. Sorry
I think that one way to tell would be to check the profile of the rims with pictures of the new process rims processed before. I think someone mentioned that the new and old rims have different profiles. You can also try contacting the seller and see if they know or kept any records.
Sorry that I didnt check the link before writing my first post.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

xc biker said:


> I dont think think that you can find out. The rims that everyone here has are the light-bicycle carbon rims. They are the ones that are making a second version of the wide 29er rim. Because you got yours from ebay, they probably did not come from light-bicycle and are probably made with a different manufacturing technique than the LB rims. They could have been made with the LB v2 process but I dont think that there is any way to tell.


Looks like light-bicycle is now selling on ebay. If your rims haven't shipped yet you can try contacting light-bicycle and let them know if you want old or new process.


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Hmm, well a little late. I have already built up one of them and was going to build up the other one today. I did buy from light bicycle off of ebay and received an email from Nancy. I am going to assume mine are the new process. Mine are definitely 23mm wide. Out of curiosity what are supposedly the differences between the old and new process? I'll say mine built up great and look fantastic. I'll post a pic once I get the rear built up along with the front.


----------



## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Check the Serial number on your rims. If it is "R02XXXXXXX" then it is new process. if "R29C xxxxx" it is old process.(Post 3343 in this thread)


----------



## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

Need some spoke help. After only a few rides one of the spokes broke right at the nipple. Actually the nipple and spoke are both snapped. How do I determine what length I need?

This was a prebuilt wheel from LB with the Novatec hub. 

Thanks. Pete


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

peterk123 said:


> Need some spoke help. After only a few rides one of the spokes broke right at the nipple. Actually the nipple and spoke are both snapped. How do I determine what length I need?
> 
> This was a prebuilt wheel from LB with the Novatec hub.
> 
> Thanks. Pete


What is your weight and riding style? We're you able to ride the wheel out?

I would detention the whole wheel replace spoke, and retention if it was JRA.


----------



## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

I weigh 165lbs. I rode out no problem. Actually I only realized it once I was home and cleaning the bike. Not sure about my riding style  I never broke a spoke in twenty years of riding. I am a bit disappointed. It shouldn't snap after a few rides. 

I have never replaced a spoke. Not that it is difficult, I just don;t understanding the sizing yet. Is a nipple a nipple? or will it be spoke specific? Also, I have not found a local source for pillar spokes. Could I use a sapim to replace the one broken spoke?


----------



## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Doubt you broke spoke and nipple. Probably broke nipple and half of it is onthe spoke and half is in the wheel..


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

yourdaguy said:


> Doubt you broke spoke and nipple. Probably broke nipple and half of it is onthe spoke and half is in the wheel..


What he said


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

pwu_1 said:


> Check the Serial number on your rims. If it is "R02XXXXXXX" then it is new process. if "R29C xxxxx" it is old process.(Post 3343 in this thread)


My S/N is MR020200066 so I guess I have the new process. So mine are stronger, better, lighter, prettier??? Anyone know what the difference is, other than "new process"? I guess I am glad I have the new process but what does it mean?


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

peterk123 said:


> Need some spoke help. After only a few rides one of the spokes broke right at the nipple. Actually the nipple and spoke are both snapped. How do I determine what length I need?
> 
> This was a prebuilt wheel from LB with the Novatec hub.
> 
> Thanks. Pete


I'd bet a dollar to a donut your spokes are too short, which puts undue stress on the nipples. When you replace the nipple, look at the others and if the spokes aren't at least even with the bottom of the slot in the nipples they are too short.


----------



## jrat2010 (Jun 14, 2010)

epiphreddy said:


> My S/N is MR020200066 so I guess I have the new process. So mine are stronger, better, lighter, prettier??? Anyone know what the difference is, other than "new process"? I guess I am glad I have the new process but what does it mean?


Here's a link to their blog post about the new process when they rolled it out for 650B. Its a fun read.

Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims


----------



## Bella Xu (May 2, 2013)

*Iplay 23.5mm clincher carbon 29er rims Tubeless compatiable 370+-10g*



jrat2010 said:


> Here's a link to their blog post about the new process when they rolled it out for 650B. Its a fun read.
> 
> Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims


Iplay 23.5mm cincher carbon 29er mtb rims, Tubeless compatiable, 370+-10g/piece

Items Feature:
Material: Toray carbon fiber 100%;
Holes: 18/20/24/28/32H;
Finish: 3k/UD Gloss/Matt available;
Warranty: 1 year.

Contacts:
Email: [email protected]
Skype: bella-xmiplay.

Items Pictures:


----------



## leugene (Jun 20, 2008)

19mm inner width? It's like latest carbon rims from Easton for ROAD bikes!


----------



## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

meltingfeather said:


> I'd bet a dollar to a donut your spokes are too short, which puts undue stress on the nipples. When you replace the nipple, look at the others and if the spokes aren't at least even with the bottom of the slot in the nipples they are too short.


Thanks. I will check it out. It seemed like a really odd place for a break. I have not taken the tire off yet but it looks like the head of the nipple is sheared off.


----------



## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

DeeZee said:


> What he said


Aahhh....That would make sense. Now I understand that comment about the spoke being too short as well. At a minimum, I will get a lesson on wheels and how to repair them. It is the only thing I really never had to touch on any of my bikes, other than the occasional truing.

Thanks guys. As always, appreciate the help. Pete


----------



## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

You guys were right on about the spoke being fine. The length of the spoke was good. I asked for LB to send me some extra spokes and nipples just in case I need some down the road. I should have thought of that when I ordered the wheels. 

In the meantime I picked up a couple of brass nipples so I can go out and ride. I was thinking it was going to be a a PIA because I have it setup tubeless. The gorilla tape method worked great; just peel the tape back (it was near the valve stem) make the fix and reset the tape. Good to go.


----------



## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

jrat2010 said:


> Here's a link to their blog post about the new process when they rolled it out for 650B. Its a fun read.
> 
> Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims


From Nancy's email reply to a question in the Customer Review section, it looks like all 29er wide rims are now made in new process:

2013-06-30
Light-Bicycle :

...
And now 29er rims are all with new process since last month, the old process is not sold again, only some local trade companies get old process from us to sell.
And we only sell new process rims for light-bicycle customers.
...

Thanks,
Nancy​
I had Nancy built a wheelset for me with Hope Evo hubs. They look really nice, but I will need to wait for small Ripley29 frame and X-Fusion Trace fork before I can start my build, and try them out.


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

peterk123 said:


> Thanks. I will check it out. It seemed like a really odd place for a break. I have not taken the tire off yet but it looks like the head of the nipple is sheared off.


So when are the spokes too long? I used the prowheelbuilder.com spoke calculator and a ERD of 603 and all of my spokes stick out about an 1/8" or so. When using the screw driver they bottomed out way before they were tight. They tightened up nicely with the spoke tool and seem fine and I am sure they are, but just curious.


----------



## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

epiphreddy said:


> So when are the spokes too long?


Well, if you run tubes and they poke holes in the tube...you mite be a *******. 
.
If you cant tightened the nip any more because you've run out of threads.....
.
.


----------



## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You might run into trouble down the road when you tighten up the wheel since the spokes are already sticking out. I think it was discussed a few pages back that the real ERD of the LB wheels seems to be about 601 or 600.


----------



## meerkite (Oct 26, 2011)

Hi,
Does anyone know light bicycles ebay user name?

Or can post a link to one if there listings?

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Ok, I did nice repair of my last year cracked rim. Complete bead rebuild on a 4 inch section. The crack was on bead section only, not in the box section. Enjoy!


----------



## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

What do you use to get the mold of the shape of the good section so you can form the missing section? Looks like some kind of plastic.


----------



## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Im looking for a set of 30mm with the Novatec DS711SB (15mm option) and with Super Spokes or DT Aerolite spokes. Has anyone been able to find a seller that provide anything else then the 474 or Pillar spokes? I know a few of them gives you the option to use DT Rev but not Super spokes or Aerolite.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

plupp said:


> Im looking for a set of 30mm with the Novatec DS711SB (15mm option) and with Super Spokes or DT Aerolite spokes. Has anyone been able to find a seller that provide anything else then the 474 or Pillar spokes? I know a few of them gives you the option to use DT Rev but not Super spokes or Aerolite.


They will do CX-Rays. I know I have read that.


----------



## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

jlian said:


> I had Nancy built a wheelset for me with Hope Evo hubs. They look really nice, but I will need to wait for small Ripley29 frame and X-Fusion Trace fork before I can start my build, and try them out.
> 
> View attachment 815545


So they used the Hope hubs in the build in China? That's what I've been looking for - I didn't want the Novatec hubs.

Did you get the full choice of colours and axle adaptors?

May I ask what you paid and how you ordered them?


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

meerkite said:


> Hi,
> Does anyone know light bicycles ebay user name?
> 
> Or can post a link to one if there listings?
> ...


Light-bicycle just like their website.


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> You might run into trouble down the road when you tighten up the wheel since the spokes are already sticking out. I think it was discussed a few pages back that the real ERD of the LB wheels seems to be about 601 or 600.


Why would I need to tighten them more? Will the spokes stretch as they break in?


----------



## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

You should re-check the tension after a few rides. It may be just fine.
.
.


----------



## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Not really stretch, but seat in and also if they were not totally stress relieved their might be some unwinding. The nipples will tend to seat in the rim and the spokes will seat where they go through the hubs. Generally, you will want to check them around 100 miles and usually there will be something that needs tightening even if they wheels were well built. If they were not well built, you might have lots of tightening.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

epiphreddy said:


> So when are the spokes too long? I used the prowheelbuilder.com spoke calculator and a ERD of 603 and all of my spokes stick out about an 1/8" or so. When using the screw driver they bottomed out way before they were tight. They tightened up nicely with the spoke tool and seem fine and I am sure they are, but just curious.


1st, the prowheelbuilder calculator is garbage.
They should fix it or take it down.
Ideally your spokes should end between the bottom of the slot and the end of the nipple.


----------



## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

I've just ordered a pair of the wider 29er rims. What length nipples should i use? 12 or 14mm?
Cheers!


----------



## Nels (May 18, 2004)

12mm is fine.


----------



## cloudbuster (Dec 14, 2011)

What is the weight for the tubeless ready 29 the page say tubeless compatible but don't specify if that the complete weight


----------



## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> What do you use to get the mold of the shape of the good section so you can form the missing section? Looks like some kind of plastic.


Fiber glass.


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> 1st, the prowheelbuilder calculator is garbage.
> They should fix it or take it down.
> Ideally your spokes should end between the bottom of the slot and the end of the nipple.


That is the type answer I wanted to hear. I noticed when calculating using it, that it rounded up and down. It seems good because it does a lot of things for you, but it did worry me somewhat. I am sure my wheels will be fine, but each spoke has extra sticking out which will serve no purpose other an a little bit more rotating weight.


----------



## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

LB has a page now on all hub options:
the more detail about hubs ( MTB hub and road hub ) Light-Bicycle

I ordered my wheels right before they decided to offer Hope hubs and asked Nancy for a custom build with my own hubs. I was traveling to China, so bought a set of Hope hubs in US and shipped to Nancy after I got there. For the trouble I took, I saved about us$20 compared to LB's price with Hope hubs. I paid us$550 including shipping, PayPal fees and some extra spokes/nibbles.

BTW total weight is 1580g. Front is 725g. Also Nancy has been really helpful and replied quickly to my questions as this is my first time building a bike myself and it will be my first 29er.

Cheers, Jeff


----------



## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> May I ask what you paid and how you ordered them?


BigWheel,

For a special build with Hope hubs, your best option is to contact LB at [email protected]. Most likely Nancy will reply.


----------



## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

Tossing my comments in before riding them tomorrow :-D

Got some of the new-process all mountain wide rims from Light Bicycle last month...had my LBS replace my Crest rims on King hubs with them and just got them back today. The shop had built up several of the older ones before and said these were very true and very straight, unlike some previous examples.

My other rims are Crest, Arch and Enve (pre-UST); these are by far the easiest tubeless set up I've had so far and that's with Racing Ralphs that have been finicky in the past. Using two strips of wide Stan's tape and a little help from a compressor I had both tires mounted and sealed in under fifteen minutes. Both stayed on the bead hook when I took out the core to fill them with sealant, so I think the UST shape is holding pretty well.

My Enve rims take two or three layers of tape plus the Bontrager strips; they're already heavier than the Crest or Chinese rims and up there with the Crests when I'm done. Love the way the Enve's ride especially on a hard tail though; I'm hoping tomorrow is a cross between the road bike spin of the Crests plus the stiff, damped ride of the Enve's :-D


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

The ENVE "valley" is deep and the bead is pronounced which makes them harder to set up tubeless but you get a really positive pop when the bead goes on, the "valley" on the LB rims is very shallow, the bead rib is non existent and can be set up easily with a track pump but the pop is weak and if you push the bead/tyre side at low pressures there's an air loss.


----------



## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

There are 2 designs of ENVE the old and the new. The old were very hard to keep tires in tubeless requiring much taping, etc. the new are designed to run tubeless if desired. Pretty much the rims made in the last year are the new design.


----------



## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

jlian said:


> BigWheel,
> 
> For a special build with Hope hubs, your best option is to contact LB at [email protected]. Most likely Nancy will reply.


Has anyone else bought the rims built onto Hope Pro2 Evo hubs???


----------



## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

ozzybmx said:


> The ENVE "valley" is deep and the bead is pronounced which makes them harder to set up tubeless but you get a really positive pop when the bead goes on, the "valley" on the LB rims is very shallow, the bead rib is non existent and can be set up easily with a track pump but the pop is weak and if you push the bead/tyre side at low pressures there's an air loss.


Mine are pre-UST, and the pop isn't that confident despite the Bontrager strips. Part of that is the XC rims are narrow, so I don't think the Bontrager strips really get the chance to make their full outer channels for the bead.

Have no idea what the UST Enve rims are like; I've heard they're better but I assume that's what you're talking about.

These are way, way better. I run as low pressure as I can get away with; I pushed on it and they won't burp. At zero psi for sealant it didn't come off the bead hook, which is more than I can say for my Enve's.

Anyway, rode them today and they're exactly what I was hoping for. A little more vertically compliant than the Enve's but super stiff and damped, plus wider. Transformed my Ti hardtail, I'm really impressed and can't wait to try this on my Tallboy...


----------



## Taranis (Dec 30, 2009)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Has anyone else bought the rims built onto Hope Pro2 Evo hubs???


Just purchased a set. Have not arrived yet.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Taranis said:


> Just purchased a set. Have not arrived yet.


I looked at their website a while back.


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Thus far I have nothing but great things to say about the rims. Lightweight and right on the money as to advertised weight. Me and a friend bought 2 sets and the weights were all within about 10 grams, around 388 to 398 grams. They build up VERY true and tight. I used Stans tape only and tubeless valve stems. They pump up easily with an air compressor, pop into place nicely. They ride great and have transformed my bike along with the XX1 group. My bike is one LB lighter now which is very noticeable.
The rims are stiffer than the notubes Arches they replaced, they are lighter, and wider also. Well worth the money. I will be buying another set to swap out on another set of wheels that I have.


----------



## Taranis (Dec 30, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> I looked at their website a while back.


rft:

I forgot to quote the person I was answering...


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Well, I rode through a tight, wet, small rock, stream ditch and came out with a puncture. I was following a strong local rider on a foreign trail and thought the worse; crushed the sidewall. 

Turns out, it was only a puncture. Threw a canister of air in and it deflated quick. Local rider said "follow me, we'll take the shortcut back to the lot". The shortcut turned into a mile of single track and a mile of road. The tire was empty by the time we hit the road and I was riding the rim downhill at 15+mph. 

Tire stayed seated and performed. Dead flat. 

Thanks LB and Bontrager rim strips.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Heya, did you all see some cheaper carbon rims showing up on fleabay? 

I don't think I would throw down any cash for a carbon rim other than Light-Bicycle AM 29er rims, but it's nice to see some more competition in this field. Maybe it will bring the LB prices down a bit...

Well, heck... they are pretty dang cheap as it is, for as good as they are. I'm not complaining.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Heya, did you all see some cheaper carbon rims showing up on fleabay?
> 
> I don't think I would throw down any cash for a carbon rim other than Light-Bicycle AM 29er rims, but it's nice to see some more competition in this field. Maybe it will bring the LB prices down a bit...
> 
> Well, heck... they are pretty dang cheap as it is, for as good as they are. I'm not complaining.


No link? Or, how's about a seller or brand so at least we can go check out what specific "cheap carbon rims" you're talking about?

---your killing me Smalls!


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## michael1 (Nov 17, 2011)

Does anyone know if the new Factor series of hubs by Novatec will be an option for LB wheel builds when they are released? I saw them here and with 90 or 96 POE they might be a good option if it didn't raise the overall price too much.

Making a Novatec Hub - Pinkbike

On another note, when will U.S. distribution/warranty be available?

Edit: Does anyone think the hookless rim design could help solve the problem of rims cracking from hitting rocks when running at low pressure?


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

michael1 said:


> Does anyone know if the new Factor series of hubs by Novatec will be an option for LB wheel builds when they are released? I saw them here and with 90 or 96 POE they might be a good option if it didn't raise the overall price too much.
> 
> Making a Novatec Hub - Pinkbike
> 
> ...


In the time you posted here you could have emailed light-bicycle and asked them directly.


----------



## michael1 (Nov 17, 2011)

^I did that as well.

Also, I don't have the email of the person who was posting a few months ago about starting a U.S. distribution center, though I suppose I could send him a PM since I don't know if he still follows this thread.


----------



## HouseNotes (Aug 18, 2012)

michael1 said:


> ^I did that as well.
> 
> Also, I don't have the email of the person who was posting a few months ago about starting a U.S. distribution center, though I suppose I could send him a PM since I don't know if he still follows this thread.


Let us know what Nancy says about this. I would be interested in a set with the higher Poe hubs. Thanks


----------



## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

I just wanted to give some good rep to Nancy at Light Bicycle. I broke a nipple and reached out to her for some extras, including some spokes, just in case I have future problems. She was great. I also had a bracket issue with a seatpost. Originally, I did not hear back but we circled around again when talking about the spokes. She was very helpful again and is sending me the part that broke. 

I will be ordering a set of road wheels before long from them. 

Also, FWIW, the mountain wheels seem to be holding up quite well. I have them on a hardtail and I'm not exactly gentle with them. They appear to take the hits quite well. I only have about 120miles on them but some of those miles were over bony new england rock  Pete


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

>Does anyone know if the new Factor series of hubs by Novatec will be an option for LB wheel builds when they are released?

Well hopefully they will be a better design than the 882 hub which again (see my previous posts) completely failed on me in the backcountry due to a total flaw in its design.


----------



## michael1 (Nov 17, 2011)

What is the design flaw? Do you have pics? Is the flaw only with the 882 or is it in the other commonly specced hub as well?


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

Search my old posts in this thread for more details, but basic situation was that the freehub mechanism is only press fit into the hub body with no mechanical locking ie no pins. I looked up the drawings (might be posted) and it was clear there was nothing other than a press fit holding it. So eventually mine just started turning in the hub when pedalling, like a clutch slipping. I have no idea if any of their other hubs new or old are designed this way. I got about half a season out of it when it failed with no warning and cut short a 6 hour ride, thankfully we were on the climb and I was mostly able to coast out. I weigh 200 lbs and ride a 20/36 gear (on a 29) and do a lot of climbing, but seriously doubt I was putting more torque through it than any other large individual or powerful cyclist. It seems like tall gear sprinting would put more load into it than a climbing gear. Either way it doesn't matter, its a time bomb waiting to happen. If I didn't post the drawing, go to Novatec's site and look it up, they have the pdf posted. Then check out the hub you want to buy and see if it is the same design. I sent them a short email of course but didnt' hear anything (wasn't looking for compensation, just informing them). I've been running a Hope II since then with no problems.


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

For those with the wide AM rims, what is a better option for going tubeless, the Bontrager Rhythm Strips or just stans yellow tape? If Stans would the 25mm tape be better?


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

Hauffy said:


> For those with the wide AM rims, what is a better option for going tubeless, the Bontrager Rhythm Strips or just stans yellow tape? If Stans would the 25mm tape be better?


I can't say enough about using gorilla tape. Cheap, super strong and I have not had a problem with any of the wheelsets I have done. Been doing it this way for a few years now. I think it cost me three bucks to do the conversion.


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

Ah, i forgot about Gorilla tape. I imagine it would leave a very sticky residue. Is this ever an issue?


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

I have not had any problems. Stuff is great. I recently broke a nipple. Peeled the tape back, made the fixed and was able to reuse the tape. Of course, I could have put a new layer on as well, for about twenty cents


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

Hauffy said:


> For those with the wide AM rims, what is a better option for going tubeless, the Bontrager Rhythm Strips or just stans yellow tape? If Stans would the 25mm tape be better?


People have success with both methods, however the rhythm strips seem to be more secure out of the box. I have rhythm strips on mine, their weight barely even registered on a .1g precision scale. For me the added security of the bontrager rim strips was a no brainer.

I've been racing XC this entire season on the setup with great luck. This past weekend I had a race where after the fact I noticed the front tire had lost a good amount of air before stans sealed it, fortunately the tire never even got close to blowing off the rim and I was able to finish the race without any issues.


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## MondoRides (Feb 18, 2004)

peterk123 said:


> I have not had any problems. Stuff is great. I recently broke a nipple. Peeled the tape back, made the fixed and was able to reuse the tape. Of course, I could have put a new layer on as well, for about twenty cents


+1 on the Gorilla tape. Comes in a 1" width which was perfect for the wider rims. Have used this on 2 different wheelsets now with no issues either.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I used Stans Yellow Tape since I had it and it works fine too. Blows up as easily as a Notubes rim. I used the same width recommended for the Arch Ex rims, whichever width that is. Supposed to be a little lighter than the Bonty strips and Gorilla tape too. Maybe not enough to matter, but psychologically.....maybe so.


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks guys! I'll have to see what's available locally(Aus). Not sure where i'd get the Rhythm strips over here, even the Yellow tape seems hard to find :/


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## midbunchlurker (Mar 18, 2005)

Hauffy said:


> Thanks guys! I'll have to see what's available locally(Aus). Not sure where i'd get the Rhythm strips over here, even the Yellow tape seems hard to find :/


I've been using the American Classic strips. I find their valves are better than Stan's.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

Hauffy said:


> Ah, i forgot about Gorilla tape. I imagine it would leave a very sticky residue. Is this ever an issue?


Many have had good results but in my case, the answer depends on whether you use a standard width or try to economize and cut custom width strips using a wider roll of Gorilla tape. I got a 1" roll of Gorilla Tape for one set of wheels and thought I would be clever and cut custom width tape from a 2" wide roll. While this initially worked, lack of exactness on my part resulted in inconsistent width and in some places I observed the tape has slipped leaving a residue or adheres to the bead of the tire pulling off thin strands also leaving residue when you change tires. Also think the AmClass valve stems are a better choice Stans.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Stans wheels use yellow tape. LB wheels are way more secure with Bontragger rim strip.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Broke my rear. Seems like a factory defect. Im gonna warranty it with a stronger rear.

Its on a AMHT, 140mm fork and dropper post. I ride it really hard.

Here are some pics.
The rim is cracking in one spot, and 2 nipples are looking like they want to pull through. This appeared after a hard day at Dupont, NC.























For the record, I have been riding this broken rim for about a month with no issues.


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## jmontroy (Apr 21, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> Stans wheels use yellow tape. LB wheels are way more secure with Bontragger rim strip.


+1 for the Bonty Strips. Used them on the LB rims, I had used Gorilla in the past, and the bead locks in like nothing else I've seen.


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## peterque (Sep 27, 2012)

leugene said:


> 19mm inner width? It's like latest carbon rims from Easton for ROAD bikes!


Yes, that is 19mm width, similar to XC rims, can be assembled with both wide and narrow tires. Now the rims are tubeless ready.

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520
Website: Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co., Ltd. - Seat Post,Cartridge Headset


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

:ihih: Well if that doesn't qualify as proper spam...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Ouanlux said:


> I am sorry for this. If you want to buy new one, maybe you can find the suited at Nextie Bike-Chinese carbon fiber,MTB rims,road bike wheels,tri spoke wheels,BMX,frames,disc wheel BTW, ask Maxwell, he will make it cheaper for you. ^_^


F**k off, spammer

Reported.

:thumbsup:


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## quiggs1974 (Nov 22, 2007)

Hauffy said:


> Thanks guys! I'll have to see what's available locally(Aus). Not sure where i'd get the Rhythm strips over here, even the Yellow tape seems hard to find :/


If you are looking for Gorilla tape, in Victoria (Australia) Masters home hardware sell it in the painting section.

quiggs


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Anybody know of any wheel builders who will build with these? Maybe stock them occasionally?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Anybody know of any wheel builders who will build with these? Maybe stock them occasionally?


Mikesee has in the past... not sure about currently.
lacemine29.com


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Spicer Cycles. spicercycles.com


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Spicer Cycles. spicercycles.com


All I see is track forks & frames.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

He builds frames and is kind of famous in the track bike world. He even has his own powdercoating oven. He has also built over 1000 wheels in his career. He also does custom work such a belt drive bikes, etc.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> He has also built over 1000 wheels in his career.


Interesting... wouldn't know it from his website.
Did he used to build segmented Ti forks that failed catastrophically?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Ouanlux said:


> T_T so undeserved, this message just for replied a member, and I don't know why it became independent! Come on~~~ am I infamous? It's unfair.


I don't know what this means, but if you don't want to be perceived as spamming then maybe stop posting the same s**t multiple times with links to your website where you sell stuff.


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## NETTA170 (Sep 20, 2010)

Is there any correlation between spoke tension to wheel stiffness ??
I wonder !

Wheel Stiffness Test

Could I reduce tension on my carbon rims and let the material do the rest ?


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Sheepo5669 said:


> Broke my rear. Seems like a factory defect. Im gonna warranty it with a stronger rear.
> 
> Its on a AMHT, 140mm fork and dropper post. I ride it really hard.
> 
> ...


What tension did you build your wheels to? I have mine a little tighter (around 22 or less on the Parktool tensionometer) than a Stans rim, and am wondering if that is too tight maybe??? I wonder is these rims are not up to all mountain hard riding?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

NETTA170 said:


> Is there any correlation between spoke tension to wheel stiffness ??


No



NETTA170 said:


> Could I reduce tension on my carbon rims and let the material do the rest ?


The rest of what?
No is the answer in any case.


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## eddieman (Nov 20, 2006)

wrong place


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## eddieman (Nov 20, 2006)

Has anyone some experience with 29er carbon rims of that manufacturer: Xiamen Carbon Trade Co., Ltd. - Carbon Rim,Carbon Frame ?

They have some 29er rims with similar dimensions that the xc rim of light-bicycles, but at a lower weight of 350g. Even the price is lower: 125$/pcs

Would be glad if anyone can compare this rims with the ones of light-bicycles


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

eddieman said:


> Has anyone some experience with 29er carbon rims of that manufacturer: Xiamen Carbon Trade Co., Ltd. - Carbon Rim,Carbon Frame ?
> 
> They have some 29er rims with similar dimensions that the xc rim of light-bicycles, but at a lower weight of 350g. Even the price is lower: 125$/pcs
> 
> Would be glad if anyone can compare this rims with the ones of light-bicycles


It is likely hard to find anyone reading this forum being a guinea pig trying out unknown cheap rims from China. Also interesting to note its company proflile gives all the clues of being a trading company (just sourcing from other manufactures), and in fact it does state the type of its business as Trading Company.

This is likely the place LB is dumping all old process wide 29er rims to.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

jlian said:


> It is likely hard to find anyone reading this forum being a guinea pig trying out unknown cheap rims from China.


This thread is full of people who tried unknown cheap rims from China. :skep:


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> This thread is full of people who tried unknown cheap rims from China. :skep:


That is why he said it.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

muzzanic said:


> That is why he said it.


I get jokes.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

jlian said:


> It is likely hard to find anyone reading this forum being a guinea pig trying out unknown cheap rims from China. Also interesting to note its company proflile gives all the clues of being a trading company (just sourcing from other manufactures), and in fact it does state the type of its business as Trading Company.
> 
> This is likely the place LB is dumping all old process wide 29er rims to.


Well I hate to burst your bubble...but LB is NOt a manufacturer, they are listed as a Trading Company as well. I had contacted them and was negotiating with them to be their US Distributor. I actually had a friend of a friend go and check them out before I flew out there:

1. The address on their website does NOT exist.
2. Look at the shipping label they sent and do a Google earth search, it will point to an apartment building.
3. While setting up for a shipment of 4 "D Containers" ( 200 pairs of rims) , they kept asking questions that did not make any sense...that was when I realized they had never shipped in large quantities and do not have an export licence.
4. I have photos of where the rims are made. I told them the deal could not go forward unless I saw proof of their operation. 
5. On another thread in the Road Bike Forum, someone says that all carbon fiber sporting goods shipments are being investigated by US Customs for under invoicing. The persons that will be held responsible are the IMPORTERS...even if the shipper ( exporter) underinvoiced....

Ordering a set of rims pose only a loss of $400, I could not risk losing $50,000 on this deal. If anyopne I sold to, crashed and sued....it would be my As_ on the line because LB would be no where to be found......


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Next build will be awesome! 220g rear with dt internals!(scale not accurate) Revo spokes for the rear on a sub 385g rim! (Currently in mail)


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

I am building a pair of wheels for a gravel grinder road bike. I believe the lighter weight cross country rims will be plenty strong enough for this application. Does anyone have any comments to the contrary? Would you recommend internal or external nipple drilling for this application? Would you recommend a specific finish? I was thinking of a UD matte finish. Thanks.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

coyotegulch said:


> I am building a pair of wheels for a gravel grinder road bike. I believe the lighter weight cross country rims will be plenty strong enough for this application. Does anyone have any comments to the contrary? Would you recommend internal or external nipple drilling for this application? Would you recommend a specific finish? I was thinking of a UD matte finish. Thanks.


The wider rims would give your tire a better footprint, I believe it would roll faster as a bonus, it would definitely improve the ride quality.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

YaMon said:


> Well I hate to burst your bubble...but LB is NOt a manufacturer, they are listed as a Trading Company as well. I had contacted them and was negotiating...


I was intrigued by your initial posts about distributing LB rims and making a business out of it. Now, you have turned to bashing LB with what motive?

LB has done a good job building their brand and delivering a product that delivers extreme value. Why would they cut you a deal and let you piggy back off their brand? They wouldn't, and now you are mad. Maybe you have found the manufacturer, struck a deal, and are getting ready to launch your brand?

Good luck!


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> I was intrigued by your initial posts about distributing LB rims and making a business out of it. Now, you have turned to bashing LB with what motive?
> 
> LB has done a good job building their brand and delivering a product that delivers extreme value. Why would they cut you a deal and let you piggy back off their brand? They wouldn't, and now you are mad. Maybe you have found the manufacturer, struck a deal, and are getting ready to launch your brand?
> 
> Good luck!


I dont have a problem with their product.....I was the one that walked away from the deal. These Chinese Companies are putting everyone at risk by under invoicing...that is the main problem that I have. It is incumbent on me to do the proper due diligence before placing a large order. When information that is posted is incorrect and false, it shows where their integrity lies.....you can do anything you want, but you should be aware of the risks first.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Raced with a guy last night that is on his 6th warranty replacement set of Crank Bros carbon wheels...........those baby's retail for $2,200!

Maybe explains why they had to move to a bigger warranty department 

+++ CrankBrothers - Service + Upgrade Center +++

For all the doubters........these LB rims are worth the $$$


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

YaMon said:


> I dont have a problem with their product.....I was the one that walked away from the deal. These Chinese Companies are putting everyone at risk by under invoicing...that is the main problem that I have. It is incumbent on me to do the proper due diligence before placing a large order. When information that is posted is incorrect and false, it shows where their integrity lies.....you can do anything you want, but you should be aware of the risks first.


Are These Chinese Companies you refer to dumb enough to insist under invoicing you request not to do so for your order? My take is that most customers of them, especially for small item orders on ebay don't really care or mind.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

YaMon said:


> I dont have a problem with their product... but you should be aware of the risks first.


If you are trying to differentiate your up and coming brand:
1. Avoid FUD, no one cares about tariffs and customs, because no one has complained about it in this forum (save this for later in your growth cycle, if you make it there)
2. You should ignore the competition (incumbent) and focus solely on your product and what makes it better.
3. Consider custom decals, custom builds with detailed pictures, stories and weights (see Russian Ti guy)
4. Make it about the experience, not the product. Build your rep (see lacemine29)
5. You could do five builds with different spokes and tensions, run some different tires and bikes and tell stories about how they perform for their desired terrain.
6. Destroy a few rims in these tests and advise your customer base on how to avoid the dreaded sidewall crush.
7. Send me a check for 5% of total revenue (not profits) TYVL.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> If you are trying to differentiate your up and coming brand:
> 1. Avoid FUD, no one cares about tariffs and customs, because no one has complained about it in this forum (save this for later in your growth cycle, if you make it there)
> 2. You should ignore the competition (incumbent) and focus solely on your product and what makes it better.
> 3. Consider custom decals, custom builds with detailed pictures, stories and weights (see Russian Ti guy)
> ...


6 out of 7...not bad. If you only knew what I uncovered...but I will take your advise and bury it ...for now.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Real consultants get the money up front.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Real consultants get the money up front.


Not municipal bond counsel, and they make the BIG money.
In the municipal infrastructure business this is not true at all.


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## Dijck (Nov 14, 2005)

Hi everybody, 

I've red the whole thread about these rims yet still I'm a bit hesitant to pull a trigger on these. I'm pretty light rider (70kg geared up) but as a enduro racer, I tend to ride as hard(fast) as possible (doing drops, gaps, rockgardens etc.) I'm considering buying a 26' wider and beefed up(around 400g) rims and they are supposed to replace DT 500EX rims(already dented). Planning to lace them with dt 240s hubs and revolution spokes. What would you say? Should I go for it? Thanks!


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## serious1 (Jan 11, 2013)

I've got a set of roval control 29 wheels that im thinking about swapping rims. would I be able to reuse my spokes? the wheelset is in this link: Specialized Bicycle Components


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

serious1 said:


> I've got a set of roval control 29 wheels that im thinking about swapping rims. would I be able to reuse my spokes? the wheelset is in this link: Specialized Bicycle Components


You need to determine what the ERD is. You will need new nipples at the very least, spokes if the ERD is too much different.

How to measure hub and rim dimensions


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Dirty $anchez said:


> You need to determine what the ERD is. You will need new nipples at the very least, spokes if the ERD is too much different.
> 
> How to measure hub and rim dimensions


What is wrong with re-using nipples?


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Dijck said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I've red the whole thread about these rims yet still I'm a bit hesitant to pull a trigger on these. I'm pretty light rider (70kg geared up) but as a enduro racer, I tend to ride as hard(fast) as possible (doing drops, gaps, rockgardens etc.) I'm considering buying a 26' wider and beefed up(around 400g) rims and they are supposed to replace DT 500EX rims(already dented). Planning to lace them with dt 240s hubs and revolution spokes. What would you say? Should I go for it? Thanks!


I'm about your weight. I can go fast on XC races. I use this rim as race wheels and everyday wheels for XC. I have a background in DH. If you had dented rims, you will have cracked carbon rims...

Honestly, if you have carbon rim, you will be slower on enduro races. Particularly on rocks garden. Just because you will thinking to avoid craking a rim...

Do you think a sub 1480g wheelset is suitable for enduro? Sure they will be stiff, wide, light, but long lasting? Not sure...


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## Ragz22 (Mar 10, 2013)

Dijck said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I've red the whole thread about these rims yet still I'm a bit hesitant to pull a trigger on these. I'm pretty light rider (70kg geared up) but as a enduro racer, I tend to ride as hard(fast) as possible (doing drops, gaps, rockgardens etc.) I'm considering buying a 26' wider and beefed up(around 400g) rims and they are supposed to replace DT 500EX rims(already dented). Planning to lace them with dt 240s hubs and revolution spokes. What would you say? Should I go for it? Thanks!


Go for it. I got the 26" wider at 430g. They are great, ride them them thru rock gardens etc. Stacked it off a jump 2 weeks ago, the front wheel needed trueing, but no cracks. Both rims have some little stone chips (that just takes the shine off them)

I'm about 115kg with gear. Buy 2 pair, they are cheap enough


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

epiphreddy said:


> What is wrong with re-using nipples?


It is ok to reuse brass nipples, but aluminum nipples are the weakest link in the chain and since aluminum stress cracks over time, and the labor to fix wheels costs more than aluminum nipples, it is a very poor return on investment to reuse alloy nipples.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

epiphreddy said:


> What is wrong with re-using nipples?


I rebuilt my set of Roval's and reused the old nips on one of them. I cleaned all the spoke threads well and added a little spoke prep. That, combined with whatever was left over inside the nips (old spoke prep, grime that I didn't manage to get out) made it a PITA to get it up to tension - I ended up rounding off a few and had to replace them anyway. I may have been better off not using the spoke prep, since the old nips already had some stuck in the threads. I decided to use new nips on wheel #2 and it was a lot easier to build, easy to bring up to tension and true. I was so much happier with the result, I ended up tearing wheel #1 back down and replacing all the old nips that I reused anyway. This was the first set of wheels I ever built though, an experienced builder may have known how to avoid any issues. Personally, as an amateur builder, I like things to go as smoothly as possible so I probably wouldn't try reusing nips again, but YMMV!


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

Dijck said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I've red the whole thread about these rims yet still I'm a bit hesitant to pull a trigger on these. I'm pretty light rider (70kg geared up) but as a enduro racer, I tend to ride as hard(fast) as possible (doing drops, gaps, rockgardens etc.) I'm considering buying a 26' wider and beefed up(around 400g) rims and they are supposed to replace DT 500EX rims(already dented). Planning to lace them with dt 240s hubs and revolution spokes. What would you say? Should I go for it? Thanks!


I have been running 27.5 LB rims for 6 months now on my Carbine w/ DT 240 hubs and DT Comp spokes. I have ridden fire roads, hacked out trails, rock gardens, even gnarly downhills and ski resort bike parks. I jump them without hesitation. I have bottomed my suspension and I weight 190 w/out gear. My rims are as true as the day I got them. Paint chips? Sure. But I don't run ultra low psi. I run 28 r/25 f. I would not hesitate to buy another set when these are toast. GO FOR IT!


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

MntnMan said:


> I have been running 27.5 LB rims for 6 months now on my Carbine w/ DT 240 hubs and DT Comp spokes. I have ridden fire roads, hacked out trails, rock gardens, even gnarly downhills and ski resort bike parks. I jump them without hesitation. I have bottomed my suspension and I weight 190 w/out gear. My rims are as true as the day I got them. Paint chips? Sure. But I don't run ultra low psi. I run 28 r/25 f. I would not hesitate to buy another set when these are toast. GO FOR IT!


Exactly what he said. Except I am 230 with gear. After riding them hard for a year. I just had to slightly tighten one spoke on the rear wheel. Next to my KS 150 LEV these wheels are the best investment I have made. Or perhaps. It's the other way around. Either way. Get em and be amazed.


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## thermiteplasma (Mar 17, 2011)

Ckineaoey tlzZfh it I


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## jmontroy (Apr 21, 2011)

New set update: Took them to Copper Mountain for their 2nd ride. New process wide 29s with extra material. My buddy rented a Glory, I'm riding a Transition Covert 29. Copper has pretty limited trails off the lift so we decided to take a few bomber runs straight down the ski trails. I'm managed to just keep up with him through rock strewn meadows and culverts. Wheels aren't even out of true. A couple of scratches but that's it. I'm 215lb (just rider) running them on King Hubs with Minion front and rear. 24 and 28 PSI, respectively.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> It is ok to reuse brass nipples, but aluminum nipples are the weakest link in the chain and since aluminum stress cracks over time, and the labor to fix wheels costs more than aluminum nipples, it is a very poor return on investment to reuse alloy nipples.


FWIW, I re-used my front nipples with the exception of one or two. I used Permatex anti sieze before and during the re-build. I just taped the China Carbon rim to the notubes rim and swapped everything over. So far so good with a few weeks of riding on them. I did a new rear wheel with new hub, new spokes, and re-used about 1/2 of the nipples since I did not have enough new blue nipples. So far so good. These wheels built up much better than any notubes rim I have ever built. I have built about 6 wheelsets now. Really not that hard and certainly not as hard as some people will lead you to believe, particularly some bike shop "dudes". When I first rolled down my driveway there was a few high pitched pops and pings but after than no noise/issues whatsoever and solid as a rock and straight and true!!!!


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## Dijck (Nov 14, 2005)

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'm going for it( will post the photo of the wheels & mojo HDR ) One last question, which spokes do you recommend with these rims? Currently I'm running DT aerolites and they are breaking from time to time.. Have a nice rest of the weekend and ride it ! Cheers!


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## wheelcool (May 23, 2008)

well i cracked my rear rim the other day. it was in a rocky section and i must of hit a rock just right. up till that point, the rims had been bullet proof. im 6'6, about 210 and ride a hardtail and was running on a new tire at 30 psi. i did get the wider stronger version for some additional protection which im sure helped some but all stuff can break at some point.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Thinking about replacing my front wheel (stock Bontrager Duster on 2010 GF X-Cal). Has anyone ordered a front only? Nancy quoted me $290 for a front with their standard spokes & hub, which is over half the price of a pair - I thought it would be lower???

I'd also prefer a Hope Pro 2 Evo for the hub for convertibility and to match my rear hub. The current Wiggle Hope Hoop deal ($140 for a front) had me thinking of either Flow Ex or Arch Ex, but am tempted by these carbon rims for similar width to the Flow at lower weight than the Arch.

So I'm considering ordering a Hope Hoop and a carbon rim, then relacing the Hope to the LB rim and selling the Stan's rim. Thinking I might be able to reuse the spokes if the ERD is close enough (LB is supposedly 602 or 603; Flow is 601; Arch is 606).

So what do you think - is this crazy? This seems like the cheapest way to get the rim/hub combo I want ($140 for Hope Hoop + ~$200 for LB rim shipped + ~$35 for wheel build -$75 for resold Stan's rim = ~$300).

Also, one other wrinkle: Nancy said they should start making the "hookless" 29er rims in 2 months. I may wait for these to come out.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

So you will disassemble the rim that was built up and then advertise it how in order to get close to retail? Yes, this is crazy. I don't see you getting $75 for a built up, in affect USED rim. If selling on ebay you can plan on about 15% of the sale going to shipping and fees also, that is if you can get the rim sold.
Why don't you see about purchasing the Hope hub somewhere, shipping it to light-bicycle as some others have done and have them build the wheel for you?

What are hookless rims?


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

I haven't seen this asked here before: has anyone used these rims (29") as a cyclocross rim? On-One Dirty Disco for example? 

If so, what size of tire will it take? Could I put a standard 700X25 or 700X28 road tire?

Thanks

Johnnydrz


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

OK - maybe I was too optimistic on the resale of the Stan's rim. I certainly had no intentions of deceiving anyone as to its condition. Hadn't thought of sending hubs to LB - I'll have to consider that.

The other option of going with the Hope Hoop is to keep the Stan's rim as a backup/insurance policy if something goes wrong with the LB rim.

Hookless rims: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/demand-chinese-carbon-no-bead-hook-rims-857874.html

2013 Specialized Roval Control 29 Carbon Wheels for $1200 | Mountain Bike Review


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

I race them cross, they do great. The narrow xc rims, that is, not the wider ones. I don't think you can run road tires on them though, too much pressure. I think the max psi is 60, if i recall.


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## trevorrr (Feb 9, 2011)

I thought I would add my experience.

I ordered a set of new process wider 29 rims, which I built up with DT Revs, brass nipples, and Hope Pro II Evo hubs. Set up tubeless with Nobby Nick / Racing Ralph tires. I used one layer of Stan's tape and sealant - they popped onto the rim in about 2 seconds with my air compressor through the removable valve core. I got them done the day before leaving on a week of riding in the BC interior, culminating in the Squamish Gear Jammer race (quite rocky and technical). I did get a few scratches from rocks, but the wheels are still true and holding pressure perfectly. I'm only 137 lbs, ride XC, and am not hard on equipment. 

My friend got a factory built set with extra material, and the Novatech hubs, is 180lbs and hard on equipment, and his are still in good shape too after doing the same race.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

TedS123 said:


> OK - maybe I was too optimistic on the resale of the Stan's rim. I certainly had no intentions of deceiving anyone as to its condition. Hadn't thought of sending hubs to LB - I'll have to consider that.
> 
> The other option of going with the Hope Hoop is to keep the Stan's rim as a backup/insurance policy if something goes wrong with the LB rim.
> 
> ...


You could also go to "light-bicycle.com" and ask them directly. Seems like I saw somewhere (I can't remember where) that you can purchase a set of Hope Evo 2 hubs and their rims with your choice of spokes directly from them.
And I think your idea of keep an extra rim around is a good one. You would probably net maybe $40 to $50 anyways which would not be enough to not have a backup.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

They sell the front wheel with a hope hub for 70 more than the standard build. I would buy the rim, hope pro hub for about 80 from chain reaction and sapim double butted spokes from Dan's comp for .50 each

I would build the wheel myself. Cost for wheel building Is 50 here, more if you didn't buy the parts from the lbs

Also I would prob buy two rims and convert my rear too. Would give away the old rims as you will never use them as spare s after using carbon

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Hard to argue any of that. The carbon rims are really nice for sure. I too would build the wheels and have. It is not rocket science, just takes time, patience, and a little common sense. And as far as swapping goes, all you need to do is put the new rim next to the old wheel (tape it next to it) and swap each nipple/spoke over one by one and re-true. It is that easy. Of course if you don't know how to true (not hard to learn) then it will take a while to learn/figure out.
Probably will never need (hopefully) the spare but nice to have in case a catastrophe occurs since it takes 3 to 4 weeks to get the LB rims.


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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

*Longterm report until the end*

I can now give a little longterm report about this carbon rims/wheelset.

I bought a complete wheelset of _all mountain 29er carbon mtb wheels clincher tubeless wheel ready_ about a year ago.

The spokes where Pillar and the hubs where Novatec.

After a short riding time it was found that the wheelset is poorly laced. Spokes came loose and some broke.

Anyway I would not select Pillar spokes anymore. I would choose DT or Sapim.

During all this time I never had a carefree wheelset. Especially the rear wheel kept making problems with spokes and spoke tension.

But I must say, the Novatec hubs are superb.

The large end came last week when the rear wheel broke on a downhill. The broken rim also destroyed my rear derailleur. Holy smoke....

This was not my first rim failure, but the first one I had to walk for the rest of the day. Alloy rims do not break like this and most of the time you are able to roll on...

Bottomline:

This wheelset was cheap :thumbsup:

For this price you get a lightweight but not carefree wheelset with in my case limited lifetime :madman:

These are my personal experiences. Everyone has to draw their own conclusion from.


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## midbunchlurker (Mar 18, 2005)

maettu said:


> I can now give a little longterm report about this carbon rims/wheelset.
> 
> I bought a complete wheelset of _all mountain 29er carbon mtb wheels clincher tubeless wheel ready_ about a year ago.
> 
> ...


What exactly broke? Did the rim crack? The beadwall collapse?

And what kind of riding you doing? Rocky terrain? Anything special about the place it failed?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

As you can see on the picture the rim is broken throughout. The singletrail was a little bit rocky but not too hard. Anyway I used the wheels not for all mountain or gnarly trails. And my weight is only 74kg...



midbunchlurker said:


> What exactly broke? Did the rim crack? The beadwall collapse?
> 
> And what kind of riding you doing? Rocky terrain? Anything special about the place it failed?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## midbunchlurker (Mar 18, 2005)

maettu said:


> As you can see on the picture the rim is broken throughout. The singletrail was a little bit rocky but not too hard. Anyway I used the wheels not for all mountain or gnarly trails. And my weight is only 74kg...


I hope I'm not reporting something similar in a year. Mine are getting used on some gnarly trails, some of which would qualify as "all-mountain".

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## MTB4LYFE (Aug 31, 2010)

I bought the narrow carbon 29er rims from light-bicycle. They are laced with sapim spokes and XTR hubs. They were straight and light out of the box. I use Stan's tape and they are set up tubeless with Specialized tires (not "tyres"). I have been riding them since Jan. 2013 with ZERO issues. I have put hundreds of miles on them training for the upcoming Leadville 100. My terrain is rocky and flat with little jumps/drop offs. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

MTB4LYFE said:


> with Specialized tires (not "tyres").


Funny MTB4LYFE, do you see your own irony?


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

Oh, the yroni!



Wish I Were Riding said:


> Funny MTB4LYFE, do you see your own irony?


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

maettu said:


> For this price you get a lightweight but not carefree wheelset with in my case limited lifetime :madman:


My set have been as care free as any set of aluminum rims I ever had. In fact, in my opinion they are even more care free because they have yet to need truing.


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

!4LYFE, but what did you spend?


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

New wheelset!

Front: 28h
Specialized stout 9mm thru axe tuned to 165g with OS28 cap.
Pillar 1420 bladed spokes. 3x on disk side, 2x on other side.

Rear: 32h
Roval 142+ hub with dt internal 218g
Revo strait-pull spokes 3x

Black alloy nipples, linseed oil on thread.

About new process rims: interior is more accurate and the hook is equal. On previous version, hooks were not even and the beadseat was dancing a lot. About bladed spokes: thumbs up for bendind allowance since you can bend it a lot to lace your wheel. About strait-pull spokes: wow, so much easier to lace a wheel! Cut half of the time to lace it!

I tension the front wheel and it end up with a perfect wheel. Honestly best wheel ever made by myself, tension is equal, roundness is amazing. I do not have tension tool but I did it with sound. Almost equal sound for each spoke, compared to other wheels I have to not make it too tight.

Rear wheel will be tensioned today. 1458g for the set, without tape or valve.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Johnnydrz said:


> I haven't seen this asked here before: has anyone used these rims (29") as a cyclocross rim? On-One Dirty Disco for example?
> 
> If so, what size of tire will it take? Could I put a standard 700X25 or 700X28 road tire?
> 
> ...


Johnny, this is the exact bike I built mine for. I have the narrower XC rims (21mm) and they will be getting fitted to my Dirty Disco when is clears customs. The 21mm rims will not take a 25c tyre, you could maybe push it a bit and try 28c but the recco'd min width is about 32c.

I am thinking of trying a 28c roadie tyre on them, will let you know how I go.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

mat g said:


> About new process rims: interior is more accurate and the hook is equal. On previous version, hooks were not even and the beadseat was dancing a lot.


So when you spun the wheel for truing, it's more consistent like alloy rims? If that's what you mean, THAT is fantastic! I've built the old process LB rims and some stoopid expensive DT Swiss CF rims and the inconsistent bead lip was a total PITA to deal with...had to eyeball an "average" true...not ideal!

matt g, how was the nipple seat? were they roughly of even depth? On the old process, some holes were deeper than others...you can see it in the spoke penetration thru the nipple...


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

ozzybmx said:


> Johnny, this is the exact bike I built mine for. I have the narrower XC rims (21mm) and they will be getting fitted to my Dirty Disco when is clears customs. The 21mm rims will not take a 25c tyre, you could maybe push it a bit and try 28c but the recco'd min width is about 32c.
> 
> I am thinking of trying a 28c roadie tyre on them, will let you know how I go.


Check the P.S.I. limit of the rim before using road tires, the tire pressures may exceed the limits of the rims.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

70psi is the max for these rims.


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

My LBS that built mine had similar comments...they've built a lot of the old process rims and were very surprised with these. They didn't know about the process change until I told them...now they're thinking of buying rims for themselves.

Dropping off my second set with them to replace some Arches on King hubs today! Crash tested my first set last weekend with a ripped open front tire going downhill at 45 degrees. Turned the front wheel sideways as I went over the bars and everything. Despite my best attempt to taco the rim it's still just as true and there's not even a mark on it.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

ozzybmx said:


> 70psi is the max for these rims.


Typical road bike tire pressures far exceed 70 P.S.I. If you are a lighter rider you may have some luck running pressures that low but bigger guys like myself could never get away with low pressures like that. YMMV.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

ozzybmx said:


> I am thinking of trying a 28c roadie tyre on them, will let you know how I go.


Try the new Hutchinson Secteur tubeless... I hear you can run that down to about 70psi for lighterweight riders. Might work. But people have had alot of problems with running too much pressure on these rims.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Paging meltingfeather...

Hey, have you built any of these LB rims w/ internal nipples? I'm toying w/ the idea that the rim would be stronger w/ smaller drillings...?

Anyway, I'm pinging you to see if you have any clue on spoke length/ERD addition when you use internal nipples. I dug here and on the Wheels forum...no info.

I'm eyeballing the Sapim 8mm inverted nipps...might just have to wait till I get the rims and do an ERD measure w/ some spokes in the inverted nipples...me thinks.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Pau11y said:


> So when you spun the wheel for truing, it's more consistent like alloy rims? If that's what you mean, THAT is fantastic! I've built the old process LB rims and some stoopid expensive DT Swiss CF rims and the inconsistent bead lip was a total PITA to deal with...had to eyeball an "average" true...not ideal!
> 
> matt g, how was the nipple seat? were they roughly of even depth? On the old process, some holes were deeper than others...you can see it in the spoke penetration thru the nipple...


The "depth" of the nipple seat, or the ERD is very clean and even. I have some differences between spoke penetration but it's not rim's fault. After accurate mesurements, the nipples are less than 0.5mm gap allowance from beadseat and from top of the rim. So, the thicker part of the rim, the tension ring that hold nipple is great and the differences came from top of the rim or bottom of beadseat. Or from adding the two error of them... The internal hole is bigger than my previous wheel. LB drilled 8mm now. On my old process rims, that hole was 7mm.

My rear wheel is now tensioned. Very nice rim again, less perfect than the front I did yesterday but the quality of the beadseat forming is better than old process. Some of the strait-pull spokes rotated ( not twisted) a bit at the end of tensionning. You have to hold it a bit. This is the main reason to prefer bladed spokes, you see exactly what your are doing ( twisting or rotating).


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

mat g said:


> The internal hole is bigger than my previous wheel. LB drilled 8mm now. On my old process rims, that hole was 7mm.


Mat g, is 8mm wide enough to slip one of those curved and football profile (Fulcrum) nipple washer in there?


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Pau11y said:


> Mat g, is 8mm wide enough to slip one of those curved and football profile (Fulcrum) nipple washer in there?


I don't know.


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## Re.Mtb (Aug 2, 2013)

Anyone tried these carbon mtb rims: Carbon MTB Rims, i have received 29er rims XC -24mm width and AM/XC 30mm width from Carbonal, it's great, lightweight (24mm width, 28H, 350g/355g, 30mm width, 28H, 388g/391g) and perfect appearance, it seems the 24mm width a little bit narrow, but they said it's for tubeless compatible reason.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Re.Mtb said:


> Anyone tried these carbon mtb rims: Carbon MTB Rims, i have received 29er rims XC -24mm width and AM/XC 30mm width from Carbonal, it's great, lightweight (24mm width, 28H, 350g/355g, 30mm width, 28H, 388g/391g) and perfect appearance, it seems the 24mm width a little bit narrow, but they said it's for tubeless compatible reason.


Shill
:nonod:


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

mattsavage said:


> Try the new Hutchinson Secteur tubeless... I hear you can run that down to about 70psi for lighterweight riders. Might work. But people have had alot of problems with running too much pressure on these rims.


Im no lightweight but will have a look at these, I was thinking more like a 32c or 30c if I can find any.


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## Re.Mtb (Aug 2, 2013)

i am not shill :madman: .


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## Re.Mtb (Aug 2, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> Shill
> :nonod:


i am a newcomer here,not a shill.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

Finally got myself a set, what's everyone's experience with ERD is the website published 603mm accurate in people's experience?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I would use 601.5 for calculation purposes. I think 603 is probably accurate with no tension, but after they are built up, the spokes seem a little long.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

lokisare said:


> Finally got myself a set, what's everyone's experience with ERD is the website published 603mm accurate in people's experience?


The three rims I've measured we're 603mm on the nose.
I wouldn't make any adjustments to the measurements based on hearsay without understanding exactly what I was doing.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

603mm here.


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

Yep 603 for me aswell. And that's on a set i received last week. Can't wait to build em up!


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi folks,

I'm looking to purchase a set of these LB 29 am wheelsets. Wondering if I could lean on y'all for help with options. What would be the best combo for reliability and strength:

Assuming 32h better, check

Weave? UD or 3K or 12K
Hubs? Motivated 711/712 or 811/812 or Rotaz fd140/rd240 or Novatec 881/882

I ride my N9 all over, loamy to rooty to rocky, with small jumps sub 2ft.

Thanks!


Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


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## midbunchlurker (Mar 18, 2005)

geraldooka said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm looking to purchase a set of these LB 29 am wheelsets. Wondering if I could lean on y'all for help with options. What would be the best combo for reliability and strength:
> 
> ...


I'm running 32h with DT Competition spokes and brass nips, with Hope hubs. I've got about 400k's on them so far, on rocky, rooty terrain, will multiple jumps/drops up to 6ft. I'm not babying them, but I only weigh 65kg. So far, so good.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

midbunchlurker said:


> I've got about 400k's on them so far...


Four hundred thousand miles? I call BS!


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

400 kilometers probably....


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## wheelcool (May 23, 2008)

Just a follow up on my cracked rim. Again I ride a hardtail, weigh over 200lbs, and am pretty aggressive. Although they would not replace my rim for free, even though I was in the warranty period, I think this is due to the fact that the failure occurred in a rocky section of the trail. That said, I did get a small discount on the new rim. Plus they are building this replacement rim special for me due to my size and style. It will weigh about 440 grams and if I ever break this one, they have offered to replace for free. All in all I can't complain about the experience. Sure I wish they replaced the rim for free, but I knew there was a risk moving to a carbon rim. I am hard on all my equipment and am used to things not lasting too long.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Are the Novatec 812/812 decent or is it worth it ordering the wheels with Hope hubs?


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## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

do a search in this thread for my posts - the front hub is okay but the rear one has a serious design flaw and will fail. I replaced it with a Hope II and its been great for a season now so that's my recommendation.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

There are few stories of the rear hubs failing. But then again, i have personally witnessed a few hope rear hubs fail as well. My opinion is that hope hubs are higher quality but that novatec are of average durability and quality.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I just checked my wheels that I built using the wider rims (~382g) Industry Nine Torch rear, American Classic front, 32 hole, 3x, DT Revolutions. I have been riding them for about a month and they are dead solid straight. I weigh 175 lbs. 25/23 psi IKON 2.2s. I have been pounding them (for me) and loving the way they rail. I rode this week in Breckenridge. I didn't do the Epic but did many of the trails used in the course and many are very rough. I couldn't be happier.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I had a massive rim strike yesterday. Landed a jump to flat and managed to land exactly on a sharp rock. Immediately the maxis ardent was slit by the rim and started spewing stans everywhere. 

Inspection of the rim revealed no visible damage or even any sign of the impact. The ardent is ruined though. I'll need a new tire but the rim is still perfect.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

A recent email I just received.

This is Carolin from Light-Bicycle.

We are planning to sell a new light 29er rim with no bead hook in the coming future. Please find the attached cross-section drawing.

All your suggestions are helpful for us to make the rim good enough.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Carolin

Thoughts? Stronger maybe?
no pics came trough.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Specialized did a sub 1400g wheelset. (1370g claimed)
28 rear spokes
24 front spokes
Hookless rims...
Gallery: Specialized 2014 Epic, Stumpjumper HT And Crave - First Look - BikeRadar


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

bdundee said:


> This is Carolin from Light-Bicycle.
> 
> We are planning to sell a new light 29er rim with no bead hook in the coming future. Please find the attached cross-section drawing.
> 
> ...


Hi Carolin,

This does not relate to your question about the beaded rim, but I would like to have Light-Bicycle submit your rims to a lab for individual testing. There are a number of MTBR followers that are debating whether to purchase your rims. Attaining some quantitative data for Light-Bicycle rims would help make your rims more appealing and demonstrate the quality you produce.

Keep up the great work!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

mat g said:


> Specialized did a sub 1400g wheelset. (1370g claimed)
> 28 rear spokes
> 24 front spokes
> Hookless rims...
> Gallery: Specialized 2014 Epic, Stumpjumper HT And Crave - First Look - BikeRadar


My 32 hole wider rims from June 2012 built up with sapim spokes & AC hubs weigh 1470 grams. I have a feeling Specialized is saving the weight using lower spoke count. Or at least that's what I like to think. I have no evidence to back up that belief.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

spunkmtb said:


> My 32 hole wider rims from June 2012 built up with sapim spokes & AC hubs weigh 1470 grams. I have a feeling Specialized is saving the weight using lower spoke count. Or at least that's what I like to think. I have no evidence to back up that belief.


Hubs are currently lighter than AC too! But, it's a world champion wheelset!


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

mat g said:


> Hubs are currently lighter than AC too! But, it's a world champion wheelset!


I'm a world champion as well!!!!!! Plus at night I put on my Super Hero Jammie's.


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## budgie (May 14, 2004)

Has anyone tried WTB TCS tires on the LB rims? Do they play nicely together?

Sorry if this was covered already: search didn't turn up anything & I ran out of steam trying to read all 168 pages...


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

spunkmtb said:


> My 32 hole wider rims from June 2012 built up with sapim spokes & AC hubs weigh 1470 grams. I have a feeling Specialized is saving the weight using lower spoke count. Or at least that's what I like to think. I have no evidence to back up that belief.


My 27.5 LB wide 28h rims with DT Comp spokes and DT 240 hubs weigh 1460. You can go even lighter, but I didn't want to sacrifice durability.


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## mmatrix (Aug 20, 2007)

light bicycle . are they OK to order using credit card or is it best to go through pay pal. thanks


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

meltingfeather said:


> The three rims I've measured we're 603mm on the nose.
> I wouldn't make any adjustments to the measurements based on hearsay without understanding exactly what I was doing.


Hello meltingfeather

Do you know the diameter where the nipple is seated (on the carbon surface)? Are we talking about 598 mm or so?

Ciao

ebsilon


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ebsilon said:


> Hello meltingfeather
> 
> Do you know the diameter where the nipple is seated (on the carbon surface)? Are we talking about 598 mm or so?
> 
> ...


I don't. That information is of no use.


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

Hello meltingfeather

Thank you so much for answering my question.

The information is of use to me because of the way I would like to build and the spokes/nipples I am going to use.

I have found the diameter calculated on the behalf of the rim dimensions. If the spoke hole wall thickness is 3 mm it means that the diameter is 599 mm.

Ciao

Esben


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

My rims were 599 + the nipples.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

DRILLINDK said:


> Hi Carolin,
> 
> This does not relate to your question about the beaded rim, but I would like to have Light-Bicycle submit your rims to a lab for individual testing.


That would probably have a lot more leverage if you sent it to Light-Bicycle instead of replying to a copy and paste of an e-mail from LB.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ebsilon said:


> Hello meltingfeather
> 
> Thank you so much for answering my question.
> 
> ...


OK... you've got me curious (and skeptical). How is it relevant? I suppose you're trying to add various lengths to establish the ERD rather than just measuring it (assuming you're doing something like internal nipples)?


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

meltingfeather said:


> OK... you've got me curious (and skeptical). How is it relevant? I suppose you're trying to add various lengths to establish the ERD rather than just measuring it (assuming you're doing something like internal nipples)?


Hi meltingfeather 

You got me there - I am trying to see if an internal nipple configuration could work.

I do not have the rims that is why I can not measure the diameter. But as I calculated and later on confirmed by Hauffy the diameter is 599 mm.

What du you think? Not if internal nipple is inferior to external nipples and all that, just if internal nipple configuration would work with the Light-Bicycles wide 29er rims.

Ciao

Esben


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Are the Novatex D881/D882 hubs considered decent hubs?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Are the Novatex D881/D882 hubs considered decent hubs?


I'd call them decent. I like them better than my Sram X9...


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

mattsavage said:


> I'd call them decent. I like them better than my Sram X9...


Would the D712 or the D812's be any better?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Would the D712 or the D812's be any better?


I have no idea...


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Would the D712 or the D812's be any better?


NovaTech D711/712SB are higher on Novatech's product iineup and going to be a tad lighter and a bit more refined finish but either will do the job.


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

*Light-Bicycle Wider Carbon Mountain 29er rim w/ internal nipples*

Hello all 

I am about to build a new set of wheels. The wheels in mind will be build with internal nipples.

Now I need your help how to calculate the spoke length. I know that the rim has a ERD of 603 mm. The diameter of where the nipple head is resting/carbon surface is 599 mm and finally the diameter of the rim between the outer surface is 593 mm (the carbon thickness where the spoke hole is drilled is 3 mm).

I am going to use hubs with 32 Spoke Hole Drilling and the wheel will be build with 3x all over.

The dimensions of the hubs is:

FRONT:
Axle Width (mm):	100

Flange Diameter Drive Side & non-Drive Side (mm):	57.4

Center to Flange Drive Side (mm)	31.3

Center to Flange non-Drive side (mm)	:	22.2

REAR:
Axle Width (mm):	135

Flange Diameter Drive Side & non-Drive Side (mm):	57.4

Center to Flange Drive Side (mm)	20.1

Center to Flange non-Drive side (mm)	:	33.9

NIPPLE:
Sapim Inverted Nipple 8.5 mm

I would like to have the spokes to enter the rim so that it is not possible to see the spoke thread and when the spoke is under maxium tension the spoke thread has to be somewhere in between the the thickness of the spoke hole.
The thread of the spokes (Sapim CX-Ray) is 10 mm. Maybe the spoke will pass through the nipple, but then I will cut of maybe 1 mm of the spoke thread before assembling the wheel.

So my questin is: How do I calculate the spoke length so that I can fulfill my wishes?

Thank you so much in advance for your help.

Ciao 
Esben


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Given the choice would people go for the Light Bicycle AM rim over the Derby rim or a ENVE? Money is no object but if there is no real reason to spend a extra £1500 its better in my pocket than ENVE's!


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

With all but no info from you I would say Enve.

What bike have you got ?

What type of riding do you like ?

What weight are you ?

What tyres do you like to run ?

Give as much info as you can.

I like the look of the Derby & will get a set for my Rip9 RDO with pike fork, I lik 2.35 Hans Dumpf tyres & I'm 185 lb & love the ruff.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

muzzanic said:


> With all but no info from you I would say Enve.
> 
> What bike have you got ?
> 
> ...


Sorry I was posting in a rush. I am asking on the 29er forum but I have a 650b bike. No other forum has the wealth of knowledge on the carbon rims though.

I have a 650b Santa Cruz Bronson Carbon,

AM/XC riding, quite rocky muddy shitty trails,

180lbs ready to ride,

I run Schwalbe Hans Dampfs 2.35's.

I have seen the Derby rim, it appeals and I understand the reasoning for the lack of the rim bead/hook. With me needing a 650b rim the Derby rim is very wide, 40mm iirc.


----------



## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Yes kind of a hard one, If the 650b was the same width as the 29er one I would say go Derby.

If there were not so many rocks were you ride I would pick the 40mm Derby, How ever one thing that a Little bit narrower rim will do is let the tyre protect the rim a bit more.

Another thing to look at is how much room you have around your tyres because that is going to be quite a bit less with the big wide rim.

I like the look of the Derby & I will buy a set for my 29er ( Rip9 RDO )

I have 3 friends with LB rims & all are having a good run with them.

I do think the Enve's are the best built & have a good track record, But I may never own a set & here is why.

I think if the wheels are close, Being on the right tyre for the trail you are doing is worth more speed & I would rather own a set of LB rimed wheels with a better rolling set of tyres & a set of Derby rimed wheels with meaty tyres, Than 1 set of Enve rimed wheels with a tyre somewhere in between.

My 2 c.



Rick Draper said:


> Sorry I was posting in a rush. I am asking on the 29er forum but I have a 650b bike. No other forum has the wealth of knowledge on the carbon rims though.
> 
> I have a 650b Santa Cruz Bronson Carbon,
> 
> ...


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm finally about to build up my new wheelset. Doing the rear wheel first.

Rear-
Hadley SS hub. Sapim Cx Ray spokes. 29er Wide rims.
For the spoke tension on the rear i was going to tension them to about 120kgf or #14 on a Park Tools TM1 tension meter, does that sound right for these rims?
Thanks!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Haufly; that will work fine, but you can go higher if you want.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Well it's my turn to crack a rim. I rode last wednesday and there is a spot where the recent rain had damaged the trails considerably, leaving a deep rocky gully. I saw it at the last minute and rode it very poorly, then heard a loud "crack". At first I thought it was my saddle rails because it hit me pretty hard but after seating on it, everything felt fine and I just kept on riding for over an hour. I also rode the rin on last satruday, forgetting to check out for the soruce of the "crack" sound I had heard. Upon hitting a 1.5 foot high drop I heard the same sound. I rode down the technical descent and then checked it out. Surely, the rim was cracked... Only the sidewall is cracked on both sides, the rim bed looks fine. I'm unsure if I bottomed out the tire, I ride 28 PSI on my rear wheel and have never bottomed out a 26in wheel with the same pressure and tire width. It might have been a one-off rim hit. See pics below.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

PissedOffCil said:


> Well it's my turn to crack a rim. I rode last wednesday and there is a spot where the recent rain had damaged the trails considerably, leaving a deep rocky gully. I saw it at the last minute and rode it very poorly, then heard a loud "crack". At first I thought it was my saddle rails because it hit me pretty hard but after seating on it, everything felt fine and I just kept on riding for over an hour. I also rode the rin on last satruday, forgetting to check out for the soruce of the "crack" sound I had heard. Upon hitting a 1.5 foot high drop I heard the same sound. I rode down the technical descent and then checked it out. Surely, the rim was cracked... Only the sidewall is cracked on both sides, the rim bed looks fine. I'm unsure if I bottomed out the tire, I ride 28 PSI on my rear wheel and have never bottomed out a 26in wheel with the same pressure and tire width. It might have been a one-off rim hit. See pics below.
> 
> View attachment 826885
> 
> ...


Do you think the same hit would have damaged an Aluminum rim?


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Last year I was on Velocity Blunt SL rims and I dented them almost every week until I found the "magic" 28 PSI pressure with which I had good grip and no rim impacts.

As I said, I'm not 100% sure it was a rim strike but it certainly looks like it. If it was, I would have dented a similar weight aluminium rim without a doubt. To think I had broken my saddle rails, it was a hard impact.

P.S. I consider myself hard on wheels although I am ~150 pounds. Riding a hardtail certainly doesn't help but man is it fun!


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

What size and type tire was used. From the pictures looks pretty narrow, maybe 28psi was way too low?


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## Red Smurf (Jul 15, 2013)

Ordered and received a set of LB 29" wide rim wheels with 881/882 hubs. About 150 Marin County miles on them. I am 220 lbs, running 35 psi tubeless, Maxxis Ikons, Stans valves and rim tape. Rode them right out of the box, no problems, a little settling creaks the first 30 miles or so, quiet now. Maybe a 1 or 2 millimeters out of tru, not significant. Spin up nice, definitely feel the damping, stiffer than my stans arch ex. No problems at all, definitely worth the $$ IMO so far.


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## Taranis (Dec 30, 2009)

I've got 2 rides on my LB 29er wide (new process) wheel set. I ordered them w/ Hope Pro2 hubs and love em so far.

My bike is a Jet9 RDO built up and used as a trail bike mostly at Annadel (moderately chunky park in Sonoma Co CA- here's a video that's pretty illustrative of the riding I do on these wheels. Annadel Rough Go 4/7/12 - YouTube ).

I'm 200lbs geared up, and running them tubeless @ 35 rear & 33 front. (Conti RaceKings 2.2)

Edit: That's not me on the video - I always slow down for hikers


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

epiphreddy said:


> What size and type tire was used. From the pictures looks pretty narrow, maybe 28psi was way too low?


Regular Rocket Ron 29x2.25 with tube


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## Notasfastasmykid (Aug 27, 2013)

*My experience with 26" LB Rims*

Another experience with LB rims, FWIW:

I've been riding LB wide 26's on an Ibis Mojo HD for a year. They are built on American Classic hubs and spokes. In fact, these wheels started out as AC All Mountains, but the original AC All Mountain 26 rims barely made it through one season of riding intact.

Was able to use the stock AC spokes and simply swap the rims/nipples. Built with nearly identical spoke tension. Very easy. The LB rims weighed in right around 360 gr. The AC All Mountain rims are about 420 gr, so the change reduced rotating mass by a quarter lb, which is noticeable but not pronounced.

However, the increased stiffness of the LB carbon rims was quite noticeable and took some getting used to. The wheels felt stiff, almost hard at first, with a lot more ground surface feel. I had been running the AC's with more air than I wanted due to their soft flanges. Immediately started backing the pressures down to where I wanted, 24 psi up front, 29 in back (2.4 Nobby Nics both). They've been there all season and feel great at those pressures.

The LB wheels have now withstood a season of riding without being trued and are still reasonably straight. Spokes tensions are well down, especially on the rear wheel, but no sign of distress around the spoke holes.

But the big news is that the rims are nearly ding free. There's a bit of one in the front and a couple of small ones in the rear, but no sign of cracks. When I pull these off and tighten them up I'll see if the front needs to be repaired, but they look like they will survive another season anyway.

This is in contrast to the AC All Mountain rims. At my preferred pressures they wouldn't have survived a year. Even at higher pressures they were collecting dings and flat spots at an alarming rate. It got so I was having trouble getting the front wheel bead to seal and had to run the rear with a tube...

I'm sold on the LB rims. However, if I was looking at rims today (and they made a 26") I would probably buy the Derbys in a hot second. Local, light, wide, reasonably priced. Frankly, I'm offended by the cost of Enve rims.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Jud6yolas said:


> quoted spammer


The rims wish you knew what you're doing.

They work with I9 hubs, people have posted here. Some have even had the rims shipped to I9 and had them build wheels for them with these rims.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Yep I have had 2 sets of I9 with these LB rims built up & going strong, On the same spokes as the Flows.



Jud6yolas said:


> quoted spammer


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## Ragz22 (Mar 10, 2013)

Notasfastasmykid said:


> I'm sold on the LB rims. However, if I was looking at rims today (and they made a 26") I would probably buy the Derbys in a hot second. Local, light, wide, reasonably priced. Frankly, I'm offended by the cost of Enve rims.


Send Derby an email and request some 26" rims, the more requests he gets may influence them to start making them. FWIW I have emailed them.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

I swung by Home Depot to grab a roll of gorilla tape and all I could find was the stuff that looks like black duct tape in 1" & 2" rolls. Is that the right stuff or do they make a more plastic like tape similar to the Stan's stuff?


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## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

Rojo, that's the stuff. Black and 1". Good stuff.


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## MondoRides (Feb 18, 2004)

RojoRacing53 said:


> I swung by Home Depot to grab a roll of gorilla tape and all I could find was the stuff that looks like black duct tape in 1" & 2" rolls. Is that the right stuff or do they make a more plastic like tape similar to the Stan's stuff?


If it looks like this, you found the right stuff.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Light-bicycle are replacing my rim free of charge. I only get to pay shipping. Good and fast service and I consider myself lucky for getting this offer.



PissedOffCil said:


> Last year I was on Velocity Blunt SL rims and I dented them almost every week until I found the "magic" 28 PSI pressure with which I had good grip and no rim impacts.
> 
> As I said, I'm not 100% sure it was a rim strike but it certainly looks like it. If it was, I would have dented a similar weight aluminium rim without a doubt. To think I had broken my saddle rails, it was a hard impact.
> 
> P.S. I consider myself hard on wheels although I am ~150 pounds. Riding a hardtail certainly doesn't help but man is it fun!


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Bikerumor link to Stan's new carbon rims at Eurobike. No mention of weight, width, or prices. They also don't mention if the rims will be available as rims only or just complete wheelsets. Supposedly more info at Interbike so we'll find out more in September.

Stan?s Enters the Carbon Wheel Game, shows Valor at Eurobike


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Stan's is still relevant?


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## savechief (Jun 8, 2004)

Just ordered 2 of the light-bicycle.com wide 29er rims (matte, UD, 32H) last night. I'm going to have them laced up to the stock DT Swiss 350 hubs and (hopefully) the stock spokes/nipples as well. They will be replacing the DT Swiss XR400 rims that came on my Yeti SB-95 Race build.


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## eddieman (Nov 20, 2006)

Got mine yesterday. LB wide 29 rims (matte, 3K, 28H). Weight 378 and 380 gramms. 

Visually they look great. I'm exited how they will be when I will have laced them. I will lace them with Sapim CX-Ray, 3-cross, Alu nipples and probably Tune King/Kong hubs.

Will be a nice light wheelset....


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

PeterQ said:


> We can offer the wheels you need, maybe someone else has interest.
> 
> Below combination available:
> -Standard front and rear QR
> ...


Peter do you have an add on here? Stop spamming your crap til you pay and support the site you're making money off of.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Peter do you have an add on here? Stop spamming your crap til you pay and support the site you're making money off of.


I emailed Gregg about the same thing and they have not done anything...it is really frustrating to see and the guys that pay for ads should be pissed...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Andy13 said:


> Bikerumor link to Stan's new carbon rims at Eurobike. No mention of weight, width, or prices. They also don't mention if the rims will be available as rims only or just complete wheelsets. Supposedly more info at Interbike so we'll find out more in September.
> 
> Stan?s Enters the Carbon Wheel Game, shows Valor at Eurobike


Gonna keep an eye on this. Definitely like my Crests, so these would probably be good too. Concerned for impact strength though.


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> Peter do you have an add on here? Stop spamming your crap til you pay and support the site you're making money off of.


Are you paying for an ad on here?

I don't mind Peter keeping me updated on their upcoming wheels...


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

sjaakoo said:


> Are you paying for an ad on here?
> 
> I don't mind Peter keeping me updated on their upcoming wheels...


Then send him your e-mail address because the punk has been spamming the forum.


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Then send him your e-mail address because the punk has been spamming the forum.


Forgive me for my ignorance but why should I ?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

sjaakoo said:


> Forgive me for my ignorance but why should I ?


So you can stay updated on the douchenozzles upcoming products without him spamming the board. Comprehend'?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

sjaakoo said:


> Are you paying for an ad on here?
> 
> I don't mind Peter keeping me updated on their upcoming wheels...


I'm not selling anything at the moment and when I do I take out an add. I've paid for about 6-7 so far. This ******* is a manufacturer spamming the site. He should buy an add.


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

Dirty $anchez said:


> So you can stay updated on the douchenozzles upcoming products without him spamming the board. Comprehend'?


Thank you but I am not giving anyone my email address because you say I should.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

sjaakoo said:


> Thank you but I am not giving anyone my email address because you say I should.


But you want updates on his products, its just like signing up for updates from any other manufacturers.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> But you want updates on his products, its just like signing up for updates from any other manufacturers.


On that turn, why should we have to read the spammers posts because you say we should? GFY.


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

Dirty $anchez said:


> On that turn, why should we have to read the spammers posts because you say we should? GFY.


I don't have any say in whether or not this guy is posting in this thread..
And I have never said you have to read his post.
I was just saying that I didn't mind reading it.


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> But you want updates on his products, its just like signing up for updates from any other manufacturers.


I see what you mean, it is just that I get a bit stubborn when people tell me what to do, especially if it is not exactly in the form of good advice..


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

sjaakoo said:


> I see what you mean, it is just that I get a bit stubborn when people tell me what to do, especially if it is not exactly in the form of good advice..


Are you 9 years old?
Why don't you want to give out your e-mail address? Probably so you won't get spammed.
He repeatedly spams the boards selling products, which is not what the forum is for and not fair to paying advertisers, even if you personally don't mind reading these particular "updates."


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

sjaakoo said:


> I see what you mean, it is just that I get a bit stubborn when people tell me what to do, especially if it is not exactly in the form of good advice..


You were an ass and fired back at me asking if I had an add. I'm not a manufacturer looking for free advertising on a website. He is. Much different.


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> Are you 9 years old?
> Why don't you want to give out your e-mail address? Probably so you won't get spammed.
> He repeatedly spams the boards selling products, which is not what the forum is for and not fair to paying advertisers, even if you personally don't mind reading these particular "updates."


No I am not 9 years old but over 50 unfortunately.
Giving my email address is just not my way of gathering information.

I have been on European mountainbike forums for at least ten years and things have always been relaxed there...
I just came here to learn more about Chinese frames and rims.

I suppose I really have to watch my words very carefully on this forum otherwise some people get very rude.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

Getting back on track...

I now have 700 miles on a set of these rims, touch wood, no issues.. I have ridden road miles, fire roads, single track, rock gardens and even drop offs. The tire pressures I'm most happy with are 25 -26 front and 28 rear.

Feed back is great with my wheel set up, and weight is really good. I have the Hope Evo hubs with DT swiss Revolutions and brass nipples.

I saw a set of American Classic hubs that have me thinking of a light light wheelset....maybe in the 1400 gram range.. mine are 1610.

I'll post up again at 1000...


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

YamaDan said:


> Getting back on track...
> 
> I now have 700 miles on a set of these rims, touch wood, no issues.. I have ridden road miles, fire roads, single track, rock gardens and even drop offs. The tire pressures I'm most happy with are 25 -26 front and 28 rear.
> 
> ...


Good to know but tire pressures don't really mean anything unless you put down Tire sizes as well.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

muzzanic said:


> Good to know but tire pressures don't really mean anything unless you put down Tire sizes as well.


and probably more important.. rider weight..


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

Sorry, my bad...

Rider weight is 170 off the bike, geared up ready to ride 180-185..

Tires are the Forte Pisga's 2.2.. Don't knock'em til you try em.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

sjaakoo said:


> I suppose I really have to watch my words very carefully on this forum otherwise some people get very rude.


Nah, just don't jump into threads by challenging other members with bratty ignorant comments.
Maybe it is just a cross-cultural translation gap, but when you jump on a comment that had nothing to do with you to challenge a forum poster who has nothing for sale with, "do you have an ad" and follow up (on a good advice suggestion) with, "pardon my ignorance, but why should I" it just makes you sound like an uninformed d00shbag.
If it makes you feel better to turn it into a US vs. UK thing, with all the implied judgements, that probably won't go over very well either.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

SandSpur said:


> and probably more important.. rider weight..


Yep the more info the better.


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## Gravitythief76 (Mar 13, 2008)

Anyone got some pics of the new 26" 33 wide rims with tires mounted up? (It would be awesome if they were Nobby Nics) its about time for me to build up a new whelset and im thinking about lacing up a pair of these.


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

Just ordered a single rim. I'm planning on lacing up my CK rear hub to this carbon hoop. Super excited right now!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

YamaDan said:


> Sorry, my bad...
> 
> Rider weight is 170 off the bike, geared up ready to ride 180-185..
> 
> Tires are the Forte Pisga's 2.2.. Don't knock'em til you try em.


I just picked one of those up on sale for $26. I figure for that price it's hard to go wrong. I want a tire that sticks like velcro so I can finally clean Two Dollar Hill in JMP before they close it off in a month. I hear it rolls like crap, but we'll see.

Oh, and it's going on my LB AM carbon rims.

Dang, I remember when there was a time when it was easy to pick up a big variety of good 29er tires for around $25 each. Seems that the going rate has doubled in the last couple years. It's nice to see some good lower rent options still exist for cheapskates like me.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

jochribs said:


> Gonna keep an eye on this. Definitely like my Crests, so these would probably be good too. Concerned for impact strength though.


... but... you're on Crests. Geez, anything would have more impact strength than a Crest.


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

sjaakoo said:


> I suppose I really have to watch my words very carefully on this forum otherwise some people get very rude.


Isn't that true everywhere?


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> The Bonty Rhythm strips fit the AM carbon rims perfectly and make for a nice snug fit. Probably not needed for some tires, but for a secure/safe interface - it's hard to beat.
> 
> Find 'em here: Rhythm strips
> 
> ...


Hi veteran bruce brown These no longer seem available online at your link. Is there a new better setup for the AM wheels. (and yes I did use the "Search this thread tool"  )


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## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

crack light-bicycle rim 29er wider


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

jvossman said:


> Hi veteran bruce brown These no longer seem available online at your link. Is there a new better setup for the AM wheels. (and yes I did use the "Search this thread tool"  )


Bontrager: Tubeless Replacement Parts (Model #02566)


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

Sergey,
Tell us more how your rim got cracked - trail type/condition, your riding style, how long you have been using the rims, new process or old process rims etc. So we all can learn something from your misfortune.


----------



## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Select Black
Select Rythm Tubeless Rim Strip
Select 29"

They are currently out of stock, but they run out all the time. they should have stock in a few weeks.


----------



## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

jlian said:


> Sergey,
> Tell us more how your rim got cracked - trail type/condition, your riding style, how long you have been using the rims, new process or old process rims etc. So we all can learn something from your misfortune.


 I rode XC style about 3 thousand kilometers, especially in the mountains about 1000 km. Also I use my bike for ride to work, it is about 5000 km on this rims.
I dont known which process: new or old, but i have serial number into the rim. It can help?


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

hardtail?


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

I recently had a bent rim on my high end DT Swiss wheelset. In order for the wheel to be true again, the rim would need to be replaced as the LBS was unable to get the existing rim true again. I've even noticed that I no longer have even spoke tension, two of the spokes are not as tight at the rest. The LBS even said the loose spokes are a result of the bent rim.

So, rather than purchasing another DT Swiss rim that may bend easily, I am considering getting a set of Chinese Carbon hoops. I do mostly all XC riding, although there are quite a few rocks and roots in the trails around here.

My first question is, do carbon wheels ever go out of true? Seems like they would stay straight unless they crack or somehow have uneven spoke tension. 

Please educate me on some of the other characteristics of carbon wheels besides being light and stiff.


----------



## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> My first question is, do carbon wheels ever go out of true? Seems like they would stay straight unless they crack or somehow have uneven spoke tension.
> 
> Please educate me on some of the other characteristics of carbon wheels besides being light and stiff.


Ok.. Some of the things that surprised me when I built mine was how much the rim could be pulled out of true. It's not a "solid" piece of carbon, it does have some degree of flex in it. That being said, once built, there has really been no need to true them.. and I have beaten on them.

Over tension of the spokes would be something to watch out for, you don't want to pull the nipple through the rim. Most the breaks I have seen on this thread appear to be from rock strikes.

They are a pretty easy rim to build up.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

pimpbot said:


> I just picked one of those up on sale for $26. I figure for that price it's hard to go wrong. I want a tire that sticks like velcro so I can finally clean Two Dollar Hill in JMP before they close it off in a month. I hear it rolls like crap, but we'll see.
> 
> Oh, and it's going on my LB AM carbon rims.
> 
> Dang, I remember when there was a time when it was easy to pick up a big variety of good 29er tires for around $25 each. Seems that the going rate has doubled in the last couple years. It's nice to see some good lower rent options still exist for cheapskates like me.


They roll fine. They work in a variety of conditions here in So Cal, I have about 700 miles on a set now.. I did just get a set of the Conti Race Kings on clearance..$27 each! but I'll save that for a different thread.


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## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

kidd said:


> hardtail?


yes


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## Dangerman76 (Apr 26, 2010)

*Light Bicycle 29er Rim Crack - Old Process*

After 1 year of use, no, actually, one year of abuse, the rear rim has cracked. It is a Light-Bicycle 29er rim that's 30mm wide (external width).

This rim has been super strong though. It has put holes on my tyre on 2 separate occassions after rock strikes without any damage to the rim. And there have been plenty more rock strikes than just those two.

I ride low pressures (18-24psi), weight 80kg and ride an Epic 29er as if it was a long travel Enduro.

I'm so happy with the rim's performance that I have just ordered a replacement from Light-Bicycle.

Photos:
Carbon Rims - a set on Flickr


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

jvossman said:


> Hi veteran bruce brown These no longer seem available online at your link. Is there a new better setup for the AM wheels. (and yes I did use the "Search this thread tool"  )


As mentioned, probably out of stock at the moment. That happens from time to time and keep checking back as they will eventually get a new shipment.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Since I have a good set of DT Swiss 28 hole hubs from my current wheel set that I would rebuild using carbon hoops, what spokes and nipples would you guys recommend?

Second, I've never built a wheel before, is this something I could do myself or do I need to find a local wheel builder to do the job? Or I'm thinking maybe I could assemble the wheel and have a LBS tension the spokes and check the final true of the wheels.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Epic_Dude said:


> Since I have a good set of DT Swiss 28 hole hubs from my current wheel set that I would rebuild using carbon hoops, what spokes and nipples would you guys recommend?


Brass nipples and Sapim CX Ray.

If you like your shop and they like you I would take them there.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Brass nipples and CX Race. CX Race are one third the price of the Ray's. My two cents.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Brass nipples and CX Race. CX race are one third the price of the Ray's. My two cents.


You can actually get Races with nipples from Dan's Comp for $0.50 each, so more like 1/7 the price of Rays. Lasers can be had for 1/4 the price, if you want the same weight and performance of Rays.


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

I ordered the wider 29er carbon hoop. Is the ERD truly 603? I'm planning on lacing it up with my Chris King iso 12x142 rear hub. The spoke lengths that I calculated are 292.5 and 291.2. 

The only dimension that I guessed with is the spoke hole diameter. I used 2.5mm to be safe. Does anyone know the actual spoke hole diameter? 

Thanks.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Can I buy just a front wheel (29er) from light bicycle? I want to replace my front Arch EX cuz it is too flexy with an LB wheel.

What would be the best route?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

I got my wheelset from Light bicycle.

- Wide all mountain 29er rims
- 32 spokes
- Novatec D811 / D812 Hubs. 15mm Thru axle front / QR Rear
- Gorilla tape for tubeless

The wheelset weighes 1633 grams with the Gorilla tape.

Mounted Ikon 2.2 up front and Aspen 2.1 rear. Had to use a compressor to get the bead to seal. My lezyne high volume pump didn't cut it.

Still haven't ridden yet but the build looks nice.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

zephxiii said:


> Can I buy just a front wheel (29er) from light bicycle? I want to replace my front Arch EX cuz it is too flexy with an LB wheel.
> 
> What would be the best route?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


Maybe ask them?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

zephxiii said:


> Can I buy just a front wheel (29er) from light bicycle? I want to replace my front Arch EX cuz it is too flexy with an LB wheel.
> 
> What would be the best route?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


Question for you: you're only feeling flex in the front wheel? Where, during steering? Unless you've laced up a different rim to the rear, wouldn't said flex also exist on the rear and diminish your power delivery to your ONLY drive wheel?


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## midbunchlurker (Mar 18, 2005)

zephxiii said:


> Can I buy just a front wheel (29er) from light bicycle? I want to replace my front Arch EX cuz it is too flexy with an LB wheel.
> 
> What would be the best route?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


Build it with thicker spokes. I can't imagine an Arch EX being stiffer than the LB. Try a Flow EX if you want a stiffer rim.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Spokes are not likely to help, stiffness in a wheel is more a function of a stiff rim and a proper build.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

I've read a lot on how carbon rims are stiffer than Alu ones of similar weight which is why I am interested. The arch EX is def more flexy than my OEM front wheel, the difference is noticeable...but the OEM wheel is a lot heavier.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

zephxiii said:


> I've read a lot on how carbon rims are stiffer than Alu ones of similar weight which is why I am interested. The arch EX is def more flexy than my OEM front wheel, the difference is noticeable...but the OEM wheel is a lot heavier.


Yes, I went from Arch Ex wheels to the LB rims and felt that the carbon rims track and corner much better...and are a little lighter to boot.

You can order as single rim and build it yourself, or order a single built-up wheel from them. No need to order a pair, no problem.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## midbunchlurker (Mar 18, 2005)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Spokes are not likely to help, stiffness in a wheel is more a function of a stiff rim and a proper build.


Nope, you're wrong. Stiffness is a function of the rim, the number and thickness of spokes, and the distance between hub flanges. See http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

midbunchlurker said:


> Nope, you're wrong. Stiffness is a function of the rim, the number and thickness of spokes, and the distance between hub flanges. See http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm


Wait. He is right by ranking the rim as the most important component to stiffness but is wrong in listing "proper build" as a contributing factor over your next two.


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## meerkite (Oct 26, 2011)

Whats LB wheel build like? Carbon hoops and some hope pro2 hubs sounds good to me. Anyone QC'd the wheel build? Thinking do I buy the parts and build up or just order built up by LB...

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk 2


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

midbunchlurker said:


> Nope, you're wrong. Stiffness is a function of the rim, the number and thickness of spokes, and the distance between hub flanges. See http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm


Going from ultralight 2.0/1.45 to 2.0 straight gauge changed the lateral deflection 0.005" in his one test. I know there are a lot of princesses and peas on mtbr, and I'm not about to argue what people can and can't feel, I just thought the value and variation in gauge tested was illustrative.
The article also says,
"Interestingly, wheel stiffness depends on more than just spoke thickness; the rim and other factors also contribute, so only part of the increase in raw spoke stiffness shows up in measured wheel stiffness. The thicker spoke by itself is nearly twice as stiff axially as the thinner spoke!"
Which means that spoke gauge plays a minor role and is a relatively ineffective use of additional steel in the wheel.

Bottom line: Your suggestion redirecting the guy from buying a stiffer rim to tearing his wheel down and rebuilding it with thicker spokes (where did he say what gauge he has now?) is a poor one and would most likely be ineffective, which was $anchez' point... a good one.


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

Just got an email saying that my rim and water bottle cage has shipped. I can't wait to get it!


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Mazukea said:


> Just got an email saying that my rim and water bottle cage has shipped. I can't wait to get it!


I just got an email saying my 3k gloss cages weren't in stock and they're pushing me to take uni directional. What kind of cages did you get? They quoted me 20 days for my rims with orange Light-Bicycle.com decals in a 3k matte.


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

I wanted the 3K matte water bottle cage, but they said that they only had UD matte available. So I changed my order. It's just a water bottle cage so I'm not going to be picky. It took about 7 days for them to ship out my order. I should get it in 4-7 days.


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## rp42 (Sep 14, 2013)

Hello forum,

I received these 29" XC "tubeless compatible" wheels:
IP-M23C carbon 29er wheels, NSS carbon clincher 29er wheels tubeless compatible XC wheels-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Do you have experience about these wheels and tubeless setup? Do they work with only NoTubes rim tape or should I get a heavier rim strip?

Thanks.


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

rp42 said:


> Hello forum,
> 
> I received these [...] wheels:
> ....


Oh, a slight variation of the method might, indeed, lead to success...


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

rp42 said:


> Hello forum,
> 
> I received these 29" XC "tubeless compatible" wheels:
> 
> ...


Spam.................wrappers, yeah, that's the ticket.


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## rp42 (Sep 14, 2013)

Ok I see your point, but this is a real case (you can test my Finnish language, I think that people in xmiplay do not know Finnish very well).

So could someone answer the question please. It is the last thing I need to know to post my components order for the bike.

Thanks.


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

rp42 said:


> Ok I see your point, but this is a real case (you can test my Finnish language, I think that people in xmiplay do not know Finnish very well).
> 
> So could someone answer the question please. It is the last thing I need to know to post my components order for the bike.
> 
> Thanks.


You should make a new thread. This one is highly dedicated to the Light Bicycle Carbon rims.

You will probably get more help that way.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

I've been following this thread for over a year and have read almost every post. I'm preparing to purchase a set of carbon rims this winter. However, I'm becoming increasingly leary with more early adopters beginning to experience and report cracks in LB carbon rims. 





Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

DRILLINDK said:


> I've been following this thread for over a year and have read almost every post. I'm preparing to purchase a set of carbon rims this winter. However, I'm becoming increasingly leary with more early adopters beginning to experience and report cracks in LB carbon rims.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


Most of the cracks appear to be damage from too low pressure/rock strikes from my limited view. There also seem to be a limited number of those. Ordering rims soon myself if that helps any.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well I think the failure rate is low overall. I have 3 sets of LB rims with no failures or damage so far and I have broken a Crest rim. The more rims that get out there, the more failures there will be. The failures seem to be from rock strikes that would have more than likely dented an aluminum rim. Failures almost always get reported whereas hundreds of people with no issues doesn't really get reported. I find these rims to be very strong and durable but I don't do drops into rock gardens either.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

I agree with both of you. And yes, my observance is that most rim cracks are attributed to too low of pressure and rim strike. There have been no catastrophic failures that I can remember and in most instances the rim is still rideable and held pressure. 

Just seems like a lot of failure at about the 1-2 mark. I would say <20 psi is too low and risk rim strike 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

20psi is fine and dandy until you hit that ONE rock that compresses the tire and impacts the rim.

For years I've had to run mid-30s to upper 30s, even 40s at times, to avoid denting my rims. It was the same thing, dent a rim and it's all over, although often with those rims you didn't get a catastrophic failure at once, but you did trash the rim. Maybe I ride harder or in rockier terrain (no question in AZ), but the whole idea that you can run "20s" in terms of PSI has always seemed bogus to me. Sure, you won't get a pinch flat with tubeless, but that was never the reason I ran the PSI I did. It was to prevent hitting the rim.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Maybe I ride harder or in rockier terrain


Definitely :skep:
Nobody rides harder than you or in rockier terrain without running mid 30s to 40s. ut:

p.s. if you have to get into the 40s to prevent pinch flats it's a technique thing 100% :thumbsup:


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## Dangerman76 (Apr 26, 2010)

*Just make a decision! ;-)*



DRILLINDK said:


> Just seems like a lot of failure at about the 1-2 mark. I would say <20 psi is too low and risk rim strike


If you're concerned about the rim failing due to rock strikes, then
- run high pressures or
- don't buy the rim or
- pick your lines well and put aside some money to replace it when the eventual rock strike happens.

I use Stans FlowEX as training wheels. Weight penalty is small (545g for Stans and 400g for LB), lateral stiffness is superior and rim wall strength is astounding.

When it's race time, I use the LB rims. Like my post said earlier, the LB rim I cracked had hit numerous rocks and had twice pinch-flatted my tubeless tyre without any damage to the rim. So even with that, I was two rims ahead as no Al XC rim would survive a tyre pinch-flat without caving in the rim wall.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

I have my first set of LB 29er Wide rims laced to Dt Swiss 240 hubs. I can't wait too ride hard on this set of wheels. However, I'm having a hard time getting the tires on to the rim. I get 1 side is the tire on and them work the other side. I get to a point where it gets soo tight I can't even get it on with a tire lever? Anyone else have this problem?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

meltingfeather said:


> p.s. if you have to get into the 40s to prevent pinch flats it's a technique thing 100% :thumbsup:


Or it's rocks. I was referring to a few situations where it was necessary to run 40, but if you've ever hit a square solid rock water bar at 30mph, maybe you can relate. The trails are absolutely fun, but running very low pressure can bite you bad. This is just one of the trails, and it wasn't 40 every day or anything, but combination of certain terrain + rider weight and so on can definitely do it. I've been riding enough to know that.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Fat bike anyone ???


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## Dangerman76 (Apr 26, 2010)

mmanuel09 said:


> I have my first set of LB 29er Wide rims laced to Dt Swiss 240 hubs. I can't wait too ride hard on this set of wheels. However, I'm having a hard time getting the tires on to the rim. I get 1 side is the tire on and them work the other side. I get to a point where it gets soo tight I can't even get it on with a tire lever? Anyone else have this problem?


Just make sure that the tyre bead that you are installing is in the centre channel of the rim. Usually, the first side that you put on takes up that space in the centre channel making the second side harder to install.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

mmanuel09 said:


> I have my first set of LB 29er Wide rims laced to Dt Swiss 240 hubs. I can't wait too ride hard on this set of wheels. However, I'm having a hard time getting the tires on to the rim. I get 1 side is the tire on and them work the other side. I get to a point where it gets soo tight I can't even get it on with a tire lever? Anyone else have this problem?


That is my set-up.....you are going to love them!


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Whooaaa. It took me a couple of tries and had to bust out the soap and water. My hands are a little raw. BUT... I got them on! I like to set it up with a regular inner tube then take the inner tube out to set it up tubeless. I'll give it a go tonight. I can't wait to ride them.

Set up:
LB 29er rims wide
DT swiss 240 hubs
DT comp DB butted spokes
Alloy nips
1 wrap of Gorrila tape
Continental Race King 2.2 Protection Rear
WTB 2.3 Weirwolf TCS front

The WTB looks soo big to me. I might switch out too Continental X King 2.2 Protection for the front. I've really been enjoying this tire for my area. I'd like to keep my set up as light as possible. I just feel this tire knifes through the turns and has pretty good grip as a 29er. 

My bike is Niner Jet 9 RDO. 

The quality of these rims looks top notch. A couple of my friends have the carbon rovals. Looks just like them.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Oh Yeah, I've read every post on this topic. Took me a while but thanks to everyone I made my decision to give them a try. I mean for the price and carbon? Why the hell not.....


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

even if they do break (I have been running them for a year at 20 psi, Im 165lbs, with no problems). they will sometimes send you a new one for just shipping - $50 even if it was your fault. If you had to buy a new one it would only be $200.

Personally I wouldnt take advantage of their free replacement if I knew it was my fault.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Holy ****.............


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

mmanuel09 said:


> Holy ****.............


Sorry... Last night was that good!!!!

Went Tubeless on the first try with floor pump and 1 wrap of Gorrilla Tape. Rode last night and ..... Well!!!!:thumbsup:


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Select Black
> Select Rythm Tubeless Rim Strip
> Select 29"
> 
> They are currently out of stock, but they run out all the time. they should have stock in a few weeks.


i just got a set from my LBS that appear to be the regular bontrager symmetric rim strip, but without the rhythm designation...
anyone here still have success with these?
thanks.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

powderturns said:


> i just got a set from my LBS that appear to be the regular bontrager symmetric rim strip, but without the rhythm designation...
> anyone here still have success with these?
> thanks.


I have had 16 months of zero issues with no rim strips.


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

spunkmtb said:


> I have had 16 months of zero issues with no rim strips.


what did you use instead? gorilla tape?


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Stan's wide yellow tape. Tires have both been Schwalbe. NN & HD. I weigh 230 geared up. I used to have an LT 29er. Went up to the local ski area three times with it. Handled all the extreme AM runs with zero issues.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

spunkmtb said:


> I have had 16 months of zero issues with no rim strips.


One guy said he preferred the strips to tape like 2 years ago and people are still assuming they need them.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

92gli said:


> One guy said he preferred the strips to tape like 2 years ago and people are still assuming they need them.


I know. I remember. I could always envision his soap box rising out of this thread when he would preach the benefits of them.


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## powderturns (Jun 19, 2007)

lol - well maybe I'm a sucker after all... anyway, had my own reasons for using strips, but sounds like people are happy with tape as well - happier even.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

powderturns said:


> lol - well maybe I'm a sucker after all... anyway, had my own reasons for using strips, but sounds like people are happy with tape as well - happier even.


What it comes down to is some tires work better than others. IME over the past two years the Specialized tires work perfect with just rim tape.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> What it comes down to is some tires work better than others. IME over the past two years the Specialized tires work perfect with just rim tape.


I have used Bontrager's product for almost ten years. If it ain't broke...

On another note. I am 170 geared, ride a hard tail with ikon 2.2s and anything above 25psi is no fun. For me, the optimal psi is about 20 and I am going back to this pressure and don't care if I crack a rim. Mountain biking is about fun, not saving your gear for another harsh ride.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Adroit Rider;10686063]I have used Bontrager's product for almost ten years. If it ain't broke...

On another note. I am 170 geared, ride a hard tail with ikon 2.2s and anything above 25psi is no fun. For me, the optimal psi is about 20 and I am going back to this pressure and don't care if I crack a rim.



> Mountain biking is about fun, not saving your gear for another harsh ride.


I gave you + rep for that, Fun is King.


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## Dangerman76 (Apr 26, 2010)

mmanuel09 said:


> Went Tubeless on the first try with floor pump and 1 wrap of Gorrilla Tape.


I'm not familiar with Gorilla Tape. Does it have a cloth reinforcement layer?

If not, make sure to check the tape every few months. I've found that even the best tapes without a cloth layer (or other reinforcement) tend to slip or stretch down into the spoke holes over time. The failure mode isn't an issue, just a slow leak that gets worse and worse.

Enjoy the grip!


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Adroit Rider said:


> I have used Bontrager's product for almost ten years. If it ain't broke...
> 
> On another note. I am 170 geared, ride a hard tail with ikon 2.2s and anything above 25psi is no fun. For me, the optimal psi is about 20 and I am going back to this pressure and don't care if I crack a rim. Mountain biking is about fun, not saving your gear for another harsh ride.


185 lbs on a HT.... 20 psi is pure bliss


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Do their shipments to the US require a signature at delivery ?


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Mine did not. They just left on my porch like everything else I buy.


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## rx4mtb (Jul 20, 2012)

Mine came USPS, no one was home so I had to pick it up at the PO.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Are these the same as the LB rims?
29er Carbon Mountain Bike Rims 32 Holes Super Light Weight Tubeless Compatible | eBay


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't think the tape has the outer cloth but it is a really durable tape. I've used this in the past and all my set ups has never given me an issue.

I've had a week on these wheels now and I'm super impressed with the stiffness. Almost to stiff. I'm dropped to 24 psi on the front and 28 psi in the rear. I think it's still to stiff. A little nervous about dropping it more. It's the only wheel set I've got for now. Maybe dropp another 2 psi front and back.

Running weir wolf front and rave king in he back. The race king is brand new and it came a little deformed with a wobble in it. Bugs me.


Dangerman76 said:


> I'm not familiar with Gorilla Tape. Does it have a cloth reinforcement layer?
> 
> If not, make sure to check the tape every few months. I've found that even the best tapes without a cloth layer (or other reinforcement) tend to slip or stretch down into the spoke holes over time. The failure mode isn't an issue, just a slow leak that gets worse and worse.
> 
> Enjoy the grip!


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Typing on iphone makes me look like a retard.



mmanuel09 said:


> I don't think the tape has the outer cloth but it is a really durable tape. I've used this in the past and all my set ups has never given me an issue.
> 
> I've had a week on these wheels now and I'm super impressed with the stiffness. Almost to stiff. I'm dropped to 24 psi on the front and 28 psi in the rear. I think it's still to stiff. A little nervous about dropping it more. It's the only wheel set I've got for now. Maybe dropp another 2 psi front and back.
> 
> Running weir wolf front and rave king in he back. The race king is brand new and it came a little deformed with a wobble in it. Bugs me.


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

*It's here*

I placed my order on 9/6/13 at night. Told it was shipped out on 9/14. My wheel and cage arrived today 9/21. Not bad considering where it came from. Just gotta wait for my spokes and nipples to arrive, then it's building time!

My 29er wide wheel weighs in a 380 grams.















My water bottle cage weighs in at 26 grams


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## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

Just got my rims ten days after ordering, they look beutiful. I have to say that all of my correspondance with Light-Bicycle has been extremely pleasant and courteous. They even sent a beutiful card wishing me pleasant autumn that was handwritten in Chinese and English. Great experience so far!


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## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

epiphreddy said:


> Are these the same as the LB rims?
> 29er Carbon Mountain Bike Rims 32 Holes Super Light Weight Tubeless Compatible | eBay


The surface of the inner aspect (where the spokes pop out) looks different than mine.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

epiphreddy said:


> Are these the same as the LB rims?
> 29er Carbon Mountain Bike Rims 32 Holes Super Light Weight Tubeless Compatible | eBay


No...


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

mmanuel09 said:


> Holy ****.............


My sentiments exactly.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

I am going to build up a set of these rims in 650B. I have used and beaten my 29er wheels and I am impressed. This time I am jumping into the I am going to build these wheels myself group. I have always used Sapim CX-rays for my nice wheels. I was about to place the order when I took a look at the Pillar Bladed spokes they offer. The price of the Pillar spoke is $1.60/spoke. Much cheaper than the $275 it costs me total for the Sapim. 

My question for the people who have built with these spokes or have prebuilt wheels with them. Any issues or quirks? Thats it, thanks for the info.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

spunkmtb said:


> I am going to build up a set of these rims in 650B. I have used and beaten my 29er wheels and I am impressed. This time I am jumping into the I am going to build these wheels myself group. I have always used Sapim CX-rays for my nice wheels. I was about to place the order when I took a look at the Pillar Bladed spokes they offer. The price of the Pillar spoke is $1.60/spoke. Much cheaper than the $275 it costs me total for the Sapim.
> 
> My question for the people who have built with these spokes or have prebuilt wheels with them. Any issues or quirks? Thats it, thanks for the info.


I was considering using the Pillar spokes but eventually went with the CX-Rays instead. Here are my reasons
1) Light-Bicycle only had like 2 different lengths available at the time(not sure if that has changed) so it was not possible to get the spokes in the lengths I wanted. bdopcycling.com didn't have a lot of different length psr-1422 spokes at the time either. I think they have more in stock now but their price is a little bit higher.
2) I use the Park Tool tensionmeter and the chart they have does not work for pillar spokes(the thickness of the bladed portion is different between pillar and sapim)
3) The spokes are almost impossible to find in the US so either get some extras in case you break spokes or you might have issues later on trying to get replacements if you need it.
Finally, You can get CX-Ray spokes for about $45-$47/bag of 20(only sold in 20 spoke increments) in the US so total cost is around $184 shipped(outsideoutfitters.com or treefortbikes.com)
If you are lucky and can use the same length spokes for front and back left and right, then you can lower your cost to about $160 by getting 3 bags of 20 spokes each(60 spokes total) and then buying like 6 more(2 for spares) individual spokes from bikehubstore.com bikehubstore also has pretty good prices on sapim polyax nipples. 
I've built 4 sets of the LB rims and the places listed above are the places where I found the lowest pricing and where I get my supplies for building wheels.

hope that helps.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

92gli said:


> One guy said he preferred the strips to tape like 2 years ago and people are still assuming they need them.


It was post #131 from 2012 where, even with tape, a blowoff of a Hans Dampf led to the Bonty Strip being used.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Lightbicycle changed their rim profile about ~6 months ago, dont know if these are the ones you's are talking about but apparently they made them with a better bead.

Mine are the previous ones, they are taped with 8898 strapping tape with no issues of blow off's.

Just depends on the tyres, some dont have a good seal due to larger circumference so its a case of suck it and see, if it doesn't work with your tyres, try rim strips.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> I was considering using the Pillar spokes but eventually went with the CX-Rays instead. Here are my reasons
> 1) Light-Bicycle only had like 2 different lengths available at the time(not sure if that has changed) so it was not possible to get the spokes in the lengths I wanted. bdopcycling.com didn't have a lot of different length psr-1422 spokes at the time either. I think they have more in stock now but their price is a little bit higher.
> 2) I use the Park Tool tensionmeter and the chart they have does not work for pillar spokes(the thickness of the bladed portion is different between pillar and sapim)
> 3) The spokes are almost impossible to find in the US so either get some extras in case you break spokes or you might have issues later on trying to get replacements if you need it.
> ...


Sapim spokes about $1 a piece.....
Search results for: 'Sapim CX-Ray'


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Mishtar said:


> Sapim spokes about $1 a piece.....
> Search results for: 'Sapim CX-Ray'


The description is somewhat misleading. They quote the weight for 64 spokes but the price listed is for a bag of 20. In the additional information section it says unit of measure is B/20.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Mishtar said:


> Sapim spokes about $1 a piece.....
> Search results for: 'Sapim CX-Ray'


I already purchased from a different vendor. I needed two lengths. 274 & 276. Two bags of each length. Total shipped was $180. That's the best price I have found so far. I got my nipples on Amazon. The Rims will be shipped in a few days.


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## joe77bike (Jul 2, 2012)

Is there any good of running wide carbon tubulars?
Do you guys use mtb carbon tubulars?
Can share some idea or expenrience?


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> The description is somewhat misleading. They quote the weight for 64 spokes but the price listed is for a bag of 20. In the additional information section it says unit of measure is B/20.


Good catch, I am glad I had not ordered them yet!


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

LB is preparing a hookless 29er rim design. I'm very interested since they would seem likely to be more durable. Nancy said they should be ready in a few weeks.

Here's the rim profile she sent:
View attachment 29er 27W-24D 20130807 Model.pdf


Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 4


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## truongasaurus (May 10, 2013)

Are there any downsides to a hookless rim design?


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## blum585 (Mar 28, 2012)

There is something about the hookless design that I will never understand? How does a tire really not come unseated?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

joe77bike said:


> Is there any good of running wide carbon tubulars?
> Do you guys use mtb carbon tubulars?
> Can share some idea or expenrience?


Check your PMs.


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

I'd be interested in the idea of some Chinese tubulars too.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

blum585 said:


> There is something about the hookless design that I will never understand? How does a tire really not come unseated?


the same way you can drive a car and ride a motorcycle and the tires stays on.....


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Car and motorcycle tires have locking beads.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> Car and motorcycle tires have locking beads.


love to hear this one. More detail please.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Have you ever watched as they use a tire machine to peel a bead off the seat of the rim? That is because the shape of the rim and the bead seat of the tire lock the tire to the rim with a great deal of force required to unseat it. You can literally stand and stomp on car and motorcycle tires and not unseat the bead in most cases. Semi truck tires-forget it; the only way to get them of is with very long tire irons or a machine. You have obviously never tried to swap a tire on a rim in a modern motorcycle or car or truck. I do have a Model T and those tires are not as well seated. Maybe that is what you are referring to.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

By the way TwoTone; I see we both have 5 MTB's WE are in a rare club so to speak. My current fleet: 2012 Jet9, 2009 Sir9 full rigid Dingle Speed, 2010 One9 SS hardtail, 2013 Air9Carbon SS hardtail, 2012 Air9 hardtail.

Yea I know my signature says 4 Niners, but I am lazy to change it and also I just built up an EMD extra small for my 12 year old son so is it 5 Niners or 6 Niners? Who cares.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

yourdaguy said:


> Have you ever watched as they use a tire machine to peel a bead off the seat of the rim? That is because the shape of the rim and the bead seat of the tire lock the tire to the rim with a great deal of force required to unseat it. You can literally stand and stomp on car and motorcycle tires and not unseat the bead in most cases. Semi truck tires-forget it; the only way to get them of is with very long tire irons or a machine. You have obviously never tried to swap a tire on a rim in a modern motorcycle or car or truck. I do have a Model T and those tires are not as well seated. Maybe that is what you are referring to.


The problem is that what you are talking about is the bead seat ridge & others are talking about the bead hook that most MTB rims have had.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes it is true that the general method for tire retention in MTB is a hook to the bead and the retention of motor vehicle tires is to have a tall area just inside where the bead sits. if you read back,I was answering SandSpur who said: the same way you can drive a car and ride a motorcycle and the tires stays on....
And I said "Car and Motorcycle tires have locking beads"
So I thought I was clarifying, but apparently I was confusing someone. In other words, I was commenting that the beads in motor vehicles have a raised area just inside of the place where the bead sits that prevents/locks it from moving inward and coming unseated. Most bike rims have a hook that unless it is UST type mostly only keep it from blowing off and not so much from moving inward. The UST wheels have a more square shaped channel in the hook and the tire has a same shaped rubber band around the tire that is actually a press fit into that square shaped channel area of the bead.


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a carbon wheelset from LB. Can anyone tell me if the Novatec D882 rear hub is compatible, or can be converted, to XX1? Might be a deal breaker.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

gfowkes said:


> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a carbon wheelset from LB. Can anyone tell me if the Novatec D882 rear hub is compatible, or can be converted, to XX1? Might be a deal breaker.


I don't think so, I got the D882 and if I remember right, they said no XD body at Novatec yet. You can go double-check on Novatec website if they offer this new feature, but I highly doubt they will do so in a short to mid term period. Maybe later, never know.


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

David C said:


> I don't think so, I got the D882 and if I remember right, they said no XD body at Novatec yet. You can go double-check on Novatec website if they offer this new feature, but I highly doubt they will do so in a short to mid term period. Maybe later, never know.


Several months ago I read somewhere that Novatec plans to offer XD body, but no idea on the timing. For my LB wheelset I picked Hope hubs to be able to use XD drive, which can be purchased from many places.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> Have you ever watched as they use a tire machine to peel a bead off the seat of the rim? That is because the shape of the rim and the bead seat of the tire lock the tire to the rim with a great deal of force required to unseat it. You can literally stand and stomp on car and motorcycle tires and not unseat the bead in most cases. Semi truck tires-forget it; the only way to get them of is with very long tire irons or a machine. You have obviously never tried to swap a tire on a rim in a modern motorcycle or car or truck. I do have a Model T and those tires are not as well seated. Maybe that is what you are referring to.


Actually, I have tried (and successfully) changed motorcycle tires in my garage using the two 2x4 method from webbikeworld (im also a semi active member of advrider.com)

The hookless designs of these MTB rims have a raised area which, when inflating the tire, stretches and forces the tire over the raised area. Check out some of the derby rim threads and youll find people having a very hard time unseating their beads, to the point they question if theyd be able to do it trailside in the event theyd have to add a tube.


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## Nic688 (Apr 21, 2010)

Just purchased my 29er wide rims from LB, going to pair with a extralite hyperJ 15mm front hub and a tune kong 142x12 XD rear hub on cx-ray spokes and dt alloy nipples. Should be a nice stiff wheelset that's wide and under 1400 grams.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> Have you ever watched as they use a tire machine to peel a bead off the seat of the rim? That is because the shape of the rim and the bead seat of the tire lock the tire to the rim with a great deal of force required to unseat it. You can literally stand and stomp on car and motorcycle tires and not unseat the bead in most cases. Semi truck tires-forget it; the only way to get them of is with very long tire irons or a machine. You have obviously never tried to swap a tire on a rim in a modern motorcycle or car or truck. I do have a Model T and those tires are not as well seated. Maybe that is what you are referring to.


I was a tech for over 10 years, I've mounted hundreds of tires. There is nothing locking about it. Its friction plain and simple. Why do you think in drag racing and off road they drive screws in the the tire to keep the wheel from spinning inside the tire?


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## Nic688 (Apr 21, 2010)

TwoTone said:


> I was a tech for over 10 years, I've mounted hundreds of tires. There is nothing locking about it. Its friction plain and simple. Why do you think in drag racing and off road they drive screws in the the tire to keep the wheel from spinning inside the tire?


Technically the bead lock on off road cars is so they can run lower pressures. Just wait another few years and it will be on MTBs at the speed that like to bring out new technology and standards. Run 8 psi down the trails. Then they'll be building micro air compressors into hubs and running air through spokes to auto inflate and deflate tyres for diff terrains.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

gfowkes said:


> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a carbon wheelset from LB. Can anyone tell me if the Novatec D882 rear hub is compatible, or can be converted, to XX1? Might be a deal breaker.


Yup you can get them from Wheels-Parts.

Wheels-Parts

"***The D712SB the D712SB-11 and the D882SB will accept SRAM xx1. ***"


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

In2falling said:


> Yup you can get them from Wheels-Parts.
> 
> Wheels-Parts
> 
> "***The D712SB the D712SB-11 and the D882SB will accept SRAM xx1. ***"


Thanks, that's great news.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

SandSpur said:


> Actually, I have tried (and successfully) changed motorcycle tires in my garage using the two 2x4 method from webbikeworld (im also a semi active member of advrider.com)
> 
> The hookless designs of these MTB rims have a raised area which, when inflating the tire, stretches and forces the tire over the raised area. Check out some of the derby rim threads and youll find people having a very hard time unseating their beads, to the point they question if theyd be able to do it trailside in the event theyd have to add a tube.


It sounds like you are describing some of the newer rims out there that have a raised area inside of where the bead sits against the sidewall of the rim. Some seem to be sloped and some have a lip. Either style w/ a hookless rim "seems" like it should be very successful avoiding a burp. I don't know if LB is designing their new rim to have this feature, but it sure would give me more confidence in a hookless rim, whether it is necessary or not. Andy


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/l737wluvb5keaum/hWptCuGbU_

Photo of a Silverado rim. Notice the raised area on both sides just inside where the flat part of the bead sits. All motor vehicle tires and wheels in the US have this system it is a federal regulation even.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/l737wluvb5keaum/hWptCuGbU_
> 
> Photo of a Silverado rim. Notice the raised area on both sides just inside where the flat part of the bead sits. All motor vehicle tires and wheels in the US have this system it is a federal regulation even.


safety bead...

Now, take a look at the profile of my hookless derby rim...


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I know Derby uses the same system as motor vehicles. I know most MTB rims don't use that system. I have tried to clarify this, but apparently I am not getting through.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> I know Derby uses the same system as motor vehicles. I know most MTB rims don't use that system. I have tried to clarify this, but apparently I am not getting through.


the confusion came in when you called it a locking bead.. when there is actually a system called a "bead Lock" Beadlock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which is different than a safety bead.

and 2) we know most MTB rims dont use this, but you replied to my post which was a post for someone else not understanding why hookless designs work

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/cheap-chinese-carbon-rims-673410-175.html#post10708654


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

All I know is that I just charged a technical downhill to ditch to flat and came up second out of 39 on Strava. On a hard tail. These rims are fast as are all carbon rims.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

robgall13 said:


> I'd be interested in the idea of some Chinese tubulars too.


Bikehubstore.com has 25mm wide carbon tubulars.

You can also buy DT Swiss XRC 950T rims on ebay. They are listed as 26" rims, but if you PM the seller, he has 29" rims as well.


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

Sweet! Thanks!



In2falling said:


> Yup you can get them from Wheels-Parts.
> 
> Wheels-Parts
> 
> "***The D712SB the D712SB-11 and the D882SB will accept SRAM xx1. ***"


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

TedS123 said:


> LB is preparing a hookless 29er rim design. I'm very interested since they would seem likely to be more durable. Nancy said they should be ready in a few weeks.
> 
> Here's the rim profile she sent:
> View attachment 835126
> ...


After doing a little searching, the LB hookless rim looks similar to the Roval hookless rim - same inner and outer width and similar shape - which gives me some confidence that they should work as well in terms of holding tires on.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 4


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## BrianBak (Apr 11, 2011)

How to modify your rims if you are having trouble running them tubeless. http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/diy-bead-lock-you-rims-879062.html#post10714420


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

BrianBak said:


> How to modify your rims if you are having trouble running them tubeless. http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/diy-bead-lock-you-rims-879062.html#post10714420


Cool idea, ideally light bicycle would manufacture this into the rim. Although, you could just buy the bontrager rim strips and the bead lock will be taken care of. There are a number of people in this thread who like to discredit the bontrager strips, however they do provide the bead lock and turn the rims into more of a UST-ish system. I've been racing on a pair this entire season, even landed sideways on my front rim during a fairly high speed crash and the setup didn't burp. No burping allowed me to finish the remaining 3.5 out of 4 laps in that race with a good result. Prior to that, when I took them to the shop to have a broken nip replaced the mechanic had a hard time unseating the tire even after all air was removed. The bontrager strips are worth it IMO, especially since I'd consider them re-usable. I had to remove one to replace the broken nip, re-mounted the strip and re-sealed the tire with no problems. I'm to the point where I trust this tubeless setup more than the stans setup I had been running for years prior.


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## BrianBak (Apr 11, 2011)

tiflow_21 said:


> Cool idea, ideally light bicycle would manufacture this into the rim. Although, you could just buy the bontrager rim strips and the bead lock will be taken care of. There are a number of people in this thread who like to discredit the bontrager strips, however they do provide the bead lock and turn the rims into more of a UST-ish system. I've been racing on a pair this entire season, even landed sideways on my front rim during a fairly high speed crash and the setup didn't burp. No burping allowed me to finish the remaining 3.5 out of 4 laps in that race with a good result. Prior to that, when I took them to the shop to have a broken nip replaced the mechanic had a hard time unseating the tire even after all air was removed. The bontrager strips are worth it IMO, especially since I'd consider them re-usable. I had to remove one to replace the broken nip, re-mounted the strip and re-sealed the tire with no problems. I'm to the point where I trust this tubeless setup more than the stans setup I had been running for years prior.


The bontrager strips are good. I have been running them myself for a while. There is nothing that hold air better than with those. What was the reason to try this instead was that I was not able to remove the tires with my fingers and some tires where difficult to mount even with tools. I am primarily running lightweight XC tires and get flats often which means i need to be able to get the tire of when I am out riding. Furthermore, I change tires according to the weather. I live in Denmark where the weather change a lot so I that means I change tires a lot


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

BrianBak said:


> The bontrager strips are good. I have been running them myself for a while. There is nothing that hold air better than with those. What was the reason to try this instead was that I was not able to remove the tires with my fingers and some tires where difficult to mount even with tools. I am primarily running lightweight XC tires and get flats often which means i need to be able to get the tire of when I am out riding. Furthermore, I change tires according to the weather. I live in Denmark where the weather change a lot so I that means I change tires a lot


I agree, the tires are harder to get on/off with the bontrager rim strips due to the extra material taking up a little extra space in the rim bed. At first I thought it was impossible to mount racing ralphs, but found that with ideal mounting technique they go on tightly. Good news is once they're on they're very secure and tires usually air up with a floor pump. I've mounted/dismounted/re-mounted a number of tires, after getting the technique down it's not so bad. When mounting tires just make sure to start opposite of the valve stem.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Got my wide rims this morning. First impression is excellent. From the packaging quality to the finishing of the rims. I'm glad I waited this long, because these things appear to be perfect.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

92gli said:


> Got my wide rims this morning. First impression is excellent. From the packaging quality to the finishing of the rims. I'm glad I waited this long, because these things appear to be perfect.


I wanted these things so bad before my 24hr race this weekend but they still haven't arrived in the mail  they shipped sept 27th so I think I've still got awhile to wait but that doesn't mean I'm not checking my front door and usps web tracking every chance I get.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

RojoRacing53 said:


> I wanted these things so bad before my 24hr race this weekend but they still haven't arrived in the mail  they shipped sept 27th so I think I've still got awhile to wait but that doesn't mean I'm not checking my front door and usps web tracking every chance I get.


Better hope they got out of China by October 1st.. Apparently the whole country went on vacation for a week starting that day..


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

I have been running my LB wheels now for 6 months (1000 miles) on my Nomad, which I had built out by LB with Novatec hubs (882/811). The rims and hubs are holding up really well, but just had to rebuild them because of a galvanic corrosion issues with the aluminum nipples.

Lost 2 spokes on one ride on the rear and ended up just respoking the rear wheel. The corrosion on the nipples was so bad on the rear that the ends of quite a few of the nipples were almost completely disintegrated. 

If you are running aluminum nipples keep a sharp eye out for any signs of corrosion and swap them out with brass if you see any corrosion. Guess this a fairly common issue with carbon rims and aluminum nipples.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

And when I pointed out the potential for galvanic corrosion 2000 posts ago, a bunch of people beat me up and told me they had never heard of such a thing with carbon wheels and aluminum nipples. I used ti-prep/copper never seize dabbed into each spoke hole on my last set so I will have a data point. So far, even my first set is looking good, but I always lubed my spoke holes for easier building so possibly the grease is preventing good conduction between the nipples and rim. I have posted this before, but if you take a chopstick and dab a little never seize in each spoke hole before you start your build, it makes the build easier and should prevent this for a long time. The downside is that it can be messy if you are not careful to wipe off the nipples after you get everything laced and before you start truing.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

In2falling said:


> I have been running my LB wheels now for 6 months (1000 miles) on my Nomad, which I had built out by LB with Novatec hubs (882/811). The rims and hubs are holding up really well, but just had to rebuild them because of a galvanic corrosion issues with the aluminum nipples.
> 
> Lost 2 spokes on one ride on the rear and ended up just respoking the rear wheel. The corrosion on the nipples was so bad on the rear that the ends of quite a few of the nipples were almost completely disintegrated.
> 
> If you are running aluminum nipples keep a sharp eye out for any signs of corrosion and swap them out with brass if you see any corrosion. Guess this a fairly common issue with carbon rims and aluminum nipples.


Since the Pillar Spokes & Nipples that they use are (Not sure of the word I am looking for here) cheaper, perhaps poorer quality (again not sure but you have to wonder I asked them for the individual prices. I think the spokes were about 80 cents a piece). Could that have something to do with it? Or perhaps a lack of attention from the wheel builder that they use?


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

spunkmtb said:


> Since the Pillar Spokes & Nipples that they use are (Not sure of the word I am looking for here) cheaper, perhaps poorer quality (again not sure but you have to wonder I asked them for the individual prices. I think the spokes were about 80 cents a piece). Could that have something to do with it? Or perhaps a lack of attention from the wheel builder that they use?


Doing research Enve has/had the same corrosion issues with their rims/wheels and the were using aluminum Pillar nipples. This just appears to be a known issue.

As yourdaguy stated coating the aluminum nipple seats/spoke hole with anti-seize or grease could/probably greatly slow down the process. I coated the new brass replacement nipples silicon grease.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have never used Pillar nipples and don't know if they are anodized or how well. I know that DT nipples even the silver ones are deeply anodized and I have not had this problem with them until many years out. Anodizing would tend to slow the process down in addition to grease of never seize.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

are any of the china carbon clinchers ok for cx? I see the light bicycle rims are 21mm wide so I assume these would work?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

yourdaguy said:


> I have never used Pillar nipples and don't know if they are anodized or how well. I know that DT nipples even the silver ones are deeply anodized and I have not had this problem with them until many years out. Anodizing would tend to slow the process down in addition to grease of never seize.


YMMV, but I've found that anti-seize tends to turn gummy after being exposed to the elements for a while. It might give you some trouble when truing down the road.

I always build with Phil tenacious oil on the spokes and for these rims I'm using brass nipples.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have had that problem with the silver never seize but the copper stuff seems to go on for a long time with no issues. Up until the last time I used the copper never seize I generally used a high quality silicone grease for nipple holes. If it turns out that I have no or little corrosion from the first 2 sets built that way then I won't bother with copper never seize. If, however, it does a better job, then I am switching for future builds.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Zachua said:


> are any of the china carbon clinchers ok for cx? I see the light bicycle rims are 21mm wide so I assume these would work?


If truly for CX, why not tubulars? If you want an all around training and gravel road racer then clinchers make sense.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

So I just got in my wider 29" rims and they look awesom as do the seat post and bottle cages as well. Now I just need to get the ERD measured and figure out what length Cx-Ray spokes to order. I'm using industry nine classic hubs and the rear is the single speed style. If I use a 602 ERD the dt Swiss calculator is telling me front left is 291 and the right is 294, On the rear its saying 292 for both sides. For the 291-292 lengths ill just use the same length but I guess I'll be using a different size for the front right size. 

Has anyone built up a set of these with Indusry nine classic hubs. I know I still need to measure my ERD for an exact measurement but if someone has built a set of I9 hubs before then they could tell me the difference between the two lengths that they chose and how it worked out.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

Adroit Rider said:


> If truly for CX, why not tubulars? If you want an all around training and gravel road racer then clinchers make sense.


I'm just out there to have fun and I like the convenience of clinchers.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Built my front wheel last night. You guys who said that these were easy to work with weren't kidding. They needed very little adjustment as I brought up the tension. I don't want to build with an aluminum rim ever again.


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## Phil S (Mar 12, 2008)

Just to echo what has already been said many times here:

I ordered 4 pairs of the rims from Nancy at light-bicycle - excellent fast service. My rims were 28h UD glossy wider 29ers (new process) and they looked well made with no faults upon delivery.

I had my LBS (who also make their own hubs) build them up with Sapim race spokes on their Goldtech Pro Comp hubs (nice and stiff 48 POE hubs with enduro bearings and made in house at my LBS)

Total weight was 1520g (without valves or strips). I then added the Bontrager Rhythm TLR strips (symmetric versions) and the matching Bontrager tubeless valves which all fitted absolutely perfectly. Fitting up the Shwalbe tyres was a breeze and provided a much more secure fit that the previous tubeless rims/conversions I have used. They held air while still in the centre channel and then fired over to the bead hooks reassuringly well. They were holding air before I'd even added the sealant - I can't see any chance of burping these!

Riding wise, I could immediately tell that the front wheel was way stiffer than the lightweight alloy rim I was using before (WTB Stryker Race). Down rocky lines the bike held a line instead of feeling like it was steering into any channel and when weighting up the front wheel in bermed corners it also felt way stiffer and in general more confidence inspiring. I couldn't tell as much difference with the rear wheel (although I was already running a Ritchey WCS carbon on the back).

Overall, very happy!

Here they are fitted (from the Lapierre thread) I'm also loving the black rims, black hubs and silver spokes look after several years of 'all black'.


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

People say that aluminium nipples corode when mixed with carbon rims, does this happen with LB's rims? If so how long does it take to occur roughly? Anyway to get round this?

I just wondering because apparently 64 aluminium nipples are only about 20g while 64 brass are 65g. Quite a difference...


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

robgall13 said:


> I just wondering because apparently 64 aluminium nipples are only about 20g while 64 brass are 65g. Quite a difference...


Ha! Do you know what 45g costs you in an uphill 10km TT?

If you are at a level where the time savings makes a difference in your paycheck and you get multiple sets of new wheels every year then aluminum nipples are fine.


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

Not the answer I wanted but whatever...


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

Adroit Rider said:


> Ha! Do you know what 45g costs you in an uphill 10km TT?
> 
> If you are at a level where the time savings makes a difference in your paycheck and you get multiple sets of new wheels every year then aluminum nipples are fine.


if I was at the level where the time savings makes a difference in my paycheck I wouldnt be in the "cheap chinese carbon rims" thread....


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Maybe one of the best quotes for 2013!!


SandSpur said:


> if I was at the level where the time savings makes a difference in my paycheck I wouldnt be in the "cheap chinese carbon rims" thread....


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## HouseNotes (Aug 18, 2012)

+1^:thumbsup:


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## agu (Jun 22, 2007)

Anyone got a comparison photo of tire profiles on the 30mm carbon rims and a typical XC rim (25mm?) or even a Blunt 35?

And just a heads up...according to Nancy, a 33mm wide, 30mm deep 29er rim will be ready in a few months. They'll launch the 650B variant first.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

agu said:


> Anyone got a comparison photo of tire profiles on the 30mm carbon rims and a typical XC rim (25mm?) or even a Blunt 35?
> 
> And just a heads up...according to Nancy, a 33mm wide, 30mm deep 29er rim will be ready in a few months. They'll launch the 650B variant first.


Will that 33 mm wide rim be clincher or hookless?

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 4


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

TedS123 said:


> Will that 33 mm wide rim be clincher or hookless


Is that an interior 33mm measurement? What is the interior measurement?


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## agu (Jun 22, 2007)

I'd assume it's the same profile as their 33mm 26er offering, but I'm not sure if it's hookless.


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## dbigfot111 (Nov 12, 2012)

How is everyones prebuilt wheelset with novatec holding up?


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

dbigfot111 said:


> How is everyones prebuilt wheelset with novatec holding up?


I've got about 700 miles on mine so far. ~230 of that was a 7-day ride across Colorado/Utah. The only problem I've had so far is two broken nipples, and that was from my dumb ass accidentally knocking the wheel against concrete steps carrying it out the door. No problems with the hubs or rims. I have the D881 15mm and D882 12mm setup.

On thing though, I can't get replacement spokes or nipples. I've tried contacting light-bicycle and they won't sell me replacement parts. I even offered to order a quantity of them.


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## dbigfot111 (Nov 12, 2012)

so the hubs and hoops still true and good condition? how did you end up getting replacement if you cant get replacement parts from LB? i'm assuming you can order it on through alternative websites or LBS?


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

dbigfot111 said:


> so the hubs and hoops still true and good condition? how did you end up getting replacement if you cant get replacement parts from LB? i'm assuming you can order it on through alternative websites or LBS?


Everything is still true and in great shape. I ended up getting two nipples from a friend who works at a LBS. Not the exact same thing I had, but they worked. I'd still like to buy the exact spokes and nipples just so I have some extras around here. But I can't find anyone who sells them.


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## Dangerman76 (Apr 26, 2010)

*Spoke Nipples - seen one, almost seen them all.*

My Novatec hubs on LB rims have been good, true, strong. I have managed to break almost all the spoke nipples on the disc side of my front wheel, however, that is a common failure for alloy nipples. Alloy has rather low ?tensile? strength (needed to oppose the forces that try to pull the spoke nipple apart). I heard this from Neuvation owner John Neugent in his blog:



> Alloy nipples save a lot of weight - about a gram a nipple. For most sets of wheels you will save anywhere from 36-50 grams. But because it is rotating weight multiply it by two to determine its functional weight (a term I just coined).
> 
> But the fact is that on about 3-5% of drive side rear wheels - the alloy nipples will crack and cracking a nipple is even more frustrating than it sounds. We have never seen a cracked alloy nipple on a front wheel and it's almost the same number on the non drive side of the rear wheel. For this reason we use brass nipples on the drive side of all our alloy wheels.


Replacements? 


hidperf said:


> I ended up getting two nipples from a friend who works at a LBS. Not the exact same thing I had, but they worked. I'd still like to buy the exact spokes and nipples just so I have some extras around here. But I can't find anyone who sells them.


Try eBay! Seriously, even if the brand isn't the same, there are only a few ways to make a 14mm spoke nipple with a square profile. 
Pillar PB14 Spoke Nipples Black Brass 12mm NEW | eBay

My shop wanted $3/ nipple (I needed 5). eBay ones cost me the same amount, $15, but I got 50, yes, 50 of them for that price. Goodbye LBS...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Brass nipples are good. Alloy nipples are so so, you can absolutely get a good tight wheel with them, but down the road when things get knocked out a little and you need to tune/true your wheel just a bit, they can be corroded and easily seize/crack and they simply just can't take as much stress/strain as brass, so you may not have "perfectly" even tension anymore, but you can usually get a nice true wheel out of the operating range of brass nipples, not so with aluminum alloy, you'll usually round them right out. 

They used to make spline-drive aluminum nipples years ago. Those were a good idea. 

I'll probably build a wheel again with alloy nipples at some point, but another VERY good and oft-overlooked point is brought up above, the rear wheel sees more stress than the front. You can get away with a lighter front rim, lighter front spokes, simply a slightly "weaker" build, and have a good reliable front wheel. If you're going to build a good reliable rear wheel, building the front exactly the same is overkill. Because of cost, building and buying in bulk and logistics, no one usually builds front and rear wheels different (like alloy on one, brass or partial brass on the other), but in an optimal world with optimal materials, your front wheel build would have slightly less spokes and be slightly "weaker" than the rear, and both wheels would put up with the same amount of abuse.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

agu said:


> I'd assume it's the same profile as their 33mm 26er offering, but I'm not sure if it's hookless.


If hookless it should have the raised 'channel' to prevent burping next to the lip like automotive wheels.


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## mattgVT (Nov 9, 2010)

Anyone seen or purchased these yet?
YISHUNBIKE MTB Carbon Rims DownHill 29er 35mm wide width 23.5mm Tubuless [dh29c]


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Dangerman76 said:


> Replacements?
> 
> Try eBay! Seriously, even if the brand isn't the same, there are only a few ways to make a 14mm spoke nipple with a square profile.
> Pillar PB14 Spoke Nipples Black Brass 12mm NEW | eBay
> ...


I looked at ebay also, but I don't know enough about wheel building or components and I didn't know what/if anything was different about them. 
And I'm trying to buy extra spokes too but I can't find anyone who sells the exact spokes my wheels are supposedly built with. I figured the place that built my wheels (light bike) would sell me some, but that's not the case. 
I found a supplier on Aliexpress but never got a reply from them either. 
Luckily my buddy didn't charge me for the nipples so I'm not out anything yet, but I always like to have extra parts around just in case.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

hidperf said:


> I looked at ebay also, but I don't know enough about wheel building or components and I didn't know what/if anything was different about them.
> And I'm trying to buy extra spokes too but I can't find anyone who sells the exact spokes my wheels are supposedly built with. I figured the place that built my wheels (light bike) would sell me some, but that's not the case.
> I found a supplier on Aliexpress but never got a reply from them either.
> Luckily my buddy didn't charge me for the nipples so I'm not out anything yet, but I always like to have extra parts around just in case.


If it becomes more than a minor problem replace all of them with nipples that you can source locally.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

mattgVT said:


> Anyone seen or purchased these yet?
> YISHUNBIKE MTB Carbon Rims DownHill 29er 35mm wide width 23.5mm Tubuless [dh29c]
> View attachment 838075


Nope, are you wiling to be the test monkey?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

hidperf said:


> I looked at ebay also, but I don't know enough about wheel building or components and I didn't know what/if anything was different about them.
> And I'm trying to buy extra spokes too but I can't find anyone who sells the exact spokes my wheels are supposedly built with. I figured the place that built my wheels (light bike) would sell me some, but that's not the case.
> I found a supplier on Aliexpress but never got a reply from them either.
> Luckily my buddy didn't charge me for the nipples so I'm not out anything yet, but I always like to have extra parts around just in case.


Try this place:
Pillar-Spokes

This place is in Taiwan. No idea how good the service is since I've never actually ordered anything from them. But its the only place I've found that sells different length Pillar PSR1422 spokes.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Jayem: with disc brakes the front spokes/nipples that stop the bike actually get as high loads as the rear drive nipples/spokes. What you are saying is totally true for rim brakes, but doesn't hold up with disc brakes.

Also, a general comment: I think building with aluminum nipples can be a benefit since when you get a branch or something stuck in the spokes, instead of the nipple pulling through the rim, the nipple breaks and the rim is saved. Brass nipples generally have higher tensile strength than the rims pull through limit but for most rims, alloy nipples will break first saving the rim and of the 3 things, nipple, spoke, rim; the nipple is the easiest to find replacement for and fix.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

In case someone is interested, I got a few Pillar 12mm black alloy nipples left (over 32 at least) and a bit more of DT 12mm gold alloy too. I'd do them $0.50 each for DT gold and $0.30 each for the Pillar black. Shipping is on me for anywhere North America (Canada&USA). The Pillar nipples came straight from LB along with my Pillar X-TRA 1420 spokes. I'm just using brass instead, so I don't need them.

PM me for more info.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

pwu_1 said:


> Try this place:
> Pillar-Spokes
> 
> This place is in Taiwan. No idea how good the service is since I've never actually ordered anything from them. But its the only place I've found that sells different length Pillar PSR1422 spokes.


I used them twice now and ordered whole new set of spokes and brass nipples to rebuild my LB wheels. They ship everything very fast.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> Try this place:
> Pillar-Spokes
> 
> This place is in Taiwan. No idea how good the service is since I've never actually ordered anything from them. But its the only place I've found that sells different length Pillar PSR1422 spokes.


I'll try them again. I've already emailed them once and never got a reply. 
thanks!



yourdaguy said:


> Also, a general comment: I think building with aluminum nipples can be a benefit since when you get a branch or something stuck in the spokes, instead of the nipple pulling through the rim, the nipple breaks and the rim is saved. Brass nipples generally have higher tensile strength than the rims pull through limit but for most rims, alloy nipples will break first saving the rim and of the 3 things, nipple, spoke, rim; the nipple is the easiest to find replacement for and fix.


that's a great point. I'm actually glad I only broke the nipples and not spokes or did any rim damage.


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## Dangerman76 (Apr 26, 2010)

*Great service*



pwu_1 said:


> Try this place:
> Pillar-Spokes
> 
> This place is in Taiwan. No idea how good the service is since I've never actually ordered anything from them. But its the only place I've found that sells different length Pillar PSR1422 spokes.


I'll vouch for them no problem. When I bought stuff, communication was quick, got what I ordered. Once, there was a delay in getting stock - they offered a full refund or I could wait and, most importantly, they contacted me telling me all this (something my LBS still has trouble understanding and doing).


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## dbigfot111 (Nov 12, 2012)

i'm currently riding highballc (12x142mm) with shimano drive train, do you guys think novatec hub will fit my rear wheels?


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## joe77bike (Jul 2, 2012)

coldmirow said:


> is there also a tubolar-type of those chinese carbon rims?


I found this seller have tubular rims.
29er Tubular Rims - 29er 30mm Wide Carbon MTB Mountain Bike Tubular Rims 30mm Yoeleo

And I am also considering some tubular rims.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Got my first ride in yesterday with the rims. Really surprised at how much snappier the bike feels in transitions and the improvement in steering precision. 

I did notice during the ride that I burped the rear tire on roots a few times. I didn't hear it, and I didn't notice any pressure loss, but there was some spots where sealant had squirted out. Part of the problem is the specialized ground control sidewalls are so wimpy, but I also used the narrow stan's tape cause thats all I had on hand. I need to get tape that goes from edge to edge I guess, maybe do 2 layers to give the specialized bead some support. The front wheel, with a nobby nic, was harder to mount and didn't burp at all.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Edit - bloodsuckers charged me $15 to ship 2 rolls of tape one state over :madmax:


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

92gli said:


> Part of the problem is the specialized ground control sidewalls are so wimpy, but I also used the narrow stan's tape cause thats all I had on hand. I need to get tape that goes from edge to edge I guess, maybe do 2 layers to give the specialized bead some support.


I've been able to rectify this exact problem (w/specialized tires) by just using Gorilla tape instead. I have a roll of the 3M blue tape from R.S. Hughes which measures approx 0.13mm thick, vs. Gorilla tape being approx 0.43mm thick. So one layer of Gorilla tape will give you more thickness than 3 layers of the blue 3M tape.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

NoCoMTB said:


> I've been able to rectify this exact problem (w/specialized tires) by just using Gorilla tape instead. I have a roll of the 3M blue tape from R.S. Hughes which measures approx 0.13mm thick, vs. Gorilla tape being approx 0.43mm thick. So one layer of Gorilla tape will give you more thickness than 3 layers of the blue 3M tape.


I hear ya. But I've had bad results with the gorilla. The edge have lifted on me and filled my rim with sealant. Or the tire pushed the edge up. Just don't think the gooey adheasive plays well with sealant.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

92gli said:


> I hear ya. But I've had bad results with the gorilla. The edge have lifted on me and filled my rim with sealant. Or the tire pushed the edge up. Just don't think the gooey adheasive plays well with sealant.


Interesting to see how people's experiences differ. I almost added to my last comment that I've had much better luck with the gorilla tape adhering than the Stan's or 3M. I've had the issue you're describing with both varieties, though much less frequently with Gorilla. After installing the tape, I like to go around the rim with a tire lever or other hard plastic tool and make sure the tape is pressed down really firmly, especially in the corners, and then I'll throw a tube in it and leave it [over] inflated for a bit - time permitting. Seems to really help it stay put. All of the above with a very well cleaned rim surface, too.


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## dbigfot111 (Nov 12, 2012)

i'm currently riding highballc (12x142mm) with shimano drive train, do you guys think novatec hub will fit my rear wheels?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

dbigfot111 said:


> i'm currently riding highballc (12x142mm) with shimano drive train, do you guys think novatec hub will fit my rear wheels?


Your wheels already have hubs.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

shiggy said:


> Your wheels already have hubs.


I had to read shiggy's reply a few times before it made sense to me -- I think he is pointing out that your bike already has wheels, so as long as you get Novatec hubs that are the same as your current hubs (i.e., 12x142), that the LB wheels with Novatec should work.

I would point out that the price and weight quoted on the LB wheels are not for 12x142 rear axles or 15mm/20mm front axles -- if you need / want the different axles, they weigh and cost more. It has been a while since I looked, but if you start the process of purchasing a wheelset, there will be a point where you have to select hubs -- the pricing sheet indicates the extra cost and the weight of the hubs. I do not think the prices were very much, but for my bike that has a 15mm thru on the frt and 12x142 rear, the wheels were going to weigh an additional 100-150 grams.


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

*Light-Bicycle Wider Carbon Mountain 29er rim w/ internal nipples*

Hello All 

Just finished a set of LB wheels with internal nipples - so far so good 

Rim with spoke hole for internal nipples


Rim laced with Sapim CX Ray




Sapim Inverted Nipple 8.5 mm w/ spoke washers






Two wheels and SEVEN bikes




Ciao

ebsilon


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

I've noticed several posts that mention the gorilla tape or yellow tape not adhering. 

One suggestion. After taping the rims (but before putting valves in) mount up your tires with tubes and go ride or let them sit over night. The tube pressure-seats the tape. I've used this technique and have never had a problem with tape not sticking. Oh, and be sure the rim is clean and dry....

My issue with gorilla tape: the residue it leaves behind if/when you remove it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - hence the typos...


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I haven't heard of any nipples pulling through the LB rims, but do the internal nipples theoretically make the wheels less susceptible to this? Truing the wheels would be a pain in the ass (obviously). I've always heard that one of the benefits of Enve rims are that the carbon is laid up around the spoke holes instead of having them drilled like LB, and all the other manufacturers. Again, I haven't seen nipples pulling through the rim as a common failure. I'm just not sure it would be worth the hassle for little or no benefit, although they look awesome.


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## dbigfot111 (Nov 12, 2012)

journey said:


> I had to read shiggy's reply a few times before it made sense to me -- I think he is pointing out that your bike already has wheels, so as long as you get Novatec hubs that are the same as your current hubs (i.e., 12x142), that the LB wheels with Novatec should work.
> 
> I would point out that the price and weight quoted on the LB wheels are not for 12x142 rear axles or 15mm/20mm front axles -- if you need / want the different axles, they weigh and cost more. It has been a while since I looked, but if you start the process of purchasing a wheelset, there will be a point where you have to select hubs -- the pricing sheet indicates the extra cost and the weight of the hubs. I do not think the prices were very much, but for my bike that has a 15mm thru on the frt and 12x142 rear, the wheels were going to weigh an additional 100-150 grams.


they have "D881SB 15MM/D882SB 12*142MM" my front is 15mm TA and 12X142 highballc, so this should fit correct? i'm planning to order a set of LB wheelset soon. thank you for clarification, i was a little confused when reading Shiggy reply.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I have been asking Nancy about wider rims, 35-40mm.

She says their engineers are looking at it currently.

If there is any more interest it might be an idea to pop her a message so she knows.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

reamer41 said:


> I've noticed several posts that mention the gorilla tape or yellow tape not adhering.
> 
> One suggestion. After taping the rims (but before putting valves in) mount up your tires with tubes and go ride or let them sit over night. The tube pressure-seats the tape. I've used this technique and have never had a problem with tape not sticking. Oh, and be sure the rim is clean and dry....
> 
> ...


See post #4437 above


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

I was ordering some stuff recently through McMaster-Carr and couldn't find 1" gorilla tape but I did come across 1" wide gaffers tape in every color of the rainbow so I grabbed a roll of black and orange. 

It's more flexible then the gorilla tape I have but it has a matte cloth finish instead of the smooth plastic finish of the gorilla tape. I'm not sure if the layer of glue is enough to keep the sealant from leaking through or if we need that smooth plastic outer layer to prevent leaks. 

Has anyone tried gaffers tape?


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## joe77bike (Jul 2, 2012)

dbigfot111 said:


> i'm currently riding highballc (12x142mm) with shimano drive train, do you guys think novatec hub will fit my rear wheels?


Novatec D882 hubs with 12x142mm, surely can fit it.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Right now I'm in the middle of my wheel build with the wider 29er 3k matte finish. The wheel looks good but a little to neutral so I'm thinking of changing all the left side spoke for orange ones so from a side view it looks like a 16 spoke pattern. The other option would be to lace the different colors in groups of 4 so then it would have 4 solid sections of orange then 4 solid sections of black. What do you guys think? The orange spokes would be the ones taped in red. 








View attachment 839370


View attachment 839371


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## Dangerman76 (Apr 26, 2010)

The internal nipples solve a different but related problem with allow nipples. Alloy nipples aren't very strong under tension. Hence, many alloy nipples break at the shoulder of the nipple or at the point in the nipple that the spoke has been screwed upto (especially on the side of the hub subjected to torque forces like disc brake (front) or drive side (rear)). Internal nipples hold the spokes in place under compression and therefore avoid relying on the weakness of the alloy.

I've built a few internal nipple wheels and with carbon LB rims, I haven't had to true them for over a year (and counting) so that disadvantage isn't as bad as it may first appear. Also, you can use American Classic nipples (pillar make a copy of them too) that are a hybrid external/internal nipple:
It's The Small Things That Make A Difference - American Classic Founder Bill Shook Designed His Own Alloy Nipples With A Deeper Counterbore And A Matching Extension Out The Back. By Extending The Spoke Through The Head, The Head Is Now Loaded In Shea


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## mtonybarrett (Apr 27, 2008)

*My rim melted!*

I got a pair of LB "Old Process" rims back in February, and liked them so much that I built up a second pair in June. I am a cross country/light trail rider, and dont really abuse my wheels, so things were working out great. That is until this past weekend when my the rear rim of my "new process" rims wouldnt hold air. When I inspected the rim, i found that it was melted in a few places.

I have a hitch-mounted bike rack, so I am assuming that the heat from the exhaust pipe caused it, but none of the other 3 rims are damaged at all, and I have had them all on the rack for longer distances.

I sent an email and pics to the folks at LB, so lets see what they say.


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## alewi11 (May 20, 2010)

Can someone who's warrantied a rim from LB tell me how the communication went? I have a nice tear in the carbon on my rear rim. I have sent 2 emails to them and haven't gotten a response. The communication was good when they were taking my money. I'm starting to get pretty pissed. I'm already mad that I only got 1 month of riding on my rim before it **** the bed. Not to mention the fact that I'm going to have to pay to have them ship a new rim and spend my time rebuilding the wheel.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

I had to try to get in touch with them through a couple of medium for the first contact. The live chat on their website was my best bet when all else failed. Once they warrantied the rim they answered my e-mails promptly and although they never told me they shipped the new rim, I received it last week.



alewi11 said:


> Can someone who's warrantied a rim from LB tell me how the communication went? I have a nice tear in the carbon on my rear rim. I have sent 2 emails to them and haven't gotten a response. The communication was good when they were taking my money. I'm starting to get pretty pissed. I'm already mad that I only got 1 month of riding on my rim before it **** the bed. Not to mention the fact that I'm going to have to pay to have them ship a new rim and spend my time rebuilding the wheel.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

mtonybarrett said:


> I got a pair of LB "Old Process" rims back in February, and liked them so much that I built up a second pair in June. I am a cross country/light trail rider, and dont really abuse my wheels, so things were working out great. That is until this past weekend when my the rear rim of my "new process" rims wouldnt hold air. When I inspected the rim, i found that it was melted in a few places.
> 
> I have a hitch-mounted bike rack, so I am assuming that the heat from the exhaust pipe caused it, but none of the other 3 rims are damaged at all, and I have had them all on the rack for longer distances.
> 
> ...


Yikes!!

Good to know. I would have never thought there was enough heat coming out of the exhaust pipe vs. the surrounding cool air moving quickly at highway speeds to make anything to get that hot. I have a hitch rack too, and my A4 has two exhaust pipes pointed pretty much at each rim when the bike is on the rack. THere is about 24" between the exhaust pipe and the wheel, and they are not in a direct line.

THis pic kinda shows it.... hard to tell.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

Doesn't seem like that could happen while the car is moving, but I suppose sitting at a stop light the heat might get intense enough to cause that. It seem to recall hearing similar stories in the pre-carbon rim days about people having tires blow up due to the same cause. On that note, was it only your rim that took the heat [literally] or did your tire suffer as well?


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

alewi11 said:


> Can someone who's warrantied a rim from LB tell me how the communication went? I have a nice tear in the carbon on my rear rim. I have sent 2 emails to them and haven't gotten a response. The communication was good when they were taking my money. I'm starting to get pretty pissed. I'm already mad that I only got 1 month of riding on my rim before it **** the bed. Not to mention the fact that I'm going to have to pay to have them ship a new rim and spend my time rebuilding the wheel.


Not to make fun of your situation...but why do people like you act surprised when stuff like this happens ?? This is al part of buying cheap carbon from China.....you want good communication, fast service and cheap shipping...it all comes with a price. Pay before or pay after...ya still gotta pay one way or the other.


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## mtonybarrett (Apr 27, 2008)

I have the exact same setup: a 1-up rack on the back of my blue Mazda RX-8 with dual exhaust. The three other rims are just fine so I don't know if this was just an unlucky batch or if I should be worried about the other rims. 

I emailed them around 10pm EST and got no response. It may be to early to get pissed, but when I was ordering the response to emails was almost immediate.


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## mtonybarrett (Apr 27, 2008)

NoCoMTB said:


> Doesn't seem like that could happen while the car is moving, but I suppose sitting at a stop light the heat might get intense enough to cause that. It seem to recall hearing similar stories in the pre-carbon rim days about people having tires blow up due to the same cause. On that note, was it only your rim that took the heat [literally] or did your tire suffer as well?


The tires are fine. And the three other rims that I put on that rack at fine also


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

This can happen under certain seldom repeated circumstances. I have a John Deere tractor and I drove it for years with no issues. One day, I parked with the engine running at full speed (had deck with 3 blades running) for about 3 minutes. I came back and it had melted a hole in the right front tire. The wheel was turned all the way left, it was a very hot day, there was almost no wind, the engine was a full tilt and loaded with the blades, etc.


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

Hello mtonybarrett

I do not think that we are talking about a LB problem only 

Please see this ENVE document:

http://www.enve.com/cache/DOC246_ENVEConsumerNotice-BikeCarriersandExhaust.pdf?20130612120012



> ENVE Consumer Notice
> It has been brought to our attention that certain bicycle transport methods and vehicle/bike rack combinations are placing the wheels and tires of the bicycle too close to the vehicle's exhaust system. Placing a carbon rim too close to the exhaust may result in softening of the resins which can irreparably damage the rim. If the bicycle tire itself is too close to the exhaust region of the vehicle, the tire may melt and blow as a result.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Yeah, I have heard of this but never actually seen one.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Phil S said:


> Here they are fitted (from the Lapierre thread) I'm also loving the black rims, black hubs and silver spokes look after several years of 'all black'.


Heh... I've been trying to be an 'all silver' guy on my bikes (although, I do some blue anodized bits sometimes). These rims break that... plus, it's really hard to find silver Lefty hubs these days. If they could do these rims in a good looking silver, I would totally go that way. I've seen 'silver' carbon fiber, and it looks pretty dang terrible. I'll stick to 3k matte black.

I'm digging the internal nipple option. How do you calculate for that? Do you take the SpokeCalc calculations and add 5mm to the spoke length, or something?

Ew:


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## mtonybarrett (Apr 27, 2008)

ebsilon said:


> Hello mtonybarrett
> 
> I do not think that we are talking about a LB problem only
> 
> ...


Thanks for the article. Now i have to decide if I am going to:1) start using a roof rack, 2) go back to aluminum rims, or 3) just do nothing and hope it doesn't happen again. I guess that carbon rims are not the be all and end all. It's a shame that they ride so darn nice...


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

mtonybarrett said:


> Thanks for the article. Now i have to decide if I am going to:1) start using a roof rack, 2) go back to aluminum rims, or 3) just do nothing and hope it doesn't happen again. I guess that carbon rims are not the be all and end all. It's a shame that they ride so darn nice...


Maybe look at building a heat shield on the rack right where the wheel is to deflect the exhaust. Go to Home Depot and get a piece of aluminum and bolt it on and test it.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Saturday burpfest. Started out at 23lbs and was down to 20 after about 30 minutes of riding. Took them up to like 28 for the rest of the ride and still they're burping. The ground control has two layers of the wide blue tape and the nobby nic only has one. I thought the nic would be ok cause it didn't burp on my first ride. But today I was at a place thats all root and rocks. Its not helping that the ground control is kinda worn and the sidewalls have the resiliancy of jello. I loved the GC when I first got one, but I've really grown to hate them - they last like two months before they turn to mush. I'm going to replace it soon but I want to make this work first.

Guess I'm going to try like 4 layers of the blue tape. If that doesn't do the trick for my next ride I'll get the bonty strips.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Do the stan's valves work with the bonty strips ?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

92gli said:


> Do the stan's valves work with the bonty strips ?


Maybe, but why bother? The Bonty valve work VERY well and I have been using the same pair in one wheelset since 2005. Same rimstrips, too.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

92gli said:


> Saturday burpfest. Started out at 23lbs and was down to 20 after about 30 minutes of riding. Took them up to like 28 for the rest of the ride and still they're burping. The ground control has two layers of the wide blue tape and the nobby nic only has one. I thought the nic would be ok cause it didn't burp on my first ride. But today I was at a place thats all root and rocks. Its not helping that the ground control is kinda worn and the sidewalls have the resiliancy of jello. I loved the GC when I first got one, but I've really grown to hate them - they last like two months before they turn to mush. I'm going to replace it soon but I want to make this work first.
> 
> Guess I'm going to try like 4 layers of the blue tape. If that doesn't do the trick for my next ride I'll get the bonty strips.


Are you sure you are burping between the tire and rim and not losing air through the tire sidewall? I've had Nobby Nics at 25 all summer hauling through some pretty rocky stuff and never once burped, using a single layer of gorilla tape.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Stans valves work with the rim strips, but are not optimally long. I have to tighten the top nut real good so that the Stans syringe just screws on.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

shiggy said:


> Maybe, but why bother? The Bonty valve work VERY well and I have been using the same pair in one wheelset since 2005. Same rimstrips, too.


Mainly wondering because I have 5 stans valves on hand. If the gasket fits into the strip I do t want to add to my valve collection.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

albertdc said:


> Are you sure you are burping between the tire and rim and not losing air through the tire sidewall? I've had Nobby Nics at 25 all summer hauling through some pretty rocky stuff and never once burped, using a single layer of gorilla tape.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


Very sure. It's not sidewall bleeding. I'm very familiar with that thanks to my history of buying specialized tires. Look at the spray pattern on the Nic.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

NoCoMTB said:


> See post #4437 above


Great minds think alike....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - hence the typos...


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

92gli said:


> Saturday burpfest. Started out at 23lbs and was down to 20 after about 30 minutes of riding. Took them up to like 28 for the rest of the ride and still they're burping. The ground control has two layers of the wide blue tape and the nobby nic only has one. I thought the nic would be ok cause it didn't burp on my first ride. But today I was at a place thats all root and rocks. Its not helping that the ground control is kinda worn and the sidewalls have the resiliancy of jello. I loved the GC when I first got one, but I've really grown to hate them - they last like two months before they turn to mush. I'm going to replace it soon but I want to make this work first.
> 
> Guess I'm going to try like 4 layers of the blue tape. If that doesn't do the trick for my next ride I'll get the bonty strips.


4 layers of tape? :nono:

End your burping and weeping: Go Directly to the Bontrager Strips!

Post #131 in this long and tired thread is all you need to confirm.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Bontrager strips and valves are the simple and secure path. Don't know why guy's even fool with other methods.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Bontrager strips and valves are the simple and secure path. Don't know why guy's even fool with other methods.


If your not changing tires often and leave them on till they wear out, then a 24" BMX tube ghetto tubeless setup works wonderful also.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Don't know why guy's even fool with other methods.


In an attempt to save a few dollars and pull a fast one on The Man. Why pay $10 for a strip when four dollars of tape gets me riding.

Faulty logic IMHO.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Yeah, saving a couple of bucks and having tires that burp is really "pulling a fast one on The Man". What did you say about faulty logic?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> 4 layers of tape? :nono:
> 
> End your burping and weeping: Go Directly to the Bontrager Strips!
> 
> Post #131 in this long and tired thread is all you need to confirm.





Dirty $anchez said:


> Bontrager strips and valves are the simple and secure path. Don't know why guy's even fool with other methods.


I know. I know. I'm ordering them right now. Was going to add more tape for another ride today but my bad knee needs a rest. Hanging the bike up until the strips arrive.



In2falling said:


> If your not changing tires often and leave them on till they wear out, then a 24" BMX tube ghetto tubeless setup works wonderful also.


That's a part of my cycling history I will never revisit.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

How do these rims hold up compared to crest? I keep going through crest rims on the rear. The front are fine...


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

*Just finished my first wheel build ever.*









I just finished lacing and truing my first wheel build ever. It was a fun learning process with bumps along the way, but I finally got it done.

My components:

29er wider Light Bicycle wheel
Chris King 12x142 rear hub
DT Swiss double butted spokes 291/292 mm.
black, red, blue, and silver aluminum nipples
current weight = 860 grams.

Took me about 3 hours split up into 4 sessions to true my wheel. I got kids so it's hard to really dedicate a lot of time to it when they are constantly asking what you are doing. lol. Funny, cause I had no idea what I was doing either.

I guess the next step is to tape it and install the valve.


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

Did you use any guide in particularI to help you along the way?


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

I watched a video on youtube from thebiketube to give me a visual of what I needed to do.
Lacing a Rear 32 Spoke Wheel, 3 Cross | How to Build a Bicycle Wheel - YouTube

I also read Sheldon Brown's website about wheelbuilding to give me all the details.

Wheelbuilding

But the best information and advice that I got was from my other biking buddies. Nearly all of them build their own wheels and a few of them work in bike shops or use to work in one. You can only learn so much from videos and literature. That's just the nature of the beast. I'm itching to build another wheel!

I also just finished taping and installing my tubeless valve stem. I used the 1" Gorilla Tape. That tape works pretty well. I just made sure to press the tape down and used a ballpoint pen, with the tip retracted, to press down the edges under the lip.


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

Thanks! Never built before, have kids, but my wife reminds me that I don't have much time.


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

I did 90% of my wheelbuilding late at night. After the kids went to bed and my wife was reading her kindle. That is usually my "Me" time anyways. 

The lacing part is supposed to be easy, but I screwed up and it took me forever. I was essentially one hole off, or the "key" spoke was not in the right hole. I had my friends look at it and they were able to show me what I did in wrong. Like I said, videos and books can only take you so far. For me, I found that there is nothing better than having a friend who knows how to build wheels. 


I highly suggest giving it a try. I'm sure you will be able to figure it out and build a good wheel. :thumbsup:


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Can someone please tell me what length the spokes should be when building up one of these carbon frames? I'm looking at spokes and the length ranges from 268mm - 273mm depending on the brand.

Will the length be determine by what hub I'll be using?

I'll be having my LBS complete the wheel build up for me but I want to be able to purchase all the parts.

Thanks.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

The hub and rim combo determines the spoke length so you need specs on both before you even start to calculate.


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

Mazukea said:


> The lacing part is supposed to be easy, but I screwed up and it took me forever. I was essentially one hole off, or the "key" spoke was not in the right hole. :


One thing that can help this is 1) open your beer AFTER the first set of spokes is in, 2) steal a page from Gravy's book and use a colored nipple for the 'key' spoke (or a piece of tape). Once I started delaying the first beer, the wheelbuild went much better, and usually ended up faster, and thus, fewer beers. In order to stay on quota, I usually fix something on the bike once the wheel is done.

Adding lights to your truing stand helps, too. I used some leftover LED tape lights, you can buy them by the foot from plenty of places on the web and power them with a 12VDC wallwart. Mine run up the inside faces of my stand, and it makes it much easier to see the threads on the spokes as I start tensioning.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Ok so let say I get this rim, what info would I be looking at from the specs?









With this hub: what info would I look at?
Nukeproof Generator Rear Hub - QR Specifications:

Width: 135mm
67mm flange diameter
Spoke PCD 58mm, spoke hole diameter 2.3mm
Left side Axle edge-to-flange diameter: 33mm
Right side Axle edge-to-flange diameter: 45.5mm
15.25mm end of axle to disc mount face
Weight: 305

Is there a formula to be used to calculate length of spokes?


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

pucked up said:


> Ok so let say I get this rim, what info would I be looking at from the specs?
> 
> Is there a formula to be used to calculate length of spokes?


youve got lots of reading to do.... there is no shortcut to building a good wheel. Take the time to read. http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/wheelbuilding-resources-517093.html


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

SandSpur said:


> youve got lots of reading to do.... there is no shortcut to building a good wheel. Take the time to read. http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/wheelbuilding-resources-517093.html


Damn, I just finished reading all 243 pages of the "Chinese Carbon 29er" thread. Page 21 on this thread and now more reading?!

Lol.

Oh well, can't hurt. After all this reading, I may just end up building these wheels myself! Can't be as hard as building a set of bike lights?


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

Pucked, wheelbuilding is easy, you just have to be zen about it and take your time. I use spocalc.xls (google it), as has been said above, whatever calculator you use, stay consistent. That spreadsheet has served me well for about 50 wheels. If you can deal with drivers and LED chips, this is much simpler and has no firmware to play with, you just have to be methodical and follow the steps religiously. "Zinn and the art of..." has a pretty good description you can cookbook. It's better than Brandt's book for explanation of the process. I have not built with the LB rims but am planning on it this winter. Expect your first wheel to take several hours, by your 5th or so it should be an hour or less.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Thanks Stockli, I'll have a lot of good reading to do and see if I'll have a go at this.

My plan was to originally purchase a new bike next spring but stumbled across the Chinese Carbon 29er thread. Now instead of purchasing a bike, I'll build a "better one" for the same price. Hope to be riding it by late May 2014.


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

Pucked up - The ERD of the rim will help determine the spoke length. Looks like 598mm for the rim you are looking at. What hub do you plan on using? The amount of spokes and lacing pattern also helps determine spoke length.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Thanks. Another question, can I run an 11 speed cog set with these rims? I've seen a lot of 1x10's but haven't seen any 1x11's.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

"by your 5th or so it should be an hour or less."
To have it properly built, trued, dished, tensioned (with a tensionometer), stress relieved? Bull ****!


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

pucked up said:


> Thanks. Another question, can I run an 11 speed cog set with these rims? I've seen a lot of 1x10's but haven't seen any 1x11's.


You will need an 11 speed compatible hub.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Mazukea said:


> View attachment 840558
> 
> 
> I just finished lacing and truing my first wheel build ever. It was a fun learning process with bumps along the way, but I finally got it done.
> ...


How long, all said and done, did it take you to build this wheel to completion?


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

Sure, if I set it up slowly and don't drink beer until after the lacing. Tensioned, trued, hopped and dished in an hour is about right. If you are careful on the initial tensioning and count threads and turns of the wrench, hopping is minimal and it dishes pretty well. It took a lot of wheels to learn the steps to really focus on the early steps that make the later steps smoother. I've built road, XC, 'cross, and DH wheels for myself and others, and no one has complained yet. Some wheels are pushing 10 years old and thousands of dirt miles. On my own road wheels, I've worn out the brake tracks before I did any retruing or retensioning, and I'm 210lbs, so they are plenty strong. One set went 7,500 miles before a flange cracked. Offset dish for my Pugsley really screwed with my head, so that one was slower.

Of course, while learning, I also had one wheel I laced about 10 times over 3 days before I realized I had entered wrong data into spocalc. I'm looking forward to trying out my first carbon build.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I have built several stans no tubes rim builds and I can say for a fact that the LB carbon rims build up MUCH better and stay truer longer on top of being stiffer, more solid, and just better in all ways.. They always say to re-tension your wheels after you ride them several times. I did it on the Light bicycle rims just for good measure although they didn't really need it.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

"Tensioned, trued, hopped and dished in an hour is about right."

So excluding lacing the wheel up I take it? I can see that, but not including lacing in an hour.


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

epiphreddy said:


> "Tensioned, trued, hopped and dished in an hour is about right."
> 
> So excluding lacing the wheel up I take it? I can see that, but not including lacing in an hour.


Maybe 10 minutes. 8 here, 8 there, flip, repeat. I'm pretty good at counting to 32, don't even need help anymore. Open beer, s-l-o-w-l-y bring up tension. Did one a few weeks ago, rebuilt a wheel that got tacoed while on the back of my car rack (clipped by a client, so unusually, I bit my tongue). Grabbed a rim I had hanging around for about 8 years, bought 16 spokes, used 16 I had, still made the shop ride with time for coffee. Not too hard, provided you duct tape the kid beforehand and put the dog outside. That wheel now has 500 miles on it and I've never heard a single ping. It's still true and tight, and it'll stay that way. I used to build DH wheels for a semi-pro racer, he said my builds were better than any of his other wheels, and those took an hour, maybe an hour and a half, but we usually chatted while I built.

I'm not a pro, but after 50 some-odd wheels, I'm not bad, and my stuff works. So yeah, an hour.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Stockli Boy said:


> Maybe 10 minutes. 8 here, 8 there, flip, repeat. I'm pretty good at counting to 32, don't even need help anymore. Open beer, s-l-o-w-l-y bring up tension. Did one a few weeks ago, rebuilt a wheel that got tacoed while on the back of my car rack (clipped by a client, so unusually, I bit my tongue). Grabbed a rim I had hanging around for about 8 years, bought 16 spokes, used 16 I had, still made the shop ride with time for coffee. Not too hard, provided you duct tape the kid beforehand and put the dog outside. That wheel now has 500 miles on it and I've never heard a single ping. It's still true and tight, and it'll stay that way. I used to build DH wheels for a semi-pro racer, he said my builds were better than any of his other wheels, and those took an hour, maybe an hour and a half, but we usually chatted while I built.
> 
> I'm not a pro, but after 50 some-odd wheels, I'm not bad, and my stuff works. So yeah, an hour.


You're cool.


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

Stockli Boy said:


> Maybe 10 minutes. 8 here, 8 there, flip, repeat. I'm pretty good at counting to 32, don't even need help anymore. Open beer, s-l-o-w-l-y bring up tension. Did one a few weeks ago, rebuilt a wheel that got tacoed while on the back of my car rack (clipped by a client, so unusually, I bit my tongue). Grabbed a rim I had hanging around for about 8 years, bought 16 spokes, used 16 I had, still made the shop ride with time for coffee. Not too hard, provided you duct tape the kid beforehand and put the dog outside. That wheel now has 500 miles on it and I've never heard a single ping. It's still true and tight, and it'll stay that way. I used to build DH wheels for a semi-pro racer, he said my builds were better than any of his other wheels, and those took an hour, maybe an hour and a half, but we usually chatted while I built.
> 
> I'm not a pro, but after 50 some-odd wheels, I'm not bad, and my stuff works. So yeah, an hour.


It would be cool if you video tape your next build and upload to YouTube, including the beer part. I'd love to watch how you do the build. I will learn wheel building some day in your style


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

epiphreddy said:


> How long, all said and done, did it take you to build this wheel to completion?


It took me 6 hours of actual building time over the course of 3 weeks. I would estimate about 2 hours for lacing and 4 hours to true it. I forgot about the dishing part so I wasted a couple of hours truing a wheel that wasn't even dished properly. rookie mistake.

I honestly believe I can shave off at least 2 hours for my next build. I think the lacing part should go faster and the truing part should go just a tad quicker.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Epiphreddy, so your saying the lb wheels are stronger than stans crest?

I am looking for the next step stronger wheel than the crest...


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Stockli Boy said:


> Maybe 10 minutes. 8 here, 8 there, flip, repeat. I'm pretty good at counting to 32, don't even need help anymore. Open beer, s-l-o-w-l-y bring up tension. Did one a few weeks ago, rebuilt a wheel that got tacoed while on the back of my car rack (clipped by a client, so unusually, I bit my tongue). Grabbed a rim I had hanging around for about 8 years, bought 16 spokes, used 16 I had, still made the shop ride with time for coffee. Not too hard, provided you duct tape the kid beforehand and put the dog outside. That wheel now has 500 miles on it and I've never heard a single ping. It's still true and tight, and it'll stay that way. I used to build DH wheels for a semi-pro racer, he said my builds were better than any of his other wheels, and those took an hour, maybe an hour and a half, but we usually chatted while I built.
> 
> I'm not a pro, but after 50 some-odd wheels, I'm not bad, and my stuff works. So yeah, an hour.


Mine take longer. I'd like to get better, so a video with emphasis on tensioning would be useful.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Mazukea said:


> It took me 6 hours of actual building time over the course of 3 weeks.


Zuk, the first set of wheels i ever built took me about 8-10 hours... now after building about 12-15 sets i'm down to about 2.5 hours.


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

jlian said:


> It would be cool if you video tape your next build and upload to YouTube, including the beer part. I'd love to watch how you do the build. I will learn wheel building some day in your style


I need a video tutorial, or at least a better video card. All I get in Windows Movie Maker is a black screen and audio. Wheelbuilding is apparently easier than upgrading drivers in my world, because I have the latest drivers, and they seem to have been designed to make crappy free software not work very well. My first build was pre-YouTube, so I've never looked. I can't believe that someone hasn't put up something decent.

Honestly, I learned by following the steps in Zinn's book. Brandt's book is good, but Zinn's tutorial is better. I still get it out for reference and review it every time I build a wheel.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

rupps5 The Crests and LB wheels are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Crests are about as flexy as you can build a wheel and expect it to work and LB's are among the strongest. I have tacoed a Crest by clipping the side of a berm and I have also blow a tire completely off both sides on a Crest by hitting a U-out too hard. I have done the same and worse with my LB wheels with no ill effects.


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## poison-bike (Oct 22, 2013)

Hello this is my first post here in the board. I'm from Germany an I'm looking for a 29 inch stiff wheelset. I weigh 90kg and the wheelset should not weigh more than 1550g. is that possible? do you know good offers? by the way front wheel front 15mm an rear wheel rear 12*142mm thru axle. 
it also should be tubeless ready. 

Many thanks for you help!


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

ozzybmx said:


> Zuk, the first set of wheels i ever built took me about 8-10 hours... now after building about 12-15 sets i'm down to about 2.5 hours.


I hope to be down to 2-3 hours in the future. I'm still pretty stoked about building my first wheel. =)

Honestly if I factor in all the reading, video watching, and talking to my friends, then this wheel took me the entire 3 weeks to build. lol. Just figuring out the correct spoke length was a job in itself.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Poison-bike These 29inch wide rims built up with American Classic hubs and DT Revolution spokes were in the 1400's for me. Also, DT 240's came in about 50 grams heavier IIRC. I have thrashed both sets for months with no problems even though I am about 10 kilo's lighter.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

rupps5 said:


> Epiphreddy, so your saying the lb wheels are stronger than stans crest?
> 
> I am looking for the next step stronger wheel than the crest...


Then I would say you are looking at the best rim available given the price. I don't hesitate bombing down anything and hitting anything as hard as I wish. These rims build up so nicely, are very stiff, stay VERY true, and are just plain awesome. I have a Jet RDO and a RIP RDO and did my first set for the Jet RDO and they are SOOO good I am now going to do a set for my RIP RDO. They are THAT good. After reading this forum, I somewhat thought, no way could they be as good as everyone is saying and I PM'd several folks and then I bit the bullet and did my first set. This will be my second set, and I have two other friends that have ordered them and out of the 8 LB rims I have weighed, every one of them come in at their advertised weight of 390 grams +/- 10 grams.
So couple in the strength, width, weight, looks, etc., etc. they are 5 times better than the Crest's at only about twice the price.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Mazukea said:


> I hope to be down to 2-3 hours in the future. I'm still pretty stoked about building my first wheel. =)
> 
> Honestly if I factor in all the reading, video watching, and talking to my friends, then this wheel took me the entire 3 weeks to build. lol. Just figuring out the correct spoke length was a job in itself.


This is in the 1st thread in the wheel building sticky on this forum: 
Wheels
Of note is where he says, "A decent wheelbuild will take me three hours for each wheel and I've been doing them for fifty freakin' years. You newbs want to have a pair done in half that time and be 5 miles down the road too. Sheesh. I don't make money building wheels so I don't care how long it takes me. You shouldn't either."

I have built several wheels now (around 10 sets). I have gotten much better and feel like I can build wheels "as good" as anyone else. "As good" as anyone else to me means they stay true and work perfectly mile after mile. I can't imagine however good I get, being about to do it in an hour or even two hours considering greasing each nipple seat, and lubing each spoke thread and doing things slowly and properly and not making a mistake. 
All I am saying is why rush it and risk a poor build. A little time spent up front will re-pay itself on down the road.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

epiphreddy said:


> This is in the 1st thread in the wheel building sticky on this forum:
> Wheels
> Of note is where he says, "A decent wheelbuild will take me three hours for each wheel and I've been doing them for fifty freakin' years. You newbs want to have a pair done in half that time and be 5 miles down the road too. Sheesh. I don't make money building wheels so I don't care how long it takes me. You shouldn't either."


Funniest thing I've read all day, thanks!


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

epiphreddy said:


> All I am saying is why rush it and risk a poor build. A little time spent up front will re-pay itself on down the road.


:thumbsup: I agree 100% with that great point.


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

The new hookless rims from LB are now available apparantly, not on the website, you have to ask Nancy for them. 27mm outer width, 22mm inner, under 380g and tubeless compatible.

Also for people seeking an alternative to the Derby rim (still quite expensive) there are these - NEW-DESIGNED 35mm Wide Carbon Mountain Bike 29er Rim Clincher Tubeless Compatible [NXT29C03]


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

epiphreddy said:


> This is in the 1st thread in the wheel building sticky on this forum:
> Wheels
> Of note is where he says, "A decent wheelbuild will take me three hours for each wheel and I've been doing them for fifty freakin' years. You newbs want to have a pair done in half that time and be 5 miles down the road too. Sheesh. I don't make money building wheels so I don't care how long it takes me. You shouldn't either."


Didn't i just write that my first wheel build ever took me 6 hours of actual building time? Where did I write that I wanted to be done in 1.5 hours and riding it in the same day? My wheel is still hanging up in my garage. I have a cassette and tire for it, but I'm not rushing to put it on. I said I hope to be down to 2-3 hours in the future only because I expect my learning curve to be a bit faster as I gain experience and knowledge. Plus that's usually the "normal" amount of time it takes to build a wheel. I don't think I ever implied that I wanted to be a fast wheel builder. Nope. Just like you, I don't get paid to build wheels.

I'm just stoked that I built my first wheel. It was a cool and fun experience. Let this newb enjoy the moment.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Muzukea....yes you did great! I posted that to emphasize a realistic timeframe for an experienced wheelbuilder (at least that particular author's link). If you get down to 3 hours per wheel that is great. Your time will decrease as you gain experience. But for anyone to say they can build a good wheel properly in an hour to me is not realistic and silly to even try for that I guess unless you are trying to maximize time/money (not saying YOU were)....so my point is take your time (as you have done) and get it right and have fun with it!!! :thumbsup:


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

poison-bike said:


> Hello this is my first post here in the board. I'm from Germany an I'm looking for a 29 inch stiff wheelset. I weigh 90kg and the wheelset should not weigh more than 1550g. is that possible? do you know good offers? by the way front wheel front 15mm an rear wheel rear 12*142mm thru axle.
> it also should be tubeless ready.
> 
> Many thanks for you help!


Servus, poison-bike.

Rim weights are well known and listed at Light-Bicycle...

390g: Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) Light-Bicycle

und...

370g: cross country bike carbon mountain biking 29er rim clincher Light-Bicycle

Your choice of hubs and spokes (and nipples) will determine the final wheel weight set that you need. Having personally never seen the LB wheel builds, I would advise to avoid them and build a set using your favorite hubs and spokes rather than buying the pre-made wheelset from LB.

At your weight of 90kg, the goal of a wheelset having to weigh sub 1550g (you weigh 90 kilos) can be met even if you go with some solid spokes such as DT Swiss Comp with a 32H - be it the narrow or the wide rims - to have a quality and durable wheel set for your weight. Climbing hills at your weight is not going to make much difference if your wheelset weighs 1550g or 1650g. Your choice of spoke and hub will determine which side of the 1550g you land, but one would hope you are seeking a stiff wheelset by going with the carbon. See what the wheelbuilder suggest for the best spoke for your needs.

That being said a wheelset using wider LB rims that weighs 1550g - 1600g for your weight would be a piece of cake if you've got the Euros to spend and build them up. Using the wide LB rims, my build came out at 1540g with American Classic hubs and durable spokes. I had the hubs on another wheelset, so was only out the cost of the rims and spokes for the build.



BB

P.S. I'll be in Stuttgart/Schorndorf for 5 months in 2015 if you want to ride.


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

epiphreddy said:


> Muzukea....yes you did great! I posted that to emphasize a realistic timeframe for an experienced wheelbuilder (at least that particular author's link). If you get down to 3 hours per wheel that is great. Your time will decrease as you gain experience. But for anyone to say they can build a good wheel properly in an hour to me is not realistic and silly to even try for that I guess unless you are trying to maximize time/money (not saying YOU were)....so my point is take your time (as you have done) and get it right and have fun with it!!! :thumbsup:


thanks.

I just saw you quoting me and figured it was directed at me. I see where you were going with it now.

I forgot to mentioned that I spent an hour lubing my nipples. Then I spent another hour lubing the aluminum nipples for my wheel. You veteran wheelbuilders still do that too? I mean who doesn't like lubing their nipples?


----------



## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

robgall13 said:


> Also for people seeking an alternative to the Derby rim (still quite expensive) there are these - NEW-DESIGNED 35mm Wide Carbon Mountain Bike 29er Rim Clincher Tubeless Compatible [NXT29C03]


These are also available from Peter with xmiplay as a complete wheelset. I just ordered a set and their specs mention titanium and have identical dimensions. They are the IP-M935C AM, not on their website yet though. (See post #4446)


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

poison-bike said:


> Hello this is my first post here in the board. I'm from Germany an I'm looking for a 29 inch stiff wheelset. I weigh 90kg and the wheelset should not weigh more than 1550g. is that possible? do you know good offers? by the way front wheel front 15mm an rear wheel rear 12*142mm thru axle.
> it also should be tubeless ready.
> 
> Many thanks for you help!


Specialized has a few wheelsets that would interest you.

$1700 1370 grams
Specialized Bicycle Components

$1200 1580 grams
Specialized Bicycle Components

$1700 1570 grams
Specialized Bicycle Components


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## NRS_Comp1 (Jun 3, 2006)

I have a question to people that took a chance and bought rims from Light-Bike. i'm looking at buying the wider AM 29er rims, but I tempted to just buy their complete wheelset. 

Should I get just the rims and choose my own hubs and spokes and get the wheels build by my bike shop instead ? because I'm pretty sure I would save money just buying their complete wheelset but I'm not so sure about the Novatec hubs and the spokes they're using? Anyone has any experience with their complete wheelset?

Thanks all for your input !

Cheers!


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## Gee-Moment (Apr 20, 2006)

Has anyone tried the Nextie 35mm wider rim that Robgall13 linked to above... was jsut about to go for the new LB 27mm hookless rims but must admit I'm darn tempted.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

robgall13 said:


> The new hookless rims from LB are now available apparantly, not on the website, you have to ask Nancy for them. 27mm outer width, 22mm inner, under 380g and tubeless compatible.
> 
> Also for people seeking an alternative to the Derby rim (still quite expensive) there are these - NEW-DESIGNED 35mm Wide Carbon Mountain Bike 29er Rim Clincher Tubeless Compatible [NXT29C03]


Wonder why LB didn't do wide hookless.

Those other wide ones look like a great option, like the titanium wire bead reinforcement. of course those come up right after I buy from LB. :madman:


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

NRS_Comp1 said:


> I have a question to people that took a chance and bought rims from Light-Bike. i'm looking at buying the wider AM 29er rims, but I tempted to just buy their complete wheelset.
> 
> Should I get just the rims and choose my own hubs and spokes and get the wheels build by my bike shop instead ? because I'm pretty sure I would save money just buying their complete wheelset but I'm not so sure about the Novatec hubs and the spokes they're using? Anyone has any experience with their complete wheelset?
> 
> ...


You have other hub choices per their website.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I am not sold on Ti reinforcement. Sounds like a marketing gimmick to me. Most Ti parts weigh more than comparable carbon parts. Looks like it would be stronger to use carbon or kevlar threads to reinforce the bead.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

That wire won't do much, it's not located at a weak point in the rim. If they used Ti to reinforce sidewalls however it could be interesting.


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

DeeZee said:


> You have other hub choices per their website.


Just click on the hub line on its wheelset product description page, then you get a page with all hub options. Didn't know they now include an option of Project 321 lefty hub for Cannondale.

I bought a LB wheelset with the Hope hubs earlier this earlier to get XD driver compatibility for XX1. So far working perfectly.


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

Gee-Moment I don't know about those rims on particular but I know Eliflap (well known weight weenie) has used some of their road rims. I think someone will just have to bite the bullet...


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## Gee-Moment (Apr 20, 2006)

Cheers Rob. Brian from Nextie has mailed me so I'll throw in a few questions. 

I had a lighter build in mind so maybe I'll plump for the LB hookless for a set of 29er Carbon wheels for my hardtail for now. Then perhaps the full suss 29er I have in mind for next season will be best candidate for the wider rims.

I'll see what I can find out...


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## jimmybjj (Jan 25, 2013)

I am sure this has been asked before but i couldn't find the answer in the 182 pages. It appears the erd on the Chinese is often right at 601 or a touch more. I currently own a set flow ex for a 603 erd with little use on them. What are the chances that i can use the spokes on a set of new Chinese rims. What would the optimal nipple to use in this case if it is considered doable.

Thanks for any help or advise.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

jimmybjj said:


> I am sure this has been asked before but i couldn't find the answer in the 182 pages. It appears the erd on the Chinese is often right at 601 or a touch more. I currently own a set flow ex for a 603 erd with little use on them. What are the chances that i can use the spokes on a set of new Chinese rims. What would the optimal nipple to use in this case if it is considered doable.
> 
> Thanks for any help or advise.


It really depends on who built your current wheel and if they used the optimal spoke length, which may give you a little wiggle room. For example - when I just built my wheels I wanted to re-use the spokes from both of my old stan's rims. The front wheel was originally built by me and the spokes were not too long for the LB rim - they ended up coming just to the end of the nipples. My old rear wheel was built by the morons at prowheelbuilder - they used 295s for some reason, when they should have been 291-292 (IIRC). I didn't measure them before I started, transferred everything over, and the spokes were poking out of the nips before I even got close to tension.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

By the way - Installed the Bontrager strips last night. Pretty nice how they fit perfectly in the LB wide rims. Was very pleased with how loud the pops were when I inflated the tires. (there was barely a pop when I used the tape only). Can't wait to try this out, seems like it should be burp proof as advertised. 
Also - shout out to trek for shipping the same day I ordered. Had them in 2 days. :thumbsup:


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

BruceBrown said:


> Servus, poison-bike.
> 
> Rim weights are well known and listed at Light-Bicycle...
> 
> ...


1540g 29er wheelset is Sick!!!!!!!!


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

92gli said:


> By the way - Installed the Bontrager strips last night. Pretty nice how they fit perfectly in the LB wide rims. Was very pleased with how loud the pops were when I inflated the tires. (there was barely a pop when I used the tape only).


There you go, you're set.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

So here's what I ended up with of my single speed build. 
Wider light bike rims with matte 3k finish and orange decals. 
Industry Nine Torch hubs in orange with single speed rear
Sapim Cx-Ray spokes Black & Orange
Dt Swiss Black and Orange nipples 12mm
I tried gaffers tape for getto tubeless but failed miserably, so I tried gorilla tape and it beaded right up with Stan's.

This was my first wheel build ever so it took me about 5 hrs total after watching the dt-Swiss video. The day after building these I raced them in a 24hr solo race and logged just over 200 miles on them and they are still true and can be. I will note that saying these ride stiff is a huge understatement. In the first two miles of my warmup I stopped 4 time to see if I had burped air because the ride was so harsh over a couple bumps or rocks I thought I was bottoming out on the rim. I was even running mountain king 2.4 with 20 psi. After deciding that's just how they ride I got used to it after about 30 miles. Now for some eye candy 
View attachment 841429


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

Deleted. Wrong thread.:madman:


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

RojoRacing53 said:


> So here's what I ended up with of my single speed build.
> Wider light bike rims with matte 3k finish and orange decals.
> Industry Nine Torch hubs in orange with single speed rear
> Sapim Cx-Ray spokes Black & Orange
> ...


That look's very nice :thumbsup: 
I can't wait to get mine done..........
Doing Chris King's in Red now after looking at your spoke's I might go red and black instead of white.


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

RojoRacing53 said:


> So here's what I ended up with of my single speed build.


+1 for your build. Very nice color scheme:thumbsup:


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

I had gold I9's on my Tang Niner but your wheels look much better than what mine did.



RojoRacing53 said:


> So here's what I ended up with of my single speed build.
> Wider light bike rims with matte 3k finish and orange decals.
> Industry Nine Torch hubs in orange with single speed rear
> Sapim Cx-Ray spokes Black & Orange
> ...


----------



## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

muzzanic said:


> I had gold I9's on my Tang Niner but your wheels look much better than what mine did.


Do you have a pix of your wheels on a black / yellow bike? I have have a Spec Elite that has yellow highlights, so I thought about going with I9's gold hubs. Thx.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

journey said:


> Do you have a pix of your wheels on a black / yellow bike? I have have a Spec Elite that has yellow highlights, so I thought about going with I9's gold hubs. Thx.


I will look through my photos, I may have some of them on my wife's black Air9 RDO


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

Muzzanic - thanks. 

Others - I looked on the LB site tonight and saw several questions around wider rims -- I suspect if more people ask about them, there would be a better the chance of seeing the wider 29" rims...


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Spammer said:


> Now we have wide carbon mtb rims available.


Gotta laugh at the >300kgf spoke tension spec. Ever built a wheel? :crazy:


----------



## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

The rims look dandy. Went to the site, where are the prices?


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## agu (Jun 22, 2007)

@epiphreddy I think the rims are $155 apiece. I'm gonna wait a while for them to refine the product/process behind it. Besides, I've a pair of Derby's on order


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Incredible how much spamming is allowed on this site. If you check out how much mtbr charges advertisers.....it would blow your mind. Why advertise legitimately ??? Sux for companies that do.....


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

agu said:


> @epiphreddy I think the rims are $155 apiece. I'm gonna wait a while for them to refine the product/process behind it. Besides, I've a pair of Derby's on order


Derbys are now $300/rim.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

YaMon said:


> Incredible how much spamming is allowed on this site. If you check out how much mtbr charges advertisers.....it would blow your mind. Why advertise legitimately ??? Sux for companies that do.....


That's why I wouldn't buy anything from Peter. He could spend the $2 for an add and just reference, instead he chooses to be an ******* spamming his crap.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> That's why I wouldn't buy anything from Peter. He could spend the $2 for an add and just reference, instead he chooses to be an ******* spamming his crap.


Agreed!


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## wallerbj (Sep 6, 2007)

92gli said:


> Wonder why LB didn't do wide hookless.
> 
> Those other wide ones look like a great option, like the titanium wire bead reinforcement. of course those come up right after I buy from LB. :madman:


Spoke with Nancy via Live Support last night and she indicated they have no plans for a 30mm 29er hookless rim but they have a 35mm 29er hookless in development now and they should be available in 5 weeks or so.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Still burping with the bontrager strips at about 25lbs. The ground control much more than the nobby nic on the front, and less sealant coming out per burp, but they're still doing it.

I never ever saw sealant squirt out of the bead with stans rims, even at 20psi. (Unless I did something bad that nearly ripped the tire off the rim)


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

wallerbj said:


> Spoke with Nancy via Live Support last night and she indicated they have no plans for a 30mm 29er hookless rim but they have a 35mm 29er hookless in development now and they should be available in 5 weeks or so.


Bummer - I was hoping for something in the 30 mm range; 35 mm just seems like too big of a jump. Looks like the 27 mm hookless rims are my best option for now.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

92gli said:


> Still burping with the bontrager strips at about 25lbs. The ground control much more than the nobby nic on the front, and less sealant coming out per burp, but they're still doing it.
> 
> I never ever saw sealant squirt out of the bead with stans rims, even at 20psi. (Unless I did something bad that nearly ripped the tire off the rim)


Big S tires don't fit particularly well on Bonty strips unfortunately, there are other tires that do exceedingly well if you are willing to make a change.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

They didn't call the company "Specialized Bike Parts" for nothing.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Big S tires don't fit particularly well on Bonty strips unfortunately, there are other tires that do exceedingly well if you are willing to make a change.


Do tell. I've never seen any discussions about that. I'm sick of the wimpy sidewalls of the spech control casing tires.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

wallerbj said:


> ... no plans for a 30mm 29er hookless rim ...


I thought that their current "Wider carbon mountain 29er rims" were 30mm wide (23 mm interior)? I saw that they have listed a 26er - 33mm wide rim.

Did they mention how much the 35mm wide rims would weigh? I have read some other threads on the how wide is too wide, so I wonder how these would do? Seems that too wide makes the 2.0 - 2.4 wide tires more square.


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## wallerbj (Sep 6, 2007)

journey said:


> I thought that their current "Wider carbon mountain 29er rims" were 30mm wide (23 mm interior)? I saw that they have listed a 26er - 33mm wide rim. .


The current 29 inch "wide" rims are 30mm with 23mm interior width. Not sure why they are not going to offer the 30mm in a hookless bead. My guess is that the current 30mm has been quite popular and they don't see a need to change it.



journey said:


> Did they mention how much the 35mm wide rims would weigh? I have read some other threads on the how wide is too wide, so I wonder how these would do? Seems that too wide makes the 2.0 - 2.4 wide tires more square.


I asked Nancy for a cross section of the 35mm hookless rim but she could not provide one at this point. Didn't ask her about weight.

The Derby rims are 35mm wide and are getting good initial reviews. I think it boils down to personal preference and what kind of ride characteristics you are looking to achieve.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

wallerbj said:


> The current 29 inch "wide" rims are 30mm with 23mm interior width. Not sure why they are not going to offer the 30mm in a hookless bead. My guess is that the current 30mm has been quite popular and they don't see a need to change it.


I believe someone had asked Nancy a while back and was posted earlier. I want to say it was because they copied the design from another manufacturer like specialized or royal. Someone who obviously had a hookless bead design.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

DRILLINDK said:


> I believe someone had asked Nancy a while back and was posted earlier. I want to say it was because they copied the design from another manufacturer like specialized or royal. Someone who obviously had a hookless bead design.


What, these guys can't come up with an original design?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

The misinformation posted on this thread makes my head hurt.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

DeeZee said:


> The misinformation posted on this thread makes my head hurt.


You said it! I just finished reading all 183 pages.


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

Any chance of a helpful paragraph or 2 then?

Which misinformation? Is it critical stuff or puff? Coz I for one am about to gave a go at these rims for durability reasons


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## usn.mustanger (Jun 26, 2011)

pharmaboy said:


> Any chance of a helpful paragraph or 2 then?
> 
> Which misinformation? Is it critical stuff or puff? Coz I for one am about to gave a go at these rims for durability reasons


This. Please?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

92gli said:


> Do tell. I've never seen any discussions about that. I'm sick of the wimpy sidewalls of the spech control casing tires.


wait wait.....before we start bashing the Big S, like most people do, I have never had a problem seating the bead of any of my specialized tires on any of my wheels. I can even seat it with a floor pump on my tubeless set-up. Nowadays I use a compressor cause it's easy and fast. On my new light-bicycle rim I actually just put the tire on with no sealant or tubes and inflated it just to see how good the wheel would hold up. I didn't leak any air even after 2 hours. So I took it for a quick night ride on my street. I did 1 mile and it was still holding pressure. I was impressed with my tire, wheel, and gorilla tape. This was my first wheelbuild so I was happy with the result. Not even my other tire/rim combos can do that. I put some Stan's in there the next morning.


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

Mazukea said:


> wait wait.....before we start bashing the Big S, like most people do, I have never had a problem seating the bead of any of my specialized tires on any of my wheels. I can even seat it with a floor pump on my tubeless set-up. Nowadays I use a compressor cause it's easy and fast. On my new light-bicycle rim I actually just put the tire on with no sealant or tubes and inflated it just to see how good the wheel would hold up. I didn't leak any air even after 2 hours. So I took it for a quick night ride on my street. I did 1 mile and it was still holding pressure. I was impressed with my tire, wheel, and gorilla tape. This was my first wheelbuild so I was happy with the result. Not even my other tire/rim combos can do that. I put some Stan's in there the next morning.


I second this. My experience with the S-Work GroundControl front and rear is about the same. On the initial mount, I just used a floor pump and it was like inflating with tubes. The trick I learned from Stan's video is to keep both sides of bead in the center. Didn't use soap water, just plain water along the rims. I used yellow tape on both rims first, then re-taped one rim with Gorilla tape because it didn't hold pressure well. Turns out it is the WTB stem center not tightened. But Gorilla tape is much easier to apply. Had burps on first few rides, now my LB wheels with s-works GC tires are holding pressure very well.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

PeterQ said:


> Now we have wide carbon mtb rims available.
> 
> Here are some pictures and geometries for reference, some are pictures of BSS IP-M935C wide wheels for thru axles.
> 
> ...


I find it absolutely amazing how a guy like Derby can go through a tremendous amount of research and put his money and time into a project and develop a specialized product like his wide rims and have people on this forum ask manufacturers in China to make a similar design and compete with him before he has time to recoup his investment.

By the time you ship these Chinese rims to the USA and charged the Paypal fees, you are looking at $200 per rim.....so for $100 more , AND buying a rim from a USA based company with much better warranties, you sell a guy out that lives to mountain bike just like us. The employees from these Chinese companies don't even ride bikes.....incredible, no wonder America has gone to crap.......and you know the funny part....I am Chinese, born in the USA. I know a lot of what goes on over there and hope that one day the world can stop this intellectual theft.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that it is less expensive to manufacturer and they are providing a decent product at a cheaper price. But if I were looking for a rim that was designed in USA by a fellow rider and made in China or buy the same thing from a Chinese company, I would go USA. The biggest advantage of buying USA is the warranty, and the cost of shipping.....but no one looks at that till they have to.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Mazukea said:


> wait wait.....before we start bashing the Big S, like most people do, I have never had a problem seating the bead of any of my specialized tires on any of my wheels. I can even seat it with a floor pump on my tubeless set-up. Nowadays I use a compressor cause it's easy and fast. On my new light-bicycle rim I actually just put the tire on with no sealant or tubes and inflated it just to see how good the wheel would hold up. I didn't leak any air even after 2 hours. So I took it for a quick night ride on my street. I did 1 mile and it was still holding pressure. I was impressed with my tire, wheel, and gorilla tape. This was my first wheelbuild so I was happy with the result. Not even my other tire/rim combos can do that. I put some Stan's in there the next morning.





jlian said:


> I second this. My experience with the S-Work GroundControl front and rear is about the same. On the initial mount, I just used a floor pump and it was like inflating with tubes. The trick I learned from Stan's video is to keep both sides of bead in the center. Didn't use soap water, just plain water along the rims. I used yellow tape on both rims first, then re-taped one rim with Gorilla tape because it didn't hold pressure well. Turns out it is the WTB stem center not tightened. But Gorilla tape is much easier to apply. Had burps on first few rides, now my LB wheels with s-works GC tires are holding pressure very well.


You guys are talking about mounting, tape, which type of pump, etc... I'm way past that. Yes, specialized tires were amazing for me on my stans rims. With these rims my Spech tire is burping constantly at a higher pressure than I've ever ran before. 2 rides with tape, 2 rides with bontrager strips. Less burping with the strips but still a problem.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

92gli said:


> Still burping with the bontrager strips at about 25lbs. The ground control much more than the nobby nic on the front, and less sealant coming out per burp, but they're still doing it.
> 
> I never ever saw sealant squirt out of the bead with stans rims, even at 20psi. (Unless I did something bad that nearly ripped the tire off the rim)


I assume you got the 29"er Rhythm strips?

I have had zero problems and zero burps on mine since the day the rims arrived using the strips. Nobby Nics have never burbed, Ikons have never burped, and Specialized Renegades have never burped. Pressures from 17 psi - 27 psi. And in all cases, mounting the tires was a very, very tight fit.


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

pharmaboy said:


> Any chance of a helpful paragraph or 2 then?
> 
> Which misinformation? Is it critical stuff or puff? Coz I for one am about to gave a go at these rims for durability reasons


I guess non critical info. It would be nice to kill this thread and start three or four new ones.

1. What tires work / don't work for LB rims?
2. Long term ride report for LB rims?
3. Listing of carbon rims and reviews.

Something along those lines.


----------



## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> I assume you got the 29"er Rhythm strips?


Yep. All I can think of at this point, is that the tire is too stretched out. I'll get something new, probably a rocket ron evo snakeskin, and cross my fingers.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

92gli said:


> You guys are talking about mounting, tape, which type of pump, etc... I'm way past that. Yes, specialized tires were amazing for me on my stans rims. With these rims my Spech tire is burping constantly at a higher pressure than I've ever ran before. 2 rides with tape, 2 rides with bontrager strips. Less burping with the strips but still a problem.


You could have something wrong with your tire(s). I have three mbikes and all have Special Ed tires. Two with LB carbons and one Stan's Arch. All three have no issues running just tape. I can remember but I think one of the LB carbons has Gorilla tape and the other Stan's tape. Haven't had the need to run the Bonti strips that seem to be required with other tires.


----------



## JonathanM (Jun 23, 2009)

Finally got mine built up. Not sure what spokes were used, I just asked my LBS to use something super strong. 32 Hole 650b reinforced versions laced to Hadley w/XD driver.


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## JonathanM (Jun 23, 2009)

a hair over 1700 grams. I'm assuming that's mainly due to heavy duty spokes, brass nipples and some of the heavier hubs out there (Hadley)


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

DeeZee said:


> I guess non critical info. It would be nice to kill this thread and start three or four new ones.
> 
> 1. What tires work / don't work for LB rims?
> 2. Long term ride report for LB rims?
> ...


Wish that would work, but youd still have people too lazy to read every post, even if only 2 pages long. They'd ask the same questions over and over making the thread 10 pages long with only a handfull of useful/informational posts.

The only way to combat this is to simply ignore the people who ask questions which blatantly refuse to read the thread...


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

JonathanM said:


> a hair over 1700 grams. I'm assuming that's mainly due to heavy duty spokes, brass nipples and some of the heavier hubs out there (Hadley)


Oh boy..........heavier but worth it.........Hadley is nice stuff!


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

sooooo... whats the general consensus on what weave has the most durability? I read through this whole thread at one point an it seemed like early production was having problem with anything but the UD matte because of layering issues? I was hoping to go with 3K matte.. thanks in advance..


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

3k is theoretically the strongest. Matte or glossy doesn't matter but matte seems to look better longer in my opinion.


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## Phil S (Mar 12, 2008)

The finish weave is purely the top layer before the clearcoat. The structural stuff will all be the same underneath. For example mine are UD finish but looking through the spoke holes you can see it is 3k weave internally.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

manchvegas said:


> sooooo... whats the general consensus on what weave has the most durability? I read through this whole thread at one point an it seemed like early production was having problem with anything but the UD matte because of layering issues? I was hoping to go with 3K matte.. thanks in advance..


The finish wrap doesn't matter... theoretically or otherwise.

These rims are sort of a crap shoot. Place your bet.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

3 sets of 30mm wide LB rims amongst my riding buddies. One set did the entire NUE season, MTB Nationals, etc. and came out unscathed. Another set did 12 XC races under a 200 pound basher. Perfect. Another set pumped out thousands of miles. Not one issue. Varying from 28 to 32H, 3K and UD, glossy and matte.

I just ordered another set.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> These rims are sort of a crap shoot. Place your bet.


Why is that?


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I am curious too.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

epiphreddy said:


> I am curious too.


I will take a stab at this...you are riding a product that has absolutely no engineering behind it. These manufacturers started duplicating aluminum rims in the beginning, they have gotten a little better and increasing the strength where needed, however they tend to react to problems. Take for instance the thickness of the lip...they are still less than or around 2mm, where some of the newer stronger designs are 3mm , 50 percent thicker where it is important. None of these manufacturers actually ride. Take LB for instance, they will create a new mold if enough customers ask them to do so....hell of a Research and Development Program if you ask me. In addition, they do absolutely no Beta testing, that is what they have you do.....

Now, if you were to actually look for the address posted on LB website, it does not exist. I verified this. If you take the return address on the mailing label (huli road) and do a google earth search, you will end up at an apartment building. But why is this important? The more important question to ask is why are they hiding this info.......oh, every manufacturer has to be registered with the Govt of China.....they are not. Do your research, that is why we have the internet. Don't take my word for it.


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

YaMon said:


> I will take a stab at this...you are riding a product that has absolutely no engineering behind it. These manufacturers started duplicating aluminum rims in the beginning, they have gotten a little better and increasing the strength where needed, however they tend to react to problems. Take for instance the thickness of the lip...they are still less than or around 2mm, where some of the newer stronger designs are 3mm , 50 percent thicker where it is important. None of these manufacturers actually ride. Take LB for instance, they will create a new mold if enough customers ask them to do so....hell of a Research and Development Program if you ask me. In addition, they do absolutely no Beta testing, that is what they have you do.....
> 
> Now, if you were to actually look for the address posted on LB website, it does not exist. I verified this. If you take the return address on the mailing label (huli road) and do a google earth search, you will end up at an apartment building. But why is this important? The more important question to ask is why are they hiding this info.......oh, every manufacturer has to be registered with the Govt of China.....they are not. Do your research, that is why we have the internet. Don't take my word for it.


YaMon, we know you had a bad experience trying to import and make money off light bicycle rims, but does that mean they're bad? Some people reading your responses may not have seen your previous comments, and might take your advice with more than a grain of salt. Have you started importing another manufacturers rims? If so, tell us about them instead of constantly trying to tear someone else down.

It seems MANY people have been using the light bicycle rims successfully across a number of applications (XC, AM, DH). While YaMon may have some advice on how they should build their rims, they seem to be holding up fairly well for a good number of us.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

tiflow_21 said:


> YaMon, we know you had a bad experience trying to import and make money off light bicycle rims, but does that mean they're bad? Some people reading your responses may not have seen your previous comments, and might take your advice with more than a grain of salt. Have you started importing another manufacturers rims? If so, tell us about them instead of constantly trying to tear someone else down.
> 
> It seems MANY people have been using the light bicycle rims successfully across a number of applications (XC, AM, DH). While YaMon may have some advice on how they should build their rims, they seem to be holding up fairly well for a good number of us.


Yes, but the fact of the matter is everything I have said is true....if it was false or I was lying that would be another story. Why do you stick your head in the sand ? I do have photos of inside the factory that makes their rims and you can clearly see that they cut their carbon fiber with scissors and a large paper cutter vs. Enve that uses one of those plotter/cutters that cuts it precisely. You wanted to know what the differences were and I have given you my opinion. This is the internet, it is not all good......why do you look the other way when a negative is mentioned ?? As I said before, do your research, I did......

And by the way...about your comment about making money off of LB.....the money would be made from ordering 200 pairs and shipping them by bulk, the money is made from the shipping. However, when LB could not produce an export license, I knew something was wrong.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Comparing to Enve is laughable. These rims are $165 each and the Enve??? I have a set that is holding up great and they ride great, in fact I am about to build up another set. 
Who gives a crap if they don't have an address that makes you happy? And Beta testing? 
Many manufacturers do this. Happens all the time.
Anyways, you are welcome to your opinion, but you have not said anything to change my mind.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Now back to a question about building these rims up into a wheel: I swapped rims from a Stans Arch EX to the Light Bicycle carbon wide rims on a Hope Evo Pro II disc front wheel. The LB rims state a max tension of 180kgf. Anyways I have the wheel totally trued and dished and the disc side measurements are all between 22 (137kgf) to 24(174kgf) on the Parktool tensionometer with DT Swiss Supercomp spokes with most of them around 23. Is this acceptable or is it too tight?


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

epiphreddy said:


> Who gives a crap if they don't have an address that makes you happy?


OMG...I am laughing so hard right now, I have a stomach cramp.....are you serious ?? Well you are either very young, work for someone and get a paycheck every week, or never negotiated a deal before....."Who gives a crap if they don't have an address". I could think of a few people:

1.Bank
2. Suppliers
3. Customers
4. Gov't Agency that regulates industries.
5. Creditors.
6. Etc....

Well, I think that is about all I can take tonight. You are a funny guy.

BTW - Those machines they use to cut the carbon fiber are not very expensive, your local sign shop has one......but you obviously prefer the more accurate scissor method....


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

YaMon said:


> OMG...I am laughing so hard right now, I have a stomach cramp.....are you serious ?? Well you are either very young, work for someone and get a paycheck every week, or never negotiated a deal before....."Who gives a crap if they don't have an address". I could think of a few people:
> 
> 1.Bank
> 2. Suppliers
> ...


So does it then become the ultimate in free market then- you make the product and the product stands on its own and the marketplace decides whether it's good enough to survive or not?

They must supply others in an oem capacity. There is no way you can invest and start up an ebay based seller with enough turnover to run manufacturing. To do that you need almost nil setup costs, and that comes from shifting production out the back door, at night etc. I am not surprised at hidden address as this speaks to the issue of not disclosing oem status to your contracts.

I bought some carbon bars that were stupid cheap FSA - so considered that they must be counterfeit. However, when they arrived they were identical in layup and small details like the join on the inside of the bar. Can only assume that a batch failed quality for printing, excess to order or whatever, but they sold on ebay for around 6 months for $30 and now no sign of them, so the batch was disposed of through ebay.

I sure wouldn't buy these rims when they first came out, but now we are getting to a fair deal of collective experience.

The Chinese don't need to do the enve r and d, they copy product just like the Japanese did postwar.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

pharmaboy said:


> So does it then become the ultimate in free market then- you make the product and the product stands on its own and the marketplace decides whether it's good enough to survive or not?
> 
> Finally...someone with sensible questions.These companies that are starting to pop up are not OEM manufacturers. They used to be, but got dropped and because they were taught the know how, they started to manufacturer for themselves. The production is very cheap, hence ...cutting the carbon strips by hand. LB also makes carbon hockey sticks and other sporting goods. I do not know if they are OEM for those products. There are several that were started by former employees and have never been an OEM mfr. This is why they are "forced" to go through EBay and MTBR and other sources to sell their products...they do not have any other choices. I was blown away when I found out LB did not have an export license..and why should they, they sell 2 rims at a time. If they were an OEM supplier, they would have an export license. Ever wonder why LB sometimes takes awhile to make their rims ?? This is because they do not have any inventory. What do you think went through my mind when I was about to place an order for 400 rims ?? What would happen to their retail/internet operation? What would the quality of my rims be? since they are going to be rushing this order like crazy ... I am not saying they are not a good deal at $200 ( including Paypal and shipping). It is a completely different story if you buy in much larger quantities..


You have $400 to lose, I had a lot more. Here is another scenario...girl cutting the carbon fiber and it is 4:45 on a Friday before a holiday. Instead of going back to the storeroom and getting a new sheet of carbon fiber, she allows one that is 2" short to go through. This piece makes it into production and the rim is made. Their is only resin and no carbon fiber in a 2" section. You are riding downhill and the rim explodes and you are now paralysed. The rim is obviously at fault, so who do you sue?? can't find the mfr. because they are listed as a Trading Company and can close shop and reopen in another name ( BTW...LB has done this before). So you now come after the US based company that imported these rims because they could not be so stupid as to import them without knowing what these rims are about.....and there lies your answer as to why I am now looking at making carbon fiber Lacrosse Sticks....bigger market and lots of parents that want to spend $150 on a hollow carbon fiber tube.....

Oops, start reading my response from inside the blue box....


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> .....and there lies your answer as to why I am now looking at making carbon fiber Lacrosse Sticks....bigger market and lots of parents that want to spend $150 on a hollow carbon fiber tube.....


Don't you mean "importing, relabeling, and reselling" lacrosse sticks, as opposed to "making" them?
Am I getting it right that you have access to a small amount of capital and want to offer mark-up and marketing but no responsibility?


YaMon said:


> Oops, start reading my response from inside the blue box....


Just edit your post to read correctly. :thumbsup:


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

YaMon said:


> You have $400 to lose, I had a lot more. Here is another scenario...girl cutting the carbon fiber and it is 4:45 on a Friday before a holiday. Instead of going back to the storeroom and getting a new sheet of carbon fiber, she allows one that is 2" short to go through. This piece makes it into production and the rim is made. Their is only resin and no carbon fiber in a 2" section. You are riding downhill and the rim explodes and you are now paralysed. The rim is obviously at fault, so who do you sue?? can't find the mfr. because they are listed as a Trading Company and can close shop and reopen in another name ( BTW...LB has done this before). So you now come after the US based company that imported these rims because they could not be so stupid as to import them without knowing what these rims are about.....and there lies your answer as to why I am now looking at making carbon fiber Lacrosse Sticks....bigger market and lots of parents that want to spend $150 on a hollow carbon fiber tube.....
> 
> Oops, start reading my response from inside the blue box....


While you raise more than a couple of excellent points, they will be wasted on most that read them unfortunately.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> Don't you mean "importing, relabeling, and reselling" lacrosse sticks, as opposed to "making" them?
> Am I getting it right that you have access to a small amount of capital and want to offer mark-up and marketing but no responsibility?


I read it as not willing to accept an unreasonable amount of liability. Look at Derby, within weeks his wide rims will have been pirated by one of these nonexistent "companies" with little or no recourse available to him. I wouldn't do volume business with them either.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Don't you mean "importing, relabeling, and reselling" lacrosse sticks, as opposed to "making" them?. :thumbsup:


Nope. Fly to china and tell them you want to buy lacrosse sticks and watch their response....blank. What you have to do is take several types of sticks and have them made from CB. You have to develop the test for a lot of properties to get the right "feel", stiffness, flex, etc. the good thing about this product is they know nothing about the sport and have no clue how to market it.....bicycle rims...they been riding bikes for hundreds of years and have many connections.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

There has to be some level of engineering and quality control or they couldn't do what they are doing. There has to be some consciousness on quality. This all varies though.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Dirty $anchez said:


> I read it as not willing to accept an unreasonable amount of liability. Look at Derby, within weeks his wide rims will have been pirated by one of these nonexistent "companies" with little or no recourse available to him. I wouldn't do volume business with them either.


That is why I like you.....you get it.....you understand how the whole operates and not only the parts.....


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

and I should add that quite a lot of people are having success with them. 

However the points you make is the wildcard in the equation. 

I'm just having a balanced approach.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

zephxiii said:


> There has to be some level of engineering and quality control or they couldn't do what they are doing. There has to be some consciousness on quality. This all varies though.


I am very tempted to post some of the pics...but I will not. Their factory sits on the third floor above a moped manufacturer. Their workers walk around in slippers...I kid you not...you will be amazed just how many rims you can make with four molds over a twenty four hour period.....yes, twenty four.....you need to understand how the Chinese manufacturers operate.

Most major cities have a Chinese chamber of commerce that you can contact and research companies over there. They will come back with a recommend or do not recommend...guess what came back for LB?


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

zephxiii said:


> and I should add that quite a lot of people are having success with them.
> 
> However the points you make is the wildcard in the equation.
> 
> I'm just having a balanced approach.


I have never said that what they offer for the price is not good. Compared to ENVE and other high dollar rims, they are a bargain. But you should understand what the risks are. There is a lot to be said for a USA based company that offers a better warranty and can get a replacement to you in less than a week. Many of you up north cannot wait one month for a replacement. Again, buying two rims vs. four hundred are two different scenarios.....I am talking about the latter.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

YaMon said:


> I am very tempted to post some of the pics...but I will not. Their factory sits on the third floor above a moped manufacturer. Their workers walk around in slippers...I kid you not...you will be amazed just how many rims you can make with four molds over a twenty four hour period.....yes, twenty four.....you need to understand how the Chinese manufacturers operate.
> 
> Most major cities have a Chinese chamber of commerce that you can contact and research companies over there. They will come back with a recommend or do not recommend...guess what came back for LB?


I'd rather u not post the pics. But i know what you are saying and all.

I work in manufacturing and we do source a number of parts from China. They however build to our drawings and materials specifications, and we inspect the parts in a very detailed manner as we receive them (you would do so with ANY vendor). From a manufacturing/supplier standpoint, China has a lot to offer.

Following this thread for all this year, and the results of their product, they seem to be doing well (in part performance).

This does not exclude them from what potentially could go wrong.

In my view, an operation like this has a ton of potential, it isn't that hard to dial in the engineering and quality control on something like this that is performing as well as it is already. That to me is an opportunity.

I just find it interesting because...the **** we are trying to do at work is way harder than this lol.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

YaMon said:


> I have never said that what they offer for the price is not good. Compared to ENVE and other high dollar rims, they are a bargain. But you should understand what the risks are. There is a lot to be said for a USA based company that offers a better warranty and can get a replacement to you in less than a week. Many of you up north cannot wait one month for a replacement. Again, buying two rims vs. four hundred are two different scenarios.....I am talking about the latter.


yeah, buying 400 u r going to have some fallout. always. it's the percentage of it that counts and catching it. Best Buy I'm sure returns a lot of stuff back to the manuf. because of problems.

The money u saved by not spending Enve, you could buy spare LB wheels and your downtime would be minutes!  #justsaying

Then, why buy Enve when u could get Spec' Roval Carbon for 1200 or less? (sadly no 27.5)

Also keep in mind, when Pinkbike was testing a set of Enve carbon wheels...they destroyed a wheel. **** can happen anywhere.

Yes, LB has that little extra risk. I've been watching how their stuff has performed...it's been doing pretty good for what it is. Risk is still there. But I like them because they also have that role of throwing in that competitive wildcard against those other companies like Enve etc. Market competition etc.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Taichung Bike show starts soon. This is the BIG one, the one that the bike manufacturers go to to cut their deals.......if you are a somebody, you will have a booth here.....just saying....


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

YaMon said:


> Taichung Bike show starts soon. This is the BIG one, the one that the bike manufacturers go to to cut their deals.......if you are a somebody, you will have a booth here.....just saying....


Any idea of who might be there? I've decided to go for the IP-056 frame, now I'm trying to decide on wheels.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

YaMon said:


> Taichung Bike show starts soon. This is the BIG one, the one that the bike manufacturers go to to cut their deals.......if you are a somebody, you will have a booth here.....just saying....


Man I got to go to this! I need a new fork!


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

YaMon said:


> OMG...I am laughing so hard right now, I have a stomach cramp.....are you serious ?? Well you are either very young, work for someone and get a paycheck every week, or never negotiated a deal before....."Who gives a crap if they don't have an address". I could think of a few people:
> 
> 1.Bank
> 2. Suppliers
> ...


Young - No. Work for someone - yes Electrical Engineer for NASA. Negotiated a "deal" - Yes, have now bought (with no haggling) some of the best rims I have ever owned, 5 sets between me and two other friends. All have been phenomenal compared to the infamous Stans (junk in comparison) rims. What I meant to say is I don't give a crap about
1.Bank
2. Suppliers
3. Customers
4. Gov't Agency that regulates industries.
5. Creditors.
6. Physical address
7. Etc....
What I do give a crap about is performance of the rim, width, weight, stiffness, PRICE, ease of buildup, etc., etc.
These rims have not disappointed. 5 - 400 bets have all paid off.

I would ask if you have a set of these rims and how you felt they performed but you seem more interested in turning a profit on the very companies you are bashing for various reasons that have nothing to do with the actual performance of the product. There have been lots of people with very positive comments/experience with these rims. Before I bought them I PM'd a few folks that said they were equally as good as the Rovals and other high end wheels in which they owned both and had actual experience with. And the LB rims are substantially less money and apparently (to many at least) equally as good. To me, that is what the "Cheap" Chinese Carbon rims thread is about.

In the future do me a favor and don't take a "stab" at any of my questions when you have nothing useful to say.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Kawigreen99 said:


> Why is that?


Because they have done little to no actual design, they do little to no Q/C, they do little to no testing, and the warranty support they offer is of questionable value. You may get a rim that works... you may also get one that has failed in the box... or one that fails during the wheel build... or one that fails in the middle if a downhill section... that's the crap shoot.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Dirty $anchez said:


> I read it as not willing to accept an unreasonable amount of liability. Look at Derby, within weeks his wide rims will have been pirated by one of these nonexistent "companies" with little or no recourse available to him. I wouldn't do volume business with them either.


I agree... but that's a business decision in my mind... part of the equation... not a justification for coming here and bashing them when a while back he was hoping to turn the opportunity into a personal profit.
It's just that the credibility and/or motivation is somewhat suspect it you were not long ago about to get in bed with them and are now expounding on the evils of the Chinese model, which is a reality (and not a new one), whether it is pretty or not.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> Because they have done little to no actual design, they do little to no Q/C, they do little to no testing, and the warranty support they offer is of questionable value. You may get a rim that works... you may also get one that has failed in the box... or one that fails during the wheel build... or one that fails in the middle if a downhill section... that's the crap shoot.


Do they not use a same/similar design as other proven carbon rims? And if they don't, is there a problem with the design?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> Nope. Fly to china and tell them you want to buy lacrosse sticks and watch their response....blank. What you have to do is take several types of sticks and have them made from CB. You have to develop the test for a lot of properties to get the right "feel", stiffness, flex, etc. the good thing about this product is they know nothing about the sport and have no clue how to market it.....bicycle rims...they been riding bikes for hundreds of years and have many connections.


Interesting.
You're just hoping to ride the wave of cheap Chinese manufacture without feeling the backlash of the lack of regulations and oversight that prevent the behaviors you don't like.
It may be smart, and you may beat them at the game and make a ton of money.
I find your justification for taking the moral high ground with respect to the evils of Chinese manufacturing while you attempt to exploit it for profit as hollow as... say... a carbon lacrosse stick? 
This is not a judgement... just an appreciation of irony.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Interesting.
> You're just hoping to ride the wave of cheap Chinese manufacture without feeling the backlash of the lack of regulations and oversight that prevent the behaviors you don't like.
> It may be smart, and you may beat them at the game and make a ton of money.
> I find your justification for taking the moral high ground with respect to the evils of Chinese manufacturing while you attempt to exploit it for profit as hollow as... say... a carbon lacrosse stick?
> This is not a judgement... just an appreciation of irony.


You cannot group all Chinese carbon manufacturers in a group like that. There are many great manufacturers that have a great business rating and approved by the Chamber of Commerce. I was talking to a manufacturing company that builds frames for Pinarello, Ambrosio Rims and Storck components. Very above board company, fantastic testing facility....Nothing like LB. Several of these companies also have a 2 million dollar world wide liability policy......who would you do business with ??

In my world, when you do a deal there is a certain amount of trust that is implied between both parties. I am very good at doing due diligence, a point I cannot stress enough. The first sign of any dishonesty is a game ender for me. In a small company, it is usually pervasive throughout.....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Kawigreen99 said:


> Do they not use a same/similar design as other proven carbon rims? And if they don't, is there a problem with the design?


All is well if there are no design changes. These companies will not develop new profiles and test them. They will copy and hope for the best......

The correct sequence of events is to hire an engineering firm ( lost likely located in Taiwan) and have them do the developmental / engineering / testing protocols. After that is complete, they will make the mold and send it to a manufacturer in China to produce. Most of the newer manufacturers coming up and selling on the internet are bypassing the engineering step and just making a copy of an existing rim. If there are any special processes that cannot be detected by the eye, they are going to miss it completely....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Kawigreen99 said:


> Any idea of who might be there? I've decided to go for the IP-056 frame, now I'm trying to decide on wheels.


Not open to the public. Attended by bicycle companies and guys that spec components mostly.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

YaMon said:


> All is well if there are no design changes. These companies will not develop new profiles and test them. They will copy and hope for the best......
> 
> The correct sequence of events is to hire an engineering firm ( lost likely located in Taiwan) and have them do the developmental / engineering / testing protocols. After that is complete, they will make the mold and send it to a manufacturer in China to produce. Most of the newer manufacturers coming up and selling on the internet are bypassing the engineering step and just making a copy of an existing rim. If there are any special processes that cannot be detected by the eye, they are going to miss it completely....


Are there any companies that are recommended? Or is this 'secret' information? It seems as if some companies are better than others, and while the LB rims seem to be popular, apparently they are not a recommended company. You seem to be 'in the know' when it comes to how the whole process works .


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

YaMon said:


> I am very tempted to post some of the pics...but I will not. Their factory sits on the third floor above a moped manufacturer. Their workers walk around in slippers...I kid you not...you will be amazed just how many rims you can make with four molds over a twenty four hour period.....yes, twenty four.....you need to understand how the Chinese manufacturers operate.


Post up the pictures!:thumbsup:


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Post up the pictures!:thumbsup:


You are an INSTIGATOR.....I think I am in enough trouble with the LB fan club...


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Kawigreen99 said:


> Are there any companies that are recommended? Or is this 'secret' information? It seems as if some companies are better than others, and while the LB rims seem to be popular, apparently they are not a recommended company. You seem to be 'in the know' when it comes to how the whole process works .


Now this is the big secret.....In general...Taiwanese Companies are very business oriented and trustworthy. China is a crapshoot. American companies and Taiwanese companies will hire someone to sit in the Chinese factories to do QC. There are about 50 Carbon Fiber Sporting Goods Mfrs. in China. They are all listed under a BTB/Alibaba website. I warn you to not join and fill out the Alibaba sheet because you will get inundated with SPAM. I practically had to dump an email address that I used to sign up. The Taiwanese companies will never divulge their mfrs.....

The simplest way to vet a company is to contact the Chinese Chamber of Commerce located in a few Major Cities and they will do the research. They know about all the bad deals that have happened in the past and trying to minimize that sort of thing. They try to fight the bad rap that China mfrs get and sometimes it is warrantied.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

epiphreddy said:


> Young - No. Work for someone - yes Electrical Engineer for NASA. Negotiated a "deal" - Yes, have now bought (with no haggling) some of the best rims I have ever owned, 5 sets between me and two other friends. All have been phenomenal compared to the infamous Stans (junk in comparison) rims. What I meant to say is I don't give a crap about
> 1.Bank
> 2. Suppliers
> 3. Customers
> ...


Well I think you have pretty much answered your question.... You are only focused on the end product. I look at production, distribution, marketing, sales, finance, etc. Those people that you PM'd...were they qualified to review the product or were they new users and happy to have been able to purchase a pair of carbon rims ?? As an engineer, were you involved with the sourcing and manufacturer of the product ?? Did it make a difference in your decision ?? If you walked into the production factory and saw that it was unorganized and dirty, would you install that product into one of your rockets ??


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

YaMon said:


> You are an INSTIGATOR.....I think I am in enough trouble with the LB fan club...


Nope. You said you had some "dirty pictures". We here at MTBR.com love "dirty pictures". So post 'em up. Show us your mettle.


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

YaMon said:


> Yes, but the fact of the matter is everything I have said is true....if it was false or I was lying that would be another story. Why do you stick your head in the sand ? I do have photos of inside the factory that makes their rims and you can clearly see that they cut their carbon fiber with scissors and a large paper cutter vs. Enve that uses one of those plotter/cutters that cuts it precisely. You wanted to know what the differences were and I have given you my opinion. This is the internet, it is not all good......why do you look the other way when a negative is mentioned ?? As I said before, do your research, I did......
> 
> And by the way...about your comment about making money off of LB.....the money would be made from ordering 200 pairs and shipping them by bulk, the money is made from the shipping. However, when LB could not produce an export license, I knew something was wrong.


I did my research, although it was different than yours. I knew of multiple people riding and racing the rims for well over a year before I finally made the decision to give them a try. I have now raced a full season on a pair (20+ races) with great luck. One of the guys I train with also picked a pair up at the beginning of the season and had the same experience.

I'm not arguing that ENVE makes better rims. They 100% do. However, I can't afford to buy a bunch of $800+ rims that I'm actually going to use and abuse on a regular basis. The ENVE rims aren't super light and use internal nips.... some might argue that isn't ideal. ENVE rims are great for some people, but it's nice to have options.

Light bike and the other chinese carbon rim manufacturers have brought prices down to the level that your average joe can finally start experimenting with the advantages of carbon fiber rims. I can't speak to how they're manufactured, but I can tell you they're working for people in the real world.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

tiflow_21 said:


> I did my research, although it was different than yours. I knew of multiple people riding and racing the rims for well over a year before I finally made the decision to give them a try. I have now raced a full season on a pair (20+ races) with great luck. One of the guys I train with also picked a pair up at the beginning of the season and had the same experience.
> 
> I'm not arguing that ENVE makes better rims. They 100% do. However, I can't afford to buy a bunch of $800+ rims that I'm actually going to use and abuse on a regular basis. The ENVE rims aren't super light and use internal nips.... some might argue that isn't ideal. ENVE rims are great for some people, but it's nice to have options.
> 
> Light bike and the other chinese carbon rim manufacturers have brought prices down to the level that your average joe can finally start experimenting with the advantages of carbon fiber rims. I can't speak to how they're manufactured, but I can tell you they're working for people in the real world.


EXACTLY! Well, except about the ENVE rims. Don't know about that, but since they are 4 TIMES the price I DO KNOW I am not going to buy them. And for the money, thus far, I don't know of any better rims than the LB rims. I would love for someone to mention some other comparable choices given weight, width, price, durability, etc., etc. 
Sure, there may be no warranty on them, but since some of the other choices are twice the price(or more), all you are doing is paying for insurance/warranty up front in the initial cost of the rim.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

tiflow_21 said:


> I did my research, although it was different than yours. I knew of multiple people riding and racing the rims for well over a year before I finally made the decision to give them a try. I have now raced a full season on a pair (20+ races) with great luck. One of the guys I train with also picked a pair up at the beginning of the season and had the same experience.


 I'll chime in here since I'm one of the local riders that talked to tiflow_21 about the LB rims....

I've been riding a pair of the LB wider 29"er rims since April 13, 2012. That's 18 months of use and abuse and still going strong. I've also got a pair of the Roval wider 29"er rims on another bike that I use for XC races which I have had for about the same time frame (a bit longer in months actually). I cannot discern the difference between the two pairs of rims outside of the price difference I paid for each. That gets back to the entire thread's discussion of a product being available that is lighter on the wallet, yet provides great performance. Obviously, by the time you add quality hubs, spokes and a build - a wheelset with LB rims still will cost one quite a chunk of change.

I still am calling out YaMon to show us the pictures he finds so disturbing of the LB rims being manufactured (without me actually uttering the words - put up or shut up)....

BB


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

epiphreddy said:


> EXACTLY! Well, except about the ENVE rims. Don't know about that, but since they are 4 TIMES the price I DO KNOW I am not going to buy them. And for the money, thus far, I don't know of any better rims than the LB rims. I would love for someone to mention some other comparable choices given weight, width, price, durability, etc., etc.
> Sure, there may be no warranty on them, but since some of the other choices are twice the price(or more), all you are doing is paying for insurance/warranty up front in the initial cost of the rim.


My goal was never to compare ENVE or any high end carbon rim with LB. I understand fully what the advantages of LB are. Just be careful...there are a bunch of new companies jumping on the wagon like Peter Q and Brian who used to work for LB is now with Nextus ?sp. The pie is only so big and eventually someone may end up getting hurt by a fly by night. Try and do diligence and know the risks.

You may pay more for a USA based company, but they have to make money and have to invest in inventory, liability insurance, pay decent wages, etc. So the question now comes down to how much profit is fair or what kind of premium are you willing to pay for quick turnaround, quick shipping, liability insurance. Also keep in mind that I am not talking about just buying in bulk from China and reselling here. I am talking about what Derby and NOX has done, designed a rim using their parameters to satisfy a market. What I hate to see is someone on this site tell those Chinese companies to copy these designs and compete with guys that have put their heart and soul into their products. basically get robbed before they can even recoup their investment.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> I still am calling out YaMon to show us the pictures he finds so disturbing of the LB rims being manufactured (without me actually uttering the words - put up or shut up)....
> 
> BB


I love your attempt at stirring the pot..it is admirable but quite obvious. When did the word "disturbing" come into play. All I said was I have photos of some of the workers sitting at their stations wearing slippers and showing the use of scissors and a paper cutter to cut the strips of carbon fiber. I also have photos of them spraying a finish on a carbon fiber hockey stick. If you don't believe me, then tough. I do not want to post those photos because it will only make this thread worst...hard to believe it could get any worst.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

YaMon said:


> I do not want to post those photos because it will only make this thread worst...hard to believe it could get any worst.


Can you start a new thread? I would like to see the pictures!

Thanks for the warning, but a lot of us here are more than willing to take a chance with these rim / companies.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

YaMon said:


> I love your attempt at stirring the pot..it is admirable but quite obvious. When did the word "disturbing" come into play. All I said was I have photos of some of the workers sitting at their stations wearing slippers and showing the use of scissors and a paper cutter to cut the strips of carbon fiber. I also have photos of them spraying a finish on a carbon fiber hockey stick. If you don't believe me, then tough. I do not want to post those photos because it will only make this thread worst...hard to believe it could get any worst.


So in other words....you have no pictures?


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> So in other words....you have no pictures?


See my PM to you, maybe after you read it you will understand. I cannot post those photos. You can call me out all you want. Just verify what all of my previous posts have been about and prove ONE thing incorrect.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

YaMon said:


> What I hate to see is someone on this site tell those Chinese companies to copy these designs and compete with guys that have put their heart and soul into their products. basically get robbed before they can even recoup their investment.


The global economy takes no prisoners! If heart and soul means they have a way to differentiate their product by including a service aspect that provides value, I am in.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

YaMon said:


> See my PM to you, maybe after you read it you will understand. I cannot post those photos. You can call me out all you want. Just verify what all of my previous posts have been about and prove ONE thing incorrect.


So the company website is all smoke and mirrors (pictures, address, facilties, management team, etc...)?



R&D

light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike Light-Bicycle

Location, Facilties, and Management Team

light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike Light-Bicycle



Should I disregard all of the information they provide and assume that the "real pictures" and knowledge you have of LB is quite a different picture than what they represent to us with the slick website?

And if we follow the address and LB's own posting of their location on Google Maps would result in us arriving at some apartment building that does not house their faciltiies?

light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike Light-Bicycle

I can think of a lot of cultures, and jobs where employees wear slippers and comfortable footwear while on duty at their job.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

All those "rim jobs" are in China because of cheap labour. If labour was as low in North America as it is in China, then these "rim jobs" would be here. Unfortunately there are no "rim jobs" here because no one would work here for such a low wage rate.


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

a) The chick in the second photo is cute, I would like to think she is Nancy.
b) Is anyone else excited by the idea of carbon fiber moped rims?
c) After two years of bookmarking this thread, I just bought some nancy wide carbon wheels, 32 spokes. I will have two guys who build wheels for a living check them before riding, and I will wade through 4700 posts to figure out what defects I should look for. 
d) Bruce, now that you see the photos and I assume more inside info from YoMon, do you have more/less/same confidence in your wheels that you did the day before...

Thanks!

THANKS to all who contributed.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> So the company website is all smoke and mirrors (pictures, address, facilties, management team, etc...)?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The photo of Light Bicycle on their website is a closed factory. There is nothing there. The company that actually manufacturers for LB is a completely different company. LB is a Trading Company.....all those photos posted is of a factory that LB buys from....You can sue the factory if you can find them...you cannot sue LB, that is how it is set up to be...Ok..here is a freebie.

do a search on Xiamen BECS carbon Fiber Company. Read the About Us section and compare it to LB Website....Odd ?? I know what I am talking about...


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

jvossman said:


> a) The chick in the second photo is cute, I would like to think she is Nancy.
> b) Is anyone else excited by the idea of carbon fiber moped rims?
> c) After two years of bookmarking this thread, I just bought some nancy wide carbon wheels, 32 spokes. I will have two guys who build wheels for a living check them before riding, and I will wade through 4700 posts to figure out what defects I should look for.
> d) Bruce, now that you see the photos and I assume more inside info from YoMon, do you have more/less/same confidence in your wheels that you did the day before...


He didn't provide any photos to me or on this thread. I just posted up photos that are available to all from the LB Company website.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

YaMon said:


> do a search on Xiamen BECS carbon Fiber Company. Read the About Us section and compare it to LB Website....Odd ?? I know what I am talking about...


Awe come on, spit it out! What do you want us to find?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

I think we all need to get some Light Bicycle T-Shirts!! COME ON!! I'll buy one for YaMon too


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

pucked up said:


> Awe come on, spit it out! What do you want us to find?


Nothing is free in life Grasshopper.....dig deeper and you will be wiser...


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Adroit Rider said:


> The global economy takes no prisoners! If heart and soul means they have a way to differentiate their product by including a service aspect that provides value, I am in.


What are you going to do when all the copiers make so that the designers aren't doing it anymore?

Take Derby, he designed a rim people wanted, if the chinese copy it and undercut him and you all flock to it, what is his motivation to do the 'next' rim design?
See that is the concept that is very simple yet seems so hard to grasp for many. These chinese companies arn't putting any R&D into new products, just taking someone elses work and coping it.

At some point you will drive out the guys trying to innovate, because all you care about is price, if they can't make a living recouping and profiting from their R&D costs, then who's going to do it?


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> What are you going to do when all the copiers make so that the designers aren't doing it anymore?
> 
> Take Derby, he designed a rim people wanted, if the chinese copy it and undercut him and you all flock to it, what is his motivation to do the 'next' rim design?
> See that is the concept that is very simple yet seems so hard to grasp for many. These chinese companies arn't putting any R&D into new products, just taking someone elses work and coping it.
> ...


Very well said Two Tone......In the end game, I do think that the people on these threads are the minority and a very small group. Bike shops are still in business and they take the lions share of the sales. The Chinese companies will not be able to sell to them for the exact reasons I have been posting....


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well Derby rims are $300 not $800 so when you consider that the LB rims are about $200 landed, it is worth it to buy from Derby as opposed to ENVE or direct from China. I think Derby has a great idea and will be successful although, I don't think he or anyone else will ever get "rich" doing what he is doing. In other words, he probably will never be able to quit his day job, but he might make an extra $10,000-30,000 a year in good years. If I ever do break my LB rims, I will probably replace them with Derby's.

I don't see what all the concern is. I have 6 LB rims that I have thrashed for a year with no problems. They have warrantied rims to others on the thread, it just takes time. Since I have 5 MTB's waiting a month for a replacement rim is not a big deal to me, it just makes it easier to decide what bike to ride today.

Taking this thread in another direction: Derby 29er rims weigh about 50 grams more than LB rims (390 vs 440). I will only use LB rims with the Bontrager rim strip (tires fit too loose without it for me to trust them not to burp) and that weighs 43 grams and the rim tape for a Derby would weigh 7 grams so the Derby is only 14 grams heavier, but also has a smaller ERD so the spokes will weigh less. When I count all the grams for the spokes, etc. it looks like the Derby might weigh about 4 grams more, but it is too close to call since unit to unit variation is much greater. Also, the Derby would need a longer valve stem adding a few more grams, but basically it looks like you are getting a much wider rim for a very very small weight penalty.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Can we please stay on topic here. This thread is long enough, but I don't want to search through a bunch of posts on China manufacturering, etc. If you don't have anything to add about the rims please do not post.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Exactly! THANK YOU......

Either buy the rims or not. Damn folks!



DRILLINDK said:


> Can we please stay on topic here. This thread is long enough, but I don't want to search through a bunch of posts on China manufacturering, etc. If you don't have anything to add about the rims please do not post.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

YES...Let's get back to talking about the rim jobs these Chinese companies make.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

pucked up said:


> YES...Let's get back to talking about the rim jobs these Chinese companies make.


I'm 43yo but damn its still funny when someone wants to talk about rim jobs.


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> What are you going to do when all the copiers make so that the designers aren't doing it anymore?
> 
> Take Derby, he designed a rim people wanted, if the chinese copy it and undercut him and you all flock to it, what is his motivation to do the 'next' rim design?
> See that is the concept that is very simple yet seems so hard to grasp for many. These chinese companies arn't putting any R&D into new products, just taking someone elses work and coping it.
> ...


For the end consumer companies copying others is a good thing. It forces competition/innovation to differentiate similar products. It happens with every other product we buy (ex: cars, food, dish soap, etc), so why is it out of bounds for rims? All of those 'other' generic products we buy may or may not be as good as the original, but we have the option to choose either. At what point does a company start jacking their margins up just for profit, especially if all the design work was done on year 1 and we're now in year 5 with very few minor adjustments? What if a company decides after creating one good design to sit back and not evolve their designs, cut costs, or reduce prices to stay relevant? Is that company going out of business the fault of the consumer for buying another brand, or the fault of the company that decided to avoid evolution?

I guarantee just about every one of us buys generic products on a nearly daily basis. Some may have even forgotten that mr pibb is a copy of dr pepper... and still prefer mr pibb. We're talking about commodities here, our job as consumers is to differentiate what we like and what we don't based on whatever research or tastes we deem fit.

In the end, competition should force derby (and others) to either differentiate the product through enhanced service/warranty, or continually re-design and re-engineer to ensure they're always on the cutting edge. There's a reason everyone isn't in business, it's not easy. Many are just looking for an easy buck, and many of those won't be around for long.

While companies like derby and november have good designs, they're essentially laying out a design (that has likely been done before, or very similar), having a third party manufacture it, and looking to charge a higher price than they paid to create a profit margin. There is testing involved, but the real world test is people out riding the rims... and you'll see many of these companies advertise they've had people riding the rims for a year+ as an aspect of their testing.

Most of us like the idea of cutting edge, but most aren't willing to pay for it. In terms of ENVE they were close to cutting edge years ago, but now they're just another good expensive option in a sea of carbon. Their mountain bike rims really haven't evolved/improved enough to maintain their insanely high price. Heck, it took them until about a year ago to even update their design to be tubeless ready. I for one really wanted ENVE rims when they were the only (or one of VERY few) carbon mtb rim manufacturers. However, I thought then, and still do, that $800 for a rim is insane and approaching $3k for a wheelset is not an option unless someone is buying the wheels for me. Now we have a ton of options, why is that a bad thing?

The point is, buy what makes you happy and what is within your budget. Don't buy something strictly because of the brand name or high price because it doesn't always equate to better. Business will work itself out, individual consumers cannot save a company if it isn't evolving and keeping their product(s) relevant.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

tiflow_21 said:


> . Business will work itself out, individual consumers cannot save a company if it isn't evolving and keeping their product(s) relevant.


That's the point you're missing, the Chinese aren't doing anything just coping, you can't maintain any business if you invest time and money to innovate only to have it copied and under cut.


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> That's the point you're missing, the Chinese aren't doing anything just coping, you can't maintain any business if you invest time and money to innovate only to have it copied and under cut.


So what is the solution? Ban anything generic?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

tiflow_21 said:


> So what is the solution? Ban anything generic?


Nooooo...I need my generic Viagra!

Now can we get back and post some more pictures of these Chinese rim jobs!


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## Diegobustillos (Dec 21, 2008)

Have any of you heard about these:
NEW-DESIGNED 35mm Wide Carbon Mountain Bike 650B Rim Clincher Tubeless Compatible [NXT650BC03]
They look pretty good and are wider than LB.


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

This is all pretty interesting stuff and anyone who isn't interested in the provenance of these rims, don't read further.

Quick google revealed from page 2 of this thread, that the BECS company was the manufacturer of these rims, and started up light bicycle to sell them outside of alibaba etc. so of course they are the same business, although separated legally. They are seperate legally in the same way that US companies limit liability by using incorporated businesses, transferring wealth outside of this businesses etc to protect themselves in case of being sued etc. it's how privately owned businesses are structured across the planet.

Ya mon had an idea of the moment , but upon following it up, decided the risk was higher than he was prepared to bare - that's fair enough. Second, if you are buying these because you think they are the specialized rims without stickers and packaging, you are mistaken. It's possible they are indeed correlated businesses and equivalent quality.

The evidence that the rims are a good option is within the thread. You may be unlucky, but for your money you will get a rim that will build a better wheel than a Stan's rim and if built well should last substantially longer and ride with a fair degree more stiffness .

If you were going to spend $1500 on a specialized or someone else's wheelset, you might be getting better product at nox or derby tbh, but chances are most of us are stretching our rim budget to include this option, not saving money by coming down.

My issue is what do I get reasonable value for - I cannot see any value in a $2k wheelset, I can see value in a $700 wheelset over a $400 one. Law of diminishing returns


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

I have had tires melt but so far no rims. That was back in the good old days of aluminum rims though.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

DRILLINDK said:


> Can we please stay on topic here. This thread is long enough, but I don't want to search through a bunch of posts on China manufacturering, etc. If you don't have anything to add about the rims please do not post.


Dirty $anchez was correct.....Id'd you to a T.....There are over 4500 threads and 99% keep saying the same thing over and over....nothing new....reminds me of a child coming home and watching the same bugs bunny cartoon over and over and over again....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Diegobustillos said:


> Have any of you heard about these:
> NEW-DESIGNED 35mm Wide Carbon Mountain Bike 650B Rim Clincher Tubeless Compatible [NXT650BC03]
> They look pretty good and are wider than LB.


Bruce B....what did I tell you ???


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

pharmaboy said:


> This is all pretty interesting stuff and anyone who isn't interested in the provenance of these rims, don't read further.
> 
> Quick google revealed from page 2 of this thread, that the BECS company was the manufacturer of these rims, and started up light bicycle to sell them outside of alibaba etc. so of course they are the same business, although separated legally. They are seperate legally in the same way that US companies limit liability by using incorporated businesses, transferring wealth outside of this businesses etc to protect themselves in case of being sued etc. it's how privately owned businesses are structured across the planet.
> 
> ...


Very good, you are 97% accurate. Mikesee might be able to add something when they switched from BECS to Light Bicycle......it is somewhere in these posts, I did not have the time to go back and find it...


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

pharmaboy said:


> This is all pretty interesting stuff and anyone who isn't interested in the provenance of these rims, don't read further.
> 
> Quick google revealed from page 2 of this thread, that the BECS company was the manufacturer of these rims, and started up light bicycle to sell them outside of alibaba etc. so of course they are the same business, although separated legally. They are seperate legally in the same way that US companies limit liability by using incorporated businesses, transferring wealth outside of this businesses etc to protect themselves in case of being sued etc. it's how privately owned businesses are structured across the planet.
> 
> ...


_Second, if you are buying these because you think they are the specialized rims without stickers and packaging, you are mistaken. It's possible they are indeed correlated businesses and equivalent quality._

FWIW I have seen first hand a rider (my buddy) destroy the Special ED Roval rim and my LBS warranty several dozen more. Also have seen that same rider ride LB rims for 2 years without an issue.

Just based on these observations the LB rims are higher quality.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i've seen one of the specialized rims break as well. our trail has a 25 foot long 180* burm . there's a jump you can hit an jump into it. the jump and burm are only a foot to two foot tall. so most people carry alot of speed hit the jump land 1/4 of the way into the burm and rail around and out. anyway this guy hit the jump landed and blew his front tire off the rim. wrong place wrong time and to much lateral force on the rim. it sounded like a candy cane breaking.


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

YaMon said:


> Very good, you are 97% accurate. Mikesee might be able to add something when they switched from BECS to Light Bicycle......it is somewhere in these posts, I did not have the time to go back and find it...


So for 3+ pages of this thread, you led others to come to this conclusion: LB is a trading/sales subsidiary of Xiamen BECS who actually makes the rims for LB and possibly other trading outfits. You could just state so in the first place.

Now we can go back to the regular discussion of LB rims and its pros and cons.

I'd say LB must have done enough right things to generate such big interests shown by the number and depth of posts on this thread. It may not be doing much testing of its own rims, but there look to be enough riders willing to do actual trail testing for them. Thanks to the early adopters being the Guinea Pig for 2+ years, many of us could afford to enjoy the benefit of carbon rims.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Well said jlian. My LB rims have been phenomenal. The threads relevant posts regarding the performance of the rims helped me make this choice. I (like many others) could not give a rats ass about if the working environment was clean, if they wore shoes, sandals, barefoot, if they spent $$ on R&D, what testing they did. All I need to know is there are hundreds of posts proving how good the rims are and my experience has been no exception.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Ordered another set. ERD is listed 603, mine measured 602 and 601.5

Building 2X with Sapim Laser black spokes from Dan's Comp. DS brass nipples, ND alloy. Price per spoke was 95 cent with brass and $1.14 with alloy. Shipping was $9.55 and I could not find free shipping or coupon this time.

Rims showed up in less than week from LB.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

westin said:


> Ordered another set. ERD is listed 603, mine measured 602 and 601.5
> 
> Building 2X with Sapim Laser black spokes from Dan's Comp. DS brass nipples, ND alloy. Price per spoke was 95 cent with brass and $1.14 with alloy. Shipping was $9.55 and I could not find free shipping or coupon this time.
> 
> Rims showed up in less than week from LB.


Maybe the new process need an update on the ERD... By the way, I will dismount all tires from my wheels this winter and apply a small amount of lubricant on nipples to avoid the well discuted galvanic corrosion.

I ordered a road wheelset and couple of road rims from LB. THIS IS NOT THE SAME GAME AS PER 29ER RIMS! It's not easy to have nice basalt brake track and the lead time is soooo long. But, they are so light!!!!


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

mat g said:


> Maybe the new process need an update on the ERD... By the way, I will dismount all tires from my wheels this winter and apply a small amount of lubricant on nipples to avoid the well discuted galvanic corrosion.
> 
> I ordered a road wheelset and couple of road rims from LB. THIS IS NOT THE SAME GAME AS PER 29ER RIMS! It's not easy to have nice basalt brake track and the lead time is soooo long. But, they are so light!!!!


Mat please provide a follow-up report on the road wheels.........I have my eye on them


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I would also like a report on how good the braking is w/ the basalt brake track. TIA.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Andy13 said:


> I would also like a report on how good the braking is w/ the basalt brake track. TIA.


The braking is amazing on the basalt brake track! I run the U-shaped clinchers as my training/pit wheel for CX. The braking performance is better on the basalt than my previous Ultegra 6700 rims I used. I'm using TRP 8.7 Mini-V's. There was a hint of pulsing early on, but I think the brake track is well worn in now with pads. I'm using the Red TRP carbon/aluminum pads made by Swiss Stop. I've used these in everything from dry roads, to hot and dusty, sand, hub deep Pac NW mud. The braking is always excellent.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Looking for some light but strong road rims too...mainly for climbing here in Colorado, but then of course, you have to bomb down the other side. It is hard to tell what carbon the overseas manufacturers use, so I am a bit wary.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks Matt, I would use them for CX too.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> The braking is amazing on the basalt brake track! I run the U-shaped clinchers as my training/pit wheel for CX. The braking performance is better on the basalt than my previous Ultegra 6700 rims I used. I'm using TRP 8.7 Mini-V's. There was a hint of pulsing early on, but I think the brake track is well worn in now with pads. I'm using the Red TRP carbon/aluminum pads made by Swiss Stop. I've used these in everything from dry roads, to hot and dusty, sand, hub deep Pac NW mud. The braking is always excellent.


So do the U shaped have the basalt brake track? Or is that something extra? The U shaped look to be $170 according to the light-bicycle website, is that with the basalt brake track?


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

anybody receive any nancy wheels this week? How long was the delay since you ordered them. Just wondering...


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i payed for my hookless on oct 12. i emailed last friday and today but haven't heard anything. all i have is my paypal reciept and knowing it took a month to get my 27.5. atleast with the 27.5, they told me they had to be sent back to the paint line.


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Full Carbon Clincher Rims 29er Wheelset Mountain Bike MTB 29" Wheel Size | eBay

Anyone tried these cheaper than cheap wheelsets?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Almost 2000 grams for the set, no thanks.


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

Just got my 35mm carbon clincher RM935C AM wheels from iPlay! (The ones with the TI wire in the lip) Everything about them looks solid. Weight with 15mm thru and 142x12 came to 765g & 830g (1595g total). I'm also impressed that the rear hub is 48poe (points of engagement). I put a layer of gorilla tape in them and then a tube which I'll let sit overnight to press down the tape well before going tubeless. They were also very true, no detectable wobble at all. So far I'm very pleased but won't be able to ride them for at least another week...









Edit:
Here is the info on the build:
Front Hub: Bitex MTF 100x15
Rear Hub : Bitex MTR 142x12
Sapim CX-Delta Spokes
Sapim nipples


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## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

Ufdah said:


> Just got my 35mm carbon clincher RM935C AM wheels from iPlay! (The ones with the TI wire in the lip) Everything about them looks solid. Weight with 15mm thru and 142x12 came to 765g & 830g (1595g total). I'm also impressed that the rear hub is 48poe (points of engagement). I put a layer of gorilla tape in them and then a tube which I'll let sit overnight to press down the tape well before going tubeless. They were also very true, no detectable wobble at all. So far I'm very pleased but won't be able to ride them for at least another week...


Awesome, do you know if these hubs are XX1 compatible? Also, what was the delivered time and price?
Thanks


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

These hubs aren't XX1 compatible but Peter says that they have a 9mm QR hub that is.

As far as cost goes I'd recommend contacting iPlay for a quote but I can tell you that I paid just under $730 shipped. That includes the paypal transfer fee, $40 upgrade for through axles, and $80 shipping.

Shipping was very reasonable, it only took one week to get here. Of course this will vary as to if you catch two weekends or just one and how fast customs releases it...


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Charging the Paypal transfer fee to the customer isn't legal per PPs terms of service, the seller can be banned and forced to refund the fee to all previous customers..


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Vegard said:


> Charging the Paypal transfer fee to the customer isn't legal per PPs terms of service, the seller can be banned and forced to refund the fee to all previous customers..


You think vendors like IPlay give a ****?


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

LOL i bought the same cheap luggage scale off ebay to weigh my $hit.


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## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

Ufdah said:


> These hubs aren't XX1 compatible but Peter says that they have a 9mm QR hub that is.


Thanks for the info. Bert emailed back and said he didn't know what XX1 was. Maybe the language barrier, but that didn't inspire confidence.

Now, why did you go that route instead of LB?


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

Because I wanted 35mm rims so I could run a Knard up front and it was the cheapest wide rim available now. I maybe should have gone w/ Derby rims but that would have been a couple hundred more.


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## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

Ufdah said:


> Because I wanted 35mm rims so I could run a Knard up front and it was the cheapest wide rim available now. I maybe should have gone w/ Derby rims but that would have been a couple hundred more.


Gotcha, thanks! They look good in your photo's, just keep us posted after a few rides.


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

White Bear said:


> Thanks for the info. Bert emailed back and said he didn't know what XX1 was. Maybe the language barrier, but that didn't inspire confidence.
> ?


Check out this post from the Chinese Carbon 29er thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=10798375


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## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

Ufdah said:


> Check out this post from the Chinese Carbon 29er thread: Chinese Carbon 29er - Page 247


So it looks like they also build with Novatec, so XX1 is possible. That photo is exactly what I would want with 35mm w/ rims.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

White Bear said:


> So it looks like they also build with Novatec, so XX1 is possible. That photo is exactly what I would want with 35mm w/ rims.


Yeah the price of the wheel set with XX1 hubs is reasonable. The price of the XX1 cassette is not!


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> You think vendors like IPlay give a ****?


They should give a **** because that is the only way they can receive funds.....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

PeterQ said:


> In fact, the commission is charged by Paypal, not any other company. The quotation we declare for each item doesn't include paypal fee, but when you buy them, buyers should afford the comission, I think this is fair, when you order on eBay or Alibaba, you do need to pay the commission.


You need to read your contract with Paypal. What part of "Buyer Pays No Fees" don't you understand?? You have to include in your price.....


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

Peter, I think you ought to take this seriously and read the User Agreement as well as change the way you are charging customers "commission". I say this with good intentions, trying to help you out.

From the Paypal user agreement:
4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.


The deal is that if you were to charge the same commission if a person were paying cash that would be OK. But charging commission because you are using PayPal is strictly prohibited.


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

PeterQ said:


> Yes, the Paypal invoice we sent to buyer already includes Paypal fee.


And that's the problem, the User Agreement says that you're not allowed to do that. The PayPal transfer/commission fee cannot be invoiced back to the customer (as per the user agreement).

I think we've derailed this thread enough...


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

so companies raise thier prices and everyone pays the paypal transaction fee. regardless wether they pay by credit card or some other method. 
ooh. my post count just went up by one. yeh!


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Not such a small thing.....Technically Paypal can require them to refund all the Transaction Fees. Taking Credit Cards is not as easy as you think.....anyone that has their own business will understand this.

These Chinese companies that sell their products are skirting the Customs Declaration. They want to advertise a low price and do not want to add any expenses to their prices. They also UNDERDECLARE the value to keep the cost low. This sounds all honky dory until you research the US Customs Website and find out that the receiver is the one that will get fined....EVEN IF THEY HAVE NO IDEA...So in effect they are putting you at risk for getting the shipment confiscated and you paying a fine that will in effect cost you double what you are suppose to pay for the products.

Yea. some people are going to say that they have ordered several times and never gotten caught, but it will only take one time and the Statute of Limitations is five years.

Light -Bicycle changed their fees, they also charge back the 3.5%. They used to charge 7%....so they were making money on the transaction as well....


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

YaMon said:


> Not such a small thing.....Technically Paypal can require them to refund all the Transaction Fees. Taking Credit Cards is not as easy as you think.....anyone that has their own business will understand this.
> 
> These Chinese companies that sell their products are skirting the Customs Declaration. They want to advertise a low price and do not want to add any expenses to their prices. They also UNDERDECLARE the value to keep the cost low. This sounds all honky dory until you research the US Customs Website and find out that the receiver is the one that will get fined....EVEN IF THEY HAVE NO IDEA...So in effect they are putting you at risk for getting the shipment confiscated and you paying a fine that will in effect cost you double what you are suppose to pay for the products.
> 
> ...


Dont you get sick of typing the same crap in every Chinese manufacturer post over and over again?

We get it, you tried to import these products for your own gain and it didnt work out, now you take every opportunity to post in every thread to scare people off. One or two posts I can see, but you have dozens where you regurgitate the same stuff. Get over it already.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

*Can I interrupt this BS for a second and ask a relevant question ?*

Is anybody using a continental mountain king 2 protection on these rims ? The burping ground control is pissing me off greatly. Need to try another tire asap and the mk2 is one of the few that appeals to me. I just need to know if it is tight.


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## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

92gli said:


> *Can I interrupt this BS for a second and ask a relevant question ?*
> 
> Is anybody using a continental mountain king 2 protection on these rims ? The burping ground control is pissing me off greatly. Need to try another tire asap and the mk2 is one of the few that appeals to me. I just need to know if it is tight.


I ran the Race Kings, I did have a couple little issues that have ruled out Contis for me. Could not get the front tire to seal with Stan's.. Have a friend that could not get the rear tire to on different rims, so, it's more a tire issue. Also, I don't know what the issue was, sidewall too stiff or whatever, but when cornering hard, the tire felt like it rolled all the way to the sidewall.. just never felt right.

All that being said, I never burped a tire on these rims, and I did run low low pressure, 15psi, due to the front not sealing well.

If you haven't tried them yet, try these.. Forté Pisgah 29x2.2 Folding Mountain Tire - Bicycle Tires

They work really well.


----------



## YamaDan (Mar 24, 2011)

PS, I did run the MK2's on my 26er, and I came down bad off a jump, and burped the crap out of it, when I put air back in it, I found the inner threads tore and distorted the tire to the point of can't use it anymore. This was on the 3rd ride. Crappy for a $60 tire..


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

Ufdah said:


> And that's the problem, the User Agreement says that you're not allowed to do that. The PayPal transfer/commission fee cannot be invoiced back to the customer (as per the user agreement).
> 
> I think we've derailed this thread enough...


.

One more derail surely can't hurt! 

Don't forget competition and consumer law in various countries. In the PayPal user agreement there is a paragraph that says all the above as long as it is in keeping with local laws. Charging a commission to use a service, then forbidding discounting or charging back of that commission for a service that has market power is considered unconscionable in lots of jurisdictions.

The assumption that the user agreement always holds force is incorrect


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

SandSpur said:


> Dont you get sick of typing the same crap in every Chinese manufacturer post over and over again?
> 
> We get it, you tried to import these products for your own gain and it didnt work out, now you take every opportunity to post in every thread to scare people off. One or two posts I can see, but you have dozens where you regurgitate the same stuff. Get over it already.


You obviously "don't get it". You think my negative remarks are aimed at LB and they are not, they are aimed at ALL of the Chinese manufacturers that insist on not playing by the rules and your ability to sell out the system because you are buying at a cheaper price.

Here is what I am talking about:

1. Chinese companies have no Research and Development, hell they don't even ride. They take designs from other sources ( some are big like Specialized, but some a very small like Derby and NOX) and copy them.

2. Next they send tons of SPAM and don't even pay for the advertising. I have seen so much crap from Peter Q and Nextie, what about the guys like NOX and Derby that pay MTBR to advertise ??

3. They do not follow Paypal User Agreement. So they advertise a lower price and then charge back the Paypal fee. Price looks lower than it really is. They also risk your shipment by intentionally lowering the price so that it escapes detection from Customs. Companies like Derby and NOX MUST pay the duties and therefore their prices will be higher.

It is because people like you that this country is so Fu--ed. You are happy when you get your stuff and don't give a damn about right and wrong...

Well I can tell you this, I will always take the opportunity to right a wrong when the opportunity rises. Cheers to guys like Derby and NOX......it is called having a Social Conscience.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

YaMon said:


> You obviously "don't get it". You think my negative remarks are aimed at LB and they are not, they are aimed at ALL of the Chinese manufacturers that insist on not playing by the rules and your ability to sell out the system because you are buying at a cheaper price.
> 
> Here is what I am talking about:
> 
> blah blah blah.


I know what youre talking about, I know you arent directing it at LB, ive seen it DOZENS of times in every single thread that mentions Chinese direct bicycle products.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Its no different than the Crusades that some carry out against manufacturers, as long as it doesn't turn into monkeys slinging poo.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

SandSpur said:


> I know what youre talking about, I know you arent directing it at LB, ive seen it DOZENS of times in every single thread that mentions Chinese direct bicycle products.


Well...it is all up to Paypal now.....
I would LMAO if they were ordered to refund all of the fees or they cannot use Paypal for their transaction.......


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

YaMon said:


> You obviously "don't get it". You think my negative remarks are aimed at LB and they are not, they are aimed at ALL of the Chinese manufacturers that insist on not playing by the rules and your ability to sell out the system because you are buying at a cheaper price.
> 
> Here is what I am talking about:
> 
> ...


Mr. Social Conscience .... can you please direct me towards the US made device you are typing this info on .... 
I am confident you would never use any type of electronic equipment manufactured in Asia ... as it is well documented how badly those employees are treated and compensated compared to US based employees.....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Ottoreni said:


> Mr. Social Conscience .... can you please direct me towards the US made device you are typing this info on ....
> I am confident you would never use any type of electronic equipment manufactured in Asia ... as it is well documented how badly those employees are treated and compensated compared to US based employees.....


Once again.....I understand that it is less expensive to manufacture in China due to their labor rates....I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT...

If it is not China, it will be Vietnam, or Africa or some other underdeveloped country. They will always be in a position to be cheaper to manufacturer than a developed country. That is how it is and I accept that.

What I do have a problem with is the stealing and how they will cheat the system by falsifying invoices....Big difference....

Basically stuff like this:

Terex Warns About Counterfeit Cranes | Story ID: 21493 | Construction Equipment Guide


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

YaMon said:


> Once again.....I understand that it is less expensive to manufacture in China due to their labor rates....I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT...
> 
> If it is not China, it will be Vietnam, or Africa or some other underdeveloped country. They will always be in a position to be cheaper to manufacturer than a developed country. That is how it is and I accept that.
> 
> What I do have a problem with is the stealing and how they will cheat the system by falsifying invoices....Big difference....


Maybe nobody can "see" what is going on....

China does a "180" on air pollution policy to combat its deadly smog | Public Radio International


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Ufdah said:


> Just got my 35mm carbon clincher RM935C AM wheels from iPlay! (The ones with the TI wire in the lip) Everything about them looks solid. Weight with 15mm thru and 142x12 came to 765g & 830g (1595g total). I'm also impressed that the rear hub is 48poe (points of engagement). I put a layer of gorilla tape in them and then a tube which I'll let sit overnight to press down the tape well before going tubeless. They were also very true, no detectable wobble at all. So far I'm very pleased but won't be able to ride them for at least another week...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey how are the wheels holding up? have you gone riding on them yet? I'm interested to know as I may be ordering a set from Peter. Thanks


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

I crashed hard last week. Came off a wet bridge and slammed the front end into the side of an embankment. Two grapefruit size bruises on both quads from where I impacted the top tube/steerer/stem/handle bar. It was night, cold, raining and I rode out with just a minor tweak of the stem to straighten it out. 

The next morning the front tire is flat so I am thinking something bad might have happened. Will inspect closely tomorrow and report back.


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

pucked up said:


> Hey how are the wheels holding up? have you gone riding on them yet? I'm interested to know as I may be ordering a set from Peter. Thanks


I just got my bike built up today and went for a quick 6 mile ride as the sun went down. Not enough time to give a full report but they did go around and around without any problems! In fact I accidentally got off the side of the trail into some sand and the front tire crossed up and caused me to go over the bars. I've had the same thing potato chip a wheel before but this time I just picked myself up, dusted off, wiped the blood off my knee and kept going with a perfectly true wheel. So far I'm content.

I like the wider tire profile the 35mm wheels give, the tires seem much less floppy... I haven't taken the tubes out yet but at 18psi w/ tubes it never felt like I was even coming close to striking the rim. I actually just went by feel when I aired them up and thought I had like 28psi when it was really 18.

Here's the new steed with the 35mm iPlay rims. (I need to lower my bars and adjust the cockpit but it was good enough to get in a quickie while the sun set.)


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Seems like a good buy, thanks for the follow up report.


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm also curious as to why PeterQ is allowed to openly shill his products and services over and over again here on MTBR? Everyone else has to pay to offer something for sale.


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

OMG.. We certainly get your point YaMon.. and we do not care.. you aren't telling anyone anything that isn't common knowledge.. work conditions?? terrible... wages.. super low..

Ya.. it's the name of the game.. I want medium to medium high quality carbon rims at a reasonable price.

We don't care about anything else.. 

So please let it lay.. it's terrible to try to learn something with you spewing your views.. 

LB = Crap -YaMon

See what I did there.. I made it known.. now shut the hell up.

Now lets see some pics of those 29er AM rims!


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

ghettocop said:


> I'm also curious as to why PeterQ is allowed to openly shill his products and services over and over again here on MTBR? Everyone else has to pay to offer something for sale.


I've noticed this Forum is a little bit more relaxed than other Forums I've been on. 
Like Reptile and Reef Aquarium Forums on these they close the thread as soon as they see it for reason like advertising or even being rude or if an argument starts and gets out of hand.
Myself I'm glad this thread is here after I was quoted $600 each for Roval Carbon rims I almost gave up on getting Carbon rims.
It would be worth it for Peter to pay a fee thou seems to get a lot of business on here.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

400 miles with a 24hr solo and 12hr solo victory in each on my cheap ass medium grade AM light-bicycle rims. They are still going strong but I'll admit I still look down at my rear tire from time to time to see if it burped air because the feedback with these stiff rims is just so harsh. It's not a bad thing, it's just something I'm going to have to get used to over time. 

On a semi related note I'm also loving my I9 torch classic hubs I used in my wheelset, they look and roll amazingly. I can go anywhere without someone asking where I got my orange Cx-Ray spokes and they dig my setup.


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## jbet (Nov 13, 2013)

Hi, is there anyone use tubular mtb rims???


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

YamaDan said:


> If you haven't tried them yet, try these.. Forté Pisgah 29x2.2 Folding Mountain Tire - Bicycle Tires
> 
> They work really well.


I went and looked at them. I like the tread and the weight. But the 2.2 isn't fat enough for me. Wish they were 2.3 like the 26". Sidewalls seem thin, but for $30 I'd take my chances. I agree that if you're not real focused on volume, they appear to be a sick deal.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> Mat please provide a follow-up report on the road wheels.........I have my eye on them


Just received the road wheelset yesterday. As per my desire, light wheelset! 1035g for the 2.0 24mm tubular rims on Bitex hubs. The brake track doesn't look good but it's only visual since basalt surface seems difficult to make it nice. The tension of the front wheel is absolutely equal, never see a wheel like that. My LBS owner was very impress with building quality. Rims only weight 280g. I will not ride this wheelset now so ride impression will be in the next season.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

Last week, hub swap from dt240 to chris king heavy duty (stainless body) on my repaired rim. The dt will be for my girlfriend's 650b set, for her birthday! And the king is for my SS rig!


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

jbet said:


> Hi, is there anyone use tubular mtb rims???


I'm curious about this as well as I'm eyeing them for my tbd/new cx rig next season.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

mat g said:


> Just received the road wheelset yesterday. As per my desire, light wheelset! 1035g for the 2.0 24mm tubular rims on Bitex hubs. The brake track doesn't look good but it's only visual since basalt surface seems difficult to make it nice. The tension of the front wheel is absolutely equal, never see a wheel like that. My LBS owner was very impress with building quality. Rims only weight 280g. I will not ride this wheelset now so ride impression will be in the next season.


I know it's not 29er but post a couple pics of what you don't like about the brake track. After building my set of light bike rims for the Mtb I now have some roadie friends asking if I can do the same for them for road.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

RojoRacing53 said:


> I know it's not 29er but post a couple pics of what you don't like about the brake track. After building my set of light bike rims for the Mtb I now have some roadie friends asking if I can do the same for them for road.


This the first pair 2 month ago:








This is the last order, (12k rims and 3k wheelset)








By the way, it's purely cosmetic but a normal buyer is not attracted by this finish and will not chose these hoops in a local shop...


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## oisin (Nov 21, 2006)

I see that light-bicycle are now doing bead hook-less 29er rims: bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle

I've had a set of their standard wide rims since last May which I've been riding all year including a lot of xc racing (on a Giant XTC Composite 29er) and they've performed brilliantly. I'm looking to get two more sets now in 650B size (one beefier AM set, and one light XC racing set). I saw this new version now and I think I might wait until the 650B versions are available which is in about a month.

Does anyone have any experience with hook-less rims like these? I know Specialized produce some. Any downsides? I like the idea of a stronger rim and of course the small weight saving.


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## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

I would imagine the hookless design would make the tire harder to seat on the rim, especially trailside. I don't own a set though so I don't talk from experience, I think I'll wait for the 650b version too.


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## oisin (Nov 21, 2006)

oisin said:


> I see that light-bicycle are now doing bead hook-less 29er rims: bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle
> 
> I've had a set of their standard wide rims since last May which I've been riding all year including a lot of xc racing (on a Giant XTC Composite 29er) and they've performed brilliantly. I'm looking to get two more sets now in 650B size (one beefier AM set, and one light XC racing set). I saw this new version now and I think I might wait until the 650B versions are available which is in about a month.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with hook-less rims like these? I know Specialized produce some. Any downsides? I like the idea of a stronger rim and of course the small weight saving.


Sorry I just found the thread about these here: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/demand-chinese-carbon-no-bead-hook-rims-857874.html


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

jbet said:


> Hi, is there anyone use tubular mtb rims???


I was looking into this, but seems to be to much trouble for what it's worth. You'll need tubular tires which is slim pickings. Also not sure about gluing your tires to the rim. A flat would be hard to fix out on the trail, unless you like to ride with a spare wheel on your back. Some may find this better than having a Camelbak.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*LB Rims with Hope Hubs*

My buddy just got these on Friday. These are their wide rims with hooks. The tires really snapped into place using just tape


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> My buddy just got these on Friday. These are their wide rims with hooks. The tires really snapped into place using just tape


1470g with the wide rims - Nice! AM or XC? Which hubs & what type axles? Inquiring minds (or mind) want to know...


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

journey said:


> 1470g with the wide rims - Nice! AM or XC? Which hubs & what type axles? Inquiring minds (or mind) want to know...


AM rims with Hope hubs. 9mm front and 10mm rear.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

*Re: Tubular Rims*

I bought 2x DT Swiss XRC 950T rims off ebay, laced them up to DT 240s.

Been riding them at 16/18 psi, front and rear. Tires are Tufo XC4s. Like riding a soft tail, but more efficient.

Bike will be converted to 1x11 in about a week.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

RojoRacing53 said:


> So here's what I ended up with of my single speed build.
> Wider light bike rims with matte 3k finish and orange decals.
> Industry Nine Torch hubs in orange with single speed rear
> Sapim Cx-Ray spokes Black & Orange


RojoRacing53 - Considering a very similar build. I just ordered the wide rims (30mm but the AM weight) and was talking with my LBS about building the wheels with I-9 hubs. Out of curiosity, did you measure the weight of the wheels before you mounted the tires? Actually, I just noticed that you had a SS rear, so it would not be an apples-to-apples comparison.

Did you consider any other spokes? The LBS has recommended DT Super Comp for more durability -- still trying to decide on it. I have a few weeks before the rims will be here...

I saw that you got orange decals -- when I ordered the LB rims, Nancy told me that the only colors they had were red, blue, green, white. As my bike has yellow highlights, I was looking for yellow / gold decals -- for now, I will be going with UD / matt.


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## jeffgre_6163 (Jan 23, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> Been riding them at 16/18 psi, front and rear. Tires are Tufo XC4s. Like riding a soft tail, but more efficient.
> View attachment 847940


WOW - just imagine what riding a "Soft tail" would be like with these wheels on!
It would be like a super hero "soft tail" - John Wayne, Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee and Clark Kent distilled and rolled in to a mountain bike.
Awesome!


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## RockyGuy (Aug 12, 2004)

I have a set of the LB rims ... standard width. I ride XC and think they'll work great. I also have Hope Hubs ordered (15mm front, standard QR rear). I'm excited because the rear is one of the new 2014 hubs with 40 POE. Can't wait to get it later this week. Spokes are also on their way (Sapim CX-Ray). So far, so good.

My question is which nipples do I want? Internal or standard? My understanding is standard, but it would be great to confirm that. What about length? 12mm or 14mm? And then material. Brass or alloy? My inclination is to get 14mm brass nipples for the strongest build since the weight penalty is only about 23 grams per wheel. As a bonus they won't corrode. Am I crazy with thAny thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

B


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> I crashed hard last week. Came off a wet bridge and slammed the front end into the side of an embankment. Two grapefruit size bruises on both quads from where I impacted the top tube/steerer/stem/handle bar. It was night, cold, raining and I rode out with just a minor tweak of the stem to straighten it out.
> 
> The next morning the front tire is flat so I am thinking something bad might have happened. Will inspect closely tomorrow and report back.


Rode tonight and there is nothing wrong with the wheel. I must have burped the tire and lost the seal as I needed more Stan's. I still have huge yellow bruises on quads (used to be black and blue).


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

jvossman said:


> anybody receive any nancy wheels this week? How long was the delay since you ordered them. Just wondering...


So, I paid Oct 30th, and picked the wheels up at my post office this morning. 21 days, not bad!

Looked at them briefly this morning, seem good. Ablue nipples  Am I correct in assuming that I should put a drop of lube on the nipples to avoid potential problems if some day I want to relace the wheels with different hub? Speaking of hubs I ntice that when I grab the freewheel and spin the wheel it seems very "ratchety" and the wheel quickly comes to a stop asopposed to freewheeling with the same force. Not what I am used to in a lifetime of shimano hubs. Is that something to be worried about? Thanks to everybody who helped me come to this decision, ride report in the next couple of weeks. Thanks!

THanks to Bruce Brown I will go get the Symetrical rhythm strips.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I am still very happy with my wheelset I built using the AM LB rims. I set them up w/ gorilla tape and am using 2.2 Ikons. I can't believe how much more aggressive I can ride on these wheels. I weigh about 172lbs. w/o gear and am running 23psi rear, 21 psi front. I just threw them on the trueing stand before the ride today because I heard a few good rock strikes on my last ride. Still true and nothing but some scratching on the rims. Love these rims/wheels.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

BruceBrown said:


> Maybe nobody can "see" what is going on....
> 
> China does a "180" on air pollution policy to combat its deadly smog | Public Radio International


Yep 40 years ago the Air in Missoula MT looked like that.


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

jvossman said:


> So, I paid Oct 30th, and picked the wheels up at my post office this morning. 21 days, not bad!


What finish did you get? I ordered mine on Nov 6, 12k matte. Said it was a 13 day lead time. That means they should ship out Friday!?! I'm impatient because I am waiting to install a new fork on my Rip 9 and need the 15mm TA front wheel.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

All - Can anyone tell me what the import duty will be for a set of rims if the full value is declared? Feel free to msg me if you prefer. I would like to know what the total cost would be... Thx.


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

journey said:


> All - Can anyone tell me what the import duty will be for a set of rims if the full value is declared? Feel free to msg me if you prefer. I would like to know what the total cost would be... Thx.


Ditto.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

jkidd_39 said:


> Ditto.


I believe the duty rate is about 5% and the documentation is about $25. Should run you $35 total....


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## 5678 (Nov 21, 2013)

First MTBR post! 

Does anyone have pictures of matte and gloss 12k finishes? The stock LB pictures don't give a good impression of the finished look.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Mr. Doom said:


> Yep 40 years ago the Air in Missoula MT looked like that.


Right - logging industry, pulp mills, etc... and the valley Missoula is stuck in. We had some of that in spots in the Black Hills as well, but certainly not as bad as Missoula had it. Lots of wind in the Black Hills have always helped blow out the smoke from the mills.

I would be curious of the differences in toxicity of the smog between the pulp mills of Missoula way back when and the current smog in China from the manufacturing (we know it is not logging and pulp mills creating it in China).


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

5678 said:


> First MTBR post!
> 
> Does anyone have pictures of matte and gloss 12k finishes? The stock LB pictures don't give a good impression of the finished look.


Post #4038 has a photo of matte 12k finish:
(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims? - Page 162


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## razardica (Sep 16, 2010)

How deep are those RM935Cs? Do they have a comparable rim height to an ENVE XC? 30MM?


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

razardica said:


> How deep are those RM935Cs? Do they have a comparable rim height to an ENVE XC? 30MM?


It is 23.5mm deepth.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

It looks like they have "spoke 1" marked. Are they bidirectionally drilled?


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

Hey guys,
Can the cheapest entry level LB wheelset (Novatec 711 hubs) take a XD Driver for SRAM X01/XX1 1x11 ? Or do i have to spend twice the coin to get a compatible 1x11 wheelset which uses hope hubs etc? (Also offered by LB)
Basically I want to put x01/xx1 on a carbon 29er HT. 
thankyou


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## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

krisvm said:


> Hey guys,
> Can the cheapest entry level LB wheelset (Novatec 711 hubs) take a XD Driver for SRAM X01/XX1 1x11 ? Or do i have to spend twice the coin to get a compatible 1x11 wheelset which uses hope hubs etc? (Also offered by LB)
> Basically I want to put x01/xx1 on a carbon 29er HT.
> thankyou


From what I know, Novatec only makes two hubs that are xx1 compatible, the d712SB and the D882SB.

For some reason the Chinese wheel manufacturers don't seem to understand. When I request either one, they say the only one they have that's XX1 compatible is the Hopes.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

krisvm said:


> Hey guys,
> Can the cheapest entry level LB wheelset (Novatec 711 hubs) take a XD Driver for SRAM X01/XX1 1x11 ? Or do i have to spend twice the coin to get a compatible 1x11 wheelset which uses hope hubs etc? (Also offered by LB)
> Basically I want to put x01/xx1 on a carbon 29er HT.
> thankyou


Peter from xmiplay had some pictures of XX1 Novatec hubs (D721 I think) but was removed when he was banned. I'm thinking of ordering a wheel set from him. You may want to PM/email him for some pictures, unless he re-post them here again.


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

Thankyou,
I take it LB and xmiplay are similar quality? I'll drop him another message.
Is there a significant difference between hub plus xd driver vs hub without converter?
Any recommendations for wheels from xmiplay for my bang for buck carbon HT build?
Cheers


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## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

pucked up said:


> Peter from xmiplay had some pictures of XX1 Novatec hubs (D721 I think) but was removed when he was banned. I'm thinking of ordering a wheel set from him. You may want to PM/email him for some pictures, unless he re-post them here again.


That's one of the one's I inquired with. DOn't know what's going on, but I didn't want to pay $250 more for Hope.


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

Yeah the 550ish price tag looks good. But not 1000 ! For me, its a big difference to pay for 1x11 compatibility.
550 wheels + ~ 80 hub converter is ok though!


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

I think the XX1 wheel set he posted was ready to accept the 1x11 cassette. So no converter needed. Maybe Peter should confirm this cause if that's the case, I'll order a set for sure.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

which of these wheels should I order for my cx build? don't want tubulars. going with disc brakes.

plan to order just rim and have lbs lace up.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

krisvm said:


> Hey guys,
> Can the cheapest entry level LB wheelset (Novatec 711 hubs) take a XD Driver for SRAM X01/XX1 1x11 ? Or do i have to spend twice the coin to get a compatible 1x11 wheelset which uses hope hubs etc? (Also offered by LB)
> Basically I want to put x01/xx1 on a carbon 29er HT.
> thankyou


God forbid you use the option of ordering rims only, and then have your shop build them up with whatever hubs you want/need/can budget to run the expensive SRAM 1 x 11 stuff.:eekster:

That would be my suggestion to get what you want within your budget.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Zachua said:


> which of these wheels should I order for my cx build? don't want tubulars. going with disc brakes.
> 
> plan to order just rim and have lbs lace up.


I run the XC 29" narrower rims on my CX, wheelset came in around 1540g IIRC built with Hope hubs and Revos.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

ozzybmx said:


> I run the XC 29" narrower rims on my CX, wheelset came in around 1540g IIRC built with Hope hubs and Revos.


They are "old process," right? No problems thus far? How many spokes did you go with?

that bike looks sick!!

Thanks!!


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Not sure if they changed the process on these but apart from they "missed a process".... didn't smooth off the rim bead, the wheels are 100%. I will add they they have just sent me a set of new rims for my trouble.

The bike takes MTB spaced hubs and i went with 32h.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

pucked up said:


> I think the XX1 wheel set he posted was ready to accept the 1x11 cassette. So no converter needed. Maybe Peter should confirm this cause if that's the case, I'll order a set for sure.


Here are some pictures for NSS-1 IP-M923C wheels for Shimano/SRAM QR, and you can convert them for SRAM XX1 with a SRAM XX1 cassette:


































Another picture you can see the difference:









And here are some pictures for NSS-2 IP-M930C wheels for thru axles and SRAM XX1 compatible, with fitting axles:














































NSS-1: Novatec D711/D712 hubs for QR, Sapim CX-Delta Spokes, Sapim Self-Securing nipples
NSS-2: Novatec D881/D882 hubs 4 in 1, Sapim CX-Delta Spokes, Sapim Self-Securing nipples

The D712 hubs and D882 hubs can both be converted for SRAM XX1 with the cassette, and you can convert them for Shimano whenever you want, so you just need* an extra cassette for SRAM XX1*.

Rims width option: 24mm IP-RM923C, 30mm width IP-RM930C, 35mm width IP-RM935C

Email: pete[email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

jlian said:


> Post #4038 has a photo of matte 12k finish:
> (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims? - Page 162


They have a Flickr page too... Flickr: www.light-bicycle.com's Photostream


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

Thanks guys,
I've chatted with Peter and looks like the xx1 compatible wheelset is fine (does not cost twice as much), as can be seen in the photos above.
Bruce, I'm not sure if your response was to my quote or perhaps to Zachua?
I am looking at getting the above wheels with the IP-256 frame or perhaps 057.
Cheers,


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

krisvm said:


> Thanks guys,
> I've chatted with Peter and looks like the xx1 compatible wheelset is fine (does not cost twice as much), as can be seen in the photos above.
> Bruce, I'm not sure if your response was to my quote or perhaps to Zachua?
> I am looking at getting the above wheels with the IP-256 frame or perhaps 057.
> Cheers,


I was suggesting that I hope you have done your homework and really compared the quality, cost, and any customer service/warranty issues of pre-built wheels from LB to what you could build yourself or have built by your LBS that meets your budget. Needless to say, my preference would be to buy the rims and have them laced with exactly the spokes, nipples, and hubs that best meet my riding needs by a quality wheel builder that I know and trust.


----------



## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> quality wheel builder that I know and trust.


That's the issue, not too many of them now a days. From what I've read here from the ones that have bought wheel sets, the make and quality is very good.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

These light bike wheels were the first I ever built and when I brought them to my local wheel builder expert to give his opinion on the end result. He told me me they were perfect and he couldn't have done it better himself. It's not that hard if you watch a dt Swiss video a few times and have a little mechanical common sense, but you do need to invest in the right tools for the job so that first wheelset will be a bit more expensive.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

I had two sets of LB rims laced to my choice of hubs by two different wheel builders. Both turned out great and are running strong. My buddy just received a set of wheels from LB with Hope hubs and they also look great and the spoke tension seems even. Time will tell but so far with only a few rides they seem great.

To be honest I think the whole wheel building "magic" is over blown. The right tools and directions it seems easy.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

LB rims are the easiest rims I have ever built up since they don't deflect much and are very true to start out. Use this as an opportunity to learn to build wheels. Just remember, if you make a mistake, you can take everything apart and start over. Besides the above mentioned DT videos, there are Youtube videos and Sheldon Browns website has a very good step by step guide that I used on my first build a long time ago. There is a lot of satisfaction in building your own wheels and also, if you get a branch in your wheel and break a nipple or something, you can fix it yourself instead of having to take it to a bike shop and waiting for them to fix it and then going back to pick it up. Also, by building your own, you will generally end up with a few extra spokes and nipples if there is a problem unless you buy by the spoke. Generally it is cheapest to buy in lots of 18 or 36.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

You guys just gave me an idea...
I have stock 32h Bontrager Mustang heavy-ass wheels on my bike, is it possible to just get a couple of LB 32h rims and un-lace (de-lace?) my stock rims and then reuse everything to lace up the lb's?
I ask because I like the hubs and don't know how to which check spoke lengths are needed so I thought of maybe swapping rims.
Good idea? Yes? No? Stay off the crack-pipe?


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## Josh_SL2 (Mar 30, 2012)

upstateSC-rider said:


> You guys just gave me an idea...
> I have stock 32h Bontrager Mustang heavy-ass wheels on my bike, is it possible to just get a couple of LB 32h rims and un-lace (de-lace?) my stock rims and then reuse everything to lace up the lb's?
> I ask because I like the hubs and don't know how to which check spoke lengths are needed so I thought of maybe swapping rims.
> Good idea? Yes? No? Stay off the crack-pipe?


If the ERD of the new rims doesn't match the old ones, you'll need new spokes (different length).


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

As Josh SL2 said, if the ERD of the new rim is not within 2 mm of the old rim, then it generally will not work. Also, if the rims are close on ERD, do not reuse the nipples. Reusing spokes is fine, but always use new nipples when rebuilding a wheel.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Josh_SL2 said:


> If the ERD of the new rims doesn't match the old ones, you'll need new spokes (different length).





yourdaguy said:


> As Josh SL2 said, if the ERD of the new rim is not within 2 mm of the old rim, then it generally will not work. Also, if the rims are close on ERD, do not reuse the nipples. Reusing spokes is fine, but always use new nipples when rebuilding a wheel.


Thanks guys.
Guess I'd have to take apart the stock wheel to measure ERD? Don't know if I'm up to that yet.


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## Josh_SL2 (Mar 30, 2012)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Thanks guys.
> Guess I'd have to take apart the stock wheel to measure ERD? Don't know if I'm up to that yet.


If you know the exact model of the rim you can probably find the ERD on the mfgr website or maybe even on this forum.


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## Josh_SL2 (Mar 30, 2012)

Did these come on the '13 Trek in your sig? If they're relatively new models they shouldn't be too hard to dig up the info.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Josh_SL2 said:


> If you know the exact model of the rim you can probably find the ERD on the mfgr website or maybe even on this forum.





Josh_SL2 said:


> Did these come on the '13 Trek in your sig? If they're relatively new models they shouldn't be too hard to dig up the info.


Yep, those are the ones.
I'll have to do more digging but seems a lot of people would rather have hoops in hand to check the dimension than rely on printed specs.
Seems to be above my pay-grade. 
I was just hoping for a quick and easy solution to trying these LB rims.


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

Just buy a set. Spokes are cheap. Read up in the wheel building section and use a spoke calculator. Or you could try your spokes and if they're too long or short you'll know by how much and order the correct length. Either way, read the wheel building sources.

Got my tracking # Tuesday, when do you guys think they'll be delivered in So Cal?


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## chris1911 (May 26, 2009)

upstateSC-rider said:


> You guys just gave me an idea...
> I have stock 32h Bontrager Mustang heavy-ass wheels on my bike, is it possible to just get a couple of LB 32h rims and un-lace (de-lace?) my stock rims and then reuse everything to lace up the lb's?
> I ask because I like the hubs and don't know how to which check spoke lengths are needed so I thought of maybe swapping rims.
> Good idea? Yes? No? Stay off the crack-pipe?


All you will be doing is re-using the heavy ass spokes. You probably won't shave as much weight as you would like by just changing the rims.


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

chris1911 said:


> All you will be doing is re-using the heavy ass spokes. You probably won't shave as much weight as you would like by just changing the rims.


 Spokes might be heavy but many OEM hubs are on the heavy side. XTs weigh twice my BHS hubs.


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

So the last few pages have been rants on factory conditions and manufacturing, how has the durability and quality been on the latest rims ?


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

How much better is the hookless design in terms of durability against rock strikes? I'm currently debating between 27mm hookless and 30mm. Will be used mostly for XC races.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Kawigreen99 said:


> How much better is the hookless design in terms of durability against rock strikes? I'm currently debating between 27mm hookless and 30mm. Will be used mostly for XC races.


I'd be interested in this too ?

Greater width = larger tyre volume for a given tyre at same pressure or ? = larger tyre footprint = potentially more cushioning , ergo more rim protection ???? Which would create the illusion of the rim being stronger by being protected better ?

But does the hookless design provide a better / more secure tyre / rim interface = less burping ????

Hookless design = narrower so more tyre roll on a given tyre = higher pressure to compensate = more chance of burping ????

Hookless design has thicker therefore I would assume stronger rim walls = stronger than a wider rim with traditional bead hook ????

PLUS probably a thousand more questions . Anyone with experience of or advanced knowledge of tyre/rim width/pressure mechanics please feel free to chime in :thumbsup: LOL


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Kawigreen99 said:


> How much better is the hookless design in terms of durability against rock strikes? I'm currently debating between 27mm hookless and 30mm. Will be used mostly for XC races.


I went with the 27mm hookless rim that should be delivered by the end of the week. IME for XC on hard pack I don't need a tire wider that a 2.1 in the rear and 2.2 in the front. Years ago when I rode 26" wheels I would get the widest tire I could find. With the 29" wheel I can run a narrower tire.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

upstateSC-rider said:


> You guys just gave me an idea...
> I have stock 32h Bontrager Mustang heavy-ass wheels on my bike, is it possible to just get a couple of LB 32h rims and un-lace (de-lace?) my stock rims and then reuse everything to lace up the lb's?
> I ask because I like the hubs and don't know how to which check spoke lengths are needed so I thought of maybe swapping rims.
> Good idea? Yes? No? Stay off the crack-pipe?


Possibly. IIRC, the ERD for the Mustang is 603 or 604mm. (and of course assuming the spoke count is the same).

BTW, the Mustang is not a heavy rim. IIRC, they run around 460g, which is about where everybody's mid grade cross country rim runs. I loved Mustang rims for years on all my bikes. Good durable rim without being heavy or noodley, unlike older WTB rims.

The real issue is, are your hubs and spokes worth recycling into the new rims? Spokes, if they are double butted, then go for it. I would suggest using new brass nipples. If your wheelset is really that heavy, maybe it's time to upgrade the hubs as well, keep your old wheelset the way it is, sell it or keep it as a spare set.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Kawigreen99 said:


> How much better is the hookless design in terms of durability against rock strikes? I'm currently debating between 27mm hookless and 30mm. Will be used mostly for XC races.


I thought Light Bicycle is only fabricating a hookless 27mm internal width rim. They're making a 30mm now too?

I was holding out for a 30mm hookless. They're design should make them stronger and more durable than the "new process" rims. The only question is whether the rims will hold a tire and not burp.

Really wish Derby would make a 30mm rim. The 35mm width is just too wide imo.


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## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

DRILLINDK said:


> I thought Light Bicycle is only fabricating a hookless 27mm internal width rim. They're making a 30mm now too?


They make two hookless rims:
rim 1: 27mm external/22mm internal 365gr
rim 2: 35mm external/30mm internal 420gr


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

DRILLINDK said:


> Really wish Derby would make a 30mm rim. The 35mm width is just too wide imo.


Derby's are 29mm internal width...


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## edibetta (Dec 8, 2010)

Yesterday I went to my local mech, able to prepare incredible wheelset...he told me that he used a couple of LB really incredible! He sad probably with carbon rim we could use no more than 20 spokes......or less! 
Maybe he was too exagerate.....but what do you think about to use the lightest spokes....Dt revolution (XC-marathon intent of use)?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

edibetta said:


> Yesterday I went to my local mech, able to prepare incredible wheelset...he told me that he used a couple of LB really incredible! He sad probably with carbon rim we could use no more than 20 spokes......or less!
> Maybe he was too exagerate.....but what do you think about to use the lightest spokes....Dt revolution (XC-marathon intent of use)?


Revolutions work fine, but I would not recommend reducing the spoke count that far.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

meltingfeather said:


> Revolutions work fine, but I would not recommend reducing the spoke count that far.


I have been toying with the idea of going down to a 28H wheel for my next build. Currently at 32H.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

speaking of spokes...does anyone still sell those rainbow ti spokes (very 90's but I dig em)..

Since the carbon rim is so stiff, I am wondering if a ti spoke would work well for a cross country rig.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I would only go down to 28 spokes. While the carbon rims might take lower counts, the number of available disc brake hubs for numbers below 28 falls off the map. This is because, the braking forces can exceed the peddling forces and fewer than 28 spokes would put a lot of stress on the hub flanges. Even at 28 spokes there are not that many hubs.


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

yourdaguy said:


> I would only go down to 28 spokes. While the carbon rims might take lower counts, the number of available disc brake hubs for numbers below 28 falls off the map. This is because, the braking forces can exceed the peddling forces and fewer than 28 spokes would put a lot of stress on the hub flanges. Even at 28 spokes there are not that many hubs.


Hmm. Is that the only reason? I have a set of Sun Ringle Black flag pro's in 26 that Im thinking of dissembling and building up with these rims, they are 24 spoke hubs. Any thoughts on a spoke count that low? Id hate to build them up if it would be too flexy.

Thanks


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

They will be less flexy with carbon than currently. 26 is inherently stiffer than 29 I don't think flex will be an issue. If they are disc brake, I would be skeptical of long term reliability of the flanges unless the hubs have really heavy flanges. Of course heavy hubs kind of defeat the purpose of lower spoke count.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

I'm loving those 35mm hookless LB rims.
BUT
I may not be able to build them with my I9 hubs/spokes, due to their ERD.

Do someone have experience with the 35mm wide hooked rims that other traders are selling? iplay, nextie, carbon-bicycle... 
AND...
Are their mesures consistent?
I mean... doing some math... looks like the rim thickness in the hole area is 6 to 8 mm... too much i think.


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

Anyone try the bontrager rim strips in the hookless rims yet? Or do the hookless rims come manufactured with any kind of a bulge/bead lock on the rim bed to prevent the beads from sliding into the inner rim channel when there is no air pressure to hold them tight against the hookless bead? 

It seems some sort of bulge/bead lock or the bontrager rim strip would negate some of the worries about the tire slipping into the rim channel at super low or no air pressure. I really appreciate the bontrager strips in the 30mm hooked rims since they lock the beads at the rim bed like a UST system, even when there is no pressure in the tire.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

DRILLINDK said:


> I thought Light Bicycle is only fabricating a hookless 27mm internal width rim. They're making a 30mm now too?
> 
> I was holding out for a 30mm hookless. They're design should make them stronger and more durable than the "new process" rims. The only question is whether the rims will hold a tire and not burp.
> 
> Really wish Derby would make a 30mm rim. The 35mm width is just too wide imo.


I should have clarified that I was thinking about 27 hookless vs 30 with the hook.


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## edibetta (Dec 8, 2010)

yourdaguy said:


> I would only go down to 28 spokes. While the carbon rims might take lower counts, the number of available disc brake hubs for numbers below 28 falls off the map. This is because, the braking forces can exceed the peddling forces and fewer than 28 spokes would put a lot of stress on the hub flanges. Even at 28 spokes there are not that many hubs.


Indeed this was my question to the mech.... There aren't hubs available less Than 28.... But Roval probably are 28 rear and 24 front.... Probably in the next future will have stringer hubs for carbon rims.
Anyway dt revolutions spokes are very light so 32 don't increase weight too much... And doesn't stress too much hubs...... Good chance to have light and stiff wheelset.... For all round mtb rides....


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Kawigreen99 said:


> I should have clarified that I was thinking about 27 hookless vs 30 with the hook.


No worries. It would be sweet if they fabricated a 30mm external width hookless rim similar to the successful wider clincher 30mm rim

Also I believe I read somewhere in this thread or another that it's the sidewall depth of the hookless rim 24mm vs 20mm clincher rim that provide additional material strength and support. As a result, making the the hookless rims theoretically stronger. It's this sidewall that also prevents the tire from coming off perhaps?

Really would be nice for any rider that has some mileage on these hookless rims to chime in with your experience.


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

It's the kevlar or steel bead reinforcement in the tire, bead ID smaller than rim OD, that keeps them on the rim.


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

Anybody have any experience with these wheels? 
35mm Wide Carbon Mountain Bike 29" Rim Clincher Tubeless Compatible NEW-DESIGNED [NXT29C03]


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

DRILLINDK said:


> No worries. It would be sweet if they fabricated a 30mm external width hookless rim similar to the successful wider clincher 30mm rim
> 
> Also I believe I read somewhere in this thread or another that it's the sidewall depth of the hookless rim 24mm vs 20mm clincher rim that provide additional material strength and support. As a result, making the the hookless rims theoretically stronger. It's this sidewall that also prevents the tire from coming off perhaps?
> 
> Really would be nice for any rider that has some mileage on these hookless rims to chime in with your experience.


Check this thread...

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/demand-chinese-carbon-no-bead-hook-rims-857874.html


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

phil_rad said:


> Anybody have any experience with these wheels?
> 35mm Wide Carbon Mountain Bike 29" Rim Clincher Tubeless Compatible NEW-DESIGNED [NXT29C03]


I got some 27.5 rims from them. Built them up and been running them for only a couple of weeks but so far so good.
Nice and wide and light...380ish gm per rim. I think they said 400gm on their sight.


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## dhegglin (Aug 1, 2011)

So I jumped in with both feet into the 29er carbon from light-bicycle.com. I bought 2 sets of these, 2 fronts and 2 rears. The rears had the Novatec 812 hubs.

1. One front rim taco'd in an ugly way. It might be my fault as I pushed them hard over very rocky terrain, but they broke at the nipple hole.
2. Then I found 2 dents in my rear rim - I run my tires at about 35 PSI and I'm 185 lbs loaded. I gave this rim to my 15 year old son. My son rode them for about 3 month and had a catastrophic failure of the Novatec rear hub (shredded free-hub and broke the axle in half).
3. I decided at that point that I shouldn't be riding these and gave my 2nd set to my 13 year old son. The front is going strong, but he blew up the Novatec rear hub (hub internal ratchet ring came loose from the hub housing). 

Note that these rims were purchased late 2012 and I don't know if they have improved since then. Has anyone else experienced issues similar to this? I like the price, but unless they improve them considerably I'm not touching these again.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

dhegglin said:


> So I jumped in with both feet into the 29er carbon from light-bicycle.com. I bought 2 sets of these, 2 fronts and 2 rears. The rears had the Novatec 812 hubs.
> 
> 1. One front rim taco'd in an ugly way. It might be my fault as I pushed them hard over very rocky terrain, but they broke at the nipple hole.
> 2. Then I found 2 dents in my rear rim - I run my tires at about 35 PSI and I'm 185 lbs loaded. I gave this rim to my 15 year old son. My son rode them for about 3 month and had a catastrophic failure of the Novatec rear hub (shredded free-hub and broke the axle in half).
> ...


This is the first negative post I've read about these rims from what I've read (This Whole Thread) there are a lot of happy people.
My self I'm ordering the rims only to use with Chris King Hubs.
My LBS said they have done several sets of these rims for customers and they are really happy with them.
I wanted Roval or Enve but after Roval quoted me $600 per rim (rim only) I figure I will give these a try.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

PauLCa916 said:


> This is the first negative post I've read about these rims from what I've read (This Whole Thread) there are a lot of happy people.
> My self I'm ordering the rims only to use with Chris King Hubs.
> My LBS said they have done several sets of these rims for customers and they are really happy with them.
> I wanted Roval or Enve but after Roval quoted me $600 per rim (rim only) I figure I will give these a try.


Are you sure you read the whole thread? For the most part, ive seen positive reviews. But this isnt the first time I heard of the novatec hub spinning free. Also not the first time ive read of a failed rim, just most are justified by saying it _probably_ would have been a failure to an alu rim too.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

PauLCa916 said:


> This is the first negative post I've read about these rims from what I've read (This Whole Thread) there are a lot of happy people.
> My self I'm ordering the rims only to use with Chris King Hubs.
> My LBS said they have done several sets of these rims for customers and they are really happy with them.
> I wanted Roval or Enve but after Roval quoted me $600 per rim (rim only) I figure I will give these a try.


Read the thread again, while not prevalent there are more than a couple of incidents of failed rims and more so of failed Novatec hubs.


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

dhegglin said:


> So I jumped in with both feet into the 29er carbon from light-bicycle.com. I bought 2 sets of these, 2 fronts and 2 rears. The rears had the Novatec 812 hubs.
> 
> 1. One front rim taco'd in an ugly way. It might be my fault as I pushed them hard over very rocky terrain, but they broke at the nipple hole.
> 2. Then I found 2 dents in my rear rim - I run my tires at about 35 PSI and I'm 185 lbs loaded. I gave this rim to my 15 year old son. My son rode them for about 3 month and had a catastrophic failure of the Novatec rear hub (shredded free-hub and broke the axle in half).
> ...


Are you really surprised that the cheap novatec hubs aren't holding up as well as more quality offerings? You generally get what you pay for in terms of hubs, and it never hurts to do some research on the hubs prior to buying. There's a reason the wheelsets are cheap with novatec hubs.

Ideally you wouldn't lump the rims in with the hubs. Can you expand on what you mean by saying it might be your fault since you pushed them hard in rocky terrain? That could mean just about anything. I've ridden and raced mine in rocky terrain with great success.


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## dhegglin (Aug 1, 2011)

tiflow_21 said:


> Are you really surprised that the cheap novatec hubs aren't holding up as well as more quality offerings? You generally get what you pay for in terms of hubs, and it never hurts to do some research on the hubs prior to buying. There's a reason the wheelsets are cheap with novatec hubs.
> 
> Ideally you wouldn't lump the rims in with the hubs. Can you expand on what you mean by saying it might be your fault since you pushed them hard in rocky terrain? That could mean just about anything. I've ridden and raced mine in rocky terrain with great success.


I ended up crashing due to the terrain.

I've done that before at the same place with a mavic alu wheel and although I crashed, the rim was fine and had no damage. The light-bicycle wheel actually broke. About 1/4 of the circumference broke off at the nipple holes and it was ugly. Besides having to carry the bike out I was pissed because the wheel was probably 1 month old. Light-bicycle didn't replace the wheel, but they did send me a new rim although I had to pay for shipping. I guess warranty of these things is another thing I'm not so happy about


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

They give you a free carbon rim to replace one that was damaged in a crash and you complain about their warranty???


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

dhegglin said:


> I ended up crashing due to the terrain.
> 
> I've done that before at the same place with a mavic alu wheel and although I crashed, the rim was fine and had no damage. The light-bicycle wheel actually broke. About 1/4 of the circumference broke off at the nipple holes and it was ugly. Besides having to carry the bike out I was pissed because the wheel was probably 1 month old. Light-bicycle didn't replace the wheel, but they did send me a new rim although I had to pay for shipping. I guess warranty of these things is another thing I'm not so happy about


Appreciate the info. All crashes are not the same. I've taco'd many aluminum wheels with no warranty... and didn't expect a warranty. Crashes happen, as do component breakages. Doesn't make it any easier to deal with, but it's a fact of actually using components.

Enve or roval most likely would NOT have given you a free rim. You would've been paying crash replacement prices.


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## dhegglin (Aug 1, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> They give you a free carbon rim to replace one that was damaged in a crash and you complain about their warranty???


I would say I crashed *because* of the broken rim, not the other way around. Hard to keep riding when the front rim collapses. Yes, I do expect warranty when the rim blows up. I had the AM version not the clincher. I didn't read anywhere that you can't ride over baby-heads.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

AZ said:


> Read the thread again, while not prevalent there are more than a couple of incidents of failed rims and more so of failed Novatec hubs.





SandSpur said:


> Are you sure you read the whole thread? For the most part, ive seen positive reviews. But this isnt the first time I heard of the novatec hub spinning free. Also not the first time ive read of a failed rim, just most are justified by saying it _probably_ would have been a failure to an alu rim too.


Alright I will re read it again soon as I get the chance.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

dhegglin said:


> I would say I crashed *because* of the broken rim, not the other way around. Hard to keep riding when the front rim collapses. Yes, I do expect warranty when the rim blows up. I had the AM version not the clincher. I didn't read anywhere that you can't ride over baby-heads.


Pics or it didn't happen.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

dhegglin said:


> I would say I crashed *because* of the broken rim, not the other way around. Hard to keep riding when the front rim collapses. Yes, I do expect warranty when the rim blows up. I had the AM version not the clincher. I didn't read anywhere that you can't ride over baby-heads.


What does "I had the AM version not the clincher". mean???


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

dhegglin said:


> So I jumped in with both feet into the 29er carbon from light-bicycle.com. I bought 2 sets of these, 2 fronts and 2 rears. The rears had the Novatec 812 hubs.
> 
> 1. One front rim taco'd in an ugly way. It might be my fault as I pushed them hard over very rocky terrain, but they broke at the nipple hole.
> 2. Then I found 2 dents in my rear rim - I run my tires at about 35 PSI and I'm 185 lbs loaded. I gave this rim to my 15 year old son. My son rode them for about 3 month and had a catastrophic failure of the Novatec rear hub (shredded free-hub and broke the axle in half).
> ...





dhegglin said:


> I ended up crashing due to the terrain.
> 
> I've done that before at the same place with a mavic alu wheel and although I crashed, the rim was fine and had no damage. The light-bicycle wheel actually broke. About 1/4 of the circumference broke off at the nipple holes and it was ugly. Besides having to carry the bike out I was pissed because the wheel was probably 1 month old. Light-bicycle didn't replace the wheel, but they did send me a new rim although I had to pay for shipping. I guess warranty of these things is another thing I'm not so happy about





dhegglin said:


> I would say I crashed *because* of the broken rim, not the other way around. Hard to keep riding when the front rim collapses. Yes, I do expect warranty when the rim blows up. I had the AM version not the clincher. I didn't read anywhere that you can't ride over baby-heads.


The first two descriptions of the crash are very different than the third...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## dhegglin (Aug 1, 2011)

Adroit Rider said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.


There's one of my hubs


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## dhegglin (Aug 1, 2011)

Adroit Rider said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.


Here's my wheel.


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## dhegglin (Aug 1, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> What does "I had the AM version not the clincher". mean???


lb has 2 types. The narrower XC clincher version and the wider AM version. I had the wider version as I wanted it to be solid.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

dhegglin said:


> lb has 2 types. The narrower XC clincher version and the wider AM version. I had the wider version as I wanted it to be solid.


so the AM version you had was the hookless type?


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## edibetta (Dec 8, 2010)

it seems not a hookless version. 
I think the problem was the hub....it was broken first then probably also the rim.....what do you think?


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## dhegglin (Aug 1, 2011)

edibetta said:


> it seems not a hookless version.
> I think the problem was the hub....it was broken first then probably also the rim.....what do you think?


2 separate wheels. The broken wheel is the front. The broken hub is the rear. This happened at separate times so they are not related.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Arm chair opinion: 
You received a bad rim, like others, that showed weakness and cracking at the drilled spoke hole. High tension (did you ever measure?) and hard riding exposed the poorly constructed rim and blew up.

You are lucky to walk away from that rim failure with little to no injury.

Reading back in the posts, I remember a well respected wheel builder rejecting 30-40% of the rims he received due to this exact problem. I wonder if your rims were from the same batch?

Edit: Regarding the hub, I don't think anyone with a lot of green chicklets has ever recommended buying the complete wheel set. Part of the build is to thoroughly inspect the rim to ensure it will perform, then build, and stress relieve the spokes, etc. I have a feeling the builders in China don't have much incentive to prevent rims from shipping out that are borderline and you only catch this during the build process.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

dhegglin said:


> View attachment 853484
> 
> 
> Here's my wheel.


Yikes! What kind of bike(s) were these on?


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## dhegglin (Aug 1, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> Yikes! What kind of bike(s) were these on?


2011 Tallboy C


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Mine have been absolutely bulletproof and solid. I'm about 200Lbs geared up and ride very rocky terrain as fast I can go. They feel much more solid than any other wheels/rims I have ever used, Mavic Crossmax, Chris King w/Stans Arch/Arch EX, etc., etc. 2 Sets built up with I9 rear hubs and a Chris King front and Hope Pro front. 
Best wheels I have ever had, been performing flawlessly for several months now.


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Hey I've only read about half of this thread. The start, some in the middle and the last few pages. Can someone sum up the difference between the 3 "Weave" options:
12k, 3k, and UD?

I like the look of the 3k Matte the best. I'd say my Tallboy LTc looks more like it resembles UD but I'm really not that picky. I just want to know if there is an appreciable strength/weight/stiffness difference between the 3 weaves?

I'm considering lacing these to my XTR hubs but not convinced it's really worth it. My Rear rim is a Mavic 719 (weighing 520g) but the front is a WTB I19 (which only weighs 409g). That's really not much of a weight savings. I thought carbon was lighter than that. Are there other benefits that really surpass weight?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

SJDude said:


> Hey I've only read about half of this thread. The start, some in the middle and the last few pages. Can someone sum up the difference between the 3 "Weave" options:
> 12k, 3k, and UD?
> 
> I like the look of the 3k Matte the best. I'd say my Tallboy LTc looks more like it resembles UD but I'm really not that picky. I just want to know if there is an appreciable strength/weight/stiffness difference between the 3 weaves?
> ...


You will gain a lot of stiffness with carbon. As far as the weaves, no differences, looks only.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

SJDude said:


> Can someone sum up the difference between the 3 "Weave" options:
> 12k, 3k, and UD?
> 
> I just want to know if there is an appreciable strength/weight/stiffness difference between the 3 weaves?
> ...


3K/12K/UD are purely cosmetic options that won't affect strength/weight/stiffness in any meaningful manner.

Compared to your rims, the LB rims will be FAR stiffer than both, much lighter than the 719, and arguably stronger/more durable than the I19 (though some on this thread will probably flame me for the durability comment). The LB rims are also wider, with all the consequences/benefits of that.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

dhegglin said:


> lb has 2 types. The narrower XC clincher version and the wider AM version. I had the wider version as I wanted it to be solid.


The wide rims are clinchers also.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

*Wide & extra materials / How to tell if you have old or new process...*



dhegglin said:


> lb has 2 types. The narrower XC clincher version and the wider AM version. I had the wider version as I wanted it to be solid.


Did you have the 30mm (OD) / 23mm (ID) rims and did you have addition extra material included as well? BTW, did you mention your weight?

When I ordered my rims (should ship in a week...), I was told that the lighter weight was around 380g. If I wanted the sturdier version that had more material, Nancy told me to state that I wanted the heavier weight (around 400g, although, I have sense seen some people with 420g rims).

LB introduced a new process and have articles on it on the their site. They provided more details on the new process for the 650b rims, as it appears that was the first rim using the new process. In a comment on that page from Jan 2013, Nancy stated that the 'new process' was currently only available for the 650b rims, and that the 29er rims would be later.

The following article tells how to identify if you have the old or new process based on the serial number: Big change-new manufacture process is applied for Mountain Bike(MTB) carbon rim.

BTW, I just read on the LB site: 
There is a new kind of 29er hookless rim (35mm outer width & 25mm depth) with new process. It's also tubeless-compatible. The weight is 420 /-15g and the price is USD180/pcs. Please find the attached cross-section drawing. Do you like this kind of rim?​
Might be worth considering, as these should be even more solid being hookless. I have thought about asking for a set instead of the hooked / 30mm (OD) set that I ordered. When I placed my order a couple of weeks back, I had considered waiting for the hookless design, but I was not sure if I wanted to go with 35mm (OD) wide rim given that I run 2.2" - 2.4" tires. My LBS actually wondered about me going with 30mm (OD) as most of the riding nearby is XC / Single-track.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

DeeZee said:


> Yikes! What kind of bike(s) were these on?


Dup


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

dhegglin said:


> 2011 Tallboy C


I have the same rims on a 2012 Tallboy and they have been fantastic for nearly two years. Built on DT Swiss hubs.

I have run really low pressure on them (20psi) and I weigh 185ish. Last month I noticed that the pressure was too low due to a crack I found on the rim bead hook. Still works tubeless and I raised the psi to 25.

Just received a new "hookless" rim that I will replace it with and will run at 25psi


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

DeeZee said:


> Just received a new "hookless" rim that I will replace it with and will run at 25psi


Did you go with the 27 mm or the 35 mm wide rim?

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

dhegglin said:


> View attachment 853479
> View attachment 853480
> 
> 
> There's one of my hubs


Thats impressive. But I'm not surprised. Those hubs are super cheap for a reason.

As for the rim. I've smashed my front wheel into baby heads a few times so far- hits that would have certainly put nice dents in an aluminum rim. No issues so far. Maybe that rim had voids in the layup.


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

How the heck do you do that to a hub? Built mine up on BHS hubs. Couldn't find much on them but what I did find was positive. Hope they hold up. I'm pretty sure the BHS hubs are the same as the Pure D400 hubs.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

I was under the impression that Novatec were good hubs. Now I'm thinking about spending the extra $220 for Hope Pro 2


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

TedS123 said:


> Did you go with the 27 mm or the 35 mm wide rim?
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


27mm 352g.

Really don't have a need for that wide of a rim for XC


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Kawigreen99 said:


> I was under the impression that Novatec were good hubs. Now I'm thinking about spending the extra $220 for Hope Pro 2


I advised my buddy to pay the extra amount for the Hopes. WAY better hub, easy to convert and parts are readily available.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> I advised my buddy to pay the extra amount for the Hopes. WAY better hub, easy to convert and parts are readily available.


I have the Hope Pro 2 Evo right now and I'm happy with them, I was just hoping to keep the cost as low as possible. The Hope/Crest combo was around $320 shipped! They've held up well but I think the stiffer carbon rim will ride better since I'm not a lightweight


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Kawigreen99 said:


> I have the Hope Pro 2 Evo right now and I'm happy with them, I was just hoping to keep the cost as low as possible. The Hope/Crest combo was around $320 shipped! They've held up well but I think the stiffer carbon rim will ride better since I'm not a lightweight


Carbon is your ticket. The weight savings is one thing but the stiffness is mind blowing.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Kawigreen99 said:


> I was under the impression that Novatec were good hubs. Now I'm thinking about spending the extra $220 for Hope Pro 2


I was under the same impression, and since I'm lightweight (120#), I can't really dish out the extra $200-$300 for Hope or CK until my D881/D882 hubs at $180 per set spit their guts out. Plus, I like silent hubs.

But I guess you can't go wrong with higher end hubs. That's why they cost so much hey.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> Carbon is your ticket. The weight savings is one thing but the stiffness is mind blowing.


That's good to hear. Weight savings + stiffer wheel should be great.



David C said:


> I was under the same impression, and since I'm lightweight (120#), I can't really dish out the extra $200-$300 for Hope or CK until my D881/D882 hubs at $180 per set spit their guts out. Plus, I like silent hubs.
> 
> But I guess you can't go wrong with higher end hubs. That's why they cost so much hey.


I'd rather not spend the extra $ either. Although I do like loud hubs, they let people know you're coming so they can(hopefully) get out of your way


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Does anyone have any info or examples of these chinese hoops being laced up to a set of straight pull I9 hubs?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Kawigreen99 said:


> Although I do like loud hubs, they let people know you're coming so they can(hopefully) get out of your way


That's wishful thinking


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

All - The rims are on the way -- 28-hole / UD / Mat. Have decided to go with I-9 hubs. Any feedback on spokes? Was seriously considering the DT Swiss Revolution or maybe the Sapin Laser, but was not sure how they would fair with the 29er rims and only 28-holes. If I do not go with either of these, will probably go with DT Swiss Super Comp's. I did see that LB will use the Pillar aero spoke PSR X-TRA 1420, which I am not sure how easy these are to source in the US. 

If there is a better thread for this discussion, or if already covered, please let me know. With gear, I weight 220lbs, and ride primarily XC / single track (some rock gardens and a few drops, but nothing too crazy as I am no longer as young as I used to be ;-)

Thx.


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## edibetta (Dec 8, 2010)

journey said:


> All - The rims are on the way -- 28-hole / UD / Mat. Have decided to go with I-9 hubs. Any feedback on spokes? Was seriously considering the DT Swiss Revolution or maybe the Sapin Laser, but was not sure how they would fair with the 29er rims and only 28-holes. If I do not go with either of these, will probably go with DT Swiss Super Comp's. I did see that LB will use the Pillar aero spoke PSR X-TRA 1420, which I am not sure how easy these are to source in the US.
> 
> If there is a better thread for this discussion, or if already covered, please let me know. With gear, I weight 220lbs, and ride primarily XC / single track (some rock gardens and a few drops, but nothing too crazy as I am no longer as young as I used to be ;-)
> 
> Thx.


I'm interested too. Carbon rim (350g more or less), Carbon Ti hub 28h (196g rear and 106g front), DT revolution spokes...... XC and singletrack.......on the paper they look wheels incredible.....on the trail?


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## 4212darren (Nov 15, 2005)

*Gold/carbon.*

Bought some LB wider 29ers, look great but won't get the beat test until Spring. Thanks to Industry Nine for lacing these beauties up.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

4212darren said:


> Bought some LB wider 29ers, look great but won't get the beat test until Spring. Thanks to Industry Nine for lacing these beauties up.
> View attachment 854661
> View attachment 854663


They look good.


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## HouseNotes (Aug 18, 2012)

They look real nice. Send them to me and I'll test them for you till spring.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

What do you mean no riding till spring ?

Here in Montreal, I take my 26" DH LB rims out all winter long. Even at -15°. You have no idea of what you're missing during your "off"-season.


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## trips (Dec 14, 2013)

Hello everyone,
I ordered the new LB 35mm hookless rims (30mm inside width) and need some advice with spoke choice. 
I'm building up a kona honzo that will see some occasional bike park and dh action, but mostly trail riding. The plan was to go with hope pro 2 evo, dt swiss comp spokes and brass nipples but most of the builds i have seen, seem to be built up with lighter spokes and nipples. 

My weight is 170 lb/ 77kg with gear. Would you advice getting some lighter spokes and nipples without sacrificing durability and stiffness? 
thanks


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

"You sent a payment of $393.30 USD to fang zhendong"

Well here;s to hoping Fang sends me a pair of 32 hole 3k matte hoops. 


Darren those are some sexy blingin wheels you got there. I'm not farmilliar with that spoke design, it looks like you have no nipples?


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## 4212darren (Nov 15, 2005)

SJDude said:


> "You sent a payment of $393.30 USD to fang zhendong"
> 
> Well here;s to hoping Fang sends me a pair of 32 hole 3k matte hoops.
> 
> Darren those are some sexy blingin wheels you got there. I'm not farmilliar with that spoke design, it looks like you have no nipples?


I had Light Bicycle Co. ship my rims directly to Industry Nine in NC, where they laced up their fat aluminum spokes to their new series Torch hubs. Nippleless design, proprietary spokes, custom colours, noisy freewheel and maximum bling.


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## edibetta (Dec 8, 2010)

4212darren said:


> I had Light Bicycle Co. ship my rims directly to Industry Nine in NC, where they laced up their fat aluminum spokes to their new series Torch hubs. Nippleless design, proprietary spokes, custom colours, noisy freewheel and maximum bling.


Hi, 
weight of both wheels?

cheers


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## 4212darren (Nov 15, 2005)

edibetta said:


> Hi,
> weight of both wheels?
> 
> cheers


My scale wasn't big enough to weigh them so I asked the builder but he didn't weigh them either. His best guess was 1530-1560g.
I'll update this when I get an actual weight.


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## edibetta (Dec 8, 2010)

Good results...they look strong for enduro trails!


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

4212darren said:


> I had Light Bicycle Co. ship my rims directly to Industry Nine in NC, where they laced up their fat aluminum spokes to their new series Torch hubs. Nippleless design, proprietary spokes, custom colours, noisy freewheel and maximum bling.


Nice. I had thought about doing that, but I decided to go with my LBS building the wheels. I did not find out what the final price would have been through I-9. Did they give you any credit for using your own rims?

My rims are on the way, and I stopped by my LBS this morning and ordered gold I-9 torch hubs. I am going with DT Super Comp spokes and gold alloy nipples. Won't be quite as much bling as the I-9 gold spokes but will have to do... ;-)

What do you ride that you went with gold? I have a SJ Elite (2013) that has gold / yellow highlights on a black frame. The OEM wheels looked good, but were heavy.

I did a night ride last week with a couple of guys riding I-9 hubs. One of them had the newer hubs and was telling me about them over food. He was so excited to show me how easy they disassembled, that he stepped out a few min early, and when we walked out, he had his bike off his car & the wheel off as well. He then proceeded to show how easy the hub came apart and was showing off the high engagement internals ;-)


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## 4212darren (Nov 15, 2005)

My bike is a Blue Ripley. No other gold on it, though the Kashima coated suspension is kinda goldish.
I'll post some bike pictures when my fork gets here.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I have no vested interest in this, but for those that race road or cross, and like tubulars, check these out. Bought a set and waiting on them to show up.

30mm wide, 30mm deep, 385g carbon tubulars. $365 + $80 shipping, for a PAIR.

****************1dl3uSz


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

*2014 newest Super light Novatec D771/D772 MTB hubs special for XX1 11S*

2014 newest Super light Novatec D771/D772 MTB hubs for 142x12 and 100x15 thru axles, special for XX1 11S, which hubs can be converted for Shimano/Sram.

Compared to D881/D882 hubs, these newest hubs are more than 200g lighter. Here are some pictures for these hubs. iPlay has these hubs available, we can assemble wheels with these hubs as well.

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## in-vico (Oct 3, 2012)

Can you have 35mm wide 29ers laced with the new D542SB rear hub?
Its the only novatec hub to have quick engagement, it have 3x2 pawls unsinchronized resulting in 4.28 degree of rotation before engagement (about 84 "points" or clicks).


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## RockyGuy (Aug 12, 2004)

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions about these rims. I finally got mine built up: LB 29er carbon XC rims, Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs (including the new 40T rear), Sapim CX-Ray spokes, and Sapim 12mm brass nipples. I went brass over alloy for the nipples given my proximity to the ocean and desire to use Stan's sealant. With brass there will be no corrosion concerns. The penalty was 21 grams per wheel.

The actual built weights were 755 grams for the front and 886 grams for the rear. The total wheelset weight came to 1,641 grams.

I can't wait to get the tires mounted and take them on their first ride.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

RockyGuy said:


> Thanks to everyone who answered my questions about these rims. I finally got mine built up: LB 29er carbon XC rims, Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs (including the new 40T rear), Sapim CX-Ray spokes, and Sapim 12mm brass nipples. I went brass over alloy for the nipples given my proximity to the ocean and desire to use Stan's sealant. With brass there will be no corrosion concerns. The penalty was 21 grams per wheel.
> 
> The actual built weights were 755 grams for the front and 886 grams for the rear. The total wheelset weight came to 1,641 grams.
> 
> ...


Like the stealth look..........enjoy!


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## RockyGuy (Aug 12, 2004)

Thanks ... that's what I was going for. I'm building up a Bailey carbon 29er and trying to keep everything carbon / black. The last parts are rolling in now ... I'll post build pics when I'm done.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

1640g seems heavy. Obviously the brass nipples add some weight over aluminum, but are those spokes much heavier than the on LB uses in their builds? As far as I know, the hope hubs are lighter than novatec, and LB claims 1460 for their set?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

The Hopes will add some weight... well at least they do compared to Stan's 3.30's (my only comparison).


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Hope hubs are not that light, but they are very well built. I am practically positive they are around 150 grams heavier than the Novatec's in question.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

RockyGuy (edit) -- Fine lookers you have there. Just wondering, what sizes of spokes did you use with that build?


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## Jon8500 (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks for posting your build Rockyguy. That's pretty much the spec I am going for. Nice to see the weights for them too.


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## RockyGuy (Aug 12, 2004)

Thanks. I calculated 292 and 294, but the wheel builder ended up using 290 and 292.


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## RockyGuy (Aug 12, 2004)

Thanks. Truth be told they came out a bit heavier than I might have liked, but overall I'm happy. I got some great prices on the rims and hubs with various sales, etc. so these wheels ended up being relatively affordable ($750 plus labor). I was thinking about spending (a lot) more on other hubs, but couldn't pass up the Hope hubs when I got the new 40T rear for a great price.

These should last a while and perform well. As long as that's the case I'll be thrilled.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

RockyGuy said:


> Thanks. Truth be told they came out a bit heavier than I might have liked, but overall I'm happy. I got some great prices on the rims and hubs with various sales, etc. so these wheels ended up being relatively affordable ($750 plus labor). I was thinking about spending (a lot) more on other hubs, but couldn't pass up the Hope hubs when I got the new 40T rear for a great price.
> 
> These should last a while and perform well. As long as that's the case I'll be thrilled.


My buddy had his Hope hubs built up by LB. Came in quite a bit lighter......... spokes and nipples?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> My buddy had his Hope hubs built up by LB. Came in quite a bit lighter......... spokes and nipples?
> 
> Nipples, yes, but not sure I trust the accuracy of that scale.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Adroit Rider said:


> DeeZee said:
> 
> 
> > My buddy had his Hope hubs built up by LB. Came in quite a bit lighter......... spokes and nipples?
> ...


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

What are some brass nipple options with the light bicycle wider Mt bike rims?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

On LB's website they have 2 types of spokes, DT Revolution and Pillar Aero X-TRA 1420. Is there a big difference between the two? I'm only about 140lbs so would either one make any difference to the wheel set?


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## leachy_9 (Nov 4, 2010)

I have just received my LB 27mm hookless rims. I have measured the ERD by threading nipples onto two spokes, which have been cut to 200mm, inserting the spokes into opposite sides of the rim and measuring the distance between the spoke ends. This is giving me a result of 596mm but the LB website states an ERD of 592mm. What ERD have others used when calculating spoke length for the LB 27mm hookless rims?

Andrew


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

got my hookless rims built up. it seems as though LB listened when alot of people complained about the erd on thier rims being short. thus the spoke ran out of thread before some people were satisfied with spoke tension. 
initial tightening of all the nipples to the end of the spoke threads. reviled tension on the tension meter. i used the same spoke length calculator that i used with the 27.5 lb rims.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Kidd, did you copy and paste this from your post over on the 'hookless rim' thread? It's the exact same post.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

yes i did. figured it would be easier to search my posts and copy/paste. some of these threads are so long i rely on the forums latest post function. allot of times i miss conversations. so i give people the benefit of doubt that they aren't posting redundant questions.


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks Kidd, I didn't even know the Hookless Rim thread existed...


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

Just wanted to update. Ordered 29er AM wheels in 12k on 11/6 and they arrived on 12/02. weighed in at 379/381. I built them with DT Comp spokes, alloy nips and BHS hubs. Total f/r 1595 grams. About 60 miles on them and they are awesome.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

pics please


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone! Hope Santa gave you what you ask for this year.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

h82crash said:


> Ordered 29er AM wheels in 12k on 11/6 and they arrived on 12/02. weighed in at 379/381. I built them with DT Comp spokes, alloy nips and BHS hubs. Total f/r 1595 grams.


How many spokes are your wheels and what type of axles do you have?

My rims arrived on 12/23, and I dropped them off at my LBS 15 minutes later ;-) I originally planned on using DT Super Comp spokes, but given that I am 200 lbs and have 28-hole rims, my LBS is recommending DT Comp or heavier spokes. Will see how that the trade-off works out.


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

They are 15mm front and QRx135 rear. 32 spoke front and rear. I am 245 lbs and ride mild aggressive XC. So far no issues. Laced myself. Here's a photo with them mounted on the bike with a Bontrager XR1 Team Issue rear and Conti Race King RS tubeless.


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## Flying (Aug 10, 2013)

Just a hint to those who intend sending hubs up to LB for the build .

I did exactly that and in the end am extremely happy with the build quality and product.
However, do include LBS phone number on your package as the local delivery guys do not read English.
I did not do this and it added about ten days for my hubs to arrive. At one stage I had written them off. Great outcome but a mistake easily avoided.
After 5 months of riding I couldn't be happier.
Cheers F


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## Couloirman (Sep 17, 2010)

Just placed my order for a set of XC rims from Nancy. They have an outer width of 34mm-- does that mean I can't go any lower than 35mm in tire width? I wanted to be able to switch these rims back and forth between cross and mountain bike so was hoping to run 700x35 tires on it during cross season and for long gravel road tours. Sound safe enough? Or is 35 mm too narrow as well? Can I go any lower to 33mm and trust the pressure from the tube will push out the bead well enough that it will hold?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The tire will probably hold on the rim with no issues, but the issue is that the tire will be so flattened out that your handling will not be great and you will not have much tread running down the side so when cornering you might run out of tread.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Coulior man chart about 3/4 of the way down list tyre rim compatibility.

Tire Sizing Systems


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

That chart is a little out of date since it is recommending that you only use rims 25 mm or wider with 2.12 inch tires and wider. Most modern MTB tires that are over 2" are probably designed around a 21mm-23mm rim and the really wide ones like 2.3" are probably designed around a 25mm rim. This is evidenced by the fact that if you put an Ikon 2.2 on a 25mm rim, it is easy to wash the front because the knobs do not go down the side far enough. So to me it looks like Maxxis is designing around the realities of the available rims. Others such as WTB and Schwalbe seem to be designing their wider tires around the wider rims since their knobs tend to run down the side further, but then their tires would not tend to work as well on narrower rims as they would be too "pointy" (tall in the center).

In my opinion, the rim technology has fallen behind the tire tech. As we are starting to see more rims with internal widths around 29mm, the wider 2.3-2.4 tires will start to be designed for these rims and then we will be back to where this chart is recommending. If you extend this chart out, it would be recommending around a 29mm rim with a 2.35 tire.

But the general idea is supported by the chart that you wouldn't want to put a narrow tire on a wide rim.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Couloirman said:


> Just placed my order for a set of XC rims from Nancy. They have an outer width of 34mm-- does that mean I can't go any lower than 35mm in tire width? I wanted to be able to switch these rims back and forth between cross and mountain bike so was hoping to run 700x35 tires on it during cross season and for long gravel road tours. Sound safe enough? Or is 35 mm too narrow as well? Can I go any lower to 33mm and trust the pressure from the tube will push out the bead well enough that it will hold?


The internal rim width is important.

The 29er XC Light Bicyle rim is 21mm internal/27.4mm external.
The wider 29er XC/AM Light Bicycle rim is 23mm internal/30mm external. (I have these)
The Hookless 29er Light Bicycle rim is 22mm internal/27mm external.

Going by the chart (conservative as it is - and perhaps as mentioned above, a bit aged) - it looks like the 23mm internal rim width of your new rims would be "safe" with tires that start at 40mm in width.



That's not to say you couldn't go down to a 38, 37, or even a true 35mm width, but as mentioned - it will flatten the tire out and if hoping to run typical low cyclocross psi for traction and suspension - it may or may not be the best in terms of rim strikes, pinch flats, etc... . Looks like the narrower XC Light Bicycle rim with the internal rim width of 21mm would have most likely been the more appropriate choice for Cyclocross.

That being said, if your frame on the Cross bike has the clearance for 38mm - 41mm tires, why not go with the extra volume? Then you will be good to go on the AM Light Bicycle rims for both applications on gravel and cross races.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i'm using the a set of 700x38c on a set of the hookless bead. running tubeless all the way down to 40psi.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

From clicking on the link for the hookless rims, don't the specs say 22mm internal width, not 24? Looks like the depth is 24. Am I misreading something?


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

epiphreddy said:


> From clicking on the link for the hookless rims, don't the specs say 22mm internal width, not 24? Looks like the depth is 24. Am I misreading something?


You are right 22 mm inner 24 mm depth 27 mm outer.
Getting ready to order a set ASAP


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I know there is thread about the hookless rims, but wouldn't (for 25 grams more each) people want the extra mm of width? I know they say the hookless is "stronger", but if you have your tires pumped up properly how would you ever tell that they are "stronger". Does this apply to rock strikes, or are they stiffer also? Not sure I get it other than to maybe save 50 grams at the expense of losing 1mm of width.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

You are correct. My bad. Edited my post to correct the 52 year old vision!!!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I like playing around with stuff like this and I worked out all the math to extend the chart. If you take the ratio of the inner rim width to average tire width it starts out at .59 (13/22) and gradually falls to .5 and more or less stays there so I used .48 for 27 and 29 thinking it might fall a little more and then gave it the same overall range as the other rim sizes. It works out that a 27mm rim would be good from 1.96 to 2.44 inche tires (basically 90% of all current MTB tires) and that 29mm would work best for 2.12 to 2.6 tires. Since I don't see frames handling tires much larger than 2.4 inches (unless you go to a fat bike with wider crank spacing, etc.) the 27mm rim might become the defacto standard with 29 being the size that those that want really big tires. However, the middle size for a 29mm rim would be a 2.36 tire so I think in most cases the 27 would be the best pick. 28mm rim anyone? The median size for that rim is ~2.25 inches and a range of 2 to 2.5 inches.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Hey BruceBrown wait 'till you get to 60 and the rods don't transmit nearly as much light. Flashlights are your friends.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

where is the best place to get straight pull spokes? Recommendations on cheap/strong/light (lol) spokes?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> Hey BruceBrown wait 'till you get to 60 and the rods don't transmit nearly as much light. Flashlights are your friends.


I just downloaded the free APP for my iPhone to turn it into a flashlight so I can read menus in those dimly lit restaurants. So I'm on my way!!!!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

BruceBrown said:


> I just downloaded the free APP for my iPhone to turn it into a flashlight so I can read menus in those dimly lit restaurants. So I'm on my way!!!!


Unless you're rocking a very old iPhone and/or version of iOS, you have a built in flashlight in the Control Center.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Unless you're rocking a very old iPhone and/or version of iOS, you have a built in flashlight in the Control Center.


I know, but the downloaded APP is more my speed with the switch and accompanying noise it makes... . I also got a couple of better camera APPs and Calculator APPs than those in the control center.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

I just built up a set of 27.5 rims. The set weighed in at 1460 grams (my 29er set was 1470). Again, just an amazing wheelset/rims. I put them on my convert Mojo HD.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Just received my 30mm wide rims in the mail. UD matte carbon, 32h. Both exactly 381g with no visible imperfections, I'm extremely pleased with the quality, (well quality appearance at least). Now I just need to figure out what hubs to lace them to.

Any suggestions?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

American Classic or DT240


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

rusty904 said:


> Just received my 30mm wide rims in the mail. UD matte carbon, 32h. Both exactly 381g with no visible imperfections, I'm extremely pleased with the quality, (well quality appearance at least). Now I just need to figure out what hubs to lace them to.
> 
> Any suggestions?


With each ride on my new bike with light-bike custom wheels I'm further convince ill never by a prebuilt wheelset again and I may have become an Industry Nine customer for the foreseeable future. But its hard to go wrong with any of the high end boutique hubs as long as your wallet is deep enough.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

yourdaguy said:


> American Classic or DT240


After a chat with the LBS I went with hadley rear, hope front. I would have gone for a match but hadley front hubs were out of stock. Saved me about $100 too. I think the total with the rims, spokes, hubs, labor ended up around $800 or so. That's quite a bit more than I've ever spent on a bike component! I'll post up pics when they're done.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

rusty904 said:


> After a chat with the LBS I went with hadley rear, hope front. I would have gone for a match but hadley front hubs were out of stock. Saved me about $100 too. I think the total with the rims, spokes, hubs, labor ended up around $800 or so. That's quite a bit more than I've ever spent on a bike component! I'll post up pics when they're done.


Front hubs are pretty simple. I would be surprised if anybody could tell the difference between a bling hub and a mid-range hub like a Hope... or even a lower rent hub. Honestly, I don't know if I could ever justify a $300+ front hub, apart from sheer bling factor. May as well tape $100 bills to the frame, IMO. Naturally, it's nice to match the front and rear. 

Also, AC hubs have 18 point engagement. Screw that. That right there would disqualify that from ever being on my bike.

As far as machine built wheels go, the easy fix is to take them to the LBS and have them loosened up and retensioned by a wheel tech that knows what s/he's doing. The problem with machine built wheels is that the machines aren't paying attention to individual spoke tension, spoke wind-up, or stress relieving that a human will do.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Also, AC hubs have 18 point engagement. Screw that. That right there would disqualify that from ever being on my bike.


From the internet:
All six steel pawls are over sized and supposed to engage simultaneously under pedaling into the 24 toothed ratchet on the cassette body. Each steel pawl is double tipped for 12 points of engagement.

AC hubs have 24 POE but only 12 are actually engaged at one time?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Rusty904 :Hope front hubs are the easiest to change from QR to 15MM of all hubs made. If you ever have 2 different forks and need to change you will appreciate the 30 second job. they are also a sturdy hub although there is not much to a front hub. Hadley are probably the most durable rear hubs made so I think your LBS steered you right.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

yourdaguy said:


> American Classic or DT240


Dt over ac for rear hubs.
Take a look at both of there internals and you will probably come up with the same conclusion.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well I have both and the AC was less money and is lighter. Both are on single speeds and I notice no difference in engagement and think that points of engagement is way overrated. Also the flange design of the AC builds a more symmetrical wheel so that flex is close in both directions and at least in theory should build a longer lasting wheel. Another advantage of the AC hubs is that I was able to use one size of spokes for the entire wheelset saving even more money and then if you want to carry a spare one spoke covers everything.

I don't really have anything bad to say about the DT hubs, I just think the AC are a way better deal. Also, there is one thing I don't like about the AC hubs. If you want to convert to 15mm from QR it is way the most trouble. Hope actually wins this contest as it takes 30 seconds to convert a front hope from QR to 15mm and back. AC takes about 1 minute and a half. I have never done the DT change because the parts cost is around $60 and it looks like a 15 minute job so I just use my DT wheelset full time on my full rigid SS.

I have seen the internals of both hubs and I see no specific deficiencies in the AC rear hub. Can you point out the engineering flaws in the AC hub?


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I9 Torch over DT and AC. If you ride in rocky technical areas where you pedal and occasionally ratchet or start/stop pedaling often, the instant engagement cannot be beat and without it you will never know what you are missing. And with I9 converting to whatever is really easy.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

yourdaguy said:


> Rusty904 :Hope front hubs are the easiest to change from QR to 15MM of all hubs made. If you ever have 2 different forks and need to change you will appreciate the 30 second job. they are also a sturdy hub although there is not much to a front hub. Hadley are probably the most durable rear hubs made so I think your LBS steered you right.


That was my basic reasoning. I like the TI freehub body on the hadleys and they seem to offer all of the advantages of the CK hubs at a much cheaper price. My hub set was cheaper than the rear CK hub. Only disadvantage was that I had to choose black instead of a blingy color. Oh well, small sacrifice. Never ridden a high POE hub before.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

rusty904 said:


> That was my basic reasoning. I like the TI freehub body on the hadleys and they seem to offer all of the advantages of the CK hubs at a much cheaper price. My hub set was cheaper than the rear CK hub. Only disadvantage was that I had to choose black instead of a blingy color. Oh well, small sacrifice. Never ridden a high POE hub before.


Why did you have to choose black? Hadley hubs come in several colors.

Hadley hubs are fantastic....good choice:thumbsup:


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

DeeZee said:


> Why did you have to choose black? Hadley hubs come in several colors.
> 
> Hadley hubs are fantastic....good choice:thumbsup:


Black was the only color that I was sure would match up with the hope. I wanted blue but the hadley blue looks a bit brighter and more turquoise in photos than hope blue. Not to mention blue hadleys were backordered for weeks from my LBS's distributor.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

rusty904 said:


> Black was the only color that I was sure would match up with the hope. I wanted blue but the hadley blue looks a bit brighter and more turquoise in photos than hope blue. Not to mention blue hadleys were backordered for weeks from my LBS's distributor.


Got it


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## alias33 (Sep 22, 2008)

I just got my 35 mm nextie bicycle 29'er rims today and they came in under weight at 411/415 grams for the two rims, can't wait to lace these up to some I9 hubs and spokes. Any recommendations for spokes?


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

> Any recommendations for spokes?
How many holes in the rims, what is your riding style, what type of terrain do you ride and what is our weight?


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## alias33 (Sep 22, 2008)

32 hole rims, i'm 180 lbs and do a few xc races a year and mostly trail riding with no big drops, something thats nice and light. Mostly rolling terrain with a few rock bashing sessions in colorado here and there. I ride a 29'er ripley with 120mm of travel, so a spoke that best fits, I want the best I can get since I'm building them myself


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

sweet! i have a pair of those on order too. 
i'm going to lace mine up to hope hubs with sapim cx-ray spokes


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## moonluv810 (Jul 10, 2013)

Probably a stupid question, but I never had anything carbon.

Would it be okay to use a wall hanger to store a bike with carbon wheels?
Considering the entire weight of the bike is put on a tiny area of the wheel...

Thanks!


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

moonluv810 said:


> Probably a stupid question, but I never had anything carbon.
> 
> Would it be okay to use a wall hanger to store a bike with carbon wheels?
> Considering the entire weight of the bike is put on a tiny area of the wheel...
> ...


Its okay.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

moonluv810 said:


> Probably a stupid question, but I never had anything carbon.
> 
> Would it be okay to use a wall hanger to store a bike with carbon wheels?
> Considering the entire weight of the bike is put on a tiny area of the wheel...
> ...


It's ok as long as it doesn't have sharp stuff. I don't think this is you, but some people use big nails for wall hooks.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

My bikes live upside down


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You better watch out for the ASPCB (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Bikes).


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

alias33 said:


> 32 hole rims, i'm 180 lbs and do a few xc races a year and mostly trail riding with no big drops, something thats nice and light. Mostly rolling terrain with a few rock bashing sessions in colorado here and there. I ride a 29'er ripley with 120mm of travel, so a spoke that best fits, I want the best I can get since I'm building them myself


I picked up my built wheels late Tues and just finished installing my tires, disc & cassette. I am not going to be able to do a trail ride till this weekend (assuming the rains hold off), but I am going to take them on a night ride to a local running trail in a few minutes -- it is killing me to try them out ;-) My riding impressions will follow, but back to spokes...

My finished wheel set weighs in at 1600g -- Gold I-9 Torch hubs, Gold DT Alum. nipples, DT Comp spokes, and Stans rim tape/stems. I am guessing that the tape & stems weigh between 60-70g, as I calculated the weight to be 1535g (mind you, I do not remember what length spokes I used for my calc's, which could affect the estimate...).

My comments are primarily based on feedback from my LBS wheel builder that has a good rep in our local area. My riding style / terrain is similar to yours. I am ~215 lbs with gear (I sometimes carry a first aid pack w/ 2-3L of water...). I ride a Specialized StumpJumper with 130mm of travel. My current wheels, a set of DT400 rims w/ 28 spokes & DT350 hubs, I have knocked out of true a couple of times on a nearby trails when I have picked poor lines and hit 4-6" rocks head on. The rims are more narrow and are recommended for someone who is 200 lbs--I realized when I purchased these what I was getting (and was hoping to loose 10-20 pounds ;-)

My LB rims are the 30mm OD and have 28-holes--their weights were 376 & 382g. I reasoned with the wider rims I could get away with a lower spoke count -- we will see...

Anyway, due to my weight & 28 holes, my wheel builder recommended against the lighter weight spokes, such as the DT Super Comps or the bladed CX-Rays / Pillar Aero. Actually, he is not into the bladed spokes for various reasons. Additionally, before he started the build, he had mentioned the possibility of using a non-butted spoke for the drive side of the rear wheel. He decided that he was being a bit too conservative and used DT Comps for both wheels. I have read of other builders using a heavier / stronger spoke on the drive side when using light weight spokes on the non-drive side, so that may be an option for you.

Given our weight differences and the higher spoke count for your wheels, it would make sense that you could get away with a lighter spoke, such as the DT Super Comp. If you want to deal with building wheels using a bladed spoke, definitely consider Pillar Aero or CX-Rays -- mind you, if you have the $$'s, you could consider the Sapim Superspoke. For a price comparison, I found the following weights / prices when comparing spokes: DT Comp (6.0g) / Super Comp (5.0g) - ~$1 each. Sapim CX-Ray (4.4g) - ~$3.25 each. Sapin Superspoke (3.6g) - $9 each. I only briefly researched the Superspoke--the wheelbuilder site indicates that while they may be stronger than the CX-Ray, the Superspoke will not have as much lateral stiffness due to it being thinner. It would definitely be an "exotic" wheel set ;-)

Mind you, if you would consider putting that amount of $$'s into the spokes (i.e., over $500), you might consider sending the rims directly to I-9, and have them build the wheels for you with their hubs & custom spokes. My understanding, is combination would provide you with the ultimate LB wheel set ;-) There was a recent posting by someone who had the rims sent directly to I-9. I just checked -- look at post #4837.

Good luck with your final plans. Let us know how it turns out.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

RojoRacing53 said:


> My bikes live upside down
> View attachment 859218


Love it -- I had to do a double take when I first looked at your picture ;-) I see that you keep a ladder handy for this setup.

I have a friend that keeps his bikes at ceiling height using a rope/pulley setups, although, he only had carbon rims on his rode bike.


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## Jeepman128 (Apr 21, 2012)

*Advice Needed*

Hey There, I was hoping someone can shed some light and provide some recommendations for me. I am from AZ and ride (70%XC 30%AM). There are rocks everywhere out here and always a part of the ride.

I weigh 200lbs with my camelback on and am 6'3". The wheels would be mounted on my Niner Jet RDO. I currently am on a set of Easton XCT70's and would like a wider inner rim profile (XCT is 19mm) and a lighter/stiffer rim combo. This rim combo has been very reliable but I am not in love with how narrow they are.
Here are a few questions for you all:

*Which Rim should I get when looking to air up tubeless? (Hookless or Standard)

*Which Spoke count should I get? 32?

*Which hub is a decent hub to use (on par with the Easton's I have now)?

*Which Spokes are decent set to purchase?

I will have a local wheel builder build up the set. I was hoping to spend less than a grand for everything and have the set weigh less than 1600 grams.
Thanks in advance!:thumbsup:


----------



## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

journey said:


> Love it -- I had to do a double take when I first looked at your picture ;-) I see that you keep a ladder handy for this setup.
> 
> I have a friend that keeps his bikes at ceiling height using a rope/pulley setups, although, he only had carbon rims on his rode bike.


Ladder was there because I just got done mounting all the hangers. You need to be just short of tippy toed to lift the bars on and off the hanger but the MTBs are easy, and it's all well above head height to no bumping you head. My last garage was another 18" higher so no handlebar hooks needed, you just hung by the wheels and they were above your head.

So not to completely derail thread yes I'm still loving my LB AM rims on I9 hubs with over a 1000 miles so far and still true


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Jeepman128 said:


> Here are a few questions for you all:
> 
> *Which Rim should I get when looking to air up tubeless? (Hookless or Standard)
> 
> ...


Part of the service of having someone build your wheels is to listen to your needs, recommend parts, and then construct and warranty their craftsmanship.

To keep it under a grand you may have to rule out the lightest hubs (DT Swiss 240) and decide between noise, POE and weight. With a lot of slow, rocky, twisty riding you may want a high POE but if you ride fast/flowy trails you may want quiet and weight savings.

Do you have a pair of donor hubs you could use? How banged up are your Easton wheels? Are you keeping them for backup?


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## HouseNotes (Aug 18, 2012)

journey said:


> I picked up my built wheels late Tues and just finished installing my tires, disc & cassette. I am not going to be able to do a trail ride till this weekend (assuming the rains hold off), but I am going to take them on a night ride to a local running trail in a few minutes -- it is killing me to try them out ;-) My riding impressions will follow, but back to spokes...
> 
> My finished wheel set weighs in at 1600g -- Gold I-9 Torch hubs, Gold DT Alum. nipples, DT Comp spokes, and Stans rim tape/stems. I am guessing that the tape & stems weigh between 60-70g, as I calculated the weight to be 1535g (mind you, I do not remember what length spokes I used for my calc's, which could affect the estimate...).
> 
> ...


FYI, I sent an email to I9 requesting pricing on sending them the rims and having them build them up using their hubs & spokes. Here is their response:

The starting price for a build to any rim that we don't spec is $1100. Any custom spoke length charges and custom color charges would apply from there. If we don't have a stock spoke length the custom spoke price is $160. And custom color options could add as much as $265. Sorry for the delayed response, I have just fixed a problem we were having with the [email protected] address. If you have any more questions let me know.

-- 
Ted Quevedo
Industry Nine Componentry

To me, this seemed an outrageous price to pay to get proprietary spokes(and bling) aprox. $1500.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Standard wide-although I am sure some will argue with this but they are wider and with the bontrager strip make the best sealing tubeless setup ever.
32 gives the most hub choices and the strongest wheels. Less means less weight next choice down is 28. At your weight I would not go below 28.
American Classic, DT 240, for less money and more weight Hope ProII Evo are the best bang for the buck, but will be close on being under 1600 grams. I-9 if you want bling and don't care about money.
DT Revolution spokes are light strong and easy to work with. Also, they are around $1 a spoke anything much lighter is generally 2 to 3 times that.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

HouseNotes said:


> FYI, I sent an email to I9 requesting pricing on sending them the rims and having them build them up using their hubs & spokes. Here is their response:
> 
> The starting price for a build to any rim that we don't spec is $1100. Any custom spoke length charges and custom color charges would apply from there. If we don't have a stock spoke length the custom spoke price is $160. And custom color options could add as much as $265. Sorry for the delayed response, I have just fixed a problem we were having with the [email protected] address. If you have any more questions let me know.
> 
> ...


Have you checked out lacemine29 dot com for building your wheel set that's where I'm sending mine.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

HouseNotes said:


> To me, this seemed an outrageous price to pay to get proprietary spokes(and bling) aprox. $1500.


I agree.
I have a set of the Industry Nine wheels and I was willing to sell them, but they didn't go. So I ordered two 35mm wide Nextie rims to rebuild the I9s with. LB 30mm wide would have been a better match ERD-wise for the I9's Arch, but I didn't want to pass on the extra width.


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## Serenity Now (Jun 6, 2006)

You know LB also do a 35mm rim right? That's likely what I'll order as I'd prefer hookless.

I don't really get the attraction of Industry Nine. I have a set on my 26er (never use them), and really think they're overrated. Spokes have been really brittle in my experience. And hubs are nothing special. That's just one man's opinion though.

I've gone back to DT 240's.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Serenity Now said:


> You know LB also do a 35mm rim right? That's likely what I'll order as I'd prefer hookless.


Yes I know. I'd prefer hookless too, but those LS rims are way deeper then the Archs, so no way I could build my I9s with them.



> I don't really get the attraction of Industry Nine. I have a set on my 26er (never use them), and really think they're overrated. Spokes have been really brittle in my experience. And hubs are nothing special. That's just one man's opinion though.


That's my opinion too.
I'm going to rebuild my I9s only because I've not been able to sell them. 
If I had, I would have gone with LB hookless (or Derbys if budget was high enough) on Chris King hubs.


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## Jeepman128 (Apr 21, 2012)

Adroit Rider said:


> Part of the service of having someone build your wheels is to listen to your needs, recommend parts, and then construct and warranty their craftsmanship.
> 
> To keep it under a grand you may have to rule out the lightest hubs (DT Swiss 240) and decide between noise, POE and weight. With a lot of slow, rocky, twisty riding you may want a high POE but if you ride fast/flowy trails you may want quiet and weight savings.
> 
> Do you have a pair of donor hubs you could use? How banged up are your Easton wheels? Are you keeping them for backup?


The hubs are in great shape.. I was thinking of selling them to help recoup some of the costs. I definitely do more fast/flowy trails


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

*Roval Control conversion*

Here's my Roval Control 29 hub and spokes now laced to the LB wider clincher rim in 3K. Rim came in at 398 grams, as compared to the 452 grams of the ally Control rim.

Straight swap onto the existing hub and spokes as the erd is the same at 603 mm.

Built weight as shown is 754 grams.


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## Serenity Now (Jun 6, 2006)

savo said:


> Yes I know. I'd prefer hookless too, but those LS rims are way deeper then the Archs, so no way I could build my I9s with them.
> 
> That's my opinion too.
> I'm going to rebuild my I9s only because I've not been able to sell them.
> If I had, I would have gone with LB hookless (or Derbys if budget was high enough) on Chris King hubs.


Ah Gotcha. Yeah I understand. I already have Enve AM wheels, so it's really hard to justify another $1,000+ on a 2nd wheelset, but I am really intrigued by the wider rims, and my Enve's are a PITA to run tubeless. I'd certainly pony up for the Derby's if they were my only wheelset, as I also like inner rim profile and shorter spoke lengths of the Derby's


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## alias33 (Sep 22, 2008)

Anyone having any issues with the newer hope evo 2 40 pt hubs? I know they are a little heavy, but they are a cheaper alternative to the I9 classics (uses regular J bend spokes) and they are only a few grams heavier. Is there another hubset out there that I could consider that is maybe lighter? I'd like to keep the weight down as low as possible and the wheels as service friendly too. Are there any special tools required to rebuild the evo2's?


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

Well I placed my order for the new 29er hookless rims and a set of their 650b rims. Going to build the 29in with the Roval Hubs off my Control El wheelset and the 650b with my American Classic hubs. Are most of you using 12mm 1.8 nipples for spokes?


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

HouseNotes said:


> The starting price for a build to any rim that we don't spec is $1100...
> 
> To me, this seemed an outrageous price to pay to get proprietary spokes(and bling) aprox. $1500.


Thanks for the information. It did confirm my choice and my comments to the rider asking about the 'best' spokes to get (i.e., Sapim SuperSpoke at $9 each would be nearly the same cost as shipping the rims to I9, and have them build the wheels with their custom hub / spokes).

The cost is all relative though -- the total cost of building a set of carbon wheels using these 'cheap' rims, even with moderate hubs, is more than I spent on my first full-suspension MTB 10 years ago... 

Yes, $1500 is more than I was willing to spend, but when you consider the most basic I9 wheelset on their website starts at $1195 and the Carbon I9's start at $2500, the $1500 is in line with those prices.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

Jeepman128 said:


> The hubs are in great shape.. I was thinking of selling them to help recoup some of the costs. I definitely do more fast/flowy trails


Have you looked at DT350 hubs? For the axle / spoke combination I was considering, the DT350's only weighed about ~50g more for the set than the DT240's, but cost a couple hundred less than the DT240's. By default, the DT350's come with the lower POE count (i.e., 18 pt), but they can be upgraded to 36 POE (and shed a few grams in the process...).

Earlier this year, I picked up a set of wheels with DT350 hubs / DT400 rims for cheap. While I plan to use these with more street friendly tires for when it rains (has been doing that too much recently), I had seriously thought about using the DT350 hubs with the LB rims I had order ;-)


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

Triaxtremec said:


> Well I placed my order for the new 29er hookless rims and a set of their 650b rims. Going to build the 29in with the Roval Hubs off my Control El wheelset and the 650b with my American Classic hubs. Are most of you using 12mm 1.8 nipples for spokes?


Err, no expert on this, being a first time wheel builder. That said, I just matched the Control hub nipples, ordering 14mm by 14 gauge (which is 2mm I believe). Got em from Alloy Nipples with the Unior spoke key to suit.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Does anyone have experience with LB's either wider rim or hook-less rim and Conti's Race King RaceSport (not tubeless-ready bead!)? 

Does it seat with a floor pump? 

Does the tire fall back into the center when deflated? Probably an issue with the hookless rim?

Any burping?

Stan's yellow strip sufficient or is a rubber rim-strip required?

Any comparision with Stan's BST rims at low pressure? I really love Stan's BST rims for this.

Thanks!


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

*Here's my review of the LB wheelset*

Hi gang. After much thought and reading the first 45 pages of this thread I decided to buy wheels. I bought the following:
Rims: UD, matte, 32holes Hubs: black Novatec D811-15mm thru axle/ rear D812 135mm standard qr Spokes: black pillar 1420 aero Nipples: blue 3pcs extra spoke & nipple for $688 including shipping to MIA FL. Three weeks to the day I bought them, they were at my local post office to be picked up. Yea!









Wow, they sure seem light.. Let me make them heavy with some $25 VeeRubber Speed Mission R's 2.4s and then put them on my 2008 Astrix Rook and then go ride/race.









At this pont wheels have about 20 hours into them. They are true, they have no issues, and they spin smooth. i used the exact Bontrager strips Bob Brown told me to get and they are tubeless fine and dandy. I weigh 210 lbs and I ride in South Florida. Thanks to all those who gave advice.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Just an FYI, I received my Light-Bicycle Hookless bead 29er rims last week and they look really nice. 357/357g for the UD XC rims. These with 28 hole Bike Hub store 15mm/142mm hubs, Sapim Laser spokes, 1410g on my scale. $605.00 all in. The Bike Hub Store hubs (Bitex) are the bargain of the century. I have 3000mi on the road version I built up 18 months ago and they have been great. I'm going to build the wheels up next week, Ill give a follow up then.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

jvossman said:


> They are true, they have no issues, and they spin smooth. i used the exact Bontrager strips *Bob Brown* told me to get and they are tubeless fine and dandy.


My Uncle Bob would be proud. :thumbsup:


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Rivet said:


> Just an FYI, I received my Light-Bicycle Hookless bead 29er rims last week and they look really nice. 357/357g for the UD XC rims. These with 28 hole Bike Hub store 15mm/142mm hubs, Sapim Laser spokes, 1410g on my scale. $605.00 all in. The Bike Hub Store hubs (Bitex) are the bargain of the century. I have 3000mi on the road version I built up 18 months ago and they have been great. I'm going to build the wheels up next week, Ill give a follow up then.


What nipples?


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

ack! Sorry Bruce. With a two and four year old girls, sleep deprivation makes me loopy.


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## LazyRider (May 10, 2012)

quax said:


> Does anyone have experience with LB's either wider rim or hook-less rim and Conti's Race King RaceSport (not tubeless-ready bead!)?


Ive set up x-kings racesport tubeless on my wide rims (not hookless). Used a Bontrager rimstrip, have not tried tape.
Left them with inflated with an inner tube for a few weeks and then set them up tubeless. They seated very easy with a floorpump. The sidewalls were leaking heavily but now appear to be sealed. (used lots of latex and left it on its side overnight).

I rode it once while it was still leaking a lot and rode till it was almost deflated on asphalt, the tire remained seated.


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Rivet said:


> Just an FYI, I received my Light-Bicycle Hookless bead 29er rims last week and they look really nice. 357/357g for the UD XC rims. These with 28 hole Bike Hub store 15mm/142mm hubs, Sapim Laser spokes, 1410g on my scale. $605.00 all in. The Bike Hub Store hubs (Bitex) are the bargain of the century. I have 3000mi on the road version I built up 18 months ago and they have been great. I'm going to build the wheels up next week, Ill give a follow up then.


Id love to see these built up, make sure you post a pic. Im thinking of almost that exact build. What tires will you run?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

jvossman said:


> View attachment 860545


It looks like LB has improved their packaging.

When my rims were delivered, they were put in a regular cardboard box and had a bit of paper between them to prevent scratching. In that picture it looks like they now have custom cardboard inserts to better hold the wheels in place.

Or perhaps they've always done that if you buy complete wheels rather than rims. Can anyone comment on recently shipped rims?


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

My "rims" each came in a bubble warp style sleeve/bag and had a single pice of cardboard between them. I was happy wish how they came, that was about three months ago.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> What nipples?


Sapim 2.0 (14mm)


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

Rivet said:


> Just an FYI, I received my Light-Bicycle Hookless bead 29er rims last week and they look really nice. 357/357g for the UD XC rims. These with 28 hole Bike Hub store 15mm/142mm hubs, Sapim Laser spokes, 1410g on my scale. $605.00 all in. The Bike Hub Store hubs (Bitex) are the bargain of the century. I have 3000mi on the road version I built up 18 months ago and they have been great. I'm going to build the wheels up next week, Ill give a follow up then.


Looks like a good build, I may end up doing the same. What were the spoke lengths needed? Did you get the 252 or the 272 rear hub? Thanks


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Off the top of my head I believe all 279s (Sapim only does odd) 2 cross. 252 hub .


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

Does anyone have experience with LB's either wider rim or hook-less rim and Conti's Race King RaceSport (not tubeless-ready bead!)? Yes, on standard wide rims.

Does it seat with a floor pump? No

Does the tire fall back into the center when deflated? Probably an issue with the hookless rim? No

Any burping? No

Stan's yellow strip sufficient or is a rubber rim-strip required? Used Gorilla tape

Any comparision with Stan's BST rims at low pressure? I really love Stan's BST rims for this. Only have road tires on Black Flags. They hold air until the Stan's sealant dried out. Now run home brew.

Sealant bleeds through the sidewalls but no burping yet. Running a Bontrager XR1 Team Issue 1.9 rear and it burps a bit every (fast) ride.


----------



## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

About 1/3 of the energy in the fuel goes out the exhaust system (1/3 to the transmission and 1/3 to the radiator).

850oF (450oC) gas temp out of the engine under power (petrol - can be more for diesel).


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

My rims arrived today, after 6 months of lurking here and about a 3 week delivery. These are 50mm, wide, 700c, matte UD, destined for my disc-brake road bike. Planned build is 32H American Classic hubs with 9 & 10mm thru axles, DT ratchet QRs, Sapim black bladed spokes, DT ProLock black brass nipples, Ashima AI2 rotors, and cloth rim tape. On paper, I remove 9oz from my current wheelset (2004 WTB Laser Disc Lite/DT RR1.1/DT Comp spokes). I hope to have a bit of time this weekend to build them up. LB's site says 455g +/-15, each rim weighted 410g, possibly due to no brake track. Yes, I know this is a MTB forum, but I swing both ways. I'll post pics after I get them done, maybe. I bet no one's ever seen black carbon wheelsets before. I am waiting with bated breath for the rumored fat carbon rims from LB. If they are half as nice as these, I will snag a pair as soon as they are available.


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Stockli Boy said:


> My rims arrived today, after 6 months of lurking here and about a 3 week delivery. These are 50mm, wide, 700c, ....


50mm wide rims? Is this a fat bike? need pics to fully comprehend.



> This is Katrin from Light-Bicycle. Your rims have been shipped. The tracking number is...


 

Also got another one today:



> Congradulations, your OneUp sprocket is on its way as we speak.


 

Christmas is coming finally.


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## serious1 (Jan 11, 2013)

SJDude said:


> 50mm wide rims? Is this a fat bike? need pics to fully comprehend.


he probably means 50mm deep. think zipp aero wheels


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

SJDude said:


> 50mm wide rims? Is this a fat bike? need pics to comprehend


I would think they are 50mm deep 700c road or cx rims. They come in 38/50/60/88mm depths.

From my limited understanding of road wheels the depth gives you shorter spokes, higher strength and more aerodynamics. And some cx guys say the depth lets it go through mud easier and pick up less mud.


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## serious1 (Jan 11, 2013)

Thats great news. I've been thinking of doing the same swap with my rovals. Were yours the 19mm inner diameter ones?


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

SJDude said:


> 50mm wide rims? Is this a fat bike? need pics to fully comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The new thing in Aero road is wider rims. So 50mm deep, wide rims.


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

Yes, note the comma. "50mm, wide", not 50mm wide. The wide version of the road rims is 23mm. The really wide variant does not seem to be shipping yet, but I want 80mm for the fatty. Super wide rims on a disc brake road/ CX bike sound interesting but would look silly. Plus they won't fit in my fork.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

*iPlay carbon fat rims*

deleted


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Are those pictures and drawings of Light Bicycle rims or iPlay rims?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Looks like they have a hint of a bead seat to stop the dreaded burp ?



Fat Biker


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

dfiler said:


> Are those pictures and drawings of Light Bicycle rims or iPlay rims?


Those are our rims. L-B haven't these rims available now.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Still being an ******* and not buying an ad yet Peter.
Wish they'd ban your ass already


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Thanks for posting Peter!


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

What we really need is a separate thread for those iPlay rims. I blame the confusion on the title of this thread not containing the product or company name that it is about. While the thread title generically refers to "cheap chinese", it is actually about Light Bicycle carbon wheels/rims.

It would be awesome if a moderator could fix the titles of all these "chinese" threads that are actually intended to be about specific products or companies.


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

A little advice from the masses would be helpful. I have a pair of the LB Bead Hook-Less 29er rims. The 22mm inside width version. 32 hole and will be using Hope 40pt XD driver rear hub and Hope 15mm thru axle front hub. Using Sapim "Strong" spokes. Wondering about the nipples to use, Aluminum of Brass? I am 200lb and ride and brake aggressively. Gave up on Alum. nipples running Arch EX rims (brass are holding up well) but thinking with the added stiffness of the LB carbon rims I can get away with Alum. Thoughts? Ideas?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

You want an L-B discussion, start an L-B thread... Specifically L-B 30mm AM 29er hookless ERD whatever thread...

This thread has never been solely about L-B rims... It's always been a general discussion on exactly what the title states. People just like to go off on tangents about L-B cause they're the easiest to acquire and quickest to update their line with relevant products. 

I say keep it general... But if I here one more erd comment I 'll go ballistic...


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

mattsavage said:


> You want an L-B discussion, start an L-B thread... Specifically L-B 30mm AM 29er hookless ERD whatever thread...
> 
> This thread has never been solely about L-B rims... It's always been a general discussion on exactly what the title states. People just like to go off on tangents about L-B cause they're the easiest to acquire and quickest to update their line with relevant products.
> 
> I say keep it general... But if I here one more erd comment I 'll go ballistic...


Good points. It seems like 90+% of this thread is about LB products. But yeah, it has always included some of discussion on other brands.


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

mattsavage said:


> You want an L-B discussion, start an L-B thread... Specifically L-B 30mm AM 29er hookless ERD whatever thread...
> 
> This thread has never been solely about L-B rims... It's always been a general discussion on exactly what the title states. People just like to go off on tangents about L-B cause they're the easiest to acquire and quickest to update their line with relevant products.
> 
> I say keep it general... But if I here one more erd comment I 'll go ballistic...


When nothing to add but the above comments, I can only guess living in your Mom's basement drives people to that. Yell out for "meatloaf" I bet she"ll bring some for you and your friends.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Dambala said:


> When nothing to add but the above comments, I can only guess living in your Mom's basement drives people to that. Yell out for "meatloaf" I bet she"ll bring some for you and your friends.


What was wrong with the comment? This has never been a L_B thread, so what he said is perfectly fine.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

lol. His comment was contradicting me and I didn't even mind. In fact, I ended up agreei with him. 

Woah, did that actually just happen on the internet?


I for one can't wait for those iPlay rims to be available. If reasonably priced, I'll order immediately. Well, maybe. It is scary to buy from website that is a bit buggy and doesn't even list prices.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

LOL at the turns this thread takes. How bout starting an Iplay thread where "Peter" can post to his hearts content?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> Still being an ******* and not buying an ad yet Peter.
> Wish they'd ban your ass already


+1

Or offer 20% for mtbr's since you just splatter your products all over our forums without helping the system itself.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

20% of what, they don't post prices on their site so its kind of like hunting Unicorns.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Still being an ******* and not buying an ad yet Peter.
> Wish they'd ban your ass already


This is going to get interesting and payback is due.... All of these Chinese Companies grew because of this website and these Chinese Threads in particular. It all began when people started asking for Cheap Chinese Carbon Rims....now they are competing with each other ( some are even stealing the EXACT layout of the websites) and Peter thinks he is being smart by producing these rims because few people asked for them........little does he know just how small this market really is.....To add to it, this will NOT be a cheap rim because of the amount of materials, it will even cost a lot more to ship because the box is going to be 4x as large. None of these companies know anything about cycling ...zero, nada, zip....all they do is make the rims because people are asking for them. How many of you have frames that this will fit ?? Just like when LB started making road bike rims and they covered the brake track with a glossy finish.....it may seem logical to you, but these people don't ride and know nothing about riding....hell of a R&D.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

My gawd when will this fat bike nonsense go away.....


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

DeeZee said:


> My gawd when will this fat bike nonsense go away.....


Never. Try one, you might like it.


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Tincup69 said:


> Never. Try one, you might like it.


Just like crack eh? The first one is free...


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Tincup69 said:


> Never. Try one, you might like it.


If I lived somewhere where I HAD to ride one.....maybe


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

DeeZee said:


> My gawd when will this fat bike nonsense go away.....


No need for fat bikes disappearing from this world, but it would help the majority of forum users that search for 'regular' 29er carbon rims if the fat carbon rim talk takes place in the fatbike subforum.

I was not searching for stuff from a particular manufacturer, I came here because I searched a certain type of product and I am sure that goes for the majority.


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

JeroenK said:


> I was not searching for stuff from a particular manufacturer, I came here because I searched a certain type of product and I am sure that goes for the majority.


Agreed. I stopped into this forum for curiosity's sake several months ago and have found it to be pretty useful. I eventually bought some LB rims for my roadbike, and have kept an eye on the fatbike rim comments and fatbike forum page for wider rims as well. Maybe I missed the post, but I don't recollect any rules stating which direction the conversations must take and which categories must be excluded. Similarly, the title of the thread itself does not seem to narrow the discussion to one diameter or width dimension. There are plenty of detractors available for every single comment and post if you wait long enough, but there are also some people who actually have the mental acuity and intestinal fortitude to provide constructive commentary which moves the dialog forward. I have read some posts which have been totally counter to the opinions I have formed based on the discussions I have read, but I have not dismissed them out of hand because they disagree with my world view; I have instead given them some thought and evaluated my interpretation of the ideas.

Those who chime in with simple snark that does not contribute simply look like basement dwellers who are waiting for mom to call them up for dinner. Maybe they should go ride their bike (assuming it has a wheelset within the accepted dimensional parameters) instead of cluttering up the 200 pages herein with insipid one-liners that serve as more self-aggrandizement than actual contribution.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Just picked up my 30mm wide, 30mm deep tubular rims from the post office. The quality looks excellent, and they are a full 30mm wide, with a nice groove for the tubular seam. 

Will weigh and post pictures when I get home.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

JeroenK said:


> No need for fat bikes disappearing from this world, but it would help the majority of forum users that search for 'regular' 29er carbon rims if the fat carbon rim talk takes place in the fatbike subforum.
> 
> I was not searching for stuff from a particular manufacturer, I came here because I searched a certain type of product and I am sure that goes for the majority.


My blast was not focused on the riders that NEED fat bikes. Ride on!

I just see these knuckleheads riding those monstrosities on our local hard pack / dry fire roads.........not because they are needed........because they want to "be different" or want attention. As they say......right tool for the right job.


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> My blast was not focused on the riders that NEED fat bikes. Ride on!
> 
> I just see these knuckleheads riding those monstrosities on our local hard pack / dry fire roads.........not because they are needed........because they want to "be different" or want attention. As they say......right tool for the right job.


Or, built in excuse to be slow (or at least go slow), maybe?


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

I never understood why people get upset over what other people ride?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

DeeZee said:


> My blast was not focused on the riders that NEED fat bikes. Ride on!
> 
> I just see these knuckleheads riding those monstrosities on our local hard pack / dry fire roads.........not because they are needed........because they want to "be different" or want attention. As they say......right tool for the right job.


Sounds exactly like what a hiker would say about MTB's in general , not just a specific "type" of bike .
Same age old narrow minded arguement IMHO .

Fat Biker


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## bog (Jun 3, 2004)

Stockli Boy said:


> Agreed. I stopped into this forum for curiosity's sake several months ago and have found it to be pretty useful. I eventually bought some LB rims for my roadbike, and have kept an eye on the fatbike rim comments and fatbike forum page for wider rims as well. Maybe I missed the post, but I don't recollect any rules stating which direction the conversations must take and which categories must be excluded. Similarly, the title of the thread itself does not seem to narrow the discussion to one diameter or width dimension


Really?! The fact that you are posting in the "29er Components" forum means nothing to you? Please keep the fat bike pollution in the fat bike forum.


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

bog said:


> Really?! The fact that you are posting in the "29er Components" forum means nothing to you? Please keep the fat bike pollution in the fat bike forum.


Your mom called. Dinner is ready, then jammies and bedtime. Maybe you completely and utterly missed the point of my post, but she can explain it to you in small, easy-to-understand words.


----------



## bog (Jun 3, 2004)

Stockli Boy said:


> Your mom called. Dinner is ready, then jammies and bedtime. Maybe you completely and utterly missed the point of my post, but she can explain it to you in small, easy-to-understand words.


Nope, didn't miss the point at all. Obviously you did.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Omg. I haven't checked the forum in two days. Log in to see what I had missed and there's two pages of b!tchn. Can we please get back to posting about cheap Chinese carbon rims again?!


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## Stockli Boy (Feb 3, 2012)

Let's see: 29er rims are 622mm in diameter, same as road rims. This matters because the original 29er rims were road trekking rims. Thus, any 700c rim can be considered a 29er since that's the bead seat diameter of all 29er tires. 26" + 3.8" is 29.8", and any fatbike can fit a 29er tire, due to the nominally smaller diameter, so that means they qualify under your narrow world view.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Stockli Boy said:


> Let's see: 29er rims are 622mm in diameter, same as road rims. This matters because the original 29er rims were road trekking rims. Thus, any 700c rim can be considered a 29er since that's the bead seat diameter of all 29er tires. 26" + 3.8" is 29.8", and any fatbike can fit a 29er tire, due to the nominally smaller diameter, so that means they qualify under your narrow world view.


Stop, now, please.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

Stockli Boy said:


> Let's see: blah blah blah major thread derail


This thread isn't about fat bikes or fat bike components. The last few pages of this thread are non-sense. Move on.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Been following this thread for two years. I have finally order a set of the Light Bicycle wider 29 rims.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

DRILLINDK said:


> Been following this thread for two years. I have finally order a set of the Light Bicycle wider 29 rims.


With the bead hook?


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## Cbopleasanthill (Aug 21, 2013)

Can someone explain the difference between bead hook and hookless lb rims?


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Cbopleasanthill said:


> Can someone explain the difference between bead hook and hookless lb rims?


One has a bead hook and one doesn't.
:band:

Have you checked out their website?


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## razardica (Sep 16, 2010)

I dunno what the problem with Peter is.

He posted a product on here I didn't know existed and I was happy to purchase one (and did). It's good stuff and I'm satisfied with the transaction.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

DeeZee said:


> With the bead hook?


No, the clincher tubless compatible. I wanted the 30mm width. The bead hook rims are narrower.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Tincup69 said:


> Never. Try one, you might like it.


Srsly. What do you care what other people ride?

I tried it once and it was fun as heck

Tried it again, and not so much. But, the bike wasn't set up well adn the tires were bald, which didn't help matters. I'm willing to give it another go. Not sure I like it so much I wanna plunk down an extra $1500 to take up another parking spot in my garage, but I'm willing to entertain it.

Oh, and I'm in NorCal. If there is anywhere where you don't 'need' one, it's here. I guess we have beaches, but no snow.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

DRILLINDK said:


> No, the clincher tubless compatible. I wanted the 30mm width. The bead hook rims are narrower.


Ok I thought they we coming out with a wider rim without the bead hook.

Congrats you will love them!. My two sets have been great.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

DeeZee said:


> Ok I thought they we coming out with a wider rim without the bead hook.
> 
> Congrats you will love them!. My two sets have been great.


Lightbikes has the 35mm wide hookless available, just not on the website as a option yet. They are $180 each before the shipping and the paypal fee, a single rim will run about $230 shipped.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Mr. Doom said:


> Lightbikes has the 35mm wide hookless available, just not on the website as a option yet. They are $180 each before the shipping and the paypal fee, a single rim will run about $230 shipped.


Thanks!


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Mr. Doom said:


> Lightbikes has the 35mm wide hookless available, just not on the website as a option yet. They are $180 each before the shipping and the paypal fee, a single rim will run about $230 shipped.


Other than not having the bead hook, how is this better or whatever? Same width? Lighter? Stronger? And if stronger, how would one perceive this? I have two sets of the wide rims with the hooks and could not be happier particularly for the price.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

epiphreddy said:


> Other than not having the bead hook, how is this better or whatever? Same width? Lighter? Stronger? And if stronger, how would one perceive this? I have two sets of the wide rims with the hooks and could not be happier particularly for the price.


The bead hook may help keep high pressure tires from blowing off the rim but will not do much for MTB tires.

From one of Derby's posts.

_"If inflating under 65 psi and using TR bead centering rims, then bead hooks are useless. We will probably see rims without bead hooks become the standard for mountain bikes in a few years, and tire bead design will follow.

Having no bead hooks allows a wider inside rim width. And the rim edge can be thicker and more durable without adding more weight compared to a rim with bead hooks._"http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/bead-hook-less-rims-they-future-836810.html

For years I ran a heavy (675g) 36mm rim on my 26" AM bike and really noticed the added sidewall support to the tire from the wider rim over my 24mm XC wheels, especially when running lower pressure on bigger tires. I am sure the law of diminishing returns kicks in for any tire/rim combination at some point.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Mr. Doom said:


> Lightbikes has the 35mm wide hookless available, just not on the website as a option yet. They are $180 each before the shipping and the paypal fee, a single rim will run about $230 shipped.


There is a new kind of 29er hookless rim (35mm outer width & 25mm depth) with new process. It's also tubeless-compatible. The weight is 460+/-15g(DH version) 
Xiamen Light-Bicycle Carbon Fiber Parts Industry Co., Ltd.
NO.308.Xingqian Road, Jimei District, Xiamen City 361000, Fujian Province, China
Tel: 86-0592-6254228

Forty grams of epoxy and carbon bonus goodness!
With Alpine III spokes, those might last a bit!?
Must resist.....
Some body stop me or I swear I will...


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Got my selfie christmas presents yesterday and today. Rims are beautiful, really really beautiful. I've mailed envelopes heavier than both rims and the box they came in! 

350g and 357g! Unbelievably light. I was expecting 380-400g so no complaints. This one $340 purchase should drop over half a pound of rotational weight from my 26.5 Lb Long travel 29er. That's unreal value for the money. 

I defy you to name another place you could make that kind of weight savings and add stiffness and strength for any money (stomach staples aside). You could spend thousands on parts and accessories and never touch that kind of savings especially considering my starting point is M980 components.

Oh FWIW I got the One Up components 42 tooth sprocket in the mail yesterday. Merry christmas to me...


----------



## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

SJDude said:


> 350g and 357g! Unbelievably light. I was expecting 380-400g so no complaints. This one $340 purchase should drop over half a pound of rotational weight from my 26.5 Lb Long travel 29er. That's unreal value for the money.


Yep, I like that the wheelset I'm building (LB hookless XC rims, Sapim Lasers and Bitex hubs) cost $250.00 less than ONE ENVE rim.


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## Jon8500 (Aug 31, 2009)

Sweet just had the email telling me the wider 29er rims I ordered have been dispatched. Now just to decide what hubs to use.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Jon8500 said:


> Sweet just had the email telling me the wider 29er rims I ordered have been dispatched. Now just to decide what hubs to use.


When did you order yours? I ordered mine just before Xmas and I was told the other day mine are in sanding now. I'm hoping they ship before the Chinese New Year starts.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

SoCal-Rider said:


> When did you order yours? I ordered mine just before Xmas and I was told the other day mine are in sanding now. I'm hoping they ship before the Chinese New Year starts.


Aw crap, ordered a wheelset last week hoping to beat the chinese new year, looks like they won't make it. My company get their plastic molded in china, its unreal how everything shuts down and how slowly they come back on line.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

How long do they shut down for?


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

Kawigreen99 said:


> How long do they shut down for?


Not chinese so not sure how it works in Light bike's area but its 15 days long. Everyone goes home and comes back at the same time. The gridlock is supposedly worst than our thanksgiving/christmas travel.


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## Jon8500 (Aug 31, 2009)

SoCal-Rider said:


> When did you order yours? I ordered mine just before Xmas and I was told the other day mine are in sanding now. I'm hoping they ship before the Chinese New Year starts.


Sorry just got back online. I ordered mine on January the 7th. Just checked the tracking and my rims have left the sorting center.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

I ordered a set before Christmas. They shipped on 1-8. According to the tracking:

2014-01-08 11:34:00 XIAMEN Posting 
2014-01-08 12:29:13 XIAMEN Arrival at Sorting Center 
2014-01-08 13:46:30 XIAMEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
2014-01-08 21:24:59 XIAMEN Despatch from Sorting Center 

And that's the last update. I am wondering if the "posting" means that they are in transit from China to US?


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## Jon8500 (Aug 31, 2009)

Zachua said:


> I ordered a set before Christmas. They shipped on 1-8. According to the tracking:
> 
> 2014-01-08 11:34:00 XIAMEN Posting
> 2014-01-08 12:29:13 XIAMEN Arrival at Sorting Center
> ...


That's pretty much what I have.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

Jon8500 said:


> That's pretty much what I have.


in the email they said it normally takes 4-7 days for delivery. Today will have been 7 days if you don't count Jan 8th. Maybe I'll come how to a surprise. Now I just have to figure out what hubs to use. These will be used on my CX bike.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Chinese New Year starts January 31 st 2014 I think ?
I better hurry and order mine quick.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

PauLCa916 said:


> Chinese New Year starts January 31 st 2014 I think ?
> I better hurry and order mine quick.


Exactly. Still 2 weeks away from the start of the new year, lasting til the 14th of Feb.


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Hey so where are all y'all getting the ERD from? Page 18 has mention of it and if I remember correctly the ERD for the 21mm wide XC rims is supposedly 603, but didn't people say it was closer to 601 or something?


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

SandSpur said:


> Exactly. Still 2 weeks away from the start of the new year, lasting til the 14th of Feb.


Thats what I thought I need to get a job done hopefully this coming week my cash flow has been going in the wrong direction have my Chris King Hubs just need to pay for rims and spokes and labor.



SJDude said:


> Hey so where are all y'all getting the ERD from? Page 18 has mention of it and if I remember correctly the ERD for the 21mm wide XC rims is supposedly 603, but didn't people say it was closer to 601 or something?


 I'm having Lace Mine 29 do mine so he will figure mine out. 
If I were you I would wait till you get them from what i have read the ERD varies.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

At 180lbs, is 28H a good option for the hookless XC rims? XC/race use. Thinking about ordering this weekend


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

PauLCa916 said:


> Thats what I thought I need to get a job done hopefully this coming week my cash flow has been going in the wrong direction have my Chris King Hubs just need to pay for rims and spokes and labor.
> 
> I'm having Lace Mine 29 do mine so he will figure mine out.
> If I were you I would wait till you get them from what i have read the ERD varies.


How about some gawdang punctuation? I had to re-read that like 4 times to figure out what you were getting at.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

pimpbot said:


> How about some gawdang punctuation? I had to re-read that like 4 times to figure out what you were getting at.


Hmmm ?
That's what I thought. 
I need to get a job done hopefully this coming week my cash flow has been going in the wrong direction. 
I have my Chris King Hubs just need to pay for rims and spokes and labor.

I'm having Lace Mine 29 do mine so he will figure mine out. 
If I were you I would wait till you get them from what i have read the ERD varies.

Better ?
HTH


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## Jon8500 (Aug 31, 2009)

My rims are now in UK customs. Did not expect it to be that quick!


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

Jon8500 said:


> My rims are now in UK customs.


Hope they make it through quickly. My rims made it to the US in a day or two less than that estimated by LB, but as they arrived at US Customs in mid-Dec., they spent 1-2 weeks there.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

PauLCa916 said:


> Hmmm ?
> That's what I thought.
> I need to get a job done hopefully this coming week(period). My cash flow has been going in the wrong direction.
> I have my Chris King Hubs(period). I just need to pay for rims, (and removed) spokes and labor.
> ...


Now, that's better.

Sorry to get all grammar nazi on you. I know it's a doooshy thing to do (on my part). I'm sick of having to re-read stuff a few times to figure it out. Just putting periods in at the ends of sentences would go a long way towards making things flow.


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

*Recieved two wheelsets XX1*

Ordered 30 mm and 27 mm hookless rims with Novatec D771/D772 hubs.Both set up 15 mm front 12-142 rear.Weights were 800 grams for both rear wheels which surprised me.Thought the 27s would be lighter than the 30s.Fronts are 30mm weighed 685 grams. 27mm weighed 675 grams. Wheels look awesome and aired right up tubeless with racing ralphs.


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## Andy17 (Sep 18, 2011)

Which company? Are you riding these all mountian or xc? Pics would be nice.. 
Thanks


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

It sounds like my rim order placed on January 12th will not be shipped prior to the Chinese New Year Holiday (Jan 31-Feb 15th). Anyway, I order the new process wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher (tubeless-compatible) with a special request that both rims be 400g rather than the standard 390g. They will notify me when rims have been shipped and provide a tracking number. It sounds like I will have to pick up the rims from the post office and pay taxes, "We will declare the value at USD60 for 2pcs rims and write "sample only" & "bike rims" on the delivery document.
Then you do not pay much for the tax. Is it OK for you? If it is not OK, please let me know what value you like us to declare on the delivery document."

I'm considering going with brass nipples to negate the corrosion some users have experienced between aluminum nipples and carbon rims.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

So I had my first ride on these things. Must say I'm pretty impressed!

I had two of the "wider am" rims built up locally with hope pro II, DT Comp spokes, and brass nipples. I was told they were some of the easiest rims the mechanic had ever built. In fact he was so impressed he ordered a couple for himself. 

Completed weight was 1680g. I added one layer of specialized tubeless tape and some valve stems. Schwalbe tires sealed up easily with the compressor. No "pop" sound like most other rims though. 

I got about 30miles on them over the weekend through some pretty technical and rocky trails. Factoring in some of the inevitable placebo effect I still think I could feel a pretty significant difference in acceleration and cornering stiffness coming off the Flow's (not ex) that I was running before. I'm not sure if it was my imagination but I also felt like they dampened vibration very well. The trail I rode was littered with small bumps and rough surfaces and It seemed like they were eating a little bit of that up. I rode a couple 2.5ft drops, and some nasty rock gardens and they held up just fine. 

Very happy so far, we'll see how they hold up.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Oh yeah, pics.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

I've been trying to keep track of what everyone has been using for spokes and their tubeless set-up for the Light-Bicycle rims. Hope this helps:

Spokes: 

Sapim Laser spokes
Sapim CX-Ray
DT Swiss Supercomp spokes
DT Aerolite




Tubeless Set-up:

Bontrager Rhythm symmetrical strip with a Stan's valve
Gorilla Tape



Brass Nipples:
DS Brass Nipples?
Pillar Brass Nipples?


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

Finally have the LB Bead hook-less 22mm inside rims built up. Sapim Laser spokes, Hex head Alum nipples, Hope hubs. 1589 grams. Tubeless set up is Stans wide tape and valve and they mounted up flawlessly. One ride and I was VERY impressed (shocked is more accurate) with the added stiffness over an Arch EX build with the same hubs, spokes with brass nipples. Sorry for the photo orientation and poor quality.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Another 12hr solo race in the books on my wider AM LB rims with hooks. The race was mostly XC but had three 50 yard sections of just exposed solid rock. The sections looked like a bunch of broken concrete but none of it was loose. You could easily tip toe your way through but most of us faster riders where just picking the least gnarly line and doing our best to stay light and float over it at speed. Luckily the rocks where more shaped like super size stairs so you could avoid any pointy rock/rim strikes but at the speeds we were going it felt like my carbon frame might snap at any second. I always looked down at my tires to see if they were strait each lap and nothing every happened. I've gone from worrying about my wheels to worrying about my carbon HT frame.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

Dambala said:


> Finally have the LB Bead hook-less 22mm inside rims built up. Sapim Laser spokes, Hex head Alum nipples, Hope hubs. 1589 grams. Tubeless set up is Stans wide tape and valve and they mounted up flawlessly. One ride and I was VERY impressed (shocked is more accurate) with the added stiffness over an Arch EX build with the same hubs, spokes with brass nipples. Sorry for the photo orientation and poor quality.


Sounds like I'll notice a huge difference over my crest wheelset


----------



## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

DRILLINDK said:


> I've been trying to keep track of what everyone has been using for spokes and their tubeless set-up for the Light-Bicycle rims. Hope this helps:
> 
> Spokes:
> 
> ...


Can anyone give me the cliffnotes version of the advantages and disadvantages of the different spokes?

Also, what is everyone building the tension of the rims to? TIA!


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

DRILLINDK said:


> Can anyone give me the cliffnotes version of the advantages and disadvantages of the different spokes?


The disadvantage of Rays and Aerolites vs. Revos is the price. There are no advantages unless you value the look of bladed spokes; same weight and performance at a huge cost premium.
S.Comps are slightly thicker, which means slightly stiffer, no stronger, again at a large premium.
You can probably guess what my go to spoke is.



DRILLINDK said:


> Also, what is everyone building the tension of the rims to? TIA!


No reason to go over 110-120kgf max.


----------



## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

Kawigreen99 said:


> Sounds like I'll notice a huge difference over my crest wheelset


I think you will be shocked at the difference compared to Crest rims. I am about 205lbs and originally went with the Arch EX which is considerably stiffer then the Crest. So, from a Crest to this rim will be a huge difference. Bonus, the rims are 15 grams lighter each then a Crest and a little wider. Time will tell how reliable they will be.


----------



## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The Crest wheels are an insignificant amount lighter, but I could really feel the difference in steering precision due to the massive amount stiffer the carbon wheels are.


----------



## DaveSi677 (Apr 3, 2011)

where are you guys ordering these from?


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

DaveSi677 said:


> where are you guys ordering these from?


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

How about another facepalm for the founders of Light-Bicycle?

Many people don't even realize that it is a company name. In the age of google and search term uniqueness, it would be hard to come up with a worse brand name. Light-Bicycle, love the rims, hate the name.


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## DaveSi677 (Apr 3, 2011)

pimpbot said:


> View attachment 863936


sorry if LB or Light-Bicycle isn't your typical name to search for...

Still a simple answer would of been enough... I guess you proved the theory of there isn't no such thing as a stupid question but only a stupid answer!

Have a great day!


----------



## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

Anyone try the bontrager rim strips in the hookless 22mm inside width rims yet?


----------



## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

Dambala said:


> I think you will be shocked at the difference compared to Crest rims. I am about 205lbs and originally went with the Arch EX which is considerably stiffer then the Crest. So, from a Crest to this rim will be a huge difference. Bonus, the rims are 15 grams lighter each then a Crest and a little wider. Time will tell how reliable they will be.





yourdaguy said:


> The Crest wheels are an insignificant amount lighter, but I could really feel the difference in steering precision due to the massive amount stiffer the carbon wheels are.


I can't wait to get them built up... the difference should be substantial at 190lbs(although closer to 180 by spring... hopefully!).


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## Thomas (Feb 19, 2004)

Hi
Im going to be building a wheelset with LB hookless rims.
Hubs are gonna be the "new" Hope 40t, spokes Sapim D-light and alu nipples.
About the rims i cant decide on the 22mm or the 30mm inside width?

My riding is xc/trail nothing wild, and no drops over 1-2ft on occasion.
Tires will be no bigger than Hans Dampf 2,35, and mostly a 2,25" Michelin Wildgripper.
Frame is Transition Trans Am with a 120mm fork.

Im thinking the 22mm inside rim, will be plenty strong for me.
Is there a reason for me, to go 30mm inside rim for my riding??

Best regards
Thomas


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

DaveSi677 said:


> . I guess you proved the theory of there isn't no such thing as a stupid question but only a stupid answer!
> 
> Have a great day!


Actually the way I heard the quote was: there's no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people... 

Just Kidding

getting my hoops built up as we speak. Excited. The tech asked if I wanted brass or Al nipples and said that the brass didn't seize with the locktight he was building with as badly. Never heard of that before but I've always built with linseed oil...went Aluminum anyway.


----------



## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

SJDude said:


> Actually the way I heard the quote was: there's no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people...
> 
> Just Kidding
> 
> getting my hoops built up as we speak. Excited. The tech asked if I wanted brass or Al nipples and said that the brass didn't seize with the locktight he was building with as badly. Never heard of that before but I've always built with linseed oil...went Aluminum anyway.


Loctite on the nipples? Other experienced wheelbuilders on this site would tell you to run away from that builder immediately...


----------



## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

DaveSi677 said:


> sorry if LB or Light-Bicycle isn't your typical name to search for...
> 
> Still a simple answer would of been enough... I guess you proved the theory of there isn't no such thing as a stupid question but only a stupid answer!
> 
> Have a great day!


51 pages on this thread, LB is mentioned on 50 of them. Just sayin'.


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

I dont have time to read 203 pages about these rims. Are the Light Bicycle hooked or hookless 29r rims going to hold up? I'm considering a set to go on my Dirty Harry hardtail to be used for XC racing, I'm 170 geared up. I'm a long time fan of American Classic and my other option is their 29r race wheel which weighs about the same. I know the AC are reliable and AC stands behind their rims, if I blow one out I can send it to them for a reasonable crash replacement. I know that tires stay on AC rims tubeless. Are there any issues with the LB rims cracking or tires blowing off?


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

craigstr said:


> I dont have time to read 203 pages about these rims. Are the Light Bicycle hooked or hookless 29r rims going to hold up? I'm considering a set to go on my Dirty Harry hardtail to be used for XC racing, I'm 170 geared up. I'm a long time fan of American Classic and my other option is their 29r race wheel which weighs about the same. I know the AC are reliable and AC stands behind their rims, if I blow one out I can send it to them for a reasonable crash replacement. I know that tires stay on AC rims tubeless. Are there any issues with the LB rims cracking or tires blowing off?


The wider American Classic and hookless from lightbikes are both new products. The hooked carbon have a good track IMO and should be no more prone to burping than Stans rims, which I have had good luck with.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Mr. Doom said:


> The wider American Classic and hookless from lightbikes are both new products. The hooked carbon have a good track IMO and should be no more prone to burping than Stans rims, which I have had good luck with.


This hookless thing is just plain stupid and wrong on so many fronts......First of all Specialized did this as a cost savings measure, not an upgrade for performance. Second, when the rim loses the bead hook, the only thing keeping the tire on is the air pressure, lose the air pressure and the tire will burp or roll off. Those of you that are running higher pressures need not worry. Third, when you have a bead hook, the tire AND the bead hook share the load and work together. You are not stressing the tire alone. Fourth, by losing the bead hook you are losing lateral stiffness. The thickness of the bead accomplishes this, just like how an angle extrusion works....

To answer the ridiculous statement that cars don't, have bead hooks.....well a car tire also has much stiffer sidewall and beads. Racing Off Road trucks do in fact have bead locks.......so stupid analogy. Don't think that every new development is a good one, some are just plain stupid.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

YaMon said:


> This hookless thing is just plain stupid and wrong on so many fronts......First of all Specialized did this as a cost savings measure, not an upgrade for performance. Second, when the rim loses the bead hook, the only thing keeping the tire on is the air pressure, lose the air pressure and the tire will burp or roll off. Those of you that are running higher pressures need not worry. Third, when you have a bead hook, the tire AND the bead hook share the load and work together. You are not stressing the tire alone. Fourth, by losing the bead hook you are losing lateral stiffness. The thickness of the bead accomplishes this, just like how an angle extrusion works....
> 
> To answer the ridiculous statement that cars don't, have bead hooks.....well a car tire also has much stiffer sidewall and beads. Racing Off Road trucks do in fact have bead locks.......so stupid analogy. Don't think that every new development is a good one, some are just plain stupid.


And just a disclaimer, YaMon enters every chinese part thread and posts anything to keep people from buying them.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

SandSpur said:


> And just a disclaimer, YaMon enters every chinese part thread and posts anything to keep people from buying them.


Keep to the subject, I thought we are discussing Bead Hooks.....Which Specialized came out with as a cost saving measure.....where did the Chinese argument come from in the post above ?? Keep drinking the Kool Aid...


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

YaMon said:


> Keep to the subject, I thought we are discussing Bead Hooks.....Which Specialized came out with as a cost saving measure.....where did the Chinese argument come from in the post above ?? Keep drinking the Kool Aid...


I will add that I rode a dead flat Ikon on a LB wider rim with bead hook and bonty strip for several miles and the tire stayed seated.

I have not read a single report of anyone riding out a flat on the hookless.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> I will add that I rode a dead flat Ikon on a LB wider rim with bead hook and bonty strip for several miles and the tire stayed seated.
> 
> I have not read a single report of anyone riding out a flat on the hookless.


Or how many of us have ever rode out with a tire losing air ???? I think it is a ridiculous idea.....and people that are buying them don't have a clue as to what the bead does. Why put all that stress on the tire alone instead of sharing it between the rim ??


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

It is far more likely for a tire to burp by rolling inwards toward the center of the rim. My own Bontrager rim strips, Ust rims, AmClass and Derby rims address this by having a small "bead lock" lip on the rim. The Lightbike/ Stans rims and the millions of car and motorcycle wheels do not. I have not heard of a epidemic of burps from these products and have not managed to burp my Arch/Flows running 20-25lbs


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Mr. Doom said:


> It is far more likely for a tire to burp by rolling inwards toward the center of the rim. My own Bontrager rim strips, Ust rims, AmClass and Derby rims address this by having a small "bead lock" lip on the rim. The Lightbike/ Stans rims and the millions of car and motorcycle wheels do not. I have not heard of a epidemic of burps from these products and have not managed to burp my Arch/Flows running 20-25lbs


As long as you and everyone else that bought into this hookless thing realize that Specialized did this for cost savings and not performance related reasons......Seems like every time there is a design change, everyone thinks it is an improvement.....not in this case.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Mr. Doom said:


> I have not heard of a epidemic of burps from these products and have not managed to burp my Arch/Flows running 20-25lbs


This is like saying.....I don't believe in Life Insurance because I have never had a situation where I needed it.....


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

YaMon, have you ever ridden hookless rims yourself? Any first hand experience of hookless rims burping?

If so, please enlighten us with backup of your claims from of your own experience.

If not, please leave...


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

craigstr said:


> I dont have time to read 203 pages about these rims. Are the Light Bicycle hooked or hookless 29r rims going to hold up? I'm considering a set to go on my Dirty Harry hardtail to be used for XC racing, I'm 170 geared up. I'm a long time fan of American Classic and my other option is their 29r race wheel which weighs about the same. I know the AC are reliable and AC stands behind their rims, if I blow one out I can send it to them for a reasonable crash replacement. I know that tires stay on AC rims tubeless. Are there any issues with the LB rims cracking or tires blowing off?


If you like AC, have good customer experiences with AC, and the weight is the same, why bother switching?


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

YaMon said:


> This hookless thing is just plain stupid and wrong on so many fronts......Second, when the rim loses the bead hook, the only thing keeping the tire on is the air pressure, lose the air pressure and the tire will burp or roll off. Those of you that are running higher pressures need not worry. Third, when you have a bead hook, the tire AND the bead hook share the load and work together. You are not stressing the tire alone. Fourth, by losing the bead hook you are losing lateral stiffness. The thickness of the bead accomplishes this, just like how an angle extrusion works.....


Exactly what load can the bead hook share when it is outside the bead? Due to tire pressure there is a radial load and sideways load on the bead - higher pressure = higher loads (contrary to what you said). I assume the beads on any decent tire are nearly impossible to stretch - and certainly not enough to get over the top of the rim wall, and probably not even enough to engage the bead hook - so the tire bead takes care of the radial load. I did have a Nokian tire literally blow off a Stan's rim about 10 years ago and never bought a Nokian again - point is, if the bead is weak, the hook isn't going to keep the tire on - that's a blow-off. A burp is when the bead moves to the center of the rim and has nothing to do with the bead hook. The rim wall must entirely handle the sideways load and for example Derby hookless rims in fact have thicker rim wall at the base than bead hook rims, therefore are stiffer and stronger. A u-shape structural extrusion does not have a bead hook because material there would not efficiently carry stress.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

JeroenK said:


> YaMon, have you ever ridden hookless rims yourself? Any first hand experience of hookless rims burping?
> 
> If so, please enlighten us with backup of your claims from of your own experience.
> 
> If not, please leave...


+ 1,000
We need the beating a dead horse image on this site for sure.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Motivated said:


> Exactly what load can the bead hook share when it is outside the bead? Due to tire pressure there is a radial load and sideways load on the bead - higher pressure = higher loads (contrary to what you said). I assume the beads on any decent tire are nearly impossible to stretch - and certainly not enough to get over the top of the rim wall, and probably not even enough to engage the bead hook - so the tire bead takes care of the radial load. I did have a Nokian tire literally blow off a Stan's rim about 10 years ago and never bought a Nokian again - point is, if the bead is weak, the hook isn't going to keep the tire on - that's a blow-off. A burp is when the bead moves to the center of the rim and has nothing to do with the bead hook. The rim wall must entirely handle the sideways load and for example Derby hookless rims in fact have thicker rim wall at the base than bead hook rims, therefore are stiffer and stronger. A u-shape structural extrusion does not have a bead hook because material there would not efficiently carry stress.


Funny how the internet makes everyone an expert....so let me put it in a way that is irrefutable and put you in a position that will make you look stupid to argue...

1. Specialized has said in no undeniable terms that they did this to reduce the cost. Not for any improvements to the design.

2. There are no major rim manufacturers out there with all their engineers and manufacturing abilities that has adopted this hookless rim. Can you ask yourself why ?? or do you profess to be more knowledgeable than Enve, Easton, Reynolds, I9, Sram, and the ones I don't even know about.

Well??


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> 2. There are no major rim manufacturers out there with all their engineers and manufacturing abilities that has adopted this hookless rim. Can you ask yourself why ??


They are adhering to a 20(+)-year-old standard?


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

Seriously, does anyone think that specialized have just reinvented the wheel?

They are easier to manufacture, and are a poofteenth lighter - there may be some performance loss, but it's unlikely there's a performance gain. For certain, in his world, you can market just about any idea with success - people will believe any hocus pocus


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

YaMon said:


> Funny how the internet makes everyone an expert....so let me put it in a way that is irrefutable and put you in a position that will make you look stupid to argue...
> 
> 1. Specialized has said in no undeniable terms that they did this to reduce the cost. Not for any improvements to the design.
> 
> ...


Are you going to answer my direct question Mr. Internet Expert?


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

craigstr said:


> I dont have time to read 203 pages about these rims. Are the Light Bicycle hooked or hookless 29r rims going to hold up? I'm considering a set to go on my Dirty Harry hardtail to be used for XC racing, I'm 170 geared up. I'm a long time fan of American Classic and my other option is their 29r race wheel which weighs about the same. I know the AC are reliable and AC stands behind their rims, if I blow one out I can send it to them for a reasonable crash replacement. I know that tires stay on AC rims tubeless. Are there any issues with the LB rims cracking or tires blowing off?


I have a set on two different bikes. I weigh about 200Lbs geared up. The wheels are as stiff as I have ever ridden and they are as true now as they were 5 months ago when I first started riding. I ride in a very rocky area and pound them, do some drops, etc. and they rock solid and durable. Best $400 I ever spent on a bike. I have the wide LB with the bead hook.

Not sure what all the hoopla is about the no bead hook and how anyone would ever know if it is "Stronger". So what if it is, you would never be able to tell the difference between the two and to me it makes no sense.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

pharmaboy said:


> Seriously, does anyone think that specialized have just reinvented the wheel?
> 
> They are easier to manufacture, and are a poofteenth lighter - there may be some performance loss, but it's unlikely there's a performance gain. For certain, in his world, you can market just about any idea with success - people will believe any hocus pocus


So you don't believe that a carbon sidewall of a rim that is equal thickness isn't stronger than a carbon side wall that has to get narrower at a point to create the hook?

They didn't reinvent wheel, Hookless design was around a long time ago. I'f I'm not mistaken they added the hook years ago because of poor manufacturing tolerances on bike tires.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> They are adhering to a 20(+)-year-old standard?


Sooo, your answer is that they stick with it because, they don't do R&D, they are lazy and stick with old technology ??? If they saw an advantage, they would jump at it so fast it would make your head spin......

I can tell you one thing.....if I was tearing down Porcupine Rim Trail or Downeville, I sure would want that bead there.....Then again maybe most of the fuys that are posting here don't really ride that hard. I take a lot of what is posted here with a ton of salt unless it is from a recognized rider ....like a Vanderham, McCaul, Bourdon, etc...Hell for a minute there I thought David C. was some expert till he posted a 15 year old GT with LB rims on it. Now how hard do you really think he pushes that thing ????

You can all sit there and try to convince yourselves.....iot is a dumb idea and there are no advantages....actually is a disadvantage if you really push your bike hard. If you ride XC or on the beach, I guess it will hold.......


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

pharmaboy said:


> They are easier to manufacture, and are a poofteenth lighter - there may be some performance loss, but it's unlikely there's a performance gain. For certain, in his world, you can market just about any idea with success - people will believe any hocus pocus


Well Golly Gee Wizz.....You are offering a company to decrease their cost of manufacturing, make it lighter and yet, 7 of 8 of the manufacturers have not adopted this hookless design.......read between the lines people......there are no advantages. These companies err on the side of safety.....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

JeroenK said:


> Are you going to answer my direct question Mr. Internet Expert?


No, it's a stupid question...


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> So you don't believe that a carbon sidewall of a rim that is equal thickness isn't stronger than a carbon side wall that has to get narrower at a point to create the hook?
> 
> They didn't reinvent wheel, Hookless design was around a long time ago. I'f I'm not mistaken they added the hook years ago because of poor manufacturing tolerances on bike tires.


I'll take a stab at this one.....first a car and truck tire is not made the same way, ever notice how stiff the sidewall is. You bike tire goes under a lot more stress than a car tire. If you want to make a meaningful comparison, you would compare it to an off road vehicle......which DOES have a bead lock......


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

I would love to see more rim profiles like the new AC Wide Lightning has. Short rim walls that allow the tire to inflate wider with a natural profile. Small rim hooks for that extra measure of, "well, if this hook does anything good then at least I have one." And finally the most important feature IMHO, bead hooks which keep the bead set and prevent it from slipping into the middle of the rim and burping. (Similar to Derby's)

I have a set it the AC's as well as the Chinese 35mm titanium bead carbon's and dollar for dollar right now I would probably go with the AC's for ease of tubeless setup and the bead seat hook, while having the same weight and cost of the carbons but based in the US. But that's just me, to each his own.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

craigstr said:


> I dont have time to read 203 pages about these rims. Are the Light Bicycle hooked or hookless 29r rims going to hold up? I'm considering a set to go on my Dirty Harry hardtail to be used for XC racing, I'm 170 geared up. I'm a long time fan of American Classic and my other option is their 29r race wheel which weighs about the same. I know the AC are reliable and AC stands behind their rims, if I blow one out I can send it to them for a reasonable crash replacement. I know that tires stay on AC rims tubeless. Are there any issues with the LB rims cracking or tires blowing off?


All of your questions are answered in the 200 pages in this thread.

I read the entire thread, then placed my order with LB. Thanks to all those who've been posting so much good info.


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Just an outsiders viewpoint. But the head hook is not needed in my opinion. 

Does it help keep the bead in place?? Yes when you lose pressure. It keeps the bead there. 
But for 99% of the time when you have adequate pressure the bead hook isn't doing anything. 

I think the beadhook design comes from when tire manufacturing process had pretty low QC. 

It's still pretty bad but it's all about finding a good tire to match your rim. 

It's a crummy deal but it's reality. 

I think the industry will adopt the beadless design. Just like the rims growing in width. I bet we see depths growing too. Deeper rims mean shorter and stronger spokes.


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> So you don't believe that a carbon sidewall of a rim that is equal thickness isn't stronger than a carbon side wall that has to get narrower at a point to create the hook?
> 
> They didn't reinvent wheel, Hookless design was around a long time ago. I'f I'm not mistaken they added the hook years ago because of poor manufacturing tolerances on bike tires.


I think your question assumes something. A bead hook can either be made by thinning the wall or thickening the rest. Now if you decide the rim cannot be heavier than 340g for marketing reasons, then perhaps that's a good way to go.

The bike industry generally us shocking for selling bullshit - some is more obvious than others, but a cynical mind is IMO a better option in bike related stuff where proof of claims is never forthcoming .


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

Ufdah said:


> I would love to see more rim profiles like the new AC Wide Lightning has. Short rim walls that allow the tire to inflate wider with a natural profile. Small rim hooks for that extra measure of, "well, if this hook does anything good then at least I have one." And finally the most important feature IMHO, bead hooks which keep the bead set and prevent it from slipping into the middle of the rim and burping. (Similar to Derby's)
> 
> I have a set it the AC's as well as the Chinese 35mm titanium bead carbon's and dollar for dollar right now I would probably go with the AC's for ease of tubeless setup and the bead seat hook, while having the same weight and cost of the carbons but based in the US. But that's just me, to each his own.
> 
> View attachment 864858


I'm guessing that's a made up profile? Just looking at it, there's no well to speak of, so the rim diameter would make for a very tight tyre fit, or a very loose tyre ( wow, remind you of a brand of rim.... . )


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

For those who are new to the thread. I've been trying to keep track of what everyone has been using to build their set-up for the Light-Bicycle rims. Please let me know if I missed anything an I'll edit the post to provide more accurate and up to date information. Hope this helps!

I've read the entire thread about two years ago and have been following it ever since. The most popular rim has been the wider 29er rim clincher (tubeless compatible) avaiable from Light Bicycle (carbon mountain bike rim-mountain bike rim,mountain rims,mtb rim,mtb rims,carbon mtb rim Light-Bicycle). There was a old process and the current "new process" rims that they have offered in this rim version. They claim from their website that the "new process" rims are stronger than the old process rims. There have been a handful of riders reporting rim fractures. However, no catastrophic failures have been reported. Most failures have been as a result of running ~<20psi tire pressure and striking a large object (mostly rocks the size of a curb or larger) at high speeds causing the rim to bottom out and strike the object.

Riders have used the following materials to build their wheelsets:

Spokes:

Sapim Laser spokes
Sapim CX-Ray
DT Swiss Supercomp spokes
DT Aerolite
DT Revolutions

Tubeless Set-up:

Bontrager Rhythm symmetrical strip with a Stan's valve
Stans Wide Tape (1 layer) with Stan's Valve
Gorilla Tape with Stan's Valve

Brass Nipples (to reduce the possibility of corrosion between aluminum nipples and carbon rim):
DT Brass Nipples
Pillar Brass Nipples

Aluminum Nipples:
Sapim Hex Head Alum. Nipples


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

tires are very inconsistent between brands.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

2 sets built with DT Revolutions & DT brass nipples. 

1 set is the wider 29er rims (23mm ID), the other set the 29er XC rims (21mm ID).


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

I may have missed it but does LB offer a 29er rim in the 35mm range. Love my P35s and at 1800g not too bad but lighter is nice too.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

GTR-33 said:


> I may have missed it but does LB offer a 29er rim in the 35mm range. Love my P35s and at 1800g not too bad but lighter is nice too.


They have one with a 30mm internal dim. They may offer a sale at Chinese New Year(Jan 31st)


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

pharmaboy said:


> I'm guessing that's a made up profile? Just looking at it, there's no well to speak of, so the rim diameter would make for a very tight tyre fit, or a very loose tyre ( wow, remind you of a brand of rim.... . )


This is the AC Wide Lightning. It would be a little stronger possibly as hokless.


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> The disadvantage of Rays and Aerolites vs. Revos is the price. There are no advantages unless you value the look of bladed spokes...


Bladed spokes are easier to tighten in that one can - literally - see if/when a spoke starts to twist. Also, you can prevent that by holding the bladed section at the very end (I use a slotted piece of hardwood). Of course this doesn't mean anything to the really-experienced wheelbuilders, all the more, if that tiny advantage at least doubles the price/spoke... True true.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

leichtreiter said:


> Bladed spokes are easier to tighten in that one can - literally - see if/when a spoke starts to twist. Also, you can prevent that by holding the bladed section at the very end (I use a slotted piece of hardwood). Of course this doesn't mean anything to the really-experienced wheelbuilders, all the more, if that tiny advantage at least doubles the price/spoke... True true.


Yep, that thing that make it "easy" for a novice to true a wheel is a pain for someone who does it a lot. You have to hold them most of the time so that they don't turn/twist because it looks pretty dumb when bladed spokes are twisted but the wheel is true. While holding them may not seem like a big deal, it's annoying at the very least. On some wheels it's nearly impossible to work a special tool and hold a spoke that has nothing binding on either end (straight pull bladed). I don't think anyone that has bladed spokes does their own wheel maintenance.


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

DRILLINDK said:


> For those who are new to the thread. I've been trying to keep track of what everyone has been using to build their set-up for the Light-Bicycle rims. Please let me know if I missed anything an I'll edit the post to provide more accurate and up to date information. Hope this helps!
> 
> I've read the entire thread about two years ago and have been following it ever since. The most popular rim has been the wider 29er rim clincher (tubeless compatible) avaiable from Light Bicycle (carbon mountain bike rim-mountain bike rim,mountain rims,mtb rim,mtb rims,carbon mtb rim Light-Bicycle). There was a old process and the current "new process" rims that they have offered in this rim version. They claim from their website that the "new process" rims are stronger than the old process rims. There have been a handful of riders reporting rim fractures. However, no catastrophic failures have been reported. Most failures have been as a result of running ~<20psi tire pressure and striking a large object (mostly rocks the size of a curb or larger) at high speeds causing the rim to bottom out and strike the object.
> 
> ...


I built up a pair of the "new" Bead Hookless LB Rims (22mm inside).

Hope Pro 2 Hubs
Sapim Laser Spokes
Sapim Hex Head Alum. Nipples
Stans Wide Tape (1 layer) and Stans Valve. By far quickest easiest tubeless set-up in my experience, that includes Stans rims. So far Maxxis, Specialized and Tioga tires have all worked perfectly.

With 4 rocky/rough 20+ mile rides on them they have been excellent.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

GTR-33 said:


> Yep, that thing that make it "easy" for a novice to true a wheel is a pain for someone who does it a lot. You have to hold them most of the time so that they don't turn/twist because it looks pretty dumb when bladed spokes are twisted but the wheel is true. While holding them may not seem like a big deal, it's annoying at the very least. On some wheels it's nearly impossible to work a special tool and hold a spoke that has nothing binding on either end (straight pull bladed). I don't think anyone that has bladed spokes does their own wheel maintenance.


I have a set of Enve XC clinchers, a set of CX tubulars and a set of XC tubulars all built with bladed spokes...by me. Only time I've had to perform spoke maintenance was when a stick went through my Enve rear wheel, and I snapped two spokes. Bladed spokes are more expensive, but as someone who doesn't build wheels all the time, its nice to be able to a) see and b) control spoke windup.


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## JYB (Nov 12, 2011)

You can see the spokes "wind up" when building a wheel if you use little "tape flags" on the spokes as you get towards final tension. I bet that this is far easier and quicker than using any of the tools to prevent bladed spokes from twisting. I definitely do not think that visualization of spoke "wind up" is any sort of selling point for bladed spokes. To each his own, I guess.


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## Mutantclover (Oct 1, 2006)

GTR-33 said:


> Yep, that thing that make it "easy" for a novice to true a wheel is a pain for someone who does it a lot. You have to hold them most of the time so that they don't turn/twist because it looks pretty dumb when bladed spokes are twisted but the wheel is true. While holding them may not seem like a big deal, it's annoying at the very least. On some wheels it's nearly impossible to work a special tool and hold a spoke that has nothing binding on either end (straight pull bladed). I don't think anyone that has bladed spokes does their own wheel maintenance.


I've never built with bladed spokes but I assumed you did not have to hold them (so long as they are J-bend or otherwise prevented from rotating at the hub). When making adjustments why can't you just turn the nipple more to account for the wind-up, and then turn it back until the windup is gone? For example, if you want a half turn adjustment and the spoke winds up a half turn, you make one full turn and then reverse a half turn. I have always done this anyway with round spokes (since bladed or not, you don't want your spokes wound-up) but then I'm no pro wheelbuilder. Seems like bladed spokes, again, would just make it easier to ensure no wind up.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

Dambala said:


> I built up a pair of the "new" Bead Hookless LB Rims (22mm inside).
> 
> Hope Pro 2 Hubs
> Sapim Laser Spokes
> ...


What do they weigh?


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I have about 60miles on mine and loving them so far. I've gone through some nasty rock gardens and a few 3+ ft drops to flat and they've held up great. I've been running them on my Yelli Screamy hardtail. They seem stiffer laterally than the flows they replaced and also seem "take the edge off" chop on the trail. The reduced weight is noticeable spinning these up to speed and the matte non-branded look is quite nice. 

I just ordered rims and had them laced up locally. The shop owner laced them up and was extremely impressed with the overall quality and noted how easy they were to build. He was so impressed in fact that he ordered two sets of rims for himself!

Rims: 30mm "Wider" 29er rims (hook type)
Hubs: Hope Pro II (new 40t version)
DT Swiss Comp spokes and brass nipples

Total Weight (no valve stems or tape) 1680g

I set them up with one layer of specialized tubeless tape which is pretty much stan's tape except blue and some stan's nipples. Schwalbe tires mounted up easy with a compressor and have yet to burp or leak air.

I'll post up some pics shortly.


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

Kawigreen99 said:


> What do they weigh?


1589 grams with tape and valve


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

You want to hold bladed spokes when building your wheel since they are weaker than round spokes when twisted.



Mutantclover said:


> I've never built with bladed spokes but I assumed you did not have to hold them (so long as they are J-bend or otherwise prevented from rotating at the hub). When making adjustments why can't you just turn the nipple more to account for the wind-up, and then turn it back until the windup is gone? For example, if you want a half turn adjustment and the spoke winds up a half turn, you make one full turn and then reverse a half turn. I have always done this anyway with round spokes (since bladed or not, you don't want your spokes wound-up) but then I'm no pro wheelbuilder. Seems like bladed spokes, again, would just make it easier to ensure no wind up.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

Dambala said:


> 1589 grams with tape and valve


Thanks. I think I'm doing the same build, but with brass nips


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## alias33 (Sep 22, 2008)

i',dt swiss super comp or revolution spokes? I'm building up my 29'er 35 mm rims and want a nice stiff and light wheel with my hope evo 2 hubs


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

alias33 said:


> i',dt swiss super comp or revolution spokes? I'm building up my 29'er 35 mm rims and want a nice stiff and light wheel with my hope evo 2 hubs


I define "light" 29er wheels as sub 1500g. That's not achievable with Hope hubs. But, I think with revos you'll be close to 1600g. Check out the DT spoke length calculator - it also calculates weight.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

alias33 said:


> i',dt swiss super comp or revolution spokes? I'm building up my 29'er 35 mm rims and want a nice stiff and light wheel with my hope evo 2 hubs


Spoke thickness doesn't affect wheel stiffness. The difference is effectively just weight and cost. The only strength difference is if when something like a log gets jambed into your spokes. Otherwise, butted are not more susceptible to breaking. To overly simplify, this is because the thinner middle of the spoke takes the abuse rather than fatiguing the j-bend.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Motivated said:


> I define "light" 29er wheels as sub 1500g. That's not achievable with Hope hubs. But, I think with revos you'll be close to 1600g. Check out the DT spoke length calculator - it also calculates weight.


I have to agree with this. My LB Wheelset is 1470 grams built 32H 3cross. I read reviews of carbon wheelsets with 28h spoke counts that weigh more and cost twice as much. My wife's wheelset that I built before I knew about this thread was Arch Rims, AC hubs, CX ray spokes. 1650 grams.


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

Dambala said:


> 1589 grams with tape and valve


I would have liked to use lighter hubs (I had a couple of issues with AC hubs) and could not justify the extra $$ for I9 with only a very small weight savings ,yes I do know how nice the I9 hubs are.

Probably should have researched hubs a little more but I am happy with the new 40pt engagement Hope rear hub


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

For around the price of Hopes, what can you really get that is lighter and as durable?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Lots that are lighter, few that are more durable.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Kawigreen99 said:


> For around the price of Hopes, what can you really get that is lighter and as durable?


DT Swiss 350 are the same weight as Hopes, maybe 10g lighter, and MORE durable in my experience. Roughly the same price, depending where you're purchasing.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Kawigreen99 said:


> For around the price of Hopes, what can you really get that is lighter and as durable?


I really have never considered Hope hubs light. Blingy yes, loud yes, durability I have heard some serious complaints. But also a lot of praise. As another poster said I would consider a lower end DT Swiss before a rear hope hub. As far as AC hubs go I have never had an issue. I have a 13 year old hub on my wife's bike that had never been serviced and still works great. I have even used an AC hub for my bike I use for the ski hill. But for where I ride regularly I have never had a need for a high POE hub as they say ymmv.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

spunkmtb said:


> I really have never considered Hope hubs light. Blingy yes, loud yes, durability I have heard some serious complaints. But also a lot of praise. As another poster said I would consider a lower end DT Swiss before a rear hope hub.


The 350 is a great hub, no doubt, but weighs the same and is lower POE than the Hope.
IME Hope durability issues are rare.


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## Oaktree (Dec 9, 2009)

after breaking a flow rim (not a Flow EX and not the rim's fault) I ordered up some LB, "new process", 29er, beadhookless, inner width 22mm, published weight 365g rims.

I found lot's of people here with positive comments on wheel weight and stiffness with carbon so I did some measurements with the RIMS only. This doesn't translate directly to overall wheel stiffness, and I'm not sure how representative a lateral and then radial static force is of actual forces during mtn biking, but it is at least a quantitative data point that I didn't easily find elsewhere (searched, but didn't read entire thread here...).

I weighed the rims using a gram scale and I measured the deflection by hanging an approximate 16 lb weight (see images)

I'll list the data in the following order: rim type, measured weight, radial deflection, lateral deflection,

DATA:
FLOW, 535g, .070inch, .348inch
LB, 363g, .048inch, .421inch

In conclusion, my LB rims are 32% lighter, 21% less lateraly stiff, 31% more radially stiff. And I can't wait to lace them up!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the measurement needs to be done with the rims laced up. Doing it this way means almost nothing.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the measurement needs to be done with the rims laced up. Doing it this way means almost nothing.


You're not the bearer of bad news... you are the bearer or incorrect information.
How the rim itself responds to loads relative to other rims tested in the same way absolutely has meaning.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

But not nearly as much as the testing of the system as a whole.


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the measurement needs to be done with the rims laced up. Doing it this way means almost nothing.


Stronger/stiffer wheel starts with stronger/stiffer rim. For example, a Flow builds up stronger/stiffer then a Crest.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

I expected the LB rims to be stiffer radially (which it was), but also expected it to be even stiffer laterally. I'm surprised that it shows more lateral deflection than a Flow rim. It sure doesn't feel that way when being ridden or when building/tensioning the rim. Anybody else surprised by that?!?


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## tiflow_21 (Oct 27, 2005)

albertdc said:


> I expected the LB rims to be stiffer radially (which it was), but also expected it to be even stiffer laterally. I'm surprised that it shows more lateral deflection than a Flow rim. It sure doesn't feel that way when being ridden or when building/tensioning the rim. Anybody else surprised by that?!?


I'm slightly surprised, but at the same time I'd be curious how it fares compared to an arch or crest since they're closer in weight to the light bicycle rim. I went from crests to the LB rims and noticed a significant increase in stiffness and much less frequent need for truing.


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

tiflow_21 said:


> I'm slightly surprised, but at the same time I'd be curious how it fares compared to an arch or crest since they're closer in weight to the light bicycle rim. I went from crests to the LB rims and noticed a significant increase in stiffness and much less frequent need for truing.


:madman::madman: I was thinking of the Arch rim when I posted my response. Not until I read your post did it sink in that he was comparing to the big beefy Flow rim. :eekster:
Agreed, that it would be cool to see that test with an Arch rim. I felt a noticeable improvement in handling going from Arch rims to LB rims - would be nice to see the data to support the "feels stiffer" description.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

albertdc said:


> :madman::madman: I was thinking of the Arch rim when I posted my response. Not until I read your post did it sink in that he was comparing to the big beefy Flow rim. :eekster:
> Agreed, that it would be cool to see that test with an Arch rim. I felt a noticeable improvement in handling going from Arch rims to LB rims - would be nice to see the data to support the "feels stiffer" description.


The LB wider "hookbead" rims are about 70g lighter than Stan's Arch. I have two wheelsets using both rims and the LB rims feel noticeably stiffer. Not scientific but there you go! ;-)


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Interesting comparison. There's a video on Stan's website comparing the Stans Valour (not yet out) wheels to some from enve claiming that too much radial stiffness is a bad thing with respect to ride quality. They claim a weight estimate of 1230g for the 29er wheels whenever they come out! Pretty impressive numbers...

Do all yo'all think lateral stiffness is the be all and end all with carbon hoops or is stans idea of a vertically compliant wheel a factor. I could see it on a hard tail but I have 140 mm of travel so I'll take stiff.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Oaktree said:


> after breaking a flow rim (not a Flow EX and not the rim's fault) I ordered up some LB, "new process", 29er, beadhookless, inner width 22mm, published weight 365g rims.
> 
> I found lot's of people here with positive comments on wheel weight and stiffness with carbon so I did some measurements with the RIMS only. This doesn't translate directly to overall wheel stiffness, and I'm not sure how representative a lateral and then radial static force is of actual forces during mtn biking, but it is at least a quantitative data point that I didn't easily find elsewhere (searched, but didn't read entire thread here...).
> 
> ...


Cool test and simple enough for a lot of people to do....maybe we can come up with some standards to test other rims.....

I do agree that this test is better than a built up wheel because it will isolate the results to the rim only, not introducing other variables.....type of spoke, tension of spoke, height of hub flange, etc.....

Couple other observations:

1. You should conduct the test on a steel top table bolted to the ground to prevent any movement or compression of the wood top.

2. when you are doing the lateral test, you need to hold it down at the 1/2 way point and also hold it down right at the edge of the table. The rim can actually create a bow if you hold down the back and give bad results..


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Interesting! I hereby nominate you to similarly test all rims on the market. 

How do you feel about the meaningfulness of the lateral test. When built up as a complete wheel, it seems that lateral stiffness is tied to radial stiffness. The deformation during the lateral test would likely be different. Any engineers out there that can comment on how or if the forces are transferred differently when laced to a hub?

It could be placebo, but when I first got my wider light-bicycle 29er rims, they seemed way stiffer than all the aluminum rims I've ever ridden. The placebo effect is powerful so that is possible. My guess though is that the carbon rims really are stiffer.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

JeroenK said:


> YaMon, have you ever ridden hookless rims yourself? Any first hand experience of hookless rims burping?
> 
> If so, please enlighten us with backup of your claims from of your own experience.
> 
> If not, please leave...


And why are you qualified to be answering this question? Here is a response from an engineer with Maxxis tires:

Yes. Another thing to consider is that the aramid bead of a typical folding tire or tubeless / tubeless ready tire is elastic. A larger volume tire will see a higher hoop stress, and subsequently more bead stretch, at the same inflation pressure compared to a smaller volume tire. More bead stretch can lead to rim failure as the bead moves up and away from the bead seat shelf. This puts more leverage on the rim, and can lead to rim failure. (Pretty cool to see in slow motion.)

Let's put this nonsense to sleep....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

dfiler said:


> Interesting! I hereby nominate you to similarly test all rims on the market.
> 
> How do you feel about the meaningfulness of the lateral test. When built up as a complete wheel, it seems that lateral stiffness is tied to radial stiffness. The deformation during the lateral test would likely be different.


Yes, you are correct...it would be different, but the difference would be the same if you laced all the rims identically.....same hubs, spokes, tension, etc....that will not be possible because there are so many combinations. This test would isolate the strength of the rim ONLY.....a very meaningful test when compared to other rims tested the same identical way. We don't have to have one person test all the rims as long as we hold to the same rule set, the dial gauge is cheap ( I already have one coming )....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

SJDude said:


> Interesting comparison. There's a video on Stan's website comparing the Stans Valour (not yet out) wheels to some from enve claiming that too much radial stiffness is a bad thing with respect to ride quality. They claim a weight estimate of 1230g for the 29er wheels whenever they come out! Pretty impressive numbers...
> 
> Do all yo'all think lateral stiffness is the be all and end all with carbon hoops or is stans idea of a vertically compliant wheel a factor. I could see it on a hard tail but I have 140 mm of travel so I'll take stiff.


Well I certainly don't know how everyone feels about this, but riding a stiff wheel transforms the handling of the bike in a POSITIVE way. I had a friend of mine that weights 250+ pounds try out a set of carbon rims and he came back saying that he did not realize that he was adapting his riding to compensate for the Stans Flow Ex flexing. He realized he was actually over/under correcting when turning into corners.....not with the carbon hoops, they go where you point. One thing I can say is that tire pressure becomes a lot more critical with carbon hoops.....


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## Oaktree (Dec 9, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback!

If we ignore braking and accelerating then the load imparted by the ground is always either radial (vertical) or radial and lateral (combined forces when cornering). My gut feeling is that the vertical component is typically larger during cross country and trail riding. So, the vertical stiffness would dominate the "stiffness feel" of the wheel. In other words, I won't be surprised if these are generally as stiff as my Flows.

Also, regarding Stan's claim I would tend to agree with SJDude that the vertical compliance may improve ride comfort but I'll add that intentionally allowing the hoops to flex and therefore no longer be round sounds like an added power "transmission loss" (however minute) - let the tires and suspension do their job. I'd still love a pair of Stan's in carbon, I'm sure they'll be sick.

If someone finds Industry standards and gets me rims I'll volunteer to repeat the tests and publish results.

Yes, YaMon - I started on a steel top but moved to wood so as not to harm my new beauties! But, I did test both samples on the same table, with the same fixturing, the same (halfway) overhang and weight, so I did my best to mitigate any deviations.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Oaktree said:


> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> If we ignore braking and accelerating then the load imparted by the ground is always either radial (vertical) or radial and lateral (combined forces when cornering). My gut feeling is that the vertical component is typically larger during cross country and trail riding. So, the vertical stiffness would dominate the "stiffness feel" of the wheel. In other words, I won't be surprised if these are generally as stiff as my Flows.
> 
> ...


I will check to see if I have any leftover 1/4" lexan sheets for you to screw down to your table to protect the rims.....


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## Andy17 (Sep 18, 2011)

Just thinking, maybe stans have found the lateral stiffness to be less and are covering all bases and expecting someone to test them hence the language in the video about less stiff. It is what Oaktree found. 
Very interesting thread of late. How much do you weigh Oaktree? I too am intrested in a set of these LB rims and trying to decide on the ones you have or the HD version of it with a 50g weight penalty. Or even the 35mm hookless. Any thoughts after your testing?
I'm a good 200lb ready to ride.


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

YaMon said:


> And why are you qualified to be answering this question? Here is a response from an engineer with Maxxis tires:


I thought you left. Too bad. The hunger for attention came back? This is my last post feeding it.

"Qualified" to ask you a quesion? It's not me arguing all kind of things based on theory. That's you. Obviously I can draw that conclusion, because you have not mentioned your own experience with hookless rims. Why on earth would we even care about theory if little problems exist in the real world? I really do not know why you'd like to warn people for something and frankly, I do not want to know. It's like the solution if you are against gay marriage: don't marry a gay person. Same goes here: don't buy them! That'll teach them...

If you are that motivated to prove hookless rims do not work, you better start advocating them. More buyers = more information about possible issues, as multiple pages about Schwalbe tires blowing off Notubes rims will show. Real world stories about a bead hook not able to prevent bead stretch.

I am going to find out myself if hookless rims work, like others have done before me. If they do not, I'll be honest about it.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Andy17 said:


> Just thinking, maybe stans have found the lateral stiffness to be less and are covering all bases and expecting someone to test them hence the language in the video about less stiff. It is what Oaktree found.
> Very interesting thread of late. How much do you weigh Oaktree? I too am intrested in a set of these LB rims and trying to decide on the ones you have or the HD version of it with a 50g weight penalty. Or even the 35mm hookless. Any thoughts after your testing?
> I'm a good 200lb ready to ride.


Personally I would stay away from any lip less design. Here is a posting from Maxxis engineer B Holwell on that subect:

Yes. Another thing to consider is that the aramid bead of a typical folding tire or tubeless / tubeless ready tire is elastic. A larger volume tire will see a higher hoop stress, and subsequently more bead stretch, at the same inflation pressure compared to a smaller volume tire. More bead stretch can lead to rim failure as the bead moves up and away from the bead seat shelf. This puts more leverage on the rim, and can lead to rim failure. (Pretty cool to see in slow motion.)


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

YaMon said:


> Yes, you are correct...it would be different, but the difference would be the same if you laced all the rims identically.....same hubs, spokes, tension, etc....that will not be possible because there are so many combinations. This test would isolate the strength of the rim ONLY.....a very meaningful test when compared to other rims tested the same identical way. We don't have to have one person test all the rims as long as we hold to the same rule set, the dial gauge is cheap ( I already have one coming )....


Certainly lacing differences can be eliminated and rims tested alone. The question is, does it mean anything? Or more specifically, does it mean anything to us riders?

For example, monocoque structures use their skin to strengthen an otherwise weak frame. In such a system, you could test the strength of one frame design vs another without the skin being involved. However this test might be misleading. Once the skin is added, a monocoque structure based upon a weak frame design might end up being stronger than a a one with a strong frame design.

It could be that a laced wheel's lateral stiffness is significantly impacted by the radial stiffness. I really don't know.

Don't let me dissuade you from conducting the test though. Thanks for performing them! At the same time, it would be interesting to know if the results are representative of a fully built wheel.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

JeroenK said:


> I thought you left. Too bad. The hunger for attention came back? This is my last post feeding it.
> 
> "Qualified" to ask you a quesion? It's not me arguing all kind of things based on theory. That's you. Obviously I can draw that conclusion, because you have not mentioned your own experience with hookless rims. Why on earth would we even care about theory if little problems exist in the real world? I really do not know why you'd like to warn people for something and frankly, I do not want to know. It's like the solution if you are against gay marriage: don't marry a gay person. Same goes here: don't buy them! That'll teach them...
> 
> ...


Blind leading the Blind.......It's all about the Natural Order......eventually all the stupid people will die off.......

I can play that game too and I am good at it, start with a bad attitude and you get the same response....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

dfiler said:


> Certainly lacing differences can be eliminated and rims tested alone. The question is, does it mean anything? Or more specifically, does it mean anything to us riders?
> 
> For example, monocoque structures use their skin to strengthen an otherwise weak frame. In such a system, you could test the strength of one frame design vs another without the skin being involved. However this test might be misleading. Once the skin is added, a monocoque structure based upon a weak frame design might end up being stronger than a a one with a strong frame design.
> 
> It could be that a laced wheel's lateral stiffness is significantly impacted by the radial stiffness. I really don't know. Don't let me dissuade you from conducting the test though. Thanks for performing them! At the same time, it would be interesting to know if the results are representative of a fully built wheel.


Good argument...however we are not testing an exoskeleton where the strength is in the skin.....think of it as a truss frame where the actual components building it are being stressed. Do you think a frame made with 1x2 's will be as strong as a frame made with 2x4's??


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

On rim stiffness, wouldn't any minor vertical rim flex be completely lost as noise when compared to the movement you're going to get from 2.x" knobby tires running at relatively low pressure on a relatively soft dirt surface? Add in bike suspension, and it's hard for me to understand how it would be noticeable in the real world. Then again, I'm happy on my Crest rims, so I may not be sensitive at all to wheel flex.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

TechniKal said:


> On rim stiffness, wouldn't any minor vertical rim flex be completely lost as noise when compared to the movement you're going to get from 2.x" knobby tires running at relatively low pressure on a relatively soft dirt surface? Add in bike suspension, and it's hard for me to understand how it would be noticeable in the real world. Then again, I'm happy on my Crest rims, so I may not be sensitive at all to wheel flex.


You need to go out and demo a set of carbon wheels and see what you are missing...


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

YaMon said:


> Good argument...however we are not testing an exoskeleton where the strength is in the skin.....think of it as a truss frame where the actual components building it are being stressed. Do you think a frame made with 1x2 's will be as strong as a frame made with 2x4's??


It really isn't an argument so much as a question. To get a definitive answer, it would likely take an engineer who's educated in force diagrams, statics, etc.

The 1x2 vs 2x4 wall analogy doesn't seem accurate to me. A better analogy would be that of a structure built with engineered lumber joists vs a structure built with solid wood joists.

Engineered lumber looks like wooden I-beams and typically consist of an oriented strand board element and two natural wood elements. Individually these pieces are weak and the beams/joists are indeed weaker laterally. However, once assembled into engineered lumber joists and then assembled into a structure, that final structure is much stronger in every direction than one made of normal wood. That is an example of where a individual structural element can be weaker in one direction but the final structure actually stronger.

Whether that is the case with hub/spoke/rim system, I don't know. But it seems possible. Testing the lateral stiffness of only a rim might be the equivalent of testing the lateral stiffness of engineered vs normal lumber. The results would be correct and reproducible, however they might not be indicative of which builds a stronger assembled structure.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

+1 dfiled


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

dfiler said:


> It really isn't an argument so much as a question. To get a definitive answer, it would likely take an engineer who's educated in force diagrams, statics, etc.
> 
> The 1x2 vs 2x4 wall analogy doesn't seem accurate to me. A better analogy would be that of a structure built with engineered lumber joists vs a structure built with solid wood joists.
> 
> ...


Good argument, but I still feel that the parts add up to the sum.......start with a weak component vs. a stronger one and the results will be different. All I am saying is build a structure using weaker components and compare it to the exactly same structure built with stronger components and see what the results are .......will that 2" x 1/4" screw build a weaker structure that if it were bolted together with a 2" x 3/8" lag bolt ??? I don't know, but it sure does seem like it would, otherwise we would use 2" drywall screws....


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## sq225917 (Dec 28, 2008)

Interesting as it is, looking at rim only deflection doesn't mean dick. The spokes tie a rim down by triangulation, so a rim with less lateral strength but mega high radial strength supports the lower lateral deflection characteristic by its enhanced radial characteristic. Any lateral deflection is counteracted by the spokes, and they do that through transferring the force from lateral to radial and vice versa. Pick a rim that can take a high spoke load and build with good high tensile spokes, that'll give you the best wheel.

The rim bead hook is there to keep the tyre on, it only helps to keep the inner bead on during a cornering move. When the tyre is forced ove rby cornering loads the outside of the tyre is kept in place by air pressure (hence why burping happens at extreme lean angles/forces). If the sidewall of the rim is high enough it makes no difference if you have a hook or not, your tyre ain't coming off the inside.

What a hook does give you though is a slight geometric increase in the effective OD of the rim, it equates to the same thing in terms of tyre retention as increasing the diameter of the rim by about 1mm. So as free lunches go its more of a snack than a feast.

Assuming a similar volume of material a rim without a hook will be stronger than a hooked rim. Not that the strength in this area contributes to any part of how the wheel handles, but it does allow for marginal weight saving if you remove it, or maybe you use that extra smidge of material to extend the vertical height of the sidewall to help keep those ''tricky'' kevlar beads on.

One assumes LB have increased the OD of the rim ever so slightly to compensate for the lack of bead hook. In their favour is the fact that shallower tyre-lean-angles (over the rim) will occur due to the increased internal rim width. On balance rolling a tyre off the wider AM hookless rims doesn't strike me as being any more likely than it would be with a narrower hooked bead design.

..and that's why I bought a set...




There are a few guys on here who are really trying to spread FUD about bike products sourced outside of the usual commercial channels. One can only guess at their motivation!


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

Oaktree said:


> after breaking a flow rim (not a Flow EX and not the rim's fault) I ordered up some LB, "new process", 29er, beadhookless, inner width 22mm, published weight 365g rims.
> 
> I found lot's of people here with positive comments on wheel weight and stiffness with carbon so I did some measurements with the RIMS only. This doesn't translate directly to overall wheel stiffness, and I'm not sure how representative a lateral and then radial static force is of actual forces during mtn biking, but it is at least a quantitative data point that I didn't easily find elsewhere (searched, but didn't read entire thread here...).
> 
> ...


This makes me feel a tiny bit better about building a heavy Flow up, and I saved $170 on the wheel. I am fairly sure the 35mm carbon rims are going to be much more radially stiff than the Flows but the law of diminishing returns has probably kicked in at that point.

As far as wheels being too stiff radially you would think it would be a huge issue with Road cyclist and their 120psi 23mm tires on deep rims, the whole "laterally stiff vertically compliant" marketing shenanigans may be at work here.

This is a response from Bike Rumors comments section about the issue.

"I can not believe Stan's would make such bogus claims as the rim "absorbing radial vibrations" Not only does this violate physics and everything known about how bicycle wheels works"...
" Anyone that thinks so can read numerous peer reviewed scientific papers that show radial wheel stiffness for ALL bike wheels (even those made to be flexy which apparently these are) are still way too stiff radially for any human being to be able to tell the difference."


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

YaMon said:


> Good argument, but I still feel that the parts add up to the sum.......start with a weak component vs. a stronger one and the results will be different. All I am saying is build a structure using weaker components and compare it to the exactly same structure built with stronger components and see what the results are .......will that 2" x 1/4" screw build a weaker structure that if it were bolted together with a 2" x 3/8" lag bolt ??? I don't know, but it sure does seem like it would, otherwise we would use 2" drywall screws....


Individual elements have differing strengths when measuring flex in different directions. It could be that a rim that is radially stiffer but laterally more flexible then another rim, is actually laterally stiffer once built into a wheel. The question is, when built into a wheel, does radial rim stiffness translate into lateral stiffness? That is an important detail because your tests indicate that one rim is stronger radially and the other stronger laterally.

It is also necessary to consider that when under weighted riding conditions, the spokes between the hub and the ground are not under tension and basically don't exist when calculating a force diagram. It is only the spokes under tensile load that contribute anything to the wheel's strength at any given time. (Edit: That is a horrible over simplification on my part. It is merely intended to show the complexity of trying to scientifically quantify wheel strength from a theoretical perspective.)

It really is quite complicated and a bit above my level of education. There's tensile strength vs compressive strength to consider. With spokes and hub added, it could be that compressive load is replaced by tensile load. Or some such mumbo jumbo.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

The number of spokes is also at play.


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## Oaktree (Dec 9, 2009)

I get on my bike at 215 lbs and had built up my hardtail to be a reliable do-all bike (wide bars, dropper post, rock ring instead of large chainring, and the 2.4" tires with Stan's beefy Flow rims). Now with a new long travel 29er in my sites, I'll have the luxury of making the hardtail a pure cross country rig. Therefore when given the choice of LB rims, I took a chance getting the lighter ones. 

LB makes available their test results. I find their transparency refreshing. Their static load tests shows that for those extra 50 grams you get a huge 58% bump in strength (385 lbs to 609 lbs) by going with the 35mm hookless. Check with them for results on the heavier version of the "27W-24D" (22mm inner width) that I got.

But, given that I sat on my Flow rim and bounced my weight and broke what I consider to be a very durable rim, then sat on my new LB and bounced (a super tiny little bounce with my fingers crossed) and it went no where near the 1.9" deflection at breakage that they publish, I'm confidence in the radial strength against static loads. If it breaks under CC riding it'll be some other deficiency which the heavier rim will likely share. That being said I don't expect to have anything but smiles with these rims. Now, if my new AM fully needs new rims one day I'd probably go for the heavier version, but for my riding the weight came first.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> Cool test and simple enough for a lot of people to do....maybe we can come up with some standards to test other rims.....


Even if not scientifically bulletproof, a standardized test would allow at least comparison of different rims, which is what I think most people are after anyway.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Even if not scientifically bulletproof, a standardized test would allow at least comparison of different rims, which is what I think most people are after anyway.


It isn't just a question of being scientifically "bulletproof". The numbers might be so misleading that people would have a worse understanding of a rim's strength or stiffness.

True, people would love to have an easily comparable numbers to assess wheel strength. The question is, are these numbers valid for that use? If radial stiffness translates into lateral stiffness once built as a wheel, the answer is likely no, the lateral stiffness of the rim alone is not indicative of the lateral stiffness of a wheel built with that rim.

These things aren't always intuitive. For example, I have read that butted spokes make a more durable wheel than straight spokes. This is despite the butted spokes being thinner and easier to bend. That is a different phenomenon than the force transfer being discussed here. However it shows that focusing on an isolated statistic without understanding the entire system, can lead to a conclusion that is the exact opposite of reality.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> It isn't just a question of being scientifically "bulletproof". The numbers might be so misleading that people would have a worse understanding of a rim's strength or stiffness.


By this same argument, why measure the stiffness of a complete wheel, an isolated statistic? the wheel will always be put into duty as part of a bike, the complete system, so maybe the only measurements that mean anything and can't be misinterpreted should be of complete bikes. Think of the variables!!! :eekster:
Counter intuitive phenomena aren't limited to just the components of a wheel.
Stiff wheels can cause more frame rub than flexy ones.


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## Oaktree (Dec 9, 2009)

funny, I considered taking deflection measurements by doing the whole wheel because I'm using the same spoke type and re-using the hub. But, realized that the variation in spoke tension between the used wheel and the new one I build (without tensiometer) could produce mis-leading results. Anyhow, like I said, I won't be surprised if they ride a little "stiffer"...and in a good way (sorry Stan).


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> By this same argument, why measure the stiffness of a complete wheel, an isolated statistic? the wheel will always be put into duty as part of a bike, the complete system, so maybe the only measurements that mean anything and can't be misinterpreted should be of complete bikes. Think of the variables!!! :eekster:
> Counter intuitive phenomena aren't limited to just the components of a wheel.
> Stiff wheels can cause more frame rub than flexy ones.


There is some truth to that but the effect is likely insignificant. Hopefully it is obvious that lacing a rim to a hub significantly effects stiffness. But really, I don't think you're actually trying to argue that point. 

[Edit: to clarify, I was theorizing that radial stiffness of a rim contributes greatly to lateral stiffness of a whole wheel]



Oaktree said:


> funny, I considered taking deflection measurements by doing the whole wheel because I'm using the same spoke type and re-using the hub. But, realized that the variation in spoke tension between the used wheel and the new one I build (without tensiometer) could produce mis-leading results. Anyhow, like I said, I won't be surprised if they ride a little "stiffer"...and in a good way (sorry Stan).


Be sure to report back with your opinion! My prediction is that you will perceive them as stiffer laterally despite being less laterally stiff when measured as just a rim.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> My prediction is that you will perceive them as stiffer laterally despite being less laterally stiff when measured as just a rim.


Perception is the ultimate and unarguable variable. Introduce that and you've got to grow any measurement out the window.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Since we have already detailed this thread........

The Stan's video is hilarious. I really don't see why Stan's wouldn't source some Carbon hoops for their wheelsets.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

DeeZee said:


> I really don't see why Stan's wouldn't source some Carbon hoops for their wheelsets.


They have


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## Jon8500 (Aug 31, 2009)

My 29er wider rims arrived today 384 and 385 grams each. Quality looks good, Now to choose hubs any reason not to to get american classics? I'm using these wheels mainly for racing.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Jon8500 said:


> My 29er wider rims arrived today 384 and 385 grams each. Quality looks good, Now to choose hubs any reason not to to get american classics? I'm using these wheels mainly for racing.


I think AmClassic hubs are excellent - light, tall flanges, reasonable price, can build wheels with 1 spoke length, very solid engagement, roll super smooth, easy to service and swap axle standards and freehub standards. There's nothing that beats them on those criteria. Only negatives are relatively low POE (to which I say don't stop pedaling), no centerlock option, no colors Some people post about reliability, but I've ridden the new ones through a winter of salted roads and found pristine internals at spring. I've shopped around and nearly bought Tune King/Kong, but decided it wasn't worth the $ and ?'s to save ~30 grams.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I love my AM hubs. The one size spoke just seals the deal.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

Just got mine in today, they look great. Once I get some time I'll take them to the LBS and report back on the build.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> I love my AM hubs. The one size spoke just seals the deal.


This feature is the one differentiator am hubs have and it saves money when buying spokes.

I used a donor set of older AC 350 hubs and they have been trouble free with no servicing needed over the last two years.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I meant AC hubs-American Classic.


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

What is everyone using to set these rims up tubeless. My wheelbuilder wanted to know specifically what bontrager rim strips and/or stans tape???


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

DRILLINDK said:


> What is everyone using to set these rims up tubeless. My wheelbuilder wanted to know specifically what bontrager rim strips and/or stans tape???


My LB bead hook-less rims converted tubeless perfectly with 1 round of wide Stan's tape and valve.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

+1^^^^^^^ No problems with over 1000+ miles between two wheel sets.


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## 4212darren (Nov 15, 2005)

DRILLINDK said:


> What is everyone using to set these rims up tubeless. My wheelbuilder wanted to know specifically what bontrager rim strips and/or stans tape???


I went with the 21mm Stans tape and valve. My Racing Ralph was a little tougher than usual to get on the rim but I was able to air it up with a hand pump.
23 mm tape would be a better fit.


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Anyone out there order the wheels painted? Or with stickers???


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## offroadcyclist (Feb 22, 2004)

I've decided to sell the 29" 35mm outside width LB rims that are set to be delivered to me this week. I'm having a hard to justifying the cost. That said, I'm not willing to take a loss on the deal. I would rather build them up and ride them. Ad here-
2 New Light-Bicycle (LB) 29" 35mm Carbon Fiber Rims - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories
If you were thinking about ordering a set, but didn't want to wait, especially with the Chinese new year delays, this would be a chance to get a set very quickly.
If you're interested, shoot me an email at offroadcyclist at gmail dot com


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

offroadcyclist said:


> this would be a chance to get a set very quickly.


Not to be a dick but this is your only selling point. 475 for a pair is more than they cost from LB direct. I can understand that you don't want to lose money but shipping from China isn't $150.. Why should anyone pay you $75 more than buying them direct?


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## offroadcyclist (Feb 22, 2004)

I paid light bicycle $425, after paypal fees and insured shipping I thought $475 would cover it. I'm not trying to make a profit


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

It says right on LB website that they're 398 something, including paypal fees and shipping. Good Luck with that.


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## offroadcyclist (Feb 22, 2004)

Sold


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## ToneLOcust (Jan 31, 2013)

Hello I am new to the thread and tried to read through all of it, but its just too long. I just recevied my LB rims and want to know if others have built their wheels with nipple washers. I want to make sure my LBS has all the info before I give them my rims and hubs.

Thanks, to anyone that replies.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Funny I was reading up on wheel building and I ran across washers for the first time.
With carbon I wonder if it's a good idea sounds like it will make it stronger.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I think one guy did washers. Don't think it is any better and adds weight and cost.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Weight and cost. 
Two things I can live with out if it's not going to benefit me in any way.


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## moonluv810 (Jul 10, 2013)

Finally got my 29" 30mm wide wheels delivered last week and set them up tubeless over the weekend.

I ordered the set with with Novatec 771/881 hubs and Pillar aero spokes. Don't have a fancy and accurate scale at home, I just used my wife's kitchen scale and the set came in at around 1,450 grams (consider +/-10% accuracy). About 670 grams of weight saving from my Roval aluminum with Spes hubs.

They packed the wheels nicely inside a box with divider and some foam padding. USPS tried to make a delivery, but nobody's home, so I had to pick up the package at the post office. They didn't charge me any custom duties.

This was only my second attempt doing tubeless. First was with a Spes set with a few minor hiccups.
I used Stan's 25mm wide rim tape and valves. Cleaned the surface with alcohol and used a tire lever (as one of the ealier poster suggested) to help pressing the tape around the rim surface. Tires are Spes Ground Control and Purgatory. They sealed up so easily with a floor pump. I don't think it could have gone easier than that.

No ride time yet as we got 7" of fresh snow and more is coming.... It's killing me to watch the bike hanging in the garage....


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## ToneLOcust (Jan 31, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> I think one guy did washers. Don't think it is any better and adds weight and cost.


Hi Yourdaguy, Do you have a set of LB hoops? If so how do you like them? and did you get them pre built from China? of did you have someone build them for you?

Thx.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have 3 sets. I built them myself. One with AC hubs, one with DT 240, and one with the Shimano 529 hubs. I like the AC the best, the DT are a close 2nd and while the 529's were only $79 landed they weigh a ton, but have the quietest free hub ever. I use the Bontrager strips in all.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the measurement needs to be done with the rims laced up. Doing it this way means almost nothing.





yourdaguy said:


> But not nearly as much as the testing of the system as a whole.


If that were the case, there would be one rim fits all out, just build the wheel differently to suit the need.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

What I said does not imply what you said. The rim is part of a system and if you want to believe that measurements of just individual components matters then go ahead. I will spend my energy investigating built wheels.


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## ToneLOcust (Jan 31, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> I have 3 sets. I built them myself. One with AC hubs, one with DT 240, and one with the Shimano 529 hubs. I like the AC the best, the DT are a close 2nd and while the 529's were only $79 landed they weigh a ton, but have the quietest free hub ever. I use the Bontrager strips in all.


Did you use nipple washers. Thx


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

No, I have never used them. Spoke pull through has not been an issue with these rims at all.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> No, I have never used them. Spoke pull through has not been an issue with these rims at all.


Yes it has. I posted photos of my failures.
Washers aren't a fix for crappy manufacturing & Q/C (in my case) though.


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Fianlly got my wheels home. Sweetness. Tallboy Ltc now weighs 26.2 Lbs. Still have to get tubeless sorted out...and wait for winter to end. 

What valve stems did all yo'all use for the XC rims? I bought a set of Stans long.

FWIW I like the idea of beadhook-less, the sidewall is thicker so naturally the rims will be stronger. I can't complain on the price of $150 rims that weigh 350 grams each. :lol: If the manufacturer saved money by going this route they passed the savings on to me and everybody's happy.


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Has anyone actually ran a set of 35mm hookless wheels?

I'm thinking of ordering two sets for my SS and geared bikes.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

SJDude said:


> Fianlly got my wheels home. Sweetness. Tallboy Ltc now weighs 26.2 Lbs. Still have to get tubeless sorted out...and wait for winter to end.
> 
> What valve stems did all yo'all use for the XC rims? I bought a set of Stans long.
> 
> FWIW I like the idea of beadhook-less, the sidewall is thicker so naturally the rims will be stronger. I can't complain on the price of $150 rims that weigh 350 grams each. :lol: If the manufacturer saved money by going this route they passed the savings on to me and everybody's happy.


Are the LB beadhookless sidewalls actually thicker or are they thinner? I haven't seen the dimensioned drawings and it could easily be either way.

It doesn't seem like either design is inherently thicker or thinner. A manufacturer could build either to any thickness. Also, it isn't clear if it is stronger to have a constant medium thickness sidewall with no hook, or a sidewall that is thick in some areas and thin in others. If the hook portion is wider, that would imply that the sidewall is stronger laterally, like an I-beam (or really an L-beam).

It will be interesting to see how the durability compares in real world usage. So far I'm rather wary of the claims of hookless designs being stronger. My arm-chair engineering expertise says that an angle bar of steel is stronger than a flat bar of steel, and that this is analogous to rim sidewalls. Flat sidewalls could be stronger but it isn't an obvious conclusion.


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## singletrackkid (Jan 15, 2007)

Motivated said:


> I define "light" 29er wheels as sub 1500g. That's not achievable with Hope hubs. But, I think with revos you'll be close to 1600g. Check out the DT spoke length calculator - it also calculates weight.


By light, I assume you mean fast/quick spin-up... I realize that I'm preaching to the choir, but your hub weight will have virtually no impact on those measures. I've built some very fast wheels using Hope SS hubs - yes they're a little bit heavier than DTs and ACs, but I they're bomber and affordable to boot


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

dfiler said:


> My arm-chair engineering expertise says that an angle bar of steel is stronger than a flat bar of steel, and that this is analogous to rim sidewalls. Flat sidewalls could be stronger but it isn't an obvious conclusion.


It should be obvious that the side load on a rim wall comes from the tire bead and that the bead hook is outside this diameter - therefore can't carry load. The max stress will be at the root of the rim side wall. Thicker section here means stronger - all other factors being equal. Now, being that rim is round brings in other factors - think hoop stress, but that only applies to radial loads, not side loads with small deflections.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

dfiler said:


> Are the LB beadhookless sidewalls actually thicker or are they thinner? I haven't seen the dimensioned drawings and it could easily be either way.
> 
> It doesn't seem like either design is inherently thicker or thinner. A manufacturer could build either to any thickness. Also, it isn't clear if it is stronger to have a constant medium thickness sidewall with no hook, or a sidewall that is thick in some areas and thin in others. If the hook portion is wider, that would imply that the sidewall is stronger laterally, like an I-beam (or really an L-beam).
> 
> It will be interesting to see how the durability compares in real world usage. So far I'm rather wary of the claims of hookless designs being stronger. My arm-chair engineering expertise says that an angle bar of steel is stronger than a flat bar of steel, and that this is analogous to rim sidewalls. Flat sidewalls could be stronger but it isn't an obvious conclusion.


You're thinking too much... Just ride it and find out.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

mattsavage said:


> You're thinking too much... Just ride it and find out.


Why are you here if not to discuss carbon rims?

There is a new light-bicycle rim design that some people claim to be stronger. Simply riding it isn't sufficient to evaluate a new design. A single person's experience isn't always enough to determine if a design is stronger or superior in some way. That's the whole point of this forum, to gain from other people's knowledge and opinions.

If more rim manufacturers start switching to hookless sidewalls, that's a significant change and one that many people will want to know about before buying a new wheelset. Some of those people might even want to know if it is stronger.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Motivated said:


> It should be obvious that the side load on a rim wall comes from the tire bead and that the bead hook is outside this diameter - therefore can't carry load. The max stress will be at the root of the rim side wall. Thicker section here means stronger - all other factors being equal. Now, being that rim is round brings in other factors - think hoop stress, but that only applies to radial loads, not side loads with small deflections.


Whenever I've broken or damaged rims, it wasn't from bead force on the sidewall. Instead it was almost always from the rim striking the ground.

Typically this happens when attempting to hop a sharp boulder at extremely high speed and not quite clearing it. In other instances I've landed jumps crooked, absorbing as much of the impact as possible on the bike before bailing to the side. That rolls the tires sideways as the bike slams into the ground. The first scenario results in flat spots quite frequently on my downhill rims. The second results in sidewalls being bent sideways. In both, the sidewall buckles and that likelyhood to buckle is partially dependent on lateral strength.

But that's just with aluminum rims because I haven't put carbon hoops on the downhill bike yet. The rims are stronger but they might break instead of bend.

For my purposes, rim/ground impact is the most critical consideration when looking at sidewall strength.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

YaMon said:


> You need to go out and demo a set of carbon wheels and see what you are missing...


Srsly.

I felt a night and day difference between the LB Am29er rims (regular build) and the WTB SpeedDiscXC rims they replaced. BTW, I'm 210 pounds. No question about it. The bike held its line through the choppy stuff way better. Way moar point and shoot! Not to mention, dropping half a pound of rotating weight off the bike.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

yourdaguy said:


> I think one guy did washers. Don't think it is any better and adds weight and cost.


I bought some nipple washers for my build. I couldn't figure out how to get them in there, unless I fed them through the valve hole and shook them around the inside the rim cavity until they arrived at the right spoke hole and then held them in place with a dental pick while I threaded a nipple through them. That would have been way too much work, so I bagged that idea.

In the end, the wheelset has been solid for me without them. I've never even had to true them except for a little tweaking after the first couple rides. It's been like a year and a half since I got them.

As far as weight goes, the oval aluminum washer weight was very minimal. I think it would have added like 5-10g for the whole wheel.

Also remember that carbon reacts with aluminum nipples. Seems that the same would apply to the washers.



singletrackkid said:


> By light, I assume you mean fast/quick spin-up... I realize that I'm preaching to the choir, but your hub weight will have virtually no impact on those measures. I've built some very fast wheels using Hope SS hubs - yes they're a little bit heavier than DTs and ACs, but I they're bomber and affordable to boot


I have a Hope Pro2SS hub on my singlespeed. Yeah, great hub, but a tad portly. Then again, I think the newer ones come with an aluminum freehub body, where my older one has a steel freehub body. The steel fixing bolts don't help much either. I keep meaning to convert mine to a quick release. My SS frame has Breezer style vertical dropouts (with an EBB), so I don't need the bolt-on style attachment.

I got my hub second hand off Craigslist from a guy who bought the wrong one in a custom built wheel. He claims he never rode it, and judging by the wheel's condition, I believe him... and for $50 I wasn't going to be that picky about it. However, it was pretty draggy. I think it was due to this super thick grease Hope installs at the factory. Once I replaced the factory bearings with some ABEC5 grade Stainless Steel bearings off Fleabay, it freed up a bunch, but it was still draggier than my DT Swiss hubs (or Shimano cup-and-cone, for that matter. Hard to beat cup-and-cone for low drag).

Going rate for a HopePro2 hub these days is about $260. Compare that to a DT Swiss for $450. Yeah, the DT is nicer, but IMO not $200 nicer. I would probably never pony down $450+ for a hub, but if I found a used one in good shape for the price of the Pro2SS, I would go for it.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

dfiler,

Regarding your earlier question on sidewall thickness, and also the rock strike issue, I have been wondering that exact thing. From my number crunching:

The new 22mm (internal) and 30mm (internal) 29er hookless rims appear to have a 2.5mm thick sidewall over their whole surface.

The older wider 23mm (internal) 29er rims with a bead hook appear to have sidewalls that are 2.14mm thick at their thinnest, but they seem like they could be considered to be "thicker" where the hook extends inward. It is difficult to calculate how much thicker, because most of the hook is formed by simply curving the cross section inward, but part looks like it could be from actual added material. From their cross sectional drawings, it looks like mostly a curve, with very little added material, but from the actual cutaways on their website, it looks like there is some added material.

Additional considerations are that even if there is added material in the "hook" of the older design, it could have a higher resin/lower fiber content...or not.

Light-bicycle claims hookless is stronger not necessarily due to added material, but due to better alignment of the fiber, so there is that to take into consideration too.

I checked Derby's dimensions on his hookless rims and they seem to be 3mm thick, but in some of the images it looks like they have a subtle taper being thinner at the outer edge and thicker at the base.

My take on things is that, while a curved sidewall would seem to add strength from the more complex shape (like corrugated metal or an I beam) it also would provide a longer lever arm through which a dead on rock strike could cave or buckle the sidewall. That coupled with the fact that the hooked rims are .36mm thinner at mid point, suggests to me that, at least in the rock strike context, hookless would be stronger. 

Hope that helps...


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## AaronJobe (Sep 20, 2009)

Okay so without reading 208 pages should I replace my velocity 650b blunts with these?


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

I'm running Velocity Blunts on my wife's bike, and I'm waiting for Chinese new year to finish so they'll make and ship my set. 

I'm switching from Stan's so I'm excited to see the difference. 

posted from my mobile device


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

AaronJobe said:


> Okay so without reading 208 pages should I replace my velocity 650b blunts with these?


You mean upgrade to a 29er with LB Carbon rims? Yeah, totally!!  :thumbsup::rockon::drumroll::band:


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

AaronJobe said:


> Okay so without reading 208 pages should I replace my velocity 650b blunts with these?


Absolutely, 6 fiddy is an evolutionary dead end.


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Valve stems, xc rims, tubeless with gorilla tape, which ones?


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

Just had a set of LB wide (35mm outer) built up. Here are some random thoughts. First of all the Ardent 2.4 and Ikon 2.35 look ridiculously large. I had to let all the air out of the Ikon just to get the wheel on my bike with the adjustable chainstay in the shortest position. Moved it back about a quarter of an inch just in case of mud.

I was able to inflate both tires with No Stans immediately with a cheap air compressor. When I let all the air out to put stans in, the tires did not "fall of the rims" as some have predicted would happen with hookless rims.

Feeling a little under the weather and resting up for a weeks riding so didn't test them too much. Experimented with tire pressure and settled in on 16 front and 18 year as a minimum. I arrived at this by landing a bit sideways on a little of camber bit. I didn't burp, but it felt squirrely. I'm 160# and wasn't wearing a camelback.

The Ardent 2.4 was a beotch to mount up. Blamming the tire and not the rim because the Ikon went right on. I actually gave up for the night and dreamt up some interesting solution to the problem during my sleep. Woke up the next morning and just put the tire right on like usual in like 3 seconds. Weird.


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Sweet ride. Reminds me of the Merlin Newsboy?

Weighed up the xc rims, (on xtr hubs), including gorilla tape 1522 grams. Supposedly it's 18g per wheel for gorilla tape, so I'm under 1500 grams for the set. 

Not to shabby considering M980 hubs are nowhere near light compared to DT and a few others in the same price range.


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Do the LB rims spoke holes come out straight out or alternating asym?


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Do LB rim spoke hole come straight out? or alternating angled?


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

Straight


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

locominute said:


> Do the LB rims spoke holes come out straight out or alternating asym?


straight


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm contemplating a set of these hoops to replace my stock rims on my Scott (which came with dt 350 hubs front and back) so I think it would end up being a reasonably light and string wheelset if I used dt performance spokes. At 210 lbs I have to worry about strong 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

TwoNin9r said:


> I'm contemplating a set of these hoops to replace my stock rims on my Scott (which came with dt 350 hubs front and back) so I think it would end up being a reasonably light and string wheelset if I used dt performance spokes. At 210 lbs I have to worry about strong
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


210 isn't that heavy, unless you ride serious chop with no finesse. I'm 210 and these rims are holding up really well. No truing needed since the first couple of break-in/settle-in rides, and even that was minimal tweaking.

I say just use regular DT Swiss double butted spokes and brass nipples. They're way strong.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

My wheels came in last week. LB AM 30mm wheel set with Hope Pro 2's, total weight is 1559g. 723g for the front and 836g rear. Just need to put the bike together now.

Very well package.


Yes, they're round!


XX1-XD Drive.


At the scales.


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## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

pucked up,
I just ordered the same wheel set. 
How long did it take from ordering till delivery?
thanks


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Client, took about 6-7 weeks for me to receive my order. LB had a delay receiving the XD hubs, then there was Chinese New Year. Hopefully yours will only take half the time as their holiday is now over.


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## Dr Wankel (Oct 2, 2007)

pucked up said:


> My wheels came in last week. LB AM 30mm wheel set with Hope Pro 2's, total weight is 1559g. 723g for the front and 836g rear. Just need to put the bike together now.


Nice wheelset, what spokes did you end up going with?


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh thank you 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Dr Wankel said:


> Nice wheelset, what spokes did you end up going with?


I ended up using their Pillar Aero Xtra 1420 because I wanted to have red nipples. Going with the DT only gives you a choice of silver nipples.


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

pucked up said:


> I ended up using their Pillar Aero Xtra 1420 because I wanted to have red nipples. Going with the DT only gives you a choice of silver nipples.


I know nothing of those spokes? Info? Specs??


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

jkidd_39 said:


> I know nothing of those spokes? Info? Specs??


Go on LB's web site.
Pillar aero spoke PSR X-TRA 1420 of mountain bike spoke Light-Bicycle

I ride mostly XC and not very picky about which spokes to use. If you're a heavier rider, you may not want to use bladed spokes from what I've read here. But it's your choice.

I went with these so I can have the nipples color match the hubs and with the rest of the bike.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

pucked up said:


> Go on LB's web site.
> Pillar aero spoke PSR X-TRA 1420 of mountain bike spoke Light-Bicycle
> 
> I ride mostly XC and not very picky about which spokes to use. If you're a heavier rider, you may not want to use bladed spokes from what I've read here. But it's your choice.
> ...


Nice build! Are those the new Hope Pro2 Evo hubs, with the 40 sumthing point engagement? I could get into that.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Don't know. Is there a way to find out?

I feel that if I ask LB they would say it's the new 40 PoE one. I also feel that if I ask if it's the old one they would say yes as well.

I feel having a 24 or 40 POE won't make a big difference in the way I ride. If it did I would of gone for the I9 hubs which has 120 poe.


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## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

*40 poe*



pucked up said:


> Don't know. Is there a way to find out?


The hubs have a "40t" written under the EVO logo.
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/question-hope-pro-2-evo-40pt-891125.html#post10886454


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

client_9 said:


> The hubs have a "40t" written under the EVO logo.


They also make 40 clicks when you turn the free hub once. :arf:


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## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> They also make 40 clicks when you turn the free hub once. :arf:


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

So finally built my wheels up with the LB XC hookless rims (355g), I sure like building with carbon rims, they are so true and round out of the box you can cheat and bring them up t tension much faster. One wrap of gorilla tape and the fastraks aired up and seated with a confidence inspiring snap. Two rides in and they are pretty damn nice for 1400g $600.00 wheels if you're not concerned with labels.


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

I just got my wheels built; Nextie 35mm, red hope pro2 evo, black sapim cx-ray, red dt nipples. they weigh 1650 gr. I mounted geax gatos in 2,3 on them tubeless. Haven't ridden them yet, need to finish building my bike.


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## HouseNotes (Aug 18, 2012)

Pics!


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

I still can't figure out how to post pictures here, sorry. 
IMG_1527 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## sq225917 (Dec 28, 2008)




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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

Those are my wheels!  Thanks!


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## Jon8500 (Aug 31, 2009)

Just got my set of wider 29er rims built up. Very pleased with them, Will be giving them a test next week in a XC race.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

All taped up via gorilla tape. One layer with over lap by the valve hole.


Valve from an old tube trimmed and installed.


Another layer of tape over the valve about six inches long.


Rubber on and filled with air and holding. Able to pump it up with a floor pump to about 50 psi when the tire seated with a pop sound. 


Now time to put the bike together!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you need to put the tape on then the valve stem. I am predicting that you would be getting seepage otherwise.


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## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

pucked up said:


> All taped up via gorilla tape. One layer with over lap by the valve hole.


Nice! 
So does the rear hub say 40t under the logo?
Like this.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

what type of gorilla tape are you using?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

yourdaguy said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you need to put the tape on then the valve stem. I am predicting that you would be getting seepage otherwise.


Look at the 2nd pic and that's what I did. Only added a 2nd layer of tape to hold the valve down on to the rim.



client_9 said:


> Nice!
> So does the rear hub say 40t under the logo?
> Like this.


No, the hub I got is the old ones with 24 poe.

Triaxtremec the tape I used is called Gorilla tape the 1 inch handy pack. Can be found at any local hardware store like Home Depot or Lowes. About $2.50 in cost.


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## cloudbuster (Dec 14, 2011)

Rivet said:


> So finally built my wheels up with the LB XC hookless rims (355g), I sure like building with carbon rims, they are so true and round out of the box you can cheat and bring them up t tension much faster. One wrap of gorilla tape and the fastraks aired up and seated with a confidence inspiring snap. Two rides in and they are pretty damn nice for 1400g $600.00 wheels if you're not concerned with labels.


Wow yours are super light compared to others coming in at around 1600g
Whats the width of the rim and what hubs (1x11 or 2x10)
Also are they suited for 215lb riders?
Does the weight include the tape?


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## raggatip (Jan 16, 2011)

I bought some 30mm carbon rims from xmi play and they have a spoke direction sticker with an arrow pointing across the width of the rim instead instead of down. Can anyone tell me what this means please as even the wheel builder doesn't know. Thanks


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

cloudbuster said:


> Wow yours are super light compared to others coming in at around 1600g
> Whats the width of the rim and what hubs (1x11 or 2x10)
> Also are they suited for 215lb riders?
> Does the weight include the tape?


I suspect it a combination of the lighter rims, bladed spokes and hub selection. The 355g each saves 45-125g--my rims weighed 376/382, but many weigh 415-420 each especially if you are over 200lbs; the bladed spokes can save 1-2g per spoke -- another 55-125g, depending on spoke count; a 15mm thru axle vs 9mm upfrt or 12/142 Thru vs 9/135 QR in the rear using hope hubs vs the novatec hubs can make a difference of another 100g.

As I weigh 215-220 with gear and have a 6" travel MTB, my wheel builder recommended against using the lighter weight bladed spokes. YMMV though.


----------



## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

*R: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?*



raggatip said:


> I bought some 30mm carbon rims from xmi play and they have a spoke direction sticker with an arrow pointing across the width of the rim instead instead of down. Can anyone tell me what this means please as even the wheel builder doesn't know. Thanks


The arrow shows you which of the hub flange the spoke should go to...


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi Folks,

I have a set of these on order (650b 35mm) and was wondering if I should endeavour to use rim tape that spans the entire internal width of the rims (i.e. 30mm) vs the easier to locate 25mm Stan's tape?

I can also pick up the 3M 8898 in 2" width and cut to 30mm.

Does it matter?

Thanks,

Michael


----------



## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

geraldooka said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I have a set of these on order (650b 35mm) and was wondering if I should endeavour to use rim tape that spans the entire internal width of the rims (i.e. 30mm) vs the easier to locate 25mm Stan's tape?
> 
> ...


I'm wondering the same thing and if you look at the derby's the recommendation is just to put tape in the center channel. I'm leaning towards that to save a little cost and weight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

geraldooka said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I have a set of these on order (650b 35mm) and was wondering if I should endeavour to use rim tape that spans the entire internal width of the rims (i.e. 30mm) vs the easier to locate 25mm Stan's tape?
> 
> ...


Superstar Components have 29mm yellow tape. Used i for Syntace W35 sitt success.


----------



## raggatip (Jan 16, 2011)

*Spoke Direction Sticker*



savo said:


> The arrow shows you which of the hub flange the spoke should go to...


Thanks for the reply but I'm clearly being dumb. How would I know which flange these are pointing too?


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

That suggests that the spoke holes are angled to the hub flanges rather than exactly perpendicular to the rim. For that reason, each hole must be used with the proper side of the hub. Half of the spokes are angled to the brake side and half are angled to the drive side of the bike.

The sticker is next to one spoke hole. As long as the wheel builder puts that spoke to the proper flange, all the rest will be correct as well. It seems like something that should be obvious to any wheel builder, or at least any builder I'd trust to build my wheels. If they didn't realize it was wrong right away, they shouldn't be building a wheel at all.


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## raggatip (Jan 16, 2011)

dfiler said:


> That suggests that the spoke holes are angled to the hub flanges rather than exactly perpendicular to the rim. For that reason, each hole must be used with the proper side of the hub. Half of the spokes are angled to the brake side and half are angled to the drive side of the bike.
> 
> The sticker is next to one spoke hole. As long as the wheel builder puts that spoke to the proper flange, all the rest will be correct as well. It seems like something that should be obvious to any wheel builder, or at least any builder I'd trust to build my wheels. If they didn't realize it was wrong right away, they shouldn't be building a wheel at all.


That was the assumption on both our parts but he'd never seen that sticker before. He's definately someone I'd trust and in fairness he hadn't seen these photos I've posted. Thanks for clearing that up though.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Sorry, my intention wasn't to insult the wheel builder but rather that a competent builder wouldn't need that sticker anyway.

It's like labeling "left" and "right" shoes with stickers... in case anyone didn't know. 

( Edited to not come off lie a jerk )


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

dfiler said:


> Sorry, my intention wasn't to insult the wheel builder but rather that a competent builder wouldn't need that sticker anyway.
> 
> It's like labeling "left" and "right" shoes with stickers... in case anyone didn't know.
> 
> ( Edited to not come off lie a jerk )


Sometimes the hole orientation is pretty subtle, especially if the holes aren't offset slightly from each other (I don't mean asym drilled, I mean the holes for left flange are slightly left of rim centerline, and holes right are slightly right).

Seating a spoke/nipple and seeing which way it "leans" is certainly feasible by a competent builder, but the sticker saves your that step.

I would hardly compare it to left and right shoes. Can you identify the spoke hole orientation from 20 feet away?

That said, if I made the sticker I'd have probably labeled it "flange" rather than "spoke".


----------



## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I can't identify my right shoe from 20 feet away either. 

But yeah, you're right, no harm in having the sticker.


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

That was sort of my point: no harm, and arguably some convenience.

The funnier thing to me is a wheelbuilder not knowing the point of the sticker. But apparently knowledgeable enough to lace the spokes the correct way (as far as I can tell from the photos . . . of course, he/she also had a 50/50 chance if it was a guess, so maybe it was luck).


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

InertiaMan said:


> That was sort of my point: no harm, and arguably some convenience.
> 
> The funnier thing to me is a wheelbuilder not knowing the point of the sticker. But apparently knowledgeable enough to lace the spokes the correct way (as far as I can tell from the photos . . . of course, he/she also had a 50/50 chance if it was a guess, so maybe it was luck).


It becomes rather apparent early in a build if its not orientated correctly, luck probably was not at play imo.


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## raggatip (Jan 16, 2011)

They haven't been laced yet and I obtained those photos from Peter at XMI Play. To be honest a better label would be "Drive side" or "Non Drive side" depending on the hole it was next to or alternatively no sticker at all as sometimes it can just lead to confusion like all the bloody sign posts on the roads in England. But that's a rant for another forum altogether.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

raggatip said:


> They haven't been laced yet and I obtained those photos from Peter at XMI Play. To be honest a better label would be "Drive side" or "Non Drive side" depending on the hole it was next to or alternatively no sticker at all as sometimes it can just lead to confusion like all the bloody sign posts on the roads in England. But that's a rant for another forum altogether.


A DS or NDS label would further confuse the matter. I can lace the rim shown in the photo with the arrow pointing to the NDS, or the DS, and still have the correct spokes in the correct holes. in other words, think about flipping the rim around so the sticker is pointing the opposite way . . . it can still be built properly, but the sticker is now pointing at the opposite side of the hub.

EDIT: I will agree with you on the UK signposts though!


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

*light-bicycle direct vs eBay*

Has anyone else noticed that its cheaper to buy rims from light-bicycle on eBay than directly from their site?

Basically, if you purchase directly, they charge you the Paypal fees. But if you purchase on eBay, they don't. Its not a lot of money ($13.30 in my case) but enough to make me lean toward eBay.

I expected the opposite to be true. Surely their costs are lower if you buy directly, since they don't need to pay any eBay transaction fees.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

InertiaMan said:


> Has anyone else noticed that its cheaper to buy rims from light-bicycle on eBay than directly from their site?
> 
> Basically, if you purchase directly, they charge you the Paypal fees. But if you purchase on eBay, they don't. Its not a lot of money ($13.30 in my case) but enough to make me lean toward eBay.
> 
> I expected the opposite to be true. Surely their costs are lower if you buy directly, since they don't need to pay any eBay transaction fees.


They have to pay a sales person to handle the transaction.


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## sand wedge (Sep 24, 2012)

What is the eBay link?


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## Rodeodave (May 11, 2013)

Mountain Bike Carbon Wheelset, Mountain Bike Carbon Rim items in Light-Bicycle-Global store on eBay!


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

I've never even attempted to build a wheel but i would guess that the spoke direction means in which way the spoke is leaning. See in the pictures? That first spoke has to go to the outside, and i'm guessing but thats the way i'd interpret it.


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## sq225917 (Dec 28, 2008)

Yeh, but the eBay rims are lower quality.........














Now you're worried aren't you.....


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

Adroit Rider said:


> They have to pay a sales person to handle the transaction.


FWIW dealing with a salesperson is worth $13 to me. The answer questions about your order, make sure it's right, email you when it ships. Money well spent. I think I tipped my waitress more than that for lunch yesterday.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

SJDude said:


> FWIW dealing with a salesperson is worth $13 to me. The answer questions about your order, make sure it's right, email you when it ships. Money well spent. I think I tipped my waitress more than that for lunch yesterday.


+1 
That's what I thought when I noticed they were on E Bay.
The only price difference was shipping $43 on E Bay or $50 From LB so it was only $7.
That's a bottle of beer lol .


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

SJDude said:


> FWIW dealing with a salesperson is worth $13 to me. The answer questions about your order, make sure it's right, email you when it ships. Money well spent. I think I tipped my waitress more than that for lunch yesterday.


If you're spending $50-80 on lunch, I would think you'd be buying Enve rims, not these humble light-bicycle rims. But I digress . . .



Adroit Rider said:


> They have to pay a sales person to handle the transaction.


Since LB hasn't sold any meaningful volume yet on eBay so aren't getting volume breaks, lets presume they pay the ~10% fee that we all pay. So on a $380 transaction via their direct site + $13 for paypal fees, LB is grossing $393 before paypal. In contrast, via eBay, they are clearing only $380 - $38 = $342 before paypal fees. That's a $51 difference: a pretty significant drop in revenue on a $380 transaction.

In my past two orders with LB (since they've had the website store functioning) the entire transaction was automated. The only interaction I had was a single email from them to confirm the order was correct. Unlike Adroit, I have a hard time believing the $50 difference in revenue to LB is going to a "salesperson" who sent me one email. If so, its the best job in China.

In fact, there is actually MORE human interaction required for the eBay transaction, since it requires follow-up dialog w/ LB to determine the hole count and finish. Via their direct site, their automated store supports those selections.

So back to my original purpose . . . has anyone here actually purchased via eBay? If so, what were the pros/cons?


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## dannysimth (Feb 19, 2014)

I bought a pair of 29er MTB Full Carbon Clincher Rims 23.5mm Height, and they are great. So far so good.


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## sq225917 (Dec 28, 2008)

I had at least 6 emails from LB with my direct sale. Possibly automated based on bar code tracking within their production, but I doubt it. I think it was real person communication.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

Just got my Light-bike wheelset in with novatech hubs and they laced the drive side rear 2x, similar experience with you all?


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## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

Ratt said:


> Just got my Light-bike wheelset in with novatech hubs and they laced the drive side rear 2x, similar experience with you all?


Can we see a pic? 28 hole or 32?

I have an order in w/ them (32 hole rim) and I didn't consider specifying lacing. 
I'm 210 lbs suited up. 
I want 3x correct?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

32 hole and 3 times is the standard lacing and gives lots of choices if you ever need to replace the rim or hub. 3 times is the strongest you can do with 32 holes.


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## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

yourdaguy said:


> 32 hole and 3 times is the standard lacing and gives lots of choices if you ever need to replace the rim or hub. 3 times is the strongest you can do with 32 holes.


That's what I thought. 
I hope LightBicycle gets my email before they start building my wheels.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

SJDude said:


> FWIW dealing with a salesperson is worth $13 to me. The answer questions about your order, make sure it's right, email you when it ships. Money well spent. I think I tipped my waitress more than that for lunch yesterday.


 For 13 bucks I hope she was nude and dangling from a pole...


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

If you went for 24 or 28 spokes in the rear, 3x may require very long spokes which are quite unusual and hard to source...


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

syl3 said:


> If you went for 24 or 28 spokes in the rear, 3x may require very long spokes which are quite unusual and hard to source...


This is true when I went and figured out my 28 hole Chris King hubs 3x it was giving me numbers of 293.3/294.1 and 294.4/293.2. 
So I figured I would go 294.
When I did a search online I couldn't find them.
But I was looking for DT Swiss Comp White spoke's which may be even harder to find.


----------



## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

< delete >


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

client_9 said:


> Can we see a pic? 28 hole or 32?
> 
> I have an order in w/ them (32 hole rim) and I didn't consider specifying lacing.
> I'm 210 lbs suited up.
> I want 3x correct?


32 hole, ya 3x is preferred.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

There is nothing unusual about 294mm spokes. Not overly long. White maybe but 294 is not overly long.


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

raggatip said:


> Thanks for the reply but I'm clearly being dumb. How would I know which flange these are pointing too?
> 
> View attachment 870401
> 
> ...


LOL at the sticker. Are they being serious? The type of rim (either A or B) spoke offset right or left in relation to the valve hole is the very first thing any competent builder will look at. The fact that they put an arrow on there makes me wonder just who they think are building their wheels. Even more scary..........who is building their wheels that ship complete? Is that sticker for their employees??!!


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

InertiaMan said:


> If you're spending $50-80 on lunch, I would think you'd be buying Enve rims, not these humble light-bicycle rims. But I digress . . .


:lol:

Nope just lunch at the griz bar in Fernie. Ski hill prices...



> mattsavage
> 
> For 13 bucks I hope she was nude and dangling from a pole...


:lol:


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

PauLCa916 said:


> This is true when I went and figured out my 28 hole Chris King hubs 3x it was giving me numbers of 293.3/294.1 and 294.4/293.2.
> So I figured I would go 294.
> When I did a search online I couldn't find them.
> But I was looking for DT Swiss Comp White spoke's which may be even harder to find.


If I remember correctly, my calculations were 292 and 293 for a king front. That's a normal number for 29er spokes. dt comp spokes are available in that size and even longer. Googling 293 dt competition turns up like a kajillion stores that sell them. 

Edit: oops, you said white. You're right, white spokes are harder to find.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

dfiler said:


> If I remember correctly, my calculations were 292 and 293 for a king front. That's a normal number for 29er spokes. dt comp spokes are available in that size and even longer. Googling 293 dt competition turns up like a kajillion stores that sell them.
> 
> Edit: oops, you said white. You're right, white spokes are harder to find.


You can use longer nipples to accommodate shorter spokes - likely cheaper if you can buy 1 spoke length and 2 nipple lengths than other way around. And common spoke length is nice for maintenance.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

It can be cheaper to use a single length if you're buying an entire box and can get that for cheaper. But if just buying what's needed plus a few spares, it is always better to buy the correct length.

Buying the same length doesn't make maintenance easier. All it means is that the wheel is originally laced with spokes that aren't the optimal length. If you buy the proper length, you might someday have a replacement spoke or two that aren't the optimal length. But price would be the only reason to start off that way.

For DT swiss competition spokes in white, all sizes are in stock at universal cycles and can be purchased individually.
Universal Cycles -- DT Competition Spokes - White


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## BradOlsen84 (Jul 15, 2013)

Hello. First off I would like to say I'm new to buying/building a bike. 

I'm looking at getting some xc rims for a custom built 29er. I weight 150lbs.
What are some things i should look for the wheel set. Budget is around 500-600$

Thanks brad


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

*AM vs Standard hookless 27mil rim*

I'm just about ready to order my wheelset from LB but cant decide which version of the hookless rim to get. They are going on an Ibis Ripley that I have set up with a 140mm fork. I'm really hoping for a lighter build, but I do ride very aggressively (I hit jumps/ gaps frequently and up to 5-6' drops with decent transitions)I weigh about 170 and our local stuff can be bony and generally pretty chundery. My Alu rims usually are riddled with dents after a season or 2 running 30psi.
Having said that, I am racing xc with the same wheelset... Is there much difference between the am vs. the normal version rims? Ill be running 2.2- 2.4 tires on there. 
I'm leaning towards the normal, xc version of the rim as I'm guessing they will be stouter than the stans arch I have now. Id like to keep the wheelset around 1600 or grams or less with the lighter novatec D772 hubs and dt revolution's. 
Thanks for any feedback.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

With a 140mm fork and multi-foot drops, get the widest version. The industry is moving away from rims that are much narrower than the tires being used. They've figured out that wider rims handle better (less lateral roll) and width from a wider carbon rim doesn't weigh more than width from a wider tire. 

If needing to save weight, run a smaller tire on a bigger rim to achieve the same size as the next larger tire mated with a more narrow rim.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

dfiler said:


> It can be cheaper to use a single length if you're buying an entire box and can get that for cheaper. But if just buying what's needed plus a few spares, it is always better to buy the correct length.
> 
> Buying the same length doesn't make maintenance easier. All it means is that the wheel is originally laced with spokes that aren't the optimal length. If you buy the proper length, you might someday have a replacement spoke or two that aren't the optimal length. But price would be the only reason to start off that way.
> 
> ...


"proper length" of a spoke is only relative to the selected nipple. A 278mm spoke in a 14mm nipple is just as good as a 280mm spoke in a 12mm nipple.

My point primarily that nipple length is a variable that gives you options. But may limit color options.

It is much cheaper to buy a box. Assume you buy a box of 72 white Competition spokes, length for the non-drive side, it's is about $190 - includes 12mm nipples, add 32 14mm nipples to accommodate shorter (drive side) spokes and total is ~ $205. 66 individual spokes from UC is $264, plus 66 nipples is ~$300. You save $95.

Many spoke length calculators don't have nipple length as a variable (12mm is assumed). But note that Derby recommends 14mm.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Motivated said:


> "proper length" of a spoke is only relative to the selected nipple. A 278mm spoke in a 14mm nipple is just as good as a 280mm spoke in a 12mm nipple.


This is not correct. First, DT Swiss nipples require correction. Sapim do not. Second, the correction for 14mm DT Swiss nipples is 1mm, not 2.


Motivated said:


> It is much cheaper to buy a box.


This may be true some places, but not all.



Motivated said:


> Many spoke length calculators don't have nipple length as a variable (12mm is assumed). But note that Derby recommends 14mm.


They don't because correction is not automatic, as I mentioned above.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

2 things I still don't get.

1. Why aren't they making the hubs to be using a single spoke length, front and rear, left and right ? All they would need is a tad larger flange or 1-2mm offset...

2. When buying each length, why do people think it's a big deal if a spoke breaks because you have 4 different spoke lengths ? Just order a spare or two of each length exactly for that purpose... That's like 72 spokes instead of 64, not a big deal.

Someone will probably give me crap about these, but still funny.


----------



## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

It has to do with bracing angle and the fact that the wheel would tend to be more prone to go to one side or the other. American Classic hubs are narrower on the non-drive rear and non disc front in order to allow building with one spoke size. By doing it that way, the wheel is more symmetrical and I don't notice any weakness. I like the AC design but others might disagree. Also, per your post, It would be more than 1-2 mm offset.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

David C said:


> 2 things I still don't get.
> 
> 1. Why aren't they making the hubs to be using a single spoke length, front and rear, left and right ? All they would need is a tad larger flange or 1-2mm offset...


Because having different spoke lengths is ZERO on the big deal scale. Also, flange height has little effect on spoke length for tangential spokes... as does offset.


David C said:


> When buying each length, why do people think it's a big deal if a spoke breaks because you have 4 different spoke lengths ? Just order a spare or two of each length exactly for that purpose... That's like 72 spokes instead of 64, not a big deal.


Wait... is different spoke lengths a big deal or not? :arf:
Another option is to just build quality wheels and spoke breakage is extremely rare. I don't even order extra spokes. I would just have them lying around collecting dust. :thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> It has to do with bracing angle and the fact that the wheel would tend to be more prone to go to one side or the other. American Classic hubs are narrower on the non-drive rear and non disc front in order to allow building with one spoke size. By doing it that way, the wheel is more symmetrical and I don't notice any weakness. I like the AC design but others might disagree. Also, per your post, It would be more than 1-2 mm offset.


American Classic has narrow NDS flange offset to balance tension, not spoke length.


----------



## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

cloudbuster said:


> Wow yours are super light compared to others coming in at around 1600g
> Whats the width of the rim and what hubs (1x11 or 2x10)
> Also are they suited for 215lb riders?
> Does the weight include the tape?


Light Bicycle XC hookless 29" rims.
Sapim Laser spokes (bladed spokes are no lighter or stronger than round spokes of similar cross section) 
Sapim nipples 
Bike Hub Store Bitex hubs 15mm front 142-12mm rear.


----------



## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

Does anyone know who the manufacture is for this ebay store?

29er Carbon Fiber MTB Rim 29" Mountain Bike Bicycle Carbon Fiber Clincher Rims | eBay


----------



## c_klein87 (Apr 28, 2013)

not sure if this is old new, but xmi play do 29er tubular rims now, has anybody tried a pair?


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## BradOlsen84 (Jul 15, 2013)

Ok guys im buying this wheel set

NSS IP-M23C carbon 29er wheels, NSS carbon clincher 29er wheels tubeless compatible XC wheels-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Im wondering if it will work just fine with a X01 Cassette?? its made for the XX1.

like is the freehub the same for both xx1 and X01

I think they are interchangeable right?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

c_klein87 said:


> not sure if this is old new, but xmi play do 29er tubular rims now, has anybody tried a pair?

















Just built mine up. 584mm ERD.

Will be using either Dugast Fast Birds or Tufo XC6s.

I have XC4s on another set of tubulars and I've been VERY impressed.


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## c_klein87 (Apr 28, 2013)

@le juke, nice! if i were faster at racing xc i'd consider a pair, always been interested by tubulars


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> View attachment 871805
> View attachment 871804
> 
> Just built mine up. 584mm ERD.


Saw those on the Xiamen site the other day and was immediately thinking DT Swiss 240s straight pull CL (wish they made those in 24 hole) for cyclocross. I am guessing you went 32-hole, mind sharing the weights?


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

c_klein87 said:


> not sure if this is old new, but xmi play do 29er tubular rims now, has anybody tried a pair?
> 
> View attachment 871541


Here it is: eliflap | the light side of the moon &#8230;.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Iplay 2014 newest 24mm width N-SS IP-M23C 29er wheels for 100x15 / 142x12 thru axles compatible for SRAM XX1, 1440g only!

Novatec D771/D772 hubs for thru axle espacilly for SRAM XX1, Sapim CX-Delta Spokes, Sapim nipples

We have other rims IP-RM930C in 30mm width and IP-RM935C 35mm width option.

Some pictures for reference

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

I recently purchased a set of 35mm 29er rims from L-B. I first exchanged several emails with 'Carolin' before purchasing. She actually asked me to purchase off eBay rather than the web site. I figured it was to get the feedback score up..no sweat off my back. Directly after purchasing I received an auto email about the details. I ended up going with ud, matte, 32 hole, DH (instead of the lighter AM)... should be here in a week or so, and they'll be built up shortly after that. I will post an initial review shortly after they are rolling.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

what is light bicycle's seller name on ebay? Or link me to an auction.

EDIT: Oh nm lightbicycle-us

Sorry, that is a very general two words to search for on ebay lol


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

zephxiii said:


> what is light bicycle's seller name on ebay? Or link me to an auction.
> 
> EDIT: Oh nm lightbicycle-us
> 
> Sorry, that is a very general two words to search for on ebay lol


lightbicycle-us


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

c_klein87 said:


> not sure if this is old new, but xmi play do 29er tubular rims now, has anybody tried a pair?
> 
> View attachment 871541


Below is feedback from the guy who is using the rims now.

"i am fine, thanks. hoping the same for you .

you can see the wheel ready on the bike here :
Nuove ruote | eliflap

Flash Di2 2014 | eliflap

i tried only 2 rides of 30 km each ...however i feel the wheelset incredible stiff!

with 1.5 front and 1.8 rear (bar) pressure, incredible grip on the track !!

hubs are Soul Kozak from Poland, spokes are Sapim CX-ray
"


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> Another option is to just build quality wheels and spoke breakage is extremely rare. I don't even order extra spokes. I would just have them lying around collecting dust. :thumbsup:


+1 - Once I started getting quality custom wheels built I've never had an issue. They rarely need to see a spoke wrench even. I'm 180lbs without gear so not a cylde, but not a featherweight either.

I carry kevlar emergency spokes in my pack. They are adjustable length and will get me home if I were to damage a spoke in a crash. Best of all you can fit them to the driveside without removing the cassette.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

What's the avg number of days that a ghetto tubeless set up with no sealant hold air for with these rims? After about a 1.5 - 2 wks pressure went from ~18psi to 12psi and the bike is just sitting in my basement as I haven't ridden the bike yet as there is over 50ft of snow up here in Canada still.

This is with one layer of gorilla tape around the rim. Will adding sealant hold the pressure longer?


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

pucked up said:


> What's the avg number of days that a ghetto tubeless set up with no sealant hold air for with these rims? After about a 1.5 - 2 wks pressure went from ~18psi to 12psi and the bike is just sitting in my basement as I haven't ridden the bike yet as there is over 50ft of snow up here in Canada still.
> 
> This is with one layer of gorilla tape around the rim. Will adding sealant hold the pressure longer?


It hard to say but I mounted up some tires and rode them once 7 miles then decided I didn't like them so the next morning I change tires and mounted up a different set only and hour before the start of the race. It took a little while to get them to bead but once they did I set the pressure and off I went. 202 miles and 22 hours later I finished my race and although I didn't check the exact pressure the tires felt totally fine just like I had set them the day before.

In my current front tire I can hear the sealant bouncing around inside so its time to change but it hold air just fine but randomly it'll drop over night. Like it'll be good on several rides over a week, I check it every time I head out. Then on some random day I'll be down to like 5-10 psi. This has only happened with this tire and batch of sealant so maybe once I clean it out and toss some fresh sealant in there it won't do that any more.

Long story short plan for it to take a couple "rides" no days to get the best seal.


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## dirkdaddy (Sep 4, 2007)

PeterQ520 said:


> Below is feedback from the guy who is using the rims now.
> 
> "i am fine, thanks. hoping the same for you .
> 
> ...


Looks like the tires are different so why weigh them? Anyway, the carbon wheels weigh more as shown. I guess so much for making his bike lighter?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

pucked up said:


> What's the avg number of days that a ghetto tubeless set up with no sealant hold air for with these rims? After about a 1.5 - 2 wks pressure went from ~18psi to 12psi and the bike is just sitting in my basement as I haven't ridden the bike yet as there is over 50ft of snow up here in Canada still.
> 
> This is with one layer of gorilla tape around the rim. Will adding sealant hold the pressure longer?


That's not bad really for no sealant. I mean u could be losing air through the tires, sealant will slow that down. It will also plug up most punctures.

I recommend Orange Seal over Stan's.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Thanks guys. I'll ride around when the snow melts without sealant and take it from there.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

dirkdaddy said:


> Looks like the tires are different so why weigh them? Anyway, the carbon wheels weigh more as shown. I guess so much for making his bike lighter?


Yes, but they are tubulars. He wasn't trying to lose weight.

Better traction, faster rolling, almost impossible to pinch, impossible to burp.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

pucked up said:


> Thanks guys. I'll ride around when the snow melts without sealant and take it from there.


Please don't ride non-UST tires without sealant.

You'll be "that guy" that has a flat/leak, rolls a tire off the rim, and blames tubeless for his misfortunes, all over the internet.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> Please don't ride non-UST tires without sealant.
> 
> You'll be "that guy" that has a flat/leak, rolls a tire off the rim, and blames tubeless for his misfortunes, all over the internet.


Mine are UST tires.


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## eighty6gt (Mar 2, 2014)

Just "built" some wheels with "wider 29"" light bicycle rims. Could not determine any handedness - rims seemed center drilled. Maybe the holes were angled but drilled on center, did not seem that way.

Max tension is listed at 180 kgf. At 137 on park gauge the area around some of the spoke holes deformed. I hadn't intended on going tighter, they just seemed to be headed here and it's 22 on the gauge.

I'd say stick around 100. Probably would have been fine. Many alu rims can handle 125, and I felt invincible with that stratospheric 180 kgf ceiling.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

eighty6gt said:


> Just "built" some wheels with "wider 29"" light bicycle rims. Could not determine any handedness - rims seemed center drilled. Maybe the holes were angled but drilled on center, did not seem that way.
> 
> Max tension is listed at 180 kgf. At 137 on park gauge the area around some of the spoke holes deformed. I hadn't intended on going tighter, they just seemed to be headed here and it's 22 on the gauge.
> 
> I'd say stick around 100. Probably would have been fine. Many alu rims can handle 125, and I felt invincible with that stratospheric 180 kgf ceiling.


So.... sounds like maybe you didnt read this thread?


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

eighty6gt said:


> Just "built" some wheels with "wider 29"" light bicycle rims. Could not determine any handedness - rims seemed center drilled. Maybe the holes were angled but drilled on center, did not seem that way.
> 
> Max tension is listed at 180 kgf. At 137 on park gauge the area around some of the spoke holes deformed. I hadn't intended on going tighter, they just seemed to be headed here and it's 22 on the gauge.
> 
> I'd say stick around 100. Probably would have been fine. Many alu rims can handle 125, and I felt invincible with that stratospheric 180 kgf ceiling.


News I can use. Thx


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

I also built w/ LB "wider 29" and they were straight drilled on the centerline. 

Their 180 max tension value is suspect to me. Certainly no one should consider building anywhere near that tension. Not that its even possible -- many spoke/nipple combos are going to have a very difficult time turning above 125kgf or so. 

I built mine to ~ 110kgf using a Wheelsmith tensiometer.

Of all the "technologies" incorporated into these rims, I'm very frustrated that they don't embrace an asymmetric/offset design. I've had great experience w/ offset rims from Bontrager and Velocity. Significant benefit with little/no downside; doesn't seem like it would impact LB's manufacturing process too much.


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## eighty6gt (Mar 2, 2014)

Very easy to tension to this and beyond. Nickel on threads and I lubed the nipple shoulders. Just built a 26" with a stans rim, came out perfect.

I expect lb will warranty my rims since their specs are blatantly wrong. Haha. We'll see.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

^^

I'm pretty sure straight center drilling is not as difficult and expensive to do as having a jig for angled and offset drilling. All use right now is a simple straight forward jig. If they would buy or setup an angled and/or offset drilling jig, that would increase their cost and they would have to raise their prices. But I agree, angled drilling would be a big plus on these considering you have to deal with extra friction and bending on the spoke threads when building to high tension right now.

Maybe if they get enough demand for it, they'll offer angled drilling at an additional cost ?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

^^

I wasn't talking about angled drilling, or holes offset relative to other holes. I agree that such drilling would be more expensive/difficult than centered/perpendicular drilling.

I was referring to holes (and rim cross section) being offset relative to the rim centerline. In this case, all the holes could still all be drilled on one "line" and perpendicular . . . its just that the line would not be centered on the rim. It would require a different mold so that the "peak" of the rim (where the holes are drilled) would be 2 to 4mm offset from center. But I don't see why that mold would be significantly more difficult or expensive to make than a typical symmetric one.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I think each molds requires about 3-5 days of CNC and manual machining. Plus there wouldn't be enough demand for them to look into it (unfortunately), as for most the benefits and magic of offset rims isn't a concern. Also, wouldn't that offset be different upon each axle spacing ? A 135mm axle and a 142mm or 150mm would not require the same exact offset, or does the difference would not be significant to worry about it ?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

David C said:


> I think each molds requires about 3-5 days of CNC and manual machining. Plus there wouldn't be enough demand for them to look into it (unfortunately), as for most the benefits and magic of offset rims isn't a concern. Also, wouldn't that offset be different upon each axle spacing ? A 135mm axle and a 142mm or 150mm would not require the same exact offset, or does the difference would not be significant to worry about it ?


The "optimal" offset would indeed vary between hubs, not necessarily due to OLD length, but due to flange spacing. My point is that a 150mm hub doesn't necessarily have wider flange stance (though in practice most do). But more to the point: the optimal offset isn't that important. My main point is that some offset is better than none. For wide-ish 30mm (outside) rims, a 3.5mm offset would be pretty straightforward to implement. And for the vast majority of builds, it would bring nearly identical spoke lengths plus much more equal bracing angles and tensions . . . all issues that are important enough to LB customers that they often get debated here ad nauseam.

As for the mold times/costs, of course a NEW mold will have new/additional costs. They keep introducing new rims (the "new process" wider 29s, the bead hookless, etc) and each of them require molds. My point is that the design/mold costs for a new rim aren't really impacted by asymmetry, ie there isn't a downside. So why haven't they been doing asymmetric rims?

In road rims I understand why not: people want a centered model for the front wheel. So going asym means an entire second set of molds. But in MTB, where all builds are disc, both the front and rear rims benefit from the same asym design. So why not be all asym instead of all symmetric??


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

With 32 spokes offset rims don't add that much. Also, offset are heavier.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> With 32 spokes offset rims don't add that much. Also, offset are heavier.


I'm not aware of any evidence to support either of those statements.

Benefits of offset drilling are independent of the hole count; there is virtually no diminishing effect as the hole count increases. For example, using a shimano disc hub and a 603 ERD rim (= LB wider 29) laced 3X as an example:

Relative NDS/DS tension on a *symmetric *rim:
32H front = 143%
24H front = 144%
32H rear = 65%
24H rear = 65%
Relative NDS/DS tension on a 3.5mm *asym *rim:
32H front = 114%
24H front = 114%
32H rear = 84%
24H rear = 84%

So the hole count is irrelevant to this specific topic. Regardless of hole count, you get the benefit of ~ 20% reduction in spoke tension "unequalness". One can debate if that 20% (and the associated improved bracing angle which influences wheel stiffness) is a worthwhile benefit. Personally I think its a significant benefit, and has the additional bonus of making a single spoke length viable for all four flanges in many hubsets.

As for the weight issue, why do you think they are heavier? I can't think of any reason asym needs to be heavier. And if one compares weight of existing sym/asym models, the differences are negligible and go both ways:

Velocity Synergy sym/asym = 490/490g
Velocity A23 sym/asym = 450/460g
Velocity Aerohead sym/asym = 405/400g
Nox Composites asym carbon 30mm rim = 385g
LB sym carbon 30mm = 390g (+/- 10g)

Any weight deltas are less than typical rim-to-rim variance among a given model.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The reason I say they are heavier is that when Shimano went to offset rear on some of their road aluminum rims the rear wheel gained over 50 grams.

With 32 spokes you generally go to 3 cross and the cross bracing tends to negate any advantages of more symmetrical bracing. Take a rear MTB wheel that is 3 cross 32 spokes and clamp it into a frame without a tire and push to either side with equal force and you will find that there is very little difference in deflection.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/bb2w7fyifaevyu6/g4nCQKlJR6


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## eighty6gt (Mar 2, 2014)

For the record I took 1/2 turn out of the rear wheel and 1/4 out of the front, down to 110 kgf on the tight side on both wheels now. I suspect I'd have bulged spoke holes after some use whether I had them up as high as I did or not. Found another thread about manufacturing defects.

If LB wants to send me some free hoops, great, otherwise I'll make sure my helmet is on and see what happens. Wish me luck! Saving so much money...


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> With 32 spokes you generally go to 3 cross and the cross bracing tends to negate any advantages of more symmetrical bracing.


Again I don't find your point credible. Cross bracing negates advantages of symmetric bracing? If one actually measures it, number of crosses has very negligible impact on bracing angle. Laced 2X vs. 3X, the bracing angle changes less than 2%. Other lacing patterns (radial, 1X, 4X) are rarely used in disc wheels.

Pushing a wheel clamped in a frame isn't exactly a precise measurement, but I'll accept your example, and I'll even accept the conclusion: a given amount of force will have essentially the same deflection on both sides of a given wheel, despite the spoke angles being substantially different. Well of course it does! That's because the horizontal component of the spoke tension force is essentially the same on both sides. The steeper angle (drive side) may have a higher tension, but less of it is directed in the horizontal dimension.

That exercise does not actually illustrate your claim. What you should really be comparing is the deflection of one rim built symmetric and another rim built asymmetric, _both with identical drive side spoke tension._ And in that example, the asym wheel WILL have measurably less deflection. That's because the DS spokes on the asym wheel will have a higher horizontal force component than the sym wheel.



yourdaguy said:


> when Shimano went to offset rear on some of their road aluminum rims the rear wheel gained over 50 grams


Certainly I could see how that might make one think that asym was the forcing factor on the weight. But this change may have correlated with their move to a UST rim profile. So the beefed up rim around the spokes may be the extra weight. At any rate, its hard to find perfect apples/apples comparison. Ultimately I still don't see any material reason they need to be heavier.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

No they didn't change to UST. The only apparent change was to the back rim. I have the Shimano "Trade Sales and Support" manuals from those years and the only apparent change was to the rear rim.

If you can't see that a perfect arch is more efficient in material than a skewed arch, I can't help you.

You are claiming that a non-symmetric rim should have less deflection overall and actually, if the overall bracing is similar then the non-symmetric rim should be equal on each side and the symmetric should be skewed to one side with less deflection in one direction and more in the other. This is the argument the Bill S makes for the AC design (which I like)

So why is pushing a wheel clamped in a frame not a precise measurement? If I push it at the top, it represents the same thing that the ground pushing it at the bottom would do.
I currently have a tire on my AC wheels, but I have done the same test and while the AC wheels are more symmetric, the difference is not enough in my opinion to be felt while riding. I love my AC wheels and they are my favorite, but this bracing angle thing is way overplayed, just like zero stack pedals and Q factor.

Why does not the fact that my "exercise" that indicates almost no difference between the deflection left or right not "illustrate" my claim when building a similar wheel built to your specifications with an offset rim that would show a similar lack of difference of deflection illustrate your point?

Your quote, to me, proves my point;
Quote>>>
I'll accept your example, and I'll even accept the conclusion: a given amount of force will have essentially the same deflection on both sides of a given wheel, despite the spoke angles being substantially different. Well of course it does! That's because the horizontal component of the spoke tension force is essentially the same on both sides. The steeper angle (drive side) may have a higher tension, but less of it is directed in the horizontal dimension. 
End Quote<<<

So when we ride the bike and the deflection is almost the same, what is the advantage of the offset rim?????

And by the way, I am not trying to be a "Dick", I am a very nice guy. But I don't like the bike industry trying to tell us why stuff that is not really better is better such as zero stack pedals, low Q factor cranks, PF30, PF90, don't get me started.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

Back in the day asym rims cracked all the time so for us old dudes, meh. Pure guessing here but it probably puts an uneven load on the rim and creates its own weakest link. Another guess here; all the other manufacturers know this and stay away since it would make for a heavier rim except for the ones that need a gimmick to market their products. And us mtn bikers are suckers for "visible technology" (its a marketing term).


yourdaguy said:


> ...And by the way, I am not trying to be a "Dick", I am a very nice guy. But I don't like the bike industry trying to tell us why stuff that is not really better is better such as zero stack pedals, low Q factor cranks, PF30, PF90, don't get me started.


Rule #42: Pick a BB standard and be a DICK about it.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Here comes a long one . . .



yourdaguy said:


> If you can't see that a perfect arch is more efficient in material than a skewed arch, I can't help you.


Its not that I can't see it. Its that the difference is insignificantly small. I understand that an offset arch will have a slightly longer arch length than a symmetric arch. But how much longer? Using triangulation since I don't have matlab at my disposal right now, the additional length is something on the order of 0.3 to 0.4% assuming a rim with cross-section dimension similar to LB wider 29er. Now consider that the majority of the material (60%+) is actually in the main bed and sidewalls, which are unrelated to the arch symmetry, so the overall "increase" in the material for an offset rim is further reduced to 0.1 to 0.2%. This is INSIGNIFICANT compared to the primary determinants of material weight such as overall layup (or extrusion thickness if alloy), rim depth, rim width, bead vs beadless, etc.



yourdaguy said:


> You are claiming that a non-symmetric rim should have less deflection overall


Not exactly. I'm noting a well proven fact that, all else equal, higher bracing angles equate to higher lateral stiffness (less lateral deflection) and pointing out that an asym rim enables higher spoke bracing angles for the limiting flanges (drive side rear or rotor side front). This is pretty simply trigonometry.



yourdaguy said:


> and actually, if the overall bracing is similar then the non-symmetric rim should be equal on each side and the symmetric should be skewed to one side with less deflection in one direction and more in the other. This is the argument the Bill S makes for the AC design (which I like)


Virtually any bicycle wheel built to reasonable tension will have virtually equal lateral deflection to both sides. This is intuitive from the math, but it has been demonstrated empirically here:
Wheel Stiffness Test



yourdaguy said:


> So why is pushing a wheel clamped in a frame not a precise measurement?


Your fingers can consistently distinguish and record deflection differences of tenths of a mm while pressing on them with 25 pounds of force??
Lateral deflection is a legitimate measurement. But it requires a rig and high precision tools to measure, not fingers. (see URL above for an example of such a rig).



yourdaguy said:


> this bracing angle thing is way overplayed, just like zero stack pedals and Q factor.


Zero stack pedals and q-factor both deeply involve physiology that is far more complex (and different from person to person) than the simple trigonometry of spoke angles. While I share your skepticism toward those topics, I wouldn't even remotely equate them to spoke bracing angle.



yourdaguy said:


> Why does not the fact that my "exercise" that indicates almost no difference between the deflection left or right not "illustrate" my claim when building a similar wheel built to your specifications with an offset rim that would show a similar lack of difference of deflection illustrate your point?


Your exercise is an example of a known fact: that wheels don't defect with any meaningful difference from one side to another of a given wheel. Your exercise with wheel A has no direct relevance to the deflection of a second (asym) wheel B built with different bracing angles. Will wheel B also have equal deflection to both sides? Yes, of course. But will the deflection of wheel A be equal to the deflection of wheel B? NO!!

The experiment we need is a comparison in deflection of two different wheels, using rims that are identical other than the sym/asym spoke bed, and built with identical drive side spoke tension. Although that exact experiment isn't shown at Rinard's URL above, his experiments with front versus rear wheels are a suitable proxy and clearly indicate that increased bracing angles provide measurable improvement in stiffness/deflection. Math alone indicates 15-20% improvement (asym vs. sym) in deflection. Rinard's empirical front/rear tests are consistent with this (he found front/rear deflection differences of 40-60%; if you correct for the less extreme difference in sym/asym bracing angles, 15-20% is spot on).



yourdaguy said:


> So when we ride the bike and the deflection is almost the same, what is the advantage of the offset rim?????


Valid point. Its your choice to decide if ~15% improvement in deflection is meaningful to you. Just as it is my choice to decide if 0.15% increase in material mass in meaningful to me.



yourdaguy said:


> And by the way, I am not trying to be a "Dick", I am a very nice guy. But I don't like the bike industry trying to tell us why stuff that is not really better is better such as zero stack pedals, low Q factor cranks, PF30, PF90, don't get me started.


I totally do NOT think you're being d1ckish. But I'm amused that you were concerned about it! I was also concerned I sounded d1ckish. But I haven't seen any name calling, just relatively friendly (for this site) debate.  
I've had my own battles with PF30, so I share that disdain. But I don't equate it to asym spoke beds. Its not like asym spoke beds create any compatibility issues or cause creaking!

My overall point: asym spoke beds have modest but meaningful benefits, and relatively insignificant downsides. Its a rare case in cycling of getting something nearly for free. So I'm confused/frustrated that it isn't offered by LB. I'm trying to learn why. Because LB is somewhat passive and the market isn't loudly demanding it? Because of patents (though I couldn't find any after extensive searching)? Or because the rim cross section of these carbon rims begin to dominate the lateral stiffness equation to such a degree that bracing angles are playing a lesser and lesser role? My bet is the former (passive engineering & poor consumer awareness).

I can always buy the Nox rims, but at more than 2X the price, I'm hesitant. As much as I'm a fan of asym, an asym spoke bed isn't worth $200 extra per rim to me!!


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

Nice post inertia man.

You can also buy european rims. A lot of rim manufacturers are doing assymetric rims here, for example Mavic in aluminium, or DukeWheels in carbon.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

Anyone post pics of the 30mm internal rim?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

GTR-33 said:


> Anyone post pics of the 30mm internal rim?


There are a bunch of pics posted in here...if you go back to p209, I have pics of the ones I purchased from LB that are AM 30mm internal wide rims.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Note that people have different page numbers due to the configurable setting for number of posts per page. For example, this post is on page #178 for me.

Post number references work for everyone though.


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## eighty6gt (Mar 2, 2014)

LB is warrantying my rims because of the nipple bulge issue. They asked for photos and the serial #'s, I sent them, and they got back to me in 1 day.

Pretty happy about that. Hope the new ones are indestructible as advertised.


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

After going back and forth so many times that I lost count, I finally broke down and ordered a pair of LB XC hookless rims..They weren't in stock and said the lead time is 7-14 days. I guess the waiting game has begun. Of course once I lace them up, I'll have a better idea if it's a great upgrade or a headache. Fingers crossed they take extra special care building mine....


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

eighty6gt said:


> LB is warrantying my rims because of the nipple bulge issue. They asked for photos and the serial #'s, I sent them, and they got back to me in 1 day.
> Pretty happy about that. Hope the new ones are indestructible as advertised.


How old were your previous ones? I read here (this or another thread) that the listed spoke tensions are not to be followed (something like 130 to 180 kgf?). A guy was saying that as he while he was building his he could see the spoke bed deforming. I think someone else chimed in saying 100kgf was fine with his build. I personally don't trust myself to build these wheels but when I bring them to 'my wheel guy' I will certainly be telling him my concerns due to others experience so he does not follow a listed tension and damage the rim. 
Regardless, good luck. I hope you your new rim shortly (and the other does not fail). :eekster:
Mine (29er 35mm Hookless DH) should be here next week and built up shortly there after so I will post them up when finished.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

S.O.B. said:


> I personally don't trust myself to build these wheels but when I bring them to 'my wheel guy' I will certainly be telling him my concerns due to others experience so he does not follow a listed tension and damage the rim.


He should know that already.
There is no reason to build 32h wheels to that kind of tension.


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## eighty6gt (Mar 2, 2014)

I fell down out of ignorance. The scientist in me determined that high tension means a stronger wheel. I don't even need strong wheels, but I thought I'd try winding them up as an experiment - without benefit or merit, but why not see if there was some difference running 30% more tension. Seemed reasonable given the ratings of good aluminum rims. Luckily, I have the time and money for this.

Do not fear building wheels, or doing anything. It is often from experience that people like meltingfeather know what they do now.

My wheels that bulged were built in January, as far as I can determine.



S.O.B. said:


> How old were your previous ones? I read here (this or another thread) that the listed spoke tensions are not to be followed (something like 130 to 180 kgf?). A guy was saying that as he while he was building his he could see the spoke bed deforming. I think someone else chimed in saying 100kgf was fine with his build. I personally don't trust myself to build these wheels but when I bring them to 'my wheel guy' I will certainly be telling him my concerns due to others experience so he does not follow a listed tension and damage the rim.
> Regardless, good luck. I hope you your new rim shortly (and the other does not fail). :eekster:
> Mine (29er 35mm Hookless DH) should be here next week and built up shortly there after so I will post them up when finished.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Just ordered a set of the 29" bead less Carbon from eBay.
See how long it take's to get to California.
:band:


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## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

Arggh I ordered my LB 29 wide beadless on Feb 19, got the "in sanding" email on the 24th, but no shipment yet. Can't wait to get them on my FM036!


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

*It's Like Christimas!*

After several emails with questions etc. I ordered mine on February 11th. Went with the 29er 35mm DH rimes listed at 460g (+/- 15g). Received ebay notification of shipping on March 4th with a tracking number. They just arrived today (March 8th) in Auburn, CA. They weighed in at 462g and 466g respectively. Looking to have them laced and set up tubeless with 120tpi Knards and on the trail within a couple weeks. :thumbsup:


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

S.O.B. said:


> After several emails with questions etc. I ordered mine on February 11th. Went with the 29er 35mm DH rimes listed at 460g (+/- 15g). Received ebay notification of shipping on March 4th with a tracking number. They just arrived today (March 8th) in Auburn, CA. They weighed in at 462g and 466g ]
> 
> View attachment 875483


What car is that?


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

Adroit Rider said:


> What car is that?


Chevelle?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

Adroit Rider said:


> What car is that?


It's a 1946 Mercury Eight Convertible. Almost fully restored. Let me know if you want to buy it... no good place for a bike rack though :/


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

S.O.B. said:


> After several emails with questions etc. I ordered mine on February 11th. Went with the 29er 35mm DH rimes listed at 460g (+/- 15g). Received ebay notification of shipping on March 4th with a tracking number. They just arrived today (March 8th) in Auburn, CA. They weighed in at 462g and 466g respectively. Looking to have them laced and set up tubeless with 120tpi Knards and on the trail within a couple weeks. :thumbsup:
> 
> View attachment 875479
> 
> ...


Sweet mine are coming to Roseville so I hope I get them just as fast.
On eBay it estimated delivery by the 27 th of March but I doubt that.
Got to get these Chris King hub's off my desk tired of looking at them.


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

did you guys who have rims coming in the mail order spokes yet, or are you waiting to get your rims to measure first? I have a set of the 650b wide rims on order and I'm debating when to order the spokes and nipples.


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

S.O.B. said:


> After several emails with questions etc. I ordered mine on February 11th. Went with the 29er 35mm DH rimes listed at 460g (+/- 15g). Received ebay notification of shipping on March 4th with a tracking number. They just arrived today (March 8th) in Auburn, CA. They weighed in at 462g and 466g respectively. Looking to have them laced and set up tubeless with 120tpi Knards and on the trail within a couple weeks. :thumbsup:
> 
> View attachment 875479
> 
> ...


Dahhhh! I ordered 1/30 and email Katrin regularly, but keep getting excuses. The rims are in sanding, they're almost done and we'll get you a tracking number when they ship.

I thought mine would be here (AZ) and built by now. New baby next week so even if they arrive soon I'm not riding soon.

Frustrated with waiting, but glad you got your rims.

posted from my mobile device


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

brimorga said:


> did you guys who have rims coming in the mail order spokes yet, or are you waiting to get your rims to measure first? I have a set of the 650b wide rims on order and I'm debating when to order the spokes and nipples.


I'm waiting to measure first.


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## rjkowski (Oct 14, 2009)

Just for reference, I ordered my hookless 29 XC rims on January 17th. They shipped out on March 5th and They showed up at my door on March 8th. Don't forget there was a 2 week Chinese new year in between that order where the factory shut down.

The rims weighed in at 351g and 352 grams. I measured the ERD at 595mm on both, and it was the same at all 3 measurements I took on each rim.

I just placed my order for spokes. I would recommend measuring your rims before ordering spokes. Light bicycle's website states that the hookless 29 rims have an ERD of 592, so had I ordered spokes they would have been a bit short.


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

rjkowski said:


> The rims weighed in at 351g and 352 grams.


Did you request light versions?


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## rjkowski (Oct 14, 2009)

I ordered the 27mm XC version of the rims. I'm building up a set of wheels for my cyclocross/gravel grinder bike so I don't need the wide model. I ordered them with a 3k weave matte finish.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

I also waited to order spokes. Going with DT Aerolites and DT Swiss 240 hubs... then 960 gram Surly Knards (doh!).


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## leroy1010 (Aug 26, 2013)

29er 20MM depth 30 width carbon wheelset

Maybe you can have a look


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

leroy1010 said:


> 29er 20MM depth 30 width carbon wheelset
> 
> Maybe you can have a look


lol, A 23mm wide rim is being marketed as "V-KING DIY 29" Carbon Fiber Mountain Bike 20MM Clincher Carbon MTB Wheels Wheelset".

Why not market it as a 7mm rim? That makes as much sense.


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

Update and paging @brucebrown. I've been having issues with my tires blowing off LB rims. I have the 29er wide AM regular ones. I have the BruceBrown approved Bontrager rim strips/valves. I have VeeeRubber Speed R tires in size 2.4 that no one has ever heard of. I weigh 215. I want to run 35 psi. I have had at least two occasions on both the front and the rear where the tire has blown off JRA. Fortunately, usually pre or post ride in the parking lot. 2 shops mechs can find nothing wrong of course. My trouble is that there is so much new going on here, I don't know if its the tires or the rims. I can find nothing wrrong with the tims, although I am wondering if a pass of gorilla tape can't hurt on top or under the bontrager strip. Or is the tire the more likely offender.... I'd like something a little meaty, but mostly XC stuff. Any ideas? Also at this point should I be posting under the light bicycles thread ??


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dfiler said:


> lol, A 23mm wide rim is being marketed as "V-KING DIY 29" Carbon Fiber Mountain Bike 20MM Clincher Carbon MTB Wheels Wheelset".
> 
> Why not market it as a 7mm rim? That makes as much sense.


It's 30mm wide (OD) and has 20mm depth, as the specs (and the link you quoted) state. Seeing rim depth in mtb circles may confuse you a bit, but most of these manufacturers started making road rims, where depth is a common spec to see.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

It is the tires. I have 3 sets of LB 29 original rims all with Bontrager rim strips. I have run many many tires on them with never an incident of a blow off. I generally put 40 psi in them when I am seating the bead. This weekend, I was trying to mount 2 older 2.4 Racing Ralphs (they haven't made them for about a year and a half) that I bought barely used from someone in the tire swap thread. Both of them repeatedly blew off on the right side at around 30-35 psi. I am sure the cause was that the bead on one side was made too big since it was noticeably easier to get the tire on the wheel if I put the left side on first. The right side would slip on with relative ease. For further evidence that it is the bead on these 2 tires that is the problem, I also have an identical 2.4 RR that I bought new that I have mounted at least 4 times on these rims and at 40 psi that has never had this problem in any way.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

jvossman said:


> Update and paging @brucebrown. I've been having issues with my tires blowing off LB rims. I have the 29er wide AM regular ones. I have the BruceBrown approved Bontrager rim strips/valves. I have VeeeRubber Speed R tires in size 2.4 that no one has ever heard of. I weigh 215. I want to run 35 psi. I have had at least two occasions on both the front and the rear where the tire has blown off JRA. Fortunately, usually pre or post ride in the parking lot. 2 shops mechs can find nothing wrong of course. My trouble is that there is so much new going on here, I don't know if its the tires or the rims. I can find nothing wrrong with the tims, although I am wondering if a pass of gorilla tape can't hurt on top or under the bontrager strip. Or is the tire the more likely offender.... I'd like something a little meaty, but mostly XC stuff. Any ideas? Also at this point should I be posting under the light bicycles thread ??


Why do you want to run 35psi?

I have the same rims. I use Stan's tape only. I weigh 235 geared up. I use 28psi rear 20-22psi front. If I ride to the trail from my house which adds an hour and has a very very steep uphill for four miles I will put 30 psi in the rear.

Try less psi. That's my best advice. Especially if you are running it tubeless.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> It's 30mm wide (OD) and has 20mm depth, as the specs (and the link you quoted) state. Seeing rim depth in mtb circles may confuse you a bit, but most of these manufacturers started making road rims, where depth is a common spec to see.


The measurement that matters on these rims is the inner width of 23mm. Their emphasis on outer width and depth makes me trust the company less. Either they have no clue about what their customers are interested in, or they are deliberately emphasizing numbers that are, at best, useless. Quite frequently, less knowledgeable buyers are mislead by the outer width spec. And that's why the manufactures do it. Otherwise customers looking for wide rims would choose another brand which was quoting a seemingly wider width.

Lots of companies, including light-bicycle, also use outer width as their go to spec. In my opinion, they are all doing it to deliberately mislead customers.

Remember when TV and computer monitor manufactures advertised 27" screens that were actually 25.1" viewable? 21" was more like 19", etc. The loophole was that the cathode ray tubes were indeed that size. Yet it was impossible to use the entire CRT. Yep, that was equally dishonest. But everyone was doing it so everyone continued doing it. At some point it took legislation to force manufacturers to advertise screen size as the actual usable screen size.

Legislation is unlikely for bicycle specs.  But we should at least mock companies whenever they advertise products using misleading specs.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I care about inner width not outer width, but pretty much every rim I look at lists outer as the main measurement and then you have to hunt for the inner value.

I don't consider it a scam or anything underhanded. 

As long as an accurate inner measurement is available on the product page I'm happy.

It's not nearly as confusing or problematic than the variations between stated and actual tire widths.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

jvossman said:


> Update and paging @brucebrown. I've been having issues with my tires blowing off LB rims. I have the 29er wide AM regular ones. I have the BruceBrown approved Bontrager rim strips/valves. I have VeeeRubber Speed R tires in size 2.4 that no one has ever heard of. I weigh 215. I want to run 35 psi. I have had at least two occasions on both the front and the rear where the tire has blown off JRA. Fortunately, usually pre or post ride in the parking lot. 2 shops mechs can find nothing wrong of course. My trouble is that there is so much new going on here, I don't know if its the tires or the rims. I can find nothing wrrong with the tims, although I am wondering if a pass of gorilla tape can't hurt on top or under the bontrager strip. Or is the tire the more likely offender.... I'd like something a little meaty, but mostly XC stuff. Any ideas? Also at this point should I be posting under the light bicycles thread ??


It's your tires. The bead is probably stretched or broken.
35 psi is pretty high, especially in a 2.4


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

Ok, will switch the tires. Am I correct if I buy RR 2.4 new, I shouldn't have a problem? I know, everybody thinks I am crazy, but I hate the squirmy feeling I feel in the rear once I get below 30PSI. Thanks!

jv


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Not a scam? We certainly have different expectations for honesty.

As an early adopter of carbon rims, many people have come to me asking for purchasing advice for their next wheelset. They say they want a wider rim than their current rims and are looking at the cheap carbon options. Without exception, every single one of them has mistakenly used the outer width spec to compare the options currently on the market.

And that's why the carbon mountain bike rim manufacturers do it. They know the mountain biking world is moving to wider rims and thus choose to emphasize a meaningless spec that makes their rims look wider. They can somewhat justify it as a leftover from the road bike era and the era of rim brakes. Yet I doubt that's the real reason. Instead, they just don't want to make their rims look less modern (less wide) than the competition.

While they are not making factually incorrect statements, I still consider this to be a form of dishonesty.

Someday, just maybe, mountain bike rims might be advertised without the misleading outer width spec.

(but seriously, it could happen)

Edit: 

On a related topic, someone mentioned honesty/consistency in tire specs. I was happy to see maxxis resize some (all?) of their tires a couple years ago. They were previously claiming their tires were wider than they actually were. The transition to more accurate/honest specs was a bit confusing but people caught on pretty quickly.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You probably won't find new RR 2.4. They quit making them close to 2 years ago and then they made 2.35 and they quit making them about 6 months ago and the widest you can get now are 2.25. You can still find the 2.35 though.


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## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

jvossman said:


> Ok, will switch the tires. Am I correct if I buy RR 2.4 new, I shouldn't have a problem? I know, everybody thinks I am crazy, but I hate the squirmy feeling I feel in the rear once I get below 30PSI. Thanks!
> 
> jv


I run a RaRa 2.4 up front on a Light bicycles wider rim, no problem. I run a 2.24 on the back.


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## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

yourdaguy said:


> You probably won't find new RR 2.4. They quit making them close to 2 years ago and then they made 2.35 and they quit making them about 6 months ago and the widest you can get now are 2.25. You can still find the 2.35 though.


There's still some out there


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I run my RR 2.4 on the front of my full rigid SS on a LB wider rim with Bontrager strip. Over 650 miles with that combo with no issues. I liked it so well that is why I bought the other 2 from someone on the tire trade thread. I was sad to find out that they were useless because even though I generally run less than 28 PSI on the rear and 25 PSI on the front, I can't trust a tire that repeatedly blows off the rim at 30-35 psi. I am sure that it is a manufacturing problem with whatever batch these 2 tires came from, but since I am not the original purchaser, I don't really have a warranty claim with Schwalbe.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

yourdaguy said:


> I run my RR 2.4 on the front of my full rigid SS on a LB wider rim with Bontrager strip. Over 650 miles with that combo with no issues. I liked it so well that is why I bought the other 2 from someone on the tire trade thread. I was sad to find out that they were useless because even though I generally run less than 28 PSI on the rear and 25 PSI on the front, I can't trust a tire that repeatedly blows off the rim at 30-35 psi. I am sure that it is a manufacturing problem with whatever batch these 2 tires came from, but since I am not the original purchaser, I don't really have a warranty claim with Schwalbe.


That sucks! I sure would hate to think that someone here on mtbr overinflated their tires, blew them off the rim, then sold them to you.

With that said, it reminds me that I have 3 or 4 Ra Ra's I need to get rid of (never blown off a rim).


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I don't think he did that. He also sold me two Rocket Ron's (the other RR tire) and I mounted one of them and it is fine and the other looks like it has never been used. If I had any suspicion, I would have contacted him.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

That's cool. I know I usually use a compressor set to 20-25 psi to start the tire popping on to the rim, then finish it off up to 40 with a floor pump....I plan to do the same with my new 35mm (30 internal) rims. Once I accidentally had the compressor set to 50 psi and blew a RaRa of my rim. Thought about keeping it around as a backup to be used only with a tube but decided I did not want it to accidentally find it's way to someone else so I tossed it. It hurts throwing an expensive tire in the trash, but then I think of all the money I've wasted on women and booze and it suddenly does not bother me any more.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

S.O.B. said:


> but then I think of all the money I've wasted on women and booze


I disagree :nono:
"I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted."
Now I agree with that.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Wondering if I could build a set of durable tubeless 29er race wheels with these and some DT Swiss 240s Lefty front/QR rear hubs:

bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle

I'd like to consider 24h front and 28h rear. Are these carbon rims stiff enough? My racing weight is 178lbs.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

chomxxo said:


> Are these carbon rims stiff enough?


Yes!


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

nofa said:


> carbon rim? its quite expensive, around $200 to $300
> 
> i search on Amazon, found this one, quite good
> 
> ...


Look up Lightbicycle you can get two rim's shipped for $383.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

PauLCa916 said:


> Look up Lightbicycle you can get two rim's shipped for $383.


And that's dirt cheap compared to the big brands offering :thumbsup:

Now if only they would raise their price per rims a little so they can lower the initial shipping charges of $29 to make it affordable to buy bottle cages, handlebars and seat posts from them without having to pay $40 shipping for these little things would be even better.


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

Placed an order for a complete 29er AM wheelset from LB on February 27. They are currently in the sanding phase. I asked for a lighter set with the Novatec D711/712 hubs and Aero spokes. Hopefully they ship soon so I can throw them on my Niner SS.


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

David C said:


> And that's dirt cheap compared to the big brands offering :thumbsup:
> 
> Now if only they would raise their price per rims a little so they can lower the initial shipping charges of $29 to make it affordable to buy bottle cages, handlebars and seat posts from them without having to pay $40 shipping for these little things would be even better.


So I have some carbon rims shipping on Monday. Reading your post makes me think I should add a water bottle holder. There are 6 to choose from and I'm at a loss on which to get.

carbon bottle cage Light-Bicycle

I ride a Bronson and I use a camel-bak 95% of the time, but it would be nice to use it for those short rides. I'd probably throw a bottle of smart water in there For $11 and 25g it seems worth it for the convenience.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

brimorga said:


> So I have some carbon rims shipping on Monday. Reading your post makes me think I should add a water bottle holder. There are 6 to choose from and I'm at a loss on which to get.
> 
> carbon bottle cage Light-Bicycle
> 
> I ride a Bronson and I use a camel-bak 95% of the time, but it would be nice to use it for those short rides. I'd probably throw a bottle of smart water in there For $11 and 25g it seems worth it for the convenience.


I was thinking the same thing since it shouldn't add to much to the shipping now's the time I guess.
As for the price they charge for shipping I think it's a fair price seeing where it's coming from.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

3,5,6 are going to be the longest lasting. I have broken many of the other designs with thin arms supporting everything. (not LB brand, but almost exactly the same design). 6 will not prevent the bottle from possibly rubbing your frame if that is an issue (it would be for me). So that leaves 3 and 5. 3 would be easier to get the bottle out of if (as is the case with most mountain frames) you don't have much room above the cage since it grips the bottle lower so that is what I would choose. 5 would probably hold the bottle tighter/better in bouncy situations since it grips the bottle higher up and more in the middle, but it might cause problems getting the bottle out if your frame is tight. 3 or 5 depending on your situation and needs.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Did you guys see that, from what I can deduce, YaMon did end up coming out with his own rims after his deal with LB fell through? I just saw this article (First Look: Atomik Carbon Brings Affordable New Tech to Carbon Mountain Bike Rims) and it isn't that hard to connect the dots to realize we are talking about the same guy.

The rims are kind of interesting. They are kind of the "anti-hookless" rim, with a massive bead hook. He seems to think that this will add strength in the critical high impact zone. More carbon where you need it makes sense to me, however, by my eye and armchair calculations, it also looks like it could also create a kind of additional cantilever load on the sidewall, that might create a whole new kind of failure, with the hook potentially snapping off the sidewall with the right sort of impact. Basially, I am imagining a pointed rock that bottoms out into the rim well area, as opposed to a flat rock that evenly distributes the impact. He also has an "anti-vibration layer" laminated into the rim, which is kind of a neat idea. Who knows, at this point, if these deviations from the norm are beneficial or not, but I have to give him props for being willing to try something new. Measurements look pretty good...24.5mm internal.

He also has some pretty decent looking carbon bars planned, again, assuming they hold up and are adequately stiff. Light and good dimensions.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Your second post ?
I'm impressed.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

TheKaiser said:


> Did you guys see that, from what I can deduce, YaMon did end up coming out with his own rims after his deal with LB fell through? I just saw this article (First Look: Atomik Carbon Brings Affordable New Tech to Carbon Mountain Bike Rims) and it isn't that hard to connect the dots to realize we are talking about the same guy.
> 
> The rims are kind of interesting. They are kind of the "anti-hookless" rim, with a massive bead hook. He seems to think that this will add strength in the critical high impact zone. More carbon where you need it makes sense to me, however, by my eye and armchair calculations, it also looks like it could also create a kind of additional cantilever load on the sidewall, that might create a whole new kind of failure, with the hook potentially snapping off the sidewall with the right sort of impact. Basially, I am imagining a pointed rock that bottoms out into the rim well area, as opposed to a flat rock that evenly distributes the impact. He also has an "anti-vibration layer" laminated into the rim, which is kind of a neat idea. Who knows, at this point, if these deviations from the norm are beneficial or not, but I have to give him props for being willing to try something new. Measurements look pretty good...24.5mm internal.
> 
> He also has some pretty decent looking carbon bars planned, again, assuming they hold up and are adequately stiff. Light and good dimensions.


just another company with no phone number, no address, private website register info....

and while they claim to be a registered company in Florida.. searching for "atomik" on the Florida Business website of www.sunbiz.org - Home yields no results for Trademark Names, LLC's, corporations, DBA's etc...


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

That was the first thing I thought of this morning..The Jabs at LB were the dead giveway..

Like a Peanut in a Boeing Bomb.












TheKaiser said:


> Did you guys see that, from what I can deduce, YaMon did end up coming out with his own rims after his deal with LB fell through? I just saw this article...


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

PauLCa916 said:


> Your second post ?
> I'm impressed.


Thanks. This is the 3rd for 4th time I have had to re-register because my account keeps getting deleted due to long periods of disuse...original one was way back in 96'!


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

TheKaiser said:


> Did you guys see that, from what I can deduce, YaMon did end up coming out with his own rims after his deal with LB fell through? I just saw this article (First Look: Atomik Carbon Brings Affordable New Tech to Carbon Mountain Bike Rims) and it isn't that hard to connect the dots to realize we are talking about the same guy.
> 
> The rims are kind of interesting. They are kind of the "anti-hookless" rim, with a massive bead hook. He seems to think that this will add strength in the critical high impact zone. More carbon where you need it makes sense to me, however, by my eye and armchair calculations, it also looks like it could also create a kind of additional cantilever load on the sidewall, that might create a whole new kind of failure, with the hook potentially snapping off the sidewall with the right sort of impact. Basially, I am imagining a pointed rock that bottoms out into the rim well area, as opposed to a flat rock that evenly distributes the impact. He also has an "anti-vibration layer" laminated into the rim, which is kind of a neat idea. Who knows, at this point, if these deviations from the norm are beneficial or not, but I have to give him props for being willing to try something new. Measurements look pretty good...24.5mm internal.
> 
> He also has some pretty decent looking carbon bars planned, again, assuming they hold up and are adequately stiff. Light and good dimensions.


Can you clue me in on Yamon's dealings with LB. I only know Yamon as the guy who claimed anything carbon and hookless and from overseas was a disaster waiting to happen. I thought maybe he was a great public service announcer. I didn't know he had a specific axe to grind with LB, even though I suspected. Nobody makes that big a stink unless they got product to protect.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Posted by Gabriel J: "That was the first thing I thought of this morning..The Jabs at LB were the dead giveway.."



Yeah, there was also the bit about getting into carbon lacrosse sticks, which he was talking about on here a while ago, and the bit about being a founder of the Jamaica fat tire fest going with the YaMon screen name.

Again, I don't know the guy or want to dis him at all. It does appear that he is marketing an original design, and I have to give him props for that, just like Derby. It is interesting though that he was talking about how Derby was gonna get financially killed by Chinese companies knocking off his design, but I don't see any reason why this would be any different. Maybe he feels the focus on LBS distribution will differentiate the product sufficiently from the direct sales folks.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

@Slow Danger,

If you search this thread for YaMon's posts you can see it all in his words, but the jist from my memory is that he says the same thing the article on the Atomik rims says. Basically, he wanted to distribute LB in the states, marking them up a bit but offering a second level of QC and US based warranty service, which certainly seems like it could be appealing to some risk-averse people.

Then, upon further investigation, he says he found all sorts of impropriety with LB as a company, the biggest thing being that they are not properly licensed and, if memory serves, that they actually don't even have a factory as they claim to, but are simply reselling some other company's product. Again, this is from my memory of earlier posts in this thread, and I don't want to put any words in they guy's mouth. Some of it could certainly be true, but I don't see how LB could offer all of the customization options that they seem to without at least a very close relationship with the factory, even if they are legally different entities.

It was after all of that went down that he started making the claims that you mention.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I think the reason he is not too worried about copies of his design is that his design is very hard to produce. Derby's design is easy to copy because the sides of the bead hook are not actually a hook but basically flat. This design has a very large and square bead hook area that is molded into the bead hook. It will be a ***** for some low end factory to make with anything approaching low scrap rates.

YaMon's design looks like it might play really well with tubeless ready tires if you don't use the rim strip and non-tubeless ready tires if you use the Bontragger rim strip, but that is just an eyeball assessment.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

yourdaguy said:


> I think the reason he is not too worried about copies of his design is that his design is very hard to produce. Derby's design is easy to copy because the sides of the bead hook are not actually a hook but basically flat. This design has a very large and square bead hook area that is molded into the bead hook. It will be a ***** for some low end factory to make with anything approaching low scrap rates.
> 
> YaMon's design looks like it might play really well with tubeless ready tires if you don't use the rim strip and non-tubeless ready tires if you use the Bontragger rim strip, but that is just an eyeball assessment.


That is a really really good point about the difficulty in knocking off the design. I mean, ease of manufacture is the whole reason Specialized originally went hookless, although now they are getting promoted for additional reasons too. With the Atomiks having such a pronounced bead hook, it seems like it would require a lot of precision to make them consistently.

Regarding tire compatibility, I could see it going either way. On the one hand, the hook is so prominent, that I could see the bead kind of wedging under it, in which case the hook would actually be performing a tire retention function in normal circumstances. This is distinctly different from normal or minimal hooks as found on most other rims, the lack of actual function of which hookless advocates are fond of pointing out.

On the other hand, that profile is certainly not UST, nor is it the proven "tubeless friendly" type geometry that Stan's etc... use, that seems pretty forgiving of different tire types. UST for instance, uses a pretty squared off bead, with a very stiff transition from the bead to the sidewall (the bead reinforcing strip area). I could imagine that the more rigid examples of these tires might have difficulty conforming enough to press fully into the groove formed by the hook, so there could bit a bit of a gap left between bead and inner sidewall of rim. It would be interesting to leave a set of UST spec tires mounted on these babies for a bit, and then pull them off to see what kind of impression the rims left on the rubber. Also, someone on the Bikerumor thread raised the possibility of the prominent hooks overstressing the sidewalls (if this proved to be a problem, I would imagine it would pop up on light weight non-tubeless ready tires), as the sidewall will basically be required to form a 180 degree short radius turn, and in a highly stressed area no less.

Anyone out there ready to buy them, ride them hard in rocks with a variety of tires, and then report back to us?

While I am at it, I haven't seen that many ride reports on the LB hookless rims, particularly the 30mm (internal) models. With the original 23mm (internal) hooked models, we got tons of ride reports on here, including the failure reports. Has anyone had any nipple bulge problems with the hookless rims, or cracked a sidewall on them? On the positive side, has anyone really smashed them into a square edge object, like, so hard that they were sure an aluminum rim would have broken, but been surprised to find the hookless rim unscathed?

We need more guinea pig reports so that the rest of us can experience the benefits of your early adoption!


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

brimorga said:


> So I have some carbon rims shipping on Monday. Reading your post makes me think I should add a water bottle holder. There are 6 to choose from and I'm at a loss on which to get.
> 
> carbon bottle cage Light-Bicycle
> 
> I ride a Bronson and I use a camel-bak 95% of the time, but it would be nice to use it for those short rides. I'd probably throw a bottle of smart water in there For $11 and 25g it seems worth it for the convenience.


I did order 2 of the #4 design in 3k matte finish along with my wheels and they are very nice and light, but still not fragile or flexy like most fiberglass ones. I was planning to use them on my XC bike for the rides where I didn't wanted to carry water on my back, but turns out I ran out of space to install them by using a frame bag and thus not having to carry anything but water on my back and then always using my camelback anyway since it only has water now. So they are sitting in my inventory, waiting for a possible use one day. Too bad because they are really nice bottle cages.


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## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

TheKaiser said:


> We need more guinea pig reports so that the rest of us can experience the benefits of your early adoption!


I'm anxiously waiting on my LB hookless. Kartrin at LB responded to my email inquiry in a timely manner, confirming my rims are in sanding, but that the production line is overloaded. I'm assuming this was catch-up from the holiday.
Will definitely report back once I get my hands on them!


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

David C said:


> I did order 2 of the #4 design in 3k matte finish along with my wheels and they are very nice and light, but still not fragile or flexy like most fiberglass ones. I was planning to use them on my XC bike for the rides where I didn't wanted to carry water on my back, but turns out I ran out of space to install them by using a frame bag and thus not having to carry anything but water on my back and then always using my camelback anyway since it only has water now. So they are sitting in my inventory, waiting for a possible use one day. Too bad because they are really nice bottle cages.


Thanks for this! I tried to order 3 & 5 from yourdaguy's recommendation, but they didn't have any in stock in UD matte so I went with #4. Good to know I made a good choice.



RW_29 said:


> I'm anxiously waiting on my LB hookless. Kartrin at LB responded to my email inquiry in a timely manner, confirming my rims are in sanding, but that the production line is overloaded. I'm assuming this was catch-up from the holiday.
> Will definitely report back once I get my hands on them!


Funny, they told me the something yesterday. My wheels are in sanding and will do paint this weekend and ship early next week. They did tell me in April they will have an extra production line running and the lead-time will be down to 10 days instead of the 20 days they quoted me when I ordered Feb 14th.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

The fact that Atomik ignores sound marketing advice and launches a product with a campaign bringing attention to a lower cost incumbent shows his business ignorance. 

The product may be good but the strategy will fail.


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Adroit Rider said:


> The fact that Yamon ignores sound marketing advice and launches a product with a campaign bringing attention to a lower cost incumbent shows his business ignorance.
> 
> The product may be good but the strategy will fail.


Well said. To add another thing: I allready bought LB rims, but would have been interested in the Atomik design, if it were not for Yamon's blatant hate campaign.

That said, is it a fact that Yamon is affiliated to Atomik, or just speculation on this forum? No matter how strong the signals are, if they are just that, a theory based on a couple of observations and it turns out to be untrue after all, it's very sorry for this new brand.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

JeroenK said:


> Well said. To add another thing: I allready bought LB rims, but would have been interested in the Atomik design, if it were not for Yamon's blatant hate campaign.
> 
> That said, is it a fact that Yamon is affiliated to Atomik, or just speculation on this forum? No matter how strong the signals are, if they are just that, a theory based on a couple of observations and it turns out to be untrue after all, it's very sorry for this new brand.


The Bike Radar article uses the same approach as the mtbr member's earlier gorilla tactics.

I have edited my post to remove the assumption the brand and mtbr member are the same.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> The fact that Atomik ignores sound marketing advice and launches a product with a campaign bringing attention to a lower cost incumbent shows his business ignorance.
> 
> The product may be good but the strategy will fail.


I see it completely from the opposite perspective - those Atomik rims are pure marketing and will fail for that reason. I'll even predict they are vaporware - I had to check the date wasn't April 1 after I saw the Bike Radar write up.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Motivated said:


> I see it completely from the opposite perspective - those Atomik rims are pure marketing and will fail for that reason. I'll even predict they are vaporware - I had to check the date wasn't April 1 after I saw the Bike Radar write up.


I hear ya. Regardless of the launch message the product could be terrible.


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## mat g (Sep 5, 2011)

brimorga said:


> So I have some carbon rims shipping on Monday. Reading your post makes me think I should add a water bottle holder. There are 6 to choose from and I'm at a loss on which to get.
> 
> carbon bottle cage Light-Bicycle
> 
> I ride a Bronson and I use a camel-bak 95% of the time, but it would be nice to use it for those short rides. I'd probably throw a bottle of smart water in there For $11 and 25g it seems worth it for the convenience.


Just received 2 x BC03, came at 19g!!!


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

RW_29 said:


> I'm anxiously waiting on my LB hookless. Kartrin at LB responded to my email inquiry in a timely manner, confirming my rims are in sanding, but that the production line is overloaded. I'm assuming this was catch-up from the holiday.
> Will definitely report back once I get my hands on them!


Bought 3 rims from LB 59days ago and last update 10days ago was they are still on sanding.


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

Not quite the same delay for me, but I've been waiting since January 31st with the same update. I knew it would be wait, but I'm glad others can confirm the unicorn rims exist so I can stay excited. 

posted from my mobile device


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

The Chinese New Year really delays any type of manufacturing.


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## singletrackkid (Jan 15, 2007)

I ordered my set of bead hook-less rims on 2/19/14 and they are set to arrive on 3/19/14. Nancy and company gave me a 3-5 week estimate prior to order, so I can't complain at all. Sorry to hear about the delay others are experiencing...


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

jvossman said:


> Update and paging @brucebrown. I've been having issues with my tires blowing off LB rims. I have the 29er wide AM regular ones. I have the BruceBrown approved Bontrager rim strips/valves. I have VeeeRubber Speed R tires in size 2.4 that no one has ever heard of. I weigh 215. I want to run 35 psi. I have had at least two occasions on both the front and the rear where the tire has blown off JRA. Fortunately, usually pre or post ride in the parking lot. 2 shops mechs can find nothing wrong of course. My trouble is that there is so much new going on here, I don't know if its the tires or the rims. I can find nothing wrrong with the tims, although I am wondering if a pass of gorilla tape can't hurt on top or under the bontrager strip. Or is the tire the more likely offender.... I'd like something a little meaty, but mostly XC stuff. Any ideas? Also at this point should I be posting under the light bicycles thread ??


Sounds like too thick a strip and too high a pressure, and who knows what's up with the tires.

35psi on 2.4 tires tubeless is a lot, even for your weight. Try Stan's tape and 28psi, and new tires (once one is blown off, it is pretty much toast for tubeless use.)


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

I have been running my 29er LB wheels for nearly 2 years of racing and they are still straight and true.

I am in the process of building a set of their new hookless bead 29er rims.

I also have a pair of their 88mm for my fixie - one clinch one tub
26er DH wheels on my DH bike (ride whistler on it)
38mm on my CX bike

Cracked one of the 38mm CX clinchers but they warrantied it and everything else has been fine.


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

singletrackkid said:


> I ordered my set of bead hook-less rims on 2/19/14 and they are set to arrive on 3/19/14. Nancy and company gave me a 3-5 week estimate prior to order, so I can't complain at all. Sorry to hear about the delay others are experiencing...


Mine were sent after 6 weeks or so, much of the delay coming from the Chinese newyear. I had mine drilled for internal spoke nipples. No complains here either. Just have some patience.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

hehe maybe WE should have a newyear holiday like they do!


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

*Perseverance furthers*



JeroenK said:


> Mine were sent after 6 weeks or so, much of the delay coming from the Chinese newyear. I had mine drilled for internal spoke nipples. No complains here either. Just have some patience.


Ordered my rear rim replacement a week or two ago. Did the front last year and have the confidence now to go the full build.

Happy to wait in an orderly queue. So long as they keep the quality up and don't try and cut corners (they can leave that to me). :thumbsup:


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## Gee-Moment (Apr 20, 2006)

Ordered my 29er 35mm hookless rims quite a while ago and patiently waiting for them to turn up. Tho having said that just took a punt on a ground control 29 x 2.1 in the hope it will come up the size of my current 2.3" (too hopeful maybe??). How much bigger are folks tyres coming up on these?.

Also what width tubeless tape are people using with these?. Is it necessary to cover the whole of the 30mm internal width to help the tyre sit snugly or could I get away with 25mm tape?


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## Blekinge (Jan 9, 2014)

Does anyone know if you can use 25mm gorilla tape on LB 27mm Hockless rims?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Gee-Moment said:


> Ordered my 29er 35mm hookless rims quite a while ago and patiently waiting for them to turn up. Tho having said that just took a punt on a ground control 29 x 2.1 in the hope it will come up the size of my current 2.3" (too hopeful maybe??). How much bigger are folks tyres coming up on these?.
> 
> Also what width tubeless tape are people using with these?. Is it necessary to cover the whole of the 30mm internal width to help the tyre sit snugly or could I get away with 25mm tape?


My 2.1 GC on Derby rims come out to 2.22 with a digital caliper.


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

Blekinge said:


> Does anyone know if you can use 25mm gorilla tape on LB 27mm Hockless rims?


One round of the 25mm Stans tape did the job perfectly.


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

Just got an email from Kartrin. My rims are done and they are building my wheels now. They should ship tomorrow or the next day. I placed my order on February 27.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Gee-Moment said:


> Ordered my 29er 35mm hookless rims quite a while ago and patiently waiting for them to turn up. Tho having said that just took a punt on a ground control 29 x 2.1 in the hope it will come up the size of my current 2.3" (too hopeful maybe??). How much bigger are folks tyres coming up on these?.
> 
> Also what width tubeless tape are people using with these?. Is it necessary to cover the whole of the 30mm internal width to help the tyre sit snugly or could I get away with 25mm tape?


IMO, the GC 2.1 is really a 2.1. I had to get a 2.3 to match the volume of the Captain 2.2. Keep in mind, I don't measure. I go by appearance and feel. If a tire "looks" smaller than another one, I won't be able to get it out of my head even if a caliper does say they are the same.


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## Thomas (Feb 19, 2004)

I placed my order for a set of 29" am 35mm hookless rims, on the 22 January.
They arrived here in Denmark 7 days ago, they just cleared customs and arrived today 
Ordered UD Glossy.
Finish is very nice.
Weight is 418 and 430gram
Will build them with Hope Pro 2 Evo 40t,Revolution spokes and black alu nipples.
Weight will be 1656gr.
Pictures will be posted, after i build them on friday

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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

I put my order in for a pair of 28 hole Bead hook less 29 3k Gloss on March 7 th. just got email with tracking number today that they shipped.
Now let's see how long they take to get to California U.S.A


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

I do not understand how some people get theirs in a matter of weeks, while others wait ages.

Light bicycle have finally told me that they shipped mine, 62 days after I ordered them.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

And before anyone says that it has to do with what you ordered, I don't think my 29er rims are less likely to be in stock than the guy above - same except UD (which I thought was more common)


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Production runs. They produce one exact model for example 200 bead hook less 29er 3k gloss and then when stock gets low they schedule production of that model again. By the time they get produced, they are on backorder.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

sclyde2 said:


> I don't think my 29er rims are less likely to be in stock than the guy above - same except UD (which I thought was more common)


Based on my experience with cyclocross frames, the matte and gloss finishes are more prevalent, thus UD will typically take longer until demand increases.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

Thomas said:


> I placed my order for a set of 29" am 35mm hookless rims, on the 22 January.
> They arrived here in Denmark 7 days ago, they just cleared customs and arrived today
> Ordered UD Glossy.
> Finish is very nice.
> ...


Can you measure the ERD to confirm it's 589mm?
Btw, that carbon rim/aluminum nip corrosion issue is real! I'm going back to brass for my new build.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

cytoe said:


> Can you measure the ERD to confirm it's 589mm?
> Btw, that carbon rim/aluminum nip corrosion issue is real! I'm going back to brass for my new build.


Yikes!

Yeah, I pop alu nipples on aluminum wheels after about a year or two of riding them. After I pop and replace around 4 or 5 alu nipples, I figure the rest aren't far behind so I relace the wheel. I just switched to brass. IMO, the added work is not worth saving that extra 20 grams or so, Especially so, when I already dropped off 60 grams in the rim by switching to carbon. Doubly so I round off a few alu nipples with a spoke wrench if they get sticky.



sclyde2 said:


> And before anyone says that it has to do with what you ordered, I don't think my 29er rims are less likely to be in stock than the guy above - same except UD (which I thought was more common)


Yeah... what is the most common? I got the AM29er rims in 3k weave with matte finish. The 3k weave is pretty subtle with the matte finish. It doesn't look too 'carbon fibery'. Most folks that comment on my rims have been riding with me for a year or two, and say, 'Oh, you got carbon rims! When did you get those? Oh, I didn't notice!'


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

sclyde2 said:


> I do not understand how some people get theirs in a matter of weeks, while others wait ages.
> 
> Light bicycle have finally told me that they shipped mine, 62 days after I ordered them.


Any difference on lightbicycle wheelset than xmiplay? Seems like xmiplay have the wheelset on stock and ready to ship in 3 days as per the person I talked to. Just wanna know if there's a difference on them, which one is better before I go amd order it. Thanks

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## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

sclyde2 said:


> And before anyone says that it has to do with what you ordered, I don't think my 29er rims are less likely to be in stock than the guy above - same except UD (which I thought was more common)


It has to be dependent on what you order. They make a big run of certain configs, if they have your order in stock it's going right out, if not you have to get in the production line. I ordered 3k matte, and they obviously weren't in stock due to the wait. I would have thought UD matte would be the most popular, but it sounds like if you want to get your rims faster order 3k glossy, or ask what is in stock.


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## Thomas (Feb 19, 2004)

*Sv: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?*



cytoe said:


> Can you measure the ERD to confirm it's 589mm?
> Btw, that carbon rim/aluminum nip corrosion issue is real! I'm going back to brass for my new build.


Using Roger Musson way to meassure my 29" am rims 35mm hookless are 589mm erd

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## Thomas (Feb 19, 2004)

Can anybody explain why carbon rims, should corrode alu nipples???

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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

What kind of ALU nipples did you use? Were they anodized?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Thomas said:


> Can anybody explain why carbon rims, should corrode alu nipples???
> 
> Sendt fra min SM-N9005 med Tapatalk


Galvanic corrosion- Google it- plenty of info if you want.

It's also a problem in the Radio Control world.

And real Aircraft:
"Fiber-reinforced plastics are corrosion resistant, but plastics reinforced with carbon fibers can induce galvanic corrosion in attached aluminum structure." from Aero 07 - Design for Corrosion

nternational Comanche Society Report No. 040805
Page 3 of 9 4/18/2005
GALVANIC CORROSION
The ACS contains pictures of what appears to be a spinner bulkhead
contained between the engine crankshaft flange and an aluminum
fixed pitch propeller. The photos also show substantial galvanic
activity between the carbon bulkhead and the propeller mating face.
By themselves, composites are generally considered corrosion free.
However, carbon and graphite laminates can act as a cathode when
joined to metals in the presence of an electrolyte, such as moisture.
Moisture in this case can be due to rain, washing the airplane, and
most importantly, molecular moisture found in the air as a
consequence of humidity.
Composites absorb and desorb moisture in accordance with the 1D
Fick's Law. The moisture ingress is controlled by the diffusion
constant, which is a function of temperature. Unprotected composites
in contact with reactive metals should expect higher corrosion rates in
high humidity environments, such as Florida.
This corrosion problem between unprotected composites and metals
has been around for a long time, about 30 years
1
,
2
. An initial reaction
to the ACS is "everyone knows about this, so how did this happen?"
In the early 1970's, Lockheed was developing an upper stage cone
for the C4 Trident using composite fiber cloth and aluminum
honeycomb. The Navy required a 30 day salt spray test. Upon
retrieval from the test chamber, nearly all the aluminum honeycomb
was gone. This news spread quickly throughout the composites
industry, and full recognition is made that a dielectric barrier is
required between the composite laminate and mating metal structure.
The generally accepted practice is to use a layer of fiberglass in the
layup. Additional common methods include a Titanium shim, an
adhesive layer, and non-metallic high temperature primers.
1
"Environmental Effect on Epoxy Matrix Composites", G. S. Springer, ASTM STP 674, 1978, pp 291-
312.
2
"Galvanic Corrosion between Non-Metallic Composites and Metals", F. Bellucci, Corrosion, Vol


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## Gee-Moment (Apr 20, 2006)

Thanks twotone, that equates to about 56mm. My saguaro 2.2 rear on Pacenti TL28 (23mm inner dia) comes up about 56-57mm and Mountain King II 2.2 comes up at about 55-56mm on the same rim. In theory that sounds ok as I took a punt on the tyre already!. 

Amazing how a 7mm increase in dia only gives a slight increase in width though.

As has been said though it will be interesting to see how that width translates into actual volume and grip. Hopefully there will be enough cush. 

The 2.1 GC weighs 650g with some dried gunk in (so guess about 625g) which gives me a 75g saving over the Saguaro and about a 50g gain over the MK II RS (albeit for a tougher tyre) for approximately the same volume. 

Interesting info on tape widths incidentally, maybe I should take a chance on 25mm and then double wrap it if I struggle to get the tyres to air up.

Also good to hear the erd is as advertised.... especially as a deal on Revs came up and I already took a punt. Hopefully will be able to collect the rims from customs tomorrow and crack on with the build this weekend... wohoo.


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> Additional common methods include a Titanium shim, an
> adhesive layer, and non-metallic high temperature primers.


So I thought this is basically what anodized aluminum nipples do to prevent galvanic corrosion.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The stainless steel spokes pierce the anodized layer that is only a few molecules thick. Be sure to tell Meltingfinger about this. He argued relentlessly with me that this could not happen when it was brought up over a year ago.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Well that's enough proof for me.
I had one builder say that aluminum would be fine I shouldn't have any problem's.
Then when I asked the second builder he said it's better to play it safe and use brass.
So brass it is for me.


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> The stainless steel spokes pierce the anodized layer that is only a few molecules thick. Be sure to tell Meltingfinger about this. He argued relentlessly with me that this could not happen when it was brought up over a year ago.


Don't take this the wrong way, I'm trying to learn here. I have some rims on the way and I'm trying to decide if I really do need brass or DT Swiss aluminum will be enough.

Doesn't the spoke contact the nipple in the inside and the nipple contacts the rim only on the outside?

So if a spoke rubs off the anodized layer in the inside, it can still corrode from the inside out despite not touching carbon? Is that what you are saying?

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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

PauLCa916 said:


> I put my order in for a pair of 28 hole Bead hook less 29 3k Gloss on March 7 th. just got email with tracking number today that they shipped.
> Now let's see how long they take to get to California U.S.A


I ordered a pair of 32 hole hookless matte UD March 1st..Kartrin @LB said they would be finished and shipped this week..No e-mail, and it's definitely Saturday there now, so I'm hoping next week they ship.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Brimorga; I am not taking you wrong, just explaining that anodizing does not prevent galvanic corrosion in nipples because the stainless spokes break through the anodizing. The corrosion can happen between stainless and aluminum and also having all the carbon around will increase the corrosion. Also, in my opinion the nipple in direct contact with the carbon even though anodized, the potential is so strong between carbon and aluminum that I think corrosion could occur through the few molecules of anodizing.

Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just as in the illustration towards the bottom of this article where the zinc brick protects the rest of the metal under the boat, the sacrificial part does not have to be in contact with the things that are not corroding, just have a higher galvanic potential. Just like the zinc on the bottom of the boat the aluminum nipple is the sacrificial metal in the wheels since it has more galvanic potential than stainless or carbon.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Gabriel J said:


> I ordered a pair of 32 hole hookless matte UD March 1st..Kartrin @LB said they would be finished and shipped this week..No e-mail, and it's definitely Saturday there now, so I'm hoping next week they ship.


no, it is friday


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

Crap..I meant to write Friday. I'm too tired to be typing!


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

prepare to be let down. i got that "will ship before..." from them before.

hopefully you have something else to throw on in the meantime. this is my first 29er, so i don't have that luxury.


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

These ones are to re-lace my SS race wheels..I would be happy if I could get them before the 1st race of the season next month...If not, whenever they do show I'll have them for the next one.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

The best wheel builder on MTBR admits that an aluminum nipple built wheel lasts five years. He is fine with that lifespan and assumes his customers are too. 

I have worked with three wheel builders over last four years and two of them strongly encouraged brass nipples and it had nothing to do with corrosion but with ease of service. 

Lastly, what is Tom Boonen using at Paris Roubaix? I think 2013 was his first year on aluminum nipples?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Even though I knew about the risk, I went Al on my Derby rims.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Oh wait, Boonen didn't race in 2013!

More data, wheel builder dot com sells the Zipp Firecrest 303 disc build with brass nipples:

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/custom-zipp-cyclocross-disc-front-wheel.html


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

sclyde2 said:


> I do not understand how some people get theirs in a matter of weeks, while others wait ages.
> 
> Light bicycle have finally told me that they shipped mine, 62 days after I ordered them.


Same here. Hope you can get your items soon. I ordered a pair hookless 27 on Jan 18th, still no update. Some friends told me Light Bicycle makes only dozen rims each day, I think that is why we wait so long time, guys who can get the rims soon just lucky they have the rims on stock.


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

sclyde2 said:


> prepare to be let down. i got that "will ship before..." from them before.
> 
> hopefully you have something else to throw on in the meantime. this is my first 29er, so i don't have that luxury.


Wouldn't you know...Got up this morning, had an e-mail in my inbox with the tracking info for the rims. Hopefully they make it here by end of next week so that I can measure the ERD and get my spokes/nipples on order.

I'm using alloy nipples on this build fully aware of potential corrosion issues. I have the luxury of doing the work myself, so if I need to do a nipple change down the road I'm ok with it.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

I got mail too, said they´re gonna send my rims on monday.
Took risk and i have spokes for stock ERD


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> The stainless steel spokes pierce the anodized layer that is only a few molecules thick. Be sure to tell Meltingfinger about this. He argued relentlessly with me that this could not happen when it was brought up over a year ago.


You are full of ****, as usual.
Also, reading Wikipedia does not make you a corrosion expert.
IIRC you were confusing different types of corrosion and shooting terms you found through Google from the hip like you know something.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Just read my posts. You by the way claimed it could never happen.


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

I looked up some enve carbon wheels and it looks like they use aluminum nipples. I'm assuming it's safe to take the risk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

ENVE uses molded nipple holes which would tend to lower the chance of galvanic corrosion. That Said ; there are some reports of galvanic corrosion on Envy wheels.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I built up some LB wheels with AL nips. I'm in the PNW. I'll report back in two years and let you know what happened.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

brimorga said:


> What kind of ALU nipples did you use? Were they anodized?


The nips in my picture are DT ano 12mm. The wheel is at least 3 yrs old w/ a lot of miles. I build my own wheels, so not a big deal to fix...however, I also noticed a previous repair (slight crack from a pinch flat) now grew into some delamination. Hopefully my new 35mm hookless rims show up soon...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Just read my posts.


I do, which is how I know you are full of it.
For example, you just said that the anodized surface is 4-5 MOLECULES thick. Since typical anodized coatings are on the scale of micrometers, you're telling me that a molecule in the lattice of an aluminum alloy is 0.5 micrometers across?!?
I think even you can google that one.

You may have some people fooled... not me.



yourdaguy said:


> You by the way claimed it could never happen.


I did not say it could never happen, and you don't have even the basic knowledge to dialogue competently on the topic, which has never stopped you from completely making stuff up. That's unfortunate for the people who don't have enough information to see through your brazen BS.

STFU


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

brimorga said:


> I looked up some enve carbon wheels and it looks like they use aluminum nipples. I'm assuming it's safe to take the risk
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I could be wrong but I thought I read they switched to brass.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

brimorga said:


> So I thought this is basically what anodized aluminum nipples do to prevent galvanic corrosion.


The problem is that the anodized layer is super thin, like in the micron kinda scale. It's easy to scratch it off, especially where it contacts other things under pressure, like the shoulder of the nipple where it touches the rim that scrapes off when you tighten the nipple during assembly and truing.

I switched to brass. Problem solved, but with a 20 gram penalty. That is a small price to pay, considering I'm 210 pounds, and would rather spend my time riding bikes than relacing my wheels on five bikes every two years.


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> I could be wrong but I thought I read they switched to brass.


You might be right. I just looked up some wheel specs for Enve on competitive cyclist, but by no means did I do any thorough research.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

pimpbot said:


> Yikes!
> 
> Yeah, I pop alu nipples on aluminum wheels after about a year or two of riding them. After I pop and replace around 4 or 5 alu nipples, I figure the rest aren't far behind so I relace the wheel. I just switched to brass. IMO, the added work is not worth saving that extra 20 grams or so, Especially so, when I already dropped off 60 grams in the rim by switching to carbon. Doubly so I round off a few alu nipples with a spoke wrench if they get sticky.
> 
> Yeah... what is the most common? I got the AM29er rims in 3k weave with matte finish. The 3k weave is pretty subtle with the matte finish. It doesn't look too 'carbon fibery'. Most folks that comment on my rims have been riding with me for a year or two, and say, 'Oh, you got carbon rims! When did you get those? Oh, I didn't notice!'


Yeah, I choose mines in 3k matte too (26 DH rims) and they are stealth like UD but not metal looking or just plain. They blend nicely. 3k gloss is just too much bling IMO for my style, plus the clear coat points out all the imperfections and nicks/scratches over the years. Plus 3k matte is the fastest on the production line since they don't have to be painted nor do they have to lay a different wave of esthetic fiber in the end.

Also, I've decided to use brass nipples too, because in the long run they are stronger and more corrosion resistant (I ride in snow 4 months per year and only get to ride 4 other months without snow) and the added weight is offset by using undrilled rim bed thus no rim tape needed.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

My alum nips on LB rims showed signs of corrosion after a few months. Replaced with brass nips, but bike was stolen - so can't say if problem was solved. My Derby rims are built with brass nips, no corrosion yet after 3 months. My ancient Stan's rims (on my year-round commuter) built with alum nips have no corrosion. Some factors - I live where they salt the roads in winter and I didn't do a thorough job with the spoke prep on my LB wheels. Personally I'll use brass on all my builds because I'm not the greatest builder and therefore use the spoke wrench a lot - tending to damage the alum nips.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

David C said:


> is offset by using undrilled rim bed thus no rim tape needed.


Heah David, C how do you get the nipple in your wheel if the rim bed is un-drilled?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

blcman said:


> Heah David, C how do you get the nipple in your wheel if the rim bed is un-drilled?


By inserting a old derailleur cable trough the spoke hole, fish it out by the valve hole, insert nipple on it, crimp a open-ended cable crimp on the cable, pull everything back in, seat the nipple and wrap a rubber band around it to prevent it from falling back in, then push the cable back put by the valve hole to take off the crimp and back out by the nipple (if you pull the whole cable out by the valve hole, you risk of pulling the nipple back into the rim). Repeat 31 more times, then you can start lacing the first wheel. About 2-3 hours for both rims if you're very fast and 4-6 hours if you're just the normal home wrench. But it's worth not having to fuzz with rim tape ever again :thumbsup:


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

Does anyone have an actual ERD on the Light Bicycle "Hookless Carbon Super Light Weight" rims from eBay? They are 27mm outer and 22mm inner. Listed ERD is 592mm. 

I'm purchasing these for a gravel grinder build to Chris King R45 disc hubs, 32 Hole 3x and would love to figure correct spoke length ahead of time.

Based on that ERD I get a Spoke Length average of 286mm for front and rear. Buying one box of DT Comps would be great. 

Thanks!


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Was going to post almost the exact same question: I just ordered the 27 mm wide hookless rims in the AM weight (400 g) to go with Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs I already have. I used the standard info for the Hope hubs and assumed the ERD is 592 as stated. Punching the numbers into different online calculators, the lengths I came up with were either 287 L and 289 R (prowheelbuilder and Sapim) or 286 L and 287 R (wheelpro.co.uk and DT Swiss). Anybody build these rims with Hope hubs to compare notes?


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

TedS123 said:


> Was going to post almost the exact same question: I just ordered the 27 mm wide hookless rims in the AM weight (400 g) to go with Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs I already have. I used the standard info for the Hope hubs and assumed the ERD is 592 as stated. Punching the numbers into different online calculators, the lengths I came up with were either 287 L and 289 R (prowheelbuilder and Sapim) or 286 L and 287 R (wheelpro.co.uk and DT Swiss). Anybody build these rims with Hope hubs to compare notes?


Might as well disregard the prowheelbuilder calc......Wheelpro has been spot on for myself, and many others.


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

Just got a tracking number on my 12k matte AM wheelset with Novatech 711/712 hubs. I asked for lighter rims and Kartrin said they were 361g and 369g which is way lighter than I was expecting. Hopefully they'll hold up with my 180lb arse. They'll be going on my rigid single speed.


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

Rims arrived yesterday, shipped on Tuesday. 27.5 30mm internal hookless. Weight on everything at the lower end of the scale (ordered normal).


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

brimorga: Those look like 36h to me, dauummn!


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

manninen said:


> brimorga: Those look like 36h to me, dauummn!


You gave me a mini heart attack. Counted the holes and it's 32 like I ordered.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

TedS123 said:


> Was going to post almost the exact same question: I just ordered the 27 mm wide hookless rims in the AM weight (400 g) to go with Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs I already have. I used the standard info for the Hope hubs and assumed the ERD is 592 as stated. Punching the numbers into different online calculators, the lengths I came up with were either 287 L and 289 R (prowheelbuilder and Sapim) or 286 L and 287 R (wheelpro.co.uk and DT Swiss). Anybody build these rims with Hope hubs to compare notes?


Disregard the Prowheelbuilder calc- it is garbage.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks. With the wheelpro & DT calculators giving lengths only 1 mm apart, I assume it is OK to order one length for both sides? In that case, is it better to order the shorter or longer (or does it matter)?

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Generally I go with shorter-spokes stretch and too long is an unsolvable problem. Too short can be solved with longer nipples.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Actually, I guess too long can be solved if you have a local guy that can cut spokes which I don't.


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

Does anyone think I'll have any issues with the lighter LB rims I am getting at 361g & 369g? This is for a 29er wheelset on my rigid SS. I ride on mostly XC flowy singletrack but will also hit some jumps and some rocky sections. Not really sure of my riding style as this is my first fully rigid MTB (other than when I was a kid). I am 180lbs nekkid.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

No, you will not have any issues. With carbon fiber if they got all the layers in (which I am sure they did) then the lighter wheels just mean they squeezed more resin out and that has no effect on strength so enjoy the extra light wheels!


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

pucked up said:


> Yes!


There is some crazy shite being posted in this thread, lol. The company got back to me and said they recommend 32h. Stronger is always going to be safer of course, but for a light 29er carbon racing wheel under a 180lb rider, I wonder if we can do better. 28h/32h; I'd probably do that with aluminum rims. Any more opinions on the viability of 24h front/28h rear? Would love to build up the wheelset under 1300g like the Valors.


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## Polishtea (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm looking at buying a set of rims/wheels from Light bicycle and they have a few options I know nothing about and how they would affect the ride/fit of the wheelset. 

Choices are: 

Holes - 28H or 32, I assume 32 = stronger but weigh more while 28 is lighter.
Spoke: DT revolution or Pillar Aero X-TRA 1420 - I have no idea what the difference would be.
Lastly Hub choices from Hope or Novatec... I've only ever had Shimano XTs, I don't know a damn thing about either of these companies or anything about the specifics:

15mm/12*142mm15mm/QR
20mm/12*142mm
20mm/QR
QR/QR

I have no idea what any of those things mean other than I'm fairly certain 15, 12 and 20 are through axel sizes. Can someone help explain why you'd choose one or another?


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Disregard the Prowheelbuilder calc- it is garbage.


One wonders why they don't fix that, it's been crap for a long time... they must know it doesn't work.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Nels said:


> One wonders why they don't fix that, it's been crap for a long time... they must know it doesn't work.


They probably don't give a s**t... and they paid the hell out of some lawyer to write their unbelievable disclaimer, so they don't have to worry about liability.
it doesn't even use the simple math that they say it is based on... they even include a link to a wikipedia page where 3 minutes with a calculator will tell you their calculator is bogus.
:nonod:


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I'm seeing 24h rims on the front of the new Industry9 Torch wheelset, as well as announced with the Notubes Valor. Wonder what kind of spokes would be best?


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## maindog (Mar 4, 2014)

brimorga said:


> Rims arrived yesterday, shipped on Tuesday. 27.5 30mm internal hookless. Weight on everything at the lower end of the scale (ordered normal).
> 
> Have you already measure the ERD? Which hubs will you use? Thx!


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> No, you will not have any issues. With carbon fiber if they got all the layers in (which I am sure they did) then the lighter wheels just mean they squeezed more resin out and that has no effect on strength so enjoy the extra light wheels!


Awesome, thanks.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Can anyone comment on tire choice with the hookless rims? Any issues to be reported there?


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

maindog said:


> brimorga said:
> 
> 
> > Rims arrived yesterday, shipped on Tuesday. 27.5 30mm internal hookless. Weight on everything at the lower end of the scale (ordered normal).
> ...


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

Polishtea said:


> I'm looking at buying a set of rims/wheels from Light bicycle and they have a few options I know nothing about and how they would affect the ride/fit of the wheelset.
> 
> Choices are:
> 
> ...


Have been weary waiting for LB rims, I went ahead for XMiplay carbon wheelset. Peter at XMiplay really helped me a lot. They shipped my wheels in 5 days after order, excellent service and good communication. He sent me some pictures, really impressive, It is only 1.5kg for 30mm width wheelset, looking forward to receiving them

Hubs: Novatec D771/D772 15mm/142*12, XX1 cassette
Spokes: Sapim CX-Delta
Nipples: Sapim SILS Self-securing


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

received my rims yesterday, after ordering on 17th Jan. Yep, close to 70 days.

Anyway, the rims look great. Started the build of the 29" wheelset immediately. My first wheel build, so took my time.

I built with some 28H 240s straight pull hubs. Bought some cheap CN 424 spokes off ebay. Used the dtswiss calculator with 592 erd to come up with 298mm spokes (+-1mm). The rims arrived with an ERD slightly higher than stated. So the spokes are not quite reaching the flats in the nipples, but I used brass nipples (so hopefully they are strong enough). With the 27mm wide hookless LB 29" rims (360g on my scale), the wheelset came out at 1.41kg. I have only tensioned them to about 100kgf (around 15 on the park gauge), so may tighten them a bit more.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

ERD 592-594 sounds usable for my chosen spokes.

Just few minutes ago i got my tracking code, my hobbit journey has started


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Was searching for other reports on ERD for the 27 mm hookless rims, and found one measured at 595 and one at 596. So your experience seems to confirm that the ERD may be a bit higher than the stated 592.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

My wheelset arrived yesterday. LB AM 12K matte rims, Novatech 711/712 hubs, aero spokes and nipples. I ordered on February 27th and they shipped this last Friday. Weighed in at 669g front, 807g rear for 1,476g total not including valves or tape.


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## WaywardCyclist (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm looking into grabbing a pair of wide carbon rims and building them up with some DT240s or ExtraLite hubs for XC / Marathon use. A few questions:

1. What is the general consensus of the 27mm (24mm inner) hookless rim vs 35mm (30mm inner) hookless rim for XC use? The 27mm is 50-60 grams lighter per rim (so 100-120 grams lighter for the set). I also wonder if 35mm 'a bit much' for a lightweight XC bike? Or is wider better and just go with the 35mm?

2. Seems to be some supply issues currently. Is XMIPlay a better option if I don't want to wait 2-3 months? I can hold off 4 weeks but that's about as long as I'd like to wait.


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

WaywardCyclist said:


> I'm looking into grabbing a pair of wide carbon rims and building them up with some DT240s or ExtraLite hubs for XC / Marathon use. A few questions:
> 
> 1. What is the general consensus of the 27mm (24mm inner) hookless rim vs 35mm (30mm inner) hookless rim for XC use? The 27mm is 50-60 grams lighter per rim (so 100-120 grams lighter for the set). I also wonder if 35mm 'a bit much' for a lightweight XC bike? Or is wider better and just go with the 35mm?
> 
> 2. Seems to be some supply issues currently. Is XMIPlay a better option if I don't want to wait 2-3 months? I can hold off 4 weeks but that's about as long as I'd like to wait.


Can't answer your first question but I think the supply issue just had to do with the Chinese New Year. I think they got really backed up with orders and were playing catch up until now. I would expect to see more normal lead times now. Mine took less than a month to arrive for a full wheelset.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

WaywardCyclist said:


> I'm looking into grabbing a pair of wide carbon rims and building them up with some DT240s or ExtraLite hubs for XC / Marathon use. A few questions:
> 
> 1. What is the general consensus of the 27mm (24mm inner) hookless rim vs 35mm (30mm inner) hookless rim for XC use? The 27mm is 50-60 grams lighter per rim (so 100-120 grams lighter for the set). I also wonder if 35mm 'a bit much' for a lightweight XC bike? Or is wider better and just go with the 35mm?
> 
> 2. Seems to be some supply issues currently. Is XMIPlay a better option if I don't want to wait 2-3 months? I can hold off 4 weeks but that's about as long as I'd like to wait.


I was wrestling with the same question for a long time. I had hoped they would make a rim width between 27 and 35. I eventually decided to go with the 27 mm width since it is closer to what I have and seems better suited for my riding (aggressive XC to trail, some races, no big jumps). Several respected opinions still consider this to be a sweet spot for rim size (Specialized, GrannyGear on Twentynineinches.com, etc.). The 35 mm just seemed to be a bit extreme for me - the largest tire I'll ever run is probably 2.35, and I worry about exposing the sidewalls to the rocks any more than they already are.

So I just ordered a pair of the 27 mm hookless rims from LB off eBay. They quoted 12 days for fab and 4 - 7 for shipping.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

TedS123 said:


> I was wrestling with the same question for a long time. I had hoped they would make a rim width between 27 and 35. I eventually decided to go with the 27 mm width since it is closer to what I have and seems better suited for my riding (aggressive XC to trail, some races, no big jumps). Several respected opinions still consider this to be a sweet spot for rim size (Specialized, GrannyGear on Twentynineinches.com, etc.). The 35 mm just seemed to be a bit extreme for me - the largest tire I'll ever run is probably 2.35, and I worry about exposing the sidewalls to the rocks any more than they already are.
> 
> So I just ordered a pair of the 27 mm hookless rims from LB off eBay. They quoted 12 days for fab and 4 - 7 for shipping.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


Derbys would have been a good choice for you


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Been lurking for a bit, looking for info but I can't find it. Let me ask here, sorry if this is a re-post
Looking to build a set of the 650b rims onto DT swiss 240s hubs with a 3x lace of Sapim cx-rays. ANy idea of spoke length out there? THanks in advance, I know it's a noob question but I've never built a wheelset before. I'm mechanically inclined and patient so I think I have what it takes. Plus I have some friends who can help


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> Derbys would have been a good choice for you


I strongly considered the Derby's, but they are within 1 mm of the internal width of the 35 wide LB rim, plus are over $125 more per rim.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

I ordered my set of LB on March 7th and according to the tracking info they are here at my post office. 
I should get them today.
So 19 Days total that's not bad.

Edit: After posting this above.....

Got a knock at my front door @ 11:30 am P.S.T. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
It was a box from L.B. China in perfect condition rims were just packed in styrofoam.




3 K Glossy Finish.


Hub's 28 hole Chris King.



<br.
Just found out today I might get fired Friday so I guess I will wait before I order any spokes or nipples lol.


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## Mutantclover (Oct 1, 2006)

TedS123 said:


> I was wrestling with the same question for a long time. I had hoped they would make a rim width between 27 and 35. I eventually decided to go with the 27 mm width since it is closer to what I have and seems better suited for my riding (aggressive XC to trail, some races, no big jumps). Several respected opinions still consider this to be a sweet spot for rim size (Specialized, GrannyGear on Twentynineinches.com, etc.). The 35 mm just seemed to be a bit extreme for me - the largest tire I'll ever run is probably 2.35, and I worry about exposing the sidewalls to the rocks any more than they already are.
> 
> So I just ordered a pair of the 27 mm hookless rims from LB off eBay. They quoted 12 days for fab and 4 - 7 for shipping.


I echo this whole post. I have tried different rim widths with 2.25's and don't think wider is always better given a specific tire size. I think it is the tire profile, the contact patch gets too wide for either the lug pattern or the way the plies of the tire carcass are laid up. That may be inaccurate but lets just say it just doesn't feel right to me.

I may go with the 22mm internal rims in the end but wish they made some that were 24 or 25, because then it would be an easy choice. Just sticking with my Flows for now though.


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## Sevenz (Jul 17, 2009)

How long did it take to get your LB rims once they shipped? Did the tracking info they provided track the shipment all the way to your house? The reason I ask is my rims were shipped on the 19th and it does not look like they have even made it to our shores yet...Just wanted to see what every one else's experience has been...


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Sevenz said:


> How long did it take to get your LB rims once they shipped? Did the tracking info they provided track the shipment all the way to your house? The reason I ask is my rims were shipped on the 19th and it does not look like they have even made it to our shores yet...Just wanted to see what every one else's experience has been...


6 days I'm in California if that makes any difference it looks like your tracking info is stalled mine did that for a couple days then a couple days ago it updated to current time.
After mine were delivered I checked and it already showed them being delivered.
Unless yours get kept in Customs for awhile you should have them this week yours shipped a day before mine.
Did you order rims only or wheel set ?


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

Sevenz said:


> How long did it take to get your LB rims once they shipped? Did the tracking info they provided track the shipment all the way to your house? The reason I ask is my rims were shipped on the 19th and it does not look like they have even made it to our shores yet...Just wanted to see what every one else's experience has been...


Order my LB rims Feb 28th, they shipped March 20th and arrived in San Francisco on the 25th. They are now on their way to Colorado via USPS priority express:thumbsup:


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## Sevenz (Jul 17, 2009)

Hmmm...I only ordered Rims and I'm in NY...



PauLCa916 said:


> 6 days I'm in California if that makes any difference it looks like your tracking info is stalled mine did that for a couple days then a couple days ago it updated to current time.
> After mine were delivered I checked and it already showed them being delivered.
> Unless yours get kept in Customs for awhile you should have them this week yours shipped a day before mine.
> Did you order rims only or wheel set ?


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

cytoe said:


> Order my LB rims Feb 28th, they shipped March 20th and arrived in San Francisco on the 25th. They are now on their way to Colorado via USPS priority express:thumbsup:


 Ya mine got to San Francisco on the 24th and left on the 25th and they were here today but I'm less than 2 hours from SF.
So ours came over together on the same shipment how funny.


Sevenz said:


> Hmmm...I only ordered Rims and I'm in NY...


Okay then you should get yours in a couple days yours are most likely on the same shipment as ours..


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

I got my rims yesterday 03-26-2014 and ordered from eBay on 03-13-2014. 

LB Hookless 27mm outer 22mm inner. Weight was 361grams, 361 grams, 347 grams. 32 Hole. Matte UD. 

SUPER FAST. Well packed. Look great. Completely happy currenlty. Hope they build up easily. 

ERD is 594/595 claimed at 592 which adds 1mm to spoke length.

I'm ordering spokes based on 594 since I'm not sure my method of calculating is that precise. I cut two spokes to 200mm but not sure how many mm they may be off since I cut with some Park cable cutters. Using the Musson method... at least I think that's his name. Dude that does the eBook. 

Anyway, when the spokes get here I'll let you know how it goes.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

i have 286 all the way


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

manninen said:


> i have 286 all the way


That's not what your calculation says.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

but my spokes are


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

manninen said:


> i have 286 all the way


whats the reasoning you just didnt do 286 and 288?


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

trusted erd592. i think 1.8mm messing nipple will last on my spoke count


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

So, my light-bicycle built wheels came yesterday. Hope hubs, aero spokes. AM wide hookless 29er's. Took them to my local shop and tensioned them. The spoke tensions seem crazy low. Front non-disk side was reading 3-5 on the Park gauge, with most reading 4. Front disk side was reading 9-12, with most around 10. Seemed to be crazy low tension. Rear was similar. Rode around my street a little and already threw the rear out of true. Dropped them off at my wheel builder to double check and possible re-tension both wheels. Can't get recommended tensions from Light Bicycle (other than max of 180Kgf), reading that some have gone with 110-120 Kgf as their build tension. Right now, according to park spoke calc, and tensioner, my low tension is under 50 Kgf. I am a clydes, so I think high tension would be better? Should I redo them closer to 110 on the high side, and about 90 on the low??? Thanks


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes 110 would be good for a clyde on the high side.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

Clyde here. I rarely go over 110 when I build myself wheels. I shoot for 95-100

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

appleSSeed said:


> I got my rims yesterday 03-26-2014 and ordered from eBay on 03-13-2014.
> 
> LB Hookless 27mm outer 22mm inner. Weight was 361grams, 361 grams, 347 grams. 32 Hole. Matte UD.
> 
> ...


Has the rim design changed? That seems awfully small to me. IIRC, mine were 604mm ERD and I used 290-292 -ish spokes for my hubs.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

pimpbot said:


> Has the rim design changed? That seems awfully small to me. IIRC, mine were 604mm ERD and I used 290-292 -ish spokes for my hubs.


Were yours the Cross Country ?
These are the newer hook less style.
I remember when I first looked at LB rims the Cross Country were 604 ERD.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

manninen said:


> trusted erd592. i think 1.8mm messing nipple will last on my spoke count


they will be close to long enough, and the brass nipples appear to be strong enough to handle a few less threads holding the spoke in (from what i've read anyway).

any reason you went supercomps over normal comps? for your situation (too-short spokes), the reduced strength of the supercomps (i.e. smaller diameter at the threads) is exactly where you don't need it.

it might be worthwhile buying some longer nipples. the design of the longer dt-swiss nipples (i am not sure if it is their alloy or brass ones, or both) allow for shorter spokes. ie. vs 12mm nipples, the 14mm take 1mm shorter spokes, the 16mm take 2mm shorter spokes. i could upload the photo from the wheel pro wheelbuilding book (which shows cutaways of the different length dt nipples) which shows this, but i am not gonna rip off the guy that helped me so much with learning to build wheels.

Wheelbuilding book for building bicycle wheels


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

Rovershack said:


> So, my light-bicycle built wheels came yesterday. Hope hubs, aero spokes. AM wide hookless 29er's. Took them to my local shop and tensioned them. The spoke tensions seem crazy low. Front non-disk side was reading 3-5 on the Park gauge, with most reading 4. Front disk side was reading 9-12, with most around 10. Seemed to be crazy low tension. Rear was similar. Rode around my street a little and already threw the rear out of true. Dropped them off at my wheel builder to double check and possible re-tension both wheels. Can't get recommended tensions from Light Bicycle (other than max of 180Kgf), reading that some have gone with 110-120 Kgf as their build tension. Right now, according to park spoke calc, and tensioner, my low tension is under 50 Kgf. I am a clydes, so I think high tension would be better? Should I redo them closer to 110 on the high side, and about 90 on the low??? Thanks


So, my wheel builder checked them out and felt that the tension that they came with was fine. He also mentioned that they were super stiff. I took them and road a super technical trail here in Denver called Dakota Ridge, super chuck, rocky, 2-3' drops and they handled it all with no complaint. I am happy so far.


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

Also, super fast tubeless set up with NO issues at all. Ran a strip of Gorilla tape, threw in the Stan's valve stems and the seated up just fine. These are the bead hookless 35mm outer width rims.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I got mine on order with the undrilled rim bed. We'll see how the build goes, I'm expecting it to take an extra couple hours for sure


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

ok let´s cut theory at this point. ok i´ve build only 2 carbon wheel now and for me they are bit different to build than dual eyelet aluminum ones. when i get the build done i take pictures at nipples which shows where spoke are.

but NDS side is 1-2mm too short at this point and spoke shouldn´t go over the nipple

super comp was just because i´ve never done those before, first choice was alpineIII

and isn´t 1.8mm nipple stronger than 2mm?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

yeah, you'd think the nipple was stronger, but the spoke wouldn't be. i have heard stories of supercomps failing where they come out of the nipple (i.e. at the threads)


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

I take risks everyday when i woke up 

more seriously. my friend said it´s ok super comps for me, he is tough rider and has not broke any of those


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

i take risks everyday too - but try to avoid ones that there is little to no benefit of taking


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

Are these LB rims nipple holes aligned or straight? if they´re straight it could be only fault with super comps if nipple angle goes bad.









here´s picture my dt swiss rim, 32h dishless and there´s quite an angle


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## singletrackkid (Jan 15, 2007)

Nice build! I'm having my local shop build up essentially the same wheels with Hope hubs (SS rear). Here's a direct quote from Kartrin regarding suggested spoke tensions:

For the 29er rims the maximum spoke & nipple tension is 180kgf.
A. Tension for "transportation riders" (Comfortability) - 80-90kgf are ideal for regular transportation riders or exercise on a regular basis.
B. Tension for "enthusiast riders" (Balance) - 100-110kgf are good for people with enjoyful and training purpose.
C. Tension for "professional riders" (Performance) - 120-130kgf are used for riders who are expertized in riding or competition. In general, the recommended spoke tension is less than 130kgf.

Hope this helps!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

singletrackkid said:


> Nice build! I'm having my local shop build up essentially the same wheels with Hope hubs (SS rear). Here's a direct quote from Kartrin regarding suggested spoke tensions:
> 
> For the 29er rims the maximum spoke & nipple tension is 180kgf.
> A. Tension for "transportation riders" (Comfortability) - 80-90kgf are ideal for regular transportation riders or exercise on a regular basis.
> ...


So you're taking wheel building advice from them even after it's been shown several times, they don't really use 'best practices' when building a wheel?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

May I ask how you cut the Gorilla Tape to the correct width?



Rovershack said:


> Also, super fast tubeless set up with NO issues at all. Ran a strip of Gorilla tape, threw in the Stan's valve stems and the seated up just fine. These are the bead hookless 35mm outer width rims.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

RE about 5 posts ago: the Alpine 3's are probably way too heavy for a build. They are a tandem rated spoke and I built a set of LB wheels with them to be super heavy duty and I am certain that they were overkill and the wheels are heavier than they needed to be. Also, as pointed out the spoke holes are straight on the LB wheels and best practice is to put a little bit of bend in the spokes just above the nipple to help with this and bending Alpine 3's is not for sissy's.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Here is a picture of my XMIplay carbon wheel set ready to ship, have not received them yet but Peter sent me some pictures. My first set of carbon wheels, I am excited to see how well they ride.

IP-RM30 30mm wide clincher rims
Sapim Cx-Ray straight pull spokes
Sapim Alloy Nipples
Bitex BX401 Hubs (15 & 12x142 thru axles)
XD Freehub for SRAM XX1
1580g


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

yourdaguy said:


> RE about 5 posts ago: the Alpine 3's are probably way too heavy for a build. They are a tandem rated spoke and I built a set of LB wheels with them to be super heavy duty and I am certain that they were overkill and the wheels are heavier than they needed to be. Also, as pointed out the spoke holes are straight on the LB wheels and best practice is to put a little bit of bend in the spokes just above the nipple to help with this and bending Alpine 3's is not for sissy's.


Found some weight info from my archives

16- dt supercomp 88g 286mm 2-1,7-1,8
16- dt competition 102g 288mm 2-1,8-2
16- dt alpineIII 117g 290mm 2,34-1,8-2

What´s the difference actually? at least you don´t have to use spoke washers with alpineIII.
But maybe those aren´t most used spokes here, weightweenies subforum


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

manninen said:


> Found some weight info from my archives
> 
> 16- dt supercomp 88g 286mm 2-1,7-1,8
> 16- dt competition 102g 288mm 2-1,8-2
> ...


Well... the math is pretty easy, so if you compare Alpine III to S.Comps, the difference is 116g for the wheelset.
If you compare to Revolutions, the difference is 161g.
Significant, IMO.


manninen said:


> at least you don´t have to use spoke washers.


You don't have to anyway.


manninen said:


> But maybe those aren´t most used spokes here, weightweenies subforum


This is not the weightweenies forum. ut:

What would be the benefit (besides the added weight) of such an extreme overbuild?


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

I don´t know why i want to build stiff wheels


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

You all are clogging up the thread with your useless debate on nipples. I do have a relevant question: if I wanted to build a 24h front 29er wheel, would Alpine or a similar spoke be a good choice?


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

Sorry guys, it was meant to be just building specs. 
I don´t want to build 24h front disc hub wheel, but it would look nice with chris king and colored alu nipples.

https://www.reynoldscycling.com/reynolds/news/Understanding-Wheel-Dynamics-Wheel-Stiffness


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Besides the weight, another reason you might not want the Alpine 3's is that they will not fit through the holes in about half the hubs. When building a wheel, one thing you should check that most people forget is the diameter of the holes in the hubs and the diameter of the spokes. The hub holes need to be a smidge larger in order to get the bend through and you don't want the spokes to be too much smaller since that will make the wheel less durable.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

manninen said:


> Sorry guys, it was meant to be just building specs.
> I don´t want to build 24h front disc hub wheel, but it would look nice with chris king and colored alu nipples.
> 
> https://www.reynoldscycling.com/reynolds/news/Understanding-Wheel-Dynamics-Wheel-Stiffness


The numbers in that 30-second look at wheel stiffness are bogus.
Small deflection laterally and large vertically? Vertical(radial) stiffness is usually at least 10X lateral stiffness, so I guess all wheel designers, including their own have failed miserably.
Also, the percentage discussion is mostly meaningless.
If your wheel deflects 0.5 mm and you increase stiffness 40% by adding 160g to the wheel, it will now deflect 0.3mm instead. OMG!!! What an incredible difference!! 0.2mm
Go for it. Use straight gauge and 36h rims while you're at it. :nonod:


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> You all are clogging up the thread with your useless debate on nipples. I do have a relevant question: if I wanted to build a 24h front 29er wheel, would Alpine or a similar spoke be a good choice?


Useless?

Asking about spokes is useless. All wheels should be built with "dt revs or Sapim lasers".


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

I can live weight increase full amount of spokes, if 32 revos weight that 155g and alpineIII´s are 235g´s and other spokes are there between.

come on guys you are weightweenies! i sure i am, i´ve weighted all my bike parts separately


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

Just got back from dropping off my rims to be built. The builder recommended 15g DT nipples and super comps if I wanted to go aluminum as there is more aluminum left in the nipple than on the revo.

The 14g for Revos is drilled out more. If I wanted to go with Revos, he recommended I used brass.

Weight comes out to be about the same either way as well as the price (the wheel builder said they underpriced some of their spokes), but he thought he might have the super comps in stock, so I went with those.


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

*My Orer to deliver time frame*

I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.

I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

brimorga said:


> Just got back from dropping off my rims to be built. The builder recommended 15mm DT nipples for the super comps if I wanted to go aluminum.
> 
> If I wanted to go with Revos, he recommended I used brass.
> 
> Weight comes out to be about the same either way as well as the price (the wheel builder said they underpriced some of their spokes), but he thought he might have the super comps in stock, so I went with those.


Those are goofy recommendations. In the case of the 16mm (DT does not make 15mm) nipples, it's actually a bad recommendation. In the case of brass for Revos it's just nonsensical.


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

*My Order to delivery time frame*

I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.

I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were. 
View attachment 880601


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> Those are goofy recommendations. In the case of the 16mm (DT does not make 15mm) nipples, it's actually a bad recommendation.


I thought the same thing but looked it up and they have a pro lock version in 15mm. He basically said that the 15mm is stronger as it's the same hole size with more material around it to keep the nipple from breaking for a very small weight difference, 6 grams total for 64 nips. He quoted me the same price for both so I figured why not.

He's a highly rated wheel builder I got from this site, built over 2000 wheels, so I'm going to trust him on this one.

14mm vs 15mm nipple didn't seem like a big deal to me but I could be wrong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

brimorga said:


> I thought the same thing but looked it up and they have a pro lock version in 15mm.


Really?








I just looked through all their Prolock nipple specs in 4 minutes and not a one is offered in 15mm. Where did you find them? Got a link?


brimorga said:


> He basically said that the 15mm is stronger as it's the same hole size with more material around it to keep the nipple from breaking for a very small weight difference, 6 grams total for 64 nips. He quoted me the same price for both so I figured why not.


I think you mean 15 *gauge* nipples, for which this argument makes a little more sense. There is more material in the nipple, but it's because there is less material in the spoke.


brimorga said:


> He's a highly rated wheel builder I got from this site, built over 2000 wheels, so I'm going to trust him on this one.


Trusting him is a good call. With that much experience hopefully the technique is good and the communication of the facts is just a little fuzzy.



brimorga said:


> 14mm vs 15mm nipple didn't seem like a big deal to me but I could be wrong.


I'm sure it will work out.


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

Mine were shipped out on 3/21 and I haven't seen any update..What site did you use that provided you with that update screen? When I look at EMS or USPS, it has not updated since that day.



SLS1980 said:


> I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.
> 
> I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were.
> View attachment 880601


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

I used EMS @ China Courier Service Corporation, Inc.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

My rims been sent via TNT, tracking says deliverytime is next monday 31th. i don´t believe it somehow


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See the last products.

http://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Support/TECH-SPECS/Techn-specification-Nipples


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

chomxxo said:


> May I ask how you cut the Gorilla Tape to the correct width?


I have the smaller roll of Gorilla tape, it's already cut to about 2cm. Not sure on true width.


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

SLS1980 said:


> I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.
> 
> I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were.
> View attachment 880601


Once mine where in San Fran on Tuesday, cleared customs same day, and were in Denver the next day, Wednesday.


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

Gabriel J said:


> Mine were shipped out on 3/21 and I haven't seen any update..What site did you use that provided you with that update screen? When I look at EMS or USPS, it has not updated since that day.


You need to be patient. Mine shipped out with tracking on 3/15, I didn't get an update until they arrived in San Fran on 3/25. They were at my door on 3/26 in Denver.


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

Gabriel J said:


> Mine were shipped out on 3/21 and I haven't seen any update..What site did you use that provided you with that update screen? When I look at EMS or USPS, it has not updated since that day.


I've found that if you enter in the USPS site they track EMS pretty well. The site that's from pulls USPS but is from pdexpress.com. I use their app for my Android phone to update me.

posted from my mobile device


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

brimorga said:


> See the last products.
> 
> http://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Support/TECH-SPECS/Techn-specification-Nipples


Got it, thanks.
15mm nipples have no more supportive material than 14mm.
15ga nipples do, as I said.
If you're using the builder I think you are who loves S.Comps and Prolocks, the build is going to work out perfectly. :thumbsup:


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## sq225917 (Dec 28, 2008)

manninen said:


> Are these LB rims nipple holes aligned or straight? if they´re straight it could be only fault with super comps if nipple angle goes bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are straight drilled, hopefully they'll fix this at some point.


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## imhockey (Mar 15, 2014)

dhegglin said:


> View attachment 853484
> 
> 
> Here's my wheel.


...wow, graphic is the word id use to describe those hubs and rims...and i appreciate that you say "I would say.." as opposed to a one hundred percenter (though i get your true intention).

thanks


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

That looks ridden. keep up the good work
Indesructable rim does not exist


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

manninen said:


> Are these LB rims nipple holes aligned or straight? if they´re straight it could be only fault with super comps if nipple angle goes bad.
> here´s picture my dt swiss rim, 32h dishless and there´s quite an angle


Not sure exactly what you're saying, but the nipple holes are straight and it affects all spokes and nipples, not just S.Comps.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

Just got done with my first XC race with the new rims and they worked and felt great. Mine are currently built up with Roval hubs and the new beadless rims.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Triaxtremec said:


> Just got done with my first XC race with the new rims and they worked and felt great. Mine are currently built up with Roval hubs and the new beadless rims.


Cool, you mean hookless? How is tubeless working for you and with what tires?


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## singletrackkid (Jan 15, 2007)

Do nipple washers help at all? I have no wheel building knowledge, but just thought I'd ask...


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

singletrackkid said:


> Do nipple washers help at all? I have no wheel building knowledge, but just thought I'd ask...


In this case using carbon rims, it would only help if the rim bed itself was very thin (which they are not) and the tension extremely high (140+ kgf which again no ones goes over 130-135kgf usually) and if you kept on turning the nipples every other ride (which you shouldn't have to).

It used to be an issue for low spoke count aluminum road wheels, but not anymore with carbon and better alloy and building practices.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

that pictured DT rim has nipple washer and it was getting tension more quickly than other carbon rim which hasn´t got washer. only thing i got in mind that maybe nipple may sink a little bit to the rim, i could verify this to dismantle wheel and build it again. 
Picture anyone?


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

I got quote of $440.91 for two 29" 35mm downhill (460 gram) rims delivered.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

*Where did the rest of this thresd go?*

Title says it all.
But the thread just quits last week sometime now, i was reading it last night, now nothing?
https://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/icons/icon8.png
Want to find out from david c about getting these rims without drilled tire bed. No holes except valve stem.
I really like the idea of no tape, though it sounds like a PITA to get the nipples in place, sounds worth it to me.


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

SLS1980 said:


> I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.
> 
> I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were.
> View attachment 880601


Arrived yesterday.


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

SLS1980 said:


> Arrived yesterday.


I think somebody already mentioned this, but 1/31/14 was the beginning of Chinese new year. That's +15 days for your rims, plus the additional backlog from other customers, pretty much worst case scenario I'd think.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

singletrackkid said:


> Do nipple washers help at all? I have no wheel building knowledge, but just thought I'd ask...


No.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Trailice said:


> Want to find out from david c about getting these rims without drilled tire bed. No holes except valve stem.
> I really like the idea of no tape, though it sounds like a PITA to get the nipples in place, sounds worth it to me.


Hey buddy, my rims were the 26" 33mm wide and 30mm deep flavor, which you can find info on in the 26" carbon hoops thread. I just follow both threads, regardless of wheel sizes.

You simply order the rims that are deep enough to allow a 12mm nipple to flip inside the double wall and ask them not to drill the rim bed. You can also send a picture of such a rim to make sure there is no confusion. They'll probably know what you mean already, but it's always good to double-check.

Yes it's a freaking PITA to lace up, but it's worth it. Why ? Because you'll lace the wheels once (I did mines over and over 3 times due to too short of spokes and the lbs having me taking out all the nipples from a misunderstanding on their side), but then it's done. However, you'll probably change tires a few times a year (I do it twice, from winter studs to summer rubber) and not having to deal with rim tape, having a tube in to press it down, finding the right width, risking a leak from the tape when installing tight tires on, etc is a wonderful thing 

I did use brass nipples in the end, mostly because they are more durable in the long run, less likely to corrode and I'd hate to have to mess again with inserting nipples because I rounded off an alloy one or it got corroded. I do ride all winter long and thus having to deal with calcium and salt, so I didn't wanted to take a chance.

Here's the rim (26" 33mm wide) :


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

David C said:


> Yes it's a freaking PITA to lace up, but it's worth it. Why ? Because you'll lace the wheels once (I did mines over and over 3 times due to too short of spokes and the lbs having me taking out all the nipples from a misunderstanding on their side), but then it's done. However, you'll probably change tires a few times a year (I do it twice, from winter studs to summer rubber) and not having to deal with rim tape, having a tube in to press it down, finding the right width, risking a leak from the tape when installing tight tires on, etc is a wonderful thing


To each his own, but I just don't get that. It took me 60 seconds to wrap a layer of Stan's tape around my LB rim. Then another few minutes to install a tire tubeless. And done.

If I want to take the tire off I don't reapply the tape. I just pull the tire and install the new one.

I don't see any savings of time or hassle getting a rim bed that's not drilled. I just see the PITA of fishing nipples through.


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Hey David C,

Can you point me at any online guidance for nipple-fishing methods? I might give that a try on my next build.

I've always preferred "native" tubeless UST style rims, in part because there is no tape, but also because the rim profile has typically meant much easier initial tire seating/sealing. Eliminating the tire side holes will mean no tape, but I suppose the tire seating/sealing won't be any different than a yellow taped rim.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

vikb said:


> To each his own, but I just don't get that. It took me 60 seconds to wrap a layer of Stan's tape around my LB rim. Then another few minutes to install a tire tubeless. And done.
> 
> If I want to take the tire off I don't reapply the tape. I just pull the tire and install the new one.
> 
> I don't see any savings of time or hassle getting a rim bed that's not drilled. I just see the PITA of fishing nipples through.


100% agree.
I tape once in ~5 minutes and done. Seals first time, every time. Not having to worry about tape width is a kind of hilarious reason, but like vik said, to each his own. :thumbsup:
The only sealing issues I've seen have been at the valve hole... nothing to do with tape.
Doing it multiple times on one wheelset is commitment, that's for sure.
What happens if you break a spoke? :eekster:


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

InertiaMan said:


> Can you point me at any online guidance for nipple-fishing methods?


I recommend tequila and ice cubes


----------



## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

chomxxo said:


> Cool, you mean hookless? How is tubeless working for you and with what tires?


Hookless sorry currently specialized fast tracks tubeless set up


----------



## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

*Where did the rest of this thresd go?*

Where did the last two weeks of this thread go?
David c did you order rims from LB without rim bed holes?
That sounds like a total freaking genius, I am thinking there is no downside to this except getting 72-82 nipples fished in. Sounds like a total PITA, but worth it IMHO


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> 100% agree.
> I tape once in ~5 minutes and done. Seals first time, every time. Not having to worry about tape width is a kind of hilarious reason, but like vik said, to each his own. :thumbsup:
> The only sealing issues I've seen have been at the valve hole... nothing to do with tape.
> Doing it multiple times on one wheelset is commitment, that's for sure.
> What happens if you break a spoke? :eekster:


Of course for a pro like you, nothing ever goes wrong. But for the rest of us, it's just one less thing that can go wrong on our bikes. I would quote every single post in this thread asking about which rim tape width to use, which rim tape to use, which rim strip to use, etc, but that be worthless coz these people are not to your "standards" obviously.

And if you break a spoke, you simply take it out of the hub, take it out of the nipple, side a new one in the hub and thread it into the nipple. At your expertise level, I'm surprised to see you asking about such a basic repair. Glad I could help.

:thumbsup:


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

InertiaMan said:


> Hey David C,
> 
> Can you point me at any online guidance for nipple-fishing methods? I might give that a try on my next build.
> 
> I've always preferred "native" tubeless UST style rims, in part because there is no tape, but also because the rim profile has typically meant much easier initial tire seating/sealing. Eliminating the tire side holes will mean no tape, but I suppose the tire seating/sealing won't be any different than a yellow taped rim.


I would not advise to google up "nipple fishing" as you might not get the expected search results, but I would invite you to browse the last pages of the 26" am carbon rims thread where I explain in details how I did mines.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Trailice said:


> Where did the last two weeks of this thread go?
> David c did you order rims from LB without rim bed holes?
> That sounds like a total freaking genius, I am thinking there is no downside to this except getting 72-82 nipples fished in. Sounds like a total PITA, but worth it IMHO


Yes, I did order my rims from LB without rim bed holes. Like I said, to me it's simply one less thing that can go wrong or to worry about. Others might not find it worth, but most of them also never bothered actually owning wheels with undrilled rim bed. I laced my own and I'm running tubeless DIY studded tires standard folding, not tubeless ready tites) with home-brew sealant and since I had the choice, I decided I won't have to deal with rim tape on this wheelset at all (lighter and cheaper too).

I have no idea about missing posts in this thread. Everything seems to be fine on my side.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Does not look like any of those would hold a full 1 ltr bottle through a rock garden to me.
That said I will probably get one with my rim order.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Ok I really did look but, I am assuming you were able to get undrilled rims from LB?
Yeah I don't get the downside to this if you use brass nipples.
Tape is messy, especially gorilla or mastic.
Real genius I say.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

I am just a noob here(actually since 2000!!) on the forums, always been a lurker. My bad with the thread loss.
It has turned to mash potatoes here so winter riding season is over here.
Thanks for the GREAT idea.
I do wonder if it really saves much weight, how much material is drilled out compared with the weight of the tape.
I personally could care less about weight.
I do care about a mechanical failure 9 miles from the nearest jeep rd though.
It just goes well with my riding philosophy, Less parts, Less to break, Less walking= more fun.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Trailice said:


> Ok I really did look but, I am assuming you were able to get undrilled rims from LB?
> Yeah I don't get the downside to this if you use brass nipples.
> Tape is messy, especially gorilla or mastic.
> Real genius I say.


Yes, they don't show it as an option when ordering, but instead of using the order form, shout them an email with your full order and specs (aka rim width, finish, hole count, undrilled bed, etc) and they'll reply you to confirm and give you the final price including shipping and paypal fees, then you confirm it's good with you and ask them to send you the paypal bill and you're all set.

I did order the bottle cage n°04 model, looks to be the most sturdy of all and honestly if you're shredding rock gardens, you'd be having a hydration pack to sip water from and just strap down the bottle and use it to fill back the water bladder in your pack when it's empty.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Does not look like any of those would hold a full 1 ltr bottle through a rock garden to me.
That said I will probably get one with my rim order.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

I was a messenger for ten+ years. My shoulders DO NOT like packs any more.
I will do 50 mile backcountry trips with one 1ltr bottle and refill out of high country stream.
Camelbacks have there place, other peoples backs! 
Just being funny. But I really do use a ball bungee or velcro ski strap around the bottle and frame. Guess I need to find a better cage, current one is solid cro-mo and apparently not strong enough.
And I did bend that puppy in hard towards the frame, so hard you have to bend it to get the bottle in.
But for $11 #04 should be cool for the bling factor on my sons bike.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Trailice said:


> Title says it all.
> But the thread just quits last week sometime now, i was reading it last night, now nothing?
> https://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/icons/icon8.png
> Want to find out from david c about getting these rims without drilled tire bed. No holes except valve stem.
> I really like the idea of no tape, though it sounds like a PITA to get the nipples in place, sounds worth it to me.


I ordered a set this way last week. Katrin emailed me back, and from what I can tell they understood my request perfectly. I also attached a picture of a Haven Carbon rim to illustrate what I meant, as they use an undrilled bed. Only time will tell... Thanks again to DavidC for the tips and advice on the UST-ready rim idea!!!!


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

David C...you seem like a great guy and a good member here. There is something that has been driving me crazy for a long time now.................It's "mine". Not "mines".


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Haha, thanks getthocop, I'll try to pay attention to that one too. English is my second language, so my apologizes for butchering these threads every now and then.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

singletrackkid said:


> Do nipple washers help at all? I have no wheel building knowledge, but just thought I'd ask...


THey might... if you can get them in there. I bought some nipple washers and ended up not using them. It was going to be a massive PITA to install them. I would have had to stick them in the valve stem hole and rattle them around the inside of the rim until they got to the target spoke hole, then hold them with a dental pick while I poked a spoke and nipple through it... that is, if I was lucky enough not to get it stuck inside the rim cavity.

In the end, it wasn't worth it. I built the wheels without them and they've been flawless for a year and a half. So... up to do, but I don't think it would have been worth the hassle... IMHO.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> THey might... if you can get them in there. I bought some nipple washers and ended up not using them. It was going to be a massive PITA to install them. I would have had to stick them in the valve stem hole and rattle them around the inside of the rim until they got to the target spoke hole, then hold them with a dental pick while I poked a spoke and nipple through it... that is, if I was lucky enough not to get it stuck inside the rim cavity.
> 
> In the end, it wasn't worth it. I built the wheels without them and they've been flawless for a year and a half. So... up to do, but I don't think it would have been worth the hassle... IMHO.


I tried using them (washers) but was having a hard time getting them in the hole, so I stopped. Then I was having a hard time getting the nipple in the hole to line it up with the spoke. 
I finally figured out that using an old spoke and partaily threading a nipple backward and then sticking it thru the hole to line it up to the spoke.
I assume I could have put a washer on the nipple first and then put it into the wheel.


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

I'm thinking of getting the Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs for my setup. I understand they're convertible from one axle type to another.

Does it matter what type I get initially? I can't find any indication that it does, but just wanted to confirm. I currently need a QR rear axle. But it seems like more and more bikes have the 12mm thru axle, so it would be nice to just buy the conversion kit if I need it and bring the wheels with me to my next bike.

Also, can anyone give me a ballpark cost of what I should be paying to have a wheel built in the states? I'm in Dallas, Texas. Does it differ for a front vs a rear?


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

I just had wheels built, 80 for the set.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Lbs usually charge about $30 per wheel to lace up and tension from the ground up. Assuming you have all the parts on hand already. Some may charge more and include a life-time or limited time free wheel true for the original owner, some may offer better built quality, etc.


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

Thanks. That seems quite reasonable.

Now trying to parse the info on spokes. I thought one size might be enough, but it seems people talk about using 3 sizes. More complex than I anticipated. Maybe I should let the builder sort that out.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You should let the builder sort that out!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

yourdaguy said:


> You should let the builder sort that out!


I give my wheel builder the rims and hubs I want to use and let him source the spokes and nipples based on a discussion of what should be used.

That way he gets input on a critical part of the process that will affect his build and he can ensure things will work out well.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

vikb said:


> I give my wheel builder the rims and hubs I want to use and let him source the spokes and nipples based on a discussion of what should be used.
> 
> That way he gets input on a critical part of the process that will affect his build and he can ensure things will work out well.


Seems like the best way to do it

Posted via mobile


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

Cool, that helps a lot. Thank you all very much!


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for those who have replied to my issues with my light bicycle wheels, bontrager tubeless and Vee Rubber tires. DId the windex trick to determine that air was leaking from the valve. Replaced bontrager tubeless valve with stans. Slowed down leak but did not eliminate. Really cranked down on the valve "donut" but still did not eliminate. Shot it with some spray on sealant. Seemed to stop but next morning flat. Also switched tire (Maxxis Ikon). Going to try stans tape and yet another new stans valve. WIsh me luck!


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## Bike Therapy (Jul 12, 2013)

I probably should have asked this question before I ordered... Has anyone here ordered a complete build wheel set from LB have received the wheels untrue? Even slightly untrue? I ordered a 33 mm Wide wheel set with hope evo 2 40T hubs and pillar Aero X-tra 1420 spokes. Id like to see if they do a good job sending out trued wheels and not half assed builds. Thanks


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## ASiameseCat (Aug 21, 2011)

jvossman said:


> Thanks for those who have replied to my issues with my light bicycle wheels, bontrager tubeless and Vee Rubber tires. DId the windex trick to determine that air was leaking from the valve. Replaced bontrager tubeless valve with stans. Slowed down leak but did not eliminate. Really cranked down on the valve "donut" but still did not eliminate. Shot it with some spray on sealant. Seemed to stop but next morning flat. Also switched tire (Maxxis Ikon). Going to try stans tape and yet another new stans valve. WIsh me luck!


If the tubeless tape on the wheel isn't covering all the spoke holes on the wheel the air will leak out from the valve stem. You shouldn't have to crank down on the valve nut, only hand tighten. To fix, you have to rip off the old tape and apply a new layer of tape on the correct way.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

This is the exact reason i am getting mine with a un-drilled rim bed.
david c has a whole thing on how to get the nipples in place, like fishing electrical wires.
I have had this same problem before, I finally used tape made for sealing osb(oriented strand board) roof decking. That stuff is way better than gorilla tape.
I do have a couple of the stans half tube things that would work better for clean up but why put in a third or half a tube when you don' even need tape if they are un-drilled.
Seems like a win-win except for the 2-3 hours to fish 72 nipples.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

ASiameseCat great post. I was wondering how after he tightened the valve stem really tight there could still be such leakage. I never saw the big picture that any spoke hole that leaks will get into the space between the bead area and the spoke bed and the only way out is the valve stem and the spoke holes/nipples. Although, I have to think that most of the time, it would leak out around the nipples, but if the builder used grease on the nipple seats the point of leas resistance would be the valve stem.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jvossman said:


> Thanks for those who have replied to my issues with my light bicycle wheels, bontrager tubeless and Vee Rubber tires. DId the windex trick to determine that air was leaking from the valve. Replaced bontrager tubeless valve with stans. Slowed down leak but did not eliminate. Really cranked down on the valve "donut" but still did not eliminate. Shot it with some spray on sealant. Seemed to stop but next morning flat. Also switched tire (Maxxis Ikon). Going to try stans tape and yet another new stans valve. WIsh me luck!


The valve stem needs to seat properly on the drilled out valve hole to seal properly.

I've had exactly the same issue you did with slow leak I couldn't seal [not a LB rim].

Make sure you clean the tape out of the valve stem hole - use a round file.

Then look at the rubber gasket around the valve stem and your valve stem hole. How do they fit together?

On my leaking rims with an older style of Stan's stems I needed to drill the inner part of the valve stem hole a bit to allow the valve stem to seal properly. Once I did that I don't lose air for weeks at a time.

On my LB rims with a newer style of Stans valve stem I just needed to clean the tape out of the hole and it sealed right up no issues at all and hasn't lost air in over a week.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Just got this from LB
"For 29er 35mm wide rims DH version, it is 460g+/-15, USD187/pcs.
It is ok to manufacture this rim without spoke holes on rim bed, but it is should be not deep enough for nipples to go throught inside.
We only manufacture 26er 33mm wide &30mm deep rims without spoke holes on rim bed for customers. So, 29er 35mm wide &25mm deep rim, we do not suggest."


Thanks,
Nancy

What am I not getting here, i mean there is plenty of room for the nipples inside the rim,
It looks to be around 14mm, and the nipples even if they are 16mm would slide in at an angle.
Can someone smarter than me chime in here.
david c your my undrilled rim bed guru, what do you think?
Worst case scenario is I have to drill out the holes myself.
I really want to get these rims ordered, I just saw some bare ground yesterday, but I still got 2+ ft of snow on my trails.
Thanks


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

Just received my 27mm hookless and weights are 339 and 349.
33mm 26er is 355g

front 698g rear 855g which is 1553g total


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Trailice said:


> Just got this from LB
> "For 29er 35mm wide rims DH version, it is 460g+/-15, USD187/pcs.
> It is ok to manufacture this rim without spoke holes on rim bed, but it is should be not deep enough for nipples to go throught inside.
> We only manufacture 26er 33mm wide &30mm deep rims without spoke holes on rim bed for customers. So, 29er 35mm wide &25mm deep rim, we do not suggest."
> ...


Look up the rim profile on the cross section drawing. It needs to be at least 12mm or more clearance between the nipple rim bed and tire rim bed. I'm not sure if the rims you're ordering are deep enough, I haven't checked the specs of the 29er rims lately. If you could find the cross section drawing of the rim, I would be able to tell you if they are deep enough to handle a 12mm nipple or not.

Edit. I've looked up the new hookless 27mm wide 29er rim and you have less than 14mm clearance, so I wouldn't advise to go with undrilled rim bed right now, you won't have enough room to flip the nipple properly, or you probably have a very hard time flipping them, simply because the nipple hole in the rim is a snug fit and the nipple won't go trough unless it's perfectly aligned and straight. My rims had 18mm of clearance and with 12mm nipples, it wasn't easy for many of them to flip using the derailleur cable technique. I'd suggest you check with them if they will come out with a similar profile of the 26" one, but in 29". Or if they can confirm the exact clearance so you can decide if it's worth it or not. If you can figure out a way to make the 12mm nipple flip inside a 14mm cavity, go for it. If not, you're signing up for a world of headaches.

Worst worst worst case, just put 26" wheels on your bike


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

My 27mm hookless rims showed up today..Well I picked them up today. The shipping label was 100% correct, yet the USPS managed to send them to 2 Post Offices and then back to the distribution center 25mi from my house. After waiting 45min at my post office, they finally located them. I was less than pleased. I plan to lace them up ASAP so that I can test them out before my first race next weekend, and didn't want them to dick around with them anymore than they had. 

Ordered March 1st, arrived April 1st. Out of box they look great, 32h UD matte finish. Weights were 443 and 462, so on par and slightly lower than advertised. I'll use the "heavier" rim for the rear wheel. Measured the ERD on 3 spots each rim, 596. Larger than the listed 592, so spoke length changed around 1mm. Keep that in mind for anyone ordering spokes before rims..

I'll post some pics this weekend. 

-Gabe


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Oh bummer. Y
ou might be right the interior width is not as tall as the 26" 30mm as opposed to 25mm for the 29"
What do you think 14mm or 13.?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Trailice said:


> Oh bummer. Y
> ou might be right the interior width is not as tall as the 26" 30mm as opposed to 25mm for the 29"
> What do you think 14mm or 13.?


Doing the following maths from the drawing you posted, I get 13.5mm of max clearance, most likely to be less than 13mm actually.

OD of 633 minus ERD of 589 equals 44mm, divided by two to make it radius instead of diameter, so 22mm from the ERD to OD, then minus 8.5mm equals 13.5mm, which is the height of the inner cavity of the rim. However, this doesn't account for the thickness of the middle wall, so I'd say you should remove another 1mm or so, which brings us down to 12.5mm at best. Sorry buddy.

No shame about riding 26" wheels though.


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## jamtheman (Nov 24, 2013)

Carbon wheels from LB. Got the wheels in Nov 2013, and got the bike in July 2013. Wheels built with Hope pro 2 evo (24t sadly, didnt know about 40t at the time), DT Alpine 3 spokes, and Red Nipples provided by LB.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Thanks, that figured that out. Glad there are smart people on the interwebs.
I am probably not the first person to ask LB for undrilled rim beds in the 35mm wide 29" 
I do ride downhill so 26" is all groovey too with me.
These are for my back country/glades/enduro one speed bike.
Oh they joy of riding sans trail.
My current velocity blunts are just hilarous, after half a season.
They are roundish, no bad flat spots, but wobble between almost every spoke.
Just cant be trued, I even made a crazy jig to attempt to re-straighten them to no avail.
They work fine and in actual use and are rideable for now.
But this will the downhill version 460grams+/- 
I will be using surly uber super new hubs with alpine III spokes.
I am a anti weight weenie or this better not break way the hell out here kinda rider.
I was seriously contemplating the sun mtx33, but with chunky monkeys your getting close to 2.5 kilos per wheel.
These will keep it under 2K per wheel and just as rugged i hope.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

Yes, they are 596erd so i'm not gonna use my chosen spokes. Gonna sell those super comps and maybe go for alpine3's
On 26 wheel on spoke set there were six too short spokes so april 1st wasn't good day for me


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Why alpine 3's on xc bikes,
The only reason I am using them is well, they break sticks better than supercomps.
Why get a xc light rim and put tandem spokes on it?
Kind of defeats the purpose imho.
Sorry about that 596 erd that sucks.
And 6 short spokes sound weird to me.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Manninen,

Not sure if you figured out the cause of your 6 too short spokes yet, but if not, here is a thread on WW discussing several possible causes of that issue: Wheelbuilding - Every 5th spoke too short... - Weight Weenies

I hope it proves helpful.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

no

246mm 30pc
242mm 6pc

just sold me wrong spokes, could be whole stock wrong in that company


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## davosaurusrex (Sep 23, 2005)

Just ordered a pair of 29er hookless, going to have them built up on hope pro 2 evos. What spokes are folks running with these? Got supercomp on my e13 trs (destroyed the rear rim at the weekend hence the move to these), been happy with them and thinking of going for the same again, anything else I should be considering? Also are all brass nipples much of a muchness, if not what's good?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

vikb said:


> To each his own, but I just don't get that. It took me 60 seconds to wrap a layer of Stan's tape around my LB rim. Then another few minutes to install a tire tubeless. And done.
> 
> If I want to take the tire off I don't reapply the tape. I just pull the tire and install the new one.
> 
> I don't see any savings of time or hassle getting a rim bed that's not drilled. I just see the PITA of fishing nipples through.


Seems to me that it's an even more massive of a PITA. In my case, I've only broken straight gauge spokes... oh, and S-bend bladed bike spokes. Those things suck big rocks through a garden hose, I tell ya. I've only broken nipples since only using double butted spokes in my builds.

During a ride if I broke a nipple, I'd say to my self, 'Oh, dangit. I'll have to fix that when I get home.' 15 Minute fix, and back on the trail like it never happened. If I broke a nipple and had to thread it through the whole gawdang rim, I would be swearing up a storm, dreading the hour or two of fixing that nightmare.

So, while a no-hole tire bed is sexy as heck, I would just say no.


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

HI gang. By the way if the moderator feels that my questions are better served on the tire/wheel forum rather than this long chinese rim thread, let me know.

Ok, so pulled tires out. Cleaned out all the gunk. Especially at the valve hole Made sure bontrager strips were on correctly (heck even swapped them with each other for good luck) and put new tires on the rims. Double checked to make sure the stand no tube valves were sitting correctly on the strip. The results were: 

Now both wheels leak at the valve holes.
One of the new tires leaks along the seal.

At this point my options are..
a) go back to the bontrager valve stems (maybe buy new)
b) redo everything with stans (despite what BBrown says).

My concern with just using stans tape is that iss doesn't have the little beads that the bontrager and the old stans strips had. Should i be worried that the tires wont have anything to hook into? (They are maxxis icons if that makes a difference).

a) Now


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

I have 350K miles on bikes and have NEVER broken a brass nipple.
I have pulled through spokes right out of the rim more than a couple of times, had them snap in half, way too many breaks at the J-bend, I have had armadillos, porcupines and pigeons run square into wheels, as well as a t-shirt and a couple thousand sticks.
I have tacoed mtx 33s,single tracks and all sorts of mavics in 26".
If I had had one broken nipple in that time I would not consider a undrilled tire bed.
But I never have broken a brass nipple.
How do nipples break? 
Too much tension or what?


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## Mutantclover (Oct 1, 2006)

Trailice: You could always file down 1 mm from each nipple to ensure they fit. I am being half-serious here. You wouldn't lose any of the threaded part, and you would only lose maybe 20% of your wrench flats which would still be fine on a brass nipple. Especially if you used a Park SW-40 for final tensioning. Those things are really really snug on the nipple.

Obviously it would add to the PITA of the whole process, but imagine the satisfaction of being done with it after


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## Mutantclover (Oct 1, 2006)

BTW, Mavic claims 4x the fatigue life on their "Fore" drilled alloy rims because one of the rim walls is uninterrupted by holes. How this would translate to composite, I don't know. Just throwing it out there.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

pimpbot said:


> Seems to me that it's an even more massive of a PITA. In my case, I've only broken straight gauge spokes... oh, and S-bend bladed bike spokes. Those things suck big rocks through a garden hose, I tell ya. I've only broken nipples since only using double butted spokes in my builds.
> 
> During a ride if I broke a nipple, I'd say to my self, 'Oh, dangit. I'll have to fix that when I get home.' 15 Minute fix, and back on the trail like it never happened. If I broke a nipple and had to thread it through the whole gawdang rim, I would be swearing up a storm, dreading the hour or two of fixing that nightmare.
> 
> So, while a no-hole tire bed is sexy as heck, I would just say no.


Lol, I'd easily imagine you spending over an hour trying to fish in a single nipple, since obviously you have no clues on what you're talking about.

3 minutes top is what it'll take you if the nipple to be replaced is the one further away from the valve hole. 30 seconds or less for the 6~8 closest nipples and between a minute or two for all the others. The only difference would be not having to redo your rim tape setup or in the case of using the gorilla tape with an old inner tube valve, you wouldn't have to also retape the valve. In both cases, you'd still need to pluck the valve out anyway, unless your setup has the valve independent from the tape.

In the end, it's only gonna take you 3 minutes more to do the job if you have undrilled vs drilled. You'll still have to take the tire off, clean the sealant, take the tape/valve out, shake the old nipple out of there, get the new lube nipple in, etc. No big deal.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I for one do not believe all the spewing of the marketing department of Mavic. Most people will tell you that if you finish the holes property there will be no stress risers and that will lead to longer life. I think Mavic is possibly using poor quality drilled wheels to make their expensive products look better.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Mutantclover said:


> BTW, Mavic claims 4x the fatigue life on their "Fore" drilled alloy rims because one of the rim walls is uninterrupted by holes. How this would translate to composite, I don't know. Just throwing it out there.


Uncut fiber is stronger than perforated fiber. Pretty basic science right here.

However, it wouldn't make much of a difference since the fiber being perforated in this case isn't the one dealing with much of the rim strength. So it's negligible. Using internal nipples does make the rim stronger as the nipple hole is only 2~3mm ø vs regular nipples that requires a 4~5mm ø hole. The internal nipples also distribute their load on a larger area than the standard nipples would, making the overall rim stronger and more durable. Cons are no wheel tuning with tires on and you can go undrilled, but pros are a stronger wheel and less chance to round off a nipple and a cleaner look.

So many ways to enjoy your new wheels


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

David C said:


> Lol, I'd easily imagine you spending over an hour trying to fish in a single nipple, since obviously you have no clues on what you're talking about.
> 
> 3 minutes top is what it'll take you if the nipple to be replaced is the one further away from the valve hole. 30 seconds or less for the 6~8 closest nipples and between a minute or two for all the others. The only difference would be not having to redo your rim tape setup or in the case of using the gorilla tape with an old inner tube valve, you wouldn't have to also retape the valve. In both cases, you'd still need to pluck the valve out anyway, unless your setup has the valve independent from the tape.
> 
> In the end, it's only gonna take you 3 minutes more to do the job if you have undrilled vs drilled. You'll still have to take the tire off, clean the sealant, take the tape/valve out, shake the old nipple out of there, get the new lube nipple in, etc. No big deal.


My main reason for choosing undrilled is to save the weight of a rim strip. Extra unneeded rotating mass.


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

max_lombardy said:


> My main reason for choosing undrilled is to save the weight of a rim strip. Extra unneeded rotating mass.


do you have any idea how inconsequential that "rotating mass" is?

Analytic Cycling, Interactive Methods for Estimating Cycling Performance Parameters. Tom Compton


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

My whole point on this undrilled tire bed thing is the good old K.I.S.S theory.
If your wheel don't work who cares what it weighs?
I need a big wheels for what the bike's intended use is, rotating mass has that beautiful gyroscopic effect while not in contact with the ground, and simply rolls over things easier.
The trick is to not have to regain momentum.
My races wheels are light enough to scare me, and they ain't too light either.
I have folded too many wheels to have that happen again (broken chains as well).
I do not use equipment so much as abuse it.
Ride it like it is stolen or a mamma moose is chasing me!
Filing nipples sound interesting, it might work.
I will have to contemplate that idea.
I do want to order these soonley, my woods might be dry in a month, and a 15-20 day lead time on UD matte downhill 29" rims from LB.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Trailice said:


> My whole point on this undrilled tire bed thing is the good old K.I.S.S theory.


Fishing nipples through a rim doesn't qualify as simple to me.
Tape? Simple as pie.


Trailice said:


> If your wheel don't work who cares what it weighs?


How many people have problems with tape?


Trailice said:


> I need a big wheels for what the bike's intended use is, rotating mass has that beautiful gyroscopic effect while not in contact with the ground, and simply rolls over things easier.
> The trick is to not have to regain momentum.
> My races wheels are light enough to scare me, and they ain't too light either.
> I have folded too many wheels to have that happen again (broken chains as well).
> ...


huh? :crazy:


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> How many people have problems with tape?


maybe you didn't notice, but there's a poor guy who's living a nightmare trying to get rid of the airs leaks on his new wheels. He just posted in this thread, yet, you ignored him in your arguments.

I think you're just jealous of my brand new roll of tape sitting on my shelf, collecting dust, while yours is all dirty from tire sealant


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

jvossman said:


> HI gang. By the way if the moderator feels that my questions are better served on the tire/wheel forum rather than this long chinese rim thread, let me know.
> 
> Ok, so pulled tires out. Cleaned out all the gunk. Especially at the valve hole Made sure bontrager strips were on correctly (heck even swapped them with each other for good luck) and put new tires on the rims. Double checked to make sure the stand no tube valves were sitting correctly on the strip. The results were:
> 
> ...


Are you using sealant? I would think that should take care of all your little leaks.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

jvossman said:


> HI gang. By the way if the moderator feels that my questions are better served on the tire/wheel forum rather than this long chinese rim thread, let me know.
> 
> Ok, so pulled tires out. Cleaned out all the gunk. Especially at the valve hole Made sure bontrager strips were on correctly (heck even swapped them with each other for good luck) and put new tires on the rims. Double checked to make sure the stand no tube valves were sitting correctly on the strip. The results were:
> 
> ...


I will bet the issue is not the valves, but the interface between the Bonty TLR rim strips and the rims. They may "fit", but maybe not well enough with the non-Bonty rims to seal completely.
I have never had an issue with full Bonty TLR _systems_ sealing when used with UST-compatible tires, even without sealant (though the tire casing may need sealant).

Mix parts and you take your chances.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Quote Originally Posted by Trailice View Post
I need a big wheels for what the bike's intended use is, rotating mass has that beautiful gyroscopic effect while not in contact with the ground, and simply rolls over things easier.
The trick is to not have to regain momentum.
My races wheels are light enough to scare me, and they ain't too light either.
I have folded too many wheels to have that happen again (broken chains as well).
I do not use equipment so much as abuse it.
Ride it like it is stolen or a mamma moose is chasing me!
Filing nipples sound interesting, it might work.
I will have to contemplate that idea.
I do want to order these soonley, my woods might be dry in a month, and a 15-20 day lead time on UD matte downhill 29" rims from LB.
huh? 

Off trail use!

Do not be so condescending, it is rude.:nono:

Oh master of all bike knowledge! 
See that is rude, it is so easy on the net. But not nice.
I have broke more bikes than you have rode, so whatever man, go ride a bike!
And have some fun besides trolling.
p.s. I am native american, and Melting Feather might be offensive to some.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

David C said:


> maybe you didn't notice, but there's a poor guy who's living a nightmare trying to get rid of the airs leaks on his new wheels. He just posted in this thread, yet, you ignored him in your arguments.


People can screw up anything... and you don't know that tape is his problem. If it's at the valve, losing the tape ain't going to fix it.



David C said:


> I think you're just jealous of my brand new roll of tape sitting on my shelf, collecting dust, while yours is all dirty from tire sealant


What I'm jealous of is all the time you spent fiddling with nipples inside your rim. That I wish I could do more. :thumbsup:


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

I'm going to echo that I think the Bontrager TLR strips with the newer rims may be the issue of not sealing near the valve hole.

I just installed the strips and had a similar issue. I just kept doing the stans shake until it went away. Took a day or so, but it did.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> People can screw up anything...:thumbsup:


Including this thread.
Why are your comments so negative?
You need to go ride your bike and relieve some stress some where else besides here.
Thanks for the help david c and mutantclover, Glad some people are here to help, not troll.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Chill people. Use tape if you like it, don't use it if you don't want. 

When you choose not to drill a rim, you end up with a lighter, simpler, cleaner, stronger and more elegant setup. Period. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but these little things are what separate a good product from an A+ product. People pay top dollar for these little details, and if you build your own wheels, you just have to decide how much of yourself you're going to pour into the build to get the results you want. We are all here because we want top notch wheels right? Why not go the extra mile?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

David C said:


> maybe you didn't notice, but there's a poor guy who's living a nightmare trying to get rid of the airs leaks on his new wheels. He just posted in this thread, yet, you ignored him in your arguments.





meltingfeather said:


> People can screw up anything... and you don't know that tape is his problem. If it's at the valve, losing the tape ain't going to fix it.


From what I have read the rider with the leak around the valve stems is not using tape.

He just talked about trying tape if he can't get the Bonty strips to work.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

If you are trying to save weight by not using rim tape, please don't forget to add the weight of the extra carbon that wasn't drilled out. That will offset some of the weight savings. Plus, holes do not always make something weaker. They just need to be placed in the right spot and be nice clean holes without burrs and nicks.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

This thread has reached "Ludicrous Speed".


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

I was not worried about weight, just strength.
Sorry about helping bring this thread up to "ludicrous speed".
Just trying to make a better/stronger wheel.
Tape has worked fine for me in the past, 
Hell I got a stans kit from him off of mtbr in 1999, it was a photocopied sheet from his auto shop in NY. I even did it to a cut down Mavic MA40. Remember those?
Stans works, but 14 years later it is still the exact same concept as then.
I am ready to move on and do not like most of the ust or tubeless ready tires.
I am poor and $440 for less than a kilo of epoxy and cf is a stretch for me.
If I can have better for the same money, why not.
Tape is one more thing to fail. A undrilled rim will not fail like tape would.
But I digress.
Anyone got the 29" 460+/- gram downhill version yet?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Trailice said:


> Including this thread.
> Why are your comments so negative?


They aren't. You just don't get it.


Trailice said:


> You need to go ride your bike and relieve some stress some where else besides here.


Are you in 5th grade? That s**t is so tired it's sad.


Trailice said:


> Thanks for the help david c and mutantclover, Glad some people are here to help, not troll.


lol
Does your p***y hurt?


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

^ This! Bonty strips may not work for some rims but not all. Is that this hard to believe! They didn't work on my rims, where tape did! 
Should not be that hard to understand guys. Prop to meltingfeather I say.


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

hi gang, i appreciate the suggestions. Came back tonight, both tires deflated perhpas the rear slightly less than the front. For the record, my lb all mountian rims were delivered in November 2013. I am using 2 full cups of straight up stans sealant in addition the bontrager strips. I've heard people mention the stan's shake.. Once the air seals the tire, i bounce it around, then spin the wheel horizontal to vertical. Since I have no compressor and am my 12th CO2 cartrige, I then let the CO2 out and then fill regular air to about 40 psi to seat the tire on the rim. I even go out and ride for a few minutes in the parking lot. Is that pretty much the shake? I agree the issue is probably the valve hole/stans valve/bontrager interface. I guess one option is to go back to the bontrager valves but before then I'm going to due the stans tape AND the bontrager rim strips since no one has yet commented on whether running these wheels without rim strips is a smart idea. FWIW my tires are NOT UST, I weight 210 and have had 3 out of last 5 rides cut short by flats on these wheels (and the fourth I ended up in the back of an ambulance-not the wheel's fault), Wish me luck!

JV
Miami FL


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

jvossman said:


> hi gang, i appreciate the suggestions. Came back tonight, both tires deflated perhpas the rear slightly less than the front. For the record, my lb all mountian rims were delivered in November 2013. I am using 2 full cups of straight up stans sealant in addition the bontrager strips. I've heard people mention the stan's shake.. Once the air seals the tire, i bounce it around, then spin the wheel horizontal to vertical. Since I have no compressor and am my 12th CO2 cartrige, I then let the CO2 out and then fill regular air to about 40 psi to seat the tire on the rim. I even go out and ride for a few minutes in the parking lot. Is that pretty much the shake? I agree the issue is probably the valve hole/stans valve/bontrager interface. I guess one option is to go back to the bontrager valves but before then I'm going to due the stans tape AND the bontrager rim strips since no one has yet commented on whether running these wheels without rim strips is a smart idea. FWIW my tires are NOT UST, I weight 210 and have had 3 out of last 5 rides cut short by flats on these wheels (and the fourth I ended up in the back of an ambulance-not the wheel's fault), Wish me luck!
> 
> JV
> Miami FL


No that isn't even close to "the shake". Did you even bother to watch the Stan's video. Of course not!! The shake is to hold the wheel at the 3 and 9 o'clock position and "shake it towards you and away from you.
Then rotate it maybe 20 deg. and repeat, until you get all the way around. That's the shake, and if you didn't do that then maybe try it before you go to Bonty strip and tape.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

Trailice said:


> Anyone got the 29" 460+/- gram downhill version yet?


I have a set of the 29" 35mm downhill version. Probably overkill, but I ride my rigid SS pretty hard so a few more grams for strength in an important area is o.k. by me. They are being built up now and I will be taking them for a short test ride Sat. (building the bike up also) and then a big ride on Sunday. I will report back with pics etc.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You need to go to the Stan's website and view the video. You have to shake and lay on the side a couple of times per side. If you didn’t do that, it will never seal. Riding will not get the sealant up around the bead.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

No fool'n on the Stan's shake. May sound like no big deal, but it works.

NoTubes Support Center

Also remember to let them lie flat for a while. I use a 5 gallon bucket to set them on.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Yes. With my Arch EX rims and Race Kings it took a few weeks to get them sealed. It takes a little effort but eventually they will seal...

Since then Orange Seal is what I use now.


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

manninen said:


> no
> 
> 246mm 30pc
> 242mm 6pc
> ...


What company did you get the spokes from ? What spokes are they?

I have my wheels built in China before shipping to me, I haven't built any wheels myself before

I have a post about my wheels a few days ago.

Still waiting for them.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

Does not matter, i ordered spokes little after these rims like 2 monts ago, told him what happened and he sent those 6 spokes yesterday. Life is and we are just humans. Well, we are humans in internet so we have to be extra careful 
Spokes are dt aerolites

ps. is there 26/559 specific carbon rim topic or is that size so dead so it does not need one?


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Mutantclover said:


> BTW, Mavic claims 4x the fatigue life on their "Fore" drilled alloy rims because one of the rim walls is uninterrupted by holes. How this would translate to composite, I don't know. Just throwing it out there.


Does not carbon have infinite fatigue life, pretty much? If it ain't broken, it is not going to deteriorate.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

How are the stock builds from light-bycycle? Evenly tensioned and stuff? Properly lubed nipples?

It just so much cheaper to get Novatec hubbed set directly. Thinking of hookless 29.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

max_lombardy said:


> My main reason for choosing undrilled is to save the weight of a rim strip. Extra unneeded rotating mass.


4g per wheel. And how much those drilled out 32 bits of carbon weight? Probably half that at least. So you are talking about 2 grams, and your wheelbuilder will hate you.

Better order two rims together with your friend, and give him the heavier one.


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## sq225917 (Dec 28, 2008)

No the epoxy degrades and fibers crack just like anything else, it just takes a while. Alloy on the other hand will fail no matter high light the loading if the cycle number is high enough, with carbon you have to exceed the yield load.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

sq225917 said:


> No the epoxy degrades and fibers crack just like anything else, it just takes a while. Alloy on the other hand will fail no matter high light the loading if the cycle number is high enough, with carbon you have to exceed the yield load.


Degrades, from UV for example, but not fatigues (from bending).


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

i had vision for allrounder carbon bike which supposed to be under weather 365 days a year, mostly sun was burning on bikes left side. some throw me with this link

Degradation of Carbon Fiber-Reinforced Epoxy Composites by Ultraviolet Radiation and Condensation

i have good rat bike which i found from garbage, havent yet bought carbon frame and thinking is it really necessary


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

manninen said:


> Does not matter, i ordered spokes little after these rims like 2 monts ago, told him what happened and he sent those 6 spokes yesterday. Life is and we are just humans. Well, we are humans in internet so we have to be extra careful
> Spokes are dt aerolites
> 
> ps. is there 26/559 specific carbon rim topic or is that size so dead so it does not need one?


Yes there is. Look up the " 26" AM Chinese Carbon Rim" thread or something titled like that. It's in the Wheels and Tires forum if I remember correctly.


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

I had previously read the instructions printed on the inside of the stans kit and a few ghetto tubeless videos.. Now I have seen stans official video, doing the exact shake. thanks. I'll sign off now as I seem to be causing exclamation points and aggravation from at least one forum.

I hope everbody enjoys their cheap chinese rims and that my problems setting them tubeless are a rarity. If I have any other issues I will post in tire forum. THANKS!

John Voss
Miami FL


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Axe said:


> How are the stock builds from light-bycycle? Evenly tensioned and stuff? Properly lubed nipples?
> 
> It just so much cheaper to get Novatec hubbed set directly. Thinking of hookless 29.


Based on the posts I've read about some of their builds, I wouldn't have them build me a wheel. Order the rims, have them shipped to a builder of your choice.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Gabriel J said:


> My 27mm hookless rims showed up today...Weights were 443 and 462, so on par and slightly lower than advertised.
> -Gabe


Gabe, are those the actual weights, or did you type a "4" accidentally rather than a "3"? If those are actual weights, are you sure you got regular 27mm hookless and not 35mm? If they are indeed 27mm (external), did you request an extra strong or DH build with additional carbon plies?

I ask because just a few posts up from yours Manninen stated "Just received my 27mm hookless and weights are 339 and 349.". Also, Lightbicycle quotes 365 for that rim. The mid 400s is where several people are reporting their 35mm rims coming in.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Just got a note from LB saying my rims are done. I ordered the AM weight 27 mm wide hookless. They are reporting weights of 351 & 360. I've replied asking to confirm that these are AM weights, but maybe they are coming in under the listed weights for both XC and AM.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

jvossman said:


> hi gang, i appreciate the suggestions. Came back tonight, both tires deflated perhpas the rear slightly less than the front. For the record, my lb all mountian rims were delivered in November 2013. I am using 2 full cups of straight up stans sealant in addition the bontrager strips. I've heard people mention the stan's shake.. Once the air seals the tire, i bounce it around, then spin the wheel horizontal to vertical. Since I have no compressor and am my 12th CO2 cartrige, I then let the CO2 out and then fill regular air to about 40 psi to seat the tire on the rim. ...


You perfectly highlite why I bought an air compressor. I went through that many times, got fed up, spent the $150 for a 8 gallon oil free compressor...

Sounds like you may not have trimmed back the rim strips at the valve holes properly. Would need a picture to be sure. Any rim tape can interfere with the seal of the stem.

In addition to the stans shake as you call it, I lay the wheel on its side in a garbage can alternating sides 5 minutes at a time. I spin it in my truing stand for 5 or even 10 minutes. And if theres air coming out somewhere I hold that spot at the lowest spot to stans comes bubbling out the hole and just hold it like that until it stops.

Dave C you're a genius. I would have taken that approach any day of the week and twice on sunday if I'd thought of it. Gorilla tape is 18g added to each rim of rotational weight. I just spent all this time and money to save 60g over my I19's and a third of it goes out the window to messy tape that sort of works most of the time???

Good god if you had to replace a nipple (and I havent in 20 years of mountain biking) you have to peel the tape off, and then somehow get the goop left behind off with acetone, WD40, or maybe gasoline so the next strip will stick and seal...


----------



## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

jvossman said:


> hi gang, i appreciate the suggestions. Came back tonight, both tires deflated perhpas the rear slightly less than the front. For the record, my lb all mountian rims were delivered in November 2013. I am using 2 full cups of straight up stans sealant in addition the bontrager strips. I've heard people mention the stan's shake.. Once the air seals the tire, i bounce it around, then spin the wheel horizontal to vertical. Since I have no compressor and am my 12th CO2 cartrige, I then let the CO2 out and then fill regular air to about 40 psi to seat the tire on the rim. ...


You perfectly highlite why I bought an air compressor. I went through that many times, got fed up, spent the $150 for a 8 gallon oil free compressor...

Sounds like you may not have trimmed back the rim strips at the valve holes properly. Would need a picture to be sure. Any rim tape can interfere with the seal of the stem.

In addition to the stans shake as you call it, I lay the wheel on its side in a garbage can alternating sides 5 minutes at a time. I spin it in my truing stand for 5 or even 10 minutes. And if theres air coming out somewhere I hold that spot at the lowest spot to stans comes bubbling out the hole and just hold it like that until it stops.

Dave C you're a genius. I would have taken that approach any day of the week and twice on sunday if I'd thought of it. Gorilla tape is 18g added to each rim of rotational weight. I just spent all this time and money to save 60g over my I19's and a third of it goes out the window to messy tape that sort of works most of the time???

Good god if you had to replace a nipple (and I havent in 20 years of mountain biking) you have to peel the tape off, and then somehow get the goop left behind off with acetone, WD40, or maybe gasoline so the next strip will stick and seal...


----------



## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

Hey guys, wanna hear something funny.

27mm hookless DS tightness 20 (parktool scale)

i use innertubes

i put 60psi to pop tyre properly

check tension with 60psi

DS shows 17-18, so every spoke loses -2 (park tool scale)

haven´t thought THIS before, is this common?


----------



## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

manninen said:


> Hey guys, wanna hear something funny.
> 
> 27mm hookless DS tightness 20 (parktool scale)
> 
> ...


It does happen, especially when you over inflate a tire. Max psi on these rims is 40... I believe one of the very first posts in this thread showed images of what happens when you over inflate on these rims...

I put carbon beaded tubeless road tires on Stans alpha 340's and they dropped 30 kgf...


----------



## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

okay, that stans sounds tough
i know i took a risk with these. actually these are not in mtb but in creditcard tourer

so im running 45-50psi 32mm tyres

at LB they said it´s ok.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> It does happen, especially when you over inflate a tire. Max psi on these rims is 40... I believe one of the very first posts in this thread showed images of what happens when you over inflate on these rims...
> 
> I put carbon beaded tubeless road tires on Stans alpha 340's and they dropped 30 kgf...


It's not the pressure it's the bead seating tightly.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

SJDude said:


> Any rim tape can interfere with the seal of the stem.


You can also have stem seal leaks with no tape.



SJDude said:


> Dave C you're a genius. I would have taken that approach any day of the week and twice on sunday if I'd thought of it. Gorilla tape is 18g added to each rim of rotational weight. I just spent all this time and money to save 60g over my I19's and a third of it goes out the window to messy tape that sort of works most of the time???


You used the wrong tape... and didn't account for the carbon lost to the hole drilling.



SJDude said:


> Good god if you had to replace a nipple (and I havent in 20 years of mountain biking) you have to peel the tape off, and then somehow get the goop left behind off with acetone, WD40, or maybe gasoline so the next strip will stick and seal...


Walk us through the process for one of these magical rims with no bed holes, just for comparison.


----------



## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> It's not the pressure it's the bead seating tightly.


Yeah, what he said. People have found this with notubes rims especially with tight fitting schwalbes.

The drop in tension most likely happened when you put the tire on, before you aired it up. To confirm, try measuring the tension with the tire flat.

Dunno where they get the 40psi max from. The LB site says 70psi - but I wouldn't go trying to do that with a 2.35 tire. I'm running my 27mm rims with 35mm touring tires at 60psi on my commuter.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Based on the posts I've read about some of their builds, I wouldn't have them build me a wheel. Order the rims, have them shipped to a builder of your choice.


I would maybe also order the Novatec hubs and Pillar spokes... supposedly good stuff.

But yes, never a problem with one local guy. His builds stay tight and true for years.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

SJDude said:


> Dave C you're a genius. I would have taken that approach any day of the week and twice on sunday if I'd thought of it. Gorilla tape is 18g added to each rim of rotational weight. I just spent all this time and money to save 60g over my I19's and a third of it goes out the window to messy tape that sort of works most of the time???


Why are you using Gorilla tape? It is too thick for tubeless ready rims - no need to build up. 4g or so for a single layer of yellow tape - works perfectly.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

manninen said:


> Hey guys, wanna hear something funny.
> 
> 27mm hookless DS tightness 20 (parktool scale)
> 
> ...


Sounds plausible that an inflated tube compresses the rim inwards. 60psi is like two and half times too high though, is not it?


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Axe said:


> I would maybe also order the Novatec hubs and Pillar spokes... supposedly good stuff.
> 
> But yes, never a problem with one local guy. His builds stay tight and true for years.


That's what I did, because I wanted to use brass nipples and they didn't had the gold ones available, so I told them to ship me the rims, hubs and spokes. Turns out they shipped me 252mm spokes, while I needed 250's, 251's and 253's. I was able to ship back the spokes (another $16 out of my pocket for shipping), and buy the right lengths from Dan's Comp. Later LB told me they only have certain lengths in stock and they wouldn't have the right lengths for my build. Big bummer.

So if you're to order the spokes from them and you really don't know the exact lengths, I'd suggest to order the spokes about 4-5mm longer than needed and have a lbs cut them to the right length (make sure you have such a lbs that can do it for you before ordering). Novatec hubs are nice for the price, plus you can choose the ones with the XD driver compatibility, and they are well priced. Just beware of spokes lengths if you order the whole un-built package. Oh, and they also price alloy nipples for dirt cheap, so make sure to add that to your order too.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Axe said:


> Sounds plausible that an inflated tube compresses the rim inwards. 60psi is like two and half times too high though, is not it?


"Sounds plausible" is armchair quarterbacking.
What you find when you actually do it and measure it (reality) is that bead seating causes the drop. Pressure does virtually nothing.
There is a thread posted here that I started on this very topic with measurements and figures.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> "Sounds plausible" is armchair quarterbacking.
> What you find when you actually do it and measure it (reality) is that bead seating causes the drop. Pressure does virtually nothing.
> There is a thread posted here that I started on this very topic with measurements and figures.


Bead seating? Did you do FMA on it? Interesting. Yeah, I was just guessing.

Just about the forces involved, 60 psi about 400000 N m2. 0.03m width, 0.580*3.14 = 1.8m, 0.0546m2 inner rim surface, 22612 Newton of force. 2 tons inwards. Is it right?


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

David C said:


> TTurns out they shipped me 252mm spokes, while I needed 250's, 251's and 253's.


That should about work, should not it? Maybe with one of those nipples with longer threading. Dont many brands only come in even mm sizes anyway.

I think local shop I use have a cutting machine, will ask what they will do. Did you measure ERD by any chance yourself? I see different numbers in this thread, maybe different rims (was thinking on 29 hookless). I guess I can ski the spokes.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Axe said:


> Bead seating? Did you do FMA on it? Interesting. Yeah, I was just guessing.


If you mean FEA, no... I took actual measurements.
Measure tension, seat tire, measure again, start adding pressure, measure every 5 psi. Do the same thing on the way back down, all the way to unseating the bead.


Axe said:


> Just about the forces involved, 60 psi about 400000 N m2. 0.03m width, 0.580*3.14 = 1.8m, 0.0546m2 inner rim surface, 22612 Newton of force. 2 tons inwards. Is it right?


Don't know... I answered my questions with measurements. Theoretical stabbings (armchair quarterbacking) are a waste of time when 30 minutes with a pump and a tensiometer will make sure everything is covered.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Don't know... I answered my questions with measurements. Theoretical stabbings (armchair quarterbacking) are a waste of time when 30 minutes with a pump and a tensiometer will make sure everything is covered.


Tensiometer is the end result. Forces involved can a) deform rim cross section shape pushing beads apart. b) compress rim inwards with the force I calculated above. Is there an option c)? Which one is the main cause - I had no idea. Not that it is that important.

Armchair quarterbacking is what we do on da webz.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Axe said:


> Tensiometer is the end result.


Exactly. The beauty of it is that it actual measurements catch all the things you forgot to account for. :thumbsup:


Axe said:


> Armchair quarterbacking is what we do on da webz.


What my thread did "on da webz" was report measured data.
Keep speculating about what forces might be involved and what dynamics might be affecting the tension, etc... I know already because I have a pump and a TM-1


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Axe said:


> That should about work, should not it? Maybe with one of those nipples with longer threading. Dont many brands only come in even mm sizes anyway.
> 
> I think local shop I use have a cutting machine, will ask what they will do. Did you measure ERD by any chance yourself? I see different numbers in this thread, maybe different rims (was thinking on 29 hookless). I guess I can ski the spokes.


Unfortunately, no. They were too short except for the front disc side. I think they were actually 251.5mm. Anyway, I tried them at first and they were too short for real. These were the 26 DH rims, ERD was spot on. The Pillar spokes are awesome, I almost want to order them back, since I know the exact lengths now, but it's not worth it to relace the wheels just because of that anymore.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

David C said:


> Lol, I'd easily imagine you spending over an hour trying to fish in a single nipple, since obviously you have no clues on what you're talking about.
> 
> 3 minutes top is what it'll take you if the nipple to be replaced is the one further away from the valve hole. 30 seconds or less for the 6~8 closest nipples and between a minute or two for all the others. The only difference would be not having to redo your rim tape setup or in the case of using the gorilla tape with an old inner tube valve, you wouldn't have to also retape the valve. In both cases, you'd still need to pluck the valve out anyway, unless your setup has the valve independent from the tape.
> 
> In the end, it's only gonna take you 3 minutes more to do the job if you have undrilled vs drilled. You'll still have to take the tire off, clean the sealant, take the tape/valve out, shake the old nipple out of there, get the new lube nipple in, etc. No big deal.


I am guessing you have never tried to get a nipple out of the rim bed before.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

MTBMILES said:


> I am guessing you have never tried to get a nipple out of the rim bed before.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well you guessed wrong about 120 times. Better luck next time !


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

ok enough.

can you take this elsewhere? put it in another thread. call it the "Undrilled Rim bed thread". In there, you can have how to's, and continue your debate on the merits of it. in that thread, you can say "if you don't like it, get out of this thread".

but stop making a meal of this thread.

i am sick of hearing about you trying to make out that this undrilled rim bed approach to be the be all and end all. play down the downsides, and drum up the upsides. there are plenty of people on here that have had the competency to apply some rim tape to a rim and have it not leak. you trying to sell the idea to the people that can't seem to get this right is absolutely ridiculous - if they can't put some tape on a rim, how do you think they'll go fishing nipples through a rim?

likewise, the detractors. if you be quiet, maybe he will go away. let him have his little peace of mind that the rim tape is not gonna leak, and that he saved 2 grams per wheel. no need to be so negative, when someone obviously needs to have this, so don't try to take it away.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> What my thread did "on da webz" was report measured data.
> Keep speculating about what forces might be involved and what dynamics might be affecting the tension, etc... I know already because I have a pump and a TM-1


Good for you, and thank you for sharing your data. Some of us also enjoy understanding of underlying causes, even if it is "speculation" and discussion. I see nothing wrong with that.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Lol, sclyde2, get lost. Some people here started asking me about undrilled rim bed, so I answered their questions. Others came in saying it's not worth crap and we debated about the pros and cons. Im not saying this is the only way to go, simply offering advises on how to do it for the ones who are interested in it. Sone other people (not pointing any fingers here) jumped in and started trolling the conversation about undrilled rim bed. Anyway, I think everything has been said, so I'm done for this. Move on to the ride reports of hookless rims. These are very interesting none of the less.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> It's not the pressure it's the bead seating tightly.


I disagree with this claim. The bead is not shrinking in diameter as it seats; if anything, it is stretching (albeit ever so slightly). The air pressure, on the other hand, is literally a force pressing in direct opposition to the spoke tension, so it unsurprisingly reduces the measured tension.

If you need proof of this, try the following experiment: A road tire works best since it has a wider range of pressure. Install a tire. Add enough pressure to seat the bead. Then raise pressure to the highest practical (100-120 psi in many road tires); measure the spoke tension. Now reduce the pressure to 10-20 psi; measure the spoke tension again; although the bead remains tightly seated, the tension will be noticeably lower.

Spoke tension reducing as tire pressure increases is a normal phenomenon, although I'll concede it is UNcommon for folks to observe it.

I've often read that "appropriate" spoke tension is in the 80-120kgF range, but I've never found anyone citing whether that ideal tension is measured with, or without, a tires installed. Given the other post about losing 30kgF in an extreme example (noodly rim with high tire pressure) it seems to me that this would be a useful clarification.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

David C said:


> Anyway, I think everything has been said, so I'm done for this. Move on to the ride reports of hookless rims. These are very interesting none of the less.


nice


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

David C said:


> Well you guessed wrong about 120 times. Better luck next time !


It took you 120 tries to get the nipple out, so sorry for you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

MTBMILES said:


> It took you 120 tries to get the nipple out, so sorry for you.


stop it. could we try not to stir it up.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

sclyde2 said:


> stop it. could we try not to stir it up.


Okay, I apologize. I have had great luck running the hookless rims by Derby, and running low-pressure 17 pounds and have had no burps or pressure loss. I have been using the Chunky Monkeys.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

MTBMILES said:


> Okay, I apologize. I have had great luck running the hookless rims by Derby, and running low-pressure 17 pounds and have had no burps are pressure loss.


wow 17 pounds. how light are you? what tires were those?


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

I am 160lbs and I have the 2.4 in the front. I have struggled to get spoke nipples out of deep dish road wheels, so I know it can be difficult. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Why all the hate for David C for mentioning a viable option to build with no-bed-hole rims? He didn't say everyone using tape were idiots. I perceived his "arguments" to be just a list of his personal rationales for making the effort, not an attempt to establish his approach as superior for all.

Both approaches are valid. Some of the arguments for not using tape are admittedly pretty ridiculous (weight savings? as has been noted, yellow tape probably weighs about as much as the carbon being drilled, maybe 2g more). 

For me, the attraction of having no tape is really just an elegant touch with some minor practical benefits (no tape hassles, however modest they may be) and some significant downsides (much more tedious wheel build).

For those that want to trade tedium and time for that bit of elegance, feel free. For those that don't, that's great too. But this dogmatic, polarizing and hateful ranting seems ridiculous in the context of what should be just another interesting wheel building option.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> "Sounds plausible" is armchair quarterbacking.
> What you find when you actually do it and measure it (reality) is that bead seating causes the drop. Pressure does virtually nothing.
> There is a thread posted here that I started on this very topic with measurements and figures.


Coincidentally, I did this very measurement on three wheels and found the exact opposite conclusion that you did. I found a consistent and measureable reduction in tension as tire pressure reduced, up to the point at which the bead "relaxed," and there was no additional de-tensioning after the bead relaxed.

I found your other thread on this topic, and noticed is was primarily about a Crest rim, which may explain some of the difference in our observations. In my case, all the wheels were "normal" road rims with typical beads, 450-500g/rim, 28-32H such as Open Pro, RR1.1, and Synergy.

Probably best to continue the discussion in the other thread, if you want, but I thought I'd note this here since the conclusion, in my opinion, isn't so black and white.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

InertiaMan said:


> Coincidentally, I did this very measurement on three wheels and found the exact opposite conclusion that you did. I found a consistent and measureable reduction in tension as tire pressure reduced, up to the point at which the bead "relaxed," and there was no additional de-tensioning after the bead relaxed.
> 
> I found your other thread on this topic, and noticed is was primarily about a Crest rim, which may explain some of the difference in our observations. In my case, all the wheels were "normal" road rims with typical beads, 450-500g/rim, 28-32H such as Open Pro, RR1.1, and Synergy.
> 
> Probably best to continue the discussion in the other thread, if you want, but I thought I'd note this here since the conclusion, in my opinion, isn't so black and white.


I have found this to be the more true explanation also. The bead with no air makes a small difference, but as you increase the pressure the spoke tension tends to lessen.


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## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

sclyde2 said:


> Yeah, what he said. People have found this with notubes rims especially with tight fitting schwalbes.
> 
> The drop in tension most likely happened when you put the tire on, before you aired it up. To confirm, try measuring the tension with the tire flat.
> 
> Dunno where they get the 40psi max from. The LB site says 70psi - but I wouldn't go trying to do that with a 2.35 tire. I'm running my 27mm rims with 35mm touring tires at 60psi on my commuter.


Good to know there are others using this rim incorrect.
That roval rim blowup was still thing to keep in mind
32mm tyre on 27mm rim is slightly, may i say erotic looking combo

edit: your 60psi is sick. now ridden these wheels and they are solid rock. 
60psi you have to be 110kg weight, steel frame or at least front suspension.
me, aluminum frame, 80kg i went to 30-35psi . so much vibrations.
tyres are challenge strada biancas now and rode those mavic a719 rims about 40-45psi

My second tubular wheels i ride 40-50psi.

shieett these are stiff


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

You are totally right...343 and 362..I was calculating the weight difference vs my Arch EX, and somehow got the "4" in my head.



TheKaiser said:


> Gabe, are those the actual weights, or did you type a "4" accidentally rather than a "3"? If those are actual weights, are you sure you got regular 27mm hookless and not 35mm? If they are indeed 27mm (external), did you request an extra strong or DH build with additional carbon plies?
> 
> I ask because just a few posts up from yours Manninen stated "Just received my 27mm hookless and weights are 339 and 349.". Also, Lightbicycle quotes 365 for that rim. The mid 400s is where several people are reporting their 35mm rims coming in.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

InertiaMan said:


> Coincidentally, I did this very measurement on three wheels and found the exact opposite conclusion that you did. I found a consistent and measureable reduction in tension as tire pressure reduced, up to the point at which the bead "relaxed," and there was no additional de-tensioning after the bead relaxed.
> 
> I found your other thread on this topic, and noticed is was primarily about a Crest rim, which may explain some of the difference in our observations. In my case, all the wheels were "normal" road rims with typical beads, 450-500g/rim, 28-32H such as Open Pro, RR1.1, and Synergy.
> 
> Probably best to continue the discussion in the other thread, if you want, but I thought I'd note this here since the conclusion, in my opinion, isn't so black and white.


This is interesting.
There are many variables, one of them being whether the tire stays seated as it is deflated and another being how tight the interference fit between rim and tire is.
Maybe a carbon rim is more susceptible to pressure effects on spoke tension than a Crest. I wouldn't have thought so, but I'll do the same experiment on my Nancy Wides.
For those of you who have done this or say you have, post up your measurements in the other thread. :thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

InertiaMan said:


> But this dogmatic, polarizing and hateful ranting seems ridiculous in the context of what should be just another interesting wheel building option.


Melodrama isn't helpful or interesting.
Maybe you haven't been around enough or not in the right threads to know David C. is a respected contributor many of us have dialogued with quite a bit. It's not hate, you just don't get it. :thumbsup:


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

meltingfeather said:


> This is interesting.
> There are many variables, one of them being whether the tire stays seated as it is deflated and another being how tight the interference fit between rim and tire is.


This.

I measured a 20% spoke tension drop bead seated vs unseated (no air pressure) on both a Crest/Maxxis Ardent and Crest/Schwalbe Nobby Nic, but a different rim design and a less tight tire/rim interface might give different results.

For me, it is a fact that if the tire/rim interface is tight and a tire bead is very resistant to stretch, this can produce a significant spoke tension drop. There might be other factors that produce such a drop; I don't know.

@IntertiaMan, there is a big difference between the road rims you describe and both Notubes and LB rim designs. The MTB designs have a flat portion of the rim bed on which most tires have a tight fit. This is where the pressure comes from. Most road rims do not have this. With such a design, a road tire bead only puts side pressure on the rim wall, no downward pressure on the rim bed.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

David C said:


> Uncut fiber is stronger than perforated fiber. Pretty basic science right here.
> 
> However, it wouldn't make much of a difference since the fiber being perforated in this case isn't the one dealing with much of the rim strength. So it's negligible. Using internal nipples does make the rim stronger as the nipple hole is only 2~3mm ø vs regular nipples that requires a 4~5mm ø hole. The internal nipples also distribute their load on a larger area than the standard nipples would, making the overall rim stronger and more durable. Cons are no wheel tuning with tires on and you can go undrilled, but pros are a stronger wheel and less chance to round off a nipple and a cleaner look.
> 
> So many ways to enjoy your new wheels


No clue, eh? Well I guess I have no clue of how to build wheels, considering I only have maybe built 12 of my own wheels with no failures multiple years out. Okay, one failure when I tried to turn to sharp at the bottom of a flight of stairs, and I folded the rim over. Wups. Not that I would build rims professionally for anybody else. It takes me a couple hours to lace up, tension and true a wheel. The pros knock it out in 30 minutes and do a good job with it. That said, I think my results are pretty dang good, if I do say so myself. I get very even spoke tension all the way around with no hops or waves. BTW, I haven't had to touch my LB carbon/Hugi/Lefty wheelset since I built it a year and a half ago, and I abuse these things like a rental car under my 210 pound fatass. Still straight as flock.

So, maybe I don't have a clue. Please, fill me in. I would love to learn as long as you aren't a d!** about it.

My point was more that nipples fail way more often than spokes, as long as you use good quality spokes of the appropriate type for the job at hand. Seems like a lot of work to sole a non-problem.... seems like they want to milk the cow by lifting all 4 legs up and down.

So, for my own education, how do you fish a nipple through a no-hole tire bed rim without using Mavic style reverse thread installed nipples, that require a larger hole and are more prone to fail, or cause damage to the rim when it does fail in the first place? Heh... not that I would ever do that. I don't run tubeless anymore (no advantage in my case, but more extra work, and potential repair time eating into my ride time), anyway, but if I did I would rather re-tape the rim.

Plain-Jane setup of 32 double butted DT Swiss spokes with brass nipples has always been a super reliable setup for me, with only a 15-20g weight penalty over alloy nipples. Honestly I don't have a lot of motivation to change things. I have zero desire to impress my friends with slick sounding, but useless whiz-bang pseudo-"upgrades". I just want my stuff to work reliably and perform well.

As far as saving the weight of a rims strip goes, I'll bet the metal left in the rim from not drilling weighs more than a lap of Stan's Rim tape.

*edit*

Weird. The message board just switched the original quote to a different quote.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

JeroenK said:


> @IntertiaMan, there is a big difference between the road rims you describe and both Notubes and LB rim designs. The MTB designs have a flat portion of the rim bed on which most tires have a tight fit. This is where the pressure comes from. Most road rims do not have this. With such a design, a road tire bead only puts side pressure on the rim wall, no downward pressure on the rim bed.


I'm fully aware of this difference, which is why I noted the specific rims I had run this little experiment on many months ago. That doesn't negate the fact that my measurements are directly contradictory to some folks claiming that "tire pressure has no effect on spoke tension." I contend that it does have a significant and measureable effect. I'm speculating that it has an effect regardless of rim design, and I'll do some additional measurements to test that theory & post them later. 
In parallel, I'll still happily listen to evidence that the tire bead / rim combo may also contribute to de-tension, and if/when it does, I'd certainly expect the scale of that effect to be dependent on the rim/tire designs.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

manninen said:


> Good to know there are others using this rim incorrect.
> That roval rim blowup was still thing to keep in mind
> 32mm tyre on 27mm rim is slightly, may i say erotic looking combo
> 
> ...


Oooh, sew-ups! I've always wanted to go with tubulars on my cross bike. I really don't ride that bike enough to justify putting bling anything or spending real money on her.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

*Tire pressure vs. spoke tension data posted on other thread*

If anyone cares to review it, I posted a fresh set of data here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/tire-pressure-spoke-tension-777704-2.html#post11112279

Short summary:
Tire pressure meaningfully reduces spoke tension on all wheels.
Bead seating meaningfully reduces spoke tension on tire/rim combos intended for tight seating, aka tubeless, and it contributes proportionally more in tighter rim/tire combos.
In the case of this thread (carbon MTB wheels typically run tubeless at 25-ish PSI) the two factors contribute in roughly comparable proportion, though the bead seating might be as high as a 70% contributor to de-tensioning in particular cases (tight bead, low pressure).


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

InertiaMan said:


> If anyone cares to review it, I posted a fresh set of data here:
> 
> Short summary:
> Tire pressure meaningfully reduces spoke tension on all wheels.
> ...


Is not it the main idea of Stan's rim profile that it has a non-standard (larger diameter) bead seat combined with a lower than normal hook, so as to work better with a non-tubeless bead. So placing a bead on applies pressure to the bead seat. That is also the reason I do not like to use Stan's anymore, especially with EX iteration, no need to apply such tricks as modern tubeless compatible tires seat well anyway (like on ~UST shaped WTB rims).


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

InertiaMan said:


> I'm fully aware of this difference, which is why I noted the specific rims I had run this little experiment on many months ago. That doesn't negate the fact that my measurements are directly contradictory to some folks claiming that "tire pressure has no effect on spoke tension."


You're right, it does not. I did not read your post well enough (non native English speaker here...) and mistakenly concluded you were not aware of the design differences.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

TedS123 said:


> Just got a note from LB saying my rims are done. I ordered the AM weight 27 mm wide hookless. They are reporting weights of 351 & 360. I've replied asking to confirm that these are AM weights, but maybe they are coming in under the listed weights for both XC and AM.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


Heard back from LB: 351 & 360 were for XC weight rims. They then offered AM weight rims at 399 & 431 ready to ship. The whole order and communication process is going smoothly thru eBay. Just waiting for a tracking number...

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

*Kappius Rims*

I just posted info on wheels/tires but thought it should also be posted here since the originator of this thread (how many years ago?) is rkappius.
Apparently he has been working on this for awhile!







I would love to have a set of these laced up to their KH-1 hubs, dream wheelset! It says they are available 2014 as rims and wheelsets. Thomas Dooley and Mike Hogan rode these at Cape Epic last week with no problems.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Andy, those ^ specs for the Kappius rims are pretty damn impressive! Thanks for posting this. Any idea on how they distribute these? ie. consumer direct, or through shops?


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## ritchief (Sep 23, 2010)

So after much deliberation, I have just ordered the rims only, Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible)...I just hope they live up to my expectations. 

At least they are cheaper than Enves and hopefully better than the Specialized Rovals..

I plan to have them built in DT Swiss 240 hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes...

Does anyone know what the appx delivery dates to the UK on these babies ??


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

ritchief said:


> I plan to have them built in DT Swiss 240 hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes...


What nipples?


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## ritchief (Sep 23, 2010)

I think that they will be Sapim Secure Lock, but I am waiting for the wheel builder to confirm.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I always think better while I'm riding...... I thought I might have ruffled some feathers w/ my post about Kappius rims/wheels. I realized while riding today that they're not that cheap and they are sold by an american company, although they are made in China to Kappius specs. As far as I know they sell only consumer direct due to them being such a small company. They may be available through shops, but I don't know. The rims will be available (per the website) soon for $599 each. Less than Enve but much more than LB. The rims, along w/ the hubs, are definitely a high end product. Like I said, I posted mostly because my belief is that rkappius who started this thread is Russ Kappius of Kappius components.


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## mudpuppy (Feb 7, 2004)

Here is my latest setup. Wider 29er rims 30ID, CK hubs, DT straight guage spokes, long brass nipples.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

mudpuppy said:


> Here is my latest setup. Wider 29er rims 30ID, CK hubs, DT straight guage spokes, long brass nipples.
> 
> ]


What type of riding do you intend for this build?


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## mudpuppy (Feb 7, 2004)

AM. I live in BC and ride everything, it may even see a park day or two.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Very cool wheelset!


mudpuppy said:


> Here is my latest setup. Wider 29er rims 30ID, CK hubs, DT straight guage spokes, long brass nipples.


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## SLS1980 (Oct 4, 2009)

mudpuppy said:


> Here is my latest setup. Wider 29er rims 30ID, CK hubs, DT straight guage spokes, long brass nipples.


Are there advantages to long vs regular nipples?


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

*Current Thinking on Tubeless?*

Early on in the thread, it seems like there was a great deal of success in using the Bontrager rim strips for easy tubless conversion. However, that seems to have been primarily with what they now call their XC rim.

Some later posts related to the wider AM rim indicate that using the Bontrager strips might not be so straight-forward. It seems some of these were using Stans valves instead of the Bontrager valves. I don't know if that's a contributor of if the Bontrager valves don't work at all.

Then there have been posts about using Stans, Gorilla tape, etc.

I've ordered a set of the AM 29er rims and was planning to use the Bontrager strips and valves (and sealant) for my setup. But wanted to see if anyone wanted to summarize the current thinking on going tubeless with the AM rims.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

objectuser said:


> Early on in the thread, it seems like there was a great deal of success in using the Bontrager rim strips for easy tubless conversion. However, that seems to have been primarily with what they now call their XC rim.
> 
> Some later posts related to the wider AM rim indicate that using the Bontrager strips might not be so straight-forward. It seems some of these were using Stans valves instead of the Bontrager valves. I don't know if that's a contributor of if the Bontrager valves don't work at all.
> 
> ...


I setup a pair of LB 650B 35mm wide rims tubless with 25mm Stan's tape and Stan's valve stems. It took 10 mins each and was one of the easiest rims I have ever setup tubeless.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

objectuser said:


> Early on in the thread, it seems like there was a great deal of success in using the Bontrager rim strips for easy tubless conversion. However, that seems to have been primarily with what they now call their XC rim.
> 
> Some later posts related to the wider AM rim indicate that using the Bontrager strips might not be so straight-forward. It seems some of these were using Stans valves instead of the Bontrager valves. I don't know if that's a contributor of if the Bontrager valves don't work at all.
> 
> ...


The LB rim naming/labeling "system" (if you can call it that) is kind of confusing and haphazard. As such, if you are going to try to get some sort of clarity on the preferred methods for going tubeless, I would suggest you use the internal widths, and whether they are standard hooked, or the newer hookless design, to determine what people are running. i.e. 23mm-hooked vs. 22mm-hookless. Additionally, as if it wasn't confusing enough, there are people out there who have ordered extra beefy builds, with extra plies of carbon, but in the narrower more "XC" rim models/dimensions, and they have referred to them as "AM weight" or even just "AM", so it is tough to be sure what people are actually using unless you are really specific.

Having said all of that, I can't claim to have a perfect recall of all 5700 posts in this thread, but my recollection of general trend is as follows.

-When you say "AM 29er rims" I am guessing that you are referring to the 23mm-hooked model that seems to have the most users on here. My impression of the sentiment regarding tubeless setup was that Bontrager strips do provide a more secure seat for the bead of the tire due to their bump/barb/ridge that sits inboard of the tire bead, which helps to prevent burping. This can be observed by deflating a tire mounted on that setup, and trying to push it inward on the rim...it will offer a lot of resistance. Stans and Gorilla don't provide this additional security, but for many people with many tires, that additional security appears to be unnecessary. It also adds somewhere around 30g+ over Stans tape, with Gorilla in the middle, weight wise.

-As you mention, there were people reporting problems with Bontrager strips sealing around the valve, but if memory serves, the recent mentions of that were on a hookless rims, which probably doesn't apply to you. That could have something to do with it, as the subtle differences in the hooked/hookless interior dimensions and shaping could make a substantial difference on this front. Or, as you point out, it could also be mixing valve/strip brands. Or user error. At this point, I don't think we really know.

-There are people who have reported blowouts, but I am inclined to believe that is more a tire/rim tolerance issue, and not so much a bad strip/tape setup.

I know it is probably not the absolute answer you want, but if you are at all of a weight weeny then I would start with the lightest setup (Stan's tape) and your preferred tire. Set it to your lowest ideal (reasonable) pressure and then take it on one of your bumpiest rides. See if you can get it to burp. If not, then additional bead security would seem to be unneeded for your tire/rim combo and riding style. Congratulations, you can run the lightest setup and save your self money too! If it does burp, then you can work your way up the bead security scale as slow/fast as you want, starting with thicker layers of tape, and ending with the Bontrager strips.

For additional safety, I would suggest doing this on the rear only, as that wheel tends to see the greatest stresses (thus providing a good test bed) while also providing the lowest risk in case of a sudden loss of pressure...and it goes without saying bring a tube/pump.


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

Thanks for your replies, guys.

Yes, I am referring to the 23mm internal, clincher, 29er AM rim.

I've not run tubeless before, so really I was looking for ease of conversion and reliability in the setup. If it's a pita, I'll likely go back to tubes. 

Kaiser, I really appreciate your suggestion of doing the rear tire first. That seems like sound advice. And thanks for your synthesis of the data on the Bontrager strips.

Vik, glad yours went well. Stans seems to be the most widely used method. I may go that way at some point.


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

Laced up my XC wheels late Fri night/Sat morning.

LB Hookless carbon 27mm rims, UD Matte finish 32h
Chris King SS/ISO hubs
Dt Swiss Revolution spokes and alloy nipples (if they don't last I'll go to brass) 
Stans tape/Valve

Weight savings vs the Arch EX and DT competition was over 300 grams. Stiffness vs alloy rims is off the charts


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

What ERD did you use. I have a set on order but time is running short on getting them built in time and I would like to order some spokes.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

AKamp said:


> What ERD did you use. I have a set on order but time is running short on getting them built in time and I would like to order some spokes.


Just to be sure I would wait the ERD may be different on your set.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Objectuser the rims you are buying work awesome with the Bontrager strips. I have 6 wheels with them and over 3000 trouble free miles and I am not abusive, but am somewhat hard on wheels.


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> Objectuser the rims you are buying work awesome with the Bontrager strips. I have 6 wheels with them and over 3000 trouble free miles and I am not abusive, but am somewhat hard on wheels.


Thanks! That's what I'm looking for!

Are you using the Bontrager valve as well?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I use Stan's valves and I really have to crank them down since they are just long enough for the Stan's injector If I really crank them down. Since i do have to make them so tight to work with the injector, i figure they are the shortest, lightest that will work and readily available. Also, since I have many wheelsets when I am changing fluid since all my valves are the same, I do not have to be concerned with putting the wrong valve body in the wrong valve because I generally do 2 or 3 wheels at a time in an assembly line fashion. When setting up a new wheel, I occasionally have had a little leaking around the valve even though it is cranked down but a couple of shakes with the sealant and valve at the bottom and they seal right up.


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## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

objectuser said:


> Thanks for your replies, guys.
> 
> Yes, I am referring to the 23mm internal, clincher, 29er AM rim.
> 
> ...........


RE:
Bontrager rim strips

The 406892 Rhythm Symmetric is the one you want for the 23mm internal rim.

Works perfectly.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Just got my LB Hookless 29er Rims built up and installed. Set the tires with a trail pump....yea a trail pump....crazy. Really nice quality Rims....if they're good this season going to get the road version for my SuperSix.


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## allenpg (Jul 7, 2004)

I've got a 29er wheelset currently built with Stan's Crest rims with Sapim CX-Ray spokes. I'm tempted to switch the the Light Bicycle hookless carbon. I'm interested in folks thoughts on the new build. I'm about 150 lbs., and these would be for XC use. Thanks!


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## c_klein87 (Apr 28, 2013)

any shots of the derby or LB 35mm wide rim with a Knard fitted? theyre 5mm narrower than surly state as minimum internal width, wondered if it causes many issues?


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

GabrielJ_Laced up my XC wheels late Fri night/Sat morning.

LB Hookless carbon 27mm rims, UD Matte finish 32h
Chris King SS/ISO hubs
Dt Swiss Revolution spokes and alloy nipples (if they don't last I'll go to brass) 
Stans tape/Valve

Weight savings vs the Arch EX and DT competition was over 300 grams. Stiffness vs alloy rims is off the charts_

That's great you saved about 3/4 of a pound of rotational weight, but what was that total? IE is your ck/lb/sapim build wheelset 1500g? 1450g? CK's are not the lightest and I have basically the same setup but without the single speed. Just curious of what yours came to.


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

Total was 1535g. 685 front, 850 rear, with valves and tape. I know the hubs aren't the lightest, but I don't want to use any other hub for my SS.


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

vack said:


> Just got my LB Hookless 29er Rims built up and installed. Set the tires with a trail pump....yea a trail pump....crazy. Really nice quality Rims....if they're good this season going to get the road version for my SuperSix.


If the length I used for DT Revolutions was in stock in silver when I placed my order..Mine would have ended up looking quite a lot like yours. Very nice.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Lost 1.75 Pounds by putting those wheels on....however I had Lead Sled Giant PXC-2's on there previously. Going to get the two piece XT rotors next to lighten them up a bit more.....King Hubs are not the lightest on the market....but nothing rules the trail like the King Does.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

vack said:


> but nothing rules the trail like the King Does.


I think there are a few hubs that are just as obnoxiously loud.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Axe said:


> I think there are a few hubs that are just as obnoxiously loud.


I know my Hope 40t is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

I have the hookless 29ers on order. Excited to get these!


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## objectuser (Oct 27, 2013)

vack said:


> Lost 1.75 Pounds by putting those wheels on


Sounds like it must have been a good workout. My bathroom scale only does half pounds.

:winker:


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

objectuser said:


> Sounds like it must have been a good workout. My bathroom scale only does half pounds.
> 
> :winker:


Used a friends Bike Scale ;p Love the 3/4 Pounder.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Axe said:


> I think there are a few hubs that are just as obnoxiously loud.


 HAHA well played but none are as awesome!


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

objectuser said:


> Sounds like it must have been a good workout. My bathroom scale only does half pounds.
> 
> :winker:


Ha, that is funny Sh!# right there. I thought the same thing when I read it. The guy must have sweat like a horse putting those wheels on, but then again, I loose that much taking a dump. 

My wheels should be ready tomorrow. Specs and pics to come.


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## Dr Wankel (Oct 2, 2007)

S.O.B. said:


> but then again, I loose that much taking a dump.


Um... cats outta the bag :skep:

http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-off-topic/turd-906774.html


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## pedalhorn (Sep 7, 2013)

*Light bicycle rims*

Bought mine from LB last September for my Bronson C. I so happen to be visiting China and they sent it to my hotel. I'm very happy with their friendly service. A big shout out to Nancy to took care of my order.

Was a little skeptical about their built quality but about months of aggressive riding, they have held up great and true. I now have close to ten ride buddies using them. :thumbsup:


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## .RJ (Feb 22, 2009)

For those of you that have gone with the hookless rims - is there any difference in setting up tubeless? What about if you get a flat, will the tire come off of the rim?

My reference is Stan's rims, I've been using them for a long time on all my MTB wheels.... I passed off the hookless thing as a bit of a gimmick, but now Enve is on board.


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## pedalhorn (Sep 7, 2013)

I'd no issues with this and am able to inflate them with a foot pump.



.RJ said:


> For those of you that have gone with the hookless rims - is there any difference in setting up tubeless? What about if you get a flat, will the tire come off of the rim?
> 
> My reference is Stan's rims, I've been using them for a long time on all my MTB wheels.... I passed off the hookless thing as a bit of a gimmick, but now Enve is on board.


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

.RJ said:


> For those of you that have gone with the hookless rims - is there any difference in setting up tubeless? What about if you get a flat, will the tire come off of the rim?
> 
> My reference is Stan's rims, I've been using them for a long time on all my MTB wheels.... I passed off the hookless thing as a bit of a gimmick, but now Enve is on board.


So here's what I've noticed. The height of the wall seems higher so it's a lot harder to get the tire bead on the rim. It's also hard to get off. This is on Rovals btw. I have no experience with the LB rims, thus why I am reading this forum. Other than that it's the same as setting up any other tubeless wheel.


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

Has anyone built a Sub 1420g 29er 142+ chinese carbon wheelset yet? If so, what combo? I'd think one could come close with LB/(insert light hub here????/sapim laser combo should do it. Just curious of what hub people are doing that's a 142+ and sub 1420g

Wish I could find out what chinarello hubs Stans is using on the 3.30Ti. I've read chin haur but I don't see any on their site that have a conversion for a 142


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

Tubeless set up effortlessly, I used my compressor, but a hand pump would do it too. The bead took some effort to get on the rim, so I don't think that you would loose the tire in a flat situation. I have ridden mine on very chunky technical terrain with now burbs or issues at all.



.RJ said:


> For those of you that have gone with the hookless rims - is there any difference in setting up tubeless? What about if you get a flat, will the tire come off of the rim?
> 
> My reference is Stan's rims, I've been using them for a long time on all my MTB wheels.... I passed off the hookless thing as a bit of a gimmick, but now Enve is on board.


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

combfilter said:


> Has anyone built a Sub 1420g 29er 142+ chinese carbon wheelset yet? If so, what combo? I'd think one could come close with LB/(insert light hub here????/sapim laser combo should do it. Just curious of what hub people are doing that's a 142+ and sub 1420g
> 
> Wish I could find out what chinarello hubs Stans is using on the 3.30Ti. I've read chin haur but I don't see any on their site that have a conversion for a 142


Take a look at the weight for DT 180 or extralight (sp?) hubs. Both road hubs but I've seen people using them. Going with 28 spokes and alloy nipples would help as well. Center lock brakes could shave off a few grams also instead of 6 bolt.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

combfilter said:


> Has anyone built a Sub 1420g 29er 142+ chinese carbon wheelset yet? If so, what combo? I'd think one could come close with LB/(insert light hub here????/sapim laser combo should do it. Just curious of what hub people are doing that's a 142+ and sub 1420g
> 
> Wish I could find out what chinarello hubs Stans is using on the 3.30Ti. I've read chin haur but I don't see any on their site that have a conversion for a 142


What's so special about 1420g - got a bet with a friend or what? Anyway, I personally recommend based on years of experience the AmClassic hub set - the wheels will come in at ~1380g even with revos (assuming 360g rims). The front hub is equal to any. The rear is awesome too. If you want a few grams lighter, but lots more expensive - check out Tune hubs. Someone posted here with an LB/tune wheel set.


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

Motivated said:


> What's so special about 1420g - got a bet with a friend or what? Anyway, I personally recommend based on years of experience the AmClassic hub set - the wheels will come in at ~1380g even with revos (assuming 360g rims). The front hub is equal to any. The rear is awesome too. If you want a few grams lighter, but lots more expensive - check out Tune hubs. Someone posted here with an LB/tune wheel set.


Nothing special about 1420g.. Just seems to be where rovals are at.. Looking to see how the heck the stans valors are coming in at 1279-1320g per some reviews. I've checked out tune hubs.. Very spendy. I've looked at AC's also but I still can't tell if they are actually AC hubs or just some re-branded "open mold/chinarello" hub.

Looking for the tune build in this thread right now and not having luck. 5700+ post is hard to sort through.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

brimorga said:


> Take a look at the weight for DT 180 or extralight (sp?) hubs. Both road hubs but I've seen people using them.


 How would you attach brake rotors to road hubs?


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

combfilter said:


> Nothing special about 1420g.. Just seems to be where rovals are at.. Looking to see how the heck the stans valors are coming in at 1279-1320g per some reviews. I've checked out tune hubs.. Very spendy. I've looked at AC's also but I still can't tell if they are actually AC hubs or just some re-branded "open mold/chinarello" hub.
> 
> Looking for the tune build in this thread right now and not having luck. 5700+ post is hard to sort through.


I seem to remember someone found knock-off AC hubs, but the internals were different. I think the hubs are reasonably priced - and further so with discounts at Universal Cycles for example. And the flange offset should allow 1 spoke length, so you can buy a box and save $. Last I checked they are WAY less weight than any Novatec hub. You should be able to build an AC/LB wheelset yourself for ~$900.


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## miccc99 (Nov 2, 2010)

combfilter said:


> Has anyone built a Sub 1420g 29er 142+ chinese carbon wheelset yet? If so, what combo? I'd think one could come close with LB/(insert light hub here????/sapim laser combo should do it. Just curious of what hub people are doing that's a 142+ and sub 1420g
> 
> Wish I could find out what chinarello hubs Stans is using on the 3.30Ti. I've read chin haur but I don't see any on their site that have a conversion for a 142


My wheels came in at 1422g. DT 240 centre lock Fifteen, 142 rear spacers. Weighed built on kitchen scales, hubs, spokes, 12mm Al nipples, rims only. (5g less than predicted on DT spoke calculator). Rims LB XC 29 weight 364 and 366. revolution spokes.

Schwalbe snake skin 2.25 tyres were a real ***** to seat with 1 layer of stan's tape, but once up have stayed up. No burping at 23/26 psi. Noticeably quicker uphill than roval trail wheels and suspension seems better as well. think I saved about 500g with wheels/tyres combo.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

Maxxis tires(Ikon and Ardent) were a major pain in the ass to get seated also.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

Kawigreen99 said:


> Maxxis tires(Ikon and Ardent) were a major pain in the ass to get seated also.


With Light bike 35mm rims i got Ardent 2.25 tr and 2.4 exos to seat tubeless using a cheap floor pump and only a single wrap of 24mm 8896 tape over the spoke holes.


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## Kawigreen99 (Oct 9, 2011)

Ratt said:


> With Light bike 35mm rims i got Ardent 2.25 tr and 2.4 exos to seat tubeless using a cheap floor pump and only a single wrap of 24mm 8896 tape over the spoke holes.


Must be the 27mm hookless rim, because I've set these tires up on other rims(Crests, Chargers) with no headache.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

Yes! They are ready to roll. 
Here are my Light-Bicycle DH (460g) 35/30mm Hookless rims. DT Swiss 240 hubs with DT Aerolite spokes. The final setup is with 120tpi Surly Knard tires, tubeless.
I was able to roll my tires on by hand, no problem. Using a compressor, they popped into shape with no problems.
Weight with Stans tape (double wrapped 28m) n' valves is ~1690g.


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## Diegobustillos (Dec 21, 2008)

So my Nextue Carbon Rims Cracked today After 4 months of use.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Diegobustillos said:


> So my Nextue Carbon Rims Cracked today After 4 months of use.


Please post a picture if you can and an explanation of the "incident", as have some Nextie rims.
Mine are the 35mm wide ones, which rims do you have?


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

S.O.B. said:


> Yes! They are ready to roll.
> Here are my Light-Bicycle DH (460g) 35/30mm Hookless rims. DT Swiss 240 hubs with DT Aerolite spokes. The final setup is with 120tpi Surly Knard tires, tubeless.
> I was able to roll my tires on by hand, no problem. Using a compressor, they popped into shape with no problems.
> Weight with Stans tape (double wrapped 28m) n' valves is ~1690g.
> ...


Awesome! What bike?


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## Diegobustillos (Dec 21, 2008)

*650 B Nextie Carbon Rims. Broke.*














There are my nextie carbon rims, 4 months olds, cracked on rocky terrain.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Diegobustillos said:


> View attachment 885076
> View attachment 885077
> 
> There are my nextie carbon rims, 4 months olds, cracked on rocky terrain.


How low of air pressure were you running at the time ?


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

Diegobustillos said:


> So my Nextue Carbon Rims Cracked today After 4 months of use.


Rock strike? Did you know it when it happened (heard the strike? )

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

Motivated said:


> Awesome! What bike?


'The' Carver Gnarvester.









Took her out for the maiden voyage today. Wheels were perfectly stiff. Started at 18 psi (good) and after several miles I dropped it down to 16 (better), but think the best (for me ~180 w/pack) might even be 15, or dare I say 14? Don't want to go so low that I am constantly worried about a rock strike (sorry Diego, that sucks!).


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

S.O.B. said:


> Yes! They are ready to roll.
> Here are my Light-Bicycle DH (460g) 35/30mm Hookless rims. DT Swiss 240 hubs with DT Aerolite spokes. The final setup is with 120tpi Surly Knard tires, tubeless.
> I was able to roll my tires on by hand, no problem. Using a compressor, they popped into shape with no problems.
> Weight with Stans tape (double wrapped 28m) n' valves is ~1690g.
> ...


Do you recall your ERD measurements and/or spoke lengths?
My rims showed up on Saturday, calculated the ERD, averaged 592.. Just wanting to compare, make sure I'm in the ballpark.


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

Oh and I'm using 350 hubs so those measurements should be the same


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

S.O.B. said:


> 'The' Carver Gnarvester.
> 
> View attachment 885311
> 
> ...


Cool bike!
I run 2.35" tires at 20psi. I've had a few rim strikes at 18-19psi, but could not find any damage or evidence. I avoid those pressures now, but I'm drawn to the neo-fatbike and can imagine getting a bike like yours, but with gears, in the future. I really think these rims are a perfect balance of weight, width, strength and cost.


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## slug3135 (Nov 5, 2013)

Just got my 27mm 32h hookless wheels. LB said they were 338g and 356g when they shipped them (rims only). Laced up with SuperComp spokes and dt 240s hubs they came in at 1477g.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Diegobustillos said:


> View attachment 885076
> View attachment 885077
> 
> There are my nextie carbon rims, 4 months olds, cracked on rocky terrain.


Yikes! Bummer! I say check with the mfg and see if they have a crash replacement price.

... and yeah... hit a fist sized rock hard enough and it would trash any rim.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

JeroenK said:


> Well said. To add another thing: I allready bought LB rims, but would have been interested in the Atomik design, if it were not for Yamon's blatant hate campaign.
> 
> That said, is it a fact that Yamon is affiliated to Atomik, or just speculation on this forum? No matter how strong the signals are, if they are just that, a theory based on a couple of observations and it turns out to be untrue after all, it's very sorry for this new brand.


Its now confirmed... if you start looking at all of Yamons posts, he changed his name to Atomik Carbon.. yet all the arrogant posts he made in the past still show his quotes.. such as: http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-650b/65...ims-grand-opening-871009-24.html#post10966635


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

vokeswaagin said:


> Do you recall your ERD measurements and/or spoke lengths?
> My rims showed up on Saturday, calculated the ERD, averaged 592.. Just wanting to compare, make sure I'm in the ballpark.


I just talked to my shop owner and his wheel builder was not available, but he did say that the build required 4mm longer spokes than what were called for. On one rim he had to use longer nipples... thus leaving me with a front rim with silver nipples and a rear rim with black. He said he would redo it later, but I decided to leave it (the less the spokes are messed with, the better). 
Sorry, that was not much help, but I had read about other issues, so that is why I let someone else (I trust) get it done.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

The light-bicycles 29er hookless 35mm rims have an erd of 589mm. My wheels built up fine w/ this...


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## AZmike (Jul 1, 2010)

cytoe said:


> The light-bicycles 29er hookless 35mm rims have an erd of 589mm. My wheels built up fine w/ this...


That's good that you got it to work, but 589 mm is to the nipple seat so I'd expect your spokes to be just a little short. Did they reach the bottom of the nipple slot? I got 592-593 mm measuring across the rim with a pair of spokes in nipples.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

AZmike said:


> That's good that you got it to work, but 589 mm is to the nipple seat so I'd expect your spokes to be just a little short. Did they reach the bottom of the nipple slot? I got 592-593 mm measuring across the rim with a pair of spokes in nipples.


Using the dtswiss spoke calculator, my wheels built up fine. I'm no expert, but this is the 6th pair of wheels I've built (all w/ this calculator).


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## Diegobustillos (Dec 21, 2008)

Warranty Replacement is on its way. Only had to pay 45 for shipping. Never going below 25 psi on these things again.


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

cytoe said:


> The light-bicycles 29er hookless 35mm rims have an erd of 589mm. My wheels built up fine w/ this...


Mine definitely do not have an ERD of 589, but that is why you should always measure them 
Had another tech at work measure them, also got an average of 592..


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

cytoe said:


> Using the dtswiss spoke calculator, my wheels built up fine. I'm no expert, but this is the 6th pair of wheels I've built (all w/ this calculator).


The calculator is not the issue... it's the data you feed into it.
For building wheels have a relative tolerance to spoke length. Durability is different.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> The calculator is not the issue... it's the data you feed into it.
> For building wheels have a relative tolerance to spoke length. Durability is different.


There is a tendency for people to get so geeked about their new wheels that they order spokes while waiting for the rims. Huge mistake. Get the rims and hubs, measure, then buy your spokes.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

My experience is that carbon wheels tend to flex a little when you build them up (the flex is in the vicinity of the spoke holes). Say you measure an aluminum and a carbon wheel at 600. Aluminum doesn't flex much and carbon flexes a little. So if you use 600 for the aluminum wheel and 598 for the carbon wheel, by the time you build them and tension them the amount of threads on the bottom of the nipple will be about the same.

I am sure that a whole bunch of people will flame me, but I have built wheels and looked at the amount of threads left and this is generally true. If they do careful observation, they will see it. Also, all my carbon wheels were Chinese not EDGE, which appear to have much stiffer hole areas but I have never built an EDGE wheel.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Also, all my builds were 29er not 26 or 27


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

brimorga said:


> Take a look at the weight for DT 180 or extralight (sp?) hubs. Both road hubs but I've seen people using them. Going with 28 spokes and alloy nipples would help as well. Center lock brakes could shave off a few grams also instead of 6 bolt.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both DT 180s and Extralights are made in MTB versions...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Le Duke said:


> Both DT 180s and Extralights are made in MTB versions...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ooooh, sexy! I love the look of low flange hubs. Not a big fan of white stuff, but I would own a set if I had budget for them... and I was the kinda guy who spend $300 on lunch every day. I love centerlock, too.









but $825? is that right?!? Yikes!!

DT Swiss 180 Carbon Ceramic Center Lock Mountain Rear Hub - Wheelbuilder.com


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## akazan (Jul 9, 2005)

*35/30mm LB rims*



S.O.B. said:


> Yes! They are ready to roll.
> Here are my Light-Bicycle DH (460g) 35/30mm Hookless rims. DT Swiss 240 hubs with DT Aerolite spokes. The final setup is with 120tpi Surly Knard tires, tubeless.
> I was able to roll my tires on by hand, no problem. Using a compressor, they popped into shape with no problems.
> Weight with Stans tape (double wrapped 28m) n' valves is ~1690g.
> ...


S.O.B.,

Are those rims All Mountain with 35mm outside and 30mm inside?


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## MudInMyEars (Apr 4, 2005)

Whew! Finally read through this entire thread. Lots of good info and I thank you all for posting your results. It has been very helpful to me. I did notice a couple of slight detours -- nipple fishing, FEA analysis, mud slinging, etc. Some of those were entertaining and to be expected in such a long-running thread on the internets.

As for me, my LB "Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible)" arrived yesterday. I must say they sure look nice. I will measure the ERD and order up some spokes (DT Comp/brass nips). I have a set of Hope Pro II Evo (42t) hubs I won in a raffle to complete the build using Roger Munson's Wheelbuilding book for building bicycle wheels. I will set them up tubeless with 3M Scotch 8898 tape and American Classic valve stems. These will go on a new Salsa 2013 Spearfish frame (closeout sale!) I am building up.

Sorry for the lack of useful information, but at least I'll be subscribed for updates. ;-)

-mud


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

vokeswaagin said:


> Mine definitely do not have an ERD of 589, but that is why you should always measure them
> Had another tech at work measure them, also got an average of 592..


How did you measure them and why they are not 589-ERD as announced?


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## AZmike (Jul 1, 2010)

The nipple bed diameter of the rim is 589 mm in the drawing. Spokes should extend to the bottom of the slot in the nipple which is 1.5-2 mm past the surface of the nipple that contacts the rim. 589 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 592 (if you're going to use the drawing for an ERD estimate). Measuring across the rims with spokes threaded into nipples will give you another ERD that will include any differences between your rim and the drawing. In my case with the 30-35 width as well as vokeswaagin's experience the LB rims are consistent with their drawings. It's just the ERD label on the drawing that is misleading. My understanding is that when is comes to determining spoke lengths, ERD describes the diameter of the ends of the spokes, not the diameter of the inward-facing surface of the nipples.


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

Makes sense to me.

I measured mine using two spokes of equal length with nipples threaded on so that the end of the spoke is flush with the bottom of the nipple slot.. then grabbed the two hooked ends of the spokes with a digital caliper. Spoke1 + Spoke2 + caliper reading = ERD

Also measured using the wheelsmith method to try it out and got pretty much the same result.. averaged 592.

The rims built up great, spokes are very equal in tension per their respective side. The wheels are STIFF.

DT 350 CL 15/TA
DT 350 CL 12x142 XD
DT Competition
Brass DT Nipples & RnR Nipple Cream

and a very respectable 1683g!

































Wrap of tape and popped in the stock specialized tubeless valves,
2bliss ready 2.3 Purgatory and 2.3 Butcher tires seated up with a series of ping/snaps and good to go!


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

New shoes - internal nipples and LB hookless 29er 27-24


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## jbet (Nov 13, 2013)

*Yoeleo 35mm wide rims?*

Just wondering anyone has tried out 35mm wide yoeleo rims???Wide MTB Rims - Quality Carbon 29er 35mm Wide MTB Rims Clincher 23.5mm Yoeleo


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## pdqmach26 (Jul 24, 2011)

vokeswaagin said:


> Makes sense to me.
> 
> I measured mine using two spokes of equal length with nipples threaded on so that the end of the spoke is flush with the bottom of the nipple slot.. then grabbed the two hooked ends of the spokes with a digital caliper. Spoke1 + Spoke2 + caliper reading = ERD
> 
> ...


Are your rims the Light-Bicycle 29er carbon 35mm hookless ones?


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

Yes, 30mm (35mm external width.. Which is useless & misleading )


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## pdqmach26 (Jul 24, 2011)

vokeswaagin said:


> Yes, 30mm (35mm external width.. Which is useless & misleading )


Wow, 1683grams is great for that build. Your setup with hubs, spokes,and nipples is exactly what mine will be. Thanks for the info!


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

vokeswaagin said:


> DT 350 CL 15/TA
> DT 350 CL 12x142 XD
> DT Competition
> Brass DT Nipples & RnR Nipple Cream


Nice. I have a set of wheels that I purchased last year with DT 350 Straight-pull 6-bolt hubs. I have thought about replacing the current rims, DT XR400's, with the 30mm inner diameter carbon rims that you have.

Have you purchased the 36 tooth ratchet upgrade for your DT350's?


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

akazan said:


> S.O.B.,
> 
> Are those rims All Mountain with 35mm outside and 30mm inside?


No and Yes. I opted for the beefier DH version which came in at just over 460g each per rim. They are the 35mm outer/30mm inner hookless rims.


----------



## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

jbet said:


> Just wondering anyone has tried out 35mm wide yoeleo rims???Wide MTB Rims - Quality Carbon 29er 35mm Wide MTB Rims Clincher 23.5mm Yoeleo


I have a pair of those rims, but I bought them from Nextie.
I'm happy with them so far.


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

journey said:


> Have you purchased the 36 tooth ratchet upgrade for your DT350's?


No, I spaced it.. Ill probably get it ordered up today though. Thanks for the reminder!


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

vokeswaagin said:


> No, I spaced it.. Ill probably get it ordered up today though. Thanks for the reminder!


I'd get the 54t ratchet upgrade from trek (part #436413...you need 2 btw). The engagement improvement is noticeable coming from the 36t. Anyone interested in my 36t kit?


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Holy cow this thread is long. Has anyone tried using the straight pull Novatec hubs? DS51SB and DS52SB to be exact. 

My girlfriend is hell bent on buying some wheels to replace the Giant P-XCR29er 1's on her Anthem. Looking for a lightweight XC race wheel. I was thinking of trying the LB 29 hookless rim with those hubs and some of the Pillar Aero spokes. Looks like they would weigh in at roughly 1465 gm. I am assuming 360 gm each for the rims, 28 spokes F/R at 4.75 gm each, and 56 nipples at .3 gm each. Any advice on this build?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Holy cow this thread is long. Has anyone tried using the straight pull Novatec hubs? DS51SB and DS52SB to be exact.
> 
> My girlfriend is hell bent on buying some wheels to replace the Giant P-XCR29er 1's on her Anthem. Looking for a lightweight XC race wheel. I was thinking of trying the LB 29 hookless rim with those hubs and some of the Pillar Aero spokes. Looks like they would weigh in at roughly 1465 gm. I am assuming 360 gm each for the rims, 28 spokes F/R at 4.75 gm each, and 56 nipples at .3 gm each. Any advice on this build?


Where do you intend to get the straight pull spokes from?


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## GoldenDragoon (Apr 21, 2013)

On the subject of spokes, anyone know where u can get Pillar X-tra lite ti spokes from?


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

AliExpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles from China.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

My bad. I thought Pillar had straight pull spokes. I didn't look at their site close enough. Guess I will have to go with the DT Swiss Aerolites. 

Still interested in any info on the straight pull Novatec hubs.


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

cytoe said:


> I'd get the 54t ratchet upgrade from trek (part #436413...you need 2 btw). The engagement improvement is noticeable coming from the 36t. Anyone interested in my 36t kit?


Where did you get this new ratchets and $$$?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

patrul said:


> Where did you get this new ratchets and $$$?





cytoe said:


> I'd get the 54t ratchet upgrade *from trek (part #436413*...you need 2 btw). The engagement improvement is noticeable coming from the 36t. Anyone interested in my 36t kit?


Wonder where he got? I have a feeling if you called a Trek dealer and gave them the part number, they could give you a price.

Man people have gotten lazy.


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

patrul said:


> Where did you get this new ratchets and $$$?


I have read they charge $60 per ratchet, so $120.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

cytoe said:


> I'd get the 54t ratchet upgrade from trek (part #436413...you need 2 btw). The engagement improvement is noticeable coming from the 36t. Anyone interested in my 36t kit?


Wuh wuh wait a sec... so, you mean to say that our DT Swiss star ratchets that are 16 point stock, the DT upgrade is 36pt (which I have on all my DT hubs... great upgrade, btw!) can be upgraded further to 54 POE?

That is awesome!!

So, what can I expect to pay for this upgrayedd? I actually have one hub that is not upgraded to >16POE (yet).

Thanks!


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Wuh wuh wait a sec... so, you mean to say that our DT Swiss star ratchets that are 16 point stock, the DT upgrade is 36pt (which I have on all my DT hubs... great upgrade, btw!) can be upgraded further to 54 POE?
> 
> That is awesome!!
> 
> ...


yup. all good except the price... $128 for 54t upgrade ($60ea x 2 + tax). It's worth it to me though...I wanted faster engagement to minimize pedal clunk in the chunk.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

cytoe said:


> yup. all good except the price... $128 for 54t upgrade ($60ea x 2 + tax). It's worth it to me though...I wanted faster engagement to minimize pedal clunk in the chunk.


Dang... and I thought $80 for the DT Swiss 36 pt was pricy... they were $35 for the longest time, then shot up. Maybe if I kill the star ratchets I have I'll do that.


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> Wuh wuh wait a sec... so, you mean to say that our DT Swiss star ratchets that are 16 point stock, the DT upgrade is 36pt (which I have on all my DT hubs... great upgrade, btw!) can be upgraded further to 54 POE?
> 
> That is awesome!!
> 
> ...


18 x 1 = 18
18 x 2 = 36
18 x 3 = 54


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## M0riarty (Aug 2, 2007)

Just received my set of LB Hookless 29er rims today. 32H, UD Matte, 27mm wide, XC. 342g/352g on my scale.

Ordered April 3, shipped April 19, received April 22. Just under 3 weeks all-in. Is this a record?

Will be built up with DT Revs and King Hubs. Can't wait!


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Noticed that carbonal rims have a metal wire in the bead. Searching for more feedback, not much found - gimmick, or useful?

Seems like a nice wide rim, typical chinese direct price.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Axe said:


> Noticed that carbonal rims have a metal wire in the bead. Searching for more feedback, not much found - gimmick, or useful?
> 
> Seems like a nice wide rim, typical chinese direct price.


Carbonal, Nextie, & XMIplay appear to be all the same, just different sellers. I chose Nextie because the communication was excellent and the warranty is 2 years. Not many miles on them yet but so far they are great.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Axe said:


> Noticed that carbonal rims have a metal wire in the bead. Searching for more feedback, not much found - gimmick, or useful?
> 
> Seems like a nice wide rim, typical chinese direct price.


I would say gimmick. Less carbon and a wire isn't going to prevent the carbon from damage if you have a rock strike.

I'd think hookless would be better considering the layup appears to be stronger.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

aosty said:


> 18 x 1 = 18
> 18 x 2 = 36
> 18 x 3 = 54


...and all with free bonus diminishing returns included!


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> ...and all with free bonus diminishing returns included!


18 = 1/1 beef
36 = 1/2 beef
54 = 1/3 beef


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## jwick (Jan 31, 2013)

Axe said:


> Noticed that carbonal rims have a metal wire in the bead. Searching for more feedback, not much found - gimmick, or useful?
> 
> Seems like a nice wide rim, typical chinese direct price.


My guess is the wire is an easy way to build up a hook for the rim profile. TwoTone is probably right and its being spun as a marketing ploy. Might as well point it out as a value added product if you can spin it that way. Then again, I could be totally wrong and it really has some structural benefit.

I'm going with the hookless variety regardless. I'm liking the added meat in the edge. Looks like a winner considering the rocks in my area.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Did you guys see that YaMon has a hookless prototype going with his co. Atomic now? There is a new article on the rims over on BikeRumor. Looks like either the super big-hooked model wasn't working out as planned, or else it might just be that market pressure is really swinging in the hookless direction now, after some initial skepticism, so companies may just be worried about being left out. They apparently still use that layer of "vibration damping" material that was shown in the first design.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

TheKaiser said:


> Did you guys see that YaMon has a hookless prototype going with his co. Atomic now? There is a new article on the rims over on BikeRumor. Looks like either the super big-hooked model wasn't working out as planned, or else it might just be that market pressure is really swinging in the hookless direction now, after some initial skepticism, so companies may just be worried about being left out. They apparently still use that layer of "vibration damping" material that was shown in the first design.


Yea, Yamon changed his name on this site to Atomik Carbon..


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

TheKaiser said:


> Did you guys see that YaMon has a hookless prototype going with his co. Atomic now? There is a new article on the rims over on BikeRumor. Looks like either the super big-hooked model wasn't working out as planned, or else it might just be that market pressure is really swinging in the hookless direction now, after some initial skepticism, so companies may just be worried about being left out. They apparently still use that layer of "vibration damping" material that was shown in the first design.


Is this the doo$hnozzle that first tried to make money by importing LB and marking them up, then didn't like the business so started trashing them everywhere, has been railing against hookless rims all over this forum, making s**t up out of thin air and trying to sound like an expert on everything from wheelbuilding to corrosion and anodizing, and was going to get into carbon lacrosse sticks for "rich morons who don't pay attention" (the way he referred to potential customers)?
That's somebody I want to support for sure.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> Is this the doo$hnozzle that first tried to make money by importing LB and marking them up, then didn't like the business so started trashing them everywhere, has been railing against hookless rims all over this forum, making s**t up out of thin air and trying to sound like an expert on everything from wheelbuilding to corrosion and anodizing, and was going to get into carbon lacrosse sticks for "rich morons who don't pay attention" (the way he referred to potential customers)?
> That's somebody I want to support for sure.


Know whats even funnier? The fact that Yamon changed his name to his official "Atomik carbon" business name.. yet all his posts still exist of him trashing the same designs he is now promoting.. and now all those posts point to his new business....



Atomik Carbon said:


> This hookless thing is just plain stupid and wrong on so many fronts......First of all Specialized did this as a cost savings measure, not an upgrade for performance. Second, when the rim loses the bead hook, the only thing keeping the tire on is the air pressure, lose the air pressure and the tire will burp or roll off. Those of you that are running higher pressures need not worry. Third, when you have a bead hook, the tire AND the bead hook share the load and work together. You are not stressing the tire alone. Fourth, by losing the bead hook you are losing lateral stiffness. The thickness of the bead accomplishes this, just like how an angle extrusion works....
> 
> To answer the ridiculous statement that cars don't, have bead hooks.....well a car tire also has much stiffer sidewall and beads. Racing Off Road trucks do in fact have bead locks.......so stupid analogy. Don't think that every new development is a good one, some are just plain stupid.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Ha. I just came here to post up about the Atomik hookless rims. Oh, the joy it brings my dark heart.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

Slow Danger said:


> Ha. I just came here to post up about the Atomik hookless rims. Oh, the joy it brings my dark heart.


Keep reading, there are numerous quotes by Atomik Carbon and how bad hookless rims are...



Atomik Carbon said:


> Personally I would stay away from any lip less design. Here is a posting from Maxxis engineer B Holwell on that subect:
> 
> Yes. Another thing to consider is that the aramid bead of a typical folding tire or tubeless / tubeless ready tire is elastic. A larger volume tire will see a higher hoop stress, and subsequently more bead stretch, at the same inflation pressure compared to a smaller volume tire. More bead stretch can lead to rim failure as the bead moves up and away from the bead seat shelf. This puts more leverage on the rim, and can lead to rim failure. (Pretty cool to see in slow motion.)


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

SandSpur said:


> Keep reading, there are numerous quotes by Atomik Carbon and how bad hookless rims are...


Oh, I've read a number of those posts. Argued a few times as well. Such fun, Ya Mon.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

SandSpur said:


> Know whats even funnier?


That's pretty f**cking hilarious... and disgusting.

"Hey (idiots), buy a product from me I don't believe in and shamelessly publicly disparage (because I think you're too ignorant or stupid to put two and two together) so I can make a buck off of you."


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Yeah, I was trying to cut the guy some slack at first. After badmouthing LB, and hookless designs, he did at least go ahead and produce some protos with a radically different design with a huge f-ing bead hook, and presumably from a different factory. I thought, at least he is being consistent with his stated beliefs that bead hook designs are superior and reduce the risk of damage from rock strikes. But now, after all of that soap boxing and grand standing, these new protos (his original design hasn't even hit the market yet as far as I know) look almost identical to LBs hookless models! It is tough to tell from the photos, but they don't even appear to have much of a bead bump/barb/lock on the inside of the bead shelf.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

TheKaiser said:


> Yeah, I was trying to cut the guy some slack at first. After badmouthing LB, and hookless designs, he did at least go ahead and produce some protos with a radically different design with a huge f-ing bead hook, and presumably from a different factory. I thought, at least he is being consistent with his stated beliefs that bead hook designs are superior and reduce the risk of damage from rock strikes. But now, after all of that soap boxing and grand standing, these new protos (his original design hasn't even hit the market yet as far as I know) look almost identical to LBs hookless models! It is tough to tell from the photos, but they don't even appear to have much of a bead bump/barb/lock on the inside of the bead shelf.


I doubt there is anything "his" about the design or even his "business"... There's no way it was his money he planned to drop on an inventory of LB rims.

This is an insincere d00$hbag trying to make a quick buck with no value to offer... a snake oil salesman, only with no skill. :nonod:


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

He wanted to create the narrative that hookless rims were inferior so he could try to sell hooked carbon. Nobody puts that much emotional investment into something unless money is involved. At some point, he had product to protect. Perhaps he was a true believer, and maybe business partners swayed him towards hookless? That, or he's a callous schmuck selling rebranded Specialized rims.

Frankly, I trust a Chinese factory exploiting trademarks more than this guy.


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## doghead (Feb 23, 2008)

*Wide Rims (35mm) Do Not Require Hooks, Hooks act as Stress Risers*



Atomik Carbon said:


> Funny how the internet makes everyone an expert....so let me put it in a way that is irrefutable and put you in a position that will make you look stupid to argue...
> 
> 1. Specialized has said in no undeniable terms that they did this to reduce the cost. Not for any improvements to the design.
> 
> ...


Wide Rims (35mm) Do Not Require Hooks, Hooks act as Stress Risers (Std failure point on every carbon rim with them), narrow rims need them because they pinch the bead Too Tightly, requiring a pinch point Not needed on a wide rim, look at the Derby rims ( & any of the new wide rim US explanation's)


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

doghead said:


> Wide Rims (35mm) Do Not Require Hooks, Hooks act as Stress Risers (Std failure point on every carbon rim with them), narrow rims need them because they pinch the bead Too Tightly, requiring a pinch point Not needed on a wide rim, look at the Derby rims ( & any of the new wide rim US explanation's)


BS. Total BS. This is about inflation pressure, intended usage, and tire design/construction. Currently no modern performance bicycle tire is intended to be used on a rim without a bead hook.


----------



## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

Shiggy - I guess your key word is intended. I certainly don't see a direct link between rim width and hookless, but I believe a quality tire with Kevlar bead does not need a hooked rim especially at low pressure - which yes, is facilitated by wider rims. 

Specialized makes tires and now hookless rims - can buy a bike with both from my LBS. So, what are you saying?

For many years, and even today to a lesser extent - tires were not intended, designed or even considered for converted (Stan's) tubeless use. Doesn't mean it doesn't work. 

I use a wide hookless rim and converted tubeless tires. Just had a great ride with ample traction and no failures despite several near rim strikes (20psi) on jagged granite and limestone strewn trails.


----------



## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

shiggy said:


> BS. Total BS. This is about inflation pressure, intended usage, and tire design/construction. Currently no modern performance bicycle tire is intended to be used on a rim without a bead hook.


I would agree, that no tire was designed specifically for hookless rims, however I think that the larger companies' hookless designs certainly took that into account and the shapes were optimized to work as well as possible.


----------



## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Motivated said:


> Shiggy - I guess your key word is intended. I certainly don't see a direct link between rim width and beadless, but I believe a quality tire with Kevlar bead does not need a hooked rim especially at low pressure - which yes, is facilitated by wider rims.
> 
> Specialized makes tires and now hookless rims - can buy a bike with both from my LBS. So, what are you saying?
> 
> ...


Doghead was claiming the 35mm width is what negated the need for bead hooks. Not the case.

The Specialized hookless are far from that wide. AFAIK there is no significant construction difference in the Specialized tires.

The are many odd tire/rim design combos outside the industry standards that _can_ work, but it does not make them reliable or easy to setup. Margins for error can be small with rims and tires. Best results are usually with rims and tires designed to be used together, being used in the way intended.

And the only thing I would use on a Notubes rim is a hacksaw.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Atomik Carbon said:


> Funny how the internet makes everyone an expert....so let me put it in a way that is irrefutable and put you in a position that will make you look stupid to argue...
> 
> 1. Specialized has said in no undeniable terms that they did this to reduce the cost. Not for any improvements to the design.
> 
> ...


lol


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Atomik Carbon said:


> 2. There are no major rim manufacturers out there with all their engineers and manufacturing abilities that has adopted this hookless rim. Can you ask yourself why ?? or do you profess to be more knowledgeable than Enve, Easton, Reynolds, I9, Sram, and the ones I don't even know about.
> 
> Well??


Since your post ENVE launched hookless as well as your own dumb ass.
Well??


----------



## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> Since your post ENVE launched hookless as well as your own dumb ass.
> Well??


He wont respond. Now that he changed his name to his official business name he has to try to gain some sort of reputation and there isnt any way he can explain his previous contradictory posts without further tarnishing his already low reputation.


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## doghead (Feb 23, 2008)

*Response to "BS" "wide hookless rims"*



shiggy said:


> BS. Total BS. This is about inflation pressure, intended usage, and tire design/construction. Currently no modern performance bicycle tire is intended to be used on a rim without a bead hook.


"BS" Great Response to "wide hookless carbon rims"
What a Screwball!
Sorry but I will go with the engineers from these 4 US manufactures noted below. 
The information they have provided, explains both my view & my own racing experience. 
Thank You!

WIDE rims

Hot Product: ENVE launches new MSERIES rims, wheelsets | Mountain Bike Review

Hot News: Ibis launches line of ultra-wide carbon wheels | Mountain Bike Review

Specialized Bicycle Components


----------



## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Got some new LB rims to build up. One is a replacement for one that I cracked, there is some corrosion on the aluminum nipples that I built it up with 2 years ago. The new rims are drilled slightly larger on the inner surface, large enough now to get some nipple washers into. Do you think the stainless washers would stop the corosion?? I would use brass but if the washers will stop it I would rather save the minuscule amount of weight, plus I have plenty of aluminum nips.


----------



## doghead (Feb 23, 2008)

AKamp said:


> Got some new LB rims to build up. One is a replacement for one that I cracked, there is some corrosion on the aluminum nipples that I built it up with 2 years ago. The new rims are drilled slightly larger on the inner surface, large enough now to get some nipple washers into. Do you think the stainless washers would stop the corosion?? I would use brass but if the washers will stop it I would rather save the minuscule amount of weight, plus I have plenty of aluminum nips.


To set up a galvanic cell between two conducting materials (metals or graphite), the two metals must have differing potentials or be more or less 'noble' than each other.
The more noble metal (Carbon cathode) is protected as the less noble metal (Al anode) sacrificially corrodes. SS will be much better then raw Al, as far as corrosion is concerned, I use black anodized nipples myself, any insulate between the Al to direct Carbon contact (acting as a moisture barrier) reduces the problem to the micro-porosity in the anodizing finish on the nipples. Hope that helps?


----------



## doghead (Feb 23, 2008)

What type of LB rim (wide MTB?), what type of failure, & the conditions that caused it??


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Anyone tired of cracking the wider AM rim sidewall who have gone hookless and had the rims hold up better? I had my second AM wider cracked from rock strikes, an I really wonder if I shoukd reconsider the whole carbon rim concept...


----------



## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

doghead said:


> To set up a galvanic cell between two conducting materials (metals or graphite), the two metals must have differing potentials or be more or less 'noble' than each other.
> The more noble metal (Carbon cathode) is protected as the less noble metal (Al anode) sacrificially corrodes. SS will be much better then raw Al, as far as corrosion is concerned, I use black anodized nipples myself, any insulate between the Al to direct Carbon contact (acting as a moisture barrier) reduces the problem to the micro-porosity in the anodizing finish on the nipples. Hope that helps?


So the washers should help then? On the nipples that corroded it was all on the heads of the nipple and seemed to have started where the anodization had worn off. There didn't seem to be any corrosion on the shaft of the nipple. So I'll build them up with the washers and see if it helps at all. If not I can always swap out to brass.


----------



## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

doghead said:


> What type of LB rim (wide MTB?), what type of failure, & the conditions that caused it??


They were the first gen AM wide. Took a pretty hard rock strike. Certainly would have destroyed an aluminum rim as well, only difference is I kept riding this for a year. I had to use a tube however and it probably only got another 3-400 miles. So I decide that since I was ordering another set (hookless 27) for my SS to replace some crests, I might as well order another to replace the cracked one.

I have to say that the new hookless rims look very nice. Can't wait to get them built up.

Also replacing a DT carbon hoop on my sons bike. The DTs were total crap, very disappointed in them. They were no where close in quality as far as I am concerned. The one nice thing they do is place a small stainless press in nipple washer. I'll see if there is any corrosion on those ones when I rebuild them.


----------



## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

AKamp said:


> So the washers should help then? On the nipples that corroded it was all on the heads of the nipple and seemed to have started where the anodization had worn off. There didn't seem to be any corrosion on the shaft of the nipple. So I'll build them up with the washers and see if it helps at all. If not I can always swap out to brass.


Stainless steel will corroded bare aluminum too and may not help the corrosion issue any. Should help with any bulging though.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

So, everybody is going hookless now?


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

shiggy said:


> BS. Total BS. This is about inflation pressure, intended usage, and tire design/construction. Currently no modern performance bicycle tire is intended to be used on a rim without a bead hook.


The only thing that I currently trust are tubeless ready tires on UST or UST shaped rims (like Frequency)

But I am sure Specialized did test it enough.


----------



## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Axe, I understand you concern with hookless but look at the tire industry without carbon or even hookless type rims. 

Some tires just don't work with certain rims. Even if they are UST tires with the proper rims. 

There is a ton of specific manufacturing differences from one manufacturer to the next. It is just one of those things where you have to find the tire that works best with the wheel you have and works best with your terrain, riding style, ect.


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

doghead said:


> Wide Rims (35mm) Do Not Require Hooks, Hooks act as Stress Risers (Std failure point on every carbon rim with them), narrow rims need them because they pinch the bead Too Tightly, requiring a pinch point Not needed on a wide rim, look at the Derby rims ( & any of the new wide rim US explanation's)


Sorry Doghead but I cannot see in _any_ of the below links that you've provided _anywhere_ where they validate your statement that "Wide Rims(35mm) Do Not Require Hooks" .

I was under the impression that the removal of the "hook" was to remove a "weak point" (due to the angle of the "inverted J" of the "hook" creating a stress riser point) in a given rims construction .

The removal of the hook then necessitated an increase in rim wall thickness which was two fold .

1. To reduce the chance of a "snake bite" (narrow/thin things cut through stuff easier than thick/fat things)

2. An increase in strength (removing the "fold over" of the "inverted J" of the "hook" reduces strength) Similarly a folded piece of paper is stronger than a flat sheet .

I also believe that when removing the "hook" manufacturers _had_ to increase the bead seat diameter to compensate for the reduction in tyre security that removing the "hook" caused .

A tighter tyre to rim interface would surely make for a more secure tubeless and less prone to burping mechanism would it not ?

Could you illustrate your statement by providing more specific information please rather than just links .

I'm not trying to be a major douche here , sorry if I come across that way .

I'm genuinely trying to learn something .



doghead said:


> "BS" Great Response to "wide hookless carbon rims"
> What a Screwball!
> Sorry but I will go with the engineers from these 4 US manufactures noted below.
> The information they have provided, explains both my view & my own racing experience.
> ...


Fat Biker


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

Does anyone try out XMiplay hookless rims?


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

BXCc said:


> Stainless steel will corroded bare aluminum too and may not help the corrosion issue any. Should help with any bulging though.


Aluminum nipples have been used with rims with stainless eyelets for years though without significant issues so I dont think the stainless/aluminum is much of an issue. Just not sure how the carbon would factor in with it.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

jkidd_39 said:


> Axe, I understand you concern with hookless but look at the tire industry without carbon or even hookless type rims.
> 
> Some tires just don't work with certain rims. Even if they are UST tires with the proper rims.
> 
> There is a ton of specific manufacturing differences from one manufacturer to the next. It is just one of those things where you have to find the tire that works best with the wheel you have and works best with your terrain, riding style, ect.


The only rims I have had bad compatibility issues with are new Stan's EX; ...and their older ones to a lesser extend. Speaking of dubious ideas - this tiny hook and non standard seat to force non-tubeless tires to seal. And yet, so many people on it, and similar designs.
If those hookless one have seat of a proper size, especially with a beat of a ridge, like on UST to keep it near the bead for sealing, and tall enough bead, I can imagine it working better than Stan's shape.


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## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

Spoke question:

Wheel specifics is a new game for me...so pardon the rookie questions if that is the case.

I'm going to be getting the 650b hookless from carbonbicycle.cc (same as LB just cheaper, AFAIK).

The spoke options are Pillar and something called "Sbourg round" whatever that is.

Anyway....there are two Pillar options:

the 1423 and the 1420. Obviously the 23 has a bit of a wider blade. Does this ever pose a problem when fitting through the hub hole?

The 1420 has a narrower blade section, which shouldn't pose a problem. I wonder if they are strong enough for a 215 lb rider.


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## prowheelbuilder (Oct 24, 2009)

*Not sure why you would consider it garbage.*



meltingfeather said:


> Disregard the Prowheelbuilder calc- it is garbage.


I see you have referred to our Spoke Calculator as garbage (here and elsewhere)? So I felt that explaining the product might change yours and others outlook on the calculator.
1. We include the number after the decimal for our internal use. When we build our customers wheels we actually do our best to cut the length supplied on the calc. I never thought that having web users round would pose a problem.
2. We added a .75 addition to the formula. The reason for this is that the formula (found at Spoke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) puts the top of the spoke to the bottom of the slot in a traditional nipple. As the only useful engagement between the nipple and the spoke is in the part of the nipple that is above the interior wall of the rim. We felt that insuring the spoke entered this portion of the nipple would guarantee a more durable build (it is not good enough to simply cover the threads with the nipple).
3. As for the disclaimer, this is simply a matter of COA.

That all being said, we are in the process of putting together an improved version of this calculator and are open to suggestions and critical feedback. Thank you.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

prowheelbuilder said:


> I see you have referred to our Spoke Calculator as garbage (here and elsewhere)? So I felt that explaining the product might change yours and others outlook on the calculator.
> 1. We include the number after the decimal for our internal use. When we build our customers wheels we actually do our best to cut the length supplied on the calc. I never thought that having web users round would pose a problem.
> 2. We added a .75 addition to the formula. The reason for this is that the formula (found at Spoke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) puts the top of the spoke to the bottom of the slot in a traditional nipple. As the only useful engagement between the nipple and the spoke is in the part of the nipple that is above the interior wall of the rim. We felt that insuring the spoke entered this portion of the nipple would guarantee a more durable build (it is not good enough to simply cover the threads with the nipple).
> 3. As for the disclaimer, this is simply a matter of COA.


Great to have the feedback.
Thanks for the information and for taking the time to post it.
It would be useful and informative to users to have this information available on the site rather than "behind the curtain."
I have posted that comment on this forum in response to users' questions about why your calculator generates results different from calculators I know are performing the correct calculation and also different from the math the site claims it used and links to.
I haven't spent much time studying it, since I use my own calculator for my own wheelbuilding purposes.


prowheelbuilder said:


> That all being said, we are in the process of putting together an improved version of this calculator and are open to suggestions and critical feedback. Thank you.


You might reconsider the 0.75mm addition, particularly if your calculator does not account for spoke strain at all (I don't recall that it does). Since spokes are measured and cut in the unstrained state, the effective length of spokes in the built wheel is already longer than what is measured when they are cut.
The total increase varies with spoke type, length, and tension.

You should correct the "nipple seat diameter = ERD" misstatement. You seem to understand the discrepancy, but your site has it wrong.

I would also change your calculator to use the standard offset (center-to-flange) dimensions published by hub manufacturers and actually used in the calculation. Your "locknut-to-flange" dimensions have to be converted before use in the calculation and depend on axle width.

It seems like your calculator is built on the Mavic model, since it has all these things in common ("behind the curtain" adjustments to length, nipple seat diameter, and locknut to flange dimensioning).
The Mavic calculator is garbage.


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## prowheelbuilder (Oct 24, 2009)

I appreciate the suggestions. In the new calc we will be showing both center to flange and flange to locknut as both are used (however I agree more use the center to flange). 
As for spoke strain, the end result of our dimensions consistently puts the head of the spoke either flush to the top of the nipple or .75 over the top while at 120 kgf to 130 kgf (which leaves .25mm of thread to work with in the worst case scenario as the thread on the spoke is 9.5mm long and the thread on the inside of the nipple is 8.5mm long).
The only time we change ERD's is when the manufacturer gets the actual dimension wrong. If we were to add 1mm to all ERD's then we would be getting our fair share of (why are your ERD's this or that). The questions regarding the corrected ERD's still occur but it would happen more often.
As for behind the scenes, One of the reasons for the redesign is real estate. The more space optimized version will allow us to put FYI videos to better explain the feature and benefits to the calc. Some other features will be a dynamic hub and rim image which as different products from the database are selected the image will change. The purpose for this is there will be a visual representation of the spoke and how bracing angles change by flange width, flange diameter, flange offset, rim depth and rim diameter. We will also show a side view so that people can see how lacing pattern angles change by ERD, flange diameter and drilling. This way we can start debunk a lot of the myths out there and make suggestions based on safe parameters. Note these will be suggestions only. If someone wants to build something stupid the calc will still let them.
Any more suggestions?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

prowheelbuilder said:


> I appreciate the suggestions. In the new calc we will be showing both center to flange and flange to locknut as both are used (however I agree more use the center to flange).


Not in the calculation they are not. Look at the formula on the wikipedia page you linked.
Locknut-to-flange dimensions *have to be converted* to center-to-flange for use in the calculation, which requires consideration of axle/dropout width.
If you use center-to-flange there is no purpose for locknut-to-flange at all.


prowheelbuilder said:


> As for spoke strain, the end result of our dimensions consistently puts the head of the spoke either flush to the top of the nipple or .75 over the top while at 120 kgf to 130 kgf (which leaves .25mm of thread to work with in the worst case scenario as the thread on the spoke is 9.5mm long and the thread on the inside of the nipple is 8.5mm long).


Interesting, and about what I would expect.
Since you cut all your own spokes, it probably has less of an effect on you, but with typical precut spoke tolerance, 0.25mm is cutting it WAY too close IMO and any threads in the slot and especially beyond the end of the nipple are useless, as you said.
I can't see a reason why you would aim for having spokes protrude beyond the nipple.
If you remove the 0.75mm addition it sounds like your spoke lengths would be improved.


prowheelbuilder said:


> The only time we change ERD's is when the manufacturer gets the actual dimension wrong. If we were to add 1mm to all ERD's then we would be getting our fair share of (why are your ERD's this or that). The questions regarding the corrected ERD's still occur but it would happen more often.


My point is that ERD is not nipple seat diameter.
Your site says it is.


prowheelbuilder said:


> As for behind the scenes, One of the reasons for the redesign is real estate. The more space optimized version will allow us to put FYI videos to better explain the feature and benefits to the calc. Some other features will be a dynamic hub and rim image which as different products from the database are selected the image will change. The purpose for this is there will be a visual representation of the spoke and how bracing angles change by flange width, flange diameter, flange offset, rim depth and rim diameter. We will also show a side view so that people can see how lacing pattern angles change by ERD, flange diameter and drilling. This way we can start debunk a lot of the myths out there and make suggestions based on safe parameters. Note these will be suggestions only. If someone wants to build something stupid the calc will still let them.


Sounds really cool. Kudos for your efforts on the development of a free tool for users. :thumbsup:


prowheelbuilder said:


> Any more suggestions?


Include instructions for measuring ERD with a diagram illustrating the dimension.


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## prowheelbuilder (Oct 24, 2009)

Regarding center flange comment, center flange still requires dropout width. Example: same the same shell is used and the dropout varies from 135 to 142. The drive side dimension will roughly stay the same however the non drive side offset would change by 7mm. The 135 would need much more dish and the 142 would need virtually none.

As for where ERD is measured too and me referring to it as the nipple seat, I have included a diagram to better depict why I refer to it as the nipple seat https://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/w...79308-light-bicycle-carbon-rims-width-erd.jpg .

Regarding the .75 thought process, If the .75 is not added then the spoke stands a chance of being .75 below the head of the nipple. I would rather the margin of error be on the long side than the short side. The possible negative effects of the short side are as follows:
1. The thread moves closer to the base of the nipple as this happens the bracing angle is more likely to occur at the thread which will cause premature failure of the spoke. This effect will vary based on the actual bracing angle of the spoke and the diameter of the relief of the nipple. 
2. The head of the nipple is typically only 2.5mm. If none of the spoke engaged the head of the nipple the full load of the spoke would be supported by nothing more than the material the nipple was made from and as scoring occurs at the base of the nipple than premature nipple failure is much more likely to occur. The only part of the nipple that is doing any work is the 2.5mm above nipple bed of the rim. So if I had a choice of having 1.75mm of interface at this point versus 2.5, Ill take the 2.5.

As for the spoke protruding above the head of the nipple, there is no down fall as long as you are working with a double wall rim and that you don't run out of thread.

Regarding interface of the nipple at the slotted section being useless. Actually it is not. Yes it does not have the same holding force as the non slotted portion of the nipple however it is only diminished by about 56%. A little of something is allot better than a whole lot of nothing.

The video tutorials will cover the ERD measurements. I already have one but there is no room on the current calc to show it. Here it is 



 .


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

prowheelbuilder said:


> Regarding center flange comment, center flange still requires dropout width.


No it does not.


prowheelbuilder said:


> Example: same the same shell is used and the dropout varies from 135 to 142. The drive side dimension will roughly stay the same however the non drive side offset would change by 7mm. The 135 would need much more dish and the 142 would need virtually none.


I'm not talking about converting dimensions from hubs that happen to have the same shell for two different axles.
Manufacturers publish center-to-flange dimensions and they are plugged directly into the calculator.
Conversion from locknut-to-flange to center-to-flange, which is what the calculation requires, is what needs axle width input.



prowheelbuilder said:


> As for where ERD is measured too and me referring to it as the nipple seat, I have included a diagram to better depict why I refer to it as the nipple seat.


That diagram is dimensionally incorrect.
You said (or I thought you said) ERD is the diameter of the spoke ends in a built wheel. It is. Saying it is nipple seat is wrong and implies that you want your spokes to end at the nipple seat, which you already said you don't. You need to correct your site to say the same thing you are saying. :thumbsup:



prowheelbuilder said:


> As for the spoke protruding above the head of the nipple, there is no down fall as long as you are working with a double wall rim and that *you don't run out of thread*.


Exactly. The longer you "err on the long side," the more likely you are to run out of thread. 0.25mm of clearance may be fine for you if you cut all your own spokes to exact lengths carefully. Typical precut spokes vary (+/-) 0.5mm and you have to assume that people that use your calculator are going to use precut spokes.



prowheelbuilder said:


> Regarding interface of the nipple at the slotted section being useless. Actually it is not. Yes it does not have the same holding force as the non slotted portion of the nipple however it is only diminished by about 56%. A little of something is allot better than a whole lot of nothing.


Citation for the 56%?
I agree that spoke thread in the slot doesn't hurt.


prowheelbuilder said:


> The video tutorials will cover the ERD measurements. I already have one but there is no room on the current calc to show it. Here it is
> 
> 
> 
> .


That is not right.
ERD is the diameter of the *ends of the spokes* in a built wheel. That is the definition from the equation you are using to calculate spoke length (without your arbitrary additions). There is no way around it.
Why measure something unrelated then add another assumption (your 2mm) into the mix, when it is so easy to do the right way? Why not do it correctly? See Roger Musson's instructions here (click the "rims" button).


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

To support the discussion ;-)... ERD is indeed the (desired) diameter of the spoke ends and does not equal the "nipple seat diameter".
I usually take spoke elongation due to spoke tension into account (spoke stiffness EA/L for all in cross section differing parts by 1/k.tot = sum 1/k.i and force in spoke etc) and then aim to have my spokes end somewhere "in the slot". Then decide on which spoke lengths to buy (all after measuring the ERD of the rim). Works out pretty good!


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## prowheelbuilder (Oct 24, 2009)

Regarding the center to flange versus overlock nut. Both require axle width in order to determine proper spoke offset / wheel dish.

Regarding the ERD issue, I have been building wheels for along time (since 1986 and about 3000 a year for the past 6 years) and apparently have been under the wrong impression this whole time (as have some rim manufactures as well). Although I will concede that the proper definition of the ERD is to the top of the effective spoke head. I see an inherent flaw with this practice. The nipple head height is not a standard and can vary as much as 2.5mm (example being DT 12mm = 2.5 and the DT Hex Drive ProLock being 5mm). The other benefit to measuring rims this way (to the interior and then adding the wall thickness and then nipple head) is it is the same way you measure interal nippled rims, which makes the process more uniformed. However, being that this is a publicly supplied tool, the standards should be adhered to in order to prevent confusion.

Thank you for your time as this conversation has been very insightful. I will let you know when the new release of this spoke calc is up and running.


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## caderader (Jun 16, 2011)

Does anybody have any input for me on which rim to get?

I was thinking about going with this one, carbon mountain bike 650b rim mtb 27.5 rim Light-Bicycle, where inner rim width is 23 mm and outer is 30mm but I didn't know if the hookless (Hookless carbon 650B mtb 35mm wide AM 27.5 rims tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle) was a better rim?

A little about me, I ride mostly xc, some roots and rocks, some small jumps (1-2 ft).

Thanks!


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## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

caderader said:


> Does anybody have any input for me on which rim to get?
> 
> I was thinking about going with this one, carbon mountain bike 650b rim mtb 27.5 rim Light-Bicycle, where inner rim width is 23 mm and outer is 30mm but I didn't know if the hookless (Hookless carbon 650B mtb 35mm wide AM 27.5 rims tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle) was a better rim?
> 
> ...


After a lot of reading, I went with the newer hookless wheels.


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## caderader (Jun 16, 2011)

McGG said:


> After a lot of reading, I went with the newer hookless wheels.


Can you elaborate on what things you read helped you make that decision? I've done a fair amount of reading in this thread and elsewhere and I'm not decided. What were the deciding factors for you?


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## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

caderader said:


> Can you elaborate on what things you read helped you make that decision? I've done a fair amount of reading in this thread and elsewhere and I'm not decided. What were the deciding factors for you?


The LB/CC wheels seem to be improving over time. Since this is the newest one, it is reasonable to think that it might be higher quality.

I also wanted a wider rim for performance.

Hookless seems to be the "new" thing, and by all accounts it has a much tougher edge compared to a beaded/rolled over rim.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've got the hookless 35mm wide rims and they setup tubeless better than any other rim I have owned.


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

prowheelbuilder said:


> Regarding the ERD issue, I have been building wheels for along time (since 1986 and about 3000 a year for the past 6 years) and apparently have been under the wrong impression this whole time (as have some rim manufactures as well).


We may mean the same, I always measure the rim's ERD using the nipples that will be used for the build (I agree that it depends on the nipple, although for external nipples it may not differ that much). I then calc spoke lengths using 2 ERD's... to the start of the slot and to the end of the slot in nipple. A bit overkill I agree ;-)


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

prowheelbuilder said:


> Regarding the center to flange versus overlock nut. Both require axle width in order to determine proper spoke offset / wheel dish.


You already said that and I will continue to disagree. The very simple facts are on my side; center-to-flange defines dish directly. locknut-to-flange requires conversion using the drop out width to get the center-to-flange.
Here's a very simple experiment: take a calculator known to work correctly (e.g., DT Swiss) and calculate spoke lengths for the rear Hope Pro 2 in both 135 and 150 for a 3x wheel with a rim ERD of 600mm using just the Hope published numbers for CTF. Easy, right? Did you notice the calc doesn't even have an input for dropout width?
Now do the same for an arbitrary hub using LTF dimensions. Can't do it without knowing dropout width so you can convert the ridiculous and useless LTF to the easy and applicable CTF.
Have you ever calculated spoke length manually?
That means using a calculator such as this:











prowheelbuilder said:


> Regarding the ERD issue, I have been building wheels for along time (since 1986 and about 3000 a year for the past 6 years) and apparently have been under the wrong impression this whole time (as have some rim manufactures as well). Although I will concede that the proper definition of the ERD is to the top of the effective spoke head. I see an inherent flaw with this practice. The nipple head height is not a standard and can vary as much as 2.5mm (example being DT 12mm = 2.5 and the DT Hex Drive ProLock being 5mm). The other benefit to measuring rims this way (to the interior and then adding the wall thickness and then nipple head) is it is the same way you measure interal nippled rims, which makes the process more uniformed. However, being that this is a publicly supplied tool, the standards should be adhered to in order to prevent confusion.


It's great that you've built a lot of wheels; I'd bet you're pretty fast. You aren't the only person who has built a lot of wheels... or the first person who has built a lot of wheels and doesn't understand the spoke length calculation (but still has a method that works fine).
Citing manufacturer data for ERD does not help your case because there's a demonstrated lack of accuracy there almost across the board. What wheelbuilder do you know (including yourself) who would recommend blindly plugging mfr ERD numbers in and ordering spokes? Is that what you do? Didn't think so.
It is hard to call the methodology flawed when it is mathematically built in to the formula you are using to calculate length.
The assumptions you make and the arbitrary additions you throw in that "work" (spokes protruding from nipples is not "working") for your own personal method are part of what have clouded what exactly the spoke length calculation is.
If you insist on doing it that way, at the very least tell people what you are doing and don't link to an explanation and equation you are not using.
I see more of a flaw in assuming rim wall thickness and nipple head thickness. Where does your calculator account for the thickness of ProLock vs. regular nipples?
Hint: Pro Loc nipples don't change spoke length. I thought you've built 6,000 wheels? :skep:
It's not really surprising that there is a lack of understanding of how the spoke calculation translates into the real world, but once that understanding is in place the definition of ERD as the diameter of the ends of the spokes is not debatable.
I agree that there is some difficulty in translating, but synonymizing ERD with nipple seat diameter is the wrong way to go in terms of helping people build wheels with the correct length spokes.
It is wrong in *every case* and if you wish to use nipple seat diameter you should label it as such (not ERD) and make it clear that you're adding estimated additional dimensions... maybe have nipple type as a selection parameter in your calculator (but only for nipples that actually affect spoke length, like DT Swiss 16mm).


prowheelbuilder said:


> Thank you for your time as this conversation has been very insightful. I will let you know when the new release of this spoke calc is up and running.


Thank you for your willingness to engage in the discussion. I think it will help you build a better calculator and help serve the users of your website. :thumbsup:


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## caderader (Jun 16, 2011)

Next question what is everyones opinion on the Novatec 711/712 and 811/812 hubs? Is there a significant difference between the two hubs? Are they a decent choice for a value hub? I could maybe afford hopes but college students are broke and ****!


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## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

caderader said:


> Next question what is everyones opinion on the Novatec 711/712 and 811/812 hubs? Is there a significant difference between the two hubs? Are they a decent choice for a value hub? I could maybe afford hopes but college students are broke and ****!


budget isn't a huge concern for me, and I still went with the Novatecs.


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## caderader (Jun 16, 2011)

did you get the 711/712 or 811/812, got any miles on them? comments?


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

caderader said:


> did you get the 711/712 or 811/812, got any miles on them? comments?


What configuration do you need? if 15mm/142x12 I'd go 771/772 because they are lighter than 811/2. Even you need qr hubs I'd still go 771/2 for future upgradebility


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## caderader (Jun 16, 2011)

Ratt said:


> What configuration do you need? if 15mm/142x12 I'd go 771/772 because they are lighter than 811/2. Even you need qr hubs I'd still go 771/2 for future upgradebility


Cool thanks, I'm going with 15mm/142X12 so I guess the 771/772 should be good. That's something I'm a little confused about though? I see a 771/772 being referenced as well as a 711/712. Are these two different models or just a misnomer?


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

caderader said:


> Cool thanks, I'm going with 15mm/142X12 so I guess the 771/772 should be good. That's something I'm a little confused about though? I see a 771/772 being referenced as well as a 711/712. Are these two different models or just a misnomer?


I think 712 are quick release only


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

variables use to coincide with wikipedia spoke length calculation formula:
(I drew the attached and once I have enough wikipedia cred to post an image, I will replace the incorrect image on that page that has the ends of the spokes labeled "nipple seat circle"


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## dirkdaddy (Sep 4, 2007)

Anyone seen rims by Speedcarbon11 on ebay? Even less $ than LB.

29er MTB Carbon Mountain Bike Wheel Axle 15mm Front x12 142mm Through Axle Wheel | eBay

Rim / Spoke calc guys - interesting discussion but OT, wanna take it to PM? Just suggestion. :thumbsup:


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## caderader (Jun 16, 2011)

http://www.diy-carbonbike.com/carbon-wheel-sets/m23c-detail.html

even cheaper...


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## dirkdaddy (Sep 4, 2007)

caderader said:


> http://www.diy-carbonbike.com/carbon-wheel-sets/m23c-detail.html
> 
> even cheaper...


I think the DIY means you build the wheel. But they offer free warranty replacement including shipping! Interesting.


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## caderader (Jun 16, 2011)

Yeh I didn't realize that, I was pretty sure it was just a name and the wheel set was built all the way. Anyway the've got a coupon for 8% off to make it an even sweeter deal! 

Coupon Code: VK2014165


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## dirkdaddy (Sep 4, 2007)

What was shipping BTW, I tried to do a quick check but was in middle of applying for jobs and couldn't spend 10 min creating a profile and all just for shipping.


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## caderader (Jun 16, 2011)

$76.17


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

dirkdaddy said:


> Rim / Spoke calc guys - interesting discussion but OT, wanna take it to PM? Just suggestion. :thumbsup:


I totally want to see more of this in a dedicated thread. It would be great to see more clarification of wheel physics and measurements in general, but in a new thread. I would subscribe to that. Thanks for contributing.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

So how are those 30mm ID wheels treating you guys who have them already? We want more ride/tire fitting/square edge rock smashing reports!

Also, I saw on the LB 29er thread that they are doing a 24mm ID hookless now, and someone posted cross-sectional drawings of all 3 29er hookless models. Interestingly, if you do the math (OD minus ID) you find that those new 24mm models have a 3mm sidewall thickness, vs. the 2.5mm thickness of the 22mm ID and 30mm ID models. I am curious if this is going to be their new spec going forward. It seems like it would be good for rock strikes, and is closer to the dimensions Derby is using on his sidewalls. Anyone here got a set of the 24mm ID hookless yet?


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## mudpuppy (Feb 7, 2004)

So far mine are still running true and strong. I have punished them fairly hard too...one ride where I thought my grip was crazy good...turns out I was running 17psi in the front and 19 in the rear, for a 270lb dude...that's insane. No burps running ghetto tubeless either...loving them!


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## brimorga (Jul 23, 2013)

mudpuppy said:


> So far mine are still running true and strong. I have punished them fairly hard too...one ride where I thought my grip was crazy good...turns out I was running 17psi in the front and 19 in the rear, for a 270lb dude...that's insane. No burps running ghetto tubeless either...loving them!


Had a similar experience. Got home to see I was running 15-16 psi, but I'm only 175. Tempted to run like that again cause the grip was so good.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mudpuppy (Feb 7, 2004)

brimorga said:


> Had a similar experience. Got home to see I was running 15-16 psi, but I'm only 175. Tempted to run like that again cause the grip was so good.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, like amazingly good, and the amazing thing is I didn't feel any tire roll in the corners...man I love wide rims!


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

mudpuppy said:


> So far mine are still running true and strong. I have punished them fairly hard too...one ride where I thought my grip was crazy good...turns out I was running 17psi in the front and 19 in the rear, for a 270lb dude...that's insane. No burps running ghetto tubeless either...loving them!


WOW, 17-19psi at 270lbs riding hard! That is quite a testament! When you say that you are running ghetto tubeless, do you mean with a split innertube or just a gorilla tape type setup? Tubeless ready tires?

Thanks!


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## mudpuppy (Feb 7, 2004)

TheKaiser said:


> WOW, 17-19psi at 270lbs riding hard! That is quite a testament! When you say that you are running ghetto tubeless, do you mean with a split innertube or just a gorilla tape type setup? Tubeless ready tires?
> 
> Thanks!


Ghetto with the split tube. My last go at tubeless I used the gorilla tape on some 21mm ID rims and I burped every damn ride....I hated it and went back to tubes pdq.

As for the tires they are 2bliss Specialized Ground control rear and Butcher front...with the grid casing. So far the grid casing is way better than the control casing I was using in the past.


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## geeride7 (Jul 9, 2006)

*Which rims?*

I'm about to order a lightbicycles 29er wheelset for a Tallboy 2. I ride mostly X/C & trail and some AM too (e.g., whole enchilada). It's rocky out here & impact resistance matters to me. Bike come stock with 2.2 tires, and I plan to stick to tubeless ready tires in the 2.2 to 2.35 range and use Stans.

Considering these rim choices. 




















Can I trust hookless? Any advice on which one to choose would be much appreciated. The 35x25 rims weigh about 30g more each, which is probably a good thing!


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

geeride7 said:


> I'm about to order a lightbicycles 29er wheelset for a Tallboy 2. I ride mostly X/C & trail and some AM too (e.g., whole enchilada). It's rocky out here & impact resistance matters to me. Bike come stock with 2.2 tires, and I plan to stick to tubeless ready tires in the 2.2 to 2.35 range and use Stans.
> 
> Considering these rim choices.
> View attachment 892184
> ...


Read the review of the Wide Lighting wheels at twentynineinhes.com. I strongly recommend 29mm - 30mm inside width hookless rims. Buy from whatever source you trust. I'm on Derby rims and they are just phenomenal - to your question, I've whacked them a few times in rock gardens and no problems. I'm running 20psi with 2.35 Nics.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

My 29er 30mm hookless rims from LB will be at my door in about 6 days. I agree 30mm is the sweet spot for light 29er rims. Mine weigh 400 and 406 grams as per Nancy. I'll post some picts soon. My wheel builder now only uses Sapim spokes, he really likes the CX Rays but I think I will go with Laser spokes 2x lacing front and rear.


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## geeride7 (Jul 9, 2006)

Motivated said:


> Read the review of the Wide Lighting wheels at twentynineinhes.com. I strongly recommend 29mm - 30mm inside width hookless rims. Buy from whatever source you trust. I'm on Derby rims and they are just phenomenal - to your question, I've whacked them a few times in rock gardens and no problems. I'm running 20psi with 2.35 Nics.


Thanks Motivated for the info, the explanation is the review was great. Those Derby rims look real nice with the 3.0 mm sidewall width and the beadlock bump! I think I'll get the 30mm internal LBs, though, cuz I can get a complete wheelset built for the price of 2 derby rims.


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## Jack0207 (Jan 29, 2012)

Before I place an order, I have a simple question for the masses. What rim width would you run if you have 2.35 HD on the front and 2.25RR on the rear? Internal 30mm or internal 24mm.......


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

30 with the HD for sure.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Jack0207 said:


> Before I place an order, I have a simple question for the masses. What rim width would you run if you have 2.35 HD on the front and 2.25RR on the rear? Internal 30mm or internal 24mm.......


I run Nextie 35 outer, 29 inner rims with 2.35 on front and a 2.2 on the back. Working great so far but I would think anything smaller than a 2.125 would be a little too small for a 30mm inner. With the 2.2, there isn't much "bulge" past the rim width. But there really isn't anything scientific to my theory.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Jack0207 said:


> Before I place an order, I have a simple question for the masses. What rim width would you run if you have 2.35 HD on the front and 2.25RR on the rear? Internal 30mm or internal 24mm.......


If you are dedicated to that tire setup you can always run 30mm up front and 24mm in the rear.

I've enjoyed 2.35 HDs on 30mm internal width rims.

I didn't like narrower tires on that same rim, but I didn't try enough pairs to conclude anything. Although I sold those 2.2" tires to a friend with narrower rims and she liked them.


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## rukomasa (Feb 6, 2008)

A question to experts. I got 30mm width rim and placed 2.25 RaRa to the rim with stans yellow tape tubeless setup with coke bottle compressor. Bead is up, but no sound. I always heard bead pop up sounds when i mounted tyres on stans flow or UST rims but not this time. Is it usual for carbon rims? 

Sent from my SO-02E using Tapatalk 2


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Wider the better.


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## geeride7 (Jul 9, 2006)

Wide is the new medium, get the 30 mm internal.


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## GS Spirit (May 4, 2008)

I ordered some of those 35mm 29ers about a month ago they should be coming soon. Probably more HD than I needed but better too strong than too weak.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Rims came in today, ordered them on April 25th. Really fast !! They look really nice, 401 grams and 407g weight.


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## Jack0207 (Jan 29, 2012)

Thanks for the replies - I was pretty keen on getting the 30's but just wanted to check the RR would be okay. Guessing I will be placing an order today


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## Chowder Head (Sep 26, 2010)

I just ordered a set of the LB 35mm hookless, does anyone know if Bontrager makes a tubeless rim strip large enough to fit these wheels? (edit) they are 29"

Thanks,

Matt


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*Nextie-Bike carbon hoops*

Hey, anybody bought from Nextie-Bike.com? I was told they source their rims from the same factory as LB. Looking for some feedback on build quality and feel. Any weirdness in transaction? I'm about to pull the trigger on a set of their 35mm 27.5 hoops. Thanks in advance.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Matt in Temecula said:


> I just ordered a set of the LB 35mm hookless, does anyone know if Bontrager makes a tubeless rim strip large enough to fit these wheels? (edit) they are 29"
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Matt


Why wouldn't you just use Stan's or gorilla 
tape and a valve stem to go tubeless?


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> Hey, anybody bought from Nextie-Bike.com? I was told they source their rims from the same factory as LB. Looking for some feedback on build quality and feel. Any weirdness in transaction? I'm about to pull the trigger on a set of their 35mm 27.5 hoops. Thanks in advance.


I bought a pair of Nextie 35mm 27.5 rims with the Ti wire in the bead from them last August I think. Took about 3 weeks to get them. Holding up great and weights were 385 and 389gms.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

You probably could, but there's lots of reports of the bontrager strips being better


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Matt in Temecula said:


> I just ordered a set of the LB 35mm hookless, does anyone know if Bontrager makes a tubeless rim strip large enough to fit these wheels? (edit) they are 29"
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Matt


No they dont


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## cacka_lacka (Oct 1, 2013)

*Tough Luck*

First off: *This was an unfortunate event and I do not think LB is at fault*

Tonight I took my Mach 429 Carbon on it's fourth ride with the the LB 27mm hookless 29er rims. These are laced to I9 hubs with DT Comps and tubeless with Stans tape at 24psi front and 27psi rear (pro built and 1558g if you're wondering). On this particular trail, there's a g-out section filled with square-edged slate. Well, I hit this section harder than normal (~20 mph according to the GPS) tonight and heard a loud *whack*. It sounded like maybe a small rock had been kicked up into the downtube so I just kept on riding... but about a mile later I noticed the rear end was getting a bit squirrely. Checked the rear tire and it was definitely low and figured it had burped a little on the g-out. So I busted out the pump and started at it when I noticed a nice little crack in the rim bead. Awesome.

I'm guessing I had some serious contact between the rim and a rock in that g-out section that lead to crack and a loss of pressure. However, it is possible that the tire had burped air earlier in the ride and blasting through that g-out section with low pressure contributed to the rock impact. I'm fairly confident that this was just a freak deal and had it been an alu rim, it would have been badly dinged up. Even though the Mach 429c only has 4" of travel, I ride it just as hard as my 6" bike. I'm to blame because tonight I over rode the bike, the rims, and the small-volume tires. A cracked rim was the result.

I shot off an email to LB to see if they do a discounted "crash replacement", but I'm not holding my breath. If not, I'll lace up a Stan's Arch and call it good. The front LB rim will continue to be ridden, and ridden hard.

Again, no blame or ill will is aimed towards LB. This was just a casualty of mountain biking.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

What tire and size you are using? That sucks!!


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## Chowder Head (Sep 26, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> No they dont


Thank you, tape it is then. Hopefully they will in the future, I've owned two set of wheels with the Bonty strips, and they work great.


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## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

carboncycle.cc finished my wheels, and sent me some pics. They look great, except they used SRAM XX1 freehubs on the Novatecs! Grrr!

How hard is it to swap a free-hub out? They are going to do it for me, but say the delay will be two weeks.

I could just buy a freehub body for Shimano from bdop and do the swap, but I've never done it. Is it hard?


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Matt in Temecula said:


> Thank you, tape it is then. Hopefully they will in the future, I've owned two set of wheels with the Bonty strips, and they work great.


Agree with this. I would use Bonty style rim strips in every wheelset I had if they were available.


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## cacka_lacka (Oct 1, 2013)

> What tire and size you are using? That sucks!!


Rocket Rons at 2.25". I should also say that I'm about 190lbs geared up... so not the lightest rider out there.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

cacka_lacka said:


> Rocket Rons at 2.25". I should also say that I'm about 190lbs geared up... so not the lightest rider out there.


Hate to say it, but that's your problem (the Rocket Rons). If you are riding an XC bike like a 6" travel bike, you probably should be using different tires.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I agree! Wrong tire for how your riding and bike. Try the Mich. Wild GripR 2.25 is huge so you will great air volume and girth with your rim. Even the 2.1 is big. and weighs 705 grams.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

blcman said:


> I bought a pair of Nextie 35mm 27.5 rims with the Ti wire in the bead from them last August I think. Took about 3 weeks to get them. Holding up great and weights were 385 and 389gms.


Great! Thanks for the feedback!


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## cacka_lacka (Oct 1, 2013)

hillharman said:


> Hate to say it, but that's your problem (the Rocket Rons). If you are riding an XC bike like a 6" travel bike, you probably should be using different tires.


Yeah, I agree. The RRs were an experiment. In the past few years I've been exclusively riding long travel (6"+) bikes with primarily Conti 2.4" TKs (which are huge!). This year I decided to build up an XC bike and thought RRs would be a fast and light tire that matched the overall bike build well. I will be doing a handful of 50-100mi races this season on the 429c and thought I needed a true XC tire. Looks like I need to dial back the aggressive riding on the 429c or run slower and heavier tires. Maybe even need to consider an everyday wheelset and a race wheelset... but that would make me a serious racer, which I am not.

Still pretty bummed about the rim. The wheelset and tires rolled so fast that it was damn scary at times... I was very impressed with the RR's grip for an XC tire.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

hillharman said:


> Hate to say it, but that's your problem (the Rocket Rons). If you are riding an XC bike like a 6" travel bike, you probably should be using different tires.


I'm a moron


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## dirkdaddy (Sep 4, 2007)

Uh, re-read the post.

And I have a 07 bike with 6" front and 5" rear that is XC oriented but AM able, so yea, things have changed since 89.



meltingfeather said:


> lol
> now XC is 6" of travel?!?
> What's "trail"... 8"? And downhill?
> 
> My primary XC bike has one gear and all the travel I can get out of the tires.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dirkdaddy said:


> Uh, re-read the post.
> 
> And I have a 07 bike with 6" front and 5" rear that is XC oriented but AM able, so yea, things have changed since 89.


I read it... I was just as dumb the second time and missed the point (again). third time's a charm. :thumbsup:


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> lol
> now XC is 6" of travel?!?
> What's "trail"... 8"? And downhill?
> 
> My primary XC bike has one gear and all the travel I can get out of the tires.


The poster (#5891) said he rides his 4" bike (a Mach 429, widely considered to be a full suspension XC bike) like a 6" bike, which I took to mean "aggressively." Rocket Rons have probably the flimsiest casings of any knobby tire I've seen in person (they weigh 600g). So my point is that if he's riding his XC bike aggressively (or any bike aggressively) Rocket Rons are not the right tire, consistent with his rim destruction. So yeah, read it again.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> lol
> now XC is 6" of travel?!?
> What's "trail"... 8"? And downhill?
> 
> My primary XC bike has one gear and all the travel I can get out of the tires.


Basically, there are multiple senses of the word "like" and you inferred the wrong one. My meaning was "as though it were" and not "such as." In the context of the original post, mine usage makes perfect sense.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

hillharman said:


> Basically, there are multiple senses of the word "like" and you inferred the wrong one. My meaning was "as though it were" and not "such as." In the context of the original post, mine usage makes perfect sense.


got it now! makes perfect sense.
i get things... my apologies for the deraillment. :blush:


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> got it now! makes perfect sense.
> i get things... my apologies for the deraillment. :blush:


No worries. I was using bad forum etiquette by not quoting adequately.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Pau11y said:


> Hey, anybody bought from Nextie-Bike.com? I was told they source their rims from the same factory as LB. Looking for some feedback on build quality and feel. Any weirdness in transaction? I'm about to pull the trigger on a set of their 35mm 27.5 hoops. Thanks in advance.


I'm running those rims. The transaction went without issues and their communication was better than I expected. Mine came in at 421 and 422 grams. Their site now has a weight of 410+/- grams. They also have a two year warranty versus one with most Chinese rims


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

BXCc said:


> I'm running those rims. The transaction went without issues and their communication was better than I expected. Mine came in at 421 and 422 grams. Their site now has a weight of 410+/- grams. They also have a two year warranty versus one with most Chinese rims


Right on man, thanks!


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Where is everyone getting there 35mm wide hook-less bead rims. Does anyone sell a wheel-set for a reasonable price. That doesn't take to long for shipping. I seen someone on pinkbike selling 35mm rims for $260. Seems a little expensive.


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## dirkdaddy (Sep 4, 2007)

Have you read any of the 200+ posts? one place is light bicycle.com.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The best 35mm rims would be Derby rims at 299.00 each.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

dirkdaddy said:


> Have you read any of the 200+ posts? one place is light bicycle.com.


Do you have a link? I don't see it announced on the LB website..?


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

langen said:


> Do you have a link? I don't see it announced on the LB website..?


You need to contact directly by email


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

caRpetbomBer said:


> $260. Seems a little expensive.


FAIL. No but seriously... You can't be serious.

I've seen them available on ebay though and they have directed people to purchase them via ebay.


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## Jack0207 (Jan 29, 2012)

Well, LB 30mm ID hookless wheel set with Hope pro 2 evo hubs and aero spokes ordered. Approx 20 days till they are in my hand and will report back once they turn up and fitted to my Anthem x29er.


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

GTR-33 said:


> FAIL. No but seriously... You can't be serious.
> 
> I've seen them available on ebay though and they have directed people to purchase them via ebay.


I hope you know you could get that same rim from light-bicycle for $180 each and would cost you $50 shipped for booth.


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## manmythlegend (May 21, 2012)

So I got my Wheelset today , unfortunately the front axle adaptor fell out into the box. 
Its a novatec 771sb hub.
I have no idea how to install this properly as the only way the outer ring gets pressure to stay on place the wheels wont fit. When I install in what "feels" right the outer ring ((yellow highlight)) has no reason to stay in place and seems like even a slight bump would knock that ring loose.

Ive installed it with A facing out. Then ring over it with 1 facing out.

Ive enclosed pictures.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Without one of these hubs in my hands, or more photos, its difficult to be confident in an answer. But I would suggest putting the 1/2 ring over the A/B adapter such that A side and 2 side are both facing out away from the hub.

Can you look at the rotor side of the hub and compare?

Might there be an O ring missing from the outer ring portion of the adapter, or the hub? Often these axle adapters have little more than an O-ring to keep them in place when off the frame. When they are on the frame, the axle keeps them properly positioned and supported.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

manmythlegend said:


> So I got my Wheelset today , unfortunately the front axle adaptor fell out into the box.
> Its a novatec 771sb hub.
> I have no idea how to install this properly as the only way the outer ring gets pressure to stay on place the wheels wont fit. When I install in what "feels" right the outer ring ((yellow highlight)) has no reason to stay in place and seems like even a slight bump would knock that ring loose.
> 
> ...


have you tried contacting Novatec?


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## manmythlegend (May 21, 2012)

InertiaMan said:


> Without one of these hubs in my hands, or more photos, its difficult to be confident in an answer. But I would suggest putting the 1/2 ring over the A/B adapter such that A side and 2 side are both facing out away from the hub.
> 
> Can you look at the rotor side of the hub and compare?
> 
> Might there be an O ring missing from the outer ring portion of the adapter, or the hub? Often these axle adapters have little more than an O-ring to keep them in place when off the frame. When they are on the frame, the axle keeps them properly positioned and supported.





spunkmtb said:


> have you tried contacting Novatec?


The 1/2 is what I assumed was the washer. My first thought was the same that the axle would keep everything in place. It just seems bizarre that it really has nothing holding it in. Ive attached pics Peter sent me of an assembled hub.

And yes I emailed Novatec. Id rather be certain than going for a spin and ruining a piece.


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## cycljunkie (Feb 6, 2004)

manmythlegend said:


> The 1/2 is what I assumed was the washer. My first thought was the same that the axle would keep everything in place. It just seems bizarre that it really has nothing holding it in. Ive attached pics Peter sent me of an assembled hub.
> 
> And yes I emailed Novatec. Id rather be certain than going for a spin and ruining a piece.


Not sure if this is the same scenario but when I ran the 20mm end-caps for my Stan's front hub, they would simply fall out when the wheel was removed from the fork. Once attached to the fork, everything was solid. When I switched my fork out for a new one with a QR15, I bought the 15mm end-caps from Stan's and they fit snug as ever. No issues with them falling out.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

*Possible crack*

I was getting ready to take my rims to wheel builder and I found this, may be crack in one of rims. I guess I will let the wheel builder take a look, I sent some picts to Nancy see what she has to say.

Really hard to tell, I can put my fingernail in the crack/scrach or what ever it is. I'm worried now!!


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Looks like a mark in the resin from the layup materials. It's probably nothing to worry about, but having your wheel builder look at it in the flesh is a good move.


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## GS Spirit (May 4, 2008)

As long as you are not in a hurry I have been waiting for 5 weeks for mine. They say they shipped but the tracking number is not working so not sure just yet if they really are in transit or not.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Yea I was looking at the spoke hole and it does not appear to go through.

Shipping info on my set of rims just showed they were shipped, and in 4 days I had them. Really fast shipping !! It took 8 days to get my Troy Lee A1 helmet all with in the US.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dgw7000 said:


> I was getting ready to take my rims to wheel builder and I found this, may be crack in one of rims. I guess I will let the wheel builder take a look, I sent some picts to Nancy see what she has to say.
> 
> Really hard to tell, I can put my fingernail in the crack/scrach or what ever it is. I'm worried now!!


Interesting (though not surprising I guess) that they drilled a hole through and then sanded to illegibility the serial number.


----------



## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I know that area just looks a little strange, I wounder what Nancy will have to say.


----------



## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Finally got the wheel set done picked up today.
I had Eddie F. @ Roseville Cyclery in Roseville Ca. build them up for me he did a very nice job.
Chris King ISO 28 hole front and rear Red.
Light Bicycles Hookless.
593.22 ERD Rear.
593.58 ERD Front.
Spokes DT SWISS Comp White 2.0/1.8 292 mm.
DT Red alloy Nipples.
3 x Laced.
125 kfg Rear drive side.
115 kfg Front disc side.
Rear 920 grams.
Front 730 grams.
1650 grams total.








Now time to go test ride. :band:


----------



## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

so, you have the ability to measure ERD to an accuracy of +-10 micrometres? how do you do this?


----------



## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

sclyde2 said:


> so, you have the ability to measure ERD to an accuracy of +-10 micrometres? how do you do this?


I will have to ask the builder it's on his notes.
As stated above I didn't build them myself.

Added 5/22/2014 @ 12:31 PST:
Talked to builder forgive me if I don't pass on the info perfect it was mostly Greek to me.
He said he uses a Wheel Smiths ERD rod then deducts the over lap using a calculator.
So we can just say the ERD is 593 for both front and rear.
Sorry for the confusion I didn't even think about it when I posted it.


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

sclyde2 said:


> so, you have the ability to measure ERD to an accuracy of +-10 micrometres? how do you do this?


No way... maybe the artifact of an average calculation.
Pretty typical overstatement of precision.
Neither is tension to the +/- 1 kgf possible.


----------



## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

looks like 2x laced

no, it is 3, yes.

haven´t thougt 28h for 3x, bit limits


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

manninen said:


> looks like 2x laced


No it doesn't.


----------



## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

white spokes just burned my cortex. now i see only those spokes


----------



## manninen (Mar 17, 2014)

could even be as limits as my 20h front wheel im building right now, waiting for spokes.
20h 2x and quite high flange


----------



## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

*Possible crack*

I took some very light steal wool to that area, I don't think it's a crack. Looks like it in the resin. Don't want to remove the serial number. Waiting for Nancy to reply.


----------



## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

Ordered some rims from carboncycle.cc.

Same company/manufacturer as LB, different front end. (Maybe?)

Anyway, they arrived with a defect. I'm thinking about returning the one wheel. I can't really tell if the "lesion" reaches past the clear coat or not. Any layup experts out there care to comment?

I'll let let you know what the CC.cc guys have to say.

Bigger pics:

imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

McGG said:


> Anyway, they arrived with a defect. I'm thinking about returning the one


That's an understatement. No way I'd ride the "good" one or the replacement rim. I'd never get the image of that crack out of my head.


----------



## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

I think it was damaged after manufacturing. The carbonbicycle.cc guys seem to be responsive about replacing it so far. If everything isn't to my satisfaction, then I will certainly report back here.


----------



## WoodstockMTB (Oct 5, 2010)

PauLCa916 said:


> Finally got the wheel set done picked up today.
> I had Eddie F. @ Roseville Cyclery in Roseville Ca. build them up for me he did a very nice job.
> Chris King ISO 28 hole front and rear Red.
> Light Bicycles Hookless.
> ...


Pretty much the build I am looking for.

Did you go with the 35M rims or the 27mm rims?

I'd prefer a lighter wheel as I mainly ride XC here in VT, but wondering if its worth the extra width seeing as I ride our West a few times a year and do like more control on the down.


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

PauLCa916 said:


> Finally got the wheel set done picked up today.
> I had Eddie F. @ Roseville Cyclery in Roseville Ca. build them up for me he did a very nice job.
> Chris King ISO 28 hole front and rear Red.
> Light Bicycles Hookless.
> ...


Assuming that weight is with skewers? Tape? Valves?

I feel like those wheels should've built up lighter. Using info available online, you should've been in the 1555g range.

Skewers would put you up another 100g. Tape and valves I think is another 25-40 g.


----------



## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

WoodstockMTB said:


> Pretty much the build I am looking for.
> 
> Did you go with the 35M rims or the 27mm rims?
> 
> I'd prefer a lighter wheel as I mainly ride XC here in VT, but wondering if its worth the extra width seeing as I ride our West a few times a year and do like more control on the down.


27 mm.



hokiebrett said:


> Assuming that weight is with skewers? Tape? Valves?
> 
> I feel like those wheels should've built up lighter. Using info available online, you should've been in the 1555g range.
> 
> Skewers would put you up another 100g. Tape and valves I think is another 25-40 g.


That's what they weighed at the shop with out axles tape and valves.
I made the comment that I thought they would be in the mid 1500's and the builder said that the Chris King hubs are a bit on the heavy side.

Wen't for a ride Saturday and Sunday I'm really happy with the way this wheel set handle's.
Felt like I was learning to ride a new bike.
Climbing and cornering felt a lot better.


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

PauLCa916 said:


> 27 mm.
> 
> That's what they weighed at the shop with out axles tape and valves.
> I made the comment that I thought they would be in the mid 1500's and the builder said that the Chris King hubs are a bit on the heavy side.


Were the skewers in the hubs while they were being weighed? If yes, then the weight makes perfect sense and is spot on to my excel sheet model.


----------



## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

WoodstockMTB said:


> Pretty much the build I am looking for.
> 
> Did you go with the 35M rims or the 27mm rims?
> 
> I'd prefer a lighter wheel as I mainly ride XC here in VT, but wondering if its worth the extra width seeing as I ride our West a few times a year and do like more control on the down.





hokiebrett said:


> Were the skewers in the hubs while they were being weighed? If yes, then the weight makes perfect sense and is spot on to my excel sheet model.


No skewers.
After posting I checked on a web site and the difference is 172 grams from front to rear hub the difference in the front and rear wheel is 190 grams.
So the 18 gram difference may be in the rims ?


----------



## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Built up my front wheel:
LB 27 mm hookless 29", AM weight - 399 g
Hope Pro 2 Evo
Sapim Laser & Brass Nips
Total weight: 780 g (no valve, tape or skewer)










Tubeless setup with Stan's tape was straightforward. Running at 20 - 25 psi with a Maxxis Ikon 29 x 2.35.

Have a few rides on it, and have noticed the front end feels lighter, quicker, and more direct when steering. So far so good. Next I need to do the rear...

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Just built up a set of 27 hookless. White industries 15mm front 28 spoke, rear Eno 32 spoke. revolution spokes, Sapim aluminum nips and velofuze nipple washers. 1654 grams total. No QR or bolts. Very nice wheels.


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## WoodstockMTB (Oct 5, 2010)

Kings are on the heavy side and I bet the rims vary by as much as 15-20g each. So, add the extra hub weight and variance in the rims and there you go.

Still, shows how heavy the kings are compared to something like I9 or DTSwiss. At least 200g or 1/2 lb difference. Sweet hubs though. Last you foreva.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

WoodstockMTB said:


> Still, shows how heavy the kings are compared to something like I9 or DTSwiss. At least 200g or 1/2 lb difference.


When in doubt... make s**t up.

I knew you were full of it when I read your post... and only took me 30 seconds to confirm how far off you are.

Kings are relatively heavy, true, but only 50g heavier than Torch (old I9 classics were heavier than Kings) and 100g heavier than the 240.

WTF? "At least a 1/2 lb heavier?"
Oh, and btw, 200g is not a 1/2 lb.
:nonod:


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## WoodstockMTB (Oct 5, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> When in doubt... make s**t up.
> 
> I knew you were full of it when I read your post... and only took me 30 seconds to confirm how far off you are.
> 
> ...


1/2 lb = 226.whateva grams. You caught me red handed. I actually replaced my steel skewers with Ti skewers once and saved like 26g and let tell you what a difference it made. Set a personal best on my local climb that day.

As for my 200g ......I was using the wheel owner's numbers incorrectly. So, I admit total and utter failure there. (You caught me again, dammit) What I should have written was 100g extra for the Kings over other high end hubs (not the 172g I incorrectly used from above) plus the potential increase in rim weight (+/- 15g per rim LB's website). 172 + 30 = 202. In reality more like 130g.

And again, you're right, this s**t matters a lot. I once replaced my aluminum post & stem with a carbon post and stem saving 127g and another 3g replacing my aluminum spacers with carbon spaces. Guess what my total weight savings was?

You got it: 130g!!!!.....and AGAIN I hit another personal best.

It's a bike wheel, D-Bag.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

WoodstockMTB said:


> 1/2 lb = 226.whateva grams. You caught me red handed. I actually replaced my steel skewers with Ti skewers once and saved like 26g and let tell you what a difference it made. Set a personal best on my local climb that day.
> 
> As for my 200g ......I was using the wheel owner's numbers incorrectly. So, I admit total and utter failure there. (You caught me again, dammit) What I should have written was 100g extra for the Kings over other high end hubs (not the 172g I incorrectly used from above) plus the potential increase in rim weight (+/- 15g per rim LB's website). 172 + 30 = 202. In reality more like 130g.
> 
> ...


wow
butthurt much?
50g isn't "at least 200g," no matter how much personal best and spacer BS you drag into it.
If it bothers you that bad take the 30 seconds to check your facts first.
If it doesn't matter, why throw numbers around?


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> wow
> butthurt much?
> 50g isn't "at least 200g," no matter how much personal best and spacer BS you drag into it.
> If it bothers you that bad take the 30 seconds to check your facts first.
> If it doesn't matter, why throw numbers around?


I, for one, am glad that you post here often as you're an incredibly knowledgeable person - esp in regard to wheelbuilding. But sometimes you come across as a HUGE douchenozzle.

Hopefully, for your own sake, you're a little more chill in real life.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Walt Disney's Frozen Head said:


> I, for one, am glad that you post here often as you're an incredibly knowledgeable person - esp in regard to wheelbuilding.


Thanks


Walt Disney's Frozen Head said:


> But sometimes you come across as a HUGE douchenozzle.


I get that... and try to stay conscious of it... I'm also a smart ass though, which complicates things. :arf:
I do have a bit of an issue with people making stuff up and slinging it out like fact, which plenty of people here do... it defeats the information sharing purpose of a forum like this.
Some of it is my writing style, maybe because I was raised by two attorneys.


Walt Disney's Frozen Head said:


> Hopefully, for your own sake, you're a little more chill in real life.


lol
I am. :thumbsup:


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

WoodstockMTB said:


> I actually replaced my steel skewers with Ti skewers once and saved like 26g and let tell you what a difference it made. Set a personal best on my local climb that day.


I cant tell if this statement was made in jest or if youre actually serious..


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## WoodstockMTB (Oct 5, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> wow
> butthurt much?
> 50g isn't "at least 200g," no matter how much personal best and spacer BS you drag into it.
> If it bothers you that bad take the 30 seconds to check your facts first.
> If it doesn't matter, why throw numbers around?


Hey man...I'm the one having fun here. No worries on my end. Just having a good time with how wound up and mean you got over the weight of bike hubs in an internet forum.

DTs are easily over 100G lighter. I9s? I stand corrected...the newer torch hubs they use in the wheels they build are in fact lighter, but the Classics are not. So, I'll concede defeat to your clear superior bicycle hub weight knowledge.

Good rule to live by: Give people the benefit of the doubt. Most people are good and well intentioned unless they so obviously show you otherwise...kinda like you. :thumbsup:

Just kiddin'


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## WoodstockMTB (Oct 5, 2010)

SandSpur said:


> I cant tell if this statement was made in jest or if youre actually serious..


There was very little seriousness in that entire post. Except the D-bag comment, of course.

Besides we all know Ti skewers are way more flexy than steel skewers and would not contribute to faster speed.


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## Mathrips (May 31, 2012)

Just got my LB 35mm hookless 29ers. Took a week and a half to get the "We shipped them". Took about one week to get here. Yay!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

WoodstockMTB said:


> Hey man...I'm the one having fun here. No worries on my end. Just having a good time with how wound up and mean you got over the weight of bike hubs in an internet forum.


lol
So now after you went off on a 400 word post explaining all the reasons why weight doesn't matter after you brought it up in the first place, I'm the one who is wound up and mean?
Good stuff... couldn't make it up... do you have a "mean people suck" bumper sticker?



WoodstockMTB said:


> DTs are easily over 100G lighter. I9s? I stand corrected...the newer torch hubs they use in the wheels they build are in fact lighter, but the Classics are not. So, I'll concede defeat to your clear superior bicycle hub weight knowledge.


The point is you don't know what you're talking about (still) and are slinging crap out without taking 30 seconds to check the facts.
"DTs are easily over 100g lighter" is wrong... and it only takes a couple of clicks to show that. You're just shooting from the hip with numbers, off base, and crying about getting called on it.
Get over it... it's really not that big a deal. If you don't actually know how much lighter they are, which you clearly don't, either don't say anything or don't say "easily over 100g" easy stuff.



WoodstockMTB said:


> Good rule to live by: Give people the benefit of the doubt. Most people are good and well intentioned unless they so obviously show you otherwise...kinda like you. :thumbsup:


I agree with that, which is why I wonder why someone would throw out BS that is easy to check and verify is wrong. Lazy? Who knows? I don't really care, but I correct the facts, so someone else doesn't see your misinformed claims and take them as fact.



WoodstockMTB said:


> Just kiddin'


again... hilarious... your rule to live by doesn't apply to you. Can't make this s**t up.


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## geeride7 (Jul 9, 2006)

Mathrips said:


> Just got my LB 35mm hookless 29ers. Took a week and a half to get the "We shipped them". Took about one week to get here. Yay!


I purchased a 35external/30mm internal hookless 29er wheelset 2 weeks ago and they haven't shipped yet. 3 days ago the rims were "still on painting line, we have prepared hubs, spokes & nipples ready". Hoping painting is another term for layup and the wheels are built quickly. The new bike is delayed, too, so it could work out OK.


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## Chowder Head (Sep 26, 2010)

Mathrips said:


> Just got my LB 35mm hookless 29ers. Took a week and a half to get the "We shipped them". Took about one week to get here. Yay!


When did you order? And did you order the matte ud finish (I heard those ship quicker) I ordered mine on the 10th and haven't received the email yet. Mine are matte 3k

Thanks,

Matt


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## Jack0207 (Jan 29, 2012)

geeride7 said:


> I purchased a 35external/30mm internal hookless 29er wheelset 2 weeks ago and they haven't shipped yet. 3 days ago the rims were "still on painting line, we have prepared hubs, spokes & nipples ready". Hoping painting is another term for layup and the wheels are built quickly. The new bike is delayed, too, so it could work out OK.


I ordered a wheel set on the16th and am hanging out to get them as well. Did you request a status update on the wheels or did one come through automatically?


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## geeride7 (Jul 9, 2006)

Matt in Temecula said:


> When did you order? And did you order the matte ud finish (I heard those ship quicker) I ordered mine on the 10th and haven't received the email yet. Mine are matte 3k
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Matt


Mathrips just got his hookless 29ers on 5/28. Took a week and a half to get the ship notification. Then a week to ship. When did Mathrips order them?
A: A long time ago
B: The day before yesterday
C: 2 and a half weeks before 5/28
D: all of the above
E: A & C only

MATHRIPS!!!! 



Jack0207 said:


> I ordered a wheel set on the16th and am hanging out to get them as well. Did you request a status update on the wheels or did one come through automatically?


I ordered on the 14th, Matte UD finish, and asked for a status update.


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## SJDude (Oct 29, 2009)

100 pages ago I got my rims but it was still winter here. They are the XC ones and they ride great. Have a couple hundred hard KM off road on them and they are flawless. 

I down't really notice better cornering, or acceleration prob cause I had high end aluminum rims but wow does the bike fly in the air now. I have so much more flickability once I leave the ground. It feels like the bike is 10 pounds lighter when I bunny hop, and wheelie drop. Unreal difference! 

Amazing rims LB.


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## Mathrips (May 31, 2012)

I ordered matt finish on the 8th. I did not ask for status updates. I just left them to do their job. They emailed me when the rims shipped, just like the other posts on here said they would. I figured asking them to stop work and send me updates would just make it take longer to get my rims done.


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

Mine just arrived, more than a month with customs stop. Really impressed about the rims; wide and light; very good finished.


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## Thomas (Feb 19, 2004)

Got a set of the new 29" hookless 24mm inside, 30mm outside rims, delivered today.
Weight is 405 and 406gr.
UD Glossy, finish is very nice

Sendt fra min SM-N9005 med Tapatalk


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## JTrue (Mar 23, 2007)

patrul said:


> Mine just arrived, more than a month with customs stop. Really impressed about the rims; wide and light; very good finished.
> 
> View attachment 898642
> 
> ...


What are people measuring ERD for the new 30mm internal 29" rims?


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## sand0kan (Jun 6, 2010)

My LB Wide rims started to crack at the nipples. They are almost 2 years old and did not ride them very much. They were build by one of the best wheelbuilders from our country.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Wheels are done!! 2 cross, Sapim Laser spokes, DT Swiss Gold nipples. 2 white spokes at valves for some pop. Hadley hubs, 30mm hookless rims. Front wheel at 761g, rear 937g for total 1698 that's with valves and tape installed. I will see how they compare to my i9 torch wheels.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Walt Disney's Frozen Head said:


> I, for one, am glad that you post here often as you're an incredibly knowledgeable person - esp in regard to wheelbuilding. But sometimes you come across as a HUGE douchenozzle.


Hey, and he won't even admit when he's wrong, so he's got that going for him too!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

turbodog said:


> Hey, and he won't even admit when he's wrong, so he's got that going for him too!


wow

it sucks that you still have red ass over a 5 year old conversation, so much so that you dug it up to waste space with personal digs.

get over it.

and thanks for the neg rep!
awwww... hipocrisy is cute too. 

oh... and you don't have to look any further than this thread to see where i misunderstood something and realized it, so retracted my comment and apologized... of course you wouldn't be interested in facts or anything.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> wow
> 
> it sucks that you still have red ass over a 5 year old conversation, so much so that you dug it up to waste space with personal digs.
> 
> ...


Awww you're cute.

Anyone can read the linked thread and see my point.

I'm done here.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

dgw7000 said:


> Wheels are done!! 2 cross, Sapim Laser spokes, DT Swiss Gold nipples. 2 white spokes at valves for some pop. Hadley hubs, 30mm hookless rims. Front wheel at 761g, rear 937g for total 1698 that's with valves and tape installed. I will see how they compare to my i9 torch wheels.


Those look sweet!

Could be my next set!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

turbodog said:


> Anyone can read the linked thread and see my point.


I'll hazard a guess that you're the only one who still cares.


turbodog said:


> I'm done here.


Good... don't let the door bump your ass on the way out. :arf:
Your valuable contributions will be missed. *sniff*


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## Sasquatch1413 (Nov 6, 2008)

Any 300+ lb monsters running any LB rims? I'm especially interested in the 35mm hookless. I have gained a lot of confidence in carbon parts but was still wondering if there was a big guinea pig out there for LB carbon?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Yea meltingfeather can sometimes come across as a "know it all". I remember when I posted about DT Swiss Aero Comp spokes and I stated my local shop said they were such a great spoke. He replied that they were nothing more than a bladed Comp spoke and way over priced. I was offended he said that thinking my shop knows best, turns out he was right on the money!! They were over priced bladed comp spokes nothing more, DT Swiss fed this marketing bullcrap to my shop and they fed it to me.

He may russell your feathers sometimes, But as I learn from guys like meltingfeather you start to appreciate all the info he offers. Thanks!!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I would look at the Derby 35mm HD rims for your weight. More money but worth it!!


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

deleted post


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

prowheelbuilder said:


> Regarding center flange comment, center flange still requires dropout width. Example: same the same shell is used and the dropout varies from 135 to 142. The drive side dimension will roughly stay the same however the non drive side offset would change by 7mm. The 135 would need much more dish and the 142 would need virtually none.
> 
> As for where ERD is measured too and me referring to it as the nipple seat, I have included a diagram to better depict why I refer to it as the nipple seat https://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/w...79308-light-bicycle-carbon-rims-width-erd.jpg .
> 
> ...


FWIW I just finished my 650b LB 35mm wide wheel build. DT 350s and revolution spokes. Put all the data in both the DT Swiss and the PWB calculators. The DT calculator lengths were all approx 2mm shorter than the PWB. I went with the DT since the hubs were DT and they should have the most accurate data. Well at build time the spokes were too short by 2-3 mm...barely making the ID let alone the nipple seat and certainly not the nipple slot. I took the revolutions to 120 to see if the stretch made much difference but not near enough. I had to buy longer spokes for the front non disc side and then used 16mm DT brass nips on the rear instead of the 12mm alloy I had intended. Not perfect but will do.

So why the difference in the two calculators? And there seems to be a lot of opinion on spoke tension. For the LB carbon rims what is the desired spoke tension? Does that figure depend on the spoke gauge or the spoke length. On my build I brought the drive side tension to 100 which was purely my own middle of the road judgement after seeing figures tossed about from 90 to 130. Maybe 100 is too low?

thanks


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Snipe said:


> FWIW I just finished my 650b LB 35mm wide wheel build. DT 350s and revolution spokes. Put all the data in both the DT Swiss and the PWB calculators. The DT calculator lengths were all approx 2mm shorter than the PWB. I went with the DT since the hubs were DT and they should have the most accurate data. Well at build time the spokes were too short by 2-3 mm...barely making the ID let alone the nipple seat and certainly not the nipple slot. I took the revolutions to 120 to see if the stretch made much difference but not near enough. I had to buy longer spokes for the front non disc side and then used 16mm DT brass nips on the rear instead of the 12mm alloy I had intended. Not perfect but will do.


Did you measure the ERD or plug in a reported number from somewhere?
It's a simple calculation and DT's calculator is dead on. PWB calculator is garbage. It makes behind the scenes adjustments that it does not disclose. It's a coincidence that it may have been right in this particular application.



Snipe said:


> So why the difference in the two calculators? And there seems to be a lot of opinion on spoke tension. For the LB carbon rims what is the desired spoke tension? Does that figure depend on the spoke gauge or the spoke length. On my build I brought the drive side tension to 100 which was purely my own middle of the road judgement after seeing figures tossed about from 90 to 130. Maybe 100 is too low?
> 
> thanks


100-110 kgf is fine.


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

^ this.
And, you should preferably always measure the ERD yourself.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Snipe said:


> So why the difference in the two calculators?


Because the PWB calculator makes adjustments to the true calculation behind the scenes that you can't see and which they don't disclose... arbitrary additions of assumed dimensions to the actual calculated length.
The bottom line is that it was a coincidence that the PWB calculator was closer in your case. It was because of an input error, most likely you used a reported ERD value that was smaller than actual and since PWB arbitrarily adds to the calculated spoke length, their result was closer..


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

meltingfeather said:


> Because the PWB calculator makes adjustments to the true calculation behind the scenes that you can't see and which they don't disclose... arbitrary additions of assumed dimensions to the actual calculated length.
> The bottom line is that it was a coincidence that the PWB calculator was closer in your case. It was because of an input error, most likely you used a reported ERD value that was smaller than actual and since PWB arbitrarily adds to the calculated spoke length, their result was closer..


It would appear that the only way to be sure of the ERD is to measure it yourself. When it was apparent that the spokes were short I should have measured it and determined if that was the problem...I didn't. I just got on with the wheel build. I made the assumption that since these wheels are built in metal molds that they should be pretty accurate. I assume there is no freehand step in the manufacture process. So where would the dimension variations come as compared to the manufacturers spec. Variation in dimension between molds? I also assumed that the hub data in the two calculators was accurate...poor assumption maybe?

As to the calculators being more transparent, I would agree that it would be better if there were descriptions of exactly where the spoke length is calculated to so that you could make your own adjustments. Again I assumed that the DT calculator would take the spoke length to the nipple slot but it doesn't say this that I saw anywhere. So where in fact do they calculate it to...nipple seat?

Anyway, I have another set of rims coming and I will wait till I have them in my hand and measure my own ERD and see how it compares to spec. thanks for the input MF. appreciated.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Snipe said:


> It would appear that the only way to be sure of the ERD is to measure it yourself. When it was apparent that the spokes were short I should have measured it and determined if that was the problem...I didn't. I just got on with the wheel build. I made the assumption that since these wheels are built in metal molds that they should be pretty accurate. I assume there is no freehand step in the manufacture process. So where would the dimension variations come as compared to the manufacturers spec. Variation in dimension between molds?


It's not so much variation between rims as people not understanding and measuring ERD correctly (as it is used in the calculation). It is kind of shocking how many people that you would think understand the calculation do not. The conversation above is an example.


Snipe said:


> I also assumed that the hub data in the two calculators was accurate...poor assumption maybe?


You have to be careful anytime you use dimensions you didn't measure. DT's database for DT products is expectedly accurate. For others it can be spotty.
I'm pretty sure I remember confirming that the dimensions in the PWB calculator for a very common hub (Hope Pro 2) were incorrect, which is kind of surprising given the ease of finding accurate dimensions online and also measuring, though their backward, Mavic-style use of locknut-to-flange has to be converted.
The PWB calculator is pretty worthless all around. It seems like they just duplicated Mavic's online calculator, and of course got a product equally confusing and ridiculous.
There are much better tools.



Snipe said:


> IAs to the calculators being more transparent, I would agree that it would be better if there were descriptions of exactly where the spoke length is calculated to so that you could make your own adjustments. Again I assumed that the DT calculator would take the spoke length to the nipple slot but it doesn't say this that I saw anywhere. So where in fact do they calculate it to...nipple seat?


They do tell you... sort of. In the instructions for measuring ERD on the "Help" page they describe (in a so so translation) how it is measured. By the calculation ERD has one definition: the diameter of the circle made by the spoke ends in a built wheel. It is pretty universally accepted that between the bottom of the slot and the end of the nipple is ideal, so that's what should be used for the measurements.



Snipe said:


> IAnyway, I have another set of rims coming and I will wait till I have them in my hand and measure my own ERD and see how it compares to spec. thanks for the input MF. appreciated.


Use the instructions on Roger Musson's website. Forget PWB.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

How are folks setting up tubeless on the 27mm hookless rims? I'm having a very hard time with mine. I'm using maxxis ikon 2.2s exo (not tubeless ready). I started with one layer of Stan's tape and had zero luck. Tried inflating a tube to set one side of the bead, but the tire would fall right back into the channel when the tube was deflated. I added a layer of gorilla tape, still no go. Another layer of gorilla tape finally let me air the tires up, but they'd still fall into the channel as soon as the pressure dropped. I finally got it set by inflating with no valve core, sticking my finger over the empty valve to keep pressure, then quickly and frantically screwing in the valve core before the air rushed out. It was a pain in the garage and left me less than confident in how well the rim would retain the tire.

Do I need to switch to tubeless ready tires? I've ran these types of tires are on Stan's rims for the last couple of years with zero issues. I know Stan's are different, but I didn't expect to have this much trouble...


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I had to problem with my 30mm hookless with Ignitors Tires. I always remove the valve stem core. With my compressor and my air blow nozzle with rubber tip, just use bursts of high pressure and every tire seats in seconds. Reinstall valve core, works perfect every time !!


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

I have the 27mm LB hookless with one layer of Orange Seal tape (same as stans). No problems with a Maxxis DHF 2.3 TR, DHR2 2.3 TR, and an Ardent 2.4 exo non-TR. Seated quick and easy with a compressor, with the valve stems in. Using sealant and I paint the bead with sealant upon inflation (creature of habit, always done this).


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

I do have that same ikon 2.2 exo non-tr sitting on the shelf. If i get a chance soon, I'll see if its as problematic as yours.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

I have an Ikon 2.35 exo non-tr mounted on a 27 mm hookless rim. With one layer of Stan's tape. Used 1 CO2 cartridge to seat, but it stayed seated when depressurized.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## miccc99 (Nov 2, 2010)

TechniKal said:


> How are folks setting up tubeless on the 27mm hookless rims? I'm having a very hard time with mine. I'm using maxxis ikon 2.2s exo (not tubeless ready). I started with one layer of Stan's tape and had zero luck. Tried inflating a tube to set one side of the bead, but the tire would fall right back into the channel when the tube was deflated. I added a layer of gorilla tape, still no go. Another layer of gorilla tape finally let me air the tires up, but they'd still fall into the channel as soon as the pressure dropped. I finally got it set by inflating with no valve core, sticking my finger over the empty valve to keep pressure, then quickly and frantically screwing in the valve core before the air rushed out. It was a pain in the garage and left me less than confident in how well the rim would retain the tire.
> 
> Do I need to switch to tubeless ready tires? I've ran these types of tires are on Stan's rims for the last couple of years with zero issues. I know Stan's are different, but I didn't expect to have this much trouble...


Same here with my 27mm hookless rims. When originally set up, I finally got them seated with 1 layer of stan's tape and careful rotational positioning of tyre on rim, soap and water, using air compressor, and lots of patience.

Just had the back tyre off to tweak the spoke tension - same problem remounting, so added 1 layer of gorilla tape with success in about 30 seconds.

Using Nobby nick on front, racing Ralph rear, both 2.25 snake skin Evo.


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## M0riarty (Aug 2, 2007)

miccc99 said:


> Same here with my 27mm hookless rims. When originally set up, I finally got them seated with 1 layer of stan's tape and careful rotational positioning of tyre on rim, soap and water, using air compressor, and lots of patience.
> 
> Just had the back tyre off to tweak the spoke tension - same problem remounting, so added 1 layer of gorilla tape with success in about 30 seconds.
> 
> Using Nobby nick on front, racing Ralph rear, both 2.25 snake skin Evo.


From my recent experience with the 27mm Hookless, I first attempted to mount up a non-TR Ardent using a compressor/soap/water. I had no luck attempting to mount it - removed valve cores, added another layer of tape, you name it.

Second attempt I mounted up Specialized TR-ready tires I had laying around (Renegade and Ground Control) and they literally aired up on the first attempt - using just a floor pump and soap/water!

With the Spesh tires it was definitely the easiest tubeless mounting experience I have had to date. That said, I will probably re-attempt the non-TR Ardent at a later date. I'm thinking one more layer of tape would be the ticket.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

M0riarty said:


> From my recent experience with the 27mm Hookless, I first attempted to mount up a non-TR Ardent using a compressor/soap/water. I had no luck attempting to mount it - removed valve cores, added another layer of tape, you name it.
> 
> Second attempt I mounted up Specialized TR-ready tires I had laying around (Renegade and Ground Control) and they literally aired up on the first attempt - using just a floor pump and soap/water!
> 
> With the Spesh tires it was definitely the easiest tubeless mounting experience I have had to date. That said, I will probably re-attempt the non-TR Ardent at a later date. I'm thinking one more layer of tape would be the ticket.


"With the Spesh tires it was definitely the easiest tubeless mounting experience I have had to date."

Couldn't agree more. All three of my bikes run Special Ed tires tubeless and are fantastic.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

*Comments about this LB Wheel Build???*

After a fair amount of research I think I am ready to buy a wheelset from LB but first I wanted to ask here if my choices are reasonable.

35mm outer 30mm inner width rims.
LB default Pillar Aero spokes
Brass nipples (I'll be using Stans and want to avoid oxidation.)
Novatec 771 772 hubs
32 holes

These will be used with Maxxis Ikon 29" 2.35 tires.

I prefer the look of 3k carbon finish but I believe I read here that UD is stronger and that UD matte has the shortest lead time. Is this correct? LB said the lead time is the same for all of the finishes.

Are the default Pillar aero spokes a good choice?

I want these wide rims for better grip, better speed via lower pressure.
Durability is more important to me than weight. I weigh 170 lbs = 78kg and am not very aggressive or technical but I like semi-steep climbs and am getting a little more daring around rocks. I have yet to get any air other than hopping over reptiles..

Thanks!


----------



## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Iplay newest 30mm hookless rims

Here are some pictures for reference

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


----------



## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

3k vs UD - i reckon there'd be very little in it strength/weight-wise. so little, that you should go with what you like the look of.

as for shortest lead time, it is probably a bit of a lottery. previously, UD matte did have the shortest lead time. dunno if that is still the case. for all we know, they could have done a batch of 3k gloss recently. if you don't have another set of wheels to ride, you should send them an email and ask before ordering. otherwise, just get the finish that you like the look of, and deal with a potentially longer lead team - after all, you could be riding those rims for a long time.

the pillar 1420 spokes don't seem to have any glaring problems. i think you should feel reasonably comfortable getting those. i do wonder why LB don't use 1422 spokes though.

that wheel build should be fine for just about anyone, except for a clydesdale downhiller. at your weight, with 32 spokes, even those thin cross-section spokes should be fine, as the rim will have the stiffness/strength to keep it all pretty straight. if anything, based on your described riding style, the rims might almost be overkill. but, at least it opens your options up for super-low pressure burp-free riding. 

BTW, make sure you don't get the "DH" version. The AM version would be more than enough anyway.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I have the UD matte finish, I wish I went with 3k matte. The UD matte really just looks like a alloy rim, with 3k you can at least see the carbon finish. Derby will be my next rims, my friend has them they are so nice!! I love the shape and profile of them. One thing for sure carbon rims all the way!!


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

sclyde2 said:


> 3k vs UD - i reckon there'd be very little in it strength/weight-wise. so little, that you should go with what you like the look of.
> 
> as for shortest lead time, it is probably a bit of a lottery. previously, UD matte did have the shortest lead time. dunno if that is still the case. for all we know, they could have done a batch of 3k gloss recently. if you don't have another set of wheels to ride, you should send them an email and ask before ordering. otherwise, just get the finish that you like the look of, and deal with a potentially longer lead team - after all, you could be riding those rims for a long time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all of the advice. I already asked which finishes have the fastest lead times and they replied it is the same. However, I believe they have said that in the past but lead times have still varied considerable. Still, I will order 3k matt because of the bling look.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

I built the 650b for my Bronson in the 35mm width and it is a big rim. I just bought a pair of their 30mm hookless 29er rims in the regular build. I thought the 35 would be too much. I will use it mainly for XC and light AM. The 30mm 29er hookless rims are not listed on their website. You just have to ask Nancy. Just so you know all your options.

The Pillar spokes I have not used but the reviews I could find were good. Finding replacements I felt was the biggest issue so I went with DT Revolutions which I can find locally. make sure you get some extras at each length. Considering that the rim is sealed with tape and the Stan's doesn't touch the nipples I don't understand the concern about corrosion. Other things will corrode the alloy nipples over time. But if weight is not an issue and durability is then I would go with brass.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

dugt said:


> Thanks for all of the advice. I already asked which finishes have the fastest lead times and they replied it is the same. However, I believe they have said that in the past but lead times have still varied considerable. Still, I will order 3k matt because of the bling look.


You should really ask them what they have in stock because that will be the fastest way of you getting your wheel set. As LB can ship it out ASAP.

If they have none in stock ask which finish are being made at this point in time.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

So I've got the new wider clincher rims laced up myself from 8 months ago. So far I've got over 2000 miles of mostly racing on these wheels. I've got two 24hr solos, three 12hr solos, a couple DH and over twenty XC races so far on this wheelset. I'm riding a Hardtail so when I send the bike off drops at speed the rear wheel gets its ass kicked. I'm felt the rear tire bottom out landing on smooth dirt several dozen times(I do my best to avoid this) but over time I've honestly become more worried my frame is going to break before my wheels ever do. 

Well it happened I broke a spoke, and half a dozen others where super loose. I do check my wheel for straitness before every ride and grab the spokes to make sure there is no loose ones. This was no different before this weekend 12hr race so I know I started with a good wheel. The one thing I've been meaning to do is recheck my overall spoke tension to make sure I'm still above 100kg set them at 110-120 originally but I just haven't gotten around to it. So I finished my race logging in over 140 miles in 12hr and the next day my buddy points out I've got a broken spoke. I check and sure enough it's broken right at the J-bend and a bunch of others all super loose. I spin the wheel and it's only got a 1/4 wobble at most and I didn't even feel it on my final laps. I don't know when it happened but the course had two rather fast lines with 3-4' drops that most riders were going around. I hit those drops every lap and unless my wheel fails on the very last lap then I probably kept beat it to **** after things started coming loose. 

If I had been using crest ztr rims I have little doubt I would have ruined the rim and probably have ended my race early, but not these carbon hoops. I've already replaced the spoke and re-trued the wheel and brought everything back up to 125kg and again sealed the threads with locking agent. I'll get my first chance to ride it again tonight at the races where miles of baby heads come standard. 

If I had $500 for another set of I9 hubs I'd have already built a second set of these wheels but alas the money always seems to end up somewhere else.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

Snipe said:


> I built the 650b for my Bronson in the 35mm width and it is a big rim. I just bought a pair of their 30mm hookless 29er rims in the regular build. I thought the 35 would be too much. I will use it mainly for XC and light AM. The 30mm 29er hookless rims are not listed on their website. You just have to ask Nancy. Just so you know all your options.
> 
> The Pillar spokes I have not used but the reviews I could find were good. Finding replacements I felt was the biggest issue so I went with DT Revolutions which I can find locally. make sure you get some extras at each length. Considering that the rim is sealed with tape and the Stan's doesn't touch the nipples I don't understand the concern about corrosion. Other things will corrode the alloy nipples over time. But if weight is not an issue and durability is then I would go with brass.


Thanks, Snipe, for your info.

I know the Stan's is sealed from the nipples but still I have heard that there is much more corrosion when Stan's is used. Since Stan's is acidic, it might take little seepage or vapor to cause the corrosion, especially since the nipples are in a concealed hula hoop.

I see your Bronson is FS. My bike is a hard tail and the more volume the merrier for me. What are you going to do with the 35mm wheels you built? In what way did you think they were, "Too much". What size tires do you use?

Thanks for the recommendation to get extra spokes of each size. I will ask LB for that.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dugt said:


> Thanks, Snipe, for your info.
> 
> I know the Stan's is sealed from the nipples but still I have heard that there is much more corrosion when Stan's is used. Since Stan's is acidic, it might take little seepage or vapor to cause the corrosion, especially since the nipples are in a concealed hula hoop.


Stan's is not acidic. It is basic. Acid (e.g., CO2) makes it coagulate and form Stan's boogers.
Ammonia does corrode aluminum, and it can facilitate galvanic corrosion as the electrolyte that allows current flow, but I suspect these things are beyond the discussion.


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

PeterQ520 said:


> Iplay newest 30mm hookless rims
> 
> Here are some pictures for reference
> 
> ...


What about the weight on 29er?

If you manufacture real tubeless compatible rims - with the lip at the bead - it think I won't be the only one buying you a pair. Why not?


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

patrul said:


> What about the weight on 29er?
> 
> If you manufacture real tubeless compatible rims - with the lip at the bead - it think I won't be the only one buying you a pair. Why not?


Is that a secret code message or do you really think that makes sense?


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

patrul said:


> What about the weight on 29er?
> 
> If you manufacture real tubeless compatible rims - with the lip at the bead - it think I won't be the only one buying you a pair. Why not?


The weight of IP-HR930C hooklees rim is around 410+/-15g/piece, there is picture there you can see.

And Of course we have IP-RM930C rims bead hook tubeless compatible rims available


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

Seems these 30 or 35mm rims are my next ones, built to WTB LaserDisc Lite hubs using DT-Swiss Revolution 2.0/1.5 spokes 3-cross and brass nipples.

Has anyone used this wide rims with 54mm tires ? Like my Schwalbe Thunder Burts which are currently on WTB LaserDisc rims.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

PeterQ520 said:


> The weight of IP-HR930C hooklees rim is around 410+/-15g/piece, there is picture there you can see.
> 
> And Of course we have IP-RM930C rims bead hook tubeless compatible rims available
> View attachment 900553
> ...


Peter, Do you have any plans to release a deeper section rim like derbys at a 30.5 depth?

Derby specs:

BSD: 622mm
Outer width: 35mm
Inner width: 29mm
Depth: 30.5mm (internal nipple compatible)
Channel depth: 8mm
ERD: 580mm

I want 30/35 wide but im after a deeper rim.

Thanks


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

How are the generic Hubs LB have on offer holding up?
I know I've read about it in this thread, but searching 241 pages would take alot longer than having a friendly soul write a couple of words


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## dirkdaddy (Sep 4, 2007)

I read a lot if not most of it...I think most everyone I saw was pretty happy with generic hubs, not the lightest but seem to hold up. The guys with more $ budget would go with Hope or other obviously. I'm thinking of going generic myself, but just got a set of brakes and have to save some more $ for more goodies. I'm wishing: UD matt 29r 30mm hookless (seems to be trend) generic hubs, brass nipples.



Vegard said:


> How are the generic Hubs LB have on offer holding up?
> I know I've read about it in this thread, but searching 241 pages would take alot longer than having a friendly soul write a couple of words


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## Polishtea (Jan 6, 2014)

Just wanted to happily report that I've changed out my Sun Ringle Inferno 27s (which didn't hold my Specialized 2bliss tires well) for Light Bike's AM 29er carbons and lost over 7oz each wheel. Wheelset was built up reusing the same front and rear hubs, cassette, and # of spokes. 

Tubeless Tallboy LTc with carbon rims and bars is a very, very light bike...


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## tmilam (Oct 13, 2010)

Anyone build up a SS set of wheels that are 12x142?


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

dugt said:


> Is that a secret code message or do you really think that makes sense?


For sure, that makes sense. You should be aware of what is a tubeless rim. Don't you?


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

patrul said:


> What about the weight on 29er?
> 
> If you manufacture real tubeless compatible rims - with the lip at the bead - it think I won't be the only one buying you a pair. Why not?


Show your post to someone who speaks native English and ask them what they think you are trying to say.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

J273 said:


> Peter, Do you have any plans to release a deeper section rim like derbys at a 30.5 depth?
> 
> Derby specs:
> 
> ...


Typical, want to support that asswipe that won't bother to support this site and take out an add, but too cheap to support the person that does and makes the design you want.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

PeterQ520 said:


> The weight of IP-HR930C hooklees rim is around 410+/-15g/piece, there is picture there you can see.
> 
> And Of course we have IP-RM930C rims bead hook tubeless compatible rims available
> View attachment 900553
> ...


peter this site is single handedly the best advertising that you guys get. Why dont you pay to get a manufacturers forum or at least pay for your advertising? Not sure how much it costs, but if it is 1000/year or something it would help your public relations.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

goodmojo said:


> peter this site is single handedly the best advertising that you guys get. Why dont you pay to get a manufacturers forum or at least pay for your advertising? Not sure how much it costs, but if it is 1000/year or something it would help your public relations.


I agree even if they added the cost to their rims it shouldn't be that much money.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

goodmojo said:


> peter this site is single handedly the best advertising that you guys get. Why dont you pay to get a manufacturers forum or at least pay for your advertising? Not sure how much it costs, but if it is 1000/year or something it would help your public relations.





PauLCa916 said:


> I agree even if they added the cost to their rims it shouldn't be that much money.


It's been mentioned to him many times already.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

The admin must not mind for whatever reason. Related to someone?


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

tiretracks said:


> The admin must not mind for whatever reason. Related to someone?


Traffic is traffic. Look at how many ppl search Chinese carbon wheels and this is the first thing that pops up.

Does Peter post pricing? I can't recall ever seeing pricing.

I think it's a grey area but for every one person aggravated about it there are tons of ppl that don't care. Shutting down the thread prob would cost more $$$ in clicks than a vendor set up bring in.

If it's really a huge deal then Derby or Nox or that giant tool Ya Mon's bs rim company would be a better option.

And that's a perfectly fine way to go. Cept ya mon. He's a tool. F that guy.

For guys like me that have an technical understanding of carbon and these things in general I think cheap Chinese carbon is a cost effective way of getting better wheels.

But you are also rolling the dice if you shred one too. You kill a derby you can call them and chat about it. That is certainly a nice thing to have in the event of something bad.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

months ago he did try to become a paid sponsor and, because of his language barrier, asked admin how he could go about "spamming" the forum (since everyone keeps telling him there is "paid spam"). Admin told him they didnt allow "spam" on the site and left it at that....


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Have you guys seen the new 2015 Roval Fattie wheels? I only mention them because they have the same dimensions 30mmID/35mmOD as the widest LB hookless rims. It is kind of funny, because a lot of people were wondering if the early LB rims were unbranded Rovals, and now it is kind of the reverse situation, with the generic coming out before the "name brand" models.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

TheKaiser said:


> Have you guys seen the new 2015 Roval Fattie wheels? I only mention them because they have the same dimensions 30mmID/35mmOD as the widest LB hookless rims. It is kind of funny, because a lot of people were wondering if the early LB rims were unbranded Rovals, and now it is kind of the reverse situation, with the generic coming out before the "name brand" models.


Thanks for that info. It certainly lends some legitimacy to the benefits of 30mm inner dim rims. 
They said they used 2.3" casing tires. "Optimum pressures were a little lower, about three PSI in most cases...."


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

TheKaiser said:


> Have you guys seen the new 2015 Roval Fattie wheels? I only mention them because they have the same dimensions 30mmID/35mmOD as the widest LB hookless rims. It is kind of funny, because a lot of people were wondering if the early LB rims were unbranded Rovals, and now it is kind of the reverse situation, with the generic coming out before the "name brand" models.


Really want to test those spoke plugs on LB rims


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## Jack0207 (Jan 29, 2012)

Well my wheels finally arrived - will post pics once I have the tyres on etc.

For those that have the 30mm ID LB wheels, how many wraps of stan's tape did you use and did you cover the nipple holes only or tape from one inside edge of the rim to the other inside edge?

Ta
Matt


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

*Promotion! XM iplay 35mm OD / 30mm ID hookleess rim IP-HR935C*

Here are some pictures of IP-HR935C rims for reference

IP-HR935C 35mm OD/30mm ID hookless rim weight:

440+/-15g

And we have these rims and IP-HR930C hookless rims for promotion from June 18th to July 25th. Please feel free to contact me.

29er rim,Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Email: [email protected]
SKype: peterque520


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

Jack0207 said:


> Well my wheels finally arrived - will post pics once I have the tyres on etc.
> 
> For those that have the 30mm ID LB wheels, how many wraps of stan's tape did you use and did you cover the nipple holes only or tape from one inside edge of the rim to the other inside edge?


I am also waiting for my new 30mm ID hookless LB wheels and I was planning to use Notubes yellow tape 12 mm wide.
The only function of the tape is to close the spoke holes or am I missing something?

I always start on the opposite side of the valve and overlap only 1 cm so I use just one wrap.


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

PeterQ520 said:


> View attachment 901760










Interesting to compare with the LB rim:


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## Kegelhoff (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm hoping to get my 30mm hookless LB wheelset today also !!! Looking forward to seeing what the final weight will be with the DT240 hubs and DT Rev spokes. Will post once I pick them up and weigh them.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

SandSpur said:


> months ago he did try to become a paid sponsor and, because of his language barrier, asked admin how he could go about "spamming" the forum (since everyone keeps telling him there is "paid spam"). Admin told him they didnt allow "spam" on the site and left it at that....


LOL :thumbsup:


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## mattedhead (Jan 24, 2012)

Does anyone have the specs for the LB 30mm (outer) hookless rims? i.e. inner width, weight, measured erd?

Thanks in advance.


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## Thomas (Feb 19, 2004)

I have just build up a set of the new 29" Hookles 30mm outside 24mm inside width.

Build them up with DT 240 centerlock hubs 135mm QR rear, and 15mm "Fifteen" front hub
Sapim Laser spokes and DT 12mm alu nipples.
Used DT Swiss and Wheelpro calculator
Erd 601mm

Front wheel:
Left side = 292mm
Right side = 294mm

Rear wheel:
Left side = 294mm
Right side = 292mm

Spoke ends where perfect at the end of the nipple heads

Front wheel = 697gr
Rear wheel = 800gr

/Thomas


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## mattedhead (Jan 24, 2012)

Thomas said:


> I have just build up a set of the new 29" Hookles 30mm outside 24mm inside width.
> 
> Build them up with DT 240 centerlock hubs 135mm QR rear, and 15mm "Fifteen" front hub
> Sapim Laser spokes and DT 12mm alu nipples.
> ...


Thanks Thomas! Sweet wheelset!

Did you get a weight on the rims themselves?


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## Thomas (Feb 19, 2004)

Sorry.....Forgot.
Rims where 405 and 406gr

/Thomas


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Kappius now has very light 30mm wide carbon rims at 365g with hook for 599.00 each, not cheep!!


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

dgw7000 said:


> Kappius now has very light 30mm wide carbon rims at 365g with hook for 599.00 each, not cheep!!


Ironical once you check out who started the thread.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I had no idea!! I was talking to Jake at Project 321 today about there new lighter 285g hubs and he said they are now offering Kappius rims. Project 321 is making some good stuff and are great to deal with!!


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## jvossman (Jan 12, 2004)

I'd like to interrupt this thread to report that my light bicycle front wheel was stolen from me in Hialeah FL. The person who stole it likely doesn't know what he got and probably won't fit on his bike. I'm searching ebay and craigslist, but if somehow you find out someone is selling a carbon 29er front wheel cheap, I offer $100 reward and a bottle of illegal cuban rum, mtbr once helped get my bilenky back so maybe there's another miracle possible. Link to facebook here.. https://www.facebook.com/groups/160573703971564/permalink/847197635309164/

and a photo...








Oh novatec 15mm hub, there may be some black sealer solvent at the valve core from my setting up tubeless issues...

Thanks in advance. 
JV
Miami FL


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## Jack0207 (Jan 29, 2012)

Fitted up my new LB wheel set (29er 3K matte 30mmID AM with hope hubs and pillar aero spokes). Took just over an hr to fit up both and couldn't be happier. 
Wheels spin up quicker/easier, bike handles a lot differently (read better) and now it literally pops off any lumps/bumps whereas before it felt more like a tank to get off the ground.
Finish of the final wheel set was perfect - no nipple bulges or cracks in carbon finish that some others have seen and man this Hope hub is loud.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

Jack0207 said:


> Fitted up my new LB wheel set (29er 3K matte 30mmID AM with hope hubs and pillar aero spokes). Took just over an hr to fit up both and couldn't be happier.
> Wheels spin up quicker/easier, bike handles a lot differently (read better) and now it literally pops off any lumps/bumps whereas before it felt more like a tank to get off the ground.
> Finish of the final wheel set was perfect - no nipple bulges or cracks in carbon finish that some others have seen and man this Hope hub is loud.


How can you claim the 30mm rims are better when many "experts" who have not tried them claim they are too wide? 

Seriously, thanks for your report. It sounds like they are exceeding your expectations and I am happy for you. I hope I am just as happy for me when I get mine in a couple of weeks.

Are these on a relatively light cf bike? What size tires?

dt


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## Jack0207 (Jan 29, 2012)

dugt said:


> I hope I am just as happy for me when I get mine in a couple of weeks.
> 
> Are these on a relatively light cf bike? What size tires?
> 
> dt


As long as the QC is done properly on your wheels, I have no doubt you will be happy with them. I was surprised at how much more direct the steering felt along with responsiveness. The amount of pop difference is due to the old stock P-XC2 wheels flexing and absorbing a lot of the energy.

Fitted to Anthem X29er with a few modifications, so even for an alu bike it is pretty light to start with.
Tyres fitted:
Front - Hans Dampf 2.35
Rear - Racing Ralph 2.2
My wife and kids noticed the extra beefiness of the tyres as soon as they were fitted. Overall, both the front and rear have slightly more width and give it a tractor like appearance. Definitely is turning a few heads here in Japan....haha


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## Andy17 (Sep 18, 2011)

After a few hundred miles on my LB 35mm od hookless rims I am very happy. As Jack and others have stated the bike has a much different feel. Its much snappier and tracks better everywhere. The difference is really quite amazing. I am running these on a tallboy LTc and I weigh 185 before backpack and gear. So far they are holding up great and running very true. I have been running 22lbs in the back and 20 in the front which gives a great feel. The traction and feel at this is like the feel of the old rims at 28lbs but more traction and no roll over. I started at 28 rear and it was too hard, you have to lower the pressure some to get a good feel. I have had one tire cut which I think was due to low pressure and very aggressive down hill run in which I hit a big root VERY hard and cut the tire (WTB Bronson race) right at the rim(which would have cut a tire on my old rims too). So I may have to run a little more pressure on rough rides. I will add a couple lbs and see how much it affects the feel and performance.
Over all I am very happy with these rims. 
I used dt comps and I9 hubs with about 110tq drive side.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

Thanks for the report and encouragement, Andy. I can't wait to try these wheels.


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## Kegelhoff (Sep 11, 2013)

I now have a full week of riding on my "Monster Truck" 30mm ID LB hookless wheelset and have been playing with tire pressure during each ride. I'm now down to 21 PSI front and rear on my hardtail 29er and still using the 2.0" Specialized Captain tires. More then anything I notice the ability to climb stuff that I was never able to climb before. Super tech, loose rock, and steep sections that I was not able to make (or the other 8 guys I was riding with) yet I was able to make it for the first time with the new wheels. They also seem to really hold a line well while corning and I attribute this to the stiffer and wider carbon rims. This wheelset is the same weight (1520 grams) as the previous Crest wheelset I was using. So far ... I'm very happy.


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## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

I noticed an immediate and relatively dramatic improvement in climbing ability under all conditions. They just hook up and you get the power down.

I had to put my old wheel/tire combo back on for a ride, and I also really noticed how much more the tire under narrow rim squirmed in cornering.


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## drdre (Dec 15, 2005)

Any clydes out there running the 35mm 32h versions on am/heavy xc duty - did you lace with straightgage or double butted?

Andre


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## 5678 (Nov 21, 2013)

drdre said:


> Any clydes out there running the 35mm 32h versions on am/heavy xc duty - did you lace with straightgage or double butted?
> 
> Andre


I'm 105kg, I'm running the 35mm 29ers with DT Revs and DT BRass pro-locks. No issues to report.


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

Maybe they're not exactly the same but the new 30mm/35mm Specialized Roval Traverse Fattie resemble the LB35.
First Ride: Roval Traverse Fattie Wheels - Super Wide and Super Fast - Pinkbike


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Just got my second set of LB rims - weighed 360g at the shop each. First set I bought is AWESOME. Have about 500 miles on them. I originally got the AM version of the 29 hookless in 32 hole built on DTSWISS 350 hubs. The new ones are the XC version with 28 hole. Will have wheels built up,with DTSWISS 240s straight pull hubs.


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## dpom (Nov 1, 2011)

I am thinking about building up a set of LB 30mm rims. What is a good model hub that is XD Driver compatible? Looking for an economical solution.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

dpom said:


> I am thinking about building up a set of LB 30mm rims. What is a good model hub that is XD Driver compatible? Looking for an economical solution.


I had them build a set on Hopes for my wife and I'm very happy with the result.


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## drdre (Dec 15, 2005)

Hmm, so is anybody running straight gauge spokes at all?


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## mudpuppy (Feb 7, 2004)

I am running straight guage DT spokes with long brass nipples in a 2 cross setup...loving it so far!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

drdre said:


> Hmm, so is anybody running straight gauge spokes at all?


That's like asking if anyone has steel wheels and hubcaps on their Ferrari... but there are probably people who are.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

dpom said:


> I am thinking about building up a set of LB 30mm rims. What is a good model hub that is XD Driver compatible? Looking for an economical solution.


Novatec / Hope and others can be built by LB


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

I would check out the new MTB hubs at Bike Hub Store. They have a new set that is both front and rear convertible to through axle and the front rear pair is less than $150. That will be teh next set I use to build up some wheels.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The first wheelset I built before I started using Ti Prep to lube the nipples has significant galvanic corrosion after about 2 years. It was built with spoke prep.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/78zqlhgm4nn5wbn/AAAkULEIHWxXW8hZRYhqyZDla

I am rebuilding it currently with brass nipples. The spokes were Alpine 3's since it was my "strong" wheelset. My other 2 LB wheelsets have had no issues so far using Ti Prep on the nipple threads and the nipple seat area. I am not claiming that Ti Prep is a complete cure for galvanic corrosion, but it seems to have a beneficial effect so far. Testing will continue.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

yourdaguy said:


> The first wheelset I built before I started using Ti Prep to lube the nipples has significant galvanic corrosion after about 2 years. It was built with spoke prep.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/78zqlhgm4nn5wbn/AAAkULEIHWxXW8hZRYhqyZDla
> 
> I am rebuilding it currently with brass nipples. The spokes were Alpine 3's since it was my "strong" wheelset. My other 2 LB wheelsets have had no issues so far using Ti Prep on the nipple threads and the nipple seat area. I am not claiming that Ti Prep is a complete cure for galvanic corrosion, but it seems to have a beneficial effect so far. Testing will continue.


Thank you for the update! Out of curiosity, you mention the wheel showing corrosion is about 2yrs old, how long have the Ti-prepped wheels been in service?

Thx again


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Also, from your photo, am I correct that you could easily see the corrosion simply by removing the rim tape? 

If so, that bodes well for the weenies amongst us, as you could monitor your alloy nips once a year or so while changing tires. This is as opposed to corrosion that was severe, but limited to the faces of the nip directly contacting the rim, thereby obscuring it from view.


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## drdre (Dec 15, 2005)

mudpuppy said:


> I am running straight guage DT spokes with long brass nipples in a 2 cross setup...loving it so far!


Aha, so do you ever think it's too stiff? fwiw, this is for an am hard tail (yelling screamy) so it could definitely be too stiff. I'm thinking butted for the rear at least at this point maybe front too.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

All of my wheels were built in about an 8 month period so the other wheels are slightly "younger" I am using the Bontrager rim strips on all my wheels so I can check them occasionally but generally don't. The way I was alerted to this problem is that my rear wheel broke 2 nipples about a month ago and when I fixed it I noticed the problem, but did not have time to replace all the nipples. I decided that when I broke another nipple, I would rebuild the wheel and if I break any nipples on the front, I will rebuild it next. So I broke the 3rd nipple this week and I rebuilt the wheel last night and this morning using brass nipples. The front has less stress so It will probably be a while before I break the first nipple on it, but when it happens, I will rebuild with brass.


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## acleese (Jan 25, 2008)

I was thinking of buy a set of the narrower Carbonal 29er XC rims in hopes that I might be able to avoid using the weightier Bontrager rim strips and instead use Gorilla Tape. I've done quite a bit of searching but have not been able to find what Carbonal rim owners have had success with so far.

Have any of you Carbonal rim owners experimented with tape? How well does it work?


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## acleese (Jan 25, 2008)

Hi, have any of you Carbonal XC (the narrower one) 29er rim owners been using Gorilla tape or similar with success? I'm thinking of buying a pair of rims but would like to void using the heavier Bontrager strips.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

acleese said:


> Hi, have any of you Carbonal XC (the narrower one) 29er rim owners been using Gorilla tape or similar with success? I'm thinking of buying a pair of rims but would like to void using the heavier Bontrager strips.


It should work just as well, except you'll have to trim the Gorilla tape narrower to fit. Using the 1" wide GT with the 30mm internal rims, no trimming needed.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

While we are are on the subject of tubeless, What valve stem works well with these rims?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

dugt said:


> While we are are on the subject of tubeless, What valve stem works well with these rims?


You would need to use PRESTA VALVE. I just recycle (cut out) from an old 26er tubes that I've punctured. Works very well.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Jack0207 said:


> and man this Hope hub is loud.


Yeah, it makes it hard for you to sneak up behind someone to draft off of without them noticing!


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

pucked up said:


> You would need to use PRESTA VALVE. I just recycle (cut out) from an old 26er tubes that I've punctured. Works very well.


I tried that with my Giant wheels and it was a total failure but that may have been because of the deep center channel in the rims. Gorilla tape was not gorilla enough to prevent leaking. Did you use Gorilla tape?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

dugt said:


> I tried that with my Giant wheels and it was a total failure but that may have been because of the deep center channel in the rims. Gorilla tape was not gorilla enough to prevent leaking. Did you use Gorilla tape?


Yes, I used gorilla tape. I use this site for reference.

Tech How-To: Ghetto Tubeless for Mountain Bikes | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog

I'm not sure about Giant wheels set, I have a carbon set from LB. I read that a set of Giant wheels (PXC?) can be modified to tubeless, but haven't looked into it.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

pucked up said:


> Yes, I used gorilla tape. I use this site for reference.
> 
> Tech How-To: Ghetto Tubeless for Mountain Bikes | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog
> 
> I'm not sure about Giant wheels set, I have a carbon set from LB. I read that a set of Giant wheels (PXC?) can be modified to tubeless, but haven't looked into it.


Thanks for the info.

I asked you and am in this forum because I am getting some LB wheels too. In fact, I just heard they shipped today.

I finally got the Giant P-XC2 wheels sealed up by using the split-tube method. It was very easy that way but it does add weight because you need rim tape and half of a tube.


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## milnerpt (Dec 7, 2008)

dugt said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I asked you and am in this forum because I am getting some LB wheels too. In fact, I just heard they shipped today.
> 
> I finally got the Giant P-XC2 wheels sealed up by using the split-tube method. It was very easy that way but it does add weight because you need rim tape and half of a tube.


So next month, when I am done backing up and trying to catch up to speed on this long thread that has evolved quite a bit since the beginning....

LB= light bicycle = carbon part manufacturer, however most people are doing custom builds with their rims, right?

Generally a highly regarded manufacturer (as there are tons out there on ebay now), that people have had good experiences with, as well as appropriate warranties with flaws that happened early on?

I was looking at getting a set of Stans Arch EX, however for the price new, seems like I can get a set of these rims, some fair hubs of my own (or get some used chris kings on ebay), and build up something stiff and light that keeps a solid seal?


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

milnerpt said:


> So next month, when I am done backing up and trying to catch up to speed on this long thread that has evolved quite a bit since the beginning....
> 
> LB= light bicycle = carbon part manufacturer, however most people are doing custom builds with their rims, right?
> 
> ...


There is a set of blue I9's on the classifieds here I think $400


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

milnerpt said:


> So next month, when I am done backing up and trying to catch up to speed on this long thread that has evolved quite a bit since the beginning....
> 
> LB= light bicycle = carbon part manufacturer, however most people are doing custom builds with their rims, right?
> 
> ...


I don't know why you included my post in your post but since you did I will try to answer your questions.

I don't know if "Most people are doing custom builds with their (LB) rims." I know a lot of people buy their rims and a lot of people buy their complete wheels. I bought their complete wheels. You can get a custom build of their wheels.

I think they are generally highly regarded. I know of a quality problem with weak rim holes but they seemed to solve this a while ago.

You could build wheels yourself with LB rims if you know how or learn how and do a good job.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

Yesterday I was notified that my wheels shipped. XMS tracking says "Despatch from sorting center." How long does it usually take to get from that stage to my house in California or USA?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

You should get it within a week, give or take a couple of days.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

pucked up said:


> You should get it within a week, give or take a couple of days.


Thanks!

To whom it may concern. The lead time to ship my wheels was 14 days. I asked LB what finish would ship the fastest and they said they are all the same because they make them to order. I got 3k, matte, 32 hole. Two days after ordering I asked to change to 28 hole/spoke for both wheels but they said it was too late because the hubs had been ordered and the holes were drilled.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Just got a hookless 29 with the 22 internal width. 28 hole and it only weighed 340 gm on my scale! Ordered it on the 7th and got it on the 26th so not bad. Looks really nice. I tried to search the thread, but I can't seem to find which rim strip is recommend. I thought I saw something about a bontrager strip fitting perfectly in these. Or am I better off just trying to seal it up with some of the stan's yellow tape?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Or am I better off just trying to seal it up with some of the stan's yellow tape?


Yes! :thumbsup:


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

I need this for a new rear wheel.

Where are you all ordering from?

I don't want to read all 300pages to verify the source.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Trail_Blazer said:


> I need this for a new rear wheel.
> 
> Where are you all ordering from?
> 
> I don't want to read all 300pages to verify the source.


Light Bicycle

light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike Light-Bicycle


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## finbike (Apr 3, 2011)

Hi all
Planning on upgrading wheels on my Epic comp carbon 2014. I ride mostly XC-type terrain and very rarely any rock gardens etc. Can I go with new bead hookless 29" 27mm or should I order same wheel on 30 mm? I´m 6" 4´and weigh around 200 lbs.
28" or 32" holes? Any recommendations on hubs?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I would go 32 hole 30mm outside 24mm inside hookless rims about 400 grams each, give or take 5 grams. Project 321 hubs, Sapim Laser spokes with alloy nips 2 cross lacing.
Killer wheel set, light, strong, great engagement and long lasting. Great bling factor!!


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Just got a hookless 29 with the 22 internal width. 28 hole and it only weighed 340 gm on my scale! Ordered it on the 7th and got it on the 26th so not bad. Looks really nice. I tried to search the thread, but I can't seem to find which rim strip is recommend. I thought I saw something about a bontrager strip fitting perfectly in these. Or am I better off just trying to seal it up with some of the stan's yellow tape?


Just got my second set. First set for trail (AM version of hookless 29, 32 spokes, DTSWISS 350 hubs). Second set for XC (lighter version of hookless, 28 spokes, DTSWISS 240 hubs).

First wheelset has been nothing short of spectacular. Both wheelsets built up without issue.

New wheelset weighs 1440 grams! Lighter than ENVE M60 and 1700 dollars less. Mounted Spesh S Works Purgatory 2.3 on front and 2.1 S Works Ground Controls on back for blown out / super dry conditions here in SoCal. Bike is Pivot Mach 429 Carbon XT/XTR. Bike weight with KSLEV dropper post is 27 lbs. even.

Anyone hesitating to pull the trigger because of the "China" thing - give me a break. Heck, even my a Pivot carbon frame is made / manufactured in Asia. If you are on the fence, do it!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Waiting for my new Frame Pivot Mach 429 in green, should be next week. It should build up at 24.5 with XX1, LB rims, Enve stem bars and seatpost. Enve rims are just way to much money at 1 k each. I wish I went lighter on my hubs "Hadley" like Project 321 or Dt Swiss 240.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

dgw7000 said:


> Waiting for my new Frame Pivot Mach 429 in green, should be next week. It should build up at 24.5 with XX1, LB rims, Enve stem bars and seatpost. Enve rims are just way to much money at 1 k each. I wish I went lighter on my hubs "Hadley" like Project 321 or Dt Swiss 240.


_"I wish I went lighter on my hubs "Hadley" like Project 321 or Dt Swiss 240"_

I have one set of Hadley hubs and two sets of DT Swiss 240's. If I was to do it all over again it would be Hadley for all three bikes. A few grams is worth it:thumbsup:


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## rusto (Jan 19, 2011)

Has anyone ordered from carbonbicycle.cc? Seems like the same stuff/website but a bit cheaper. Any feedback would be great.

Carbon Bicycle,carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike CarbonBicycle


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

dgw7000 said:


> Waiting for my new Frame Pivot Mach 429 in green, should be next week. It should build up at 24.5 with XX1, LB rims, Enve stem bars and seatpost. Enve rims are just way to much money at 1 k each. I wish I went lighter on my hubs "Hadley" like Project 321 or Dt Swiss 240.


Nice! Green definitely makes the bike faster ;-)


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

*Tubeless tire mounting experiences on various LB rim profiles?*

Can anyone compare/contrast their tire mounting experiences on the various LB rim profiles? I'm specifically interested in differences among the three most common 29er versions:
35mm hookless rim
27mm hookless rim
30mm "wider" hooked rim

I have lots of experience with various tires on the 30mm external width "wider" 29er rims. I'm hoping others with experience on both those older "wider" rims and the newer hookless rims could offer observations regarding tire mounting on the hookless models.

The 30mm external model has been OK w.r.t. tire mounting. I've tried it w/ the Bontrager strips and also with tape. Some tires (notably TNT versions of Geax) are impossible to mount, regardless of one's technique or experience. Others mount w/ some difficulty (Michelin). And in my experience none of them have aired up particularly easy.

Do the hookless profiles represent an improvement in this regard? Anyone mounted Geax TNT on either hookless model?


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

InertiaMan said:


> Can anyone compare/contrast their tire mounting experiences on the various LB rim profiles? I'm specifically interested in differences among the three most common 29er versions:
> 35mm hookless rim
> 27mm hookless rim
> 30mm "wider" hooked rim
> ...


I just got a new LB wheelset today with 30/35 hookless rims. They were very easy in every way with Maxxis Ikon 2.35's. I used cheap tape and Stans Valves. They blew up fast and easy but I had a 105 psi 3 gal compressor and it makes a big difference.

Before these wheels I used Giant P-XC2 wheels with the same tires. I couldn't get them to seal with tape and any valve. I finally gave up and tried the split tube technique which was real easy. Later I heard that those Giant rims are easy with Trek Bontrager strips and valves.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

Info on tracking shipments from LB into the USA. LB ships from China via EMS. Once it gets through USA customs, USPS gets it and, in my case, deliver the next day. EMS's tracking systems stops showing progress once the package goes to customs. However, you can enter the same tracking number in the USPS tracking system and it will track your package through delivery. 

Lastly, my USPS mailman always deliver my mail around 4pm but he delivered the wheels at about 10am. I think he likes to get the bigger packages out of his truck and out of his way early. Since you have to sign for these packages, you might want to be around in the morning to do that.


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

Received my LB hookless 30 mm ID weelset last week.
Used Stans Yellow tape 21 mm(leftover from a previous wheelset) and American classic valves
I managed to put a Schwalbe Rocket Ron 2.25 on the rim with my bare hands and it was easy to inflate with a floorpump without removing the valve core and without milk.
I still have to put in some Stan's however, the next day I have a flat tire.
I am waiting for a Racing Ralf 2.25 and a Nobby Nick 2.35 but wich hopefully will mount as easily.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

I've yet to report on the performance of my new 30mm ID wheelset from LB. The performance exceeds my expectations. In fact, I'd say the performance has gone from adequate to perfect. I couldn't imagine being able to notice better performance out of wheels. I was using 2.35 Maxxis Ikon tires on good but heavy 19mm ID rims and they always felt soft when inflated to the low 20's psi. If I inflated more they were bouncy. With the new wider rims I inflate to 17 front and 19 rear and the performance is rock solid in corners. The traction is better and the ride cushion is about the same. 

I was worried that the wider rims might be more vulnerable to rock damage but the tires are still much wider than the rims. The max width of the tires is 61mm and the rims are 35mm wide. 

Climbing up steeper hills I feel a little more resistance. At first I thought it was because of less flex in the wheels but now I believe it is from better traction. When my tires would slip a little it kinda feels like a lower gear. Now that they are slipping less it feels like my lowest gear is higher. I didn't notice them slipping before but I am getting better Strava scores than before. 

Downhill I feel a big improvement. It feels like I have much more precise control and it is easier to make sharper turns with these wheels. 

I haven't noticed any flattening of the profile but my Maxxis Ikon tires have a very round profile. Also, the widest point has gone from 57mm to only 61mm in spite of the increase in ID of 11mm which is more than 50% (19mm to 30mm). 

I've only been mt biking a couple of years so, although I try to be accurate and helpful, take anything I say with a grain of salt.


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## mathismagic (Aug 10, 2013)

I was thinking of getting the light-bicycle 650b rims and building a light wheelset around them.
But then i found a rather good deal for a wheelset with Duke rims. The price would be about the same and the duke rims are somewhat lighter. Duke seems to be some small french company, and there has been some good results in competitions with their rims.

Anyone has any experience with said rims? They are tempting to get, but im kind of concerned about the durability, as i would use them very regularly for training and xc racing.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

SDMTB'er said:


> Just got my second set. First set for trail (AM version of hookless 29, 32 spokes, DTSWISS 350 hubs). Second set for XC (lighter version of hookless, 28 spokes, DTSWISS 240 hubs).
> 
> First wheelset has been nothing short of spectacular. Both wheelsets built up without issue.
> 
> ...


Hey what did your first set weigh; I assume you used the 35mm wide rims?


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Hey folks, I've used the Chinese carbon rims in 27.5 and Derby's wide rims in 29, and have a set of 27/22mm LBs on order for a lighter, stiffer set on my LES. I'm thinking of order the 30/24mm from the link above to replace the Derby's, trying to shave .30-.50 lbs, but I can't decide on the hubs. I think the Project 123 or I9 are the two I'm trying to choose between. Bling is not a factor. I can't figure out what the difference is though, same price and internals, but the 123 has a 3 year warranty. 

Anybody got anything to convince me to go with one or the other?


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

MTB Pilot said:


> Hey what did your first set weigh; I assume you used the 35mm wide rims?


About 390 grams for each rim. Didn't order the 35mm wide ones. Just these:

http://www.light-bicycle.com/bead-h...ike-rim-tubeless-compatible.html#.U7t4bNq9KSM


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## GoldenDragoon (Apr 21, 2013)

Those are the 27mm rims. Most guys here seem interested in the 35mm rims.

Just thought I would mention.... Broke a spoke nipple over the weekend racing. Got a replacement on the way home and pulled everything apart to sort it out. While I had it apart I checked out all the nipples for corrosion. All looked good including the broken one. My wheelset is almost 6 months old. So even if corrosion shows up after a year, you could just swap out all the nipples for new ones.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

MTB Pilot,

Go with the new Pro 321 hubs, they do share the same 120 points of engagement drive system, but the Project 321 use angular bearings and have adjustable preload with better end caps. Better anodizing also, and better Warr. They are both great companies, but I think Project 321 rear hub is now better, and about the same weight.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

dgw7000 said:


> MTB Pilot,
> 
> Go with the new Pro 321 hubs, they do share the same 120 points of engagement drive system, but the Project 321 use angular bearings and have adjustable preload with better end caps. Better anodizing also, and better Warr. They are both great companies, but I think Project 321 rear hub is now better, and about the same weight.


Cool, thanks! I was kind of leaning that way, and will probably be the end result.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Also I like the Sapim laser spokes or CX Rays if you have the money, 2 cross for 29er carbon rims with alloy nips. Just my opinion!! Makes for a killer light weight/durable wheel combo.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

rusto said:


> Has anyone ordered from carbonbicycle.cc? Seems like the same stuff/website but a bit cheaper. Any feedback would be great.


I put in my order. 2/353.90
Leadtime 10 days.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

dgw7000 said:


> Also I like the Sapim laser spokes or CX Rays if you have the money, 2 cross for 29er carbon rims with alloy nips. Just my opinion!! Makes for a killer light weight/durable wheel combo.


SWEET! I'll look into them. The wheel set I'm trying to replace, I built with Derby wide rims(455g) DT Swiss 350 hubs, DT Swiss Comp DB Spokes and alloy nips. They weigh 1910g with valves and tape, which isn't bad for a wheel that could be used in a DH race, but for my everyday chunk, I want something still quite durable and lighter.

THANKS!!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Yea, that's not bad!! My 30mm outside width, hookless 29er 32 hole LB wheels with Hadley hubs and Sapim Laser spokes and alloy nips, tape and valves came to 1798g. Your Dt Swiss 350 hubs are lighter than Hadley. The 240 DT Swiss are way better than the 350 and are made in China that's why the 350 are so inexpensive. How are the bearings holding up? Getting ready to put them on my new Pivot Mach 429 carbon "green" the frame just came in!! Can't wait. The Derbies look like nice rims !!


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## Ray Knight (May 5, 2014)

The 29" carbon wheelsets i got from China are NICE!!


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## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

Has anyone had any experience with the iPlay rims, or is there a separate thread for these?


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

dgw7000 said:


> Yea, that's not bad!! My 30mm outside width, hookless 29er 32 hole LB wheels with Hadley hubs and Sapim Laser spokes and alloy nips, tape and valves came to 1798g. Your Dt Swiss 350 hubs are lighter than Hadley. The 240 DT Swiss are way better than the 350 and are made in China that's why the 350 are so inexpensive. How are the bearings holding up? Getting ready to put them on my new Pivot Mach 429 carbon "green" the frame just came in!! Can't wait. The Derbies look like nice rims !!


The Derby rims are great, but I want to use that set for more gravity, super chunk as they are quite beefy at 455 grams. The 350s are great hubs, just 30-60 grams heavier, due to the hub body that is maid in Taiwan, not China. I've never had problems with the bearings on all three sets of wheels that I run them on, but I live in the desert and don't wash my bike as much as most. I use a 36 or 54 tooth star ratchet in all my 350s just like the 240s, so not worth the money since they aren't rotational weight.

Welcome to the 429 team green club. Best bike I've every owned and makes up for the Kawasaki dirt bike I never got when I was a kid!


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## hatrickpatrick (Apr 16, 2012)

*My Light Bicycle Wheels*

Hi Folks, after about a year of reading and a lot of waffling I finally bought a set of pre-built wheels from LB: 
29er 30mm wide rim, 12k,Glossy, 32holes, Red Hope front standard QR/135mm QR 8/9/10s, black pillar spokes and black pillar nipples.
The cost was a bit more because I got the Hope Pro2 hubs @ $896 with everything.
I weighted them without skewers and cassette of course and they came out to be just about 1560g for the pair, so that seems pretty good to me. I've already had about two races and 5 rides on them and the verdict is that they are quite stiff compared to my older aluminum wheels. When I try to just crash into bigger rocks to go over them like I used to, it seems to rebound up more. I haven't weighed my bike yet, but I think I dropped maybe 1/2 a pound or so. I'll check. I'll also post some picks here - hope the info helps - sorry but I accidentally deleted the pic of the rear wheel weight. 
I also should note I did not go for the hookless bead just in case it turns out to be a bit of a fad.  I usually run 2.2's at about 20psi on the front and 23 on the back when I race and I'm about 168pounds on a 24 pound hard tail.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I made a mistake saying 1798g it's 1698g for my set with tape and valves. Hadley and Chris King need to get the weight down under 300g for the rear. My new favorite hub now is Project 321 hubs at 285g for the rear with 3 year warr. The Hopes are pretty light, when you think about it the value above, no wheel set at 900 bucks can be bought from any place that will outperform your set !!


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Iplay newest 27mm width hookless 29er rims

Weight: 360+/- 15g/piece

IP-HR927C 27mm width hookless carbon MTB 29er rims, carbon mtb 29er tubeless rims -Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

Iplay newest high end DSS series wheels (32/32H), we can use DT swiss 240S hubs to assemble any wheels you want.

32/32H is the only option for the holes now

2014 high-end DSS IP-HR930C carbon 29er hookless wheels with DT Swiss 240S hubs for XC/AM use-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Here are some pictures for reference:




















Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## GoldenDragoon (Apr 21, 2013)

Same specs and weight as LB rims.... Hmmmmmmm......


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## maamu (Sep 8, 2010)

I plan to buy LB RM29C06 or RM29C02 Hookless rims. 
Has anyone Niner Air 9 Carbon frame owner tried is there enough space for wider RM29C02 rim and 2.25/2.4 tires?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have the original 29er carbon hooked rims with Racing Ralph 2.35's with no issues and some space on my Air9Carbon so I am confident you will be fine.


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## finbike (Apr 3, 2011)

PeterQ520 said:


> Iplay newest high end DSS series wheels (32/32H), we can use DT swiss 240S hubs to assemble any wheels you want.
> 
> 32/32H is the only option for the holes now
> 
> ...


Has anyone ordered these allready? I'm planning to order those because you get them with DT240 hubs.


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## maamu (Sep 8, 2010)

yourdaguy said:


> I have the original 29er carbon hooked rims with Racing Ralph 2.35's with no issues and some space on my Air9Carbon so I am confident you will be fine.


Thank you yourdaguy!


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## maamu (Sep 8, 2010)

I am a "angry"singlespeeder and I need more hill grip. 
I was thinking to do about 1400g wheelset. So what you think, is it possible to make it to RM29C02/RM29C07 rims or is it better to settle for narrower RM29C06 rims?


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## GoldenDragoon (Apr 21, 2013)

My daily rims are 1402g using the 27mm hookless, 1420 spokes (32 hole) and AM 130 and 225 hubs. Rim weight was below spec at 357g and 358g. You would need seriously light hubs and/or low spoke count to get near that weight with heavier rims.


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## dpom (Nov 1, 2011)

How much is this wheelset? The profile looks suspect, the rim is only 4mm wide at the rim edge, the Enve are 7-9 mm of carbon, and Light-Bicycle is 5-7mm. 4mm may not be enough material for structure? Anyone care to comment?



finbike said:


> Has anyone ordered these allready? I'm planning to order those because you get them with DT240 hubs.


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## finbike (Apr 3, 2011)

Wheelset is 860. I was wondering the same thing with that wall thickness?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

It does not appear to have a bead hook or a high spot on the bead seat to lock the bead to the rim. I would say that it would be easy to push the tire off toward the inside whenever you hit a rock or root. I would worry about that much more than if the rim would be durable.


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## finbike (Apr 3, 2011)

Bead hookless rims are tested and used commonly. Roval has same structure. I´m just wondering that wall thickness outside Xc-riding.


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## dpom (Nov 1, 2011)

Enve also are now completely hookless, with 5 year warranties. However, they are 9mm thick wall thickness. My concern is the 1 yr warranty with 4mm thickness. For $860 shipped, it is about $120 more than Light-Bicycle with Novatecs, so I assume that is a good deal to get two DT240s for that price?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I am aware of hook less, but they have a high Ridge on the seat to help hold the tire on.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

dpom said:


> View attachment 908049
> 
> 
> How much is this wheelset? The profile looks suspect, the rim is only 4mm wide at the rim edge, the Enve are 7-9 mm of carbon, and Light-Bicycle is 5-7mm. 4mm may not be enough material for structure? Anyone care to comment?


2mm.

Enve m70s are 3.5mm. M60s are 3mm.


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## cage (Jan 20, 2013)

92gli said:


> 2mm.
> 
> Enve m70s are 3.5mm. M60s are 3mm.


You beat me to it. :thumbsup:


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## finbike (Apr 3, 2011)

I went to LB hookless 30 mm rim afterall. Now I need to find DT 240 or 350 hubs as cheap as possible


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## campergf23 (Aug 4, 2013)

finbike said:


> I went to LB hookless 30 mm rim afterall. Now I need to find DT 240 or 350 hubs as cheap as possible


Looking to do the same build, but I can't seem to find a good deal on the 240. Post back if you find anything.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JTrue (Mar 23, 2007)

Sanity check please on spoke length. Used dtswiss calc. Building the 35mm lb rims with 350 hubs 15mm t/a 6 bolt and 12/142 6 bolt rear. Measured ERD at 593. 32 x 3 pattern. Calc came up with 287mm lengths with 12mm nipples for the rear. First wheel build, but I've read a bit, but maybe I'm lacing them up wrong? Laced up the drive side with no problem, go to flip it over and can lace a couple spokes, but then have issues after that, can't even thread the spokes into the nipple.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

JTrue said:


> Laced up the drive side with no problem, go to flip it over and can lace a couple spokes, but then have issues after that, can't even thread the spokes into the nipple.


What sort of problems are you having? Spoke length issues shouldn't manifest themselves until you're bringing the wheel up to tension. During initial lacing, you're only threading nipples part way, so short (or long) spokes don't cause an issue.


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## JTrue (Mar 23, 2007)

I think I was misunderstanding the lacing pattern and had the non-drive side spokes in the wrong holes. Got it dialed now after playing around for a sec. What sort of tension do I want to bring these up to? I have a cheap park tension meter. Have them between 15-18 right now.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

15-18 is probably good. Depends on the spoke thickness. Your original problem, you were probably one hole off. I know because I have made that same mistake.


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## $trafer (Dec 15, 2013)

JTrue said:


> What sort of tension do I want to bring these up to? I have a cheap park tension meter. Have them between 15-18 right now.


 There is such table in box with parktool TM-1. Needed tension in units on TM-1 scale depends of spoke type (round, blade), material and thickness (and width for blade).
For example, for steel round 1.5 spoke 18 units match 119 Kgf (good enough), but for steel round 2.0 spoke same 18 units match just 58 Kgf (it's pretty weak tension, for «strong» side especially).


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## JTrue (Mar 23, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> 15-18 is probably good. Depends on the spoke thickness. Your original problem, you were probably one hole off. I know because I have made that same mistake.


Yep, believe that's what happened. Built with DT Swiss Comps.


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## clarkrw3 (Feb 21, 2011)

Anyone get a DT 240 SS hub from them in a wheel build?


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## mattedhead (Jan 24, 2012)

Received LB 30mm/24mm hookless yesterday, weights were 389 and 390. Building up with Project 321 hubs / Sapim Lasers.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Man yours came in light, mine was 401 and 406. That's going to be a great build!!


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## mattedhead (Jan 24, 2012)

dgw7000 said:


> Man yours came in light, mine was 401 and 406. That's going to be a great build!!


Thanks! I'll post pics and full build weights next week.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

mattedhead said:


> Received LB 30mm/24mm hookless yesterday, weights were 389 and 390. Building up with Project 321 hubs / Sapim Lasers.


Did you measure ERD?

LB says 600mm. But the older hooked version of 30mm outside width rims, which have an identical cross section other than the bead, are listed at 603mm. Maybe they are now spec'ing the actual inner bed dimension, but in the past they were adding 3mm for the nipple flange thickness?

I have a set of hubs/spokes perfectly suited to 603mm ERD, hence my interest.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

InertiaMan said:


> Did you measure ERD?
> 
> LB says 600mm. But the older hooked version of 30mm outside width rims, which have an identical cross section other than the bead, are listed at 603mm. Maybe they are now spec'ing the actual inner bed dimension, but in the past they were adding 3mm for the nipple flange thickness?
> 
> I have a set of hubs/spokes perfectly suited to 603mm ERD, hence my interest.


Astute (and important) observation.
Another case of mfrs not providing consistent, accurate data.


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## mattedhead (Jan 24, 2012)

meltingfeather said:


> Astute (and important) observation.
> Another case of mfrs not providing consistent, accurate data.


I measured the spoke bed to spoke bed distance as 599. Assuming 3mm for nipple flange the ERD is 602. Others have used 601 and had good results so I did my calcs on that prior to receiving the rims and ordered spokes for a 601 ERD. Hope I'm not SOL.

I measured across several points on each rim and they appear very consistent.

Again, this is the 30mm outer, hookless LB design.

Hope this helps.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Thanks for the measurements, mattedhead.

I am on live chat right now w/ LB. I asked them about the two hookless30/24 versus hooked 30/23 rim ERDs, and they told me they are both the same: 600mm. Then I pointed out that their webpage for the hooked ones says 603mm, and asked if the discrepancy was due to the older rim being originally measured nipple-to-nipple rather than rimwall-to-rimwall, and they said "I think so."

I guess the drawings + your measurements + their statements are enough data to have reasonable confidence that both these rims are identical with regard to ERD/spokes/builds.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mattedhead said:


> I measured the spoke bed to spoke bed distance as 599. Assuming 3mm for nipple flange the ERD is 602. Others have used 601 and had good results so I did my calcs on that prior to receiving the rims and ordered spokes for a 601 ERD. Hope I'm not SOL.
> 
> I measured across several points on each rim and they appear very consistent.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you'll be fine though your spokes may be a hair short.
I prefer to measure using spokes so assumptions are not involved.
Hey continues to baffle me how some rim manufacturers have little sensitivity to the importance of ERD.


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## mattedhead (Jan 24, 2012)

Spokes should be here today, so I will re-measure appropriately and post back. Thanks guys.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Anyone looking for great tires for the 30mm wide hookless rims. Bontrager XR3 29x2.30 Team Issue tires. While not super big volume they are light at 700grams, great grip in wet rocks and logs. 50 bucks my shop sells them for, they corner like crazy. They kinda remind me or Racing Ralph but better with stronger sidewalls. Try this tire!!


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## dan4jeepin (Apr 9, 2007)

I just ordered a set of 29er narrow version with Hope hubs from light bicycle. They said 15-20days lead time to build them. How long is shipping usually taking for most people? I got them hoping to have them for an event at the end of August but I'm starting to think I may have waited to long to order.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Shipping is very fast, 5 days !!


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

*What's the verdict on tape for 35mm and 30mm hookless rims?*

Did some searches and found a few comments but nothing definitive.

Are the 35mm folks having good luck with 12mm stans (or 3M 8898) tape down the center? Anyone cut down 2" tape to ~32mm for full coverage?

How about the 30mm (24mm inside) hookless folks, anyone using 12mm? Or is 24 or 25mm tape working well?

I prefer the tensilized polypropylene style tape (aka Stans) so please keep the efforts to convert me to Gorilla tape to a minimum.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

I use 29mm Superstar tape (same as Stan's) with success on my 35mm. www.superstarcomponents.com


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## geeride7 (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm using 12mm stans with no problem on the 35mm (30i) LB 29er rims. I don't know why full coverage would matter because the holes your covering are small. The tape doesn't know whether it's on a narrow rim all the way up to the edge or in the center part of a wider rim, so why add weight and give up a tape thickness of sidewall height at the bead?


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

Here is a reason to use wider tape. Air pressure will try to push the tape through the spoke holes. Wider tape insures that the tape won't get pulled loose as the tape bulges into the hole, especially if one day you decide to ride on asphalt and pump up to 50psi. Maybe Stans tape is so stiff that this isn't a concern. The Noki tape I used is so thin and light that going wide or adding layers is inconsequential.


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## geeride7 (Jul 9, 2006)

I can see for 50 psi that wider tape _might_ be a little better. But stans tape is pretty stiff and sticky, and the spare width of 12 mm is plenty. This is based on about 5 years experience with narrow tape on ztr rims. The tape deforms into the holes but doesn't pull loose at the sides.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

My reasoning behind the wider tape is to create a better seal against the bead.


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## abevern (Apr 21, 2009)

I used 24mm 8898 on my 35/30 hookless. Wide enough to easily cover the holes. Narrow enough to be easy to centre. No problems so far. 
Tyres seat super easily with floor pump. Fwiw.


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## GoldenDragoon (Apr 21, 2013)

hssp said:


> My reasoning behind the wider tape is to create a better seal against the bead.


+1. I used 3 layers of wide tape to make setting up tubless easy. Not so nessasary now with a good floor pump but you can bead my tires with a hand pump if you wanted to (what a workout!).


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

How quickly are people getting their LB orders? I'm pulling the trigger shortly after weighing a bunch of options, but of course not pumped about waiting 4+ weeks to get them.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

KGAmoto said:


> How quickly are people getting their LB orders? I'm pulling the trigger shortly after weighing a bunch of options, but of course not pumped about waiting 4+ weeks to get them.


Did they have your rims in stock? If not then yes there will be some waiting involved as to their next production of the type you ordered.


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

I have no idea - good question; just assumed they always kept stock full and the shipping caused the wait. Thanks for pointing that out - I'll contact them and see.


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

KGAmoto said:


> How quickly are people getting their LB orders? I'm pulling the trigger shortly after weighing a bunch of options, but of course not pumped about waiting 4+ weeks to get them.


I put in my order and was told:
"The lead time is around 15 business days and it usually takes 4~7 days for delivery."
So figure three weeks if I'm lucky.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Took 4 weeks from order to delivery. That seems pretty reasonable for a custom built product getting shipped from China.


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## mdc (Apr 26, 2006)

I put an order in the last week of June (35mm hookless, Novatec hubs, blue nipples)- and they took about 3 weeks to arrive.

All I can say about my experience with LB, is that they provided great customer service, and the finished product is pretty damn nice. No regrets whatsoever....


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

Is anyone using the stans rubber rim straps, or should I stick to the yellow tape?


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## mdc (Apr 26, 2006)

I used Guerilla tape cut wide enough to cover the spoke holes ( cheap and bombproof), but yellow tape would work fine as well. The tires inflated easy and the bead snapped into place no problem..


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## s0ul_chicken (Aug 1, 2013)

Can someone give me the link to LB?


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

s0ul_chicken said:


> Can someone give me the link to LB?


light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike Light-Bicycle


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## s0ul_chicken (Aug 1, 2013)

Thank you hillharman!


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

Carloswithac said:


> Is anyone using the stans rubber rim straps, or should I stick to the yellow tape?


Not a definitive answer, but I tried the Stan's rubber strips. Was trying to setup a set of Schwalbe Sammy Slicks (700x35c) tubeless on Enve Twenty9 XC wheels but despite use of an air compressor, was unable to get a sufficient bead seat and the tires would leak down very quickly. ALternatley, 3 layers of the Orange Seal tubeless tape and some Cafe Latex and the combination has been pretty solid.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Stans tape one layer on my 30mm external wide 29er rims works perfect. I don't know why anyone would use anything else. It's light and last very long, it's perfect for all rims!!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dgw7000 said:


> I don't know why anyone would use anything else.


I use 3M 8898 tensilized polypropylene tape because it is the same tape at a fraction of the cost. :thumbsup:


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## JTrue (Mar 23, 2007)

Finished building up my set of 35/30 rims. DT Swiss Comp Spokes, Alu nips, 350 hubs, 15mm 6 bolt and 12x142 6 bolt. Setup with one wrap of 24mm Stans tape, was able to seat easily with a floor pump. Weighed in at 1780grams with tape and valves.

First ride on them on my Santa Cruz TBLTc and noticed a couple things vs my Stans Arch EXs. They feel like they spin up a little faster on the uphill since they are a tad lighter. Most noticeable thing is how stiff they are, holy ****. They like to track straight over whatever you point them towards. Weigh in at 180, running 20 psi front 22 rear, grip was better with the wider footprint. Felt like I might need to decrease the pressure in my fork by a bit to smoothen things out up front since they are so stiff. Overall pretty impressed.


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## ms6073 (Aug 7, 2012)

meltingfeather said:


> I use 3M 8898 tensilized polypropylene tape because it is the same tape at a fraction of the cost. :thumbsup:


Nice. So something like Scotch Film Strapping Tape 8896 Blue, 24 mm x 55 m


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ms6073 said:


> Nice. So something like Scotch Film Strapping Tape 8896 Blue, 24 mm x 55 m


The description and picture look right, but the 8896 doesn't match. According to Scotch's website 8896 is a different tape that may or may not work well.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

I've used the 8898 3M tape on 27mm hookless without issue. It's not the same thing as Stan's tape, though. It's noticeably thinner, easier to stretch, and it can turn into a stringy mess when removing. For the price difference it's probably worth it, but I've seen a lot of posts indicating it's the same as Stan's, and that's not been my experience.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


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## agentsmith (Jan 27, 2010)

GoldenDragoon said:


> Same specs and weight as LB rims.... Hmmmmmmm......


Are Iplay and LB the same rims?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Possibly a dumb question, but I haven't paid as much attention to the carbon rim offerings since I bought some LB hoops.....is there a "lower" cost 40mm 29er carbon rim available from LB or similar company?

I'm thinking of an upgrade for my Krampus and want something wider than 35mm for my 3" tires.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

agentsmith said:


> Are Iplay and LB the same rims?


LB tells you no. Sure seems like there is 1-2 plants making all of these and everyone (iplay, LB, Nextie... etc) are all just selling them.

Hell, the Roval Control Carbon 29 and Roval Fattie's sure look like all of the others!


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

hokiebrett said:


> Hell, the Roval Control Carbon 29 and Roval Fattie's sure look like all of the others!


When I took my LB bead less hook less 27 mm rims to be built at the LBS.. 
I put them next to the Roval's me or the builder couldn't tell the difference.


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## Andy17 (Sep 18, 2011)

JTrue said:


> Finished building up my set of 35/30 rims. DT Swiss Comp Spokes, Alu nips, 350 hubs, 15mm 6 bolt and 12x142 6 bolt. Setup with one wrap of 24mm Stans tape, was able to seat easily with a floor pump. Weighed in at 1780grams with tape and valves.
> 
> First ride on them on my Santa Cruz TBLTc and noticed a couple things vs my Stans Arch EXs. They feel like they spin up a little faster on the uphill since they are a tad lighter. Most noticeable thing is how stiff they are, holy ****. They like to track straight over whatever you point them towards. Weigh in at 180, running 20 psi front 22 rear, grip was better with the wider footprint. Felt like I might need to decrease the pressure in my fork by a bit to smoothen things out up front since they are so stiff. Overall pretty impressed.


I have had the same experience! And cornering the difference is really noticeable. I am really enjoying my LB rims.. I built them up with I9 hubs dt spokes and brass nipples. I am on a TBLTc also!


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## JTrue (Mar 23, 2007)

Andy17 said:


> I have had the same experience! And cornering the difference is really noticeable. I am really enjoying my LB rims.. I built them up with I9 hubs dt spokes and brass nipples. I am on a TBLTc also!


Nice, yeah haven't gotten to rail any berms yet, but they feel like I'll be able to ride through with more speed and confidence. It's pretty loose right now in Utah... Btw, running 2.4 Ardent Exo front, 2.2 Ikon Exo TR rear.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

No pics yet, as it's not letting me upload from my phone...

Decided to learn something tonight... How to lace wheels, that is.

Got my 12x142 BHS MTB270 and American Classic 15thru laced up to my Light Bicycle hookless 27mm XC 29er wheels. Went with the standard (read: boring) 32h/3x lacing to keep it simple and classy. Silver spokes and silver brass nipples for a little shine, with matte/UD rims.

669g front, 830g rear... Not bad for a 22mm (internal rim width) wheelset! That's 3mm wider and 300g/0.66lb lighter than my existing "lightweight" Easton EA70XCT wheelset!!

The BHS (Bitex) MTB270 hub sounds wicked! Deeper in tone than a Chris King. It literally sounds angry. No Hope clack... Just a deep, mechanical, pissed off buzzzzz.

Can't ride em yet (still gotta build a DIY wheel truing stand), but not bad for about 3 beers worth of work (with plenty of hiccups... Don't drop a nipple in a rim. Let alone three of them).

I've got a set of BHS MTB 180/270 hubs that are awaiting LB hookless 35mm AM 650b rims. Apparently they're shipping this week!


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Anybody tried Velocity VeloPlugs on LB hookless wheels? They look similar to the Specialized spoke plugs that are coming on the Spesh carbon Fatties. Another (cheap) way to save 35-40g of rotating wheel weight (plugs are lighter than tubeless tape). And you can replace a spoke by pulling one plug, instead of the entire strip of rim tape.

Velocity Rim Plugs > Components > Tires and Tubes > Rim Strips | Jenson USA

Veloplugs

Velocity Wheels


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

hokiebrett said:


> Anybody tried Velocity VeloPlugs on LB hookless wheels? They look similar to the Specialized spoke plugs that are coming on the Spesh carbon Fatties. Another (cheap) way to save 35-40g of rotating wheel weight (plugs are lighter than tubeless tape). And you can replace a spoke by pulling one plug, instead of the entire strip of rim tape.
> 
> Velocity Rim Plugs > Components > Tires and Tubes > Rim Strips | Jenson USA
> 
> ...


The Velocity website says "~15g over cloth tape on a 700c wheel." They're talking about Velox, which is heavy compared to tubeless tape, which is 5-10g per wheel.
I'd be surprised if there were any weight savings at all. I'd also be very surprised if they were air tight.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

hokiebrett said:


> Anybody tried Velocity VeloPlugs on LB hookless wheels? They look similar to the Specialized spoke plugs that are coming on the Spesh carbon Fatties. Another (cheap) way to save 35-40g of rotating wheel weight (plugs are lighter than tubeless tape). And you can replace a spoke by pulling one plug, instead of the entire strip of rim tape.
> 
> Velocity Rim Plugs > Components > Tires and Tubes > Rim Strips | Jenson USA
> 
> ...


Velo plugs don't seal the spoke hole for a tubeless setup. They work with tubes to replace the rim tape you previously used to protect the tube from damage from the spoke hole and spoke.

In a tubeless setup they serve no purpose and you are going to need to seal the rim with Stan's tape or something else.

I've used them in the past on tubed wheels and they work fine. On the whole I generally wouldn't bother with them as they don't offer anything revolutionary and I always have tape on hand so that's what I normally use.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

I was thinking something like what Specialized is using on their Fatties:



> Wheels will be shipped with traditional rim strips, but the carbon model will also include these Roval plugs. Lighter than a traditional tape setup, these Delrin plugs seal the spoke holes and can be run either with a tube or tubeless.


New Specialized Roval Traverse Fattie All Mountain Wheels Show Fat?s Where It?s At

















EDIT: OOooooooh, the Roval plugs are special. They have O-rings to seal:



> INSTALLING THE TUBELESS PLUGS
> 1. Inspect all plugs to ensure the *o-ring* goes around all four tabs.


https://service.specialized.com/collateral/ownersguide/new/assets/pdf/0000045737.pdf

Guess I'll have to convince a Big S dealer to sell me 128 Roval Tubeless plugs


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

hokiebrett said:


> I was thinking something like what Specialized is using on their Fatties:
> 
> "These new wheels are also compatible with our Roval tubeless plug system, an easy and super lightweight solution for tubeless setups."


The Velocity plugs don't seal and the Specialized ones would need to be the exact size of the spoke holes in a LB rim to work.

Personally the whole idea seems like a solution in search of a problem. 1 wrap of Stan's tape in a LB rim and you are done. Cheap/fast/light/readily available in any LBS there isn't much to complain about.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

vikb said:


> The Velocity plugs don't seal and the Specialized ones would need to be the exact size of the spoke holes in a LB rim to work.
> 
> Personally the whole idea seems like a solution in search of a problem. 1 wrap of Stan's tape in a LB rim and you are done. Cheap/fast/light/readily available in any LBS there isn't much to complain about.


One Specialized LBS near me has built up many sets of LB hookless rims. They've also sold the Roval Control Carbon and Carbon SL wheelsets. They believe they are the same rim, as they cannot tell a difference between the LB and the Roval rim when held next to each other.

I've got tubeless tape, but these sound like a cool option.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

If I broke a spoke in tubeless wheel, I would cut a hole in the tape, replace the spoke and put another short, 10", section of tape over the hole. First you would have to clean the area real well.

Those hole caps have too many points of possible failure. They might work fine but I would be more comfortable with tape. I like Tesa strapping tape because it is thin, light and it stretches.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

dugt said:


> If I broke a spoke in tubeless wheel, I would cut a hole in the tape, replace the spoke and put another short, 10", section of tape over the hole. First you would have to clean the area real well.


Or you can carefully unthread the spoke from the nipple, orient the wheel to keep the nipple protruding (painters tape is handy to temporarily hold the nipple), lace in the new spoke, and thread it to the original nipple. No need to even remove the tire, let alone the tape.

If you've broken a nipple, well, that's another story.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

hokiebrett said:


> Anybody tried Velocity VeloPlugs on LB hookless wheels?


Others have pointed out several reasons this isn't a good idea, but its also worth noting that Velocity themselves specifically highlight that you should NOT use the Veloplugs on their tubeless ready rims (such as the A23) because they sit too high in the rim bed, which consumes a precious millimeter or so of bead diameter when mounting tires, making it difficult/impossible to get the tire on the rim.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Ok ok ok... Sorry I asked!

lol


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

hokiebrett said:


> Ok ok ok... Sorry I asked!
> 
> lol


You should be happy you asked. We all saved you from a bad experiment!:thumbsup:


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Just built up some 35mm wide wheels. Rims were from carbonbicycle. Using Hope 2 Evo hubs and sipam race spokes and brass nipples. Rear came out around 944 grams and front 847 grams. 1791 grams not to bad i guess. Wheels are real nice and stiff. Pics up soon.


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## fisherman1118 (Mar 22, 2010)

McGG said:


> I think it was damaged after manufacturing. The carbonbicycle.cc guys seem to be responsive about replacing it so far. If everything isn't to my satisfaction, then I will certainly report back here.


I'm considering a 2 rim (35mm 29") purchase soon, can you share how this was resolved with carbonbicycle.cc?

Thanks


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## Ramborage (May 7, 2013)

Got my set from Light Bicycle last weekend and have been riding everyday since. Got the 30mm hookless with 32/32 QR Hope hubs and have been amazed!!! Weight came in just a pinch under 1600grams. Only problem I've had was seating the Racing Ralph in the rear. My air compressor wasn't doing it. Had to finess the bead out by hand and keep trying to pump air into it until it would hold. Took me about an hour. Front tire is Rocket Ron and had no problems even with a floor pump. Was odd though as I'm used to hearing the popping sound but with the hookless there's no sound. LOL


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## Ramborage (May 7, 2013)

BTW I really wish I got the 35's now. But 30 is still a nice improvement over what I had. Can tell the tires look fatter...


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

Ramborage said:


> BTW I really wish I got the 35's now. But 30 is still a nice improvement over what I had. Can tell the tires look fatter...


Pictures!? I am not the most patient person. kartrin just told me my rims are currently being manufactured. I can't wait!


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I've had a bit of a failure on my "wider" 29er rims. I've been using them since late December. I did a long ride in the mountains with no issues, then a couple days later I took the bike out for a ride again and noticed this....

The evidence suggests rock impact but I don't recall any significant thumps on my previous ride. I obviously finished out the ride without noticing anything. The tire held air and the wheel is still in true. I was running about 28psi in moderately rocky terrain on a Kona Process 111. I weigh about 190lbs and am a fairly aggressive rider. Don't really blame the rim but this is the first time I've made any rim unusable. 

I've sent an email to LB to see if they would help me out a bit with a replacement. If they don't, I think I may order for carbonbicycle.cc
As far as I can tell, it's the same product for $75less.

Anyone have any similar experiences they want to share?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Does not look like failure to me. Looks like a rock strike.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

rusty904 said:


> I've had a bit of a failure on my "wider" 29er rims. I've been using them since late December. I did a long ride in the mountains with no issues, then a couple days later I took the bike out for a ride again and noticed this....
> 
> The evidence suggests rock impact but I don't recall any significant thumps on my previous ride. I obviously finished out the ride without noticing anything. The tire held air and the wheel is still in true. I was running about 28psi in moderately rocky terrain on a Kona Process 111. I weigh about 190lbs and am a fairly aggressive rider. Don't really blame the rim but this is the first time I've made any rim unusable.
> 
> ...


It is hard to tell the extent of the damage because the photo of the damaged area is not in focus. The opposite side of the rim got the best focus. It would also be interesting to see a photo of the inside of the rim at the damaged area.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Hard to tell, but that bubbling and the wrinkling looks as though there might be some material failure. I had one that did that when the tire was compressed by a rock and the side of the rim gave out. The top of the bead wall was compressed in and damaged, but no sign of rock damage or dust on it. Mine also held 30+ PSI while I rode and until I took the tire off. 

Must of been one hell of an impact...


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

MTB Pilot said:


> Hard to tell, but that bubbling and the wrinkling looks as though there might be some material failure. I had one that did that when the tire was compressed by a rock and the side of the rim gave out. The top of the bead wall was compressed in and damaged, but no sign of rock damage or dust on it. Mine also held 30+ PSI while I rode and until I took the tire off.
> 
> Must of been one hell of an impact...


Yeah, I need a camera, I could not get my phone to focus on the rim. This is the best I could do but still crappy. There is some de-lam on the wall of the rim and a little more a few inches down from the impact.

That's kind of what's a bit perplexing. When I feel a nasty "hit" I always stop to check the wheel out. I have no such memory from the ride where the damage occured. The trail was rocky but not ridiculously so. I have no doubt a rock hit was involved but I don't think it was that severe. I rode out never knowing the damage was there.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Well it's been a couple days after contacting them with no response. Wasn't expecting much obviously but I was hoping they'd at least get in touch with me. Oh well, just a casualty of MTB'ing. The performance and price are worth the risk.

I'm going to upgrade my rims to the 35mm hookless variety. A set from light-bicycle is $424.35 shipped and has the option of "all mountain" or "downhill" models with the downhill model increasing the total to $440.91.

Carbonbicycle.cc seems to have a very similar (the same?) rims for $353.90 shipped. Anyone have a good reason why I shouldn't go with the cheaper option?


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

rusty904 said:


> Well it's been a couple days after contacting them with no response. Wasn't expecting much obviously but I was hoping they'd at least get in touch with me. Oh well, just a casualty of MTB'ing. The performance and price are worth the risk.
> 
> I'm going to upgrade my rims to the 35mm hookless variety. A set from light-bicycle is $424.35 shipped and has the option of "all mountain" or "downhill" models with the downhill model increasing the total to $440.91.
> 
> Carbonbicycle.cc seems to have a very similar (the same?) rims for $353.90 shipped. Anyone have a good reason why I shouldn't go with the cheaper option?


You might want to also check out Nextie rims.
Nextie Bike | Carbon Bicycle Devotion | Made in China

I have no relation to them other than being a customer. I recently had a rim develop holes around the a nipple hole. They replaced the rim, I only had to pay shipping.

There is a lot of talk about them in the fat bike forum as they make a "wild Dragon" fat bike carbon rim.

Just something to look at.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Ottoreni said:


> You might want to also check out Nextie rims.
> Nextie Bike | Carbon Bicycle Devotion | Made in China
> 
> I have no relation to them other than being a customer. I recently had a rim develop holes around the a nipple hole. They replaced the rim, I only had to pay shipping.
> ...


Thanks for the tip, never heard of that one. They seem to fall between light-bicycle and carbonbicycle price wise. Also they claim a 2 year warranty. About 40g heavier weight for their "am" rims. Might not be a bad thing for me.

Did you get the 35mm rims? How was the delivery time?


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

rusty904 said:


> Thanks for the tip, never heard of that one. They seem to fall between light-bicycle and carbonbicycle price wise. Also they claim a 2 year warranty. About 40g heavier weight for their "am" rims. Might not be a bad thing for me.
> 
> Did you get the 35mm rims? How was the delivery time?


I have the original "wide rims", I think those are 30mm? Original rims were ordered back in early fall of 2013. The only reason I got the Nextie rims over the LB rims back then was because Nextie was a new company and was offering a 10 or 15% coupon back then. The rims arrived within 3 weeks.

The warranty rim should arrive in just under 3 weeks.

When I do buy my next set of rims, I plan to buy from them again. I will go with the wider and hookless rims when that time comes since I have had an overall good experience with them.

I can give you the guy's name I have been dealing with. He gets back to me within 24 hours.


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## edgalang (Sep 20, 2013)

Hi guys,

What has been the smallest tire anyone has installed on the 35mm wheels? Would a 2.0 tire work ok?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

rusty904 said:


> I think I may order for carbonbicycle.cc
> As far as I can tell, it's the same product for $75less.
> Anyone have any similar experiences they want to share?


I received two rims from them. Quality seems fine. Build was easy. I'd save the money.


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

XMiplay have similar rims to sell too, I bought my wheelset from them, no issues sa far, and many guys who order frames from them order wheels from them as well.

29er rim,Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Their price is cheaper than Light-Bicycle.

Maybe LB think they are unique here and have most fans for their rims so they sell them at higher price.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

eb1888 said:


> I received two rims from them. Quality seems fine. Build was easy. I'd save the money.


Thanks for the feedback. Shipping time?


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I'm still waffling between choices for the 35mm hookless rims. I have it down to Nextie AM and Carbonbicycle. Light bicycle is out for me. 

The Nextie 35mm rims are 460g ea, and are $393 shipped for the set

Carbonbicycle.com's rims are 420g ea $353.90 shipped for the set

ERD is slightly less on the CB rims 589 vs. 594 for the nextie. Rider weight limit is higher for the Nextie 150kg vs. 120kg finally spoke tension is a little different. Higher for the carboncycle ones.

Obviously this is hyper analysis on my part but it's a bit of an investment. Neither of these places have much of track record but nextie looks a bit more professional. I guess the heavier rim might be the safer choice? I just wonder where that extra weight is applied. Thicker spoke bed? If anyone would like to weigh in I'd appreciate it. Got to pull the trigger sooner or later.


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## edgalang (Sep 20, 2013)

rusty904 said:


> I'm still waffling between choices for the 35mm hookless rims. I have it down to Nextie AM and Carbonbicycle. Light bicycle is out for me.
> 
> The Nextie 35mm rims are 460g ea, and are $393 shipped for the set
> 
> ...


I'm in the same boat except my 2 choices is LB vs iPlay. As long as you buy complete wheel sets, LB is still competitive (pricewise). I havent looked heavily into the 2 companies you listed, but if they offer full built wheel sets, that'll definitely throw a wrench in my decision making.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

rusty904 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Shipping time?


21 days to my door. One was 28 hole though.
Two to a box each in a simple foam sleeve.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

edgalang said:


> I'm in the same boat except my 2 choices is LB vs iPlay. As long as you buy complete wheel sets, LB is still competitive (pricewise). I havent looked heavily into the 2 companies you listed, but if they offer full built wheel sets, that'll definitely throw a wrench in my decision making.


Buy the rims and get them built by someone that does it right.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Agree 100% !!


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> Buy the rims and get them built by someone that does it right.


That's what I did the first time around and I'm pretty glad I did. I ended up with Pro II hubs and DT comp spokes built by my LBS. It was good to support them in all but the rims and it gave me a lot more peace of mind. The cost penalty wasn't too bad either. All in, the wheelset was just under $800.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

eb1888 said:


> 21 days to my door. One was 28 hole though.
> Two to a box each in a simple foam sleeve.


Wait, did they send you the wrong rim? Was it supposed to be a 28h?


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## Kegelhoff (Sep 11, 2013)

edgalang said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> What has been the smallest tire anyone has installed on the 35mm wheels? Would a 2.0 tire work ok?


I have been running Captain 2.0" front and rear for 6 weeks now. Work Great!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

rusty904 said:


> Wait, did they send you the wrong rim? Was it supposed to be a 28h?


I have a Dt 240 28 hole front hub and a 32 rear.

I build with nipple washers and brass nipples.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

*Is this the proverbial corrosion of which we speak?*

One year old, 30/23mm LB "wider" 29ers with DT alloy nipples using Bontrager rim strips.

Ridden in mixed conditions (OR, WA, UT, AZ).


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

InertiaMan said:


> One year old, 30/23mm LB "wider" 29ers with DT alloy nipples using Bontrager rim strips.
> 
> Ridden in mixed conditions (OR, WA, UT, AZ).


Should also have mentioned that I've not suffered any broken nipples or other ill effects. I was just swapping tires and thought I'd do a quick inspection.

I'm not sure whether I should change them out to brass in anticipation of potential issues down the road, or just ride them into the sunset in the hope that the nipples will never fail despite the corrosion (and in the process, provide Meltingfeather with a data point for the does-corrosion-matter debate).


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I am at a party, but will send pictures of my latest failure and I just ordered 200 brass nipples.


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## Ramborage (May 7, 2013)

So far been on 12 rides and haven't had a rim strike yet. Ran my Racing Ralph in front at 17 psi and Thunder Burt in rear at 20 psi with no problems. But boy did my bike feel fast. I can feel the increase power of the less weight in every pedal stroke now!!! It's insane!!!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/pko0wodyy77paig/AAB1z01-vdoHUMa7Xxhr-n8ta

This is from the rear wheel of the last set I built and by then, I was using never seize as a lubricant hoping it would cut down on any corrosion. Guess it didn't work since I broke a nipple last week and this was what I found. Rebuilt the wheel with brass nipples and ordered 200 brass nipples so my winter project is to rebuild the rest of my wheels. (I have 7 and have rebuilt 2 so far with brass) The good news is that these are the easiest rims I have ever built with and it won't take long to do them.


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

So excited! My wheelset got shipped today! Has anyone in the US had to pay taxes on the delivery? Here's hoping it takes less than a week to get here!

C


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## Ramborage (May 7, 2013)

Ramborage said:


> So far been on 12 rides and haven't had a rim strike yet. Ran my Racing Ralph in front at 17 psi and Thunder Burt in rear at 20 psi with no problems. But boy did my bike feel fast. I can feel the increase power of the less weight in every pedal stroke now!!! It's insane!!!


Scratch that. I burped the front tire yesterday going around a corner and coming down a steep hill. Hit a root and handlebars ripped out from me. Luckily I was riding the brakes since this was a very hard trail. I looked at the tire and there was dirt on the inside of the rim. I noticed the tire was almost flat. Left me stranded in the woods with mosquitos biting the hell out of me as my hand pump didn't work and the tube I was carrying had a hole in it. I had the worst luck. But learned my lesson and next time will be at a higher psi in the front.


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm completely happy with my CCC rims. I'm running a Minion DHF 2.5" up front and will be scratching my HR II 2.3 for a Minion DHF 2.3" out back. These rims really stiffened up the lateral stiffness and helps with cornering.


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## cage (Jan 20, 2013)

Ramborage said:


> Scratch that. I burped the front tire yesterday going around a corner and coming down a steep hill. Hit a root and handlebars ripped out from me. Luckily I was riding the brakes since this was a very hard trail. I looked at the tire and there was dirt on the inside of the rim. I noticed the tire was almost flat. Left me stranded in the woods with mosquitos biting the hell out of me as my hand pump didn't work and the tube I was carrying had a hole in it. I had the worst luck. But learned my lesson and next time will be at a higher psi in the front.


Front & back. Even if your a feather weight, you should be running closer to 28 on the rear.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I run 20 psi front and rear on my 30mm out side diameter hookless LB 29er rims Bontrager XR3 Team Issue 29x2.30. My bike Pivot 429C, my weight 175. Great tires by the way at 53 bucks each. These rims at 401g each can't be beat for the money, I have been beating the heck out of them for a few months now and still perfectly true. My Hadley hubs while a bit heavy are rock solid and so smooth also a great value, XD driver made from Ti.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I weigh about 175-180 geared up w/ camelbak and have the beadhook 30mm outside width rims. I have consistently run 21psi rear and 19psi in the front using 29x2.2 Ikons w/ no issues. I ride aggressive cross country and hit plenty of rocks and small (< 18") drops at high speeds w/ no issues. YMMV.


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## Chowder Head (Sep 26, 2010)

LB 35/30 hookless with Bontrager XR3 tubless, front burped at 19psi when I stuffed it hard into a burm, OTB. I weigh 175. I'm back at 21 front and 25 rear, so far so good. I was experimenting with the low psi with all the talk of the wider rims not burping as easily.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Yeah I managed to kill the exact same rim under normal conditions. I weigh a little more than you (190lbs geared up) but I was running between 25 and 28 PSI out back and a burlier tire, specialized purgatory control 2.3. The trail was rocky by NC standards but not exceptionally so, no big drops just some water bars. 

LB gave me a warranty claim form to fill out and told me they would get back to me. It took three days for her first response and it's been about a week since I submitted the form. Hoping they will help me out a little at least.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

I weigh 175 geared up and have been riding 35mm outer width rims with 2.35" Ikons front and back for a couple of months with about 17psi front and 19 rear. With more pressure the tires feel too bouncy. Where I ride I avoid big rocks and all drops but sometimes ride over chunky rocks that are about head size and I have not had any problems. I think my pressures are fairly accurate because all three of my gauges are within one or two psi of each other. My tires have fairly high volume and I can't imagine compressing one to the point of hurting a rim but I ride conservatively.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

PuddleDuck said:


> I'm interested in your experiences or thoughts on why rims from carboncycle.cc are cheaper than those from lightbicycle, though the rims look to be exactly the same?
> 
> Thanks :thumbsup:


Mark-up?


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

*Why are (the same) rims from carboncycle.cc cheaper than lightbicycle?*

I'm interested in your experiences or thoughts on why rims from carboncycle.cc are cheaper than those from lightbicycle, though the rims look to be exactly the same?

Thanks :thumbsup:


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

PuddleDuck said:


> I'm interested in your experiences or thoughts on why rims from carboncycle.cc are cheaper than those from lightbicycle, though the rims look to be exactly the same?
> 
> Thanks :thumbsup:


I heard somewhere in this forum that many retailers can buy the same rims from the manufacturer and the different retailers offer different price, terms, service....


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

dgw7000 said:


> Also I like the Sapim laser spokes or CX Rays if you have the money, 2 cross for 29er carbon rims with alloy nips. Just my opinion!! Makes for a killer light weight/durable wheel combo.


So I went with CX Rays and brass nipples on the LB 27/23mm rims and the existing DT swiss straight pull hubs form my Spline XR 1501 wheels. The hubs are basically 240s, but actually lighter. I couldn't do the 2x lace with the angle of the straight pull spoke holes, but came out great anyway.

1450g taped with valves. Nice strong wheels for my Pivot Les SS:thumbsup:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

MTB Pilot said:


> The hubs are basically 240s, but actually lighter.


What did the hubs weigh?
How are they "basically 240s"? They appear very different. 


MTB Pilot said:


> I couldn't do the 2x lace with the angle of the straight pull spoke holes, but came out great anyway.


Straight pull hubs are typically locked into the cross pattern they were designed for.
Why did you pull apart your high durability/performance light tubeless wheelset, out of curiosity?


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> What did the hubs weigh?
> How are they "basically 240s"? They appear very different.
> 
> Straight pull hubs are typically locked into the cross pattern they were designed for.
> Why did you pull apart your high durability/performance light tubeless wheelset, out of curiosity?


240 internals with a 2 piece hub body. Don't remember exact weights, but 10 grams lighter per hub from online figures.

The XR 1501 is a nice wheel set that came on my 429c, but I used them on my Les. With 2.2 tires in the rear, a rear yoke that can fit true 2.5 tires, I was getting tire rube on both sides after every ride. Wanted light stiffer carbon rims and stronger spokes, so why not use the existing high quality hub... Plus I got 3mm more internally to let the tire open up.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

gotta admit, the "basically 240s" threw me too. that hub shell is quite different to the straight pull 240s, both where the disc attaches and where the spokes do too.

also, what is "LB 27/23mm rims"? do you mean the first hookless rim light bicycle did, which is specced at 27mm/22mm external/internal width?

if so, you have a reasonably similar build to me - most similar one i've seen.

out of interest, what spoke lengths worked for you? i can't seem to find out whether those hubs you have are 28 or 32 hole. 

i managed to get pretty close with 298mm spokes all round, with 28 hole 240s SP hubs and 12mm brass nips. as it was my first build, i used some cheap cx-ray copies (CN aero424). it ended up at 1410g (no tape etc). it probably would be within 10g of yours with valves and yellow tape. btw, my rims were 360g each (on my 10g scale).

i notice that those spline wheels originally came with round spokes. i still have no idea how they'd stop them from spinning while building with them.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

CHRIST! Okay, better than 240, super light hubs from DT Swiss...

DT Swiss - SPLINE ONE Technology

The original DTS wheel build had 3 different spoke lengths, but when I unlaced them, I noticed the longer spokes where bedded very deep in the nipple and the shorter spokes were pretty shallow. I got the off sets for the hubs and spoke lengths from DT Swiss.

I used 300 spokes and 14mm nipps. Yes, the 27mm hookless rims, which measured closer to 23mm internal and I had them make the rims closer to 370g and that is exactly what they were. Which, by the way, is what the DTS alloy Spline rims weigh.

You just hold the spoke with your finger or a tool to keep them from spinning.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

MTB Pilot said:


> CHRIST! Okay, better than 240, super light hubs from DT Swiss...


Whoa, trigger, they look like very nice hubs, just not like 240s, so I was curious why you thought that.
What do they weigh?
You pulled apart the Spline wheels to upgrade rims?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

MTB Pilot said:


> 240 internals with a 2 piece hub body.


All DT Swiss hubs share the Ratchet System (internals).


MTB Pilot said:


> Don't remember exact weights, but 10 grams lighter per hub from online figures.


Ah... I was hoping you had weighed them, since a window into component weights of these proprietary wheel "systems" is rare.
Online figures... meh. :arf:



MTB Pilot said:


> The XR 1501 is a nice wheel set that came on my 429c, but I used them on my Les. With 2.2 tires in the rear, a rear yoke that can fit true 2.5 tires, I was getting tire rube on both sides after every ride. Wanted light stiffer carbon rims and stronger spokes, so why not use the existing high quality hub... Plus I got 3mm more internally to let the tire open up.


Definitely a good idea! :thumbsup:
They look like really nice hubs.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

If I remember correctly, the front hub was just shy of 120g and the rear was right at 220g(with dirt). I knew I should have taken a picture!

Yes, I needed stronger rims due to the flexing, but need to take 5-7mm off the spokes for the new rim ERD, so just went with new light, strong spokes and brass nips for corrosion issue.

Thanks for the compliment; Silver spokes were the only Rays I could find in 300mm.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

I've ordered Carbonbicycle's wide rims, 26" front 29er rear to my 69er recumbent. Been happy of my two pairs of WTB LaserDisc Lite hubs thus going to build this wheelset using 32h set, DT Revolution spokes and brass nipples. Hubs weight 155/265 grams and wheelset 1559 grams per DT calculator.

My intention is to use 2.1" tires, have less burping and shave some weight from my current wheelset having same spokes and hubs.

Sent from my Lumia phone using Tapatalk


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## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

David C said:


> By inserting a old derailleur cable trough the spoke hole, fish it out by the valve hole, insert nipple on it, crimp a open-ended cable crimp on the cable, pull everything back in, seat the nipple and wrap a rubber band around it to prevent it from falling back in, then push the cable back put by the valve hole to take off the crimp and back out by the nipple (if you pull the whole cable out by the valve hole, you risk of pulling the nipple back into the rim). Repeat 31 more times, then you can start lacing the first wheel. About 2-3 hours for both rims if you're very fast and 4-6 hours if you're just the normal home wrench. But it's worth not having to fuzz with rim tape ever again :thumbsup:


I recently had a spoke break off right at the nipple head. There's no spoke left protruding to grab/hold while trying to unscrew the nipple. The nipple hole is blocked by the broken spoke. For an undrilled rim, where you can't reach the nipple from the back side (hah!), it sounds like if this happens, you end up with a trashed rim?

(you can't get the nipple out, nor reuse the nipple?)


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

MTB Pilot said:


> Thanks for the compliment; Silver spokes were the only Rays I could find in 300mm.


Plus it's kind of cool to have a wheelset that more than likely is one-of-a-kind. :thumbsup:


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## kikikuku (Jul 20, 2011)

Can someone direct me to select a right product for my new build ? XC style riding, mostly around central Texas. 140lbs rider not aggressive riding. What would be an ideal budget for 29er XC race oriented wheel ? What width size should I stay with 24mm, 27mm or 35mm ? what rim should I get hookless or tubular ? also any info on "how to build a wheel" would be nice. Thank you.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

MTB Pilot said:


> You just hold the spoke with your finger or a tool to keep them from spinning.


geez, you must vice grip fingers, to be able to stop a round SP spoke from spinning. i didn't know they had round spoke holding tools. could you direct me to a link.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Knipex pliers will grip the spokes with no damage.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

which ones?

seems to be quite a few:
KNIPEX - The Pliers Company. - Products

are there some semi-soft jawed ones, and/or maybe with a curve in them, like some kind of axle clamp?

i find it hard to imagine a plier that would hold a round spoke


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

KNIPEX - The Pliers Company. - Products

The top one here. I have 3 sizes of the "original" but use the smallest (35mm) for spokes. The 3 size set of these (if they are still available) are the most useful tools in my box.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Amazing gripping force, flat gripping surface for eliminating damage, very good sensitivity of gripping force because of leverage ratio. The big one can rip stuff up when that is necessary.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

i think i'm sold. it looks like they'd be useful for all kinds of things.

i found a decent range here: One of a kind Knipex Pliers Wrench, the only professional adjustable wrench


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The 7", 10" and 12" set for $140 is what I have. The 7' is in my bike stand, the 10" is in my motorhome toolbox and the 12" is in my big tool box. I use them for everything. The 12" have so much leverage and grip that they are amazing. Make vice grips look puny.


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## kikikuku (Jul 20, 2011)

Trying to pick out a rim here !! what do they mean by hookless/beadless and clincher !! Thanks. XC rider.

Trail Tech: Off the hook - BikeRadar <-- FOUND MY Answer


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

sclyde2 said:


> geez, you must vice grip fingers, to be able to stop a round SP spoke from spinning. i didn't know they had round spoke holding tools. could you direct me to a link.


Linesman's pliers with some tube in the jaws will work fine. You can glue the tube I. There if you want a dedicated tool.
I have no trouble holding them with my fingers.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

kikikuku said:


> Trying to pick out a rim here !! what do they mean by hookless/beadless and clincher !! Thanks. XC rider.
> 
> Trail Tech: Off the hook - BikeRadar <-- FOUND MY Answer


Spend some time researching the volumes of information available in this forum rather than asking to be spoonfed a complete personalized guide to your wheel selection and build. Jeez.


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## cage (Jan 20, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> Spend some time researching the volumes of information available in this forum rather than asking to be spoonfed a complete personalized guide to your wheel selection and build. Jeez.


Now there's a helpful answer....NOT.

Funny how its always the ones with the high post counts that are the most arrogant.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Hi there, I am after some new rims. I have heard that you could get some cheap chinese rims, so i googled it, found this thread, and now i'm here. 

The thread seems quite large, and I can't be bothered reading any of it, so could someone (whose time is less valuable than mine) please summarize the whole thread for me please? i.e. list all the alternative rims/wheels, where to get them, a complied summary of reviews of all wheels/rims, reports of breakages, warranty experiences etc.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

^ another nice entry...

Sent from my Lumia phone using Tapatalk


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

cage said:


> Now there's a helpful answer....NOT.
> 
> Funny how its always the ones with the high post counts that are the most arrogant.


It's more like the ones who spend the most time helping people and providing information. All you're doing is being an ass.
Wouldn't it be a better use of your time to provide him with answers to all his questions: what rim he should use, what bead style, ideal budget, rim width, and then teach him how to build a wheel? I think so.


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

That feeling when your wheelset passes through customs on a Friday so you won't get it until Monday... Great!


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## cage (Jan 20, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> It's more like the ones who spend the most time helping people and providing information. All you're doing is being an ass.
> Wouldn't it be a better use of your time to provide him with answers to all his questions: what rim he should use, what bead style, ideal budget, rim width, and then teach him how to build a wheel? I think so.


Exactly the same could be said for you.

If you don't like some one's question, you can choose to ignore it. If you choose to be an arrogant fool, then don't complain when you get pulled up on it.


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## kikikuku (Jul 20, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> Spend some time researching the volumes of information available in this forum rather than asking to be spoonfed a complete personalized guide to your wheel selection and build. Jeez.


I did find my answers and referring to the link as i want to share that info. I coulda deleted my question/post, and move on with it. But i want to leave it out there with a reference link as to help others. Really, what part of my post consider "asking to be spooned feed" ? Jeez what an attitude !


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

kikikuku said:


> I did find my answers and referring to the link as i want to share that info. I coulda deleted my question/post, and move on with it. But i want to leave it out there with a reference link as to help others. Really, what part of my post consider "asking to be spooned feed" ? Jeez what an attitude !


The part where instead of simply doing a google search on such a basic question, you chose to post in this thread and ask, instead of either A)asking such a basic question in the beginner subforum or B) googling the question in the first place.

Posts such as your is what makes finding the useful information specific to these rims so difficult.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

kikikuku said:


> Really, what part of my post consider "asking to be spooned feed" ? Jeez what an attitude !


The part where you ask, "what rim, what budget, what width, what style, and how do I build a wheel?" in a thread about a specific topic.
When someone provides for you everything you need, like you asked for, without you doing anything, it's called spoonfeeding.
It is how infants get their nutrition because they are unable to feed themselves.
Posts like yours just clutter threads and forums and make it harder for people to find information that is actually useful.
Deleting your post is a good idea. What "reference link" is left that could possibly help someone?


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## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> Mark-up?


Yep. I was a very very early customer of LB, and paid a lot more, much worse service this year, that I won't be buying from them again. Rims are fine BTW, just horrible service.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Update: After 3 weeks and a dozen or so back and fourth email, light-bicycle finally came through on a replacement rim! I just have to pay shipping. They convinced me to get the new hookless version. I didn't want a significantly wider wheel in the back than the front so I ordered a second 35mm rim to match which was probably their plan all along. I give them a lot of credit for coming through on the replacement, I honestly did not expect one. We'll have to wait and see how long it takes to get here. 

Anyway, I gave up hope for a replacement a while back and ordered 2 rims from carbonbicycle.com. So I have FOUR, chinese carbon hoops headed to my apartment as well as one perfectly good 30mm rim laced to a hope hub. (anybody want it??) 

Dunno if I will build up both sets and use one on my FS and one on my HT or just sell on one set. It will give me an opportunity to look at the two rims side by side and see if they really are identical.


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## HouseNotes (Aug 18, 2012)

PM me the details on the wheel. I am interested. Thanks.


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## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

Why couldn't you get another 30mm rim? They still have them on the website...

At 375g, you're almost at WTB i23 KOM weight... not sure I understand the point of carbon at that point, considering the durability issues (rim cracking instead of denting).

Honestly, I'd prefer a 21mm internal width rim for another 15g shaved off the weight, for under 350g. Offer a 21mm and the 26mm version. 26mm is reaching 'stupid wide' territory for 2.1 tires - you lose your cornering knobs from being too rounded off.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I will take it.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Side by side pictures of the 2 brands would be great.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Lindahl said:


> Why couldn't you get another 30mm rim? They still have them on the website...
> 
> At 375g, you're almost at WTB i23 KOM weight... not sure I understand the point of carbon at that point, considering the durability issues (rim cracking instead of denting).


I could've, but I was tempted by extra width and possible greater impact resistance of the hookless rim. Weight isn't the main issue for me, it's more about stiffness. I tend to push very hard in corners and both of my bikes have very stiff frames. The KOM is very light (though not as light as advertised) but there are some quality issues compared to other WTB rims. They are very difficult to build and a lot of the ones I've seen are not particularly round. When riding them, the stiffness feels about on par with a an arch ex (ie pretty flexy by my standards.) They also tend to go out of true easily. Sorry to go on a Rant about KOM's but as you can tell, my experience was pretty bad.

Anyway, with the 35mm rims I get the stiffness of a flow ex (likely more so) with 4.5mm extra internal width at about 125g lighter per rim. I run my two bikes at about a 75-25 split.

Hardtail (yelli screamy) 75% of the time on everyday trails and my Process 111 25% of the time on more technical weekend trips. The Yelli is running a set of flows and the Process was running the carbon hoops, same hubs, same spokes. The difference in stiffness is immediately apparent in switching between the two wheelsets. Their dimensions are almost identical but the carbons give a much livelier feel. They also tend to hold true much better than the flows even though they saw mileage on both bikes.

I figured having two interchangeable sets of wheels on both bikes would be a nice luxury and I had a good opportunity to get a second set. That was my overwrought explanation for spending $180 quite unnecessarily.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

rusty904 said:


> They are very difficult to build and a lot of the ones I've seen are not particularly round.


It definitely sounds like you have some legitimate beefs with your KOM experience.
However, I'll just point out one sort of nitpicky (but important) thing: a rim being "not round" is a build technique issue. Very rarely are rims these days not round out of the box, but even if an aluminum rim like the KOM were out of round when unlaced, it is easily and quickly fixed as part of the wheel build (during initial tensioning) with no detrimental effects. It is eSy and very predictable to pull an aluminum rim into round when it is first transitioning from zero tension. It is MUCH more difficult to try and deal with a hop once the wheel has significant tension.
What I've found time and again is that many people want to hurry the process and add tension too quickly, squeezing bulges into the rims, which they then blame on the rim being "not round" out of the box. If they would check roundness at the very earliest stages and not add tension too quickly they would build rounder wheels. I've seen this in guys who have been building for over a decade, which unfortunately makes it much more difficult for them to see the benefit of an adjustment to their technique.


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

Picked up my wheelset from the Post Office today! They are so light compared to my old wheelset (2,100 grams).



















Like everyone has said. They are super easy to set up tubeless. I used two layers of Stans tape just in case, and pumped them up with a floor pump without issues. Can't wait to test ride them tomorrow!


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## geetide (Jun 13, 2006)

I was looking at getting a set of 29er carbon rims from light-bicylce. I'm a larger guy (220lb), so I'm assuming I need to get the 35mm wide ones? I'd love to save as much weight as possible, but I'm not sure if the 27s or 30s can handle my weight. Any advice? I ride mostly XC but there are some big rocks on the trails near home.


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm 198# without gear and I love the wide rims. The width really helps with torsional stiffness. With Hope Pro 2 hubs, these are still very light, but much stiffer than anything in the aluminum category.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

geetide said:


> I was looking at getting a set of 29er carbon rims from light-bicylce. I'm a larger guy (220lb), so I'm assuming I need to get the 35mm wide ones? I'd love to save as much weight as possible, but I'm not sure if the 27s or 30s can handle my weight. Any advice? I ride mostly XC but there are some big rocks on the trails near home.


The rim width depends on tire width? What width tires do you use?

For more weight you want more spokes and more pressure in your tires. If you have enough spokes and enough tire pressure, your wheels will be tough enough.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> Linesman's pliers with some tube in the jaws will work fine. You can glue the tube I. There if you want a dedicated tool.
> I have no trouble holding them with my fingers.


I'm having good luck with turning them 1/8 past and 1/8 back. Seems quicker/easier than fiddling with pliers.


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## thecrackerasscracker (Jan 12, 2008)

Ordered my 35mm 29er rims August 4 just received them today and they look great


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm running a Minion DHF 2.5 up front, and will be changing the HR II 2.3 to a Minion DHF 2.3 out back. They mounted and sealed up well with Gorilla tape, Stans valves, and Stans sealant. The rims still are true even after getting smacked around in the rock gardens in Utah.


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

*hateful reply*



meltingfeather said:


> Spend some time researching the volumes of information available in this forum rather than asking to be spoonfed a complete personalized guide to your wheel selection and build. Jeez.


Wow, looks like somebody is really having a bad day. You should be ashamed.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

hokiebrett said:


> I'm having good luck with turning them 1/8 past and 1/8 back. Seems quicker/easier than fiddling with pliers.


my initial query was about stopping STRAIGHT PULL round spokes from spinning. i dunno if any of you guys are talking about those.


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## rjkowski (Oct 14, 2009)

geetide said:


> I was looking at getting a set of 29er carbon rims from light-bicylce. I'm a larger guy (220lb), so I'm assuming I need to get the 35mm wide ones? I'd love to save as much weight as possible, but I'm not sure if the 27s or 30s can handle my weight. Any advice? I ride mostly XC but there are some big rocks on the trails near home.


I weigh about 225 lbs once geared up, and I am running a set of LB 27 wide hookless rims with DT 240 hubs and Sapim CX ray spokes. Total weight for the set is 1483 g without any tape or valve stems. I'm running them on a hardtail and they are rock solid. I think you'll be ok with the 27s.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Here are some better picks of my LB 27mm rims with DT Swiss Spline 1 hubs, CX Rays and brass nips. 1450g taped:thumbsup:


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

geetide said:


> I was looking at getting a set of 29er carbon rims from light-bicylce. I'm a larger guy (220lb), so I'm assuming I need to get the 35mm wide ones? I'd love to save as much weight as possible, but I'm not sure if the 27s or 30s can handle my weight. Any advice? I ride mostly XC but there are some big rocks on the trails near home.


You don't NEED the wider rims because of your weight. Instead you should choose a rim that is suited to a heavier rider. Note that the max weight allowed on LightBicycle's rims is 120-130kg, and is typically 150kg on Nextie rims. This gives you a LARGE factor-of-safety (120kg ~=264lbs).

At 240lbs, the way that I ensured that I wasn't going to be 'under-rimmed' was by asking LightBicycle for rims that were at the upper end of the production tolerance. My rims were ~20g heavier than the nominal weight.

The reason to buy a wider rim is either:
1.to suit a wider tyre (e.g. a 2.3" tyre probably won't work well on a rim with an ID of 19mm, 23mm is more like it), 
or 
2. to flatten out the profile of any tyre & to give it more volume - this is why many people are buying wider rims.

What tyre(s) & size(s) do you use?


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

rusty904 said:


> Update: After 3 weeks and a dozen or so back and fourth email, light-bicycle finally came through on a replacement rim! I just have to pay shipping. They convinced me to get the new hookless version. I didn't want a significantly wider wheel in the back than the front so I ordered a second 35mm rim to match which was probably their plan all along. I give them a lot of credit for coming through on the replacement, I honestly did not expect one. We'll have to wait and see how long it takes to get here.
> 
> Anyway, I gave up hope for a replacement a while back and ordered 2 rims from carbonbicycle.com. So I have FOUR, chinese carbon hoops headed to my apartment as well as one perfectly good 30mm rim laced to a hope hub. (anybody want it??)
> 
> Dunno if I will build up both sets and use one on my FS and one on my HT or just sell on one set. It will give me an opportunity to look at the two rims side by side and see if they really are identical.


Please let us know if the rims are identical - thanks!


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

PuddleDuck said:


> Please let us know if the rims are identical - thanks!


Slight change of plan! LB is sending me a 30mm ED hookless rim with the same ERD as my previous rim so I can re-use the spokes. This was a little weird to me as I don't see such a rim listed on their site. They just charged me $41 shipping.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Also, does anyone have pics of a wheelset with 35mm rims built up? I tried doing a search but I can't come up with any images. Just curious to see what the look like built up/on a bike.


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## thecrackerasscracker (Jan 12, 2008)

*35mm*









Just built these last night hope to try them out tomorrow man did it make the tires bigger


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## matmattmatthew (Feb 17, 2007)

thecrackerasscracker said:


> View attachment 917434
> 
> 
> Just built these last night hope to try them out tomorrow man did it make the tires bigger


Hoping to bump into you on the trail and take a look at those wheels in person. I'm subconsciously trying to destroy my current rims so I can have an excuse to order the LB 35mms.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

thecrackerasscracker said:


> View attachment 917434
> 
> 
> Just built these last night hope to try them out tomorrow man did it make the tires bigger


That's a sweet looking ride! What is the fork and HA? What spokes did you use in your build?


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

I have the 29er LB Bead Hookless XC Rims. Been riding on the since May. Everywhere from Arizona, Colorado, to Pennsylvania, and a few areas inbetween. They are scuffed, scratched, and have been ridden in everything from buff hero dirt to Gnar Rock.

They are awesome Rims, I would not hesitate to but them again....I'm actually saving for the Fat Bike Rims for my Muk Luk.

Tomorrow when I get home from work I'll snap some pics.


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## jbtute (Aug 6, 2014)

PuddleDuck said:


> You don't NEED the wider rims because of your weight. Instead you should choose a rim that is suited to a heavier rider. Note that the max weight allowed on LightBicycle's rims is 120-130kg, and is typically 150kg on Nextie rims. This gives you a LARGE factor-of-safety (120kg ~=264lbs).
> 
> At 240lbs, the way that I ensured that I wasn't going to be 'under-rimmed' was by asking LightBicycle for rims that were at the upper end of the production tolerance. My rims were ~20g heavier than the nominal weight.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure your reasoning is sound on wanting a heavier set. Without knowing what is heavier is most likely just some additional epoxy. The carbon fabric is very uniform and the cut length is too. The variability in composite weight is usually epoxy. More epoxy isn't necessarily or even likely stronger. Unless they add more carbon fabric it won't add strength.


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## HouseNotes (Aug 18, 2012)

*Light-Bicycle vs Carbon Bicycle Rims*

Anybody have any experience comparing these two companies wheels? I've checked and they are priced $180 vs $145 for the same 35mm hookless rim. Appear to be the same rim-different company. Made in same place? Rusty904?


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

mhelander said:


> I've ordered Carbonbicycle's wide rims, 26" front 29er rear to my 69er recumbent.


I've got confirmation of my purchase and some email exchanging but not yet confirmation of shipping. It's way past promised 8-10 days lead time which was met near past weekend.

Hopeful to see shipping confirmation today...


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## plussa (Jul 12, 2005)

I just ordered 30mm outer / 24mm inner width hookless rims from L-B:










Rim profile drawing provided by Nancy. This is the hookless version of "_Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible)"_. Not really listed on the website but it exists.

I like the boxy, lower and wider profile more than the more parabolic-shaped 27/22mm rim, also the sidewalls are thicker (3mm vs 2,5mm):


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

HouseNotes said:


> Anybody have any experience comparing these two companies wheels? I've checked and they are priced $180 vs $145 for the same 35mm hookless rim. Appear to be the same rim-different company. Made in same place? Rusty904?


I have a 30mm replacement rim on the way from LB and some 35's on the way from carbon bicycle. I can compare the quality as best I can but the rims will different of course.

I can tell you the order process has been very similar. I ordered, was promised an eight day lead time, waited a couple weeks, no updates. Then I sent an email inquiring whats going on and then get an immediate response, "we'll ship out now". They both take a little prodding to fill out orders!

Carbon Bicycle told me 12-15days for delivery on friday (different than the seven days they told me at the time of my order). If their estimate is true, the delivery time will be pretty similar to LB, about 1 month.


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## axl886 (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi, I weigh around 170+lbs fully suited up. Am intending to get the 27mm hookless rim from LB:









for a 120mm FS, for XC and light trail applications. Will it be suitable?

Also, it is the norm to pay the 3.5% paypal fees (rims + freight) for LB orders? Thanks.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Yes.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

mhelander said:


> Hopeful to see shipping confirmation today...


Rims are here and look good. Unfortunately spokes didn't make in office hours so building wheels later.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

plussa said:


> I just ordered 30mm outer / 24mm inner width hookless rims from L-B:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting, did they quote a weight on that rim? Wonder if the Bonty tubeless strips would fit.


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

spsoon said:


> Interesting, did they quote a weight on that rim? Wonder if the Bonty tubeless strips would fit.


My wheelset just arrived with these. I also have the 30mm wide old ones that people were using the strips with. I used the same 25 mm stans tape for both so they seem like the same width interior. Not sure if the strips have to catch on anything or if they just use pressure from the sides.

The hookless ones actually sealed up a little better for me.

They said my rims were 368g and 372g.


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## plussa (Jul 12, 2005)

Tubeless strips? I thougt people are just using yellow tape with these?


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## Bwick84 (Jul 16, 2007)

plussa said:


> Tubeless strips? I thougt people are just using yellow tape with these?


That's all I use and works great. Some people like the bontrager strips instead.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

mhelander said:


> I've ordered Carbonbicycle's wide rims, 26" front 29er rear to my 69er recumbent.


Got my rims Friday but shipping containing spokes is still on its way. Rims are on upper limit of CB specs but look great. Eager to start building those wheels...


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## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

It seems to me after randomly scrolling through 6303 messages that general consensus is to go with the LB wheels so has anyone had any experience with these other ones; 
700c carbon fiber rims, Carbon MTB wheels MTB Rims items in diy-bike store on eBay!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

They appear to be heavy.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Camaleon said:


> It seems to me after randomly scrolling through 6303 messages that general consensus is to go with the LB wheels so has anyone had any experience with these other ones;
> 700c carbon fiber rims, Carbon MTB wheels MTB Rims items in diy-bike store on eBay!


Wheels or rims? Big difference. I don't think the general consensus is to go with their wheels. So far what I've seen people posting would tend to indicate LB doesn't how to build a wheel properly.


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## ErikGBL (Mar 26, 2008)

*29er 30 mm hookless options*

I have built four 29er wheels with the LB 30 mm "wide" rims with rim hooks and I have good experience with LB and the wheels I have built have served my terrific on my FS and HT for two years now.
I will now build two new 29er wheels with 30 mm hookless rims and I updated myself by reading the last months of this thread before buying (I followed it the first years). There seems to be three options:
1.	Buy from LB, but these rims are not listed on their web-site! No prices, no weights, no dimensions. A total secret product and if you want any information you have to e-mail them. Funny. Still it seems to be the preferred vendor on this forum! The rims appear to have 24 mm inner width according to e-mail published on this forum.
2.	Buy from Xiamen Iplay. These rims are different and have an inner width of 26 mm and a weight of 410 g. Larger inner width is a good thing from a tire geometry perspective, but it may make the rim sidewalls weaker (?) I would prefer these rims, but I have negative experience with this company when they delivered a frame which was much heavier than specified. I never got a straight response from them (Peter, who is active in this forum) when I complained and claimed a return of the frame.
3.	The third alternative is to buy from Carbon Bicycle. Their rims seams to be more or less identical to the LB rims and have a good price. However, I have seen no reports on the quality of these rims.
4. The last option is to buy from Carbonal. Their rim geometry is seems to be the same at LB and Carbon Bicycle, but the rims are much heavier, 460 g, which is 100 g more than their 27 mm rim and only 10 g lighter than their 35 mm rim. Is this really correct?

Any advice?


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## Zagi (Feb 1, 2007)

Buy rims from Iplay in 3k matt outlook and 27 mm width , for my xc racing Chinandale
Looks nice and actual weight is lower than advertised
To be build next week


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

TwoTone said:


> Wheels or rims? Big difference. I don't think the general consensus is to go with their wheels. So far what I've seen people posting would tend to indicate LB doesn't how to build a wheel properly.


I have purchased a set of wheels from LB. I took it to my LBS to have them do a once over before riding on them. They were very impressed with the build and quality of the wheel set. I may be one of the lucky ones, but others on here that have bought wheel set are more than satisfied with their purchase.


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## Ramborage (May 7, 2013)

I've had my wheels built by LB and have been riding them for almost two months now with no problems whatsoever. And they've stayed trued since the day I got them.


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## Jack0207 (Jan 29, 2012)

TwoTone said:


> Wheels or rims? Big difference. I don't think the general consensus is to go with their wheels. So far what I've seen people posting would tend to indicate LB doesn't how to build a wheel properly.


I have had a LB wheelset for 3 months now and can't be happier. 30mm with hope hubs.


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## Michael Ede (Sep 8, 2014)

Looking at a set of 30mm internal 32h rims from either carbonality or xmiplay. Had been planning on using Bontrager Rhythm strips but being ignorant of how they worked didn't realise that they won't actually do the job in the wider rim. Is the only option using tape? I really liked the idea of the strips just working as this will be my first tubeless setup, probably with Ardent race or Ikon tyres or Racing Ralphs. Main use will be 24 hour cross country racing in the UK.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Tape > Rim Strips in my experience.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Definitely try tape first. Schwalbes usually fit quite tight. Maybe even too tight for strips on those rims


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

Michael Ede said:


> Looking at a set of 30mm internal 32h rims from either carbonality or xmiplay. Had been planning on using Bontrager Rhythm strips but being ignorant of how they worked didn't realise that they won't actually do the job in the wider rim. Is the only option using tape? I really liked the idea of the strips just working as this will be my first tubeless setup, probably with Ardent race or Ikon tyres or Racing Ralphs. Main use will be 24 hour cross country racing in the UK.


I have both the 35 and the 30mm 'external' width hookless from LB. The 35 set in 650b on a Bronson and the 30 set on my 29er Tallboy. I debated on whether to put 35s on the tallboy and I am glad that I didn't. The 35s are really big and way more than you need for XC racing on a 29er. LB also do a 27mm width hookless rim which I contemplated but I decided to go middle of the road with the 30s.

I built both sets up with DT Swiss 350 hubs and DT revo spokes. I ran the 29er with 2.25 Racing Ralphs and did the Single Track 6 6day stage race in BC, several other day races and lots of general riding here in Whistler.

I worried about the hookless concept but its been perfect and I think it makes for a stronger rim bead. Even with the lower priced performance series Racing Ralphs and Nobby Nics no burps or other issues at low pressures. Neither tire is rated 'tubeless ready' on the Schwalbe website.

I have used gorilla tape the last couple years and it functions great but it leaves a lot of residue so I switched to the Scotch 8898 that people claim is a good Stan's alternative. Its okay, leaves no residue but its not as easy to apply as Stans tape. I mix my own sealant and I cut my valve stems out of old tubes. Despite a ghetto setup and non tubeless ready tires the wheels have been stellar. So I wouldn't worry about not being able to run the strips. Tape works great.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

ErikGBL said:


> I have built four 29er wheels with the LB 30 mm "wide" rims with rim hooks and I have good experience with LB and the wheels I have built have served my terrific on my FS and HT for two years now.
> I will now build two new 29er wheels with 30 mm hookless rims and I updated myself by reading the last months of this thread before buying (I followed it the first years). There seems to be three options:
> 1.	Buy from LB, but these rims are not listed on their web-site! No prices, no weights, no dimensions. A total secret product and if you want any information you have to e-mail them. Funny. Still it seems to be the preferred vendor on this forum! The rims appear to have 24 mm inner width according to e-mail published on this forum.
> 2.	Buy from Xiamen Iplay. These rims are different and have an inner width of 26 mm and a weight of 410 g. Larger inner width is a good thing from a tire geometry perspective, but it may make the rim sidewalls weaker (?) I would prefer these rims, but I have negative experience with this company when they delivered a frame which was much heavier than specified. I never got a straight response from them (Peter, who is active in this forum) when I complained and claimed a return of the frame.
> ...


LB does not spend enough time updating and improving their website. Its very confusing. They should take a lesson from Nextie. I bought the LB 29er 30mm hookless rims a few months ago after I had bought a set of their 650b 35mm hookless rims. I had to ask about the 30mm ones as they were at that time a new product and I saw them mentioned in a forum. I still don't see them listed on their website but they are mentioned in the customer questions sections.

The 30mm wide ones have been great. I think a nice balance between width and weight for XC and all mountain. The 30 according to the diagram they sent me has inner width of 24mm making for 3mm wide rim bead which is actually thicker by .5mm than on the 650b 35mm wide rims from them. You would think the thicker bead would be on the wider heavier rim anticipating more abuse? I would buy either LB set again. I might also consider the Nextie rims based on comments in other forums.


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## Michael Ede (Sep 8, 2014)

Okay, will try tape. I assume pretty much any self adhesive tape with low gas permeability would do?

Last question, who sells the widest chinese 29er carbon rims? 30mm internal seems the widest but would be interested in 35 / 40mm if someone is making them. Many thanks.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Well the 35mm rims laced up well enough to my I9 Spokes and hubs. There is a few millimeters of thread left on either side where the spokes thread into the hub. They are certainly fine now and I think there is enough room for re-tensioning down the road. The posted ERD numbers were like 7mm different between these so I'm guessing that carbonbicycle.cc was a bit off on their erd numbers. Had a very experienced builder do the re-lacing.

With the thick I-9 spokes these things look burly as hell. With the used I-9 wheelset and the new carbon rims I'm in this set for about $1k with two nice backup rims to boot.


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## sennaster (Sep 21, 2006)

rusty904 said:


> View attachment 922256
> 
> 
> Well the 35mm rims laced up well enough to my I9 Spokes and hubs.


Which I9s did you start with? Trail or Enduro?


----------



## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Enduro's


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## plussa (Jul 12, 2005)

Can anyone confirm is the claimed ERD 603 correct for RM29C02 rims?

_(RM29C02 is the product number for both hooked and hookless 30mm outer width rims.)_


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Michael Ede said:


> Last question, who sells the widest chinese 29er carbon rims? 30mm internal seems the widest but would be interested in 35 / 40mm if someone is making them. Many thanks.


I believe the only 40mm wide carbon rims right now are from Ibis, but only sold as a complete wheelset currently.

Probably not what you're looking for, but Nextie is now making a 50mm wide 29+ carbon rim, the 'Jungle Fox'. Mine are being built up right now to go on a 29+ Carver Gnarvester.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

bikeny said:


> I believe the only 40mm wide carbon rims right now are from Ibis, but only sold as a complete wheelset currently.
> 
> Probably not what you're looking for, but Nextie is now making a 50mm wide 29+ carbon rim, the 'Jungle Fox'. Mine are being built up right now to go on a 29+ Carver Gnarvester.


The 41mm Ibis 941 is not yet available.


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

Just recently took delivery of a set of LB 26" 33mm wide hookless rims. So far I am questioning my purchase: 

2 rides, 2 JRA "fatal" rear pinch flats. The first on a WTB wierwolf which sealed up with stans at a very low psi and I was able to limp gingerly home. Today a Conti Mtn King, an hour and a half from home 100 yds into the descent and had to walk (turns out std tube valve stems are not long enough to work with the deep dish LB rims). But seriously, while I was going downhill I didn't hit anything hard. And I was running at 30psi.

I'm hoping the collective wisdom of MTBR can help me out, since I used you all to feel confident in the purchase...

Here are my other observations: 
The WTB tires were almost impossible to mount. And while they sealed right up with a pump, they were very difficult to get the bead to slide up onto the rim shoulder and seat against the rim wall. Requiring several inflate/deflate cycles, lotsa soap and lots of working on it. This is with 1 wrap of gorilla tape. And as soon as you deflate, they pop off the seat.

The conti fully seated at 65 psi, but required a compressor to do so.

You need to buy the longer "road" tubeless valve stems and then make sure your "backup" tubes are long valved as well.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

laksboy said:


> Just recently took delivery of a set of LB 26" 33mm wide hookless rims. So far I am questioning my purchase:
> 
> 2 rides, 2 JRA "fatal" rear pinch flats. The first on a WTB wierwolf which sealed up with stans at a very low psi and I was able to limp gingerly home. Today a Conti Mtn King, an hour and a half from home 100 yds into the descent and had to walk (turns out std tube valve stems are not long enough to work with the deep dish LB rims). But seriously, while I was going downhill I didn't hit anything hard. And I was running at 30psi.
> 
> ...


My two cents, if the tires are hard to mount tubeless on that wheel set, they are the wrong tires. I have had great luck with Maxxis, Specialized, and Schwalbe tubeless ready tires on my LB wheels, which includes a set of 29er 23mm internal and the new wider version in 27.5". Like mount with a floor pump and hold air without sealant.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

laksboy said:


> Just recently took delivery of a set of LB 26" 33mm wide hookless rims. So far I am questioning my purchase:
> 
> 2 rides, 2 JRA "fatal" rear pinch flats. The first on a WTB wierwolf which sealed up with stans at a very low psi and I was able to limp gingerly home. Today a Conti Mtn King.....


Isn't a pinch flat when a tire pinches a tube and tears it open? Since your tires are tubeless, this should be impossible. Do you mean your tires burped?
My Maxxis Icons have been great with no problems so far at about 200mi. They are tubeless and I keep them at about 20 psi. They are 2.35 wide and I have the 30mm inner width rims.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

dugt said:


> Isn't a pinch flat when a tire pinches a tube and tears it open? Since your tires are tubeless, this should be impossible. Do you mean your tires burped?
> My Maxxis Icons have been great with no problems so far at about 200mi. They are tubeless and I keep them at about 20 psi. They are 2.35 wide and I have the 30mm inner width rims.


You can get pinch flats on tires too, albeit less common.


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

yes. To me a pinchflat and snakebite are the same thing and now happened to 2 new tubeless tires, being run tubeless with stans on the first 2 rides with the new wheels. I have a small chip in the rim (2 now actually), a small hole at the rim, and a small hole in the tread. Is that not a pinch flat? I was running 30 psi, ~160 lbs on a 6" travel bike and I didn't feel like I hit anything hard in both cases. Anytime I pinch with tubes, I almost always know it because I FEEL it.

So I am currently discouraged and frustrated for my first "big" purchase since my dream bike 10 years ago. Also found out that standard tube valve stems aren't long enough for these rims and had a really long hike out...



dugt said:


> Isn't a pinch flat when a tire pinches a tube and tears it open? Since your tires are tubeless, this should be impossible. Do you mean your tires burped?
> My Maxxis Icons have been great with no problems so far at about 200mi. They are tubeless and I keep them at about 20 psi. They are 2.35 wide and I have the 30mm inner width rims.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

laksboy said:


> yes. To me a pinchflat and snakebite are the same thing and now happened to 2 new tubeless tires, being run tubeless with stans on the first 2 rides with the new wheels. I have a small chip in the rim (2 now actually), a small hole at the rim, and a small hole in the tread. Is that not a pinch flat? I was running 30 psi, ~160 lbs on a 6" travel bike and I didn't feel like I hit anything hard in both cases. Anytime I pinch with tubes, I almost always know it because I FEEL it.
> 
> So I am currently discouraged and frustrated for my first "big" purchase since my dream bike 10 years ago. Also found out that standard tube valve stems aren't long enough for these rims and had a really long hike out...


almost all carbon rims require longer valves, and ive seen this discussed not only in this thread, but numerous other threads throughout the site. That, is completely your fault.

30 psi seems high to still get pinch flats, how much do you weigh? and you said you were riding downhill, but were you riding a typical downhill type course? what size width tire are you using? are you using a protection type version with heavier sidewalls?


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

laksboy said:


> yes. To me a pinchflat and snakebite are the same thing and now happened to 2 new tubeless tires, being run tubeless with stans on the first 2 rides with the new wheels. I have a small chip in the rim (2 now actually), a small hole at the rim, and a small hole in the tread. Is that not a pinch flat? I was running 30 psi, ~160 lbs on a 6" travel bike and I didn't feel like I hit anything hard in both cases. Anytime I pinch with tubes, I almost always know it because I FEEL it.
> 
> So I am currently discouraged and frustrated for my first "big" purchase since my dream bike 10 years ago. Also found out that standard tube valve stems aren't long enough for these rims and had a really long hike out...


I don't see how it could be a rims fault if you pinch the tires so hard that they break.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

If you pinch it is never the rims fault since any rim would pinch if your tire gets pinched against it. I think you are burping first and losing pressure. Then you get a hit and pinch flat. You even described the fact that your tires are easy to move away from the bead.


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

yeah. I apparently missed the details about longer valve stems. 160ish and by downhill, I mean I was going down a typical rocky AM/enduro style trail. I would call it typical front range Denver type trail, though I am on the central coast of CA. By no means a DH course. 2.3 width tires. the WTBs are pretty thick sidewalls, but the contis are definitely lighter and thinner. Either way with the nick in the carbon rim, I made rim/rock contact, which I agree seems hard to believe at 30 psi considering I never felt it. Maybe my gauge is off by 5psi.... I currently have both tires patched with a tube pressed in at 50 psi, hoping to ensure the patches stick... Will take the tube out before riding and re-inflate 5psi higher.


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

laksboy said:


> Just recently took delivery of a set of LB 26" 33mm wide hookless rims. So far I am questioning my purchase:
> 
> 2 rides, 2 JRA "fatal" rear pinch flats. The first on a WTB wierwolf which sealed up with stans at a very low psi and I was able to limp gingerly home. Today a Conti Mtn King, an hour and a half from home 100 yds into the descent and had to walk (turns out std tube valve stems are not long enough to work with the deep dish LB rims). But seriously, while I was going downhill I didn't hit anything hard. And I was running at 30psi.
> 
> ...


Agree with others here - hard to point this to a rim issue.

I have purchased two sets of 29 hookless rims from LB (one for XC and one for Trail) and they have been flawless with tubeless setup. I use Schwalbe (Evo, Pacestar, snakeskin, etc.) here in SoCal. I run 25 front, 30 back, and weight 225 kitted. Wheels are on Pivot Mach 429 Carbon.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

*I wouldnt discount the role of the rim quite yet...*



laksboy said:


> yeah. I apparently missed the details about longer valve stems. 160ish and by downhill, I mean I was going down a typical rocky AM/enduro style trail. I would call it typical front range Denver type trail, though I am on the central coast of CA. By no means a DH course. 2.3 width tires. the WTBs are pretty thick sidewalls, but the contis are definitely lighter and thinner. Either way with the nick in the carbon rim, I made rim/rock contact, which I agree seems hard to believe at 30 psi considering I never felt it. Maybe my gauge is off by 5psi.... I currently have both tires patched with a tube pressed in at 50 psi, hoping to ensure the patches stick... Will take the tube out before riding and re-inflate 5psi higher.


@laksboy, while there are clearly a lot of people running LB hookless with no pinching problems at all, I wouldn't discount the role of the rims entirely, as some have suggested.

I have pinch flatted tire casings before, both tubeless and when running tubes. There have been particular rims which were definitely worse in this regard than others, but the factors are complex.

First of all, there is the shape of the outer edge of the rim. Some are rounded off, and some are squareish. In a direct frontal hit, square will distribute the force over more of the tire, which may be superior. However, in an edge hit, where the object you are striking is angled relative to the tire, a squared outer edge of the rim can be worse as you have a relatively sharp edge pinching the tire casing against the rock or whatever hard object you are striking.

Secondly, there is the inner height of the sidewalls of the rim, which determines how much tire sits "above" the rim, and how much sits inside. Most of the hookless rims seems to be slightly higher in this regard (like 1mm to 1.5mm) than typical, I assume to give a bit larger margin for error in preventing blow offs. In addition, some rims (like Stans) have lower than normal sidewall heights, which if you look on the Stan's website is a feature that they tout as giving you more tire casing between you and the ground for better cushion. If you switched from one of the shortest sidewall rims to one of the highest, you may have lost something like 3mm of tire "travel" before tire bottoming.

Thirdly, there is the question of rim sidewall stiffness. This is probably minor, but everyone talks about how "precise" carbon wheels are from a handling perspective. If the sidewalls are stiffer and therefore flex less when taking a hit, they will absorb less and that difference will go into the tire. I have had crap metal rims that seemed like they would dent without pinch flatting, whereas a high end harder alloy rim would have shrugged off the hit but pinched the tube.

And last, the width of the rim is a factor. In the last round of "wider rims are better", about 15yrs ago, I had some 45mm width rims that were the worst I had ever tried from a pinching the tire perspective. I had a second wheelset with approx 30mm rims and the same tires. I would swap back and forth on the same courses and there was a huge difference between the number of pinches. Some of the above factors may have played in as well, but I think that under certain circumstances, particularly at high lean angles on bumpy terrain, wider rims ride closer to the ground and are more likely to pinch the casing as a result.

As far as practical advice goes, there isn't much you can do about it, other than get some tires with beefier reinforced sidewalls to compensate, although that can get expensive if you have to use trial and error to figure out which ones hold up.

I hope that helps explain the possible influences...now tell us about your previous setup, rims, tires (with sidewall type if there were multiple options), pressures, etc...


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

TheKaiser said:


> @laksboy, while there are clearly a lot of people running LB hookless with no pinching problems at all, I wouldn't discount the role of the rims entirely, as some have suggested.
> 
> I have pinch flatted tire casings before, both tubeless and when running tubes. There have been particular rims which were definitely worse in this regard than others, but the factors are complex.
> 
> ...


Wow, nice post:thumbsup:


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

vice grips said:


> Wow, nice post:thumbsup:


Thanks Vice Grips!


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Vice Grips makes some great points. Additionally, maybe hookless in general is a bit more susceptible to harming beads? I am sticking with hooked aluminum rims until you guys sort all of this out. However, I am sure tire manufactures are going to address the wide rim craze. Good for us. I look forward to everyone's experiences, and these threads about new style of rims are great. I'm so dinosaur.


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## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Rims only


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Oops, Sorry, I meant The Kaiser. Good points.


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## plussa (Jul 12, 2005)

plussa said:


> Can anyone confirm is the claimed ERD 603 correct for RM29C02 rims?


I just received the rims and measured the ERD myself. Yes, ERD 603 is indeed correct. Weights are 393 and 397 grams. (390g+/-10g promised)


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

mhelander said:


> Rims are here and look good. Unfortunately spokes didn't make in office hours so building wheels later.


Finally shipping with spokes and discs arrived. Wheels are built and are very straight and keep Thunder Burt tires exceptionally well seated. Tires are on spec or little wider when measured from casing. Both good, likely newer burping even when compared to WTB LaserDisc rims.

Next to test in cyclo-cross all-out event...


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

laksboy said:


> Just recently took delivery of a set of LB 26" 33mm wide hookless rims. So far I am questioning my purchase:
> 
> 2 rides, 2 JRA "fatal" rear pinch flats. The first on a WTB wierwolf which sealed up with stans at a very low psi and I was able to limp gingerly home. Today a Conti Mtn King, an hour and a half from home 100 yds into the descent and had to walk (turns out std tube valve stems are not long enough to work with the deep dish LB rims). But seriously, while I was going downhill I didn't hit anything hard. And I was running at 30psi.
> 
> ...


30 psi is the most air pressure that I run in my tires in the rear. usually 20f/28r. Run 2.35 nobby nics on 35mm LB. If I hit something with 30psi that hard to pinch flat a tubeless tire then I am going to feel it. My suspicion is you lost air somehow and then pinched it. So either it burped or got holed first and then got pinched.

When you were mounting the Weirwolfs why did you inflate and then deflate them again?

My thoughts on mounting tires. 
I have stopped using soap to help mount or seat tires. It makes me wonder if the soap residue in between tire bead and rim could come back to be an issue. Can something that makes it easier to put the tire on make it easier for the tire to burp? Yes it is sometimes a little more difficult to mount without soap but it can be done.

I try to inflate the tire with no sealant first with a floor pump. If that fails then I go to a compressor. If the compressor is a struggle then I just put in a tube and let it sit inflated for a bit to shape the sidewall. Then usually it inflates much easier. Remove the core or pop one bead to put in the sealant.


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## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Has anyone tried or buy these ones:

29er Clincher MTB Carbon Rim 29inch Carbon Fiber Mountain Bicycle Rim | eBay

instead of the LB ones?


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## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Side note The web master or the forum admins need to fix these humongous tread since its so painful to try and navigate through it as the apache server keeps failing reloading the page or the script keeps crashing my browsers.

Thank you in advance.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Use an android app Tapatalk on a tablet insead of a regar web browser to navigate the forums and it helps a lot.


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## jbet (Nov 13, 2013)

Would like to ask anyone try out xiamen yoeleo AM rims? Friend of mine owned a 29er frame from them with full satisfaction.
May someone use the rims can tell how the rims performance?
Thanks in advance.
26 Bike Rims - Buy Carbon 26er Bike Rims With 30mm Width Yoeleo


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## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Trail_Blazer said:


> Use an android app Tapatalk on a tablet insead of a regar web browser to navigate the forums and it helps a lot.


Thank you it seems to work a lot better using tapatalk


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## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

jbet said:


> Would like to ask anyone try out xiamen yoeleo AM rims? Friend of mine owned a 29er frame from them with full satisfaction.
> May someone use the rims can tell how the rims performance?
> Thanks in advance.
> 26 Bike Rims - Buy Carbon 26er Bike Rims With 30mm Width Yoeleo


the description looks like it was stolen from LB (then run through a manglish filter). Yoeleo also has a "new process"?


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

I find it hard to believe that I could burp a 2.3 tire on a 33mm rim at 30 psi, especially with the insanely tight fitting tires. I'm no DH course riding hard charging ripper, just a normal 160 lb guy who likes to ride all-mtn type terrain somewhat fast. I also find it hard to believe that I could pinch flat twice in 2 rides on new tires and not feel it. Still a mystery. Only other theory is that my tire pressure gauge is way off, but I've been riding 20 years and the tires certainly feel hard enough... I'll be giving it a go again tomorrow on a patched tire at 35 psi in the rear... We'll see.

To answer your question about the inflate/deflate cycle. The bead would not fully seat at 60 psi. It was sealed but not snapped into place. I had to work it back and forth at lower psi to get it to finally slide up onto the rim shoulder. I also ended up using straight dish soap as lube and it fully seated at a much lower psi. Also of note is that when fully deflated or at very low psi, the bead on the WTB tire slides down off the rim bed. It stays sealed due to the tight fit, but does not stay seated. 

Anyways thanks all for the help. Hopefully I've just had really bad luck and if I can stay pinchflat free at 35 psi and gain confidence, I can start reducing back down to 30 or less.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

laksboy said:


> I find it hard to believe that I could burp a 2.3 tire on a 33mm rim at 30 psi, especially with the insanely tight fitting tires. I'm no DH course riding hard charging ripper, just a normal 160 lb guy who likes to ride all-mtn type terrain somewhat fast. I also find it hard to believe that I could pinch flat twice in 2 rides on new tires and not feel it. Still a mystery. Only other theory is that my tire pressure gauge is way off, but I've been riding 20 years and the tires certainly feel hard enough... I'll be giving it a go again tomorrow on a patched tire at 35 psi in the rear... We'll see.
> 
> To answer your question about the inflate/deflate cycle. The bead would not fully seat at 60 psi. It was sealed but not snapped into place. I had to work it back and forth at lower psi to get it to finally slide up onto the rim shoulder. I also ended up using straight dish soap as lube and it fully seated at a much lower psi. Also of note is that when fully deflated or at very low psi, the bead on the WTB tire slides down off the rim bed. It stays sealed due to the tight fit, but does not stay seated.
> 
> Anyways thanks all for the help. Hopefully I've just had really bad luck and if I can stay pinchflat free at 35 psi and gain confidence, I can start reducing back down to 30 or less.


Just to reiterate, if your bead isn't seating on these rims with 60 psi of pressure, then the tires are really not suitable. A tubeless ready tire from Maxxis or Schwalbe will inflate incredibly easy on them, in my experience.


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## dugt (May 26, 2012)

laksboy said:


> I find it hard to believe that I could burp a 2.3 tire on a 33mm rim at 30 psi, especially with the insanely tight fitting tires. I'm no DH course riding hard charging ripper, just a normal 160 lb guy who likes to ride all-mtn type terrain somewhat fast. I also find it hard to believe that I could pinch flat twice in 2 rides on new tires and not feel it. Still a mystery. Only other theory is that my tire pressure gauge is way off, but I've been riding 20 years and the tires certainly feel hard enough... I'll be giving it a go again tomorrow on a patched tire at 35 psi in the rear... We'll see.
> 
> To answer your question about the inflate/deflate cycle. The bead would not fully seat at 60 psi. It was sealed but not snapped into place. I had to work it back and forth at lower psi to get it to finally slide up onto the rim shoulder. I also ended up using straight dish soap as lube and it fully seated at a much lower psi. Also of note is that when fully deflated or at very low psi, the bead on the WTB tire slides down off the rim bed. It stays sealed due to the tight fit, but does not stay seated.
> 
> Anyways thanks all for the help. Hopefully I've just had really bad luck and if I can stay pinchflat free at 35 psi and gain confidence, I can start reducing back down to 30 or less.


You can't trust tires that don't fit right.


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## PeterQ520 (Nov 19, 2013)

*Iplay newest and special design hookless rims IP-HR925C*

Iplay newest and special design hookless rims IP-HR925C, as you could see from below geometry.

OD: 26mm
ID: 22mm

Weight: 420+/- 15g/piece

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterque520


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## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

*..?????*



PeterQ520 said:


> Iplay newest and special design hookless rims IP-HR925C, as you could see from below geometry.
> 
> Weight: 420+/- 15g/piece
> 
> ...


....???????


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Peter- are you guys ever going to come up with something original, or is coping the best you can do?


FYI, you list a 26mm OD but your picture shows a 30mm.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Peter- are you guys ever going to come up with something original, or is coping the best you can do?
> 
> FYI, you list a 26mm OD but your picture shows a 30mm.


I think it's 26mm at the top where the tire mounts, but 30mm at the widest point. Seems like a pointless design to me, I would rather have the widest section where the tire mounts.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

This is a stupid design. The wide part of the rims would tend to sustain more damage. But the bead seat is narrow.


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## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

This wss his reply to my inquires; 
"Hi There,

Thanks for your inquiry!

Yes, IP-HR925C rims are 29er rims. OD is 25.92mm, ID is 22mm

That means internal width is 22mm

The best price for IP-HR925C rims is 165 USD/piece, shipping by EMS for one pair will cost 50 USD, and 4% commission to PayPal will be charged

Please see the attached geometry and pictures

Best Regards,
Peter" 
So basically they are an exact copy or same as these ones,

http://www.light-bicycle.com/bead-hook-less-rims-carbon-29er-light-bike-rim-tubeless-compatible.html

The only difference is that LB already have a reputation in the MTBR community and appears to be the preferred vendor.

So I don't see how these guys will ever take a share of the market, 
.....?????

I did offer them to be the guinea pig to test and promote their product but they where not interested.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

Camaleon said:


> So basically they are an exact copy or same as these ones,
> 
> bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle
> 
> ...


In all fairness they are not the same profile as the LB rims. I think Peter is showing the other rim just for comparison. They might be near the same OD and ID dimension but they are not the same shape. Maybe its a stronger design being more rounded. I guess we will wait and see. I'm not wild about the round shape and I would buy my rims from LB again.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

bikeny said:


> I think it's 26mm at the top where the tire mounts, but 30mm at the widest point. Seems like a pointless design to me, I would rather have the widest section where the tire mounts.


But wait, I keep reading how there's no difference buying from these Chinese copiers and compaines that actual do R&D and know what the hell their doing. I mean, come on these are the same guys making the Rovals. They have to know how to engineer a rim.

yes, this is sarcasm.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Wtf is with the PayPal fee? It's not like they take any other forms of payment. Build it into your price you freaking halfwits.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

I thought PayPal is 3%?


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Tonggi said:


> I thought PayPal is 3%?


Light Bicycle does the same 4%. Paypal's standard fee is $.30 + 2.99%. There's an even lower fee for merchant accounts. LB is rounding it up as high as they can in good conscience to be sure never to lose a penny on paypal fees while scraping in a few extra bucks at the same time. The shipping is what really hurts. $50 for two rims. Makes it really hard to not settle for a pair of WTB i25 ($136 per pair) or Flows, Oozys, Blunts $200 per pair, no tax, no shipping, no paypal fee, no credit card fee.

lest you think I'm just anti-LB or anti-carbon, I own a set and am considering my second. I like the rims, but the economics is tough to swallow.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

I know LB does the same. It's just as stupid. Build it into your price like every other merchant on the planet or at least offer some other forms of payment.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

RTM said:


> Light Bicycle does the same 4%. Paypal's standard fee is $.30 + 2.99%. There's an even lower fee for merchant accounts. LB is rounding it up as high as they can in good conscience to be sure never to lose a penny on paypal fees while scraping in a few extra bucks at the same time. The shipping is what really hurts. $50 for two rims. Makes it really hard to not settle for a pair of WTB i25 ($136 per pair) or Flows, Oozys, Blunts $200 per pair, no tax, no shipping, no paypal fee, no credit card fee.
> 
> lest you think I'm just anti-LB or anti-carbon, I own a set and am considering my second. I like the rims, but the economics is tough to swallow.


I'm debating going lb wheels for my road bike. All mountain stumpy(2 sets trail and am) and 33 or wider dh rims for my dh rig. I hope to buy all at once and maybe save on shipping but the doubt in my mind is slowly disappearing since so many people have had great experience


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Do any of these companies make a hookless rim with UST-like ribbing/ridges to lock the bead in place?

A la American Classic 101?

Looking for a 30-35mm rim for my new Santa Cruz Tallboy LTC.


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## moonluv810 (Jul 10, 2013)

*Cracked LB Rim*

I bought this wheelset back in January of this year, had a warranty claim back in April due to nipple bulge....

I noticed some sealant splatters on the rear tire after the last ride, took it home, cleaned the bike up and to my horror.... I found a crack on the rear rim. I don't recall hitting anything harder than the usual stuff....

Running tubeless with 28psi rear...

The wheel still holds air, but I'm not riding it....


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Do any of these companies make a hookless rim with UST-like ribbing/ridges to lock the bead in place?
> 
> A la American Classic 101?
> 
> Looking for a 30-35mm rim for my new Santa Cruz Tallboy LTC.


Look at the Derby's.


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## cage (Jan 20, 2013)

moonluv810 said:


> I bought this wheelset back in January of this year, had a warranty claim back in April due to nipple bulge....
> 
> I noticed some sealant splatters on the rear tire after the last ride, took it home, cleaned the bike up and to my horror.... I found a crack on the rear rim. I don't recall hitting anything harder than the usual stuff....
> 
> ...


With those vertical marks on the side wall, you've probably just clipped a rock...unfortunate but it happens. :sad:


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I have similar damage on one of my rims, maybe not quite as bad. I put some thin super glue in it, clamped it together and I'm still riding it.


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## sjaakoo (Jun 17, 2008)

*28h?*

I am planning to order a wheelset from Light-Bicycle:
Hookless, 22mm ID with Novatec hubs.

Would 28H be strong enough for an 85 kg XC rider? No rocks, no drops.
How much weight will be saved compared to 32 H ?
Or should I go for 28H in front and 32H in the rear?


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## kikikuku (Jul 20, 2011)

*Actual carbon wheel weight.*





















I thought I'd give you and update on the actual weight of these rims.
Ordered in August - got the wheels in September, fast-reliable shipping.

27mm XC version light bicycle 29er wheel set with novatec hub 32H spoke front and back, 3K clear coating with matte. Total actual weight come out to ~1700gm. What do you think ? Has anyone get different number ?







<--here is my complete build, project weight is around 25lbs


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## kikikuku (Jul 20, 2011)

So to answer your question, if you are concern about weight by going 28H spoke then ...the different should be significantly small than the weight different between advertise and actual weight of the wheel set. I'd say go for 32H.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Anyone know what would be de difference between these two sellers (webpages). They seem to offer the exact same product but one is 20 dollars cheaper and more width options. Anyone purchased from carbonbicycle.cc?

Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) Light-Bicycle

wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible), outer width 30.00/27.40/24.13/35.00mm - carbon rim - Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mountain Bike, Carbon Road Bike, Carbon Handlebar

Cheers


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## GoldenDragoon (Apr 21, 2013)

Finally got my new LB wheelset which took quite a while to sort out and build. 1177g with the hookless 27mm rims. I chuck up photos when I can work out how to do it (dosen't seem to work with the phone). Looking forward to giving em a test run before the next XC race.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

GoldenDragoon said:


> Finally got my new LB wheelset which took quite a while to sort out and build. 1177g with the hookless 27mm rims. I chuck up photos when I can work out how to do it (dosen't seem to work with the phone). Looking forward to giving em a test run before the next XC race.


Could you give us a spec rundown when you post the pics please ?

This is the lightest 27mm hookless build I have seen.

Thanks

Fat Biker


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

My "69er" wheelset which has 32h CarbonBicycle's 27/33mm 26" front, 30/35mm 29er rear rims, WTB LaserDisc QR hubs and DT-Swiss Revolution 2.0/1.5 spokes with 12mm brass nipples weights very near to calculated 1553 grams.

Both wheels are awesome, front is good for AM and little heavier than rear. Hookless holds Thunder Burt tires so well that no worries to burp. Tires are way more controllable than with normal rims, just as expected. Very happy owner of this just shy 600 € set.

Sent from Lumia phone using Tapatalk


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

abelfonseca said:


> Anyone know what would be de difference between these two sellers (webpages). They seem to offer the exact same product but one is 20 dollars cheaper and more width options. Anyone purchased from carbonbicycle.cc?
> 
> Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible) Light-Bicycle
> 
> ...


carbon bicycle site seems to be a copy of the LB site which there have been from time to time. for the price difference I would go with LB. LB's website is not as organized as it could be so ask Nancy what width and whether you want hookless or not. I have bought the 27.5 in 35mm width and the 29er in 30mm width. The hookless has been great. I was concerned about tire retention but its been a non issue.


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## usn.mustanger (Jun 26, 2011)

OK, first let me throw out my disclaimer before I ask my question--I'm not being lazy, but since I'm currently deployed at sea on a US Navy ship, between our crappy bandwidth and long work days, I honestly don't have time to sift through all 256 pages here, nor conduct a thorough thread search for the answer (Advanced Search function keeps erroring out on me). I do appreciate y'alls bearing with me on this, as I'm sure this topic/question has been addressed elsewhere on these forums, I just don't have the resources or time to find it.

Anyways, my question: I'm looking at ordering LB rims for my C'dale Flash 2 29er. I'm going to order them now so I can have the wheels built as soon as I return from this endless deployment. My question is, for standard XC and trail riding on my C'dale hard tail, with occasional rooty tech stuff, would y'all recommend the RM29C02 (30mm outer, 23mm inner), the RM29C06 (27 outer, 22 inner), or RM29C07 (35mm outer, 30mm inner)? I do plan on going tubeless with this buildup.

Thanks in advance!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

How much do you weigh? I would recommend the 23 internal if you weigh 175 or less and 30 internal if you weigh more. Also, to consider is the 23 internal will turn in faster while the wider rims will be more stable. So depending on your preferences there you might adjust up or down on my weight recommendations. One other consideration is how adverse are you to damage. The wider rims have less tire outside the bead area and are very slightly more prone to a rock strike. Don't get the narrowest size no matter what.


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## usn.mustanger (Jun 26, 2011)

yourdaguy, thanks for the response. I weight 175, and given what you mention about rock strikes, I'm leaning towards the 23mm internal rim.
One question, though--there's only 1mm of difference between the narrow and middle-width rims. How much difference does 1mm make? Interesting that the big guy of the trio is a full 7mm bigger on the inner dimension. 1mm step up from narrow to medium, 7mm step up from medium to wide. Why?
Thanks again for the advice.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The cutoff has to be somewhere. The middle size is actually optimal for a range of sizes and 175 is what I think is about the cutoff where it is better to go bigger. The range of the smallest size is lower but much of it goes into a range that is so light they person would likely be on smaller wheels. Also, the resale is lower. Let's say the optimal range for the 23 internal size is 115 to 180. Let's say the narrower range is 90 to 150. See why I would totally stay away from the narrow ones. The 30 internal are probably best for 160 up. Since the sizes overlap if you are in the middle then other things like turn in and rock strikes and resale enter into the picture. And off of this is my opinion so when meltinfeather comes in and tells you I can't back up what I am saying he is correct, but he generally can't back up his stuff either.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Mustanger,

Thanks for your service to our country.

There is another rim which you haven't mentioned: a 30mm outer, 24mm inner hookless version which is not shown on the LB website. That is the rim I would recommend to you.

I'm not sure why LB doesn't list this model on the web -- I suspect that it was originally made for an OEM client and the contract prohibited them from doing so -- but they have been making it for months. Myself and many others on this thread have purchased them, and they are an excellent "middle" option between the lightest (27/22) and the widest (35/30).

They are 2mm wider than the 27/22, and they have 20% thicker sidewalls (3mm vs 2.5mm) so should prove more resilient to rock strikes, etc. 

The older design for 30mm (the hooked 30/23 model) are inferior to the hookless 30/24 in my opinion. I've owned both. The 30/24 hookless have been easier for tubeless tire mounting.

To order the 30/24 hookless, just send LB an email and ask them to send you an invoice. Then you can send a paypal payment citing the invoice.

Good luck with the rest of the deployment, hope it passes quickly.


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## usn.mustanger (Jun 26, 2011)

yourdaguy, thanks again, much appreciated!
InertiaMan, thanks for the kind words, and especially for the heads up on the "unpublished" rims. I think I'm sold on that one. I'll definitely be e-mailing LB soon!

As for the deployment, it's been a long time at sea (7 months so far), and a couple more months to go, so I've been off the trails for WAY too long now. I've got my road bike set up on a trainer, so between that and other workout routines, I'm staying in shape, but I am having some wicked mtb withdrawals. I'm ordering the rims before I get home so I can get the wheels built as soon as I get back so I can get back in the saddle. (My current front rim is so out of whack that it's not even rideable anymore--had a bad spill a couple of months before deployment.)

Related--would anyone be able to tell me what spoke length I'd need for building wheels with these LB rims and the stock Cannondale hubs? Yeah, I know I'll get recommendations to get new hubs, but the stock ones are fine for my use (for now), and new hubs just aren't in the budget at the moment.

Thanks again, fellas, much appreciated!


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

usn.mustanger said:


> would anyone be able to tell me what spoke length I'd need for building wheels with these LB rims and the stock Cannondale hubs? Yeah, I know I'll get recommendations to get new hubs, but the stock ones are fine for my use (for now), and new hubs just aren't in the budget at the moment.


You'll need to get the exact dimensions of the Cannondale hubs before you can determine spoke lengths. Getting dimensions for OEM hubs can sometimes be difficult, since they typically don't post that level of detail for the individual components. So you may need to physically measure them with a caliper.

EDIT: btw, the flange diameter (measured at spoke hole center) is by far the dominant factor in the calculation. Flange spacing, on the other hand, barely influences the calculation due to the geometric orientation.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

GoldenDragoon said:


> Finally got my new LB wheelset which took quite a while to sort out and build. 1177g with the hookless 27mm rims. I chuck up photos when I can work out how to do it (dosen't seem to work with the phone). Looking forward to giving em a test run before the next XC race.





Fat Biker said:


> Could you give us a spec rundown when you post the pics please ?
> This is the lightest 27mm hookless build I have seen.
> Thanks
> Fat Biker


I'd also like to see the spec. 1177g seems unlikely considering component weights. The math, with the generous assumption that this is a 27.5 wheelset rather than 29 and 28H rather than 32:
660g rims 
256g spokes (assumes CX-Ray)
17g nipples (assumes alloy)
330g hubs (assumes Tune King/Kong)
1273g Total

Even spending $400 on Superspokes will only reduce the weight 36g from my total above. Then assume you had LB do lighter rims (- 15g/rim). Still leaves you at 1207g.

Maybe if you used DT 180 rear hub and left the end caps off when weighing them. Or do 24 spoke wheels, which is arguably a stupid choice.

My personal opinion is that chasing weight loss past the point of diminishing returns is foolish, but to each his own.


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## Barch (Oct 2, 2013)

Snipe said:


> carbon bicycle site seems to be a copy of the LB site which there have been from time to time. for the price difference I would go with LB. LB's website is not as organized as it could be so ask Nancy what width and whether you want hookless or not. I have bought the 27.5 in 35mm width and the 29er in 30mm width. The hookless has been great. I was concerned about tire retention but its been a non issue.


Which width do you like the best? I have both a 27.5 and a 29er. I would like to upgrade to carbon rims. Nancy is advising to buy the 35mm. I ride with a 140mm travel, 2.4 on the front and 2.2 on the back. I weigh 185 lbs and ride single tract with a lot of climbing and some technical downhill, but I do not jump or do tricks.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

Barch said:


> Which width do you like the best? I have both a 27.5 and a 29er. I would like to upgrade to carbon rims. Nancy is advising to buy the 35mm. I ride with a 140mm travel, 2.4 on the front and 2.2 on the back. I weigh 185 lbs and ride single tract with a lot of climbing and some technical downhill, but I do not jump or do tricks.


I like them both but my two bikes are completely different. My 27.5 is a Bronson which I use for all mountain technical riding and I wanted larger volume and lower pressure so the 35mm fit the bill. The 29er is a 100mm travel race oriented Tallboy so I went with 30mm. I might have gotten the 27 but again I thought the extra volume would be worth the extra grams. I think the 35 on the Tallboy would be overkill for what I use it for. 32 spoke f/r, and I weigh 175 all dressed. If weight is no concern then the 35 is a nice rim but its big. Both are hookless and I wouldn't buy the hooked version. The quality of the rims is great, no issues with LB.


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## drdre (Dec 15, 2005)

If youd like youre 2.2 tires to feel like 2.3s then the 35mm rim is the ticket. Basically any tire you mount on them will benefit from increased basically everything. Its kind of eye opening. My aedent 2.25 went from ok ill deal till they wear to pretty good on 35.

Its just a bit more weight so unless youre truly racing all the time and think those few grams will make a difference then go big.


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## Barch (Oct 2, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> Mustanger,
> 
> Thanks for your service to our country.
> 
> ...


I just received an email from Nancy at Light-Bicycle re the above. You are correct. There are two 30 mm OD rims with the #29C02. The hookless has an ID of 24 mm. The hooked has an ID of 23 mm.

In lieu of this option, I would be interested in your opinion as to which rim would be best for me, the 30/24 or the 35/30. I have both a 29er and a 27.5. They both have 140mm travel and 2.4 on the front and 2.2 on the back. I weigh 190 lbs with pack. I ride in mountainous areas almost entirely on single tract. Much of it is quite narrow and rocky. I do a lot of climbing and descending, some fairly technical. I do not race, jump or do tricks.

Thanks


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

My experience with the Novatec 772 hub that came on my light-bicycles wheel set has not been positive. About 3 months and 1000 miles of use. The ratchet ring exploded. I'm 160 lbs, ride XC, and don't have a history of breaking things. Multiple contact attempts with both Novatec and Light-Bicycle in the last week have been ignored so far.

Luckily, the spoke lengths match what I needed to rebuild around a Hope hub, so that's what I did. The rims are fine, but the lack of quality in the hub, and the lack of support from Novatec and lb are disappointing.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Not trying to rub salt in the wound, but that's what happens when you let price dictate what you buy.

If you had done a search on Novatec hubs, you'd see you're not the only one.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

not that i've done any in-depth research, but from the casual reading i've done on novatec hubs it seems that they have some good ones and some bads ones. not true? are they all a bit weak?


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

I didn't expect them to be super high quality. I'd even verified that the spoke lengths would work with Hope prior to ordering just in case something like this happened. I did expect them to last longer than the tire, though.


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## GoldenDragoon (Apr 21, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> I'd also like to see the spec. 1177g seems unlikely considering component weights. The math, with the generous assumption that this is a 27.5 wheelset rather than 29 and 28H rather than 32:
> 660g rims
> 256g spokes (assumes CX-Ray)
> 17g nipples (assumes alloy)
> ...


This wheelset was built purley for XC racing only so weight was the goal. I will u/l some pics when I can get it to work. Build is LB 27mm hookless rims, Extralite Hyper 2 front hub with Hyper Camber rear, Pillar X-tra lite ti spokes (32 f/r) and the matching alloy nips.

I don't expect them to be the stiffest wheels around but climbing is my current weakness and weight makes a big difference here. As I progress in performance I will look at changing the spokes to something stronger if stiffness becomes an issue or I start breaking them.

Total bike weight should be 7.8-7.9kg now.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

Just wanted to note that National Holidays in PRC are Oct. 1 - 7 this year. They're taking deserved time off. I hope they'll be in touch with you soon.

Also, my correspondence with LB has always been timely. I bought a set of 23mm inner width rims a year ago, and recently one delaminated/cracked; they warrantied it, and let me upgrade to the 30mm inner width hookless rim, paying the $15 difference and shipping. That was their stated policy, and was completely fair.


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## Barch (Oct 2, 2013)

Collins said:


> Just wanted to note that National Holidays in PRC are Oct. 1 - 7 this year. They're taking deserved time off. I hope they'll be in touch with you soon.
> 
> Also, my correspondence with LB has always been timely. I bought a set of 23mm inner width rims a year ago, and recently one delaminated/cracked; they warrantied it, and let me upgrade to the 30mm inner width hookless rim, paying the $15 difference and shipping. That was their stated policy, and was completely fair.


Which rim do you like the best?


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

kikikuku said:


> I thought I'd give you and update on the actual weight of these rims.
> Ordered in August - got the wheels in September, fast-reliable shipping.
> 
> 27mm XC version light bicycle 29er wheel set with novatec hub 32H spoke front and back, 3K clear coating with matte. Total actual weight come out to ~1700gm. What do you think ? Has anyone get different number ?
> ...


Are those the build the claim has a weight of 1445 they sell here?

beadless carbon 29er XC light weight mtb tubeless wheelset hand-built 27mm wide Light-Bicycle

Seems really high compared to the claimed weight.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

sclyde2 said:


> not that i've done any in-depth research, but from the casual reading i've done on novatec hubs it seems that they have some good ones and some bads ones. not true? are they all a bit weak?


I have a set of Novatech hubs and will be buying a second. That said it on my son's 24 inch bike and will be for my daughters 24 inch wheel build, no way I'd run them on my bike.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

@barch
Haven't built the i-30mm yet. Though, I really like the stiffness/lightness of the i-23mm, and I like wide rims, so I expect good things. We'll see. 

I was hesitant to add weight to the rim, loosing some of the fast spin-up of the lighter rim, but I'm not sweating it.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Anybody have experience with Yishun pre-built wheels? 27.5 hookless 35 wide rims and Novatech hubs. Pillar PSR X-TRA1420 4.3g/pc spokes. 12 x 142 XD driver hub. Less than $700 shipped. Good deal? I know some of the Novatech hubs are suspect, is there a certain model to avoid? Thanks for any opinions....

I know the link shows 30 wide and hooked... 27.5er XXR650-30 Pro Striaght Pull Carbon MTb Wheels cross country/all mountain for $779.00 in Carbon Pro XXR Series - Wheels - MTB


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Has anyone had any luck getting Maxxis Ikon's set up tube less on the LB 27 mm exterior bead hook less rim's ?
I got my Specialized Renegades and Captains to air up with a floor pump with soapy water many time's but after trying a floor pump on the Ikon's I finally went to the gas station and tried their tire pump but it wasn't really that strong.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

I had a very hard time setting up exo IKON's on the 27mm rims. I had to run 3 layers of tape and tinker with the air compressor to get the tires to set up. I recently switched to the tubeless ready IKON's and they are a much better combo. I'm back to one layer of tape an no issues with set up.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Thank's my buddy brought his compressor over and we still couldn't get them aired up.
I didn't have enough Stan's tape to add another layer so I took the Roval plastic rim strips and put them on and we got them to air up still had to use soapy water thou.
I blew it because I bought the eXC/3C/EXO max speed folding and not the 3C / EXO/TR didn't realize until my buddy brought it up I payed $57.95 each and could of got the TR for $63.20 each instead. 
I know now when I buy the next set.
Got to dark so I have to wait till after work in the morning to go get a ride on them.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

I'm running 29 x 2.35 Ikons exo non-TR front and rear on 27/22 hookless LB rims with one layer of tape. I've always had to use compressed air to seat them (CO2 cartridge), but then they work ok. A couple times after a month or two I've come back the day after riding to find one totally deflated and unseated. I've just added sealant and reseated when this happens, but it is a little bothersome.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk


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## slsl123 (Sep 15, 2004)

I've got a set of the "old process" hooked 30mm wide LB rims. I use the tire lever trick to mount tires tubeless. No soap/water/compressor needed. Not sure if it will work with hookless rims but I wanted to share the link anyway. I used to struggle with the compressor/soap method too.

Tuesday Tips ? Install tubeless with a floor pump | Macky Franklin

I find it worked a little easier if the tire is seated with a tube
first - then just remove the tube, install a valve stem, and you only
have to reseat one side.

One other thing: anyone have any luck repairing these rims? Mine took a rock hit in the sidewall earlier this summer and the crack is now spreading.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Superglue and a clamp......
.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

The non-Tubeless ready IKONs I had were such a loose fit on the 27mm rim that the bead would drop back down in the channel if there wasn't any pressure, so all of the tricks of using tubes and seating half the tire with a tire lever didn't work. I also wasn't comfortable riding tires that fit that loose. Running multiple layers of gorilla tape built the rim bed up enough to make the tire set up, but still required seating one side by hand, removing the valve core, and using an air compressor to set up (thought I use the compressor all the time since it's so much easier).

The tubeless ready are a much tighter fit. So tight that I had to remove the gorilla tape and go with a single layer of Stan's-like tape to get the bead to pop into place at a reasonable pressure. There would be no issue setting those up with a decent floor pump.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Hey all, a little help cause I'm lost. 

I have an AM set that I'm using for.... well.... All mountain. I spend about half my time in the park doing drops and jumps. The rest of the time I'm doing 15-30 mile XC rides, but the XC does include some rocky and rooty trails at speed. 

Current wheelset is 2100+ grams, 27.5

I'm of two minds. 

A: Would be a 'one wheelset' meaning a beefier carbon rim and hope pro2 hub that would be (hopefully) lighter than what I have now.

B: Would be keeping the heavier stock wheelset for the park and going with a lighter XC/AM style build. 

I'm close to 180 all geared up for an XC ride. Any suggestions for A or B? I admit that I'm lost with the options. I know I'd probably want a wider rim, but hookless or no? I run tubeless and am not gentle pointed downhill.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

big_slacker said:


> Hey all, a little help cause I'm lost.
> 
> I have an AM set that I'm using for.... well.... All mountain. I spend about half my time in the park doing drops and jumps. The rest of the time I'm doing 15-30 mile XC rides, but the XC does include some rocky and rooty trails at speed.
> 
> ...


I'm 200 not geared I have a one setup using 29er Derby and it's still a lot lighter than what you have. I'd say just spend what you can and get one wheel set that can handle both. Even the 'AM' rims in carbon are going to built much lighter wheels than what you have currently and be able to handle park riding.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

^^ Thanks for the input. What are your thoughts on rim sizing?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

big_slacker said:


> ^^ Thanks for the input. What are your thoughts on rim sizing?


I like the 29mm on my Derbys.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Delete.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Edited due the quoted part being edited


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

:thumbsup:


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Edit : Thank You Hookiebrett . :thumbsup:


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

In other news... My carbon wheels are wonderful to ride. The steering precision that they have added to the XC 29er is amazing. I am riding harder and faster (and have wrecked because of it... Nursing stitches in my elbow at the moment).

The bike practically accelerates on its own!


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## Ramborage (May 7, 2013)

Anyone have one of these go out of true? What about checking spoke tension? Been riding mine for almost two months now and have had no problems yet. Do I need to take it to a shop to check spoke tension every once in a while?


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

You can check them by "feel" or sound. That will give you an idea of relative (to each other) spoke tension.

Even feel/sound is what you're going for. Even tension is more important than them holding an exact tension (which is why mfg's spec a spoke tension range).


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

I'm looking at buying a set for my Trek Superfly 100, but I'm new at this and this would be my first set of aftermarket wheels on a mtb. I'm about 210lbs without any gear, I ride a lot of rocks and roots here in RI and CT, and I seem to be tough on wheels. The Bontrager Mustang wheels that came on my bike go out of true almost every ride, I'm not hitting big jumps or drops, just the occasional log and the always present rocks. I want this to be a one and done purchase and for it to be something I could get replacement parts for if needed (bearings, spokes and nipples). What do you guys suggest?


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## Ramborage (May 7, 2013)

I came from those mustang wheels and yes they are crap. Always out of true or breaking spokes. The light bicycle wheels are so much nicer.


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## lunna (Mar 12, 2008)

.
.
has anyone researched or found 
which Chinese carbon rim supplier offers the lightest rims ?

when i read the weight specs listed of rims by different vendors. 
i see a quoted /claimed weight 
followed by a +/- of 40 grams or more off this declared rim weight.

i want to find a 29 x 23mm wide clincher rim pair
with very low gram weight


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

You'd have better luck with AL rims with those specs. Most of these companies don't make "MTB" rims that narrow anymore. 

Alternately, road rims might be readily available in that size.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

yzedf said:


> I'm looking at buying a set for my Trek Superfly 100, but I'm new at this and this would be my first set of aftermarket wheels on a mtb. I'm about 210lbs without any gear, I ride a lot of rocks and roots here in RI and CT, and I seem to be tough on wheels. The Bontrager Mustang wheels that came on my bike go out of true almost every ride, I'm not hitting big jumps or drops, just the occasional log and the always present rocks. I want this to be a one and done purchase and for it to be something I could get replacement parts for if needed (bearings, spokes and nipples). What do you guys suggest?


Making a broad assumption on your riding style based on superfly 100. I'm also from the northeast. even fairly aggressive XC shouldn't pose much of a threat to the rims if you keep your pressure around 30. You'll be ok with the 380 gram "all mountain" version. If you've never tried carbon rims you are in for a treat. Likewise, if you've never built wheels, do it. It's fun, easy (with the help of roger musson's brilliant book and site) and very satisfying.


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## kikikuku (Jul 20, 2011)

Brought the 29er 27mm 135x10 rear wheels with novatec hub xc version in september. Rider is 145lbs xc style non drop, simple trail riding in Texas. After about 10 rides, less than 100 miles. Today, i sadly detect a 1cm crack, and palpable as I run my fingers through them. Im sad that this carbon doesnt stand up to its quality. Anyone has input about return/replacement policy? Whats the process here?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

kikikuku said:


> Brought the 29er 27mm 135x10 rear wheels with novatec hub xc version in september. Rider is 145lbs xc style non drop, simple trail riding in Texas. After about 10 rides, less than 100 miles. Today, i sadly detect a 1cm crack, and palpable as I run my fingers through them. Im sad that this carbon doesnt stand up to its quality. Anyone has input about return/replacement policy? Whats the process here?


Most people would contact the place they bough it from. Have you?

You haven't even mentioned where you got it from. Am I right to assume Light Bicycle?


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## kikikuku (Jul 20, 2011)

Yes, i brought from Light Bicycle in late August, and built the bike in September 14. I sent an email to Caroline from light bicycle via ebay, cuz that how brought the product. Im hoping for a resolution here.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

The best resolution is found with LB. If they don't resolve it in a timely or otherwise acceptable manner, let us know on here then.

In the meantime, I do remember a few stories in this thread (and maybe a few other similar ones elsewhere on mtbr) about the way LB handled warranty claims. maybe you should have a search for those, so you can get an idea what to expect.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

@yzedf -- Sounds like your Mustangs weren't built correctly, as is typical. Take them to a good shop, and have them up the spoke tension properly. Not the lightest rims, but I've seen those ridden hard, and stay true. 

Unfortunately, bike stuff is rarely "one and done", but a well-built set of wheels should stay true for a good while, and I think this is even more true for carbon rims (which don't bend... but will crack if bashed). Considering your weight, if you keep your psi around 30, you should be okay. Really though, if you're looking for something to not worry about, a heavy-duty set of alu wheels is most reliable: WTB i25 or I9 Enduro (or Stan's Flows, if you like Stan).


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

I have been having a hell of a time finding spokes for my build. I need straight pull spokes in black 298mm and was looking for CX-Rays or Aerolites. No one has them in stock. Not even the distributors. Anyone know where I can find some?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> I have been having a hell of a time finding spokes for my build. I need straight pull spokes in black 298mm and was looking for CX-Rays or Aerolites. No one has them in stock. Not even the distributors. Anyone know where I can find some?


Did you try ThorUSA.com? I know they'll cut spokes to length if you're only after a "few" (ie, one or two wheels worth max). But they may not be able to cut and roll the aero spokes. They will do Sapim Race or Laser though. Thor is the best source I've found for straight pull spokes.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Yes I tried them. Call ed the Sapim importer and was told that Thorusa would have them in stock. Ordered them only to get an email a week later saying they didn't have them.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Yes I tried them. Call ed the Sapim importer and was told that Thorusa would have them in stock. Ordered them only to get an email a week later saying they didn't have them.


Aerolite straightpull 298mm in stock:
DT Swiss Aerolite StraightPull 298mm Black Spokes Box of 20 - AEBike.com


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## Justintackitt (Oct 18, 2014)

Can someone give me some help on choosing some carbon wheels? I currently have sun ringle inferno 23 and would like to get a wheel set that is close to the same width as these. I found that these have a 23mm outside width and an 18mm section height. I have been to light bikes web site and only found the narrowest was 27mm. I don't like the fat tire look. Also I don't plan on going tubeless and I run geax barro race 29x2.0 tires, I am confused on if I should do hookless or clincher? What are my sun ringle rims considered? Sorry for the rookie questions, and any help would be great.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Justintackitt said:


> Can someone give me some help on choosing some carbon wheels? I currently have sun ringle inferno 23 and would like to get a wheel set that is close to the same width as these. I found that these have a 23mm outside width and an 18mm section height. I have been to light bikes web site and only found the narrowest was 27mm. I don't like the fat tire look. Also I don't plan on going tubeless and I run geax barro race 29x2.0 tires, I am confused on if I should do hookless or clincher? What are my sun ringle rims considered? Sorry for the rookie questions, and any help would be great.


Yours aren't hookless. Going wider would add volume to your existing tires. It would add climbing and cornering traction. It would give more sidewall support and cut down on washouts. More volume means more comfort and lower psi.
Ask Pinkbike: Rim Width, Angle Headsets, and Carbon Cranks - Pinkbike
I ride hookless 35/30mm from Carbonbicycle.cc.

When you see your tires on the rims they look normal. The old mount will look odd.


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## Justintackitt (Oct 18, 2014)

Thank you for the information!


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## Justintackitt (Oct 18, 2014)

So if I choose the beadless 27mm, I will be able to use my existing tires and tubes without a problem?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Justintackitt said:


> So if I choose the beadless 27mm, I will be able to use my existing tires and tubes without a problem?


Yes. Unless you consider better tire performance a problem.


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## Justintackitt (Oct 18, 2014)

I know tubeless would offer better performance, I was just wondering if my geax barro race/tube set up would work on a beadless rim. Thanks for the info!


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Yes I tried them. Call ed the Sapim importer and was told that Thorusa would have them in stock. Ordered them only to get an email a week later saying they didn't have them.


For my last wheel build I 'rolled my own' with the Hozan C700 tool, to great effect. With the handheld drill mod (replacing the hand winder), it took very little time to complete.

If you can get a near oversize spoke, thread adjustment is an easy option.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Justintackitt said:


> I know tubeless would offer better performance, I was just wondering if my geax barro race/tube set up would work on a beadless rim. Thanks for the info!


Your tires with or without tubes will perform better in every way on the 35/30 rims than on the 27s. Other similar options from Maxxis, Schwalbe, Bontrager, Continental and Spec will also be better.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

eb1888 said:


> Your tires with or without tubes will perform better in every way on the 35/30 rims than on the 27s. Other similar options from Maxxis, Schwalbe, Bontrager, Continental and Spec will also be better.


That is a blanket statement that my experience does not support. I find that 2.0" tires on 30mm+ rims to handle sluggishly, wander more and not turn in well, and the sidewalls are more exposed to damage.


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## Scottandhisdog (Feb 27, 2005)

Why anyone would want a ride a 2.0" tire is beyond me. A 2.3" tire is as narrow as I'd go on a 30mm internal width rim regardless of tubeage.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I agree with shaggy on this one. Narrow tires on wide rims have a horrible profile. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

You guys may be and probably are right on some of the 2.0 versions. My statement is overly broad.
Twentynineinches used the 2.1 Schwalbe Thunder Burts on Wide Lightnings(29.4) with very good results. A new 2.25 version is out.
From their review--
" So after my own experimenting, I can confirm what Grannygear said: The very generous inner width of the rims of 29.4mm has had a positive effect on every single set of tires I tried. In my case the level of traction and comfort, even with the super narrow 2.1" XC tires, was nothing short of amazing in combination with the extra wide AC rims."
and...
" So for me the basic truth is that wide rims like the AC Wide Lightnings are pretty much a win-win situation for whatever tire you are using."
American Classic Wide Lightning 29"er Wheels: Final Review

Many of those skinnies come in 2.2 or 2.25 which will be the logical choice I would make with the same fast tread pattern once you have the wider rims. I am using Bontrager XR1 Teams 2.2s and the benefits of more traction, compliance and less washouts with fast rollers. I ain't going back to a skinny rim. Money on 27s is wasted.


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## Skelldify (May 10, 2013)

Heh, can anyone summarize the last 6,400 posts on this topic? Mainly along the lines of durability of the LightBicycle carbon rims, and if the warranty has covered any problems? Maybe there are even enough people who've bought them and posted that we can get a percentage of how many people are satisfied with them?

I know it's asking a lot.... thanks!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Skelldify said:


> Heh, can anyone summarize the last 6,400 posts on this topic? Mainly along the lines of durability of the LightBicycle carbon rims, and if the warranty has covered any problems? Maybe there are even enough people who've bought them and posted that *we* can get a percentage of how many people are satisfied with them?
> 
> I know it's asking a lot.... thanks!


Lets be honest, based on your post that 'we' is basically someone else do the work and post the numbers.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Skelldify said:


> Heh, can anyone summarize the last 6,400 posts on this topic? Mainly along the lines of durability of the LightBicycle carbon rims, and if the warranty has covered any problems? Maybe there are even enough people who've bought them and posted that we can get a percentage of how many people are satisfied with them?
> 
> I know it's asking a lot.... thanks!


How about you figure it out and post up the percentage?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

yeah Skelldify, could you do this for us?

thanks!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Skelldify said:


> Heh, can anyone summarize the last 6,400 posts on this topic? Mainly along the lines of durability of the LightBicycle carbon rims, and if the warranty has covered any problems? Maybe there are even enough people who've bought them and posted that we can get a percentage of how many people are satisfied with them?
> 
> I know it's asking a lot.... thanks!


The product has evolved and improved to hookless and 35/30mm wide. 
You can get a better price ordering from Carbonbicycle.cc
Whether you break it is dependent on your terrain, weight and style.
A manufacturing defect is less likely.
$1500 for the Spec Traverse SL Fattie or an Ibis set will get you better care for more money.


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## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

Summary: never going back to aluminium.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Scottandhisdog said:


> Why anyone would want a ride a 2.0" tire is beyond me.


Mud.


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## Montanadan (Sep 19, 2014)

Jwiffle said:


> I do build wheels (well, I've built about a dozen). And none of the sources I ever used when learning to build wheels (Brandt's book, Brown's site, fellow mechanics) ever mentioned "tow alignment."
> 
> I believe what he is referring to is that he doesn't trust a "cheap" carbon wheel but didn't have any reason to not to, so made something up, seeing as the term is just made up. I even did a quick google search, and the only thing I could come up with is the toe alignment of an automobile's wheels.


lol...I was wondering the same thing. The only "toe alignment" related to bicycles I could find is regarding rim brakes and the alignment of the pads in relation to the rim face. Sorry...this is in reference to an old post on this thread.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

Montanadan said:


> lol...I was wondering the same thing. The only "toe alignment" related to bicycles I could find is regarding rim brakes and the alignment of the pads in relation to the rim face. Sorry...this is in reference to an old post on this thread.


You could have read two posts further down to see his explanation. http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/cheap-chinese-carbon-rims-673410-2.html#post8913893


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## Montanadan (Sep 19, 2014)

will do SandSpur...thanks.


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## Montanadan (Sep 19, 2014)

rocwandrer said:


> Yup! I just made it up because I don't know what I'm talking about!!!! Not need to read any further in this crap I write. Or perhaps i didn't make it up and I've worked as a composites process engineer in one of the county's foremost composites research labs, but, like most engineers, "don't English real well"?
> 
> Sorry I didn't see the question sooner, or make my comment more easy to understand in the first place.
> 
> ...


Found it, and I stand corrected. The poster could have explained a bit better to avoid the confusion though. How many of us are that intimate with the manufacture of composites? Wonderful detail in his reply though, and some very interesting info there.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2014)

...


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## Couloirman (Sep 17, 2010)

Anyone tried the deep U-shaped rims from light-bicycle? I need a new set of rims for century+ gravel racing with 35mm tires and am wondering if with a tire that wide will I lose all benefit of the deep aero rim and am I better off just getting a standard shape light carbon rim that is ~100g lighter each rim? The 45mm deep U-shaped rims are about 450g, but if I get the standard carbon layup it'll be around 350g which is kind of a lot of rotational weight out there. Which would be faster over the course of a long day in the saddle on rolling hill terrain with lots of flats in between? How much help is a deep aero rim if you're throwing on a 35mm wide tire? Normally for road bikes I feel aero wins over weight, but not so sure anymore with wider cross type tires


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Couloirman said:


> racing with 35mm tires and am wondering if with a tire that wide will I lose all benefit of the deep aero rim


Yes


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Henrik83 said:


> Thought I saw someone posting the actual weight a couple of days ago, but can't seem to find it now. I don't remember if he had Novatech or Hope, but my mind tells me he wrote 1780gr with one layer of Stans Yellow.
> 
> What is the actual weight for a pair of 35/30 with Hope 15/135, 12/142 & Pillar spokes and alu. nipples? Due to Swedish taxes the Fattie SL's aren't that much more expensive, can't decide wich way to go..


The DT 350 hubs with star ratchets in the rear used in the Fattie SLs are enough to sway me when the price is close even not considering the better warranty history Spec offers.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Collins said:


> @yzedf -- Sounds like your Mustangs weren't built correctly, as is typical. Take them to a good shop, and have them up the spoke tension properly. Not the lightest rims, but I've seen those ridden hard, and stay true.
> 
> Unfortunately, bike stuff is rarely "one and done", but a well-built set of wheels should stay true for a good while, and I think this is even more true for carbon rims (which don't bend... but will crack if bashed). Considering your weight, if you keep your psi around 30, you should be okay. Really though, if you're looking for something to not worry about, a heavy-duty set of alu wheels is most reliable: WTB i25 or I9 Enduro (or Stan's Flows, if you like Stan).


Second that. Mustangs are good stiff light strong rims... at least the Disc Brake ones. I had some disc brake ones on my 26er, and they were pretty dang bulletproof. I built up some rim brake ones for my 29er with high sidewalls, and I had to run really high pressure in the tires to keep form pinch flatting the tire/tube, so that didn't work out so well. I moved that wheelset to my dirt touring bike where I run higher pressure anyway.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

...


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## campergf23 (Aug 4, 2013)

I'd go with the lb rims and the 240 hubs. Lb rims are fine an the 240 hubs are great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Henrik83 said:


> Right now my mind is going in the same direction. Due to Swedish customs and taxes the LB 35/30's with Hope are about $1275.
> Rims from LB, but buying my own DT 240s hubs (from Germany) and let someone build them for me are roughly the same price. This could be an option..
> 
> The Fatties are $1950 @ the LBS but have some advantages I do like,
> ...


I would find $700 too much of a difference for me. Add more savings from doing the build myself because it is actually easy- the stiffness of the carbon rim is simplifying. Carbonbicycle.cc has the rims I use for an additional savings.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

fun123 said:


> the carbon rims seems good ,and what is the quality?


seek and you will find. The best way to search MTBR is via google. Type the following into a search engine, and goodness will happen...

site:forums.mtbr.com chinese carbon rim can you tell that I'm shilling?
site:forums.mtbr.com chinese carbon rim just drumming up business
site:forums.mtbr.com chinese carbon rim I want some free advertising
site:forums.mtbr.com chinese carbon rim my sales targets are SO high
site:forums.mtbr.com chinese carbon rim I should remove the web address of my business before I post


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

PuddleDuck said:


> seek and you will find. The best way to search MTBR is via google. Type the following into a search engine, and goodness will happen...
> 
> site:forums.mtbr.com chinese carbon rim can you tell that I'm shilling?
> site:forums.mtbr.com chinese carbon rim just drumming up business
> ...


based on his signature, he is probably a shill


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

SandSpur said:


> based on his signature, he is probably a shill


probably? Did you read the search terms I entered? I'd bet my left nut that he's shill.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

SandSpur said:


> based on his signature, he is probably a shill


Hi SS, did you read the search terms I entered? :thumbsup:

I'd bet my left nut that he's shill. He's got a lot to learn :eekster:


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

PuddleDuck said:


> Hi SS, did you read the search terms I entered? :thumbsup:
> 
> I'd bet my left nut that he's shill. He's got a lot to learn :eekster:


ha, i actually missed the fine text. good one


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## n1x0n (May 23, 2012)

I'm looking into either buy a new 30mm hookless wheelset from either carbonbicycle, light-bicycle or xmiplay. Xmiplay has DT swiss hubs to similiar price to hope hubs on LB and carbonbicycle but has another profile on rim according to drawings, looks Like a nice lightweight set. Seems like most people buying from LB at least in this thread.

Any pros/cons on this set??

2014 high-end DSS IP-HR930C carbon 29er hookless wheels with DT Swiss 240S hubs for XC/AM use-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

n1x0n said:


> Any pros/cons on this set??
> 
> 2014 high-end DSS IP-HR930C carbon 29er hookless wheels with DT Swiss 240S hubs for XC/AM use-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.


I would go with the 35/30mm rims in that wheel build. Ask if they can make it with the IP-HR935C rims.
IP-HR935C 35mm width hookless carbon MTB 29er rims, carbon mtb 29er tubeless rims-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

I am using that rim and DT hubs with a lot of performance benefits and wouldn't choose the 30mm rim.


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## n1x0n (May 23, 2012)

I haven't decided rim width yet since I'm mostly ride xc with 1.95-2.25 tires, but are curious about quality of wheel set built from iplay and also if this particular rim-model they are selling "IP-HR" 27,30,35 can compete with LB rims. Somebody mentioned thinner profile (2mm) don't know if this has any impact on riding or other cons ?



eb1888 said:


> I would go with the 35/30mm rims in that wheel build. Ask if they can make it with the IP-HR935C rims.
> IP-HR935C 35mm width hookless carbon MTB 29er rims, carbon mtb 29er tubeless rims-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
> 
> I am using that rim and DT hubs with a lot of performance benefits and wouldn't choose the 30mm rim.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

n1x0n said:


> I haven't decided rim width yet since I'm mostly ride xc with 1.95-2.25 tires, but are curious about quality of wheel set built from iplay and also if this particular rim-model they are selling "IP-HR" 27,30,35 can compete with LB rims. Somebody mentioned thinner profile (2mm) don't know if this has any impact on riding or other cons ?


I built my CB rims with Dt hubs and use light Bontrager XR1 Team 2.2 tires. Still fast rolling but more volume. The sidewall support from the width cuts down a lot on washouts. I get more climbing traction because I can use a lower psi. They are now high volume tires which adds comfort from the compliance. Everything is better.
The rim is stiff so it is easy to build with. That will make getting a quality wheelset likely.
The CB rim seems to have a .5mm lower hookless lip than the IP.


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

n1x0n said:


> I haven't decided rim width yet since I'm mostly ride xc with 1.95-2.25 tires, but are curious about quality of wheel set built from iplay and also if this particular rim-model they are selling "IP-HR" 27,30,35 can compete with LB rims. Somebody mentioned thinner profile (2mm) don't know if this has any impact on riding or other cons ?


My rims are Iplay 30mm hookless IP-HR930C, used more than 5 months, still strong and fast. Peter said their newer 27mm rims can do as well as 30mm rims, strong enough for XC . 
This guy has same wheels like mine: Barn Burner 2014 - Leadville Race Series - Flagstaff, AZ


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## n1x0n (May 23, 2012)

@Bikrider Thanks for input  I might go with either 30mm or 27mm, leaning against 30mm. I'm an 200lb rider equipped, does this rim has any weight limit ?



Bikrider said:


> My rims are Iplay 30mm hookless IP-HR930C, used more than 5 months, still strong and fast. Peter said their newer 27mm rims can do as well as 30mm rims, strong enough for XC .
> This guy has same wheels like mine: Barn Burner 2014 - Leadville Race Series - Flagstaff, AZ


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## Ray Knight (May 5, 2014)

n1x0n said:


> @Bikrider Thanks for input  I might go with either 30mm or 27mm, leaning against 30mm. I'm an 200lb rider equipped, does this rim has any weight limit ?


Any interest in these 29" carbon wheels? I'm 240# and had zero issues with them. I swapped wheels to run a 15mm thru axle setup so i just have these hanging in my shop. Like new.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Here's a review on Pinkbike about wide rims. In this case it would be the 35/30mm rims offered by several sources.
265 lb limit.
Ask Pinkbike: Rim Width, Angle Headsets, and Carbon Cranks - Pinkbike

"I'm tempted to tell you that a wider rim is always better, but it isn't quite that simple as tire consideration needs to come into play when you get into these new mega-wide rims like Ibis' carbon 741 (35mm internal) or Specialized's carbon Fattie SL (30mm internal) and aluminum Fattie (29mm internal). How so? If you take a tire with a square profile, such as Maxxis' High Roller, and put it on an extremely wide rim, it will exaggerate that square profile to the point where it won't work as intended. That said, your DHFs have a rounder profile to them than the High Roller so they'll will work well with whatever wide rim you decide to go with, and I was quite happy with that exact setup when I tested the Ibis 741 wheelset back in June. Have these wide rims gone too far? Having spent time on them, I don't believe so. I'm confident that we'll see more and more wide rims on the market within the next year or two, simply because the benefits can't be ignored. More traction, better reliability through less burping and more tire support, and some riders can even get away with a lighter, less aggressive tire due to how a wide rim can add a few millimeters of width to the rubber. "

So think seriously about spending your money on skinny rims. 
They could be hanging up in your garage in a year.... or sooner.


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## ErikGBL (Mar 26, 2008)

*ERD on the Light Bicycles 30mm hookless 29er rims?*

I am going to buy spokes for these rims and will like to know what ERD to put into my (DT Swiss) spoke calculator. Last time I built wheels on LB rims (30 mm with hooks) I used an ERD of 603 mm without measuring them. I do not remember where I got that number from. This time I have measured myself and I got an ERD of almost 606 mm! It is hard to believe that they are 3 mm larger. Have anyone else measured these rims? What ERD are you wheel builders using?

The Light Bicycle homepage they says the ERD is 600 mm! They must use a non-standard definition.


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

n1x0n said:


> @Bikrider Thanks for input  I might go with either 30mm or 27mm, leaning against 30mm. I'm an 200lb rider equipped, does this rim has any weight limit ?


 Yes, Peter told me 130kg on 30mm rims


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

ErikGBL said:


> I am going to buy spokes for these rims and will like to know what ERD to put into my (DT Swiss) spoke calculator. Last time I built wheels on LB rims (30 mm with hooks) I used an ERD of 603 mm without measuring them. I do not remember where I got that number from. This time I have measured myself and I got an ERD of almost 606 mm! It is hard to believe that they are 3 mm larger. Have anyone else measured these rims? What ERD are you wheel builders using?
> 
> The Light Bicycle homepage they says the ERD is 600 mm! They must use a non-standard definition.


Its been discussed repeatedly.. it doesnt matter where youre buying your rims.. always measure yourself and dont rely on manufacturer's (or distributors) stated "measurements"


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## cage (Jan 20, 2013)

SandSpur said:


> Its been discussed repeatedly.. it doesnt matter where youre buying your rims.. always measure yourself and dont rely on manufacturer's (or distributors) stated "measurements"


Read his post again...he has measured them. He's looking for confirmation from anyone else that it is 606mm.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Eb1888: Can you post pictures of your 35/30s with the 29-1s on them? 

Maybe a measurement, too?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Toff (Sep 11, 2004)

Anyone use the the Light Bicycles 27 mm rim (bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle) with Maxxis Ignitor and Crossmarks tubeless? They would be the non-UST tires, I just want to make sure there are no known problems before I purchase and build them up.

Anything special in the build up? I've never messed with carbon rims before.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

cage said:


> Read his post again...he has measured them. He's looking for confirmation from anyone else that it is 606mm.


right, and as was discussed... you may buy two rims from the same manufacturer, and get two different ERD measurements.... asking someone else to measure their rims is useless


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Toff said:


> Anyone use the the Light Bicycles 27 mm rim (bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle) with Maxxis Ignitor and Crossmarks tubeless? They would be the non-UST tires, I just want to make sure there are no known problems before I purchase and build them up.
> 
> Anything special in the build up? I've never messed with carbon rims before.


Can't comment on the specific tires but you may want to ask the question about those set up ghetto tubeless outside the carbon thread. AL rims would expose the same issues, if any. Nothing special in this regard for carbon.

Regarding special build procedures, can't think of any. I've built two sets. The added stiffness allows for some high spoke tensions and it is VERY easy to attain proper dish and balance. But yeah, if you build with care, these rims require no more special attention than any other build. Not that I can think of at least.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

SandSpur said:


> right, and as was discussed... you may buy two rims from the same manufacturer, and get two different ERD measurements.... asking someone else to measure their rims is useless


Bingo. I don't even trust manufacturers quoted ERD. Let alone some guy on the Internet. I'll measure my own thank you very much.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2014)

...


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## lunna (Mar 12, 2008)

*how wide of tubeless ready rims do i want ?*

.
for a 29er 
cross country , carbon rim , disc brake based hub , race wheel set..

.. i am 150 lbs


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

DT Revolutions or AeroLites will build the strongest wheel.

Alternately, Sapim Lazer or CX-Ray.

At the very least, get a double butted spoke.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I like the Sapim CX-Ray with Lilly nipples, no better nipples on the market. Hard to get!!


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Lilly nipples? tell me more.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Only available through custom wheel builders, CNC machined with 7075. The ano is done right. Lilly's Precision Products. Not much info about them!!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

There have been plenty of pics showing galvanic corrosion of aluminum nipples used in carbon builds. 
I used brass with a small weight penalty instead of relying on anodizing. 
These rims are easier to tension and true because of the stiffness. I think they make a good first build component when compared to an aluminum rim.


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## lunna (Mar 12, 2008)

.
i am unsure why half of my post above is missing. ^

i will retry to ask my question again.

how wide of a clincher tubeless ready rim do i want to use ?

for a 29er 
cross country , carbon rim , disc brake based hub , race wheel set..

.. i am 150 lbs[/QUOTE]


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

eb1888 said:


> These rims are easier to tension and true because of the stiffness. .


So true. I'm never building a wheel with an aluminum rim again.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

92gli said:


> So true. I'm never building a wheel with an aluminum rim again.


I don't think I'd go THAT far. Now, if you'd said AL nipples I'd totally agree. Brass is a much smarter choice.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

So my wheel came in, looks sweet, key word wheel. This whole time I was under the impression they were sold as a pair. Now I have one rim just sitting there. Not sure what to do. It would of. Een cheaper buying a complete set but I won't be able to use my sweet center lock rotors


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

So I thought about it and will keep the wheel. Will get a second wheel later when I will be riding the bike more. Which side should I put the carbon wheel on? I already bought the hubs and rotors (all center lock) so might as well have one built for the time being.

Which side do you guys think would benefit the most with a carbon rim, the front or rear?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Front. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The increased steering precision is most noticeable on the front. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Does anyone run these carbon rims from xmiplay

IP-RM930T carbon fiber 30mm width MTB 29er rims, carbon mtb 29er tubular rims -Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

These interest me being 30mm deep its just a shame they are only 30 wide as these in a 35 wide would be perfect.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

J273 said:


> Does anyone run these carbon rims from xmiplay
> 
> IP-RM930T carbon fiber 30mm width MTB 29er rims, carbon mtb 29er tubular rims -Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
> 
> These interest me being 30mm deep its just a shame they are only 30 wide as these in a 35 wide would be perfect.


Derbys meet your requirement.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

J273 said:


> Does anyone run these carbon rims from xmiplay
> 
> IP-RM930T carbon fiber 30mm width MTB 29er rims, carbon mtb 29er tubular rims -Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
> 
> These interest me being 30mm deep its just a shame they are only 30 wide as these in a 35 wide would be perfect.


Never seen any wider rim for tubolar tires...



TwoTone said:


> Derbys meet your requirement.


Derbys are not for tubolar.


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## evenflo (Apr 23, 2013)

J273 said:


> Does anyone run these carbon rims from xmiplay
> 
> IP-RM930T carbon fiber 30mm width MTB 29er rims, carbon mtb 29er tubular rims -Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
> 
> These interest me being 30mm deep its just a shame they are only 30 wide as these in a 35 wide would be perfect.


Not much point in making a tubular wider than 30mm, that I can see.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I have them. Built up to DT 240s, 32h 3x with CX Rays.

They are fantastic. Any wider than 30mm and you'd compromise the ability of the tubular tire. That is, the ability to run low pressure without constant rim hits. If you went wider, the rim would follow the tire UP the tire, and you'd get more rim strikes.

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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Oops my bad i didn't realise these were for tubular tyres. 

Im after hookless - id love some derbys but they are a bit too much for me. Im after some deep 30mm rim ideally 35mm wide.

Has anyone seen an alternative from light bike / xmiplay? The deepest i can see is 25.5 which i may go with as i can get them both shipped for less than one derby.

Thanks for the pics btw Le Duke - They look nice.


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## VQuick (May 14, 2013)

J273 said:


> Oops my bad i didn't realise these were for tubular tyres.
> 
> Im after hookless - id love some derbys but they are a bit too much for me. Im after some deep 30mm rim ideally 35mm wide.
> 
> Has anyone seen an alternative from light bike / xmiplay? The deepest i can see is 25.5 which i may go with as i can get them both shipped for less than one derby.


I bought some ultra wide Chinese carbon rims with very similar specs to the Derbys: 40 mm hookless (30 mm deep) made by Nextie Bike. They are newer than Light-Bicycle but seem to have a good track record so far. 2 year warranty is a plus as well. About $210 each (rims only) including shipping. Whole build with DT Swiss 350 and Competition spokes was about $940 all told. Have only ridden them once, and in the mud, but they felt great. Photos.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks very much - they look like what I'm after.

Think ill order a set - Are yours a 29er build or 650b? how many spoke holes did you go with?

Thanks


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## VQuick (May 14, 2013)

650b, 32 hole. Would not recommend 28. 32 makes more sense for durability, compatibility, ease of truing.

Here is a long Nextie thread in the fat bike forum if you're interested. Haven't seen a regular mtb thread. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=890669


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Another quick question - Wont be building these myself and a little unsure on what spoke hole diameter to go with out of the 3 options.

4.5 normal
2.3 for internal nipple
5.7 for atomlab torque nipple

Thanks


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## VQuick (May 14, 2013)

You want normal. Theoretically the smaller hole for internal nipples helps with carbon rim strength, but my understanding is they're more work to build and definitely more of a pain to true because you have to remove the tire every time you want to adjust the spoke tension.

Also, get the normal weight version--the lightweight version is not going to be as durable obviously--less material. The normal is plenty light.

If you have specific questions, e-mail Brian at the e-mail address listed on their contact page. He is very helpful.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

VQuick said:


> You want normal. Theoretically the smaller hole for internal nipples helps with carbon rim strength, but my understanding is they're more work to build and definitely more of a pain to true because you have to remove the tire every time you want to adjust the spoke tension.
> 
> Also, get the normal weight version--the lightweight version is not going to be as durable obviously--less material. The normal is plenty light.
> 
> If you have specific questions, e-mail Brian at the e-mail address listed on their contact page. He is very helpful.


Thanks very much.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Here's some pics of a Bontrager 2.2 XR1 on 35/30 and Wide Lightning rims. They look normal not wide.
And a 2.25 Nobby Nic on a 21mm inside dim ArchEx.
In a couple years 'wide' rims will be looking skinny. Just need the right tire profiles.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Carbon MTB Wheels | Do you need them? | Dirt

Interesting article and video. The chinese rims are featured.


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## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

*Light bicycle warranty and Nipple corrosion*

Light bicycle warranty Is one year on Rims.
I have (2) wider 29er rims, 23mm inside, 30mm out side no serial # ,made by the old process that have cracks at the spoke holes.
they are January 2013,
I was told that they are out of warranty but could get $15 per rim discount.
Has any body gotten replacement rims for free?

Spoke tension 140kg

Also have found excessive aluminum nipple corrosion in these rims????

Any thoughts?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Big Foot said:


> Light bicycle warranty Is one year on Rims.
> I have (2) wider 29er rims, 23mm inside, 30mm out side no serial # ,made by the old process that have cracks at the spoke holes.
> they are January 2013,
> I was told that they are out of warranty but could get $15 per rim discount.
> ...


I'm getting brass nipples in all my wheels. Not worth the tiny weight saving to me to go with Aluminum. I have have a deep creek crossing on my daily ride.

They are out of warranty, why would you expect anything? Others have mentioned getting warranty replacements free, but those were still under warranty.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

My winter project is to convert all my wheels to brass nipples. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Mine are built with Sapim Lasers from Dan's Comp. Brass nips come free. 125kgf is enough for me on my builds. The rim is stiff to begin with.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Just built up a pair of wheels using the chinese carbon. One is a 29 am 27 mm inner width and the other is a "dh" 26, 31mm rim. Rims looks very well finished and sturdy. The built wheels look nice and robust. Havent had a chance to try them out yet, its been raining non stop for the past 3 days over here.

Tires were very hard to mount on both rims, I struggled almost to the point of giving up out of sheer exhaustion. I think I got tennis elbow and carpal tunnel from that ordeal. Anybody have some tips to make mounting easier?

The 2.25 tire looks almost as fat as a 2.4 RaRa mounted on a stans arch ztr hoop.
























The 2.5 blue groove (wire bead) was a total biatch to mount.








Cheers


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## Ramborage (May 7, 2013)

The more tires you put on, the easier they get. The first tire I tried putting on myself was a rara 2.25 and man I must've spent an hour trying to work that bead over the rim. Now I can get almost any tire on wihin a few minutes. Grip strength maybe? I've been working out at the gym a lot lately doing heavy deadlifts trying to lift as heavy as I can double overhand. It does a lot for your grip strength.


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## VQuick (May 14, 2013)

You really have to make sure the first bead goes into the deep middle channel all the way. That way you have more play for the second bead which is always tougher. Also, why are you using wire bead tires? Personally I wouldn't on a mountain bike because I think it may not seal as well. Plus wire bead tires are usually heavier and use cheaper rubber compounds.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

VQuick said:


> You really have to make sure the first bead goes into the deep middle channel all the way. That way you have more play for the second bead which is always tougher. Also, why are you using wire bead tires? Personally I wouldn't on a mountain bike because I think it may not seal as well. Plus wire bead tires are usually heavier and use cheaper rubber compounds.


Thanks for the tip! I am using a wire bead tire on the bike I use to dh. Since I rarely ride Dh compared to xc, I chose to stick with tubes on that bike. The blue groove is a cheap, heavy, big, very grippy, super tough awesome tire. 
I made sure to have the bead sit on the middle groove, left the valve are last and even sprayed soapy water on the bead and seat but what ultimately worked was the knee "choke hold" technique. Not before having used all the swear words in the english and spanish dictionary.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

abelfonseca said:


> Thanks for the tip! I am using a wire bead tire on the bike I use to dh. Since I rarely ride Dh compared to xc, I chose to stick with tubes on that bike. The blue groove is a cheap, heavy, big, very grippy, super tough awesome tire.
> I made sure to have the bead sit on the middle groove, left the valve are last and even sprayed soapy water on the bead and seat but what ultimately worked was the knee "choke hold" technique. Not before having used all the swear words in the english and spanish dictionary.


You will find that the bead will stretch over time and make the tire easier to get off. I went thru the same hard time getting a DH tire mounted on my 33mm wide rim and was really 
worried about getting a flat out on the trail. But to my pleasant surprise when I went to change tires, the DH tire came off pretty easy. I now have it mounted on a 38mm wide hookless rim and it was very easy.

The tip to mounting a hard to mount tire would be to mount it on a easier rim and pressurize it to 45psi let the bead stretch over night.


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## Barch (Oct 2, 2013)

*Went for the Derby*

After a lot of discussion with the guys at the LBS, I decided to go with the Derby's rather than the Light-bicycle's. Went with the Heavy Duty option, and 40 mm on the 27.5 Kona Process 134DL, and 35mm on the Kona Satori 29er. See picture below. Rims are set up tubeless with Chris King hubs. Due to the weather I haven't ridden either bike yet. The cost was about 50% more than Light-Bicycle would have been for their top package but that included the Chris King Hubs, new tires and complete set up by the LBS and a two year warranty and no shipping hassles/ taxes, etc.

Hopefully 40 mm is not tooooo wide..... We will see.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

*More info wanted on your rims...*



abelfonseca said:


> Just built up a pair of wheels using the chinese carbon. One is a 29 am 27 mm inner width and the other is a "dh" 26, 31mm rim.


Hey Abel, can you specify where you purchased your rims? Maybe I have just missed some of the updates on new models, but I was not aware of Light Bicycle (LB) selling rims with those width dimensions. LB only does hookless in a 24/30mm (inner/outer) and 30/35mm (inner/outer) that I can recall.

Also, do you know the weight on your 27mm inner rim, and also what is the outer width?

I am curious because 27mm inner seems like it could be a sweet spot for people who want a wider rim, but aren't quite ready to go to 30mm+.

Thanks in advance!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I love the look of those Derby's, my friend has them!! They are really nice, I wish I would have went wider like 35mm instead of the 30mm wide LB rims. My rims are the 30mm 29er hookless, weight was 400 and 403 g each.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

abelfonseca said:


> Thanks for the tip! I am using a wire bead tire on the bike I use to dh. Since I rarely ride Dh compared to xc, I chose to stick with tubes on that bike. The blue groove is a cheap, heavy, big, very grippy, super tough awesome tire.
> I made sure to have the bead sit on the middle groove, left the valve are last and even sprayed soapy water on the bead and seat but what ultimately worked was the knee "choke hold" technique. Not before having used all the swear words in the english and spanish dictionary.


The Special Ed tires work brilliantly with these carbon rims. Haven't used wire bead in years. Worth the $$$


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

TheKaiser said:


> Hey Abel, can you specify where you purchased your rims? Maybe I have just missed some of the updates on new models, but I was not aware of Light Bicycle (LB) selling rims with those width dimensions. LB only does hookless in a 24/30mm (inner/outer) and 30/35mm (inner/outer) that I can recall.
> 
> Also, do you know the weight on your 27mm inner rim, and also what is the outer width?
> 
> ...


Hello Kaiser

I bought them from carbonbicycle.cc. I will post the measured width once I get home and the scale readings. The 29er is 392 gms and the 26 is 466 gms.

cheers


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

These are the measurements and weights of the carbonbicycle.cc rim I purchased. Did not have a micrometer at hand so I had to use a ruler, probably a large margin of error there.

I got confused with the widths. The 26 rim is 27 internally and the 29er is 24mm, according to the website. The ruler seems to show them slightly wider but I probably just measured them wrong. I wasnt carefull at all when I did that. The 29er sure looks like a 24 but the 26 would appear to measure 28 or 29mm.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

abelfonseca said:


> These are the measurements and weights of the carbonbicycle.cc rim I purchased...The 29er sure looks like a 24 but the 26 would appear to measure 28 or 29mm.


Hey abel, thanks for going the extra mile and providing those measurements! I haven't kept up on the 26" offerings, but from the photos and measurements you provided the 29" sounds very similar to what Light Bicycle offers with their 24mm Inner 30mm Outer rim, it might even be the same.

The only thing that seems slightly off is that from your photo the 24mm Inner rim looks like it might be, like, 29mm Outer, but that could just be the perspective or manufacturer variance, etc...

The LB 24/30 rim (assuming it actually measures out that way) seems kind of cool to me as it has 3mm sidewall thickness vs the 2.5mm thickness of most of the others out there, so if that is what you got, then keep us posted on how they handle any direct rock hits. I expect they will do well!


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

According to the carbonbicycle web page, its 30mm outer, but it would seem about 1mm thinner on the ruler, but the could be off. They also say that they source the rims from "common suppliers" with light bicycle and other seller. This was a response they made to someone asking if they were the same as lightbicycle.

*"Support :
Hi, Eberhard,
Thank you for your contact.
Yes, you can place an order via our website like other customers.
In this region in China, there are many carbon bike companies (such as Carbon-Bicycle, Greatkey-Bike, Nextie-Bike.......) that sell the same carbon bike products, because we have many common suppliers (factories) around here.
Leadtime of the rims in actuel period : 8-9 jours, you have to wait another 5 days for the Express transport from China to Germany.
We'll declare about 140 USD for these two rims if it's OK for you. Of course, many customers decided the invoice amount by their own. 
Tks,
CB"
*

I have a couple of rides in with the CB rim. I have only built up a front wheel for the XC and the DH bike. No rides on the DH bike yet. So far I am impressed. I can definitely feel a difference. I tried riding through the roughest sections, corner hard and get as much air as I could (which was not that much BTW) just to test the wheel. I could feel the bike has a "snappier" character to it and it felt like it was tracking the corners better but what was even more noticeable was the improved vibration damping that the carbon rim offered.

cheers


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## messias (Oct 11, 2009)

abelfonseca said:


> *"Support :
> Hi, Eberhard,
> .....
> We'll declare about 140 USD for these two rims if it's OK for you. Of course, many customers decided the invoice amount by their own.
> ...


Sorry everyone else, totally OT rant follows:

While checking the carbonbycicle.cc website I was already wondering who that German Eberhard guy was that so openly asked them to fake the invoice amount and help him smuggle the rims past German customs. The fact that you even post that on the forums here seems to show that you have absolutely no sense of wrong-doing. Nice way to support you country!


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I am not that Guy. I only copy/pasted the discusion on the website. I have no idea who that german dude is. If you were more careful with your reading, you would know.


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## messias (Oct 11, 2009)

abelfonseca said:


> I am not that Guy. I only copy/pasted the discusion on the website. I have no idea who that german dude is. If you were more careful with your reading, you would know.


You are correct abelfonseca, please accept my apology.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

No hard feelings.


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Anyone out there running the 29er tubulars?? I'm thinking of a set for my cx bike. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

I got some Nextie hookless 35 wide 28 deep rims delivered today and I'm pretty impressed they look nice and good quality.

Im going to have a go at building these myself and possibly send to my LBS to be checked over before their first ride.


Ive already got some PRO 2 evos in my spares box I'm going to use. With regards spokes I'm unsure on what to go with?

Im a lightweight rider but want them strong enough to take some abuse but then again not over built.

Can anyone advise on what spokes to go with and I'm thinking brass nipples?

Many thanks


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## Verbl Kint (Feb 14, 2013)

J273 said:


> Ive already got some PRO 2 evos in my spares box I'm going to use. With regards spokes I'm unsure on what to go with?
> 
> Im a lightweight rider but want them strong enough to take some abuse but then again not over built.
> 
> Can anyone advise on what spokes to go with and I'm thinking brass nipples?


Double butted spokes would be a great place to start. It's interesting to note, however, that Jared Graves often uses aerolite spokes.

What is the weight of the rider?

Sent using Tapatalk


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Verbl Kint said:


> Double butted spokes would be a great place to start. It's interesting to note, however, that Jared Graves often uses aerolite spokes.
> 
> What is the weight of the rider?
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


 I'm 73KG

Thanks


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## Verbl Kint (Feb 14, 2013)

I would recommend DT Swiss Aerolites for your weight.

Sent using Tapatalk


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

J273 said:


> Can anyone advise on what spokes to go with and I'm thinking brass nipples?


Revolutions offer the same performance as Aerolites at a fraction of the cost.
The appearance of bladed spokes, if you like that, is the only reason to use them on a mountain bike.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Ok thankyou - Ill probably go with those to save a bit of money

Im a complete novice to all of this - Can anyone help with regards spoke length please?

My hubs are hope pro 2 EVO's 32H

Rim profile is:









Thanks again


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Spoke Calculator for bicycle wheels | Prowheelbuilder.com


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

I got an email off Brian today at Nextie he told me for pro 2 evo hubs laced 3x I need 284mm both sides.

Can anyone confirm before I order?

http://www.hopetech.com/wp-content/...UPDATED-HOPE-HUBS-SPOKE-OFFSET-AND-PCD-v2.pdf

PRO 2 EVO hubs 32H - 15mm front / 142x12 rear

Many thanks


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

J273 said:


> I got an email off Brian today at Nextie he told me for pro 2 evo hubs laced 3x I need 284mm both sides.
> 
> Can anyone confirm before I order?


You may want to spend a few pounds to get this excellent eBook on wheel building before ordering spokes:
Wheelbuilding book for building bicycle wheels

After reading this book, you will likely have no need for anyone to confirm the spoke length for your rims. Also search this thread for the lively discussions on spoke length calculators including the one by prowheelbuilder.com.

I followed the steps in Roger Musson's ebook to build my first wheelset this past summer (also using the same Hope Pro 2 evo hubs with LB 27.5 35mm rims). Plan to build my 2nd set using LB's 38/31.6mm 29er rims during the Christmas holidays.

LB is starting to make 38mm outer 29er rims in a few weeks. Here is the profile for anyone interested:


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks very much. I bought the book and used his guides and spoke calculator to get my spoke lengths. Only problem I have is I'm going to be using DT comp spokes which come in 2mm increments.

My spoke calc results gave me:

LEFT 3X - 285.2
RIGHT 3X 286.7

Am i ok to use 286mm left and 288 right or would i be better to round down on the left and go with 284 and use 286 right?

Thanks


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## eastie (Feb 9, 2010)

For the 35mm rim I get the following using spocalc:
front: L286.6 / R288.1
rear: L287.8 / R286.9

Based on that I'd go 286 and 288, 3x pattern and use 12mm or 14mm brass nipples. I know this works as that's what I built up last night on some hope pro 2 evo hubs. If you round down you may want to use 14mm nipples.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I would use 286 all around. Usually saves money. Since many spokes only come in 2mm increments, you can be within 1 mm of calculated. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Yeah i think 286 would be best. 

My other wheel is 

Left 3X 284.7
Right 3X 286.2


What would you recommend for that?

Thanks


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I would use285 all around since I generally round down. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

yourdaguy said:


> I would use285 all around since I generally round down.
> 
> Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


They're only available in 284 and 286.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

284. If one size otherwise 284,286.

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Ok, Thanks for the help.


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

Im not sure to go with the 27/22 or 30/24mm rims for my rigid HT. I prefer the 2.2 Ikons and the 2.1 RR and Thunder Burt tires. Weight is not an issue just curious how my rather narrow tires wil handle the 30/24 rim.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Go wider, the tires will love the wider rim. Especially on rigid HT, more traction and comfort. Once you wide you never go back!!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

BartP said:


> Im not sure to go with the 27/22 or 30/24mm rims for my rigid HT. I prefer the 2.2 Ikons and the 2.1 RR and Thunder Burt tires. Weight is not an issue just curious how my rather narrow tires wil handle the 30/24 rim.


Thunder Burt will be a little wider in one 2015 model. 2.2 XR1 Team Bontragers work very well on my 35/30mm.








Not that wide.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

BartP said:


> Im not sure to go with the 27/22 or 30/24mm rims for my rigid HT. I prefer the 2.2 Ikons and the 2.1 RR and Thunder Burt tires. Weight is not an issue just curious how my rather narrow tires wil handle the 30/24 rim.


Yeah, I would say go for the wider ones too, the reasons being:

1. I wouldn't call 2.2 Ikons narrow by any stretch of the imagination. If you said you were running 1.9 or 2.0 then that would be a bit different.

2. Both the Ikon, the RR, and the TB have a fairly round profile with evenly distributed small knobs. This will prevent the "edgy" feeling that an already square is profile tire can generate when you make it even more square with a wide rim.

3. Evenly distributed small knob tires seem to benefit even more from low pressures than more aggressive, big knobbed tires, IMHO, so assuming wider rims allow you to run lower pressure, then you have even more to gain.

4. Based on the specs, the 30/24 LB rims have an extra .5mm sidewall thickness above what their other models offer which should make them more durable on rock strikes, all else being equal.

I hope that helps!


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

jlian said:


> LB is starting to make 38mm outer 29er rims in a few weeks. Here is the profile for anyone interested:
> 
> View attachment 942032


Thanks for posting this, I hadn't heard about these yet! They look like they could be a sweet option for those "wider is better" folks, particularly those who ride in rocky areas. Stating the obvious, when compared to the 35-30 rim they only gain 1.6mm of ID, with most of the additional width coming not from the ID but from increased sidewall thickness. These things have around .8mm of additional material in the most vulnerable rock strike zone, which seems like it could be good.

Also, from the profile, they appear to have a bead "hump" on the inner bead seat area, which should help with burping, although I would want to see this in person as other LB rims have shown variations on this in the blueprint but it doesn't seem to make it through to production on some.

A lot of these characteristics are reminiscent of Derby's rims, although they don't look like direct knockoffs, which is good, and the dimensions slot in right in the middle of Derby's offerings.

Did they give you any weight figures???


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

TheKaiser said:


> A lot of these characteristics are reminiscent of Derby's rims, although they don't look like direct knockoffs, which is good, and the dimensions slot in right in the middle of Derby's offerings.
> 
> Did they give you any weight figures???


The weight info from LB is "around 430g+/-15 standard version, and 480g+/-15 for dh riding version". The 430g number looks to be not quite right as its 35/30 rim is spec'ed at 420g+/-15. As it is still pre-production, I don't count them as the final numbers.

There is also the following reply to a recent question on LB's 29er rim page:
35mm wide 29er rims beadless for bicycle trail or mountain bike enduro with tubeless compatibility Light-Bicycle

Currently, we have started the rim mold of new hookless 38mm wide 29er rims. It is ok to work with 3.0'' tyres. Do you like? Attached is the rim cross-section drawing.
RM29C14 (38mm wide 29er AM rim) hookless: USD185/pcs
RM29C14 (38mm wide 29er DH rim) hookless: USD193/pcs​
I would have gone with LB 35/30 rims for my 29er wheels (I built my first set for 27.5 using the same 35/30 width rims). This new rims would seem to be stronger with thicker side walls.


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

Thanks for the advice guys! Only hardpack here. Decided to get 2 pcs of the 27/22mm rim and 1x 30/24. Wil start to build the 27/22 set and use the other rim for a spare or extra front wheel later on. My first rigid build so not sure what to expect


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

jlian said:


> The weight info from LB is "around 430g+/-15 standard version, and 480g+/-15 for dh riding version". The 430g number looks to be not quite right as its 35/30 rim is spec'ed at 420g+/-15. As it is still pre-production, I don't count them as the final numbers.


Yeah, that does look a little light considering that they are both wider and have greater sidewall thickness.

Hopefully they didn't try to remove any weight from the spoke bed to compensate!


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

TheKaiser said:


> Thanks for posting this, I hadn't heard about these yet! They look like they could be a sweet option for those "wider is better" folks, particularly those who ride in rocky areas.


They are 32mm deep also, which is 12mm over their original and 7mm over their current wide 29 wide. Which means shorter spokes and stiffer wheel.

Damnit , now want to replace my originals with these . Pair these up with Novatec D541/D542 or Factor hubs which have tall flanges you will have some stiff wheels. Won't be light though .


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Just ordered a pair of hookless 24mm inner 30mm outer rims and a pair of 30mm inner and 35mm outer rims from light bike. The 35mm are going to be matte 3k weave with orange decals like my original set from last year so with the little extra work they estimate a 9 day lead time. 

I'll be using Orange Industry Nine Torch Hubs, half orange and half black Sapim Cx-Ray spokes and Half orange half black Alloy nipples.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I have the 35/30's now from carbonbicycle.cc (seem to be exactly the same as the LB ones) I really don't think I need anymore width but some sidewall thickness and a "bead hump" would be some nice extra security.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

RojoRacing53 said:


> Just ordered a pair of hookless 24mm inner 30mm outer rims and a pair of 30mm inner and 35mm outer rims from light bike. The 35mm are going to be matte 3k weave with orange decals like my original set from last year so with the little extra work they estimate a 9 day lead time.
> 
> I'll be using Orange Industry Nine Torch Hubs, half orange and half black Sapim Cx-Ray spokes and Half orange half black Alloy nipples.


Sound good...and...colorful. I'd like to see the pics, but I will not build carbon with aluminum nips because of galvanic corrosion.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Well here's my original wider hooked rims from last year and the new ones will basically look the same except for the wider rims and giant pinecone of an 11speed cassette.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

RojoRacing53 said:


> Well here's my original wider hooked rims from last year and the new ones will basically look the same except for the wider rims and giant pinecone of an 11speed cassette.
> View attachment 943959
> 
> 
> View attachment 943958


Sweet


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

When I select the XC rim you can choose "cross country" or "all mountain", which gives you a different price than selecting "all mountain" rim to begin with. What's the difference? An extra layer of carbon? Why does it cost more than the all mountain rim that probably has more carbon than the XC rim to begin with?


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## usn.mustanger (Jun 26, 2011)

Alias530 said:


> When I select the XC rim you can choose "cross country" or "all mountain", which gives you a different price than selecting "all mountain" rim to begin with. What's the difference? An extra layer of carbon? Why does it cost more than the all mountain rim that probably has more carbon than the XC rim to begin with?


E-mail them and ask. LB is actually quite responsive and helpful via e-mail.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

They were not helpful. They didn't seem to understand the question, even with screenshots.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Alias530 said:


> When I select the XC rim you can choose "cross country" or "all mountain", which gives you a different price than selecting "all mountain" rim to begin with. What's the difference? An extra layer of carbon? Why does it cost more than the all mountain rim that probably has more carbon than the XC rim to begin with?


The XC rim is the 27 mm outside width/ 22 mm inside width rim. They offer that rim in "cross country" weight (~360g) and "all mountain" weight (~390g) with some added carbon for extra strength. The All Mountain rim is a wider rim.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk


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## usn.mustanger (Jun 26, 2011)

Alias530 said:


> They were not helpful. They didn't seem to understand the question, even with screenshots.


That's unfortunate. I had the exact opposite experience with them. They quickly replied to all of my questions (as a mechanical engineer, I had a few...) with solid information. Who from LB replied to your inquiries?


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Without reading the whole thread. Has anyone had a set of LB and nextie rims side by side? are they pretty much the same and would you say they are from the same factory?

Is one rim better quality than the other?


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## Lore (Aug 20, 2009)

Hi,
Going to get a pair of LB 27 mm carbon rims for my new Lynskey Pro29...
How good is their standard build with Hope hubs? Would I need to send them to my wheelbuilder to tension or can I just use them as they arrive?
Or is it definitely better to just take the rims and have them laced here?
I'm 150 lbs and will run 2.2 Race Kings tubeless...
Thanks!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Lore said:


> Hi,
> Going to get a pair of LB 27 mm carbon rims for my new Lynskey Pro29...
> How good is their standard build with Hope hubs? Would I need to send them to my wheelbuilder to tension or can I just use them as they arrive?
> Or is it definitely better to just take the rims and have them laced here?
> ...


I would personally have them laced with a local builder, but that's me.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Lore said:


> Hi,
> Going to get a pair of LB 27 mm carbon rims for my new Lynskey Pro29...
> How good is their standard build with Hope hubs? Would I need to send them to my wheelbuilder to tension or can I just use them as they arrive?
> Or is it definitely better to just take the rims and have them laced here?
> ...


They are not very good at building wheels . Spokes on my set of 29ers from them where 5mm too long and had to buy new spokes and get them rebuilt. Also had issues with aluminum nipples and massive corrosion after 6 months. I would just buy the rims then go find a good wheel builder and get them built using brass nipples.


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Here is my Pivot M6 with new LB wheels. I purchased the hubs separately and had my LBS set them up tubeless.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

SDMTB'er said:


> Here is my Pivot M6 with new LB wheels. I purchased the hubs separately and had my LBS set them up tubeless.
> 
> View attachment 944907
> 
> ...


What weave are those?


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Lenny7 said:


> What weave are those?


The 12k


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## Lore (Aug 20, 2009)

In2falling said:


> They are not very good at building wheels . Spokes on my set of 29ers from them where 5mm too long and had to buy new spokes and get them rebuilt. Also had issues with aluminum nipples and massive corrosion after 6 months. I would just buy the rims then go find a good wheel builder and get them built using brass nipples.


Thanks for the suggestion...


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Are there many of you guys running these rims with alloy niples, or is everybody using brass. I laced mine with alloy. Should I expect them to fail from corrosion soon? 
I wasnt aware of this galvanic corrosion issue until someone recently pointed it out to me.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Anyone know if there making 35/30 29er rims with the new profile U shaped like 38mm wide, I really like that deeper U shape profile. The older shape looks like a alloy rim to me. Also anyone looking for great tires for there rims the Bontrager XR4, XR3, XR2 Team Ussue 29x2.30 some of the best time I now use. Light,durable, great predictable traction. Fast rolling. Only drawback is getting them!!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Depends on your environment and how often you wash your bike. I started having failures around 2 years. Just rebuilt 6 wheels in the last 2 weeks as a winter project. I had already rebuilt 2 previously. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

abelfonseca said:


> Are there many of you guys running these rims with alloy niples, or is everybody using brass. I laced mine with alloy. Should I expect them to fail from corrosion soon?
> I wasnt aware of this galvanic corrosion issue until someone recently pointed it out to me.


I have a deep creak crossing so at this point the weight savings or color wasn't worth it to me. The last wheelset I had built and the one that's coming up both use brass.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

abelfonseca said:


> Are there many of you guys running these rims with alloy niples, or is everybody using brass. I laced mine with alloy. Should I expect them to fail from corrosion soon?
> I wasnt aware of this galvanic corrosion issue until someone recently pointed it out to me.


I built mine with brass nipples and stainless washers. And Permatex Anti-Seize.


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## freebiker (Mar 19, 2006)

*rims are great but stop there. support/invest/trust your local wheelbuilder*

Not surprised on lb build issues w incorrect spoke lengths. Like it is that hard to order the rims and hand carry them to a local wheel builder to assemble. Does everything need to come ready to use at your doorstep. The amazon era. Its gonna do us in!


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I have 2 full seasons of hard riding on mine w/ aluminum sapim polyax nipples. I used a grey automotive anti-seize on the nipple seats. I live in dry Colorado. I will build again w/ alloy, unless I have a failure in the near future. My "understanding" is that if the nipples have a good anodization then failure should not occur. The use of anti-seize was at the suggestion of someone on this group. I know that I will get many anti aluminum comments, but my experience has been good, albeit "so far". I have heard from someone who built and rebuilt many Enve wheels that the original Enve nipples that so many people had issues with were not anodized at all. YMMV.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

freebiker said:


> Not surprised on lb build issues w incorrect spoke lengths. Like it is that hard to order the rims and hand carry them to a local wheel builder to assemble. Does everything need to come ready to use at your doorstep. The amazon era. Its gonna do us in!


It's not that, it's the price, people think they are saving $150 ignoring all the advice against their builds. There are a few people posting they are happy with them, but I wonder if they even know what to look for to know if its a good build to begin with.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> It's not that, it's the price, people think they are saving $150 ignoring all the advice against their builds. There are a few people posting they are happy with them, but I wonder if they even know what to look for to know if its a good build to begin with.


That's what I wonder about.
I had mine done by a wheel builder with King Hubs I'm very happy.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

All my wheels were built with DT nipples. Red, black, clear; anodized. They all showed significant corrosion after 2 years. I do wash my bikes after every 3 rd ride on average. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## mtndude23 (Apr 18, 2012)

I used alloy with my build-I do on most of my builds. But I live in the dry deserts of colorado. So my wheels really don't see much water or salt. If your bike sees lots of salty water then go for the brass.

On a side note-I haven't heard of anyone having corrosion issues with carbon seatposts/handlebars and the AL frames and stems.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

mtndude23 said:


> I used alloy with my build-I do on most of my builds. But I live in the dry deserts of colorado. So my wheels really don't see much water or salt. If your bike sees lots of salty water then go for the brass


The weather doesn't make any difference, I'm from South Australia, the driest state on the driest continent on earth... I started this thread a while back - http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/enve-wheel-nipple-corrosion-835853.html

Carbon is a non metallic conductor of electricity, so between galvanic corrosion, a reaction with stans liquid or whatever caused the failure of many ENVE wheelsets, just go brass.

I now don't own a set of metal wheels, embarrassingly I have 7 sets of carbon wheels, only 1 expensive set though, the rest are Nextie and LB rims. I build my own wheels and will never build another set of wheels with alloy nipples, ever.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Will relative humidity have something to do with the corrosion issue? Ie. The drier the worse? Static electricity will thrive in drier weather. Has anybody seen a correlation with this?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Washing the bike seems to have the most affect on how fast corrosion occurs. Water gets between the nipple and rim. Moisture speeds up corrosion. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I am now only riding wide and then I see what this guy can do...
Chris Akrigg - Chriscross 2 - BIKE Magazine


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

My local wheel builder says that aluminum nipples are for show and brass are for go.


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> It's not that, it's the price, people think they are saving $150 ignoring all the advice against their builds. There are a few people posting they are happy with them, but I wonder if they even know what to look for to know if its a good build to begin with.


 I am more than happy with my LB build. I think its pretty safe to say that their builds are inconsistent at best judging by whats been posted, but saying that folks don't even know what to look for who happen to be pleased with their build is pretty arrogant. 
Ive seen 3 LB builds locally that have all been fine. Mine has held up remarkably well. Good enough in fact that this wheelset has been better than most builds I have had and Im pretty hard on wheels. Id not hesitate to get another build from LB. If you don't want to take a chance with them then go the local builder route, its that simple.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

elsinore said:


> I am more than happy with my LB build. I think its pretty safe to say that their builds are inconsistent at best judging by whats been posted, but saying that folks don't even know what to look for who happen to be pleased with their build is pretty arrogant.
> Ive seen 3 LB builds locally that have all been fine. Mine has held up remarkably well. Good enough in fact that this wheelset has been better than most builds I have had and Im pretty hard on wheels. Id not hesitate to get another build from LB. If you don't want to take a chance with them then go the local builder route, its that simple.


It wasn't arrogance,it was just a statement. You and both know there are a lot of posters that don't know what the hell they're talking about on here. So I just wondered. Just because someone gets the wheels and they ride them, doesn't mean it's a good build.

So with your build and those others, you've checked tension? How were the spoke lengths? Any prep on the nipples?

Also, you kind of make our point with this "I think its pretty safe to say that their builds are inconsistent" So to save $150 it's worth rolling the dice and hoping you get one of the 'good' builds?

No thanks- I'm on my 4th wheelset from Mike- no need to save a $150 and take a chance. I'm sure plenty of other can say the same for the builders they use.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

This online calculator is pretty handy for checking build quality. Park Tool Co. » TM-1 Tension Meter Bladed Spoke Calculator

Borrow a TM-1 from a friend, the LBS, or buy one for $70.


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

The corrosion you're discussing: is it just the nipple that disintegrates? Or does the carbon disintegrate around the nipple as well? 

I can live with replacing spoke and nipples every few years, but don't want to damage rim.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

abelfonseca said:


> Are there many of you guys running these rims with alloy niples, or is everybody using brass. I laced mine with alloy. Should I expect them to fail from corrosion soon?
> I wasnt aware of this galvanic corrosion issue until someone recently pointed it out to me.


I've got 2 years on mine. Black aluminum nipples, LB rims, CX-ray spokes. Last week I had to replace 2 spokes due to an unfortunate incident involving a lot of wet clay, a wrecked rear dérailleur, and a couple broken/bent spokes.

No corrosion at all on the spokes/nipples I removed, and no signs of it on the remaining.

Not to say it won't happen, just that, so far, I've got no signs of corrosion.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

abelfonseca said:


> Are there many of you guys running these rims with alloy niples, or is everybody using brass. I laced mine with alloy. Should I expect them to fail from corrosion soon?
> I wasnt aware of this galvanic corrosion issue until someone recently pointed it out to me.


It's not necessarily galvanic corrosion. In fact, nothing really points to that. The misuse of technical terms is just something that happens when a bunch of people start reading snippets of Wikipedia and acting like they know what they are talking about. It plagues Internet forums.


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

meltingfeather said:


> It's not necessarily galvanic corrosion. In fact, nothing really points to that. The misuse of technical terms is just something that happens when a bunch of people start reading snippets of Wikipedia and acting like they know what they are talking about. It plagues Internet forums.


Lol, some truth to this. BUT, alloy nipples are more prone to poor manufacture are weaker and more prone to rounding on high tension wheel sets.

All in all, alloy nipples have no real world benefit at all, and plenty of real world potential downsides, such that using brass is a no brainer. People who are so affected that they value an anodised colour higher than use-ability and dependability have to take a good hard look at themselves in the mirror or go buy a white wheeled fixie, get a manicured beard, and become a barista.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pharmaboy said:


> Lol, some truth to this. BUT, alloy nipples are more prone to poor manufacture are weaker and more prone to rounding on high tension wheel sets.
> 
> All in all, alloy nipples have no real world benefit at all, and plenty of real world potential downsides, such that using brass is a no brainer. People who are so affected that they value an anodised colour higher than use-ability and dependability have to take a good hard look at themselves in the mirror or go buy a white wheeled fixie, get a manicured beard, and become a barista.


Funny stuff! :thumbsup:
One benefit is rotating weight reduction and for all the probably billions of aluminum nipples out there there are relatively few problems like this.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Well I knew about galvanic corrosion decades before the 2001 start of Wikipedia. I had 2 wheels with broken nipples this Summer and rebuilt them with brass and I just rebuilt the other 6 in the last 2 weeks using brass. Here is a sampling of the damage I found.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/apd0zahc39apgp4/AAAM3OqRBPTpWyY9elieN7bma

Sure looks like galvanic corrosion to me. These nipples have been in there around 2 years. I wash my bikes about every 3rd ride and I ride a lot-like 5 times a week.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/2w5zzgwvjqtqsqv/AABkHkGxKXE4sri3mNYJYKLja

I have 3 sets of Stans wheels some of them 5 years old and so far no nipple problems. So my theory is that it is galvanic corrosion caused by the carbon (which is drilled no molded-that should make it worse) and the more you wash/get them wet, the worse the problem.

Tell us MF, what is your theory on what is happening?


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> Well I knew about galvanic corrosion decades before the 2001 start of Wikipedia. I had 2 wheels with broken nipples this Summer and rebuilt them with brass and I just rebuilt the other 6 in the last 2 weeks using brass. Here is a sampling of the damage I found.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/apd0zahc39apgp4/AAAM3OqRBPTpWyY9elieN7bma
> 
> ...


So the nipple disintegrates, but the carbon around the nipple is just fine, and maintains its structural integrity?
Thanks in advance for answering.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Tell us MF, what is your theory on what is happening?


I've spelled it out a few times, and since I stopped taking you seriously after the 5th or 6th complete BS post I saw from you, I'm not going to waste my time (again).
Since you know what galvanic corrosion looks like (you probably don't even understand why that's funny), have you ever wondered why this corrosion only exhibits inside the rim cavity? Or why galvanic corrosion is not a problem in the numerous other places on a bicycle where carbon and aluminum are in contact?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The way it works genius is the aluminum becomes an anode and the free elections

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Cause the aluminum to lose its bonds just like a battery. Sorry about the split post, I am doing this from my phone between laps. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

yourdaguy said:


> Well I knew about galvanic corrosion decades before the 2001 start of Wikipedia. I had 2 wheels with broken nipples this Summer and rebuilt them with brass and I just rebuilt the other 6 in the last 2 weeks using brass. Here is a sampling of the damage I found.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/apd0zahc39apgp4/AAAM3OqRBPTpWyY9elieN7bma
> 
> ...


Are you a metallurgist? If so, can you explain the difference visually between corrosion and galvanic corrosion?

Had worse looking corrosion that destroyed a wheelset in 2 months - of course the wheelset was aluminium nipples and aluminium rims, the cause was probably poor nipple quality( no anodising or coating) and salt water


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Corrosion and Galvanic corrosion are basically the same thing with the exception that galvanic corrosion tends to have another metal driving the process faster than would naturally happen. When metal corrodes it is basically oxydation.

When you put an aluminum lawn chair out it turns a dull color that is a surface layer of corrosion (actually aluminum oxide) that is fairly hard. This prevents the aluminum from further oxidizing for the most part and the bare aluminum chair lasts for a decade or so. The same is true of rust which is basically corroded iron. That is why the Picasso statue in Chicago does not turn into a pile of iron oxide, the metal is thick enough (and alloyed with a few other metals to slow down the process) that the iron below the surface can't be gotten to by the air and further oxidized.

This oxidation process is basically the metal losing electrons and then the oxygen in the atmosphere combines with the metal to form an oxide (iron oxide is rust, aluminum oxide is the surface patina on aluminum lawn furniture, etc.) The galvanic potential of a metal is a measure of how easy it is for that metal to lose electrons and get oxidized. If you put 2 metals with different galvanic numbers in contact, the one with the greatest galvanic potential will tend to shed the electrons for the entire system (it is more complicated than this-but without writing a book...) The metal that sheds the electrons will corrode way more deeply and rapidly than it normally would because the overall electrical potential is focused into the point of least resistance. This point becomes the natural anode for what is in effect a very weak battery.

The reason that mine corroded so much on the ends was that I thought galvanic corrosion could be a problem and I built my wheels (after the first set) with never seize on the threads and the head where it seats on the rim. The way never seize works is that it is grease that has either ground up copper (the brown kind-what I used) or ground up aluminum or magnesium or both (the silver kind) to both allow electrons to flow between the parts and also to be somewhat a sacrificial metal. So the main place left in this case for electrons to leave would be the head of the nipple. What you didn't see was that the 2 wheels that I didn't use never seize on the spokes were corroded to the nipples and I actually had to cut 2 spokes because I could not get the nipple to turn and if you notice in the picture the pieces of broken nipple shaft, those were from the first wheel set where the nipples were literally welded to the spokes.

Generally, all of this is a bad thing, but if you look up "sacrificial anode" (don't do it on Wikipedia or MF will dis you), there are some very good uses of this effect such as putting blocks of magnesium on the hulls of steel ships to keep them from rusting much at all for decades. Magnesium, by the way, is one of the most galvanic metals and it is very hard to keep parts made of magnesium from corroding or having galvanic corrosion issues if they are even near other metals. The US military has spent untold $ trying to prevent magnesium from corroding since it is very light and strong (2 things they like) but to this day, they only use it in limited applications because of this.

Pharmaboy: salt is a definite catalyst for oxidation since pure water is not very conductive, but the more ions of salt you have in water the better it conducts. Salt water loves to move those electrons from the metal. In fact, that is what the military uses to test the effectiveness of anti corrosion measures. They will subject a part to several days of misted salt spray which generally represents years of actual use in most applications that are not marine in nature.

I am not a metallurgist and I do not play one on TV but I do have a little bit of a physics background although this is a chemists realm so while i have a basic understanding if you want nitty gritty details you will need a non-organic chemist or a metallurgist.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Cause the aluminum to lose its bonds just like a battery. Sorry about the split post, I am doing this from my phone between laps.
> 
> Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


I know how it works, which is why it doesn't seem at all to be galvanic.
It looks like straight attack on the unanodized aluminum, most likely by ammonia. IIRC ENVE even recommended or supplied Gorilla tape with their wheels. Gorilla is porous and allows diffusion of ammonia through it.
The lack of consistency of this problem is another strong clue. Carbon rims have been in use on road bikes for many years, wet conditions, washing... everything you're trying to tie to galvanic... but without sealant containing ammonia. Don't know that I've heard of or seen a single instance of this on road bikes. Galvanic corrosion is something that happens every time the recipe is there... every time.


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

"Corrosion and Galvanic corrosion are basically the same thing with the exception that galvanic corrosion tends to have another metal driving the process faster than would naturally happen. When metal corrodes it is basically oxydation."

From reading, all galvanic corrosion is corrosion but not all corrosion is galvanic. Galvanic is specific to dissimilar metals, and is a type of corrosion, and by most accounts a not too common one, but one to be aware of ( as a one time house renovator in a seaside suburb, one has to be acutely aware of the interaction of disimilar metals on housing).

I do not think you can identify the type by looking, and there is plenty of cause for doubt in this situation.

All in all though, I still hold that aluminium is a stupid material for a nipple, and the 30grams of weight is only important inside the mind of a true weight weenie who lacks complete rationality and somehow thinks that they can buy speed rather than earn it


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I use the Bontrager rim strips on all my carbon wheels. The only possible place the sealant could get in between the top and bottom of the rim where the nipples seat is through the valve stem and there is no evidence of that. I use Stan's valves and I really tighten them up. I can't believe that the Bontrager rim strips are permeable by ammonia, but I guess that is a possibility.

Are the spoke holes on road carbon wheels drilled or molded? Molded wheels would theoreticalls only have resin touching nipples which is somewhat of an insulator so I would expect almost no corrosion. I was a roadie for many years and rode over 5000 miles annually and probably 30-40% of it on Zipp wheels and I never had a problem with nipples breaking but I have broken a few of those outrageously expensive spokes. If Zips are drilled, does Zip go back and put resin or sealer in the holes? If the Zipps are drilled, do they leave carbon out of the place where they drill them? That could certainly explain all the spoke pull through issues they had prior to 2005 or so. I know that the Lb wheels are drilled right through the carbon so the carbon fibers will generally be in contact with the nipples.

There have been several reports of galvanic corrosion on Enve rims even though their nipple holes are molded. Is it possible that even though theirs are molded that the carbon fibers on theirs are coming to the top of the resin in the holes? Or, as you suspect, it is ammonia permeating through the Gorilla tape. Do you know for sure that ammonia will permeate through Gorilla Tape?


Given all of the above, if everything we think we know is true...
One possibility that tends to make sense on all counts is that the ammonia is the catalyst and that is why road bikes never had the problem and if Gorilla Tape and Rim strips are permeable to ammonia, then the ammonia is acting as a catalyst and causing the corrosion. If this is true, then it explains my issues, and Enve's issues and the fact that road carbon wheels didn't suffer from this problem. Also, if Stan's tape is not permeable then it would explain why some are suffering this problem and others are not.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> There have been several reports of galvanic corrosion on Enve rims even though their nipple holes are molded.


Corrosion... there have been reports of corrosion.
It doesn't seem to be and we don't know at this point, so tagging the word galvanic on every time you write corrosion is useless and probably wrong.
That has sort of been my point.


yourdaguy said:


> One possibility that tends to make sense on all counts is that the ammonia is the catalyst and that is why road bikes never had the problem and if Gorilla Tape and Rim strips are permeable to ammonia, then the ammonia is acting as a catalyst and causing the corrosion.


Ammonia in this situation is a corrosive acid, not a catalyst.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

All corrosion is not galvanic but galvanic corrosion is corrosion that is driven by the different electrical potentials of the metals involved. The stainless spokes and aluminum nipples definitely would provide electrical potential. 

A catalyst is any chemical that speeds up a reaction. Ammonia is definitely a catalyst in this case or else we can't blame the ammonia.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Has anyone experienced this issue with alu wheels running tubeless setups?


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

abelfonseca said:


> Has anyone experienced this issue with alu wheels running tubeless setups?


Yes, but many stupid deep creek crossings also involved (el nino years). Nipples spun off easy because of the permatex anti-seize I used on the threads.


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## mtndude23 (Apr 18, 2012)

If the stans was the issue, shouldn't people's alum rims be disintegrating? Instead of just the nipples.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

abelfonseca said:


> Has anyone experienced this issue with alu wheels running tubeless setups?


Yes


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mtndude23 said:


> If the stans was the issue, shouldn't people's alum rims be disintegrating? Instead of just the nipples.


No, The rims and most aluminum nipples are anodized, which provides protection against corrosion. Also, in a proper tubeless set up neither the nipples nor the rims are exposed to sealant.
This appears to be the result of unanodized nipples, which are not very common, and crappy gorilla tape, which ENVE recommended and I believe supplied with their wheels.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> All corrosion is not galvanic but galvanic corrosion is corrosion that is driven by the different electrical potentials of the metals involved. The stainless spokes and aluminum nipples definitely would provide electrical potential.
> 
> A catalyst is any chemical that speeds up a reaction. Ammonia is definitely a catalyst in this case or else we can't blame the ammonia.


There you go again.
You admit that you don't know chemistry yet here you are trying to split semantic hairs (and getting it completely wrong, btw).
Would it be totally unacceptable for you to keep your mouth shut when you don't know you're talking about?
Due to your unfortunate combination of ignorance and prolific posting, you are a big part of the reason why there is confusion about the corrosion issue.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I am not splitting hairs. You are pissed because I pointed out that as usual you are not providing an good information just belittling people and running them off the site. My statements that you quoted are a fact and the intelligent members know you are just a wind bag.

As to your point about tagging the word galvanic every time I write corrosion that is not true. What is true is that aluminum lawn furniture will last for decades, if you put a steel screw in it it will turn to mush in that area. That is galvanic corrosion. The patina that was on there before the screw was corrosion. What we are seeing with the nipples is definitely galvanic corrosion whether you want to call it that or not. AS usual, you take the argument to yelling that "we can't prove galvanic corrosion" -well yes we can; intelligent people look at the pictures -people who know what galvanic corrosion looks like and they say-yes that is it. You continue to make false claims about my statements as though your claims are a fact. All you do is confuse the weak minded and look like an idiot to the smart.

Why don't you do something useful like run a test of Gorilla tape rear wheel, Stan's tape front wheel and report back in a year? You need to get over yourself. Everyone that comes on this forum is going to make mis-statements and errors, but you are always the first one to jump on and call them stupid. The exchange of ideas is how we all get smarter not by one guy running people off that don't see things his way.

I encourage anyone who has any doubt to look through his posts and see what percentage are him telling someone that they are stupid and don't know anything and probably uses Wikipedia, etc.

MF, I have tried to be nice to you in the past and complimented when you actually helped someone, etc. but you just look for me to post and then jump all over it. I spent half an hour writing a detailed explanation of galvanic corrosion that is probably one of the longest posts in this thread packed with good information. It was valuable information to the other readers. You come back with : you don't take me seriously since my posts are BS (your post 6602). Who is doing the most the further the goals of this forum?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Are having a biology discussion or carbon rims? Can you guys stay on topic? Any word on 29er 35mm oval shaped wheels coming out anytime soon? I think I remember seeing someone post this. I dont want to buy derby's. Its like getting 3 Chinese rims for 2 derby's which may be worth it in the long haul with their current t sale going on


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> Are having a biology discussion or carbon rims? Can you guys stay on topic? Any word on 29er 35mm oval shaped wheels coming out anytime soon? I think I remember seeing someone post this. I dont want to buy derby's. Its like getting 3 Chinese rims for 2 derby's which may be worth it in the long haul with their current t sale going on


 It is on topic, the issue has existed for quite some time with much misinformation having been posted here and in many other forums. I for one welcome the discussion as it helps to dispel much of that misinformation.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> I am not splitting hairs. You are pissed because I pointed out that as usual you are not providing an good information just belittling people and running them off the site. My statements that you quoted are a fact and the intelligent members know you are just a wind bag.


I and a few others have provided the little good info on corrosion that has been posted.
I'm not pissed at all, just providing some good information to balance out the volumes of crap that you spew.
Calling a corrosive acid reactant a catalyst is ignorant... trying to justify it with some general description of what a catalyst is is semantic hair splitting. Simple... and typical of what you do day in and day out.
If you would stop posting misinformation to the detriment of the forum people like myself and others wouldn't feel compelled to correct your crap.
All the thousands of words of copy-and-paste on corrosion that you post does not provide useful information to this discussion... it continues to confuse the issue.
It's not about running people off or seeing things my way, it is about providing good information for people to use as a resource, which is why you often find yourself on the receiving end of corrections, not only by me but by plenty of posters who actually know something about the various topics you post on.
I'm not lapping this with you again.
Continue to post ignorant and misinformed crap and you will probably continue to see the same responses.
I will be the first to compliment you on a good forum contribution if I ever see one.
Here's to hoping... :thumbsup:


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Calling a corrosive acid a catalyst is correct when it is acting as such. Your refusal to even concede that point just shows your intransigence. Saying that I posted thousands of words of cut and paste is just a lie. There is nothing in my post that is cut and pasted; in fact I seldom ever cut and paste. I would generally provide a link so that the party can perceive the context of the information. You on the other hand are probably a prolific cut and paster.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

In order to really prove our theories and hypothesis on this whole corrosion deal, all it takes is a little design of experiments. where the variables could be as follows: true being manifestation of corrosion and false being no corrosion. Assuming all are using alloy niples

x- carbon rims setup tubeless with stans and gorilla tape
y- carbon rims with tubes
z- carbon rims setup tubeless with stans and stans tape
m- carbon rims setup tubeless with non amonia selant and gorilla tape
u- alu rims setup tubeless with stans and gorilla tape
o- alu rims setup tubeless with stans and stans tape
t- alu rims setup tubeless with non amonia sealant and gorilla tape

If lets say: x y z m all hold true and u,o,t all hold false, then we can assume its not the sealant or gorilla tape to blame but another factor (galvanic corrosion)
If x,u hold true then, stans gorilla combination is the culprit, more likely due to amonia going past the gorilla tape. 

and we can reach other conclusions with the other combinations.
This is just an example.

Cheers


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes and don't forget that all my wheels have Bontrager rim strips. Unfortunately since I rebuilt all my wheels with brass I am not able to test this stuff any more. It would be good for those with nipple corrosion to report all their pertinent parameters so we can get a better idea. Also, anyone that goes years with no nipple corrosion it would be good to hear from them with their parameters.

Me:
Home made sealant: ammonia, latex, pg, ro water, various chunkulators over time
Bontrager rim strips
fairly frequent washing of bike


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> Calling a corrosive acid a catalyst is correct when it is acting as such.


Here's some cut-and-paste for you:
"catalyst - a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction *without itself undergoing any permanent chemical change*."
Reactants are not catalysts. Period.
Keep posting ignorant crap and you will keep getting corrected.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have defined catalyst every time you dissed me about it as a substance that increases the speed of a chemical reaction. I left of the without undergoing a permanent chemical change because I thought that was self evident. Apparently, you are someone for which every aspect of every thing has to be spelled out to. I will patronize you like a child in the future.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yourdaguy said:


> I have defined catalyst every time you dissed me about it as a substance that increases the speed of a chemical reaction. I left of the without undergoing a permanent chemical change because I thought that was self evident. Apparently, you are someone for which every aspect of every thing has to be spelled out to. I will patronize you like a child in the future.


I guess you don't understand that ammonia undergoes chemical reaction/change in this scenario?
Why is that not surprising.
Look at how much time is wasted because you're posting things you have no idea about.
I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who reads the forum where you're coming from and hopefully they attribute the appropriate level of credibility (zero).
The catalyst thing was just a convenient example of the type of thing you say all the time that is demonstrably false, as if you had said, "the earth is flat, so therefore..."
And I'm the one who needs things spelled out? lol
:nonod:


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

The ammonia is not combining with the metal. The metal is combining with oxygen.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

tiretracks said:


> It is on topic, the issue has existed for quite some time with much misinformation having been posted here and in many other forums. I for one welcome the discussion as it helps to dispel much of that misinformation.


I haven't read a single post regarding Chinese carbon. Just what nipple people use and if it corrodes. It can happen to any rim out there pretty much. Aluminum carbon etc. How's that on topic?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> I haven't read a single post regarding Chinese carbon. Just what nipple people use and if it corrodes. It can happen to any rim out there pretty much. Aluminum carbon etc. How's that on topic?


 Reading comprehension fails you if that is what you have gleaned out of over 6,600 posts.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

tiretracks said:


> Reading comprehension fails you if that is what you have gleaned out of over 6,600 posts.


Obviously it was in reference to the last few pages, updates on carbon wheels, builds. Questions around it, new products etc. 

I mean come on dude, i was trying to be civil and joke around about being off topic. If you think about it, Why would I read a post from 4 years ago for updates?

There's a small bit that my argument holds value since you can talk about building wheels elsewhere. Am I correct?


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## Bubblehead10mm (Jan 6, 2013)

I'm sure answers are back in there somewhere, but I'm overwhelmed. 
Questions I have are:
1 Will my SRAM cassette work on what hubs? (SRAM 971) Everything I see on LB web sight says Shimano, and I just don't know if the hubs are the same.
2 UD or 3K, what's stronger? 
3 Spokes? 
Bike is a Specialized Camber Aluminum, I'm hard on it but not into jumping much. I'm about 205# all up, but that's going down, honest.


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## hball (May 22, 2004)

Bubblehead10mm said:


> I'm sure answers are back in there somewhere, but I'm overwhelmed.
> Questions I have are:
> 1 Will my SRAM cassette work on what hubs? (SRAM 971) Everything I see on LB web sight says Shimano, and I just don't know if the hubs are the same.
> 2 UD or 3K, what's stronger?
> ...


1 - yes
2 - its just a cosmetical thing. the finishes are called UD, 3k or 12k
3 - yes, you need spokes. even on carbon wheels!  (sorry, i would not recommend any spokes without knowing weight and riding style)


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

Tonggi said:


> Are having a biology discussion or carbon rims? Can you guys stay on topic? Any word on 29er 35mm oval shaped wheels coming out anytime soon? I think I remember seeing someone post this. I dont want to buy derby's. Its like getting 3 Chinese rims for 2 derby's which may be worth it in the long haul with their current t sale going on


Tell me more about this oval shape 35mm rim and how it compares to the current rim shape on the lb website.

Also: I've had runners tell me that tech t's, dry-fit fabric, etc, can cause nipple corrosion during long runs. Fwiw.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Known issue, magnesium nipple rings to act as sacrificial anode will solve this. 

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

rfxc said:


> Tell me more about this oval shape 35mm rim and how it compares to the current rim shape on the lb website.
> 
> Also: I've had runners tell me that tech t's, dry-fit fabric, etc, can cause nipple corrosion during long runs. Fwiw.


I'd also like to know. Only oval cf rims I know of are derby's and the 38 mm rims which may be overkill. In essence I wanna save and get Chinese since it's cheaper than derby's. 3 for the price of 2 but oval,warranty is nice. I have a set of Chinese 35 mm now and love them just wish they were oval. Aesthetic preference


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

I've just built some 29er Nextie 35mm wide 28mm deep rims. I was hoping to save a little weight over my current hope hoops (flow ex) but after building them using comps and brass nipples they are pretty much like for like weight wise.

I've not ridden them yet. I'm a tad disappointed with the weight as that was one of the reasons in building them but I'll see how they are on trails. Hopefully I'll notice a difference and the build was worthwhile.

One thing I have noticed is the shimano ice tech rotors weigh a ton, think I'll be replacing them sooner or later


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

Great, now we'll have 1000 posts from Meltingfeather debating whether that's abrasion vs corrosion.



rfxc said:


> Also: I've had runners tell me that tech t's, dry-fit fabric, etc, can cause nipple corrosion during long runs. Fwiw.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

MF "I've spelled it out a few times, and since I stopped taking you seriously after the 5th or 6th complete BS post I saw from you, I'm not going to waste my time (again).
Since you know what galvanic corrosion looks like (you probably don't even understand why that's funny), have you ever wondered why this corrosion only exhibits inside the rim cavity? Or why galvanic corrosion is not a problem in the numerous other places on a bicycle where carbon and aluminum are in contact?"

Because the inside of the rim is kept moist especially with frequent washing. Water with dissolved salts, (which almost all water has unless it is RO or distilled), is a catalyst because it eases the flow of electrons Also, it does not get used up since the oxygen comes from the air (so it is a true catalyst in this reaction) . The oxygen in water H2O is very tightly held, otherwise we would all be driving hydrogen powered cars. The oxygen in the air is O2 and is very available.

MF"I know how it works, which is why it doesn't seem at all to be galvanic.
It looks like straight attack on the unanodized aluminum, most likely by ammonia. IIRC ENVE even recommended or supplied Gorilla tape with their wheels. Gorilla is porous and allows diffusion of ammonia through it.
The lack of consistency of this problem is another strong clue. Carbon rims have been in use on road bikes for many years, wet conditions, washing... everything you're trying to tie to galvanic... but without sealant containing ammonia. Don't know that I've heard of or seen a single instance of this on road bikes. Galvanic corrosion is something that happens every time the recipe is there... every time."

All my nipples are DT and they are all anodized (the black and red ones in the pictures automatically disprove the non anodized theory). The recipe has many ingredients-every one of them has to be there and sometimes there can be one thing that prevents the recipe from working because it is an antagonist for something in the recipe. Or sometimes the ingredients come in the wrong order. Ask any woman who has had a pie crust fail or a souffle fall down. Hell, ask any of us homebrew sealant guys what happens if you put the PG with the Latex before mixing it with water. 

MF"Ammonia in this situation is a corrosive acid, not a catalyst."

Ammonia is a strong base. The is exactly the kind of BS that you always belittle everyone else about. I learned ammonia was a base in either 6th or 7th grade-I don't remember which, but I do remember that ammonia is a base. Acids are, well, acids. Acids have low ph's less than 7 and bases have high ph's more than 7. Ammonia could be a catalyst since as you pointed out a catalyst is something that speeds a reaction but is not used up in the reaction. Guess what- Aluminum oxide is AL2O3. Ammonia is NH3. Since there is no Nitrogen or Hydrogen in the AL2O3 none of the ammonia is being used up or converted in the reaction. The reaction is aluminum combining with oxygen from the air. My thought is that the 3 hydrogens attached to the Nitrogen could aid in the flow of electrons just like the water does. But in that process neither the water nor the ammonia would be consumed. I am not even sure as you seem to be that the ammonia is even a catalyst or much of one. The water is certainly enough of a catalyst to get the job done. I will concede that the ammonia could be a catalyst but never that it is a corrosive acid.

MF"Would it be totally unacceptable for you to keep your mouth shut when you don't know you're talking about?
Due to your unfortunate combination of ignorance and prolific posting, you are a big part of the reason why there is confusion about the corrosion issue."

Where do I start? This is your motto/mantra is it not? Why don't you live by it!

MF"I and a few others have provided the little good info on corrosion that has been posted."

Citations needed; but little does seem to be the amount of good information you have provided.

MF"Here's some cut-and-paste for you:
"catalyst - a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without itself undergoing any permanent chemical change."
Reactants are not catalysts. Period.
Keep posting ignorant crap and you will keep getting corrected.

Still on that soap box I see-NH3 is still NH3 after all the nipples are turned to dust-you stand corrected again. And just in case you are going to say that the ammonia is somehow used up but not in the final products then please account for the molecules of nitrogen and hydrogen (and by the way if this works and we get a lot of free hydrogen out of the deal we are all going to be driving hydrogen powered cars next year)

MF"I guess you don't understand that ammonia undergoes chemical reaction/change in this scenario?
Why is that not surprising.
Look at how much time is wasted because you're posting things you have no idea about.
I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who reads the forum where you're coming from and hopefully they attribute the appropriate level of credibility (zero).
The catalyst thing was just a convenient example of the type of thing you say all the time that is demonstrably false, as if you had said, "the earth is flat, so therefore..."
And I'm the one who needs things spelled out? lol"

Well do I have to explain to the world again that AL2O3 has no N or H? And please tell us about the changes ammonia goes through in this reaction. Pretty much everything you said was wrong and you just kept saying it which is what you keep accusing everyone else of.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

J273 said:


> I've just built some 29er Nextie 35mm wide 28mm deep rims. I was hoping to save a little weight over my current hope hoops (flow ex) but after building them using comps and brass nipples they are pretty much like for like weight wise.
> 
> I've not ridden them yet. I'm a tad disappointed with the weight as that was one of the reasons in building them but I'll see how they are on trails. Hopefully I'll notice a difference and the build was worthwhile.
> 
> One thing I have noticed is the shimano ice tech rotors weigh a ton, think I'll be replacing them sooner or later


Sweet stumpy dude! I have the build on my evo stumpy 29er and I saved 180 grams just in the front. That's fully built with xtr rotors. But that's compared to stock wheels.

Maybe weight wise it won't be much but wider rims as well as stiffer rim would help. Is the rim an oval shape from nextie?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*Corrosion*

Here is my experience&#8230;..maybe can help someone make a decision.

Rims = LB
Spokes = DT Swiss
Nipples = Alum
Rim tape = Stan's
Sealant = Stan's'
Location of bike = 4 Miles from the Ocean

After about 1.5 years I pulled the rim tape off to inspect the nipples. Sure enough there was corrosion with a substantial amount of material missing from the nipples. Strange part is that some of the nipples were worse than others and some of the nipples had no corrosion at all! 
Had the nipples replaced with brass (reused the spokes).

DZ


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

After pondering this for several hours, I have a theory that seems to fit all the facts. If you don't want to read all the boring stuff just scroll down to the bottom to see what I believe is a logical explanation.

First I have to say that this is just a theory and I can't prove it. It does seem to be able to explain all the believed facts though and I have tried to think of other explanations without success.

What we think we know:
1. Doesn't seem to affect road wheels.
2. Even seems to affect Enve wheels which are molded holes and only resin not carbon is touching the nipples so the conductivity should be low.
3. Seems to affect some wheels more than others and even some nipples more than others.
4. Frequent washing or wet riding conditions seem to enhance the problem.
5. Seems to attack the nipples from the very end and not so much where they are in contact with the rim.
6. The type of rim strip/tape seems not to affect the problem much-reports with Bontrager, Stans Tape, and Gorilla Tape.

I know that the general setup of the stainless spokes and aluminum nipples especially if in contact with carbon more or less becomes a weak battery with the Aluminum nipples being the anode because they have the highest galvanic response. But this should be a really weak battery and not really strong enough to break through the anodizing on the nipples. At lease not for many many years. It doesn't seem to break through the anodizing on road wheels. So I tried to picture the wheel as a unit and figure what is driving this. What is causing a massive buildup of electrons that are then oxidizing the tips of the nipples right through the somewhat resistant anodized coating. Then it hit me like a bolt of lightning (or the light bulb going off in your head). The brake disc being dragged on by the pads is a mini dynamo making millions of free electrons as it is ground on by the pads. Those electrons then negatively charging the hub which charges the spokes which charges the nipples. Then in the almost 100% relative humidity that is the inside of a rim that water has seeped into through the spoke holes, those electrons now have enough electrical potential (voltage) to break through the anodizing and facilitate the oxidation of the aluminum. The humidity combined with the higher electrical potential is all that is needed to seal the deal. As an added area to explore-I run metalic pads; I have to wonder if organic pads would generate the same amount of electrons.

This explanation fits all the knowns: 1. Road bikes until recently don't have disc brakes and also, most road riders use their brakes way less than MTB riders. 2. Enve wheels should be practically immune since their nipple holes are molded. The resin on the surface of carbon products is a very good resister-not a perfect resister, but a good resistor. Enve wheels seem to still have the problem to about the same degree. 3. Some wheels are subjected to much more braking than others and also, some wheels might be relatively dry inside the rim. 4. Dry air is a fairly good resister, humid air is not. Also, it might only be a problem with metallic pads (I suspect that it would still happen with organic pads, but to a lesser extent). I personally brake hard for a few seconds at a time since I generally ride rolling curvey courses. This would be perfect to precipitate the reaction I am describing since the voltage would get very high for a short period of time. 5. The electrons would tend to congregate in the aluminum since it is the anode of the system and at the ends of the aluminum since all the electrons in the system repel each other more of them will congregate at the end. The parts of the nipples that are the furthest out will have the most free electrons. Some nipples are affected more than others since once the anodized coating on a nipple broke down, that particular nipple would be more susceptible and require a lower voltage to oxidize in the future. So as you ride along, light braking would provide enough voltage to further oxidize that nipple but not one on which the anodizing was intact. 6. The type of rim strip/tape is not relevant since the moisture is getting in by seeping between the nipple and the nipple seat during washing or wet riding.


So my theory is that disc brake rotors become a dynamo that drives electrons thorough the wheel into the nipple ends and the moist environment in the rim allows easy oxidation. I would love to hear alternative theories that also address all the believed facts and any facts that would tend to make this theory not be viable.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> I would love to hear alternative theories


I blame the North Koreans. If they can hack Sony, they can do anything.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Your theory yourdaguy, makes a lot of sense. Very interesting indeed!


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

what wheels do you guys recommend for XC at 175 lbs?

Hookless 30mm Width x23 5mm Depth Clincher 29er Carbon Wheelset Tubeless Ready | eBay

Hookless 30mm Width 29er Carbon Mountain Wheelset Tubeless Compatible Am DH | eBay

or something else? both of those say Weight: 1560+/-30g/pair excluding skewers. are there lighter sets? is that weight accurate?

thanks.


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## eranshap (Jul 20, 2009)

Rojo

Nice looking orange spokes 

Which model are they ?

Thanks


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## BOA (Mar 4, 2013)

*Light Bicycle 29 wheelset*


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2014)

...


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Henrik83 said:


> Is carbon-bicycle the same company or just a rip-off?


They are apparently just a different seller selling the same rims. They appear to have a common manufacturer sourcing them. I bought from carbon bicycle and have no complaints.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Henrik83 said:


> 38's or 35's.... 3mm for an extra 60gr in total. I don't like weight but I sure would like som wide rims. What is the main advantage with the extra 3mm? IMO the extra weight should be more of an disadvantage then the advantage from the extra 3mm. What am I missing?


The differences are 38/31.6mm rims have a thicker hookless bead. Each side is 3.2mm thick. It should be able to handle more rim hit intensity. And the inside dimension is 31.6mm.
35/30mm rims have 2.5mm hookless beads and an inside dim of 30mm.
No probs with the CB 35/30mm rim I built for a rear.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

BOA said:


> View attachment 948357
> View attachment 948358
> View attachment 948359
> View attachment 948360
> ...


Yea the Novatec hubs really aren't holding up to that indestructible comment. Glad they work for you though.


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## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

Tonggi said:


> I'd also like to know. Only oval cf rims I know of are derby's and the 38 mm rims which may be overkill. In essence I wanna save and get Chinese since it's cheaper than derby's. 3 for the price of 2 but oval,warranty is nice. I have a set of Chinese 35 mm now and love them just wish they were oval. Aesthetic preference


The 38mm rims have thicker hookless sides...


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Also the 38mm u shape are deeper profile allowing for shorter spokes, I emailed LB and asked them about making u shaped 35mm rims. They said they would find out, but nothing as of now. I think the 38mm is overkill for 29er's, my 30mm LB rims with wide 2.30 tires are tight on the rear so the 38mm rims would cause tires to rub on rear of my Pivot 429c. I also like the u shape profile, come on LB make 35mm rims with the u shape profile !!


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2014)

...


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Look on page 262.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2014)

...


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## BOA (Mar 4, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> Yea the Novatec hubs really aren't holding up to that indestructible comment. Glad they work for you though.


I guess nothing is "indestructible"...

I have been hammering my no 1 set. 1m (3ft) drops, rockgardens with Racing Ralph wich could not handle the abuse and moved to Maxxis Ardent. Much stronger. No problems with the Novatec or more important the Carbon from Light Bicycle.

Weight 1714g with skewers on not so reliable scale


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Any opinions if any of these options is better or worse than the others and why?

I blew up a rear Easton Carbon hoop. Now I can build a set using a hub (Stealth) I have always been interested in, but never had a justified reason for trying.
Familiarizing myself with all of the rim choices was a learning curve!
So many options, but it looks like this option from Nextie what I am leaning towards ...sidewall height is 5.5mm








Although, to add to the learning curve, the 31.6/38 rim profile from Light Bicycle listed a few pages back looked like a winner as well.
I wonder what the sidewall height is on these..








Looking for people that have had previous experience with their products.

x post from wheel and tire thread. Seems to be ALOT of folks here with firsthand experience.

Thanks.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Freaking amazing the evolution that mountain bike rims have experienced by looking at this thread alone.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

And another question... rim weight. At these widths and depths it is expected to weigh more. I weigh 175 riding weight and ride pretty hard.. 3' drops to chunk, fast descents over chunk, but I do try to ride "light", float as best I can over the rough.
any thoughts on 32h 410g vs 32h 450g
for what its worth the old hoop that blew was about 375g 24h 21/28mm width with 298mm spokes


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

jlian said:


> You may want to spend a few pounds to get this excellent eBook on wheel building before ordering spokes:
> Wheelbuilding book for building bicycle wheels
> 
> After reading this book, you will likely have no need for anyone to confirm the spoke length for your rims. Also search this thread for the lively discussions on spoke length calculators including the one by prowheelbuilder.com.
> ...


Man, we have absolutely identical stories, just a few years apart. I've now done three wheel sets and never miss a chance to endorse Musson's book. Some of the best money I've spent.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

dimitrin said:


> And another question... rim weight. At these widths and depths it is expected to weigh more. I weigh 175 riding weight and ride pretty hard.. 3' drops to chunk, fast descents over chunk, but I do try to ride "light", float as best I can over the rough.
> any thoughts on 32h 410g vs 32h 450g
> for what its worth the old hoop that blew was about 375g 24h 21/28mm width with 298mm spokes


Go with the beefier rim. You won't suffer the extra 50g too much and it's well worth it for riding without trepidation in the "chunk" as you say.


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## evenflo (Apr 23, 2013)

dimitrin said:


> Any opinions if any of these options is better or worse than the others and why?
> 
> I blew up a rear Easton Carbon hoop. Now I can build a set using a hub (Stealth) I have always been interested in, but never had a justified reason for trying.
> Familiarizing myself with all of the rim choices was a learning curve!
> ...


Just curious where you found the Nextie rim on their site. They show a "newly listed" 35mm 27.5, but the link shows a 30mm rim instead.

Thanks


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

They emailed it to me when I was asking questions about offerings with the bead lock shoulder in the rim bed.... "While, we are ready to update NXT29H07, the new 35mm 29 rim to our website. It’s with a beadlock."


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

*Has anyone had problems with the tire bead not being secure*

Has anyone had any issues with the tire bead not being secure on hookless rims that do not have the bead lock shoulders in the rim bed?
According to LB, the only reason they include them is beacause customers are afraid to purchase rims with out them. According to LB, nobody ever has had a problem with burping or the bead rolling off of hookless rims that do not have the bead lock shoulders.
So it seems that they are added for marketing, since it really doesn't make an actual improvement...?
Is this correct?


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

I do not have a problem with burping on my LB 35mm hookless


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

hssp said:


> I do not have a problem with burping on my LB 35mm hookless


Just to confirm... those are hookless without bead lock ridges molded into the rim bed?


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

*Sv: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?*



dimitrin said:


> Just to confirm... those are hookless without bead lock ridges molded into the rim bed?


Yes they are!


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## evenflo (Apr 23, 2013)

dimitrin said:


> They emailed it to me when I was asking questions about offerings with the bead lock shoulder in the rim bed.... "While, we are ready to update NXT29H07, the new 35mm 29 rim to our website. It's with a beadlock."


:thumbsup: thanks


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## Dan-W (Nov 21, 2014)

Hi guys. Another great thread :thumbsup:

What is the lightest Chinese carbon rim available at the moment?

I can't seem to find lighter than the ones on Light-Bicycle at 365+/-15g. 22mm internal width is fine for me.

The tubular rims are a bit lighter but not really worth it for me with tyre choice being pretty limited at the moment.

Even the 18/19mm internal width rims from other manufacturers seem pretty much the same claimed weight (e.g. XmiPlay 19mm internal @ 350+/-15g)... so the Light-Bicycle seem like the best option both from a weight and sensible width point of view.... unless anyone knows any hidden gems around?


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

How about theses...
tubular mtb rim carbon mountain 29er XC super lightweight 27mm wide Light-Bicycle

320g


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Tubular

Tapatalk upgrade sucks. Be sure to rate this bloatware so they fix it!


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## a2gtinut (May 23, 2007)

I have been following this on and off for a while. Many love LB rims. I saw one of you mention carbonbicycle. Looks like LB and CC are the same rims but with different price tag. Are they really the same? By March I need/want to build XC race wheels with hubs from team sponsor plus CX-Ray spokes and trying to find a rim that will be reliable/light.


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## gsa103 (Sep 1, 2014)

yourdaguy said:


> After pondering this for several hours, I have a theory that seems to fit all the facts. If you don't want to read all the boring stuff just scroll down to the bottom to see what I believe is a logical explanation.
> 
> First I have to say that this is just a theory and I can't prove it. It does seem to be able to explain all the believed facts though and I have tried to think of other explanations without success.
> 
> ...


It does effect road wheels with sealant. Search for "Shimano C24 corrosion". There's a bad interaction between bare Aluminum and sealant (especially Stan's).

The C24 rims are true tubeless, without any spoke holes, the corrosion is just the rim interior. Its much less common on MTB wheels because the rim strips protect the nipples and rim from the sealant.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Those are rims not nipples. Sounds like Shimano didn't do an adequate job of anodizing the rims or used an alloy that is susceptible to corrosion. My Stans rims have been bathing in sealant for up to 6 years now with no corrosion on the rims or nipples. Also, I have a set of Shimano 7801 rims that are also no nipple hole design. They have been set up tubeless with Hutchison Fusion tires for 3 years with no corrosion so far.

This still fits my theory. The aluminum Stan's rims would hold electrons too in addition to the nipples and since the electrons would be spread over the surface of all the aluminum and the rims contact the sealant, etc. the electrons could bleed off and not be concentrated in the ends of the nipples causing the voltage there to build up sufficiently to breach the anodizing.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

I was thinking of buying myself a pair of these for the new year.

carbon 29er mtb rims 38mm wide hookless tubeless compatible strongest Light-Bicycle

I go around 200lbs, ride trails aggresively, but avoid anything more than small jumps. I consider roots and rocks to be fun.

I asked the online help if they thought the all mountain version was suitable or would they recommend the downhill version. I was surprised they recommend the heavier duty downhill rims.

I'd have thought, and still think, that the all mountain version should easily be strong enough.

It isn't a huge weight penalty to go the DH version, but I thought I was already over-building a little bit with the all-mountain version of this rim.

Thoughts?


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

Thoughts - I've seen a fair few cracked rims from rock strike in all brands . LB wide rims have encouraged people to go lower pressure and the outcome of this is rim strikes and cracked rims. LB are recommending DH rims to those that cracked their wide rims.

If you don't get rim strikes on your current rims at current pressures you'll be fine - just don't drop your pressure with the wider rims


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Wide rims or not, a rock strike would crack any rim with low psi right? 

I'm sorry of thinking the same thing. Going all mountain or dh


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

Wide rims don't crack easier , it's just the riders that start running liwer pressure - eg hard cornerers suffer burping and keep pressure up to stop burping - same rider gets wider rims which don't burp as easy and he lets out 5psi - bang - rim strike

Also Alu rims don't crack, they bend , so carbon wide does not automatically lower pressures


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

But going wider and utilizing the same psi will result in a rock hard tire no? Its like trying to run 30 psi on a fat bike tire. (Don't know scientific terms) but I have the 35 mm and went from 35 to about 25 psi. Lol. Maybe I should rethink that


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Tonggi said:


> But going wider and utilizing the same psi will result in a rock hard tire no? Its like trying to run 30 psi on a fat bike tire. (Don't know scientific terms) but I have the 35 mm and went from 35 to about 25 psi. Lol. Maybe I should rethink that


Everything depends on the factors involved. Weight, terrain and speed.
You're ok if you have enough psi so you don't get rim hits.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

I feel that riding style, riding surface (rocks, hero dirt, jumps, high speed turns, etc) and rider weight all should factoe into the tire psi on any given day. Some days I'll add a few psi because I know I be riding through the chunk, boosting off rocky ledges onto more rocky ledges and I don't want to risk rim strikes, or I may be hitting high speed turns with hero dirt and I don't want to risk rolling the bead.
My experience is that 5 psi makes a very noticable difference.
I do not know if 20 psi in a 30mm rim is firmer than 20psi in a 21mm rim.
But I plan on finding that out soon!


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

*Recent Chinese carbon rim summary*

Here is a summary of what I have found through websites and email correspondences with Light-Bicycle and Nextie&#8230;

Nextie Bike offers a 2 year warranty and has
NXT29H04: 27mm outer/22mm inner, 23mm rim depth, Weight: 360+/-10g
NXT29H06: 30mm outer/25mm inner, 25 rim depth, Weight: 380g
NXT29H07: 35mm outer/30mm inner, 28mm rim depth, Weight: 410g light version and 450g AM version
NXT29H03: 35mm outer/30mm inner, 25mm rim depth, Weight: 410g light version, 440g AM version and 520g DH version
NXT29H05: 40mm outer/35mm inner, 30 rim depth, Weight: 420g light version and 460g AM version
All have beadlock ridges in the rim bed other than NXT29H03
All Nextie rims Max Spoke Tension: 150kgf
NXT29H07 is not yet listed on their webpage, they emailed me the profile and specs.

Light-Bicycle offers a 1 year warranty and has 
RM29C06: 27mm outer/22mm inner, 24mm rim depth, Weight: 365g
RM29C02: 30mm outer/24mm inner, 20mm rim depth, Weight: 390g
RM29C07: 35mm outer/30mm inner, 25mm rim depth, Weight: 420g
RM29C14: 38mm outer/31.6mm inner, Depth 32mm, Weight: 450g light version and 500g DH version
Only RM29C14 has beadlock ridges in the rim bed. It also has thicker sidewalls, 3.2mm vs 2.5mm
All Light-Bicycle rims Max Spoke Tension: 180kgf

According to Light-Bicycle bead lock ridges are not necessary, they have only added them as a result of customer concerns about the tire being secure to the rim. Also according to Light-Bicycle they use an exclusive process to manufacture their rims. They claim it produces more uniform wall thickness and overall uniformity on the inside cavity of the rim. 
I have inquired to Nextie if they use the same facility and process.

Also I think I recall somewhere on Light-Bicycles web page that they will add additional layers/increase weight to any rim if you ask them to.

I haven't emailed Carbon-Bicycle, so I don't know anything other than what their website offers about them. They seem to offer most of the same rims as Light-Bicycle other than the RM29C14 and their webpage is of very similar design as well. They are about $15 cheaper per rim across the product range. The do list some additional data regarding testing rim strength.

That's the bottom line from about a week worth of emails and internet research. I must say that both Nextie and Light-bicycle answer all emails promptly and with seemingly quality answers to my technical inquiries.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

LB has 35/30 rims for 180. CB has that rim for 145. 70 less on a pair.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

eb1888 said:


> LB has 35/30 rims for 180. CB has that rim for 145. 70 less on a pair.


Is it exactly the same wheel? If I can save somewhere I will. I want the 38 and 35s. 38 since I'm a pretty rough rider and in weigh 240


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Tonggi said:


> Is it exactly the same wheel? If I can save somewhere I will. I want the 38 and 35s. 38 since I'm a pretty rough rider and in weigh 240


It could be a better build. I've had no problems running it as a rear in rocky rooty terrain.
Remarkable change-new manufacture process is applied for Mountain Bike(MTB) carb - NEWSLETTER - Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mountain Bike, Carbon Road Bike, Carbon Handlebar
The 38 will be stronger but heavier and cost more.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

I will also add that it seems the manufacturers / developers of these Chinese carbon rims have listened to consumers and are quick to implement improvements. Carbon rims seem to have experienced rapid evolution and affordability over the past couple of years driven by consumer feedback.
Win-win?


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Tonggi said:


> Is it exactly the same wheel? If I can save somewhere I will. I want the 38 and 35s. 38 since I'm a pretty rough rider and in weigh 240


Bro, at 175lb I have gone through 2 carbon hoops in 3 yrs. Now, granted I ride pretty hard over rugged terrain, but these were not the Light Bike, Carbon-bike, Nextie rims... these were reputable recognized name brand hoops. 
I have come to the conclusion that like anything that is ridden hard and put up wet, rear hoops probably arent going to last forever, but the stonger ones will last longer. All of Derbys rims are beefier.
If I weighed 240# and rode hard I would definately go for the beefier options.
At 175, I'm thinking that 38mm rim may be my best option as well.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

dimitrin said:


> Bro, at 175lb I have gone through 2 carbon hoops in 3 yrs. Now, granted I ride pretty hard over rugged terrain, but these were not the Light Bike, Carbon-bike, Nextie rims... these were reputable recognized name brand hoops.
> I have come to the conclusion that like anything that is ridden hard and put up wet, rear hoops probably arent going to last forever, but the stonger ones will last longer. All of Derbys rims are beefier.
> If I weighed 240# and rode hard I would definately go for the beefier options.
> At 175, I'm thinking that 38mm rim may be my best option as well.


With that said I will go 38 dh version. I'll put to test some real enves this summer on my downhill bike. If I break those then I'll just stick to Chinese carbon. Thanks for info


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

dimitrin said:


> Here is a summary of what I have found through websites and email correspondences with Light-Bicycle and Nextie&#8230;
> 
> Nextie Bike offers a 2 year warranty and has
> NXT29H04: 27mm outer/22mm inner, 23mm rim depth, Weight: 360+/-10g
> ...


Great summary. Thanks for posting. The thing I'm focused on is the side wall thickness. In the Light Bicycle RM29C14 which I am thinking of buying, the rim wall thickness is 3.2MM while in all the Nextie rims, it is 2.5MM. More carbon in the spot where rims suffer the most trail damage seems like an good thing to me. For that rim, a 100g weight penalty for the two rims going DH instead of AM is worth it. Less than 1/4 pound total for stronger rims seems like an easy decision.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Actual cross section picture of the 38mm. Compare that to the pics on derby's website and share what you think.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

Here's a picture taken from the Derby website.


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## lunna (Mar 12, 2008)

*hookless*

does hookless rim mean tubeless ready rim ?


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

It looks like the side of the rim section the tire contacts with sticks up higher on the derby. The derby rim thickness is thinner sooner heading lower in the picture, and thinner overall in this part of the rim. The inside radius of the rim is more rounded on the Derby. The upper sidewall of the light bicycle rim looks thicker, but that might be an illusion. The section that connects the left and right rim walls to each other looks thicker on the derby. What that all means is a mystery to me, but what I guess is that 
the light bicycle product looks very competative with the Derby, and given the cost difference, is the way to go.

What do you think?


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

I've asked Nextie if they could send me some actual cross section pics.
I'm hoping they oblige me.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I don't know which one is the derby, but I would want the on the right. 

Tapatalk upgrade sucks. Be sure to rate this bloatware so they fix it!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> I don't know which one is the derby, but I would want the on the right.
> 
> Tapatalk upgrade sucks. Be sure to rate this bloatware so they fix it!


Both are derby I believe. Thats off their site


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

The bead lock ridges in the rim bed of the Derby look much more defined. As does the spoke hole section of the rim. Side walls look much more defined as well.

I have other pics from LB that I will share when I get back to my laptop. We'll be able to make a better visual comparison. Especially if Nextie comes through.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

yourdaguy said:


> I don't know which one is the derby, but I would want the on the right.
> 
> Tapatalk upgrade sucks. Be sure to rate this bloatware so they fix it!


Both are derby in the picture I posted.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

dimitrin said:


> Actual cross section picture of the 38mm. Compare that to the pics on derby's website and share what you think.


Yeah, I agree the LB and Derbys do look different, although the 2 Derbys in the photo from his website look a bit different from each other too! Some of it may be the angle of the photo, but I noticed it particularly in the sidewall on the left example, where it looks tapered rather than rectangular.

The LB bead seat ridges look more like a curve of the tire bed, with uniform thickness. The Derbys have additional wall thickness too, which makes the bead seat ridges more defined as someone else pointed out.

The Derbys have a pretty uniform radius on the internal spoke bed area, whereas the LB internal spoke bed is fairly flat.

The sidewall height looks a little greater on the Derby too, although that may just be an illusion based on these other dimensional differences. Tire retention aside, I would prefer lower sidewalls just to give as much clearance, or "tire travel", before a rim strikes as possible. It seems like Stan and then other brands (American Classic) gradually lowered their sidewall heights 1-2 mm down to 3.5, but, with the concerns about hookless tire retention, everyone has bumped them back up to 5.5mm or so.

BTW, thanks for that great overview of the available models Dimitrin!:thumbsup:


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

New Ibis wide and wider offerings


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Those Ibis seem a little rougher than the Derbys, more like the LB. The Derby cut outs really do look more uniform and better proportioned. 
Although upon closer inspection the Ibis 941 does look pretty clean and uniform.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

And the pics from LB
the 27mm/22mm







the35mm/30mm







shows that all rims from LB have 3k lay up on the inside to improve spoke holes








No bead lock shoulders on any of these. That 27mm sure is a good looking cross section... but I'm pretty sure I want 35mm, if not 38mm.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

I got another one from LB. A good close up. 
I must say that Nancy from LB has set the standard for before the sale customer service with thorough and prompt replies to my questions.
Here I asked about angled nipple holes, and her reply... "Currently, our rim spoke holes are straight, no angle. If you like +/-6 degree, you can inform us once you place the order. Then we can manufacture accordingly.

It is like attached picture. Please check."
They really seem super accommodating.









She also stated in her reply..."And for Nextie or other guys, they are different from us. There are quite a few guys emailed us to check this. Please check below statement. If the rims are not from us, we will not offer warraty for those rims.

Anti-Counterfeiting Statement Light-Bicycle

Currently, most factories know our rims are popular. So they copy our rim profile drawing, to make the rims look the same. But actually the inside structure is totally different. The layup schedule and the manufacturing process will make the carbon rims with different strength. It is hard to tell all the manufacturing process here, but you know our rims are popular, and we have got high reputation. We are the leading factory in manufacturing carbon rims. Most factories are always looking at our new products and copy the same design."


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

dimitrin said:


> Here I asked about angled nipple holes, and her reply... "Currently, our rim spoke holes are straight, no angle. If you like +/-6 degree, you can inform us once you place the order. Then we can manufacture accordingly. It is like attached picture. Please check."
> 
> She also stated in her reply..."We are the leading factory in manufacturing carbon rims. Most factories are always looking at our new products and copy the same design."


That tidbit about angled drilling is new to me, thanks for posting it dimitrin! I wonder if the better spoke/nipple alignment would balance out the liability of the nip heads sitting at kind of a funky angle on the inner wall of the rim. With an eyeletted rim or maybe with washers it seems like there could enough wiggle room and deflection to still spread the load across most of the nip head, but with the straight CF inner wall, I'm not so sure.

To those who were reading this thread way back when, it looks like LB has upgraded their drilling capabilities significantly. A while back I recall someone saying that theirs looked like they were drilled by a kid with a hand drill and a dull bit, and now they are hitting 6 degree offsets!



dimitrin said:


> She also stated in her reply..."We are the leading factory in manufacturing carbon rims. Most factories are always looking at our new products and copy the same design."


I also found this interesting. They still claim to be a factory, when several earlier posters have argued very convincingly that LB is a trading company, one of many, who resells products made by other companies. It is kind of cute that things have progressed to the point where LB is now warning about counterfeit product, copying their designs but not equaling their quality of layup, whereas a year or two ago we were all talking about if these were bootleg Roval rims coming out the proverbial back door of the factory, and whether or not they were as safe and well designed as the big red "S" products. Talk about a brand building milestone!


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

TheKaiser said:


> ... It is kind of cute that things have progressed to the point where LB is now warning about counterfeit product,...


After magicshines were being cloned specifically for us bicyclist nothing they do over there surprises me


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Built up during April of 2012...

AM Chinese Carbon Wheels https://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/

Almost made it a full 3 years, but after heavy use a spoke and nipple pulled through the rear wheel rim.

Time to replace...


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dimitrin said:


> I got another one from LB. A good close up.
> I must say that Nancy from LB has set the standard for before the sale customer service with thorough and prompt replies to my questions.
> Here I asked about angled nipple holes, and her reply... "Currently, our rim spoke holes are straight, no angle. If you like +/-6 degree, you can inform us once you place the order. Then we can manufacture accordingly.
> 
> ...


I have both Derby and LB rims, but had to laugh at the irony of a Chinese company posting a statement like that.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

dimitrin said:


> Currently, most factories know our rims are popular. So they copy our rim profile drawing, to make the rims look the same. But actually the inside structure is totally different. The layup schedule and the manufacturing process will make the carbon rims with different strength. It is hard to tell all the manufacturing process here, but you know our rims are popular, and we have got high reputation. We are the leading factory in manufacturing carbon rims. Most factories are always looking at our new products and copy the same design."


Isn't this ironic?


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Very nice to see the angled spoke holes. Wonder when they will offer offset spoke beds. I know there are asian companies making some rims with this feature for other companies.


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## a2gtinut (May 23, 2007)

one of trading companies told me that their product and LB come from same plant.
Is LB manufacturer or trading company?
who to believe ?


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## cage (Jan 20, 2013)

The rims may be coming from the same plant but that doesn't necessarily mean there all the same. Each trading company could be having the rims made to THEIR specs.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Built up during April of 2012...
> 
> AM Chinese Carbon Wheels https://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/
> 
> ...


I'm remember the discourse regarding the purchase of these rims. I bought a set of the updated versions. Do you plan to obtain another LB rim? Other than the alloy nipples disintegrating, my ENVEs have held up well. Caught a stick but the rim seems fine.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

DrDon said:


> Do you plan to obtain another LB rim? Other than the alloy nipples disintegrating, my ENVEs have held up well. Caught a stick but the rim seems fine.


Yes, I will be ordering a new rim to replace. I might just do front and rear while I am at it to a bit wider version.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Do you think the wider rim version, "how wide" will be a problem on your 429c with rear clearance?


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Ok, this may be the last pic. It is from Nextie. I asked for cross section but this is all they had.









They included some clarifications...

"Yes, all rims are with 3K fiber inside rim channel protecting from spoke holes from tearing.

Yes, our NXT29H07 and NXT29H06 rims and are with pre-made carbon rings at spoke bed.

Our NXT29H03 35mm rims are without carbon rings inside, just once to make. (NXT29H03 rim is without beadlock)

Yes, rims are with continuous layer of carbon fiber.

Nope, we don't use same manufacturers as Light-Bicycle or Carbon Bicycle.

It's Ok. I understand your worries. 
We offer two years warranty on our rims in case they got cracked because the rims quality."

Well after the pics and clarifications this is what I think I have learned...
The rims all use 3k on the inside to strengthen spoke holes
Use of continuous length of carbon fiber during build seems consistent as well 
LB no longer uses rim ring, Nextie still does (mostly)
LB and CB claim the bead-lock, raised ridges on either side of the rim channel, are not required
Derby and Nextie claim they make a difference
Bead-locks may make it more difficult to open the tire up trailside to insert a tube if needed
Overall rim height varies a lot, sometimes the narrowest one being the tallest... 
CC wide rims 20mm-25mm
Derby 31mm
Nextie 25mm-30mm
LB 20mm-32mm
6* angle available with LB 
Wide rims weigh more but may ride better with narrower tire than narrow rim with wide tire. Using narrower tire may offset weight concerns yet still improve ride quality. ( I have NOT tested this, but have read it various times)
CC rims are cheapest, no bead-locks, 1 year warranty
LB has 1 year warranty
Nextie 2 year warranty
These Chinese companies are either setting a new standard for before the sale customer service, or really good B.S. artists.

questions I would like to know is...
benefits vs negatives of 20mm rim height vs 32mm rim height?
to angle or not to angle spoke holes?
has anyone had to file for a warranty claim and how did it go?


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

For me the LB after sales was just as good as before. I received a scratched rim and got an instant reply after i send a picture of the rim + the serial number. A new one is on its way.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Im using a set of 29er nextie rims 35 wide and 28 deep. Been pretty impressed with them even though ive not given them a proper test yet.


I know this is a little OT as this is a MTB forum but im looking to buy a set of road carbon rims and i think ill go with nextie again. Theres a build option of having a basalt braking surface, Is this worth going for? 

Thanks


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Are your 35mm wide 28mm deep rims the newer U shape rims?


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

dgw7000 said:


> Are your 35mm wide 28mm deep rims the newer U shape rims?


These are the ones i have


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I really like them, I think this is the rim I will get!! How long did it take then ordering? Thanks!


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

dgw7000 said:


> I really like them, I think this is the rim I will get!! How long did it take then ordering? Thanks!


Im in the UK and they took roughly 2 weeks to arrive at my house. Over a week in customs.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

J273 said:


> I know this is a little OT as this is a MTB forum but im looking to buy a set of road carbon rims and i think ill go with nextie again. Theres a build option of having a basalt braking surface, Is this worth going for?
> 
> Thanks


Yes, go with the basalt, As I understands it, having the basalt reduces the likelihood of issues due to heat build up.


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## wolv275 (Sep 27, 2012)

dgw7000 said:


> I really like them, I think this is the rim I will get!! How long did it take then ordering? Thanks!


I purchased a set of 35mm/30mm from Carbon Bicycle on Dec 20th, they arrived in AZ 7 days later. They look to be either the same company (LB) or reside on the same city block...? The price was a little cheaper than LB. They look great, and are currently being built.

Bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible, outer width AM 35.00/30.00mm & XC 27.00mm - carbon rim (beadless) - Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mountain Bike, Carbon Road Bike


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## a2gtinut (May 23, 2007)

because they are trading companies since manufacturer doesn't deal with single orders from west.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Has anyone built up the new LB 38/31.6 rims yet? I think I may pace an order soon and it'd be cool to see pics of some built up.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

rusty904 said:


> Has anyone built up the new LB 38/31.6 rims yet? I think I may pace an order soon and it'd be cool to see pics of some built up.


I placed an order for these rims a couple days ago. Expect delivery in a couple weeks. Really looking forward to getting them built up and installed.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Ladmo said:


> I placed an order for these rims a couple days ago. Expect delivery in a couple weeks. Really looking forward to getting them built up and installed.


Cool, did you go with the new decals or no?


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

No decals. Told them I wanted UD matte, with no stickers or anything else on them. I got 32 hole rims in the heavier DH version.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Ladmo said:


> No decals. Told them I wanted UD matte, with no stickers or anything else on them. I got 32 hole rims in the heavier DH version.


Exactly what I plan to order. Curious to see how long delivery takes as my last order took a month


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

Tonggi said:


> Exactly what I plan to order. Curious to see how long delivery takes as my last order took a month


My order of LB 38/31.6 rims took 10 days to arrive in SF Bayarea over the New Year (expected sooner if not for the NY holiday). UD matte 32 holes and no decals. They look really nice. I will take time to build up the wheels.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

How durable are the lb 650b 35 wheelset and also how good is the hope hubs?


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

rave81 said:


> How durable are the lb 650b 35 wheelset and also how good is the hope hubs?


Those rims take more beating than the first AM rims. Really happy with mine. Hope hubs are some of the best for function and reliability for a reasonable price tag.


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## Willyswildride (Feb 19, 2011)

Spoke Direction - Looking for some help here, I received my new rims this week. I went with 35 mm outer from Xiamen Newtopbike. They came recommended from someone in my bike club. 
I have built a few wheels ober the years but never seen a rim with a "spoke direction" sticker. I am thinking that it has something to do with the lead spoke orienting to the direction of the CF weave, but I could be wrong

Can anyone confirm what this refers to?


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

hssp said:


> Those rims take more beating than the first AM rims. Really happy with mine. Hope hubs are some of the best for function and reliability for a reasonable price tag.


Did u get the am or dh version and what is the weight?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

jlian said:


> My order of LB 38/31.6 rims took 10 days to arrive in SF Bayarea over the New Year (expected sooner if not for the NY holiday). UD matte 32 holes and no decals. They look really nice. I will take time to build up the wheels.


Cool. Thats exactly what I want as well. You have good taste.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Willyswildride said:


> Spoke Direction - Looking for some help here, I received my new rims this week. I went with 35 mm outer from Xiamen Newtopbike. They came recommended from someone in my bike club.
> I have built a few wheels ober the years but never seen a rim with a "spoke direction" sticker. I am thinking that it has something to do with the lead spoke orienting to the direction of the CF weave, but I could be wrong
> 
> Can anyone confirm what this refers to?


I believe it means that the holes are directionally drilled. That spoke must connect to the hub flange on that side. DO NOT GET THIS WRONG....it will destroy the rims if you do not....


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

Its just an arrow to point out the obvious. It is a "type B rim". Meaning the first spoke hole is offset to the right.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ghettocop said:


> Its just an arrow to point out the obvious. It is a "type B rim". Meaning the first spoke hole is offset to the right.


I think it is directionally drilled, not offset.
Directional drilling is actually pretty easy to miss unless you know what to look for and remember to check it. It's not very obvious.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I think meltingfeather has the right idea unless it is visibly offset. 

Tapatalk upgrade sucks. Be sure to rate this bloatware so they fix it!


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## Willyswildride (Feb 19, 2011)

yourdaguy said:


> I think meltingfeather has the right idea unless it is visibly offset.
> 
> Tapatalk upgrade sucks. Be sure to rate this bloatware so they fix it!


Thanks for the replys.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Question about the different finish options on those rims (the external visible weave):

Is it just cosmetic, or are some finishes more durable?


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> I think it is directionally drilled, not offset.
> Directional drilling is actually pretty easy to miss unless you know what to look for and remember to check it. It's not very obvious.


Is directional drilling not treated the exact same way as is offset when it comes to lacing?


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

ghettocop said:


> Is directional drilling not treated the exact same way as is offset when it comes to lacing?


I think with offset you have to install the rim on the hub in a certain direction (the rim is directional), but with offset drilling you can flip the rim 180 and still find the correct positions (rim is not directional)


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

I built a I9/ Light Bike 29er wheelset before the hookless rims came out. Original rims were Flows and the ERD matched without a problem.

My question now is if there is a carbon 650b rim that also matches Flow EX ERD 
(562) so I can re-use the same I9 spokes, just swap out rims, as I did with the 29er.

Looks to me like the new wide rims ERD is closer to 530/540. 

Thanks for any info!


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

CrozCountry said:


> I think with offset you have to install the rim on the hub in a certain direction (the rim is directional), but with offset drilling you can flip the rim 180 and still find the correct positions (rim is not directional)


I'm not talking about offset rims. I'm talking about spoke hole offset left and right which is correspondingly laced to either right or left flange. Directionally drilled is the same principle wherein the spoke holes appear to be drilled right down the centerline of the rim but when viewed from underneath are angled right or left. The same principle applies when lacing a wheel whether it is offset left or right or drilled left or right. Nothing changes.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Very easy to check...we have to do it with every rim we ship since ours are all directionally drilled. Drop a spoke and nipple in any of the leading holes and tip left and right to see which way it "leans" to the furthest. If it is directionally drilled, it will not be the same. Double check by verifying the next hole is the opposite.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

ghettocop said:


> Is directional drilling not treated the exact same way as is offset when it comes to lacing?


Treated the same? Not if figuring out how to lace the rim is a part of lacing.
Same level of obviousness relevant to the phrase "point out the obvious?" No.
The difference in obviousness between offset and DD is the point of my post because it is a mistake that many inexperienced wheelbuilders make. Even experienced wheelbuilders can get caught if a company (*cough* Stan's *cough*) changes the way they drill rims.


Atomik Carbon said:


> Very easy to check...we have to do it with every rim we ship since ours are all directionally drilled. Drop a spoke and nipple in any of the leading holes and tip left and right to see which way it "leans" to the furthest. If it is directionally drilled, it will not be the same. Double check by verifying the next hole is the opposite.


I've never done it on these DD carbon rims, but with Velocity rims, which are directionally drilled, it can be seen by lining up the access holes and spoke holes in the rim. When aligned they clearly point to one side or the other.
Of course, I have a lot of experience shooting compound bows, which may give me an advantage. 
I don't know how the drill rigs are tooled in the case of the carbon rims, but it makes sense for the holes to be aligned on the axis of the drilling direction if they use a single bit to drill both holes, as Velocity does.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Willyswildride said:


> Spoke Direction - Looking for some help here, I received my new rims this week. I went with 35 mm outer from Xiamen Newtopbike. They came recommended from someone in my bike club.
> I have built a few wheels ober the years but never seen a rim with a "spoke direction" sticker. I am thinking that it has something to do with the lead spoke orienting to the direction of the CF weave, but I could be wrong
> 
> Can anyone confirm what this refers to?


Can you please update if these are directionally drilled?


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## NazZaR (Jul 1, 2013)

Hello folks. Sorry for not using search button, but i am looking for answer to a question about chinese carbon rims - are they durable and safe enough? How is the experience overall? Is there any problems that anyone bumped into? Any breaks, crashes?

One local racer has broken 6 carbon rims, and he says that he was careful enough...


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

NazZaR said:


> Hello folks. Sorry for not using search button, but i am looking for answer to a question about chinese carbon rims - are they durable and safe enough? How is the experience overall? Is there any problems that anyone bumped into? Any breaks, crashes?
> 
> One local racer has broken 6 carbon rims, and he says that he was careful enough...


Do some reading


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

NazZaR said:


> Hello folks. Sorry for not using search button, but i am looking for answer to a question about chinese carbon rims - are they durable and safe enough? How is the experience overall? Is there any problems that anyone bumped into? Any breaks, crashes?
> 
> One local racer has broken 6 carbon rims, and he says that he was careful enough...


Read a dozen pages of this thread. Stop being so intellectually lazy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

So a racer is careful not to break his carbon rims !!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> So a racer is careful not to break his carbon rims !!


Best way I've found not to break stuff on my bike is to not ride it.:thumbsup:


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## wolv275 (Sep 27, 2012)

I've read the failure rate is on par with US makers, although I don't think it's a genuine scientific analysis, with the cost being so cheap I decided to purchase a set of 35/30's. I have ridden them on chris king hubs for two weeks as hard as I can on technical trails with max drops of about a foot (terrain limited). I ride AM style in AZ, the most punishing element are the jagged and rocky DH, so far they are eating up the rocks/bumps at speed like a champ (5-25 mph). I'm very happy with them.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

I purchased a set of the cross-country carbon hookless 29er rims with Hope hubs and the pilar bladed spokes from Light-bicycle in the spring of 2014. I weight 195 lbs. The riding where I live is rough and rocky. I've taken them off drops up to 2 feet many times since then and have ridden them hard. They've held up fine.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Best way I've found not to break stuff on my bike is to not ride it.:thumbsup:


I tried that, and got oil leak from rebound assembly.


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## NazZaR (Jul 1, 2013)

Thank you, guys!


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Over the last three weeks I've been borrowing a rear wheel from a friend till my I9 hubs get produced and shipped for my latest LB wheel build. The rear wheel I borrowed is a stans crest so I knew I'd have to ride with care because I know they aren't built to be ridden as hard as I ride my old LB wheelset. They were doing good for the first few rides as I felt out my new xx1 drivetrain but they things went south quickly. After my first ride in Santa Cruz I knoticed a little bit of a wobble so I through it on the stand and trued and brought everything into tension. After a few more Santa Cruz trips the wobble was back but this time there was a 1" dent in the lip from what I can only assume was a rock or root strike. Funny was I was running 5 more psi then normal and never hear a hit. Now in order the get the wheel strait I have to have the tensions a bit off in the bent area and I'm just trying to keep it alive for my race this weekend and a few more rides next week till my hubs arrive. I already ordered him a new crest rim so I can rebuild his wheel before giving it back but I'm really missing my LB wheels right now.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

How's the wheelset made by LB, does it needs tension adjustment on the spokes?


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## Willyswildride (Feb 19, 2011)

dimitrin said:


> Can you please update if these are directionally drilled?


First off, thanks for all of the replies.

The s pokes are all drilled down the centre of the rim, so i dont think they are offset drilled.
I did place spokes in a few of the holes and they are clearly angled in opposite directions, so i would think the correct term is directionally drilled.

Hope to get the time to build them up in the next couple weeks.

Cheers, 
Mike


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Directionally drilled only side to side, or also fore aft?


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

Willyswildride said:


> First off, thanks for all of the replies.
> 
> The s pokes are all drilled down the centre of the rim, so i dont think they are offset drilled.
> I did place spokes in a few of the holes and they are clearly angled in opposite directions, so i would think the correct term is directionally drilled.
> ...


Yes the correct term is directionally drilled. What I was trying to convey was the procedure for lacing the wheel will be the same as if the spoke holes were offset left and right of rim centerline. It should be treated as a type B rim.....meaning the first spoke hole to the right of the valve hole will attach to the driveside hub flange. Thus the arrow sticker on the rim. The sticker is unnecessary as you found out by examining the underside of rim.


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## Willyswildride (Feb 19, 2011)

CrozCountry said:


> Directionally drilled only side to side, or also fore aft?


Side to side only.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

deleted


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

CrozCountry said:


> Directionally drilled only side to side, or also fore aft?


Most directionally drilled rims will be done side to side. Since we don't know what the cross patterns will be. It takes some of the pressure away...not all..

If we were to design a set of rims specially for a company like I9...then it would be both angles.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Are these just rebranded nextie or LB rims? If so, who falls for paying more than double for the exact same product with decals?

Loaded Precision Rolls Wide w/ New X40 Hookless Carbon Mountain Bike Wheels


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

abelfonseca said:


> Are these just rebranded nextie or LB rims? If so, who falls for paying more than double for the exact same product with decals?
> 
> Loaded Precision Rolls Wide w/ New X40 Hookless Carbon Mountain Bike Wheels


Please do some reading on Chinese carbon rims! Nextie and Lightbike are not manufacturers. They buy the rims from a factory and resell them. Some of them are designed by the seller (Nextie, LB, etc), some by the factory. There are a couple of factories in China that make all the carbon rims, but I don't think anyone knows what factory makes rims for whom. Loaded Precision in most likely buying direct from the factory, which may or may not be the same factory that makes the Nextie or Lightbike rims. From the article, it sounds like they are testing the same rims that are available elsewhere, but when released they will be their own design. Whether that's worth the price is up to the buyer!


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

bikeny said:


> Please do some reading on Chinese carbon rims! Nextie and Lightbike are not manufacturers. They buy the rims from a factory and resell them. Some of them are designed by the seller (Nextie, LB, etc), some by the factory. There are a couple of factories in China that make all the carbon rims, but I don't think anyone knows what factory makes rims for whom. Loaded Precision in most likely buying direct from the factory, which may or may not be the same factory that makes the Nextie or Lightbike rims. From the article, it sounds like they are testing the same rims that are available elsewhere, but when released they will be their own design. Whether that's worth the price is up to the buyer!


I am aware that LB and nextie are not manufacturers, thats why I included both of them in the sentence as to point to general type of rim (cheap chinese carbon). Would've it had beed better if I said, "Are these just rebranded (fancier stickers) cheap chinese carbon rims of the likes of nextie, light bicycle, carbon bicycle....?"


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

J273 said:


>


OK, after posting up all that comparative research I have ordered two of the 450g versions of the picture above, and a single 27mm-22mm. The single 22mm inner width is to directly replace a Easton Havon that I busted.... which started this whole affair for me. 
Brian emailed me an acknowledgment of my order, clarified and corrected a spoke hole count mistake I made, and said I will receive an email once the are shipped.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

dimitrin said:


> OK, after posting up all that comparative research I have ordered two of the 450g versions of the picture above, and a single 27mm-22mm. The single 22mm inner width is to directly replace a Easton Havon that I busted.... which started this whole affair for me.
> Brian emailed me an acknowledgment of my order, clarified and corrected a spoke hole count mistake I made, and said I will receive an email once the are shipped.


You ordered from Nextie? I'm interested in getting these too so please update with your impressions of the rims once received. Thanks!


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

I ordered a 650b dh 35mm wheelset from LB, nancy told me the weight was 1783g with built hope evo 2 and dt swiss nipples and spokes. Is this the average weight for DH version? I was hoping it was sub 1600g.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

pwu_1 said:


> You ordered from Nextie? I'm interested in getting these too so please update with your impressions of the rims once received. Thanks!


Yep, Nextie.
I will be sure to post up pics/observations when they arrive. I will add that the bead lock ridges in the rim bed and the 2 year warranty are what swayed me to them. They also have a good following in the fat bike forum. Ordering off their website was very straight forward as well.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Has anyone found the ERD to be close to the manufacturer specs on your rims? I know to measure each rim before making my spoke calculations and not go by manufacturer spec. I have a pair of 35mm wide rims, and a pair of 30mm rims. Both measured about 3-4mm greater than the claimed ERD. Just didn't know if this was consistent with what other people found on their sets?


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Mine showed up today... I am building for my CX bike so I went with the XC dimension 29er rims with the all mountain layup for extra carbon. CX wheels see a LOT of abuse. They are 405g and 403g.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Alias530 said:


> Mine showed up today... I am building for my CX bike so I went with the XC dimension 29er rims with the all mountain layup for extra carbon. CX wheels see a LOT of abuse. They are 405g and 403g.


Hey, is that little line on the left of the top rim in the picture the seam of the 3k weave or is the seam somewhere else?


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

fefillo said:


> Hey, is that little line on the left of the top rim in the picture the seam of the 3k weave or is the seam somewhere else?


Seam  the identical mark is on both rims


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## jlian (Mar 3, 2008)

nspace said:


> Has anyone found the ERD to be close to the manufacturer specs on your rims? I know to measure each rim before making my spoke calculations and not go by manufacturer spec. I have a pair of 35mm wide rims, and a pair of 30mm rims. Both measured about 3-4mm greater than the claimed ERD. Just didn't know if this was consistent with what other people found on their sets?


My new set of LB 29er 38/31.6 rims has the measured ERD same as the spec - 574. I got the lighter AM version at 450g & 460g.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a complete wheelset from LB and wanted to hear your opinion / experience if my ~$1000 bucks are better utilized differently in terms of price/performance/reliability (i.e. ordering just the rims, sourcing equivalent components myself and doing a pro or homebuild).

Here's the details of the build:
Rim: RM29C14 - All Mountain
Finish: matte 3K
Holes: Front 32H/Rear 32H
Spoke: Pillar Aero X-TRA 1420
Hub: Hope 40T PRO 2 EVO 15mm/12*142mm

Thanks in advance for your input.

Note: I'm x-posting to a few of the related LB / chinese rims threads that I sub to, so I apologize if you see this in a few places.


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## mtbone (Jun 14, 2014)

So after researching a bit I'd like to know if this makes sense. I'd like to buy the following 26" rims.

wider carbon 26er bicycle wheels mountain bike downhill wheels Light-Bicycle

My question is, if the hub makes sense. I have the following cassette.

https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/sram-pg-1050-cassette

This is on a Yeti SB-66, I'll be running a 12x142mm through axle. I was debating whether or not buying chinese carbon wheels or sun ringle wheels (Aluminum). The more and more I look, the more and more I like carbon wheels.









EDIT: Hell, can't I just buy the carbon wheels and build them myself? I have a set of front and rear Sun Ringle 28-hole hubs. I would need the spokes though, I have never done that though. Any opinions?


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## 14EVOHT (Jan 21, 2014)

The XX1 free hub is only for Sram 11 speed cassettes.
Your Sram 1050 (10 sp) fits on a Shimano type free hub.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

I had two friends buy some cheap carbon wheels and I'm not sure from which company. These were extremely light road wheelsets, but let me tell you their story. Friend 1 starting breaking spokes on the back wheel. After he broke 4 or so the company sent him all new spokes, he relaced the wheel, and hasn't had problems since.

Friend 2 had brokes start breaking on the front and he's given up on his wheelset. It would be fine if he rebuilt the wheel with larger gauge spokes.

Be weary of the durability of the spokes and that is true of any wheel build.


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## mtbone (Jun 14, 2014)

14EVOHT said:


> The XX1 free hub is only for Sram 11 speed cassettes.
> Your Sram 1050 (10 sp) fits on a Shimano type free hub.


Ahhh thanks a lot, I will look into that freehub and look for good combinations with 12x142 through axles at light bicycles or other Chinese manufacturers and compare to aluminum wheelsets.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Rod said:


> I had two friends buy some cheap carbon wheels and I'm not sure from which company. These were extremely light road wheelsets, but let me tell you their story. Friend 1 starting breaking spokes on the back wheel. After he broke 4 or so the company sent him all new spokes, he relaced the wheel, and hasn't had problems since.
> 
> Friend 2 had brokes start breaking on the front and he's given up on his wheelset. It would be fine if he rebuilt the wheel with larger gauge spokes.
> 
> Be weary of the durability of the spokes and that is true of any wheel build.


Larger gauge spokes won't make a wheel more durable. Fact.

I don't know why people keep spreading this crap around. It's 100% wrong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Larger gauge spokes won't make a wheel more durable. Fact.
> 
> I don't know why people keep spreading this crap around. It's 100% wrong.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This. Double butted spokes are just as strong as straight gauge. The only reason anyone uses straight gauge is cost and they don't wind up as much as butted spokes.

Spokes can and do break due to uneven and/or low tension causing tension/compression cycles and metal fatigue. Spokes can also have stress points due to sharp angles exiting the rim or hub. I have experienced this myself with aero rims and high flange hubs.


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## wolv275 (Sep 27, 2012)

fefillo said:


> I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a complete wheelset from LB and wanted to hear your opinion / experience if my ~$1000 bucks are better utilized differently in terms of price/performance/reliability (i.e. ordering just the rims, sourcing equivalent components myself and doing a pro or homebuild).
> 
> Here's the details of the build:
> Rim: RM29C14 - All Mountain
> ...


Hey Fefillo,

I just went through this scenario a month ago. I decided to get my own parts and just order the hoops from Carbon Bicycle. Another one of the Chinese makers. These ran a little cheaper than LB @ $354 total w shipping for 29" 35mm/30mm 32H hoops.

I then found my hubs, rotors and brake pads, on ebay. Here's my breakdown.

Chinese carbon hoops: 354
CK ISO front: 185
CK ISO rear: 312
XT rotors: 70
Shimano brake pads: 58
LBS: dtswiss db spokes + build out + tubeless ready: 80

Total: $1059

So for a little over 1K I got exactly what I wanted. if the parts are exactly what you want, it should save you time, but that's about it. Hope vs. Kings is a long debate.

So far, i love my new wheels.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Larger gauge spokes won't make a wheel more durable. Fact.
> 
> I don't know why people keep spreading this crap around. It's 100% wrong.


It will not make will stiffer, that is just a function of tension, but pretty sure at some point thin spokes just can not support necessary tension. But for all practical spoke sizes, yes, no real difference.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Axe said:


> It will not make will stiffer, that is just a function of tension, but pretty sure at some point thin spokes just can not support necessary tension. But for all practical spoke sizes, yes, no real difference.


Stiffness not a function of tension... which has only been beat to rotting death a billion times on this forum and been thoroughly debunked for probably longer than you've been alive.
It actually is a function of spoke gauge... though in such minuscule relative quantities as to be likely imperceptible.
If you don't know a topic (and you know when you don't know), just leave it alone.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

wolv275 said:


> Hey Fefillo,
> 
> I just went through this scenario a month ago. I decided to get my own parts and just order the hoops from Carbon Bicycle. Another one of the Chinese makers. These ran a little cheaper than LB @ $354 total w shipping for 29" 35mm/30mm 32H hoops.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your feedback Wolv. I'm leaning now towards building myself.

I was kinda looking forward to having the bladed spokes that I get with the LB build, but getting CX Rays or aerolites is too much money.

Edit: this is what I decided: getting rims AND spokes/nipples from LB. Sourcing Hope Hubs and building myself. Will update you guys in ~month when I'm done!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dirkdaddy (Sep 4, 2007)

fefillo said:


> Thanks for your feedback Wolv. I'm leaning now towards building myself.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I built a wheel using just a new rim, on a rebuild bike, and researched just barely enough. If you are so inclined and would enjoy the research adn the process, want to buy some tools etc then go for it.

From a efficiency standpoint, find a wheel builder as they are going to know how to measure for spoke length and do it with the right tools. I hate to admit this, but not sure since I don't need to do it regularly if I'm going to mess with it again. I studied the lacing and still had to try it 2x before got it right.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

meltingfeather said:


> Stiffness not a function of tension... It actually is a function of spoke gauge...


This, assuming properly built and tensioned wheel of course. Thinner rods have more elongation per force (modulus)


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

wolv275 said:


> LBS: dtswiss db spokes + build out + tubeless ready: 80


Where the heck do you find a shop that will do it at this price including spokes? I rather build myself, but at this price sure let someone else do it.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Here's an article to add to the info base.
Debunking Wheel Stiffness - Slowtwitch.com
Three different stiffnesses are discussed,

"There are three planes of stiffness that we're concerned about with wheels: Torsional, Radial, and Lateral. 
Torsional stiffness is concerned with the 'twisting' of a wheel - for example, when you accelerate hard in a sprint.
Radial stiffness is concerned with distortion of the wheel under a radial load - for example, a bump in the road.
Lateral stiffness is all about side-to-side flex of the wheel from a lateral load - for example, when you climb and rock the bike left-to-right", corner hard and hit rocks and roots.(last added)


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## 7HVN (Jun 25, 2004)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

eb1888 said:


> Here's an article to add to the info base.
> Debunking Wheel Stiffness - Slowtwitch.com


Thanks for the link. To sum it up:



> The stiffness provided by your spokes is determined by a few things. First and foremost, the number of spokes, and their thickness (or
> 'gauge'). More spokes and *thicker spokes make a wheel stiffer* both laterally and radially. The Mavic graph below compares two different spokes to illustrate this - one of 1.8mm diameter, and one of 2.3mm diameter:
> 
> 
> ...


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

dirkdaddy said:


> I built a wheel using just a new rim, on a rebuild bike, and researched just barely enough. If you are so inclined and would enjoy the research adn the process, want to buy some tools etc then go for it.
> 
> From a efficiency standpoint, find a wheel builder as they are going to know how to measure for spoke length and do it with the right tools. I hate to admit this, but not sure since I don't need to do it regularly if I'm going to mess with it again. I studied the lacing and still had to try it 2x before got it right.


I've rebuilt a wheel before and it was not too bad of an experience. As I added in an earlier comment, I've decided to get rims and spokes from LB and do my own build.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

dimitrin said:


> Ok, this may be the last pic. It is from Nextie. I asked for cross section but this is all they had.
> 
> View attachment 952898
> 
> ...





eb1888 said:


> Here's an article to add to the info base.
> Debunking Wheel Stiffness - Slowtwitch.com
> Three different stiffnesses are discussed,
> 
> "There are three planes of stiffness that we're concerned about with wheels: Torsional, Radial, and Lateral.


Thanks. This article may have clarified an answer to my question about rim height/depth. 
It seems the taller rims will be radially stiffer, and radial stiffness may contribute to increased ride harshness.
Ride harshness from wheel stiffness is not something I am familiar with, but there is a thread floating around regarding certain carbon wheels (Enve iirc) having this trait.
Just thought I'd add another data point to consider in the decision process.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

dimitrin said:


> Ride harshness from wheel stiffness is not something I am familiar with, but there is a thread floating around regarding certain carbon wheels (Enve iirc) having this trait.


And probably not something you'd experience unless you're an experienced roadie, who's switching regularly between low spoke count, lightweight alloy wheels climbing and deep carbon rims for crits and such...


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

mattsavage said:


> And probably not something you'd experience unless you're an experienced roadie, who's switching regularly between low spoke count, lightweight alloy wheels climbing and deep carbon rims for crits and such...


Yes, back to back A-B-A testing is really the only way to improve the signal to noise ratio of a lot of the ride reports. Plus, as I am sure some of you know, the web ends up with a ton of posts from people telling you about how much stiffer carbon rims are than aluminum, but they are often comparing new, properly (hopefully) tensioned carbon rimmed wheels, with their old spanked out loose spoked alu wheels.

That's not to say that carbon rims aren't stiffer, just that without proper testing and apples to apples wheel condition, there are other factors in play.

Discaimer: Under optimal conditions, spoke tension does not play a role in wheel stiffness. The situation I referred to above was where spokes are loose enough to completely de-tension under load, which changes the whole ballgame, as Melting Feather will happily tell you. 

BTW, did Winter weather totally kill this thread or what? Where are all of the 38/31.6 rim updates?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Everyone is twisting nipples on their Winter builds. 

Tapatalk upgrade is much better!


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

TheKaiser said:


> BTW, did Winter weather totally kill this thread or what? Where are all of the 38/31.6 rim updates?


Most recent LB orders (my 38mm ordered 2 weeks ago included) are not shipping until March, due to Chinese New Year break. ;-(

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

My Nextie order of two 35mm/30mm and a single 27mm/22mm showed up a couple days ago. 
I do have a question about the valve stem drilling... on one of the rims, the inside hole through the rim bed is the same diameter as the inner spoke holes, while the other two are noticeably smaller diameter.
Is this unusual?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Have you weighed the rims?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

dimitrin said:


> My Nextie order of two 35mm/30mm and a single 27mm/22mm showed up a couple days ago.
> I do have a question about the valve stem drilling... on one of the rims, the inside hole through the rim bed is the same diameter as the inner spoke holes, while the other two are noticeably smaller diameter.
> Is this unusual?


Are the holes the same diameter in the rims you have two of?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Have you weighed the rims?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not yet, but will soon. I will post those weights when I do.



fefillo said:


> Are the holes the same diameter in the rims you have two of?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes.
The narrow rim has the larger hole. 6.6mm vs 7.6mm.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Well I have the rim weights and it looks like I might as well chronicle the after purchase process as I did the before purchase process.

At this point the main concerns are that the NXT29H07 (35mm/30mm) 28 hole rim is not the normal weight of 450g that I ordered, it is only light XC weight of 410g.









It also has surface bumps/irregularities.









The NXT29H07 32holes rim is the correct weight.









I understand this is not what I ordered and have emailed Brian at Nextie and expessed this concern...

The 28 hole rim is for the front tire, as such I have wondered if it would be just fine or even better at the lighter weight. I did order the normal weight (450g) for both because I have already cracked 2 name brand carbon hoops, although the rear each time... I'm 175# ret to ride, and often ride very aggressively over rough rocks, ledges, roots, and various chunk. Since it is the front, do any of you wheel gurus.. meltingfeather, bhowell, etc have any thoughts to offer on this?

The surface bumps picture will enlarge if clicked on, my thumb is pointing to what looks like a "streak" in the finish that is comprised of little bumps. It is minor, but still...

Additional data for the wheel gurus... the rear will be built using a 500g stealth hub and the front using a 185g BHS hub. The 50g weight discrepancy of the hoops would be a negligible non-issue at this point correct?
This is only relevant should I decide to keep the lighter weight rim.
Thanks.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

The 27mm/22mm rim weighed correctly at 355g.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Stiffness not a function of tension... which has only been beat to rotting death a billion times on this forum and been thoroughly debunked for probably longer than you've been alive.
> It actually is a function of spoke gauge... though in such minuscule relative quantities as to be likely imperceptible.
> If you don't know a topic (and you know when you don't know), just leave it alone.


[edited]. I first wrote for you to shut up and learn to read, but then noticed I wrote a runout sentence that said a different thing than I intended. But you still need to shut up.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Axe Meltingfeather knows much about wheels and is correct in his assertion. You can learn from him. However, his bedside manner could use some tweaking.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Yep. Meltingfeather is correct. After slack is out of the spokes, tension has nothing to do with stiffness. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> Axe Meltingfeather knows much about wheels and is correct in his assertion. You can learn from him. However, his bedside manner could use some tweaking.


I know. And I do know about mechanics, probably better than most around here, including him. I taught it. But if I typed something incorrectly, I forgot the "not" in the second clause, as we were talking about durability, there is no need to be a douchebag.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Three different planes of stiffness.



eb1888 said:


> Here's an article to add to the info base.
> Debunking Wheel Stiffness - Slowtwitch.com
> Three different stiffnesses are discussed,
> 
> ...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Axe said:


> [edited]. I first wrote for you to shut up and learn to read, but then noticed I wrote a runout sentence that said a different thing than I intended. But you still need to shut up.





Axe said:


> I know. And I do know about mechanics, probably better than most around here, including him. I taught it. But if I typed something incorrectly, I forgot the "not" in the second clause, as we were talking about durability, there is no need to be a douchebag.


If you know about mechanics, why did you say spoke gauge does not affect stiffness and tension does? You made two very simple statements that are flat out incorrect. ... not some incidental misstatements due to a run-on sentence.
You can boast about your credentials and cry that I'm a douchebag who needs to shut up all you want, but that doesn't do anything for your credibility after flailing on the basics. I'm assuming by "taught it" you are claiming to have been a TA or professor for first or second year engineering students, who would have taken mechanics of materials. I TA'd materials lab, so maybe it's the hands on experience that yields a better understanding of the fundamentals. 
After rereading your post you shot your own damn self in the foot with that confused crap about thin spokes not supporting tension "at some point" but that, yeah, it's not really an issue. wtf?!?


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Blah blah blah.


You are what is wrong with the Internet.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Can you two (axe and meltingfeather) please secure web cams so you can cybersexytime each other already? The sexual tension between you two is palpable and has no place in this thread.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Axe said:


> You are what is wrong with the Internet.


Misinformation is what's wrong with the Internet.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Misinformation is what's wrong with the Internet.


Oh, the humanity


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Yep. Meltingfeather is correct. After slack is out of the spokes, tension has nothing to do with stiffness.


I was curious what is the relative effect of rim and spokes on radial stiffness. A recent paper (http://opus.bath.ac.uk/1418/1/Vogwell_PIMechEC_2011_222_4_563.pdf) states 
"The study has found that, in general, the system of spokes is much stiffer than that of the rim and so the rim stiffness largely dictates the wheel radial stiffness." which sounds about what I felt. And since ring accuracy police is around - it is not just taking the slack with pretension. Spokes (lower ones when the wheel is on the ground) should not go slack under an actual load.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

These rims are pretty damn stout.

I built a wheelset for my cross bike and have hit some stuff HARD on them. My bike has disc brakes so I went with XC 29er rims in the "all mountain" layup for additional carbon, DT 350 hubs, and DT Comp spokes, 32 rear/28 front.

I didn't see a hole in the ground earlier and hit it so hard my hand instantly went numb for a few minutes. It was 6" deep and a foot across when I doubled back to look at it. Also went off a few 1ft jumps with it. This is on a fully rigid (obviously) cyclocross bike with 35mm tires and I weigh 240lbs. Only a few rides on them but I'm honestly surprised they survived what I hit earlier.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Axe said:


> I was curious what is the relative effect of rim and spokes on radial stiffness. A recent paper (http://opus.bath.ac.uk/1418/1/Vogwell_PIMechEC_2011_222_4_563.pdf) states
> "The study has found that, in general, the system of spokes is much stiffer than that of the rim and so the rim stiffness largely dictates the wheel radial stiffness." which sounds about what I felt. And since ring accuracy police is around - it is not just taking the slack with pretension. Spokes (lower ones when the wheel is on the ground) should not go slack under an actual load.


A quick scan of this paper seems that they talk about aluminum rims and steel spokes and no mention of carbon other than complete one piece wheel. From what I read in other places there is substantial difference between aluminum and carbon rims, since the carbon rims are much stiffer and bend less, which apparently is a problem for road wheels where the stiffer rims hit the brakes under hard cornering.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

What are you guys even arguing/fighting about at this point?

Axe, why don't you put table together highlighting your stance on points 1, 2, 3, etc on one column vs meltingfeather's on another... You know, for us casual readers that need to sift through your ramblings but don't actually have time to figure it out ourselves. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Whats the story with the new 36mm rim from Carboncycle? Per their specs it is significantly lighter than the 35mm and appears to have a tiny bead hook?

Bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible, outer width DH & AM 36.00/35.00/30.00mm and XC 27.00mm - carbon rim (beadless) - Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mountain Bike, Car


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Axe said:


> You are what is wrong with the Internet.


He really is a jerk, isn't he?

It should also be pointed out that a wheel with insufficient spoke tension (or any wheel really) will lose stiffness dramaticly when some spokes eventually become fully slack as the wheel is loaded.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

turbodog said:


> It should also be pointed out that a wheel with insufficient spoke tension (or any wheel really) will lose stiffness dramaticly when some spokes eventually become fully slack as the wheel is loaded.


Thank you Captain Obvious!!


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

Ordered a set of nextie 35mm AM 29er rims for my Evil The Following build. 

I have nextie 35mm AM 26" rims on my fuel with a season on them. No problems with those and hoping for a repeat on the 29er.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

That new rim from CB looks a little shorter with more internal width and a 2.6mm bead vs 2.5mm all at less weight. Now 390g. For the same price. Looks like a good option.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

dimitrin said:


> Wide rims weigh more but may ride better with narrower tire than narrow rim with wide tire. Using narrower tire may offset weight concerns yet still improve ride quality. ( I have NOT tested this, but have read it various times)


Is this the current consensus? Looking to order a set of LB wheels for the girlfriend to race XC on. I have a set of the 27mm hoops that I am going to get laced up here in the next couple weeks. If it truly provides a better ride quality and grip I was thinking she should order the 30mm version and go to the narrower 2.1 Rocket Rons/Racing Ralphs. I would love some extra opinions. One of the guys we ride with regularly got wider wheels and is running the narrower tires and says its the way to go.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Is this the current consensus? Looking to order a set of LB wheels for the girlfriend to race XC on. I have a set of the 27mm hoops that I am going to get laced up here in the next couple weeks. If it truly provides a better ride quality and grip I was thinking she should order the 30mm version and go to the narrower 2.1 Rocket Rons/Racing Ralphs. I would love some extra opinions. One of the guys we ride with regularly got wider wheels and is running the narrower tires and says its the way to go.


You get more sidewall support for a less dramatic washout threshold. 24% volume increase means good comfort at lower psi. More climbing and cornering traction. She could also run the Thunder Burt in 2.1 for a very light tire.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The Bontrager XR2 29x2.2 Team Issue at 580g are what I run during the summer on my 30mm LB rims. I used to be a Racing Ralph fan until I found the Bontrager xr2 and xr3 team issue tires, much better sidewalls, fast with better grip here on the East Coast!!


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Is this the current consensus?


I think the only consensus is that most tires work better on wider rims. Whether an extra wide rim offsets entirely switching to a narrow tire and more, I don't know if there is consensus yet either way.

Weight wise this combo usually saves weight, this is easy to calculate yourself for the specific tires and rims you plan on using.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

turbodog said:


> It should also be pointed out that a wheel with insufficient spoke tension (or any wheel really) will lose stiffness dramaticly when some spokes eventually become fully slack as the wheel is loaded.





meltingfeather said:


> Thank you Captain Obvious!!


Well then, therefore, your statement quoted below is wrong. On many real world bicycles spoke tension can be observed as being low enough that spokes become fully slack during normal use. Thus, wheel stiffeness is certainly dependant on a properly tensioned wheel (above the max per spoke compressive force the wheel will see).



meltingfeather said:


> Stiffness not a function of tension...


Pretty clearly:


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks for the quick replies everyone. Its now much clearer looking mud. haha



eb1888 said:


> You get more sidewall support for a less dramatic washout threshold. 24% volume increase means good comfort at lower psi. More climbing and cornering traction. She could also run the Thunder Burt in 2.1 for a very light tire.


Not trying to start a fight, but how do you calculate the 24% volume increase?



dgw7000 said:


> The Bontrager XR2 29x2.2 Team Issue at 580g are what I run during the summer on my 30mm LB rims. I used to be a Racing Ralph fan until I found the Bontrager xr2 and xr3 team issue tires, much better sidewalls, fast with better grip here on the East Coast!!


We really like the Rocket Rons. I feel like they grip better than the XR2's but I don't think I have tried the latest tread pattern.



CrozCountry said:


> I think the only consensus is that most tires work better on wider rims. Whether an extra wide rim offsets entirely switching to a narrow tire and more, I don't know if there is consensus yet either way.
> 
> Weight wise this combo usually saves weight, this is easy to calculate yourself for the specific tires and rims you plan on using.


Weight wise with our tire choices its a wash. 30 gm heavier rim for a 30 gm lighter tire...


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

turbodog your graphic tends to prove you wrong. There is literally no effect until all the nipples on the wheel are 2 complete turns loosened. You might as well take the wheel apart and measure again.


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

Oh my Dog, all this talk about lateral and torsional stiffness - I thought this was a mountain bike forum?

Spokes - I don't know about the rest of you, but I break spokes, so do all of my fellow riders - it is usually a stick, branch, deraileur that breaks the spoke, or damages the spoke so it breaks 2 months later.

I read 3 pages back, that it is 100% the case that thicker spokes don't build a more durable wheel! I'm sorry, but what's going on with the school system when people have no understanding of the term 100%?

Too much unbridled certainty in here, amusingly often when they are probably wrong..


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

pharmaboy said:


> Oh my Dog, all this talk about lateral and torsional stiffness - I thought this was a mountain bike forum?
> 
> Spokes - I don't know about the rest of you, but I break spokes, so do all of my fellow riders - it is usually a stick, branch, deraileur that breaks the spoke, or damages the spoke so it breaks 2 months later.
> 
> ...


My understanding is that more material (ex: straight gauge spoke) = STIFFER wheel and that butted spokes = more DURABLE wheel and in some situations that would cause a broken spoke would result in a flexing spoke instead.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> You get more sidewall support for a less dramatic washout threshold. 24% volume increase means good comfort at lower psi. More climbing and cornering traction. She could also run the Thunder Burt in 2.1 for a very light tire.


This is what I wanted to experiment and built my racing wheelset from 33/27 mm front 35/30 mm rear using CB hookless rims, 2.0/1.5 spokes, brass nipples and ride only Thunder Burt tubeless.

And result was exactly like stated. Very happy and confident that burping isn't gonna happen easily...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

I think a lot of the confusion is because most of the science on spokes is done on road wheels. Loose spokes are more a mountain bike issue than a road issue. Road bikes don't slam into things at high speed creating radial loads that can make the spokes go completely loose. And then there is the landing, road bikes don't leave the ground. Landings IMO are the worse form because you get radial loads enough to loosen spokes and if not landing perfectly straight side loads big enough to bend a rim sideways. Combine the two together and you got a taco. Hardly a concern on a road bike where completely loose spokes are not part of the evaluation (so they can get away with less tension and less spokes).


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

mhelander said:


> This is what I wanted to experiment and built my racing wheelset from 33/27 mm front 35/30 mm rear using CB hookless rims, 2.0/1.5 spokes, brass nipples and ride only Thunder Burt tubeless.
> 
> And result was exactly like stated. Very happy and confident that burping isn't gonna happen easily...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Where did you order 33/27 rims ?


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

BartP said:


> Where did you order 33/27 rims ?


Edited: I think he is referencing CarbonBicycle.cc which is the source of that new cross sectional image several posts up.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

All

I'm seriously considering my first carbon rims but here in PL in my surrounding everybody says that For Light Enduro only ALU is a way to go.
So was advised to go with FlowEX or Ex 471 as they can handle a lot (i'm 185LBS) and considering to spend more and stay on light side (200g to save on set)

But main Question is.
Would You Consider RM29C07 
35mm wide 29er rims beadless for bicycle trail or mountain bike enduro with tubeless compatibility Light-Bicycle

for this kind of trails:




 (nasty rocky and rooty)?


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

36 spoke count should help toughen them up. IMO... I Don't prefer carbon because of weight alone, mostly it is for the reliable increase in stiffness.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

So You wouldn't consider them with 28 straight pull spokes for mentioned trails?



dimitrin said:


> 36 spoke count should help toughen them up. IMO... I Don't prefer carbon because of weight alone, mostly it is for the reliable increase in stiffness.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TheKaiser said:


> Edited: I think he is referencing CarbonBicycle.cc which is the source of that new cross sectional image several posts up.


Maybe I'm looking at a different cross section, but that's for a 36/30.8, nay?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Placek said:


> So You wouldn't consider them with 28 straight pull spokes for mentioned trails?


I would only ride straight pull wheels if they were given to me.

With a bag of spares.

Nothing inherently wrong with them, but most bike shops won't stock a straight pull spoke of all common lengths. J-bend? Most likely.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

I always order some more spokes to have spare ones "in case..."
However here i'm more interested in Your opinion of those 30mm(internal) rims for enduro... no way to find any examples/pics/movies of traills people are using their LB wheels.



Le Duke said:


> I would only ride straight pull wheels if they were given to me.
> With a bag of spares.
> Nothing inherently wrong with them, but most bike shops won't stock a straight pull spoke of all common lengths. J-bend? Most likely.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

yourdaguy said:


> turbodog your graphic tends to prove you wrong. There is literally no effect until all the nipples on the wheel are 2 complete turns loosened. You might as well take the wheel apart and measure again.


You've clearly never worked in a bike shop tuning up the general public's bikes.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

turbodog said:


> Well then, therefore, your statement quoted below is wrong. On many real world bicycles spoke tension can be observed as being low enough that spokes become fully slack during normal use. Thus, wheel stiffeness is certainly dependant on a properly tensioned wheel (above the max per spoke compressive force the wheel will see).
> 
> Pretty clearly:


lol
That is the figure Damon Rinard uses to demonstrate that stiffness is *not* a function of tension (until tension is zero). The page you got that figure from lays all this out in detail. I guess you didn't read it or couldn't understand it?
Here's a quote from the section that you got the figure from that maybe you can understand:


Damon Rinard said:


> Some believe that a wheel built with tighter spokes is stiffer. It is not. Wheel stiffness does not vary significantly with spoke tension unless a spoke becomes totally slack.


then again, maybe that already got by you. :nonod:
Hey, did you know the seat staying up is a function of the seat post clamp being properly tightened? I never worked in a bike shop, but a wrench once explained it to me and it makes total sense.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Maybe I'm looking at a different cross section, but that's for a 36/30.8, nay?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, that cross section is for a different rim model than the 33/27mm model the BartP was asking about. I was simply referring to that image as most likely originating from the same vendor. We all know LB is "Light Bicycle" but CB is not as familiar an abbreviation and that image was a handy reference, but I see now my citation may have caused some confusion.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

While we are talking about it, that 33/27 rim that mhelander mentioned sounds like some pretty good dimensions for anyone who is not quite ready to jump on the mega wide bus, but is also concerned with rock strikes. 27mm seems like it is wide enough to support everything but "+" sized tires, even if you might argue that it is not totally optimal, and I dig the 3mm sidewall thickness of that model.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

TheKaiser said:


> While we are talking about it, that 33/27 rim that mhelander mentioned sounds like some pretty good dimensions for anyone who is not quite ready to jump on the mega wide bus, but is also concerned with rock strikes. 27mm seems like it is wide enough to support everything but "+" sized tires, even if you might argue that it is not totally optimal, and I dig the 3mm sidewall thickness of that model.


All this talk aroused my curiosity so I just tracked down the cross section for the 33/27. For anyone interested, it is on the upper left at this link: New wider bead hook-less carbon rims 26er DH/AM & 27.5er (650B) AM & 29er AM/XC - NEWSLETTER - Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mountain Bike, Carbon Road Bike, Carbon Handlebar

That is pretty f-ing light for that width and sidewall thickness!


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Placek said:


> So You wouldn't consider them with 28 straight pull spokes for mentioned trails?


Yes I would consider them. At 420g they may be just fine for a 185# rider, especially if you don't ride any harder than the guys in that video. You should email Light Bicycle, Nancy is very thorough with her replies. Ask what her opinion is on those rims for your weight for enduro over rough rocks. I have read that they can increase the carbon lay up if requested.
Their before the sale customer service is top notch.

Btw, which 28h straight pulls hubs you planning on?
Folks with straight pull hubs should always have extra spokes on hand, especially when traveling. Those can be a real pita to locate. During a mtb vacation to Oregon I snapped a spoke and had to call Easton and find out the nearest bike shop that stocked them. I got lucky that Easton was helpful and the shop had some in stock to sell me.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Placek said:


> All
> 
> I'm seriously considering my first carbon rims but here in PL in my surrounding everybody says that For Light Enduro only ALU is a way to go.
> So was advised to go with FlowEX or Ex 471 as they can handle a lot (i'm 185LBS) and considering to spend more and stay on light side (200g to save on set)
> ...


You can break anything, but these will last longer because of the thicker bead.
carbon 29er mtb rims 38mm wide hookless tubeless compatible strongest Light-Bicycle

I would build 32 J spoke hub wheels. Not straight pulls or 28 count.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Not trying to start a fight, but how do you calculate the 24% volume increase?


I just got it from someone else's post. The absolute amount isn't the best news, you really notice the increase in volume is the important part. And you can run 4-5psi less without getting rim hits when riding your home trails. So you notice the increased traction from the lower psi and increased footprint. And you don't get the sidewall rollover from the lower psi you get with a skinny rim. The width ups the sidewall support. You just don't washout as much anymore. So you don't hit the ground as much or maybe at all.
That helps you like the wide rims a lot.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

eb1888 said:


> You can break anything, but these will last longer because of the thicker bead.
> carbon 29er mtb rims 38mm wide hookless tubeless compatible strongest Light-Bicycle


Thicker but the bid also looks shorter that the 35mm. I wonder if there are more burps or tires rolling off the rim with those. Does anyone have experience with them?


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

I'm in touch with Nancy so no problem to ask for advise also however She has more theoretical knowledge like "take this as sidewalls are thicker" and my intention was to hear real-world users ex those who ride some long travel 29ers and can confirm stiffness and truing need.

I never move on longer trips without separate spokes. Have them in my backpack next to Camelback and DWR Jacket - so no big deal.



dimitrin said:


> Yes I would consider them. At 420g they may be just fine for a 185# rider, especially if you don't ride any harder than the guys in that video. You should email Light Bicycle, Nancy is very thorough with her replies. Ask what her opinion is on those rims for your weight for enduro over rough rocks. I have read that they can increase the carbon lay up if requested.
> Their before the sale customer service is top notch.
> 
> Btw, which 28h straight pulls hubs you planning on?
> Folks with straight pull hubs should always have extra spokes on hand, especially when traveling. Those can be a real pita to locate. During a mtb vacation to Oregon I snapped a spoke and had to call Easton and find out the nearest bike shop that stocked them. I got lucky that Easton was helpful and the shop had some in stock to sell me.


Above Trail (YT link) i rode with Crests with no issue but had to be really carefull about line and speed - just couldn't spread my wings/cranks

FOr sure everythink can be demolished but when i saw Gwin in Leogang than thought - i want that EX471 (530g).
..after digging forums it appeard that now "wide and stiff" matters more

and got to LB
With FInall call for:

35mm - RM29C07
AM 420g
DH (from what i understand) ~470g

38mm - RM29C14
AM 450g
DH 500g

35mm AM - good improvement over weight EX471 - but enough for Enduro ?
35mm DH in the same range as 38mm AM - so run for wider?



eb1888 said:


> You can break anything, but these will last longer because of the thicker bead.
> carbon 29er mtb rims 38mm wide hookless tubeless compatible strongest Light-Bicycle
> I would build 32 J spoke hub wheels. Not straight pulls or 28 count.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

CrozCountry said:


> Thicker but the bead also looks shorter that the 35mm. I wonder if there are more burps or tires rolling off the rim with those. Does anyone have experience with them?


Their design includes an interior ridge to help stop burping and roll off. If you get too low for pressure you can probably still get a failure of some kind.

"* Bead lock: the small ridges on either side of the drop channel. Some riders concerns the transition to hookless rim profiles will cause tyres blowing off or an increased likelihood of burping air from tubeless tyres. So we add bead lock ridges to make them without any fear and ride confidently."

Derby rims also have this.



Placek said:


> Above Trail (YT link) i rode with Crests with no issue but had to be really carefull about line and speed - just couldn't spread my wings/cranks
> 
> 35mm - RM29C07
> AM 420g
> ...


The DH 500g version of the RM29C14 looks like the strongest wide rim you can get.
Second choice would be the AM 450g version which may be enough for you with the right tire pressure for the terrain conditions.
Either will be a giant step up from Crests.
I would not go 28 spoke especially on the rear.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

I'm looking at the Nextie 29er 35's and 30's running Bontrager XR3 2.3's on my Trek Fuel for XC/Trail riding. What do you guys think? I am leaning towards the 35's, but I am a bit concerned with rear swing arm clearance. I think the front Fox fork will be fine.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

eb1888 said:


> The DH 500g version of the RM29C14 looks like the strongest wide rim you can get.
> Second choice would be the AM 450g version which may be enough for you with the right tire pressure for the terrain conditions.
> Either will be a giant step up from Crests.
> I would not go 28 spoke especially on the rear.


Spoked winth Nancy
She advised 38mm AM with possibility to choose the lightest units they can sort of rims actually stocked.
The onl;y concern now is the Spoke amount and way of mount.
My local Wheelbuilder advised me to go with 28 but SP as this way of stronger tensioning is free from bending as spokes are truerly straight.
I'm not a specialist however from logical point of view (even DT allowed that) it makes sense.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Placek said:


> Spoked winth Nancy
> She advised 38mm AM with possibility to choose the lightest units they can sort of rims actually stocked.
> The onl;y concern now is the Spoke amount and way of mount.
> My local Wheelbuilder advised me to go with 28 but SP as this way of stronger tensioning is free from bending as spokes are truerly straight.
> I'm not a specialist however from logical point of view (even DT allowed that) it makes sense.


I build my own wheels and I wouldn't go with straight pull. First off, you don't need high spoke tension with the stiffness of a carbon rim. 120kgf drive side is more than enough. I would look for another wheel builder familiar with mtb carbon rim builds. He sounds like a road bike wheel builder.
Second, you get a lot more point stress from trails. You can more easily pull the end of a spoke through a straight pull hub flange. Not as easy with a j bend hub.
For those trail conditions I would go 3 cross 32 spokes for both wheels.

You could easily lace your own wheels. The stiff carbon rims are easy to get right compared to more flexy aluminums.
A Park TM-1 tension gauge makes it fun.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

cycloxer13 said:


> I'm looking at the Nextie 29er 35's and 30's running Bontrager XR3 2.3's on my Trek Fuel for XC/Trail riding. What do you guys think? I am leaning towards the 35's, but I am a bit concerned with rear swing arm clearance. I think the front Fox fork will be fine.


With the 35s you can get away with a XR2 if you need to. Stiil have more volume at a lower psi for better traction.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

If it were me, I would go 32 hole j-bend front and rear, 2 cross with Sapim laser spokes with Lilly 14mm alloy nips. I don't see any benefit to 28 hole other than very slight weight savings. The lite spokes with the alloy nips will help save some weight, Straight Pull spokes are hard to get. Seems like a lot of rim for only 28 spokes, just my two cents !!


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Placek said:


> Spoked winth Nancy
> She advised 38mm AM with possibility to choose the lightest units they can sort of rims actually stocked.
> The onl;y concern now is the Spoke amount and way of mount.
> My local Wheelbuilder advised me to go with 28 but SP as this way of stronger tensioning is free from bending as spokes are truerly straight.
> I'm not a specialist however from logical point of view (even DT allowed that) it makes sense.


Bro your getting a lot of good solid advice from the above members. I particularly agree with not going below 32h, especially on the rear. 
I have owned a couple of wheel sets that had straight pull spokes, I9s and Easton. Both of those were laced to UST hoops which did not require rim tape. The benefit of the straight pull was its relative ease of replacement when one would break. No need to even deflate the tire, super quick and easy.
These hoops are not UST, and will require you to remove the tire and the rim tape, thereby negating the only real benefit to using straight pull spokes.

Here is a link to a page that has a lot of comparison info from the different hoops being discussed... http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/cheap-chinese-carbon-rims-673410-268.html

Any idea which hubs you or your builder had in mind?


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

And keep in mind the fact that Nancy got back with you during the Chinese New Year holiday counts for something as well.
Nextie has not gotten back with me regarding an issue, and their website says they will return after Mar. 1... after the holiday.
Customer service counts for a lot with these transactions.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

There is a lot to be said for the simplicity and effectiveness of 32 hole 3X. You can save a few grams with other lacing methods, but at a compromise.

I am leaning towards light 35's even for my XC/Trail application. I don't race anymore, so ultimate light weight is not that important. That said, I do still like to ride fast and hard. I have been riding a Fatboy all fall and winter with 90's and I am blown away by the ride quality and feel of wide tires and rims. It is just so awesome.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Yea I have been beating my head against the wall about what rim to get for my new Pivot 429sl 29er. I do about 4 to 5 races each year but really just love to ride any time I can. I want to go wide but without the weight penalty. My 30mm external LB rims have held up amazingly well, the 38mm may just be to wide and heavy but I love the new profile of that rim. The Derby rims are nice but also just a bit heavy, the NOX are more money! I like the Farlow 29er from NOX, at 430g 35mm ex and 29mm internal and 25mm depth with offset drillings. American Company.

Light Bicycles has always answered all my questions and service has been great and can almost get 2 rims for the cost of just one NOX rim.

Well right now here's what I will get for this build. Onyx hubs with Sprag clutch that make no sound, infinite engagement, almost no drag, center lock, any color and trade up program. They are a bit heavy 461g for the rear with XD driver that's the price you pay for all steal driver and sprag clutch. The rotational weight is what I feel should be keep low with the big 29er wheels.

Lilly Nipples are the best you can get, any color each one individually anodized and come in 12, 14 and 16 mm. Chris King uses them in their wheel builds and apparently match CK ano. Sapim spokes probably do the Laser since the same weight as CX Ray and 1/3 the cost. All my 29er wheels get 2 cross and I know 3 cross is mostly used. I just like it, It feels right !!


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

...so what rims are you doing? I am really torn between the lighter 30's and the wider 35's. It probably doesn't matter anyway for my uses.


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

I have a set of Light bicycle wheels in 26x33mm wide hookless. I've had them for ~6 months. I've had nothing but rear pinch flat problems at anything less than 35psi.

I'm ~170 with gear and riding an Intense 5.5. Terrain is similar to what you would see in the Denver front range, pointy sharp rocks.

First 2 rides, I pinch flatted brand 2 brand new tires while tubeless, A conti mountainking and a WTB weirwolf at around 30 psi. Since I'm not made of money, I'm running a conti DH tube in the rear and anytime my pressure goes below 35, I'm guaranteed to pinch flat.

Once the tread wears out on my "new" tires, I plan on buying a tire with a beefier sidewall. I'm also excited about Schwalbe's proCore system. I'm hoping the combination of ProCore and a beefier tire will let me get down into the mid 20's like what I read about. While protecting me from rock strikes and pinch flats.

I run 30 psi in the front, but hesitate to go any lower, given my propensity towards pinch flats.

So I guess my experience has been one of frustration as I have not been able to take advantage of the main selling point of wider/lighter carbon rims, which is the ability to ride with much lower PSI.

Otherwise LB's build has been good, the novatec hubs are fine, and the wheels are light.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Why aren't you running tubeless on hookless rims? That was their design intent.


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## Dan-W (Nov 21, 2014)

How on earth do you pinch flat a tubeless setup? By definition that isn't possible


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

cycloxer13 said:


> ...so what rims are you doing? I am really torn between the lighter 30's and the wider 35's. It probably doesn't matter anyway for my uses.


That Nextie 35mm wide, 30mm inner and 28mm high looks like a great rim, but I don't see it on their site. eb1888 is right with the wide 35mm rim you could go lighter on the tire with Bontrager XR2 a great tire by the way!! All of the new Bontrager Team Issue XR2, XR3 and XR4 are my favorite tires now. I have the XR4 2.30 on front now for the snow and the Bongtrager mud tire on rear 2.0 this little tire really grips in mud and snow. This tire has much lower volume and still running 22psi, I have had a few rim strikes on rocks. No damage to rim at all!

Check pict out of Onyx hub and Lilly Nipple.


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

I am running tubeless in the front. And I was in the rear. Until I pinch flatted 2 brand new $65 tires 2 rides in a row. Both unrepairable since one of the cuts was right at the bead. So I am running DH tubes in the rear now with sealant and anything less than 35 psi, I pinch flat the tube.
Once I wear out the tread on the tires, I hope that between a heavier sidewalled tire and ProCore I can gain the low pressure/traction benefits and solve the pinchflat issue.

I don't know the 'why,' all I am relating is that my experience with tubeless and wide LB carbon rims has not been all flowers and rainbows.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Are you doing major drops or jumps?

I'm 240lbs and run 18psi up front on normal width rims with no issues. Dhf 29x2.5

Mid/upper 20's in the rear, DHR2


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

Dan-W, How so? Whether a tire is tubed or not, rim to rock compression of the tire and the result is the same. 2 parallel cuts in the tire if running tubeless or 2 parallel (usually longer) cuts if running tubed. Call it whatever you want, but in my book the mechanism is the same, thus its a tubeless pinch flat.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Dan-W said:


> How on earth do you pinch flat a tubeless setup? By definition that isn't possible


I'll be second one to say... Certainly possible. Probably less likely and harder to achieve than pinch flatting a tube, but you CAN pinch flat a tire!

Hell... You could even pinch flat your tube + tire at the same time in the right circumstances (i.e. big hit + low pressures + weak sidewall tire + rocky terrain + stiff/thin rim bead wall)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

No. JRA, rocky terrain. Shoot, I pinch flatted going up hill a couple rides ago (tubed) at no less than 30 psi. wth? 

All I'm sharing is that for some reason I have not been able to achieve the benefits everyone else has. And I have no idea why.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

laksboy said:


> No. JRA, rocky terrain. Shoot, I pinch flatted going up hill a couple rides ago (tubed) at no less than 30 psi. wth?
> 
> All I'm sharing is that for some reason I have not been able to achieve the benefits everyone else has. And I have no idea why.


At 170# and 30-psi this should not be happening and I would be really pissed if is was junking tubes and tires with this setup.

You may have mentioned it earlier... But have you tried different tires? Something with beefier sidewalls? If you are already having to replace tires, get something different.

Also... Did you order the LB rims with the sharpened bead wall? ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

Thanks for the validation! My problem is that so far my experience with these rims is that it doesn't even take a big hit to pinch flat. I've gotten way more pinch flats on this setup than I ever did on my old Mavic 817s. My only performance gain is that the wheels are lighter.


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## Michael Ede (Sep 8, 2014)

Alias530 said:


> These rims are pretty damn stout.
> 
> I built a wheelset for my cross bike and have hit some stuff HARD on them. My bike has disc brakes so I went with XC 29er rims in the "all mountain" layup for additional carbon, DT 350 hubs, and DT Comp spokes, 32 rear/28 front.
> 
> I didn't see a hole in the ground earlier and hit it so hard my hand instantly went numb for a few minutes. It was 6" deep and a foot across when I doubled back to look at it. Also went off a few 1ft jumps with it. This is on a fully rigid (obviously) cyclocross bike with 35mm tires and I weigh 240lbs. Only a few rides on them but I'm honestly surprised they survived what I hit earlier.


Alias530, what size rims are you running and from which supplier? Looking to take the rims wide on my CX and looking to run WTB Nano 40C tyres. I am a little worried about the low max pressures on the light bicycle rims and thinking of either going for some HED Belgium+ (25/20 in Alu.) or some Nextie 27/22 rims, haven't seen anyone offering different lay ups in the narrower rims? I am currently hover around the 220lb mark so would like something durable rather than feather light!


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

No seriously. I've wondered if I got a bad pair with a sharpened bead wall. And I always get crap from my wife, "you spent how much on these and flatted again???" 
I also wonder why the rim sidewall needs to be so high. The tire bead barely stretches to the base and there is no way the bead could come off the rim

I need to try a heavier duty sidewalled tire, but am committed to being frugal (and frustrated) while I use and wear out the tread on the tires I have...


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## Dan-W (Nov 21, 2014)

I would call that a sidewall/ bead failure and would be blaming the tyres not the rims. Pinch flat is two small holes from pinching on the rim IMO which should absolutely not happen tubeless... but I can appreciate the difference in terminology.

At 170lbs I would also invest in a digital pressure gauge if you haven't already as 30psi is very high for your weight- 30psi on my track pump is more like 23-24psi in reality


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

Dan, I agree that it would seem that the tires could be at least partial to blame. The hole in the tread was fixable, but do to the close proximity to the bead, the holes in the sideways are not. Regarding the pinchflats I'm seeing in the tubes, they are anything but small. They are always at least 1/4" long and approaching 3/8". On a high quality conti DH tube. I sometimes wonder if I got the "special" Light bicycle rim with sharpened sidewalls.

Regarding the guage. I hear you and plan on it just to confirm. But I've been riding for a long time and pumped up lots of wheels in the last 20 years, I wrenched for several years, etc. I know what "firm" feels like and 35psi on my pump has always been firm enough. 

At the end of the day all I know is I have never had as many pinch flat (tubed or tubeless) issues as I have had with these rims. The comparison isn't even close.


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## Orembiker (May 17, 2007)

Has anyone had issues with their nipples snapping? I've only had my wheels for 2 months, with less than 300 miles on them, and a nipple just snapped off overnight... 

I've got the Pillar PT 734 nipples and I had light-bicycle build up the wheels


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

laksboy - hard to believe you are pinch flatting tubeless at 35psi, or any psi. I run the LB 30mm exterior 29er rims with bead hooks at 20-23psi with 2.2 maxxis ikons tubeless and have never pinch flatted in 2 years. I ride mostly front range Colorado but all over CO and Utah. I also weigh a few pounds more than you at 170-175 nekkid.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Really...? Happens all the time with thin casings...


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

I don't blame you. I plan on trying a set of minion dhf's sooner than later. By all other accounts on this thread I should have no problem running 20-25 psi easy. In 20+ years of riding, I've never had this much trouble before.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Yeah something sounds not right. I have regularly run 3 psi in my fat bike 90's with no issues. I realize it is a different setup, but I have bottomed that out many times.


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## Andy17 (Sep 18, 2011)

I have had 2 pinch type flats at rim running 20-25lbs tubeless. I've been running WTB weirwofl tires. The last one was a rock hit at 25-30mph so it "could" have happened to any rim but with the other pinch flat I'm thinking it may be the tall side wall to the rim. Yes maybe it has been sharpened lol. These rims , the 35mm outside hookless rims, do not feel good to me when you run more than 28lbs in the rear and 23 up front. I am guessing it is the air volume the tire has with the wide rim, which has been beat to death here in the thread. Over all I do think its the taller sides of the hookless rim. It's not a huge issue but after a year and a couple thousand miles I have had more issues with this type of flat. I have been very pleased with the rims other than that and I should try a different tire but like these tires.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

@Laksboy 

It's hard to offer advice here without coming across a biotch but. . . . . . How "heavy" do you ride ? 
Some people have a very light style and seem to get away with tons that would have others busting up tyres , rims , wheels etc. 

Maybe it's a combo of line , riding style and tyre choice or even the rim itself ? 

Do you always look for the smoothest line ? Or do you plough on through regardless ? After all what's the point of having full sus if ya ain't gonna use it , right ? 

Maybe you could get one of your buddies watch ya ride and examine your lines to see if you could have chosen better ? 

As has been said the pressure and equipment you're using and the speeds you say you're going at this should NOT be happening as often. 

Don't mean to seem harsh. Just clutching at straws here trying to help ? 

Peace



fat Biker


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

@Andy17

You've had 2 pinch-type flats or "after a year and a couple thousand miles I have had more issues with this type of flat?" I'm not sure I follow...
The rim height does seem extra tall to me. And if it were shorter, it would reduce the chance of pinching. With tight fitting tires (like the weirwolves) there's no chance they'd ever come off. I have to pump them up to 65 psi before they'll full pop.
Thanks for your input.


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

@fatbiker,
No offense taken at all and all valid questions. The only think that has changed in my riding equation has been these wheels. I still ride the same lines, the same way. The only thing I have changed is that now I pay more attention to what pressure I am riding because of all the problems I have and the knowledge that for some reason I can't seem to go as low as everyone else. And I still flat more than I used to.

I would say that I'm a light rider. I rarely have to true my rims, and I've only dented one, 20 years ago in HS, when I used to run super low pressure because that was the only "suspension" I had.

I appreciate all the input. It seems my best path forward is a burlier tire, a digital pressure gauge (just to confirm), and probably ProCore.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Well
After contacting my WB mechanic he mantioned that the advantage of Straight pull spokes is physics.
The tension could be the same as J-bend, however straight spoke doesn't put tension to "bend" place making the stress spraded all over the wheel.
By that usage of 32 ones is unnecesarry.

Once again i'm not convinced to any solution so this is why i ask questions here.



dimitrin said:


> Bro your getting a lot of good solid advice from the above members. I particularly agree with not going below 32h, especially on the rear.
> I have owned a couple of wheel sets that had straight pull spokes, I9s and Easton. Both of those were laced to UST hoops which did not require rim tape. The benefit of the straight pull was its relative ease of replacement when one would break. No need to even deflate the tire, super quick and easy.
> These hoops are not UST, and will require you to remove the tire and the rim tape, thereby negating the only real benefit to using straight pull spokes.
> 
> ...


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Man, I have a set of DT Swiss 240s straight pull hubs, DT Comp Spokes, Brass Nipples and 35mm carbon rims in hand. This thread has gotten me second guessing even building them as the build may turn out not stiff/strong enough. I ride Roval Control Carbons 32h built on DT Revs. If the new build is not stiffer I'm going to cry. For real.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

bigdrunk said:


> Man, I have a set of DT Swiss 240s straight pull hubs, DT Comp Spokes, Brass Nipples and 35mm carbon rims in hand. This thread has gotten me second guessing even building them as the build may turn out not stiff/strong enough. I ride Roval Control Carbons 32h built on DT Revs. If the new build is not stiffer I'm going to cry. For real.


This will be stiff. Trust me. Comps are a waste of material, though, unless you weigh a lot.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

No t sure if i get the sarcasm or my eng is too weak.Should i really worry about 28SP or this is just discussion about oranges and lemons ?



hssp said:


> This will be stiff. Trust me. Comps are a waste of material, though, unless you weigh a lot.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

My experience is that the rims are stiff enough by them, so even with skinny spokes, the wheels are stiff. I am using Pillar 1420 spokes on my 27.5" 35mm and they keep up for enduro racing


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

hssp said:


> This will be stiff. Trust me. Comps are a waste of material, though, unless you weigh a lot.





hssp said:


> My experience is that the rims are stiff enough by them, so even with skinny spokes, the wheels are stiff. I am using Pillar 1420 spokes on my 27.5" 35mm and they keep up for enduro racing


So i see J-Bend version?

X-TRA
無標題文件 
or BUTTED 
無標題文件

And 32 or 28 setup ?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

bigdrunk said:


> Man, I have a set of DT Swiss 240s straight pull hubs, DT Comp Spokes, Brass Nipples and 35mm carbon rims in hand. This thread has gotten me second guessing even building them as the build may turn out not stiff/strong enough. I ride Roval Control Carbons 32h built on DT Revs. If the new build is not stiffer I'm going to cry. For real.


Huh? Why wouldn't it be?

Comps are thicker than Revolutions. Thicker = stiffer.

But, I'd wager most of the difference in what you feel will come from the rim, as opposed to the spokes.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

So I decided to go Nextie 30's 28 hole, Hope hubs, Wheelsmith DB14's, brass nipples, laced 3X front and rear. I weigh 142#, so for me this is actually a pretty bomber wheelset.

Laks - Have you tried something like a 2.4 Maxxis DH tire? Serious. I knew a guy who used to roll those on a rigid XC bike just fine. He was faster than most people on any bike.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Placek said:


> Well
> After contacting my WB mechanic he mantioned that the advantage of Straight pull spokes is physics.
> The tension could be the same as J-bend, however straight spoke doesn't put tension to "bend" place making the stress spraded all over the wheel.
> By that usage of 32 ones is unnecesarry.
> ...


I totally understand.
One of my wheel sets was built with 24 spokes, that was the one that I actually broke the most spokes as well. Although all of the spokes broke down by the nipple or somewhere midway because of an impact. I've never had any spokes break down near the hub. Also ride with buddies that use a lot of J-bend spokes and I can say that I have never seen their spokes breaking at the J-bend.
One thing I can say is that sometimes you got to buy them to try them. 
And at your weight your likely to be just fine with 420-450g carbon hoops with 28 db straight pull spokes. 
I say do it!


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

And let us know how they hold up after a couple years. That way we all learn a thing or two.
And BTW... Which hubs?


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

I couple of Years this thread will be archived already 
My wish was at first to go with DT240 however this is double price of DT350 which are 70g heavier (both with cetner lock so exactly as i wished to be)



dimitrin said:


> And let us know how they hold up after a couple years. That way we all learn a thing or two.
> And BTW... Which hubs?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Placek said:


> Well
> After contacting my WB mechanic he mantioned that the advantage of Straight pull spokes is physics.
> The tension could be the same as J-bend, however straight spoke doesn't put tension to "bend" place making the stress spraded all over the wheel.
> By that usage of 32 ones is unnecesarry.
> ...


The guy is a road bike wheel builder.
He is using road bike conditions for his analysis. Mtbiking produces momentary stresses that will far exceed what a road bike wheel sees.
Jumps, drops, rock hits mid corner are multiple occurrences every ride. 
His high tension build suggestion was the first red flag. High tension with straight-pull is just a recipe for pull through failures.
You can't rely on this guy. 
Once you pull a stainless steel spoke end through a straight-pull aluminum hub spoke hole that hole is compromised. I wouldn't want to reuse the hub.

Ask him about Pillar aluminum nipples. Because of poor or no anodizing galvanic corrosion between the aluminum nipple and the carbon leads to destruction of the nipple after one season.
Brass nipples are necessary for a carbon wheel build.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> Brass nipples are necessary for a carbon wheel build.


I'm a big fan of brass nipples for carbon mtb wheels. They are just so much more durable and easy to use without seizing. They really prolong the life of the build all for a few grams. A couple of wheel builders taught me to use them years ago.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

And i'm totally messed up.
I know all here have good intetions and share their best knowledge , on the other hand my mech build a lot of wheels (including carbon MTB/ENduro etc) and all users were admitting how how the good builder changes the game.
Honestly - i'm stucked

And BTW - why Swiss, Easton,Shimano and I9 go with SP with their factory setups ?



eb1888 said:


> The guy is a road bike wheel builder.
> He is using road bike conditions for his analysis. Mtbiking produces momentary stresses that will far exceed what a road bike wheel sees.
> Jumps, drops, rock hits mid corner are multiple occurrences every ride.
> His high tension build suggestion was the first red flag. High tension with straight-pull is just a recipe for pull through failures.
> ...


Ok se whatever path i will go the Brass Nipples are a must with carbon setup.



cycloxer13 said:


> I'm a big fan of brass nipples for carbon mtb wheels. They are just so much more durable and easy to use without seizing. They really prolong the life of the build all for a few grams. A couple of wheel builders taught me to use them years ago.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Brass aren't a must, but it will make the wheels a lot easier to true as they get older. The weight penalty is 20 grams per wheel.

Straight pull spokes are very strong. They are just harder to source. There is nothing really wrong with J-bend spokes.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

And generally straight pull are more expensive with the only real benefit you can change a broken spoke without the tire off. 

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

yourdaguy said:


> And generally straight pull are more expensive with the only real benefit you can change a broken spoke without the tire off.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


I think this pretty much sums it up. 
The benefit of the easy spoke swap is negated in your case due to using standard nipples in a non UST hoop. So all you end up with is hard to source spokes that cost 5x as much.
The debate over being superior to a j-bend is inconclusive. There are a lot more mtb hub manufacturers building mountain hubs for j-bend than straight pull. And I am sure a lot more pro dh riders riding j-bend than straight pull.
But all that being said, if your builder knows the difference in buildng a road wheel vs. a mtb wheel than I truly think you'll be just fine using them.... you'll just spend more money having the straight pull.
One of my wheel sets was a Easton 24 spoke straight pull with with a 370g UST carbon hoop. I went through 5 broke spokes in 3 years on the rear wheel, my daily riding buddy went through 1 broken j-bend spoke during that same time, and it was not broken at the bend.
I rode the piss out of that lightweight wheel set for 3 years over extermly rugged rocky terrain and cracked the rear hoop twice. 
I weigh 175lb ret to ride, with my aggro riding style I think I would be fine with 28 spokes 410g carbon hoops. I went with 450g hoops because at times I truly felt that maybe those light weight wheels combined with my 32mm fork were subconsciously causing me to hold back a little. The heavier hoops will withstand more abuse, and coupled with the new Pike I have will allow me to push a little harder without worrying about something folding. The second cracked rear hoop is what prompted me to enter the world of "(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims".
The irony of all of this is I recently broke my tib fib snowboarding and likely will not be riding for several months, and when I do start back up it will be at a weak pathetic pace... and the possibility is that I may never ride like I did before the broken leg.

But I'll ride and still have fun!


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

This in itself seems like such a sham. My understanding is a j bend spoke starts its life out as a straight pull? If the j bend has to go through one additional manufacturing step you would think they would be the more expensive spoke.



yourdaguy said:


> And generally straight pull are more expensive with the only real benefit you can change a broken spoke without the tire off.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

It's economics, really. What is more readily available? J-bend. Which costs more because of scarcity? SP.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Jbend spoke machines are plentiful. In a jbend spoke the stress is spread over the bend and the head. This is why spikes almost never break at the bend. I think that straight pull require stronger heads since all the stress is directly to the head. Strait pull require recalibrating the machine. 

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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Here's more discussion and good info on possibly avoiding 28 spoke builds.
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/28h-straight-pull-vs-32h-j-bend-29-wheel-build-937155.html


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> Here's more discussion and good info on avoiding 28 spoke builds.
> http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/28h-straight-pull-vs-32h-j-bend-29-wheel-build-937155.html


That is a very broad statement that is simply not correct for all riders in all applications. Hole count is only one factor that goes into a wheel build.

As an example, consider that a I weigh 140#. Somebody who weighs 185# is 30% heavier. Removing 4 spokes from a wheel is a 12% difference.

Questions that need to be asked include:

What gauge spokes are you using? 
What's the cross pattern? 
Aluminum or brass nipples? 
What is the PCD and width of the hubs? 
What's the build tension? 
Are we talking stiffer carbon hoops or aluminum rims? 
What is the intended application: XC racing, trail JRA, AM, or DH runs?

You have to match the build to the rider and the intended application. That's why if you don't know what you are doing, it is worth your time and money to seek out a good wheel builder.

FYI, I spec out and build all of my own wheels for personal use.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Fixed it.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

cycloxer13 said:


> Brass aren't a must, but it will make the wheels a lot easier to true as they get older. The weight penalty is 20 grams per wheel.
> 
> Straight pull spokes are very strong. They are just harder to source. There is nothing really wrong with J-bend spokes.


Has this point been brought up recently? ... that Alu nipples react with the carbon, making them corrode pretty quickly. Like, I've seen them corrode so badly they need to be replaced in a year.

I built up both my wheelsets with brass nipples for this reason. I've used alu nipples but I only seem to get 2 years before they start popping on me under my 200 pound ass.

I've got about 2 years of hard riding on my LB 29er AM rims with brass nipples, and I have never had to even true them.


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

pimpbot said:


> Has this point been brought up recently? ... that Alu nipples react with the carbon, making them corrode pretty quickly. Like, I've seen them corrode so badly they need to be replaced in a year.
> 
> I built up both my wheelsets with brass nipples for this reason. I've used alu nipples but I only seem to get 2 years before they start popping on me under my 200 pound ass.
> 
> I've got about 2 years of hard riding on my LB 29er AM rims with brass nipples, and I have never had to even true them.


Yep, been brought up - still not really sure if it's the quality of the nipple anodising and install method or fundamental because plenty of people seem to have no long term issues. Either way, it's not worth the risk - brass is a better more durable solution all round


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> that Alu nipples react with the carbon, making them corrode pretty quickly.


This is not a law... it happens in some circumstances, some not.



pharmaboy said:


> Yep, been brought up - still not really sure if it's the quality of the nipple anodising and install method or fundamental because plenty of people seem to have no long term issues. Either way, it's not worth the risk - brass is a better more durable solution all round


this


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

I see a lot of failures on the alu nipples from China factory built wheels ( namely Pillar & CN). A few of us have looked at them and we have a few theories. I've seen a few builds where the spokes were very short and the nipple would literally crack in half or disintegrate after a year. The nipple had poor thread engagement. I've seen others that seize after too much wet weather use or one New England winter. The wheels can be salvaged to a point, but it kind of sucks if you keep popping spokes and have to go to the bike shop all the time. 

Unless I am building race wheels, I use Wheelsmith Durastan brass nipples. It's akin to buying a small insurance policy to extend the longevity of the wheel.


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## Orembiker (May 17, 2007)

cycloxer13 said:


> I see a lot of failures on the alu nipples from China factory built wheels ( namely Pillar & CN). A few of us have looked at them and we have a few theories. I've seen a few builds where the spokes were very short and the nipple would literally crack in half or disintegrate after a year. The nipple had poor thread engagement. I've seen others that seize after too much wet weather use or one New England winter. The wheels can be salvaged to a point, but it kind of sucks if you keep popping spokes and have to go to the bike shop all the time.
> 
> Unless I am building race wheels, I use Wheelsmith Durastan brass nipples. It's akin to buying a small insurance policy to extend the longevity of the wheel.


I just experienced this. I have Pillar alu nipples. I've only had the wheels for 3 months though... I'm really scared this is going to keep happening again. Would you suggest rebuilding then with brass?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes. 

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Orembiker said:


> Would you suggest rebuilding then with brass?


If you have broken more than one or two nipples, yes. It isn't the end of the world. The brass nipples are strong enough that even if the spokes are a bit short you will be okay.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Orembiker said:


> I just experienced this. I have Pillar alu nipples. I've only had the wheels for 3 months though... I'm really scared this is going to keep happening again. Would you suggest rebuilding then with brass?


This is the reason I would never have the wheels build at factory, Pillar nipples are junk. I like being able to pick exactly the parts for my build. I would always have a wheel builder that you "trust" and has passion for what he does. I have not had any problems with my alloy nips with LB rims, I just broke 2 spokes because of branch that broke spokes, no problems at all with my Alloy nips.
There are so many variables involved, but saying do not use Alloy nips is just wrong, why would I use brass and add the extra weight at the most critical area of the wheel for rotational weight savings with no added benefit in my case!!


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

My new wheels are ready and i am enjoying them a lot :thumbsup: LB 27/22 rims made by a local builder. I asked LB for rims around 375gr. The set:

LB 27/22 rims
DT240S hubs
DT Revolution (32)
Brass nipples
Weight (no tape & valves) 780gr & 720gr

My previous set was same but with Crest rims. Much easier to get the tires on with the LB hookless rims. I use Schwalbe TLR tubes and they were a pain to get on the Crest set. With the Crest i could seat the tires with a floor pump, with these hookless rims i got to use the compressor but very easy to make them seat.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

So, Pillar nipples are junk? I guess I am screwed. FYI, they are made in Taiwan and not China. Not sure that matters but I don't hear much about Ibis or Nox Composite wheels failing because they use alloy pillar nipples in their builds.

If you are using Pillar DSN nipples (ie., Ibis) then the spokes need to be 2 mm longer than what most spoke calculators indicate. That's one thing I like about the DSN nipple is that they are threaded all the way through and thus have extra bite. Compare that to a DTswiss or Wheelsmith where you need different spoke lengths when changing from a 12 to 16 mm nipple. Maybe that matters and maybe it doesn't but IMO at least the DSN series nipples seem like a good option to brass with deep-seated carbon rims.

Advising someone to rebuild their wheel with brass because they just now discovered they have alloy nipples is crazy talk.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Well you're not using red. Maybe that's the ticket.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

It happens too red black and silver. Must be that yellow is the hot ticket! 

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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> Well you're not using red. Maybe that's the ticket.
> View attachment 969821


Eb, are those yours? Brands? Riding conditions?

Currently waiting on some pillar spokes + nipples to be delivered. ;-(

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

As many pictures of corroded AL nipples that get posted I don't get the urge to use them over brass.

Sorry you're not going to feel that 20g.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

fefillo said:


> Eb, are those yours? Brands? Riding conditions?
> Currently waiting on some pillar spokes + nipples to be delivered. ;-(


No, I used the free brass nipples that come with Sapim Lasers from Dan's Comp.
Those are off an Australian site. I hadn't seen that picture before.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> No, I used the free brass nipples that come with Sapim Lasers from Dan's Comp.
> Those are off an Australian site. I hadn't seen that picture before.


So, did they say anything about the circumstances around those nipples? This is not CNN, but I think posting some random picture with no context can only help to confuse more than help people. Unless we are just trying to spread myths and rumors and not actually understand things.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

eb1888 said:


> No, I used the free brass nipples that come with Sapim Lasers from Dan's Comp.
> Those are off an Australian site. I hadn't seen that picture before.


That's kinda lame. For all we know they were riding the wheels that those nipples came out of on the great barrier reef.

~1000 miles on Ibis 928s with pillar alloy nipples and no issues. That's empirical data.

That said, my two cents is go with brass as well. Unless you really want bling and know how to build wheels. Re-lacing with new nipples every 2 or 3 years is not a big deal for me. For others, who dropped $1400 or more on their wheelset it probably is.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I didn't see conclusive info.

http://perthmtb.asn.au/node/45673

"And if you have carbon wheels and alloy nipples you may want to check your nipples for corrosion when you do a major service or change a tyre - else they may just corrode and pull through the rim = Pic 2. Seems to be a combination of sealing fluid (Stans in this case), water and different conductivity of alloy nipples and carbon rims? Just replaced my wheels alloy nipples with brass ones"


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Ok for those of you who have warrantied a rim from light-bicycle how exactly did the process play out? I've seen it mentioned from time to time and what I can recall is some emails get sent back and forth with what I would assume include pics of the problem. Then you have to pay the shipping and they send you a replacement rim for free. Did you have to dig up your original emails from when you ordered the rims, in my case only two months ago? Was it hard to get them to agree to a replacement?

Thanks


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

fefillo said:


> So, did they say anything about the circumstances around those nipples? This is not CNN, but I think posting some random picture with no context can only help to confuse more than help people. Unless we are just trying to spread myths and rumors and not actually understand things.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





rockman said:


> That's kinda lame. For all we know they were riding the wheels that those nipples came out of on the great barrier reef.
> 
> ~1000 miles on Ibis 928s with pillar alloy nipples and no issues. That's empirical data.
> 
> That said, my two cents is go with brass as well. Unless you really want bling and know how to build wheels. Re-lacing with new nipples every 2 or 3 years is not a big deal for me. For others, who dropped $1400 or more on their wheelset it probably is.


Plenty of other posts showing the same thing.

Makes you wonder why Envy has this on their website: "Once a year, inspect the inside or your rim using a flashlight to check for nipple corrosion."

Here's a whole thread on it with plenty of pictures if you really need to consider whether or not that 20g is worth the risk.

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/enve-wheel-nipple-corrosion-835853.html


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> Well you're not using red. Maybe that's the ticket.
> View attachment 969821


I know this comment doesn't help answer what is obviously a very complex question, and I know that we don't know the use history of those nips in the pics, but I just gotta say...doesn't it seem a little weird that the corrosion is almost all above the actual surface that was in contact with the rim itself?

We have seen other pics from carbon rim corrosion where the spoke "barrel" and the underside of the head were all trashed too, but in this case even the red ano is still intact on those surfaces, so it isn't like the crud just got knocked or ground off when they were removing them. While I am at it, does anyone have a handle on who is using black and red steel spokes in the same wheels? I think Spz does, but wasn't sure on others, and was curious if that would tell us what these came out of.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming...


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Placek said:


> All
> 
> I'm seriously considering my first carbon rims but here in PL in my surrounding everybody says that For Light Enduro only ALU is a way to go.
> So was advised to go with FlowEX or Ex 471 as they can handle a lot (i'm 185LBS) and considering to spend more and stay on light side (200g to save on set)
> ...


Beautiful trails. I don't mean this to be antagonistic but at those speeds the carbon will be fine. Bear in mind, comparably built carbon and aluminum rims will generally fail under the same scenarios. Only difference is carbon cracks, AL dents. So, if they were to pick up the pace, say race speeds, they would risk a crack/dent for sure. But that's just part of the game. Either way you have to let it rip. You can't race like you're trying to preserve your components.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Plenty of other posts showing the same thing.
> 
> Makes you wonder why Envy has this on their website: "Once a year, inspect the inside or your rim using a flashlight to check for nipple corrosion."
> 
> ...


I wonder how many Ibis carbon wheelsets have now been sold with janky pillar alloy black nipples? Still not one report of nipple failure. Is it because they use stainless washers? I doubt it. Just curious really. I have no dog in this fight and am quite happy with my 928s as they are and am building up Derbys with alloy nipples as well. To each their own.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

brass nipples win hands down under the 'better safe than sorry' umbrella. I can't think of any motive for spreading false rumors about alloy nipples corroding. I think we all agree it is possible. So, alloy is softer, 2-3x the price of brass, and might corrode. Unless you're an Olympic-level racer I can't imagine why you'd take all that for weight savings and color options.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Nipples. People get so worked up about spoke and nipple weight and it is just not that big of a deal. You need to realize that brass nipples weigh about 30 grams per wheel. Aluminum weigh roughly 10. A 20 gram difference. BFD That's equivalent to less than an ounce of sealant. They aren't even positioned at the perimeter of the rim. There is no way in hell you could tell the difference in the real world, especially on a 29-er where people are bolting up 700-800 gram tires. Choose a lighter tread. The weight of the tread on a tire is the furthest away from the axle. That makes the biggest difference.


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

First wheel build is in the books. The first time around the block was pretty slow, but I could see future builds going more smoothly.

CarbonCycle 35/30mm Rims
DT Comp straight pull spokes
DT 240 28h hubs
DT brass nips.

1590g and noticably stiffer than my Roval Carbon SL's. Wind-up and spoke twist was not an issue at all. Glad I know how to do this now.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

F love the look. Pics of the rear tire? DT st pull w brass. Well done mate.


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

This is all I got with the rear.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

This build looks sick, honestly would like to order mine finally.
Bigdrunk
I'm also considering taking SP spokes - how do You see them - i mean usage in rough terrain, do You do any jumping or more serious drops (3-4ft?) - were You thinking about 32h version instead ?
Secondly - the rim - were You considering the 38(31.6) version?



bigdrunk said:


> First wheel build is in the books. The first time around the block was pretty slow, but I could see future builds going more smoothly.
> 
> CarbonCycle 35/30mm Rims
> DT Comp straight pull spokes
> ...


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

rockman said:


> I wonder how many Ibis carbon wheelsets have now been sold with janky pillar alloy black nipples? Still not one report of nipple failure. Is it because they use stainless washers? I doubt it. Just curious really. I have no dog in this fight and am quite happy with my 928s as they are and am building up Derbys with alloy nipples as well. To each their own.


Taking something that hasn't been out very long and holding it up as a shining example of long term durability is , well you get the point.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Taking something that hasn't been out very long and holding it up as a shining example of long term durability is , well you get the point.


And so is posting pics of corroded nipples that you found on the interwebs to prove your point. My point, in case you missed it, is that someone like Hans Heim at Ibis does a lot of research and has a lot to lose by their wheelsets coming back. For the most part, all the reports I have read about involve Enve. Nor, have I read or seen one report of corroded nipples with a Derby rim.

That said, brass for the win.


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Here are my thoughts:

These rims seem great so far. No complaints once so ever, but if I were to order them again I would get carbon cycle's 38mm rims. I noticed them after I had ordered these. No big deal, but the new 38mm rims are wider and 20g lighter.

28 hole straight pulls: I don't see strength or stiffness being an issue with these at all for my 185b weight. I don't really do drops higher than 2' though. But, if I could do it all over again I would have ordered 32 hole hubs and rims. In the end, going 28 hole I felt I had to go DT Comps to ensure strength and stiffness. I did not want to build up with Sapim lasers and be disappointed. Going 32 hole J-bend, spoke selection would have been better too. I have a ton of left over spokes from my wheel build and carry extras in my camelback.

I am pretty sure if I went 32 hole I could have built up a lighter and as stiff or stiffer wheel. But again, I am new to this and don't have any other build experience to go off of.

As a plus, straight pulls lace really easy (being a rookie wheel builder). As mentioned above, I did not experience the spokes spinning either. I think with the components used in my build, it could not have been any easier.



Placek said:


> This build looks sick, honestly would like to order mine finally.
> Bigdrunk
> I'm also considering taking SP spokes - how do You see them - i mean usage in rough terrain, do You do any jumping or more serious drops (3-4ft?) - were You thinking about 32h version instead ?
> Secondly - the rim - were You considering the 38(31.6) version?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have posted many of my own pictures of nipples in this thread (all were DT and in black, red and silver). I rebuilt my 6 carbon wheels this winter with brass after having 3 nipples break last summer. I can send you a picture of a pile of 200 nipples many of which have corrosion. A few of which barely have ends left. I don't have Enve wheels (rather have my 6 LB wheels than 2 Enve wheels).

I posted a plausible explanation of the cause of this problem about 6 months ago in this thread. My reasoning is that since this does not seem to be a problem with road carbon wheels and that it is even happening to Enve wheels where the holes are molded not drilled (no nipples ever touch carbon just resin which should be an insulator) that there has to be a cause specific to mountain bikes.

Short version; the disc brake is acting like a dynamo with the metal on metal grinding (not sure if organic pads would do the same-but I think they would) causing electrons to build up in the disc. They are transmitted down the hub into the spokes and from there into the nipples. Since electrons repel each other they tend to concentrate in the ends of the nipples. In this case with the disc driving the process the buildup in the ends of the nipples allows enough voltage to overwhelm the anodizing and oxidize an aluminum molecule at the end of the nipple. Once you pierce the anodizing the process is easier for that nipple in the future. This explains why when you rebuild a wheel, some nipples are practically gone and other look new. The fact that Enve wheels have molded holes and that they seem to almost have this problem worse also tends to make sense with this explanation since in the case of Enve wheels the electrons can't leave the nipple into the rim (resin is almost a perfect insulator carbon is about half as much so).

I have Zipp road wheels that are 15 years old with thousands of miles and the nipples show no signs of this problem. If you look at a road wheel as a system the metal brake track is insulated from the rest of the wheel by the carbon part of the rim. So almost no electrons could ever get to the nipples on my Zipp road wheels. Certainly not enough to jump over the anodizing and cause oxidation of the nipple.

This is the best explanation I have found for this so far and it jives with all the facts we have. Even the anecdotal data that I had this problem bad and I am mostly a single speeder and so I carry maximum speed until the last minute and then brake very aggressively. If anyone can see a better explanation, please share it with the world.

Until there is another solution brass is the only way to go unless you are willing to rebuild your wheels every year or so. Also, when I rebuilt all those wheels this winter, I was reminded how much better brass nipples are to work with than aluminum. I have used aluminum exclusively for many years and the brass nipples are so smooth and easy to tighten as the tension builds up That I would probably use them on a road wheel in the future, especially since there are way fewer nipples and the weight difference would be almost nothing on a road wheel.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I like that explanation. It's the most plausible one I've read.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Here is my LB 650b 35mm DH version with Enve sticker (Sorry enve hehehehe...)


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

yourdaguy said:


> Short version; the disc brake is acting like a dynamo with the metal on metal grinding (not sure if organic pads would do the same-but I think they would) causing electrons to build up in the disc. They are transmitted down the hub into the spokes and from there into the nipples. Since electrons repel each other they tend to concentrate in the ends of the nipples. In this case with the disc driving the process the buildup in the ends of the nipples allows enough voltage to overwhelm the anodizing and oxidize an aluminum molecule at the end of the nipple. Once you pierce the anodizing the process is easier for that nipple in the future. This explains why when you rebuild a wheel, some nipples are practically gone and other look new. The fact that Enve wheels have molded holes and that they seem to almost have this problem worse also tends to make sense with this explanation since in the case of Enve wheels the electrons can't leave the nipple into the rim (resin is almost a perfect insulator carbon is about half as much so).












Do you think having some king of insulating gasket between disk and hub would help isolate the spokes/nipples from the electric charge?

Maybe we can test this with the guy that got grilled for not running a rear brake a few months ago!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

That could be problematic. Spacing issues, might not save any weight. Brass nipples are good and work. I have no interest in trying to insulate the disc. The penalty is only ~20 grams. 

Tapatalk upgrade is much better!


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

You realize the screws go into the hub right? 

Tapatalk upgrade is much better!


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

yourdaguy said:


> You realize the screws go into the hub right?
> 
> Tapatalk upgrade is much better!


Hey! You didn't think about that on your first reply either. ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes but I have thought about ways to try to insulate the hub b4. and knew it would be very difficult. The only way I figured out was an all carbon hub. 

Tapatalk upgrade is much better!


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

I agree. If you are starting from scratch, the brass nipples seem to be the easy solution, but if you already had the alloy nipples installed, it would be great to come up with some remedial/prevention options. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

I guess there's a dynamo in my butt then. How else could you explain how the same corrosion happening to my reverb seat post inside a carbon frame? My guess is this a chemistry equation. Just my opinion.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

The galling you see in that pic has been cleaned up considerably. There had been an obvious chemical reaction happening. White/ grey powdery substance was also present. The post was almost frozen in the frame. I had used grease.

Hope this adds to the conjecture.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

That is galvanic corrosion too. The cause here is that there is slight movement between the parts. In this case your seat tube actually stretches microscopically every time you come down hard on the seat. That is why this type problem usually shows up at the rear of the seatpost around the top of the seat tube area. Also, your seatpost is slightly compressing in that area at the same time. So the two parts rub over each other microscopically and this wears the anodizing off the post and then those exposed aluminum molecules start grabbing electrons. Get a little water and crud in there to facilitate and the electrons have an even easier time of it.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

fracaxis said:


> The galling you see in that pic has been cleaned up considerably. There had been an obvious chemical reaction happening. White/ grey powdery substance was also present. The post was almost frozen in the frame. I had used grease.


galling is wear caused by microscopic movements. Likely the anodized coating was worn off fist, leaving the exposed aluminum to corrode, which it will do in the presence of any moisture.
Dynamos involve magnets and are in no way at play here.
Be wary of armchair experts on MTBR.



fracaxis said:


> Hope this adds to the conjecture.


Conjecture is not a bad characterization. I'd offer wild speculation as more apropos.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

fefillo said:


> I agree. If you are starting from scratch, the brass nipples seem to be the easy solution, but if you already had the alloy nipples installed, it would be great to come up with some remedial/prevention options.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For this solution to be effective the problem would have had to have been correctly identified. What we have here is just stabs in the dark by people who don't know much about what they are saying.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

It's all ball bearings nowadays. Now you prepare that Fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads. And I'm gonna need 'bout ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no make that Quaker State.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

meltingfeather said:


> For this solution to be effective the problem would have had to have been correctly identified. What we have here is just stabs in the dark by people who don't know much about what they are saying.


MF, do you have a theory on the alloy nipple corrosion issues? And beyond that... any ideas how to prevent it besides going with brass?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

fefillo said:


> MF, do you have a theory on the alloy nipple corrosion issues? And beyond that... any ideas how to prevent it besides going with brass?


Looks very much like straight corrosion (oxidation) of aluminum accelerated or caused by sealant components (ammonia), but it is likely not one cause across the whole spectrum of people's experiences, which is why categorical proclamations of what the specific mechanism is are ridiculous.
It does happen on road bikes, it happens sometimes with aluminum rims, and it doesn't always happen with carbon rims.
Using quality anodized nipples definitely helps. Not using porous/gas permeable tape (_e.g._, Gorilla) helps, and _maybe_ coating the nipples after the wheel is built with something like Frame Saver would help.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Summing up.
You don't regret going 28SP and 30mm however now and for harder usage You would go 32h 38mm rims - correct ?



bigdrunk said:


> Here are my thoughts:
> 
> These rims seem great so far. No complaints once so ever, but if I were to order them again I would get carbon cycle's 38mm rims. I noticed them after I had ordered these. No big deal, but the new 38mm rims are wider and 20g lighter.
> 
> ...


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

If we step outside of MTBR for a moment and do a simple search, this is one of the first things that pops up. Interesting and may explain some of the issues people encounter.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/corrosn.html

Scrolling down to the coupling of materials section seems applicable.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

fracaxis said:


> If we step outside of MTBR for a moment and do a simple search, this is one of the first things that pops up. Interesting and may explain some of the issues people encounter.
> 
> http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/corrosn.html
> 
> Scrolling down to the coupling of materials section seems applicable.


A new MTBR expert is born. :thumbsup:
I'm just messing with you but that's how it happens. Corrosion is not something you learn everything about in a 5-minute internet read.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

Haha. I love your sarcasm.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

Me thinks Boeing spent more than 5 minutes in it.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

fracaxis said:


> Me thinks Boeing spent more than 5 minutes in it.


Most of that stuff is copy-and-pasted from elsewhere on the Internet.
The MTBR armchair scientists discussing it here are the ones who have spent 5 minutes learning corrosion to come here and spout their knowledge.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

It's good to have someone here to cut through the haze. I've been lurking here long enough to appreciate your clarity.


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## ryanhugh (Dec 27, 2007)

oh god there joining up.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

I've heard enough about nipples now to last me a lifetime. 
And that's coming from a "boob" man 


Fat Biker


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Well... call me stupid, shallow, a rebel or whatever... I went with red alloy nipples for my LB 38mm homebuild! I'll update in a year or 2 if I end up replacing them with brass due to corrosion.

Details here: http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/new-light-bicycle-38mm-rims-941499-6.html#post11832169


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Guys
You convinced me to J-Bend 32h on rear.
Still having an issue with front as my local LBS is having some great deal on 240s but 28h J-Bend - worth of penny ?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Placek said:


> Guys
> You convinced me to J-Bend 32h on rear.
> Still having an issue with front as my local LBS is having some great deal on 240s but 28h J-Bend - worth of penny ?


I don't think it would be a problem on a front.
Check hub pricing on Bike24 and Hibike. The Euro is at 1.05 and dropping so a 350 front is $40 + 100 for 240. Add a bunch of tires for your friends to offset $21 shipping.


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## intellikat (Mar 13, 2015)

Hi All. First post.

I wanted to reach out and make contact with any riders who might find information and reviews on Chinese (or broadly Asian) manufactured rims (and other components/frames) useful.

I'm working in Guangzhou, China (close to Shenzhen) on contract for a few years and in my early days here have been riding local trails, meeting local riders, and finding the LBSes over the past 6 months. A good Chinese friend of mine is a sponsored racer for a Chinese company (Quick) and also works in marketing for WTB. 

He and I have this vision to get info out to our western brothers and sisters using our connections ("guanxi") in the industry here as well as our proximity to a number of the manufacturers. It would be website dedicated to unbiased short- and longterm reviews of products as well as info and images on manufacturers/companies. I know that a number of others have attempted this in abortive blog fashion or in forums, but I don't know of any centralized site/hub online with easy content searching and dialogue for these kind of reviews. We have some really great access to information here and would like to utilize it.

Is a website dedicated to reviews and info on Asian manufactured products (carbon frames, rims, some other components, MTB/road) something anyone would be interested in using if we set it up? We'd be happy to compile requests of manufacturers and products to chase up and provide tech info and reviews.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Just posted this stand alone post on my experience with LBs Pillar spokes and nipples in case anyone here is planning on using them.
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...34-nipples-lb-wheels-958365.html#post11837050


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

intellikat said:


> Hi All. First post.
> 
> I wanted to reach out and make contact with any riders who might find information and reviews on Chinese (or broadly Asian) manufactured rims (and other components/frames) useful.
> 
> ...


Manufacturer info is largely lacking so more transparency would be appreciated. Two products may be marketed/sold online by two different 'named' companies but do they each manufacture the entire product, add their name to something a manufacturer sells to a number of others, design and set specifications for a unique product, or what. I'd like to know who actually makes it.


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## intellikat (Mar 13, 2015)

eb1888 said:


> Manufacturer info is largely lacking so more transparency would be appreciated. Two products may be marketed/sold online by two different 'named' companies but do they each manufacture the entire product, add their name to something a manufacturer sells to a number of others, design and set specifications for a unique product, or what. I'd like to know who actually makes it.


Agreed.

Our proximity and ability to speak Chinese should be helpful in dealing with manufacturers and moving closer toward some transparency.

Being able to locate the source (manufacturer/factory) of a particular component would be extremely valuable info, especially if the product is known to be good or bad. The same goes for getting to know the relative quality of those manufacturers over time... something of a track record. Some of the designs look very similar when just looking at them online, but its harder to determine if they are coming out of the same factory, mold, or what.


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## intellikat (Mar 13, 2015)

fefillo said:


> Just posted this stand alone post on my experience with LBs Pillar spokes and nipples in case anyone here is planning on using them.
> http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...34-nipples-lb-wheels-958365.html#post11837050


Very nice and direct.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

I really don't understand the need that cyclist have with knowing what company manufactures a product or even the components that make up a product. Does this have any influence on your decision to buy this product? Do you do this with other products? 

Most people I've asked don't care. It seems more like just useless trivia or some water cooler conversation at best. Perhaps you just want to be the smartest guy at the shop. I've never heard anyone ask where the LCD panel in their devices were made or who manufactured the processor in their HDTV. I like this blender but I really need to know who manufactured the motor in it and preferably who molded the plastic carafe.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

GTR-33 said:


> I really don't understand the need that cyclist have with knowing what company manufactures a product or even the components that make up a product. Does this have any influence on your decision to buy this product? Do you do this with other products?
> 
> Most people I've asked don't care. It seems more like just useless trivia or some water cooler conversation at best. Perhaps you just want to be the smartest guy at the shop. I've never heard anyone ask where the LCD panel in their devices were made or who manufactured the processor in their HDTV. I like this blender but I really need to know who manufactured the motor in it and preferably who molded the plastic carafe.


Have you ever been to a blender forum? How about a forum for audiophiles? People, not just cyclists, obsess about everything and anything that they care for. Besides, what's so wrong about being informed customers?

I agree with your comment that most people don't care. But also, by definition most people are at or below average in everything. I do care and a lot of other do too. Other people prefer not to pay 200-300% more for equivalent products.

Why are you even here if you don't care?

Yeeeeshhh.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

GTR-33 said:


> I really don't understand the need that cyclist have with knowing what company manufactures a product or even the components that make up a product. Does this have any influence on your decision to buy this product? Do you do this with other products?
> 
> Most people I've asked don't care. It seems more like just useless trivia or some water cooler conversation at best. Perhaps you just want to be the smartest guy at the shop. I've never heard anyone ask where the LCD panel in their devices were made or who manufactured the processor in their HDTV. I like this blender but I really need to know who manufactured the motor in it and preferably who molded the plastic carafe.


For example, anything manufactured with carbon fiber is very dependent on the design and manufacturing for how it performs and whether it will last given the conditions of use.
Evil Bikes, it has been reported, changed frame manufacturers. They experienced quality problems with some of their past frames. The new manufacturer is VIP. Some posters consider this a quality choice. Knowing who is making something can make you confident in an expensive choice from a smaller bike company.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

GTR-33 said:


> I really don't understand the need that cyclist have with knowing what company manufactures a product or even the components that make up a product. Does this have any influence on your decision to buy this product? Do you do this with other products?
> 
> Most people I've asked don't care. It seems more like just useless trivia or some water cooler conversation at best. Perhaps you just want to be the smartest guy at the shop. I've never heard anyone ask where the LCD panel in their devices were made or who manufactured the processor in their HDTV. I like this blender but I really need to know who manufactured the motor in it and preferably who molded the plastic carafe.


If the processor in my tv or the motor in my blender fails, that isn't sending me to the ER. Parts on my bike failing can very easily be sending me to the ER or worse.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

eb1888 said:


> For example, anything manufactured with carbon fiber is very dependent on the design and manufacturing for how it performs and whether it will last given the conditions of use.
> Evil Bikes, it has been reported, changed frame manufacturers. They experienced quality problems with some of their past frames. The new manufacturer is VIP. Some posters consider this a quality choice. Knowing who is making something can make you confident in an expensive choice from a smaller bike company.


Well said. I had not heard this info about Evil. I wrote them off from my recent frame purchase due to my own worries about QC. Now that I've heard this it makes me feel better about them as a brand. Maybe I should have kept them in the running. Useful information I'd say.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

fracaxis said:


> Well said. I had not heard this info about Evil. I wrote them off from my recent frame purchase due to my own worries about QC. Now that I've heard this it makes me feel better about them as a brand. Maybe I should have kept them in the running. Useful information I'd say.


If you check the 2015 Bible test of the Following and some ride reports in their new forum section you may move them up towards the top of your list. 
Here's a video of Luke Strobel on a red Following leading a prototype carbon 27.5 Transition in eastern Washington. It is fast....er.
ONE LAP - Lars Sternberg & Luke Strobel, Xanadu - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

It's too late for me. I already pulled the trigger on a new Trans - Smuggler. Very happy so far. I'm hope the Following is everything they say it is and holds up too. This category of bike really appeals to me and the more productions of it the better. My own thought is Transition would kill it with sales if they produced a carbon Smuggler and not just the carbon Patrol. 

Back on topic though, more transparency and knowledge about the industry seems way better than sticking our heads in the sand and being spoon fed.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Let's say one carbon wheels company says they have a trick compacting process that creates more uniform rims using one piece of continuous carbon instead of multiple separate parts. The manufacturer has to support that process. Now if that same manufacturer makes rims for other sellers, all of them have access to that process. They may be selling rims in different sizes and designs that you may favor, or for less money.

I can see that affecting buying decisions, especially if you consider who is the buyer of aftermarket carbon rims: True bike geeks


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

CrozCountry said:


> Let's say one carbon wheels company says they have a trick compacting process that creates more uniform rims using one piece of continuous carbon instead of multiple separate parts.


My money would be on the fact that they are full of ****, just knowing how these guys operate in general. They'll say anything.


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## intellikat (Mar 13, 2015)

meltingfeather said:


> My money would be on the fact that they are full of ****, just knowing how these guys operate in general. They'll say anything.


This is a concern we hope to address by our proximity and connections here. Transparency is high on the list when money and safety are in question. I do think the industry in China is changing, and there are manufacturers of integrity here. We'll see what we can do about interfacing with them.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> My money would be on the fact that they are full of ****, just knowing how these guys operate in general. They'll say anything.





intellikat said:


> This is a concern we hope to address by our proximity and connections here. Transparency is high on the list when money and safety are in question. I do think the industry in China is changing, and there are manufacturers of integrity here. We'll see what we can do about interfacing with them.


I'll chime back in on this point.
On page 268 of this thread I started posting summaries of available options and tech innovations of various carbon rims, including pics sent by the sellers. The sellers I spoke with were extremely helpful with all questions before the sale.
I opted to purchase my rims from Nextie, and my order shipped out just before the Chinese new year.
The rim had two weight options, and having already cracked two prior Easton Haven hoops, I opted for the heavier 450g option.
When the rims arrived, I checked them out and weighed them, unfortunately one of the rims was the light weight version.
Not that this was the end of the world, but now I was concerned about after the sale customer service.
Emails initially went unanswered due to the new year holiday, but they replied upon their return. They apologized, admitted it was totally their mistake possibly due to trying to rush orders out just before their extended holiday, and have assured me that a new rim of the correct weight will be shipped out to me.
So at this point, although I have been delayed in my wheel build, and still do not have one of my rims, it seems that at least Brian at Nextie is honorable and has the integrity to make the situation right.
Of course I will post up if the rim is a no show, or if it is delayed in being shipped out.

Mistakes happen, it is how the mistake is remedied that makes the difference.


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## mtnfiend (Feb 26, 2004)

I finally caught up on reading all posts starting from around June 2014. YAY ME! I've earned a digital cookie.

Thanks for all the great (and at times tedious) info here. My Light Bicycle 35 hookless rims with 3K matte finish should be here in 1-2 weeks (I ordered over New Year's). 

Using local builder with old hubs rear King 142x12 XD, front Hope. With advice from meltingfeather over PM I'll use DT revs, and from all the chatter here using brass nipples, all black. Wheel will be used on my new Niner RIP9 ROD.

Desperately need new wheels. I've been resisting getting my currently wheels tuned up because the new wheels are on the way. Last ride my rear spokes were so lose I was washing out on fast hard turns. I tend to ride stuff into the ground.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Warning... this is a bit of a random rant...
Throughout this process I have learned that carbon rims can be made with different rim profile heights, widths, different rim bed profiles, sidewall heights, sidewall thickness, and you can get any combination in a specified weight/strength layup.
During the most recent email exchange, Brian at Nextie said that they use different manufactures depending on the rim profile. It may be of good benefit to determine the riding/handling characteristics of each profile when builders are specing rims for riders.
For example wider rims may have more torsional stiffness, deeper/taller profiles may have more radial stiffness, and a certain sidewall height/weight combination provide optimal durability and tire bead retention. Knowing these differences will help riders get the right hoop for their abilities, and help manufactures dial in their respective profiles.

And If I wasn't nursing a broken leg I'd probably be more upset about the above mentioned rim weight mix up. At this point it just amounts to some additional follow up... But I am looking forward to getting my build together!


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Dimitrin, rims of different profiles, widths, weights, strengths, etc have always existed before and after carbon. The same can be said for any single component or part where more than one option exists.

Knowing or at least thinking you know these differences is key, but it is and will always be hard to find objective information for all products. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I base a lot of my buying decisions on communications before sale, while Nextie has answered my question about the NXT29H07 being offered but not on site they have not responded to recent emails. LB has always got back to me, one of the reasons I have the 30mm rim now from them.
I just found out that my local bike shop now just pick-up Nextie rims, they have the fat bike rims in stock and have the 35mm wide 29er rims coming in soon. I will get a chance to look at, touch and weigh rims. The shop hold me the NXT29HO7 rim is being phased out but still have some in stock. Being able to buy from shop is a game changer for me, any problem I just deal with them. I still feel LB is better than Nextie, and that 38mm rim has a great profile but may just a bit too much rim for me. I have been waiting to see if any new rim profile show up soon, my Onyx Racing hubs are on the way. Can't wait for my new Pivot 429sl to get here.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

They are trading companies. They are selling the same rims from the same manufacturers.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

That maybe true but different companies can have a say on their quality control, and I thinks that's what set's them apart or any company apart. How far are they willing go to only sell the best possible end product.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

dgw7000 said:


> I still feel LB is better than Nextie, and that 38mm rim has a great profile but may just a bit too much rim for me. I have been waiting to see if any new rim profile show up soon, my Onyx Racing hubs are on the way. Can't wait for my new Pivot 429sl to get here.


Carbonbicycle has a new 36/30.8 rim at 390g. The 35/30 rims I got last year are problems free.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> Carbonbicycle has a new 36/30.8 rim at 390g. The 35/30 rims I got last year are problems free.


I've ordered that rim. Time to try out "thin fatty" 27.5x3" tires... My current 26" 33/27 mm and 29er 35/30 mm have been exceptional for Thunder Burt tires.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

mhelander said:


> I've ordered that rim. Time to try out "thin fatty" 27.5x3" tires... My current 26" 33/27 mm and 29er 35/30 mm have been exceptional for Thunder Burt tires.


I ordered some TBs from Germany. Prices are now pretty good. I'll be trying them on my 35/30.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> I ordered some TBs from Germany. Prices are now pretty good. I'll be trying them on my 35/30.


Good tires on normal width rims but exceptionally rigid on loose gravel turns with wider rims. Prepare for some square feeling with front when on hard surfaces especially if groovy.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Are the lightbicycle rims being drilled as type 2? I was surprised when building up my DH Carbonbicycle rim today that the spoke holes are arranged type 2? Anyone else notice this?


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

Are you quite sure they're type 2? I just built a set of CB rims and also have a set of LBs. They both seem to be centrally drilled.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I can notice a very slight offset in the drilling. It is less than half the diameter of a spoke hole. I thought My eyes could be playing tricks on me, so I asked several people in the house if they noticed if one hole was higher up than the other and they all concluded the same as me. I guess it is so close maybe treating them as a centrally drilled rim wont be an issue.

I will take some pictures with a ruler and post them.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

There is a very slight but measurable offset in the drillings. And it repeats in alternates in all the spokes so it is not random or natural variation in the process. This is a 29er "am" rim. The offset looks the same as the "DH" rim that I recently built.

This is the spoke hole to the left of the valve hole








Hole to the right
















What do you guys think. Is it better to lace them as type 2 or will it not make any difference?


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

That offset appears to be approx .5mm. I'd treat them as centered but check to see if you have an angled drilling. See if the spoke naturally wants to go to one flange or the other. That small of a variation may just be a small amount of backlash in the drilling unit. Imo.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

I had a similar "problem" with a recent set of LB 38mm, where the holes looked to have some kind of offset, but when I put a ruler to them, it was so minimal that I built them as if center drilled. 


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Guys

I saw the Nextie has some options of Hole diameter 2.3 ,4.5, 5,7 mm.
Is there also any choice at LB or they put standard 4,5mm ?


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Build them so that the spokes cross slightly. That will make the wheel stronger with a smidge more bracing angle. If you build them the other way, they will be a smidge weaker.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

yourdaguy said:


> Build them so that the spokes cross slightly. That will make the wheel stronger with a smidge more bracing angle. If you build them the other way, they will be a smidge weaker.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


I misspoke earlier using the term offset. I should have said stagger. That being said the stagger here is minuscule. I can't see it making much of a difference. I'd be more concerned with drilling angle if there is any.

I just finished building a set of CB rims Friday night and got worried enough with Abel's post to go check mine. I thought I had missed something. I loosened a few spokes and checked the alignment. Mine seem to be centered and straight drilled. That results in the nipples pulling to one side(alternating) of the rim holes. My year old LB's were drilled the same way. That set is rolling along just fine on a hardtail that sees plenty of rocks and drops. I weigh 220 geared up and these are standard 3x 32 spoke wheels with double butted spokes and brass nips.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

A slight offset is not a big deal. Holes drilled at an angle are a bigger deal. You should check for this and build accordingly.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Just proving wrong an sceptic friend. When he held the rim he said there was "no way that thing was gonna hold my weight".


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Pfttt... that proves nothing! No way that thing will survive being hit with a 10lb sledge hammer!

;-)


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I think I jinxed myself or something. Yesterday I mounted the carbon rimed rear wheel on my xc bike that I had built over the weekend. I was excited to see my bike finally with a full carbon wheelset. I had been running only with a front carbon rim for about 5 months now. 
Backtrack two weekends, I was bombing down a dusty trail that had lots of baby heads and loose rocks. There was another rider just in front of me so the dust he picked up made the visibility very poor. All of a sudden I hear a loud and nasty "CLANK", the handlebar jolts violently, tire pops and looses air instantly and I get some stans goop in my face. I am able to mantain control and come to a safe stop. I check the tire and I see a dime sized hole in the thread area. I quickly check the rim and see no issues, so I pop a tube into the tire and cover the hole with a bill. I finish the ride with no problemo. Still had about 20km to go. I rode some short rides like this for the past 2 weeks. Anyways I am cleaning the front rim with a damp cloth yesterday to take a nice picture of the bike after installing the rear wheel and I see this heart breaking scene. Notice the tire has a a tear against the bead, its from the same impact from two weeks ago. I noticed it until yesterday.

So, is there a crash replacement program or something of the likes? Would you still ride (XC only) it or attempt to repair it somehow? The spokes have not lost any tension that I can tell and the wheel is still true. Can this fail catastrophically and send me hurling down the trail teeth first? 

Cheers


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

OUCH! at least it held together.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

Consider yourself lucky and replace that rim. I wouldn't ride that thing, especially in the front. The cost to life and limb if that thing gives out are high. 

I also wouldn't try to repair it. Hoops are under huge pressure and the fibers are compromised.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

I ca hardly imagine how hard that rock/Stone was hit to make such a big damage. Maybe your pressure was extremely low?? 
And finally what rims are those??



abelfonseca said:


> I was bombing down a dusty trail that had lots of baby heads and loose rocks. There was another rider just in front of me so the dust he picked up made the visibility very poor. All of a sudden I hear a loud and nasty "CLANK", the handlebar jolts violently, tire pops and looses air instantly and I get some stans goop in my face. I am able to mantain control and come to a safe stop. I check the tire and I see a dime sized hole in the thread area. I quickly check the rim and see no issues, so I pop a tube into the tire and cover the hole with a bill. I finish the ride with no problemo. Still had about 20km to go. I rode some short rides like this for the past 2 weeks. Anyways I am cleaning the front rim with a damp cloth yesterday to take a nice picture of the bike after installing the rear wheel and I see this heart breaking scene.
> 
> Cheers


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## albertdc (Mar 2, 2007)

I am no expert, but that is more than just a hairline crack. I would personally not ride it or depend on a repair. Think about how catastrophic a complete rim failure of the front rim could be, especially if bombing downhill which is when it is bound to happen!

I don't remember whether Light Bicycles does crash replacement - I vaguely remember that they do give some sort of a discount. Contact them and see - you have nothing to lose. If not, even buying another rim at full price will still have been cheaper than most name-brand rims...

Good luck.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

These rims are from carbonbicycle.cc. I sanded it a bit to appreciate the damage better, it doesn't look half as bad now. In fact it is barely noticeable (I barely noticed it the first time so that doesn't say much). But, im afraid the rims integrity is definitely compromised. There was a small lateral wobble, not at the crack site surprisingly. I trued it with very small 1/8 increments as the wobble was slight and then wobbles appeared in other areas, so I guess that is not a good sign. I got it very true after about 3 or 4 corrections and did some stress relieving and it stayed true. I am planning on buying a replacement, but it will take quite a bit to get here as I live in Honduras, so it could be 1 to 1.5 month since I place my order. I was just wondering If I could ride it in the mean time. I think I will not be doing that now.

I will definitely contact carbonbicycle and see if they can throw me a bone somehow. I plan on telling them exactly what happened. No JRA.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

You can't ride that wheel safely. It is cracked through 50%


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Seems like good inspection after every harder track is needed.

Are doing that guys ?


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

No way would I ride that...


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

There are some good guides on youtube on how to repair carbon - I'd look at one of those and fix it, then stick it on the back if you're still worried - depending on how much effort you out into the repair as to strength


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## NazZaR (Jul 1, 2013)

No way a repaired carbon wheel will be as strong and durable as a non-damaged one.


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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

Whew!!! Five days it took me to read this bloody thread. And I was skipping pages by the bunch.

.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

pharmaboy said:


> There are some good guides on youtube on how to repair carbon - I'd look at one of those and fix it, then stick it on the back if you're still worried - depending on how much effort you out into the repair as to strength


I queried the best carbon repair expert in our country for a fix the first time this happened to me, and he said a fix would not be strong enough to hold the air pressure etc. Replace the rim


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks for your points of view. A replacement is the right and safe thing to do. Not having full confidence in your setup saps joy out of riding even if nothing fails. I contacted carbon bicycle and they gave me a 20 dollar discount!!!!!!! Not much, but well, its better than nothing. Anyone have any experience dealing with LB on these types of issues? 

Anybody have a 29er carbon rim lying around that you would like to sell, used or new?

Cheers


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

abelfonseca said:


> Thanks for your points of view. A replacement is the right and safe thing to do. Not having full confidence in your setup saps joy out of riding even if nothing fails. I contacted carbon bicycle and they gave me a 20 dollar discount!!!!!!! Not much, but well, its better than nothing. Anyone have any experience dealing with LB on these types of issues?
> 
> Anybody have a 29er carbon rim lying around that you would like to sell, used or new?
> 
> Cheers


Which carbon rim is that? what psi were you using?

Bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible, outer width DH & AM 36.00/35.00/30.00mm and XC 27.00mm - carbon rim (beadless) - Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mountain Bike, Car

carbonbicycle.cc currently list different models.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

abelfonseca said:


> Thanks for your points of view. A replacement is the right and safe thing to do. Not having full confidence in your setup saps joy out of riding even if nothing fails. I contacted carbon bicycle and they gave me a 20 dollar discount!!!!!!! Not much, but well, its better than nothing. Anyone have any experience dealing with LB on these types of issues?
> 
> Anybody have a 29er carbon rim lying around that you would like to sell, used or new?
> 
> Cheers


You can get the newest 36/30.8 version. Lighter at 390g with thicker beads.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

locominute said:


> Which carbon rim is that? what psi were you using?
> 
> Bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible, outer width DH & AM 36.00/35.00/30.00mm and XC 27.00mm - carbon rim (beadless) - Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mountain Bike, Car
> 
> carbonbicycle.cc currently list different models.


I am running the 24mm internal "am" rims. The weight 390 grams. I was running 22ish psi on my front tire, a michelin wild racer 2.25, which actually is a little bit thicker than the racing ralph 2.4 that I have on the back. I am not sure if higher pressure would have saved the rim. By the shape of the rock (had a pointy "finger" sticking out), I think it might have stabbed the tire and perforated it regardless of the pressure, but that is just a hypothesis.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Looks like the rock went right through the tire and shredded the rim from the inside. Bad luck, but nice that they're offering you a discounted replacement! I always think about how an aluminum rim would have fared in the same incident and I'm never convinced it would come out any better, just cheaper


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

would derby's be a little too expensive? or too wide? as a replacement
runs around 460gm per rim
I am 180lb and ride the AM with 2.2 nevegal at 20-22psi in front and 
wtb 2.2 tire (forget model) 22- 25psi on hard tail
--no problems- past year
- but I suspect you harder.

I rode some 26 derby dh 40mm on 6" squishy bike at downievile -- pretty rocky there- at 20psi front and 25psi no problems with the rims-- even when when my rear tire was getting multiple wall cuts from the rock strewn trail

a less expensive option would be blunt 35-- made in USA
sleeper


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Guys
I just saw the link
Carbon MTB Wheels | Do you need them? | Dirt

which at first seemed to be ENV adv. but in the end made me thinking if CF rims are for those looking for seconds on podium or wanting just extreme stiffness (which is not so good in day-to-day trail riding) - of couse all of this comes from movie not my personal expirience.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I think nobody needs them, we just like them and want them. Just like we dont need carbon anything. I dont feel them harsh at all. I feel they remove trail chatter better actually.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

abelfonseca said:


> I am running the 24mm internal "am" rims. The weight 390 grams. I was running 22ish psi on my front tire, a michelin wild racer 2.25, which actually is a little bit thicker than the racing ralph 2.4 that I have on the back. I am not sure if higher pressure would have saved the rim. By the shape of the rock (had a pointy "finger" sticking out), I think it might have stabbed the tire and perforated it regardless of the pressure, but that is just a hypothesis.


Do you have a picture of the Wild Race'rs? Are they really bigger than a 2.35 RaRa?

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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

*Spoke length... experienced wheel builder help please*

I have my Nextie hoops and I am attempting my first wheel build. I sure could use some guidance on length of the spokes. Could a kind hearted, experienced wheel builder please set me straight on spoke length?
ERD= 588, measured to the flats in the nipples, not the end of the nipple.
Flange dia.=57.5mm
Center to ND flange=36.5
Center to DS flange=21
32h
3x

I would like 284mm to work on both sides and am hoping someone will either confirm or deny the actuality of this.

Thanks!


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Do you have a picture of the Wild Race'rs? Are they really bigger than a 2.35 RaRa?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here you Go. There are a tad bigger than a 2.4 rara, I would guess rara is a tiny bit smaller. In the picture it is not that clear.

The one on the left is the RaRa


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

got my Nextie 35mm 29er wheelset built up.

35mm Nextie Rims (AM version, weighed one rim at ~420g vs stated 440g)
Chris King hubs (red)
Sapim Laser Spokes (black)
Sapim Polyax Nipples (red/black)
American Classic Valve Stems (red)
Final cost: Just under $1k

Weight with rim tape and valve stem only
Front: 754g
Rear: 935g
Total: 1689g

only have a few rides on them, and not real rides yet due to weather.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Nextie 30's, SRAM X0 hubs laced 28 3X, Wheelsmith DB14 black spokes, Durastan black brass nipples, comes in at 705 front, 825 rear for a total weight of 1530 grams.

The SRAM hubs are exceptional quality btw, top shelf.


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

cycloxer13 said:


> Nextie 30's, SRAM X0 hubs laced 28 3X, Wheelsmith DB14 black spokes, Durastan black brass nipples, comes in at 705 front, 825 rear for a total weight of 1530 grams.
> 
> The SRAM hubs are exceptional quality btw, top shelf.


How did the 30mm go for accuracy of the ERD?

Thinkng of these, and just wanted to know if 589 is on the money or whether I should allow for spoke bed - ie adding 2mm


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Stated was 589.4. I measured 589.6. I rounded up on my spoke calculations and it worked out perfect. I used stock 290 and 292 spokes.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

cycloxer13 said:


> Stated was 589.4. I measured 589.6. I rounded up on my spoke calculations and it worked out perfect. I used stock 290 and 292 spokes.


Can you pleas tell me what model number that rim is?
Also, did you measure to the end of the nipple or to the flats?


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

It's NXT29H06. I measure ERD (Effective Rim Diameter) to where the nipple seats in the rim. This is how most rim manufacturers state their ERD and what should be used in most spoke calculators. I use Spocalc.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

dimitrin said:


> Also, did you measure to the end of the nipple or to the flats?


Based on comment below, looks like he measured to neither the end or the flats. Nipples were not involved in measurement.



cycloxer13 said:


> I measure ERD (Effective Rim Diameter) to where the nipple seats in the rim. This is how most rim manufacturers state their ERD and what should be used in most spoke calculators. I use Spocalc.


Cycloxer, it's been discussed plenty of times elsewhere, but that's not the "real" ERD as a lot of calculators including DT and Spocalc expect the number. They expect the measured ERD to account an allowance for 1-2mm of spoke threads to go into the nipple. Read the instructions/definition in both calculators "help" section.

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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

fwiw, i used the DT spoke calc with the stated ERD from nextie and had no
issues. with the CK hubs, it spit out 283 and 284. I bought 283 and 285 to 
save that small amount of $$ and the wheels built up fine.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

The wheels WILL build up fine, but your spoke ends may be 1-2mm short of the recommended position where the spoke ends are just past the neck of the nipple. Depending on rounding, everything could have worked out just fine, but just by luck/coincidence, not by design. 


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Actually, none of us are exactly right. From the spocal instructions,

"ERD is measured to the end of the spoke, usually flush with the head of the nipple."

So it really depends where you want your spokes to seat relative to the nipple. How you define the term 'flush with the head' is important. (Is it the outer surface, the machined flat surface, the base - opinions vary.) My spokes at full tension are just below the machined flat of the nipple, I'd guess within a millimeter. That is about as close to perfect as I am willing to calculate. 

I just pulled up my spocal for this build. I used 590 for my ERD and my spokes calculated to 290.0 and 291.3 for the front and 291.1 and 289.4 for the rear. So you can see I rounded up my ERD a bit and rounded my spokes to stock 290 and 292's.

This wasn't by chance. I purposely rounded up, I purposely used brass nipples, and I am familiar with the specific nipple/spoke thread engagement of Wheelsmith DB14 & Durastan. Not all spokes and nipples interface the same.

I believe Nextie's ERD is of the rim itself and it does not include the spoke head.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Exactly. It does depend where you want your spoke end to end at. You are taking extra steps to ensure you meet your goal of "landing" the spoke where you want it to be in the nipple, BUT you are still using an "alternate" ERD than what the calculator "wants". And that's fine, since you are aware If it and understand the factors involved. But a lot of people (myself included until very recently) just assumed manufacturers listed ERD is exactly the same as what the calcs wants without compensating for it elsewhere. 

Also... To anyone reading this that just plugged in the website's ERD and went to town... No need to freak out, you wheels are probably fine, but if you start breaking nipples after a while, this might be a possible likely reason. 



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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Unless you are on the WC, use brass nipples. Here is one of the longest, about flush with the flat. I wouldn't want to cut it any closer.


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## NazZaR (Jul 1, 2013)

Hello guys.
I heard that using carbon rims with aluminium/brass nipples/spokes can cause electrochemical corrosion, and weaken nipple holes in carbon rims. Is that true?


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

NazZaR said:


> Hello guys.
> I heard that using carbon rims with aluminium/brass nipples/spokes can cause electrochemical corrosion, and weaken nipple holes in carbon rims. Is that true?


Some people with carbon rims and aluminum nipples have experienced nipple corrosion, some to the point where the nipples literally disintegrate. The exact causes, conditions, riding environment and time before failure seem unclear and may vary from case to case.

Some people recommend using brass nipples as insurance against this possibility.

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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

NazZaR said:


> Hello guys.
> I heard that using carbon rims with aluminium/brass nipples/spokes can cause electrochemical corrosion, and weaken nipple holes in carbon rims. Is that true?


See post 6914 onwards for the last question on this topic

Short answer - use aluminium if you are entering a weight weenie competition and don't ride a bike, and if you photograph your bike more than you ride it - everyone else uses brass when they have a choice


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## NazZaR (Jul 1, 2013)

pharmaboy said:


> See post 6914 onwards for the last question on this topic
> 
> Short answer - use aluminium if you are entering a weight weenie competition and don't ride a bike, and if you photograph your bike more than you ride it - everyone else uses brass when they have a choice


Thank you for answers, guys! Just wanted to be sure, so brass is the choice.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

I have carbon wheels with both. In general, the brass are much less problematic.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

pharmaboy said:


> See post 6914 onwards for the last question on this topic
> 
> Short answer - use aluminium if you are entering a weight weenie competition and don't ride a bike, and if you photograph your bike more than you ride it - everyone else uses brass when they have a choice


What if I ride 200 miles/week on wheels with aluminum nipples?

How does your crazy generalization fare then?

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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> What if I ride 200 miles/week on wheels with aluminum nipples?
> How does your crazy generalization fare then?


Then you are clearly in violation of Statute #7051 of MTBR law and shall: a) enter a weight weenie competition, b) stop riding your bike, and c) start taking more photographs of said bike than you ride it.

We expect full compliance immediately!

Thanks, MTBR Police.


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

I had this happen to a one of my wheels, the front one. At first I thought I had broken a spoke but on closer inspection i saw that the nipple had disintegrated. Taking the wheel apart most of the of other nipples just disintegrated too. They were aluminum. Swapped them out with brass ones and no troubles. My LBS guy said he had never seen it before. 
I also didn't notice a difference in the weight, but I didn't weigh them.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

So I finally got around to repairing my cracked rim. I sanded the crack and made it even, then I used a 1/16 drill bit to drill a hole at the end of the crack and "difusse" the stresses to stop the crack from spreading. I have seen this being done on windshields so I believe it translates to carbon perfectly. The hole got filled with epoxy resin and sanded to an even finish.

Even though I am somewhat confident it will work and hold, I am not 100% sure. I know this involves some risk only to save less than a couple hundreds bucks so I dont plan to ride it just yet. I have better plan that I think will take me off the equation in terms of risk and provide a very harsh test to the repaired rim. I have a full time job and missing work because of a sport related injury is not in the best of my interests. Here is where my dad comes into the equation. He recently started mountain biking about 1.5 years ago, he is 64 and weighs around 210 lbs. He is very strong and enjoys riding through rough stuff even though he is somewhat slow and his technique is unrefined. He drops down a curb like a sack of crap. He is also retired and just spends his days looking for stuff to do and bothering my mother. I plan on putting this wheel on his bike and letting him use it for 2 or 3 weeks. If it can take his abuse and stay true with no visible elongation of the crack, I am sure the wheel will hold up to my use no problem, I am 170 lbs. I am not going to tell him about the switch because I dont want any bias to change his riding style. He wouldnt notice his bike has something different even if I changed his frame. If I told him about my plan I am 100% sure he would go with it and help me out but I would be introducing some error into the experiment. I will let you guys know how this turns out. 

Cheers


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

abelfonseca said:


> So I finally got around to repairing my cracked rim.
> Even though I am somewhat confident it will work and hold, I am not 100% sure. I know this involves some risk only to save less than a couple hundreds bucks so I dont plan to ride it just yet. I have better plan... I have a full time job and missing work because of a sport related injury is not in the best of my interests. Here is where my dad comes into the equation. He recently started mountain biking about 1.5 years ago, he is 64 and weighs around 210 lbs. I plan on putting this wheel on his bike and letting him use it for 2 or 3 weeks.* I am not going to tell him about the switch because I dont want any bias to change his riding style.*. I will let you guys know how this turns out.
> 
> Cheers


This sounds bad.
I vote no.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

I really hope this doesn't turn into the first case of MTBR patricide. Please at least tell him about the wheel for crying out load... WTF? Hopefully he's a little smarter than you and won't ride that thing.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

If you absolutely insist on saving this wheel, at least call or contact someone who has a stake in carbon repair. May I suggest a quick email or phone call to these guys...

http://calfeedesign.com/repair/

At least you'll get some answers that mean something rather than just us chastising you for stabbing in the dark.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Wow! 
Abel, I have a feeling you are going to be really popular around here really soon. 

This probably deserves its own post. 

The story's got carbon, cracks, repairs, DIY, pictures, scheming, family members, lies... This could this summer's blockbuster!

Can't wait for the ending!

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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

Abel,

I commend you for your honesty in telling the forum what you intend to do, but perhaps you could use that honesty in telling your father about your plans. He might just be fine with it. Frankly, I think your rim will not catastrophically fail outright while lolly-gagging on a trail. But don't you think safety is paramount - yours and his? That rim can be repaired by Calfee.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I was going to let this go on till the end of the day before saying something but after reading the comments even I started feeling bad for my good ol dad!!Who by the way is not a cyclist and is not retired!

Happy april 1st guys.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

Ha! Well done Abel.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

abelfonseca said:


> I was going to let this go on till the end of the day before saying something but after reading the comments even I started feeling bad for my good ol dad!!Who by the way is not a cyclist and is not retired!
> 
> Happy april 1st guys.


Bravo well played


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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

Damn. Fell for that, hook, line and sinker.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Haha! Delete your comment and let it ride for a while longer!


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

abelfonseca said:


> I was going to let this go on till the end of the day before saying something but after reading the comments even I started feeling bad for my good ol dad!!Who by the way is not a cyclist and is not retired!
> 
> Happy april 1st guys.


Y U durty dawg U ! 
Ya got me goood there boy .

:devil:

:incazzato:

:thumbsup:

:cryin:

PMSL

Fat Biker


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## pharmaboy (Nov 11, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> What if I ride 200 miles/week on wheels with aluminum nipples?
> 
> How does your crazy generalization fare then?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe you just simple?

 

Or in denial......


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Ha, that's twice today for me.
Well done.


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## michael7383 (Jan 8, 2013)

*So are they worth it?*

I just got quoted from light-bicycle to have them lace their 38mm all mountain 29er rim with straight pull Pillar Aero X-TRA 1420 spokes to my beat to **** sun-ringle Hubs (They are from a set of Sun-Ringle Charger Pro's that have been destroyed by the korean 10" wide 3 foot deep **** ditches) for 433.00 USD plus another 49.70 to ship a full wheelset back to me. How is that price compared to me sourcing a local shop for spokes and labor?


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

michael7383 said:


> I just got quoted from light-bicycle to have them lace their 38mm all mountain 29er rim with straight pull Pillar Aero X-TRA 1420 spokes to my beat to **** sun-ringle Hubs (They are from a set of Sun-Ringle Charger Pro's that have been destroyed by the korean 10" wide 3 foot deep **** ditches) for 433.00 USD plus another 49.70 to ship a full wheelset back to me. How is that price compared to me sourcing a local shop for spokes and labor?


Its a decent price other than the fact that you will end up with "beat to ****" hubs. The Novatec hubs on those websites are good and cheap.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Agree with CC. 

Their price is good as they'll typically build your wheels for free, you only pay for parts you are buying from them. For less than $200 more you can get brand new everything from them. Plus you'll get it quicker since there's no waiting for your hubs to get to them. 


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

As you get to $600 you are at the price of DT 350 hubs, Sapim Laser spokes and CB 36/30.8 rims all new for your own build.
The stiff carbon rims are the easiest to build for a first timer.


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## michael7383 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thats good to know. The hubs are in good shape. But the rims front and rear wont true up and are dented up bad. I think I might have 300 miles on them. But riding in Korea is a test for anything.


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## michael7383 (Jan 8, 2013)

That's a great point. I might just have them send me a complete set and then build these hubs in to a super light weight set.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

michael7383 said:


> Thats good to know. The hubs are in good shape. But the rims front and rear wont true up and are dented up bad. I think I might have 300 miles on them. But riding in Korea is a test for anything.


It sounds like you need to run more pressure and/or a heavier tire. What are you doing now.
I wouldn't think carbon rims are your only solution.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Just received my new Onyx Racing Hubs in Glowing Yellow powder coat. Made in USA in Minnesota, Onyx got their start making BMX hubs using a "sprag clutch" all made from steel and they say its bulletproof. Sprag and Hybrid ceramic bearings are made in Germany.

The Sprag clutch has infinite engagement so the sprags do not touch the hub shell until forward power given, totally silent with almost no drag. Only drawback is weight rear hub 442g and front 218g, but the low drag makes up for the weight penalty.

Will be going on LB 38mm rims.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Very nice, they look awesome. But what the hell matches with that color? ;-)


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

fefillo said:


> But what the hell matches with that color? ;-)


A man purse.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I think it will good on this!!


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Well, that bike looks plenty good already, so that's kinda cheating. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

They will see you coming from a mile away. 
Reminds me of the color of reflective safety vest.


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

^^^ Damn that is a good looking ride!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Antikid said:


> ^^^ Damn that is a good looking ride!


Thanks for the complements!! The wheels on bike now are LB 30mm wide with Hadley hubs, Sapim laser spokes and nips with 4 red DT Swiss Aero lights at valve stem and Sapim stainless steal cupped washers. My builder likes using the washers on carbon rims and adds about 4 g weight/per wheel. I will use these for race day wheels with some lighter tires.

The new 38mm LB rims with the Onyx hubs will be my every day hoops. Wheel set will add some weight and like someone said see me coming with Anti Freeze translucent hubs but not here me coming since they make zero noise. I will probably do the same spoke/nipple combo. I do love this new Pivot 429SL 29er, great bike!!


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## michael7383 (Jan 8, 2013)

eb1888 said:


> It sounds like you need to run more pressure and/or a heavier tire. What are you doing now.
> I wouldn't think carbon rims are your only solution.


No, the riding conditions I find myself in are sometimes less than optimal


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Guys

As my first Carbon rims are on it's way (38mm LB) and i plan for the firs time go tubeless.
My question would be to You to advise me what kind of Tubes should i use to take most benefits from hookless/tubeless technology.

Let's narrow the choice to

Mountain King II (29x2.4)
Continental Bicycle -Mountain King II

Trail King (29x2.4)
Continental Bicycle -Trail King

I'm not reffering to knobs,acceleration etc .
Are different types mean only better sidewall protection and weight difference or maybe some type is "designed" for hookless wide rims?

My example was using Conti but i'm also considering Maxxis and Schwalbe.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Placek said:


> Guys
> 
> As my first Carbon rims are on it's way (38mm LB) and i plan for the firs time go *tubeless.*
> My question would be to You to advise me what kind of *Tubes* should i use to take most benefits from hookless/tubeless technology.
> ...


I assume you mean what kind of tyres not tubes when going tubeless yes ?

Ahhh the black (pun intended) art of tyre choice. It is indeed a *very* personal choice.What works for one may not work for another. You could ride the exact same bike as your twin brother who is exactly the same size /weight as you. Yet he may "feel" safer/more confident on one tyre at a certain pressure than you and therefore able to ride quicker. Does that mean the tyre he chose is better than the one you chose? Even though you feel just as confident ?

It all depends on the type of terrain you're going to be riding , your riding weight and style.

If you are light weight , "ride light" and not too aggressive you could quite easily get away with a lighter weight tyre. 
i.e. thinner sidewall and not quite as chunky tread.

As a general rule at the same pressure and type of tyre (width and tread pattern) on the same rim/wheel a thinner sidewalled tyre will give better traction and less rolling resistance (this difference in reality is probably miniscule and may only be noticed by pros or experienced riders YOMV)

If you ride terrain with lots of rocks or sharp branches you may want to consider a thicker sidewall. This would usually provide increased resistance to cuts to the sidewall by the rocks / branches. It doesn't guarantee against punctures rather it decreases the chance of one through the sidewall.

A thicker sidewall would also give greater support to the tyre so you could run at a slightly lower pressure (maybe 1-3psi less) this would possibly give better traction/ handling in some conditions.

Some tyres are designed to work tubeless better than others they usually contain the phrase "tubless ready" or "compatible" in the name/discription. Don't get too hung up on tubless ready/compatible though as it seems to be a crap shoot as to which tyres work best with certain rims. Even to the point of different batch numbers of the same tyre being more diffucult to set up than others. (this is usually on first runs of new tyre patterns though, before the production run settles down) . Tubeless compatible, or the like tyres, tend to have thicker casings so they leak less air .Some have small "skirts" on the edge of the bead to provide a better seal so again they leak less. Generally they are slightly heavier than a "non" tubless compatible tyre.

Give us a little a little info on rider weight /skill level/terrain etc so we can help out more.

This is a massive generalisation but what I have gleaned from the the internets . On the whole Schwalbe tend to be slightly more expensive and more fragile than Continental. They also seem to give better traction and are lighter for a given carcas size. Ya pays ya money n makes ya choice 

Obviously these are my personal opinions and are much like a$$hole$ everbody has one. Ask ten people you'll get ten opinions all contradicting at least one aspect of each others argument :crazy:

Fat Biker


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

And right now because of the dollar euro rate Schwalbe and Continental tires are cheap on some of the German sites. Shop around.


"....maybe some type is "designed" for hookless wide rims?"

No tires are designed for hookless. I haven't had any problems.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Does anyone other than Derby offer a 35mm rim with an internal, bead-locking ridge yet? 

I've seen some 30mm, 40mm and 50mm rims from Nextie. 30mm would be nice, but want just a hair wider.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Does anyone other than Derby offer a 35mm rim with an internal, bead-locking ridge yet?
> 
> I've seen some 30mm, 40mm and 50mm rims from Nextie. 30mm would be nice, but want just a hair wider.


Don't quote me here but I thought Light Bicycle had built a bead lock into their new 36mm rim ?

Fat Biker


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Fat Biker

Bike will be Banshee Prime, my weight 180lbs, terrain AM/Enduro with many rocks and roots.

My only one question was:

If i'm gonna to use tubeless system and hoookless rims than shoould i consider any special type/variety of tire or i coan choose Sport/Performance/Race Sport and depending on my choice bother only about factors like sidewalls protection, durability and weight?



Fat Biker said:


> I assume you mean what kind of tyres not tubes when going tubeless yes ?
> 
> It all depends on the type of terrain you're going to be riding , your riding weight and style.
> 
> ...


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> My builder likes using the washers on carbon rims


Does he use standard (flat) washers or something made specifically for rims?
Is there any reason for that? It's not a common things to do. If anything a washer can create unnecessary stress or a rim that was designed and drilled for direct nipple interface.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

PauLCa916 said:


> They will see you coming from a mile away.
> Reminds me of the color of reflective safety vest.


Hopefully because they won't hear a thing.

As much as I like those hubs, the silence is one reason I opted to skip them. On multi use trails it's kind of nice to have loads hubs.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

CrozCountry said:


> Does he use standard (flat) washers or something made specifically for rims?
> Is there any reason for that? It's not a common things to do. If anything a washer can create unnecessary stress or a rim that was designed and drilled for direct nipple interface.


Interesting.
Can you elaborate on any specifics of the unnecessary stresses created by the use of washers?
I knew the use of washers was not the norm, I'd never heard it created stress. I'd always thought they help distribute stress over a slightly larger area.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

I don't know about the stress, but washers can be used to combat galvanic corrosion when pairing carbon rims with aluminum nipples.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

dimitrin said:


> Interesting.
> Can you elaborate on any specifics of the unnecessary stresses created by the use of washers?
> I knew the use of washers was not the norm, I'd never heard it created stress. I'd always thought they help distribute stress over a slightly larger area.


If the washer does not have the exact shape of the rim internal it creates stress on the small area where the washer and the rim touch. Especially if most of the force is transferred around the corners of the washer, which is what you would expect if you are using flat, hardware store washers. They will never bend to the exact shape of the rim.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

Alias530 said:


> I don't know about the stress, but washers can be used to combat galvanic corrosion when pairing carbon rims with aluminum nipples.


In theory washers might prevent corrosion, but that theory is not proven and I think it is wrong.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

My wheel builder said it all depends on what carbon rim he is building whether or not to use the Sapim Round PolyAx HM cupped washers. Bag of 20 $2.95, 4to5 g weight/per 32 hole. Some manufactures do not recommend using the washers. They add about 1.4mm to ERD of the rim. Washer's are greases both sides allowing nipple "Sapim Polyax" to turn more freely and seat with less deformation of spoke hole.

He also said he didn't know if the washers will help with corrosion, he did switch for Stans juice to Bontrager TLR sealant zero ammonia. They also now use Lilly Percision Nipples, Jason Lilly the owner individually Anodizes each nipple each nipple to any color they say they match Chris King ano perfectly. Chris King uses Lilly nips in all of their builds, NOX also will use Lilly nips if requested. I have seen a sample of all Lilly nips, the color and finish of nips are bright and beautiful. I have been using Lilly Lube for about 6 month now, its my favorite chain lube. If you search for Lilly Percision Nipples you will not find any info, he sells only to custom builders and shops. My new wheels will have Lilly Nips!!


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> My wheel builder said it all depends on what carbon rim he is building whether or not to use the Sapim Round PolyAx HM cupped washers. Bag of 20 $2.95, 4to5 g weight/per 32 hole. Some manufactures do not recommend using the washers. They add about 1.4mm to ERD of the rim. Washer's are greases both sides allowing nipple "Sapim Polyax" to turn more freely and seat with less deformation of spoke hole.


Ah those. I believe they are for allowing the spoke to exit in an angle directly towards the hub flange, and not straight out and then bend. So the spoke will have no bend.

Anyone else using something like that?


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

CrozCountry said:


> Ah those. I believe they are for allowing the spoke to exit in an angle directly towards the hub flange, and not straight out and then bend. So the spoke will have no bend.
> 
> Anyone else using something like that?


I used the sapim polyax nipples in my last build. To me they seem to help.
I'll try to get a close-up pic tomorrow comparing them to the last build that
Used standard nipples.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Light bicycle has a 50mm rim now (45mm internal)

Carbon beadless 50mm wide 29 inch rims for 29 plus mountain bikes tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

CrozCountry said:


> Light bicycle has a 50mm rim now (45mm internal)
> 
> Carbon beadless 50mm wide 29 inch rims for 29 plus mountain bikes tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle


Saw this at least last week. Sorry I didn't post I thought it was old news ??? Notice they seem to have built in some sort of bead lock channel / groove. (seems that way to me)

490g looks like a good weight too no?

Fat Biker


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## Matan Gravits (Mar 1, 2014)

Hi there,

I'm about to order my first carbon rims from light bikes, trying to decide if to go with the 30mm or 35mm??

The bike is bandit 29, later on will be replaced by Whyte T129 and the tire width will be 2.2 rear & 2.25 front (maxxis ikon 2.2 / onza Ibex 2.25).
I'm about 75kg w/o my gear.

Should I go with the wider rim?


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

For those tires, I would go with the 30mm.


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## stinkyto (Feb 17, 2010)

So I am on the Verge of changing over to an XX1 system and I am going to use a set a wheels from LB as an upgrade from Stock. I am thinking the 30mm wide 24mm internal. on a Rocky Instinct 970, used mostly for trail riding with a little aggression. 
So the question I have is....
Is it really worth, both in dollars and weight, to upgrade to the Hope hub option? I am not debating the quality of the Hope hubs, just the dollar per gram per performance per durability over the Novatech option.
I believe it goes from 828USD or so for Hopes to 568USD for novatech. of course the problem is the CAD dollar is at around 75cent/$1 USD.
Sure could use some advice on this one.


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

stinkyto said:


> So I am on the Verge of changing over to an XX1 system and I am going to use a set a wheels from LB as an upgrade from Stock. I am thinking the 30mm wide 24mm internal. on a Rocky Instinct 970, used mostly for trail riding with a little aggression.
> So the question I have is....
> Is it really worth, both in dollars and weight, to upgrade to the Hope hub option? I am not debating the quality of the Hope hubs, just the dollar per gram per performance per durability over the Novatech option.
> I believe it goes from 828USD or so for Hopes to 568USD for novatech. of course the problem is the CAD dollar is at around 75cent/$1 USD.
> Sure could use some advice on this one.


Go with the hopes. The Novatecs have serious durability issues, particularly the rear hub. I have a friend who blew out 3 different 772's running the xx1 cassette all with the same failure. The press in ratchet ring inside the hub shell cannot handle the torque loads produced when in the 42t cog. Rebuilding your rear wheel due to a trashed hub is no fun. If you run a 36t cassette rear and are a smoother pedaler you will most likely be ok with the Novatec.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

stinkyto said:


> Is it really worth, both in dollars and weight, to upgrade to the Hope hub option? I am not debating the quality of the Hope hubs, just the dollar per gram per performance per durability over the Novatech option.


Yes? No? Maybe? It depends?

Unfortunately. Only you can decide that. I went through the same exercise. Ultimately made my decision to go with Hopes, primarily based on the fact that I wanted... let me rephrase that, I needed red hubs! So, there you go...

If you are less shallow than me... I think the Novatecs are probably plenty fine and you can always use that $260 to upgrade something else... carbon bars and post? New brakes?


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## stinkyto (Feb 17, 2010)

Thank you for the replies.
@elsinore that was my concern with a 29er and a 42t cog and the amount of torque sometimes. 
I live on the west coast and a lot of my riding involves short punchy climbs where the low gear is a God send.
Nice Mackenzie brother btw.
@Fefilo I am very shallow, a bit cheap as well. So adding the 25% exchange when converting the US Dollar is a punch to the groin. a 800USD wheelset is really a grand.
btw when you got your hope hubs from LB did they have the adapters and were ready to use? in another words was a hub ready for say a 15mm axel or a 12x142 setup. or did you have to spend extra for adapters?

anyone else out there with horror stories or no problems stories.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

stinkyto said:


> Thank you for the replies.
> @elsinore that was my concern with a 29er and a 42t cog and the amount of torque sometimes.
> I live on the west coast and a lot of my riding involves short punchy climbs where the low gear is a God send.
> Nice Mackenzie brother btw.
> ...


Yeah, a $1000 is harder to swallow than $600.

In my specific case I actually ended up buying the Hope Hubs elsewhere and building myself. I did not save that much money overall, but the bit of savings was enough to buy the tools I needed to build wheels and I learned a lot in the process.

They did offer Hope adapters for most front and rear axle standards. Their website used to have them available to pick to, so you can check there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

What's the consensus on bead-locking internal ridges these days, a la ENVE and Derby? 

Specialized doesn't seem to use them, and I see quite a few of their wheels about. 

Nextie looks like only company using them now. That 36mm rim from Carbon-Bicycle.cc has a new diagram/cross section now. No bead-lock ridge anymore. And updated, much higher weight. Lame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

stinkyto said:


> ...anyone else out there with horror stories or no problems stories.


On the novatech 772? Go about 180 naked, run a 28t front xo1 rear, 2.3 HRII tires, a 20% tech climb and 2 other 15% tech climb was part of my weekly routine. After 9 months of actual ride time and 1k mi the Pike blows a rebound seal every 3 months, 42t cog separated from xo1 cassette after 6 months, Inline shock leaking air, burned through 3 pairs of brake pads, my 772 are fine.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

New asymmetric rims coming from Nextie... looks great


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

savo said:


> New asymmetric rims coming from Nextie... looks great


Got a cross section? Do they have the bead lock? Weighs? Dimensions?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

see Nextie's facebook page.
"Our first asymmetric MTB rim, 27.5" 38mm external width 32mm internal width, 420g, 3.5mm offset. Only Nextie."
I bet - and hope - they will come in 29er too in the next months


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Ah. Looks cool. A bit too much rim for me, though. 

I wish they offered a 35mm 29er rim with the bead locking ridges. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> That 36mm rim from Carbon-Bicycle.cc has a new diagram/cross section now. No bead-lock ridge anymore. And updated, much higher weight. Lame.


The 29er rim lists may be incomplete for weights and need updating.
Bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible, outer width DH & AM 40.00/36.00/35.00/30.00mm and XC 40.00/27.00mm - carbon rim (beadless) - Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mounta
It shows 5 different rims and only 4 weights.
They are listing a new even wider 40/35mm rim. It seems possible the weight for that is missing from the beginning of the listing. If so that would still make the 36.30.8 rim weight unchanged at 390g with the other rim weights unchanged.
I don't see a cross section diagram for the 40/35 or 36/30.8 rims on the page with the info for the other rims.
I'll send an email.

But a 40/35 rim to compete with Ibis is big news. $145+ship.
There may be a separate DH&AM 40mm and a XC 40mm rim, both new.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Built up during April of 2012...
> 
> AM Chinese Carbon Wheels https://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/
> 
> ...


Finally got around to placing my order this morning for a pair of new rims to replace my first set that lasted 3 years....



__
https://flic.kr/p/rMgfDN
 https://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Interesting quote:



> They've even gone to the lengths of having them tested against some other benchmark rims at Bath University. In the 26 Joule impact test (equivalent to a big rock strike which would write off a rim) they withstood a 250% higher load than a Stan's Flow EX, whilst being 30% lighter! *For comparison, Light Bicycle carbon rims (which a lot of people rave about) were around 30% weaker than a Flow.* Part of their high strength comes down to the extra thick tubeless compatible bead walls, which is illustrated by the 30mm external and 24mm internal width.
> Read more at


Superstar Components Carbon AM Wheels


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Ah. Looks cool. A bit too much rim for me, though.
> 
> I wish they offered a 35mm 29er rim with the bead locking ridges.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They do, look around page 268 of this thread, the profile of several options are posted around there somewhere.

That profile is not listed on their webpage, but they offer it as NXT29H07, basically in any weight you request between 400g-475g.
Email them and talk to Brian.
...I have 3 of them...


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

...pages 268 - 269 has a lot of info including a cross section of that rim.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

dimitrin said:


> They do, look around page 268 of this thread, the profile of several options are posted around there somewhere.
> 
> That profile is not listed on their webpage, but they offer it as NXT29H07, basically in any weight you request between 400g-475g.
> Email them and talk to Brian.
> ...I have 3 of them...


Awesome! Thank you!


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> Ah. Looks cool. A bit too much rim for me, though.
> 
> I wish they offered a 35mm 29er rim with the bead locking ridges.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Carbon Fiber 29" MTB Rim Clincher 35mm Width Mountain Bike Tubeless Compatible NEW-DESIGNED [NXT29C03]

I have the 27.5" version. I'm very happy with them so far. Couple rock strikes and on tree strike, no issues at all.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

CrozCountry said:


> Interesting quote:
> 
> Superstar Components Carbon AM Wheels


That PDF file is extinct it seems. The link goes nowhere.
Discussion about it suggest the rims tested where no longer offered and could be from long ago.
Superstar Components - AM Carbon Rims « Singletrack Forum

I don't give it any weight now.


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## rx4mtb (Jul 20, 2012)

The link is to an article on Dirt Mountainbike Magazine from 9 months ago.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

rx4mtb said:


> The link is to an article on Dirt Mountainbike Magazine from 9 months ago.


Sorry for the incomplete explanation.
The article has a link to a study of carbon rim strength at Bath University that no longer exists.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

eb1888 said:


> The 29er rim lists may be incomplete for weights and need updating.
> Bead hook-less rims carbon 29er light bike rim tubeless compatible, outer width DH & AM 40.00/36.00/35.00/30.00mm and XC 40.00/27.00mm - carbon rim (beadless) - Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mounta
> It shows 5 different rims and only 4 weights.
> They are listing a new even wider 40/35mm rim. It seems possible the weight for that is missing from the beginning of the listing. If so that would still make the 36.30.8 rim weight unchanged at 390g with the other rim weights unchanged.
> ...











This new rim from Carbonbicycle has bead ridges and comes in three weights.
It is very close to the Nextie 40/35. ERD is 0.4mm less.









The 36/30.8 without ridges comes in three weights. No 390g, 405 is now the lightest.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

I had a local builder tell me that too, that when they build light bicycle rims they feel flexier than flows when he stresses them after the build. He also said that with Ibis and Derby rims it's the opposite, they feel stiffer than flows when they stress them.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

CrozCountry said:


> I had a local builder tell me that too, that when they build light bicycle rims they feel flexier than flows when he stresses them after the build. He also said that with Ibis and Derby rims it's the opposite, they feel stiffer than flows when they stress them.


I've built with Carbonbicycle rims. They are not as flexy as an ArchEx rim when truing it or stress relieving it. The stiffness actually makes it easier to build for a first timer, imo.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

cycloxer13 said:


> Nextie 30's, SRAM X0 hubs laced 28 3X, Wheelsmith DB14 black spokes, Durastan black brass nipples, comes in at 705 front, 825 rear for a total weight of 1530 grams.
> 
> The SRAM hubs are exceptional quality btw, top shelf.


Cycloxer, how are the nexties treating you so far?

I'm working with my lbs to order a pivot 429sl, and will probably swap the wheels out and build a set. I've never done so but am very comfortable trying. Xtr hubs, wheelsmith spokes and brass nipples. Curious what you're impressions are.

Also, do they have any graphics/logos on them?

I saw a post back about fifty pages with a cool black on black logo, but haven't seen anything since. I'm leaning toward the 30mm.


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## Markiel (Mar 26, 2015)

CrozCountry said:


> I had a local builder tell me that too, that when they build light bicycle rims they feel flexier than flows when he stresses them after the build. He also said that with Ibis and Derby rims it's the opposite, they feel stiffer than flows when they stress them.


So when you say that the light bicycle rims feel flexier than the Ibis/Derby rims, do you think that's for the beefier 38-mm LB rims or some of their lighter weight XC rims?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

CrozCountry said:


> I had a local builder tell me that too, that when they build light bicycle rims they feel flexier than flows when he stresses them after the build. He also said that with Ibis and Derby rims it's the opposite, they feel stiffer than flows when they stress them.


Sounds like total ******** to be!!


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Must be specific to the rim style, there are quite a few to choose from.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

dimitrin said:


> Must be specific to the rim style, there are quite a few to choose from.


That's exactly what I was thinking, also I have heard of a few Ibis rim failures. Derby is in another class from all others !!


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## doghead (Feb 23, 2008)

Just for a little dose of reality, as far as the 32mm 27.5 LB Carbon rims go, NONE of my Stan's wheel sets can even come close to the improved stiffness with the wider LB Carbon wheels. I weigh 190 lbs, riding very hilly NorCal high speed terrain on only a 5" travel bike. 
My 2 cent's, NO alloy rim that is narrow & is not 30-50% heavier then LB's can come even close to the improved steering accuracy under braking they provide.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Markiel said:


> So when you say that the light bicycle rims feel flexier than the Ibis/Derby rims, do you think that's for the beefier 38-mm LB rims or some of their lighter weight XC rims?


He had there a customer bike with rims that looked like 30mm (external), I think thats what he was referring to. I also assume that he compares derby and ibis rims to something around the same size, not a slim rim. Otherwise it would not make much sense to compare.

Those rims didn't look as nice as other rims that I have seen, you could see a few imperfections.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

doghead said:


> Just for a little dose of reality, as far as the 32mm 27.5 LB Carbon rims go, NONE of my Stan's wheel sets can even come close to the improved stiffness with the wider LB Carbon wheels. I weigh 190 lbs, riding very hilly NorCal high speed terrain on only a 5" travel bike.
> My 2 cent's, NO alloy rim that is narrow & is not 30-50% heavier then LB's can come even close to the improved steering accuracy under braking they provide.


This!

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

J273 said:


> These are the ones i have


Is this the NXT29H07 model? Looks like exactly what I'm after.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Update on my Light Bicycle "wider 29er rims. I built these up 2.5 years ago and have been enjoying them for several thousand miles. Built with CX-ray and black alu nipples. So far no corrosion issues that I'm aware of. They are straight and true and so far very durable. I've weighed 205-215 out of the shower -- 225 +/- kitted. Ride a Tallboy LTc and love to hit the rocky descents hard. 

Only comment: I would not use Gorilla tape again. Leaves a nasty residue that is very hard to remove if you ever have to re-tape your wheel. (I broke a spoke due to trail debris jamming the wheel.)


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

In the post above I gave an update on my wheels.
Now planning to build some wheels for the GF. She is much lighter and rides easy. She's not as strong as she used to be and so I would like to build her some light wheels. 

I generally like the trend towards wider rims, but for a lighter less agressive, XC style, rider --150ish -- on 29 x 2.20 tires will going with a 22mm (internal) rim be a mistake? (She is on WTB i23s now)

I already have a 32hole DT 240s rear hub, but I will buy a front hub for the build. Leaning towards American Classic 15mm thru/disk-- comments? Is it silly to go with a 28 hole front wheel? Seems it would shave 20 grams or so. 

Spokes: I've only built wheels for myself, not lighter riders. Is it reasonable to go with DT Revolutions? I know they tend to wind up a bit during the build, but will they be strong enough? Even if I end up going with a 28 spoke front?

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Yes, they will be plenty strong. Thin spokes make more durable wheels.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

For her size, weight and the tires you plan, I would use those rims. The tires you plan on the narrower rims will allow faster turn in and be plenty wide.

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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

reamer41 said:


> In the post above I gave an update on my wheels.
> Now planning to build some wheels for the GF. She is much lighter and rides easy. She's not as strong as she used to be and so I would like to build her some light wheels.
> 
> I generally like the trend towards wider rims, but for a lighter less agressive, XC style, rider --150ish -- on 29 x 2.20 tires will going with a 22mm (internal) rim be a mistake? (She is on WTB i23s now)
> ...


One of the best benefits of 30mm+ inside dimension rims is the increase in sidewall support. This keeps the tire from washing out on curves from the tire folding and abruptly losing traction. This is a big change and a confidence builder. 
You also get more volume so she could run 4-5 psi lower than she does now. That gives you more bump absorption and better traction climbing and cornering. She won't get any of that if you use a 22mm rim.
I'd give up a few grams for all that.
I use Sapim Laser spokes from Dan's Comp at 0.95ea with a free brass nipple. They also have Race, a little heavier for 0.50ea. in black.
I would use CB 36/30.8 at 405g and ask for two light ones. $145ea+ 50 ship for 2.

I'd just go with a Dt 350 32 front hub off ebay for $65.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

reamer41 said:


> Update on my Light Bicycle "wider 29er rims. I built these up 2.5 years ago and have been enjoying them for several thousand miles. Built with CX-ray and black alu nipples. So far no corrosion issues that I'm aware of. They are straight and true and so far very durable. I've weighed 205-215 out of the shower -- 225 +/- kitted. Ride a Tallboy LTc and love to hit the rocky descents hard.
> 
> Only comment: I would not use Gorilla tape again. Leaves a nasty residue that is very hard to remove if you ever have to re-tape your wheel. (I broke a spoke due to trail debris jamming the wheel.)


Sadly, that's not my experience. I have 4 sets of Light-Bicycle wheels, 2 29er, 1 26, 1 650B. All built with CX-Ray and Sapim Polyax Alloy 14mm nipples of various colors. I used anti-seize on the spoke threads and in the rim bed while building the wheels. The 29er wheels are on bikes while the 26 was just hanging in my garage with tires installed as back-up wheels. They were only ridden for a couple of months in the spring/summer before I converted to 605B and they've been hanging in the garage since then. The 650B I cracked the rear so I took the tire off and hung them up in the garage as well. 
The oldest set I have were the 26 and they were built up August of 2012 so almost 3 years old. One of my riding buddies wanted to try the wheels so I decided to check the wheels out and make sure everything is good. When I tried to turn the nipples I discovered some were essentially frozen to the spokes. Then I took the rim strip off and saw some nipples had this white/gray powdery stuff growing on it. 
Anyway, to make a long story short, I ended up destroying a bunch of CX-Ray spokes on the 26 wheels trying to remove the nipples and some of the nipples that came off had big chunks of the head missing. That got my attention quick and I checked some of my other wheels and all of them have that white/gray powdery stuff growing on some nipples. So I'm in the process of replacing the nipples with brass. I've replaced nipples on 2 sets of wheels so far and in each set, there were a few nipples that are obviously corroded and others that look like the corrosion is just starting. Thankfully I haven't destroyed any more spokes but I still have to replace the nipple on my 2nd oldest wheelset.
Needless to say, going forward, I'm only going to be using brass nipples. Using alloy to save the 20-30 grams per wheel is just not worth the possible future headache.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Here are some pictures

Some of the worst ones from the 26er(my oldest wheel set). The left most is a new brass nipple for comparison









From one of mine 29er wheel set( this is a newer set. About 2 years old I think)









From my derby rims(newest wheel set, about 1.5 years old)









As you can see from the pics. All nipples has some corrosion, some much worse than others.
Also I forgot to mention, all my wheels are set up tubeless. The 650b Derbys are taped using something similar to stans tape while all the other ones used the bontrager tubeless strips


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks for the pictures. I haven't disassembled my wheels -- so for all I know my nips are corroding. I didn't have any trouble truing the wheel -- turing the nipples -- after repairing the broken spoke, though. 
I used 30wt Mobile 1 on spoke threads and on nipple seats when building, fwiw.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Tried contacting Nextie through their website twice about the NXT29H07. It's been 4 days, and no response. Anyone ordered or heard anything from them recently?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> Tried contacting Nextie through their website twice about the NXT29H07. It's been 4 days, and no response. Anyone ordered or heard anything from them recently?


Supposedly they are having some internet issues. Try emailing them directly. 
[email protected]

That is the email I use for contacting Brian.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks. I'll email direct...I hadn't heard back either.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> Also I forgot to mention, all my wheels are set up tubeless.


Stan's with ammonia? Using CaffeLatex, does not seem to corrode anything.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Tried contacting Nextie through their website twice about the NXT29H07. It's been 4 days, and no response. Anyone ordered or heard anything from them recently?


I was told that the H07 are not being made now they still have some left, This is what I was told by my local shop that now offers Nextie. I also contacted them direct with no response. I decided not to go with Nextie for this reason. LB are much better at responding getting back!!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I emailed them. We'll see what happens.

Ah. Also, their new email address is: [email protected]. Apparently Google and Gmail are not working very well in China at the moment.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> I emailed them. We'll see what happens.
> 
> Ah. Also, their new email address is: [email protected]. Apparently Google and Gmail are not working very well in China at the moment.


Anybody hear back from nextie? Getting ready to put in an order


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Nothing on my end. If they are out there and reading this, they'd do well to respond, either here or to our email inquiries. Business is running in the opposite direction with every tick of the clock.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

I got a response from Brian today. 

Apparently gmail and email issues.


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## muzicman (Aug 28, 2009)

Got my new chinese wheels last week. Spent a lot of time asking questions of different vendors, getting huge range of prices. This is what I got.
Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is Free Shipping Novatec D771/D772SB Light 29er Hookless Carbon Wheelsets
Dealt with Leo at Xiamen New-Speed Sports Co., Ltd.
He was fabulous to work with; put up with a week's worth of my questions and doubts.
Had them in two weeks. the price on the link was the total. Had others offering same wheels for $150 less; didn't trust them.


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## muzicman (Aug 28, 2009)

*My great experience*

Got my new chinese wheels last week. Spent a lot of time asking questions of different vendors, getting huge range of prices. This is what I got.
Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is Free Shipping Novatec D771/D772SB Light 29er Hookless Carbon Wheelsets
Dealt with Leo at Xiamen New-Speed Sports Co., Ltd.
He was fabulous to work with; put up with a week's worth of my questions and doubts.
Had them in two weeks. the price on the link was the total. Had others offering same wheels for $150 less; didn't trust them.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Muzicman, there isn't any weights on the specs. What do they weigh?
Do they have a wider rim option?


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## muzicman (Aug 28, 2009)

*wheels*

You need to go to their AliBaba site
Xiamen New-Speed Sports Co., Ltd. - bicycle parts,bicycle rims

They don't really list anything on AliExpress. And you need to send them a spec of exactly what you want, then they'll give you a quote, plus shipping and AliExpress protection fee.They manufacture the rims and build them.

The exact weight is 630g in front, 760g in rear.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Just an update. I emailed Brian at his new email about some new rims for the wifes bike. Got a response in less that 24 hours.


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## Dr Wankel (Oct 2, 2007)

Blew up one of my LB 22mm internal rims yesterday. 

The wheelset was built up last June by a well known builder that frequents these forums, put about 1750 miles on them as of yesterday. The build consisted of Hadley hubs with a mix of DT Comp & Super Comp Spokes, with DT alloy Nipples. I'm about 180-185 geared and ride aggressively. My local CO front range trails range from smooth, wide open and fast single track to rough, chunky, and rocky. And often all of the above in the span of a few miles. These wheels have been on my Canfield Nimble 9 hardtail since new with tires no smaller than 2.2" with over half of the mileage coming with a Ikon 2.35 mounted (tire I was running at the time of failure)

During the ride prior to the failure I had a spoke nipple break from a rock that was kicked up into the wheels so the wheel was in a bit of a compromised state, and had a bit wobble because of the broken spoke. I've broken a few of the Super Comp spokes over the past 6 months or so but had always been able to finish the ride out. The super Comps have always broken off right at the start of the threads, whereas in this case the nipple failed and not the spoke. Air pressure was 26psi which is what I've been running with this combo for many months and rarely get any sort of rim hits. I had not felt any rim hits through to ride and the rear did not feel soft so I do not suspect that low air pressure led to the failure...

Anyways coming down a particularly rocky, chunky descent I hit a roughly 18" drop that I routinely hit to air over a small rocky section of trail. Aired over the rocks and heard a loud bang when the back end came down, tire was immediately flat, got stopped looking back hoping to only find a flat but found this instead.









I got the wheel disassembled and cleaned up this morning to get a closer look at it and aside from the obvious failure across the rim, the beadhook on the NDS side of the rim split down the center of the hook for a length of 6-8" in either direction of the main failure. This side of the rim would have taken the impact first due to the slightly off camber nature of the trail in that section. And the failure was through the spoke hole adjacent to the spoke that had broken earlier during the ride. In addition to the main failure there is a second failure point approx. 100 degrees around the rim. There is obvious impact damage to the rim bead hook in the second area, while the bead hook is really too shattered in the main break to really tell if it was the main point of impact or secondary.

More pics of the carnage...
























While I was hoping to get a few more miles out of this build but I can't blame the rim for failing in this case, as I was still riding it quite hard knowing that it was in a weakened state.

So I'm now in the market for a new set of rims. When I ordered my rims neither of LB's current wider rims were available, if they had been I would have likely gone with the RM29C02 (24mm int.) as I like the slightly thicker beadhook and the additional width. Does anyone have any experience riding both the 22mm int. rim vs either of the newer 24mm or 30mm designs? Care to share your thoughts? I'm open for suggestions at this point and not necessarily set on sticking with LB rims at this point either...

One other thing to consider, I had planned on swapping this wheelset over to an Evil The Follwing build as soon as I receive the frame. So the new wheelset will be setup for that bike rather than being intended to be hammered on on an AM hardtail.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I'd be thinking a more AM and wider rim for that bike. At least the 38/31.6 with the thicker bead from LB. I'd go 32. I'm using Sapim Lasers instead of SuperComps.
carbon 29er mtb rims 38mm wide hookless tubeless compatible strongest Light-Bicycle
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/new-light-bicycle-38mm-rims-941499-10.html
Carbonbicycle offers 36/30.8 rims in XC, AM and DH build weights.
They also have 40/35 in three weights.














Ibis has a 941 35 inside wheelset, rim weight of 488g.
http://forums.mtbr.com/ibis/ibis-741-941-rim-tire-combos-936005-8.html


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dr Wankel said:


> I've broken a few of the Super Comp spokes over the past 6 months or so


That's a red flag that something's wrong with your wheel, usually the build. Spokes just don't "break" unless certain spokes are being loaded far more than others.


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## VQuick (May 14, 2013)

Sorry to hear about the wheel. I love how many details you included about the wheels and the crash--clearly you have experience and are meticulous about your bike!

I have a pair of Nextie 40mm wide hookless 27.5" carbon wheels on my Devinci Troy and love them. I have only about 6 rides on them but they are holding up well. Last weekend I crashed the bike off a small jump; front tire went off the trail and I think hit a stump fairly hard, bike flew about 15 feet and everything was fine including the wheels. It wasn't that bad a crash but it did break my helmet and I was shaken up. Sounds like you ride pretty hard so breaking a rim after that many miles seems acceptable to me.

I am a believer in wide rims and I've heard only good things about Nextie. They seem to be one of the most reliable carbon wheel companies in China. My experience so far is in agreement.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Oh, and I ordered some more carbon rims recently, 2 weeks from ordering to shipping nexties, not bad.


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## fracaxis (May 2, 2006)

Dr Wankel said:


> Blew up one of my LB 22mm internal rims yesterday.


Sorry to hear about your wheel. I hope it doesn't happen to my set as well. I have an almost identical set, the only difference is DT double butted spokes. Mine have been going strong now for almost as many miles on a couple different hardtails.

I have just recently built up an additional set of the Carbonbicycle 36/30.8's on Hadley's with DT double butted spokes. I really like the extra width. The sidewall stability and extra volume are fantastic. The extra cush smooths out the rear end of my Banshee Paradox really well. I have moved the LB27/22 set to my Transition Smuggler for a couple different reasons. I really like a super aggressive tread (namely Maxxis DHR II's) on the Smuggler. The extra grip lets me hang it out a little harder on that bike through rougher terrain. I tried those tires on the 36/30.8 wheelset and found the extra width didn't work to my liking with that particular tread. It rounded the side knobs into the straight-line contact patch too much and added a lot of drag as well as messing with the steep angle cornering ability. I also need to run a fair amount of pressure (28-30psi) for my conditions and body weight anyway for those tires so the extra volume benefits are diminished.

The wider 36/30.8 CC set are rolling with an Ardent 2.4 in the front and the Ikon 2.35 in the rear. The extra volume/roundness actually seems to improve the cornering with these tires. This set resides on my hardtail which I use for slightly smoother trails. I can run lower pressures with this set up and really benefit without worry of rim damage due to the smoother trails and extra volume. Win-win.

I would think about what tires you want to run with the new bike and look for a complimentary rim width. I think if I manage to smash one of these 27/22 rims of mine I'll order up a set of those RM29C02 (24mm int.). I've ridden the DHRII's on that width rim and it really seems like a sweet spot for that style tire. I like the extra thickness in the rim bead as well.


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## Dr Wankel (Oct 2, 2007)

fracaxis said:


> Sorry to hear about your wheel. I hope it doesn't happen to my set as well. I have an almost identical set, the only difference is DT double butted spokes. Mine have been going strong now for almost as many miles on a couple different hardtails.
> 
> I have just recently built up an additional set of the Carbonbicycle 36/30.8's on Hadley's with DT double butted spokes. I really like the extra width. The sidewall stability and extra volume are fantastic. The extra cush smooths out the rear end of my Banshee Paradox really well. I have moved the LB27/22 set to my Transition Smuggler for a couple different reasons. I really like a super aggressive tread (namely Maxxis DHR II's) on the Smuggler. The extra grip lets me hang it out a little harder on that bike through rougher terrain. I tried those tires on the 36/30.8 wheelset and found the extra width didn't work to my liking with that particular tread. It rounded the side knobs into the straight-line contact patch too much and added a lot of drag as well as messing with the steep angle cornering ability. I also need to run a fair amount of pressure (28-30psi) for my conditions and body weight anyway for those tires so the extra volume benefits are diminished.
> 
> ...


Good info regarding your experiences with the different tires... The Ardent/Ikon combo has been my go-to setup for the last 8-9 months and I've been curious to try it out on a wider rimmed set-up to see how they feel. But I also have a brand new set of DHF 2.3/Ardent Race 2.2's that I had planned on setting up when the Following gets built. I might have to rethink tire choice a bit more because at this point I'm leaning toward something in the 30+mm internal width range. The Caronbicycle 36/30.8 looks promising the but am a bit hesitant to test those waters again. At this point I'm leaning at something like the Derby or the Nox Farlow, at least both of these offer a crash replacement program if it boils down to it in the event of a similar failure. Still in the research phase right now though so that could all change.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Tires are catching up and then some.
Schwalbe has shown 27.5+ tires for fall release. A Nobby Nic and Rocket Ron in 2.8 or 3.0" for each.
They recommend a minimum of 40mm inside dimension wheel.









Rocket Ron
Sea Otter 2015 | Schwalbe presents Plus-Size Rocket Ron & Nobby Nic | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine


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## oaklandish (May 7, 2011)

I ordered a pair of the NXT29H06 from Nextie on the 15th of this month and received them yesterday. Yay!

After inspecting the rims, I found that one of them does not have the valve stem hole correctly drilled out to the right size. It is about 2mm too small. In the second image, the hole to the left of the ironically placed "QC pass" sticker is the valve hole and the carbon is actually really thin there on the inside of the rim. Almost like installing a tubeless valve stem will pull right through the carbon wall. Boo! :nono:

Yesterday I sent pictures and an email to them asking how they are going to correct this mistake on their part. I have yet to hear from them. Hopefully they will come through.


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

Anxious to hear how this plays out. Wondering if they'll just tell you to drill it!


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Bummer oaklandish, If it was only the small valve hole, I think I would let them know of the problem and drill it open with the condition that if the operation goes wrong then your in for a refund or an exchange. But in your case, that thin section makes the rim unacceptable. Lets hope they take care of the situation positively.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Oh man...hope your issue get resolved!

Just placed an order over the weekend...hope it comes ok. Glad I used my amex.


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## oaklandish (May 7, 2011)

Brian emailed me this morning and said that he would ship another rim to replace the faulty one.

Here's hoping the replacement is correct and doesn't take too long.

I took a couple more pictures to compare the two and you can see that the finished process for the first has the the valve stem hole lined with a carbon "straw" or tube connecting the two walls of the rim. The second, aside from not being drilled to the correct size, does not. Has anyone else ever seen this?

None of my LB rims or my Derby's had this "feature".


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

oaklandish said:


> Brian emailed me this morning and said that he would ship another rim to replace the faulty one.
> 
> Here's hoping the replacement is correct and doesn't take too long.
> 
> ...


Wow first time I've seen this too. Looks interesting...not sure of the intended purpose though? Maybe prevents collapse if you crank the nut on the valve too tight?


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## campergf23 (Aug 4, 2013)

^looks like it might help if your having problems with a tubeless seal around the valve stem


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

They need to have a talk with whoever is responsible for the QC sticker.
That image is comical due to the proximity of the defect.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dimitrin said:


> They need to have a talk with whoever is responsible for the QC sticker.
> That image is comical due to the proximity of the defect.


What would that do? We all know there isn't any QC and that sticker is there to make you feel better.


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## oaklandish (May 7, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> What would that do? We all know there isn't any QC and that sticker is there to make you feel better.


^ Mostly this.

There is another sticker that lists the hole count on the rims and it had the 36hole box checked, but they are indeed 32 hole, as I ordered.:thumbsup:


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## rx4mtb (Jul 20, 2012)

LB FTW


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## agentsmith (Jan 27, 2010)

What carrier does LB use for final delivery? USPS, UPS, FEDEX?


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

agentsmith said:


> What carrier does LB use for final delivery? USPS, UPS, FEDEX?












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## agentsmith (Jan 27, 2010)

MTBMILES said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have never seen an EMS delivery truck. So they would only deliver to a street address and not a PO BOX?


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm sorry, I really don't understand how it works. They may deliver to the US Postal Service and it is delivered from them.


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## agentsmith (Jan 27, 2010)

MTBMILES said:


> I'm sorry, I really don't understand how it works. They may deliver to the US Postal Service and it is delivered from them.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


USPS will not deliver to my street address, so I need to be sure what the carrier is. I could contact LB but I doubt they would even understand the question.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Wouldn't the postal service leave a note in your mailbox and you can pick it up at your local post office?


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## agentsmith (Jan 27, 2010)

MTBMILES said:


> Wouldn't the postal service leave a note in your mailbox and you can pick it up at your local post office?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope, no mailbox, no mail delivery. They will return to sender the same day they arrive at the PO. Could be interesting being sent back to China. I will specify a PO BOX if EMS uses USPS for final delivery.


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## rx4mtb (Jul 20, 2012)

Mine came USPS. 


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

My gen 1 LB "wider" from June of 2012 finally showed some cracking around nipple holes. They were from the old layup process, but I did request "heavier"...not sure if that meant they added a layer more carbon or what. Anyway, getting me some 38s next.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Need a new set of rims (30mm).

I guess the leading candidates from china are Nextie, Light Bicycle and Carbon bicycle.

Price seems to be about the same, any idea what will be the best quality rims of the three?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Doubt there's any difference. I got LB for my fatbike and they have been terrific all winter. Got nexties waiting at the post office for me today. Lead time and ordering were about the same. One benefit with nextie is you can have them paint them in colors for no additional charge. With LB it was something like 50 or 60 more. Will be checking on quality of course later today.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

How long did it take for the nexties?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

CrozCountry said:


> Need a new set of rims (30mm).
> 
> I guess the leading candidates from china are Nextie, Light Bicycle and Carbon bicycle.
> 
> Price seems to be about the same, any idea what will be the best quality rims of the three?


2 year warranty with Nextie's versus 1 year with the others.


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

BXCc said:


> 2 year warranty with Nextie's versus 1 year with the others.


Good point


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## Markiel (Mar 26, 2015)

Interested in everyone's experience with the Pillar 1420 spokes that Light Bicycle has available? Anyone run into issues with the Pillar spokes?

How have those spokes worked out for people. I have 28 hole straight pull hubs, and trying to determine if the 1420's are beefy enough to be durable for my build.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

BXCc said:


> 2 year warranty with Nextie's versus 1 year with the others.


I don't know how much it matters. Reading on this thread you just get a few dollars off a new rim.
Any real manufacturing defect will show up early, after one year its wear and abuse.


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Wider rims here, 42mm OD, 36mm ID, and 40mm wide rims as well

Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## tim300wsm (May 14, 2011)

I ordered nextie 40mm in the downhill layup. It was 10 days from ordering to shipping. They did get held up in customs for 2 weeks though. i built them up with dt aerovaero comp spokes and a 350 rear and spank front hub


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## agentsmith (Jan 27, 2010)

Is everyone specifying 6 degree spoke holes when ordering from LB? Any luck receiving rims that were actually drilled as ordered? One poster in another thread stated a lengthy delay in receiving his order and then the spoke holes were not even drilled to 6 degree.


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## FijiRob (Dec 19, 2011)

Hey folks - After reading through many pages of this thread I have decided to pull the trigger on some LB carbon rims and have my LBS build them up. I am going back and forth on which 650b size to purchase. Looking at 30/35 or 24/30, here are my riding qualities:

I am 150 pounds and mostly ride XC. I don't get airborne often and if I do it's only a foot or two drop. I live in So Cal and prefer to go uphill rather than gnarly downhill. I race some long distance races greater than 40 miles. Occasionally I go on some rides with some chunck and want something lightweight that can also take an infrequent beating. 

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## dusadus (May 21, 2014)

FijiRob said:


> Hey folks - After reading through many pages of this thread I have decided to pull the trigger on some LB carbon rims and have my LBS build them up. I am going back and forth on which 650b size to purchase. Looking at 30/35 or 24/30, here are my riding qualities:
> 
> I am 150 pounds and mostly ride XC. I don't get airborne often and if I do it's only a foot or two drop. I live in So Cal and prefer to go uphill rather than gnarly downhill. I race some long distance races greater than 40 miles. Occasionally I go on some rides with some chunck and want something lightweight that can also take an infrequent beating.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.


Sounds like we have similar styles. I went with 24/30mm. It seemed more appropriate given i run 2.2 front and 2.1" rear tires. I'm going from a 24 outer width stock rim so the 30mm outer width I'm expecting to be a big change.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah I second your choice on the 30 outer. For that kind of riding and your size, should be great. I rode the reynolds for a couple years and they were that size. Just get at minimum 28 spokes. I broke off a lot of alloy nipples with 24 they had on those. That extra little 20-40grs isn't crap in comparison to a stopping and having to twist tie a broken spoke to another in the middle of a race. 

Btw...if anyone is wondering I ordered the 35mm nextie 29ers. Sounds like the aren't in stock and are a bit behind. I order 2 weeks ago. Just heard from them hopefully next week shipping.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Considering Nextie 29er MTB Rim 27mm Width Clincher Hookless for a lightweight XC wheelset that will do double duty as a cyclocross wheelset. I like the bead hump(?) to lessen the chance of the bead slipping into the center channel. It doesn't look like Light Bicycle has that feature. Any other contenders I should consider? Thanks.


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## zoe07 (May 11, 2015)

Andy13 said:


> Considering Nextie 29er MTB Rim 27mm Width Clincher Hookless for a lightweight XC wheelset that will do double duty as a cyclocross wheelset. I like the bead hump(?) to lessen the chance of the bead slipping into the center channel. It doesn't look like Light Bicycle has that feature. Any other contenders I should consider? Thanks.


New here. Since you mention other contenders, so let me recommend my company Boostbicycle ：） It is a manufacturer before, but now starting its own trading business. Wheels and rims are well made, I will post some pictures. Hope you will be interested.


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## zoe07 (May 11, 2015)

The 29er rim 27width is 360±15g
I am glad if i can help you.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Boostbicycle measurements and diagram look exactly like Nexties....? anyone have experience with them?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

dusadus said:


> Sounds like we have similar styles. I went with 24/30mm. It seemed more appropriate given i run 2.2 front and 2.1" rear tires. I'm going from a 24 outer width stock rim so the 30mm outer width I'm expecting to be a big change.


Going less than 30mm inside dimension is a waste of the width your tires would benefit from for sidewall support. You can use a 2.2 on the rear. No need for a 2.1.
Anton Cooper for Cannondale uses 2.25 Thunder Burts front and rear, no 2.1.


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## dusadus (May 21, 2014)

I might experiment with wider tires when these wear out now that I have wider rims. Happy with the weight and improvement in handling with these though. Maybe if I had a27.5 I'd have gone wider. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

Think I'm going to order up the nextie 40 OD for my 29er remedy9.8. Has any one ordered them yet? I have Derbys on my tracerC and really like them. The only thing I really don't like about the trek is the skinny ass rims! Any advice before I order the nextie?


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## tim300wsm (May 14, 2011)

I've got the 40mm nextie rims on my reign. So far they are great


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## zoe07 (May 11, 2015)

Many measurements and diagrams are like, but their manufacture process and material may be different. Haha, I think there is few people have the experience with Boostbicycle, we were sold by other traders before. I promise they won't let you down.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Geeez...Anyone know how long it takes to get a set from nextie? 

Going on 3 weeks. No shipping notification. No rims...


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## tim300wsm (May 14, 2011)

mine were shipped in 7 business days but got stuck in customs for about 20 days


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

Crap i better order some than


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

So I can't decide to go with 40 or 35mm. I was going to try the 35mm but the profile picture they give doesn't show the channel next to the side wall








From what I understand this helps the tire from not falling into the middle channel?

Does any one have these rim? Do they have that grove or channel next to the side wall? If not do you think it is necessary to have it?
Thanks, and sorry if this has been discussed already


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

vice grips said:


> Does any one have these rim? Do they have that grove or channel next to the side wall? If not do you think it is necessary to have it?
> Thanks, and sorry if this has been discussed already


I have the older hooked version of these and have had zero issues. Once the tire is inflated, I don't think there would be much chance of it falling into the center groove. My last tire change was a PITA due to the tire not wanting to release form the lip of the rim. A layer or two of tape makes a pretty decent bump. I used one layer of gorilla tape and have a season and a half of use so far. A few rock strikes, a bunch of concrete steps (up and down), and a good tree smack and they still work great. Running 22 to 26 PSI with Bontrager XR3 2.35f and 2.2r.

If I was ordering today, I would probably try these out. 32 internal isn't much wider.

Asymmetric


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

BXCc said:


> Asymmetric


It's about time. But I need a 29er  Probably worth waiting another month.

I wonder if they will switch completely to asymmetric. I am not sure that there is a case for symmetric rims on MTB that have asymmetric hub flanges.


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

Ya I'm looking for 29er too. It's that I really don't want to wait. I really hate these skinny ass rims!


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

CrozCountry said:


> It's about time. But I need a 29er  Probably worth waiting another month.
> 
> I wonder if they will switch completely to asymmetric. I am not sure that there is a case for symmetric rims on MTB that have asymmetric hub flanges.


Can you explain the advantages of asymmetric rims? And how would you lace them? Thanks


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## oaklandish (May 7, 2011)

You would lace them so the offset center spoke holes are to the non-drive side. This increases the bracing angle of the drive side spokes and brings the tension between the two sides closer to even. Even tension on the spokes produces a dramatically stronger wheel. Note: when done correctly, this will not affect dish.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

oaklandish said:


> You would lace them so the offset center spoke holes are to the non-drive side. This increases the bracing angle of the drive side spokes and brings the tension between the two sides closer to even. Even tension on the spokes produces a dramatically stronger wheel. Note: when done correctly, this will not affect dish.


So essentially the idea is to minimize the difference in spoke length used for drive side vs non-drive side? If that's the case then the offset side would be on drive side in front(disk side is closer to center in front). And non-drive side in rear(drive side is closer to center). Is that right?


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> So essentially the idea is to minimize the difference in spoke length used for drive side vs non-drive side? If that's the case then the offset side would be on drive side in front(disk side is closer to center in front). And non-drive side in rear(drive side is closer to center). Is that right?


The idea is to make the angle that the spokes enter the rim more even on both sides. Think angle not length, it will make it easier to understand. You want to move the rim holes as close as possible to the middle between the flanges (as opposed to the middle of the hub like a symmetric rim)


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## oaklandish (May 7, 2011)

^ picture is worth a thousand words.


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

Damit! Now I'm going to have to wait till these come out for 29ers


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

vice grips said:


> Damit! Now I'm going to have to wait till these come out for 29ers


Why do your wheels go out of true a ton now? Even Nox's website says it's only a 8% increase for a much larger increase in cost.


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

CrozCountry said:


> The idea is to make the angle that the spokes enter the rim more even on both sides. Think angle not length, it will make it easier to understand. You want to move the rim holes as close as possible to the middle between the flanges (as opposed to the middle of the hub like a symmetric rim)


I've built several road wheels using offset velocity rims but as to the these hubs... NOPE no thanks I'll pass.

If you can get a rim that is as good as or better than any other rim in its price range that is offset then great. But I'm not going to pass up on quality well known rims like ZTR Arch, Flow and tons of others for this.

If moving the flange towards the center is the answer to life's problems then shimano would have done it 20 years ago.

The correct thing to do would be for all the companies to get together decide on a standard and actually make use of 142 or switch to 150 instead of 142 using the same exact hub as a 135... Can't stand that...

Tempted to go 142+ on all my bikes and just modify them to make it work. Seen it done a couple different ways.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oaklandish (May 7, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> Why do your wheels go out of true a ton now? Even Nox's website says it's only a 8% increase for a much larger increase in cost.


Are you/they referring to lateral stiffness?

disclaimer: I didn't check the Nox site but;

the copy in that image crozcountry posted claims equal tension side to side. I generally seek out hubs that have flange spacings that offer better load distribution side to side(i.e widest and most equal, not narrowest and equal). And I have always noticed when I stress relieve my wheels while building them that one side is substantially stronger than the other, especially the rears (this is an exact and perfect scientific measurement done by my internationally renowned standardized calibrated triceps); and that the closer the balance of the bracing angle the closer each side is to the other in resistance to lateral deformation. My wheels generally never come out of true, but this stiffness inequality has to be something perceivable in real world scenarios.

If 8% stiffer is all Nox measures than so be it. If Nextie's asymmetric rims offer something along those lines and are the same price as a symmetric version then I'm all over those. Can't hurt. But I'll be all over 148mm (wish it was 150mm) and 110mm when they come around as well. They have the potential to really make a 29er wheel stiff and quick, like a much smaller one. That is as long as frame makers don't eat the added 6mm into their BB shells.


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## chinaisskrewinyou (May 18, 2015)

i saw this and just had to stop by. "(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?" if you buy something from china and expect quality , your a fool. dont complain when it fails. and it will.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

There are hundreds of happy posters in this thread. Just like the 29er frames thread. 

Take your prejudices elsewhere.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Fat Biker


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Win free 42mm width 29er carbon rims: Carbon Speed Grand Opening Giveaway - Win a FREE Set of Carbon Rims!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

I had a square edge hit with my LB 38 MM DH wheels and it tore the tire but not the rim. THe rim has a small ding but took that crash like a champ. I won't be worried about these wheels at all for those on the fence about buying.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Tonggi said:


> I had a square edge hit with my LB 38 MM DH wheels and it tore the tire but not the rim. THe rim has a small ding but took that crash like a champ. I won't be worried about these wheels at all for those on the fence about buying.


Many people that buy those rims want to save weight and don't go for the DH version, so the AM versions may not be as tough.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

The nextie rims came in today. 29er 35mm hookless. Weights came right around advertised. 412gr and 418gr. Cosmetically the looked great. Holes are clean and consistent. I can't see any flaws...time will tell but so far they look good. 

Communication with Brian was good. Quick to respond. He was happy to work with me on a unique decal, but due to the extra time i opted to just have them shipped raw. They included done reflective nextie decals in case I chose to apply them. Fast shipping. 

Pleasant experience....especially for the price!


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

*30mm depth 30mm width newest 29er rims without external spoke holes wheelset*

What do you guys think about our newest design rims 30mm depth 30mm width ? They are finished as wheelset, we can make these rims in XC and AM version, XC rims weigh around 380g/piece and you can see XC wheels without external spoke holes weigh around 1400g/pair

We are planning to make 28mm depth 29er rims similar Nox offset rims as well. we haven't listed these rims and wheels on our website yet

Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterxu1206


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

PeterXu said:


> What do you guys think about our newest design rims 30mm depth 30mm width ? They are finished as wheelset, we can make these rims in XC and AM version, XC rims weigh around 380g/piece and you can see XC wheels without external spoke holes weigh around 1400g/pair


Those look very nice, will they be available to purchase the rims or only as a wheelset?

How do the nipples attach to the rim?


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

PeterXu said:


> What do you guys think about our newest design rims 30mm depth 30mm width ? They are finished as wheelset, we can make these rims in XC and AM version, XC rims weigh around 380g/piece and you can see XC wheels without external spoke holes weigh around 1400g/pair


I think many buy those rims and build wheels or have a builder do it. Without external holes its a pita. I imagine many builders will not want to touch it, or charge triple for a build. Especially with all the talk about corrosion of nipples, how do you replace a nipple? Or check for corrosion (which is usually inside the rim in the photos that I have seen)? I would prefer to have the holes.


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

dimitrin said:


> Those look very nice, will they be available to purchase the rims or only as a wheelset?
> 
> How do the nipples attach to the rim?


They are available to purchase both rims and wheelset. I will arrange to take a video so that you can see how to assemble these wheels.


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

PeterXu said:


> They are available to purchase both rims and wheelset. I will arrange to take a video so that you can see how to assemble these wheels.


Just explain,

Looks like you drop them in through the valve hole and shake it around till it falls in place! I hope these don't cost more since they look like they cost less to make.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

CrozCountry said:


> I think many buy those rims and build wheels or have a builder do it. Without external holes its a pita. I imagine many builders will not want to touch it, or charge triple for a build. Especially with all the talk about corrosion of nipples, how do you replace a nipple? Or check for corrosion (which is usually inside the rim in the photos that I have seen)? I would prefer to have the holes.


Id be careful about paying a "pro" to build any carbon wheel or any wheel really. You gotta ship it out to a reputable builder local shops are like playing the lottery. Most cant even build an aluminum wheel correctly let alone a carbon one. Have the Chinese build your wheels or learn to build yourself. Carbon wheels build up different... Not more difficult just different and if your LBS hasnt been properly educated believe me they wont take the time to educate themselves.

Just read about some of the crazy shenanigans that go one when people choose to have a LBS build a wheel.

More care goes in when you do it yourself!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

CrozCountry said:


> It's about time. But I need a 29er  Probably worth waiting another month.
> 
> I wonder if they will switch completely to asymmetric. I am not sure that there is a case for symmetric rims on MTB that have asymmetric hub flanges.


Totally agree. I've been waiting for asym holes before I build my next set. There are some 29er asym models out there, at least in theory:

HR942C 2015 Newest design 29er carbon hookless rim 42mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

Not obvious how to order from that site, but peterxu that is always posting here is apparently their sales contact.

Full wheels here:
29er Offset Tubeless Rims DT350 Hubs MTB Carbon Wheels ACE-DTM933S for $869.00 in DT350S MTB Series - Wheels - MTB
Good value for the wheels w/ DT350 hubs but I want 32H. I emailed them to ask if they can sell the rims only.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

PeterXu said:


> They are available to purchase both rims and wheelset. I will arrange to take a video so that you can see how to assemble these wheels.


Thanks Peter.
I look forward to that video.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

InertiaMan said:


> I've been waiting for asym holes before I build my next set. There are some 29er asym models out there, at least in theory:
> 
> HR942C 2015 Newest design 29er carbon hookless rim 42mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


I'm waiting for wide (38-42mm external) 29er asymmetrical rims for my next build too.

These CarbonSpeed rims seem a nice option, even though the rim is not asymmetric, it just has offset spoke drilling. Any other word about them? Price?

I had word from Nextie that they're going to produce an asym 29er rim, 36mm wide, that's going to be another nice option but I'd be happier with something wider.

Other options?

I'm going to wait a couple of months anyway... let's see what comes out.


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

dimitrin said:


> Thanks Peter.
> I look forward to that video.





savo said:


> InertiaMan said:
> 
> 
> > I've been waiting for asym holes before I build my next set. There are some 29er asym models out there, at least in theory:
> ...


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Ordered a new pair on April 10th to replace my original AM hoops that I have abused for several years on my Niner RIP. The new 38mm wide hoops arrived this week (7 weeks from time of order to shipment arrival).

Excellent email correspondence throughout the process that was all initiated by LB to make sure the order was correct.

Boxed arrival...



__
https://flic.kr/p/tp6Q6p
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Now to unpack these bad boys...



__
https://flic.kr/p/tLVRFi
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



__
https://flic.kr/p/tJodm7
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

The larger width rims are certainly looking big and beefy compared to what I have been running! I like the subtle graphics and think Light Bicycle has upped their game from the original rims I've been running in terms of service, detail, and finished product.



__
https://flic.kr/p/tuedry
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Now to take them to the wheel builder for lacing...


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Can you weigh them? Thanks!!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

dgw7000 said:


> Can you weigh them? Thanks!!


410 for one, 420 for the other


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

That's light for 29er rims at 38mm!!


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

BruceBrown said:


> Ordered a new pair on April 10th to replace my original AM hoops that I have abused for several years on my Niner RIP. The new 38mm wide hoops arrived this week (7 weeks from time of order to shipment arrival).
> 
> Excellent email correspondence throughout the process that was all initiated by LB to make sure the order was correct.
> 
> ...


Hey man, you may have a builder you trust but theres lots of horror stories about wheel local bike shops screwing these up.

Given any thought to doing it yourself?

You need a park tools tension meter. You can dish and true the wheels in a bicycle that has rim brakes. However if the builder makes you buy spokes from them for the money you save you could buy a dish gauge. Also it costs around $15 to true a wheel so a lot of people build their wheels and then take them to a shop to have them finished.

Youll also need to buy spoke prep or boiled linseed oil.

I prefer linseed oil and then once everything is done and I ride them around for a day or 2 then I put a drop of thread locker in the back of the nipple in the hole. You dont need it because of how high tension the spokes are on a carbon wheel but it never hurts to use it.

Boiled linseed oil works as a lubricant at first but then dries into a threadlocker like substance just nowhere near as hard. Its very similar to spoke prep in that it acts as your lubricant then becomes your thread locker.

When you have a LBS build a carbon mountain bike wheel you run the risk of having spokes that are not as high tension as they should be for carbon and you run the risk of spokes having significantly different tensions. With an aluminum wheel you tighten them to a point and then you do the rest to make the wheel straight and round. With carbon its different. The wheel is so rigid that you could have a loose spoke and the rim could still be straight and round but then you could have a much tighter spoke on each side of that spoke. That could result in a spoke breaking or pulling through the wheel.

Also i mentioned spokes... If you buy them online you can get DT Comps with brass nipples for less than $1.50/ea.

They cost less than some LBSs can get them for and the LBSs around me want $2.50-4.00 a spoke for double butted spokes without nipples.

Overall the money you save can buy you your tension meter dish gauge and maybe even a used truing stand (which you just dont need use a bike with rim brakes or pay a shop to finish them at $15 a wheel)

All that said if you really really have a good relationship with your shop and you trust them completely I still recommend you drop $50 on a tension meter so you can check their work and check the wheels every couple months.

Because again you can have a loose spoke without the wheel wobbling.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

savo said:


> I'm waiting for wide (38-42mm external) 29er asymmetrical rims for my next build too.
> 
> These CarbonSpeed rims seem a nice option, even though the rim is not asymmetric, it just has offset spoke drilling. Any other word about them? Price?


The CarbonSpeed HR942C seems like the only one currently available. Apparently they are shipping now, $170-ish plus typical shipping from China ($50/pair + paypal fee).
I would also prefer a true asymmetric profile, rather than simple offset drilling, but the offset drilling alone is an improvement over center drilling. One nice feature is the thicker/reinforced spoke hole area on these rims.



savo said:


> I had word from Nextie that they're going to produce an asym 29er rim, 36mm wide, that's going to be another nice option but I'd be happier with something wider.


Did they give any tentative dates for availability? I emailed them but haven't received a response. If its not a many month wait, and the design is similar to their current 27.5 asym profile, I think they would be preferable to the CarbonSpeed model above.



savo said:


> Other options?


CarbonSpeed tells me they have a 28/23mm wide true asym design that should be available by July or so. So for those wanting a racier/lighter/narrower rim, that would be worth waiting for.


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## oaklandish (May 7, 2011)

oaklandish said:


> Brian emailed me this morning and said that he would ship another rim to replace the faulty one.
> 
> Here's hoping the replacement is correct and doesn't take too long.
> 
> ...


Following up on this. Brian sent me a new replacement rim that looks to be about as perfect as could be made. Great response and follow-up customer service. The replacement does not have the same "carbon tunnel" through the valve stem that the top image shows. Wheels ride awesome and built up great with the exception of the spokes. I went budget and built with round DB spokes and forgot how much more work it is to build with them versus using bladed spokes.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Givmedew said:


> Hey man, you may have a builder you trust but theres lots of horror stories about wheel local bike shops screwing these up.
> 
> Given any thought to doing it yourself?


Good suggestions, but I leave the wheel building to those that specialize in the art and know what they are doing. I have a rather eclectic collection of wheels as it is, so adding all the tools and know how in my crowded garage for myself to take on more DIY projects would be yet another diversion from my busy life of work, play, house, yard and auto maintenance.

No local shop for these doo-dad rims.

LaceMine29.com (Mike Curiak) will be entrusted to lace these up as he has built excellent wheels for me in the past.:thumbsup:

BB


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

InertiaMan said:


> The CarbonSpeed HR942C seems like the only one currently available. Apparently they are shipping now, $170-ish plus typical shipping from China ($50/pair + paypal fee).
> I would also prefer a true asymmetric profile, rather than simple offset drilling, but the offset drilling alone is an improvement over center drilling. One nice feature is the thicker/reinforced spoke hole area on these rims.
> 
> Did they give any tentative dates for availability? I emailed them but haven't received a response. If its not a many month wait, and the design is similar to their current 27.5 asym profile, I think they would be preferable to the CarbonSpeed model above.


I'd prefer the asym profile used by Nextie for the 27.5 too, but the extra width of this CarbonSpeed is tempting, as Nextie's 29er will be 36mm only... Brian told me they're probably going to be available in june/july.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

Givmedew said:


> Hey man, you may have a builder you trust but theres lots of horror stories about wheel local bike shops screwing these up.
> 
> Given any thought to doing it yourself?
> 
> ...


I like building my own wheels but I must admit it was not without its angst and learning curve frustrations. There were so many different opinions on every part and every step of the process. Which spokes to use, brass or aluminum nipples, spokeprep or not, spoke length calculations, spoke tension decisions...you get the picture. I am a retired guy with no kids so I have the time to dwell on such first world problems but I can fully appreciate after having gone through the process that if I had a really busy life I might just leave the wheel build to somebody with experience. That being said I would be really particular about the reputation of the builder that I chose. Don't assume that every mechanic at every shop can build a wheel.

I have a truing stand and a tensionmeter so I will every so often check out the tension and trueness of my wheels. Between those sessions I make it a habit of checking my spoke tension quickly by plucking the spokes and listening for 'acoustic similarity' or whatever you want to call it. You can really tell when a spoke is out of tune.

I think the linseed oil is good idea. Spokeprep had varying opinions. I didn't want to use loctite so in the end I greased them as some suggested. It certainly has made readjustment much easier but I am wondering if those readjustments would have been nonexistent with something that bound the threads just a little.


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## zoe07 (May 11, 2015)

As I saw there were many people ask about asymmetric rim here, what do you think of our new 29er asymmetric rim, it's available now. It's 28mm external 22mm internal with 25mm depth.







If you are interested, welcome to contact me.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

How do you make adjustments in spoke length calculators when using an asymmetric rim? The only number you plug in is ERD and would that not be the same for a symmetric or asymmetric rim?


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## mtmiller (Nov 1, 2006)

Snipe said:


> How do you make adjustments in spoke length calculators when using an asymmetric rim? The only number you plug in is ERD and would that not be the same for a symmetric or asymmetric rim?


Many spoke calculators utilize spoke offset.


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## mtmiller (Nov 1, 2006)

Snipe said:


> I can fully appreciate after having gone through the process that if I had a really busy life I might just leave the wheel build to somebody with experience. That being said I would be really particular about the reputation of the builder that I chose. Don't assume that every mechanic at every shop can build a wheel.
> 
> I think the linseed oil is good idea. Spokeprep had varying opinions. I didn't want to use loctite so in the end I greased them as some suggested. It certainly has made readjustment much easier but I am wondering if those readjustments would have been nonexistent with something that bound the threads just a little.


So much good advice! I would echo every one of those thoughts. I'd also add that it is very easy to make your own dish gauge out of scrap wood and a screw.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Snipe said:


> How do you make adjustments in spoke length calculators when using an asymmetric rim? The only number you plug in is ERD and would that not be the same for a symmetric or asymmetric rim?


If the calculator you are using doesn't support this parameter directly, just artificially adjust the flange spacing values to reflect the offset spoke holes.

For example, say your hub is 20mm center-to-DSflange, and 30mm center-to-NDSflange. If the rim has 3mm offset, just enter 23mm for DS and 27mm for NDS.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Received 2 27.5 40mm rims from Nextie today. Rims looked good except the ERD was no where near the 542 that is advertised on Nextie's website. I measured the ERD on the rims I got to 547. Not sure where they are getting the 542 value from(I even e-mailed Brian and he confirmed the 542 number). Anyone else with the 27.5 rims and measured the ERD to 547 instead of 542?


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Just a follow up. A couple solid rides on the nextie 35mm 29er hookless rims and so far they are great! Very ridgid. Great rims. Thanks Brian!


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## zoe07 (May 11, 2015)

Snipe said:


> How do you make adjustments in spoke length calculators when using an asymmetric rim? The only number you plug in is ERD and would that not be the same for a symmetric or asymmetric rim?


Some spoke calculators can fill in OSB (offset spoke bed), if there isn't, I think what InertiaMan said is feasible.
I'm not good at wheel building, but I find something, hope that may be helpful to you.

The Easy Way: Calculate spoke length as if the rim were symmetrical. Then add 1mm to the right side and subtract 1mm from the left side on rear wheels, or add 1mm to the disc side and subtract 1mm from the non-disc side of front wheels.

The Exact Way: The idea is to adjust the hub widths to mimic the rim offset. (The change in spoke length is the same whether the rim moves relative to the hub, or the hub moves relative to the rim.) To do this, just change the left and right flange offsets by the rim offset.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

zoe07 said:


> As I saw there were many people ask about asymmetric rim here, what do you think of our new 29er asymmetric rim, it's available now. It's 28mm external 22mm internal with 25mm depth.
> View attachment 993091
> 
> If you are interested, welcome to contact me.


I'd like to see asymmetric in 35mm and more internal at reasonable prices.
The last two rims I bought were $145.
I like the 25mm height and internal bead retaining ridge.
Profiles on your site lack internal dimensions.
You guys are resellers and your high price will lose the sale.


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

Just got an email from yet another Chinese carbon wheel company: ACE. Anyone heard of them?

http://************************/mou...-pull-dt350-hubs-mtb-carbon-wheels-acedtm933s

There's also a cool little video of their build process on that page.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dusadus (May 21, 2014)

fefillo said:


> Just got an email from yet another Chinese carbon wheel company: ACE. Anyone heard of them?
> 
> 29er Offset Tubeless Rims DT350 Hubs MTB Carbon Wheels ACE-DTM933S for $869.00 in DT350S MTB Series - Wheels - MTB
> 
> ...


Got the same email. Must've got it from light-bicycle as i previously purchased through them. I like that they have DT swiss 350 hubs available, but so far the email only shows a 33/26mm width rim. My next rim I'd want 30mm inner width...


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I realize these guys are probably resellers but does anyone have any experience with purchasing through boostbicycle? I've never heard of them. 


zoe07 said:


> As I saw there were many people ask about asymmetric rim here, what do you think of our new 29er asymmetric rim, it's available now. It's 28mm external 22mm internal with 25mm depth.
> View attachment 993091
> 
> If you are interested, welcome to contact me.


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

'Oh man; 291 pages an my head hurts. Can anyone recco to me a good carbon wheelset for 160# rider. Wheels go on FS short travel XC bike that will also get into a bit of AM / trail riding. Seems like hookless in 30mm maybe? Also, who are the best overseas retailers that build quality wheels (w/good parts) AND stand behind their product? Thanks in advance!


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## dusadus (May 21, 2014)

sfo423 said:


> 'Oh man; 291 pages an my head hurts. Can anyone recco to me a good carbon wheelset for 160# rider. Wheels go on FS short travel XC bike that will also get into a bit of AM / trail riding. Seems like hookless in 30mm maybe? Also, who are the best overseas retailers that build quality wheels (w/good parts) AND stand behind their product? Thanks in advance!


I ordered 30mm outer diameter wheel set with hope hubs from light bicycle via eBay. Came in about a month. Quite satisfied with them for now. I weigh 170 lbs and enjoy the chunkier side of single track on my xc bike. For my next trail oriented bike I would probably go for 35mm grim lb.

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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

sfo423 said:


> 'Oh man; 291 pages an my head hurts. Can anyone recco to me a good carbon wheelset for 160# rider. Wheels go on FS short travel XC bike that will also get into a bit of AM / trail riding. Seems like hookless in 30mm maybe? Also, who are the best overseas retailers that build quality wheels (w/good parts) AND stand behind their product? Thanks in advance!





dusadus said:


> I ordered 30mm outer diameter wheel set with hope hubs from light bicycle via eBay. Came in about a month. Quite satisfied with them for now. I weigh 170 lbs and enjoy the chunkier side of single track on my xc bike. For my next trail oriented bike I would probably go for 35mm grim lb.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree with the pre-built light bicycle hope or DT in 30mm.

Should allow you to run some big tires super low pressure to help with the lack of suspension.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## viccoastal (Sep 18, 2005)

Don't buy light bicycle rims. I have had two of their 30 mm crack through the side wall. One at 14 months and one at 9 months. Nothing spectacular just noticed cracks during cleaning.
No warranty on first rim and they are refusing to
refund for second rim. I can't trust their rims.
They seem like a good deal but be prepared to be disappointed.
I am 160 lb trail rider so either I am very unlucky or these rims are of suspect quality.

VC


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

viccoastal said:


> Don't buy light bicycle rims. I have had two of their 30 mm crack through the side wall. One at 14 months and one at 9 months. Nothing spectacular just noticed cracks during cleaning.
> No warranty on first rim and they are refusing to
> refund for second rim. I can't trust their rims.
> They seem like a good deal but be prepared to be disappointed.
> ...


Im hoping thats bad luck because if you cant trust LB you cant trust any direct from china company.

They keep changing their designs and who knows where the rim is coming from (actual source) for half these companies.

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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

Guys!!! I just ran into some bad luck. Not paying attention I tore into my wifes wheels to extract the hubs to build myself a nice set of Specialized Roval Control Carbon w/ DT 350 hubs!

Well!!!!

My wife's wheels where 28 spokes! DUH!!! I bought her a new bike and the dropouts are different so I had some hubs that would work (same hub spacing for the disc side spokes too!!! Well that isnt going to happen now.

I'm wondering if someone would trade me their chiner carbon 28H rims for my Rovals or trade my dt x1600/350 hubs (15 TA and 12x142 TA) for any 32H hub that weighs the same or less (same axle type or convertible. The hubs are definitely a 350 variant with the possibility that you might not be able to convert the front and the rears (not sure if you can do that on a 350 anyways.

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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Givmedew said:


> Guys!!! I just ran into some bad luck. Not paying attention I tore into my wifes wheels to extract the hubs to build myself a nice set of Specialized Roval Control Carbon w/ DT 350 hubs!
> 
> Well!!!!
> 
> ...


By the time you've factored in your shipping to the other party and their shipping to you (I would imagine you would foot the bill for this as they're doing you a favour ? ) would it not be almost as cheap to go for brand new hubs ?
Especially as you get to keep the excellent DT 350 LOOKY likey hubs too ?

Chinese convertible disc hubs

Especially as the DT350's seem to be convertible too.

DT Swiss end cap availability .

But it does seem to depend on year I believe . And you may need a new axle .Don't quote me as I have been known to be wrong 

Although I realise this doesn't solve the 28/32 hole issue , it may make keeping the hubs a more viable option.

Fat Biker


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

viccoastal said:


> Don't buy light bicycle rims. I have had two of their 30 mm crack through the side wall. One at 14 months and one at 9 months. Nothing spectacular just noticed cracks during cleaning.
> No warranty on first rim and they are refusing to
> refund for second rim. I can't trust their rims.
> They seem like a good deal but be prepared to be disappointed.
> ...


At this point there is enough evidence to the contrary, so I think it's bad luck. I don't think you'd be able to post a single brand that hasn't had a failure.


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

Fat Biker said:


> By the time you've factored in your shipping to the other party and their shipping to you (I would imagine you would foot the bill for this as they're doing you a favour ? ) would it not be almost as cheap to go for brand new hubs ?
> Especially as you get to keep the excellent DT 350 LOOKY likey hubs too ?
> 
> Chinese convertible disc hubs
> ...


Shipping US to US for carbon rims is like $15-20. I'm not sure HOW BIG a favor you would call getting a set of specialized in exchange chiner is. But yeh depends. As for converting yeh I think the rear can be converted but not the front. I think to go from 9mm to 12mm you need an axle but not the other way around.

The hubs match the weight of the corresponding 350s to a T so I think they should convert if the 350 converts.

Anyways doesn't solve the 28 vs 32 problem.

I'd rather pay some bucks in shipping IF someone had a set of 28s they hadn't out together and also just happened to not have bought their hubs yet.

Its an unlikely situation.

I the rims up on the bay and the hubs. See what happens I guess.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Givmedew said:


> Shipping US to US for carbon rims is like $15-20. I'm not sure HOW BIG a favor you would call getting a set of specialized in exchange chiner is. But yeh depends.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry we might be a little crossed but I was meaning for you to swap the hubs _not_ the rims 

Would a pair of hubs weigh more than rims ?

Bout the same I guess no ?

In the UK we now get charged on package size and / or weight depending who we choose to ship and how much they wanna scr3w us out of our hard earned 

So for me personally I would go for the free shipping cheap (but good reports) hubs to build up now, and save the DT's for a rainy day till I could get a matching set of cheap carbon rims.

Or if you're into eBay keep a look out for some good s/hand hubs.

Options options options . 

Fat Biker


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

So I bought some 40 mm nextie rims off their website with out emailing them. I haven't heard a thing from them in two weeks. Guess I should start inquiring


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## fefillo (Jul 24, 2014)

vice grips said:


> So I bought some 40 mm nextie rims off their website with out emailing them. I haven't heard a thing from them in two weeks. Guess I should start inquiring


Uhm... Probably?
Did you get any kind of confirmation email?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

vice grips said:


> So I bought some 40 mm nextie rims off their website with out emailing them. I haven't heard a thing from them in two weeks. Guess I should start inquiring


Took a bit over 3 weeks for mine to ship.


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

Fat Biker said:


> Sorry we might be a little crossed but I was meaning for you to swap the hubs _not_ the rims
> 
> Would a pair of hubs weigh more than rims ?
> 
> ...


Wait I'm confused... Did you used to be able to ship small things for a small fee regardless of weight?

In the US shipping has always been based off of weight or balloon rate. Balloon rate means that boxes over a certain size are billed at a specific weight regardless of its contents until you exceed that weight. For example I just shipped a package to New York that weighed 26LBs box 1 and 12LBs box 2 but the billable wait because of balloon rates was 81LBs and 42LBs. Luckily by shipping the 2 boxes as one shipment and using a UPS account that I had just set up it was only $70 to ship instead of $130 at the UPS store. It was a cannondale bad boy 1 and i put the wheels and tires in a separate box so it doesn't damage the frame if pressure is placed on the box.

Anyways long story short in the US we have always paid for weight and size

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Givmedew said:


> Wait I'm confused... Did you used to be able to ship small things for a small fee regardless of weight?


This is about the size of it yes. For "letters" at least. 
Even small boxes could be sent at "letter" rates .

Packages (if they were more "box" / cube shaped were based on weight and not size upto a certain point . But they had to be over the size of a shoe box to jump up to this category though to not be considered a "letter". Even then the size didn't matter too much you could ship something a couple of foot cubed for the same rate as something shoe box (ish) sized . Provided they were a similar weight.

It may have been just how my local post office did things though . It was very rural and hit/ miss. So whether you got the 1 or 2 day or week service you paid for lied with the Gods 

Sorry for the confusion. we are a bit strange in our ways over here LOL

Fat Biker


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

We reinforce the spoke holes on our HR942C , HR742C RM950C and RM750C rims.

HR942C 2015 Newest design 29er carbon hookless rim 42mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

And now we are offering giveaway here on Chinertown: Carbon Speed Grand Opening Giveaway - Win a FREE Set of Carbon Rims!

Attached some pictures for reference






















Email: [email protected]
Skype: peterxu1206


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

pwu_1 said:


> Took a bit over 3 weeks for mine to ship.


I got a confirmation email but didn't get any kind of estimate on when I would get them, or when they would ship


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

vice grips said:


> I got a confirmation email but didn't get any kind of estimate on when I would get them, or when they would ship


Same here. Just the confirmation e-mail. I e-mailed them for an update about 2 weeks in and they replied with an estimated date of when it would ship(they missed that date by about a week but I did tell them I wasn't in any hurry). Once it shipped I got an e-mail with tracking number and it took less than 1 week to arrive in California


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

Cool tanks


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

PeterXu said:


> We reinforce the spoke holes on our HR942C , HR742C RM950C and RM750C rims.
> 
> HR942C 2015 Newest design 29er carbon hookless rim 42mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


Out of curiosity, how comes the carbon is not visible? Are those rims painted?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

CrozCountry said:


> Out of curiosity, how comes the carbon is not visible? Are those rims painted?


As far as I can see you can see the carbon. It doesn't look painted to me. It's just UD and not the commonly associated "weave" people expect carbon to have.

Fat Biker


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

After emailing nextie I got an email back saying my rims will be done in two weeks and they would ship them out two days after. Well thats what I thought they were trying to say?


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## Swisscycler (Jun 11, 2015)

I'm looking for light carbon wheelset for XC Allround. Prefer Centerlock DT Hub with Sapim Spoke and around 30mm rim width.

Thank`s for helping


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Just order the rims, shoes and hubs separate. Have a trusted shop build them.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Swisscycler said:


> I'm looking for light carbon wheelset for XC Allround. Prefer Centerlock DT Hub with Sapim Spoke and around 30mm rim width.


A 35/30mm rim from Carbonbicycle is $145+ ship.
Hibike, bikecomponents.de, Bike24 and others have good pricing for DT hubs and Sapim Laser spokes.
Carbon rims are stiff and because of this easy to build. Even for a first time builder.


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## Swisscycler (Jun 11, 2015)

What about this Set?
carbonality.com/dt350-mtb-wheels.html


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

Looks like a decent deal vs. usual suspects of Chinese wheels. The shipping $ is buzz kill.


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## Swisscycler (Jun 11, 2015)

sfo423 said:


> Looks like a decent deal vs. usual suspects of Chinese wheels. The shipping $ is buzz kill.


Shipping fee cost 74 by EMS. I think about to buy because if i order these parts seperate. It would be more expensive. Have anyone tried this chinese wheelset?

"Sorry for my English, it`s not my first language"


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Pictures for HR942C 42mm width 3mm offset wheels and HR940C 40mm width wheels

Email: [email protected]


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## Swisscycler (Jun 11, 2015)

Thank`s for coming up preter.
Looks great but im looking fot dt hub 350s or 240.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Swisscycler said:


> Shipping fee cost 74 by EMS. I think about to buy because if i order these parts seperate. It would be more expensive. Have anyone tried this chinese wheelset?


I have used the Carbonbicycle 35/30 rim with a 350 rear hub j spoke 32h with a 36t star ratchet upgrade. I laced it...an easy build. It has been a very good wheel over a broad range of conditions. I have a 28 hole version for a DT 240 front hub. I would not go with a skinnier rim. The rim is, imo, the same as the Carbonal 35/30 rim in the wheel you listed.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Swisscycler said:


> Thank`s for coming up preter.
> Looks great but im looking fot dt hub 350s or 240.


I went with the 350's because they are so versatile and easy for my needs (swap between 15mm TA and QR). Obviously the 240's are a bit lighter, but the 350's weight doesn't bother me.

Lots of places could build for you, but customs/VAT is an issue for you with any wheel built outside of your home country. Why not just have a local builder (assuming you are in Switzerland) easily source the home grown DT Swiss hubs and spokes and lace up to whatever rims you need. If you order the rims from Light Bicycle, they do a good job of claiming a lower price for customs. The wait will be a month or two, but if you have the patience to wait...


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## Swisscycler (Jun 11, 2015)

BruceBrown said:


> I went with the 350's because they are so versatile and easy for my needs (swap between 15mm TA and QR). Obviously the 240's are a bit lighter, but the 350's weight doesn't bother me.
> 
> Lots of places could build for you, but customs/VAT is an issue for you with any wheel built outside of your home country. Why not just have a local builder (assuming you are in Switzerland) easily source the home grown DT Swiss hubs and spokes and lace up to whatever rims you need. If you order the rims from Light Bicycle, they do a good job of claiming a lower price for customs. The wait will be a month or two, but if you have the patience to wait...


Ok so i loock just for rims and maybe i chose the new 180s carbon titan hub. The DT 350 is built in Taiwan. What kind of rim would you prefer for xc 2.25 tire with schwalbe procore system?

Schwalbe // PROCORE


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## Swisscycler (Jun 11, 2015)

BruceBrown said:


> I went with the 350's because they are so versatile and easy for my needs (swap between 15mm TA and QR). Obviously the 240's are a bit lighter, but the 350's weight doesn't bother me.
> 
> Lots of places could build for you, but customs/VAT is an issue for you with any wheel built outside of your home country. Why not just have a local builder (assuming you are in Switzerland) easily source the home grown DT Swiss hubs and spokes and lace up to whatever rims you need. If you order the rims from Light Bicycle, they do a good job of claiming a lower price for customs. The wait will be a month or two, but if you have the patience to wait...


So i just look for rim and maybe i built with new dt 180s carbon titan hub. What kind of rim would you prefer for Hardtail XC Allround with 2.25 tire?

I think about the new Schwalbe Procore system.
Schwalbe // PROCORE


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I haven't used Procore but for 2.2 or 2.25 tires with a rounded profile like Bontrager XR1 Team 2.2s(Hibike has them) and probably Schwalbe Thunder Burt 2.25s when I finally get some I am using last years 35/30 hookless carbon rim. The new releases this year are a little wider like the 42/36 several sources are offering with reinforced spoke holes and 3mm offset drilling. I haven't used that rim. The 35/30 is working really well for XC race tires.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Swisscycler said:


> So i just look for rim and maybe i built with new dt 180s carbon titan hub. What kind of rim would you prefer for Hardtail XC Allround with 2.25 tire?
> 
> I think about the new Schwalbe Procore system.
> Schwalbe // PROCORE


I've been riding the AM Light Bicycle 29"er rims for a few years (THESE are probalby the current version equivalent). They are still golden, but I'm getting another pair built with the wider hookless bead rims (THESE).

I ride 2.2/2.25/2.3/2.35/2.4" 29"er tires on those with no issues for XC riding on HT and FS bikes. I can't compare the wider rims I have being built into wheels - yet - but plenty others have chimed in about the wider rims for XC riding.

I would imagine you would be fine with the 27mm width, the 30mm width, or if you want to go FAT and aggressive - the 35mm width. I went with that because I will be using them on the FS bikes.


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

Swisscycler said:


> So i just look for rim and maybe i built with new dt 180s carbon titan hub. What kind of rim would you prefer for Hardtail XC Allround with 2.25 tire?
> 
> I think about the new Schwalbe Procore system.
> Schwalbe // PROCORE


If you are actually buying those awesome hubs and garbage tubes don't waste your money on playing russian roulette with the chiner rims (yes its russian roulette I have bought several chiner bikes and rims). With the ass raping and price gauging your already accepting just get raped a little more and buy some thin american rims that cost 2x as much as the chiners.

Sorry but DT180s don't belong in the same sentence as Chinese cheap carbon especially when your stupid ass is going to pay the same amount for a tube as a rim!

All these i bought Chinese rim lovers who want to back up their purchase by saying everything is so great!!! Most of the stuff I have received from China required a little bit of fit and finish ok ok a lot of fit and finish if it was a frame.

But for someone throwing cash in the burner... Dont waste your time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

So many overseas vendors for these wheels, but it looks like a lot of the actual rims are from the same manufacturer (using T700). I was looking for a 29er wheel set, 30mm, hookless, decent spokes & hubs and although a lot of vendors are speccing Novatec and no-name spokes, the price range goes from $500s to $900s (factoring in shipping to US and the ridiculous PayPal 3% to 4% "premium"). 

Can anyone recommend a vendor that provided a good build w/good parts and a good price?


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

sfo423 said:


> So many overseas vendors for these wheels, but it looks like a lot of the actual rims are from the same manufacturer (using T700). I was looking for a 29er wheel set, 30mm, hookless, decent spokes & hubs and although a lot of vendors are speccing Novatec and no-name spokes, the price range goes from $500s to $900s (factoring in shipping to US and the ridiculous PayPal 3% to 4% "premium").
> 
> Can anyone recommend a vendor that provided a good build w/good parts and a good price?


I have two sets of LB hookless. One is 650b 35mm external width on a SC Bronson as an enduro/trail ride and the other is 29er 30mm external on a SC tallboy as my more racer XC bike. I have had zero issues with either. Have had them almost 2 years now and ride them hard here in Whistler...but not the bike park. I built them both myself with DT 350 hubs, revolution spokes, alloy nips. Both came in around the $725 mark. You could make them a little lighter with 240 hubs but you will be in $1000 range and that didn't make sense to me to save the small amount of weight. The build was easy but dt revolutions you have to watch the wind up. The only thing I would change about the rims is I would get directional drilling on the spoke holes and maybe go asymmetric. My spoke holes are centered and are straight drilled and you can definitely see the very slight bend at the nipple spoke junction. so far I haven't any issues with broken spokes but it would be nice if they were either drilled directionally or the holes were alternating offset from the center line. I see lots of Enve wheels around these parts and I wouldn't pay the price for them considering the abuse they take here.


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

Is this even an option when ordering complete wheels? I'll add it to the list of requirements.



Snipe said:


> The only thing I would change about the rims is I would get directional drilling on the spoke holes and maybe go asymmetric.


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## ThePonyExpress (Nov 26, 2013)

sfo423 said:


> So many overseas vendors for these wheels, but it looks like a lot of the actual rims are from the same manufacturer (using T700). I was looking for a 29er wheel set, 30mm, hookless, decent spokes & hubs and although a lot of vendors are speccing Novatec and no-name spokes, the price range goes from $500s to $900s (factoring in shipping to US and the ridiculous PayPal 3% to 4% "premium").
> 
> Can anyone recommend a vendor that provided a good build w/good parts and a good price?


For 2 years I have been using 2 of the hooked wheelsets from Peter who now has his own company, selling those carbon rims/wheelsets. Those first 2 wheelset have many thousands of miles on them (I'm an endurance rider) and are still in perfect shape...well, one of them is.

I cracked a rim hitting a pothole at 25 mph but didn't even know it...I lost some air (running tubeless) but the wheel held together for me to finish the 143 mile BWR race.

Emailed Peter and he immediately responded (very typical), I eventually ordered 2 of the new hookless 24mm internal width rims (for my 'cross/gravel bike). They arrived 7 days later and my wheelbuilder was stunned at the quality...he will likely be ordering some himself. Peter saved the day for me, since I was leaving for Dirty Kanza just a few days later.

These new wide hookless rims are amazing - the quality is noticeably higher than the prior gen I'd been using and I gotta tell ya - mounting TCS and SCT tires to them is a dream. I've been tubeless for 4 years now, NEVER going back.

You can find Peter at Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd Yes, it seems like most of the vendors are selling the product, so in that case, the relationship with someone over there actually matters. I'm very glad I've got Peter in my hip pocket - he's absolutely great to work with. I will be ordering more wheels from him, that is for sure.

Pricing-wise he's totally competitive with everyone and yes, you have to pay the Paypal fee, but even with that, and shipping, the 24mm hookless wheelset with Novatec hubs (which have been totally reliable for me) runs only ~$650. Find me another wheelset of comparable quality at that price.

Mike San Diego, CA


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Another quick review of Peter at Carbon Speed's wheels. I bought this set :

(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims? - Page 290- Mtbr.com

no-spoke hole rims built with 240 dt swiss hubs and cx ray spokes. Didn't weigh them myself but I trust his 1400g weight. They're damn light.

My previous wheels:
Enve (Edge) carbon wheels 26" 
SRAM rise 60.

So first off Peter got these to me in less than a week. Yep. Packed perfectly and all. I suppose he had them ready to go but that should be commended. I previously bought a set of wheels and frame from a chinese carbon company that took over 2 months to get them even into the states, then the package stalled after getting through customs due to them miswriting the address. Long story short I've had bad experiences and had to refund through paypal so was a bit wary. I'd say if you're going to order direct from China, do it through Peter. Great response and like I said took less than a week (although they were ready to go already)

Now on to the wheels. I literally got the wheels and went to wednesday night race a few hours later. They feel super light. Tubeless mounted easily, just with stems. One tire seated with just a floor pump, the other I was rushed and used Co2. I did burp a tire in a jump 5 min into the race... but hey I literally mounted them right before. And after re-inflating no more issues. Felt much stiffer torsionally than rise 60 wheels. Other than that, you're getting cx-ray spokes and dt swiss 240 hubs. What else can be said about the quality??? The rim quality I'd say is right there to match the hubs. And as good as the rise 60 rims. Wheel build felt nice. I might check the spoke tension myself but seemed ok by hand. Will update if anything changes riding the wheels more.

Also I should mention these are the 30 ext 25 interior width rims. They're not super wide as is the vogue, but they're on the wider end of the spectrum to what else is out there (enve, etc). And they're very light too, so a good balance for trail/am riding IMO.

So in short I'd say you're getting 99% of an enve set of wheel (plus the no spoke holes to tape) in a lighter package for about 1/4 of the price.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

What is the procedure for replacing a spoke if need be?
I am very interested in these rims but I am not sure how the spoke, nipple and rim attach. Does the nipple thread into the rim from the outside?


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

bhsavery said:


> Another quick review of Peter at Carbon Speed's wheels. I bought this set :
> 
> (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims? - Page 290- Mtbr.com
> 
> ...


what did they cost you all in with shipping, paypal fee etc.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

dimitrin said:


> What is the procedure for replacing a spoke if need be?
> I am very interested in these rims but I am not sure how the spoke, nipple and rim attach. Does the nipple thread into the rim from the outside?


Honestly I haven't gotten there yet. If you just break a spoke and still have the nipple sticking through it shouldn't be that hard to rethread.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Snipe said:


> what did they cost you all in with shipping, paypal fee etc.


Less than a thousand USD. I suppose talk to peter about specifics? Ok I guess that's more like 1/3 of enve. But still. Also didn't have to pay an import fee.


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## JChrichton4 (May 23, 2015)

So I'm set to build my second China carbon bike and I thought "in for a penny..." So I think that my new mountain bike will have home build wheels. I am building a 650b and this is a 29er forum so I hope I don't run afoul of the technicality police. anyway, this forum has been good for info so far. is there any feedback on Hope 2 hubs?


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

I am looking at two very similar options, different vendors (light-bicycle and XMIPlay).

-Light-bicycle WML29C02: 
Rim:beadless/hookless, 30mmx20mm 32/32
Hub: Novatec D811/D812
Spoke: Pillar Aero X-TRA 1420
Nips: Pillar PT 734
$733 to door

-XMIPlay DSS IP-HR930CDSS	
Rim: hookless wheels 30/23.5 32/32
Hub: Novatec mtb D771/D772
Spoke: Sapim CX-Delta
Nips: Sapim SILS
$643 to door

You can get DT 240's & Hope's as an upgrade, but price is now >$200 more. I figured I'd ride the Novatecs until the seals need replacing (or do it earlier).

Which "appears" to be the better set up and which seller/company has provided better product & service in the event a warranty was needed? Anyone been looking at these two?

LB cutaway: 








XMIPlay cutaway:


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

sfo423 said:


> I am looking at two very similar options, different vendors (light-bicycle and XMIPlay).
> 
> -Light-bicycle WML29C02:
> Rim:beadless/hookless, 30mmx20mm 32/32
> ...


Note that the internal width of the two is different. LB is 24 and that means that the sidewalls are 3mm and not 2mm for the xmiplay. I would go for the LB and the thicker sidewall. but I would not get the pillar spokes. Not that there is anything wrong with them or bad reviews but I tried to source them local and in north america and they are hard to find. Go with something that is easier to find or get lots of spares for when you drop the chain or derailleur into your spokes.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

JChrichton4 said:


> So I'm set to build my second China carbon bike and I thought "in for a penny..." So I think that my new mountain bike will have home build wheels. I am building a 650b and this is a 29er forum so I hope I don't run afoul of the technicality police. anyway, this forum has been good for info so far. is there any feedback on Hope 2 hubs?


I have both the Hope 2 and DT350 hubs. The only advantage that the Hope hubs have is that on my wheelset from CRC they came with end caps to convert them from thru axles to QR. The rear bearings in the Hope have never felt right despite having the bearings replaced. As soon as they were inserted they felt gritty. Perhaps just my lemon. I will be chatting with Hope again when they are here for Crankworx. The 350s have been faultless and easy to take apart and maintain. 240s would be nice but too expensive for my use.


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

It looks like you can swap out spokes to DT Swiss Comp for no charge:

all mountain 29er carbon mtb wheels clincher tubeless wheel ready Light-Bicycle



Snipe said:


> Note that the internal width of the two is different. LB is 24 and that means that the sidewalls are 3mm and not 2mm for the xmiplay. I would go for the LB and the thicker sidewall. but I would not get the pillar spokes. Not that there is anything wrong with them or bad reviews but I tried to source them local and in north america and they are hard to find. Go with something that is easier to find or get lots of spares for when you drop the chain or derailleur into your spokes.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

sfo423 said:


> I am looking at two very similar options, different vendors (light-bicycle and XMIPlay).
> 
> -Light-bicycle WML29C02:
> Rim:beadless/hookless, 30mmx20mm 32/32
> ...


Do some research on the hubs. Novatec has many hubs models which have different features, upgrades and possible conversion options. I have a pair of DS881/882 that is bomb proof and supports all the major axle sizes. Some hubs come with steel and aluminum axle and freehub upgrade options. Good to do some research because the cost is similar but the features vary.


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

These are the new U shaped 30/24 LB rims, should be a bit stronger then the RM29C02 rim: U shape 29er rim 30mm wide hookless MTB bike carbon rims tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle



sfo423 said:


> I am looking at two very similar options, different vendors (light-bicycle and XMIPlay).
> 
> -Light-bicycle WML29C02:
> Rim:beadless/hookless, 30mmx20mm 32/32
> ...


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Snipe said:


> I have both the Hope 2 and DT350 hubs. The only advantage that the Hope hubs have is that on my wheelset from CRC they came with end caps to convert them from thru axles to QR. The rear bearings in the Hope have never felt right despite having the bearings replaced. As soon as they were inserted they felt gritty. Perhaps just my lemon. I will be chatting with Hope again when they are here for Crankworx. The 350s have been faultless and easy to take apart and maintain. 240s would be nice but too expensive for my use.


I know the 350 front hub can also come with a quick and easy axle to convert from TA to QR (at least the one I just bought did) with no hassle. The 240 hubs require a tool to convert and it is not a quick and easy conversion like the 350 front hub.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

BruceBrown said:


> I know the 350 front hub can also come with a quick and easy axle to convert from TA to QR (at least the one I just bought did) with no hassle. The 240 hubs require a tool to convert and it is not a quick and easy conversion like the 350 front hub.


I've looked at several of the conversions. Some of the 350 fronts if you bought them originally in the QR were not convertible. If you buy them in the 15mm thru then no problem with the axle conversions. Just that when I bought my Hope wheels they came with both sets of end caps and its super easy to switch between the two front or rear. When I compare the Hope vs the DT 350 on the rear I would take the DT.

I looked at the Bike Hub Store hubs that have been mentioned. The rear is much cheaper than the DT or Hope but I was surprised that the front was not that much of a savings.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Snipe said:


> I looked at the Bike Hub Store hubs that have been mentioned. The rear is much cheaper than the DT or Hope but I was surprised that the front was not that much of a savings.


Interesting. I looked at their website too, do you know who makes those hubs (joytech?) How many engagement point? They are very light.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

BHS - Bitex hubs. I have a pair of the road hubs and they are great. I have heard mostly good things about their mtb hubs. Their customer service is great! I believe they are 48 POE.


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## JChrichton4 (May 23, 2015)

Great info, thanks. My plan is to buy everything on sale to keep the costs down and to get the best parts that I can afford. this is a bit of a departure from my road bike but mtb's are WAY more complicated. for me that's part of the fun.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

My latest build, 30mm external, 24internal AM. This one was sold with a crash replacement "discount" from carbonbicycle after I cracked a rim against a sharp rock some time ago. The original decal read "carbon fan", I like the font but thought it sounded kind of cheesy so I removed a couple of letters, now its more "abstract". They wheel built up very easily. I am reusing the spokes and hub from the stock wheel that came with my bike.

























Cheers


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## agentsmith (Jan 27, 2010)

BartP said:


> These are the new U shaped 30/24 LB rims, should be a bit stronger then the RM29C02 rim:


I ordered these the day they showed up on the site. 1 month to show up. They look good. Waiting on spokes.

Measured ERD is 592mm. YMMV.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

agentsmith said:


> I ordered these the day they showed up on the site. 1 month to show up.


Is that about the normal delivery time to the states? 1 month wait might be a deal breaker. They look good tho!


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

PeterXu said:


> What do you guys think about our newest design rims 30mm depth 30mm width ? They are finished as wheelset, we can make these rims in XC and AM version, XC rims weigh around 380g/piece and you can see XC wheels without external spoke holes weigh around 1400g/pair
> 
> We are planning to make 28mm depth 29er rims similar Nox offset rims as well. we haven't listed these rims and wheels on our website yet
> 
> ...


Peter you had offered to post a video that demonstrates the spoke installation procedure for this rim. I am interested in these rims, but would like to see the procedure for building them first.


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## agentsmith (Jan 27, 2010)

Carl Mega said:


> Is that about the normal delivery time to the states? 1 month wait might be a deal breaker. They look good tho!


I would contact them and ask- their communications are good and I think they will provide an accurate time frame. It is dependent on demand which may be waning a bit since summer is here. I probably ordered at the worst time of year.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

dimitrin said:


> Peter you had offered to post a video that demonstrates the spoke installation procedure for this rim. I am interested in these rims, but would like to see the procedure for building them first.


I have read several different methods of getting the nipple to the spoke hole including dental floss and magnets. It would be time consuming and frustrating to do the initial build but in the long run no time spent taping etc. and perhaps make for a stronger rim. I would be interested also to see how the pros do it.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Snipe said:


> I have read several different methods of getting the nipple to the spoke hole including dental floss and magnets. It would be time consuming and frustrating to do the initial build but in the long run no time spent taping etc. and perhaps make for a stronger rim. I would be interested also to see how the pros do it.


Wow, that sounds like a total PITA!


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

abelfonseca said:


> Wow, that sounds like a total PITA!


it is a pita, imagine that you have to drop the nipple down the valve hole and get it to the appropriate spoke hole and then get it oriented into the spoke hole. Once you have it protruding from the spoke hole then its pretty easy. but if a pro had a slick way to maneuver the nipples through the rim then I would much prefer a rim without the access holes.


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## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

On Campagnolo road wheels, they supply a magnet that you use to manoeuvre the nipple once it is inside the rim cavity.

This obviously means that you can't use alloy nipples, since they aren't magnetic.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

xcbarny said:


> On Campagnolo road wheels, they supply a magnet that you use to manoeuvre the nipple once it is inside the rim cavity.
> 
> This obviously means that you can't use alloy nipples, since they aren't magnetic.


but you could thread a small piece of spoke into the nipple or ?? be creative.


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## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

Great idea. That should actually help lead the nipple into the hole the correct orientation too.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Peter replied via email and again said he will have a video demonstrating the process. The short bit of spoke in the nipple and a magnet sounds like it could be doable without too much hassle.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Man...I'm not sure what theoretical advantage is top this design other than very arguably strength. It takes me all of 1 minute to lay down a layer of 3m strapping tape.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

wildh said:


> Man...I'm not sure what theoretical advantage is top this design other than very arguably strength. It takes me all of 1 minute to lay down a layer of 3m strapping tape.


Not having to use the tape. You save a tiny bit of weight. Little easier tubeless setup.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Just got these the other day, about 3 weeks from the day I ordered them. Light Bicycle RM26C03

$403 total shipped to my front door. They weight 380g, advertised at 375g (+-15g). I went with the 12K finish. Will be building them up with DT 350 Straight Pull Hubs and probably DT Competition Race spokes as soon as the straight pull version is available, unless I get tired of waiting. I thought the spokes were already available but I've been told not for about another month or so (new product by DT Swiss).


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## Markiel (Mar 26, 2015)

I ended up going with some straight pull Sapim D-Light spokes - basically Sapim's version of Competition Race spokes.

Those spokes were tough to find. I contacted Sapim through their website, and they put me in touch with a distributor who had them in stock. 

Just got the spokes yesterday, and will drop them with my builder tomorrow, so can't say how they built up. Also, spoke length calcs with the DT Straight pull hubs were all over the place, so I ordered the longest predicted and my builder will cut and thread as needed.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Markiel said:


> I ended up going with some straight pull Sapim D-Light spokes - basically Sapim's version of Competition Race spokes.


The D-Light is not comparable in dimension to any DT Swiss spoke.
It's closest relative is the Wheelsmith DB14


Markiel said:


> Also, spoke length calcs with the DT Straight pull hubs were all over the place, so I ordered the longest predicted and my builder will cut and thread as needed.


The DT Swiss calc for hub dimensions and an accurate (measured) ERD is all you need. Hopefully your spokes aren't just 2-3mm off, in which case rethreading can be difficult and weaken the spokes.


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

what is the consensus on spokes (w/LB) when the options are DT competition and Pillar Aero PSR X-TRA 1420? Round vs. bladed? It will be a 32 hole wheel w/Novatec 881/882's. 160# pilot. I hear the Pillar's are hard to source if you need some spares.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

sfo423 said:


> what is the consensus on spokes (w/LB) when the options are DT competition and Pillar Aero PSR X-TRA 1420? Round vs. bladed? It will be a 32 hole wheel w/Novatec 881/882's. 160# pilot. I hear the Pillar's are hard to source if you need some spares.


I like to use Sapim Lasers with brass nipples from Dan's Comp at .95 ea black with silver.


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## Markiel (Mar 26, 2015)

D-Lights and Comp Races are both listed at 307/308 gms for 64 spokes so they seem pretty comparable. Mine were about 5.3 gms for 274s, which I got long so my wheel builder can cut to length. I'm hopeful it will work out well.

Those are for 650b wheels - FYI


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

wildh said:


> Man...I'm not sure what theoretical advantage is top this design other than very arguably strength. It takes me all of 1 minute to lay down a layer of 3m strapping tape.


I'm wondering the same thing. I'm not sure having to deal with tape during spoke replacement is more or less a pita than routing the nipple with a magnet, you still have to break the tire from the rim to swap the spoke.
I do have a set of I9s laced to Mavic UST rims and a set of Havens UST, both have solid rim beds. They both use straight pull hubs and the nipples thread into the rim with the spoke attached, no need to break the tire off the rim to replace spokes. These do not have that benefit.
Peter emailed me the videos demonstrating the procedure, it does use a magnet.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)




----------



## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)




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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

dimitrin said:


> I'm wondering the same thing. I'm not sure having to deal with tape during spoke replacement is more or less a pita than routing the nipple with a magnet, you still have to break the tire from the rim to swap the spoke.
> I do have a set of I9s laced to Mavic UST rims and a set of Havens UST, both have solid rim beds. They both use straight pull hubs and the nipples thread into the rim with the spoke attached, no need to break the tire off the rim to replace spokes. These do not have that benefit.
> Peter emailed me the videos demonstrating the procedure, it does use a magnet.


the only time you would need to remove the tire would be if the nipple with the piece of broken spoke disappeared into the rim. If the nipple were still visible and you could get a hold on it then you could unthread the broken part and install a new spoke.

It looks to me that the initial lacing of the wheel in the video is pretty quick. I can't do it that fast even with access holes to the nipple. So considering I rarely break a spoke and that I spend considerable time removing old tape, tape residue and installing new tape I would go for the solid rim beds with no holes. In the long run I save a little time and fuss and perhaps I get a stronger rim.


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

Has anyone found a 30mm carbon rim (other than the LB 29C19) with more than 2MM of width on the lip?


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

sfo423 said:


> Has anyone found a 30mm carbon rim (other than the LB 29C19) with more than 2MM of width on the lip?


Are you talking 30mm Inner Width, or 30mm Outer Width? These days it pays to confirm these tings! I agree that the bump up to 3mm sidewalls seems like a smart move given that rock strikes seem to be the main cause of failure here (along with spokes pulling through the holes on older models). Combining whatever you desired width may be with 3mm sidewalls with the reinforced spoke holes shown on the new model a few pages back, plus an offset spoke bed for improved wheel symmetry seems like the best of all worlds to me!


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

I think 30mm inner is getting heavy for XC, so I was looking inner. I'd like more than 2mm on the sidewall for the reasons you mentioned.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

sfo423 said:


> I think 30mm inner is getting heavy for XC, so I was looking inner. I'd like more than 2mm on the sidewall for the reasons you mentioned.


I disagree.
You get the sidewall support you need to run lower pressure for more traction and best of all that sidewall support keeps you from washing out in curves you have to slow way down for with a skinny rim. A slight weight penalty for much faster lap times. Weight isn't always the only criteria.


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

Anyone try these:29er Offset Tubeless Rims DT Swiss 350S Hubs MTB Carbon Wheels ACE-DTM933S for $869.00

Assym, thick sidewall, good hubs & spokes, price. Seems like w/quoted weight (~1509) they would be rated more for XC / AM than the quoted enduro & freeride.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

sfo423 said:


> Anyone try these:29er Offset Tubeless Rims DT Swiss 350S Hubs MTB Carbon Wheels ACE-DTM933S for $869.00
> 
> Assym, thick sidewall, good hubs & spokes, price. Seems like w/quoted weight (~1509) they would be rated more for XC / AM than the quoted enduro & freeride.


Those look intriging. Having said that, this company does seem a little confused about what exactly they are selling. It is like they just mashed up promo materials from a ton of different rims. They keep mentioning the titanium wire reinforcement that I have only seen used in hooked, not hookless, rims. The even picture it, but it is in a road rim used as an example. They also mention a "Double Triangle Design" but again, the MTB rim in question doesn't seem to feature it, but you can clearly see it in the road example. Then the show a cutaway MTB rim which has a subtle curvature that looks kind of like a small bead hook, but then their cross sectional drawing shows straight sidewalls.

The only cross sectional view I saw was tiny and low res, so it was tough to read, but it looks like it matches the specs listed further down the page, so they may actually be the 3.5mm walls they claim (26inner/33outer), which would be some of the thickest out there. The overall dimensions and offset bed are very similar to Nox Teocalli (Teocalli 29 Carbon Fiber Mountain Wheels | Nox Composites) rims, these being just a hair deeper and with .5mm additional sidewall than the Teocalli.

Listed eight does seem suspiciously low. The Nox rims I mentioned have thinner sidewalls, less depth, and built with lighter hubs (240s) still manage to weigh 50g more.

Someone please try them out for us and report back!


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

sfo423 said:


> Anyone try these:29er Offset Tubeless Rims DT Swiss 350S Hubs MTB Carbon Wheels ACE-DTM933S for $869.00
> 
> Assym, thick sidewall, good hubs & spokes, price. Seems like w/quoted weight (~1509) they would be rated more for XC / AM than the quoted enduro & freeride.


I don't think the weight is 1509g, they quoted 1509 *±5% * , the weight may go up to 1585g/pair. Am I right ?


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

Agreed. Lost in translation on the marketing.



TheKaiser said:


> Those look intriging. Having said that, this company does seem a little confused about what exactly they are selling. It is like they just mashed up promo materials from a ton of different rims.


The 3.5 walls were the major (along with ~weight) draw for me. Seem like a great spec, but hoping to hear from someone that actually knows / rode the product.



TheKaiser said:


> The only cross sectional view I saw was tiny and low res, so it was tough to read, but it looks like it matches the specs listed further down the page, so they may actually be the 3.5mm walls they claim (26inner/33outer), which would be some of the thickest out there. The overall dimensions and offset bed are very similar to Nox Teocalli (Teocalli 29 Carbon Fiber Mountain Wheels | Nox Composites) rims, these being just a hair deeper and with .5mm additional sidewall than the Teocalli.


Even if they are <1600, its a nice spec for the price.



Bikrider said:


> I don't think the weight is 1509g, they quoted 1509 *±5% * , the weight may go up to 1585g/pair. Am I right ?


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm following up here to give reference for others.

Ordered Nextie 27.5 35mm (outside dimension) Hookless. Several friends had used them previously.
Placed order on June 1 and received confirmation email that day. Likely automated.
Waited until June 12, and after zero communication I emailed three separate addresses at Nextie for an update.
Received a reply the next day on June 13, and a different reply on June 15. Both replies said that the rims would ship out on June 17th.
No more communication until June 26 when I received a tracking number and the suggestion that the rims had shipped. 
I emailed back for clarification and and explanation for the delay. Zero response.
Rims arrived today. Exactly 30 days and poor but not horrible communication.
Would probably go with a different company next time due to the consistently slow shipping and poor communication from Nextie. The rims looks great, will build them up ASAP!!!


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

jm2e said:


> I'm following up here to give reference for others.
> 
> Ordered Nextie 27.5 35mm (outside dimension) Hookless. Several friends had used them previously.
> Placed order on June 1 and received confirmation email that day. Likely automated.
> ...


I would say 30 days not an uncommon length of time judging from other posters. Mine took that long coming from LB and I got similar responses from emails. But they came and they looked great. I have bought lots of stuff direct from China and some comes in a couple weeks and others up to 6 weeks into Canada. I don't know if we have slower customs or whether it may be random screening of parcels. So I wouldn't give up on Nextie or LB based on 30 day time frame. Agreed its frustrating but patience when dealing with China is needed. Its also summer bike season and maybe they are super busy.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

sfo423 said:


> Agreed. Lost in translation on the marketing.
> 
> The 3.5 walls were the major (along with ~weight) draw for me. Seem like a great spec, but hoping to hear from someone that actually knows / rode the product.
> 
> Even if they are <1600, its a nice spec for the price.


The ad page is a little confusing. I would just ignore the layup and structure example using the road rim. the price is now on sale at 769. With the specs as they are I couldn't buy the parts and build them for that. The cxrays are expensive. Add in the asymmetric and the thicker wall it looks like a decent rim. The weight seems low but the hole count is 28 instead of 32 and the spokes/alloy nips are quite light.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

sfo423 said:


> Anyone try these:29er Offset Tubeless Rims DT Swiss 350S Hubs MTB Carbon Wheels ACE-DTM933S for $869.00
> 
> Assym, thick sidewall, good hubs & spokes, price. Seems like w/quoted weight (~1509) they would be rated more for XC / AM than the quoted enduro & freeride.


Looks like a pretty decent deal.

However, I thought that the not-so-subtle rip-off of DT Swiss graphics was rather amusing.


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

Snipe said:


> The weight seems low but the hole count is 28 instead of 32 and the spokes/alloy nips are quite light.


I've noticed weights on several complete wheels don't add up. Was looking at the Carbonality MX930. Weight on the website as 460 +/-15 each.

Carbon MTB 29er Rim - MX930 | Buy Online | Carbonality.com

Build sheet quotes 1500. No way. Does not add up even if you round down spokes and nipples to 300g.


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

jm2e said:


> I'm following up here to give reference for others.
> 
> Ordered Nextie 27.5 35mm (outside dimension) Hookless. Several friends had used them previously.
> Placed order on June 1 and received confirmation email that day. Likely automated.
> ...


I would agree with you. We might accept 30 days of time, but we need better communication even Nextie or LB thinks their rims are better or what. I would say same as others, dealing with Peter at Carbon Speed is great, best communication and we get best service. My wheels which I bought from Peter when he was at Iplay still work fine now. We know even LB and Nextie rims break somtimes.


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

sfo423 said:


> I've noticed weights on several complete wheels don't add up. Was looking at the Carbonality MX930. Weight on the website as 460 +/-15 each.
> 
> Carbon MTB 29er Rim - MX930 | Buy Online | Carbonality.com
> 
> ...


You may try to get quotes from Peter for same combo wheels. I guess 50 USD, even 100 USD less for each pair 

More options for our hubs - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Update on the Carbon wheels with 240s from Peter at Carbon Speed. Again great customer service. The wheels held up great for all 7 days of BC Bike Race with no flats. And there's some gnarly trails there. My only beef is one of the valve stem holes is slightly crooked, but hasn't affected them at all.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

bhsavery said:


> Update on the Carbon wheels with 240s from Peter at Carbon Speed. Again great customer service. The wheels held up great for all 7 days of BC Bike Race with no flats. And there's some gnarly trails there. My only beef is one of the valve stem holes is slightly crooked, but hasn't affected them at all.


Take a picture of the crooked valve stem and see what Peter is willing to do about it. It will only help him ensure quality control and provide a better product in the long term.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

dimitrin said:


> Take a picture of the crooked valve stem and see what Peter is willing to do about it. It will only help him ensure quality control and provide a better product in the long term.


Already did. It's not affecting anything but he assured me they'd take care of it in the future.


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Here are some pictures for our DSS HR940C wheels, and FHR930C 29er rims, HR740C 27.5er rims and HR940C 29er rims without holes in rim bed

Email: [email protected]


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Ordered a new pair on April 10th to go alonside another pair of my original Light Bicycle AM hoops that I have abused for several years on my Niner RIP. The new 38mm wide hoops arrived this week (7 weeks from time of order to shipment arrival).
> 
> Excellent email correspondence throughout the process that was all initiated by LB to make sure the order was correct.
> 
> ...


Wheels are built. 1700g for the set = 790g for the front wheel; 910g for the rear (weights include tape and valves). Not bad at all considering the narrower Light Bicycle AM rims I have with AM Classic disc hubs, combined with the Bontrager Rhythm strips and valves weigh just a bit less.

Wheels built by the wheel whisperer master himself: Mr. Mike Curiak of LaceMine29.com. DT Swiss 350 hubs because I need the option of easily swapping the front between 135mm QR and 15mm TA without tools. Spokes are some sort of DT Swiss dental floss that Mike said would be perfect for my needs.



__
https://flic.kr/p/vxMpj6
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



__
https://flic.kr/p/uTfQSf
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



__
https://flic.kr/p/vxEh61
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

I am looking forward to mounting up some rubber and giving these wheels a good thrashing!


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah those graphics look great.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

I just built up a front wheel with LB rim 26", 33mm outer width, 27mm inner width (rear will be next). I noticed that blue tape doesn't cover much more than the holes on your rims. What width is it? I already had 21mm Stans tubeless tape and I called them to ask their thoughts. They said ideally the tape would go from "wall to wall" because you don't want tape seems in the rim bed. They suggested I use something wider, and even suggested I could use a wide roll of Gorilla tape so I could get the tape wall to wall. All they would say about the 21mm tape is "you can try it and see if it works". My concern is that I switch tires out somewhat regularly depending on where I go ride so even if it initially works with pulling tires on and off eventually the edge of the tape could lift up and get sealant underneath. Are you going tubeless? Have you inflated yours yet? If so, any problems?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

They just were unboxed this AM. Yes, I only run tubeless.

_Mikesee_ put the blue tape on and these are wide rims at 31.6 mm inner/38mm outer widths. I don't know what width the tape is, but if I have any problem airing up I'll post it. I've got rolls of the NoTubes tape if I have any issue. Tape is on really tight.

Even with tape that is "wall to wall", the yellow NoTubes tape rarely lasts for me beyond a tire change or two - or at least that's what it seems like over the years.

Regardless - I have options if the blue tape fails. The main goal of the tape is to seal the spoke holes.

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...im-strip-width-relative-rim-width-849528.html


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

I asked the Stans people about multiple strips of tape to cover the rim bed wall to wall. They said not a good solution because you don't want seams. He even said the ends of the tape should go up the sidewalls a little. Not necessarily my thoughts, but just letting you know what they suggested. I did not realize it but there is a new Gorilla tape that is clear and lighter than the black tape but just as sticky. It feels like it's somewhere in between packing tape and the stans yellow in thickness. Anyway, i went ahead and put it on my rim and it stuck very well and I gave it an initial try without any sealant and it is holding air without any leaks so far (over a 3 hour period). It was also only 8 bucks for 1.8" x 27 feet so about 1/2 price of the Stans 27mm width.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

pb123hou said:


> I asked the Stans people about multiple strips of tape to cover the rim bed wall to wall. They said not a good solution because you don't want seams. He even said the ends of the tape should go up the sidewalls a little. Not necessarily my thoughts, but just letting you know what they suggested. I did not realize it but there is a new Gorilla tape that is clear and lighter than the black tape but just as sticky. It feels like it's somewhere in between packing tape and the stans yellow in thickness. Anyway, i went ahead and put it on my rim and it stuck very well and I gave it an initial try without any sealant and it is holding air without any leaks so far (over a 3 hour period). It was also only 8 bucks for 1.8" x 27 feet so about 1/2 price of the Stans 27mm width.


I would be interested to hear what its like to remove and how much residue is left behind. I used the regular GT on my carbon rims and it was so sticky it actually pulled a few carbon fibers off and it left a lot of residue which was a pain to clean off.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

The trick with all sticky stuff is to heat it up. It softens the glue and it comes out easy. Having said that, those carbon rims probably didn't have good finish.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

CrozCountry said:


> The trick with all sticky stuff is to heat it up. It softens the glue and it comes out easy. Having said that, those carbon rims probably didn't have good finish.


new LB rims and they looked well finished. but they must have had a few loose fibres. So if you heat up the regular or the clear GT with a hair dryer you get no residue left behind?


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Snipe said:


> new LB rims and they looked well finished. but they must have had a few loose fibres. So if you heat up the regular or the clear GT with a hair dryer you get no residue left behind?


You get some residue, but not much. It also depends how old the sticker is, the older it is, the more residue it will leave. It is important to soften the glue to reduce the chance of damaging what it sticks to, a strong glue can pull out coatings and paints.

An easy way to get rid of the residue is to take sticky tape and pick it up. Especially when it is hot.

Well finished and loose fibers don't mix


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Doubt there's any difference. I got LB for my fatbike and they have been terrific all winter. Got nexties waiting at the post office for me today. Lead time and ordering were about the same. One benefit with nextie is you can have them paint them in colors for no additional charge. With LB it was something like 50 or 60 more. Will be checking on quality of course later today.


Never showed these off. They've been great. Built up with DT competition spokes. I wanted a pretty stiff wheelset, so I didn't want to go supercomp or revolution. With a 29er, I feel that every bit of stiffness is necessary to overcome the wheel being significantly larger than 26. Because I special ordered blue alloy nipples for my fat-build, I had a bag of silver alloy nipples just sitting here, so SCORE!, that was nice. Rear hub is a Pro II Evo and front is a Shimano 15mm XT. Stans strip (25mm?). These built up really nice and I really like them. Taken them DHing even with my 2.5 minions on them, and of course just riding everywhere else as much as I possibly can.

I'll tell you what too, building carbon wheels is a cinch compared to "normal" aluminum. It's much easier to get a nice super-true wheel with no hop and even high spoke tension. Some aluminum wheels are like trying to true a noodle, where a slight adjustment on one side throws everything off on the other. Definitely a nice smooth wheelbuilding process with carbon.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Snipe said:


> I would be interested to hear what its like to remove and how much residue is left behind. I used the regular GT on my carbon rims and it was so sticky it actually pulled a few carbon fibers off and it left a lot of residue which was a pain to clean off.


Hopefully I'll never know, because I don't plan to remove the tape. I had alloy rims that I used to change tires on pretty frequently (and constantly adding new sealant) for riding different types of terrain. I had the rims for about a year 1/2 until I sold the bike. I had a strip of Stans yellow tape from wall to wall and sealant did get underneath the edges in a few places but the only place that I really had a problem is at the end of the tape where it overlapped the tape that was underneath. it seemed to stick to the rim just fine but it didn't stick very well to the top of the tape where it overlapped. I ended up putting a small piece of gorilla tape on it to hold it down and that worked fine. The sealant actually seemed to make a seal in the few spots where the sealant got underneath the tape.


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## AZMB'er (Oct 19, 2013)

Hey Jayem! Is that "Process Blue" off the Nextie color pallet ? Trying to match the blue on my Bucksaw.


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## tmilam (Oct 13, 2010)

I have the XMCarbon 40mm outside diameter 29er rims in transit. Do I need to get extended tubeless valve stems? If so, where do you get them? Also, what's the best tubeless rim tape to use--Gorilla tape, Stan's, etc?


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

AZMB'er said:


> Hey Jayem! Is that "Process Blue" off the Nextie color pallet ? Trying to match the blue on my Bucksaw.


So you can actually get the Nextie rims in colors? Where's Jayem when you need him?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

tmilam said:


> I have the XMCarbon 40mm outside diameter 29er rims in transit. Do I need to get extended tubeless valve stems? If so, where do you get them? Also, what's the best tubeless rim tape to use--Gorilla tape, Stan's, etc?


items in store on eBay!


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## AZMB'er (Oct 19, 2013)

rockman said:


> So you can actually get the Nextie rims in colors? Where's Jayem when you need him?


They offer about a half dozen colors I think. Here are some pics:
Photos Gallery

Guess Jayem is out ridin his new hoops!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

AZMB'er said:


> They offer about a half dozen colors I think. Here are some pics:
> Photos Gallery
> 
> Guess Jayem is out ridin his new hoops!


No, Oklahoma for work.

Yes, the Nexties can be painted for no additional charge, unlike the Light Bicycle ones. I don't know what color it is off the palette, but it matched the highlights on my Specialized E29 comp exactly.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Jayem said:


> No, Oklahoma for work.
> 
> Yes, the Nexties can be painted for no additional charge, unlike the Light Bicycle ones. I don't know what color it is off the palette, but it matched the highlights on my Specialized E29 comp exactly.


I don't see that option on the Nextie website. Man, OK sounds like a demotion. Come back to Flag for some Wasabi:thumbsup:


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## tmilam (Oct 13, 2010)

That's what I'm talkin about DeeZee. Thank you very much


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## Dr Wankel (Oct 2, 2007)

Does anyone have a reliable contact from CarbonBicycle.cc? I'm interested in their 36/30.8 29er rim profile but would like it in the XC weight and their website isn't exactly clear if this combo is actually available or not. I've sent them an inquiry a few days ago to the email address listed on their website but have had no response as of yet.


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

Perfect thread. I'm looking for wheels for my fat bike 80mm! I think I shall contact Peter now.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rockman said:


> I don't see that option on the Nextie website. Man, OK sounds like a demotion. Come back to Flag for some Wasabi:thumbsup:


Just write it in the comments with the order. I did.

I want to come back maybe for some fall/winter Sedona or National.


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

H


Jayem said:


> Never showed these off. They've been great. Built up with DT competition spokes. I wanted a pretty stiff wheelset, so I didn't want to go supercomp or revolution. With a 29er, I feel that every bit of stiffness is necessary to overcome the wheel being significantly larger than 26. Because I special ordered blue alloy nipples for my fat-build, I had a bag of silver alloy nipples just sitting here, so SCORE!, that was nice. Rear hub is a Pro II Evo and front is a Shimano 15mm XT. Stans strip (25mm?). These built up really nice and I really like them. Taken them DHing even with my 2.5 minions on them, and of course just riding everywhere else as much as I possibly can.
> 
> I'll tell you what too, building carbon wheels is a cinch compared to "normal" aluminum. It's much easier to get a nice super-true wheel with no hop and even high spoke tension. Some aluminum wheels are like trying to true a noodle, where a slight adjustment on one side throws everything off on the other. Definitely a nice smooth wheelbuilding process with carbon.
> View attachment 1001458
> ...


Nice looking Jay, are those 40mm wide?


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## Danish Dynamite (Sep 15, 2005)

Anyone have experience with the new rim from Light Bicycles with 32mm inner width. I am considering these and will be running 2.25 or 2.35 Nobby Nic and Maxxis Ikon. Are the new rims to be preferred instead of the 30mm inner width rim?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

vice grips said:


> H
> 
> Nice looking Jay, are those 40mm wide?


30, I didn't want any problems fitting my 2.5 minions, which worked out good, although the roval rims I also have are supposed to be "30" and these are noticably wider. Also wanted them light for long rides.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Danish Dynamite said:


> Anyone have experience with the new rim from Light Bicycles with 32mm inner width. I am considering these and will be running 2.25 or 2.35 Nobby Nic and Maxxis Ikon. Are the new rims to be preferred instead of the 30mm inner width rim?


I just got a pair of the 35mm exterior/30mm interior rims. The 38mm exterior/31.6mm interior rim looked too beefy for my needs. I fear on either rim - be it 30mm interior or 31.6mm width interior - a 2.25 tire would get so "squared out" that you would lose too much of the cornering side lugs for the best traction while cornering. However, the 2.35 size and larger would be an ideal place to start - IMO.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Danish Dynamite said:


> Anyone have experience with the new rim from Light Bicycles with 32mm inner width. I am considering these and will be running 2.25 or 2.35 Nobby Nic and Maxxis Ikon. Are the new rims to be preferred instead of the 30mm inner width rim? ]
> 
> 
> BruceBrown said:
> ...


Just thought I would chime in... I was running Roval Traverse Sl's which are Specialized's carbon rim wheels on my Enduro Carbon (26") for abut a year. Specialized has now discontinued these rims for the "Fattie" versions. My "old" Sl's are "clincher"; 22mm, or 21mm internal (depending on who you ask) - anyway, there are right in that ball park. I've run a variety of tires on them, including 2.5 Maxxis Minions which I used at Angelfire, Keystone, and Winter Park, riding fast and aggressive. I've also run 2.3 width tires in the West Texas mountains and canyons where it is very rocky and rough, and also on some very rocky trails in Arizona. I've never had any problems whatsoever with the any of the tires on these rims which are now considered pretty narrow as far as inside diameter. With the specs on the Roval Traverse Sl rims that I have (non fattie), they are basically considered a cross country rim compared to what is being used now.

I recently received and built up some 26" light bicycle rims that are 27mm internal width. Since I was using a variety of tires ranging from 2.2 to 2.5 on the Roval Sl's 22mm, I know these LB rims are neither too narrow or too wide for the range of tires sizes I intend to use with them. I could have gone with something wider (and heavier) but since I do a lot of pedaling as well as downhill on this bike I went with something that will do fine but also give me some weight savings. The new wheels are 640g in the front, 780g in the back. They are actually 40g lighter in the front and 20g lighter in the back than the Roval Sl's (mostly due to the hubs/spokes I used though). I'm currently running a 2.4 front and 2.2 rear on the new wheels and they are doing great. In a few weeks I'll be taking them to New Mexico and Colorado and use the same configuration for All mountain riding, and switch to 2.5's for the downhill bike parks.

P.S. Before you know it, the bicycle industry will try to have us thinking we can't run any rim that is less than 50mm internal just so they can keep selling new rims/wheels every year.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

*Chinese LB rims (26) 12K Weave*

Here is what the 12K weave looks like:


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

32mm inner width asymmetric 
[Wild Cat] [Asymmetric] Carbon Fiber 29" MTB Rim 38mm width Clincher Hookless Tubeless Compatible [NXT29WC]


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

who ships the fastest? The rims I want (35mm wide, 30mm internal, 29er) are available at a wide variety of outlets. I'd like to get my bike built up relatively quick when I start the purchase process, so over a month is kind of a bummer. Is peter the fastest?


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

sandwich said:


> who ships the fastest? The rims I want (35mm wide, 30mm internal, 29er) are available at a wide variety of outlets. I'd like to get my bike built up relatively quick when I start the purchase process, so over a month is kind of a bummer. Is peter the fastest?


I paid for my rims to Light Bicycle on 5/23/2015 on Paypal and received them on my door step on 6/16/2015.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Mounted up the Racing Ralph 2.35's on my new Light Bicycle rims today. No issues mounting them up as it was a piece of cake.

Even without any time for stretching and growing, they measured out at 60.37 and 60.40mm wide right out of the box (2.37"). Sweet! Profile looks good as well...



__
https://flic.kr/p/vE2GnW
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



__
https://flic.kr/p/wyJgSw
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

Just took delivery of these LB rims (RM29C19) today. They look good. Building up w/BHS hubs, DT comp race and alum nips.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

As expected, RR tires grew overnight to 61.4mm on these rims. 2.41" - not bad for a 2.35 tire, but I would imagine a bit more growth going forward once I ride them. I may have to drop down to a 2.25 RR in the rear to have ample clearance on one of my bikes...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

IIRC, the 2.4s were bigger upon initial inflation than the 2.35s. 

The 2.35 tread pattern is much better, though.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

BruceBrown said:


> Mounted up the Racing Ralph 2.35's on my new Light Bicycle rims today. No issues mounting them up as it was a piece of cake.
> 
> Even without any time for stretching and growing, they measured out at 60.37 and 60.40mm wide right out of the box (2.37"). Sweet! Profile looks good as well...


Nice!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Nice!




__
https://flic.kr/p/wDB7E3
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Too bad we've had 8" of rain in the past two days. Trails are soup, so I'll have to wait to try them out.:madman:


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## birdrider (Jan 13, 2015)

What tire combinations are people running with their wide rims? I've got a set of Light Bicycle 30mm internal being built right now. I've heard good things about a Specialized purgatory rear and slaughter front combination. They run pretty light too. Anyone else have any recommendations. Preferably not too heavy but also not XC.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Butcher front, slaughter rear, 30mm ID xiamen rims...soon at least.


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

I've been running two sets of LB30S for about 2 years. Running the Purgatory and slaughter combo on my E29 with gray success in San Antonio texas' rocks over hard pack. Never found them lacking in any regard other than perhaps weight. 

Running the Ardent 2.4 and Ikon 2.35 on my rigid carbon. The meet my expectations but the limitations of the side knob on both those tires should be self-evident

Looking for that next combo though. Maybe high roller 2 and Ardent race


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Just relaced my rear 24mm internal carbon bicycle 29er rim to a koozer hub using sapim lasers and brass nipples. 810 grams for the rear wheel before putting gorilla tape.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Just an FYI, I ordered a set of 30mm ID rims from Peter at XM Carbon speed and received them on the east coast of the US 6 days post payment (including a weekend). Incredible fast service...

No ride/build time yet, will report back, just impressed with the quickness of service.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

sandwich said:


> Just an FYI, I ordered a set of 30mm ID rims from Peter at XM Carbon speed and received them on the east coast of the US 6 days post payment (including a weekend). Incredible fast service...
> 
> No ride/build time yet, will report back, just impressed with the quickness of service.


What was the total cost?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

364 all in. Cheaper than LB and nextie and anybody else I could find. The rims are visually beautiful/flawless, but I won't know anything until I build and ride them.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

$364 total for both rims? Shipping and everything?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

yes, 30i/35e. Cheaper than I found anywhere else.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Any pics?


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

web site?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

I have one on my phone, I'll have to upload it in a bit. They're just 3k wrapped rims, nothing really crazy about them, but there didn't appear to be any flashing in any of the spoke holes or valve hole, so that's pretty cool.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

https://i.imgur.com/aKL6FKr.jpg


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

I would take every thing in that picture


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

sandwich said:


> Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
> 
> I have one on my phone, I'll have to upload it in a bit. They're just 3k wrapped rims, nothing really crazy about them, but there didn't appear to be any flashing in any of the spoke holes or valve hole, so that's pretty cool.


How does this website work? There are no prices or options anywhere. Do you have to email them?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

sandwich said:


> 364 all in. Cheaper than LB and nextie and anybody else I could find. The rims are visually beautiful/flawless, but I won't know anything until I build and ride them.


Carbonbicycle is $340 shipped for those rims. No probs for over a year.
Hookless 29er DH&AM&XC carbon rim tubeless compatible, 36.00/35.00/30.00mm&27.00mm(XC) wide - carbon rim (hookless) - CarbonFan, Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mountain Bike, Carbon Road Bike, Carbo
Their new rim in this size is an asymmetrical 35/29 400g rim for $428 shipped/pr.







Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM hookless rim 35mm wide - carbon rim (Asmymetric) - CarbonFan, Carbon Bicycle, Carbon Frame, Carbon Rims, Carbon Wheels, Carbon Wheelsets, Carbon Mountain Bike, Carbon Road Bike, Carbon Handlebar


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

CrozCountry said:


> How does this website work? There are no prices or options anywhere. Do you have to email them?


Yeah, the guy's name is Peter, I believe he was behind another company before starting his own. There's some drama on the internet somewhere. I just emailed him, asked him the price, and he gave me the quote.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

eb1888 said:


> Carbonbicycle is $340 shipped for those rims. No probs for over a year.


That says 368$ when I put it in my cart. I have no doubt that they're the same rims. I'm just thrilled at the speed of shipping and the communication I received. I'm still waiting on an email with the rim profile from Yoeleo, which was requested 2 weeks ago...


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes I see they have increased their shipping and added a PayPal fee to make these now more expensive than when I bought mine. I'd communicate and negotiate.

These sellers are in some cases getting the same product from a third party manufacturer and are nickel and diming us to death instead of competing on price.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

eh, they're charging what the market will bear. what's an ENVE rim go for, $1000? these are cheap, easy to source, and from most accounts, reliable. I wanted my rims sooner than later, and am quite happy with the service that I got. Light bicycle seemed to want 3-4 weeks, and were $50 more expensive.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

They are all selling the same non-Enve by any stretch of the imagination rim. Things are changing quickly so the 35/30 is a dated design already somewhat less desirable than the wider and/or asymmetrical options they have recently listed at higher prices. In other words the market for it is diminishing among the informed non first time or bargain buyers. It is ripe for discounting not for nickel and diming. It's perfect for expanding the Chinese carbon rim market toward the segment currently choosing aluminum rims with a $125 price point and $40/pr shipping with no phony fees. Are these guys smart enough to read the market? We'll see. 
Probably already on Alibaba for $99 if you could negotiate the poor web design and lack of specifics.

Why pay $365 for rims when you can get a finished wheelset using the same rims for $465+75 ship?
Hookless 35mm Wide 29" Carbon Mountain Wheels Tubeless Compatible Am DH | eBay


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Novatec, that's why.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Yeah the rear is not my first choice. If it breaks relace it with Sapim Lasers and a Dt 350(these are 28h wheels). One afternoon.
The front doesn't matter.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

423 and 433 g for my rims (i30 o35).


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

One difference I've noticed between Light Bicycle and "Peter's" rims is that the LB rims are 30mm to 32mm (or 33mm) depth on the cross section. I've noticed "Peter's" and other manufacturers are usually somewhere between 20mm and 25mm. LB says the rims with the larger depth are their latest design and much stronger than previous rims (with the lesser cross section depth).

The reason "Peter" can ship the tire so fast too Is because they are selling those from stock. Light Bicycle literally "custom" makes your rim based or what you order (spoke holes, finish, etc.). "Peter" could also be selling returned rims. I was going to order a rim for a 27 spoke hole hub, and they asked me to make sure I really do need a rim with 27 spoke holes because they will have a hard time reselling a rim with an unusual number of spoke holes if I return it. Not necessarily saying selling from existing stock is bad, but hopefully it isn't someone else's returned rim. Also, is "Peter" selling rims that are outdated? LB says the higher depth rims are the latest design and I've noticed some rims sold by US companies have this higher depth design whereas previous versions did not.

....Just some things to consider


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

So I am trying to catch up on this thread. Which of these companies offers assym rims? Looking for something in the 27-30mm internal and would think assym would be better. 

Also. Do you need assym for front wheel? Or rear wheel only?


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

pb123hou said:


> One difference I've noticed between Light Bicycle and "Peter's" rims is that the LB rims are 30mm to 32mm (or 33mm) depth on the cross section. I've noticed "Peter's" and other manufacturers are usually somewhere between 20mm and 25mm. LB says the rims with the larger depth are their latest design and much stronger than previous rims (with the lesser cross section depth).
> 
> The reason "Peter" can ship the tire so fast too Is because they are selling those from stock. Light Bicycle literally "custom" makes your rim based or what you order (spoke holes, finish, etc.). "Peter" could also be selling returned rims. I was going to order a rim for a 27 spoke hole hub, and they asked me to make sure I really do need a rim with 27 spoke holes because they will have a hard time reselling a rim with an unusual number of spoke holes if I return it. Not necessarily saying selling from existing stock is bad, but hopefully it isn't someone else's returned rim. Also, is "Peter" selling rims that are outdated? LB says the higher depth rims are the latest design and I've noticed some rims sold by US companies have this higher depth design whereas previous versions did not.
> 
> ....Just some things to consider


If that is what you guess, then you are absolutely wrong

1. We have never sold any returned rims to any customer. Even we almost don't require any customer to return rims to us. All warranty issues rims, we send replacement rims for sure.

2. Why LB says that larger depth rims are new design and stronger is to attract customers to order rims from them, they don't want customers to order rims from anywhere who has rims available in stock and who can offer better prices than LB. Usually our factory makes some rims with normal holes (28/32H) for stock to offer quick service. And If you need the rims for XC or AM, you don't have to order the rims with larger depth. People choose different depth rims for different use, different widths as well.

3. We makes larger depth rims as well, for those customer who really need them. Below are some rims for reference, And we are making some new more professional DH rims 26er/27.5er/29er
Larger depth rims:

We can drill any rims with depth higher than 27mm without spoke holes in rim bed. These rims will be easily mounted tubeless tires.

Some pictures for D-SS HR735C wheels for reference, built with DT 350s straight pull hubs, Sapim CX-Ray spokes and Sapim nipples


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Derek200 said:


> Which of these companies offers assym rims?


 Nextie does. 
I'm interested in hearing who other does too. 


> Also. Do you need assym for front wheel? Or rear wheel only?


You need both, front hub have off-center spacing due to the brake mount.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Thanks Savo. May consider this option.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

PeterXu said:


> If that is what you guess, then you are absolutely wrong
> 
> 1. We have never sold any returned rims to any customer. Even we almost don't require any customer to return rims to us. All warranty issues rims, we send replacement rims for sure.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply... that is a good thing about the internet and forums like this, so everyone can be informed before purchasing products.

Well I didn't say I guess, think or believe that...
Just saying for anyone purchasing carbon rims sight unseen it is something to consider and it's good to be completely informed about the product and the company's practices beforehand.

You sent me an email and it referenced a rim that has a shorter depth than what I saw with LB, and I also noticed the other 26er rims on your site that I could find were shorter depth - that's why I mentioned the shorter depth in my post. I did not check 27.5 29, or any other rims, since I was interested in 26 rims. By the way, do you expect to discontinue 26er rims at some point? If so, do you know when? I hope it's not soon since I still have 2 26 bikes that I use frequently.

I have wondered and would be interested in knowing if there are any differences between the manufacturing process between the various Chinese carbon rim companies. Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm guessing what they meant by "returned rim" was if you buy a 27 spoke rim, receive it and realize that you actually wanted a 28h rim, then it would be very difficult for you to return it and for them to move it. Just like a pair of jeans or a suspension fork that was ordered in the wrong size or travel only to be returned, the reseller has to move that product somehow. I highly doubt anybody is accepting broken rims then selling them to other people.

Personally I'm not sure of the value of a deeper cross section. It certainly makes the rim stiffer, but is that an asset with an already stiff material like carbon fiber? Wouldn't it be better to make it a little more flexible so that it absorbs and can handle the stress of a rock strike? I find it doubtful that it contributes much to lateral stiffness, but maybe I'm wrong. I'd think having all the mass in line would make for a stronger (laterally) rim.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

sandwich said:


> Personally I'm not sure of the value of a deeper cross section. It certainly makes the rim stiffer, but is that an asset with an already stiff material like carbon fiber? Wouldn't it be better to make it a little more flexible so that it absorbs and can handle the stress of a rock strike? I find it doubtful that it contributes much to lateral stiffness, but maybe I'm wrong. I'd think having all the mass in line would make for a stronger (laterally) rim.


As someone that owns 6 sets of carbon wheels, I can tell you that the deeper rims definitely are less comfortable than shallower rims.

IME, only exception to this "rule" is in the case of toroidal carbon rims, such as Zipps. A rim with a wider mid-point than the tire bed. It basically acts as a leaf spring of sorts.

In terms of lateral stiffness, a deeper rim may help out due to bracing angles and all that jazz. But, as someone who tips the scales at <145lbs, it's not something I'm really able to feel.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Derek200 said:


> Which of these companies offers assym rims? Looking for something in the 27-30mm internal and would think assym would be better.
> Also. Do you need assym for front wheel? Or rear wheel only?


CarbonBicycle lists asym rims with one 35/29.
Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM hookless rim 35mm wide - carbon rim (Asmymetric) - Carbonfan | Carbon Bicycle Wheelset | Carbon Rim | Carbon Frame | Carbon Bike Part
Unfortunately they are charging shipping based on rim price not weight.
They have also added a Paypal fee which shouldn't be there.

You can use an asym rim on the front too for a smaller benefit.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

sandwich said:


> I'm guessing what they meant by "returned rim" was if you buy a 27 spoke rim, receive it and realize that you actually wanted a 28h rim, then it would be very difficult for you to return it and for them to move it. Just like a pair of jeans or a suspension fork that was ordered in the wrong size or travel only to be returned, the reseller has to move that product somehow. I highly doubt anybody is accepting broken rims then selling them to other people.
> 
> Personally I'm not sure of the value of a deeper cross section. It certainly makes the rim stiffer, but is that an asset with an already stiff material like carbon fiber? Wouldn't it be better to make it a little more flexible so that it absorbs and can handle the stress of a rock strike? I find it doubtful that it contributes much to lateral stiffness, but maybe I'm wrong. I'd think having all the mass in line would make for a stronger (laterally) rim.


Yeah, maybe Peter thought I was suggesting they were reselling used rims. But I was just asked to make sure 27 hole is what I really needed because if I had to return it (unused), then it would be hard to resell a 27 hole rim. Either way, I would prefer the rims I'm purchasing not be shipped back and forth across the globe before I bought them. But of course that happens all the time with online purchases and you usually never know unless you can tell the packaging had been previously opened.

As far as the deeper cross section. All I know is that Light Bicycle says it is their newer design and they say it's stronger than the "old" design.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> As someone that owns 6 sets of carbon wheels, I can tell you that the deeper rims definitely are less comfortable than shallower rims.
> 
> IME, only exception to this "rule" is in the case of toroidal carbon rims, such as Zipps. A rim with a wider mid-point than the tire bed. It basically acts as a leaf spring of sorts.
> 
> In terms of lateral stiffness, a deeper rim may help out due to bracing angles and all that jazz. But, as someone who tips the scales at <145lbs, it's not something I'm really able to feel.


I would think that's true (wider/deeper = more stiff = less comfortable). I have a set of Roval Traverse Sl (the narrower style before fatty rims) that are around 20mm or a maybe a little more depth. I got a set of carbon rims that are several mm wider and also about 10mm deeper. I built them up and was very surprised to find out they are much more comfortable on the trails and noticeably not as harsh on the hits. But I also built them up with bladed DT Aerolites. The Rovals have DT Super Comp on them. 27 spokes on the front Roval, 28 spokes on the front new rim. 32 on the rear Roval, 28 on the rear new rim. Both front and rear rims are less harsh on the new rims. If it were just the rear, I guess I would think it's mostly because of the 4 fewer spokes. But since it's both, I guess it's because of the spokes themselves. And I guess it's the difference between bladed vs. round. (the tension is actually higher on the bladed spokes) Although I guess there could be a difference in the carbon or something between the rims even the wider/deeper ones seem to absorb more. At any rate, It was a nice surprise to have less harsher wheels.


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## Snipe (Mar 6, 2005)

pb123hou said:


> I would think that's true (wider/deeper = more stiff = less comfortable). I have a set of Roval Traverse Sl (the narrower style before fatty rims) that are around 20mm or a maybe a little more depth. I got a set of carbon rims that are several mm wider and also about 10mm deeper. I built them up and was very surprised to find out they are much more comfortable on the trails and noticeably not as harsh on the hits. But I also built them up with bladed DT Aerolites. The Rovals have DT Super Comp on them. 27 spokes on the front Roval, 28 spokes on the front new rim. 32 on the rear Roval, 28 on the rear new rim. Both front and rear rims are less harsh on the new rims. If it were just the rear, I guess I would think it's mostly because of the 4 fewer spokes. But since it's both, I guess it's because of the spokes themselves. And I guess it's the difference between bladed vs. round. (the tension is actually higher on the bladed spokes) Although I guess there could be a difference in the carbon or something between the rims even the wider/deeper ones seem to absorb more. At any rate, It was a nice surprise to have less harsher wheels.


Too many variables to know for sure...carbon layup, tires, tire pressure, spokes and spoke count for starters. Interesting that it seemed the objective was to build a stiffer wheel and now we have comments about too stiff. On a mountain bike I am not sure that I can feel the difference between my archex and my 35mm wide carbon 650b wheelset. What I can feel is the difference in a few pounds of air pressure. but the carbon rims look pretty cool.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Snipe said:


> Too many variables to know for sure...carbon layup, tires, tire pressure, spokes and spoke count for starters. Interesting that it seemed the objective was to build a stiffer wheel and now we have comments about too stiff. On a mountain bike I am not sure that I can feel the difference between my archex and my 35mm wide carbon 650b wheelset. What I can feel is the difference in a few pounds of air pressure. but the carbon rims look pretty cool.


The tires and pressure were initially the same after I built the new rims up. I intentionally made sure so I could see if there was any noticeable difference in the overall feel. But I wasn't expecting the new rims to feel more comfortable on the bumps, it was a nice suprise.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

If at the same tension, a bladed spoke and a round spoke of the same cross sectional area should "feel" exactly the same. 

I.e., a CX-Ray should feel the same as a Laser. An Aerolite should feel the same as a Revolution.


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

Why the hell would you want a 27H rim?


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> If at the same tension, a bladed spoke and a round spoke of the same cross sectional area should "feel" exactly the same.
> 
> I.e., a CX-Ray should feel the same as a Laser. An Aerolite should feel the same as a Revolution.


Well you know what they say about "should". But it's the difference between aerolites and super comps, so maybe that is the difference.

Is it possible that the tire having a little wider profile because of the wider rim makes any difference in harshness? I guess maybe that's something else to include in the internet debates.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> If at the same tension, a bladed spoke and a round spoke of the same cross sectional area should "feel" exactly the same.


Cold working metal may change its Young modulus, slightly.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

jm2e said:


> Why the hell would you want a 27H rim?


Just to confuse Peter at Xiamen Carbon Speed.

:lol:

Actually... it's to go on a 27 hole hub.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

why the hell do you have a 27 hole hub?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Axe said:


> Cold working metal may change its Young modulus, slightly.
> 
> View attachment 1007652


Agreed. But, probably not enough to be detectable via crude instruments like fingers, hands, or legs.

Although, I believe that they do some cold working on round spokes, too. So, what the flattening cold working does on top of an already cold worked spoke, well, that is beyond my knowledge.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

sandwich said:


> why the hell do you have a 27 hole hub?


You will have to ask Specialized err.. Roval about that. It came on a bike I bought from them (Enduro). I think they have the same design for other bikes too. It's actually quite an odd creature (the front wheel). On the non disc side it has 9 spokes in a radial pattern. On the disc side it has 18 spokes laced 3 crossed. But it works very well and I've put it through a beating and it's still going - In over a year it's never needed truing or anything . On the rear wheel it's your standard issue 32 spokes all in a 3 cross pattern.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

pb123hou said:


> Is it possible that the tire having a little wider profile because of the wider rim makes any difference in harshness? I guess maybe that's something else to include in the internet debates.


It's being debated for sure. My 30mm interior rim gives me more volume then my ArchEx. That means I can run 4-5psi less pressure before I get the same rim hits. But a much higher washout threshold from that and the sidewall support is the main benefit for me.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Continual spamming by chinese manufacturers will get those accounts banned and their IP's blocked. Play by the rules, buy an ad or sponsor a forum.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

pb123hou said:


> You will have to ask Specialized err.. Roval about that. It came on a bike I bought from them (Enduro). I think they have the same design for other bikes too. It's actually quite an odd creature (the front wheel). On the non disc side it has 9 spokes in a radial pattern. On the disc side it has 18 spokes laced 3 crossed. But it works very well and I've put it through a beating and it's still going - In over a year it's never needed truing or anything . On the rear wheel it's your standard issue 32 spokes all in a 3 cross pattern.


very interesting. I have never heard of an odd number of spokes before. maybe another way to get you to buy only their rims? specialized does some crazy stuff with their wheels...not sure I like the idea of 24 spokes on an enduro bike....but people seem to have success with them!


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

rockcrusher said:


> Continual spamming by chinese manufacturers will get those accounts banned and their IP's blocked. Play by the rules, buy an ad or sponsor a forum.


Give them a break. They stick to a very few well labeled threads and it is relevant there. Some information provided can not be conveyed in an ad, and sponsoring a whole forum seems like an over kill.

I pay for this with my eyeballs on all the ads on this site. Heck, I even clicked on a few of them.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Axe said:


> Give them a break. They stick to a very few well labeled threads and it is relevant there. Some information provided can not be conveyed in an ad, and sponsoring a whole forum seems like an over kill.
> 
> I pay for this with my eyeballs on all the ads on this site. Heck, I even clicked on a few of them.


Agree..........this has always been a Gray area on this site. Some long time posters advertise their business in the signature.

Back OT. I am going back and forth between 30mm and 34mm for my XC bike. I have the 38mm rims on my trail / endure bike and they have been fantastic. Any feedback? My gut says 34mm but is that overkill?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

DeeZee said:


> Back OT. I am going back and forth between 30mm and 34mm for my XC bike. I have the 38mm rims on my trail / endure bike and they have been fantastic. Any feedback? My gut says 34mm but is that overkill?


X2 on that. I'm looking to build up my first 29er and wondering what size rims to use. Running 35/29 rims on my 5010.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

BXCc said:


> X2 on that. I'm looking to build up my first 29er and wondering what size rims to use. Running 35/29 rims on my 5010.


My carbon hardtail climbs and corners faster with 29-30mm interior rims with 2.2 XR1 tires. No way would I buy a skinnier rim. A slight weight saving from a skinny rim doesn't makeup for the faster cornering from a wider one.


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## ALshooter (Apr 27, 2015)

Just received a pair of Nextie Asymmetric hoops. 32/38 to lace up to some BHS (Bitex) hubs. I 'll be dropping them off at the wheel builder today. I'll make better pictures after they are laced up. Hopefully the shop will have a scale I can use before they are built up and after.

These will be going on my Superfly fs.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

ALshooter said:


> Just received a pair of Nextie Asymmetric hoops. 32/38 to lace up to some BHS (Bitex) hubs. I 'll be dropping them off at the wheel builder today. I'll make better pictures after they are laced up. Hopefully the shop will have a scale I can use before they are built up and after.


Nice! Get us those weight and then ride reports! (Extra points for running super low pressures in sharp ledgy rock terrain to test impact strength):thumbsup:

Seriously though, IMHO, those rims look like the best ones going right now, and even more so now that I see your pics and they appear to have a distinct bead barb/bump to help tire retention.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

ALshooter said:


> Just received a pair of Nextie Asymmetric hoops. 32/38 to lace up to some BHS (Bitex) hubs. I 'll be dropping them off at the wheel builder today. I'll make better pictures after they are laced up. Hopefully the shop will have a scale I can use before they are built up and after.


Didja pick them up yet? Weights?


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## ALshooter (Apr 27, 2015)

TheKaiser said:


> Didja pick them up yet? Weights?


Not yet. He had to order spokes. Hopefully tomorrow or Saturday they will be ready.


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## shemers (Apr 22, 2010)

I am considering Peter's latest asymmetric rims HR933C 2015 newest 29er asym rim 30mm depth 33mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd. Peter says they can be drilled with no external holes, so no rim strips. Also, they can be directionally drilled, but he asked me to specify the distances between spokes for within and between 3-spoke groupings. Not sure what this means. Seems like these rims have everything I could want, but as a first-time wheel builder, would I be better off going with more conventional rims? Weight is not an issue for me.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

shemers said:


> I am considering Peter's latest asymmetric rims HR933C 2015 newest 29er asym rim 30mm depth 33mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd. Peter says they can be drilled with no external holes, so no rim strips. Also, they can be directionally drilled, but he asked me to specify the distances between spokes for within and between 3-spoke groupings. Not sure what this means. Seems like these rims have everything I could want, but as a first-time wheel builder, would I be better off going with more conventional rims? Weight is not an issue for me.


The rims are stiff so easy to tension up in stages. But why put your work into a 26mm rim? You'll get more performance from a 30mm rim for 2.2 tires. Working with no external holes is tougher.


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## Vicmtb (Aug 21, 2015)

the rims look great. any updates for wheels pictures?


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

So it sounds like you can have your rims custom drilled for the hub. Pretty amazing.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

shemers said:


> I am considering Peter's latest asymmetric rims HR933C 2015 newest 29er asym rim 30mm depth 33mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd. Peter says they can be drilled with no external holes, so no rim strips. Also, they can be directionally drilled, but he asked me to specify the distances between spokes for within and between 3-spoke groupings. Not sure what this means. Seems like these rims have everything I could want, but as a first-time wheel builder, would I be better off going with more conventional rims? Weight is not an issue for me.


Stick with a conventional drilling.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

shemers said:


> I am considering Peter's latest asymmetric rims HR933C 2015 newest 29er asym rim 30mm depth 33mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd. Peter says they can be drilled with no external holes, so no rim strips. Also, they can be directionally drilled, but he asked me to specify the distances between spokes for within and between 3-spoke groupings. Not sure what this means.


Sounds like he thinks you want to do a 2:1 lacing pattern, that has twice as many spokes on the drive side as on the non drive side. That is often done with spokes in groups of 3, like on the Fulcrum road wheels, with small gaps within the group and larger gaps between groups. That is not what you had in mind, is it? If not, you should confirm with him what he meant.

What I am assuming you want it plain old directional drilling in an alternating pattern to suit a standard 2x or 3x 1:1 lacing.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Here is an example of those 3 spoke groupings as done by Fulcrum: FULCRUM Wheels - Products: Racing Zero


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## shemers (Apr 22, 2010)

Yeah, I just asked about directional drilling for a cross 3 pattern. I guess he didn't understand. Probably best to let him drill it the way he is used to.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

shemers said:


> Yeah, I just asked about directional drilling for a cross 3 pattern. I guess he didn't understand. Probably best to let him drill it the way he is used to.


While the misunderstanding is frustrating and not super confidence inspiring, I'm impressed he even knows about triplet lacing, which is really uncommon on MTBs. I guess that they probably get a lot of requests for such drilling on their road rims.

I found myself pondering if their "directional drilling" is simply angled left/right, or if it is more sophisticated like WTB's, where it takes into account the tangent angle of the spoke. I'm not optimistic about getting that level of detail out of them though, given the language barrier!


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## ALshooter (Apr 27, 2015)

Took my new Nexties for a short ride this weekend and definitely need to get back out and play with the pressures. I was running 28f/30r. Need to go lower. I did notice a huge difference in how well they tracked compared to the stock mustang elite wheels. Not quite used to the sound that hub makes though. zzzzzzzz! 

Anyway, the builder forgot to weigh the hoops before lacing them up. 
He did weigh them after they were built and gave me ballpark #'s. :madmax:
Front was ~800g with 180mm XT Icetech rotor and the rear was a little over 900g with 160mm XT Icetech rotor. Both wheels are 32 hole laced up with DT Super Comp spokes and brass nipples.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

ALshooter said:


> Took my new Nexties for a short ride this weekend and definitely need to get back out and play with the pressures. I was running 28f/30r. Need to go lower.
> 
> Anyway, the builder forgot to weigh the hoops before lacing them up.


Grrrrr . Maybe you should check if he'll pull them apart to weigh them and then rebuild them for free .

Yeah, let us know how much you end up dropping pressures vs. what you formerly ran with narrower rims. There is a lot of mixed info out there about how/if wider rims actually increase bottom out resistance or if they only improve sidewall stability under lateral loads.


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## CrimsonCountry (Jul 14, 2011)

ALshooter said:


> Took my new Nexties for a short ride this weekend and definitely need to get back out and play with the pressures. I was running 28f/30r. Need to go lower. I did notice a huge difference in how well they tracked compared to the stock mustang elite wheels. Not quite used to the sound that hub makes though. zzzzzzzz!
> 
> Anyway, the builder forgot to weigh the hoops before lacing them up.
> He did weigh them after they were built and gave me ballpark #'s. :madmax:
> Front was ~800g with 180mm XT Icetech rotor and the rear was a little over 900g with 160mm XT Icetech rotor. Both wheels are 32 hole laced up with DT Super Comp spokes and brass nipples.


Awesome. Those sound like reasonable weights given they include the rotors. What tires are you running? And, of course, any pics? I'm torn b/w the LB 38/31.6 and these Nextie 38/32 given their asymmetric drilling.


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## ALshooter (Apr 27, 2015)

CrimsonCountry said:


> Awesome. Those sound like reasonable weights given they include the rotors. What tires are you running? And, of course, any pics? I'm torn b/w the LB 38/31.6 and these Nextie 38/32 given their asymmetric drilling.


Tires are 2.35 Ikon 3C EXO TR rear and 2.4 Ardent EXO TR front. Wasn't real happy with the Ardent but will give it another shot with lower pressure. May end up with another 2.35 Ikon on the front. I'll get some pictures tonight.


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## CrimsonCountry (Jul 14, 2011)

I bet the Ikon looks huge on that wide of a rim. I hear they're awesome on these wider wheels given their round profile and high volume. I love mine and that's just on my 24mm ID wheels.


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## ALshooter (Apr 27, 2015)

*Nextie Asymetric 32/38*

2.4 Ardent on front. 







These EXO casings are much stiffer than the Non EXO that I was running so it may take a while for them to break in. On the stock wheels I was running a 2.35 Ikon 3c TR front and the stock Bontrager XR1 in the rear. Both of those tires had very pliable casings and showed changes in air pressure more. Regardless, I'm thinking I will put the non EXO Ikon on the front very soon. 







2.35 Ikon on rear. I was a little concerned whether this tire/wheel combo would fit on the rear with enough clearance. As it sits now there is about 1 cm clearance at the seat stay and chain stay bridges. 








I will report back on final pressures vs stock wheels after I put a couple dozen miles on them and get 'em dialed in.


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## Dr Wankel (Oct 2, 2007)

ALshooter said:


> Tires are 2.35 Ikon 3C EXO TR rear and 2.4 Ardent EXO TR front. Wasn't real happy with the Ardent but will give it another shot with lower pressure. May end up with another 2.35 Ikon on the front. I'll get some pictures tonight.


This has been a go-to combo of mine for the past couple seasons, albeit on a narrower rim... 18-20 psi in the Ardent and 24-26 in the Ikon has worked really well for me @ 175 lbs. The Ardent really feels like a different tire at higher pressures and not in a good way. Get it down close to 20 psi and it comes alive.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

ALshooter said:


> 2.35 Ikon on rear. I was a little concerned whether this tire/wheel combo would fit on the rear with enough clearance. As it sits now there is about 1 cm clearance at the seat stay and chain stay bridges.
> View attachment 1010798
> 
> 
> I will report back on final pressures vs stock wheels after I put a couple dozen miles on them and get 'em dialed in.


Nice wheels! I'm running the 35/30 Nextie rims on my SC 5010. I'm roughly 185 ready to ride and use Bontrager XR4 2.35 on the front and a XR3 2.35 on the rear. I've found I get rim strikes when it is below 20 but above 25 feels stiff. I normally shoot for 23 or 24 according to the gauge on my pump.


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## Zagi (Feb 1, 2007)

A year ago I bought two rims from iplay. Hoop that was stacked on the rear wheel is easily go out of the true and had to be centered after almost every ride. Wheels are used for training and xc race. Finally appeared damage . which I reported at the Belles, from whom I bought the rims . After a couple of days and several e-mails, they acted in accordance with the warranty and they sent me a new rim . Professional and commendable.
The picture shows what kind of damage is .


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## ALshooter (Apr 27, 2015)

Dr Wankel said:


> This has been a go-to combo of mine for the past couple seasons, albeit on a narrower rim... 18-20 psi in the Ardent and 24-26 in the Ikon has worked really well for me @ 175 lbs. The Ardent really feels like a different tire at higher pressures and not in a good way. Get it down close to 20 psi and it comes alive.


After about 8 miles of some chunk @ 20 psi on both ends you are spot on. A little more in the rear and no change in front will be perfect.

I was happy when I realized that my attention to the tires had vanished and I was just riding and trusting them. 2 PRs. The ardent grew on me today.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I have officially lost faith in carbon rims for downhill applications. Noticed this crack while cleaning my bike the other day. I suspect that damage happened some 2 weeks ago in a rooty section of a dh course I regularly do. Its a 4 or 5 feet drop into a slight incline where you can end up landing in some chunky roots. I felt I landed roughly there in one of the runs but didn't think it was something that would damage my wheel. I must say, several riders have damaged or bent their alu rims in that section, all bending at the bead section and/or flat spotting, but all showing a folded o bent bead lip. This rim shows no damage at the bead lip.

I must have ridden the wheel like this for about 10 more runs since the day I suspect it cracked.

Has light bicycle replaced rims that have failed like this one? These were not ordered from LB, im just trying to judge my seller to a certain standard. So far, they havent answered my email.

























Cheers


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

abelfonseca, 
Sorry to see that cracked rim.'
What rim is that ? 
xc/am/dh weight?


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Its a 26er hookless, 27mm inner width, 33mm outer, DH version rim. 460 grams. 

I think these dh carbon rims are too stiff for their own good. The outer structure "outstiffs" the nipple support structure and in the event of a large impact, the inability of the rim to absorb some of the impact through elastic deformation, causes the nipple seat to crack or some other part to fail. This just a hypothesis of mine.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I know this topic has been mentioned before but do any of these manufacturers make a 29er XC rim that can handle a 28c road tire at 100psi with a tube? I'm looking to build up a set that I can use for cross, light XC Racing, and the occasional road training ride.

Probably too much to ask but my current cheapo alloy wheels can do it, they're just a lot heavier and noodlier!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

rusty904 said:


> I know this topic has been mentioned before but do any of these manufacturers make a 29er XC rim that can handle a 28c road tire at 100psi with a tube? I'm looking to build up a set that I can use for cross, light XC Racing, and the occasional road training ride.
> 
> Probably too much to ask but my current cheapo alloy wheels can do it, they're just a lot heavier and noodlier!


cyclocross bike cyclo cross road bicycle carbon rim Light-Bicycle


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

BruceBrown said:


> cyclocross bike cyclo cross road bicycle carbon rim Light-Bicycle


Yeah was hoping to use the same set for road training, CX, and occasional XC racing. Probably asking too much of one rim, will have to pick 2 out of 3. I guess the rim bed is the weak point that doesn't allow mtb rims to run high pressure?


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

rusty904 said:


> Yeah was hoping to use the same set for road training, CX, and occasional XC racing. Probably asking too much of one rim, will have to pick 2 out of 3. I guess the rim bed is the weak point that doesn't allow mtb rims to run high pressure?


The only ones that I've seen that could possible fit the bill these days would be a set of Enve XC rims. Obviously not Chinese carbon rims, but you may be able to find a used set these days for not a lot of money.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Anybody get the Nextie Crocodile 42mm external/36mm internal 29er rims
[Crocodile] [NEW DESIGNED] Carbon Semi-Fat 29+ Rim 42mm Wall Hookless Tubeless Compatible [NXT29CD42]
or the carbonspeed HR942C rims? 
HR942C 2015 Newest design 29er carbon hookless rim 42mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
They look like the same rims to me but who knows what the difference is inside.
Anyway, they're supposed to have 3mm offset drilling. 
How would that affect the spoke length calculation? Anyone have any ideas?


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

I finely got to ride my nextie 40mm/hope wheels. Only a a short 16 mile ride on some what tame terrain. Look forward to trashing them this weekend. I didn't get a chance to weigh them. Im sure their not light.

















I'll take some better pics after I have more to report


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

D-SS FHR930C wheels 32/32H internal nipples
DT 350s hubs 6 bolts 32/32H 100x15/142x12
Sapim CX-Delta spokes
Sapim brass nipples
FHR930C rims 30mm depth 30mm width
AM wheels weigh 1600g/pair


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## mtmiller (Nov 1, 2006)

pwu_1 said:


> Anyway, they're supposed to have 3mm offset drilling.
> How would that affect the spoke length calculation? Anyone have any ideas?


Most spoke calculators I've seen allow you to take offset into account. If you think about it, offset doesn't have a huge effect on spoke length, but it should be accounted for as it may push your preferred spoke length from one size to the next.


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## mbmsg (Jun 15, 2009)

*Any online builders using these rims?*

Interested in trying a set of these, not sure if I want to build up a set myself. Anybody out there building these up online with hope hubs? If so please share.

I saw you can get them with novetec, I'll pass.

If not I'm pretty mechanically inclined, maybe I'll try building a set up. Say I shopped for everything needed online, hoops, hope hubs, and nipple/spokes, could it be done 600?

I realize I would need to buy some tools but with 4 car garage I always have room for more tools.

My only concern is all the options and choices, it makes the rest of the bike and associated choices/options seem easy to select.

Me, 6 ft 200lbs. Trail rider in NE. Maybe an occasional 18 inch drop but other than that its rocks and roots.


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## mdc (Apr 26, 2006)

mbmsg said:


> Interested in trying a set of these, not sure if I want to build up a set myself. Anybody out there building these up online with hope hubs? If so please share.
> 
> I saw you can get them with novetec, I'll pass.
> 
> ...


I would not hesitate to build them yourself or order the rims and have your LBS build them. My initial set were built by LB using Novatek hubs ( well over a thousand miles with zero issues). I did have to rebuild them for two reasons 1.) galvanic corrosion between the nipple and rim, and 2.) my new bike uses Boost 148 spacing. Needless to say I rebuilt my rims with i9's and brass nipples and they rip....

Fwiw I ride all over New England, weigh about 175, and ride a lot of tech and fast choppy stuff....


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

What rim, what bike? What NE trails?  im in NH


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## 4slomo (Jul 4, 2006)

I'm building them. A good set of budget hubs would be DT 350. PM me if interested.



mbmsg said:


> Interested in trying a set of these, not sure if I want to build up a set myself. Anybody out there building these up online with hope hubs? If so please share.
> 
> I saw you can get them with novetec, I'll pass.
> 
> ...


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

I built my second set of wheels on my XCS rims and onyx hubs recently. They went together relatively easily. My only difficulties were not realizing the rims were center drilled, not offset. The rims themselves were very true out of the box. A couple of rides in and I'm pretty happy.

Grab DB sapim spokes from Dans Comp, your hubs of choice (CRC if you're going Hope) then your rims of choice (XCS were like $60 cheaper than elsewhere for me. I went overboard on the hubs, but that's a pretty affordable wheelset for the performance!


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## mbmsg (Jun 15, 2009)

sandwich said:


> I built my second set of wheels on my XCS rims and onyx hubs recently. They went together relatively easily. My only difficulties were not realizing the rims were center drilled, not offset. The rims themselves were very true out of the box. A couple of rides in and I'm pretty happy.
> 
> Grab DB sapim spokes from Dans Comp, your hubs of choice (CRC if you're going Hope) then your rims of choice (XCS were like $60 cheaper than elsewhere for me. I went overboard on the hubs, but that's a pretty affordable wheelset for the performance!


Thanks have a website for xcs? Search wasn't helpful.


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## mdc (Apr 26, 2006)

vice grips said:


> What rim, what bike? What NE trails?  im in NH


Trek Remedy 9.8 29er. LB 35 mm external hookless. Trails- I live between Worcester and Providence, so we ride everything in the Blackstone Valley area, Diamond Hill in Cumberland Ri ( which rips), Vietnam, Big River etc. I also own a place up in Vt so I ride Stowe, Waterbury, KT etc. etc.


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## sq225917 (Dec 28, 2008)

abelfonseca said:


> I have officially lost faith in carbon rims for downhill applications. Noticed this crack while cleaning my bike the other day. I suspect that damage happened some 2 weeks ago in a rooty section of a dh course I regularly do. Its a 4 or 5 feet drop into a slight incline where you can end up landing in some chunky roots. I felt I landed roughly there in one of the runs but didn't think it was something that would damage my wheel. I must say, several riders have damaged or bent their alu rims in that section, all bending at the bead section and/or flat spotting, but all showing a folded o bent bead lip. This rim shows no damage at the bead lip.
> 
> I must have ridden the wheel like this for about 10 more runs since the day I suspect it cracked.
> 
> Cheers


Seems a bit rich to expect warranty on a rim that you acknowledge that you bonked in a notorious wheel wrecking spot. You pulled the spoke through so by definition you exceeded the safe working load of the rim.

Carbon rims are capable of elastic deformationdeformation, but its faster and takes place closer to their failure load than with alloy. It might even be the case than lower grades of carbon, high strength rather than hi-mod are better suited to rim design .


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

sq225917 said:


> Seems a bit rich to expect warranty on a rim that you acknowledge that you bonked in a notorious wheel wrecking spot. You pulled the spoke through so by definition you exceeded the safe working load of the rim.


I don't think he's after a warranty replacement on this particular rim.

The way I read it is he was asking if Light Bicycle have been known to honour rim failures if this type. Not necessarily caused by the same treatment. But of a visually similar type.

My take is he's lost faith in carbon rims due to how far the rim appears to have gone past usuable (even though he rode it some , and it was perfectly fine , after he suspects the damage was done) as opposed to a dented / buckled alloy rim. How many of us have or would ride a dented alloy rim back to the trailhead ? And how many of us would risk riding a carbon rim with this kind of visual damage when it "appears" to be so close to catastrophic failure ?

I don't think he was asking for a free gratis replacement policy moreover he was asking what type of replacement policy Light Bicycle have.

Just my 2c I could be a million miles wrong 

Fat Biker


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Fat biker is basically right. I am not holding the rim or the seller at fault here. I know the rim was stressed to a point where failure was a likely outcome and has been for plenty of DH alu rims. I have been very happy with these rims and have given them quite a bit of punishment, the wheels never went out of true or showed any damage besides rock scrapes until now. Even with that crack, that rear rim is still very much true! I asked how LB was handling these incidents because I know some brands have some generous crash replacement programs (even though I didnt crash) where they give a significant discount on a replacement or event replace it for "free". If they did not replace them for free or discounted, then that would be perfectly understandable, but if they did then all the better!

The reason I am giving up on carbon rims for DH is that, in my opinion, there is just to much out there to wreck your rim on a DH course, be it carbon or alu. The difference being that alu is much cheaper to replace, can be ridden in a damaged state while still being relatively safe and the wheels are plenty stiff with a DH rated alu rim, although somewhat heavier. I will be putting a DT FR600 on the back for less than half of the price and keep the carbon in the front. I dont see that front carbon rim failing any time soon. I am, and will still use carbon for my XC wheels. 

Cheers


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

This thread needs MORE of the following:
1. Anecdotes and pictures from people who have put their rims through the ringer. Real extended abuse and what the results were. ablefonseca is perfect, letting us know the kind of bike he's using (downhill), the kind of riding he's doing (medium drops to harsh landers) and how that terrain has affected other peoples rims (similar damage).
2. Anecdotes from people who have had good and bad experiences with communication, shipping, warranty from various companies. Custom orders and warranty service stores with good/bad results are helpful. Communication or shipping with BAD results are helpful. 
3. Anecdotes from people who bought stuff from "the new guy". Yea, I want to know if CarbonBicycle or this Peter guy are legit. Thanks for being the guinea pig!!!

This thread needs LESS of the following:
1. Anecdotes from people who bought and received something from an established company and are happy. I don't care if you had a good experience with Nextie or LB. So did a bunch of people.
2. Discussions about hubs and spokes.
3. Anecdotes about what rim, hub, spoke, nipple you just bought and who's going to build it and that you either haven't rode it yet or that you just did 6 miles of greenway and it feels great. Get back to us in 6 months and let us know how they held up and whether you really felt a difference when you did a side by side comparison with your old wheels, or if it was just "new girlfriend syndrome"
4. Side discussions about the merits of asymmetric rims and offset drilling. Tell us who can do it. Come back in 6 months and tell us how it worked out.
5. Advertising. Sorry Peter. You can help us answer questions, but don't spam us. Try sponsoring a forum or giving out discount codes if you want to advertise.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

jm2e said:


> This thread needs MORE of the following:
> 1. Anecdotes and pictures from people who have put their rims through the ringer. Real extended abuse and what the results were. ablefonseca is perfect, letting us know the kind of bike he's using (downhill), the kind of riding he's doing (medium drops to harsh landers) and how that terrain has affected other peoples rims (similar damage).
> 2. Anecdotes from people who have had good and bad experiences with communication, shipping, warranty from various companies. Custom orders and warranty service stores with good/bad results are helpful. Communication or shipping with BAD results are helpful.
> 3. Anecdotes from people who bought stuff from "the new guy". Yea, I want to know if CarbonBicycle or this Peter guy are legit. Thanks for being the guinea pig!!!
> ...


When did this become your website and thread?


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

Earlier today. Thanks for your continuing support.

Even before this all became mine, I figured we were allowed to include our opinions in our posts. And my opinion is that there's a ton of unhelpful stuff in MTBR that people need to sift through to get helpful information.


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## JChrichton4 (May 23, 2015)

jees dude, I read through a bunch of your posts... not a lot of the "required" information in much of what you have written. Why go troll all of a sudden. 

and sorry to everyone else reading along if this just spurs jm on


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

I like seeing trashed products But I like seeing new stuff that folks just built up, if you don't like what you see go find it some where else or make your own thread, you can be king there.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Is there some report on the "new design" 42mm wide rims?







Are the spoke holes directionally drilled? I bet they are not, but who knows.

I see them sold by different traders at different prices... any thought on if a 165$ priced rim will be different from a 225$ one, on the same design?


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I just bumped my L-B carbon rims over from my HT29 to a brand spankin' new Ibis Ripley (which is incredible). AM 29, 30mm wide hookless, Novatec D771 and D772 hubs, pillar aero x-tra 1420 spokes, pillar pt 734 nipples.

The rims have been great. I have rode them hard every single day for 2 years and they're going strong. No issues, best bike upgrade, especially for big hoops like the 29. Lighter, stiffer, wider - you can have all 3! It was about $690 shipped, took less than a month to arrive.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

savo said:


> Is there some report on the "new design" 42mm wide rims?
> View attachment 1012646
> 
> Are the spoke holes directionally drilled? I bet they are not, but who knows.
> ...


Just received a set from Peter at xmcarbonspeed. The holes are offset and directionally drilled. Impossible to tell from just looking at the hole but putting a spoke in makes it pretty obvious. There's also a sticker showing direction








This is the quickest I've received carbon rims from China. I e-mailed Peter last Thursday evening about the rims. Paid same night and 7 days later the rims gets delivered by usps.


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## Salt Cycles (Sep 25, 2004)

Anyone know what is going on with carbonbicycle.cc - the website is down and I have sent several emails with no response. hmmm


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Salt Cycles said:


> Anyone know what is going on with carbonbicycle.cc - the website is down and I have sent several emails with no response. hmmm


Site works for me, they may be on holiday.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Need some help with these offset rims.

From previous discussion, idea of the offset rim is to try and equalize the angle between the spokes on the left and right.
So the hubs I got has the following measurements:
Hub Flange to Center
Front Left: 23mm
Front Right: 36mm
Rear Left: 34.14mm
Rear Right: 19.54mm
So when I build for the front, I would lace it so the offset is biased towards the non-disk side(putting the hole closer to the Drive side flange) 
For the rear I would lace it so the offset is biased towards the disk side(putting the hole closer to the Disc side flange)
Is that right?
For spoke length calculation I can just add/subract 3mm from the Hub flange to center measurement for each side to get the correct length even though the difference really makes any difference


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

pwu_1 said:


> Just received a set from Peter at xmcarbonspeed. The holes are offset and directionally drilled. Impossible to tell from just looking at the hole but putting a spoke in makes it pretty obvious. There's also a sticker showing direction


thanks for the useful info.
I was thinking of ordering them with alternated hole pattern, and lacing them crossing the spokes, left side hole to right side flange and viceversa... but holes need to be correctly drilled for this!


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Salt Cycles said:


> Anyone know what is going on with carbonbicycle.cc - the website is down and I have sent several emails with no response. hmmm





tiretracks said:


> Site works for me, they may be on holiday.


site is down for me too
damn, they had the best prices for what i was looking for and i was about to order


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

savo said:


> thanks for the useful info.
> I was thinking of ordering them with alternated hole pattern, and lacing them crossing the spokes, left side hole to right side flange and viceversa... but holes need to be correctly drilled for this!


Even if the holes weren't directionally drilled, and you "could" do that, it would defeat the purpose of the offset drilling. In this instance, "offset drilling" means all of the holes are shifted 3mm off center to one side, but they are all drilled on the same line; it does not mean that every/other hole is offset relative to the adjacent hole.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> Need some help with these offset rims.
> 
> From previous discussion, idea of the offset rim is to try and equalize the angle between the spokes on the left and right.
> So the hubs I got has the following measurements:
> ...


You've got it right. Compared to a normal symmetric rim, the rear spoke holes move further from drive side flange (= improved bracing angle) and front spoke holes move further from the disc side flange.

It has enough impact on spoke length to justify the 3mm adjustment to the flange distances in the calculator. Often it makes the L side / R side spoke lengths close enough to purchase a single length.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

InertiaMan said:


> In this instance, "offset drilling" means all of the holes are shifted 3mm off center to one side, but they are all drilled on the same line; it does not mean that every/other hole is offset relative to the adjacent hole.


i know.
but some traders are offering them with different hole pattern









alternated holes (A) with crossed spokes would give to each spoke the best angle available,

offset holes (B) would instead be aimed to reduce asymmetry in spokes tension


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

savo said:


> i know.
> but some traders are offering them with different hole pattern
> 
> alternated holes (A) with crossed spokes would give to each spoke the best angle available,
> ...


More angle is better, but only up to a point. Then more angle is actually worse.

That is the very reason that rim companies offer hole patterns like A for fat bike rims, to avoid the severe angle that occurs when building wheels on very wide flanges (like on 170mm and 190mm hubs). The intent is to have the left-shifted hole go to the left flange. Some folks do build crossed wheels on these patterns, but as you've noticed if you search on them, its rare to non-existant on production wheels, and its a small minority on DIY builds, and among that minority, nearly all of those who have done it note that it was a major PITA to accomplish, since the tension trajectories start interacting weirdly w/ the rim as tension is introduced.

The unavoidable severe nipple/spoke angle that occurs is also a potential problem.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

savo said:


> i know.
> but some traders are offering them with different hole pattern
> 
> View attachment 1013331
> ...


Let me try and clarify. The rims I received has pattern B as shown where all the holes are offset to 1 side of the rim. 
In addition to the offset, the holes seems to be drilled at an angle so that it points to the left or right flange.

When I first got them I thought that was pretty cool...but after thinking about it now...wouldn't this angle drilling cause un-even pressure on the nipple/spoke bed interface?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> Let me try and clarify. The rims I received has pattern B as shown where all the holes are offset to 1 side of the rim.
> In addition to the offset, the holes seems to be drilled at an angle so that it points to the left or right flange.
> 
> When I first got them I thought that was pretty cool...but after thinking about it now...wouldn't this angle drilling cause un-even pressure on the nipple/spoke bed interface?


The offset B is what I interpreted from your original description, so no confusion there.

Angled drilling, if done correctly, is beneficial; it should result in more even forces, not un-even.

In a typical straight drilled hole, the nipple wants to seat vertically at 0 angle, but the spoke is coming in at a lateral angle (say 6 degrees or so, depends on the specific build). So you end up with either a nipple that isn't squarely seated in the rim bed (= sub-optimally distributed forces) or a spoke that bends as it exits the nipple, or most likely a little of both. This was less of a problem on aluminum rims with integrated grommets and/or with nipples that have spherically shaped bases, since the nipple can adjust reasonably well. Even on straight drilled carbon rims its not a major problem, though its not ideal.

With a directionally drilled hole, the rim bed is ideally "shaped" so that when the nipple is seated evenly in the hole, it exits the rim at an angle similar to the spoke. This avoids the spoke bend as it exits the nipple, and improves force distribution to the rim.

What you really want to avoid is mis-lacing a directionally drilled rim such that the left spokes are attached to nipples/holes intended for the right. That shouldn't be too hard to avoid: if you let a nipple/spoke hang naturally from its seated position in an empty rim, its usually pretty visually apparent which side of the hub that spoke hole is "pointing" toward.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Thanks for the explanation. It all sort of makes sense now. 
I just ordered Sapim Lasers for the build. Bit nervous since this is the first time I'll be building wheels with Lasers and I've heard the Lasers tend to be more prone to spoke wind up so I guess we will see. Will update again when the wheels are built


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

PWU_1,

Look inside the rim where the nipple will seat, and perhaps you can see if the nipple seat area is shaped. Using a constant-diameter drill and simply drilling at an angle may be an improvement, but its not ideal. I now see this is what led you consider if the nipple seating might actually be worse, since a tilted nipple might place more force on one side of the nipple. A spherically shaped nipple base would mostly avoid minimize that, I would guess.

Better would be a drill with a shoulder that shapes the inside rim bed a bit. Sort of like a combination countersink/drill bit, but the countersink shape would correspond to nipple bases. With the nipple reinforcement thickness on the rims in your photo, this would seem viable (sufficient material to consume some depth for shaping).

I have no idea what your rim manufacturer did, but maybe you can see on the inside??


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

InertiaMan said:


> PWU_1,
> 
> Look inside the rim where the nipple will seat, and perhaps you can see if the nipple seat area is shaped. Using a constant-diameter drill and simply drilling at an angle may be an improvement, but its not ideal. I now see this is what led you consider if the nipple seating might actually be worse, since a tilted nipple might place more force on one side of the nipple. A spherically shaped nipple base would mostly avoid minimize that, I would guess.
> 
> ...


Yes. Exactly! 
I took a look inside, its pretty hard to see but doesn't look like any special shaping on the nipple seat. that's why I was wondering if the seating might actually be worse. But, no matter, it seems we are more like beta-testers when it comes to the chinese carbon rims so I'm just going to lace them up and ride them


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> Yes. Exactly!
> I took a look inside, its pretty hard to see but doesn't look like any special shaping on the nipple seat. that's why I was wondering if the seating might actually be worse. But, no matter, it seems we are more like beta-testers when it comes to the chinese carbon rims so I'm just going to lace them up and ride them


If you're worried about it, use Sapim Polyax nipples which supposedly can be off-axis up to 9 degrees. Most good nipples on the market seem to have a rounded base of one sort or another, but Sapim brags more about theirs . . . not sure if they are substantially better or not. But the concept it credible.

I think the "slanted" drilling is still an improvement, even if not ideal. These carbon rims are significantly thicker than aluminum rims, and the nipple holes are pretty tight tolerance. As a result, the nipples, in my experience, tend to fix at the exact angle of the hole. In other words, in a typical straight drilled chinese carbon rim, a Polyax nipple can't rotate to adapt to the spoke angle, because the nipple hole is essentially too "deep" and tight. But in the slanted drilling, the nipple-to-spoke angle will be much improved, and the nipple-to-rim contact will still be pretty good because of the Polyax (or similar) nipple base.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

InertiaMan said:


> I think the "slanted" drilling is still an improvement, even if not ideal. These carbon rims are significantly thicker than aluminum rims, and the nipple holes are pretty tight tolerance. As a result, the nipples, in my experience, tend to fix at the exact angle of the hole. In other words, in a typical straight drilled chinese carbon rim, a Polyax nipple can't rotate to adapt to the spoke angle, because the nipple hole is essentially too "deep" and tight. But in the slanted drilling, the nipple-to-spoke angle will be much improved, and the nipple-to-rim contact will still be pretty good because of the Polyax (or similar) nipple base.


+1 on this observation


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Is the directional drilling right left, or also forward backward?


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

InertiaMan said:


> More angle is better, but only up to a point. Then more angle is actually worse.
> 
> That is the very reason that rim companies offer hole patterns like A for fat bike rims, to avoid the severe angle that occurs when building wheels on very wide flanges (like on 170mm and 190mm hubs). The intent is to have the left-shifted hole go to the left flange. Some folks do build crossed wheels on these patterns, but as you've noticed if you search on them, its rare to non-existant on production wheels, and its a small minority on DIY builds, and among that minority, nearly all of those who have done it note that it was a major PITA to accomplish, since the tension trajectories start interacting weirdly w/ the rim as tension is introduced.
> 
> The unavoidable severe nipple/spoke angle that occurs is also a potential problem.


I see.
but speaking of a 29er rim on 100mm/142mm hubs I can't see that angle to go beyond the optimal. Conversely, I think that it would be sub-optimal in a common build, even with offset rim holes like in B.
26er fatbike rims with wider hubs are a different thing and i can't say what kind of build would give optimal spoke angle.

take a look at the new Alchemist wheels presented at eurobike...


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

Sorry for the website server was on maitenance at that time, now it is ok.


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

Same design and same quality, CB always offers carbon rims at a lower price but high quality.


savo said:


> Is there some report on the "new design" 42mm wide rims?
> View attachment 1012646
> 
> Are the spoke holes directionally drilled? I bet they are not, but who knows.
> ...


----------



## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

bktide said:


> Same design and same quality, CB always offers carbon rims at a lower price but high quality.


i see... nice price on rims but high fees for payment and shipping... i'll email you soon to see if we can make a deal


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

bktide said:


> Same design and same quality, CB always offers carbon rims at a lower price but high quality.


I agree on the high fees and shipping. Those aren't competitive and didn't used to be part of your good pricing. Please remove the PayPal fee and reduce your shipping if you want business.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

bktide said:


> Same design and same quality, CB always offers carbon rims at a lower price but high quality.


I'm on the look for some carbon rims, your prices are ok, but damn those taxes and postage are a deal breaker, not to mention the custom fees we add to pay over the rims and the postage and the taxes.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

savo said:


> I see.
> but speaking of a 29er rim on 100mm/142mm hubs I can't see that angle to go beyond the optimal. Conversely, I think that it would be sub-optimal in a common build, even with offset rim holes like in B.
> 26er fatbike rims with wider hubs are a different thing and i can't say what kind of build would give optimal spoke angle.
> 
> take a look at the new Alchemist wheels presented at eurobike...


I agree with you on the "not beyond optimal point". There are a ton of DH and single speed wheels with a much larger bracing angle than would be achieved with in this moderate "crossover pattern" scenario, and they are typically praised for their strength.

I have always been interested in crossover spoking. If you dig up some of the info on the Shimano "Sweet 16" road wheels from the early 2000s, Santana was using them on their tandems and quoting crazy figures about how they were stronger than 40+ spoke conventional designs. For some reason though, it never caught on.

The most educated opinions I have seen mention what another post alluded to, which is that when you get spokes crossing over center you improve bracing angle, but you also introduce some "instability", not in terms of handling traits, but from a structural perspective, with the wheel being more difficult to true, and more prone buckle under certain circumstances. One other complaint i have seen is that the rim can take on a wavy pattern, due to the twisting force from spokes located so far off center, however I would imagine that the stiffness of a carbon rim would eliminate this...it would be more of an issue with a single wall fatbike rim or something like that.

I'm still interested in it, but it doesn't seem like you get the better bracing angle without paying for it in other ways.


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## jja (Jan 14, 2004)

InertiaMan said:


> If you're worried about it, use Sapim Polyax nipples which supposedly can be off-axis up to 9 degrees. Most good nipples on the market seem to have a rounded base of one sort or another, but Sapim brags more about theirs . . . not sure if they are substantially better or not. But the concept it credible.


+1 on this and the unquoted rest of the post.

I have used and compared Sapim Polyax, DT and Wheelsmith nipples and while all have a sloped head, the Polyax is sloped/curved all the way to the top of the head while the others slope a bit then have a hard angle to a straighter/more bulbous top knob.

...so Polyax nipples look to me like they can take higher spoke angles and non-eyeletted or straight-drilled holes better than the others and have become my top choice in all situations.


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

Our prices are low and transparent, you can compare our "order total cost" with other suppliers, anyway, thank you for attention to us.


Aglo said:


> I'm on the look for some carbon rims, your prices are ok, but damn those taxes and postage are a deal breaker, not to mention the custom fees we add to pay over the rims and the postage and the taxes.


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

Shipping cost should not be too different, because it is calculated according to the standards of EMS.Rearding the paypal fee, our price is lower and our profit is less too, so it can not be removed, but we will consider your advice, thank you.


eb1888 said:


> I agree on the high fees and shipping. Those aren't competitive and didn't used to be part of your good pricing. Please remove the PayPal fee and reduce your shipping if you want business.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

bktide said:


> Shipping cost should not be too different, because it is calculated according to the standards of EMS.Rearding the paypal fee, our price is lower and our profit is less too, so it can not be removed, but we will consider your advice, thank you.


Other suppliers have lower shipping prices and there was $50/pr shipping and no Paypal fee when I bought my rims(which I am happy with) last year. The 35/30mm 29 rims were $340 shipped. The price should also be dropping since the Yuan has been devalued 3.5% against the dollar recently. This reduces the price by the Paypal fee without any change on your part at all. Shipping costs are also reduced. This was done by your government to increase exports by reducing prices and help your economy. Now is the time to recognize that and move forward with lower prices.


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## armourbl (May 5, 2012)

Seems silly to negotiate terms of payment in a forum.

ben


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

armourbl said:


> Seems silly to negotiate terms of payment in a forum.
> 
> ben


About as Silly as companies advertising in the threads


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

eb1888 said:


> Other suppliers have lower shipping prices and there was $50/pr shipping and no Paypal fee when I bought my rims(which I am happy with) last year. The 35/30mm 29 rims were $340 shipped. The price should also be dropping since the Yuan has been devalued 3.5% against the dollar recently. This reduces the price by the Paypal fee without any change on your part at all. Shipping costs are also reduced. This was done by your government to increase exports by reducing prices and help your economy. Now is the time to recognize that and move forward with lower prices.


Its a free market and he can increase or decrease the price. You have many other options.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

pwu_1 said:


> Just received a set from Peter at xmcarbonspeed. The holes are offset and directionally drilled. Impossible to tell from just looking at the hole but putting a spoke in makes it pretty obvious. There's also a sticker showing direction
> 
> 
> 
> ...


pwu are you going to use them with regular sized tires or with "plus" sized ones?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

savo said:


> pwu are you going to use them with regular sized tires or with "plus" sized ones?


I'm going to use them with regular tires. Going to try and find some big volume 2.3 or 2.5 tires. The frame I have in mind for these will probably not fit plus size tires.
I actually had a bit of buyers remorse after ordering these thinking they might be too wide for regular tires. 
But then I guess if ibis is putting the 941 on regular 29er frames hopefully I should be ok


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

After discussion, our CB team adopt your suggestion, the paypal fee has been removed, we are always willing to offer good products at good price to bicycle lovers.


eb1888 said:


> Other suppliers have lower shipping prices and there was $50/pr shipping and no Paypal fee when I bought my rims(which I am happy with) last year. The 35/30mm 29 rims were $340 shipped. The price should also be dropping since the Yuan has been devalued 3.5% against the dollar recently. This reduces the price by the Paypal fee without any change on your part at all. Shipping costs are also reduced. This was done by your government to increase exports by reducing prices and help your economy. Now is the time to recognize that and move forward with lower prices.


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

They should price in Yuan and let buyers (have option) use their CC to take advantage of currency flux / strong dollar.



eb1888 said:


> Other suppliers have lower shipping prices and there was $50/pr shipping and no Paypal fee when I bought my rims(which I am happy with) last year. The 35/30mm 29 rims were $340 shipped. The price should also be dropping since the Yuan has been devalued 3.5% against the dollar recently. This reduces the price by the Paypal fee without any change on your part at all. Shipping costs are also reduced. This was done by your government to increase exports by reducing prices and help your economy. Now is the time to recognize that and move forward with lower prices.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

sfo423 said:


> They should price in Yuan and let buyers (have option) use their CC to take advantage of currency flux / strong dollar.


Carbonbicycle has stopped charging a Paypal fee, although they still have a listing for it. I'd like to see it off the checkout page. Shipping on 420g 35/30mm rims is the same as for 510g 50/45mm rims. So this needs some work. $50/pr. is simple and easy to understand. Some are $50/pr. and some are $64/pr.


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## sfo423 (Oct 12, 2010)

I guess my point is that when you buy bike parts from an Euro Zone retailer, and the Euro is in the toilet, you get the benefit of USD conversion. With these guys pricing in $, you don't. I suspect they price in $ for that exact reason.



eb1888 said:


> Carbonbicycle has stopped charging a Paypal fee, although they still have a listing for it. I'd like to see ioff the checkout page. Shipping on 420g 35/30mm rims is the same as for 510g 50/45mm rims. So this needs some work. $50/pr. is simple and easy to understand. Some are $50/pr. and some are $64/pr.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

sfo423 said:


> I guess my point is that when you buy bike parts from an Euro Zone retailer, and the Euro is in the toilet, you get the benefit of USD conversion. With these guys pricing in $, you don't. I suspect they price in $ for that exact reason.


The Yuan isn't traded in the markets like the Euro and dollar so the recent move was controlled by the government.


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## California_Dave (May 30, 2013)

*Nextie 29er Hookless 40mm external - 35mm Internal Rims*

Hi All,

I have been using the Chinese Carbon threads on MTBR (29er, 29er rims, fatty, dual-suspension) for about 1.5 years now for reviews on products sourced directly from China, and so I figured I should contribute with my own review.

I semi-recently purchased some Nextie 29er Hookless 40mm external - 35mm internal rims. These are actually not sold anymore, as they have changed their design to have thicker bead hooks, but I'll still put in a review.

This is the second set of rims I have sourced from Nextie. The first set was a set of road clinchers that I built into a road wheelset. I had no issues with these road rims, so I thought I would try to MTB rims.

It took about 1 month to receive my rims, as they were not in stock when I ordered them. A bit slow, but oh well. Having ordered from China before, I was not surprised.

This set of Nextie's came out of the box with no problems. I built them using BikeHubStore hubs with Sapim Laser spokes front and non-drive-side read, with Sapim D-Light spokes on the drive side, and aluminum nipples. This is a relatively lightweight build (except for the rim, though even this is not super heavy), and they are comparable to Stan's Arch EX's that I have built, but with greater internal width.

I initially mounted Maxxis Ikon 2.35 front and Ikon 2.2 rear, but once I verified frame clearance, I switched this to Maxxis Ardent 2.4 front and Ikon 2.35 rear. This results in a nice high-volume tire with a large footprint. The inner rim profile is great. I have no problems getting the Maxxis tires to seat while inflating, and once they are seated they are very difficult to get off the shoulder of the rim, even when the tires are deflated -- so I've had no burping problems.

I haven't ridden the rims for a long period of time, only a few hundred miles, but I just rode TAMBA's Rose to Toad's ride, which is a 62 mile ride with lots of granite rock gardens, some of them smooth, and some with square edges. I had these wheels mounted to my Niner RIP 9 RDO (140mm front, 125mm rear), and I pushed the bike quite hard, hitting lots of rocks and jumping to flat, and I got no protest from the wheels. So at this point I would say the rims are past the initial worry of whether they will handle any mountain bike use at all. My guess is that they will last for a long time as long as they do not get rock strikes. For this reason I will not use ultra low pressures when in rocky areas, but the traction is still good, even with slightly higher pressures.

So overall I am very happy with the Nextie rims. I have gotten what I expected out of them, which is a competent product that is not obviously flawed.

Here's a picture of them:

*https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...8gb62ZdMsp4/s800-Ic42/20150910_090945_HDR.jpg*


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

Dave I just had built some 40-35mm nexties for my remedy. I used hope pro evo 2 hubs and dt comps with brass nips. I really don't want to worry about my wheels. I hate skinny rims, and after riding my Derbys on my tracer im not sure if I can be happy with any thing but wide carbon. The wheels where the only thing that was keeping my remedy from being a really awsome bike. The wheels were stiff, light, pick up speed quick, and gave loads of traction. I was in love with my bike and my wheels. My friend that has been building wheels for around 25 years with a few of these wide carbon hoops whipped them up for me. he liked the way they built up and seemed happy with them. A vote of confidence in them for me.

I've only had about 6-8 rides before today. Mostly on fast easy terrain, smooth some what sandy trails. Today I wanted to take them up into the mountains. The trail started with a super smooth bermed trail, lots of pumper rollers. Really fun. The stiff wheels brings the bike to life. It helped the bike feel like a smaller wheel bike.

After about a 2 minute down hill of pump feast, I come out of a corner to pump the bike in a roller and I hear a huge pop! Like over inflating a tube. I roll to a stop and hear stans pissing out. To my horror I find this








Im so bummed, it really wreaked my day it was only a few minutes into my ride and I really need the release of riding. It was a crappy 40 minute drive home. I hope nextie will get me a rim quick! The season is getting long in the tooth and im going into my busy season for work so my riding time will be limited.

I hope your wheels hold up better and this was just a fluke


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

What psi did you hit during the setup tubeless? What were you running them at on the ride?


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

The wheels were set up tubeless, I had around 25 psi. I weight 180 kited up


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## California_Dave (May 30, 2013)

Vice Grips,

Sorry to hear about your wheels! 

Was there a rim strike or did they just blow up in the corner?

Yeah, I hope mine hold up. I have 2K miles on my frame, a few hundred on both the road on mountain wheels. It seems like I have gotten lucky, while other people have lots of problems. Maybe this is due to the lack of QC at the factories? 

Anyways, sorry to hear about your troubles.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

California_Dave said:


> Maybe this is due to the lack of QC at the factories?


QC could be better for sure. 
one of the rims I bought cracked as soon as I inflated a tire on it (with tube, pressure was not over 1.5bar). I got a new one at no expenses of course but it's someway disappointing.

anyway, i'll keep buying chinese carbon rims for my bikes


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

That's an obvious rim strike. I've crack 2-3 of them that way. You can see the damage hit point on the lip of the rim.


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

MTB Pilot said:


> That's an obvious rim strike. I've crack 2-3 of them that way. You can see the damage hit point on the lip of the rim.


I've only riden these rims a few times, they look brand new excite the cracked area. My Derbys are two years old and looking 5 years old with all the war wounds in them. Those have taken massive hits that made my teeth hurt, and are still running strong, true, and best of all crack free.


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

California_Dave said:


> Vice Grips,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your wheels!
> 
> ...


Im not saying it wasn't from a rock strike but it pooped when I was was loading the wheel in a corner. The funny thing was I was looking over the wheel set with a passer by that was remarking how cool they looked.

I tried to order a rim from Ray, hoping it would get shipped today. Nope he's at interbike. Nothing is getting shipped till next week 

Im going to contact nextie and see if they will do any thing?


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## Danish Dynamite (Sep 15, 2005)

What rim tape do you recommend for the new rim with 28mm inner width?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Danish Dynamite said:


> What rim tape do you recommend for the new rim with 28mm inner width?


Nextie do not compare with Derby, you get what you pay for. My local shop will not sell Nextie anymore. I have LB 30mm rims and Derby 35mm, the LB rims are 1.5 years old and holding up great, but the Derby's are on a different level!!


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

eb1888 said:


> I agree on the high fees and shipping. Those aren't competitive and didn't used to be part of your good pricing. *Please remove the PayPal fee *and reduce your shipping if you want business.


I'm pretty sure charging a paypal surcharge is against the user agreement (for PayPal). Maybe that is just a US PayPal thing


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

dgw7000 said:


> Nextie do not compare with Derby, you get what you pay for. My local shop will not sell Nextie anymore. I have LB 30mm rims and Derby 35mm, the LB rims are 1.5 years old and holding up great, but the Derby's are on a different level!!


Every one that's built up LB rims in my shop has great luck too. I love my Derbys, wanted to give nextie a try wish I didnt. They weigh the same as the xc Derbys but the side wall thickness on the Derbys is close to twice as thick. Like I've said I've smashed my Derby's and they are fine. A friend that is way bigger than me has ripped tires to shreds and taken chunks out of his side ways are still rolling

Few more pics with the tire off









__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

No one from Nextie has responded to my email about the broken rim, does any one have an email from a salesman or rep from nextie


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Nextie may take awhile to get back, but they will!!


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I have heard very good things about nextie's costumer service, I hope they sort you out although I dont know if a crack due to a rim strike will qualify for a full replacement.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

abelfonseca said:


> I have heard very good things about nextie's costumer service, I hope they sort you out although I dont know if a crack due to a rim strike will qualify for a full replacement.


They are all at the Interbike tradeshow, will not be back until next week.


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## wheelcool (May 23, 2008)

I'd be shocked if they don't send you a new rim. I've broken 3 of them just this season and Brian has not even hesitated to send me a new one. The last rim I broke was just a few days ago and just got confirmation from Brian this morning on a new rim. I will say though it has been running about 4 weeks from initial contact to when I receive the new rim.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

ziscwg said:


> I'm pretty sure charging a paypal surcharge is against the user agreement (for PayPal). Maybe that is just a US PayPal thing


They have $0 for the PayPal fee now. But they raised the rim price from $145 to $159 for the 35/30mm 29 rims, although $145 is still listed in the description. Always confusing and this stuff doesn't build confidence.
Now the same price as the 36/30.8mm rims is showing on the order page. Let's hope it's just a programming error.


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

wheelcool said:


> I'd be shocked if they don't send you a new rim. I've broken 3 of them just this season and Brian has not even hesitated to send me a new one. The last rim I broke was just a few days ago and just got confirmation from Brian this morning on a new rim. I will say though it has been running about 4 weeks from initial contact to when I receive the new rim.


Good to know WC, hopefully I have the same luck with them. I just sent them a second email. No one has gotten back to me yet. I used [email protected] and made the subject out to Brian and my order number. If any one has a better way of getting in touch with them please let me know.

What a difference going back to my roam wheel. It's such a pile of crap, soft whet noddel feel. So unresponsive. It makes my 29er feel like a 29er again. Oh well at lest it didn't brake after 6 rides lol, and I have really missed much riding because of it.

I think I'm going to order an AM derby tomorrow. Just wondering how many have ordered different/heavier lay ups? I just got the one they offered in the 40mm rim. If the do give a replacement should I go with an AM or DH lay up? Im about 180lb kitted up, ride pretty aggressive in New England. the sad thing I didn't even get to ride these wheels in some of our some what nasty spots. It kind of makes think twice about my front wheel.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

vice grips said:


> Good to know WC, hopefully I have the same luck with them. I just sent them a second email. No one has gotten back to me yet. I used [email protected] and made the subject out to Brian and my order number. If any one has a better way of getting in touch with them please let me know.
> 
> What a difference going back to my roam wheel. It's such a pile of crap, soft whet noddel feel. So unresponsive. It makes my 29er feel like a 29er again. Oh well at lest it didn't brake after 6 rides lol, and I have really missed much riding because of it.
> 
> I think I'm going to order an AM derby tomorrow. Just wondering how many have ordered different/heavier lay ups? I just got the one they offered in the 40mm rim. If the do give a replacement should I go with an AM or DH lay up? Im about 180lb kitted up, ride pretty aggressive in New England. the sad thing I didn't even get to ride these wheels in some of our some what nasty spots. It kind of makes think twice about my front wheel.


Gmail for a business in china? Try this: [email protected]

I inquired about a pantone color and got a reply in the same day. As for Derby, I can't say enough about Ray's customer service. I placed an order yesterday for two 650B rims. I've been running 29x35mm Derbys on an Ibis Ripley for 6 months and no issues with the AM layup. 205lb kitted up and I ride rocky trails. Mainly Flagstaff and Sedona.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

vice grips said:


> I think I'm going to order an AM derby tomorrow. Just wondering how many have ordered different/heavier lay ups? I just got the one they offered in the 40mm rim. If the do give a replacement should I go with an AM or DH lay up? Im about 180lb kitted up, ride pretty aggressive in New England. the sad thing I didn't even get to ride these wheels in some of our some what nasty spots. It kind of makes think twice about my front wheel.


What weight is the rim that broke? They will lay up to the weight you specify. They built up a 470 gram 30mm internal width 29 rear hoop for me. Pretty stout.


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## vice grips (Dec 21, 2012)

dimitrin said:


> What weight is the rim that broke? They will lay up to the weight you specify. They built up a 470 gram 30mm internal width 29 rear hoop for me. Pretty stout.


To be honest im not sure, I think it's the base one. I think it was 470g?
I didn't compare them to my Derbys till after it broke, but the derby side wall seems twice as think. As far as I could tell they looked good to go. I hope it was a fuke, and my front one holds up.


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## wheelcool (May 23, 2008)

i have been using the email address [email protected]


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

I ordered a set of wheels from LB ~ 2 weeks ago and they just shipped:

35mm wide 29er rims beadless for bicycle trail or mountain bike enduro with tubeless compatibility Light-Bicycle

RM29C07 All Mountain matte UD 32H
RM29C07 All Mountain matte UD 32H
HUB-F Hope 40T PRO 2 EVO disc brake Black 100mm 15mm 32H
HUB-R Hope 40T PRO 2 EVO disc brake Black 142mm 12mm 32H SRAM XX1
SPOKE DT Competition black
NIPPLE DT SWISS DT Pro Loc Black Aluminum

shipping says 4-7 days can't wait to try them out. Will post pics and feedback asap!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

vice grips said:


> To be honest im not sure, I think it's the base one. I think it was 470g?
> I didn't compare them to my Derbys till after it broke, but the derby side wall seems twice as think. As far as I could tell they looked good to go. I hope it was a fuke, and my front one holds up.


Front wheels aren't handling as much rider weight with as many rim hits as rears. You could go to a DH layup for the rear to match a Derby rim. 520g and $10 more. Looks like 3.5mm thick lip/sidewall option instead of 2.5 on a 35/30mm. ID probably drops to 28mm.
On the 40mm rim the DH goes from 470g to 580g and 3.5mm lip to 4.5mm for $20 more. ID drops from 33 to 31mm.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

After some rims bought in the past years from Nextie I'm now looking for some new ones and considering to buy them from ebay, due to the much lower price. Cheapest ones are from a seller named 3sbike, did someone buy from them?

would you buy from ebay sellers to save some money or would you stick with the better known sellers (often named in this thread) and pay more?


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## Ray Knight (May 5, 2014)

savo said:


> After some rims bought in the past years from Nextie I'm now looking for some new ones and considering to buy them from ebay, due to the much lower price. Cheapest ones are from a seller named 3sbike, did someone buy from them?
> 
> would you buy from ebay sellers to save some money or would you stick with the better known sellers (often named in this thread) and pay more?


I have a set for sale cheap if interested. 25mm wide rims with anodized red powerway hubs. QR installed but they are convertible.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

Super light 29er XC wheels 24/28H or 28/32H, 1280g/pair only
Rims: HR927C 27mm width 29er hookless rims
Hubs: Extralight mtb hubs 
Spokes: Sapim CX-Delta spokes
Nipples: Sapim self-securing nipples


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

my LB wheels shipped on Monday the 21st and were delivered on Friday the 25th! I was impressed!

I took them to my LBS, we checked them out and they look great. As soon as he gets some Stan's tape wide enough I will have them back ready to go. This was a complete wheelset:

RM29C07 All Mountain matte UD 32H
RM29C07 All Mountain matte UD 32H
HUB-F Hope 40T PRO 2 EVO disc brake Black 100mm 15mm 32H
HUB-R Hope 40T PRO 2 EVO disc brake Black 142mm 12mm 32H SRAM XX1
SPOKE DT Competition black uncertain
NIPPLE DT SWISS DT Pro Loc Black Aluminum


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

mtbiker040 said:


> my LB wheels shipped on Monday the 21st and were delivered on Friday the 25th! I was impressed!
> 
> I took them to my LBS, we checked them out and they look great. As soon as he gets some Stan's tape wide enough I will have them back ready to go. This was a complete wheelset:
> 
> ...


What was the weight on these?


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

Captain_America1976 said:


> What was the weight on these?


Not sure yet but once my new cassette, rotors, tires, and stan's tape wide enough for them come in and we get them all mounted up I am going to weigh them and my current wheels (wtb i23) for comparison.

Out of the box with just the rims, hubs, spokes, nipples, we didn't actually weigh them but they definitely felt very, very light!!

They also looked very nice with the hope hubs. I can't wait to see them with the Minions mounted up on them!!


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

What are folks paying for carbon rims delivered to the US?


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

tantansports said:


> come in and check things out .


will do!! :thumbsup:


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Derek200 said:


> What are folks paying for carbon rims delivered to the US?


$60 some dollars if I remember right.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Jayem said:


> $60 some dollars if I remember right.


What!!?? Where???


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

abelfonseca said:


> What!!?? Where???


I think he is talking about shipping only, excluding the rims.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

CrozCountry said:


> I think he is talking about shipping only, excluding the rims.


I think I would pass on a $60 carbon rim.


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## Espen (Feb 19, 2004)

I just purchased a pair of rims from Nextie, and the EMS shipping where $60 to Norway.
Guess that's the cost for world wide shipping.


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## Brett_c (Oct 3, 2015)

Hi tantansports, do you have a website? I'm looking for some 29er rims.


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## newoldskool (Oct 8, 2005)

Just found this cleaning my bike today
35mm about 4500 miles on a Tallboy


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

newoldskool said:


> Just found this cleaning my bike today
> 35mm about 4500 miles on a Tallboy


What rims are those?


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

newoldskool said:


> Just found this cleaning my bike today
> 35mm about 4500 miles on a Tallboy


Do you recall what might have caused it?


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## newoldskool (Oct 8, 2005)

Bought the rims from xmiplay peter about a year and half ago. I haven't had any problems in 4500 miles until now. Not sure how it happened.i just noticed it.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

newoldskool said:


> Bought the rims from xmiplay peter about a year and half ago. I haven't had any problems in 4500 miles until now. Not sure how it happened.i just noticed it.


Looks like there's a small, seemingly insignificant rim strike adjacent to the spoke. As insignificant as it seems it could have been a contributing factor. Either way I'm sure xmiplay will cut you a deal. They seem to have been pretty good in the past with other similar situations.

Hope it goes well for you 

Fat Biker


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

4500 miles? Seem like they lasted pretty good. I wouldn't be too upset if mine lasted that long.


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

Captain_America1976 said:


> What was the weight on these?


finally got them yesterday! I had my LBS order tires, a cassette, tubeless tape and valve stems, sealant, and rotors for them so I would have (2) complete sets of wheels.

I didn't weigh them without tires, rotors, etc but did weigh them complete.

Tires are: 
Maxxis 2.3 DHRII TR EXO 3C Maxx Terra Rear - claimed weight 825g
Maxxis 2.3 DHF TR EXO 3C Maxx Tearr Front - claimed weight 1005g

full built weight front was 2006g
full built weight rear was 2300g









































They are pretty close in weight to my previous set of wheels, just by holding both of them at the same time but my old wheels had nobby nics, so I weight wise I am basically the same but have way more tire now but just from spinning them around the yard and driveway, they feel super stiff and seem to spin up quick.

Will definitely get a chance to test them out on the trail this weekend.


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## avalonpt (Sep 7, 2015)

Hello
what was the previous Wheelset weigh
Whats the current bike weight 

Enviado do meu GT-I9505 através de Tapatalk


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

avalonpt said:


> Hello
> what was the previous Wheelset weigh
> Whats the current bike weight
> 
> Enviado do meu GT-I9505 através de Tapatalk


not sure on both  I will see if I can weigh them at home here!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

How do you like the Smuggler?


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

dgw7000 said:


> How do you like the Smuggler?


I love it!! I love the geometry, a very capable do it all bike. It climbs great and descends even better. When you drop the seat and get back and low on it, it feels like it's glued to the ground!


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

newoldskool said:


> Just found this cleaning my bike today
> 35mm about 4500 miles on a Tallboy


I'm curious do you know what your spoke tension was when you had these built up ?
4500 miles of what kind of riding also ?
TIA


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

Hello all,
I am about to order LB 35mm rims, I already have the hubs, on my current wheelset now, they are DT 240s, with XX1 driver.

My plan is to dismantle the current wheelset to get the hubs, and put them with new LB rim.

I called Incycle in San Dimas CA, The Path Bike Shop in Tustin CA and also Jenson USA in Corona CA, they charge about the same, $100 to build wheelset for labor, plus $2 per spokes x 64 pcs. about 3-5 days.

which one do you recommend to build? 

my other question, how to dismantle a wheel efficiently? seems like a lot of work to take off the nipple one by one.


----------



## hball (May 22, 2004)

you simply use some cutting pliers and cut all the spokes.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

hball said:


> you simply use some cutting pliers and cut all the spokes.


Not if it's an alloy rim and it is required for a future build or resale.

Fat Biker


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

Are light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike Light-Bicycle
and Carbon Rim | Carbon Wheel | Carbon Bicycle | Carbon Frame | Carbon Bike Par| Mountain bike
the exact same? Websites look nearly identical, including the "About Us" sections.

I have 35mm wide 29er wheelset from LB, been riding and racing hard for 2 years and they still look and ride great. I'm thinking about getting a second, lighter wheelset for racing. Vivian from LB helped me order the first set and answered my recent emails again. She said all wheels now use LB's "new" manufacturing process, even though this page says only new wide wheels use new process. Can anybody confirm that the 27mm rims use the new process?

Big change-new manufacture process is applied for Mountain Bike(MTB) carbon rim Light-Bicycle


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

my other question, how to dismantle a wheel efficiently? seems like a lot of work to take off the nipple one by one.[/QUOTE]

If you want to keep stress low on hub and rim, de-tension the wheel each nipple, one turn at a time. Will only take 1 or two times around the wheel to have released the tension from the wheel. Then, if you're in a hurry, and don't want the spokes, you can cut them with clippers.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestion.

now for the tape, what good tape beside gorilla? I have been using gorilla on my alu rim, working fine, but the residue is hard to clean.
what tape is Ibis using? where can I get it?


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

inter said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> now for the tape, what good tape beside gorilla? I have been using gorilla on my alu rim, working fine, but the residue is hard to clean.
> what tape is Ibis using? where can I get it?


Y don't you just order carbon rims without the hole in the rim bed??? That is how I'm going to order my next set. No more tape!


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

This: 3M 8898

3M - 8898 12MM X 55M - TAPE, SEALING, PP, BLUE, 0.47INX180FT: Electronic Components: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Basically a blue version of Stans. One of these rolls will last a LONG time.



inter said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> now for the tape, what good tape beside gorilla? I have been using gorilla on my alu rim, working fine, but the residue is hard to clean.
> what tape is Ibis using? where can I get it?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I don't like that tape, it's not sticky. Stans is much better, the blue 3m does work but will not last like stans!!


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

I grabbed the wrong tape. Its the 3M 8896. I don't notice any difference at all with Stans.

http://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Film-S...05127&sr=8-2&keywords=3m+8898#customerReviews


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

On another note, I am looking at building up a set of these for a new "boost" wheel set:

Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM hookless rim 35mm wide - carbon rim (Asmymetric) - Carbon Rim | Carbon Wheel | Carbon Bicycle | Carbon Frame | Carbon Bike Par| Mountain bike

I have only built a small handful of wheels, none on asymmetrical rims. Does an asymmetrical rim affect spoke length? It seems like it might but I can't quite get my mind around it.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

bigdrunk said:


> On another note, I am looking at building up a set of these for a new "boost" wheel set:
> 
> Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM hookless rim 35mm wide - carbon rim (Asmymetric) - Carbon Rim | Carbon Wheel | Carbon Bicycle | Carbon Frame | Carbon Bike Par| Mountain bike
> 
> I have only built a small handful of wheels, none on asymmetrical rims. Does an asymmetrical rim affect spoke length? It seems like it might but I can't quite get my mind around it.


It affects, but very little. Usually not significant. Use a spoke length calculator, they usually have rim holes offset options, you will know exactly.


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## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

Looking at these guys... DSS-FHR930C 30mm depth hookless carbon 29er wheels without external spoke holes - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

For my CS-036 build.

Peter said they're having a special, 565 for the pair plus 75 shipping.

They only have a 23.5 depth with a 30mm wide rim. Is that a problem? These will be used for aggressive XC riding.


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## dirkdaddy (Sep 4, 2007)

How in the heck do you get spoke nipples on the spokes w/o a hole, or am I not using my imagination enough?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

dirkdaddy said:


> How in the heck do you get spoke nipples on the spokes w/o a hole, or am I not using my imagination enough?


Using my imagination I imagine () they pass something, like a steel cable with something on the tip where they can screw a nipple, through the nipple hole and valve hole, screw the nipple in the tip and pull it.
I'm guessing this is pretty easy, but a slightly time consuming process.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

dirkdaddy said:


> How in the heck do you get spoke nipples on the spokes w/o a hole, or am I not using my imagination enough?


He posted a video a few pages back. Basically you'd thread a small piece of spoke into nipple, throw it in via the air valve hole and use a magnet to drag the nipple/spoke to the desired hole and pull the nipple into the hole and thread in the spoke.


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## Espen (Feb 19, 2004)

A magnet?
Steel niples? 

Sounds like a nightmare of a Job.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Espen said:


> Sounds like insanity.


FIFY
:thumbsup:


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## PeterXu (Mar 12, 2015)

bushcat said:


> Looking at these guys... DSS-FHR930C 30mm depth hookless carbon 29er wheels without external spoke holes - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
> 
> For my CS-036 build.
> 
> ...


Hey bro, what wheels I mentioned 565 USD/pair are these  N-SS FHR930C 29er mtb bike carbon wheels hookless 30mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Espen said:


> A magnet?
> Steel niples?
> 
> Sounds like a nightmare of a Job.


Not a steel nipple, any nipple. You cut the thread part of a steel spoke, and thread it into the nipple.

Still a possible nightmare, would be interesting to hear from someone that did it. Thinking about it the rims are so wide it may not be that big of a nightmare.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

CrozCountry said:


> Not a steel nipple, any nipple. You cut the thread part of a steel spoke, and thread it into the nipple.
> 
> Still a possible nightmare, would be interesting to hear from someone that did it. Thinking about it the rims are so wide it may not be that big of a nightmare.


I guess I will be doing it. Because I've decided my next set of carbon wheels will not have holes in the rim bed. I switch tires out too frequently based on where I'm riding and sometimes tape can be a hassle. I do plan to use alloy nipples. I'm sure there are other techniques to doing it. I'll look into it more before I actually start the build. But the one you have suggested sounds like it should work.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

My god, that much time taken out of my life to just build up a set of wheels? No thanks.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

pwu_1 said:


> He posted a video a few pages back. Basically you'd thread a small piece of spoke into nipple, throw it in via the air valve hole and use a magnet to drag the nipple/spoke to the desired hole and pull the nipple into the hole and thread in the spoke.


Ok, this way seems a lot more efficient than my imagined way, seems I need to enhance my imagination ...

Anyway, this are the videos *pwu_1* mentioned.

vid 1: Insert and pull nipple
vid 2: connect nipple and spoke

And now i'm torn between, no external hole rims and internal nipple rims :madman:


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I've looked through the usual suspects (LB, Nextie, XMI, XMCS), and I know I've seen it mentioned or a picture, but I cant find what I'm looking for on any of their websites:

~33mm exterior, ~26mm interior, ~400-420g hookless 29er rim.

Can anyone link me to such a beast?


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

CB has the asymmetric carbon rim with 33mm/26mm, you can see it at Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er XC hookless rim 33mm wide - carbon rim (Asmymetric) - Carbon Rim | Carbon Wheel | Carbon Bicycle | Carbon Frame | Carbon Bike Par| Mountain bike


Le Duke said:


> I've looked through the usual suspects (LB, Nextie, XMI, XMCS), and I know I've seen it mentioned or a picture, but I cant find what I'm looking for on any of their websites:
> 
> ~33mm exterior, ~26mm interior, ~400-420g hookless 29er rim.
> 
> Can anyone link me to such a beast?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> I've looked through the usual suspects (LB, Nextie, XMI, XMCS), and I know I've seen it mentioned or a picture, but I cant find what I'm looking for on any of their websites:
> 
> ~33mm exterior, ~26mm interior, ~400-420g hookless 29er rim.
> 
> Can anyone link me to such a beast?


when was the last time you see it? It may be discontinued.

you can look at this ones HR933C 2015 newest 29er asym rim 30mm depth 33mm wide, they are asymmetric and except by the weight they are what you ask .
I just bought them, now I'm like a kid on Christmas Eve


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> I've looked through the usual suspects (LB, Nextie, XMI, XMCS), and I know I've seen it mentioned or a picture, but I cant find what I'm looking for on any of their websites:
> 
> ~33mm exterior, ~26mm interior, ~400-420g hookless 29er rim.
> 
> Can anyone link me to such a beast?


I've also been looking for a rim like this that can handle "enduro". I've been eyeballing the Yishunbike ASD and RSD. They seem to be mid-fat rims with respectable weights. The ASD look like their newest design, although I'm a little unsure of the differences except for the profile depth. Does anyone have opinions/experiences with these?

ASD
29er Offset ASD Carbon Mountain Bike MTB Rims for xc/am/dh [ASD29-33S]

RSD
2016 Patented RSD MTB Carbon Bike Rims 27.5er, 29er, 27.5er plus, 29er plus


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

fanderson said:


> I've also been looking for a rim like this that can handle "enduro". I've been eyeballing the Yishunbike ASD and RSD. They seem to be mid-fat rims with respectable weights. The ASD look like their newest design, although I'm a little unsure of the differences except for the profile depth. Does anyone have opinions/experiences with these?
> 
> ASD
> 29er Offset ASD Carbon Mountain Bike MTB Rims for xc/am/dh [ASD29-33S]
> ...


Whats the price on those?


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

They're about $190 for the all mountain versions according to the price list that they sent me. PM me with your email address and I can shoot you the entire price list.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

fanderson are the reps the same at ACE Carbon? I thought they were the wheel division on Yishun. Do you mind sending me your price list? PM coming.


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## Rock Surf (Aug 28, 2010)

mtbiker040 said:


> I ordered a set of wheels from LB ~ 2 weeks ago and they just shipped:
> 
> 35mm wide 29er rims beadless for bicycle trail or mountain bike enduro with tubeless compatibility Light-Bicycle
> 
> ...


Pretty much looking to get the same exact thing. Just chatted with LB and they have the Hope Pro 2s in Boost size available now. Gonna get a set for my Fuse.


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

I wanted to give a long term update. I have been running these hoops for nearly two years now. I am a Clydes at 230lbs. I have ridden hard, Moab 4-5 times, Porcupine Rim, Whole Enchilada multiple times. Raced Enduro last season. They have handled everything I have thrown at them. I have no regrets and would order them again. The tubeless setup is easy. They have 200% been worth every dollar I spent on them. Mated to Hope hubs... the only change I would make was not to go with the Pillar spokes, though I have not had any broken spokes, I have gone through 3-4 nipples.

35mm wide 29er rims beadless for bicycle trail or mountain bike enduro with tubeless compatibility Light-Bicycle.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Rovershack said:


> I wanted to give a long term update. I have been running these hoops for nearly two years now. I am a Clydes at 230lbs. I have ridden hard, Moab 4-5 times, Porcupine Rim, Whole Enchilada multiple times. Raced Enduro last season. They have handled everything I have thrown at them. I have no regrets and would order them again. The tubeless setup is easy. They have 200% been worth every dollar I spent on them. Mated to Hope hubs... the only change I would make was not to go with the Pillar spokes, though I have not had any broken spokes, I have gone through 3-4 nipples.
> 
> 35mm wide 29er rims beadless for bicycle trail or mountain bike enduro with tubeless compatibility Light-Bicycle.


which pillar spokes? Or, rather which nipples? If you have the DSN series you have to add 2 to 3 mm to the spoke length or they will not be long enough. Most spoke calculators will not account for this.

I have pillar spokes and nipples on Ibis 928s as well as Hadley/Derbys with no issues. 210lb and prefer rocks to groomed.


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## Rovershack (Sep 15, 2011)

They were built by light-bicycle, so I don't know which pillar spokes.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

What's the latest recommendation for rims?

I would like:
30-35 mm inner width
Asymmetrical
Hookless with 3mm bead
500g or less
Hopefully directional drilling
I would love to get something from Light Bicycle because of their mostly positive feedback, but they don't do asymmetric yet.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

CrozCountry said:


> What's the latest recommendation for rims?
> 
> I would like:
> 30-35 mm inner width
> ...


They saw the future, you don't need asymmetric anymore, you have boost instead :thumbsup:


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

Rock Surf said:


> Pretty much looking to get the same exact thing. Just chatted with LB and they have the Hope Pro 2s in Boost size available now. Gonna get a set for my Fuse.


I am really happy with these wheels. 3 weeks of riding (about 3 times a week average) and about 90 miles no issues.

I wasn't aware that my alloy rims flexed until I switched to these and could immediately tell the difference in stiffness.

I put new tires on these (Minion DHRII r / DHF f 2.3, exo, maxx terra) and running them at 22psi rear and 20 psi front the grip is unreal. Because I had never used these tires before I can't attribute it to either the wide rims or the tires but I have a feeling it's a combination of both. Immediate confidence in traction on any surface (wet, leafy, loamy, rocky) you name it, I was leaning into these from the very first ride.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

CrozCountry said:


> What's the latest recommendation for rims?
> 
> I would like:
> 30-35 mm inner width
> ...


You have Nextie's NXT29WC38, check them here: [Asymmetric] [NXT29WC38] [All Mountain] 38mm Width Carbon Fiber 29" MTB Rim Clincher Hookless Tubeless Compatible


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> They saw the future, you don't need asymmetric anymore, you have boost instead :thumbsup:


Boost is still very asymmetrical. 22mm on the right and 35mm on the left.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Aglo said:


> You have Nextie's NXT29WC38, check them here: [Asymmetric] [NXT29WC38] [All Mountain] 38mm Width Carbon Fiber 29" MTB Rim Clincher Hookless Tubeless Compatible


Thanks, I saw that. I would probably want to get a complete wheel, I don't see this on nextie website.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

CrozCountry said:


> Thanks, I saw that. I would probably want to get a complete wheel, I don't see this on nextie website.


You mean you can't find them?
They are right under the top menu MTB > ASYMMETRIC.
I was thinking on buy it, but 38mm OD seems to much to me, instead I decided to buy a 33mm OD rims with a hookless 3.5mm bead.


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Boost + asymmetrical should equate to a pretty stout wheel. I hope to try as soon as DT 350 boost hubs are more readily available.



CrozCountry said:


> Boost is still very asymmetrical. 22mm on the right and 35mm on the left.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

bigdrunk said:


> Boost + asymmetrical should equate to a pretty stout wheel. I hope to try as soon as DT 350 boost hubs are more readily available.


They would resolve the problem with asymmetric real triangles, instead we have to use asymmetric rims and try to mitigate the problem with another axle standard.
The hype next year gonna be boost 148 and asymmetric rear triangles .


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Aglo said:


> You mean you can't find them?
> They are right under the top menu MTB > ASYMMETRIC.
> I was thinking on buy it, but 38mm OD seems to much to me, instead I decided to buy a 33mm OD rims with a hookless 3.5mm bead.


Thanks, I find rims, but not complete wheels (with hubs and spokes). I am thinking the builds on the Chinese websites are cheap so I might as well go for that instead of building myself.


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

CB has more choose for asymmetric rim, you can see MTB Asymmetric rim


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Really like some of the rims on Carbon Fan website. Asymmetric light carbon 29er rims for possible CX build. Anybody with experience with these rims or this company. As dependable as Light Bicycle? Thanks.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

bktide said:


> CB has more choose for asymmetric rim, you can see MTB Asymmetric rim


side note:
why no one makes asymmetric road carbon rims?


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

savo said:


> side note:
> why no one makes asymmetric road carbon rims?


Just a guess: Aerodynamics are an important element in road wheels, and asymmetric rims will create side force.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

CrozCountry said:


> Just a guess: Aerodynamics are an important element in road wheels, and asymmetric rims will create side force.


but we can find plenty of asymmetric alu rims... just no carbons.

with a wide U profile we could even offset the holes keeping a symmetric profile


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

CrozCountry said:


> Just a guess: Aerodynamics are an important element in road wheels, and asymmetric rims will create side force.


Then why are there asymmetric aluminum road rims?

An alternative guess: many/most carbon road rims have a very tall cross section = shorter spoke lengths = greater bracing angle = marginally less benefit from asymmetric drilling.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Andy13 said:


> Really like some of the rims on Carbon Fan website. Asymmetric light carbon 29er rims for possible CX build. Anybody with experience with these rims or this company. As dependable as Light Bicycle? Thanks.


If your CX reference is a typo, and you mean XC, then these rims look like good candidates. If you're building cyclocross wheels, you might want to take note of the max 40psi recommended tire pressure. How these Chinese manufacturers/resellers come up with these specs is anyone's guess. But even ignoring that, a high-ish pressure cross tire on a wide rim (more i for the p in psi) is going to cause significant de-tensioning of spokes.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

If he means CX, he should be referring to tubular rims.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

CX wasn't a typo, sorry to post a CX wheel question but I really don't get why 27mm, 28mm and even 30mm 29er rims aren't used more in CX with all the disc brake CX bikes. The psi recommendations are confusing. I've never run a CX tubeless tire as high as 40psi. The rims say max pressure 70psi and "recommended max pressure" 40psi (??). Like I said 40 is well within my needs. Gravel grinding would put me in the 50's so questionable. 
Oh, by the way, these would be mostly training and pit wheels with the ability to change tread easily. Race wheels are tubulars. Thanks for the input.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

What tape are you guys using for rims 25mm internal width?


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## Danish Dynamite (Sep 15, 2005)

Any tips for mounting tires on these rims? I cant get my 2.25 Maxxis Ikon and Nobby Nic on the LB asym rim with a 28mm internal width :-( it is too tight.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Got a link to those rims?


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## legitposter (Feb 16, 2015)

Danish Dynamite said:


> Any tips for mounting tires on these rims? I cant get my 2.25 Maxxis Ikon and Nobby Nic on the LB asym rim with a 28mm internal width :-( it is too tight.


its not too tight. Try harder. I also had a heck of a time mounting maxxis tires on a LB rim. You need to clamp one installed end of the tire with your knees and start working the other end with the tire lever.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Danish Dynamo said:


> Any tips for mounting tires on these rims? I cant get my 2.25 Maxxis Ikon and Nobby Nic on the LB asym rim with a 28mm internal width :-( it is too tight.
> 
> 
> legitposter said:
> ...


Are you having trouble getting it over the edge of the rim and in the bed? If so it helps to have 2 tire levers. Secure one on the spokes to hold it in place - you may also have to hold it with your hand. Use the other tire lever to work toward that one, pulling a little over the edge of the rim at a time, until you meet the other tire lever. If you are having trouble seating it in the bead channels, spray sides of tire with soap and water or wet good with Stans. Use a compressor and turn it to a high psi initially to get it started, just don't let it blow off the rim. I had some trouble with Maxxis Minion DH UST tires - really had to work with them the first time I mounted them. But it can be done.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> Got a link to those rims?


There are two different pages of mtb rim choices on their site.
carbon mountain bike rim-mountain bike rim,mountain rims,mtb rim,mtb rims,carbon mtb rim Light-Bicycle
I bought some and they've been working great and holding up very well.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Danish Dynamite said:


> Any tips for mounting tires on these rims? I cant get my 2.25 Maxxis Ikon and Nobby Nic on the LB asym rim with a 28mm internal width :-( it is too tight.


Soapy water in a spray bottle and two tire levers will be the ticket.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> What tape are you guys using for rims 25mm internal width?


I used this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00548QDZO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 on my 30mm internal width rims.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Danish Dynamite said:


> Any tips for mounting tires on these rims? I cant get my 2.25 Maxxis Ikon and Nobby Nic on the LB asym rim with a 28mm internal width :-( it is too tight.


Make sure that the part of the tire that is in the rim is inside the middle channel of rim. That will give you more slack.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

abelfonseca said:


> Make sure that the part of the tire that is in the rim is inside the middle channel of rim. That will give you more slack.


Also make sure you start on the side that is opposite the air valve so you have the most room


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Danish Dynamite said:


> Any tips for mounting tires on these rims? I cant get my 2.25 Maxxis Ikon and Nobby Nic on the LB asym rim with a 28mm internal width :-( it is too tight.





Ramjm_2000 said:


> Got a link to those rims?


+1 to see a link or other explanation for source of ASYM rim from LB. I can't find asym on their site and they've confirmed no asym available in response to two inquiries in past year.


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## joecx (Aug 17, 2013)

Andy13 said:


> Really like some of the rims on Carbon Fan website. Asymmetric light carbon 29er rims for possible CX build. Anybody with experience with these rims or this company. As dependable as Light Bicycle? Thanks.


For a 33mm cross tire 20 - 22mm internal is as wide as you should use.

Any wider the tire becomes U shaped (instead of rounded) and the sidewall don't flex as well causing a harsher ride.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

I'm with inertiaman...would love info on the aysm option.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

ditto - information on asym options from LB.


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## Rock Surf (Aug 28, 2010)

Andy13 said:


> ditto - information on asym options from LB.


They are live to chat right now. I've had a few questions about different rims and hub options and they've been really helpful.


----------



## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

Check post #368 and further in the LB 38mm rim topic:

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/new-light-bicycle-38mm-rims-941499-15.html


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

I've got about 3 years on a set of LB 29er carbon rims. Ive been very happy with them. I've followed this thread intermittently -- I know there is a ton of reading to be done here -- but maybe someone more on top of things here can make a recommendation:

I'm looking to lace up a set of light weight XC 27.5 rims for the wife's bike. She probably won't be running tires wider than 2.25" so I'm thinking around 25mm internal width should do.

Any recommendations on companies and or rim models would be appreciated.

thanks,
Charlie

Edit: this one is looking good. A little narrow.
XC 650B mountain bike hookless 27mm wide cross country rim tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

BartP said:


> Check post #368 and further in the LB 38mm rim topic:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/new-light-bicycle-38mm-rims-941499-15.html


Those posts are from July seems odd they haven't been released since they were supposed to be available 30 days after the post.


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## Jetmugg (Nov 14, 2012)

I've been away from the forum for a while - mostly focusing on road cycling, but lately I've been back on my MTB, and daydreaming about a pair of Chinese carbon wheels. I'm no stranger to the Chinese wheels & bike frames, having bought & built a CX bike and and MTB, along with 3 different sets of non-MTB wheels. I've used Hongfu, Dengfu, Light Bicycles, and I forget which other companies (a guy who used to go by the name of "Smart"?)

I know how the Chinese carbon "scene" has worked in the past - certain vendors get good reputations for reliability and quality, and those good vendors can change over time.

Who are the "good guys/gals" in the business right now. I'm interested in a fairly "basic" set of carbon 29'er wheels (tubeless compatible) from a good supplier. I tried getting caught up on this thread, but the 7,xxx posts are just too much.

Any friendly advice would be greatly appreciated.

Steve.


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## Danish Dynamite (Sep 15, 2005)

Sorry about the late reply. LB sent me the specs and this image for them and then I decided to buy.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

Jetmugg said:


> I've been away from the forum for a while - mostly focusing on road cycling, but lately I've been back on my MTB, and daydreaming about a pair of Chinese carbon wheels. I'm no stranger to the Chinese wheels & bike frames, having bought & built a CX bike and and MTB, along with 3 different sets of non-MTB wheels. I've used Hongfu, Dengfu, Light Bicycles, and I forget which other companies (a guy who used to go by the name of "Smart"?)
> 
> I know how the Chinese carbon "scene" has worked in the past - certain vendors get good reputations for reliability and quality, and those good vendors can change over time.
> 
> ...


I recently got a pair from Light Bicycle (fully built up) and it couldn't have gone any better.


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## Jetmugg (Nov 14, 2012)

That's good news, MTbiker040. Thank you. Which set of wheels did you buy?

Steve.


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

Jetmugg said:


> That's good news, MTbiker040. Thank you. Which set of wheels did you buy?
> 
> Steve.


RM29C07 All Mountain matte UD 32H
HUB-F Hope 40T PRO 2 EVO disc brake Black 100mm 15mm 32H
HUB-R Hope 40T PRO 2 EVO disc brake Black 142mm 12mm 32H SRAM XX1
SPOKE DT Competition black
NIPPLE DT SWISS DT Pro Loc Black Aluminum

these are the 35mm OD / 30mm ID


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

reamer41 said:


> I've got about 3 years on a set of LB 29er carbon rims. Ive been very happy with them. I've followed this thread intermittently -- I know there is a ton of reading to be done here -- but maybe someone more on top of things here can make a recommendation:
> 
> I'm looking to lace up a set of light weight XC 27.5 rims for the wife's bike. She probably won't be running tires wider than 2.25" so I'm thinking around 25mm internal width should do.
> 
> ...


Even when using some of the 2.25 tires, if they have rounded profiles, she would see very good traction increases from a 30mm ID rim. You could use front tire pressures under 15psi without getting sidewall rollover because of the increased support. It would be like she couldn't crash her bike. Any of the 35/30mm wheels from Lightbike or Carbonbicycle or XMSport will work with Sapim Laser spokes from Dans Comp with the free brass nipples.
I use that width in 29 with Bontrager XR1 Team 2.25s. Rims from Carbonbicycle. Zero problems.
HR735C 650B carbon mtb rim hookless mtb 27.5er rim 35mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

Hookless all mountain carbon rim 35mm wide for 29er &27.5er mountain bike - carbon rim (hookless) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike these rims are now 29mm ID and would be $360 shipped for a pair.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Danish Dynamite said:


> Sorry about the late reply. LB sent me the specs and this image for them and then I decided to buy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did they tell you the weight of rims?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

savo said:


> Is there some report on the "new design" 42mm wide rims?
> View attachment 1012646
> 
> Are the spoke holes directionally drilled? I bet they are not, but who knows.
> ...


I finished building up these rims that I got from Peter at xmcarbonspeed.com(HR942C 2015 Newest design 29er carbon hookless rim 42mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd) using bikehubstore's hubs and sapim laser spokes and sapim Polyax brass nipples. 
The wheels built up pretty easily like my previous chinese carbon rims. 
However, setting up the tubeless seemed less than ideal. I've tried 2 different tires(Geax Goma 29x2.4 and Maxxis Ardent 29x2.4 EXO TR and a on-one chunky monkey that I couldn't get to pop in place) and both tires are somewhat loose on the bead seat. Once I got the bead to pop into place. After deflating the tire it is really really easy to push the bead off the seat and back into the center channel. This is with the tire completely deflated so not sure if it would make a difference when the tire is inflated but it just makes me a little bit uneasy. Other than that I have only a few rides on them but they seem to be holding up ok so far.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

dgw7000 said:


> Did they tell you the weight of rims?


Did they give you a model name/number?


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## zoe07 (May 11, 2015)

reamer41 said:


> I've got about 3 years on a set of LB 29er carbon rims. Ive been very happy with them. I've followed this thread intermittently -- I know there is a ton of reading to be done here -- but maybe someone more on top of things here can make a recommendation:
> 
> I'm looking to lace up a set of light weight XC 27.5 rims for the wife's bike. She probably won't be running tires wider than 2.25" so I'm thinking around 25mm internal width should do.
> 
> ...


What do you think of this model?


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

zoe07 said:


> What do you think of this model?
> View attachment 1028208


Thanks, it looks good. Who's rim is that? Link?


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## RichardNZ (Nov 10, 2015)

Hello all. I'm considering purchasing a Trek top fuel 9.8 with DT X1700 boost hubs. I'm considering the following:

buy some carbon rims from LB XM CB or similar and lace them to the existing DT X1700 hubs and spokes. If I choose an aysemterical rim will I have issues with spoke lengths?

Are there any Chinese companies selling complete 29er carbon wheel sets with boost hubs? 27.5+ Boost wheels plus carbon wheels NSS HR740C 110x15/148x12 - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd Have a 27.5 wheel with boost and a Novatec hub. I'd prefer to find someone who can supply DT 240 boost hubs.

Regards Rich


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

You'd have to know the ERD and spoke length of your current rims, and the ERD of whatever rims you're considering buying.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

RichardNZ said:


> Hello all. I'm considering purchasing a Trek top fuel 9.8 with DT X1700 boost hubs. I'm considering the following:
> 
> buy some carbon rims from LB XM CB or similar and lace them to the existing DT X1700 hubs and spokes. If I choose an aysemterical rim will I have issues with spoke lengths?


You most likely are going to need new spokes, whether the rim is symmetrical or not. List said above, you can calculate it using the numbers (ERD and offset) of the rim you have and the rim you get.

Generally when replacing a rim you can consider new spokes and nipples part of the job, unless you got extremely lucky or happen to replace the exact same rim.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

zoe07 said:


> What do you think of this model?
> View attachment 1028208


I'd keep looking for a rim with a 30mm or so ID.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Also, it seems unnecessarily deep to me. Maybe I'm wrong.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

Got my wheelset ready, LB rim 29er 35mm OD, 30 ID, laced with DT revolution spokes, to DT 240s hubs with XD drive, my old hubs.
total weight 1475 without tape and valve.
the builder is Bing, he is home mechanic, found him from forum. He put 130 kgf on the spokes tension.
tomorrow will be the mayden voyage. excited ....
will put NN 2.35 front, 2.25 rear.
not sure the pressure yet, I am 175 - 180 lbs geared, with Ripley V1. prolly just put 25 psi first.


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

Dayum, that's nice and light.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

inter said:


> Got my wheelset ready, LB rim 29er 35mm OD, 30 ID, laced with DT revolution spokes, to DT 240s hubs with XD drive, my old hubs.
> total weight 1475 without tape and valve.
> the builder is Bing, he is home mechanic, found him from forum. He put 130 kgf on the spokes tension.
> tomorrow will be the mayden voyage. excited ....
> ...


Mine came in at 1420 grams. DT 350 hubs. 26ers Rule!


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

pb123hou said:


> Mine came in at 1420 grams. DT 350 hubs. 26ers Rule!


that's crazy light. 
what's the width?

It was a bit PITA to install the tires, I had to use lever from the beginning. Once installed, tubeless so easy.
Ended up with 22 psi rear / 18 psi front, as 25 psi seems so hard, too harsh.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

eb1888 said:


> I'd keep looking for a rim with a 30mm or so ID.


Thanks. 
Anyone know who has the lightest 30mm (Internal) rim for 27.5?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

pb123hou said:


> Mine came in at 1420 grams. DT 350 hubs. 26ers Rule!


1420g for a 26er, not that light IMHO

1475g for a 29er clincher is getting there though.

For the 55g penalty I think I'll stick with my 29er.

Fat Biker

P.S. If you wanna see some "light" setups head on over to weightweenies. Last time I checked someone was gonna build up a set of 26" disk wheels sub 1000g and that was months ago.


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## spikebike (Apr 26, 2007)

savo said:


> thanks for the useful info.
> I was thinking of ordering them with alternated hole pattern, and lacing them crossing the spokes, left side hole to right side flange and viceversa... but holes need to be correctly drilled for this!


Seems like a great idea to me. Somewhat like a boost148 like advantage for a normal 142x12 wheel.

After all boost148 moves the spoke flanges out by 3mm to have a better spoke angle.

Seems very similar to use offset spoke holes and take the right most holes to the left flange and vice versa.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

pb123hou said:


> Mine came in at 1420 grams. DT 350 hubs. 26ers Rule!


Until you measure Crr...


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

First ride this morning on my LB rims with DT 240s, I am impressed. now I know what stiff like, and solid, traction was awesome. Still using my old tires, 2.25 NN fr 18 psi, 2.0 Spec Fastrack 22 psi.
Landing after some jumps feel solid, small bump is so good. 
Durability is still unknown, but lots of good review, enough to convince me to try.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Fat Biker said:


> 1420g for a 26er, not that light IMHO
> 
> 1475g for a 29er clincher is getting there though.
> 
> ...


Notice that I said "350" hubs, as opposed to "240" hubs. If I had used to 240 hubs it would be even lighter than 1420. But, what can I say, it's a 26er, tried and true for a long time with great results, and doesn't mind getting into very tight and technical spots on the trails where maneuverability is key - but of course it all depends on the kind of riding and trails one likes to do.

My bike and my wheels love rocks, roots, jumps and drops all at high speeds (35mph +), I'm not sure how a 1000g wheel set would hold up.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Notice inter said "29er" not 26er ?
Seems a little unfair to compare a 26er weight to a 29er weight don't you think ? 

May not be as tough as a 1400g wheelset but I think you'd be more than surprised at what a 1000g wheelset could take. 



Fat Biker


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Fat Biker said:


> Notice inter said "29er" not 26er ?
> Seems a little unfair to compare a 26er weight to a 29er weight don't you think ?
> 
> May not be as tough as a 1400g wheelset but I think you'd be more than surprised at what a 1000g wheelset could take.
> Fat Biker


I am curious as to what components you would use to build a 1000 gram mtb wheelset on any siZe, or any sub 1200 grm wheelset. Not meaning to challenge you in any way, just genuinely curious.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Off the top of my head, the Enve XC tubular wheels are under 1100g.

Skyline AX.C - Laufräder aus dem Schwarzwald - tune.de

1225g for 29er wheels with 25mm inside width, 33mm outside.

And, while using very light hubs, there ARE lighter.

Skyline 3.C 650B : Wheelset- tune.de

Sub-1100g for 650B.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

pb123hou said:


> Notice that I said "350" hubs, as opposed to "240" hubs. If I had used to 240 hubs it would be even lighter than 1420. But, what can I say, it's a 26er, tried and true for a long time with great results, and doesn't mind getting into very tight and technical spots on the trails where maneuverability is key - but of course it all depends on the kind of riding and trails one likes to do.
> 
> My bike and my wheels love rocks, roots, jumps and drops all at high speeds (35mph +), I'm not sure how a 1000g wheel set would hold up.


you know this is 29er sub forum, right? 
so we talk about 29er stuff.

sure 26er wheel will be lighter, not surprising. I used to ride 26er too, with stan crest, I think they were like 1500 gr a set, good wheel, I never really felt they were flexy, I am not enduro enough, hahah.
but now I know what stiff like.

OK back on the subject.
I thought I wouldn't hear popping sound when inflating the tires, because the rims are hookless, but I did.


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## RichardNZ (Nov 10, 2015)

So I contacted Peter at XM carbon speed and Vivian at LB. I’m not sure if I should post their reply’s but I’d like your feedback (as some of you have purchased from both) and I’m new to the “cheap Chinese wheel market”. I’m also not rich enough to make any purchasing mistakes.

Just for your reference: I’m looking to replace the standard wheels that come on the 2016 Trek top fuel 9.8 (boost DT Swiss X1700) with something lighter, stiffer and faster.

Peter
“The best price for D-SS FHR930C Boost wheels built bup with DT 350s boost hubs for 110x15/148x12 for Shimano, Sapim CX-Delta spokes, Sapim nipples will be 720 USD/pair, if you want the rims drilled without spoke holes in rim bed, it will cost extra 5 USD

Weight will be around 1520+/- 30g/pair

And we just make HR933C asym rims with T700 for AM version, if you need 420g/piece XC version for the rims, we have to arrange T800 carbon fiber, but it will cost extra 15 USD/piece each.

HR933C T800 version XC rims as complete wheelset same combo as above will be 750 USD/pair

Weight will be around 1585+/-30g/pair

Shipping by EMS to NZ will cost 70 USD, and 4% commission to PayPal will be charged.”

I also e-mailed Vivian at Light Bicycle. I don’t have shipping costs or PP fees so I cannot compare apples with apples just yet. LB can supply Hope Boost hubs and alloy nipples with Black Pillar spokes.

Vivian 
“The RM29C06 is designed for XC riding, and the RM29C19 is for AM riding. Please find attached rim profiles.

Wheelset weight (with RM29C06 rims, Hope boost hubs): 1539+/-25g, USD823/pair
Wheelset weight (with RM29C19 rims, Hope boost hubs): 1609+/-25g, USD833/pair

-Rims: 29er rims, 32H. Rim weave in UD matte & 3k matte are more popular. Which do you prefer?
-Hubs: Black. Hope boost front 15*110mm/ rear 12*148mm. With freehub Shimano or Sram?
-Spokes: Black, Pillar aero or DT round competition spokes. DT is a little heavier but stronger.
-Nipples: Alloy or brass? Silver or black?

The manufacture lead time is around 15-20 days for wheels, and around 4-7 days to delivery.” 

Thoughts anyone?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

abelfonseca said:


> I am curious as to what components you would use to build a 1000 gram mtb wheelset on any siZe, or any sub 1200 grm wheelset. Not meaning to challenge you in any way, just genuinely curious.


Here ya go

Project Sub Kilo courtesy of Ole over on weightweenies









The rims weighed in at 239.2g and 241.2g.









Extralite 28h with ceramic bearings front. 89g hub, wheel weight 434g









28h Extralite prototype with two ceramic and two hybrid ceramic bearings rear. 170g hub, wheel weight 524g









With a mixture of Marwi 2.0 titanium spokes and Pillar 1422 steel.

There's even mention of sub 900g wheels on there :eekster:

Any way back to *29er* wheels.

Sorry folks 

Fat Biker


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

^^Insane! Thanks for the info Fat Biker.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

Hi RichardNZ,
I think both are good company, I would not worry too much.
I only have experience with LB, a bit slow on production, but good communication and product is excellent.

Summer is coming on your part or of the world, I would get from whoever can send you the fastest if I were you. assuming price & quality about the same.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Group ride on Saturday and a guy had LB wheelset on his bike. Rear had a crack straight through the carbon, he'd come up short on a 12' root to root jump. Last time he did it he broke non-drive side chain stay (Specialized Epic) running stock wheels. During the ride Saturday he broke a rear spoke in a low speed technical rock garden, tore tubeless tape and had to throw a tube in it. Gotta say, I've been lurking in this thread for a while now, but hearing about and seeing his issues on a wheelset bought this summer, I'm not impressed with these for New England riding. 

Was this unusual, or par for our area? The rider in question is definitely fast, races and was killing it at the end of our 65 mile ride while most of us were in survival mode. He's not a small XC guy, looks about the size of the bigger enduro guys like Keene. Which is to say, smaller than me...


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

yzedf said:


> Group ride on Saturday and a guy had LB wheelset on his bike. Rear had a crack straight through the carbon, he'd come up short on a 12' root to root jump. Last time he did it he broke non-drive side chain stay (Specialized Epic) running stock wheels. During the ride Saturday he broke a rear spoke in a low speed technical rock garden, tore tubeless tape and had to throw a tube in it. Gotta say, I've been lurking in this thread for a while now, but hearing about and seeing his issues on a wheelset bought this summer, I'm not impressed with these for New England riding.
> 
> Was this unusual, or par for our area? The rider in question is definitely fast, races and was killing it at the end of our 65 mile ride while most of us were in survival mode. He's not a small XC guy, looks about the size of the bigger enduro guys like Keene. Which is to say, smaller than me...


"he'd come up short on a 12' root to root jump. Last time he did it he broke non-drive side chain stay (Specialized Epic)"

12' jump on an Epic???


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

yzedf said:


> Group ride on Saturday and a guy had LB wheelset on his bike. Rear had a crack straight through the carbon, he'd come up short on a 12' root to root jump. Last time he did it he broke non-drive side chain stay (Specialized Epic) running stock wheels. During the ride Saturday he broke a rear spoke in a low speed technical rock garden, tore tubeless tape and had to throw a tube in it. Gotta say, I've been lurking in this thread for a while now, but hearing about and seeing his issues on a wheelset bought this summer, I'm not impressed with these for New England riding.
> 
> Was this unusual, or par for our area? The rider in question is definitely fast, races and was killing it at the end of our 65 mile ride while most of us were in survival mode. He's not a small XC guy, looks about the size of the bigger enduro guys like Keene. Which is to say, smaller than me...


that guy's on the wrong bike and wheels.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

meltingfeather said:


> that guy's on the wrong bike and wheels.


I think the bike and wheels are OK, the problem is that he should be doing XC and not Enduro/Freeride/DH


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Aglo said:


> I think the bike and wheels are OK, the problem is that he should be doing XC and not Enduro/Freeride/DH


well... not being one to tell someone else what type of riding they should be doing, I opted to frame it in terms of his equipment choice.
maybe I should have said he's on the wrong bike and wheels fo_r the type of riding he's doing_.
better?


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## RichardNZ (Nov 10, 2015)

X


inter said:


> Hi RichardNZ,
> I think both are good company, I would not worry too much.
> I only have experience with LB, a bit slow on production, but good communication and product is excellent.
> 
> Summer is coming on your part or of the world, I would get from whoever can send you the fastest if I were you. assuming price & quality about the same.


Thanks inter. 
Yes summer is on the way so I'm looking to modify a 2016 trek top fuel 9.8. Not much choice for carbon boost wheels yet. Regards rich


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## legitposter (Feb 16, 2015)

RichardNZ said:


> X
> Thanks inter.
> Yes summer is on the way so I'm looking to modify a 2016 trek top fuel 9.8. Not much choice for carbon boost wheels yet. Regards rich


There's many options. Its all about the hubs. Just pick an online wheelbuilder and some quality boost hubs like I9s or hope pro evo and you're done for less than $1500, carbon. Google.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Hadley, I9, Project 321, Sram, White Industries, Hope and some other Cheeper offerings all make boost hubs, Chris King not till spring and DT Feb.

I'm getting a set for my new 2016 Trek Fuel EX 9.9, Boost wheelset- NOX with Project321 hubs, cx ray spokes and Lilly Nipples. Asymmetrical rims make sense with boost hubs!!


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

keen said:


> "he'd come up short on a 12' root to root jump. Last time he did it he broke non-drive side chain stay (Specialized Epic)"
> 
> 12' jump on an Epic???


Length not height. Epic is a 100mm XC bike....


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

yzedf said:


> Length not height. Epic is a 100mm XC bike....


Hmmmn so you say the guy busted his Chinese carbon rims on a 12' long root to root jump. That he cased before and snapped the frame on his Epic. And your problem with the wheels is what exactly ????

Sounds like the guy needs to work on his bike handling skills more to "ride lighter" on his XC bike or he needs to get a more robust and forgiving bike. Unless of course busting frames and wheels is part and parcel of his weekly budget 

Personally I don't think 12' long jumps would come under my nor many other peoples mandate of XC anymore than a 12' drop to flat would.

Enduro maybe but not XC.

I could be wrong 

I don't think there's anything wrong with the wheels just peoples expectations of them. Just my 2¢.

Fat Biker


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Fat Biker said:


> Hmmmn so you say the guy busted his Chinese carbon rims on a 12' long root to root jump. That he cased before and snapped the frame on his Epic. And your problem with the wheels is what exactly ????
> 
> Sounds like the guy needs to work on his bike handling skills more to "ride lighter" on his XC bike or he needs to get a more robust and forgiving bike. Unless of course busting frames and wheels is part and parcel of his weekly budget
> 
> ...


I think he should get a Specialized Enduro. I used to have an 08' Epic, now I have an Enduro. I also have LB rims on it. I broke at least 8 spokes all at different times on the alloy stock rims and also dinged and bent them up a little. Now I can ride the way I want to and not worry about how aggressive or abusive I get with the Enduro and the LB rims.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

pb123hou said:


> I think he should get a Specialized Enduro. I used to have an 08' Epic, now I have an Enduro. I also have LB rims on it. I broke at least 8 spokes all at different times on the alloy stock rims and also dinged and bent them up a little. Now I can ride the way I want to and not worry about how aggressive or abusive I get with the Enduro and the LB rims.


Agree..
Epic only has 100 mm travel, not forgiving enough for doing 12' jump, put too much stress on the rims.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

The point was the first time he did it the stock wheels survived. The second time he did it (supposedly his training loop so it's a jump he makes most of the time) the rear carbon wheel didn't.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

yzedf said:


> The point was the first time he did it the stock wheels survived. The second time he did it (supposedly his training loop so it's a jump he makes most of the time) the rear carbon wheel didn't.


Meanwhile, we have no idea what happened between those two occasions, or how the actual jump went down. Hardly proof of anything.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Meanwhile, we have no idea what happened between those two occasions, or how the actual jump went down. Hardly proof of anything.


Hence my original question. I wasn't expecting a bunch of fanboy CSI responses, rather something along the lines of "yes they are fragile on sharp hits" or "nope, never heard of that before" to be honest. I thought it was odd because he didn't break a spoke. I also thought that it was odd that a crack straight through the carbon, without any of the frayed edges, that leaked Stan's for a bit, was still rideable by a big, strong, aggressive rider.


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

As the story goes: 
A machine built wheel will likely have a lot of unbalanced spoke tension. So when a rider cases a jump, the spokes are much more vulnerable to popping.
A hand built wheel on the other hand is much more sound. The equally balanced spoke tension will go a long way to protecting the wheel, but low pressure is low pressure and striking that rim on a sharp corner will have its effects. 
A carbon rim is strong. Real strong ........... until it hits that threshold when it gives up the goat. Aluminum bends & Carbon breaks. You can't get around that. Anyone getting into a cheap chinese carbon rim with an AM layup thinking that it'll be as durable as a well built Stan's Flow is living in a dream world.

Carbon rims are going to break. That's just reality. Cheap Chinese Carbon rims are going to break more often and for a couple reasons.
1) Quality control is a mystery. Eve and Derby have a lot invested in quality control. Direct sellers from overseas just simply don't. Take advantage of relatively cheap prices, but be willing to take some risk with it.
2) People on the interwebz are interested in inner width and weight and enter a magical faith based relationship with durability. Compare the rim profiles and you'll see that a DH rim from Enve has a 34mm outer width but a 25mm inner width. That's 4.5mm rim walls. The Light Bicycle DH rim has a 38mm outer width and a 31.6mm inner width. That's 3.2mm rim walls. Which one sounds more durable?


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

jm2e said:


> As the story goes:
> A machine built wheel will likely have a lot of unbalanced spoke tension. So when a rider cases a jump, the spokes are much more vulnerable to popping.
> A hand built wheel on the other hand is much more sound. The equally balanced spoke tension will go a long way to protecting the wheel, but low pressure is low pressure and striking that rim on a sharp corner will have its effects.
> A carbon rim is strong. Real strong ........... until it hits that threshold when it gives up the goat. Aluminum bends & Carbon breaks. You can't get around that. Anyone getting into a cheap chinese carbon rim with an AM layup thinking that it'll be as durable as a well built Stan's Flow is living in a dream world.
> ...


I can't speak for other Chinese rim manufacturers, but I'm not so sure that quality control is a mystery with Light Bicycle, and I guess you are assuming that because they are in China. A lot of cheap things do come from China, and those things are intended to be cheap, we all know that. Before I ordered carbon Chinese rims, I looked at forum posts and reviews going back to 2011 on LB rims. I looked on their website as they (LB) posted information over the years and still ongoing about changes to their manufacturing process, keeping up with the improvements made by the rest of the industry as changes in technology, machinery, knowledge through their own trial and error, became available. I have definitely read and seen pictures (and if I recall correctly, also seen videos) on their plant, equipment they use, and how they say it compares to other rim makers.

I have also noticed that LB appears to have very good customer service. They have been very friendly, responded quickly, and with thorough answers to any email I have sent to them. I have not had any problems with my rims so don't have any experience with requesting a warranty... but looking at forum posts and reviews over the last several years, you will find very few complaints about broken/damaged rims, and even far fewer unhappy customers, because in those cases where there were broken rims, posters have followed up with reports of new rims warrantied by LB, sometimes with free shipping, sometimes without - I guess it just depended on each specific situation.

We all know that most bicycles and parts are now made in Taiwan and or China, and I'm sure there is outsourcing between manufacturers in both countries. There are even rumors going around that certain major US bicycle sellers are having their carbon rims made by Light Bicycle, and I have noticed that many of the designs and technology changes have been eerily similar between LB products and major US sellers that are known to have products made in Taiwan/China. But as we all know, it comes down to price, if you can get something better, as good, or very close, then why pay top dollar when you can get it for a fraction of the price? Especially in the case (I know this isn't the case with Eve and Derby) where the US sellers are having those same rims/wheels (and many other products) made overseas, sticking their logo on them, and jacking up the price to sell to their customers.

It would be different if there is a big mystery concerning quality control, and in general of course there is with most Chinese products. But I don't believe that is the case with LB. There are simply too many people that have bought their rims (LB's) over the last several years with positive reviews and results, and they seem to be very open concerning and not hiding anything about their manufacturing process and quality control. For the record, the rims I ordered from LB are 33 outer width, 27 inner width, and 30 deep. I have used them at the DH parks, and on very rocky trails and very rooty XC and AM trails. I have found they are perfectly good enough for the tires I've been running 2.2 to 2.5, and I see no reason to go any wider just because it's the latest fad.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

The reason I went with LB was because of their good reputation. There other choices with cheaper price too, but still need more good record to convince me to get it. LB is by far the most popular Chinese carbon rim manufacture, at least on MTBR.

sure there are some failure out of thousands rims, that is expected. Enve / derby / ibis break too.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

I bought them once and never will again.


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

new 42mm wide carbon rim, all are reinforced, are you interested? 
NEW! Hookless 29er mtb 42mm wide AM/ENDURO carbon rims tubeless compatible - carbon rim (hookless) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

bktide said:


> new 42mm wide carbon rim, all are reinforced, are you interested?
> NEW! Hookless 29er mtb 42mm wide AM/ENDURO carbon rims tubeless compatible - carbon rim (hookless) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


Nope, not wide enough for me. I'm waiting for the 60mm wide rim. Of course that means I will need the frame that allows for wider axle and the fork that does also, so I will promptly run out and buy those too as soon as they are available.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

bktide said:


> new 42mm wide carbon rim, all are reinforced, are you interested?
> NEW! Hookless 29er mtb 42mm wide AM/ENDURO carbon rims tubeless compatible - carbon rim (hookless) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


I am looking for exactly something like this but in 30mm inner width. Most of us ride 2.2-2.4 tires. Beyond 30mm they start to square too much, since they were designed around narrower rim sizes. In a couple of years when newer tire designs are going to be based on wider rims, we can talk. Until then this rim has limited application.

Other than that, the rim looks ideal. Has all the bells and whistles except for actual user reports


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## legitposter (Feb 16, 2015)

CrozCountry said:


> I am looking for exactly something like this but in 30mm inner width. Most of us ride 2.2-2.4 tires. Beyond 30mm they start to square too much, since they were designed around narrower rim sizes. In a couple of years when newer tire designs are going to be based on wider rims, we can talk. Until then this rim has limited application.
> 
> Other than that, the rim looks ideal. Has all the bells and whistles except for actual user reports


+1, but you can't blame them for trying to cash in on a fad.


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## mtmiller (Nov 1, 2006)

bktide said:


> new 42mm wide carbon rim, all are reinforced, are you interested?
> NEW! Hookless 29er mtb 42mm wide AM/ENDURO carbon rims tubeless compatible - carbon rim (hookless) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


Width might be good for some 29+ applications.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

mtmiller said:


> Width might be good for some 29+ applications.


Don't + sizes need 40-50mm inner width?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

CrozCountry said:


> Don't + sizes need 40-50mm inner width?


Some guys on the 29+ section are doing OK with 35mm for the 3.0 Chupacabra. This rim also comes in 27.5 for 3.0 and 2.8 27.5+ tires. Unfortunately CB is still pricing shipping at $64 instead of $50 per pair.

If you lower shipping, please don't raise the rim price to offset it.

Still no problems with my very good quality 35/30mm CarbonBicycle rim.


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

eb1888 said:


> Some guys on the 29+ section are doing OK with 35mm for the 3.0 Chupacabra. This rim also comes in 27.5 for 3.0 and 2.8 27.5+ tires. Unfortunately CB is still pricing shipping at $64 instead of $50 per pair.
> 
> If you lower shipping, please don't raise the rim price to offset it.
> 
> Still no problems with my very good quality 35/30mm CarbonBicycle rim.


I have a nextie jungle fox 52/45mm wide front rim, and an Easton arc 30 rear rim on my rigid stache (built from frameset w/rigid fork) running chupas no prob. I can go lower pressures on the wider nextie, but the Easton arc 30 works well enough. 11-13psi front and 14-16rear, 185lbs geared up.

I went with the Easton arc 30 rear because it will accommodate both chupas and a regular 2.2-2.4 tire. All fall, I've been running a "normal" tire on the back and love it. Now that snow is coming, chupa is going on the back.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

Here is my LB 35 / 30 wheels, with LB logo decal. Originally I wanted batman or superman logo, but LB was charging $35 for it. 
LB logo is free.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

inter said:


> Here is my LB 35 / 30 wheels, with LB logo decal. Originally I wanted batman or superman logo, but LB was charging $35 for it.
> LB logo is free.
> 
> View attachment 1030373


The Batman logo might have been worth the $35.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

rfxc said:


> I went with the Easton arc 30 rear because it will accommodate both chupas and a regular 2.2-2.4 tire. All fall, I've been running a "normal" tire on the back and love it. Now that snow is coming, chupa is going on the back.


What do you find is the issue with a Chupa on the back year round? Noticeably more rolling resistance or some unique handling quirk of + size tires?

Given its low knob pattern and light casing, I would have thought it would roll pretty well, especially when run at the same pressure as a smaller tire or when run at lower pressure but in rough terrain.


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

TheKaiser said:


> What do you find is the issue with a Chupa on the back year round? Noticeably more rolling resistance or some unique handling quirk of + size tires?
> 
> Given its low knob pattern and light casing, I would have thought it would roll pretty well, especially when run at the same pressure as a smaller tire or when run at lower pressure but in rough terrain.


Weight. Xr2 2.2 is over half pound lighter. Xr2 spins up faster, and plenty of traction for my local xc stuff.

Can also slam the rear sliding dropouts forward to make stays super short with a 2.2 tire-- good times!

Also like how the smaller/normal rear tire helps slacken the steering, albeit very slightly.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

rfxc said:


> Weight. Xr2 2.2 is over half pound lighter. Xr2 spins up faster, and plenty of traction for my local xc stuff.
> 
> Can also slam the rear sliding dropouts forward to make stays super short with a 2.2 tire-- good times!
> 
> Also like how the smaller/normal rear tire helps slacken the steering, albeit very slightly.


Got it, thanks. I have been curious about how the real world + size user experiences are turning out, as most of the magazine reviews seem to fall on the extreme ends of the spectrum, or else simply say something vague like "they're promising for some riders".


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

rfxc said:


> Weight. Xr2 2.2 is over half pound lighter. Xr2 spins up faster, and plenty of traction for my local xc stuff.
> 
> Can also slam the rear sliding dropouts forward to make stays super short with a 2.2 tire-- good times!
> 
> Also like how the smaller/normal rear tire helps slacken the steering, albeit very slightly.


Are you using the 2.35 or the 2.2? Front and rear?

Looking for an Ikon-like tire.


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Are you using the 2.35 or the 2.2? Front and rear?
> 
> Looking for an Ikon-like tire.


Xr2 2.2 because it's what I had laying around. Rear only. Chupa on front. I did do a few laps with an xr3 2.3 front, also fun


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I've heard the XR2 team issue is one of the few tires made that is actually the stated width, or bigger. True?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

All of the Bontrager tires Team issue xr2, xr3, and xr4 are all true to size. The xr2 are light and do roll fast also the sidewalls are bomb proff. Right now I'm using xr4 2.30 front and Icon 2.35 rear hear on the East Coast many leaves down.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

TheKaiser said:


> Got it, thanks. I have been curious about how the real world + size user experiences are turning out, as most of the magazine reviews seem to fall on the extreme ends of the spectrum, or else simply say something vague like "they're promising for some riders".


They make riding much easier, great for beginners. For advanced riders it's more of a mixed bag. Great for wheelies.


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## Y-Jasmine (Sep 28, 2014)

Hi Guys,
I am here share some sales info of YOELEO 29er carbon tubular rims.
Original price is US$324.32 for 2pcs
Sales price now: US$269.99 for 2pcs
If this happen to be what you are looking for, then checkout below link:
29er Tubular Rims - 29er 30mm Wide Carbon MTB Mountain Bike Tubular Rims 30mm Yoeleo


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

yzedf said:


> Group ride on Saturday and a guy had LB wheelset on his bike. Rear had a crack straight through the carbon, he'd come up short on a 12' root to root jump. Last time he did it he broke non-drive side chain stay (Specialized Epic) running stock wheels. .
> 
> Was this unusual, or par for our area? The rider in question is definitely fast, races and was killing it at the end of our 65 mile ride while most of us were in survival mode. He's not a small XC guy, looks about the size of the bigger enduro guys like Keene. Which is to say, smaller than me...





keen said:


> "he'd come up short on a 12' root to root jump. Last time he did it he broke non-drive side chain stay (Specialized Epic)"
> 
> 12' jump on an Epic???


12 foot jumps on an XC rig with 100 mm of travel.:eekster:


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

ziscwg said:


> 12 foot jumps on an XC rig with 100 mm of travel.:eekster:


It's really no big deal, we used to do that on hard tails, when that's all their was. But... now that there are other options, I would never do something like that on a bike that's not meant to do it!


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Anyone have experience with these rims:
http://www.carbonbicycle.cc/proshow.php?cid=62&tid=49&id=226
Or carbonbicycle.cc in general?

I've only gone with LB so far.

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

I've got their older 35/30mm 29er rim, widest 26", 36/30.6 650B and 88/23mm road clinchers.

All in plenty of use, 32 spokes and setup tubeless. Good value for money.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

mhelander said:


> I've got their older 35/30mm 29er rim, widest 26", 36/30.6 650B and 88/23mm road clinchers.
> 
> All in plenty of use, 32 spokes and setup tubeless. Good value for money.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Thanks for the feedback...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

reamer41 said:


> Anyone have experience with these rims:
> http://www.carbonbicycle.cc/proshow.php?cid=62&tid=49&id=226
> Or carbonbicycle.cc in general?
> 
> ...


I built up a set of these recently, and after about a month blew up my rear wheel preriding at a race 30 mins before the start. At first, carbon bike said they would replace the rim for $60 shipping, now they want $160 as they thought it was a 'violent impact' that caused the rim to fail. I certainly rode the wheel hard, but I don't recall smashing anything hard enough to destroy the rim. I'm trying to argue with them to get a replacement, but it doesn't look good. I'd spend a bit more cash with LB for a better warranty if I were you. Regretting my decision going with these guys at the moment.


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## cosmin.mihai (Nov 26, 2015)

Hi guys,

What do you think about carbonspeedcycle? It is a store on eBay and i am surprised to see how many positive feedbacks they have, but not so many on forums. I sent them an email with my requests and i waiting for their reply so i can share with you their offer.
I am looking for 29er hookless, 30 inner with hopes or Dt 350. The specs are the same as other builders, so i am thinking that all of these companies have the same wheels manufacturer provider. Many of you will probably recommend light-bicycle for their reliability, but due the fact that i live in Romania they charge me 150$ only for shipping.
I am open to other options if you have so.

Thanks


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

cosmin.mihai said:


> What do you think about carbonspeedcycle? It is a store on eBay and i am surprised to see how many positive feedbacks they have, but not so many on forums.


Don't look too much into ebay reviews. They are based on the transaction, whether shipping was fast and item as described. If the rim blows out a couple of months later you will not see that in the reviews. Also when stores start getting bad reviews, they create new accounts. Many actually have more than one account at a time as a hedge.

Think about it, when is the last time you saw an ebay store with bad reviews?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

29er Carbon Mountain Bike Rims 35MM Wide 25MM Deep Hookless For Cross Country Yoeleo

Bring this wheel down in price by the same percentage to $277/pr. and you may find some takers. It would be worth it for some customer feedback.



Y-Jasmine said:


> Hi Guys,
> I am here share some sales info of YOELEO 29er carbon tubular rims.
> Original price is US$324.32 for 2pcs
> Sales price now: US$269.99 for 2pcs
> ...


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Also, the last set of Nexties I ordered came super-fast (compared to my last two), I think within two weeks from putting in the order until on my doorstep.


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

elsinore said:


> I built up a set of these recently, and after about a month blew up my rear wheel preriding at a race 30 mins before the start. At first, carbon bike said they would replace the rim for $60 shipping, now they want $160 as they thought it was a 'violent impact' that caused the rim to fail. I certainly rode the wheel hard, but I don't recall smashing anything hard enough to destroy the rim. I'm trying to argue with them to get a replacement, but it doesn't look good. I'd spend a bit more cash with LB for a better warranty if I were you. Regretting my decision going with these guys at the moment.


Just an update, these guys made good on the warranty for me. They are sending me a new rim for $52.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

elsinore said:


> I built up a set of these recently, and after about a month blew up my rear wheel preriding at a race 30 mins before the start. At first, carbon bike said they would replace the rim for $60 shipping, now they want $160 as they thought it was a 'violent impact' that caused the rim to fail. I certainly rode the wheel hard, but I don't recall smashing anything hard enough to destroy the rim. I'm trying to argue with them to get a replacement, but it doesn't look good. I'd spend a bit more cash with LB for a better warranty if I were you. Regretting my decision going with these guys at the moment.
> 
> 
> elsinore said:
> ...


That's good that they are now trying to make it right. But just thought I would mention that I've been riding very hard and aggressive on my LB rims for over 5 months now and they really don't even show any wear at all.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

reamer41 said:


> Anyone have experience with these rims:
> Hookless all mountain U-shape carbon rim 35mm wide for 29er &27.5er mountain bike - carbon rim (hookless) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike
> Or carbonbicycle.cc in general?
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, this company has cloned most of the Light Bicycle website. We have since updated some of our information. Most of that site has been copy/pasted directly from our site, and then some information/pictures are changed. We do not sell our rims to this company, but they may buy something of a similar size and look from others.

The challenge in dealing with trading companies is that they are typically sales people with little or no manufacturing experience, and they will sell products from many different vendors. Some of the products may work well, but expect the results to be varied...


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

light bicycle said:


> Unfortunately, this company has cloned most of the Light Bicycle website. We have since updated some of our information. Most of that site has been copy/pasted directly from our site, and then some information/pictures are changed. We do not sell our rims to this company, but they may buy something of a similar size and look from others.
> 
> The challenge in dealing with trading companies is that they are typically sales people with little or no manufacturing experience, and they will sell products from many different vendors. Some of the products may work well, but expect the results to be varied...


Say it ain't so!!!
Your products and your website are being copied by ruthless Chinese capitalists of questionable moral character to make an easy buck (or yen, as the case may be)?
As we say 'round these parts, "what goes around comes around."


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

cough: Yuan :cough.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

yzedf said:


> Group ride on Saturday and a guy had LB wheelset on his bike. Rear had a crack straight through the carbon, he'd come up short on a 12' root to root jump. Last time he did it he broke non-drive side chain stay (Specialized Epic) running stock wheels. During the ride Saturday he broke a rear spoke in a low speed technical rock garden, tore tubeless tape and had to throw a tube in it. Gotta say, I've been lurking in this thread for a while now, but hearing about and seeing his issues on a wheelset bought this summer, I'm not impressed with these for New England riding.
> 
> Was this unusual, or par for our area? The rider in question is definitely fast, races and was killing it at the end of our 65 mile ride while most of us were in survival mode. He's not a small XC guy, looks about the size of the bigger enduro guys like Keene. Which is to say, smaller than me...


There is quite a range in rim offerings, it sounds like your friend needs a more gravity inspired wheelset! We update the current rims and release new models every year. We also offer versions with sidewall reinforcement etc. Our rims are steadily improving with feedback from our valuable customers and factory improvements. If you email us with a description of your riding style, ability, weight, bike etc. It will be easier for us to make a recommendation to you.

Thank You,

- Light Bicycle


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> cough: Yuan :cough.


They uh... finance through Japanese banks to uh.... take advantage of tax shelters... yeah, that's it!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

pb123hou said:


> I can't speak for other Chinese rim manufacturers, but I'm not so sure that quality control is a mystery with Light Bicycle, and I guess you are assuming that because they are in China. A lot of cheap things do come from China, and those things are intended to be cheap, we all know that. Before I ordered carbon Chinese rims, I looked at forum posts and reviews going back to 2011 on LB rims. I looked on their website as they (LB) posted information over the years and still ongoing about changes to their manufacturing process, keeping up with the improvements made by the rest of the industry as changes in technology, machinery, knowledge through their own trial and error, became available. I have definitely read and seen pictures (and if I recall correctly, also seen videos) on their plant, equipment they use, and how they say it compares to other rim makers.
> 
> I have also noticed that LB appears to have very good customer service. They have been very friendly, responded quickly, and with thorough answers to any email I have sent to them. I have not had any problems with my rims so don't have any experience with requesting a warranty... but looking at forum posts and reviews over the last several years, you will find very few complaints about broken/damaged rims, and even far fewer unhappy customers, because in those cases where there were broken rims, posters have followed up with reports of new rims warrantied by LB, sometimes with free shipping, sometimes without - I guess it just depended on each specific situation.
> 
> ...


Thank you or the kind words pb123hou. We take quality control very seriously and invest a lot of time, effort, and money to steadily improve our products. We are a stable manufacturer and are striving to offer the best value we can, not necessarily the lowest price. As with any product, there will be some positive and some negative feedback, but know that we take the feedback seriously.

In 2016, we will be sharing more about our company than we have in the past which should help with any confusion about us


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## Y-Jasmine (Sep 28, 2014)

Thank you for the suggestion. It is worth a try.
Do you think 35mm wide 25mm deep hookless will be more popular?
There is a plan of promotion for some wider like 42mm wide or 50mm wide, it is kind of 29ER+



eb1888 said:


> 29er Carbon Mountain Bike Rims 35MM Wide 25MM Deep Hookless For Cross Country Yoeleo
> 
> Bring this wheel down in price by the same percentage to $277/pr. and you may find some takers. It would be worth it for some customer feedback.


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

The key truth is CB sells different specification mountain bike carbon rims from LB with competitive prices,especially the asymmetric hookless carbon rims and 42mm wide carbon rims.So the customers have more choices for what they like.


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## spikebike (Apr 26, 2007)

bktide said:


> The key truth is CB sells different specification mountain bike carbon rims from LB with competitive prices,especially the asymmetric hookless carbon rims and 42mm wide carbon rims.So the customers have more choices for what they like.


I have a question about your spoke hole drilling. Your "Centered(B)" pattern shows alternating holes closer to each edge. How are they drilled?

Are the holes closer to the right edge drilled to go to the right hub flange and the holes closer to the left edge drilled to the left hub flange?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> __
> https://flic.kr/p/wDB7E3
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
> 
> Too bad we've had 8" of rain in the past two days. Trails are soup, so I'll have to wait to try them out.:madman:


Update from the above picture::thumbsup:

I've been thrashing these wheels now for a full 4 months on both the HT and my JET 9 fully. I've raced the wheels in several XC race events, and done hundreds of singletrack miles with them. Currently on hold until the freeze/thaw cycle dips low enough to freeze our dirt. Temps have suddenly risen into the 40's and 50's every day now which means it's a muddy mess until Old Man Winter keeps it under 30 degrees. Ah, back to the road bike...

Anyway - I love the rims/wheels built courtesy of Mike Curiak at LaceMine29.com! These rims beef up the Racing Ralph 2.35's just perfectly for a footprint that hooks up in the conditions where I ride - and provides some excellent velcro like cushion.



__
https://flic.kr/p/Bq56Do
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



__
https://flic.kr/p/AUFTQA
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



__
https://flic.kr/p/BiFWrV
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

jm2e said:


> As the story goes:
> A machine built wheel will likely have a lot of unbalanced spoke tension. So when a rider cases a jump, the spokes are much more vulnerable to popping.
> A hand built wheel on the other hand is much more sound. The equally balanced spoke tension will go a long way to protecting the wheel, but low pressure is low pressure and striking that rim on a sharp corner will have its effects.
> A carbon rim is strong. Real strong ........... until it hits that threshold when it gives up the goat. Aluminum bends & Carbon breaks. You can't get around that. Anyone getting into a cheap chinese carbon rim with an AM layup thinking that it'll be as durable as a well built Stan's Flow is living in a dream world.
> ...


As a Clyde, my MikeC 36h Flow wheel set was not as durable as my ENVEs even accounting for the ENVE nipple issue. All my alloy 29er wheels would detension every two months riding in rocky terrain. No issues with strong alloy 26 wheels. Bending, breaking or detensioning is still failure. Alloy wheels will break, that is a reality. In fact every part on a bike will fail eventually.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

spikebike said:


> I have a question about your spoke hole drilling. Your "Centered(B)" pattern shows alternating holes closer to each edge. How are they drilled?Are the holes closer to the right edge drilled to go to the right hub flange and the holes closer to the left edge drilled to the left hub flange?


Yes, we are using vertical drilling usually.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Has anyone tried selling their used light-bicycle with Novatec wheels locally?

I'm curious to know how much they're worth.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Hi,

I'm finally going to lace my "cheap" chinese carbon rims, and my best deal on Sapim Race 2.0/1.8 spokes don't come in the size I needed to lace them 2cross, my next best deal is DT Revolution 2.0/1.5.
I weight 80Kg (~176lbs) fully equipped and ride a FS AM 120mm. I'm not an overly aggressive rider, but i do some air and ride in some rock gardens.
So, have someone used the DT's in this configuration?
What is your 2cent on this?

Thx.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

How about spokes from Dan's Comp? They come in any length you need for less than anywhere else. I got black sapim double butted for like a buck a spoke. They're great.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

They don't ship to Portugal.
I could could have them shipped to a friend that lives in Northern Ireland, but even then, the time and the extra postage make them less attractive.
But I got really hooked on the possibility of saving an extra 100g, as long as the wheels durability don't get compromised, hence my question.


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Or you can look at Wheelsmith DB14's. See if Wheels Manufacturing will ship to you. I just picked up 70 DB14's for $50 shipped.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

thx for the tip.

My other two wheelsets have Wheelsmith spokes and if I could I would keep using them, never broke a spoke and I have deflect some airborne rocks and snapped some branches with them. But here in Europe they are hard to get and not cheap.
Just checked Wheels Manufacturing and they don't have the quantity in the length that I need. Is this the cosmos telling me to just go 3cross :/...

P.S.- and the shipping cost to europe is a deal breaker.


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

CB hookless carbon rims with 35mm and 40mm wide for 27.5er/29er are on sale,only $145/pcs and $155/pcs.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I've recently built up a set of 28H carbon rims (LB RM29C07, MTB180/270, laser spokes). I'd have to say the LB rims were excellent in terms of quality and fit. I'd have no problem recommending them to anyone. Although it did take 3 weeks for them to get here.


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## spikebike (Apr 26, 2007)

bktide said:


> Yes, we are using vertical drilling usually.


Ah, that would explain all the photos where the nipple doesn't align with the spoke.


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

sorry,maybe I express unclearly last time, we using vertical drilling usually, but for 42mm wide rim there is a +/-7 degree angle. and you can see the pictures of our 42mm wide wheels.


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## ChanceG (Nov 17, 2014)

Does anybody have a spare 29er carbon rim they would like to sell before I order one to get built up? Would prefer a 30mm but will take a 27mm or 35mm 
Lmk 
Chance


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

bktide said:


> sorry,maybe I express unclearly last time, we using vertical drilling usually, but for 42mm wide rim there is a +/-7 degree angle. and you can see the pictures of our 42mm wide wheels.


What rim model is shown in the photos you attached? The 42mm rims on your website (model CBRM29H09) have several photos that clearly show a rim *without* the spoke hole reinforcements.

Are the photos on the website wrong? Or are the photos above wrong?

Do any of your narrower asymmetric 29er rims (in 30, 32 or 35mm widths) have the reinforced spoke holes?


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> What rim model is shown in the photos you attached? The 42mm rims on your website (model CBRM29H09) have several photos that clearly show a rim *without* the spoke hole reinforcements.
> 
> Are the photos on the website wrong? Or are the photos above wrong?
> 
> Do any of your narrower asymmetric 29er rims (in 30, 32 or 35mm widths) have the reinforced spoke holes?


They are different rims, the photos attached is model CBRM29H07.(NEW! Hookless 29er mtb 42mm wide AM/FR carbon rims tubeless compatible - carbon rim (hookless) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike)

Regarding the asymmetric rims, we have 30, 32 and 35mm widths,but without reinforced spoke holes. you can see the details at: MTB Asymmetric rim


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## California_Dave (May 30, 2013)

Here is yet another cheap Chinese carbon rim defect.......









Note: For those who don't get the sarcasm, this is an Enve wheel that was part of a bike review for a mountain bike magazine.

The Review | Dream Bike: Canyon Spectral CF Custom | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

California_Dave said:


> (...)
> 
> Note: For those who don't get the sarcasm, this is an Enve wheel that was part of a bike review for a mountain bike magazine.


For a moment there you had me doubt my eyes ...


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

California_Dave said:


> Here is yet another cheap Chinese carbon rim defect.......
> 
> View attachment 1042700
> 
> ...


I was getting ready to say "That's what you get for putting ENVE stickers on it"


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

bktide said:


> CB hookless carbon rims with 35mm and 40mm wide for 27.5er/29er are on sale,only $145/pcs and $155/pcs.


Bummer I bought a set just before they went on sale. 
Nice rims, though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Built up my wife's wheels today. 

Carbonbicycle.cc 27.5 29mm internal, hookless rims, 240s rear hub, Extralite front, Spain Laser spokes w/alu nips. 

Built up easy and came out nice!

Weights without tape or valve stems

589 front 779 rear
1368g for the pair. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

reamer41 said:


> Built up my wife's wheels today.
> 
> Carbonbicycle.cc 27.5 29mm internal, hookless rims, 240s rear hub, Extralite front, Sapim Laser spokes w/alu nips.
> 
> ...


Sounds good except for the aluminum nips will need seasonal inspection for galvanic corrosion and likely replacement after two seasons. ENVE now only uses 10mm(weight saving) brass nipples for this reason. $.52ea on their site. Aluminum voids their warranty.
I use the free ones from Dans.


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

Has anyone tried the "newer" fat bike light bike rims yet? I'm eyeing a set for my bucksaaw


Sent from my iPhone


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

eb1888 said:


> Sounds good except for the aluminum nips will need seasonal inspection for galvanic corrosion and likely replacement after two seasons. ENVE now only uses 10mm(weight saving) brass nipples for this reason. $.52ea on their site. Aluminum voids their warranty.
> I use the free ones from Dans.


Yeah, I'm aware of the alu nipple issue. Have had them on my bike (with LB rims) for 3+ years and so far they're holding up well.

I un-built a wheel to harvest the 240s hub. It had been built with alu nips and a WTB i23 and those nipples had a bit of corrosion on them as well. That wheel was 4.5 years old but had seen little actual use.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

reamer41 said:


> Yeah, I'm aware of the alu nipple issue. Have had them on my bike (with LB rims) for 3+ years and so far they're holding up well.
> 
> I un-built a wheel to harvest the 240s hub. It had been built with alu nips and a WTB i23 and those nipples had a bit of corrosion on them as well. That wheel was 4.5 years old but had seen little actual use.


It sounds like you're safe. Some suggest using Stans for tubeless has an impact on the galvanic corrosion. i23s are aluminum and aren't comparable for this issue with carbon rims.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

Any opinions on Asian cycle express? Looking for a carbon asym 27.5 rim, AM/END layup, prefer 26-28 id. Open to suggestions but the Asian cycle express looks real nice. New light bicycle looks good but a pair is over $600 shipped, I know LB is the most reputable but is it worth an extra $200?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Check Xiamen Carbon Speed, I got a pair of theirs 29er asymmetric rims HR933C for 390$ last year, shipping included.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

Aglo said:


> Check Xiamen Carbon Speed, I got a pair of theirs 29er asymmetric rims HR933C for 390$ last year, shipping included.


How have they been holding up? Website looks a little low key


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

I got a promotional email update from Light Bicycle yesterday about their asymmetrical rims:



We are proud to release our new 34mm wide 27.5" and 29" asymmetrical rims!

The 28mm internal width is perfect for 2.3-2.4" tires, and the oversized 3mm wide hookless lips offer increased impact protection. The asymmetrical U-shaped profile creates an incredibly durable wheel with more balanced spoke tension.



In Stock!
27.5" - AM728
$259.00
Buy Now

Ships within 2 days!
Asymmetrical
UD Matte Finish
Bead Lock
Angled Holes
New Graphics
Replaceable Decals
2 Year Crash Replacement


In Stock!
29" - AM928 
$269.00
Buy Now
LB goes exclusive!

Light Bicycle is no longer offering carbon bars, frames, bottle cages or seat posts. After careful consideration, we have decided it was best to focus on the carbon rim and hand built wheel market. Carbon rims have always been our passion and our strength. We are are committed to manufacturing the best rims possible and providing superior customer service.




Tubeless Tape and Valves 

We are now offering lightweight tubeless tape and valves. The anodized alloy valves feature a patented concave collar with a rubber o-ring to protect your carbon rims and seal out water. 

Click here to check them out!

Product Development

We've come a long way since our first carbon rim (30mm wide 29") came off the press back in March 2011! We are looking forward to many new exciting projects in 2016 and will continue to develop some of the best carbon rims available. 

Click here to vote for your favourite new project! 
Instagram
Facebook
Website


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

mtbiker040 said:


> I got a promotional email update from Light Bicycle yesterday about their asymmetrical rims:


Got the same email.
Had to lol at the "patented" tubeless valve. :skep:


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> Got the same email.
> Had to lol at the "patented" tubeless valve. :skep:


haha I didn't notice that but that is funny, nice that they offer it anyway! also kind of cool that they decided to focus on wheels only.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

I have a set of these on order, very excited to lace em up


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

obs08 said:


> How have they been holding up? Website looks a little low key


The rims are solid and holding up pretty good, I chose them because at the time they were the only ones with that design, the walls and the nipple seat are 3.5mm thick, and are asymmetric. To me that was a no brainer.
Oh, and I chose the version without internal nipple holes.
Yes the site is in need of a revamp, but they are ok, just talk to Peter.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Do you guys think asymmetrical rims make a big difference?
I have the LB 35mm rims and they have been great so far.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

jacksonlui said:


> Do you guys think asymmetrical rims make a big difference?
> I have the LB 35mm rims and they have been great so far.


Ok, I will tell the truth, it's not something I will notice in the trails, but the wheels are indeed strong.
The balance in the spokes tension went from 57% to 72% up front, and from 64% to 82% in the back.
And this is what matter, the wheel is strong if the tension is the same on both sides.
In the end your wheel will perform better. How much better?
I don't know. But going by numbers, the tension balance in my front wheel is 15% better, and 18% better on me rear wheel.

IMO in carbon rims this is completely overshadowed by the stiffness the rim itself. Probably if someone have an asymmetric carbon rim and a similar normal carbon rim, he/she can try to quantify this in the trail, and in the lab.

If I have the option I will chose an asymmetric rim, but I will not lose a night of sleep over it.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I'd agree that a balanced wheel will make for a stronger wheel but most of the tension while riding is on the drive side which would make having higher tension on the NDS less important right?


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

jacksonlui said:


> I'd agree that a balanced wheel will make for a stronger wheel but most of the tension while riding is on the drive side which would make having higher tension on the NDS less important right?


Tension and torque are to different things.

Your lacing pattern, more specifically the angle at which the spokes exit the hub, is what counteracts the force applied by the drivetrain.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

meltingfeather said:


> Got the same email.
> Had to lol at the "patented" tubeless valve. :skep:


We did not say "patented tubeless valve", we said "The anodized alloy valves feature a patented concave collar with a rubber o-ring to protect your carbon rims and seal out water."

It is the collar that has a unique concave shape on one side so that the o-ring rests inside. When you tighten the collar, the o-ring swells as it should, but is contained uniformly within the collar. It's a subtle detail but worth mentioning as this has been a frustration for some riders.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

A more balanced spoke tension side to side will make the wheel last longer. It's a typical problem for the higher tension spokes to get longer creating a dish, which is where the rim naturally wants to be.

Whether it's the drive side or not matters little. There is almost no flex in the hub, so the torque is passes pretty evenly from both sides. Speaking of, there is much higher torque braking than pedaling.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

Coming off Sun-Ringle Charger Pro 29er wheels (22.8mm inner width, 28mm outer width, 22mm tall profile), I'm in the process of building up a Kona Process 111. I have the option of going with the boring Hope Pro 4/ Stans Flow EX combo or for a few hundred more I can build up one of the LB carbon rims on Hope Pro 4s. I'm 225 lb, like to run pressures in the 24 psi F / 29 psi R range and have a couple of dings on the rear rim to prove I like to ride hard, and would love to drop to even lower pressures. I'll be most likely running 2.4/2.25 Ardents or something similar, question now to you folks is which LB rim suits me best?


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

Kindly take note that most Chinese factories will have a holiday from Feb 3th to 17th for Spring Festival


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

eurospek said:


> Coming off Sun-Ringle Charger Pro 29er wheels (22.8mm inner width, 28mm outer width, 22mm tall profile), I'm in the process of building up a Kona Process 111. I have the option of going with the boring Hope Pro 4/ Stans Flow EX combo or for a few hundred more I can build up one of the LB carbon rims on Hope Pro 4s. I'm 225 lb, like to run pressures in the 24 psi F / 29 psi R range and have a couple of dings on the rear rim to prove I like to ride hard, and would love to drop to even lower pressures. I'll be most likely running 2.4/2.25 Ardents or something similar, question now to you folks is which LB rim suits me best?


I weigh about 15 pounds less and have been beating on a set of LB rims for 3+ years. At the time they were "wider 29er rims" but they're not very wide by today's standards. Maybe 25mm internal. I run the same tires you note and use about 25/30 psi.

Last month I laced some 29mm internal 27.5 hoops for the wife's bike. Very nice! I can ride her bike with Ardent 2.25s at much lower pressure than I can my own bike with my narrower rims.

I would strongly recommend the carbon hoops over the Stan's -- you will notice the improvement in tracking and steering.

I would also suggest the 465g rims over the 420 -- I'm assuming they'll be stronger.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

eurospek said:


> Coming off Sun-Ringle Charger Pro 29er wheels (22.8mm inner width, 28mm outer width, 22mm tall profile), I'm in the process of building up a Kona Process 111. I have the option of going with the boring Hope Pro 4/ Stans Flow EX combo or for a few hundred more I can build up one of the LB carbon rims on Hope Pro 4s. I'm 225 lb, like to run pressures in the 24 psi F / 29 psi R range and have a couple of dings on the rear rim to prove I like to ride hard, and would love to drop to even lower pressures. I'll be most likely running 2.4/2.25 Ardents or something similar, question now to you folks is which LB rim suits me best?


the 35mm/30mm but do the 32 hole, I have the same ones and they have been ridden hard for 4 months and are still perfectly true! I'm 180lbs without gear and ride some gnarly downhills and they are perfect!


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

eurospek said:


> Coming off Sun-Ringle Charger Pro 29er wheels (22.8mm inner width, 28mm outer width, 22mm tall profile), I'm in the process of building up a Kona Process 111. I have the option of going with the boring Hope Pro 4/ Stans Flow EX combo or for a few hundred more I can build up one of the LB carbon rims on Hope Pro 4s. I'm 225 lb, like to run pressures in the 24 psi F / 29 psi R range and have a couple of dings on the rear rim to prove I like to ride hard, and would love to drop to even lower pressures. I'll be most likely running 2.4/2.25 Ardents or something similar, question now to you folks is which LB rim suits me best?


Hello Europspek,

The EN928 rim has extra reinforcement and is in stock. If you like the width, these would be a great option.

AM928 asymmetric rim profile carbon 29 inch mountain rims Light-Bicycle

You can also buy the 38's and choose the Heavy Duty version once you hit the "Buy Now" button on the page. These are slightly wider and deeper than the EN928's so they would be stiffer. Impact resistance is pretty similar between these 2 rims.

carbon 29er mtb rims 38mm wide hookless tubeless compatible strongest Light-Bicycle

The RM29C07 isn't going to have as much impact resistance or stiffness as the other 2 rims I mentioned. For your weight and aggressive riding style, the other 2 are more suitable.

Thank you,


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

light bicycle, do you have a narrower asymmetrical rim in the works? 28 - 30mm . The 34mm is just too wide for xc racing duties. thanks


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It depends on where you ride too, I did a trip to Phoenix a few months back (I used to live in AZ) and the rocks kicked up riding in tech places can make some nasty dings in your rims, as well as sharp rocks on the sides of the trail. Skinnier will minimize this and put more distance between your edges and the ground if you are running lower pressure. While you can go wide, 35 is pretty wide.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

adinpapa said:


> light bicycle, do you have a narrower asymmetrical rim in the works? 28 - 30mm . The 34mm is just too wide for xc racing duties. thanks


Yes, we have several new rims coming out after Chinese New Year (~3 weeks) and some are narrower and more XC/Trail friendly.


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## stinkyto (Feb 17, 2010)

I need some help. I don't post often but lurk a lot.
I am going to be upgrading my instinct to XX1 and as such also have the opprotunity to change wheelsets (because of the need for XD and I have non-changable xt hubs)
I am going with LB Wheelset and this is where I need the help.
My dream build is CX-Ray spokes with DTSwiss 240's on LB 30mm wide hookless rims.
quote is just under $1000USD
Their stock build is pillar aero spokes, Nova teach 771 and 772 hubs on LB 30mm wide hookless rims. quote is just over $550USD
and their "claimed" weights are within 50grams of each other. 1500gr and 1550gr
SO the questions is.....
is there a $500 difference in quality/durability/serviceablity between them. I have owned neither type of hub or spoke before.

Thanks


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

stinkyto said:


> I need some help. I don't post often but lurk a lot.
> I am going to be upgrading my instinct to XX1 and as such also have the opprotunity to change wheelsets (because of the need for XD and I have non-changable xt hubs)
> I am going with LB Wheelset and this is where I need the help.
> My dream build is CX-Ray spokes with DTSwiss 240's on LB 30mm wide hookless rims.
> ...


I'd go DT350s, little more weight same internals as far as I know.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

stinkyto said:


> I need some help. I don't post often but lurk a lot.
> I am going to be upgrading my instinct to XX1 and as such also have the opprotunity to change wheelsets (because of the need for XD and I have non-changable xt hubs)
> I am going with LB Wheelset and this is where I need the help.
> My dream build is CX-Ray spokes with DTSwiss 240's on LB 30mm wide hookless rims.
> ...


The DT 350 hubs have great value and are more reliable than the Novatec hubs. The DT 240 hubs have stainless bearings and more machining so they are lighter than 350's but still have great value and are an upgrade to your XT's. The 240 and 350 hubs use the same star ratchet system, freehub bodies, and share the same end caps as well.


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## oldhack (Dec 25, 2014)

Hi Light bicycle. When can I purchase a wheelset from you with the new Hope Pro 4 hubs? They are not yet listed on the website.
Thanks.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

As for the Pillar vs CX Ray question, I was recommended Pillar 1420 over CX Ray by a local wheelbuilding guru/artist/magician. I built the up myself on LB 35mm hookless 27.5", and they have held up 1.5 seasons with trail riding and enduro racing.


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## fathomer (Apr 24, 2012)

After a bit of build advice. 

Dropped off my LB 35mm rims and DT Swiss hubs last night at the builders and he asked weather I wanted 2 or 3 cross? I'm not sure to be honest so wondered what other people have gone with or recommended?

Edit: These are 650b rims, didn't realise I was in the 29er section, sorry!


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Looking forward to seeing new asymmetric offerings. Seems to be a good idea for any wheel - Road, MTB and CX.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

fathomer said:


> After a bit of build advice.
> 
> Dropped off my LB 35mm rims and DT Swiss hubs last night at the builders and he asked weather I wanted 2 or 3 cross? I'm not sure to be honest so wondered what other people have gone with or recommended?


If that builder is any good he should tell you what he recommends for this combo.

It depends how many spokes you have, those rims come in many drilling options.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Andy13 said:


> Looking forward to seeing new asymmetric offerings. Seems to be a good idea for any wheel - Road, MTB and CX.


Not sure about road, aerodynamics come into play and an asymmetric rim can cause a side force or steering force. Also front hubs on road bikes are symmetric (assuming no disc brakes), so there is no point there.

But generally yes, there is no reason to have a symmetric rim on a mountain bike that I can think of. Cost should be the same for aluminum and carbon, its just a different mold/extrusion. Once everyone upgrade their tooling we will probably not see high end symmetric disc rims anymore in a few years.
But manufacturers have a lot of investment in tooling, so it will take a complete product cycle or two to get rid of this legacy.

What I do want to see is prices go down. Currently Light Bicycle is charging a premium for asymmetric, because they can. More competition and prices will get back to what they used to be.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

oldhack said:


> Hi Light bicycle. When can I purchase a wheelset from you with the new Hope Pro 4 hubs? They are not yet listed on the website.
> Thanks.


We have them on order and they are supposed to be here late February/Early March. You could check back with us later this month. Alternatively you could purchase a Pro 2 wheelset and just specify that you want us to wait to build on Pro 4's in the checkout notes. We check these notes carefully on each order.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

For all you asymmetric geeks, Nextie has loads of sizes and way cheaper than Light Bicycle, around $100 less per rim.

Nextie Asymmetric


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

CrozCountry said:


> For all you asymmetric geeks, Nextie has loads of sizes and way cheaper than Light Bicycle, around $100 less per rim.
> 
> Nextie Asymmetric


Not bad : Asymmetric AM / Enduro 33mm Width Carbon Fiber 29" MTB Clincher Rim Hookless shipped to USA for $373 might be my new wheel build.
Or the Asymmetric Cross Country 28mm Width 22mm internal for $353 shipped


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Nextie options looks good, I'm rolling on a set currently. Light Bicycle seems to get a lot of play in the thread lately, glad to see Nextie is still in the game.
Do you know if the holes are angled or straight? I do believe Light Bicycle angles the holes in their asymmetrical rims. 
Don't know that it's worth the extra coin they currently cost.
That extra width in the rim lip thickness is a big plus in my book, much less likely to cut through the tire bead causing a pinch flat, and makes a sturdier hoop.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Agreed CrozCountry. Road rim brake front there is no reason for asymmetrical rims. Thanks for the Nextie link, some nice options.


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

Guys is there a "healthy" recap of what is the most "wise" move to pull with this nipple dilemma.. Brass vs alloy. I am building chinese carbon rims with some hope pro 4 hubs and wonder if i should go alloy or brass. Ordered sapim d-light spokes.. 

Thanks for answer


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

I use alu nips for years on alu rims, with tubeless setup, never have any problem. now with carbon rim, still using alu nips, no problem so far. I don't know any body has alu nip problem, except from internet.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Same here.^^^ No issues with alu nips either but I don't ride in the ocean either.

But I wonder how long it will take for the (cheap) Chinese knock-off outfits to copy Derby on his drain holes?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

My last build was a carbon rim with Sapim D-Light and Sapim anodized alloy nipples, and after the build I put a drop of a thin oil in each nipple/rim interface for better water displacement.
Don't know how good this is, but at least it gives me a little of peace of mind.


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

Thanks, are you using normal length (12mm) or 14 or 16mm?? I choose the same spokes d-lights

Thank you


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

rockman said:


> Same here.^^^ No issues with alu nips either but I don't ride in the ocean either.
> 
> But I wonder how long it will take for the (cheap) Chinese knock-off outfits to copy Derby on his drain holes?
> 
> View attachment 1049347


Actually i was asking about drain holes the nextie guy Brian, and he said thay could do it but they dont really see the point..


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Gaci said:


> Thanks, are you using normal length (12mm) or 14 or 16mm?? I choose the same spokes d-lights
> 
> Thank you


I used 14mm Sapim polyax hexagon without slotted head, my rim nipple seat bead is 3.5mm thick so I just ordered the 14mm to play safe, and I think I did the right choice.



Gaci said:


> Actually i was asking about drain holes the nextie guy Brian, and he said thay could do it but they dont really see the point..


IMO, and its just that an opinion, but I think that hole only make the rim less strong, and we had never needed drain holes, why would we be needing them now?
That hole, at least for me, seams to be just a good place for a rim to crack.

P.S.- not to mention that hole also seems to be a good place for the dirt to enter.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Gaci said:


> Thanks, are you using normal length (12mm) or 14 or 16mm?? I choose the same spokes d-lights
> 
> Thank you


I use 12mm brass. ENVE uses 10mm brass. Galvanic corrosion is a possibility worth avoiding.


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

I think i might try front wheel with alloy nipples and rear with brass.. 

I dont actually get the point of nipple length, is it the amount of "contact" that tread of spoke makes to the nipple? Why would enve use only 10mm?


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Gaci said:


> Actually i was asking about drain holes the nextie guy Brian, and he said thay could do it but they dont really see the point..


I don't find that response surprising do you? Especially if it increases his manufacturing costs.

My thinking is why not? Especially if you ride where it's wet like the Pacific NW or do a lot of stream crossings. Water gets in through the nipple seat. Even at max spoke tension water will seep in. No stopping it. Maybe the drain holes help, maybe not. My guess is they do and I haven't heard of any Derby failures related to drain holes. Anyone?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Gaci said:


> I think i might try front wheel with alloy nipples and rear with brass..
> 
> I dont actually get the point of nipple length, is it the amount of "contact" that tread of spoke makes to the nipple? Why would enve use only 10mm?


Weight. They sell them on their site for 50 cents each. Dans Comp supplies the 12mm brass for free with the Sapim Lasers I like.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Gaci said:


> (...)Why would enve use only 10mm?


Enve use inverted internal nipples, and because they are internal they don't need to be as long,
You can buy from Enve or Sapim, I think I also saw once a 3rd party, don't recall where.
The ones from Sapim are available in 9mm and 12mm, and if I'm building a rim with internal nipples I would go with the 9mm from Sapim, lighter, cheaper and definitively not inferior.
Do notice, that inverted nipples are design to be used with specific rims, with thinner and directional holes, and not normal rims.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Inverted | Sapim








Inverted nipples are used in special rims. Because the whole nipple remains in the rim, it gives a better aerodynamic profile as well as a better design. Due to its special use, Sapim offers inverted nipples in 8,5, 10 and 12 mm.

Picture says 9 and 12mm.


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

Just got my rims back from customs.

After detailed inspections i found out this, is this normal or you had similar things with your or i should warranty them? 
Is there anything to worry about that lip anomaly or i shouldn't bother at all?


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

I would send them pictures and see if they will warranty them.
If they do ask them to send a call tag so you can ship those back at their expense and not have to pay return shipping charges.
If you get lucky they might just tell you to keep them.


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

Yeah already did that, but rims are probably totally safe to lace or build up right?


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

Where did you get them from?


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

Nextie's


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

Did they answer your question already? Curious what they offered !


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

They are still on vacation, will respond probably on friday..


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

Guys can you help me understanding these: 

I have a schwalbe Snakeskin Magic mary on 22.5mm ID wide rim
And i have a schwalbe Supergravity Magic mary on 28mm ID wide rim 

With first setup the MM tire is much wider, how the hack is this possible?


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Pics?
Is this measured from outside knob to outside knob?
Or from casing to casing?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Just to be sure, they are both 2.35", right?
The wider one it's not a 2.50" tire by chance?


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

Couldn't take any good pictures indoors, got a few but situation on photos is even more extreme than in flash. 

Yes sure they are both 2.35"..

The stupid thing bothered me so much that i installed the "old" magic mary on rear 28ID carbon rim and new SG MM on front 28ID carbon rim and they are identical, the old one could be a millimetre or even less wider due to stretching.. 

So bottom line is that with 22.5mm internal dt swiss wheelset the tire was way more beefier than both magic marys mounted on Nextie 35mm rims (28mm internal).. 

Havent got a single clue how this is possible i was like 99% sure its the tire fault but it obviously not.


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

This is comparison between:

Magic Mary 2.35" on 28mm internal wide nextie rim and
Hans Dampf 2.35" on 22.5mm internal wide dt swiss rim (muddy one)

Its really hard to capture photo that would show the actual situaton, but i can tell you that hansdampf on 22.5mm rim is wider for about 2-3mm compared to magic mary (which is much more beefier tire) mounted on 28mm id.

This is really frustrating


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Gaci said:


> Guys can you help me understanding these:
> 
> I have a schwalbe Snakeskin Magic mary on 22.5mm ID wide rim
> And i have a schwalbe Supergravity Magic mary on 28mm ID wide rim
> ...


Like said before, did you measure the casing or the knobs?
When the tire is rounder (narrower rim) the side knobs are in a bigger angle and that may contribute to wider tire at the knobs. But the casing width should increase in size with rim width.


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## Gaci (Sep 29, 2015)

YOu are right, i was measuring the knobs which were wider like you said but the tire cassing itself is a bit wider with new rim. 

But i dont understand why my friend with 25mm internal width rim has bigger MagicMary tire than me on 22.5mm ID... And how the hack are other users get their tires that big, is it difference between 28mm ID and 32mm ID really that huge than..


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

This question has been languishing here for a while, so I figured I would add a couple other things to consider. You have offered up a confusing mishmash of dissimilar tire and rim comparisons and your unit of measure seems to range from "less wide" to "more beefier" so it is really tough to say anything for certain. You did provide a few usable bits of data though, and, if you want to continue to try to sort it out, I can suggest a few other things to check.



Gaci said:


> The stupid thing bothered me so much that i installed the "old" magic mary on rear 28ID carbon rim and new SG MM on front 28ID carbon rim and they are identical, the old one could be a millimetre or even less wider due to stretching..
> 
> So bottom line is that with 22.5mm internal dt swiss wheelset the tire was way more beefier than both magic marys mounted on Nextie 35mm rims (28mm internal)..


This is the only really valid comparison. Comparing a HD to a MM is not going to tell us anything for certain, and even comparing two different casing MMs throws some uncertainty into things. You need to compare the exact same tire, at the same pressure, mounted on two different rims, which you did here, and so you seem to have confirmed that the same tire appears "beefier" on the 22.5mm DT rim than on the 28mm Nextie.



Gaci said:


> YOu are right, i was measuring the knobs which were wider like you said but the tire cassing itself is a bit wider with new rim.
> 
> But i dont understand why my friend with 25mm internal width rim has bigger MagicMary tire than me on 22.5mm ID... And how the hack are other users get their tires that big, is it difference between 28mm ID and 32mm ID really that huge than..


OK, so in this first paragraph here you establish that you were looking at the knobs, not casing, which may explain the "beefier" appearance with the narrower rim, as the knobs splay out more on the narrower rim. You also seem to have now observed that, in fact, the casing is wider on the wider rim, just as one would expect.

But then in the second paragraph you introduce a whole other, previously unmentioned, rim (25mm), and say it's MM appears wider than on your 22.5 rim, again not telling us if you are looking at knobs or casing. If you are looking at casing, of course it's wider on a 25mm rim than a 22.5mm! And when you say "how are other...users getting their tires that big", how do you know that theirs are bigger than yours (which gives me a chuckle to even say) if you aren't actually measuring yours with calipers?

I'm not trying to be mean, but dude, you need to:
1. Get yourself some digital calipers
2. Start measuring casings and knobs and specifying which you are talking about.
3. Stop comparing the unmeasured appearance of your tires to the unmeasured appearance of tires in a photo on the internet, or other differing tire models for that matter.

If you actually do all of that and still find your wider rims are resulting in a narrower tire casing, then let us know. One possibility is if your Nextie's have a particularly tall rim sidewall, as many hookless rims do, they will constrain the tire to a few mm greater height than a shorter model like a Stan's do. I'm not sure where DT's stack up in the mix of things.

On a more exciting note, anyone got any hands on experience/ride reports with any of the asymmetric rims with the reinforced spoke holes that are showing up on the various rim websites?


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

bigdrunk said:


> Here are my thoughts:
> 
> These rims seem great so far. No complaints once so ever, but if I were to order them again I would get carbon cycle's 38mm rims. I noticed them after I had ordered these. No big deal, but the new 38mm rims are wider and 20g lighter.
> 
> ...


Ok, bigdrunk, I am about to pull the trigger. Was thinking either the carbon bicycle 35/30 that you used, or the new asymetrical. 35/29. For 29 inch wheels. Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM hookless rim 35mm wide - carbon rim (Asmymetric) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike

I don't want to go as wide as 38mm.

Going to go with DT 350 hubs as I can't afford i9s or DT 240, brass nipps, Sapim Laser j bend spokes, 32 holes. These will go on my new Kona Process 111. I am high 170's to 185 in weight and ride similarly to you. No drops over 2-ish feet. Little floats here and there. Riding in the Sun Valley, Idaho area. Mostly hard, with some loose over hard, some rocks and spiney stuff, a very few rock gardens. Perfect 29er land. Similar enough to your situation that I feel comfortable ordering similar stuff, with more spokes.

Now I have to see whether I will have them build them, or attempt on my own. I have never built a wheel before, and want to feel pretty confident in the end result.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

delete duplicate due to chrome fart.


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

Just finished carbon cycle 35 29 id asymmetric build 32 hole with 240 dt Swiss. Built after bigdrunk posted his. Came in at 720 front 810 rear with tape and valves. Three rides at 20 psi rear 18 front rr 2.25 rear 2.35 front. Seems glued to the ground but still rolls with buddy's in group ride. Highly recommend carbon cycle so far asked for 400 gram rims and that's exactly what I got. Also great luck with light bike rims three sets in our group for last three years trouble free. But they seem do be expensive compared to carbon cycles. Fwiw compare carbon cycle 35 to nox farlow they seem identical.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

eb1888 said:


> They are all selling the same non-Enve by any stretch of the imagination rim. Things are changing quickly so the 35/30 is a dated design already somewhat less desirable than the wider and/or asymmetrical options they have recently listed at higher prices. In other words the market for it is diminishing among the informed non first time or bargain buyers. It is ripe for discounting not for nickel and diming. It's perfect for expanding the Chinese carbon rim market toward the segment currently choosing aluminum rims with a $125 price point and $40/pr shipping with no phony fees. Are these guys smart enough to read the market? We'll see.
> Probably already on Alibaba for $99 if you could negotiate the poor web design and lack of specifics.
> 
> Why pay $365 for rims when you can get a finished wheelset using the same rims for $465+75 ship?
> Hookless 35mm Wide 29" Carbon Mountain Wheels Tubeless Compatible Am DH | eBay


Well, hell. Seems like I might as well just order these, and as you say later, if the rear breaks, get a DT 350 and Laser Sapims and re-lace then.

I have an email into him to look at possibilities.

EDIT: Sorry for all the posts. I read through this entire thread tonight trying to learn, and a few things came up as I read.


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## kieljon (Sep 7, 2015)

Supposedly my new bike is on its way to the bike shop (or possibly even being put together as I type). One of the long term upgrades I plan is carbon wheels. Only problem is I'm completely ignorant about what I need/want. Do any of you guys (or gals) have suggestions on a good place to start learning? I figure I have about 12 months to a year before I'll be able to pull off the upgrade. Plenty of time for research. I'm definitely leaning toward the no name option, but again, am ignorant of what's out there. 

Thanks for any suggestions!


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

kieljon said:


> Supposedly my new bike is on its way to the bike shop (or possibly even being put together as I type). One of the long term upgrades I plan is carbon wheels. Only problem is I'm completely ignorant about what I need/want. Do any of you guys (or gals) have suggestions on a good place to start learning? I figure I have about 12 months to a year before I'll be able to pull off the upgrade. Plenty of time for research. I'm definitely leaning toward the no name option, but again, am ignorant of what's out there.
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions!


Read this thread, search and read other threads, and know that in 12mos you will have even more options. Good luck.

Hell, in 12months the wheel size of your bike may be obsolete and on clearance.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

rfxc said:


> Read this thread, search and read other threads, and know that in 12mos you will have even more options. Good luck.
> 
> Hell, in 12months the wheel size of your bike may be obsolete and on clearance.


+1 on this.

this actually happened to me, not the obsolete wheel size thing , but the options available.
In one years the options went up by 3x, the prices changed, the design and strengths changed, the damn Dollar/Euro rate changed and not in my favor , and I ended up buying a set of rims that weight more 100g that I was originally looking, are asymmetric, don't have nipple holes in rim bed, the design is the oppose of I was locking at first...

So, yeah... Nine months from now is when you should start looking for your new rims


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

rfxc said:


> Read this thread, search and read other threads, and know that in 12mos you will have even more options. Good luck.
> 
> Hell, in 12months the wheel size of your bike may be obsolete and on clearance.


And make notes while you read it, save them to your own document. Otherwise, if you want to find something you saw here, you will have to search 7000 posts. Add a few more thousands a year from now when you are actually going to buy


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Aglo said:


> +1 on this.
> 
> this actually happened to me, not the obsolete wheel size thing , but the options available.
> In one years the options went up by 3, the prices changed, the design and strengths changed, the damn Dollar/Euro rate changed and not in my favor , and I ended up buying a set of rims that weight more 100g that I was originally locking, are asymmetric, don't have nipple holes in rim bed, the design is the oppose of I was locking at first...
> ...


Any chance you can post a link to the hoops you bought?
How where they to lace up? Or replace a spoke?


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

Making the decision. Going to order either LB, or Carbon Bicycle rims, the DT 350 hubs, Sapim Lasers with brass nipples, and tape/etc. to set up tubeless. Just deciding on the "normal" 35/30 rims for 29ers, or the asymmetric. probably will just go standard as it is cheaper, and seems to have worked for others.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

dimitrin said:


> Any chance you can post a link to the hoops you bought?
> How where they to lace up? Or replace a spoke?


Sure, here you go:

I bought them from Peter, he is easy to talk to and answer really quick, you can even have real time talk by mail .
Rims: HR933C 29er asym rim 30mm depth 33mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed

They have have 3.5mm thick walls and nipple seat bed, this make them heavier but stronger.

I laced them myself, they built really well and easy, I used 2cross and Sapim D-Ligth spokes.

As they are asymmetric, it really help in the lacing when building up the proper tension and balancing it.

As mentioned before, I opted to not have nipple holes in rim bed, this make the tubeless setup so much easy, but the lacing process more demanding and longer, but nothing major, it just take more time and attention at first when tacking up the slack and build tension.

I have put them to some abuse, nothing extreme, but my ride is something between AM and Enduro. After three months and about 500Km they are true and trouble free.

Didn't broke any spoke/nipple yet, but don't foresee any trouble, I just need to remove the nipple from inside the rim and replace the spoke/nipple.
I already did this when by mistake a couple of 2.3mm nipples were shipped along my 2mm nipple order and unfasten inside the rim when lacing them.

If you want I can post some photos of them.


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

Pics would be very nice, these are on my shortlist.


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## jboyd122 (Jan 8, 2010)

Here are my LB 24/30 U-Shape rims laced up to White Industries MI6 hubs. I opted to have the new Avatar logo affixed as a decal at the valve stem location underneath the matte clear coat. I couldn't be happier with how they turned out and the quality.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

sunvalleylaw said:


> Making the decision. Going to order either LB, or Carbon Bicycle rims, the DT 350 hubs, Sapim Lasers with brass nipples, and tape/etc. to set up tubeless. Just deciding on the "normal" 35/30 rims for 29ers, or the asymmetric. probably will just go standard as it is cheaper, and seems to have worked for others.


Looked again. Seems like Carbon Bicycle 35/30 is the way to go for me. A big difference in price that can help pay for spokes and etc. and eb188 and bigdrunk seem to have had good luck.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

jboyd122 said:


> Here are my LB 24/30 U-Shape rims laced up to White Industries MI6 hubs. I opted to have the new Avatar logo affixed as a decal at the valve stem location underneath the matte clear coat. I couldn't be happier with how they turned out and the quality.
> 
> View attachment 1056752


Looks great! I wish those hubs were within my budget as they look nice. How did you get LB to use the smaller sticker? I did not see an option when compiling a "practice" order.


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## jboyd122 (Jan 8, 2010)

In the comments section in the order form I asked them to do it and attached a picture I found earlier in this thread to show them what I was asking for. I also clarified it with them in email after the order was processed.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

eb1888 said:


> Inverted | Sapim
> 
> Inverted nipples are used in special rims. Because the whole nipple remains in the rim, it gives a better aerodynamic profile as well as a better design. Due to its special use, Sapim offers inverted nipples in 8,5, 10 and 12 mm.
> 
> Picture says 9 and 12mm.


Presumably this means you have to pull your wheels and rim tape off if you need to true your wheel or change a spoke? Seems awkward.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Aglo said:


> Sure, here you go:
> 
> I bought them from Peter, he is easy to talk to and answer really quick, you can even have real time talk by mail .
> Rims: HR933C 29er asym rim 30mm depth 33mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed
> ...


Thanks for posting. Yes pics would be good. My main concern with this design is how to get the nipple out of the rim if I were to break a spoke.


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

Here you go:


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

dimitrin said:


> Thanks for posting. Yes pics would be good. My main concern with this design is how to get the nipple out of the rim if I were to break a spoke.


Sorry, I didn't yet had the time to post the pics, I will try post them later today or tomorrow.

Now, how to take out the nipples?
I was planing to shoot a video, but I did remember that once saw an asian chick doing something similar. And I vaguely remember it was from Yoeleo, 30 sec search on Youtube and here is the video:






So it was not something similar, it was exactely what you ask 

If the broken spoke thread is still screwed to the the nipple, its even easier, you just need a magnet and extract it trough the valve hole.

Edit: The magnet thing only work if your spokes are steel, and aren't from a stainless steel type that is not magnetic.
If you use Sapin, DT or Wheelsmith, you are probably good to go .


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Ok, here are the promised photos:

































































If you want to see them without the stickers, I have first to find the photos I took without them .

I decided to apply stickers after swapping bikes with a buddy, and he hadn't rode for 10m and had already scratch them :eekster:
Using the Enve stickers allowed me to cover 3/4 of the rims on both sides, and they look rad, so win win .


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Are those Enve rims?


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

jacksonlui said:


> Are those Enve rims?


Faux Enve...

Enve rims for people who don't want to pay for them... so "Envy" rims if you will.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Ogre said:


> Faux Enve...
> 
> Enve rims for people who don't want to pay for them... so "Envy" rims if you will.


Yes, I "envy" those stikers, the design is awesome, and they protect 4/3 of the rim surface .
But whenever people ask about the rims, I outright tell them that the rims are not Enve.
And you are right, I definitively don't want to pay for them .


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Ogre said:


> Faux Enve...
> 
> Enve rims for people who don't want to pay for them... so "Envy" rims if you will.


That's as funny as this Chinese Flyxxi Carbon frame I bought off a guy.







Yes I took off all the stickers didn't want to be seen riding a Fake Specialized Carbon frame lol







I did leave the Special Ed on it thou







For the record The ENVE Bars Stem and Seat post are real ENVE parts


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, I pulled the trigger and ordered 35/30s from Carbon Bicycle. So here goes! Will put together the rest of my order via Dans Comp for spokes and such, and figure out what I need to set up for tubeless with my Ardents.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

sunvalleylaw said:


> Well, I pulled the trigger and ordered 35/30s from Carbon Bicycle. So here goes! Will put together the rest of my order via Dans Comp for spokes and such, and figure out what I need to set up for tubeless with my Ardents.


Also, I did not order them lighter than the stock 430+/- as I think that will be light enough and saving 20 or 30 grams on the rim is not worth it to me since these are my first carbon, and I am not a super lightweight rider at 180 lbs +/-.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Galvanic corrosion is a problem Enve ran into with their carbon wheels. They now just use brass nipples. If you want to use aluminum figure on replacing them every two seasons.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Or....you can read all the threads on galvanic corrosion in relation to carbon rims and aluminum nipples. Some believe that the Enve issue was primarily due to poor anodization of the aluminum nipples. Other users have experienced similar issues when using cheaply anodized aluminum nipples. Enve addressed the issue by changing to a specially designed brass nipple that is very minimalist to address the weight issue (brass vs. aluminum). Many users have built carbon rims from many manufacturers using quality anodized aluminum nipples with no issues for years of use. If you are looking to lighten a wheel build, many experienced wheel builders would recommend using quality aluminum nipples. 
That being said, there is no problem using brass nipples. They are just a little heavier.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

eb1888 said:


> Galvanic corrosion is a problem Enve ran into with their carbon wheels. They now just use brass nipples. If you want to use aluminum figure on replacing them every two seasons.


I was figuring on Sapim Lasers from Dan's Comp with brass nipples included.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

sunvalleylaw said:


> I was figuring on Sapim Lasers from Dan's Comp with brass nipples included.


I used those with that rim. Good combo and the build isn't too carbon stiff.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

I posted about 1000 posts ago a theory regarding aluminum nipple corrosion that seems to fit all the facts.
The basic theory if that the disc brake is generating electrons that travel down the hub and spokes to the nipples and then act as a driver to the galvanic corrosion of the nipples.
This explains why I have zipp road wheels that are 10 years old with aluminum nipples and no corrosion (road bikes have rim brakes). Why some have lots of nipple corrosion and others hardly any (different brake pad material and different brake usage patterns) and numerous other data points that this theory fits.
Anyway, I rebuilt all 7 of my carbon MTB wheels with brass nipples after failures in 3 wheels in less than 2 years. I also uploaded some pictures of some ugly nipples from those wheels. I only used DT aluminum nipples (black and silver) so I don't think poor anodizing is the answer to my corrosion. I am a heavy brake type of guy and generally use metallic pads. (although I have lately started using metallic front and organic rear to better balance my brakes to the amount of traction per wheel)
So one of the few things that I agree with Enve on is that the only way to go on carbon MTB wheels is brass nipples.
One disadvantage of brass nipples and a reason that Enve went with a really light brass design, is that brass is so strong that if you get a stick in your wheel, it would usually break an aluminum nipple (the weakest link) but now, a brass nipple might pull through the carbon rim before it breaks the spoke. The good news is that you can replace 6 of these rims for the price of one Enve.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

yourdaguy said:


> I posted about 1000 posts ago a theory regarding aluminum nipple corrosion that seems to fit all the facts.
> The basic theory if that the disc brake is generating electrons that travel down the hub and spokes to the nipples and then act as a driver to the galvanic corrosion of the nipples.
> This explains why I have zipp road wheels that are 10 years old with aluminum nipples and no corrosion (road bikes have rim brakes). Why some have lots of nipple corrosion and others hardly any (different brake pad material and different brake usage patterns) and numerous other data points that this theory fits.


I've thought back to your theory several times since you last posted it, and its really intriguing. There are so many variables involved in the real world that make it tough to divine the truth, I would love to see someone who wants to geek out on the topic try to measure the electron flow generated with a disc brake, different pad materials, etc......so, paging someone who wants to geek out! (Maybe we can get Meltingfeather to do it )



yourdaguy said:


> So one of the few things that I agree with Enve on is that the only way to go on carbon MTB wheels is brass nipples. One disadvantage of brass nipples and a reason that Enve went with a really light brass design, is that brass is so strong that if you get a stick in your wheel, it would usually break an aluminum nipple (the weakest link) but now, a brass nipple might pull through the carbon rim before it breaks the spoke. The good news is that you can replace 6 of these rims for the price of one Enve.


From the info I have seen, you may want to stop agreeing with Enve on this point too. I have seen their claims that they engineered a more minimalist nipple that gives the reliability and corrosion resistance of brass but at the weight of aluminum, and part of this minimalism is shorter length (10mm). The thing is, if you look at the weight, its essentially the same as regular brass nips (1g per), and is no where near as light as aluminum nips (generally .3-.4g per), so the claim appears to be BS. One would have to assume that the Enve brass nips would have to be a bit lighter than competitors 12mm brass nips, just by virtue of being shorter, but it doesn't seem born out in the weight figures. Maybe there are rounding errors at play, but it seems awfully odd for them to do that considering how much people obsess over this stuff. See for yourself: Nipples - Wheelbuilder.com

It sounds like you are saying that Enve also claim that their brass nips will, by virtue of their minimalist design, fail before they pull through the rim. Where did you see that claim? As I pointed out above, they don't seem to be any lighter, so unless they have some engineered failure point, which isn't visible in pics, then this seems like another BS claim on their part.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Enve use the 10mm inverted nipples from Sapim, with the claimed weight of 0.75g to 0.77g.
Sapim also have a shorter version of this nipples with a length of 8.5mm, don't recall the claimed weight but they should be even lighter.

The nipples don't always fail before being pulled through the rim, in this same thread, a couple of pages back, is a example of this.


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

On my Nextie Rims I had aluminium nipples at first but they corroded, so I swapped them out with brass ones. Weird, my LBS said they had never seen that before. I was using DT Swiss Aluminium nipples.


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## yourdaguy (Dec 20, 2008)

No claim that Enve nips might be safer, just a speculation. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## cleanneon98 (Jul 12, 2014)

Hey guys, considering I have a Trek X-CAL 6 29er with the AT-650 rims, how inexpensively could I build a proper set of carbon wheels for it? I've been told that I shouldn't use my DC20/22 hubs, or factory spokes, for the new wheel-set. I don't need top of the line, but there's lots of wheels out there that are superior to the AT-650


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

Aglo said:


> Enve use the 10mm inverted nipples from Sapim, with the claimed weight of 0.75g to 0.77g.
> Sapim also have a shorter version of this nipples with a length of 8.5mm, don't recall the claimed weight but they should be even lighter.


Thanks for the info. So then it sounds like most of the published weights are victims of a rounding error, since they are listed at 1g. The figures you provided suggest that they have gotten close to cutting the brass vs. aluminum weight penalty in half, which sure makes it pretty tough to justify the iffy reliability of aluminum. Having said that, the Envy nips are internal so they require removing tire and strip to true, so it is a bit of a give and take still. Plus I still think it is playing fast and loose with the facts for them to claim they match aluminum weight.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Sapim also have the 12mm version of the same nipple, and those have the claimed/verified weight of 1g per nipple, I'm guessing people are referring to those.

The reason I choose "no internal spoke holes" and not "internal inverted nipples" was precisely to get away from using tape, if there was a way of combining the two, that would ne nice .

They are probably speaking of the inverted aluminum nipples they used before, they are a lot beefier than the brass ones, and longer too, so i'm guessing the weigth would be closer to the 0.75g of the shorter brass version they are using now.


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

ebsilon said:


> Hello All
> 
> Just finished a set of LB wheels with internal nipples - so far so good
> 
> ...


I have build a set with inverted Sapim 8,5mm nipples and LB hookless rims as well.

It turned out perfect 

The first set of wheels was:

wider-carbon-mountain-29er-rims-clincher-tubeless-compatible

And the second set was:

bead-hook-less-rims-carbon-29er-light-bike-rim-tubeless-compatible

Ciao
Ebsilon


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## ManxShred (Jun 18, 2008)

I had really bad corrosion on a set of DT Swiss RC28 C DB wheels. They are a carbon, disc brake wheel for road bikes and used the DT Swiss inverted alu nipple, which were absolutely destroyed in 1.5 years.
I replaced them with the Sapim brass inverted nipples.


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

Hey guys been gone for a while can someone post a link for these rims with the internal nipples and also is there anything else I should also look at?

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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Givmedew said:


> Hey guys been gone for a while can someone post a link for these rims with the internal nipples and also is there anything else I should also look at?


Any rim can be drilled with a smaller hole for internal nipples if you set it up with the supplier.
4.5mm is normal. 2.3mm for internal nipples.


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

eb1888 said:


> Any rim can be drilled with a smaller hole for internal nipples if you set it up with the supplier.


Which is the advantage of going to internal nipples?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

patrul said:


> Which is the advantage of going to internal nipples?


You can use lighter 8.5mm Sapim inverted brass nipples instead of 12mm regulars. You need a little longer spoke. 
So the advantage is limited. Not for me.

Inverted | Sapim


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

patrul said:


> Which is the advantage of going to internal nipples?


I think the main advantage is that the rim will be structurally stronger.
How much stronger, and if the advantages outperforms the limitations, I don't know.


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## mxracer394 (Feb 6, 2012)

Looking to upgrade my arch ex's on my niner jet9 rdo. Was fully set on getting the crest to help in weight. After looking and reading I definitely don't need those problems in my life. So on to Carbon it looks to help drop weight. Light bicycle seems to be the easiest site to play on. Unfortunately I don't know what the hell I need to order. I have 15ta on the front and 12/142 on the rear. I'm not wanting to break the bank. I mostly ride xc, but time to time I get aggressive thanks to strava. There are a decent amount of roots and a few logs on the local trails and that will be the more technical stuff I ride. I'm curious how the lower end hubs they offer are. I would love to keep the weight below 1625grams or less preferably. Can anyone recommend the best setup for me. I know it's hard to say without knowing my trails and riding abilities. I'm 155lbs. And ride 2-3 times a week. Also take care of my stuff. what kinda build time is it on getting the wheels. If anyone knows of a better place to order from let me know. Also the bike is a 11 speed


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

You're part way there. It's really best to build your own wheelset. And a carbon rim actually makes it nearly impos..well very difficult to screw up. Because it starts off stiff and true. ~30mm id is the minimum I would build.
I'd recommend Dt 350 J spoke hubs with the 36t star ratchet upgrade. Sapim laser spokes from Dans Comp with the free brass nipples. You'll need a Parks Tension Gauge and a 4-sided spoke wrench. Permatex Anti-Seize.
Wheels 
CB has a 35/30mm rim at $145 + ship. Or a 35/29 Asym rim about $175 + ship that's a little lighter with 0.5mm thicker beads.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

eb1888 said:


> You're part way there. It's really best to build your own wheelset. And a carbon rim actually makes it nearly impos..well very difficult to screw up. Because it starts off stiff and true. ~30mm id is the minimum I would build.
> I'd recommend Dt 350 J spoke hubs with the 36t star ratchet upgrade. Sapim laser spokes from Dans Comp with the free brass nipples. You'll need a Parks Tension Gauge and a 4-sided spoke wrench. Permatex Anti-Seize.
> Wheels
> CB has a 35/30mm rim at $145 + ship. Or a 35/29 Asym rim about $175 + ship that's a little lighter with 0.5mm thicker beads.


25mm ID 30mm OD is fine for XC and good for weight savings. No reason to go super-wide unless you need fatter tires and many people don't. 30mm is still wider than most aluminum rims intended for the same kind of riding from just a few years ago. 35mm rims are nice though too, wouldn't be a bad idea and would be far better than Stans noodles.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Jayem said:


> 25mm ID 30mm OD is fine for XC and good for weight savings. No reason to go super-wide unless you need fatter tires and many people don't. 30mm is still wider than most aluminum rims intended for the same kind of riding from just a few years ago. 35mm rims are nice though too, wouldn't be a bad idea and would be far better than Stans noodles.


I'm not sure the weight savings is worth it. The wider rims are 100 grams per wheel heavier, but from what I've seem you get a significantly wider contact patch. That means you can run narrower tires and get the same traction. You can save as much in tire weight as you lose in rim weight. As a quick example, the Kenda Karma Pros are 756g for the 2.2" tires and 609g for the 1.9" tires. In theory, the bigger rim gets you a 10-15% increase in contact patch so you are in the ballpark in terms of traction at a comparable weight (likely a little less traction for a bit less weight which is a reasonable trade).

So in theory you can achieve similar weights and ride characteristics with wider rims, and have the option to put a bigger tire on to increase traction depending on where you are riding.

I suspect I'll want the bigger tires regardless, where I ride we have a lot of loose rocks and steep climbs so traction is vital, particularly on the single speed.

Edit: the 1.9" tire example is bad, possibly really bad. Most likely 2.2" tires are the smallest you'd want to go with wider rims


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I also strongly disagree with that 25mm id statement even if your terrain is old school XC without a lot of rocks and roots. The sidewall support will let you corner faster and more safely putting you far faster on that terrain then you would be on narrower rims a few grams lighter.
And who wants to ride just that terrain anyway. Current XC has plenty of rock gardens and roots with some jumps and loose over hardpack cornering where traction is more important than a few grams when you're making performance trade-offs.

Superwide? not hardly...
40mm id is wide but Maxxis has WT versions of their tires designed specifically for that internal rim dimension. Schwalbe has 2.8 and 3.0 Nobby Nic and Rocket Ron 27.5+ tires designed by the manufacturer for 40mm id wheels. Those tires can work fine for many of the types of terrain out there from techy rocky with short fast up and downs to runs at higher speeds with bigger jumps. More tires are already available and this is just the beginning.
Maybe 50mm id could be very wide. But 25 is a waste if you're building today. I think I'll set my next bike up with a 9sp single to save weight if I can buy the parts.


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## jboyd122 (Jan 8, 2010)

I have the same bike you do and just replaced my stans Arch EX rims with LB 24/30 U shape rims. The weight savings were minimal (~25g per wheel), I built them up on the same WI MI6 hubs. The extra width is only slightly noticeable but the extra stiffness has made the biggest impression on me. I just built them up and only have ~200mi on them but just spent 2 days in Moab and they were great.


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## mxracer394 (Feb 6, 2012)

jboyd122 said:


> I have the same bike you do and just replaced my stans Arch EX rims with LB 24/30 U shape rims. The weight savings were minimal (~25g per wheel), I built them up on the same WI MI6 hubs. The extra width is only slightly noticeable but the extra stiffness has made the biggest impression on me. I just built them up and only have ~200mi on them but just spent 2 days in Moab and they were great.


So basically you just got new rims, not a complete wheelset? Just curious because I thought I would save at least 100 grams going with the Carbon. LB responded to my email and this is what they said.
According to your details, we'd like to recommend the 30mm wide 29er wheelset as following specs.
-Rims: RM29C19, 30mm width, 395+/-15g, UD matte, 28H.
-Hubs: Black, DT Swiss 350 J-bend center lock. Is that front 15mm/ rear 12*142mm? With freehub Shimano or Sram?
-Spokes: Black, DT competition race spokes
-Nipples: Black, brass
Anyone see anything I should do different?

I had planned to go with the pillar spokes to save some weight but are the dt's worth the extra weight


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## jboyd122 (Jan 8, 2010)

I've had DT hubs on previous wheelsets with other bikes and never had a problem. The 350's are solid though the 240's are certainly nicer. From the reposts I've read I'd stay away from the novatec hubs. I've always had a good experience with the DT comp spokes and brass nips. I also run 32h on both my rims, but you can get away with 28h at your weight.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

mxracer394 said:


> According to your details, we'd like to recommend the 30mm wide 29er wheelset as following specs.
> -Rims: RM29C19, 30mm width, 395+/-15g, UD matte, 28H.
> -Hubs: Black, DT Swiss 350 J-bend center lock. Is that front 15mm/ rear 12*142mm? With freehub Shimano or Sram?
> -Spokes: Black, DT competition race spokes
> ...


Those are useless(relatively) 24mm id rims. $170ea. for a rim. The id is important. Bead width is a useful 3mm hookless.
Weight is not as important as traction and sidewall support for performance.
Center lock hubs are restrictive when it comes to rotor choices. J bend 6 bolt 28h or 32h is my choice.
Dt Comp Race are 312g/64 at 264 2.0/1.6/2.0mm., Sapim Lasers are 2.0/1.5/2.0mm at 273g/64 at 260, Dt Revolutions are 2.0/1.5/2.0mm at 283g/64 at 264. Carbon rims are stiff enough for Lasers(my choice) at .95/ea. or Revolutions.

So I wouldn't do any of those recommendations except maybe a 28h front wheel and Sapim 12mm brass nipples..


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

mxracer394 said:


> So basically you just got new rims, not a complete wheelset? Just curious because I thought I would save at least 100 grams going with the Carbon. LB responded to my email and this is what they said.
> According to your details, we'd like to recommend the 30mm wide 29er wheelset as following specs.
> -Rims: RM29C19, 30mm width, 395+/-15g, UD matte, 28H.
> -Hubs: Black, DT Swiss 350 J-bend center lock. Is that front 15mm/ rear 12*142mm? With freehub Shimano or Sram?
> ...


I did this, just got new rims, and reused my hubs, Sun Demon II, 200g front hub and 400g the rear hubs, ~600g total, holy boat anchor, Batman :eekster:.
But by just changing to enduro carbon rims and Sapim D-Ligth spokes I saved around 460g.

I had the chance to get a used hub set from Tune (King & Kong), at 320g total for 200€.
And also the chance to get a used hub set of DT 240s, at 380g total for 105€.

As you can see, the hub set weight and the spoke weight can help you in saving some more extra grams if you are wiling to spent the extra cash.
You can also save up to 20g by changing from 3cross to 2cross.

Go to the DT swiss spoke calculator, enter your values and you will get a good estimation of your final weight.


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## mxracer394 (Feb 6, 2012)

I run mainly 2.2 and 2.25 tires would the 35/30 be overkill?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

mxracer394 said:


> I run mainly 2.2 and 2.25 tires would the 35/30 be overkill?


No but to get the best performance you do need to use a tire with a rounded profile and run it at a low psi of 4-5 below what you would run with narrow rims. The Bonty Team tires last and have a rounded profile. With a wide rim the added sidewall support and traction can let you go with a less aggressive tread pattern for faster rolling. I can use XR1 Team 2.2s at 15-16 psi front and 19-20 rear. Your weight and rim hit level would determine it.
Depending on your fork clearances a 35mm id front rim would allow you to experiment with a Panaracer Fat B Nimble 29 x 3.0(2.7" actual) Plus tire. It will work with a 30mm id also. Just maybe not as well. A Reba or SID has the space.
Fun stuff.


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## jboyd122 (Jan 8, 2010)

mxracer394 said:


> I run mainly 2.2 and 2.25 tires would the 35/30 be overkill?


I'm not of the opinion that wider is always better (This has been linked before in the thread and it's worth a read Is wider always better? - ENVE Composites). If you're doing XC style riding/racing then building up a wider/heavier wheelset isn't necessarily the best answer. If you're putting a premium on weight AND performance then I think the 24/30mm wheels are a good balance. If you want the best cornering performance and traction and don't mind adding extra weight and rolling mass to your bike then by all means go wider. For my part I've found that a 24ID wheel is good for my purposes. I run 2.25 rear and 2.35 front tires. Could I have done 30ID wheels? sure. I spent a lot of time thinking about it, but in the end I didn't want the added weight. I race endurance XC and I value the weight savings more than the added performance of going wider. At the end of the day I looked at what all the major wheel brands are recommending for my style of riding and the 24/30 wheels fit the bill.

That being said, is 35/30 overkill for 2.2 tires? I don't think so. If you're not concerned about rim weight then wider is probably fine for you. There is no wrong answer.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I know it's not overkill because I've been using that size for the past two seasons for aggressive trail riding using 2.2 rounded tires. 
Enve is currently so far behind the curve on this but they don't have a ton of ordinary riders. Zero choices for the increasing Plus tire market of 2.8-3.5" wide tires.


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## mxracer394 (Feb 6, 2012)

I wish there was a wrong answer. I want to save the weight but I love flying through the corners. I guess I'm just gonna have to decide which way I want to go with it. I appreciate everyone's advice


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

If you use the note box to request the low weight range of this asym rim your weight could be 385g. 35/29mm with stronger 3mm hookless beads. You could build 28h with Sapim Laser spokes. Depending on your hubs.....
Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM hookless rim 35mm wide - carbon rim (Asmymetric) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Am about to order a Light Bicycle 35/30 rim myself for a new front wheel. 210 lbs cross country style rider on a fs bike in loose and rocky terrain and I avoid jumps and drops over about a foot. Would I be ok with their AM version w 28 spokes? With 32 spokes? DH version with 28 or 32 spokes?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

28h front AM weight should work.


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## mxracer394 (Feb 6, 2012)

Does any know if there is a post where people list there wheel builds and weights? I searched but didn't find anything


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## mxracer394 (Feb 6, 2012)

Any idea what this setup may weight. I wanted to go with the dt hubs but they don't offer a 28h jbend


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

eb1888 said:


> Those are useless(relatively) 24mm id rims. $170ea. for a rim. The id is important. Bead width is a useful 3mm hookless.
> Weight is not as important as traction and sidewall support for performance.
> Center lock hubs are restrictive when it comes to rotor choices. J bend 6 bolt 28h or 32h is my choice.
> Dt Comp Race are 312g/64 at 264 2.0/1.6/2.0mm., Sapim Lasers are 2.0/1.5/2.0mm at 273g/64 at 260, Dt Revolutions are 2.0/1.5/2.0mm at 283g/64 at 264. Carbon rims are stiff enough for Lasers(my choice) at .95/ea. or Revolutions.
> ...





eb1888 said:


> No but to get the best performance you do need to use a tire with a rounded profile and run it at a low psi of 4-5 below what you would run with narrow rims. The Bonty Team tires last and have a rounded profile. With a wide rim the added sidewall support and traction can let you go with a less aggressive tread pattern for faster rolling. I can use XR1 Team 2.2s at 15-16 psi front and 19-20 rear. Your weight and rim hit level would determine it.
> Depending on your fork clearances a 35mm id front rim would allow you to experiment with a Panaracer Fat B Nimble 29 x 3.0(2.7" actual) Plus tire. It will work with a 30mm id also. Just maybe not as well. A Reba or SID has the space.
> Fun stuff.





eb1888 said:


> I know it's not overkill because I've been using that size for the past two seasons for aggressive trail riding using 2.2 rounded tires.
> Enve is currently so far behind the curve on this but they don't have a ton of ordinary riders. Zero choices for the increasing Plus tire market of 2.8-3.5" wide tires.





mxracer394 said:


> I wish there was a wrong answer. I want to save the weight but I love flying through the corners. I guess I'm just gonna have to decide which way I want to go with it. I appreciate everyone's advice


Just to add my two cents, based on eb1888 and other's experience, I ordered the Carbon Bicycle 35/30 rims. I plan to use DT 350 hubs, and laser sapims with brass nipples as he suggests. Another guy did some thing similar with 28 spokes and heavier grade spokes. I opted for 32 and the lasers. I ordered mine a little over a week ago, and they are supposed to ship soon. These will go on a Kona Process 111. I ride adventurish cross country and trail riding. Stongish for an old guy, but no huckster. I think it will work out well for me. I will report back as progress is accomplished. I will be using the Maxxis Ardents, 2.2 and 2.4 that the bike comes with, and see what I like after those wear out. Around here, I usually have used a Maxxis Ignitor in the rear, 2.1, and a 2.4 Ardent on the front. This was on narrow, stock bontrager rims on my old Fisher.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

What is ship time usually like on light-bicycles wheels? 


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mxracer394 said:


> Any idea what this setup may weight. I wanted to go with the dt hubs but they don't offer a 28h jbend


Why not go with a 32h set up?


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## mxracer394 (Feb 6, 2012)

I was thinking that with my weight I could get away with going 28h. That is also the reason I went with the hope hubs due to the fact they are the only option that allows a 28h jbend


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mxracer394 said:


> I was thinking that with my weight I could get away with going 28h. That is also the reason I went with the hope hubs due to the fact they are the only option that allows a 28h jbend


I'm not professional wheel builder (in fact, I'm not even an amateur one) so I won't chime in on how durable they would be but for my last two wheel sets, i debated the same thing. I went with 32h both times for the simple fact that if I catch a stick and break a couple of spokes on a ride, there is a lot better chance of me riding home with 30 spokes rather than 26. But that is just my view, as I am sure 28h wheels would suit me just fine too. I figure it's a very minor weight penalty for a little insurance.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

mxracer394 said:


> I was thinking that with my weight I could get away with going 28h. That is also the reason I went with the hope hubs due to the fact they are the only option that allows a 28h jbend


Dt offers 28H J bend hubs.

DT Swiss 350 disc front wheel hub hole 15x100mm IS 6-hole black
and they make rears too.


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## mxracer394 (Feb 6, 2012)

When I play with the wheel builder thing on lb's website it doesn't give me the option for 28h j bend


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

They don't carry all the different configurations on all hubs. They will tell you just what is available and what isn't. Try contacting them.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

mxracer394 said:


> When I play with the wheel builder thing on lb's website it doesn't give me the option for 28h j bend


They will suggest you get your hubs and they'll send you the rims. You or a local builder do the wheels.


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## blacktrekfuelex (Aug 2, 2012)

I just want to share my rim purchase from Yishun Bike, I ordered a pair of carbon 30/24 ID rims with 28 holes and 3mm offset spokebed in UD matte, rims advertised as 365 grams and they weighed in at 340 & 360 grams each, payment date was the 16th of March and they were delivered on the 30th, the comunication via email was quick and the sale was easy, so at this stage highly recommended.


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## blacktrekfuelex (Aug 2, 2012)

*Yishun ASD29-21-30s rims*


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Just looked at their website and don't see prices for any of their rims or wheels. What am I missing? Surely you don't have to contact them for a price on each of their items?


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## blacktrekfuelex (Aug 2, 2012)

You can find prices on their online seller Asian Cycle Express or you email Yishun direct and that way you do get a better deal, I did anyway. Jason at Yishun was very good and responded to every question.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

blacktrekfuelex said:


> You can find prices on their online seller Asian Cycle Express or you email Yishun direct and that way you do get a better deal, I did anyway. Jason at Yishun was very good and responded to every question.


So what was the price per rim and what was the shipping cost?
Quick shipping.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

eb1888 said:


> So what was the price per rim and what was the shipping cost?
> Quick shipping.


Yes. Inquiring minds want to know.


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## blacktrekfuelex (Aug 2, 2012)

The cost was US$186 per rim and $40 freight to Australia, they gave me a discount of $30 off each rim and then they charge a paypal fee. Total paid was $367 US . 

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

My rims (CarbonBicycle, 35/30 29er) cleared customs yesterday in SF. Should be here early/mid next week!


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Cool. 

Just ordered a LB 35/30 for a front wheel this afternoon. $230 including shipping and paypal fee.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

sunvalleylaw said:


> My rims (CarbonBicycle, 35/30 29er) cleared customs yesterday in SF. Should be here early/mid next week!


Are you mtbing in SF?
Also, do you build your on wheels? I was pondering about the same rim but i've never built wheels and it seems delicate to get a wheel builder that wont give me dirty looks with that rim in the area ;-)


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

boubla said:


> Are you mtbing in SF?
> Also, do you build your on wheels? I was pondering about the same rim but i've never built wheels and it seems delicate to get a wheel builder that wont give me dirty looks with that rim in the area ;-)


Any builder should love that rim. Carbon stiffness makes building very easy. You can lace your own as a first timer with pretty much guaranteed success. You need a Park's Tension Gauge, a good 4-sided spoke wrench and Antiseize Compound.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

No, I am not in SF. That is just where they entered the country and cleared customs.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

My rims showed up today. From what I can tell, they look good! Will get the measurements for spokes made and spokes, etc. ordered this week!


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

sunvalleylaw said:


> My rims showed up today. From what I can tell, they look good! Will get the measurements for spokes made and spokes, etc. ordered this week!


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

Hi, hire is one noob who need some assistance.
Planning to build (by LBS) new wheels for my intense carbine 29". Main use going to be 50/60 AM trails and some light enduro.
Planning to use onyx hubs, messing nipples' and aero spokes probably Pilar.
I have to possible rim, but what is better? And why?
Riding weight is ~80kg (weight in Adam suit 74kg) should I go for reinforced version or AM version is enough?

1
AM928 asymmetric rim profile carbon 29 inch mountain rims Light-Bicycle
2
https://www.nextie.net/mountain-asymmetric-NXT29AS33


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

The LB is better wider id but their new higher price is troubling. I don't think you get more for the extra. AM should be fine.
CB has a 29mm id asym with 3mm hookless beads for $175. I'd use Sapim Laser spokes and brass nipples for this build. Mt bikes get nothing from blade spokes except added expense as Lasers with nipples are $0.95/ea from Dans Comp.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

I think LB has gotten a little bit of recognition so they're bumping the prices while they can.
Though I wouldnt be surprised if some other sites were run by the same guys/molds.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

One hit for LB is it costs extra to get them painted, to the tune of $60 for my fat-rims, but I like their fat design a lot better than nextie, because they space out the spokes and that's better for decreasing the spoke angles. If you are going for narrower (than 65mm) rims, nextie is great and they will paint any color you want for no additional charge.


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## bktide (Oct 28, 2013)

eb1888 said:


> The LB is better wider id but their new higher price is troubling. I don't think you get more for the extra. AM should be fine.
> CB has a 29mm id asym with 3mm hookless beads for $175. I'd use Sapim Laser spokes and brass nipples for this build. Mt bikes get nothing from blade spokes except added expense as Lasers with nipples are $0.95/ea from Dans Comp.


We have developed the new wider outer/inner (40/34mm and 45/39mm) asymmetric rims.
[NEW] Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM&DH hookless rim 45mm wide - Asmymetric Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike
[NEW] Asymmetric Mountain bike 27.5er&29er AM hookless rim 40mm wide - Asmymetric Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


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## Gianni1879 (Aug 2, 2013)

Someone know this 29er Carbon Rim?

Width: 33mm
Inner: 27mm
Dept: 29mm
Weight: 350 gr. +-10gr.
Hookless and Asymmetric

https://sc02.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1LK4SLVXXXXajXVXXq6xXFXXXz.jpg


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

That would be a pretty amazing rim if the dimensions and weight are accurate. I'll let someone else do some product testing on it prior to using it personally.


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## Gianni1879 (Aug 2, 2013)

Andy13 said:


> That would be a pretty amazing rim if the dimensions and weight are accurate. I'll let someone else do some product testing on it prior to using it personally.


yes the weight is real, I know some guys/sellers have this rims.Xiamen Yuan'an Trading Co., Ltd. - carbon wheels,carbon rims (i don't know if there are other sellers to have this rims)


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Andy13 said:


> That would be a pretty amazing rim if the dimensions and weight are accurate. I'll let someone else do some product testing on it prior to using it personally.


Indeed.
I know they are made of Toray 800, hence lighter than the same rim in Toray 700, but that is crazy light.
They had to have shaved material in some place, let's hope that Toray 800 is a good option for a MTB rim and that the places from where they shaved material are the right places.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

these numbers are great.. but scary yes. I suppose they're wide XC rims and AM versions will be +-390gr for similarish dimensions


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## jamiep (Jul 10, 2009)

*Fail*









Purchased from Carbon Fan at carbonbicycle.cc; three rides. I'm having my reservations. I mean am I going to have to build a new wheel every week? Plus it's $50 for them to ship me a new one. I mean i'm not complaining about a 1700 +-g wheelset for $707 but my labor and shipping fees will obviously add up.


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## Gianni1879 (Aug 2, 2013)

jamiep said:


> View attachment 1063294
> 
> 
> Purchased from Carbon Fan at carbonbicycle.cc; three rides. I'm having my reservations. I mean am I going to have to build a new wheel every week? Plus it's $50 for them to ship me a new one. I mean i'm not complaining about a 1700 +-g wheelset for $707 but my labor and shipping fees will obviously add up.


Which rim is it?


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## jamiep (Jul 10, 2009)

29r AM, hookless.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

jamiep said:


> View attachment 1063294
> 
> 
> Purchased from Carbon Fan at carbonbicycle.cc; three rides. I'm having my reservations. I mean am I going to have to build a new wheel every week? Plus it's $50 for them to ship me a new one. I mean i'm not complaining about a 1700 +-g wheelset for $707 but my labor and shipping fees will obviously add up.


Was this a front or rear ?
What amount of pressure were you running ?
Your weight and what type of riding ?


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## jamiep (Jul 10, 2009)

Rear.
26ish.
145, trail/xc on a pivot 429 trail. 

Nothing crazy here. I assume I hit a knife edge rock. The noise was loud. I thought at first I hit my lower water bottle cage.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Bummer hopefully this was a freak occasion I'm 185 to 190 and hit rock gardens on a hard tail and so far so good.
Now I just jinxed myself lol.


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## jamiep (Jul 10, 2009)

Yeah I'm kinda disappointed. Honestly though, they feel amazing and built up really nice. That's the bummer part.

Another note, anybody think I can still run it until the replacement arrives? I mean it still held air after crack and burp.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Duct Tape?

I jest...but my 35/30 carbon rim (for a front wheel only), is waiting to be shipped from China as we speak. 

Let's hope this was an anomaly.


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## jamiep (Jul 10, 2009)

Update. They are sending me a new wheel, for $50 shipping of course. However they said this was the first run of the new rim profile and size. Glad I could be part of their R&D!


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

jamiep said:


> Update. They are sending me a new wheel, for $50 shipping of course. However they said this was the first run of the new rim profile and size. Glad I could be part of their R&D!


Ouch. That's a bummer. It is one reason I went with the older 35/30. I also did not ask them to shave weight when making mine. I figured 20 grams per rim was not worth it. Hopefully mine work out without similar problems. Build still in progress. Hopefully will be done at the end of the week.


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## jamiep (Jul 10, 2009)

I think Carbon Bicycle is thread stalking me.  coo-coo...

_"Hi, Jamie,
We think you misunderstand us, 35/29 rim is not a new product, we have sold them for years, we mean your broken rim is the first warranty rim of this year.
and we will make a certain reinforce on the replacement for you.
Regards,
CB"_

So, isolated incident apparently....


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

jamiep said:


> I think Carbon Bicycle is thread stalking me.  coo-coo...
> 
> _"Hi, Jamie,
> We think you misunderstand us, 35/29 rim is not a new product, we have sold them for years, we mean your broken rim is the first warranty rim of this year.
> ...


Thanks for the follow up. They have been good to deal with for me so far on my order.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

50USD for a design issue feels bad though, its 30% of the rim price. feels like crash replacement more likely. thought 1.7kg for this setup.. i mean theres aluminum setups that are 1.7kg and cheaper ;-)


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## jamiep (Jul 10, 2009)

boubla said:


> 50USD for a design issue feels bad though, its 30% of the rim price. feels like crash replacement more likely. thought 1.7kg for this setup.. i mean theres aluminum setups that are 1.7kg and cheaper ;-)


Well I doubt you're going to get a 35mm aluminum set up any cheaper, lighter or stiffer. I mean I built the set for $707, plus $50 I guess. So still cheaper than say an I-9 set which is only 27mm rim width.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

jamiep said:


> Update. They are sending me a new wheel, for $50 shipping of course. However they said this was the first run of the new rim profile and size. Glad I could be part of their R&D!


And then you still have the other wheel from the same first run.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

sunvalleylaw said:


> Ouch. That's a bummer. It is one reason I went with the older 35/30. I also did not ask them to shave weight when making mine. I figured 20 grams per rim was not worth it. Hopefully mine work out without similar problems. Build still in progress. Hopefully will be done at the end of the week.


I've had no problems with the 35/30mm rim over two seasons. 
The rim is made of a specific number of layers of carbon fiber. The epoxy between the layers is squeezed out using vacuum. 
A lower gram weight means less epoxy in the wheel. Strength comes from the carbon fiber not epoxy. More layers for that extra 20-40g would be stronger.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

eb1888 said:


> The rim is made of a specific number of layers of carbon fiber. The epoxy between the layers is squeezed out using vacuum.
> A lower gram weight means less epoxy in the wheel. Strength comes from the carbon fiber not epoxy. More layers for that extra 20-40g would be stronger.


This isn't 100% true. If there isn't enough epoxy, then the fibers can separate causing what you see in the picture. The type and amount of epoxy plays a huge role in the products weight, durability, and stiffness. But so does the actual carbon fiber. Finding the right balance is key.

And the only thing that is taken out with the vacuum process is the excess air. Air pockets are bad.


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## jamiep (Jul 10, 2009)

CrozCountry said:


> And then you still have the other wheel from the same first run.


See post #7960


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

BXCc said:


> This isn't 100% true. If there isn't enough epoxy, then the fibers can separate causing what you see in the picture. The type and amount of epoxy plays a huge role in the products weight, durability, and stiffness. But so does the actual carbon fiber. Finding the right balance is key.
> 
> And the only thing that is taken out with the vacuum process is the excess air. Air pockets are bad.





eb1888 said:


> I've had no problems with the 35/30mm rim over two seasons.
> The rim is made of a specific number of layers of carbon fiber. The epoxy between the layers is squeezed out using vacuum.
> A lower gram weight means less epoxy in the wheel. Strength comes from the carbon fiber not epoxy. More layers for that extra 20-40g would be stronger.


Well, the rims are here and being built anyway. Couldn't get lasers in a timely manner as they were out and backordered. So I went with DT Comps. Silver. A little heavier, but oh well. Still should be a nice upgrade over anything I have ever ridden. Thanks for the thoughts and explanation on the epoxy vs. layers. As it was my first set, I figured tried and true and normal manufacturer spec was the way to go for me.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

You'll be happy.
A rounded profile tire works good for me. Bontrager Team XR is one variety with the right profile. Psi went down by 4-5 lbs. over my old rim setup. Although you want to stay above a level where you get rim hits.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

BXCc said:


> And the only thing that is taken out with the vacuum process is the excess air. Air pockets are bad.


Taking out air pockets is an important part of the vacuum bagging process.
But getting the correct ratio of epoxy to fiber is also important.

"The reason that composites are used increasingly is the strength-to-weight advantages that they offer. The key to obtaining these advantages is maximizing the fiber-to-resin ratio. The reinforcement (fiberglass, aramid Kevlar®, carbon, etc. is not particularly strong in the textile state. Also, thermosetting resins such as polyester and epoxy are quite brittle if cured without reinforcement. If excess resin exists in the laminate, the laminate will have more of the properties of resin only. If too little resin exists, places where the reinforcement is dry will cause weak spots. To optimize the resin content, the entire reinforcement must be saturated with resin with as little excess as possible. The technique of "squeezing out" excess resin to obtain a maximized fiber-to-resin content is the theory of vacuum bagging."
Vacuum Bagging Equipment and Methods | Fibre Glast

Squeezing out that resin in a big part of the process.
Too much resin can be brittle like epoxy and can cause failure like what was pictured. Air comes out easier so a failure from too much epoxy is more likely.
When you request a DH version they put more layers into the build, not just more epoxy.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

eb1888 said:


> Taking out air pockets is an important part of the vacuum bagging process.
> But getting the correct ratio of epoxy to fiber is also important.
> 
> "The reason that composites are used increasingly is the strength-to-weight advantages that they offer. The key to obtaining these advantages is maximizing the fiber-to-resin ratio. The reinforcement (fiberglass, aramid Kevlar®, carbon, etc. is not particularly strong in the textile state. Also, thermosetting resins such as polyester and epoxy are quite brittle if cured without reinforcement. If excess resin exists in the laminate, the laminate will have more of the properties of resin only. If too little resin exists, places where the reinforcement is dry will cause weak spots. To optimize the resin content, the entire reinforcement must be saturated with resin with as little excess as possible. The technique of "squeezing out" excess resin to obtain a maximized fiber-to-resin content is the theory of vacuum bagging."
> ...


Which is pretty much what I mentioned. It's all about ratios. And in the industrial setting, there shouldn't be much excess resin as the carbon will be pre-preg. You mentioned that the strength comes from the carbon and not the epoxy and I was just stating that is wasn't 100% fact. Most of the epoxy should be squeezed out before the layup process as vacuum pumps hate drinking epoxy. But I agree that more layers of carbon help the strength if the layup and ratios are correct.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

eb1888 said:


> You'll be happy.
> A rounded profile tire works good for me. Bontrager Team XR is one variety with the right profile. Psi went down by 4-5 lbs. over my old rim setup. Although you want to stay above a level where you get rim hits.


I have traditionally run a 2.4 Ardent front, and 2.1 Ignitor rear (clearance issues on my old bike), but now have a 2.2 Ardent rear, that came on my new bike, 2.4 Ardent front. Riding typically on pretty smooth, or a little loose over hard later in the year, with some rock sticking out, some sharp sideways sedimentary that sticks up here and there in the old Idaho Basolith and sedimentary rocks. Will look at trying your bontragers when I wear out these that came with the bike, but have been pretty happy with the Ardents so far. I usually have run around 27 in the front, 29 in the rear in terms of pressure with my old narrow Bontrager rims (tubeless). I do not like rim hits and like a little give, but some firmness as well. Will drop a couple/few pounds and see how it goes, but will probably stay in the mid 20s for a while as I get use to it.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

eb1888 said:


> You'll be happy.
> A rounded profile tire works good for me. Bontrager Team XR is one variety with the right profile. Psi went down by 4-5 lbs. over my old rim setup. Although you want to stay above a level where you get rim hits.


I'll second the XR Team tires. I've got the XR3 rear and XR4 front both in 2.35 and on 29mm internal rims.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

sunvalleylaw said:


> I usually have run around 27 in the front, 29 in the rear in terms of pressure with my old narrow Bontrager rims (tubeless). I do not like rim hits and like a little give, but some firmness as well. Will drop a couple/few pounds and see how it goes, but will probably stay in the mid 20s for a while as I get use to it.


Naturally be more careful with the rear, but....I accidently went out for a lap with about 12 in my front instead of the normal 15-16.
I could feel the tire scrunch up when cornering but it refused to wash out and I had more traction on the hardpack with ground granite on that trail. I was careful to not whack the rim for the rest of the ride. Rim hits would be the only limiting factor. Your tuning option is to put a pump in your pack and check different pressure amounts as you ride. I can't see you needing more than 18-19 in the front. Remember, you're buying this wider rim for performance from added traction. Lower pressure is as much a part of that as the rim width.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

Picked up the bike and wheels today. Immediate test ride. Forgot to take a pic of just the wheels before they got dirty.  Loved 'em!


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks everyone who has contributed to this thread. I'm building my first set of wheels and went with the CarbonBicycle 35/29 asymmetric 29er rims and Hope Pro 4 hubs. I was looking at the Sapim Laser spokes with brass nipples, but was not sure of the proper lacing pattern? Is 3x okay to use on both the front and rear (drive & non-drive side)? Using an online calculator with an ERD of 589mm, it gives me 286 & 284mm spoke lengths for both the front and rear wheels.


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

steelhmr said:


> Thanks everyone who has contributed to this thread. I'm building my first set of wheels and went with the CarbonBicycle 35/29 asymmetric 29er rims and Hope Pro 4 hubs. I was looking at the Sapim Laser spokes with brass nipples, but was not sure of the proper lacing pattern? Is 3x okay to use on both the front and rear (drive & non-drive side)? Using an online calculator with an ERD of 589mm, it gives me 286 & 284mm spoke lengths for both the front and rear wheels.


3x is fine as far as I'm concerned. If it's 32 spokes I don't see any reason not to copy the high end carbon wheel companies and do different lacing patterns on different different sides and wheels. Was thinking about copying my specialized roval carbon lacing pattern or someone else's. Of course if you do radial lacing in any section it's best to have a hub that is designed for it.

Others will weigh in. I've built a few pairs of wheels there are others on here who have built hundreds.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

I went with 2x after reading a paper about the pros and cons of the different lacing patterns, and also after reading the lacing philosophy of Nox and Enve.
Making it simple, because alloy rims are soft, they are laced 3x so they can have more vertical stiffness, on the other hand carbon rims are already vertically stiff and you don't need/want the extra vertical stiffness of the 3x, so they lace their carbon wheels with 2x so that the wheels can have more lateral stiffness, and lateral stiffness is never too much .

But you can lace your wheels with any combinations you want, as long as your hubs allow it, meaning radial is probably out of question and 4x is also probably out of question.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Givmedew said:


> 3x is fine as far as I'm concerned. If it's 32 spokes I don't see any reason not to copy the high end carbon wheel companies and do different lacing patterns on different different sides and wheels. Was thinking about copying my specialized roval carbon lacing pattern or someone else's. Of course if you do radial lacing in any section it's best to have a hub that is designed for it.
> 
> Others will weigh in. I've built a few pairs of wheels there are others on here who have built hundreds.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


How many spoke holes do you have? Roval are hard to copy because they use different number of spokes on each side, so the number of holes in the rim have to be divided by 3, like 27 (9 spokes on one side, 18 in the other) or 24. 9 spokes per side is too little for me, even if they are radial. It creates more load on the spokes in that side.


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

CrozCountry said:


> How many spoke holes do you have? Roval are hard to copy because they use different number of spokes on each side, so the number of holes in the rim have to be divided by 3, like 27 (9 spokes on one side, 18 in the other) or 24. 9 spokes per side is too little for me, even if they are radial. It creates more load on the spokes in that side.


Not sure what you are talking about are you saying you need 3 different sizes of spokes total or something? My guess is you need 4 different sizes of spokes.

If your saying what I think your saying then I don't have the wheels you speak of.

My wheels have 32 holes front and rear with 16 spokes per side. The front has 16 radial and 16 3 cross rear is all 3 cross.

Other companies have there own way of doing things... It's worth reading about and deciding if you want to go traditional or not. Some brands are running spokes in the opposite direction in certain circumstances. Some of it makes sense some of it doesn't. But I think maybe even Sheldon Brown speaks to why running one pattern on one side and another on the other is beneficial... He is speaking of the rear on a rim brake bike but that topic applies to the front wheel of a disc bike (not so much the rear as it would with rim brakes)

If I'm not mistaking and a wheelsmith could chime in but running a 2x or radial on the front non brake side is done to increase the final tension on those spokes which is good because otherwise they run much lower than the disc side.

Read up on it... Anyways I always build road rears like that and I want to say I got the idea from Sheldon Brown.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

The roval wheels I have seen have in the front different number of spokes in each side. Like 8/16 or 9/27, which means the number of holes have to be divided by 3 (24, 27, 30).

Example: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/components/roval-control-sl-29-142/106092


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

CrozCountry said:


> The roval wheels I have seen have in the front different number of spokes in each side. Like 8/16 or 9/27, which means the number of holes have to be divided by 3 (24, 27, 30).
> 
> Example: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/components/roval-control-sl-29-142/106092


OK so that's the difference!

Mine are indeed 142+ but maybe not SL or whatever because those only have 24 front and 28 rear spokes. At 200LBs I would ruin them!

Not sure what all they did my guess is the front has less drive side spokes for the same reason I was mentioning earlier it will increase their tension and get them closer to the tension of the brake side. The reason why we run offset holes on some builds is this same thing... Ultimately trying to get more tension on what would be the longer spokes by making them shorter or making them have to pull further.

Sounds like they took it to the extreme. I've laced enough wheels with different lace patterns on drive vs non drive to know that playing these tricks is ultimately good for the spokes and wheel stifness... Not to mention the stay true longer... If you can't tighten your longer spokes tight enough they can bend as your riding over and over and over and over until they break.

Anyways you can't go wrong with 3x on a MTB since the front isn't really that big of a deal if you have 32 spokes and having discs means the offset in the rear isnt as bad as on a road bike. So tensions are close enough

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Has anyone used this rim? I am running the light-bicycle 38/31.6 rims with a 32mm depth on my other bike currently and I was wondering how different these would feel with vertical compliance and lateral stiffness. Also wanted to see if anyone had any experience with the durability of this particular design. 40psi seems like a pretty low pressure limit. Thanks!

Hookless all mountain carbon rim 35mm wide 23.5mm deep for 29er &27.5er mountain bike - Hookless Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


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## Givmedew (Sep 4, 2014)

rusty904 said:


> Has anyone used this rim? I am running the light-bicycle 38/31.6 rims with a 32mm depth on my other bike currently and I was wondering how different these would feel with vertical compliance and lateral stiffness. Also wanted to see if anyone had any experience with the durability of this particular design. 40psi seems like a pretty low pressure limit. Thanks!
> 
> Hookless all mountain carbon rim 35mm wide 23.5mm deep for 29er &27.5er mountain bike - Hookless Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike
> View attachment 1065873


I don't think the PSI limit has anything to do with the strength of the wheel. That said I believe Stan's pressure limit is right around the same. Personally I'd never run over 40LBs on a MTB but I know someone who did on a pair of Stan's Arch wheels and it blew a hole in the Stan's Rim Tape which is not a big deal... You just take the tire off clean it out and install new tape. I think he had like 70LBs in it because he was running cross tires on pavement.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Interesting thanks, I'd never tires at 40psi but sometimes a get very close to those pressures when seating tires with a compressor.


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## n1x0n (May 23, 2012)

Where can I buy these Sapim CX-Delta spokes used by many Chinese wheel builders ?

Rgs


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

sunvalleylaw said:


> Picked up the bike and wheels today. Immediate test ride. Forgot to take a pic of just the wheels before they got dirty.  Loved 'em!


Well, I wanted to report that after several rides, I am very happy so far. It is hard to separate how the new wheels are, as the whole bike is brand new to me, and I never rode the old wheels. But, they roll great, feel nice and light in terms of getting the rig up off the ground, feel plenty stout, and I have been having a ball on my new ride. Again, these are the Carbon Bicycle 35/30 carbon hoops, that are $145 each per rim, shipped ends up $*3*40 to your door. I used DT Swiss 350 hubs, and DT Swiss Comp spokes, silver. Thanks to all, especially eb1888, for the help.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Went ahead and ordered the things. Hoping they are being conservative on the 15 day lead time. Don't want to wait 3 weeks to get these things!


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

n1x0n said:


> Where can I buy these Sapim CX-Delta spokes used by many Chinese wheel builders ?
> 
> Rgs


It seems almost wheels CarbonSpeed builds with Sapim CX-Delta spokes: DSS-HR927C 29er mtb hookless wheels 27mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

n1x0n said:


> Where can I buy these Sapim CX-Delta spokes used by many Chinese wheel builders ?
> 
> Rgs


Half a year back I had the same question as you, the only place where I could find reference to them was in some old Sapim catalogs and Alibaba/Aliexpress results in google.
Couldn't find them online in any European store, I think they have been discontinued by Sapim.


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## n1x0n (May 23, 2012)

Maybe I just pick up some spokes from https://www.bike24.com instead, they have some has pretty good prices.



Aglo said:


> Half a year back I had the same question as you, the only place where I could find reference to them was in some old Sapim catalogs and Alibaba/Aliexpress results in google.
> Couldn't find them online in any European store, I think they have been discontinued by Sapim.


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## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

dirtyjack said:


> I picked up my 29" wheels from the shop today and gave them a thorough beating in my local boneyard at race pace. I noticed a huge difference from my Crests before I left the parking lot. They accelerate faster and they are just point n shoot. Railing corners was much more precise.
> 
> I built the wide rims (3k matte)with CX Rays on American Classic's with black DT brass nipples, Stan's tape and valves. Front came in at 700g (40g less that my Crests with Force spokes, alu nips and AC hubs). The rear was identical to the crest at 840g. Very pleased with the look too. No pictures, they're already muddy.
> 
> I moved the tires off the Crests, both went on with hand pressure. Front is a RaRa 2.4, rear an Ikon 2.2 Both tires sealed with compressor and no Stan's, then removed the valve cores and added a cup into each.


Since I don't see too many long-term reviews, I thought I would post an update on my experience with Light Bicycle rims.

After almost 3 years or abusing these wheels, I've probably replaced 2 or 3 spokes on the rear wheel, and can't honestly remember having to true them other than when replacing spokes. My shop owner was on the fence about using the CX-Ray's, he thought they might be too stiff, but I'm happy with that choice. The rims are sporting lots of external scratches, but no signs of stress or cracks anywhere. I only wish I had gone directly to a 30mm internal width rim rather than the 25's, but other than that I've been very pleased with the rims and the wheels that my LBS built up.

I'm 170lb and not a huckster, but I do love pounding through the chunk on my Tallboy.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

dirtyjack said:


> Since I don't see too many long-term reviews, I thought I would post an update on my experience with Light Bicycle rims.
> 
> After almost 3 years or abusing these wheels, I've probably replaced 2 or 3 spokes on the rear wheel, and can't honestly remember having to true them other than when replacing spokes. My shop owner was on the fence about using the CX-Ray's, he thought they might be too stiff, but I'm happy with that choice. The rims are sporting lots of external scratches, but no signs of stress or cracks anywhere. I only wish I had gone directly to a 30mm internal width rim rather than the 25's, but other than that I've been very pleased with the rims and the wheels that my LBS built up.
> 
> I'm 170lb and not a huckster, but I do love pounding through the chunk on my Tallboy.


Nice report! I feel the same about how mine (Carbon Bicycle) feel to me, (the quicker spin up, more precision, point and shoot, plus I feel like I get them up off the ground a LOT easier than my old ones), but since the whole bike is new, and I have never had carbon wheels before, I was not sure what was what in terms of what I was feeling. I hope I have the same long term experience that you have had.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

has anyone any experience with ******** / Hulksports ?


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

mmm maybe the fact that its name is censored should tell me something


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

sunvalleylaw said:


> Well, I wanted to report that after several rides, I am very happy so far. It is hard to separate how the new wheels are, as the whole bike is brand new to me, and I never rode the old wheels. But, they roll great, feel nice and light in terms of getting the rig up off the ground, feel plenty stout, and I have been having a ball on my new ride. Again, these are the Carbon Bicycle 35/30 carbon hoops, that are $145 each per rim, shipped ends up $240 to your door. I used DT Swiss 350 hubs, and DT Swiss Comp spokes, silver. Thanks to all, especially eb1888, for the help.


145*2=290 and shipping is 64USD to USA so its 354USD total no? (or else how did you get them for 240USD only?)
Looks cool!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

boubla said:


> 145*2=290 and shipping is 64USD to USA so its 354USD total no? (or else how did you get them for 240USD only?)


Shipping for two of those is $50 to USA on my computer. So $340 and his 240 is just a typo.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

boubla said:


> 145*2=290 and shipping is 64USD to USA so its 354USD total no? (or else how did you get them for 240USD only?)
> Looks cool!





eb1888 said:


> Shipping for two of those is $50 to USA on my computer. So $340 and his 240 is just a typo.


This is true. Shipping was $50 flat, rims were $145x2 so $290 + $340 total including shipping. Will go back up and correct the typo now.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

A friend of mine was interested in purchasing the hoops I used from Carbon Bicycle. Reguler 35/30, not Asym. They were "on sale" for $145 each before shipping. Can't find them now on the site. Anyone have a current link or did they move on from that product? If so, too bad. @eb1888??

EDIT: I emailed them to see if they are still available. If not, I guess Nextie or Light Bicycle will have something very similar.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Just received a 35/30 rim (not asym) from Light Bicycle. Took 4 weeks from the day I ordered it to when I received it yesterday. $180 plus the $50 to ship. (I saw the Carbon Bicycle sale two days after I ordered mine). Rim looks beautiful. I kinda hate to get it dirty.

Anyway, it's another option. Not as cheap as Carboncycle's blow out sale but...if they're out of em...Light Bicycle is still one of the best deals out there.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Aight!
I ordered from carbonbicyle not long ago as well and rim USA flat rate shipping was 64USD not 50USD for me btw. Maybe because I got spokes in the package as well, don't know.

Light bicycle is cool but their asymmetric rim price is crazy. Can get them cheaper in the US! Hopefully they'll change that in the future.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm about to start building up my 35/29 asymmetric wheels. I placed my order to CarbonBicycle on April 14th and they arrived at my house (Pittsburgh, USA) on April 26th. There was a scratch on the rim that appeared to have occurred during shipping and after emailing a rep about it they gave me a small refund for the hassle. They respond very quickly and I hope the rims turn out as good as their service. The rims were 415 grams each, which is the upper limit of the stated range on their website. 

Anyway, my truing stand is on the way and I hope to have it done by this weekend. I was told that the ballpark spoke tension targets were 120 kgf on the drive side and 100 kgf on the non-drive side. Would those be the approximate targets for the front wheel as well? Just curious what kind of numbers people were getting. I'm 165 lbs, btw.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I bring tension up in stages. Stress relieve several times. So when you get the drive side up to 120 the nds will be what it ends up for the dish. 100+ sounds good. The brake side gets 120 for the front.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

boubla said:


> Light bicycle is cool but their asymmetric rim price is crazy. Can get them cheaper in the US!


Who sells those carbon rims in the US?


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

So the person/department I dealt with via email for my rims at Carbonfan emailed my back after I asked and said they still sell those 35/30 hookless rims I used, but that their website was being updated, and you cannot find them right now on the site. Supposed to be fixed in several hours.

EDIT: if you still don't see them I bet you can email them and ask for the standard 35/30 rims and they would help you out. just a guess.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

eb1888 said:


> I bring tension up in stages. Stress relieve several times. So when you get the drive side up to 120 the nds will be what it ends up for the dish. 100+ sounds good. The brake side gets 120 for the front.


I greatly appreciate your response. If you have a moment, could you briefly describe what you mean by 'stages' and 'stress relieve'? My plan was to bring the D and ND sides up rather evenly until around 90-100kgf. At that point I would take the D side up towards 120 and, like you said, then bring the ND side up to the point of dish.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

steelhmr said:


> I greatly appreciate your response. If you have a moment, could you briefly describe what you mean by 'stages' and 'stress relieve'? My plan was to bring the D and ND sides up rather evenly until around 90-100kgf. At that point I would take the D side up towards 120 and, like you said, then bring the ND side up to the point of dish.


I like to use Permatex Anti-Seize on spoke threads. You can bring the wheel up to 90 or so on the drive side and bring the nds up as needed to maintain dish. I put the hub on the floor on a magazine. Wrap another mag around the rim at 6 o'clock and kneel on it. Lean forward and press down the rim at 10 and 2 o'clock to flex it. Rotate the rim 15 degrees and repeat for a full rotation. Use the valve hole as a marker. Flip and repeat. Bring the wheel up to 105-110 drive and nds to maintain dish. Repeat the flex. Bring it up to 120-125 and finish the dish. Repeat flex. Do a final truing. Mount and inflate a tire. Check tension. Ride it. Check true.
Stress relieving multiple times by flexing the wheel during the build is fundamental to your quality build.
This side flex is what a wheel without enough spoke tension can do under cornering or bump stress to allow one or more spokes to be loose enough so the nipple can unthread. Some machine built wheels don't get stress relief and when you ride them the pinging leads to loose spokes because of it.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

steelhmr said:


> I greatly appreciate your response. If you have a moment, could you briefly describe what you mean by 'stages' and 'stress relieve'? My plan was to bring the D and ND sides up rather evenly until around 90-100kgf. At that point I would take the D side up towards 120 and, like you said, then bring the ND side up to the point of dish.


Round, true, and dish the wheels when they have little to no tension, then add tension in stages evenly to both sides. You'll go through a much smoother process and end up with a better wheel build, guaranteed. :thumbsup:


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

eb1888 said:


> I like to use Permatex Anti-Seize on spoke threads. You can bring the wheel up to 90 or so on the drive side and bring the nds up as needed to maintain dish. I put the hub on the floor on a magazine. Wrap another mag around the rim at 6 o'clock and kneel on it. Lean forward and press down the rim at 10 and 2 o'clock to flex it. Rotate the rim 15 degrees and repeat for a full rotation. Use the valve hole as a marker. Flip and repeat. Bring the wheel up to 105-110 drive and nds to maintain dish. Repeat the flex. Bring it up to 120-125 and finish the dish. Repeat flex. Do a final truing. Mount and inflate a tire. Check tension. Ride it. Check true.
> Stress relieving multiple times by flexing the wheel during the build is fundamental to your quality build.
> This side flex is what a wheel without enough spoke tension can do under cornering or bump stress to allow one or more spokes to be loose enough so the nipple can unthread. Some machine built wheels don't get stress relief and when you ride them the pinging leads to loose spokes because of it.





meltingfeather said:


> Round, true, and dish the wheels when they have little to no tension, then add tension in stages evenly to both sides. You'll go through a much smoother process and end up with a better wheel build, guaranteed. :thumbsup:


Awesome stuff! Thank you both very much


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

Hey guys, figure this is the place to ask questions about rim choice.

So, LB caught my attention, and I am thinking about a set of rims to replace the wheels on my Lynskey Pro29 Lefty. Currently the wheels are Stan's, with a ZTR Race up front, and a Crest out back. I picked this bike up from a wealthy friend who ended up not liking the sizing, as I would have gone with stouter wheels myself, having experience with lighter Stan's rims needing frequent truing. 

So, current Stan's specs say both should be about 24mm internal width, however these are a few years old, so I am not sure if they are that wide or not. I run Icon's and Ardent's in 2.35 and 2.4, respectively, and am basically in love with those tires. The new move to wider rims makes a lot of sense, but I can't say I fully understand what internal width I should be looking at. I am 170ish without gear, and ride in Boise where the trails are well groomed most of the time, with a few rocky sections I approach VERY conservatively. So, I typically don't demolish wheels, but I really want something that will last as long as I don't do something stupid. So, LB has the RM29C19 at 24mm internal, and the RM29C07 at 30mm internal, with the former being roughly what I have now, and the latter obviously a bit wider. Is the extra width worth it? It should, I would imagine, also be a little bit stronger, which is obviously a plus to me. 

Where I get tripped up is the massive amount of companies selling rims similar to this now, and if I order, I want to make sure I go with the right company. LB, CB, Yishun (ACE) etc... this thread has hundreds of pages so I doubt I will receive a consensus, but from those who have graciously gone before me, what are your recommendations for me and my riding style? I want to keep it in the general price range I am looking at, so no NOX, Derby, etc. 

I also may be ordering the new Marin Pine Mountain 1 that is going to be released soon, so I was thinking about getting 4 rims at once to cut down on shipping, and also possibly getting a better deal from whoever I order from, anyone have experience with a slight bulk discount?

Thanks!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

garcia said:


> Hey guys, figure this is the place to ask questions about rim choice.
> 
> So, LB caught my attention, and I am thinking about a set of rims to replace the wheels on my Lynskey Pro29 Lefty. Currently the wheels are Stan's, with a ZTR Race up front, and a Crest out back. I picked this bike up from a wealthy friend who ended up not liking the sizing, as I would have gone with stouter wheels myself, having experience with lighter Stan's rims needing frequent truing.
> 
> ...


Their website says the Race is 21.3mm internal.

The Crest is 21mm internally as well.

You could go wider in front, narrower in rear. That's what I'm running, and really like it.

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## jboyd122 (Jan 8, 2010)

If you're aren't going to race the bike and wheel weight isn't a primary concern go with the 30mm internal width. It's the ideal rim width for the tire sizes you're running.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

garcia said:


> Hey guys, figure this is the place to ask questions about rim choice.
> 
> So, LB caught my attention, and I am thinking about a set of rims to replace the wheels on my Lynskey Pro29 Lefty. Currently the wheels are Stan's, with a ZTR Race up front, and a Crest out back. I picked this bike up from a wealthy friend who ended up not liking the sizing, as I would have gone with stouter wheels myself, having experience with lighter Stan's rims needing frequent truing.
> 
> ...


Hey Garcia! I am in Sun Valley, and know your Boise conditions for the most part, at least the foothills stuff. Haven't done Bogus yet. I hope to soon. Maybe this weekend when I am over there for a kids soccer tourney.

Anyways, I recently purchased the Carbon Bicycle 30 ID and 35 OD hoops. You will see them a page or so ago on my Kona. They are very nice, and a big improvement over my narrow rims I had previously on my old bike. I think they would be great for your trails there in Boise. They work great up here on the stuff that is open so far in and around Hailey. They also seem nice and true so far, and built up well.

If not Carbon Bike (I understand they are still available), LB or Nextie make similar. I think with your tires, the 30 inner diameter works great. I run a very similar set up with a 2.4 ardent up front and a 2.25 Ardent on the rear right now. I weigh about 10 more pounds than you and ride well groomed trails in SV and also approach rocky or tough sections a bit conservatively, though the new geometry of my new bike, and the new wheels with lower tire pressure, is helping me develop more confidence to let it flow a little better. Not sure I will ever be a north shore hucker, but hopefully these wheels will help me relax and flow more. So far it sure seems so. They also spin up better (for 29's) and get off the ground better than my former wheels. I would encourage it. Hope that helps!


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

sunvalleylaw said:


> Hey Garcia! I am in Sun Valley, and know your Boise conditions for the most part, at least the foothills stuff. Haven't done Bogus yet. I hope to soon. Maybe this weekend when I am over there for a kids soccer tourney.
> 
> Anyways, I recently purchased the Carbon Bicycle 30 ID and 35 OD hoops. You will see them a page or so ago on my Kona. They are very nice, and a big improvement over my narrow rims I had previously on my old bike. I think they would be great for your trails there in Boise. They work great up here on the stuff that is open so far in and around Hailey. They also seem nice and true so far, and built up well.
> 
> If not Carbon Bike (I understand they are still available), LB or Nextie make similar. I think with your tires, the 30 inner diameter works great. I run a very similar set up with a 2.4 ardent up front and a 2.25 Ardent on the rear right now. I weigh about 10 more pounds than you and ride well groomed trails in SV and also approach rocky or tough sections a bit conservatively, though the new geometry of my new bike, and the new wheels with lower tire pressure, is helping me develop more confidence to let it flow a little better. Not sure I will ever be a north shore hucker, but hopefully these wheels will help me relax and flow more. So far it sure seems so. They also spin up better (for 29's) and get off the ground better than my former wheels. I would encourage it. Hope that helps!


I saw that, and your username, and figured you resided a little ways east of here!

Thanks for the input, especially given the similar tire choices. Seems like CB, LB, and all of the others have similar reviews and experiences, some good, some bad. I just hope that with my... non aggressive (or read otherwise, kind of pansy) riding style that I will be one of those with good luck. It'll come down to price, most likely, given the relatively similar nature of the different choices.

As for Bogus, I have only been here a year and never made it up there last year, but I have been told by some people I ride with to not expect Around the Mountain to be open till after Memorial Day. If you plan on going for a ride in the foothills next weekend shoot me a PM and I can try to meet up!


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

Hey guys, I received a PM from Peter at Carbon Speed. What have been the results of using his wheels? I have been through a huge portion of the recent thread history thusfar, but his rims aren't as popular it seems as LB, CB, Nextie, Derby, etc, but he does have some pretty darn good prices.

Thanks!


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

garcia said:


> Hey guys, I received a PM from Peter at Carbon Speed. What have been the results of using his wheels? I have been through a huge portion of the recent thread history thusfar, but his rims aren't as popular it seems as LB, CB, Nextie, Derby, etc, but he does have some pretty darn good prices.
> 
> Thanks!


My experience with HR933C asymmetric and without internal spoke holes, from them, has been flawless.
For the last 5 months I have put them to some abuse and they are awesome.
At the time he was the only one with that design and at one unbelievable price, for me it was a no brainer.
He even helped me with some troubles I had with my country customs, and was really quick to reply.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

So Rude ...............


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## Tarjei Hofset (Sep 29, 2013)

Just wanted to share my experinence with the DH940C from XMCarbonspeed. Hit Peter up with a mail last fall and he responded super quick and answered every quenstion with great detail. Rims were ordered, and arrived to Norway quickly. They were massive and spot on the claimed weight. Building went smooth, and I've been railing them every chance I get. They have been exposed to a beating which would have dented and bent alloy wheels. (Went through 3 sets of flow EX rims on last wheelset). 
They are still 100% round and true, with some "battle scars," but just scratches in the paint, no structural damage what so ever. I've gotten 3 of my friends to order the same rims from Peter and all of them have been equally satisfied!

Link to the rims: DH940C 29er DH carbon mtb rim 32mm depth 40mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## SpecialCshoe (Mar 29, 2016)

Gents 

I had ordered carbon wheels from Yishunbike recently and I have been very satisfied with pricing for the pair (409) and the overall customer service is very efficient given the huge time zone difference.
I should be receiving my wheels via Ems sometime today or tomorrow. I plan on documenting this build and using Novatec 881 hubs, Dtswiss Champion spokes and nipples. The total cost for everything is coming in under 600 dollars for all the parts including rimstrips and tubless valve stems. 
Ill keep everyone updated as I go


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

About a month in here and still loving the LB rims. Nice and lightweight and the super wide rims are super nice. I'm never going back to sub 30mm ID wheels again, the extra traction is just awesome 


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

CrozCountry said:


> Who sells those carbon rims in the US?


various ebay resellers


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Got mine from Carbon Bicycles (Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike) a little while ago and they've a bit of mileage now (still brand new though, I'll report again if there's changes).

So far:

- customer service was excellent, even thus I bothered them with a bunch of questions and specific needs, they've been fast and nice!

- The rims look great. I inspected them for a while and found no issue. ERD 1mm off on one of the rim, that's it (not an issue/pretty common)

- Got em build here in the US for a little fortune with the pillar bladed spokes and nipples, 28h, and DT240s hubs that came from switzerland (DT240S centerlock straight pull with boost spacing front/rear, turns out these really *just* came out)

I made some jumps on the trail, some more on the street, etc. So far love em. Just as stiff as I wanted em (asymetric + boost seems to make things really good in that area).

Oh and for weight weenies, rims came out at 380gr and 390 grams, wheelset came out at around 1440gr (yeah that's extremely light for the size)

would buy again.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

Nice! Still liking mine very much as well. For my weight (mid 180's now), with a 2.25 ardent in the rear and a 2.4 ardent up front, I need 24 or 25 pounds in the rear, and maybe 23 or so in the front to avoid clunks. I am going to move up to a 2.4 ardent in the rear and consider a 2.4 minion up front when I replace tires. But for me, the difference is very distinct. If I fall below that number in the rear, on that tire, it is not enough. Front tire seems more flexible. Performance of the rims seems excellent. such an improvement!


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Two CarbonFan 29mm 29er rims. Both have the exact same weight, 3 gm over spec, and specified ERD to with in fraction of a MM. They look perfect, but I haven't built them into a wheelset yet. Followup communication on the order and shipping was perfect and the rims arrived ahead of schedule by several days.


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

boubla said:


> Got mine from Carbon Bicycles (Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike) a little while ago and they've a bit of mileage now (still brand new though, I'll report again if there's changes).
> 
> Oh and for weight weenies, rims came out at 380gr and 390 grams, wheelset came out at around 1440gr (yeah that's extremely light for the size)
> 
> would buy again.


Which rim width did you order? That weight is very nice. Just a little more than my 30mm external width LB rims.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

2002maniac said:


> which rim width did you order? That weight is very nice. Just a little more than my 30mm external width lb rims.


cbrm29ah24-30















hubs are dt240 sp cl (so not cheap) spokes are sp pillar 1420 cut at 298/299mm, nipples are pillar 734


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## j_h_cole (May 8, 2013)

Considering purchasing a wheelset from Light Bicycle after reading plenty of generally positive reviews.

I am having a tough time deciding which rim profile and layup option to choose. I ride a 2016 Spec. Stumpjumper FSR, and at its base comp level it was spec'd with 2150g roval fattie 29mm internal width wheelset. Because of this oe spec I'd like to stay around ~30mm internal width, but I'd also like to shave as much weight as possible. I'm pretty set on using DT 240s hubs, but would appreciate any input on which profile & layup you would choose (also which spokes of the ones available in their configurator).

About me: 6'3", 200lb w/ gear, I ride all singletrack in the southeast, a descent bit of rock gardens, I like to descend aggressively, but I'm not a huge jumper (nowhere close to an enduro rider).

Thanks for the input!

Total spec review:
29", needs to be around ~30mm, would prefer 1650g or better final weight
FR: 15x100, 6-bolt DT 240s (j-bend)
RR: 12x142, 6-bolt DT 240s (j-bend)










carbon mountain bike wheelset-mountain wheel,mtb wheel,mountain bike carbon wheel,carbon mtb wheels,carbon mtb wheelset Light-Bicycle

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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

@j_h_cola - I got the LB rims with 30mm internal diameter and love them. I run a Magic Mary on the front and that thing is amazing. Super wide and has insane grip. Sounds like your stock wheels are already wide, so it's unlikely you'll see the kind of huge improvement in grip I did, but you might consider going with the 31.6" ID wheels. There will be a bit of a weight penalty, but IMO it's easily offset by the added control on the descents and you will still have a wheelset that's nearly a pound lighter than your old set.



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## j_h_cole (May 8, 2013)

Thanks to all that have commented & DM'ed. I'm leaning towards the 31.6mm internal width but with the AM layup instead of HD. 

Would anyone see any problems with running the pillar or sapim spokes?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Only problem would be if your hub's spoke holes diameter happen to be smaller than the wide of the blade in the Pilar or Sapim spokes, but nowadays practically all the hub's spoke holes are at least 2.4mm wide.
Going by DT, the holes in 240s are 2.5mm wide, and going by Sapim the CX-Ray are 2.3mm wide, don't recall the wide on Pillar's, but I know they have some that are over 2.5mm wide.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

I believe I went with the Pillar bladed spokes because they were advertised as being tougher. I think next time I'll just go with some normal double butted spokes though. It feels a bit ridiculous having "aero" spokes when I'm running wide rims and a big front tire. 



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## cleanneon98 (Jul 12, 2014)

Hey guys, I have a 2015 fuel ex9 tubeless with 2.3 tires. I can get away with a 2.4 up front but i think the rear will max out at the 2.3 size. Currently on bontrager rhythm comps, not sure on the ID. Riding is XC and trail, looked at the lightbicycle site at a few options but really confused by a lot of things like the various hubs and other misc bits. I am considering the 29c14 set just not sure how to outfit them with the other components. Me building my own wheels is out of the question, I'd rather just order a completed item from them.

Suggestions?


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Ogre said:


> I believe I went with the Pillar bladed spokes because they were advertised as being tougher. I think next time I'll just go with some normal double butted spokes though. It feels a bit ridiculous having "aero" spokes when I'm running wide rims and a big front tire.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


bladed spokes are more than just "aero".
They're much easier to setup because you can visually see by how much they turn, specially for straight pull type hubs.
They're tougher
They sing in the side winds ;-)

But yeah basically it's not about the looks. No need to feel ridiculous. All spokes are beautiful  (I take bladed whenever possible for the above advantages actually, both on my road and mtb - and the pillar are well priced)


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

boubla said:


> bladed spokes are more than just "aero".
> They're much easier to setup because you can visually see by how much they turn, specially for straight pull type hubs.
> They're tougher
> They sing in the side winds ;-)
> ...


I haven't heard them sing in the side winds yet, but I do feel a little less silly.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

I've built three wheelsets with pillar bladed spokes. Two with Derby rims and one with Nextie. Haven't broken one yet. Plenty of rocks in the southwest where I ride.

It's kinda a toss-up for the DIY'er on whether they are easier to build with. You can build to higher tensions with carbon rims and an aero spoke holder makes it much easier to prevent wind-up. Especially when you don't have stainless eyelets or you're not using washers. I also like the DSN pillar nipples for the deep seated rims.

Anyhow, I don't feel silly and nobody notices your wheels anyway unless they've got big Enve stickers on them that say steal me.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

I got my light bicycle wheels with no branding at all and they look sharp, total stealth. Not Enve but lots of envy... 


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

cleanneon98 said:


> Hey guys, I have a 2015 fuel ex9 tubeless with 2.3 tires. I can get away with a 2.4 up front but i think the rear will max out at the 2.3 size. Currently on bontrager rhythm comps, not sure on the ID. Riding is XC and trail, looked at the lightbicycle site at a few options but really confused by a lot of things like the various hubs and other misc bits. I am considering the 29c14 set just not sure how to outfit them with the other components. Me building my own wheels is out of the question, I'd rather just order a completed item from them.
> 
> Suggestions?


29er Hand-built Endro Downhill carbon fiber wheelset 38mm wide tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle
Here's a common configuration with my preferred hubs and brass nipples to avoid galvanic corrosion.

WM29C14 
Front axle:15 / 100mm
Rear axle:12 / 142mm
Freehub body:Shimano MTB 10/11S
Brake system:6-bolt
Front holes:32H
Rear holes:32H
Spoke head:J-bend
Hub Color:Black
Hub Brand:dt Swiss
Hub Model:350
Version:All Mountain
Spoke:dt Swiss Competition Race
Nipple:Brass Black
Finish:matte
Weave:UD
Decal:No
Valve Stem:None
Tubeless Tape:None

I would ask to have the Paypal fee dropped. Paypal doesn't allow that. $801.

If you want a competing price that will likely be lower email this setup to carbonbicycle for a build with their 36/30.8mm rim.
Hookless carbon 29er MTB wheelsets, 36/35/30/27mm wide, AM&DH, tubeless compatible - carbon wheel (hookless) - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike
I'd ask for Sapim Laser j spokes in black with Sapim brass nipples.


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

j_h_cole said:


> Considering purchasing a wheelset from Light Bicycle after reading plenty of generally positive reviews.
> 
> I am having a tough time deciding which rim profile and layup option to choose. I ride a 2016 Spec. Stumpjumper FSR, and at its base comp level it was spec'd with 2150g roval fattie 29mm internal width wheelset. Because of this oe spec I'd like to stay around ~30mm internal width, but I'd also like to shave as much weight as possible. I'm pretty set on using DT 240s hubs, but would appreciate any input on which profile & layup you would choose (also which spokes of the ones available in their configurator).
> 
> ...


200 pounds and an aggressive descender? Get the slightly heavier rims. Why risk the investment for such a minimal weight loss?


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## BartP (Mar 16, 2013)

The 35/30 rims have the "old" shape with a more flattened area where the spoke holes are. The newer U shaped rims are rounder there which makes them stronger.


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

Built up a set of Nextie 29er asymmetric 38mm external rims for my Carbine last month and have put around 400km on them and they have been great all around.

Easy to build, stiff, tubeless aired up easily and just tested the blunt force ability. 

Chickened out on gap jump at the last second and landed hard on sharp rocks which put a sidewall cut into my tire. The rim was fine. I was positive i had cracked it given the sound I heard when I hit but got it home, took the tire off and put it in the truing stand and all good.

Pretty happy right now.


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm officially joining the club. Picked up some Nextie NXT29AM40 rims during their 3 year sale.

Ordered July 12
Shipped July 16
Arrived (in Canada) July 27.

500g and 496g.

The black decals look awesome. They aren't as visible in real life as they are in the pic.

Build quality looks perfect.

These are getting laced to my Hopes with CX-Rays for my Honzo Ti.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Received and laced my 45/39 29er Asym rims from Carbonbicycle.cc. (https://www.carbonbicycle.cc/proshow.php?cid=77&tid=49&id=242#.V5oXc1RHanM).

These are my 3rd set of (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims, and so far so good. 
First set are LB 'wider 29er' rims that I've been thrashing for 3.5 years. Second set were from Carbonbicycle 27.5" Asym rims for the gf.

These new 45s laced up easy and are straight and true. Tubeless, and running 12 psi in the 29x3.00 tires. The tires mounted up tubeless with NO trouble and seated with a loud 'POP'. (The 27.5's mentioned above also gave a good pop when the beads seated.) I love these hookless rims and how well they hold the head on the rim bed.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Anyone get the asym 34mm iw rims from carbonbicycle and have some feedback?

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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

boubla said:


> cbrm29ah24-30
> 
> hubs are dt240 sp cl (so not cheap) spokes are sp pillar 1420 cut at 298/299mm, nipples are pillar 734


just a little feedback after about a couple of month of riding around hard.. they're still perfect! yay


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

jacksonlui said:


> Anyone get the asym 34mm iw rims from carbonbicycle and have some feedback?


If you're thinking of 2.8" or wider tires I'd go with the 39mm iw rim.
I'd like to see if they could extend this design to 44mm iw. 45 even better.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Picked up a set NXT29WC38 Asymmetric built on BHS hubs.

They are amazing so far. Not sure why I waited so long to grab some Carbon wheels.

Sent from the Beer Cloud


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

39mm would be too big for 2.3 tires. I had wanted to be able to use 2.8 and 2.3. Figured 34mm is a decent compromise 

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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

jacksonlui said:


> 39mm would be too big for 2.3 tires. I had wanted to be able to use 2.8 and 2.3. Figured 34mm is a decent compromise
> 
> Sent from my SM
> 
> 34 for the rear and 39 for the front. Bontrager has a rounded profile and the XR4 Team 2.4 could be used as a front and rear. But once you use a 2.8 front that will likely be your primary tire. 39 will get more out of it.


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## stand-up-pride (Nov 23, 2007)

ok I'm that guy.

Any feedback on Hulk Sports?

Smoking deal for asymmetrical rim

29er 33mm Wide Carbon MTB Bicycle Rim MTB Offset Rims Hookless Asymmetric | eBay


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Ive just put my order in for a set of 40/34mm ASM 27.5 from Carbonbicycle. Cant wait to have these laced up.

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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

What's the deal on asymmetrical rims anyhow? any advantage?


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

To even out the tension between the drive side and non drive side of the wheel for a stronger wheel. Theoretically 

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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

jacksonlui said:


> To even out the tension between the drive side and non drive side of the wheel for a stronger wheel. Theoretically
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Hummm...how spoke length is calculated? These online tools are usually for normal rims right?


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

andrepsz said:


> Hummm...how spoke length is calculated? These online tools are usually for normal rims right?


I believe the spokes would be the same length, as long as the flanges are equal in diameter. It's been a LONG time since I built an asymmetric rim though.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Joe Handlebar said:


> I believe the spokes would be the same length, as long as the flanges are equal in diameter. It's been a LONG time since I built an asymmetric rim though.


I would imagine if there is enough thread it could be the same, but one side would be sticking out of the nipple more than the other?!


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Its not really the same length but they are really close. Its best to find an online tool that lets you input the offset

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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc

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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Thats what i used

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## spikebike (Apr 26, 2007)

andrepsz said:


> Hummm...how spoke length is calculated? These online tools are usually for normal rims right?


Spoke length calculators often have support for specific hubs/rims, or let you use your own values. It often takes some digging to get all the numbers, but once you have them you can use a site like: 
Spoke Calculator for bicycle wheels | Prowheelbuilder.com

It allows separate values for center of hub to right flange and center of hub to left flange.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

In the calculators, you input a value for the distance of each flange from the center line. If you use asymmetric rims, you input the distance from the offset to the flanges. e.g. if the rim holes are offset 3mm to the NDS, then the DS flange distance increases 3mm and the NDS flange distance decreases 3mm. The change in calculated spoke length is pretty small, about +/- 0.3 mm.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Ok...that's me asking completely without any research. So the offset rotation direction is....to the left of the non drive side right? And is pointless to have asymmetric rim on the front right?


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

There is still some offset because of the disc brake i believe. 

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## spikebike (Apr 26, 2007)

andrepsz said:


> Ok...that's me asking completely without any research. So the offset rotation direction is....to the left of the non drive side right? And is pointless to have asymmetric rim on the front right?


On the rear wheel the offset is towards the non-drive side (the one with the disc instead of the cassette).

On the front wheel the offset is towards the drive side (to help with the offset for the disc brake).

Asymmetric is a minor tweak. The spoke lengths are a bit closer, the spoke tensions are a bit closer, and the flange angle is a bit closer. Not the difference between a strong wheel and a weak wheel. But if you have a wider rim anyways (which is the trend) why not make a wheel a tiny bit stronger? Similar philosophy for boost vs not boost hubs. Not to address any glaring problem, but just a tiny evolutionary change that makes a wheel either a tiny bit stronger or a tiny bit lighter.

I wouldn't however recommend asymmetric rims with hubs designed for equal spoke lengths, then you are getting the worst of both worlds. Your hub would be heavier for the larger flanges, and with an asymmetric rim you wouldn't have the hoped for same spoke lengths.

Not that same spoke lengths are that big a deal, but if you break a spoke or two it's nice to have to stock one side spoke instead of 2 (or 3). Granted it's pretty rare (in my experience) to actually carry spare spokes on the trail unless you are bike camping or touring where any mechanicals you have over days or weeks needs to be handled by yourself.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

spikebike said:


> On the rear wheel the offset is towards the non-drive side (the one with the disc instead of the cassette).
> 
> On the front wheel the offset is towards the drive side (to help with the offset for the disc brake).
> 
> ...


Very nice explanation, thanks! I'll be building a Wheelset soon and I'm shopping for rims...goal is:

Rear - DT Swiss 350 straightpull, center lock, XD with 30mm width carbon rim.

Front - DT Swiss 350 straighpull, center lock, Boost 110mm with 35mm Carbon rim.

What do you think? Asymmetric is not necessary?


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I havent been able to find a SP boost DT 350 hub , maybe they arent available yet. Like the previously poster said, its not necessary, just an incremental improvement. 

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## spikebike (Apr 26, 2007)

andrepsz said:


> Very nice explanation, thanks! I'll be building a Wheelset soon and I'm shopping for rims...goal is:
> 
> Rear - DT Swiss 350 straightpull, center lock, XD with 30mm width carbon rim.
> 
> ...


Designing wheels is complicated. Straight pull is fine, but it's mostly a fix to a non-problem. Quality spokes are plenty strong and aren't flawed because they aren't straight.

Generally I'd pick the hubs that have the quality/reputation that you are after. Also consider how loud the freehub is, it can vary significantly from brand to brand. Then similar for the rims. Then let the tiny details fall into place, they don't matter so much. Given the change I'd recommend double butted spokes of straight gauge. They are lighter *AND* make for a strong wheel. Assuming 32 spokes or so 2.0/1.8/2.0 are nice strong reliable spokes (assuming quality spokes).

If there are features you like left, like assymetric vs non, straight pull vs traditional, etc then sure have fun picking.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

spikebike said:


> Designing wheels is complicated. Straight pull is fine, but it's mostly a fix to a non-problem. Quality spokes are plenty strong and aren't flawed because they aren't straight.
> 
> Generally I'd pick the hubs that have the quality/reputation that you are after. Also consider how loud the freehub is, it can vary significantly from brand to brand. Then similar for the rims. Then let the tiny details fall into place, they don't matter so much. Given the change I'd recommend double butted spokes of straight gauge. They are lighter *AND* make for a strong wheel. Assuming 32 spokes or so 2.0/1.8/2.0 are nice strong reliable spokes (assuming quality spokes).
> 
> If there are features you like left, like assymetric vs non, straight pull vs traditional, etc then sure have fun picking.


I'm choosing the straight pull version because the front BOOST hub is already available, I can find the matching rear Hub, they are affordable and of course also for the looks...(they look great compared to traditional flanged version).

I never built a wheel before and this is going to be my first time. Yes I would like to go as light as possible, so yes I'll be in the search of the lightest spokes available out there. I know that Sapim Super Spokes are quite light but not as expensive as Pillar X-TRA Lite Ti. Both hubs will have 28 holes.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Super spokes are about $3 while lasers are $1. Its good if youre willing to spend the money for 40g of savings per wheel.

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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

If you order your rims from XMCarbonspeed.com, they sell CX-Ray spokes for $2.15 each and you will save roughly 100 grams versus DT or Sapim double butted spokes. 

I just had a wheelset built with some painted XMCarbonspeed HR935C rims, Hope Pro4 Boost hubs, and CX-Ray spokes and the set weighed in at 1725 grams. No paint and lighter hubs could have brought the total below 1600.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

BXCc said:


> (...)
> I just had a wheelset built with some painted XMCarbonspeed HR935C rims, Hope Pro4 Boost hubs, and CX-Ray spokes and the set weighed in at 1725 grams. No paint and lighter hubs could have brought the total below 1600.


Yes you could, with Tune King Kong Boost hubs you would save 164g just in the hubs .
CX Ray are good and strong spokes and I wouldn't chose something lighter just for the sake of saving 40g or even less. Going by Sapim numbers the CX ray are far superior compared to any other spokes they have. But they are expensive.
I laced a pair of XMCarbonspeed HR933C with Sapin D-Light and I'm very happy with those, a couples of rides ago a twig got between my spokes resulting in locked rear wheel, but the spoke survived and was only slightly bent.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

jacksonlui said:


> Super spokes are about $3 while lasers are $1. Its good if youre willing to spend the money for 40g of savings per wheel.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


you mean 40g saving going with laser spokes? what are those? also from Sapim?


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

BXCc said:


> If you order your rims from XMCarbonspeed.com, they sell CX-Ray spokes for $2.15 each and you will save roughly 100 grams versus DT or Sapim double butted spokes.
> 
> I just had a wheelset built with some painted XMCarbonspeed HR935C rims, Hope Pro4 Boost hubs, and CX-Ray spokes and the set weighed in at 1725 grams. No paint and lighter hubs could have brought the total below 1600.





Aglo said:


> Yes you could, with Tune King Kong Boost hubs you would save 164g just in the hubs .
> CX Ray are good and strong spokes and I wouldn't chose something lighter just for the sake of saving 40g or even less. Going by Sapim numbers the CX ray are far superior compared to any other spokes they have. But they are expensive.
> I laced a pair of XMCarbonspeed HR933C with Sapin D-Light and I'm very happy with those, a couples of rides ago a twig got between my spokes resulting in locked rear wheel, but the spoke survived and was only slightly bent.


Wait a sec....so xmcarbonspeed actually build a full set for you? is that what you guys did? how much they charged for shipping and how much was the wheelset cost?


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Going with super spoke will save you 80g total but costs 3x more and isnt as stiff as other spokes. If youre lighy it doesnt matter

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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

andrepsz said:


> Wait a sec....so xmcarbonspeed actually build a full set for you? is that what you guys did? how much they charged for shipping and how much was the wheelset cost?


Yes and no

Yes, Peter at XMCarbonspeed can have the wheelset built for you. He supposedly has DT Swiss, Bitex, Novatec, and ExtraLite hubs available now. They also use Sapim spokes and can sell or use any version you like. These were the second set of rims I got from him and they have been great so far.

No, XMCarbonspeed did not build my wheelset. I just got the rims and spokes from them. My LBS provided the hubs and labor, and I got the Sapim nipples off of eBay.

Here is the price breakdown
Rims - HR935C (30mm inner) rims painted to the Pantone color code I provided, 64 CX-Ray spokes (needed 56 and bought 8 extra), shipping to the US and Paypal fees came to $545.
Hubs, labor, and nipples came to $400 not including the state taxes. So the total was just under $950.
They were built using 28 hole hubs and 2x lacing pattern.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

I don't know if they build a wheelset for you, but you can ask them. They sell complete wheelsets with different hubs and rims for you to choose, so it's not impossible for them to build a wheel for you.
At the time, last fall, I paid 55USD for shipping the rims to Europe.
You can also buy spokes with niples directly from them, but as I'm from Europe I did get my spokes and niples directly from an european online store at a cheaper price even including the shippings.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

jacksonlui said:


> Going with super spoke will save you 80g total but costs 3x more and isnt as stiff as other spokes. If youre lighy it doesnt matter
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


but since we are in a Chinese carbon thread, going with CX-Rays from the same vendor of the rims will cost 2x the price of DT Comps and save 100g. And are as strong as most anybody needs.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Aglo said:


> Going by Sapim numbers the CX ray are far superior compared to any other spokes they have.


Taken from Sapim website:

Super spokes: 
Weight: (64 pcs x 260 mm lg) 231 g
Quality: Special stainless steel
Strength on middle section: 2900 N/mm2

CX-Ray:
Weight: (64 pcs x 260 mm lg) 272 g
Quality: AISI 302
Strength on middle section: 1600 N/mm2

2900 is better than 1600...right? Super Spokes wins and is lighter from what I'm reading.

Sorry....I don't mean to hijack the thread. I'll stick with rims subjects.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

andrepsz said:


> (...)
> 
> 2900 is better than 1600...right? Super Spokes wins and is lighter from what I'm reading.


Yes, going by strength in middle section and it's respective area, even if the middle section area of the CX-ray is bigger, it's certainly not that bigger.
When I wrote "far superior" I was not referring to the strength but to stress resistance of the CX-ray.
Unfortunately I was using as a reference the the Sapim catalogue from 2012, that didn't had the Super spokes listed at the time, the catalogue from 2014 already has the Super spokes listed and they are even better than the CX-Ray in terms of fatigue resistance.

Thanks for correcting me.

For anyone wanting to compare the the fatigue resistance of the different spokes from Sapim, you can check the catalogue available on their site.

I'm going to crawl under some rock now .


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Aglo said:


> Yes, going by strength in middle section and it's respective area, even if the middle section area of the CX-ray is bigger, it's certainly not that bigger.
> When I wrote "far superior" I was not referring to the strength but to stress resistance of the CX-ray.
> Unfortunately I was using as a reference the the Sapim catalogue from 2012, that didn't had the Super spokes listed at the time, the catalogue from 2014 already has the Super spokes listed and they are even better than the CX-Ray in terms of fatigue resistance.
> 
> ...


Aglo, never meant to challenge you, I really just wanted to double check if what I was reading was accurate, thanks for contributing to this.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

I didn't take it as a challenge, don't worry about it.

Now returning to the regularly scheduled programming&#8230; (cheap) Chinese carbon rims.

P.S.-link to Sapim catalogue page : Download catalog | Sapim


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

You guys are practically paging Melting Feather with all of this quoting of Sapim strength figures!

In the past, he (and others) have cast serious doubt on the CX-Ray superiority over Lasers, as they have the same construction and cross sectional area, just squished flat for better aero, which doesn't matter in this application, and a significant upcharge.

Super Spokes do appear to be stronger than CX-Rays based on those figures, which I can't weigh in on. However, when it comes to stiffness, Super Spokes will be more flexible, so you could essentially use a few fewer CX-Rays or Lasers and come out with the approximately same stiffness and weight as Super Spokes (ie. 24 CX-Rays vs. 28 Super Spokes).


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

TheKaiser said:


> ...when it comes to stiffness, Super Spokes will be more flexible, so you could essentially use a few fewer CX-Rays or Lasers and come out with the approximately same stiffness and weight as Super Spokes (ie. 24 CX-Rays vs. 28 Super Spokes).


I might be confusing you 'stiffness' therm with Mid section strength. Looking at 2900 on super spokes against 1600 on mid section for CX-Ray to me that would mean the opposite...less super spokes on one wheel to be equivalent to Cx-Ray strength.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

andrepsz said:


> I might be confusing you 'stiffness' therm with Mid section strength. Looking at 2900 on super spokes against 1600 on mid section for CX-Ray to me that would mean the opposite...less super spokes on one wheel to be equivalent to Cx-Ray strength.


The difference in stiffness-
Superspokes are more flexible. To get the same level of flexibility in the wheel you could use fewer Lasers. 
Mid section strength-
In doing that you give up a lot of mid section strength because Lasers start out with less mid section strength to begin with.

A very light rider doing less stressful riding like smooth XC might do that. For other rider weights and usages more wheel testing info than we have is needed. Other variables like 2x vs 3x also have to be factored in.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

When it comes to flexibility of the wheel, it would be good to get the Modulus of Elasticity of the spoke. It would be ideal if manufacturers publish those numbers, so we can properly compare spokes and wheel builds. For me it is more important than the strength at failure point.


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## hartswood (Aug 3, 2016)

I want to overcome the initial inertia and improve the sideways stability of my Cube branded DT Swiss X1700 29er & Nobby Nics. The wheelset weighs 2 kg with IW 22mm. I'm 90kg and ride XC in southern England. After reading this thread I've decided to target a maximum wheel set weight of 1.5kg and a minimum inner width of 28mm.

After much searching I came across these Toray T800 33mm and 36mm asymmetric rims, both weighing 370g. Unlike LB etc there appears to be no user feedback on MBTR. I'm tempted by the 36mm supplied as wheel set with Novatec 771/ 772 hubs and Pillar 1420's delivered for just over USD 500.

https://xmcarbon.en.alibaba.com/pro..._mtb_rims_36mm_width_24mm_depth_hookless.html

https://xmcarbon.en.alibaba.com/pro...ic_or_hookless_3_years_warranty_mtb_rims.html

Are they too light for me or does the use of T800 significantly improve strength? Would I notice much difference between the characteristics of T800 and T700? They make their own rims and trade as Yuanan Bike on Aliexpress. Any feedback appreciated.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

stand-up-pride said:


> ok I'm that guy.
> 
> Any feedback on Hulk Sports?
> 
> ...


I find that they are helpful to resist the deformation of speeder. :skep:


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## blacktrekfuelex (Aug 2, 2012)

Hi, I just built a 29er wheelset using DT 350 boost straight pull hubs, sapim laser spokes and carbon Yishun 30mm OD rims with 3mm spoke offset, the spokes length worked out to be the same for both wheels front and rear left and right.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

The holes are lined up closer to the non drive side?
Sounds like a really light set of wheels. Nice.

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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

jacksonlui said:


> The holes are lined up closer to the non drive side?
> Sounds like a really light set of wheels. Nice.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Yes.
They are called asymmetric rims. It's not only the holes that are asymmetric, also de profile of the rim is asymmetric.
When I build my set it allowed me to use the same spoke length, 272mm, in both wheels and both sides.
But the major feature is that allows to better balance the tension of the spokes in both sides of the wheel, contributing to a stronger long lasting wheel.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

hartswood said:


> I want to overcome the initial inertia and improve the sideways stability of my Cube branded DT Swiss X1700 29er & Nobby Nics. The wheelset weighs 2 kg with IW 22mm. I'm 90kg and ride XC in southern England. After reading this thread I've decided to target a maximum wheel set weight of 1.5kg and a minimum inner width of 28mm.
> 
> After much searching I came across these Toray T800 33mm and 36mm asymmetric rims, both weighing 370g. Unlike LB etc there appears to be no user feedback on MBTR. I'm tempted by the 36mm supplied as wheel set with Novatec 771/ 772 hubs and Pillar 1420's delivered for just over USD 500.
> 
> ...


Having no direct experience, but having followed this thread and spent time looking at the various carbon wheel sites, I will say 370 is super light for a rim, especially at that width. A hundred grams more is typical, although sure there are XC layups that are that light. ( again, typically not so wide )

not sure that helps you much ... but worth considering?


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

I believe T800 is lighter for the same amount of stiffness/strength compared to T700. It has better strength to weight ratio, this could account for the remarkable light weight.
Also the overall depth of 24mm is not very deep, this also helps with weight.

I'd suggest emailing the vendor directly with some valid questions and see what type of reply you get. If they reply timely and informative... those may be a solid option.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

TheKaiser said:


> You guys are practically paging Melting Feather with all of this quoting of Sapim strength figures!
> 
> In the past, he (and others) have cast serious doubt on the CX-Ray superiority over Lasers, as they have the same construction and cross sectional area, just squished flat for better aero, which doesn't matter in this application, and a significant upcharge.
> 
> Super Spokes do appear to be stronger than CX-Rays based on those figures, which I can't weigh in on. However, when it comes to stiffness, Super Spokes will be more flexible, so you could essentially use a few fewer CX-Rays or Lasers and come out with the approximately same stiffness and weight as Super Spokes (ie. 24 CX-Rays vs. 28 Super Spokes).





andrepsz said:


> I might be confusing you 'stiffness' therm with Mid section strength. Looking at 2900 on super spokes against 1600 on mid section for CX-Ray to me that would mean the opposite...less super spokes on one wheel to be equivalent to Cx-Ray strength.





eb1888 said:


> The difference in stiffness-
> Superspokes are more flexible. To get the same level of flexibility in the wheel you could use fewer Lasers.
> Mid section strength-
> In doing that you give up a lot of mid section strength because Lasers start out with less mid section strength to begin with.
> ...





CrozCountry said:


> When it comes to flexibility of the wheel, it would be good to get the Modulus of Elasticity of the spoke. It would be ideal if manufacturers publish those numbers, so we can properly compare spokes and wheel builds. For me it is more important than the strength at failure point.


Man, y'all were getting deep... I have not thought of this aspect regarding spokes.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

dimitrin said:


> Man, y'all were getting deep... I have not thought of this aspect regarding spokes.


When you're bored and you can't ride you have to occupy your mind with something  .

At CrozCountry, at one time in the past I used a spoke calculator with that information for each spoke, I recall most of the Sapim and DT Swiss line up were listed.
Unfortunately I don't recall what calculator it was.

But shouldn't we be taking about this in the wheel building forum, instead of the (cheap) Chinese carbon rim?


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## hartswood (Aug 3, 2016)

dimitrin said:


> I believe T800 is lighter for the same amount of stiffness/strength compared to T700. It has better strength to weight ratio, this could account for the remarkable light weight.
> Also the overall depth of 24mm is not very deep, this also helps with weight.
> 
> I'd suggest emailing the vendor directly with some valid questions and see what type of reply you get. If they reply timely and informative... those may be a solid option.


I've contacted them via Alibaba. They've been very helpful, sending photos of the production process, test reports and photos of stock rims. I've attached some of them below.

Re the test results attached at the bottom, I've got no idea if these are good or bad.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

That's very nice of you posting these. Now let's dig into reports....I love that stuff!


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## DDsinglespeed (Dec 25, 2008)

Does anyone have experience with "Dragon" Chinese carbon rims? Also , where are Roval carbon rims made?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

You can hask to him directly, he has a stiky thread here in the forum .


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## DDsinglespeed (Dec 25, 2008)

Aglo said:


> You can hask to him directly, he has a stiky thread here in the forum .


Thanks, I posted there now. Doesn't look like he's answered anything in the past month though.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Can't find 26" asymmetric! Any clue?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

andrepsz said:


> Can't find 26" asymmetric! Any clue?


Yeah... major shift away from product development.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Are you guys using washers? Seems like its an unnecessary step these days

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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> Yeah... major shift away from product development.


Bummer, planning on fitting a 26x2.4 tire with wide rims on a 2011 scalpel. Going with asymmetric would be cool.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Just came across this nice wheel, it's not tubeless ready rims but is boost hubs


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

andrepsz said:


> Just came across this nice wheel, it's not tubeless ready rims but is boost hubs


Dude, those are proprietary spokes, try break one and good luck finding a source...


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## leugene (Jun 20, 2008)

andrepsz said:


> Just came across this nice wheel, it's not tubeless ready rims but is boost hubs


Should be supalight!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

andrepsz said:


> Just came across this nice wheel, it's not tubeless ready rims but is boost hubs


That's a Mavic R-SYS wheel. It will kill you.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

meltingfeather said:


> That's a Mavic R-SYS wheel. It will kill you.


You are so right! I'm wondering if Mavic made money all this time with a patent that should never deserved to be granted.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I'm *just* beginning to seriously investigate carbon wheels and thinking of relacing my hubs to new hoops. 
I found these on eBay, and seem to tick all the boxes: 30mm inner, asym, decent weight, good price. 
Does anyone have experience/feedback regarding the vendor "HulkSports" and these rims:
29er 36mm Wide MTB Bicycle Carbon Rim MTB Offset Rims Hookless Asymmetric | eBay


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

ARandomBiker said:


> I'm *just* beginning to seriously investigate carbon wheels and thinking of relacing my hubs to new hoops.
> I found these on eBay, and seem to tick all the boxes: 30mm inner, asym, decent weight, good price.
> Does anyone have experience/feedback regarding the vendor "HulkSports" and these rims:
> 29er 36mm Wide MTB Bicycle Carbon Rim MTB Offset Rims Hookless Asymmetric | eBay


I'd like to know as well.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

ARandomBiker said:


> I'm *just* beginning to seriously investigate carbon wheels and thinking of relacing my hubs to new hoops.
> I found these on eBay, and seem to tick all the boxes: 30mm inner, asym, decent weight, good price.
> Does anyone have experience/feedback regarding the vendor "HulkSports" and these rims:
> 29er 36mm Wide MTB Bicycle Carbon Rim MTB Offset Rims Hookless Asymmetric | eBay





Dictatorsaurus said:


> I'd like to know as well.


They have a less than 97% score on 27 sales, I'd run away from them based on that alone.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

True, but I make a habit of actually reading the negative reviews to learn *why*. Some people are just mouth-breathers.

Of 27, there's one negative review, and the reviewer checked "negative" but his comments don't match. I suspect he's one of the mouth-breathing idiots that drag down internet sales ratings.








I'm not defending the seller, I agree 27 feedbacks is a short list, but the other 26 seem to actually address rim quality and are legit reviews.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

ARandomBiker said:


> True, but I make a habit of actually reading the negative reviews to learn *why*. Some people are just mouth-breathers.
> 
> Of 27, there's one negative review, and the reviewer checked "negative" but his comments don't match. I suspect he's one of the mouth-breathing idiots that drag down internet sales ratings.
> View attachment 1096188
> ...


Could be but I'd still let someone else be the test monkey.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

ARandomBiker said:


> I'm *just* beginning to seriously investigate carbon wheels and thinking of relacing my hubs to new hoops.
> I found these on eBay, and seem to tick all the boxes: 30mm inner, asym, decent weight, good price.
> Does anyone have experience/feedback regarding the vendor "HulkSports" and these rims:
> 29er 36mm Wide MTB Bicycle Carbon Rim MTB Offset Rims Hookless Asymmetric | eBay


That seems to be about 100g too light for a 29' 30mm inner rim. As a comparison, here's another 30mm inner which they quote at 450g ... 
29er 35mm Width MTB Carbon Rims Mountain Bicycle Rim Tubeless Compatible | eBay

One feature that I wish my carbon rims had (3years old from LB and still going strong) - angled spoke holes. I don't think that these hulk rims have these.

I'm conservative and I'd only buy carbon rims from an ebay seller that had sold 1000's of rims over a period of years and had a feedback rating of 99.5+%.


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## TheKaiser (Feb 5, 2014)

*Light Bicycle Promo Video...you gotta see this!*

I was blown away when I saw this video posted in the LB 38mm rim thread in the W&T forum, and I felt that many of the old school Cheap Chinese Carbon Rims followers would enjoy it. Many of you will remember the debate about 100pgs ago over if LB was a manufacturer, or just a reseller, and this included MTBR members going to the actual physical location of LB in China to try to confirm. I had thought the consensus was that they drill onsite, but are buying rims from some other company, perhaps Nobl.

Well...LB seems to have commissioned some Brooklyn hipsters to make them a promo video to put those doubts to rest. It's far out. It feels like watching a fair trade artisanal coffee roaster promo:


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

TheKaiser said:


> I was blown away when I saw this video posted in the LB 38mm rim thread in the W&T forum, and I felt that many of the old school Cheap Chinese Carbon Rims followers would enjoy it. Many of you will remember the debate about 100pgs ago over if LB was a manufacturer, or just a reseller, and this included MTBR members going to the actual physical location of LB in China to try to confirm. I had thought the consensus was that they drill onsite, but are buying rims from some other company, perhaps Nobl.
> 
> Well...LB seems to have commissioned some Brooklyn hipsters to make them a promo video to put those doubts to rest. It's far out. It feels like watching a fair trade artisanal coffee roaster promo:


I feel dirty.
I wonder what the truth batting average for that video is. We'll never know...


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## Espen (Feb 19, 2004)

I returned some LB rims a while back, and the address was not the same as the standard shipping address.


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## Curler (Oct 31, 2005)

The video has Nancy! It must be true!


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> I feel dirty.
> I wonder what the truth batting average for that video is. We'll never know...


Haha...

Whatever rim you buy from China...it'll pretty much be coming from one city. Sooner or later people will start figuring out what factories the rims are coming from.

The companies that make carbon rims don't make just carbon rims. If you look at some of the facilities...they are bloody huge. They make all kinds of carbon goods. Rims are just one of them. They also make other carbon goods from hockey sticks, bats, car parts, etc.

I bought a rim from XMapex at Interbike. Now the rim came with a tag. On this tag and on the rim is a part number. Its the same part number thats on Nextie's "Premium" rim.

Take a look at the part number. On the tag and on the rim. The pic of the rim is a bit blurry, but you can still make out the part number.

















Now look at the part number on Nextie's site.

"[*NXT27XM36*] PREMIUM 36mm Width Carbon Fiber 27.5" / 650B Mountain Bike Clincher Rim [Tubeless Compatible]"

[NXT27XM36] PREMIUM 36mm Width Carbon Fiber 27.5" / 650B Mountain Bike Clincher Rim [Tubeless Compatible]

I'll let you guys draw your own conclusions.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I agree that all the rims come from one or so manufacturer and that some are standard off the shelf pieces sold by multiple sites. But sellers do also have rims they own the molds for made to their own design. The asym rims from Carbonbicycle are an example. They designed those from input from here. I saw profiles before they started having them built. I'm sure LB and Nextie have some designs of their own also.









CBs engineer came up with this in a few days at 39mm id.


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## OFFcourse (Aug 11, 2011)

Eyeing up a set of rims for a 27.5+ the 36mm ID rims from carbonbicycle.cc are about the width I'm after. I've had light bicycle sets before everyone been happy with carbonbicycle.cc ?

Hookless 650B(27.5er) mtb 42mm wide AM/ENDURO carbon rims tubeless compatible - Hookless Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I've got 5 more rims on order. Two of which are 27.5+ i39 asym rims...and not from Carbonbicycle.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

RS VR6 said:


> I've got 5 more rims on order. Two of which are 27.5+ i39 asym rims...and not from Carbonbicycle.


Where from?


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Ive had LB before and now Carbonbicycle. Very happy with both companies.

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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I'd be truly surprised if carbonbicycle rims didn't come from the exact same facility as virtually every chinese-made carbon rim. My guess is that the same guy who did the layups to make a Nextie rim on Monday swapped out molds and did CarbonBicycle rims on Tuesday.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Probably. I care about price and quality and both companies have produced. It takes a month for them to get to your door but if you plan ahead its not bad.

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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

ARandomBiker said:


> I'd be truly surprised if carbonbicycle rims didn't come from the exact same facility as virtually every chinese-made carbon rim. My guess is that the same guy who did the layups to make a Nextie rim on Monday swapped out molds and did CarbonBicycle rims on Tuesday.


I honestly don't even think there are any special molds for any one company (although I'm not dismissing the possibility). If you look at the rims...there is nothing really separating them from one another. Pretty much all the producers of the carbon rims are in Xiamen. The trading companies set up an office there also. All they need to do is go from manufacturer to manufacturer to source their rims.

If they can meet a minimum, there is a good chance the manufacturer will make a mold for you. Now if the manufacturer still owns that mold...then they will produce for whoever asks. These molds are pretty expensive to make...so it's very unlikely that a two or three man operation will be able to afford to buy their own molds.

It's possible for companies like LB and Nextie grew enough to afford their owns molds...at the same time there is nothing really proprietary about their rims either. So I really don't see why they would want to spend money on their own molds. Lol...even if they did have their own molds and shapes...there is a good chance whatever shape they come up with will be copied in no time flat.

The only other thing I can really see possibly differentiating the rim from one another is the layup and resin used...but how the heck are you going to prove that your did indeed use a different layup and resins. I mean...we don't have real proof that the big brand guys do it...besides them telling us that they do.

The asymmetrical carbon rim seems to be the next up and comer...and if they are you'll see them all over Alibaba in the net few months.

These are nothing more than my thoughts...so it should not be taken any other way.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

^^^I completely agree with you.
And I will give an example, I got my rims from Peter, at the time only him had the rims in the configuration that I wanted, asymmetric, 26mm ID, and 3.5mm walls. Couple of months later Nextie or LB, don't recall witch one or if both, had the exact same rim, with the exact same spec's and weight. Coincidence? Not in my opinion...


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> I honestly don't even think there are any special molds for any one company (although I'm not dismissing the possibility). If you look at the rims...there is nothing really separating them from one another. Pretty much all the producers of the carbon rims are in Xiamen. The trading companies set up an office there also. All they need to do is go from manufacturer to manufacturer to source their rims.
> 
> If they can meet a minimum, there is a good chance the manufacturer will make a mold for you. Now if the manufacturer still owns that mold...then they will produce for whoever asks. These molds are pretty expensive to make...so it's very unlikely that a two or three man operation will be able to afford to buy their own molds.
> 
> ...


I'm not dismissing any of what you say, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that at least LB (maybe others like Nox?) does in fact pay to develop and protect their own molds that aren't generic. Some supposition about the slow adoption of asym rims by others. I have no idea whether they can/do enforce it. I agree there isn't much difference in brands or specs.
I agree that layup configuration is hard to prove. Though naive, I want to believe that companies who are trying to build a real brand beyond an eBay store are legit in their claims. Nextie is pretty vocal about offering a choice of layup angles: 30 and 60, or 45. I'm not sure how you could/would prove that, but it seems like a lot of effort to fake and the cost to reputation is a big gamble if you're caught. 
When I see an Easton ec90 bar on eBay, shipped from china for $30 with poor english in the posting and no effort toward legitimacy, I expect that to be a lie. I have more faith in the truth from a company with employees and a "brand".

Shrug. my opinion is just some dude talking. I want to feel good about my rims so I'm guilty of confirmation bias. For all I know my rims were bought in a lot of 500 from a truckbed in a dark corner of a chinese alley and are no better than the shadiest ad on Alibaba.com and made by some 12 year old high on drugs.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Pretty much all of what goes on here is pretty much all speculation. 

I'm not dismissing businesses have their own molds at all. I mean that is probably the best way of protecting their own designs. I just don't think it makes that much financial sense in putting in tens of thousands on molds for designs that can be potentially copied real fast.

No name carbon bars are something I will never use. Rims, frames, saddles...I'll run...but no way I'll take a chance on a handlebar.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I broke the only carbon bar I've ever owned. a real, honest, authentic Easton ec90sl riser bar, purchased from Competitive Cyclist. I don't know what caused the failure, but it crumpled and bent where the 'riser' levels off to the 'grip part' when I was bunny-hopping in my driveway setting up a fork. could have been something I did, but it failed, nonetheless.
I replaced it with a RaceFace Turbine alloy bar. 
I'm not really that jazzed about *ANY* carbon handlebar. It's definitely not logical, but carbon frames are triangles that reinforce themselves, carbon wheels are circles with spoke tension for reinforcement. 
Somehow, a very long lever clamped in a narrow vice with reasonably sharp edges and forces applied to the outermost ends just seems.....nope. 

shrug. I'm crazy. I'd probably not have carbon wheels if I could get alloy to perform as well, but it only took one ride to realized that metal can't come close. I figure they're all made in the same building, and there's enough of them out there that my chances of defective failure is low, and a broken rim is probably not catastrophic and crash-inducing. I got lucky with the handlebar.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

ARandomBiker said:


> I broke the only carbon bar I've ever owned. a real, honest, authentic Easton ec90sl riser bar, purchased from Competitive Cyclist. I don't know what caused the failure, but it crumpled and bent where the 'riser' levels off to the 'grip part' when I was bunny-hopping in my driveway setting up a fork. could have been something I did, but it failed, nonetheless.
> I replaced it with a RaceFace Turbine alloy bar.
> 
> Shrug. I'm crazy.
> I figure they're all made in the same building, and there's enough of them out there that my chances of defective failure is low, I got lucky with the handlebar.


Your logic is irrefutable. That's why I'd have zero problems with the failure cause the repeat probability is de minimis.. Call Easton and get another. It'll be like my Easton carbon bars and most of the others-repeatedly beat on and no problems.ie. the SC frame video.

I like the fact that each of these small marketers isn't building their own rims. One manufacturer means better quality for all is more likely.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> I've got 5 more rims on order. Two of which are 27.5+ i39 asym rims...and not from Carbonbicycle.





Le Duke said:


> Where from?


+1 on that . . . who has the 39mm internal 27.5 rims?


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> +1 on that . . . who has the 39mm internal 27.5 rims?


I'll play...RS VR6, care to share?


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Lol...I'll post up when I receive the rims in hopefully in a couple weeks. I don't want to hype a place before I get the rims.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Ha ok. Found this...another clear clone of LB in almost every way. e45/i39, 460g, $165.
29er 45mm wide rim all mountain Enduro strong bicycle carbon rim, tubeless ready, "mid fat bike" rim


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Good find but those two rims are way different. 
The match is with CB rims. Like this one. EXCEPT the weight is 20g lighter. And that means less carbon layers. So consider that and your use.
[NEW] Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM&DH hookless rim 45mm wide - Asmymetric Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

MattMay said:


> Ha ok. Found this...another clear clone of LB in almost every way. e45/i39, 460g, $165.
> 29er 45mm wide rim all mountain Enduro strong bicycle carbon rim, tubeless ready, "mid fat bike" rim
> 
> View attachment 1102118
> ...


You're not going to find much variation between the rims. Maybe some minor differnces in shape and depth. All these guys are in one town. So if they are a trading comapny...there is a good chance that they are sourcing rims from the same factories...and there should be multiple factries to choose from.

As for layup...if you contact the seller...they should offer you a choce of a "AM" or "Enduro" layup. With the Enduro being the heavier version.

When I ordered my rims...they asked what layup, type of drilling, and even Presta or Schrader.

I ordered the AM layup, UD matte finish, with standard drilling (since I wasn't sure what hubs I was going with), and Presta valve holes on all rims.

~$160 seems to be the standard pricing for rims coming straight out of China.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

The asym rimsive seem and purchased were closer ro 200 each with 50 shipping and takes 3-4wks lead time. Ive ordered from both LB and CB

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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Right. I posted the pics just to make the "clone" point...sites nearly identical...didn't mean the rims were. Sorry for confusion.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

jacksonlui said:


> The asym rimsive seem and purchased were closer ro 200 each with 50 shipping and takes 3-4wks lead time. Ive ordered from both LB and CB


That EIE 39mm id asym rim is 460g +/- 15g for 165 + 50 shipping for 2. 
So 445g(requested) rims for 380 shipped.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> Lol...I'll post up when I receive the rims in hopefully in a couple weeks. I don't want to hype a place before I get the rims.


No one thinks you're hyping anything. We just want to see an i39 rim option in 27.5. You say you ordered some, so what's the harm in sharing the source so we can see our options?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

MattMay said:


> Ha ok. Found this...another clear clone of LB in almost every way. e45/i39, 460g, $165.
> 29er 45mm wide rim all mountain Enduro strong bicycle carbon rim, tubeless ready, "mid fat bike" rim


Good find, nice to have more potential sources, but those are 29er i39. RSVR6 is saying he found a source for i39 27.5 rims.
I'm looking for: 27.5 rims with 39 or 40mm internal width, asym, with "slanted" 6 degree drilling or shaped/reinforced spoke holes.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Yeh I was trying to stay true to this thread being in the 29er Components but I did find this 27.5 w i39 in the Premium section of Nextie...maybe ask them about hole angles. http://www.nextie.net/premium-mountain-plus-NXT27XA45


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

you guys are daring trying some of the no name rims. if those crack on a fast downhill it could seriously hurt. light bicycle at least tests and improves their products and at $400-500 a pair is still cheap for carbon. the $100 ebay rims just seem risky


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

If you're looking for a group willing to take on risk...well mtbikers are towards the top of the list, obviously.
Of course you should spec all your equipment for the type of terrain and speed you'll be riding.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Anyone care to offer some insight on the advantages of the eyelet style rims vs a rounder profile for plus size tires, 2.8-3.0"? I am looking at these two from XMcarbon as I have had good dealings in the past with Peter.

HR742C 2015 NEW design 27.5er mtb carbon hookless rim 42mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

HR740C 650B carbon mtb rim hookless mtb 27.5er rim 40mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

Obviously there is a difference of 2mm in width, 60g in weight, and 5mm in depth but why the eyelet design? I am building up a set of 27.5 plus wheels for my GF. She is 115lbs. I know this is the 29er forum, but this thread is the best resource for chinese rims.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Ask him to clarify the use of 'eyelet'. I don't think those rims have metal eyelets. That seems to refer to the bump and offset spoke hole asym design. Wider is better so I'd go with it and request rims at the minus end of the weight allowance for your gf.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

Just a quick update on my carbonbicycle 35/30 standard shape rims. Road the entire season on them, loving them every ride. My first carbon rims and custom built wheels (using DT350 hubs and DT comp spokes). Held true extremely well. Had a few rock hits, and other than surface scuffs, no damage or problems. So far so good! Would buy again.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

MattMay said:


> Ha ok. Found this...another clear clone of LB in almost every way. e45/i39, 460g, $165.
> 29er 45mm wide rim all mountain Enduro strong bicycle carbon rim, tubeless ready, "mid fat bike" rim
> 
> View attachment 1102118
> ...


Hi Matt,

There are a lot of trading companies in China which often try to copy the more popular brands. This is another example of a company trying to clone our site which we spent many years building from scratch so it's unfortunate. It's easy to make a profile that looks similar, but this has very little to do with the performance of the product in comparison to having sound manufacturing processes. I see their logo is eerily similar to a certain high end brand as well...


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ARandomBiker said:


> I'd be truly surprised if carbonbicycle rims didn't come from the exact same facility as virtually every chinese-made carbon rim. My guess is that the same guy who did the layups to make a Nextie rim on Monday swapped out molds and did CarbonBicycle rims on Tuesday.


China produces tens of thousands of carbon rims each month, trust me the same guy isn't making all of the rims or layup schedules  It's true that many of the companies are trading companies which definitely adds to the confusion and misinformation. There are also a lot of different manufacturers which may or may not sell to the public. For Light Bicycle, we don't sell our rims through trading companies, but I'm sure you will find a lot of rims that will look similar at a glance.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> Good find, nice to have more potential sources, but those are 29er i39. RSVR6 is saying he found a source for i39 27.5 rims.
> I'm looking for: 27.5 rims with 39 or 40mm internal width, asym, with "slanted" 6 degree drilling or shaped/reinforced spoke holes.


Hi Inertia Man, We're building am asymmetrical 27.5 rim with a 40mm internal width right now, it's in the final testing phase and will be released at some point in late November. We can do custom drilling, but our standard is 6 degrees. For the spoke hole test, these are testing out to 400 kg/f before it can pull through (highest spoke tension used on wheels is about 130kg/f) so this is not going to be a concern for these.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Received them this morning. Ordered them 10-19. Left China on 10-29 and got them on 11-4 via FedEx.

Pic of the 39mm inner width 27.5 asym plus rim.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

hi guys
havnt been here for a while
using this Light Bicycle rims for 5 years now. moved from old design to new and wide
and now on asimetric 34mm rims.
wrote all about it on my site
hope you like it. you can use the translator on the site.

Light bicycle - ?????? ????? ????? ???. - ???? ?????? ????


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Has anyone purchased/used the Nextie NXT29WC38 rim? (32mm ID, asym)

I would like to know if the spoke holes are drilled "straight" (perpendicular to the rim surface) or drilled +/- 6 degree to position the nipple in line with the spoke direction to hub flange?

Sent the question direct to Nextie but have not been getting a response.

If LB had a 29er version of their EN733 it would be a good fit for one of my new wheelsets, but no sign that LB is doing this anytime soon.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Six degrees seems to be a pretty standard drilling. That's what I got when I asked them (Apex) for whatever is their normal drilling since I wasn't sure about the hubs I was going to use. Since alot of the companies don't produce the rim till you order...if you ask...they can usually do a custom drilling for you.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> Six degrees seems to be a pretty standard drilling. That's what I got when I asked them (Apex) for whatever is their normal drilling since I wasn't sure about the hubs I was going to use. Since alot of the companies don't produce the rim till you order...if you ask...they can usually do a custom drilling for you.


I'm not particularly concerned about the actual angle ( 6deg, 5 deg, whatever . . . so long as its not zero). All the early LB rims were straight drilled. I used many of those rims, and I found the non-angled holes to be undesirable. Unlike thin alloy rims which allow the nipple to pivot and align with the spoke (especially if eyelet'ed), the carbon rims are substantially thicker and effectively hold the nipple on-axis w/ the hole, with little/no ability to pivot. So I am unwilling to use straight-drilled holes anymore if I have other alternatives. Just wish there was some clarity in the spec from Nextie (or response to my inquiry).


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

InertiaMan said:


> Sent the question direct to Nextie but have not been getting a response.


I would interpret this "no response" as straight drilling, unless someone here actually got a rim from them drilled in an angle.

I don't think it's something you can ask them to do. It's done by a machine, so if they had it, the rims would probably come like that already. Unless you want them to do it with a hand drill 

You also have to wonder if they just drill a hole in an angle, or also rim the surface of the nipple seat in an angle (inside the rim).


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## psychler (Jan 9, 2009)

CrozCountry said:


> I would interpret this "no response" as straight drilling, unless someone here actually got a rim from them drilled in an angle.
> 
> I don't think it's something you can ask them to do. It's done by a machine, so if they had it, the rims would probably come like that already. Unless you want them to do it with a hand drill
> 
> You also have to wonder if they just drill a hole in an angle, or also rim the surface of the nipple seat in an angle (inside the rim).


I asked Nextie before I bought my first set and they said they drill the spoke holes on a 6 degree angle.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

FWIW: I got a set of rims from CB that were specified to be drilled at 6 deg. On other rims I've gotten angled drilling was fairly obvious due to the staggered big holes in the rim bed. On the CB rims I could not see any evidence of angled drilling in the stagger of either the holes in the rim beds or the nipple holes themselves. I had to put close fitting rod through the nipple hole to see that they were indeed drilled at an angle, and identify which holes to use for each side of the hub.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

CrozCountry said:


> I would interpret this "no response" as straight drilling, unless someone here actually got a rim from them drilled in an angle.


I received a response last night to my second inquiry, and they confirmed that the NXT27XA45 is drilled at +/-6 degrees.



CrozCountry said:


> You also have to wonder if they just drill a hole in an angle, or also rim the surface of the nipple seat in an angle (inside the rim).


As you're noting, when drilled at an angle, it leaves a non-perpendicular seating surface for the nipple inside. With most nipples, this is not a concern, since they have a curved/spherical lip which can seat off-axis. Some Sapim nipples specifically promote this shape. Useful as that is, though, it isn't helpful if the rim thickness effectively prevents the nipple from "tilting". Hence my focus on angled drilling.



Lone Rager said:


> FWIW: I got a set of rims from CB that were specified to be drilled at 6 deg. On other rims I've gotten angled drilling was fairly obvious due to the staggered big holes in the rim bed. On the CB rims I could not see any evidence of angled drilling in the stagger of either the holes in the rim beds or the nipple holes themselves. I had to put close fitting rod through the nipple hole to see that they were indeed drilled at an angle, and identify which holes to use for each side of the hub.


I've also used rims w/ angled drilling but w/o staggered holes. I found that dropping a spoke & nipple into a hole and seating it will usually show a subtle but noticeable "slant" to one side or the other. No doubt that wheels have been built by inattentive builders who don't bother to determine that orientation . . . and one thing worse than straight holes is -6 degree hole with a +6 degree spoke in it!


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Looking for 30mm external width, asymmetrical xc rim. I would like as light as possible. I have had great luck with Light Bicycle, but there wasn't as much choice 4 years ago as now. Other choices seem to be: Xia Men Yuan, CarbonFan, ebay (hulk), Nextie, Yishun, EIE and ACE. I'm sure some of these are made in the same factory and re-branded. Any other been there, done that experiences? TIA


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Andy13 said:


> Looking for 30mm external width, asymmetrical xc rim. I would like as light as possible. I have had great luck with Light Bicycle, but there wasn't as much choice 4 years ago as now. Other choices seem to be: Xia Men Yuan, CarbonFan, ebay (hulk), Nextie, Yishun, EIE and ACE. I'm sure some of these are made in the same factory and re-branded. Any other been there, done that experiences? TIA


That's going to give you a 24mm iw, which will match with heavy casing tires aimed more at dh speeds where lightest means cracked.
Otherwise you should consider 30mm inner width a minimum. Like the CB asyms of 29, 34 or 39.
When it says in the specs + or - 15g you can use the note to request rims at the minus end.
[NEW] Asymmetric Mountain bike 27.5er&29er AM hookless rim 40mm wide - Asymmetric Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike

You can match that with tires with a rounded profile like Bontrager XR Teams.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

^^^ I'm running CB's 29mm inner width asymmetric rims with XR3 and 4. The rims weighed 418gm against their 400 +/-15gm spec, close enough within the uncertainty of the scales. Wheelset is 1630gm, but of course that will depend on hubs and spokes. Running tubeless with Kapton tape rim strip.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Andy13 said:


> Looking for 30mm external width, asymmetrical xc rim. I would like as light as possible. I have had great luck with Light Bicycle, but there wasn't as much choice 4 years ago as now. Other choices seem to be: Xia Men Yuan, CarbonFan, ebay (hulk), Nextie, Yishun, EIE and ACE. I'm sure some of these are made in the same factory and re-branded. Any other been there, done that experiences? TIA


If you've been happy with your LB rims, it's not a bad idea to stick with them since you know what you'll be getting. As a return customer, they will offer you a discount too. Ive been very happy with the 3 sets I've owned.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I have been very happy with my LB 30mm external width rims (~385g), running IKON 2.2 and 2.35 for years and happy with the handling. Minor crack on one after many years and tons of miles. I am looking to build a similar or lighter wheel using an asymmetric rim. LB's lightest offering is either 28mm or 34mm ext. width, and $249/$269 plus shipping. The other companies mentioned are lighter and cheaper. I am still asking if anyone has good experience with any of these companies, especially if you bought a similar rim.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Andy13 said:


> I have been very happy with my LB 30mm external width rims (~385g), running IKON 2.2 and 2.35 for years and happy with the handling. Minor crack on one after many years and tons of miles. I am looking to build a similar or lighter wheel using an asymmetric rim. LB's lightest offering is either 28mm or 34mm ext. width, and $249/$269 plus shipping. The other companies mentioned are lighter and cheaper. I am still asking if anyone has good experience with any of these companies, especially if you bought a similar rim.


I see. Food for thought thought though. It probably doesn't matter for your situation considering what you're after, but those lighter rims probably have a lower weight capacity too. That, and you can request the rims be in the - xx weight range when you order. You may have to wait longer, but they will usually do it IME. The price is probably higher since the name is more well known, but it's worth seeing what your return customer discount will get you. I guess I should be more open minded, but I tend to stick with the more well known names if I'm going Chinese carbon, i.e. Nextie, LB. I think they have more to lose on the "word of mouth" gauge if things go wrong.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

I've been running 460 gram 29" 30 mm internal width rims with 3.5mm thick sidewalls, 32 spokes. I have been racing enduro on this wheelset on a 4" travel bike. Now I know that is far from ideal, but is what I currently own (a new bike is in the works). I weigh 175 ret to ride.
My concern is that I've cracked 2 of these rear hoops in almost 2 years. I'm wondering if it is because the rear suspension packs in after multiple hits and feels like a hard tail. The bike runs out of suspension and the rim gives in? Although when it happens there are often multiple destroyed rims at the event, carbon and aluminum, and on longer travel bikes. I'm beginning to wonder if I'd be better off with aluminum on the rear wheel of the new bike build, or if 140mm will be more forgiving and less prone to destroying rear rims.
Any thoughts on this?


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

dimitrin said:


> I've been running 460 gram 29" 30 mm internal width rims with 3.5mm thick sidewalls, 32 spokes. I have been racing enduro on this wheelset on a 4" travel bike. Now I know that is far from ideal, but is what I currently own (a new bike is in the works). I weigh 175 ret to ride.
> My concern is that I've cracked 2 of these rear hoops in almost 2 years. I'm wondering if it is because the rear suspension packs in after multiple hits and feels like a hard tail. The bike runs out of suspension and the rim gives in? Although when it happens there are often multiple destroyed rims at the event, carbon and aluminum, and on longer travel bikes. I'm beginning to wonder if I'd be better off with aluminum on the rear wheel of the new bike build, or if 140mm will be more forgiving and less prone to destroying rear rims.
> Any thoughts on this?


I am far from an expert but after seeing things like Santa Cruz testing their aluminum vs carbon frames I would continue to stick with Carbon all day over aluminum for strength. Carbon is a damn amazingly strong material and not that much more expensive for these wider rims than their aluminum counterparts.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Anyone have first-hand experience w/ spoke calculations for the Nextie 32mm internal asym 29er rim NXT29WC38? They spec the ERD at 579mm, but I'm measuring at 584mm.

Nextie has an FAQ/definition for ERD which indicates the measurement is taken not at the internal rim surface, but at the nipple base: What is ERD (Effective Rim Diameter)?

My measurement method used two exactly 250mm cutoff spokes threaded/glued to have threaded tip flush to slot (ie, includes nipple base thickness) so in theory should match Nextie's number.

If Nextie is saying one thing (includes nipple base) but doing another (measuring to internal rim wall) then the 584m versus 579mm would be reasonably well explained by the nipple base thickness.

Anyway, it would be very useful if anyone had similar experiences with this specific rim and can provide insight on how their length choices turned out after the build was done. Without additional data, I'll probably use 582 or 581 for calculations. Just want to avoid the case of almost-too-long-spokes (which happened with one of my LB builds years ago).


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

InertiaMan said:


> Anyone have first-hand experience w/ spoke calculations for the Nextie 32mm internal asym 29er rim NXT29WC38? They spec the ERD at 579mm, but I'm measuring at 584mm.
> 
> Nextie has an FAQ/definition for ERD which indicates the measurement is taken not at the internal rim surface, but at the nipple base: What is ERD (Effective Rim Diameter)?
> 
> ...


If you measure right, and it sounds like you did, then it doesn't matter what people who don't know what they are doing or talking about say, even in the unfortunate case that those people happen to have made your rim. :nonod:


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> If you measure right, and it sounds like you did, then it doesn't matter what people who don't know what they are doing or talking about say, even in the unfortunate case that those people happen to have made your rim. :nonod:


Oh, but they didn't _make _my rim, they just _sold _it, right? 

In general I agree with you, I have direct measurement so I should proceed with confidence, and not sweat the Nextie specs. But if someone chimed in w/ similar experience and a post-build photo of spoke position in nipple base, I can proceed with even more confidence. I'm also used to working w/ higher precision materials so ignoring OEM specs isn't exactly in my DNA.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Also, take several measures on both rims, you should get small variations but nothing that will interfere on your calculations.
Also, as meltingfeather mentioned, it doesn't matter what other people measured, as long as you took precaution measuring your rims, you should go by your measures.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Aglo said:


> Also, take several measures on both rims, you should get small variations but nothing that will interfere on your calculations.
> Also, as meltingfeather mentioned, it doesn't matter what other people measured, as long as you took precaution measuring your rims, you should go by your measures.


I did 4 measurements on each rim at 45 degree intervals, all were within the +/- 0.5mm error that I'd guess is inherent in my informal "tooling".


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Nothing to do with your rims, but the ERD listed for my chinese carbon rims was 579mm, then when they arrived I took a couple of measurements and the mean value I arrived was slightly over 583mm.
So, don't give it too much importance to the discrepancy.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

InertiaMan said:


> I received a response last night to my second inquiry, and they confirmed that the NXT27XA45 is drilled at +/-6 degrees.


FWIW, now that I've received the rims, I can confirm that they are indeed angle drilled. I have no means to distinguish 6 degrees versus 5 or 7 degrees, but its pretty obvious when one places a spoke & nipple in alternating holes that there is significant orientation bias toward one side or the other.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

InertiaMan said:


> Nextie has an FAQ/definition for ERD which indicates the measurement is taken not at the internal rim surface, but at the nipple base: What is ERD (Effective Rim Diameter)?


Maybe I am getting this wrong, but on this page the text and diagram contradict each other.

The diagram shows ERD at the rim surface, the text says to add the nipple heads (4mm).


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## KonaSS (Sep 29, 2004)

I am looking to build up a new 29" set of XC race wheels. Certainly interested in keeping the wheels light as possible, but willing to add some weight to get a rim with a little more internal width, thinking an internal width of 24-28. 

Anyone have any specific rims that they think are a good compromise between weight and internal width for XC racing?


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

LB e30-i23 worked great for me with xc tyres. lefty/dt wheelset f 24h, r 28h, zero issues in 4 yrs. 190lbs with gear.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

KonaSS said:


> I am looking to build up a new 29" set of XC race wheels. Certainly interested in keeping the wheels light as possible, but willing to add some weight to get a rim with a little more internal width, thinking an internal width of 24-28.
> 
> Anyone have any specific rims that they think are a good compromise between weight and internal width for XC racing?


i have 30mm external Nexties on my XC race rig, I wouldn't go any fatter. That's just me, but wider starts to get significantly heavier.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Part of the choice involves the tires you'll run. Bontrager XR1 Team 2.2s have a very rounded profile that works great with 30mm inner width rims. I use that combo and won't use anything skinnier with that tire or the 2.35 XR2-4.


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## guibe (Sep 17, 2015)

eb1888 said:


> That EIE 39mm id asym rim is 460g +/- 15g for 165 + 50 shipping for 2.
> So 445g(requested) rims for 380 shipped.


Hi,
Have you ordered from EIE ? I'm looking for some feedback.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

light bicycle said:


> Hi Inertia Man, We're building am asymmetrical 27.5 rim with a 40mm internal width right now, it's in the final testing phase and will be released at some point in late November. We can do custom drilling, but our standard is 6 degrees. For the spoke hole test, these are testing out to 400 kg/f before it can pull through (highest spoke tension used on wheels is about 130kg/f) so this is not going to be a concern for these.


Will these be available in 29?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

guibe said:


> Hi,
> Have you ordered from EIE ? I'm looking for some feedback.


I haven't ordered from them.
29er 45mm wide rim all mountain Enduro strong bicycle carbon rim, tubeless ready, "mid fat bike" rim
That rim is a copy of a CB rim. I've ordered from them with good response and the quality has been problem free.
[NEW] Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM&DH hookless rim 45mm wide - Asymmetric Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike
The difference appears to be a weight of 460 + or - 15 for the EIE vs 480 + or - for the CB. 
Both are 39mm inner.
And the listed price is $30 more for the CB. I think they may price match if you email them with the listing.
You can request a rim at the lower end of the range.


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## guibe (Sep 17, 2015)

I eventually decided to try out EIE carbon so I ordered a pair of 650b 29mm inner width assymetric rims. I just received them today and so far they look good with the custom color code I asked for the decals (which are not stickers but under the clearcoat I think).


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

I just bought a C'd Scalpel that came with ENVE Twenty9 XC rims. They've got an IW of 17.9 and are currently shod in 2.1" Racing Ralphs. 

To make this bike a little more trail-oriented, I'd like to move to 2.4" tires. Does this rim support 2.4" tires? If not, what's a good lightweight alternative? I was looking at XM's AS935C, but it seems a little heavy at 440g per.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Really interested in the quality and durability of the EIE rims. Their prices and weights for an asymmetrical rim are impressive. Let's see how they hold up. Did you get the AM or the HD? Any weights? Thanks.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

alexdi said:


> I just bought a C'd Scalpel that came with ENVE Twenty9 XC rims. They've got an IW of 17.9 and are currently shod in 2.1" Racing Ralphs.
> 
> To make this bike a little more trail-oriented, I'd like to move to 2.4" tires. Does this rim support 2.4" tires? If not, what's a good lightweight alternative? I was looking at XM's AS935C, but it seems a little heavy at 440g per.


I've run 30mm inners for my Trek carbon Superfly. You need to match that with a rounded profile tire. And then get the right pressure. Bontrager XR1 Team 2.2 or XR2 Team 2.35 have the rounded profile.
[NEW] Asymmetric Mountain bike 27.5er&29er AM hookless rim 40mm wide - Asymmetric Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike
This asym rim is 34mm inner for the 2.35 XR2 at 415g low range if you request it in the notes. 28 hole is fine.
Run it 14-16psi.
34mm inner EIE.
29er downhill rim 40mm wide, carbon bike Enduro riding, Asymmetrical rim carbon


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

That seems very wide to me. I'm honestly not sure if the Scalpel dropouts will accommodate a 2.4 tire when it's allowed to stretch that far. How about this one from the same company?

[HOT] Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM hookless rim 35mm wide - Asymmetric Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


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## guibe (Sep 17, 2015)

Andy13 said:


> Really interested in the quality and durability of the EIE rims. Their prices and weights for an asymmetrical rim are impressive. Let's see how they hold up. Did you get the AM or the HD? Any weights? Thanks.


I got a mix, AM rim for the front at 360g and HD for the rear at 410g (I asked for the lowest weight range). They are being laced to Hope pro 4 hubs.


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

Carbon Speed on sale rims: Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

Chinese year end closeouts: Carbon Speed 27.5er rims year end closeouts


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## guibe (Sep 17, 2015)

So the complete wheelset (29mm iw EIE rims on Pro 4 hubs, 32 CX Ray spokes front and rear , Roval tubeless strips and schwalbe valves) comes out at 1640g.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

alexdi said:


> That seems very wide to me. I'm honestly not sure if the Scalpel dropouts will accommodate a 2.4 tire when it's allowed to stretch that far. How about this one from the same company?
> 
> [HOT] Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er AM hookless rim 35mm wide - Asymmetric Rim - Carbonfan|Carbon Rim|Carbon Wheel|Carbon Bicycle|Carbon Frame|Carbon Bike Part|Mountain bike


How many mm. do you have between your chainstays where the side knobs line up?
I'd push it with a Bontrager 2.35 XR2 Team if you have more than 76 mm.


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## guibe (Sep 17, 2015)

Final result and first ride.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Interesting news- wonder if this will pressure NOX to lower prices.

LB has teamed up with Nobl and is opening a US based facility. Prices are pretty good.

I built a wheelset with 29mm inner Asy rims, I9 CL hubs with CX-Ray spokes- $1395

https://us.lightbicycle.com/shop/?u...-17553169&mc_cid=62954ef574&mc_eid=133e6565fb


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I'm hoping that encourages *everyone* to step up their game. USA is a big market. It's a wise move, as long as it doesn't mean their $170 rims are now $250.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

Just got the email and checked it out pricing not bad at all.
I might of missed it but I didn't see rim only options.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

PauLCa916 said:


> Just got the email and checked it out pricing not bad at all.
> I might of missed it but I didn't see rim only options.


No rim only right now. This is pre-ordering wheelsets. I would assume once it's actually open, the rim options will be there.


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## PauLCa916 (Jul 1, 2013)

I'm hoping so I can't wait to see the pricing hopefully we can save a few bucks this way


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## Frank Fields (Jul 1, 2015)

Too cheap: ? 200lb rider. Light mtb, nothing bigger than about 24" drop.



























Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

I wouldn't ride those.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Nextie wheel spam 
2016 Nextie 29er carbon wheels with Minions - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Frank Fields said:


> Too cheap: ? 200lb rider. Light mtb, nothing bigger than about 24" drop.


I'm not attracted to that product as much as this one.
700C 29ER MTB Carbon Wheels 35mm Width 771-772 Mountain Bicycle Carbon WheelSet | eBay
30mm inner hookless width is the minimum.
Looks like DT350 hubs can be spec'ed. I'd want Sapim Laser spokes and Sapim Polyax 12mm brass nipples.


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## Frank Fields (Jul 1, 2015)

eb1888 said:


> I'm not attracted to that product as much as this one.
> 700C 29ER MTB Carbon Wheels 35mm Width 771-772 Mountain Bicycle Carbon WheelSet | eBay
> 30mm inner hookless width is the minimum.
> Looks like DT350 hubs can be spec'ed. I'd want Sapim Laser spokes and Sapim Polyax 12mm brass nipples.


Thanks. It's for an older bike (2011 rockhopper comp w upgrades), so budget has to be contained and also I need qr (which luckily makes rims cheaper for me).

I have been looking at aluminium options also. Good weight can be had for ~$400. Might be safer option...

Thanks again

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## zircon (Feb 10, 2017)

Hi,
Im new to the forum an I subscribed because its the only place where I found some information about EIE carbon rims. Are they still holding up well? The price for them as a wheel set with Novatec 771/772 and Dt Swiss competition ist pretty good, so im thinking about pulling the trigger 
Does anyone have experience with the build quality of the wheels? Or have you just ordered the rims?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I consider them new but the rims I see are models sold by other companies.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

zircon said:


> Does anyone have experience with the build quality of the wheels? Or have you just ordered the rims?


I bought a set last week. I'll write about them, but it'll be another week before they arrive, and another two before they're laced. Their sales contact (Lucy) is very responsive.


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## guibe (Sep 17, 2015)

zircon said:


> Hi,
> Im new to the forum an I subscribed because its the only place where I found some information about EIE carbon rims. Are they still holding up well? The price for them as a wheel set with Novatec 771/772 and Dt Swiss competition ist pretty good, so im thinking about pulling the trigger
> Does anyone have experience with the build quality of the wheels? Or have you just ordered the rims?


The EIE rims are holding fine, a few scratches from rock strikes but still perfectly true. I had ordered rims only and had them laced to Hope hubs here in France.


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## Toot3344556 (Apr 25, 2016)

Has anyone used a cheap chineese carbon rim to replace a stock I9 rim on a straight pull hub with I9 spokes? 

I've seen that any spokes greater than 2.0mm(middle diameter) will void warranties.

At the end of the day what does it matter as long the tension on the spokes aren't over the max of the rim? 

Also, isn't aluminum softer than steel ? Shouldn't that be taken into account?

Has anyone tried this ?
Thanks


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Thicker spokes are stiffer (less elongation per force), so it's possible that with less wheel flex there is more load on individual spokes. Meaning that more flexible softer spokes will have more give that will spread force (an impact) on more spokes, so each spoke hole will see less force. I think the only way to test that theory is with simulation software or an experiment.

And then you have impacts directly on the spoke, like a stick in the wheel.

You can just ask them, some of the stores do reply.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

Toot3344556 said:


> Has anyone used a cheap chineese carbon rim to replace a stock I9 rim on a straight pull hub with I9 spokes?
> 
> I've seen that any spokes greater than 2.0mm(middle diameter) will void warranties.
> 
> ...


It's been done, if you search this forum you'll find peeps who've done it. The thing to watch out for is making sure the ERD of the new rim is close enough to your existing rim...noting that stated ERD's on Chinese carbon rims can be under by ~3 mm

You might have better luck in getting feedback if you post a separate thread on the main board.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Better chance of finding people that have done this in the wheels and tires forum.


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

Obviously you could use a carbon rim laced up on an i9 straight pull hub. But if the ERD wasn't spot on, you're in it for hundreds of dollars in new $8 spokes. The last Cheap Chinese Rim I built up was very inconsistent with ERD. Off by almost 2mm in different spots. I've never seen anything close to that on a name brand alloy rim.


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## Toot3344556 (Apr 25, 2016)

jm2e said:


> Obviously you could use a carbon rim laced up on an i9 straight pull hub. But if the ERD wasn't spot on, you're in it for hundreds of dollars in new $8 spokes. The last Cheap Chinese Rim I built up was very inconsistent with ERD. Off by almost 2mm in different spots. I've never seen anything close to that on a name brand alloy rim.


Interesting point on the ERD between different ares of the Rim.

Let's assume the Spokes and Rim play nice together and match.

IS there a legit concern about the spoke width and what LB has in their warranty ?

Also, I9 sells their straight pull hubs and spokes on carbon hoops... how do they do it ? do you think there's a special layup of carbon near the spoke holes?.


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

Toot3344556 said:


> Has anyone used a cheap chineese carbon rim to replace a stock I9 rim on a straight pull hub with I9 spokes?
> 
> I've seen that any spokes greater than 2.0mm(middle diameter) will void warranties.
> 
> ...


I replaced a set of Flow (not EX) rims with Light Bicycle rims and it worked out great. As someone else said, make sure the ERDs are close. And double check the ERD on the rims to make sure they match the spec (mine were spot on). They laced up fine, and I ended up with a slightly wider internal width and lighter rim.


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## 2TurnersNotEnough (Aug 31, 2004)

Toot3344556 said:


> IS there a legit concern about the spoke width and what LB has in their warranty ?
> 
> Also, I9 sells their straight pull hubs and spokes on carbon hoops... how do they do it ? do you think there's a special layup of carbon near the spoke holes?.


As far as I9 spokes and LB rims go, you have to use the appropriate correction values when tensioning the spokes, due to the larger diameter and material. I also have a couple of pairs of factory-built I9s with Derby rims (Yes, I have a problem. I'm currently seeking treatment). It's safe to say that there's no magic in their own carbon rims.


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## Toot3344556 (Apr 25, 2016)

2TurnersNotEnough said:


> As far as I9 spokes and LB rims go, you have to use the appropriate correction values when tensioning the spokes, due to the larger diameter and material. I also have a couple of pairs of factory-built I9s with Derby rims (Yes, I have a problem. I'm currently seeking treatment). It's safe to say that there's no magic in their own carbon rims.


 Haha me too, the have a second set of I9 hubs I own are jbend though... easier to work with.

I buy the spoke correction value theory/approach.
Are I9 carbon rims tensioned to different values? 
I know my torch set has the kgf up around 31-33 on the park tool tensionmeter.

Can you help me out with these correction values?

Also, the ERD on my LB rims are actually smaller than my stock I9 torch rims interesting enough... I am contemplating nipple washers to add some distance as well as dispersing some of the force around the spoke holes.


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## Trackdawson (Apr 22, 2011)

Hi guys, I just had one of my 4 year old LB wider 29er rims break and I am looking to replace it with a new wider rim. The asymmetric 35mm wide rim from EIE looks to be identical to one from carbonbicycle.cc but less expensive. I was wondering if there is any history with this company or did it just spring up? My fear is that it is just one step beyond the company's selling on eBay. I don't want to be hosed if something goes wrong with the rim.

Thanks


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

this thread is 165 pages...
what are the cliffs on nextie/derby/everything else? are they all the same, like most of the chiner carbon frames?

ideally I'd like a set of 35id hoops laced to some good q/r hubs for my karate monkey. I'd have them built here, likely on xt hubs or something similar, with good strong spokes. or should I get some more lighter race type gauge spokes to keep from cracking the rims with the rigid bike?


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

You really don't get the measure of a company until you break something. So far, I'm impressed with EIE (good product, fast shipping, great communication), but I haven't had to put their post-purchase service to the test. I did find their rims stiff and forgiving to build, and both of them (in different sizes: i29 and i39) had an identical ERD from multiple test holes.

Share photo from EIE

The bottom rim on this page is mine. Something important: there's a difference between a graphic and a decal. A graphic is painted on the wheel, then covered in either a matte or gloss clearcoat. A decal is a glossy sticker that goes on top of the clearcoat. I ordered matte rims on the assumption the EIE logo would be glossy as in most of the other pictures. You can see that it's not because they do graphics unless instructed otherwise and the other pictures were (so it appears) of decals.



Chippertheripper said:


> ideally I'd like a set of 35id hoops laced to some good q/r hubs for my karate monkey. I'd have them built here, likely on xt hubs or something similar, with good strong spokes. or should I get some more lighter race type gauge spokes to keep from cracking the rims with the rigid bike?


Derby (and Light Bicycle) have a USA presence. Nextie and EIE don't. That can matter for warranty turnaround times and support in general. The resilience of the rim derives mostly from weight and the thickness of the beads. Many sellers offer heavy-duty layups that add 30-70g per rim. Paired with a suitably thick tire that overlaps the bead, they'll be very durable.

With carbon rims and a decent hub, most spoke combinations will have adequate load capacity because you can use very high tension. A build with more and/or thicker spokes will have more lateral stiffness, though with a Boost hub and a wide 27.5" carbon rim, you'll have that to spare.

If you're light and someone else is building it, you might do a 28H build with a 2/1.5/2 spoke like Sapim Laser. If you're average, heavy, or hard on wheels, 32H is preferable. If you're the builder, a 2/1.8/2 spoke like DT Competition will make the build easier and the wheel a bit stronger. XT hubs are fine, though I'd pick something with more pawls.


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

Hi All, great great thread. Read the last 10 pagesor so. Interested in getting a set of carbon wheels. Anyone have experience with buying from an ebay seller called named carbonspeedcycle??

carbonspeedcycle on eBay

3400+ reviews, 99% positive. Their wheelsets with basic Novatec hubs are about 470 built and shipped. That is at least 200-250 less than something from a seller with an official site like Carbonfan and Carbonbicycle. Most of that is the Hub cost (DT 350 vs Novatec) Most of the other ebay carbon wheel sellers have way less reviews.

Bead hookless, 30mm width x25mm depth Clincher 29er carbon wheels tubeless ready | eBay

The rim profile looks pretty much exactly the same as this LB rim.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/Hand-b...B-wheelset-30mm-wide-tubeless-compatible.html


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

jton219 said:


> Hi All, great great thread. Read the last 10 pagesor so. Interested in getting a set of carbon wheels. Anyone have experience with buying from an ebay seller called named carbonspeedcycle??
> 
> carbonspeedcycle on eBay
> 
> ...


Speed the money now on quality hubs, don't bother with the Novatec. The money you'll pay later to get good hubs laced to those rims could have gone toward a better wheelset to begin with.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Go with DT350 hubs.


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

thanks guys. I am getting a quote from Carbonfan on a DT 350 set. my bike is a bit strange. Boost rear with a non boost fork.


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

Has anyone seen carbon rins that take rim brakes?
I am looking for 26 inch with 30 or 35 mm internal width.
Light bicycle makes 700 rims for rim brakes, and sells brake pads.
I can not find 26.
The only rim I can find weighs 800 grams.
DHL 42

There must be something out there somewhere.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

chrisx said:


> Has anyone seen carbon rins that take rim brakes?
> I am looking for 26 inch with 30 or 35 mm internal width.
> Light bicycle makes 700 rims for rim brakes, and sells brake pads.
> I can not find 26.
> ...


Its quite possible that you are literally the only person on the planet that wants a rim brake carbon wide rim.

Have you ever felt the braking on a carbon road bike rim? Its not great,and that's being generous. It would be downright dangerous on a mountain bike. That liability alone would likely prevent any company from selling one.

Consider a Velocity Cliffhanger. Its alloy, 600g, 30mm ext / 25mm int, has a tubeless ready profile, and is available with a rim brake sidewall.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Or a trials rim. Here's a 26", 36mm outside dimension, machined sidewall, IN STOCK for $90:

Inspired Team 26" Rim - at WebCyclery|WebSkis|Bend, Oregon


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

chrisx said:


> Has anyone seen carbon rins that take rim brakes?
> I am looking for 26 inch with 30 or 35 mm internal width.
> Light bicycle makes 700 rims for rim brakes, and sells brake pads.
> I can not find 26.
> ...


That sounds like a quick trip to the hospital. I would think the amount of braking done on a MTB is much higher than a road bike. Road bike wheel manufacturers are barely getting the hang of making a carbon clincher for road. The dirt and mud would grind down the brake track like it was nothing. I've got a pair of Zipp 404 tubulars on my road bike...I got caught in the rain a few times...and when wet the brakes were pretty much gone.

This rim in your link is for a cruiser or chopper...bikes that are not likely to see very high speeds.


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

InertiaMan said:


> Its quite possible that you are literally the only person on the planet that wants a rim brake carbon wide rim.
> 
> Have you ever felt the braking on a carbon road bike rim? Its not great,and that's being generous. It would be downright dangerous on a mountain bike. That liability alone would likely prevent any company from selling one.
> 
> Consider a Velocity Cliffhanger. Its alloy, 600g, 30mm ext / 25mm int, has a tubeless ready profile, and is available with a rim brake sidewall.


I figured I had no choice but the cliffhanger. Just read a statement from maxxis. They are saying new wide, 2.6 2.8, tires are designed for i30 to i35.

¨Have you ever felt the braking on a carbon road bike rim?¨
I did not even know they made carbon rim brake rims until a cou´ple of days ago.


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

RS VR6 said:


> That sounds like a quick trip to the hospital.
> 
> This rim in your link is for a cruiser or chopper...bikes that are not likely to see very high speeds.


No longer interested in carbon rim brake rims.

Also the only rim I could find that fits the suggested internal width for a new Maxxis tire..


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

InertiaMan said:


> Or a trials rim. Here's a 26", 36mm outside dimension, machined sidewall, IN STOCK for $90:
> 
> Inspired Team 26" Rim - at WebCyclery|WebSkis|Bend, Oregon


¨- Designed for street riding use, the Inspired Team rim offers an excellent strength to weight ratio. 
- Double wall construction for increased strength and stiffness. 
- Un-eyeletted construction saves over 50g when compared with eyeletted rims. 
- 20mm holes drilled in the rim help to reduce weight. ¨

The 20mm holes are going to stop me from getting this one.

Perhaps I should have explained my train of thought.
I have a 1995 Mongoose Alta. I want to see some places such as the ruins at Rio Azule, Guatemala, and Baja California, where 2.4 is not good enough, and Puerto Cabeza, Nicaragua. Some very out of the way places. Where they only have old mt bikes with cantis. It has room to spare for wide tires. The old single wall rims are not fit for these journeys. The drive train is XT 9 speed hand me down from a newer bike that I switched to 11 speed.

Thanks gents for bursting my uneducated bubble. I saw a picture of rim brake pads for carbon rims only, on the Light Bicycle web page. I asked, now I delete that thought.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

chrisx said:


> The 20mm holes are going to stop me from getting this one.


Why the aversion to the holes? There are plenty of Krampus and ECR bikes in remote places with Rabbit Hole rims with even larger holes. You use non-stretch/high-tensile rim strips and its fine. Admittedly, it does complicate the tubeless setup a bit -- you'll definitely be in ghetto mode compared to the Cliffhanger -- but again there are uncountable numbers of folks running similar rims w/ a layer or two of Gorilla tape and going tubeless. One of the guys that finished the Baja Divide w/ me did it on non-tubeless-ready Knards run tubeless on Rabbit Holes with Gorilla tape, and had no issues.

Alternatively, the Maxxis 2.6 and 2.8 would work on the Cliffhangers. Not optimal, but that just means the edge knobs will be a bit deep on the radius of the tire, and you'll be a little more vulnerable to sidewall rollover during cornering. For 4WD road wandering, I don't think either of those issues are going to matter much. The 2.6 models, in particular, don't measure out that big and would be fine on 25mm inside rim. And if you have a worst-case-scenario in god-knows-where, and need to buy a local tire, the Cliffhanger is a better fit to some random 2" tire than a 35mm rim.

So you don't have an ideal option, but either of those two options are viable and would work for you, imho.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

One oddball issue you might run into:

Cantilever brakes often had difficulty w/ clearance to the tire sidewall. As they pivot up/out, the "bulging" sidewall of a plus tire on a 25mm rim could be an issue. Depends a lot on the specific brakes, pads, and frame post/stud position.


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

InertiaMan said:


> Why the aversion to the holes? There are plenty of Krampus and ECR bikes in remote places with Rabbit Hole rims with even larger holes. You use non-stretch/high-tensile rim strips and its fine. Admittedly, it does complicate the tubeless setup a bit -- you'll definitely be in ghetto mode compared to the Cliffhanger -- but again there are uncountable numbers of folks running similar rims w/ a layer or two of Gorilla tape and going tubeless. One of the guys that finished the Baja Divide w/ me did it on non-tubeless-ready Knards run tubeless on Rabbit Holes with Gorilla tape, and had no issues.
> 
> Alternatively, the Maxxis 2.6 and 2.8 would work on the Cliffhangers. Not optimal, but that just means the edge knobs will be a bit deep on the radius of the tire, and you'll be a little more vulnerable to sidewall rollover during cornering. For 4WD road wandering, I don't think either of those issues are going to matter much. The 2.6 models, in particular, don't measure out that big and would be fine on 25mm inside rim. And if you have a worst-case-scenario in god-knows-where, and need to buy a local tire, the Cliffhanger is a better fit to some random 2" tire than a 35mm rim.
> 
> So you don't have an ideal option, but either of those two options are viable and would work for you, imho.


It says double wall rim. Does this mean there are a second layer of 20mm holes on the inside wall to cause me grief while putting tape on the inside of the 20mm holes? I just clicked Surly, they say, of the rabbit hole, ¨technically a single wall with internal tubes to buttress it.¨ Sounds like I have to choose the Cliffhanger. I spent 10 minutes pulling thorns out of my boots with needle-nose pliers near la paz. Most from breaking up fire wood with my boots. Better get the tubeless correct down there. I also also spent some days and nights off route searching for pinturas rupestres, cave paintings, which I found. I found them by pushing my bike through soft beach like sand. Some Cochimí indians gave me directions to many more. I need an old bike I can leave for a couple of days at a time with wide tires to find them next year.



InertiaMan said:


> One oddball issue you might run into:
> 
> Cantilever brakes often had difficulty w/ clearance to the tire sidewall. As they pivot up/out, the "bulging" sidewall of a plus tire on a 25mm rim could be an issue. Depends a lot on the specific brakes, pads, and frame post/stud position.


I have Xt cantilever brakes. Rim brakes are cheap compared to disc. Whick ones might be better. Or, is it just enough patience to adjust and readjust the cantis untill they work.

Maxxis has a 26 x 2.8 due out this month. Perhaps a long wait for the 2.6, if at all. 26+ has a toe in the door, nothing more. WTB Ranger 2.8 and 3.0 are the only other choice.


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## speedwei (Nov 3, 2016)

I'm new to this discussion. Anybody has any experience with the Yuan'an carbon rims with 30 mm internal width? They advertised on EBay that these rims are 370 grams.that is very light consider the width. 

I've been looking for a wheel set with width between 25 to 30mm. 

Any information would be much appreciated. 

Thanks!!


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

jton219 said:


> Hi All, great great thread. Read the last 10 pagesor so. Interested in getting a set of carbon wheels. Anyone have experience with buying from an ebay seller called named carbonspeedcycle?? carbonspeedcycle on eBay 3400+ reviews, 99% positive. Their wheelsets with basic Novatec hubs are about 470 built and shipped. That is at least 200-250 less than something from a seller with an official site like Carbonfan and Carbonbicycle. Most of that is the Hub cost (DT 350 vs Novatec) Most of the other ebay carbon wheel sellers have way less reviews. Bead hookless, 30mm width x25mm depth Clincher 29er carbon wheels tubeless ready | eBayThe rim profile looks pretty much exactly the same as this LB rim.https://www.lightbicycle.com/Hand-b...B-wheelset-30mm-wide-tubeless-compatible.html


That carbonspeedcycle rim profile looks odd, it tapers down at the bead to a very narrow bid, which is not going to survive well. It does not look like the lightbicycle rim which does not taper at the bid.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I've never seen that profile before from someone else. The profile doesn't tell you the inner rim width or the bead thickness. Both are critical measurements, imo. 
I'd pass for EIE or Carbonfan wheels or rims.
29er all mountain 35mm wide enduro 29 inch bike rim, asymmetrical bicycle rim

https://www.carbonfan.com/carbonfan-asymmetric-carbon-mountain-bike-wheels-series
With DT 350 hubs


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## Jaime777 (Mar 12, 2017)

hi! can somebody help me? whats the best build carbon wheelset for my 2017 stumpy 29er? planning to get but im not sure what to choose like the size of the hub and etc. just wanna make sure that what i will order will fit to my bike. really appreaciate it guys!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Choose the same size hubs as your current hubs. 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Shoao (Feb 26, 2017)

eb1888 said:


> I've never seen that profile before from someone else. The profile doesn't tell you the inner rim width or the bead thickness. Both are critical measurements, imo.
> I'd pass for EIE or Carbonfan wheels or rims.
> 29er all mountain 35mm wide enduro 29 inch bike rim, asymmetrical bicycle rim
> 
> ...


hi @eb1888 I really appreciate it that you recommend us Carbonfan as one of the options, and I m happy to answer any question about how to choose a better rim & wheels.


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## Jaime777 (Mar 12, 2017)

hi @carbonfan. can you give me the price for both wheelsets of my sworks stumpjumper 29er?


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## Shoao (Feb 26, 2017)

Jaime777 said:


> hi @carbonfan. can you give me the price for both wheelsets of my sworks stumpjumper 29er?


Hi jimmy ! It's that you ? Haha wonderful ! I remember that we sent you a quote already . Yes you have a rear hub is boost version . Dr Swiss 350 . Right ?


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## Jaime777 (Mar 12, 2017)

hello! yeah its me! indidnt receive any messages from you guys. where did you send the quote to my email?


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## Shoao (Feb 26, 2017)

Jaime777 said:


> hello! yeah its me! indidnt receive any messages from you guys. where did you send the quote to my email?


Your email box? It's a paypal link . Keep me post if you have questions .


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

Shoao said:


> Your email box? It's a paypal link . Keep me post if you have questions .


Diff jimmy.. i am jton219. diff email. i got the quote. thank you. waiting on funds and other stuff


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## Shoao (Feb 26, 2017)

jton219 said:


> Diff jimmy.. i am jton219. diff email. i got the quote. thank you. waiting on funds and other stuff


Hi I got confused . You are the real Jimmy .. so who is jaime777.. it's you as well ? Haha understand


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

I need a new front wheel. 24 holes. 19 mm/ 25 mm. 29". What do I choose? 


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

haakonbs said:


> I need a new front wheel. 24 holes. 19 mm/ 25 mm. 29". What do I choose?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Front wheel or just a rim? I know people use 24H but personally I would never use less than 28 (and 32 on the rear)


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

CrozCountry said:


> Front wheel or just a rim? I know people use 24H but personally I would never use less than 28 (and 32 on the rear)


Meant rim. Why not 24? It's a Easton wheel that has to rebuild


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

haakonbs said:


> Meant rim. Why not 24? It's a Easton wheel that has to rebuild


Why not 24H? Well, your rim apparently failed, so that is a potential answer. Maybe a 28H or 32Hrim would have survived.

So really you're trying to salvage an Easton front hub. You might reconsider if that is worthwhile. You'll need to hunt down straight-pull spokes in the proper length. Computing the length might be problematic . . . does Easton publish the hub dimensions? Lacing pattern is dictated by the hub.

Not saying its stupid, but it may not be worth the hassle, versus dumping the hub on eBay and building a 28H wheel around another hub.

But to directly answer your original question, the Nextie NXT29XC24 is very close to the dimension you want, and costs a reasonable $155. Light-bicycle doesn't have anything that narrow anymore.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

haakonbs said:


> It's a Easton wheel


Scrap it and put an end to the madness.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

InertiaMan said:


> But to directly answer your original question, the Nextie NXT29XC24 is very close to the dimension you want, and costs a reasonable $155. Light-bicycle doesn't have anything that narrow anymore.


Coincidentally, if you don't mind a 3K/glossy finish, you can get a 24H version of the 29XC24 rim shipped immediately from stock at 15% off (so $130-ish + shipping) from Nextie's "leftovers" inventory here:
Stock Products


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Also note that you don't have to use such a narrow rim, the norm is wider. If you go wider you will have many more rim options, and most people run a wider tire in the front anyways.

In addition, typically rear wheels fail more often than fronts (higher loads and worse spoke angle), so if your front failed it may mean that the days of the rear are numbered. In other words, full wheelset.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

InertiaMan said:


> Why not 24H? Well, your rim apparently failed, so that is a potential answer. Maybe a 28H or 32Hrim would have survived.


It melted because it was to close to the exhaust of my car


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

haakonbs said:


> It melted because it was to close to the exhaust of my car


Fair enough. That's why I said _potential _answer.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

InertiaMan said:


> Fair enough. That's why I said _potential _answer.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cata1yst (Dec 27, 2007)

Ok. So I ordered a set of the 35mm's from the USA office as 1) it ships faster (got mine in a week) and 2) in the event I need to warranty, its both cheaper and faster to ship within the states.

Premium was about $40 compared to shipping from china, its $80 more expensive compared to nextie for a pair.


Also, Pro tip for confirming / checking for angled drilling. Take a spoke, add a nipple to it. The drilling angle isnt noticiable to my eyes, and gravity will easily pull the spoke whichever way you are leaning the rim. So pull down on the spoke and rock it from left to right, you should feel it "notch" one direction and not the other, that should match up with the sticker direction.


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## Shoao (Feb 26, 2017)

hi mate You can go with us Carbonfan which is free shipping to US, yes We need take longer to ship ,but ours quality is awesome, guarantee You that .


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

My LB wheelset is still running strong after three years.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Carloswithac said:


> My LB wheelset is still running strong after three years.


Me too!:thumbsup:


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Same here! Hookless 27 mm outer/22 mm inner width laced to Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs. Were installed on a hardtail for the first year, now on a 120/110 mm travel FS 29er. Over 2000 miles, and just some surface scratches. Still true and round - love the low maintenance. These were my first wheel building experience, and it turned out awesome. Ted

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Shoao (Feb 26, 2017)

Yea the time is the proof . I m proud of made in China now . 


从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk Pro


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## jtaylor996 (Jul 8, 2016)

When you order rims on the light bicycle site, is the price ($280) for a pair of them, or just one rim?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

jtaylor996 said:


> When you order rims on the light bicycle site, is the price ($280) for a pair of them, or just one rim?


It's price per rim, unless it's stated otherwise.


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## jtaylor996 (Jul 8, 2016)

Aglo said:


> It's price per rim, unless it's stated otherwise.


Ouch! I have a set of wheels on order with them, but was thinking of upgrade the rims on my B+ wheels that I already have on my bike. I don't think my sram hubs are worth spending that kind of dough on.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

jtaylor996 said:


> Ouch! I have a set of wheels on order with them, but was thinking of upgrade the rims on my B+ wheels that I already have on my bike. I don't think my sram hubs are worth spending that kind of dough on.


You can always buy a pair of Dt hubs with the rims


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## driven916 (Jul 24, 2009)

I just mounted a set of i29 asymmetric rims on DT350 boost hubs from Carbonfan.com. I started a separate thread with some pictures and initial thoughts here as this thread is crazy long: http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/new-carbonfan-wheels-1044862.html. They construction quality seems good and my tires mounted easily without tools and just a floor pump. There arelots of users here who have had good experiences with Chinese rims but Carbonfan seems to have a smaller base so I was a bit hesitant. That said, so far I'm very happy with the wheels.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

I think it's impossible to tell if construction of any carbon rim is good by looking at it. The factors of quality are inside and you cannot see that. The only thing you can tell are defects that are visible externally, those will almost never be sent to a customer.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I built up a set of wheels with the i29 asymm Carbonfan rims about a year ago and they've been doing great.


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## driven916 (Jul 24, 2009)

CrozCountry said:


> I think it's impossible to tell if construction of any carbon rim is good by looking at it. The factors of quality are inside and you cannot see that. The only thing you can tell are defects that are visible externally, those will almost never be sent to a customer.


Point taken. I think that's a fair assessment. I've seen a few posts about carbon rims arriving with visible imperfections but thankfully I did not notice any on mine. 



Lone Rager said:


> I built up a set of wheels with the i29 asymm Carbonfan rims about a year ago and they've been doing great.


That's good to hear! Hopefully their durability holds up! :thumbsup:


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

New build with LB asym XC923s to my old Roval hubs. Sapim D-Light spokes and DT locking alloy nips + washers. They look to be VERY high quality. The 23mm is down right YUGE compared to the 19mm Roval's I had....my 2.35 Ikon up front finally measures 2.35!


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## c_klein87 (Apr 28, 2013)

been super impressed by the quality of LB rims, front wheel still going strong 4 years later, the rear died after 2 years but it was re-dished/overtensioned by a careless mechanic. been tempted by a pair of these but price seems to go to be true. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/140...24.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.262.WbV7ai


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

c_klein87 said:


> been super impressed by the quality of LB rims, front wheel still going strong 4 years later, the rear died after 2 years but it was re-dished/overtensioned by a careless mechanic. been tempted by a pair of these but price seems to go to be true. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/140...24.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.262.WbV7ai


Stick with what you know works imho.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32796681518.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.lPAF9v

The asym rims are the same profile, etc. as carbonbicycle and carbonfan with free shipping. The 45mm will be 39mm inner. Good for 2.6 tires as well as 2.8.

I'd like to see that asym profile expanded to 44 and 49 inner widths.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

eb1888 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32796681518.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.lPAF9v
> 
> The asym rims are the same profile, etc. as carbonbicycle and carbonfan with free shipping. The 45mm will be 39mm inner. Good for 2.6 tires as well as 2.8.
> 
> I'd like to see that asym profile expanded to 44 and 49 inner widths.


Additional width really isn't necessary. I've got a 3.0 WTB Ranger on that rim. The profile is, IMO, ideal.

The "too good to be true" wheels above have a 24/28 spoke configuration. I don't know who would choose that for a mountain bike.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

alexdi said:


> The "too good to be true" wheels above have a 24/28 spoke configuration. I don't know who would choose that for a mountain bike.


Specialized Roval Traverse SL Fattie Carbon Wheels have 24h (front) and 28h (rear) and people use them on trail & enduruo MTB's. They said the wheels would be too stiff with a high spoke count -- perhaps it is just marketing...

If I were a clydesdale, I do not know if I would trust them on a DH course...


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

journey said:


> Specialized Roval Traverse SL Fattie Carbon Wheels have 24h (front) and 28h (rear) and people use them on trail & enduruo MTB's. They said the wheels would be too stiff with a high spoke count -- perhaps it is just marketing...
> 
> If I were a clydesdale, I do not know if I would trust them on a DH course...


Specialized uses non traditional asymmetrical lacings like half radial, 8-16 side to side split, etc to stiffen up the build, so it's not apples to apples with other wheels with the same spoke count.

I used to have one of their 24-28 spokes aluminum wheels and they were so flexy that you could feel it, and I am on the lighter side. Specialized of course said it's stiff.


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## MikeInPA (Mar 18, 2017)

Just ordered LB AM740 wheel set from their North American site. I like that I called and spoke to one of their wheel builders....he spent about 25 minutes with me....and that they build up your set here in USA with I9 hubs. Price was about the same as a set built up in China. I don't know, just seems like a good compromise and the hubs will be with me for many years.

This will be my first hand-built wheel set ever. Fanciest thing I have in wheels are my Easton EA70's on my road bike....so I'm hoping to be 'wowed' by these LB hoops. Putting them on my FEX8 with some Nobby Nics


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## Eiecarbon (Mar 1, 2017)

Hi @eb1888, thanks for your recommend our EIEcarbon for mtbr ,i viewed many eiecarbon information from ur advice .We are really glad to support any help if you are free to contact us .Thanks for your suggestion again .


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## Eiecarbon (Mar 1, 2017)

eb1888 said:


> I've never seen that profile before from someone else. The profile doesn't tell you the inner rim width or the bead thickness. Both are critical measurements, imo.
> I'd pass for EIE or Carbonfan wheels or rims.
> 29er all mountain 35mm wide enduro 29 inch bike rim, asymmetrical bicycle rim
> 
> ...


Hi @eb1888, thanks for your recommend our EIEcarbon for mtbr ,i viewed many eiecarbon information from ur advice .We are really glad to support any help if you are free to contact us .Thanks for your suggestion again .


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## Eiecarbon (Mar 1, 2017)

zircon said:


> Hi,
> Im new to the forum an I subscribed because its the only place where I found some information about EIE carbon rims. Are they still holding up well? The price for them as a wheel set with Novatec 771/772 and Dt Swiss competition ist pretty good, so im thinking about pulling the trigger
> Does anyone have experience with the build quality of the wheels? Or have you just ordered the rims?


Hello Zircon , sorry to late join mtbr forum , know your concerns now .Even though you have ordered else where or not .if you have any question about rims&wheels in future , pls do not hesitate contact us .we are happy to support u .


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Does anybody know the ERD of the original light bikes "Wide" 29er rims that they were selling in 2013? They are 30mm outside, 25mm inside width.


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## ebsilon (Jul 23, 2006)

92gli said:


> Does anybody know the ERD of the original light bikes "Wide" 29er rims that they were selling in 2013? They are 30mm outside, 25mm inside width.


Hello 

I think it was 603 mm

ebsilon


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## Eiecarbon (Mar 1, 2017)

92gli said:


> Does anybody know the ERD of the original light bikes "Wide" 29er rims that they were selling in 2013? They are 30mm outside, 25mm inside width.


Hi,
We have one model 29er ,30mm outer width ,25mm inner width carbon rim which is Asymmetric rim ,ERD is :594mm.Does this model what you are looking for ?
Maybe you can visit :http://www.eiecarbon.com/A29C25D22-...n-29-inch-carbon-rims-MTB-carbon-bike.html,so that you will see more specification from that .I hope you will find target product there .


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

ebsilon said:


> Hello
> 
> I think it was 603 mm
> 
> ebsilon


Yes! Thats what I have. Thanks



Eiecarbon said:


> Hi,
> We have one model 29er ,30mm outer width ,25mm inner width carbon rim which is Asymmetric rim ,ERD is :594mm.Does this model what you are looking for ?
> Maybe you can visit :http://www.eiecarbon.com/A29C25D22-...n-29-inch-carbon-rims-MTB-carbon-bike.html,so that you will see more specification from that .I hope you will find target product there .


 :skep:Who's this guy?


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Laced up a new set of rims. I wanted a wider rim than the almost 5 year old LB rims I've been on. I went with a 29mm internal set from Carbonbicycle.

They laced up nice. I've got 2 rides on them and I can appreciate the benefits of the wider rim already.










http://www.carbonbicycle.cc/proshow.php?cid=77&tid=59&id=207#.WaDRwdplChA

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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Just got a set of the Light Bicycle AM928 rims. Wow they look amazing. The finish is perfect. I love the customization LB gives you. I got my rims UST style (no spoke holes in the rim bed--should make changing tires easier as I don't need tubeless tape) glossy UD. They seem to be very flat and true. 

I have an old pair of their original RM26C02 (23mm wide 26er rim) and those ran problem free for thousands of miles over 5 years. Couldn't have been happier--until I saw these new ones. From the looks of it, they have really improved the process and the quality. Good for LB. I can't imagine spending the extra money for Enve or whoever--it just seems more like jewelry than any actual performance benefit over what you get from LB. 

If these rims hold up as well as my older pair I'll be extremely happy.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

My LB rims that I asked about above are now 4 years old! Scratched and battered but still going strong. Lacing my rear rim to a new hub next week.


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## eddieman (Nov 20, 2006)

*Yuan'an 33mm rims*



speedwei said:


> I'm new to this discussion. Anybody has any experience with the Yuan'an carbon rims with 30 mm internal width? They advertised on EBay that these rims are 370 grams.that is very light consider the width.
> 
> I've been looking for a wheel set with width between 25 to 30mm.
> 
> ...


Hi.

I ordered a pair of 33mm wide an 30mm deep carbon rims at Yuan'an with customized decals. The communication and the clarification of all the details went very well.
A couple of days ago I got the rims. They look great and weight is also very impressive at 360 and 359 gramms.
Yesterday I laced the first one with Sapim CX-Rey spokes, aluminium nipples and a Tune Kong hub. Trueing was very easy, since the rims are very straight.

As a conclusion, I'm very impressed, so far. If they also prove that good in the practical use, I couldn't be any happier....

Regards.


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## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

litany said:


> Just got a set of the Light Bicycle AM928 rims. Wow they look amazing. The finish is perfect. I love the customization LB gives you. I got my rims UST style (no spoke holes in the rim bed--should make changing tires easier as I don't need tubeless tape) glossy UD. They seem to be very flat and true.
> 
> I have an old pair of their original RM26C02 (23mm wide 26er rim) and those ran problem free for thousands of miles over 5 years. Couldn't have been happier--until I saw these new ones. From the looks of it, they have really improved the process and the quality. Good for LB. I can't imagine spending the extra money for Enve or whoever--it just seems more like jewelry than any actual performance benefit over what you get from LB.
> 
> If these rims hold up as well as my older pair I'll be extremely happy.


Thank you for your support, I'm glad you're enjoying the wheels!


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## sdmtnbkr (Aug 26, 2011)

Anyone have any experience with velosa runs or wheelset. They are listing a light asymmetric boost wheelset on eBay for at a low price point. Any insight on the wheels/rums is appreciated.


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## LD001 (Nov 6, 2016)

eddieman said:


> Hi.
> 
> I ordered a pair of 33mm wide an 30mm deep carbon rims at Yuan'an with customized decals. The communication and the clarification of all the details went very well.
> A couple of days ago I got the rims. They look great and weight is also very impressive at 360 and 359 gramms.
> ...


I am interested in these rims from Yuan an: could you share some riding experience with these wheels? Some pictures would be great, thanks.


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## LD001 (Nov 6, 2016)

I ordered the new Nextie Ultralight: 29er rims with 28mm inner and 34 mm outer width at 350 gram. I will post my experiences.

29-34mm | 30mm Depth | 350g | ERD 580mm | Hookless | Tubeless | Tire 1.5"~2.3" | Cross Country / Trail | NEXTIE


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## jn24uk (Nov 26, 2015)

MikeInPA said:


> Just ordered LB AM740 wheel set from their North American site. I like that I called and spoke to one of their wheel builders....he spent about 25 minutes with me....and that they build up your set here in USA with I9 hubs. Price was about the same as a set built up in China. I don't know, just seems like a good compromise and the hubs will be with me for many years.
> 
> This will be my first hand-built wheel set ever. Fanciest thing I have in wheels are my Easton EA70's on my road bike....so I'm hoping to be 'wowed' by these LB hoops. Putting them on my FEX8 with some Nobby Nics


MikeInPA, wondering how you like the LB AM740, i'm also in PA and considering theAM928 setup.


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## MikeInPA (Mar 18, 2017)

jn24uk said:


> MikeInPA, wondering how you like the LB AM740, i'm also in PA and considering theAM928 setup.


Very...VERY... happy with my LB wheels! They have about 600 miles of abuse on them - rocky, root bashing stuff in a lot of cases - and are true and strong. I'm eyeing some LB 29ers myself. Very good product.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jn24uk (Nov 26, 2015)

MikeInPA said:


> Very...VERY... happy with my LB wheels! They have about 600 miles of abuse on them - rocky, root bashing stuff in a lot of cases - and are true and strong. I'm eyeing some LB 29ers myself. Very good product.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, Same type of conditions where I am in SE PA. Trying to decide between LB, CarbonFan, etc.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

Worth noting the ibis carbon wheels with xray spokes and i9 hubs are on sale for the month of November at light bicycle prices. 1385 shipped for 29 and 35mm id


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

racebum said:


> Worth noting the ibis carbon wheels with xray spokes and i9 hubs are on sale for the month of November at light bicycle prices. 1385 shipped for 29 and 35mm id


Damn, that's only about 400-500 more than I can build the same thing with Nextie. But I like scotch, so that's like 7 or 8 Lagavulins.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

Xray spokes and i9 hubs are 800 to 900 on their own unless you are getting some kind of crazy deal. 2 bucks a spoke plus alloy nips plus 600 in hubs plus rim tape and valves. Most people are paying about 1300 to 1400 for light bicycle wheelsets unless they do all the labor themselves and work deals on absolutely every part if they use that hub and that spoke pre built. Ibis wheels have a 7yr warranty. Great build. Way better resale. I actually talked to the guys at Ibis today. The sale runs for the month of November. Using cheaper rims made sense when name brand was expensive but now it's pretty much the same money with the sale going on. You can order factory direct from Ibis


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Those Ibis are a good deal indeed, but I think people that look for budget wheels use cheaper components like Hope or DT hubs and end up around $800.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

And that makes complete sense. Hope or 350s. Standard db spokes and a low price.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Sanity check here, light bike 29” – RM29C19 – 30MM WHEELSET with i9, standard sapim spokes. This is for a carbon hardtail, 2.25-2.35" tires and trying to keep it decently light but sturdy. 

$1148 shipped. Should I be looking for anything else?


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

big_slacker said:


> Sanity check here, light bike 29" - RM29C19 - 30MM WHEELSET with i9, standard sapim spokes. This is for a carbon hardtail, 2.25-2.35" tires and trying to keep it decently light but sturdy.
> 
> $1148 shipped. Should I be looking for anything else?


You are pretty much an exact candidate for the Ibis sale. You get a lot higher end spoke over there and a better warranty. The 935 would be the wheelset for you. X-ray spokes are also considerably lighter than the standard and also very stiff. Some say the higher-end carbon rims ride better. It could be in the build or it could be the carbon I'm not really sure


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

racebum said:


> You are pretty much an exact candidate for the Ibis sale.


Agree, if you go with higher end components like I9 hubs you might as well invest a little more for a total high end setup, which is what Ibis is (evident by the warranty).

The reality is that there are a lot of good reliable hubs, and a failure is most likely going to be at the rim or maybe spokes. So the sensible build is the best rim you can afford with decent hubs, not the highest end hubs with middle of the road rim.

Personally I would either go with a budget light bike/Nextie build (Hope/DT350), or a complete high end wheel (Ibis/Roval).


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks for the Ibis info. One odd thing, I noticed that the 935's are listed as out of stock on Ibis' site. They're the same price on Backcountry with 8% cashback. But the description says:

_The 935 comes tubeless-ready, and is compatible with centerlock rotors. It's available with a 15 x 110mm front and 12 x 148mm rear hub pairing, with your choice of an HG or XD driver. *Choose the HG driver if you're riding a Shimano/SRAM 9/10-speed drivetrain* or pick up the XD driver version if you're running the latest 11/12-speed drivetrain from SRAM._

I'm running 11 speed XT right now, these need a different 11 speed driver or is this just Backcountry's description being off?


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

big_slacker said:


> Thanks for the Ibis info. One odd thing, I noticed that the 935's are listed as out of stock on Ibis' site. They're the same price on Backcountry with 8% cashback. But the description says:
> 
> _The 935 comes tubeless-ready, and is compatible with centerlock rotors. It's available with a 15 x 110mm front and 12 x 148mm rear hub pairing, with your choice of an HG or XD driver. *Choose the HG driver if you're riding a Shimano/SRAM 9/10-speed drivetrain* or pick up the XD driver version if you're running the latest 11/12-speed drivetrain from SRAM._
> 
> I'm running 11 speed XT right now, these need a different 11 speed driver or is this just Backcountry's description being off?


hasn't been updated. 10spd use the same length of driver as 11spd

you can also order from ibis direct for the same price and they send sig required if you ask. comp won't

Ibis 935 Carbon Wheelset - Industry 9 Hubs â€" Ibis Cycles Online Store

comp also stocks this stuff so if ibis is on backorder you can either wait, or order from comp cyclist and have them next week

there is no 8% cashback on ibis right now. it's excluded via activejunkie


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

racebum said:


> hasn't been updated. 10spd use the same length of driver as 11spd
> 
> you can also order from ibis direct for the same price and they send sig required if you ask. comp won't
> 
> ...


Sheet, no need for signature. I'm watching that tracking ## like a hawk and will just work from home on delivery day. 

Excluded from activejunky? That sucks, I didn't SEE fine print but then again I'm drinking a 22oz 9% PacNW IPA.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

I think the problem is how close to cost this price is. Comp wouldnt tell me exactly what cost was but they said it's less than 15% margin and more than 10. That means they're making about $150. With shipping and credit card fees that's $100. There is just no room for discounting. It's a margin stores never operate at but it's a factory backed Ibis sale. Who knows maybe they get something on the back end from Ibis

these things beat out enve when enduro mag did a test

High Rollin: 5 Premium Carbon Wheels in Test | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

gets even better with cheap "name brand" wheels for those of you looking for even lower cost. bontrager line 30 pro wheels have a low $1200 retail, aerolite spokes, 29mm id rim and the top tier bontrager hub with a 108pt engagement

a local dealer mentioned they will sell them 20% off if you haggle. sunrise cyclery also had that promo going for a low low $960, that's taped, valved, high end spokes. oclv carbon rims and what appears to be a ring drive knock off hub and they even happen to be straight pull

review here https://www.bikemag.com/gear/components/wheels/review-bontrager-line-pro-30-wheels/

and

Bontrager's Line Pro 30 wheelset brings value to carbon wheels review - BikeRadar

not 100% sure on weight. the 27.5 trek says are 1540g and the 29 this article says 1748 but it tested the earlier 54t version. not the current 108s so there may have been changes? the 29 is now quoted as 878g/r 730g/f over here or 1608g but reviews have said weight can be higher with one as high as the previously mentioned 1748g. still it's the first time we have seen name brand carbon wheels under 1k after haggle


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## MikeInPA (Mar 18, 2017)

Wow....the Ibis sale is tempting me. Any opinions on the 942 "logo" line, which forgoes the I9 hubs and I think is built up in Taiwan (although I've seen conflicting notes on that) ??

I don't really need the rattlesnake sound of the I9 hubs, and I'm sure the Ibis hubs will suffice. Will the real 942's be $372 better? ($1385 vs $1013)


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

MikeInPA said:


> Wow....the Ibis sale is tempting me. Any opinions on the 942 "logo" line, which forgoes the I9 hubs and I think is built up in Taiwan (although I've seen conflicting notes on that) ??
> 
> I don't really need the rattlesnake sound of the I9 hubs, and I'm sure the Ibis hubs will suffice. Will the real 942's be $372 better? ($1385 vs $1013)


2 years warranty on the hubs, that should do. My only concern with those hubs will be parts after a few years, as opposed to the big hub makers where it's a non issue.

As far as building in Taiwan, take the wheel to a good bike shop for proper tensioning, and you got a US wheel  Or use the money for a tension meter and DIY.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

solid comments on the ibis brand hubs. front hubs go forever. rear? well. i'd call ibis and ask about parts availability and what they plan on stocking. 1013 is a lot less money. it's also 6 bolt if you have 6bolt rotors. 

from a resale perspective you aren't losing anything going i9. even used they really hold value. parts, also a non issue

but $1013 makes this a crazy deal if they also use xray spokes. not sure what spoke the ibis brand hub set uses


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

I snagged a pair of the Ibis 935's yesterday. I have m615 brakes so centerlock is fine, just need to order some rotors and tires and then we'll see how this bad boy climbs without boat anchors! 

Any suggestions on tires that play well with the wider rims? Given that this is gonna be on a hardtail and built to climb but also have fun on the way down.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

racebum said:


> You are pretty much an exact candidate for the Ibis sale. You get a lot higher end spoke over there and a better warranty. The 935 would be the wheelset for you. X-ray spokes are also considerably lighter than the standard and also very stiff.


Vanity spokes that offer no real advantage, but you can set up nextie or light bicycle with these as well, they offer them on their sites. Not sure what makes the Ibis a "high end" set, except that it costs more. You get the same "high end spokes" if you want with either.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

big_slacker said:


> I snagged a pair of the Ibis 935's yesterday. I have m615 brakes so centerlock is fine, just need to order some rotors and tires and then we'll see how this bad boy climbs without boat anchors!
> 
> Any suggestions on tires that play well with the wider rims? Given that this is gonna be on a hardtail and built to climb but also have fun on the way down.


Nobby Nic 29x2.6, or Rekon 2.6 
I had NN's and loved them... almost enough to give up my 29x3.0 wheels. Really fantastic tire. Havent ridden Rekons but hear great things.

If you need something burlier, cant go wrong with Minion 2.5


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Hey guys. Looking to get the best value possible - good rim for good price. Looking at nextie promotion rims on eBay, and hulksport. Does anyone have any experience with hulk?


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## MikeInPA (Mar 18, 2017)

The Logo line comes with Sapim D-light spokes, which are on my LB wheels....no complaints after six months of gnar. So, I might just go for the Logos


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

ARandomBiker said:


> Nobby Nic 29x2.6, or Rekon 2.6
> I had NN's and loved them... almost enough to give up my 29x3.0 wheels. Really fantastic tire. Havent ridden Rekons but hear great things.
> 
> If you need something burlier, cant go wrong with Minion 2.5


Confused, that's a 29er plus tire I'm not even sure would fit? The bike is either 27.5+ or 29er. I've got Ikon 2.8's on the 27.5 plus. For the 29er wheels I'm thinking lighter more XC oriented, with a profile that should work well with wider rims.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Vanity spokes that offer no real advantage, but you can set up nextie or light bicycle with these as well, they offer them on their sites. Not sure what makes the Ibis a "high end" set, except that it costs more. You get the same "high end spokes" if you want with either.


weight. chances are you know the speak about how the xray is made, hammered flat etc. if you do or do not believe that is an advantage is up to you but the weight is measurable. this and the aerolite hold up very well under hard riding. plain lightweight spokes like the revolution.....don't. dt and saipem have technical docs on this and why they are recommended for enduro and even DH

as for high end. it's feel and resale. some people may say a blank chinese frame is the same as one from ibis or santa cruz. if they like it, cool. i think there is a difference and regardless of if you do or do not resale is obvious.

a set of light bike bc13s on i9 hubs with xray spokes costs the same as the ibis wheels do now at 1300 and change. the ibis rims are also asymmetrical. if you get those with light bike the cost becomes even more than ibis currently


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

big_slacker said:


> Confused, that's a 29er plus tire I'm not even sure would fit? The bike is either 27.5+ or 29er. I've got Ikon 2.8's on the 27.5 plus. For the 29er wheels I'm thinking lighter more XC oriented, with a profile that should work well with wider rims.


have you tried the nobby nic addix speedgrip? it's nearly as fast as a low pro xc tire but doesn't go to hell the second it gets loose. as long as you don't square them off too bad the rolling resistance is the best i have ever ridden for a knobby. 2.35 on a 25mm rim, 2.6 on a 30mm rim, 2.8 on a 35mm rim etc would be my starting points. really good xc/trail tire with low rolling resistance


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

racebum said:


> have you tried the nobby nic addix speedgrip? it's nearly as fast as a low pro xc tire but doesn't go to hell the second it gets loose. as long as you don't square them off too bad the rolling resistance is the best i have ever ridden for a knobby. 2.35 on a 25mm rim, 2.6 on a 30mm rim, 2.8 on a 35mm rim etc would be my starting points. really good xc/trail tire with low rolling resistance


I haven't. The last nobby nics I had were good till the limit and then washed out like WTF just happened? 

But.... the 29er 2.6 version is 850+ grams, that's XC/Trail? Maybe I'm overthinking the weight thing, I did just do a 65 miler with a DHF up front, lol!


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

big_slacker said:


> I haven't. The last nobby nics I had were good till the limit and then washed out like WTF just happened?
> 
> But.... the 29er 2.6 version is 850+ grams, that's XC/Trail? Maybe I'm overthinking the weight thing, I did just do a 65 miler with a DHF up front, lol!


i would see if you can weigh one in person or see a pic on the scale. magic mary snake is suppose to be 1000g-ish according to online. in person it's 814g in 2.35

in a + tire you're not going to get ultra light.

the addix speedgrip or softer trailstar aren't so abrupt. trailstar however is more enduro, no super speedy xc rolling resistance.

nobby nic still will wash out faster than mary or a dhf. no getting around that

but they sure roll a hell of a lot better

here the 2.8 is only 844g

Schwalbe Nobby Nic Plus tyre review - MBR


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

The exact equivalent to the Sapim Cx-Ray in weight and performance is the non flattened Laser. Dan's Comp has them with brass Polyax nipples included for $0.95ea.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

racebum said:


> weight. chances are you know the speak about how the xray is made, hammered flat etc.


I know enough to know that Sapim is heavy on the BS marketing. They make outrageous and blatantly false claims. Nothing against their quality, they are decent, but flattened x-ray spokes is about vanity, that's it. Personally, I'd rather go with good hubs, rather than Ibis house-brand, and I'm getting $995 for some asym 40mm light bicycle wheels when the Ibis is showing 1013, these are the LB wheels that are made and stocked in the US.



> The exact equivalent to the Sapim Cx-Ray in weight and performance is the non flattened Laser. Dan's Comp has them with brass Polyax nipples included for $0.95ea.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Vanity spokes that offer no real advantage, but you can set up nextie or light bicycle with these as well, they offer them on their sites. Not sure what makes the Ibis a "high end" set, except that it costs more. You get the same "high end spokes" if you want with either.


Agree. Just got a pair of "Promotion" Nexie rims for $279 delivered. These are the 30mm XC Aysemetric rims. I have a pair of their 38mm rims that have been phenomenal.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Not sure what makes the Ibis a "high end" set, except that it costs more.


7 years warranty on the rim.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

CrozCountry said:


> 7 years warranty on the rim.


We'll see, they say they are warrantied under "normal" riding conditions, but it wouldn't take much for them to deny a warranty based on "you weren't riding them normally". User error is usually not covered in a warranty and I'm more skeptical of grandiose claims (we'll replace wheelsets, etc.). If they have a track record of doing so, good, but then are we subsidizing the cost of replacing them when we buy them? Nothing is free.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

Jayem said:


> We'll see, they say they are warrantied under "normal" riding conditions, but it wouldn't take much for them to deny a warranty based on "you weren't riding them normally". User error is usually not covered in a warranty and I'm more skeptical of grandiose claims (we'll replace wheelsets, etc.). If they have a track record of doing so, good, but then are we subsidizing the cost of replacing them when we buy them? Nothing is free.


i asked about this before i bought a set. they said if a tree jumps out in front of you a replacement rim is $150 for carbon.

the xray is rated at a higher tension than a laster even though they begin life the same. quality control may be the other angle. it's more time consuming and difficult to try and high tension build a laser vs an xray which won't have windup since it's flat and easy to control. i was looking at the bc13 light bike wheelset with i9 hubs and xray spokes. was basically the same price as the ibis sale

weight wise, they came in under advertised. the 735 wheelset was 1524g


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Got my Ibis 935's delivered today. All looks good, no shipping damage, they're true. 1574 grams with valves and tape installed, always a plus to have something come in UNDER stated spec.  

Won't be able to ride tomorrow, I've got some XTR centerlock rotors and Nobby Nic 2.35's coming later in the week. Didn't make sense for me to try 2.6's when I've got a 27.5+ wheelset already that I can use should I really want plus tires. This is meant to be my more XC oriented rig and part time singlespeed. I'll report back once I get a ride in on them.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

big_slacker said:


> Got my Ibis 935's delivered today. All looks good, no shipping damage, they're true. 1574 grams with valves and tape installed, always a plus to have something come in UNDER stated spec.
> 
> Won't be able to ride tomorrow, I've got some XTR centerlock rotors and Nobby Nic 2.35's coming later in the week. Didn't make sense for me to try 2.6's when I've got a 27.5+ wheelset already that I can use should I really want plus tires. This is meant to be my more XC oriented rig and part time singlespeed. I'll report back once I get a ride in on them.


i think you will love them NN runs wide in 2.35. once they stretch out i bet they will measure 2.4 to 2.5 on that rim. i have the 2.35 NNs on my fuel ex with DT 24mm id carbon rims and they measure 2.42

i gave my 735s a first ride today with the bronson, very snappy wheelset, feels light, stiff, i9 hubs are borderline annoying. when you get going that freehub really lets people know you're coming. the 2.35 magic mary / hans damf combo fit great. measured 2.45 for the mary and rode really really well


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

racebum said:


> i9 hubs are borderline annoying. when you get going that freehub really lets people know you're coming.


I run hope pro II evo's on my rigid SS. They're about as loud and they come in handy coming up behind hikers and dog walkers. Just coast a bit, better than a bell.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

racebum said:


> i asked about this before i bought a set. they said if a tree jumps out in front of you a replacement rim is $150 for carbon.


Do they rebuild it for you? $150 is damn near the retail price for one of my chinese carbon rims, except they have a crash-replacement discount, so this doesn't sound like all that great of a deal. That's another $45 to build it these days, if not you are shipping stuff back and forth which also isn't free.

Oh yeah, I saw that about the x-ray, 1500 vs 1600, but Sapim is so full of **** in all sorts of areas and claims that I put exactly zero trust in this.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Do they rebuild it for you? $150 is damn near the retail price for one of my chinese carbon rims, except they have a crash-replacement discount, so this doesn't sound like all that great of a deal. That's another $45 to build it these days, if not you are shipping stuff back and forth which also isn't free.
> 
> Oh yeah, I saw that about the x-ray, 1500 vs 1600, but Sapim is so full of **** in all sorts of areas and claims that I put exactly zero trust in this.


if you think the cheap carbon rims are the same as the higher end ones then yes, maybe it doesn't seem like a good deal

i think there is a substantial difference in feel

150 is cheap for a strong brand name rim. people can buy FS chinese frames for 1k too. if you want a santa cruz it's 3k or 2k on clearance. again.. difference

i realize this thread is designed for people who are insanely cheap and money is everything to them

however, that was the point with the ibis sale. a better resale higher end product for the same as a chinese build with similar gear


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## LD001 (Nov 6, 2016)

Plus of Nextie over Ibis is you can get decals in the colours you want. These Ultralight rims come in at 350 gram with a ID of 28mm and decals in Yeti colours. Other plus is you can choose your own wheelbuilder which makes quite a difference in my experience.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

racebum said:


> if you think the cheap carbon rims are the same as the higher end ones then yes, maybe it doesn't seem like a good deal
> 
> i think there is a substantial difference in feel ...


Blindfolded, I can't tell the difference between carbon and aluminum.

...of course the test rides aren't very long.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

racebum said:


> if you think the cheap carbon rims are the same as the higher end ones then yes, maybe it doesn't seem like a good deal
> 
> i think there is a substantial difference in feel
> 
> ...


Who would by a used set of high end carbon wheels?


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

DeeZee said:


> Who would by a used set of high end carbon wheels?


have you not noticed ebay? market is really strong on 1-2yr old parts if they are still in good condition

i mean https://www.ebay.com/itm/ENVE-M60-F...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

and this is just a 26mm id rim which is on the lower side of what people commonly ride now


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

Lone Rager said:


> Blindfolded, I can't tell the difference between carbon and aluminum.
> 
> ...of course the test rides aren't very long.


oh god i can but i'm not 100% sure if it's the carbon vs alloy or if it's just the weight. no alloy wheelset i have ridden is ever as light. my bronson for example, went from ex471s with xtr hubs and xray spokes. 1800g set to the ibis 735 which was 152x big difference. easier to spin up with the same tires. it could just be the weight but again that's the benefit of carbon vs aluminum


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I don't plan on riding an aluminum rim on a mtb again. When I put a wheelset on my bike built w/ I9 hubs and LB 30mm exterior carbon rims it I was astounded. Aluminum rims just flex so much in cornering. And that was about 4 yrs. ago. I would expect the newer and wider rims to be even more noticeable. Oh and by the way, these were the $150 rims someone dissed above, and they're still going strong. I would agree with frames, but so many inexpensive chinese carbon rims have been around long enough and have good reputations.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> Who would by a used set of high end carbon wheels?


Lots of people. Look at ebay as suggested above.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Got to question if stiffness has any meaning when running plus size tires with sub 20 PSI. Or is it just the weight that people feel, which also becomes a smaller difference proportionally on fat tires.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

racebum said:


> if you think the cheap carbon rims are the same as the higher end ones then yes, maybe it doesn't seem like a good deal
> 
> 150 is cheap for a strong brand name rim. people can buy FS chinese frames for 1k too. if you want a santa cruz it's 3k or 2k on clearance. again.. difference


lol...yeah right.

Well, now that you mention it, I have a Chinese carbon fatbike frame that was about $350, it has 197 thru-axle spacing, two dropout positions, modern shorter chainstay length, etc...

It's pretty badass, thanks for making me remember that.









If there was actually a difference here, like buying some no-name hub with poor materials/design for the freehub mech and we were talking about that vs. a quality design from a reputable manufacturer, then sure. But we are talking about molds, laying some T700 or 800, resin, vacuum bags, and curing. Most of the "high end" carbon manufacturers source their rims right from the big Chinese manufacturers. I have friends that have gone to the factories, and for those that don't, it's not like there's some crazy propriety technology being used that will yield vastly different results. Although lightweight and very strong, it's not all that complicated. I'll pay for quality, that's why I have $250/ea D5 tires, custom-valved fork/shocks, they are worth every penny and there isn't much else that compares. But in other places, I can't justify spending a bunch more when there's no advantage.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It's actually good though that you brought up the chinese carbon FS bikes. I find that the pivots/pivot-designs are one of the weak point on many "reputable" manufacturer carbon frames, and also on the Chinese-direct ones. So I'm lumping more than just the Chinese ones here, but now all of a sudden you are asking the them do a lot more than just produce some carbon shapes, now there are suspension kinematics with AS levels, leverage ratio, how that matches with the progression of the intended shock, loads, geometry, and a plethora of other things. The complexity goes up exponentially compared to rims IME, and you aren't necessarily getting much better with a major manufacturer like giant or trek, most people dump their bike a few seasons later anyway, so most are made to last this long. I find the higher end manufacturers like Pivot, Turner, and others offer higher quality in this area, but again, not always, there are a lot of variables with frames.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Lone Rager said:


> Blindfolded, I can't tell the difference between carbon and aluminum.
> 
> ...of course the test rides aren't very long.


What I notice is that I can push the carbon-wheelset wheels much harder into turns/berms, they feel as if they are riding on rails through those sections and I can carry a lot more speed here. With aluminum rims, it feels like they are "folding over" under the same g-loads. They aren't literally "folding over" of course, but it may be that the forces are pulling the wheel slightly and reducing your traction in the direction you want to go. The carbon wheels feel like they give you the traction right where you want it. They feel more responsible to me to line changes/directional inputs as well. The weight advantage is nice, although a lot of people buy carbon rims that are a LOT wider than what they previous ran with aluminum, negating any weight savings, but in reality the same aluminum rim strength would be a lot more weight. Lastly, ease of tubeless has been a big benefit for me. I've had multiple aluminum "tubeless" rims, but none of those set up as easy as my carbon ones, they seem to be a match made in heaven with their contour/shape that is much more easily produced than an extruded aluminum rim.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

We're talking a $200 difference between the light bike ones and the Ibis sale. Even if this theoretical argument of quality is correct that's like an hour of my professional time. I'm way ok with being a 'sucker' when it comes to something I'm going to be riding for a couple thousand miles a year. It's an almost meaningless cost and not something I'd agonize over even if I was 'wrong'. 

Got my 935s in and some tires mounted. The 2.35's were a bit of a ***** to get on but they aired up super easy with the pancake compressor. They're 2 POUNDS lighter than the 27.5+ wheels/tires I had on the bike. I literally laughed out loud when I was swapping/weighing them. 

They definitely fit with the stealth motif of the bike, although some evil red decals would have been better. Oh well, this thing is gonna climb like a rocket now. I might even put some brakes on it before I go test it.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

big_slacker said:


> We're talking a $200 difference between the light bike ones and the Ibis sale. Even if this theoretical argument of quality is correct that's like an hour of my professional time. D


If you have a big enough discount, great and go for it! It's not like Ibis is a bad company, they definitely make good stuff. I, and a few others, were saying that we'd go with whatever nets us the best wheelset, taking into account things like hubs, as in our experience it's better to go with a good quality hubset, when there's no difference with the rims. Some of the other posters in this thread irrationally believe there's something "special" about paying hundreds more for a certain brand rim, when there's no difference.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

200 diffrence? light bicycle is MORE than ibis with this sale, look at the am728/928 which is most similar to the 735/935 ibis. add i9 hubs and xray spokes. that's 1399 before shipping at light bicycle making LB nearly $100 more. regardless of if you think lasers are the same they are no where near as easy to build with

quit being passive aggressive saying "other poster" the point was always money and it still is. ibis is cheaper which is why i pointed this out in the first place

i think some of you guys just hate brand names. there's no other reason i can think of for the resistance


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

big_slacker said:


> We're talking a $200 difference between the light bike ones and the Ibis sale. Even if this theoretical argument of quality is correct that's like an hour of my professional time. I'm way ok with being a 'sucker' when it comes to something I'm going to be riding for a couple thousand miles a year. It's an almost meaningless cost and not something I'd agonize over even if I was 'wrong'.
> 
> Got my 935s in and some tires mounted. The 2.35's were a bit of a ***** to get on but they aired up super easy with the pancake compressor. They're 2 POUNDS lighter than the 27.5+ wheels/tires I had on the bike. I literally laughed out loud when I was swapping/weighing them.
> 
> They definitely fit with the stealth motif of the bike, although some evil red decals would have been better. Oh well, this thing is gonna climb like a rocket now. I might even put some brakes on it before I go test it.


bike looks awesome !


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

honestly, light bicycle prices are barely worth it. they're themselves 200USD above everyone providing similar rims and wheel assembly.
For DT350 or even Novatech hubs i'd just go with alternatives.
For DT240 or i9's I'd go with the Ibis or NOBL (same price similar stuff, slightly less wide) if you want the wide rim


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

boubla said:


> honestly, light bicycle prices are barely worth it. they're themselves 200USD above everyone providing similar rims and wheel assembly.
> For DT350 or even Novatech hubs i'd just go with alternatives.
> For DT240 or i9's I'd go with the Ibis or NOBL (same price similar stuff, slightly less wide) if you want the wide rim


same thing i thought. didn't seem like a good value. nextie on the other hand is still a value play. their rims are made well and inexpensive. for what light bike wants on a premium build you may as well look at the big names when they are on sale


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

main "issue" with nextie is that the hub selection is dt350 or chosen for low cost, instead of novatec. dt350 is good but more expensive, and chosen is.. hum. idk scares me


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

oh you mean complete wheels? i figured a lot of you guys built your own. if you buy completes you're at the mercy of what's being built. the silly deal right now for super low cost and if someone is still on 142 is the xtr 9020 carbon set at comp cycles. 1620g set with xtr hubs for 600 after the 50 off coupon. only drawback is they are 24mm and i'm not sure if 29 is left or if it's all 27.5 now. great for someone who runs maxxis 2.3s though. those tires work great on 24-25mm id. xtr hubs are probably the best rolling hubs on the market. huge angular contact bearings with dura ace grease


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

racebum said:


> oh you mean complete wheels? i figured a lot of you guys built your own. if you buy completes you're at the mercy of what's being built. the silly deal right now for super low cost and if someone is still on 142 is the xtr 9020 carbon set at comp cycles. 1620g set with xtr hubs for 600 after the 50 off coupon. only drawback is they are 24mm and i'm not sure if 29 is left or if it's all 27.5 now. great for someone who runs maxxis 2.3s though. those tires work great on 24-25mm id. xtr hubs are probably the best rolling hubs on the market. huge angular contact bearings with dura ace grease


Do you have a link for that? Cant find comp cycles anywhere.

Thanks
Abel


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

abelfonseca said:


> Do you have a link for that? Cant find comp cycles anywhere.
> 
> Thanks
> Abel


Competitive Cyclist...

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/mountain-bike-wheels?p=brand:Shimano&nf=1


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## sdmtnbkr (Aug 26, 2011)

Anybody riding diycarbonbike wheels? He's posting on eBay and Pinkbike, offering sales and support stateside. Just curiois if anyone has any experience with the wheels.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

abelfonseca said:


> Do you have a link for that? Cant find comp cycles anywhere.
> 
> Thanks
> Abel


prices have gotten even sillier. cyclepath in portland oregon has the shimano xtr m9020 wheelsets for 499 in 27.5 / 142/100


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

racebum said:


> have you not noticed ebay? market is really strong on 1-2yr old parts if they are still in good condition
> 
> i mean https://www.ebay.com/itm/ENVE-M60-F...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> and this is just a 26mm id rim which is on the lower side of what people commonly ride now


Let me put it another way. Why would anyone buy used "high end" carbon rims without a warranty for more $$ than LB, Nextie or Carbonfan rims. Makes zero sense.

Break a Enve rim and not the original owner.....you are SOL.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

boubla said:


> main "issue" with nextie is that the hub selection is dt350 or chosen for low cost, instead of novatec. dt350 is good but more expensive, and chosen is.. hum. idk scares me


Also 240s, Hopes, Fatlab, I've heard with many of these companies you can get others by asking for custom builds, but I don't have anyone else build my wheels.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

DeeZee said:


> Let me put it another way. Why would anyone buy used "high end" carbon rims without a warranty for more $$ than LB, Nextie or Carbonfan rims. Makes zero sense.
> 
> Break a Enve rim and not the original owner.....you are SOL.


all true. i would only buy these new. you would only buy these new but some people don't value the warranty as they have never needed one. they buy for the prestige and they buy because they see them as being better than no name rims. if you're heavily involved in biking you know light bike and nextie make a good product but there are other small shops cranking out carbon bike parts that are not good quality. i'm sure some worry about QC while a brand name gives them the feeling of confidence


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## liv2_mountain_bike (Nov 7, 2011)

My 2 cents worth:

I used to be extremely skeptical about these bargain Chinese carbon rims... until I built up a set of NOX. I got an okay deal at the time ($300 per rim at Backcountry), but I had just cracked my second pair of Stan Flows and wanted to try some carbon. I have to admit, they built up extremely true in record time. I laced a pair of the 29er 35mm I.D. assymetrical rims to King hubs. I have over 2 years of rock bashing on these. My usual trails are Downieville DH, Mr. Toads, Demo area trails, Northstar area, and Mammoth area. These wheels have taken a beating. They are scratched, gouged, and marked up all over, but no breaks. I run 25 psi in a tubeless setup (no cinch bead, just straight wall). After my experience with these, I was looking for another NOX setup. The prices shot up over $400 to $475 everywhere I looked. I like them, but not for that much when you can get WTB ci TCS 35s with Hope hubs for the same price ($1200 approx). Instead, I found the NEXTIE deal on EBay for $279 as was mentioned above. I built these up for a Yeti SB5c with Hope hubs (36mm wide). I wanted bargain all the way. I built these for under $600 (non boost spacing). Same trails, but only 6 months testing. I gotta say, WOW! I love these things! I built these myself (again) and they built up just as easy as the NOX. I will say that these rims can be hit or miss from batch to batch, but I have been lucky twice. I wouldn't hesitate to get another set. I really want to build a set for my DH rig to see how they hold up. I do take my Yeti down the same trails (shuttle/lift assist), just not quite as fast. Hope this helps anyone.


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

T700, T800 carbon fiber rims, some of rims are on sale now: MTB Rim

All customized wheels are accepted.


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## MeyekulBayrd (Sep 25, 2014)

Anyone used the wheels above? Asking for a friend.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

MeyekulBayrd said:


> Anyone used the wheels above? Asking for a friend.


The ones from this link?



Carbon Speed Bikes said:


> T700, T800 carbon fiber rims, some of rims are on sale now: MTB Rim
> 
> All customized wheels are accepted.


If so, I have 3 sets of their rims and one frame. The third pair of rims and the frame aren't built yet though. I can say that their service is top notch just like their product. But pictures are better so here you go.


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## MeyekulBayrd (Sep 25, 2014)

Niiiiiice.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

I have a set of rims from them, they have been flawless.
Had a couple of rim strikes due to excessive lower pressure riding rocky trails, but no damage at all.
Will buy again from them.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

I've purchased 2 sets for 30mm wide carbon rims from XMcarbonspeed.com, both sets were flawless in the time I owned them, sold the bikes after 2 years on the rims but as far as I know, they are still going strong with the new owners. The carbon hoops are fairly light and strong. They offer an option that deletes the spoke holes so no tape is needed on a tubeless setup. When I am ready for a set of 40mm wide 27.5 wheels w/ DT Swiss hubs, I'll be placing an order for another set with Peter.


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## MTB2223 (Mar 4, 2014)

MeyekulBayrd said:


> Anyone used the wheels above? Asking for a friend.


Yes, I do. In September I've got the wheel set with these rime already for two years and still strong and straight. Broke a couple of spokes because of a bough, but the rim remained straight. Reliable and strong. The weight of my wheel set was 1540 gr. A+++ rims and A+++ seller.


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## MeyekulBayrd (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm liking this feedback. If I ever trash one of my nox wheels I'll definitely try out some of the aforementioned.


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## MTB2223 (Mar 4, 2014)

MeyekulBayrd said:


> I'm liking this feedback. If I ever trash one of my nox wheels I'll definitely try out some of the aforementioned.


Good choice!

Carbon rims remains straight unlike aluminium rims. Although much better. When they fail, they break, but that's when you have a big crash or doing things you shouldn't do. These rims are for XC ( and the XC downhills), not for DH. With XC use, and they I mean heavy XC, they won't let you down. For Sure!


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## MeyekulBayrd (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm not Enduro racer but I may end up at one in WV next year. My farlow wheels are pretty beastly.


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## BTLOS (Oct 28, 2017)

Xiamen Btlos Bicycle Co., Ltd. is a professional Chinese manufacturer that is concerned with the design, development, and production of carbon fiber bicycle road rims, carbon mountain bike rims, carbon fat bike rims and carbon wheelsets.

After many years as an OEM manufacturer/supplier, in 2017, BTLOS launched our consumer website making our years of quality and manufacturing expertise available direct to the consumer at the retail level for the very first time.
btlos.com


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

BTLOS said:


> Xiamen Btlos Bicycle Co., Ltd. is a professional Chinese manufacturer that is concerned with the design, development, and production of carbon fiber bicycle road rims, carbon mountain bike rims, carbon fat bike rims and carbon wheelsets.
> 
> After many years as an OEM manufacturer/supplier, in 2017, BTLOS launched our consumer website making our years of quality and manufacturing expertise available direct to the consumer at the retail level for the very first time.
> www.btlos.com


Yikes. Wish you posted this earlier in the week. Your advanced rims are virtually identical to nextie premium...but much better prices. I bought nextie 29er 36mm premiums, and see you offer a rim that is virtually identical in profile and construction for $70 less a rim!

That would have saved me some dough...


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## BTLOS (Oct 28, 2017)

Hello,
Sorry, it's late to join this party!
If you need other support, don’t hesitate to contact us!


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## BTLOS (Oct 28, 2017)

mjw said:


> Yikes. Wish you posted this earlier in the week. Your advanced rims are virtually identical to nextie premium...but much better prices. I bought nextie 29er 36mm premiums, and see you offer a rim that is virtually identical in profile and construction for $70 less a rim!
> 
> That would have saved me some dough...


Hello,
Sorry, it's late to join this party!
If you need other support, don't hesitate to contact us!


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## BTLOS (Oct 28, 2017)

*Christmas special offers from btlos*

Christmas is coming&#8230;and we're saying 'thanks' to all customers with a SPECIAL OFFER, If the new carbon rims are what you need, or maybe some parts to get your existing ride going, then BTLOS Christmas special sale will be worth checking out.

Whether you need that perfect gift to put under the Christmas tree, or someplace to put the Christmas tree in, now is your chance! From now until December 26th, order any BTLOS Carbon bicycle rims of your choice and get 15% off and the free surprise gift. The coupon code is CHRISTMAS.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

BTLOS said:


> Christmas is coming&#8230;and we're saying 'thanks' to all customers with a SPECIAL OFFER, If the new carbon rims are what you need, or maybe some parts to get your existing ride going, then BTLOS Christmas special sale will be worth checking out.
> 
> Whether you need that perfect gift to put under the Christmas tree, or someplace to put the Christmas tree in, now is your chance! From now until December 26th, order any BTLOS Carbon bicycle rims of your choice and get 15% off and the free surprise gift. The coupon code is CHRISTMAS.
> View attachment 1172690


Only thing that gives me some comfort is that the Nextie rims are well reviewed and proven. That's worth the extra cash 

I would like to try yours also however, at this price


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mjw said:


> Only think that gives me some comfort is that the Nextie rims are well reviewed and proven. That's worth the extra cash
> 
> I would like to try yours also however, at this price


XMCarbonSpeed is well proven in both products and support. Definitely worth checking out if you want something cheaper than Nextie Premium rims. I have 1 set of Nextie's from 4 years ago and 3 sets from XMCarbonSpeed. All have been excellent.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

BTLOS said:


> Christmas is coming&#8230;and we're saying 'thanks' to all customers with a SPECIAL OFFER, If the new carbon rims are what you need, or maybe some parts to get your existing ride going, then BTLOS Christmas special sale will be worth checking out.
> 
> Whether you need that perfect gift to put under the Christmas tree, or someplace to put the Christmas tree in, now is your chance! From now until December 26th, order any BTLOS Carbon bicycle rims of your choice and get 15% off and the free surprise gift. The coupon code is CHRISTMAS.
> View attachment 1172690


I see you include a 3.5% PayPall fee. PayPall specifically forbids fees like that. Check their agreement. You should remove that fee from your checkout procedure. I wouldn't pay it.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

BXCc said:


> XMCarbonSpeed is well proven in both products and support. Definitely worth checking out if you want something cheaper than Nextie Premium rims. I have 1 set of Nextie's from 4 years ago and 3 sets from XMCarbonSpeed. All have been excellent.


Thanks for the recommendation. It's like the freaking wild out there trying to desipher the good and the bad. Nextie has good standing, and Btlos is new. They have a rim that on the surface is identicle, or nearly. Profile and construction. But who's to say the new guy manufacturers to the same standards? How do they sell them for $70 less. Is it a legitimize cost saving, flat out, or willthere be a hit to quality also?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Don't fool yourself, they are all getting profit, some more than others.
Nexties and LB have good products, but they are clearly getting more profit, they are almost not even cheap anymore.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Aglo said:


> Don't fool yourself, they are all getting profit, some more than others.
> Nexties and LB have good products, but they are clearly getting more profit, they are almost not even cheap anymore.


I'm sure you're right. But they all can't be made equally?
Hard to swallow though. I spend nearly 160 more for Nextie. They LOOK identicle profile wise, and both a blend of Toray 700 and 800.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mjw said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. It's like the freaking wild out there trying to desipher the good and the bad. Nextie has good standing, and Btlos is new. They have a rim that on the surface is identicle, or nearly. Profile and construction. But who's to say the new guy manufacturers to the same standards? How do they sell them for $70 less. Is it a legitimize cost saving, flat out, or willthere be a hit to quality also?


And that's the though part, trying to figure out which company will sell decent products AND stand behind those products if something happens.

A lot of the vendors will have similar products since most of the rims are "open mold" rims. Which basically means that any one can sell them. Some companies will buy the rights to certain molds so that way the manufacturer will not sell those rims / frames to anyone else. Also, open mold products are not the same as counterfeit products.

I have heard that there are different levels of rims within the same mold. Sort of like factory seconds and thirds. The more imperfections that the product has, the more the cost goes down. I'm not positive on that though.

I recently bought a frame from XMCarbonSpeed and I contacted the seller about a potential issue with it. Peter was on it super quick and definitely tried to help. Come to find out it was my own dumb fault but it was still nice to know he didn't resort to radio silence as soon as the sale was complete.

LB and Nextie have definitely increased their prices but it seems to be working for them. Nextie has an eBay store with come good deals still though. I've dealt with Nextie, Workswell and XMCarbon and all have been good to their word but the service is where XM stands out.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mjw said:


> I'm sure you're right. But they all can't be made equally?
> Hard to swallow though. I spend nearly 160 more for Nextie. They LOOK identicle profile wise, and both a blend of Toray 700 and 800.


I'm not sure what you paid but I have always figured that $350 to $400 for a pair shipped to the US is pretty good. I've been getting Sapim CX-Ray spokes from XM with the rims so I'm usually in the $500 ballpark. You can definitely find some cheaper though but at what point is it not worth the savings?


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

BXCc said:


> I'm not sure what you paid but I have always figured that $350 to $400 for a pair shipped to the US is pretty good. I've been getting Sapim CX-Ray spokes from XM with the rims so I'm usually in the $500 ballpark. You can definitely find some cheaper though but at what point is it not worth the savings?


I paid 468 usd I think. For premium 36mm 29er rims, shipped to Canada.

The new guys do the clone rim for $350 shipped.

But as you say...hard to know if they will be of the same quality, and whether the service is there, where as Nextie is sort of tested. I do like assurance the the rim coming out of the mold is best quality. Nextie guarantees trueness to within 0.15mm for instance. And it seems like they must be using good ingredients. I am sure resins and such must vary also? Perhaps btlos is buying the rims that don't meet grade A standards, who knows.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

mjw said:


> They have a rim that on the surface is identicle, or nearly. Profile and construction. But who's to say the new guy manufacturers to the same standards?


On the surface all rims are identical. They may even use the same mold, but still be very different.
Variances are in the actual manufacturing process, the layup, quality of results (like voids or inconsistent layup), how the description matches reality (do you really know that it is T700?), the QA process that rims go through (if at all), etc etc.
The same factory can produce on the same production line super duper high end part for a premium brand, and the next day ultra low quality parts. Same production line, same machinery, same workers. Regular day in the office in the garments manufacturing.

The problem with rims is that you cannot see any of the above if you hold two rims in your hand.

To make things worse, even a known product can change specs after a few months of gathering reputation. Very common on Amazon.

The only two things you can do as a consumer:

1. Go with other people's past experience
2. Have good luck


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

The rims come from the same manufacturer and meet a "EN safety requirements standard".before being shipped to Nextie or CarbonFan or XMCarbon or the new BTLOS. I'm seeing some Toray T800 listed in addition to the standard T700. So a supplier can possibly choose a spec.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Yes. Btlos says 25/75 split, 800/700. Nextie says 20/80.
Give or take a % here, a gram there, and a mm in erd elsewhere...they may be the same rim, just about.

Even decals are applied in the same fashion.

Which would you buy?!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I would go with price based on my past experiences. It looks like BTLOS has removed the PayPal fee but charge shipping. For the 39mm inner 29 asym rim CarbonFan is cheaper with free shipping. Also under fat rims the 43mm inner for 2.6" high volume/rounded profile 29 tires like the Bontrager XR4 2.6" when it hits. I use their rims already with zero problems.
https://www.carbonfan.com/2017-carbon-rims-yh-mountain-bike-rims-29er-width-50mm-height-25mm


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mjw said:


> Yes. Btlos says 25/75 split, 800/700. Nextie says 20/80.
> Give or take a % here, a gram there, and a mm in erd elsewhere...they may be the same rim, just about.
> 
> Even decals are applied in the same fashion.
> ...


I would probably split the difference and go with XM with a price that would most likely be a little under $400 shipped. Probably not the cheapest but still cheaper than most with a great service reputation.

Also, if you're interested in more generic carbon info, check out chinertown.com.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

BXCc said:


> I would probably split the difference and go with XM with a price that would most likely be a little under $400 shipped. Probably not the cheapest but still cheaper than most with a great service reputation.
> 
> Also, if you're interested in more generic carbon info, check out chinertown.com.


I did actually buy two sets. XM sells the same rims also, asymetric 38mm external rims. They were cheeper at nextie. But the premium....I paid a premium for. Part of me says cancel my order, but the other part likes assurance in buying from a company with history.

Upon googling, I can see many of these retailers and self proclaimed manufacturing companies are within 20-30 mins drive of one another, or even closer.

I might assemble a map for fun late


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

mjw said:


> Upon googling, I can see many of these retailers and self proclaimed manufacturing companies are within 20-30 mins drive of one another, or even closer.
> 
> I might assemble a map for fun late


Put this company on your map.
厦门鸿基伟业复材科技有限公司 Stren
The English site for
XIAMEN HONGJI WEIYE INDUSTRIAL CO., LTD.
https://www.taipeicycle.com.tw/en_U...3D4776B0CC70690788&currentRow=3&totalCount=11


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mjw said:


> I did actually buy two sets. XM sells the same rims also, asymetric 38mm external rims. They were cheeper at nextie. But the premium....I paid a premium for. Part of me says cancel my order, but the other part likes assurance in buying from a company with history.
> 
> Upon googling, I can see many of these retailers and self proclaimed manufacturing companies are within 20-30 mins drive of one another, or even closer.
> 
> I might assemble a map for fun late


Two sets at $468 per set? Did you get the 36mm wide or 38mm wide? The AS738C from XM are the rims I just got last week so they aren't built up yet. I had them shipped in the same box as a frame so I can't give an exact number but I would put it right around $365 to $375 for the pair shipped to the US. They came in a little below the listed weight.









Personally, I don't think there is much need for the premium rims. I have the older hooked version of the 35mm outer rims from Nextie with 4 seasons and 2500 miles or so on them and not one issue. I've had plenty of rim hits and a bunch of pinched flats as my tire pressure isn't always where it should be. So I can only assume that the new ones would have to be better and stronger.

And if you're making a map, it will get a little crowded. I've been told that there are close to 30 manufacturing plants just in Xaimen.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

BXCc said:


> Two sets at $468 per set? Did you get the 36mm wide or 38mm wide? The AS738C from XM are the rims I just got last week so they aren't built up yet. I had them shipped in the same box as a frame so I can't give an exact number but I would put it right around $365 to $375 for the pair shipped to the US. They came in a little below the listed weight.
> 
> View attachment 1172921
> 
> ...


Okay, so right now I have on order 36mm premium rims in 29" - they cost $468 for the pair. $205 per rim, and $58 for shipping.

In addition, I also bought a set of 27.5" 38mm asym rims from Nextie, identical to yours (38mm outter, 32mm inner, 28mm depth) - those cost me $258.

The 38mm, will end up on a light duty hardtail. The 36mm will end up on a bike that will see bikepark use, jumps and medium to large drops (8-10 feet, to transition of course).

It seems between the two sets, they average out to be an okay deal.

I am still looking at Btlos, and I have been in discussion with Lily, their sales rep. She has been super patient with answering my questions. I do see one difference between their 36mm, and Nextie. Btlos uses 45* overlap, and Nextie uses combination of 30* and 60*, which they claim to be stronger than 45*. I can only assume this means more labour. Hard to know what the value of this really is. However, it does seem like BTLOS aims to please. I was battering her with questions and she was running around taking pictures of boxes of toray CF, dumping information on me about their resins, and was even in discussion with their engineers to answer some of my questions. In the end I got a whack of pictures, many with some atmosphere included - people working, clean facility, and they are def not just a retail face. Prices look to be good because there is no middle man. Very promising, and so far great communication and service - and I haven't even bought anything!!

As for the map....see attached! Only a few added, but you can see they are all very close to one another!


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Well, I went for a set of BTLOS rims also. I have a small whee building gig going and I think I can sell one set or the other, and I am very interested in seeing how the two compare. Given the fact they were 200 CAD less than Nextie, for what might be an identical premium offering rim...well, I had too.

I wrote a new post here if you would like to follow:

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...e-mfg-retail-option-1065277.html#post13465973


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

After years of good service from my light bicycle rims (2sets), I am back on the market for another set of rims. After a quick look at light bicycles jacked up prices (and they still sell one of the rims I have, but inflated the price), they got ruled out pretty quickly. 

Nextie sound like the go to brand these days and I found a few of their rims that fit my range of preferences (weight, width etc). 
I notice there's a reseller of nextie rims here in Australia, and they have a sale on, which refreshingly makes their pricing pretty attractive, making me consider not going direct from China (like I usually would). However, the range the reseller has is not quite as broad (vs the nextie.net range), the local reseller is only discounting a few models, and now nextie.net seems to presently have discounts on most rims, including the ones I want.
So I was going to consider splitting the order between the local reseller and nextie.net (different front and rear rims). I went to check the shipping rates on nextie.net and got denied, and routed to the aussie reseller.

Well, that rules out nextie altogether for me. I have a hatred of restrictive practices like this and will go out of my way to not deal with businesses that do this. Even if the reseller has what I want for a price I am happy with. If the reseller had reasonable prices, as broad a range and/or provided sufficient added value, they wouldn't need to have such restrictions. Obviously the reseller isn't confident that they are providing sufficient added value to justify their mark up. Maybe i am not the right customer for them.

I have dealt with Peter before (when he was at xmiplay), with a good experience getting a frame/fork from him. The xmcarbonspeed discussion here is quite timely - they appear to have very similar rims to nextie, so they are now looking like the better seller for me.


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## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

Recently had a look at the 27.5 rim offerings at XMCarbonSpeed.

The sites' 'get a quote' button wasn't working for me.

Do you just email Peter for a quote on a rim (price + shipping) ?

How would you pay? as I can't see a payment system on the site. Paypal would be good.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

tangerineowl said:


> Recently had a look at the 27.5 rim offerings at XMCarbonSpeed.
> 
> The sites' 'get a quote' button wasn't working for me.
> 
> ...


Which rims?

Yes, emailing him is best. I've always used PayPal with him too.


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

tangerineowl said:


> Recently had a look at the 27.5 rim offerings at XMCarbonSpeed.
> 
> The sites' 'get a quote' button wasn't working for me.
> 
> ...


I believe you should be able to order the rims you need from their new site: OEM Carbon Bicycle Products Supplier-Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

allenc said:


> I believe you should be able to order the rims you need from their new site: OEM Carbon Bicycle Products Supplier-Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


Thanks for that.

I'm looking at either one of these 27.5 options:-

T700/800 Super light Carbon MTB Rim 27.5er Clincher

Super light 27.5er carbon mtb rim clincher

Would use on my gravel bike which is currently using a 20mm inner-width rim.

Was thinking about going to the 22mm inner-width though, as my frame would still be able to fit the tyres I'm using.

Have been locked-in to the Light Bicycle flyweight until now, but CarbonSpeed pricing is quite a bit better.

Would anyone know if the contruction of those two CarbonSpeed rims would be similar to LB?


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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

Is nextie good?...

I am about to buy my first carbon wheelset.

Does anybody know how taxes go there?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Taxes will not be collected by the seller. They may be handled by the freight company delivering in your country. 
For a wheelset also look at CarbonFan for a DT350 hubs with 54t upgrade build.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I'm considering a carbonfan 35mm 29er build w/ DT350 hubs w/ the 54t upgrade. Under $800 and a little over 1600g. I've known riders who have had good experience with Carbonfan and I plan to check the wheelbuild tension and true.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Andy13 said:


> I'm considering a carbonfan 35mm 29er build w/ DT350 hubs w/ the 54t upgrade. Under $800 and a little over 1600g. I've known riders who have had good experience with Carbonfan and I plan to check the wheelbuild tension and true.


I ordered that same set. Should be here any day now.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Got my Nextie rims.

Initial impressions:

On the Premium 29 rims - finish work isn't bad. However, Nextie says on their site that they will be within 0.15mm flatness/roundness. The card attached clearly shows that the rims are outside the guaranteed QC variance. I think that's pretty poor form!

The Asym 27.5 rims are horribly build finished. Very very VERY poorly done. The sidewalls were not build with enough resin and have already started to delaminate - you can stick your finger nail in-between the layers. Design is also pretty terrible - spoke holes on the tire side are centered while the spoke hols on the hub side are asymmetric, so they barely line up. It would be impossible to use a proper nipple driver/nipple wrench to build these - so much for the expensive squorx nips I bought. But, I won't use them anyways because the sidewalls look terrible.

So far, not impressed with Nextie. Definitely not worth the price premium. Not likely I'd evey buy a set to lace and resell to one of my own customers.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Nextie QC Pass:


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mjw said:


> Nextie QC Pass:
> 
> View attachment 1175083


WOW! That is bad form. I hope you moved the sticker to that spot because if they put it there, well that's just not good. I'm fully aware that there is some assumed risk with the quality of generic carbon but that should have been caught and never shipped out.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

BXCc said:


> WOW! That is bad form. I hope you moved the sticker to that spot because if they put it there, well that's just not good. I'm fully aware that there is some assumed risk with the quality of generic carbon but that should have been caught and never shipped out.


No, lol. I did not move the sticker. The entire rim looks like this, in spots wrapping all the way around. The pair is bad, the other a little better but still not acceptable.

I can't believe they shipped these out. They are fit for the garbage bin.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mjw said:


> No, lol. I did not move the sticker. The entire rim looks like this, in spots wrapping all the way around. The pair is bad, the other a little better but still not acceptable.
> 
> I can't believe they shipped these out. They are fit for the garbage bin.
> View attachment 1175109


I would have to agree with you on this. Have you filed a claim? Where did you purchase this set? From the site when you ordered the not so "Premium" rims or from eBay? Nextie has some good prices on eBay right now so I'm wondering if these are the "Promotion" rims they have listed.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

I bought a set of premium and ordered a not-so-premium rims in addition. These would be the not-so-premium rims. Bought direct from Nextie.

I've e-mailed Nextie with pic's and to let them know I'm not happy.

The premium rims were also not within the tolerance for flatness and roundness they guarantee on their website


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

I had an issue with a order from Nextie, and as unfortunate as it was to have to deal with it, I have to say that they took care of it as expediently as i could hope for. Let them know, I'll be surprised if they fail to take care of you.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

dimitrin said:


> I had an issue with a order from Nextie, and as unfortunate as it was to have to deal with it, I have to say that they took care of it as expediently as i could hope for. Let them know, I'll be surprised if they fail to take care of you.


I hope so! Frustrating regardless. And embarassing when this set of for someone else.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I just ordered 4 more rims from Nextie since I was so happy with my first set. Will be interested to hear about the resolution.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

spsoon said:


> I just ordered 4 more rims from Nextie since I was so happy with my first set. Will be interested to hear about the resolution.


Still no response from Nextie. I wrote on the 29th. I assume they are not responding because it's the holidays, so I'll give them another day or so. If nothing by the 3rd, I'll be openning a PayPal dispute for sure.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Nextie is back from holidays. They have been very apologetic. They are lining up a new set for me tomorrow, and have refunded me a small amount as a token apology. I'm pretty happy with the response! Good guys, Brian and Max.

Sounds like they were bad samples they had lying around and did not mean to sell/ship them. The next set should be factory fresh.


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## liv2_mountain_bike (Nov 7, 2011)

I hate to say it, but those are some of the nastiest looking carbon rims... guaranteed to de-laminate after a good rock hit. Sucks you had to deal with that and the odds weren't in your favor (maybe stay away from Vegas for a while?). That said, though..
I would expect nothing less from them for customer service. They actually out-sold a set that I had purchased on Ebay last year. They contacted me a few days after the sale and asked if they could "upgrade me" to a thicker walled and heavier set of rims (extra DH layup build for an all-mountain rim set). This is actually what I wanted all along, but they were sold out at the time. They had just made a batch of these beefier rims and reached out to me to inquire about the substitution. I have been smashing these rims for 8 months 3 times a week and cannot destroy them. Perhaps it was the excellent wheel builder... (me). (Build: Hope Pro 4 hubs, Wheelsmith 14/15 DB spokes, aluminum 16mm nips, built to 125 to 130kgf, running tubeless at 27 psi) Me: 215# w/o gear, very aggressive expert rider). When in doubt, reach out to them and see what they can do for you. They are very very busy, but also extremely accommodating. 1-1/2 weeks from overseas was all it took to get mine. I will be buying more sets from them when I decide on hubs for a new Devinci Troy. Cheers


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## kieljon (Sep 7, 2015)

liv2_mountain_bike said:


> I hate to say it, but those are some of the nastiest looking carbon rims... guaranteed to de-laminate after a good rock hit. Sucks you had to deal with that and the odds weren't in your favor (maybe stay away from Vegas for a while?). That said, though..
> I would expect nothing less from them for customer service. They actually out-sold a set that I had purchased on Ebay last year. They contacted me a few days after the sale and asked if they could "upgrade me" to a thicker walled and heavier set of rims (extra DH layup build for an all-mountain rim set). This is actually what I wanted all along, but they were sold out at the time. They had just made a batch of these beefier rims and reached out to me to inquire about the substitution. I have been smashing these rims for 8 months 3 times a week and cannot destroy them. Perhaps it was the excellent wheel builder... (me). (Build: Hope Pro 4 hubs, Wheelsmith 14/15 DB spokes, aluminum 16mm nips, built to 125 to 130kgf, running tubeless at 27 psi) Me: 215# w/o gear, very aggressive expert rider). When in doubt, reach out to them and see what they can do for you. They are very very busy, but also extremely accommodating. 1-1/2 weeks from overseas was all it took to get mine. I will be buying more sets from them when I decide on hubs for a new Devinci Troy. Cheers


Really glad to hear. Was following the thread to see what the resolution would be like. If you don't mind, would love to read your thoughts (and see pictures) of the replacements they send!


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

Andy13 said:


> I'm considering a carbonfan 35mm 29er build w/ DT350 hubs w/ the 54t upgrade. Under $800 and a little over 1600g. I've known riders who have had good experience with Carbonfan and I plan to check the wheelbuild tension and true.


That's what I was looking at as well. But I didn't find where on the build description or site does it list the total wheelset weight as per spec?
Light Bicycle tallies it up as you go, but dunno on the Carbonfan site.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

The question is if the QC sticker on your new rims is going to be worth more than the sticker on the current rims. For every defect you see, there are many more you don't. Especially in carbon which is a manual process.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

I have ordered from EIE now. Asymmetric 29:er wheels with Hope hubs. I will report on how long it takes and how the quality is.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I just built a set of the Nextie AM35 29 hoops for someone. They were fine, actually had a very nice finish to them. I have another set for my own use that I'll be lacing soon. I got mine with the matte black logo and they look awesome. They'll go good on my Following which is all black.


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## kieljon (Sep 7, 2015)

Rngspnr said:


> I just built a set of the Nextie AM35 29 hoops for someone. They were fine, actually had a very nice finish to them. I have another set for my own use that I'll be lacing soon. I got mine with the matte black logo and they look awesome. They'll go good on my Following which is all black.


Mind sharing a few pics when you get it all set up?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

kieljon said:


> Mind sharing a few pics when you get it all set up?


Will do.


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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

eb1888 said:


> Taxes will not be collected by the seller. They may be handled by the freight company delivering in your country.
> For a wheelset also look at CarbonFan for a DT350 hubs with 54t upgrade build.


I actually went to nextie at the end, I got a nice (small) discount on top of the chrismas sale; got some DT240 54T straightpull with pillar spokes and the XC version of premium asymmetric NXT29XA32, 28 spokes; I got taxes paid, but overall this is the most expensive part I bought for my bike so far; but I hope the performance pays for it.

I haven't heard from nextie since I bought it, I guess mine will be one of the last ones in the batch; but we are covered in snow in here so MTBing is futile until spring; so it's about waiting.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Feli said:


> I actually went to nextie at the end, I got a nice (small) discount on top of the chrismas sale; got some DT240 54T straightpull with pillar spokes and the XC version of premium asymmetric NXT29XA32, 28 spokes; I got taxes paid, but overall this is the most expensive part I bought for my bike so far; but I hope the performance pays for it.
> 
> I haven't heard from nextie since I bought it, I guess mine will be one of the last ones in the batch; but we are covered in snow in here so MTBing is futile until spring; so it's about waiting.


Nextie are friendly, and eventually will reply to emails, but not stellar on timely responses. I assume they are backed up from the holidays as they took time off. It's frustrating. With the the time difference, it can take days to finalized a few small details or get clarity around something that should be fairly simple. I've found some other sellers to be much more responsive in my short time looking to pick up a supplier for carbon rims.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mjw said:


> Nextie are friendly, and eventually will reply to emails, but not stellar on timely responses. I assume they are backed up from the holidays as they took time off. It's frustrating. With the the time difference, it can take days to finalized a few small details or get clarity around something that should be fairly simple. I've found some other sellers to be much more responsive in my short time looking to pick up a supplier for carbon rims.


Having bought from Nextie and others, I can agree with this. Nextie is definitely a reputable company, but contacting Peter from XMCarbon with FB Messenger is just so easy and convenient. I don't get the standard "I don't understand, I'm using a translator" from Peter either so commutation is a breeze.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

BXCc said:


> Having bought from Nextie and others, I can agree with this. Nextie is definitely a reputable company, but contacting Peter from XMCarbon with FB Messenger is just so easy and convenient. I don't get the standard "I don't understand, I'm using a translator" from Peter either so commutation is a breeze.


Trying to manage getting replacements for the set that arrived with the whack resin job and delamination. It's next to impossible to get a guarantee the next see will be made properly. It's literally taking days to explain and get some guarantee on the most trivial stuff, like proper spoke hole drilling. And then they come back with things, they are giving me different rim measurements and so on, which causes issues because I already have Salim d-lights purchases and in hand to lace wheels on the original dimensions.

In stark contrast, I have been talking with BTLOS, after purchasing two sets of their rims now, one for my own analysis/comparison and one for a friend to lace up, and Lily has been a true gem. Very responsive, and not just in the narrow 3-4 hour band of time I should be in deep sleep. Her English is superb, and she is knowledgable, and smack dab in the middle of a factory so she can get detailed answers quick. When they get a few more rim profiles open, I think they will be one of the top options. Until then, they still have a few goodies, and amazing service. My BTLOS ship tonight while I sleep - looking forward to handling them.


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## carrier (Jan 1, 2018)

I've been a huge consumer of information on this site while I figure out what I want to build and am thankful for all the information you guys have put out there for me to digest.

I am building some 29+ wheels (for my Trek Stache) and was torn what width to buy. I messaged back and forth with BTLOS and Carbonfan and have similar experience as others. BTLOS was incredibly quick to respond, Carbonfan usually had a day or two lead time. I ended up going with Carbonfan because they offered the width closer to what I have now. BTLOS said they were expecting new molds in 1-2 months for something closer to what I wanted, but I just didn't want to wait.

Carbonfan didn't show an offset spoke hole drilling option for the for the rim I wanted, but after a couple days they responded that the option had been added to their website - and sure enough it was there, ready to be selected. I ordered them on Christmas day, and hadn't heard anything until I sent a message asking the status yesterday. I got a response that they still need a few days to finish the rims. It's been ridiculously cold recently, so I am not in a huge hurry, but I am looking forward to building them. 

I'll share my thoughts when I get them.


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

I ordered superlite cx wheels from carbonfan Dec 30th. Had also just received another set of cx wheels that were not the superlite model. Looking to see actual weight difference between the two sets. Both have exact same hub specs. First set was 1410gr and looked great. Dt350 straight pull 28 hole thru axle dt driver.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

carrier said:


> I've been a huge consumer of information on this site while I figure out what I want to build and am thankful for all the information you guys have put out there for me to digest.
> 
> I am building some 29+ wheels (for my Trek Stache) and was torn what width to buy. I messaged back and forth with BTLOS and Carbonfan and have similar experience as others. BTLOS was incredibly quick to respond, Carbonfan usually had a day or two lead time. I ended up going with Carbonfan because they offered the width closer to what I have now. BTLOS said they were expecting new molds in 1-2 months for something closer to what I wanted, but I just didn't want to wait.
> 
> ...


What rims did you go with exactly? Want to post a link?


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

1st set already received are 700c road gravel clincher 29mm wide 21 ID. Wheels on order are 28 OD 22ID superlite t800.


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## carrier (Jan 1, 2018)

mjw said:


> What rims did you go with exactly? Want to post a link?


I went with these: https://www.carbonfan.com/carbon-mountain-bike-rims-am-width-50mm-depth-25mm-29er

They have all the same numbers as another one they offer (which look to be exactly the same as the Nextie Crocodile) but I liked the smoother inner surface better on the ones I ordered. Interestingly the smoother inner surface has a higher listed weight (although tiny, 5g). Makes me wonder if the Nextie Crocodile clone has material removed between spoke holes to get the raised inner surface vs the smooth one I went with. Who knows.

It's amazing how easy it is to agonize over the decision of which rim to go with from all the different companies. I was calculating and modeling air volume differences, spoke angles, etc. I finally realized I probably wouldn't ever be able to tell much difference, and the price variance was about what I'd blow on a friendly round of beers before going to see a game, so I went with the ones that would be closest to the stock wheels I have now.

I'll definitely be checking them over carefully after seeing your experience. I'm hoping the rims are of good quality because the hubs I got to build them up with seem pretty amazing (onyx). Here is a shameless video I just uploaded showing the hubs I got.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Are there any 27.5+ rims that stand out these days?

Some priorities include offset spoke drilling, angled drilling, high-30 to 45mm internal width.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

carrier said:


> I went with these: https://www.carbonfan.com/carbon-mountain-bike-rims-am-width-50mm-depth-25mm-29er
> 
> They have all the same numbers as another one they offer (which look to be exactly the same as the Nextie Crocodile) but I liked the smoother inner surface better on the ones I ordered. Interestingly the smoother inner surface has a higher listed weight (although tiny, 5g). Makes me wonder if the Nextie Crocodile clone has material removed between spoke holes to get the raised inner surface vs the smooth one I went with. Who knows.
> 
> ...


Ohhhhh onyx =)

I have One set of Nobl wheels with Nobl (Onyx) hubs, one set of Onyx hubs laced to WTB Asym i35's, and one set of True Precision Stealth hubs laced to DT EX471. We also have some i9's, XTR, DT 350 and 240s, and one set Novatec factors in our house right now. Just an FYI, I am a small time wheel builder, so I have wheels cycling through all the time. My primary reason for being here - I am looking for some quality carbon at good prices, so I can pass that along to the clubs/folks I build for.

Onxy, have to be my favorite. They aren't light, but it hardly matters as the weight is at the hub centre and does not really affect the over all feel of the wheel. The clutch is great. TP Stealth hubs have a slightly crisper clutch, but man it's so much more work to maintain. I had my set of TP on trail for 4 days of wet riding and didn't do the proper maintenance right after. Tried to use them after sitting for 2 weeks and the thing was totally ceized, and several bearings needed to be replaced. In contrast, I have ridden Onyx/Nobl for several seasons with zero attention...i.e. complete neglect, and they still roll smooth as butter. Hard to go back to non-clutch hubs after. I have a set of 240's currently being laced to my new bikes and I am not sure they will cut it long-term, but the bike is a pig and I am trying to shave some pounds.

You are going to love those things!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mjw said:


> Hard to go back to non-clutch hubs after


I think you mean "non-sprag". The sprag-clutch is just one type of clutch, and rachets or ring-drives are others. Without a clutch, we wouldn't be going anywhere, unless we were using fixed-gear hubs.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mjw said:


> I have a set of 240's currently being laced to my new bikes and I am not sure they will cut it long-term, but the bike is a pig and I am trying to shave some pounds.


I don't think the 240s are going to give up anything to any other hub in terms of durability. I have a set with 30,000 miles on them.

Whether 54t engagement "works" for you is subjective, but I doubt any other hub will outlive them.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Jayem said:


> I think you mean "non-sprag". The sprag-clutch is just one type of clutch, and rachets or ring-drives are others. Without a clutch, we wouldn't be going anywhere, unless we were using fixed-gear hubs.


Touche! I suppose you are right, yes. Roller and/or sprag clutch, vs pawl and tooth, or ratched design. You know what I mean =)


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

And I think you are probably right.
240s with 54T will perform. Absolutely, you are right. 

The silence and virtualy instant engagement of the Onyx/TP hubs is a very sweet thing. But so is the simplicity and durability of the DT Swiss design. I can't really fault either.


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## carrier (Jan 1, 2018)

mjw said:


> Ohhhhh onyx =)
> 
> I have One set of Nobl wheels with Nobl (Onyx) hubs, one set of Onyx hubs laced to WTB Asym i35's, and one set of True Precision Stealth hubs laced to DT EX471. We also have some i9's, XTR, DT 350 and 240s, and one set Novatec factors in our house right now. Just an FYI, I am a small time wheel builder, so I have wheels cycling through all the time. My primary reason for being here - I am looking for some quality carbon at good prices, so I can pass that along to the clubs/folks I build for.
> 
> ...


If Onyx are your favorite after all those other options, that makes me feel pretty good about my decision!

Since you build wheels more wheels than I do, what tension do you take the spokes up to when you build? Do you go straight to the max stated by the manufacturer, or to you lay off it a little? Onyx says max 120kgf, Carbonfan says 130kgf on their rims. So would you take it to 120?


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

I would take to 120 kgf, yes sir!


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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

mjw said:


> Trying to manage getting replacements for the set that arrived with the whack resin job and delamination. It's next to impossible to get a guarantee the next see will be made properly. It's literally taking days to explain and get some guarantee on the most trivial stuff, like proper spoke hole drilling. And then they come back with things, they are giving me different rim measurements and so on, which causes issues because I already have Salim d-lights purchases and in hand to lace wheels on the original dimensions.
> 
> In stark contrast, I have been talking with BTLOS, after purchasing two sets of their rims now, one for my own analysis/comparison and one for a friend to lace up, and Lily has been a true gem. Very responsive, and not just in the narrow 3-4 hour band of time I should be in deep sleep. Her English is superb, and she is knowledgable, and smack dab in the middle of a factory so she can get detailed answers quick. When they get a few more rim profiles open, I think they will be one of the top options. Until then, they still have a few goodies, and amazing service. My BTLOS ship tonight while I sleep - looking forward to handling them.


Damn you are scaring me out, I hope I don't get to have the same situation as you did; I wonder if they were experimenting, what they were experimenting with?


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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

BXCc said:


> Having bought from Nextie and others, I can agree with this. Nextie is definitely a reputable company, but contacting Peter from XMCarbon with FB Messenger is just so easy and convenient. I don't get the standard "I don't understand, I'm using a translator" from Peter either so commutation is a breeze.


But don't you also contact nextie via facebook, that's what I do at least.

I worry mostly about the quality of the rim and wheelbuild.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

BXCc said:


> Having bought from Nextie and others, I can agree with this. Nextie is definitely a reputable company, but contacting Peter from XMCarbon with FB Messenger is just so easy and convenient. I don't get the standard "I don't understand, I'm using a translator" from Peter either so commutation is a breeze.


I have friends that have gone over there and talked to Peter face-to-face, it's on the up and up.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

reamer41 said:


> Are there any 27.5+ rims that stand out these days?
> 
> Some priorities include offset spoke drilling, angled drilling, high-30 to 45mm internal width.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Nothing?


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## crash5 (Jan 9, 2018)

1.5 million views, **** responding to my question regarding a new rider, I'll figure it out on my own later. Think I found a new stock to invest in.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

reamer41 said:


> Nothing?


I've been running the 29" version of these for 2 years now with great results.

RM750C 27.5+ mtb carbon rim clincher/tubeless ready 50mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

reamer41 said:


> Nothing?


I picked up a set of 39mm IW from XMapex out of China. They gave me options on spoke holes, spoke angle, layup, and finish. So far, I've bought 4 pairs of rims with no issues.

Built up on Hope Pro 4 and DT Competition spokes.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

carrier said:


> what tension do you take the spokes up to when you build? Do you go straight to the max stated by the manufacturer, or to you lay off it a little? Onyx says max 120kgf, Carbonfan says 130kgf on their rims. So would you take it to 120?


Tension the wheel in stages with a stress relief between each stage. 120kgf may be one side and 90kgf the other for the offset.
Wheels Building -read this.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Got my Carbonfan Wheelset. Check out my first impressions review if you are interested.
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...nfan-asymmetric-initial-thoughts-1066534.html


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## carrier (Jan 1, 2018)

Thanks for the advice and the link. I’ve never come across it before. I don’t build wheels often, but my nature is perfection when building and this seems like an excellent reference for a refresher if it’s been a while.

Still waiting on my rims to come. Once they do I can measure ERD and buy some spokes. The waiting game is tough!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

carrier said:


> Thanks for the advice and the link. I've never come across it before. I don't build wheels often, but my nature is perfection when building and this seems like an excellent reference for a refresher if it's been a while.
> 
> Still waiting on my rims to come. Once they do I can measure ERD and buy some spokes. The waiting game is tough!


You're going to be suprised at how easy it is to build with carbon rims. It's the stiffness. They almost build themselves. I use Sapim Laser spokes with the included Sapim Polyax brass nipples from Dans Comp at 0.95 each in black with chrome nipples. Brass will not corrode. Lasers add a very small amount of compliance. Great for a ht.
https://www.danscomp.com/products/435128/Sapim_Laser_Black_Spoke.html


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

eb1888 said:


> You're going to be suprised at how easy it is to build with carbon rims. It's the stiffness. They almost build themselves. I use Sapim Laser spokes with the included Sapim Polyax brass nipples from Dans Comp at 0.95 each in black with chrome nipples. Brass will not corrode. Lasers add a very small amount of compliance. Great for a ht.
> https://www.danscomp.com/products/435128/Sapim_Laser_Black_Spoke.html


Little off topic but I just ordered some Ti spokes from Danscomp.com. Had to phone in the order but they were great to deal with.


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## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

XMapex 27.5 rims for 38cents 

Good quality !! Full carbon Toray T700 fiber carbon rims, 27.5er 27mm width superlight APEX Bikes


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

kieljon said:


> Mind sharing a few pics when you get it all set up?

















New Nexties. Increasing my carbon footprint


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## kieljon (Sep 7, 2015)

Rngspnr said:


> View attachment 1177920
> View attachment 1177921
> 
> 
> New Nexties. Increasing my carbon footprint


She's a beaut... Thanks for sharing.


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## hellion (Jan 17, 2018)

Very interesting thread. I'm trying to pick out a set of rims for a build I'll be doing on a set of DT240 hubs. I'm looking for something with an internal width 25-27mm, and a weight goal of under 400g. I've found a Nextie and a Carbonfan that fit that bill. The nextie is $220 ea. and the Carbonfan $175. Both seem like reputable companies and the rims seem like either would work. My question; The Carbonfan goes into detail in their description explaining that these rims are a classic aluminum rim style geometry and are best for a first time carbon rim user, and says that this particular rim is very different from their other rim line. What in the world does that mean? I was thinking that spoke geometry would be the same if using the same pattern, and even still, how could that make a difference. Thanks for any input


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

hellion said:


> Very interesting thread. I'm trying to pick out a set of rims for a build I'll be doing on a set of DT240 hubs. I'm looking for something with an internal width 25-27mm, and a weight goal of under 400g. I've found a Nextie and a Carbonfan that fit that bill. The nextie is $220 ea. and the Carbonfan $175. Both seem like reputable companies and the rims seem like either would work. My question; The Carbonfan goes into detail in their description explaining that these rims are a classic aluminum rim style geometry and are best for a first time carbon rim user, and says that this particular rim is very different from their other rim line. What in the world does that mean? I was thinking that spoke geometry would be the same if using the same pattern, and even still, how could that make a difference. Thanks for any input


Either of these would work. Well, one is 28mm wide internal. As for XMCarbonspeed being reputable, check out chinertown.com.

25mm inner, T700 360g, T800 310g
T700/800 Asymetric mtb carbon rim

28mm inner, T700 430g, T800 350g
29er 34mm wide mtb 29 carbon rim clincher


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

hellion said:


> Very interesting thread. I'm trying to pick out a set of rims for a build I'll be doing on a set of DT240 hubs. I'm looking for something with an internal width 25-27mm, and a weight goal of under 400g. I've found a Nextie and a Carbonfan that fit that bill. The nextie is $220 ea. and the Carbonfan $175. Both seem like reputable companies and the rims seem like either would work. My question; The Carbonfan goes into detail in their description explaining that these rims are a classic aluminum rim style geometry and are best for a first time carbon rim user, and says that this particular rim is very different from their other rim line. What in the world does that mean? I was thinking that spoke geometry would be the same if using the same pattern, and even still, how could that make a difference. Thanks for any input


I'd suggest asymetrical rims like these with 29mm inner width at 400g 
https://www.carbonfan.com/asymmetric-carbon-mountain-bike-rims-am-dh-width-35mm-29er
They build easier because the spoke tensions with the offsets are closer to the same. And they're stronger.
They are plus or minus 15g so if you put a message in the note box asking for rims at the low end of the weight range you could get under 400g to as low as 385g.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

Hi eb, do you have any concerns that a wider rim at that weight won't be stiff enough? Many rims that wide are ~450g

Thanks!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

PuddleDuck said:


> Hi eb, do you have any concerns that a wider rim at that weight won't be stiff enough? Many rims that wide are ~450g
> 
> Thanks!


The rim has 3mm beads so it'll be reasonable sturdy as an AM rim. If your use is mainly XC it should, based on my use, hold up fine. If you want to run higher speeds with bigger jumps and/or are heavier you can ask for a heavier built rim. Some of this is down to the tires you can run on your terrain. You can also add rim protection with Cush Core.
CushCore


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

eb1888 said:


> I'd suggest asymetrical rims like these with 29mm inner width at 400g
> https://www.carbonfan.com/asymmetric-carbon-mountain-bike-rims-am-dh-width-35mm-29er
> They build easier because the spoke tensions with the offsets are closer to the same. And they're stronger.


Not as simple as that, the lightest T800 rims have been built symmetrical, because they found that the best impact resistance is with symmetrical, which is a tradeoff for a slight decrease in overall strength comparatively.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Still going back and fourth on my replacement rims with Nextie for the ones with the horrible resin job/sidewall delamination. Oh, and the messed up spoke drilling, lets not forget that.

This has been the most painful experience. I was in touch with them at the beginning of the month (originals were ordered early in December) and the replacements are still not finalized. 

Weeks ago I was promised pictures to ensure spoke drilling was up to spec (mainly so I can build with a squorx or double square style nip). Rims were supposed to be finished Monday past, long after the 10 day production date originally specified, and I get a picture of the rim laid flat yesterday, after requesting the pictures I was promised. No detail shot of the drilling or anything. They totally forgot!

This set is being laced for someone else to boot, so thus far it has been a complete embarrassment for me. Originally I had thought I could use Nextie as a supplier but I now have serious doubts. The only reason I want to conclude the deal with Nextie is that I have hubs and spokes already on hand and purchases for the dimensions of this rim.

Since I have done my original Nextie order, I have ordered several sets from BTLOS - without a hitch. Communication is primo, service is primo, rims are primo. I have found my supplier here for sure.

I will update on the Nexties again when I have them in hand. Hopefully they get made properly!!!


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

mjw said:


> Still going back and fourth on my replacement rims with Nextie for the ones with the horrible resin job/sidewall delamination. Oh, and the messed up spoke drilling, lets not forget that.
> 
> This has been the most painful experience. I was in touch with them at the beginning of the month (originals were ordered early in December) and the replacements are still not finalized.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update. BTLOS seems to be holding true so far which is great. Hopefully they will be better than Nexite has been for you if an issue ever comes up. That's not sarcasm towards them, it's just where a lot of the lower cost generic carbon suppliers fall short. It would be great to see a few great suppliers to deal with. Especially since LB and Nexite are starting to raise their prices.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I just received 4 rims from Carbonfan. 29er, 35mm width (29mm ID), asymmetric, AM model (400g). 20 days from order to delivery to Colorado. All the rims look great, no visible imperfections. Weights all around 390g. These will be built using Project 321 boost rear hubs (with new in house pawls and drive rings), Bitex boost 211F front hubs, Sapim Laser spokes and alloy nipples. 28H/28H for the wife and 32H/28H for me. Both sets going on Intense Primers. Pictures to follow, after build.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

I received a pair of rims from xmcarbonspeed. I ordered the assymetric T800 30mm rims. I haven't had a real good look at them, but I haven't spotted any defects yet. They weighed in at 303/307 which is under the claimed 310g. Geez, have I gone too weight weenie? I haven't put the calipers to them, but a rough measurement with a ruler indicates that they are under the spec 30mm outside width (around 29.5mm) and around the specced 25mm internal width. It seems that they have lost the width in the lip thickness, which looks to be not much more than 2mm. Good thing I intend to run these exclusively on my xc race bike, and with the kind of tyres/pressure/terrain I encounter means that i very rarely feel the rim bottom, as these rims don't look like they could take much punishment.


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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

This is my first carbon set so I am not sure what to think about the entire situation; I just hope everything turns out fine for you, I haven't had any communication problems with Nextie even when I use facebook and not email and I guess that being way closer to china I usually get in their working hours, but it gets me nervous, I saved 100$ each month for 10 months to get this wheelset, the most expensive part of the bike, virtually the best nextie offers on XC and while I am a plush rider I don't want them to fail or be damaged.

I suppose that depending to how your situation turns out will give me an idea too, my wheels are also on the way, and I am very nervous.


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## nzambec2 (Jan 2, 2018)

I'll throw my experience with Nextie into the ring, if anyone was on the fence about buying rims from them

I purchased a set of 30mm (23.5mm internal) 29er rims during the holidays of 2016. 30 days from ordering they arrived at my doorstep. (FedEx shipping). I had my shop build them up with a set of Stans Neo hubs. Came in at 1,793g. Thousands of miles later, they're still running smoothly and true. Can't say the same about my neo hubs... 

Next set I ordered was in December of 2017, they arrived at my doorstep 21 days after. I purchased the all new Ultralight 30mm Asym rim. (310g per rim!!). The goal was to build up a lightweight race wheelset for my new cross country bike. Finish was top notch, they made a beautiful set of rims. I laced them up last night, and should be finishing up the build tonight. 1,436g for the wheelset. 

I highly recommend Nextie as a company.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

nzambec2 said:


> Next set I ordered was in December of 2017, they arrived at my doorstep 21 days after. I purchased the all new Ultralight 30mm Asym rim. (310g per rim!!). The goal was to build up a lightweight race wheelset for my new cross country bike. Finish was top notch, they made a beautiful set of rims. I laced them up last night, and should be finishing up the build tonight. 1,436g for the wheelset.
> 
> I highly recommend Nextie as a company.


It sounds like you got the same rims as me, but I got them from xmcarbonspeed.

I have always wondered if these rims came out of the same factory.

Have you put the rim the tape on yet? If not, could you post a photo of the white sticker on the rim bed, if it has one. I'll do the same when I get home. Mine has an arrow to drive side etc. I'm intrigued to see if you got the same sticker, which would indicate the suppliers are selling the same product as each other.


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## nzambec2 (Jan 2, 2018)

sclyde2 said:


> It sounds like you got the same rims as me, but I got them from xmcarbonspeed.
> 
> I have always wondered if these rims came out of the same factory.
> 
> Have you put the rim the tape on yet? If not, could you post a photo of the white sticker on the rim bed, if it has one. I'll do the same when I get home. Mine has an arrow to drive side etc. I'm intrigued to see if you got the same sticker, which would indicate the suppliers are selling the same product as each other.


I just built and taped up my front wheel, and didn't have enough time to do the rear. I'll post a photo later tonight.

For my first ever wheel build (I had guidance from a great wheel builder, but he made me do all the work...) It turned out great. Good tension and true all the way around. I was worried that I estimated the ERD/spoke length, but i was spot on. For reference, Nextie estimated 595.5mm ERD, and I measured 599mm ERD. Measure before you buy spokes!! Hope pro 4 boost hubs, DT Swiss Comp Race spokes, and aluminum nipples, 28h. 670g!!


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

nzambec2 said:


> I just built and taped up my front wheel, and didn't have enough time to do the rear. I'll post a photo later tonight.
> 
> For my first ever wheel build (I had guidance from a great wheel builder, but he made me do all the work...) It turned out great. Good tension and true all the way around. I was worried that I estimated the ERD/spoke length, but i was spot on. For reference, Nextie estimated 595.5mm ERD, and I measured 599mm ERD. Measure before you buy spokes!! Hope pro 4 boost hubs, DT Swiss Comp Race spokes, and aluminum nipples, 28h. 670g!!


I had another look at the stickers on my rims. They are more generic than I thought, just stating the spoke count and the arrow to drive side. However next to the sticker is a code and number (in the rim under a layer of clear resin).. The number is unique in each rim, so I assume it is the serial number. The code is the same on each rim, so might be the manufacturer's model number. It is KSM29H22C30. Does your rim have that code on it?

I was advised it has an erd of 594. I plan to reuse some spokes off my current wheelset (with erd of 593), and same hubs too. hopefully they aren't too short or I'll have buy some new spokes. My old wheelset, with 360g rims, Chinese spokes (cx-ray copies), 240s hubs and brass nipples, came in just under 1400g. With the new rims, but otherwise the same wheelset, it should go under 1300g.


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## nzambec2 (Jan 2, 2018)

sclyde2 said:


> I had another look at the stickers on my rims. They are more generic than I thought, just stating the spoke count and the arrow to drive side. However next to the sticker is a code and number (in the rim under a layer of clear resin).. The number is unique in each rim, so I assume it is the serial number. The code is the same on each rim, so might be the manufacturer's model number. It is KSM29H22C30. Does your rim have that code on it?


MY rim also has one label with a bar code, and the part number: NXT29UL30-136 
I'm guessing that the "136" is how many rims they have made for tha part number.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I received my NXT29UL30 rims, and they look flawless. Claimed weight was 310g, and mine came in at 308 and 312. Measured the ERD at 598mm with Sapim polyax nipples.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

nzambec2 said:


> MY rim also has one label with a bar code, and the part number: NXT29UL30-136
> I'm guessing that the "136" is how many rims they have made for tha part number.
> View attachment 1179903


We'll there goes that theory. Thanks for the photo. Mine has no sticker like that. Might be from a different manufacturer.

Interesting that a you and another are getting erd measurements that high. I checked the online specs on both rims, and they both state a rim height of 22mm. We'll see when i attempt to build one up with my old spokes.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

As far as the ERD goes, I've found that most generic carbon rims are measured from the nipple seat, not from the top of the head of the nipple. So you may have to add 4mm or 5mm to the published ERD.

For the past couple of orders, I just ask Peter (XMCarbonSpeed.cn) to get the measurements on the actual rims that he is shipping out to me. That way I can plug it in the spoke calculator and get the spokes at the same time as the rims. He has CX-Ray spokes for well under $2.50 per spoke so it just makes sense to have them shipped at the same time.


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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

nzambec2 said:


> I'll throw my experience with Nextie into the ring, if anyone was on the fence about buying rims from them
> 
> I purchased a set of 30mm (23.5mm internal) 29er rims during the holidays of 2016. 30 days from ordering they arrived at my doorstep. (FedEx shipping). I had my shop build them up with a set of Stans Neo hubs. Came in at 1,793g. Thousands of miles later, they're still running smoothly and true. Can't say the same about my neo hubs...
> 
> ...


Nice, I've been waiting 34 days now, I wonder how it's going; I just checked and they have arrived in the UK, still a long way to Central Finland, but it's progressing; they might arrive next week  I will post updates, finally my carbon build will be complete c:


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

While price point and weight are important, ride quality does not seem to be discussed much on this thread. After the initial hype phase of carbon MTB wheels died down, people started asking, "are these things too stiff?" Last year, there were a number of article and interviews on various site discussing wheel stiffness, de-tensioning for compliance and carbons rims designed to have more compliance.

I'm looking for a set of light weight wheels to upgrade the cheap alloy ones that came on my new Epic Carbon Comp. Although I can't afford them at this time, in the past I've been really happy with both the Roval Traverse and Controls in both SL Carbon and alloy rims. The Rovals have only 24F and 28 rear spokes with unusually lacing. I believe this makes a slightly more compliant wheel which is great for a short travel XC race bike with a lightweight rider. Do you agree or am I imagining this?

in 2012, i picked up two sets of the original Light Bike 30mm inner diameter (~420g) rims and both sets are still going strong but are super stiff. On my 160mm bike I love the stiffness and use the suspension travel and low tire pressure to dial in the ride. The other set is on my Chinese hardtail (sometimes rigid) bike. Again, the 30mm inner diameter allows for low tire pressures and a somewhat compliant ride.

On the 22mm inner diameter Rovals, I find that the useable range of tire pressures is much higher and thus I am more reliant on some compliance in wheels. Does this match y'all's experience?

Anyway, thinking of building wheels around these: NXT29UL30 which are 25mm inner diameter. Should I be looking at a lower spoke count to create more tunability in the compliance of the wheel?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

GlazedHam said:


> While price point and weight are important, ride quality does not seem to be discussed much on this thread. After the initial hype phase of carbon MTB wheels died down, people started asking, "are these things too stiff?" Last year, there were a number of article and interviews on various site discussing wheel stiffness, de-tensioning for compliance and carbons rims designed to have more compliance.


Yeah, I think some of the "vertical compliance" thing is BS. I want the carbon wheels to be stiff. I've noticed one if the biggest benefits is I can push them hard in turns against banks and features and they stay on line. That never happened with my aluminum wheels, they'd flex all over the place in the same situation and you simply wouldn't feel like you were on "rails" and able to carry as much speed through the turn. This has to be somewhat related to the wheel maintaining it's "wheel" shape during these high-g loading situations, given gyroscopic force and everything else.

Apart from that, I want them to be light and to transfer energy well, such as acceleration (for racing). They do this.

The one "review" that was done on the wheels board between a bunch of carbon rims was completely subjective without any scientific controls/measurements. While I appreciate the effort, it wasn't really helpful and didn't really mean anything.

Tires, suspension, arms and legs, that's what I use to maintain vertical compliance.

I think part of the perception problem here is that Nextie, LB, Carbonfan, Carbonspeed are "cheap" rims. They are not, they are all more expensive than aluminum rims. They aren't as expensive as $3000 wheelsets by the likes of Envy, but these rims are coming from places that specialize in carbon fiber manufacturing and have been doing so for years for many of the big bicycle frames. I have 4 sets between Nextie and LB (and a carbonspeed frame) and they are excellent. Would I plunk down money on some no-name cheap carbon fiber rims if they were way cheaper? No. I'd spend my money with a company that has some kind of reputation to uphold.

I wish my rim flopped around more said no one ever. When we had aluminum rims, we just had to deal with it. True, it might be a little more harsh overall on a rigid hardtail with thin grips, but it'll also absorb certain frequencies of vibrations too (why they like it in road).


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Agree. On a road bike, rigid and even a hard tail a more supple wheel can be nice if that is what’s desired. I don’t understand how a wheel can be too stiff on a FS bike unless you’re very light. If my Switchblade/Fox 36/carbon wheels could be even stiffer, that would be great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

I recieved my EIE wheels. Internal size 34mm, Hope4 hubs and DT swiss spokes. 768 USD incl shipping. They looked very good as far as I can see. Got them exactly four weeks from payment. I have no experience with carbon rims, but I can see seams on the bead. I have no idea if this is normal, no seams are visible on the side walls.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

its interesting the whole stiff wheel thing. at my velocity, i tend to like a stiffer wheel and let the tyre and suspension move. i find it feels more accurate. i'm old and slow. in saying that there are still some pro DHers who seem to prefer soft spoking to allow rims and tyres to conform more....of course thats right at the other end of the scale where wheels may be re built every run or so, but still, its interesting.... theres more on this thread. http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/world-cup-dh-mechanics-claims-re-spoke-tension-1048664.html

in my experience, older style enve rims are stiffest (in building and riding) derby next, then nextie that are in comparison, relatively compliant ime. i have a few sets of each on the go. in saying that, they are at the limit of what i feel i can detect. interestingly, the latest enves seem to have been designed for more compliance, too.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

H-akka said:


> I recieved my EIE wheels. Internal size 34mm, Hope4 hubs and DT swiss spokes. 768 USD incl shipping. They looked very good as far as I can see. Got them exactly four weeks from payment. I have no experience with carbon rims, but I can see seams on the bead. I have no idea if this is normal, no seams are visible on the side walls.


My understanding is that this kind of "seam" pictured is because of mold where carbon is lay'd down and put into compression and oven for curing.

All my CarbonBicycle rims have similar seam, absolutely no issues whatsoever.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

mhelander said:


> My understanding is that this kind of "seam" pictured is because of mold where carbon is lay'd down and put into compression and oven for curing.
> 
> All my CarbonBicycle rims have similar seam, absolutely no issues whatsoever.


Thanks! They seem very well built and they came extremely well packed. Will give more info once I have weighed, fitted and ridden them.


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## nzambec2 (Jan 2, 2018)

Ultralight 30mm Nexties laced with DT Swiss competition race spokes and Hope Pro 4 hubs. ended up at 1,436g for the wheelset, and $850 USD built.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

AS738C rims from XMCarbonSpeed.com, 38mm outer, 32mm inner, 28h, 820 grams for the pair, measured ERD 552mm to top of nipple head 
DT Swiss 350 Centerlock Boost hubs, 28h, rear is running the 54t ratchet
Sapim CX-Ray spokes also from XMCarbonSpeed
Sapim double hex self locking alloy nipples
Decals from Slik Graphics


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

Nzembic2, you built those? Very nice btw.


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## nzambec2 (Jan 2, 2018)

GlazedHam said:


> Nzembic2, you built those? Very nice btw.


Yes I did. My friend helped out with guidance and a truing stand. Lacing was easy, most difficult part of building was getting the radial (up/down) hop out of the wheels. I haven't ridden them outside yet, snowy and blistering cold here in Michigan.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

nzambec2 said:


> View attachment 1180739
> 
> 
> Ultralight 30mm Nexties laced with DT Swiss competition race spokes and Hope Pro 4 hubs. ended up at 1,436g for the wheelset, and $850 USD built.


MY back just went out looking at that pic.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Very happy with the builds on my Carbonfan 35mm (Outer width) 29er boost wheels using Bitex front hubs and Project 321 rear hubs. Here are a few pics of the wife's set (28/28). 1488g for the set without tape or valves.


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## nzambec2 (Jan 2, 2018)

big_slacker said:


> MY back just went out looking at that pic.


I'm 6'3", inseam of about 35", and the frame is XL. I'm not in an overly aggressive position, but the bike setup makes it look that way!


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Got to do a solid test ride on these guys. (35mm asym carbonfan, dt 350, pillar spokes)

Things I noticed:
1.much louder hub with the 54t. (though I cant hear it over my buddies i9)
2.The engagement of the rear hub was fantastic trying to ratchet over some obstacles. 
3. The front lifts up and just feels lighter.
4. not overly stiff. 
5. look great.


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## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

Hi All,

Just received a wheelset from Nextie. I had a question regarding spokes. Several of them have a slight bend when approaching the nipple. Is this ok? They are DT swiss comp spokes.









Also the rim bed towards the bead have some imperfections on it. Should I worry about this?


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## hellion (Jan 17, 2018)

I finally made up my mind and ordered a set of Nextie 34mm outer, 28mm inner rims, with a claimed weight of 350g. I'll inspect them closely and report back here when they arrive.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Quick review of IUBike:
I took a chance and ordered from there, as it's cheap and the specs looked like what I wanted. The contact with the vendor was great, they're nice and responsive overall, and answered all my questions too.

I paid 610USD shipped for DT 350 hubs, asymmetric wheels (28/28 pillar 1420 spokes) (this: https://www.iubike.com/iubike-dt-swiss-350-hub-asymmetric-carbon-wheelset and this is the rim: https://www.iubike.com/media/catalo...-cross-country-ultra-light-carbon-mtb-rim.png). Note that I believe the price/spec have changed a tad since I got it.

Anyway, the rim is: _22mm inner, 27mm outer, 280gr per, 2.6mm offset.
_

I got the wheels for a while now so I though it's time for this post!

- We changed a couple of things after I ordered (no decals, different spoke holes - because they couldn't do internally drilled holes at this time). I didn't mind, though you might.

- The wheels took a reasonable time to be built/sent (about 10 days to build and 7 to ship)

- Wheels build was alright, the tension was fairly even and the size/ERD was correct

- Total measured weight was 600gr (front wheel) and 750gr (rear wheel) ie 1350gr which is fairly good (and lower than currently announced on the page even)

- The lamination of the external carbon layer inside the rim bed isn't perfect, though in practice this caused no problems. I don't know enough about the build process to know if its just cosmetics or not.

Riding the wheels, they were as i expected. Right amount of stiffness where needed (being 160ish lbs helps though since its generally averageish for most.. I'm pretty sure they'd adjust tension on demand though). There has been zero issue so far with them, tubeless mounted just fine, no cracks, etc.

See attached pics as well. All in all, great wheels for the price, and the service was also great, would recommend.


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## Erik in sac (May 2, 2011)

mobilenemo said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just received a wheelset from Nextie. I had a question regarding spokes. Several of them have a slight bend when approaching the nipple. Is this ok? They are DT swiss comp spokes.
> 
> View attachment 1181734


That looks like the nipple is sitting in the hole too perpendicular to the rim and not able to angle towards the spoke hole on the hub correctly. Like in this image: https://www.sapim.be/sites/default/files/polyax.png

Maybe it just didnt seat in the rim hole correctly or the nipple is messed up. Just keep an eye on the tension for that one maybe after riding it'll fix itself but if it moves, that could change its tension


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

boubla- Nice price and weight! Congrats! And thanks for the lead.


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## Karlewski (Dec 3, 2016)

So happy to find this thread! I’ve been a Nextie rim user for 18 months and now have 3 wheel sets. 42mm inner Crocodiles on a plus bike/Pony Rustler, 29mm inner Premiums for my Intense Primer, and both of these wheel sets, with Cx-ray spokes, have taken solid enduro beatings and had rare rim bottom outs with no damage. I love’em. More recently I have added Huck Norris rim protectors in my rear wheels for added insurance while running low PSI’s. 20 PSI on 2.6” tires and 12PSI in my 3” tires. I’m 165 pounds all up rider weight and I ride pretty, “light,” smooth/clean in rough rocky Colorado conditions.
I just got Nextie’s new UL’s with 28mm inners and they look awesome/flawless but, at 350gm per rim I feel like I’m on egg shells! I have installed the new Huck Norris DH rim protector in back. After one long ride at Buff Creek, moderate trails, small drops and big hops, all is good but, how hard can I push these? Anyone been pounding on these for awhile? XC only? I’m afraid to take these on deep back county rides. Any failure stories out there?


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## liv2_mountain_bike (Nov 7, 2011)

I have the 29/35mm 27.5 Nextie rims on Hope hubs, usually running 25 to 27 psi. These were the 400g DH layup though. I don't baby them at all. I beat the snot out of them on purpose. I smash into rocks, land flat from 4 foot drops, etc. I've been trying to test their limits because I got the rim set for a little over $200, which was the same as my Stans set. I run these on a Yeti SB5c on all kinds of trails (Downieville, Mr. Toads in Tahoe, McKenzie River in Oregon, San Luis Obispo, etc.), I ride rocks. I love technical rocks. I'm not a XC guy. I'm a downhill guy. These rims are amazing. They are all scratched and chipped up, but have been stellar. I will buy from them again. (oh, and I do 40 mile backcountry rides a lot).


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

hellion said:


> I finally made up my mind and ordered a set of Nextie 34mm outer, 28mm inner rims, with a claimed weight of 350g. I'll inspect them closely and report back here when they arrive.


Is this rim in T800 from XMcarbonspeed same as the one you ordered from Nextie ? 
29er 34mm wide mtb 29 carbon rim clincher
How much did you spend on them ?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Erik in sac said:


> That looks like the nipple is sitting in the hole too perpendicular to the rim and not able to angle towards the spoke hole on the hub correctly. Like in this image: https://www.sapim.be/sites/default/files/polyax.png
> 
> Maybe it just didnt seat in the rim hole correctly or the nipple is messed up. Just keep an eye on the tension for that one maybe after riding it'll fix itself but if it moves, that could change its tension


I've built two sets of Nexties. The first was with standard DT brass nipples and standard flange hubs and the other with DT Sqourx nipples and straight pull hubs. The brass nipples don't angle themselves in the hole as well as the Sqourx do. It seems the brass are a little fatter than the Sqourx and aren't able to rotate coming through the hole. Something else I noticed is that the second set I laced onto straight pull hubs and the straight pull hubs basically line the spokes up for you so there is no angle on the nipple coming out of the rim. One of the only gripes I might have about the Nextie hoops is that there is no right to left offset of the spoke holes and also the holes are not drilled with any angle to them.


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## Karlewski (Dec 3, 2016)

allenc said:


> Is this rim in T800 from XMcarbonspeed same as the one you ordered from Nextie ?
> 29er 34mm wide mtb 29 carbon rim clincher
> How much did you spend on them ?


Can't be the same rim, the Nextie rims are described as a 70/30 mix T700/T1000
It's all here, Ultralight Mountain Carbon Fiber MTB Rims Clincher Cross Country Trail
Honestly, the stiffness of the T1000 worries me, more stiff=less flex, just break!? I'm likely over thinking this all but I'd hate to kill a new wheel. I think I'd kill the rear, I can keep the front up for most big hits, then we'll know, one way or the other, what the ultra-lights can take. I decided to buy them when I saw the weight limit of 120kg/265lbs, and a 3 year warranty. I was 162lbs this morning.

Sounds like you'd LOVE the desert action Live to mtb... mega rock, I was particularly impressed with St. George. Crazy steep technical boulder climbs, rock bridges, ie Zen trail, ... super fun but left me needing a bash guard for my Intense Primer, 130mm front and rear. What do you ride? I ran my Nextie Primiums for that stuff, slamming hard, no issues but, one lone very loose spoke. Rim was still true, I think the nipple just loosened.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I've run my 28mm ID Chinese carbon front wheel in Moab and St. George several times. No problems; no chips, a few scratches, still perfectly true. 

Great for XC trails like Zen, the Mag 7 area, Hymasa/Ahab, etc.


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## Karlewski (Dec 3, 2016)

Le Duke, what weight? Manufacturer? Front wheel only?
Maybe I just need to joint the Girl Scouts but, the Zen trail felt a bit more on the technical side of the spectrum vs XC to me, bottoming out on the chain ring and all...

Ncambec2 Have you got out on your UL Nexties yet? 
PS that is one awesome looking bike you got there!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Karlewski said:


> Le Duke, what weight? Manufacturer? Front wheel only?
> Maybe I just need to joint the Girl Scouts but, the Zen trail felt a bit more on the technical side of the spectrum vs XC to me, bottoming out on the chain ring and all...
> 
> Ncambec2 Have you got out on your UL Nexties yet?
> PS that is one awesome looking bike you got there!


It's moderately technical, sure, but it's part of an endurance XC race, and isn't particularly steep at any point. I guess it's a matter of what you're used to, bike set up, etc. I'm used to rocks, roots and trails that are a lot steeper than Zen, so I found it pretty fun on my 120/100mm 29er FS.

The rim was just over 400g, IIRC. Light layup of the L-B AM928.


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## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

Rngspnr said:


> I've built two sets of Nexties. The first was with standard DT brass nipples and standard flange hubs and the other with DT Sqourx nipples and straight pull hubs. The brass nipples don't angle themselves in the hole as well as the Sqourx do. It seems the brass are a little fatter than the Sqourx and aren't able to rotate coming through the hole. Something else I noticed is that the second set I laced onto straight pull hubs and the straight pull hubs basically line the spokes up for you so there is no angle on the nipple coming out of the rim. One of the only gripes I might have about the Nextie hoops is that there is no right to left offset of the spoke holes and also the holes are not drilled with any angle to them.


Thanks for your experience. I noticed that my 5year old wheel set giant ptr1 (rebadged DT Swiss wheels) with straight pull hubs have no bends in the spokes.

I guess I'll just ride the nextie wheel set and hope there's no issues with the spokes down the line

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## carrier (Jan 1, 2018)

So I ordered my Carbonfan wheels on Christmas day (2017), and they showed up about a month later - 6 days from the time I got the shipping notification. The wheels ended up being 500 and 501g (29+, 50mm external, 43 internal). Carbonfan was great to deal with. They answered questions quickly and let me change my decal color at the last minute (to black which wasn't listed as an option). When I originally was looking, I wanted something with an offset spoke pattern to get the spoke angles closer to equal, and they changed the website to add that option after I asked about it. When I finally got the rims in hand, they looked fantastic. The black decals are hard to see, but will look great as my bike is pretty stealthy.

I measured ERD and found it to be 591.5 vs the 595 listed on the website - definitely a difference maker when ordering spokes. I ordered Sapim laser spokes and brass nipples to build them with from Dan's comp (thanks for the tip eb1888!). I have heard that building wheels with the thinner spokes like that is a pain because of windup, but I didn't think it was that bad to deal with. I just had a little piece of tape I would move from one spoke to the next as I tightened them to see how much it would twist before actually tightening.

These were built with Onyx hubs (which I know are on the heavier side). When they were finished, I weighed them to see what they would be compared to my stock wheels (for 2018 Trek Stache). This included rims, spokes, hubs, rotors, cassette, and tape. The total weight difference for new wheels ended up 1.23lbs less than the stock.

I haven't been able to ride them because it has been so cold, but I will report back when I do. In the meantime I have been trying to think of ways to satisfy my cravings in using them, so I made this video to show how much better they spin compared to the stock ones. Not scientific, but pretty impressive!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Very nice finished build with the decal choice. If you film in landscape it works better on YT.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

mobilenemo said:


> Thanks for your experience. I noticed that my 5year old wheel set giant ptr1 (rebadged DT Swiss wheels) with straight pull hubs have no bends in the spokes.
> 
> I guess I'll just ride the nextie wheel set and hope there's no issues with the spokes down the line
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have a set of DT Swiss XM521's 27.5 laced to Hope pro 4's. The spokes come out of the nipples at an angle on those also. Just in case anybody wants to know my Nextie AM35 29 HD rims laced to DT 350 28 hole straight pull non boost hubs with DT Comp spokes and DT Sqourx aluminum nipples weighs in at 1788.4 grams total. Noticeably stiff wheels a lot less deflection in rough rocky situations bike now goes exactly where I point it. Another thing about carbon wheels is you may have to adjust your suspension a bit. I needed to slow my rebound 1 click due to less flex in wheels.


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## carrier (Jan 1, 2018)

eb1888 said:


> Very nice finished build with the decal choice. If you film in landscape it works better on YT.


Hey thanks! And yeah, when I looked back at it after it was uploaded I was annoyed that I forgot to go landscape. At least it still gets the message across...


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

Karlewski said:


> Can't be the same rim, the Nextie rims are described as a 70/30 mix T700/T1000
> It's all here, Ultralight Mountain Carbon Fiber MTB Rims Clincher Cross Country Trail
> Honestly, the stiffness of the T1000 worries me, more stiff=less flex, just break!? I'm likely over thinking this all but I'd hate to kill a new wheel. I think I'd kill the rear, I can keep the front up for most big hits, then we'll know, one way or the other, what the ultra-lights can take. I decided to buy them when I saw the weight limit of 120kg/265lbs, and a 3 year warranty. I was 162lbs this morning.
> 
> Sounds like you'd LOVE the desert action Live to mtb... mega rock, I was particularly impressed with St. George. Crazy steep technical boulder climbs, rock bridges, ie Zen trail, ... super fun but left me needing a bash guard for my Intense Primer, 130mm front and rear. What do you ride? I ran my Nextie Primiums for that stuff, slamming hard, no issues but, one lone very loose spoke. Rim was still true, I think the nipple just loosened.


I believe they are same rims from same manufacturer, same cross section datas, I think XMcarbonspeed and Nextie just declare a little bit different on their product description. As most of us know, T1000 is almost impossible to be used on Chinese bike factories' products, don't know why Nextie still declares T1000 on their same rims from same factory. And I believe Nextie just has the manufacturer to apply label with something like NXT...
You can tell if you check more prodcts listing between Nextie and XMcarbonspeed:
29er 27mm Wide T700/800 Full Carbon MTB Rim Clincher
T700/800 Asymetric mtb carbon rim

And Nextie Crocodile rims from XMcarbonspeed:
[Crocodile] Carbon Semi-Fat 27.5+ Rim 42mm Wall Hookless Tubeless Compatible
HR942C design 29er carbon hookless rim 42mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
RM950C 29+ mtb carbon clincher rim tubeless ready 50mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## Karlewski (Dec 3, 2016)

allenc said:


> I believe they are same rims from same manufacturer, same cross section datas, I think XMcarbonspeed and Nextie just declare a little bit different on their product description. As most of us know, T1000 is almost impossible to be used on Chinese bike factories' products, don't know why Nextie still declares T1000 on their same rims from same factory. [/url]


 You're right. The only twist I'd put out there as a possibility . . . 
They may be sharing molds and doing different layup processes??? The carbon speed brand is offering T700 and T800, 2 different lay-ups. Possibly, Nextie is using the same mold, maybe same factory, with the T700/T1000, different lay up design. Or maybe it is just hype? No way to know? The rim weights do vary though.
In another life as a "remote controlled foam combat wing glider distributor" I worked directly with a Chinese manufacturer and machining the molds was the big dollar expense, the rest was pennies . . .sharing molds does make lots of sense and could/would be a cool way to spur innovation in the layup design process while controlling costs. Wishful thinking anyway . . .
Thanks for opening my eyes to that.
I just wish winter would end so I could do some real product testing! Snow is just so soft and slippery for any real pounding. Running my Crocodiles i42mm with 3" APEX NN's in oatmeal snow till then. SO HEAVY, GREAT TRAINING.


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## savechief (Jun 8, 2004)

It's possible that the topic has been discussed in the course of 86 pages, but I don't feel like reading all 86 pages, so...

Are there any opinions about which of the typical suppliers of carbon rims (Light Bicycle, Nextie, Carbonfan, XMcarbon, Farsports, BTLOS, etc.) is the most competent at actually building complete wheelsets?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

savechief said:


> It's possible that the topic has been discussed in the course of 86 pages, but I don't feel like reading all 86 pages, so...
> 
> Are there any opinions about which of the typical suppliers of carbon rims (Light Bicycle, Nextie, Carbonfan, XMcarbon, Farsports, BTLOS, etc.) is the most competent at actually building complete wheelsets?


I'd say Nextie and LB are the most reputable and offer the most legitimate options for this (normal spokes/nipples/hubs you'd expect to find on any high end wheelset, vs. no-name versions). Personally, I might buy rims from XMcarbonspeed or Carbonfan, but I probably wouldn't buy wheels from them. This may be irrational, but again, Nextie and LB seem to have the biggest presence.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

savechief said:


> It's possible that the topic has been discussed in the course of 86 pages, but I don't feel like reading all 86 pages, so...
> 
> Are there any opinions about which of the typical suppliers of carbon rims (Light Bicycle, Nextie, Carbonfan, XMcarbon, Farsports, BTLOS, etc.) is the most competent at actually building complete wheelsets?


Nextie and Light bike to do offer more hub choices so that may play a part in your decision. I've only ordered one wheelset (also 3 other sets of rims, 1 frame, and some small parts) from XMCarbon and it's been great through one season of use. If I was sticking with DT hubs, I would go with XMCarbon. Otherwise, Nextie would be at the top of the list.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

savechief said:


> Are there any opinions about which of the typical suppliers of carbon rims (Light Bicycle, Nextie, Carbonfan, XMcarbon, Farsports, BTLOS, etc.) is the most competent at actually building complete wheelsets?


You can do the final tensioning yourself, regardless of who built the wheel. Unless they got something very wrong (like wrong spoke length) it is pretty straight forward to tension a brand new wheel.Even LBS will not charge much for tensioning a new wheel. Occasionally when I don't feel like it I will take wheels to a great LBS with top wheel guys to do it.


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## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Hi all,

Im just waiting on a set of Light bike RM29C14 rims ,which is there 38mm wide rim.

I think these have been out a while. Has anyone got a set of these built on some pro 4 hubs and can tell me what spoke lengths i need please? I would go off the ERD on their site but after having previous nextie rims ive found the ERD is often wrong.

Ive not recieved them yet but id like to get the spokes ordered for when they arrive.

Many thanks


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## Erik in sac (May 2, 2011)

after reading this thread I puled the trigger on a set of EIE Carbon i29 asymmetric wheels early Feb. My buddy ordered a set at the same time and we got a pretty nice discount from Pretty. I dont see any flaws at all. Perfectly true, spokes look awesome. For the smokin deal I got on these, cant beat it. Waiting on sealant and tape so I can mount up my new Rekon 2.6's (which I also like so far).

Anyway, here are some initial photos. Happy with how they turned out. 
Rims: A29C29D25 all mountain layup
Hubs: DT240s classic IS 32H
Spokes: Pilar 1420 aero xtra
Nipples: DT blue

seperately I added custom hub decals and the 54T star ratchet Total weight is 1492g (w/o tape, stems).


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## JChrichton4 (May 23, 2015)

I built a pair of light bike rims in the past. As I recall the ERD was correct with the caveat that the website does not compensate for the head of the spoke nipple. I added 4mm and had no problems. Hope that helps


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## kieljon (Sep 7, 2015)

Erik in sac said:


> after reading this thread I puled the trigger on a set of EIE Carbon i29 asymmetric wheels early Feb. My buddy ordered a set at the same time and we got a pretty nice discount from Pretty. I dont see any flaws at all. Perfectly true, spokes look awesome. For the smokin deal I got on these, cant beat it. Waiting on sealant and tape so I can mount up my new Rekon 2.6's (which I also like so far).
> 
> Anyway, here are some initial photos. Happy with how they turned out.
> Rims: A29C29D25 all mountain layup
> ...


Those looks great! What was the total cost for everything?


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

29plus wheel build here on "exotic" components:
* Newmen straightpull boost mtb hubs (28 spokes, ratchet type as DT/Syntace, 36T by default, abit lighter than DT240, bearing preload can (need!) be adjusted) 
* Velosa assymetric 45mm external 29er rims (mas04), actual weight 455g + 465g (460+-15g advertized). There is actually limited choice of AM rated 28s assymetric 39ID rims out there, plus Velosa is cheaper, so decided to try it as I suspect all chinese wheels are made on the same factory(ies) independently on how they are branded.
* DT squorox brass nipples (for winter/salt)
* DT Aerocomp bladed spokes (basically for easier build on straightpull hub as bladed spokes can be hold in place easily with a special tool and prevent rotation)
* total wheelset weight ended at ~1650g

Bought rims on Ebay, asked for ERD via mail from seller and ordered spokes without re-checking - everything went well. Nicely all spokes ended up with the same 300mm length, front/back/left/right. Trueing was easy, building was no-brainer either... Tubeless went very easy too. Forgot to adjust rear hub bearing preload and noticed rear play on first ride, but after adjusting its all good now. Lighter and stiffer wheelset than stock 50mm Durocs on Stache, like them, real upgrade and cost less than going branded Trek carbon wheelset.










Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

foresterLV said:


> 29plus wheel build here on "exotic" components:
> * Newmen straightpull boost mtb hubs (28 spokes, ratchet type as DT/Syntace, 36T by default, abit lighter than DT240, bearing preload can (need!) be adjusted)
> * Velosa assymetric 45mm external 29er rims (mas04), actual weight 455g + 465g (460+-15g advertized). There is actually limited choice of AM rated 28s assymetric 39ID rims out there, plus Velosa is cheaper, so decided to try it as I suspect all chinese wheels are made on the same factory(ies) independently on how they are branded.
> * DT squorox brass nipples (for winter/salt)
> ...


Very well done! This is exactly what I'd like to get built up for my Stache 9. I've been looking at LB 50mm rims, but I'd prefer to go a tad more narrow. Problem is most of the narrower rims are not any lighter than the LB 50's. I'd L-O-V-E to have >1700gm wheel set. Do you mind sharing what your all-in cost was on your setup?

THanks
CJB


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

CBaron said:


> Very well done! This is exactly what I'd like to get built up for my Stache 9. I've been looking at LB 50mm rims, but I'd prefer to go a tad more narrow. Problem is most of the narrower rims are not any lighter than the LB 50's. I'd L-O-V-E to have >1700gm wheel set. Do you mind sharing what your all-in cost was on your setup?
> 
> THanks
> CJB


it was ~750eur not counting tools (tools were like 15+15+100 including stand), no discounts used, regular online shops bike24 (spokes/nipples/tools) and r2-bike (hubs). 
the rims itself were 235 with shipping, hubs ~400, spokes and nipples 120. few hundreds could be easily saved on hubs/spokes with minimal weight penalty, but still its cheaper than any branded carbon wheelsets that start from like 1100 here, so I was OK getting more expensive hubs and straighpull spokes for a "fun factor" (well and easier lacing for unexperienced me).

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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

ha, I only noticed right now that Newmen rear hub is 200g whike DT 350 is ~300 and DT 240 ~270. was thinking its like 20g difference buts its much more. so thats the place where I cheated on the plus wheelset weight.

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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

My nextie rear wheel broke after the second ride 

Awwww.... 

It was not the rim itself but the hub, I had developed an odd creak so I decided to take out the casette and who figures, the freehub mechanism was broken already, I don't know what's this hub made of but it's not made out of anything resistant.

You can hear it here creaking, yes it was the hub 




Awww............................. I am so saaaaaaaaaaad...........

I give up bikes.


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Feli said:


> My nextie rear wheel broke after the second ride
> 
> Awwww....
> 
> ...


is it DT hub? take it apart (it can be pulled out without tools) and check ratchet rings. maybe something wrong with that 56T, should be easy to replace. rings are not very expensive and Nextie most probably will send replacement under warranty.

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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

Well, it is the fact that it's a aluminum freehub body with an steel casette (XT), the creak was in fact unrelated as after I did reassemble it (regardless it was broken) it still works and there's no creak, it had just loosen up (new bike so that happens), as I guessed it was just needing a bit of grease and more torque.

It is hard to see in the pictures, I thought it was doomed; it actually looks quite bad, in some parts almost the entire thing is gone broke.



http://imgur.com/Eqkck


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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

foresterLV said:


> is it DT hub? take it apart (it can be pulled out without tools) and check ratchet rings. maybe something wrong with that 56T, should be easy to replace. rings are not very expensive and Nextie most probably will send replacement under warranty.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


Well, it is the fact that it's a aluminum freehub body with an steel casette (XT), the creak was in fact unrelated as after I did reassemble it (regardless it was broken) it still works and there's no creak, it had just loosen up (new bike so that happens), as I guessed it was just needing a bit of grease and more torque.

It is hard to see in the pictures, I thought it was doomed; it actually looks quite bad, in some parts almost the entire thing is gone broke.



http://imgur.com/Eqkck


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Feli said:


> Well, it is the fact that it's a aluminum freehub body with an steel casette (XT), the creak was in fact unrelated as after I did reassemble it (regardless it was broken) it still works and there's no creak, it had just loosen up (new bike so that happens), as I guessed it was just needing a bit of grease and more torque.
> 
> It is hard to see in the pictures, I thought it was doomed; it actually looks quite bad, in some parts almost the entire thing is gone broke.
> 
> ...


so it turned out good? 
that lockring on casette need to be torqued to 30-50NM (actual number is printed on lockring) which is alot of pressure using medium sized wrench. after that it should not get loose.

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## Feli (Nov 24, 2017)

It was torqued really good, the loose thing was the hub body itself, mostly because DT expects really good frame pressure and I wasn't generous there as I saw no frame specifications, regardless I just wanted to regrease and recheck every single part and I didn't expect it to be broken, you know, normal debugging procedure, but I just learned that those freehubs bodies are so delicate, I only have had steel ones, which are intact, explains why I was so freaked out and I just hope it doesn't break mid ride.

Yeah I can't blame nextie for this one the carbon parts have worked flawesly so far but now I realize why everyone picks an XD freehub body; now that I think about it, in that design, that shouldn't ever happen.

But it is still scary how weak that can be, I guess that at this point the casette and the hub have seized together, I'd give it a life expectancy of 1 year at most, once the casette dies so does the freehub; and then I'd just get the XD driver and sram casette, by the looks of it, that shouldn't happen with sram.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

My EIE assymetric i34 AM wheels are now mounted. The pair weighs 1782 g. Had some trouble making them tubeless as the tape I had was for skinnier rims. The only slight flaw was the colour. I ordered a clearer red pantone colour, but it turned out brownish red. It doesn't match my pantone bridge.


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## liv2_mountain_bike (Nov 7, 2011)

Feli said:


> I realize why everyone picks an XD freehub body; now that I think about it, in that design, that shouldn't ever happen.


I still have issues with my XD drivers from time to time. I've had cassettes seize on those drivers as well. The last issue involved the rotating lock thread mechanism inside the 11 speed cassette itself broke. It was free spinning and would not engage to where I could unthread the cassette off. Hard to explain without showing if you are only used to Shimano style interfaces. There is just so much torque generated at this location and if you ride a lot, it will take a beating. I pull my cassettes off every couple months to inspect, clean, and regrease everything, so it wasn't due to neglect. Funny thing though, this was on a DT Swiss 370 hub. I agree it's a totally different design than the 240s or 350s (pawl, verus star ratchet) but still, have never had issues with my Hopes, Kings, or Hadleys. Go figure. All parts are replaceable/rebuidable, just really expensive and cost more than the rear wheel that came with the bike! (Yeti SB5c with DT Spline 1900M wheels - now Hope Evo/ Pro4 with Nextie 35mm).


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

What do you think about this rim profile by Carbonfan? Anyone using them yet?
https://www.carbonfan.com/t800-tube...ountain-bike-wheels-xy-series-width-27mm-30mm

To my inexperienced eye, it seems kinda like best of both worlds for XC to trail use for a light rider. Not too wide at 33.5 and shallow shoulders (sorta like Stans but not that extreme, but far form 30 mm deep) as to be less of a flip up rock target. Not too skinny at 25.5 inner as to give good tire up to 2.35 x 29 tire support. 4mm outside rim thickness (most are 3, some 2.5) for "impact resistance"?. 350g- pretty darned light for the width. Kinda weird asymmetrical rim bed/bead hump....why?

Thoughts?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

The bed is asymmetric so that the internal nipple holes align with the external nipple holes. That way you don't have the holes in the tire bed skewed to one side.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

The weight and width is pretty ideal for cross-country race rim using 2.0-2.2 tires. 4mm thick wall at bead is a little overkill for CC. Seems like you could cut weight and go larger ID by going w/ 3mm, or cut weight even more w/ smaller OD and keep ID at 25.5mm. Maybe 26mm ID and 32mm OD and get the weight to 330-340g?


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

https://www.carbonfan.com/carbonfan-asymmetric-32mm-25mm-carbon-mountain-rims-td-series
This is the closest thing to it that they offer dimensionally, however it weighs in at 380 even in XC layup (AM 420). More symmetrical bed, thinner bead walls, and heavier.

That's why the previous one caught my eye with all of its unusual features. Not that different is necessarily better- sometimes it's not and you don't get something for nothing.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

If you're building a truly XC wheelset here's the rim I'd use.

https://us.lightbicycle.com/shop/27-5-rm650b09-flyweight-27mm-carbon-rim/


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

TwoTone said:


> If you're building a truly XC wheelset here's the rim I'd use.
> 
> https://us.lightbicycle.com/shop/27-5-rm650b09-flyweight-27mm-carbon-rim/


Maybe even for a gravel grinder. XMCarbon has some with the same dimensions that would save you about $190 on a pair after you factor in shipping.

29er 27mm Wide T700/800 Full Carbon MTB Rim Clincher


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Noclutch said:


> View attachment 1184984
> 
> 
> What do you think about this rim profile by Carbonfan? Anyone using them yet?
> ...


Another option that's the same inner width (25 vs 25.5 is pretty close), a bit lighter and a bit cheaper.

T700/800 Asymetric mtb carbon rim


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks Two tone and BXCc-not looking for a race XC set at all. Currently riding some (defunct and aging, and flexy) AC race 29er wheels, but they are at least 25/28 and I’m not looking to go narrower or much heavier. I do ride a lot of rocky quarry trails and looking for a little more support laterally for my Rons and Ralph’s aired up at 20/22psi than a 22 inner would give. 
So looking for 25-26 inner to 33-35 outer AND sub 350g. 



Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Noclutch said:


> Thanks Two tone and BXCc-not looking for a race XC set at all. Currently riding some (defunct and aging, and flexy) AC race 29er wheels, but they are at least 25/28 and I'm not looking to go narrower or much heavier. I do ride a lot of rocky quarry trails and looking for a little more support laterally for my Rons and Ralph's aired up at 20/22psi than a 22 inner would give.
> So looking for 25-26 inner to 33-35 outer AND sub 350g.
> 
> Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!


The Carbonfan rims or the XMCarbon ones I linked should serve the purpose with the XM ones being a little lighter and cheaper. I have 3 sets of rims from Peter and all have been stellar. I've never purchased from CarbonFan but they seem to be a great option and people have been happy with them.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

Yea those you linked are nice and light in the t800 lay up! Only thing is the 2.5mm bead walls.....significance? 

Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Noclutch said:


> Yea those you linked are nice and light in the t800 lay up! Only thing is the 2.5mm bead walls.....significance?
> 
> Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!


Not necessarily. A friend of mine has been on these rims for 3 seasons and I used the earlier hooked bead version for 4 seasons with zero issues. They have a 2.5mm bead wall. 
27.5er 35mm wide AM carbon mtb bike rim 27.5

Here is another 350g option with a 3mm lip. But the inner width is 28mm. Depending on your tire width, it might be a better option.
29er 34mm wide mtb 29 carbon rim clincher


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

While I'm all about saving money- it's why I went light bike vs NOX, one nice thing is that Light Bike does now have a US presence, so that is something to consider as well. Makes any warranty issues a lot easier to deal with.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

TwoTone said:


> While I'm all about saving money- it's why I went light bike vs NOX, one nice thing is that Light Bike does now have a US presence, so that is something to consider as well. Makes any warranty issues a lot easier to deal with.


That's definitely a good point. I keep thinking that I will order a 3rd rim as a back up and I won't have to worry about lengthy warranty issues but I always cheap out when it comes time to pay for it. $500 or so is still a great price for some rims and I would have a spare ready to go if needed.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

TwoTone said:


> While I'm all about saving money- it's why I went light bike vs NOX, one nice thing is that Light Bike does now have a US presence, so that is something to consider as well. Makes any warranty issues a lot easier to deal with.


Yes I see that LB has both onshore and offshore "stores". I'm not about to build my own( haven't looked into true local wheel builders but I have my doubts........ Ocala Florida que the banjos:rockon: area suggested builders appreciated!!), and it seems they only build with I9 or Onyx....why no DT, dangit? Their oriental outlet offers DT. So be it for noisy hubs or expense I'd ruled the American LB store out. Not being un Arerican, just being lazy AND pro DT. LOL

But regarding the bead wall thickness, the feedback is appreciated. I've never dinged or dented my rims (right light and somewhat cautious like older ex moto types have learned to do..) so I don't know the value of "ding/dent resistance".

Again, if I can make some AC Race wheels last 4 years, honestly unless there is a major mistake on the build, whomever :skep: does my wheels should be fine*, as long as they're spec'd as desired and weight what they should. And yea, I'm kinda penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to my toys! LOL


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Noclutch said:


> Yes I see that LB has both onshore and offshore "stores". I'm not about to build my own( haven't looked into true local wheel builders but I have my doubts........ Ocala Florida area suggested builders appreciated!!), and it seems they only build with I9 or Onyx....why no DT, dangit? Their oriental outlet offers DT. So be it for noisy hubs or expense I'd ruled the American LB store out. Not being un Arerican, just being lazy AND pro DT. LOL But regarding the bead wall thickness, the feedback is appreciated. I've never dinged or dented my rims (right light and somewhat cautious like older ex moto types have learned to do..) so I don't know the value of "ding/dent resistance".
> 
> Again, if I can make some AC Race wheels last 4 years, honestly unless there is a major mistake on the build, whomever :skep: does my wheels should be fine*, as long as they're spec'd as desired and weight what they should. And yea, I'm kinda penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to my toys! LOL


Plenty of non local builders, have them source everything and have the rims sent directly to them- that's what I did.

I've used Mike at lacemine29 and Dave at Speed dream wheels.


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## racebum (Mar 13, 2013)

If you buy the complete wheel sets you definitely want to buy in the country. If you order from China you're going to be subject to import duties unless they lie about the value.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

racebum said:


> If you buy the complete wheel sets you definitely want to buy in the country. If you order from China you're going to be subject to import duties unless they lie about the value.


Nothing personal or political, but I'm not aware of any import duties as applied to the end consumer in my neck of the woods of my country. LOL

Twotone- yes I'd talked to Mike many years ago before the interwebs really took affect on marketing/offering/pricing of custom wheels, and he seemed reasonable businessman indeed. Thanks for the reminder.

Sometimes it's hard to not get caught up in the anonymity of e-commerce.


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## formu1fan (Jan 23, 2010)

H-akka said:


> My EIE assymetric i34 AM wheels are now mounted. The pair weighs 1782 g. Had some trouble making them tubeless as the tape I had was for skinnier rims. The only slight flaw was the colour. I ordered a clearer red pantone colour, but it turned out brownish red. It doesn't match my pantone bridge.
> View attachment 1184714
> View attachment 1184715


How are these? I'm looking at something similar. Did you order it from them as a wheelset or built the wheels yourself? What hubs are you using?


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

formu1fan said:


> How are these? I'm looking at something similar. Did you order it from them as a wheelset or built the wheels yourself? What hubs are you using?


I ordered them as wheelset with Hope Pro4 hubs. DT 240 hubs are much lighter so they might be worth it if you have the money. The wheels look good and seem to be built well. But we got so much snow now I'll save them for spring and use 27.5+ for now.


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## formu1fan (Jan 23, 2010)

H-akka said:


> I ordered them as wheelset with Hope Pro4 hubs. DT 240 hubs are much lighter so they might be worth it if you have the money. The wheels look good and seem to be built well. But we got so much snow now I'll save them for spring and use 27.5+ for now.


Thanks. If I buy from them I've go with Hope hubs as well.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

formu1fan said:


> Thanks. If I buy from them I've go with Hope hubs as well.


If the vendor has 240s hubs, they should be able to provide 350 hubs as well. If you go with centerlock (CL) rotors, it will save some extra weight with no extra cost to the wheels. You may need new rotors though. Once you factor in the additional $100 or so for the 54t ratchet, they are a decent balance between Hope and DT 240s. I posted this before in another thread but here it is again.


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## liv2_mountain_bike (Nov 7, 2011)

You must be listing original MSRP on these hubs. Your listed Hopes and Kings for example are over $100 more than what I paid at Jenson or even Chain Reaction recently.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

liv2_mountain_bike said:


> You must be listing original MSRP on these hubs. Your listed Hopes and Kings for example are over $100 more than what I paid at Jenson or even Chain Reaction recently.


Yes. It was the only way to keep it consistent. DT and Hopes can be found at decent discounts most of the time. Others are hit or miss.


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## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

I've owned 2 sets of LB 38/31.6 (650B) rims and really liked them. They held up great were nice and stiff and for my use that inner diameter worked out perfect. On my latest build I was interested to see if there was a way to drop some weight off the build and keep the reliability, I am not the lightest guy at 190lbs and will be riding an Ibis HD4 through rock gardens, so these won't live an easy life, having said that I don't have a history of breaking rims either..

Anywhoo
I was looking at AS738C from xmcarbonspeed which drop 55g per rim
EIE A650BC34D25 drop 40g per rim and are 34mm wide inside

was curious if anyone here had real world feedback on either of these


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

baltik said:


> I've owned 2 sets of LB 38/31.6 (650B) rims and really liked them. They held up great were nice and stiff and for my use that inner diameter worked out perfect. On my latest build I was interested to see if there was a way to drop some weight off the build and keep the reliability, I am not the lightest guy at 190lbs and will be riding an Ibis HD4 through rock gardens, so these won't live an easy life, having said that I don't have a history of breaking rims either..
> 
> Anywhoo
> I was looking at AS738C from xmcarbonspeed which drop 55g per rim
> ...


I will have the first ride on mine tonight so I can't provide much feedback just yet. My rims came in at 410g each and were 32mm wide (inner).

Here is my post on the wheels in this thread. Post #8482

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/cheap-chinese-carbon-rims-673410-85.html#post13524699


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## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

BXCc said:


> I will have the first ride on mine tonight so I can't provide much feedback just yet. My rims came in at 410g each and were 32mm wide (inner).
> 
> Here is my post on the wheels in this thread. Post #8482
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/cheap-chinese-carbon-rims-673410-85.html#post13524699


Perfect - looking forward to your feedback,

On a semi-related note is there any concern that the Hope or DT hubs being shipped on wheelbuilds from China are knockoffs? Afterall Hope's are UK made so hard to see Chinese manufacturers importing UK goods and reselling them. Also there are some similar looking knockoffs on Aliexpress... just thinking out loud


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

baltik said:


> Perfect - looking forward to your feedback,
> 
> On a semi-related note is there any concern that the Hope or DT hubs being shipped on wheelbuilds from China are knockoffs? Afterall Hope's are UK made so hard to see Chinese manufacturers importing UK goods and reselling them. Also there are some similar looking knockoffs on Aliexpress... just thinking out loud


I'm not sure about the AliExpress stuff but a friend of mine got the KHR934C rims laced to DT 350 hubs from XMCarbon this past summer for her Tallboy 3. They have been great so far and appeared to be authentic. The 54t ratchet kit slid right into place and everything worked as it should. Probably 750 to 1000 miles on them so far.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

baltik said:


> Perfect - looking forward to your feedback,


I have one ride in but it's an indoor ride so it's a little skewed. I did ride off some mini table tops that were 2 1/2 feet high or so on to flat. One landing was a little harder on the rear than it should have been and everything is still straight and true. No creaking or cracking so that's a plus.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

H-akka said:


> My EIE assymetric i34 AM wheels are now mounted. The pair weighs 1782 g. Had some trouble making them tubeless as the tape I had was for skinnier rims. The only slight flaw was the colour. I ordered a clearer red pantone colour, but it turned out brownish red. It doesn't match my pantone bridge.


I think they actually do get the color right, but you have to specify that you want it glossy. Matte doesn't have the same color gamut. The site is a little confusing, it shows matte rims with glossy logos (almost like stickers), but that's not how they ship by default. If you just say glossy without specifying the logos alone, they'll clearcoat everything.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

nzambec2 said:


> View attachment 1180739
> 
> 
> Ultralight 30mm Nexties laced with DT Swiss competition race spokes and Hope Pro 4 hubs. ended up at 1,436g for the wheelset, and $850 USD built.


Did that include the Enve stickers?


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

alexdi said:


> I think they actually do get the color right, but you have to specify that you want it glossy. Matte doesn't have the same color gamut. The site is a little confusing, it shows matte rims with glossy logos (almost like stickers), but that's not how they ship by default. If you just say glossy without specifying the logos alone, they'll clearcoat everything.


I understand. But it also doesn't match 201U which is matte, Pantone to NCS, which i guess spray paint is using, is no perfect match. But I didn't have a NCS chart at home when I ordered. But it's not a big issue anyway.


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## nzambec2 (Jan 2, 2018)

alexdi said:


> Did that include the Enve stickers?


No, I spent an additional $12 on the decals.


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## nzambec2 (Jan 2, 2018)

Just finished up a week in Georgia at Fort Mountain State Park. My wheels for my '18 Epic (Nextie Ultralight 30mm 28h laced with dt comp race spokes and hope pro4 hubs, 1,436g) held up with no hiccups. 

The trails were not overly rocky, and did not have anything "enduro features" on them, but the wheels were great. light, stiff, and fast. If you are looking for an XC rim, this is the one.


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## kieljon (Sep 7, 2015)

nzambec2 said:


> Just finished up a week in Georgia at Fort Mountain State Park. My wheels for my '18 Epic (Nextie Ultralight 30mm 28h laced with dt comp race spokes and hope pro4 hubs, 1,436g) held up with no hiccups.
> 
> The trails were not overly rocky, and did not have anything "enduro features" on them, but the wheels were great. light, stiff, and fast. If you are looking for an XC rim, this is the one.


1,436 is stupid light (in a good way). I'm now dreaming about a pair of "spare" wheels for the rare occasions I race.


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## Karlewski (Dec 3, 2016)

I’ve had a handful of rides on my Ultra-lights now as well and have zero complaints. A couple of the trails where quite rocky too. Managed to jack up my back but, the rims a pristine.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

I will be purchasing a wheel set from either xmcarbonspeed, carbonfan or light bicycle and had a question.

It appears that these companies vary in price on built wheels. Light Bicycle and Carbonfan seem more expensive and xmcarbonspeed is the cheapest. Of course, the rims I am looking at for LB and CF are asymmetric.

All will be built on DT 240s with shimano driver, 28 hole and CX ray spokes. I am going for the UD Matte finish.
I am comparing the following models: 
xmcarbonspeed CSXMW-HR927C, carbonfan TD-wheel-32-25-29er, lightbicycle 29C19

My question is, why is xmcarbonspeed so much cheaper? They are over $400 cheaper than carbonfan and over $200 cheaper than light bicycle. Is there a big difference in quality... or is just because the more expensive rims are asymmetric? Is it worth more to go with LB or CF?

Additionally, the xmcarbonspeed wheels are claimed to be ~150g lighter than the lightbicycle rims and they are a bit wider.

Thanks!


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Aren't those xmcarbonspeed rims 27mm outer, 22mm inner width - narrower than your choices from Carbonfan and LB? That explains some of the weight. As to why they're cheaper, people pay for reputation. As LB and CF have built up a reputation for reliability they've found they could get away with charging more - opening up room for competition like XMC.


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

its called value adding process. 
even if the only difference is on packaging label, value is still added and can severely adjust price. 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

noremorse1 said:


> I will be purchasing a wheel set from either xmcarbonspeed, carbonfan or light bicycle and had a question.
> 
> It appears that these companies vary in price on built wheels. Light Bicycle and Carbonfan seem more expensive and xmcarbonspeed is the cheapest. Of course, the rims I am looking at for LB and CF are asymmetric.
> 
> ...


I have 3 sets of XMC rims and a friend has a complete wheelset from Peter. His prices are tough to beat and he has great service. That being said, are all the rims the same material and dimensions?


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

wayold said:


> Aren't those xmcarbonspeed rims 27mm outer, 22mm inner width - narrower than your choices from Carbonfan and LB? That explains some of the weight. As to why they're cheaper, people pay for reputation. As LB and CF have built up a reputation for reliability they've found they could get away with charging more - opening up room for competition like XMC.


You are right, those are 27mm external/22mm internal. Looks like I want to go with CSXMW-FHR930C which is 30mm extern. Still over 100grams claimed weight lighter than the 24mm internal light bicycle equiv ones I am looking at.

If it was you, which would you pick based on quality/reputation/service?


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

BXCc said:


> I have 3 sets of XMC rims and a friend has a complete wheelset from Peter. His prices are tough to beat and he has great service. That being said, are all the rims the same material and dimensions?


Thanks. I am leaning towards XMC. I have not read anything bad about them and it seems Peter is great to work with. I have also heard good things about Carbon Fan... but they are over $400 more.

The Lightbicycle and Carbon Fan wheels are asymmetric. XMC does not offer build of the asymmetric they offer. Other than that, they are very similar with just 1 mm different of internal width.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

noremorse1 said:


> Thanks. I am leaning towards XMC. I have not read anything bad about them and it seems Peter is great to work with. I have also heard good things about Carbon Fan... but they are over $400 more.
> 
> The Lightbicycle and Carbon Fan wheels are asymmetric. XMC does not offer build of the asymmetric they offer. Other than that, they are very similar with just 1 mm different of internal width.


Go asymmetric for more even spoke tension. As someone shopping for a carbon wheelset I have narrowed it down to LB or Carbonfan simply because they keep advancing the product with design and materials, which is something that I do not see other sellers pursuing. For whatever that's worth.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

life behind bars said:


> Go asymmetric for more even spoke tension. As someone shopping for a carbon wheelset I have narrowed it down to LB or Carbonfan simply because they keep advancing the product with design and materials, which is something that I do not see other sellers pursuing. For whatever that's worth.


Thanks. The LB price is about $200 more than XMC. I have read a lot of good things about asymmetric... especially when it comes to carbon.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

noremorse1 said:


> If it was you, which would you pick based on quality/reputation/service?


If it was me, I would go with the KHR934C rims from XMC with the T800 layup, DT 350 Centerlock hubs, and CX-Ray spokes. Total cost would be around $850 with a weight of 1400ish grams. If you want narrower rims, the FHR930C rims in T700 would save you $60ish but would weight 60 grams more. Also, if you go with centerlock rotors, the weight difference between 240s hubs and 350 hubs is about 50 grams. Peter's cost difference (240s vs 350) is around $180 if I recall correctly.

I have asymmetrical and standard carbon wheels. I can't tell a difference. I choose base off of width and weight. My latest set is asymmetrical only because that's the only 32mm inner width rim Peter has.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

BXCc said:


> If it was me, I would go with the KHR934C rims from XMC with the T800 layup, DT 350 Centerlock hubs, and CX-Ray spokes. Total cost would be around $850 with a weight of 1400ish grams. If you want narrower rims, the FHR930C rims in T700 would save you $60ish but would weight 60 grams more. Also, if you go with centerlock rotors, the weight difference between 240s hubs and 350 hubs is about 50 grams. Peter's cost difference (240s vs 350) is around $180 if I recall correctly.
> 
> I have asymmetrical and standard carbon wheels. I can't tell a difference. I choose base off of width and weight. My latest set is asymmetrical only because that's the only 32mm inner width rim Peter has.


Thanks for your input!


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## rumblytumbly (Jun 5, 2013)

noremorse1 said:


> Thanks for your input!


I don't know if they're still doing their "early adopter" program, but worth an email to Carbonfan about any special pricing. I have a set of their 30ext/24int asymmetric T800 skyweights with DT240 centerlock weighting 1280g for the pair that have been awesome so far for a year. Great quality, great price and service. Ive only hand built a few wheels in my life, but the validity of asymmetric and balancing of spoke tension just makes sense.


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## allenc (Dec 14, 2015)

noremorse1 said:


> Thanks. I am leaning towards XMC. I have not read anything bad about them and it seems Peter is great to work with. I have also heard good things about Carbon Fan... but they are over $400 more.
> 
> The Lightbicycle and Carbon Fan wheels are asymmetric. XMC does not offer build of the asymmetric they offer. Other than that, they are very similar with just 1 mm different of internal width.


Maybe you didn't do enough homework on XMcarbonspeed's products 

These are the 30mm asymmetric 29 boost wheels from XMcarbonspeed: Super light T800 29 Plus mtb bike wheels carbon

These are the XC asym rims from Peter's company: XC Asymmetric

Go and check with Peter, they should be able to build any combo wheels with any rims and hubs they have.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Speaking of xmcarbonspeed, how comes the AM 38mm rim is lighter than the 36mm?

29er 36mm wide Asymmetric carbon rim mtb
29er 38mm wide Asymmetric carbon rim mtb


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

CrozCountry said:


> Speaking of xmcarbonspeed, how comes the AM 38mm rim is lighter than the 36mm?
> 
> 29er 36mm wide Asymmetric carbon rim mtb
> 29er 38mm wide Asymmetric carbon rim mtb


I thought the same thing when I bought mine. I got the 27.5 version of the AS938C rims and requested a stronger layup. Mine were both 410 grams.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

allenc said:


> Maybe you didn't do enough homework on XMcarbonspeed's products
> 
> These are the 30mm asymmetric 29 boost wheels from XMcarbonspeed: Super light T800 29 Plus mtb bike wheels carbon
> 
> ...


I dont have a boost frame, so dont need boost hubs. I dont see anywhere on the site where they offer asymmetric wheel builds. I see the rims... but not the wheel builds.

This is where I am looking:
XC


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

noremorse1 said:


> I dont have a boost frame, so dont need boost hubs. I dont see anywhere on the site where they offer asymmetric wheel builds. I see the rims... but not the wheel builds.
> 
> This is where I am looking:
> XC


Just pick the rims you want and send a message to Peter through the site. He can then give you the best price on the options you select. He can build any of his rims to DT, Bitex or Novatec hubs using any of the Sapim spokes.
I know it isn't as simple as CarbonFan's site, but it does give you more options.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

BXCc said:


> Just pick the rims you want and send a message to Peter through the site. He can then give you the best price on the options you select. He can build any of his rims to DT, Bitex or Novatec hubs using any of the Sapim spokes.
> I know it isn't as simple as CarbonFan's site, but it does give you more options.


Good to know. I have been running Bitex hubs for the past 2 seasons and love them. Glad to know that is an option. I just rebuilt the rear hubs with new freehub and pressed in new bearings. Based on the info I found on CarbonFan for weights... it looks like the Bitex hubs fall between the 240s and 350 as far as weight goes.

I am going for gold on this wheel build and plan to splurge for the 240s hubs.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

BXCc said:


> Just pick the rims you want and send a message to Peter through the site. He can then give you the best price on the options you select. He can build any of his rims to DT, Bitex or Novatec hubs using any of the Sapim spokes.
> I know it isn't as simple as CarbonFan's site, but it does give you more options.


I also just found their .com site. I was using the Chinese site previously. This makes more sense now on contacting him for quotes.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

noremorse1 said:


> I also just found their .com site. I was using the Chinese site previously. This makes more sense now on contacting him for quotes.


The .cn site is relatively new for him and it's somewhat easier for buying the stuff he has on the site. But if you want to customize anything, sending him a message is the best route as he is normally very accommodating. The .com site has more products too.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

BXCc said:


> The .cn site is relatively new for him and it's somewhat easier for buying the stuff he has on the site. But if you want to customize anything, sending him a message is the best route as he is normally very accommodating. The .com site has more products too.


Already exchanged a few emails with Peter. Seems like a very nice guy... and super fast responses.

The XMC prices are really good. So good that I think I am going to opt for T800 over T700.

Thanks for the help!


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

Can anyone speak to rim depth when it comes to asymmetric carbon wheels? The two wheels I am now deciding between, one at XMC the other at CF, seem to have lower rim depth. The XMC is 30mm wide, 25mm internal and only 22mm deep. The CF is 30mm wide, 24mm internal and 24mm deep.

Both of those depths seem on the low side... especially the XMC rim.

What are the disadvantages of a low depth rim? I know with aluminum it can influence stiffness... but carbon is naturally stiffer. Is that still a concern? These are not road rims, so I dont think aerodynamics will play a factor here.

Thanks.


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## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

Question for previous CarbonFan buyers: Do you receive a tracking email when the rims/wheels are on their way?


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## rumblytumbly (Jun 5, 2013)

Typical EMS to the states. Tracking number, then a bit of a black hole while it's on the ship, then pops up in local tracking, delivered. A few weeks.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

rumblytumbly said:


> Typical EMS to the states. Tracking number, then a bit of a black hole while it's on the ship, then pops up in local tracking, delivered. A few weeks.


Do they make you pay any taxes or duty when it is delivered? I am confused about that portion of it.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

noremorse1 said:


> Do they make you pay any taxes or duty when it is delivered? I am confused about that portion of it.


I've never had to for any of my carbon rims.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

noremorse1 said:


> Can anyone speak to rim depth when it comes to asymmetric carbon wheels? The two wheels I am now deciding between, one at XMC the other at CF, seem to have lower rim depth. The XMC is 30mm wide, 25mm internal and only 22mm deep. The CF is 30mm wide, 24mm internal and 24mm deep.
> 
> Both of those depths seem on the low side... especially the XMC rim.
> 
> ...


How much do you weigh, what kind of riding do you intend to do on these, and do you pinch flat often?

I got those 30mm ~310g T800 rims, and, just looking at them,I don't reckon they'd take much abuse. I haven't put the calipers to them, but they look a bit under 30mm external, with a lip that is not much more than 2mm.

That said, I got these for purely for xc racing, and reckon they should hold up, as I rarely get flat tyres.

From the research I've done, I see the low height as an advantage, giving a bit more compliance - and I am having a play with thin more elastic NDS spokes to hopefully counter spokes loosening. Dunno if there are any disadvantages of the low height. The new notubes rims are taking things to the extreme - touting extra comfort from their sub-20mm rim heights. Maybe you should Google some conversations on those rims and report back if anyone can think of any downsides.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

sclyde2 said:


> How much do you weigh, what kind of riding do you intend to do on these, and do you pinch flat often?
> 
> I got those 30mm ~310g T800 rims, and, just looking at them,I don't reckon they'd take much abuse. I haven't put the calipers to them, but they look a bit under 30mm external, with a lip that is not much more than 2mm.
> 
> ...


I race XC and ride trails. I am looking for this wheelset to be my race day wheelset... with the occasional group ride on them. I have never pinch flatted and only burped my tire occasionally when I am running pressure around 18-20. However, I have found my sweet spot is 24psi front and 25psi rear and havent had a problem since.

I am looking at some of the other wheelsets on both sites now with more traditional depths of 25 or higher.

I just checked Stans site and found the Podium SRD wheelset with a depth of 18.7mm. Wow... that is very low. Going to find some reviews of this and see what people are saying. Thanks.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

So... it seems the big takeaway for the shallow rim depth, at least from what Stan's claims on their super shallow Podium SRD, is that it can take up to a 10mm deflection and return to its normal shape. They are able to do this because of the carbon layup they are using.

It looks like XMC is doing something similar here, but not as extreme. The T800 carbon layup is lighter and stronger. The shallow rim depth benefits from the strength, and will probably have higher deflection without a cracked rim.

Obviously, a shallower rim will also be lighter... and thats the real goal here.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

I just pulled the trigger and ordered a set of wheels from XM Carbonspeed.

KAS930C 29er asym rims T800 28/28H UD matt with spoke holes in rim bed
T700/800 Asymetric mtb carbon rim
DT 350S centerlock hubs 28/28H straight pull for 100x15/142x12 with Shimano 11S driver
Sapim CX-Ray spokes
Sapim self-securing nipples


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

noremorse1 said:


> I just pulled the trigger and ordered a set of wheels from XM Carbonspeed...


If you don't mind saying, what was the total shipped cost on these?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

noremorse1 said:


> I just pulled the trigger and ordered a set of wheels from XM Carbonspeed.
> 
> KAS930C 29er asym rims T800 28/28H UD matt with spoke holes in rim bed
> T700/800 Asymetric mtb carbon rim
> ...


Good choice. In my limited experience dealing with Chinese sellers, the operations that Peter is involved with (xmiplay, xmcarbonspeed) are the only ones that delivered on their promises.

Given the description of your intended usage, those wheels sound ideal.

My wheelset will be pretty much identical to yours (same rims, CL, SP non-boost hubs), but with the 240s version of those hubs, super cx-ray spokes on the lower tension sides, and brass nipples. Otherwise the same, except for gloss finish.

Using old spokes, I've only built one wheel as a tester to be sure of spoke lengths (found the claimed ERD to be way off), and am still waiting for some spokes to complete the final build.

They look pretty promising. My test front wheel build is under 600g with brass nipples and heavier spokes. The minor offset in those assymetric rims seems to have a big impact, with the differential in tensions found to be much closer than usual, so should make for a strong build, even at an estimated sub-1300g.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

sclyde2 said:


> Good choice. In my limited experience dealing with Chinese sellers, the operations that Peter is involved with (xmiplay, xmcarbonspeed) are the only ones that delivered on their promises.
> 
> Given the description of your intended usage, those wheels sound ideal.
> 
> ...


I was originally planning on going with the 240s hubs. However, after shipping and paypal fees, my cost was just over $1000 and that was too much for me. The 240s hubs save about 70-80 grams on the build, even with 350 hubs, is 1 1/2 pounds lighter than my current wheelset (wtb frequency i25 on 32 hole j-bend bitex hubs with sapim race spokes).

I am a little nervous about aluminum nipples as I have heard various opinions on them. The save about 15+ grams per wheel though so I am going to risk it.

I think my wheel should be just under 1350 grams with valves and tape. I ran that number calculating the rims as 320 grams and the margin on them is 310 +/-10 grams.

You will gain about 25-30 grams on mine with those brass nipples, but save about 60-70 with the 240 hubs. I think you will squeak in under 1300.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

wayold said:


> If you don't mind saying, what was the total shipped cost on these?


I am not sure on the etiquette here as it was a custom quote that I agreed to with Peter via emails back and forth. I can say that it is much cheaper than the equivalent I found at CF and LB.

In fact, it is over $150 less than the most equivalent wheel with an identical build at CF... and that is before CF shipping and paypal fees. So probably about a savings of $300 dollars over CF.


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## cabra cadabra (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm about to order these:
Super light T800 29 Plus mtb bike wheels carbon
w/ T800, Boost Dt 240s, 28H, Cx-rays

This is for my hardtail for XC racing, I ride aggressive but saving this for XC races/terrain, not enduro and big drops. I weigh 153.

Peter has been very responsive. We have gone back and forth and had some more questions that might be too detailed. I assume they can't do a rim with no internal drilling (smooth bed so no tubeless tape needed) right?

Maybe it is easier and saves weight to have holes anyway, even after adding tape. Not sure. Came across this thread and sounds like Tyvek adds only 9g. Anyone know what Stan's tape weighs and what the proper tape width is? Do I only need to cover the very center to cover the spoke holes?
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/tubeless-tape-thread-926021.html

What do they typically do for decals etc? Was planning on them being plain.

FYI: going from 18T to 36T adds $50. They don't do 54T.

$10/wheel to assemble. I was thinking of just gettign the parts but not when it is that cheap.

Any driving reason to ask for internal drilling and internal nipples?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

With a rim height of only 22mm, it might not be physically possible to manoeuvre nipples in there without holes in the rim bed.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

cabra cadabra said:


> Do I only need to cover the very center to cover the spoke holes?


I don't know what everyone else does, but I always use the widest tape that will fit. For these 25mm internal rims, that means 25mm tape. Or, given the curve in the rim bed, I might be able to fit 26-27mm tape in there. I try to make sure the tyre bead is pressing the tape into the rim, as I am paranoid of the tape edges lifting, and getting a leak through a rim bed hole. If that happens, you then get sealant coming into contact with the nipple heads. I've read enough stories on what happens when you mix certain sealants with carbon rims and certain nipples (alloy ones). Even with brass nipples, and making sure sealant stays away,I was surprised how green my brass nipple heads were when I disassembled my 4 year old carbon wheels recently.

Putting narrow tape in that covers just the holes sounds to me to be way to increase the risk of eventually springing a leak.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

^^ditto


Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

cabra cadabra said:


> I'm about to order these:
> Super light T800 29 Plus mtb bike wheels carbon
> w/ T800, Boost Dt 240s, 28H, Cx-rays
> 
> ...


They can do rims with no holes in the rim bed. You just need to let him know.

25mm wide Stans tape will work for your wheels. It will add about 5g per wheel.

The rims will come with no decals/logos unless you requested them.

I thought Peter can do the 54t upgrade. Did you ask?


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

formu1fan said:


> How are these? I'm looking at something similar. Did you order it from them as a wheelset or built the wheels yourself? What hubs are you using?


Couldn't wait so I have been riding them in snow. I can only compare with alu rims that came on my bikes. But the are awsome, like totally different bike, much more responsive and fun. But something is wobbly. I think it's the shape of my rear tire. It is not easy to see where the wobbling comes from. The bead looks evenly seated though.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

I'm looking for carbon rims. I'm disappointed with my DT Swiss X1825 Spline wheelset weighing in at about 1690 grams with the DT Swiss 18T ratchet hub. I'm on a budget of about $1,000 +/-.

* Want to lose about 100g per wheel (be under or about 1500g total )
* Weight 189 lbs (86 kg)
* XC Race and AM trails in Michigan (rocks and roots but pretty tame considering)
* No big jumping or drops over 4 feet.
* Don't want a race day only wheelset, so all my training will be on these wheels.
* Prefer wheelset with 25 +/- inner and 30 +/- outer

Strongly considering Light Bicycles 29C19 (open to other suggestions) but I can't find many reviews of them. Below is my build I'm considering from LB:

Front Axle:15 / 110mm BOOST
Rear Axle:12 / 148mm BOOST
Freehub Body:Sram XD
Brake System:Center lock
Front Holes:28H
Rear Holes:28H
Spoke Head:straight pull
Hub Color:Black
Hub Brand: DT SWISS
Hub Model:240S
Ratchet:54T
Spoke:Sapim CX Ray
Nipple: Aluminum Black
Finish:matte
Weave:UD

weight: *1427g* 
Unit Price*: USD 1108.00*

***What should I change in this LB build and why?***

***What other wheelsets should I be considering?***

What say you?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

MI-XC said:


> I'm looking for carbon rims. I'm disappointed with my DT Swiss X1825 Spline wheelset weighing in at about 1690 grams with the DT Swiss 18T ratchet hub. I'm on a budget of about $1,000 +/-.
> 
> * Want to lose about 100g per wheel (be under or about 1500g total )
> * Weight 189 lbs (86 kg)
> ...


Change 1)
I would get that same set but through Peter at XMCarbonSpeed.cn. Just shoot him a message about having these rims built up to your specs. 
T700/800 Asymetric mtb carbon rim

Reason 1) because you would save $200+ dollars (T700 layup)

Change 2) I would go with 350 hubs with the same specs.

Reason 2) it would save you $175 and only weigh an extra 50 grams.

If you go with the rims I linked with the T800 layup and 350 hubs, you would weigh in around 1300 grams and save $300.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

BXCc said:


> Change 1)
> I would get that same set but through Peter at XMCarbonSpeed.cn. Just shoot him a message about having these rims built up to your specs.
> T700/800 Asymetric mtb carbon rim
> 
> ...


Im less concerned about saving a couple hundred bucks as I am about trusting the wheelset I'm buying is well made, durable and ride quality. I'm not sure about a 1300g wheelset being able to handle that with me weighing 189 lbs (86kg). Also, I feel more comfortable with the reputation of LB.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

MI-XC said:


> Im less concerned about saving a couple hundred bucks as I am about trusting the wheelset I'm buying is well made, durable and ride quality. I'm not sure about a 1300g wheelset being able to handle that with me weighing 189 lbs (86kg). Also, I feel more comfortable with the reputation of LB.


I am in the same place as you... similar weight and also ride in Michigan (I am in the Traverse City area).

I did a ton of research and asked a lot of questions. Peter at XM Carbonspeed is very reputable and builds great wheels. I just had him build me a sub 1350gram wheelset and it cost less than what you are spending at LB... and this set uses the T800 carbon layup.

The thing about T800, compared to T700, is that a lot of people associate LIGHTER with WEAKER. T800 is actually about 10% stronger than T700 and is also lighter. Science.

Anyhow, dont be dismayed by XM Carbonspeed. If you are more comfortable ordering from LB... do so. But I was in the exact same place you are.

What part of Michigan are you riding in?


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

noremorse1 said:


> I am in the same place as you... similar weight and also ride in Michigan (I am in the Traverse City area).
> 
> I did a ton of research and asked a lot of questions. Peter at XM Carbonspeed is very reputable and builds great wheels. I just had him build me a sub 1350gram wheelset and it cost less than what you are spending at LB... and this set uses the T800 carbon layup.
> 
> ...


I'll look more into XM Carbonspeed.

I'm in the Detroit suburbs and will be racing the XC point series all over MI. I think the furthest north I get is Manistee and Grayling.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

noremorse1 said:


> I am in the same place as you... similar weight and also ride in Michigan (I am in the Traverse City area).
> 
> I did a ton of research and asked a lot of questions. Peter at XM Carbonspeed is very reputable and builds great wheels. I just had him build me a sub 1350gram wheelset and it cost less than what you are spending at LB... and this set uses the T800 carbon layup.
> 
> ...


What you say about T800 carbon is correct mainly about tensile/stretching/bending strength, not so much compressive strength. They get those T800 rims lighter through thinner walls. If they also thin out the rim lips, there is a higher risk that a compressive squared edged Rock strike will damage the rim. With the rim lips, type of carbon makes less difference, it is more about thickness there. If you were over ~80kg and planned to ride your new wheels over terrain where it is not unusual for you to get pinch flats, I'd be looking at rims with lips closer to 3mm than 2mm.

That LB rim appears to have a rim lip of 3mm, so would probably be more appropriate than the xmc rim, which has a lip under 2.5mm.

Having said all this, I have had much better service from Peter than what I got from LB. I don't see any difference in quality between the products each of the vendors. The better service and price makes it a no brainer.

I reckon assymetric rims are the way to go too. When I was looking for a rim, I was looking at 25mm+ internal widths, sub 400g assymetric. Only the xmc 30mm (external) xmc rim met this criteria. I would've preferred a slightly wider rim, but couldn't find any that were assymetric and under 400g. If i was heavier and wasnt looking for a rim for a dedicated race wheelset, i'd be looking at wider heavier rims. I see that LB has an asymmetric rim that is just on 400g and is about 27-28mm internal width.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

MI-XC said:


> I'll look more into XM Carbonspeed.
> 
> I'm in the Detroit suburbs and will be racing the XC point series all over MI. I think the furthest north I get is Manistee and Grayling.


Right on. The thing about XM Carbonspeed that dispelled me was they do not yet offer wheel builds to order off of their website on the asymmetric rims. I had to work with Peter via email/messenger and work out a custom quote. However, he is a breeze to work with and super fast on response. After talking to a few people who have bought several from him, I went for it. It is about $400 less than the wheelset I was looking at on CarbonFan.

You should try to get a bit further north. Some great races in Marquette up in the U.P. and here in the Traverse City area. I love Ore 2 Shore in August and Peak 2 Peak in October at Crystal Mountain.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

sclyde2 said:


> What you say about T800 carbon is correct mainly about tensile/stretching/bending strength, not so much compressive strength. They get those T800 rims lighter through thinner walls. If they also thin out the rim lips, there is a higher risk that a compressive squared edged Rock strike will damage the rim. With the rim lips, type of carbon makes less difference, it is more about thickness there. If you were over ~80kg and planned to ride your new wheels over terrain where it is not unusual for you to get pinch flats, I'd be looking at rims with lips closer to 3mm than 2mm.
> 
> That LB rim appears to have a rim lip of 3mm, so would probably be more appropriate than the xmc rim, which has a lip under 2.5mm.
> 
> ...


I dont ride a ton of rocky stuff normally. When I head up to Marquette, that is when I get into a lot more rock. I am about 86kg right now, but hope to below 80kg by the time race season starts.

I dont suffer from pinch flats currently. I would have like a rim that had a bigger lip. 3mm would have been perfect. However, all the others that I found were to deep... or too shallow. I took a chance with the 2+mm lip on the XMC model after reading up on the new Stans carbon podium set. That total rim is 18.7mm deep and the lip is just over 2mm. The reviewers state that, with a narrow rim, it is able to take a much bigger deflection without cracking. I posted about that earlier.

Anyhow, I am very excited about my rim set. Had I sprung for the 240s hubs, I would be under 1300grams on the set.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

I have put the calipers to my rims (those ~310g t800 30mm xmcarbonspeed ones). They are much closer to spec than I thought. My previous rough measurements (with a ruler) were off. The internal width (25), rim lip (2.5mm), and external width (30mm) are all within 0.05mm of spec.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

sclyde2 said:


> I have put the calipers to my rims (those ~310g t800 30mm xmcarbonspeed ones). They are much closer to spec than I thought. My previous rough measurements (with a ruler) were off. The internal width (25), rim lip (2.5mm), and external width (30mm) are all within 0.05mm of spec.


How do you like them? I have no idea what to expect as I have never ridden carbon wheels. What is your tire setup on them? What is the ride like on those rims?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

noremorse1 said:


> How do you like them? I have no idea what to expect as I have never ridden carbon wheels. What is your tire setup on them? What is the ride like on those rims?


I am still waiting on some spokes, so haven't ridden them. I don't expect to find them much different to my 4 year old 22/27mm internal/external 360g LB rims, a wheelset I have disassembled to scavenge the hubs (240s CL SP). Maybe a little extra vertical compliance over the other rims, but I don't expect to notice as the new rims will be going on a full suspension bike with reasonably big-for-xc 2.25/2.35" tyres.


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## cabra cadabra (Sep 28, 2010)

noremorse1 said:


> They can do rims with no holes in the rim bed. You just need to let him know.
> 
> 25mm wide Stans tape will work for your wheels. It will add about 5g per wheel.
> 
> ...


Peter is doing the 54T upgrade starting in April, so I ordered that since they won't me made until about April 10. I may ask about no holes in the rim bed now too. It will add a little weight, but save on tape weight and add strength.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Does XMCarbonspeed (Peter) make a T800 rim that is roughly an 30mm+ internal width? I'm looking on there now and can't seem to find one. Curious on pricing etc.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

svinyard said:


> Does XMCarbonspeed (Peter) make a T800 rim that is roughly an 30mm+ internal width? I'm looking on there now and can't seem to find one. Curious on pricing etc.


I don't know about carbons peed, but btlos makes a very nice t800/t700 rim with 29mm inner. I have laced 4 sets of them.

I assume by t800, you mean combination t800/t700?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

mjw said:


> I don't know about carbons peed, but btlos makes a very nice t800/t700 rim with 29mm inner. I have laced 4 sets of them.
> 
> I assume by t800, you mean combination t800/t700?


Well, I'm somewhat new to this so I'm not entirely sure. Are they making full blown T800 rims now? How has the i29 been for you? I want to run the typical 2.4 DHR II and 2.5 DHF tire combo and need something that will be ideal for those tires. I've heard i30 is somewhat of a minimum target though i'm a bit ignorant to the reality of what truly works/doesn't work.

Edit: I looked at those BLTOS, they look really nice but heavier than Light bike. WAY heavier than full T800 from XMC (~120g+). I'm not sure how big of a deal that is but saving 120g a wheel is pretty amazing assuming they aren't breaking at every turn. This is my first carbon wheelset so forgive if I'm missing something.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

svinyard said:


> Well, I'm somewhat new to this so I'm not entirely sure. Are they making full blown T800 rims now? How has the i29 been for you? I want to run the typical 2.4 DHR II and 2.5 DHF tire combo and need something that will be ideal for those tires. I've heard i30 is somewhat of a minimum target though i'm a bit ignorant to the reality of what truly works/doesn't work.
> 
> Edit: I looked at those BLTOS, they look really nice but heavier than Light bike. WAY heavier than full T800 from XMC (~120g+). I'm not sure how big of a deal that is but saving 120g a wheel is pretty amazing assuming they aren't breaking at every turn. This is my first carbon wheelset so forgive if I'm missing something.


Can you post a link to these T800 rims?

It's my understanding that T800 is both expensive, and also while light and stiff, much more brittle that T700. Of someone is selling rims are cheap prices and saying they Re full t800, it's probably b/s. Most who advertise super light, or sky weight, or premium, are using 20-25% t800, remainder t700.

Maxxis WT 2.5 were designed around 35mm,. It will be fine on a 29mm inner width rim.many people prefer close to 30mm, over 35mm for the profile it gives. 1mm between 29 and 30 is not enough to talk about, they will be virtually identical.

Most sets I have had in hand were 29er Enduro reinforced and sat around 460-470g, slightly under stayed weight. I would not trust a 29" rim 130g lighter than these. Especially if I were riding in places where minions are required!! But, that is just me. Where are you riding?

I


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

mjw said:


> Can you post a link to these T800 rims?
> 
> It's my understanding that T800 is both expensive, and also while light and stiff, much more brittle that T700. Of someone is selling rims are cheap prices and saying they Re full t800, it's probably b/s. Most who advertise super light, or sky weight, or premium, are using 20-25% t800, remainder t700.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. Link listed below for the rim. Its listed in the AM category and only has an i28 profile. Seems like people have nothing but good stuff to say about XMC but these are freaky light. Makes me wonder as well, but maybe its just the future . FYI I'm riding in PNW

KHR934C 29er mtb carbon rim 30mm depth 34mm width - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

svinyard said:


> Thanks for the info. Link listed below for the rim. Its listed in the AM category and only has an i28 profile. Seems like people have nothing but good stuff to say about XMC but these are freaky light. Makes me wonder as well, but maybe its just the future . FYI I'm riding in PNW
> 
> KHR934C 29er mtb carbon rim 30mm depth 34mm width - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


Something smells fishy to me. I would use a company like Enve as a benchmark. Their xc 29er rims come in at 367g, and have less depth and width. AM rim with more width, depth, and thicker rim walls at 350g? Suspect. And they don't disclose how much t800 they use, which is also a bit preposterous. They want you to think 100%.

PNW. Okay. Yeah. Real dirt, mixed weather, rocks and roots. Minion is proper where you are. I'd be careful not to under rim yourself and over tire the rim though! XC rim/Enduro tire sorta thing.

My recommendation stands. BTLOS 36mm premium rim (with 29mm inner) is a good value to me, if you want that t800 mix. Again, 465ish for Enduro reinforced. 440 without. Both will be much stronger than this xmcarbinspeed stuff imho. 3.5mm rim wall, pretty robust mold. I have laced them for guys who are over 250 lbs and we are several months in with great feedback. I'm also a bit of a rim killer and I have been having great luck on .y personal set.

They are nearly identical to Nextie premium rims but cost less.i think they also have an Easter coupon code on now. "EASTER80" on their instagram.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

svinyard said:


> Thanks for the info. Link listed below for the rim. Its listed in the AM category and only has an i28 profile. Seems like people have nothing but good stuff to say about XMC but these are freaky light. Makes me wonder as well, but maybe its just the future . FYI I'm riding in PNW
> 
> KHR934C 29er mtb carbon rim 30mm depth 34mm width - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


XMC has great products and Peter provides top notch service after the sale. And the rim weight for the t700 is on par with most other companies and rims of that width. I have a set of the HR935C rims that came in at the advertised spec of 440ish grams and they've been great for 2 years now. I also ordered a set of wheels from Peter with the KHR934C T700 rims that you linked for a friend of mine and those have about 1,000 miles on them without issues. I do agree that the T800 layup is super light but I don't think that it's a bad thing. If you're worried, ask Peter to have a stronger layup done. You will still be well below 400g.

I have one ride in on my new wheels from Peter that are 38mm wide 27.5 rims and they weighed in at 410 each with T700 carbon. Full wheel set weighs 1475g and they already took some 3 foot drops to flat without any issues. No rock strike tests yet though so the verdict is still out on that part.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

BXCc said:


> XMC has great products and Peter provides top notch service after the sale. And the rim weight for the t700 is on par with most other companies and rims of that width. I have a set of the HR935C rims that came in at the advertised spec of 440ish grams and they've been great for 2 years now. I also ordered a set of wheels from Peter with the KHR934C T700 rims that you linked for a friend of mine and those have about 1,000 miles on them without issues. I do agree that the T800 layup is super light but I don't think that it's a bad thing. If you're worried, ask Peter to have a stronger layup done. You will still be well below 400g.
> 
> I have one ride in on my new wheels from Peter that are 38mm wide 27.5 rims and they weighed in at 410 each with T700 carbon. Full wheel set weighs 1475g and they already took some 3 foot drops to flat without any issues. No rock strike tests yet though so the verdict is still out on that part.


That is good to hear man! Thanks for all the help btw with XMC. I put my order in about 9 days ago. Peter told me there is about a 12-15 day lead on the rims, then another 2-3 to build them. Hopeful I see them by mid-April!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Man. Peter is amazing at responding via email etc for a manufacturer. Certainly makes it seem like he is there to help. Glad you guys have great experiences there. The stuff is really really affordable too.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I'm looking at a wheelset from Peter with the following:

Rim. KHR936C
DT Swiss 350 32h boost f/r
Spokes: CX-Ray
Nipples: Sapim self securing

Does that sound about right for trail riding with DHR/DHF 2.4/2.5?

Also, Peter mentioned that the T800 34mm wide rim was designed for XC and not for AM.

Side note: do you know the internal width of the KHR935c? Is that a better rim for what I want to do than the KHR936C?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

svinyard said:


> I'm looking at a wheelset from Peter with the following:
> 
> Rim. KHR936C
> DT Swiss 350 32h boost f/r
> ...


That wheelset looks like it would work perfectly. I think 28mm to 30mm inner width is a sweet spot for 2.3 to 2.5 tires. I ran 29mm rims with 2.35" tires for a couple years but went to 32mm rims as I'm running 2.6's now. The wheelset is pretty similar to mine except I got the AS738C rims. If you go with 350 hubs for Centerlock rotors, you could save about 80g without spending any extra funds.

I would stick with the KHR936C rims as they are a newer design. But then again, the 935 / 735 profiles with the 25mm depth have been around awhile and are pretty well proven. Nextie, Carbonfan and others use the same profile. Here is the HR935C rim I mentioned. I believe it's 29mm inner width, I can check in a day or two when I swap out the rear tire. 
HR935C 29er mtb hookless carbon rim 35mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

Back on the Centerlock rotor topic, if you go that route, Bikewagon has some XTR RT98 180mm Centerlock rotors for relatively cheap at $28.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-RT...530545?hash=item5695548071:g:1P4AAOSwTm9aHVMG


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

svinyard said:


> The stuff is really really affordable too.


My wife would disagree with that statement.


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## iggs (Oct 18, 2007)

Been following this thread for a bit and keen to get folks thoughts on a carbon wheel set I'm procrastinating about

Here in Sydney, Australia I ride a Canyon Strive. Riding is rocky. Some Enduro style racing. Tyres typically 650b 2.4 HR2 front, 2.3 Minion SS rear with a ghetto cush core in both. I'm a fit and forget rider as much as possible. Weight in about 80kg

The Spline One wheels that came on the bike have been really good (240 hubs, DT 471 rims). Specs say 1700g and they have taken a beating. Finally damaged the rear at a Stromlo race boosting a small rock garden and hitting a very hard square edge fast.

I've currently got a set of Spank oozy 345 wheels on there. 30mm id. Weigh in just shy of 2000g. They have a reputation for being strong

I have a set of hope 32h Pro 2 evo hubs sitting doing nothing.

I've been looking at the LB asymmetrical rim 
https://www.lightbicycle.com/EN728-asymmetric-rim-profile-carbon-27.5-inch-mtb-rims.html

These seem similar
http://xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1423

I've got a few options. Build up the carbon rims on the 32H hope or 28H DT hubs

What spec rims would you recommend. Which would be most resistant to rock scars. What spec spokes? What wheel weights should I expect?

I'd be building them up myself. Done a few wheels now and they have fared well. Park spoke tension meter definitely helps

All thoughts gratefully received.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

iggs said:


> Been following this thread for a bit and keen to get folks thoughts on a carbon wheel set I'm procrastinating about
> 
> Here in Sydney, Australia I ride a Canyon Strive. Riding is rocky. Some Enduro style racing. Tyres typically 650b 2.4 HR2 front, 2.3 Minion SS rear with a ghetto cush core in both. I'm a fit and forget rider as much as possible. Weight in about 80kg
> 
> ...


Hey man, you might check the DIY Carbon wheel thread in the Wheels forum. I've asked these exact questions and some good dudes helped me out. I'm watching here Tom incase others pipe up with good info (I'm sure they will).


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## iggs (Oct 18, 2007)

svinyard said:


> Hey man, you might check the DIY Carbon wheel thread in the Wheels forum. I've asked these exact questions and some good dudes helped me out. I'm watching here Tom incase others pipe up with good info (I'm sure they will).


Cool. Thanks for the heads up in the thread. I'll have a read

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I'm thinking about mounting some XM wheels with dt350s on a 2018 Fox 36. I'm new to this and am wondering which axle works? I was planning on a thru axle. Do I need any conversion adapter for this? Which size thru axle do I buy? Sorry for the dumb question.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

svinyard said:


> I'm thinking about mounting some XM wheels with dt350s on a 2018 Fox 36. I'm new to this and am wondering which axle works? I was planning on a thru axle. Do I need any conversion adapter for this? Which size thru axle do I buy? Sorry for the dumb question.


Buy the hub that fits your fork. No adapters needed. The axle comes with the fork.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

svinyard said:


> I'm thinking about mounting some XM wheels with dt350s on a 2018 Fox 36. I'm new to this and am wondering which axle works? I was planning on a thru axle. Do I need any conversion adapter for this? Which size thru axle do I buy? Sorry for the dumb question.


Is your Fox 36 Float setup for 15mm or 20mm thru axle? You would order your wheel with that size.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Just an update on my wheel build - mentioned in my posts above. I finally received the last of the spokes, and built them up on the weekend.

Build:
30/25mm ext/internal width xmcarbonspeed T800 assymetric rims, 28h UD gloss. Were a bit lighter than claimed, at 303/307g.
Hubs: 240s SP CL 100x15, 142x12 xd driver 54t ratchet. These hubs were pulled out of an old wheelset.
High tension side spokes: 302mm cx-ray SP black
Low tension side spokes: 302mm super cx-ray SP black
Nipples: standard DT Swiss brass 12mm silver (half 2.0mm, half 1.8mm)
Wheelset weighed in at 582/682, or 1264g total.

The assymetric rims built up with very even tension, so I have built them initially with lower tension (~120) than I normally would (130). Will ride them a few times then check and maybe up the tension a little.

Even though I did a test build with some old 300mm spokes, and found them to come up over 2mm short, the new 302mm are inexplicably a tiny bit too long. Not sure what happened there.

For all those getting these rims, I recommend 27mm stans yellow tape. It just fits, but you have to pull it really really tight as you put it on. It added 9g (+-1g) per wheel.

I have mounted 2.35f/2.25r racing Ralphs. Have put tubes in for the moment, until I have ridden them a few times and finalise the spoke tensions. Will then go tubeless.

Haven't yet finished the bike they are going on (hongfu FM058), so haven't test ridden them yet. Should finish the bike tomorrow night. Am tempted to enter a local xc club race this weekend, but should probably test ride the bike instead.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

sclyde2 said:


> Just an update on my wheel build - mentioned in my posts above. I finally received the last of the spokes, and built them up on the weekend.
> 
> Build:
> 30/25mm ext/internal width xmcarbonspeed T800 assymetric rims, 28h UD gloss. Were a bit lighter than claimed, at 303/307g.
> ...


Thanks for the update and info. I have Peter building me the exact same rims with T800. Difference is I am going with DT350s instead of 240s and went with Aluminum nipples.

Ill order some 27mm stans this week with your recommendation. Appreciated.


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## consa (Dec 16, 2017)

MI-XC said:


> I'm looking for carbon rims. I'm disappointed with my DT Swiss X1825 Spline wheelset weighing in at about 1690 grams with the DT Swiss 18T ratchet hub. I'm on a budget of about $1,000 +/-.
> 
> * Want to lose about 100g per wheel (be under or about 1500g total )
> * Weight 189 lbs (86 kg)
> ...


They meet your requirements!
https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/han...il-all-mountain-29er-carbon-wheelset-for-sale


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

svinyard said:


> I'm thinking about mounting some XM wheels with dt350s on a 2018 Fox 36. I'm new to this and am wondering which axle works? I was planning on a thru axle. Do I need any conversion adapter for this? Which size thru axle do I buy? Sorry for the dumb question.


If your fork is Boost it'll have a 15 x 110 axle for that size hub. It should be Boost since its 2018.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

eb1888 said:


> If your fork is Boost it'll have a 15 x 110 axle for that size hub. It should be Boost since its 2018.


And in 2019 it will be MEGA Boost. In 2020 it will be Ultra Boost. Then, in 2022... it will go to Retro Boost... which is half way between Boost and MEGA.

Marketing.


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## iggs (Oct 18, 2007)

So Ive just pressed go on 2 rims from Oxive Carbon

https://www.oxivecarbon.com/collect...-27-5-mtb-clincher-rim-hookless-free-shipping

28H 3k matt finish with orange decals

At $169 each including worldwide shipping & 2 year (720 day) guarantee it seems like excellent value










Its always a bit of a gamble buying from brand I haven't heard from so I done a reasonable amount of research first

Chatting to Simon of Oxive via facebook messenger he sent me some photos showing his business card and that showed the business behind the brand to be Xiamen Ekay Composites Carbon Bike Wheels Manufacturer Xiamen Ekay Composites Technology Co.

I found the promo video interesting






Apparently they have been making rims for several well known brands since 2012 but have recently decided to create their own direct to consumer brand Oxive

This recent decision is reflected in their website, its pretty barebones, but Simon's communication has been great. Payment was through paypal

I'll be lacing the rims onto some DT Swiss 240s hubs I've got with DT Swiss competition Race spokes and 12mm brass nipples that I've ordered from Bike 24

The with the rim weight of 430g DT Swiss Spoke calculator gives me wheel weights of F-765g + R-833g = Total 1598g

I'm reasonably hard on wheels and this is my first set of carbon rims so it will be interesting to see how they hold up. They are going on a Canyon Strive and will be used for a full range of riding including some Enduro racing. Riding here in Sydney is pretty dry and rocky. With a middle of the road weight 430g construction and 3mm rim thickness I think they should be good. I've gone for the 3k finish because its supposed to hold up better to scuffs etc. They will be a bit lighter than my current 500g aluminum rims which are built into a 2000g wheelset

I've gone for the 26mm ID rim rather than something wider because I prefer the tyre profile (Maxxis HR2 and Minion SS) to the 30mm ID I've currently got. I also seem to get less damage on the less wide rims

So now I just have to wait. Simon say it will be 8 days before they ship


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

iggs said:


> So Ive just pressed go on 2 rims from Oxive Carbon
> 
> https://www.oxivecarbon.com/collect...-27-5-mtb-clincher-rim-hookless-free-shipping
> 
> ...


Those look pretty durable. You are right, with 3mm rim width and coming in at 430g, they should be pretty beefy. Shaving over 1 pound off your current wheel-set weight will be very noticeable. This is especially true on starts and climbs. However, carbon is also much stiffer than your average aluminum wheel build. That will also be significant. It will feel different right away... especially on tight and high speed turns where you are used to a big more flex.

Good luck with the build! Make sure you post lots of pictures. That is what these folks love the most.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

iggs said:


> So Ive just pressed go on 2 rims from Oxive Carbon
> 
> I've gone for the 26mm ID rim rather than something wider because I prefer the tyre profile (Maxxis HR2 and Minion SS) to the 30mm ID I've currently got. I also seem to get less damage on the less wide rims


This looks like a solid enduro oriented build. 3.5mm beads should be strong. The tires you like are old school originally designed for skinnier rims. Your build should work ok for them. 
If you picked higher volume more rounded profile tires you could go with a 35mm inner rim or wider 
_*depending on the tire*_ and the terrain you ride. Higher speeds from longer dh runs can mean less width and stronger sidewalls.


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## cabra cadabra (Sep 28, 2010)

I just got my wheel from Peter. They look cherry and the shipping got them here before my due date. Once it leaves China it is way quicker than I expected and came next day after clearing customs from CA to NM.

I'll check the weight later but here is the spec:

KAS930C, 29" T800, UD, Matte, 28H,

DT swiss 240, XD driver, 54T, 28H, 
straight pull, centerlock

Sapim CX-ray spokes and black nipples

I'm having my shop check the spoke tensions right now. Anyone know what they should be? I emailed Peter but should be sleeping now haha!

Any other things to check out before riding new wheels?


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

cabra cadabra said:


> I just got my wheel from Peter. They look cherry and the shipping got them here before my due date. Once it leaves China it is way quicker than I expected and came next day after clearing customs from CA to NM.
> 
> I'll check the weight later but here is the spec:
> 
> ...


Nice! How long did it take to reach you from when he shipped? I got an identical build, except went with the 350 hubs. Mine were shipped out on the 13th and am excited to get them. Also, let me know what you find on tension as I will bring mine to the shop and have them check too.

Did you get tape and stems with yours? I didnt ask... and he didnt ask or specify. Not sure if they are included.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

cabra cadabra said:


> I just got my wheel from Peter. They look cherry and the shipping got them here before my due date. Once it leaves China it is way quicker than I expected and came next day after clearing customs from CA to NM.
> 
> I'll check the weight later but here is the spec:
> 
> ...


Are those nipples aluminium? If so, your wheelset should weigh in pretty close to mine (1264). I used heavier brass nipples, but negated that weight gain with some lighter low tension side spokes (used half super cx-ray spokes in each wheel). If those are non boost hubs, we have otherwise identical wheels, other than the gloss finish on mine.

I would be aiming for at least 120 on the high tension side.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

Ordered my rims from xmcarbonspeed on March 29th. Tracking info says they shipped on the 19th of April. How long does it take to get from the factory to your front porch? Are these wait times typical? This is my first experience ordering from China and I’m discovering that this requires a lot of patience...


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## swifteam (Nov 1, 2017)

The Boz said:


> Ordered my rims from xmcarbonspeed on March 29th. Tracking info says they shipped on the 19th of April. How long does it take to get from the factory to your front porch? Are these wait times typical? This is my first experience ordering from China and I'm discovering that this requires a lot of patience...


i have order 40mm rims from oxivecarbon carbon frame from dengfu on sep last year，it take about 8 days to get the tracking from oxive 15 days from dengfu


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

The Boz said:


> Ordered my rims from xmcarbonspeed on March 29th. Tracking info says they shipped on the 19th of April. How long does it take to get from the factory to your front porch? Are these wait times typical? This is my first experience ordering from China and I'm discovering that this requires a lot of patience...


If they have already been accepted at the "post office" in China, i would guess that you will have them by the end of next week. For me, the average is 2 to 3 weeks from the time of ordering. That being said, I've had as long as 4 weeks in shipment and a little as 8 days. Sooo, grab your popcorn, sit back, and relax.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

So anywhere from one week to a month of shipping time. I’m going to need a lot of popcorn...


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

Ordered a set of carbonfan wheels dec 30/17 arrived Jan 16/18. Now have over 2000 miles on them and feel they are one of the nicest wheelsets I have owned. Had Arthur build t800 28 wide 22 int 25 deep for wide tires on my crux. Weight was 556 front 656 rear. Wheels are still true no hops and are perfect on windy days. For comparison my wife and I also have roval clx 32s and just sold dt Swiss rc38c. All wheels are disc.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

The Boz said:


> So anywhere from one week to a month of shipping time. I'm going to need a lot of popcorn...


My wheels shipped on the 13th from XMCarbonspeed. The last update I have right on is that they Departed from export office in Xiamen on that same day. This is my first experience ordering from China. However, I am told it is typical that they will "disappear" for 1-2 weeks after they leave customs and the reappear in the US. I guess this is the time they spent on a boat.


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## iggs (Oct 18, 2007)

eb1888 said:


> This looks like a solid enduro oriented build. 3.5mm beads should be strong. The tires you like are old school originally designed for skinnier rims. Your build should work ok for them.
> If you picked higher volume more rounded profile tires you could go with a 35mm inner rim or wider
> _*depending on the tire*_ and the terrain you ride. Higher speeds from longer dh runs can mean less width and stronger sidewalls.


So my spokes and nipples have arrived. Rims are on their way










I've been messing with a wheel planning spreadsheet that helps with collating info when planning a build










I'm also going to build up a set for my wife's new Bronson since we have discovered we can't convert her Reynolds wheels to boost










Hubs, spokes and nipples are on their way. Plan to order the rims once I've given the ones on their way the once over

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## savechief (Jun 8, 2004)

Not for a mountain bike, but I'll share the build I just picked up from the Post Office that will be used on my Felt F3X cyclocross bike on the road.

Carbonfan.com rims (25mm deep, 25mm OW, 19.2mm IW, 350 grams)
DT Swiss 350 hubs (Centerlock, 15x100 front, 12x142 rear)
Sapim CX-Ray J-bend spokes
Sapim black brass nipples
SRAM XD Driver
28H, 2-cross lacing

Wheels were ordered on 3/17, first delivery attempt by the USPS was 4/21. I sent an email to carbonfan.com on 4/13 regarding the status of the order, and they replied on 4/14 letting me know that the wheels had shipped on 4/10. They were also nice enough to let me know that the individual rim weights (348.6 grams and 349.8 grams), along with the built wheels weights (646.2 grams front, 756.4 grams rear, 1402.6 grams total). On my scale, they're 647 grams front, 757 grams rear, 1404 grams total. 

Rim quality and build looks good to me. I'll ride them for a while and then will either check spoke tensions myself (Park tension meter) or take them to a local wheel builder to check out.

These are replacing the stock DT Swiss R24 wheelset that weights 1941 grams. All in all, will be a 537 gram (1.18 lb) reduction.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

For cheap rims I got a pair of the Nextie promotion rims for $255 shipped. 30mm inner, 450g each. Ordered some CN424 spokes. Not sure about hubs yet. I have an extra set of WI CLD+ hubs, but those seem too nice for a build like this.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Schulze said:


> For cheap rims I got a pair of the Nextie promotion rims for $255 shipped. 30mm inner, 450g each. Ordered some CN424 spokes. Not sure about hubs yet. I have an extra set of WI CLD+ hubs, but those seem too nice for a build like this.


How did you calculate spoke length not knowing what hubs you are using?


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Basically, there is very little difference in spoke lengths between different boost hubs. I order a little long then shorten the spoke if I need to. Bladed spokes like this can be shortened 10mm. Having a local guy with a Phil Wood machine makes wheel building a lot simpler.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Schulze said:


> Basically, there is very little difference in spoke lengths between different boost hubs. I order a little long then shorten the spoke if I need to. Bladed spokes like this can be shortened 10mm. Having a local guy with a Phil Wood machine makes wheel building a lot simpler.


Thanks.


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

Picked up my XM Carbonspeed wheels yesterday. They. Look. Amazing.

I did not spend too much time with them as I was in a rush, but inspecting them briefly they look perfect. They were very well packaged... the box even had a handle. Spoke tension seemed good just checking with my hands. It will probably be 2-3 weeks before I have tires and brakes on these things; but I am impressed with Peter's work.

For those that recommended him, thank you! For those that are sceptical, XM Carbonspeed is legit.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Little update on my Light-Bicycle carbon fiber rims, 4-1/2 years later, they're still like new, except for a few littles scratches from rocks. Granted I haven't rode them much since I bought them, but at least the shelf life is good, no resin breakdown or delaminating. These are the back then "new" hookless double wall 33mm wide 26" rims in 32h, without outer wall nipple hole drilling, not reinforced, in 3k matte finish. Ran them in winter on snow trails too.


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## iggs (Oct 18, 2007)

All the bits are here ready to start building tonight










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

I purchased from BTLOS. I will give a review when they arrive!


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## iggs (Oct 18, 2007)

Tooled up









Job done right









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

givemefive said:


> I purchased from BTLOS. I will give a review when they arrive!


I just posted a short status update on mine. I've laced up several sets now and have also been riding a personal set and I am thrilled.

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...priced-chinese-mfg-retail-option-1065277.html


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

My wheels from XMcarbonspeed are all built up and riding great. These are the 34mm inner asymmetric:

































I can't say much after only a few rides, but my local wheel builder was impressed with the build quality of the carbon rims. I'm predicting I'll be buying my rims direct from now on...


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

MI-XC said:


> I'm looking for carbon rims. I'm disappointed with my DT Swiss X1825 Spline wheelset weighing in at about 1690 grams with the DT Swiss 18T ratchet hub. I'm on a budget of about $1,000 +/-.
> 
> * Want to lose about 100g per wheel (be under or about 1500g total )
> * Weight 189 lbs (86 kg)
> ...


https://www.eiecarbon.com/A29C25D25...MTB-bike-carbon-rims-tubeless-compatible.html

If you haven't already settled this, a pair of these with the AM layup. I'd do either a 28H or 32H build with Sapim Race / DT Comp at your weight.

I'm surprised this brand doesn't get more attention here, they've got excellent options for almost every riding style.


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## Ritalalala (May 7, 2018)

A year ago I purchased a carbon wheel from ICAN and arrived in about two weeks.

Already used for one year, it always runs well.


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## ExhaustPipe (Aug 14, 2007)

alexdi said:


> https://www.eiecarbon.com/A29C25D25...MTB-bike-carbon-rims-tubeless-compatible.html
> 
> If you haven't already settled this, a pair of these with the AM layup. I'd do either a 28H or 32H build with Sapim Race / DT Comp at your weight.
> 
> I'm surprised this brand doesn't get more attention here, they've got excellent options for almost every riding style.


I bought a pair of EIE Carbon XC wheels about 1 month ago. Customer service has been outstanding! I dealt with Pretty for the whole transaction from initial email all the way to delivery. She kept me informed throughout the whole process and the wheels arrived in about 2 weeks from placing the order.

https://www.eiecarbon.com/carbon-rim-mountain-bike/asymmetrical--29er--XC/page/2.html

28H front and rear 
DT Swiss 240
Pillar Aero X-TRA 1420
Black Aluminum Nipples 
UD Matte No Decals 
Weight right at 1400g

I have just over 300 miles on the wheels with zero issues. I would definitely purchase from EIE again without question.


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

alexdi said:


> https://www.eiecarbon.com/A29C25D25...MTB-bike-carbon-rims-tubeless-compatible.html
> 
> If you haven't already settled this, a pair of these with the AM layup. I'd do either a 28H or 32H build with Sapim Race / DT Comp at your weight.
> 
> I'm surprised this brand doesn't get more attention here, they've got excellent options for almost every riding style.


This is about the same thing I got from http://www.btlos.com

They have good prices on hubs too so I had them build it all up with Sapim cx-rays and DT240s. Should be <1400g for a 25mm internal all mountain 25% T800 buildup.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

givemefive said:


> This is about the same thing I got from http://www.btlos.com


This rim is 390g, 25.5mm internal, with 8mm hooks in 29". The closest comparable I see on that site is 420g, 25mm internal, with 7mm hooks. Probably a fine rim, but not 'about the same' to me.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

alexdi said:


> This rim is 390g, 25.5mm internal, with 8mm hooks in 29". The closest comparable I see on that site is 420g, 25mm internal, with 7mm hooks. Probably a fine rim, but not 'about the same' to me.


One thing to note is the weight of the btlos is full T700 I believe. If you do a premium layup, they would be lighter. I like that btlos gives you the option of multiple layups. And I know their mfg processes are pretty advanced, and they test to international standards, where most factories in Xaimen likely do not.

Eie's do look nice. Hard not to when you knock off am enve and give it a little asym tweak. I'm sure they are nice also. Do you have these in hand yet? I'd love to see actual pics of these!


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

alexdi said:


> This rim is 390g, 25.5mm internal, with 8mm hooks in 29". The closest comparable I see on that site is 420g, 25mm internal, with 7mm hooks. Probably a fine rim, but not 'about the same' to me.


The premium layup is 390g 26.5 internal width - that is 25% T800 I believe. So yes a little different and also $40 more.


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## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

*Light/Boutique Hubs*

I have only found a few references to lighter/boutique hubs like Extralite, Tune, and Carbon-ti on this thread...but no run-down of which places offer which of these hub options, at what prices...I don't see these hubs listed on websites, but imagine that a number of places can still get them...

Right now, I'm leaning toward the lightest options from either Nextie, or xmcarbonspeed for a 28-30mm internal width 29er rim, but want to go all out with lighter hubs as well...

What are other's finding???


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

You can find most of those hubs on German sites.
For example: https://r2-bike.com/
There are other sites, but that site in specific has all the three brands you mentioned, plus they usually have a picture with the component on a scale.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

IPA Rider said:


> but want to go all out with lighter hubs as well... What are other's finding???


I too am just planning a lightweight carbon build. I've used Extralite, Tune and DT Swiss for previous wheelbuilds. Haven't used Carbon-Ti hubs though. Tune make good hubs but the ti pawls will wear and then freehub will crack after extensive use and require replacement. Tune freehubs are not cheap.

Extralite will be the lightest, but I'm not convinced on how much punishment their rear hub engagement mechanisms can take. For this reason, I think I will go for an Extralite front hub and DT Swiss 240s rear. The 240s is the heaviest of the lightweight rear hubs but they are rock solid performers and spare parts/freehubs are not too expensive and readily available.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

^ You also have the DT Swiss 180.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

True, but they only come in centrelock. Their weight savings are pretty much negated once you use a heavier centrelock disc or 6-bolt adapter.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

The Newmen Evolution SL has my attention. 

Check them out. 6 bolt and CL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

Getting the hubs isn't so much the question...it is whether/how/at what price you can get them from (and built up by) the more popular asian sources of carbon rims that have been discussed in this thread


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## xblitzkriegx (Jul 29, 2016)

ExhaustPipe said:


> I bought a pair of EIE Carbon XC wheels about 1 month ago. Customer service has been outstanding! I dealt with Pretty for the whole transaction from initial email all the way to delivery. She kept me informed throughout the whole process and the wheels arrived in about 2 weeks from placing the order.
> 
> https://www.eiecarbon.com/carbon-rim-mountain-bike/asymmetrical--29er--XC/page/2.html
> 
> ...


i too purchased wheels from EIE. i bought plus wheels, i38 with dt350 hubs, bladed pillar spokes, and brass nipples.

they made a mistake when building them but caught it at the factory. it added about a week to my order time but they included valve stems for free and apologized profusely.

i would still buy from them again given the customer service i received (numerous detailed emails WITH build pics) and quality work. the spoke tension was extremely close.

EIE is definitely a place to consider imo.


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

IPA Rider said:


> Getting the hubs isn't so much the question...it is whether/how/at what price you can get them from (and built up by) the more popular asian sources of carbon rims that have been discussed in this thread


If you don't choose to build them yourself or locally. You may be able to ship the hubs directly to China. I know BTLOS accepts hubs for builds. Also you can give them your hub specs and they will drill the holes to match the spoke angle.

The price on DT hubs was great so I just bought from them.


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

Just came in


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

givemefive said:


> Just came in


No image shows.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Another option is Oxive. I'm testing these rims and built them up on DT180/240 with Laser spokes. Wanted to try something lighter for XC racing:


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## Vortex070 (May 29, 2017)

Prompt please, Peter with xmcarbonspeed.com generally responds to e-mail? Wrote yesterday on 3 mails listed on the site, until silence.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Vortex070 said:


> Prompt please, Peter with xmcarbonspeed.com generally responds to e-mail? Wrote yesterday on 3 mails listed on the site, until silence.


Yes. I generally get a response within 24 hours. There is a 12 hour time difference (east coast) so that lags things a bit.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

I have not read through this thread in its entirety, but I have 350 miles of tough XC riding on my $750 Speedsafe 29er pair (24mm wide) laced to boost DT 350s with Pillar Xtra-Aero spokes, set weighs 1280g.

They have handled awful rock knocks, multiple 5 foot drops, rutted trails, and I haven't had a flat yet (unusual for me).

I ordered from Aliexpress and got within 2 weeks, very fast, awesome customer service.

Speedsafe stocks Novatec, Powerway, Chosen, DT 350, DT 240, and even HyperBoost hubs.















Sorry I don't have a pic of just the wheels, but they are trued and tensioned excellently and have done the job without getting noticed. Tubeless setup has been a breeze, some rims are really tough to get tires on and off, not a problem with these.

I also have several 27.5er Speedsafe XC rims and nothing beats their weight that I'm aware of at 290g/rim.

If buying from Speedsafe I recommend contacting them via Aliexpress to get your build customized to just how you like it.

I also have bought wheels from export companies (ICAN and Angle Sports), but generally find that these are more expensive than the companies that specialize in just wheels (like Speedsafe).

I'll do a long-term review next season after a few thousand miles, but so far I'm very impressed.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

IPA Rider said:


> I have only found a few references to lighter/boutique hubs like Extralite, Tune, and Carbon-ti on this thread...but no run-down of which places offer which of these hub options, at what prices...I don't see these hubs listed on websites, but imagine that a number of places can still get them...
> 
> Right now, I'm leaning toward the lightest options from either Nextie, or xmcarbonspeed for a 28-30mm internal width 29er rim, but want to go all out with lighter hubs as well...
> 
> What are other's finding???


Here is a 1150g pair laced to Extralite Hyperboost hubs, a bit expensive though:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/115...-wheels-Extralite-HyperBoost/32879522592.html

Here's a 1160g lefty-specific pair, more affordable, I highly recommend this vendor:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/116...-29-carbon-bike-wheelset-28H/32844387883.html

You might contact them to see if they can do a normal front hub.

But for $250 less and 1220g/set with DT240s, this would be my goto:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/122...carbon-bike-wheelset-6-bolts/32846236407.html

Again I'd contact them and see what you can negotiate. If they stock Hyperboost hubs, they can probably build what you're looking for.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

I am looking at the SpeedSafe hubs. Look interesting. I have a pair of hoops that I need to lace up, but there seems to no info on these hubs besides what is on AlieExpress.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Ottoreni said:


> I am looking at the SpeedSafe hubs. Look interesting. I have a pair of hoops that I need to lace up, but there seems to no info on these hubs besides what is on AlieExpress.


SpeedSafe hubs? Where are you seeing that? I'm guessing they are just rebranded (lasered) Powerway or Novatec.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

Here they are...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TOP...60-tooth-front-15x110mm-rear/32833909765.html

it seems they are made by Bitranz...but that is the only information that I have been able to find. I like that they are Boost and seem to have decent engagement...the big question is reliability...


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Very interesting, thanks for sharing! The price is high for a Chinese reseller, I am not aware of a single hub that costs more than $100 to manufacture. OEM stuff from Chinese sellers usually comes with less than 20% markup. For instance, I've ordered 20 sets of hubs from ECC-Tech with Japanese bearings, CNC machined, anodized, lasered and all, for $50/pair, $80/pair for a new prototype magnetic pawl system. They also sell boost, but you can't get them in one-off batches. Brickhouse and some other brands use ECC-Tech as well and then mark up like crazy. $190 seems like a lot of money for a pair of hubs when a Chinese reseller has them advertised--or maybe they really are that good and expensive to make?

The distinctive characteristic that I can see on these hubs is the angled/bevelled straight-pull sockets, I don't recall another hub with that design. There definitely is attention to aesthetic detail, but I have no clue about longevity of the internals.

Is Bitranz a manufacturer? I thought it was a distributor company for some hub brands.


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

btlos is having a promo.

spin a wheel and get a chance to win free rims or another item or discount

https://btlos.com/

here's some of the codes I won if you guys wanna use:

prize - deadline - code

5% Off	2018-06-27 08:38:18	395b1fcccab6f2a
5% Off	2018-06-27 08:38:09	385b1fccc1500c4
Elite Fly Team Sports Water Bottle	2018-06-27 08:37:51	375b1fccafcb0a4
Bicycle Taillights	2018-06-27 08:37:31	365b1fcc9b10082
8% Off	2018-06-27 08:37:09	355b1fcc85714ec
5% Off	2018-06-26 22:30:58	2d5b1f3e721667e

my wheels are great so far..


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## Giedrius (Jun 15, 2018)

I'm currently building full suspension 29+ 1kW ebike with Rohloff hub at Biktrix and trying to choose as bombproof and maintenance free wheels as possible without braking the bank and need your advice.

Looking at LightBicycle, XMC and Nextie.

LB responded right away and offered to do a thicker wall of the rim and drill spoke holes at the right angle if necessary. Lip thickness of their rim is 2.5mm, rim height 22mm.

XMC hasn't responded yet, their lip thickness is 2.6mm, rim height 30mm and rim a bit heavier than LB (525g vs 490g). I wonder if higher and heavier XMC rim will be stronger than LB? If LB will do thicker rim wall and leave the rim height at 22mm, how that will compare strengthwise to 30mm high XMC?

Nextie is a bit heavier than XMC with a lip thickness of 3.5mm (outside width 52mm while inside is the same at 45mm), height 34mm and 160kg weight rating looks strongest of them all.

Price wise XMC are the cheapest at $165, then goes LB at $210 (don't know yet how much they will ask for the thicker wall) and Nextie at $215, all charge about $50 for shipment to the US.

How do you think they compare and what are the most important parameters to look at? Thanks a lot for the advices!


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

A 30mm high XMC would be laterally stronger than a 22mm LightBicycle rim, that's just because of the amount of carbon fiber pushing against the normal force.

Also, LightBicycle has a reputation (as far as I am aware) of having cracked rims. I don't know about XMC, but you might want to read the forums on LB a bit.

I would definitely try do 32 holes if you can, make sure you use tough spokes (DT Competition or similar), and remember it's not all about your rims.


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## Giedrius (Jun 15, 2018)

Thanks for the response, I'll definitely ask Biktrix to use tought spokes. So it looks like I'm thinking right that Nextie will be the strongest?


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

Has anyone tried these rims?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/light-weig...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

And if so, what were your impressions, did they build up OK? Are the spoke holes angled?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

epiphreddy said:


> Has anyone tried these rims?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/light-weig...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> And if so, what were your impressions, did they build up OK? Are the spoke holes angled?


From their specs.

"Axial Direction Angle: 6 Degrees"


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I bought two of these rims and will be building them up soon once my hubs and spokes arrive. If the spoke holes are angled, shouldn't they once installed angle one way or another? I installed a few spokes and looks to me they point straight down. Am I missing something?


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Often it is hard to see which way the holes are drilled. If you put in two spokes and let them hang free from nipples sometimes you can see. Then put a tape or sharpie mark on the rim.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

epiphreddy said:


> I bought two of these rims and will be building them up soon once my hubs and spokes arrive. If the spoke holes are angled, shouldn't they once installed angle one way or another? I installed a few spokes and looks to me they point straight down. Am I missing something?


Thats why some rims have a sticker that identifies the direction of one hole, the rest you can deduct from there. Check the stickers on your rim, you might get lucky and its there.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Insert spoke and nip. Push left, push right. Which side does the spoke move more freely/extremely? That's usually my test.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

On my Carbon fan rims, I couldn't see the angle until I put a close fitting drill into the nipple hole itself, then it was obvious. The clearance holes in the rim bed were all in line and did not reflect the angled nipple holes.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Lone Rager said:


> On my Carbon fan rims, I couldn't see the angle until I put a close fitting drill into the nipple hole itself, then it was obvious. The clearance holes in the rim bed were all in line and did not reflect the angled nipple holes.


At least they were inline. Nextie used to do offset rim's with spokes offset and then the holes on the other side centerline. Took quite a bit of explaining for them to change it.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

The Carbon Fan rims I got were also offset. The holes in the rim bed were appropriately offset too, just not staggered to reflect the nipple hole angles, as they would be if drilled in a single operation with the nipple holes, which, I believe, is the typical method. I figured they drilled the rim bed holes first and then followed up doing the angled nipple hole and seats.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

For those looking for a bargain, BTLOS has a 15% off coupon (IND15)for the next couple of days.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

wayold said:


> For those looking for a bargain, BTLOS has a 15% off coupon (IND15)for the next couple of days.


Total cost with that coupon works out the same as Yishun, EIE, and a number of other makes.


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

alexdi said:


> Total cost with that coupon works out the same as Yishun, EIE, and a number of other makes.


You're looking at the premium series which has a 3.5 year warranty vs 1 year for EIE.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

givemefive said:


> You're looking at the premium series which has a 3.5 year warranty vs 1 year for EIE.


The BTLOS rims are great. I've been absolutely flogging my 36mm Premium rims, jumps, large drops, rocks and roots, and they haven't wavered. I've also laced a set for a guy who rides fast/hard on a small travel bike, and is 270lbs with gear. He has so far managed to absoluely destroy a dt350 rear hub, but the wheels were still perfectly true. Relaxed the wheel for him, good to go. He has had them since February.

Lily at BTLOS is pretty great to deal with, they provide excellent support. Which is why I use them when people want more affordable carbon wheel builds.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Can someone explain how they make a smooth bed rim? When a nipple cracks how do I replace it. I used to almost always get heavy Mavic 819, 821, 823 etc because I loved the smooth bed and they were bombproof. I still had nipples crack eventually and they were easy to replace. I suppose someone could slide nipple into valve stem hole and use a vacuum. Seems a big pain though.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

sxotty said:


> Can someone explain how they make a smooth bed rim? When a nipple cracks how do I replace it. I used to almost always get heavy Mavic 819, 821, 823 etc because I loved the smooth bed and they were bombproof. I still had nipples crack eventually and they were easy to replace. I suppose someone could slide nipple into valve stem hole and use a vacuum. Seems a big pain though.


Screw a cut spoke end into zee nipple use a magnet to fish it thru. One can also use string to make it go faster. There are spoke end products with bigger ends, better for magnet use as well.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

^that.
It take some extra time to lace a wheel, but once you get the hang of it, you will be doing it while seeing TV or talking to your friends with no problem.
I use a magnet and a small screw.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

The fun with spoke hole angle really starts when you are building a rear wheel and you want your drive side elbow out spokes to be trailing, your hub logo to line up with the valve core, and the valve core between parallel spokes.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

givemefive said:


> You're looking at the premium series which has a 3.5 year warranty vs 1 year for EIE.


I just want to give cred to EIE. I have i34 AM wheels. They are super heavy duty. I broke a rim and got a crash replacement even though the damage was not any manufacturing error just a very unfortunate accident. If I ordered today I would easily have picked a superlight i30.5 rim with lighter spokes and hubs, but I was a bit concerned they would not be strong enough.


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## OregonXC (Sep 1, 2004)

I won't do business with nextie anymore. Have purchased several rims from them no problem. One set developed cracks at the rim holes in several places on both rims. ~100 Kgf tension (i have pics). Contacted them - they said ok. Ordered replacements - need for a trip. A few days later the person that said ok to the replacement was out of the picture (Sophie). Replaced by someone calling themself (Brian). He paypal'd a refund of $85 for rims that were about $275 or so. Shady. never responded again


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

OregonXC said:


> I won't do business with nextie anymore. Have purchased several rims from them no problem. One set developed cracks at the rim holes in several places on both rims. ~100 Kgf tension (i have pics). Contacted them - they said ok. Ordered replacements - need for a trip. A few days later the person that said ok to the replacement was out of the picture (Sophie). Replaced by someone calling themself (Brian). He paypal'd a refund of $85 for rims that were about $275 or so. Shady. never responded again


I didn't get a good vibe from Nextie.

BTLOS has been by far the best of the lot for me, and I have tried a bunch. Amazing service, and quality as good as anything with a big brand name.

I've started building with nipple washers also, after some discussion with one very experienced builder after some nipple bed/spoke hole deformation at 110kgf on some very expensive brand name carbon rims. Carbon rims are the weakest at the spoke hole, and it makes sense eotnme to use a washer. Might be worth considering on your next set?


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

I want to spotlight a couple of new rims from EIE:

https://www.eiecarbon.com/A29C23D19...-hookless-MTB-carbon-tubeless-compatible.html

23.5 / 30.5 / 300g

https://www.eiecarbon.com/A29C25D25...MTB-bike-carbon-rims-tubeless-compatible.html

25.5 / 33.5 / 340g

https://www.eiecarbon.com/A29C30D28...-hookless-MTB-carbon-tubeless-compatible.html

30.5 / 38.5 / 360g

I *really* like this rim profile. Thick, blunted bead walls for better impact and pinch-flat resistance, asymmetric, and relatively low-profile to keep the weight down. It's similar (and IMO, superior) to Enve's new design. I've linked the ultralight layups, though they've also got a standard XC layup that's 20g heavier and $40 less per rim.

I'm tempted to build a new wheelset just to give them a go, it's been all grins for over a thousand miles on my existing set.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

30.5 is not wide enough inner for 2.35 or 2.6 29 tires I ride from Bontrager. I would need 35 and 40 inner. 
But I like the profile and weight.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

For 165 to 205 a rim, I'd give eie a try. They aren't trying to charge me $15 more per rim to have no decal like Carbonfan, which is nice. 

So far I've built up 3 wheelsets on the Nextie sale rims for $250 a set and haven't had any problems. How far can I go rolling the dice like this? It's fun.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

eb1888 said:


> 30.5 is not wide enough inner for 2.35 or 2.6 29 tires I ride from Bontrager. I would need 35 and 40 inner.
> But I like the profile and weight.


I think 30.5 is enough for 2.35. Ideal, even, IME. But check back later if you disagree; the 30.5 wasn't listed a month ago, they may well have a wider version of same in the pipeline.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

alexdi said:


> I think 30.5 is enough for 2.35. Ideal, even, IME. But check back later if you disagree; the 30.5 wasn't listed a month ago, they may well have a wider version of same in the pipeline.


I would run my 2.6 on i30.5. I think it is perfect. Both Enve and Maxxis recommend i30-35 for 2.5 WT and 2.6.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

H-akka said:


> I would run my 2.6 on i30.5. I think it is perfect. Both Enve and Maxxis recommend i30-35 for 2.5 WT and 2.6.


Bontrager's 2.35 is a special case. It's an oversized Goma-class tire closer to 2.5". There's an argument for running that one up to i35, though it's hardly underperforming at i30.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

alexdi said:


> Bontrager's 2.35 is a special case. It's an oversized Goma-class tire closer to 2.5". There's an argument for running that one up to i35, though it's hardly underperforming at i30.


Ok, I didn't know about that one. I run 2.5 DHF and 2.6 Rekon on i34. I think they work just fine with anything 29-35. I have tried both on my alu i29 and it no problem, tho i30.5 is probably better.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

I have been using a wheelset I bought from EIE and have nothing but positive things to say so far.
Rims:A29C30D28 AM,UD,Matte,32H,NO decals 2PCS
HubsT Swiss 350S BOOST(Front:15*110mm,Rear:12*148mm） ,SRAM XX1,6-bolt
Spokes:black,DT Swiss Competition
Nipple:Black Brass

That was what I ordered, they arrived safely boxed up in a few weeks. I taped them up and have a DHF EXO 2.5 front and a Chunky Monkey 2.4 on the rear with cushcore. Tyres went on easy enough (even with the cushcore), inflated first time and I've been running about 20psi front and rear with zero issues. I put them straight onto my new bike and have never run carbon wheels before. This bike is also coil front and rear and is pretty incredible anyway so until I go back to the oem alloy DT Swiss wheels I guess I can't really comment on how good or bad the wheels are in use.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

alexdi said:


> Bontrager's 2.35 is a special case. It's an oversized Goma-class tire closer to 2.5". There's an argument for running that one up to i35, though it's hardly underperforming at i30.


Bontragers are designed for wide rims by Frank Stacy Testing. They'll give the best performance on wider rims at low psi, but you can run them on skinnier rims by adding some pressure and giving up some of the bigger footprint you would get. If you're building a new wheelset of course go for the size that gives you the most performance. The XRs have flexible sidewalls and light weight. So not for high speed runs through sidewall cutting shale. But a good tire on the right terrain.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm running XR4 2.4 and XR3 2.3 on 27mm inner and it's just fine.

Also ran them 29mm inner, also fine.


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## Henrik J (Apr 15, 2011)

Hi

Is there someone who have some experience with the XC rim (XM930) from Carbonal ?? I think both in terms of the rim itself and the service when ordering.


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## Fat29Tire (Jan 15, 2004)

Advice for a 650B plus build from BTLOS?

First thanks to all the posters for the education and experience with the different companies, very valuable for a newbie to China carbon build.

I have a Specialized Stumpy FSR 6fattie and i toasted the crap Roval/DT rear hub so that's what brought me here.

I weight 190+ and ride New England roots rocks raggae in a cross country style, very few drops or hits.

The Rovals were only i28 and I was riding 3.0" nobby nics.

I am considering an i35-i40 (if they have) laced to a DT350 with ratchet upgrade.

I haven't a clue on assymetrical vs inline construction so could use some pointers there (didn't find a good explanation yet but there's sort of a few posts to look thru)

For bomb-proofing was going to go with 32h on rear and brass nipples, need help with spoke recommends as I've popped about 10 on that Roval wheel I'm trashing.

Also not married to the DT350 but need boost, iso and sram XD features.

Thank you wheel experts for taking the time to reply to me.

Steve from NH

Update, here is what I have selected from their website so far
Premium WM-i34, 32h, 650b, AM version?, matte, 3k weave
DT350 w/36t ratchet upgrade RED SRAM XD 6bolt iso
Sapim Race spokes, j-bend
Red decals

Tear me up!


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## noremorse1 (Jul 17, 2016)

Fat29Tire said:


> Advice for a 650B plus build from BTLOS?
> 
> First thanks to all the posters for the education and experience with the different companies, very valuable for a newbie to China carbon build.
> 
> ...


Go with XM carbonspeed. I had Peter from their build me a wheelset a few months back and they are VERY good. They are also a lot cheaper than the other good ones. Search this thread for others who have reviewed XM Carbonspeed and Peter. All good.

I would recommend this wheel with the DT 350: 27.5er AM mtb bike wheels carbon clincher
Spring for the 54t ratchet upgrade. It is way better than the 36t.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Heya Fat29Tire, I have a pair of BTLOS I34 DH rims laced to Chris King iso hubs using dt swiss competition 2.0-1.8 double butted spokes. I use brass nipples from dt swiss to prevent corrosion giving a longer life. The wheels are bomb proof and relatively light. The surface is perfect and looks really good. My rim is 34 internal, 40 external and 31.5 deep. I got the DH spec with the premium option. The people from BTLOS helped me tons in choosing the right rim for my riding style. I am 160 lbs and I have these wheels on a 160mm banshee rune. Love them and I would definatley buy from BTLOS again due to their amazing customer service and their dedication to help me. I am not running plus tires though, I am running maxxis 2.5 wide trail, ask the people at BTLOS what kind of rim would be perfect for you. Good Luck!


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Fat29Tire, after some research I have found these two wheel options from BTLOS for you. The WM-I39A is asymetric with 39mm inner 
https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/asymmetric-hand-built-plus-bike-carbon-bike-wheelset
I also found out that the rims I use, the i34s are also great for plus bikes, altho these are not asym 
https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/34mm-internal-mountain-bike-downhill-carbon-wheelset
For your weight, Sapim race sound good because they are bombproof altho a bit heavier than the D lights. for the engagement question, unless it is too expensive, go with the 54t it makes a huge difference and you would tottally love the close to instant engagement.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

I have the same bike and run 29:ers with 2.6 now. Much nicer imo. But that's perhaps not what you want to hear. I went with EIE and i34. If you want to run Purgatory/Butcher 3.0 I'd go with at least i34 assym. Perhaps these http://www.eiecarbon.com/carbon-rim-mountain-bike/--650B--PLUS


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## Fat29Tire (Jan 15, 2004)

Thank you H-akka.
What do you find nicer about 2.5 29?
Why assym geometry, what is advantage?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Assym allows the drive and non-drive spokes to have a similar angle improving strength. I run assym on 3 sets of carbon wheels...it's just a better design.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Fat29Tire (Jan 15, 2004)

xyzwheels said:


> FREE SHIPPING 26" / 27.5" / 29" MTB CARBON 6 SPOKE WHEEL SET, ONLY 999USD PER PAIR NOW. If you interesting in carbon fiber bike rim & wheels, welcome to leave a message, hope we can give you a best products.
> 
> #xyz #xyzwheels ##xyzcarbontechnology #customwheels #cyclingworld


Hey XYZ, this is not a place for your advertising. Companies pay for advertising you see in the columns to the left. Surprised you are not yet banned.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

So, how do folks here choose their wheel/rim source? In this thread there have been mostly favorable reviews of Light Bicycle, CarbonFan, XMCarbonspeed, BTLOS and several others. There are some differences in rim profiles offered and the newer brands seem to offer a bit lower prices. Are these the main bases of everyone's choice or, if not, what other factors do you use?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

wayold said:


> So, how do folks here choose their wheel/rim source? In this thread there have been mostly favorable reviews of Light Bicycle, CarbonFan, XMCarbonspeed, BTLOS and several others. There are some differences in rim profiles offered and the newer brands seem to offer a bit lower prices. Are these the main bases of everyone's choice or, if not, what other factors do you use?


I look to see what other people have had positive experiences with and what seems to be the most legitimate/going to be around for a few years-company. Nextie and Light Bicycle are probably the two biggest right now. There are a bunch of others though that also make a decent product. Oxive gave me a set of rims to test out and they worked beautifully for their intended purpose this race season. They are definitely legitimate and want to put out a good product. T800 is a bit better than T700 layups, but T700 is usually more cost-effective. You choose the internal width that suits you best. If you are using older 142 hubs then asymmetrical rims may be something to look into as well.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Here are my BTLOS 34mm rims on king hubs, Banshee Rune 2018. Love the rims! I laced them myself and it was a pleasure.


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## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

dirtyjack said:


> Since I don't see too many long-term reviews, I thought I would post an update on my experience with Light Bicycle rims.
> 
> After almost 3 years or abusing these wheels, I've probably replaced 2 or 3 spokes on the rear wheel, and can't honestly remember having to true them other than when replacing spokes. My shop owner was on the fence about using the CX-Ray's, he thought they might be too stiff, but I'm happy with that choice. The rims are sporting lots of external scratches, but no signs of stress or cracks anywhere. I only wish I had gone directly to a 30mm internal width rim rather than the 25's, but other than that I've been very pleased with the rims and the wheels that my LBS built up.
> 
> I'm 170lb and not a huckster, but I do love pounding through the chunk on my Tallboy.


Now 5 years in with my Light-Bicycle carbon rims, I've rebuilt the rear wheel with Force after snapping one too many CX-ray's. The front wheel is still the original build. Both rims are still intact, despite the pounding they've taken.
Still a happy customer!


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

alexdi said:


> 30.5 / 38.5 / 360g
> 
> I *really* like this rim profile. Thick, blunted bead walls for better impact and pinch-flat resistance, asymmetric, and relatively low-profile to keep the weight down. It's similar (and IMO, superior) to Enve's new design. I've linked the ultralight layups, though they've also got a standard XC layup that's 20g heavier and $40 less per rim.


Since my rims don't lead a hard life(rough terrain, but no jumps or drops >2ft, no rim strikes, and no damage to my al wheels), I'm semi-interested in their T800 blend in this or the 35mm/i29 rim. At least for the front. 
Having no experience with carbon rims, I'm not sure how much rim I actually need, though. I'm wary of putting too much emphasis on weight, and going "stupid light" over 40g per rim.
They're so close together...what I'd really like to know is how these 360g T800 mix rims stack up with the 380g XC and 400g AM versions. Or, perhaps more importantly, with al rims like my Flow Mk3 front/ Arch Mk3 rear, which are perfectly adequate for my needs, but significantly heavier at ~990g for the combo.
Right now, I'm leaning toward the 40mm/i34 for the front and 35mm/i29 rear, which would make this a moot point for me, but I'm still curious.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

OwenM said:


> Since my rims don't lead a hard life(rough terrain, but no jumps or drops >2ft, no rim strikes, and no damage to my al wheels), I'm semi-interested in their T800 blend in this or the 35mm/i29 rim. At least for the front.
> Having no experience with carbon rims, I'm not sure how much rim I actually need, though. I'm wary of putting too much emphasis on weight, and going "stupid light" over 40g per rim.
> They're so close together...what I'd really like to know is how these 360g T800 mix rims stack up with the 380g XC and 400g AM versions. Or, perhaps more importantly, with al rims like my Flow Mk3 front/ Arch Mk3 rear, which are perfectly adequate for my needs, but significantly heavier at ~990g for the combo.
> Right now, I'm leaning toward the 40mm/i34 for the front and 35mm/i29 rear, which would make this a moot point for me, but I'm still curious.


I have EIE i34 AM 32/32 and the are super heavy duty. I would say you would't need that for your riding. Unless you are going to run 2.8 or more front I would go i29 28/28 or 30.5 28/28.


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## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

Lat time I did carbon wheels, I ordered the rims, spokes and hub separately. I was concerned about having the factory in China build my wheels with a sight-unseen hub. Frankly, when it comes to things like hubs and china, I'm too worried about fake stuff.

Is this an unfounded concern?


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

McGG said:


> Lat time I did carbon wheels, I ordered the rims, spokes and hub separately. I was concerned about having the factory in China build my wheels with a sight-unseen hub. Frankly, when it comes to things like hubs and china, I'm too worried about fake stuff.
> 
> Is this an unfounded concern?


Other people can correct me if they want, but this is my opinion. Chinese companies that sell lots of wheels and are discussed on these forums are generally as trusty as your LBS. If it's a DT 350 hub, it's authentic. I have several wheelsets built up by Chinese sellers with DT Swiss hubs, Pillar spokes, and house-brand carbon rims and they are all great. No bad experiences yet!

Stay away from Novatec and Powerway if you want your wheel to last a long time. These hubs are cheap, but I've broken every pair I owned. Where it gets interesting is when these companies come up with their own hubs (i.e. Speedsafe hubs) and you don't really know what's inside. Koozer hubs are another example, basically a knock-off of Hope with half of the technology, and they happen to break more easily. The same factory that makes Koozer (ECC Tech), however, also makes some great hubs, and you just don't know who slapped their logo on last (Salsa "Brickhouse" and HED come to mind)


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## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

Okay guys, I'm trying to decide between two wheels:

1. The new AM930 from LB










and

2. The XY series, T800 from CarbonFan










The Carbonfans are about $100 cheaper per rim than the LBs.

I weigh about 230lbs without gear (yikes!), so I'm leaning towards the Carbonfan ones.

My LBS is going to lace the wheels for me to Onyx hubs.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

McGG said:


> Okay guys, I'm trying to decide between two wheels:
> 
> 1. The new AM930 from LB
> 
> ...


I don't know much about those specific rims, but assymetric is a big selling point, especially if you are stressing the wheels a lot. Also since the AM version of XY is only 20g more than XC, definitely go with that if you buy XY


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## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

I didn't get responses over on Wheels & Tires BTLOS thread...so here it is again...

I can't find any BTLOS rims that match the lighter weights of those from Nextie (their ultralights, which use T1000) (note the 34mm is external):

https://www.nextie.net/ultralight-mo...34mm-NXT29UL34

or these from eie carbon:

super light 29er 34mm wide MTB hookless tubeless compatible carbon rims

or these from Carbonfan...

https://www.carbonfan.com/t800-tubel...28mm-33mm-35mm

I'm looking for i25-i30 (I think 27-28mm would be ideal) that are at most 360g for i30, and less than that for narrower rims. Am I missing something from BTLOS???


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Just wanted to pitch in my experience with the cheapest set of carbon 29er rims available online right now:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2Pc...-carbon-fibre-bicycle-wheels/32318352290.html

It's $182 USD incl. shipping for me in the United States for a pair of these. I got them on an Aliexpress sale almost 6 months ago for $160, I expect Christmas sales to lower the price as well. They weigh 425g each. I had Velocity USA build up a pair and have about 600 miles on my gravel bike so far. I've done about 50 miles of singletrack as well which wasn't easy on them considering the Maxxis Rambler 700x38Cs I'm running and my brutal riding style. They took a lot of knocks.

They have handled everything very well, I did have to true the rear wheel after about 400 miles. I get a sense that the rims are bit stiffer than the ultralight Speedsafe rims I also have, but I like them and for the price they have been excellent. I also had two instances where sharp rocks gouged into my tire sidewalls, letting out a bunch of air, but in both cases the tires sealed up again, thanks in part to the tall sidewalls on these rims.

I have another set of these rims I'll be building up. The deal was too good at the time not to buy two sets.

I haven't taken pics of just the wheelset, but bike pics are here: ICAN GRA02 Gravel Bike Frame - The Riding Gravel Forum


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

McGG said:


> Okay guys, I'm trying to decide between two wheels:
> 
> 1. The new AM930 from LB
> 
> ...


Wow buddy I don't know how you're built but sounds like you need to shred some trails long and hard and leave some stuff out there! If I were you I'd stay with stiff carbon fiber (T700). IMHO LightBicycle is overpriced. The only time I'd use them is when they have something nobody else has (i.e. 27.5er fat 75mm carbon rims). Their quality really isn't much better than anybody else--there's lots of people who have had issues, even though it may not happen that often. They are better at marketing and have built a more robust brand identity, hence the bigger markup.

I'd do the Carbonfans. If you're sold on Onyx hubs that's the best way to go, but sometimes you can save a bit by getting the build done in China just because their labor rates are super low and they often let you in on dealer pricing for the hubs.


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## McGG (Apr 28, 2014)

sissypants said:


> Wow buddy I don't know how you're built but sounds like you need to shred some trails long and hard and leave some stuff out there! If I were you I'd stay with stiff carbon fiber (T700). IMHO LightBicycle is overpriced. The only time I'd use them is when they have something nobody else has (i.e. 27.5er fat 75mm carbon rims). Their quality really isn't much better than anybody else--there's lots of people who have had issues, even though it may not happen that often. They are better at marketing and have built a more robust brand identity, hence the bigger markup.
> 
> I'd do the Carbonfans. If you're sold on Onyx hubs that's the best way to go, but sometimes you can save a bit by getting the build done in China just because their labor rates are super low and they often let you in on dealer pricing for the hubs.


indeed...I should probably be walking around at about 205-2010.

I like pastries.

I think I'll get the CarbonFan ones, but with WWC and other discount parts places, I can get hubs for a reasonable deal, and then get LBS to lace them up. Just looking at pricing of built chinese vs just rims, it doesn't seem like they give you much of a deal on labor or hubs.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

McGG said:


> indeed...I should probably be walking around at about 205-2010.
> 
> I like pastries.
> 
> I think I'll get the CarbonFan ones, but with WWC and other discount parts places, I can get hubs for a reasonable deal, and then get LBS to lace them up. Just looking at pricing of built chinese vs just rims, it doesn't seem like they give you much of a deal on labor or hubs.


You can reach out to individual suppliers on Aliexpress and ask to do it by PayPal via email. They will usually knock 10% because they don't have to pay seller fees. The difference isn't huge though. You've gotta go with low-margin suppliers though like Elite, Speedsafe, or a company like XMCarbonSpeed, Hongfu, etc. I do support local brick-and-mortar when I can't get a good deal out of china though.


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## n1cholasj (Nov 23, 2017)

Is anyone using rims with t800 for anything more than xc racing?


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

n1cholasj said:


> Is anyone using rims with t800 for anything more than xc racing?


I use T800 rims for everything. Why not?


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## n1cholasj (Nov 23, 2017)

All the companies list them for “XC” use. I’m a 200lb dude - Trying to avoid under rimming myself


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

n1cholasj said:


> All the companies list them for "XC" use. I'm a 200lb dude - Trying to avoid under rimming myself


Just to set the record straight, the tensile strength of T800 fiber is more than 10% greater than T700, the strength under compression is a little greater than T700, it's lighter, and it has a faster return response reaction. It's more expensive, but it's kind of a standard in the high-end chiner rim market.

At 200 lbs I don't think you'd need to worry too much about under-rimming yourself--just don't get the lightest rims out there. Try to go about 350 grams or heavier for a 29er rim. I recommend buying from manufacturers that use monocoque layup, like Light Bicycle or Speedsafe (on aliexpress). These will be much stronger than rims with two or three seams.

The real-world difference between T700 vs. T800 is so nuanced you'd never know the difference on the trail when double-blinded, maybe unless you're a Pinkbike reviewer.

Edit: A few posts back I recommended someone who was really heavy to stay with T700 carbon fiber. That's not because I thought it was a better material, but because these wheels generally have many more layers of carbon fiber and are not inspired to satisfy the weight weenie populace. They are also slightly cheaper.


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## n1cholasj (Nov 23, 2017)

https://www.oxivecarbon.com/product...ight-270g-free-shipping?variant=5692939927579

I'm thinking of this for the rear and the i30 for the front. About 400 shipped for the pair, both sub 400g. They'd get used for xc-trail and occasional "enduro" trails. Maybe some enduro racing? Maybe I'm expexting too much out of these.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

sissypants said:


> Just to set the record straight, the tensile strength of T800 fiber is more than 10% greater than T700, the strength under compression is a little greater than T700, it's lighter, and it has a faster return response reaction. It's more expensive, but it's kind of a standard in the high-end chiner rim market.
> 
> At 200 lbs I don't think you'd need to worry too much about under-rimming yourself--just don't get the lightest rims out there. Try to go about 350 grams or heavier for a 29er rim. I recommend buying from manufacturers that use monocoque layup, like Light Bicycle or Speedsafe (on aliexpress). These will be much stronger than rims with two or three seams.
> 
> ...


T800 isn't necessarily better though it is slightly stronger and lighter but it is more brittle and more susceptible to abrasion. T800 fibers are thinner than T700. And within each grade their are grades within the group and frankly we don't know what they are using, but then again the percentages between each are small. The gain from T700 to T800 is 10% roughly, but the loss of abrasion resistance and more brittleness... hmm not sure what the equitable balance for each individual is.



n1cholasj said:


> https://www.oxivecarbon.com/product...ight-270g-free-shipping?variant=5692939927579
> 
> I'm thinking of this for the rear and the i30 for the front. About 400 shipped for the pair, both sub 400g. They'd get used for xc-trail and occasional "enduro" trails. Maybe some enduro racing? Maybe I'm expexting too much out of these.


Those are for weight weenies. I'd rather go for their wider asym rims around 420grams personally for the width and heft. And your not exactly a lightweight right?


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Also, I should mention that the Oxive rims can be annoying as hell if you prefer to build wheels with a wrench from the rim bed versus spoke side. I prefer building wheels that way. The Oxive rims are not drilled asymmetrically in regards to the rim bed holes. I'll be honest, it really pissed me off because I often use straight pull spokes. If you use straight pull spokes, you would use a spoke holder to stop the spoke from spinning when adding tension. And when you are forced to add tension on the spoke side, the holder cannot grab the spoke closest to the nipple. AND then you are forced to grab the spoke on the butted section which sort of reduces your ability to stop the binding. Its aggravating as F!

Below you can see the rim bed hole doesn't line up. I emailed them to show them this and ask wtf were they thinking? They replied a couple times but Chinese is a big road block to explaining things and after two emails they stopped responding lol.









I managed to build my set up, it just took longer. The rims are decent, I'm just not sure I'd do it over again but Oxive's pricing is very good so maybe.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

So far I've seen no reason to prefer Oxive or LB over Carbonfan. The photos Jayem posted of his rims make them look cheaply made, similar to a set of $235/pr promotion Nexties I have. I have two sets of Carbonfan and they look great. 18 months of riding on one set and no problems.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

n1cholasj said:


> https://www.oxivecarbon.com/product...ight-270g-free-shipping?variant=5692939927579
> 
> I'm thinking of this for the rear and the i30 for the front. About 400 shipped for the pair, both sub 400g. They'd get used for xc-trail and occasional "enduro" trails. Maybe some enduro racing? Maybe I'm expexting too much out of these.


Well, those are more substantial than the 290g Oxive XC racing rims I have! At 28mm, they are fine for XC racing and I did most of the racing season here on them. As light rims get wider though, they do get more exposed. I ride carbon rims everywhere, no qualms riding them on full DH rides that I do, park days, etc., but IF I lived back in Arizona and IF I did South Mountain frequently, I might think twice, just because you get damage from things like ricocheting boulders and things sticking out into the trail. In most places, that's not anywhere near as big of a concern. Just based on your description of what you want to do with them, I wouldn't be looking for any "ultra-light" rims. I'd just be looking at the normal layup rims. The T800 and ultra-lights should have thinner sides and while outright strength may be the same or even more, impact resistance due to a rock when your pressure is too low may be less.

Those 380g Oxive's aren't really all that light though. Most of the carbon rim manufacturers are offering something around 30mm and 400g or less these days as their "normal use" rims. My old standbys are 30mm 29er nexties that have been beaten to hell and back and still work great every day. They were 400g if I recall correctly.

My much wider and beefier Nextie 35s on my AM bike are 50g heavier.

I have LB, Nextie and Oxive. I can't tell any difference in how they were made or laid up, they all work great on the bike. I'm in favor of the in-line spoke holes to get them off the shoulder of the tire-channel, I don't build with straight-pull spokes though.


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## n1cholasj (Nov 23, 2017)

Jayem said:


> Well, those are more substantial than the 290g Oxive XC racing rims I have! At 28mm, they are fine for XC racing and I did most of the racing season here on them. As light rims get wider though, they do get more exposed. I ride carbon rims everywhere, no qualms riding them on full DH rides that I do, park days, etc., but IF I lived back in Arizona and IF I did South Mountain frequently, I might think twice, just because you get damage from things like ricocheting boulders and things sticking out into the trail. In most places, that's not anywhere near as big of a concern. Just based on your description of what you want to do with them, I wouldn't be looking for any "ultra-light" rims. I'd just be looking at the normal layup rims. The T800 and ultra-lights should have thinner sides and while outright strength may be the same or even more, impact resistance due to a rock when your pressure is too low may be less.
> 
> Those 380g Oxive's aren't really all that light though. Most of the carbon rim manufacturers are offering something around 30mm and 400g or less these days as their "normal use" rims. My old standbys are 30mm 29er nexties that have been beaten to hell and back and still work great every day. They were 400g if I recall correctly.
> 
> ...


Cool, thanks for the response. I'm also looking at carbonfan HM series, (https://www.carbonfan.com/carbon-ho...classic-series-width-24mm-30mm-32mm-35mm-42mm). Probably the i26 or i29 rims, maybe narrower in rear wider up front. I'm curious if these use t800 as well. Everything else I am seeing in similar dimensions clocks in the 440-465g/rim mark.

The vast majority of my riding is in WA/PNW for what its worth.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

n1cholasj said:


> Cool, thanks for the response. I'm also looking at carbonfan HM series, (https://www.carbonfan.com/carbon-ho...classic-series-width-24mm-30mm-32mm-35mm-42mm). Probably the i26 or i29 rims, maybe narrower in rear wider up front. I'm curious if these use t800 as well. Everything else I am seeing in similar dimensions clocks in the 440-465g/rim mark.
> 
> The vast majority of my riding is in WA/PNW for what its worth.


Dude, read the specs.

Rim Material: full carbon Toray T700


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## n1cholasj (Nov 23, 2017)

thesmokingman said:


> Dude, read the specs.
> 
> Rim Material: full carbon Toray T700


Whoops. Thanks for taking up the slack for me!


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

I’m looking at a set of EIE 25.5id 32H Asym. wheels to shave around 200g off my current NOX 29id wheel set that I transferred over from my last/bigger travel bike. I weigh 195-200lbs and will use these wheels for XC,Trail with around 10% rocky trail riding mixed in on various rides. 

At my weight should I be concerned going with their XC wheels vs AM? Rim weights are;
Super light XC 340g
XC 360g
AM 380g


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Thx everyone for the knowledge. Looking for input based on your experiences.

Putting together a set of wheels that will be used primarily on a HT XC bike (2019cdale FSI). Planning to run 2.35" Vittoria Barzo and mezcal combo. Trying to build them under 1500 gr. 28H DT swiss 350 hubs. Rider wt is 170lbs. 95% of riding will be hard pack, tight, twisty, and high speed. I push corners hard and am not afraid of speed. 

Probably Asym front and Sym rear (since it will on cdale AI offset frame). 

Your recommendations?


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Just any i25 xc rim from the companies mentioned in the thread.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Chicane32 said:


> I'm looking at a set of EIE 25.5id 32H Asym. wheels to shave around 200g off my current NOX 29id wheel set that I transferred over from my last/bigger travel bike. I weigh 195-200lbs and will use these wheels for XC,Trail with around 10% rocky trail riding mixed in on various rides.
> 
> At my weight should I be concerned going with their XC wheels vs AM? Rim weights are;
> Super light XC 340g
> ...


For my trail bike, I went with an AM weight rim (38mm outer, 32mm inner, asymmetrical) from XMCarbonspeed.com and they have been excellent. If you're using 28h 350's, get the center lock version to save a bit more weight. Mine shown were built with CX-Ray spokes, boost 350 28h hubs for center lock rotors.

I have a new set on my list for my SS. With the same build specs as the set I just mentioned, it should come in around 1350g to 1400g and run well under $1,000 if I have them built up by Peter at XMCarbon using the T800 carbon.

T700/800 Asymetric mtb carbon rim


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Alright, I'm not spamming for these guys since I don't get a penny from them, but I just think this is a great deal so I'm sharing:

This 1290g 29er wheelset is running for $571 (DT 350 hubs, Pillar X-tra aero bladed spokes, 310-315g rims). For a very small cost, you can have them substitute 280g rims for 310g rims for a <$600 1220g wheelset!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/129...p-clincher-tubeless-straight/32828213559.html

I have previously owned a set and was very impressed. I just bought the 280g version.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

I got a great quote from EIE for 29er wheelset, A29C30D28S 30.5mm internal width, with 240s straight pull boost hubset, $800 plus shipping. That is really cheap! I decided to go wider and slightly beefier, and have asked them to quote AM version of A29C34D25 (34mm internal width).


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

I am also in the market for a new wheelset. I narrowed it down to EIE and Light Bicycle. I have a set of Light Bicycle now on my 5010 and they have held up very well for the last 2 years. LB pricing has gone up since I ordered mine. I went back and forth on email with LB and was ready to pull the trigger. Then they realized they quoted me wrong and was 90.00 off. This kind of turned me off a little. The wheels were the AM927 Recon with the DT swiss 240 hubs.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

I've chatted with Btlos, EIE and Carbon Fan. The 3 have slight differences with some similarities. EIE wheels weigh a bit more and they claim that their 380g XC rims aren't strong enough riding above XC for a 200# rider. Where as Carbon Fan are confident that their 380g XC wheels will handle riders well above 200# and it's confirmed in their listed max weight. Great pricing with a lot of different options.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

backinmysaddle said:


> I got a great quote from EIE for 29er wheelset, A29C30D28S 30.5mm internal width, with 240s straight pull boost hubset, $800 plus shipping. That is really cheap! I decided to go wider and slightly beefier, and have asked them to quote AM version of A29C34D25 (34mm internal width).


That does seem a good deal. What spokes does that come with?


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

backinmysaddle said:


> I got a great quote from EIE for 29er wheelset, A29C30D28S 30.5mm internal width, with 240s straight pull boost hubset, $800 plus shipping. That is really cheap! I decided to go wider and slightly beefier, and have asked them to quote AM version of A29C34D25 (34mm internal width).


They must like you more than me. I got a quote from them for a similar wheelset (A29C25D25S) with DT240s for about $940 before shipping. Rims cost the same as yours and the only upgrade I asked for was the 36T ratchet (which costs ~$60 not $140). So like I said, they must just like you better...


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

wayold said:


> They must like you more than me. I got a quote from them for a similar wheelset (A29C25D25S) with DT240s for about $940 before shipping. Rims cost the same as yours and the only upgrade I asked for was the 36T ratchet (which costs ~$60 not $140). So like I said, they must just like you better...


Did you ask for fancy spokes?


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

CrozCountry said:


> Did you ask for fancy spokes?


Nope, this was with the cheaper Pillar 1420s. With Sapim CX-Rays the quote was $1004 + shipping. I wonder if there's some kind of secret coupon some folks have?


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

I just went with basic spokes, no need for anything fancy on my end. Here is what they sent me back after I asked for the wider rim ($20 cheaper than the rim they originally had spec'd):

*Thank you so much for your interested reply.
It is no problem to use A29C34D25 rim to quote ,please refer to below :
Rim: A29C34D25 UD,Matte,28/28H -- 2pcs
Hubs: DT Swiss 240S Boost (15*110mm 12*148mm) SRAM XX1,Center Lock,straight pull hub.
Spokes:Black DT Swiss Competition
Nipples:Black Brass
The price is $780 one set
Shipping to USA by EMS freight :$70
PayPal commission: Free
Total amount is $780+$70= $850 including wheels price and shipping cost .
I hope above wheels price OK for.
Please let us know if you want to order one of these two wheels.
Looking for your reply.
Thanks 
Pretty*


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Interesting. I got quoted a similar $72 in shipping, but an additional 3.5% Paypal fee. I wonder why the difference there. And this in addition to your price before shipping being over $160 less than mine.

Some of that is the 36T ratchet, but I think a fairly small fraction. The only other difference I see is the DT Swiss Competition spokes in your spec vs. the Pillar 1420s in mine, but I didn't think there was a huge price difference between them. 

I'd be tempted to ask them what's up, but I don't want to screw up your deal. I just wish they'd seen fit to offer me a similar one.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Yeah, I dont know how they can do DT Swiss 240s hubs at that price, almost seems like the price for a cheap wheelset with 350 hubs. I dont know. Also odd that you would get the paypall fee. I came in directly from their website, I wonder if that makes a difference, did you follow a link or go through ebay?


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Straight from the website. Went for a custom build and got the email quote from Pretty. Interestingly one of the stock builds on their website looks a lot like yours only with DT350s for $760
29er A29C29D25 AM & DH with DT Swiss 350

I wonder if you got a price mistake. If so I'd jump on it and see if they'll honor it.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

I have a quote for $893 with 240’s, C-Xray, 32H, id25 Vshape. Same $73 for ship, no PayPal fee, so that must be a mistake or you don’t live in the US. Clearly the C-XRay spokes add $100 or so.


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## CrimsonCountry (Jul 14, 2011)

Chicane32 said:


> I have a quote for $893 with 240's, C-Xray, 32H, id25 Vshape. Same $73 for ship, no PayPal fee, so that must be a mistake or you don't live in the US. Clearly the C-XRay spokes add $100 or so.


I got a set of 30/36mm Asym (AM weight), 32H 240s Boost, CX Rays and Brass Nipples for $880 shipped via Ebay. I know it's a different seller (doubt build is much different though). Just saying its possible as these builders must be getting crazy deals on the 240 hubs.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah 800 for that set up is smoking. 

If you're comfortable building up wheels yourself, cicli mattio sells dt swiss hubs very reasonably priced. 

I preordered a set of rims from Speedsafe on Aliexpress for about $280. Will build with 350 hubs and wheelsmith db14 spokes. Brass nipples. Total build price will be about $560. Wt around 1450 gr for 29er with 30mmOD rims.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Yeah, they seem to be getting DT Swiss hubs by the boatload and then passing the savings on to us. I found the lowest price in USD for DT Swiss 240s were from one of the German sites. But even at their price and the cost of the rims from EIE and spokes locally, it is clear that I cannot build my own for this price. It’s a no brainer for me to jump on this quote for EIE.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

backinmysaddle said:


> Yeah, they seem to be getting DT Swiss hubs by the boatload and then passing the savings on to us. I found the lowest price in USD for DT Swiss 240s were from one of the German sites. But even at their price and the cost of the rims from EIE and spokes locally, it is clear that I cannot build my own for this price. It's a no brainer for me to jump on this quote for EIE.


If you wait until Black Friday I'm guessing they will after at least 10% off.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Hoping someone can help me. My buddy "gave me" a set of Enve's M70/30. He got a new set and put these on my bike. I owe him $780 for them (it's all good that's how we roll and I was waffling about them). Haven't paid him yet. I noticed a huge difference right away compared to the stock WTBi23 that came on my small Bronson v1.

I'm 140 lb, I'm not very aggressive, no big jumps, when I pretend to jump or bunny hop I get may be 12" max. Reason I waffled because I think I wanted the M60's instead.

Anyway, thinking of grabbing a chinese set and giving these back or selling them. I just have no idea what to buy! I see some sets are around 300g per rim or so (I think the M70 is 463 gr per rim according to their website).

I may or may not upgrade to the Bronson v3 but that is not imminent or set in stone. So something of a modern inner width but I'll never go to wide. I think the 25mm inner width suits me fine (unless someone suggests different). I ride in San Diego/So Cal, so San Juan, Black Mountain, PQ (although you can ride a 10 speed on most of PQ) and Greer Ranch/Nursery in Temecula are my main stays.

I figure if I get a new bike I can disassemble and get compliant hubs etc?

The cheaper the better, without sacrificing quality. Is Speedsafe a good vendor? Shaving off another 300 grams would be awesome. Will 300 gram hoops support my style of riding? Again, lightweight non-aggressive rider here. I do big drops sometimes at Ted Williams and Noble Canyon, but nothing super aggressive or fast.

EDIT: Oops. Sorry didn't realize this was in the 29'er section! 650B here. Sorry about that! Good knowledge in this thead though.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> Hoping someone can help me. My buddy "gave me" a set of Enve's M70/30. He got a new set and put these on my bike. I owe him $780 for them (it's all good that's how we roll and I was waffling about them). Haven't paid him yet. I noticed a huge difference right away compared to the stock WTBi23 that came on my small Bronson v1.
> 
> I'm 140 lb, I'm not very aggressive, no big jumps, when I pretend to jump or bunny hop I get may be 12" max. Reason I waffled because I think I wanted the M60's instead.
> 
> ...


What tire size are you running, what is the inner width on the ENVE's, and what do you consider "too wide"?

Personally, on a Bronson, I wouldn't run anything under 29mm inner width. People are still stuck on wanting to run 23mm to 25mm rims with 2.35" tires. Yes it may work but it isn't ideal. For reference, the 2019 Stigmata comes with 22.5" rims with 40mm / 1.58" tires.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> I may or may not upgrade to the Bronson v3 but that is not imminent or set in stone. So something of a modern inner width but I'll never go to wide. I think the 25mm inner width suits me fine (unless someone suggests different). I ride in San Diego/So Cal, so San Juan, Black Mountain, PQ (although you can ride a 10 speed on most of PQ) and Greer Ranch/Nursery in Temecula are my main stays.


Next time you are in socal, pm me. I'll show you my inner width 32mm carbon wheels. That said I think you should be looking for 30mm and in that range inner width rims as suggested above. That width is the sweet spot as they are perfect for running the middle width size tires, ie. everything from 2.3in to 2.6in.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

BXCc said:


> What tire size are you running, what is the inner width on the ENVE's, and what do you consider "too wide"?
> 
> Personally, on a Bronson, I wouldn't run anything under 29mm inner width. People are still stuck on wanting to run 23mm to 25mm rims with 2.35" tires. Yes it may work but it isn't ideal. For reference, the 2019 Stigmata comes with 22.5" rims with 40mm / 1.58" tires.


I mean the newer bronson is coming with 2.6 tires on the wider end, and 2.4/2.5 on their normal build. I'm thinking 2.3/2.4 is where I'd end up at unless I can be convinced otherwise.



thesmokingman said:


> Next time you are in socal, pm me. I'll show you my inner width 32mm carbon wheels. That said I think you should be looking for 30mm and in that range inner width rims as suggested above. That width is the sweet spot as they are perfect for running the middle width size tires, ie. everything from 2.3in to 2.6in.


So 30mm inner width? Oh okay.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> I mean the newer bronson is coming with 2.6 tires on the wider end, and 2.4/2.5 on their normal build. I'm thinking 2.3/2.4 is where I'd end up at unless I can be convinced otherwise.
> 
> So 30mm inner width? Oh okay.


That would be my vote. Somewhere in the 28mm to 30mm range would work.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

BXCc said:


> That would be my vote. Somewhere in the 28mm to 30mm range would work.


Agreed. 
Y wife's bike has 29mm 27.5 wheels and she has run 2.25s and 2.4s with great results

On my own bike 29" 29mm rims I've run 2.4 and 2.6. Both great.

Don't go with narrow rims. You'll either regret it or won't know what you're missing.


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

Crazy question time. I've noticed that people ordering carbon wheels never say anything about getting rims with no spoke holes inside. Why would you want to spend the money for carbon and then set them up ghetto tubeless? I have wide aluminum Roval rims (39mm internal) and trying to get them to seal up tubeless with the Specialized rim strips is hit and miss. It seems to me that ordering a carbon wheelset full UST would be a no brainer. What am I missing here? Thanks for your response.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

I ordered those rims, and given the chance I would order them again.
But they do have a drawback, the work and time they need to be laced is considerably bigger. If you are lacing them yourself this may be not a problem, but if you paying for someone to lace them it will be expensive, this if you find someone to lace them in the first place.
But I don't have to worry about rim tape and for me that's a big bonus.


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## coombs (Jun 22, 2005)

I just ordered a wheel set from EIE Carbon. The temptation was too great!

Rim:A29C29D25 (AM,UD,Matte,32/32H,No decals )--2pcs
HubsT240S Boost(Front:15*110mm,Rear:12*148mm),Shimano MTB 10/11S,Center Lock
Spoke:Black Pillar Aero X-TRA 1420(Bladed)
Nipple:Black Brass.
The weight is 1596+/-15 grams.
2pcs valve stem +1pcs tubeless tape added 
The price is $810
Shipping to USA by EMS freight:$72
PayPal commission：($810+$72)*0.035=$30
Total amount is $810+$72+$30=$912 including shipping cost and PayPal commission.
Please check the price and let us know if want to order this wheels.
If any questions ,please let us know 
Thanks 
PRETTY

I also upgraded to the 54t star ratchet for $65 and got a $35 discount (I don’t know why). Total cost was $947. Now I hurry up and wait. 😀


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

coombs said:


> I just ordered a wheel set from EIE Carbon. The temptation was too great!
> 
> Rim:A29C29D25 (AM,UD,Matte,32/32H,No decals )--2pcs
> HubsT240S Boost(Front:15*110mm,Rear:12*148mm),Shimano MTB 10/11S,Center Lock
> ...


I have that rim. I like that rim. If I were ordering today, though, I'd choose this one:

A29C30D28S Super light V-shaped asymmetric 29er 38.5mm wide MTB carbon rims tubeless compatible
A29C30D28 V-shaped asymmetric rim 29er MTB carbon tubeless compatible


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

alexdi said:


> I have that rim. I like that rim. If I were ordering today, though, I'd choose this one:
> 
> A29C30D28S Super light V-shaped asymmetric 29er 38.5mm wide MTB carbon rims tubeless compatible
> A29C30D28 V-shaped asymmetric rim 29er MTB carbon tubeless compatible


What are the thoughts in general of these V shaped rims? Are they stiffer equating in a harsher ride or can you not tell a difference compared the the usual rounded profile?


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

I also have a similar bid from EIE. Haven't ordered yet. Just trying to figure out how to sneak it past the wife. I got worried about an inevitable spoke replacement with the tubeless carbon and then I found this video on youtube on spoke replacement when the nipple brakes off inside.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Giant Warp said:


> I also have a similar bid from EIE. Haven't ordered yet. Just trying to figure out how to sneak it past the wife. I got worried about an inevitable spoke replacement with the tubeless carbon and then I found this video on youtube on spoke replacement when the nipple brakes off inside.


I prefer to use a magnet and a screw, faster and way less noise.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Chicane32 said:


> What are the thoughts in general of these V shaped rims? Are they stiffer equating in a harsher ride or can you not tell a difference compared the the usual rounded profile?


That rim is new, I haven't tried it. I wouldn't expect a radical difference in ride quality. I would expect it to be more resilient to damage and less likely to cause pinch flats. I've damaged two tires near the beads from bottoming on the older rim style. The wider, blunter rim wall on the new style would fare better. It's also a lighter, wider rim in most configurations.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Does anyone have information on the sort of sales that the various carbon wheel vendors will be having on 11-11 and Black Friday? I know Speedsafe is advertizing their 11-11 prices on AliExpress and BTLOS is having one of their periodic 15% off sales on 11-11, but any other info would be appreciated.


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## XterraMike (Jul 12, 2012)

wayold said:


> Does anyone have information on the sort of sales that the various carbon wheel vendors will be having on 11-11 and Black Friday? I know Speedsafe is advertizing their 11-11 prices on AliExpress and BTLOS is having one of their periodic 15% off sales on 11-11, but any other info would be appreciated.


Just ordered some BTLOS wheels (i29 with 240 hubs) and in addition to 15% discount got a free upgrade to 54T ratchet.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Can you guys post your opinion about the btlos wheelsets? Not sure if I should pick a Carbon set at my local wheel builder or get a btlos set.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

BTLOS has good prices and I haven't heard any negative comments about their quality, but they do have a narrower selection of rims than some of the other vendors. Also it looks their stated weights are about 30-40g more per rim than some of the comparable ones from EIE/Carbonfan (which I list together since many of their their rims seem identical).


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Okay Thanks but if you were looking for a good Xco/xcm 28/30mm id wheelset. Which brand should you pick and Why?


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

wayold said:


> BTLOS has good prices and I haven't heard any negative comments about their quality, but they do have a narrower selection of rims than some of the other vendors. Also it looks their stated weights are about 30-40g more per rim than some of the comparable ones from EIE/Carbonfan (which I list together since many of their their rims seem identical).


I am waiting for a set of the BTLOS wheels right now. I personally felt comfortable dealing with BTLOS because they were more concerned about durability than weight. Granted - that was what I emphasized but they definitely supported. I am going with the double butted / 32 spoke / i29 wheel sets which I hope will be durable and trouble-free.

I am sure if you called them and said you wanted a lightweight wheelset, that they would work with you.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

I sent Nextie as BTLos an email to advice me so let’s see who helps me better. 


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## yagr68 (Aug 21, 2018)

I got a set of BTLOS m-i25a rims built with DT 350 hubs. Quality seems great so far and I have no complaints. This is my first set of carbon wheels so not much to compare with. I did about an hour demo on some SC reserves on a demo bike and no big differences stood out.

A few points:
- Communication with them was great.
- These wheels are actually 26.5mm internal, NOT 25mm as advertised. They did point this out to me when ordering.
- The website lets you configure things that aren't available. ie. I picked centerlock J bend DT hubs but they only had centerlock in straight pull. Not a huge deal and they'll point out anything that isn't available.
- Wheels took a bit longer than anticipated but no big deal.

All in all, I'm very satisfied and would use them again.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

yagr68 said:


> - These wheels are actually 26.5mm internal, NOT 25mm as advertised. They did point this out to me when ordering.


This is true but only for the XC version of these rims and is described on the web page for the rim. All versions of this rim have a 32mm outer width, but while the AM version has an IW of 25mm and 3.5mm thick bead walls, the XC version has a 26.5mm IW and correspondingly thinner walls.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

wayold said:


> This is true but only for the XC version of these rims and is described on the web page for the rim. All versions of this rim have a 32mm outer width, but while the AM version has an IW of 25mm and 3.5mm thick bead walls, the XC version has a 26.5mm IW and correspondingly thinner walls.


Yes, they can also build you the i25 AM spec wheel with their XC weight of 390g. I was looking to do this, but I want a lighter i25 wheel.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Anyone try out the new LB Recon Pro series rims? I previously had the older style AM928 and just ordered a couple of the newer AM930’s to build another wheelset.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

yooooo!, btlos is having a 15% off sale from 11-9 till 11-11, they are also adding the 54t dtswiss upgrade for the first 50 customers. I own a pair and I love them, this is a great time to buy some.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

$775 shipped for 27.5 34mm width, dt upgrade. I’m so tempted....


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Why is BTLos so heavy?:/ 1600 for a 30mm id rim with sapim cx ray AMD DT 240...


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

JasperGr said:


> Why is BTLos so heavy?:/ 1600 for a 30mm id rim with sapim cx ray AMD DT 240...
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


I agree. That's what held me back from buying from them. EIE/Carbonfan and Light Bicycle seem to be 30-50g per rim lighter for comparable profiles and materials.


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## fmanuelsg (Oct 17, 2011)

Hi, just about buying a couple of wheelsets from SpeedSafe ... what opinion do you have about this builder? Any known issue?

I made a final search before click the buy button and I found this thread in this same forum LINK ... so I thought that this thread wouldn't be a bad place to ask.

Any alternative seller to SpeedSafe?

Thanks!


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

fmanuelsg said:


> Any alternative seller to SpeedSafe?Thanks!


I am far from an expert on this topic, but I did a lot of reading in this thread before I ordered a set of wheels from BTLOS. There seem to be a fair number of reputable sellers: Light Bike and Nextie seem to be the most established, but I have also seen decent reports on BTLOS, EIE, Carbonfan and Oxive.

There are a few things that stick out in that link you shared - the weight of the wheelset was incredibly light. I don't know the specifics of the rider or how the rims were used, but I personally value durability over light weight. The other thing that seemed weird is that they are using 64% T800. Again, not an expert, but I have read that while T800 is lighter than T700, it is also more brittle. I know BTLOS only advertises 25% T800 in their premium rims. Read into this what you will.

This is my first experience ordering directly from China. I chose BTLOS because they were cheaper than Light Bike and Nextie, but appear to be a company that manufacturers the rims that they sell. Their communication has been excellent through the sales/build process, although in all honesty I wouldn't expect anything different. I can't say anything yet about their support if anything goes wrong - I am hoping I will never find out 

Good luck!


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> I am far from an expert on this topic, but I did a lot of reading in this thread before I ordered a set of wheels from BTLOS. There seem to be a fair number of reputable sellers: Light Bike and Nextie seem to be the most established, but I have also seen decent reports on BTLOS, EIE, Carbonfan and Oxive.


It's all the same factory and manufacturing procedures. Different quality control in each case.



> The other thing that seemed weird is that they are using 64% T800. Again, not an expert, but I have read that while T800 is lighter than T700, it is also more brittle. I know BTLOS only advertises 25% T800 in their premium rims. Read into this what you will.


It really matters what resin you use, not so much the fiber. T800 is marginally more brittle than T700, but when using a graphene epoxy it's actually stronger. Additionally, good rim layups consist of a single carbon sheet in each layer angled about 20-40 degrees so that the fibers support lateral spoke tension and aren't as affected by vertical impacts. This makes fiber brittleness even less important.



> This is my first experience ordering directly from China. I chose BTLOS because they were cheaper than Light Bike and Nextie, but appear to be a company that manufacturers the rims that they sell.


They don't manufacture, they are agents like everyone else that do a great job of pretending they are the factory. They have a corner of the factory at the end of the production line and an office nearby. They do their own quality control and wheelbuilding.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

sissypants said:


> It's all the same factory and manufacturing procedures. Different quality control in each case.





sissypants said:


> They don't manufacture, they are agents like everyone else that do a great job of pretending they are the factory. They have a corner of the factory at the end of the production line and an office nearby. They do their own quality control and wheelbuilding.


I certainly appreciate that you seem to know much more about this than I do, but do you have any evidence? I was looking for this sort of information but could not find it.

Again, not proof but this is the information on BTLOS's website:

Xiamen Btlos Bicycle Co., Ltd. is a professional manufacturer focused on the design, development, and production of carbon fiber bicycle road rims, carbon mountain bike rims, carbon fat bike rims and carbon wheelsets. 
After many years as an OEM manufacturer/supplier, in 2017, BTLOS launched our consumer website making our years of quality and manufacturing expertise available direct to the consumer at the retail level for the very first time.
Our well-equipped facilities and excellent quality control throughout all stages of production enable us to guarantee total customer satisfaction.

And this:
*ABOUT OUR FACTORY*

*CAN I VISIT YOUR FACTORY?*

Yes. Welcome to visit our factory.

*WHY CHOOSE US?*

We have 6 years of experience in designing and producing high-end carbon bicycle rims.


We are the direct manufacturer.
All the carbon fiber raw materials come from Japan. We only use pure carbon fiber material.
We have professional technical personnel and designer team.
We have strict test standard and quality control system.
We have good after-sales service team.
Passed EN and UCI quality test.
Quality warranty period: 18-mount.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> I certainly appreciate that you seem to know much more about this than I do, but do you have any evidence? I was looking for this sort of information but could not find it.
> 
> Again, not evidence but this is the information on BTLOS's website:
> 
> ...


My source is direct communication with several brands. I have been unable to find a way to contact the actual factory directly. They all skirt the question about whether they actually control the production process.

You'll also notice the molds are similar (or identical), indicating the same designer was involved or even the same molds were used. Not only that, pictures of the factory in Alibaba ads have the same floor color, rack or shelving style, etc.  I really can't find a way to reach this factory directly.

This is very much unlike Qtour and Yishun which will quickly tell you they are the only producer in their factory, and sell to agents.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

sissypants said:


> My source is direct communication with several brands. I have been unable to find a way to contact the actual factory directly. They all skirt the question about whether they actually control the production process.
> 
> You'll also notice the molds are similar (or identical), indicating the same designer was involved or even the same molds were used. Not only that, pictures of the factory in Alibaba ads have the same floor color, rack or shelving style, etc.  I really can't find a way to reach this factory directly.
> 
> This is very much unlike Qtour and Yishun which will quickly tell you they are the only producer in their factory, and sell to agents.


Good info and would absolutely make sense to me. I can't imagine that many carbon fiber factories existing.

Curious why the price can vary so much, but then again it isn't surprising. Take pinarello vs giant.... One is a mass producer and the other is a very targeted high end market. Branding plays a big role in all of business.

That said, curious to see the rims I ordered from Speedsafe are of similar quality to my Nexties. Specs are very close. The preorder price a couple weeks ago was nearly 50% less though. I have no clue when they'll ship. No word yet.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

wildh said:


> Curious why the price can vary so much, but then again it isn't surprising.


The actual cost of manufacturing a rim is probably between $50 and $75, though I don't have a firm figure on that because factories like to add in warranty funds and distribute mold costs. Then the agents have to pay tax, quality control (and pick up the expenses of rejects), shipping, packaging, labor, drilling, sanding, painting, reserve funds for warranty, handled customer service, pay building rent, pay factory rent, pay for their Aliexpress store ($1,500 start-up cost), pay for Aliexpress fees per transaction (8%) or Alibaba fees (per lead), buy insurance, and it all adds up. It's phenomenal what prices these people can do.

It's crazy, wholesale prices are often higher than Aliexpress promotional prices. These newer and smaller agents are tearing themselves to pieces trying to gain a following, at the complete expense of any profits and their competitors. It's a chain reaction to bankruptcy. They are forgetting the power of good marketing and focusing only on the price tag.

I spent some time comparing carbon rim agents that were around in 2011-2013 and that are still around. The failure rate for these companies was about 3 in 4, those that are still around are very popular. I'd bet on it that excellent customer service got them to this point, not the lowest prices.

I would be really really curious to visit several of these places in person. Maybe next time I get a business conference in China or Hong Kong I'll sneak in a side trip.


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## spec47 (Jul 12, 2013)

Looking to purchase a lightweight wheelset for my new build, any advice?

Thinking something along the lines of:
25mm internal width (will be running 2.35 front/2.25 front usually)
Sapim CX-Ray spokes
28-hole
DT Swiss 240s or 350s (not set on these)
54t ratchet upgrade (have 36t now and wouldn't want any less)


Is everybody choosing straight-pull if that's an option? No preference to sym/asym as I have no experience, but input appreciated.

Shipping to Canada seems crazy from some retailers ($200 USD) and I am not in a rush.

I weigh 65kg and this will be on a 110/120mm XC race bike. Riding in Whistler though, so dropper + Fox 34 as the trails are more on the 'enduro' side of things, but no real drops/jumps outside of the park here.

I have been riding Light Bicycle 29C07's (30mm internal) rims on my other bike for two years (including the bike park) and have absolutely no issues with them.


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## rumblytumbly (Jun 5, 2013)

spec47 said:


> Looking to purchase a lightweight wheelset for my new build, any advice?
> 
> Thinking something along the lines of:
> 25mm internal width (will be running 2.35 front/2.25 front usually)
> ...


https://www.carbonfan.com/t800-tube...ountain-bike-wheels-xy-series-width-27mm-30mm Carbonfan skyweight have been great for me over the last year. Great communication, price, and fast shipping. 27mm ext, dt240, pillar spokes atless than 1300 grams for a great price. Might as well go asym as that's theoretically stronger, I used straight pull but don't think it makes any difference other than hub may be slightly lighter.


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## spec47 (Jul 12, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestion. Looks like $1,361 for the build I want, think I'd stick with Light Bicycle if I'm going to spend that much though.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

btlos is having a 15% sale on everything it seems, good time to buy. I have been riding mine for 5 months on enduro trails, all good.


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## spec47 (Jul 12, 2013)

BTLOS works out to $992 (after $50 spin prize code) for the build I'd want, seem to weigh a bit more than other manufacturers, but not huge. I saw 15% for some rims, is there a code or something for wheelsets?


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

No code, I just went to the website and I saw the -15% on the wheelsets


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/34mm-internal-mountain-bike-downhill-carbon-wheelset
I run these rims in 27.5 premium DH laced to king hubs. I trust them completely!


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## spec47 (Jul 12, 2013)

You're right, looks like that was built-in already. Can save a bit more with that spin and win thing on the home page.

i24a with 350s (54t and CX-Ray) works out to $834 shipped at 1396g. Probably the front runner for now, sounds like they have a good reputation (BTLOS).


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Yep, they are a solid choice, I love them.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I spun it for fun and got a 50, do u want it


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## spec47 (Jul 12, 2013)

That's what I got (included in the $ total I posted) thanks for the offer!


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Awesome!


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

Just received carbonfan 25id assymetric wheelset.built with novatec centerlock hubs. Weight is 679 rear,540 front. Just freshened up my Ridley. Also added eagle 12 speed while I was at. Bike is now 23lbs 9 ounces with pedals. Excited to try it out Tuesday.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

spec47 said:


> You're right, looks like that was built-in already. Can save a bit more with that spin and win thing on the home page.
> 
> i24a with 350s (54t and CX-Ray) works out to $834 shipped at 1396g. Probably the front runner for now, sounds like they have a good reputation (BTLOS).


I love my BTLOS wheels - I think you will be happy. If you are looking for a lower price you might check out EIE. You have to request a quote, but they will turn it around quickly. I'd personally stick with BTLOS though. Buy their premium wheels and get the 3.5 year warranty with crash replacement.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

global said:


> Just received carbonfan 25id assymetric wheelset.built with novatec centerlock hubs. Weight is 679 rear,540 front. Just freshened up my Ridley. Also added eagle 12 speed while I was at. Bike is now 23lbs 9 ounces with pedals. Excited to try it out Tuesday.


I don't know anything about those Novatec hubs. Are they decent?


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

I live in Temecula and novatec has offices here. I have used there hubs on 8 wheelsets over 6 years and have had great luck. They are very popular in my area. I just bought LB wheels for my road bike with dt hubs but would have got novatec if they offered xdr for 12 speed road freehub. These hubs are lighter than 240 straight pull centerlock for a way lower cost.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

global said:


> I live in Temecula and novatec has offices here. I have used there hubs on 8 wheelsets over 6 years and have had great luck. They are very popular in my area. I just bought LB wheels for my road bike with dt hubs but would have got novatec if they offered xdr for 12 speed road freehub. These hubs are lighter than 240 straight pull centerlock for a way lower cost.


Glad they work for you. I have a set of 29er wheels with Novatec hubs that came stock on my Hightower. The general consensus on the forums seems to be that they are not very good hubs. Always hard to tell if that is just the noisy minority or not.... I just want to know when I am buying a new wheelset that the hubs are solid.


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## spec47 (Jul 12, 2013)

global said:


> View attachment 1229266
> View attachment 1229267
> View attachment 1229269
> Just received carbonfan 25id assymetric wheelset.built with novatec centerlock hubs. Weight is 679 rear,540 front. Just freshened up my Ridley. Also added eagle 12 speed while I was at. Bike is now 23lbs 9 ounces with pedals. Excited to try it out Tuesday.


Very nice! Which series/model hub is that exactly? How much did that build come out to? Haven't considered Novatec, but open to them.


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

D411sb-cl,D412sb-cl,rims are t800 25 deep 30 wide 25 ID assymetric.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Whenever I build wheels, I choose to buy high quality hubs. Only hubs I would buy are kings, i9, dt, hope, p321, onyx, and my budget choice would be halo. High engagement hubs are a must and if your lacing carbon rims why spend so little on the hubs. Just my opinion, no hate.


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

Did not choose these as my budget choice. Chose them because I think I will like them. Rarely post because some people will go negative. I think I’m done here.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I wasn't meaning to be negative towards you, I was talking to users like spec47 that were wondering what hubs they might want. And in my opinion, I think it is worth the investment in the hubs.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

The pawls in my D411SB-SL in the rear broke after 1300 miles of use and the hub wasn't spinning freely. I didn't look into why that was at the time, but regardless I would only get a D41SSB-SL for the front and maybe upgrade the bearings, but I don't think I'd do it again in the rear. They are really attractive for their weight and price, but as they say, pick two from weight, price, and quality...


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

sissypants said:


> The pawls in my D411SB-SL in the rear broke after 1300 miles of use and the hub wasn't spinning freely. I didn't look into why that was at the time, but regardless I would only get a D41SSB-SL for the front and maybe upgrade the bearings, but I don't think I'd do it again in the rear. They are really attractive for their weight and price, but as they say, pick three from weight, price, and quality...


Pick two?


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Haha, edited 

There are notable exceptions where you get all three, however...


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

I just want to know if it is possible to make a website any more cryptic than Novatec's site for their hubs. I'm not sure who the intended audience is for it, but short of clicking through each hub they offer, good luck figuring out what their product offerings are.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I look for engagement, quality and support. I don’t think novatec hubs have very good support. Quality is something I cannot report on because I never owned any.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

sissypants said:


> My source is direct communication with several brands. I have been unable to find a way to contact the actual factory directly. They all skirt the question about whether they actually control the production process.
> 
> You'll also notice the molds are similar (or identical), indicating the same designer was involved or even the same molds were used. Not only that, pictures of the factory in Alibaba ads have the same floor color, rack or shelving style, etc.  I really can't find a way to reach this factory directly.
> 
> This is very much unlike Qtour and Yishun which will quickly tell you they are the only producer in their factory, and sell to agents.


I'm a wheel builder who also has a few contacts in Asia - one at the Factory that makes BTLOS. BTLOS is a spin off within a factory that had open molds (and I believe now some new original to them molds) - that is, the company is owned by a factory that does more work for big brands and figured through expired agreement and open molds, could offer good value to end consumers. I have actually considered, and fully priced out opening my own molds in their factory.

If you are going to be in the area, just email them. I don't think you'll find you get any pushback.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> I just want to know if it is possible to make a website any more cryptic than Novatec's site for their hubs. I'm not sure who the intended audience is for it, but short of clicking through each hub they offer, good luck figuring out what their product offerings are.


Check out Factor Hubs - offshoot of Novatec, and the highest end of their product offering. Street prices are extremely good, they have 120 points of enagagment, I have seen zero reports of failure, nor had any myself, and I have put guys close to 250 lbs on them they have fantastic bearings and are well sealed...they aren't the lightest, but not super heavy either - and hub weight really doesn't matter nearly as much as tires, rims, nipples, and spokes anyway being at the centre of the wheel.


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

Can anyone confirm what ratchets BTLOS is using for the DT Swiss rear hub? I emailed them and they are saying the 36T and 54T they use is genuine DT Swiss.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

AFWY said:


> Can anyone confirm what ratchets BTLOS is using for the DT Swiss rear hub? I emailed them and they are saying the 36T and 54T they use is genuine DT Swiss.


They use genuine parts.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

mjw said:


> They use genuine parts.


Yes - best I can tell they are authentic. The ratchets in my BTLOS DT Swiss 240 hubs look identical to those in two other DT Swiss hubs that I own.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Just got a great quote for i29mm rims from EIE. I'm currently on Enve M70s (non-HV) i25 as stated earlier. But you guys planted Inception in my head on the i29/30 rims. Haven't stopped thinking about it since. These are 650b rims.

How compliant are EIE wheels for those that know? While I do enjoy the preciseness of the rims, combined with the carbon Bronson, it's quite stiff all around. And I'm looking to improve small bump which is difficult with the kinematics but just seeing where I can improve.

Wider rims with more is one way. But also just wondering if the rims are a tiny bit more compliant than the Enves which are quite stiff.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Chinese carbon rims are not bone racking stiff. Enves are the stiffest. My CarbonFan 30mm rims with Sapim Laser spokes are not overly stiff at all. But they never go out of true. They were true when I laced them. The easiest wheel to build I can imagine.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

get some cush core and run lower pressures and dont risk breaking ur rims, I have em on my 34 btlos and its so compliment and dialed


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## xblitzkriegx (Jul 29, 2016)

im on EIE i38 rims with dt350 hubs and cx-ray spokes. they are not overly stiff feeling to me. im almost 100% positive the enve wheels will be stiffer.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

I pulled the trigger on some EIE I34 Rims for my 2018 RM Instinct. They are giving me a great deal on Sapim CX Ray Spokes. A friend on mine and I are building the identical wheels. We are going to use Bitex hubs. 

I also priced BTLOS and LB. The communication with EIE was so much better than with BTLOS. They must never sleep. Every question I had was answered within a few minutes. They gave me a discount for buying two sets. They communicated the lead time, and what I needed to do with shipping to get my rims by a certain date. They are even going to hand pick the rims to meet the specific weight request I have for the AM rim in the front and the DH rim for the back. (I wanted DH, but the lighter side). 

BTLOS took a day to respond to my email quote. (Understandable that they only respond during their business hours.) The quote was great but they didn't answer my lead time and shipping time question at all. I am sure I would have had a great experience with them as many have had in the forum, but the EIE communication was confidence inspiring.


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

Venturewest said:


> I pulled the trigger on some EIE I34 Rims for my 2018 RM Instinct. They are giving me a great deal on Sapim CX Ray Spokes. A friend on mine and I are building the identical wheels. We are going to use Bitex hubs.
> 
> I also priced BTLOS and LB. The communication with EIE was so much better than with BTLOS. They must never sleep. Every question I had was answered within a few minutes. They gave me a discount for buying two sets. They communicated the lead time, and what I needed to do with shipping to get my rims by a certain date. They are even going to hand pick the rims to meet the specific weight request I have for the AM rim in the front and the DH rim for the back. (I wanted DH, but the lighter side).
> 
> BTLOS took a day to respond to my email quote. (Understandable that they only respond during their business hours.) The quote was great but they didn't answer my lead time and shipping time question at all. I am sure I would have had a great experience with them as many have had in the forum, but the EIE communication was confidence inspiring.


I too went the EIE (i39 29er) route about 6 months ago and have been very pleased. Their communication was just right. I don't think it was as responsive as what you got, and I hinted around about getting the 'lighter version' of my rim choice, but it was stated that wasn't possible (which was OK with me). In the end, I had a completely reliable and professional experience and a very good price. My 29er+ set with DT350 hubs came in shockingly light at 1620 grams....I had the rear wheel in the truing stand for the first time last week and it was COMPLETELY in spec (after a handful of rocky races).

Later,
CJB


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## gfourth (Apr 12, 2009)

I've had a pair of carbonfan rims for a year now. 29" asymmetrical, boost, 29mm ID. I ended up cracking the rear rim. In the rims defense I was hauling ass, and running 20psi. I'm 145ish pounds though and had never had problems running that pressure. It cracked at a seam at the valve core.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Ouch. I run my BTLOS 26.5" ID wheels at 20psi rear / 19 front and I weigh 185. No problems (or rim strikes) in the first 4 months, but I hope I'm not riding on borrowed time.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

CJB, That is great to hear. That is really light with those hubs! Which spokes did you go with? The sales manager has been amazingly communicative. Some of their rims are built right there and some others are cooperatively sourced, it sounds like. She guaranteed the ERD was exact, because I was concerned about ordering the CX Rays. I am excited to give them a try.


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## Energ8t (Sep 10, 2013)

I have some Nextie 29" 36mm carbon rims I built up with DT Swiss 350 hubs and supercomp spokes. I got the rims on eBay for a steal and decided to test the waters of carbon wheels. I've ridden them since last August with zero problems. True, light, bombproof, cheap. I ride them on pretty rough terrain up on Mt Wilson/LA area. A few weeks ago I was doing a Darkside shuttle (Sturtevant trail) and got a short but girthy stick timed just right which lodged in my front wheel and took out 5 spokes in about 2 seconds and already 2 miles downhill and many more from the finish. Surprisingly, I twisted the dangling spokes onto others checked the rim and wheel and was able to finish the ride no problem, albeit carefully. If the rims weren't carbon they likely would have collapsed from my weight, possibly injuring myself and likely wouldn't have been able to ride the remaining 6 miles. I just ordered new spokes and relaced the wheel with no problems; spoke holes were spotless. So this is a confirmation that cheap Chinese can hold up and perform better than expected and I think shows a benefit of carbon over alloy (in this situation).









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

That’s great to see. I’ve risen my carbon rims with one spike out with no issues - but that is quite a testament.


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Considering giving BTLos a go, got free shipping on the wheel which would equate to $106 in my case.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Energ8t said:


> I have some Nextie 29" 36mm carbon rims I built up with DT Swiss 350 hubs and supercomp spokes. I got the rims on eBay for a steal and decided to test the waters of carbon wheels. I've ridden them since last August with zero problems. True, light, bombproof, cheap. I ride them on pretty rough terrain up on Mt Wilson/LA area. A few weeks ago I was doing a Darkside shuttle (Sturtevant trail) and got a short but girthy stick timed just right which lodged in my front wheel and took out 5 spokes in about 2 seconds and already 2 miles downhill and many more from the finish. Surprisingly, I twisted the dangling spokes onto others checked the rim and wheel and was able to finish the ride no problem, albeit carefully. If the rims weren't carbon they likely would have collapsed from my weight, possibly injuring myself and likely wouldn't have been able to ride the remaining 6 miles. I just ordered new spokes and relaced the wheel with no problems; spoke holes were spotless. So this is a confirmation that cheap Chinese can hold up and perform better than expected and I think shows a benefit of carbon over alloy (in this situation).
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn, that is hardcore!


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

I spent 15 minutes on the chat function w EIE this evening and have an invoice in my inbox for their AM 30mm width 28 h 29ers w dt240 straight pull hubs and dt comp spokes. Did the star ratchet upgrade. $935 to my door. Think i am pulling the trigger, need to replace some other wheels where i stripped the ratchet ring and destroyed the rear hub.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

backinmysaddle said:


> I spent 15 minutes on the chat function w EIE this evening and have an invoice in my inbox for their AM 30mm width 28 h 29ers w dt240 straight pull hubs and dt comp spokes. Did the star ratchet upgrade. $935 to my door. Think i am pulling the trigger, need to replace some other wheels where i stripped the ratchet ring and destroyed the rear hub.


I am so impressed with the communication from EIE. Sounds like it will be a nice wheel set. I ordered the 30.5mm inner asymetric AM wheels but went with sapim cx-ray spokes. I am hoping they will ship out soon.

Good luck with your wheels.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

sunvalleylaw said:


> Picked up the bike and wheels today. Immediate test ride. Forgot to take a pic of just the wheels before they got dirty.  Loved 'em!


Hey, was popping back in as I am window shopping for another set of rims for a gravel/allroad bike I am considering saving for. * Anyone use a Carbonfan rim on their gravel or cross bike?? I am interested in a similar quality rim to what I have on my process, for this bike when I get it. Eyeing a Kona Libre, though they are sold out, and I will need to save up and order for next year.
*
As to my rims, I have done nothing to them, and when checked during tunes or suspension work, hardly any (if any at all) trueing has been necessary. And the rims still are in great shape and working very well. Mine were the blowout 35/30 Carbonfan ones that were not THE very lightest, but still light. I have ridden this bike a lot since I installed these rims in April of 2016 and they have delivered.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

EIE sent out a note on Monday that the wheels have shipped. Cant wait, my 29er rear wheel has a stripped ratchet ring and i just put a huge wobble in my 27.5 rear wheel on some huge cobbles in Palm Springs over the weekend. Probably can get it back close enough to ride for a couple weeks but definitely need to replace these aging sun/ringle wheel sets i bought 3 years ago as temporary wheels. .


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Vegard said:


> Considering giving BTLos a go, got free shipping on the wheel which would equate to $106 in my case.


Now is a awesome time for BTLOS, I have been riding mine for 6 months now with 0 issues, just relaced the rear to a new hub as well! The tubeless is amazing, I am able to seat my maxxis DHF and DHRII with a floor pump.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

My EIE wheels arrived today, man a week from shipping ex-china to my porch in Seattle! They are soooo sweet and light! Love the 54t upgrade on the dt240 hub. Only hiccup is I forgot they are centerlock and i only have 6bolt rotors around so had to 1 day amazon some new rotors. I really think i will like this 30.5mm ID, coming from 35mm ID which was a hair to much for my 2.5” width tires.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

I have been riding on my EIE 29" 30.5 mm Inner for about 50 miles now. With the Bitex hubs, CX Ray spokes, and brass nipples, they came to 1623 grams for the set!

I really like the Bitex hubs. The engagement is such an improvement from the stock DT Swiss 370 hub. The finish is nice and they seem to roll well. The one year old bearings in my DT hubs were also very slow and rough feeling when turning by hand. 

My friend built the wheels and he must have done a great job with tensioning because I haven't heard or felt one pop or ping from the spokes. 

The profile of the Minion DHF 2.5 WT looks just right. I am going to ride the Gunnison Half Growler this weekend so I am going to throw a Rekon 2.6 up front. I bet that tire will look huge on that rim. I will post some pics when I have a chance.


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

Sent an order to EIE. I've been wanting some wide UST rims and just couldn't find much for my 27.5 X 3.0 tires. That is until now. They make a 45mm (outer) 38mm (inner). They were only $700. That rocks.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Giant Warp said:


> Sent an order to EIE. I've been wanting some wide UST rims and just couldn't find much for my 27.5 X 3.0 tires. That is until now. They make a 45mm (outer) 38mm (inner). They were only $700. That rocks.


I don't think they make any UST rims...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

By UST I mean no spoke holes. All you have to do is specify it when ordering. No rim tape. Yay for me!


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Wow, I love these EIEs! Roughly 500 grams weight savings over old wheels, which I really noticed climbing yesterday. And the higher engagement of. The 240s hub w54t upgrade was amazing as well. One thing tho, ordered center lock style hubs and the lock rings didn’t come w the hubs, i had to buy them. Is that normal? EIE said it was, but I thought those rings come w the hub??

Also was my first time on carbon wheels and wow, there is no lateral flexibility in these. Takes a bit of getting used to how the bike tracks very differently down technical chunk and even a bit different into heavy G type berms. I’m 220+ so really noticed that.


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## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

Is anyone having any luck contacting Peter at XM Carbon Speed? Over the years I've bought several frames from him, as well as multiple rims, and at least 4 sets of complete wheels. Service has always been excellent and I've always received replies from Peter within a day. My last warranty issue with him about 2 years ago over a cracked rim was handled quickly. So just recently I cracked another rim on a wheelset I bought less than a year ago. It's been almost a week now since I sent an email to Peter and Bella about it. No response, which is unusual considering how responsive he normally is. It has me worried since I have so much of Peters product that I may not get support for anymore.

Has anyone been in contact with them recently?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Freerider said:


> Is anyone having any luck contacting Peter at XM Carbon Speed? Over the years I've bought several frames from him, as well as multiple rims, and at least 4 sets of complete wheels. Service has always been excellent and I've always received replies from Peter within a day. My last warranty issue with him about 2 years ago over a cracked rim was handled quickly. So just recently I cracked another rim on a wheelset I bought less than a year ago. It's been almost a week now since I sent an email to Peter and Bella about it. No response, which is unusual considering how responsive he normally is. It has me worried since I have so much of Peters product that I may not get support for anymore.
> 
> Has anyone been in contact with them recently?


How are you cracking rims?


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## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

Jayem said:


> How are you cracking rims?


This one was in Moab. I've had many carbon rims over the years and this is my second issue. Had far more issues running aluminum rims. Peter makes a good product that I have complete confidence in, and up until now had excellent service. Hoping he's just away on vacation or something...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Well, that mirrors my experience mostly, I have cracked one out of 11 carbon rims and that was because I wasn't running enough pressure. Otherwise, the stress they've held up to (and remained true!) is mind-blowing to me, compared to what I used to go through with aluminum. Nextie, LB, they all make a good product. I have an XM Carbonspeed fatbike frame and it's been great, heck, just raced yesterday to 11th in a gravel grinder (lol).


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## Freerider (Feb 18, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Well, that mirrors my experience mostly, I have cracked one out of 11 carbon rims and that was because I wasn't running enough pressure. Otherwise, the stress they've held up to (and remained true!) is mind-blowing to me, compared to what I used to go through with aluminum. Nextie, LB, they all make a good product. I have an XM Carbonspeed fatbike frame and it's been great, heck, just raced yesterday to 11th in a gravel grinder (lol).


Yep, I'm pretty sold on carbon rims. I've cracked 2 out of many now, and aluminum rims would've suffered the same fate in those instances. I've also had a couple fat bike frames from Peter, all have been excellent. No issues with Peter or his products. Just wanted to get a reply, which I got from him last night...


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## ultreia (Nov 2, 2010)

Hello, Does someone know about a 29er carbon rim with 595 ERD? I have two cracked Yishunbike ASD933XC-GP rims. I am looking for another option now.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

ultreia said:


> Hello, Does someone know about a 29er carbon rim with 595 ERD? I have two cracked Yishunbike ASD933XC-GP rims. I am looking for another option now.


The 28.61mm asymmetric 22mm deep 23mm internal width 28.61mm outer width XC 350g rims ($150 ea.) from TanTan are 595.6mm. I can help if you need.


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## ultreia (Nov 2, 2010)

sissypants said:


> The 28.61mm asymmetric 22mm deep 23mm internal width 28.61mm outer width XC 350g rims ($150 ea.) from TanTan are 595.6mm. I can help if you need.


The problem is that the inner size is too narrow...


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Well I now have on order a pair of Carbon Fan, rims only. They were the only brand that could provide a matching set that hit all the points that mattered to me. 28H Front, 32H Rear. 31mm ID F, 29MM ID R, AM layup F, DH layup R.
It'll be combined with some braided spokes and Project 321 hubs.

On Edit: Assymetric as well.

I already have a nice set of Nobl wheels with 321 hubs so this project is really about the braided spokes. I'm a WW that smashes parts on occasion. Looks like this project will save me in the neighborhood of 430 grams (.94#s!!) rotating weight. Hopefully I'll like the feel.

It's going to take about 6 weeks before this set up is rolling and frankly that'll be August in Texas and not really riding season.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Wow, Suns, those are some specific specifications! Can you post pics when you're done?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Schulze said:


> Wow, Suns, those are some specific specifications! Can you post pics when you're done?


Ya, sometimes I go a little over the top. Essentially I was trying to emulate Crank Bros Synthesis wheels the best I could because I agree with their philosophy.

I'll post up photos and weights when completed but it's going to be a good while.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Yeah, nice rim config Suns. Makes sense to me!


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## Tom_Tom_ (Jun 9, 2019)

An interesting 29er rim for only 325 gr


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'll also add that the AM front Carbon Fan wheel has a claimed weight of 400g, and the DH rear Carbon Fan wheel has a claimed weight of 430g.

The Nobl TR36 wheels I run now have a claimed weight of 440g.

Both have a claimed 3mm rim lip (going to the DH layup on CF.com, doesn't change their lip thickness, but I don't know if this is correct). Since I've cracked a rear NOBL TR36 in the rear already, the DH layup on the CF rear wheel seems like a smart move. Are the CF rims just better designed, or do they have less material owing to their lighter weight? I don't know.

But I do always run tire noodles (Pepi's) these days so I feel like I can get away with a bit more than I could when I broke the Nobl sometime back.

The ultralight weight hubs and rims that some use, are just not an option for me. I'm looking for Enduro capable.


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

Received my BTLOS standard Eduro, 29, Asym rims. They came nicely packed and, at first look, seem free of defect. Assembled them with DT swiss spokes and Hadley hubs (my previous DT Swiss 370 were all dented after 3 months, so I went with titanium. Hope they will last). Wheels are true, but I couldn't yet equalize tension across all spokes as I usually do. Will take a few rides and try again.

P.S.: I don't care about weight, so I haven't measured anything.


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## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

sunvalleylaw said:


> Anyone use a Carbonfan rim on their gravel or cross bike?? [/I][/B]


Had one of their skyweight? assym (285gm or so) 22mmInner 27.5 rims built up a few months back. Recently purchased the same rims but in a 29. Both for the gravel bike. Zero issues on mine. 1200gm and 1230gm. 
Now I'm looking at another 29 set with the same. Just. One. More. :nono:


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Tom_Tom_ said:


> View attachment 1257533
> 
> 
> An interesting 29er rim for only 325 gr


I actually just bought these rims laced to DT Swiss 350 Boost w/ 36t upgrade. Cx-ray spokes. Weight should be right around 1330g. $790 shipped.

Farsports


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

tangerineowl said:


> Had one of their skyweight? assym (285gm or so) 22mmInner 27.5 rims built up a few months back. Recently purchased the same rims but in a 29. Both for the gravel bike. Zero issues on mine. 1200gm and 1230gm.
> Now I'm looking at another 29 set with the same. Just. One. More. :nono:


Like Tangerine I have a set of the 22mm ID 27.5 on a XC race bike. Wheelset is under 1100g. I also built up the exact same in 29er but with asymmetrical. Wheelset is under 1200g.

No real issues with either. I did break the front 27.5, but I believe that was from the tire blowing off the rim. It seems that the bead broke on the tire. I ordered the same rim and rebuilt it back up and it has held up fine.

I weigh 165-175 neked


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Suns_PSD said:


> Well I now have on order a pair of Carbon Fan, rims only. They were the only brand that could provide a matching set that hit all the points that mattered to me. 28H Front, 32H Rear. 31mm ID F, 29MM ID R, AM layup F, DH layup R.
> It'll be combined with some braided spokes and Project 321 hubs.
> 
> On Edit: Assymetric as well.
> ...


So I have yet to see the Carbon Wheels wheels, but I can say the service and responsiveness from Arthur at Carbon Fans was fantastic, even when I put a change order in. And I have my tracking number.

I'm told the front AM wider layup weighs 413 grams and the rear DH narrow layup weighs 425 grams which is a good weight for the products I have. Just noticed I never noted that these are 29er wheels in my initial post.

I don't have the rest of the wheel build situated just yet so it could be a bit before I'm able to provide a final abuse test much less long term results.


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## drwuss (Jan 9, 2012)

Tom_Tom_ said:


> View attachment 1257533
> 
> 
> An interesting 29er rim for only 325 gr


What rim is this?


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## Tom_Tom_ (Jun 9, 2019)

drwuss said:


> What rim is this?


https://www.farsports.com/


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## Dbllock55 (Sep 9, 2015)

Just curious what you guys got in terms of updates? I gather it's a month-ish wait but are there status updates along the way or just when the wheels ship? Thanks in advanced!


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

Giant Warp said:


> Sent an order to EIE. I've been wanting some wide UST rims and just couldn't find much for my 27.5 X 3.0 tires. That is until now. They make a 45mm (outer) 38mm (inner). They were only $700. That rocks.


So I've had my new rims from EIE for about 6 weeks and around 300 miles. No problems so far. Really nice having them set up UST. They are boost and have dt swiss 350 hubs with 32 spokes. I bought them for an ebike and they are working well with a heavy bike and rider plus the extra torque on the drive train. Running low pressure of 14 to 16 psi tubeless and no burps. Here are a couple of pics with the weight at 1900 grams. They drilled the inner hole for the tubeless valve stem a little big but I was able to fix that by putting some old inner tube around the valve stem. They've been bashed pretty good by some rocks already and it hasn't left much of a mark. They seem to be more sure footed than my old 24 spoke rims from Roval. Cheers


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

Dbllock55 said:


> Just curious what you guys got in terms of updates? I gather it's a month-ish wait but are there status updates along the way or just when the wheels ship? Thanks in advanced!


Depends on your supplier. ICAN and BTLOS give you a date, and usually a few days before they send you a message that the goods are ready, sometimes even with pictures. They also send a tracking number. Then it's just like any other tracked package. You receive updates after every step. Some of them are less clear, "processed through facility", or something like that. But you usually receive confirmation when the package enters the country.


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## Dbllock55 (Sep 9, 2015)

fmendes said:


> Depends on your supplier. ICAN and BTLOS give you a date, and usually a few days before they send you a message that the goods are ready, sometimes even with pictures. They also send a tracking number. Then it's just like any other tracked package. You receive updates after every step. Some of them are less clear, "processed through facility", or something like that. But you usually receive confirmation when the package enters the country.


OOOOps sorry forgot to mention its BTLOS. I placed an order last week and havent really heard anything... if i log onto my account it just says COMPLETE under the status bar. Its not a big deal, was just curious what the process looks like. Im inpatient... its bad. Thanks for your reply!


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

Dbllock55 said:


> OOOOps sorry forgot to mention its BTLOS. I placed an order last week and havent really heard anything... if i log onto my account it just says COMPLETE under the status bar. Its not a big deal, was just curious what the process looks like. Im inpatient... its bad. Thanks for your reply!


You can contact [email protected] if you want.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

Dbllock55 said:


> OOOOps sorry forgot to mention its BTLOS. I placed an order last week and havent really heard anything... if i log onto my account it just says COMPLETE under the status bar. Its not a big deal, was just curious what the process looks like. Im inpatient... its bad. Thanks for your reply!


Take a look at the BTLOS thread in Wheels and Tires. There are a few posts about how long the process took.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Deleted by me.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I see that Nextie has some very attractive pricing for pairs on ebay, as low as $199 shipped for a 29er pair. I have Chris King hubs on my 26er shed bike; I could rebuild those with carbon rims and move those to the race hardtail, and put the old XT785/Stans wheels on a 'new' 29er shed bike (I have all the spares but a fork for the build). Also looking on ebay, it seems that spokes can be found for a reasonable price. I've 'rebuilt' several wheels on 26ers when the rims would wear out, plus do my own truing, I've got a nice Park stand. This seems like an upgrade project I could handle, and cost would be pretty minimal.


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

The rear duroc 50 on my stache is about toast after ~500 miles. Looking for some carbon wheels to lighten the bike up a bit, and higher engaging hubs. I built the following wheelset with EIE... any recommendations on tweaks? I'm 195-200 in my birthday suit, and mostly just ride this bike on local trails, with minor 1-2ft drops. This would be my first carbon wheel set, and i really dont know much about wheels in general, other than what i retrained reading through this thread

Rims - s29c45d22 (i45/50)

VersionPLUS480+/-15G)

Weave3K

FinishMatte

HUB

HUB BrandDT SWISS 350

Front Axle15*110mm Boost

Rear Axle12*148mm Boost

Brake System / Spoke Head6-Bolt / Straight pull

Holes Count F:28H / R:28H

Hub ColorBlack

Freehub BodySram XD

Ratchet54T

Spokes/Nipple

SpokeSapim Race

NippleBrass

Parts

DecalNone

Valve StemAdd Valve Stem

Tubeless TapeAdd Tubeless Tape
Pair

Weight: 1797+/-15g

Final total: USD 720


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Sapim race are round spokes? I.e. not bladed.

If I was going to use straight pull spokes, dunno if I'd use round ones. Maybe I'm not a very good wheel builder, but I struggle to stop round spokes from spinning.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

jimPacNW said:


> I see that Nextie has some very attractive pricing for pairs on ebay, as low as $199 shipped for a 29er pair. I have Chris King hubs on my 26er shed bike; I could rebuild those with carbon rims and move those to the race hardtail, and put the old XT785/Stans wheels on a 'new' 29er shed bike (I have all the spares but a fork for the build). Also looking on ebay, it seems that spokes can be found for a reasonable price. I've 'rebuilt' several wheels on 26ers when the rims would wear out, plus do my own truing, I've got a nice Park stand. This seems like an upgrade project I could handle, and cost would be pretty minimal.


I have some of these cheap Nextie, and they are good. Make sure you get angled spoke drilling. Some of them don't have it. Hit up cscbike for some cn424 spokes and you'll be set.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I received my Carbon Fan rims. They look fantastic. HOWEVER, they are clearly different models.

I ordered different layups and thickness front to rear but both listed as the same model online, but when they arrived they were different models.

Arthur of CF was accommodating (offered discounts etc to make it right) however they just don't make a matching set of wheels to the specifications I desire.

Ultimately it's not a big deal, the shape of my front and rear rims just look slightly different from one another.

Knowing this now, combined with a situation where I was going to be a tester for a new spoke system and that has now not worked out, I would have just ordered Crank Bros. Synthesis wheels if I could start over.

Live and learn.


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

sclyde2 said:


> Sapim race are round spokes? I.e. not bladed.
> 
> If I was going to use straight pull spokes, dunno if I'd use round ones. Maybe I'm not a very good wheel builder, but I struggle to stop round spokes from spinning.


I thought i saw a recommendation in this thread to go with sapim race for people 190+ lbs. So maybe i should plan to go with J bend instead of straight pull? I dont plan to work on these wheels at all myself....thanks for insight!


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> I received my Carbon Fan rims. They look fantastic. HOWEVER, they are clearly different models.
> 
> I ordered different layups and thickness front to rear but both listed as the same model online, but when they arrived they were different models.
> 
> ...


Did they send you a rim that had different dimensions than the one you ordered?

I would take the discounts or whatever he offered and just order another rim.

These are, after all, $200 Chinese rims. If you want it right the first time, you get the $600 name brand rims. If you don't get it right or they break, just buy a new one. You'll still come out ahead.


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

I think i'm settling on some EIE wheels, based on recent reviews, their prices and weights. I'm waiting to hear back from them with a couple of questions. My stache came with i45 durocs stock, which i think are fine. I run the stock 3" xr2s. Not sure if i should stick with i45s since it seems to work, or try i39. I tend to enjoy lower pressure around 10f/14r.

Also at my weight around 200lbs, i should definitely go with 32h right? I broke a few spokes on my stock wheel, not sure if it was due to 28h, or just an improper build. Im pretty easy on wheels, but do ride in some rocks/roots and hit minor drops.

Last question, should i go with j-bend spokes? And is one a better choice for my weight than another? (pillar 1420, sapim cx ray, sapim race, or DT comp 2/1.8/2)

Thanks in advance for a noobs first carbon wheel purchase!


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Schulze said:


> Did they send you a rim that had different dimensions than the one you ordered?
> 
> I would take the discounts or whatever he offered and just order another rim.
> 
> These are, after all, $200 Chinese rims. If you want it right the first time, you get the $600 name brand rims. If you don't get it right or they break, just buy a new one. You'll still come out ahead.


Well, one of the rims was a different model, the 'rain drop' which is in all fairness a more modern and probably higher quality model. It just doesn't match. And they don't make the 'raindrop' in a matching dimensions/ layup for the other end of the bike.

You are correct on the price, I'll probably reorder and just sell this one off for $100 or something.

Honestly the finish and quality looks amazing. Very nice product. And Arthur has been very communicative and helpful.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I spent quite a bit of time digging through Carbon Fans rather complicated catalog of products and I made a suggestions to Arthur (seriously this guy deserves an A++++++ for communication) of a different model of rim that looks just like the rear rim I have but also has the other layup and width attributes I desire.

So now I have a slightly discounted 29er Assymetrical 40mm OD/ 34mm ID, AM layup, 28H rim on order. For a front rim I slightly prefer this rim width actually so it works out well.

I will have a 29er waterdrop model in 31mm ID, 28H, AM layup for sell very soon. Unused, still in the box. Thinking $110 shipped in the USA.


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

Gendy said:


> The rear duroc 50 on my stache is about toast after ~500 miles. Looking for some carbon wheels to lighten the bike up a bit, and higher engaging hubs. I built the following wheelset with EIE... any recommendations on tweaks? I'm 195-200 in my birthday suit, and mostly just ride this bike on local trails, with minor 1-2ft drops. This would be my first carbon wheel set, and i really dont know much about wheels in general, other than what i retrained reading through this thread
> 
> Rims - s29c45d22 (i45/50)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the rep Gendy. I came here yesterday to give some feedback but didn't really have enough time to actually create the post.

You talk about riding local terrain, but didn't really mention what that terrain was like? I think you've made some good selections here: Sapim Race, Brass nips, DT hubs are all quality safe choices. The only area that gives me pause is the 28h spoke count. When building wheels its been noticeable how much having those 4 extra spokes help keep things stiff and sturdy. When you pre-stress the wheel during build-up by laying it on its side and flexing it to get things settled in, those 4 spokes make a difference. Likewise, IMHO those same 4 spokes when put on a gram scale....don't make that much difference. Get what I'm saying?

What was your goal with this wheel set? Mine was to build up a pretty lightweight set of everyday wheels that could be used (with lighter tires) as a race-day setup. I strongly contemplated going 28h myself. But in the end, the extra strength, bracing and load sharing (especially if a spoke breaks sometime) kept me at 32h. That said, I DID gamble with the pillar blades spokes and aluminum nips. But for a long-term sturdy purchase I think brass is very smart.

All that said, and I chose the i39 rim, mine came in at 1620 grams. I'd say this is about as light (or maybe even lighter) than I'd care to go with my budget and a 29 plus scenario.

Whatever the case, I think you'll be pleased with the EIE rim(s). I'm heading off to Colorado Saturday and threw mine back in the truing stand. Still super true (after 10 months of constant riding) and we have plenty of chunk around here...


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

CBaron said:


> Thanks for the rep Gendy. I came here yesterday to give some feedback but didn't really have enough time to actually create the post.
> 
> You talk about riding local terrain, but didn't really mention what that terrain was like? I think you've made some good selections here: Sapim Race, Brass nips, DT hubs are all quality safe choices. The only area that gives me pause is the 28h spoke count. When building wheels its been noticeable how much having those 4 extra spokes help keep things stiff and sturdy. When you pre-stress the wheel during build-up by laying it on its side and flexing it to get things settled in, those 4 spokes make a difference. Likewise, IMHO those same 4 spokes when put on a gram scale....don't make that much difference. Get what I'm saying?
> 
> ...


Wow - nice pic, thats chunky!

I'm in upstate NY and ride the stache on area trails which are mostly natural single track with rocks/roots. I spare it from the most technical trails and usually ride FS there. I like to pop off things in the trail the best i can, no major jumps/drops. I've only been riding around 3 years, and havent had any wheel trouble until i got the stache. I have broken multiple spokes in the rear, and it appears the nipples are now pulling through the rim in multiple places. Perhaps just bad luck on the initial wheel build, or subsequent repairs? I hope to shave a little weight off my bike, and see if it feels livelier with lighter/carbon wheels. My buddies 9.8 sure does. I have been enjoying the xr2s so i will likely stick with them, although i havent tried much else. I have been torn on the i39 vs i45 for months, but think i've finally decided to try i39s.

I agree about the spoke count, i have changed my pending order to 32h. I asked EIE about a spoke recommendation and they said DT competition. Not sure how much weight to put into that, but decided to go with it.

Thanks for the response!


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> I will have a 29er waterdrop model in 31mm ID, 28H, AM layup for sell very soon. Unused, still in the box. Thinking $110 shipped in the USA.


Trying to resist. I know if I bought this rim, I'd have to build up another bike so I could use it.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

BTLOS doesnt have the hub I want and are offering me a straight pull hub instead. 

Should I go straight pull? 

Which spokes should I get if I do?


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## xblitzkriegx (Jul 29, 2016)

use EIE instead. 

i purchased from them 1.5yrs ago and had a good experience. my wheelset is still in great condition and theyll build them however you want.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Schulze said:


> Trying to resist. I know if I bought this rim, I'd have to build up another bike so I could use it.


You have been saved. It's spoken for. 
Take care.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

I decided to get the BTLOS 30id with DT350 28H straight pull hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes.It should be a great build. 

Amy at BTLOS was very helpful and communicated very quickly. She worked hard to get this all sorted out (the issue of not having 28H Jbend DT350 hubs)


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Dropout33 said:


> I decided to get the BTLOS 30id with DT350 28H straight pull hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes.It should be a great build.
> 
> Amy at BTLOS was very helpful and communicated very quickly. She worked hard to get this all sorted out (the issue of not having 28H Jbend DT350 hubs)


What's the estimated weight on these? I'm looking for something light for my wife.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

SoCal-Rider said:


> What's the estimated weight on these? I'm looking for something light for my wife.


1613 +/-25g


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

SoCal-Rider said:


> What's the estimated weight on these? I'm looking for something light for my wife.


EIE id29 od35 Asym (identical to Nox Farlow dimensions, but 50g lighter per rim 380g) DT 240, 54t, Jbend, 6 bolt, brass nipples, tape and valve stems 1490g, = $1030 to your door.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

Just to compare the ones I ordered from BTLOS were $746 shipped to my door


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Thank you both for those data pts. It helps.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

The Carbon Fan rims I just purchased are absolutely flawless, I mean perfect.
Due to tariffs the price just went up about 25% however.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Where are you seeing the increased price? I'm looking at the 2019 XY rims, still $402 for a pair shipped. Went all the way to checkout at $402.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Schulze said:


> Where are you seeing the increased price? I'm looking at the 2019 XY rims, still $402 for a pair shipped. Went all the way to checkout at $402.


I paid considerably less than that 8 weeks ago for the same thing.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

huh. I bought the 2018 versions last year and they were the same price. I wonder if there was a sale going on in June.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> I paid considerably less than that 8 weeks ago for the same thing.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


EIE prices haven't changed.


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

Just received carbonfan wheelset yesterday 8-10-19. Did not pay any extra for a tariff. Rode them today and they are perfect. 30mm deep 29 wide 22 ID for my road bike. Weight was 1260 grams.


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

What do you guys recommend for rim tape and valve stems? My EIE wheels just came up, but didnt include, although i thought i specified to.
TY


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Tyvek tape, you just have to trim to size. I bought cheap ebay red presta stems and have no issues.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Stan’s or similar for the least fuss. Tyvek if you are going for weight weenie, it’s a bit difficult to work with and especially to remove.


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

My first time taping wheels, so the easier the better i think. In the past i've only installed the bontrager tubless rim strips. Is the stans sealant good too, or is there something better? My bonty stuff is just about empty, willing to try something else.. 

Thanks!


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Gendy said:


> My first time taping wheels, so the easier the better i think.
> Thanks!


It was my first time and it was pretty easy. Rims held air for two weeks before I added the sealant. Berryman tire sealant worked fine for me.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

Gendy said:


> What do you guys recommend for rim tape and valve stems? My EIE wheels just came up, but didnt include, although i thought i specified to.
> TY


I really like Kapton tape. It's cheap, easy to work with, seals well, and comes off without any residue. Before that I used Stans. 
As for valves I like Truckerco.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Gendy said:


> My first time taping wheels, so the easier the better i think. In the past i've only installed the bontrager tubless rim strips. Is the stans sealant good too, or is there something better? My bonty stuff is just about empty, willing to try something else..
> 
> Thanks!


Stan's sealant works great. I make my own sealant, but if I'm on vacation and need some, Stan's works just fine. The biggest issue is that it should be replenished every few months and maybe every 6mo take the tires off and clean out the stans boogers that inevitably form. If you hang the bike up for the winter, that is a good time to do it. Yeah, being it's your first time, don't screw around with the other tapes, Stan's will be the least frustrating. I found a cool way to make the hole for the valve-stem is to heat up a nail or similar with a lighter and use that to melt the hole, rather than try to tear the hole and end up with the tears that make it harder to seal. One other tip, make sure to put a tube in overnight when you install the rim strip, pump it up to 35-40psi. This will press the strip into the rim and help to prevent any sealant seeping through the strip. When it comes time to add the sealant (and remove the tube), pop only one side of the bead and fish the tube out, it will make seating the tire easier because one side is already set and add do the final work of setting the bead and adding the sealant before a ride. There's nothing like a ride to slosh the sealant all throughout the tire and seal up the bead. Otherwise it may go flat overnight.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

+1 for the Truckerco speed evolution valve stems. As a side note on valves, I've ended up with a cat food can on my bench where I put my clogged valve stems (latex sealant), I dump a little Naptha in there once in a while and I've got a nearly endless supply of clean valve stems.


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## primer29 (Jun 20, 2018)

Has any one used any of the Chinese carbon rims in an AM/ enduro setting? lots of rocks lots of roots many hard drops and square edges and some time questionable line choices?

Id love to go carbon for additional rigity on the bike but i cant afford the big boy names. Also i tried to read all the way through before asking im sorry if it has already been asked


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

primer29 said:


> Has any one used any of the Chinese carbon rims in an AM/ enduro setting? lots of rocks lots of roots many hard drops and square edges and some time questionable line choices?
> 
> Id love to go carbon for additional rigity on the bike but i cant afford the big boy names. Also i tried to read all the way through before asking im sorry if it has already been asked


Yup, I dont think alloy gives you a heck of a lot more protection in these settings. I have learned what my proper tire pressure is and as long as I dont drop into a rock garden with less than that, I'll be no worse with my EIE carbon wheels. Probably better though because as I reported upthread, what I really find is different about the carbon wheels is the ability to hold a line in chunky slop. These things have way more lateral stiffness and so you can point and go as opposed to finding yourself in a situation where a bit of flex leads you onto the wrong side of the next rock or root. I have 3 months of hard dry, rocky, summer riding on my EIEs, can't say I have one doubt about them other than questioning why I waited so long to pull the trigger!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

primer29 said:


> Has any one used any of the Chinese carbon rims in an AM/ enduro setting? lots of rocks lots of roots many hard drops and square edges and some time questionable line choices?
> 
> Id love to go carbon for additional rigity on the bike but i cant afford the big boy names. Also i tried to read all the way through before asking im sorry if it has already been asked


Are you kidding? I and many others have been racing these DH and Enduro for years. We say this and it sounds like a broken record, these rims are every bit as good as Envy, Reynolds, SC and whatever else.

If you don't run enough pressure to prevent rim-strikes, you will kill them (and aluminum rims too). The harder you ride, the more pressure you need. Many people learn this the hard way. For big hits, big impacts, I find them to be far superior, they don't get "knocked out of true" like aluminum.

About the only place I wouldn't run carbon rims as my primary wheelset would be South Mountain and Goat Camp in Phoenix, just so much solid rock and it gets kicked up easily, but having ridden all over the SW, PacNW, CO and many other states, other "rocky" terrain is usually not a concern.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

Jayem said:


> they don't get "knocked out of true" like aluminum


 I have wondered about that, I've built a number of wheels for myself, do my own truing (most of the time), but I've never built with a carbon rim. 
It seems that carbon could not 'take a bend' like aluminum (dismantle an alum wheel that has been trued once, and it the rim will not be straight), carbon would not be able to be bent like that (it would stay straight until cracked/failed), and if your spoke tension is even, it would simply have to be straight. - so you just check tension periodically?, no more odd tensions to get it true?


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## primer29 (Jun 20, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Are you kidding? I and many others have been racing these DH and Enduro for years. We say this and it sounds like a broken record, these rims are every bit as good as Envy, Reynolds, SC and whatever else.
> 
> If you don't run enough pressure to prevent rim-strikes, you will kill them (and aluminum rims too). The harder you ride, the more pressure you need. Many people learn this the hard way. For big hits, big impacts, I find them to be far superior, they don't get "knocked out of true" like aluminum.
> 
> About the only place I wouldn't run carbon rims as my primary wheelset would be South Mountain and Goat Camp in Phoenix, just so much solid rock and it gets kicked up easily, but having ridden all over the SW, PacNW, CO and many other states, other "rocky" terrain is usually not a concern.


Between Light bike or EIE which would you suggest or is there someone better at this point?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Light Bicycle has a great rep and is widely used.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jimPacNW said:


> I have wondered about that, I've built a number of wheels for myself, do my own truing (most of the time), but I've never built with a carbon rim.
> It seems that carbon could not 'take a bend' like aluminum (dismantle an alum wheel that has been trued once, and it the rim will not be straight), carbon would not be able to be bent like that (it would stay straight until cracked/failed), and if your spoke tension is even, it would simply have to be straight. - so you just check tension periodically?, no more odd tensions to get it true?


That's it, and every once and a while I check the tension/true-ness, but they just stay true and I have nothing to fix. I think the resistance to "big hits" is much greater than aluminum, the kind of stuff that would knock your wheel out of true, not a rim impact, but mega-hits to the wheel. Building them is a dream too, I start getting OCD trying to take out fractions of a millimeter that would never be possible with aluminum.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

I just received my BTLOs wheel set. they are WM-I30 rims, 28 hole, DTSwiss 350 straight pull center lock hubs, with Sapim CX-ray spokes. 

Everything is perfect, no defects, of any kind. 

Front wheel is 758 grams
Rear wheel is 883 grams

Total weight is 1641

Total price to my door was $746.34


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## Black89 (Jun 8, 2009)

I did not get a chance to read the whole thread so I apologize ahead of time if it's been covered.

These will go in my Tallboy 3, mostly rough XC, lots of roots and rocks though with some 4ft drops and jumps. Typical east coast AM riding too. I have a DT Swiss with 54T ratchet already I think I can transfer over. 

How does the below setup from BTLOS look? What is the AM vs EN selection do?I didn't notice a difference.

WM I 30A
Rim Size: 29erSeries:
PremiumVersion: 
AM
Finish: MatteWeave: 
UDSpoke Count: 32H/32H
Hi Type of: DT SWISS 240SRatchet: Default
Hub Color: Black
Front of Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
Freehub: SRAM XD
Brake Interface: 6-bolt ( Disc )
Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
Spoke System: Straight pull
Nipple: Brass BlackDecal colors: Black


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

Black89 said:


> How does the below setup from BTLOS look? What is the AM vs EN selection do?I didn't notice a difference.


It's on their page:


> Premium: AM 450+/-15g ; EN 470+/-15g


EN is 20g heavier, because it's stronger.


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## Black89 (Jun 8, 2009)

fmendes said:


> It's on their page:
> 
> EN is 20g heavier, because it's stronger.


Thanks couldn't find it anywhere. I will just do the EN build, I would rather have stronger than lighter. Will post pics when they arrive.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Dropout33 said:


> I just received my BTLOs wheel set. they are WM-I30 rims, 28 hole, DTSwiss 350 straight pull center lock hubs, with Sapim CX-ray spokes.
> 
> Everything is perfect, no defects, of any kind.
> 
> ...


Hard to beat that.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Checking in to say that my 29er rims from light bikes are about to have their 6TH birthday next week. I've been thinking about getting wider rims for at least 2 years but just kept telling myself I'd wait until one broke... still hasn't happened. I can't believe how many rock strikes these rims have endured. The one rim has been laced to 3 different rear hubs in the time I've had it.

I'm building up a new 27.5 bike soon and i'm torn about whether to stick with light bikes because the first set outperformed my expectations by a mile, or save about $200 and go with Nextie. Decisions decisions...


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

How wide, 92gli? Nextie has some "promotion" i30 rims for a nice price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/PROMOTION-...hash=item3fc9877496:m:mw6S4Jcz_NIcJDsZeYO70sg


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## choneofakind (Sep 15, 2019)

I have two sets of chinese-made carbon wheels right now and both are great.

1) nextie 45mm aero hoops on my road bike laced to I9 road hubs. 
2) 226 Sources house brand 30mm inner hoops on my MTB laced to I9 straight pull torch hubs.

Both are great! Initial quality impressions were very good, and I'm comparing to my previous ZIPP and I9 wheelsets. So far they've taken to some beating in pisgah without any issues. Even the wheel guy at my LBS was really impressed with them for how easily and how well they built up. He's previously used Light-bicycle on his personal wheels and he said these built up better.

A friend of mine runs 226Sources, he's the one who got me hooked on Nextie products (I was originally very hesitant to get on the chinese carbon wheel train because broken wheels in Pisgah means a lot of hiking) and his own house branded wheels are great as well. I have nothing but good things to say about either wheelset I have that use chinese carbon and I would definitely not be afraid of Nextie. 
https://www.facebook.com/226Sources/
https://www.instagram.com/226sources/

*Disclaimer, no I have not been compensated in any way to share this information. I'm just stoked about my wheels and want to see a friend's business succeed. Double whammy by sharing here.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Schulze said:


> How wide, 92gli? Nextie has some "promotion" i30 rims for a nice price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/PROMOTION-...hash=item3fc9877496:m:mw6S4Jcz_NIcJDsZeYO70sg


Yeah, eyeing those in 27.5. Don't think they have angled drilling but neither do the light bikes rims I've been riding for 6 years and I've never had a broken nipple (I always build with brass though). That price is fantastic!


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

oh I figured you wanted 29 since this is the 29er components forum.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Yesterday at the bike park, despite a DHF and HR2, my tires just weren't tough enough for the sharp rocks. They weren't the DH casings, but still pretty tough, the carnage included one sliced tire (HR2) and having to put 3 plugs (in different places) in the front due to sharp rock punctures. But the rims just laugh it off.


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## jwick (Jan 31, 2013)

Schulze said:


> How wide, 92gli? Nextie has some "promotion" i30 rims for a nice price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/PROMOTION-...hash=item3fc9877496:m:mw6S4Jcz_NIcJDsZeYO70sg


Thanks for sharing the deal. That was too good to pass up. Just ordered a set this morning. This will be my first Nextie set. I've been rolling on various LB and CarbonBicycle.cc carbon hoops for years. Hope they are at least as good. I haven't had any issues with the straight drilled rims either (also on brass nips) and I'm 93kg.


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## MAngel2 (Jul 16, 2011)

Stay away from Light Bicycle. Their warranty program sucks. I have a pair of wheels with INine hubs built up this year and the rear wheel developed a huge crack. 30/35 RM29307 model with the heavier build. Crack was right by spoke area. Sent in to warranty and no dice. Sorry, only crash replacement with with a whopping 19 dollars off and I pay for shipping. No crash, no rock strike, just normal riding. Waste of money.

Light Bicycle Wheels are cheap and poorly made and their warranty sucks as they don't honor it.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

I would still buy Light bicycle even though they don't warranty their rims. They're cheap enough and the problems rare enough to play the odds.


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## jwick (Jan 31, 2013)

Schulze said:


> I would still buy Light bicycle even though they don't warranty their rims. They're cheap enough and the problems rare enough to play the odds.


I feel the same.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Anybody have luck getting free shipping from BTLOS? I want a dt350 gravel set. $70 shipping puts these out of reach....


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

Dirt Road said:


> Anybody have luck getting free shipping from BTLOS? I want a dt350 gravel set. $70 shipping puts these out of reach....


I sent you a message


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Dirt Road said:


> Anybody have luck getting free shipping from BTLOS? I want a dt350 gravel set. $70 shipping puts these out of reach....


Curious about this as well. 
I'm planning to order a wheel set and a set of rims.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

MAngel2 said:


> ....
> 
> Light Bicycle Wheels are cheap and poorly made and their warranty sucks as they don't honor it.


Well, of course they're cheap - this whole thread is about cheap rims.

That said I've had great results with LB rims as well as 3 sets of rims from Carbonbicycle.cc. Currently planning to purchase some from BTLOS.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

On BTLOs When I spun the wheel I got free shipping


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Which vendors tend to have Black Friday sales?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Which vendors tend to have Black Friday sales
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've found they almost all do but it's not massive. Just ask for a discount... They usually negotiate.

Last year speedsafe had super low prices on AliExpress for singles day. 11/11.


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## Tristan Wolf (Oct 21, 2019)

Am I crazy, for not wanting to take Chinese carbon rims into consideration? I mean, yes they are cheaper, and they are not necessarily weak/flawed. And yes, brand name rims/wheels are a lot more expensive and not necessarily strong/flawless.

BUT (it’s a big but). Every time I go trail riding, I risk my health and my life considerably. I really want that piece mind, knowing there is a lot higher chance my rims are not made of leftover carbon sheets, and are laminated with high quality resin, and properly cured. Also I’m not obsessed with carbon. So I am more happy with high quality alloy wheels. Finally, performance-wise carbon, if not really thought through, makes for an very unforgiving ride. And In my head that is no clear advantage over really good alloy wheelset, that happens to be 100-200g heavier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Tristan Wolf said:


> Am I crazy, for not wanting to take Chinese carbon rims into consideration? I mean, yes they are cheaper, and they are not necessarily weak/flawed. And yes, brand name rims/wheels are a lot more expensive and not necessarily strong/flawless.
> 
> BUT (it's a big but). Every time I go trail riding, I risk my health and my life considerably. I really want that piece mind, knowing there is a lot higher chance my rims are not made of leftover carbon sheets, and are laminated with high quality resin, and properly cured. Also I'm not obsessed with carbon. So I am more happy with high quality alloy wheels. Finally, performance-wise carbon, if not really thought through, makes for an very unforgiving ride. And In my head that is no clear advantage over really good alloy wheelset, that happens to be 100-200g heavier.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In a word, yes. Read through this whole thread, and see if you can find one catastrophic failure. Any failures reported in this thread caused by a hit would have likely tacoed an aluminum wheel. The carbon wheels are a bit lighter then aluminum, but they are much stiffer than any aluminum wheel. Stiffer wheels track better, and are more efficient Weight is only a part of the equation.


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## Tristan Wolf (Oct 21, 2019)

Captain_America1976 said:


> In a word, yes. Read through this whole thread, and see if you can find one catastrophic failure. Any failures reported in this thread caused by a hit would have likely tacoed an aluminum wheel. The carbon wheels are a bit lighter then aluminum, but they are much stiffer than any aluminum wheel. Stiffer wheels track better, and are more efficient Weight is only a part of the equation.


Sure, but first of all - carbon brakes unpredictably. Second - the thread is contains word (cheap) in its name. If I had more disposable income I would buy the best carbon wheelset I could find. Third - they took our jobs (LOL)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Tristan Wolf said:


> Sure, but first of all - carbon brakes unpredictably. Second - the thread is contains word (cheap) in its name. If I had more disposable income I would buy the best carbon wheelset I could find. Third - they took our jobs (LOL)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Everything breaks unpredictably. Carbon as a wheel material will build a stronger wheel than aluminum. Cheap refers to price, not quality. In the very beginning QC was an issue for some manufacturers, but that ended fairly quickly. It's easier and cheaper for them to do good QC rather than eat shipping on replacements. 
Read the thread, and make up your own mind. I have been on carbon wheels for 5+ years with no issues. I have owned/ridden 27.5+, 29, 29+ and fatbike. I will never ride aluminum wheels on an MTB by choice. I don't ride my road bike enough to warrant carbon hoops. If I did I would upgrade to Light Bicycle or Nextie carbon rims.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Tristan Wolf said:


> Sure, but first of all - carbon brakes unpredictably. Second - the thread is contains word (cheap) in its name. If I had more disposable income I would buy the best carbon wheelset I could find. Third - they took our jobs (LOL)
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've broken carbon frames, seatposts, bars, saddles, and one rim, from expensive name brand to generic. None of them broke in an unpredictable fashion. This makes sense because carbon is a composite made of load distributed through many fibers. You can crack half the fibers and the other half take up the load.

I have the money and I don't waste it on expensive carbon rims. Why? Because 5 minutes on the trail on a new wheelset and there are limestone chunks bouncing off my brand spanking new rim putting gouges and scratches in them. There also not any worse than the expensive stuff.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Tristan Wolf said:


> carbon brakes unpredictably.


This I agree with, a few people have been trying to make carbon fiber brake rotors for mountain bikes and they don't brake worth beans.


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## Tristan Wolf (Oct 21, 2019)

Jayem said:


> This I agree with, a few people have been trying to make carbon fiber brake rotors for mountain bikes and they don't brake worth beans.


They work on cars, but on cars they are massive. That would beat the purpose of having light bike rotors. And they would be crazy expensive for something that is not meant to last long anyway.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Tristan Wolf said:


> They work on cars, but on cars they are massive. That would beat the purpose of having light bike rotors. And they would be crazy expensive for something that is not meant to last long anyway.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, they don't, they don't make carbon FIBER brakes for cars. Therein lies the problem, the process to make those type of brake rotors is extremely expensive and intensive, a set of rotors can cost around $30K, depending on the car. Different process than carbon fiber.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm looking for a set of carbon rims but don't seem to find any that fit the criteria:

-Asymmetric
-18-22mm profile height
-3mm+ beads
-27-30mm internal width.

I've checked all the usual suspects but can't find any. If anyone has any tips pointers?


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Carbonfan Waterdrop model


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

So I just cracked an EIE A29C30D28S, pretty sure its the exact same rim as the carbonfan waterdrop (exact same rim profile). I've had the wheels for 3 weeks (10 rides), not running any inserts but I haven't felt a rim strike. I weigh 160 pounds with gear, was riding my sb100 at grahm swamp in Florida (chunkyish but low speed) 2.6 maxxis rekon 120tpi exo at 25 psi in the back. Had already done a lap and was on my second when on short chunky downhill I heard the loudest crack. Wasn't braking or in a g out just a sandy chunky downhill. Stopped to check and rim was cracked and leaking a bit of stans but no hiss. 0 damage to tire.

So yea now I'm trying to decide what to do. I'm going to keep the eie on the front because well its the front and I'm light. However really thinking I should go with something sturdier in the rear. I guess I could warranty with EIE, but I'm strongly leaning towards weareone, (maybe santa cruz also) I think for me the peace of mind and lack of hassle will be worth the added cost/weight. If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears, but mainly wanted to share my experience, if you're heavier and like to bomb I'd strongly recommend a heavier/stronger rim, these rims are light xc only imo. I'm just glad it happened at low speed in florida and not when I'll be at pisgah this weekend.

Link to picture (**** quality i can get more pics if people want): https://photos.app.goo.gl/tPynKaUygeCci9Nq5


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

Oh also, would like to add before this set I was on cheap set of aluminum raceface ar27 wheels for 6 months (60+ rides, mostly in chunky fast TN mtns) with either 2.4 or 2.6 recon from 23-27 psi. I had one bad rim strike that lead to a flat, but other than that 0 issues no dings or flat spots. Not saying the raceface wheels were any good or that i prefer alu, just saying I'm not hard on my wheels or equipment.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Jayem said:


> the process to make those type of brake rotors is extremely expensive and intensive, a set of rotors can cost around $30K, depending on the car. Different process than carbon fiber.


No. Some of the best are 1800-2500 a rotor for replacement cost on most Vettes and Ferraris which use Brembos. 5k puts a set and calipers on cars without them if one shops.

Most do not cost that much, and the ones that do are for the ultra rich multi million dollar cars mortals do not get.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Ive been running cheap ebay carbon rims 30mm ID with powerway hubs and having great success. Trick is running tires with a hair more pressure than normal. Cuts down on bad rim strikes.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Outhouse said:


> No. Some of the best are 1800-2500 a rotor for replacement cost on most Vettes and Ferraris which use Brembos. 5k puts a set and calipers on cars without them if one shops.
> 
> Most do not cost that much, and the ones that do are for the ultra rich multi million dollar cars mortals do not get.


$2500 a rotor is 10K for 4. Yes, it's an expensive process for real carbon (not carbon fiber hack) rotors. Whether it's aftermarket, or OEM, which can easily run 30K for a set. It's a totally different product and process than cutting some rotors out of carbon-weave sheets. Look it up on wiki if you don't understand.


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## choneofakind (Sep 15, 2019)

adurant said:


> I'm just glad it happened at low speed in florida and not when I'll be at pisgah this weekend.


I live 15 minutes from the pisgah ranger station and those are my go to trails. I'm on Nextie rims without any issues, laced to I9 hubs with 28 spokes on each wheel. I'm not the most aggressive or rowdiest rider, but I hit my fair share of things fast/hard/often. I've also hit rocks hard enough to pinch flat and destroy my rear tire, but the rim is still perfect.

I think you just need a rim that's more suited to your use, doesn't necessarily have to be a more expensive rim. A similar rim (width) to your EIE is this:
https://www.nextie.com/premium-mountain-29-inch-NXT29XM35
Notice how your EIE was 360g, where these are 435g.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Jayem said:


> It's a totally different product and process than cutting some rotors out of carbon-weave sheets. .


Im not arguing that point. I agree.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Jayem said:


> $2500 a rotor is 10K for 4. .


Sorry they are down top 1250-1500 for a single rotor. I have been wanting to put these on my Z06 for a while now. Again 5k buys a set and calipers for the whole car.

Racers hate them due to replacement cost, and use the stock steel rotors for track days. Better racers will use metal floating rotors. No one on the track uses carbon, its sort of street bling, but suits my purpose of canyon carving.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Outhouse said:


> Again 5k buys a set and calipers for the whole car.


13k, on sale from 16k!

And yes, it's true that GM is doing it for less money than the traditional Ferrari and Porsche products, despite this, you are still looking at 10-fold or more times the cost of a steel rotor. The main point being, the process to make these is not like simple carbon fiber, as a few of the people pushing "mountain bike carbon rotors" would have you believe. If you look at how these were made on the weight weenies forum you'd see they are dangerous at best, but then again you have fools there using cork as brake pads.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

1250 for a single rotor, and if you did not know Ferarri and GM often use the same Brembo rotor. So GM is not doing anything for less. And I understand it is ceramic carbon fiber and is not what can be bought cheap. I never argued that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-13-Co...909861?hash=item4b63bd7ce5:g:-KoAAOSwHGFcy2RW


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## C-H (Jan 25, 2018)

Jayem said:


> This I agree with, a few people have been trying to make carbon fiber brake rotors for mountain bikes and they don't brake worth beans.


Of course they won't work.
A carbon/ceramic rotor needs to be hot to work.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

C-H said:


> Of course they won't work.
> A carbon/ceramic rotor needs to be hot to work.


They don't make carbon/ceramic rotors for bikes, there's a few people peddling carbon fiber rotorss, which are not the same thing and which don't work because they have no heat resistance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforced_carbon–carbon

Carbon brake rotors on cars are not carbon fiber like your bike frame.


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## kameramandan (Aug 5, 2019)

I thought this thread was about wheels


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

CS645 said:


> I'm looking for a set of carbon rims but don't seem to find any that fit the criteria:
> 
> -Asymmetric
> -18-22mm profile height
> ...


Have Asyms (big fan) but not that wide, 25mm IDs. Very very happy w/ them


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## adurant (May 31, 2019)

adurant said:


> So I just cracked an EIE A29C30D28S, pretty sure its the exact same rim as the carbonfan waterdrop (exact same rim profile). I've had the wheels for 3 weeks (10 rides), not running any inserts but I haven't felt a rim strike. I weigh 160 pounds with gear, was riding my sb100 at grahm swamp in Florida (chunkyish but low speed) 2.6 maxxis rekon 120tpi exo at 25 psi in the back. Had already done a lap and was on my second when on short chunky downhill I heard the loudest crack. Wasn't braking or in a g out just a sandy chunky downhill. Stopped to check and rim was cracked and leaking a bit of stans but no hiss. 0 damage to tire.
> 
> So yea now I'm trying to decide what to do. I'm going to keep the eie on the front because well its the front and I'm light. However really thinking I should go with something sturdier in the rear. I guess I could warranty with EIE, but I'm strongly leaning towards weareone, (maybe santa cruz also) I think for me the peace of mind and lack of hassle will be worth the added cost/weight. If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears, but mainly wanted to share my experience, if you're heavier and like to bomb I'd strongly recommend a heavier/stronger rim, these rims are light xc only imo. I'm just glad it happened at low speed in florida and not when I'll be at pisgah this weekend.
> 
> Link to picture (**** quality i can get more pics if people want): https://photos.app.goo.gl/tPynKaUygeCci9Nq5


So I finally got around to emailing EIE about warranty (I wasn't expecting much.) Well they emailed me back within a couple hours and are sending me a new free replacement rim. I had them change it to the slightly heavier 400g (instead of 360g) version. Felt pretty good about their service and it could've been a fluke, so I also ordered the 460g version of the same profile to put on the rear of my upcoming sb150. I'll update with ride impressions and any issues I run into.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

adurant said:


> So I finally got around to emailing EIE about warranty (I wasn't expecting much.) Well they emailed me back within a couple hours and are sending me a new free replacement rim. I had them change it to the slightly heavier 400g (instead of 360g) version. Felt pretty good about their service and it could've been a fluke, so I also ordered the 460g version of the same profile to put on the rear of my upcoming sb150. I'll update with ride impressions and any issues I run into.


That's good to hear EIE is taking care of you. I'm in the market for a lightweight 30mm-ish wheelset for my wife and like those EIE rim specs. I'll admit though, reading about your cracked rim issue did make me second guess their durability. A 360g rim is really light though.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

I have had good luck with Light Bicycle RM29C19 (395g, 24mm internal width) rims over the past 18 months of XC/endurance/bikepacking. Just ordered another pair for a Son 28/Chris King wheelset build. I realize these narrow rims don't follow the popular trends, but for how inexpensive they are, I've found them to be durable. I'll be running them with 2.1 Thunder Burts up to 2.6 XR2 (which is a pretty narrow 2.6).


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## NilsliN (Dec 12, 2019)

I purchased EN733 carbon rims from Light Bicycle as a backup wheelset. I weigh about 140#, ride E13 tires, inflated to about 25 PSI. I have averaged about 2500+ miles/year with 500,000 feet of descending/year for the past 4 years on an S-Works Enduro. My go to wheels are the Roval Tranverse SL, which I have cracked and have had warrantied, but otherwise I have had no complaints or issues. 

I put these on in October 2019 and in less than 20 rides, I cracked the rim on trails that I always ride. Light Bicycles has refused to warranty them, when clearly these are defective rims as there is no scratch or cosmetic damage to the rim. 

The primary questions for Light Bicycle rims was always their quality control and then the issue of their customer service. As these reportedly had improved in recent years as well as now offering a "3 year warranty," I purchased these rims. Sadly, the long held suspicion regarding poor customer service and quality control, with a useless warranty has held true. The rims may cost less than others, but it's really just a roll of the die regarding the product that you get. Good luck.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

NilsliN said:


> I purchased EN733 carbon rims from Light Bicycle as a backup wheelset. I weigh about 140#, ride E13 tires, inflated to about 25 PSI. I have averaged about 2500+ miles/year with 500,000 feet of descending/year for the past 4 years on an S-Works Enduro. My go to wheels are the Roval Tranverse SL, which I have cracked and have had warrantied, but otherwise I have had no complaints or issues.
> 
> I put these on in October 2019 and in less than 20 rides, I cracked the rim on trails that I always ride. Light Bicycles has refused to warranty them, when clearly these are defective rims as there is no scratch or cosmetic damage to the rim.
> 
> ...


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

most of these carbon rims come from the same place, you just get companies that cherry pick the better looking ones as sort of a means for quality control and jack up the price. I just get mine from china and get them cheap, that way there is no crying when you chunk one, and your still far ahead of buying expensive ones here state side that come from the same factories.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Sucks that LB wouldn't warranty your rim, and not defending them in any way, but I am sure they have their reasons.

I haven't ever purchased from LB because they are over priced relatively speaking for what they offer. You are paying more for a "name brand" in a non brand market.

If I was ever to buy a set of LB wheels I would just end up buy SC Reserve wheels and forget about it since the price difference is not that drastic and there is an actual warranty.

Now getting livid over breaking a maybe $200 rim and then not getting warrantied? No way. 
I don't expect these wheels to break, but I also don't expect a warranty program that is on par with a boutique brand. Again if that is what I wanted and needed I wouldn't be buying these wheels.

P.S. 
Look at BMC fork recall. All **** breaks, even the expensive stuff. Cycling Tips has a pretty good podcast on the fork issue and why it (breakage) can happen. I would assume the same can be said for wheels.

P.S.S. I actually have had a catastrophic Chinese carbon wheel break, however it was from a large name brand (not Asian) tire company's bead breaking and the tire coming off the rim. ENVE or Velocity rims would have suffer the same fate.

P.S.S.S. 
Just took delivery of a Farsports 34mm ID, Dt Swiss 350, Cx-ray wheelset sitting at 1621g all for $670 to my door. I could break three full wheelsets of these before I reach boutique prices. Life is good.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

yourrealdad said:


> P.S.S.S.
> Just took delivery of a Farsports 34mm ID, Dt Swiss 350, Cx-ray wheelset sitting at 1621g all for $670 to my door. I could break three full wheelsets of these before I reach boutique prices. Life is good.


Can you provide some more details on your Farsports wheels? These sound like exactly what I've been looking for.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

SoCal-Rider said:


> Can you provide some more details on your Farsports wheels? These sound like exactly what I've been looking for.


https://www.wheelsfar.com/29-5er-40...cher-with-dt350s-boost-model-fs29t-40-33.html

This is what I bought. I got my price I quoted because it was 11/11. But they have free shipping now which is nice. You can also checkout their aliexpress store.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/103713

If you email Angela she is super helpful and can usually meet any requests. or changes you want made. I suggest double checking your order with her.

My wheels do not have internal spoke holes which is a first so I am excited to try them out.

Let me know what other questions you have about Farsport Wheels. I currently have 4 pairs ranging from MTB, Gravel, and Road. I have had others in the past as well. All faultless.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

For ppl that have had full wheels built up, are you having to tension spokes properly and such or are they ready to ride? I assume i would take to my LBS to check to verify everything is good.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

ready to ride, and after a 400 miles of some serious abuse, mine are still perfect


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

darrylruddock said:


> For ppl that have had full wheels built up, are you having to tension spokes properly and such or are they ready to ride? I assume i would take to my LBS to check to verify everything is good.


I mounted my Btlos i30 29er rims. Dead quiet and that is rare as I'm a Clyde at 280. Usually, I get some spoke noise on most new wheels. The set I replaced were a pair of syncros Scott OEM wheels that drove me insane with the spoke noise even from brand new. I'm amazed at the stiff precision of my new wheels. At 280, engineered compliance is not something I see as a positive.... lol


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

So i think this is what i have settled on. I'm 180 in gear with mostly east coast XC type trails with shorter up and downs with some roots and smaller rocks gardens mostly at lower speed thrown in. Nearly no drops or jumps.
Rim Size: 29er
Series: Premium
Version: AM
Finish: Matte
Weave: UD
Spoke Count: 28H/28H
Hub Type: DT SWISS 350
Ratchet: Upgrade 36T
Hub Color: Black
Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
Freehub: Shimano Microspline
Brake Interface: Center Lock ( Disc )
Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
Spoke System: J-bend
Nipple: Brass Black
Decal colors: None

From BTLOS and weight is ~1510. Almost 400g saving from my stock IBIS S35 aluminum wheels. 820 right now with free shipping to Canada. Should be a 3.5% tax on this.
Any suggestions or advise? I know some might say to go 32 spoke but that put weight up to 1550 and I'm mentally set on 1500 to justify the upgrade in my brain...lol
Seems like a pretty decent deal with the free shipping.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

^^^ If you truly care about building them to the lightest weight, then spend the extra dough to drop the additional 70g and go with 240 hubs. Right! It’s only money!


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

Chicane32 said:


> ^^^ If you truly care about building them to the lightest weight, then spend the extra dough to drop the additional 70g and go with 240 hubs. Right! It's only money!


Ha Ha I know i priced that out also and the other mental barrier is to stay as close to possible to 1000 CAD and its already 1070 at current exchange rate. That puts it closer to 1500 than to 1000. I already have to use creative payment methods to slide the full cost past my wife as she still gripes about the 5k USD i just spent on the bike!


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

darrylruddock said:


> Ha Ha I know i priced that out also and the other mental barrier is to stay as close to possible to 1000 CAD and its already 1070 at current exchange rate. That puts it closer to 1500 than to 1000. I already have to use creative payment methods to slide the full cost past my wife as she still gripes about the 5k USD i just spent on the bike!


You can always say that 5k only paid for something incomplete, and you need more components to make the bike work as you intended...

If you wnat to go really light, you can also consider the Berd spokes. Serious weight saving.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

darrylruddock said:


> For ppl that have had full wheels built up, are you having to tension spokes properly and such or are they ready to ride? I assume i would take to my LBS to check to verify everything is good.


I have checked all of my wheels that come prebuilt and they are true and even. No issues.


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## TTUB (Nov 9, 2010)

Has anyone built a set of Light Bicycle AR28 rims?
They hit a number of check boxes for me. 
Advertised as a 'Gravel rim'... I'd be using them for a 'road' build.
Super light at 380g and Asymmetrical. PSI up to 130psi, so they should be good to go for wider (28c) road tires.

Any thoughts or experiences appreciated.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Anyone used farwheel/wheelfar recently?

These seems to be the best deal of all similar sites for this kind of wheels atm: https://www.wheelsfar.com/29er-36mm...-dt240s-28h-28h-boost-model-fs29ct-36-28.html (29er 36mmx28mm MTB wheels with DT240S 28H/28H Boost Model: FS29CT-36-28)

wondering if anyone purchased from them recently


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

boubla said:


> Anyone used farwheel/wheelfar recently?
> 
> These seems to be the best deal of all similar sites for this kind of wheels atm: https://www.wheelsfar.com/29er-36mm...-dt240s-28h-28h-boost-model-fs29ct-36-28.html (29er 36mmx28mm MTB wheels with DT240S 28H/28H Boost Model: FS29CT-36-28)
> 
> wondering if anyone purchased from them recently


Go back a page. #8996 and keep reading


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

yourrealdad said:


> Go back a page. #8996 and keep reading


hah yeah i just wanted to see if there's more than one person, but i do appreciate what you posted


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

We got some experience with sereval types of rims ordered from AliExpress.









Some rims were hardly used, some rims were recieved and checked

In general, all rims (except 26) were good regardless of type and price. No problems with shipping.

Item: 29 rims, assymetrical, 25 internal width, 310 gramms (real - 310 and 312 gr)

Shop: A-ONE Bicycle Co

XC racers choice, lightweight, tubeless

Link: Ali Express

More photos: https://alibuy.biz/2019/07/23/chinarims25/


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

Item: SPEEDSAFE 29 rims, 28 internal width, 350 gramms (no real rim weight data)

Shop: A-ONE Bicycle Co

90+ kg XCO\XCM racers choice. One pair was used and hardly abused in 2019 season. No problems so far. Tubeless

Update: one rim was hit by rock and was damaged. rim need to be repaired or replaced. tire did not deflated after incient

Link: AliExpress


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

Item: 29 rims, assymetrical, 25 internal width, 320 gramms (real - 314, 320, 321,323)

Shop: A-ONE Bicycle Co

"Default" rim if you don't know what you want. Has 2mm higher profile than 310gr rim

Link: Ali Express


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

deleted. duplicate.


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

global said:


> Just received carbonfan wheelset yesterday 8-10-19. Did not pay any extra for a tariff. Rode them today and they are perfect. 30mm deep 29 wide 22 ID for my road bike. Weight was 1260 grams.
> View attachment 1271009
> View attachment 1271009
> View attachment 1271009


Hey Global, which CarbonFan Wheelset did you order? I love my CF rims that I had built up with DT-Swiss 350s for my 29er and now want a set for a Kona Libre I have coming for gravel and road use. I would like to also use the 350's for this bike. The 67 gram savings is not worth it to me.

Or can anyone else recommend a decent set of gravel bike wheels with 350's?


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## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

yourrealdad said:


> Sucks that LB wouldn't warranty your rim, and not defending them in any way, but I am sure they have their reasons.
> 
> I haven't ever purchased from LB because they are over priced relatively speaking for what they offer. You are paying more for a "name brand" in a non brand market.
> 
> ...


@yourrealdad , I came into this thread looking for what might be the right set of wheels for a Kona gravel bike I will be ordering soon. Seems like Farsports may have what I need in a 700c gravel/cx set with the same hubs and spokes as you are running for a similar price. Any thoughts or advice as what wheel to get? Paved road and hard dirt with some kitty litter and occasional river rock in the road, maybe a little sand sometimes will be the riding condition.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

sunvalleylaw said:


> @yourrealdad , I came into this thread looking for what might be the right set of wheels for a Kona gravel bike I will be ordering soon. Seems like Farsports may have what I need in a 700c gravel/cx set with the same hubs and spokes as you are running for a similar price. Any thoughts or advice as what wheel to get? Paved road and hard dirt with some kitty litter and occasional river rock in the road, maybe a little sand sometimes will be the riding condition.


This is the set of Farsport wheels I have on my Niner RLT RDO Gravel bike:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977811571.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.18.2e254ca1h1gNFg

I went with the DT Swiss 350 SP CL 28H set up. Obviously you can mess around with which disc mount and spoke number you want. I also went with the FSC40CM-30T-DSL for the hookless bead, but if you want a different height or rim ID you can look at the other options. Should be $700 shipped.

Also emailing Angela is a great place to start as well, she is super helpful.


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

I jumped on the LB DT240/Recon promo they had back in January. They were clearing out DT240 hubs and thier regular Recon rims for $850 USD pls shipping for a fully assembled wheelset. Normally thats a fair price for an import carbon wheelset with budget hubs, but with 240's, its a great deal. What was even better is that they were building and shipping out of the Canadian HQ so i received mine in about a week once built. I spec'd mine with 29" hoops (AM933 was the model), 33mm ID, D-light spokes, valves, fully taped and ready to go. LB claimed 1680g for the pair and it measured out exactly that. A good deal lighter than my al S35 Ibis wheels, but the lateral rigidity is way better. There's so much flex in the Ibis wheels, you can grab the S35 while mounted on the bike and flex it over till the tire damn near touches the seat stay whereas the carbon LB rim barely budges. So while the Ibis wheel is fairly light for AL, it clearly gives up a lot of rigidity to achieve this. I appreciate the directness of these wheels given the type of riding we do here.


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

*Carbonfan 30mm gravel*













Sorry it took so long to see your post. Now have about 3000 miles on wheels trouble free. Running tubeless 28mm conti 5000s.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

My EIE carbon 29ers are stuck in China until another shipping option is figured out. China Post is suspending shipments to anywhere that is still ramping up with COVID-19 cases, including the US.

Crazy times.




























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

glad i saw your post 
been thinking about pulling the trigger on a 29+ set-up from EIE
There don't seem to be a ton of 29+ rim options in the cheap Chinese eco-system



isleblue65 said:


> My EIE carbon 29ers are stuck in China until another shipping option is figured out. China Post is suspending shipments to anywhere that is still ramping up with COVID-19 cases, including the US.
> 
> Crazy times.
> 
> ...


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

threepin said:


> glad i saw your post
> been thinking about pulling the trigger on a 29+ set-up from EIE
> There don't seem to be a ton of 29+ rim options in the cheap Chinese eco-system


I will say that Pretty Fang, sales manager at EIE is super communicative and helpful. She gave me the option of FedEx shipping the wheels, and she covered 40% of the cost, which was double what China post charged. So an extra $54 from me and the wheels are once again on the way.

There were few options for 34mm ID rims which I wanted to stick with since I'm replacing the same on my Ripmo. The EIE wheel set with DT 240 hubs save 1/2 pound over stock alum Ibis wheels, and I'm really looking forward to the improved stiffness.

The Aluminum 938s are quite flexy and soft.

I will report back on EIE first impressions after riding.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

thanks
i was looking at the 39mm id as i wanted 3.0 tires to be well supported and maybe the option of a something like a duro crux 
i'll shoot pretty an email as i am curious about parts stock esp as i need microspline.on a 240s
their weights and price were competitive.

i can't for the life of me understand china post not doing export.
if goods are safe to handle domestically they are safe for export. Too, the viability of the virus is said to be well less than the shipping time



isleblue65 said:


> I will say that Pretty Fang, sales manager at EIE is super communicative and helpful. She gave me the option of FedEx shipping the wheels, and she covered 40% of the cost, which was double what China post charged. So an extra $54 from me and the wheels are once again on the way.
> 
> There were few options for 34mm ID rims which I wanted to stick with since I'm replacing the same on my Ripmo. The EIE wheel set with DT 240 hubs save 1/2 pound over stock alum Ibis wheels, and I'm really looking forward to the improved stiffness.
> 
> ...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

isleblue65 said:


> I will say that Pretty Fang, sales manager at EIE is super communicative and helpful.


She wouldn't happen to be building a fighting force of extra-ordinary magnitude, would she?


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

What do you guys think of these:

https://www.wheelsfar.com/ultraligh...heels-with-dt240s-boost-hub-sapim-cx-ray.html

?

I don't see the inner dimensions but assuming they are around 25 if they're 30 wide external?


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

Isleblue,
what was your build timeframe?
How quickly did pretty reply? just waiting on word back on whether they have all the items in stock, especially the micro spline free hub as that seems to have been in short supply
Came down to BTLOS vs EIE in the 39ish mm internal range with EIE claiming a lighter weigh and lower cost.
BTLOS seems to have a slightly longer track record and a much higher weight rating on the wheel



isleblue65 said:


> I will say that Pretty Fang, sales manager at EIE is super communicative and helpful. She gave me the option of FedEx shipping the wheels, and she covered 40% of the cost, which was double what China post charged. So an extra $54 from me and the wheels are once again on the way.
> 
> There were few options for 34mm ID rims which I wanted to stick with since I'm replacing the same on my Ripmo. The EIE wheel set with DT 240 hubs save 1/2 pound over stock alum Ibis wheels, and I'm really looking forward to the improved stiffness.
> 
> ...


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

I’m looking to build a set in the 1250-1300gram range. Happy to pay for quality name brand hubs. Will be doing east coast xc riding and like to hi occasional small drop or small jump but too much of a skeerdy cat to hit doubles (there aren’t many around here anyway). 

Which wheelset would you recommend I look at?


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## miles of pain (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm looking at EIE wheels and a little lost - I want something about 30mm wide, and I ride hard on Colorado trails - not much bike park but we did just get a new DH flow trail that I hit a lot.

EIE only rates their rims for AM or DH, and I feel I'm probably somewhere in between. Light is good though! So do you think the AM rims will be enough for my use?

Specifically I'm looking at the A29C30D28S - 30.5mm wide, 28mm deep, asym.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

miles of pain said:


> I'm looking at EIE wheels and a little lost - I want something about 30mm wide, and I ride hard on Colorado trails - not much bike park but we did just get a new DH flow trail that I hit a lot.
> 
> EIE only rates their rims for AM or DH, and I feel I'm probably somewhere in between. Light is good though! So do you think the AM rims will be enough for my use?
> 
> Specifically I'm looking at the A29C30D28S - 30.5mm wide, 28mm deep, asym.


I ride in front range co and on my 2nd set of eie rims. I always went for am version. Both are at around 30id asymetrical. 1 set on my hd3 and 2nd set on ripley v4. 0 issues with either set. I even had a hard hit on ripley hiting rock, pinching tire and cuting it in 2 spots. Loud bang, but the rim still solid, just a little scrape on the bead bit no ding or other damage.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Zachua said:


> What do you guys think of these:
> 
> https://www.wheelsfar.com/ultraligh...heels-with-dt240s-boost-hub-sapim-cx-ray.html
> 
> ...


Email Angela and ask her wha the ID is. She is very helpful. I have had no issues with my Farsport wheels.
You can also check out their Aliexpress store. They have more wheels on that site than their own usually.

Here is a chart off of their Ali store


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

threepin said:


> Isleblue,
> what was your build timeframe?
> How quickly did pretty reply? just waiting on word back on whether they have all the items in stock, especially the micro spline free hub as that seems to have been in short supply
> Came down to BTLOS vs EIE in the 39ish mm internal range with EIE claiming a lighter weigh and lower cost.
> BTLOS seems to have a slightly longer track record and a much higher weight rating on the wheel


Feb 20 order placed, March 20 shipped via FedEx.

Pretty always responded within 9 or 10 hours, and usually between 2 and 9am, US Pacific time.

The cost of the complete wheel set was not much more than the retail price of the DT 240 hubs with 54t freewheel and Sapim Race J bend spokes and brass nipples.

I told her my riding style and weight (210#), and she assured me these would be more than tough enough. They come with a 2 year warranty. Within 6 months, they pay shipping, after 6 months, they pay half of shipping.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

anyone had any luck getting info from EIE lately?- i have tried the chat function a couple of times with no reply or email back- i had some email issues so i tried leaving 2 different addresses
If anyone has an email for Pretty or someone else there and could post it or PM it I would appreciate it.



isleblue65 said:


> Feb 20 order placed, March 20 shipped via FedEx.
> 
> Pretty always responded within 9 or 10 hours, and usually between 2 and 9am, US Pacific time.
> 
> ...


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Delete


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## Grodyman (Sep 29, 2016)

Considering the holy hell unleashed on the world due to the Chinese government's suppression, I personally will never consider buying cheap crap from china any longer as much as I can. It will be hard, but it is the right thing to do. Anyone buying these products, I hope it works out well for you.
Gman


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Grodyman said:


> Considering the holy hell unleashed on the world due to the Chinese government's suppression, I personally will never consider buying cheap crap from china any longer as much as I can. It will be hard, but it is the right thing to do. Anyone buying these products, I hope it works out well for you.
> Gman


^
Spam


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## MikeInPA (Mar 18, 2017)

Grodyman said:


> Considering the holy hell unleashed on the world due to the Chinese government's suppression, I personally will never consider buying cheap crap from china any longer as much as I can. It will be hard, but it is the right thing to do. Anyone buying these products, I hope it works out well for you.
> Gman


Yeah, that'll teach 'em. I hope other countries don't "punish" the US for any of its perceived failures and lack of transparency 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grodyman (Sep 29, 2016)

MikeInPA said:


> Yeah, that'll teach 'em. I hope other countries don't "punish" the US for any of its perceived failures and lack of transparency
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Excellent moral equivalency. Go buy some cheap rims.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Grodyman said:


> Excellent moral equivalency. Go buy some cheap rims.


Considering many name brand carbon rims come from Chinese contract manufacturers (of which there are only a few factories producing them, using many of the same layup molds), if you have carbon wheels, you've very possibly bought a Chinese product. Even Santa Cruz contracts their Reserve wheels to an Asian manufacturer.

The smaller companies live and die on reputation, and any that hope to last go out of their way to make sure their customers are happy. The same factory workers who build one brand build another in many cases, and molds are rented by less established manufacturers. Designed by larger brands.

So go ahead and pay for marketing, a US headquarters, distributors and other markups. EIE wheels are warrantied for 3 years, so obviously not lifetime like the Reserve, but they have better hubs and I could buy two sets complete for the cost of one set of Reserves.

I'll take my chances. You make a political statement and empty your wallet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

All this holy rolling moral grandstanding reminds me of Snowden broadcasting from Mother Russia. Yes you’re morally correct, but the rest of the world would love to have your 1st world philosophical high ground from which to argue. Spare me...


Loving the 45mm aero road tubeless rims from light-bicycle year after year. I’m rebuilding them with disc hubs for the next bike. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grodyman (Sep 29, 2016)

chomxxo said:


> All this holy rolling moral grandstanding reminds me of Snowden broadcasting from Mother Russia. Yes you're morally correct, but the rest of the world would love to have your 1st world philosophical high ground from which to argue. Spare me...
> 
> Loving the 45mm aero road tubeless rims from light-bicycle year after year. I'm rebuilding them with disc hubs for the next bike.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Glad you love them, comrade. I'm sure they are wonderful and cheap. That's really all that matters. Best of luck.
Gman


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

Anyone want to give their thoughts on BTLOS vs EIE?
right now price is quite similar and weights within a 100 grams or so with the EIE lighter but they rate at max rider wt of 130 vs the premium BTLOS at 180kg BTLOS rim is a slightly deeper section
Btlos 
https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/asymmetric-39mm-internal-plus-bike-rims
EIE
https://www.eiecarbon.com/a29c39d25-mountain-bike-carbon-rims.html
thoughts?


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

threepin said:


> Anyone want to give their thoughts on BTLOS vs EIE?
> right now price is quite similar and weights within a 100 grams or so with the EIE lighter but they rate at max rider wt of 130 vs the premium BTLOS at 180kg BTLOS rim is a slightly deeper section
> Btlos
> https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/asymmetric-39mm-internal-plus-bike-rims
> ...


They are so close I'd be hardpressed to recommend one over the other. When I was in the market, EIE and BTLOS were the final two companies I selected between. I went with BTLOS and have no regrets. I suspect you would be perfectly happy with EIE as well. I value durability over lightweight, so based on my experience and bias I would go with BTLOS. But I suspect either will do just fine for you. If you aren't close to the 130kg weight limit, then it might make more sense to go for the EIE rims.


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## mpaschinger (Apr 8, 2020)

After all the research I did, over the past few weeks, I finally pulled the trigger and ordered a wheelset from EIE. I got the A29C30D28S wheels with DT Swiss 240 hubs. I got the wheelset with shipping for 1100 bucks. I looked into a bunch of different companies, and I narrowed it down to BTLOS and EIE. I also looked into Light Bicycles and other very well known brands. I went with the EIE over the BTLOS because of the weight difference. BTLOS were a little bit cheaper but 200g heavier. The rim profiles are very identical, comparing BTLOS, LB, EIE, or under brands. So I don't think that the other companies are worse or better than EIE. All of them get excellent reviews from most peoples. 

Since people are having difficulties getting a hold of EIE via their web chat and I just wanted to confirm that I had the same issues. Anyway, after I waited for a while every time somebody eventually answered all of my questions and the person was very nice and professional. I am sure it's just as rough of time for them as it is for us.

I am not sure when I will receive the wheels, but I will try to update you guys when I get a few rides in.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

I got my wheels after some challenges with China Mail suspending deliveries to countries that were early in the COVID-19 cycle (not sure why, as parcels are handed over to national postal services at or before arrival in destination countries). Then FedEx held the wheels in China for 2 weeks. 

The wheels look great. High quality in all the detail and build, but I can’t ride them because parks are all closed. They are hanging from my garage ceiling. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mpaschinger (Apr 8, 2020)

Deleted


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## mpaschinger (Apr 8, 2020)

isleblue65 said:


> I got my wheels after some challenges with China Mail suspending deliveries to countries that were early in the COVID-19 cycle (not sure why, as parcels are handed over to national postal services at or before arrival in destination countries). Then FedEx held the wheels in China for 2 weeks.
> 
> The wheels look great. High quality in all the detail and build, but I can't ride them because parks are all closed. They are hanging from my garage ceiling.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am curious about which wheels you got from EIE. I just ordered a set with DT swiss 240 hubs with 54 T, 30.5mm internal width superlight version, and Sapim D-light spokes. I ride an Ibis Ripmo as well. The weight of the wheels is supposed to be around 1450g. I can't wait to get them.
I am looking forward to shaving off some serious weight. I am also getting rid of my NX cassette and cranks and will replace them with X01 cranks/cassette. I am looking to shave off about 2lb after everything is set and done.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

mpaschinger said:


> I am curious about which wheels you got from EIE. I just ordered a set with DT swiss 240 hubs with 54 T, 30.5mm internal width superlight version, and Sapim D-light spokes. I ride an Ibis Ripmo as well. The weight of the wheels is supposed to be around 1450g. I can't wait to get them.
> I am looking forward to shaving off some serious weight. I am also getting rid of my NX cassette and cranks and will replace them with X01 cranks/cassette. I am looking to shave off about 2lb after everything is set and done.


That will be some serious weight savings!

My Ripmo is the GX build. 
Here's my EIE build (goal was balance of durability and weight savings)
Rim：A29C34D25 34mm internal width (AM :430+/-15g,UD,Matte,32H,with black EIE decals)-2pcs
Hubs T Swiss 240s(15*110mm,12*148mm),6-bolt ,J-bend ,SRAM XD,54T
Spoke :Sapim race 
Nipples: black brass

1584g which saves 0.8# from Ibis 938 wheels. I weigh 210# (plus 5# these days since I'm not riding much), so durability over ultra light weight. I ride hard.










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## AZ_John (Jan 3, 2012)

Does anyone have experience with Nextie's Premium Lite rims? I'm interested in the 27mm internal for my SB100, but a little worried that the 320g weight and T1000 may be too rigid and/or brittle to be reliable and durable. I'm about 170 w/o gear, looking to race BCBR next year, and like to pretend I'm Nate Hills on a pseudo xc bike. 

Alternatively, Nextie's Premium 27mm id rim is 370g, has a slightly thicker bead wall, and made of T800/700 (I ignorantly assume this to be more durable). This seems like a more practical choice, but weight is a factor and the price is close enough to not be a consideration. 

Thanks!


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

AZ_John said:


> Does anyone have experience with Nextie's Premium Lite rims? I'm interested in the 27mm internal for my SB100, but a little worried that the 320g weight and T1000 may be too rigid and/or brittle to be reliable and durable. I'm about 170 w/o gear, looking to race BCBR next year, and like to pretend I'm Nate Hills on a pseudo xc bike.
> 
> Alternatively, Nextie's Premium 27mm id rim is 370g, has a slightly thicker bead wall, and made of T800/700 (I ignorantly assume this to be more durable). This seems like a more practical choice, but weight is a factor and the price is close enough to not be a consideration.
> 
> Thanks!


My take is I stayed away from Nextie because they are over priced and went with EIE because they worked with me on my build weight. I29 identical dimensions as Nox Farlow and I couldn't tell the difference between the two in build quality. EIE i29 premium rims weighed 360g and AM weighed 400g. I had them build me a custom set in between at 380g T700/800(I weigh 185) DT Swiss 240,Sipham, 6bolt, Jbend, Alloy nipples, 54T-1490g with tape/stems. Cost $1030 shipped. Had them on my SB100 now on Ripley V4. 500 miles so far without issue.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

AZ_John said:


> Does anyone have experience with Nextie's Premium Lite rims? I'm interested in the 27mm internal for my SB100, but a little worried that the 320g weight and T1000 may be too rigid and/or brittle to be reliable and durable. I'm about 170 w/o gear, looking to race BCBR next year, and like to pretend I'm Nate Hills on a pseudo xc bike.
> 
> Alternatively, Nextie's Premium 27mm id rim is 370g, has a slightly thicker bead wall, and made of T800/700 (I ignorantly assume this to be more durable). This seems like a more practical choice, but weight is a factor and the price is close enough to not be a consideration.
> 
> Thanks!


I raced some similar 290g rims hard last season and the season before (but not quite as hard). I'm similar weight, was only a few lbs lighter. IMO, they should hold up, as long as you aren't being stupid with them, like not running enough pressure, using for enduro/really nasty stuff/big jumps.

The other classic way you could do this is get the rear rim in the stronger version, front rim in the lighter version. The rear sees more abuse and needs to be built stronger compared to the front, so an ideal wheelset is not the same front/rear rim, spokes and everything else. It ends up that way most of the time due to price and ease of manufacture.

The SB100 could go either way. If you already have a wheelset for normal riding, then that would be more on the side of going for the lighter rims.


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## AZ_John (Jan 3, 2012)

Good advice Jayem. Thanks! I think I'll split the baby as you recommend. The bike came with trail-oriented wheels & tires that I plan to keep and use on burlier terrain.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Something to note, which is a big deal to me - these EIE wheels were the easiest to mount tires on (all by hand), and set up tubeless, inflated with a floor pump with valve stem installed without leaking any air on inflation. 

This is amazing. I have a set of WTB wheels that require an air compressor to inflate - so no chance of running tubeless on the trail after a flat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

Max tire width of 2.4 on my frame. What internal rim width should I be looking at?


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

13 hours left for 29 rims (assymetrical, 29 internal) on sale

at least one wheelset was built on them - no problems so far

rims were 385 and 401

244 usd \ 2 rims


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Anybody have a coupon code for nextie or btlos?


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

92gli said:


> Anybody have a coupon code for nextie or btlos?


I was very close to pulling trigger on a set of btlos superlight wheels a couple weeks ago and emailed them to see if there might be any coupons coming out soon (mothers day maybe?) but they said due to the 'rona the shipping costs had gone up (there were only certain carriers operating at moment so their options were fewer) and they couldn't really knock any more off the price.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Zachua said:


> I was very close to pulling trigger on a set of btlos superlight wheels a couple weeks ago and emailed them to see if there might be any coupons coming out soon (mothers day maybe?) but they said due to the 'rona the shipping costs had gone up (there were only certain carriers operating at moment so their options were fewer) and they couldn't really knock any more off the price.


Yeah, I just ordered a new frame and so was looking for wheels and both BTLOS and Farsports upped the shipping and prices ended up being around $800 for a set of wheels with 350 hubs, which is my standard go to.

Knowing I would upgrade the star ratchet to at least the 36t if not 54t and that is another $100, I was looking at around $900 for the wheelset.

Right now Backcountry has 20% off and so I went with the i9 101 enduro wheelset. Will probably come out about 1/2lb heavier than the Chinese carbon, but it will be $300 dollars cheaper, higher engagement, and supporting a US company making their product in the US. Worth it at that point.


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

Just got a "basic" carbon rims for beginner!

I`ve got

Novatec D791SB hubs (front hub 15x100, rear hub 142)
Pillar 1415 spokes
XD driver

326 USD, shipping included Link to Ali Express

Package was badly damaged

















Fortunatelly no visible damage was found. Anyway, wheels will be taken to bike wheel builder to check tension and check them in details

Few pictures


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

Looking for any critique on the wheels I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on.
I had a bad rim strike on Sunday and my IBIS S35 rim is dented pretty good. Going to just throw a tube in to keep me running for now. It's worth noting that I'm typically easy on rims and this is my first time ever getting a flat. Rider 175 and riding more XC/trail east coast kind of trails. I also don't plan to run anything over 2.4 wide.

My build: WM-I29A
Rim Size: 29er
Series: Premium
Version: AM
Finish: Matte
Weave: 12K
Spoke Count: 32H/32H
Hub Type: DT SWISS 350
Ratchet: Upgrade 36T
Hub Color: Black
Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
Freehub: Shimano Microspline
Brake Interface: Center Lock ( Disc )
Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
Spoke System: J-bend
Nipple: Brass Black


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## Davdibar (May 5, 2020)

I've just had a very similar pair delivered from BTLOS two day ago, except with the 52T upgrade.

One (very minor) thing to watch out for - it seems that the DT 350 hubs are only available in black with white markings, whichever option you select on their website.

Other than that, so far they seem fine. They arrived round and true, and I've only got 75km on them so far, but they feel great to ride on.

Shipping was slightly delayed, but that's to be expected at the moment. Amy from BTLOS replied quickly and accurately to all of my emails during the ordering and delivery process.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Davidibar, what carrier delivered them? I've been waiting on some rims for a while now.


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## Davdibar (May 5, 2020)

Mine came via Fedex.

I tracked them en route. They went dark for a few days, but then turned up in Japan, then back to Hong Kong, and finally to Switzerland via Belgium and France.

Edited to add:

Ordered 26 April
Confirmed 27 April
Shipped 15 May
Delivered 25 May


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

darrylruddock said:


> Looking for any critique on the wheels I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on.
> I had a bad rim strike on Sunday and my IBIS S35 rim is dented pretty good. Going to just throw a tube in to keep me running for now. It's worth noting that I'm typically easy on rims and this is my first time ever getting a flat. Rider 175 and riding more XC/trail east coast kind of trails. I also don't plan to run anything over 2.4 wide.
> 
> My build: WM-I29A
> ...


That looks like a perfect build to me.

I have a similar build that I got in the spring of 2018 that I've had great luck with over the past couple years. My rims are 27.5", 37mm outer / 32mm inner with 28 spokes, but the rest is the same. 350 centerlock hubs are hard to beat as they are similar to the 240s in weight but at a fraction of the cost. The 6-bolt versions are were the weight really adds up. My total wheelset weight is just under 1,500g and I've had some hard strikes with zero damage. My ride weight is roughly 180 to 185 and I ride some rough and rooty trails.

One thing that I noticed of the CX-Ray (DT Aerolite) spokes is that they tend to get bent a little easier. They are plenty strong enough but out of the 3 wheelsets in my house that run them, there are more bent spokes versus the wheels with DT Comps. Not sure if it's due to the spokes themselves or just bad luck with those wheels.

If you want to ditch the white 350 decals, Slik Graphics makes some great replacements in any color you want. 
https://www.slikgraphics.com/collections/rim-decals/products/dt-swiss-350-hub-decal-kit


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## Davdibar (May 5, 2020)

BXCc said:


> If you want to ditch the white 350 decals, Slik Graphics makes some great replacements in any color you want.
> https://www.slikgraphics.com/collections/rim-decals/products/dt-swiss-350-hub-decal-kit


That's awesome, thanks. I've just ordered a set of decals in red.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

darrylruddock said:


> Looking for any critique on the wheels I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on.
> I had a bad rim strike on Sunday and my IBIS S35 rim is dented pretty good. Going to just throw a tube in to keep me running for now. It's worth noting that I'm typically easy on rims and this is my first time ever getting a flat. Rider 175 and riding more XC/trail east coast kind of trails. I also don't plan to run anything over 2.4 wide.
> 
> My build: WM-I29A
> ...


My apologies but the freehub that will work on my V4 Ripley with shimano SLX 12sp is the Microspline yes? Sorry, I know nothing about these things...


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

darrylruddock said:


> My apologies but the freehub that will work on my V4 Ripley with shimano SLX 12sp is the Microspline yes? Sorry, I know nothing about these things...


Yes. 12sp Shimano uses Microspline. If you have a DT Swiss hub on your other build, you can easily pull that freehub body and transfer to your new as well. DT Swiss are fantastically modular that way and super easy to service/upgrade.

That will be a very solid wheel build. No real suggestions other than i personally haven't built wheels with CX-Rays or other bladed spokes on MTBs for cost/benefit reasons. If built well, you just don't have many fatigue issues and tend to kill the rims before the spokes which usually will require a rebuild anyway. DT Comps, DT Race Comps, or Wheelsmith DB14 are excellent and 1/3 the price. Just my two cents.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

wildh said:


> Yes. 12sp Shimano uses Microspline. If you have a DT Swiss hub on your other build, you can easily pull that freehub body and transfer to your new as well. DT Swiss are fantastically modular that way and super easy to service/upgrade.
> 
> That will be a very solid wheel build. No real suggestions other than i personally haven't built wheels with CX-Rays or other bladed spokes on MTBs for cost/benefit reasons. If built well, you just don't have many fatigue issues and tend to kill the rims before the spokes which usually will require a rebuild anyway. DT Comps, DT Race Comps, or Wheelsmith DB14 are excellent and 1/3 the price. Just my two cents.


Thanks for the feedback-they are IBIS hubs.
I just noticed that most ppl on the BTLOS thread were building with the CX ray
The only options for spokes are:
Option
Type	Weight (260mm)
Application
Sapim Race
Butted
5.7g
XC, AM, DH
Sapim D-light
Butted
4.8g	XC, AM
Sapim CX-Ray
Aero
4.4g
XC, AM, DH
Pillar X-TRA 1420
Aero
4.4g
XC


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

The Sapim Race spokes are equivalent to a DT Comp or Wheelsmith DB14. They are a good default spoke. The D-light model has thinner butting (1.65mm at center versus 1.8mm) and shorter segments at the 2.0mm thickness; together this saves about 25g per wheel.

CX-Rays are great spokes but not necessary. The additional shaping (for aero shape) has the beneficial consequence of adding strength and fatigue resistance, despite their low weight. They will save about 45g per wheel versus Race spokes. Compared to the similar weight (but not aero) Laser models, they are WAY easier to build with since the bladed shape helps fight spoke wind-up. The upcharge for CX-Ray at BTLOS is actually pretty reasonable (~$1.25/spoke) compared to the $3+ per spoke retail price for CX-Ray many places in U.S.

Careful w/ the centerlock brake hubs in your spec . . . all Ibis hubs I've ever seen were 6-bolt, so if you want to re-use the same rotors, you'll want 6-bolt.

Also, if you have that new of a Ripley (v4) then I would contact Ibis and ask for an informal "crash replacement" deal on a new rim. I'd bet they will offer you a rim for half price or so. That's your fastest path to riding without a tube again. All you should need is new nipples; lacing over to a new rim is easier than building from scratch, so a shop charge should reflect that.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

amer_ua said:


> 13 hours left for 29 rims (assymetrical, 29 internal) on sale
> 
> at least one wheelset was built on them - no problems so far
> 
> ...


Still available at that price. Includes free shipping to USA. Have you personally used these rims? Did they seat tubeless easily? (in past experience, that's one red flag on the cheaper carbon options: I've encountered some that were so tight to fit tires that I couldn't even mount several brands; others have been so loose that a compressor (or equivalent boost reservoir) is needed.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

InertiaMan said:


> The Sapim Race spokes are equivalent to a DT Comp or Wheelsmith DB14. They are a good default spoke. The D-light model has thinner butting (1.65mm at center versus 1.8mm) and shorter segments at the 2.0mm thickness; together this saves about 25g per wheel.
> 
> CX-Rays are great spokes but not necessary. The additional shaping (for aero shape) has the beneficial consequence of adding strength and fatigue resistance, despite their low weight. They will save about 45g per wheel versus Race spokes. Compared to the similar weight (but not aero) Laser models, they are WAY easier to build with since the bladed shape helps fight spoke wind-up. The upcharge for CX-Ray at BTLOS is actually pretty reasonable (~$1.25/spoke) compared to the $3+ per spoke retail price for CX-Ray many places in U.S.
> 
> ...


At 1.25/spoke, that's very reasonable and I'd probably go that route for the weight savings.

Doesn't Ibis have a replacement program (for free) on their rims? Maybe that's just carbon. Either way, it's worth checking.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

wildh said:


> At 1.25/spoke, that's very reasonable and I'd probably go that route for the weight savings.
> 
> Doesn't Ibis have a replacement program (for free) on their rims? Maybe that's just carbon. Either way, it's worth checking.


I will likely go with the CX ray-thanks fella's.
You are correct, I reached out to IBIS a couple days ago and they are sending me a new rim free or charge with the exception of shipping cost of course-very happy with this!


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## Autonomous G (Oct 11, 2008)

What’s the current thought on Toray T700 & T800 carbon fiber? I’ve read the various “description” on the sellers websites, but was hoping to get a real-world answer. 
Allegedly a mix of the two is optimal, accomplishing strength with compliance (so they say). Is a wheel using only T700 that bad?
Any input or am I losing sleep over nothing?

Also, it seems the shipper Nextie is using (EMS) isn’t servicing U.S. at the moment. I’ve been quoted $200 :eekster: shipping via FedEx for my wheels. 
How has the freight price & shipping time been for any of you who’ve purchased wheels from ANY of the China suppliers lately?

Thanks!


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

EIE quoted $58 originally to ship my wheels in January, and shipped them via EMS just as the COVID crisis was unfolding. 

The wheels made it to the EMS distribution center in March, but did not move for 3 weeks. Luckily EIE was able to recover them. 

EMS had frozen all international service due to COVID-19, and I was lucky that the wheels were not lost. The best way to get my wheels was via FedEx, which cost $150. EIE covered 40% of the difference, because I placed the order based on the pre COVID quote, so I ended up paying around $120. I thought that was fair of them. 

Once the wheels left the FedEx facility in China, they were on my doorstep in 5 days. 



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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Last I heard, my wife’s new gravel/road rims had shipped on 4/22. Been a while...


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Had some rims shipped via Cainiao which Carbonfan said was the only way they could get them on the way. It's been 48 days since they've been in the airline's possession. But I'm not in a hurry.


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## Autonomous G (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks isle blue.
Glad to know it’s not just me (and not just Nextie). I suspected there might be issues, but wanted to check with y’all.
Alice at Nextie did offer me a $60 off my wheelset, so that seems kinda inline with your experience.


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

For what it's worth, I emailed BTLOS about the whole shipping situation to the US since I'm interested in buying a full wheelset from them. Amy from BTLOS stated EMS is out of the question and they'll provide a free upgrade to FedEx.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

scoobydrew said:


> For what it's worth, I emailed BTLOS about the whole shipping situation to the US since I'm interested in buying a full wheelset from them. Amy from BTLOS stated EMS is out of the question and they'll provide a free upgrade to FedEx.


Thanks for the heads up. I'm looking to order a set for a new singlespeed I'm building. The frame is coming from China and they stated the same thing about EMS. As of right now, shipping will cost $230 for a Ti frame from China to the US using DHL.


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## choneofakind (Sep 15, 2019)

Autonomous G said:


> Any input or am I losing sleep over nothing?


You're losing sleep over nothing. (coming from an engineer who likes to overthink and loose sleep from every decision regarding his cars and pedal bikes)

From my experience with Nextie, their hoops work. My wheels have held up to my lack of concern for their survival on two bikes now. I'm not even sure which flavor of carbon they're made from.

I have a third set on the way for my gravel bike, I assume those will deliver the same experience.


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## Autonomous G (Oct 11, 2008)

choneofakind said:


> (coming from an engineer who likes to overthink and loose sleep from every decision regarding his cars and pedal bikes)


Yep, that's me right there. I even made a spreadsheet for all the possible wheelsets I was considering. SMH:madman:

Anyway, thanks for the input. My budget is exactly $1k, and not a dollar more (had to sell some old bikes to justifiy the purchase). LB certainy does a good job of promoting their product with all their videos expaling damn near everything. Plus their North American warehouse means I (theoretically) wont have overseas shipping issues. Mulling over their "premium" Recon Pro vs standard Recon and if it's worth the extra $.
Strong, Light, Cheap: Pick...well y'all know the rest.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

scoobydrew said:


> For what it's worth, I emailed BTLOS about the whole shipping situation to the US since I'm interested in buying a full wheelset from them. Amy from BTLOS stated EMS is out of the question and they'll provide a free upgrade to FedEx.


That's a heck of a deal.


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

Just ordered the following wheelset build from BTLOS. Will update as I get build and shipping updates.

This will be going on my Yeti SB100, so a mix of XC/trail. I wanted something ~1300-1400g, 29-30mm inner width (looking to try out the new Maxxis WT XC tires), and for less than ~$900. Spent quite a bit of time going back and forth between EIE and BTLOS since their builds came out pretty similar in price and specs. Settled with BTLOS, but was flip flopping between the i30 in "Extralight" spec (360g) and i29 Asym in "Premium" spec (390g). Even though I don't weigh much and I take it easy on wheels, I wanted something a touch more durable so I went with the i29A.

WM-i29A
- Rim Size: 29er
- Series: Premium
- Version: AM
- Finish: Matte
- Weave: UD
- Hub Type: DT SWISS 350
- Spoke Count: 28H/28H
- Ratchet: Upgrade 54T
- Hub Color: Black
- Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
- Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
- Freehub: SRAM XD
- Brake Interface: Center Lock ( Disc )
- Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
- Spoke System: Straight pull
- Nipple: Aluminium Black
- Decal colors: None


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

I recently picked up some wheelbuilding tools, a spoke cutter, tensioner, etc and bought a few boxes of spokes and some highly discounted high end 2019 hubs. 

Now I am just looking for the lowest cost 30i AM style carbon rim. Preferably somewhere that might have some stock over here in the US. I bought a wheelset from EIE about 12 months ago and love it, but for this project I just want to find a few rims to build up for a second and third bike. I seem to recall one of the outfits had a rep over here who had some of the merchandise in stock over here in the US....


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

backinmysaddle said:


> I recently picked up some wheelbuilding tools, a spoke cutter, tensioner, etc and bought a few boxes of spokes and some highly discounted high end 2019 hubs.
> 
> Now I am just looking for the lowest cost 30i AM style carbon rim. Preferably somewhere that might have some stock over here in the US. I bought a wheelset from EIE about 12 months ago and love it, but for this project I just want to find a few rims to build up for a second and third bike. I seem to recall one of the outfits had a rep over here who had some of the merchandise in stock over here in the US....


What spoke cutter did you get? And what hubs?

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

I got the $179 threader on Amazon. Once set up in a vice and once you practice on a few spokes it works really well. I build a wheel, including cutting/threading the 28 spokes in a few hours. The tensioner is also key, I had tried to build without one of those and rely on pitch. It's super easy with one.

Hubs, XTR. I mostly use DT 240s but these were so cheap I could not pass them up.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

backinmysaddle said:


> I got the $179 threader on Amazon. Once set up in a vice and once you practice on a few spokes it works really well. I build a wheel, including cutting/threading the 28 spokes in a few hours. The tensioner is also key, I had tried to build without one of those and rely on pitch. It's super easy with one.
> 
> Hubs, XTR. I mostly use DT 240s but these were so cheap I could not pass them up.


Huh, I didn't know of that option. Does it cut or roll the threads?

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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

scoobydrew said:


> Just ordered the following wheelset build from BTLOS. Will update as I get build and shipping updates.
> 
> This will be going on my Yeti SB100, so a mix of XC/trail. I wanted something ~1300-1400g, 29-30mm inner width (looking to try out the new Maxxis WT XC tires), and for less than ~$900. Spent quite a bit of time going back and forth between EIE and BTLOS since their builds came out pretty similar in price and specs. Settled with BTLOS, but was flip flopping between the i30 in "Extralight" spec (360g) and i29 Asym in "Premium" spec (390g). Even though I don't weigh much and I take it easy on wheels, I wanted something a touch more durable so I went with the i29A.
> 
> ...


I ordered this same exact wheel set part for part about 3 weeks ago. They have not shipped yet but I will let you know what I think of them as soon as I get them. I'm going to be running them on a new Ripley V4 that I wanted to get a lighter weight wheel set on. I also went back and forth between EIE and BTLOS. Then was thinking about the extralight but ended up with I29 premiums. I'm coming off of 5 years on light bicycle rims with Dt 240's. They were absolutely bomber and I beat the crap out of them. I'm hoping the BTLOS hold up as well.


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

thenry said:


> I ordered this same exact wheel set part for part about 3 weeks ago. They have not shipped yet but I will let you know what I think of them as soon as I get them. I'm going to be running them on a new Ripley V4 that I wanted to get a lighter weight wheel set on. I also went back and forth between EIE and BTLOS. Then was thinking about the extralight but ended up with I29 premiums. I'm coming off of 5 years on light bicycle rims with Dt 240's. They were absolutely bomber and I beat the crap out of them. I'm hoping the BTLOS hold up as well.


Definitely let me know when you get them! The WM-i29a's seem like a popular choice.

EIE seems to have a pretty good reputation. I went with BTLOS based on positive feedback from a very experienced wheel builder who's built up wheels with components from more high end and mainstream brands. He claims the rims look and feel solid and build up very easily.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

After 2 sets of Nextie rims and multiple rims and frames from XMCarbonspeed, I've decided to give Elite Carbon a try. Their actual AliExpress store name is Elite Carbon wheels factory store. I confirmed the order of two sets of rims on the 19th of June and I should see them by the end of July. They have some pretty good sale prices right now with the AliExpress 6.18 sale. Hopefully everything goes as advertised.

Rim 1 (mine):
29er asymmetric XC rim
33mm outer
27mm inner
29mm depth
350g advertised weight
28 hole
12k twill weave
Matte finish

Rim 2 (for a friend):
27.5 symmetrical AM rim
40mm outer 
35mm inner
30mm depth
450g advertised weight
28 hole
Ud weave
Matte finish

https://a.aliexpress.com/_dWS7ZiY


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

Really hoping BTLOS or EIE will do a sale for fathers day or july 4th!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Zachua said:


> Really hoping BTLOS or EIE will do a sale for fathers day or july 4th!


Indeed, would be nice.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

After 59 days of transit time, my Aliexpress shipped rims have arrived in the USA. Not at my door, just on the continent...somewhere.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TylerVernon said:


> After 59 days of transit time, my Aliexpress shipped rims have arrived in the USA. Not at my door, just on the continent...somewhere.


What was the date they "shipped"? Mine shipped on April 22nd. Trying to get an idea of what kind of timeline I might be looking at here.

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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Accepted by carrier 4-21-20


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

scoobydrew said:


> Definitely let me know when you get them! The WM-i29a's seem like a popular choice.
> 
> EIE seems to have a pretty good reputation. I went with BTLOS based on positive feedback from a very experienced wheel builder who's built up wheels with components from more high end and mainstream brands. He claims the rims look and feel solid and build up very easily.


Well that certainly is very good to hear. I appreciate the information. I picked them because the they had the specs I was looking for at a competitive weight for the right price.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

thenry said:


> I ordered this same exact wheel set part for part about 3 weeks ago. They have not shipped yet but I will let you know what I think of them as soon as I get them. I'm going to be running them on a new Ripley V4 that I wanted to get a lighter weight wheel set on. I also went back and forth between EIE and BTLOS. Then was thinking about the extralight but ended up with I29 premiums. I'm coming off of 5 years on light bicycle rims with Dt 240's. They were absolutely bomber and I beat the crap out of them. I'm hoping the BTLOS hold up as well.


I am looking at almost the same build but are you at all concerned about the 28 spoke count and the aluminum nipples for durability? I also have a V4 Ripley and i would like the new set under 1500g so there is at least a sizeable weight savings from the stock. 
I ride mainly XC/Trail style. With same build with 32 spoke/brass nipples and 6 bolt hubs the built is ~1630g or something like that. I might save more to get the 240's to save more weight.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

darrylruddock said:


> I am looking at almost the same build but are you at all concerned about the 28 spoke count and the aluminum nipples for durability? I also have a V4 Ripley and i would like the new set under 1500g so there is at least a sizeable weight savings from the stock.
> I ride mainly XC/Trail style. With same build with 32 spoke/brass nipples and 6 bolt hubs the built is ~1630g or something like that. I might save more to get the 240's to save more weight.


I know the question isn't directed at me but let me chime in. A 32 spoke / brass nipple build is always the safe bet as they will be stronger. That being said, if you're not a clyde and don't ride like a hack hitting every sharp rock in sight, you should be fine. If you're stuck on a 32 hole build, go with DT 350 hubs for centerlock rotors. The main difference between the 240s and the 350 is the amount of machining that takes place. Compare the two hubs with 6 bolt rotors and you'll see the difference in material. Then compare the centerlock ones. Most of that material is gone and the weight difference is negligible.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

BXCc said:


> I know the question isn't directed at me but let me chime in. A 32 spoke / brass nipple build is always the safe bet as they will be stronger. That being said, if you're not a clyde and don't ride like a hack hitting every sharp rock in sight, you should be fine. If you're stuck on a 32 hole build, go with DT 350 hubs for centerlock rotors. The main difference between the 240s and the 350 is the amount of machining that takes place. Compare the two hubs with 6 bolt rotors and you'll see the difference in material. Then compare the centerlock ones. Most of that material is gone and the weight difference is negligible.


Thanks for the input, the only drawback for me is i will need to get new rotors if I go with the center lock. That being said can anyone recommend good lighter weight rotors that go with the shimano SLX on my Ripley V4?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

I’m not sure what the SLX rotors weigh in at but I know the XT center lock is a bit lighter than the XT 6 bolt. Not by much though. But if you’re counting grams, it all adds up. The lock rings are lighter than the bolts as well.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

darrylruddock said:


> I am looking at almost the same build but are you at all concerned about the 28 spoke count and the aluminum nipples for durability? I also have a V4 Ripley and i would like the new set under 1500g so there is at least a sizeable weight savings from the stock.
> I ride mainly XC/Trail style. With same build with 32 spoke/brass nipples and 6 bolt hubs the built is ~1630g or something like that. I might save more to get the 240's to save more weight.


To be honest I have never had 28 holes so I'm slightly concerned but not enough to stop me from pulling the trigger. I only weigh 155 lbs but I ride fairly aggressively. I like to think that I ride fairly smoothly but I absolutely smash into things from time to time. My current wheels have DT 240's. I love the hubs but decided I didn't want to pay for them again. I know quite a few people running 28 holes that have no issues. Hopefully I have the same experience.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

thenry said:


> To be honest I have never had 28 holes so I'm slightly concerned but not enough to stop me from pulling the trigger. I only weigh 155 lbs but I ride fairly aggressively. I like to think that I ride fairly smoothly but I absolutely smash into things from time to time. My current wheels have DT 240's. I love the hubs but decided I didn't want to pay for them again. I know quite a few people running 28 holes that have no issues. Hopefully I have the same experience.


Meant to mention this previously but I am currently running aluminum nipples for the past 5 years on Sapim CX-ray spokes and have had zero issues with either.

Also another note Amy with BTLOS has been exceptional to work with. Her communication has been excellent. I now have a tracking number on the wheels and hope to have them sometime next week.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

thenry said:


> Meant to mention this previously but I am currently running aluminum nipples for the past 5 years on Spain CX-ray spikes and have had zero issues with either.
> 
> Also another not Amy has with BTLOS has been exceptional to work with. Her communication has been excellent. I now have a tracking number on the wheels and hope to have them sometime next week.


Good to hear this. I'm still on the fence but will likely go with them. Amy has been responsive. Did you consider going 32 on the rear tire? I think i may do that as a middle ground.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

darrylruddock said:


> Good to hear this. I'm still on the fence but will likely go with them. Amy has been responsive. Did you consider going 32 on the rear tire? I think i may do that as a middle ground.


I think you guys are over thinking this. I'm 185 pounds and running a 28h 2x build with CX-Ray spokes on my trail bike that's had some good abuse with no issues. The straight pull hubs will only use a 3x build essentially making them stronger. If you stick with the 28h front and rear, all of your spokes will be 300mm. Keep it simple. If you're that worried about spoke count, you might want to consider a more durable spoke as well.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

I weigh 170. I ride pretty hard, not the hardest, but harder than most. I have 28 spokes, cx-ray and aluminum nips on almost all of my wheels. Never had an issue. My Roval actually has 24 spokes up front and super skinny spokes and it has been going three years strong taking the abuse of a coil bike hitting everything moab has to offer frequently.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

yourrealdad said:


> I weigh 170. I ride pretty hard, not the hardest, but harder than most. I have 28 spokes, cx-ray and aluminum nips on almost all of my wheels. Never had an issue. My Roval actually has 24 spokes up front and super skinny spokes and it has been going three years strong taking the abuse of a coil bike hitting everything moab has to offer frequently.


Thanks for the input! I'm 175 so that's great to know. I have been typically easy on wheels until this year when I have already damaged 2 rims. The good news is it was the same sketchy gap i was trying to clear each time and I'm done with it now...


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

darrylruddock said:


> Good to hear this. I'm still on the fence but will likely go with them. Amy has been responsive. Did you consider going 32 on the rear tire? I think i may do that as a middle ground.


Nope I went all in on 28h front and back. I know people that out weigh me by quite a bit that are fine on 28h, so I just went for it.



BXCc said:


> I think you guys are over thinking this. I'm 185 pounds and running a 28h 2x build with CX-Ray spokes on my trail bike that's had some good abuse with no issues. The straight pull hubs will only use a 3x build essentially making them stronger. If you stick with the 28h front and rear, all of your spokes will be 300mm. Keep it simple. If you're that worried about spoke count, you might want to consider a more durable spoke as well.


This is an extremely comforting bit of advise. My current set of wheels are the first set of carbon wheels I have owned. At first they made me a bit nervous. After about 3 rides I realized I had no need to be nervous. Now I don't even think about them. I have spent all of about 5 minutes with a spoke wrench over 5 years. In the past I spent a lot of time truing up aluminum wheels often.



yourrealdad said:


> I weigh 170. I ride pretty hard, not the hardest, but harder than most. I have 28 spokes, cx-ray and aluminum nips on almost all of my wheels. Never had an issue. My Roval actually has 24 spokes up front and super skinny spokes and it has been going three years strong taking the abuse of a coil bike hitting everything moab has to offer frequently.


Thanks for the input! If a 24 spoke can deal with the abuse, 28 spoke should be great. I have had the feeling that 32 spoke was a bit of overkill for my weight.


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## HT-XC (Apr 20, 2020)

I'm 185 pounds and recently got a new wheelset built up with Nexte Ultralight 28mm id rims with carbon ti hubs that came in at around 1300g for my XC bike. The wheelbuilder suggested we'd go 28/32 for this build. I Could have saved another 50 or so grams but figured what the hell. I rather have a strong and long lasting wheel than have to service it every other ride. I can't tell if 24/28 would have been sufficient but if you don't know anything about wheels (like me) then I can recommend going with the slightly heavier but burlier version.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Its been awhile since I bought rims. I have some light bicycle dt240S 1315gm 29ers XC wheels that are at least 6 years old and still as true today as they were when I got them. Been hammering on some dt240s 1530gm 35mm internal ACE bike(yishun?) AM wheels on my remedy for a few seasons. Still true and no issues. Im just under 200lbs and cant complain. I bought the ACE bike wheels because LB seemed a little to proud of their stuff with their pricing. I noticed the ACE bike site is down so I emailed and they said they are working on it and check out their yishun site. The reason I bring all this up is I need a set of DH wheels. I checked out the BTLOS site and I like their ASM 29er wheel and the price $710 with dt350 hubs 20x110, 12x157 seems right. Who really makes their wheels? I was under the impression that yishun is an actual manufacture. May just have them whip up a set. Any other brands I should checkout? I didnt like the profile of farsports. The Nextie and carbonfan wheels seem overpriced.


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Its been awhile since I bought rims. I have some light bicycle dt240S 1315gm 29ers XC wheels that are at least 6 years old and still as true today as they were when I got them. Been hammering on some dt240s 1530gm 35mm internal ACE bike(yishun?) AM wheels on my remedy for a few seasons. Still true and no issues. Im just under 200lbs and cant complain. I bought the ACE bike wheels because LB seemed a little to proud of their stuff with their pricing. I noticed the ACE bike site is down so I emailed and they said they are working on it and check out their yoshun site. The reason I bring all this up is I need a set of DH wheels. I checked out the BTLOS site and I like their ASM 29er wheel and the price $710 with dt350 hubs 20x110, 12x157 seems right. Who really makes their wheels? I was under the impression that yishun is an actual manufacture. May just have them whip up a set. Any other brands I should checkout? I didnt like the profile of farsports. The Nextie and carbonfan wheels seem overpriced.


I just checked the yishun site you mentioned and i started noticing some familiar looking parts. Recently i've been compiling a mental build for an all carbon rigid xc build using the LightCarbon LCM908 frame. I'll be damned if Yishun doens't also list the M908 frame which is the same thing. Looking at some of the wheels, they have the same array of DTswiss based wheels, forks, components, same pn's, etc. So im not sure who is the parent company, but those two sites definitely have the same items. However, i dont see any variation with a superboost hub.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I think there's one place all these rims are made, maybe subbed out to. It's why Carbonfan has a gazillion rim profiles and so many companies share the same rim shape. Same mold, made by the same mysterious shadow people.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Its been awhile since I bought rims. I have some light bicycle dt240S 1315gm 29ers XC wheels that are at least 6 years old and still as true today as they were when I got them. Been hammering on some dt240s 1530gm 35mm internal ACE bike(yishun?) AM wheels on my remedy for a few seasons. Still true and no issues. Im just under 200lbs and cant complain. I bought the ACE bike wheels because LB seemed a little to proud of their stuff with their pricing. I noticed the ACE bike site is down so I emailed and they said they are working on it and check out their yoshun site. The reason I bring all this up is I need a set of DH wheels. I checked out the BTLOS site and I like their ASM 29er wheel and the price $710 with dt350 hubs 20x110, 12x157 seems right. Who really makes their wheels? I was under the impression that yishun is an actual manufacture. May just have them whip up a set. Any other brands I should checkout? I didnt like the profile of farsports. The Nextie and carbonfan wheels seem overpriced.


Not sure where they are made but I'm yet to see a negative review on BTLOS on this forum. I will be going with them when i finally pull the trigger.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

JonF1 said:


> I just checked the yishun site you mentioned and i started noticing some familiar looking parts. Recently i've been compiling a mental build for an all carbon rigid xc build using the LightCarbon LCM908 frame. I'll be damned if Yishun doens't also list the M908 frame which is the same thing. Looking at some of the wheels, they have the same array of DTswiss based wheels, forks, components, same pn's, etc. So im not sure who is the parent company, but those two sites definitely have the same items. However, i dont see any variation with a superboost hub.


The real wuestion is yishun another reseller or the manufacture


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> The real wuestion is yishun another reseller or the manufacture


Not sure of the validity, but the road bike world has been buing chinese carbon frames for a good while longer than the mtb world and may have a good handle on the business structure over there. The below post describes a relationship of Yishun and LightCarbon with one doing the frames and the other wheels and combined they offer each others product to cover the major items.

https://forums.roadbikereview.com/b...rect-version-7-0-a-346068-32.html#post5102089


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Does anyone know who builds the BTLOS wheels? It may not matter as I asked them to quote me pricing on a build by email and have not heard back so it may be a mute point.


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

thenry said:


> Meant to mention this previously but I am currently running aluminum nipples for the past 5 years on Sapim CX-ray spokes and have had zero issues with either.
> 
> Also another note Amy with BTLOS has been exceptional to work with. Her communication has been excellent. I now have a tracking number on the wheels and hope to have them sometime next week.


Great to hear and I'm anxious to get your feedback on them. It sounds like the build time is about 3-4 weeks from order placement? (I'm the guy who ordered the same wheel build as you, just changed my username).


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Is LB the only Chinese rim manufacturer that builds sets in the US, has warehouse/inventory? 

Wish the NA location offered more options but I get it.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

I remember seeing in another thread that BTLOS was a manufacturer and sent a user some pics from the factory floor. If someone is in communication with them they could ask the same. If the pics are the same ones as the other thread then I’d question whether they are. Regardless I’m super happy with my year old set. I’ll be getting another set from them when I order my Occam.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Most of these brands are just individuals that live near and have access to the factories that also produce oem stuff.
It's all essentially the same with a few proprietary designs thrown in. 
I have my 3rd order in with Arthur at Carbon Fans and I can request specifics and he goes and has it made to my desires even if it's not on his website. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

localn8ve said:


> Great to hear and I'm anxious to get your feedback on them. It sounds like the build time is about 3-4 weeks from order placement? (I'm the guy who ordered the same wheel build as you, just changed my username).


It will be about 3 1/2 weeks for me. Apparently they have had a difficult time getting them shipped due to COVID. Totally get it and I wasn't expecting them quickly. If I get them sometime next week that would be great.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

thenry said:


> Meant to mention this previously but I am currently running aluminum nipples for the past 5 years on Sapim CX-ray spokes and have had zero issues with either.


When saying this, have you pulled the rim tape and actually looked at the condition of the nipples?


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Got some rims in via the Aliexpress shipping; took 66 days from middle of April.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> When saying this, have you pulled the rim tape and actually looked at the condition of the nipples?


I have pulled the rim tape but it was about 6 months ago. When the wheels first showed up from light bicycle they had greased/or maybe put some kind of anti seize around each nipple. After 5 years they still look good. I know there can be a corrosive interaction between carbon and aluminum, but my wheels don't seem to have any signs of it. My understanding is that improved anodizing on the aluminum nips can help make this corrosion a non issue. I'm also in Colorado and it is usually very dusty and dry. I don't ride the trails wet out here as they are heavily "clay" based and it really does a number on them. Not sure but maybe that's part of it?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

thenry said:


> I have pulled the rim tape but it was about 6 months ago. When the wheels first showed up from light bicycle they had greased/or maybe put some kind of anti seize around each nipple. After 5 years they still look good. I know there can be a corrosive interaction between carbon and aluminum, but my wheels don't seem to have any signs of it. My understanding is that improved anodizing on the aluminum nips can help make this corrosion a non issue. I'm also in Colorado and it is usually very dusty and dry. I don't ride the trails wet out here as they are heavily "clay" based and it really does a number on them. Not sure but maybe that's part of it?


I would not call it a non-issue. A dry climate and keeping the bike dry after a ride are helpful in my experience. It's not a bad idea to figure on re-nippling the aluminum nipples every couple years, but yes, dry climates, immediately drying the bike, avoiding salt, etc., these can definitely help and increase the longevity, along with the measures taken when building the wheels. The other big one is good taping jobs and not just adding sealant and sloshing it around when the tire won't seal. That usually means that sealant is getting into the double-wall portion of the rim and yes, you can often use the sealant to "seal" this, but water and the stuff in it (especially ammonia) will greatly speed up the corrosion process. Someone on FB in the fat-bike group posted a WTB/Stans valve that had literally corroded in half. So if you have problems, take the appropriate measures, don't try to "add more sealant" till it goes away.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

Jayem said:


> I would not call it a non-issue. A dry climate and keeping the bike dry after a ride are helpful in my experience. It's not a bad idea to figure on re-nippling the aluminum nipples every couple years, but yes, dry climates, immediately drying the bike, avoiding salt, etc., these can definitely help and increase the longevity, along with the measures taken when building the wheels. The other big one is good taping jobs and not just adding sealant and sloshing it around when the tire won't seal. That usually means that sealant is getting into the double-wall portion of the rim and yes, you can often use the sealant to "seal" this, but water and the stuff in it (especially ammonia) will greatly speed up the corrosion process. Someone on FB in the fat-bike group posted a WTB/Stans valve that had literally corroded in half. So if you have problems, take the appropriate measures, don't try to "add more sealant" till it goes away.


Great info! I'm not worried about it and have a new set of wheels on the way with aluminum nips and CX-ray spokes. Other than a very thorough tape job I haven't done anything special to take care of the wheels I have. They sit with a nice layer of dust on them most of the time. I'm going to be selling my current bike shortly. I'll re-tape a wheel before I list it. Don't want to sell someone a problem.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

thenry said:


> Great info! I'm not worried about it and have a new set of wheels on the way with aluminum nips and CX-ray spokes. Other than a very thorough tape job I haven't done anything special to take care of the wheels I have. They sit with a nice layer of dust on them most of the time. I'm going to be selling my current bike shortly. I'll re-tape a wheel before I list it. Don't want to sell someone a problem.


Ok so I pulled my rear tire and removed the tape. No signs of any corrosion at any interface that I can see. It's hard to tell from the pic but the spoke threads are actually going beyond the end of the nipple. If I found trouble here I would pull the front tape as well. At this point I feel better about selling them and will call it good. I certainly appreciate the input on the subject. I'm thinking about applying a dollop of grease with a q tip to the back of each nipple/spoke thread on the new wheels before I tape them up. Thanks to all for the good discussion on this topic.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

thenry said:


> Ok so I pulled my rear tire and removed the tape. No signs of any corrosion at any interface that I can see. It's hard to tell from the pic but the spoke threads are actually going beyond the end of the nipple. If I found trouble here I would pull the front tape as well. At this point I feel better about selling them and will call it good. I certainly appreciate the input on the subject. I'm thinking about applying a dollop of grease with a q tip to the back of each nipple/spoke thread on the new wheels before I tape them up. Thanks to all for the good discussion on this topic.


For further reference these wheels have not led an easy life.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> Most of these brands are just individuals that live near and have access to the factories that also produce oem stuff.
> It's all essentially the same with a few proprietary designs thrown in.
> I have my 3rd order in with Arthur at Carbon Fans and I can request specifics and he goes and has it made to my desires even if it's not on his website.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Arthur is super helpful and I like Carbon fan rims that I have built up. Made a set of 27.5 under 1100g for under $1000 and a pair of 29er under 1200g for under $1000


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Nice. 
That's light!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

localn8ve said:


> Definitely let me know when you get them! The WM-i29a's seem like a popular choice.
> 
> EIE seems to have a pretty good reputation. I went with BTLOS based on positive feedback from a very experienced wheel builder who's built up wheels with components from more high end and mainstream brands. He claims the rims look and feel solid and build up very easily.


So I got my first ride on the new wheels and I was extremely pleased. Build quality seems very good. Wheels are true and tensioned well. I took them through some significant chunk on their first ride out. Rear flat that the sealant couldn't take care of. Got home and the rear wheel is still perfectly true. Doesn't hurt that it shaved the better part of a pound of rotating mass off my bike. I felt like I borrowed someone else's more fit legs and lungs for the night. I'm impressed so far. We will see how they hold up!


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

thenry said:


> So I got my first ride on the new wheels and I was extremely pleased. Build quality seems very good. Wheels are true and tensioned well. I took them through some significant chunk on their first ride out. Rear flat that the sealant couldn't take care of. Got home and the rear wheel is still perfectly true. Doesn't hurt that it shaved the better part of a pound of rotating mass off my bike. I felt like I borrowed someone else's more fit legs and lungs for the night. I'm impressed so far. We will see how they hold up!


Thanks for the update with your initial impressions! Were you able to weigh them at all?

I haven't heard anything from BTLOS in the past 3 weeks or so, but I'll check in with them to see where they're at.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

localn8ve said:


> Thanks for the update with your initial impressions! Were you able to weigh them at all?
> 
> I haven't heard anything from BTLOS in the past 3 weeks or so, but I'll check in with them to see where they're at.


No I didn't weigh them. Each wheel came with a quality control tag that included the weight. The combined total was 1485 grams. A bit heavier than the 1466 they were listed at but within the stated tolerances of plus or minus 25 grams per wheel set.


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

Heads up - Nextie is offering discounts for their 7 year anniversary. https://www.nextie.com/7-year-anniversary

$40 off for order amount over $300
$60 off for order amount over $500
$100 off for order amount over $800
$120 off for order amount over $1000

Also comes with some free swag, tubeless valves, and tape.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

thenry said:


> No I didn't weigh them. Each wheel came with a quality control tag that included the weight. The combined total was 1485 grams. A bit heavier than the 1466 they were listed at but within the stated tolerances of plus or minus 25 grams per wheel set.


After about a dozen more rides I am very impressed with this wheel set. for an update to anyone reading this they are as follows

BTLOS ID- 29mm in the premium layup
Dt swiss - straight pull - 350 hubs 28 hole - 54 tooth star ratchet 
Aluminum nipples
sapim cx-ray spokes

First off the wheels shaved about 3/4 of a pound off of my rotating mass which was a game changer. Between wheels and tires a full pound of rotating mass from the bike.

I have taken these down high speed chunk and flatted a tire on them. Went to the bike park and cased some jumps(really impressive riding - read last phrase with loads of sarcasm). They are still perfectly true. I am impressed!!

Based on some of the concerns by others regarding the reaction between aluminum and carbon I put a drip of grease on the inside of the spoke nipple before I taped them up for tubeless, as well as drip from the outside of the nipple as well. I have done the carbon/aluminium before and not had an issue but I believe other people that say they have. I know people that have had aluminum seat posts seize in carbon frames.... and also science says it will happen. Hopefully my good fortune with these wheels will continue.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

thenry said:


> After about a dozen more rides I am very impressed with this wheel set. for an update to anyone reading this they are as follows
> 
> BTLOS ID- 29mm in the premium layup
> Dt swiss - straight pull - 350 hubs 28 hole - 54 tooth star ratchet
> ...


Is this the asymmetric?


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

darrylruddock said:


> Is this the asymmetric?


Yes it is


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

*BTLOS Shipping*

I ordered a set of BTLOS WMi24-A wheels, they quoted me 12 business days to build and 5 to ship via FedEx. They shipped them on the 12th day but then they sat somewhere in Hong Kong for 5 days without moving. They finally say "in transit" on the tracking but I have no idea how long this will take.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

craigstr said:


> I have no idea how long this will take.


few more weeks, as long as customs here doesnt delay it


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

craigstr said:


> I ordered a set of BTLOS WMi24-A wheels, they quoted me 12 business days to build and 5 to ship via FedEx. They shipped them on the 12th day but then they sat somewhere in Hong Kong for 5 days without moving. They finally say "in transit" on the tracking but I have no idea how long this will take.


Ordered a set of BTLOS WMi29-A wheels on 6/16 and got FedEx shipment notification on 7/20, which is about a month later. Similarly, it sat in Hong Kong for a few days, but as of today 7/25, they're at least in the USA (in Memphis TN). I'm over in the west coast, so I'm thinking a few more days until they reach my doorstep.


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

*Same plane*

Mine just got to Memphis too, I'm in Reno so I am hoping to get them sometime this week.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

I just received a set of the lightest of these rims here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32964693635.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.61d64c4dw0El0t

Haven't ridden them yet as I'm not too happy about some of the details, for example the holes in the rim bed are quite bad and the weight was above the given range.

Now, as I thought about the whole thing I stumbled over some asymmetric rims, as far as I know products that weren't available when I ordered my symmetric rims in March.

The ones I liked best so far are these two:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33002490766.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.51982e0e4qd2vv
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909546837.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.51982e0e4qd2vv

One is a little lighter, the other one has all these nice details about the manufacturing process. Elite Wheels / Yuan'an / Xiamen Carbon / XM Carbon on one side, the other one is Carbon Beam / Solo Team.


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## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

I have been using these for the last 18 months for xc racing a trail riding on my Ibis Ripley and have so far held up fine. Have done 600-800km on them. They were on the lighter side by memory, maybe 320g. I weight 75ish kg when riding.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32990978861.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dRP4eOK


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

Hi Folks, I read the last 50 posts or so but forgive me, I have not read all 9,141 posts in this thread but it looks like the right place for my entry level questions.

I just purchased a carbon 2019 Transition Smuggler 29er with the stock Stan's wheelset and would like to upgrade to carbon. It has the SRAM Eagle 12 drivetrain.

I am probably 165 with gear on and ride trail. I do get into some fast roots, chunk and small jumps but nothing too aggressive. I do right some moderate downhill trails too but I am fairly chill when I do and have been riding these trails on my other trail bikes for years. For more reference on how I ride, I've only had one flat in my many years of riding and never broken a spoke or bent a wheel

I am just now learning about all the carbon wheel options, I had only previously seen the DIYcarbonbikes and looked at their ultralight (I think 34mm OD) trail rim which is stated around 350g as I recall, for $450 shipped/set.

Into the questions:

**Rim size*: My stans look like about 35mm OD, and my DT swiss on my (27.5 Transition scout) are 30mm OD. Based on this and my riding style I've been looking at trail wheels with 30-35mm outside diameter. Does this seem right?

*Rim depth:* This is all new to me, I have the sense that I want a mid to shallow rim depth. Any insight on this?

**Rim to tire interface*: I've been looking at hookless rims, this appears to be the most modern approach with carbon wheels. Is that wise and are their any special considerations here?

**Hubs*: I am thinking about re-using the stan's 32 spoke hubs (I have a set of Hope PRO4 in my 27.5 that I could strip out too) Both are symmetrical. Can either of these hubs be used with Asymmetrical rims or do the hubs have to be for asymmetrical? Any reason not to recycle my Stan's hubs? I think the hopes, while sexy, are heavier, they feel the same to me when I ride in terms of performance.

*Symmetrical:* related to the question above, would asymmetrical be a no-brain'r for me?

*I mostly saw EIE and BTLOS talked about here, are these "generally" considered better options than the many ebay sellers, or DIYCarbonbikes?

Thanks in advance for helping point me in the right direction before I make an impulse buy.


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

*Have you received your wheels?*



localn8ve said:


> Ordered a set of BTLOS WMi29-A wheels on 6/16 and got FedEx shipment notification on 7/20, which is about a month later. Similarly, it sat in Hong Kong for a few days, but as of today 7/25, they're at least in the USA (in Memphis TN). I'm over in the west coast, so I'm thinking a few more days until they reach my doorstep.


Mine have been held up in customs...Fedex contacted me and asked me to fill out a form, which I did, but it was denied. I filled out another form per customs but they have not been released yet. They have been sitting there for 5 days now.


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## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

markcm said:


> Hi Folks, I read the last 50 posts or so but forgive me, I have not read all 9,141 posts in this thread but it looks like the right place for my entry level questions.
> 
> **Rim size*: My stans look like about 35mm OD, and my DT swiss on my (27.5 Transition scout) are 30mm OD. Based on this and my riding style I've been looking at trail wheels with 30-35mm outside diameter. Does this seem right?
> 
> ...


Firstly, are you looking to build up your own wheels or get someone to build them for you/buy a wheelset? Do you currently only have one wheelset for the smuggler so would disassemble that to build new ones? If you're using the Hope pro4's from the other bike, does that mean the 27.5 wouldn't have wheels anymore?

I've only built three wheelsets so pretty amateurish in this field compared to what advice others may offer. But i am a similar weight and have a similar bike with my Ibis ripley

Rim width/size; don't refer to it as OD, this means outside diameter rather than width, use IW or OW if you want an abbreviation. 30mm internal width seems to be the sweet spot for trail bikes at the moment but will depend on what type of tyres you want to be using, but in saying that i'd be happy with 25-35mm. I have 25mm internal width rims for my ripley but next set i'd go closer to 30mm.

Rim depth; i can't really offer anything other than don't go for deep rims like you're suggesting. Shallow rims to cost a bit more as they are typically newer designs. Look about half way down this webpage for some info on it
https://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/news/santa-cruz-reserve-wheels/311

Interface; hookless is fine now that tyres are pretty well designed and consistent in quality. I haven't had any problems (but only three wheelsets...)

Hubs; i wouldn't recommend stans hubs because they're not the best quality but if your not breaking hubs then it'll probably be ok. Hopes would be better but if that means disassembling the other wheelset you have to weigh up if you want to loose those wheels or not. Hubs don't influence what kind of rims you need to pair with them (unless you're going to build wheels for rim brakes...), but you will need to know the dimensions of the hub to determine spoke lengths. You'll also need to know the rim ERD which isn't consistently measure by different manufacturers. I have always measured my rims for their ERD rather than relying on manufacture info.

Assymetrical; I don't find this has much affect on the ride itself, but it can make building wheels easier as you might only need one spoke length to build a wheelset and theoretically builds a more tension balanced wheel.

As said above, I've only built three wheelsets, but all three have used aliexpress/ebay rims and havn't had any issues with them. For me, because they're a lot cheaper I can justify building carbon wheels.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

meschenbruch said:


> Firstly, are you looking to build up your own wheels or get someone to build them for you/buy a wheelset? Do you currently only have one wheelset for the smuggler so would disassemble that to build new ones? If you're using the Hope pro4's from the other bike, does that mean the 27.5 wouldn't have wheels anymore?
> 
> I've only built three wheelsets so pretty amateurish in this field compared to what advice others may offer. But i am a similar weight and have a similar bike with my Ibis ripley
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input!

I have several friends who are experienced wheel builders and have offered to help.

My HOPE PRO4 are currently built into my 27.5" wheels on my Scout, I would have to take them apart and put back together with the stans hubs. Probably not the best approach because they are built really well right now.

This will be my only wheel set for my smuggler. Right now I'm thinking a out just replacing the stans rims and stock spokes with some asymmetrical carbon rims on the stans hubs. We haven't had any issues with the other stans we have and the investment seems low enough to risk it.

I ride a 2.25" rear tire and a 2.5" front. I was thinking in the 30-35mm OW measurement. It sounds like your suggestion is more toward the 35mm OW; I'll look closer at that.

I haven't been on MTBR for awhile, geee was I ever confused with the "hybrid thread" mode, it took me 15 minutes to figure out why the heck I couldn't find these replies to this thread.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

ID-inner diameter. This is the correct term you want to be using. IW/OW are not used when describing wheels. You want to be looking at ID of wheels as the OD (outside diameter) means little.

30mm ID is good for most tires. 2.3-2.6

Asymmetrical lets you build a more even tensioned wheel so theoretically stronger, less of an issue the smaller your wheels.

You want hookless. Rims with bead hooks are old tech and are going to be heavier and more prone to issues.

Reusing hubs. Not usually an issue but remember that the hub has had spokes pressing into its flangers a certain way. You can add additional stress by relacing it in a different pattern and can lead to broken flanges. Also if you don’t relace it in the exact same pattern then you have knick marks on the hub from how it was previously done. Not a big deal but not aesthetically pleasing


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Also, why do you want to move to carbon? Do you need a stiffer wheel? Weight savings?

What model rim is the stans?

Do you realize that there is a good chance you will have to replace the spokes as well, and I would do the nipples too just for good measure.

Personally I would either ride the Stan’s til it breaks or sell the wheelset and start from scratch with a quality hub which Stan’s is not.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm afraid i disagree on the width vs diameter statement you used Realdad
Diameter is the term used to describe the dimension of a circle so that would describe the dimensions such as BSD- in which interestingly enough the d is diameter. Width describes width which is the the appropriate term for what Markcm is describing.

I checked a number of pre-eminent wheel and rim manufacturers to double check and found they all used the above nomenclature


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

I will stand corrected.

On pretty much any site they will use Inner Width and Outer Width. I am aware of that. 

Pretty much anytime someone is talking about the rim though people are using ID. Maybe it has meant Inner Dimension (which is even more vague and incorrect).

Either way the persona will know what you are talking about. ID is just more commonly used of the forums even if it is incorrect.

Again the more important thing is to look at the inner width and not really care about outer width.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

agreed,
especially since the 2 numbers differ by more than factor of 10 usually 

I do do agree that either riding or selling the existing wheel set is the best course vs re-using part


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

yourrealdad said:


> Also, why do you want to move to carbon? Do you need a stiffer wheel? Weight savings?
> 
> What model rim is the stans?
> 
> ...


I have Stans NoTubes wheel sets now with the Stans Neo hubs; this is what came stock on Transition bikes in 2019.

I am interested in switching to carbon after riding my friends Transition smuggler which had carbon. The lower weight made for a noticeably lower rolling mass, the bike was more responsive and was easier to pedal. I would like to improve my bike in the same way he did.

And yes, weight savings is appealing. My bike (which is a carbon bike) weighs about 31 right now.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

Great input everyone, thanks again for this. And thanks for clarifying the dimensions, I was pretty confused on that first comment which mixed up width and diameter.

One thing that these comments have me considering now are whether to do a full fresh build rather than re-purpose my hubs. My thought on this is that my front stans rim has a pretty good bend in it from the previous owner; it still functions fine but... 

It seems as though re-purposing my hubs will get me a rebuilt set of wheels with the carbon aspects I'm hoping for in the rim, I am happy enough with the stans hubs and the price for this route looks to be under $400. I haven't shopped for hubs yet but I am under the impression a new set of hubs that are "better than the stans" is going to cost a few hundred dollars alone.

If I were to go for a full build, are there any popular hubs for boost axles which fall in the reasonably light, relatively durable, and cost effective range? I'm not interested in bling.


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

craigstr said:


> Mine have been held up in customs...Fedex contacted me and asked me to fill out a form, which I did, but it was denied. I filled out another form per customs but they have not been released yet. They have been sitting there for 5 days now.


Interesting. Was it stuck in Memphis and did the tracking status say "International shipment release - Import" with a "Pending" delivery date?

Mine were stuck in Memphis since Monday 7/27 and to my surprise they're out for delivery this morning. For what it's worth, I'm in the Bay Area CA.

Best of luck to you!


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

localn8ve said:


> Just ordered the following wheelset build from BTLOS. Will update as I get build and shipping updates.
> 
> This will be going on my Yeti SB100, so a mix of XC/trail. I wanted something ~1300-1400g, 29-30mm inner width (looking to try out the new Maxxis WT XC tires), and for less than ~$900. Spent quite a bit of time going back and forth between EIE and BTLOS since their builds came out pretty similar in price and specs. Settled with BTLOS, but was flip flopping between the i30 in "Extralight" spec (360g) and i29 Asym in "Premium" spec (390g). Even though I don't weigh much and I take it easy on wheels, I wanted something a touch more durable so I went with the i29A.
> 
> ...


Just received the build listed above from BTLOS. Took exactly 6 weeks from order placement to my door. Per their site, the listed weight is 1451g but my scale shows about 1485g. Ever so slightly off of their +/- 25g tolerance, but no biggie. Either way I'll be shaving 400g from my existing wheelset!

My new tires and rim tape come in early next week so no ride impressions yet. Visually the rims themselves look and feel fantastic.

@thenry also ordered the same build and shared his thoughts above.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

markcm said:


> Great input everyone, thanks again for this. And thanks for clarifying the dimensions, I was pretty confused on that first comment which mixed up width and diameter.
> 
> One thing that these comments have me considering now are whether to do a full fresh build rather than re-purpose my hubs. My thought on this is that my front stans rim has a pretty good bend in it from the previous owner; it still functions fine but...
> 
> ...


DT 350... If you can live with centerlock or straightpull 6-bolt, those versions are lighter than the classic j-bend 6-bolt 350 hubs.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

markcm said:


> If I were to go for a full build, are there any popular hubs for boost axles which fall in the reasonably light, relatively durable, and cost effective range? I'm not interested in bling.


DT 350 like GT87 mentioned. Stick with the ones for center lock rotors if you want to save weight. I weighed up some 180mm XT 6 bolt and center lock rotors and the rotors are lighter as well. Here's a comparison chart I made a couple years back.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Center lock rotors are heavier though. Maybe not Shimano, but they have no light rotors anyhow and they won’t necessarily put much effort into 6-bolt anyway.



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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Yes, you can find some lighter rotors that are 6-bolt and there are many more options. But when comparing the same model rotor, CL will normally be lighter. RT81 XT center lock rotor is roughly 125 to 130 grams with lock ring. The KCNC Razor is 95 without hardware. So overall, you'll still be a bit lighter with a CL setup. I'm not sure how I would feel about the Razor rotors on a trail rig though. Those things are cool looking but not much material so they may heat up quick. 

Value for the dollar, DT350 center lock rotors are tough to beat.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

BXCc said:


> Yes, you can find some lighter rotors that are 6-bolt and there are many more options. But when comparing the same model rotor, CL will normally be lighter. RT81 XT center lock rotor is roughly 125 to 130 grams with lock ring. The KCNC Razor is 95 without hardware. So overall, you'll still be a bit lighter with a CL setup. I'm not sure how I would feel about the Razor rotors on a trail rig though. Those things are cool looking but not much material so they may heat up quick.
> 
> Value for the dollar, DT350 center lock rotors are tough to beat.


There aren't very many CL rotor options out there.

But brake rotors are NOT a place to skimp IME, unless you are using the bike on very flat ground with no sustained heavy braking. It doesn't take a lot of vertical to get to that point, just steep sustained grades and when you have it, it can overheat the hell out of those weight weenie rotors like Ai2/Airrotor IME. They are great for saving weight when you can, like on my winter fat-bikes, but terrible when you need brakes on a descent. Shimano ice-tech are some of the best around for braking performance, if not the best IMO.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Agreed on Centerlock rotors. I believe in them to such an extent, that I won't even consider 6-bolt hubs. The weight difference between CL and 6-bolt is negligible. The ease of removing an installing CL rotors is a 3 second job at most. They are generally running on a stiffer chassis/spider to begin with. I've always run Shimano, and then Ice-tech since it came out around 10 years ago, but there are other options if you don't want to run Shimano. In my experience though, I don't know why you wouldn't.


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Jayem said:


> There aren't very many CL rotor options out there.
> 
> But brake rotors are NOT a place to skimp IME, unless you are using the bike on very flat ground with no sustained heavy braking. It doesn't take a lot of vertical to get to that point, just steep sustained grades and when you have it, it can overheat the hell out of those weight weenie rotors like Ai2/Airrotor IME. They are great for saving weight when you can, like on my winter fat-bikes, but terrible when you need brakes on a descent. Shimano ice-tech are some of the best around for braking performance, if not the best IMO.


My thoughts exactly. I have some Ai2 rotors on my 29+ winter bike but the rest run IceTech for a reason. Sram has some decent CL rotors as well. Never used them though.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

Thanks, I'm learning a lot from all the insight everyone is sharing and I appreciate it.

I have shimano saint m820 with icetech 6-bolt rotors right now. I am thinking I will sell or trade these Saint brakes for some XTR 9120 and since I have a good set of 6-bolt icetech rotors, potentially stay with that. The DT350 sounds like a very popular option, I ended up putting my HOPE PRO-4 with DT alloy rims on my wife's scout last night so I wont be re-purposing those hubs for my new wheels.


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

*BTLOS WM-i24A*

Just got a pair of BTLOS WM-i24A laced to DT 350's... came in at 1475 grams...Here is the problem (s). They sent me 21mm tape and their tubeless valves. I taped them up (which I have done 100's of times) installed the valves and they inflated easily, problem is they leak around the valve stem. Being an asymmetric rim, the valve hole comes out sort of on the side of the rim and when you snug it up it pulls the valve at an angle and it doesnt seal properly? Any one else had this issue? The other issue is when I first mounted the wheels and rode down my driveway, I heard a couple spoke twangs and now the rear wheel has a little wobble. I can have my local shop true them up but I am going to raise a stink with BTLOS. I shouldnt have to deal with this with a brand new wheelset.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Sealant should seal the leak. If not look for asym valve "washers" or whatever you want to call them. I just rebuilt my buddy's wheel and his stem had it. Goes between the rim and the stem nut.

Did you put the wheel in a truing stand? How do you know the wobble isn't from the tires.

If I bought a pair of cheap Chinese carbon wheels and they showed up out of true I wouldn't raise a stink with the company. I would true them up myself or have the LBS do it and call it a day.

You want perfection then get some made by a professional wheelbuilder


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Wish you had a link to those washers. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> Wish you had a link to those washers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


https://r2-bike.com/DT-SWISS-Valve-Spacer-for-asymmetric-Rims

This is what they look like. Don't know if there is a US site for them or who else makes them.

I have always been fine with just the rubber band under the nut on asym rims.


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

yourrealdad said:


> Sealant should seal the leak. If not look for asym valve "washers" or whatever you want to call them. I just rebuilt my buddy's wheel and his stem had it. Goes between the rim and the stem nut.
> 
> Did you put the wheel in a truing stand? How do you know the wobble isn't from the tires.
> 
> ...


I did put them in a stand, I was going to try and true them myself but there was quite a bit of tension on the spokes involved. I think I'm going to get some different tape and valves, the ones they supplied dont look that great of quality.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

Suns_PSD said:


> Wish you had a link to those washers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


FSA makes the asym spacer. Part no. 752-0117000110

But my asym wheels from BTLOS (i30) didn't have any issues with the valve being at an angle but they are somewhat wider. Also, mine are still true as the day I got them over a year ago and I'm a little rough on my line choices.


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## MikeInPA (Mar 18, 2017)

craigstr said:


> Just got a pair of BTLOS WM-i24A laced to DT 350's... The other issue is when I first mounted the wheels and rode down my driveway, I heard a couple spoke twangs and now the rear wheel has a little wobble. I can have my local shop true them up but I am going to raise a stink with BTLOS. I shouldnt have to deal with this with a brand new wheelset.


Appreciate the report. Only Chinese carbon wheels I've owned are Light Bicycle, 2 sets, and neither has problems like that. In fact, both sets are the best I've owned....period. I have some Bontrager Carbon Line Pro or whatever they call them, and they're pretty amazing, but they need truing after 500 miles compared to three times that on LB wheels and they require *nothing.* Rock gardens, drops, smashing into roots and logs.......Truly the most bulletproof wheels I've owned.

MIPA


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

*Does this seem normal?*

Where the valve seats inside the is at an angle which causes it not to seal.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

craigstr said:


> Where the valve seats inside the is at an angle which causes it not to seal.


I'm honestly not seeing such a degree of misalignment that the valve shouldn't be able to seal.

Have you pressed down on the valves seat inside of the rim while then tightening the nut? Is the valves seat round? Or is it like the DT ones that are sort of shaped like a pirates chest?

Also, don't rely on sealant to solve leakage into your rim cavity.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Does anyone have any experience with these particular rims?

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33002...er_id=0a46d56d3f3d4de89506501f713ed5e2&is_c=N

The combo of price/weight/width is pretty much in free lunch territory, and I'll probably smash them immediately, but part of me wants to try anyway. I'd probably use the 40g tubolight inserts with them.

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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

New rims on the way from BTLOS:

https://btlos.com/image/cache/catalog/banners/btlos-shallow-rims-carbon-rims-900x450.jpg

I was told that the molds are done but they haven't finalized weights or prices yet, and to expect an update mid August.

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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

GT87 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with these particular rims?
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33002...er_id=0a46d56d3f3d4de89506501f713ed5e2&is_c=N
> 
> ...


I'm in contact with them but haven't placed an order yet. The rim looks quite interesting. Others are 1mm wider on the outside, but easily 50g heavier per rim.

Did you find out anything about how the rims are produced, any background?

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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

craigstr said:


> I did put them in a stand, I was going to try and true them myself but there was quite a bit of tension on the spokes involved. I think I'm going to get some different tape and valves, the ones they supplied dont look that great of quality.


IME with the carbon wheels I've built, if care is taken to keep tensions uniform, the rims will stay very straight. If you suspect the tensions are greatly uneven (sounds like it to me), then the best course is to have someone back off all the nipples and start over. When I build wheels I go through at least 3 rounds of pre-stressing the wheel as I bring up the tension. I don't get any pinging on the first ride.
Unfortunately most sellers of discount rims can't be counted on to BUILD a wheel correctly, which requires patience.


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## choneofakind (Sep 15, 2019)

craigstr said:


> The other issue is when I first mounted the wheels and rode down my driveway, I heard a couple spoke twangs and now the rear wheel has a little wobble. I can have my local shop true them up but I am going to raise a stink with BTLOS. I shouldnt have to deal with this with a brand new wheelset.


That's what new wheels do if the spokes aren't tensioned and then stress relieved thoroughly when they're built. This is what you pay for when you have a skilled builder assembling your wheels rather than someone at a high volume facility pushing out wheels in quantity.

I've purchased OTS wheels and hand-built wheels... the hand built sets never twang and work right out of the box while the OTS wheels (if they're not crazy high end) tend to go "twang" a few times on the first ride and need an early true/tension check.

A true/tension check at your LBS will fix things, but be aware this isn't a "I shouldn't have to deal with this with a brand new wheel set" issue,, this is a "I bought mass assembled wheels" issue. All in all, fairly common with new wheels.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Radical_53 said:


> I'm in contact with them but haven't placed an order yet. The rim looks quite interesting. Others are 1mm wider on the outside, but easily 50g heavier per rim.
> 
> Did you find out anything about how the rims are produced, any background?
> 
> Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


No, I haven't reached out to the seller yet. I've actually never purchased anything through AliExpress before. Yeah, the beadwalls are only 2.5mm thick, but that doesn't seem uncommon for the ultralight rims. The i27 version listed on the same page has 3mm thick beadwalls for the same weight. Could be a good combo with the i27 rear and i30 front. Keep us posted if there are any new developments.

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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Will do. I actually contacted them through AliExpress first and their own site after that.
Buying from the manufacturer directly gives me the opportunity to get rims just the way I want, both technical ways and concerning my own design. 


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Radical_53 said:


> Will do. I actually contacted them through AliExpress first and their own site after that.
> Buying from the manufacturer directly gives me the opportunity to get rims just the way I want, both technical ways and concerning my own design.
> 
> Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


Thanks! Could you provide a link to their website? I'm not finding it.

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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Sure, here it is: https://www.carbonbeamwheels.com/pr...less-compatible-xc-am-29er-carbon-mtb-rim-199


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## tgoods (Jan 22, 2018)

Has anyone tried the fly-weight rims like the ones below?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000468969773.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.5.98902057VuSwf0


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

tgoods said:


> Has anyone tried the fly-weight rims like the ones below?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000468969773.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.5.98902057VuSwf0


Yes I have used rims like that. They were Carbonfan 27.5 rims.

I also used a similar version from Carbonfan that were 29er but asymmetrical.

Here is my initial review 
https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/carbonfan-skyweight-carbon-rim-review-1081098.html#post13715900

I do not own either of the bikes any more, but the 27.5 was sold to a friend and he is riding it all the time without issue.

The 29er set was on a cheap Chinese HT frame that I built up as a race bike. Weighed 17lbs and was a whippet. I had no issues with it either and it would catch quite a bit of air on some of our flow trails as I went for Strava times.

I can's speak for those rims, but the Carbonfans were just fine.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

about to put through my order with BTLOS as follows 

Rim Size: 29er
Series: Premium
Version: AM
Finish: Matte
Weave: UD
Hub Type: DT SWISS 350
Spoke Count: 32H/32H
Hub Color: Black
Ratchet: Upgrade 36T
Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
Freehub: Shimano Microspline
Brake Interface: 6-bolt ( Disc )
Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
Spoke System: J-bend
Nipple: Aluminium Black
Decal colors: Black

i'm sold on cx ray spokes as ive read from a wheel builder they give a more spiteful feel guess being stiffer etc

the one thing im tossing and turning on is 350 hub vs new 240 exp initially i thought 350 will be fine but ive read the bearings are far better in the 240s also there a newer updated hub and what not but are they really worth the extra 180 usd ? will i regret going the 350s? other than that im about ready to order!


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

turner_nz said:


> about to put through my order with BTLOS as follows
> 
> Rim Size: 29er
> Series: Premium
> ...


No, I don't think you'd ever regret getting the 350s unless you really need the lighter weight... and hub weight isn't as noticeable as rim/tire weight anyway as it's central to the wheel. The bearings are better in the 240, but the 350 bearings are still good and you can opt to upgrade to the 240 bearings if/when they wear out.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

turner_nz said:


> about to put through my order with BTLOS as follows
> 
> Rim Size: 29er
> Series: Premium
> ...


If you are concerned with the extra weight of the 350's then go for the 240's. The 350's are solid and serviceable so functionality will be perfect i would think.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

You wont notice the weight or the bearings. If I put you on a bike blind you could never tell. I have wheels with 240 and 350. No noticeable difference. If you want better bearings then you can replace them when they wear out, but you have probably sold your bike at that point unless you live in the UK


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

After some questions and research here and checking around, I tried to make an order with Elite Wheels on Aliexpress although the communication was just too difficult and I didn't have confidence; I decided not to order with them due to lack of confidence in our communications.

I settled with BTLOS and placed and order for their WM-i29A:

Rim Size: 29er
- Series: Premium
- Version: AM
- Finish: Matte
- Weave: UD
- Hub Type: DT SWISS 240S EXP
- Spoke Count: 28H/28H
- Hub Color: Black
- Ratchet: EXP
- Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
- Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
- Freehub: SRAM XD
- Brake Interface: 6-bolt ( Disc )
- Spoke: Pillar Aero X-TRA 1420
- Spoke System: Straight pull
- Nipple: Brass Black
- Decal colors: None
-Weight was estimated around 1450g

I went back and forth on the DT240 vs the DT350. I was confident I would be happy with the DT350 which was about $180 less for the wheelset although I would then want/need the freehub upgrade for more points of engagement which is about $50-80. From here, I figured the extra $100 for the weight reduction and feel good factor for having the latest/greatest was enough to tip the scales for me.


Amy from BTLOS helped me through the order, although it was hard to know when she would be available to communicate (unsure if she is located in US or China?), although once we connected her communication was friendly and helpful.

BTLOS's website and wheel builder process is good; it is very clear what you are choosing, the cost and the weight. I did get the sense that you can customize some outside of what the wheel builder offers, in this case you would contact Amy/BTLOS with your request. I had some questions about what spec's to choose so I sent Amy a link to a youtube video of a trail I ride frequently. She watched the video and provided selection feedback based on that and my size/weight.

One thing I found a bit confusing about the site is that when I enter my filters (wheel size, riding style...), none of the results seemed to offer the I29a (inside width of 29mm/outside width of 35mm). The filters only showed me the XC option of i25A or Enduro i30A (30mm inside width/ 36mm outside width). Due to this, I almost missed the i29 option when configuring my order.


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

*Dont get their rim tape or valves*

I just got some BTLOS I24 29's asymmetric with DT swiss 350's...they came in at 1480 grams. They offered their 21mm rim tape and valves for $26. I had to do two wraps of tape to cover the rim bed and the valve bases were so small that they barely covered the valve hole. After mounting the tires I had leaks everywhere. Went for a ride and had to reinflate a couple of times. When I pulled the tires the tape was peeling off, just crappy tape. I ended up getting 25mm DT Swiss tape and Orange Seal versa valves and have no leaks. My first ride the rear wheel was making all kinds of twanging noises and went out of true, I had my local shop retension it and he commented that the wheel was over-tensioned.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

best valves I run are the oring valves, they seal the tape better then the wedge type valves.


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## backintheday (Aug 20, 2013)

I just bought a pair of eBay specials, 38mm deep tubeless rims with novatec hubs. When I went to seat the tires (WTB byways) today with my compressor I broke the rim!!! I had my compressor set to 100psi but don't have a proper chuck, so I just hold up the trigger nozzle to the valve stem with core taken out. It usually does the trick even though it's very leaky. Well this time before I heard all the popping of the tire seating, the rim went pop! Did I do something wrong or is it a bad rim?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

backintheday said:


> I just bought a pair of eBay specials, 38mm deep tubeless rims with novatec hubs. When I went to seat the tires (WTB byways) today with my compressor I broke the rim!!! I had my compressor set to 100psi but don't have a proper chuck, so I just hold up the trigger nozzle to the valve stem with core taken out. It usually does the trick even though it's very leaky. Well this time before I heard all the popping of the tire seating, the rim went pop! Did I do something wrong or is it a bad rim?


Several possibilities.

I'd speculate that the tire bead blew off the rim, which in turn damaged the sidewall of the rim. There is a possibility of user error if the tire wasn't fully installed around the entire circumference. Although the instance of that which I've witnessed was with a tube: the tube was under the tire bead in one spot, and as it was inflated it essentially lifted the bead, eventually blowing over the sidewall and bending it outward (aluminum rim).

Another possibility is the rim was either poorly designed or poorly built, and couldn't take the force. The strands of carbon in the photo certainly don't seem right . . . I would expect a proper layup w/ sufficient resin wouldn't release such clean strands of fiber.

What is the rim width and tire size?
Installed tubeless w/ tape? Or tubed?

Might be able to make better guesses if you had photos of the bare rim; hard to see the actual damage w/ the tire/etc in the photo.


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## backintheday (Aug 20, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> Several possibilities.
> 
> I'd speculate that the tire bead blew off the rim, which in turn damaged the sidewall of the rim. There is a possibility of user error if the tire wasn't fully installed around the entire circumference. Although the instance of that which I've witnessed was with a tube: the tube was under the tire bead in one spot, and as it was inflated it essentially lifted the bead, eventually blowing over the sidewall and bending it outward (aluminum rim).
> 
> ...


Tubeless rim, 25mm wide with tape, WTB byway tubeless tire 700x40. No inner tube was used.

The tire did not come out of the rim.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

So the rim is damaged in two different spots? 
All those fibers were blown out from where? . . . the inner side of sidewall? the rim bed?


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

those fibers show a flaw in the rim where not enough resin sealed all the fibers and the rim could not handle a simple inflation.

Get a refund, you have to fight for it, dont talk about chuck or airpressure. Just say rim blew up before the bead even seated, and look at the exposed fibers that did not get the required amount of resin. 


If those are fibers from the tire i would say user error, we cant tell with tire still on rim


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## backintheday (Aug 20, 2013)

Outhouse said:


> those fibers show a flaw in the rim where not enough resin sealed all the fibers and the rim could not handle a simple inflation.
> 
> Get a refund, you have to fight for it, dont talk about chuck or airpressure. Just say rim blew up before the bead even seated, and look at the exposed fibers that did not get the required amount of resin.
> 
> If those are fibers from the tire i would say user error, we cant tell with tire still on rim


Thanks for the insight about the exposed fibers. They are indeed from the rim, not the tire.


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## backintheday (Aug 20, 2013)

Outhouse said:


> those fibers show a flaw in the rim where not enough resin sealed all the fibers and the rim could not handle a simple inflation.
> 
> Get a refund, you have to fight for it, dont talk about chuck or airpressure. Just say rim blew up before the bead even seated, and look at the exposed fibers that did not get the required amount of resin.
> 
> If those are fibers from the tire i would say user error, we cant tell with tire still on rim


I just heard back from the seller. They said that the rim tape they include with these _tubeless_ rims is not tubeless and would allow too much air into the rim cavity which would cause this failure. Do you buy that? They did offer to send me a new set of rims for me to re-build the wheels. I can build wheels myself so I agreed.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

backintheday said:


> I just heard back from the seller. They said that the rim tape they include with these _tubeless_ rims is not tubeless and would allow too much air into the rim cavity which would cause this failure. Do you buy that? They did offer to send me a new set of rims for me to re-build the wheels. I can build wheels myself so I agreed.


Of course we don't buy that, but you bought that. I would hold Nextie, LB, Nobl, Nox, Derby and any other wheel manufacturer accountable, because they know what they are doing and make a good product. You bought a no-name wheel off of ebay by all accounts. If I were you I would contest it, but you chose to deal with a shady seller in the first place.

Here's one of Nextie's XC weight weenie rims, max tire pressure is listed as 70psi: https://www.nextie.com/ultralight-mountain-clincher-27mm-NXT29UM27

Here's a more road setup, 39mm deep, max PSI 100: https://www.nextie.com/2020-all-road-31mm-NXT39ARX


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

backintheday said:


> I just heard back from the seller. They said that the rim tape they include with these _tubeless_ rims is not tubeless and would allow too much air into the rim cavity which would cause this failure. Do you buy that? They did offer to send me a new set of rims for me to re-build the wheels. I can build wheels myself so I agreed.


I was wondering about that red stuff in the photo, which looks like a conventional rim strip, not tape. That's why I asked if you were tubed/tubeless.

Did you purchase a wheelset or rims? I'm assuming a wheelset. I don't find it unusual that they would install a standard rim strip rather than tape, despite the rim's tubeless-readiness, on wheels intended for road/gravel where the majority of riders are still running tubes.

Their explanation is somewhat conceivable in theory, but hard to imagine in practive. The rim isn't designed for forces pressing outward from the inner rim cavity. But its hard to imagine how a meaningful pressure differential could develop for such damage. Air could pass around the rim strip into the cavity, of course, but only with a pressure differential (higher pressure in tire than cavity) driving it, and in that case the outward force is "negative". Eventually the pressure could equalize between the cavity and tire, which implies neutral force on the rim bed. I don't see how one could further increase the cavity pressure, beyond the tire pressure, given that the path of the air is through the tire to the cavity.

This all assumes air was entering through a valve stem which was seated tight on rim bed.

The only way I can imagine creating meaingful pressure inside the rim cavity would be by flowing air directly into the cavity, say if you taped the entire rim, including over the valve hole in rim bed, and then shot air into the open valve hole in upper rim.


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## backintheday (Aug 20, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Of course we don't buy that, but you bought that. I would hold Nextie, LB, Nobl, Nox, Derby and any other wheel manufacturer accountable, because they know what they are doing and make a good product. You bought a no-name wheel off of ebay by all accounts. If I were you I would contest it, but you chose to deal with a shady seller in the first place.
> 
> Here's one of Nextie's XC weight weenie rims, max tire pressure is listed as 70psi: https://www.nextie.com/ultralight-mountain-clincher-27mm-NXT29UM27
> 
> Here's a more road setup, 39mm deep, max PSI 100: https://www.nextie.com/2020-all-road-31mm-NXT39ARX


Easy there buddy.

Yes I bought a discount pair of wheels and I expected a discount product with discount customer service. I would not call the seller shady at all, quite the contrary. I'm not an expert, but I do think their explanation is reasonable and their resolution (shipping me two new rims) is very adequate. I am happy to take some responsibility if my naivety regarding rim strips, etc. is at least partly to blame and I think it's admirable they are making things right.

If I had paid 10x more for a pair of Enve's I might expect something different, both in regards to the rim being more robust and sending me new wheels instead of rims (though I doubt they'd let me keep the extra set of hubs).


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## backintheday (Aug 20, 2013)

InertiaMan said:


> I was wondering about that red stuff in the photo, which looks like a conventional rim strip, not tape. That's why I asked if you were tubed/tubeless.
> 
> Did you purchase a wheelset or rims? I'm assuming a wheelset. I don't find it unusual that they would install a standard rim strip rather than tape, despite the rim's tubeless-readiness, on wheels intended for road/gravel where the majority of riders are still running tubes.
> 
> ...


Yes, I bought the wheelset. I'm obviously not that expert if I did not recognize the rim tape supplied was not sufficient for a tubeless set-up. I guess I had just assumed since they were tubeless rims it would work. Like I said in my previous post, I expect some shortcuts from a discount seller so I'm not too upset about it.

I do buy that their explanation is feasible. I don't think you need a pressure diff as you are hypothesizing. I was pressurizing the cavity, which wasn't designed to be pressurized, pop! Might I expect more from a pair of Enve rims or something, maybe. When you buy discount like this you should expect issues like this, and be more expert than I obviously was to know what you're getting. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a top tier product or top tier customer service, so I am very happy with their resolution. Live and learn.

If you think anything about this is unacceptable, buying these types of products is not for you.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

backintheday said:


> I do buy that their explanation is feasible. I don't think you need a pressure diff as you are hypothesizing. I was pressurizing the cavity, which wasn't designed to be pressurized, pop!


If there isn't a pressure differential, then there is no force to cause your "pop." The pressure on the tire side of rim bed would oppose the pressure on the cavity side.

I think we'd all like to see photos of the rim damage w/o tire so we can see the actual nature of the rim failure/damage.

You also never answered the question about the damage locations. The photos appear to show two distinctively different spots: one sidewall crack, and another w/ fibers from rim bed. Very hard to understand how two different rim locations would fail simulataneously in different ways,


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

backintheday said:


> Easy there buddy.
> 
> Yes I bought a discount pair of wheels and I expected a discount product with discount customer service. I would not call the seller shady at all, quite the contrary. I'm not an expert, but I do think their explanation is reasonable and their resolution (shipping me two new rims) is very adequate. I am happy to take some responsibility if my naivety regarding rim strips, etc. is at least partly to blame and I think it's admirable they are making things right.
> 
> If I had paid 10x more for a pair of Enve's I might expect something different, both in regards to the rim being more robust and sending me new wheels instead of rims (though I doubt they'd let me keep the extra set of hubs).


Sure it's shady. Rims like that should either come with tubeless tape or nothing at all. The exception should be that they will be used for tubeless. Anything else is ridiculous. I've bought around 12 rims from 2 of the big chinese CF rim manufaturers, as well as tested rims from a startup. None of these came with a rim strip.


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

markcm said:


> Amy from BTLOS helped me through the order, although it was hard to know when she would be available to communicate (unsure if she is located in US or China?), although once we connected her communication was friendly and helpful.
> 
> BTLOS's website and wheel builder process is good; it is very clear what you are choosing, the cost and the weight. I did get the sense that you can customize some outside of what the wheel builder offers, in this case you would contact Amy/BTLOS with your request. I had some questions about what spec's to choose so I sent Amy a link to a youtube video of a trail I ride frequently. She watched the video and provided selection feedback based on that and my size/weight.


+1

Great customer service and communication from Amy at BTLOS. Replies typically took a day for me, but that's to be expected if they're in a completely different time zone.


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## cointossm2 (Nov 12, 2018)

I was planning to order weareone with Hydra but after reading a few pages on this thread. I went with this... Hopefully, I made the right decision.

I weight about 143lbs so I went with 28 spokes. What do you guys think?


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

cointossm2 said:


> I was planning to order weareone with Hydra but after reading a few pages on this thread. I went with this... Hopefully, I made the right decision.
> 
> I weight about 143lbs so I went with 28 spokes. What do you guys think?


My opinion probably carries less significance since my order is still pending with BTLOS but... My opinion is that your order looks good. the i30A is a 36mm outer width lower profile asymmetrical rim that should be pretty tough. From what I can tell about the 28 vs 32 spokes, its more a case of how hard you are on your wheels. If you break a spoke on a 32 you have a better chance of riding out vs walking out. I've never broken a spoke, I went with the 28 as well.

That is just my opinion not knowing how or where you ride or what your needs/expectations are.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

About to pull the trigger on the new i34as profile btlos rim


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

turner_nz said:


> About to pull the trigger on the new i34as profile btlos rim


Hahaha. Figures they come out with these now since I just ordered a set of i34a for my downhill bike about a month ago and last week since I broke a bontrager wheel I ordered a set of i34a for my Ebike. Would have liked to get the new shape for both sets. They havent shipped the ebike wheels yet. Wonder if they can swap out for the new hoops


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Hahaha. Figures they come out with these now since I just ordered a set of i34a for my downhill bike about a month ago and last week since I broke a bontrager wheel I ordered a set of i34a for my Ebike. Would have liked to get the new shape for both sets. They havent shipped the ebike wheels yet. Wonder if they can swap out for the new hoops


If your order is with BTLOS, email Amy and ask. I made a mistake sizing my hoop when I ordered, emailed and she corrected it for me.


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## Schnieker (Feb 5, 2016)

*Customs?*

Morning folks: this thread seems mostly quiet about any customs duties? If I order from BTLOS to the US, will I be charged customs fees? Thanks!


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## WheelsofFire (Aug 26, 2020)

Schnieker said:


> Morning folks: this thread seems mostly quiet about any customs duties? If I order from BTLOS to the US, will I be charged customs fees? Thanks!


I found that as long it is under 800 USD you won't have to pay Custom duties , I just purchased a frame I made sure to keep under 800 with ship and taxes , hopefully I won't have to pay custom duties , if I have to pay It is 25% :madman:


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Schnieker said:


> Morning folks: this thread seems mostly quiet about any customs duties? If I order from BTLOS to the US, will I be charged customs fees? Thanks!


I'd talk with Amy at BTLOS regarding customs duties. They will work with you as much as possible.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

did you find anything out about this. I am looking to buy a set of wheels that would be over 800. that 25% makes a pretty big difference. I haven't heard of any other people mentioning duty tax before you had so it must not be that common.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

whats the deal with these new shallow profile style wheels? is there any real benefit beside the quick sales pitch they say about ligther and strong? Is there a downside to the shallow profile rims?


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## tmasta346 (Aug 24, 2014)

Any thoughts on the Carbon wheels from Light Carbon? Can get a set for $580 including shipping. XC wheels with DTSwiss 350 hubs.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

adumb said:


> whats the deal with these new shallow profile style wheels? is there any real benefit beside the quick sales pitch they say about ligther and strong? Is there a downside to the shallow profile rims?


from what i've been told there stronger and can take a rim strike better i'm not sure how there lighter maybe a 450g rim in 18mm height is stronger than a 450g in 25mm height hence they can say lighter for the strength ratio ? anyway Ibis s35 carbon rims are round 18mm so must be a step in the right direction as they would have done there homework on the profile but someone with more knowledge could pitch in maybe ?


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

One thing I see for the Carbonfan new version is thicker beads, eg. 3.4mm instead of 3. 42 outer and 35 inner at 430+ or - 15g and$356/pr shipped. Doesn't order as T800 XC on this page. $424 T800 at another page. 390g.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

adumb said:


> whats the deal with these new shallow profile style wheels? is there any real benefit beside the quick sales pitch they say about ligther and strong? Is there a downside to the shallow profile rims?


There is a We Are One Youtube video where the owner of the company discusses this. Instead of a spoke bed structure and a bead lip structure being joined together by thin carbon sections in deep rims the shallow rims are made to be one structure and everything moves together when encountering an impact.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

adumb said:


> whats the deal with these new shallow profile style wheels? is there any real benefit beside the quick sales pitch they say about ligther and strong? Is there a downside to the shallow profile rims?


Less lateral stiffness. It does make a weaker wheel but some people want that.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TylerVernon said:


> Less lateral stiffness. It does make a weaker wheel but some people want that.


That's one thing that has intrigued me about the Zipp Zero Moto wheels/rims.

The basic concept behind it is a bit wonky to me. If the rims are as vertically flexible as they suggest, you'd have spokes going completely slack every time you hit a moderately sized rock.

Wouldn't that seriously compromise wheel longevity?


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Aluminum wheels have always been like that, I’d even guess even the softest and shallowest carbon rim of this generation is stiffer than any of the later, lighter aluminum rims.

Apart from impact resistance, I don’t really see the point though.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

I'm thinking I'll still go the i34as the 18mm depth I demod a ripmo af before I got mine and it had s35 carbon rims which are near identical to the i34as profile and found them exc3llant at holding a line and micro changes where really noticable, while being compliant my current s35 alloy wheelset feels very soft and has alot of sideways movement, feels slightly dull and unresponsive I'm worried the 25mm rim depth will be to laterally stiff.


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## cointossm2 (Nov 12, 2018)

They claimed shallow profile is stronger than their regular rims due to thicker corners where tires are seated. Not sure if that is true. Thought?


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

It would be tougher against impacts, yes. Also the wider beads will put less stress on the tire during a pinch compression so it would take more force to cut it.


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## Mortsnarb (Apr 18, 2012)

Looking at the BTLOS 34AS when you are "choose your version" whats the difference between AM EN and DH?? i was going go with the premium wheel since why not lol. but cant tell the difference on those options.. its going on my sentinel so its my enduro/trail bike and i weigh 200# kitted up


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Mortsnarb said:


> Looking at the BTLOS 34AS when you are "choose your version" whats the difference between AM EN and DH?? i was going go with the premium wheel since why not lol. but cant tell the difference on those options.. its going on my sentinel so its my enduro/trail bike and i weigh 200# kitted up


More carbon and more weight as you go AM to DH. I think 20-30g per step up. Dig into their website more. I'm pretty sure I saw it somewhere.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

SoCal-Rider said:


> More carbon and more weight as you go AM to DH. I think 20-30g per step up. Dig into their website more. I'm pretty sure I saw it somewhere.


pretty sure he hit the nail on the head. the am to dh is more weight for a stonger rim, but the difference from standard to premium is more strength and lighter. they use something called t700 resin and t800 resin and the premium version has more t800 resin in it which actually make it strong but also lighter.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

adumb said:


> pretty sure he hit the nail on the head. the am to dh is more weight for a stonger rim, but the difference from standard to premium is more strength and lighter. they use something called t700 resin and t800 resin and the premium version has more t800 resin in it which actually make it strong but also lighter.


Technical correction - the t700 and t800 refer to the carbon fibers, not the resin.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

Btw, my BTLOS gravel wheels have been awesome. I would order from them again.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Received my Carbonfan 30 ID rims yesterday, they're 24h front, 28h rear, gloss UD with a stealth logo. Very nicely done.

Arthur showed me them at 360g on his scale, on my fish scale they weigh 370g each, but that's probably just my scale. I'll be building them with Berd spokes to try and equal the Notubes Valors in weight with better stiffness. Arthur is a gentleman, wish I could work with him on other projects.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Those look nice. I've always liked gloss. What hubs you going with?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

TylerVernon said:


> Those look nice. I've always liked gloss. What hubs you going with?


I evaluated going with all-new hubs but that could cost me $900 or more with spare-no-expense DT Swiss 180s or 240s straight pull.

I decided to keep my rear DT Swiss 240 ISO flanged hub and replace my front hub with a Notubes Neo boost. I was disappointed to find out that DT Swiss doesn't make an ISO 240 in 24h.

I still think it's possible to build this up to 1200-1300g with Berd spokes, and possibly as low as 1100g with those super-expensive new hubs.


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## mit3k (Apr 6, 2008)

I have broken ROVAL CONTROL SL 29 rear wheel. I would like to buy some new cheap carbon rim, but I'm not sure if everything will fit. Hub is made from DT Swiss 240's internals with 28 DT Swiss Competition Race spokes and DT Swiss Pro Lock hexagonal nipples. https://www.specialized.com/ni/en/roval-control-sl-29-148/p/155792?color=&searchText=30117-2209

What spokes hole diameter I need to choose, 2.5 (for internal nipple)?


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Arthur is a gentleman[/QUOTE said:


> Yes....Arthur at Carbonfan is great to work with. We have ordered about 300 rims from him and his customer service is hard to beat, plus a great warranty and a great product.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

mit3k said:


> I have broken ROVAL CONTROL SL 29 rear wheel. I would like to buy some new cheap carbon rim, but I'm not sure if everything will fit. Hub is made from DT Swiss 240's internals with 28 DT Swiss Competition Race spokes and DT Swiss Pro Lock hexagonal nipples. https://www.specialized.com/ni/en/roval-control-sl-29-148/p/155792?color=&searchText=30117-2209
> 
> What spokes hole diameter I need to choose, 2.5 (for internal nipple)?


So the short answer is that you need a 29er rim with 28 holes. The long answer is that you will likely need to buy new spokes and new nipples. I would recommend either (a) buying a wheel building book and doing research, (b) go to a local bike shop and talk to them about getting a new wheel built or (c) consider sending your old hub to one of the carbon rim manufacturers and having them build the wheel for you with your old hub and their rims.


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## cointossm2 (Nov 12, 2018)

Do you guys know anything about "Coating Free" finish? They now have 3 options to pick Coating Free, Matte, and Glossy.


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

I got a quote from Amy of $175/rim for the WM-I29A which doesn't seem all that great of a price. Seems there's lots of options out there in the $150 range that are comparable.


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

we summarized our (little) experience with china rims and posted in our "catalog"

rear photo, real weight, real feedback

in general, we don`t see a lot of difference between different stores (but we love SPEEDSAFE), and we dont know any story with rim failure without rider error or crash

https://catalog.alibuy.biz/product-category/bike-components/wheels/rims/


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

cointossm2 said:


> Do you guys know anything about "Coating Free" finish? They now have 3 options to pick Coating Free, Matte, and Glossy.


Get the coating free, there is no way to hide imperfections.


----------



## mit3k (Apr 6, 2008)

Thank you for the answer, I will go with the C.


----------



## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

mit3k said:


> Thank you for the answer, I will go with the C.


Based on my experience with my BTLOS wheels, I'd probably do the same. :thumbsup:


----------



## cointossm2 (Nov 12, 2018)

Anybody broken BTLOS wheels yet?


----------



## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

cointossm2 said:


> Anybody broken BTLOS wheels yet?


There was at least one report of a break in the BTLOS thread. See post #188. I believe it was resolved satisfactorily.


----------



## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

cointossm2 said:


> Anybody broken BTLOS wheels yet?


Nope but i've had plenty of loud hard hits that made me stop and check my wheels. I try to run enough pressure to avoid that though..


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## mcbiko (May 22, 2015)

tmasta346 said:


> Any thoughts on the Carbon wheels from Light Carbon? Can get a set for $580 including shipping. XC wheels with DTSwiss 350 hubs.


I'm also interested in those wheels... anyone know how they stack up against the BTLOS wheels as far as reliability is concerned. Also, what type of shipping was included for that $580 quote?


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

mcbiko said:


> I'm also interested in those wheels... anyone know how they stack up against the BTLOS wheels as far as reliability is concerned. Also, what type of shipping was included for that $580 quote?


You'll be lucky if there is anybody that can give you a direct comparison of the durability of the rims from these two companies. But wow, $580 shipped for a DT Swiss 350 wheelset is a great deal.

that said, I've dished a lot of abuse on my BTLOS wheelset (original i29 rims that are not offered any longer) over the past two years and other than a bunch of scratches on the outside of the rim they have never required truing and are still going strong. I couldn't really ask for more,


----------



## Schnieker (Feb 5, 2016)

I ordered the below two days ago. I asked for a discount, and got free shipping; looks like they have multiple coupon codes in use. Mine was CNY2020. Work with Amy was fine, will keep you updated on the timing:


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

tmasta346 said:


> Any thoughts on the Carbon wheels from Light Carbon? Can get a set for $580 including shipping. XC wheels with DTSwiss 350 hubs.





mcbiko said:


> I'm also interested in those wheels... anyone know how they stack up against the BTLOS wheels as far as reliability is concerned. Also, what type of shipping was included for that $580 quote?


I'd say go for it. Light Carbon has been around for awhile and from what I remember, has a decent reputation. BTLOS seems to be the not new trend in this thread but I'd personally set my bar with someone like Nextie or Light Bicycle as they have been around a lot longer.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

*Follow up after receiving my BTLOS wheels*

My BTLOS i29 asymmetrical "premium" AM wheelset with DT240 exp have arrived and I have one short ride on them. Here's an overview of my experience so far.

*Background:*
I am new to carbon wheels, I have a 2019 Transition Smuggler and my stock stans wheels are pretty trashed, I just dented the rear so bad I have to run a tube to hold air. I weigh 160lbs and ride a mix of trail/Allmountain.

I did a reasonable amount of internet searching and used this thread to get up to speed with current options, vendors, specifications, terminology and such.

*Pre order "doing my homework"*
I tried to order a wheelset from AliExpress, seller ELITEWHEELS, the language barrier was challenging and after almost 2 weeks of trying to achieve confidence that we were on the same page for specifications and price I determined ELITEWHEELS is not capable of providing the level of communication I needed to feel confident ordering with them.

I had already been looking at/comparing BTLOS and a few others. At this time, I looked closer at BTLOS, I tested communications with a few questions. While there was a little time gap occasionally, Amy always replied and her response was easy to understand and answered my questions fully

_*Decision made, going with BTLOS:*_
I really liked the website layout for wheel building at BTLOS, it was easy to understand, navigate and seemed accurate. I communicated with Amy about what spec's were best for me, I sent her a youtube link to a video of the most common trials I ride which she viewed and responded to accordingly. One thing that could have been better was that the i29a wheel seemed to be a bit buried in the site.

When I ordered, it was late and I was tired, I accidentally ordered the i25a. I followed up with Amy and she updated the order to i29a for me, no change in cost. The change was never reflected in my order details, actually nothing was ever updated on the order details page when I logged in. I also assumed these would come tubeless ready, but discovered though communication with Amy that is an extra so I requested that, I paid another $20 for tape and stems to be installed.

*After the order with BTLOS was in*
The build took about 3 weeks, once I was notified of DHL shipping it took about 7-10 days to receive the wheelset.

No import tax was charged (package was marked very low value).

The wheels were packed securely. The build spec was 100% accurate including all the change requests communicated after the initial order. Each wheel had a QC tag showing weight, roundness, and flatness. The weight was less than I expected for an i29 (35mm outside width) at 1450g for the pair before the tape and valves (note that they used really nice valves and tape was applied well).

*Here is the actual order spec:*


```
Asymmetric XC Trail All Mountain carbon wheelset i29a
  - Rim Size: 29er
  - Series: Premium
  - Version: AM
  - Finish: Matte
  - Weave: UD
  - Hub Type: DT SWISS 240S EXP
  - Spoke Count: 28H/28H
  - Hub Color: Black
  - Ratchet: EXP
  - Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
  - Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
  - Freehub: SRAM XD
  - Brake Interface: 6-bolt ( Disc )
  - Spoke: Pillar Aero X-TRA 14..
  - Spoke System: Straight pull
  - Nipple: Brass Black
  - Decal colors: None
```
The cost was $960 shipped, plus the $20 for tape and stems, so $980 total.

*My thoughts after first ride on the i29a AM Premium from BTLOS*
I am not a wheel expert but they look and feel well built, I threw on my tires, brake rotors, cassette, added some stans fluid, pumped them up and everything looked and felt tight and true.

On my first ride which was a 7 mile trail ride of about 600 assent/descent on dry trail with some nice turns, berms, some roots and such the wheels felt lighter, faster and stiffer than the stock Stans Flow alloy wheels. Ground contact/control felt great, I was running the same tires and pressure as before (22 upfront 24 in rear). I don't know that this stiffer is good bad or different yet, but I can tell they are stiffer.

*Summary*
I am thankful for the information I found in this thread and around the forums, I am happy with the wheelset, cost/value, and communication/support I received from BTLOS, I would definitely use them again based on the experience I have had so far.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

Thanks for the thorough review of your BTLOS experience. I echos mine pretty closely. Good product, good service, good price. I hope they keep that up!


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

How accurate BTLOS ERD measurements? 

Looking for something between 596 and 600.


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

*Some followup questions*

I'm thinking of getting this exact build from BTlos. Just curious, did you go for the J-bend or straight pull hubs? What spokes? And in general, could you tell us more about the build quality? Did the spokes seem evenly tensioned etc?

Thanks, any input is appreciated!


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

I'm thinking of getting this exact build from BTlos. Just curious, why did you end up going for bladed spokes? And in general, could you tell us more about the build quality? Did the spokes seem evenly tensioned etc?

Thanks, any input is appreciated!



markcm said:


> My BTLOS i29 asymmetrical "premium" AM wheelset with DT240 exp have arrived and I have one short ride on them. Here's an overview of my experience so far.
> 
> *Background:*
> I am new to carbon wheels, I have a 2019 Transition Smuggler and my stock stans wheels are pretty trashed, I just dented the rear so bad I have to run a tube to hold air. I weigh 160lbs and ride a mix of trail/Allmountain.
> ...


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

I guess just an outdated update on the Light Bicycle custom carbon fiber rims I ordered back in 2012/2013, which were the new (back then) 33mm wide hookless reinforced 26". I had them made with no holes on the outer wall so no strip needed for tubeless, in mate 3k carbon finish. They are still holding up very well, a few scuff and dings from rocks, but no delaminating or defects. I mean I pretty much built a DH strong wheel set for a light XC rig use and I'm lightweight and the bike don't see anything rough, is always covered and not exposed to sunlight, etc so they better be holding up lol.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

Leyenda said:


> I'm thinking of getting this exact build from BTlos. Just curious, why did you end up going for bladed spokes? And in general, could you tell us more about the build quality? Did the spokes seem evenly tensioned etc?
> 
> Thanks, any input is appreciated!


The flat blade and straight pull spoke arrangement was honestly a bit random, they did send a few extra spokes with the wheels incase..

While I am not a wheel builder myself, I have worked on bikes and motorcycles my whole life so I'll do my best to estimate the build quality here.

I am personally impressed with the build, the spokes seem to be evenly torqued, there has been no noises or creaking when riding and I've even landed on a few roots pretty hard (running ~24psi) and was worried I caused damage but, nothing at all. The impacts I've already subjected these wheels too are very equivalent to the root I landed on which crushed my stan's stock aluminum wheel (exact same tire and pressure too). I'm running WTB Tough tires, no flats and no signs on the rims after landing square on two roots already.

I was also impressed that each wheel came with a QC tag stating weight, flatness and roundness.

I love these wheels, they roll fast as heck and feel very well connected to the ground.

I would 100% use BTLOS again, everything about the transaction has been good and I am very happy with the performance as a noted improvement from my original Stans which were ok but not all that durable.

I hope that helps.


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## cointossm2 (Nov 12, 2018)

In case someone wondering about i30AS weight... 240 EXP with 54T

Rim: WM-i30AS
Series: Premium
Version: EN
Finish: Coating Free
Weave: UD
Hub Type: DT SWISS 240 EXP
Spoke Count: 28H/28H
Ratchet: EXP 54T
Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
Freehub: Shimano Microspline
Brake Interface: 6-bolt ( Disc )
Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
Spoke System: Straight pull
Nipple: Aluminium Black
Decal colors: None


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I don't think they sent you the i30-AS model. It looks too deep. It's supposed to be 18mm deep, that looks like 25-30mm.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Doing some back calculations using the information provided, those are ~440g rims.


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## cointossm2 (Nov 12, 2018)

TylerVernon said:


> I don't think they sent you the i30-AS model. It looks too deep. It's supposed to be 18mm deep, that looks like 25-30mm.


See pic below


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## Ruturaj Hagawane (Mar 29, 2015)

Any idea why WM-i34A DH version is lighter than than WM-i30A AM version. If I choose WM-i34A AM version it's 134 gm lighter than WM-i30A AM version. I am looking at 27.5" wheels. (I know it's not the right subsection but seems like this place has better chances to help get me an answer).


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I broke one of my cheap Chinese rims the other day. I think my valve had a slow leak and I bombed through a rocky creek bed. Crack. Did the walk of shame back to the car. Then I ordered another rim.


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Ruturaj Hagawane said:


> Any idea why WM-i34A DH version is lighter than than WM-i30A AM version. If I choose WM-i34A AM version it's 134 gm lighter than WM-i30A AM version. I am looking at 27.5" wheels. (I know it's not the right subsection but seems like this place has better chances to help get me an answer).


Could it be as simple as a typo? Because you sure wouldn't think a dh layup would be lighter than the am model. Contact them and see what they say.


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## chowfon (Jun 2, 2009)

TylerVernon said:


> I broke one of my cheap Chinese rims the other day. I think my valve had a slow leak and I bombed through a rocky creek bed. Crack. Did the walk of shame back to the car. Then I ordered another rim.


what rim did you break and what rim did you replace with? if you replaced with same carbon rim.. i assume you find that the damage was acceptable and worth another? i'm still on fence between carbon vs aluminum.


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## evo3gsx (Sep 1, 2016)

So I'm looking at building up a set of the shallow depth BTLOS M-i30AS for my incoming Transition Spur frameset. I've emailed back and forth with BTLOS trying to decide which version to go with -- EN vs AM -- I'm getting the generic "EN will be strong for you" response without any real rationale. I'm 190lbs / 6'2" fairly aggressive rider in the AZ desert. I'm sure the EN version will be stronger since weight is ~50g more per rim due to additional sidewall thickness but I'm trying to determine whether the AM version will be the wrong choice for my application. I would really like to shave off the weight if possible -- focus on this build is to go as lightweight as possible but obviously don't want a rim that's not strong enough for it's intended use. Plan is to do the premium series in 32H. 

For those who are similar size / riding style in rocky regions, are you taking the weight hit for the EN version? I see most people are going with the AM but not sure if these are lighter riders who primarily ride mellower / less rocky terrain.


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

When I read 190 pounds, aggressive and Arizona - I'd definitely get the EN version despite the weight difference. Besides, 100 grams is like 4 ounces of water


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Premium Series i30 shallow is still 445g in Enduro layup. That's pretty dang light. 

At 190 I'd say you don't have much to worry about. You could probably do the rear with EN layup and the front AM. Rock a lightweight insert out back and you'd never have any issues. 

I've got 30lbs on you and yea, then I'd start being more particular about layup strength.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

You couldn't notice the weight difference if you tried. If I weighed 190 I would be going with a burlier version especially if I was hitting up Sedona and South Mountain on the regular. Not calling you fat, just bigger than I, but probably ride similar styles in similar areas.

I haven't had issues with lighter wheels, but you got me by anywhere from 15-30lbs.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

chowfon said:


> what rim did you break and what rim did you replace with? if you replaced with same carbon rim.. i assume you find that the damage was acceptable and worth another? i'm still on fence between carbon vs aluminum.


I broke one of the superlight versions, T800, like 300g for a 29er. I ordered that new low profile type. I found the damage acceptable. I build my own wheels and I have backups so it's not a huge deal.


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## Mortsnarb (Apr 18, 2012)

Hello everyone.

I have 5 rides on my BTLOS wheels. FYI I weight about 200#s and like the gnar!

Here is the breakdown:
WM-i30AS
- Series: Premium
- Version: EN
- Finish: Matte
- Weave: UD
- Hub Type: DT SWISS 240 EXP
- Spoke Count: 32H/32H
- Ratchet: EXP
- Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
- Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
- Freehub: SRAM XD
- Brake Interface: 6-bolt ( Disc )
- Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
- Spoke System: J-bend
- Nipple: Aluminium Black
- Decal colors: None

So far id say they are great! just what i was expecting.

Weight front - 748g
Back - 835g

saved about 500g from my previous stans wheels so that weight is noticeable.

They are stiffer then the stans and dont seem overly stiff so the shallow rim profile might just be the ticket.

Quality seems great. More time will really give the answer to this but for now they are awesome and I would recommend.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

CX-Rays save about 35g over Sapim D-Lights at a premium of almost $70 in a BTLOS build with 28 spokes.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Ruturaj Hagawane said:


> Any idea why WM-i34A DH version is lighter than than WM-i30A AM version. If I choose WM-i34A AM version it's 134 gm lighter than WM-i30A AM version. I am looking at 27.5" wheels. (I know it's not the right subsection but seems like this place has better chances to help get me an answer).


WM-i34A 650b: 1488.2+/-25g
WM-i30A 650B: 1493.8+/-25g

Interesting observation.

I too am puzzled by their attributing the M-i34AS as "Downhill" but the M-i30AS as "Enduro". Wouldn't the narrower rim be better for downhill?

29" M-i34AS Standard: AM 440+/-15g; DH 500+/-15g
29" M-i30AS Standard: AM 415+/-15g, EN 465+/-15g

I wonder if they believe the wider rim can handle impact better? Or just that they only do a DH layup for the i34. It's not a big difference in material, 60 extra grams vs 50 extra grams vs their respective AM layups.


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

I am looking for a set of 650b carbon wheels to run on a bike that has 12x100 front and 12x142 rear spacing. It looks like all the btlos offered hubs are 15mm thru axle? 

Anyone have a recommendation for a chinese manufacturer that sells something with 12x disc 650 wheels?


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

I bought bought 650b wheels from them with that spacing and I just ordered 12mm thru axle caps for the DT Swiss350 hubs. Easy swap.


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

right now there are few wheelsets with discount with SPEEDSAFE rims

they are ain`t close to best wheels, but if you are looking for a cheap (and good) rims you can get them in wheelset

1580 gram 29 wheelset (450 usd with novatec hubs)
https://bit.ly/3aTGxfS








1360 gram 700c road disk wheelset (500 usd)
https://bit.ly/2SgnZQd








1260 gram 650b gravel (??) wheelset (450 usd)
https://bit.ly/3gSoCtG








1330 gram 29 wheelset (450 usd, as for me its the only option can be considered as an upgrade for light riders)
https://bit.ly/3eMDvLn


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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

Is there a list anywhere of all the reputable chinese carbon wheel sellers? I see btlos is popular here, and I know farsports and light bicycle are popular as well, but seems like there are a solid handful or more companies I just can't remember all their names.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Zachua said:


> Is there a list anywhere of all the reputable chinese carbon wheel sellers? I see btlos is popular here, and I know farsports and light bicycle are popular as well, but seems like there are a solid handful or more companies I just can't remember all their names.


Nextie-super reputable
Carbonfan-reputable


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

i can tell by sellers on Ali

A-One shop (SPEEDSAFE brand) is popular in Ukraine. Its not the chippest carbon rim brand on ali
ELITE wheels seems like a major brand as well as CST (we do have experience with wheelsets from both, i got short review on them)

I would suggest to look at "official" brand shops, contact sellers, see how fast they answer

In general warranty works fine, but sometimes you have to open disputes (and their result is quite depended on your account rating)


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

evo3gsx said:


> So I'm looking at building up a set of the shallow depth BTLOS M-i30AS for my incoming Transition Spur frameset. I've emailed back and forth with BTLOS trying to decide which version to go with -- EN vs AM -- I'm getting the generic "EN will be strong for you" response without any real rationale. I'm 190lbs / 6'2" fairly aggressive rider in the AZ desert. I'm sure the EN version will be stronger since weight is ~50g more per rim due to additional sidewall thickness but I'm trying to determine whether the AM version will be the wrong choice for my application. I would really like to shave off the weight if possible -- focus on this build is to go as lightweight as possible but obviously don't want a rim that's not strong enough for it's intended use. Plan is to do the premium series in 32H.
> 
> For those who are similar size / riding style in rocky regions, are you taking the weight hit for the EN version? I see most people are going with the AM but not sure if these are lighter riders who primarily ride mellower / less rocky terrain.


I'm also 6' 2", but 180 lbs. I've placed a deposit two weeks ago on a Large X01 Transition Spur in Black Powder color.According to the bike shop and Transition Bikes, the ETA for my Spur is January 2021.
I was trying to decide which wheels should I go with on that bike, since I'm planning to sell the stock wheels right away together with my Yeti SB100. Originally was thinking to just get a Spur frame and then build it up, but no frames available at least until May according to Transition.
Spur will be the bike that I'm planning to use on 80% of my rides that will be more of XC/Trail. For the other 20% of the Aggressive Trail/Enduro riding,I'll use my Yeti SB130 LR(ish).


I was trying to decide to get for the Spur one of the 3 wheels options:

(1) Ibis S28 w/ i9 Hydra 32H CenterLock / Sapim CX-Ray - 28.6mm IW (35mm OW) / 18.35mm Hight / 1,580g

(2) We Are One Faction w/ i9 Hydra 32H CenterLock / Sapim CX-Ray - 27mm IW / 21mm Hight / 1,665g

(3) BTLOS WM-i27AS w/ i9 Hydra 32H CenterLock / Sapim CX-Ray - 27mm IW (33mm OW) / 18mm Hight / 1,372.8 (+/-25g)


But after browsing a bit more on BTLOS website, now I'm considering to go with
BTLOS WM-i30AS w/ i9 Hydra 32H CenterLock / Sapim CX-Ray - 30mm IW (37mm OW) / 18mm Hight / 1,452.8(+/-25g)


80g seems like not a huge penalty for additional 3mm of Inner Width. I'm planning on using 2.35"-2.4" tires on my Spur anyway and according to Maxxis they recommend to use 30mm Inner Width rims with their WT tires. Plus on MTBR Transition Spur forum seems like Spur owners prefer the wider rims over the stock 25mm IW ones.
BTLOS are significantly lighter compared to Ibis and We AreOne wheels. Which in one way seems like a great advantage, but also kinda concerns me a bit. I was not able to find tons of reviews about BTLOS, but I didn't see anything about cracked BTLOS rims ether.


If you already had a slightly bigger bike 130/150mm travel with 30mm IW carbon wheels at 1,825g for the more demanding rides, would you still go with another 30mm IW BTLOS Wheelset at 1,452g for your Spur for pure Trail riding, or would you go with the 27mm IW at 1,372g ?

Thanks!


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I would not spend good money on anything less than 30mm. 

Even in WCDH the Scott Team (Nino and Kate) are running 30mm rims.

I get the feeling that some are looking at these 27mm rims and saying "oh but the are so much lighter!" This is like looking at old alloy and steel 26" MTB frames and saying "oh but they were so much lighter!" Well yea, they use a lot less material. 

Just look around on PinkBike Buy/Sell listings at all these wheels being sold: 9/10 they are narrower. Usually it's because their owners tried wider rims, saw the benefits, and have moved on. 

I previously ran 27mm wide rims and while they were fine, I also immediately noticed the added support, precision, and stiffness of a 30mm-35mm rim.


----------



## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

PHeller said:


> I would not spend good money on anything less than 30mm.
> 
> Even in WCDH the Scott Team (Nino and Kate) are running 30mm rims.
> 
> ...


Meh, I'm building up a set of the btlos i27 shallow rims now for the xc bike. What people are selling on pinkbike doesn't mean much to me. I already own wider rims, i30-i45, and I think i30 is pretty ideal for ~2.4-2.5 tires.
i27 will be fine for 2.3/2.4 tires. Part of my reasoning for going with the i27 is that I'd want to run light inserts to protect the rims either way, and going with the lighter rim will offset some of that weight gain while the insert will also help compensate for any loss in sidewall support, which is minimal anyway... this is 3mm we're talking about... 10%. Also, narrower rims are less prone to impact damage, but admittedly, at 3mm that difference will also be pretty negligible.


----------



## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Loic Bruni uses the DT Swiss EX 471 rims...which is 25mm IW. What rim widths pro runs really doesn't mean all that much. Nino also runs a 680mm width handlebar...I don't see anyone advocating that.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-loic-brunis-specialized-demo.html


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

iErnest85 said:


> would you still go with another 30mm IW BTLOS Wheelset at 1,452g for your Spur for pure Trail riding, or would you go with the 27mm IW at 1,372g ?
> 
> Thanks!


I'd go with even wider 34mm rims in that same rim profile. You get to run lower pressure or tires from Spec or XRs from Trek with higher volume and more rounded profile. I wish they offered this rim in a 39.

Marco Osbourne won an enduro race on a Spur. Other guys were also riding Spurs.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

GT87 said:


> What people are selling on pinkbike doesn't mean much to me.


It's not about "PinkBike" it's about how products a viewed.

Wider Rims are viewed as new, modern, etc. Therefore, they are easier to resell at a higher price.

I know people who had struggled to sell really nice carbon wheels because they were 25mm. They actually had more "bites" trying to market them as a gravel wheelset, haha

BTW: narrower rims will work better with stiffer tires. DH tires with inserts will be different than XC tires without. So we're comparing apples and oranges there.

I just don't think it's worth trying to chase the lightest wheelset at expense of rim width (or durability).

I mean, there is always fiber spokes if you're really serious about wheel weight.


----------



## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

PHeller said:


> It's not about "PinkBike" it's about how products a viewed.
> 
> Wider Rims are viewed as new, modern, etc. Therefore, they are easier to resell at a higher price.
> 
> ...


I mostly in agreement with what you're saying here. I wasn't trying to be snarky with the pinkbike comment, but I'm just saying that I don't care that much about the resale value because I likely won't be selling them anytime soon, or at all. I didn't buy them to flip them and profit off of what is trendy. They're going to be used hard. And, I'll be building them myself and will have less than $530 in them with 350 hubs and lasers, so I think i'll be ok. I'm not a weight weenie but like I said this is not my only wheelset... this is currently my only carbon wheelset and I'm building it to be my light wheels to be used with 2.35 tires with inserts. No thanks on the fiber spokes, sapim lasers and brass nipples will be fine. My decision to get the i27 was not as simple as choosing the lightest option... I also think that's a good width for 2.3/2.35/2.4 tires, that will also save me over 110 grams for the pair. If I want to use heavier alloy wheels with heavier/wider tires, I already own those. Everything is a compromise. In this case I chose to sacrifice 3mm of width in order to have a 1475 gram wheelset.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I mean if you already have another wheelset then yea, it makes sense to have a dedicated XC wheelset that is a lightly as possible. 

If you were doing a single wheelset, however, I'd be inclined to run 30mm or wider.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

PHeller said:


> I mean if you already have another wheelset then yea, it makes sense to have a dedicated XC wheelset that is a lightly as possible.
> 
> If you were doing a single wheelset, however, I'd be inclined to run 30mm or wider.


Yeah, if this were my only bike/wheelset, then i'd choose 30mm+


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

i will post three issues with SPEEDSAFE rims. one of them was false-positive

i do it to show that issues unfortunately do exist

1 we thought that rim cracked, but it was just paint crack. seller offered 50% discount on new rim








2 rim just exploded with no reason on light ride. front wheel. new rim was offered, but we had to pay for shipping 








3 dent was observed on air valve hole on new rim. seller stated that it won`t affect complete wheel and offered small present on next purchase


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

How accurate are the ERDs from BTLOS?


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Might try one of these hoops for the hell of it. Was thinking about building a set of 471's (probably still will), but might try one of these too anyway (I've got enough damn hubs laying around now).

Anyone have a recommendation for the absolutely strongest wheel? I would rather a 600g 25mm wheel than a 600g 30mm wheel. Weight isn't an issue, just strength.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Sidewalk said:


> Might try one of these hoops for the hell of it. Was thinking about building a set of 471's (probably still will), but might try one of these too anyway (I've got enough damn hubs laying around now).
> 
> Anyone have a recommendation for the absolutely strongest wheel? I would rather a 600g 25mm wheel than a 600g 30mm wheel. Weight isn't an issue, just strength.


The asym 18.5mm high rim is available in a dh build with 3.5mm beads at 480g. in a 29.
Same at 30mm inner and dh 450g.
https://www.carbonfan.com/carbonfan-asymmetric-carbon-mountain-bike-rims-series
An insert will help protect your rim.


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

I'm set on buying a pair of BTLos rims laced to DT Swiss Hubs. They would be the shallow / asymmetrical rims, either the WM-i27AS (27mm internal width), or the WM-i30AS (30mm internal width), laced to the new 240exp hubs, 28 hole front and rear with Sapim D-lights up front and Sapim Race in the rear. This build is well under 1500 grams, even with brass nipples, and under $1,000!

Questions:

1. I'd like to get the straightpull version, because they look lovely and are in theory stronger / stiffer, too. Will I regret pairing SP hubs with non-bladed spokes? I read somewhere this runs the risk of the spoke simply turning in the hub hole when you're trying to turn the nipple, i.e., it's a real challenge for the wheel builder...

2. I'm thinking of pairing the 30mm rim up front with the 27mm rim in the rear. (Only if BTLos will sell this to me, of course). This is inspired by Duke rims, which sells a front/rear specific rim set with these widths (sadly out of my price range). The idea is that we run different tires and pressures on, and expect different things from, our front and rear wheels. In my case, I typically run a 2.2' - 2.3' in the rear, and a 2.3'-2.4' in the front. Any reason not to do this? For example, I'd be running the lighter, and hence in theory weaker / flexier, rim in the rear, which is not ideal...

3. This is more of a general question, but how strong / durable are these rims? They seem to be pretty much the lightest out there, which makes me wonder!

In case it matters, I'm about 175 pounds out of the shower and ride something between XC and trail (I hesitate to use the term downcountry...). These would go on an Intense Sniper T which came stock with 27mm internal width rims, which have been pretty much perfect for what/how I ride. I race a couple of times a year, just for fun - not trying to win anything. These wheels will likely be used for a 1-week stage race next year in Colombia, though, so there's that.

Any input is appreciated, thanks!


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Leyenda said:


> I'm set on buying a pair of BTLos rims laced to DT Swiss Hubs. They would be the shallow / asymmetrical rims, either the WM-i27AS (27mm internal width), or the WM-i30AS (30mm internal width), laced to the new 240exp hubs, 28 hole front and rear with Sapim D-lights up front and Sapim Race in the rear. This build is well under 1500 grams, even with brass nipples, and under $1,000!
> 
> Questions:
> 
> ...


1) any regret would only be felt by the person maintaining your wheels. In theory, the longer you go without truing the wheels, the more likely it will be that the spoke / nipple interface will stick and you can twist the spoke.

2) That's personal preference. If you're running different width tires, then go for it.

3) no experience with BTLOS so no input on this one.

On another note, going with cheaper heavier spokes but with the higher end 240 EXP hubs makes no sense to me. What is the upcharge on the hubs vs 350 hubs? When comparing straight pull centerlock 350 hubs to straight pull centerlock 240EXP hubs, you will only save 85 grams. Spend that money on CX-Ray spokes and you'll get the added benefit of building with bladed spokes. You'll probably save money and weight as well. I prefer to stick with 350 center lock j-bend hubs as they are only 75 grams heavier than the new 240 EXP 6-bolt hubs, they are significantly cheaper, and all the spokes can be the same length when rims have a 3mm offset.


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

BXCc said:


> 1) any regret would only be felt by the person maintaining your wheels. In theory, the longer you go without truing the wheels, the more likely it will be that the spoke / nipple interface will stick and you can twist the spoke.
> 
> 2) That's personal preference. If you're running different width tires, then go for it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input. The 240 hubs on full builds are about $200 more than the 350 hubs on BTLOS website. I'm willing to pay that for a newer / lighter / stiffer design with better bearings.

As to spokes: the big advantage of "cheaper" / heavier spokes, is that they are stiffer. Yes, I know CX-rays are very strong, stronger than some of their thicker spokes, and are used by pro DH riders. But stronger is not the same as stiffer. I recall reading someone's engineering doctoral thesis looking into some aspect of bicycle wheel design, and one of the takeaways about moving from 1.6mm to 1.8mm spokes is that, all else being equal, they are something like 20% laterally stiffer. So quite significant.

Then again, maybe the rims are so stiff that this will be a non-issue. Problem is, I've never ridden carbon rims...


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Leyenda said:


> Thanks for your input. The 240 hubs on full builds are about $200 more than the 350 hubs on BTLOS website. I'm willing to pay that for a newer / lighter / stiffer design with better bearings.
> 
> Then again, maybe the rims are so stiff that this will be a non-issue. Problem is, I've never ridden carbon rims...


To each their own so these are just my observations.

I've been on carbon rims since 2012 and have ridden all sorts of spokes with them. They only differences I can feel while riding is weight and points of engagement. There is no way I could ever tell the difference in a stiffer hub. Rims definitely, but not a modern hub. I prefer carbon rims over aluminum because I can easily feel the difference and I prefer the difference, but that's just me. I prefer quiet hubs and 54 poe is enough for me so I stick with DT hubs. Everything else is about finding the best weight to cost balance. The only downside to CX-Ray, Aerolite, or other light weight bladed spokes is that they tend to bend a bit easier than double butted spokes when trail debris gets caught up in them. I've never broken any, but I have bent a couple which I never really did with DT Comps.


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

Leyenda said:


> I'm set on buying a pair of BTLos rims laced to DT Swiss Hubs. They would be the shallow / asymmetrical rims, either the WM-i27AS (27mm internal width), or the WM-i30AS (30mm internal width), laced to the new 240exp hubs, 28 hole front and rear with Sapim D-lights up front and Sapim Race in the rear. This build is well under 1500 grams, even with brass nipples, and under $1,000!
> 
> Questions:
> 
> ...


I currently own 3 pairs of carbon 29er wheelsets.

(1) NEXTIE 25mm IW Ultralight F+R Rim on DT Swiss 240 28H Centerlock hub w/ 54T Ratchet, DT Aerolite bladed spokes and DT brass nipples at 1,295g (on Yeti SB100)

(2) NEXTIE 34mm IW Premium F+R Rim on i9 Hydra 32H Centerlock hub, DT Aerolite bladed spokes and DT brass nipples at 1,650g (on Ibis DV9 Hardtail)

(3) Crank Brothers Synthesis E11 on i9 Hydra hubs (Tuned Wheelset)
Front Wheel - 31.5mm IW, 28H, Spaim CX-Ray
Rear Wheel - 29.5mm IW 32H, Sapim CX-Sprint
at 1,825g (on Yeti SB130 LR)

My personal conclusion after riding on all of the 3 wheelsets for at least over a year and mixing them between all of my bikes:

Hydra hubs and DT Swiss 240 are not even in the same league. Again, that's my personal opinion. I did not have any mechanical issues with ether of the two hubs, but the difference in the engagement between the two is just day and night. After owning both, my conclusion is that I would rather build a wheelset with good aluminum rims and with Hydra hubs, then a carbon one with DT Swiss.

Crank Brothers tuned wheels are absolutely incredible when paired with Yeti SB130 LR. It's like they were meant for each other. I can definitely tell the difference in stiffness, compliance, stability, rolling resistance and speed compared to NEXTIE 34mm IW.
Crank Brothers wheels are my favorite ones out of the 3 as my SB130 is my favorite bike out of the 3 as well.

I'm planning to sell my SB100 frame and build up Transition Spur instead. So I'm kinda of tempted to build up a custom BTLOS shallow wheelset with 30mm IW 28H front wheel and 27mm IW 32H rear wheel paired to i9 Hydra hubs. Potentially could also do CX-Ray spokes in front and CX-Sprint on rear. According to my rough calculation the wheelset should come up to around 1,450g

I'm 180 lbs before my riding gear and I've never broke or cracked any of my current wheels and I'm running low pressure on all 3 wheelsets. For example on the Crank Brothers I run 18-20 psi front and 16-18 psi rear on Maxxis Dissector 2.4 tires F+R.

But in the past I did manage to crack a Roval 30mm IW carbon rim and Ibis 742 35mm IW. Carbon. Both were rear rims.

I took my NEXTIE 25mm IW Chinese Carbon wheels a few times thru some tougher stuff that I probably shouldn't, but they did held up pretty well.

From my experience and from other riders that I know, out of Chinese Carbon wheels brands I would have my trust in NEXTIE, BTLOS and Light Cycles.

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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

PHeller said:


> How accurate are the ERDs from BTLOS?


Trying to get this noticed, although with how many people buy complete wheels my effort may be in vain.


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## Leyenda (Jan 25, 2020)

*Nipples?*



BXCc said:


> To each their own so these are just my observations.
> 
> I've been on carbon rims since 2012 and have ridden all sorts of spokes with them. They only differences I can feel while riding is weight and points of engagement. There is no way I could ever tell the difference in a stiffer hub. Rims definitely, but not a modern hub. I prefer carbon rims over aluminum because I can easily feel the difference and I prefer the difference, but that's just me. I prefer quiet hubs and 54 poe is enough for me so I stick with DT hubs. Everything else is about finding the best weight to cost balance. The only downside to CX-Ray, Aerolite, or other light weight bladed spokes is that they tend to bend a bit easier than double butted spokes when trail debris gets caught up in them. I've never broken any, but I have bent a couple which I never really did with DT Comps.


Thanks again. You have infinitely more experience with carbon rims than I do (since my experience is zero). So I have a couple more questions for you: How much do you weigh? and do you ride alu or brass nipples? Have you ever ruined alu nipples? I ride in a very wet environment, sometimes quite muddy as well, and need to decide if I want to play it safe with brass, and take the weight hit, or stick with aluminum...


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Leyenda said:


> Thanks again. You have infinitely more experience with carbon rims than I do (since my experience is zero). So I have a couple more questions for you: How much do you weigh? and do you ride alu or brass nipples? Have you ever ruined alu nipples? I ride in a very wet environment, sometimes quite muddy as well, and need to decide if I want to play it safe with brass, and take the weight hit, or stick with aluminum...


My riding weight is roughly 185 pounds. My current set on my 5010v2 is built up as I mentioned. 350 J-bend center lock 28 hole hubs, CX-Ray spokes, aluminum nipples, and 38mm outer 32mm inner asymmetric rims weighing in at 1475 grams. I've run those for 3 summers now with zero issues. All but one set of carbon rims (5 total) were built with aluminum nipples. Out of the 4 with aluminum, there is one set that I will replace with brass this winter. It's my winter bike and since I live in the northeast, it gets road salt on the rims when on the back of my truck. All the others have been completely corrosion free. I've stuck with DT or Sapim nipples but I'm not sure if that makes a difference. Maybe if their anodizing is higher quality it could provide better corrosion resistance.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

It's so strange to me that people equate POE to quality. 

The drive mechanism on a DT Swiss or a King hub is miles apart, in terms of durability, compared to what you'll find in an I9 hub. 

Similarly, the bearings in a DT Swiss or King hub are infinitely better than those in an I9. I don't really understand why people think that I9 are premier level hubs, but they are not. They are expensive, and come in pretty colors, but that's all that makes them "high end".


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Leyenda said:


> I'm set on buying a pair of BTLos rims laced to DT Swiss Hubs. They would be the shallow / asymmetrical rims, either the WM-i27AS (27mm internal width), or the WM-i30AS (30mm internal width), laced to the new 240exp hubs, 28 hole front and rear with Sapim D-lights up front and Sapim Race in the rear. This build is well under 1500 grams, even with brass nipples, and under $1,000!
> 
> Questions:
> 
> ...


I have no issues with straight pull hubs, but I would definitely get bladed spokes if I was doing the work on them. I usually get cx-ray anyways because they are lighter and stronger.

I have 28mm ID rims on my Sniper and run a 2.25 Ikon in the rear and a 2.35 Forkaster on the front. They work fine. My friend has been running 2.5WT Maxxis tires on 27mm ID rims for years.

I have never had an issue with Chinese rims. No experience with BTLOS, but I weigh 165-175 kitted and regularly jump my Sniper. I have stouter rims on my Enduro bike, but take that to the park. Again no issues.

I have built up sub 1200 gram 29er wheels that supported me on a racing hardtail. Again no issues.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> It's so strange to me that people equate POE to quality.
> 
> The drive mechanism on a DT Swiss or a King hub is miles apart, in terms of durability, compared to what you'll find in an I9 hub.
> 
> Similarly, the bearings in a DT Swiss or King hub are infinitely better than those in an I9. I don't really understand why people think that I9 are premier level hubs, but they are not. They are expensive, and come in pretty colors, but that's all that makes them "high end".


I will not buy a I9 hub at this point. My buddy whom I mentioned above running the 27ID 2.5WT actually had me rebuild a wheel for him. Reason, his front I9 Torch hub had snapped off one of the disc rotor mounts and the other 5 where all cracked. This was not crash related, but could very easily cause a bad one.

Have yet to have an issue with any of the DT hubs I have owned and I have had probably 10 sets at this point. 18-54t ratchets.


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

Le Duke said:


> It's so strange to me that people equate POE to quality.
> 
> The drive mechanism on a DT Swiss or a King hub is miles apart, in terms of durability, compared to what you'll find in an I9 hub.
> 
> Similarly, the bearings in a DT Swiss or King hub are infinitely better than those in an I9. I don't really understand why people think that I9 are premier level hubs, but they are not. They are expensive, and come in pretty colors, but that's all that makes them "high end".


I used to own a Yeti SB6 with Ibis 742 Carbon wheels on i9 Torch hubs. I put almost 3,000 miles on my SB6, before I sold it.
I had my i9 hubs periodically checked by my LBS, which is very honest and thorough and even when I did the last check and tune on the bike before I sold it the i9 torch was in 90% like new condition. My previously owned SB6 had everything from long 40 mile / 6,000 elev XC rides to bike parks in completely dry summer and some wet seasons here in The Bay Area and zero issues with the hub.
And so far I have around 500 miles on both of my Hydra hubs and still like brand new.
But the engagement on Hydras makes a significant difference compared to 54T of DT Swiss.
Every rider I personally know that used to only ride on Chris King or DT Swiss hubs, once tried the Hydra or Onyx never went back.
But each to his experience and opinion.

Cheers

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

iErnest85 said:


> I used to own a Yeti SB6 with Ibis 742 Carbon wheels on i9 Torch hubs. I put almost 3,000 miles on my SB6, before I sold it.
> I had my i9 hubs periodically checked by my LBS, which is very honest and thorough and even when I did the last check and tune on the bike before I sold it the i9 torch was in 90% like new condition. My previously owned SB6 had everything from long 40 mile / 6,000 elev XC rides to bike parks in completely dry summer and some wet seasons here in The Bay Area and zero issues with the hub.
> And so far I have around 500 miles on both of my Hydra hubs and still like brand new.
> But the engagement on Hydras makes a significant difference compared to 54T of DT Swiss.
> ...


I've got a set of 240s with 25,000 OR, VA, NY and CO miles on them. Well, my dad has them now. Seeing all weather gravel use in IL.

I've ridden high and low engagement hubs, and it makes no difference in my climbing speed, regardless of terrain.

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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

I have ridden I9, Onyx, Project 321 and others. Is higher engagement better? Yes. Is it super noticeable? Depends, but I find that the difference between my Hope SS and my 54t DT is minimal, with higher points like Onyx more so.

Two things though. 
I want high engagement on technical stuff and my bikes that are built for that kind of tech are usually on the lighter side of things so Onyx is out.

Second, is I don't care what bike I am riding but if the rotor mounts are breaking off the hub then I will never ride that hub ever. That is rolling the dice with too much at stake, especially with a front hub.

P.S.
I think I9 probably makes great stuff and its fantastic they are made in the USA, but for the price it needs to be bomber. So not on here to knock them and it could have just been a one off, but not risking it.

Also back to Chinese carbon rims.


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

Le Duke said:


> I've got a set of 240s with 25,000 OR, VA, NY and CO miles on them. Well, my dad has them now. Seeing all weather gravel use in IL.
> 
> I've ridden high and low engagement hubs, and it makes no difference in my climbing speed, regardless of terrain.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


WoW! That's awesome! 25,000 miles is very respectful distance for any hub.
Hub engagement not really supposed to make you climb faster. Where high engagement hubs really shines, is on technical climbs by allowing you to adjust your feet position to apply the torque from your legs and clear the challenging obstacles.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

iErnest85 said:


> WoW! That's awesome! 25,000 miles is very respectful distance for any hub.
> Hub engagement not really supposed to make you climb faster. Where high engagement hubs really shines, is on technical climbs by allowing you to adjust your feet position to apply the torque from your legs and clear the challenging obstacles.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


...and the point of adjusting your foot position is to...

...climb faster. Hitting things with your pedals slows you down. I get it.

I'm telling you that it won't make any measurable difference other than your hub engaging faster. You and your bike won't get up the climb any faster.

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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

Le Duke said:


> ...and the point of adjusting your foot position is to...
> 
> ...climb faster. Hitting things with your pedals slows you down. I get it.
> 
> ...


On technical climbs, the better engagement you got the higher your chances to clear it.
If you're trying to campare a fire road or even a super steep fire road climb then there will be no difference on your climbing speed between low or high engagement hubs.
I tried to prove myself multiple times on my local trails your theory, but the fact was that every time I was on using one of my Hydra hub wheelsets, I was able to clear technical sections that I couldn't with my 54T DT 240.
There's a pretty good video from Jeff Kendall-Weed where he compares between Torch and Hydra which both have a better engagement compared to DT Swiss or Chris King. And even there he could tell the difference between the two hubs.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

iErnest85 said:


> On technical climbs, the better engagement you got the higher your chances to clear it.
> If you're trying to campare a fire road or even a super steep fire road climb then there will be no difference on your climbing speed between low or high engagement hubs.
> I tried to prove myself multiple times on my local trails your theory, but the fact was that every time I was on using one of my Hydra hub wheelsets, I was able to clear technical sections that I couldn't with my 54T DT 240.
> There's a pretty good video from Jeff Kendall-Weed where he compares between Torch and Hydra which both have a better engagement compared to DT Swiss or Chris King. And even there he could tell the difference between the two hubs.
> ...


Yeah, I'm not talking about fire roads here. I'm talking about steep sections of mountain bike trails, with rocks and roots on the way up.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

iErnest85 said:


> I tried to prove myself multiple times on my local trails your theory, but the fact was that every time I was on using one of my Hydra hub wheelsets, I was able to clear technical sections that I couldn't with my 54T DT 240.


So out of curiosity, what is the difference in engagement between the two hubs that you were using? And what else was different - i.e. tire model, tire width, internal rim width, tire pressure, etc... I'm going to assume that you are using the same bike and swapping wheels.

I used to preach the virtues of high engagement hubs, but then I started using a 36T DT Swiss 240 hub and even an 18T hub. Turns out in my opinion that engagement only makes a difference when you stop pedaling. Its most noticeable when you are starting from a stand still. It is also noticeable (although less so than after stopping) if you have to ratchet while you are pedaling. I have no doubt for doing trials-ish riding or maybe something along the lines of bunny hopping that engagement could make a difference as well. The flipside to high engagement at least in some cases is that there can be more drag in the hub.

In the end I've ended up with something in the middle - running a 54T star ratchet in my DT Swiss hubs. I don't think twice about it anymore. Its hardly a low engagement hub, but it is way off from the upper end of the high POE wars.

Anyway, I don't have a horse in this race, but I am curious about your observations.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

iErnest85 said:


> I was able to clear technical sections that I couldn't with my 54T DT 240.


ill call horse crap on this.

That is all in your head.

there is very little to no free play with a 54, and it competes with the best out there. even going from a 18 to the 60 makes a minimal change, but I still like my 60


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Outhouse said:


> ill call horse crap on this.
> 
> That is all in your head.
> 
> there is very little to no free play with a 54, and it competes with the best out there. even going from a 18 to the 60 makes a minimal change, but I still like my 60


I don't know about you, but I put out max effort when I have a new bike or significant new part on the bike. Almost no matter what, I'm faster...at first.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Jayem said:


> I don't know about you, but I put out max effort when I have a new bike or significant new part on the bike. Almost no matter what, I'm faster...at first.


Since July all ive done is add things and work on the bike while the bones heal. one mod was adding the DT 350 hubs and the 60t and cant wait to put miles on the bikes. Im like a week out and i can start riding again. I know those new red spoke nipples will definitely add speed to my downhill runs LOL


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

I wrote guide about choosing right geometry option of carbon rims step-by-step

Looking for criticism


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/riding_china_bikes/comments/jn7iku


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

amer_ua said:


> I wrote guide about choosing right geometry option of carbon rims step-by-step
> 
> Looking for criticism
> 
> ...


Good technical info and I like the visual diagrams. I appreciate the mention of Lefty having better spacing--I recently sold my 10 year old Lefty Max Carbon for a great price and miss it--I'm bitter that Cannondale appears to be end-of-lifing the design.

Good mention of asymetric rims--this is important. I have some old Hope Pro 2s and 142 DT Swiss, both converted to Boost, but the asymmetry of rims is more important than replacing these to get better flange spacing

I appreciate the mention of rim internal width but I think you should go further. People need to know why there's a benefit to wider rims, not just matching them to tire size based upon conventional wisdom.

VERY happy you mentioned a reduced hole count with Carbon. Fewer holes make for a lighter, stronger wheel build that is both easier to build and maintain.

Gloss rims do indeed look much nicer, and wash off better than matte, but to each their own. I think you should mention that UD carbon is slightly stronger than weave, 3k being the strongest, but I do have some road wheels with 12k weave, because it's sexy.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> Gloss rims do indeed look much nicer, and wash off better than matte, but to each their own. I think you should mention that UD carbon is slightly stronger than weave, 3k being the strongest, but I do have some road wheels with 12k weave, because it's sexy.


All of the rims you buy in this industry are UD. The finish that you choose from the chinese carbon wheel mfg's is just a surface finish for appearances. There are some exceptions to this, but that type of carbon mfg is mostly limited to aerospace and if you were indeed buying wheels made from the impact resistant weaves being used in that industry (like danny macaskill's santa cruz trials bike) you'd be paying 5-15k for a set of wheels.


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

BTW, asked seller\manufacturer from Ali about material

It not just the finish line in their case, it`s the whole type of carbon 

i will get more details and update article


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

nm error


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

asked local reputable mech, that also repairs carbon rims

hi saw both cases

UD rim with one 3k\12k layer finish
rim fully made from 3k\12k sheet


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## drdre (Dec 15, 2005)

anybody tried their fat bike rims?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

The average bike spoke is made out of steel, one of the few parts on an expensive bike that still is. Despite them being stiff, all a bicycle spike does is pull the rim inward, it has no support outward. I could feel this last weekend on 30mph descents with big tires, as the rims flexed and the spokes pinged back into their sockets. Enter Berd spokes. They are made of floppy nylon and feel like cheap Walmart shoelaces. You thread them through the hubs and then hold them in place with a tiny nylon cross-plug-can this be what I spent all this money on? Well, the actual wheel weights are coming in spot on from the estimates. For these massive 30.5 mm internal rims, I'll have a finished wheel weight of 1270g. Not easy to build these up but worth it!


























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## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

Anyone know of any black friday deals happening for the chinese wheelsets?


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

Farsports (WheelsFar https://www.wheelsfar.com/) is doing 10% off for 11/11 (holiday in China).


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

I've heard that Light Bicycle will be doing a Black Friday sale as well.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Carbonfan 30.5 mm internal rims built with Berd spokes, 24h/28h front/rear. They took a lot of work to build but the firmness in corners and acceleration is palpable. Racing them in a tag-team 60 miler this weekend. 1270g is unreal.

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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

chomxxo said:


> Carbonfan 30.5 mm internal rims built with Berd spokes, 24h/28h front/rear.


I haven't read much about Berd. How is the durability when it comes to rock getting flicked up into the spokes? Do they fray when scraped like that?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

rstark18 said:


> I haven't read much about Berd. How is the durability when it comes to rock getting flicked up into the spokes? Do they fray when scraped like that?


We'll have to see, I'll keep you posted. Like carbon fiber, Berd spokes feel like they would be weaker than steel under a serrated edge. They feel like nylon, but they are reportedly made of kevlar. For road, gravel, and XC, I think Berd spokes are a fantastic idea. I wouldn't see much value for them in a stouter bike, but especially with short travel bikes, they provide lighter weight and vibration dampening.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> We'll have to see, I'll keep you posted. Like carbon fiber, Berd spokes feel like they would be weaker than steel under a serrated edge. They feel like nylon, but they are reportedly made of kevlar. For road, gravel, and XC, I think Berd spokes are a fantastic idea. I wouldn't see much value for them in a stouter bike, but especially with short travel bikes, they provide lighter weight and vibration dampening.


Huh? No one has ever said they are made of Kevlar. They look nothing like Kevlar, either.

They are UHMWPE.

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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Huh? No one has ever said they are made of Kevlar. They look nothing like Kevlar, either.
> 
> They are UHMWPE.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Correct. A bit forest for the trees as per usual because my point was that UHMWPE feels like nylon in hand but is has a high (higher) strength to weight ratio than Kevlar.

A lot of reviews focus on feel (it felt faster) but how it performs and its actual strength are different in reality.

http://www.caminodenim.com/kevlar-vs-uhmwpe-dyneema/

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## wfl3 (Dec 30, 2003)

Any recommendations on which vendors do a better wheel build if you send in your own hubs? Just looking to get my old xmc 1200s re-rimmed after busting a rim (my fault) and wondering if some other options might be better than $350 a wheel from DT to fix these. The price isn't that bad, but might be some better rims out there than the XRC 1200 25mm rims from DT.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Are you asking which Chinese vendor will lace up your old rim? I don't think they do that, do they?

If you are just asking what company makes decent rims to re-lace to your hubs, most mentioned on this thread are fine. I have had no issues with Carbonfan or Farsports.

If you are saying DT will give you a new rim and lace it up for you for $350, that seems like a great deal to me.

I literally dented a XM 1501 rim on Sunday and talked to DT today and it was $105 to get a rim shipped to me and it would have been around $240 plus cost of shipping to them for them to rebuild it.

Maybe I didn't understand your question.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Just for reference

• Carbonfan 360g 30.5 rims: $406 including shipping

• Berd spokes with build kit
$489 including shipping

• Sold my Valors for $250
Kept DT Swiss 240 / Notubes Neo hubs

Total cost (besides a week of labor): $650

OR you could choose

Berd custom build (ship them your rims and hubs):
$1,150.00

This will give you a stronger, lighter build than the DT Swiss XRC 1000s.
https://berdspokes.com


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

They look interesting and neat and I am one for trying new stuff, but even by weight weenie standards its a little overpriced at roughly $300 for not even 100g in savings so $3 per gram.

Not trying to poop on them, but if I am trying to a make a budget build with cheap Chinese carbon rims then I don't know why I would spend an extra $300 over Cx-ray when I could put that towards an even better hub or rim.

Again super cool idea, but interesting they pop up on this thread.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I agree with you on cost not being the object with me, but value. 

If you take a build that cost me less than $1000 and put it against your DT Swiss that cost 2.5 times that and was 200g heavier despite being 5mm narrower, well I’d consider that cheap.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Maybe I missed something.

What I am saying is they don’t seem like a value unless there is drastic performance gains.

You sold your valor wheels and kept your hubs which is what kept cost down. If all I have to buy are rims and spokes then I again come out $300 cheaper because that is the cost difference between Cx-rays and the Berds.

And again maybe I am reading the post wrong, but if I send them my rims and hubs they will build a wheelset for $1150. That is often times $200 more than a fully built set of 240 Chinese carbon wheels with cx-rays and I had to provide the hubs and rims for the Berd build so they will come out to about $2k if I am going with 240’s and Chinese carbon rims.

Am I reading this wrong?


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## wfl3 (Dec 30, 2003)

That $1150 includes buying rims and having Berd lace them to your own hubs I'm pretty sure. The cost to have Berd build your rims/hubs (28h) looks like $540 ($565 if you want them black). Add shipping costs to Berd.

Buying rims and having Berd lace them up to my hubs will be $300-$400 more than having DT rebuild them. I'm estimating $1000-$1100 total. Probably a really good build.

LB will build my hubs with their XC925 rims and sapim d-lights for around $525. Add in some shipping costs and say $600 there. Probably a lighter build than the DT rims, but not sure if a better build. 

I wish I had more long term info on the Berd builds, but seriously that route. Need to see if I could just have the rims direct shipped to them once I figure out which rims to go with - want at least 25mm internal, but not sure if I need as big as 30mm.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

So LB will sell you rims and build them to your hubs for $525? 
That is cheaper than just their rims or they will build your hubs to their rims for the cost of rims and $525. 
If that is thats case and it sounds like everybody is charging $500 odd dollars to lace up some rims I need to just start building people's wheels for them.


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## wfl3 (Dec 30, 2003)

That's what they said. Rims were discounted to $466

"If you send the hubs to us we can build the wheel for you, you also need to order the spokes. The Sapim D-Light spokes cost USD1.1/pcs."


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

That sounds like a nice little deal then


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Just so we're clear: you'd be sending your hubs to Xiamen, China? 

Or to Abbotsford, BC?


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## wfl3 (Dec 30, 2003)

I was using the chat on the NA site, but didn't inquire further because I'm either going with a Berd build or just sending them back to DT for a rebuild.


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

Anyone here had a chance to test any of the BTLOS new Shallow wheels/rims ?

I’m really concerning to order the 30mm IW for Transition Spur that I got on order (ETA Jan-Feb)


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

- BTLOS Black Friday -









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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hi, thinking about getting a BTLOS WM-i30as premium AM (approx 1580gr.) for a more lightweight setup, compared to the actual 2.120gr. dt swiss M1900.
I'm 180lb (80kg), and wheels will be my quick setup for xc/trail 

Some questions:
- Finish: coating free cost much more than matte finish. If coating free will skip the paint process, how can it be more expensive ? 

- Vertical Compliance: I choose the new AS with only 18mm rim height for comfort/vertical compliance. Should Jbend be better than straightpulls, or the vertical compliance is only in the rim itself and riding feel is the same for both? I don't race, so i simply want a more lively and light(quicker) wheelset, but not too harsh and uncomfortable. 28 spokes should be ok instead of 32?

- Spokes: Sapim D.light vs CX ray? what's really different?

- Mouting tires: are these rims good as dtswiss rims about how easy to mount tires by hand? Dt swiss are top for me regarding mounting tires. Other rims were difficult to mount and seat tires only at very high pressures and only with soapy water.

Ah, hubs will be dt swiss 350 with 36T(maybe more reliable than 54t) and centerlock to reuse my actual rotors

What's your opinions/experience with these btlos? Thanks..


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

zambo78 said:


> Hi, thinking about getting a BTLOS WM-i30as premium AM (approx 1580gr.) for a more lightweight setup, compared to the actual 2.120gr. dt swiss M1900.
> I'm 180lb (80kg), and wheels will be my quick setup for xc/trail
> 
> Some questions:
> ...


I've just placed last night an order for my next BTLOS shallow 30mm IW wheel-set.

Personally I don't have any experience with BTLOS wheels yet. That will be my first one. But I do know very well 3 MTB riders that use their wheels and only heard positive things from them.

From Chines Carbon Wheels makers I currently own 2 wheelsets by NEXTIE. One is NXT29XM40 Premium w/ i9 Hydra - 34mm IW / 40mm EW / 32mm Hight. The other one is NXT29UL34 Ultralight version w/ DT 240 54T - 25mm IW / 30mm EW / 22mm Hight.
I've own them for about 2 years and so far they've been great with absolutely zero issues. Also the entire purchase experience with NEXTIE was great.

So according what BTLOS states on their website about Coating Free Technology:
This is BTLOS' most advanced manufacturing process. Due to high-quality carbon fiber and specially formulated epoxy (resin) along with state-of-the-art molding and manufacturing techniques, BTLOS rims come out of the mold without blemishes or defects in their finish eliminating the need for painting and/or clear coating and also saving weight.
So I'm assuming that's why they charged me $30 extra for the Coating Free option.

Sapim D-light (Butted) are slightly heavier at 4.8g per spoke compared to Sapim CX-Ray (Bladed) at 4.4g. And CX-Ray considered from light to heavy duty application (XC / AM / DH) and D-Light for slightly lighter (XC / AM).

I have a 3rd wheelset which is Crank Brothers Synthesis E11 with 18mm Rim Hight and never had any issues to mount tires on it with just a floor pumpm.

Regarding the Vertical Compliance on J-Bend vs. Straight Pull, unfortunately I don't have an answer.

Hope this helps...

Happy Riding!


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

Some known Black Friday sales:

BTLOS: 80USD off wheelsets and rims (active now)
Light Bicycle: 10% off all "global" wheelsets (not yet active)

I just ordered a BTLOS gravel wheelset (WGX30) for my gravel bike. Was super satisfied with my WM-i29a wheelset ordered earlier this year. Reasonable shipping costs too with $50 to USA via FedEx (5-8 days).

Edit: They emailed me stating the $50 FedEx shipping cost was incorrectly specified on the site. The cheapest shipping is now $78 via EMS. I was asked to pay the difference but they offered $10 discount for the misunderstanding (still waiting on a reply on whether this can be used for my current order or only future orders).


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

I just ordered a set of M-i29A rims from BTLOS with the Black Friday discount and got the same message about the shipping price error. Still hoping to end up a pair of rims for around $300.

Can anyone speak to the accuracy of the ERD'S posted on their site? Are good enough for determining spoke lengths?

Thanks,
Ted

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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

Order with Blackfriday discount my light/trail setup for 2.4 tires.

i30AS
29er 30mm inner width All mountain Enduro shallow carbon wheels
- Series: Premium
- Version: AM
- Finish: Matte
- Weave: UD
- Hub Type: DT SWISS 350
- Spoke Count: 28H/28H
- Ratchet: Upgrade 36T
- Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
- Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
- Freehub: Shimano Microspline
- Brake Interface: Center Lock ( Disc )
- Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
- Spoke System: Straight pull
- Nipple: Aluminium Black
- Decal colors: Black

I choose the matte version, so carbon will have a little bit of coating spray that will maybe protect 


Wheelset weight should be 1484gr.
Hope that everything will be fine.
350hubs as the wheelset seems already very light and it seems that i dont need shaving extra 80gr for so big money difference.

After all i've choose the 36T for reliability, and also from some videos the 54T seems really really loud...maybe too much?

The new wheelset with new cassette and new rotors, will be approx. 860gr. lighter than my actual setup(same tires). Apart the need of another wheelset, i hope to see also some performance improvements in pedaling days for the weight difference in the rotating mass...


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

zambo78 said:


> Order with Blackfriday discount my light/trail setup for 2.4 tires.
> 
> i30AS
> 29er 30mm inner width All mountain Enduro shallow carbon wheels
> ...


Should be nice wheels. I ordered my gravel wheels from them with 350 hubs with the 54t ratchet and it was pretty loud. Switched it to the 36t and it is much quieter. I think you'll be ok with your choice.


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

Placed an order with BTLOS on 11/20:

WM-i30AS :
- Series: Premium
- Version: AM
- Finish: Coating Free
- Weave: UD
- Hub Type: i9 Hydra (Black)
- Spoke Count: 32H/32H
- Ratchet: Default
- Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
- Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
- Freehub: SRAM XD
- Brake Interface: Centerlock
- Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
- Spoke System: J-bend
- Nipple: Brass Black
- Decal colors: Black

Amy from BTLOS contacted me saying that the i9 Hydra with Centerlock are out of stock with No ETA. And they only have the Red, Orange and Blue color hubs in stock. The black ones should arrive in December. So I opted for the 6 Bolt, but will be waiting for them to arrive in black color in December.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

I emailed Amy on 11/5 about pricing and availability of a specific wheel build, very similar to the about WMi30-AS. She finally responded this morning. Although I would have preferred the shallow profile of the BTLOS, I went with Light Bicycle because they responded to my emails.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

Well I blew out my BTLOS i29a trail/AM rim today. I'm not sure what I hit, I'm 160lbs and had a WTB trailboss tire with about 23lbs, was rolling down a nice moderate trail section with little (3' and under) jumps and drops, plenty of rocks, roots and such. I wasn't aware of smashing anything but I heard a pretty loud pop and deflating sound. I figured I popped my tire and didn't have much stans in it. We started walking out and passed some other riders who offered me a tube so I pulled off my wheel and then notice, BLAM, the carbon was ripped to pieces.

I sent some pictures to BTLOS to see if they can help with a crash warranty or whatever. I have been super happy with these but... I'm down and out for now.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

That's a big crack. Fibers sticking out quite a bit, like if it was missing some resin in there. Who knows, I'm no expert in carbon fiber technology.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

More pictures of my recently broken BTLOS rear wheel. So far, Amy has been quick to respond and stated they will help me with this break.


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

markcm said:


> More pictures of my recently broken BTLOS rear wheel. So far, Amy has been quick to respond and stated they will help me with this break.
> 
> View attachment 1909279
> View attachment 1909280
> View attachment 1909281


What model of BTLOS rims are those?

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

What tension were they built up to? Weird dimple on the opposite side of the impact point.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

iErnest85 said:


> What model of BTLOS rims are those?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i29a trail/AM


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> What tension were they built up to? Weird dimple on the opposite side of the impact point.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im not exactly sure how the spokes were tensioned, they did come with a build spec that stated weight, roundness and the spokes didn't make any noise like popping or such. They seemed good until pop! Granted these are pretty light weight build, I was on a down-sloped trail with lots of rock and root and moving pretty good when it blew although there was not a definitive point where I know I cased on anything.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

I think these pictures show what happens when you have a bit too little tire pressure for what you are riding. That's my 2 cents on experience with both carbon and alloy wheels (and being a heavy guy who has learned to be rigorous about checking tire pressure). While there may be a weak spot or slight defect in the carbon on this particular rim, my experience is that if you get any contact between a carbon rim and some rock, you are not going to like the result. By contrast, I've had some moderate hits with alloy that resulted in almost no rim damage. I think when you are blowing through rock garden like lines, you can easily do this sort of damage if you are just a couple PSI low and take a hit the wrong way.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

backinmysaddle said:


> I think these pictures show what happens when you have a bit too little tire pressure for what you are riding. That's my 2 cents on experience with both carbon and alloy wheels (and being a heavy guy who has learned to be rigorous about checking tire pressure). While there may be a weak spot or slight defect in the carbon on this particular rim, my experience is that if you get any contact between a carbon rim and some rock, you are not going to like the result. By contrast, I've had some moderate hits with alloy that resulted in almost no rim damage. I think when you are blowing through rock garden like lines, you can easily do this sort of damage if you are just a couple PSI low and take a hit the wrong way.


Carbon wheels are definitely a learning curve for me, I am fairly light at about 165 with my gear on. I probably ride a bit more aggressively than I think I do which could be a contributor. These were also pretty lightweight build rims. I gave all my spec's and riding style plus a youtube link to BTLOS before they approved this rim but... I think it was a bit too lightweight.

They are sending me a "crash replacement", I'm not sure if it will be just a hoop or a full wheel but it will be slightly beefier build with more material on the beadline.

If anyone is interested in seeing the trail where this rim let go on me, it was cheech and chong's wild ride on Galbraith. The rim let go right at 0:25  *into this video*. Note, this is a random video I found on youtube that someone posted although it is recent and shows the terrain well. This trail is typical of the type of riding on do with these wheels. Amy at BTLOS also said that I could have clipped a rock prior and the rim didn't let go until later when I happened to be on this trail.


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## siejak12 (Mar 18, 2019)

BTLOS i30as premium rim after 3 rides, factory fault? I hope to replace the EV for free.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

siejak12 said:


> BTLOS i30as premium rim after 3 rides, factory fault? I hope to replace the EV for free.
> 
> View attachment 1919915


What happened there, its hard for me to tell?


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## siejak12 (Mar 18, 2019)

darrylruddock said:


> What happened there, its hard for me to tell?


no, I know, I came back from driving I saw that the wheel is beating and the crack in the nipple hole ...


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I like the shallow profile of the BTLOS rims a lot but doesn't look like they reinforce the spoke bed enough to handle the extra vertical flex. I'm not an engineer but I guess there is a reason why crank brothers rims of similar profile are heavier.


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

Recently received my BTLOS WM-i30AS.
Wheels came slightly heavier (1,605g) than the claimed was on BTLOS website (1531.6 +/-25g).
I really like how the Coating Free option made the wheel look like.
Also added the Rimpact https://www.rimpactmtb.com/ Rim Protector right away.

































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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

rusty904 said:


> I like the shallow profile of the BTLOS rims a lot but doesn't look like they reinforce the spoke bed enough to handle the extra vertical flex. I'm not an engineer but I guess there is a reason why crank brothers rims of similar profile are heavier.


I have a pair of Crank Brothers Synthesis E11 with i9 Hydra hub on my SB130 and I just started riding on BTLOS WM-i30AS on my new Spur. So far I only did 3 rides (70 miles / 8,000 elev) on the Spur with the new wheels.
Soon once my SB130 will be back from the shop I'll be able to do more comparison rides with the two wheels.

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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

XMcarbonspeed 2021version AS932C T800 rims 28H with reinforced spokes holes, 320g/piece


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

Carbon Speed Bikes said:


> XMcarbonspeed 2021version AS932C T800 rims 28H with reinforced spokes holes, 320g/piece


Looks just like Santa Cruz Reserves

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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

UPDATE ON MY BROKEN BTLOS RIM:

I have received a replacement rim from BTLOS. This replacement added about 30g of material to hopefully beef up the bead section. The original rim was 410g and the replacement is 442g. The replacement cost me $90 and took about 2.5 months to get...Oh, yah, then I had to pay $50 to have it rebuilt so that puts me at $140 and 2.5 months. I'm not really picky but... that's a long time and kind of a lot of money considering my rim exploded under only a few months of rather conservative use. When asked "was it worth it to buy BTLOS?" I'm not upset but this hasn't been a very good experience.

I had my buddy rebuild it, he imports his own line of carbon wheels that he spec'd specifically for the pacific northwest; he's an expert wheel builder and knows rim design very well. He said this rim I have is essentially a cross country spec based on the shape and weight. I was a bit bummed to here that when I specifically worked with Amy at BTLOS to get a trail/All-mountain spec.

Other things I learned as I'm a wheel rookie; I chose flat spokes for shits and giggles. After having these for awhile, I now don't think flat spokes are a very good idea for trail/all-mountain abuse. I also nearly had an incident when the spokes tangled with my bike rack.

My wheels are back together now, I do like riding on this wheelset but I suspect I will break this one too and just have my buddy rebuild it with one of his rims.



markcm said:


> Well I blew out my BTLOS i29a trail/AM rim today. I'm not sure what I hit, I'm 160lbs and had a WTB trailboss tire with about 23lbs, was rolling down a nice moderate trail section with little (3' and under) jumps and drops, plenty of rocks, roots and such. I wasn't aware of smashing anything but I heard a pretty loud pop and deflating sound. I figured I popped my tire and didn't have much stans in it. We started walking out and passed some other riders who offered me a tube so I pulled off my wheel and then notice, BLAM, the carbon was ripped to pieces.
> 
> I sent some pictures to BTLOS to see if they can help with a crash warranty or whatever. I have been super happy with these but... I'm down and out for now.
> 
> View attachment 1909059


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## LacKona (Apr 23, 2015)

Hello Everybody,

I am about to place an order for my first pair of carbon wheels, and I thought I would ask around about your opinions as well before ordering since reading this forum was immensely useful so far.

I have done my research and went through the last 70-80 pages of this thread, so I narrowed my choices done to four different companies, out of which two came back with some useful feedback. One is Btlos, the other is EIE Carbon.

Briefly about my application: I am 197cm (6ft6) and around 95kg (210 lbs) fully kitted. I ride an Orbea Occam M10 with Fox 36 and 2.-2.5" tyres. I live around Stockholm, Sweden where there are not many mountains, but instead, we have an insane amount of rocks and roots. I also go away a few times a year to the mountains to send it at proper downhills. My main riding is mostly technical trails with distances anything between 25 and 110km (15-70miles). Every now and then I go for a cheeky park day with big drops (ca. 10ft) and jumps.

I would like to have a reasonably lightweight set of wheels around 1600-1625g that can take some punishment.

Btlos suggested their new M-i30A with Enduro layup, which is apparently similar to the current one but 2mm shallower, which makes it 26mm high. I assume they recommend their premium layup, but no confirmation about that yet.

EIE Carbon recommended their A29C30D18 rims with AM layup, and 25g added reinforcement per wheel. They also said that they would recommend the T700 layup due to the better vertical stiffness.

Both wheels would be around my weight requirements.

Carbonfan kept going on about selling me a pair of 480g DH rims, which is not what I need for 6-7 hour trips so I dropped them. They would have been more pricey anyway...

The rest of the wheel specification:


> Hub Type: DT SWISS 350
> Spoke Count: 28H/28H
> Ratchet: Upgrade 36T
> Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
> ...


I quite like EIE Carbon's personalized offering, but I am a bit skeptical about this new low-profile rim type. Geometry-wise I personally prefer the Btlos rim, but it could be just in my mind.

What do people think? Does anybody have experience with both types perhaps? Which layup would work better? Any ground for EIE's claim about the T700 being better for me? Any other feedback about these wheels is also much appreciated!

Thanks for reading and for your replies in advance!


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## iErnest85 (Oct 8, 2017)

LacKona said:


> Hello Everybody,
> 
> I am about to place an order for my first pair of carbon wheels, and I thought I would ask around about your opinions as well before ordering since reading this forum was immensely useful so far.
> 
> ...


A few of my personal suggestions:

Go with the more shallow rims like the

EIE A29C30D18









Or BTLOS WM-i30AS









For an aggressive trail bike like the Occam, for sure I would go with 32 hole spoke version, especially how you described how you do like to take your bike thru some rougher stuff.
And regarding the Brass or Aluminum it depends if your wheels will ever see water. If you do ride in a rain, thru puddles or streams then go with Brass.

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## LacKona (Apr 23, 2015)

Thanks for your advice.

I ended up ordering the low-profile EIE rims, albeit with 28 spokes. I quite fancy the straight-pull setup and I think they will be good enough for me.

Also got the brass nipples since I ride a lot in muddy/wet conditions. I always knew that that's the right choice. I just need some confirmation sometimes... I read too many "I have never had any problems with alu nipples" comments during my research and became hesitant, even though I had plenty of problems with them before.

Now, I just need to wait 5 more weeks 



iErnest85 said:


> A few of my personal suggestions:
> 
> Go with the more shallow rims like the
> 
> ...


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## siejak12 (Mar 18, 2019)

siejak12 said:


> BTLOS i30as premium rim after 3 rides, factory fault? I hope to replace the EV for free.


They sent me a new rim at no extra cost.


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Has anyone used ICAN wheels / rims for MTB? Several models available here's the trail model, and a discount for them


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

LacKona said:


> Thanks for your advice.
> 
> I ended up ordering the low-profile EIE rims, albeit with 28 spokes. I quite fancy the straight-pull setup and I think they will be good enough for me.
> 
> ...


Usually the issue isn't alloy nipples. Usually it's who built them that's the issue.

Spokes need to be carefully sized when you use alloy. You need the spoke to penetrate all the way through to the back of the head - max nipple and spoke overlap. Too short and they are prone to cracking off right right where the shank meets the head.

Corrosion can be an issue, especially in carbon rims. However, not all nipples are created equally. Some have a much better ano job and special coatings, which go a long way to protecting against corrosion. Pick quality nipples, build them with a stainless steel nipple and some good grease sitting between nipple and washer, and cut your spokes long enough so you get full strength from your nipple, and you are a lot less likely to have issues.


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

Which of these vendors will do a configuration with Onyx Vesper hub?


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Check Wayne out here:









speedgearbike.com


Click to view Flickr Wheel Photo Gallery



www.speedgearbike.com





Didn’t go Vesper cause I think there are issues with them but built me up a set of Nexties with Onyx


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## Gubbtrailrider (12 mo ago)

Hi,

I am living in Uppsala Sweden and looking at a pari of rims from EIE, I also ride in similar conditions to you. What is your experience of the wheel qualiity, shipping, taxes (did you take the pre-paid taxes and if so did you get an invoice from Tullverket?) 
Is there anything you might have ordered differently?

//Gubbtrailrider

QUOTE="LacKona, post: 15256667, member: 789226"]
Thanks for your advice.

I ended up ordering the low-profile EIE rims, albeit with 28 spokes. I quite fancy the straight-pull setup and I think they will be good enough for me.

Also got the brass nipples since I ride a lot in muddy/wet conditions. I always knew that that's the right choice. I just need some confirmation sometimes... I read too many "I have never had any problems with alu nipples" comments during my research and became hesitant, even though I had plenty of problems with them before.

Now, I just need to wait 5 more weeks 
[/QUOTE]


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm thinking about a new set of wheels with roughly 30mm ID and intended use for a trail bike. The one part I have no idea about is compliance.
Newer types of rims are said to be more compliant, just as Berd spokes for example and lower spoke count.
Are 28 spokes a good compromise for carbon wheels nowadays or are people still using 32 like the past decades?
To me it always seemed as system wheel builders were going for 28 while custom builders quite often stick to 32...


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

For a lot of riders, carbon rims with 28 spokes is fine. As always with things like this though, the answer is "it depends". A heavier rider and/or someone that tends to be abusive to wheels will have some extra insurance with 32H rims. Honestly though, I think 32H rims are largely a carry over from when aluminum rims were most common. A light aluminum rim fairs better with more spokes. Modern carbon rims are so stiff and strong that 28H is more than adequate that vast majority of the time (assuming the wheel is built well). Like you mentioned, most system wheels are lower spoke count which reflects accounting for the structure of the rim.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanks, that’s what I thought. I’m heavy, but not abusive.
The idea about compliance can even be extended to something like homogenous stiffness. 
My frame is said to be stiff, but not too stiff. I’m still running 36 forks, not 38s.
Luxury times where you don’t have to aim for the toughest, stiffest whatever and still get something that works (very well).

Would be lovely to try a wheelset first. But the guessing game at least holds a nice surprise at the end 

Still debating between some of the rim profiles. I already have two sets of rims here, 30mm ID asymmetric, but I’m still not perfectly happy. Elite Wheels and Carbon Beam, both very well made though.


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

My wheelset from EIE just arrived.

1180g for the set

DT240s, 54t, super-cx spokes, 30mm inner width (340g rims), asymmetric


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

Radical_53 said:


> Thanks, that’s what I thought. I’m heavy, but not abusive.
> The idea about compliance can even be extended to something like homogenous stiffness.
> My frame is said to be stiff, but not too stiff. I’m still running 36 forks, not 38s.
> Luxury times where you don’t have to aim for the toughest, stiffest whatever and still get something that works (very well).
> ...


I'm running these from BTLOS on my trail bike. Love them. 28H, CX Ray spokes. It is tough to quantify compliance, but I certainly don't ever think they feel harsh.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Some great options out there. I don’t see the big difference in the rim profile from EIE and BTLOS at first glance, but that’s the type I’d like to try.
28h, light spokes, i9 hubs. Amazing stuff really!


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## Haroldlikesbikes (Jan 3, 2006)

All things considered, LightCarbon, EIE, or BTLOS, who would you pick for a new gravel wheelset (28h/32h). They all three have a profile I like. Seem to be in the same price range, with LightCarbon being the cheapest (120/rim) and BTLOS/EIE being in the $160-180 range per rim.


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## waqvx3 (Oct 28, 2021)

yes, our Lightcarbon can supply the carbon fiber EMTB frame fit for bafang motor and shimano motor.
frame fir for bafang motor: EMTB frame fit for Bafang motor and battery
frame fit for Shimano motor: LCES801 & LCES879
contact me:[email protected]


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## Haroldlikesbikes (Jan 3, 2006)

Haroldlikesbikes said:


> All things considered, LightCarbon, EIE, or BTLOS, who would you pick for a new gravel wheelset (28h/32h). They all three have a profile I like. Seem to be in the same price range, with LightCarbon being the cheapest (120/rim) and BTLOS/EIE being in the $160-180 range per rim.


Ordered from BTLOS. The shop i build wheels for was interested in trying a few options as well, so we got a wholesale account going. BTLOS seemed to have the most info, so perhaps the least risk in trying. 

I've got 30i, 34i MTB rims coming and I have a 22ix35mm gravel rimset coming for my gravel bike.

I think the 30i will get Berd spokes, so should make for a light and interesting build.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

+1 on BTLOS/BERD. It's a great combo. I have a couple sets like that. So far so good.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

I'll be interested to hear how your order turn around time is. I placed a wheelset order several weeks ago and it has been unusually quiet. I know things are shut down there due to Covid, so who knows for sure what state things are in.


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## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

anyone using elite wheels?


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## woodzyzlucky (Dec 15, 2021)

Zachua said:


> Is there a list anywhere of all the reputable chinese carbon wheel sellers? I see btlos is popular here, and I know farsports and light bicycle are popular as well, but seems like there are a solid handful or more companies I just can't remember all their names.


Elitewheels not famous for its MTB wheel,but I bought their Pro 36 24mm rim height for my Santa Cruz Highball 29 instead of LB am930 same inner and outer width but 1mm smaller in height.they both have same raw carbon look,total cost less 800bucks include shipping near 500buck saving compare to LB option.pair with Schwalbe Rocket Rons 2.25 , They have the perfect option for me, a wide rim with a 30mm inner that allows the wheels to have great traction,I do enjoy single-track trails with lots of technical bits like rock gardens and descents sprinkled with the odd jump. very pleased with the quality/carbon finish.


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm looking at "superlight" 27.5 rims currently. 

Has anyone seen any rims worth considering recently?

These have caught my eye:

T800 Super Light Weight 280g,29er Mtb Xc Carbon Rim,tubeless Ready,29inch Mtb Mountain Bike Rim For Xc,27mm/30mm/33mm/35mm Width - Bicycle Rims - AliExpress


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

BTLOS has 25mm ID 27.5” rims for not much more that and are even lighter and probably better/stronger/etc. I built a set with those that came out at 1070g for the pair.


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## Carbon Speed Bikes (Dec 15, 2016)

Good deal on these 2 years warranty rims: Big brand OEM 29er rims on sale!!!


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