# Water bottles on bike?



## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

Maybe someone can explain. I still don't get water bottles on bike. I have seen a lot of XC racers make sub-20 lb rigs just to put a couple of pounds water bottles on it. Like the example of pushing a 50 lb barrel up a hill or carrying it on your back. Carrying on your back is easier. 


Why spend thousands of dollars on shaving grams here and there to make a superlight rig and then put a couple pounds of water bottles on it?


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Because no matter what you do, you're gonna need water during your ride. Whether it's on your back (Camelbak) or bolted to the frame using water bottle holders, the weight is still there, and still needs to get up the hill/mountain. It doesn't matter to the effort required to get up the climb. Weight is weight. The only difference you might experience is the "flik-ability| of the bike with the weight on the frame versus on your back. The bike will be slightly easier to manoeuvre when the weight is on your back.

However arguments can be made for water bottles on the frame being better, as the residual weight of an empty water bottle is substantially less than the same for a Camelbak, and you can always toss the water bottles to the side of the race course (for pick up later) whereas the Camelbak will probably have your tools in it too. Another plus to the water in the bottles is that squeezing water from the bottle into your mouth is easier and faster that sucking it from the Camelbak straw.

My preference is the Camelbak.


----------



## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

short answer: because most of the peeps here build bikes to ride + to keep riding you need to hydrate 


if i'm on a ride longer than 90 mins i'll wear a Deuter Race Air Lite @ 825g empty *without* bladder, gear, water ect. - its very hefty - but the floating airback design works brilliantly - especially in the heat


backpack's regular contents for local rides

*but* for shorter rides a water bottle or two will help fend off bonking + is much lighter 


64g Andriolo 750ml water bottle


10.1g Steinbach carbon bottle cage


0.6g 2x mod M5 x 10mm nylon water bottle bolts


----------



## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

I hate Camelbacks and never use them. I don't agree that carrying water in a Camelback is the same as carrying it on your bike. Having all that weight on you back will prematurely cause it to hurt. Plus the added heat from the backpack.

Of course, there are some places where you just can't carry enough water on your bike. I have carried 2 bottles on the bike and two in jersey pockets, but this is not ideal (and sometimes still not enough). When on super long rides, with no access to water, I will break down and carry a pack. I have at times altered routes to make a trip by known water sources to avoid a Camelback.


----------



## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

Nice pics of weights. My camelbak only weighs 240 grams empty, so compared to the cage and bottle it is only 80 grams more, plus it holds 70 oz compared to only 18 oz. If I bring tools I can keep the weight down to less than 300 grams with essentials. However, bottle or no bottle most still have to bring tools. I don't see much of a weigh difference. 80 grams difference is a power bar.


----------



## jdfelt (Mar 29, 2009)

I carry a Jandd hydration pack (circa 1995) for any rides below 80 degrees and/or greater than an hour between access to the car. Otherwise it is really nice to not have the weight on your back and also to allow your back to breath when it is really warm out. I am about ready to buy a Wingnut pack that sits lower on the hips to take the weight off of your back and allow better air circulation.

On really long rides I take water in a pack and electrolyte drink in the bottle.

http://wingnutgear.com/product_details.cfm?product_id=112


----------



## Fiendbear (May 8, 2009)

DavidR1 said:


> I hate Camelbacks and never use them. I don't agree that carrying water in a Camelback is the same as carrying it on your bike. Having all that weight on you back will prematurely cause it to hurt. Plus the added heat from the backpack.


+1 on that. And not only do Camelbaks add additional weight to the total rider package, that's additional weight and stress on your knees too.

Personally, I can haul ass for 3+ hours with two tall water bottles and remain fully hydrated. I am also WAY faster using bottles and feel so "free". And for me, that is the essence of mtb riding.

To each his own I guess...


----------



## bigfruits (Mar 21, 2011)

weight on the bike is alot different than weight on your body or back. attach a 10lb weight to your bike and ride for a few minutes and then ride with 10lbs in a backpack. youre going to climb faster/easier and be able to move the bike quicker with the weight on your back.
also if you have the water on the bike, you probably have your tool and pump there as well. unless, of course, you have your friend with the Camelbak carry that. 

i´d tell someone who hasnt tried both to do so. its all preference. if extended rides with a water bladder hurt your back, use a water bottle. but think twice when you spend $350 to shave a few grams which i think is what the OP was talking about.


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

bigfruits said:


> weight on the bike is alot different than weight on your body or back. attach a 10lb weight to your bike and ride for a few minutes and then ride with 10lbs in a backpack. youre going to climb faster/easier and be able to move the bike quicker with the weight on your back...


I think the opposite is true. It's far better biomechanically to have a couple of water bottles on your bike (eg. 1.5kg of water) than the same on your back. Also the added weight of a camelbak will be more than the weight of a couple of bottles. It's easier to have the bike support that weight rather than having your back, legs and arms support it.

I never take a camelbak if I don't need more than 1.5kg of water. I also put all my tools incl. pump on the bike.


----------



## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

Well this is can be a whole can of worm... Would carrying a water bottle improve handling by having the weight lower to the ground and improve stability as having a heavier frame, thus actually making you go faster in the real world? For me carrying a Camelbak is hot, ruins my expensive jersey, and restricts my movement.


----------



## Fiendbear (May 8, 2009)

bigfruits said:


> youre going to climb faster/easier and be able to move the bike quicker with the weight on your back.


Sorry, but that's total BS. My lap times are WAY faster with water bottles. And I'm talking 2 to 3 hour courses here. Perhaps that's also why you never see XC racers wearing Cambelbaks. Hey, I think I just answered the OP's question.


----------



## D_Man (Jan 7, 2004)

Depends on where you are riding. Lots of my Local trails sound here are mined with horse poop. I'll take a sweaty back to giardia.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Depends mostly on what type of rider you are.
I was a elite level ride back in days, never use a Camelbak, now I´m a recreational rider with a all-day bike so a camelbak is a must, more freedom what to take with you and your gear is more shielded from damage when you fall off, your mobile phone can be shielded much better than your jersey pocket and don´t mention about your back, there´s a lot between a rock and your back when using a camelbak.


----------



## bigfruits (Mar 21, 2011)

Fiendbear said:


> Sorry, but that's total BS. My lap times are WAY faster with water bottles. And I'm talking 2 to 3 hour courses here. Perhaps that's also why you never see XC racers wearing Cambelbaks. Hey, I think I just answered the OP's question.


cool, so if i lose 10lbs off of my body it will be like having a 11lb mtn bike. sweet!


----------



## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

D_Man said:


> Depends on where you are riding. Lots of my Local trails sound here are mined with horse poop. I'll take a sweaty back to giardia.


Actually dog poop is much more dangerous. While nasty, instances of horse dung carrying giardia is rare. Other types of nasty bacteria are common though.

If my trails were like this, I may consider a front fender and a camelback as well.


----------



## Bbbrad (Sep 30, 2008)

Every time you stand up off the seat to pedal, pump, jump, turn, descend you're lifting however many pounds your camelpack weighs. You have that constant weight on you that you have to lift and move every time you move. No so with water bottles attached to the bike. It's not even close how much less strain it puts on me carrying 3 pounds of water on the bike vs carrying it on my back...it's easier to move something on wheels than to carry it.


----------



## newnan3 (Sep 30, 2010)

Bbbrad said:


> Every time you stand up off the seat to pedal, pump, jump, turn, descend you're lifting however many pounds your camelpack weighs. You have that constant weight on you that you have to lift and move every time you move. No so with water bottles attached to the bike. It's not even close how much less strain it puts on me carrying 3 pounds of water on the bike vs carrying it on my back...it's easier to move something on wheels than to carry it.


+1

This was always my rationale. Also, with a camelbak Ill tend to carry things i dont really need.....


----------



## zburt (Jun 9, 2007)

I have noticed that my neck hurts less when I use the water bottle for the same amount of ride time.


----------



## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

This is so ironic that this question of putting a water bottle on a bike is brought up in the ww forum.


----------



## henrymiller1 (Apr 25, 2008)

After reading this, i have decided to loose 4 lbs and get a bigger pack. Thanks


----------



## markw1970 (Oct 8, 2007)

Ask anyone who tours with a bike... panniers or backpack? I have no evidence to support my statement, but I suspect the majority would answer "panniers". There's a lot of good reasons why you'd carry weight on the bike, rather than your back.


----------



## Bbbrad (Sep 30, 2008)

Yeah...the wheel was quite a breakthrough. If only more people knew how useful it was for transporting things instead of carrying stuff on their backs.


----------



## Ansible (Jan 30, 2004)

why people use water bottles:
- serious xc racers likely spend a lot of time training on the road, where they get used to water bottles.
- in less technical terrain (road, buff xc trails) water bottles aren't too bad of a liability (one hand steering, reaching for the bottle, etc)
- less weight on your back is a good thing.
- if you drink a sports drink instead of water, water bottles are dishwasher friendly.

why people use camelbaks:
- camelbaks are easier to use on trails where you want 2 hands for steering. if you haven't got advanced water bottle skills most people will prefer a camelbak.
- in more technical terrain it is an advantage to have the bike be lighter weight - for instance if you're lunging up a 2 foot ledge, or over a large diameter log. xc courses tend to not have this kind of obstacle.
- in more technical terrain your water bottle is more apt to bounce off the frame.

Then there's this:

http://www.campylobacterblog.com/ca...ls-campylobacter-outbreak-at-wales-bike-race/


----------



## nikojan (Jun 18, 2011)

Are you guys serious, you honestly take the time to weigh bolts and zip ties...thats really pathetic.


----------



## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

nikojan said:


> Are you guys serious, you honestly take the time to weigh bolts and zip ties...thats really pathetic.


Why do the clydesdales always feel like they need to make fun of the people in the WW forum? We don't go into the clydesdales forum and make fun of them for...being huge.


----------



## nikojan (Jun 18, 2011)

Clydesdale isn't a synonym for huge, I'm 6'5 and well built. Lets play a quick game, fill in the blank. 

______, dark, and handsome  

Heres a hint, it's not 'weight-weenie'


----------



## Bbbrad (Sep 30, 2008)

Clydes can (and should) be weight weenies too! All things being equal, less weight = better performance.
For some people there are more productive/efficient areas to lose weight (like their asses) but for some people who are really low in BODY FAT (regardless of height/weight/size) the only other place to lose weight/increase performance is the bike...


----------



## monolith (Jul 10, 2007)

nikojan said:


> Clydesdale isn't a synonym for huge, I'm 6'5 and well built. Lets play a quick game, fill in the blank.
> 
> ______, dark, and handsome
> 
> Heres a hint, it's not 'weight-weenie'


Obnoxious?


----------



## nikojan (Jun 18, 2011)

monolith said:


> Obnoxious?


Thats one word for it, another would be the truth...


----------



## monolith (Jul 10, 2007)

What, " Truth, Dark, and Handsome"?


----------



## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

nikojan said:


> Clydesdale isn't a synonym for huge, I'm 6'5 and well built. Lets play a quick game, fill in the blank.
> 
> ______, dark, and handsome
> 
> Heres a hint, it's not 'weight-weenie'


Didn't know I entered the singles forum for the gay folk. Let me guess. Maybe ... I wear tight striped shirts, dark, and handsome?


----------



## markw1970 (Oct 8, 2007)

nikojan said:


> Are you guys serious, you honestly take the time to weigh bolts and zip ties...thats really pathetic.


I'm always amazed at the way people are so rude to each other on the internet. Absolutely no need for this. I expect if we all chatted face-to-face we'd get on a lot better. As for the initial question, there looks to be lots of good answers from people who sit either side of the camp (bottles or backpacks).


----------



## nikojan (Jun 18, 2011)

loggerhead said:


> Didn't know I entered the singles forum for the gay folk. Let me guess. Maybe ... I wear tight striped shirts, dark, and handsome?


Wow, apparently you're both retarded. It's Tall, dark, and handsome. :thumbsup:


----------



## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

bigfruits said:


> cool, so if i lose 10lbs off of my body it will be like having a 11lb mtn bike. sweet!


No. Actually, it wont be anything like that at all.


----------



## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

nikojan said:


> Wow, apparently you're both retarded. It's Tall, dark, and handsome. :thumbsup:


No, I think my answer was a better fit for you:thumbsup:


----------



## nikojan (Jun 18, 2011)

That may be so, loggerhead, but the fact still remains that the iconic quote is "Tall, dark, and handsome"; maybe next time.


----------



## nikojan (Jun 18, 2011)

nvm...








calm down, its a joke.


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

i gained a few pounds of body weight since last year and didnt really notice it. but when i bought a bike that was 2 pounds less than the previous, i noticed it alot. i look at a camelback as extra body weight. and that feels different than bike weight.

but in the end, you need water, no matter how you carry it


----------



## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> your mobile phone can be shielded much better than your jersey pocket and don´t mention about your back, there´s a lot between a rock and your back when using a camelbak.


To me the main function of carrying a backpack has been first for protection, hydration second. The only time I flipped over on a DH rocky course was saved by my backback. Nowadays though I use a water bottle + a light waterproof saddle bag for phone, wallet, car key...


----------



## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

culturesponge said:


> 0.6g 2x mod M5 x 10mm nylon water bottle bolts


where did you get the nylon water bottle bolts from please?


----------



## shadow7874 (Sep 10, 2010)

Although i cant truly feel the difference of a 32oz bottle of gatorade added to my frame, i would think a pack is the more efficient method of transport for some people. When i climb im always standing and rocking the bike so i can hammer my way up. The extra weight on my legs from the pack means more force and the loss of weight on the bike means its easier to rock the bike for more force. Plus i tend to fill my pack to the brim with ice so it isnt much of an inconvenience as it is a treat! for the first hour or two at least...

Also ive never had to stop and back track because my pack fell off on a bump.
I typically ride with a 2L pack and a 32oz gatorade on my bike for some tasty electrolytes.


----------



## madsedan (Aug 4, 2010)

When I was trying to decide if I wanted to be a "camelback guy" or a "bottle guy" I tried both, the camelback was too hot for me, I sweat an obscene amount and didn't like the restrictive feel it gave me. The bottles were a little cumbersome but manageable.
Both had strengths and weaknessed and I knew I needed to decide early and learn to use it, I was at a draw, but I applied some car handling logic to it, sounds retarded but its how I made my decision.
When we build up cars for track work or racing we take as much weight out as we can and when we reach a minimum weight we then look for ways to move the weight down in the car, closer to the ground, for lower center of gravity which provides better handling. Simple items like moving the battery lower in the chassis and removing the 75# sun roof cartridge for a piece of sheet metal make a substantial difference in set-up and handling efficiency of the race car.
I figured having the couple pounds of water 2' from the ground might be a little better in high speed turns and railing through single track than carrying it 5' off the ground on my shoulders.
I bought a bottle cage and never looked back, no pun intended.


----------



## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

OMG, this is ridiculous. True mountain bikers DO NOT use water bottles. Casual or light trail riders use bottles. I've been mtn biking for 19 years and I mean mtn. biking. Not some lame azz fire roads. I NEVER see anybody using water bottles. It's just not even a thought.


----------



## Guest (Aug 9, 2011)

loggerhead said:


> OMG, this is ridiculous. True mountain bikers DO NOT use water bottles


Somebody feels threatened.

True mountain bikers mountain biked before there was a camelback.


----------



## markw1970 (Oct 8, 2007)

loggerhead said:


> OMG, this is ridiculous. True mountain bikers DO NOT use water bottles. Casual or light trail riders use bottles. I've been mtn biking for 19 years and I mean mtn. biking. Not some lame azz fire roads. I NEVER see anybody using water bottles. It's just not even a thought.


That's a very definitive statement... I've used both bottles and backpack - but my preference is for bottles. I guess I'm a "true mountain biker" when I use a pack and a "casual or light trail rider" when I use a bottle. Thanks for defining that for me - I'll sleep well tonight. 

Enjoy the trails


----------



## Ansible (Jan 30, 2004)

loggerhead said:


> True mountain bikers DO NOT use water bottles. Casual or light trail riders use bottles.


Yeah, those world cup xc riders are just posers! Not true mountain bikers at all. :skep:

world cup xc - google Image search


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

i dunno man, last time i went up a steep obstacle, wheelied (accidently) and fell backwards, my camelback made a nice back cushion to my fall. i understand thats not the proper usage of a camelback, but worked well in that instance!


----------



## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

loggerhead said:


> OMG, this is ridiculous. True mountain bikers DO NOT use water bottles. Casual or light trail riders use bottles. I've been mtn biking for 19 years and I mean mtn. biking. Not some lame azz fire roads. I NEVER see anybody using water bottles. It's just not even a thought.


... your trollin' us right?? :skep:


----------



## shadow7874 (Sep 10, 2010)

madsedan said:


> When I was trying to decide if I wanted to be a "camelback guy" or a "bottle guy" I tried both, the camelback was too hot for me, I sweat an obscene amount and didn't like the restrictive feel it gave me. The bottles were a little cumbersome but manageable.
> Both had strengths and weaknessed and I knew I needed to decide early and learn to use it, I was at a draw, but I applied some car handling logic to it, sounds retarded but its how I made my decision.
> When we build up cars for track work or racing we take as much weight out as we can and when we reach a minimum weight we then look for ways to move the weight down in the car, closer to the ground, for lower center of gravity which provides better handling. Simple items like moving the battery lower in the chassis and removing the 75# sun roof cartridge for a piece of sheet metal make a substantial difference in set-up and handling efficiency of the race car.
> I figured having the couple pounds of water 2' from the ground might be a little better in high speed turns and railing through single track than carrying it 5' off the ground on my shoulders.
> I bought a bottle cage and never looked back, no pun intended.


I see where you are coming from but I dont think the same logic can apply. The point in lowering the center of gravity on a car is to keep all 4 wheels on the ground better through turns instead of rolling over. With your bike that is not the case.


----------



## jesse101 (May 23, 2011)

In races most use water bottles and toss them when empty...in recreational most use camel baks considering times and weight isn't taken into consideration. 

Me personally, if I'm on a short ride, water bottle, when I'm on a technical trail long or short I take my camel bak for all my tools parts and water. I don't see how it can matter what you use unless you are participating in a race, till then it's all preference.


----------



## Fiendbear (May 8, 2009)

Originally Posted by *loggerhead*:
_OMG, this is ridiculous. True mountain bikers DO NOT use water bottles. Casual or light trail riders use bottles. I've been mtn biking for 19 years and I mean mtn. biking. Not some lame azz fire roads. I NEVER see anybody using water bottles. It's just not even a thought._



COLINx86 said:


> ... your trollin' us right?? :skep:


If it sounds like a troll... On the other hand he *is* from New Jersey. And I hear the Paramus Mall has some really gnarly trails


----------



## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

If all that bashed me use bottles, then where do you bottle users keep tools?


----------



## schmiken (Jun 22, 2007)

I keep my tool, tyre levers, mech hanger, quick link, CO2 and inner tube in a small saddle bag. Carry anything else I need in jersey pockets. If it doesn't fit then I find I'm carrying too much or haven't prepped properly.


----------



## Guest (Aug 10, 2011)

loggerhead said:


> If all that bashed me use bottles, then where do you bottle users keep tools?


Really? You claim to know what true mountain bikers are and you have to ask that?

Riders were carrying tools on their bikes before any of us were born and they weren't using camelbaks.


----------



## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

craigsj said:


> Really? You claim to know what true mountain bikers are and you have to ask that?
> 
> Riders were carrying tools on their bikes before any of us were born and they weren't using camelbaks.


UHHHHHHHHHHH really? Cause I thought Hydration systems came out 200 years ago. It seems to me morons like yourself should not responding in the WW forum when I guess you put all of ur tools and a water bottle or two on ur bike. Oh wait, you don't ever flat or need to ever adjust anything because you are totally dialed in...Right!:yesnod:


----------



## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Isn't that what the pockets on jerseys are for?


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2011)

loggerhead said:


> UHHHHHHHHHHH really? Cause I thought Hydration systems came out 200 years ago. It seems to me morons like yourself should not responding in the WW forum when I guess you put all of ur tools and a water bottle or two on ur bike. Oh wait, you don't ever flat or need to ever adjust anything because you are totally dialed in...Right!:yesnod:


Look who's calling who a moron. :lol:

You complain about a couple of bottles and cages, at a 100g a piece, and a saddle bag at 40g when you strap on that pack that weighs a pound and a half? That may be a weight weenie mentality but it's ignorant. It's triple the weight, it's mounted high and on the body where it raises the CG and contributes to fatigue, and it accelerates overheating. When you stop competing on a scale with just a fraction of your ride maybe you'll understand. It's everything you ride with, and how you ride with it, that matters. You're the kind of guy that would brag about having the world's lightest pedal while ignoring that it requires the world's heaviest cleat---an idiot.

A backpack is good for rides where you can't carry enough any other way, otherwise it's an abomination. Look at road riding, where riders take their weight weenie-ism just as seriously, and you won't find them. Why? Because they were a stupid fad that offered promises that were lies. MTB'ers just take longer to realize it, especially those who think lipstick and candy makes for a real mountain biker's avatar.


----------



## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

craigsj said:


> Look who's calling who a moron. :lol:
> 
> You complain about a couple of bottles and cages, at a 100g a piece, and a saddle bag at 40g when you strap on that pack that weighs a pound and a half? That may be a weight weenie mentality but it's ignorant. It's triple the weight, it's mounted high and on the body where it raises the CG and contributes to fatigue, and it accelerates overheating. When you stop competing on a scale with just a fraction of your ride maybe you'll understand. It's everything you ride with, and how you ride with it, that matters. You're the kind of guy that would brag about having the world's lightest pedal while ignoring that it requires the world's heaviest cleat---an idiot.
> 
> A backpack is good for rides where you can't carry enough any other way, otherwise it's an abomination. Look at road riding, where riders take their weight weenie-ism just as seriously, and you won't find them. Why? Because they were a stupid fad that offered promises that were lies. MTB'ers just take longer to realize it, especially those who think lipstick and candy makes for a real mountain biker's avatar.


Could you stop sending me private messages to f-off.That would be nice. Okay, by camelback is not nearly a pound. Yes, high on the body, contributes to fatigue...I don't notice and if it does..it's overexaggerated. The part about you mentioning road riders...totally different element... you are probably more geared to road-riding since you ride an ibis mojo. See em' all the time and they are usually never scratched and always clean. In other words, the people who ride them are straight up puzzies on the trails. You being suckered into the advertising that camelbacks would help you ride better....that's just you being naive. Good luck with that. My avatar is geared for people like yourself. Come lick it biatch! :thumbsup:


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2011)

loggerhead said:


> Could you stop sending me private messages to f-off.


Resorting to outright lies now? I don't stoop to low-brow tactics like you do.



loggerhead said:


> Okay, by camelback is not nearly a pound.


And my bottles, cages, and bag aren't nearly 240g either.  Which camelbak is this BTW?



loggerhead said:


> Yes, high on the body, contributes to fatigue...I don't notice and if it does..it's overexaggerated.


Not as "overexaggerated" as the weighing down of a bike with bottles and tools.  Adding weight so you can carry your load in an inferior position is a losing approach in every way, regardless of how "exaggerated" the effect.



loggerhead said:


> The part about you mentioning road riders...totally different element... you are probably more geared to road-riding since you ride an ibis mojo.


Right, there's some beautiful logic right there. I haven't ridden a Mojo in years, but don't let that stop you... 



loggerhead said:


> See em' all the time and they are usually never scratched and always clean. In other words, the people who ride them are straight up puzzies on the trails. You being suckered into the advertising that camelbacks would help you ride better....that's just you being naive. Good luck with that. My avatar is geared for people like yourself. Come lick it biatch! :thumbsup:


More of the same moronic rambling from a stooge.

Camelbak claimed their products improved aerodynamics and kept the body cooler due to water contacting the back. Both were outright lies and you would know that if you were even around back then. Most cyclists have wised up. Maybe once you graduate from your pubescent fixations you might too.


----------



## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

loggerhead said:


> you are probably more geared to road-riding since you ride an ibis mojo. See em' all the time and they are usually never scratched and always clean. In other words, the people who ride them are straight up puzzies on the trails.


LOL yep Brian Lopes is a complete *****.


----------



## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

COLINx86 said:


> LOL yep Brian Lopes is a complete *****.


Advertising at it's best. Guess after this pic, you ran out and put a down payment on one as well. :thumbsup:


----------



## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Nope, Too rich for me.


----------



## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

craigsj said:


> Resorting to outright lies now? I don't stoop to low-brow tactics like you do.
> 
> And my bottles, cages, and bag aren't nearly 240g either.  Which camelbak is this BTW?
> 
> ...


Guess I better stop now. I'm put in my place after that exhausting read from a armchair warrior. Let's face it, I'd be a great spokesperson for Camelback. And you know it.


----------



## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

I came to MTB from CX, where water bottles are illegal. A true CX frames won't even have bosses for the bottles! The reasoning is that dropped bottles are a hazard, and the bottle interferes with shouldering the bike. Plus, races are sixty minutes, so either HTFU or takes a drink in the pits.

I now MTB, and I prefer a hydration bag. That being said, it is definitely hot and sweaty. If you ride smooth, XC race-ish stuff, you are not concerned about bottles flying off, shouldering the bike, or letting go of the bars to grab a drink. And since you're a weight weenie, what are you doing riding massive drops or bucking bronco rock gardens? So obviously, water bottles work just fine, especially for the WW type person.

That being said, I do like riding technical terrain and stunts. The flickability and hopability of the bike are improved by putting the water on the back. I ride SS and do my climbing standing up, but I really can't say with certainty whether I am better off for haing a bike I can rock more easily or worse off because my legs bear the weight of the water. I admit I don't know. Come to think of it, I do a LOT of my riding standing up, and definitely I am carrying the weight of the water with my legs, that makes sense.

But if I'm standing up, it may be because the bike is bucking. I think it's a win to have the light bike that flows over the terran while my center of gravity follows a straight line, but it's not like I've measured it.


----------



## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

COLINx86 said:


> Isn't that what the pockets on jerseys are for?


I felt that way, but now that I have taken quite a few falls, I am wary of anything hard and lumpy--like a multi-tool--in a pocket. If not in a pack with water and/ or padding to protect my delicate skin, under the saddle for me. JM2C, I see many experienced riders with tools in pockets.


----------



## hedgeboar (Jun 28, 2011)

computeruse200 said:


> Like the example of pushing a 50 lb barrel up a hill or carrying it on your back. Carrying on your back is easier.


Uh.... no! Rolling things is much easier than carrying them, hence the invention of the wheel. For the simple reason that if you push it, you only have to push with a force of sin(gradient)*(barrel weight), whereas if you carry it you obviously have to hold the whole weight.

Having a light bike is all about reducing/eliminating unnecessary weight. This includes weight on the bike and on the rider, there is no point in looking at them in isolation. Water is not unnecessary (except on short rides), and it makes no difference to the overall system weight whether it is on the bike or the rider (negelcting differences in weight between packs and bottles/cages). The difference therefore comes down to more subjective and difficult to quantify things, as have been mentioned above, like comfort, suspended/unsuspended mass, and so on.

To claim that carrying water on the bike goes against being a WW is just as ridiculous as building a super light bike while being, and intending to remain, obese yourself.


----------



## Guest (Aug 24, 2011)

computeruse200 said:


> Like the example of pushing a 50 lb barrel up a hill or carrying it on your back. Carrying on your back is easier.


Do construction workers carry bricks in a backpack to make pushing the wheelbarrow easier?


----------



## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

loggerhead said:


> OMG, this is ridiculous. True mountain bikers DO NOT use water bottles. Casual or light trail riders use bottles.


That's funny... I was thinking exactly the opposite. I ride with true mountain bikers and none of us use a camel backs unless we're going on casual 4+ hour rides.


----------



## misunderestimated (Apr 15, 2009)

^^ yer spot on brother.

Also, culturesponge; Deuter packs are best there is. I run em with Platypus bladders as I've given up on the leaky and expensive Camelbak bladders eons ago. I have a Race X Air that has a pocket you can store your helmet; not that you would ride that way...

I have one other point to make (LOL on a WW board)... I have a friend with a custom steel road bike had to retire the frame because it rusted out at the water bottle braze-ons. The builder tried twice to repair it but he finally upgraded to Ti, problem solved.


----------



## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

hedgeboar said:


> To claim that carrying water on the bike goes against being a WW is just as ridiculous as building a super light bike while being, and intending to remain, obese yourself.


I know a rider that's 110kg but buys top model super lights like scalpel ultimate, flash ultimate and so on. He's quite fast even for a newbie. Anyway, rider's weight depends on whether that weight is muscle or fat. It's hard to quantify...


----------



## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Sorry, didn't read the whole thread so this might have been answered already.

You can get nylon/plastic screws from mcmastercarr for pretty cheap. I think I got a bag of 100 for about $8 or something like that.

As far as btls vs bag...well, I found that I pretty much rode with my camelbak over the winter but when the wheather broke I slapped the bottle on the bike. I have an old Mule pack that pretty much sits flat on my back and gets pretty hot. Don't get me wrong, I have filled it with ice and it has really helped to keep me cool on really hot/long rides. The problem with it in the winter is that it blocks the vent flap in the back of my jackets thus causing me to get very hot or at least sweating more than normal since the air can't circulate. 

The reality is that I will need to buy a new pack here soon. I can say that I do enjoy not having the damn thing on my back though. At the same time, I realize that I actually drink more water when I am wearing my pack vs bottles. Just seems easier the slip the straw in your mouth and keep riding with both hands on the bars vs looking for a smooth section in the trail and riding w/ one hand briefly. 

Fortunately, alot of time and research has been put into packs over the years so I am sure that when I pick up a new one, I will probably use it alot more frequently simply due to the newer design.


----------



## Teton29er (Jul 31, 2011)

Does it have to be one or the other?

I like the idea of a bottle on the bike and a small camelback. That way I have back protection, room for clothes, and a liter or two of easy to access water. But also have a bottle which is easier to refill in the mountains and keep the weight down on the back. Often it also allows me to use a smaller camelback and save weight (I have several sizes of camel back)

Tools are in a small saddle pouch.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Tools in jersey pocket, bottle on bike. In the summer here i can drink as much as 1L in the first 20 mins, then its a 3L Camelbak. If you go riding in 35degC+ weather, the last thing on you mind is the weight of your water


----------



## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

ozzybmx said:


> Tools in jersey pocket, bottle on bike. In the summer here i can drink as much as 1L in the first 20 mins, then its a 3L Camelbak. If you go riding in 35degC+ weather, the last thing on you mind is the weight of your water


Pretty much all of my rides this summer have been 40*c or higher, I've noticed it's kind of a trade off. Your either really hot and uncomfortable, but have a lot of cold water. Or your less hot, a bit more comfortable, but have to drink warm water after that 1hr mark.


----------



## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

I've always been a water bottle guy. Easy to clean when using an energy drink. But I use a fanny pack because my Tallboy only has one convenient bottle cage. But I like my frames uncluttered.
I use this
REI Double Shot Waistpack at REI.com


----------



## newnan3 (Sep 30, 2010)

For racing Im beginning to prefer the camelbak.......I can pretty much drink whenever I want as i dont have to wait for a flatter section. 

For regular riding and training I prefer bottles.


----------



## unicrown junkie (Nov 12, 2009)

Bottles have always been my preference. But I always wear a pack when I go for long rides in the mtns. I carry lunch, extra tube and cold weather gear. Plus more water if needed. 

Pack has saved my butt literally many times flying over the bars, so I can really see why some riders here get attached to their Camelbaks.


----------



## eatsleeprunbike (Jan 24, 2007)

I've been using a camelbak for 10 years now, but recently switched to bottles for normal rides. I feel so much more free without my pack, and they are much easier to clean than packs. Packs still do have their place. I still use it on really long rides, and for races. I hate to stow down to mess around with my bottle while racing, or to forgo drinking until the one perfect spot on the course to drink. I don't want to drink on the uphills while I'm breathing hard, but don't want to pull my bottle out when I'm flying down hills at 30mph. I've found that there just are not any good places to drink from bottles without slowing down, but I can drink from my pack when I'm going downhill. I pass multiple people while they're messing with their bottles each race. As for which is more efficient, I haven't noticed a difference in bike handling or fatigue.


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Sometimes I am a water bottle guy and sometimes a Camelback guy...

As a matter of fact sometimes I use water bottle and wear my Camelback with no water reservoir, just to carry tools, spares, cell phone, some money and keys.


----------

