# What are you guys running? Tubes vs. Tubeless



## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm looking into getting some new wheels over this next coming season to use strictly for DH/really light FR and I'm wondering what set up's most of you are running. 2011 was my first season, and to explain how much of a newb I am. I just threw a 2.5 nevegal single ply on front, and 2.35 out back, and ran DH tubes. I didn't have any problem with pinch flats, but my "light freeride/AM" bike weighs more than most everyone's DH bike I rode around on at 42-43 pounds. It's an 08 Reign X. I think the wheels are WTB laser disc FR, they're strong but I feel like all the extra weight on my bike is coming from rotational mass. 

Everything on my bike has slowly been upgraded, All that's left for me to do is new brakes and a new wheel/tire set-up, so I'd love to know what most of you guys are running. 

Thanks,
Sean


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Tubeless 5 years now won't be running a tube anytime soon.

I had 2 tubes in my pack for the last year and a half both are on buddies bikes who flatted there tubes on rides I still have yet to flat on a ride. When i do its because I destroyed a tire and I keep a granola bar wrapper and tube so i can wrap the tube where the gash is on the tire when i ride out then pass that tire off to someone with tubes and slap another on.
I nave rolled a few tires and the tips for ghetto tubeless have pretty well eliminated this along with burping, I still burp once in a while but usually because I'm running too low pressure on a free ride casing and weigh 235lb..

From what I have run the only rim I'd avoid the most is a syncros original with the bead notched I had more issues with that.

Good rims non ust that work brilliant
Mavic 721, 729
Dt Swiss fr 600, 540, 550, 500 older 5.1 and 6.1
New syncros and older ds28
Industry nine rims

Tires to avoid , Kendas (had more issues with these even blew the sidewalls out on dh casings. 

Aside of that tires that have had success.
Schwalbe, Maxxis, Michelin, continental

Don't like ust tires the sidewalls deform because of butyl rubber when they blow and stay deformed with a sidewall hernia a, run non ust tires they work amazing.

I currently am running deemax, crossmax sx both ust and work amazing with non ust tires as well as have some dt wheels ghetto on the race bike and no issues.

In the end some like it others do I love tubeless:thumbsup:


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## string (Jan 13, 2004)

Good info. I am going through same thought process. I have beem run Minion DHF dual ply with tubes but just built a new bike with tubeless ready rims (Crankbrother Sage....got a great deal).

The new wheels have me thinking about tubeless for DH. Do you run tape, sealant, or neither with the non UST tires on tubeless ready rims?

I am a little wary of sealant...back when Stans came out I tried it on a XC bike (around 2001 ish) and blew a tire off the rim as I was seating the tire bead. Happened just as I bent down to take the pump off. Scared the He!! out of me and I have not tried tubeless since.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

string said:


> Good info. I am going through same thought process. I have beem run Minion DHF dual ply with tubes but just built a new bike with tubeless ready rims (Crankbrother Sage....got a great deal).
> 
> The new wheels have me thinking about tubeless for DH. Do you run tape, sealant, or neither with the non UST tires on tubeless ready rims?
> 
> I am a little wary of sealant...back when Stans came out I tried it on a XC bike (around 2001 ish) and blew a tire off the rim as I was seating the tire bead. Happened just as I bent down to take the pump off. Scared the He!! out of me and I have not tried tubeless since.


With non ust rims I run a strip of gorilla tape over the inside center and then cut a 20 tube gheeto and works great you use stand to glue the tire to the strip for better hold when running real low PS I.
Always use stans there's sticks and rocks that will destroy a tire regardless of tubes or not and stand will fix it up quickly. I've had a gash so bad stand fought hard to fill it I ended up at 8 psi and a skunk strip up my back of latex lol. Stopped filled the tire and rode on.

As far as bike tir blowing I had a Ken a 2.7 dh on a SC bull it downstairs years ago sitting at 45 PS I as it was recommended that pressure to seat overnight. About 3am I thought someone fired a shotgun in my house scared the $h!t outa me. Had stand on the ceiling walls etc and bike was laying in middle of room.

So don't ever fill to 45 PS I and let sit.


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## string (Jan 13, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> With non ust rims I run a strip of gorilla tape over the inside center and then cut a 20 tube gheeto and works great you use stand to glue the tire to the strip for better hold when running real low PS I.
> Always use stans there's sticks and rocks that will destroy a tire regardless of tubes or not and stand will fix it up quickly. I've had a gash so bad stand fought hard to fill it I ended up at 8 psi and a skunk strip up my back of latex lol. Stopped filled the tire and rode on.
> 
> As far as bike tir blowing I had a Ken a 2.7 dh on a SC bull it downstairs years ago sitting at 45 PS I as it was recommended that pressure to seat overnight. About 3am I thought someone fired a shotgun in my house scared the $h!t outa me. Had stand on the ceiling walls etc and bike was laying in middle of room.
> ...


It is ironic that I still think my scariest riding moment happened in my living room blowing the tire of the rim in my face (back in the days pre wife and kids when I could put the bike and stand in my living room).

How hard is it to reinflate. Most of my DH requires shipping the bike in a Trico case with tires deflated and then reassembling. I have a compressor and floor pump at home but might not have on the road.


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## illnotsick (Mar 28, 2011)

Tubeless rear, tube front only because the rim is too f'd up to hold air. Rear is set up ghetto (outlaw, 2.5 DH highroller) following bullcrews steps, 20" ghetto and stans. Hasn't burped in 3 months riding lots of rocks and only lost 5 psi sitting for 3 weeks while I was gone for christmas break. Once I replace the front rim I'll be changing it as well.


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## stuffshredman (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm running:
Mavic 823's
King ISO hubs
Schwalbe UST tires

I was hesitant to switch to tubeless... but haven't had a flat in two years. The Mavic 823's are true UST, so no need for kits, goop, etc. Plus, they are strong as heck. Schwalbe tires are $$ but have been great tires (I'm running Fat Alberts)


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## ak pura vida (Dec 15, 2008)

bullcrew had a significant influence on my decision to go tubeless. thanks for the previous posts btw. i went with dt fr600 rims, gorrilla tape down the middle, kevlar minions, and stan's. ran it whistler for four hard days and then at my local resort after that. i destroyed a tire but that was more my fault than the setup. haven't ridden the bike in over three months (ak tends to have lots of snow during the winter... ) and both tires still have enough air to peddle around the garage. that's still with the ruined rear tire. pretty impressed. i won't be going back.

pv


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## Jibro (Mar 21, 2010)

Running tubeless on 823s with a homebrew sealant mix, on all kinds of different tires, including Kenda. No issues here :thumbsup:


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

ak pura vida said:


> bullcrew had a significant influence on my decision to go tubeless. thanks for the previous posts btw. i went with dt fr600 rims, gorrilla tape down the middle, kevlar minions, and stan's. ran it whistler for four hard days and then at my local resort after that. i destroyed a tire but that was more my fault than the setup. haven't ridden the bike in over three months (ak tends to have lots of snow during the winter... ) and both tires still have enough air to peddle around the garage. that's still with the ruined rear tire. pretty impressed. i won't be going back.
> 
> pv


Thanks.

Yeah I raced a 721 with 2 1"+ cracks and 14-15 dents I've pulled with a crescent wrench and did my race run with the bead folded over and cracked. After the run aired down to 5psi pulled the tire to the side used a crescent wrench to pull it back never lost tne seal on the ghetto strip. Aired it up and its still going strong.:thumbsup:

And yes schwalbes have been by the best tires I've used for tubeless and grip in any condition.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

8 years (since 2004) been running 823's and Hadleys tubeless

Mavic 823's (true tubeless) are awesome

currently running Schlabe Big Betty's...but use to run Miichelins...never used any rim strips 

Sidenote and very important.... you have to sealant....My favorite was at Whistler at top of mountain and a stick the size of a pencil put a whole in my tire....took pencil size stick out and then resealed with C02....rode the tire 3 more months-no problems


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## dngr (Jul 26, 2009)

Must be 2 getting on for 3 years now that I've been using tubeless and haven't looked back yet. 

Running the same setup as when I started (might be time to change tires I think ha). Mavic 729 front and rear with dual ply 2.5 Nevegal in the rear and single ply 2.5 Nevegal on the front. The single ply seems to gradually lose air over time whereas the dual ply is still as hard as when I left it (went and worked on the Great Lakes for 6 months, bike stayed in Victoria, BC). 

I'm using Stans sealant with his rim strips. I found I had to really build up the rim with tape before putting on the rim strip for the dual ply Nevegal and EX729 but not so with the single ply and 729.

I've found that the initial inflation requires a compressor of automotive grade while a hand pump will suffice for anything else.


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## Duece (Apr 18, 2010)

So if I have a tubeless ready rim, can I use a Highroller 2 tire (non-ust) with stans without troubles? Currently I run 28 psi with tubes, will I need to increase pressure with tubeless?


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## mzorich (Mar 13, 2011)

tubeless all the way for dh. for many reasons. first pinch flats suck nuts. its a lot harder to pinch a tire with no tube in it. 2 it will most likely drop your bike 1 1/2 to 2 lbs no prob depending on what tires and tubes your running right now. with that weight drop you accelerate fast and slow down faster when on the breaks. why would you not want that. you also have less rotational mass when in the air i.e. your more stable cuz you don't have heavy wheels pulling you whatever way they are spinning towards. and finally on long travel bikes so any dh bike when you have a lighter rim its less un sprung weight so your suspension will not have to work as hard when going over rocky sections.

i run american classic AM wheels on my dj/4x bike. they come pre taped and ready to go. you just add 2oz of stans goo and tires of your choice and your good to go. in my eyes tubes are so dated and worthless. tubeless all the way man. no questions asked


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## phyco ref (Jun 12, 2010)

Ran tubeless for the past season with no flats. I have used WTB Speed Disk Pro DH set up ghetto tubeless (BMX tube with Stans) with HR 2ply and a Minion 1ply, and now have 823's and have run the same tires as well as Schwable Muddy Marys (all non UST with stans). I typically ran about 28-30 in the rear and 26-28 in the front and had zero issues all season!


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## ustemuf (Oct 12, 2009)

tubeless is the way to go IMO. i used to run tubes. 

i run both 823/hadleys and deemax wheelsets. i use two scoops of stan sealant. its so easy.

i use highroller dual ply's and specialized hillbilly's and i ride them super hard at ~29-30psi and never have any problems. i cleared about 75 feet out and 25 down on a stepdown (overclear) the other day and nearly landed my front tire to flat on the huck and had no burps.. so if can take that, i'm pretty sure it can take everything else i throw at it.


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## BigHit-Maniac (Apr 13, 2004)

Tubeless. All the way. 

:thumbsup:


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## The Haunted (Jul 10, 2009)

Running Mavic 729's with a Der Kaiser in front and DHF/highroller2 in the rear using a Stan strip and the rim center built up with tape. Never burped and running great! Also running Stan flows with tape on the 29er. **** tubes.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Maxxis Minions (with heavy duty tubes) 
Have used them for 2 years. No flats, Good grip. No complaints


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## JoshW (Jan 7, 2012)

yea, have to agree. love the minions too. i have found them to be super tough.


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks guys this gives me a lot to think about and look into. From the looks of it I'm definitely going tubeless, just need to find a set-up I can afford. On the bright side, I just replaced the 55r with an RC3 Ti so I saved about 1.5-2 pounds there, handle bars and seat prob saved me another half pound. It's nit picking but I think going tubeless, and changing out the cranks and a few other parts I can get it down to where I want it.


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

Tubeless with UST rims, ex823, ex819 and Crossmax SX, used with non UST Maxxis, Schwalbe and so on tires+ stans and no problems at all


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## jeng (Aug 12, 2005)

I am also a tubeless fan but I know a lot of DH pro's who won't roll tubeless because the tire can puncture easier. Trail bike they do it but not for DH. Like I said I ditched the tubes in my bikes years ago I was just surprised to find that so many DH'ers don't do the tubeless thing.


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## PACS (Jun 7, 2010)

Was running 2.5 DH nevegals with DH tubes until recently. Like yours, my AM/FR bikes was heavy at 40 lbs. Switched to 2.3 WTB Bronsons (TCS) with standard tubes a couple of weeks ago and the bikes is now a lean 33.5 lbs.Pedals great uphill, pops like crazy off jumps but I have lost some confidence on the DH. 

Was considering tubeless but have held off because I'm lazy. I'm also running WTB laser disc rims and did look int the conversion. Lots of ways to do it, but it looks like you'll need to buy some weather stripping to lay in the rectangular groove where the rim strip sits now. Stans website has instructions.

Let me know how it turns out.


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## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

Tubes? Never heard of them.


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## stunzeed (Mar 17, 2007)

bring back an old thread..if I run 823s and non UST tires - I only need to add stans right?

Is there really a benefit of running the non-UST tires aside from more tire choices


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## bg. (Jan 28, 2004)

stunzeed said:


> bring back an old thread..if I run 823s and non UST tires - I only need to add stans right?
> 
> Is there really a benefit of running the non-UST tires aside from more tire choices


Right. Just add Stans and you'll be fine with most tires.

As for benefits, in addition to more choice non-UST tires are generally lighter.

I've been tubeless since 2003 on all my bikes. I hardly ever run UST tires.


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

Non-UST are a bit easier to install as well. Minor benefit but a benefit none-the-less.
Also, in the case of Maxxis tires, I've _heard_ the sidewalls are thinner on the UST tires and tend to fold over more under hard cornering. I've never ridden UST tires so I can't comment as to whether this is true or not.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

Just got a new wheelset thats built with 823's. Picked up a bottle of Stan's at the local shop and installed my non-UST Maxxis DHF 2.5's. Blasted it with my air compressor and voila. Little bit of shaking to get it to fill the bead leaks and filled them to 40psi and let them sit overnight. Haven't had a burp, only got them last week so just 3 days of riding on it but so far so good. Helps if you have a high psi output capability. My air compressor was set to 100psi+ so the tire has no choice but to seat itself in the bead. Once you hear the distinct pop of the bead finally getting a good seat, make sure not to overfill it cause it could be quite easy if you are using such a high output pressure.


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