# Spider eyes MK3



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

The original Spidereyes has been on tour around the UK since it was hacked out of a lump of Ali 
and I was not happy with the beam from the MK2 so started the 3 yesterday .
I did start to take pics along the way but got a bit carried away with the butcher job and tool abuse so forgot .

job started with a 2.5 inch square bar and the powerhacksaw










Which got a little way in and broke the blade so had a good hour+ with the elbow hacksaw

Then on to the rotary table ( Oh how I wish I have bought a bigger one ) 
getting it all clamped up seemed to take forever.










Got well and truly into the machining so not many interim pics










just after this pic I had a good vacuum up before the whole job was buried under chips.

A bit more exercise to warm up in the cold workshop with some more sawing to remove some metal










then back in the mill to make more chips loving the carbide hogging out tool makes for fast removal of waste .


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Looking great Chris. So many process's to get to the final shape but well worth it. 

I have a 3 axis DRO arriving for my mill in a week or so and I'm going to add a lathe to the back shed so I can start making some lights at home, Yay.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Looking great Chris. So many process's to get to the final shape but well worth it.
> 
> I have a 3 axis DRO arriving for my mill in a week or so and I'm going to add a lathe to the back shed so I can start making some lights at home, Yay.


Cheers Brad not quite as I had in my head but when you mill a little bit badly you then adapt to how it evolves.

here is the thing ready for a dunk in the caustic after a whole heap of rubbing with abrasive to get the final shape.










and having a fizzing time in said nasty stuff










not quite as exciting in the desmut nasty stuff just seems to sit there doing nothing .










heres my ano set up in the shed










and the thing cooking in the acid those fume control balls make a large difference to the breath ability in there too need a few more though










all assembled for testing


















OK a bit of a why did I not like the beam from the mk2 
it had the asphericals and one LXM for fill in close by but as they were all pionting at the same place it was only the spill from the LXM that shone down on the ground this was evident when I covered the eyes up .

so for this one I have gone back to 2 xpgs in parallel then in series with the 2 xmls 
and have angled them down a few degrees so as to have the long beam and the short beam .

I have not lit it up in the dark but here is a shot to show what it is like on the wall


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Novel idea! It will be interesting to hear your thoughts after a few rides. Seems to me that there may be too much difference between the floody 10mm Carclos and the die projection of the aspherics based on the wall shot. Only trail use will tell the real story. +10 for creativity.


----------



## BKruahnndon (Jul 17, 2009)

very cool idea and execution. 
Can we get some specs on the hardware? I'm interested in the aspherics used. size? where'd you get them? ...and of course beamshots!


----------



## SBJohn (Feb 5, 2010)

Troutie
I live for your posts. Love the machining shots, buckets of acid sitting around, power supplies with leads askew, swarf and most of all your creativity. You rock. Keep the posts coming. Thanks.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

BKruahnndon said:


> very cool idea and execution.
> Can we get some specs on the hardware? I'm interested in the aspherics used. size? where'd you get them? ...and of course beamshots!


Aspherics from  Ash over on CPF 

27 mm dia and 15.5 mm high with a very short focal length about 8 mm from the top of the XML dome.

due to the image of the die having lines in I have set the leds one vertical and one horizontal 
or you could defocus the lenses a tiny bit .

Driver = H6Flex 
leds 2 x XML U2 - 2S and 2 XPG R5 Tint unknown

It is foul weather here so cant see any riding for a while so even though it was not fit to send a dog out the dog and I ventured in to the woods for some testing

beam shots I only had it set on 2 levels max and level 3 on the 3 amp flex table.



















First impressions were good and as you can see in the photos there is a small dark slot between the beam and the flood so it seems I am out by a degree or 2 and for perfection it would need lifting to blend with the aspherics beam .

in real life this was not so much of an issue and it was barely noticeable when moving along .

looks like 2 lights and I like it from the first walk when the damn rain stops I will see if I like it as much on the bike .

I also have a Gopro vid uploading to youtube so will link to it when done .


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Looks excellent Chris. The aspherics really have some throw. 

Can you easily mill the housing to get the couple of degrees difference you are after?


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

It looks better in the outdoor shots than what I thought it would based on the look of the wall shots. Just a touch higher with the flood would blend a bit better with the aspherics. Still and all, looking quite nice!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Looks excellent Chris. The aspherics really have some throw.
> 
> Can you easily mill the housing to get the couple of degrees difference you are after?


no not enough meat left to machine a cole of degrees difference 
it will need a mk 4 for any amendments 
I. could drop the aspherics a little to difuse the beam which would do it .


----------



## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> no not enough meat left to machine a cole of degrees difference
> it will need a mk 4 for any amendments
> I. could drop the aspherics a little to difuse the beam which would do it .


Another trick you might try, is to move the LEDs (behind the aspherics) up just a little bit. This wouldn't involved any machining. Just remove the LEDs and replace them slightly higher.

You probably only need to shift them up by about 0.12mm in order to get a drop of 2 degrees.

Well done on the Mk3.
Looks really nice.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I actually think I like that little bit of separation.

Tried to subscribe to amticoman, what a RPITA it is signing up to Utoob. I rarely use the correct details when filling out those type of accounts, unfortunately I am now younger than 13 and have to show my credit card details to get the account unlocked. Someone didn't think that through did they?!

How's the vid going Chris, you no how impatient we are?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ahorton said:


> Another trick you might try, is to move the LEDs (behind the aspherics) up just a little bit. This wouldn't involved any machining. Just remove the LEDs and replace them slightly higher.
> 
> You probably only need to shift them up by about 0.12mm in order to get a drop of 2 degrees.
> 
> ...


Good thinking Ash though have started revision 4

Sorry Stu 
The videos were rubbish. had the wrong settings so need to try again.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Walk in the woods with a spidereye light video

Had to resort to old tech again for a better picture in the lowish light .


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Walk in the woods with a spidereye light video
> 
> Had to resort to old tech again for a better picture in the lowish light .


Look good Chris. I still can't get over the throw of the aspherics. :thumbsup:


----------



## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

ahorton said:


> Another trick you might try, is to move the LEDs (behind the aspherics) up just a little bit. This wouldn't involved any machining. Just remove the LEDs and replace them slightly higher.
> 
> You probably only need to shift them up by about 0.12mm in order to get a drop of 2 degrees.
> 
> ...


Yes, that would work well - good approach!


----------



## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Amazing throw with those aspherics which throws up a number of issues in my mind that you might be able to clarify for me Troutie.

Is not the light produced by double XM-Ls and aspherics almost too bright with too much throw? For an MTB light how far do you think that you really need to see ahead in the dark? Any light, however bright, is never going to be able to replicate the “see-ahead” factor of daylight.

The dark patch between the aspherics and the other optics is something which you are obviously striving to overcome. With the XM-Ls being so bright and concentrated by the aspherics isn’t there always likely to be a mismatch between the two sources of light? 

Maybe what might be better is to have two XM-Ls aspherics stacked vertically with an angle between them to elongate the intense patch of light the aspherics produce. Maybe a slight de-focus of one or both would be worth investigating as well?

Maybe it doesn’t come over in the beamshots and videos because you might be already closer than it appears but what I think you should be striving for is a more even “corridor” of light down the trail. That way your eyes will adjust to the same level of light as you scan near and far rather than being drawn to the bright patch created by the XM-Ls and aspherics.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OTH
OK I will try and say it as I see it and seeing is the only way to get the true awesomeness .

first Q possibly yes but I dont see it as too bright the near light is good and the beam from the aspherics lighting up farther does not seem too bright and when I merge the 2 in revision 4 it will be better .

what I did notice and this was walking not riding was when set at the correct angle I never had to point my head down to see the ground near me so all movement was just eyes looking which should be good on the bike .

I do like to be able to scan a long way in open terrain not just in the direction I am travelling
and for this it is perfect .

As I mentioned at the start of the thread about the original being out on loan to various folks and feedback from 99% has been really positive with quite a few wanting to be on the waiting list for one when and if I make a few more .

I must point out that the full power setting is way over the top and not needed ever .
( but its nice to have available ) level 3 is sweet and the one I use most and its only drawing half an amp from the battery .

Your last question is addressed when the 2 beams merge it will be a long corridor of light down the trail and again the beamshots and vid dont do it justice


And on a headband for walking the dog it is excellent and he likes it as he spots rabbits before they spot him ( still not caught one yet )


----------



## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> OTH
> OK I will try and say it as I see it and seeing is the only way to get the true awesomeness .
> 
> first Q possibly yes but I dont see it as too bright the near light is good and the beam from the aspherics lighting up farther does not seem too bright and when I merge the 2 in revision 4 it will be better .
> ...


I'm sure you will get it right and really look forward to seeing it when it is done. All credit to you for keep bashing away to find the ideal combination.

Another couple of questions then.

Will this be the only light you think you would need (for mountain biking) or would it be backed up with a bar light as well? In that case you would need to match the beams wouldn't you?

Do you think aspherics are the way to go for the future?

On the rabbit front you need a lurcher.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OverTheHill said:


> I'm sure you will get it right and really look forward to seeing it when it is done. All credit to you for keep bashing away to find the ideal combination.
> 
> Another couple of questions then.
> 
> ...


I would be happy to ride with just this light but will still have a bar light as I do think 2 lights should be normal when out at night a back up is always good.

OK I am old and my eyes not great so lots of help is good 
with a triple XML on the bars the spidereyes cut through it perfectly

and on the road its a great light a slight twist of the head take the beam away from the approaching drivers

I like the aspherics but they are a goodly bit less efficient than a reflector or optic but make up for it by better use of the lumens

No Not really wanting to catch the rabbits so will keep Paddy the lumen hound


----------



## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> I would be happy to ride with just this light but will still have a bar light as I do think 2 lights should be normal when out at night a back up is always good.
> 
> OK I am old and my eyes not great so lots of help is good
> with a triple XML on the bars the spidereyes cut through it perfectly
> ...


I agree, it's always advisable to have backup. I didn't consider the possibilities of using them on the road either, the extra advantage being the lack of spill to dazzle oncoming drivers.

Damn, I can see myself ordering some aspherics from ahorton after Christmas! 

Thanks for all your help and advice Troutie, much appreciated. :thumbsup:


----------



## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

Hmm, I'm not so keen on this light. The range is great, but I would like more spill. Might be ok with a good bar light or maybe defocused a bit. Still a brilliant bit of engineering though


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

JezV said:


> Hmm, I'm not so keen on this light. The range is great, but I would like more spill. Might be ok with a good bar light or maybe defocused a bit. Still a brilliant bit of engineering though


The video does not show it off in its true colours there is plenty of spill that you cant see .
the 10 mm xpgs and optics see to that well .


----------



## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

More nightshots? 

Different area maybe...


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Chris you have given me the aspheric itch and am just about to order some from Ahorton. I mounted my 80mm aspheric in front of an xml driven at 2.8amps the other night and my god it throws out some light. Like you say perfect for scanning ahead whilst the bar light provides the up close spill.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I just got my hands on the first machine shop housing heres some mobile phone pics 
I will pop more info up later


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

WOW, that looks fantastic, how much does it weigh now?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> WOW, that looks fantastic, how much does it weigh now?


massive weight. 125 grams built up but without helmet mount


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> I just got my hands on the first machine shop housing heres some mobile phone pics
> I will pop more info up later


Awesome work, as always, Troutie! Excellent job keeping the weight down for helmet use. I've been looking for a light, high power, helmet light dedicated for throw (my 3 xml light is just not cutting it). Looks like I may need to add another Troutie light to my collection...


----------



## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

Nice!

Kinda makes me think of a dragonfly rather than a spider


----------



## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

I like the surprised, jaw dropped googley eyed look! Like a round bottomed, fine feminine Finn sans clothing just stepped into full view.  A red tongue hanging below the XP-G's would complete the panting look. 

BrianMc


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> massive weight. 125 grams built up but without helmet mount


Very impressed, the big boys must be tossing in their sleep every time they see a post from you.

:thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Ha I dont think the big boys get worried by us lot on here more worried about the Magicshine and co I would think .

Back from visiting family so into the anodise baths

and time to build it up



































and the lovely Brenda modelling it on a helmet


















Total weight 139 grams on my kitchen scales


----------



## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

That is a nice build. A tongue hanging out would be boss. I forgot, what size aspherics are those?


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Looks very nice Chris. It reminds me of Roberto from Futurama


----------



## tanner72 (Sep 28, 2008)

Stunning work Troutie - every time you raise the bar the rest of just have to get back in the shed!


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Ha I dont think the big boys get worried by us lot on here more worried about the Magicshine and co I would think .


I think they would be concerned about the MS clones from a cost point perspective, I'm sure you would give them food for thought from an innovation / build quality perspective.

Is there much light bleed out the side between the light body and the retaining plate where it sits over the edge of the aspheric?

Have you made up two collars so you can experiment with your beam shots to see if they do give more throw?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> I think they would be concerned about the MS clones from a cost point perspective, I'm sure you would give them food for thought from an innovation / build quality perspective.
> 
> Is there much light bleed out the side between the light body and the retaining plate where it sits over the edge of the aspheric?
> 
> Have you made up two collars so you can experiment with your beam shots to see if they do give more throw?


Cheers Stu I dont think many main stream light buyers are too bothered what they get 
beam wise a bright light is a certainty now a days .
its only really the types like us that try for that perfect light and as such we are still looking .

it was only a loose asembly for those photos as still experimenting with focal lengths.
no not had a chance to mess with the light reclaimation collars and to be honest there is so much brightness and an awesome throw that I am not sure I would implement it for a bike light even if / when it gets perfected.


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

I am still baffled how the MS lights can be made so cheaply. They must pay their workers literately in peanuts.

Can't wait for my asherics to arrive so I can have a fiddle. By the looks of your beamshots they cannot be beaten for throw on the helmet. Couple that with a triple or double xml on the bars and nasa could track you in the trails.


----------



## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

Very nicely done! So many things to admire in the pictures. The AA cell shows how small it is.Much smaller than I imagined. I see a little polished collar in the corner (makes me happy). The pretty model with the pale white complexion.

However I'm not impressed by the orange/red combo.


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Troutie nice light. :thumbsup:
You should take your wife somewhere nice and sunny for a holiday, she looks pretty pale.


----------



## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

Tell me Troutie, what was your thinking regarding the little hoods protecting the lenses?

As it is it looks like they are not protecting the lens from every angle. Of course they are pretty strong and don't really need a hood, so maybe you went for looks?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ahorton said:


> Tell me Troutie, what was your thinking regarding the little hoods protecting the lenses?
> 
> As it is it looks like they are not protecting the lens from every angle. Of course they are pretty strong and don't really need a hood, so maybe you went for looks?


Good point Ash

the hoods were for if I put the light on the handlebars to keep stray light from distracting the rider when stood in the pedals .

also for some more surface to sink the heat away as it has not a lot of mass it does heat up very quick when no airflow though I did a small ride yesterday and ran it on full for the whole ride with no thermal dimming mind the ambient temp was 5c


----------



## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

That was my other guess. 

Just curious what pushed you towards that design. I've also wandered between total protection or none at all and sometimes something in the middle like what you've done here.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ahorton said:


> That was my other guess.
> 
> Just curious what pushed you towards that design. I've also wandered between total protection or none at all and sometimes something in the middle like what you've done here.


As with all my lights I just whacked a lump of metal in the mill and start cutting 
they evolve as I work
.then my machinist takes the proto and pretties it up on his cad cam 
ready for a batch machining.

I usually have an idea as to what I want but it mostly changes as I remove metal

That is probably why there ar 4 other prototypes kicking around .

it would be real useful to learn cad drawing but I am a lost cause I fear.

I also had one similar to your Spike with one eye but had more requests for the double eyed light so 
the ugly face it was.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

He He finally got my hands on some more housings and got busy with the acid and dyes 
also makes a great night dog walking light


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

ooooh, very nice! I particularly like the orange one. :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

kwarwick said:


> ooooh, very nice! I particularly like the orange one. :thumbsup:


Ha Ha that orange was supposed to be gold but I left it in the dye a bit too long


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I would have said where is the orange one, but maybe that is my screen colour

They look great Chris, not sure about that hat though :thumbsup:


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Ha Ha that orange was supposed to be gold but I left it in the dye a bit too long


Nice little collection there Chris..:thumbsup:

You just need 2 heads... 2 for you and one for the lumen hound 

I still haven't played with my gold dye, but gateros did tell me that when you seal it..it will change colour again.. did that happen for you?
The orange looks nice anyway..


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Nice little collection there Chris..:thumbsup:
> 
> You just need 2 heads... 2 for you and one for the lumen hound
> 
> ...


Might do as it did look nice and golden when I took it out of the dye 
looks more like burnished copper now .


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

:thumbsup:These look fantastic Chris...a light with character


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi Chris
I was just wondering if you had any of these housings available? I love the look of it and fancy something new for my helmet light..

Steve


----------



## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


>


Sorry, but I can't resist 










I am slowly making similar light, but without these eyes


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Hi Chris
> I was just wondering if you had any of these housings available? I love the look of it and fancy something new for my helmet light..
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve 
Had a harddrive failure and lost my email addresses 
got a few spiders housings left if you want one drop me an email


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi Chris
Sorry for slow reply...had a few issues @ home and don't have any spare cash now :-( TV and dishwasher both went pop last week:madman:
Cheers
Steve


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi Chris
Sorry for slow reply...had a few issues @ home and don't have any spare cash now :-( TV and dishwasher both went pop last week:madman:
Cheers
Steve


----------

