# Bike Brand you Would Never Buy?



## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

I have a short list of bike brands I wouldn't consider buying, but I'll chime in later.

A big thing that turns me off: 
Unsubstantiated bragging from marketing
Light weight over durability
Just plain ugly bikes


----------



## Colonel Flagg (Jan 7, 2006)

It used to be Cannondale. 10-15 years ago I thought they were junk. I think they're great now.

I don't think there is a brand I wouldn't consider now. I would buy the bike that felt the best when I rode it.


----------



## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Well this is going to escalate quickly. Better go get my Ron Burgundy gif


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Turnoffs? 
Sue happy owners that patent other's ideas
A$$hole owners
Companies that disappear and leave warranties hanging
New owners that won't cover old warranties

Guess who.


----------



## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

I was going to chime in about the company I had a bad experience with. I decided that the forums are for sharing information and ideas to enhance the riding experience that we all strive to appreciate.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

anything from a box store.


----------



## Gerth (Aug 17, 2013)

Any bike from any manufacturer that ignores the Clydesdale market.


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Never say never. Marin just stepped-up their game recently. Before, I would never think about a heavy, clunky Marin(except the Nail Trail HT).


----------



## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

never is a strong word, but...
Brands with a full-time legal department, i.e, the one that's constantly suing everyone and just had the patent expire that was the only thing making them unique (this is as close to "never buy" as I get right now; I can't stant the fact that they sued a 1-man working out of his garage operation. 

I get pretty turned off by the "LBS-only" sales policy, for a number of reasons: 1: no LBS keeps my size in stock, and 99% will not get a bike in for a test ride without a commitment to buy. 2: I know as much about fitting a bike to me as any shop employee I've ever met, and I don't need to ride a bike to know if it fits. 3: I'm not ever going to buy a complete bike anyway, and you can't test ride a frame.


----------



## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

Cove. Maybe I'd buy one if I was 13 again............

Drew


----------



## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Joules said:


> never is a strong word, but...
> Brands with a full-time legal department, i.e, the one that's constantly suing everyone and just had the patent expire that was the only thing making them unique (this is as close to "never buy" as I get right now; I can't stant the fact that they sued a 1-man working out of his garage operation.
> 
> I get pretty turned off by the "LBS-only" sales policy, for a number of reasons: 1: no LBS keeps my size in stock, and 99% will not get a bike in for a test ride without a commitment to buy. 2: I know as much about fitting a bike to me as any shop employee I've ever met, and I don't need to ride a bike to know if it fits. 3: I'm not ever going to buy a complete bike anyway, and you can't test ride a frame.


Wait, so if you know how to fit a bike to yourself, and don't want to test ride a bike because you only buy frames, then why would you have a problem with your size not being in stock without ordering?

Back on topic, I'm surprised nobody has really thrown out the expected names yet. This is oddly mature


----------



## STACK (Mar 23, 2009)

Huffy? Any big-box only brand?

It's usually STORES that lose the business above brands.


----------



## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

Specialized. With one hundred percent certainty.


----------



## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

One-One/Titus...El Guapo fiasco

Ellsworth...Tony Ellsworth


----------



## ti-triodes (Jun 25, 2008)

Santacruz. I know they're sweet rides but they are as common as Trek's where I ride.
Trek. Well, duh!
GT. I just never liked the way they looked.


----------



## johnlh (Aug 16, 2008)

Harley-Davidson. I can't stand the way those over-priced pieces of crap sound.


----------



## Ryan The VW Tech (Oct 18, 2010)

Trek. My first nice bike was a carbon Superfly hardtail, between the Bontrager Race X Lite wheels being so unreliable and cracking the frame on 3 different occasions without crashing it (each time their warranty deemed it a "defective frame" and charged me $150 labor each time to warranty it) I can confidently say I will never buy a Trek bike again. The unfortunate part is that it's kinda scared me away from carbon mtb frames in general.


----------



## Ryan The VW Tech (Oct 18, 2010)

johnlh said:


> Harley-Davidson. I can't stand the way those over-priced pieces of crap sound.


On that note...

Anything with a motor, no electric bikes in my future, I enjoy being the motor to power it


----------



## jrogs (Sep 2, 2012)

I would never buy a Giant. It is not their fault though. They make nice bikes. I just rode with a guy a few times and he was a douche and it turned me off to them. Guilt by association.


----------



## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

I don't like buying bikes from REALLY popular/big brands such as Trek, Santa Cruz, Giant, or even Cannondale. Right now I'm on a rocky mountain and I'm thinking my next ride will probably be a Banshee.


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Acme Princess-(D) Sears, Roebuck & Company, Chicago IL, 1898
They no longer honor their warranty!


----------



## AMjunky (Apr 29, 2013)

Any bike brands owned by Dorel/Pacific the huge corporate whale of the bike industry. Having said that Connondale is making sweet bikes of late and Peter Sagan kicks @$$! Used to have a GT, great bike but customer service was horrible. 

Also no lemming bikes like Specialized and Trek. I wouldn’t really lump Santa Cruz with those two. Then again I ride one. I am not too crazy about the fact that they make so many different products like skate boards surfing stuff. Same for Scott but I ride a Scott road bike and its pretty damn good.

What really irks me are no name brands like Diamondback having the gaul to charge $6k for a 26” aluminum bike with mediocre spec. Why would any one in their right mind buy one?

At the end of the day it comes down to how a bike feels to you and are you getting a good deal? I loathe Specialized but when recently purchasing a new bike I was looking at a Specialized. Brand image and my dislike of the brand was not going to stop me from trying it and buying the bike I felt fit me best. I really wanted a Rocky Mountain Altitude, yet as soon as I took a quick spin on it I knew it was not the bike for me, regardless of how much I wanted it or liked the brand. Same for Ibis who royally screwed the pooch with the HDR (in my humble opinion), I had my heart set on HD 160mm 650b. Alas at the end of the day the bike was not the bike I wanted.

I am pretty anti-LBS (Local Bull Sh!t artists) and LBS only - no end user support policies piss me off too. However, good luck finding a drive train or suspension company who will deal directly with the end user. I have run into the same take it to the LBS BS with all three Campy, Sram and Shimano. Credit where credit is due Campy and Shimano picked up the phone, Shimano after much b!tc#ing moaning offered to deal with me directly. Sram treated me real good but through an LBS.


----------



## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

ghettocop said:


> Specialized. With one hundred percent certainty.


+1

I have serious issues with their business practices and I detest the idea of proprietary parts.


----------



## Scubapiper (Aug 15, 2005)

STACK said:


> Huffy? Any big-box only brand?


That's not a bike, it's a Huffy!


----------



## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Trek, GT and just about all store-chain brands.

The two first because all the rich kids rode them when I was a kid, just can't stumach even looking at them these days. 

I'm well on my way to ruin Cannondale for someone though, spent all my savings on one


----------



## Fat Bob (Mar 5, 2004)

007 said:


> +1
> 
> I have serious issues with their business practices and I detest the idea of proprietary parts.


Yup the big "S" can lick my ball


----------



## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Chumba. A **** show of a company with a lying con artist at the helm.

They were actually pretty good to me when I bought my HX-1 frame but just after that everything fell apart (the company, not the bike). I wish the threads in the now deleted Chumba forum were still there.


----------



## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

ti-triodes said:


> Santacruz. I know they're sweet rides but they are as common as Trek's where I ride.


+1 along with Specialized. Has more to do with the LBS that sells them then the bikes, though boring commonality is also a factor.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Chumba and anything that Bikes Direct is schlepping.


----------



## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

ghettocop said:


> Specialized. With one hundred percent certainty.


Yeah I would never under any circumstances buy a Specialized. I see them as the big evil corporation in the bike biz. More specifically Specialized has essentially taken over where I ride. Almost every bike I see on trail is a Specialized and almost every bike shop around here is filled with their product. That's part of the reason I buy my bikes and gear online; if I went into a shop around here to buy a bike almost all of the selection would be Specialized.

I have several riding buddies with Specialized and the use of OEM parts is absurd. You can't even swap out many parts on the bike because of the OEM brand. The prices of their bikes are also verging on insane. Why on Earth would I buy an $8-9k Specialized when I can build a better bike for less money with parts that actually fit. It truly baffles me why that company is still in business.

Specialized is up there with Walmart and Bank of America as brands I will never support.


----------



## mtnbiker831 (Sep 19, 2011)

ti-triodes said:


> Santacruz. I know they're sweet rides but they are as common as Trek's where I ride.
> Trek. Well, duh!
> GT. I just never liked the way they looked.


It's funny to me that you would not consider a bike brand because they are popular. They are probably popular because they work well in your area, or they come from a good lbs that takes care if its customers. I would happily take either of those advantages and at least try them...I guess I don't need to feel special on the trail by riding a boutique bike that is rarely seen in my area and will have all the internet peoples ask about it when I stop. And for the record, I don't own a sc or trek bike.


----------



## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

mtnbiker831 said:


> It's funny to me that you would not consider a bike brand because they are popular. They are probably popular because they work well in your area, or they come from a good lbs that takes care if its customers. I would happily take either of those advantages and at least try them...I guess I don't need to feel special on the trail by riding a boutique bike that is rarely seen in my area and will have all the internet peoples ask about it when I stop. And for the record, I don't own a sc or trek bike.


Its more than "I'm not buying a bike because its popular." I stray from big brands because I prefer supporting small companies, especially brands that make things in the U.S.

Or the way I see it, there are so many great bike companies out there, why just buy the most common brand? I dunno, that's just me.


----------



## kingsqueak (Jul 21, 2013)

The Ross Apollo 5spd, because as a broke kid I had to be taunted by that bike on Wonderama for years when I could never afford one. To hell with the Ross Apollo 5spd, heh.


----------



## Hooch (Jun 30, 2006)

hmm ive tried Gary Fisher, and specialized, they weren't to bad. loved the fishers until trek bought them out and systematically killed the brand off 
Now I own a Merida, hadn't heard much of the brand before owning this as companies like scott, speccy and giant are big here in aus. have a 26 merida carbon team 96 2011 model and love riding it. and yes have owned and ridden a stumpy fsr 29r nice ride but didn't do much for me.
next bike will probably be something different again as i was brand loyal to specialized for a few years, now time to try others methinks.


----------



## Scarsandtears (Sep 18, 2010)

Specialized for sure.


----------



## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

Another vote for CHUMBA, disgrace of a company from top to bottom, anybody thats aware of the dramas on here and the devious nature of the company will know what im talking about.

And mongoose and diamondback, they made good BMX's 30 years ago but these days make crap.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

I wouldnt rule anything out these days now, theres a lot of comebacks happening, Kona, Marin, GT, Norco.... there's a few thats producing awesome bikes too.


----------



## fahza29er (Jun 26, 2012)

I haven't had any bad experiences with bikes or companies.
The only negative stuff I had a friend with a santa cruze cracked his frame, took them 8 months to warranty it, from that I woould never buy a santa cruz.


----------



## Shutter Jim (Feb 2, 2011)

I think this is a really weird thread for the passion section.


----------



## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Specialized for all the reasons mentioned.

Pretty much any other name that a non-mountian biker would easily recognize, I.E. Giant, Trek, Diamondback, Raleigh, etc. I don't hate these bikes I just don't want one. When I look at new frames I look at the smaller, less known companies....Yeti, Turner, Knolly, Pivot...along those lines, for various reasons.


----------



## rlb81 (Aug 18, 2008)

Joules said:


> never is a strong word, but...
> Brands with a full-time legal department, i.e, the one that's constantly suing everyone and just had the patent expire that was the only thing making them unique (this is as close to "never buy" as I get right now; I can't stant the fact that they sued a 1-man working out of his garage operation.


And what brand would this be?


----------



## HELLBELLY (Jan 16, 2004)

*There are very few companies I would buy a new bike from. Those include Santa Cruz, Raleigh (CX or Road), Surly and assorted small custom builders. Now the ones I avoid include:

Trek and those beneath it's umbrella...no personal vendetta; I just don't care for them.
 Giant...same as Trek 
Specialized...overpriced for their spec usually and they are just kinda creepy 
Ellsworth...overhyped. 
Cannondale, Jamis...same as Trek

Now, I have purchased and would purchase used frames from these companies. Especially in the cyclocross realm. It's kinda difficult to futz CX frames up. I simply pick them up cheap and repowdercoat them. *
:devil:


----------



## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

BAMF.

BAMF Bike Co.

What could be more douchey than riding a bike called a **** Kicker?


----------



## teleguy03 (Apr 5, 2004)

++1



nhodge said:


> One-One/Titus...El Guapo fiasco
> 
> Ellsworth...Tony Ellsworth


----------



## B-Mac (Oct 2, 2008)

I'd ride a ham sandwich lovingly prepared by Hitler's grandmother if it rode well, did what I wanted & had a fair price tag.


----------



## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Currently I ride a KHS hardtail frame that purchased in 2003 and built up myself. I don't have any brand I won't buy because of the name. There are bikes I won't buy because I don't think they are value priced. Meaning that I want a bike that does it job well at reasonable price. Value for money is what I want. 

It is why a built my bike many years ago. I could simply not find a complete bike I wanted with right spec level at the right price. Every built bikes was a compromise somewhere and by doing it my self I got what I wanted. I bought a KHS frame because at the time I felt it was a very good frame at a strong price. These days I have never seen another KHS Alite 4000 frame on the trails. 

These days if I need a new bike I will look at any brand and make a decision based on the bike and price. I don't care if everyone rides that bike or nobody rides that bike.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

B-Mac said:


> I'd ride a ham sandwich lovingly prepared by Hitler's grandmother if it rode well, did what I wanted & had a fair price tag.


LOl. I agree. Paint over the decals if you have to. 

A lot of Specialized haters around here.


----------



## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

squareback said:


> BAMF.
> 
> 
> 
> What could be more douchey than riding a bike called a **** Kicker?




STD, G-Spot, Handjob. Bikes for teenagers I guess. What's for 2015, Deep Throat, Superman? I think that company is owned by 15 year old skateboarders.


----------



## BIGHORN LEW (Mar 26, 2008)

Niner...I don't want to be cussed at and told what to do every time I look down at the top tube!


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Stradalli bikes. Seriously...very cheesy ad campaigns..


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Hmmm, GT because they have a small secection and they brag about their A.O.S in all of the magazines.
Kona, although I would be fine if I were given one or bought one at 50% off, but they have had too many frame cracking issues.
Any KMart or WalMart bike. Just too junky (Although two years ago I bought a Schwinn Sidewinder to just ride around on)
Specialized, for the most part. Although I respect bikes like the Enduro 29 and Stumpjumper 29, they put a suntour on a $1800 Camber! And they use Formula brakes where most others use Shimano.
Any Cannondale with Maguras. I like the Rush, Jekyll and Trigger, but anything with those weak Maguras I stay away from.


----------



## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

CannondaleF9 said:


> they put a suntour on a $1800 Camber!


Think that's bad? They put a Suntour (E150) fork on my buddies $3100 '07 Enduro :eekster:


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

eatdrinkride said:


> Think that's bad? They put a Suntour (E150) fork on my buddies $3100 '07 Enduro :eekster:


Wow, that is bad. If I were looking at that bike and saw "suntour" on the fork I would run away.


----------



## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Wow, that is bad. If I were looking at that bike and saw "suntour" on the fork I would run away.


It didn't say Suntour. It was a proprietary fork (complete with 25mm axle to boot, wtf??!!) made by Suntour but re-badged as a Specialized E150. It was special all right. Special enough to launch a thread 1000 posts long regarding problems inherent with it over on the speshy forum iirc.


----------



## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

I guess I just hate the big bike brands; Trek because I broke one and I've seen a lot of pics of broken frames, Specialized due to all the proprietary stuff and very high price to value (and over-hyped), Cannondale because they are not built to last and they instigated the pressfit bottom bracket. I also would absolutely never buy a Giant, people think they are a real bargain, but they use a lot of in-house components and the savings aren't that good, they also have horrible tire clearance from what I've seen. I think the biggest problem with all of the above bikes is they make bikes that are easy to pick up (lightweight) without enough concern for durability.

I also will never buy a bike with pressfit bottom bracket, to me that indicates that the bike isn't meant to last as long as I may want to ride it (5 years???). 

I'm not totally psyched about Santa Cruz but from everything I've found they build strong bikes with a good balance of durability and weight, they aren't terribly over priced (like Ibis) and they have good resale in case I want to sell the bike in a year or two. 

Other brands I like: Transition, Banshee, Norco, Yeti, Jamis, Marin, Rocky Mountain...I guess the small to medium guys. I think they work harder via customer service and durability. The big guys can sell a lot more bikes because every joe on the street has heard of them, then they buy a bike ride it two or three times and then it hangs in the garage above their un-used stair master.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

unrooted said:


> I guess I just hate the big bike brands; Trek because I broke one and I've seen a lot of pics of broken frames, Specialized due to all the proprietary stuff and very high price to value (and over-hyped), Cannondale because they are not built to last and they instigated the pressfit bottom bracket. I also would absolutely never buy a Giant, people think they are a real bargain, but they use a lot of in-house components and the savings aren't that good, they also have horrible tire clearance from what I've seen. I think the biggest problem with all of the above bikes is they make bikes that are easy to pick up (lightweight) without enough concern for durability.
> 
> I also will never buy a bike with pressfit bottom bracket, to me that indicates that the bike isn't meant to last as long as I may want to ride it (5 years???).
> 
> ...


Oh yes, I forgot to mention Giant. All this 650b hype is making me sick.


----------



## philoanna (Mar 1, 2008)

I only buy Salsa bikes.


----------



## trout_smith (Jan 21, 2006)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Oh yes, I forgot to mention Giant. All this 650b hype is making me sick.


Also, Giant.


----------



## Burzum (Jul 30, 2009)

I love my SPECIALIZED Stumpjumper FSR, its an amazing bike. I own 5 other bikes now, but mostly ride my FSR. It's the typical American thing to do, bash the big companies.And brag about your $5000 "Independant" bike. I like Treks too to while I'm at it, My buddies Giant Anthem is pretty sweet too. I also like big titties.

To quote the mighty Napalm Death " The piles of **** (that the) alternative press delights us with, critique elite-ill informed, No wrong can be done, Depending on the trend at times to be untrendy. Unexpired exile, reluctantly we all indulge thier tasteful hype".


----------



## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

Burzum said:


> I love my SPECIALIZED Stumpjumper FSR, its an amazing bike. I own 5 other bikes now, but mostly ride my FSR. It's the typical American thing to do, bash the big companies.And brag about your $5000 "Independant" bike. I like Treks too to while I'm at it, My buddies Giant Anthem is pretty sweet too. I also like big titties.
> 
> To quote the mighty Napalm Death " The piles of **** (that the) alternative press delights us with, critique elite-ill informed, No wrong can be done, Depending on the trend at times to be untrendy. Unexpired exile, reluctantly we all indulge thier tasteful hype".


I would rather put my balls in a wood chipper than ride a SPECIALIZED onepumper FSR just putting it out there.


----------



## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

unrooted said:


> I guess I just hate the big bike brands; Trek because I broke one and I've seen a lot of pics of broken frames, Specialized due to all the proprietary stuff and very high price to value (and over-hyped), Cannondale because they are not built to last and they instigated the pressfit bottom bracket. I also would absolutely never buy a Giant, people think they are a real bargain, but they use a lot of in-house components and the savings aren't that good, they also have horrible tire clearance from what I've seen. I think the biggest problem with all of the above bikes is they make bikes that are easy to pick up (lightweight) without enough concern for durability.
> 
> I also will never buy a bike with pressfit bottom bracket, to me that indicates that the bike isn't meant to last as long as I may want to ride it (5 years???).
> 
> ...


Geez, thats a generalisation about Giant, i ride a 2012 reign, it has none of the above, its a killer bike for 2k.
It also has arguably the best maestro suspension design ever made, and is a top quality bike.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Tone's said:


> Geez, thats a generalisation about Giant, i ride a 2012 reign, it has none of the above, its a killer bike for 2k.
> It also has arguably the best maestro suspension design ever made, and is a top quality bike.


that was a lot of generalization PERIOD.

when are you gonna lug that thing across the pond?


----------



## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

shredjekyll said:


> I would rather put my balls in a wood chipper than ride a SPECIALIZED onepumper FSR just putting it out there.


Its okay, not all of us can be unimaginative lemmings.


----------



## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

"Eww, a well known bike brand! How vulgar..."

Would you muppets listen to yourselves....


----------



## mtnbiker831 (Sep 19, 2011)

shredjekyll said:


> I would rather put my balls in a wood chipper than ride a SPECIALIZED onepumper FSR just putting it out there.


It's hilarious how many haters their are here of specialized. I wonder how many of them have even swung a leg over one of their bikes in the last couple of years. It's ok...maybe one day you will grow up and try it. When I was on Santa Cruz bikes, I thought I would never own another specialized at the time too, so I guess I will forgive your ignorance. Then I rode an enduro around for a few minutes, sold my 1 year old nomad the next week and have been stoked since. But hey, have fun with your balls and the wood chipper...


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

mtnbiker831 said:


> It's hilarious how many haters their are here of specialized. I wonder how many of them have even swung a leg over one of their bikes in the last couple of years.


Agreed, Specialized have produced some awesome bikes in the last few years. They also have 2 good looking fattys coming out soon.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I like the idea of shunning the big brands. For my next car, I'm going to have someone make me one in his garage. 

I understand the big brand hate, but lets face it, it's more about the "image" of the brand, and being associated with it, than it is about the quality of the bikes.


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

smilinsteve said:


> I like the idea of shunning the big brands. For my next car, I'm going to have someone make me one in his garage.


Nice! Be sure to post pics.


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

mtnbiker831 said:


> It's hilarious how many haters their are here of specialized. I wonder how many of them have even swung a leg over one of their bikes in the last couple of years. It's ok...maybe one day you will grow up and try it. When I was on Santa Cruz bikes, I thought I would never own another specialized at the time too, so I guess I will forgive your ignorance. Then I rode an enduro around for a few minutes, sold my 1 year old nomad the next week and have been stoked since. But hey, have fun with your balls and the wood chipper...


It's hilarious how some people completely miss other's points. I personally don't have a vendetta against the big S, but they have been guilty of predatory and unfair business practices in the past and some won't use them because of that. It has nothing to do with the quality of their products and everything to do with the quality of their actions as a company.


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

smilinsteve said:


> I like the idea of shunning the big brands. For my next car, I'm going to have someone make me one in his garage.
> 
> I understand the big brand hate, but lets face it, it's more about the "image" of the brand, and being associated with it, than it is about the quality of the bikes.


Haha...yes. Also, as far as I know, most big brands were small brands.


----------



## bellebelle (Apr 8, 2012)

Excuse my ignorance but dont the large bike companies make the frames for a lot of the smaller companies?


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

rydbyk said:


> Haha...yes. Also, as far as I know, most big brands were small brands.


Good point. My Santa Cruz was welded in the USA in 2001. I remember when Santa Cruz magazine ads were little black and white back of the mag type ads showing that weird homemade looking Heckler frame. Now look at them!

And Specialized was truly a Pioneer in early Mountain bikes. The Stumpjumper was the first mass produced mountain bike, back in 1981.

And I remember thinking of Trek as one of the coolest brands out there, from Wisconsin.

Now they are getting a bunch of crap for being big, but you don't get big unless you are doing something right.

On the other hand, to whodaphucks point, if you have a problem with them because of some specific business practices, I can't blame anyone for that. I'm not really up on the terrible things Specialized has done.


----------



## smoothie7 (May 18, 2011)

I don't have a problem with any certain brands however there are a couple of local bike shops that I won't buy anything from.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

bellebelle said:


> Excuse my ignorance but dont the large bike companies make the frames for a lot of the smaller companies?


A lot of frames by big and small companies are made in Taiwan and China, sometimes in the same factories I hear. Especially now that Carbon is replacing the metals for high end bikes, even companies like Intense and Turner have switched from "Made in USA" to "Assembled in USA", at least for part of their production.

But if you want a hand made USA built frame and think that's cool, I don't blame you. I think its cool too.

If my kids ever, ever start supporting themselves, I might just take a drive up to Steamboat Springs and plunk down my extra cash to Kent Erikson for custom Titanium frame, then crack open a beer and sit back and watch him weld it for me.


----------



## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

I wouldn't buy a bike that didn't have a lifetime warranty on the frame. 

If they don't have the confidence in their bike to back it up with a lifetime warranty then it gives me little confidence in the product I'm buying.

Apart from that any brand is fine for me if it rides well and fits my budget.


----------



## mudhen (Aug 16, 2012)

Nope....

All cats are gray in the dark.

I'll buy whatever I want, but thanks for asking :thumbsup:

mudhen


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

smilinsteve said:


> And Specialized was truly a Pioneer in early Mountain bikes. The Stumpjumper was the first mass produced mountain bike, back in 1981.


Ummm... Pioneer? No! Mass produced? Yes. The thing is, it was a spot on copy of a Tom Ritchey frame which he got directly from Ritchey. Read up on your Specialized history... Mike S built his company on the shoulders of others and still has the balls to sue for patent or copyright infringement. WTF!!?? Specialized makes great bikes and will never get a dollar from me.


----------



## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

I don't know, 

I owned all kinds of bikes in my life. From a second hand bike my father got for me when I was nine, to a $3000 bike. Every bike I ever owned meant something and I took care of it, like it did.

They all have their place.


----------



## Naturally Aspirated (Aug 17, 2011)

Only bike brand I would never buy are the ones sold in stores like Wal-Mart, Target, etc. It seems to me that people hate on the big, name brand bikes, just to hate on them. Like they are some kind of bad ass rebel and too cool for not going with what's popular...


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

Naturally Aspirated said:


> Only bike brand I would never buy are the ones sold in stores like Wal-Mart, Target, etc. It seems to me that people hate on the big, name brand bikes, just to hate on them. Like they are some kind of bad ass rebel and too cool for not going with what's popular...


Like the brands that are in Walmart and Target? :skep:


----------



## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

chuckha62 said:


> Ummm... Pioneer? No! Mass produced? Yes. The thing is, it was a spot on copy of a Tom Ritchey frame which he got directly from Ritchey. Read up on your Specialized history... Mike S built his company on the shoulders of others and still has the balls to sue for patent or copyright infringement. WTF!!?? Specialized makes great bikes and will never get a dollar from me.


If that's the reason people aren't buying Specialized bikes then I assume you all never use an Apple or Microsoft product as well as those companies have done exactly the same thing...


----------



## mtnbiker831 (Sep 19, 2011)

mbco1975 said:


> If that's the reason people aren't buying Specialized bikes then I assume you all never use an Apple or Microsoft product as well as those companies have done exactly the same thing...


We just found the last Linux user!


----------



## mudpuppy (Feb 7, 2004)

Worst customer service I have ever experienced was with Specialized Canada, I will never buy another one of their bikes...too bad because they are putting out some good product.


----------



## Dougie (Aug 29, 2004)

This thread delivers an acceptable amount of entertainment.


----------



## johnlh (Aug 16, 2008)

I would never purchase a new Matt Chester bike:thumbsup:


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Here's a loooonnnggg article on basically the whole life story of Specialized founder Mike Sinyard.

Mike Sinyard, Specialized CEO and Founder: Is He the Steve Jobs of Cycling? | Bicycling Magazine


----------



## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Niner...and probably the big S (because i've owned enough of them).

And I really would never buy any crappy bike from walmart etc.

and haha THIS:


johnlh said:


> Harley-Davidson. I can't stand the way those over-priced pieces of crap sound.


----------



## likeaboss (Jan 1, 2012)

I never really thought about this before but last weekend I watched "Klunkerz" and they strongly implied that Specialized stole their first mtb design from Tom Ritchey.


----------



## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Specialized. And I own two of them. Their customer service sucks, they do not take care of people after the sale, and they are cocky. No to mention WAY overpriced. I'm done with them.


----------



## rustybkr (Mar 30, 2010)

Specialized, I don't like anything about the company. I know its not accurate, but I always think "noob" when I see someone riding one?


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

rustybkr said:


> Specialized, I don't like anything about the company. I know its not accurate, but I always think "noob" when I see someone riding one?


Yes, and also people who think that they are so much better than everyone else on the trails.


----------



## wintersolstice (Feb 26, 2012)

There's really only two I would "never" buy (instead of just really dislike):
Huffy
Mongoose

Both based on incredibly bad personal experiences.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Dougie said:


> This thread delivers an acceptable amount of entertainment.


an abundance, at times.... :lol:


----------



## Goinslo (Sep 30, 2009)

Not including department store bikes. Any manufacturer that is not selling 26" wheeled bikes. I'm not against a larger wheel size but don't cast away those riders that will always ride a 26", because they are stubborn, retro grouch, or just have so much fun on the 26" wheel they don't have any desire to seek out a different wheel size. And as a side note I wouldn't buy Specialized, Santa Cruz, Giant and Trek because they are so common. Yes I do realize that they make awesome rigs, because if they didn't make great bikes they would not be so popular. I just like to be different and ride a bike (Knolly Endorphin) that is not so common in my neck of the woods.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

rustybkr said:


> Specialized, I don't like anything about the company. I know its not accurate, but I always think "noob" when I see someone riding one?


I didn't know Tom Ritchey invented the simple diamond bicycle frame. Look at the pictures from 1981. there was nothing unique to be stolen.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

query to all who refuse to buy a specialized because mike "stole" ritchey's frame design and had it mass produced: "was ritchey the first to use the design of his frame?"

exhibit 1:

1981 ritchey palo alto









exhibit 2:

1898 f.n. chainless:









notice any similarities in frame design and proportion?

naturally, all those who refuse to buy a specialized merely because mike "stole" ritchey's frame design will now refuse to buy all ritchey products as well - since tom blatantly stole his design and unscrupulously tried to build his company on the shoulders of others.

for that matter, shouldn't that righteous indignation and ire be directed at ANY bike manufacturer subsequent to the late 1800's??? after all, every last one of them are nothing but filthy, disgraceful, design pilfering copycats.... :madmax:


----------



## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

monogod said:


> query to all who refuse to buy a specialized because mike "stole" ritchey's frame design and had it mass produced: "was ritchey the first to use the design of his frame?"
> 
> exhibit 1:
> 
> ...


I feel as though the number of people who refuse to buy specialized "merely because mike "stole" ritchey"s frame design" is around 10..... the amount of people who refuse to buy specialized because they suck is likely in the trillions.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

monogod said:


> query to all who refuse to buy a specialized because mike "stole" ritchey's frame design and had it mass produced: "was ritchey the first to use the design of his frame?"
> 
> exhibit 1:
> 
> ...


But Ritchey was the first man to build MOUNTAIN BIKES, not cruisers. When Specialized saw the Ritchey they copied it completely. When I look at a picture of a Ritchey and a picture of a Stumpjumper the only difference is seat height, tyres, and that the Ritchey has a cooler almost negative stem.


----------



## rustybkr (Mar 30, 2010)

shredjekyll said:


> I feel as though the number of people who refuse to buy specialized "merely because mike "stole" ritchey"s frame design" is around 10..... the amount of people who refuse to buy specialized because they suck is likely in the trillions.


 lol


----------



## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

I could care less about specialized stealing the "design", there much more modern reasons to dislike specialized, poor customer service and proprietary parts are my 2 favorite worse aspects of specialized.


----------



## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

What irks me about the big name manufacturers is not the bike, it is the lemming jurkfook fools who blather on and on senselessly about their love of brandX.

We all react differently to marketing (turns me off), have different ideas of what geometry works, preconceived notions about a good vs bad warranty and bias based on personal experiences:

Some Giant rider smelled BAD
This Cannondale guy was a jerk
Shimano reps are arrogant
The Brain is so awesome (for the brief period of time it worked properly before puking)
My balls don't like 10-speed chain droppage to the maxxx
...

I read what others have to say, talk to local riders, ride what looks like a winner, make my own assessment and don't give a rats arse if others want to drink the same flavor Kool-Aid or not :thumbsup:


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

CannondaleF9 said:


> *But Ritchey was the first man to build MOUNTAIN BIKES, not cruisers.* When Specialized saw the Ritchey they copied it completely. When I look at a picture of a Ritchey and a picture of a Stumpjumper the only difference is seat height, tyres, and that the Ritchey has a cooler almost negative stem.


No he wasn't.


----------



## Kevin_Federline (Nov 19, 2008)

Who's ritchey?

You guys are old.

Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

this is more of a hate thread than a passion thread


----------



## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

ehigh said:


> this is more of a hate thread than a passion thread


I hate with a passion.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Ritchey was the first man to build MOUNTAIN BIKES


nope. :nono:


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

CannondaleF9 said:


> But Ritchey was the first man to build MOUNTAIN BIKES, not cruisers.


Negatory. Research it for awhile and report back.


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

He designed some pretty nice dropouts.


----------



## Undies (Aug 25, 2005)

I'm not going to defend Specialized business practices because frankly I don't really know all the facts. But this talk of Specialized copying ideas from others reminds me of my favorite sports car: the 1970 Datsun 240Z. Nissan basically made a reliable, affordable copy of a Jaguar. Could it be said that Specialized took an existing formula and made it accessible to more people? 

I currently own only two LBS-purchased bikes, a Trek and a Specialized. In each case the brand was irrelevant to me, I purchased these bikes because I got excellent service (and generous discounts) from a LBS. 

My next bike will probably be a Salsa Mukluk, although I should say that Salsa is the only bike company with which I can say I've had any trouble (extremely SLOW response to a warranty claim on cracked Delgado rims).


----------



## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

I veer very far away from bike made by Lynskey (under their name or other names) as I hate sliders which they can't seem to vary from and there's something aesthetically I don't like about their bikes in general. You can add Cannondale (Crack-n-fail is what I call them) and Trek.... the last because other than the Former Gary Fisher bikes, they have nothing in the bike range that appeals to me in any form. Sadly, I'm a huge Bontrager fan but I find it difficult to support Trek.


----------



## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

Wouldn't buy Ibis-too much money
Wouldn't buy Specialized-I like being unique and don't like there business practices
Wouldn't buy Trek- don't like g2 geometry
Wouldn't buy anything from HBC-(beat a dead horse)


----------



## TheDocTx (Apr 24, 2013)

If its the right bike with the right specs at the right price, I couldn't give two shits what it says on the down tube.


----------



## Coal-Cracker (May 4, 2010)

Not riding a bike because it is "too common" is essentially allowing other people to determine what you ride. 

I'm with TheDocTX, if it has the right specs and price (also the right service and warranty) I really don't care what name is on the bike.


----------



## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

I ride whatever I find affordable and fitting my needs at the moment. If it meets my needs I'll ride it and I don't give rats ass about what anyone thinks about it. 

It's not what you ride, it's how your ride it.


----------



## Rincon98 (Apr 20, 2013)

Next Powerclimber! Lol not! Cannondale seems odd to me, don't ask me why. I do like spider tho!


----------



## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

Though they don't make mountain bikes, I wouldn't buy a Lemond. Despite the fact that he was proven right, Lemond's pompousness during the whole Lance thing really annoyed me to the point I wouldn't do business with him.


----------



## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

oh well


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

skiahh said:


> Though they don't make mountain bikes, I wouldn't buy a Lemond. *Despite the fact that he was proven right*, Lemond's pompousness during the whole Lance thing really annoyed me to the point I wouldn't do business with him.


"_despite the fact he was PROVEN right_" lemond annoyed you??? for reals? looks like you've got "pompousness" confused with "integrity".

and "during the whole lance thing"??? you do know what that whole "lance thing" was, don't you? lance cheated, lied about it, and destroyed people's lives/careers/reputations/finances for exposing him.

so now i'm really curious... exactly what annoyed you about lemond? that he exposed lyin' lance? that he stuck to his guns in the face of worldwide pressure? that he never backed down despite what it cost him?

and then when he's proven right you take exception with him for it? what would YOUR demeanor have been if you were in lemond's place?

you're annoyed at the guy who was right FOR OVER A DECADE in exposing the biggest disgrace, liar, cheater, bully in the ENTIRE HISTORY of cycling? you're annoyed at the guy who had the honor and integrity to speak out about it and expose it when everyone from lance's sponsors to the top echelon of the UCI was aware and complicit in l.a.'s cheating? a guy who lost friends, money, and reputation by choosing integrity over all of them? really???? wow... imho that says a LOT about you fo sho, bro. ut:

do you realize there's a difference between pompousness and righteous indignation, don't you? reality check: look at the accomplishments of lemond and then compare them to lance's. compare lemond's integrity vs. lance's. both will go down in the annals of cycling, albeit for DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED reasons.

EVERY SINGLE tdf lance won he did so by CHEATING. does that annoy you? lance vehemently denied it and vociferously lied about it for well over a decade. does that annoy you? lance spent TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars to destroy those who spoke out about his doping (lemond being one of them). does that annoy you? lance received multimillion dollar settlements for liable/slander against those who exposed him for the lying, cheating, doping scum that he was. does that annoy you? lance destroyed the reputations and careers of many subsequent to them speaking out about his doping/cheating/bullying/lying. does that annoy you? lance retaliated against lemond by using his connections with trek (who was sponsoring him at the time) to get them to drop their licensing agreement with lemond - costing lemond millions in lost revenue. does that annoy you? would you still buy a trek knowing this?

taking all of this into consideration you have the audacity to take umbrage with lemond for standing his ground against lyin' lance??? seriously???? :shocked:

bottom line: considering all that lemond lost both directly and indirectly because he had the integrity to speak up and stick to his guns he was actually quite humble both prior and subsequent to lyin' lance finally coming clean and VINDICATING lemond by corroborating what he had been saying for years.


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

one can have integrity and be pompous at the same time. 

not to mention being an overbearing a-hole and and online bully.

people have a right to their opinions no matter how f'ked up you think those opinions are.

my two cents--whether you like it or not.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Gerth said:


> Any bike from any manufacturer that ignores the Clydesdale market.


So Gerth do you think these two would go good together? You could get your "Cracksworth".


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

shekky said:


> one can have integrity and be pompous at the same time.
> 
> not to mention being an overbearing a-hole and and online bully.
> 
> ...


so you're saying that expression of a conflicting opinion somehow infringes this right and constitutes being an "_online bully_"? :skep:

i'm genuinely curious... how do you reconcile clamoring to protect and defend the right to have and share an opinion immediately after you lambaste and insult someone merely for exercising this selfsame right? perhaps you justify it because you think the opinion shared was "f'ked up"?

if so, then you label yourself "_an overbearing a-hole and online bully_". if not, then you're trampling this right of others for no reason at all. either way, you've just contradicted yourself.

alanis morissette and others might call it "ironic", but imho there's a much better word for it.

my .02--whether you like it or not. :thumbsup:


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

monogod, your behavior online in the over the years has repeatedly demonstrated what kind of person you are. 

i will not waste any more bandwidth responding to your self righteous drivel.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

shekky said:


> monogod, i picked a fight with you and it didn't turn out like i planned. in fact, it totally blew up in my face and i actually painted myself into a nasty corner i can't get out of. so to deflect attention away from all this i'll personally insult you and then run away.


fify :thumbsup:


----------



## Atl-Biker (Feb 8, 2012)

This thread delivers in a big way. Some great laughs. Not really a bike I wouldn't consider although I'm not crazy about the way Giants look. Would totally get one if the price was right and I liked the ride.


----------



## Mazukea (Jul 9, 2012)

Worst Thread Ever


:nono::nono::nono:

Have you guys forgotten what your mama taught you?

"If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it!" 

The OP will get a neg rep for starting this bulls**t thread. It was obvious trolling. He didn't want to reveal his own choices until later? Wow.


----------



## ti-triodes (Jun 25, 2008)

Mazukea said:


> Worst Thread Ever
> 
> :nono::nono::nono:
> 
> ...


Actually i didn't think it got bad until the tired old LeMond/Lance thing reared it's ugly head up. Geez, it's over people. Go for a ride and get over it!


----------



## 2bfluid (Aug 17, 2008)

I put a personal ban on Cannondale. Three recalls on a frame. Then they gave me a new aluminum Jeckyl to replace a carbon fiber Raven. Then they had my shock from Feb until October. No sh*t! The whole season....

Done with them forever.


And I hate the proprietary bullshit


----------



## Bike&Fish (Oct 12, 2013)

I'm still pretty new to MTB, but man there is a lot of passion here. I love reading all the reviews and stories from all you guys. Having as much fun on the forum as on the trails. I haven't ridden enough bikes to find one or a maker I "hate" yet. But...

Reading up on some of the this guy stole this design stuff reminds me too much of my industry. Fishing. I've been a pro fisherman for a long time and have been making plastic fishing baits for 30 years. A bait design we came out with in the mid 90's became super popular and was catching a TON of fish. Now almost every single plastics manufacturer has a bait that looks "very similar" to our design. I think this is just human nature or business greed. If something works, or is popular people want to jump on board and try to get a piece of the action. The way of the world...


----------



## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

monogod said:


> "_despite the fact he was PROVEN right_" lemond annoyed you???
> 
> bunch of Greg fanboi blathering....


It's not that he said what was on his mind, though he probably should have just kept his trap shut, but HOW he said it. And it's not what he said, either.

He basically said there's no way Lance could have done what HE (Lemond) did without doping. Let me say that again. His attitude wasn't that Lance doped, but that Lance couldn't have accomplished what Lemond did without the help of the drugs. That's not integrity nor righteous indignation, but pure pomposity.

How do we know Greg didn't dope? Doping was going on in the peleton during his career. He made a remarkable comeback from being shot and won "in dramatic" fashion that year. Sounds familiar, no?

His stance against doping doesn't say anything since we know hypocrisy runs rampant in pro sports on the subject.

Maybe I'm just cynical now about the whole thing and think they're all guilty by association. But it still doesn't change my opinion on HOW Lemond presented himself during the whole stupid scandal.


----------



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I see too many a Mongoose, particularly the low end kiddie bikes.


----------



## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

Crankout said:


> I see too many a Mongoose, particularly the low end kiddie bikes.


Thats why you buy one and absolutely embarrass everyone with their Treks, Specializeds, and Santa Cruzs on your local trails when you rip past them on your fake bike


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

skiahh said:


> It's not that he said what was on his mind, though he probably should have just kept his trap shut, but HOW he said it. And it's not what he said, either.
> 
> He basically said there's no way Lance could have done what HE (Lemond) did without doping. Let me say that again. His attitude wasn't that Lance doped, but that Lance couldn't have accomplished what Lemond did without the help of the drugs. That's not integrity nor righteous indignation, but pure pomposity.
> 
> ...


fanboi blathering, eh? hardly. i don't have a dog in the fight -- just pointing out a few facts. in fact, i'm not so much "pro-lemond" as i am "anti-lance", so if you'd have said "bunch of lance bashing" you'd have been pretty much right on target. :thumbsup: :lol:

aside from that gaffe, however, thanks for a coherent and rational response.

correct me if i've misunderstood you, but it seems you're saying you took lemond's position regarding lance's "wins" as "no one can do what i did without doping" - as in "i'm so good no one could accomplish what i did on natural talent alone". however, that is NOT what he said. if you have evidence to the contrary, please provide it.

what lemond said was that lance was an average rider at best, and that there was no way he could have had such an increase in ability without doping.

look at l.a.'s career and you'll see he was nothing more than a pack filler of average (at best) ability who frequently would DNF. then all the sudden he's blowing everyone out of the water by HUGE margins. lemond said this was due to doping rather than natural talent or ability.

in fact, it wasn't until lance KEPT WINNING that lemond even said anything. people can have a good year where everything goes right and an average rider can excel and even win. however, when a pathologically average rider suddenly wins year after year after year after year it draws suspicion.  lance got greedy, rather than just winning once or twice and letting it go. had he done so chances are no one, including lemond, would have ever commented on it.

however, when lemond did comment on lance's "accomplishments" he never said or even remotely implied that his position was that he (lemond) was such an awesome, unequaled rider that no one could do what he did without doping. he simply said that given lance's career record combined with his poor, lackluster (at best) performance for years (including just prior to his first TDF win), that doping was the ONLY explanation for this sudden, superhuman transformation.

...and he was right. :thumbsup:


----------



## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

monogod said:


> correct me if i've misunderstood you, but it seems you're saying you took lemond's position regarding lance's "wins" as "no one can do what i did without doping" - as in "i'm so good no one could accomplish what i did on natural talent alone". however, that is NOT what he said. if you have evidence to the contrary, please provide it.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Yes, he was right.

And I don't necessarily disagree with what he said, but to me, the way it came across was that Lance couldn't possibly have done what I did without doping.

Not "no one", just Lance. Almost like it was personal. And, perhaps, on some level as another American winning and beating his record, it was. But again, that's just my perception, so there is no proof. It's how it came across. Maybe it's just me or maybe I'm just the one who vocalized it. But you can't demand proof for someone's perspective or opinion.

I admit this is completely my perception and opinion. And it's doubtful that a brief discussion on this forum will change that perception, so that's why I wouldn't buy a Lemond. I just didn't like the way he presented himself during the whole fiasco and it left a bad taste enough to not even consider doing business with him by buying a Lemond bike.

Which was what the whole topic was about in the first place, right? We all have our reasons!


----------



## johnlh (Aug 16, 2008)

monogod said:


> fanboi blathering, eh? hardly. i don't have a dog in the fight -- just pointing out a few facts. in fact, i'm not so much "pro-lemond" as i am "anti-lance", so if you'd have said "bunch of lance bashing" you'd have been pretty much right on target. :thumbsup: :lol:
> 
> aside from that gaffe, however, thanks for a coherent and rational response.
> 
> ...


Just take all of this here guys:The Doping Forum


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

Niner - I don't ride 29ers, and that's all they make

Cannondale, Giant - Their bikes just don't handle right, every time I've taken one on a demo ride I wanted off the bike within a minute. They're also the only bikes I've ever crashed on a demo ride when I was JRA and not even pushing it.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

aerius said:


> Niner - I don't ride 29ers, and that's all they make
> 
> Cannondale, Giant - Their bikes just don't handle right, every time I've taken one on a demo ride I wanted off the bike within a minute. They're also the only bikes I've ever crashed on a demo ride when I was JRA and not even pushing it.


If you crashed a bike it was your fault or the trail's fault, not the bike's fault.


----------



## fahza29er (Jun 26, 2012)

CannondaleF9 said:


> If you crashed a bike it was your fault or the trail's fault, not the bike's fault.


Not all the time, I took a pro flex out and went OTB the first 100 yards in the trail. Got up went WTF got back on went another 25 yards OTB again, now getting up with as serious WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not sure if you know the bike, old school FS, had a front fork that could be used in a normal up down stroke or a "J" stroke which pulls the wheel up under the frame in the shape of a "J". Totally shifts your weight and OTB you go. We were on a trip and it was a loner bike as mine was broken and getting fixed under warranty so they gave me this thing. Luckily there was a great LBS where we were riding and they knew exactly what was wrong when we took it in. Sometimes it is the bike.


----------



## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

aerius said:


> Niner - I don't ride 29ers, and that's all they make
> 
> Cannondale, Giant - Their bikes just don't handle right, every time I've taken one on a demo ride I wanted off the bike within a minute. They're also the only bikes I've ever crashed on a demo ride when I was JRA and not even pushing it.


lol "their bikes just don't handle right" and the winner of the EWS was on a cannondale... clearly the handling is garbage cause you don't need to be precise to succeed in enduro nowadays...


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> If you crashed a bike it was your fault or the trail's fault, not the bike's fault.


Sure, it could be my fault, maybe I just need to spend a few years unlearning all my current habits and relearning how to ride Giants & Cannondales (yes, I'm getting old, and my learning curve sucks). Maybe if I threw 25 years of experience & habits out the window and started from scratch I'd rule and kick ass on those bikes. You could be right on the money. But it doesn't matter since my life's too short to put in that kind of time & effort, and there's bikes from at least a dozen other companies that work great for me right off the bat.

Bottom line - they don't work for me, I ain't buying them. They work great for others but not for me.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

skiahh said:


> Yes, he was right.
> 
> And I don't necessarily disagree with what he said, but to me, the way it came across was that Lance couldn't possibly have done what I did without doping.
> 
> ...


i wasn't demanding proof of your opinion, but was just sharing that imho lemond was very clear on what he was saying and i was simply asking for any statements to the contrary in case i didn't have all the info at my disposal.

and you're 100% right that things can be taken in a manner they weren't intended... as ANY interweb forum is proof! :lol: look at all the panties that get knotted up around here for no reason at all other than people are far too often looking for a reason to be a victim or see the worst in their fellow man -- so they take something said in humor as desecration of a venerated object. many, many things said in humor around here are taken as anything but. in saying that, i'm not saying you're 100% wrong for how you took what lemond said, but simply that based on all that i'm aware of him saying i don't share your perception. but hey, nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree! :thumbsup:

but right on for sharing your! what IS what the whole topic was about and i enjoyed the discussion.

happy trails, bro. hope our paths cross on the singletrack sometime....


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

aerius said:


> Niner - I don't ride 29ers, and that's all they make
> 
> Cannondale, Giant - Their bikes just don't handle right, every time I've taken one on a demo ride I wanted off the bike within a minute. They're also the only bikes I've ever crashed on a demo ride when I was JRA and not even pushing it.


in my experience anytime "jra" is involved it's usually 110% rider error.

just sayin....


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

2bfluid said:


> And I hate the proprietary bullshit


They are all the same now, there is basically nothing "standard" left now.... Pedal spindle threads and grip diameter need updating then we'll have nothing left.

Nearly gone are the days when you could build a new bike from your parts bin.

Q-factor and BB's give me the shizz.


----------



## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

aerius said:


> Niner - I don't ride 29ers, and that's all they make
> 
> Cannondale, Giant - Their bikes just don't handle right, every time I've taken one on a demo ride I wanted off the bike within a minute. They're also the only bikes I've ever crashed on a demo ride when I was JRA and not even pushing it.


"Long live the Luddite!"

As a joke... I just had to write this. I don't ride 26'ers so I won't by from X company as they make 26'ers (luckily... they're almost dead).

I tried so hard not to comment and lasted as long as I could. aerius... I'm just giving you a hard time. From what I can tell from this little statement... I think you and I have have VASTLY different ideas of the perfect bicycle (and that's super cool)... at least we both ride. I will agree with your second comment though... mostly because I don't trust the big C (their alternative moniker doesn't come without reason) and G doesn't have a bike that interests me at all. The biggest problem is their choice of materials... they primarily use aluminum and I'm a steel/Ti or carbon guy.


----------



## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Specialized. Ever. Refuse to read the rest of the thread.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

mtnbiker831 said:


> .I guess I don't need to feel special on the trail by riding a boutique bike.


This...

A guy I know has a large head, because he is the only one that rides an all steel Surly with us. Constantly rubbing in that his steel frame is the way to go and aluminum sucks.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Silentfoe said:


> Specialized. Ever. Refuse to read the rest of the thread.


All we have around here are Specialized, Haro and a Fuji dealer..

I saw a lot of anti Specialized post in here, not quite sure why?

I think their bikes are awesome in looks and the ones I sat on, feel really plush and quality.


----------



## arkon11 (Jul 26, 2009)

I just know that I plan on buying 26" Knollys for the rest of my life. Unless I'm looking for a hardtail that is.


----------



## scooterendo (Jan 30, 2004)

"Some like Cadillacs and some like Olds, some like anything as long as it rolls" (Ry Cooder). Any more info on this 'first man to build mountain bikes' thing? Hell, I did a lot of research and I still couldn't figure it out. I'm (still) going with (frame) Craig Mitchell and (frame + all new parts) Joe Breeze. The first ones to make complete bikes in any significant numbers? I'm going with Ritchey/Fisher/Kelly's MountainBikes and the Koski/Lawwill Pro Cruisers welded by Terry Knight in Oakland. 'Significant numbers' is very subjective, I admit. A bigger question is: Isn't a bicycle the ENTIRE sum of the parts... not just a frame and fork, but ALL the 250-odd bits? FWIW, the only part out the entire parts spec, every single piece, on the first run SJs that was different from MountainBikes was the brake levers. SJ=Tommaselli/MB=Magura. Interestingly, my 1980 MB came with what kind of levers? Yup, Tommasellis. CK and Gary used what they could get their hands on. I think the whole thing is still a mystery and that's cool with me.


Dirty $anchez said:


> Negatory. Research it for awhile and report back.


----------



## Oldfatbaldguy (Nov 4, 2010)

Great thread.
Never liked the way GT's look with those weird seat stays. But that's OK, if you like them.

My favorite bike is a 1949 Wards (Murray) klunker. Its been welded back together several times. This winter, the frame will be replaced by a 1941 Schwinn DX. A Surly Pugsley, and a Rocky Mountain Vertex sits in the shed nearby them, along with an English Raleigh, an old Sekini and early 70's Schwinn Sport Tourer. 

The only bike not unique and interesting (hip and ironic?) is the Rocky. 

When you're old, your skills are slowly atrophying, you ride unique bikes to start conversations, becuse you sure arent going to do it with skilz.


----------



## RacerScott (Jul 7, 2013)

I would never buy a Scott, because my name is Scott. Love my Specialized though...


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

wish i could find me a 41 dx


----------



## Oldfatbaldguy (Nov 4, 2010)

'41 DX: looked long and hard. This one was actually badged with a chain store headbadge, under several coats of rattle can paint, the fork had been replaced with something out of a '70's cheapie 10-speed and the rear wheel was a 20" holding a well-rotted '60's slick. Probably some kid's prized custom 30 years ago, but now its a P.O.S and the owner was glad to let it go cheap.

Its going to get a faux-Alan-Bonds makeover and be my pride and joy.


----------



## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Oldfatbaldguy said:


> Great thread.
> Never liked the way GT's look with those weird seat stays. But that's OK, if you like them.
> 
> My favorite bike is a 1949 Wards (Murray) klunker. Its been welded back together several times. This winter, the frame will be replaced by a 1941 Schwinn DX. A Surly Pugsley, and a Rocky Mountain Vertex sits in the shed nearby them, along with an English Raleigh, an old Sekini and early 70's Schwinn Sport Tourer.
> ...


I agree with you on the GT's.... worst riding bike I've ever sat on... well next to the Rocky Mountain Vertex when I was testing bikes and writing for one of the biggest 29'er websites.

I love old bikes too... could be why we're a two Retrotec household. As to getting unique bikes... it's because I like to look at and ride unique bikes.... not really because I want to start conversations... I'd rather be riding. Old? I don't know how old you are but I'm 51 and ride fully rigid singlespeeds in things like the Tour Divide and in the Alps where I live... I think after 20 years of mountain biking I can use my skillz just fine. If people want to let theirs atrophy, that's o.k. with me but the fact that I can ride my bike down a rocky decent before the locals get done adjusting their seats makes me think I'm o.k.

All that was to say... it sounds like you have some sweet old bikes and I wouldn't sell yourself short just because you might be older than some of the kids who are now riding. Look at McClung... the guys no spring chicken and can beat most of the locals up a mountain.... or Ned Overend... the list goes on.


----------



## snowpunk (Apr 17, 2007)

RacerScott said:


> I would never buy a Scott, because my name is Scott.


That's actually one of the best reasons I've read in this whole thread


----------



## Oldfatbaldguy (Nov 4, 2010)

Gonna be 56 when spring comes; not that old. I look at Victor Vicente, for example, for inspiration.

But I see the videos of the guys in Oregon, for example, between the trees: one slight misjudgement and you've made an impression on the forest. I don't have that kind of instant reaction time anymore and older guys don't bounce off trees as easily, LOL! I limped until January last year after a November crash on the Klunker.

The biking is fun: ride what you like. BUT, there is just a little bit of the individualist in everyone, and the old bikes feed that need for me. It doesn't hurt that I like to tinker, I have space to keep 'em and work on 'em. Not everyone does, and that's cool, too.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

RacerScott said:


> I would never buy a Scott, because my name is Scott. Love my Specialized though...


That's ironic because I would never buy a Specialized because my name is Specialized.


----------



## Bike&Fish (Oct 12, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> That's ironic because I would never buy a Specialized because my name is Specialized.


This is the best one of the whole thread... 
Thanks DJ


----------



## johnlh (Aug 16, 2008)

I bet Ben Serotta feels the same way about bikes bearing his name.


RacerScott said:


> I would never buy a Scott, because my name is Scott. Love my Specialized though...


----------



## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

Zachariah said:


> Never say never. Marin just stepped-up their game recently. Before, I would never think about a heavy, clunky Marin(except the Nail Trail HT).


I own a '14 Nail Trail 29er...my first mtb. My point of reference is totally the NT, but I'd be interested why you have a soft-spot, and how has Marin stepped-up their game...in your opinion?


----------



## andy f (Jan 13, 2004)

Only two MTB companies I steer clear of: 1. Specialized due to their aggressive sales and litigation practices. I think what they did to Epic designs and Volagi stifles creativity and entrepreneurship in the bicycle industry. 2. Ellsworth because the owner directly accused me of trying to warranty a stolen frame several years ago. I had my receipt in hand and my local shop backed me up so I eventually got the claim covered but the guy was such an incredible d!ckhead that I sold my replacement frame and bought something else.


----------



## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

RacerScott said:


> I would never buy a Scott, because my name is Scott. Love my Specialized though...


That's ironic because I would never buy a Giant because I'm a giant.


----------



## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

RacerScott said:


> I would never buy a Scott, because my name is Scott. Love my Specialized though...


I'd actually consider buying a Scott cause my name is Scott...how cool is that!


----------



## Tavm (Nov 2, 2013)

Well this thread was enlightening. Here I thought the only bikes to steer clear of were the dept store models...because some BRANDS can be found with bikes a across a variety of price points, quality levels, and sale locations.

But apparently it's dept store bikes...aaaaand Specialized, Trek, Giant, Santa Cruz, and Cannondale. Rock on.

Personally, right now I'm a GIANT whore. I think the bikes are well made, with a good mix of name brand and support brand componentry. And I like the fact they back up their product in a relatively hassle free way with warranty and crash replacement all at a decent price point. Their color schemes need some work though.


----------



## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Haggis said:


> "Eww, a well known bike brand! How vulgar..."
> 
> Would you muppets listen to yourselves....


Haggis I was thinking the same thing. Incredible the foolish reasons people will not buy a certain company's bike :lol: ridiculous


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Tavm said:


> Well this thread was enlightening. Here I thought the only bikes to steer clear of were the dept store models...because some BRANDS can be found with bikes a across a variety of price points, quality levels, and sale locations.
> 
> But apparently it's dept store bikes...aaaaand Specialized, Trek, Giant, Santa Cruz, and Cannondale. Rock on.
> 
> Personally, right now I'm a GIANT whore. I think the bikes are well made, with a good mix of name brand and support brand componentry. And I like the fact they back up their product in a relatively hassle free way with warranty and crash replacement all at a decent price point. Their color schemes need some work though.


Did you just admit to being a Giant whore?


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

I will never own a Gary Fisher, because my name is Gary Fisher....

Oh, snap, I do own one...


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Sock Monkey said:


> I've always been turned off by the ubiquity of the big companies, Trek, Spesh, Giant, especially Giant. They'd have to make a really great bike at a really great price for me to buy one.


Well possibly they have major ubiquity, because they make great bikes at great prices?


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Biohazard74 said:


> Haggis I was thinking the same thing. Incredible the foolish reasons people will not buy a certain company's bike :lol: ridiculous


IMO Specialized has some nice looking bikes and built well. I don't get why some on here would "never buy from Spesh" Yes they are big, but isn't that good? means they sell a lot of bikes, because....they have great bikes??


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

I get though why people dislike everything is "specialized or Giant" around town... Here all I see is Specialized everything.... with an occasional appearance from a Trek or Cannondale. Saw a Surly once too. But mostly it's Specialized.

I don't care....I like the looks of their bikes a lot the colors the way they feel....


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Nearly everyone I ride with is on a spesh, they are nice, but with so many choices of bikes, why ride what everyone rides? And why buy a bike with propietary anything. I go as far as to get a rare bike, then repaint so I have literally the only one

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Can't believe I haven't seen "DiamondBack" on here... IMO some damn good bikes and affordable.... I still have my 2006 Response....still rides well and looks great. They are well built bikes.

People are stupid....cause they assume they are junk bikes due to being sold by ***** and chain stores. Tons better than a Walmart bike by far....just have a cruddy image and it's too bad.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

FastBanana said:


> Nearly everyone I ride with is on a spesh, they are nice, but with so many choices of bikes, why ride what everyone rides? And why buy a bike with propietary anything. I go as far as to get a rare bike, then repaint so I have literally the only one
> 
> Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk


For me it's convenience.... It's all they sell here, plus honestly I love the looks of Species bikes. So flowy and fast looking they are. I'd like to check out some Surly bikes, but it seems so hard to find anyplace that has them. The site just says we have to find a dealer, then the dealer contact Surly...Kinda like buying a fine, Italian car or something, lol


----------



## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

When I bought my bike I test rode dozens of bikes. I mean literally a dozen bikes from all makes. When I test rode my bike at the trails Giant had a test ride at I was sold. It felt the best out of all the bikes I rode & for much less $$$$. Although money wasn't the issue at the time I was just in awe of how well it rode. And I test rode much more expensive boutique brands which I was going to buy just because everyone told me too. I'm glad I went with the bike I bought.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

I'm not going to be satisfied until I find a Italian, one-off, bronzed and polished, carbon wheeled, One of 5 built, bike.

When I first got into biking I saw a Specialized bike and thought it was for handicapped people, LMAO....cause it said Specialized.

I guess now people don't feel so Special on a Specialized, because everyone rides the damn things now. They should rename them "Commonised"??


----------



## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Put me down for "if it's the right frame, I'll buy it" regardles of who's name is on it. 

Last time around, that name was Transition. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again, great company and great CS and all, but, the next time around it just might say Knolly on the downtube.

One thing is for sure, I'll probably never buy a complete bike. For me, buy the frame and then source all the pieces/parts to get the exact build I want. That's how I did my TR Covert. Even if it isn't the cheapest way to do it, I would rather have the spec exactly how I want it. But with Ebay and sales\price blow-outs, it's usually cheaper, anyway.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Eric.Bravery said:


> For me it's convenience.... It's all they sell here, plus honestly I love the looks of Species bikes. So flowy and fast looking they are. I'd like to check out some Surly bikes, but it seems so hard to find anyplace that has them. The site just says we have to find a dealer, then the dealer contact Surly...Kinda like buying a fine, Italian car or something, lol


And I bet what you do buy it won't be carbon fiber.  http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/why-would-you-buy-carbon-mountain-bike-882632.html


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And I bet what you do buy it won't be carbon fiber.  http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/why-would-you-buy-carbon-mountain-bike-882632.html


Correct, because they don't hold up in the long run. No matter whos names on it.


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Neither does aluminium. Or steel, or titanium. For 90% of us, carbon will last you long enough for it to be time for a new bike. Generally 5 years or less.

Yes steel and ti will last a long time, but nothing outlived major tech advances, unless you just don't care, then more power to you. 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk


----------



## Tavm (Nov 2, 2013)

I doubt there are any tech advances that would preclude someone from keeping a bike longer than 5 years.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Correct, because [carbon fiber frames] don't hold up in the long run. No matter whos names on it.


spoken either out of pure ignorance or trolling. which is it?


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

^^long run is relative. and carbon is every bit as durable as anything else.



Tavm said:


> I doubt there are any tech advances that would preclude someone from keeping a bike longer than 5 years.


Preclude? no. However, I would bet that the average rider keeps a bike 5 years or less.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Correct, because they don't hold up in the long run. No matter whos names on it.


Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.........what are you a comedian. Didn't we already go through a 75 page thread on this. How many people in that thread fet like they were banging their head gainst the wall trying to get through to you.:madman:
http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/why-would-you-buy-carbon-mountain-bike-882632.html


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

monogod said:


> spoken either out of pure ignorance or trolling. which is it?





DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.........what are you a comedian. Didn't we already go through a 75 page thread on this. How many people in that thread fet like they were banging their head gainst the wall trying to get through to you.:madman:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/why-would-you-buy-carbon-mountain-bike-882632.html


I was being sarcastic, Doh-Doh

I still have no idea why you're on this plight to show how you tried to bang it in my head..... I got the idea Carbon frames are durable and not what I originally thought, in the first few pages after I saw many replies of carbon is damn good these days.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Eric.Bravery said:


> I was being sarcastic, Doh-Doh
> 
> I still have no idea why you're on this plight to show how you tried to bang it in my head..... I got the idea Carbon frames are durable and not what I originally thought, in the first few pages after I saw many replies of carbon is damn good these days.


taking this and all the other tripe, excrement, and pablum you've spewed across mtbr during your short time here into consideration it's clear that you are either a troll master or a sock-puppet.


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

monogod said:


> taking this and all the other tripe, excrement, and pablum you've spewed across mtbr during your short time here into consideration it's clear that you are either a troll master or a sock-puppet.


*LIKE*

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Nope and nope.... I asked if Carbon frames hold up and I heard elsewhere to stay away from them, so I asked it here and got my answer. Seems they are ok. You and the other trolls were the ones that insisted I am a troll because I brought up a "Carbon VRS" thread.

Thats all I did....I made a "Carbon VRS Thread" even said I wasn't trolling, lol, cause I knew such threads would be seen that way in the weakest of mind/minds.


----------



## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

I promise my self to never ever buy a Trek but I end up with a Fisher that I like very much..









Never say never.


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

That's a pretty bike

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Nope and nope.... I asked if Carbon frames hold up and I heard elsewhere to stay away from them, so I asked it here and got my answer. Seems they are ok. You and the other trolls were the ones that insisted I am a troll because I brought up a "Carbon VRS" thread.
> 
> Thats all I did....I made a "Carbon VRS Thread" even said I wasn't trolling, lol, cause I knew such threads would be seen that way in the weakest of mind/minds.


reat <font size="5"*F*orm ou're <font size="5"*S*howing. :thumbsup:


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Correct, because they don't hold up in the long run. No matter whos names on it.





Eric.Bravery said:


> .... I got the idea Carbon frames are durable and not what I originally thought, in the first few pages after I saw many replies of carbon is damn good these days.


You're kind of all over the place, aren't you?


----------



## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Refuse to buy:

Specialized: horrible business practice to IBD
Giant: horrible business practice to IBD
Trek: horrible business practice to IBD

Have seen all 3 first hand because shops would not become "concept stores". 

GT: too many warranty frames in the short time I owned them...then horrendous treatment for warranty.


----------



## mantispf2000 (Jun 29, 2004)

Some very personal reasons for my decisions--

Refuse to buy-- Marin. Had a shop in Washington state, and I tried to represent these guys. Terrible support during my run with them. I don't even like seeing their ads in magazines.

Will buy again and again-- Mantis. Had a Profloater, and LOVED that bike. Sure hope the maggot that stole it got a face full of pavement, as I had the brakes reversed.

Cannondale-- Won a CAAD3 frame/fork on my daughter's 1st birthday, and now that she's in Heaven, I will NEVER part with it.

Trek-- My LBS set me up with sponsorship support for my riding in honor of my daughter, and didn't charge me, though they did take my card information (I wonder how his trip to Mexico was?). So, I love the bike and the support I've received from them.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

mantispf2000 said:


> Some very personal reasons for my decisions--
> 
> Refuse to buy-- Marin. Had a shop in Washington state, and I tried to represent these guys. Terrible support during my run with them. I don't even like seeing their ads in magazines.
> 
> ...


Do you realize that this thread is about bike brands you hate?


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I used to write off Specialized since I didn't like their business practices and Crank Bros since they had a durability/quality issues, but I'm riding some CB and Spec products without much complaint nor shame these days. 

I used to dislike Conti tires since I've had issues with 2 of them (casing tear and poor experience with their cheaper rubber compound model), but their higher quality models are actually very desirable still, which I'd jump on if the price came down. 

There used to be a time that I wrote off Fox as overpriced, but I actually really like their performance and would consider paying the "premium" for it. 

While not a brand thing, I really dislike misleading marketing. Hate how people come to inaccurate and overly generalized conclusions derived from DW suspension, Giant 27.5", Santa Cruz Carbon testing, and wide rim marketing. It's not that they're bad ideas, but it's more about how people get the wrong idea about it and make it out to be the greatest thing ever, even mobbing anyone that tries to question the logic and analogies supporting their understanding. 

I also dislike ugly graphics/decals/stickers, ugly tube shaping, and high maintenance, short life span products. Giant and Spec made some cheesy looking frames with their logos and color schemes. Can't get over the oversized boxy Mondraker, Orange, and Mountain Cycle looks, while more modest Intense box shapes look pretty good. Niner's JET9 RDO looks too curvy to me, but I absolutely love the modest curves of the Yeti SB95c and love how the spar on the Santa Cruz SoloC swingarm is shaped into the pivot area. Despite how I like modest curves and shapes, I like the edgy new look of the top tube, seat tube, and shock mount area of the Spec Camber and Epic even more. Full 3k carbon weave looks cheap to me, though partial 12k or Textreme looks are growing on me. Was always drawn to the Cannondale Lefty design, but the needle bearing reset turned me away; now their new hybrid design greatly interests me. Not a fan of anodized lightweight CNC'd alloy parts made for racing, which I guess makes me not a fan of brands like Loaded.

These days, if it meets my demands and is competitively priced, I'll buy it, as long as the brand stands behind the product, such as with a reasonable warranty. Though, usually I demand a history of very few quality complaints for me to even consider a product. Sometimes seeing hate increases my pride in a product that has worked well, for my standards, such as seeing Avid hydraulic brakes hate.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Do you realize that this thread is about bike brands you hate?


Look out! Forum Police.

Bikes Direct, the only company I refuse to do business with.


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

floydlippencott said:


> Look out! Forum Police.
> 
> Bikes Direct, the only company I refuse to do business with.


Why is that?

And as much as people don't like CB, I love their pedals. Anything else ill pass on.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk


----------



## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

there are a lot of brands I dislike for valid, if petty reasons (Sram comes to mind.)

But then there are brands like Kona, Trek and Giant. Who make a good to really good bike, but they have just the ugliest paint/ stickers ever.

you gotta be careful with stickers, they can make or take away horsepower. I have a little purple diety sticker on my Surly, makes me supercore, and reinforces the frame for all the downhilling my straggler will see.

true story.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

pretty sure mantis doesn't like marin. does that not qualify?


----------



## mantispf2000 (Jun 29, 2004)

fishwrinkle said:


> pretty sure mantis doesn't like marin. does that not qualify?


to make it rather clear, and using that famous quote from the Grinch........

I LOATHE entirely Marin.

As for the ones I like, well, get over it. Yin and Yang, toe-may-toe/toe-mah-toe, etcetc. Why just hate when you can spread some good karma as well?????


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

FastBanana said:


> Why is that?


It doesn't matter why, only that I wont.


----------



## jeproxxx (Jul 7, 2013)

snowpunk said:


> That's actually one of the best reasons I've read in this whole thread





RacerScott said:


> I would never buy a Scott, because my name is Scott. Love my Specialized though...


Huh....My name's Scott Foil and I bought a Scott Foil and became a roadie just because they used my name on their bike.


----------



## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

Everyone has their preferences on bikes. I love Marin bikes while some hate them. For me, I would never buy a Specialized. Not because their bikes aren't good. I love the way they look and I respect the brand, but in this area, everyone and their mamas are on a Specialized. I goto my local trail and thats all I see.

Don't get me wrong, if someone offered me a Specialized Epic Comp for free, I would cruise it around like theres no tomorrow. But I wouldn't "buy" one.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Shakester said:


> Everyone has their preferences on bikes. I love Marin bikes while some hate them. For me, I would never buy a Specialized. Not because their bikes aren't good. I love the way they look and I respect the brand, but in this area, everyone and their mamas are on a Specialized. I goto my local trail and thats all I see.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, if someone offered me a Specialized Epic Comp for free, I would cruise it around like theres no tomorrow. But I wouldn't "buy" one.


If they offered an unpainted version of all their bikes so you could paint yourself...I bet that would be a good selller. Leave the Specialized logo off of it.


----------



## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

Eric.Bravery said:


> If they offered an unpainted version of all their bikes so you could paint yourself...I bet that would be a good selller. Leave the Specialized logo off of it.


Absolutely nothing wrong with their bikes. I just like to be a little different on the trails, so an unbranded Specialized wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. The only time I've ever come close to buying one was when I saw Pitch that someone stripped the paint down and clear coated the frame.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Shakester said:


> Absolutely nothing wrong with their bikes. I just like to be a little different on the trails, so an unbranded Specialized wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. The only time I've ever come close to buying one was when I saw Pitch that someone stripped the paint down and clear coated the frame.


 I may be getting a Specialized Crave as my next bike, but seriously thinking of having the frame painted the way I want. I like green, medium green and the Crave I want has no green. Wouldn't be that bad to do.... Take it apart to the bare frame, tape and seal all the machined surfaces, strip the paint and have a pro put back some color and ask them to make it chip resistant as much as possible. Will cost some pretty good cash, but hey...I'll have the only green Carve and leave the word Specialized off of it. Put on a custom graphic of your design. Green frame with black wheels....I love that combo/


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Eric.Bravery said:


> I may be getting a Specialized Crave as my next bike, but seriously thinking of having the frame painted the way I want. I like green, medium green and the Crave I want has no green. Wouldn't be that bad to do.... Take it apart to the bare frame, tape and seal all the machined surfaces, strip the paint and have a pro put back some color and ask them to make it chip resistant as much as possible. Will cost some pretty good cash, but hey...I'll have the only green Carve and leave the word Specialized off of it. Put on a custom graphic of your design. Green frame with black wheels....I love that combo/


Removing the original finish may void some manufacturers warranties.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

so you're going to buy a brand and have the name blasted off so you're not ashamed of it, then re-badge it with your uncanny wit? strip it yourself and buy better components w/ the $ you save. what's medium green anyhow? i say a large metal flake forest green is the ****. when you break that frame and void warranty i have a medium cobia frame sitting here for ya


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

fishwrinkle said:


> so you're going to buy a brand and have have the name blasted off so you're not ashamed of it, then re-badge it with your uncanny wit? strip it yourself and buy better components w/ the $ you save. what's medium green anyhow? i say a large metal flake forest green is the ****. when you break that frame and void warranty i have a medium cobia frame sitting here for ya


Ha,ha....
I know a guy who buys very high end bikes and as a joke re- badges them with Huffy logo's. I'm talking Turners and above.


----------



## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Ha,ha....
> I know a guy who buys very high end bikes and as a joke re- badges them with Huffy logo's. I'm talking Turners and above.



Thats actually a good idea if you live in a shitty hood lol


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

fishwrinkle said:


> so you're going to buy a brand and have have the name blasted off so you're not ashamed of it, then re-badge it with your uncanny wit? strip it yourself and buy better components w/ the $ you save. what's medium green anyhow? i say a large metal flake forest green is the ****. when you break that frame and void warranty i have a medium cobia frame sitting here for ya


I'm sorry(really not) but you're a Twit. I was saying there that custom painting the frame yourself and removing the Specialized name from the frame, will let you be "one off" or "different" A cheap fix if you ride with too many Specialized bikes on the trails.

Not ashamed of having a Specialized or any of what you tried to turn my words around with.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

fishwrinkle said:


> what's medium green anyhow?


Hmmmmm.... Light green, a darker green, and then really really dark green. It all is answered in the middle....figure it out......wow.


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Wow Eric, you've removed all doubts as to whether or not you really are a dick. Thanks for clearing that up.:thumbsup:


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

lol, a twit. that's all you have? how's it a one off if its still a production bike with a gay medium green color? still a crumby de-badged production bike, ya twit


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

whodaphuck said:


> Wow Eric, you've removed all doubts as to whether or not you really are a dick. Thanks for clearing that up.:thumbsup:


anyone to whom this is in question is VERY late to the party. :lol:


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

whodaphuck said:


> Wow Eric, you've removed all doubts as to whether or not you really are a dick. Thanks for clearing that up.:thumbsup:


Me the dick?! LOL... What about DirtJunkie in this poor sops, thread? http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/i-just-discovered-888062.html

What a dick!


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Me the dick?! LOL...


yep! and you make it more irrefutably clear with each and every post.



Eric.Bravery said:


> What about DirtJunkie in this poor sops, thread? http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/i-just-discovered-888062.html
> 
> What a dick!


what is clear in that thread is that you pretty much defecate in, troll, and derail ANY thread into which you post.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Me the dick?! LOL... What about DirtJunkie in this poor sops, thread? http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/i-just-discovered-888062.html
> 
> What a dick!


An attempt to divert attention away from the current subject?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Me the dick?! LOL... What about DirtJunkie in this poor sops, thread? http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/i-just-discovered-888062.html
> 
> What a dick!


Hey now! Eric Bravery certainly is brave calling out people he has never met in person. Why Eric did you drag me into your nightmare. If you want I can make it much worse just keep pushing me.

Your problem is becoming more and more clear to us with every post you submit.


----------



## Midwest_Medic (Sep 21, 2011)

Coming from the guy that list he has a TREK Bruiser


----------



## Rockjock634 (Nov 24, 2013)

GIANT!!! Have a GIANT, check your bike! I just bought a 27.5 Anthem SPECIFICALLY because the website AND the picture on the website said it came spec’d with all Shimano components. Imagine my surprise when the bike arrived with a SRAM X5 crank! Apparently, somewhere on the Giant website is a disclaimer that says Giant reserves the right to swap the components on your bike without giving, you, the purchaser, any notification whatsoever! That's not even the good part. When I mentioned that one of the reasons I purchased the bike was because I wanted those components, the Giant rep apparently told my LBS that I could have the crank it was supposed to come with as long as I was okay PAYING AN UPCHARGE!!! So basically, they'll give me what I paid for as long as I pay more for it! Un-freaking-believable! I'll post pictures of my bike soon, GIANT RIP OFF in red reflective tape! BTW, normally I'd have sent Giant an email about this but their customer service contact link must be in hiding along with that disclaimer! Gee, I wonder why?!

Interesting update! I finally found the statement on the website that reads…”All specifications and prices listed are subject to change without notice.” This brings up an interesting question, has anyone ever had their spec go UP, meaning better/lighter parts switched in without incurring a price increase? My guess is that Giant paid less for the SRAM parts but didn’t lower the price to the customer. If they didn’t send the Shimano crank due to, as they said, “supply problems” then why didn’t the bikes MSRP reflect the swap to the lower spec part? This sounds like a pretty simple case of a company advertising one thing and supplying something else with the intention of bolstering their profit margins at their customer’s expense.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Rockjock634 said:


> GIANT!!! Have a GIANT, check your bike! I just bought a 27.5 Anthem SPECIFICALLY because the website AND the picture on the website said it came spec'd with all Shimano components. Imagine my surprise when the bike arrived with a SRAM X5 crank! Apparently, somewhere on the Giant website is a disclaimer that says Giant reserves the right to swap the components on your bike without giving, you, the purchaser, any notification whatsoever! That's not even the good part. When I mentioned that one of the reasons I purchased the bike was because I wanted those components, the Giant rep apparently told my LBS that I could have the crank it was supposed to come with as long as I was okay PAYING AN UPCHARGE!!! So basically, they'll give me what I paid for as long as I pay more for it! Un-freaking-believable! I'll post pictures of my bike soon, GIANT RIP OFF in red reflective tape! BTW, normally I'd have sent Giant an email about this but their customer service contact link must be in hiding along with that disclaimer! Gee, I wonder why?!
> 
> Interesting update! I finally found the statement on the website that reads&#8230;"All specifications and prices listed are subject to change without notice." This brings up an interesting question, has anyone ever had their spec go UP, meaning better/lighter parts switched in without incurring a price increase? My guess is that Giant paid less for the SRAM parts but didn't lower the price to the customer. If they didn't send the Shimano crank due to, as they said, "supply problems" then why didn't the bikes MSRP reflect the swap to the lower spec part? This sounds like a pretty simple case of a company advertising one thing and supplying something else with the intention of bolstering their profit margins at their customer's expense.


Yes, I have had the good fortune of unexpected upgrades ((completely random event). As far as the specs, considering the time lapse between putting the web site specs together and the bike actually getting built a shipped it amazes me that changes in parts don't happen more frequently. Giant didn't change the spec of your bike to make a couple of dollars. As far as claims of false advertising, that's why they have a disclaimer. The LBS isn't going to eat the cost either, nor should they. You have a somewhat unrealistic view of how major manufacturing actually works and the thought that they are knowingly conspiring to rip you off leads me to believe that this sport probably isn't for you as most people that MTB have in my experience have been pretty laid back and more understanding of "simple stuff". Enjoy your bike.


----------



## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Me the dick?! LOL... What about DirtJunkie in this poor sops, thread? http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/i-just-discovered-888062.html
> 
> What a dick!


well yes since you send others to the slaughter rather then standing like a man.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Oh, you can contact Giant through any one of their dealers, they'll pass it along through the proper channels.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Rockjock634 said:


> Interesting update! I finally found the statement on the website that reads&#8230;"All specifications and prices listed are subject to change without notice."


Uh, thats not really that interesting. Pretty standard in the industry.........


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Me the dick?! LOL... What about DirtJunkie in this poor sops, thread? http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/i-just-discovered-888062.html
> 
> What a dick!


Don't listen to these guys, Eric.Bravery. They are a gang and are quite mean. I have been a subject of them for quite some time (mostly Dirty $anchez) and they love disturbing the newbies and their rep.
Not all are bad, but the main gang are the worst. I will give you some good rep for standing against them.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Rockjock634 said:


> GIANT!!! Have a GIANT, check your bike! I just bought a 27.5 Anthem SPECIFICALLY because the website AND the picture on the website said it came spec'd with all Shimano components. Imagine my surprise when the bike arrived with a SRAM X5 crank! Apparently, somewhere on the Giant website is a disclaimer that says Giant reserves the right to swap the components on your bike without giving, you, the purchaser, any notification whatsoever! That's not even the good part. When I mentioned that one of the reasons I purchased the bike was because I wanted those components, the Giant rep apparently told my LBS that I could have the crank it was supposed to come with as long as I was okay PAYING AN UPCHARGE!!! So basically, they'll give me what I paid for as long as I pay more for it! Un-freaking-believable! I'll post pictures of my bike soon, GIANT RIP OFF in red reflective tape! BTW, normally I'd have sent Giant an email about this but their customer service contact link must be in hiding along with that disclaimer! Gee, I wonder why?!
> 
> Interesting update! I finally found the statement on the website that reads&#8230;"All specifications and prices listed are subject to change without notice." This brings up an interesting question, has anyone ever had their spec go UP, meaning better/lighter parts switched in without incurring a price increase? My guess is that Giant paid less for the SRAM parts but didn't lower the price to the customer. If they didn't send the Shimano crank due to, as they said, "supply problems" then why didn't the bikes MSRP reflect the swap to the lower spec part? This sounds like a pretty simple case of a company advertising one thing and supplying something else with the intention of bolstering their profit margins at their customer's expense.


I have a 3700 Trek that was supposed to have a Shimano Crank and Acera rear derailleur that came with a Suntour crank and Altus rear derailleur.


----------



## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Ha,ha....
> I know a guy who buys very high end bikes and as a joke re- badges them with Huffy logo's. I'm talking Turners and above.


There is no such thing as above Turner!


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Don't listen to these guys, Eric.Bravery. They are a gang and are quite mean. I have been a subject of them for quite some time (mostly Dirty $anchez) and they love disturbing the newbies and their rep.
> Not all are bad, but the main gang are the worst. I will give you some good rep for standing against them.


for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

let that sink in for a minute...


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Don't listen to these guys, Eric.Bravery. They are a gang and are quite mean. I have been a subject of them for quite some time (mostly Dirty $anchez) and they love disturbing the newbies and their rep.
> Not all are bad, but the main gang are the worst. I will give you some good rep for standing against them.


'

Dude. After reading some of the drivel you post here I can see why someone would make a project out of you, and if more than one person is you should take that as a sign from Dog.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

OH! I almost forgot. Stop being so mean!!!


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

floydlippencott said:


> OH! I almost forgot. Stop being so mean!!!


What? Really you make no sense. 
Anyway I was primarily talking about a select few members who drive me absolutely mad because they give neg rep for no reason, but have massive amounts of good rep, also for no reason. That is why I call it a gang, because they all give each other good rep to make them look better than the other guys like Eric. Bravery and me.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> What? Really you make no sense.
> Anyway I was primarily talking about a select few members who drive me absolutely mad because they give neg rep for no reason, but have massive amounts of good rep, also for no reason. That is why I call it a gang, because they all give each other good rep to make them look better than the other guys like Eric. Bravery and I.


Yeah. With all the solid contributions that the two of you make it wont be long and you'll be on top. Seriously though, people are trying to clue you in on something but it appears that you're not hearing them. Less *****in, more listening. Anyway, I'm tryin to listen to Myles Kennedy and you're fuggin it all up.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

floydlippencott said:


> Yeah. With all the solid contributions that the two of you make it wont be long and you'll be on top. Seriously though, people are trying to clue you in on something but it appears that you're not hearing them. Less *****in, more listening. Anyway, I'm tryin to listen to Myles Kennedy and you're fuggin it all up.


So you are implying that us newbies should shut up and listen to you "all mighty gods" while you push us around and knock us down. 
Not this time. We will stand strong against your storm. If all you can do is call us names and give neg rep, we can weather it. We are strong and numerous, more numerous than your mob, and probably better, too.

Edit: Just because you have overpriced carbon fibre full suspension rigs doesn't mean you are better,:nono:


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

CannondaleF9 said:


> What? Really you make no sense.
> Anyway I was primarily talking about a select few members who drive me absolutely mad because they give neg rep for no reason, but have massive amounts of good rep, also for no reason. That is why I call it a gang, because they all give each other good rep to make them look better than the other guys like Eric. Bravery and me.


there are perfectly valid reasons why you and EB are neg-rep magnets, though neither of you seem to "get it". thus, neither of you will rectify them and resultant to this faux pas the circle of life will continue until you both have nice, bright, red squares below your name.

i'm all outta rep today, but tomorrow i'll help you along in your journey just as i have with your cohort. :thumbsup:


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

CannondaleF9 said:


> So you are implying that us newbies should shut up and listen to you "all mighty gods" while you push us around and knock us down.
> Not this time. We will stand strong against your storm. If all you can do is call us names and give neg rep, we can weather it. We are strong and numerous, more numerous than your mob, and probably better, too.
> 
> Edit: Just because you have overpriced carbon fibre full suspension rigs doesn't mean you are better,:nono:


Never mind it, man, ignore. See what they do is try and reverse and manipulate your post trying to make you feel that you are wrong, not getting it or being a troll lol. Eventually they try and make you blow and that is when YOU get banned and they go "HAHAHAHAHA"

Just ignore it.

I can't believe one of them confessed they are 52 lol....


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

monogod said:


> i'm all outta rep today, but tomorrow i'll help you along in your journey just as i have with your cohort. :thumbsup:


Well, you better not give neg rep, or you shall receive.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> So you are implying that us newbies should shut up and listen to you "all mighty gods" while you push us around and knock us down.
> Not this time. We will stand strong against your storm. If all you can do is call us names and give neg rep, we can weather it. We are strong and numerous, more numerous than your mob, and probably better, too.
> 
> Edit: Just because you have overpriced carbon fibre full suspension rigs doesn't mean you are better,:nono:


Young Padawan, I merely suggest that you are not hearing the message as it is delivered. Quit being so defensive and STFU long enough to get it through your skull. Have you ever reflected on why so many people give you neg rep? I mean really thought about rather than just reacting? Negs are given for good reason most of the time. I get a bunch of them and I'll tell you what, I earned every one of them. I ain't cryin about it, why are you? And an FYI, I don't own a Carpet Fiber bike and your pointed remark about them just shows how petty and jealous you really are. I know return you to your popularity contest.


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> What? Really you make no sense.
> Anyway I was primarily talking about a select few members who drive me absolutely mad because they give neg rep for no reason, but have massive amounts of good rep, also for no reason. That is why I call it a gang, because they all give each other good rep to make them look better than the other guys like Eric. Bravery and me.


You're about a year late to the "caring about rep" party.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

CannondaleF9 said:


> We are strong and numerous, more numerous than your mob, and probably better, too.


_"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." _~ George Carlin


----------



## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

Dudes. 
All of you. 
Stop acting like hormonal teen males for a minute. You're discussing a recreational activity on the internet.

That fact alone should turn the level of emotions being felt in this thread down from 11 to maybe 4.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Everyone, calm down. I can't get to all of you at once. Not all of you can sit on Santa's lap at one time. 
First of all, I am not jealous about carbon fibre bikes. People who ride them are stupid weight weenies. I want a steel bike.
Second of all, I am not whining about rep, I am clearly stating what your group does.
Thirdly, let us end this argument. I don't care to start an eternal war on the internet. 
But remember from LoTR, the hobbits rise up against the "big men" during the Scouring of the Shire.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

Eric.Bravery said:


> I can't believe one of them confessed they are 52 lol....


And you wonder why you get neg feedback. Dude, the more seasoned riders on this forum can and will ride you into the ground.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Never mind it, man, ignore. See what they do is try and reverse and manipulate your post trying to make you feel that you are wrong, not getting it or being a troll lol. Eventually they try and make you blow and that is when YOU get banned and they go "HAHAHAHAHA"
> 
> Just ignore it.
> 
> I can't believe one of them confessed they are 52 lol....


So this is your example of ignoring?

And whats wrong with being 52?


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Agwan said:


> Dudes.
> All of you.
> Stop acting like hormonal teen males for a minute. You're discussing a recreational activity on the internet.
> 
> That fact alone should turn the level of emotions being felt in this thread down from 11 to maybe 4.


You obviously don't know how to use the internet if you think everyone is supposed to be mature and level-headed.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

This thread is about bike brands that people don't want to buy, so let us get back ON TOPIC!


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Everyone, calm down. I can't get to all of you at once. Not all of you can sit on Santa's lap at one time.
> First of all, I am not jealous about carbon fibre bikes. People who ride them are stupid weight weenies. I want a steel bike.
> Second of all, I am not whining about rep, I am clearly stating what your group does.
> Thirdly, let us end this argument. I don't care to start an eternal war on the internet.
> But remember from LoTR, the hobbits rise up against the "big men" during the Scouring of the Shire.


(Raises hand) What the fuk is a "Hobbits'?


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

floydlippencott said:


> (Raises hand) What the fuk is a "Hobbits'?


HaHaHa


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

CannondaleF9 said:


> But remember from LoTR, the hobbits rise up against the "big men" during the Scouring of the Shire.


i bet you have some awesome posters on the walls of your mom's basement!


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Everyone, calm down. I can't get to all of you at once. Not all of you can sit on Santa's lap at one time.
> First of all, I am not jealous about carbon fibre bikes. People who ride them are stupid weight weenies. I want a steel bike.
> Second of all, I am not whining about rep, I am clearly stating what your group does.
> Thirdly, let us end this argument. I don't care to start an eternal war on the internet.
> But remember from LoTR, the hobbits rise up against the "big men" during the Scouring of the Shire.


So you are a hobbit?


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

monogod said:


> i bet you have some awesome posters on the walls of your mom's basement!


Actually, No, I don't have any posters.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

006_007 said:


> So you are a hobbit?


In every way apart from the fact that I am 5' 10", and most hobbits are between 3' and 4' high.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> In every way apart from the fact that I am 5' 10", and most hobbits are between 3' and 4' high.


Okay, I Googled Hobbits. Are you twelve years old? If so, does your mommy know you're playing with the adults on the internet?


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

floydlippencott said:


> Okay, I Googled Hobbits. Are you twelve years old? If so, does your mommy know you're playing with the adults on the internet?


I am not 12, but I was 12 not too long ago.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

floydlippencott said:


> Okay, I Googled Hobbits. Are you twelve years old? If so, does your mommy know you're playing with the adults on the internet?


Easy now - many of us mature adults quite enjoy Tolkiens books


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

floydlippencott said:


> '
> 
> Dude. After reading some of the drivel you post here I can see why someone would make a project out of you, and if more than one person is you should take that as a sign from Dog.





floydlippencott said:


> Yeah. With all the solid contributions that the two of you make it wont be long and you'll be on top. Seriously though, people are trying to clue you in on something but it appears that you're not hearing them. Less *****in, more listening. Anyway, I'm tryin to listen to Myles Kennedy and you're fuggin it all up.





monogod said:


> there are perfectly valid reasons why you and EB are neg-rep magnets, though neither of you seem to "get it". thus, neither of you will rectify them and resultant to this faux pas the circle of life will continue until you both have nice, bright, red squares below your name.
> 
> i'm all outta rep today, but tomorrow i'll help you along in your journey just as i have with your cohort. :thumbsup:





floydlippencott said:


> Young Padawan, I merely suggest that you are not hearing the message as it is delivered. Quit being so defensive and STFU long enough to get it through your skull. Have you ever reflected on why so many people give you neg rep? I mean really thought about rather than just reacting? Negs are given for good reason most of the time. I get a bunch of them and I'll tell you what, I earned every one of them. I ain't cryin about it, why are you? And an FYI, I don't own a Carpet Fiber bike and your pointed remark about them just shows how petty and jealous you really are. I know return you to your popularity contest.





Bro said:


> You're about a year late to the "caring about rep" party.





monogod said:


> _"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." _~ George Carlin





floydlippencott said:


> And you wonder why you get neg feedback. Dude, the more seasoned riders on this forum can and will ride you into the ground.





006_007 said:


> So this is your example of ignoring?
> 
> And whats wrong with being 52?





Bro said:


> You obviously don't know how to use the internet if you think everyone is supposed to be mature and level-headed.





floydlippencott said:


> (Raises hand) What the fuk is a "Hobbits'?





monogod said:


> i bet you have some awesome posters on the walls of your mom's basement!





006_007 said:


> So you are a hobbit?





floydlippencott said:


> Okay, I Googled Hobbits. Are you twelve years old? If so, does your mommy know you're playing with the adults on the internet?





006_007 said:


> Easy now - many of us mature adults quite enjoy Tolkiens books


(Golf Clap) Well done Gents.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

CannondaleF9 said:


> I am not 12, but I was 12 not too long ago.


Full disclosure, how old are you?


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Cannondale, do not answer...........


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Dirty $anchez said:


> (Golf Clap) Well done Gents.


Thank you kind sir - acknowledgement is all everyone is looking for.

And rep.

But mainly acknowledgement.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Full disclosure, how old are you?


Why do you want to know?


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Why do you want to know?


That info would be helpful in knowing how to respond to you in the future. Just like responding to people of varying ages differently, you respond to children and young adults with a bit more tolerance because they yet not know. So you can see it might be useful to know your true age, it would behoove you to get as much play here as possible.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

^^^^THIS!!! You are far less likely to get burned down if the members are aware that you may be of a tender age, just as I suspect you are.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

floydlippencott said:


> ^^^^THIS!!! You are far less likely to get burned down if the members are aware that you may be of a tender age, just as I suspect you are.


Okay fine, I am in my teens, just like some others who have more rep than I.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

Okay. What is ericbravery's excuse?


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Okay fine, I am in my teens, just like some others who have more rep than I.


Thank you.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

floydlippencott said:


> Okay. What is ericbravery's excuse?


I would assume preteen by his posts. And this my friends are how toddlers get their kicks.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I would assume preteen by his posts. And this my friends are how toddlers get their kicks.


Yup - happens every winter - gets cold outside, less riding, and the forum goes all weird.


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

CannondaleF9 said:


> First of all, I am not jealous about carbon fibre bikes. People who ride them are stupid weight weenies.


I just saved up and worked my arse off so I could buy a carbon frame and build it from the ground up. Anyone can have what they want if they put their mind to it and a bit of effort.

I'd say your comment regarding people are stupid weight weenies is remarkably ignorant. Yes I like the weight factor but I also like other pros regarding CF but I'm not about to waste energy on clogged up juvenile ears. And as for stupid, well the "cool poster" I have on my wall that says University of Oxford on it says otherwise.

I'm not trying to fuel a fire here but if there was ever a case of shut the **** up and think before you speak, this is the dictionary description of it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Bed time boy's, make sure to brush your teeth and kiss mommy and daddy goodnight. Your mommy will be up shortly to tuck you in.
Oh and be sure to put on your acne cream.


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Eric.Bravery said:


> ...
> I can't believe one of them confessed they are 52 lol....


What? This forum's full of old guys? I'm outta here!!!


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

I want to ride my bike across the deck of a great lakes freighter....that


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Wait... what did I miss?!?!? Obviously I am too old and slow, always late to the party... 

Still, it'll be 9.15 soon, that's when the fun really happens 

Oh, and I would never buy any bike that had skinny wheels, whatever the brand.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

noticed eric is down to one greenie from three a couple of days ago. at this rate he'll be in the red by humpday... :lol:


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

....


----------



## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

fishwrinkle said:


> lol, a twit. that's all you have? how's it a one off if its still a production bike with a gay medium green color? still a crumby de-badged production bike, ya twit


So what exactly is so gay about a medium green color?


----------



## Rockjock634 (Nov 24, 2013)

Actually, most "cyclist" order their components for a reason, just as they do their bikes. Hence, the thread. It is, however, refreshing to know that though you seemingly have no preference one way or another what components you ride you still felt strongly enough about GIANT and their unimpeachable business practices to attempt to minimalize my preferences. Curious. One might almost believe you to be a Giant employee. Thanks Sanchez but I'll consider the source and proceed accordingly. Maybe, the next time your God Complex allows you to pull yourself away from your keyboard you should go tell a roadie that you'll swap him a SRAM red crank for his brand new bike that came with full Di2... see how that plays out. Do it in person and bring someone along to videotape it.


----------



## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Everyone, calm down. I can't get to all of you at once. Not all of you can sit on Santa's lap at one time.
> First of all, I am not jealous about carbon fibre bikes. People who ride them are stupid weight weenies. I want a steel bike.
> Second of all, I am not whining about rep, I am clearly stating what your group does.
> Thirdly, let us end this argument. I don't care to start an eternal war on the internet.
> But remember from LoTR, the hobbits rise up against the "big men" during the Scouring of the Shire.


My 'Training Tool' is a Casati Laser (one of many versions) that's half carbon and half steel. What does that make me? A weight weenie retro-grouch?


----------



## BigRingGrinder (Jan 9, 2013)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Just because you have overpriced carbon fibre full suspension rigs doesn't mean you are better,:nono:


Dude, you posted 400 pics in passion of your "amazing season" this year..... of 210 miles. http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/end-season-best-2013-a-888560.html I was sure it was a typo and you missed a number, but no. The bikes people ride do not make them better, doing the miles it took you a full year to accumulate in under a month with out stopping to snap pictures every 200 feet does.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

Shakester said:


> So what exactly is so gay about a medium green color?


this


----------



## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

CannondaleF9 said:


> I am not jealous about carbon fibre bikes. People who ride them are stupid weight weenies.





Brockwan said:


> I just saved up and worked my arse off so I could buy a carbon frame


Stoopid weight weeny!


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

net wurker said:


> Stoopid weight weeny!


May I be condemned and judged with the tag of a teenager for all my days to come! Wait I should have argued as so..

I know I am but what are you?

Youth of today eh.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

do any of you people who hate big common brands own any Apple products? Iphone? ipad? 
Just wondering.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

To finally get on topic and answer the question and risk OMG! a neg rep, lmao, I am not brand loyal. If the thing has all I want, then that is what I'll get. Happens I like Specialized and I like the looks of them. Unless Specialized had slaves or something working in a sweat shop build them, or supported dog fighting and such or anything like that....they have my money, but I am not loyal to them just so far they have the bikes I am looking for plus it's all that seems to be sold around here.

I'm one of those guys who doesn't care what anyone rides.....DiamondBack, Huffy, Specialized, Giant, or a friggin Italian special, Titanium rocket ship. All I care about is getting on the trail and havin good times.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

NicoleB said:


> do any of you people who hate big common brands own any Apple products? Iphone? ipad?
> Just wondering.


I don't hate big brands, but Apple stuff is to much money for my budget. I want a Mac-Book though, cause I'm tired of the constant updates PC's do and Windows.


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

NicoleB said:


> do any of you people who hate big common brands own any Apple products? Iphone? ipad?
> Just wondering.


Ha ha... awesome. Or maybe a laptop, or a phone? Something you could access the internet with?

Or did you go with a local, custom, artisinal computer builder who just used _parts_ from huge companies to make your computer?


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

i'll never understand elitists. if a company had some serious bad practices, and there were major moral problems (lets say, trek eats puppies), then perhaps that would sway me. Otherwise, its enough work finding a bike in your budget that feels nice and has good fit. If i had to worry about my bike image too, well.....aint nobody got time for that!


----------



## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

NicoleB said:


> do any of you people who hate big common brands own any Apple products? Iphone? ipad?
> Just wondering.


When it comes to electronics and technology, I think its a bit different. For me, I really don't have a choice. Having a Mac is a standard in my line of work. I did have an Iphone for a long time (3G, 3GS, 4S) but when it came to getting a new one, I decided to go with a Samsung Galaxy S3.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

People like to feel special, unique, and stylish. We all drive Fords and Toyotas because being special and unique in the car department is too expensive for most people. 
And there aren't really custom options for cell phones and computers that are going to appeal to many people (minus the geeks with home made machines running Linux etc..)

Lots of people have Specialized, Giant, and Trek bikes. There's nothing wrong with that. But if they are too run-of-the-mill for you, there are lots of ways to customize a bike. Strip it down to bare aluminum, get a custom paint job, remove stickers, add your own stickers, add your name to it, get some dorky alt bars with bar ends, put playing cards in the spokes etc. Make it your own.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Also if you get annoyed that everyone is riding a Specialized and perhaps the same cookie-cutter paint scheme on your trail and town, then why not(as I said before) custom paint it yourself and then it would be one-of. 

As far as I am concerned, companies like Specialized, Giant and Trek put wicked effort into making the best bicycles man can imagine and possible. Also they try and make it affordable for everyone, because not everyone can get a 5,000 dollar bike. They have to cut things here and there to make it happen, but the outcome is your getting a bike at the best price and design possible no matter if you payed 600 for a base Crosstrail or 5,000 for a StumpJumper Carbon.

If I end up NEEDING to import an Italian, Super ship of a bike, then somehow I think MT biking would be less fun. To each their own though....if you want it, you have the cash and it makes you feel whole....then do it, get the bike no one else has.


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Eric.Bravery said:


> I don't hate big brands, but Apple stuff is to much money for my budget. I want a Mac-Book though, cause I'm tired of the constant updates PC's do and Windows.


Why don't you turn off the updates and run them manually once every say two months.

I have a MacBook Pro and I do like it but trust me, macs do crash and they can get viruses amongst other geek hacker programs.

For 2/3 the price of a Mac you can get one hell of a stellar PC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

Brockwan said:


> Why don't you turn off the updates and run them manually once every say two months.
> 
> I have a MacBook Pro and I do like it but trust me, macs do crash and they can get viruses amongst other geek hacker programs.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Or for about half the price of a mac you can build an absolutely crazy PC. Desktop of course.


----------



## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

Mongoose, even an expensive one. Btw, this is a kick-ass thread; I'm drunk with laughter.

Sent from my mountain bike while crashing


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Brockwan said:


> Why don't you turn off the updates and run them manually once every say two months.
> 
> I have a MacBook Pro and I do like it but trust me, macs do crash and they can get viruses amongst other geek hacker programs.
> 
> ...


I have problems and my computer guy set me up with a computer and settings to make it easier for me....I don't like to touch settings anymore, but perhaps I can get him to set it up like that.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

N. M. B. B.

This thread's getting to be.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

congrats eric, you're two days ahead of schedule getting into the red! :lol:


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Shakester said:


> So what exactly is so gay about a medium green color?


Well the word 'gay' does stand for being colorful. Well back in the day it did.

I find a Medium Green bike very gay...I love this combo!


----------



## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Shakester said:


> When it comes to electronics and technology, I think its a bit different. For me, I really don't have a choice. Having a Mac is a standard in my line of work. I did have an Iphone for a long time (3G, 3GS, 4S) but when it came to getting a new one, I decided to go with a Samsung Galaxy S3.


In what line of work is having a Mac "standard"? Just Curious.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

scatterbrained said:


> In what line of work is having a Mac "standard"? Just Curious.


McDonalds....... heh....nevermind, lol.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

monogod said:


> congrats eric, you're two days ahead of schedule getting into the red! :lol:


Which should not be.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

monogod said:


> congrats eric, you're two days ahead of schedule getting into the red!
> 
> 
> CannondaleF9 said:
> ...


an eric fan, eh? way to really think that one through. ut:

btw, i see you're heading that way yourself. started with three this morning, now down to two....


----------



## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

scatterbrained said:


> In what line of work is having a Mac "standard"? Just Curious.


I'm a graphic designer and print production tech.


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Also music production and Dj software^^^

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Shakester said:


> I'm a graphic designer and print production tech.


Ah, I figured it would be something along those lines. Although I wouldn't consider owning a mac as "standard" anymore in the industry, it's still the dominant platform for sure. Granted I prefer to just build my own PC.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

monogod said:


> an eric fan, eh? way to really think that one through. ut:
> 
> btw, i see you're heading that way yourself. started with three this morning, now down to two....


I have many more things to worry about than rep points on an internet forum. neg all you want, it doesn't matter to me....really...it doesn't.

How old are you anyway? I'm 39...just turned 39 a few days ago.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

monogod said:


> an eric fan, eh? way to really think that one through. ut:
> 
> btw, i see you're heading that way yourself. started with three this morning, now down to two....


And I was enjoying the extra green, but rep does not define me, whereas the extra green makes you look like a jerk.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Brockwan said:


> Also music production and Dj software^^^
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey watch how you throw my name around haphazardly 
DJ


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

i just repped Eric. before you yell at me, i just wanted to see how much E-power i carry. i was curious. Two green ballz? woah! ok, do what you will with him from now own.... 
test over.


----------



## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

Shakester said:


> When it comes to electronics and technology, I think its a bit different. For me, I really don't have a choice. Having a Mac is a standard in my line of work. I did have an Iphone for a long time (3G, 3GS, 4S) but when it came to getting a new one, I decided to go with a Samsung Galaxy S3.


So what you are saying is, you can justify not buying certain products on ethical standards and bullying tactics unless you use that products to make a living for yourself. In that case it's OK to use a product created by a corporation that has low ethical standards and bullies smaller companies on a daily basis?

ut:

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds...


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

NicoleB said:


> i just repped Eric. before you yell at me, i just wanted to see how much E-power i carry. i was curious. Two green ballz? woah! ok, do what you will with him from now own....
> test over.


You gave him two green ballZ, damn Nicole you do have power.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

NicoleB said:


> i just repped Eric. before you yell at me, i just wanted to see how much E-power i carry. i was curious. Two green ballz? woah! ok, do what you will with him from now own....
> test over.


LOL I'm now a test bed for people with egos so high they need to keep checking it in order to make sure they aren't losing their "power on the forum"

Personally rep systems are dumb on a forum and they create posters such as we see here in quote, rather than everyone being on the level and not below a certain "super pos rep, posters"


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

you're taking this too seriously brah, rep is a joke....and i'm going with the joke. Enjoy your green balls. you should be happy.

sorry it wasnt good for you....but it was damn good for me. i always enjoy dropping a huge load after it's been so long. And i seriously dropped a biggie on you. I go sleep now.


(queen of mtbr)


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

NicoleB said:


> Enjoy your green balls. you should be happy.


I was never UNhappy when I had red balls.


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

red balls equal inflammation. not good.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

NicoleB said:


> red balls equal inflammation. not good.


Well keep negging....I wanna see if I can get black balls.


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

if David Copperfield (king of neg rep, i think) hasnt reached black ball status, i dont think anyone can.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Now if I get brown balls....then possibly I'd get a little mad.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

NicoleB said:


> i just repped Eric. before you yell at me, i just wanted to see how much E-power i carry. i was curious. Two green ballz? woah! ok, do what you will with him from now own....
> test over.


Never underestimate the power of a woman. "Two green ballZ"


----------



## onlyoyster99 (Jul 14, 2011)

Wow. What we have witnessed here is a fantastic example of thread derailment. A pat on the back for everyone involved. 

Anyways I always told myself I would never buy a specialized. Still wont, well a new one that is. I just dont like their business practices. Also wont buy trek. Something about buying smaller brands and dismantling them (Klein, Gary Fisher) just rubs me the wrong way.

Despite this, the bike I ride now is a Specialized I bought used. It was a good deal, and I cant afford a new bike anyways. Beggars cant be choosers.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Where are all these balls of which you speak?!? Did I miss something? Nic has balls, but not many others here...

Oh, Eric, or should I call you 'test-bed', don't you be dissin' our Queen!


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

rockerc said:


> Where are all these balls of which you speak?!? Did I miss something? Nic has balls, but not many others here...
> 
> Oh, Eric, or should I call you 'test-bed', don't you be dissin' our Queen!


RC it all started with Nic's comment of the power she has over dudes. 


NicoleB said:


> i just repped Eric. before you yell at me, i just wanted to see how much E-power i carry. i was curious. Two green ballz? woah! ok, do what you will with him from now own....
> test over.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

rockerc said:


> Where are all these balls of which you speak?!? Did I miss something? Nic has balls, but not many others here...
> 
> Oh, Eric, or should I call you 'test-bed', don't you be dissin' our Queen!


 I can see you're 'P' whipped, lol.. I can also see that this woman must be hot, because if she were ugly or fat, none would give a crap what she said.


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

i had to call myself queen because the more pretentious the better!

hot is a bit much. howabout, passable after a few drinks? cuz these guys drink!

who needs suspension when i have so much already built in?


----------



## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Eric.Bravery said:


> I can see you're 'P' whipped, lol.. I can also see that this woman must be hot, because if she were ugly or fat, none would give a crap what she said.


Just consider yourself fortunate that she gave you two green balls, and not two blue ones. . . . . . because she could if she wanted to ya know.


----------



## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

NicoleB said:


> i had to call myself queen because the more pretentious the better!
> 
> hot is a bit much. howabout, passable after a few drinks? cuz these guys drink!
> 
> ...


:eekster::yikes::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

NicoleB said:


> i had to call myself queen because the more pretentious the better!
> 
> hot is a bit much. howabout, passable after a few drinks? cuz these guys drink!


Nah I'm thinking you're cute to even more, cause guys usually melt, get noodle legs and tend to kiss the ass of cute girls when they are in their presence. They put on the "protect our sister mentality" and it shows here. If you are a dog....they could give a **** what you negged or said...


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

onlyoyster99 said:


> Wow. What we have witnessed here is a fantastic example of thread derailment.


I know it....

Who wants to talk about the Titanic? I have this bad obsession about the Titanic lately. Strange everyone is so facinated about the Titanic, cause it wasn't the worst ship disaster of a liner....try the wilhelm gustloff disater....many many many more died in that incident.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

So back on topic....heh...

Everyone please neg rep me as much as possible...I wanna see if there really is a color beyond red.


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

i wouldnt ride anything that has SWAG. Goes for bikes too.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Eric.Bravery said:


> So back on topic....heh...
> 
> Everyone please neg rep me as much as possible...I wanna see if there really is a color beyond red.


Too much is never a good thing.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

LOL one baller now! 

Keep it coming!


----------



## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Eric.Bravery said:


> LOL one baller now!
> 
> ....


This isn't you is it?


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Eric, until you've chased the chub you ain't lived!


----------



## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

_____


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Nic, I've always loved that pic of you.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Eric it's time you faced reality.


----------



## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

NicoleB said:


> i just repped Eric. before you yell at me, i just wanted to see how much E-power i carry. i was curious. Two green ballz? woah! ok, do what you will with him from now own....
> test over.


Dang it you just gave him back the two that I took from him yesterday.



Eric.Bravery said:


> LOL I'm now a test bed for people with egos so high they need to keep checking it in order to make sure they aren't losing their "power on the forum"
> 
> Personally rep systems are dumb on a forum and they create posters such as we see here in quote, rather than everyone being on the level and not below a certain "super pos rep, posters"


Keep it up, it's comment like this that people are thinking you are a well a d~ck. If you have something useful to post do it otherwise quite putting or miss qouting others who just made a little joke.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Two balls again!


----------



## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Two balls again!


Make that 3!


----------



## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

He's back down to two.


----------



## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

he's a dang yo-yo


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

What is with people wanting red? I would prefer to have three green again.


----------



## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

mbco1975 said:


> So what you are saying is, you can justify not buying certain products on ethical standards and bullying tactics unless you use that products to make a living for yourself. In that case it's OK to use a product created by a corporation that has low ethical standards and bullies smaller companies on a daily basis?
> 
> ut:
> 
> Your hypocrisy knows no bounds...


I'm not sure where you got that, but since when is a preference an ethical standard or considered bullying tactics? We all make decisions everyday based on preference. If you don't like a certain flavor of ice cream, you get one that you prefer. It doesn't get any simpler than that and it has nothing to do with ethics. If your M.O. is to come to these forums to judge people to make yourself feel better about yourself, then all means, do that. Either way, I don't give a **** about what you think of me. But whatever rocks your boat.


----------



## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

CannondaleF9 said:


> What is with people wanting red? *I would prefer to have three green again*.


It could happen The power is in your hands. _You_ can make it happen.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

CannondaleF9 said:


> What is with people wanting red? I would prefer to have three green again.


To be different, unique, not cookie cutter like all the greenies who also ride Specialized....I am one that needs to be the odd man..... so....I want red, preferably black, but not brown, balls.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Eric.Bravery said:


> To be different, unique, not cookie cutter like all the greenies who also ride Specialized....I am one that needs to be the odd man..... so....I want red, preferably black, but not brown, balls.


I think that double red is as negative as it gets.


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

i dont ride a Spesh......i would never be so cookie cutter.
Instead, i ride a Giant, as an ode to my lengthy E-peen


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

I wonder if my bike shorts would take a good soaking. They feel like a diaper on, so .... I may give it a try.....when it is raining out.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Eric.Bravery said:


> I wonder if my bike shorts would take a good soaking. They feel like a diaper on, so .... I may give it a try.....when it is raining out.


Ok....I admit....I tried that before in the rain.


----------



## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

Shakester said:


> I'm not sure where you got that, but since when is a preference an ethical standard or considered bullying tactics? We all make decisions everyday based on preference. If you don't like a certain flavor of ice cream, you get one that you prefer. It doesn't get any simpler than that and it has nothing to do with ethics. If your M.O. is to come to these forums to judge people to make yourself feel better about yourself, then all means, do that. Either way, I don't give a **** about what you think of me. But whatever rocks your boat.


Oops, my bad. Substitute "ethical standards and bulling tactics" for "hating big common brands".

Hating a bike brand due to < insert your reason >, but then saying using a technology brand with the same issue is OK.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

I wonder if woman see men in bike shorts the same way us men see woman in bike shorts?


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

This is for NicoleB....


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Whoever did that photoshop must have a disgusting mind.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Rockjock634 said:


> Do it in person and bring someone along to videotape it.


Are you going to hit me with your purse?


----------



## bokdoos (Mar 1, 2004)

Ryan The VW Tech said:


> Trek. My first nice bike was a carbon Superfly hardtail, between the Bontrager Race X Lite wheels being so unreliable and cracking the frame on 3 different occasions without crashing it (each time their warranty deemed it a "defective frame" and charged me $150 labor each time to warranty it) I can confidently say I will never buy a Trek bike again. The unfortunate part is that it's kinda scared me away from carbon mtb frames in general.


+1. Trek screwed me on a warranty on a carbon frame.


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Eric.Bravery said:


> This is for NicoleB....
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/of plum smugglers that's been posted countless times before...[/QUOTE]
> How appropriate, a dick pic coming from the dick that neg repped me for not staying on topic.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

whodaphuck said:


> How appropriate, a dick pic coming from the dick that neg repped me for not staying on topic.


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to whodaphuck again."

Cant rep you for not staying on topic about not staying on topic right now.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

whodaphuck said:


> How appropriate, a dick pic coming from the dick that neg repped me for not staying on topic.


Please stay on topic. Thank you for your co-operation.


----------



## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

whodaphuck said:


> How appropriate, a dick pic coming from the dick that neg repped me for not staying on topic.


You don't say..hmmmm...... You got a neg from Mr. Butthurt about rep? Would one call that "Irony"?


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

What the **** is "topic"?


----------



## StiHacka (Feb 2, 2012)

NicoleB said:


> i just repped Eric. before you yell at me, i just wanted to see how much E-power i carry.


No worries Nic, I cut him down to a single chicklet again. Wow this brings back some old memories!


----------



## MWillis (Jun 23, 2011)

JoePAz said:


> These days if I need a new bike I will look at any brand and make a decision based on the bike and price. I don't care if everyone rides that bike or nobody rides that bike.


This


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Two green balls again! 

COME ON!!


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Ding ding round.... wait what round is this?


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Brockwan said:


> Ding ding round.... wait what round is this?


I believe that it is the "Eating cold Pop-Tarts is just as good as eating warm pop-tarts" round.


----------



## norton55 (Oct 5, 2005)

The mod puppets are strong in this thread.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

norton55 said:


> The mod puppets are strong in this thread.


 Yah I suspected that much.


----------



## carverboy (Sep 5, 2009)

007 said:


> +1
> 
> I have serious issues with their business practices and I detest the idea of proprietary parts.


Yep, another+1
I hate the proprietary crap as well and yeah the big S can suck it.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

NicoleB said:


> i dont ride a Spesh......i would never be so cookie cutter.
> Instead, i ride a Giant, as an ode to my lengthy E-peen


A girl can't have lengthy E-peen, or even a small one.

Unless you are an e-tranny.

:lol:


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

smilinsteve said:


> A girl can't have lengthy E-peen, or even a small one.
> 
> Unless you are an e-tranny.
> 
> :lol:


On MTBR Nic can do pretty much anything she wants.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

NicoleB said:


> if David Copperfield (king of neg rep, i think) hasnt reached black ball status, i dont think anyone can.


i love DC, lol. i read this one yesterday http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/2...s-whereas-26er-ones-own-domestics-480099.html


----------



## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

Eric.Bravery said:


> Nah I'm thinking you're cute to even more, cause guys usually melt, get noodle legs and tend to kiss the ass of cute girls when they are in their presence. They put on the "protect our sister mentality" and it shows here. If you are a dog....they could give a **** what you negged or said...


Eric, referring to any girl as a dog is poor form, and many here look out for Nic because she is a top shelf chick, regardless of the fact that shes smokin and id tap her if i had the chance, (she knows that) thats not the point.
The fact is that all the guys look out for any girl on here regardless of how they look, spirit and soul is worth way more than looks..


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Tone's said:


> Eric, referring to any girl as a dog is poor form, and many here look out for Nic because she is a top shelf chick, regardless of the fact that shes smokin and id tap her if i had the chance, (she knows that) thats not the point.
> The fact is that all the guys look out for any girl on here regardless of how they look, spirit and soul is worth way more than looks..


Well I confess I had to look at her profile....as I suspected....pretty damn cute if that is her riding that bike.

Anyways... I'm the only one here at this Tim-Hortons with a big-assed, lap top PC....everyone else is on Iphones, galaxies and Ipad, BS.... I feel so........outdated.


----------



## Eric.Bravery (Oct 6, 2013)

Tone's said:


> Eric, referring to any girl as a dog is poor form.


 Well they certainly aren't kittehs.


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

E-Peens are gender-less.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

scatterbrained said:


> This isn't you is it?
> 
> View attachment 849814


I had to use Google's search by picture to figure out WTF is going on here. I wish I did not.

That cobblestone is hard granite. How in the name of holy f.ck do you nail your balls to it?


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Cut nails.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

Axe said:


> I had to use Google's search by picture to figure out WTF is going on here. I wish I did not.
> 
> That cobblestone is hard granite. How in the name of holy f.ck do you nail your balls to it?


i'd use a ramset with either a red or purple load. lol i said load, but don't ask how i color my load


----------



## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

Axe said:


> I had to use Google's search by picture to figure out WTF is going on here. I wish I did not.
> 
> That cobblestone is hard granite. How in the name of holy f.ck do you nail your balls to it?


in the sand in the joints between the stones:nonod:


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Varaxis said:


> Whoever did that photoshop must have a disgusting mind.


Photoshop??
Maybe they had a fluffer like Eric.


----------



## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Maybe they had a fluffer like Eric.


Wow. I suppose this is karma, but that's workin' below the belt. Literally.


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Are we all back on this thread now due to the closure of the gang thread?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Brockwan said:


> Are we all back on this thread now due to the closure of the gang thread?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well eric is banned now, so I don't expect C9 will be willing to troll by himself now. Seems he used to not mind going solo, but when eric joined they suddenly got all chummy and whatnot.


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Bro said:


> Well eric is banned now, so I don't expect C9 will be willing to troll by himself now. Seems he used to not mind going solo, but when eric joined they suddenly got all chummy and whatnot.


Have we got confirmation on the banning of Eric?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Maybe they are the same person? A sock of a sock?


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Brockwan said:


> Have we got confirmation on the banning of Eric?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, it was spectacular.


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

I do hope c9 retreats to conscript more reinforcements. To be honest my money was on c9 as the first to go.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Maybe they are the same person? A sock of a sock?


Durian Rider sock puppets.


----------



## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

Wow... I go to a dentist appointment and I miss all the fun.


----------



## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

ghettocop said:


> Specialized. With one hundred percent certainty.





007 said:


> +1
> 
> I have serious issues with their business practices and I detest the idea of proprietary parts.





Fat Bob said:


> Yup the big "S" can lick my ball





carverboy said:


> Yep, another+1
> I hate the proprietary crap as well and yeah the big S can suck it.





VTSession said:


> Yeah I would never under any circumstances buy a Specialized. I see them as the big evil corporation in the bike biz. More specifically Specialized has essentially taken over where I ride. Almost every bike I see on trail is a Specialized and almost every bike shop around here is filled with their product. That's part of the reason I buy my bikes and gear online; if I went into a shop around here to buy a bike almost all of the selection would be Specialized.
> 
> I have several riding buddies with Specialized and the use of OEM parts is absurd. You can't even swap out many parts on the bike because of the OEM brand. The prices of their bikes are also verging on insane. Why on Earth would I buy an $8-9k Specialized when I can build a better bike for less money with parts that actually fit. It truly baffles me why that company is still in business.
> 
> Specialized is up there with Walmart and Bank of America as brands I will never support.


^ Another one goes to Specilaized


----------



## Surestick Malone (Jan 24, 2004)

Trek for dumping Lemond because they were making more money off of Pharmstrong. 

I understand the move from a business perspective but morally it was the wrong move and I don't want to add to the profits of the morally bankrupt.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Popcorn in hand and just getting into it and now it's done. Well at least I saved some popcorn for later.


----------



## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Popcorn in hand and just getting into it and now it's done. Well at least I saved some popcorn for later.


I had no idea you had such nice bewbs DJ.


----------



## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Everyone, calm down. I can't get to all of you at once. Not all of you can sit on Santa's lap at one time.
> First of all, I am not jealous about carbon fibre bikes. People who ride them are stupid weight weenies. I want a steel bike.
> Second of all, I am not whining about rep, I am clearly stating what your group does.
> Thirdly, let us end this argument. I don't care to start an eternal war on the internet.
> But remember from LoTR, the hobbits rise up against the "big men" during the Scouring of the Shire.


I probably like The Lord of the Rings as much as anybody. I've read it twenty times and it just keeps getting better. But, and this is crucial, if there are two things that will keep girls away from you being a mountain biker is one and quoting The Lord of the Rings is the other.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Ailuropoda said:


> I probably like The Lord of the Rings as much as anybody. I've read it twenty times and it just keeps getting better. But, and this is crucial, if there are two things that will keep girls away from you being a mountain biker is one and quoting The Lord of the Rings is the other.


I actually know girls who like me for my "nerdiness" and obsession with LoTR.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Yeah, I bet LOTR really pulls in the tail, a real magnet.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Dirty $anchez said:


> Yeah, I bet LOTR really pulls in the tail, a real magnet.


Some women do look for easy targets.


----------



## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Popcorn in hand and just getting into it and now it's done. Well at least I saved some popcorn for later.


DJ you better hope tones doesn't see that pic of you. He might come after you in his van


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

CannondaleF9 said:


> I actually know girls who like me for my "nerdiness" and obsession with LoTR.


As you are a young gun let me drop some knowledge on you. The fact they are being nice to you means you are already in what's known as the "friend zone". If you had one, your chance has already gone mate.

It could also be down to you giving them free movies or getting some sort of benefit out of your nerdiness. Trust me if chicks "like" your nerdiness they are after something. That won't change through most of your life. Even the ones that say they are not like that are lying, it's in the female DNA. Tread carefully young skywalker. Don't even f**king think about calling me yoda or making another Star Wars reference. Wait, you do know what star wars is right?

Don't answer that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Camaleon said:


> ^ Another one goes to Specilaized


I have an S works Epic and a Camber expert for off road and a Dura Ace Roubaix for pavement. All are awesome bikes. Never had any problem with the bikes or the dealer.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

zrm said:


> I have an S works Epic and a Camber expert for off road and a Dura Ace Roubaix for pavement. All are awesome bikes. Never had any problem with the bikes or the dealer.


Bikes are OK. But the company sucks. Both online shoppers and fans of good, independent LBS have ample reasons not to give them any of their business. If you are into that sort of statements that is.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Brockwan said:


> Have we got confirmation on the banning of Eric?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I missed what Eric did to get the ban-hammer. I honestly figured C9 woulda been gone from what I had seen.

back OT - anything from bikes duh rect.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

006_007 said:


> I missed what Eric did to get the ban-hammer.


He asked CHUM for it.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

006_007 said:


> I missed what Eric did to get the ban-hammer.


whaaa??? have you not been paying attention to ANY of the threads he's been involved in lately?


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

monogod said:


> whaaa??? have you not been paying attention to ANY of the threads he's been involved in lately?


All the juicy stuff is there from page 5/6 through to the end.

http://forums.mtbr.com/off-camber-off-topic/new-group-mtbr-888779-6.html

Matey boy literally asked for it.


----------



## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Axe said:


> Bikes are OK. But the company sucks. Both online shoppers and fans of good, independent LBS have ample reasons not to give them any of their business. If you are into that sort of statements that is.


Bought the Camber and Roubaix from the LBS. Bought the Epic as a slightly used frameset and built it the rest of the way myself. The LBS does well with Specialized; the fact that they can't sell the brand online means people have to come into their store which is a good thing for them.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

monogod said:


> whaaa??? have you not been paying attention to ANY of the threads he's been involved in lately?


I only saw the first 100 items in the conv. Did not see how he went off the deep end in the next 50.


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

I couldn't even figure out what that thread was about. It's too early in the morning


----------



## Guest (Nov 28, 2013)

GT had it's day, Fisher had it's day, Bontrager had it's day. As the Super-Brands suck-up more and more of the indies we're all one step closer to riding the same thing. Could be good or bad depending on your perspective. Hard to argue that bikes are more durable and use better geometry now than the did 10-20 years ago. Also hard to fall in love with a Taiwanese robot built frame the same way you could fall in love with a hand brazed Colonago. I don't usually try to out think myself when I buy a bike. I either like it or not, don't care what someone else thinks because they're elsewhere (in life, weight, health, location, etc.) I think about buying a Ti framed 29er a lot, but at 51 and my 12-hour days in the saddle are behind me. Buying a bike that will last longer than I will seems like a false economy. Might pull the trigger anyway, I'll no doubt ride more in retirement than I did when I was working, it's 22 miles of gravel and trail to my favorite coffee shop and if I'm not in a hurry, why not bike it.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

zrm said:


> Bought the Camber and Roubaix from the LBS. Bought the Epic as a slightly used frameset and built it the rest of the way myself. The LBS does well with Specialized; the fact that they can't sell the brand online means people have to come into their store which is a good thing for them.


You missed the "independent" word. Specialized screwed up many shops who did not want exclusive agreements. Information is out there if you are willing to look for it.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

The Understater said:


> I had no idea you had such nice bewbs DJ.





deke505 said:


> DJ you better hope tones doesn't see that pic of you. He might come after you in his van


Unfortunately not my boobs otherwise I'd be even more into myself.


----------



## Rumblefish29er (Oct 6, 2012)

Any bike I buy going forward will:

Have a shop nearby
High enough manufacturing volume and reputation that they can work bugs out
Mainstream enough that standard shimano parts will suffice
Big enough that they have a good warranty and customer service group.

I love my one bike that is from a smaller cooler brand, but I gotta say I spend way more time working on it than my Trek.


----------



## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

*gotcha!*

:thumbsup:


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

time229er said:


> :thumbsup:
> View attachment 850743
> View attachment 850746
> View attachment 850747


so you're saying you would never buy any of these???


----------



## Rockjock634 (Nov 24, 2013)

The thing with Giant is that I ordered the bike a good 1.5-2 months before it was due out so they had ample time to give the shop I bought it from a heads-up to changes that may effect the customer's willingness to buy. They did nothing. No equipment change notices of any kind. Then to tell me I could have the crank if I wanted to pay an upcharge just confirms that their initial assertion of the two parts being of equal value is bs.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

time229er said:


> :thumbsup:
> View attachment 850743
> View attachment 850746
> View attachment 850747


You would never buy: 
Shimano, Marin, and a RockShox Reba?
But I thought you said you loved your bike?


----------



## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Forster said:


> GT had it's day, Fisher had it's day, Bontrager had it's day. As the Super-Brands suck-up more and more of the indies we're all one step closer to riding the same thing. Could be good or bad depending on your perspective. Hard to argue that bikes are more durable and use better geometry now than the did 10-20 years ago. Also hard to fall in love with a Taiwanese robot built frame the same way you could fall in love with a hand brazed Colonago.


The market is a LONG way from being homogenized. Just look at the number of manufacturer subforums on MTBR. I doubt there are any fewer frame providers than there were 10-20 years ago. And there are still plenty of hand-crafted frames out there, just as there were plenty of Taiwanese-built frames in the 80s and 90s. And actually, I do think that MTB geometry has come a long way in that time. More durable? Maybe not. My first frame was steel and heavy, and you could have kept cold-setting it for years. I don't miss riding it, though.

GT is still pretty relevant, BTW. The Athertons have really given GT's credibility a shot in the arm.


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

For me basically any big box brand. Nothing negative to say... I just like buying a frame, picking out every single part and putting it together myself.


----------



## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

monogod said:


> so you're saying you would never buy any of these???


whoa dude!...I own it!...sorry, I wasn't clear


----------



## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

DeeZee said:


> For me basically any big box brand. Nothing negative to say... I just like buying a frame, picking out every single part and putting it together myself.


Bingo my good man.
I've had three previous "serious bikes" that I just couldn't leave alone. I had to change an upgrade all sorts on them to A) make them better and B) personalize them.

I just got my first carbon frame and I'm gonna build it from there up with every part that I want and I can't wait for it to be finished. Guaranteed the day I tighten the last bolt will be a better than all the days I ever picked a new ride from a shop or other rider put together. Plus not a single person in this world will have the exact same bike. May be the bike geek in me but that's a pretty cool feeling.

I can check out the reviews and try out any parts before I buy and install them and therefore when finished I shouldn't be displeased with any particular part and can only blame myself. I don't think ill ever buy a ready made ride ever again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

DeeZee said:


> For me basically any big box brand. Nothing negative to say... I just like buying a frame, picking out every single part and putting it together myself.


can you define "big box brand..."? seems it could be a deal-breaker to me.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> For me basically any big box brand. Nothing negative to say... I just like buying a frame, picking out every single part and putting it together myself.


Pretty sure for the majority of the "big brands" you can do just that........


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

006_007 said:


> Pretty sure for the majority of the "big brands" you can do just that........


And what would be the point of buying those frames? Ain't cheaper nor better than something a bit more unique (and often better made).


----------



## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Intense bikes. I bought one many years ago & a month into ownership the frame almost broke in 1/2. Of course they blamed me, told me this is a one time warranty & I should buy a BMX bike. The shop I bought it from let me exchange the frame for another brand. 3 months later other people started cracking the frame in the exact same location. 

If only they would have apologized to me instead of telling me to buy a BMX bike (Marv part owner is the one that told me this). I might have been an Intense for life owner, but because of this bad experience, I will never own an Intense bike! & every chance I get I voice my opinion! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Axe said:


> And what would be the point of buying those frames? Ain't cheaper nor better than something a bit more unique (and often better made).


Never said there was a point to it - was just pointing out that you can pick out just a frame from <insert big brand here> and pick out your selection of parts.

No, it would not be cheaper (and nor is doing frame only from smaller suppliers) but you get exactly what you want.

And better made is a pretty bold statement - if you are referring to US made then I do not believe that is always the case.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

006_007 said:


> And better made is a pretty bold statement - if you are referring to US made then I do not believe that is always the case.


My Nicolai frame is pretty awesome, for not being US made. And you get to pick color, and many customizations etc.. Then you have Turner, Ventana, Intense... Not much as far as plastic, but even Taiwanese carbon from some of boutique firms is pretty well sorted out. My buddy rides US made carbon fatbike.. pretty fancy..

I am not claiming it rides appreciably better, or lasts longer. But it is not an 100% practical hobby..

With internet shopping buying decent kit - often come well under equivalent completes in a store... and you get to pick bits - I like it.


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

time229er said:


> can you define "big box brand..."? seems it could be a deal-breaker to me.


About any brand that sells fully assembled bikes....not counting the boutique brands that sell build kits. Basically if they sell road bikes and kids bikes it is a no-go 

When I was building my latest bike (carbon HT 29'er) there were many nice choices from Specialized, Giant, Trek.....and so on. Just couldn't do it. Shopped around got what I wanted and it was cheaper and lighter. Other experiences may vary.


----------



## Tavm (Nov 2, 2013)

Actually...all bikes come in boxes. That's how they are shipped. And the boxes are pretty big too. What bike brand ships bikes without boxes??!


----------



## clarkrw3 (Feb 21, 2011)

Probably a lot I wouldn't buy, but after working it shops when I was young and dealing with Trek I would never own one.


----------



## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Tavm said:


> Actually...all bikes come in boxes. That's how they are shipped. And the boxes are pretty big too. What bike brand ships bikes without boxes??!


I like my bikes shipped in baggies


----------



## Tavm (Nov 2, 2013)

Paper or plastic?


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Axe said:


> My Nicolai frame is pretty awesome, for not being US made. And you get to pick color, and many customizations etc.. Then you have Turner, Ventana, Intense... Not much as far as plastic, but even Taiwanese carbon from some of boutique firms is pretty well sorted out. My buddy rides US made carbon fatbike.. pretty fancy..
> 
> I am not claiming it rides appreciably better, or lasts longer. But it is not an 100% practical hobby..
> 
> With internet shopping buying decent kit - often come well under equivalent completes in a store... and you get to pick bits - I like it.


lol, for sure its not a 100% practical hobby. Thats why it is so damn fun right?


----------



## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

006_007 said:


> lol, for sure its not a 100% practical hobby. Thats why it is so damn fun right?


Yep. Building bikes = FUN


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

So does nobody else have a bike brand that they wouldn't buy from?


----------



## Bird (Mar 26, 2004)

Cannondale keeps me from considering anything else....it's not my fault.


----------



## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Check this out.

https://www.facebook.com/specialize...037568222579?comment_id=28769395&notif_t=like

Just in case you were still thinking about buying one of their shitty bikes or any other product with their brand name on it.
And they couldn't choose a better time right before Christmas

War vet forced to change bike shop's name after threat from Specialized | Calgary Herald


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

complete douche bags. man it makes my blood boil, Mike Sinyard needs both legs broke


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Thousands (tens of thousands?) apparently wont be buying Specialized. The big S is getting hammered on social media, the calls for a boycott are getting louder.


----------



## Raven7 (Oct 3, 2012)

Specialized


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Raven7 said:


> Specialized


Will Die


----------



## 50calray (Oct 25, 2010)

I wouldn't buy a Specialized…and will be selling my Hardrock soon.


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

They just lost in sales due to the social media outcry, when they had nothing to gain my bulling a shop in Cananda. 

I hope they go out of business.


----------



## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

50calray said:


> I wouldn't buy a Specialized&#8230;and will be selling my Hardrock soon.


Good for you!


----------



## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

FastBanana said:


> They just lost in sales due to the social media outcry, when they had nothing to gain my bulling a shop in Cananda.
> 
> I hope they go out of business.


Going out of business is a stretch, they're just too big for that, but I hope that this outcry makes them think a little bit about how much they need to defend some of their ridiculous Trademarks (i.e. Roubaix, for instance). There are bikes out their with the same name but they aren't attacking them. What I'm curious about is whether they would have gone have him if he were a Spez. dealer or if it matters. To me they make the best shoes and helmets in the industry but I think I'm going to be looking elsewhere in the future as this is kind of the 'straw that broke the camels back' for me.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I've avoided speaking badly about Specialized but I admit that story is pathetic. 

But I think the sadder story is with the legal system. The courts are supposed to be the defenders of justice, but so many times people don't have the money to seek justice. I've been in a similar situation where I was completely ****ed by the state of Colorado because I did not have the money to defend myself in a tax matter. It's easier to bend over and take your ****ing. 

The other problem with the law is how a corporation can claim any rights at all on the name of a city that is hundreds of years old.


----------



## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

smilinsteve said:


> The other problem with the law is how a corporation can claim any rights at all on the name of a city that is hundreds of years old.


This one baffles me as well... how you can Trademark the name of city.... and they're not even based in the same country? It's slightly different with the French and the name Champagne.. it's still dumb, but I kind of understand it. Maybe I should just start trademarking random city names around the world and then start suing people? Hmmm, now there's a money maker!


----------



## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I do now.


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

1 Speed said:


> Going out of business is a stretch, they're just too big for that, but I hope that this outcry makes them think a little bit about how much they need to defend some of their ridiculous Trademarks (i.e. Roubaix, for instance). There are bikes out their with the same name but they aren't attacking them. What I'm curious about is whether they would have gone have him if he were a Spez. dealer or if it matters. To me they make the best shoes and helmets in the industry but I think I'm going to be looking elsewhere in the future as this is kind of the 'straw that broke the camels back' for me.


To be fair, they do have to defend all their copyrights/trademarks, no matter how seemingly ridiculous. Had they let the shop slide, that could set precedent for other companies to purposely use names and ideas that Specialized has trademarked. It's an all-or-none approach, unfortunately.

This particular example is difficult because Roubaix is also the name of a town, so it isn't solely Specialized's property. But the same thing would apply if a shop came around and tried to name itself Cafe Rockhopper.

Just to make myself clear, I'm not defending Specialized or the bike shop or anything else. Just trying to shed some light on their likely reasoning for the lawsuit.


----------



## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Fuji had a Roubaix first (maybe still does) and Specialized wanted the name. Fuji wanted the Horst/FSR suspension design so they worked out a trade. This is why Specialized and Fuji don't fight over the name and why Fuji has a version of FSR.


----------



## RaceTripper (Oct 30, 2013)

While shopping for a new mtn bike in recent months, I visited the local Specialized dealer several times. They were the only bike shop in town that would not let me take a FS bike for a test ride, not even around the store's neighborhood. They said I had to pay them $50, and they would apply it to the purchase of my bike (and keep it if I didn't buy from them). No thanks, I walked out. The other dealers were different. The owner of a local Trek dealer even put me on his personal SuperFly 100 SL Pro to ride around while the shop prepped a couple bikes for me to test ride. Later, they spent an hour fitting me so I would know exact size to order.

I ended up buying two 2014 Superfly FS (a 9 for me and a 6 for my wife) from that shop, and may end up buying a Domane road bike from them in a few months.

Specialized: 0
Trek: 2 (and maybe 3)


----------



## mudpuppy (Feb 7, 2004)

This is not the first time Specialized has been to this rodeo.... For a reason, if you don't defend your trademarks you lose them. I just found this out and then wrote a post about it.
The Mountain Bike Life: What's in a name?


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I'd still like to hear a legal explanation of how a corporation can claim exclusive rights on a common name already in existence.

Can Specialized make the town of Roubaix change its name? 

Does the trademark only apply to bicycle related uses of that name?
If so, can Specialized force a name change of the Paris Roubaix bike race?

How can a court give ownership of a name to a corporation, when the court has no ownership of the name itself? It's not like they invented the name and are claiming a novel invention, they seem to be stealing something that should be in the public domain.

I'd like to know more about the laws about this, but I would hope if there is any sanity left in the legal system, this shop should be able to keep its name. It's just a shame that a corporation can abuse a little guy without fear of repercussions just because of the costs involved in trying to fight them.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

The best legal system that money can buy.


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

smilinsteve said:


> I'd still like to hear a legal explanation of how a corporation can claim exclusive rights on a common name already in existence.
> 
> Can Specialized make the town of Roubaix change its name?
> 
> ...


In this case, Roubaix is a small town in France. So the US judicial system has no jurisdiction.


----------



## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Bro said:


> In this case, Roubaix is a small town in France. So the US judicial system has no jurisdiction.


Thing is Specialized has no trademark rights to Roubaix in USA - ASI (Fuji) does per other posts I've read on the interwebs.


----------



## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

GSJ1973 said:


> Thing is Specialized has no trademark rights to Roubaix in USA - ASI (Fuji) does per other posts I've read on the interwebs.


You are right it is the Canadian courts and in Canada you can't copy write city names. But in another article he did try and work with specialized and said he would take the name off the wheels.


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Ha! ...and I got neg. rep'd for mentioning the business practices of the Big S...


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I looked into Trademark law a little bit...

"A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination thereof, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others."

So the term Roubaix is trademarked by Specialized to identify Specialized products.

If you marketed pie crust and trademarked the name "Quick and Neat pie crust", it would not mean that no one could ever use the words quick and neat ever again, but it would mean that that term could not be used to market similar products. If someone came out with "Quick and Neat pancakes", that would probably be trademark infringement, because it would be considered similar, even though it isn't pie crusts.

So in court, Specialized would have to show that the Roubaix Cafe is marketing similar products using a Specialized trademark, and therefore confusing the consumer about is who is the source of the product.

Roubaix must be trademarked for certain specific Specialized products, but can't be trademarked for anything related to bikes, since the race is bike related and can't infringe on the Specialized trademark. I would guess you could have a Roubaix bike shop in the town of Roubaix without infringing, even if Specialized had the French Trademark. (The term Roubaix would be considered "generic" in the town of Roubaix, and probably in all of France, and so wouldn't be trademarkable, I think).

I would really like to see what a court would say about it.

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/BasicFacts.pdf


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

So I could start the "Roubaix club for people who hate companies who continually waste their customers money on legal harassment"?

IIRC, states and municipalities can trademark their city/county/state names, although I believe they can TM a logo. Seems kind of funny that S could trademark another countries city or 'territory' whatever that may be...


----------



## yukonfatbike (Nov 28, 2010)

Ethiopia had to take on Starbucks over three regional names. Ugly. 
He would probably win his case in a Canadian Court but appears he cannot finance the fight, nor does he appear to desire one given his condition. We could talk about well Vets aren't treated by the Canadian Gvoernment but that's another story...


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

smilinsteve said:


> I looked into Trademark law a little bit...
> 
> "A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination thereof, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others."
> 
> ...


A quick Googling shows that the shop's logo was also in red/black/white. That probably caused Specialized to see it as a bit more of a trademark infringement. I feel bad for the owner having to change his shop's name, but at the same time a bit of foresight/legal research on his part could have avoided this whole mess altogether.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Bro said:


> A quick Googling shows that the shop's logo was also in red/black/white. That probably caused Specialized to see it as a bit more of a trademark infringement. I feel bad for the owner having to change his shop's name, but at the same time a bit of foresight/legal research on his part could have avoided this whole mess altogether.


Let us not allow the facts get in the way of a good old fashioned burning at the stake.


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

Right. That's why I never use the color blue around bikes, I'm afraid Park will sue me.


----------



## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

That's why I don't have any colors on my bikes. In fact I don't have any bikes. I don't even ride. I'm here for the free beer 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

FastBanana said:


> That's why I don't have any colors on my bikes. In fact I don't have any bikes. I don't even ride. I'm here for the free beer
> 
> Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk


Wrong site!


----------



## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Wrong site!


right site wrong forum


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)




----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

deke505 said:


> right site wrong forum


Right site wrong forum and the beer's too full.


----------



## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't have a lot of experience with many bike brands other than two of the biggees; however, I won't buy I bike with avid juicy or elixer brakes again unless the deal includes a brake brand change!


----------



## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

GSJ1973 said:


> Thing is Specialized has no trademark rights to Roubaix in USA - ASI (Fuji) does per other posts I've read on the interwebs.


Turns out that's correct. And Specialized just got owned.

And ASI just got a whole heap of good karma and probably upcoming social media press.

ASI says Calgary bike shop can use Roubaix name | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News


----------



## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

skiahh said:


> And ASI just got a whole heap of good karma and probably upcoming social media press.


How is that, exactly? They haven't said, as the media portrays, that the bike shop can use the name -- they've said the bike shop can _license_ their totally bogus claim to a famous name they never shoulda been allowed to TM in the first place. I, for one, hope the negative karma bites them in the ass as hard as it did Specialized.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

bikefat said:


> How is that, exactly? They haven't said, as the media portrays, that the bike shop can use the name -- they've said the bike shop can _license_ their totally bogus claim to a famous name they never shoulda been allowed to TM in the first place. I, for one, hope the negative karma bites them in the ass as hard as it did Specialized.


License seems to mean a written agreement. Don't think they will extort him for money, or make change the shop name.

Just shows that whatever trademarks laws are, one can enforce their rights without being an ass.


----------



## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Axe said:


> License seems to mean a written agreement. Don't think they will extort him for money, or make change the shop name.


In my experience, license = fee. What claim does _anyone_ rightly have over the name "Roubaix"? Anyway, I'll withhold judgment until this shakes out.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

bikefat said:


> In my experience, license = fee.


GPL. Creative Commons. Or any other open source license is a license. No fee. Just an example. My guess is that they just want that shop to acknowledge its use - in case that shop wants to sell bicycles under the exact same name. Which I think all can agree is not a fair thing to do.



bikefat said:


> What claim does _anyone_ rightly have over the name "Roubaix"? Anyway, I'll withhold judgment until this shakes out.


There are plenty of common words used as trademarks in a particular context. Its a law. Like any law it can be abused. Or not.


----------



## bikefat (Nov 13, 2013)

Axe said:


> GPL. Creative Commons. Or any other open source license is a license. No fee. Just an example. My guess is that they just want that shop to acknowledge its use - in case that shop wants to sell bicycles under the exact same name. Which I think all can agree is not a fair thing to do.


Can't wait to see at least one example of a major brand in any market using copyleft. Just as I can't imagine any of this guy's customers mistaking him for Specialized, or Fuji, or whatevs.



Axe said:


> There are plenty of common words used as trademarks in a particular context. Its a law. Like any law it can be abused. Or not.


 Oh, don't I know! But the law's pretty explict about not trademarking well-known names, particularly place names. Imagine if one could TM "Gettysburgh" and then sue all the Civil War recreationists, game developers (Sid Meier), encyclopedias, textbooks, national monuments, everyone doing business in modern Gettysburgh right down to an ice-cream shop that dares not to be a 31-flavors franchise, and so on and so forth. IMO, we have a clear case of abuse, here -- or at least a clear dividing line for those who think TM'ing "Roubaix" is kosher, so to speak.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

bikefat said:


> Can't wait to see at least one example of a major brand in any market using copyleft.


Pretty much every major company in existence uses open source software in some form. And yes, they agree to a license when they do.

Whatever browser you use to post this - you most likely have agreed to a license to use it. Had you been charged a fee? No? PM me for an address to send your payment.



bikefat said:


> Oh, don't I know! But the law's pretty explict about not trademarking well-known names, particularly place names. Imagine if one could TM "Gettysburgh" and then sue all the Civil War recreationists


Law is pretty explicit about trademark being used in a particular context. For example as a name for a bicycle. You can not trademark a word by itself.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

bikefat said:


> But the law's pretty explict about not trademarking well-known names, particularly place names. Imagine if one could TM "Gettysburgh" and then sue all the Civil War recreationists, game developers (Sid Meier), encyclopedias, textbooks, national monuments, everyone doing business in modern Gettysburgh right down to an ice-cream shop that dares not to be a 31-flavors franchise, and so on and so forth.


Dude you just don't understand trademarking. 
Santa Cruz is a place.
"Santa Cruz Bicycles" is a trademarked name. It doesn't stop anyone from using "Santa Cruz" in a million different ways.


----------



## mtb_beginner (Jul 20, 2013)

smilinsteve said:


> Dude you just don't understand trademarking.
> Santa Cruz is a place.
> "Santa Cruz Bicycles" is a trademarked name. It doesn't stop anyone from using "Santa Cruz" in a million different ways.


According to the owner of Santa Cruz, he's been allowed to keep the name because his company predates the passing of that trademark law.


----------



## iWiLRiDe (Apr 17, 2006)

Specialized. I have owned 2 of them in my lifetime and they were good bikes, I just HATE the fact that they are so lawsuit crazy and they say they do this to protect their brand. Some of the lawsuits I've seen them take to court don't even make sense to me. It is for THIS reason that I do not support them anymore. Their bikes are good, they spend a lot of money doing RnD, and for the most part customer service is pretty good. I can't support them due to their business ethics. I also used to be a fan of Mongoose, Diamondback, and GT but I don't like their designs anymore, nor do I think they are made very well. The quality of bike just isn't there anymore.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

In the end, all this drama over a name wound up to be free publicity for Spec, the Cafe Roubaix guy, ASI/Raleigh, the sites reporting it, and all the gossiping types helped make that happen. That Cafe Roubaix guy probably will get so much more business due to this, even if he does change his name, as long as he's got a decent product.

I see Spec as something similar to a flashy hooker in this case. You might not want to deal with them for personal moral reasons, but it's hard to resist looking when they flash their boobs (analogous to press release of new bikes). If you like what you see, you might take another closer look and that's when they might hook ya, if they've got something you want for a reasonable price. You can avoid the places where they're found, but it doesn't stop people who've been hooked from sharing their experience with ya. Heck, some might see them as a necessary evil, as hookers can reduce violence against women (analogous to what Spec does for the industry).


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Varaxis said:


> Heck, some might see them as a necessary evil, as hookers can reduce violence against women (analogous to what Spec does for the industry).


I don't get the analogy.

Hookers can reduce violence against women,
and Specialized can reduce _______ against ____________??


----------



## RaceTripper (Oct 30, 2013)

Varaxis said:


> ...Heck, some might see them as a necessary evil, *as hookers can reduce violence against women* (analogous to what Spec does for the industry).


I can only guess that was meant to be a sick joke.


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

It's a Canadian shop so the US judicial system has no jurisdiction.............


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

I get the feeling what he's getting at is that companies like this keep the people who want flashy overhyped overpriced crap from ruining the good brands. How the hooker analogy is supposed to fit in with that concept, I could not tell you... I mean, I can conceive of pretty much any massive brand as a hooker--one that is not likely to have anything I am interested in... :yawn:


----------



## Whitewater (Nov 17, 2012)

DAMN, I just realized I own 2 Specialized bikes! Both Rockhoppers from the 90's but still! Maybe a new paint job to ditch the decals is in order...


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

*Bike Brand you Would Never Buy...*

Wow if you took every brand of bikes named in this thread, we'd be left with one choice to purchase.


----------



## RaceTripper (Oct 30, 2013)

Whitewater said:


> DAMN, I just realized I own 2 Specialized bikes! Both Rockhoppers from the 90's but still! Maybe a new paint job to ditch the decals is in order...


+1

I have a 92 Rockhopper that I rode until two months ago, and my wife had a 95 Rockhopper. They are still in the basement, and had some upgrades and refurbishments done in the last year. I'm not even sure what to do with them. I doubt they are worth much on the used market.

I will be parting out two sets of WTB Velociraptors I put on them for one ride before buying new bikes.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Can we get back to hookers?


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

*Sure.*

If you like hookers, and you like frankenstein, you'll LOVE this.


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

AZ said:


> Can we get back to hookers?


Specialized is just like strippers and mud wrestlers too.


----------



## RacerScott (Jul 7, 2013)

Wow mountain bikes getting wound up over a road bike name. Haha


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

smilinsteve said:


> I don't get the analogy.
> 
> Hookers can reduce violence against women,
> and Specialized can reduce _______ against ____________??


Provide an outlet for gossipers and those with long standing grudges to vent.

Those people would still need an outlet, and without Spec/hookers their venting would just be directed at some other target, perhaps a more "innocent" and undeserving target that is more sensitive to such treatment.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Will this work AZ?
Salma Hayek getting the blood flowing.


----------



## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

I want to suck her toes too.


----------



## Luis M. (Jun 9, 2013)

DAMN, she looks just as good as my specialized....jk ! I don't care about anything other than a well made bike with a decent $ tag. I don't want my pedal pusher to cost more than my motorcycle. It just doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Varaxis said:


> Provide an outlet for gossipers and those with long standing grudges to vent.
> 
> Those people would still need an outlet, and without Spec/hookers their venting would just be directed at some other target, perhaps a more "innocent" and undeserving target that is more sensitive to such treatment.


Nah, still doesn't work. Maybe you're trying too hard.


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Rev Bubba said:


> It's a Canadian shop so the US judicial system has no jurisdiction.............


US judicial system, no. US copyright laws, yes. Part of the NAFTA covers that.
It appears the the point is moot because Special Ed didn't have the right to the name anyway.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Interesting quote, to bad he forgot.


"The Japanese way starts with honor and integrity" -- Mike Sinyard


----------



## havanother (Sep 15, 2011)

Santa Cruz. 

Because I'm not in the US. 

Made the mistake of buying a carbon Blur last year, a year later the thing broke. No stock of spare parts (contrary to warranty statement), and they don't do things through the dealers. So I have to courier the broken frame to the US and pay to courier the new frame back - plus disassembly/assembly and various new parts to get the thing going again. With all the inconvenience and $$ I'm spending, I may as well buy a new bike. And Santa Cruz customer service is doing nothing to make the process any easier. Many years ago, I broke a 5 year old Jamis. Lugged it into the shop, rode away on a new one. It was all sorted through the dealer - and all they said was "we're real sorry it broke". THAT'S customer service.


----------



## poopoo (Apr 22, 2013)

unrooted said:


> I have a short list of bike brands I wouldn't consider buying, but I'll chime in later.
> 
> A big thing that turns me off:
> Unsubstantiated bragging from marketing
> ...


Trek


----------



## poopoo (Apr 22, 2013)

I've had 24 bicycles in my life and 5 of them where Santa Cruz, two of them my current bikes( stigmata and Bronson). I don't see myself buying anything else in the near future. Best bicycles I've used so far. I've never had to claim warranty but the Spanish distributors do a very good job (LTMRacing).
I had good luck with Giant too. Cannondale crap, Kona crap, custom ti frames crap, gt crap, trek worst crap ever, kinesis surprisingly good! Focus alright... I had a EDR (now Rotor) frame in the early 2000's and it was very well built, but the Turner suspension system wasn't very good...
For me there's only one material: carbon and only one commercial brand: Santa Cruz.
I've read Marin, DMB and Kona are back in business doing good things again but I don't know... after previous experiences I'm not keen to try again, to be honest...
Kona's new top of the range gravel frame looks awesome, though but no BSA BB, bummer...


----------



## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

well since this thread has be resurrected I'll chime in, trek, yeti, and specialized as I've had bad luck with them in the past or my son has.


----------



## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

This is very enlightening 
Mostly about the company who owns the trademark
And not about the actual quality of the product 

not what I would have expected as most posters here likely know how and where bicycles are produced
and know that a sheet of decal transfers is going for under $1 at OEM


----------



## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

AMjunky said:


> Any bike brands owned by Dorel/Pacific the huge corporate whale of the bike industry. Having said that Connondale is making sweet bikes of late and Peter Sagan kicks @$$! Used to have a GT, great bike but customer service was horrible.
> 
> Also no lemming bikes like Specialized and Trek. I wouldn't really lump Santa Cruz with those two. Then again I ride one. I am not too crazy about the fact that they make so many different products like skate boards surfing stuff. Same for Scott but I ride a Scott road bike and its pretty damn good.
> 
> ...


Life is much sweeter than you project. I support LBS that rock and many many do. Bike companies are like boat builders. Ownership changes and quality is a roller coaster.


----------



## Arm&Hammer (Dec 19, 2020)

Trek and Specialized for how they do business, scum of the bike world.

RIP - Bontrager, Lemond, Klein, Gary Fisher, Electra, all great products until Trek screwed them


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

Joules said:


> never is a strong word, but...
> Brands with a full-time legal department, i.e, the one that's constantly suing everyone and just had the patent expire that was the only thing making them unique (this is as close to "never buy" as I get right now; I can't stant the fact that they sued a 1-man working out of his garage operation.


i was going to say this, but i didn't want to start that discussion again. glad to see there's another soul that cares about ethics. MS is a POS


----------



## IndyFlick (Sep 1, 2020)

Arm&Hammer said:


> RIP - Bontrager, Lemond, Klein, Gary Fisher, Electra, all great products until Trek screwed them


I agree 100%. It's been tough watching Trek drive those brands into the ground. Those brands had value. Trek could have at least sold them off rather than destroying them.


----------



## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

In 2018 I had this self-righteous plan to black-list all the brands that were selling e-bikes.

So much for that.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

fishwrinkle said:


> i was going to say this, but i didn't want to start that discussion again. glad to see there's another soul that cares about ethics. MS is a POS


I have to wonder if this is really the issue. I'd bet that most companies, even the "bigger" ones, probably contract with a legal service, paying a monthly fee for representation. If so, the disconnect between the company representing and the company represented is probably more to blame than legal departments, in other words, if the legal department is actually part of the company, they are probably less knee-jerk and better in line with the company's ethics. Knolly recently hired a patent lawyer to go after Intense for building bikes with seat tubes in front of the BB (something that has been a common practice long before Knolly came along). I think if there was a competent lawyer working for these companies they'd probably advise them on what are bad ideas to try and pursue.


----------



## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

Jayem said:


> I have to wonder if this is really the issue. I'd bet that most companies, even the "bigger" ones, probably contract with a legal service, paying a monthly fee for representation. If so, the disconnect between the company representing and the company represented is probably more to blame than legal departments, in other words, if the legal department is actually part of the company, they are probably less knee-jerk and better in line with the company's ethics. Knolly recently hired a patent lawyer to go after Intense for building bikes with seat tubes in front of the BB (something that has been a common practice long before Knolly came along). I think if there was a competent lawyer working for these companies they'd probably advise them on what are bad ideas to try and pursue.


There is no way around it - excessive expenses are paid by the end user.
Excessive legal action, excessive travel, excessive offices, excessive staff, etc, etc
in the long run it's all paid by the cyclist that buys from a company that wastes money. And in the last 40 years the bicycle industry has gone wild with expenses; while at the same time sourcing has become standardized . 
So since we all use the same suppliers of frames, forks, tires, drive trains, brakes, etc - expenses spent along the way in the distribution channel are the major factor determining value that the buyer gets for their money.

there is no way around it, all expenses are paid by the consumer, including the excessive ones


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Easier for me to create a shortlist of bikes I WOULD currently consider buying. 

First Preference:
Evil
Yeti
Pivot
Ibis

Second Prefernce:
Spot
Trek
Specialized
Santa Cruz


----------



## looks easy from here (Apr 16, 2019)

Huffy
Schwinn
Magna
Next
...

Unless we're talking Bike companies, not "bike" companies, in which case any company that only makes carbon fiber bikes.


----------



## ghj018 (Aug 13, 2005)

As of today, I wouldn't buy specialized!








Mike's Bikes


Dear customer, For over 20 years, Mike's Bikes maintained a close partnership with Specialized Bicycles. We've built a strong business here in NorCal and beyond, as both of our companies have grown together. A few weeks ago, Mike's Bikes was acquired by an amazing family-owned company in...




www.mtbr.com


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

ghj018 said:


> As of today, I wouldn't buy specialized!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is one of the weaker reasons to not buy specialized - they stopped dealing with a shop that is owned by the same parent company of a competitor.

Some of their other shady dealings are way more if a good reason....


----------



## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

006_007 said:


> That is one of the weaker reasons to not buy specialized - they stopped dealing with a shop that is owned by the same parent company of a competitor.
> 
> Some of their other shady dealings are way more if a good reason....


They cancelled orders of hundreds of customers, some of whom have been waiting the better part of a year for bikes during a Covid supply shortage. Now those customers will have to get in the back of the line for another bike, hopefully one from a company that treats its customers with more respect.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> They cancelled orders of hundreds of customers, some of whom have been waiting the better part of a year for bikes during a Covid supply shortage. Now those customers will have to get in the back of the line for another bike, hopefully one from a company that treats its customers with more respect.


True, but they didn't keep the money.

Speaking of that , sick is a company I would never deal with also if they ever somehow came back again.


----------



## ghj018 (Aug 13, 2005)

006_007 said:


> True, but they didn't keep the money.
> 
> Speaking of that , sick is a company I would never deal with also if they ever somehow came back again.


If I were a waiting customer I would be PISSED! Getting my money back wouldn't be good enough after all that waiting. Not not mention all the hassle of reaching out to each customer to explain that their order cannot be filled and why.

Why not honor existing orders and only deny new orders? What harm could come of that approach? It was a petty move from a petty company that is likely to hurt Mikes bikes no matter how well they handle their end and that was probably the intention.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

ghj018 said:


> .
> 
> Why not honor existing orders and only deny new orders? What harm could come of that approach? It was a petty move from a petty company that is likely to hurt Mikes bikes no matter how well they handle their end and that was probably the intention.


But didn't they abandon ship because Mike's bikes was no longer Mike's bikes? They had a contract setup with Mike's bikes. It was now something else that did not meet their criteria.

And no, I am not a specialized fanboi - have not had a product of theirs since maybe 2001 (other than a few of their tires). But business is business. They have their principles that they strictly follow.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

007, I think this conversation has expired.


----------



## ghj018 (Aug 13, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> 007, I think this conversation has expired.


yeah, this thread was in "Recommended Reading" right after I read about Mike's bikes. So I am guilty of clicking and resurrecting...


----------



## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm over some bad experiences that mostly reflected marginal employees and companies, and don't want to say would never buy as much as express having fewer issues sticking with less exotic and more boring stuff.

If there's any rule about what I won't buy these days it's an item that could not be replaced or repaired with ease.


----------



## Oogie (Jun 9, 2021)

Yeti or Pivot because I have not yet hit the lotto.


----------



## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

Oogie said:


> Yeti or Pivot because I have not yet hit the lotto.


I have a Pivot. Looking to buy another one. Great bikes but probably overpriced.

I would not buy a Yeti because they have a reputation for frame breakage. Also Yeti caving in on the ridiculous charge that 'tribe' is offensive makes the brand very unattractive.


----------



## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Times change.

Back on post #40 I said I'd never by a Specialized. Look what the cat dragged in 2 weeks ago, lol.

To be fair I tried buying a Growler and a Niner before this bike but neither purchase worked out in the end...and availability became a key decision after months of gravel bike shopping. It's a great bike but I somehow feel dirty.


----------



## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> I have a Pivot. Looking to buy another one. Great bikes but probably overpriced.
> 
> I would not buy a Yeti because they have a reputation for frame breakage. Also Yeti caving in on the ridiculous charge that 'tribe' is offensive makes the brand very unattractive.


Yeti, who wants to experience their 'great customer service' because their frames break?

Also Trek or Specialized.


----------



## Oogie (Jun 9, 2021)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> I have a Pivot. Looking to buy another one. Great bikes but probably overpriced.
> 
> I would not buy a Yeti because they have a reputation for frame breakage. Also Yeti caving in on the ridiculous charge that 'tribe' is offensive makes the brand very unattractive.


429 would probably be my ideal bike, but the cost and superboost doesn't work for me. I just barely moved the fleet to boost from 142/135. If I ever hit the lotto, I am getting a NIcolai with a pinion box. Next real life frame is probably going to be a banshee.


----------



## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

Oogie said:


> 429 would probably be my ideal bike, but the cost and superboost doesn't work for me. I just barely moved the fleet to boost from 142/135. If I ever hit the lotto, I am getting a NIcolai with a pinion box.


You would not be disappointed with either.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I almost bought Pivot 429. Decided on an Intense Primer instead. There’s too many Yetis running my trails in Colorado. Pivot was just little more money than the Primer with a similar build. Plus I’ve been loyal to Intense for years. So many great choices out there it’s hard to choose.


----------



## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I almost bought Pivot 429. Decided on an Intense Primer instead. There's too many Yetis running my trails in Colorado. Pivot was just little more money than the Primer with a similar build. Plus I've been loyal to Intense for years. So many great choices out there it's hard to choose.


I always wanted an Intense and ended up buying a Recluse with DVO suspension, XT Di2. At the time it seemed like the right bike but it never felt quite right. Ended up swapping everything onto a Pivot 5.5 and it felt perfect from day 1. I've still got the Recluse, waiting to be rebuilt. I'm going to try a mullet set up.


----------



## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Unno... I'll never be able to afford one 

Sent from my Asus Rog 3


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

I am sure someone said it, but in case not: Ellsworth.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

crank1979 said:


> I always wanted an Intense and ended up buying a Recluse with DVO suspension, XT Di2. At the time it seemed like the right bike but it never felt quite right. Ended up swapping everything onto a Pivot 5.5 and it felt perfect from day 1. I've still got the Recluse, waiting to be rebuilt. I'm going to try a mullet set up.


When I bought my 2020 Intense Primer they offered a 29'er / 27.5" or a mullet in the Primer platform. Talk about a head spin. I opted for the 29'er and am very satisfied. They offered those three versions only in that year. Not prior or since. The Primer took over other models in their lineup. They focused more on a do it all bike and narrowed down the field of models.


----------



## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

Cary said:


> I am sure someone said it, but in case not: Ellsworth.


I have a 26" Ellsworth in storage. It has the requisite dings and dents in the thin, soft aluminum that was used to make their frames as light as possible without regard to durability. 

What a train wreck that guy was. He and that dude that ran Chumba should start a new bike company just for our entertainment value.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> I have a 26" Ellsworth in storage. It has the requisite dings and dents in the thin, soft aluminum that was used to make their frames as light as possible without regard to durability.
> 
> What a train wreck that guy was. He and that dude that ran Chumba should start a new bike company just for our entertainment value.


I had a friend that cracked 5 Ellsworth Truths in a 1.5 year span. He finally told Tony to stick it and went and bought a Turner.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Definitely Yeti. It's not that they are expensive, I have no problem paying $$$ for something good that works good. It's that they use the SI as a "work-around" for patented dual-linkage systems to get the ~100% anti-squat through most of the travel, like all the other bikes, and this ends up being a more complex, heavier and more failure-prone way of doing what dual links can. This type of engineering doesn't often lead to great results years down the road either, and I usually like to keep my primary FS bike years, not just dump it. Warranty doesn't matter as much to me as sound engineering from the outset. Obviously any other proprietary system where parts may not be available years down the road.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I had a friend that cracked 5 Ellsworth Truths in a 1.5 year span. He finally told Tony to stick it and went and bought a Turner.


The companies that blamed riders for their obvious flaws and mistakes are at the bottom of the barrel. Chris King did this all the time with their flawed headsets that had no compression ring to keep the bearings centered/stable. They were using an o-ring that maybe worked good enough with 2" Rock Shox Judy XCs back in the 1990s and never updated the design as forks and bikes got more capable. Instead, they blamed the constantly loosening headsets and scored steerers on installation and user error. Then they offered an "upgrade" for $$$...well after they had flat out blamed people for their own flaw and denied the issue.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Jayem said:


> The companies that blamed riders for their obvious flaws and mistakes are at the bottom of the barrel. Chris King did this all the time with their flawed headsets that had no compression ring to keep the bearings centered/stable. They were using an o-ring that maybe worked good enough with 2" Rock Shox Judy XCs back in the 1990s and never updated the design as forks and bikes got more capable. Instead, they blamed the constantly loosening headsets and scored steerers on installation and user error. Then they offered an "upgrade" for $$$...well after they had flat out blamed people for their own flaw and denied the issue.


You've mentioned these King HS issues before, but having raced DH at a high level through the 90's... it was the ONE component that seemed to be hassle free. Using a stem with solid binding power probably made a huge difference.

Back on topic - I'll never buy another Yeti. Ever.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

EatsDirt said:


> You've mentioned these King HS issues before, but having raced DH at a high level through the 90's... it was the ONE component that seemed to be hassle free. Using a stem with solid binding power probably made a huge difference.
> 
> Back on topic - I'll never buy another Yeti. Ever.


You were lucky...

It was absolutely flawed and there was no way an o-ring was going to work as well as a compression-ring. Every one else licensed the compression ring from dia-compe during the patent period. When the dia-compe patent duration was up, CK quickly moved to that setup. That tells me all I need to know.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Jayem said:


> The companies that blamed riders for their obvious flaws and mistakes are at the bottom of the barrel. Chris King did this all the time with their flawed headsets that had no compression ring to keep the bearings centered/stable. They were using an o-ring that maybe worked good enough with 2" Rock Shox Judy XCs back in the 1990s and never updated the design as forks and bikes got more capable. Instead, they blamed the constantly loosening headsets and scored steerers on installation and user error. Then they offered an "upgrade" for $$$...well after they had flat out blamed people for their own flaw and denied the issue.


The only headset I ever had a problem with was a King. It was either tight enough it would bind as turned, or when loose enough to not bind had play. Faced the headtube, same problem. Swapped a Cane Creek in, problem solved.


----------



## Pipeliner (Oct 30, 2018)

I had a 2015 Cannondale road bike that really soured me on their proprietary parts specs. Pretty much every bearing on it failed within 400 miles. Had to buy bearings from a Cannondale dealer, had oddball wheel specs so you couldn’t use a standard qr wheel. Even the seat post was oddball, couldn’t replace. Heaviest and worst riding carbon road bike I’ve ever ridden. So, no Cannondales for me.

I see folks in this thread who dislike TREK for a variety of reasons but let me tell ya, their road bikes are pretty awesome nowadays. Haven’t ridden a trek mtb...


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Scott. Those Swiss are notorious for denying claims and asking crazy prices. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Pipeliner said:


> I had a 2015 Cannondale road bike that really soured me on their proprietary parts specs. Had to buy bearings from a Cannondale dealer, had oddball wheel specs so you couldn't use a standard qr wheel. Even the seat post was oddball, couldn't replace. Heaviest and worst riding carbon road bike I've ever ridden. So, no Cannondales for me.


Which Cannondale was it? I had a System Six back in the day and it was one of he best riding road bikes I've owned. Its one bike I really regret selling.

Also a lot of bikes have proprietary seatposts. I currently have a Cervelo and it has a proprietary aero seatpost. My System Six did have a BB30 bottom bracket...but I converted it to threaded.


----------



## EKram (Oct 30, 2020)

Any bike that is over hyped. I have used this technique for other things. I have not been wrong.

Also bikes that are sketchy on frame warranty. Like… so many ways to not honor it, why waste the ink?


----------



## Pipeliner (Oct 30, 2018)

RS VR6 said:


> Which Cannondale was it? I had a System Six back in the day and it was one of he best riding road bikes I've owned. Its one bike I really regret selling.
> 
> Also a lot of bikes have proprietary seatposts. I currently have a Cervelo and it has a proprietary aero seatpost. My System Six did have a BB30 bottom bracket...but I converted it to threaded.


It was a carbon Synapse SRAM Rival build so a lower end carbon bike with hyd disc brakes. Almost every bearing in it went bad and it never sat outside in the rain, had no corrosion. Weighed almost 23lbs. Round seat post, oddball size. I just assume they put junk bearings in on purpose because they were all oddball, had to get from a dealer. Might've been a '14, can't recall for sure. Had qr axles.


----------



## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Pipeliner said:


> It was a carbon Synapse SRAM Rival build so a lower end carbon bike with hyd disc brakes. Almost every bearing in it went bad and it never sat outside in the rain, had no corrosion. Weighed almost 23lbs. Round seat post, oddball size. I just assume they put junk bearings in on purpose because they were all oddball, had to get from a dealer. Might've been a '14, can't recall for sure. Had qr axles.


I have no experience with the Synapse. I did spend some time with a Super Six and that was an excellent bike too.

This was my Cannondale back around 2010. The bike never gave me any issues...including the bearings. About as responsive a bike as one can get.


----------



## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

RS VR6 said:


> I have no experience with the Synapse. I did spend some time with a Super Six and that was an excellent bike too.
> 
> This was my Cannondale back around 2010. The bike never gave me any issues...including the bearings. About as responsive a bike as one can get.
> 
> View attachment 1949305


A few spots are missing a logo. Must have been an oversight.


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Trek, Spec, Cannondale, Yeti.


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

No Buy(subjective):

Cannondale
Turner
Trek
Yeti
Scott
Ibis
Cervelo
Cube
Canyon
Motobecane
BMC
Masi
Bianchi


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cayenne_Pepa said:


> No Buy(subjective):
> 
> Cannondale
> Turner
> ...


So that leaves you with Huffy as your last resort.


----------



## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

What is the count on how often the big S was mentioned?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

28


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Big S.


----------



## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Cayenne_Pepa said:


> No Buy(subjective):
> 
> Cannondale
> Turner
> ...


Curious why you mention ibis? Not a lot of Ibis haters out there. (Yes I currently own an Ibis after moving on from Yeti)

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Also Knolly now that I'm thinking about it. I was on the edge in the past, given that they had used the 4x4 link patent to get around Specialized's horst-link/FSR patent, even though they were definitely using a horst-link. Still, they made stout bikes and seemed to react to what riders want. Then, they decided to sue Intense for making bikes in a fashion that has been made as long as FS bikes have existed, seat tubes in front of the BB. The real shady thing about this wasn't the myriad number of other manufacturers making their bikes with the seat tube in front of the BB, it was that Knolly themselves had used a BS patent to get around Specialized's horst-link patent. It was just bizarre that they would try to sue Intense. Intense had their own prior art that pre-dated Knolly and they said in their counter-suit that Knolly's patent was not valid, at which time Knolly withdrew their lawsuit. But holy ****, how bizarre was that for them to go suing someone for making bikes in such a common and widely used configuration? They definitely dropped to the bottom of my list for that BS.


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

There's actually a lot of brands I would not buy. Some because of geometry, price, components, Warranty, etc. Some because of the company and the way they do business. Some I'm just not interested in or think they're better options.



*OneSpeed* said:


> Trek, Spec, Cannondale, Yeti.


Also YT, no chance. Niner, Canyon, Co-op, Diamondback, Evil, Commencal, Bikes Direct.


----------

