# E-bike crash death prompts debate over safety on UK roads



## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Looks like the days of carefree ebiking in the EU are slowly coming to an end.https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/14/e-bike-crash-death-prompts-debate-over-safety-on-uk-roads



> When Sakine Cihan died of injuries she sustained in a road collision last month, she was said to be the first pedestrian to be killed by an e-bike in the UK. It is feared that the growing craze for power-assisted cycling means she won't be the last.Cihan was crossing Kingsland High Street in Dalston, east London, when she was struck by a Specialized electric bike. The rider was arrested a day later after he came forward, and then released under investigation.
> The fatal incident just after 5pm on 28 August was captured in CCTV footage. It is not clear from the video that it was anything more than a tragic accident. But it has prompted a debate about whether electric bikes create new safety concerns - or are simply the latest outlet for hostility towards cyclists when motor vehicles remain by far the more dangerous form of transport.
> 
> 
> ...


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

"But he said the health benefits of increased cycling, in whatever form, far outweighed the added risks involved".




I don't consider dying to be a benefit.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

life behind bars said:


> "But he said the health benefits of increased cycling, in whatever form, far outweighed the added risks involved".
> 
> I don't consider dying to be a benefit.


One person died. I'd rather have more people on an e-bike then in cars. It gets cars off the road and it is more exercise then sitting an driving a car.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

"The engines on e-bikes are fitted with a cut-out device to ensure they go no faster than 15.5mph. But it is relatively easy to disable the device to allow the bikes to reach much faster speeds. There is no suggestion that this occurred on the bike involved in Cihan’s death, but the incident has prompted calls for tougher laws."

I know of two incidents in Boulder of pedestrians being seriously injured by people on analog bicycles. I'm sure there have been many more. Should we ban bicycles? 

My wife sustained minor injuries and a ruined front fork from a guy on a skateboard going out of control. She landed on her head and shoulder and it could have been very serious had she not been wearing a helmet. Ban skateboards?


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

What about dockless eScooters? No helmets and tiny wheels, add unskilled users and a bit of alcohol and mayhem ensued........ maybe ban them too?


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Pfft, 8,000 people died in ebike accidents in China last year, get on their level.

https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1001569/china-to-roll-out-stricter-standards-for-electric-bikes

The increase in ebike injuries in the EU will only lead to compuslory insurance and registration, not banning, it's already being bandied about.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

Harryman said:


> Pfft, 8,000 people died in ebike accidents in China last year, get on their level.
> 
> https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1001569/china-to-roll-out-stricter-standards-for-electric-bikes
> 
> The increase in ebike injuries in the EU will only lead to compuslory insurance and registration, not banning, it's already being bandied about.


I do wonder how is insurance and registration supposed to address the issue?
Those two things have not stopped auto deaths.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

93EXCivic said:


> One person died. I'd rather have more people on an e-bike then in cars. It gets cars off the road and it is more exercise then sitting an driving a car.


 How many deaths would be acceptable?


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

KenPsz said:


> I do wonder how is insurance and registration supposed to address the issue?
> Those two things have not stopped auto deaths.


I didn't say they would. Insurance is there to pay bills and settle lawsuits. Registration is tax revenue.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

You can't stop all deaths. 

Sincerely,

Vision Stupid, uhh Zero
& Anakin Skywalker

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

WoodlandHills said:


> What about dockless eScooters? No helmets and tiny wheels, add unskilled users and a bit of alcohol and mayhem ensued........ maybe ban them too?


Maybe; they have been booted from some places. Most people have no clue about speed, they only relate to it in a car so 20mph is s l o w. They don't realize what happens when you hit something solid without a seatbelt and steel cage around you. They should think about it like running as fast as you can into a solid object. Then double or triple the speed.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

Harryman said:


> I didn't say they would. Insurance is there to pay bills and settle lawsuits. Registration is tax revenue.


That's fair enough since that is how I look at those two things as well.
But unfortunately many feel those two items are actual solutions since there government "solutions".


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

life behind bars said:


> How many deaths would be acceptable?


How many deaths are acceptable to heart disease and other causes related to a lifestyle that revolves around a lack of exercise? How many deaths are acceptable as a result of pollution partly due to cars?

I don't think e-bikes belong on trails in the US but your wholesale hate of e-bikes is ridiculous. If people buy them and use them to commute instead of using their cars, I only see that as a good thing.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

life behind bars said:


> How many deaths would be acceptable?


How many deaths do we accept for the privilege of driving? Most people drive cars, probably even you.

I guess it's no secret that I have a few arguments against electric bikes but this sure isn't one of them.


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## mousehunter (Sep 22, 2015)

I am so sick and tired of the current political climate. Common sense is increasingly less common. Personal responsibility is a forgotten concept by a vast majority of the population. Hate is more common than empathy. Where is my handout is far more common than how can I help. Then comes the political terrorism by a small percentage of the population.

This forum is just a microcosm of it. Was warned that endless sphere should be called endless drama. But each sub forum here is pretty much the same. If you don’t ride and love my type of bicycle, then I hate you. Or perhaps the problem is me. My interests are ebikes and fat bikes-not sure which is getting more love. I am sure the mountain and road bikers want to ban fatties as well-or at least convince everyone they are dead so the trend will go away.

How many people are hit by cars and die-honestly why is this even reported outside the community paper. Hell, I bet more people die riding farm tractors hit by cars annually than this. I would not be surprised if surfboards don’t cause more accidents...

About the only think I will kind of agree is punish irresponsible behavior, not the tool that allowed it. Should we ban shoes because people fail to look both ways before stepping into traffic-that is a lot more common than ebike accidents.

How about this, have a suggested maximum speed. If you decide to exceed it, that is your responsibility-along with any damage that exceeding causes. Take responsibility, but don’t blanket ban something 10s or 100s of thousands use because someone lacks common sense,


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

mousehunter said:


> I am so sick and tired of the current political climate. ,


I'm sick and tired of people who are so wildly oversensitive that they start crying 'hate' anytime someone voices any sort of disagreement with them. Ahem...


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> How many deaths do we accept for the privilege of driving? Most people drive cars, probably even you.
> 
> I guess it's no secret that I have a few arguments against electric bikes but this sure isn't one of them.


There's recourse when someone is killed by an automobile. I would venture a guess that exactly zero e-motorbike riders carry any sort of insurance.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

life behind bars said:


> There's recourse when someone is killed by an automobile. I would venture a guess that exactly zero e-motorbike riders carry any sort of insurance.


Most e-bikes have a cut off speed much lower then people can go on regular road bikes. What kind of recourse is there if a biker runs over someone while the biker is on a regular road bike?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

life behind bars said:


> There's recourse when someone is killed by an automobile. I would venture a guess that exactly zero e-motorbike riders carry any sort of insurance.


I disagree, drivers are rarely charged with anything other than a minor misdemeanor when a cyclist gets hit. Usually it's the cyclists fault, officially that is.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

93EXCivic said:


> Most e-bikes have a cut off speed much lower then people can go on regular road bikes. What kind of recourse is there if a biker runs over someone while the biker is on a regular road bike?


Well they are heavier and the average rider can travel faster on one than they could on a bicycle.

As mentioned though it's pretty much a non issue as far as I'm concerned.


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## mousehunter (Sep 22, 2015)

I recall when I lived in Austin a female drunk driver ran over and killed a bicyclist. Her punishment was 2 years probation in which she had to visit the site of the accident once a month. It was almost like they wanted to congratulate her.

I also knew a guy who got hit by a car. Rather than deal with the driver the cop focused in harassing the bicyclist (who had a concussion), meanwhile someone stole the bike...

i pretty much gave up road riding because of the anti-bike hate in Austin. Was intentionally ran off the road once and barely avoided it a second time. People thought using a car as a weapon was funny.
—-
Now Austin has dockless e-scooters. Seems like Karma


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

93EXCivic said:


> Most e-bikes have a cut off speed much lower then people can go on regular road bikes. What kind of recourse is there if a biker runs over someone while the biker is on a regular road bike?


There was that guy if SF that killed a guy and was convicted of a felony, and I think he's not the only one.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

nobody has ever been killed by a person on a non-e bicycle, but now one person was killed by an ebike. ergo ban/license/insure all ebikes. the logic of our knee jerk society

meanwhile, 10 billion people doing shjt, pulling on the slot machines of life .. and then surprised and alarmed when someone somewhere hits a jackpot.

meanwhile 800lb motorcycles and 5000lb cars have actually different physics than an ebike. but no, they are exactly the same, say the kneejerkers


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> I'm sick and tired of people who are so wildly oversensitive that they start crying 'hate' anytime someone voices any sort of disagreement with them. Ahem...


THIS.

1000 times THIS.

Dear EVERYONE. Just because someone has a different opinion about a subject than you do in no way means they are a "hater".

I might just start deleting every single post where someone cries hater because they don't want to try and reason with differing opinions.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Klurejr said:


> THIS.
> 
> 1000 times THIS.
> 
> ...


I did that when I was moderating. It really helped cut down the drama queen action IMO.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

It seems as though cycling related accidents as a whole involving pedestrians is on the rise. Bodes ill for cyclists. I can't imagine it getting better with ebikes.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

This was a very tragic event and should be looked at as such. More accidents involving cyclist will occur as more people look for alternative options to cars. 

This call for insurance good lord the hall monitor is strong in many it seems if you think the government is the solution to these problems. You complain that rangers/le don't have the time or resources to check for watt compliance but you want them to validate insurance? :madman:


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

KenPsz said:


> This call for insurance good lord the hall monitor is strong in many it seems if you think the government is the solution to these problems. You complain that rangers/le don't have the time or resources to check for watt compliance but you want them to validate insurance? :madman:


Who is calling for insurance?

Rangers validating insurance on the road? What?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

life behind bars said:


> There's recourse when someone is killed by an automobile. I would venture a guess that exactly zero e-motorbike riders carry any sort of insurance.


If the motor vehicle in question requires a license to operate, then motor vehicle insurance is required in order to get the license. IE: a car or motorcycle.

If the motor vehicle does not legally require a license (for example a riding lawnmower), then the personal liability section of one's homeowners or renters policy covers any injury or property damage caused by the vehicle. Same coverage as if you hit a pedestrian with your human powered bicycle or your weed whacker throws a rock that puts someone's eye out.

People who don't purchase personal liability insurance are socially irresponsible. Such coverage is available without any homeowner's/renters property coverage attached as well. We are responsible for our actions. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it; same can be said for (in)decisions surrounding social responsibilities.
=sParty


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

Harryman said:


> Who is calling for insurance?
> 
> Rangers validating insurance on the road? What?


One of Life Behinds Bars posts (I have that posters on ignore but you can see it above)

I also had LE (aka law enforcement) listed


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

Sparticus said:


> Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it; same can be said for (in)decisions surrounding social responsibilities.
> =sParty


This statement is only true if you are not LE.

But I agree with you stance on we all should be responsible for what we do.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

Klurejr said:


> THIS.
> 
> 1000 times THIS.
> 
> ...


Well since we are totally off topic (by a moderator no less) you know what I hate? People that come to a forum that is on a particular topic looking to bash that topic and the people that support it.

Then those people that want to "dish it out but not take it" get all upset about being labeled.

There is term for those types I believe it is snowflake.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

KenPsz said:


> Well since we are totally off topic (by a moderator no less) you know what I hate? People that come to a forum that is on a particular topic looking to bash that topic and the people that support it.
> 
> Then those people that want to "dish it out but not take it" get all upset about being labeled.
> 
> There is term for those types I believe it is snowflake.


So what do we label someone with no clue as to what they're talking about that comes on and starts mislabeling and insulting people who try to educate them?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

KenPsz said:


> Well since we are totally off topic (by a moderator no less) you know what I hate? People that come to a forum that is on a particular topic looking to bash that topic and the people that support it.
> 
> Then those people that want to "dish it out but not take it" get all upset about being labeled.
> 
> There is term for those types I believe it is snowflake.


Several times you've accused me of bashing electric bikes when I wasn't. Once I said something to the effect of "an ebike has a motor so technically it is a motorbike" and you came at me with some rant about ebikes being nothing at all like gas powered motorcycles, which had nothing to do with what I was saying. This sort of thing seems to happen a lot.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

KenPsz said:


> This statement is only true if you are not LE.
> 
> But I agree with you stance on we all should be responsible for what we do.


What's "LE?" Thx.
=sParty


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> What's "LE?" Thx.
> =sParty


Law Enforcement


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slapheadmofo said:


> Law Enforcement


Thanks, shmf.

As for KenPsz's comment, I could argue the point, but what's the point. Seems there are no open minds in the e-bike forum.
=sParty


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

KenPsz said:


> Well since we are totally off topic (by a moderator no less) you know what I hate? People that come to a forum that is on a particular topic looking to bash that topic and the people that support it.
> 
> Then those people that want to "dish it out but not take it" get all upset about being labeled.
> 
> There is term for those types I believe it is snowflake.


So, we can't disagree wth you without being labeled?

Why is it every time I hear someone say snowflake, I immediately think "This guy is a total pu$$." ?


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## mousehunter (Sep 22, 2015)

There are times and places for civilly expressing disagreements. Going into someone else’s church, disrupting the service, and fighting with the parishioners over their choice of religion and denomination is not one of them. Perhaps you have the right to do it, but it does not make it the proper course of action.

If I want to bash skinny tire analog bicycles, it is fine on Reddit, maybe it is ok on this forums general discussion, but it would be simply disrupting and rude to do it in the road bike forum. Perhaps it is best just to ignore poor behavior, but looking him w a generation of special snowflakes act-perhaps society did that a bit to much.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

93EXCivic said:


> Most e-bikes have a cut off speed much lower then people can go on regular road bikes. What kind of recourse is there if a biker runs over someone while the biker is on a regular road bike?


The operator is at fault regardless of what is powering his or her bicycle. Plenty of non-ebike road cyclists (and bikeshare users!) are total jackwads that do incredibly stupid things.

My main issue with e-bikes is how easily the cut off speed can be circumvented. When traveling at higher speeds on hot-rodded ebikes (that can go 22+ MPH), the margin for error goes down and the amount of damage they can inflict upon others (cyclists or pedestrians) goes up.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

I get the impression that there's multiple conservative viewpoints here, fighting each other.

I imagine a progressive would be pointing out how changes to infrastructure and zoning laws could improve the situation for all, among many other possible solutions. Most of these solutions require teamwork and general consensus, because of the scale and cost, and a progressive would look to share the cost with those who won't benefit as much as certain people would, who may object. xD

If only there were some way to "kickstart" these solutions, more voluntarily...

Bicycle-pedestrian collisions seemingly got bicycles banned on sidewalks in some places. There's some real fear of loss here, and the issue is what people are identifying as a problem in order to conserve their current lifestyle (with minimal extra effort, such as publicly discriminating).


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

edubfromktown said:


> My main issue with e-bikes is how easily the cut off speed can be circumvented. When traveling at higher speeds on hot-rodded ebikes (that can go 22+ MPH), the margin for error goes down and the amount of damage they can inflict upon others (cyclists or pedestrians) goes up.


Sure but plenty of people operate non road legal dirt bikes and ATVs on the road. Tons of people have vehicles with non road legal mods on them.

Just make riding e-bikes above a certain power (modified or not) require a license and punish those caught violating that rule much like plenty of other things are treated.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

93EXCivic said:


> Sure but plenty of people operate non road legal dirt bikes and ATVs on the road. Tons of people have vehicles with non road legal mods on them.
> 
> Just make riding e-bikes above a certain power (modified or not) require a license and punish those caught violating that rule much like plenty of other things are treated.


I agree with what you have here.

Since this notion of ebikes MUST meet some 100% compliance and non-modification barrier that nothing else in society has to meet is unrealistic.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

93EXCivic said:


> Sure but plenty of people operate non road legal dirt bikes and ATVs on the road. Tons of people have vehicles with non road legal mods on them.
> 
> Just make riding e-bikes above a certain power (modified or not) require a license and punish those caught violating that rule much like plenty of other things are treated.


Or just continue to exclude motorized vehicles of all kinds from non-motorized trails.


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

93EXCivic said:


> Tons of people have vehicles with non road legal mods on them.


That's an apples and angle grinders comparison.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

sfgiantsfan said:


> So, we can't disagree wth you without being labeled?
> 
> Why is it every time I hear someone say snowflake, I immediately think "This guy is a total pu$$." ?


Disagree all you want but you will reap what you sow when you come into a forum that attracts people that like the topic and then start to bash that topic and the people that like it.

But I do enjoy just how some folks panties get all in a twist when they get called on their attitude.

Think what you want about me I really don't care this is an anonymous internet forum and your opinion of me really means nothing. But nice try at an insult though, total fail but nice try snowflake (could not help myself).


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> Several times you've accused me of bashing electric bikes when I wasn't. Once I said something to the effect of "an ebike has a motor so technically it is a motorbike" and you came at me with some rant about ebikes being nothing at all like gas powered motorcycles, which had nothing to do with what I was saying. This sort of thing seems to happen a lot.


I have been over this more than once with you and even apologized, if you want to carry the chip on your shoulder that is your right to do so. When read motorbike I see motorcycle since motorbike is not a term used very often, so that is my bad.

Sorry but ebikes are not motorbike and you stating so is just looking for an argument. For sales a ebike under 750watts is Federally legally considered a bike, period. Now if you want to say over 750watts is a motorbike then we have agreement, but you seem to want a blanket term.


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

KenPsz said:


> Think what you want about me I really don't care this is an anonymous internet forum and your opinion of me really means nothing.


You claim that his opinion of you means nothing yet you cared enough about his opinion to respond and call him names.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

og-mtb said:


> You claim that his opinion of you means nothing yet you cared enough about his opinion to respond and call him names.


I said I could not help myself call it trolling if you want.

Look I came to this forum and posted links and stories on the topic of the forum. To only see those threads become a **** show of name calling and dramatic claims about ebikes and ebikes users. So if peoples feelings are getting hurt for being called out for derailing threads then they can head for the "safe spaces" of other forums.

Hell threads like this one violate the stated rules for the forum and are posted just to pick a fit with those that like ebikes.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

93EXCivic said:


> Sure but plenty of people operate non road legal dirt bikes and ATVs on the road. Tons of people have vehicles with non road legal mods on them.
> 
> Just make riding e-bikes above a certain power (modified or not) require a license and punish those caught violating that rule much like plenty of other things are treated.


Last time I checked, there is a police force that is paid to enforce the rules and regs on the road. In a lot of places, including where I live, rangers can't even ticket.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Not only are these guys calling for allowing motorized vehicles on our trails ridden by people that have no idea about trail etiquette, but they also want more police on the trails to bust the guys that don’t ride the same motorized vehicles that they do. Sounds fun, can’t wait.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> I'm sick and tired of people who are so wildly oversensitive that they start crying 'hate' anytime someone voices any sort of disagreement with them. Ahem...


Hate now covers from mild annoyance to murderous rage.

Get with the times, yo!


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

ninjichor said:


> I get the impression that there's multiple conservative viewpoints here, fighting each other.
> 
> I imagine a progressive would be pointing out how changes to infrastructure and zoning laws could improve the situation for all, among many other possible solutions. Most of these solutions require teamwork and general consensus, because of the scale and cost, and a progressive would look to share the cost with those who won't benefit as much as certain people would, who may object. xD
> 
> ...


We have some stupid ideas about sharing space in the US, both urban and otherwise. I was visiting family in Germany some years ago... as we were walking through Hamburg I was warned to stay off the bike path and if I got hit it would be my fault for being in the bike path. Seemed like a good idea.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

davec113 said:


> We have some stupid ideas about sharing space in the US, both urban and otherwise. I was visiting family in Germany some years ago... as we were walking through Hamburg I was warned to stay off the bike path and if I got hit it would be my fault for being in the bike path. Seemed like a good idea.


Unfortunately sidewalks aren't bike paths and neither are multi-use trails. There are few dedicated bike paths that I've seen and those run along the same streets that are shared by cars.


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

life behind bars said:


> How many deaths would be acceptable?


Apparently as many as 5381 are acceptable, that is how many pedestrians were killed by cars in EU last year, and they still have cars.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

Analog Bicycle? WTF. It is called a bicycle, it has been called that for more years than any of us have been alive.

I personally know a young man who hit a elderly man on a hill with his bicycle. Killed the old guy, very tragic for everyone. It doesn't matter who is on what, somebody died.

My cycling organization used to give classes on how to commute safely. They showed you how to not get hit. I guess they should revamp their course as to not hit someone. If you commute then you know how to avoid car doors so it's a no brainer. The problem is when a non cyclist gets a ebike to commute and thinks that people respect them like they are in a auto. The same discussion can be said about motor cycles. That's why you see so many middle aged Harley riders hitting the deck.

If ebikes ever really become popular for commuting the tax hungry Government will find a way to make up for lost revenue. If you really like your ebike then why do you want it to become popular? This is what happened to mountain bikes and look at the situation now? If it was still a fringe sport there wouldn't be any trail restrictions.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

life behind bars said:


> Or just continue to exclude motorized vehicles of all kinds from non-motorized trails.





Harryman said:


> Last time I checked, there is a police force that is paid to enforce the rules and regs on the road. In a lot of places, including where I live, rangers can't even ticket.


I thought we were talking about e-bikes on the road since that is where the accident in the OP occurred.

I am not arguing for e-bikes on trails and I don't think they belong due to the land access issue in the US.



og-mtb said:


> That's an apples and angle grinders comparison.


Not completely. My argument was that e-bikes on the road should require a license above a certain power/speed and modifying them in such a way to go around these rules should result in a ticket like with certain modifications to cars/motorbikes/etc. It obviously won't stop it but it is how many other things are handled.

Once again I am talking only about for road use not trail use.


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## windsurfdog (Apr 5, 2018)

Funny...actually not funny...how these types of topics devolve into the same drivel usually driven by the same individuals. Get about 20 posts in and then the SOS...on to another thread.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rlee said:


> If you really like your ebike then why do you want it to become popular? This is what happened to mountain bikes and look at the situation now? If it was still a fringe sport there wouldn't be any trail restrictions.


I'd say the popularity of mountain biking has increased riding opportunities over the years, at least where I'm at. I still consider mountain biking to be a fringe sport though and I like it that way.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Not only are these guys calling for allowing motorized vehicles on our trails ridden by people that have no idea about trail etiquette, but they also want more police on the trails to bust the guys that don't ride the same motorized vehicles that they do. Sounds fun, can't wait.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Who is calling for that? If you were talking about me, I was talking about e-bikes for road use since that is where the accident in the OP happened.

That is where I think e-bikes in the US belong on the road or trails for motorized vehicles.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

KenPsz said:


> Well since we are totally off topic (by a moderator no less) you know what I hate? People that come to a forum that is on a particular topic looking to bash that topic and the people that support it.
> 
> Then those people that want to "dish it out but not take it" get all upset about being labeled.
> 
> There is term for those types I believe it is snowflake.


you are starting to cross the line now and have no idea how to communicate without resorting to name calling, such as using the term snowflake. Why don't you take a break from MTBR for a while until you learn how to argue points without calling names..... Name calling is one of the rules here I am happy to enforce.

Thread closed.


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