# ECDM at 24 Hours in the Old Pueblo



## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

I was there on my solo bike, but I saw a team on a maroon ECDM. They were riding in the solo class, i believe. Anyone from on here?

When I first saw them on Friday they were limping in rigged for singlespeed due to bent deraileur hanger and broken deraileur. 

I was sidelined that way a couple times. I'm hoping a replacement from deraileruhanger.com has solved the problem. Has anyone else found the Ventana hanger to be too flexi?


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## zibell (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm having the same issue with the hanger. I sure would like to know if there is a better solution.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Well I don't want to "jinx" myself, but it seems the piece from deraileurhanger.com is better. I bought 2 or 3 based on how fast the ventana items were bending, and I've only used the first one. And it's been a year or more....

(and I ought to attach a spare to the bike rather then leave it in my toolbox.)

The price was fair. Give em a try.


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## malaclemys (Oct 22, 2010)

I recently replaced the hanger on my Fandango. It uses the very same Ventana hanger. I investigated the hangers that the internet places (eg Universal, Treefort, etc) carry as well as those from derailleurhanger.com. According to my sources many replacement hangers are foreign made knock offs. Although derailleurhanger.com has a CO phone number I believe their hanger has been reverse engineered and manufactured in Israel. Ventana and MTB Tandems sell OEM hangers.

FYI-It was a bit of an experience getting the old one off the bike as there was so much paint in the screw heads. I had to drill the heads out. Not something that could have been done trailside.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

I guess I don't really care where they are made so long as they are not as soft and easilly bent as the Ventana hanger. In this case I feel OEM is sub par, and it has cost me 2 derailleurs so far, not to mention on-trail single-speed conversion and a fair bit of walking. (I guess I mentioned it.)

I did a bit of searching before I concluded that the OEM part was too flexible and there were many other on the Ventana forum also struggling with a too weak hanger (so it has to be true -- I read it on the Internet!)

Before I got the Ventana I have never bent a derailleur hanger. I've been MTBing since 1987 and riding overall since about '72. I don't think it's just coincidence that I've had 2 OEM Ventana hangers bend in such a short time -- none before and none since.

http://www.derailleurhanger.com/ventana.htm

I think the hanger at Wheels Mfg is the same part as derailleurhanger.com, based on the appearance and part number.


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## malaclemys (Oct 22, 2010)

Point taken Reamer. I guess you have to consider the subtext. I was replacing the hanger so I too had a problem w/the OEM part although mine wasn't bent. In this case there was no injury to my derailleur but the threads of the hanger were ever so slightly striped allowing the derailleur to move out of alignment. I am carrying a spare from here on out.

Correct me if I am wrong but once upon a time there were break away hangers that were supposed to give way before the derailleur itself? I think PMK mentioned using an aluminum hanger bolt for the same reason. Maybe something like http://www.srp-usa.com/product-p/36a.htm although I know he rides a SRAM setup.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

malaclemys said:


> ...
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong but once upon a time there were break away hangers that were supposed to give way before the derailleur itself? I think PMK mentioned using an aluminum hanger bolt for the same reason. Maybe something like http://www.srp-usa.com/product-p/36a.htm although I know he rides a SRAM setup.


Oh, I agree that the idea is a good one. Allow a cheap and easily replaceable part to fail before the expensive part -- or the frame gets damaged. Years back I did put a break-away bolt in my first XTR derailleur. I never did have the break away bolt break, nor did I bend the derailleur or the hanger.

I guess I think of it like an electrical fuse -- but I think Ventana's fuse is rated too low, and "trips off" too easily, causing destruction of the derailleur when it goes into the spokes.

There's no way I can say for certain that in the two incidents I had that there wouldn't have been similar or worse damage had the hanger not bent -- but it is my feeling and belief that _nothing_ would have happened had there been a stiffer hanger.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Here's pics from my first one. like, we were just riding along.....
 
Realy!


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

OMG! Seriously. That just happened out of the blue?????
Ouch.:eekster: 
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

I'd rather carry a spare than have the frame tabs bent. That's why the hanger is relatively soft.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

It was mentioned we use an aluminum pivot bolts.

XO from SRAM comes with aluminum, this is what is on our Fandango.

Our ECDM came with an X7, they use the same bolt I believe.

We carry in our water bottle of tools and spares a hanger and spare bolt kit.

Obviously the damage sustained in the photos is beyond repair by replacing a bolt and/or hanger.

FWIW, I have seen on various brands of singles, hangers not bend and do similar damage. Seen soft hangers, non replaceable, some really bad designs. Not sure there is a perfect concept for this problem except no der.

I don't know the specifics of what alloy and heat treat Ventana utilizes for these. Not saying it happened, but possibly the wrong sheet of material was machined into hangers producing a less than optimum batch. Again, I don't know so don't start this as a true and verified problem.

PK


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## zibell (Apr 13, 2007)

Wow! ECDM @ 24hrs in the Old Pueblo.....turns out to be about derailleur hangers.
Very interesting.
FWIW I know somebody that purchased a Witness and installed a Rouge rear traingle and had a hanger machined out of steel. Everything seems to be tight and stout.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

giff07 said:


> OMG! Seriously. That just happened out of the blue?????
> Ouch.:eekster:
> Ed and Pat Gifford
> the Snot Rocket tandem


We were slow-riding, 1-2 mph, waiting for Joyce's daughter to catch up, and a head-sized rock was dislodged by the back tire then rolled and gave the derailleur a shove into the spokes -- and the result is shown in the pics above.

After suffering two such failures, I bolted up the new parts and, very un-scientificaly, gave a little push inward on the rear derailleur cage. It was very easily deflected inward, and to my eye it looked like the replaceable hanger was allowing the slop. The screws and axle were all tight. With the hanger from derailleurhangers.com the whole works seems less easily deflected when given a little push.

more scientific would be to secure the bike on it's side, hang a weight from the cage and measure deflection, swap hangers and repeat.... But I'm no scientist, and that would cut into riding time.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

reamer41 said:


> We were slow-riding, 1-2 mph, waiting for Joyce's daughter to catch up, and a head-sized rock was dislodged by the back tire then rolled and gave the derailleur a shove into the spokes -- and the result is shown in the pics above.
> 
> After suffering two such failures, I bolted up the new parts and, very un-scientificaly, gave a little push inward on the rear derailleur cage. It was very easily deflected inward, and to my eye it looked like the replaceable hanger was allowing the slop. The screws and axle were all tight. With the hanger from derailleurhangers.com the whole works seems less easily deflected when given a little push.
> 
> more scientific would be to secure the bike on it's side, hang a weight from the cage and measure deflection, swap hangers and repeat.... But I'm no scientist, and that would cut into riding time.


Not to sound mean...I thought hangers were meant to fail with broken chains, sticks and minor stuff. Getting hit in the wheel with a bowling ball seems like a reasonable failure.

Ours has marks from scraping immovable things, so far we have been lucky.

Having another alloy/heat treat or different material may work on an ECDM since a rear arm could be replaced. On the Fandango it's a bit more critical since it is the actual frame.

PK


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## befoot (Mar 11, 2006)

this photo was next to a friend photo for the Old-Pueblo:
http://clutch-photo.clutchmania.com/Cycling/Old-Pueblo-2011/15926460_GuwvC#1196507366_HfeMb

we hoped to do the Old-Pueblo a couple of years back but Christi blew out her knee out the week before :[
now I broke some ribs and collapsed a lung last year and a having a hell of a time trying to recover...we were hopping to do the Whiskey here in Prescott this year 
if I can get into some kind of shape besides round...wish me luck

BTW we have had a broken hanger on the C-dale, I now carry a spare...because it could be a very long hike home :[


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