# Benefits of standalone GPS vs. iPhone for tracking rides?



## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

I'm thinking about getting a Garmin 500 or something along those lines.

I realize that they are more accurate, the battery lasts longer than your phone would, and heart rate... but is there any other benefit? I'm torn on whether the hassle of having to keep another electronic device charged and not being able to upload my rides automatically (e.g. from my phone) will outweigh the benefits or not. And having to pay $60/year (albeit not a huge amount) to Strava to be able to see heart rate info.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

my garmin gets a number of rides out of a charge before I have to worry about it. my phone gets a day, at best. HUGE boost in battery life.

the garmin is built to be mounted on the handlebars. this gives it optimal reception. putting your phone there for better reception exposes it to damage. partly because it's larger, but also forces you to buy a mount/case for it to protect it. the garmin can stand up to water and most drops without any additional protection.

with the garmin, you are not roped into any particular analysis/software universe. it is supposed to work best/most seamlessly with garmin products, but I don't think garmin's software is really "best" at anything. 

if you get an edge 510/810/1000, you can get automatic wireless uploading (to garmin connect) through your phone. if that's important to you. I have a forerunner 310xt that does wireless uploading using the ANT+ wireless protocol, but it has no option for wired uploading wherever I please. if I want to use my data anywhere except garmin connect, I have to export a .tcx or .gpx file from garmin connect after uploading. It's an extra step I don't enjoy, but garmin doesn't do that kind of wireless upload on much anymore because people find it a headache.

there are other more subtle benefits outside of accuracy. the edge 500 was never really great for mountain biking, either. at times, it sucked (and for some, it still does). The Edge 305 was pretty awesome. the 510 is better than the 500, I think is the general consensus.


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

I carry both a phone for emergency and have a 310XT on my handlebars. There are a littany of things the Garmin can track but HR is a feature I almost cant do without. The 310xt can also breadcrumb track a preloaded course which you can load to it via GC. Like Natehawk said the battery life is way better on the Garmin. I charge mine about every 5 rides and it only takes about an hour.
Lastly, it also wirelessly uploads to Strava via a browser but I think you need some kind of plug-in for it to work.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

NateHawk said:


> my garmin gets a number of rides out of a charge before I have to worry about it. my phone gets a day, at best. HUGE boost in battery life.
> 
> the garmin is built to be mounted on the handlebars. this gives it optimal reception. putting your phone there for better reception exposes it to damage. partly because it's larger, but also forces you to buy a mount/case for it to protect it. the garmin can stand up to water and most drops without any additional protection.
> 
> ...


So I can upload my ride through my phone? I'm guessing it goes from the garmin to the phone via bluetooth and then the phone to strava with either your wireless data or Wifi if you're connected?


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

My phone GPS is pretty darn accurate. I have tested it with Strava against 3 different vehicles odometers, 2 different Garmin GPS units, and a bike computer. The only one that showed a significant difference was the cheap bike computer and even then it was not a whole lot. I can also switch my phone to airplane mode and still use it. This allows me to get all day (6-8 hour rides) with still using less than half the battery. 

That being said, not all phone GPS's are created equal. 

I still sometimes think I want a separate unit but the one thing I can't get around is not being able to see instant results of the ride. It is fun conversation over post ride beers.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

That's kind of my thoughts too... so you just airplane mode it then normal-mode it before "completing" the ride in Strava?

I've ridden the same loop many times and Strava is always within 10-20 ft of elevation gain and the mileage is dead on. Also lines up to my cyclometer.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

Alias530 said:


> ... having to keep another electronic device charged and not being able to upload my rides automatically (e.g. from my phone) will outweigh the benefits or not. And having to pay $60/year (albeit not a huge amount) to Strava to be able to see heart rate info.


Sure is tough plugging in a GPS.
You can connect Garmin units to an Android phone via an OTG cable and upload to any site.
What heart rate information does Strava provide that the free Garmin Connect doesn't?


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Wherewolf said:


> Sure is tough plugging in a GPS.
> You can connect Garmin units to an Android phone via an OTG cable and upload to any site.
> What heart rate information does Strava provide that the free Garmin Connect doesn't?


It isn't tough, it's just one extra thing to worry about keeping charged. Phone, ipod, wireless mouse, etc.

I have zero experience with Garmin Connect so I have no idea... I've just been using Strava since day 1 so I would want it to link to that so my totals, records, etc continue to accumulate.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

It will not upload to strava from the gps through the phone. Only garmin connect. There are sync websites you can use if you want. Folks have talked about them in this forum before


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

NateHawk said:


> It will not upload to strava from the gps through the phone. Only garmin connect. There are sync websites you can use if you want. Folks have talked about them in this forum before


I have no idea what garmin connect is... is it equivalent to strava? I thought it was an upload portal/service based on the way the first response phrased it.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Alias530 said:


> That's kind of my thoughts too... so you just airplane mode it then normal-mode it before "completing" the ride in Strava?
> 
> I've ridden the same loop many times and Strava is always within 10-20 ft of elevation gain and the mileage is dead on. Also lines up to my cyclometer.


Not all phones successfully run Strava in AP mode.

I need to start mine first then I can switch to AP mode and it will run fine. 
I have a Droid Bionic.

I can end it on or off AP mode but need to obviously take it off to upload it.


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## drwx (Jun 4, 2011)

One of the big negatives of using something besides your phone is that you lose any sort of live tracking. I very frequently ride alone. I tell my wife what time I will be home. If I'm not home by then, she can go look at the endomondo map and see where I am. I would hate to spend the night unconscious 5 or 10 feet off the trail.

A negative to them is how often they poll for GPS points. I can't find the official number, but most of my gpx files from runkeeper or endomondo have 5 to 10 seconds between GPS points. This effectively trims off distance around curves and any tight switchbacks. The regular Garmin might do the same...not sure. This doesn't seem to be as big of an issue for me on the road bike since the turns are more gradual and not as twisty.

I've almost thought of just using both so I can get live tracking from endomondo and then coming up with a way to merge them since my hrm also connects to my phone.

--
Stephen


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

the current crop of edge models does live tracking in conjunction with your phone. However, the drawback of doing this is increased battery drain on both the gps AND the phone. I turn my phone off and put it in my pack. that way, if I need it for emergency contact, I can pull it out and use it. and have time to find a place with reception if I happen to have problems with spotty cell reception.

if you are serious about live tracking, you are better off with a SPOT or Delorme InReach. These devices are designed to function like this with long battery life (they can last days or weeks on a set of batteries). they do not record high frequency data suitable for mapping or fitness analysis, but they have satellite connectivity and are much more reliable than using your phone and a cellular data connection for live tracking.

MOST gps receivers give you 1 second recording. there are a few exceptions (Edge 200, some basic Forerunners that use "Smart" recording), and they suck for use on a mtb. I would like to see cycling gps receivers increase recording frequency. current gps chipsets are capable of it. I think more receivers don't actually record that frequently because they are using the extra points to process out bad data. but there are some gps dataloggers and external gps receivers with bluetooth connectivity that record MUCH more frequently than 1Hz. I have seen 10Hz on some. It will come eventually.

in this "age of connectivity" people forget about how things USED to be. if you ride alone, ride more conservatively. you can't rely totally on your phone to let your family know that you've been an idiot and knocked yourself unconscious. What happens if this happens when you are riding in a location with spotty cell service and your wreck happens sometime after you've ridden out of cell coverage? What happens when you have a mechanical and your 3hr ride becomes a 7hr hike-a-bike and your phone battery dies because of all the stuff you're running? Do you get an expensive emergency evac just because your bike is broken and you're now walking safely (albeit very slowly) back to the car?

I don't push myself unless I'm riding with others. If I'm alone, I stay off of higher risk technical stuff. I don't ride as fast. I tell my wife where I'm riding and what my expected time out should be, if she's not riding with me. I send her a text when I'm finished with the trail (text messages are more likely to get out under spotty coverage than any data of any kind).


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## drwx (Jun 4, 2011)

I'm not generally super concerned with battery life. Most of the places that I ride are in good cell signal areas. 

What are some of the standalone GPS units that do live tracking?

--
Stephen


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

drwx said:


> I'm not generally super concerned with battery life. Most of the places that I ride are in good cell signal areas.
> 
> What are some of the standalone GPS units that do live tracking?
> 
> ...


I think battery life should be a pretty significant concern. I do 6+hr rides several times a year. I do camp/ride trips where I want to record all of my riding over a weekend or longer but might not have a chance to charge every day.

I don't know how someone can mtb and NOT get into spotty cell coverage. I live in a state that generally has good cell coverage. But some areas get spotty when you're deep in the valleys and hollows in remote areas. We're going to be developing more trails in coming years in parts of the state where even on the ridgetops, you have iffy coverage. I'm not going to get too wrapped up in live tracking in those types of cases.

The Garmin Edge 510/810/1000 all offer live tracking when paired with a compatible phone. I have noticed some of Garmin's competitors are offering similar types of services, though their availability is more limited. You can turn off some of the phone's services to save on some battery when compared to using a phone by itself, but many of the same limitations apply. That's why I said if you're going to rely heavily on that feature, you're better off with a device DESIGNED for that function that uses a satellite based transmitter like a SPOT or a Delorme InReach. Neither of those devices is foolproof, but they're more reliable than a cell phone due to battery life, reception in remote areas, and accuracy. But if you want something with the best reliability to get an emergency signal out, a PLB is the most reliable option on the market.


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## drwx (Jun 4, 2011)

NateHawk said:


> I think battery life should be a pretty significant concern. I do 6+hr rides several times a year. I do camp/ride trips where I want to record all of my riding over a weekend or longer but might not have a chance to charge every day.
> 
> I don't know how someone can mtb and NOT get into spotty cell coverage. I live in a state that generally has good cell coverage. But some areas get spotty when you're deep in the valleys and hollows in remote areas. We're going to be developing more trails in coming years in parts of the state where even on the ridgetops, you have iffy coverage. I'm not going to get too wrapped up in live tracking in those types of cases.
> 
> The Garmin Edge 510/810/1000 all offer live tracking when paired with a compatible phone. I have noticed some of Garmin's competitors are offering similar types of services, though their availability is more limited. You can turn off some of the phone's services to save on some battery when compared to using a phone by itself, but many of the same limitations apply. That's why I said if you're going to rely heavily on that feature, you're better off with a device DESIGNED for that function that uses a satellite based transmitter like a SPOT or a Delorme InReach. Neither of those devices is foolproof, but they're more reliable than a cell phone due to battery life, reception in remote areas, and accuracy. But if you want something with the best reliability to get an emergency signal out, a PLB is the most reliable option on the market.


i'm generally only out for 3 hours at a time. my longest ride thusfar is 4 hours.

as far as cell coverage goes, 90% of the time i'm in the metro nashville area for riding and there aren't really any real mountains here to block the cell signal. The trail i typically ride is around 11 miles. The trails in and around nashville are my only options for after-work riding during the week. On the weekends, I can venture out to some of the other trails in the area, but am still limited by time. I think that the worst cell signal I've seen on the trails that i regularly ride is EDGE (ATT). We went out and rode way out in the sticks a few weeks ago and that was the only place that I didn't ever get any cell signal....but I was with another rider plus there was another group of people riding separately.

i WISH we had real mountains here. We have to go to east TN or at least to the cumberland plateau for that sort of stuff. But if/when I go to those areas, I have a friend with me, so the live-tracking isn't really as important then. the live-tracking is most important to me when i'm riding on the local trails alone.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

drwx said:


> i'm generally only out for 3 hours at a time. my longest ride thusfar is 4 hours.
> 
> as far as cell coverage goes, 90% of the time i'm in the metro nashville area for riding and there aren't really any real mountains here to block the cell signal. The trail i typically ride is around 11 miles. The trails in and around nashville are my only options for after-work riding during the week. On the weekends, I can venture out to some of the other trails in the area, but am still limited by time. I think that the worst cell signal I've seen on the trails that i regularly ride is EDGE (ATT). We went out and rode way out in the sticks a few weeks ago and that was the only place that I didn't ever get any cell signal....but I was with another rider plus there was another group of people riding separately.
> 
> i WISH we had real mountains here. We have to go to east TN or at least to the cumberland plateau for that sort of stuff. But if/when I go to those areas, I have a friend with me, so the live-tracking isn't really as important then. the live-tracking is most important to me when i'm riding on the local trails alone.


To be fair, I'm not talking about places you never get any signal. I'm talking about spotty coverage. Where you may or may not get reception. Or you might get a momentary voice connection - enough to send out a text - but no data. I live in Indiana and for the most part, there isn't anywhere you go that doesn't get ANY coverage at all. I lived in Texas for a number of years, and worked in Utah for a summer awhile back. I know what it's like for there to be ZERO hope of a cell signal. I knew people in TX that had personal hardware at their homes that routed their cellular calls over a landline.

Spotty coverage like that can be a problem for any phone app that relies on a constant data connection.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Try it*



Alias530 said:


> I have no idea what garmin connect is... is it equivalent to strava? I thought it was an upload portal/service based on the way the first response phrased it.


Try it, it's free. They have just started segments too, but they admit it is a bit buggy. But as far as I can tell it does everything Strava does but it's free.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Live tracking?*



drwx said:


> i'm generally only out for 3 hours at a time. my longest ride thus far is 4 hours.... 90% of the time i'm in the metro nashville area for riding and there aren't really any real mountains here to block the cell signal.


You need live tracking for this


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## bucknejo (Apr 16, 2014)

For whatever it's worth, I put my Motorola Droid Razr HD in airplane mode and run Strava. A two hour ride generally uses about 20% of the available battery. I pair this with a quad lock headset/handlebar mount:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HETXQEC/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

... for a ghetto-ready mtb GPS. I'm pretty sure not all smart phones allow for device-only location services so that could be a deal-breaker depending on the manufacturer.

It's not a pro setup but I'm a total amateur and probably shouldn't even be commenting on this thread.


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## drwx (Jun 4, 2011)

Wherewolf said:


> You need live tracking for this


lets see...

riding alone? check
can get hurt or knocked unconscious? check
ride in sketchy areas with riff raff at the trailheads? check

a trail doesn't have to be long and in the middle of nowhere for you to get hurt on.


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## K3N (Aug 23, 2010)

To the ops original question.....I ride in the PAC NW & have run into trouble with my phone losing signal/ending the strava recording too soon, or the ride just being straight whacky. I RARELY have any cell signal whatsoever. Texts may/may not send but a call is out of the question. So that was part of my reasoning behind getting an edge 510 a few months back: being able to load a route, Heart rate monitor, a "better" (more consistent) gps recording & the wife really liked the livetracking feature (usually a solo rider), plus having sooooo much info always on display in front of me is pretty cool. (I had no bike computer before).... So now,that I've used it a whole bunch here is what I can say about the difference. GPS recording-awesome, even in my thick foresty mountain. All the data on display-awesome. Battery life-awesome. Routes & mapping-decent for my place of Mtb, better suited for road riding with less turns & stuff. Live track-only works if my phone has signal... So,pretty worthless on my Mtb rides & again better for my road rides

And since we're talking bout strava- sign up on copymysports. Anytime you finish a ride on the garmin, sync it with your phone. Now your ride is on the garmin site (the Garmin Connect app). Copymysports will automatically transfer it to strava. Done!


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## Whacked (Sep 29, 2008)

Can you even see your cell screen in sunlight? I haven't seen a phone where you could yet. Granted I stoped looking a couple years ago when I bought my garmin. I want to be able to see the screen regardless of light conditions

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## simenf (Nov 10, 2008)

My iphone 5S running Strava is always in the top of my backpack. It is not an option to clamp it to the bars due to the size and vulnerability.
For trail riding this works fine, but a watch type replica display with essential data such as HR/time/distance would be nice. Does it excist?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## meirvin (May 28, 2014)

its coming in Sept or Oct



simenf said:


> My iphone 5S running Strava is always in the top of my backpack. It is not an option to clamp it to the bars due to the size and vulnerability.
> For trail riding this works fine, but a watch type replica display with essential data such as HR/time/distance would be nice. Does it excist?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bosse (Sep 3, 2013)

The most important issue for me is real time tracking. This is a huge safety aspect when I ride alone. For that I use LocaToWeb on my phone which I easily get 9-10 hours out of. It's very stable and handles connectivity drops well. Check it out on locatoweb.com


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## jimbo15471 (Jun 18, 2012)

meirvin said:


> its coming in Sept or Oct


What is it called? beta? from strava?


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## Chukwithak (May 4, 2012)

jimbo15471 said:


> What is it called? beta? from strava?


I think he's referring to the iwatch which may be pushed back to nov/dec, but we'll see it this fall.


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