# Up-armoring for All-Mountain, or How I bought a Fox Titan Sport Jacket



## JXG (Oct 9, 2013)

All-Mountain is "More than XC, less than DH/FR". To me that means this kind of riding:








I know I enjoy it, and I expect to do this step and others hundreds or thousands of times over the next 10 years. I also know that inevitably I am going to fall and it is going to hurt.

So I have decided to wear what to me is a reasonable level of armor. I'm wearing it in this photo. It allows me to joke about, "These are not the droids I am looking for". It also allows me--up to a point--to walk away from pain and medical bills.

That's the short story. In the long post below I explain what I've learned with and without pain, my gear research, and what I've decided is right for me. It may or may not be interesting or relevant to others....

Part 1, technical trail. I've only been doing technical riding for five months but I took a conservative approach after the first weekend when I knew I was hooked. This paid off after about three months on a narrow trail with a steep cross slope. Creeping along with an arroyo about 8 feet below, I was concentrating on some snow patches when a pedal caught on something. In a flash I was over the bank and going face first into cobbles in the arroyo. Fortunately I was wearing a Giro full-face, gloves, and soft elbow and knee/shin pads. Some aches but nothing much. Looking at the gouges in the front of the helmet I wondered how much dental work that would have been.

Lesson 1: You don't have to be moving fast to get hurt.

Part 2, light AM: I got a 29'er FS bike with a dropper seat post and my attack position got faster and more aggressive. By month 4 I was really getting into the chunky stuff. Mostly riding over embedded boulders along the trail and carefully working my way up to about 24-inch vertical steps. I went over the bars a couple times onto relatively soft surfaces at the 12-18 inch stage. It was not fun but my soft padding again prevented injury. 

As I spent more hours sessioning up and down bedrock steps and slopes I enjoyed the rapid growth of skills. But I knew it was only a matter of time until some little thing went wrong and I was going over the bars. And that bedrock was going to hurt real bad. It was time to up-armor.

First up, hands and wrists. There are some scary posts on Mtbr.com about the scaphoid bone and how difficult it is to heal. I'd probably wear IMC Allsport dynamic braces but US$400 for a pair&#8230; I'm just not there. And I hope never to be. I've settled for Troy Lee 5205 wrist braces $70/pair. I've worn similar braces through many snowboard falls and they help a lot. These are comfortable enough that I'll probably wear them most of the time. 

Gloves: I typically use Specialized BG Gel Long gloves $40. Recently I got some Mechanix Wear SHD-91-010 Safety M-Pact ORHD (Oil Rig Heavy Duty!) $36 for more protection when the risk of falling is higher. They have a rubber exoskeleton on top that absorbs a lot of finger pain.

Boots. I had accepted the "Flat pedal manifesto" viewpoint https://www.bikejames.com/strength/im-really-not-anti-clipless-pedals-im-pro-flat-pedals/

So I was already wearing FiveTen Men's Impact High Shoe $110 for ankle support and impact protection, combined with the Xpedo Face Off Pedal XMX13 $70. I like more of a boot when I am in the back country vs. a low shoe that doesn't protect the ankles and lets in debris.

Next up, knees. I have age-related degeneration but no hospital-grade injuries, surgeries, or replacements. Hoping to keep them that way. Leatt Dual-Axis knee / shin guards $90 get good reviews and as soon as I tried them at the LBS I was sold. And they had the same price as Amazon, so I was happy to spend locally. A couple rides showed these stay in position and provide great protection including occasional shin strikes which are part of riding flat pedals. We'll see what happens when temperatures go over 90 but I think I'll be wearing these on every ride.

Neck brace? The LBS guy mentioned that full-face helmets seem to increase neck injuries. I did some reading. This post on Mtbr.com was particularly interesting: "I actually sold my Leatt DBX Pro Carbon brace. There is no objective data on its benefit (I am a Physician, and Physics/Engineering major in undergrad). I think it does help, but only in certain situations&#8230; Wearing a brace that possibly only protects three or four vertebrae (C4, C5, C6, +/- one level), but eschewing a back and chest protector that prevents against another 17+ vertebrae, adds cardiac and pulmonary protection, shoulder protection (the most common serious injury is to the clavicle), and with a normal helmet, also protects against hyperflexion injury of the neck....well, that doesn't make sense." I also noticed the market seems centered on motocross, BMX, and downhill. We're talking serious velocities: 30 to 40 MPH and more. I ride slow. I'm passing on a neck brace for now, subject to new data but hopefully not painful learning.

Padded pants: I settled on the Crash Pads 1300 $90. Basically cycling shorts with some pads to protect the hips. The Crash Pads 1200 $120 long pants had thin, soft knee/shin pads that moved around easily. A reviewer on Mtbr.com said, "Knee shin pads all but worthless." No way I was trusting my virginal knees to those. I sent them back and wear the shorts in conjunction with the Leatt knee/shin guards which stay firmly in place. I expect to wear these except for really hot rides with few hazards.

Chest armor. Now things get interesting. I'll mention here that I found the XSportsProtective.com staff suggestions helpful and the prices competitive, so I bought from them. When journeying over the bars I had scraped up my shoulders and back, so I wanted hard shoulder pads if at all tolerable. I always wear long sleeves for solar, vegetation, and scrape protection so I wanted those along with elbow and forearm pads. Again, hard was highly desirable because when I hit that rock there was going to be lots of energy in play and I wanted it spread out.

I considered three options:

1. The POC VPD 2.0 Jacket (typically $300 but can be found for less) is light and thin, but has high-tech "dough" that hardens on impact. Apparently this is pretty impressive in action and the jacket achieves a motorcycle rating. But I found an Amazon review that turned me away: "The arm protection is next to useless for mountain biking... I've injured my arms twice in two weeks now where my old Raceface full arm guards would have shrugged off injury. It's not possible to wear arm guards over the POC elbows as there is still too much bulk."

2. The Vigilante Air Body Armor ($75) is more of a "minimalist" padded jacket than the Fox Titan, but it does have smallish external pads that are flexible not hard. It has thumb loops to keep the sleeves from sliding up; more on thumb loops later. Minimalist sounded nice for riding but not for falling. I decided this would be a good Plan B if the Titan was too much.

3. The Fox Titan Sport Jacket is very popular. The market, naturally, skews towards BMX and DH. It has hard plastic plates so it is more armor than padded shirt for sure. But it is very well-designed with the plates set into a mesh vest that zips up the front. At 3.5 lbs (1.6 Kg) you are not going to mistake it for Lycra, but out of the box it seemed tolerable. (I don't know what the POC and Vigilante weigh.) I took it out for a test ride.

The ride was a short technical loop where I did a couple 8-inch steps and also sessions on bedrock surfaces and boulders with up to 14-inch drops. I wore the Titan over top of a MaksBike "Men's Winter Cycling Shirt" $30. The temperature was about 60 degrees F (16 C) and--guess what--I could tell I was wearing more than Lycra. But those hard plastic plates looked really good. I could visualize them spreading impact in a way that soft pads do not. And this loop was exactly the kind of riding, repeated over many days and hours, where eventually I am going down hard. So I decided that I was probably going to buy the Titan. But the tags were still in it and I could send it back. 

The second test ride explored the question of when a trail is long and benign enough to take the Titan off. I set off on a 12 mile trail with embedded boulders and a few steps up to perhaps 14 inches. The temperature was again unseasonably warm: about 60 degrees. This time I wore a Campmor Supplex shirt over top of the Titan. Supplex is the somewhat cotton-like travel and hiking fabric that dries quickly. It's not terribly breathable but offers good solar protection, and I did not have anything else large enough to fit over the Titan. (The Titan "large" fits my 39-inch chest well and enlarges it to 44-inches.)

This combination was warm. I don't think it would be pleasant in the 80s and 90s. So I took the Campmor shirt off and climbed up the trail with just the Titan on. The black mesh is pretty open and my navel was visible when I sat up, but I was styling.

This was more comfortable. There were warmish spots at chest and kidneys but air would get underneath and they would cool off. I rode techie sections back and forth multiple times, smacking the bash guard and stopping myself from going over the bars a couple times. This was a trail ride with elevated risk of injury, so I was pleased that the Titan was bearable. I suspected that wearing the Titan over a very thin Lycra jersey would add wicking and solar protection while still being tolerable on longer, hotter rides. Not exploratory trail rides where I am being cautious, but anything where I seek out technical obstacles. (I have since purchased an "Xcel Men's Premium 6-Ounce Long Sleeve Top" $35 and it feels perfect under the Titan.)

Testing done, I ate and headed downhill. There was this irresistible boulder just ahead. It looked to be only about 10 inches on the downhill side, so I did not bother to drop the seat. The approach was trickier than expected so I got into partial attack position very late. The front wheel dropped and stopped. I went over the bars onto hardpack.

Testing resumed. My left knee impacted. The Leatt stayed perfectly in place and dissipated all the energy. It was like magic.

Next came the left arm. The Titan forearm and elbow plates gouged and slid, spreading the force out nicely. Unfortunately, the whole sleeve then slid up and exposed my elbow to a bloody and painful scrape. 

Finally down came the heel of my right hand which was a sore for a bit but protected against abrasion at least by the Specialized glove.

I had just bought the Titan jacket.

This was an interesting little mishap. It was not a particularly difficult or hazardous obstacle compared to what I had just been riding. I got a little technical, I got a little complacent, and consequences followed. It showed again that even a minor fall onto hard surfaces at very slow speed can cause injury. Those gouges in the plates took energy to create, so the armor definitely prevented much more painful and possibly even serious elbow injury. (And the friend who debrided my elbow said a physician would have charged $200 for this service, so even this "minor" scrape was non-trivial.)

Lesson 2: You don't have to be moving fast to get hurt.

The only thing I was not pleased about was the Titan's sleeve. I don't think the forearm straps were tight enough. And yes, I should have been wearing something over or under it. But I'm not sure either would have prevented the movement. Later I took some spare ½-inch nylon tubular webbing and sewed on thumb loops. These fit loosely under my gloves but will keep the Titan sleeves from sliding up. I have suggested that Fox incorporate thumb loops.

I like this gear. Or more accurately, I like what this gear prevents. In other words I'm willing to pay the up-front costs for deferred gratification of reduced injury. MTB is expensive and my ER visit deductible alone is $500 so I consider the gear to be basically free. The money is spent so I might as well wear the gear. Of course there is weight to bear and yet more gear to haul around and take care of--whatever. 

As the season heats up I'll pay more cost in sweat and discomfort. But I suspect I'll up-armor more than I'll down-armor. Technical mountain biking has many technical aesthetics. The ping of a tubeless tire rebounding off chunk. The smooth deceleration as a rear shock absorbs a drop. And the sweet feel as that Leatt took most of my body weight and dissipated it harmlessly. Not something I want to do often but it will be aesthetically pleasing when it comes again. And it will come again.


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## B-Mac (Oct 2, 2008)

Man, do whatever makes you happy - but Dang that's a ton of gear just for a trail ride. Full face, armor suit, padded pants, wrist guards, knees/shins, boots - did I miss anything?

How long does it take you to strap all that stuff on??

Does anyone ever approach you and say "these are not the droids you're looking for?"

Sorry, just kidding. But seriously - is a scuffed knee really worth all that?? Most of that gear is intended to dissipate impact for guys who are flying down hills & over jumps. Rock crawling - you tend to just kind of fall over. Even if you go over the bars in the rocks, it's not that bad when you're going really slow. Also doubt that armoring yourself to the bejeezus would help with the type of injury you'll get while rock crawling - other than the previously-mentioned scuffed knee. 

Glad you're hitting the techy stuff & always do your own thang, but man, I'd sweat my bells off in all that stuff.


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## JXG (Oct 9, 2013)

> did I miss anything?

Light saber and R2D2 in the back


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## mattnmtns (Sep 16, 2010)

Wow that's a lot of gear. Where are you riding? Have any pics? By all means wear what you feel comfortable with.

I'm guilty of not wearing enough. I had a close call two weekends ago. Coming down some granit slick rock there is a spot that has a big divot or washout hole the perfect size to swallow up a 29er tire. No big deal, I knew exactly where it was so I went at close to full speed. I have done it before, just manual over it and it will actually launch you. 

Well I apparently manualed a little too early and didn't hold it long enough. Front tire got swallowed and over the bars I went. Just my helmet which did its job. I did a pretty good job rolling except I couldn't get one of my hands clear in time. Dislocated my pinky finger and the one next to it as I rolled. Hearing your finger pop out of joint isn't what you want to hear. . I went through one full roll and banged my knees up pretty bad. Sitting there wondering if my fingers where broken, out of joint or what have you, I finally got the courage to take my glove off. Luckily they had popped back into place.

So yeah, anything can happen in an instant. Especially when you are pushing your boundaries.

I see what some people are riding with full protection and compare that to what I am riding and yeah it makes me think I am way under geared. Definitely going to invest in some knee pads and elbow pads, and keep practicing how to crash properly!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Even though I am a huge fan of safety gear in general (I've got a couple seriously dinged-up Dainese shuttle suits in my garage, along with cracked FF helmets, and all sorts of knee and shin pads that look like they've tangled with a pissed off badger), I've gotta say I also think you might be over-gearing based on what you're riding. Which is totally up to you of course, but wearing a lot of gear can be kind of restrictive IMO, not to mention hot as hell. And I'm not sure if there's any way you could up-armor more. 

I think what I might do if I were you is gear down some. Light to medium duty knee/shin pads, gloves, and if you really prefer a FF helmet, maybe something on the lighter duty side like one of those Urge enduro ones. Carve out some time to find a 'safe' spot you can learn how to do small drops confidently, hopefully somewhere that has a few of slightly increasing height and isn't in the middle of nowhere so if you do hurt yourself, somebody can help you (even better, bring a friend). Do the smallest one as many times as you have to until your 100% confident on it. Then move up the the next one and repeat the process. Etc. Dialing in your skills this way before you take them to the trails will keep you from more injuries than strapping on the stormtrooper gear and just hitting stuff while hoping for the best. Trust me - been there.


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## JXG (Oct 9, 2013)

> stormtrooper gear and just hitting stuff while hoping for the best

Hoping for the best? That's exactly what I am not doing  

What I am doing is hundreds of repetitions while wearing levels of gear appropriate to the hazard * probability = risk of the activity. 

I'm also being careful to avoid the illusion that risk goes down as experience goes up. That's a fallacy common in all risk sports. It is certainly everywhere in mountain biking


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Like I said, I definitely appreciate armor. Paid for me countless times when I used to DH pretty regularly, and also on the more heavily technical stuff. I know some riders who gear up pretty well for a lot their trail riding too, even though they're really skilled. If it works for you, go with it. 

Risk on the same level of terrain/speed gets lower as you get better at it, as your probability will go more in your favor as your skills get better. Of course, when you start going faster, and riding tougher stuff (upping the hazard level), your gonna keep the risk. Vicious cycle. 

Have fun.


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## JXG (Oct 9, 2013)

> "riding tougher stuff (upping the hazard level), your gonna keep the risk"

Well put. I'm definitely not going to wear armor on easier rides.

Also "contact hours" plays into probability. As the hours go up, you accumulate random events where little things go wrong and can escalate.

Thanks


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## Bruce in SoCal (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks for the comprehensive report and analysis.

I wear soft shin & knee pads and sometimes soft elbow pads. My dilemma with armor is that the trails I ride have only a few relatively short technical sections; say around 5% of the ride. I'd like more armor for those, but it will be too hot for the rest of the red, especially the climbs. I'd love a full face helmet., but only for a small part of the ride. Any ideas.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

All i will say is at least if a nuclear bomb hits you will have plenty of cockroaches to keep you company...


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## JXG (Oct 9, 2013)

> but only for a small part of the ride. Any ideas.

Bruce, you are most welcome. One option is carrying heavier gear in a pack and putting it on. 

If I was in this situation I would dress for trail riding (similar to what you describe, no armor) and would ride the technical stuff conservatively. Save the more aggressive riding for when armor is convenient to wear.

> if a nuclear bomb hits you

Low probability event because it would almost certainly be an air burst


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

jg1990 said:


> > but only for a small part of the ride. Any ideas.
> 
> Bruce, you are most welcome. Only option I can see is carrying heavier gear in a pack and putting it on.
> 
> ...


 youd survive in all that gear lol.

On a serious note, great to see you passionate about your gear and safety, and good write up.

What ever floats peoples boats is cool by me.

Its pretty hot here, unless your doing some serious down hill, i dont wear anything, i only started wearing a helmet last year after a lifetime of riding, skating, bmx, and DJ, and i hate it, but as im getting older ive realised a helmet is probably the smart thing to wear on your head, might save my ass one day.

Id do away with your shin pads, a few deep cuts from your pins wont hurt you, not sure on the wrist guards either, unless your rockin DH, dont think you ned armour either, but hey thats just me, might save your ass one day and you'll have the last laugh.

cheers mate n keep rippin it up.


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## JXG (Oct 9, 2013)

Edits: I added a beginning with photo to set the context and caution the reader that I am sharing a personal perspective not giving advice. Also some minor edits and updates. 

Thanks for all the comments!


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Im not sure that picture describes aggressive riding. If gear makes you happy, then good for you. A few guys i ride with rock pads, but I like to feel free. It makes it exciting. 

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jg1990 said:


> All-Mountain is "More than XC, less than DH/FR". To me that means this kind of riding:
> 
> View attachment 869085


Everybody has to decide what gear to wear. So if that setup works for you and makes you happy give 'er bullets. :thumbsup:

I will say this there are more ways to prevent injury than to wear tons of armor:

- figure out what sorts of crashes you are having and work on preventing them
- could mean riding slower
- could mean working on specific skills
- adjusting your suspension so the bike performs better in those specific situations
- eating more regularly so your brain is well fuelled in stressful situations
- etc...

For example in the pic you posted you'd be safer coming off that ledge with a bit more speed [not warp 9.9!] and the front wheel up so your aren't likely to go OTB. Rolling off puts all that weight on the front wheel compressing the suspension and tire making the front end really steep.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

vikb said:


> For example in the pic you posted you'd be safer coming off that ledge with a bit more speed [not warp 9.9!] and the front wheel up so your aren't likely to go OTB. Rolling off puts all that weight on the front wheel compressing the suspension and tire making the front end really steep.


This is exactly what I'm thinking too.

For such a small step (definitely well within the 'XC' range of technicality), it looks like you are coming down really heavily on your front end; your tire looks pretty much flattened and your fork fully compressed. This tells me that almost all your momentum is straight into the ground at this point (you can also see how you are looking straight down, instead of out in front of you like you should be). This is a big part of why your crashing on stuff like what's shown in the picture. The armor will mitigate some scuffs and scrapes, but the real solution is to work on your skills.

As suggested before, you would do well find a safe spot where you can practice a step that's maybe 6" or so smaller than the one in the picture (so, maybe 8 or 10" high - just a little bigger than your average curb). Ride off it at a fast walking pace as many times as it takes until you are able to land either both wheels simultaneously or back wheel first every single time. Do this, even if it takes you 1000 tries.

Then, find a step that's 4" higher than the first one. and go through the whole thing again. Think light and smooth while you're doing it; you should be barely compressing your suspension, and hardly feeling the landing once you've got it dialed in. FWIW, my 9 y/o kid does drops to flat on his 18" BMX bike that are substantially larger than the one in your pic, and I swear he could land on a carton of eggs and not break any. That's the feeling you're shooting for, as opposed to plowing all your weight straight into the earth through your front end.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

That step down looks perfect for a wheelie drop.


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## Bruce in SoCal (Apr 21, 2013)

Until 5 minutes ago, I was someone who would proudly proclaim that he did not do jumps or drops, but would rather gently roll them. Seeing the photo and comments has led me to adopt a new perspective. Thanks! And, I will practice landing both wheels from a short drop.


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## JXG (Oct 9, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions! I will definitely work on these techniques. While wearing the armor


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## Iamrockandroll13 (Feb 10, 2013)

With all that armor, I want to see at least a 360 off that drop, back flip maybe? 

If it gets you riding and gives you the confidence to attempt more difficult features and develop your skills it's a good thing. You will slowly get more comfortable with that type of terrain and maybe lose some of the armor for that type of riding. The others are definitely right about technique, and some times faster is actually easier and smoother. I used to take step downs like that the way you are in the picture, but once I learned to manual off stuff like that I realized how much softer and easier the landing was and how much more momentum I could carry into what ever is next.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

How old is the OP? 

You would think at least 50 if he is so frail.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Not for nothing, but I'm creeping up pretty close to 50 myself. I've been riding since the early 90's, and back when I was in my 20's learning to ride stuff along the lines of the drop pictured, I took full advantage of body armor. Paid off a million times. If I was trying now to learn to ride that same stuff, I'd be wrapped up pretty well. And FWIW, that's coming from somebody with a hundreds of DH days,in New England. Armor is a great thing. But I gotta say, for me at this point, the less gear I gotta deal with the better. And I also truthfully think I ride better wiithout gear; I just feel 'looser'. Course I mostly ride pretty well within my boundaries these days, so that's a consideration too.

It's easy now for more more experienced (or, not in my case, naturally gifted) riders to just say 'ride off it and lift your front wheel and put it down like a cat', but it sure didn't come naturally to me. Once it clicks though, it's just a great addition to your skill set, not to mention fun as hell. For any drop, the most important thing is how you part ways with terra firma. You want to be able to have your bike stay level until the back wheel clears the ledge. Sometimes it's easier to learn, and you probably get a better bike-feel, if you start out by not trying to launch the bike completely clear of the ledge, but concentrate on keeping the bike horizontal and just letting the rear wheel trace the contour of whatever you're practicing on. Get confident with that feeling and go from there. 

Two ends of the spectrum regarding approaches are to use momentum that you've already gathered and just fly off the drop, or to creep up and 'wheelie drop', using a quick crank of the pedals (you're gonna want a high enough gear to give you something to push against). There are probably a million 'how to's that explain better than I can, but one little thing that always worked for me on drops was the concept of pushing the bike out in front of me more so than pulling up on it. I think an even more apt description of the feeling might be 'swinging' the bike forward; the overall move is a little reminiscent of pumping your regular old park swing. And similarly, it won't work unless your legs are involved. Don't be afraid to work the knees and hips.

Pretty much anybody that's ridden a bike for a little while can learn to do wheel height drops smoothly with a few afternoons of practice if they apply themselves. It's a huge addition to the skill set no matter what type of riding you do, and as I said before, fun as hell. Which is the whole purpose.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> It's easy now for more more experienced (or, not in my case, naturally gifted) riders to just say 'ride off it and lift your front wheel and put it down like a cat', but it sure didn't come naturally to me.


Coaching is a good way to improve your skills with minimal risk and high reward. I've been riding bikes for well over 30yrs and snowboarding for 20yrs. I hire a coach every once in a while when I am feeling it. Price is minimal compared to what those sports cost.

I've been learning to surf the last 4yrs and never hesitate to grab a lesson when a good opportunity presents itself.

You don't have to figure it all out on your own.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

vikb said:


> Coaching is a good way to improve your skills with minimal risk and high reward. I've been riding bikes for well over 30yrs and snowboarding for 20yrs. I hire a coach every once in a while when I am feeling it. Price is minimal compared to what those sports cost.
> 
> I've been learning to surf the last 4yrs and never hesitate to grab a lesson when a good opportunity presents itself.
> 
> You don't have to figure it all out on your own.


Agreed. I've been working on learning how to ride a 20" bike in a skatepark without killing myself for the last few years so I can ride with my son, and a little time spent working with someone who knows what they're doing is much more effective than a bunch of hours trying to BS my way through it on my own. (Luckily for me, there are a surprising amount of talented and patient BMX kids who are willing to help an old man out.)


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

Like others have said, do whatever makes you happy. But that is more armor that I'd wear for a day riding lifts at the resort. But I guess if I were to have to nose-dive off it like that, I'd probably want to gear up, too (at least wear a FF helmet) -- that looks scary! 

Take a couple pedal strokes, get the front end up and drop that ledge. It'll be a piece of cake! Even if you fall dropping it properly, it is a more manageable crash than augering face-first into solid rock!

And it isn't really true that you fall more or as much as you gain experience. I only fall a couple times a year. You can gear up if you like, but I expect you'll find that after you gain some experience, you won't feel a need to wear the stormtrooper suit anymore. 

But like I said, to each his own ...

Good luck!


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## angello_rm (Feb 18, 2014)

I believe that you did an excellent review, your intentions were not meant to give advice but it does help to get a better perpective, based in experience on what was tested.

I have been riding since I was a child, but I left this wonderful sport for a couple of years and now I'm back a bit reloaded. I tried to ride around 3-4 times per week and that includes soft and very technical areas.

If I've fallen? Yes, a couple of times. But not everything is related to experience or techniques

I ride with a couple of guys and even the most experienced have fallen. Is is true that the experience makes you a better rider, but that doesn't means that that you won't fall or even get a fracture. From my perspective it way you ride and sometimes is simply luck.

I do ride fast in ocassions specially when doing DH, but that depends in the type of surface, even more if you don't know the area very well.

I bought the Fox Titan back at the beginning of January but I have use it just once becasue it was too hot. Here in my country [Panama], our temperature goes around 30-37 degrees celsius + adding the suit, it is definitively something to take in consideration.

My Idea: I always wear a Camelbak and that helps a little bit to protect you, so I removed the back plate and belt of the suit for a better ventilation. I could try adding the XCEL Mes's Premium long sleeve that I bought today in Amazon []Amazon.com: Xcel Men's Premium 6-Ounce Long Sleeve Top: Sports & Outdoors to wear the sport Titan Jacket at my own configuration over it.

About legs: I bought the Knee/Shin Guards "IXS Cleavers". From what I could tell from February I have fallen almost 3 times, the 3rd was on Sunday. 
I crashed with a tree that had fallen probably at mid-night due to some rains and that was by doing DH.

Luckily I just got minor injures in my knee but it could be worst.

It does depends if you feel confortable by wearing protection, but I do care more about my life and health as a young person. Unfortunately everyone starts to wear protections after gathering some wounds or fractures.


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## Bruce in SoCal (Apr 21, 2013)

I wanted to mention that my Camelbak saved my life and ability to walk when I went over the side of the mountain. I went between 100 and 150 feet, mostly on my back. However, my Camelbak, which took a beating, protected my back better than any armor could ever do.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Bruce in SoCal said:


> I wanted to mention that my Camelbak saved my life and ability to walk when I went over the side of the mountain. I went between 100 and 150 feet, mostly on my back. However, my Camelbak, which took a beating, protected my back better than any armor could ever do.


+1 - my GF was unhappy with how badly she thrashed a brand new hydration pack in Sedona over the holidays. I pointed out that it was better to destroy a pack than your back.


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## JXG (Oct 9, 2013)

Slaphead, Ty: Thanks for the pointers. I am working on basics with trackstands and wheelies daily to improve balance.

angello: Glad you found the info helpful and thanks for letting me know. The Xcel shirt is really nice.


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## nexttozen (Jul 15, 2014)

bump for great thread.

i'm older now and looking at a ff helmet and neck brace for some of the downs in my hood (aliso woods). don't care what people think of me wearing that stuff, 5 oaks, rockit, car wreck are pretty gnarly trails. noticed some of the local ripper kids almost all wear ff and leatt braces and skimp on other stuff like elbow and shin pads. makes sense in many ways. protect the most important stuff first.

noticed some pros wear a standard xc helmet on pedal up (with leatt brace) and don the ff on the way down. seems like a good compromise. 

either way, skills trump all. #1 thing is to work on your skills to prevent injury. after taking a skills clinic realized 90%+ of riders out there are winging it with bad skills. myself included before the clinic.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

I've had a lot of success avoiding the sorts of accidents that I can learn to prevent, but because of the sort of riding that attracts me to mountain bike stuff (fast, busy sections that are either loose or choppy) when I do wreck they're a lot of the sort of hits some smarter gear choices would help reduce injury on (mostly I wind up tagging my knees on stuff)

Still, this helps me put into more relevant perspective how much a big crash would set me back, so I'm looking into this stuff for sure.


As for the image of that drop - that particular one with proper prep is a fairly straightforward rolling manual into neutral type drop, but put something like that after a couple of cambered rollers coming out of a short drop chute or techy spot that's simpler to monster truck at jogging pace and then landings like those are completely plausible; as the OP acquires a bigger skillset having the bike/rider at that attitude is still totally within the realm of possibility, and I can understand his desire to minimize the pain involved in that learning process.


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## nexttozen (Jul 15, 2014)

tehllama said:


> I've had a lot of success avoiding the sorts of accidents that I can learn to prevent, but because of the sort of riding that attracts me to mountain bike stuff (fast, busy sections that are either loose or choppy) when I do wreck they're a lot of the sort of hits some smarter gear choices would help reduce injury on (mostly I wind up tagging my knees on stuff)
> 
> Still, this helps me put into more relevant perspective how much a big crash would set me back, so I'm looking into this stuff for sure.
> 
> As for the image of that drop - that particular one with proper prep is a fairly straightforward rolling manual into neutral type drop, but put something like that after a couple of cambered rollers coming out of a short drop chute or techy spot that's simpler to monster truck at jogging pace and then landings like those are completely plausible; as the OP acquires a bigger skillset having the bike/rider at that attitude is still totally within the realm of possibility, and I can understand his desire to minimize the pain involved in that learning process.


+1 and well said. op said he was a physician. I can totally understand him not wanting to get injured if possible.

my current basic setup is shin guards, helmet, gloves and wrist guards. wrists seem to be a problem area for many people. I don knee and elbow as needed. some areas where i ride, i'd feel comfortable with ff and neck brace. the ground is really hard and its always a balance between being comfortable and having enough protection.

skills defly trump all though. many crashes occur when one is tired after a long day at work or riding in relatively easy stuff ironically.

agree about the manual to neutral drop. skills skills...


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## JXG (Oct 9, 2013)

All, thanks for the feedback.

Skills are everything. I took the BetterRide.net skills camp recently and it was a complete game changer. As nexttozen says, 90% probably more have no idea how to actually ride an MTB. Certainly I was doing more things wrong than right. 

I am continuing to do the drills every week and recommend this camp highly. It is not cheap but my MTB career is now divided into "before" and "after" BetterRide.

When Gene saw me roll a drop let's just say it was a "teachable moment." Now I know how to do both coaster wheelies (manuals) and roll steps properly without having my butt on the tire. I will be returning to that spot and doing it right as a manual to level flight and landing on both wheels equally. Will post updated photo.

Since the OP I have gotten back into dirt biking after a break of a couple decades. It is impressive how well-equipped most riders are these days: "dress to crash." So I am wearing all this gear including the Troy wrist guards and just upgraded to Bohn Adventure Armored Shorts for more pelvis and tailbone protection. Not sure I would want to wear these on an MTB but for the moto they are quite reasonable.

I highly recommend the Leatt dual axis. I have worn them on every MTB and moto ride over the summer, from alpine to desert, and they are super protective and comfortable.


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