# Feeling too far forward on my bike, what can i do to counter this?



## omnom (Mar 6, 2016)

Hi all,

I'm 5"5 (165cm), my legs is really short compared to my upper.

Im currently running a 2015 NS Snabb T sized S with a 140mm fork (been thinking of swapping to a 160mm) and shock. 740mm bars with a 50mm stem. For the bars, im using a nukeproof warhead bar, iirc its the one with the lowest rise 20mm(?).

I always feel that im leaning too fsr forward when im going downhill in attack position. I am wondering what parts i can try to change to help me counter this. 

But before change any parts, i was wondering what tweaks i can do on my bike. Current i am thinking of tilting my brake levers to be more parallel to the ground. 

Thank you!


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Tilting your brake levers will change the pressure on your wrists. You probably don't want a lot of bend in your wrists. My recommendation would be to make sure your handlebar is about level with your seat. Yours might be a little bit too low in relation to your seat. The other thing you could do is try a shorter stem. Yours is already pretty short, but you could try 35-40mm and see if that helps. You also might consider a handlebar with more backsweep. The only other option you have is to get a frame with a shorter toptube.


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## omnom (Mar 6, 2016)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Tilting your brake levers will change the pressure on your wrists. You probably don't want a lot of bend in your wrists. My recommendation would be to make sure your handlebar is about level with your seat. Yours might be a little bit too low in relation to your seat. The other thing you could do is try a shorter stem. Yours is already pretty short, but you could try 35-40mm and see if that helps. You also might consider a handlebar with more backsweep. The only other option you have is to get a frame with a shorter toptube.


Thanks!

I'll look into a shorter stem and a new handle bar.

A question about setting up the handle bar, what do you mean by setting it so that it's level with your seat? The back sweep being parallel to the seat? If so, why use the seat as reference.

Added in the OP that I'm already using a size S frame.

Also, will changing the fork to a 160mm one help? As I'm using a pike and already have the 160mm air shaft on hand.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

It Is what it is. Seat tubes angle back, so the shorter the legs, the further forward we are on the bike. Good for climbing, not so good downhill.

Maybe a shorter stem and a very setback seat post would help.

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

omnom said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'll look into a shorter stem and a new handle bar.
> 
> ...


Not all size S frames will have the same geometry. Some will have longer top tubes and/or reach others will have shorter ones.

Changing the fork length will slacken out the front. This will in turn increase your stack height if running a constant number of spacers below the stem and as a result will shorten the reach. A major caveat is to make sure your frame can handle the increased leverage.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

If you are leaning too far forward, and want a more upright riding position, you might try moving your seat forward. Less or no offset seat post and the saddle further forward on it's rails. 
It's a bit unclear from your post and comments whether you think you're sitting too far forward, or you are reaching too far.
Slightly narrower bars can also help you get a bit more up right, if that would be comfortable etc


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## omnom (Mar 6, 2016)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Not all size S frames will have the same geometry. Some will have longer top tubes and/or reach others will have shorter ones.
> 
> Changing the fork length will slacken out the front. This will in turn increase your stack height if running a constant number of spacers below the stem and as a result will shorten the reach. A major caveat is to make sure your frame can handle the increased leverage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Ahh yes, I'll have to check with NS if the 2015 Snabb T will allow a 160mm fork



MozFat said:


> If you are leaning too far forward, and want a more upright riding position, you might try moving your seat forward. Less or no offset seat post and the saddle further forward on it's rails.
> It's a bit unclear from your post and comments whether you think you're sitting too far forward, or you are reaching too far.
> Slightly narrower bars can also help you get a bit more up right, if that would be comfortable etc


I see, thank you!

Maybe i worded it wrongly in the OP but I'm currently feeling like im leaning too far forward when im going downhill, in attack position (?).

Might be why i was quite confuse on the previous few comment on changing up my seat/seat post


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## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

If you only feel this problem when descending while out of the saddle, then it would seem that the reach is too long. I think shorter stem and/or narrower handlebars are your options for moving you further back.

I'm having trouble finding the geometry numbers for your bike, but my guess is that a 2015 bike won't have a super long reach. And if you are longer torso/shorter legs, I would think that a small frame would not be too long in the reach for you. I also have a long torso, and find myself more comfortable on larger (longer reach) frames compared to other people of my height with more normal proportions.

Could this be technique related? How does it feel if you employ a "heavy feet, light hands" position, where you are putting almost all of your weight on your feet, and just lightly holding the handlebars without putting any weight through your hands? Are you arms too extended in this position (bad), or do you have a good bend in the elbows (good).


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

NS Bikes - Snabb T - Enduro / Trail

140-160mm forks are recommended. If you add fork length you also slacken the seat tube angle and raise the bottom bracket.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Shorter stem.
Taller bar.
Narrower bar.
More backswept bar.

OR... is your rear suspension all jacked up. Sag?

-F


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm having a hard time envisioning how someone with short legs and a long torso on a small frame would need a shorter stem than 50mm. Pics of the bike are needed.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

First things first. take and post a pic(s) of your bike side on so everyone who's trying to understand can at least see your setup. Next, how do you have your suspension set up, is the SAG right on the shock and fork? Shock is the most important.easiest to set SAG for, if you're running your fork soft and shock to hard, then that alone could give you the feeling you're experiencing.

Then have to ask, how long have you been riding a mountain bike and have you changed where you ride recently, as in are you now riding steeper trails? If you're new to MTBing and/or now trying more difficult and steeper trails, then maybe that's the problem, you're just not accustomed to them and need to work on your riding position for such things.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

I suspect the problem you have is real, but you're not doing a very good job expressing it. What we know about your bike doesn't lend itself to your complaints. Here is a list of things that could solve your problems as stated.

-raise the bars
-lower the bars
-move the saddle forward
-adjust your cockpit
-run more fork spring
-run more fork damping
-run more shock pressure
-run less shock pressure
-shorten the stem
-buy a new bike
-fix your technique (solution A)
-fix your technique (solution Z)
-increase tire pressure


OK. That's enough. Tell us under what circumstances the bike doesn't feel right. Be as specific as possible. If you can say what you've done to ameliorate the problem and the results, that's helpful too.


Ultimately, you might have better luck talking to your most experienced riding buddy rather than a bunch of internet randoms.


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## omnom (Mar 6, 2016)

Thank you all for trying to help!

Currently for both my fork and shock (140mm), I have em set at 25% sag.

I've noticed that I am always leaning too far forward when I'm turning through berms at quicker speeds, going down hill where the feature is much like a staircase where it goes down, flat for a tiny bit then down again and when im airborne.

I'd say me feeling like im going OTB when airborne is given as I am very new to jumps and I'm still a little tense mid air.

Here is a picture of my bike:










http://imgur.com/1cCrC


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

It sounds as though the problem mostly manifests downhill. If you don't have a dropper post, try one.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

omnom said:


> Here is a picture of my bike:


Is that seat in the right position for pedaling? If so then the frame is too big IMO and for sure the cranks are too long.


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

omnom said:


> Thank you all for trying to help!
> 
> Currently for both my fork and shock (140mm), I have em set at 25% sag.
> 
> ...


I have no help to offer, the bars are about a foot above the saddle. Go to a LBS for a fit and see what they can do.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well, to me, that's probably a big part of your problem right there. To me I can never set a forks SAG according to recommendations, fork will always seem to soft/dive.

What I do is pump it up to the recommended pressure, then jump up and push on the bars as hard as I can, if I can compress it through more than half the travel, then I add some air, if I can't get it past 40% of travel I let out some air, then I go ride and see how it feels. I ask myself these questions below and adjust as needed - 
Does it feel like it's wallowing/blowing through the mid stroke? 
Is it easily using all or nearly all travel on regular trail features?



omnom said:


> Thank you all for trying to help!
> *
> Currently for both my fork and shock (140mm), I have em set at 25% sag.*
> 
> ...


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## omnom (Mar 6, 2016)

LyNx said:


> Well, to me, that's probably a big part of your problem right there. To me I can never set a forks SAG according to recommendations, fork will always seem to soft/dive.
> 
> What I do is pump it up to the recommended pressure, then jump up and push on the bars as hard as I can, if I can compress it through more than half the travel, then I add some air, if I can't get it past 40% of travel I let out some air, then I go ride and see how it feels. I ask myself these questions below and adjust as needed -
> Does it feel like it's wallowing/blowing through the mid stroke?
> Is it easily using all or nearly all travel on regular trail features?


Thank you for the recommendation, I will definitely try and mess around with the suspension setting. I am a really light rider (50kg, 52kg-ish with everything on) so I've been messing with my suspension setup a lot.



LargeMan said:


> I have no help to offer, the bars are about a foot above the saddle. Go to a LBS for a fit and see what they can do.





J.B. Weld said:


> Is that seat in the right position for pedaling? If so then the frame is too big IMO and for sure the cranks are too long.


No, as I do not have a dropper post, my seat is almost always down as I'm lazy to shift it up and down.

At this position I can still climb some stuff but anything technical/ steep is impossible and I just push.



MSU Alum said:


> It sounds as though the problem mostly manifests downhill. If you don't have a dropper post, try one.


Yea, definitely the next thing on my list. That and a needle bearing kit.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I agree with increasing fork pressure and or tuning in more ramp up and high speed compression. Tilting your levers a bit flatter can't hurt, you can always change them back. I like mine tilted down 30°, good for braking on the steeper parts when my weight is back. These changes cost nothing, and it's always best to start free.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

omnom said:


> I am always leaning too far forward when I'm turning through berms at quicker speeds
> 
> going down hill where the feature is much like a staircase where it goes down
> 
> I'd say me feeling like im going OTB when airborne is given as I am very new to jumps and I'm still a little tense mid air.


Ah. I'm fairly confident i know what's up. All three of these circumstances require a weight shift; you start by weighting your bars and feet, and as you go into the ramp/ into the berm/ off the edge you rock your weight back and press in to the rear wheel. In all 3 circumstances it's the same- it lets you determine how you're going to exit the feature.

If you don't do a weight shift then you're at the mercy of how the obstacle flings you and you dead sailor. The nose drops first and you feel too forward.

I think the best practice is to always be in the hunt for little rocks and roots to bump-jump off of. Roll in to them, rock all your weight to your rear wheel when the front hits the feature, then press the rear wheel in to the feature when it hits it. Done correctly you hop weirdly high, and it's a safe way to internalize the weight shift timing of the bike.






If you think i'm on the right track then i'd discourage you from fussing with your bike set up. Sure, maybe tweaking something might make it easier, but if you're trying to find that balance point then it's a lot harder to learn the timing if it's a moving target.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm having a hard time envisioning how someone with short legs and a long torso on a small frame would need a shorter stem than 50mm. Pics of the bike are needed.


A lot of Small frames are like A few years ago medium

I'm 5'6" long torso with short legs and arms. I like a 40mm stem but the bars about an inch higher that the saddle. So more spacers, higher bar, or taller fork.

Looking at the bikes geo, I'd have the seat in the middle of the rails. A 40 mm stem. Most bars are 20mm rise so I'd have 20mm spacer. This set up won't work for most people, but my body angles are correct and weight distribution is correct.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

LyNx said:


> Well, to me, that's probably a big part of your problem right there. To me I can never set a forks SAG according to recommendations, fork will always seem to soft/dive.
> 
> What I do is pump it up to the recommended pressure, then jump up and push on the bars as hard as I can, if I can compress it through more than half the travel, then I add some air, if I can't get it past 40% of travel I let out some air, then I go ride and see how it feels. I ask myself these questions below and adjust as needed -
> Does it feel like it's wallowing/blowing through the mid stroke?
> Is it easily using all or nearly all travel on regular trail features?


+1!

When I set up a fork, I set sag from a very aggressive cornering position on the bike - NOT from the "normal" pedaling position. This reduces brake dive and supports me when I'm weighting the front tire instead of collapsing (and tucking and launching me on a tangent off the turn without my bike...)

-F


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Adjust your body's CoG according to the slope the bike is following. Your body's CoG is considered to be a little forward of the belly button. Or in other words, you have to adjust your technique according to the pull of gravity, to carry more weight on your feet and less on your bars.

Get your lower body more into the duty of balancing yourself. Start by lowering your hips. Do drills to improve your manuals, to get a feel for using your lower body to control the bike.

If you're able to get your balance on a slope without needing to support weight on the bars, able to use very light gripping strength with your hands, you're feeling the effects of what's basically called effective* weight shifting. [SUP][SUB]*I don't believe that there's a "proper" method, as that tends to be opinion based and narrow-minded[/SUB][/SUP]

If you need a visual, just draw lines from pro rider's belly buttons, following the direct of gravity's pull, and see if it lands centered between the wheels.


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