# Another Heart Rate question.



## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

I came here to ask, and now I am especially inspired after reading this thread:









Heartrate question - Untrained -> Trained


I'm 49.5 years old, and spent most of the pandemic sitting on my ass doing nothing. I'm 6'3 and 203lbs. I quit my 1-2 pack per week on\off smoking finally for good in dec 21. I've put in a solid 6 weeks of 7-10 hours of Z2 or MAF style base building + strength training. I can set my treadmill to...




www.mtbr.com





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I was concerned about my heart rate #, but after reading that thread, seems NBD. I have a second issue though:



So, when I start climbing (bike or hike), my HR shoots up dramatically to ~ 10 bpm below where my legs have to stop. (180-185, if it matters). What ends up happening, is I start feeling like crap. My heart is pounding, I can feel a metallic taste in my mouth sometimes, I get stomache aches, and generally malaisy. The stomachaches are the worst. This starts from 5-10 min after hard exertion starts and lasts anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour or more. Those hour-or-more days suck.

The thing is, after about an hour, my body calms down. No more feeling bad. I keep pushing as hard, but its like I'm warmed up or something. I am GTG and feeling great for the rest of my hike or ride, until my legs give out from exhaustion. including pushing hard.

This last trip, I kept monitoring my HR, and to my surprise I was still often floating at that 180-185 level, though much more fluctuation at that point. I previously assumed my HR was dropping down alot, but no. It's the same level that it was at when I was feeling like crap.

I have memories of this happening when I was in high school 25 years ago.

I assumed it was cause I was in bad shape, but I'm in better shape now than I have been in for more than 15 years. I'm not confident that more training is going to solve this.

But I REALLY want to shortcut or eliminate that part of exertion where I feel like crap. Any ideas how I can do that?


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## LVLBTY (Jul 15, 2020)

You need to take a little time to warm up the body. Plan your ride so climbs start to happen about 10 minutes into the ride and don't make that climb one of the hardest. Usually takes me 10 - 15 minutes before I can really start to push it more without feeling like I'm killing my body.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

High heart rate isn't necessarily a problem, individuals vary and one persons high is another's average.

Heart rate data can be useful to track cardiac drift (a measure of fitness) and to see how fast your hr falls after backing off of hard efforts (also a measure of fitness)

That said you describe some pretty weird symptoms so probably worth a visit to the Dr. Hour long stomach aches and instantly hitting max hr aren't normal at all ime. 

What's your average hr during rides?


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Not sure about average. I was just doing spot checks for my last hike which "felt" as rough as I like to ride (this hike was over 4000 ft elevation gain over 5.1 miles)

Spot checks were 160-195 every time I looked. 195 was rare tho. most common was 175-180. When I stopped for a snack break HR would drop quickly to the 125-140 range.

This is not real data analysis, just spot checks. As I said, after that first 30 min to hour of misery I feel spectacular.

warm up time is not always up to me, this last trail was 45% grade at the beginning (steep stairs). MTB I do often get more chance to warm up since there is a parking lot, but UC starts going up right out of the gate...

any recommendation LVLBTY about how much to warm up? I'm not/can't burn 30 minutes at the trail head doing jumping jacks before setting off....you say maybe 10-15 min? any suggestion on good warmups? stretches won't do it, I do know that...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Whiterabbitt said:


> any recommendation LVLBTY about how much to warm up? I'm not/can't burn 30 minutes at the trail head doing jumping jacks before setting off....you say maybe 10-15 min? any suggestion on good warmups? stretches won't do it, I do know that...



Warmup for me (and most others) is stating out easy and gradually ramping it up as you feel better. 20 minutes of mostly easy riding is about right before really hitting it hard.


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## LVLBTY (Jul 15, 2020)

J.B. Weld said:


> Warmup for me (and most others) is stating out easy and gradually ramping it up as you feel better. 20 minutes of mostly easy riding is about right before really hitting it hard.


^^^ This ^^^^


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## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> Warmup for me (and most others) is stating out easy and gradually ramping it up as you feel better. 20 minutes of mostly easy riding is about right before really hitting it hard.


Must be nice. I live in basin and range topography, pretty much every ride here starts out with a stiff climb right out of the trailhead. My "warmup" consists of a set of laps around the parking lot.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Yootah said:


> Must be nice. I live in basin and range topography, pretty much every ride here starts out with a stiff climb right out of the trailhead. My "warmup" consists of a set of laps around the parking lot.




Usually you can gear your bike so you don't have to redline on climbs if you don't want to. Steep climbs right out of the gate are a drag though.


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## Blurbikerider (Mar 12, 2011)

At 49 and just starting to get fit you should certainly take 20 minutes or more to warm up before doing hard efforts. What you eat during or before the ride may be making you feel sick . I'v read it can take 2 yers for your lungs to turn back pink and healthy after quitting smoking who know what else in your body needs time to repair . Keep at it though sounds like your on the right track


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

You need to learn how to back off the gas just before you hit that threshold of not feeling good. Recover and repeat. 

I also have always had a problem with going too hard right out of the gate, and not warming up enough. I'm always feeling good and raring to go.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

If you're tasting copper, you're pushing yourself too hard, certainly for training or fun. Even doing max HR intervals. Back off on your intensity and warm up.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

I agree with others. You're pushing it too hard right out of the gate. That metallic taste in your mouth is likely breakdown of blood from pulmonary edema caused by your heart and lungs not being able to keep up. SLOW DOWN at the beginning and let your body warm up a bit. As you build better fitness, you'll be able to push harder. You're asking for a heart attack if you keep this up.


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

Whiterabbitt said:


> But I REALLY want to shortcut or eliminate that part of exertion where I feel like crap. Any ideas how I can do that?


You need to do a warmup. If you hammer down right from the trailhead... this is how you will always feel. Ever been to any kind of bike race? Noticed people warming up on trainers or riding around before the race...? They're opening their legs up so they don't feel like crap once the race starts. All the people who peel out and bonk 10min in... didn't warmup.

Trail rides I just start out slow and increase my efforts, about 30mins in I feel good and will do my intervals.

Race day, I do a structured 30min warmup with progressive efforts/recovery periods and short sprints to open the legs up.


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## Swolie74 (11 mo ago)

Why not just warm up at home on an exercise bike or something similar prior to leaving for the trail head? Dont have an exercise bike or similar cardio equipment? bodyweight exercises like mountain climbers, burpees, jumping jacks.. etc.. you can put together a nice lil circuit pretty easy so that way you won't look strange doing it all at the trail head


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> High heart rate isn't necessarily a problem, individuals vary and one persons high is another's average.
> 
> Heart rate data can be useful to track cardiac drift (a measure of fitness) and to see how fast your hr falls after backing off of hard efforts (also a measure of fitness)
> 
> ...


This. Max heart rate is very individual, going on 50 and my max is about 188 which puts me 1 standard deviation out from predicted (so not anything radical). The other symptoms you describe merit a visit and discussion with your doctor. It may be nothing, it may be an important warning of something bigger. Until then, take it easier, keep yourself below 175 where you aren’t having symptoms.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> Usually you can gear your bike so you don't have to redline on climbs if you don't want to. Steep climbs right out of the gate are a drag though.


I have big climbs right at the start of my ride. I just ride slower and give myself about 10 minutes of keeping my HR below 80% of max before cranking hard. There is no shame in pushing/hike a bike if needed to warm up.


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## GoldenKnightMTB (11 mo ago)

I agree that you need to take it easier. You are not in your 20s and 30s any longer. How about also going to the gym to build your cardiovascular system up.

I'm 43 and ride one time a week, I get light headed and rest, then continue on. I think its ok to take it easy and ride at your body's ability level. 

Also, do you monitor your blood pressure? I check mine from time to time, its a good reminder to eat healthy, reduce your salt intake, and to monitor your weight.


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## wolfmw (Dec 18, 2020)

Several of the trails I regularly ride start with pretty brutally steep climbs, warmup makes a huge difference! Steady ramp-up doesn't really do it for me, feels too inefficient and doesn't seem to really prepare me for the first hard effort. 

I like to ride easy on the road for a few minutes, keep HR in aerobic range. After about 5 min, I start a series of sprints or short climbs that only last until I start to feel lactate "burn", then immediately back off and keep an easy spin until HR comes down. Repeat a few times, then another few minutes of easy spin. Total of about 15 min is usually good enough for me. Sometimes I'll add in 5 min or so at a tempo level of effort, but usually skip that and just try to keep effort reasonable on the first few minutes of the trail.

I sometime park a little ways from the trailhead and warm up on the ride to the trail.


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

Most of our local rides start with pretty solid climbs. I just go slow to warm up. The first 10 minutes I'm in my easiest gear just cruising along. Then I bump it up just a bit. By 20 minutes or so I can hit my cruising speed. This also depends on hydration and feeding.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

There's a few local rides where you're gonna HAB at the start. Built in warmups


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Whiterabbitt said:


> So, when I start climbing (bike or hike), my HR shoots up dramatically to ~ 10 bpm below where my legs have to stop. (180-185, if it matters). What ends up happening, is I start feeling like crap. My heart is pounding, I can feel a metallic taste in my mouth sometimes, I get stomache aches, and generally malaisy. The stomachaches are the worst. This starts from 5-10 min after hard exertion starts and lasts anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour or more. Those hour-or-more days suck.


This sounds kinda serious.

First off: You should make sure that your heart rate monitor is is recording an actual, regular heart beat "rate" and that it's not confused by electrical signals from a heart going apesh!t. Do NOT let a heart rate monitor mistake tachycardia for arythmia, which can be deadly. Also, maybe keep your phone away from your HR sender.
Second: weird tachycardias have all sorts of potential causes and you should get an actshual cardiologist to strap you into either an ECG or a stress test and get that engine checked out.
Thirdly: A lifetime of smoking does permanent damage to lungs and heart. It's awesome you quit, but at your age, and despite all of the recovery you'll make, things ain't ever going "back to normal."
Fourth, Fifthly, and sixly: See a cardiologist. Maybe he'll tell you "Drink more electrolytes". Maybe he'll tell you, "Get your affairs in order". Either way, you'll have heard it from an expert.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Hey guys, he's got a link to another thread, started by another person. I'm not sure that the OP smoked from his initial post.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Another vote for attempting to take it easy for the first bit of a ride, and that it takes a bit to really be able "get after it" (for me at least.

My local trails have some decent steep climbing in the first mile of trail (20-30% grades in spots). I always feel sluggish on those parts, and its pretty easy to blow up your ride right then and there. Because of that, I intentionally keep away from my redline, and do what I can to try to soft pedal it in my bailout gear in that area.

If you can't kind of "putter" along at a reasonable 140-160hr right at the beginning of the ride when you're fresh, even in your lowest gear, maybe consider dropping a chainring size? 

Again, at my local there is a climb trail that you essentially have to ride every time you want to do a fun trail, so it gets a couple laps every time I am there. I've lately taken to treating it as a Zone 4/5 interval, as its only 2-4min long. I've noticed that even though I'm hammering it in what feels like a pretty consistent way each time, my first climb of the day is always the slowest. With my second or third laps up the hill usually being my fastest (when I've typically ridden ~20-30min of riding by that point).


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## armyofevilrobots (Oct 4, 2013)

> Spot checks were 160-195 every time I looked. 195 was rare tho. most common was 175-180. When I stopped for a snack break HR would drop quickly to the 125-140 range.


I was diagnosed with Tachycardia when I was younger (used to be able to sustain 200bpm), and I max out at 190 now at age 49 (and no chance of sustaining it for more than a minute).

Go see a doctor and get a holter monitor and go for a ride. We're not indestructable 20-year-olds anymore. It's probably just some mild tachycardia, but it could also be something more serious. The holter will differentiate between "Huh, that seems fast" and "Oh, you've got a dangerous arrhythmia".

And yeah, warmup is way more critical than you think. I do a 5k road spin to the trailhead. It's boring, but everything is ticking along and my rides feel easier, and are definitely faster than without the warmup. It's also a good sanity check for how hard you should push it that day. If you feel like crap on the warmup, don't jump on the first climb like a rabid mountain goat.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Thirdly: A lifetime of smoking does permanent damage to lungs and heart. It's awesome you quit, but at your age, and despite all of the recovery you'll make, things ain't ever going "back to normal."


 

Could get better than norm\al. I've smoked an amazing amount of cigs in my life (over a pack a day for 30 years) and 10 years after quitting I'm feeling great. Very competitive in my age group and can smoke lots of 20 y/o's who have been clean their whole lives. Never underestimate the body's amazing ability to heal itself.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Hi Guys,

A followup. I had a chance to do a similar high impact exercise on Saturday. This time, I watched HR closely, my goal was to hold HR at 150 for the first 30 minutes before hitting the trail hard.

What really ended up happening is I throttled my effort as HR rose, and rather than a 150 bpm hold it was a slow ramp to 180, not reaching 180 until 30 minutes later.

The result was MUCH much better. Slight pounding after 30 minutes as I transitioned into 180+, but short lived and zero impact to how I felt. Then I was GTG for the next 5 hours.

You guys were right, it was a warmup issue. Thank you!

Now I just need to solve the knee issue, 4,800 vertical feet in 5 miles KILLED my knees on the way down, way before I ran out of muscle steam!


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