# Recovery and diet (Wheat and Dairy)



## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

up until two years ago, my riding and fitness was really suffering because I just seemed to not feel well, way too often. Not sick, but not well enough to workout. There were days when I would give it the old college try, only to turn around and coast back after the first hill climb. The big thing was, even when I was feeling well, it would take days between rides to recover. it was a cycle (no pun intended) that kept me for getting to optimal fitness. This had gone on for years. 

I spent a bunch of (my insurance companies) money seeing various doctors, to no avail. I saw an Immunologist/Allergist, got tested for many things. Negative for celiac disease. All these doctors had no answer. 

Then one nice summer day, two summers ago, when i was in a week long feel-like-crap funk, as i sat eating some tasty cherry yogurt to make myself feel better the light bulb went off. The more yogurt I ate the worse I felt. So I quit dairy that day, and what a difference. But it wasn't lactose. I had previously experimented with quitting dairy for short periods, looking for symptoms of lactose intolerance. it ended up being the milk protein, casein. The symptoms are much more subtle, and it takes a couple weeks to notice the difference. 

I had my annual physical about six months later. my whole
life, I had always had high cholesterol, and had a full rabto reaction when i tried statins. I assumed my blood numbers would go way down, what with giving up dairy and all, and with my limited red meat diet I had always adhered to. I was very surprised and disappointed to find out that even though I felt better, my blood numbers, like cholesterol and triglycerides had shown only very modest improvement. 

fast forward to last winter, after my wife and I had eaten a pasta dinner, I got my usual gassiness, which I had always assumed was from the tomato sauce. Another light bulb went off, and I thought, maybe it's the pasta, not the sauce. Even though I had tested negative for celiac disease, I decided to go wheat free. Read up on non gluten wheat sensitivity, and couldn't decide if it was a real thing. But apparently it is (read on)

Hardest thing I have ever done (love bread) , but i got used to it. Two things I noticed right away, instead of pooping 5 times a day, it became once. I realized the wheat had been giving me Irritable Bowel Syndrome type symptoms. next, the workouts. I started doing 10 or so a week, including track running, lap swimming and riding. wow, from not being able to recover from one ride, to two a days. 

Had my next physical, four months later. My bad cholesterol had fallen 75 points. yes, 75. My doctor didn't even charge me the co pay for the visit after he saw that. My total cholesterol had fallen from 260 to 185. My already normal blood glucose levels had fallen, as had my triglycerides. between the no wheat and the increased workouts, I lost about 15 pounds, which is a lot since I was only 174 to start. no doubt the weight loss contributed to the lower lab numbers,too. 

the reason I enthrall (bore) you readers with all this is, if there is anyone else there with similar issues, and like me you haven't been able to put it all together, just because the doctor says you are ok for gluten doesn't mean you are ok for wheat. and just because you can tolerate lactose, it doesn't mean you are ok for dairy. 

hope this helps someone!


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Not many of the same symptoms here, but I do have Ulcreative Colitis and have been battling it since 1994. I can tell you that it took me years to realize that wheat is a huge aggravator for me. I've now been wheat free (mostly, because sometimes it slips in where you least expect it) for about 18 months and my symptoms are mostly minor annoyances now, instead of full blown flares. 

For me, I won't claim it to be strictly Gluten, as I'm finding that all glutens are not created equal. If I stay off of wheat, I do very well. It may have something to do with wheat processing. Read up on that and see what you find.

Cheers to finding what helps you feel better, no matter what it turns out to be!


----------



## pitdaddy (Aug 6, 2013)

You did not bore me but rather encouraged me. I have been suffering from something for the past three months. Actually, it goes back further than that. Last summer I wasn't able to ride for a couple months. (Really made me mad because I planned to ride in Prescott Arizona while on vacation.)

Long story short, we have all these advancements in medicine and treating illnesses. But most doctors aren't willing to go a little deeper, further to find answers. They run a battery of tests, tell you the results are negative, and move on. Could be the insurance companies to blame. Maybe someone in healthcare could chime in.

Three weeks ago a doctor I have been seeing for one thing (hemorrhoids) suggested I stop all dairy products. His reasoning is there may be a combination of things causing me problems. Turns out I do feel better. And my body is slowly recovering from the damage. It has me thinking I could be lactose intolerant. So, what do I do? Come here and search to see if there are others in my shoes.

Sad part is I love milk & I love baked goods!


----------



## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

There is some supportive evidence linking dairy intake to arthritis flare-ups. Try eliminating milk, cheese, yogurt etc from the diet and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## J-Bone (Aug 26, 2008)

Great stuff and good thing your lights went off for the right thing.

I too had issues. Chest pain-bad burning, left arm, jaw shortness of breath-heart attack **** except no sweat. No diaphoresis period. So, instead of panicking I just went to my dr. She says "should have gone too ER." But after extensive blood work and more discussion she says "you have celiac." Ok, that day I kicked gluten. 4 days later symptoms were gone and have yet to return 9 months later. Except shortness of breath which she attributes to gut inflammation from dairy. So, dairy is out. Been getting better the last couple of weeks until sunday. Neighbor is from brazil and had a "Brazilian BBQ." Which I HIGHLY recommend by the way-done eat the day before. They have this cheese on a stick that they grill. I didn't want to be rude so I tried it. Was like potato chips I couldn't stop. That night all of the crap feelings came back. Grrrrr. I knew better. Alcohol plays a huge factor in gut inflammation as well. At 46 I am finally on my way to good blood chemistry to go along with my BP/HR and mountain biking fitness. 

But just researching gluten/celiac and its effect on the body and how it can be a precursor to other more severe auto immune disease or neurological diseases its just a wonder how folks still eat it. Even folks who don't have celiac or gluten intolerance are still effected by it.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

I quit wheat and dairy about 5 years ago, primarily for arthritis related inflammation and IBS-like symptoms. I cave once in a while and can tell right away. My hub thought I was making it all up until he watched my thumb joints turn red within fifteen minutes of eating a cinnamon roll with a beer ( gross, I know) on a ski day.

I have been experimenting with eating wheat from a local bakery that does a couple of things. 1. all locally, organically grown wheat, mainly european strains. 2 much of the bread is femented, not yeast, leavened.


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

OP, your post was fascinating, not boring. In San Diego, there is something of a Tibetan community, Lamas, Rinpoches, astrologers, shop tenders, and I happen to be friends with alll of them. Also, there's a Tibetan Medicine Doc, and the researchers at UC have been checking out how he looks at disease with a great deal of interest. He has entire lists of foods to eat and foods to avoid for the various types of "constitutions" that Tibetan Medicine recognizes. It's all based on what he finds in a patient. and a lot of that has to do with "Inflammation". So people go to see him, feeling like you described, and he always gives them the "Lists" and about half the time he gives them traditional Tibetan web formulas. Western research docs are fascinated by this, but you seem to have hit upon what causes inflammation in your system. Keep it up, and let us know how you are doing. Sounds good.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Mmmm, love my bread and dairy, sorry for your loss.


----------



## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

I do best with a well rounded diet that includes minimal eating out.

Count me in as a skeptic when it comes to fads or extremes. When I had some health issues and close attention from specialists and blood work, I watched a low fat well rounded diet aid getting good blood work results and be easy to sustain. I like to emphasize the sustainability part because I realized it personally and noticed the health professionals aware of that being important.


----------



## jk59845 (Aug 9, 2017)

Have you also considered adding supplements for anti-inflammatory support?


----------



## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

No I have been feeling so well I actually quit taking most supplements, except for Vitamin D (I tested off the charts low for “D” on my labs a number of years ago. I am now a finely tuned, no dairy or wheat, riding machine!


----------



## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I like bread. I've been going for bread that has less wheat, or no wheat. Options seem to be plentiful in my corner of the world. Oat, rye, others, various mixes.... Recently, I tried spelt bread and both me and the Mrs liked it. It was sold out at the store, when I looked for it yesterday.
Cost isn't too different either.


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

formica said:


> I have been experimenting with eating wheat from a local bakery that does a couple of things. 1. all locally, organically grown wheat, mainly European strains. 2 much of the bread is fermented, not yeast, leavened.


I've been wanting to experiment with this sort of approach, but am unsure how. I was thinking of approaching a local high-end baker about it and see if they're willing to try to find a European strain without the genetic modifications and not exposed to chemicals. I'd be willing to be a guinea pig and see how I react.

What I miss the most is Pizza. the current selections of gluten free crusts are just not good.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

See who is involved in the local-vore movement in your community. I am lucky in that I live in a wheat growing region with a huge locally-grown movement happening. This bakery has a straightline to a grower for the wheat they want. They also brew with organic locally grown hops and what not.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

If you have a true gluten related issue, no wheat products will be gluten free regardless of the strain or GMO association.


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> If you have a true gluten related issue, no wheat products will be gluten free regardless of the strain or GMO association.


Of course. The issue is trying to isolate gluten sensitivity versus something else associated with domestic wheat.

Personally, I do not find barley gluten to be an issue for me. That's why I want to try a different wheat.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Do you drink beer? Any issues there?


----------



## metalskool (Feb 6, 2019)

Another thing that helps clean your system up, or at least it helps me, is periodic intermittent fasting. It hard to juggle eating right and being healthy against enjoying life and eating/drinking things that bring pleasure. Just last night the wife & I had some beers around a backyard bonfire and I'm paying for that today. But in that moment- it was fun to listen to some tunes, eat unhealthy food, and have a few beers.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^ Do you drink beer? Any issues there?


Nope. Nothing makes my hand arthritis flare faster than a beer.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

In Scotland people seem to be unwilling to learn that there is a correlation between what you eat and drink and how healthy you are. People generally eat anything they like, which usually means lots of fried foot, meat and junk, then expect a pill from the doctor to fix any illness. Obesity, being unable to move much beyond fifty years of age and early death are accepted as normal. It's fecking unbelievable!

Apparently, most people grow intolerant of some foods as they get older. 

I get stomach cramps and explosive diarrhea if I eat dairy or cheddar cheese. Apples, more than a small amount of orange juice and a few other things trigger it as well. Wheat makes my throat feel like it's closing up. Tea is the fastest laxative known to man! None of this is diagnosed by a quack, I simply paid attention to what I ate and what happened next. My mother has IBS and takes all sorts of pills. I know it's what she eats but you can't tell her, she refuses to change her diet. She drinks tea every day, I haven't had tea in thirty years. She takes pills and still feels like crap, I take none and feel fine. You take your pick.


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^ Do you drink beer? Any issues there?


I drink IPAs, pretty much exclusively. So, no wheat.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Interesting that you can tolerate barley but not wheat. Barley does contain lower gluten levels than wheat, but perhaps your issue is not gluten itself. Your post (#2) is interesting.


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> Interesting that you can tolerate barley but not wheat. Barley does contain lower gluten levels than wheat, but perhaps your issue is not gluten itself. Your post (#2) is interesting.


My thoughts as well, but it's not an easy thing to test.


----------



## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

The whole point of my original post was that people who aren’t sensitive to gluten can be sensitive to wheat. Many, many people test negative for celiac sensitivity but are still adversely affected by consuming wheat. And there’s no lab test for it. So you test negative for celiac sensitivity and keep eating that delicious bread, and still feel like crap. That’s why it’s called Non Gluten Wheat Sensitivity. Its not about whether the wheat is organic, or which strain it is, or whether it’s hoed by hand and cut by scythe, or gathered using horses. It’s about another protein found in wheat. Some scientists think it’s a substance called ATIs. Paralysis by analysis邏. Which is ok, I guess, if you have the time....


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

JimmyAsheville said:


> The whole point of my original post was that people who aren't sensitive to gluten can be sensitive to wheat. Many, many people test negative for celiac sensitivity but are still adversely affected by consuming wheat. And there's no lab test for it. So you test negative for celiac sensitivity and keep eating that delicious bread, and still feel like crap. That's why it's called Non Gluten Wheat Sensitivity. Its not about whether the wheat is organic, or which strain it is, or whether it's hoed by hand and cut by scythe, or gathered using horses. It's about another protein found in wheat. Some scientists think it's a substance called ATIs. Paralysis by analysis邏. Which is ok, I guess, if you have the time....


Understood and you are likely correct.

My dilemma is more anecdotal than anything. I often hear of friends traveling to Europe and coming back and saying they ate this pizza in Italy or that bread in France and felt no issues at all, while they have issues with those things here at home. I failed to say that, I know.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

It does indeed sound like a wheat intolerance issue. I understand it is where your body could be producing an inflammatory response to wheat proteins present in your diet, not gluten proteins.


----------



## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

I have no objection or aversion at all to genetically modified foods. Now if someone could modify wheat to make it not hurt me I could have a big loaf of fresh baked bread. Of course my weight would skyrocket ...


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm not necessarily anti GMO. I think most modifications were probably done for the right reasons; i.e. storage stability, pest resistance, etc. I just think that there are likely ancillary, unintended consequences associated with the product and those are only now becoming known. Time will tell, I guess. In the meantime, I'm still better off keeping wheat products out of my diet.


----------



## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Some of the allergens in wheat are transformed by sourdough. My wife is allergic to whole wheat, but if it's in sourdough bread, no reaction at all.


----------



## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

cyclelicious said:


> There is some supportive evidence linking dairy intake to arthritis flare-ups. Try eliminating milk, cheese, yogurt etc from the diet and see if it makes a difference.


Cheese definitely makes my SI joint inflammation problem much worse so I avoid that unless it's on a slice of pizza that I really need to eat.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I would rather be gluten-free, than have to be dairy free. 

GF bread is better than dairy-free cheese.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Mmm, just had my post ride recovery snack: bagel, cream cheese, preserves.

It went great with my Latte 👍


----------



## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

Never mind.


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

JimmyAsheville said:


> Never mind.


Right!?!? Had to stifle, as well.


----------

