# Getting a novice through fear



## chucko58 (Aug 4, 2006)

My wife Ruth joined me for a mountain biking trip to Northstar. Ruth is an absolute novice at mountain biking; she's done some flat trails (as in bayside levees) but never before been on a real mountain. She's been doing some riding around town on her hybrid. We rented her an obscenely nice bike for the trip (Specialized Safire S-Works!) because it was all the bike shop had in her size. 

Stripes shepherded her around the easy trails on Friday, but she had a couple of spills and got scraped up. Nothing serious, but painful. She took it easy Saturday and tended to her scrapes.

Sunday I tried to take her on some easy singletrack trails - stuff I could do in my sleep - but she's intimidated by narrow trails and rocks. She would even steer around low, flat rocks buried in the dirt!

I'd appreciate help from you ladies who have been through this phase and gotten to the other side. What did you do to break through the fear? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

this has been covered about a million times. 

The easy way: sign her up for a skills camp, something high quality, like the Dirt Series. I am sure that Stripes can suggest some local groups. 

The hard way: loads of patience on your part, and a better understanding of what is intimidating to a beginner. Of course she is steering around rocks - it is a totally natural impulse. 

Fear is best conquered via knowledge, and unfortunately, an SO is almost never the right source for new bike skills - way too much emotion in that dynamic.

Another suggestion - hook her up with some women at her skill level or lower, so that she can go on some rides where she doesn't suck in comparison to her companions. Everyone needs an ego boost every so often. She won't learn much, but she will come back happy.


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## mtrh8 (Apr 7, 2007)

I'm just a average,older lady biker but may I offer something up?It seems like a lot of the time it gets overlooked that many woman are not just leaning to ride a mountain bike but having to learn to be a athlete period.Some of us did not have the advantage of sports as kids or time to pursue them when we were raising our kids.We not only have to train our body's but our brains too.It can be done-but it takes time,want to,and you have to stop comparing yourself to people who are just changing sports or taking up were they left off a few years ago.It does help to ride with woman,but do try and find some that are really"beginners"at her level.It can be very demoralizing to be told your riding with other beginners when really your riding with someone who may be starting mountain biking but is a fit athlete and your not.
Most important,tell her not to give up.Tahoe is a pretty big interdiction to mountain biking,the altitude alone is going to be tough! And yes,those rocks are pretty scary when you don't know what to do,what your bike can or can not do and how it all fits together.
I took up mountain biking and skiing at 40,and that was a few years ago.I had never done any sport in my life.I will never do either one to the level most of the people here do but I have a lot of fun,keep myself from getting hurt and love doing them.And believe me,if I can,anyone who wants to can.You will see wonderful things riding a mountain bike,feel better about yourself and meet some great people.Hang in there!


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

Time. Lots of it. Maybe years.

There are still some things I won't do out of fear after 8 years mountain biking that my husband finds easy. Fortunately, we both learned that any pushing from his part is extremely counter-productive, and when I improve it is due to my own desire, not his.

Good luck.

Edited to add: Lots of time *on the bike* is obviously key to improving, not just time in general.


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## chucko58 (Aug 4, 2006)

I have learned through being with Ruth for 15+ years that pushing is extremely counterproductive. As much as I'd like her to ride with me and have fun, I know that's a long ways off. I deliberately took a hands-off approach most of the weekend and let others show the way.

My approach Sunday was "let's find something you're comfortable riding". I made it clear that this was about her fun, not mine. If she didn't want to do something, we didn't do it.

IMHO she is at the point where fear alone is keeping her from improving. She recognized herself the "death grip" on the bars was hindering her, but she doesn't know how not to clench up. "Just try it once" was usually met by "No!", and I left it there.

I'll definitely ask Stripes and the rest of the local ladies for their help. I know Stripes has been through a few clinics and can give some honest appraisals from her point of view. We have a couple of real easy rides around here and I'll make time to get out there with her.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Keep in mind _you_ may not be able to "fix" her riding issues.


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## lynseyf (May 1, 2007)

This was her first time mountainbiking? It took me a lot more than 2 rides to relax on my mtb and I had been cycling on the road for a couple of years when I started. Telling someone to do something doesn't work. If it was that simple we would all be great, after a couple of months of tensing up everytime I went over a really bumpy bit of track I eventually started to relax, I knew it would be easier but my body took a long while to trust my brain 
The main things that I think help are standing up as much as possible, round all corners, on all downhills, over any rocky bits, basically any time you don't have to pedal and when you do have to pedal if you can manage that, and looking ahead. If she struggles with looking far enough ahead try to get her thinking how difficult it would be to drive a car if you stared at the front bonnet.

And a skills course


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

chuky said:


> Of course she is steering around rocks - it is a totally natural impulse.


Ha.

It is pretty funny that after a number of years of mountain biking, natural instinct begins to warp.

Brain: "Hey! Look! A big rock! Aim right at it!"

Feet: "Oh crap! We're wrecking! Left heel swing right, right heel swing left, and click, we're out of our pedals. There, that wasn't so ba...KERPLUNK. Ow."

Body: "Aaaah! We're falling! Save the bike!"


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## chucko58 (Aug 4, 2006)

formica said:


> Keep in mind *you* may not be able to "fix" her riding issues.


Believe me, I'm well aware of that!


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

chucko58 said:


> My wife Ruth joined me for a mountain biking trip to Northstar. Ruth is an absolute novice at mountain biking; she's done some flat trails (as in bayside levees) but never before been on a real mountain. She's been doing some riding around town on her hybrid.
> 
> Sunday I tried to take her on some easy singletrack trails - stuff I could do in my sleep - but she's intimidated by narrow trails and rocks. She would even steer around low, flat rocks buried in the dirt!
> 
> I'd appreciate help from you ladies who have been through this phase and gotten to the other side. What did you do to break through the fear? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


"This phase"? From the sounds of it, your wife is so new to mountain biking she hasn't had time to reach a "phase", let alone have a breakthrough! You need to slow down your expectations. Someone who has been riding around town and on flat trails isn't going to get on singletrack and be hopping rocks on the first day, no matter how good a bike you rent for her.

Time spent riding is the only remedy. As she gets more comfortable on a bike, she'll be ready to try new things. I suggest wide fire roads and smooth trails until she feels she is ready for something else. Personally, I'm impressed she got back on the bike after having several falls. She sounds like she might have some of the core toughness that is essential to mountain biking 

As for the "stuff you could do in your sleep", how long have you been riding? It took me 5 years of mountain biking to stop trying to steer around the rocks and start having fun rolling over them. Again, recognize that she IS a novice and alter your expectations accordingly.

Good luck!


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Skilled riders often make this mistake.*

They have been riding so long that they forget how much it take s to do what they do. They just blow through stuff without a thought. The ravine dropping away from them is not even seen anymore as they are looking up-trail, grooving through the curves, a quick hop over a log and smelling the roses.

Another common mistake is taking riders to places the skilled rider enjoys in hope that the student will "see the light" and become and mtb-er for life.

Another....putting a new rider on technical dirt with only bikepath experience.

Another...technical courses with a bike they have never ridden. A Dually can feel "noodly" and very weird.

All this in thew context of a sea of riders who seem to do this as a matter of course.

It just makes one feel foolish, silly, and hopelessly inept.

All of this stems from the very first example.

Do smooth, mild, even dirt on a simple, well-working mountain bike. Let her ride with people of her own skill level until she demands more.

I really admire your effort, both for your wife and for your own desire to understand how to make this effort successful.


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## msrutzie (Nov 14, 2006)

Lots of good suggestions here. What kind of mtber does your wife want to be? I ask because it's different for everyone. 

When I began riding I'd look at a technical part of singletrack and think "I want to ride down that with ease". The guy I was dating at the time would yell at me to stop and walk sections of trails. I'd yell back that I wanted him to tell me how to ride it. My mtbing and the relationship never progressed. 

On the other hand I had a total stranger take me on technical singletrack. He'd stop, explain the trail ahead and tell me how to handle it (weight back, butt off the seat, standing....). He'd ride down the section and I'd watch how he did it. It was a tremendous help to have someone share my desire to build my skills. His approach worked and the exbf's failed, because he understood his audience. I'd encourage you to ask your wife what sort of rider she would like to be and do rides based on that.

I have a gf who just got into mtbing who has no desire to ride technical singletrack. She's perfectly fine with riding trails like those at China Camp and if she never progresses beyond that it's okay with her. Nothing wrong with that. I don't force her to come on rides beyond her desire or ability. She takes her time on the trails riding at her pace and asks questions when she wants to learn something new. It's understood that the type of riding I want to do vs what she wants to do is different. When we ride together it's understood it'll be on trails that she is comfortable with. When she's ready for something more she'll ask and I'll encourage at a level that doesn't push her too hard.


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## chucko58 (Aug 4, 2006)

MtbRN said:


> "This phase"? From the sounds of it, your wife is so new to mountain biking she hasn't had time to reach a "phase", let alone have a breakthrough! You need to slow down your expectations. Someone who has been riding around town and on flat trails isn't going to get on singletrack and be hopping rocks on the first day, no matter how good a bike you rent for her.


Of course not. The ridiculously fancy bike was the shop's idea. I know very well that I can't expect Ruth to become an expert rider overnight. Or even next year. But I have to admit I'm disappointed that just riding on narrow trails with a few widely spaced rocks is outside her comfort zone right now.



> Personally, I'm impressed she got back on the bike after having several falls. She sounds like she might have some of the core toughness that is essential to mountain biking


That's my wife! :thumbsup: When she decides she's going to do something, she does it.



> As for the "stuff you could do in your sleep", how long have you been riding?


Good point. The kind of stuff she's shying away from is stuff I've been riding over since I was a kid, and that was a long time ago! Obviously she didn't share my experience of biking in vacant lots as a young boy. Or of being a young boy for that matter...

Likewise mtrh8's point about non-athletes trying to do something that requires an athletic mindset. It's only been a couple of months since Ruth started riding on the road regularly. In the past we've made a few attempts to ride together on the local levees. I'm trying to take advantage of her current enthusiasm for cycling, but at the same time I don't want to scare her off of MTBing forever.


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

chucko58 said:


> ...But I have to admit I'm disappointed that just riding on narrow trails with a few widely spaced rocks is outside her comfort zone right now.
> ...


I think this is the sentiment that came through in your original post and that several of us reacted to. We must be a bit jaded by this (very common) question.

Anyway, lots of people had good points, but I like the idea of focusing on MtbRN's remark that Ruth sounds pretty tough if she can get up and keep riding after several falls. You might want to tell her that a bunch of internet strangers are proud of her, as are you.

On the other hand, you might not want to tell her about catzilla's prediction for her future, even though most of us here probably find it both funny and true.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

I saved the bike the other day, which explains the current condition of my right cheek. 

Least favorite thing to fall on - a log with branch stubs at 5 inch intervals.


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## chucko58 (Aug 4, 2006)

alaskarider said:


> I think this is the sentiment that came through in your original post and that several of us reacted to. We must be a bit jaded by this (very common) question.


Guilty as charged. I don't expect her to bomb the gnarly stuff tomorrow (or ever), but it would be nice to ride with her on something a little more interesting than the bayside levees.

I'm doing the best I know how to remain positive, encouraging, and non-judgmental. That's why I'm here asking for help instead of imposing my style of riding on her. It's the best approximation of a Sensitive New Age Guy (tm) that I know how to do.



> Anyway, lots of people had good points, but I like the idea of focusing on MtbRN's remark that Ruth sounds pretty tough if she can get up and keep riding after several falls. You might want to tell her that a bunch of internet strangers are proud of her, as are you.


Yeah, she's a tough one alright. She cut away the main chute and pulled the reserve chute on her first skydive... :eekster: ...and went back to skydive again!



> On the other hand, you might not want to tell her about catzilla's prediction for her future, even though most of us here probably find it both funny and true.


I won't. But I think she's already getting the idea from Stripes and the local crew!


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## Sambolina (May 15, 2007)

I have been riding a mountain bike for about a year and a half. This past weekend was my first trip to Mammoth. I would have never dreamed of going there last year when I first started. Everything is baby steps and confidence is the most important. Setting yourself up with skilled riders is one step in the right direction but some riders or your riding buddies think they have perfect skills and actually they do not. Just because your are fast does not mean you are skilled. I am in complete agreement with a professional coach or skills clinic. I was very pleased with Gene Hamilton's clinic. After my skills clinic I felt much more confident and able to tackle terrrain that I would have never been able to do before. I had an awesome time in Mammoth and only did the trails that I was comfortable with. Most of the trails were challenging for me and when I thought I could handle more I moved up to the next hardest trail. I never tried to do something that was dangerous or that scared me. Now I can not wait to go back to Mammoth and try more difficult trails.


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## glorycoree (Jun 7, 2008)

I started riding with my boyfriend and felt almost immediately defeated because there was no way I was keeping up with him. I started our trips out with that mindset because of my previous experiences. I was able to get past it by getting my own bike instead of using his extra bike. I also started riding with other people and my intimidation went away almost immediatly. 

North Star is having that Women's Clinic on Aug 22-24. This would be a great oppotunity for her and they will have their Cypher available to demo. If you want more information about the clinic.. pm me and I can send it to you.


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## sheclimbs (Oct 27, 2004)

Fire roads, Fire roads, lots of fire roads. I was very fortunate in that not only was my riding partner an excellent rider, he was extremely patient. We started on fire roads and he slowly introduced me to slightly more challenging trails gradually working up to more and more technical trails. He was very good at gaging my skill level and my confidence and didn't get me in over my head (very often). Quite honestly I couldn't imagine riding Northstar as a beginner, that would have scared me too. One thing that has helped me improve is knowing that if I'm ever uncomfortable or feel like something is just too technically difficult I can always walk. Pads don't hurt either. Plastic courage. I have done my fair share of hiking over the years. It actually helped me to get familiar with the trails. Time on the bike is the best confidence builder. Hope she learns to love it as much as I do.


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## jewels (Mar 17, 2004)

+1 about the fireroads. I wouldn't completely write off the clinic at northstar even if she is very green. Although stripes knows her riding level, so only she can decide for herself. I have a friend who is very timid and she surprised herself and her progression in 1 day (fell 4 Times). She was so excited she did another clinic that same week (fell 0 times:thumbsup: ). I'm not talking jumps or anything, just learining basic riding skills. That group spent most of the day on flat ground and practicing body positioning, etc. By the end of the day, when they were warmed up and more confident, they rode a green trail and learning to control her bike/brakes. She had a blast which is the most important!


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## sheclimbs (Oct 27, 2004)

Certainly not discouraging you from the clinic, I was just referring to riding the lifts/trails on your own at NorthStar. I think the clinic is an excellent idea!


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## jewels (Mar 17, 2004)

yeah doing it on your own is more difficult and more intimidating I'd imagine. And..chucko58, maybe consider renting her a bigger travel bike next time? sometimes bigger is better. It wouldn't have to be more expensive, but maybe a little cushier?


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## chucko58 (Aug 4, 2006)

This was Ruth's first time ever on a bike with suspension. She normally rides a rigid. She was already scared by the brake dive, so I don't think more travel is the answer.

I'm with Stripes, I think more time in the saddle is mandatory. I'll just have to seek out fire roads that aren't too steep.


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## LadyDi (Apr 17, 2005)

As someone with undiagnosed vague motor, balance and perceptual issues (you can call me a "klutz", but it's probably more than that), I assure you that that small, firmly imbedded rock really does look enormous to me and my kind. I wonder if Ruth is perhaps a bit like me. If so, overcoming the fear associated with perceptual and motor deficits is difficult but not impossible as long as the desire is there. The learner will need lots of TITS on easy (e-a-s-y) dirt with one understanding person. Here's a specific tip that might help: Take Ruth on a level-to-slightly-downhill smooth trail with occasional small imbedded rocks or roots. When she freaks, have her dismount and physically walk her bike up until she taps the scary obstacle with her front tire. The rock or root will actually appear to shrink-- it's a brain thing! Next have her walk her bike OVER the obstacle so she can see that the pedals will clear it and nothing bad will happen. Lastly, ask her if she wants to try rolling over it. If she's willing, take her back a good 10 feet so she can get a little momentum. Talk her through the minutiae of bending the knees, looking ahead, blah blah blah. She may balk the first few times. If so, let her walk past that scary rock and put it behind her for another day. When she conquers her first scary rock, she'll be excited and proud. Let her go back and repeat her success 3x. Repetition is the key. The next rock will be another story, another walk-up, another hurdle. I have been mtb'ing for several years and sometimes I STILL need to dismount and do the walk-up... just to put things back in perspective. 

I can't see the problem starting out full squish, as long as the bike fits and the settings are correct for the rider. Wide grippy tires and FS are the confidence-boosters that let her know, "my bike can handle it".


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## socalbikegirl (Dec 30, 2006)

One thing that helped me when I first started riding was to ride the same, easy trail often. It allows you to become familiar with how the bike handles without worrying about "unknown obstacles" and work on increasing confidence in "what your bike can do". As I became more comfortable with the trail, I began trying this obstacle or that one or eventually became so sick of walking the same section over and over again, I just eventually threw caution to the wind and rode the damn thing. And then I would say to myself, "That was it?". :madman: 

My husband would often say to me that "The bike will ride right over it." For the longest time I doubted him (still do sometimes, especially if it involved dropping into anything taller than me), it wasn't until I was ready to ride it that I actually did.

On bike suggestion, I would try a hardtail (no rear-bob to worry about right now) with front suspension (maybe adjust stiffness for her riding style). Full suspension is great and I would never switch back but for a beginner riding fairly flat, non-techy trails, it should more than do the job and allow for growth.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*When my wife got on her dually*

she said it felt "noodley." We locked everything out and unlocked things as she felt comfortable. Generally, though, it happens when I suggest it as she is still juggling about as much information as she can handle and dealing with fatigue. New ground throws her confidence off. She just doesn't have enough experience to fall back upon. For many of us who have ridden for years we can look at a piece of ground and equate it with something else we have ridden and just go. Not the same for a new rider.


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## ursassygurl (Sep 3, 2008)

i learned to bike because of my ex-boylet..now were are on war, i dont think i will stop riding..it has been a good outlet for my stress..i am just so grateful that ass**** encouraged me! :nono:


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## amandajo88 (Sep 1, 2008)

I started out going with my boyfriend straight to the MT. I would just take her on some easy trails that have some downhill stuff, and talk her though it. Tell her to stand.... lean back ... and everything along with. The more she does, the more confident she will be and know that she can do it.. It might be slower than you but it builds up.


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## ineedtrainingwheels (Sep 2, 2008)

LadyDi said:


> As someone with undiagnosed vague motor, balance and perceptual issues (you can call me a "klutz", but it's probably more than that), I assure you that that small, firmly imbedded rock really does look enormous to me and my kind. I wonder if Ruth is perhaps a bit like me. If so, overcoming the fear associated with perceptual and motor deficits is difficult but not impossible as long as the desire is there. The learner will need lots of TITS on easy (e-a-s-y) dirt with one understanding person. Here's a specific tip that might help: Take Ruth on a level-to-slightly-downhill smooth trail with occasional small imbedded rocks or roots. When she freaks, have her dismount and physically walk her bike up until she taps the scary obstacle with her front tire. The rock or root will actually appear to shrink-- it's a brain thing! Next have her walk her bike OVER the obstacle so she can see that the pedals will clear it and nothing bad will happen. Lastly, ask her if she wants to try rolling over it. If she's willing, take her back a good 10 feet so she can get a little momentum. Talk her through the minutiae of bending the knees, looking ahead, blah blah blah. She may balk the first few times. If so, let her walk past that scary rock and put it behind her for another day. When she conquers her first scary rock, she'll be excited and proud. Let her go back and repeat her success 3x. Repetition is the key. The next rock will be another story, another walk-up, another hurdle. I have been mtb'ing for several years and sometimes I STILL need to dismount and do the walk-up... just to put things back in perspective.
> 
> I can't see the problem starting out full squish, as long as the bike fits and the settings are correct for the rider. Wide grippy tires and FS are the confidence-boosters that let her know, "my bike can handle it".


I'm new new...intimidated by the vertical to diagonal roots we have here in central NC and I think the way you have described doing a walk up is perfect. My first instinct was just to skid to a halt, dismount, get over the friggin' root whatever way I could and move along...not really *looking* at what was impeding my progress, and certainly not learning from it. I think *I* may take this approach with myself next time I ride the big scary root filled trail. I'm a person who needs to understand *how* to do something before I do it. So this may be a good way to fulfill that particular need.

OTOH, a female rider from my local mtb forum has offered to ride with me and show me a few skills. So doing both, I'm hoping, will get me through this and onto the next skills I need.

Great explanation of what you do. I'm glad you shared it.


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## LadyDi (Apr 17, 2005)

Hey thanks, Trainingwheels... and don't forget to have fun!!!


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## greenz (May 26, 2008)

Fear of what falling crashing? Oh yea !!!!!!! after a few i came to an understanding with my bike body and the ground trees roots and yes rocks .... knee and elbow pads and padded downhill shorts are all used now. and after a few falls i now know if i an not going to fast nothing will break just nice bruises .
And get some DVDs or books then she can learn what to do at her own pace and practice it when she gets on a nice flat trail lay out some rocks or 2x4 and show her how to load her shock and jump them or let her do it on her own at her own pace .
i love riding and never catch my husband on the trail but am the first to push it and try the fast downhills or what ever anyone else is doing now that i do not fear falling .


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## Consuela (Jun 13, 2008)

First of all... Way to go Ruth! What a studette and good sport for even trying NorthStar on her first real dirt ride! I'm very impressed that she stuck out the day and got back on the bike again. :thumbsup: 

Second... Two thumbs up for Stripes for helping shepherd another gal into the fun world of mtb! :thumbsup: 

Third... Good job to you for trying to be supportive and patient. There is a fine line between being encouraging and being pushy. So, I give you props for knowing that it exists and trying to watch for it.  

Are you somewhat local to Stripes? If so, a Mere Mortals Beginner ride would be awesome for her! The group is so supportive and encouraging. The social pace of the group and the no-drop policy makes riding much more fun for a newbie. As Stripes mentioned, she's been doing some "Beginner Only" skill rides lately. 

There is also a "Beginner" ride at Arastradero on Thursday evenings for the next couple weeks. (Check the calendar, as I think this ride will change as it gets dark earlier) Much of that regular group are not beginners, but are very welcoming to newbies to the sport and usually have a person sweep to make sure whoever is at the back is not riding alone or gets lost. They stop throughout the ride to regroup and let folks catch their breath.


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