# What do you prefer, Shimano or SRAM?



## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Tell us what your favorable drivetrain system is. Do you prefer Shimano or SRAM drivetrains. Which and why? 

I was planning to upgrade mine to Shimano SLX or XT, but my LBS's mechanic said he prefers SRAM. This got me thinking.

(Edit: the point of this thread is not to debate. There's enough of that. Simply state what you prefer and why. Please don't ruin it.)


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## IFallDown (Mar 2, 2014)

I love my Sram XX1

but I also love my Race Face Turbine (its not carbon but it's bad ass!)


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## WVPedaler (May 20, 2009)

My last couple bike came with full XT builds. I like both. I think SRAM stuff looks better appearance wise but it all looks the same dirty.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Shimano, mainly because it's more affordably priced. $60 for a XT 11 speed RD, $40 shifter, $60-72 for a wide range cassette.

Not interested in 10t because of the knowledge of how smaller cogs drastically lose efficiency, especially at lower power output:








(1) 22/34; (3) 22/26; (4) 32/34; (7) 22/20; (9) 32/26; 
(10) 44/34; (11) 22/16; (15) 32/20; (16) 44/26; (18) 22/12; 
(20) 32/16; (21) 44/20; (24) 32/12; (25) 44/16; (27) 44/12

Note the 32x12 gearing (24th speed). Also note that this chart plots efficiency with a little under 150W of power and that efficiency rises with higher power output (97% efficiency in gear 25, 44x16 with 300W). Gear 21 (44x20) had the highest efficiency, just ahead of 25. Can only imagine the worse, considering the trend of efficiency getting exponentially worse for each tooth subtracted from the cog size.

To SRAM's benefit, their 12spd Eagle did suggest to move to a bigger chainring and they replaced their lower/tension 12t pulley with a 14t to further reduce frictional losses. When they were pushing their 2x10 XX-era drivetrain, they also emphasized that you should stay in the big ring for as long as possible. Now frame designers need to take this into account when optimizing anti-squat and pedaling characteristics around a certain chainring size...


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Honestly I think they both work exceptionally well. I've owned bikes with both at the same time and the only thing that was difficult was remembering how to use the triggers. It took me all of 1 minute to figure it out and never bugged me again. Pick one and go with it. You'll be happy.


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## ElBorracho62 (Nov 6, 2014)

I've got shimano XTR 11 speed on one bike and SRAM 11 speed on another X01? And I feel that the SRAM is higher quality and shifts better... If I wasn't such a cheap skate I'd have it on both.


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## John (Apr 25, 2004)

11sp M8000 Shimano shifting, cassette, chain. BUT SRAM carbon cranks.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Shimano drivetrain gizmos paired with whatever cranks tickle your sexy bone.

Although I'm about to give the 11spd Gx stuff a whirl, I already hate the shifter because there's no trigger pull, dual thumbs only.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

I have both and they are noticeably different.

I am more of a Shimano guy and the reasons are that I like a more subtle click from the shifter when I shift, but the biggest thing is that I can upshift a few gears at a time with my Shimano RD shifter. Can't do that with Sram. 

However, the Sram drivetrain on my roadie works perfectly.


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## WVPedaler (May 20, 2009)

Hawg said:


> I have both and they are noticeably different.
> 
> I am more of a Shimano guy and the reasons are that I like a more subtle click from the shifter when I shift, but the biggest thing is that I can upshift a few gears at a time with my Shimano RD shifter. Can't do that with Sram.
> 
> However, the Sram drivetrain on my roadie works perfectly.


I am pretty curtain that SRAM can shift multiple gears at once too, if anything I find it harder to get multiple gears with my Shimano setup. I used to be Shimano road, SRAM MTB, but now I ride what I have until it breaks then usually buy whatever I can get a deal on. A lot of roots and rock gardens in the mountains here, RDs catch a lot of stuff. Once one breaks I usually go with a ZEE. I love those little things! Great for a 1X10 setup.

Currently I have all XT MTB and a SRAM Force 22 setup on the road/cross bike.


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## 595978 (Jan 6, 2012)

Sram over Shimano. Intially was shimano guy, but sram shifting is soo good and srams new brakes are amazing was a shimano slx guy but now sram gx all the way. Shimano has great brakes powerful, consistent, low maintenance but sram db's modulation and power in my opinion a cut above


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Whatever's on sale when I need it ^^

Prefer the X9 shifter over an XT.... but, like the shimano rear der over the X9/GX's I've used...

So I'm fubar!

-----------------------------------------------------------
#1 resolution... Ride it like I stole it!!


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

Shimano Xt is almost perfect, but I like the X9 engo's better. I hate the double action downshift junk.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

I have typically liked Sram mountain stuff, because I HATE rapidfire. Shimano's triggers have alwyas felt bad to me, and I can not get used to them. SRAM always gave me the grip shift option, and since Shimano and Sram grip shifts (at high levels) are not compatible, that means SRAM derailleurs. 

I have grown to not too badly mind SRAM triggers however. Still hate Shimano triggers.


Road bike, I wanted to love SRAM, but I cannot stand the shifters. The ergos are just pleasant for my hands.
Shimano Ultegra road, SRAM anything off road. (Currently X01, but I'm fine with X9 or X0 for multi-ring)


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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

I have, use, and like both. However when it comes to
brakes I use Magura.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I've run and liked both but for now, Shimano XTR 2x blows away any of the SRAM drivetrains I've run, to date. Precise, easy, fast shifting is much better than the equivalent SRAM top end I had on the bike originally. I still run a SRAM Carbon crankset, though. And to add since I'm a 2x guy, SRAM can kiss my ass for their recent "Eulogy for the FD" but really, all their FD's sucked ballz and were problematic and far from precise on my rigs anyway so them getting out doesn't really hurt me directly.


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## WVPedaler (May 20, 2009)

This is a endless debate.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

WVPedaler said:


> This is a endless debate.


:lol: It is. It should run a solid 14-15 pages minimum. We'll be able to easily revisit this thread in a month! :lol:


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

WVPedaler said:


> This is a endless debate.


This is not a debate. I didn't ask "What's better" but "What do you prefer and why."


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

SRAM drivetrain and Shimano brakes for me.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

I've run SRAM shifters most often and prefer Shimano cassettes and derailleurs (Shimano 10-speed cassette with a SRAM 9-speed shifter).

Brakes from either manufacturer are fine by me. I have a set of XTR's and oodles of Avid Elixir's and Juicy's... all of them operate well and without a huge amount of variability.


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## willdtrout (Jan 14, 2011)

I've been Shimano biased for a long time. Started in the nineties with just not liking their grip shift stuff. I went with SRAM rival on my road bike and it shifts fine just don't like the mechanism for shifting. Not sure what they have on MTB these days but never liked the dual thumb action they used. The old XTR stuff I have on my ride still shifts incredibly well. 

I'm looking to buy a new bike now and stalling on the one I want because it is spec'ed with a SRAM drivetrain. I'm going to talk to the LBS about changing it out to XT.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Either/or. I have used both and each works fine. From force of habit, I'd probably buy Shimano if forced to chose.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Shimano stuff has worked reliably for me for 30 years and so that's what I'm used to.

XT always get the job done with good performance.


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## RWhiz (Jun 10, 2013)

I've liked Shimano brakes due to their ease of service. Maybe I'm just not as familiar with the SRAM brakes. In general I think Shimano gives a little better quality for the price, but it's pretty close.

To muddy the waters further, my new fatty has Hayes brakes and so far they work great!


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## Sdktm (Dec 20, 2015)

For biking or fishing, Shimano ftw!


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

My bike came with XTR. Ran it for a few years and then when it was getting tired, found a good deal on SRAM X0 stuff so put that on and it's been pretty nice. This is all older though, have no idea about the stuff made in the last 5 years lol.


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## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

I had XX1 on two bikes and both derailleurs were problematic. Clutch needing overhauls and creaking bolt coming undone. Even with locktite. The X1 on another bike was a disaster. B plate split, clutch and creaks. Replaced with XTR which costs less and I prefer. I also cracked an XO crank.


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## WVPedaler (May 20, 2009)

AshevilleMtBiker said:


> This is not a debate. I didn't ask "What's better" but "What do you prefer and why."


Just wait, it will turn into a debate. By page 2-3. Haha


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## ravewoofer (Dec 24, 2008)

Back in the '70's and early 80's, I used Campy record and SuperRecord on my road bike. Nothing could compete with that gruppo. I know, I saw some Dura Ace equipment in the 70's and I laughed at my friends who bought the parts. Japanese? How silly!

Fast forward to '97 to right now. Roadie no more. Mountain bike only, and Shimano only. I can't say Shimano is better than SRAM as I've only used Shimano, but I can say I should be chagrined for poo-pooing any brand as inferior to the status quo.

I still have my Charles Roberts Reynolds 531 DB through out frame with full Campy, but now it just looks quaint. 

Keep an open mind on parts and (gasp) wheel size.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Having SRAM on my fat bike and shimano xt on my 29er I prefer shimano. I use the dual thumb of both and work fine for me. SRAM shifting isn't as smooth but is less finicky about getting nasty with mud and snow.

I do like SRAM grip shifting though. Just see too many failure reports with them to risk the expense. My fat bike came with that set up (9speed) and was the only thing I liked. But gutted it for gx 10s set up 1x10.

But my trail bike will be shimano drivetrains and brakes till something else finally comes out that is as smooth, as affordable and as reliable in all aspects

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## MASC1104 (Feb 2, 2015)

i have full xtr on 1 bike, full XT on another and full sram 9 on another. i much prefer shimano. the shifting, at least on my three bikes, is so much smoother with shimano.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2016)

campy


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## Ericmopar (Aug 23, 2003)

Neither anymore. 
Neither company's product lasts or is as trouble free as in the past.


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

Shimano. Started with Deore push/pull shifting but then bought bikes with SRAM stuff. Hated SRAM's front derailleur and shifter but the rear stuff worked ok.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

My take on SRAM vs Shimano based on experience with both...

SRAM pros:
-They are a very innovative company. Always trying to offer the latest and greatest.
-Lighter weight for most components
-SRAM derailleur clutches work better and not needing a lever to activate/deactivate is nice. I experienced constant chain slap with Shimano clutch derailleurs (lots of time on 10spd XT and Zee and 11spd XTR... all the same thing)
-5 downshifts at once (at least with the higher end groups, no experience with the lower end stuff). Span the whole cassette in 2 presses.
-Grip shift available (if you like it, it's only available with SRAM).
-Smoother downshifts in my experience
-Wider gear range with 1x setups

SRAM Cons:
-More expensive
-More fragile/wears out faster in my experience
-Needs more frequent adjustment than Shimano
-Only single upshift
-Less smooth upshifts in my experience
-SRAM front derailleurs do not work as well in my experience

Shimano pros:
-Rarely needs adjustment once it has been set up
-Double click upshift
-More durable parts in my experience
-Smoother upshifts in my experience
-Their front derailleurs work better in my experience
-Better chains in my experience
-11spd without proprietary adapter

Shimano cons:
-Not as innovative as SRAM. They drag their feet coming out with new stuff compared to SRAM. What was that like 18 months after SRAM for 11spd and still less range?
-Heavier (some stuff by a LOT, percentage-wise, like cassettes at the higher level)
-Less smooth downshifts in my experience


So in my opinion/experience, SRAM has more pros, but Shimano has fewer cons.

This is just my opinion/experience, feel free to disagree


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## SpecialCshoe (Mar 29, 2016)

I prefer shimano. I have shimano slx and xtr componentry. I cant say anything about sram


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Got SRAM on one and Shimano on the other. Prefer SRAM, but will go Shimano if the price is right.

I like the more clicky feel the SRAM shifters have. I use the push/push shift method and the SRAM paddle upshifts faster and smoother than the Shimano. Cage Lock is nice to take tension off the chain. I do like that Shimano has a lighter downshift and the clutch is adjustable. I also like that SRAM uses direct mount rings on their mid-high end cranks. The chainring choice is huge compared to a Shimano fixed spider crank.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

My mtb is a mix of SRAM (drivetrain) and Shimano (brakes). My SRAM drivetrain bits are 10spd parts, but the reliability has been super high with them. Different shift ergonomics took a little time getting used to vs. Shimano, but now that I am used to them, I like them except that the upshift on my XX shifter has a fairly light touch and occasionally when I upshift in SLIGHTLY bumpy spots, I might get multiple upshifts instead of just one. That said, the light action of that shifter also makes it easy to forgive that SRAM doesn't offer multiple upshifts the way Shimano does now.

My wife's bike is full XTR (10spd) drivetrain with XTR brakes. I've also ridden Shimano for a long time at many component levels on my own previous bikes. Their stuff works well, too. No complaints with the function of it at all. I don't like how you have to change the top covers on the shifter completely if you want to combine clamps to reduce clutter on your handlebars, and I don't like how Shimano has gone through many iterations of this over the years.

My road bike has a hodgepodge of parts. I have a Shimano road crankset, mtb hubs, mtb rear derailleur, road front derailleur, and mtb cassette on that bike with Gevenalle levers (microshift shifters and Tektro brake levers) and Avid BB7 brakes. I don't like that Shimano uses different cable pull for its road and mtb groups post-9spd. I like that SRAM does, which lets you use mtb derailleurs with drop bar shifters. I like the smoothness of Shimano's road shifters, but I hate the fact that the brake lever is also a shifter on their mechanical groups. I prefer how Campy and SRAM handle it.

I like Shimano's crankset attachment setup, but I hate that Shimano refuses to support fatbikes and direct mount chainrings. I like that SRAM supports direct mount chainrings and fatbikes, but I hate their wavy washer setup. I like Race Face's CINCH system, but don't care for their bearings.

I like cool new innovative tech, and the new electronic grouppos feed that. But the more I think about it, the more I dislike the idea of electronic groups for my own use. Too many questions there, mostly surrounding the proprietary nature of the batteries, wires (for Shimano), and computer interface.

I've only scratched the surface here, too.


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## chrisclifford (Mar 24, 2014)

SRAM is definitely more innovative, but that's not always a good thing. In recent years their quick releases have forced the consumer to become the guinea pig and they've had to update a lot of their products for relatively major issues (the one that comes to mind is when the original elixirs had the bleed port on the throw adjuster and couldn't hold a bleed). Shimano lags behind SRAM for sure when it comes to releasing new products but once they release something it generally works and requires less maintenance. SRAM also creates a ton of new standards (XD driver, Boost hubs, etc.) when they release new products, although as I write this I remember Shimano's centerlock rotors which are the bane of my existence...

SRAM brakes are awful. There's simply no other way to say it. In fact the Avid name was discontinued because of it's "reputation" (told to me by a SRAM rep a Sea Otter). Well the Guides are barely better. I know they're from Chicago, but here in California we actually have mountains and Guides fade on even moderate descents. I recently borrowed a friend's steel hardtail and took it on trail with just over 2000 feet of elevation change. Halfway down I stopped at a creek crossing to cool off the brakes. Sometimes they'll pull all the way to the bar without even locking the wheel if you run your levers close to your grips. I'm not kidding. They are awful. I hate them.

SRAM shifting is arguably better than Shimano and their drivetrains are usually lighter but they're also higher maintenance which is why I don't use them. Across the board SRAM stuff tends to weigh less and they are more willing to use carbon fiber (X0 cranks are carbon, they make mechs with carbon hangers, carbon wheels, I don't think Shimano makes anything out of carbon). I don't know whose chains are "better," but I do know that SRAM's powerlink absolutely destroys that dumb little pin you have to push into Shimano chains, although about 3 weeks ago Shimano announced their own quick release chains so I'll probably start using their chains now. 

I also like that Shimano makes a DH specific groupset, Saint (2 groupsets if Zee is included). I think that's a market that's overlooked, and DH riders do have specific needs, especially when it comes to brakes, and Shimano does a good job filling that market niche. I'm a Shimano guy, but if I was worried about weight I would probably run a SRAM drivetrain. You couldn't pay me to buy SRAM brakes though, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Does Shimano shift okay if a little wet, in case of some scattered rain clouds? I'd try to test myself but I live in SoCal... a rare coincidence to be out and rained on. I know my stock X01 SRAM drivetrain shifts poorly when wet. Usually downshifts relatively instantly, with up to a 1.5 second pause when upshifting, but in the rain it downshifts as slow as it upshifts. I sometimes had to click a 2nd time to see if it worked at all, which helped encourage the chain over. I know I can click 3-4 times upshifting (releasing cable, to go to a smaller sized cog) pedaling a fast enough cadence to clunk the engagement on my hub, when the chain finally moves. I actually wonder if the slow shifting directly results in the clunk in my hub's engagement* (not talking about the chain clunking into place, which isn't as annoying on X-Glide stuff). The upper pulley is as close to the cogs as possible without causing clearance issues at the 36-42 tooth cog.

Oh and Chris, you need active airflow to cool down brakes. Stopping in the woods for a short while does nothing really. That's like expecting a grill to cool down enough to touch after cutting the flame for 5-10 mins. I also learned this on Avid/SRAM brakes riding down 1600' of elevation in a mere 20 mins, through lots of chunk that I basically had to drag brake through in order to ride the lines that my skill and bike (also a hardtail) could handle.

* Clunking with SRAM is happening on Roval Traverse hub with DT internals (my E29's stock wheelset). Switched my Easton hub, which I once criticized for clunking, over to a new bike I built from the frame up with Shimano, and I don't even notice any clunking. Hmm... I doubt I started to soft pedal when shifting on that bike; I ride at similar intensity on both.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I have not found wetness to affect any manufacturer's drivetrain parts' shifting quality.

Mud, OTOH, is an equal opportunity screwer-upper.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

chrisclifford said:


> they are more willing to use carbon fiber (X0 cranks are carbon, they make mechs with carbon hangers, carbon wheels, I don't think Shimano makes anything out of carbon).


Shimano has probably a dozen carbon wheels (Dura Ace in 4 different rim depths, clincher/tubular of each, and multiple XTR models), carbon derailleur hangars on Dura Ace/XTR, carbon shift levers on Ultegra/RS785/Dura Ace/XTR, carbon brake levels on Ultegra/RS785/Dura Ace/XTR, but definitely less than SRAM. If you want to get nitpicky, they also make carbon soles for their cycling shoes and the carriers on their Dura Ace and XTR cassettes are carbon.



chrisclifford said:


> I also like that Shimano makes a DH specific groupset, Saint (2 groupsets if Zee is included). I think that's a market that's overlooked, and DH riders do have specific needs




SRAM makes three DH groups. X01 DH 7spd, X01 DH 10spd, and X0 DH.


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## chrisclifford (Mar 24, 2014)

Varaxis said:


> Oh and Chris, you need active airflow to cool down brakes. Stopping in the woods for a short while does nothing really. That's like expecting a grill to cool down enough to touch after cutting the flame for 5-10 mins. I also learned this on Avid/SRAM brakes riding down 1600' of elevation in a mere 20 mins, through lots of chunk that I basically had to drag brake through in order to ride the lines that my skill and bike (also a hardtail) could handle.


I didn't stop to let them cool down, I submerged them in the creek. I thought that was implied when I said I stopped at a creek crossing. My mistake, but after the dunk in the water they were howling but were fading less as well!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Oh, LMAO. Didn't think that because I'd be worried about it warping by cooling it relatively unevenly like that. Guess that's better than needing to go from 1-finger-braking to fully gripping the lever to the bar, to get sufficient braking power.

Back to the drivetrain discussion. I bet some will have to prefer Shimano, to get their bike's FS system to work well enough, now that SRAM stopped making any FDs, even for their road/cx disciplines.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Varaxis said:


> Oh, LMAO. Didn't think that because I'd be worried about it warping by cooling it relatively unevenly like that. Guess that's better than needing to go from 1-finger-braking to fully gripping the lever to the bar, to get sufficient braking power.
> 
> Back to the drivetrain discussion. I bet some will have to prefer Shimano, to get their bike's FS system to work well enough, now that SRAM stopped making any FDs, even for their road/cx disciplines.


Pretty sure they only stopped for MTB. The video they made a week or two ago about it specifically said "goodbye to the *mountain bike* front derailleur". I don't think roadies, myself included, will be ready to give up a front derailleur any time soon unless someone releases a 15 speed cassette that weighs less than front derailleur + current sized cassettes. No way to accomplish the current gear range AND 1 tooth gear steps for the majority of the cassette without a front derailleur. 50/34x11-28 has 374% range with 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28 cassette.

Further evidence that SRAM is still doing front derailleurs for road, they just released a road group with a front derailleur in the last couple weeks:
https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-red-etap-front-derailleur

The GX group has a front derailleur option too.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks for the correction. I see now from further evidence. That's what I get for listening to other riders that rely on news sites that favor sensationalist writing styles, who only presented partial evidence such as going 1x in all disciplines.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Varaxis said:


> Thanks for the correction. I see now from further evidence. That's what I get for listening to other riders that rely on news sites that favor sensationalist writing styles, who only presented partial evidence such as going 1x in all disciplines.


1x is certainly gaining traction among all disciplines. Pretty much everyone I know is 1x on mtb and CX, but most roadies are still 2x10 or 2x11. With SRAM's 11spd mountain cassette you can match or even exceed that of a 2x10 or 2x11, but the steps between gears are too big for road cycling. Even 2 teeth between gears can be too much for road cycling, and the smallest step the SRAM 11spd mountain cassette has is 2 and most are 3 or 4.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

I am more familiar with the Shimano product line (road and mountain), that's why I go with them. My TD bike is a mix of Deore XT and XTR components. The DynaSys really shifts smoothly. The XTR shifters are very precise.

My LBS was doing a high end Yeti build for a guy with SRam components and I definitely liked the rear derailleur mechanism design. The cable routing and path from the sleeve to the mechanism was well thought out.

As for chains, I usually run SRam. Kind of odd huh?

Brakes, Avid BB7's all the way. I can always restring a cable out in the middle of nowhere.

But then again. SRam was supposed to give us hats after last Thanksgiving's Turkey Trot ride. Hm... They owe me a hat.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

shimano all the way.


shimano = shimano
something else = I hope it works as well as shimano

because here are the facts
----
you get something else, it is a game of guesswork if it's gonna 
be there when you need it most.

that -thing- you are doing and will fail at if your components bugger up

you get shimano, full stop: it's gonna work and work right


throw in all the random BS that happens and shimano always, 
ALWAYS, floats to the top of any pile'o'crap you can throw at your
2 dozen bikes and 24 riding styles


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I was playing with my shift levers in the garage, on my 2 main bikes (third is single speed and CX bike has Red DoubleTap). The SRAM felt made more for big strong meaty fingers, with firm resistances and large and well spaced levers. The Shimano shifters took significantly less force to click, very smooth feeling, but the levers are very low profile, hugging the bar, and the thumb switch was pretty slim for cable release/upshifting, but okay if using with trigger action.

Changed out the cable in both, because I wanted to run a SRAM left shifter as a dropper lever, and because my XT 10 spd rd ate my last cable. The Shimano changed out far far easily... less than 3 mins, without taking it off the bar or moving anything. Just pull out old and thread in new, replacing the port with a phillips head screwdriver. Felt like a F1 pitstop, how quick it went and off I was riding again. Had to pull the top off the SRAM and push the cable enough to get it angled enough to get a nail on it, to pull it out from under that torsional spring thingee, and reverse the process installing the new, which was a bit faster than taking it out now that I was more familiar.

Don't like DoubleTap really, especially how it hands the extremes of the cassette and how it sometimes downshifts the front when I land a bunnyhop. I'd run mtb shifter and brake levers if I could, with a non-drop bar.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

SRAM. I like the mountain bike shifters better and I love double tap on the road bikes. I'd run Shimano on a mountain bike if I had to...but I don't think I'd ever do Shimano on a road bike ever again. Just a preference thing...nothing bad about Shimano. I run XT brakes on one of my mountain bikes and really like them.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Was a Shimano guy for a lot of years......once SRAM went to a Trigger Shifter, I jumped to SRAM. Haven't gone back. Going on 10 years.

Brakes are another thing.  3 bikes in the garage are XT, 1 is X.0 Trails, soon to be XT.

Then again, I ride the SS most often, so XT brakes, SLX cranks(king BB works better with Shimano) and KMC chain.


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## johnD (Mar 31, 2010)

shimano here as well , XT M8000 group. the only thing sram on my bike is the rockshox.


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## 595978 (Jan 6, 2012)

Hello, I have already put in some input on this subject, but want to bring to light the last two years of sram brakes. Yes shimano figured out how to make great hydraulic brakes first, but with the introduction of sram guide and db line of brakes definitely equal if not better. More power and modulation and a better brake lever, can be used in cold weather, just my observation. I have always had shimano and just in the last year switched thanks Matt.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Something about the feel and defined 'snap' of a SRAM X0 shifter...

Been riding 11-sp XT M8000 all winter. Recently got some time on my X01 shifter. I just like the defined feel/snap of the SRAM shifters.

Brakes? XT all day long.


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## zahgurim (Aug 12, 2005)

Old bikes are all Shimano cranks/drivetrain, or Raceface carbon crankset running Shimano derailleurs.

New bikes are all Pinion based. Not a single Shimano/Sram part on them.


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## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

If we could get the innovation department of SRAM to work with the durability department of Shimano I think the mtb world would be a much much better place.

I don't personally subscribe to one company being better or worse because they all have good and bad products and differing features that suit different preferences.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

GRPABT1 said:


> If we could get the innovation department of SRAM to work with the durability department of Shimano I think the mtb world would be a much much better place.
> 
> I don't personally subscribe to one company being better or worse because they all have good and bad products and differing features that suit different preferences.


The new electronic shifting from Shimano is very innovative. I can't wait for it to reach the lower levels.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Shimano all the way for several reasons...

1 - Push/Pull on the trigger
2 - Multi release on the trigger on XT/XTR
3 - Rapid Rise when my thumbs were buggered made life a lot easier on them.
4 - Prefer the ergonomics of most Shimano over SRAM

I'm on 9spd Rapid Rise on my main ride/FS right now, installed 10spd Shimano XTR on my HT to test and have found the shifting very smooth, not as hard as I remember it with older "normal" shift RDs, if they made a Clutch RR RD I would get it and stay 9spd, but for the Clutch alone and the fact that setup with the right shifter/RD combo, shifting is easy on my thumbs I will be moving to 10spd. Have found the on sale ZEE shifters to work absolutely awesome, unfortunately they only have single release triggers and that's something I really like, so it'll be XT or XTR for my personal stuff. 

All my rental/loaner runs Shimano 10spd Deore/SLX/Zee and I'd have no issue using that setup myself if that's all I could afford, very good for the $$ and very reliable.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I saw something very funny on Bikes Direct. Shimano had a video of their new(at the time)11 speed cluster. The bike had a Fox suspension fork-Motobecane does not offer Fox on any of their bikes. Shimano did not want a Rockshox(Sram) fork to be seen on their video.

I ride a bike that I figured out someone had left at work(being there at 2am was a tip off)-got permission from security to take it, so my opinion is not of a sram or shimano owner. What I like about sram, is you can go on their website and get detailed tech manuals for rebuilding their suspension forks. Not sure I would dare-I do not even like the idea of cutting my own fork-would be an expensive mistake if I cut it wrong.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

For me, it's Shimano brakes by a mile (Zees). 

In the drivetrain department, you can't go wrong with either. I like the ergonomics of the Shimano shifters, they just feel better to me. Shift quality is so close it's hard to judge but in my experience SRAM has the edge if we're splitting hairs. After that, it's options. SRAM gives you a wider range and usually lighter weight. Shimano might possibly last longer but it's really hard to prove one way or the other.

I have a bastardized setup. The stock Zee (Shimano) crank with a Wolf tooth 30t ring. KMC X11SL DLC chain but I ran a Sram chain before that. SRAM shifter. SRAM derailleur, and I used to have an X01 cassette but now I'm running the E13 9-44t which I really like a lot. 

I prefer Sram drivetrains but they're so close in quality and performance that it mostly comes down to who has the options that I want at the time. If I were buying new, it would surely come down to cost and options between the two and definitely not performance or durability because they're just too close.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Enduro-mtb.com - Grouptest: Six of the best disc brakes

No need to be rude, guy just asked for the source.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Please, just state what you like and why! This isn't the thread to start debating or refuting each other. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2016)

cerebroside said:


> Enduro-mtb.com - Grouptest: Six of the best disc brakes


enjoyed the article thanks.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

*SRAM Fanboy....*

But when it comes to chains and brakes.....Shimano, ese!


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

Cayenne_Pepa said:


> But when it comes to chains and brakes.....Shimano, ese!


I just realized I've never run a Shimano chain. Only SRAM and my current way overpriced DLC KMC. I'm guessing most chains are made by KMC and rebranded? My SRAM chain started skipping and I found one really stuck link and about 10 total that were tight. It's dusty where I live and I was using a wax lube. Not sure if it was the chain, my maintenance schedule, or the lube I was using. I've heard nothing but good things about the chain so I assume it wasn't the chain itself.

I think SRAM got themselves into trouble with the brakes by trying to be too innovative with unnecessary complications (taper bore and all of that stuff). Shimano took the opposite approach and produced a simple yet very well designed brake line. At least the new stuff seems to be more basic and better than the old.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2016)

AshevilleMtBiker said:


> Tell us what your favorable drivetrain system is. Do you prefer Shimano or SRAM drivetrains. Which and why?
> 
> I was planning to upgrade mine to Shimano SLX or XT, but my LBS's mechanic said he prefers SRAM. This got me thinking.
> 
> (Edit: the point of this thread is not to debate. There's enough of that. Simply state what you prefer and why. Please don't ruin it.)


Over the years i've had a bit of both, perhaps mixed at times and found them functional as long as maintained well enough.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

KMC chains are Shimano chains.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

Silentfoe said:


> KMC chains are Shimano chains.


As in the Shimano owns KMC (or the other way around) or KMC produces chains for Shimano exclusively? I guess I have run Shimano lol.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Sorry, neither owns either. KMC makes Shimano's chains.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

06HokieMTB said:


> Something about the feel and defined 'snap' of a SRAM X0 shifter...
> 
> Been riding 11-sp XT M8000 all winter. Recently got some time on my X01 shifter. I just like the defined feel/snap of the SRAM shifters.
> 
> Brakes? XT all day long.


Pretty much, on all counts. Even X1 feels better than 11-speed XTR shifters, it's a far more solid and reassuring "click." Being able to double shift with the triggers, and actually use the triggers with your index finger are useless options. On a bike, my index fingers have one job, and one job only...squeezing XT brakes.


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## acfsportsfan (Aug 13, 2004)

VTSession said:


> SRAM drivetrain and Shimano brakes for me.


Ditto for me too.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

I think if there's one thing we can all even remotely begin to agree on it would be SRAM drivetrain and Shimano brakes. Shimano makes good drivetrains and SRAM now makes pretty good brakes. If I were pushed and could only go with one manufacturer for both, it would be Shimano. Not only for their brakes but because I believe their drivetrains are just a small notch below SRAM while their brakes (especially if you compare 2 piston to 2 piston and 4 piston to 4 piston) are a bit better than SRAM's offerings. "Better" to me means power and modulation though the modulation is close, and of course reliability. I'm definitely not downing the Guides, they are very good brakes.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

You forgot to add IMHO, although don't think you think it's so humble :skep: To me those features are very worthwhile.


richde said:


> Pretty much, on all counts. Even X1 feels better than 11-speed XTR shifters, it's a far more solid and reassuring "click." *Being able to double shift with the triggers, and actually use the triggers with your index finger are useless options.* On a bike, my index fingers have one job, and one job only...squeezing XT brakes.


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## phattruth (Apr 22, 2012)

I've ridden Sram, Suntour, Sachs and even Pauls and nothing has the same feel or quality as Shimano.

Unless they go out of business, I'll be riding them till the end.


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## tigerteeuwen (Jul 29, 2014)

Shinamo on every bike I've owned, would love to try out a sram grip shift on my XC bike though. 


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

I think having Sram as a major player has made Shimano better, and we win on the consumer side. I'll run shifter/derailleur from either house, but will ALWAYS run Jagwire pro cables and housings for the set-it-and-forget-it reliability. I prefer the rivet pin on Shimano chains to anybody's quick link. I'll buy whichever cassette is priced better at the time but if it's even money I'll take the Shimano. 

I don't have anything with a Sram or Shimano hub set right now ( Pacenti, Mavic, Roval, and Hope/Stan's for wheel sets). 

I run Shimano dual-control on my fat bike instead of twisties. Awesome for the application.

I'm the guy who's never had a problem with Avid brakes...maybe 5 different sets. That said, I bought XTs for this last build and like the lever feel a lot.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Silentfoe said:


> Sorry, neither owns either. KMC makes Shimano's chains.


The box on my last Shimano chain said made in Malaysia. Does KMC have any factories there?

Jagwire LEX housing is great, but Shimano SP41 matches it in performance and the street prices are about half as much. SRAM makes throwaway-tier cable housing, compared to these 2.

I also prefer the Shimano rivet, at least for single-speeding. No weak link gives me the option to just grind down the drivetrain until something gives, as I believe it's pointless to replace chains every 2k miles on a singlespeed. On a regular drivetrain, the quick connect link is pretty convenient for doing the old glass jar + mineral spirits cleanse once in awhile, to help keep things clean.


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

someoldfart said:


> I also cracked an XO crank.


How and where do did you break it?? How old was it?


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

Curveball said:


> The new electronic shifting from Shimano is very innovative. I can't wait for it to reach the lower levels.


 Once they make an XT level electronic, they are gonna blow a lotta minds. The biggest thing limiting Di2 Mtn sales is the price


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## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

The crank was about 6 months old. The bike developed a creak on a trip to Moab. Dry weather. Can do that but I could not cure it when I got home. Different pedals, pulled all kinds of parts off to clean and relubricate, added spoke tension. Serviced the clutch, swapped pedals finally I could make one side creak by pedalling one legged. Swapped cranks from the other bike and ir went away. Pulled off the crank boot and found a small crack in the carbon at the pedal insert. It was warranted but they had no replacement so I was compelled to purchase a Next SL.


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## font9a (Jul 4, 2004)

I have two bikes with X0 and two others with XTR. My newest bike has XTR M9000 1x11, and I think it's the smoothest and most elegant, yet. My XO on my dirtjumper is using a 1x9 SRAM Red road cassette which is really sexy. My previous Maverick Durance had vanilla XO (when it was SRAMs top of the line mountain groupe) with Shimano cassette…. Lots of mixing and matching of top-of-line components. (Some Raceface Carbon LPs and eThirteen cranks in there, too.)

In my experience, XTR tends to be a little smoother and a little more durable. When new the SRAM was precise and just "felt" more solid… but it didn't hold up quite as well. The clicky feel of the XO shifters is still there, but the precision is not as good as new. With the XTR, even some of my 15-year old XTR stuff with new cables feels absolutely amazing. 

Bottom line: you can't go wrong with either groupe. It's going to come down to preference. I chose XTR 1x11 for my last drivetrain because I didn't want to convert my rear Chris King ISO disc hub to SRAM XD– Shimano 1x11 will fit on a standard freehub. I'm happy with my choice even though the new SRAM Eagle looks pretty trick.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

I like SRAM cause you can mix and match so much stuff, but I'm just getting kinda old fashioned nowadays and my new bike has a full XT 1x11 groupset. Not the lightest by any means, but nicer than my older mixed XTR/X0 setup and seems pretty solid so far!


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## mca90guitar (Apr 2, 2015)

never used sram, running the xt 10speed cassette, xt shifter and xt RD and really like them, shifting feels good, love that i can shift 2 up and 4 down. RUn a race race chain ring though


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## mca90guitar (Apr 2, 2015)

LyNx said:


> You forgot to add IMHO, although don't think you think it's so humble :skep: To me those features are very worthwhile.


double shift is great and I like having the option of using my index finger or thumb to shift. Smart design IMO


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

I use Shimano XTR and have been very pleased on the whole. Performancewise, the groupset still runs as smoothly as it did when new. The only issue I have with XTR is the oxidation of magnesium components such as the brake master cylinders. Although this issue is only cosmetic, still would have expected better. Part of me would rather have aluminium instead at the cost of a few grams if it saves me explaining to ppl why my brakes look so rough compared to the rest of the bike 

Regarding warranty, it takes ages ( > 2 months ) where I am so I haven't bothered yet. You have to hand in the defective parts to apply for waranty and it must be done through your LBS which means many weeks with a brakeless bike. I'd much rather they made the application following an inspection but leave you with the defective parts to use until the replacements arrive but they don't which I think sucks. It's a great way to put ppl off exercising warranty.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

LyNx said:


> You forgot to add IMHO, although don't think you think it's so humble :skep: To me those features are very worthwhile.


It's not really just my opinion, since that's the design philosophy that SRAM is following.

Look at just about any pro rider and look at where their index finger is.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yes, because Pros pay for their stuff and the rest of the market is made up of only super talented riders,not your avg every day weekend warrior :skep: That's just about the most assinine comment you've made yet. So SRAM does it, Shimano doesn't, they've been around longer, so does that make themnot right? ut:



richde said:


> It's not really just my opinion, since that's the design philosophy that SRAM is following.
> 
> Look at just about any pro rider and look at where their index finger is.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

c8stom said:


> You have to hand in the defective parts to apply for waranty and it must be done through your LBS which means many weeks with a brakeless bike. I'd much rather they made the application following an inspection but leave you with the defective parts to use until the replacements arrive but they don't which I think sucks. It's a great way to put ppl off exercising warranty.


I'm thinking that if the brakes are faulty to the point you need warranty replacements, THEY MIGHT NOT BE SAFE to leave on the bike. "...leave you with the defective parts to use until replacements arrive..." Really?


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

SRAM exclusively for 10+ years now. I used to run a mix of Shimano/ SRAM before that with grip shift and XTR/ XT. Ive run everything from Suntour XC and Superbe Pro to Shimano, Shimano SRAM mix. 
Now I'm all SRAM starting with XO and X9, XX and now XX1. Well except for my Campy Record 10 spd on my road bike. I like the consistency and speed of the SRAM shifting, the positive clicks, ease of maintenance and durability. 
I'm totally on board with the Guide brakes; running Ultimates and RSC's. They're the best brakes I've used to date by far for power, modulation and service. I still have a set of XX brakes, that have been trouble free. I did find that the XX brakes worked best with steel backed sintered pads. They sucked bad with aluminum/ organic. 
I do deflect on cranks and I'm running a couple sets of RF Cinch/ Next and so far the BB's have been fine but I'll upgrade bearings if needed. 
I also like SRAM because they treat me well and make it easy and more affordable for me to run their components with their industry ambassador deals.
Edit, I almost always have run Shimano FD's with the SRAM kits.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

MOJO K said:


> I'm thinking that if the brakes are faulty to the point you need warranty replacements, THEY MIGHT NOT BE SAFE to leave on the bike. "...leave you with the defective parts to use until replacements arrive..." Really?


As I said above the defect is only cosmetic but is still covered by the Shimano warranty.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I prefer Shimano and so should everyone else.


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

Ignore stupid comment made earlier


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

I have 2 x 10 set-up's on four different bikes, HT MTB, FS MTB, CX and road. Two are SRAM and two are Shimano. I can't make up my mind which I like better. LOL


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

richde said:


> Look at just about any pro rider and look at where their index finger is.


That's how I ride, it's how I was taught to ride MX, and I believe it's what most skilled riders would preach as a best practice. Doesn't mean it's the only way and I'm sure plenty of skilled/experienced riders don't ride that way.

For me though, Index finger only leaves the brake when muscling uphill on the SS. I find the Shimano 2-way lever annoying as hell and cut it off mine. It was getting in the way.


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## mixja (Jun 15, 2016)

Well, I've been riding XTR for a few years now, no real issues to be fair...
But now I want to convert to 2x10 instead of 3x9 so I've just bought a complete SRAM XX groupset... 
That 1099 cassette is a work of art...!! :eekster:

Will have it fitted by next weekend so quite excited to see if there's much difference...


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## blekenbleu (Aug 17, 2016)

I prefer SRAM BB7, grip shifters, 1:1 9-speed RD, 10-speed 11-36T cassette ratios, short cage RD supporting 1x 11-36T.
I like Shimano's Shadow cable routing, rapid rise XT RD, except for obligatory trigger shifter...
I hate how hard it is to find quantifiable tabulation of differences among equipment levels for either brand (e.g bushings vs bearings, stainless vs titanium, strength vs weight)


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

I prefer Shimano because I'm brainwashed and I've never had a chance to try SRAM.

Many moons ago, it seems... Shimano was all there was. Then the Germans had to try to outdo the Japanese like they always do.

You know... I really liked my Hondas and Acuras in the 90s. But my 2007 GTI was probably the best grown up hot hatch* I owned. You gotta hand it to them. They know how to pull it off. 

My LBS guys are similar. They seem to favor SRAM.

I was actually against SRAM a little while back because their shifters were push/push only (I think?). Shimano did that in the late 80s, early 90s, but after that it was all pull trigger, push thumb. As you know, the recent stuff is dual action. I started off with my old habits of pull/push, but now I've adapted and assimilated to push/push mainly to keep a brake finger on call at all times. So I could move over to SRAM... maybe... I think their clutch mech seems like a better design.

*Actually the Germans did it first. Then the Japanese did it cheaper and better.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

Varaxis said:


> The SRAM felt made more for big strong meaty fingers, with firm resistances and large and well spaced levers.


Germans.



Varaxis said:


> The Shimano shifters took significantly less force to click, very smooth feeling, but the levers are very low profile, hugging the bar, and the thumb switch was pretty slim for cable release/upshifting, but okay if using with trigger


Japanese.


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## jimw (Aug 10, 2004)

LyNx said:


> You forgot to add IMHO, although don't think you think it's so humble :skep: To me those features are very worthwhile.
> 
> 
> richde said:
> ...


+1 for Shimano multi-release (which is the feature where you can drop 2 cogs in a single push)! I use that feature ALL THE TIME. With 1x, I can't imagine ever going back to SRAM without that feature. Most areas I ride have lots of punchy short steep climbs followed by immediate steep downhill, so being able to drop 4 cogs with 2 pushes is awesome, vs. 4 pushes with SRAM - that adds up more than you might think on a long ride.

The only real legitimate complaint I've heard about this multi-release feature is that in really rough terrain, you can accidentally drop 2 cogs when you meant to only drop 1. I think this is not well-known, but with their Saint 10-speed shifter, Shimano specifically made it so that the "pull" option on that trigger (the other "useless" feature mentioned above) would ONLY drop 1 cog, due to feedback from DH riders, as opposed to 1 OR 2 cogs when pushing. I even find that sometimes I use my thumb for that when I'm on a really rough DH run and want to drop one cog, and my index finger is busy holding the brake lever, by wrapping my thumb under the trigger and pulling back. I had the Saint shifter and initially didn't even realize it supported this till I saw this post:



hkenshin said:


> It was an xtr exclusive for 9 speed, xt, saint, xtr for 10 with a caveat: saint only has it on push&push, but not trigger. This is apparently on purpose as some DH guys like the precision of 1 at a time and shimano listened to their input. I am not sure about zee or the revised Slx, the 1st gen 10 speed didn't have it.The saint and xtr feel much less plasticky than xt. This doesn't mean xt is less durable, it's just the coating, all 3 have metal levers. There is much less difference in lever feel and action between the 3 than on 9 speed, where xtr was clearly on another level. Saint had slightly longer levers and more texture than xtr and weighs 10-15 grams more. Xt I believe is 35g more. I went with ispec saint after trying all 3.


In the 10-speed world, this feature (push drops 1 or 2 cogs; pull only does 1) was only on Saint. I recently picked up an XT 11-speed shifter, and it turns out they have adopted this feature there as well... I would assume XTR as well.

For brakes, Shimano Saint all the way. With resin pads. Insane power and modulation. And no turkey gobble rotor noise.

I've used Avid brakes and SRAM drivetrains in the past too, and have always gotten way better performance out of Shimano. IMO, YMMV and all that.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

l'oiseau said:


> I prefer Shimano because I'm brainwashed and I've never had a chance to try SRAM.
> 
> Many moons ago, it seems... Shimano was all there was. Then the Germans had to try to outdo the Japanese like they always do.
> 
> ...


You know SRAM isn't German right? They did buy up Sachs years ago, but they are based in the US and have been since they started making roadie/tri stuff in the 80's...

Me I'm a Shimano guy, nothing against SRAM, haven't used their mtb stuff since the mid 90's, but always preferred shimano, and only recent stuff is their road stuff, which I really don't like.
I wouldn't mind trying eagle, but the $$$$.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Silentfoe said:


> Honestly I think they both work exceptionally well. I've owned bikes with both at the same time and the only thing that was difficult was remembering how to use the triggers. It took me all of 1 minute to figure it out and never bugged me again. Pick one and go with it. You'll be happy.


This ^^...I have XX1 on my two mountain bikes and I have Shimano XT 11 speed on my inner hardtail that is my de facto "road bike". They both work great and I have zero issues bouncing back and forth between them.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I finally have an honest SRAM 1x11 setup on my new bike, X01 cassette and derailleur and X1 shifter. I have two 1x10 setups that use shimano 10spd cassettes and SRAM derailleurs. The main reason for this was as an aggressive rider and racer, I simply don't need the ginormous gearing that the 1x11 setups provide, but since I was building a new bike I wanted it to have more modern parts that will be around for a little longer AND I was trying to keep weight down because it's an XC race bike. To that extent, SRAM's 1x stuff is significantly lighter. Shimano's 1x11 cassettes are pretty heavy comparatively and SRAM simply outclassed them with the XD driver and a new way to fit more gears on the back and do it while saving weight. I love shimano refinement usually, but SRAM is ahead in the drivetrain department IME. Then add to that the fact that Shimano doesn't make any cranks along the lines of XX1 or Next SL. Currently, I've been trying to kill two older X9 derailleurs for a few years, these have also come a long way from the stuff SRAM used to sell, which was rebadged Sachs stuff. Possibly if/when I ever kill one of these, I may upgrade that bike to 1x11 with a driver, cassette, derailleur and shifter, but it's an expensive proposition at the X01 and higher level. Not so bad for a new bike, but when you have a lot more invested that doesn't need changing, kinda hard. 

I love my SPD pedals and Shimano brakes. I feel that shimano rarely releases anything that hasn't been tested and gone over many times to ensure it'll perform. Not everything they do has always been a home run, but compared to the vast amount of components on the market and from the past, they are usually a solid choice and will often outlast much of the stuff that tries to undercut them. 

I don't know what shimano's plan is, they seem to be trying to push the Di2, but the 1x11 from SRAM works so well and cuts the weight down, so shimano should be thinking about carbon cranks and some sort of evolutionary change for the rear, but IDK if they will be that radical. 

Avid brakes? Hell no. 

SRAM has truly come a long ways from the old days of ESP 9.0 derailleurs snapping, b-tension rings snapping, and so forth.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

mik_git said:


> You know SRAM isn't German right? They did buy up Sachs years ago, but they are based in the US and have been since they started making roadie/tri stuff in the 80's...


Engineered and manufactured in Germany, no? Using the old Sachs resources?

Where a company is hq'd is becoming irrelevant these days.

At any rate, I've seen their "German Engineering" pitch as being used as a selling point.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

They do some R&D in Germany, don't think they actually make anything for production though. SO I guess engineered in Germany is right, but not manufactured.
edit do they make eagle stuff there? maybe

Funny, they were originally grip shift (and I guess SRAM), then they bought up all the companies and they are all still called what they were, zipp, RS, avid etc... but the drive train is sram, you'd think they call it something else (even retain the sachs name for it) to keep in line with the other stuff. Just seems weird to me.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

I think they make a fair deal in Germany, that's why it is so expensive. I've tried to find a confirmation, but I can't. I did see they make some of their low-end stuff in Asia, which isn't surprising.

Either way, Schweinfurt is their drivetrain center, looks to be R&D/engineering but maybe they have some manufacturing there too. It says that on their website but this article shows different:

Inside SRAM - Pinkbike

IMO, all the interesting stuff from SRAM came after their merger with Sachs i.e. the German era.

My posts earlier are not meant to demean Japanese or German product engineering - but they both have an air, or feel to them, that you almost know before you know where they came from. It's very much driven by the auto industry. But these days, everything is designed and built everywhere, so it's hard to tell. The Japanese and the Germans are known for keeping a high degree of their engineering and manufacture in their products though. It's slowly been expanding, but not a lot.

A lot less parts in the bike industry, so perhaps easier to control but cost must force them into cheaper labor sources. Labor is very costly in Germany. They actually respect their skilled labor... something we once did in the US.


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

I like SRAM for function/feel, Shimano for prices and availability. 

I'm very happy with my new 1x11 GX, but I find Eagle silly looking and priced beyond my reach anyway.

I also find Shimano's option to run Di2 2x11 with a single shifter very appealing.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

l'oiseau said:


> Engineered and manufactured in Germany, no? Using the old Sachs resources?
> 
> Where a company is hq'd is becoming irrelevant these days.
> 
> At any rate, I've seen their "German Engineering" pitch as being used as a selling point.


For quite a few years after their merger, they rode the "Sachs train", simply rebadging all of the Sachs stuff. Those "alien" series derailleurs? Those were Sachs. The grip-shifters from that point on? Sachs. Chains? Sachs (some were still stamped Sachs long after). A lot of this stuff wasn't spectacular either, it took a long time before SRAM actually produced anything that I would identify as uniquely SRAM, but like I said above, they've gotten past that. Back in the day there were lots of quality and engineering issues, not just sloppy gripshifters (where it all started). It's truly one of the more impressive and significant turn-arounds, going from a "me too!" company with most stuff being a few levels below Shimano, to driving the market with 1x drivetrains.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Srim-ano ^^

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## wfo922 (Dec 14, 2009)

Have both sram xx1 and shimano xtr 11spd 1x set ups. SRAM has a lighter feel at lever when shifting but the shimano seems more solid. If I'm in a rush I can confidently shift the shimano setup will standing and mashing gears were the sram I don't quite trust. I will say most sram stuff is way cool and innovative looking but there build quality is lacking. I have experienced many mfg short comings with their products. Reverb post with nicks in seal surfaces causing air contamination, bushings with Teflon surface pushed off from what looks like improper assembly, fork ano wearing off prematurely, tooling marks visible on stancions, rear cassette that has a cog that is just not right( goofy vibrations), oh and every avid brake set up that I've had pretty much sucked. My personal track record does not favor SRAM stuff, it's unfortunate because there stuff is so cool looking and forward thinking that I just want to like them.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I don't think any SRAM stuff is made in Germany. Maybe their prototype parts. Their mass produced parts come out of Taichung Taiwan.

If SRAM parts were to be produced in Germany...their prices would be even higher than they are now.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

RS VR6 said:


> I don't think any SRAM stuff is made in Germany. Maybe their prototype parts. Their mass produced parts come out of Taichung Taiwan.
> 
> If SRAM parts were to be produced in Germany...their prices would be even higher than they are now.


Sadly, I think you are correct.

Taiwan Factories Give SRAM an Edge | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I've found shimano cassettes to last longer before skipping, every chain that I've broken has been SRAM.

That being said, I use SRAM x0 grip shifter because shimano doesn't make one grr, which forces me to also use their Rd.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Another plug for SRAMs drivetrain superiority: Most high end hubs have soft drive-shells that get scored and torn by the cassette. I'm not talking about loose-gear cassettes from 15 years ago, but modern XT and others, they still score the hell out of the splines on these cassettes (that use aluminum drive-shells to reduce weight) and eventually you have to take a hammer to the drive-shell to punch out your cassette and the drive-shell is toast. This has been a problem for years for anyone who uses high end hubs other than Shimano. Problem completely avoided with XD drive-shell.


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## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Another plug for SRAMs drivetrain superiority: Most high end hubs have soft drive-shells that get scored and torn by the cassette. I'm not talking about loose-gear cassettes from 15 years ago, but modern XT and others, they still score the hell out of the splines on these cassettes (that use aluminum drive-shells to reduce weight) and eventually you have to take a hammer to the drive-shell to punch out your cassette and the drive-shell is toast. This has been a problem for years for anyone who uses high end hubs other than Shimano. Problem completely avoided with XD drive-shell.


Fair complaint but that only applies to XD driver cassettes. SRAM still make cassettes like Shimano's and those have the same issue. Shimano make freehub bodies in steel or titanium. I think SRAM non XD hubs use aluminum.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

Always been shimano shifting and brakes. Spent 2 weeks on sram recently. 

I thought the sram shifting was very precise. Upshift could climb several gears with one throw similar to shimano. Downshift was one gear at a time versus two with shimano. Definitely like the 2 down that shimano provides. There was a noticable lag downshifting with sram versus shimano. If I wasn't so used to shimano, I probably wouldn't have been bothered by it, but the small delay compared to shimano is also significant to me. Prefer shimano.

I've had shimano xt brakes for years. Always been very happy with them. The guide brakes also worked extremely well. I was impressed but the modulation feel I got from them. The thing was, I didn't like the ergonomics of the brake levers nearly as much as the XT. I know it seems like a ridiculous thing to focus on, but for my money, I'd go XT because the quality of the braking was pretty equal, but the lever ergonomics of them was better for my hands. I actually started to get sore wrists from twisting them when braking. Maybe could be adjusted away over time - seems reasonable to think that would be the case, but since the XT is dead on fit wise for me, that's the way I'd go.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Around 1994, the MTB world was down on Shimano. Shimano had become the Evil Empire, having ballooned to almost 100% market share for MTB drivetrain components after the demise of the original Suntour. I remember seeing magazine articles with titles like "How to Build a Shimano-Free Bike." This type of hatred for the market leader is often deserved. But looking back at the Shimano situation, I think a lot of it was driven by the feeling people had that Shimano was changing standards and sometimes losing backwards compatibility at a rate that people weren't comfortable with. For example, the original Rapidfire shifters, believe it or not, were absolutely panned by the elite, who swore by their trusted bar-top thumb shifters.

But a funny thing happened with Shimano. They honestly listened to their customer base. They got out the word that they were working to make the experience of riding a bike better. They didn't abuse their market dominance. They made sure that when the adopted a new standard, it was for a good reason. And their stuff just plain worked. I remember another article from back in the day, which expressed frustration with all of the hip CNC-machined and otherwise "innovative" product innovations from other companies. The author devised "The LX test": if your hip part doesn't work as well as Shimano LX, it isn't cool.

I have had nothing but the greatest respect for Shimano ever since about 1995. I wish all companies behaved like Shimano. They innovate for the sake of making their products better, not for the sake of innovation. They rarely release anything unless it's durable and ready for prime-time (The exception, of course, is XTR and Dura-Ace, which have always been bleeding-edge and often incompatible with the rest of the Shimano line up. Rule of thumb: Wait for technology to trickle to the Ultegra/XT level or below before buying in, and it will usually be excellent.)

And I really appreciate that Shimano makes sure their stuff works all the way down the lineup. I usually don't ride the highest end stuff. I ride SLX, Deore, maybe XT if it's close in price at the time. I've also put a ton of miles on a bike with 9 speed Alivio. I rode a set of 1996 Dura Ace hubs for 19 years without ever repacking the bearings, and a set of 1994 XTR hubs that are still going strong with maybe one bearing replacement. It all works, even the lower end stuff.

I appreciate, to a certain extent, what SRAM has done. It's good for them to exist, to keep Shimano from getting complacent. I have run an X7 direct mount front derailleur when I couldn't find a Shimano unit that was spec'd for the 44 tooth ring I was running at the time. The X7 shifted fine (although the X5 shifters/derailleurs that originally came on the bike were inferior). SRAM cassettes and X7 cranksets have worked fine for my family on a couple of bikes, again in situations where the SRAM spec worked better for what we needed.

But if given the chance, I will always go to Shimano, because not only do I like the performance and durability of their equipment, but I feel that Shimano has earned my loyalty over the past 25+ years.

That, and I really like dual-release, I like hubs that don't need a weird adapter, I like cassettes that don't cost a small fortune, I trust that their stuff has truly been durability tested, and I think the Shimano external bearing crank system with a threaded BB is how God intended cranksets to be.

But I like KMC chains.


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## rodfather450r (Dec 16, 2008)

Now that I think about it, all my past bikes have been shimano components! My mountain bike has SLX shifters/derailers and I've found them to be low maintenance and they function very well. Even my road bikes have Shimano components so I can't speak to the sram. I'm planning on buying a new bike next year and the one I've got my eye on has SRAM GX.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

someoldfart said:


> Fair complaint but that only applies to XD driver cassettes. SRAM still make cassettes like Shimano's and those have the same issue. Shimano make freehub bodies in steel or titanium. I think SRAM non XD hubs use aluminum.


True, but the point is, I can have light weight hubs now AND no issues with scoring and jamming the cassette, that's progress IMO. Although there are some good points about shimano hubs, their drive mechanism often leaves a lot to be desired, there are some significant advantages to systems used by DT, Onyx, Chris King, and others. There are more hubs than just Sram and Shimano and this problem does not exist today because people are using loose-gear cassettes, it's still happening because the system is imperfect and it happens with high-end cassettes like XT and XTR. To take this out of the system, saving weight at the same time on the cassette, allowing you to use lighter hubs, with no jamming cassettes, is pretty brilliant and well thought out. I'm definitely not a Shimano hater, I love the brakes, as described above I love the usually well-thought out and tested products, but I'm also realistic and I won't turn down progress except in rare cases where I feel the company has huge ethical issues.

GX is coming and this stuff is starting to trickle down.


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## Plummit (Jan 14, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Another plug for SRAMs drivetrain superiority: Most high end hubs have soft drive-shells that get scored and torn by the cassette. I'm not talking about loose-gear cassettes from 15 years ago, but modern XT and others, they still score the hell out of the splines on these cassettes (that use aluminum drive-shells to reduce weight) and eventually you have to take a hammer to the drive-shell to punch out your cassette and the drive-shell is toast. This has been a problem for years for anyone who uses high end hubs other than Shimano. Problem completely avoided with XD drive-shell.


^^^^ This times 1000. Can't wait to get a new set-up w/ an XD shell, and man do I miss those old steel freehub bodies. The cassette freehub shell interface is a problem and an unnecessary one at that. All that said, I have had luck using my chain whips to free the cassette with out destroying the shell. I then use a file to smooth out the splines as best I can. Shouldn't have to do any of it though.

I've had components from both Shimano and SRAM over the years. Both work well. As others have said, Shimano seems to engineer the hell out of their products before they release them into the wild. SRAM less so, but the warranty dept has been excellent in my experience. In a funny way it seems a bit like Apple vs Google in the smartphone market. Love my Guide Brakes. Modulation is absolutely incredible as is feel at the lever. I can actually feel any warp or deformation in the rotor at the lever. Remarkable. Power is excellent as well. YMMV.


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## RajunCajun44 (Aug 12, 2012)

dumb question ?? meh... not really... all I can do is express my opinion and experience... so here it goes...

Listing the brand preference

hydraulic brakes: Shimano
Mech brakes: Sram
Cassettes: Tie
Shifters: Tie
Chains: Shimano seems to last a bit longer, otherwise tie
Front Der. : For some reason Shimano seems kick Sram's ass in this dept.
Rear Der.: Tie
Pedals: Shimano
Cranksets: Tie, -- Srams carbon cranksets do seem to cost less
Wheels/Hubs: Both not that good. Many other wheel makers kick their asses.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

After buying 2 bikes with Elixer brakes, I'll never run SRAM brakes again. Just on principle. I made it my life's work to get them to stop honking, and I failed. Although on a good day with the planets aligned I could get them to sound like the ghost of a turkey wandering around in a haunted house, which was kind of cool I suppose.

I find that the ergonomics of Sram shifters to be spot on. Brake with finger, shift with thumb works best for me. Yeah I know you can push the back of the trigger to shift with Shimanos, but it's not like the nice flat SRAM push lever.

Regarding the issue of the cogs jamming into aluminum freehubs - I agree it is unacceptable. I expect parts on a high-end bike to interface properly. I'm running 6 individual cogs on a Hadley with titanium freehub, so problem solved for me. But the XD driver nicely solves that problem for the masses.

Also SRAM has led the way with 1x range, which I feel is more important that close ratios for mountain biking.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

RajunCajun44 said:


> dumb question ?? meh... not really... all I can do is express my opinion and experience... so here it goes...
> 
> Listing the brand preference
> 
> ...


I actually agree with most of this, but Shimano is behind the times without competitive carbon cranks. I've been beating the same XX1s to hell for almost 4 years on two AM bikes with plenty of park days, DH races, full on DH runs, and everything in between. If every ride was on South Mountain (not Desert Classic) I might just pause then, but I've ran these there and everywhere else and Shimano really needs to use their manufacturing power to make good relatively inexpensive carbon cranks. Shimano might have the better interface patent, but that has nothing to do with the fact that cranks from RF, FSA, SRAM and a few others now offer weight savings that Shimano can't approach, with no significant downside.

For regular non-carbon cranks, I think Shimano is better, with their hollow forged (stiffness to weight ratio) and simple pinch-bolt interface features, but they aren't pushing technology or development anymore in this category. They kind of got to the hollow-forged design (years ago) with the hollowtech II interface (a few less years ago) and kind of stopped there. SRAM was the first mainstream carbon cranks, and they work. RF has taken this to a new level with their aluminum spindle that saves even more weight, although it requires a 30mm interface, but that will be the future, because it offers a better stiffness to weight ratio.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

JACKL said:


> But the XD driver nicely solves that problem for the masses.


Considering the price of XD compatible cassettes, it's pretty hard to say "XD driver nicely solves problem for the masses", as I don't really much of masses ready to pay 400eur for something what last year, max 2, and can be otherwise bought for 50eur (if you go for high end one).



JACKL said:


> Also SRAM has led the way with 1x range, which I feel is more important that close ratios for mountain biking.


There's reason why Sram is pushing this. Once they will finally figure it out how to make properly working front derailer, and maybe one day even something at least somehow competitive to Di2, they might change their mantra and start pushing 2x again. :lol:


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

primoz said:


> considering the price of xd compatible cassettes, it's pretty hard to say "xd driver nicely solves problem for the masses", as i don't really much of masses ready to pay 400eur for something what last year, max 2, and can be otherwise bought for 50eur (if you go for high end one).


sram gx.

XD hub

It's also almost identical weight, XT 11spd of the same weight is around 400g. It's not just XX1 and X01 anymore.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> sram gx.


Getting there but $100+ is still more than I want to spend on a disposable item. Yes, I am a cheap bastard.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> Getting there but $100+ is still more than I want to spend on a disposable item. Yes, I am a cheap bastard.


With these bigger gears, they shouldn't be quite as disposable. I'm currently testing mine, but putting in the granny gear up front and turning and churning puts in more revolutions than having a bigger rear cog like we have now, which should also spread out the stress better. That's about the only advantage I see with Eagle, as the gearing is much too wide for me, but if I were to run with a 34 or 36, would probably get some impressive life out of the cassette I'd imagine.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

primoz said:


> There's reason why Sram is pushing this. Once they will finally figure it out how to make properly working front derailer, and maybe one day even something at least somehow competitive to Di2, they might change their mantra and start pushing 2x again. :lol:


Personally I don't want to hang any extra doo-dads on my bike if I can avoid it, and I don't want anything else in my life that needs charging. Maybe that comes from having all-electric lawn equipment in addition to everything else I need to keep charged.

That being said, I am going to try to avoid riding a Di2 bike. I do tend to be attracted to bright shiny electronics, and it looks pretty damn cool in the videos I've seen. I might get sucked in by the beeps and pretty lights. I do agree that if you need 2x range (I don't), it is the optimal way to go.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Free opinions....

Brakes. With Guides on the scene we can now disregard prior stoppers from Avid/SRAM, ok? Put it to rest, it's over, quit dragging up old stuff.

So, Guides are very good. Bleeding is more hassle than Shimano but turns out to be not that big of a deal once use to it. Guides don't have that silly chrome resivoir that manages to get in the way like Shimanos do. Durable, and work well and feel good in the hand. The clamps with the matchmaker stuff is really slick. Modulation - that is interesting. Like they say about guitar, tone is in the fingers. IMO same with modulation. I prefer that more on/off feeling of the Shimanos. Probably because my first discs were Hayes, which were very on off, I now that's how I like them. Locking up a wheel is something I like to do very easily. YMMV. For pure braking feel and power and bleeding I like Shimanos by a hair. For all other reasons I like the Guides. So I'd say it's a tie. Both are good. One thing I'd like to add about Shimano is that the later the model brake I buy, seems to be more free throw. I can get it to go away with the usual tricks but still comes back.

Shifter. The 11 speed xtr rear shifter is great. They cleaned up the accidental double downshift by making it harder to push works very well. The double down overcomes their narrower spread on their cassette. Derailure has been very good.

My only newer SRAM is the DH group with the 7 speed cassette. For DH, it's pretty perfect. 


Cassettes - here is the deal breaker. Others have outlined this above, best by Jayem, IIRC. Shimano is way behind. The 11 speed xtr cassette only has a 40t Max. Huge oversite. It's relatively heavier, and a cassette is way out their, far from your COG, so I find weight their makes a bigger difference. And, as already pointed out, the gouging of high end splined hubs is a major nuisance when you have to quickly move a cassette. Finally, the spacing on the xtr cassette seems a bit tight for mtb. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think SRAM has a more realistic ring to ring spread.

The final points have lead me to finally cave and buy XD driver for my King and a SRAM cassette. I'm hoping it works well with the rest of my Shimano drivetrain.

Cranks. Our rocky, pedally terrain eats cranks. I've broken carbon SRAM cranks. The plastic boots don't last long. I never looked at how much difference there is in weight. Hope not too much. Maybe I shouldn't look. My main ride right now has a pf92 and the Shimano bb and crankset has been bombproof and super easy to deal with. What's the difference between a ringless xtr and carbon SRAM crank?


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Miker J said:


> Free opinions....
> 
> Brakes. With Guides on the scene we can now disregard prior stoppers from Avid/SRAM, ok? Put it to rest, it's over, quit dragging up old stuff.


Sorry, not going to do it, when the topic comes up I will post about it. I understand teething problems that get ironed out. But IMO, they sold crappy brakes for years. I got burned twice, never again from them.


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## McKenzie (Sep 1, 2015)

Miker J said:


> Free opinions....
> 
> Brakes. With Guides on the scene we can now disregard prior stoppers from Avid/SRAM, ok? Put it to rest, it's over, quit dragging up old stuff.
> 
> ...


I run an XTR shifter and XT RD with a SRAM 10-42T cassette, works perfectly.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Jayem said:


> It's also almost identical weight, XT 11spd of the same weight is around 400g. It's not just XX1 and X01 anymore.


Cassette is still twice the price of Shimano XT 11spd cassette, and GX is not really XT level, which means price is still rather 3 times then just 2 times higher.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

primoz said:


> Cassette is still twice the price of Shimano XT 11spd cassette, and GX is not really XT level, which means price is still rather 3 times then just 2 times higher.


Link to $55 XT 11spd cassettes please?


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

I have a fat bike with XT cassette, rear derailleur. SLX shift/ brakes. It shifts unbelievably smooth and quiet. All you hear is the click at the lever, you don't hear the chain move on the cassette at all and it feels like it shifts almost instantly. I don't why it is so good. My other shimano drivetrains, while great were not this good. My XX1,X01 drivetrain is not as good and gets noisy very quickly. I don't spend time working on it, same cable over the 2 years. Changed to a KMC chain when the first wore out. 

Anyone that rides the bike always comments on how well it shifts.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

Hawg said:


> I have both and they are noticeably different.
> 
> I am more of a Shimano guy and the reasons are that I like a more subtle click from the shifter when I shift, but the biggest thing is that I can upshift a few gears at a time with my Shimano RD shifter. Can't do that with Sram.
> .


wrong

I can shift 11 gears at once with SRAM. Because Grip Shift. I hate the clicky clicky triggers from shimano and sram. Been using Gripshift for my rear der for 26 years now. I frequently find myself jumping 4 gears at a time, only GS does that. Though I realize the triggers do the job perfectly well for most.

Can't believe Shimano has been caught sleeping while Eagle has taken the high end market by storm. Can hardly find any high end bikes without Eagle. wish I could justify the expense, it just makes so much more sense for everything MTB. Though I am a Shimano man for my road bikes after having Rival, Red and 105 I love the precision of Ultegra over all those (and might switch to eTap some day). I will maybe go Eagle when they release a 12sp grip shift

as for brakes - have not tried the Guide. I love my XT, and not really liking these Level brakes.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Just picked up a full XT/XTR 11sp group to replace the XO1/X9 group on one of my bikes.
This will be the first non SRAM I've ridden in many years.
If this thread survives till I get a chance to install and critique I'll throw up an update with a review.


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## acfsportsfan (Aug 13, 2004)

I've been using SRAM drivtrain and Shimano brakes for the past 3 years......carry on!


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Jayem said:


> Link to $55 XT 11spd cassettes please?


As I wrote, GX is not XT level, so here's equivalent cassette for less then $55 
Shimano CS-M7000 SLX Cassette > Components > Drivetrain > Cassettes | Jenson USA


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

primoz said:


> As I wrote, GX is not XT level, so here's equivalent cassette for less then $55
> Shimano CS-M7000 SLX Cassette > Components > Drivetrain > Cassettes | Jenson USA


GX is approximately the same level as XT. MFR are specing them in teh same price range these days. Both are essentially 1 step below the 'pro level' ranges. There is the SRAM X1, but it occupies vanishingly small step between GX and XX1/XO1
Buyer's guide to mountain bike groupsets - BikeRadar

heck my wife's new Spec Rhyme has GX, and purchased on season close out price for $5k. That's XT territory for sure.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

BCsaltchucker said:


> GX is approximately the same level as XT. MFR are specing them in teh same price range these days. Both are essentially 1 step below the 'pro level' ranges. There is the SRAM X1, but it occupies vanishingly small step between GX and XX1/XO1


Well I guess it's not one step under "pro level" if there's another group in between, right?  Based on your logic, SLX is 1 step below "pro level", and XT occupies vanishingly small step between XTR and SLX


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

primoz said:


> As I wrote, GX is not XT level, so here's equivalent cassette for less then $55
> Shimano CS-M7000 SLX Cassette > Components > Drivetrain > Cassettes | Jenson USA


Well, the reason I used GX because the weight was about the same for XT. The SLX is somewhere in the 430g range. Don't think that's really apples to apples to compare GX with SLX when SLX is significantly heavier. Plus, SRAM changed their line-ups many years ago, again, not apples to apples. SRAM used to have 9.0 and 9.0SL, with 9.0SL roughly being the equivalent of XTR. They went above that with XX1, then X01, X1, etc., and they still have X9. Doesn't necessarily mean that X01=XT.


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## HELLBELLY (Jan 16, 2004)

*SRAM. I prefer the solid feel and audible "clunk" from SRAM shifting versus Shimano's light action.* :thumbsup: :devil:


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## nwmtb (Jan 3, 2004)

is it okay to like both ?


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I haven't used SRAM 11 speed because it was pretty costly to get the driver for my CK hub. I've got XT 11 speed and honestly don't care enough about shifting to favour one brand over the other. As long as it shifts smoothly and stays in gear I'm happy. IMO shifting from both has been pretty great for a long time and I no longer concern myself about it much. Both offer plenty of range for me as well so the 10t is not a big selling point for me. Tires, dropper, brakes and suspension are the issues I'm concerned with much more than shifting.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm also thumb only so I don't care if my finger can shift.


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## Averbuks (Oct 24, 2014)

Might as well add Fox to this competition since they own Raceface and Easton. Im sure Fox, Shimano and Sram make up 90% of the components market.


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## RajunCajun44 (Aug 12, 2012)

on a side note... (because there is some mention of mixing sram/shimano stuff).... I have a 2x10 hardtail, and I have no intention of going 1x10 on this bike... But my SRAM XX front der. never worked correctly... f-ing used to drive me beyond crazy... 

On a whim, I bought a $15 XT front der. (new) and now that 2x10 front shifting is absolute butter.... so it's an SRAM XX shifter on a shimano XT front der. 

for reference my rings are 42T/28T... and they are SRAM rings..


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

How about this? I prefer to have both SRAM and Shimano make decent stuff. While Shimano stuff is pretty much flawless when it comes out (usually...new XT brakes being a notable exception), SRAM is moving faster right now with innovations such as the 50T cassette which takes away any need for a front derailleur. 

For a while, when my demo bikes were all sold last winter, I was riding clapped out 8-speed Shimano XT shifters that really just didn't. I thought I would have a bit of a transition going from push-pull on Shimano shifters to push-push on the SRAM GX components on my demo bikes for this past year, but you know what...shifters that actually shift trump any minor differences in how they work. Yes, XT brakes/levers engage faster while SRAM Guides have more "modulation", but both stop and pretty well at that.

I'm excited that with two solid companies competing in the market, riders are the ones that win with better components and better pricing being offered by both SRAM and Shimano.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

primoz said:


> Well I guess it's not one step under "pro level" if there's another group in between, right?  Based on your logic, SLX is 1 step below "pro level", and XT occupies vanishingly small step between XTR and SLX


It's way more complex than thaty. SRAM also has X9 which is an XT equivalent too,a nd they have numerous nomeclatures at their pro level too. Nevertheless, the GX and XT parts have essentially equal quality price and performance, and are speced interchangeably at the same price point bikes.

OTOH, it is comparing apples and oranges in some ways too. SRAM offers some great features that Shimano doesn't offer at all, and Shimano have their own unique advantages over SRAM. I would not throw ether of them out of bed for eating crackers, even down to the SLX and X7 level. The mtn bikes I have bought happened to all haev SRAM by sheer coincidence, so I ended up with a lot of SRAM, and I would have still bought them if they happened to come with the equiv Shimano groups.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

And to further muddy the waters, Shimano has legitimate downhill/abuse component groups. SRAM does not. SRAM has some legitimate fatbike components, as well as some other companies like RF that use the same standards as SRAM and do the same, Shimano has left fatbikes high and dry.


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

Jayem said:


> And to further muddy the waters, Shimano has legitimate downhill/abuse component groups. SRAM does not. SRAM has some legitimate fatbike components, as well as some other companies like RF that use the same standards as SRAM and do the same, Shimano has left fatbikes high and dry.


This doesn't bother me in the least.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

l'oiseau said:


> This doesn't bother me in the least.


Ditto


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

l'oiseau said:


> This doesn't bother me in the least.


No problem.

I ride year round.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Jayem said:


> And to further muddy the waters, Shimano has legitimate downhill/abuse component groups. SRAM does not. SRAM has some legitimate fatbike components, as well as some other companies like RF that use the same standards as SRAM and do the same, Shimano has left fatbikes high and dry.


Thoughts on SRAMs DH7 "drivetrain"?

I know it's really only the shifter, cassette, and RD. My experience with it has been good.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Miker J said:


> Thoughts on SRAMs DH7 "drivetrain"?
> 
> I know it's really only the shifter, cassette, and RD. My experience with it has been good.


dunno, I've been beating the hell out of XX1 cranks for more than 3 years, plenty of DH, drops, races, etc., same with one of two X9s I've been trying to kill for the same amount of time. Their stuff holds up way better than 10 years ago, for sure, but they don't make dedicated DH/freeride/abuse component lines, like the shimano "complete package", many people try to save weight and run XC stuff any way, so it's hard to gauge.


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## IndecentExposure (Sep 25, 2006)

One makes fishing gear and the other makes bike components. 


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## Awshucks (Apr 14, 2013)

I recently set my bike up 1x9 from SS because someone gave a really nice 9spd x0 RD. I set it up with a twist shifter which i did not expect to like as much as i have. I absolutely love these x0 grip shifts. 

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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

I installed a 1x11 XT M8000 drivetrain on my Superlight with an XTR shifter.
Had to get the chainline just right but it shifts like butter compared to the XO-X9 combo it replaced.
I've been using SRAM exclusively on my last 4-5 mountain bikes and I think I'm a convert.
Smoother, soundless(relatively) shifts, and maybe I'm imagining, because I don't really pay much attention, cheaper?


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## Awshucks (Apr 14, 2013)

I have to admit I liked my xtr 10sp shifter way better than my wifes x9 shifter. But now i love my 9sp x0 twist shifter. 

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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Shimano because they have better - I mean they actually have front shifting.


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