# smoothing a new trail



## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

what's the best method for smoothing a new trail? it's not so rough it needs a bobcat but it's a lot to smooth by hand. i've got the line of the trail ridden in some so i thought maybe a small tiller would do the trick. it's only a mile or so long but i've got another six in the works.


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

I've only done trail finishing by hand using mostly McLeods and wide plastic rakes with the final compaction usually with the head of the McLeod or a tamper but usually the McL. You could rent (from Home Depot or from a friend in construction that might have one) a walk behind plate compactor and just run from one end to the other. Call some local construction companies and see if they would donate the use of theirs! If the do foundation and/site work, they should have one. Don't ask, don't recieve!


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## Bob W (Jul 6, 2004)

*Action Hoe*

If there are small ripples and high spots got to Home Depot or Hardware store and get a action hoe!!! Works great to plane dow irregularities and removal of small roots as such.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Bob W said:


> If there are small ripples and high spots got to Home Depot or Hardware store and get a action hoe!!! Works great to plane dow irregularities and removal of small roots as such.


why don't you just leave the small ripples, bumps, small roots (the trees use these too you know!)... it makes for a more interesting track as well... :thumbsup:

Could it be, that if all you build are smooth footpaths, then you encourage people to look elsewhere for a more interesting riding experience ...


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Hold a race....*



Megashnauzer said:


> what's the best method for smoothing a new trail? it's not so rough it needs a bobcat but it's a lot to smooth by hand. i've got the line of the trail ridden in some so i thought maybe a small tiller would do the trick. it's only a mile or so long but i've got another six in the works.


Get a bunch of your friends and hold a mountain biking crit doing a bunch of laps on the trail. It you do 200+ passes on the trail, it will burn in and smooth out....


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Ken in KC said:


> Get a bunch of your friends and hold a mountain biking crit doing a bunch of laps on the trail. It you do 200+ passes on the trail, it will burn in and smooth out....


Sorry but i disagree, you'll wind up widening the trail unless you hold it as a time trial.

A moto dirt bike would be handy for packing down trail. Borrow one from a friend and run it back and forth for a few hours.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

*Do the laundry, before you do the ironing.*



Ken in KC said:


> Get a bunch of your friends and hold a mountain biking crit doing a bunch of laps on the trail. It you do 200+ passes on the trail, it will burn in and smooth out....


I second this method. thats why we have suspension. I don't mean to be mean, but if you've got your drainage set, don't over think or over manage it, let it go, and after a season of riding you still feel a section still needs work, groom it then.
Like you said, You've six miles left to go, make good use of your volunteers and machine.:thumbsup:


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Shelbak73 said:


> I second this method. thats why we have suspension. I don't mean to be mean, but if you've got your drainage set, don't over think or over manage it, let it go, and after a season of riding you still feel a section still needs work, groom it then.
> Like you said, You've six miles left to go, make good use of your volunteers and machine.:thumbsup:


hmm i misread, i was thinking he was suggesting to hold an actual race.

It really doesn't take too long to pack down a trail, if you have a bunch of friends willing to ride it.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Skookum said:


> Sorry but i disagree, you'll wind up widening the trail unless you hold it as a time trial.
> 
> A moto dirt bike would be handy for packing down trail. Borrow one from a friend and run it back and forth for a few hours.


Dirt bikes chew the hell out of the ground, dig ruts, etc. Way overrated if buff single is what you're after.

I've used the rake end of a McCleod back and forth to buff things out. This will remove all the little rocks and allow the soil to compact. Rolling bike tires over time will do a great job of buffing out a trail as long as it is mineral soil.
Chop roots with the axe end of your Pulaski. On steeper pitches some times roots are the best thing to hold the trail together, but that doesn't sound like the type of trail you're talking about. 
Generally I'll leave large, solidly achored rocks alone as long as they aren't working their way loose. If it's obvious that they are going to pop out with use, I'll grub them out with pulaski and rock bar then fill in the hole.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

Geez! I think some of you guys ought to try mountain biking! I know cyclocross is fun and everything but they are so 07!  

And did you think to ask the tree what it thought about you hacking away at its roots?! 

Fat tyres are here to stay and they can roll rocks, roots bumps - they can even deal with loose rocks ZRM! :thumbsup:


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Electric Panda said:


> why don't you just leave the small ripples, bumps, small roots (the trees use these too you know!)... it makes for a more interesting track as well... :thumbsup:
> 
> Could it be, that if all you build are smooth footpaths, then you encourage people to look elsewhere for a more interesting riding experience ...


 The guy asked how to smooth trails. I have built lots of trails, some of them smooth and some not so and I was sharing my technique for finishing out a buff trail. You can make a buff single track very interesting without being technical. There is a place for buff, fast, swoopy trails. In fact, those types of trails are very popular.

There is also a place for tech trails so guys with 38 pound 7" bikes can justify their purchase but that wasn't the question asked. 

Trees can tolerate have a certain ratio of their roots chopped just like they can tolerate being limbed. I've removed lots of roots over the years (and left more than a few in the trail) and have never found that it killed or even harmed the tree. Feel free to argue that you like to have roots left because you like the challenge, etc of riding over them (although my experience is most people, even those with fat tires (as opposed to cyclcross tyres) go around roots and widen the trail, go figure ) but don't rant about how the poor tree is going to die because a couple roots where removed cause it ain't so.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

The guy asked how to smooth trails. I have built lots of trails. I have been riding mtb since fully rigid was the only option. I am not talking about technical. 

I guess my post was about the whole attitude of cleaning up nature. We ride there because we want to get away from our ordered, manicured existence. Once a track is sorted so that it won’t erode etc why not leave nature alone? If there are little rocks, sticks, roots, the track isn’t quite flat - well, that is nature. Don’t we have enough to hoe, hack and slash in suburbia? 

Where I sometimes ride there has been a proliferation of IMBA tracks that have perhaps not been built in the original spirit of the organisation. The result? Guys started selling their duallies to get hardtails, then fully rigid, then fully rigid SS, and a few put CX tyres on just to have some fun on these groomed dirt footpaths! Joey Klein came along once to do a seminar and to help one of the local trail care groups and most people were amazed at how rough and technical he suggested. :thumbsup: 

I well know how newbies wreck tracks by going around the simplest thing. If you think a B line/track widen might happen – put a rock/log there to encourage otherwise. I suspect you know this. 

Finally a word for the trees… if you cut off a finger from a healthy human, he won’t die… if that same human is under stress the possibility of complications rise… same with trees… our attitude of ‘well its only one little path…’ adds to the already stressed state of our enviroment …

Ps I ride a 26.5lb bike


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

lots of good suggestions and several have been tried in the past. the original trails that we ride were built by motorcycles and apart from being hard to maintain, they are pretty smooth. the newer trails we've built were bike only and it takes a while for them to get a good flow going. like years. the new trail i've built is on an area that was logged about 10-15 years ago and it's out in the middle of nowhere. there are lots of old tire ruts and stump holes. mostly they don't bother me but some places it pretty much sucks. and this trail is supposed to be a beginner trail (a fast trail for everyone else) so it needs to be somewhat tame. on new year's day i tried to do a time trial but only six people showed so we just did laps. it helped define the trail a lot but it still needs some smoothing. i was told there is a mulching machine that tills to a fixed depth that i may try to find. thanks for the input.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

*Maybe this?*

The Stihl Yard Boss:

http://www.stihlusa.com/multitask/MM55.html

I know the guys at PAMBA are using them to cut bench with. Can't find any photos on their website though. The Yard Boss is working well according to them.

Walt


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## sparrow (Dec 30, 2003)

Wow, I want their soil!


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Megashnauzer said:


> lots of good suggestions and several have been tried in the past. the original trails that we ride were built by motorcycles and apart from being hard to maintain, they are pretty smooth.


Just to be clear, i'm not suggesting you open this trail to dirt bikes just to smooth it, just using one to make short work of the pack job of the fresh tilled soil.


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## donwatts (Aug 1, 2006)

Has anyone actually used a plate compactor on a new trail construction?


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

zrm said:


> Dirt bikes chew the hell out of the ground, dig ruts, etc. Way overrated if buff single is what you're after.


 You're describing a dirt bike ridden by someone who is heavy on the throttle. You're also describing what happens to a dirt bike trail after heavy use.

Again i'm suggesting to use a heavy dirt bikes big heavy wheels to pack down a fresh trail, that's all....


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

sparrow said:


> Wow, I want their soil!


it's sand covered with a thin layer of soil.

the yard boss looks cool but i'm not forking out $300. i'll probably just rent a tiller and hit the rreally bad spots.


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## fully (Sep 14, 2004)

*very interesting*



Walt Dizzy said:


> ...The Yard Boss is working well according to them.


Tell us more :thumbsup:


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

zrm said:


> The guy asked how to smooth trails. I have built lots of trails, some of them smooth and some not so and I was sharing my technique for finishing out a buff trail. You can make a buff single track very interesting without being technical. There is a place for buff, fast, swoopy trails. In fact, those types of trails are very popular.
> 
> There is also a place for tech trails so guys with 38 pound 7" bikes can justify their purchase but that wasn't the question asked.
> 
> Trees can tolerate have a certain ratio of their roots chopped just like they can tolerate being limbed. I've removed lots of roots over the years (and left more than a few in the trail) and have never found that it killed or even harmed the tree. Feel free to argue that you like to have roots left because you like the challenge, etc of riding over them (although my experience is most people, even those with fat tires (as opposed to cyclcross tyres) go around roots and widen the trail, go figure ) but don't rant about how the poor tree is going to die because a couple roots where removed cause it ain't so.


I appreciate buff, machine made trails, mainly because they can be installed rapidly, and a trail is a trail, No arguement there, And you say many people like buff, swoopy single track, true! Budweiser is also the most popular beer in the US.
Thank God for micro-brews, Artisan crafted, sweet, tight, challenging, rough, hand built, flavourful "SINGLETRACK". I like the harsh, technical trails, climbing and descending, but I don't see where all trails should be built to suit me, do you? of course not! that doesn't mean all trails should be built for the lowest common denominator, sterile, safe "everybody" trails.
P.S. 
Wow! where do you live where "Most" people go around roots, widening the trail? Do you fall into the most catagory, for the sake of speed?


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Shelbak73 said:


> I appreciate buff, machine made trails, mainly because they can be installed rapidly, and a trail is a trail, No arguement there, And you say many people like buff, swoopy single track, true! Budweiser is also the most popular beer in the US.
> Thank God for micro-brews, Artisan crafted, sweet, tight, challenging, rough, hand built, flavourful "SINGLETRACK". I like the harsh, technical trails, climbing and descending, but I don't see where all trails should be built to suit me, do you? of course not! that doesn't mean all trails should be built for the lowest common denominator, sterile, safe "everybody" trails.
> P.S.
> Wow! where do you live where "Most" people go around roots, widening the trail? Do you fall into the most catagory, for the sake of speed?


Hmmmm, where in my post does it say that I think all single track should be buff and built "to suit" me? The question in the OP was how to smooth a trial. Smooth trails are appropriate in many places and for many people - fun. I state in my post that there is also a place for more technical trails so why the foam?

The comment regarding people riding around roots is an observation of trails in many areas, not just where I ride, that anyone with open eyes can see. As to my riding habits, out of respect for the land and respect for those who come after me, I try to stay on the tread and keep single track single.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

zrm said:


> Hmmmm, where in my post does it say that I think all single track should be buff and built "to suit" me? The question in the OP was how to smooth a trial. Smooth trails are appropriate in many places and for many people - fun. I state in my post that there is also a place for more technical trails so why the foam?
> 
> The comment regarding people riding around roots is an observation of trails in many areas, not just where I ride, that anyone with open eyes can see. As to my riding habits, out of respect for the land and respect for those who come after me, I try to stay on the tread and keep single track single.


Foam? generalizations? perhaps.... but I am in agreement with E. Panda. His suggestion was to leave the SMALL bumps and ripples, and you some how relate this to "Technical" and "38lb bikes with 7" and so on (*?*) My full-squishy is a whopping 25lbs with an incredible 4" of travel. I am also in agreement with E. Panda's theory on how to "encourage" noobs and others to ride obstacles. By eliminating small roots and rocks, or allowing them to avoid obstacles *you** enable them to continue their destructive behavior because they never learn to cope with even the smallest of obstacles.

*YOU meaning you and other trail workers who may tend to over manage, over manicure and over think the construction and maintenance of something as simple as a trail.

As to your riding habits, perhaps some day you'll gain the experience and the skills to where you won't have to "try" to stay on the trail.  (sarcasm)


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Shelbak73 said:


> Foam? generalizations? perhaps.... but I am in agreement with E. Panda. His suggestion was to leave the SMALL bumps and ripples, and you some how relate this to "Technical" and "38lb bikes with 7" and so on (*?*) My full-squishy is a whopping 25lbs with an incredible 4" of travel. I am also in agreement with E. Panda's theory on how to "encourage" noobs and others to ride obstacles. By eliminating small roots and rocks, or allowing them to avoid obstacles *you** enable them to continue their destructive behavior because they never learn to cope with even the smallest of obstacles.
> 
> *YOU meaning you and other trail workers who may tend to over manage, over manicure and over think the construction and maintenance of something as simple as a trail.
> 
> As to your riding habits, perhaps some day you'll gain the experience and the skills to where you won't have to "try" to stay on the trail.  (sarcasm)


Jeeze Shelbak this is a big issue for you isn't it? :lol:

Once again, the guy want's to build a smooth, easy trail. Such trails are an appropriate part of the spectrum of riding type opportunities, which includes everything from crusher fine type trails to full on FR/DH type trails. There is a place for everything, you don't like the trail he and his group builds, don't ride it.

I don't see how you equate my statement of


> *There is also a place for tech trails* (my bold added) so guys with 38 pound 7" bikes can justify their purchase but that wasn't the question asked."


 which was somewhat tongue in cheek, hence the wink, with


> to leave the SMALL bumps and ripples, and you some how relate this to "Technical" and "38lb bikes with 7" and so on


As far as overmanaging, Just keeping trails draining properly and free of blowdown is enough for the group that I am part of. We don't really have the time to spend too much time on


> over manage, over manicure and over think


 trail work.

As to my experience, I've been riding, racing, and loving mountian bikes for 23 years so I guess I have a bit of experience, but I'm always learning and working on improving my fitness and skills. I'll keep *trying,* to stay on the trail. :thumbsup:


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## Blurred_Vision (May 19, 2006)

donwatts said:


> Has anyone actually used a plate compactor on a new trail construction?


Yes - Mike Riter has a plate compactor attachment for his machine. He says 3 passes after a section is built and it tightens it up like concrete.I think we will experiment with a walk behind sled compactor next time we do a reroute on a heavily used local trail.I think if it will not float over the embedded rocks and other undulations that we want to keep and just tighten up the tread surface we would probably not continue using it.Our last reroute was in marginal slope and not great soil and so many people rode it wet before it compacted it got pretty chewed up. Maybe a plate compactor would have helped some.Now we will have to do some rock armoring(might have needed it anyway) and try to improve drainage.


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## Chalkpaw (Dec 28, 2007)

I'd agree with the others on just getting a bunch of riders going back and forth to burn in the section, especially in damp conditions. Then spot check/fix the areas that seem not to hold up to the traffic. Why spend $$ on rentals or tools? You are already spending your time and passion and back to the effort, right? As far as motos are concerned, use them if they are allowed on the trail system because if you build something that is not compacted, drained, armored, well designed, well built, etc., they will basically destroy (not from malcontent) what you have put so much energy into. Best of luck with your project!


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## SunDog (Feb 21, 2004)

I have seen this technique (motorcycle) used recently to lay out a new trail. It appeared to be a very effective way to lay in and compact the route vs. using mcleaods to scratch in and compact miles of trail. Definitely got me thinking.


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

thanks. i think i'll let the riders and hikers take care of it. i'm sure they will let me know what parts really suck. meanwhile, i've moved on to the next mile of trail.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

zrm said:


> Jeeze Shelbak this is a big issue for you isn't it? :lol:
> 
> Once again, the guy want's to build a smooth, easy trail. Such trails are an appropriate part of the spectrum of riding type opportunities, which includes everything from crusher fine type trails to full on FR/DH type trails. There is a place for everything, you don't like the trail he and his group builds, don't ride it.
> 
> ...


To answer your Question, no..... not especially, but I do like the effort you've put into this last post, with all the quotes and stuff. Perhaps you could put into quotes the word "easy" from the original post for me?

_My sincere apologies to Mega Shnauzer (for whom I have great respect) and to all the respondents to this line, of which I helped to corrupt._


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Shelbak73 said:


> To answer your Question, no..... not especially, but I do like the effort you've put into this last post, with all the quotes and stuff. Perhaps you could put into quotes the word "easy" from the original post for me?
> 
> _My sincere apologies to Mega Shnauzer (for whom I have great respect) and to all the respondents to this line, of which I helped to corrupt._


OK, not the original post, but a post by the original poster in the same thread none the less. My bad, He didn't say "easy" he said "beginner." and "somewhat tame" I suppose it's safe to say those words or synonyms for easy but your right, the word easy wasn't used.

Here ya go

My bold added



> Megashnauzer
> The Voice of Reason
> 
> Posts: 68 lots of good suggestions and several have been tried in the past................
> ........... there are lots of old tire ruts and stump holes. mostly they don't bother me but some places it pretty much sucks. and *this trail is supposed to be a beginner trail *(a fast trail for everyone else) so it needs to be somewhat tame. on new year's day i tried to do a time trial but only six people showed so we just did laps. it helped define the trail a lot but it still needs some smoothing. i was told there is a mulching machine that tills to a fixed depth that i may try to find. thanks for the input.


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## Electric Panda (Jan 8, 2006)

I guess the thing is that if you want ‘trails that tighten up like concrete’ why don’t you just ride on footpaths? There is lots of them and the councils build them for you. If you want to ride smooth buff tracks - ride on forestry and fire trails… There is lots of them and the Foresty folks build them for you.

But geez… if you are gong to build singletrack make it easy for yourself and leave the rocks, logs, humps and bumps alone. It is quicker to build, more fun to ride and you get to have a use for that expensive suspension you are showing of to your buddies. 

And if you are scared of a bit of mud perhaps you are in the wrong sport.


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

Again if smothing is what you want to do and you have some loose soil or tread material availabe, try a 30 or 36" black plastic leaf rake to move material around to fill. You be surpised how much material/dirt you can move with these tools. they are not just for leaves. It's a great shaping tool.


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## Terminator Z (Feb 16, 2007)

If it takes too much effort to "smooth out" a trail, then maybe it’s just not the right kind of area/terrain to build a "smoothed out trail" on.

Smooth, buff trails that flow are fun, and so is rocky, technical terrain that makes you develop real bike handling skills.

If its going to work, it'll work, if it won't, don't force it. Theres a time and place for everything.


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

alright, it's been a while sense i originally posted this thread. i rode the loop yesterday and i still think it needs smoothing. it's not that i'm looking for a sidewalk to ride on but i don't want to be riding on railroad tracks either. we've got the imba tcc coming to town next weekend and i hope they have some input.


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

*Here's a hillbilly suggestion...*

here in idahoe, and i do think it's critical what part of the world you're riding, we like to use the means of a flock of sheep, our gay senators favorite bunch of toys (other than airport lavatory handles,) so one means which he is quick to condone the use of, sheep can buff out a trail around here and in our backcountry faster than you can say "You betcha!"

Sure, they leave alot of "merde" every where and really stink up the place until the next rain, but bahhh, do they know how to flatten out the countryside.

So really depends on the geology, and a bit of animal husbandry, how a trail will finish out around here. Good luck with the trail.


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## The Prodigal Son (Apr 22, 2008)

> smoothing a new trail
> what's the best method for smoothing a new trail? it's not so rough it needs a bobcat but it's a lot to smooth by hand. i've got the line of the trail ridden in some so i thought maybe a small tiller would do the trick. it's only a mile or so long but i've got another six in the works.


Simple questions like asking the best method for smoothing a new trail are often ignored in a thread, so that people can use the opportunity to tell others they should not be sanitizing trails by doing too much finish work. They make many assumptions about others riding skills and how the finished trail should look and ride. All of us who have spent 13 years and 4000 hours or even just 1 year and 300 hours designing, building, restoring, and maintaining trails know that these type of people/critics, will always be present. You can hear them out and ignore them. You can ask them to participate. You can braid sections of trail and allow them to build a section to their liking. There are many options. It will do little good to tell them you want the trail smoother, for whatever reason. They have their own agenda and their own ideas about how many rocks and tree roots they want on their trails. Ultimately, they want all the trails to be built to their liking, with little or no concern about the needs of other riders and other user groups.

Megashnauzer, I usually supervise ten person professional (paid) trail crews. Over the years, I have found that there are specific skills that some people naturally have. The rarest of those skills is the "finisher". The big strong guys are great out front during construction, but they generally have no idea how to finish a trail. They ignore the loose sub-surface rocks that prevent a trail from setting up, they leave shoulders on either side of the tread, they fail to brush back overhanging branches, saplings and shrubs along the edge of the trail, they leave blind high-speed corners by failing to remove some of the dense plant growth on the inside of those turns, they fail to see sections needing a chicane to prevent riders from scrubbing off speed too quickly and creating washboard, and they rarely spot the best locations for grade dips. It is the "finisher" who brings up the rear, who has the responsibility to make sure all these things get done correctly.

We are talking about an art form, as much as science. Most trail builders want to move forward, having done little more than 50% of what is required to make a sustainable trail system that doesn't fail after the first couple storms or a season of riding.

I teach my crews to use their most valuable tool when doing finish work. That tool is....wait for it.......the work boot. It's the most used tool and the most valuable when doing finish work. There is little I couldn't accomplish with a pick mattock and my size 13 work boots from Cabela's. I like to walk along and skim the high spots with the mattock and move that soil into low spots with my boot and pack it down with several stomps. If you have no moisture in your soil, you'll have to return during monsoon, spring run-off, or when there is some moisture, to get a firm pack. Rule #1 when trying to finish a trail during drought is that you are better off removing than adding soil to the trail. Removing allows a pack final surface. Adding a pile of powder to try and build up a trail will fail, sometimes in only a matter of days.

The trick I've learned over the years is that you have to mine out as many loose sub-surface rocks as possible to get the trail to firm up. Otherwise the horse traffic, bikers who brake heavy, and motorized users will all flip those rocks up and onto the trail, where gravity will eventually get them all piled up, causing users to "high-side" around them, widening the trail. Even the most skilled riders on big downhill rigs don't choose to ride over a field of baby-heads when they can ride around them. What I do is use my boots to pat down the trail surface, while at the same time I give a little wiggle as my forefoot is in contact with the ground. Just like an old geezer at the beach looking for buried treasure, or a potato farmer. You can feel if the trail is stable or if there is a loose rock and inch or two below the surface. When you find one (it often leads to a group of several loose rocks), you pop it out with the pick end of your tool, toss it off the downhill side of the trail, and then carefully level off the hole and make sure it is well packed.

In addition, I try to look for the line that riders are using/creating. Listen to what users are saying. Ride behind groups and see what lines they are taking. You might have left a particular rock in the trail that is shaded most of the day and cannot be seen as riders come out of a fast corner. In time, you'll see a lot of marks from pedal strikes or maybe hear about some nasty spills. You might want to remove that rock, or lower it so it isn't catching pedals.

That trail you are concerned about will hold a lot of water, due to the many low sections. Take a pick mattock out, just after a light rain shower, and look for all the small puddles on the trail. Many can be addressed by simply scraping off high spots and filling in low spots. Others will require better sloping to get better drainage.

If you are having trouble finding paid or volunteer trail workers who are willing to do complete finish work, look for type "A" men and most any women. These two groups have always been my best finishers. Also, ask people if they are artistic. Artists tend to be great finishers. We are lucky because we use international volunteers that are about 50% female. The women from South Korea and Japan have been some of the best finishers I have ever worked with, while the German and Swedish men love to swing sledge hammers and be out front cutting new trail.

Post some pictures, if you can, so we can see what your challenges are.

- The Prodigal Son

*Respect the land, defend the defenseless and don't ya never spit in front of women and children. - the code of the west*


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

i just happen to wear size 13. i live in nw florida so our soils are pretty erodible. i have about an inch or two of good soil and the rest is white sand. we've been working with this type of soil on existing trails for a few years and we have found that it's best not to disturb it too much. i try to leave as much of the duff and leaf litter as possible and just let it pack into the trail. the concept of just skimming the high spots and filling the low spots is exactly what i'm looking to do. the problem is the whole trail is a series of small high and low spots. i don't want to polish the whole trail but i would like to smooth out some of the rougher sections. i don't think my size 13 feet can handle that much. right now the trail doesn't get that much traffic so just riding it and hoping it will smooth out is futile. and if i expect to get people to ride it in the future, it can't be a miserable trail to ride. i've thought about the livestock angle. we have miles of horse trails up here so getting horses on it wouldn't be a problem. getting them to stay off would be impossible. a motorcycle would be good as they would help establish a good line but we would have to sneak it in. the action hoe! sounds like it might work plus it has a cool name, like the shamwow!.


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## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

I don't think there's going to be any shortcuts for you. Use a maddoc/pulaksi to break stuff up where necessary, McLeod to move the material to low spots and boots to pack. Most importantly, be willing to put in the time. That sand underneath sounds like a challenge, but I bet it at least makes for a well-draining soil.

For big holes it sound like you can't use material from the trail tread, so you might need to use borrow pits and take the best top layer from beside the trail and bucket it into the low spots.

Building good trail ain't easy.


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## Breakurnees (Dec 13, 2007)

http://www.opentip.com/Home-Garden/Tamp-Steel-Base-Plate-p-566087.html

A tamping tool is similar to a McCleod, but heavier and does a good job of compacting soil.


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## roguehoe (Nov 27, 2007)

That Yard Boss looks interesting. Does anyone have any pictures of this in use ? Or pictures of trail cut with this? Seems like it would speed up the benching process.


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

I remember a thread on the Yard Boss a while back!


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

To loosen the surface and smooth out minor bumps, try a leveling rake with the tines cut to about half length. Use the back of the rake like the blade of the McLeod to move the dirt into any small holes or dips.I tried a tiller and didn't like the results (broke the rented tiller and dug the trail too deep) 

To compact a long trail try a wheelbarrow full of dirt or rocks on a wet day. It works pretty well for me. The tire track of the wheelbarrow will define the "Track" and between the weight of the barrow and the fact that you are taking baby steps with extra weight on you, you'll end up with a nice smooth compacted trail.

I'll have to try a plate compactor though. It sound like fun.


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## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

We tried a plate compactor once that a contractor loaned us. Our soil was saturated and had high clay content, and it didn't work at all. It just brought the water up to the surface and turned it to slimy goo.

I bet it would work fine on certain soil types, just not wet clay.


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