# Front wheel stoppage



## Harvo (Dec 30, 2003)

Wanted to ask here first in case it's a me thing and not a bike thing. About to turn 51, and just got my first 29er mid travel trail bike. I've ridden since I was 20, and used to be really good on techy, jumpy stuff. Then I took a 14 year long break to ride dirt bikes. 

This new bike is awesome. I feel comfortable on it in all but one circumstance. In the techy stuff I used to love. 

The front wheel wants to stop against rocks and roots instead of rolling over them... 

Is that just a 29er thing, a fork thing, a tire pressure thing, or just an old guy trying to learn new tricks thing?

Thanks


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Old guy trying new tricks. 29 rolls over stuff better than smaller wheels. Fork, if set up reasonably OK, allows the front wheel to move upward to help it over stuff. Lower tire pressure helps take the sharp edges off stuff. You have to drop your hips and shift your weight back in one move to help the front wheel over larger stuff.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

In addition to what Lone Ranger said, I believe you've likely become used to powering through obstacles with the motorcycle's throttle. On the MTB, bike and body movement are critical, and much more important because you don't have a 200 lb motorcycle and its engine's power keeping up your momentum.

Coming from a lifetime of riding motocross, it's something I struggled with at first, especially because I had no throttle available to correct a bad jump or sketchy landing. 

Practice safely, aim for gradual progression, and have fun! 


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## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

Speed is your friend - hit it harder. Yeah that's counter-intuitive when you're trying to regain your confidence and you can certainly push it past the point of safe riding but a little extra speed while staying light in the bike can float you over obstacles you struggle with when plodding along.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Front wheel stoppage is basically lack of speed. If you ride single speed you get better at anticipating it.

It just needs a hard pump on the pedals and a move of your weight fractionally backwards to clear it.

Nonetheless I still get stopped by the odd pebble or root only about 1" high on some tech stuff. 

The big problem is it's usually somewhere that you can't get started again, so it's windmill legs up the rest of the hill or off and push until it's possible to get going again.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Like others have said, either more speed and/or lighten your front wheel, like my friend says, 'Go fast and pull up'.
Welcome back. 
Braaaap


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Yeah. On a moto, giving it some throttle lightens the front wheel. On mtbs, you mostly do that with weight shift. Momentum helps get over obstacles, but the the drive from momentum comes from your CG which is pretty high on an mtb and pushes the front wheel downward when it hits something. Appropriately timing the down and back move with the hips serves to lighten the front wheel. Do it emphatically enough and you can lift the front wheel off the ground high enough to start wheelieing, called a "manual" in mtb lingo.


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 10, 2004)

As a long time dirt bike racer who started riding mtb's regularly in my early 50's I have fought the same battle. On a dirtbike, you ride the front end - sliding forward to corner, etc. You can't really do that on a bicycle... yet. If you notice the geometry changes happening to mtb's in recent years, you'll find they're becoming more like dirt bikes. Steering head angles are approaching 63ish degrees (similar to modern MX bikes) and fork offsets are being reduced to increase trail. You're also starting to see some mfgr's lengthening chainstays for larger frame sizes.

Getting on a modern geometry frame will definitely make the adjustment less difficult for you, but you still have to learn to move your body mass around much more effectively than on a dirt bike. I have to constantly remind myself in chunky terrain to keep my weight back.

My adult sons are very good mtb riders now, so it's frustrating to watch them make things look easy while I can easily get "sketched out" by fairly modest drops or other technical features. My son recently took some pictures of me doing a small drop, so I compared it to pictures of him doing a much larger drop. Though I would have claimed I had my weight low and back, the picture tells a different story. I need to intentionally work on my technique because it's not all the same as riding a dirt bike.

Here are comparison pics. I look top heavy in comparison to my son - like an endo waiting to happen (which is how I feel)...















AM.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

It's not the wheel size.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

The OP has been riding bikes of one type or another his whole life. Sure, he is used to riding MX but he has a background riding older, less capable bikes than his current 29er, so saying he needs to learn how to ride might not be the whole story. It is at least worth looking into whether the fork is set up properly, or whether a different setting matches his riding style better.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Attacking Mid said:


> ...Though I would have claimed I had my weight low and back, the picture tells a different story. I need to intentionally work on my technique because it's not all the same as riding a dirt bike.


You're riding like I do on on natural terrain with unknown features, ie your position is so you can see what awaits you over the edge. That's sensible if it's a new trail to you, you don't bounce like younger riders. I won't ride a drop without first checking it out. I'd sooner be chicken than scrambled egg. 

However if it's a known trail, then generally there's a line, so you can be confident and put your weight back and down, trust the bike, it will do the rest.


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## Harvo (Dec 30, 2003)

I've made some progress this week on several fronts. First off, my body position. My old bikes were either hard tails or short travel XC bikes. Riding across rock gardens required me to be on the nose of the saddle, bent over to the bars, smashing out watts.
I realized that on this bike, I was trying to sit.. not much differently than on a smooth trail, because the bike could soak up so much trail trash. 

I found that by hovering above the seat and pushing a harder gear, I have way more momentum and control.

Next, I revisited my fork sag. Somehow, errors were made before. My sag should have been 22 to 28 mm. It was actually 42 mm. Sure it was a super plush ride... but that accounts for some of the stoppage. The fork would just take a dive when it would impact tall enough rocks. I pumped up my fork to the correct sag (which actually took about 15 more PSI than the manual said it should for my weight) I'm contributing that to bike geometry. Now the fork seems firm enough to better handle the rocks and help keep my momentum. Of course that's not the only advantage to correct sag, so today's ride was much better all around. 

Thanks for the advice on riding position and momentum. All those comments led me to discover what I was doing wrong. I'm still not nailing the rocky bits every time, but I'm getting alot farther more often than before.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

My two bits is that you also have to maintain a lower position (more attack) not only to fit within the bike but also to have more body english ready to deploy. Think of it this way... when ripping down a chunky slope that has a bunch of pot hole type kickers. You get low and light. Your head floats perfectly and the bike moves From limb extension as well as the suspension On the bike beneath you. You end up doing very little real work. 

As for the fork getting stuck, not sure what bike your on and what travel, but if your front heavy like in the picture, then the fork not staying up will let you weight transfer forward and then things are moving the wrong way. Down instead of up. You can ride a soft fork but you must be prepared to float and let the bike and fork do the work. Your head and helmet never moves.

Cheers


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## Rajflyboy (Jan 30, 2020)

Good training video






... just not sure of push down theory on SLOW drops


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Rajflyboy said:


> Good training video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's what i do and it works

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## Rajflyboy (Jan 30, 2020)

rod9301 said:


> That's what i do and it works
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


I guess I just need to get my head right with it. I know it makes sense to get back on the ground ASAP. Keep weight more centered and not back (bad habits I need to break).


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## Galeforce5 (Jun 7, 2013)

Harvo said:


> Wanted to ask here first in case it's a me thing and not a bike thing. About to turn 51, and just got my first 29er mid travel trail bike. I've ridden since I was 20, and used to be really good on techy, jumpy stuff. Then I took a 14 year long break to ride dirt bikes.
> 
> This new bike is awesome. I feel comfortable on it in all but one circumstance. In the techy stuff I used to love.
> 
> ...


It's a question of speed and weighting the bike. It took me a long time to learn to push down and then back. You need to get some weight off the front wheel while powering through the obstacle. On drops, the single best thing I learned is to put your heels DOWN. If you practice this, you will find that putting your heels at a 45 degree angle to the ground will naturally shift your weight back and makes the descents/drops much easier.


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## MisterClean (Jul 1, 2004)

Rajflyboy said:


> Good training video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, fantastic resource. Thanks for the share! Now where can I practice that in Norcal Bay area. And don't say Braille


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## MisterClean (Jul 1, 2004)

Rajflyboy said:


> I guess I just need to get my head right with it. I know it makes sense to get back on the ground ASAP. Keep weight more centered and not back (bad habits I need to break).


Getting air is fun, but great point in the video about being ready for what's next. If you know the trail, fly on... Until you do, keep those wheels on the ground as much as possible. If you have line of site, send it...

Yes, I need to work on my drops. I am tentative on may that others don't hesitate on...


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## MisterClean (Jul 1, 2004)

yeah, speed and unweight the front a bit. I once endo'd on a rock on a slow uphill climb until I got my technique worked out.. was on a 26'er at the time...


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## slowrider (May 15, 2004)

I feel 29rs make every bump seem smaller and every climb seem steeper.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

There's really not that big a difference between how a 29" wheel accommodates a square hit vs smaller wheels, the real benefit or a larger wheel is "bridging" between obstacles. 

Fatter tires can soften a square hit because the tire absorbs the impact, lower pressure can help if it doesn't lead to rim damage or flats. Also setting up suspension for low speed impacts won't hurt.

So the OP's problem has to do with mass, inertia, and body position. If you are riding a bike like a moto, but without the speed or mass, and you hit an obstacle then your wheels will "stop" or you will go OTB.

Change the way you accommodate obstacles by working with the bike to overcome the obstacle, don't rely on the suspension to soak it up, changing your body position will help, more speed would help if it is accompanied by the other stuff


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Attacking Mid said:


> As a long time dirt bike racer who started riding mtb's regularly in my early 50's I have fought the same battle. On a dirtbike, you ride the front end - sliding forward to corner, etc. You can't really do that on a bicycle... yet. If you notice the geometry changes happening to mtb's in recent years, you'll find they're becoming more like dirt bikes. Steering head angles are approaching 63ish degrees (similar to modern MX bikes) and fork offsets are being reduced to increase trail. You're also starting to see some mfgr's lengthening chainstays for larger frame sizes.
> 
> Getting on a modern geometry frame will definitely make the adjustment less difficult for you, but you still have to learn to move your body mass around much more effectively than on a dirt bike. I have to constantly remind myself in chunky terrain to keep my weight back.
> 
> ...


The difference between you and your son is speed and body position, which go together, also line choice. Also notice that you are intending to manual a ledge; really a notch, with your rear wheel already elevated on a ledge. The better line is from rider's right or left.

Remember a good manual requires a pedal stroke or some means to apply pressure to the rear wheel to lever the front wheel upwards.

Also drop your seat so you can maneuver.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> The difference between you and your son is speed and body position, which go together, also line choice. Also notice that you are intending to manual a ledge; really a notch, with your rear wheel already elevated on a ledge. The better line is from rider's right or left.
> 
> Remember a good manual requires a pedal stroke or some means to apply pressure to the rear wheel to lever the front wheel upwards.
> 
> Also drop your seat so you can maneuver.


Yeah, the seat is way too high

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## Crockpot2001 (Nov 2, 2004)

Damn, I feel like I wrote the OP. This is becoming more of an issue for me as I slow down for safety and lose upper body strength. Losing that strength seems to be allowing me to pitch forward when the bike stalls resulting in more falls. I need to do more core strength and push ups.


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 10, 2004)

The seat is dropped 150mm, though on this bike I had another 40mm of room for more drop. I know I need to get more comfortable with getting my butt behind the seat, but I've recently helped myself. I bought a more modern geo bike (Transition Sentinel) with a more upright seat tube. This has made a huge difference in my ability to move behind the seat. I still have the same 150mm dropper, but plan to upgrade to a 210mm soon. It's a little humbling to rely on technology to help me ride better, but at my age, I need to make rapid improvement so any help is appreciated!

Oh, and one reason I feel humbled is that my son is riding essentially the same bike in the pics above. His is an XXL aluminum Remedy and mine is an XL carbon of the same generation.

AM.


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