# frame saver: yay or nay?



## gotdirt (Jan 17, 2006)

did a quick search (was surprised to see so many results in the 29'er forum), but results were mixed... i figured folks in this forum who actually restore old bikes likely have better experience. 

is _frame saver_ a good idea for an old bontrager (steel) frame? i've seen opinions all over the road: waste of time/money; a must; just use motor oil; just use olive oil. 

so what's the word? i've got my old privateer stripped down and am looking at also building up an old race lite (which reminds me: if this procedure is recommended, how much do you use per frame?).

thanks in advance.


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## ade (Apr 7, 2006)

I have used frame saver on my 95 Kona Lava Dome.
The stuff I used is hammerite (UK), it's waxy and doesn't wash off.
The reason I used it is it cures any rust in there to start with then provides a waxy film to stop any new rust building up (handy on old frames), olive oil won't do this.

One thing I would say though it's not easy to apply, and you never know if you have managed to coat all the tubes, oil would be easier if you know there is no traces of rust in there to start with.

Oh there is a small weight penalty with frame saver, only a small one though.

Take it easy


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

As long as you have the frame stripped down, why not do it? I figure it couldn't hurt (as far as I know), may only help, and it only costs about $13. That's not exactly big bucks.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

I think there is a rebellious element of DIY involved in the widespread use of alternatives. I've seen this in tubeless sealants too. "Screw that, I'm not going to pay $X for quart of the name brand stuff, when this car tire stuff is $x for a GALLON!" Never mind it rots the tire casing 6 months down the road..... If I can put it in my frame and it's oily and hardens, it will work too, right? And to some extent that's true, anything is better than nothing. I've had good results with FrameSaver, and I know a number of high end steel frame builders that love it, and treat their stuff with it, right out of the jig. I've never heard of a problem, what's the beef with it, if any? It smells wonderfully "nature/chemically" and it sets up like rock, so make sure you wipe it off while still wet, or you'll have a nice bit of paint clean up to do. I'd use it, stuffs great, it's kept the frames I've built, rust free, and my '95 S-Works is doing great too. :thumbsup:


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

IF not that then something like Kroil or Boesheild might be worth using. I've used Boesheild for years in frames and on bare metal part on my cars. It works great to keep corrosion at bay even in salty northeast Ohio.


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## elephant (Mar 21, 2006)

I say go with frame saver. It works and it is cheap.

I have it in all my bikes - all my bikes are steel. For external bare spots, like chain suck and the like, I use a gun oil called eezox; it cleans and protects bare steel excellently and does not damage the paint.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

I've used Framesaver on my Indy deluxe and Bridgstone road bike. I live in new england, lot's of rain and snow. Zero problems.

I have a Klien I ride in the winter...aluminum won't rust like steel.

Didn't use it on my old Monster Fat, bottom bracket spindle had rust, frame bottom bracket tube had rust, even after draining water after washing, etc. 

I have a 95 Bonti Race I'm building now, used a marine product called "Panof", just for kicks. Sprays on more clear than Weigles, takes longer to dry, thinner consistency. And too many "inhaling can cause cancer" warnings. Should have read the fine print before buying.

Bike isn't fully built yet, so I can't speak for it's protective qualities.

I prefer Wiegles Frame saver. Dries thicker. Do it, cheap piece of mind!

If there is a downside, I can't see it. Steel rust. Protect that frame!


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*lifted from the instructions*



gotdirt said:


> (which reminds me: if this procedure is recommended, how much do you use per frame?).
> 
> thanks in advance.


"two lighter applications are better than one heavy application"


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## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

gotdirt said:


> did a quick search (was surprised to see so many results in the 29'er forum), but results were mixed... i figured folks in this forum who actually restore old bikes likely have better experience.
> 
> is _frame saver_ a good idea for an old bontrager (steel) frame? i've seen opinions all over the road: waste of time/money; a must; just use motor oil; just use olive oil.
> 
> ...


 I'm sure it's fine stuff, but since you're in Colorado as long as you grease the bb you'd probably have to try really hard to get a frame rusty enough to be a problem!


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## gotdirt (Jan 17, 2006)

*thanks for the replies...*



hollister said:


> "two lighter applications are better than one heavy application"


so, how many "applications" are in one bottle/can? one frame per bottle?



surly357 said:


> I'm sure it's fine stuff, but since you're in Colorado as long as you grease the bb you'd probably have to try really hard to get a frame rusty enough to be a problem!


well i bought/rode the privateer when i was living in NYC for 8 years...

so that raises another question-- is this treatment really only beneficial for new (bare metal) frames? looks like i've got some light surface rust already... seeing as how i am in CO now, i don't anticipate a bunch of new rust, so will FS do anything for that which is already there?

i'm sure there are directions on the bottle, but is this just something you pour in the BB shell and then shake/rotate the frame around to get in all the tubes?

apparently none of my LBS stock it (though can order it), so i've never seen it before.

thanks.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

gotdirt said:


> so, how many "applications" are in one bottle/can? one frame per bottle?
> 
> .


done three frames (2 coats each) easily half a can left.its a aerosol can, spray in the breather holes and rotate the frame to coat the tubes. dont think its gonna do anything for rust thats all ready there.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

It in an aresol can, has a little straw like wd40. You spray it in all frame holes and breather holes, rotate frames all around to make sure it coats all sides (sides of a tube)?

Not rocket science, you can't go wrong. Keep water bottle bolts in holes to keep from weeping out of those.

One can should do a few frames.

Be careful: at times, if you jam the straw into a small Chainstay breather hole, spray, then pull straw out, you may get a geyser of spray coming back at ya!

You are basically pressurizing the tube.

It may retard the growth of old rust. I don't have a can nearby, i'm going from memory.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

yes. can't hurt. local hardware or auto store should have some rust inhibitor spray for only a few bucks. easier to get. spray it in all the tubes liberally, swish things around a bit, let sit for a day or two.

at least that's what i've done with all my steel frames in the past. never had any issues other than very slight surface rust in the bb and the very top of the seat tube, even when living and riding in the sloppy-wet williamette valley area of oregon. 

so what color didja paint it?


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## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

Speaking of WD-40, anyone heard anything about it used in the same way as Framesaver, or actually used it? I was thinking it might work, the WD does stand for Water Displacement. I'm guessing it wouldn't last as long as Framesaver though.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

djmuff said:


> Speaking of WD-40, anyone heard anything about it used in the same way as Framesaver, or actually used it? I was thinking it might work, the WD does stand for Water Displacement. I'm guessing it wouldn't last as long as Framesaver though.


I asked about WD40 awhile back and someone said he thought it'd be worse than no treatment. Something about removing the protection already within the tubes.


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*I dug into*

Some of those cool products they use in Euro . . . But I generally use J. P. Weigle Framesaver with no ills . . .

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9316


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## logbiter (Dec 30, 2003)

djmuff said:


> Speaking of WD-40, anyone heard anything about it used in the same way as Framesaver, or actually used it? I was thinking it might work, the WD does stand for Water Displacement. I'm guessing it wouldn't last as long as Framesaver though.


Forget about WD, it won't leave anything to protect the metal.
if there's some rust present where you can't get to it, I'd use some boeshield t9 or corrosion block. both these are readily available at a decent hardware store or marine store. 
I've been using 'em for years & corrosion block lasts longer than the T9 (especially for marine application- especially can tell on wiring).


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## jack lantern (Jun 23, 2006)

gotdirt said:


> so, how many "applications" are in one bottle/can? one frame per bottle?
> 
> well i bought/rode the privateer when i was living in NYC for 8 years...
> 
> ...


I got a can of Weigles in front of me and here's what it says regarding directions:

_Wear eye protection, work outside or over a protected surface. Shake can well, insert extension tube (straw) into spray button. Spray a 3-5 second blast into each tube, plug ends with paper towel to contain liquid, rotate frame to help distribution. Paper towels will absorb excess liquid. DO NOT INSERT EXTENSION TUBE INTO SMALL VENT HOLES (forks, seat stays), you will force liquid & propellant into tube, which will spray back at you when wand is removed. Instead, spray at them, with rag behind stay to absorb over-spray. Invert frame and rotate to help distribution._

I think anyone who's used this stuff including myself puts the straw into the small vent holes anyway, just be prepared for the spray-back. Using the "2 light coats" method I was able to make one 4.75oz can cover 5 frames, if memory serves. As far as new frame or old, since you can't see inside the tubes (besides BB & HT) you wouldn't really know what's doin' in there so I say spray away. Good stuff, just kinda messy & pretty smelly :arf:


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## Fred Smedley (Feb 28, 2006)

Anybody ever hear of Rust-mort? It is a sprayable primer, a fairly thin liguid that chemically converts rust to a black substance that stops further rust. I used it on a old chevy truck I repainted, It worked really well and a quart is way cheaper than frame saver. I have used frame saver on my bianchi build and it is a great product, just harder to find.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Krikey people.

Anybody ever try cat piss? Anyone ever drink Framesaver on the rocks?

Framesaver. Cheap, easy, specifically designed for steel frames by a bad a$$ custom builder. Works really well. Just buy some and try it, or don't.

Rustmort is for treating areas that are already rusty. I'm not up on the chemistry, but I wouldn't go dumping any willnilly thing down my bike tubes. I would use Framesaver in a rusty frame to retard further rust, and try to figure out/remedy the water intrusion.

WD40 evaporates to nothing. Framesaver stays. Boeshield would be my choice for Al.


-Schmitty-


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## Fred Smedley (Feb 28, 2006)

Schmitty said:


> Krikey people.
> 
> Anybody ever try cat piss? Anyone ever drink Framesaver on the rocks?
> 
> ...


OK RICHARD, go read my post, I said it is a SPRAYABLE primer, I didn't say to dump it down the tubes.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Fred Smedley said:


> I have used frame saver on my bianchi build and it is a great product, just harder to find.


Not that hard:

http://sporting-goods.shop.ebay.com...=7294&_odkw=&_osacat=7294&bkBtn=&_trksid=m270

Or your LBS could probably order it for you.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Semantics. Point is whatch what you put in your tubes. What does it do to silver? brass? Flux residue? 

Framesaver.. designed for use on bikes.


-Schmitty-


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

Fred Smedley said:


> Anybody ever hear of Rust-mort? It is a sprayable primer, a fairly thin liguid that chemically converts rust to a black substance that stops further rust. I used it on a old chevy truck I repainted, It worked really well and a quart is way cheaper than frame saver. I have used frame saver on my bianchi build and it is a great product, just harder to find.


Did you read the data sheet for that stuff??? You may want to note this part: "NOTE: If rust is not present, do not use 6950( )."

It's a rust CONVERTER. It CONVERTS rust to a paintable surface. If there was no rust before you used this stuff, there probably is now...on clean, *rust-free *bare metal it can cause rust...


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## Tassie Devil (Feb 7, 2005)

I just use a lanolin spray. It works a treat and is much easier to get in this part of the world than framesaver.


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## Fred Smedley (Feb 28, 2006)

Schmitty said:


> Semantics. Point is whatch what you put in your tubes. What does it do to silver? brass? Flux residue?
> 
> Framesaver.. designed for use on bikes.
> 
> -Schmitty-


The application I would see using for rust-mort is for chips that have surface rust than applying touch up paint. Obviously Frame Saver is the choice for inside tubes.


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