# frozen sholder



## bikemore9 (Feb 15, 2011)

Anyone ever have this???? What did they do for you and what about time, recovery? this is the worst thing i've ever experienced in my entire life!:madman::madman:


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## BJL-1 (Apr 7, 2011)

If its truly a "frozen shoulder" and not some other type of injury the condition usually goes through 3 phases: a painful phase, a stiff phase, and finally a "thawing" phase. There are no set time frames for when the condition passes from one phase to another but statistically, a true frozen shoulder will almost always resolve itself on its own but it may take as long as 12-18 months. Doctors typically do a few different things for it. Most often, PT is recommended which will help to improve your motion, but dont expect it to be fully resolved by the time you are done a 6 week course of treatment--you'll have to maintain a home program. Otherwise, an othopaedist may do cortisone injections and, most aggressively, they can do a manipulation under anesthesia of the shoulder or an arthroscopic release (followed by more PT). But again, this depends on the severity and sometimes the response to PT, home exercise, etc. 

If i were you (if you haven't already). I'd get my shoulder evaluated by an orthopaedic first to determine if it really is a frozen shoulder and not something else--especially if your condition was caused by a specific injury. Good luck!


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## bikemore9 (Feb 15, 2011)

Thanks for your info. I went to the dr. yesterday and it is a frozen shoulder. He shot it (I can't tell any difference yet) for pain and wants me to go to PT 3x/wk for 8 weeks (the summer/ride time). If that doesn't do it surgery but he thinks my ROM will improve with PT. I don't know....i'm just wondering how long....


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## BJL-1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Good you had a shot already. It can take a day or 2 to take full effect. In some cases, its a miracle, others, not so much. If the shot doesnt do a lot for pain go slow and steady with PT. Harder isnt better--it'll just be a miserable experience, not allow the inflammation to go down and motion wont improve. You and your PT can be more aggressive if pain is better controlled.

Hard to say how long. If the shot works, and you have a good PT, are compliant with your home program, you may be pretty good in 8 weeks. Just remember, it will get better and go away.:thumbsup:


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## bikemore9 (Feb 15, 2011)

well....found out my lack of insurance will only give me a total of 7 p.t. appointments so i'm going to space them out and do stretching exercises to try to gain r.o.m. which is pretty much null right now. I go for my first real appointment in a few hours, after the eval. I thought i was dying, iced no drugs the dr. said to take ibuprophin and i laughed they don't have a clue. I really don't think the shot helped, shouldn't i be able to tell? that's the update.Looks like i'll be inflicting much pain myself. any other tips?


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## BJL-1 (Apr 7, 2011)

spacing out the appts is a good idea...make the most out of them.  Restoring ROM is a slow process. Typically harder isnt better--it just results in more inflammation, pain, and unwillingness to do exercises. If its been several days since the shot, you are likely right and it didnt work. Discuss this with the ortho at your next visit. They could try another directed at a different part of the shoulder. Hang in there!


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## Julie (Jul 26, 2005)

How did it get frozen in the first place ? That might help determine the time course of the recovery. That isn't something that just happens overnight on an otherwise normal shoulder.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

My wife / stoker is dealing with this currently.

The posts from BJL-1 are accurate, at least in regards to my wifes shoulder.

Hers was caused by we believe a hearty tug from our daughters black lab, with a secondary collision with the wall from being pulled.

Believing it was a bruise and strained, she held off for months until it finally had minimal range and a lot of pain.

Images showed a very small tear, and slight bursitis.

For this she received the shot. Made no difference.

Couple weeks later, she visited the first doctors partner who specializes in shoulders. Highly rated locally and get good feedback verbally from friends.

Same deal as #1 doc, shot but also this time PT, several times per week. After weeks of therapy, the PT decided to improve range by manipulating and pulling on the joint. Things got worse after that. She completed PT in a lot of pain. She was released from PT with no improvement.

Followup visit to doc was a sit down discussion with his PA, all the stuff mentioned about gaining range posted here is almost a quote of that discussion. On this same day, we also met with the doctor again. He stated the same information, became insistent on needing another shot. They really wanted to manipulate her arm while unconscious. Also stated that if while unconscious and they did not get enough range they would then decide to cut it open, slice the tendons I believe, and then more intense PT for months.

Initially she opted out of the shot, we were almost out of the office and she said she wanted it for the pain. I reminded her that it did not work previously.

So back into the exam room and she gets another shot from the doctor. Finally, he came clean and explained that even with surgery, it may not solve the problem, but admitted that for most people it will heal on it's own in 12 to 18 months. We discussed this with friends that had similar issues. They also had minimal results from PT or the shot, ultimately, it was daily stretching and working the joint, sometimes with help from another person until finally it was healed but never as original.

What has worked best is just daily working of the joint. Very slow and painful at times process. Painful while stretching, feels good until the next day or in the evening when you work to gain a bit more.

Unfortunately, I suffered a muscle tear in my upper arm. I have been trying to not push it so it can heal. After a few weeks I started to feel my shoulder getting tighter and sore. So while helping the wife, I learned I'm not going to baby the shoulder joint as she did. That was her ultimate demise.

FWIW, we ride tandems. She has continued to ride. Initially we had mixed results and technical riding was hard on her shoulder after a ride. We let things calm down a bit with a couple of weeks of road riding or smooth dirt roads. Now with her committed to a routine to get better we ride off-road again. One thing that has helped for riding is an EVS Soulder Support. She wanted nothing to do with it initially. Fairly low cost. After explaining she did need help supporting the shoulder she still was not open minded about the brace. Ultimately it came down to no off-road riding until she healed. She then decided the brace may not be that bad. She now wears it on all off-road rides. Complains before getting on the bike, too tight, too loose, wrong position...once under way, she doesn't seem to even notice it.

http://www.evs-sports.com/product/shoulder-support/

This has eliminated that feeling of when she thought her shoulder was going to "pop" apart. Not a perfect aide, but decent. They run very small so get at least one size or even two sizes larger if you go this route.

We still ride, she works the shoulder daily. Getting better, but very slowly.

And yes it hurts her, many tears have been dropped from this injury.

Not sure if it's true or matters, we also were informed that woman get this condition more often then men. Also, when women do get a frozen shoulder, sometimes it has nothing to do with an injury inducing it. Again, this was another topic about this, learned from another woman / rider that had been through the frozen shoulder. Hers was injury related, but the info was something her research found.

PK


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## bikemore9 (Feb 15, 2011)

The original injury happened back in jan. snowboarding i took a massive fall, broke some ribs and hurt the shoulder. After the ribs healed i still had shoulder pain. I had some r.o.m. but couldn't take shirts off or put on jackets etc. but i could lift my arm straight out and up. Months after (end of april) i crushed my hand at work. That is still healing anyway's it blew up like a rubber glove when this happened i obviously stopped using the arm including that shoulder then all of a sudden, within a week or two my entire shoulder moved or for better words didn't, intense pain etc. the hand was workmans comp but they said the two were not related therefore the lack of treatment (i'm workin' on that). My P.T has given me a ton of stretching and exercises to do hourly, it hurts like nothing other but i'm doing it. He manipulates it etc. but yesterday was only the second time i saw him but did have a little more r.o.m. (very little, but better). The doctor wanted to try pt first, he wasn't (nor the pt) high on the manipulation trail actually no one has been. 
I've just started the pt so i'll update in a few weeks. I don't go back to the dr. for awhile i'm hoping for some results before then. I'm just finding it difficult because of my hand healing too, i guess it's not a good summer. I can reach the handlebars but obviously have only rode gingerly on the road (on my mountain bike) i'm longing to be in the woods, take advantage!!!I'd give anything to go back and have the pain i had in april (I thought that was bad, it was nothing compared to this ) before the hand! at least i could ride and race. :madman:


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## BJL-1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Julie said:


> How did it get frozen in the first place ? That might help determine the time course of the recovery. That isn't something that just happens overnight on an otherwise normal shoulder.


It actually can happen to an otherwise normal shoulder. The reasons for this are not known. Statistically, as PMK correctly stated, there is a greater incidence of frozen shoulder in women than in men, usually middle-age-ish, and diabetics are far more likely to develop it without an injury. But, it can also develop as a result of an injury as is the case with bikemore.


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## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

It's all about getting injured somehow and not using the shoulder while it "heals" but also not doing any ROM. Use it or lose it cannot be taken too seriously when it comes to keeping your range of motion in your shoulders while coming back from some other injury. 

Whenever I see somebody in my gym babying some shoulder injury but not doing any ROM exercises (like at the very least walking your hand up a wall) I'll mention ROM is important to work on and it's surprising how many don't know that even though they've been to a doc.

And yes, I've been through this but found a competent PT guy (on my own, no insurance) and he worked on me for quite awhile to "unfreeze" me.


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## bikemore9 (Feb 15, 2011)

My P.T. is really good and an accomplished roadie, he's really knowledgeable and is working hard to losen it up. He say's in the cases he's seen it usually is from a prior injury but he has seen it when it's not. I didn't even realize I wasn't using the shoulder because i was so concentrated on my hand.Thanks for all the input.


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## bikemore9 (Feb 15, 2011)

Well this is a slow process for sure. My P.T. said it is as frustrating to have as to treat, ha. Progress is coming though. I started with 20 degree rom and i am now at 70 that's after he's stretched and ripped it apart. It's about 60 ish when i do it every morning. I just started strengthening exercises also, my muscles have atrophied something terriable, so i am doing stretching stuff every other hourish and strengthening 1-2x a day. I can ride and it helps stretch it out but haven't been in the woods yet he doesn't think it's a good idea yet (with my hand too). So it is three steps forward two back but i will not give up. wondering whats next. no pain if i'm not using it then i go stretch and it hurts like mad!


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## mungry (May 18, 2011)

I had a pretty good fall over my handle bars about 3 months ago, landing on my elbow/shoulder and the result was what the doctor called a "shoulder sprain." My rom hasnt been the same since. It's deffinitely getting better but its a slow process with lots of PT and ice. I still have trouble getting into a shirt on bad days.

Funny thing is that after riding it feels great! I guess all those micro movements (what I call it for lack of a better term) helps loosen it up. 

I try to PT a couple of times a day and will ice after work.


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## bikemore9 (Feb 15, 2011)

Is this ever going to end?


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## kzeiszler (Jul 2, 2011)

massage and passive range of motion is about all you can do for it. set up some appointments with a good massage therapist or PT


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