# $4000 Budget



## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Hi all,

Been digging around for an idea of what I “need” or want in a bike. I’d like full suspension so I can hit the nasty stuff eventually (rocks, roots, shredding corners etc.) at higher speeds but not racing anyone. I would like something that is fun to throw around, hit the bigger jumps and not worry about breaking my bike. I have set a max budget at $4000 including tax and a full face helmet. 

Leaning towards the Remedy 8. I’m mostly worried about 3 things.

1) Riding position: I don’t like the “on top of the bike” feel.

2) Jumps: Is this a bike you would launch off jumps and rock some whips? Or is it more a “little jumps are ok” bike?

3) For the price, where does the Remedy lack most compared to other do everything bikes?

I am 5’9 145 lbs, physically coordinated.

Thanks!


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

I should add... I like the sounds of the Remedy as a good all around MTB. I plan to hit the lift trails but also kick around the local river trails. I don’t plan on climbing steep grades for long distances. Open to all suggestions of other bikes too.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

I would be looking at the Santa Cruz Hightower or similar. I would certainly not pay $4k for any Trek. I'm sure they make outstanding $12-1500 bikes, as I have many friends who ride those. But once you have $4k to spend, you have enough money to buy a bike from a company that ONLY makes mountain bikes. And you can pretty much buy the top of the line aluminum mountain bike from any of those companies for $4k.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

twodownzero said:


> I would be looking at the Santa Cruz Hightower or similar. I would certainly not pay $4k for any Trek. I'm sure they make outstanding $12-1500 bikes, as I have many friends who ride those. But once you have $4k to spend, you have enough money to buy a bike from a company that ONLY makes mountain bikes. And you can pretty much buy the top of the line aluminum mountain bike from any of those companies for $4k.


Point taken. Sweet looking bike too! I'm going to check out some vids on it. The seat looks super tall. Is that due to the seat tube angle? One thing is, I can't test ride any of the bikes I'm looking at. Is the riding position more "on top" or "in the cockpit" feeling?


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Pennywise said:


> Point taken. Sweet looking bike too! I'm going to check out some vids on it. The seat looks super tall. Is that due to the seat tube angle? One thing is, I can't test ride any of the bikes I'm looking at. Is the riding position more "on top" or "in the cockpit" feeling?


You're going to need to demo a dozen or more bikes before you should buy any bike. And even then, you'll wonder if you bought the wrong bike.

I don't ride 29ers, but if I was taller, that'd probably be the bike I'd be on, or one of its similar cousins like the Evil Offering.


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## itsky (Jul 26, 2011)

The new aluminum ibis ripmo af


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

twodownzero said:


> I would be looking at the Santa Cruz Hightower or similar. I would certainly not pay $4k for any Trek. I'm sure they make outstanding $12-1500 bikes, as I have many friends who ride those. But once you have $4k to spend, you have enough money to buy a bike from a company that ONLY makes mountain bikes. And you can pretty much buy the top of the line aluminum mountain bike from any of those companies for $4k.


Just because Trek makes other bikes doesn't mean their higher end rides lack anything. The Ford GT is no less impressive because Ford also makes the C-Max.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Sell something.
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2638359/


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Seems like we're missing some pieces:
-What bike do you ride now?
-How long have you been riding for?
-What part of the country do you ride in, and what kind of trails typically?
-Are you experienced with maintenance, or want the support of an LBS (and warranty)?
-Have you tried both 27.5 and 29er platforms?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Fezzari La Sal Peak


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

The Remedy seems like a competitive bike in that range. Go for it if that's the kind of bike you want but make sure that's the kind of bike you want.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

scatterbrained said:


> Just because Trek makes other bikes doesn't mean their higher end rides lack anything. The Ford GT is no less impressive because Ford also makes the C-Max.


It's fine if people think that, as it is just preference after all. But, similarly, if I had money for an exotic car, it wouldn't have a Ford logo on it. Treks have awkward and strange fit as well for me, so the choice was easier.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

twodownzero said:


> It's fine if people think that, as it is just preference after all. But, similarly, if I had money for an exotic car, it wouldn't have a Ford logo on it. Treks have awkward and strange fit as well for me, so the choice was easier.


$4,000 buys you a really nice bike but I'm not sure it's the equivalent of an exotic car, maybe more along the lines of a Civic type R. I personally don't care so much about what badge is on it but having a dealer nearby might influence my choice. For sure demo and compare if at all possible.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> $4,000 buys you a really nice bike but I'm not sure it's the equivalent of an exotic car, maybe more along the lines of a Civic type R. ...


I'd have to agree if we're playing the analogy game. I'd suggest $13,500 bikes like this are the equivalent of an exotic car these days.


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## kevin267 (Mar 9, 2011)

Remedy 8 is a good choice, I have one and can recommend it for what you're describing. Could also look at other beefy trail bikes from other companies, giant reign, Kona process, gt force, norco range, etc. They're all pretty good look for the best deal.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

I think my biggest issue is no bike shops around carry anything i am looking at and when asked to bring one in for me to check out...only if I buy it. Right now I am on a Giant Anyroad 1 for my hardpack/paved road bike. Geometry below..

2015 Giant Anyroad 1
Size / Head Angle / Seat Angle / Top Tube / Head Tube /Chain Stay 
M/18.5 / 72.0° / 73.5° / 21.3" / 7.3" / 16.9" 

Wheel Base / Standover Height /
40.0" 28.9"

This bike feels more like I am "on top" of it rather than "in the bike" and also notice very sensitive to small handlebar movements. It's my only reference for a bike sized to me (I am 5'9 150lbs, average build)

So I may have to blind buy a MTB which is sorta scary and risky. 

My terrain is northeast USA wooded, rooty, rocky and somewhat muddy depending on the day and time of year. There are a few ski slopes nearby that are bike parks/trails in the summer with a lift to the top. Green to double black diamond ranges.

Any input or recommendations are much appreciated!


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

I recommend trying to find demo days.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

93EXCivic said:


> I recommend trying to find demo days.


I would love to but, unfortunately not able to. I do have a chance to try both a Giant Glory and a Devinci Wilson...not sure how comparable these will be for ride position and sizing though.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Pennywise said:


> I think my biggest issue is no bike shops around carry anything i am looking at and when asked to bring one in for me to check out...only if I buy it. Right now I am on a Giant Anyroad 1 for my hardpack/paved road bike. Geometry below..
> 
> 2015 Giant Anyroad 1
> Size / Head Angle / Seat Angle / Top Tube / Head Tube /Chain Stay
> ...


Thx for the detail. Just to get it out of the way, if you're doing lift & downhill, that's a specific bike (downhill), and you wouldn't be using that on a typical (up and down, aka XC) trail system.

Unfortunately the Anyroad won't help you in your selection.

Don't buy blind no matter what, especially at that pricepoint. Some ideas you can try:
-I'm guessing you are likely a Medium frame given your height, but torso, inseam and arms can move you to a different size.
-If a shop has the entry level version of a bike you're eyeing, you can at least ride that for fit, and the size should translate to the $4K bike you ultimately buy.
-Demo days as mentioned above area a great idea, even a used bike of the same type can help narrow down the sizing.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

scatterbrained said:


> Just because Trek makes other bikes doesn't mean their higher end rides lack anything. The Ford GT is no less impressive because Ford also makes the C-Max.


No less impressive. And nowhere near to a Bugatti.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

phlegm said:


> Thx for the detail. Just to get it out of the way, if you're doing lift & downhill, that's a specific bike (downhill), and you wouldn't be using that on a typical (up and down, aka XC) trail system.


Would you say a Remedy or similar is a bad choice in that case? I figured a DH bike would be a little faster and more stable at higher speeds but I do see reviews of people flying through DH trails like a beast on the Remedy and other comparable bikes. Is that only because they are all pro riders sponsored by redbull with crazy skills? Maybe a little of both? What would be the main drawback for the Remedy on a DH trail?

Thanks for the help!


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Pennywise said:


> Would you say a Remedy or similar is a bad choice in that case? I figured a DH bike would be a little faster and more stable at higher speeds but I do see reviews of people flying through DH trails like a beast on the Remedy and other comparable bikes. Is that only because they are all pro riders sponsored by redbull with crazy skills? Maybe a little of both? What would be the main drawback for the Remedy on a DH trail?
> 
> Thanks for the help!


I'll let someone else answer how suitable the Remedy would be on a DH course, as I'm an XC guy. I would say whatever they rent at that resort is probably deemed the best bet, with anything else being a tradeoff.

It's just about tradeoffs - the Remedy as an AM bike trades off some hardcore DH capability for the ability to be used elsewhere. It is however still heavy relative to a XC bike, or Trail bike, so hurts in other ways.

Best bet is to target the type of riding you do most, and buy the best bike for those conditions.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Check out the Banshee Prime.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I recommend that you buy the Remedy because it's your first choice. Your first choice is typically your best choice. Otherwise you may start to wonder why you bought something else and you end up selling that bike and buying a Remedy anyways.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Battery said:


> I recommend that you buy the Remedy because it's your first choice. Your first choice is typically your best choice. Otherwise you may start to wonder why you bought something else and you end up selling that bike and buying a Remedy anyways.


Is that from experience?


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Battery said:


> I recommend that you buy the Remedy because it's your first choice. Your first choice is typically your best choice. Otherwise you may start to wonder why you bought something else and you end up selling that bike and buying a Remedy anyways.


That does happen sometimes. Although I'm finding more and more options...like the YT Jeffsy or the Capra and the Canyon Strive. What I'm having difficulty with is comparing them with each other and what the pros and cons of each would be co pared with Remedy or Canyon Strive etc.

The selling points for me are things like "playful", "easy to maneuver" and "can take whatever you throw at it like jumps etc"

How is the YT Jeffsy compared?


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Those are really subjective measures. And, in any event, it is impossible to buy the "right" bike "on paper," even with the erstwhile assistance of mtbr nabobs.

Maybe the way to go is to cut down your budget some, say to 2500 or 3000, so a mistake will be less costly. 

It is probably a mistake to buy a bike adapted for jumping and serious downhilling as your first bike, assuming you've never actually jumped or downhilled. By the time you acquire those skills, you will have a better idea what you want in a bike, anyway, and won't be comparing it to a hybrid.

Get a sturdy alloy long travel trail bike instead of futzing with AM or DH and see what you really like to ride and figure out what you really want in your next bike, whether it be AM, DH, or XC.

Any decent trail bike can do all of the things you described until you start black type downhills, repeatedly and near exclusively. And then something else will be a better "fit." But unless you are some kind of bike savant (or maybe have an extensive BMX background), you're at least a couple years away from that. And, you aren't big enough to worry about breaking a decent bike unless you really screw the pooch.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

itsky said:


> The new aluminum ibis ripmo af


^ this ... and pony up for the SLX build


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

jcd46 said:


> Is that from experience?


Too much experience lol!


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Pennywise said:


> That does happen sometimes. Although I'm finding more and more options...like the YT Jeffsy or the Capra and the Canyon Strive. What I'm having difficulty with is comparing them with each other and what the pros and cons of each would be co pared with Remedy or Canyon Strive etc.
> 
> The selling points for me are things like "playful", "easy to maneuver" and "can take whatever you throw at it like jumps etc"
> 
> How is the YT Jeffsy compared?


I can't imagine you'd have issues with the YT or the Canyon, but if you did how would you get them serviced? 
.
As far as the Remedy being a "jump bike" or a "DH bike", it's more of a do it all bike. The point of the Remedy is one bike to do it all. Granted, it does aggressive trail and enduro style DH trails quite well. I don't think I'd send mine down a World Cup DH track but. . . . 
.
Of course if you want something a bit more capable there is the Slash, but that might be too much bike for where you're riding. The longer travel and bigger wheels make the bike more capable at the expense of playfulness.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Pennywise said:


> I would love to but, unfortunately not able to. I do have a chance to try both a Giant Glory and a Devinci Wilson...not sure how comparable these will be for ride position and sizing though.


Where do you live that they don't do demo days? I don't live in some mountain bike mecca but this year we have had 5 brands come and demo in our town plus I know there have been several other bike demo days within an hour and half of where I am.

I really recommend you try to find some cause $4000 is a decent amount to spend especially when you don't seem to know what you want for sure. People on the forums are just going to throw out their favorite bikes and those may or may not work for you. You could easily spend $4000 and then end up with a bike that you kind of hate for one reason or another.

You mention a bike park. Maybe ask them if they ever have bike manufacturers come thru to do demos. Or do they have bikes that you can rent (I am guessing that is Glory and Wilson are those the only choices?)?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

93EXCivic said:


> Where do you live that they don't do demo days? I don't live in some mountain bike mecca but this year we have had 5 brands come and demo in our town plus I know there have been several other bike demo days within an hour and half of where I am.


I can't speak for the op but I know that there are towns and places where mtb demo days are an extreme rarity, if ever. I'd have to travel several hours to attend one.

$4,000 is a fair amount but if the op can spare it good for him (or her) Being a beginner and not knowing exactly what kind of bike you want complicates things but otherwise I'm not opposed to buying a bike on paper, I've done it many times and have always been satisfied.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> ... I'm not opposed to buying a bike on paper, I've done it many times and have always been satisfied.


Agreed, and I've done the same, but only after knowing my fit on that brand's sizing scale.

As I mentioned above, if the OP can at least get on an entry tier of the same brand, and confirm the sizing, they should feel better about ordering in the $4K version.


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

If you don't have a mountain bike now I honestly think you will be blown away by a modern geo full suspension bike, riding first ideal but if not just make sure you get a good shop who will work with to help you make adjustments to fine tune the bike and suspension setup. 5'9 likely a medium especially for what you describe in between sizes I would size down, if you were looking for XC or endurance stability than maybe size up.

Just remember save a little for small adjustments to contact points and make small tweaks to the bike little bit at a time. Especially with saddle, seatpost, handlebar adjustments.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

phlegm said:


> Thx for the detail. Just to get it out of the way, if you're doing lift & downhill, that's a specific bike (downhill), and you wouldn't be using that on a typical (up and down, aka XC) trail system.
> 
> Unfortunately the Anyroad won't help you in your selection.
> 
> ...


Depending on the split of riding types , a bigger enduro bike can be a great compromise. Places like Highland, and even Windrock according to the park manager, have tons of people riding them on enduro rigs. Is it optimal for XC and lift served, probably not. However, it can handle either with minimal complaints.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Depending on the split of riding types , a bigger enduro bike can be a great compromise. Places like Highland, and even Windrock according to the park manager, have tons of people riding them on enduro rigs. Is it optimal for XC and lift served, probably not. However, it can handle either with minimal complaints.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Thanks for that input, and good reply. I'm an XC guy, so would never comment on the suitability of an AM bike for full DH via lift.

The only concern I'd have is that when you try for a do-it-all bike, you're ultimately making tradeoffs on either side of the spectrum. If the OP can better determine what he likes day-to-day, I'd still say try to target a bike for that use.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Trek makes good bikes. Look at the Slash 8 ($3700). That thing rips downhill. I currently own a '17 Fuel EX which is surprisingly capable on descents, but it sounds like it's maybe too little bike for what you're trying to do. Availability may be an issue though (not just with Trek).

All that being said, my next bike is going to the the new SC Hightower.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> I can't speak for the op but I know that there are towns and places where mtb demo days are an extreme rarity, if ever. I'd have to travel several hours to attend one.
> 
> $4,000 is a fair amount but if the op can spare it good for him (or her) Being a beginner and not knowing exactly what kind of bike you want complicates things but otherwise I'm not opposed to buying a bike on paper, I've done it many times and have always been satisfied.


Fair enough. I just I assumed that they were pretty much common anywhere there was mountain biking if they were coming local to me.

I order my last bike based on looking at specs but I also had demoed a decent number of bikes so I had an idea of what I am looking for. The OP is coming from a hybrid and doesn't seem to know what he wants for sure. It is soo easy to get distracted by the silly language used by mountain bike reviews for a beginner that I really think going out of the way to demo bikes is worth the effort at least to start out. I mean everything apparently climbs like a mountain goat, is super poppy and flickable, etc.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

phlegm said:


> Thanks for that input, and good reply. I'm an XC guy, so would never comment on the suitability of an AM bike for full DH via lift.
> 
> The only concern I'd have is that when you try for a do-it-all bike, you're ultimately making tradeoffs on either side of the spectrum. If the OP can better determine what he likes day-to-day, I'd still say try to target a bike for that use.


You're absolutely making tradeoffs, that said if you're not worried about speed uphill I've taken my Rallon (160/150 coil both ends) on 25 - 30 mile rides and it was fine. Was it as fast as the Oiz I have on order would be, not even close but it wasn't horrible.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## WVU RUSH (Jun 16, 2009)

I recently (1.5 years ago) upgraded from a 2008 Cannondale Carbon Rush to a 2018 SC Hightower C and what a difference the new geometry, 29 inch wheels and a dropper post make. 

I am about your size (5'9" 155lbs) and ride a large HT. The LBS said I could do either a large or medium but since I would be doing a lot of bike park (Snowshoe and Seven Springs) I should get the large so it is more stable at high speed.

The Remedy 8 will feel like you are down in the bike (especially with the seat dropped) and handle almost all terrain at local bike parks. 
The only issue (and this is personal opinion) is with a 160/150 mm bike it may 'mute' your local trails and take some of the fun out of them. 

That is why I like the 140/135mm travel of the HT. It still allows me to hit all of the flow trails and most of the black diamond tech trails at my local bike park but still doesnt take the fun out of the small jumps on my local trails. 

I would also budget for a good set of knee pads at a minimum. 

As others have stated ride as many different bikes as you can and if possible buy from a local bike shop.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

WVU RUSH said:


> That is why I like the 140/135mm travel of the HT. It still allows me to hit all of the flow trails and most of the black diamond tech trails at my local bike park but still doesnt take the fun out of the small jumps on my local trails.


Does more travel in the shocks make it more difficult to get the bike into the air? So with a 135 rear it's easier to get air on small jumps than on a 150 (all other variables aside)?


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Pennywise said:


> Does more travel in the shocks make it more difficult to get the bike into the air? So with a 135 rear it's easier to get air on small jumps than on a 150 (all other variables aside)?


In my experience, not really. It does mute the feedback on takeoff and landing for smaller stuff though.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## WVU RUSH (Jun 16, 2009)

Not necessarily, shock set up and technique has way more to do with it than length of travel. 

When riding park, I always increase rear shock pressure and add 2-3 clicks on compression on front fork to stiffen things up a little. I also increase rebound dampening to slow how fast the tires return to normal position. 


The slightly stiffer set up allows more predictable launches off of the lips and you dont 'soak' up the take offs as much. 

FWIW I rode my Rush for over a year before I figured out how to set up the suspension properly (friendly bike shop owner in WY showed me). It makes a world of difference and can be the difference in crashing on a jump you screwed up on and saving it. 

With regard to 'muting' the trail I was refereeing to how typically local trails have overall smaller features and a bike that is to big would make every obstacle easier and maybe take out some of the challenge.

For instance there is a local double on my favorite trail that I just hit for the first time a month ago on my High Tower, if I had a SC V10 (or something) I would have tried it years ago knowing the bike would take it even if I completely cased it. 
Having said that after I figured out the trail speed and line I was able to go back and clear it on my Rush which is 120mm travel bike and you talk about a rush (pun intended). I had rode around that double for 10 years before I attempted it and that was only because I had a bike that I knew would 'bail' me out when I screw up.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

mlx john said:


> All that being said, my next bike is going to the the new SC Hightower.


What are your thoughts on the Hightower D vs R...is it essential to grab the R for the extra $600 in your opinion?


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Also, I should add that I'm leaning more towards a 27.5 rather than 29 based on the info I've gathered between the 2.


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## indianadave (Apr 27, 2010)

$4000 for a beginner bike?
Are you planning on immediately going out and doing X-Games type stuff?
You mention jumps and whips...
Have you any experience in this type of riding? Or mountainbiking in general?
Sounds like you have too much money burning a hole in your pocket.
I'd get a lower-level "do it all" bike, start riding, and see where your interest goes...
Otherwise you may end up spending $4000 on the wrong bike.

Oh yea... and if you spend less on a beginner bike, and do end up playing like you're in the X-Games, you'll have more money for medical bills...


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## La Nada (Mar 1, 2017)

If it was me, I'd get the new orbea occam m30. Full carbon frame with lifetime warranty. Slx/xt 12 speed. Or you can get the one below that and upgrade to the factory 36 150 and still be at $4000. 29 only though


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

indianadave said:


> $4000 for a beginner bike?
> Are you planning on immediately going out and doing X-Games type stuff?
> You mention jumps and whips...
> Have you any experience in this type of riding? Or mountainbiking in general?
> ...


This is good advise for most if they are newcomers however, I am the type to pick things up extremely quick and very physically coordinated naturally. I would rather buy a bike with the capabilities I need rather than buy something less capable only to hit a road block in 2 years and have to spend thousands more. It does not make sense to me to buy 2 bikes rather than 1. In my experience it is best for me to practice on something better suited for what I intend to ride on. Same as I would suggest to anyone getting into a hobby or sport especially...buy the best you can afford. I appreciate your suggestion but I am not looking for a beginner bike.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

tuckerjt07 said:


> ...Was it as fast as the Oiz I have on order would be, not even close but it wasn't horrible.
> ...


That Oiz looks sweet - hadn't heard of it before.

OP needs to decide how much "up" he'll be riding I suppose.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

phlegm said:


> That Oiz looks sweet - hadn't heard of it before.
> 
> OP needs to decide how much "up" he'll be riding I suppose.


I'll have to hit my local trails along with the lift trails and really pay attention to that. I don't plan on pedaling up mountains but I'm sure there are a few spots with an incline...how much I'm not entirely sure yet but assuming the lift trails will be minimal...assuming lol.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Oh wow at the direction of this thread. I hadn't realized that you don't really have the experience to select a bike yet. If you don't absolutely know you need a longer travel bike, you need to probably be looking at trail category bikes first, not enduro bikes. And please do yourself a favor and demo some bikes first--don't spend $4k without riding a LOT of bikes....


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Now I’m really thinking about that Santa Cruz HT. Been checking out the Jeffsy too...so many choices!!!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Pennywise said:


> Now I'm really thinking about that Santa Cruz HT. Been checking out the Jeffsy too...so many choices!!!


You should have never came on this site, otherwise you would have been shredding on that rad Trek now instead of endlessly deliberating. Don't let analysis paralysis be your undoing


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> You should have never came on this site, otherwise you would have been shredding on that rad Trek now instead of endlessly deliberating. Don't let analysis paralysis be your undoing


Hahahaha you're right! That Trek was the first to grab my soul. Watched a ton of bike videos, reviews, comparisons and kept going back to the Remedy in the end. But with all things, gotta know what else is in the bin. Just in case I missed a real diamond in the rough.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Pennywise said:


> This is good advise for most if they are newcomers however, I am the type to pick things up extremely quick and very physically coordinated naturally. I would rather buy a bike with the capabilities I need rather than buy something less capable only to hit a road block in 2 years and have to spend thousands more. It does not make sense to me to buy 2 bikes rather than 1. In my experience it is best for me to practice on something better suited for what I intend to ride on. Same as I would suggest to anyone getting into a hobby or sport especially...buy the best you can afford. I appreciate your suggestion but I am not looking for a beginner bike.


No one is saying get a "beginner bike." You really have no idea what capabilities you need or what qualities and features yield those capabilities. You're letting other people, who aren't you, tell you what capabilities they think you need.

Two years is a pretty long time to own a first bike, maybe even a second or third. Your skills improve and your priorities change, as do the capabilities of available bikes. What we are saying is get a "do it all" trail bike, cheaper, rather than buy a bike now based on speculation about what you'll be doing with that bike in two years. You have a better than 50/50 shot of being wrong on your speculation.

This isn't a "buy the best you can afford" situation. It's a situation of figuring out what is it that you need, what is best for you. Buying the "best" downhill bike for cross-country is an expensive mistake. Buying the "best" cross-country bike for downhill is the same.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

TwiceHorn said:


> No one is saying get a "beginner bike." You really have no idea what capabilities you need or what qualities and features yield those capabilities. You're letting other people, who aren't you, tell you what capabilities they think you need.
> 
> Two years is a pretty long time to own a first bike, maybe even a second or third. Your skills improve and your priorities change, as do the capabilities of available bikes. What we are saying is get a "do it all" trail bike, cheaper, rather than buy a bike now based on speculation about what you'll be doing with that bike in two years. You have a better than 50/50 shot of being wrong on your speculation.
> 
> This isn't a "buy the best you can afford" situation. It's a situation of figuring out what is it that you need, what is best for you. Buying the "best" downhill bike for cross-country is an expensive mistake. Buying the "best" cross-country bike for downhill is the same.


I never said I was looking for the "best" bike. Only the "best" of what I am looking for in a bike. I am fully capable of process of elimination based on reviews, comments, suggestions, specs and anecdotal evidence. Thanks for your input.


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## Screamer (May 1, 2008)

You have to many choices out there...but at the same time not all $4000 bikes are setup or ride the same. Got to test ride as many as you can...maybe rent a couple nice bikes for the day.
Who knows, maybe you only need a $3000 bike?


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Pennywise said:


> I'll have to hit my local trails along with the lift trails and really pay attention to that. I don't plan on pedaling up mountains but I'm sure there are a few spots with an incline...how much I'm not entirely sure yet but assuming the lift trails will be minimal...assuming lol.


Kid*, I'll come right out and ask you straight up: have you ever actually been mountain biking before?

*inferred


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

GiddyHitch said:


> Kid*, I'll come right out and ask you straight up: have you ever actually been mountain biking before?
> 
> *inferred


Sorry, not a kid here.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Ok I think I’ve narrowed it down to 3 bikes. Thanks for all the help and suggestions! My gut is still leaning toward the Remedy 8 so that’s probably the bike I will get. 

To those that seem to be upset that I am buying such a sweet bike... I appreciate your concern but I am an adult and can afford a sweet bike so no need to assert your assumptions.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Pennywise said:


> Ok I think I've narrowed it down to 3 bikes. Thanks for all the help and suggestions! My gut is still leaning toward the Remedy 8 so that's probably the bike I will get.
> 
> To those that seem to be upset that I am buying such a sweet bike... I appreciate your concern but I am an adult and can afford a sweet bike so no need to assert your assumptions.


Awesome with bringing your choices down to just three! Like I said, your first choice tends to be the best one. You can probably find a Trek dealer nearby to test ride a Remedy. You might find them on clearance right now too.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

GiddyHitch said:


> Kid*, I'll come right out and ask you straight up: have you ever actually been mountain biking before?
> 
> *inferred


That wasn't necessary.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Battery said:


> Awesome with bringing your choices down to just three! Like I said, your first choice tends to be the best one. You can probably find a Trek dealer nearby to test ride a Remedy. You might find them on clearance right now too.


I do have 3 Trek dealers around...but none of them have or plan to have a Remedy in stock. I'm wondering if I can persuade one of them to order a remedy in my size by telling them "i'll buy it if it feels ok on a test ride". One dealer said they can get a Medium 2019 Remedy 7 for $3100 but hesitant because a 2020 Remedy 7 is only $200 more but not a color I particularly like. Although, the "M" is listed for 5'3.4" - 5'7.7" and I am 5'9" so unsure how bad of a fit that might be? I'm guessing I would have to put the seatpost up a little higher on a smaller bike?


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## WVU RUSH (Jun 16, 2009)

It is more than seat post height. The reach of the bike will be longer as well. A bike to small will feel cramped. 

A medium may fit you but it sounds like you need a large.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Pennywise said:


> I do have 3 Trek dealers around...but none of them have or plan to have a Remedy in stock. I'm wondering if I can persuade one of them to order a remedy in my size by telling them "i'll buy it if it feels ok on a test ride". One dealer said they can get a Medium 2019 Remedy 7 for $3100 but hesitant because a 2020 Remedy 7 is only $200 more but not a color I particularly like. Although, the "M" is listed for 5'3.4" - 5'7.7" and I am 5'9" so unsure how bad of a fit that might be? I'm guessing I would have to put the seatpost up a little higher on a smaller bike?


Treks run shorter than other brands. You will feel very cramped on a bike that is too small for you. I'm 5'5" and they want me on a medium, and after riding my friend's small, I know why. I am a "small" in every other brand of bike.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

WVU RUSH said:


> It is more than seat post height. The reach of the bike will be longer as well. A bike to small will feel cramped.
> 
> A medium may fit you but it sounds like you need a large.


Ok thanks for the input. They do have a M/L that maybe I should consider. On paper, I'm pretty much right in the middle for a M/L (5'6.9" - 5'10.5")


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

@twodownzero that's very helpful. In that case I better stick to M/L with Trek, at least for this one. Thanks!


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Pennywise said:


> I do have 3 Trek dealers around...but none of them have or plan to have a Remedy in stock. ...


OK, I hate to take us down this rabbit hole again, as this thread seems to push you 3 steps forward, then 2 back,  but...

It is getting to end-of-season, but an LBS will typically sell what fits the local market. There will be a ton of entry level stuff you can set aside, but then there's the list of the mid to high end bikes that are sold. Some of these will be by order only, but the shop will usually have some of their enthusiast level "best bets".

To have zero Remedys (Remedies? It's a brand name, so now idea how to pluralmajig.) across 3 different Trek outlets tells me its not on their radar.

Is there any chance that 160F/150R is not required for the majority of riding where you live, that resort aside?


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

phlegm said:


> That wasn't necessary.


What wasn't necessary? He isn't familiar with his local trails, doesn't seem knowledgeable about bikes, and avoided the question. Answering "no" would be fine - this is the Beginner's Corner after all, but are you telling me that this isn't critical information? Your advice for someone looking to spending four grand wouldn't differ between someone who's been on a handful of trail or bike park rides versus someone who's never ridden before?


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

phlegm said:


> OK, I hate to take us down this rabbit hole again, as this thread seems to push you 3 steps forward, then 2 back,  but...
> 
> It is getting to end-of-season, but an LBS will typically sell what fits the local market. There will be a ton of entry level stuff you can set aside, but then there's the list of the mid to high end bikes that are sold. Some of these will be by order only, but the shop will usually have some of their enthusiast level "best bets".
> 
> ...


I think the issue is the area does not have a big biking crowd. Aside from the local resort/DH park, you have to make or find your own trails. Most of the trails people do ride are old rail trails that do not require suspension at all. We used to build big jumps on the trails by the river and launch BMX bikes or whatever frankenbikes we had available but those eroded and the new generation was more interested in computers than anything outdoors for the most part. I might just go down there and try to revive those tracks come spring. I will mostly be heading to the lift trails though. I'm sure if I was closer to the city there would be more demand for serious MTB's but unfortunately / or fortunately, I'm surrounded by hills...which will be up to me to find or make some trails I suppose. The deciding factor for me was finding that there is a lift park nearby that has some pretty sweet trails from beginner to double black diamond and they seem to be putting money into them getting better each year!

Time to bust out the power tools and load the truck up with some lumber to get something going down by the river again. I see a lot of potential.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Do any of those dealers have a Fuel EX in stock? I think you'd likely be served pretty well by a Fuel EX. I have a 2016 Remedy 29er and the current Fuel EX is essentially the same bike. I've changed the front travel on my bike to 160mm, but the only times I really use that extra travel are on very gnarly "unsanctioned" DH oriented trails. Even hitting park style trails with jumps and drops I'm only using about 150mm of travel and that's with the equivalent of one volume token in the fork. You might want to consider shifting your search just a bit and give the EX a try.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Pennywise said:


> I think the issue is the area does not have a big biking crowd. Aside from the local resort/DH park, you have to make or find your own trails. Most of the trails people do ride are old rail trails that do not require suspension at all. We used to build big jumps on the trails by the river and launch BMX bikes or whatever frankenbikes we had available but those eroded and the new generation was more interested in computers than anything outdoors for the most part. I might just go down there and try to revive those tracks come spring. I will mostly be heading to the lift trails though. I'm sure if I was closer to the city there would be more demand for serious MTB's but unfortunately / or fortunately, I'm surrounded by hills...which will be up to me to find or make some trails I suppose. The deciding factor for me was finding that there is a lift park nearby that has some pretty sweet trails from beginner to double black diamond and they seem to be putting money into them getting better each year!
> 
> Time to bust out the power tools and load the truck up with some lumber to get something going down by the river again. I see a lot of potential.


You might want to check trailforks.com and mtbproject.com to see what trails are nearby. One would think if the ski joints know enough to make downhills in the summer, there's some other trails nearby. MTB trails tend not to exist in a vacuum.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Pennywise said:


> Ok I think I've narrowed it down to 3 bikes. Thanks for all the help and suggestions! My gut is still leaning toward the Remedy 8 so that's probably the bike I will get.
> 
> To those that seem to be upset that I am buying such a sweet bike... I appreciate your concern but I am an adult and can afford a sweet bike so no need to assert your assumptions.


*rme*

Good luck with it, friendo.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

GiddyHitch said:


> What wasn't necessary? ...


The inference you applied in an insulting way to the OP.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Pennywise said:


> I think the issue is the area does not have a big biking crowd. Aside from the local resort/DH park, you have to make or find your own trails. Most of the trails people do ride are old rail trails that do not require suspension at all. We used to build big jumps on the trails by the river and launch BMX bikes or whatever frankenbikes we had available but those eroded and the new generation was more interested in computers than anything outdoors for the most part. I might just go down there and try to revive those tracks come spring. I will mostly be heading to the lift trails though. I'm sure if I was closer to the city there would be more demand for serious MTB's but unfortunately / or fortunately, I'm surrounded by hills...which will be up to me to find or make some trails I suppose. The deciding factor for me was finding that there is a lift park nearby that has some pretty sweet trails from beginner to double black diamond and they seem to be putting money into them getting better each year!
> 
> Time to bust out the power tools and load the truck up with some lumber to get something going down by the river again. I see a lot of potential.


If you're thinking you'll almost always ride at the bike park/ with some sort of uplift, then I'd get a long travel trail bike ( an "enduro" bike if you will). It sounds like you have no intention in pedaling, which means you're almost all the way downhill focused.

A long travel trail bike will handle that stuff well (anything short of a World Cup Downhill course anyway), while still being able to pedal enough to do the odd trails that you find outside the bike park.

Bikes like the yt Capra, kona process 153/165, trek slash, commencal meta am, ibis ripmo af, etc.

I also noticed your budget includes a full face helmet (good idea). I'd also say to throw some other armor into that budget, primarily knee, and elbow pads, and then a pair of goggles and gloves.

Also, I'd be very surprised if your area doesn't have any trails other than the bike park. Most of the time trails are located away from the city centers, in the more rural areas, simply because that is where the land is available. The other comments to check Trailforks.com, mtbproject, or singletracks to check and see what the trail situation is like around you is a good one.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Pennywise said:


> I do have 3 Trek dealers around...but none of them have or plan to have a Remedy in stock. I'm wondering if I can persuade one of them to order a remedy in my size by telling them "i'll buy it if it feels ok on a test ride". One dealer said they can get a Medium 2019 Remedy 7 for $3100 but hesitant because a 2020 Remedy 7 is only $200 more but not a color I particularly like. Although, the "M" is listed for 5'3.4" - 5'7.7" and I am 5'9" so unsure how bad of a fit that might be? I'm guessing I would have to put the seatpost up a little higher on a smaller bike?


 I'd get the large. Unless you have short arms for a 5'9 person.
I'm 5'9 with pretty much symmetrical body type and every medium I've been on was too short in reach. Especially Trek's.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

The Stumpjumper EVO might be worth looking into. It'd definitely be able to handle whatever you could throw at it. As a new rider, the biggest limiting factor is likely going to be you. I wouldn't rush into taking the big jumps or trying whips until you have a solid foundation. Lots of riders are "physically coordinated" but still kinda suck.

If I were in your situation, I'd buy a month of access at llbmtb.com and use the bike fit calculators (or buy Lee McCormack's book "Dialed") and learn about his system of bike fit and his riding technique theory. Both have been super helpful to me, and I've been biking for quite a while. His premise for mtb bike fit is that the distance from the bottom bracket to the bars should equal the distance from your hands to your feet (summary here: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/lee-mccormacks-guide-to-perfect-bike-set-up.html and https://www.pinkbike.com/u/leelikesbikes/blog/dialing-in-your-bike-for-your-riding-style.html). After setting up my bike this way, I'm not likely to just relying how a bike feels while seated.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Pennywise said:


> I think the issue is the area does not have a big biking crowd. Aside from the local resort/DH park, you have to make or find your own trails. Most of the trails people do ride are old rail trails that do not require suspension at all. We used to build big jumps on the trails by the river and launch BMX bikes or whatever frankenbikes we had available but those eroded and the new generation was more interested in computers than anything outdoors for the most part. I might just go down there and try to revive those tracks come spring. I will mostly be heading to the lift trails though. I'm sure if I was closer to the city there would be more demand for serious MTB's but unfortunately / or fortunately, I'm surrounded by hills...which will be up to me to find or make some trails I suppose. The deciding factor for me was finding that there is a lift park nearby that has some pretty sweet trails from beginner to double black diamond and they seem to be putting money into them getting better each year!
> 
> Time to bust out the power tools and load the truck up with some lumber to get something going down by the river again. I see a lot of potential.


I think you may be surprised at what is out there if you know where to look. I'm not into railtrails but I've ridden great singletrack all over the NE for many years and have been FS since 2001. Everything from Western Maine, Northern VT and NH, Mass and I live in CT where there are countless great singletrack locations the average person has no idea exists. New stuff is constantly showing up and it's rare that I ever see more than a couple of riders on any of my 2-3hr rides.

Also, there are different classes of mountainbikers. Some rarely do singletrack and only ride 'rail-trails' or dirt roads. Others live for great singletrack, and others want lift access. Everyone knows where the lifts, railtrails and dirt roads are but we have to work at finding great singletrack locations. Mostly word of mouth and some exploring but it's getting much easier now.

If you don't have 'TrailForks' loaded on your phone...do it. You will be amazed what is out there. I ride 3X/week and regularly hit 8-10 great locations around here. But just last week a new 10+ mile network popped up on TrailForks very close to me. I checked it out the other day and it's knarly, tight, rocky, super challenging terrain that I never would have known about.

Regarding bike...I do mostly XC with an occasional trip north for lift access. The Kona Process 153 is a beast and does fine in a bike park. I'm 6'4" / 220 on an XL frame but I chose 27.5 because of all the tight/technical terrain. You don't need to spend $4K to get a great bike. I paid $2300 a year and a half ago and it's logged over 2500 singletrack miles. It's by far the best all-round bike I've ever had. A riding buddy picked up a 2018 Jeffsey 29er for $2400 a year ago and he absolutely loves that thing.


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## indianadave (Apr 27, 2010)

I am still struggling seeing $4000 and budget in the same sentence, especially in the beginners corner...
I still say get a less expensive bike to start, find it's shortfalls, or what it does great, then trade up in a year or so.
Who knows. You may find that it does everything you can dish out, and you don't need to upgrade until your riding progresses past its abilities.
I seriously doubt you're going to be hitting double diamond trails and doing whips and flips in your first year of downhill riding, especially when you haven't even been mountainbiking much in the first place.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

indianadave said:


> I am still struggling seeing $4000 and budget in the same sentence, especially in the beginners corner...
> I still say get a less expensive bike to start, find it's shortfalls, or what it does great, then trade up in a year or so.
> Who knows. You may find that it does everything you can dish out, and you don't need to upgrade until your riding progresses past its abilities.
> I seriously doubt you're going to be hitting double diamond trails and doing whips and flips in your first year of downhill riding, especially when you haven't even been mountainbiking much in the first place.


Pretty much agree, but it's not the budget. It's buying a semi-specialized bike. Even the bike in question is fairly reasonable, although mighty long in the travel for a newb. Combine that with the risk of sizing errors in the lack of ability to test ride and that there might be as good or better bikes for the money, some with a little less travel (see post 78), and I think there's a lot of room for error here.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

So I checked my LBS and we discussed a little bit about sizing. M/L is what he suggested. The price was under $4200 for the 2020 Remedy8 with tubeless setup after tax and everything. Seems like an average rate for the “discount” most LBS’s would give right?

Think I’ll pull the trigger next week and get some riding in before the ice and snow comes. Looking at the Fox Dropframe helmet for trail riding and I haven’t decided on a full face for the more aggressive riding yet. 

Thanks everyone for the help, tips and recommendations! I’ll post my first thoughts as soon as I get a chance to play with it.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Pennywise said:


> So I checked my LBS and we discussed a little bit about sizing. M/L is what he suggested. The price was under $4200 for the 2020 Remedy8 with tubeless setup after tax and everything. Seems like an average rate for the "discount" most LBS's would give right?
> 
> Think I'll pull the trigger next week and get some riding in before the ice and snow comes. Looking at the Fox Dropframe helmet for trail riding and I haven't decided on a full face for the more aggressive riding yet.
> 
> Thanks everyone for the help, tips and recommendations! I'll post my first thoughts as soon as I get a chance to play with it.


Congrats on pulling the trigger! Can't wait to see some photos!


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## A/C in Az (Jan 14, 2019)

Pennywise said:


> I think my biggest issue is no bike shops around carry anything i am looking at and when asked to bring one in for me to check out...only if I buy it.
> Any input or recommendations are much appreciated!


If you list your location in your profile and in the thread, you will find members that live close enough for you to meet and test ride their bikes.
Don't hesitate to call the various manufacturers because they all have sales reps with demo bikes constantly touring the country. It's a tough job, I'm sure....


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

I will definitely post pics....once I find pedals and a cool saddle.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

A/C in Az said:


> If you list your location in your profile and in the thread, you will find members that live close enough for you to meet and test ride their bikes.
> Don't hesitate to call the various manufacturers because they all have sales reps with demo bikes constantly touring the country. It's a tough job, I'm sure....


Great idea!


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## WVU RUSH (Jun 16, 2009)

Enjoy the new ride. 
IMO, if you will be riding any park at all; get the full face. 

My full face saved me on a low speed wreck this weekend at my local bike park. Face would have hit a tree. Probably would not have been a 'serious' injury, but it was nice to just laugh about it and not have a busted nose and mouth full of bark. 

Heels down, elbows up. Have fun.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

WVU RUSH said:


> Enjoy the new ride.
> IMO, if you will be riding any park at all; get the full face.
> 
> My full face saved me on a low speed wreck this weekend at my local bike park. Face would have hit a tree. Probably would not have been a 'serious' injury, but it was nice to just laugh about it and not have a busted nose and mouth full of bark.
> ...


Thanks for the tip! I'm looking at the Bell Super DH and the Giro Switchblade. Leaning towards the Super DH. I know they are modulars so not quite as safe...in theory...as a solid full face but kicking around the small trails without the chingaurd is more reality for me. I will definitely wear FF on any downhill trails or launching off dirt mounds. I couldn't find a 3/4 or 1/2 helmet that seemed as safe as the Super DH without chingaurd on either. Maybe I need to keep looking.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

First ride just dicking around I notice that adjustments are needed to dial in the suspension.

My hand positions are a little angled which isn't too comfortable. Like thumbs pointing inward (towards me) a little too much. I'm not sure if this is related to saddle position or the bars themselves.

Here's the Remedy...


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Sweet! Congrats. Always takes me a few rides to get a new steed dialed in. Lots of info out there on how to set sag, rebound, compression, etc. Takes some experimentation. 
I'm nowhere near NZ but there's a guy on here who owns this shop and shared his 'One Page' setup guide which is great...
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide

Regarding levers, when you are adjusting to get angle right, also slide each one inward (toward stem) about an inch (away from grips). Adjust so when you extend index finger it's at the sweet spot toward the end of the lever. Then adjust lever 'throw' (lever distance from bar) so finger can comfortably reach it. That will also help keep shift levers clear of your thumb knuckles but close enough to easily reach with thumb. Now go get it dirty!


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

sturge said:


> Sweet! Congrats. Always takes me a few rides to get a new steed dialed in. Lots of info out there on how to set sag, rebound, compression, etc. Takes some experimentation.
> I'm nowhere near NZ but there's a guy on here who owns this shop and shared his 'One Page' setup guide which is great...
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide
> 
> Regarding levers, when you are adjusting to get angle right, also slide each one inward (toward stem) about an inch (away from grips). Adjust so when you extend index finger it's at the sweet spot toward the end of the lever. Then adjust lever 'throw' (lever distance from bar) so finger can comfortably reach it. That will also help keep shift levers clear of your thumb knuckles but close enough to easily reach with thumb. Now go get it dirty!


Awesome! Thanks for the link, and the tips! It's weird, I naturally want to put my hands closer together, like holding at the point where the shifters are...if that makes sens. I also feel like my shoulders are shrugged a little (like,douchebag tough guy on a bike look) ...can't describe it any better lol...and it feels like my hands want to angle out more to get my wrist in a natural position. Right now they feel sort of strained inward (like if I stuck my thumb out it's pointing more towards me).

As for my shocks...strangely they feel a lot less "active" than when I first jumped on the bike a few hours ago. I've tried all 3 positions in the rear "TWSS" and they all feel pretty similar.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Pennywise said:


> Awesome! Thanks for the link, and the tips! It's weird, I naturally want to put my hands closer together, like holding at the point where the shifters are...if that makes sens. I also feel like my shoulders are shrugged a little (like,douchebag tough guy on a bike look) ...can't describe it any better lol...and it feels like my hands want to angle out more to get my wrist in a natural position. Right now they feel sort of strained inward (like if I stuck my thumb out it's pointing more towards me).
> 
> As for my shocks...strangely they feel a lot less "active" than when I first jumped on the bike a few hours ago. I've tried all 3 positions in the rear "TWSS" and they all feel pretty similar.


Do you have a shock pump? The adjustments on the fork and shocks are going to make negligible difference until you get the air pressure in them right or close to right (what's right probably evolves a bit).

While Dougal's shock set up is good, it assumes that you have some idea what you're looking for from your suspension.

For newbs, start with the pressure recommended by the manufacturer for your riding weight and fine tune from there. https://suspension.trekbikes.com/us/en/ After a few months of figuring out what's what, you can start over with Dougals method.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

TwiceHorn said:


> Do you have a shock pump? The adjustments on the fork and shocks are going to make negligible difference until you get the air pressure in them right or close to right (what's right probably evolves a bit).
> 
> While Dougal's shock set up is good, it assumes that you have some idea what you're looking for from your suspension.
> 
> For newbs, start with the pressure recommended by the manufacturer for your riding weight and fine tune from there. https://suspension.trekbikes.com/us/en/ After a few months of figuring out what's what, you can start over with Dougals method.


That's great advice. I don't have a shock pump yet, the LBS tweaked them before I rode off though. I am looking for a good shock pump but still reading reviews and looking for suggestions so I end up with a good quality working pump. Honestly, I'm not sure yet what changes to make...maybe I'll learn that more as I ride after the initial trek recommended settings are dialed in.

Any suggestions on the hand placement issues? I feel like when my hands are on the grips in the proper position they feel really really wide. Aside from that they (my hands) are also angled a little bit inward which makes my wrists a little bit sore. Not sure if that can be adjusted or not...or if I just need to get used to it?


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Pennywise said:


> That's great advice. I don't have a shock pump yet, the LBS tweaked them before I rode off though. I am looking for a good shock pump but still reading reviews and looking for suggestions so I end up with a good quality working pump. Honestly, I'm not sure yet what changes to make...maybe I'll learn that more as I ride after the initial trek recommended settings are dialed in.
> 
> Any suggestions on the hand placement issues? I feel like when my hands are on the grips in the proper position they feel really really wide. Aside from that they (my hands) are also angled a little bit inward which makes my wrists a little bit sore. Not sure if that can be adjusted or not...or if I just need to get used to it?


Great to see you got the bike! I have 2 shock pumps myself. I have a Giro shock pump which I really don't like. I also bought a Specialized shock pump which I do like! I can disconnect the pump much easier and faster than my Giro. I highly recommend that you get a shock pump with a somewhat long hose. The short hoses could break from pumping air into the shock. I had a short hose pump and the hose broke after a couple of months. I haven't had one issue with my Specialized pump which has a longer hose.

There really isn't any suggestions regarding hand placement. You just need to keep fiddling with the position of your levers until you find your happy spot. It's a bit different for everyone. I can't see your shifter position too well in your photo. Perhaps you just need to slide everything inward (toward the stem) just a touch more. I like to have my shifters set for 1 finger braking which gives me more grip on the bar.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

A shock pump is pretty much a shock pump. About 30 bucks. Even its gauge accuracy isn't a big deal, because it isn't the amount of pressure in the shock, as measured, its how the shock behaves. The pressure is only a guideline.

Given your thread on the dropper, I question whether your LBS knows wtf it's doing. In any event, I would not rely on their settings for your suspension unless they set it with you sitting on the bike or they weighed you.

The air pressures in your fork and shock are the most fundamental settings of your suspension. Knob twiddling isn't going to do much or really anything until you get the pressure right-ish. And, it may be an ongoing "calibration."

Wide bars are the trend now. Personally I like them, having come from narrow ones. Part of it is to offset the now very short stems, and part of it is to give you more leverage going downhill, sort of related concepts.

You can cut them down (almost) as much as you want, which I think is the other point: you can't add it back. so they give you extra. But don't be hasty.

I think I would just ride it for a bit and see which gives first, you or the bike. Which is a jest, but because you have little experience, try riding it a while and see what you get used to and starts to feel natural versus what feels unnatural no matter what.

You can slightly change the angles (tilt upward, sweep back) of the bar ends by loosening the stem and rotating the bar in the stem. They're usually marked with some sort of scheme (degrees or something) that gives you some notion of what you are doing, but it's mostly by feel.

If your bars continue to give you problems/discomfort, you can buy different ones with different shapes and characteristics. But you've spent enough money for now, it's time to ride and start figuring out what's what.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Here's an action plan.

First, get a shock pump and get your pressures to Trek's suggestions for your weight. Without a shockpump and its gauge to get you in the ballpark, we have no idea how "off" your suspension may be, and the bike will ride all wrong if it's off by very much.

Second, get the brake levers adjusted for one-finger braking with your hands at what appears to be a comfortable place on the grips, midway is a good starting point. Get the shifter where you can reach it with your thumb and forefinger by stretching from that position. Adjust the angle of the levers around the bars so you can keep your finger on the brakes and your wrist isn't bent much in an ordinary riding position. Some people like to keep their hands almost all the way outboard to give them better sense of the location of their bar ends in tight spaces. Others don't want their knuckles exposed. YMMV.

Third, put 25-30 lbs, depending on your weight, in the tires.

Ride. The. Bike.

Figure the rest out as you go along.

Oh, heck, I forgot, adjust your seatpost so that your seat height has your leg fully extended with your heel on the pedal, and slightly bent with the ball of your foot on the pedal (at bottom travel in both cases). If the fronts of your knees hurt after pedaling for a while, raise it, if it's the backs, lower it. Like 1/4-1/2 inch. Repeat until pedaling is painless. You've got 3-4 inches of adjustment there, it seems, should be plenty.

Also, it's not gospel, but you can move your seat back and forth a little so that your knee is directly above the pedal axle when the pedal is at 90 degrees. That gets your fore and aft close. And could conceivably create more handlebar issues.

Some of this is super-rudimentary, but included because it seems your bike shop kind of set you adrift.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

TwiceHorn said:


> Here's an action plan.
> 
> First, get a shock pump and get your pressures to Trek's suggestions for your weight.
> 
> ...


This post, along with all others helping out, is really saving me from the brain twisting frustration. I honestly don't think my LBS has much experience with full suspension. Mostly they deal in road bikes with a wall full of hard tails. There was 1 FS bike in the whole store and it was a Giant Stance 2. Although the guy said he has MTB'd for 30 years...maybe on the same bike from 30 years ago who knows lol. Well I suppose first I will try and lower the seatpost.

I am going to take it step by step from the Trek recommended settings (after getting a pump) and use this post as a guide. Thank you so much for the help!

BTW....I had a blast on the Remedy today. Amazing how going from concrete to grass felt...smoother and faster than the road when pedaling on flat terrain! Crazy!


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Also, fairly obviously, don't hit any major obstacles or features while you're still figuring some of the stuff out. On the other hand, do try to get into some rougher stuff to see how things behave. What you think is ok on smooth ground might be less so in some chunk.

The fit "system" I described is known as KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) and it is the way a lot of bikes have been set up for on the road pedaling. It's not the final word, or maybe even a good word, on bike fit. But it will get you started. You can find out more about fit issues by googling KOPS.

One thing that MTBers do that deviates from KOPS and other systems, is have the seat 1/2-1" lower than called for for optimum pedaling. This allows you, by just slightly or barely standing on the pedals, to get your butt just off the seat so you aren't absorbing every little hit. This is something people without droppers often do, but you may wish to try it with your dropper, or even make it permanent, possibly. May save some wear and tear on your hindquarters as you're getting used to all this.

Also, look up "attack position." This is how you will want to ride or "attack" trail features. Sort of the generic athletic ready position. You may not strictly need it for your early riding, but it's a good habit to start forming. When you implement it yourself, be aware that initial attempts to adopt it often put too much weight on your hands and the front of the bike, which can be a recipe for endos or OTB (off or over the bike). One feature of it is to get up out of the saddle and also keep your weight back, typically by moving your butt back over or behind your saddle.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

This might be a bit off topic but are you going to install a water bottle cage? If so, make sure you get one that wraps tightly around your bottle. Years ago, I went cheap and bought some cheesey Amazon bottle holders that didn't wrap around the bottle. Yeah, I shot my bottle off the bike while on the trail. I didn't even think about the shape of the holder lol! 

Bottle cages are fairly universal between mountain bikes and road bikes. I use the Bontrager Bat Cage on my road bike and I installed a Bontrager side loader on my daughter's bike.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Battery said:


> This might be a bit off topic but are you going to install a water bottle cage? If so, make sure you get one that wraps tightly around your bottle. Years ago, I went cheap and bought some cheesey Amazon bottle holders that didn't wrap around the bottle. Yeah, I shot my bottle off the bike while on the trail. I didn't even think about the shape of the holder lol!
> 
> Bottle cages are fairly universal between mountain bikes and road bikes. I use the Bontrager Bat Cage on my road bike and I installed a Bontrager side loader on my daughter's bike.


Funny you mentioned...I just ordered a Blackburn Wayside side loading cage and a 21oz Camelbak Podium. Hoping they fit lol.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

You can also use the Strava Global Heatmap to find local single track. It's an aggregate of ALL rides and picks up a ton of data. Free. Just look for squiggly lines. Ask me if you want more info. 

I use it to find tons of new trails. Boston north shore. 



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Screamer (May 1, 2008)

Wide handlebars is the new norm.
May take a little time to get use to but they offer front end leverage 
and better control when riding your bike.
Although they do suck when riding tree lined trails...lol


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Screamer said:


> Wide handlebars is the new norm.
> May take a little time to get use to but they offer front end leverage
> and better control when riding your bike.
> Although they do suck when riding tree lined trails...lol


Yeah I think I'm going to cut em down. Everything around me is lined with trees, tight trails etc. plus I think it would be more comfortable and easier to handle quick menouvers.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Pennywise said:


> Yeah I think I'm going to cut em down. Everything around me is lined with trees, tight trails etc. plus I think it would be more comfortable and easier to handle quick menouvers.


Just get used to tossing the bike around.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

scatterbrained said:


> Just get used to tossing the bike around.


I hear ya but 820mm bars are pretty wide (I'm 5'9"). Not sure if I want to get used to that.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Haha, yeah, 820 is a wee bit on the wide side. I'm 5'7" and run 780mm.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)




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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Again, I would wait on cutting down the bars until you have some ride time. Otherwise, what you cut them down to will be based on what other people say and not an informed preference.

My bars are 780. There is a tree gate on my closest trail that's 780. There are a dozen or more on other trails that are close. For a year and a half I have been slowing through that tree gate rather than cut them down. I don't think 760 offers quite enough clearance to be some magic bullet, and I think 740 is getting toward too narrow for my preference. 

And I don't downhill at all and never will. But, I am larger than you and my ape factor is no doubt higher.


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

Pennywise said:


> I hear ya but 820mm bars are pretty wide (I'm 5'9"). Not sure if I want to get used to that.


820mm are wide I run 760mm on one bike and 750mm and they both feel good to me, but once you cut them down you can't go back. Keep that in mind as you might want to just trim a little off at a time and ride it for a while to see how they feel.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

Pennywise said:


> I hear ya but 820mm bars are pretty wide (I'm 5'9"). Not sure if I want to get used to that.


Yeah, that's way too wide. Adjust your grips inboard and see how it feels. 780mm is probably closer but still possibly too wide. 760 to 770 is probably a better starting point.

When in doubt, run narrower. Once your hands start getting spread apart too far, you lose pushing and pulling strength on the bar. A good rule of thumb is when your hands are on the bar and elbows are neutral, you'll want to have your forearm either perpendicular to the bar or slightly inboard.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Maybe a good bike-fitting and skills clinic are in order.

A basic skills clinic.


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## indianadave (Apr 27, 2010)

Haha! First time riding with wider bars on a trail I ride often, and sitting at the bottom of a long downhill, tree-lined section chatting with my buddy, I noticed my new bar bar end plugs were both gone...
I was cutting it a lot closer to the trees than I realized.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

indianadave said:


> Haha! First time riding with wider bars on a trail I ride often, and sitting at the bottom of a long downhill, tree-lined section chatting with my buddy, I noticed my new bar bar end plugs were both gone...
> I was cutting it a lot closer to the trees than I realized.


Oh damn! You must know that trail really well Hahahaha.

I'm trimming the bars down tonight...might start at 780 then get a feel for it before anymore cutting.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Pennywise said:


> Oh damn! You must know that trail really well Hahahaha.
> 
> I'm trimming the bars down tonight...might start at 780 then get a feel for it before anymore cutting.


780mm is a pretty well round number for me. Just check the index marks on the handlebar and don't cut past the point of no return!


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Battery said:


> 780mm is a pretty well round number for me. Just check the index marks on the handlebar and don't cut past the point of no return!


I cut to 780 today. The marking was slightly off so I measured it myself. It feels much better. There is a gray stripe on each side of the bars...is this a marking to show where not to go past with the controls?


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Pennywise said:


> I cut to 780 today. The marking was slightly off so I measured it myself. It feels much better. There is a gray stripe on each side of the bars...is this a marking to show where not to go past with the controls?


Most likely. Every handlebar manufacturer marks it differently.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

So how's the bike riding? Find the trails?


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

TwiceHorn said:


> So how's the bike riding? Find the trails?


The bike is amazing! I cut the bars down, adjusted the seatpost and cable, dialed in the suspension...it is exactly what I was hoping it would be. I hit some local trails and dicked around, found a BMX pump track and rocked some jumps, built a 14" x 32" x 6' kicker ramp...all good times. I look forward to hitting the blacks and double blacks next spring at the lift trails.

i would recommend the Remedy to anyone that's looking for what I described in the beginning. Checks all boxes.:thumbsup:


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Also picked up some 510 Freeriders, 510 TLD Impact Pros, BELL Super DH FastHouse, side loading bottle cage and a Camelbak Podium. The Super DH is very light and feels great! I was surprised at how light it was.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Pennywise said:


> Also picked up some 510 Freeriders, 510 TLD Impact Pros, BELL Super DH FastHouse, side loading bottle cage and a Camelbak Podium. The Super DH is very light and feels great! I was surprised at how light it was.


Yeah...you're addicted.


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

I’d shop around the used market, you might find a used Remedy for half price. 

I seem to find a lot of used Trek’s around me and if they have been listed for awhile you can get them much cheaper. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Sickmak90 said:


> I'd shop around the used market, you might find a used Remedy for half price.
> 
> I seem to find a lot of used Trek's around me and if they have been listed for awhile you can get them much cheaper.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Already bought a new one. I wouldn't want a bike that's been beat up and raped by someone else anyway...nobody likes sloppy seconds.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Battery said:


> Yeah...you're addicted.


I prefer... enthusiastic. But yes, you are correct.


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

Pennywise said:


> Already bought a new one. I wouldn't want a bike that's been beat up and raped by someone else anyway...nobody likes sloppy seconds.


I've passed on many used bike because they were thrashed but I got both of my Fuels for a steal and they were like new. I'll take those sloppy seconds to save $1500+ all day everyday.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Sickmak90 said:


> I've passed on many used bike because they were thrashed but I got both of my Fuels for a steal and they were like new. I'll take those sloppy seconds to save $1500+ all day everyday.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's always nice finding a sweet deal! I live in an area where I'd be lucky to find a used FS bike that's not from Walmart lol.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Pinkbike buy/sell. Bought my Chris King/Derby wheelset that was a year old for $700. Bought my Ribbon coil 29 for $600 was like new from a bike mechanic that rode it for 6 months.

Bought my FSA 392 Evo carbon crankset on eBay at auction for $126.
Bought my Revive dropper on eBay at auction for $175.

I'm shocked at how many people pay retail.

Hell just today I replaced my broken di2 derailuer with a new xt model for $153. Bought a xtr/dura-ace hollow pin chain for $24 those usually go for $45-50.

Got my Gore c5 power trail waterproof jacket and pants for $300 from bikediscount.de.

Once again shocked at people that walk into shops and pay marked up retail.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Once again shocked at people that walk into shops and pay marked up retail.


I'm surprised at how many people care what others pay. OP is out having fun riding a nice bike with a full warranty instead of shopping for deals and deliberating while hunkered down behind a keyboard. Each way has pros and cons.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Are you really surprised.? I personally haven't seen alot of people commenting on how much people spend. Surely not enough times to generate your response.

Reminds me of that "stupid rich" commercial where the 2 ladies are bidding against each other at an auction.

I'm still out riding and having fun just have an extra 1.5k in my pocket.


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Are you really surprised.? I personally haven't seen alot of people commenting on how much people spend. Surely not enough times to generate your response.
> 
> Reminds me of that "stupid rich" commercial where the 2 ladies are bidding against each other at an auction.
> 
> I'm still out riding and having fun just have an extra 1.5k in my pocket.


I was going to buy something brand new at my local Trek dealer but they wouldn't budge a dollar on any price. I can't justify paying LBS prices when I can try to find something used or get something off CRC.

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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Here we go..


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Here we go..


So you're saying the op is stupid because he bought a new bike? What is the point of demeaning someone over this?


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Nope. But nice try at a straw man.

It was squarely directed at you.

Have a nice day.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

i read every post in this thread with interest. a few of you have given some pretty good advice and i took the time to watch videos.

all was pretty good until #125 through #131.

oh well.

i guess we all have different demons sitting on our shoulders, whispering mean, scary **** into our ears. 

why ya'll gotta act like that?


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

shekky said:


> why ya'll gotta act like that?


Winter is coming and most of us choose to argue about cycling here when the weather isn't the greatest. It's fun! Just grab yourself some popcorn every day and just watch the fun unfold!


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Nothing wrong with buying used if it fits your personal needs. I prefer to buy new for piece of mind, knowing that my bike was not misused or abused. The warranty is a plus too.

I love the GX Eagle groupset. The shifting feels incredible. I still might trim the bars another 10mm on each side (780 now) but going to wait a bit. I might change the sweep as my wrists aren’t straight, hands cocked inward slightly too much while on the grips. That’s really the only thing I feel the need to change. I love the tubeless setup too.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Pennywise said:


> I love the GX Eagle groupset. The shifting feels incredible. I still might trim the bars another 10mm on each side (780 now) but going to wait a bit. I might change the sweep as my wrists aren't straight, hands cocked inward slightly too much while on the grips. That's really the only thing I feel the need to change. I love the tubeless setup too.


I definitely love the GX Eagle set too. I just swapped my GX Eagle for AXS X01 upgrade kit and it's pretty solid. Wireless shifting is quite unique despite the cost. I'm still using my GX Eagle cassette until it wears out and then I'll swap it for an X01 later on. Tubeless is great too!

You may want to check your sealant levels regularly. The tubeless sealant will dry up inside the tire over time. If the tires don't rotate for quite a while, all that sealant will dry up in a single spot. I didn't ride my mountain bike for a month over the summer and much of my sealant dried up. I definitely recommend picking up a bottle of sealant and an injector either from your bike shop or online.

There are a couple ways to check your sealant levels. If you have a syringe with a small tube, you can always siphon the sealant out to see how much is left. I believe Giant recommends this technique with their bikes that come tubeless from the factory. The other technique is to break the tire bead and take a peak inside and just add fluid as needed. I'm sure there are a couple other tricks but these are the two that I've used.


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

Battery said:


> I definitely love the GX Eagle set too. I just swapped my GX Eagle for AXS X01 upgrade kit and it's pretty solid. Wireless shifting is quite unique despite the cost. I'm still using my GX Eagle cassette until it wears out and then I'll swap it for an X01 later on. Tubeless is great too!
> 
> You may want to check your sealant levels regularly. The tubeless sealant will dry up inside the tire over time. If the tires don't rotate for quite a while, all that sealant will dry up in a single spot. I didn't ride my mountain bike for a month over the summer and much of my sealant dried up. I definitely recommend picking up a bottle of sealant and an injector either from your bike shop or online.
> 
> There are a couple ways to check your sealant levels. If you have a syringe with a small tube, you can always siphon the sealant out to see how much is left. I believe Giant recommends this technique with their bikes that come tubeless from the factory. The other technique is to break the tire bead and take a peak inside and just add fluid as needed. I'm sure there are a couple other tricks but these are the two that I've used.


Awesome, thanks for the tips. I hadn't even thought much of sealant maintenance so thanks for the tip!

The electronic shifters sound interesting to say the least. I never would have imagined that. Amazing where technology takes biking. Congrats on the new score!


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## Sickmak90 (May 27, 2012)

On my old Xcal I didn’t even look at the sealant for years. When I finally did change tires there wasn’t any sealant left, just crust. It still never leaked and I never had a flat (must have been lucky). 


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

$4k is a huge budget for whatever you are getting. i would suggest a Freeride bike


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## Pennywise (Sep 11, 2019)

akacoke said:


> $4k is a huge budget for whatever you are getting. i would suggest a Freeride bike


All set now...picked up the Remedy! It's badass, couldn't be happier!


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Pennywise said:


> All set now...picked up the Remedy! It's badass, couldn't be happier!


 And that's all that matters really. Everytime we get a new rider an angel gets it's wings.


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## imabeast7 (Aug 28, 2019)

Dont let anyone tell you diff. If thats what you want go for it. Im about to pickup a spot rollik 150. On sale for 3400 atm. Cant wait.


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