# C&O Canal, anyone done this?



## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

The C&O Canal Bicycling Guide - Welcome!


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## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

*I've gone from Cumberland md to DC*

I found it boring. Flat long stretches of nothing special. I wouldn't hurry to do it again.


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

some guy on bikepacking.net did a write up on his adventures on the C&O


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## t0pcat (May 7, 2012)

A link to a review C&O Canal Trail as a bicycle camping trip - report - Review of C&O Canal Historical Park, Maryland - TripAdvisor


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## Rockin (Apr 29, 2004)

I have done DC to Williamsport as an out and back. I thought it was a fun ride. Did it on my fixie cross bike. I thought it was fun, definitely nothing technical anywhere to be found. But fun to stop and check out the history along the way, especially Harpers Ferry.


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## bikewright (Dec 7, 2007)

Here are two links to the posts that I made on my C&O trip

Bikewright: Three Days on the C and O Canal

Bikewright: Three Days on the C and O Canal part II


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## 29ftw (Apr 28, 2010)

I know some folks that have ridden it in a day (about 18hrs) a couple times. I read somewhere the unofficial record is around 12hrs.

I attempted to ride it in a day a few years ago but got rained out after 70mi (really cold rain in the late fall).

I think the best way to do it is over 2days. There is a hotel right at the start in Cumberland so if you get in the night before and start early it's pretty doable..lots of options for camping or hotels along the way.

Like hiking on the AT, it starts to look the same and get boring pretty quickly.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

screw the C&O by itself. Do the whole route instead from Pittsburgh to DC.

Great Allegheny Passage - The official website for the rail-trail system between Pittsburgh, PA and Cumberland, MD


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## longhaultrucker (Jan 24, 2007)

Not yet but it's on my to-ride list,maybe add the Gap to it (I'll be riding up from DC,and back down,no shuttling or car rentals,so I take that into considerations too) and go just north of Pittsburg to finally meet in-person one of my best,most trusted friends (known online and phone for several years) before rolling back south (also,drop in and say hi to the Dirt Rag/Bicycle Times crew :thumbsup. I'd love to do it with the family,or just the wife next year


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Resurrecting Zombie thread to ask a question about trailers... Is a two-wheeled trailer OK or a poor choice? I'm reading conflicting opinions on various sites. Anyone who's done it have an opinion?


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

connolm said:


> Resurrecting Zombie thread to ask a question about trailers... Is a two-wheeled trailer OK or a poor choice? I'm reading conflicting opinions on various sites. Anyone who's done it have an opinion?


The last time I rode it was 1989 or 1990, but it's a canal tow path. It's plenty wide enough. Potential issues might be access control features, and you'd need more current experience to advise on that.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

connolm said:


> Resurrecting Zombie thread to ask a question about trailers... Is a two-wheeled trailer OK or a poor choice? I'm reading conflicting opinions on various sites. Anyone who's done it have an opinion?


I've done the whole thing in pieces, but never in one go. I don't recall any access control barriers that would pose any problem - they're all just posts or rocks that are too close for a car to pass. 
The one place I can think might be a problem - near Georgetown there was a section, maybe 1/4 mile, that was closed. The detour required you to carry up a flight of stairs. That was a few years ago (probably fixed by now), and you aren't really missing any of the experience by not going all the way to Georgetown.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

connolm said:


> Resurrecting Zombie thread to ask a question about trailers... Is a two-wheeled trailer OK or a poor choice? I'm reading conflicting opinions on various sites. Anyone who's done it have an opinion?


What's the total width of your trailer? Is this a DIY trailer or commercially produced? Show us a pic!

As noted upthread, the C&O Towpath surface is kind of bumpity; not smooth at all. Don't know how that would affect towing a trailer.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

The trailer is 26" wide.










I took it out today with a test load. It rattles against the hitch mount on rough trail. The contents also vibrate quite noisily. It's also a bit big for what I plan on taking... It was less than half full with most everything.

This will be great for multi-day road tour. For the C&O I'm going to try to configure a pannier based setup.










Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

And I got it on Amazon for $48. Link is here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005DWFVGI/ref=sxl1?qid=1466289106&sr=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65

The trailer is quite nice! Just probably not right for the Gap/C&O.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

On Amazon, the second top customer review posted on May 17th 2015 was by someone who used it on the C&O. This same person answered a question about the trailer last week (on Amazon) so you might be able to query him there. This is part of his review:



> I estimate I packed about 40 pounds for my trip. For those unfamiliar, the C&O is an unpaved towpath. Day one, one of my companions had a terminal failure of his cargo carry system. This meant I suddenly had to carry half his gear - this brought my weight to well over 60 lbs. The trailer handled it perfectly. HOWEVER - I did not check all the frame screws and lost one on day one. I thought that it was the end, but a bungee cord saved the day and the trip. If you buy this trailer, make sure to tighten the frame screws regularly. Day 3 it poured rain all day. I packed all my gear inside the trailer in garbage bags and all was high and dry. You will not go as fast as normal, offroad with 60 lbs, my average mph was down almost 10


.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

I haven't ridden it yet. Was supposed to have done it a few weeks ago, but plans changed. Still, in the process of planning my trip, I did a lot of reading, and the criticisms I've read of using two-wheeled trailers on the C & O are these:

Sometimes the trail gets overgrown towards the center. You end up with an eastbound rut and a westbound rut with weeds/grass between them. A two wheeled trailer might have to run with a wheel in the grass/weeds, which might be a pain. But it sounds like that is only sections, and not the whole trail. Googling for images, you can see a couple of shots where it could be an issue, or could become an issue if it gets more overgrown. You can see a lot more shots where the trail is wide and bare and it wouldn't be an issue.

The other issue I've read people complaining about is when the trail gets muddy. sometimes it's possible to pick a relatively dryer line to ride, but if you're pulling a two-wheeled trailer, it's going to be in the mud.

Neither of these sound like constant issues, nor do they mean a trailer wouldn't work. It just might not be as pleasant as if the situation were ideal.

Good luck with the trip. I still have some hope of squeezing in a Pittsburgh to DC trip some time this year. Gonna have to get planning soon, though.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Video of scout trip with trailer*

I finally got out with the trailer loaded and hitched up to the bike. I took some video from various vantage points. See below.

The trailer itself is 16.5 pounds. It's loaded up with 23.5 lbs of gear for a total tow weight of 40 lbs. I can post a pack list and photos later.

Comments and/or observations?


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## Mootsmotox (Jul 20, 2016)

I just rode the whole thing a few weeks ago. Flew into Pittsburg and rode to DC. Montour and GAP trails where great. Just outside of Cumberland on the C&O the storms rolled in (heavy rain, hail and lots of mud). I was on my Fatbike so it handled it fine but was rough. I'm sure in dry conditions the trails would be ok but where kinda overgrown and rutty. There where 2 big trees I had to carry over that I'm sure are gone by now.


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## BikesFloat (Jul 27, 2015)

Mootsmotox said:


> I was on my Fatbike so it handled it fine but was rough.


How was the ride on a fatbike? What wheels and tires did you use? I've been considering a 29er wheelset for my fatbike for rides like this.


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## Mootsmotox (Jul 20, 2016)

It was a great ride for a Fatbike. I ride mine everywhere and do a lot of road riding with it so it felt really good on gravel. The bike fully geared down was 58lbs. I run 4" Surly Darryl rims, Hope hubs, 45N Vanhelga up front and a 45N Husker Du in the rear. Bike is setup 1x10. Obviously didn't need the front fork or dropper post but thats how its normally is setup. With the weather I encountered my last day I was so glad I was on this bike. A gravel bike would've been slow going. Granted I was totally covered in mud and trashed my bottom bracket bearings but had a great time.


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## liong71er (Dec 23, 2008)

I rode solo from Pittsburgh to DC last year in June

http://www.strava.com/activities/332256685

And then this year in may

http://www.strava.com/activities/594868235

Both ride was on 29er surly Karate monkey, with fully loaded touring gear
Both of that ride was vCompleted in three days
It may seem or feel boring with long stretch of trails, just don't look far ahead too long, look to your left or right and try to enjoying the rides and views.for me,i love this trails a lot,.. will probably do it again next year.

Have fun!


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I ended up doing it the week of Labor day. I rode all 360 miles from Pittsburgh to DC in seven days.

I lucked out with nearly perfect weather and only one flat tire. The two-wheeled trailer worked out quite fine.

I'm writing up a who trip report and will post it once completed.


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## gap_rider (Nov 13, 2008)

connolm said:


> I ended up doing it the week of Labor day. I rode all 360 miles from Pittsburgh to DC in seven days.
> I lucked out with nearly perfect weather and only one flat tire. The two-wheeled trailer worked out quite fine.


My son and I rode it back in June. Perfect weather until the last day. We rode cross-bikes and towed bob trailers. Overall it was a great ride, nice camping, etc. I'm looking at a solo for the GAP and C&O once I can steal another week away from home & work.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Trip Report: GAP and C&O trails Pittsburgh to DC in early September*

I finally did the ride the first week of September from Pittsburgh to DC in seven days. I chose to use the Allen trailer to haul my gear and rode a 1x9 carbon framed 29er mountain bike.

I wrote a very long and picture heavy trip report. See it here:

http://sites.google.com/site/pittsburghtodcbybike/

Reply if the link doesn't work. I'm not so good with all this fancy web-page creation business so sh:t may by messed up.

I also made of note of what gear I used and didn't use and what I'd do differently. I'll try to put together another page with that information. Ultimately, I carried about 30 lbs of stuff for seven days and stopped in Maryland (warmer night time temps) to send some stuff home.


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## gap_rider (Nov 13, 2008)

connolm said:


> I finally did the ride the first week of September from Pittsburgh to DC in seven days. I chose to use the Allen trailer to haul my gear and rode a 1x9 carbon framed 29er mountain bike.


Great report. I initially built a 1x9 steel 29er for my planned C&O expedition a couple years prior. Decided on the cross bike with additional riding experience between the planning and execution of the trip. Like you, I agonized on the gear weight the night before starting out and was likely over packed (70lb +) including a floor pump, 7 1/2 lb tent, clean on the bike clothes I never wore, etc. We bought the 2nd Bob on our start day and tried to even out the load. So a couple things to work on to cut weight for my solo follow-up trip. I think I could reasonably get my weight into the 20-30 lb range with some realistic planning rather than throwing everything in the bag that will fit. My experience was based on great weather so its still important to be sure to include the insurance gear in planning for other contingencies.


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## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

connolm said:


> I finally did the ride the first week of September from Pittsburgh to DC in seven days. I chose to use the Allen trailer to haul my gear and rode a 1x9 carbon framed 29er mountain bike.
> 
> I wrote a very long and picture heavy trip report. See it here:
> 
> ...


That IS a long report! But it is excellent. Thanks for taking the time to post it!


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Rather than create a separate webpage, I'll post my gear comments here.

I rode Pittsburgh to Washington, D.C. in the first week of September using an Allen Trailer to haul my _self-supporting _gear over seven days.

*Main gear:*









*Top row L to R:*
Old Energizer headlamp
Battery pack from Goal Zero Nomad 7
3 cellphone batteries 0.29 lbs
3 AAA (for headlamp) and 2 AA batteries
paper towels
Toilet paper and ziploc in a ziploc
Thermarest Pillow
Toiletries in ziploc
20000 mAh USB charger 0.97 lbs
Stove fuel in REI plastic bottle
Sea to Summit towel 0.52 lbs
Freeze dried food in ziploc

*Middle row L to R:*

Azurec 3 Person Tent 6.2 lbs
Frogg Toggs Poncho
Cycling duds (jersey and shorts)
Trash Compactor bag
Disposable plastic paint tarp and paracord
Red Bike lock
Velcro wrap closure
Cut open 2-liter soda bottle
(containing energy bars & gels and Mio water flavor drops)
Chamois gloves
Klymitt Static V air mattress 1.3 lbs
Artificial silk liner 0.3 lbs
Stoic Vamp 30 down mummy bag 2.3 lbs
water

*Bottom row L to R:*
DeLorme InReach 0.43 lbs
Uco Candle Lantern&candles 0.39 lbs
Medical kit 0.26 lbs
small firestarter sticks
1/3 sponge
plastic fork
Knife/spork combo
Trangia alcohol stove 0.98 lbs
(_stored inside stove_: fuel, bic lighter, tea/splenda, foil windscreen, lightload towels, sponge, matchbook)
Sea to Summit X Cup 0.13 lbs
Cheapy poncho & more paper towels in zip-loc bag
Cat

*Not pictured:
*Columbia Zip-off convertible pants
Field and Stream Lattitude Long Sleeve Shirt
Park Tools cycling cap
Crocs Swiftwater sandal

Repair kit (not pictured)
2 spare 29er tubes, 1 tube for trailer, pump, patch kit, multi tool, tire levers
2 water bottles on bike, 5-6 zip ties, 1 tire boot, 1 "magic link" chain link, lube


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

And this is the stuff I carried from Pittsburgh but mailed home from Shepherdstown:









*Top L to R:*

Grease and carbone paste
Sea to Summit X cup
Nomad 7 Solar charger
DEET insect repellent
Single use contact lenses
Torque wrench
Headphones
Naproxen pain reliever
Compression stockings (for my varicose vein leg)

*Middle L to R:*
Base Layer microfiber long sleeve shirt
REI polyester shirt
Synthetic underwear
Arm and leg warmers
Rain hat

*Bottom L to R:*
Second trash compactor bag
Spare water bottle
Chamois cream
Lixada fireplace
Packing tape
long finger cycling gloves
merino wool socks
folding camp stool
Rain suit top and bottom


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

We did the trip from Pittsburgh to DC in June, 2 and a half years ago. We were not camping, but staying at hotels and B&Bs.

I noticed that many of the campsites we passed were not mowed and it looked like tick paradise; one of our riders contracted Lyme disease on our trip. It took him about a year to get it all sorted out, healthwise. 
At least one other person also found a tick looking for dinner.

Just a reminder to add tick patrol to your camping protocol. Here's some more info from the interwebs about DEET and permethrin.



> *Repel Ticks: Use DEET*
> Of all the various insect repellents available, DEET has been shown to be the most effective at repelling ticks. "There is pretty good data that DEET works against ticks," confirms Durland Fish, professor of epidemiology at the Yale School of Public Health. Other repellents, including those that contain picaridin, are simply not proven to fend off the blood-suckers. "We're pretty confident that DEET works," agrees Dr. Tom Mather, director of the Center for Vector-Borne Disease at the University of Rhode Island and its Tick Encounter Resource Center. "Those other repellents have just not been effectively tested against ticks."
> 
> *Kill Ticks: Use Permethrin*
> ...


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## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

connolm, I hope you don't mind, but I shared your story link on another site where I hang out. It is a cycling site, but mostly we hang out bs'ing about everything. Once in a while we even talk cycling! Ha! Turns out, one of the guys in the group on that site met you while on this ride!! He took the pic of you (and his bike) at the opening of one of the tunnels. Small world. 

Again, thanks for sharing your story and now the list of gear you used. I'm sure it is helpful for many!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Just a quick question. Would this be a good trail for a noob bikepacker? I would possibly like to hit this early next summer, or maybee even over Spring Break in March. I have been hiking and camping all of my life so I am not worried about that side of things. Is there a specific time where the larger biting bugs are less active? I know that up in Canada and the UP early summer is the worst time for horse flies etc..

Would also like to hit it in the winter sometime. Is it doable in the winter...or more specifically, are there parts that are absolutely impassible in the winter?


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## riderx (Jan 6, 2004)

Good for a noob. You can do the whole thing or just sections, lots of options. Spring break would probably be fine but may be muddy in some spots and handles may not be on the water pumps yet, so water will need to be gotten other places. Bugs are probably the worst in summer but usually not terrible. Winter is fine as long as it is not deep snow or ice. Seasonal updates can be found here: https://www.nps.gov/choh/index.htm

Check the link bellow for lots of info, section by section including mileage between camps and towns
The C&O Canal Bicycling Guide - Welcome!


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

There is at least one tunnel that is closed in the winter. I think it's the same tunnel that was only opened to bike traffic in the last several years, so there should be an established route around it. I'd be concerned about snow at the northern end, but I don't really know how much of an issue that is. I grew up just slightly farther north and we had snow pretty consistently in the winter, but we also had a Great Lake close enough to affect the weather.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Thanks for the replies guys! This all helps a lot. 

I live in Central Ohio so I hear ya about the Lake effect snow. WE get that down here, but it is usually off of Lake Michigan believe it or not. We are too far west to get lake Erie effect. That is what Rob_E gets. 

I am thinking that at least part of this is going to happen in Spring. Not too worried about the mud, as long as it is not like mud rivers you see sometimes after floods. Have already bookmarked the link! Looks like I have something to plan over Christmas Break!


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## riderx (Jan 6, 2004)

Rob_E said:


> There is at least one tunnel that is closed in the winter.


What tunnel are you referring to? The only major tunnel on the C&O is the Paw Paw and that does not get closed.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

riderx said:


> What tunnel are you referring to? The only major tunnel on the C&O is the Paw Paw and that does not get closed.


Not actually part of the C&O. A lot of discussion on here is about the combined GAP + C&O, and the tunnel I was thinking of is on GAP. I should have specified.

On the GAP, there's currently an alert saying the Big Savage Tunnel will be closing for the winter starting tomorrow. There is also (on the GAP) the Pinkerton tunnel, and I don't know if it is open in the winter or not.


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## cboyd01 (Dec 1, 2015)

On the camping side, do the campsites have trees suitable for hammock camping? For solar camping, I'd prefer a good hang. 

This looks like a fun ride to start the family out on a bike backing trip, too.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I met a guy using a hammock at Evit's Creek just outside Cumberland. I think you can make it work. Some campsites will be better than others. 

If you pull into a campsite that won't work, don't despair. Luckily the signage usually indicates the distance to the next one. Most campsites are only 5-10 miles apart.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Check out this great website for pictures and a description of every campsite along the C&O:

http://elephanteating.blogspot.com/2009/03/c-and-o-canal-campsite-guide.html?m=1

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## Flat_side (Sep 12, 2015)

Some friends and I did a 100 mi section from little orleans, md to harpers ferry in a weekend this past fall. It was our intro to bikepacking trip. Had a blast! Looking to do the whole stretch, from Pittsburgh to D.C.in April 


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Flat_side said:


> Some friends and I did a 100 mi section from little orleans, md to harpers ferry in a weekend this past fall. It was our intro to bikepacking trip. Had a blast! Looking to do the whole stretch, from Pittsburgh to D.C.in April
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cool. I might try do do a small section over Spring Break, and then the whole thing in the summer. It sort of depends on some other things falling into place monetarily...


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Moneywise - getting one-way from Boston to Pittsburgh and one-way from D.C. back to Boston was the most expensive part! _Anyone have thoughts on how to do it?_

I rented a car from Budget one-way at each end. I think I ended up paying $180-200 each way. They'll quote you a price - but then taxes and extras push it closer to $200. Amtrak is certainly an option too - but the schedule is a bit limited.


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## jski (Mar 15, 2009)

I plan on riding a small portion out and back in June and leaving my vehicle in a garage for the time I'm on the trail. Has anyone done this? Any suggestions for parking garages near the trailhead in DC?


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

jski said:


> I plan on riding a small portion out and back in June and leaving my vehicle in a garage for the time I'm on the trail. Has anyone done this? Any suggestions for parking garages near the trailhead in DC?


We left our van in long-term parking at the airport in DC. Getting around DC by bike was easy and safe, so it was no problem getting over to the airport at the end of our tour to pick up the van to start the long drive home. Point 0 on the C & O is hidden away but you can persevere and find it.

The C&O Canal Bicycling Guide - Mile 0 thru 10


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## TrailNRG (Jul 21, 2010)

The early sections (mile 0 - 15) of trail are often crowded and slow going. If you can drive out of DC via 495 or I-270 you'll find some nicer options and camping spots along the river too. 
A personal out & back favorite for a day or overnight trip is from Dickerson Power Plant (mile 41) to Harper's Ferry (mile 60). You can access the power plant via 495 to I-270 and overnight parking is available there. If you choose to camp you'll ride North of Harper's Ferry and there are riverside spots between there and Shepherdstown as well as dedicated (Antietam Creek, etc) parks.
There's some nice scenery up that way and you won't spend a good portion of your day saying "on your left"!


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## riderx (Jan 6, 2004)

I second avoiding the DC area portion. Be advised, between Point of Rocks and Harpers Ferry can be noisy for camping since the train runs right next to the canal and they run all night. I recommend camping upstream from Harpers Ferry. There is a nice spot about a mile upstream from Shepardstown. Shepardstown has food and beer options if you want to pop in there for a meal or resupply.

The section around Harpers Ferry gets crowded on weekends, but it is a short stretch.

If you don't just want to do just the canal, you can start in Frederick, MD and ride to the canal, then head on the canal to the Shepardstown area. Depending on your route it will be 80-100 round trip and you can get some nice country roads in as well. Roughly half the route would be on the canal.



TrailNRG said:


> The early sections (mile 0 - 15) of trail are often crowded and slow going. If you can drive out of DC via 495 or I-270 you'll find some nicer options and camping spots along the river too.
> A personal out & back favorite for a day or overnight trip is from Dickerson Power Plant (mile 41) to Harper's Ferry (mile 60). You can access the power plant via 495 to I-270 and overnight parking is available there. If you choose to camp you'll ride North of Harper's Ferry and there are riverside spots between there and Shepherdstown as well as dedicated (Antietam Creek, etc) parks.
> There's some nice scenery up that way and you won't spend a good portion of your day saying "on your left"!


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

Back on the subject of tunnel closures, the Paw Paw tunnel is currently closed: https://www.nps.gov/choh/learn/news/co-canal-towpath-closure-paw-paw-tunnel.htm

With a project time of 120-150 days, and a start date of June 2, it doesn't look like it will reopen until fall/winter. There's a way around, but I didn't try it. I was supposed to go through there on June 2nd or 3rd, but I ended up scrapping that plan and only riding the GAP. Since it might be tough to fit another bike trip in this year, I will probably save the C & O for a later date, when the tunnel is reopened.


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## chadmeeh (Jan 2, 2005)

Rob_E said:


> Back on the subject of tunnel closures, the Paw Paw tunnel is currently closed: https://www.nps.gov/choh/learn/news/co-canal-towpath-closure-paw-paw-tunnel.htm
> 
> With a project time of 120-150 days, and a start date of June 2, it doesn't look like it will reopen until fall/winter. There's a way around, but I didn't try it. I was supposed to go through there on June 2nd or 3rd, but I ended up scrapping that plan and only riding the GAP. Since it might be tough to fit another bike trip in this year, I will probably save the C & O for a later date, when the tunnel is reopened.


I can confirm this, I was just there a few days ago. The way around is basically a regular mountain bike trail going over that section of mountain. I didn't ride it myself, but some folks I met at the parking spot there told me this. Said "at best it was treacherous". Not exactly sure what her definition of that is, but doesn't sound pleasant.


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## RetroGrouchNJ (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm trying to put together a GAP/C&O ride with a buddy, probably from Pittsburgh to DC. He is closer to Pittsburgh and I'm closer to the DC end.

Problem 1 - Will I hate myself if I ride 29x3.0 tires for 300+ miles on this trail over 4 to 5 days? My bike choices are my full suspension rig or a rigid fat bike (26x4.xx tires). I'm thinking about building a set of 29+ wheels for summer fat bike use.

Problem 2 - Shuttling to/from end points via train - I'm thinking about leaving a car near DC and taking Amtrak to Pittsburgh to meet my buddy for the start of the ride. We have a mutual friend outside DC so I may be able to leave my car there if I can hitch a ride (or just ride) to Union Station in DC. Amtrak has room for bikes on some trains but allegedly the racks are limited to 2.0 inch max tire width. Do I really have to mount some 2.0 (max) tires just for the train ride?


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

RetroGrouchNJ said:


> I'm trying to put together a GAP/C&O ride with a buddy, probably from Pittsburgh to DC. He is closer to Pittsburgh and I'm closer to the DC end.
> 
> Problem 1 - Will I hate myself if I ride 29x3.0 tires for 300+ miles on this trail over 4 to 5 days? My bike choices are my full suspension rig or a rigid fat bike (26x4.xx tires). I'm thinking about building a set of 29+ wheels for summer fat bike use.
> 
> Problem 2 - Shuttling to/from end points via train - I'm thinking about leaving a car near DC and taking Amtrak to Pittsburgh to meet my buddy for the start of the ride. We have a mutual friend outside DC so I may be able to leave my car there if I can hitch a ride (or just ride) to Union Station in DC. Amtrak has room for bikes on some trains but allegedly the racks are limited to 2.0 inch max tire width. Do I really have to mount some 2.0 (max) tires just for the train ride?


You certainly won't need 3" tires, at least not on the GAP end. I rode it once with my 2.15" tires and once with 2.5. Both were fine. I enjoy my 2.5, but, like you, I worried about their compatibility with the train. My 2.15" tires presented no problem. I have no idea, though, how wide you can actually go. But there is a solution, I think. If memory serves, the cost of boxing your bike is almost the same as getting it rack space. Less convenient, but the Amtrak boxes are pretty big. Remove the pedals, turn your handlebars sideways (or remove them if you don't have flat bars), and tape up the box. I've done that before there was bike service, and it was not a big deal. DC Union Station and Pittsburgh are both baggage stops, so it should be an option.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I was planning on boxing and Amtraking too. In the end, I rented a car one-way.

That was couple years ago now. But I searched a lot and got a car for 24 hours for like $140. That allowed me to travel on my schedule and stay in a cheaper hotel before I started.

I just checked and trains get in to Pittsburgh at 7:59 and 11:48 PM - truly horrible times for bikepacking. That was the deciding factor for me.

I rode 2.3" Schwalbe Rocket Ron's. They were good in the rain. Beyond that, cyclocross tires might be better suited. 3" tires would be fun but not efficient. 

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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I plan on doing it on my Krampus, with 3" tires....just used to them.

Also, good info about getting from one place to the other. My cousin and I are planning on doing this, and I thought we would leave the car somewhere in P-burgh, and then train back. I would be more worried about the car's safety as well...like where to leave it so it does not get harmed


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## RetroGrouchNJ (Jan 28, 2011)

The midnight Amtrak arrival in Pittsburgh sucks but the checked bike box for $15 plus $10 for a box, if you need one, is certainly reasonable. The carry-on rack is $20 but there are allegedly only 8 rack spaces.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

I just did this in November. 
I used a weds with a plus front and 2.35 rear, which was fine. There are parts where you’d be better off with a gravel bike, and parts where you’ll be thankful to have the extra volume. 
We took the Amtrak to Pitts, and yes there are only 8ish spaces on the train, and none of the hooks will fit a plus tire, but you can lean your bikes (if you’re traveling with a homie) against the other wall and strap them together with the provided lashing straps connected to the wall and the car floor. 
So don’t worry about the racks. The Amtrak employees don’t really care either, so however you put your bike in there is fine by them as long as it doesn’t mess with anybody else’s stuff. 
I’m itching to do it again, under better conditions. The gap was sweet, the c&o was muddy the whole way, with 2.5days of weather during the ride. 
Having had the experience, I’d say anytime in early October is prime. It’s the off season so you have the trail to yourself for the most part, but the weather is perfect for that kind of ride, and the leaves haven’t fallen to obscure any trail features that could rub your tender butts, from consecutive days touring, the wrong way.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

Chippertheripper said:


> I just did this in November.
> I used a weds with a plus front and 2.35 rear, which was fine. There are parts where you'd be better off with a gravel bike, and parts where you'll be thankful to have the extra volume.
> We took the Amtrak to Pitts, and yes there are only 8ish spaces on the train, and none of the hooks will fit a plus tire, but you can lean your bikes (if you're traveling with a homie) against the other wall and strap them together with the provided lashing straps connected to the wall and the car floor.
> So don't worry about the racks. The Amtrak employees don't really care either, so however you put your bike in there is fine by them as long as it doesn't mess with anybody else's stuff.


That is very valuable information. I've been trying to figure this trip with my plus wheelset, and it's been a problem, especially since one version of the trip has me hopping off the train in Connellsville, so boxing isn't an option.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

At some point Amtrak will get with it and procure some hooks that will accommodate fat/plus wheels, they know it’s a thing, but bikes on the train isn’t a huge source of revenue for them, so don’t hold your breath.


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## RetroGrouchNJ (Jan 28, 2011)

How bad are mosquitoes/bugs in late Sept-early Oct? Do I need a head net while riding, a head net in camp, or just repellent with DEET?

EDIT: My shelter plans include bug netting. I'm worried about riding, rest stops, meals, and in camp before bed.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I rode in mid September. I recall the bugs weren't a problem while riding. However they were a problem in camp at night. Many of the camps are near swampy areas infested with mosquitos. You may get lucky if you can start a fire.

My last night at the campground closest to Washington D. C. was the worst! Ground fires are prohibited there. Bugs were so bad I ate in my tent and went to bed. It was insufferable outside.

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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

One of the riders on our GAP/C&O trip got Lyme Disease and we were credit card touring, not even camping out. DEET is good for mosquitoes, but here's what the CDC recommends for tick protection:


> Treat clothing and gear, such as boots, pants, socks and tents with products containing 0.5% permethrin. It remains protective through several washings. Pre-treated clothing is available and may be protective longer.


I liked the GAP part a bit more than the C&O part, but it was all good. I actually missed the sound of trains when we left the GAP section. We got used to them rolling, blowing whistles, clanking along.

We parked in long-term parking at the DC airport and paid for a shuttle to Pittsburgh. It was nice at the end of our trip, because we could ride our bikes safely on bike paths right to the airport to pick up our cars. IIRC, there is a bike/pedestrian path to Mr. Vernon. We stayed over a few days at the end to visit museums.

Uber and Lyft weren't yet a "thing" when we did our trip, but it would be easy enough to get one to a motel/hotel right on the path if you took the train that arrives in Pittsburgh in the middle of the damn night.

Also, I loved Pittsburgh. People were very friendly. There are bike paths along the rivers and our motel was right on the path. We also rode to the craziest bike museum-store-place ever. Three floors of just bike...stuff. Can't remember the name, but worth a visit.


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## RetroGrouchNJ (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like a head net is overkill for the first week of October. I can deal with a can of DEET spray in camp.

As of now, it looks like we will spend a few days on a portion of the GAP and maybe some of the C&O, possibly as far down as Leesburg where we have a buddy willing to shuttle us. We might shorten the ride a bit to spend a couple days at Raystown/Allegrippis. My buddy is itching to spend a week on the bike and likes the idea of some proper singletrack at Raystown.

Of course, this depends on his healing up after a bad crash he had a couple weeks ago resulting in a mangled body and bike. I'm pushing him towards buying a new Karate Monkey as a replacement if he does not want to take his vintage hardtail.


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## mosovich (Apr 19, 2004)

Anyone been in May? I'm thinking first week or mid May.. Never been before. I was thinking of driving to Cumberland, taking train to Pittsburgh, staying in a hotel that night, then get going the next morning.. That way I could take my own time and when I'm done, get in the car and head home.. 

Thoughts?


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

mosovich said:


> Anyone been in May? I'm thinking first week or mid May.. Never been before. I was thinking of driving to Cumberland, taking train to Pittsburgh, staying in a hotel that night, then get going the next morning.. That way I could take my own time and when I'm done, get in the car and head home..
> 
> Thoughts?


Are you talking about the GAP instead of the C & O?
I've been on the GAP in late May and mid June. Fine both times, but that is an iffy time of year. I camp in Central Ohio most Memorial day weekends, and the climate is similar to PA. Some treats it's toasty, some years it's quite cold. Although only one year do I remember it getting into the 30s, so I guess it depends on your tolerances. I'd be okay planning a trip then, but I'd also be prepared with some cold weather gear, just in case. But usually it's fine, I think. I'm sure the weather averages are online somewhere.

As far as I know, if you take the train to Pittsburgh, staying overnight in town is almost required. I think it gets in quite late. I've ridden from Pittsburgh to Cumberland 3 times, and always slept in Pittsburgh the night before I started.

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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

It does get in late. I’d just get right on the trail and find a place to crash. After a sammie and a beer, obviously.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

Chippertheripper said:


> It does get in late. I'd just get right on the trail and find a place to crash. After a sammie and a beer, obviously.


Gets in close to midnight. Closest campground is Davos Cemetary, about 25 out. You might be able to stealth camp closer, but it's pretty urban up to that point. If you were really averse to spending a night in town, it's doable, but I'd rather sleep in town, leave in daylight, grabbing a good breakfast on the way out.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Yeah, I’d roach camp it somewhere close. 
I’ll trade the breffis for the late night pub grub. 
Besides, there’s decent breakfast in McKeesport if I recall.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

mosovich said:


> Anyone been in May? I'm thinking first week or mid May.. Never been before. I was thinking of driving to Cumberland, taking train to Pittsburgh, staying in a hotel that night, then get going the next morning.. That way I could take my own time and when I'm done, get in the car and head home..
> 
> Thoughts?


Cannot recall if the trail needs to go into downtown Harpers Ferry, or of it bye-passes on the other side of the river, but note that there was a major train derailment on the railroad bridge that has the pedestrian/bike path (also the Appalachian Trail) that crosses the Potomac. The walkway across the river was destroyed for a couple of hundred feet.

Currently there is no good way into Harpers Ferry by bike or foot from the east side of the river and no current info. from the Nat'l Park Service as to when they expect this to be restored.

SB


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

If they are starting in Pittsburgh and ending in Cumberland, they won't actually be on the C&O, so that won't be an issue. Also the C&O doesn't actually cross the river, so as far I can tell, the C&O isn't affected. You just can't leave the C&O to visit Harper's Ferry.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

Rob_E said:


> If they are starting in Pittsburgh and ending in Cumberland, they won't actually be on the C&O, so that won't be an issue. Also the C&O doesn't actually cross the river, so as far I can tell, the C&O isn't affected. You just can't leave the C&O to visit Harper's Ferry.


Thx, wasn't sure. In any event the current poster is talking about the GAP trail if it's Pittsburgh.


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## mosovich (Apr 19, 2004)

Yes, the GAP trail.. Thanks alot. I'm going to shoot for May.. This is all good info and I appreciate it.. Anyone recommend a hotel?


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## 5b00 (May 31, 2009)

mosovich said:


> Anyone recommend a hotel?


The Wyndham Grand Pittsburgh is right next to the official start of the GAP in Point State Park. I called ahead and they were OK with receiving and holding on to my bike and wheels shipped USPS in several large boxes.

The folks at Yoder's Guest House in Meyersdale are incredibly nice and accommodating, even when I showed up unexpectedly on Thanksgiving evening. There's a separate enclosed bike parking area so you won't feel like a savage tracking mud inside.


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