# 1x drivetrain thoughts.



## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

Well, Steve my trusty loyal Karate monkey steed is still my training bike of choice, but for long rides like the TD, something lighter is needed. So I am working on a new build.

With a straight Shimano 1x11 or 2x10 build, there isn't a lot of price difference and the weight savings between the 2 is only around 150 grams. I can shed even more weight with a RaceFace crankset on both options. 

If I go with the newer SRam 1x12 setups, I can get a great range with a 10-50 cassette. I haven't run the weights on this setup yet. It would require a new hub though and not be compatible with any of my existing bikes or wheelsets.

In my TD ride this year, I really liked the 2x10 setup. I have a 24/40 up front and a 11-36 in the back. I did use 40/11 (3.636) on the Fernie alternate and in some other downhill runs and the 24/36(.667) was invaluable for grueling climbs after 8 to 9 hours in the saddle.

With a SRam 10-50 and a 34 sprocket in the front, I can get real close to the 2x configuration with 34/50(.68) for climbing and 34/10(3.4) for downhill or flats.

My only concern is the jump between sprockets with a 1x12 setup. With the 2x10 setup, I often find myself just bumping up 1 or down 1 sprocket to get to a cadence that I find comfortable for my level of weariness and the terrain that I am riding.

Does anyone else have experience with a 1x setup for bikepacking?


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## fleboz (Apr 22, 2015)

I dont have experience with bikebacking, but i have 1 x 11 on my daily rider. I love it. I climb better than i ever have, clear certain hills that have always given me trouble and enjoy the simplicity of it. That said, i'm glad i have a 2 x 10 on my bikebacking bike. I feel the range is more beneficial with the extra weight climbing and the lower gears for logging roads, etc.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I've bikepacking with a 1X for 6 months or more. I've got a couple rings and just swap depending on terrain. Locally I'm running 32tooth chainring with a 10speed 11-36 cassette. Headed to CO for a thru-ride on the CT next month with a 26 tooth chainring. After 4 years of SS I've found 10 speeds to be plenty.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

IMO, if you're worried about drivetrain weight when bikepacking, you're a bit too serious about bikepacking. I'd go 2x10, and keep the wide range of gearing you've currently got. Being able to drop down to 24/36 on the long climb when loaded down is a nice option to have.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

1x10 on my fattie, 1x11 on my plus bike - love it for both of those. 

But for my Fargo, which is my primary bikepacking bike, I really like having 2x10 for those extra climbing gears when loaded up. Even more so now that I added a 40t to the cassette.


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

I did Rooseville to Ovando and back to Swan Lake on a 36x11/36; relatively light (race) bikepacking mode. 29er hardtail, Niner fork. It wasn't too bad, but I would have wanted 32 or 34 by the end of the 3 weeks. On the other hand, I was just coming off a strong racing year and in the best shape of my life 

Now, I'm looking at the entire TD and thinking that a 28/38 and 11/36 10speed rear would be about right. Low enough for climbing and spinning; top end high enough for tail wind sections. Might consider a 26/36 front. I've been a SRAM guy for a long time, and their front ring spacing don't help me much. However, I was recently told by a friend that Shimano does 10tooth spacing up front. I haven't researched, but that sounds really good to me. 24/34; 26/36; 28/38


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

bakerjw--

You mentioned weight so I thought I'd suggest reexamining your gear (sleeping bag/tent/pad/etc..) to where weight could be saved. Might be more effective to keep the same bike and reduce the gear weight. Bike frame and drivetrain weight are tough areas to see big weight savings. 

That said, now that I have very light gear my ECR seems quite heavy. If I didn't like riding it so much I'd be hunting for something lighter. 

Just think about it, sounds like you were happy with your bike and drivetrain. No?


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Bikepacking is an example where a 2x drivetrain works well. The heavier loaded weight means extra traction and the ability to ride up steeper sections of trail compared to unloaded riding, provided your legs and lungs are up to the task.

When I originally bought my MojoSL I found it hard to maintain traction in granny gear, the torque exceeded the grip. If I could stay in middle ring however, I would often hold traction. So I got rid of the granny ring. I've been using 1x for years now for normal riding and bikepacking. Even going to an extended range 1x setup it is harder to pedal than 2x, so I do suffer more in times when I am out of shape. That's no problem for me, I don't mind some hike a bike. But I would definitely be able to pedal up more climbs with a 2x setup bikepacking. 

Each time I've converted a bike from 2x to 1x I've saved 350-400g depending on individual components. That includes shifter, FR derailler, small chainring, and cables/housing. I agree with a comment above though, this is trivial compared to all the weight you strap on the bike, and would not factor into a decision on whether to stay 2x or not. 

Personally I would go with what is the best combo of proven, cheapest, and what will be compatible with your other bikes. That sounds like 2x10 to me. Easily available and fairly cheap, compatible with your other bikes. 1x is proven but I would hesitate to put a 50T on my bike, especially for bikepacking. Eventually those dinner plates are going to start folding under load. And I've found the extended cogs never shift as well as the original cassette.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

I do like my Karate Monkey and my gear load out has been heavier than I would like. For simple 40 to 50 mile rides it will suffice. When I start hitting 100 a day is when I expect to see the benefits of a lighter bike and gear.

Great comments all around. It is appreciated.


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## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

For dirt road riding, I prefer 2x for the range at the top end while still providing low gears. 

For singletrack I prefer 1x, though on the hardtail I use for bikepacking I have a 24t ring bolted to the inner position of my M8000 1x crankset. It weighs next to nothing, and with the 11-42 cassette allows for ultra-low gearing if the need arises. (It's also useful in case you break your chain on tour and the repaired chain is shorter than the original.)

You occasionally have to deal with jokers suggesting that there are these things called front derailleurs and shifters that would allow for actual front shifting, but then you can just look confused and respond, "But it's 1x."


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I have 1 x 11 on one bike where a front derailer won't fit, and on a fat bike where I just went to tires that are big enough that a 2x wouldn't work. I really like the 1 x 11 overall especially with how it cleans up the left control area so you can't confuse the dropper post lever with anything. I also really appreciate that at the end of a long day you just go up or down on one side and don't have to think about which front ring you are on.

But for long days on dirt roads I would go with 2 x 10 if it would fit on the bike. The combination of slightly more range and closer gearing would be a plus for me with so many different grades to be going up and down. And being able to fine tune the gear you're in matters when you are dealing with wind which is definitely a big factor when you are riding on the road all day.


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## Skeeno (Jan 14, 2009)

Matterhorn said:


> I've bikepacking with a 1X for 6 months or more. I've got a couple rings and just swap depending on terrain. Locally I'm running 32tooth chainring with a 10speed 11-36 cassette. Headed to CO for a thru-ride on the CT next month with a 26 tooth chainring. After 4 years of SS I've found 10 speeds to be plenty.


Where did you find a 26t chainring? Lowest I've been able to find is 30t.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Racey Facey makes one. They even make a 24. I'm using the Aeffect crankset and direct mount rings. Not too spendy and seems to work just as well as the next crankset. (did you catch that one?)


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## Skeeno (Jan 14, 2009)

Matterhorn said:


> Racey Facey makes one. They even make a 24. I'm using the Aeffect crankset and direct mount rings. Not too spendy and seems to work just as well as the next crankset. (did you catch that one?)


I'm running a 104 bcd crank, that's probably why I didn't see those. If my 30t doesn't work out, I may have to swap cranks. Thanks for the info.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bakerjw said:


> Does anyone else have experience with a 1x setup for bikepacking?


For bikepacking I would get a splined crank so you can mount a small chainring if desired. Then grab a 1 x 10 + a 42T extender cog. You can dial in the low gear with the chainring and really who cares about top end on tour? If you are ripping downhill do you really need to go 5mph faster? I don't.

I've run 1 x 10 + 42 and XX1. The XX1 is a little nicer, but given the 1 x 10 can be had for well below 50% of the XX1 cost and spares are easy to come by I would just go that route.


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## wahday (Mar 23, 2012)

I run a 1x10 on my El Mariachi. 32t absolute black oval chain ring (can't go smaller on my spider) and sunrace 11-42 in back. It's been on one bikepacking trip so far and I had no issues. 3500 feet of climbing/day for two 35 mile days. It was great even on the steepest grades but for longer days and more climbing I could see having another bailout gear. And less jump btw cogs for long tours would be nice. I kept my small ring on so that if needed I could manually move the chain over. But haven't used it yet.

This setup works great for me and I am about to make the same conversion on my Anthem. But for extended touring you might look at 11 speed. Truly though, I can't see giving up on the 1x setup. So many new options coming soon with some monster cogs and better ratios for all manner of riding. And maybe it is my imagination but I feel the chainline is more efficient with 1x. I am really surprised that it has not hindered my climbing at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roadfix (Oct 7, 2008)

1x or 2x, as long as I can get a low of 18 and a high of 65 or so gear inches, I'm a happy camper...


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## mdilthey (Dec 15, 2014)

I couldn't decide so I went singlespeed.


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## dream4est (May 21, 2003)

I am running a 1x11. Ran a 1x9 and 1x10 in 2014 and 2015 in the Triple Crown bikepack races. I see no need to run a 2x I am honest with myself on what gear ratios I can actually ride in consistently while bikepacking. IMO most people cant even handle the range of a 2x anyway on a loaded bike. They dont have the power and/or endurance to use the gears on either end of the range. I saw this constantly in the TD and the singletrack events. I can hikeabike a certain speed and give up little to no energy and I know how to coast/aero a bike over a certain speed. In between that range is my 1x-just change the chainring for the route. 

1x12 will be on my Yeti sb6c soon, but not in time for the CTR. I am running 28 x 10/42. I can still roll it up to like 25 on pave before aero coast. I dont have the power to ride the 26t consistently over 3.3-3.5mph on steep terrain I can out hikeabike that gear given my ability. 
On the flats, I simply stood and hammered in my biggest gear for 100 yards and then coasted (on sections where I feel seated riding in my biggest gear is "maxed out"). 

Its bikepacking. Which is all about conserving energy and moving forward with the least effort. Anyone expecting to be cranking under 3.5mph or over 24mph consistently is either Mike Hall, or delusional. Its loaded riding.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

bakerjw said:


> Well, Steve my trusty loyal Karate monkey steed is still my training bike of choice, but for long rides like the TD, something lighter is needed. So I am working on a new build.


IMHO your basic premise is flawed here. The difference in weight between your KM and a chi-chi lighter frame isn't going to amount to a hill of beans when you factor in complete bike + rider + kit weight. Like maybe a fraction of a %, but probably not even that.

Not remotely suggesting you shouldn't spend your money any way you see fit. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that spending that money to save a few ounces is going to make any difference in your overall speed or time on course. Simply doesn't work that way.


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## ilanarama (May 20, 2010)

Not quite bikepacking, but we just got back from the Durango-Moab SJHS hut route with moderately loaded bikes (no seat pack but everything else, plus small backpacks) and 1x11 worked well for me. Seven days, up to 5400' climb per day. The only situation I felt hampered was long dirt-road descents where I couldn't crank as high a gear as the others (and am too light to coast as fast as the heavyweights).


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

As others have stated, the weight is negligible when adding up your total gear on a packing trip. I've run "1x whatev's" for over 8 years. Yea, my top end gearing isn't going to break the sound barrier, but I do it for simplicity and that I've never needed anything bigger than a 32x36 in non-snow riding.

32x11 = 22.2mph @ 90rpm
32x36 = 3.7mph @ 50rpm

When city planners design functional space for humans walking, they design around the concept of 1.4m/s which equals 3.1mph even though humans can walk 5.5mph. If I'm going under 4mph, it's time to walk the bike for a while.


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## cellery (Jul 24, 2015)

My thought is if I can do extended steep rocky climbs on my heavy ass fs trail bike with a 1x, then I can do it with the same simplicity and reliability on a gravel tourer that weighs the same with a light touring setup... I would probably opt for a 2x if I went full on panniers front & back.

I gotta say - just getting into the gravel/bikepacking thing and crushing extremely hard on the new Kona Sutra LTD 2017, mainly for drivetrain reasons, good spec for the price and I think a great example of where 1x is heading for bikepacking purpose built frames: KONA BIKES | ROAD | SUTRA | Sutra LTD


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

If you got a gut that is the first place I would look to shave weight.

For something like the Tour Divide I think a triple works great. That way you don't run out of gear either high or low.

On my Trek Stache which came as a one by ten with stupid 11-36 gearing in the back and a 32 in the front. I swapped out to a Sunrace 11-42 in the back and put on a double front crank in the front with 22 and a 32 tooth chainrings. I have to shift by hand but it is easy and for most bikepacking I found out I only needed to switch a few times per day. For local unloaded trail riding I keep it on the 32, but for loaded steep uphill climbs at altitude it is nice to have access to a super low granny.
As far as people saying they can walk faster than they can pedal up a hill I disagree with that. As long as it is not true hike a bike where you can't ride over it, I have passed many hike a bikers with my super low granny. If possible I would rather ride my bike than push it since it takes less energy to ride than walk.


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## BlackCanoeDog (Jul 26, 2003)

bakerjw said:


> Well, Steve my trusty loyal Karate monkey steed is still my training bike of choice, but for long rides like the TD, something lighter is needed. So I am working on a new build.
> 
> With a straight Shimano 1x11 or 2x10 build, there isn't a lot of price difference and the weight savings between the 2 is only around 150 grams. I can shed even more weight with a RaceFace crankset on both options.
> 
> ...


I have a Rocky Mountain Sherpa with 2x10 and I love the bike for off-road bikepacking. Depends on your terrain and age ( i'm pushing 65) I suppose, but adding 20 lb to a bike and wearing another 10 or so on your back and hours in the saddle doesn't make 1x very appealing to me.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Running 3x9 on my Karate Monkey right now. No reason to change it, works just fine. 64/104 crank with a 24,34,46. I like to spin. A 34-11 cassette. Spent a lot of time in the [email protected] 3.4 mph on my last mixed terrain tour in NH. Beats walking. YRMV. Really look at the gear jumps for the cassette you plan on using. Lighter build? New Frame. The fat bike has a 1x11, have not taken bikepacking yet though.


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## tatuowen (Jun 27, 2013)

I ran 1x for a long time on my mtn bikes and fat bikes, and it worked out well, but those were all more focused in their use (ie singletrack, snow, etc)... once I started bikepacking, and regularly hitting 100+mile rides over a variety of terrain and gravel grinding with a variety of loads I found 1x to be limiting. I am now 3x 9 on my Niner and totally dig it- basically I had the stuff laying around to go 3x so I used it. Wide range 2x11 would have been an option otherwise. 

My 3x consists of 24/34/44 with 11-34 9sp cassette. I do miss the 12t though as sometimes 11t is a bit much and 13t is not quite enough. The biggest advantage to 3x for me has been the 44ring and subsequent higher gearing for long stretches of road/dbl track/trails. The 24t front/34t rear combo has proven to be more than deep enough for loaded climbing on the short and steep climbs here in western PA. Obviously this is just my experience, I am 51 and a clyde, so take it for what its worth


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## comptiger5000 (Jun 11, 2007)

With 3x9, if you're not regularly using your lowest gear and hurting for it, swap to an 11-32 cassette. That'll get you a 12t gear in back as it tightens up the gear spacing just a little. 

A 2x11 covers about the same range as a 3x9 at about the same weight (for equivalent level components), although I think the 3x9 still has slightly closer gear spacing across the range, which can be nice for riding when loaded up with weight (or for those who like to sprint up to speed).


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## tatuowen (Jun 27, 2013)

comptiger5000 said:


> With 3x9, if you're not regularly using your lowest gear and hurting for it, swap to an 11-32 cassette. That'll get you a 12t gear in back as it tightens up the gear spacing just a little.
> 
> A 2x11 covers about the same range as a 3x9 at about the same weight (for equivalent level components), although I think the 3x9 still has slightly closer gear spacing across the range, which can be nice for riding when loaded up with weight (or for those who like to sprint up to speed).


When it comes time for a new cassette an 11-32 is happening, just going to use up my current one first. I agree on the 3x9 spacing being a little tighter than 2x11... Some will argue about the redundancy of duplicate ratios in a 3x setup but how the particular gear inch is reached is just as important as actual numbers. I don't mind the 3x at all, and my X0 stuff shifts so well I just can't justify ditching it for something. If I really feel the 3x is overkill, say a weekend of singletrack or whatever, then it takes little time to swap to my 1x crankset as it is nice not having that big ring hanging down while climbing over logs and rocks and groundhogs and stuff.


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