# Frame jig plans



## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

I'm looking to build my own jig to do my first frame, but I think it'd be easier if I had plans I could follow for building the jig.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

look on instructables, extrapolate


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

Yeah, I checked on there, but I was hoping to find something more concise.


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## HomeGrownSS (Jan 18, 2006)

so you want someone to spoon feed it to you?
if you want exact plans for a fixture then just buy one, but if you want something that suits your needs then look at whats out there, and design one.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*That's the simplest one.*

There's a lot going on with a frame fixture. If you don't have the patience for the Dr. Welby (instructables) model, you should not attempt to build a fixture, nor probably a bike frame.

This is a hobby/business for people who like to build stuff, figure stuff out, and generally be huge geeks. If that doesn't describe you, you should just save yourself a lot of money and trouble and buy a fixture (or bike).

-Walt



f3rg said:


> Yeah, I checked on there, but I was hoping to find something more concise.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

I've taken a look at both Dr. Welby's, as well as this one, which I think I like a lot more. I'd perfer to spend my time and money on actually building frames, instead of designing and constructing a jig, but I don't mind having to put effort into it if that's what it requires.

Walt, I've sepnt many years designing/building speaker systems, ridiculous computer cases, etc., so I'm not afraid to get deep into whatever I'm building. Basically, I figured I'd save myself some effort designing a jig if there were some basic plans that I hadn't yet found, so that's why I asked.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Ah, I see*

I assume you wanted, like, a CAD drawing, or a technical diagram, or something? AFAIK, none exists that you could get for free.

In any case, if you've yet to build a frame, forget the fixture and just use the hockey stick method for a couple and see how it goes. If you like it, then you can do the fixture. And if you don't know what the hockey stick is, it's time to do more reading.

-Walt



f3rg said:


> I've taken a look at both Dr. Welby's, as well as this one, which I think I like a lot more. I'd perfer to spend my time and money on actually building frames, instead of designing and constructing a jig, but I don't mind having to put effort into it if that's what it requires.
> 
> Walt, I've sepnt many years designing/building speaker systems, ridiculous computer cases, etc., so I'm not afraid to get deep into whatever I'm building. Basically, I figured I'd save myself some effort designing a jig if there were some basic plans that I hadn't yet found, so that's why I asked.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

Well, I figure I'll design a Arctos-ish jig like the one I linked to, then do a breakdown of all parts and put it on my own site for people to follow, Instructables-style, but with better details.

As far as seeing if I like it goes, I'm far beyond that. Once I get an idea in my head to build something, nothing gets in the way of that. If I can spend 3 hours in sub-30° winds cutting holes in aluminum sheet with a hand-held Nibbler tool and thoroughly enjoy myself the whole time, then building a frame jig shouldn't hold me back.


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## Linnaeus (May 17, 2009)

A Bridgeport table and some simple V blocks and clamps can go a long way. I think that's the simplest way to start.

http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com...t-and-Fixturing/5117402_J7Xxm#308935202_3Gunh (not my photos)


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## lynd (May 19, 2006)

Walt said:


> This is a hobby/business for people who like to build stuff, figure stuff out, and generally be huge geeks. If that doesn't describe you, you should just save yourself a lot of money and trouble and buy a fixture (or bike).
> 
> -Walt


No truer words were ever spoken. (this I have discovered while building my first frame)


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

There are very detailed plans in the back of the Paterek Manual for a bottom-up jig. I built my first frames on something similar and they work quite well. If you don't want to spend the time designing and building something just buy Joe Bringheli's fixture. Lots of folks use it and there are a bunch of pages of improvements on the web.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm using a table from a Moore jig bore grinder and some MIC-6 tooling plate right now. It works, but I have to measure a lot before getting the geometry right. I thought I was going to be able to get an Anvil, but getting started cost more than I thought.


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

After having built two frames without really using a jig, I've learned a lot of what I would want in a jig. Before I built these frame what I thought I wanted in a jig is now different. IMHO, only after you build a few frames will you really know what you're really looking for in a jig. If you don't know what I'm saying, build a frame, and you'll see what I mean. 

And although I had aspirations of building a jig, I almost find it easier to build without a real jig. Remember, a jig doesn't make frames.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

I've built a couple of bikes without a jig, including a tandem. This was after working in a factory building many frames with production jigs. I'd have to say I don't think working without a jig helped me learn much about what I wanted in a jig, but it did help me appreciate the building process a bit more.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

f3rg said:


> I've taken a look at both Dr. Welby's...


That's me, and if you have any questions feel free to PM me.


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## doug fattic (Mar 11, 2010)

Fixture design and use seems to encourage a belief system similar to religion or politics. They are accompanied with strong opinions on how things should be done and everyone else's approach is wrong. I remember talking to Ben Serotta about fixtures back when he and I were just a single man shops. He said the enjoyment of designing and making them is part of the reason people want to become framebuilders in the first place.

Before, during and after I was learning to build frames in England in the 70's, I visited many framebuilders throughout that country. Most of their shops were equipped with just simple tools. Many of them used what they called a "measuring board" to build frames with. F. W. Evans - a bicycle retailer in central London that included a frame shop - wrote about why he thought this system (he insinuated he invented) was better than doing a full scale drawing in this advertising brochure printed in the late 30's. <http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/FWEvans-late30s/> I agree.

I brought the idea back with me to the States and have refined the design concepts ever since. Now I have them laser cut out of stainless steel with various bells and whistles to calibrate lengths and angles. There are some pictures of one here: <http://www.ukrainebicycletours.com/> I don't think their advantages are obvious by just looking at a picture. Of course to work well they don't have to be nearly as fancy as I like them. It isn't really difficult to make a simple one and where I would look for inspiration if I didn't want to buy something. Of course this design makes more sense for frames using a lugged bottom bracket shell.

This type of fixture allows me to 1. create and modify a frame design without any need for a full scale drawing or CAD (and I can hold a seat/seatpost and stem in the rider's representative position to know where to place the tubes), 2. check the accuracy of the length and angles of my miters and 3. spot braze the main triangle together. In my shop is also an Anvil Master and a Bike Machinery Hydra (the one Richard Sachs uses). If I could only keep one it would be this one. It is the most versatile and easiest to use.

One more thing abut the accuracy of fixtures. Unless it is a really expensive one (over $4000), you can't depend on them to hold the rear stays precisely enough for brazing so a rear wheel will perfectly center.

Doug


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

Welcome to MTBR! We're lucky to have someone with your experience add your input. Thank you. :thumbsup:


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## marks_bike (Aug 22, 2006)

I'm building my 3rd frame using the simple dr w. style jig. Here is a nice example of one in this thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=380315

So far it's this jig has worked fine for me.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

Thanks for that link, Mark. Shiggy's _Almost-a-Jig_ definitely looks like the sort of simplified thing I was hoping to work with. It also looks like it could be made to be collapsible, since my wife and I are already fighting over space in the (very tiny) shop. I also use C-clamps constantly when building speaker cabinets, and I think they'd work out pretty well for getting angles right; not as precise-in-seconds as a $3k jig, but I don't mind the extra time to get it right.


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## MDEnvEngr (Mar 11, 2004)

*Keep it simple at first!*

Numbers 15 and 16 getting layed out:


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bohemian_bicycles/sets/72157611893407414/










The first jig I ever designed and built, the plans are there. A few have built one.


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