# I know its been talked about to death....but I hate equestrians on the trail



## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

I rode yesterday at a state park that has a well signed 8 mile mountain bike loop. This park has miles and miles of trails but only one loop designed by bikers and built for mountain bikes. 

I'm riding down a hill and I approached two people on horseback. I slow down and let them pass. I refrained from making a comment that the mountain bike loop is probably the most dangerous place to riding horses. Not to mention this was a busy Saturday with bikers all over this trail

As they pass me one says, "You know, you should really approach slower (implying that I should be walking my bike????) It may spook my horse." 

Then these two d-bags gallop away at some ridiculous speed, coming awful close to me and my the guy I was riding with.

Really? You say that to a biker while you're riding horses on a mountain bike trail? 

I'm sick of these pretentious jerk offs of the trails I ride. :madman::madman:

End rant.


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## Fyrblade (Aug 6, 2011)

lol

Try not to judge all based on a couple of dbags


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## Gary H (Dec 16, 2006)

Horses were here before mountain bikes. I grew up with Horses, motorcycles and of course, bicycles, and if I ran across a Horse on the trail, I would always yield to the equestrian. The reason being is that Horses spook very easily and that could get the rider killed. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel I own the world, or a trail, or anything but my name, and my integrity. 

On Thumper Talk, a M/C forum I frequent was complaining about MTBers getting the way and how they were scum, yadda dadda. My bet is there is an Equestrian forum complaining about 4x4s, who knows!

At 53 years old, if I wake up tomorrow and have an inch to ride, I'm happy! I have no problem sharing trails, except with those damn quads! :madman: They should be outlawed. :eekster:


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Hate has no place in the passion forum. Just sayin.


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## Ska (Jan 12, 2004)

I know I shouldn't get involved in this one because it's going to be one of those popcorn eating go-on-forever threads but....



Gary H said:


> At 53 years old, if I wake up tomorrow and have an inch to ride, I'm happy!


That is absolutely insane. Seriously? :nono:



Gary H said:


> I have no problem sharing trails.


Absolutely! Agree 100% *EXCEPT* on *designated* trail. In this case, a mountain bike trail.

In saying that, to the OP, I'd have let them know as they may honestly not have been aware, despite the signs. It happens.

Cheers.


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## Gary H (Dec 16, 2006)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Hate has no place in the passion forum. Just sayin.


But hate IS a passion.

Mountain Bike Scum - ThumperTalk


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## cdaddy (Nov 8, 2005)

Despite the phrase "designed by bikers and built for mountain bikes," I can't tell by the OP if the trail is multi-use. If the trail is designated MTB only, I think you have a valid point and you should've let them know it's off-limits. If it's multi-use, dismount, let them by, and get on with your ride.


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## Adam_B. (Apr 7, 2011)

I've encountered equestrians a few times on one of the local trails and its always the same people. Whenever I come across them I get off the trail and stop. I've never had a problem with the riders at all however one of their horses is an a$$hole. The first time I came across them the rider asked me if it was ok for his horse to check out my bike since this was the first time he had been around one. I said sure no problem and as I'm sitting there straddling my bike this horse bites my handlebar grip and lifts the bike up smashing the top tube into my nuts. Needless to say I dismount every time we meet on the trail now.


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## RSWMTB (Jun 7, 2011)

Different kinds of "Horse People"...believe me, I know. I live in a town/area that is under the "horse mafia" (rich, old money, snooty, ass hats)...


Many of them are true ignerts.



.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

There are lots of a holes on this planet. Some ride horses. Some ride mountain bikes. 

Can't judge an entire group based on two people.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

pointerDixie214 said:


> There are lots of a holes on this planet. Some ride horses. Some ride mountain bikes.
> 
> Can't judge an entire group based on two people.


+ rep for that.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

YZ250Fox said:


> One time I did encounter a couple d bags that pretty much tried to ORDER me to slow down in a very authoritative and a-hole type tone. The thing that made me mad is that they did this as I was in the process of slowing down for them. So, I let go of the brakes and switched to my highest gear and pedaled my bike fast towards them. Once I got near the horse I hit the back brake and skidded to the left to give them a slight spook. The guys then started yelling profanities at me which I simply ignored as I was riding off.


This = Not helping the situation any. You could have seriously injured these riders, and it would have been 100% your fault. What do you think that would have done for the MTB community in your area? Do you think that will help secure more trails? Help make equestrians more cordial to us? I don't mean to sound harsh, and I understand that it's hard not to act on emotion sometimes... but please don't do this again.

It's funny. I live in an area where there are TONS of equestrians and TONS of MTBers. All my MTB buddies talk about what a holes the horse people are. Yet, I have come across hundreds of them, and never once had a bad experience.

It's all how you approach them. If you're a jerk or inconsiderate, they will be too. I usually carry some carrots in my camelbak for the horses of the ones who are really nice. You would be surprised how far simply being kind will go.

I will say I don't like when they ride our trails after rain. But then, I don't like it when MTBers do this either.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

YZ250Fox said:


> Did you read the rest of my post? I never approach horseback riders in an inconsiderate way. I always slow down or stop and let them pass. In this case they approached me in a very inconsiderate and arrogant way and I had to end up being the jerk to them this time.
> 
> By the way I didn't get very close to the horse at all, just enough to get it to back up a little bit.


You said you purposefully grabbed the rear brake to skid and spook them a little. Someone being a jerk doesn't warrant that.

You didn't "have to be the jerk to them this time." You chose to.

Do you think you accomplished anything at all except fueling their passion of being even bigger jerks to the next MTBer?


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

The problem here is not "hate" but there sure is some stupid here.


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## GoingOffRoading (Oct 16, 2011)

I run into horses every now and then and I'm usually very accommodating (I usually ride solo so stepping off to the side for horses, hikers, groups of bikers, etc is the norm) but I get a little pissed when the trail is single track and their horse leaves a huge turd in the middle of the trail.

I don't take a dump on your doorstep... So... Like... Really?


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

pointerDixie214 said:


> There are lots of a holes on this planet. Some ride horses. Some ride mountain bikes.
> 
> Can't judge an entire group based on two people.


it just seems like every time a run into someone on a horse they have attitude that _I'm_ on _their_ trail.


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

*Iron Horse is the only horse I want on the trails with me.*



mtbnoobadam said:


> I've encountered equestrians a few times on one of the local trails and its always the same people. Whenever I come across them I get off the trail and stop. I've never had a problem with the riders at all however one of their horses is an a$$hole. The first time I came across them the rider asked me if it was ok for his horse to check out my bike since this was the first time he had been around one. I said sure no problem and as I'm sitting there straddling my bike this horse bites my handlebar grip and lifts the bike up smashing the top tube into my nuts. Needless to say I dismount every time we meet on the trail now.


I laughed so hard my wife had to check out what all the fun was when I read your post.

Equestrians are ok I suppose, but when they come on the bike trails they're shot for the next few weeks due to the hoof imprints they leave. When they go down a wet trail, the trail's shot indefinitely. Here's my beef with equines, lame joke I know: They're more versatile than any other type of vehicle, especially bikes, and yet they plod down the middle of our minute trail and force us off, which where I'm from often means going into impassable deep sand that horses would have no problem with.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

pointerDixie214 said:


> I will say I don't like when they ride our trails after rain. But then, I don't like it when MTBers do this either.


Around here the horse people are gonna ride regardless of trail conditions. The bike traffic actually smooths out the potholes in the soft areas. Ride on. :thumbsup:


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## Sorebuttbiker (May 1, 2011)

I come across horsey people pretty much every time I ride and they have usually been nice. I always slow down to a crawl because I understand that horses, while people say they are smart, actually have a brain the size of a poppy seed and I don't want to spook one and have it hoof stomp me. I always ask the riders how its going and after passing I always tell them to have a good ride. They always return the sentiment. I am not on my own personal private property so I don't get to be an ass to everyone out there that isn't doing what I am doing. 

We are all ambassadors of this sport, we can either represent the sport with maturity and reason or we can be the D-bags that have caused some of these horsey people to hate us all in the first place. Pretty sure they didn't just wake up one day and decide they hated mountain bikers. They had a bad experience, like, someone hauling ass up to them, jammed the brakes into a skid and riding off. I know it's hard being the better person but if a horsey person talks smack you just do the polite thing and let them be the D-bags. Better to infuriate them with politeness than to give them more ammo against us.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

wasea04 said:


> Here's my beef with equines,


I literally spit beer when I read this.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

Sorebuttbiker said:


> We are all ambassadors of this sport, we can either represent the sport with maturity and reason or we can be the D-bags that have caused some of these horsey people to hate us all in the first place. Pretty sure they didn't just wake up one day and decide they hated mountain bikers. They had a bad experience, like, someone hauling ass up to them, jammed the brakes into a skid and riding off. I know it's hard being the better person but if a horsey person talks smack you just do the polite thing and let them be the D-bags. Better to infuriate them with politeness than to give them more ammo against us.


Very well said. Plus rep


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

I just want to add that it is NOT my fault or any other mountain biker's fault if they spook a horse by coming around a turn on a multi-use trail. It doesn't sound like these riders were around a blind turn, but that is the situation that I have issues with. If the horse is spooked by bikes, it should not be on the trail. That is the equestrian's fault for having an improperly trained horse on the trail. Turns happen. I will not walk around every turn because there might be a horse there.


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## Sorebuttbiker (May 1, 2011)

mountainbiker24 said:


> I just want to add that it is NOT my fault or any other mountain biker's fault if they spook a horse by coming around a turn on a multi-use trail. It doesn't sound like these riders were around a blind turn, but that is the situation that I have issues with. If the horse is spooked by bikes, it should not be on the trail. That is the equestrian's fault for having an improperly trained horse on the trail. Turns happen. I will not walk around every turn because there might be a horse there.


I agree, riding around blind turns falls under the "poo happens" category. As far as trained horses, I also agree that they shouldn't bring untrained horses on a public path. Sometimes though even the best tempered and well trained horses go batshit. Like I said before, poppy seed sized brain. I slow and am cautious mostly for my own safety. I just don't trust those animals.


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## torreyaz (Jul 17, 2011)

mtbnoobadam said:


> I've encountered equestrians a few times on one of the local trails and its always the same people. Whenever I come across them I get off the trail and stop. I've never had a problem with the riders at all however one of their horses is an a$$hole. The first time I came across them the rider asked me if it was ok for his horse to check out my bike since this was the first time he had been around one. I said sure no problem and as I'm sitting there straddling my bike this horse bites my handlebar grip and lifts the bike up smashing the top tube into my nuts. Needless to say I dismount every time we meet on the trail now.


My riding buddies and I slow down on local trails for horses and everyone has been cool. If a horse rider started lecturing me I'd leave the bike and tear him/her a new one.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

One of my local trails is frequented by equestrians. On the major descent a mountain biker can get going pretty fast. When I see equestrians on their way up I slow down well ahead of the horses. Almost every time, the equestrians wave me down. They react very positively to the gesture of a mountain biker slowing down so much for them. I pass very slowly and wish them a good ride. I have yet to have a negative encounter.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> One of my local trails is frequented by equestrians. On the major descent a mountain biker can get going pretty fast. When I see equestrians on their way up I slow down well ahead of the horses. Almost every time, the equestrians wave me down. They react very positively to the gesture of a mountain biker slowing down so much for them. I pass very slowly and wish them a good ride. I have yet to have a negative encounter.


Funny how that works huh?

As for the turns, correct. That falls under the "crap happens" category. But if it's a multi-use track, you're still at fault if you cream a hiker or equestrian.


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## SeaHag (Jul 14, 2011)

Our only local trail system allows horses too unfortunately. While I've never had a close call or high speed encounter with any of them that has given me such a bad attitude, I can't help but get extremely pissed off at all the horse crap left all over every trail out there...even trails signed specifically against horse traffic. As if it's not bad enough all the damage they cause, you get their **** flung up in your face by the front wheel when you come around a corner and can't avoid the pile. Their are city ordinances posted everywhere about having to clean up after your dog [and I do] so why don't the equestrians get off their ass and at least kick those piles off the trail into the brush?


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## hazmazk (Nov 6, 2011)

SeaHag said:


> Our only local trail system allows horses too unfortunately. While I've never had a close call or high speed encounter with any of them that has given me such a bad attitude, I can't help but get extremely pissed off at all the horse crap left all over every trail out there...even trails signed specifically against horse traffic. As if it's not bad enough all the damage they cause, you get their **** flung up in your face by the front wheel when you come around a corner and can't avoid the pile. Their are city ordinances posted everywhere about having to clean up after your dog [and I do] so why don't the equestrians get off their ass and at least kick those piles off the trail into the brush?


 lets not act like we have never left tread marks in the dirt on "hikers only" posted trails. I don't find horse riders frustrating at all, maybe thats because i own two horses myself. I always give them the right away and stop to allow them to pass.


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## drew and not u (Feb 9, 2011)

Methinks there are a lot of redditors on these forumz.


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## Sarguy (Sep 25, 2010)

There is one trail area I ride about once a month that has Roy Rogers and Dale Evans riding on the "share" trails. I don't mind "dismounting" my bike and being extra polite. Being an animal lover, I care more for the horse than the baggage on top. I'd hate myself if I spooked some horse into injury. The riders I encounter are always courteous and really appreciate a mt'br with a responsible share trail attitude, much the same way I feel when I'm ripping down hill and a hiker moves to let me blow past.


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## KidRawkz (Nov 4, 2010)

the PC nature of this forum is both incredibly predictable and boring as hell.
the OP is correct
horse's suck
[/thread]


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

I think the only solution is for all of us to wear mountain lion costumes and to approach equestrians at full speed while growling. There, problem of horses on trails solved.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Sorebuttbiker said:


> We are all ambassadors of this sport


Thanks.

*Passion*...for putting my ego and emotion aside when doing so is in the best interest of our user group in the eyes of land managers. Call me selfish--I want access. Fighting with other user groups can endanger it. Be the more enlightened one, even when someone else is in the wrong (not always easy, I know). TIA.

Mike


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Gary H said:


> Horses were here before mountain bikes. I grew up with Horses, motorcycles and of course, bicycles, and if I ran across a Horse on the trail, I would always yield to the equestrian. The reason being is that Horses spook very easily and that could get the rider killed. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel I own the world, or a trail, or anything but my name, and my integrity.
> 
> On Thumper Talk, a M/C forum I frequent was complaining about MTBers getting the way and how they were scum, yadda dadda. My bet is there is an Equestrian forum complaining about 4x4s, who knows!
> 
> At 53 years old, if I wake up tomorrow and have an inch to ride, I'm happy! I have no problem sharing trails, except with those damn quads! :madman: They should be outlawed. :eekster:


And before horses, people were here, so obviously horses have no place on our trails either. The fact that horses spook easily is not the fault of the mountain biker. They should observe ALL rules obviously, but it's not my fault and resonsibility that someone is out there riding an unpredictable animal.

Where do you get off thinking that dangerous unpredictable horeses are ok on the trail, but not quads?


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

Honestly though, the people who are attracted to recreational horse mounting possess an abnormally strong desire to control other animals. That desire for entitled (or enbridled) power over living things likely makes them more motivated to seek political means of complaining and designating trails specifically for their use, because of course THEY should set the rules for man and beast alike.

Its a control issue and I not some idiot horse that is gonna let them mount me, spur me and use my diesel for their whim politically or otherwise.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

knutso said:


> People who are attracted to recreational horse mounting possess an abnormally strong desire to control other animals.


So if we pair that up with the mountain biker's aversion to being stopped, mitigated, or otherwise controlled .......

What happens is that we roll over altogether to manage our own tendencies; sort of all or nothing. I'm looking for something that reasonably pushes back.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

pointerDixie214 said:


> You said you purposefully grabbed the rear brake to skid and spook them a little. Someone being a jerk doesn't warrant that.
> 
> You didn't "have to be the jerk to them this time." You chose to.
> 
> Do you think you accomplished anything at all except fueling their passion of being even bigger jerks to the next MTBer?


 We don't need to give them any more reason to despise us. Be courteous, say hello, slow way down to walking speed, consider getting off the bike and walking. After all this and they continue to be jerks, and then explain you _are_going slow enough, they have no right to be riding horses in public that aren't ready to encounter strangers. They are posing a hazard to the horses, themselves, and the other legal trail users and tell them you will report them to the land manager. They have a legal and moral responsibility to be model trail users just like everyone else.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

knutso said:


> Honestly though, the people who are attracted to recreational horse mounting possess an abnormally strong desire to control other animals. That desire for entitled (or enbridled) power over living things likely makes them more motivated to seek political means of complaining and designating trails specifically for their use, because of course THEY should set the rules for man and beast alike.
> 
> Its a control issue and I not some idiot horse that is gonna let them mount me, spur me and use my diesel for their whim politically or otherwise.


Wow. You have some.... interesting views.



masterofnone said:


> We don't need to give them any more reason to despise us. Be courteous, say hello, slow way down to walking speed, consider getting off the bike and walking. After all this and they continue to be jerks, and then explain you _are_going slow enough, they have no right to be riding horses in public that aren't ready to encounter strangers. They are posing a hazard to the horses, themselves, and the other legal trail users and tell them you will report them to the land manager. They have a legal and moral responsibility to be model trail users just like everyone else.


Exactly. But I think most will find if you follow your first steps, nothing but a polite conversation will ensue.


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## hazmazk (Nov 6, 2011)

wasea04 said:


> I think the only solution is for all of us to wear mountain lion costumes and to approach equestrians at full speed while growling. There, problem of horses on trails solved.


i lol'ed when i read this, let me know how it goes.


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## RBowles (Jun 1, 2010)

The horse people that use the trails in our area are really nice and polite. I could never see any of this behaviour happening around here. Matter of fact, I rode up behind a couple and politely asked if it was okay for me to pass, as I did not wish to scare their horses. They let me pass and thanked me for asking.


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## wottiv (Oct 4, 2011)

*http://forums.mtbr.com/north-south-carolina/bear-wait-what-horses-746859.html*

Check this thread out- From a trail I love to ride... closed to horses.

Sorry- I can not post a link, because I have less than 10 posts. Cut and paste into your browser, or go to the NC/SC forum.


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## Gary H (Dec 16, 2006)

Jayem said:


> And before horses, people were here, so obviously horses have no place on our trails either. The fact that horses spook easily is not the fault of the mountain biker. They should observe ALL rules obviously, but it's not my fault and resonsibility that someone is out there riding an unpredictable animal.
> 
> Where do you get off thinking that dangerous unpredictable horeses are ok on the trail, but not quads?


Horses go back to 30,000 BC and my guess is that's a tad before the mountain bike.

But carry on as I don't want to argue this point any further. In the end, it's yall younger group that is responsible for keeping our public lands open and accessible.

Good luck! :thumbsup:


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## Mac Attack II (Dec 17, 2006)

I rode a trail system in NY I dont rember what it was but they had a great idea to keep horses off the bike only trails. They made low arches out at the enterance and exit to each of the bike only trails.
They were not even low enough to make you duck your head on bicycle but would require a dismount front horseback. 
The results were the bike only trials at the park did not have any hoof prints on them.

Mike


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## Crash&bern (Aug 23, 2011)

Don't hate anyone no matter what they ride !! But I do hate the damage horses cause on bike trails Not multiple use trails. Those i can share .I'm talking trails built & maintained by bikers
You can't dispute the fact that horse hooves can dig up a trail in a day what it takes months to pack. They widen the trails , remove obstacles & leave nice " presents " on the trails & trail heads. 
I don't want to start a feud here !! Everyone enjoy your own passion ! Just be considerate to other people's


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

In my area horse people seem smart enough to stay off the trails when the trails are wet so huff damage is minimal. Most bikers in my area also seem to understand that riding in mud can damage a trail. Ironically a while back when I mentioned on this forum that it might not be a good idea to bike on wet and muddy trails a couple bikers went absolutely ape sh*t. So bikers can cause trail damage just as severe as horses.


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## Crash&bern (Aug 23, 2011)

No , sorry but a horse on a dry trail will do far more damage than a bike on a wet trail !
( though no one should ride a wet trail)
I can back this up with photos or show you first hand singletrack that was almost destroyed on a dry weekend by a handful of horses. If they took the time to build & maintain their own trails , like the local bikers did, we would stay off theirs.


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## bridger (Dec 7, 2010)

Gary H said:


> Horses were here before mountain bikes. I grew up with Horses, motorcycles and of course, bicycles, and if I ran across a Horse on the trail, I would always yield to the equestrian. The reason being is that Horses spook very easily and that could get the rider killed. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel I own the world, or a trail, or anything but my name, and my integrity.
> 
> On Thumper Talk, a M/C forum I frequent was complaining about MTBers getting the way and how they were scum, yadda dadda. My bet is there is an Equestrian forum complaining about 4x4s, who knows!
> 
> At 53 years old, if I wake up tomorrow and have an inch to ride, I'm happy! I have no problem sharing trails, except with those damn quads! :madman: They should be outlawed. :eekster:


+!!


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## bridger (Dec 7, 2010)

mtbnoobadam said:


> i've encountered equestrians a few times on one of the local trails and its always the same people. Whenever i come across them i get off the trail and stop. I've never had a problem with the riders at all however one of their horses is an a$$hole. The first time i came across them the rider asked me if it was ok for his horse to check out my bike since this was the first time he had been around one. I said sure no problem and as i'm sitting there straddling my bike this horse bites my handlebar grip and lifts the bike up smashing the top tube into my nuts. Needless to say i dismount every time we meet on the trail now.


lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:d


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## torreyaz (Jul 17, 2011)

YZ250Fox said:


> WTF? You'd hit a woman? Or did you mean it as in cursing them out?


No, not physically, unless it's Roseanne Barr on the horse. But I would get in someone's grill if the dialogue from the 'horsey' was indignant or grossly impolite. You bet. I make every effort to be polite and even stop for horses.


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## B-Mac (Oct 2, 2008)

I haven't had any issues with horses other than poop & trail damage. I'll always stop & get off the bike & walk it past the horses. No point in risking getting someone injured to raise a point. 

The poop & trail damage is annoying, but they're here & we generally need their cooperation to ride certain trails so we might as well just learn to get along. If a horse rider messed up your run down a fun section of DH, you can always go back up to the top & do the run over. 

There's plenty of room in the woods for ALL of us to have a good time.


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## Crash&bern (Aug 23, 2011)

"hadn't any issues with horses other than poop& trail damage "
Isn't that enough ?? These are the ONLY issues I have with horses !! 
Other than damaging trails they don't help build or maintain , I'm sure they are very nice people. 
Maybe they can join us in the spring with a shovel & rake


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## joshman108 (Jul 6, 2009)

Im usually not a fan of equestrians, but they always smile and seem so happy that my angst is usually suppressed


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## PaMtnBkr (Feb 28, 2005)

*Life is too short to be miserable*

My outlook is, Life is too short to be miserable. Only you can control the misery you let others inflict on you. Horse people for the most part have been friendly and I am happy to share the woods with them. They are at least outside and enjoying nature. It does suck when they tear up a trail but in the end it's not that bad. The trails seem to be able to recover in time. A little horse poo is not nice but better than dog poo.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

The way I see it, I dodge rocks and crap my entire ride. Literally. But dodging the crap doesn't bother me any more than the rocks.


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## hydrogeek (Feb 20, 2006)

No real issues while on a bike with equestrians. I do love the pretty cow girls and like to chat them up on the trail  

The only time I have had any issue with an equestrian was while hiking as part of a trail work party. Yea, were fixing the trail they are using and they act like d-bags to us.....nice.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> One of my local trails is frequented by equestrians. On the major descent a mountain biker can get going pretty fast. When I see equestrians on their way up I slow down well ahead of the horses. Almost every time, the equestrians wave me down. They react very positively to the gesture of a mountain biker slowing down so much for them. I pass very slowly and wish them a good ride. I have yet to have a negative encounter.


Maybe it's different in _real_ horse country where they think they own the trails, but I've had nothing but positive experiences with equestrians on the trail. Slow way down or walk, be friendly and polite, they have a passion like we do and just happy to be out there like we are. Conversations have always been pleasant. Let's all let out a big sigh now


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## desrcr (Feb 8, 2004)

Most of you guys, I wouldnt eat lunch with. Your narrow minded view of you little piece of the world is disturbing. Horses, hikers. Mtbers and OHVers........... they all do trail work, maybe not with you because who wants to spend any time with a "entitled" ******* like you? I have done signage on OHV trail where equestrians brought all the signs and tools in for us. They found it cool they were able to ride on our trails for this project.
I'm an odd bird so to speak, I ride my mountain bike in the same area I also ride my motorcycle and horse. No user is MORE entitled then the other, well except the walkers/hikers. They get their feathers ruffled, they seem to be the hardest to get along with. Though I try with due diligence..
Your losing you public lands to forces that literally hate you and want to exclude you. Why make it easier by seperating yourself from the other users?


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## simian23 (Aug 13, 2004)

1) Single-use trails suck, unless they're part of a private reserve or bike park.
2) I have bad encounters on trails so rarely it isn't worth mentioning. But people that mention bad encounters always seem to have lots of them. Hmmm....


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## Timo (Jan 13, 2004)

I had an incident while trail running last fall that I think illustrates some of the things to be aware of when encountering horse riders.

I was finishing up a big loop up on Engineer Mtn near Durango, and came down Engine Creek and then connected Cascade back to the parking area. Cascades runs along a creek, and goes up, down, up down through a bunch of drainages - so it it hard to see that far in front of you.

I'm a pretty quiet runner...like most people..but certainly not a heavy foot flopper like some others. As I crested one little drainage I saw the back end of two horse riders on top of the next one - and the lead horse rider (NOT the on in the rear - but the one further from me..in the front) let his horse get spooked and it ran off the trail when they heard me. The horse ran downhill into thick brush and since it was steep, obviously the rider was scared.....and then it turned into full on anger/rage/belligerence. He started yelling at me with the classic line of "*stop [email protected]#$%ing running*!" Implying of course that it was my fault for the spooked horse. The irony of course was that yelling at the top of his lungs most likely spooked the horse even more.

I never yelled back, but I did tell him that he needs to control his horse. The other rider pulled over and I ran through. The other rider never said a thing - my guess is he was surprised to see his riding buddy act that way...but that is just a guess.

It took me a while, but I later realized what the issue was. Horse riders are not like mountain bikers....they are not doing 10-20 hours a week on the horse. Not all of these riders should be called equestrians as it implies they know what they are doing. I crept up on two riders and one was spooked - the guy with the limp arms riding his horse. No way should that horse have ran off the trail like that if he knew how hold the reigns. I'm no horse handler, but I would expect that is cowboy 101 for horse riding. Hold the reigns tight at all times.

My point though - you can't control the skill level of horse riders. They are not athletes, and they spend so little time on the horse compared to us on the bikes (or feet, in my case that day). When the make a mistake and they see others, they will invariably get angry and attempt blame elsewhere. In my case all I had to do was yell "Hello" The horse still would have been spooked, but there is no blame shifted to me then in that case. The embarrassed rider here probably still thinks I tried to sneak by them and startled the horses intentionally.

All user groups have skilled individuals, novices and begginers. I'm guessing the moto guy that nearly runs you over; the hiker in full Royal Robbins regalia that yells at you; the downhill MTB rider that runs you off the trail - all are novice/begginers. Understand that and be prepared. Getting angry only ruins the experience.


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## Crash&bern (Aug 23, 2011)

So any view that you don't agree with is narrow minded ?
Shame because I was going to invite you to lunch : )
No one is saying they hate horse riders. I have friends and family that are. 
Like it or not there are bike only trails out there just like there are hiker only trails. 
Respect that fact. There alot of other trails that we can share !
Group hugs everybody : )


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## B-Mac (Oct 2, 2008)

Crash&bern said:


> "hadn't any issues with horses other than poop& trail damage "
> Isn't that enough ?? These are the ONLY issues I have with horses !!
> Other than damaging trails they don't help build or maintain , I'm sure they are very nice people.
> Maybe they can join us in the spring with a shovel & rake


Dude, I hear ya.

Not sure where you live, but a good chunk of our trails here in Ohio are shared with horses. No way we're getting rid of them. Poop is, unfortunately, part of the MTB package here.


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

desrcr said:


> Horses, hikers. Mtbers and OHVers........... they all do trail work,


Horse riders building trails... really!

I don't mind sharing trails if all users can put some time in on building/ maintaining them, but horse riders doing trail work ...I need to see photos or it didn't happen.


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## Pain Freak (Dec 31, 2003)

Riding horses is animal abuse. Pure and simple and there's nothing anyone can say that'll make me think different.

Imagine being a horse. Your instinct is to run free, but what do these equestrians do? The lock you up in a small pen called a corral or if your very lucky they'll give you a pasture to stay in, still not even close to what you'd have if you were free. Then if they do let you out, they throw a heavy saddle on you then some fat arrogant SOB weighing in over 250 pounds who never sees more exercise then lifting a beer to his lips, has the nerve to jump up on you and then literally kicks you in the sides and yanks your head around into the direction they want you to go!

How the hell can these people claim to love horses? At one time they served a purpose for humankind but those days are gone. Riding horses is a crime!


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

Pain Freak said:


> Then if they do let you out, they throw a heavy saddle on you then some fat arrogant SOB weighing in over 250 pounds who never sees more exercise then lifting a beer to his lips, has the nerve to jump up on you and then literally kicks you in the sides and yanks your head around into the direction they want you to go!


 That's it ....I'm off to the bedroom & looking for the spy cam...


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## Pain Freak (Dec 31, 2003)

Don't look for "one".


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## Fischman (Jul 17, 2004)

Wow. I got no use for horses on the trail, but that post is definitely out there. Horses have been domesticated for thousands of years. Since then, they've been bred specifically for riding--they're built for it. While they have no "choice" in the matter, most horses live a pretty plush life--free food, a good place to live, freedom from predators, and in return they have to carry somebody around once in a while. Responsible horse owners take very good care of their animals and they often become some of the most pampered "pets" on the planet. Many horses develop very tight bonds with the owners who are "abusing" them. This whole paragraph does carry the caveat of "responsible" equestrians. If you're obese, you shouldn't ride. If you're not caring for your animal, you shouldn't have one etc. 

Don't worry, nobody's gonna try to pull your PETA card anytime soon.


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## kapaso (Sep 15, 2007)

Fischman said:


> Wow. I got no use for horses on the trail, but that post is definitely out there. Horses have been domesticated for thousands of years. Since then, they've been bred specifically for riding--they're built for it. While they have no "choice" in the matter, most horses live a pretty plush life--free food, a good place to live, freedom from predators, and in return they have to carry somebody around once in a while. Responsible horse owners take very good care of their animals and they often become some of the most pampered "pets" on the planet. Many horses develop very tight bonds with the owners who are "abusing" them. This whole paragraph does carry the caveat of "responsible" equestrians. If you're obese, you shouldn't ride. If you're not caring for your animal, you shouldn't have one etc.
> 
> Don't worry, nobody's gonna try to pull your PETA card anytime soon.


I live in a "horse neighborhood" where you can ride from your home and many people do. I owned horses and just recently finished boarding a horse on my property for a year.

#1 horses may have been bred for thousands of years by people, but they evolved over hundreds of thousands years to roam over wide areas with a large herd.

#2 horses are not pets, and the most neurotic horses are the ones that get treated like a pet, the term "broken" when referring to horse means it will accept a rider, it is a apt term given it usually done with harsh bits that put the horse in pain to gain control. If the horse learns to take the pain and still fights cutting back on feed is also common, cutting back enough to make the animal to weak to fight. These are the kinder methods for "breaking" a horse that doesn't want to be ridden.

#3 horses don't want a "plush" life, they want to roam with a herd, when they are owned they "happiest" when they are worked or ridden everyday

#4 I have never seen a horse that was bonded with the owner, that is so rare it is almost non existent, well trained and bonded are not the same thing

#5 horses take hours of time *everyday* to be well trained and subservient, even then they will do things like take a large breath when you saddle them so the saddle rolls when you get on it

#6 horses are not stupid, most are just unhappy and will try to unseat the rider if given half a chance (horses with problems in behavior are the rule, not the exception)

#7 a freewheel sounds like a rattle snake and can spook even a bombproof horse if the owner has not taken the time to desensitize the horse to that sound


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## Pain Freak (Dec 31, 2003)

It's still a prison to the horse. I believe you are the one that's "out there". Even you, yourself say, though no "choice" in the matter. Try to justify any way you like, you know you will come to the same conclusion if you're honest with yourself.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

desrcr said:


> Most of you guys, I wouldnt eat lunch with. Your narrow minded view of you little piece of the world is disturbing. Horses, hikers. Mtbers and OHVers........... they all do trail work, maybe not with you because who wants to spend any time with a "entitled" ******* like you? I have done signage on OHV trail where equestrians brought all the signs and tools in for us. They found it cool they were able to ride on our trails for this project.
> I'm an odd bird so to speak, I ride my mountain bike in the same area I also ride my motorcycle and horse. No user is MORE entitled then the other, well except the walkers/hikers. They get their feathers ruffled, they seem to be the hardest to get along with. Though I try with due diligence..
> Your losing you public lands to forces that literally hate you and want to exclude you. Why make it easier by seperating yourself from the other users?


I'm all for the "lets all get along" philosophy. What alienates a lot of mtbers is many of the other groups are hell bent upon classifying us with "motorized transport" implying anything "mechanical" is destructive to the environment and does not belong on the trails. Irresponsible and narrow minded members can come from any of the groups, not just the motorized and two wheeled camps, and I don't believe any one group has any more precedence than the others. I am even all for quads and 4x4s in the woods but on _properly_ purpose built trails, just like mtb trails should be properly built sustainable trails.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Pain Freak said:


> Riding horses is animal abuse. Pure and simple and there's nothing anyone can say that'll make me think different.
> 
> Imagine being a horse. Your instinct is to run free, but what do these equestrians do? The lock you up in a small pen called a corral or if your very lucky they'll give you a pasture to stay in, still not even close to what you'd have if you were free. Then if they do let you out, they throw a heavy saddle on you then some fat arrogant SOB weighing in over 250 pounds who never sees more exercise then lifting a beer to his lips, has the nerve to jump up on you and then literally kicks you in the sides and yanks your head around into the direction they want you to go!
> 
> How the hell can these people claim to love horses? At one time they served a purpose for humankind but those days are gone. Riding horses is a crime!


Really? this sounds like the Mike Vandeman of the equestrian world.

Now _Rodeos_......


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## CarolinaLL6 (Apr 12, 2010)

I don't ride where there are horses so this is an interesting read.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

When someone says nothing could possibly change their minds they are just confirming their close mindedness.

For the rest of you, I'd like to share a touching event which unfolded at the Collier Hospice in the Denver area some time ago involving a dying cowboy and two of his closest friends, his horses. I suspect this situation is not entirely unique.

One last goodbye: A cowboy's dying wish | 9news.com

Edit: The video tape of Warren McCoy being greeted by his horses is no longer available. It depicted the behavior of the horses toward Warren quite well. From what I was told the horses immediately recognized Warren and behaved as through they sensed something was wrong with him. They clearly recognized him and greeted him as a friend. Here is a another article on Warren's good bye.

https://yourhub.denverpost.com/arva...ue-horse-whisperer/DTqVaA4HILi6CkLQ3gnkfO-ugc


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## desrcr (Feb 8, 2004)

Cut your dogs and cat loose too I suppose?


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## Fischman (Jul 17, 2004)

#1 horses may have been bred for thousands of years by people, but they evolved over hundreds of thousands years to roam over wide areas with a large herd. 

Ditto for dogs--I don't hear anybody saying all dogs should be released--even working dogs.

Just because you've never seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is even rare--maybe you let your prejudices affect your perception. I once had a horse who loved to run cattle. A local rancher ran some cattle open range, but would allow us to run them back towards his property if they wandered onto ours. This horse would get quite jazzed when this would happen. He actually brought me his bridle and nudged me when he saw the cattle getting near, just as a dog might bring you his leash when he really wants to be taken on a walk. 

Being honest with myself doesn't mean giving in to irrational emotion. 

But hey, I'll be the first to agree the sight of a horse running wild with a herd is a far more beautiful and natural thing than a horse in a barn, trailer or under saddle. Unlike most folks who make a stink, I've actually seen this having spent a great deal of time in Wyoming and Montana. 

At one point in time, my family had horses--now I want nothing to do with it. The resources required to maintain a horse are extravigant (space, feed, vets, ferriers, time, expertise). I find it unconcionably wasteful. I also find it lazy--I much prefer to turn my own cranks to get to the top of the mountain. At the same time, I'm not gonna say the sky is falling just because something doesn't meet my particular aesthetic. We're not talking about child molestation or Michael Vick'isms here.


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

Dogs and horses are people too.


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

Many horses posses two *******s around here. You can do everything reasonably politely and a really good chance the horse will *still* spook and it will *STILL* be your fault... In fact when the rider recalls the event to their friend your speed will be doubled and you'll have consumed about 5 mountain dews before giving in' like a madman.

Get the drift?

You'd think at some point the horse owner would own up to choosing to saddle up on a 6ft tall 1,500lb wild animal and stroll it into mountain biker, hiker and dog populated trails full of unpredictable animals and people, but you know people are funny.


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## Jacknife417 (Nov 10, 2011)

I used to frequent Busiek State Park in Springfield, MO. Stopped going simply because of the horse riding out there. Most trails were being rutted out pretty bad. Never had any bad run in's with rude horse riders though. Around here horse riding attracts the older crowd. 

Good thing is that I have plenty of other trails to choose from!


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## desrcr (Feb 8, 2004)

Intolerance is intolerance, it doesn;t matter which side of the fence your on.
Damn hippies lol


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## GoingOffRoading (Oct 16, 2011)

Am I detecting the same arguments over and over?










(I'm referencing the idiom, not abusing an animal.. FYI)


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

My biggest issue with horse besides the poop, damaging hoof marks, pompous riders is the fact that its a large, heavy dangerous animal. You can't predict or control a horses behavior at all.

If you bring a horse on a trail what's the guarantee that the horse won't tremble a hiker or biker?


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

or they could train their horses not to spook at a mountain bike. Thousands of other equestrians have done so.


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

Jacknife417 said:


> I used to frequent Busiek State Park in Springfield, MO. Stopped going simply because of the horse riding out there. Most trails were being rutted out pretty bad. Never had any bad run in's with rude horse riders though. Around here horse riding attracts the older crowd.
> 
> Good thing is that I have plenty of other trails to choose from!


There is another local trail here that is earning equestrians a bad name, over the years they've taken to all our singletrack and are just chewing it to ****(not to mention leaving it). The worst part is the NEVER come out to trail maintenance day to help fix anything! The parking lot looks like a barn now, hay and horse poop allover.

One year people even put up "no horse" signange to stop them from ruining everything, but they don't care. clomp clomp clomp allover everybody's hard work and not sorry one bit.


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## Jacknife417 (Nov 10, 2011)

electrik said:


> There is another local trail here that is earning equestrians a bad name, over the years they've taken to all our singletrack and are just chewing it to ****(not to mention leaving it). The worst part is the NEVER come out to trail maintenance day to help fix anything! The parking lot looks like a barn now, hay and horse poop allover.
> 
> One year people even put up "no horse" signange to stop them from ruining everything, but they don't care. clomp clomp clomp allover everybody's hard work and not sorry one bit.


I don't have horses but I guess the thinking here is that doing trail maintenance provides no big benefit for them and there horses. But it has to be done because it effects the whole biking experience. Sucks when your constantly avoiding manure and rutted to hell trails. So I avoid trails with equestrians at all costs!


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

Jacknife417 said:


> I don't have horses but I guess the thinking here is that doing trail maintenance provides no big benefit for them and there horses. But it has to be done because it effects the whole biking experience. Sucks when your constantly avoiding manure and rutted to hell trails. So I avoid trails with equestrians at all costs!


It's nice to avoid them, but it is simply not possible here.

Most of the trails here were cut by wildlife, mtb and dirt bikers. Nobody likes the equestrian community, but we have to put up with them because they've got a lot of money to sway the politics. To coin a phrase, they're the 1% ruining it for the 99%.

Nobody is allowed to cut new trails in these forest without permission. The equestrian community didn't cut trails, but they see fit to use what is there.


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## Kliemann53 (Aug 11, 2009)

many of you dont like horses impact on trails. How do you feel about bikes skidding around switch backs? Those are a real pain to fix. When trails get chewed up its because of poor design not the type or amount of use.


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

Kliemann53 said:


> many of you dont like horses impact on trails. How do you feel about bikes skidding around switch backs? Those are a real pain to fix. When trails get chewed up its because of poor design not the type or amount of use.


When it comes to hikers and cyclists, trails get chewed up because _lots_ of people use them. It takes about one afternoon of a horse group to seriously damage a whole trail, particularly if there are switchbacks or waterbars or trails that are benched for cyclists or hikers only.

Frankly I don't see many people skidding around switchbacks or on the trail in general.

How many cyclists have you seen skidding around switchbacks?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Gary H said:


> Horses go back to 30,000 BC


Not on this continent.


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## Jacknife417 (Nov 10, 2011)

electrik said:


> When it comes to hikers and cyclists, trails get chewed up because _lots_ of people use them. It takes about one afternoon of a horse group to seriously damage a whole trail, particularly if there are switchbacks or waterbars or trails that are benched for cyclists or hikers only.
> 
> Frankly I don't see many people skidding around switchbacks or on the trail in general.
> 
> How many cyclists have you seen skidding around switchbacks?


Average weight of horse: 900-1100 lbs. Me and my bike are about 200lbs combined. Who is more likely to tear up the trail?


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Horses are beautiful animals. Some of the people who own them, on the other hand, can be down right ugly. I can say I've experienced most of what everyone's posted--except purposely spooking horses and having a horse ball-check me by eating a grip. I don't think anyone on this board would purposely charge or try to spook an animal; deer, hawk, turkey, eagle, bull, goat, moose...most times we see these creatures in the wild while mtb'ing and its pretty cool. Perspective is needed. 

It would be ideal and make for a cleaner safer experience, if on shared trails/multi-use trails, especially highly used trails, if the BLM/Park District's mandated the use of horse poop bags. We've got one trail here locally where the equistrians actually muck their trailers into the parking lot before they leave. Poop on the trail is one thing, leaving 100's of pounds in the parking lot? Come on...


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

bingemtbr said:


> Horses are beautiful animals. Some of the people who own them, on the other hand, can be down right ugly. I can say I've experienced most of what everyone's posted--except purposely spooking horses and having a horse ball-check me by eating a grip. I don't think anyone on this board would purposely charge or try to spook an animal; deer, hawk, turkey, eagle, bull, goat, moose...most times we see these creatures in the wild while mtb'ing and its pretty cool. Perspective is needed.
> 
> It would be ideal and make for a cleaner safer experience, if on shared trails/multi-use trails, especially highly used trails, if the BLM/Park District's mandated the use of horse poop bags. We've got one trail here locally where the equistrians actually muck their trailers into the parking lot before they leave. Poop on the trail is one thing, leaving 100's of pounds in the parking lot? Come on...


Don't get me started on the poop... haha this summer it was VERY dry and without rain to wash away that horse poop it was collecting and collecting and collecting....



Jacknife417 said:


> Average weight of horse: 900-1100 lbs. Me and my bike are about 200lbs combined. Who is more likely to tear up the trail?


Plus you don't have iron for "tires" but supple inflated rubber instead.


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## Kliemann53 (Aug 11, 2009)

Jacknife417 said:


> Average weight of horse: 900-1100 lbs. Me and my bike are about 200lbs combined. Who is more likely to tear up the trail?


A well built trail can handle the weight of horses no problem. you should contact IMBA and learn to build better trails. Then you can spend more time riding and less time fixing.


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

electrik said:


> ...Frankly I don't see many people skidding around switchbacks or on the trail in general.
> 
> How many cyclists have you seen skidding around switchbacks?


Me, every chance I get.:thumbsup::thumbsup: It is soooo much fun to come screaming into a corner, lock 'em up and fishtail all over the place,:eekster: losing all forward momentum, end up being pointed the wrong way and then having to get youself sorted, then back on the gas HARD so you can do it again the next corner!!!!!:skep::nono::madman:

In reality, I don't see too many totally blown out corners either. When they happen it is usually after a nice speedy section, and people come in too hot and grab a shipload of shimano. Happens in berms as well - about half way thru is where you see the skids. They are not up on the berm, but at the bottom. Come in too hot, not in the berm, start to slide or get loose, and grab a bunch of brake. IMHO, it is more a case of inexperience/too much enthusiasm rather than malicious intent.

As for horses, not too much problem here, but there is sign. I grew up around them, my sister and neice both ride, and used to own. I have no issues with a properly trained horse and rider. BUT I have no problems responding to some DB who is blaming their poor horsemanship and/or unsuitable ride on me, especially if it is in a restricted area.

michael


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

The problem with horse people is that they’re like a bunch of 12-stepping, vegan, non-smokers that show up uninvited at a Texas oil-field bar, and expect the bar to stop serving, the patrons to smoke outside, and the guy on the grill to create a new menu for them. 

And then they poop in the middle of the dance floor. 

Expecting ultimate deference from all other trail users is just plain unrealistic. Stuff happens. If your skittish, incontinent beast cant handle it you should not take to an uncontrolled environment.


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## Jacknife417 (Nov 10, 2011)

Waffles^^


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## hopsalot (Apr 12, 2008)

Why do so many people strap themselves to an animal that they have seemingly no control over and that tries to kill them at the sight of a field mouse much less another human?


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## shamethellama (Aug 21, 2011)

Dude...'sall good!


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## hazmazk (Nov 6, 2011)

this is what horses do to the trails :madman:


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## shamethellama (Aug 21, 2011)

I wouldn't care about that one bit. ^^^ Those trails have obviously been used by cars or ATVs anyways, and that says to me that it's multi-use and you should just find someplace that is bicycle specific if that is so detrimental to your ride.


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## kizer2009 (Oct 11, 2010)

*"OCCUPY" Single Track*

Have you read article in Bicycle Magazines "Poacher's Paradox" by Mike Ferrentino Nov issue?

In response I thought it would be fun to make "Occupy" Single Track T-shirts and it goes along with what your saying. I totally agree with you!

I posted my shirts on MTBR website under classified-clothing or check out my profile.


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## hazmazk (Nov 6, 2011)

shamethellama said:


> I wouldn't care about that one bit. ^^^ Those trails have obviously been used by cars or ATVs anyways, and that says to me that it's multi-use and you should just find someplace that is bicycle specific if that is so detrimental to your ride.


I saw that and thought of this thread, it doesnt bother me just thought it was worth posting, it was actually from parents this morning when they went for a ride.


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## shamethellama (Aug 21, 2011)

hazmazk said:


> I saw that and thought of this thread, it doesnt bother me just thought it was worth posting, it was actually from parents this morning when they went for a ride.


Gotcha. I have this trail that I really like, kind of a backwoods trail. The ironic thing is that ATV riders are the best and worst part of the trail. They actually made a lot of the trails, and they also destroy a lot of them (for mountain bikers, that is). Oh well, lol.


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## hazmazk (Nov 6, 2011)

i know what you mean, and sometimes the best line last week, can become the worst line to take this week. It sees alot of horses and they chop it all up. I love MTBing and love horses. Maybe more of a love, hate relationship. I secretly love MTBing more.


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## sunringlerider (Sep 18, 2011)

Ok so for some crazy reason I just read most of this thread. The biggest problem I see with horses on the trails I ride is that they tear the heck out of the trails, and do you think there are every any horse riders at the trail work days? Not a chance is he11. Also as someone who has grown up around horses. moto, farms, all that crap. . . if your horse is so jumpy that a bike riding by will spook it? You need to ride in the area a lot more.


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

sunringlerider said:


> Ok so for some crazy reason I just read most of this thread. The biggest problem I see with horses on the trails I ride is that they tear the heck out of the trails, and do you think there are every any horse riders at the trail work days? Not a chance is he11. Also as someone who has grown up around horses. moto, farms, all that crap. . . if your horse is so jumpy that a bike riding by will spook it? You need to ride in the area a lot more.


For some horses the bike doesn't even have to be riding by on the same trail either(in this case 30m of bush)... try to figure that one out.


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## davewinters (Feb 16, 2008)

*My daughter rides*

My daughter rides horses, she says they are not too smart, thats why its best to give them some room. I usually dismount unless its a wide trail. But then I'm 56 and can use the rest anyway.

The horse people have a more defined culture and etiquette and I think thats why they sometimes come off as snooty and such, but they were trail building before mountain bikes were thought of and we benefit from their earlier efforts.

I don't hate equestrians, but my preference is to ride where they aren't. One persons recreation is not intrinsically superior to anothers. There are more places to ride than I have time to try them.

The is only one thing I ask of the horse folk, pick up after your pet. It ought to be a law on public lands. (fat chance)


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

*Yeah, but*

I despise the damage, the droppings, and, especially, the attitude of some horse riders as much as anyone and sure wish they just had their own trails.

When a horse person, ah or not, comes along, I get off the bike and move off the trail. And I say a polite "howdy" if they're not in the ah crowd. I do this because to spook the horse can damage the rider as much as our rides can damage us - up to and including death. None of us have a right to pose this kind of hazard to anyone else. Even if the real problem is how poorly the horse behaves.

Calculated soil pressures of different users of trails:

200 lb person hiking, one foot rolled onto ball of foot: Approx 10 square inches

20 lbs/square inch

200 lb person, 30 lb bike: Two wheels each having a contact area of approximately 5 square inches for 10 square inches total

23 lbs/square inch

200 lb person, 1000 lb horse (light riding horse): Two hoofs in contact, 15 square inches each for a total of 30 square inches

40 lbs/square inch


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

telemike said:


> Calculated soil pressures of different users of trails:
> 
> 200 lb person hiking, one foot rolled onto ball of foot: Approx 10 square inches
> 
> ...


The horse wears two thinner steel shoes. I would doubt these shoes have 10 square inch combined so the resulting pressure is more like 120 psi - over top of a steel edge.


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## Gary H (Dec 16, 2006)

I like bush!


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

Gary H said:


> I like bush!












Do tell.


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## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

Heheheh, last week as I was coming around a corner carrying a pretty good head of steam I came across an equestrian. He was standing off to the side of the trail unzipped and peeing. As I hit the brakes and got just a little bit of brake warble his horse took off :thumbsup: I stopped for just a second, saw the look on the riders face and took off!  An hour or so later I saw the horse about a mile from where the incident occurred. A little while after that I got to the trailhead and the rider was sitting there with the sheriff so I turned around and headed back into the woods for a little while longer. When I finally came back out there was a note on my windshield that I should choose the places I ride more carefully and if I can't be a responsible user of our public lands I should just stay away...


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

What is your point?


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

gravitylover said:


> Heheheh, last week as I was coming around a corner carrying a pretty good head of steam I came across an equestrian. He was standing off to the side of the trail unzipped and peeing. As I hit the brakes and got just a little bit of brake warble his horse took off :thumbsup: I stopped for just a second, saw the look on the riders face and took off!  An hour or so later I saw the horse about a mile from where the incident occurred. A little while after that I got to the trailhead and the rider was sitting there with the sheriff so I turned around and headed back into the woods for a little while longer. When I finally came back out there was a note on my windshield that I should choose the places I ride more carefully and if I can't be a responsible user of our public lands I should just stay away...


Haha - You probably shouldn't have left the guy there, but then it's not really your intent to make the horse run away. It would be the same as somebody's loose dog chasing you around and the owner leaving you a note to not come to the forest so the dog can't chase you. Pretty backwards, no need to worry about the sheriff unless you were poaching the trail.

If the note was funny enough:
PassiveAggressiveNotes.com


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## JGguns (Nov 20, 2011)

mtbnoobadam said:


> I've encountered equestrians a few times on one of the local trails and its always the same people. Whenever I come across them I get off the trail and stop. I've never had a problem with the riders at all however one of their horses is an a$$hole. The first time I came across them the rider asked me if it was ok for his horse to check out my bike since this was the first time he had been around one. I said sure no problem and as I'm sitting there straddling my bike this horse bites my handlebar grip and lifts the bike up smashing the top tube into my nuts. Needless to say I dismount every time we meet on the trail now.


Assuming there was no serious injurys this was hilarious!


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## BORDERCOLLIE (Sep 1, 2011)

when we tend to lump all equestrians together there is the problem, we mountain bikers are not all *******s....right?.That said, horses have been banned from many trails here in Boise due to heavy damage when the trails are muddy, horse people tend not to volunteer time fro trail maintainence.


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## ankewolfpaw (Jan 28, 2015)

Timo said:


> I had an incident while trail running last fall that I think illustrates some of the things to be aware of when encountering horse riders.
> 
> I was finishing up a big loop up on Engineer Mtn near Durango, and came down Engine Creek and then connected Cascade back to the parking area. Cascades runs along a creek, and goes up, down, up down through a bunch of drainages - so it it hard to see that far in front of you.
> 
> ...


Hey, as an equestrian, I figured I may be able to help out a bit. I think the first start to having fun on the trails is understanding one another, try standing in their shoes. I have been riding horses for 10 years, since I was two. One of the most stomach churning things you can hear from a non horse person is that is not a sport. *sigh* I can not say the same for ALL equestrian, but I ride everyday for two hours (on two different horses). That's 14 hours a week. Also, riding requires leg strength to the point where "massage therapists" are needed multiple times a week. Heck, I am 12 years old and see a massage therapist. Also, riding is not the only thing that requires blood sweat and tears, lifting water buckets! Average 50 pounds per bucket, two buckets at a time, climbing hills, etc.

MIND: horses have their own minds and are not machines! You do not point and they just go! No way. They do not feel like doing something, they ain't doing it. They are average of 1,000 pounds and can clobber you at any second.

Horses have a natural fight or flight instinct. If they hear a loud noise, such as a atv, motocross vehicle (I do apologize, I do not know much about your vehicles) they go in panic mode if they have not heard it before and will either rear (front legs come off the ground and stand like a human) or buck (same as rear but reversed, back legs) and bite, kick, etc. Other option (more common) is to flee, gallop off.

Holding the reins (for future reference if ever needed: it is reins, not reigns) has nothing to do with it. If you hold on tight, your horse can become uncomfortable and easily irritated which can again lead to rearing, bucking, etc. Also, do you think you, a 120 pound person (at most 170ish) and a thin piece of leather and metal is going to stop a 1000 pound animal from bolting?

Naw.

On the flip side, any equestrian who blames the scenario on you is down right stupid. If they have a horse, they are responsible for any actions the horse does. Not you. However, when horses are first introduced to trails who offer motor vehicles, there are going to be some spooks and falls. But, they can not blame you.

I noticed above that you said "he let the horse spook". If a 1,000 pound animal wants to spook, he will.

I hope this did help, honest. I feel kind of out of place, being a 12 year old who is trying to work out a problem. But I do think this is a misunderstanding between both sides.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

ankewolfpaw said:


> MIND: horses have their own minds and are not machines! You do not point and they just go! No way. They do not feel like doing something, they ain't doing it. They are average of 1,000 pounds and can clobber you at any second.
> 
> Horses have a natural fight or flight instinct. If they hear a loud noise, such as a atv, motocross vehicle (I do apologize, I do not know much about your vehicles) they go in panic mode if they have not heard it before and will either rear (front legs come off the ground and stand like a human) or buck (same as rear but reversed, back legs) and bite, kick, etc. Other option (more common) is to flee, gallop off.
> 
> Holding the reins (for future reference if ever needed: it is reins, not reigns) has nothing to do with it. If you hold on tight, your horse can become uncomfortable and easily irritated which can again lead to rearing, bucking, etc. Also, do you think you, a 120 pound person (at most 170ish) and a thin piece of leather and metal is going to stop a 1000 pound animal from bolting?


Thanks for confirming my suspicions that horses are dangerous, unpredictable, and never really under complete control. That's why I feel they shouldn't be on multi-use trails. Also, poop.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Only ever come across horses on a gravel road that we used to get to another trail... We slowed down and let em through, no thank you or anything... didn't worry us we were having fun.

FYI - I'm hung like a horse =)

Sent from my Kin[G]_Pad ™


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

spsoon said:


> thanks for confirming my suspicions that horses are dangerous, unpredictable, and never really under complete control. That's why i feel they shouldn't be on multi-use trails. Also, poop.


ftw!


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## lbro (Nov 28, 2014)

I often ride a trail system that is frequented by horses and I've never had an issue with any of the riders. If you're polite, they'll return the sentiment. There are other trails near by, which are both better for mountain biking and not as popular for horseback riding, but I often find myself at the horse laden trail because I'm also allowed to have my dog off leash when riding. I simply pull off to the side and slow down to a crawl or completely stop, and instruct the dog to do the same and I'm always greeted with a smile and a thanks. My only gripe is I can't get my dog to stop eating the delicious candy the horses leave all over the trail. Be kind. Pass it on.


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## BobbyWilliams (Aug 3, 2004)

You can tell this thread is dated. A lot has changed since 2011. Newer horses now are sporting larger shoes with a greater contact patch that make them float over trail obstacles much easier. This leads to less trail damage from horses. Also saddle position has changed the geometry of the riding position and because of this horses have become much more enduro. Next time your hanging out at the horse park check out some of the jumps and drops these guys can do!!

When I see a horse on the trail, instead of slowing down, I get a big grin, give a friendly wave and shout,race you to the end! They don't always take me up on it but when they do... its EPIC!

We need a good YouTube edit of a mountain bike vs. horse enduro race.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

That's OK, OP. I'm sure somebody hates you equally for reasons that to them are just as justified as yours are to you. Their hate brings them just as much unhappiness and anger as yours does to.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I asked my wife if she knew that horses were allowed in the State Park. She said that would be great when the horse freaked out. In other words, she couldn't believe that anyone would be that stupid.

I was brought up with milking cows. Cows do not kick each other, kick out walls, or kick out fence rails. If you picked up a cows foot you would get kicked. I have to walk in a stall and put my head between the horses foot and the wall to clean out their feet. Guess who has to lead the craziest horses out to the paddock because he is bigger and stronger than most of the girls at the barn. Guess who got dragged across the driveway on his face one day. I have learned to hate all weather. Cannot be too hot, cannot be too cold, cannot be icy, cannot be windy, cannot be buggy, cannot be muddy, and God help us if the weather should change(sun coming out, start raining, get windy etc). Don't ever tell anyone that you hate horses. That makes you an evil person.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Adam_B. said:


> I've encountered equestrians a few times on one of the local trails and its always the same people. Whenever I come across them I get off the trail and stop. I've never had a problem with the riders at all however one of their horses is an a$$hole. The first time I came across them the rider asked me if it was ok for his horse to check out my bike since this was the first time he had been around one. I said sure no problem and as I'm sitting there straddling my bike this horse bites my handlebar grip and lifts the bike up smashing the top tube into my nuts. Needless to say I dismount every time we meet on the trail now.


heh heh heh heh...


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

misterbill said:


> Don't ever tell anyone that you hate horses. That makes you an evil person.


Great logic. Did you go to law school?

Oh I still f-cking hate horses so just call me Charles Manson.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

VTSession said:


> Great logic. Did you go to law school?
> Oh I still f-cking hate horses so just call me Charles Manson.


Not 100% sure I understand the question, and it is difficult to explain the answer. People cannot grasp the idea that a person doesn't like horses, and equate that to someone would be cruel to them(I think). Kind of like the person who lives for their dog cannot understand why I would not like if their wonderful beautiful lovely dream dog puts its dirty paws on my clean clothes and have to smell its dog breath on my face. You know-I am obviosly an evil person if I do not love their dog.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

gravitylover said:


> Heheheh, last week as I was coming around a corner carrying a pretty good head of steam I came across an equestrian. He was standing off to the side of the trail unzipped and peeing. As I hit the brakes and got just a little bit of brake warble his horse took off :thumbsup: I stopped for just a second, saw the look on the riders face and took off!  An hour or so later I saw the horse about a mile from where the incident occurred. A little while after that I got to the trailhead and the rider was sitting there with the sheriff so I turned around and headed back into the woods for a little while longer. When I finally came back out there was a note on my windshield that I should choose the places I ride more carefully and if I can't be a responsible user of our public lands I should just stay away...


Not sure if you are still around(posted 11/2011)I woke up thinking about this this morning. This is totally not your fault, my wife says wrong time wrong place. My second thought was, who would the police believe, the guy that said some crazy biker came at me and I fell off my horse, or you telling the truth. The note on the windshield proves you probably would have been blamed.


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## JonMX5 (Dec 22, 2011)

If you can't control your animal then you shouldn't be bringing it out in public around other people or animals whether it's a dog, horse, whatever.

If I'm a person with severe mental instabilities who may assault someone that looks at me the wrong way, should I be locked up in a mental facility or should I live a normal life and just force all of you to stay 20 feet away from me at all times because I might snap if you get any closer?

The fact that we and any other user of a public trail has to cater to a specific group who _chooses_ to ride stupid and dangerous animals is f-ing insane.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

This thread is useless without pics. I live in an area that shares trails and the entire trail is a mud pit.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Rod said:


> This thread is useless without pics. I live in an area that shares trails and the entire trail is a mud pit.


How about a video with horse interaction. I had a friendly conversation with them mid ride off camera. And then saw them at the end of my ride. Right after seeing them mid ride I came across a bee hive drilled into the dirt in the center of the trail. The horses had went right through it about a half hour before me. I took a break after my first encounter with the horses and upon resuming my ride I came across the bee hive. That's in the beginning of the video. At the end is where I questioned them if they noticed the bee hive. To my disbelief they went right through the 30' section of bee infestation without even noticing them. Some friendly equestrians and I try to keep good relations with all other trail users.

Bobcat Ridge Sunday 6-29-14 #2 Video - Pinkbike


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

VTSession said:


> I rode yesterday at a state park that has a well signed 8 mile mountain bike loop. This park has miles and miles of trails but only one loop designed by bikers and built for mountain bikes.
> 
> I'm riding down a hill and I approached two people on horseback. I slow down and let them pass. I refrained from making a comment that the mountain bike loop is probably the most dangerous place to riding horses. Not to mention this was a busy Saturday with bikers all over this trail
> 
> ...


For those moments carry an air horn.

.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

On Friday out riding I came across two horses/riders... as soon as I saw them I stopped to the side of the trail, made no noise, just sat and had a drink from my back pack. As the riders approached and passed me they were patting and consoling their horses as if they had just come upon Jack The Ripper!? I smiled and continued on with my ride...

-------------------------------------
Opinions are like A-holes... everybody 
has one & they're usually full of...??


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

targnik said:


> As the riders approached and passed me they were patting and consoling their horses as if they had just come upon Jack The Ripper!?


On a bright sunny day, probably in the late afternoon, we had horses at our barn that were absolutely unridable. They would see their shadow in front of them in the riding ring and they would have a complete panic attack. They would throw their heads up in the air, swerve and run sideways. The kids would have to lead the horses back to the barn.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

My point exactly... They're all mad!

Sent from my Kin[G]_Pad ™


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Horse damage


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Human damage-









Them horsies are getting a bum rap.


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## huang (Aug 21, 2015)

Ok I'm totally new to the sport of MBing what is the "proper" way to deal with equestrians.
If I hear them behind me and I pull over I'm most likely going to pass them again, so that makes no sense to me. If they are in front of me and I slow down to pass them is that "bad" should I walk the bike past them. Just, as a newbie I want do it right, and treat all people with respect (even ass hats). Like it was said earlier blind corners are what they are. I'm risking a face full of horse ass, and they are risking me being on the trail, it is what it is.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

huang said:


> Ok I'm totally new to the sport of MBing what is the "proper" way to deal with equestrians.
> If I hear them behind me and I pull over I'm most likely going to pass them again, so that makes no sense to me. If they are in front of me and I slow down to pass them is that "bad" should I walk the bike past them. Just, as a newbie I want do it right, and treat all people with respect (even ass hats). Like it was said earlier blind corners are what they are. I'm risking a face full of horse ass, and they are risking me being on the trail, it is what it is.


When you come upon them coming at you stop and step off the trail to the downhill side. Always step off to the downhill side. Horses have a natural instinct of predictors such as mountain lions who attack from the uphill side. They see or feel your presence up there and could spook. Let them pass and mosey on down the trail always before you mount up and continue on.

If you come upon them going the same direction stop and let your presence be known verbally. Be polite and they will pull off and let you by. Do not go by until they let you know it's alright to do so. They know their horses and will know when it's okay to pass. Dismount and walk your bike past them a good 30' and then mount up and be on your way. Say thank you and have a nice day in all scenarios.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

huang said:


> Ok I'm totally new to the sport of MBing what is the "proper" way to deal with equestrians.
> If I hear them behind me and I pull over I'm most likely going to pass them again, so that makes no sense to me. If they are in front of me and I slow down to pass them is that "bad" should I walk the bike past them. Just, as a newbie I want do it right, and treat all people with respect (even ass hats). Like it was said earlier blind corners are what they are. I'm risking a face full of horse ass, and they are risking me being on the trail, it is what it is.


Thanks for asking.....the Equestrian will usually let you know how to proceed.

Most will appreciate you stopping. Some will let you know that it is safe to ride by slowly. Some would prefer that you walk your bike.

Be friendly and most will be as well.


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## jpre (Jan 15, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> When you come upon them coming at you stop and step off the trail to the downhill side.


That's interesting. I don't think I've heard that before. A week ago I and a riding friend came across a horse rider leading another horse coming the other way on a narrow trail with good sightlines so I saw them from a way off. Since I run into few equestrians I generally dismount and let them pass before going on my way. I randomly stopped on the downhill side of the trail and the rider tried to get his horses to go above us. The lead horse was having none of it and went out of its way to go to the downhill side and around. The guy I was riding with said it looked like the horse rider had good handling skills as it seemed he had his hands full with keeping the 3 of them upright and under control. Not a problem for me as I just stood there. I hope the experience was ok for the horse guy. I wasn't trying to make trouble for him.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

F


jpre said:


> That's interesting. I don't think I've heard that before. A week ago I and a riding friend came across a horse rider leading another horse coming the other way on a narrow trail with good sightlines so I saw them from a way off. Since I run into few equestrians I generally dismount and let them pass before going on my way. I randomly stopped on the downhill side of the trail and the rider tried to get his horses to go above us. The lead horse was having none of it and went out of its way to go to the downhill side and around. The guy I was riding with said it looked like the horse rider had good handling skills as it seemed he had his hands full with keeping the 3 of them upright and under control. Not a problem for me as I just stood there. I hope the experience was ok for the horse guy. I wasn't trying to make trouble for him.


Hmm that is strange and unexplainable. They are animals with minds of their own and each have different personalities and past experiences that alter their behavior. The natural instinct is for them to fear a live creature above them. A predatory natural instinct response to avoid such an encounter.


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