# The deadly sins of bike washing?



## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Last week there was some heated debate on the proper way to wash a mountain bike. This week I am going to turn the question around and ask:

*"What are the deadly sins of bicycle washing"?*

Give me your list!


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

-Pressure washers
-Steam cleaners
-Any pressurized water pointed at bearings


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Okay, thanks, those are the obvious ones.

1) Avoid pressure washing when ever possible.
2) Avoid steam cleaning
3) Shooting jets of water directly at busings, bearing, sealed suspension components.

Can you think of any more?


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Oh here is number 4.

4) Don’t use Armor All on tires. It makes them slippery


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## RBowles (Jun 1, 2010)

Whenever I wash my bike, I always remove the seatpost out and let it sit upside down for part of the day. My theory is that it will hopefully allow any water accumulated in the bottom bracket to drain out.


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## RBowles (Jun 1, 2010)

....and another thing..

I always blow my chain out with an air compressor and lube it immediately.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

sopwithcamel said:


> Oh here is number 4.
> 
> 4) Don't use Armor All on tires. It makes them slippery


Or your seat...:eekster:


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

cackalacky said:


> Or your seat...:eekster:


Gives me a great idea for revenge on some dude who has fallen quite a few levels in my book... :lol:

What the hell is "washing a bike," anyways?


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## Ricko (Jan 14, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> Oh here is number 4.
> 
> 4) Don't use Armor All on tires. It makes them slippery


..Don't use Armor All on your saddle...you'll end up on your back tire .


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

RBowles said:


> ....and another thing..
> 
> I always blow my chain out with an air compressor and lube it immediately.


A blow then a lube. :thumbsup:


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

No actually I don't think blowing off the chain with an air compressor is a good idea because you are going to push water into the chain and possibly blow out some of the remaining lubricant that was still there. Not to mention there is always a chance of contaminating the disc brakes rotors and pads. 

I think your better to just spin the chain slowly and towel dry. 

So updating the list

1) Avoid pressure washing when ever possible.
2) Avoid steam cleaning
3) Shooting jets of water directly at busings, bearing, sealed suspension components.
4) Don’t use Armor All on tires as it makes them slippery.
5) Don't Armor All your saddle or you may land on your head. (With some exceptions to this rule)
6) Don't blow dry the bike with compressed air, towel dry only.
7)


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## racerick (Mar 15, 2009)

as for the chain, i remove it after hosing it down and soak/scrub it in finishline orange degreaser

then rinse the degreaser off with water than blow dry to a bone dry state

then lube judiciously, wipe excess lube _then_ re mount the chain

none of the above mentioned chemicals come in contact with the brakes or other sensitive parts

that's my chain maintenance 101 class for today

the cassette and crank get the same treatment, if conditions warrant


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Hey racerick, you might find this interesting.

http://www.kmcchain.com/index.php?ln=en&fn=service


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## manabiker (Jul 18, 2010)

Don't ride your bike in the rain, or mud and you won't have to wash it, wash when dirty, simple as that... use common sense.. oh therein lies the problem, there is too much in the gray area (common sense) its not in black, and white, it takes common sense to wash a bike. Its just a bike afterall !!!!


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

erik1245 said:


> What the hell is "washing a bike," anyways?


Its called an inspection. Check and correct mechs, inspect frame.


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## canonshooter (May 10, 2009)

I never wash my bikes... When its time I pull the dirty parts off and clean them seperately. Or I just wipe them off with a damp cloth... Fug it...bikes are made to be ridden!


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## racerick (Mar 15, 2009)

sopwithcamel said:


> Hey racerick, you might find this interesting.
> 
> http://www.kmcchain.com/index.php?ln=en&fn=service


it says to never use solvents;

first of all; the finish line orange de greaser is organic
second; after i completely de grease my chain, while its hanging, i lube it _heavily_ , then wipe the excess with a rag.

its ironic that they say to never use a solvent to clean the chain. do they _actually_ expect people to install a new chain and ride with all that heavy, sticky grease, applied by the factory. that, in of itself would destroy the chain, since such an abundance of dirt would get collected and act as a grinding wheel, not only to the chain, but to cogs and rings also.

ive been using this process with motorcycle chains for approx 35 years and with bicycle chains for 20. i know we've all heard the "ive been doing this for x number of years" and could mean so and so has been wrong for a long time.... friends who know me, know im the doctor of cleaning bikes 

actually, im one of those who avoids riding in bad conditions since it trashes sensitive components on bicycles

thanks for the article, it made for interesting reading


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

The good thing about using soap vs solvents, is that after it dries, its a lubricant. 

I use car wash soap. Its gentle on the finish. 

I wash my bike after playing in the muda few times. When its dry, I dont even touch it.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

WD-40 on bearing seals etc....

Use a rag to protect from overspray if neccesary.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Dont use car wash soap with wax in it. It will ruin your brakes.

I mist my bike with the hose to get it wet then dunk a straw broom in a bucket of soapy water (a little dish detergent) & go over it with that then rinse. Works great, gets in all the tight areas & makes quick work of it. Dry off & lube the chain & Im done.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

dont wash... use a paint brush or something to wipe the dirt off.


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## Quicksilver77 (Jun 13, 2010)

I blow the dust off my bikes with compressed air, then wipe them down with a damp cloth. I never ride in the rain, mud, or wash them off with water.


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## Cobretti (May 23, 2005)

If you wash your bike and leave it out for a bit to dry, don't forget about it. I did once. Lucky for me it was still there in the a.m. Whew, that was close!


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

racerick said:


> it says to never use solvents;
> 
> first of all; the finish line orange de greaser is organic
> second; after i completely de grease my chain, while its hanging, i lube it _heavily_ , then wipe the excess with a rag.
> ...


Hey racerick,

I checked the SRAM tech document too and it said:



> 3.0 Maintenance / care
> • Regular lubrication will extend the chain's service life. Apply oil to the chain links rollers and allow to work in.
> • Clean dirty chains before oiling. Do not use any grease-dissolving or acidic agents. Cleaning agent must be rinsed off after a few minutes
> with water. Apply oil after chain is completely dried.


So that sort leaves me scratching my head as to what exactly were suppose to clean our chains with???


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

jeffw-13 said:


> Dont use car wash soap with wax in it. It will ruin your brakes.


Says who? I've been doing this for years and never had a problem. The wax in the soap won't get absorbed into the brake pads (disc or canti) and it provides protection to a lot of other parts of the bike.



sopwithcamel said:


> No actually I don't think blowing off the chain with an air compressor is a good idea because you are going to push water into the chain and possibly blow out some of the remaining lubricant that was still there.


Your fears don't actually happen. I use a compressor all the time to dry off the chain. Applying chain lube afterward will displace any remaining water. I've never had problems with lack of lube or rust.

Seems like people here think too hard about this situation. As long as you're not shooting water into sealed areas (like bearings) you'll be fine. Solvents on chains don't harm the chain - they just remove the grease in the pin and roller. This grease goes away anyways, the more you use your bike and the more you lube your chain. Grease does not last forever in a chain, as it's not sealed like most bearings.

I use Dumonde Tech that requires a very clean chain to work properly. This means cleaning it while on the bike, throwing it in a nalgene full of paint thinner, shaking until the chain sparkles, and then drying with a towel and compressed air.

For quick lubes, I just wipe my chain off with a shop towel and reapply the chain lube. The new stuff will help dissolve any old gunk, so when I go to wipe the chain again, it cleans itself.


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## Bird (Mar 26, 2004)

I think you can over wash your bike.
I wash mine maybe twice a year but never ride in extreme muddy conditions.

When i do wash my bike i bounce it a few times then it goes in a small room with a dehumidifier then gets oiled/greased.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

don't wash your bike it's supposed to be dirty

and don't armor all your brakes...


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## GFAthens (Sep 10, 2009)

I virtually never wash or inspect my bike. Flame on if you'd like. It's just not a part of my routine and I generally don't feel the need for it. 

I may one day eat my words when I have a huge frame failure or something, but for now, I pay attention to bike parts that are giving me trouble.


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## Aaron D (Dec 14, 2005)

dundundata said:


> don't wash your bike it's supposed to be dirty
> 
> .


your kinda dumb...


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## racerick (Mar 15, 2009)

i dont understand how manufactures expect users to clean the heavy grease/lube they package their chains with, since nothing other than some sort of solvent will work

other than that, if you clean your chain regularly with a moist rag, thus not allowing crud to build up, chains are easy to clean w/o solvent

i only use the citrus degreaser to clean the packaging grease

also, i believe manufacturers say not to use solvent, because they believe the user wont properly rinse the solvent, which, in that case would cause the lube to displace and not work as intended


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## Raybum (Apr 16, 2009)

I wash mine after EVERY ride...however, all I do is turn the hose on at a rate equal to what I could pee....I never aim it at seals or at the seatpost. Frame is Ti, so no worries about rust there. I then wipe it down with a damp rag, and lastly use the rag to wipe the chain down and re-lube.
It's probably overkill, but in AZ, after a long ride, it get's dusty as h*ll.


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## steezy.steve23 (Feb 15, 2011)

As someone who rides in the mud a lot, i find that washing my bike is pretty necessary. I hose it off then use a bucket of warm water with simple green and a brush.This is both organic and safe for my bike.

Back to the list, 7) WD-40 should never touch a bike


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

steezy.steve23 said:


> As someone who rides in the mud a lot, i find that washing my bike is pretty necessary. I hose it off then use a bucket of warm water with simple green and a brush.This is both organic and safe for my bike.
> 
> Back to the list, 7) WD-40 should never touch a bike


Who cares if it's organic? It's not like everything else on your bike is organic. How do you think tires are made?

And WD-40 works great as a degreaser in a pinch, or for removing sap, stickers, and other gooey stuff without damaging paint.

This thread makes me LOL.


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## steezy.steve23 (Feb 15, 2011)

I don't care if my parts are organic, however i do care that the cleaner is since it goes directly into the rivers that i swim, fish, and raft on. I don't know what your water supply is like, but i'd like to do my best to keep mine unpolluted.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Number One: Not doing it.*

Cleaning a bike gives you a chance to see things up close and more frequently so you know what is going on. It can reveal details and early signs of damage. It also removes debris and grit from moving parts reducing abrasion. A clean bike takes lubrication better as the lube goes where it needs to be and not into the dirt.

There is the school of thought that believes the bike is built to take punishment, and they are. However, they operate better and components last longer if you can keep an eye on what shape they are in.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

steezy.steve23 said:


> I don't care if my parts are organic, however i do care that the cleaner is since it goes directly into the rivers that i swim, fish, and raft on. I don't know what your water supply is like, but i'd like to do my best to keep mine unpolluted.


Right, because the lube you use on your bike is eco-friendly too? So when you wash the old lube off the bike, it's safe for the environment? What happens when your bike parts wear out? Do you recycle them, or do they end up in a landfill? What do you think a bike shop does with its waste? How about everything that gets put in/on your car that comes off when it's washed?

Just pointing out that the environmental impact of you using Simple Green is insignificant when compared to everything else. Including the waste/carbon/chemicals created in the manufacturing process of your bike.

Also, you should know that Simple Green may not be as eco-friendly as you are led to believe. Ethelyne glycol butyl ether (EGBE or butoxyethanol) an ingredient in Simple Green, has been shown to be toxic to animals in lab testing, and causes reproductive problems including birth defects.

But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. :thumbsup:


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Wow this went in a different direction than I thought, but I agree with jtmartino  
Although I'm keeping my Simple Green 

I kinda figured he'd get blasted for this little nugget:


steezy.steve23 said:


> As someone who rides in the mud a lot...


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Here is my list of deadly sins of bike washing:

*1. Not doing it.*

Not washing your bike is like burning your money. Washing helps prolong the life of your components, and serves double-duty as a safety check. Kudos to Berkeley Mike for pointing this out.

*2. Using a pressure washer*

There's no reason to use high-pressure water, unless you want to damage your bearings or fork. A big brush and a bucket of soap will do the work for you, and water is just there to rinse everything off. I use a brush made for cleaning car tires that was $2 at Target.

*3. Drying the bike improperly*

One of the most important things to do after washing your bike is to properly dry it, so the frame and/or parts don't rust. Some people use an air compressor, others use a heater, and some people just use towels. I've found that bouncing the bike a few times on the pavement gets rid of most of the water, then I immediately ride the bike around the neighborhood times to give it a quick air dry. Lastly, I use an air compressor and towels to catch anything I may have missed.

*4. Spending money on brand-name bike cleaning supplies*

There's no reason to waste your money on brand name bike cleaning supplies. Cheap soap and brushes work just as well as the expensive stuff. I use cheap car wash soap to clean the bike initially (and no, it doesn't hurt the brake pads) and a cheap citrus degreaser from Home Depot that I dilute with water and keep in a spray bottle. The big car tire brush from target and old toothbrushes do the rest of the work - grout brushes work well too.

*5. Ignoring cables and housing*

Cables and housing get dirty. And when you wash your bike they'll often get wet. If you don't clean and dry them appropriately, you'll end up with worn out or rusted parts that need replacing more often. Even if you use a lubricant on them, you will still need to wipe them down with a rag to get rid of the dirt particles that cause premature wear.

That's about it from me. Hope this helps.


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## ProjectDan35 (Jul 19, 2010)

Quicksilver77 said:



> I blow the dust off my bikes with compressed air, then wipe them down with a damp cloth. I never ride in the rain, mud, or wash them off with water.


Huh. I do the same exact thing............:thumbsup:


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## wheeliejunkie (Mar 17, 2011)

Engine degreaser works good but not so good on paint and once you get it on your disk brakes it takes some work to get them to grab good again. After a few washes with rubbing alcohol and a rag they started to work fine again. What works great is stainless steel polish. I work in the restaurant biz and gave my bike a spray to test it out. Gives it a really nice shine.


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## desrcr (Feb 8, 2004)

You guys can over think anything.


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## BigRuckus (Jun 5, 2010)

Why clean the chain at all? According to Mountain Bike Action you need to replace the chain every few months. Just by a new one and throw the dirty one away.


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## racerick (Mar 15, 2009)

BigRuckus said:


> Why clean the chain at all? According to Mountain Bike Action you need to replace the chain every few months. Just by a new one and throw the dirty one away.


yeah if you believe that, then according to mba, your stem wears out too and bars and everything else

what a bunch of ka ka that is

why bother to wipe your a*s since you shower anyway < not directed to anybody in particular, just making fun of that stupid article in mba


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I wash my bike with a water-blaster, 17,000psi is great at removing dirt and grime. Hot water blasters are fantastic for cleaning chains and clusters.

I've been doing this for about 20 years and never had a problem caused by it. A water blaster is like a hammer, it's only as destructive as the person using it.


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## Straz85 (Mar 20, 2009)

I just use a damp cloth for most parts, and I use Park Tools citrus degreaser in a Park Tools chain cleaner for the chain and a Park Tools cleaning brush for the cassette/cog (SS)/chain rings, usually just with warm water, I'll use a little citrus degreaser if it's really dirty. I will use a hose for the tires/wheels and a few other bearing-less areas if it's really dirty, that's rare though.



Aaron D said:


> your kinda dumb...


Ironic when misspelled. Try this:

"You're kind of dumb"


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

NEVER use hard core cleaners like oven cleaner. Oven cleaner takes anno right off. Other things like that can strip paint too, especially if you have a weakness (scratch or something) in the paint.


Of course, if you want to remove anno, oven cleaner works wonders.


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## K-OS (Nov 9, 2010)

Never use WD40 on a bike you care about... it's more of a solvent than a lubricant.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Why-WD40-Should-Never-Be-Used-on-Your-Bike-Chain/


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

K-OS said:


> Never use WD40 on a bike you care about... it's more of a solvent than a lubricant.
> 
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Why-WD40-Should-Never-Be-Used-on-Your-Bike-Chain/


Unless of course you're using it as a solvent.:thumbsup:


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Thanks for all the great tips people, keep them coming. 

So updating the list

1) Avoid pressure washing when ever possible.
2) Avoid steam cleaning
3) Shooting high pressure water directly at bushings, bearing, sealed suspension components.
4) Don’t use Armor All on tires as it makes them slippery.
5) Avoid using Armor All on your saddle or you may land on your head. (One exception to this rule is using it sparingly on the edges of the saddle to reduce saddle sores.)
6) Don't dry your bike with compressed air, towel dry only.
7) WD-40 should never touch a bike.
8) Ignoring routine cleaning, lubrication and maintenance.
9) Not checking for loose bolts after cleaning.
10) Ignoring bike squeaks and creaks. 
11) Over torquing bolts.
11) Not checking for frame cracks. 
12) Not lubricating cables and housing.
13) Forgetting to clean disc brakes with disc brake cleaner after lubricating the rest of your bike.
14) For getting to lubricate your chain after cleaning.
15) For getting to wipe the chain after lubricating it with chan lube.
16) For getting to wax your frame with Lemon Pledge after cleaning.
17) Forgetting to occasionally lubricate the seat post.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Do I have to do everything?*

*6) Don't dry your bike with compressed air, towel dry only.*
Compressed air is extremely useful for driving water out of chains. pivot points in derailleurs and brakes, dirt from calipers, pivots in levers, and removing water from the inside of housings.

*7) WD-40 should never touch a bike.*
WD-40 is an extremely useful tool for driving water out of hard-to-reach places: chains, pivots, and the like. If you cannot dry your chain it will rust. If you don't have a compressor to dry your chain then after washing you spray it with WD-40. It will drive the water out of your chain. In a few hours it is bone dry and clean and you can relube.


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## MrEconomics (Aug 23, 2004)

It's funny hearing others saying that the bike is suppose to be dirty. I found a crack in my carbon frame under the BB while washing my bike. I never would have seen it if I wasn't cleaning it. Spesh sent me a brand new frame. Washing sure paid off.


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## K-OS (Nov 9, 2010)

WD-40.... sure use it to displace water, as the WD stands for water displacement, but it also displaces any lubricant inside the chain, which as well is why the manufacturers say you shouldn't soak your chain in solvent. WD is 50% solvent.

I'll stick to using it for rusty bolts, if my chain gets so bad I'd need to resort to WD... I'll buy a new one. 

But hey that's just me... you guys feel free to do whatever you like


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## K-OS (Nov 9, 2010)

Guppie58 said:


> It's funny hearing others saying that the bike is suppose to be dirty. I found a crack in my carbon frame under the BB while washing my bike. I never would have seen it if I wasn't cleaning it. Spesh sent me a brand new frame. Washing sure paid off.


OUCH... how old was your frame ?? and how long did it take to get a new one from them ?


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

K-OS said:


> WD-40.... sure use it to displace water, as the WD stands for water displacement, but it also displaces any lubricant inside the chain, which as well is why the manufacturers say you shouldn't soak your chain in solvent. WD is 50% solvent.


Where do you get the information that it drives out lubrication from the chain? Before I got a compressor I did this for about 15 years. Further if you recall I said that the final step was to re-lube in any case. Even the heaviest lubes penetrate back into the rollers and pins.


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## K-OS (Nov 9, 2010)

Wow, I would never use the same chain for 15 years... lol 

I thought it was common sense that a solvent removes grease / lubricant everything....

But here it is from the chain manufacturer (KMC) website:

Avoid the use of solvents, not only are these bad for the environment, they remove lubricant from the chain's bearing.


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## Aaron D (Dec 14, 2005)

Straz85 said:


> Ironic when misspelled. Try this:
> 
> "You're kind of dumb"


 ....

yup your just a smarty...

maybe I shoulda just gone with "yer kinda dumb"

you might have understood...


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Lets not beat WD-40 to death again as it has been beaten to death way to many times on this fourm already. Well just give it the old Will Rogers treatment.



> _"There are three kinds of men. The ones that learn by readin'. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."
> 
> - Will Rogers_


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

K-OS said:


> I thought it was common sense that a solvent removes grease / lubricant everything....
> 
> But here it is from the chain manufacturer (KMC) website:
> 
> Avoid the use of solvents, not only are these bad for the environment, they remove lubricant from the chain's bearing.


Well if KMC says it it must be true? Nope. The chains we use are made of pins, rollers, and plates. Some chains have tubes connecting the plates which are called bushings. Do you see the word "bearing" in there? The plates pivot on the pins, sometimes bushings, and the rollers rotate on the pins and contact the various sprockets and chainrings. Lubrication is needed for the rollers and where the pivots are contacted by the plates. There is nothing microscopic about the tolerances and lube easily pentrates into all areas which need it.

Many of your lubes have a lighter carrier, some of which are actually solvents, just as does WD-40. Some smell like kerosene. In many lubes these carrieres disappear leaving lubricating materials behind. If you have any doubts after using WD-40 to keep your chain from rusting, just lube when dry. What does KMC say about rusty chains?

This isn't rocket science guys. The "common sense" carries no weight with me as it suggests only an assumption by one person.

The one about solvents, "not only are these bad for the environment" is simply misguided. How about orange solvents? Besides, this is like saying you need to eat some companies blueberry juice because they have antioxidents. That is all marketing and smarminess. We've been eating this fruit for years even though we didn't know about anti-oxidants.Someone reads it and it is suddenly the truth? Lord save me.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

If you are going to use WD-40 for anything bike or not, don't. Get PB Blaster instead, it's like WD on steroids. Way better.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

As previously mentioned SRAM also recommends against using grease-dissolving or acidic agents.



> 3.0 Maintenance / care
> • Regular lubrication will extend the chain's service life. Apply oil to the chain links rollers and allow to work in.
> • Clean dirty chains before oiling. Do not use any grease-dissolving or acidic agents. Cleaning agent must be rinsed off after a few minutes
> with water. Apply oil after chain is completely dried.


And actually it is rocket science as WD-40 was developed by Norm Larsen of the Rocket Chemical Company in 1953. It was first used by Convair to protect the outer skin of the Atlas missile from rust and corrosion.

Although WD-40 contains 15% light oil, it isn't really an oil suitable for the high bearing stresses that a bicyle chain sees. Bearing stress is the tendency of a bolt or rivet to enlarge its hole.


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## jeffgre_6163 (Jan 23, 2010)

Slightly off topic I know...
But to those that claim they never or rarely clean their bikes, 
Where is the pride in your ride?
Setting aside the debate in regard to the pros and cons of cleaning, A lot of riders spend a considerable chunk of change on their bike, [in my case in well in excess of $4000.00] 
I will be buggered if I am going to treat it like a pair of dirty old sneakers used for gardening and just dump it in the corner covered in crud after a good ride.

I love my bike and consider myself fortunate that I am be able to afford a top quality ride

I would be ashamed to turn up the a group ride with my bike that has clearly not been cleaned for weeks or months when a lot of the guys would give their left testicle for it,They would think I was an idiot and simply had money to burn.

Regular cleaning = close inspection and hence ongoing preventative maintenance which is as good a reason to clean as any.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> As previously mentioned SRAM also recommends against using grease-dissolving or acidic agents..


This from the worst chain tested by Wipperman:






Read Sheldon Brown on this subject. He is far more interesting and far less pedantic:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

By the way, how do you clean _your_ chain? How do _you_ treat it when it is wet?



sopwithcamel said:


> And actually it is rocket science as WD-40 was developed by Norm Larsen of the Rocket Chemical Company in 1953. It was first used by Convair to protect the outer skin of the Atlas missile from rust and corrosion./QUOTE]
> 
> There is more to the world than Googling to Wikiepedia. Their description has a different focus than my understanding. The story as I undrerstood it many years ago, before the Internet, took place in San Diego and was the 40th water displacement formula tried in an attempt, not to protect a skin, but drive out moisture which arrived every night, from sensitive parts.
> 
> ...


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> I have not suggested that WD-40 is a lubicant for our purposes. It is a water displacer which has perfect application for use on bicycles when applied as a system of cleaning, drying, and lubrication.
> 
> There is more to cycling than reading some company's online info or taking Wikipedia as the last word.


Berkeley Mike, I think some people here, including the OP, are not reading correctly.

Nobody said to use WD-40 as a bike lube. Anyone who thinks that was recommended by Berkeley Mike or myself is wrong. And anyone who's afraid of using solvents on their chain, because the chain company said not to, is misinformed.

Chains are not sealed by any means, especially when compared to cartridge bearings. The grease that's in there from the factory will be displaced over time anyways by the action of riding, cleaning, and lubing the chain. As BM stated, the bike lube you use will get in-between every single moving part on your chain and do its job.

But obviously people don't know what happens when bike chain lube comes in contact with grease. I guess it's not common knowledge that many lubes have carrier solvents in them already, which will dissolve the grease too. So, if a chain company says not to use solvents on a chain, then I guess they recommend you don't use chain lube too. Have fun with that!


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## K-OS (Nov 9, 2010)

Berkeley Mike said:


> There is more to cycling than reading some company's online info or taking Wikipedia as the last word.


There's also more to it than sitting on here an bashing other Mtb'ers and calling them dumb. Do you do that on the trail too as you pass riders ?? Hey you're dumb !! lol

My post did end with..... "But hey that's just me... you guys feel free to do whatever you like "

So y'all can stop whining and get off the WD topic... Some of us don't use it... a couple of you apparently love it... who cares, let's be big boys and end it.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

K-OS said:


> There's also more to it than sitting on here an bashing other Mtb'ers and calling them dumb. Do you do that on the trail too as you pass riders ?? Hey you're dumb !! lol
> 
> My post did end with..... "But hey that's just me... you guys feel free to do whatever you like "
> 
> So y'all can stop whining and get off the WD topic... Some of us don't use it... a couple of you apparently love it... who cares, let's be big boys and end it.


It should be noted that Chris King recommends using WD-40 or another light "solvent-based lubricant" to flush bearings during a rebuild, including their headset bearings and the Ring-drive system in their rear hubs.

So you can assume it works fine for chains, too. Wash the chain, hit it with WD-40, spray it out with compressed air, and follow-up with a chain lube. Pretty straightforward.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

K-OS said:


> There's also more to it than sitting on here an bashing other Mtb'ers and calling them dumb. Do you do that on the trail too as you pass riders ?? Hey you're dumb !! lol
> 
> My post did end with..... "But hey that's just me... you guys feel free to do whatever you like "
> 
> So y'all can stop whining and get off the WD topic... Some of us don't use it... a couple of you apparently love it... who cares, let's be big boys and end it.


I don't mind disagreeing and it has nothing to do with whether I *like* WD-40 pr not. I'm just not much on misinformation or distortion of what I said. Jmartino got it. It just isn't that tough. If you distort what I write you are going to get a bit of 'tude for sure.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

If guys really want to use WD-40 go ahead no on is going to stop you. We might cringe a little but we aren't going to stop you. But I think the real point to be made here is that there are a lot better solvents, detergents and lubircants then WD-40, so why bother with it all? Espically when you factor in the expensive cost of replacing chains, cassettes and chain rings. You really want to be using the best products you can to get the maximum life out your drive train.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Why would you cringe, when you were the one asking for advice? As if you know better? You were the one who said WD-40 and other solvents shouldn't be used, which just shows your lack of understanding.

WD-40 is cheaper than a lot of bike-specific cleaners, and it works well for a lot of different things. In a pinch, it works really well for cleaning dirty, greasy parts, especially if you don't have other solvents lying around. Personally, I use a Nalgene full of paint thinner when I really want to clean my chains. Anyone who says WD-40 should never be used on a bike is an idiot, unless they're talking about using it as a lube.

Your list, in post #49, is full of absolutes that don't even make sense (like having to use Lemon Pledge...wtf?) The only post in my list that can be argued is #2 using a pressure washer, and that's because I'd assume the people who are afraid of WD-40 and solvents on their chain are the same kind of people who would use the pressure washer incorrectly.

But hey, don't take my word for it. I just keep a clean, perfectly functioning drivetrain on all my bikes, which includes swapping chains to prolong chainring/cassette life. Something I need to do, especially on my Ti cassettes.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> But I think the real point to be made here is that there are a lot better solvents, detergents and lubircants then WD-40, so why bother with it all? Espically when you factor in the expensive cost of replacing chains, cassettes and chain rings. You really want to be using the best products you can to get the maximum life out your drive train.


What part of this are you missing? It helps to dry your chain to keep it from rusting. What better solvents do you use to dry a wet chain?

I have maintained fleets of racing bikes with this method for 11 years with people who do not have compressors to drive water out of wet chains. When running a fleet costs are multiplied so "we" pay attention to stuff like this.

"We might cringe." Who's your "we"?


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

First of all, I cringe because I have heard the awful grinding noise a chain treated with WD-40 makes. So yes using WD-40 as a chain lubricant is a bad thing. But I also wouldn't recommend using WD-40 as a chain cleaner or penetrating oil ethier. There are way better products for that. 

The whole point of this fourm is to crowd source the best cleaning practices and trying to list the most common mistakes. Also, admittedly there are exceptions to every rule. For instanace the best way to clean off cow **** of your tires is with a high pressure washer, espically if it has time to dry on. So there are really no bad tools just bad applications.

Thirdly, Lemon Pledge contains a wax with 15% silcon oil that prevents dirt from sticking to your frame and also helps lubricate your cables. It also makes your frame very shinny, slippery, and great smelling! Give it a try, personally I find it the best part of the whole cleaning process.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Mike, the best way I found to clean a chain is with a chain cleaning machine and cleaning solution such as Bio-Cycle from Mountain Equipment Co-op.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302693915&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442618968

Admittedly it's not as good a solvent as citric acid based solution but then again were trying to avoid acid based solutions. So once I run my chain through with the cleaning solution I will flush it with water. I will then wipe the chain as dry as possible using a clean rag. BTW old worn out socks make great rags for bike cleaning. I will let air dry for a few minutes why I check other stuff on the bike and then I will come back and lubricate the chain link by link. If you wanted to speed up the drying process you could use an alcohol based product to help evaporate the water and dry the chain. Some people like to use compressed air here but I don't as I try avoiding disc brake contamination at all costs.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

This thread was doomed from the start.:madman:


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Yes it was doomed from the start! But since your here and considering your engineering back ground, what tips do you have for me?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> Yes it was doomed from the start! But since your here and considering your engineering back ground, what tips do you have for me?


I will limit my input to the gritty feeling chain.
That gritty feel has nothing to do with the WD40, it's actual grit inside your chain.

I take a hands-off attitude to bike chain maintenance, I lube it when it's noisey, clean it (with a water blaster) when it's very dirty and run it until it's so worn it skips.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

You seem so anti-WD we still don't get a very good picture of exactly how you take care of your chain day-to-day. The chain cleaning machine is not usually a day-to-day thing. I use mine every few weeks at most. A bit more often in really crappy conditions.

I'll give it one more try. *WD-40 is a tool to use for a particular thing. Not lube, not cleaning, but displacing water so the chain dries without rusting*. That part completed one can use one's favorite lube.

Okay, Sop, do you clean your chain after every muddy/dirty ride? Do you clean it as often as you clean-off your bike, say, after a dirty or muddy ride? Do you clean it as often as you thoroughly clean your bike? These are 3 different frequencies.

Do you clean your chain with the cleaning machine and orange solvent each time?

Do you just leave it wet the time when you don't use the machine? Does that work for you? Does your chain rust or do you just lubricate a wet chain?

I know I don't use the machine and orange solvent each time but I don't just leave chain wet and walk away. You have to get the water off of it and out of it. WD-40 or compressed air does wonders. Lube after with your favorite lubricant.

When you _do_ use the orange solvent do you just leave it in? How does that work with your solvent rule? Do you just let it dry or do you lube it wet with the orange solvent in it?

I rinse the solvent off with water which works really well and provides and additional flushing. Simple Green's washes off with water very well too. Either way, solvent or water cleaning, I end up with wet chain and I remove water from the chain.

Like I said, I maintain fleets of drive trains. We clean our bikes far more than most people; you must if you race if only to keep on top of what is going on with your bike. We get very good mileage out of our stuff. We also don't put up with noisy drivetrains and harass each other with merciless good humored chiding if they aren't quiet.

I'm still waiting to hear about your experience.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

On day to day chain cleaning I use a rag around chain lower and pedal backwards several rotations, re-lube with Tri-Flow.

During wet washing as a final step I will perform the above with a soap filled rag, then using compressed air place the nozzle tip in one spot on chain and reverse pedal several rotations, re-lube with Tri-Flow.

If chain is severely gritty, I will use WD or similar (solvent/oil combination) to break down the dirt. Rag reverse pedal once again, then compressed air thoroughly, re-lube with Tri-Flow.

Im sure I will get some flak for this but on occasion I have used carb cleaner to get a severely gritty chain cleaned, thoroughly blown out with compressed air and thoroughly re-lubed with Tri-Flow, works great. Just be sure to RE-LUBE thoroughly.

Whats a noisy drive train?


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Yes, I am really anti WD-40.

After cleaning my chain I wipe it dry immediately, so that it has no chance to rust. This means spinning the chain over a clean dry cloth until the chain is completely dry. This takes a minute or two of spinning. As mention above you can use an alcohol based product (hand sanitizer) on rag to speed up the drying process. Once dry I will then apply Finshline Wet Lube (Cross Country) to each link. I spin the cranks for another minute or two and if possible let stand over night. The next day I will thoroughly wipe the chain down as much as possible. For early spring conditions I will stop here.

For dry dusty summer conditions I will additionally add a coating of Finish Line Dry Teflon Lube to lock in the wet lube. This is just a spray and wipe of excess. I learned this from Finish Lines chief mechanic. He has some really good tips. Although I don't recommend using the Ceramic Lube, it makes a grinding sound due to the cermaic particles. I don't know what the hell they were thinking with that one. Also avoid Finish Line Krytec it just not up to the task.

https://maintainthatride.blogspot.com/

This procedure usually lets me get away with weekly cleaning only which entails a quick damp ragging of the chain followed by a thorough spin rag dry and then a reapplying wet or dry lube depending on the conditions. Then about once a month I will do the mechanical chain cleaning thing, depending on conditions of course.

Here is why I don't like WD-40.

What you absolutely don't want to do is clean the chain using WD-40 because "capillary action" will draw the solvent and the extremely light oil into the chain. Then when you go to apply your heavier grade oil chain lube or wax it won't get drawn into the chain via capillary action like it should because the heavier oil can't displace the lighter oil. So you usually end up wiping off all the good heavier oil that you want on your chain.

Answer your questions.

As a rule I don't like using orange solvents (aka: citric acid) because it's an acid. Don't get me wrong citric acid is probably the best degreaser know to man but it is an acid and metal by nature is porous.

On a side note citric acid crystals looks really cool under the microscope.










I don't recommend using Simple Green ethier as it is acidic. I recommend using Blue Dawn dish soap which has a PH of 7. Why not use enviromentally friend products when you can?






I don't like compress air because of the force behind it. It's too easy to push water into seals and force lubricants out. Plus trying to fix contaminated disc brakes is a horrible deal which I try to avoid at all costs.

Also every time I clean or due maintenance I always finish with a quick wipe of my disc brakes with brake clean.

I hope that helps!


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## desrcr (Feb 8, 2004)

do you guys wax you frames too? lol
chains are problematic by design, do your best and replace often.
the $ you spend on cleaners and lube can be put towards semi-annual chain replacement


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

desrcr said:


> do you guys wax you frames too? lol
> chains are problematic by design, do your best and replace often.
> the $ you spend on cleaners and lube can be put towards semi-annual chain replacement


Im sure some people do wax their frames, it probably would help shed mud when washing.

Chains are simple devices and hardly problematic by design, I dont understand your statement.

Everything I have for cleaning my chain I use elsewhere, and purchase a chain when I NEED it not just randomly because I cant maintain it.

It seems there are lots of mechanically UN-inclined people in here providing misinformation regarding so many things. It is comical how the interwebs also created mass-misinformation.

best of luck to you all!


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> Yes, I am really anti WD-40.
> 
> After cleaning my chain.....
> 
> .....I hope that helps!


Yes it does, thanks. However wiping your chain dry does nothing for water trapped in the rollers and between the plates. Just sayin". I sounds like even this has not been a problem for you and your drivetrains. Hold this thought. is

So....

Once more, *we are not talking about WD for cleaning or lubrication.*

So where we really disagree is in the capillary action impeded by contamination. I suggest, though, that the wetting properties of lubes is pretty well demonstrated and working the chain through the gears, especially the modern bushingless chains which promote superior lubrication flow, gets it where it is needed.

We have demonstrated this during a chain workshop we did with the team. We took an absolutely dry and lube-less chain and ran it on a drivetrain for it's dramatic death-rattle sound. Using Phils Tenacious Oil (which is what I use, or Rohloff's) on each link we proceeded to run the drivetrain through the gears for a few minutes. Having a bunch of teen racers listen to the chain slowly become quieter actually got their attention. I then disassembled the chain to show the effect of running the lube in. Plenty o'lube on the pins. It was a fun demo and made very plain the advantage of lubrication. It also made the boring Trainer Workout a little less tedious on a rainy day. I never thought it would come in handy for todays post.

The running of the drivetrain and the lateral movement of the chain, I guess, moves the lube around pretty well. If we relied on capillary action you might be right, I don't know, but that is why you run the lube in! While capillary action cannot be denied it is nothing compared to mechanic action.

All the other stuff, why you don't like acids and stuff, that pretty much falls into personal preference and beliefs. It is for that reason that I don't come down hard on just about any method for cleaning or lubing a chain, even allowing for a chain that is still wet inside. There is a huge amount of latitude for chain management. As long as it works the only method for cleaning or lubing is that is harmful is to not do it at all.

However that was not the point of my original objection:

7) WD-40 should never touch a bike.
WD-40 is an extremely useful tool for driving water out of hard-to-reach places: chains, pivots, and the like. If you cannot dry your chain it will rust. If you don't have a compressor to dry your chain then after washing you spray it with WD-40. It will drive the water out of your chain. In a few hours it is bone dry and clean and you can relube.

My history and the volume of my experience tells me it works just fine to dry chains and does not obscure, prevent, or in any way block or hamper subsequent lubrication.

I first started using WD back in the late 80's after later evening and night rides in really crappy conditions. Around here you cannot allow our clay to dry because it dries rock-hard. My Canadian bro-in-law learned this the hard way. As top racer for Canondale, he knew best; he would just brush it off in the morning. Fine for BC but.....next day..... Hee-hee. I digress.

Anyhow, we would go for these rides called Hell or High Water Rides, every Thursday evening for 9 years, that most often ended well after dark but we rode in _all_ conditions. It was before I knew better. Afterwards we would go eat copious amounts of food and drink beer. Great days. No matter how late it was or how miserable when I got home I would take the bike leaning against the fence and blast the snot out of the bike with a high-pressure hose. This included the chain which might not only be covered and imbued with clay but all sorts of debris and small critters; the grinding would break your heart. I would take the bike and bounce it to knock as much water off of it as possible and put it in the shed. Before I walked away, without fail, I sprayed WD heavily on the chain, locked it up and walked away. Next day the chain was dry and rust free and I would lube.

It wasn't something I read in a book, it didn't come from somebody's rules about how to manage a chain, it wasn't the consequence of negotiating some set of beliefs about how things work. It simply worked. The beliefs, theories, arguments, all mean nothing in the face of a method that works. I guess that comes from being the son of a mechanic; if it runs well and holds up then you must've done something right, and remember it for next time.


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## desrcr (Feb 8, 2004)

RipRoar said:


> Im sure some people do wax their frames, it probably would help shed mud when washing.
> 
> Chains are simple devices and hardly problematic by design, I dont understand your statement.
> 
> ...


By problematic, I mean to clean and lube. Most ways to clean will wash some amount of grit into the pins.
Dirt on the sprocket will be forced, while riding, into the chain and into the pins, Lubing will lessen these problems but not eliminate them.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Thanks for the input mike!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> Plus trying to fix contaminated disc brakes is a horrible deal which I try to avoid at all costs.


Fixing contaminated disc brakes is dead easy.
Go to top of hill, ride down dragging the affected brake. The brake gets hot and burns the contaminants out.


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## twedspeed (Jul 7, 2007)

"JET WASH AND BE DAMNED" thats wot I say ! - Its a quick and easy way to get the s**te off.
Bearings - Cables - Chains & Pads are all expendable items that you should be replacing on a regular basis, unless your riding like a p***y .
So when they get covered in trail crap.....just blast the f****rs clean, and when they wear out.... buy yourself some new ones !. - Bike bearings arent THAT expensive !! Full set of 12 for my Enduro SL = only £23. off E-bay. 
a few measly quid on a new chain and a few bike bits aint nothing to moan about , Not when you weigh up the punnisment they were designed to take and the pleasure they give !! BLAST IT - DRY IT - LUBE IT - RIDE IT ! 
Alternatively you could sit on here chatting about lemmon pledge and WD 40, then wrap your bike up in tissue paper and store it in the attic ?


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## Moozh (Jan 20, 2010)

Sometimes I get to reading threads around here and have to pause, shake my head and remind myself that we are talking about bicycles....goddam bicycles and not nuclear reactors. 

I have a 12 year old bike, I barely ever wash it..only when it gets stupid muddy and thats only because I have to take it into the house and dont want mud on "stuff". t's a rigid bike so admittedly it doesnt demand the care and light touch of a FS bike with bearings, seals, stanchions, pivots, etc. 

If possible I let it dry, then brush the dry mud off, narrow stiff bristle brush for about the crank and bottom bracket and rear hub area. spray can of bicycle cleaner/degreaser on the drivetrain, park tools chain cleaner doohickey, lube chain. Maybe a good overall wipedown with a damp cloth. And then doing all of this is not that frequent, once every 2 or 3 months. Generally when I've had a particularly wet or muddy ride. 

I try not to ride when it's too wet and muddy truth be told beccause of the cleanup.

And whats with all the delicacy with a chain anyhow? They are cheaper and easier to put on than a tire. I always have a spare in my pack but have never needed to use one trailside.


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## K-OS (Nov 9, 2010)

Moozh said:


> And whats with all the delicacy with a chain anyhow? They are cheaper and easier to put on than a tire. I always have a spare in my pack but have never needed to use one trailside.


Depends on the bike... my tires are $65 each, my chain was $100. +tx :yikes:


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm also in the don't bother to wash it group reasons :-


1. a frame doesn't need cleaning, dirt sitting on it won't damage it within 10mins of riding clean or not there is fresh dirt on the frame anyway.

actually thats it, your all programmed to think clean is best but it really isn't.

Just clean chain + stanchions don't waste your time outside of this.


Bikes are for riding, not prettying up to show of to your mates.


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## jerry68 (Aug 23, 2007)

racerick said:


> yeah if you believe that, then according to mba, your stem wears out too and bars and everything else
> 
> what a bunch of ka ka that is
> 
> why bother to wipe your a*s since you shower anyway < not directed to anybody in particular, just making fun of that stupid article in mba


:thumbsup: If MBA is correct, you would need to replace the entire bike before the chain ever wore out. I am sure MBA is not just pandering for advertising dollars


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## picassomoon (Jun 16, 2009)

Here's everything to know about cleaning a chain. Should be done after every ride.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

jerry68 said:


> :thumbsup: If MBA is correct, you would need to replace the entire bike before the chain ever wore out. I am sure MBA is not just pandering for advertising dollars


MBA screwed up they should put the schedule in hours and not in years! Convert the schedule to hours and it makes more sense.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Turveyd said:


> I'm also in the don't bother to wash it group reasons :-
> 
> 1. a frame doesn't need cleaning, dirt sitting on it won't damage it within 10mins of riding clean or not there is fresh dirt on the frame anyway.
> 
> ...


The whole purpose of cleaning and doing routine maintenance on your mountain bike is so that when your 30 KM in to the back country of the Canadian Rockies that your bicycle doesn't crap out and you end up with a two day walk out of the bush. In fact the general rule of thumb is after 24 hours of exposure SAR considers it a body recovery mission rather then a search and resuce mission.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> The whole purpose of cleaning and doing routine maintenance on your mountain bike is so that when your 30 KM in to the back country of the Canadian Rockies that your bicycle doesn't crap out and you end up with a two day walk out of the bush. In fact the general rule of thumb is after 24 hours of exposure SAR considers it a body recovery mission rather then a search and resuce mission.


Cleaning and maintenance are related, but they're not the same thing.

There are people who baby and polish their bikes but have no idea how to maintain them. There are also people who keep a bike well maintained and in perfect working condition without fussing over it or regularly cleaning it.

30km is a long walk home, it's not a rescue/recovery unless you're both badly injured and completely unprepared (communication, clothing, food etc etc).


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Well, I have been backpacking in the Canadian Rockies and been snowed on as late as July 1st. I agree with you it's better to be over prepared then under prepared. Part of the preperation is making sure you bike is 100% up to snuff. I would be very hesitant to go into the back country with several of the "duct tapers" that posted on this thread.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

From the perspective of running teams, the routinely dirty bikes are generally the most poorly maintained. Poorly maintained bikes fail and everyone on the training ride suffers with the waiting.

As for wearing out a bike before you wear out a a chain? I go through 3-4 chains before I have to replace a cassettes and/or chainrings. Old and dirty chains wear out cassettes and chainrings to a point that they cannot use a new chain without slipping. Even good chains, not stretched, wear out gears and you have to replace them.

I took my eye off of my son's Yeti Arc as the mileage was not extreme and his mud bike took the crappy conditions. Chain stretched (actually it wears at the rollers and pins) mooned the middle and small XTR chainrings and many gears on the cassette. Cha-ching.


My Bontrager Racelite is 15 years old and has gone through 7 drivetrains. I watch the chains like a hawk. I cannot imagine anyone wearing out a chain before a bike. If someone says they do I won't call them a liar but I cannot imagine how that is possible.

Here's a shot of my go-to bike right after I totally refurbished her. She has seen it all, shown below. 

Also a old shot from her original color and decals in '98. Wow! I just noticed the Salsa 120mm 10º Quill stem. I wonder where that is?


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## Major Tom NZ (Feb 20, 2011)

don't put lube on your brake pads even if they are squeaking (I kid thee not LBS guy was telling me about that one the other day)


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## amishscum (Nov 12, 2006)

I once discovered two cracks in a frame near the BB / Seat tube junction after wiping some dirt away from the area. Half of me was really bummed out, and the other half was stoked for finding the source of an elusive "creak" that I thought was the pedal.

Glad I found the cracks before the frame failed. Wouldn't have seen them if I hadn't been thoroughly cleaning the frame.


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## racerick (Mar 15, 2009)

Turveyd said:


> I'm also in the don't bother to wash it group reasons :-
> 
> 1. a frame doesn't need cleaning, dirt sitting on it won't damage it within 10mins of riding clean or not there is fresh dirt on the frame anyway.
> 
> ...


many people like to keep their stuff in nice condition 
personally, i like my bike to perform and look good, not like a p.o.s. ha ha


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

Cleaning a Chain.

Disclaimer - I use dino-juice lube ( Chain-L)

This process has been used for many years with no problems.
I learned this in the mid 70's from a Pro Moto-X team a riding buddy used to race with.

First - remove chain from bike.
Second - drop into a gallon jug filed to half with Kerosene.
Third - Soak, shake, rattle and roll. Repeat
Fourth - Hang chain above Kerosene container to drip dry.
Fifth - Blow out chain using compressed air.
Sixth - Re-lube chain and let soak.
Seventh - remove excess lube
Eighth - re-install chain on bike
Ninth - Wipe chain until outer plates are clean.
Tenth - Filter Kerosene thru coffee filter or similar to remove dirt, sand and other contaminates. 

Now your ready for your next ride.

Another quick tip. Run two chains.
One on the bike, the other cleaned and ready to go.

And yes, keep your chain very clean - this means the rollers etc not just the outer plates. A dirty chain wears itself and the rings a lot quicker than a properly cared for chain, not to mention shifting a whole lot better.

michael


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

mykel said:


> Cleaning a Chain.
> 
> Disclaimer - I use dino-juice lube ( Chain-L)
> 
> ...


This is pretty much exactly what I do, including using 2 chains. It's fast and it works extremely well, not to mention it's economical (being able to re-use the kerosene.) Well done. :thumbsup:


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## Steve121 (Mar 24, 2010)

twedspeed said:


> "JET WASH AND BE DAMNED" thats wot I say ! - Its a quick and easy way to get the s**te off.
> Bearings - Cables - Chains & Pads are all expendable items that you should be replacing on a regular basis, unless your riding like a p***y .
> So when they get covered in trail crap.....just blast the f****rs clean, and when they wear out.... buy yourself some new ones !. - Bike bearings arent THAT expensive !! Full set of 12 for my Enduro SL = only £23. off E-bay.
> a few measly quid on a new chain and a few bike bits aint nothing to moan about , Not when you weigh up the punnisment they were designed to take and the pleasure they give !! BLAST IT - DRY IT - LUBE IT - RIDE IT !
> Alternatively you could sit on here chatting about lemmon pledge and WD 40, then wrap your bike up in tissue paper and store it in the attic ?


:thumbsup: You had me rolling with that post.

I own a car care center since 24 years and my machines are industrial ones.I never ever been shy to blast my bike,even after the first ride being new.When its dirty,you can choose to take 4 hours to clean it like a Nancy or get the job done in 15 minutes.

I never ever had a problem with that process..I BLAST IT-DRY IT- LUBE IT and RIDE IT.Every winter time,I stip the bike completly,change all the bearings( Just did it today for my Rockhopper pro ) and it cost me 22 dolars to get the whole thing done.

Am I gonna spend 4 hours after each ride to clen it like a Nancy to save 22 dollars a year? NO. Those 4 hours can be transfer in trail time riding.

So heres the new rule on MTBR from twedspeed and he is so damn right.

BLAST IT - DRY IT - LUBE IT - RIDE IT !


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Makes sense, if you're riding a cheap bike with cheap parts. It would cost me a lot more money to replace my bearings. 

Oh, and remind me to never use your car care center. I'd rather have someone clean my car like a Nancy than just BLAST IT and DRY IT.

lol.


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## picassomoon (Jun 16, 2009)

Steve121 said:


> BLAST IT - DRY IT - LUBE IT - RIDE IT !


Some combination of this can work well in the bedroom too.


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## Steve121 (Mar 24, 2010)

jtmartino said:


> Makes sense, if you're riding a cheap bike with cheap parts. It would cost me a lot more money to replace my bearings.
> 
> Oh, and remind me to never use your car care center. I'd rather have someone clean my car like a Nancy than just BLAST IT and DRY IT.
> 
> lol.


You are very arrogant.The Rockhopper is not a cheap bike as you call it..

AND you are the poor guy who prefer to spend 4 hours to clean a bike than to pay 60 dollars once a year to change a set of bearings.If you cannot afford to ride an expensive bike,just go to Wally World,They have models for guys like you.

Who said we are washing cars like Nancys? 24 years in business doesnt ring you a bell?


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

@ mykel> The 70's, are you serious? Shall we also go back to platform shoes, bell bottoms, and disco?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Steve121 said:


> So heres the new rule on MTBR from twedspeed and he is so damn right.
> 
> BLAST IT - DRY IT - LUBE IT - RIDE IT !


That's how I do it. Works great and I've never had a problem caused by it. I've cared for 6 FS bikes this way.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)




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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Steve121 said:


> You are very arrogant.The Rockhopper is not a cheap bike as you call it..
> 
> AND you are the poor guy who prefer to spend 4 hours to clean a bike than to pay 60 dollars once a year to change a set of bearings.If you cannot afford to ride an expensive bike,just go to Wally World,They have models for guys like you.
> 
> Who said we are washing cars like Nancys? 24 years in business doesnt ring you a bell?


My posting may have been arrogant, but yours was idiotic. Your bike is cheap, however you slice it. I never said it was a bad bike, but you are stupid for pouring money into bearings that shouldn't have to be replaced once a year.

The rest of your posting doesn't even make sense. I have more money in spare parts lying around than you have in your entire bike. And a wash takes me 20 minutes. Keep posting though - your ridiculous posts makes this thread entertaining. :thumbsup:


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

K-OS said:


> Depends on the bike... my tires are $65 each, my chain was $100. +tx :yikes:


Try a cn-7701 $25 from Jensons


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## Steve121 (Mar 24, 2010)

jtmartino said:


> My posting may have been arrogant, but yours was idiotic. Your bike is cheap, however you slice it. I never said it was a bad bike, but you are stupid for pouring money into bearings that shouldn't have to be replaced once a year.
> 
> The rest of your posting doesn't even make sense. I have more money in spare parts lying around than you have in your entire bike. And a wash takes me 20 minutes. Keep posting though - your ridiculous posts makes this thread entertaining. :thumbsup:


Said by the one who needed 12 years to buy a decent bike:thumbsup:

So you need 20 minutes to wash your bike and you wash it as ther Nancy that you are? Not surprising me,a bike that only see pavement is not too hard to clean

You jump to conclusion very fast.Who s telling you that those bearings are not trash ready once a year? Do you know me? Do you know how many miles i do every year?

If you want to make a dick contest,go see somwehere else,******.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Steve121 said:


> Said by the one who needed 12 years to buy a decent bike:thumbsup:
> 
> So you need 20 minutes to wash your bike and you wash it as ther Nancy that you are? Not surprising me,a bike that only see pavement is not too hard to clean
> 
> ...


Where do you get your information? Yet again, we have a complete idiot trying to prove themselves on the interwebs with absolutely no argument or compelling evidence in their support. 12 years? Where do you even get that?

Oh, hey Mr. Hypocrite, aren't you the guy who uses Armor All on your tires? LOL, way to go, Nancy.

And you obviously know little about bikes. Like that time you crashed, scratched your Alivio shifters, and through they were broken (LOL.) Protip: bearings should last more than a year under normal use. If they don't, it's time to go take better care of your bike or go ceramic.

Oh, and BTW, you talk a lot of trash for only having 3 years under your belt. You're a noob. Leave the advice-giving to people who no longer ride with training wheels .


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RipRoar said:


>


Oh yeah.


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## Steve121 (Mar 24, 2010)

jtmartino said:


> Where do you get your information? Yet again, we have a complete idiot trying to prove themselves on the interwebs with absolutely no argument or compelling evidence in their support. 12 years? Where do you even get that?
> 
> Oh, hey Mr. Hypocrite, aren't you the guy who uses Armor All on your tires? LOL, way to go, Nancy.
> 
> And you obviously know little about bikes. Like that time you crashed, scratched your Alivio shifters, and through they were broken (LOL.) Protip: bearings should last more than a year under normal use. If they don't, it's time to go ceramic.


Glad to see that you had to dig in my profile to bring your insults to the next level.

In case you dont know,theres people who are comming here to have a good respectfull talk about the mountain biking.So why do you have to quote the others like a complete jerk telling that they have a cheap bike? I am aware that many people here have a better bike than mine and many have a better bike than yours.Im happy with my bike and its a perfect fit for me.Do you have a problem with this?

I understand that you may not agree with my previous post,but still wondering why you came in with that crap instead of telling me what you did not agree with?

Yeah,you have a more expensive bike than I do.Do you want a medal? Are you gonna sleep better tonight knowing that you have a more expensive nike than at least 1 member of the MTBR community?

Damn,you are a very little man...


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Steve121 said:


> I understand that you may not agree with my previous post,but still wondering why you came in with that crap instead of telling me what you did not agree with?


1. "Said by the one who needed 12 years to buy a decent bike"

What are you even talking about? I do not agree with this.

2. "So you need 20 minutes to wash your bike and you wash it as ther Nancy that you are?"

Says the guy who uses Armor All on his tires. And you spend 15 minutes yourself, so I don't see your point. I do not agree with this.

3. "Not surprising me,a bike that only see pavement is not too hard to clean"

First you get defensive because I don't know you, nor do I know how many miles you put on a bike. Then, you try to insult me by saying I don't even ride on trails. LOL, way to go again, Mr. Hypocrite. I do not agree with this.

Yep, you're a hypocritical noob who talks a big game but can't back it up. I'm done with this...it's like arguing with someone who has autism. But maybe that's just because you're an ESL French Canadian.... .


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## Steve121 (Mar 24, 2010)

jtmartino said:


> 1. "Said by the one who needed 12 years to buy a decent bike"
> 
> What are you even talking about? I do not agree with this.
> 
> ...


Bravo.Way to go.I am not surprise to see that you are racist.Next thing willl be you bragging about your post count. The more i read your post,the more you are a complate waiste of time.

I ve been digging on your posts too,and noticed that you are kinda hard with newbies. And you argue with people 3 posts out of 5.So I am not surprise with whats going on here.

Good thing thatr you wont reply to this post because im the one done with you.The day i registered to this forum was not to meet showoff people like you.Do you brag with your crappy bike around the neighboorhood like you do here? Im sure yes

BLAST IT - DRY IT - LUBE IT AND RIDE IT !!!


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

sopwithcamel said:


> @ mykel> The 70's, are you serious? Shall we also go back to platform shoes, bell bottoms, and disco?


Serious - why yes I am.

Just because I started riding in the 60's does not mean that some things just plain work. If it was good enough for a pro Moto team and has worked for me an a lot of others since - why the h3ll not? If anything I posted the "short" version.

If ya want to really get into it - use a second container or a second container and a screen. Flush chain. Decant used kerosene into 2nd container - repeat until kerosene bath is clear. Then proceed as usual.

As for lubing - the best method actually ( like at the factory ) is to fully submerge the chain, work it under the lube, let it soak, drain and wipe. This is the only way to get a lot of lube into the pin/roller assembly. Dripping, squirting, etc does just not get enough lube deep into the gubbins. This soaking works great with chain-bar oil, but is not feasible with normal lube,(unless your name is Gate$ ) so as an economical short-cut - generously lube each roller at the plate boundary, then store chain in its original plastic box. Remove 2nd chain from its box - it has had a lot of time for the lube to soak in, (Still not as effective as a full soak ) 
Oh and you could also heat your lube in a cup of hot water to help thin it a bit for better penetration. (dino juice / synthetic esters etc )
Wipe and install etc etc.

Platforms - never used them, not comfy on the bike.
Bell-bottoms - same, always got caught in my chain.
Disco - nope on that too - was more into Zep and Floyd.

Thanks for playin :thumbsup:

michael


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

One of my long-time cycling friends, a very remarkable wrench, bike builder and supporter of bike events like the AIDS ride and various racing teams, preferred to use gasoline with the jar method to clean his chains. He got so much grief for doing that that he switched to kerosene.

Sure you can make all the environmental arguments you want, or even pronounce combustible dangers of both, but don't tell me that they don't work. His bikes were always in fantastic shape and you knew that if you got one of his builds it was sound and true. However, truth be told, many of his bikes were bare metal. We used to give him a lot of grief that all of his solvents removed any paint he might have had. He has mellowed with age, though, or at least he has given in to the more fragile nature of surfaces on carbon fiber.

I think the problem were having here really is based in the title of the thread. It presumes that there are absolutes to any of this. Between the margins of not washing your bike at all and sandblasting it there is a lot of room for style.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't get it.

1)Why go through the hassle of taking the chain on off the frame when you can just spin it through the mechanical chain cleaner for two minutes and be done with it?

2) Why use a non enviromentally hydrocarbon to clean the chain when we can use a enviormentally friendly chain cleaning agent such as MEC Bio-Cycle?


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

sopwithcamel said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> 1)Why go through the hassle of taking the chain on off the frame when you can just spin it through the mechanical chain cleaner for two minutes and be done with it?
> 
> 2) Why use a non enviromentally hydrocarbon to clean the chain when we can use a enviormentally friendly chain cleaning agent such as MEC Bio-Cycle?


1. Somebody hasn't heard of a master link.... :thumbsup: 
2. My Finish Line Citrus Degreaser is just as "biodegradable" as your stuff :thumbsup: You may as well just face it, mtb'ing still produces waste and poisons and crap in the environment. As a matter of fact, any modern-day activity will destroy the environment. The sooner we accept that, the sooner we can go about mitigating that damage. And solvents in any form, even "biodegradable," will damage the environment more than I like... but I'm still not willing to stop riding.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Yes you can break the chain using the master link but it is still faster and better to use a mechanical chain cleaner. With a mechanical chain cleaner the brushes mechanically clean the inside and out side of the chain. The mechanical chain cleaner also helps cleans the a chain ring and the rear derailleur jockey pulleys.


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## daisycutter (Sep 18, 2005)

spray diluted simple green 1min
*leave for 15 mins
*Hose down 1 mins
*dry or ride round block.


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## chksix (Oct 9, 2008)

Add to the list:
Don't spin the pedals with the waterhose until they sound like an airplane :nono: 

I did that to my cheapo BBB flatties and the bearings were shot afterwards. My baby son laughed so much at the noise so I couldn't stop 

Great reson to buy new pedals though


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## Pollution Warrior (Apr 3, 2010)

Be careful with the rear disc brake. If you're going to spray the cassette or chain off, either cover the rotor ad caliper with a plastic bag or take the time to remove the rotor (fairly easy if you use Shimano's Center-lock).

Not ever cleaning it if you live in a dusty environment is bad too. I live in a place with very fine dust. It's hell on drive line components.Cleaning helps you get more life out of the parts.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Pollution Warrior, that is an excellent tip! You deserve maximum kudos for that one. Covering the disc brakes with plastic bags during cleaning and maintenance makes a great deal of sense!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> Pollution Warrior, that is an excellent tip! You deserve maximum kudos for that one. Covering the disc brakes with plastic bags during cleaning and maintenance makes a great deal of sense!


Or indeed just point the water-blaster in the other direction.


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

sopwithcamel said:


> Covering the disc brakes with plastic bags during cleaning and maintenance makes a great deal of sense!


Why exactly?
I clean my bike by first spraying it down with water from a garden hose - the whole bike, brakes and rotors included. Then I take a spray bottle of Simple Green mixed 50:50 with water and spray that on the bike to clean it. I spray everything, seat, frame, drivetrain, wheels, brakes, and rotors...etc...If anything is really dirty, like the drivetrain, I scrub it with a toothbrush. Then rinse with water from the hose.

Bounce off the excess water, and dry it with a microfiber drying towel. These things are awesome, they suck the water out of all the little cracks and tight spots like inside bolt heads. Lube everything (Tri-Flow) with a drip bottle and paper towel, and go for a little spin up & down the road to heat/dry the brakes completely.

Whole process takes like 20 min. But I don't do it very often, usually only if the bike is muddy. Every three or four rides I take the chain off (love quick links) clean it in Simple Green, rinse with water, and lube, and brush off the cassette (dry) with a toothbrush.

Been doing this for 20+ years (using Simple Green) no problems yet.


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## Bailey44 (Dec 30, 2010)

deoreo said:


> Why exactly?
> I clean my bike by first spraying it down with water from a garden hose - the whole bike, brakes and rotors included. Then I take a spray bottle of Simple Green mixed 50:50 with water and spray that on the bike to clean it. I spray everything, seat, frame, drivetrain, wheels, brakes, and rotors...etc...If anything is really dirty, like the drivetrain, I scrub it with a toothbrush. Then rinse with water from the hose.
> 
> Bounce off the excess water, and dry it with a microfiber drying towel. These things are awesome, they suck the water out of all the little cracks and tight spots like inside bolt heads. Lube everything (Tri-Flow) with a drip bottle and paper towel, and go for a little spin up & down the road to heat/dry the brakes completely.
> ...


I do the same exact thing. Never had any issues and my brakes always work just fine.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Same experience with Simple Greens. It rinses off really well. No subsequent disc brake problems.


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## partydollagogo (Jul 23, 2007)

This thread seriously devolved into a chain cleaning pissing contest. I’m surprised that has not been recommended for a trailside save from mud induced chainsuck.

Lots of things work, and bikes are a lot more durable than the ridiculous replacement schedule in the latest issue of MBA. Funny how the same advertisers who pay for MBA’s written propaganda also like to sell you on the durability of their products.

I’ve been riding muddy Pacific Northwest trails year round for like 30 years, and I can almost always get a chain to last more than 6 months performing perfectly. The rest of the bike too. Here are the basic tips.

Dry Cleaning
Only do a full wet clean when there is excess build up. Excess build up will occur after riding in mud and water that splashes up from the tires to the chain or after multiple rides in dry conditions. Dry clean whenever possible, and wet clean when there is build up.

If there is no excessive buildup, I clean after almost every ride by running chain while holding a cotton rag around it until there are black marks on the rag. Rotate rag and rerun until more black marks appear. Keep doing this until the black marks get negligible. Also run a bunched up section of the rag on the derailleur pulleys. Clean off the chain rings by running rag on the inside while turning the cranks. Clean the cassette with a brush or run the rag between the cogs while using the ratchet to move the chain around and provide resistance in a two step motion. Now you have removed all the major grime in about 5 minutes without a hose and bucket and without getting nasty stuff inside the already lubricated inner parts. 

You can spend as much or as little time doing the dry clean, as conditions warrant. You can clean other parts too. Sometimes I start out by brushing off the whole bike with a brush to remove dried mud that has stuck to the forks, rear suspension and links, pedals, etc. 

After everything is clean where you want it relube. I start by relubing non chain components because they will get worked when I lube the chain. I use Tri-Flow spray to put a little smudge on all derailleur pivots and directly at the derailleur pulley bearings from both sides. Be careful not to overspray on your rear disc; use a rag to block if needed. I spray my 4 year old with thousands of miles of abuse that I have never had to rebuild XTR pedals one spray on each side at the springs and cleat movement location, 4 sprays total. I will also remove the cable removal screw from the shifter and squirt a short burst inside the shifter. Then you put the lube on the chain and run everything for a minute or two while shifting through all gears repeatedly. If you use Rock N Roll lube it will further clean the inner workings of the chain by drawing out grime from the inside with its solvent. Wipe off excess in all places, and only wipe off outer plates of chain lightly. Done and ready to ride perfectly the next time in less than 20 minutes total. You might check the tires too or whatever else.

Wet Wash
Excess buildup happens frequently around here and your wet wash can be moderated as conditions warrant too. Sometimes I just hose off the mud and do a quick chain clean by spraying some type of cleaner (Simple Green) on the drivetrain then clean with a brush. Here is something I always do with a wet washed chain: turn the hose down to low-med spray and spray it directly at the lower section of the chain forward of the rear derailleur while running the chain for about 10-20 revs. I do this as a rinse. Clean the rest of the bike with hose and brush but use common sense. Don’t spray directly at bearing areas, stanchions, any of the handlebar/headset area. I do do the high speed pedal flap trick, but use your head dummy. Spray the pedal from the outside so no water is directed at the bearing entrance seal on the inside where the spindle is. Also, spin the wheels and spray the hose while the wheel is turning directly at your $600 hope brake calipers so that water flushes through the brake area as the rotor is turning. This cleans out the brakes perfectly and I have never had any water problem with them.

Drop dry the bike a few times, run the brakes as you push it into the garage to free up any material that got pushed in there. Then do a quick towel dry, especially on the chain. Lube as described previously. 

One note: I have seen water in the bottom bracket on many bikes that were never sprayed with a hose. This is due to condensation from hot cold cycles, especially a cold bike brought in from the outside into a warm house or garage. I recommend the use of Chris King bottom brackets and their relube tool. You can easily relube your “cartridge bearings” this way without even removing them from the bike. And the tool pushes out all the old grease. I do it about 3-4 times a year with Buzzies Slick Honey in the summer and Phil Wood Waterproof Grease in the winter.

My bikes are meticulously maintained, run perfectly, and my parts last long after I have replaced them with something better.

Me like da car clean da bike clean n da girl dirty


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

BratoStoofe said:


> It - is improbable!
> 
> Regards


Best part of the whole thread. :thumbsup:


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Hey partydollagogo, thanks for taking the time to type out your bike cleaning procedures. I think it will help a lot mountain bikers on the fourm. 

I also found your note on condensation in the bottom bracket very interesting. Have you ever considered drilling a small hole in the bottom bracket shell so you can drain out the moisture occasionally? Then you could just plug the whole with a little set screw.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> Hey partydollagogo, thanks for taking the time to type out your bike cleaning procedures. I think it will help a lot mountain bikers on the fourm.
> 
> I also found your note on condensation in the bottom bracket very interesting. Have you ever considered drilling a small hole in the bottom bracket shell so you can drain out the moisture occasionally? Then you could just plug the whole with a little set screw.


External bottom brackets cannot be drained of water by draining the BB shell. Take a read of this thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=7908069


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Dougal, on some bikes you can, some even have a drain hole.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> Dougal, on some bikes you can, some even have a drain hole.


Let me rephrase this.
The water which enters the BB does not come in via the frame and cannot be drained via the frame. It comes in via the axle and sits in the crevice in the cup against the bearing.

One of my test riders was able to fill an external BB with enough water to kill the bearings while keeping the paper test strip wrapped around the BB centre sleeve dry.


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## partydollagogo (Jul 23, 2007)

I read your thread Dougal. You guys obviously know a lot more about it than I do.

Originally Posted by Dougal
"The problem with external BB's is water gets trapped in the cup in the crevice between the bearing and cup. This is the lowest point and can't be drained unless you remove the cups from the bike and leave them sitting with the bearing side up.
A drain hole in the BB can't get water out of this crevice and can't actually help. CNC milling in storm drains as I do (or a variety of similar methods) are the only way to drain this crevice with the BB still in the bike. "

Personally, I have found a way around this problem. I have no affiliation, I am just a consumer, but the Chris King system works for me. The bearings are stainless steel, all you have to do is take out the crank spindle, but bearings remain in the BB shell. Then you insert the grease fitting tool and it pushes out the old grease, water, any grime, and replenishes the bearings with fresh grease in less than 5 minutes.

The only problem is that CK only makes them for Shimano type spindle cranksets. I have Hammerschmidt on my mountain bike now and I am stuck with the HammerSchmidt specific bottom bracket, so I'll just have to replace them every so often. I do use the CK/XTR combo on my commuter though. Sorry if this is a deraillment of the thread, but water in the BB is a pertanant issue to the thread.

http://chrisking.com/tools/tls_bb


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## racer34v (Feb 25, 2011)

simple green.....


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

partydollagogo said:


> Personally, I have found a way around this problem. I have no affiliation, I am just a consumer, but the Chris King system works for me. The bearings are stainless steel, all you have to do is take out the crank spindle, but bearings remain in the BB shell. Then you insert the grease fitting tool and it pushes out the old grease, water, any grime, and replenishes the bearings with fresh grease in less than 5 minutes.
> 
> The only problem is that CK only makes them for Shimano type spindle cranksets. I have Hammerschmidt on my mountain bike now and I am stuck with the HammerSchmidt specific bottom bracket, so I'll just have to replace them every so often. I do use the CK/XTR combo on my commuter though. Sorry if this is a deraillment of the thread, but water in the BB is a pertanant issue to the thread.
> 
> http://chrisking.com/tools/tls_bb


Generally I've found owners of CK parts to be more proactive with maintenance and have fewer problems because of that alone. Of course you're paying more than 4x the price of a shimano bb you have an obligation to look after it.

Do their bearings have no inner seal? It appears the grease injector fills the void between the cup and the bearing, so anything that gets into the shell would have to be pushed right through the bearing to be purged.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

racer34v said:


> simple green.....


I don't understand people fascination with this stuff. I came across it in the states a few years back and found it useless for grease cutting, any normal dishwashing detergent was better. The dishwashing detergent was also phosphate free and biodegradable.


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## racer34v (Feb 25, 2011)

Works well for everything i have used it for..... and cuts grease and oil perfectly.... YMMV


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

Simple Green is pretty alkali with a PH of 9.35 versus a PH of 7.3 for Blue Dawn dish washing detergent. Unfortunately most alkali cleaners like simple green are very dangerous around aluminum and therefore I would recommend staying away from them.

See the link for the full story about it:

http://www.mechanicsupport.com/aircraft_cleaning.html

On a side note, Simple Green does have a cleaner specifically designed for bicycle but I would recommend doing some research on it before using it.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Let me rephrase this.
> The water which enters the BB does not come in via the frame and cannot be drained via the frame.


On my Racelite water can come in from the compression slit at the seatpost clamp. I keep it covered with a bit of tube. I have a drain hole in my BB shell and "weep" holes in my chainstays.

We put a drain hole in the BB shell of the Lenz Revelation due to leakage around the pivot.

Neither of these were designed with external bearing cranksets in mind but I now run one on the Bontrager. It has seen very little water this season but I do see a circle of oil wetting the soil on the bottom of the BB shell. _Something_ is flowing in this set-up.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Again...........dismissing useful methods of style with absolutes.

I have used Simple Greens on steel and alu bikes for years. It is great but I always warn people not to let things sit for more than about 5 minutes (this is arbitrary) as it can be hard on alu. In other words, pay attention. If you can't do that then don't use it.

It is much like using kerosene to clean your chain. Don't use it around an open flame. Use it in a well-ventilated area. If you can't do that don't use it.

One need not "stay away" from such things but learn to use them within their limits.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

The problem with the five minute rule is that it is still possible for Simple Green to get into all the nooks and cranies of the bike where you don't want it and which makes it difficult to rinse off. It is just smarter to use a safe product like Blue Dawn from the start.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Gee, Sop, I guess I must have ruined all my bikes and those of all my teams How long do you think my stuff would last if what you suggest was an issue? It's not like I am making this stuff up.

Worry about what might happen _if_ is very different from a track record of use over thousands of cycles.

Or maybe this one of those things where you have to tell people: "Kids, don't try this at home. I are a trained prefessional."


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## partydollagogo (Jul 23, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Generally I've found owners of CK parts to be more proactive with maintenance and have fewer problems because of that alone. Of course you're paying more than 4x the price of a shimano bb you have an obligation to look after it.
> 
> Do their bearings have no inner seal? It appears the grease injector fills the void between the cup and the bearing, so anything that gets into the shell would have to be pushed right through the bearing to be purged.


Grease goes in through the inside bottom part of the cup and exits through the inside top part by the race. It pushes all contaminates and old used grease through. I have not seen much in the way of contaminates come out though, just used (more oily) grease. After, you take your finger up inside on the top inner part of the race and wipe out the old grease with your finger. The outer seal part of the bearings do not weep any grease, since the seal is strong there. When grease is coming out of the inner top part of the race seal that seal is being pushed out in reverse of the direction that water would re-enter. I think they are sealed up prety good, and if you are worried about the seals CK will sell you new ones. By filling them this way with the tool, they are completly filled with grease, so water has no where to go. If you relube them a couple times a year they are always perfect.

On the water topic, Since I live in the PNW one thing I do with all my bikes is lube the hell out of them. I mean I use a lot of grease. I use grease as a water barrier in various places. Seatpost leak water? Lube it up around the color a bunch. Casette leak water into your inner bering cups? Fill the void with grease. As I mentioned before, I also spray Tri-Flow on moving parts. Wipe off the excess. But the point is if you are in wet conditions and want to prevent water damage related issues just keep things lubbed. I always read in manuals and such that with riding in wet conditions maintenence should be increased and parts don't last as long. The recent MBA artical says to increase replacement time for components by 80% if you ride in wet conditions. BullS#~!! The problem is people who don't use common sense and take care of their bikes. I have not found wet conditions to be a problem with longevity. I have a commuter that is a 1969 Raleigh that I ride in the wet winter months, just take care of it and lube the hell out of it.

BTW, I don't get the argument about Simple Green. I swear, some people on these forums just need an excuse to pick a fight with someone who can never actually hit them. I use Simple Green and have not had any problems that I can think of. But with what I have heard about the alkalinity and that it could damage aluminum parts, and knowing that dish soap works great too, I think I'll switch to dish soap. Why take chances? I got a lot of money in my nice anodized finishes and I like the way they look. Besides, Simple Green is $10 at Costco for a gallon that last me about 6 months. A gallon of dish soap is like $6 at Costco and I bet it will last a year. I know what I'm gonna do. But I am not going to argue with you guys about it.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

partydollagogo said:


> Grease goes in through the inside bottom part of the cup and exits through the inside top part by the race. It pushes all contaminates and old used grease through. I have not seen much in the way of contaminates come out though, just used (more oily) grease. After, you take your finger up inside on the top inner part of the race and wipe out the old grease with your finger. The outer seal part of the bearings do not weep any grease, since the seal is strong there. When grease is coming out of the inner top part of the race seal that seal is being pushed out in reverse of the direction that water would re-enter. I think they are sealed up prety good, and if you are worried about the seals CK will sell you new ones. By filling them this way with the tool, they are completly filled with grease, so water has no where to go. If you relube them a couple times a year they are always perfect.


I'm still struggling to visualise that, I'll have to get my hands on one at some stage.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

partydollagogo said:


> The problem is people who don't use common sense and take care of their bikes. I have not found wet conditions to be a problem with longevity.


While I do not believe in common sense (don't get me started) I think that this is the most important statement in this whole thread.

Every year I do at least a half dozen demos on how to clean a chain. First, I cite the LBS (who sponsors my teams and works on their bikes) method. Next I cite my hard-core nuts&bolts mechanic (who also works on our bikes), and last I cite my german born anal mechanic (who builds my wheels and checks my verk on builts).

I explain all the reasoning behind the methods. None of them are the same. Orange solvent/Simple Greens/ Kerosense, chain cleaning tool/jar/parts cleaning bin, on bike/off bike, Tri-flow/Phils/Bar Oil,( the road to hell is paved with cast-off bottles of lubrication: just look at What's the Best Lube threads:madman: )........

Then I ask who has the best method.

Blank stares.

Then I tell them that it is I, actually, who knows the secret. I tell them, conspiratorally, that the secret to the mystery of maintaining a chain is......TO MAKE SURE THEY DO IT. Any of the three methods or permutations thereof will work just fine. After a while they will figure out what fits in their lifestyle and keeps their stuff in shape.

And guys, not this is not about cleaning chains. It is called a metaphore.
Just in case....

Another interesting thing about this thread is that many devotees of a particular cleaning method have arrived at it by experience sometimes based upon an assumption or the consequence of many mistakes. Valid or not (who's to say) they have become methods proven to work for them. Few people come to this sort of understanding by reading things in a book. Hopefully few people will look at a list of absolute dos and don'ts and swallow that without a second thought. Nothing beats experience.

So if your method works for you and floats the boat between your ears, cool. If it seems to fall into the list of Don'ts listed above and your bike is just fine, thankyouverymuch, I wouldn't sweat it a bit. If you are having a problem with your equipment, that is another story. In the end, though, the worst thing you can do for your bike is to not pay it attention.

Oh, by the way, what lube would you have used for this?


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

He Mike, have a look at page 17, last paragraph, of Ibis's "Set Up Guide".

http://www.ibiscycles.com/downloads/setupguide.pdf

You can disagree with me all you want, but I am just telling it like it is.


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

sopwithcamel said:


> You can disagree with me all you want, but I am just telling it like it is.


So you have sited KMC, SRAM, IBIS, sites about how terrible Simple Green is...etc...etc...so do you use any of this stuff, or just read about it on the internet?
What is your personal experience with any of this stuff?
I know you started this thread wanting to know what others use/do to clean their bikes, but how'bout you "tell it like it is" in your opinion, how to clean and lube a bike?

For cleaners, I've personally used carbon tetrachloride, kerosene, many different dishwashing soaps (Joy, Dawn, etc...) Simple Green, and citrus cleaners.
A cleaner/degreaser by nature is pretty nasty stuff, in the end, I liked Simple Green, and citrus cleaners (I prefer the smell of Simple Green, YMMV) It seems to strike a good balance of actually cleaning/degreasing, and not killing me or the bike in the process.
Do I have to use it with thought/common sense? Yep, just like any other cleaner.

I have some more anecdotal evidence about Simple Green. I once had a particularly grimy-gritty freewheel from an old used bike, I took it off and submerged it in a little tub of full strength Simple Green, and promptly forgot about it for months... 
Well, guess what, I rinsed it off, lubed it up and it was fine, still in service today.
Was this the best thing to do?...nope. Would I recommend someone to do this?...nope. Did the part disintegrate in my hands?...nope.

It's quit frightening how quickly someone will dismiss something based solely on a link, or some info posted on the web "telling it like it is..." Yikes.

Like someone alread said, cleaning/lubing a chain or bike borders on a Religious discussion.


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## sopwithcamel (Oct 2, 2007)

When dealing different materials it's important to know how to take care of them. Before I got my new carbon fiber bike I did what everyone else did. I just used what was commercially available, recommended by the sales staff at the local bike shop, or used what I knew had worked well in the past. I really didn't put much though into what kind of chemicals I was putting on my bike. It was only when I started trying doing research on how to properly clean my carbon fiber bike that I realized that some of the products I had used in the past weren't such a good idea. I was lucky not to have done any long term damage but hind sight being 20-20 I am pretty sure I shortened the life of a chain or two.

As for your grimy-gritty freewheel if was made of steel it may have had more corrosion resistence at high PH numbers then aluminum. Or another possibility is that the dirt and grime on the free wheel lowered the PH from the 9.35 saving your freewheel. As it turns out the aluminum oxide protective coating (anodizing) on most aluminum frames and components is only stable between a PH of between 4.0 and 8.5.. Simple Green has a PH of 9.35 which is above that stability range and therefore harmful to aluminum especially when freshly scratched.

As for dismissing products because of a link, I think it is always prudent to error on the side of caution until the science is understood as to why a product should or should not be used. As you have mentioned above I am pulling the technical data directly from the component manufactures own technical documents and not basing it on mere opinion or supposition.

As for recommended products I think the research is all starting to point to one thing. For cleaning most things on the bike I would recommend sticking with a gentle detergent like Blue Dawn even going so far as using it as a chain cleaner when ever possible. Just be sure to dry the chain ASAP.

For heavier degreasing of the chain and drive train I am afraid the jury is still out on this one. I even sent well know bicycle mechanic Lennard Zinn an email asking for his thoughts and opinions on this. So far he hasn't answered it.

So stay tuned to my blog. I will be adding more information and tips as I figure them out. Also thanks for taking the time to write a reply. The more input we get on crowd source solutions the better.

http://alloycowboy.blogspot.com/


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## dead_dog_canyon (Sep 8, 2010)

sopwithcamel said:


> Why use a non enviromentally hydrocarbon...


Not trying to start a flame fest here but would like to point out hydrocarbons are naturally occurring. We get the distillates from crude oil.

When my dad was growing up, there was oil washing up on the beach in Santa Barbara from natural seeps long before any off shore drilling occurred. Sounds 'natural' enough to me....


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

sopwithcamel said:


> When dealing different materials it's important to know how to take care of them.
> 
> As for dismissing products because of a link, I think it is always prudent to error on the side of caution until the science is understood as to why a product should or should not be used. As you have mentioned above I am pulling the technical data directly from the component manufactures own technical documents and not basing it on mere opinion or supposition.


What this all comes down to is managing what you "know." One of the challenges I had as an academic coming from blue-collar stock was a difference between people who referred to books and people who gain experience by their own hand. deoreo makes a point questioning your citations and wondering at your experience. I have made a point of presenting my experience which clearly runs contrary to your research. So what do I do with all that experience? Do I slap my forehead and say "oh my God, have I been doing this wrong all along"?

My dad was a mechanic; self-taught then matriculating through machinist's training to become an auto mechanic. Every year there was a new stack of information about the new cars and how they work and how you can repair them. And every year dad would just shake his head. It wasn't as if he objected to the overall organization of the information; that was necessary as a map through the maze of new machines. Where he was troubled was with the techniques used and some of the materials used which simply ran counter to his experience. And when the factory rep came to visit the rep heard about it taking careful notes and thanking him. Further, he had to devise special tools to meet special needs. Over 45 years it had an effect.

The predominant effect on me was to appreciate the value of empirical experience and to not be afraid to challenge "experts" and "authorities" when things didn't add up against your experience. At the University I was further trained to manage information. Research, analysis, confirmation, and publication. It was all on paper, from paper, from people we assumed, because the info was in the University library, were authorities. I never had a problem with that because it was just a method, an exercise, and not a truth. I came a way from the University experience realizing that I could learn _anything_. Yet that was a very different thing from real-time experience.

I have just described two very different methods for understanding. These methods are best used to complement each other. In some situations one is stronger than the other but at no time can you stop thinking and just use your hands or disregard what's in your hands because of material in your mind. You just end up blowing things up or losing fingers; not good.

I not sure why the references you have made to sites say what they say. I am not privileged to their priorities, I'm not their CEO or head of their legal department, I don't know who wrote them. What I do know is I seldom take that kind of information at face value. Further, when that information runs contrary to my experience then it leads me to question the content in general.

Internet facts are a curiosity. As such, I'm not sure what you can do with the information given you in this thread. Apparently I am not an authority. Maybe if I had a website, and had my son-in-law set it up so that Google went right to it, one could cite _my_ information.

And deoreo, carbon tet? You're an animal!:thumbsup:


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Berkeley Mike said:


> And deoreo, carbon tet? You're an animal!:thumbsup:


LOL...yeah that was a looong time ago, around 1979. I think it was outlawed at that time, but my grandfather, a tool and die maker for GM, had a jug of the stuff and gave me a little metal tin of it...good lord that stuff was amazing as a degreaser, but obviously pretty vile as well. :nono:

I'll stick to Simple Green


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

The real dangerous stuff worked really well. That was another time though. I recall a political cartoon at the time, called Grin and Bear It. To fat-cat types in vested suits smoking big cigars stand in front of a window with smokestacks belching fumes into the air. The caption read “personally, I like my air with will bite to it.” 

That said, between the asbestos and the solvents, dads lungs weren't his strongest feature as he aged. I still love Chemtool for the really nasty stuff, though.


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## Cobra Driver (Jun 2, 2011)

Moozh said:


> Sometimes I get to reading threads around here and have to pause, shake my head and remind myself that we are talking about bicycles....goddam bicycles and not nuclear reactors.


I just had to share...I too like to sit back, read, learn, think, digest all these comments...but yours made me blast a laugh out loud.

I liken these types of discussions to what I call Mental Masturbation.

Thanx for the laugh :thumbsup:


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## nikojan (Jun 18, 2011)

any pressure washers pretty much.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Quicksilver77 said:


> I blow the dust off my bikes with compressed air, then wipe them down with a damp cloth. I never ride in the rain, mud, or wash them off with water.


+100% on that. Here in So Cal, we never have to ride in the rain. That is also how I clean my bike. Although I use a car detailing spray. It gives the bike a little protection. You just have to make sure not to get in on the brakes.


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## PolishExperiment (May 14, 2011)

We love 'hosers' at the shop. No matter how many times it is suggested to them that hosing a bike is detrimental, they keep doing it, and consequently, keep shelling out money for BBs, headsets, hub bearings, and pivot kits on a monthly basis. Not to mention the entertainment factor you get when you open up a BB shell and find mud inside, or do a rear shock service and there is sand in there. So please, keep hosing and/or pressure washing your bikes. Forcing dirt past seals is good for business.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PolishExperiment said:


> We love 'hosers' at the shop. No matter how many times it is suggested to them that hosing a bike is detrimental, they keep doing it, and consequently, keep shelling out money for BBs, headsets, hub bearings, and pivot kits on a monthly basis. Not to mention the entertainment factor you get when you open up a BB shell and find mud inside, or do a rear shock service and there is sand in there. So please, keep hosing and/or pressure washing your bikes. Forcing dirt past seals is good for business.


Sand in a rear shock? Yeah right.


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## manabiker (Jul 18, 2010)

Its funny how things get exagerated,, you shouldn't wash your bike, LOL or ride it in the rain/snow/ice either, don't ride through water crossings, get off your bike, walk it through, don't ride it in the mud either, well I may as well leave mine at the shop, keep my money in the bank,(I live in Michigan, it rains, snows etc) I've washed Motorcross motorcycles, road bikes, vintage motorcycles for 40+ years in quarter car washes, and with a hose,(never a water/hose/pressure wash problem) I live in Michigan it rains, mud/snow/ice is in the trails/tracks/roads, (I ice raced too with dirt bikes, motocross, flat track, scrambles, Hare Scrambles in snow/mud/water) water/snow is in the road too, the bikes gets dirty I wash them, I've never had a problem from washing my bicycles with a hose, I don't wash bicycles at the quarter car wash, no reason to, I can get them clean with a hose. When washing my mountain bikes with a hose, I just use common sense, when you wash your bike or any other maintanence, you should make sure you have common sense, its hard to come by, I think we were all born with it, after that, I'm not sure what happens to it !! LOL
Keep the shinny side up, if you don't wash it keep the cleanest side up.. Happy Trails !!!!


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## DeepseaDebo (Oct 20, 2009)

> it says to never use solvents;
> 
> first of all; the finish line orange de greaser is organic


we are all aware that water is a solvent right? and acetone is organic should i use that. this is the most absurd thread ever and i am glad i can partake. so to recap

no water under pressure
no compressed air to dry
only use lint free towels on the bike
if it is organic it means it is safe to use

so we can use an eye dropper to apply a liquid that has no ability to dissolve anything as long as it is organic and has the right PH for our bicycle sensitive bottom. and don't put your bike on a roof rack if it is wet because that is similar to using compressed air to dry it.

fact no matter how you clean the chain AFTER the ride the dirt was on it DURING the ride. choose the proper lube and accept the fact that things wear out and just need to be replaced.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

It's a bike, Life is to short to waste cleaning and detailing it, do the min required to keep it running smooth and ride the thing!!

All the cleaning fancy stuff, which will extend your chain / cassette / rings life by a few rides, added up costs more than the chain / cassette / rings anyway, huge false economy for very little benefit.


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## DeepseaDebo (Oct 20, 2009)

> All the cleaning fancy stuff, which will extend your chain / cassette / rings life by a few rides, added up costs more than the chain / cassette / rings anyway, huge false economy for very little benefit.


beautifully put.


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## wrek (Jun 17, 2011)

I wipe my bikes down with a damp and then dry shop towel. Dab the chain and re-lube if I ride through lots of water and or mud.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I actually have a small bottle of chain oil with me and on long / wet rides if it starts to get a bit noisy I'll slap some oil on her, this seems to extend my chain life hugely and mainly haven't got the draggy feeling for 1/2 of the ride.


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## Nare (Jul 6, 2011)

Turveyd said:


> It's a bike, Life is to short to waste cleaning and detailing it, do the min required to keep it running smooth and ride the thing!!
> 
> All the cleaning fancy stuff, which will extend your chain / cassette / rings life by a few rides, added up costs more than the chain / cassette / rings anyway, huge false economy for very little benefit.


Totally agree!!!


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> It's a bike, Life is to short to waste cleaning and detailing it, do the min required to keep it running smooth and ride the thing!!
> 
> All the cleaning fancy stuff, which will extend your chain / cassette / rings life by a few rides, added up costs more than the chain / cassette / rings anyway, huge false economy for very little benefit.


I disagree. It just doesn't match my experience with teams of bikes over the years. That said, there are simply guys who do not like to clean them for any number of reasons.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

sopwithcamel said:


> Oh here is number 4.
> 
> 4) Don't use Armor All on tires. It makes them slippery


It also sheds mud like nobodies business. Used in the right application it's awesome.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

jeffw-13 said:


> Dont use car wash soap with wax in it. It will ruin your brakes.QUOTE]
> 
> Don't use soap that has wax in it, problem solved.


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## koneco (Oct 25, 2009)

If my bike comes back from the trails dirty as ****, I just get the solids off with a garden hose real quick, then wipe down the chain and lube. Usually I don't bother, since there's a garage for it to live in. My bike is an aluminum FS, so ya knows. I wouldn't do this with a steely.


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## Crazydad (Jun 30, 2011)

I just wipe the bike down every now and then and clean the drive train after about 5 rides, depending on how dusty it is. Right now we are in a drought so the trails are incredibly dusty so I am cleaning the drive train a little more frequently. 

For chain cleaning I have always just used a sponge with palmolive dish soap. Put the soap on the sponge, run the chain through it a few times until you notice no more grease is coming off. Take a brush and clean the gears/derailleurs with the same soap. Rinse with the hose (no pressure) and let it dry for about 10 minutes then lube it. Simple, easy, and cheap.


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## fireman1291 (Mar 10, 2007)

wrek said:


> I wipe my bikes down with a damp and then dry shop towel. Dab the chain and re-lube if I ride through lots of water and or mud.


This:thumbsup:


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

koneco said:


> If my bike comes back from the trails dirty as ****, I just get the solids off with a garden hose real quick, then wipe down the chain and lube. Usually I don't bother, since there's a garage for it to live in. My bike is an aluminum FS, so ya knows. I wouldn't do this with a steely.


I've got a steely, don't worry about steel frames, 1) there cheap and 2) they'll take years to rust under normal useage, my steel racer from when I was 14 with zero maintenance which was 2nd hand then lasted 25years only recently getting abit rusty and being binned, modern steel is likely much better to.

Drop it in salt water with a electric current and you might have a issue, but nah there fine.


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## daisycutter (Sep 18, 2005)

Diluted simple green in a spray bottle. With a garden hose using a gentle stream of water, wet down the bike, staying away from bearings. Then spray simple green all over the bike and wait 5 mins. Finally a garden hose using a gentle stream of water rinse the bike. Done


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Who the **** resurrected this thread?


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> I disagree. It just doesn't match my experience with teams of bikes over the years. That said, there are simply guys who do not like to clean them for any number of reasons.


one person's minimum is another person's pita not gonna happen. To remove the chain and go at with a toothbrush seems silly, but to dry clean after every ride and wash every 3rd or 4th seems reasonable. The absolute minimum is starting a ride with as much grunge out of the chain as possible because doing that will add a lot more than 2 or 3 rides to the components lifespan i would guess


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## tarUringeKedencast (Jul 8, 2011)

*mobilna reklama w internecie*

Hello

I am new here, greetz folks !


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## old'skool (Jul 2, 2011)

This reminds me, I'm almost out of WD-40.

*runs*


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## Greg Bell (Jul 10, 2011)

I am God-awful lazy about washing my cheapo Trek. Hopefully I will be smarter about my Yeti.


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## Justin Credible (May 10, 2011)

> 4) Don't use Armor All on tires. It makes them slippery


Who does this??? that's silly. I washed my bike everytime I rode it, when it was new. Now only if it is really dirty. I ride in mud often, but lately it has been dry.


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## racerick (Mar 15, 2009)

some people just dont give a **** about cleaning their bikes and justify it by saying its not necessary and those who do are just wasting their time.

i say; to each their own


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## Demojohnny (Jul 10, 2011)

New to this world, tried to find a good place to post this but guess this is a result of washing.

Picked up a 2006 enduro elite which is in great condition except for rust on the end of the brake cables and on the scvrews on the rotors etc. basically anywhere exposed bare metal.

don't think the previous owner dried the bike or sprayed it with a water repelent.

anyway what recomendations do you have to bring these bits back up to being shiny metal again.

ps love the bike and just want to give it the tlc it deserves to be as in good a condition as possible.


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## Steve121 (Mar 24, 2010)

Demojohnny said:


> New to this world, tried to find a good place to post this but guess this is a result of washing.
> 
> Picked up a 2006 enduro elite which is in great condition except for rust on the end of the brake cables and on the scvrews on the rotors etc. basically anywhere exposed bare metal.
> 
> ...


Acid for car mags.Spray the parts with this until they are back to shape.Works like a charm.


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## old'skool (Jul 2, 2011)

> anyway what recomendations do you have to bring these bits back up to being shiny metal again.


Scotchbrite or steel wool and some elbow grease....


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