# Enduro tire setup



## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

What's your setup? I've run the High Roller II's, Hans Damps, and the conti mountain kings. Not thrilled with any but wanted to know what others are experiencing. I am running Tubeless setup and I keep puncturing the rears. But my biggest issue now,seems to be that the front tire gives up on corners. Which tire corners best? Currently liking the high roller II's somewhat.


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## mikkosan (Jun 26, 2009)

I used to come from Trail Kings then Hans Dampf and finally the HR2.

Among the 3 - the HR2 for me is my new favorite front tire. I find with the HD and TK that they have generally good grip but the HR2 really lets me lean the bike with confidence.

As for the rear, I just play around with a Nobby Nic or an Ardent


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

I have the same problem with the front washing out. Hard to feel confident throwing the bike into corners and leaning on the front wheel. I've though about using a super fast rolling small tread rear just so the rear always goes out first, drive it with the rear out style. But would rather fix it with a proper front. I've used the same as you, also minion dhf's. I'm thinking of doing a minion dhf, high roller rear next. The minion seems to have good consistent grip as you lean the bike over, I feel like you can push the dhf a little further, but when it gives out it's not quite as recoverable as the high roller. Where the high roller slides a little sooner but kind of stays in that drifty controllable zone that a lot of tires don't even have. Maybe a big sticky dhf, up front, and a harder smaller high roller 2 in the back would be good?


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks guys. Keep it coming. 
Mrsa, I'm with you. I was thinking of try the exact setup you described, DHF up front and High Roller II in the rear.


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## rodeoj (May 18, 2011)

I'm running minion dhf tubeless up front, and depending on the course, a hr2 or another minion dhf ( reversed, for super rocky courses) in the rear. I really, really love the dhf up front... its a bit heavier in its exo single ply than hans and others, but it corners like a beast and is really consistent. I have single ply minions for most stuff, and a dh walled set for Angel Fire, Key Stone, and venues that have rocks that like to destroy wheelsets.

I also just picked up a magic mary out of curiosity for the front but haven't mounted it.


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

Well in my quest for cornering traction I just purchased a set of 40mm Derby hoops. To bad they are on back order. It will be a long wait.


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## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

Figuring out what tire give you the most confidence is really important and the HR IIs are really nice. Minion DHF or DHR II will have a bit more grip in most conditions. Work on your cornering technique, too. Most of us don't use the best technique to give us the confidence regardless of the tire.


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

jselwyn said:


> . Work on your cornering technique, too. Most of us don't use the best technique to give us the confidence regardless of the tire.


That's for sure. Working on it.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

specialized butcher or minion dhf in the front and ardent rear. Rolls fast and rails corners.


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## PAmtbiker (Feb 2, 2005)

Maybe try playing with air pressures before buying new tires. I run as low as I can. Try dropping pressure by a few PSI until each ride until the tires start to feel squirmy or you start burping a lot of air. You might be able to get better traction with what you're currently running.


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

PAmtbiker said:


> Maybe try playing with air pressures before buying new tires. I run as low as I can. Try dropping pressure by a few PSI until each ride until the tires start to feel squirmy or you start burping a lot of air. You might be able to get better traction with what you're currently running.


You are right, tire pressure is very important. I have played around quite a bit with the pressures. I was down to the low 20's and was liking thoses pressure. I got accustomed to the squishy feeling and felt grip was fantastic. The only problem was I would puncture tires way too easily at these pressures. Things like a rock garden or roots became too much for the speed I was carrying. I would pinch flat the tire and I was running tubeless tires. I'm currently running about 24-26 psi and so far so good. We have a lot of rough terrain and I'm not slow. I usually try to boost these sections but if I clip the back end of the rocks at those pressures then the tire is done half the time.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

I have been running a Hans Dampf up front for the last two years. Just switched to the HR2 to try it out and love it. In the rear my current favorite is the new Rock Razor for our Socal conditions. Fantastic grip and rolls really, really fast. Just be aware that after the sipes disappear on the rear it will get slippery fast. I did like the Conti MKII in the rear as well, but had a lot of puncture issues even with the protection casing.

Regarding pressures, I run Derby rims and am at 17 PSI front and 23 PSI rear. Prior to the Derby's I was running 19 PSI front and 25 PSI rear on my Easton Haven's. My terrain is typical Socal loose over hard, but I also ride a lot of high speed rocks.


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## turfnsurf (Nov 24, 2007)

SP,
When you ran your Hans Dampf up front did you have puncture problems. Mine is less than a month old and I punctured it on one of the smoothest trails in my area. I'm preparing for my first Enduro and I'm afraid to run another HD after such a simple puncture that Stan's won't seal. Not to mention the cost of a tire lasting 4 weeks. 


Sent by iPhone via Tapatalk


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

I had the same issue with my Dampfs.


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## IstongKowldPaRin (Apr 6, 2009)

Does anyone still use nevegals here, at least as a rear tire ? Planning to match it with HR2 up front.

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## turfnsurf (Nov 24, 2007)

What widths are Minnion DHF's available for 650b? The Maxxis website doesn't list anything in 27.5, so far all I've found is a 2.3 but I was hoping for a little wider - maybe 2.4.


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

Pinched another tire today. Conti MountainKing. At least I can say that these LightBike Chinese Carbon rims are strong. Real strong. They have blow thru 3sets of tires without a single blemish other than scratches.


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## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

Might have to bite the bullet and add some more PSI. I typically run 28-32 range on the rear. Doesn't feel as good, but I don't put holes in a tire every week (which I used to do regularly). My rims are happier, too. Any time lost due to the higher pressure will be small compared to the flat that ends your race. 

Which LB rims are you using? Thinking that's what I'll do when I frag my current setup.


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

jselwyn said:


> Might have to bite the bullet and add some more PSI. I typically run 28-32 range on the rear. Doesn't feel as good, but I don't put holes in a tire every week (which I used to do regularly). My rims are happier, too. Any time lost due to the higher pressure will be small compared to the flat that ends your race.
> 
> Which LB rims are you using? Thinking that's what I'll do when I frag my current setup.


I was at 26psi so you may be correct. I'll move up to 28.

I got my LB's last year so they are the first production run as far as I can remember. They are bombproof so far. I'm gonna grab a set of DERBY 40mm tho. I'm really wanting to run lower pressures.


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## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

Last year I raced a full season of enduro on Hans Dampf up front and 2.3 spec purgatory in the back.

This year I have a 2.35 Bontrager XR4 (17psi) up front and a 2.3 spec. Ground Control grid (24PSI) out back

I weigh 145lbs, hence the low PSI


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

turfnsurf said:


> SP,
> When you ran your Hans Dampf up front did you have puncture problems. Mine is less than a month old and I punctured it on one of the smoothest trails in my area. I'm preparing for my first Enduro and I'm afraid to run another HD after such a simple puncture that Stan's won't seal. Not to mention the cost of a tire lasting 4 weeks.
> 
> Sent by iPhone via Tapatalk


I haven't punctured a HD yet knock on wood. Rear tires are a much different story.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## oakleyrossi (Apr 4, 2014)

I was using a 2.5 DHF in the front with a 2.3 Wierwolf in the rear. Was actually pretty happy with that set up but just put a WTB 2.3 Vigilante team issue in the front, which is almost as wide as the Maxxix 2.5 and I love it. Tire seems to really hook up. Only a couple of rides so far so we will see how the durability is but so far really happy with this set up


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

IstongKowldPaRin said:


> Does anyone still use nevegals here, at least as a rear tire ? Planning to match it with HR2 up front.
> 
> Sent from my MyPhone A888 Duo using Tapatalk


Nevegal is too slow for race applications. Look at something with a lot less rolling resistance in the rear. It will depend on your terrain, but the Conti MKII or some of the Schwalbe's are a good place to start.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

turfnsurf said:


> SP,
> When you ran your Hans Dampf up front did you have puncture problems. Mine is less than a month old and I punctured it on one of the smoothest trails in my area. I'm preparing for my first Enduro and I'm afraid to run another HD after such a simple puncture that Stan's won't seal. Not to mention the cost of a tire lasting 4 weeks.
> 
> Sent by iPhone via Tapatalk


Never on the front. I was piercing casings in the rear, but I don't run the HD back there because it is S L O W. I had to up my pressures in the rear to avoid this, but it took me a long time to accept. I am now running 24 PSI in the rear with a big volume Rock Razor 2.35 which uses the same casing as the HD.


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## grnbkr (Jul 7, 2006)

High roller 2 2.4 up front 18-24 psi (depending on terrain) on Enve AM 
Ikon 2.25 or 2.35 in the back 19-26 psi (depending on terrain) on Enve AM

I love schwalbe nobby nic's in the back but they don't last long. Hans Dampfs don't have the feedback that the high rollers have when blitzing into corners at mach stupid.

I have yet to ride the rock razr/magic mary combo, I have a feeling these tires are both super awesome but don't last long. (If you are racing and shooting to be competitive that shouldn't be a concern) As far as performance goes I am 90% positive these will be the best tires for all but the hardest hardpack/the deepest mud.


For longevity maxxis 60A tires cannot be beat.

M


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## IstongKowldPaRin (Apr 6, 2009)

Wow your pressures are low. 

How much do you weigh

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## sean1214 (Apr 3, 2014)

I just got specialized butchers and specialized purgatory's and will let you know how I like them once I get to ride some real stuff.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

grnbkr said:


> High roller 2 2.4 up front 18-24 psi (depending on terrain) on Enve AM
> Ikon 2.25 or 2.35 in the back 19-26 psi (depending on terrain) on Enve AM
> 
> I love schwalbe nobby nic's in the back but they don't last long. Hans Dampfs don't have the feedback that the high rollers have when blitzing into corners at mach stupid.
> ...


I have found the Pacestar Rock Razor to be very durable. Any Trailstar compound in the rear is going to get destroyed in my terrain very quickly. I completely shredded a Hans Dampf TS rear in less than 75 miles. I also did not like the HD in the rear because it hooked up too abruptly after a slide making it want to high side the bike.

As far as pressure goes, not sure who the question was directed towards, but I weight 200 lbs with gear 180 without.


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## IstongKowldPaRin (Apr 6, 2009)

Salespunk said:


> I have found the Pacestar Rock Razor to be very durable. Any Trailstar compound in the rear is going to get destroyed in my terrain very quickly. I completely shredded a Hans Dampf TS rear in less than 75 miles. I also did not like the HD in the rear because it hooked up too abruptly after a slide making it want to high side the bike.
> 
> As far as pressure goes, not sure who the question was directed towards, but I weight 200 lbs with gear 180 without.


Sorry for that, question was for you.

With 18psi, you dont experience any burping ?

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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Nope not at all and I am pretty hard on the DH stuff. 

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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

I'm gonna consider running front tires both front and rear after this rear Conti MK wears out. Probably will run DHF frt and rear.


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## grnbkr (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm about 170 lbs all geared up. I usually use tubular tire glue (for road racing tubulars) to keep the tires from burping, a trick I have been using for years.

I grew up racing super sketchy xc race bikes, and never really had the xc fitness that race results would leave you to believe, so I adopted a very smooth and quiet riding style at an early age, (when I was 15-17 years old). 

I also replace my tires very frequently, because I prefer lower tire pressures the casings get worn out extraordinarily fast so I will replace my tires when the casing is "flexed out"

Carbon rims also allow you to ride lower pressures, it takes a significant amount of force to cave in the bead hook on an ENVE rim. I would love to ride some of the hookless rims that they just came out with. I have a feeling they are cockroach strong!!


Matt


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

*Super Gravity?*

I'm kind of surprised that I haven't seen anyone mentioning the Schwalbe super gravity tires in this thread. I haven't ridden them yet, but they seem like they would be a good solution to the problem of pinch flatting while running lower pressures. They aren't light, but dragging some extra weight around seems like a better option than flatting in a race run or compromising traction and handling by running higher pressures.

I did a race in Penticton BC a week ago that was quite rocky and fast. I pumped my tires up to 30 in the front and 35 in the back to avoid flatting. I got through the weekend without getting a flat (probably just barely), but the bike definitely handled differently from the the 25-28 that I usually run. I have a new Nomad on order that I'm hoping will be here by the end of June and I'm planning on grabbing a Magic Marry, a Hans Dampf, and a Rock Razor all with the super gravity casing as my race tires. If anybody has any experience with them I would love to hear about it.

For longer races with more pedaling I've also been thinking about maybe just running a super gravity rear tire with a snakeskin tire up front for a good combination of durability and weight. I'm planning on doing the BME 5 day Crested Butte race (20 000 feet of climbing over 5 days!) at the end of the season. I'm thinking that a Snakeskin Magic Mary up front (845 grams), and a super gravity Rock Razor in the back (965 grams) might be the way to go for that.


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

For anybody that's interested there's a number of German websites that sell Schwalbe tires for about $50 Canadian each once you work out the exchange rate. The shipping is about 20 euros, but if you're getting a number of tires that still works out to be a good deal, particularly if you go in on the order with a friend and split the shipping costs. I'm all for supporting local shops, but it's pretty hard to experiment with tires or have an assortment for racing at the $100 a tire they charge here. Starbike.com, bike24.com and bike-discount.de all have pretty good prices. I think that bike24.com had the best prices and selection if I remember correctly.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

For me on the new trail bike I will be running the GEAX Gato up front (2.3" XC version) and the GEAX Goma in the rear (2.25" version). I have not received the Goma yet but have been running the Gato/Saguaro combo on my XC hardtail for a couple years and they have been great. It is amazing how much the Gato comes alive at low pressures. When i was running tubeless I would constantly run at 15-18psi and the thing just devoured the trail like no tomorrow. I have been running it tubed recently and run it around 20-23psi and it is still a great tire. The Sag I run a bit higher but again, came alive at lower pressures, both are on older Stan's Flows 29ers.

I am excited to try the Goma out and if the 2.25" is nice then I will probably upgrade the front to the 2.4" Goma and put the Gato on backup duty.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Sylvan.Being said:


> I'm kind of surprised that I haven't seen anyone mentioning the Schwalbe super gravity tires in this thread. I haven't ridden them yet, but they seem like they would be a good solution to the problem of pinch flatting while running lower pressures. They aren't light, but dragging some extra weight around seems like a better option than flatting in a race run or compromising traction and handling by running higher pressures.
> 
> I did a race in Penticton BC a week ago that was quite rocky and fast. I pumped my tires up to 30 in the front and 35 in the back to avoid flatting. I got through the weekend without getting a flat (probably just barely), but the bike definitely handled differently from the the 25-28 that I usually run. I have a new Nomad on order that I'm hoping will be here by the end of June and I'm planning on grabbing a Magic Marry, a Hans Dampf, and a Rock Razor all with the super gravity casing as my race tires. If anybody has any experience with them I would love to hear about it.
> 
> For longer races with more pedaling I've also been thinking about maybe just running a super gravity rear tire with a snakeskin tire up front for a good combination of durability and weight. I'm planning on doing the BME 5 day Crested Butte race (20 000 feet of climbing over 5 days!) at the end of the season. I'm thinking that a Snakeskin Magic Mary up front (845 grams), and a super gravity Rock Razor in the back (965 grams) might be the way to go for that.


I have a Super Gravity Rock Razor that I ran for 2 days. It is too much weight for me at the absolutely worst place and I found it painful to climb with. I would prefer to run more pressure since I am not cutting sidewalls. I do pinch flat about once every 2-3 months in the rear which is the price I pay for running such low pressures.

BTW BikeBling sells Schwalbes for $70-80 and you can search around for discount codes. They also sell Conti Black Chili tires for less than $50.


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

im trying to go over some options for my new tire setup, if anyone has some experience on these tires any input would be awesome. 
I really want a front tire that has a good amount more grip, a higher limit than the rear, and predictable. For the rear I want something that is predictable and drifty, and doesnt have that "on/off, snappy" way of letting go, I want to feel it start to go and be able to control it in that window. with a front tire that I dont have to worry about washing out.

Im looking at a DHF front, HR2 rear, i've only ever run DHF's front and rear, and demo'd a bike with HR2's front and rear. what do you think is a better front? I'd either do a DHF front, HR2 rear, or DHF/HR2 front, ardent rear.

Also looking at the Continental Baron front, with a trail king/mountain king rear.

and a schwalbe HD front, rock razor rear.

any input?


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

I like the Spec. butcher up front, purgatory rear, both 2.3, tubeless. Great grip and traction. I'm 235 lbs and using roval rims. 28-30 psi front, 30 -34 rear, depending on conditions.


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

If you want the rear to drift, it is my impression that the HR2 and the DHF are not the tire for you. The ardent might be a good rear for drifting though. I am running the DHF in frt with HR2 in the rear right now and it is stable. I will most likely switch these toe around since the HR is a 2.4 and the DHF is 2.3. 

I have used both the conti Mountain King and the Schwalbe HD and they are pretty good in the rear. They should have more drift than the HR and DHF also. 

Never tried the Butcher but a buddy rides it up frt and likes it.


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## piratewake (Jul 24, 2009)

Your all probably going to laugh..... But I was running nevgals and minions.... And I made a pretty drastic jump to honey badgers..... The roll ability of the honey badgers is leaps better then both the me gal and the minion which I expected..... I expected to have significant loss in cornering and downhill capabilities but after a few rides on some trail stuff and a day in the bike park.... I'm impressed... Can definitely see the value in racing with the more trail oriented tire...


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## mikkosan (Jun 26, 2009)

I ran a HR2 with Nobby Nics on the rear. Rolls really well, decent grip and lets you slide it out and drift when needed.

I rencently put a HR2 on the rear as well. It's grippy but lets go on the loose stuff so I'm pleased with it. Just missing the lightweight and fast rolling nature of the Nobby Nics


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

Recently built up my ride with a pair of 40mm Derby's. Was running DHF up front and HRII on the rear. 20psi (Derby says to run 10% of rider weight up front and add 2psi for the rear). I'm 172 lbs. I was running 20psi and blew my front tire. We seriously need some better tire options.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

I love my setup... 26" Minion DHF 2.5 UST (Kevlar bead) up front and High Roller 2.35 UST on the rear... Not the lightest but rolls decent


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

As a front tire what do you guys like better? DHF or HR2? Im guessing the DHF will be a little more predictable with the HR2 having a slightly higher limit?


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

mrsa101 said:


> im trying to go over some options for my new tire setup, if anyone has some experience on these tires any input would be awesome.
> I really want a front tire that has a good amount more grip, a higher limit than the rear, and predictable. For the rear I want something that is predictable and drifty, and doesnt have that "on/off, snappy" way of letting go, I want to feel it start to go and be able to control it in that window. with a front tire that I dont have to worry about washing out.
> 
> Im looking at a DHF front, HR2 rear, i've only ever run DHF's front and rear, and demo'd a bike with HR2's front and rear. what do you think is a better front? I'd either do a DHF front, HR2 rear, or DHF/HR2 front, ardent rear.
> ...


I have run the Hans Dampf/Rock Razor combo and it is great for Socal. You will have to run a little more pressure because their casings are not as heavy as the HR2, but neither is the weight. I am currently running the HR2 front and Ardent rear which is also working well for me. I was forced onto the Ardent rear which I was not a huge fan of on my 26, but it seems to be working well on the 275. Does not roll as well as the Rock Razor, but seems to be more durable. The RR does not have a ton of life in it for my type of riding due to the very small center knobs. Seems to be about a 200 mile tire for my conditions/style. I do like the HR2 over the Hans Dampf from a durability perspective. I am showing very little wear on the HR2 and the HD would have been showing some age by now.


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## Stanky (May 29, 2014)

Salespunk, how's the braking with the Rock Razers in the rear? How does it compare to the HD, or others you've tried? Thanks.


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## RideMX104 (Jun 11, 2008)

Im running the Rock Razor SG in the rear at about 27-28 psi and the WTB Vigilante Team Issue in the Front with about 26-27 psi. Its been a killer combo for the area I ride in as I have had issues with slicing tire sidewalls. The Side walls on both tires are stout and the SG sidewall is a beast! The breaking is crap on the rock razor but if your not riding real steep trails consistently the rolling resistance benefits out way the breaking issue to me. 

I will be running a Purgatory Grid or WTB Vigilante Team Issue in the rear for a race at the end of the month as I am racing it blind (I raced it last year though) but am familiar with the trails and they are steep in areas and loose so I think the extra breaking abilities will pay off there. 

I switched to these a few months ago from Maxxis HR2 and they fit me much better. HR2's were durable but it was time for a change!


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I was running the butcher/purgatory 2.3" combo on my process 111 but decided to try something with a bit more volume/speed. I'm currently running and Ikon 2.35exo in the back and an ardent 2.4 exo up front. They are both really massive, easily true 2.35's on 30mm rims. Noticable increase in height and width vs. specialized 2.3's. 

Ikon grips like velcro in the back a lot more than I expected and breaks loose very predictably. Cornering knobs are much larger than the 2.2 version. I feel like I only really miss out in braking grip vs. the purg. That and the Ikon is useless if the trail is wet. Still getting used to the ardent up front but it's not bad. Huge size pays dividends.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Well I have switched it up for this upcoming weekends race. Im running the trail king 2.4 front and 2.2 reat both tubeless UST. I will let you know how it goes.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Stanky said:


> Salespunk, how's the braking with the Rock Razers in the rear? How does it compare to the HD, or others you've tried? Thanks.


It is OK. The RR's start to lose grip after the edges go away. In addition if you don't commit to the corners and get up on the edge knobs you will not like it. I am not a fan of the HD in the rear. I found that it had a tendency to stand the bike up at the end of slide and felt like it wanted to high side. Ardents are OK, but not a ton of grip where I ride. Liked the Conti MK2 in the rear a lot, but had casing issues galore with them. I may give it another go and try some more pressure at some point.


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

Noyac said:


> Recently built up my ride with a pair of 40mm Derby's. Was running DHF up front and HRII on the rear. 20psi (Derby says to run 10% of rider weight up front and add 2psi for the rear). I'm 172 lbs. I was running 20psi and blew my front tire. We seriously need some better tire options.


Just curious as to what you mean by you blew your front tire? You burped it, ripped it off the rim, pinch flatted?


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

Sylvan.Being said:


> Just curious as to what you mean by you blew your front tire? You burped it, ripped it off the rim, pinch flatted?


Punctured it. 
Had to switch out the valve stems for some longer ones the other day and I will tell you, there ain't no way these rims are gonna burp any air or let go of the bead. It took me 10 min a wheel to break the bead lose. 
So yesterday I was riding with an additional 2psi and still put a hole in my front DHF. I did hit some nasty rock section with some speed and it is the same trail that keeps puncturing my other tires so I may need to air up for that trail only.


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I've been considering derby rims for down the road when there is some more cash in the bank. Most of what I've read on them implies that they have pretty tenacious grip on the tire. When you said you blew a tire I was wondering if you had burped it, glad to hear that's not the case! Without being too much of a thread jack, do you feel like the extra support for the tire offers more traction than a narrower rim?


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## RideMX104 (Jun 11, 2008)

Update on the Rock Razor Super Gravity – 250miles and it is beyond dead! Socal was not nice to this tire. Great Fun though!


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

My experience as well with the Rock Razor. Very fast, good grip, but there is not a lot of tread to wear out.


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## chillindrdude (Jan 21, 2004)

Salespunk said:


> I have found the Pacestar Rock Razor to be very durable. Any Trailstar compound in the rear is going to get destroyed in my terrain very quickly. I completely shredded a Hans Dampf TS rear in less than 75 miles. I also did not like the HD in the rear because it hooked up too abruptly after a slide making it want to high side the bike.
> 
> As far as pressure goes, not sure who the question was directed towards, but I weight 200 lbs with gear 180 without.


disagree. the Pacestar Rock Razor lasted 1 race, and 3 or 4 rides. side knobs are getting shredded.

and i guess i'm not an aggressive corner(er) the RR were drifting way early unless you leaned hard and fully commit.

overall, disappointed by the price/durability ratio and i guess the tread pattern does not suit my riding style.

gonna goto butchers front and rear, bontrager G4s front and rear, or a HR2/ardent combo. i typically run 25/28 psi front/rear.


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## rodeoj (May 18, 2011)

I would second what @chillindude has found on the RR in pacestar compound. Its a loose tire, unless its way over on its side. As soon as the sipes wear down, the mid starts to dirt nap on its straight line behavior, though up on edge it is solid. However, the MagicMary on the front is stellar. NO matter how stupid I try to get with front end, even intentionally, it just won't let go. The match of an MM upfront and a RR in the rear is really odd to me. The front end is literally writing checks the rear of the bike cannot cash. Its fun to get a bit loose and OOC in the rear as long as the front end is tracking mind you, but i would rather prefer both tires to be hooking up. I have been running minions front and rear, and the MM upfront definitely has more grip than a 3C minion 2.5. This being said, the minion is still really solid and I will probably wind up running MMs upfront, and worn out minions reversed in the rear for now.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

You definitely have to commit when you are running the RR in the rear. You cannot be tentative with it at all or it will let go. I had the same experience with the sipes. Once they are gone the tire is toast. My experience was about 250-300 miles which is similar to what I get with the Ardent in the rear.


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## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

On my 29er, going with Specialized Butcher front and Purgatory rear for the first 2 BME events. Had decent results on a mix of terrain so far.


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## mtbks (Jun 14, 2011)

I'm still learning when it comes to my tire setup, so forgive my ignorance... Right now I am running Kenda Excavator's front and rear. I like the traction in the rear on the climbs and the down hill but they seem to be slow. Also, the front seems to wash pretty easily when you get light in the front end. If I go into a corner hot and really push the front end, it grabs but I have to be railing for it to grab well. With that in mind, do you guys have any suggestions on a new setup? I want to try something new. My terrain tends to be loose over hard, or hard with rocks. Thanks guys!!!


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

High Roller 2 or Hans Dampf up front mbbks. Rear would be either Conti Mountain King 2, Ardent or Schwalbe Rock Razor. These combinations may change your world....


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## mtbks (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking of the High Roller 2 up front as well, but didn't know about the rear. I will give these different setups a try and see what I like. Thanks again!!!


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## shredmx (Dec 11, 2013)

Had the mavic crossmaxs with the roam and charge. The front was great the rear is horrible. Burped constantly but rolled fast. Depends on course your running. If real rocky and rough with gravity oriented runs maxxis dhf up front and hr2 in rear. I haven't found a good combo for pedally courses yet. Do they they make an ardent in 2.2 in 27.5 that is tubeless?


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## Warshade (Jun 19, 2006)

DHR2 review - worth the read, IMO!


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## RideMX104 (Jun 11, 2008)

"I will be running a Purgatory Grid or WTB Vigilante Team Issue in the rear for a race at the end of the month as I am racing it blind (I raced it last year though) but am familiar with the trails and they are steep in areas and loose so I think the extra breaking abilities will pay off there. "

So here's a report on the performance of the Specialized Purgatory Grid on the rear for the race this weekend. The performance was great matched with the Vigilante, Controlled Breaking, good cornering and decent rolling resistance. All the things I was looking for BUT…….. The tire only lasted one day of riding at home (Dry, rocky terrain of So. Cal) and 2 pre ride runs at China Peak mtn which was only moderately rocky but loose and dry. On the second run one of the side knobs pretty much ripped off and took the casing with it. The Stan's wanted to seal it but couldn't quite cut it. So back to the Maxxis HR2 on the rear and that tire although slower performed fantastic and there were no issues on race day!


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## sean1214 (Apr 3, 2014)

sean1214 said:


> I just got specialized butchers and specialized purgatory's and will let you know how I like them once I get to ride some real stuff.


Update: So far on Socal terrain this set-up has been perfect! They are very confidence inspiring and have great grip. The only concern is that the purgatory has a pretty thin sidewall so we'll see if it'll hold.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

mrsa101 said:


> I have the same problem with the front washing out. Maybe a big sticky dhf, up front, and a harder smaller high roller 2 in the back would be good?


exactly the setup I've run for a few years with great success. I've paid a very small weight penalty with the DHF but who cares when you know you can ride harder and ram into the corners with no worries. in 10 years of DH and trail riding I've never found a better front tire.


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## gontxo_nos (Jun 12, 2013)

*Enduro Tires...*

Hello, I need a new tires for *Enduro*, the *terrain is dry, compact and loose rock*. I am now using a *Continental MountainKing 2.2 ProTection BlackChilli* but I need to change.

The Enduro tires setup at the moment is:

*Schwalbe:* Front -> Magic Mary (2.35) / Rear -> Hans Dampf (2.35)
*Michelin:* Front -> Rock'R2 (2.35) / Rear -> Grip'R2 (2.35)

Is a good combo or are there better options in those marks?.

I don't need Tubeless, only need the tire be flexible and of quality.

Thanks so much .


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## RideMX104 (Jun 11, 2008)

gontxo_nos said:


> Hello, I need a new tires for *Enduro*, the *terrain is dry, compact and loose rock*. I am now using a *Continental MountainKing 2.2 ProTection BlackChilli* but I need to change.
> 
> The Enduro tires setup at the moment is:
> 
> ...


Schwalbe: Front -> Magic Mary (2.35) / Rear -> Hans Dampf (2.35)
Sounds good to me!


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## gontxo_nos (Jun 12, 2013)

RideMX104 said:


> Schwalbe: Front -> Magic Mary (2.35) / Rear -> Hans Dampf (2.35)
> Sounds good to me!


And the Michelin setup is good?.

Thank you! .


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## Starkhünd (Dec 13, 2013)

Has anyone used a DHR2 up front and a Ardent on the rear ? Curious to hear the feedback on the DHR2 on the front.


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## Starkhünd (Dec 13, 2013)

I saw a picture of Graves with a DHR2 on the front and an Icon on the rear for Colorado.


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

Starkhünd said:


> Has anyone used a DHR2 up front and a Ardent on the rear ? Curious to hear the feedback on the DHR2 on the front.


That would go against the current trend of running front specific tires both frt and back. But hey go for it.


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## reformed roadie (Mar 30, 2008)

Starkhünd said:


> Has anyone used a DHR2 up front and a Ardent on the rear ? Curious to hear the feedback on the DHR2 on the front.


A friend is on this combo and loves it.
We're in SE PA, so YMMV, but I think the fact Graves is racing something similar in the EWS says a lot. I do think the 2.35 Ikon may be a better choice out back.

Personally, I am on Hutchinson Cougar (F) and Cobra (R) combo...
The Cougar is OK, lacking in wet...might try the Squale.
The Cobra has far exceeded my expectations for a faster rolling trail tire. It is fast and grips well in a variety of conditions. 
I did an Enduro in rocky conditions on Cougars on both ends and the Hardskin sidewalls held up.
Both are sensitive to pressures...I found happiness at 23psi front / 27 psi rear (I'm 190lbs).


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Starkhünd said:


> Has anyone used a DHR2 up front and a Ardent on the rear ? Curious to hear the feedback on the DHR2 on the front.


Not quite but close... Running HR2/Ardent combo. So far I like it - but only been a week. Doing an Enduro on Saturday.


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## Monster Truck (Sep 17, 2009)

I have been running the DHF 2.3 front and Ardent 2.25 rear on 35mm chines carbon on the 27.5 Nomad. I will be running the Butcher 2.3 control and Ground Control 2.3 2BR in CB next week on the 29er. I think it will be very similar to the DHF/ Ardent. The tires are just cheaper and I have had good luck with the Specialized side walls. I like a little looser tire in the back so you can drift it without loosing too much speed. I like big, supportive side knobs on the front, but I like them to engage only when the bike is leaned way over. I think that the HRII side knobs engage too early, especially on the wide rims, and I think it is not the best rolling tire around. I do like it in the back when we get duff (super dry moon dust surface to the trails). The Hans Dampf is a super front tire, but the side knobs rip off in about 7-10 rides and it is not an inexpensive tire. I have the Conti Mountian King 2.4 front and X King 2.4 rear on the 29er now. The rear rolls great and corners much better than expected, but it is going off too fast. I would consider a new one for a race weekend though. The front is fine, it is pretty generic. I trust it, but I don't really trust it.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Noyac said:


> I was at 26psi so you may be correct. I'll move up to 28.
> 
> I got my LB's last year so they are the first production run as far as I can remember. They are bombproof so far. I'm gonna grab a set of DERBY 40mm tho. I'm really wanting to run lower pressures.


ah, sounds like you've had better luck than me. I build my LBs 2 years ago, love the weight and stiffness. Took them up to the bike park for the first time last month and cracked the rear rim. I'm out of warranty but they did offer me a small crash replacement discount. I'm probably going to go for the wider, tubeless version this time. They are great rims but I'm really nervous about riding in the big rocks with low pressure now. Got a backup set of 2010 Havocs that I'll use from now on but I'm really bummed that I have to drop down in quality during my races when I'd like to have it the most!


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

so, regarding the tire question, I entered my first enduro race and got myself into a situation while setting up my bike. My cheap carbon rims suffered a few cracks on the very trails I'll be racing. Still held air (tubeless) but I'm not keen to run the same rims there again. So, I'm going to use an old set of Havocs, set up tubeless. I currently have a Conti Baron (chili version) and two DHF single ply super tacky 2.35s at my disposal.

Kicking around a few ideas and wondered what you guys thought.

1. run DHFs front and rear (my favorite setup for years of DH) but, is the rolling resistance of the super tacky DHF in the rear no good for Enduro?
2. buy a Conti Trail King 2.2 chili compound, and run the Baron/TK combo. Is the trail king a good rear for a fairly abusive, rocky course?
3. Put either of those combos on the carbon rims, pump up the pressure and roll the dice? I mean, they are cracked anyway, should I ride it hard and hope it doesn't explode? The weight and ride difference is surprisingly noticeable between the carbon and Havoc.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

I've had my Pivot M6 for a few weeks now, and although the front DHF is wearing fine and giving amazing grip, the rear HRII (3C) is pretty thrashed after 153 miles, especially the outer knobs.

I have another HRII in the normal (dual) compound, but is it going to do the same thing when ridden hard on hardpack and rocks? I can wait until spring to use the HRII when I'll be on softer conditions, but winter riding around here is almost all hardpack/rocks. I really don't want to burn up another tire in less than 200 miles, especially when there's a Super-D race at Bootleg Canyon on Jan 17th.

Suggestions?
Is the 3CO compound just too soft and the dual compound HRII will hold up to abuse better?
Swap to a 2.3 DHR?


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

I would not run the 3C in the rear. You want a harder compound. I have been running the new Specialized Slaughter in the rear here in Socal and would highly recommend it. It looks better than any other tire I have run after about 250 miles. Solid grip too.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Perfect, thanks.


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## S Dub (Mar 30, 2007)

hitechredneck said:


> Well I have switched it up for this upcoming weekends race. Im running the trail king 2.4 front and 2.2 reat both tubeless UST. I will let you know how it goes.


How did this work?


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## kdiff (Apr 25, 2010)

Salespunk said:


> High Roller 2 or Hans Dampf up front mbbks. Rear would be either Conti Mountain King 2, Ardent or Schwalbe Rock Razor. These combinations may change your world....


 Salespunk, is this still your preferred setup? I'm slowly building up a Nomad and trying to figure out a good tire combination to try. My current setup on my TRc is either HR2's front and back or DHF with a DHR2. (I'm located in SoCal.)


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

kdiff said:


> Salespunk, is this still your preferred setup? I'm slowly building up a Nomad and trying to figure out a good tire combination to try. My current setup on my TRc is either HR2's front and back or DHF with a DHR2. (I'm located in SoCal.)


My current setup is an HR2 up front and Spec Butcher in the rear. I had durability problems with the Schwalbe tires although they hooked up really well. I am trying a Purgatory up front as well that is working since there is so much traction right now.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Salespunk said:


> My current setup is an HR2 up front and Spec Butcher in the rear. I had durability problems with the Schwalbe tires although they hooked up really well. I am trying a Purgatory up front as well that is working since there is so much traction right now.


Purgatory surprisingly works pretty well on the front. I find it works all the way up until late summer when the trails turn rock hard with kitty litter over them then it start to feel sketcky. It also has the slip before it grips feeling in most hard corners so you kinda have to have that old school highroller trust that it will grip again after it starts to slip.

Right now Im digging on the Mavic charge up front and trail king or purgatory rear. I did have a ardent on the back for a bit but found I lack proper climbing skills when I get tires and just end up spinning out in the looser stuff. 
For the winter i am on the monster trucking hans dampf front and rear since they seem to grip all over the place and do very well in the snow and hook up a very moderate lean angles that you want in slippery snowy conditions. Sadly though they wont last threw the winter. A few rides in and the side knobs are starting to undercut already from some of the drier turns that I have tried to turn like I would on the charge.

Has anyone ridden both the charge and the highroller 2 and can compare?


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

No experience with the Mavic tires due to sidewall durability issues reported. They also look pretty low volume. I am looking the predictability of the Purgatory though.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Sidewall issues? Guess Im just lucky then. Mine stood up to a few days at keystone and winterpark and local trail with zero problems. Guess I should try to read up on these reviews so I know what to look out for. Its a 2 ply sidewall so I figured I was good to go. Do you have a link so I can see what folks are talking about?


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## Waafoo (Mar 13, 2010)

hitechredneck said:


> Sidewall issues? Guess Im just lucky then. Mine stood up to a few days at keystone and winterpark and local trail with zero problems. Guess I should try to read up on these reviews so I know what to look out for. Its a 2 ply sidewall so I figured I was good to go. Do you have a link so I can see what folks are talking about?


Hey, I ran a 2.3 Highroller 2 in the rear this year and loved it! almost impossible to get it to break away from you.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Waafoo said:


> Hey, I ran a 2.3 Highroller 2 in the rear this year and loved it! almost impossible to get it to break away from you.


What were you running on the front? Was that just for the local stuff or for the BME as well? Did you think the HR2 was draggy?


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## Waafoo (Mar 13, 2010)

hitechredneck said:


> What were you running on the front? Was that just for the local stuff or for the BME as well? Did you think the HR2 was draggy?


was running a minion 2.5 up front, I ran the HR2 all over here and moab twice, great wear, great rolling resistance (less than a Minion DHR for sure), stuck so good I contemplated putting one up front.
I really think tires are a personal preference thing, people say they love ardents and I think that's the biggest POS tire they make, I love minions and they work for me everywhere but u will hear people say they suck...???


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Can you run the high rollers 2 2.4 as a tubeless?


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## Waafoo (Mar 13, 2010)

rave81 said:


> Can you run the high rollers 2 2.4 as a tubeless?


I run everything tubeless, just a matter of Stan's:thumbsup:


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Waafoo said:


> I run everything tubeless, just a matter of Stan's:thumbsup:


High rollers 2.4 is not a specific tubeless according Maxxis website. Do you have any problems the tyres comes off?


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## Waafoo (Mar 13, 2010)

rave81 said:


> High rollers 2.4 is not a specific tubeless according Maxxis website. Do you have any problems the tyres comes off?[/QUOT
> 
> :skep:???


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Is the hr2 2.40 version is the same width of Hans dampf 2.35. 

The 2.25 version of maxxis are narrower than schawble 2.25 version.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm currently running hd and rock razor for 3 months. I love these tires but it wears too fast. 

What do you think a combo of hr2 2.40 and ikon 2.35 on the rear?


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

rave81 said:


> I'm currently running hd and rock razor for 3 months. I love these tires but it wears too fast.
> 
> What do you think a combo of hr2 2.40 and ikon 2.35 on the rear?


you might miss the side knob feeling on the rear with the ikon. i guess it depends on if you are a drift the rear tire around kind of person where you can almost see your rear tire out of the corner of your eye, or if you are a back must track with the front kind of person.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

hitechredneck said:


> you might miss the side knob feeling on the rear with the ikon. i guess it depends on if you are a drift the rear tire around kind of person where you can almost see your rear tire out of the corner of your eye, or if you are a back must track with the front kind of person.


I got rid off my rock razor on the rear, even though I lowered the psi it has less traction and braking ability. I currently put on the Hans Dampf on the rear and my spare HR2 27.5x2.30 in front. big improvement also I find it faster.

the only problem with maxxis tyres are the weight. It adds rotational force.

what do you think about the specializeds 650b tyres: Purgatory, ground control and butcher. their weight is more than 200g less than ardent, hr2 or minion tyres.


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## Peter Lucas (Jan 22, 2015)

Magic Mary front with either Hans Dampf or Rock Razor rear. Snake Skin or Super Gravity, depending on conditions. I have just started playing with the new Nobby Nic as well.


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

Salespunk said:


> I would not run the 3C in the rear. You want a harder compound. I have been running the new Specialized Slaughter in the rear here in Socal and would highly recommend it. It looks better than any other tire I have run after about 250 miles. Solid grip too.


what tire combo do you use? i have 2014 Nobbie nics and the rear is complete trash at 300 miles. Fronts are mediocre but i would rather change both fully. I know you ride in San Diego, I mostly ride Daley, Hodges, PQ. I hit a lot of rocks fairly fast if that matters. I love the Nobbie Nics but i can't have a tire that wears out that fast.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

mrmattjohnson said:


> what tire combo do you use? i have 2014 Nobbie nics and the rear is complete trash at 300 miles. Fronts are mediocre but i would rather change both fully. I know you ride in San Diego, I mostly ride Daley, Hodges, PQ. I hit a lot of rocks fairly fast if that matters. I love the Nobbie Nics but i can't have a tire that wears out that fast.


Right now I have a Purgatory front and Slaughter rear. I typically go fast rear and grip front. Soon I will probably go back to an HR2 on the front and keep the Slaughter rear.


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

Salespunk said:


> Right now I have a Purgatory front and Slaughter rear. I typically go fast rear and grip front. Soon I will probably go back to an HR2 on the front and keep the Slaughter rear.


Sweet, i will probably go that route... For the HR2 would you recocommend the 3C MaxxTerra or the MaxxPro 60a? Thanks!


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

mrmattjohnson said:


> Sweet, i will probably go that route... For the HR2 would you recocommend the 3C MaxxTerra or the MaxxPro 60a? Thanks!


I run the 3C


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

thankyou Sir!


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

3c front


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Got a set of mavics enduro race tires. I have run the charge on the front before but not both tires front and rear. So far they are fast rolling and massive grip when used together. Still damp and tacky here so have not had any issues with the rear drifting. The front sticks! Wet rocks, roots, tacky, dry. It is a tire you know you can trust and just stand on the side knobs.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

At the moment I trying hr2 2.40 in front while ikon 2.4 on rear. The 2.4 version is thinner than schawble 2.35 and heavier than Hans dampf/rock razor combo.

im still waiting for the purgatory and slaughter that I ordered cheaper than maxxis tires.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

How was the rock razor on the rear with the Hans up front?


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## spjones123 (Nov 15, 2014)

Not that I should EVER try and copy a pro but I was surprised to see Jared Graves was running an Ikon in back

17 Race Bikes - RockShox Enduro Challenge - Pinkbike


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

hitechredneck said:


> How was the rock razor on the rear with the Hans up front?


In my experience rock razor lacks traction and braking ability, while Hans dampf doesn't corner as good as high rollers.

My combo right now tubeless 650b hr2 2.4 and ikon 2.4. Great, the ikon had tone of traction and corner very good while the hr2 just point it and you won't get wrong with it.


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## spjones123 (Nov 15, 2014)

What's in between the Ardent and High Roller II? Minion DHR II?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

spjones123 said:


> What's in between the Ardent and High Roller II? Minion DHR II?


There is nothing between the Ardent and HR2.

There is however the Ardent Race, currently available in few sizes, between the Ardent and Ikon. I bought one and have about 30 miles on it as a rear tire with a Michelin Wild Grip'R2 Adv front tire. It's a great combo. The AR has so much traction and speed that I'm curious to try one on the front after my Michelin dies.


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## Mangchi BB (Jan 7, 2015)

I have tried all three. I currently have a Hans Dampf Super gravity in a 2.3 up front and a 2.2 HR2 in the back. This has been the best set up that I have found for the loose California trails. Having the wider profile up front and stickier compound really grabs on to the corners and I have confidence in leaning the bike way sideways into turns with out slippage.

check em out I got em here I always like to share my deals.

27.5x2.3 High Roller II 3C | Maxxis Mountain Bike Tires

Schwalbe Hans Dampf Super Gravity 27.5 x 2.35 Folding Tire | Schwalbe


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Are people using 2-3 setups to handle all conditions?

1. Mostly hardpack / XC tires

2. All-mountain / tubeless DH

3. (optional) Mud


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

I use only one setup for every condition. Too lazy to change tires all the time.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Salespunk said:


> I use only one setup for every condition. Too lazy to change tires all the time.


Ha! Your just like me. I change tires when they need replaced, not because of trail conditions. That said I have an extra front wheel with a swamp thing for muddy conditions. Easier than changing a tire. My friend has three wheel sets with three different tires. 
So has anyone tried the new maxxis shorty? Looks like a good tire for muddy/loose conditions.


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## DrPete (Jul 20, 2004)

I've been happy with the HD Super Gravity front and rear. I've got a Rock Razor that I'll throw on the rear in the spring--though out here in the PNW the trails have been ready for the switch for a while now! Enve M70s do give me the luxury of being able to run a heavy casing, but at 240# fully loaded I can run 25psi with no problems.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

I need to replace my front tires it looses grip on loose gravel, because of this I end up having fracture in my hand 50m from the finish line of stage 4.

Is the specialized butcher has similar profile of dhf? How good is the dhf for front tire?


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Since I'm more or less in permanent dry hardpack to loose-over-hardpack conditions with sprinkles of wet dirt/clay thrown in, I can run fairly low profile stuff quite happily. 29" wheels with 2.35/2.4 tires I think I'd have as much grip as I'm going to get just with rubber width, so I went for rolling resistance and tire weight as the next thing. Being a fat arse to a degree also influenced that (235lb ungeared means I'm running 35psi rear and 31psi front and still introducing the rims to the terrain on occasion. 

Ardent 2.4 EXO up front. (805g nominally, 60TPI casing)
Ikon 2.35 3C/EXO/TR on the rear (740g, 120TPI casing)
Up front, the Ardent being single compound, a bit soft works great - out back triple compound makes it roll super fast, still good grip once I get some lean angle on. The slightly more supply front works really quite well for me, the thicker sidewall in back I'm quite partial to now, since I tend to have cactus involvement fairly frequently. I still wind up two-wheel drifting somewhat frequently on my favorite descent in a couple of spots, but when I'm not riding beyond my limits this setup really works well for being a trail-all mountain sort of enduro kit.

I run these on my Instinct950 that run Inferno 25's tubeless. Theoretically not a tubeless ready rim, but only time I've had an issue was after gashing a tire bad enough it couldn't hold air without some sealant time working anyway.


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## material guy (Mar 14, 2011)

I have been trying out the WTB tires with good results so far.
Vigalanti team issue up front and the breakout light fast in the rear. Both in the 2.3" sizes.
No flats with these tires so far but I seen to run more air pressure than some in this forum. 23psi in front and 28psi rear on 23mm internal rim width.


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## kdiff (Apr 25, 2010)

What's your weight and the terrain like? Thanks! :thumbsup:



material guy said:


> I have been trying out the WTB tires with good results so far.
> Vigalanti team issue up front and the breakout light fast in the rear. Both in the 2.3" sizes.
> No flats with these tires so far but I seen to run more air pressure than some in this forum. 23psi in front and 28psi rear on 23mm internal rim width.


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## material guy (Mar 14, 2011)

kdiff said:


> What's your weight and the terrain like? Thanks! :thumbsup:


I weigh 190 geared up and live around Vancouver BC. Rocks & roots.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

I just ordered up a rock razor rear and magic mary front. Going to try that out or hans rear magic mary front if I don't get along with the RR.


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## Starkhünd (Dec 13, 2013)

I live in Kelowna BC and I do most of my ridding in the Okanagan and the Kootenay. The terrain ranges from rocky semi desert, loose over hard, rocky rooty and hero dirt. I just purchased a Minion DHF, H R 2, Magic M sg, HD sg and a Rock R sg. Figured I put them all to the test this coming year. 

Bike: 2015 Bronson
Wheels: LB 35mm tubeless 

I do have to mention that I Just got back my shock from Ava. 
The first combo I started with was the Mionion on the front and the HR2 on the rear. The bike begged to be smashed into corners and it held a line extremely well when tipped over, it tracked exactly where I pointed it. It's ability to hold speed through the chunky loose twisty desents gave me nothing but confidence. Breaking down steep gnar was awesome. I'm going to run this set up for a bit, then put the Rock R on the rear and run it with the minion then switch to the MM. All I can say if you are looking for an aggressive set up that delivers confiden that would work all over BC, this should be at the top of the list


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Clementz is sponsored by Michelin, so it looks like last weekend at Rotorua he ran a Wild Mud front with Wild Grip'R rear and it appeared to me that the rear tire was in the fast/front orientation. I have personally used a Wild Grip'R only on the front, with a variety of rear tires. I do think that braking traction would suck with the tire reversed.

Looks like Clementz was using the reinforced casing with sticky magi-x tire compound... Makes sense for damp & loamy conditions.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

So, I'm thinking about giving the DHF/DHR a go. Currently running the factory setup on my 27.5 Ardent 2.4/Ikon 2.3 and although they have been as good as my HD/NN set up on my 29er, the rear doesn't "plant" like I'd like. My biggest concern is rolling resistance. I'd consider the Ardent/Ikon to have acceptable RR.

*Those that have run the DHF/DHR setup have you found the rolling resistance to be noticeably higher?*


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## gontxo_nos (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm waiting my new tires:

- *Magic Mary* _(TrailStar)_ - Front 
- *Rock Razor* _(PaceStar)_ - Rear

How about this combo? .


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Simplemind said:


> So, I'm thinking about giving the DHF/DHR a go. Currently running the factory setup on my 27.5 Ardent 2.4/Ikon 2.3 and although they have been as good as my HD/NN set up on my 29er, the rear doesn't "plant" like I'd like. My biggest concern is rolling resistance. I'd consider the Ardent/Ikon to have acceptable RR. Those that have run the DHF/DHR setup have you found the rolling resistance to be noticeably higher?


I'm curious about how DHRs wear after seeing 3C HRII's start falling apart after 150 miles.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

I use the dual compound dhr2 exo tr and it isn't chunking or losing knobs. Not sure if the 3C max terra wears a lot worse on rocky terrain, because early this season I've only been on hardpack, loose over hard and damp soil. 

It is very fast for an aggressive rear tire.

I don't have a DHF up front; I'm using a WTB vigilante.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

ColinL said:


> I use the dual compound dhr2 exo tr and it isn't chunking or losing knobs. Not sure if the 3C max terra wears a lot worse on rocky terrain, because early this season I've only been on hardpack, loose over hard and damp soil.
> 
> It is very fast for an aggressive rear tire.
> 
> I don't have a DHF up front; I'm using a WTB vigilante.


3C is the only option for the DHRII in the 27.5 2.3 size.

Dual compound is fine, but the side knobs started tearing off my 3C HRII, which put me off the idea of soft compound rear tires for long term use.

If you can, and/or want to, afford to destroy a tire after a handful of rides, the 3C HRII is awesome.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

I'm running a dual compound DHRII 2.3 rear on my bike (29"), found the rolling resistance to be noticeably less than the HRII it replaced. That's a shame about 3C only in 27.5", getting the dual compound for the rear should definitely help out with durability. I'm actually running a 3C HRII 2.3 front currently, liking this combo thus far


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

It's been quite dry this spring so I've gone back to my hardpack setup. --I'm sure that means rain is coming. 

I don't have baller wheels on either set, but I do like having decent wheels and 2 sets of tires. With reasonably true rotors, I was able to set my calipers to clear both sets. Changing out complete wheel & tire sets in well under 5 minutes is really great.

Current loose / rocky setup:
Spank Oozy Evo26 wheels
Magura Storm rotors 180/160
Front- WTB Vigilante 26x2.3 fast/light
Rear- Maxxis DHR2 26x2.3 EXO TR (dual-compound)

As I said before in this thread, the DHR2 is the fastest-rolling and overall best aggressive rear tire I've ever had. The Vigilante corners and brakes extremely well, but the TCS light casing is not going to survive. It's more volume than the DHR2 but I won't buy another fast/light in any WTB tire because the casing is so thin and fragile. I've got a latex ball on the outside of the sidewall right now where Slime Pro saved the day. Considering another DHR2 up front.

Current hardpack setup:
Mavic Crossmax ST wheels
Magura Storm SL rotors 180/160
Front- Michelin Wild Grip'r Advanced 26.x2.25
Rear- Maxxis Ardent Race 26x2.2 3C EXO TR

This is the setup I was running full-time before getting a second set of wheels, tires, rotors and cassette. Consequently, it's more aggressive for intermediate trail use but it wasn't fast enough on pure hardpack and it was marginal on loose rocky stuff. My next step will be to move the Ardent Race to the front and run an Ikon rear.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

ColinL said:


> As I said before in this thread, the DHR2 is the fastest-rolling and overall best aggressive rear tire I've ever had.
> 
> My next step will be to move the Ardent Race to the front and run an Ikon rear.


Thanks for the posting, I'm going to try the DHR2 on the rear, replacing the Ikon for my local chunk.

The Ikon is good overall, just doesn't have the braking on loose that I desire. It's a bit more durable than the S-Works Fasttrak which I was running, but the Fasttrak has more bite, in part because of it's thin, soft rubber covering. If you're looking for a XC race tire, I'd highly recommend the Fasttrak.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Simplemind said:


> So, I'm thinking about giving the DHF/DHR a go. Currently running the factory setup on my 27.5 Ardent 2.4/Ikon 2.3 and although they have been as good as my HD/NN set up on my 29er, the rear doesn't "plant" like I'd like. My biggest concern is rolling resistance. I'd consider the Ardent/Ikon to have acceptable RR.
> 
> *Those that have run the DHF/DHR setup have you found the rolling resistance to be noticeably higher?*


Anything is going to stick better than the Ikon in the rear. I tried one for a few rides and did not like it at all and had very little confidence in how it was going to react in a corner. If you are looking for low rolling resistance check out the Specialized Slaughter on the rear. I have not had experience with the DHR2 yet so can't comment there.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

gontxo_nos said:


> I'm waiting my new tires:
> 
> - *Magic Mary* _(TrailStar)_ - Front
> - *Rock Razor* _(PaceStar)_ - Rear
> ...


Great combo, but wear on the RR sucks. I was swapping mine out after 150 miles on a regular basis. The MM will show knob undercutting very quickly, but it never really affected traction in my opinion.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Anyone have any experience with Ikon 2.35 rear, Ardent 2.4 front? May try this out in a few weeks for less aggressive riding


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

rpearce1475 said:


> Anyone have any experience with Ikon 2.35 rear, Ardent 2.4 front? May try this out in a few weeks for less aggressive riding


It's a great fast-rolling setup for dry hardpack conditions, it's still pretty usable in loose-over hard just from the carcass width, in light mud the taller tread up front actually does okay until it packs up with real mud. It's surprisingly useful over snowpack in 29er guise. The braking and lateral peak loads on the back are a bit low for super aggressive stuff, it'll break away at speed sideways, and the knobs don't penetrate super-deep under braking through the kitty litter over concrete flavor of loose over hard.

I love that exact setup out here because it's really fast, steers predictably, and can withstand the rigors of cacti and sharp rocks out here, which can really only be said for heavier tires.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Simplemind said:


> The Ikon is good overall, just doesn't have the braking on loose that I desire. It's a bit more durable than the S-Works Fasttrak which I was running, but the Fasttrak has more bite, in part because of it's thin, soft rubber covering. If you're looking for a XC race tire, I'd highly recommend the Fasttrak.


My wife has a Fast Trak as her rear tire- I prefer tires with more shoulder knob. I used to run a Michelin Wild Race'R which cornered great and rolled extremely well, but it had very poor braking and climbing traction with any kind of loose cover.

I am a little concerned that a 2.35 Ikon on the rear might hook up better in some terrain than the 2.2 Ardent Race I will use up front. I usually have a more grippy tire up front, but I have ridden a matched pair.

A Specialized Slaughter isn't an option for me, unfortunately, since it's not available in 26". I'm not buying a Rock Razor, either, BTDT on Schwalbe tire durability.


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## xy9ine (Feb 2, 2005)

gontxo_nos said:


> I'm waiting my new tires:
> 
> - *Magic Mary* _(TrailStar)_ - Front
> - *Rock Razor* _(PaceStar)_ - Rear
> ...


i raced this setup last year. worked great for the conditions up here (southwest bc). as mentioned, the rr will wear quickly, and once you lose the sharp edges on the short knobs, traction diminishes pretty significantly -though the cornering blocks still hook up. i don't mind a drifty rear tire though, as long as you've got substantial side blocks to rely on. the low rolling resistance is great for conserving energy on long liaisons. the MM is grip monster though - which is essential, as the rear contributes less straight line braking support on steep & loose surfaces. the mm side blocks crack early, though they did survive the season. would still like to see better durability at this price point.

i'm currently on a specialized butcher / slaughter combo, which is similar in character (the butcher slightly less aggressive than the mm, but rolls a bit better). nice tires (with the burly grid casing), that set up easily tubeless. cheaper than schwalbe as well. will see how they hold up.

also have a mavic roam / charge set i'm going to try out. curious which of the 3 are best. i'm a fan of the aggressive front / short knob rear combo regardless.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

> It's a great fast-rolling setup for dry hardpack conditions, it's still pretty usable in loose-over hard just from the carcass width, in light mud the taller tread up front actually does okay until it packs up with real mud. It's surprisingly useful over snowpack in 29er guise. The braking and lateral peak loads on the back are a bit low for super aggressive stuff, it'll break away at speed sideways, and the knobs don't penetrate super-deep under braking through the kitty litter over concrete flavor of loose over hard.


Thanks for the advice. Sounds like it will work well for me for general summer riding, but I may be better off with my DHRII rear, HR2 front (or maybe get a DHF front?) for actual races


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Definitely get a DHF for the front.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Geax/Vittoria Goma riders - what's the real-world size of the 2.4? Or I guess, if you're riding the 2.25, I'd be curious about that as well. Please include your rim inner width!


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

DHF 2.5 front/HR II 2.3 rear... The front is the older school Maxxis sizing so they are both very similar size despite the labeling difference


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## xeren (Aug 1, 2014)

Its sounds like tons of people are happy with maxxis dhf, dhr2 and hr2 tires - what, in your opinion, is the best combo of those 3 tires for extremely loose conditions (scree) that you'll find in washed out areas in Socal?


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## Starkhünd (Dec 13, 2013)

xeren said:


> Its sounds like tons of people are happy with maxxis dhf, dhr2 and hr2 tires - what, in your opinion, is the best combo of those 3 tires for extremely loose conditions (scree) that you'll find in washed out areas in Socal?


I'm running the DHF and the HR2 set up on extremely dry and loose rock and the combo has been deadly. Majority of the racers up at whistler during last years EWS were running them and the conditions couldn't of been hotter, dry and loose. I am about to do the DHF front and Hans D rear next week. A friend did the set up and he said it was the best combo.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Rode my DHF (1200g supertacky DH version) with a HR2 rear (EXO TR dual) for a trail ride today. Amazing grip. Dirt was very tacky in spots and dry in others. I've got a DHF EXO TR in order so should be a bit better for trail (less rotating mass @ 850-900g). I'll keep the DH version DHF for gravity days. The HR2 rear felt like it rolled well and great climbing traction.

Very big fan of Maxxis tires and this combo is near perfection.


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## xeren (Aug 1, 2014)

thanks guys! I'm going to give the DHF/HR2 combo a try.

i've seen some manufacturers like Pivot and and another I can't think of right now sell their AM/enduro bikes with HR2's front and rear- what makes the DHF a better front tire in your opinion?


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

How do you find the dhf 2.5 version in climbing?


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

And how do you find the HR2 in climbing? I feel a bit sluggish while going uphill.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Starkhünd said:


> I'm running the DHF and the HR2 set up on extremely dry and loose rock and the combo has been deadly. Majority of the racers up at whistler during last years EWS were running them and the conditions couldn't of been hotter, dry and loose. I am about to do the DHF front and Hans D rear next week. A friend did the set up and he said it was the best combo.


I would recommend HR2 front and Spec Slaughter rear for a race setup. It is going to be much faster than Running a DHR or HR2 in the rear.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

rave81 said:


> How do you find the dhf 2.5 version in climbing?





H00rst said:


> And how do you find the HR2 in climbing? I feel a bit sluggish while going uphill.


Hard to say how the DHF 2.5 affects climbing, but mine is a 1200g DH UST tire, so it's not exactly light. I didn't think it was that bad (while running a HR2 2.3 out back).

But today I ran a dual HR2 combo, both 2.3, but 3C maxx grip compound front (rear is dual compound). VERY impressed with this combo. It will be my trial riding combo for sur moving forward. Climbed very very well. I will keep the DHF 2.5 for gravity days at the bike park, combining it was a new DHR 2 (EXO TR, not DH casing) rear I just picked up. Haven't ridden that combo yet.

Honestly, I wasn't expecting the HR2/HR2 combo to work as well as it did. But it surprised me. Grip was awesome. Very predictable. No funky transition when leaning over in turns. The 3C seems to grip well up front and the dual rolls well for the back. I'm now a fan of this combo. I can see why many run it, including some top pros.


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## Ryltar (Aug 31, 2014)

> I love schwalbe nobby nic's in the back but they don't last long. Hans Dampfs don't have the feedback that the high rollers have when blitzing into corners at mach stupid.
> 
> I have yet to ride the rock razr/magic mary combo, I have a feeling these tires are both super awesome but don't last long. (If you are racing and shooting to be competitive that shouldn't be a concern) As far as performance goes I am 90% positive these will be the best tires for all but the hardest hardpack/the deepest mud.


Yeah MM in front woudl be the best choice.Rided MM/NN on my local trails and they are doing good on mud/wet roots (sometimes NN sliped but i can't blame it).It's not the fastest rolling combo but get's sh!t done when it needs to.It's a shame that they tend to wear out when you ride on some rocks.


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## Beerhunter (Apr 30, 2004)

Ive just ordered a set of light bicycle wheels (24mm ID) as a second wheelset, which will allow me to have two very different tyre sets. Like others here I am just too lazy to continually change tyres and am over the compromises in running only one set.

Sooo, my "burly" set will be either a Mavic Charge / HRII 2.4 / Wild Rock'R2 on the front, with a Trail Boss 2.25 (tough/ fast rolling) on the back. Any feedback on riding experiences for the front options would be most welcome. I am very familiar with the HRII and like it a lot, but am itching to try something else, perhaps the Michelin. 

The trail boss is a good rear: a fast roller but with reasonable braking and very predictable drift in the corners. At the back I have also had a Hans Dampf (a very good performer but destroyed in 10 or so rides) , HRII (corners and brakes well but slow) and the Spesh Slaughter (good carcass, fast and corners well, but little braking). I'll still use the spesh for races.

The "XC" version (for long fire trail / chilled xc spins) will be all out fast : an Ardent race out front and Rapid Rob at the back. Any comments on those?


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

Beerhunter said:


> The "XC" version (for long fire trail / chilled xc spins) will be all out fast : an Ardent race out front and Rapid Rob at the back. Any comments on those?


I've got a friend who loves an Ardent Race up front with the same sized Ikon out back. Very grippy and fast for dryer hardpack courses.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

I like the Ardent Race as a front tire-- better braking than an Ikon. Similar shoulder knobs as the Ikon 2.35, which are bigger than on the narrower Ikons. Pretty fast.

I'd love a 2.4" version. Hello, Maxxis? :thumbsup:


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

ColinL said:


> I like the Ardent Race as a front tire-- better braking than an Ikon. Similar shoulder knobs as the Ikon 2.35, which are bigger than on the narrower Ikons. Pretty fast.












This looks to be a pretty rad tire, not quite a 2.4" Ardent Race but looks like it should grip better than the AR.


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## Beerhunter (Apr 30, 2004)

Thanks guys. The cross mark 2 does look interesting. I never warmed to the original cross mark as it was just too skatey and inferior IMO to the racing Ralph. The crossmark 2 has a more logical tread pattern and should both roll very quickly and give fair cornering and braking.

In reality i am a tyre tart. I like to try them all😉


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Nobby Nic 2.35 TrailStar Front
Racing Ralph 2.35 PaceStar Rear

Ultimate cornering grip is just shy of a HRII 3C on the front, but it's quite a bit lighter, rolls slightly better, and has a more natural progression rolling onto the side knobs.
Racing Ralph on the rear is awesome in the 2.35 width. I have yet to bottom out a rim on this setup.

On smoother courses, where I'm not as worried about bottoming out the rim and puncturing, I'll run the 2.25" versions. The difference in tire height between the is substantial. The 2.25" rolls faster and feels a bit more nimble, with little given up in cornering grip, but I seem to bottom the rim and puncture often.


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## DrPete (Jul 20, 2004)

Has anyone heard when the rumored 27.5 x 2.5 version of the Minion DHF and DHR2 3C EXO will be out? I tried this combo in the 2.35 but true to the reviews they do run a little smaller than the same-sized Schwalbes and I like the extra volume. My race on the North Shore is in the books so I was thinking it was time to drop the Schwalbe Super Gravitys for something a little lighter... Been very pleased with the MM VertStar front/HD TrailStar rear combo but they sure are heavy, and probably overkill for the rest of the races on my schedule.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

DrPete said:


> Has anyone heard when the rumored 27.5 x 2.5 version of the Minion DHF and DHR2 3C EXO will be out? I tried this combo in the 2.35 but true to the reviews they do run a little smaller than the same-sized Schwalbes and I like the extra volume. My race on the North Shore is in the books so I was thinking it was time to drop the Schwalbe Super Gravitys for something a little lighter... Been very pleased with the MM VertStar front/HD TrailStar rear combo but they sure are heavy, and probably overkill for the rest of the races on my schedule.


I've used the dhf 650b x 2.5 it's a good front tire for downhill not for uphill because it's too heavy. The weight of dhf 650b x 2.5 is 1.4kg compared to hr2 650b x 2.4 is 880g.

Between the two I'd prefer to use hr2 650b x 2.4 coz its ligther, good traction and very good in cornering. I run my rear tire as ikon 2.35 or sometimes ardent 2.4,

Why not use the evolution version of MM is ligther?

MM and nic nobby evolution is a nice combo. I'm waiting it to arrive and swap tires.


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## DrPete (Jul 20, 2004)

There was a rumor that the 650b x 2.5 would be available in the EXO casing to get the weight down--that's the one I'm looking for.

I just got the HR2 2.4s and will probably mount them up next. I think they'll be a good choice. As for the snakeskins, they seem to be a litte flimsier than EXO so I avoid them. At 230-235lb there's a limit to how light I want to go, especially with tires.


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## mikkosan (Jun 26, 2009)

Any thoughts on the WTB Breakout?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

mikkosan said:


> Any thoughts on the WTB Breakout?


Based on my experience with the Vigilante, my first thought would be that the TCS Light casing is not adequate for all-mountain or gravity riding.


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## material guy (Mar 14, 2011)

mikkosan said:


> Any thoughts on the WTB Breakout?


I run the Breakout in the rear on my sight in the light/fast version and have no issues.
27-28psi and ride quite agressivley in the Vancouver/Squamish area, no flats as of yet but have just jinxed my self for saying that. I am anel about my air pressure and chek it each and every ride.
Vigilante on the front in the Team issue with 23-24psi for reference.


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## mikkosan (Jun 26, 2009)

Thanks for the inputs. We're SOL here in our part of the globe as the Vigilante is out of stock everywhere. 

Currently put the breakout in front and trail boss rear. Can't wait to swap it out as soon as the vigilante becomes available


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

I guess it depends on how rocky your trails are, and if any of the rocks are sharp-edged. We have those, and I've got scuffs on my Maxxis EXO and Geax/Vittoria TNT casings, but no cuts or punctures.

Meanwhile, my TCS Light Vigilante had 3 pinholes when new, which sealed quickly, and then got 2 more holes riding rocky terrain. One of them made a pretty big sealant booger on the sidewall and I didn't trust it for further use.


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## material guy (Mar 14, 2011)

I do not run tubless, still old school and use tubes.


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## mikkosan (Jun 26, 2009)

ColinL said:


> I guess it depends on how rocky your trails are, and if any of the rocks are sharp-edged. We have those, and I've got scuffs on my Maxxis EXO and Geax/Vittoria TNT casings, but no cuts or punctures.
> 
> Meanwhile, my TCS Light Vigilante had 3 pinholes when new, which sealed quickly, and then got 2 more holes riding rocky terrain. One of them made a pretty big sealant booger on the sidewall and I didn't trust it for further use.


Not a lot of sharp rocks in our area but usually loose sabd and scattered loose rocks. Took a ride yesterday and felt like I was riding on ball bearings on the Breakouts. I'm not sure if I got so used to HR2s or the tires are just overwhelmed easily.


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## toothlessrancidbear (Apr 11, 2005)

Running a Rock Razor Supergravity rear and Michelin Wild Rock'r 2 front for summer conditions and am most impressed! The Michelin is really astounding because of how quickly it rolls while offering amazing dry weather traction. The side knobs really allow you to lean the bike over when cornering and the curved "claws" in the center offer great braking bite. Anyone have any rolling resistance comparisons among the DHR II, Magic Mary, and Wild Grip'r 2? Sure would be nice to have that 2.5 DHR II sometime soon but Maxxis product development cycles usually seem to be about 7 years long so not holding out hope...


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## flyboyfish (May 27, 2013)

Hey guys I've got a Nomad with 2.35 HR2 3C, front and back. Live and ride around Calgary most of the time, with random visits into BC for bike park and random trail adventures. Haven't done any racing before but I'd really like to get into Enduro and maybe even DH.

I've had the HR2s on my last two bikes as it seems like a great all-rounder tire, but I'm kind of itching to try something new lately.  These tires are still pretty new so I'd like to make use of them if I can. I was thinking something along the lines of...

Shuttle/bike park: get a 2.5 DHF DH 3C for front, keep that HR2 3C rear

Faster trails: keep the HR2 3C front, get maybe a 2.25 Ardent Exo

What do you guys think? Should I go for the single or dual ply Ardent (which seems to be a popular fast rear), or a different rear altogether? Conditions around Calgary vary a fair bit, everything from hardpack to rocky to loam. My skill level isn't all that high  so I'd like something with reliable/consistent grip, I suppose? I would say I am usually a "front and rear on the rail" kind of rider, though I am aware I need to get more comfy kicking that rear out! 

Thanks a lot for the input


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

I'd consider getting a dual compound DHRII for the rear to go with the 3C HR2 front. Not much slower rolling than the Ardent in my experience, but loads more grip and better braking. Also, Ardents tend to be garbage in the wet


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

rpearce1475 said:


> I'd consider getting a dual compound DHRII for the rear to go with the 3C HR2 front. Not much slower rolling than the Ardent in my experience, but loads more grip and better braking. Also, Ardents tend to be garbage in the wet


Great tire! Also, running the 2.3 DHF on the front. Probably is a bit slower, but very confidence inspiring, and since not racing it, really doesn't matter if I lose a few seconds.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

The DHF is actually a little bit lighter than the HR2, so I would think the rolling resistance difference would be at least slightly negated


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## flyboyfish (May 27, 2013)

Cool, thanks for the input guys. At what point would you suggest going from a "trail" casing DHF, to the full DH casing? 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## mikkosan (Jun 26, 2009)

Used to roll on HR2s front and rear.

Now moved on to WTB Trail Boss on the rear with a 3C DHF in the front. Pretty good combo. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Whip Chop! (Apr 27, 2007)

toothlessrancidbear said:


> Running a Rock Razor Supergravity rear and Michelin Wild Rock'r 2 front for summer conditions and am most impressed! The Michelin is really astounding because of how quickly it rolls while offering amazing dry weather traction. The side knobs really allow you to lean the bike over when cornering and the curved "claws" in the center offer great braking bite. Anyone have any rolling resistance comparisons among the DHR II, Magic Mary, and Wild Grip'r 2? Sure would be nice to have that 2.5 DHR II sometime soon but Maxxis product development cycles usually seem to be about 7 years long so not holding out hope...


Interested in how the rockr'2 compares to the magic Mary. I'm narrowing those two down to my new front tire coming from a 2.3 exo DHF. Any thoughts?


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

flyboyfish said:


> Cool, thanks for the input guys. At what point would you suggest going from a "trail" casing DHF, to the full DH casing?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


If you're doing lift assist. Honestly, even with the trail casing the EXO is so tough I've never torn a sidewall, and the rather substantial weight penalty with the DH casing isn't worth the extra protection unless you aren't having to climb


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

rpearce1475 said:


> If you're doing lift assist. Honestly, even with the trail casing the EXO is so tough I've never torn a sidewall, and the rather substantial weight penalty with the DH casing isn't worth the extra protection unless you aren't having to climb


Do you think a dhf/dhf 650bx2.3 is a good combo. What is the rolling resistance of dhf as a rear tire?

I'm currently using dhr2/ikon. Ikon is fast but doesn't corner very well as hr2.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

rave81 said:


> Do you think a dhf/dhf 650bx2.3 is a good combo. What is the rolling resistance of dhf as a rear tire?
> 
> I'm currently using dhr2/ikon. Ikon is fast but doesn't corner very well as hr2.


Not my business, but why wouldn't you use the DHR? It's designed to be a rear tire unlike the DHF. Sure you could get good results with that combo, but why would you give up the braking efficiency, etc of the DHR?


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## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Weirdly enough, I have had really poor performance from a single DHR2, exo casing on my 650b bike in the rear. Within 100 miles of fairly aggressive riding (not really any more aggressive than the Ardent before it though), i had 4 separate punctures running a tubeless setup. I went back to a tube for a while before swapping out to a Conti- MKII 2.4, which has been great so far.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Simplemind said:


> Not my business, but why wouldn't you use the DHR? It's designed to be a rear tire unlike the DHF. Sure you could get good results with that combo, but why would you give up the braking efficiency, etc of the DHR?


I used dhr2 as a rear tires. I find it too slow to climb.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Anyone running 2-ply DH casing tires as their enduro setup? Trade off would be weight vs durability.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

rave81 said:


> I used dhr2 as a rear tires. I find it too slow to climb.


Well, the DHF is slower still. So, cross it off your list.

The tomahawk might be an option for you.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

ColinL said:


> Well, the DHF is slower still. So, cross it off your list.
> 
> The tomahawk might be an option for you.


Alot of people said that dhf on the rear is faster than dhr2.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

rave81 said:


> Alot of people said that dhf on the rear is faster than dhr2.


 I have heard the opposite and by looking at both tires the center knobs on the DHR2 looks to offer better rolling resistance. I have a ST DHR2 as a front with a HR2 rear. At first I wasn't sure about the DHR as a front but it has proven its worth over and over again. Once the HR2 is toast I will have an all DHR2 setup just to try it out then go back to a DHF/DHR combo to compare. I really like it he DHR2 but I still think the DHF offers more grip as a front tire.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

rave81 said:


> Alot of people said that dhf on the rear is faster than dhr2.


who? there is no way this is true. the DHF grips better in loam and light mud than a DHR2, but it's not faster rolling. ever.



Swissam said:


> I have heard the opposite and by looking at both tires the center knobs on the DHR2 looks to offer better rolling resistance. I have a ST DHR2 as a front with a HR2 rear. At first I wasn't sure about the DHR as a front but it has proven its worth over and over again. Once the HR2 is toast I will have an all DHR2 setup just to try it out then go back to a DHF/DHR combo to compare. *I really like it he DHR2 but I still think the DHF offers more grip as a front tire.*


they have the same shoulder knobs, but the DHF's split center knobs have better cornering transition than the DHR2. the DHR2 is more like the HR2, where you have to lean the bike aggressively and trust that it will hook up, and you will have relatively poor grip when at low lean angles.


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

ColinL said:


> who? there is no way this is true. the DHF grips better in loam and light mud than a DHR2, but it's not faster rolling. ever.
> 
> they have the same shoulder knobs, but the DHF's split center knobs have better cornering transition than the DHR2. the DHR2 is more like the HR2, where you have to lean the bike aggressively and trust that it will hook up, and you will have relatively poor grip when at low lean angles.


I'm curious why you guys think there would be a substantial difference in the rolling resistance between a DHF and DHR2 (assuming the same size, casing and durometer, obviously)? they both have blocky center knobs about the same height, ramped, spaced approximately the same. In my experience, if you want faster rolling you should be looking at treads with smaller/shorter, more closely spaced knobs. neither of these tires is designed with rolling speed as a priority; arguing which is faster seems to me like splitting hairs. (I haven't run the DHR2 so speculating based on experience with DHFs, HRs, Butchers and other similar aggressive treads).


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Not true. The DHF's center knobs aren't ramped as much as the DHR2, and there is a pair of center knobs that are split and cupped (not just siped) which give the DHF a nice cornering transition but I think they also increase rolling resistance.

The DHR2's lack of those kind of knobs is why it is drifty, in my opinion, but *I haven't done any testing under lab conditions.*

...I bet bholwell has, however.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

LCW said:


> Anyone running 2-ply DH casing tires as their enduro setup? Trade off would be weight vs durability.


I have not found the need for it. I do run Specialized Grid casing in the rear and EXO in the front at about 1000 grams per tire plus Procore in the rear for an additional 200 grams. Big weight penalty, but I also don't worry too much about punctures or rim protection.

Running a straight 1200 gram dual casing rear tire would not afford the same level of rim/pinch flat protection as the current combo. I am going to try and go down to a Control casing in the rear later this week.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

How is the Procore system so far?


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

hardboiled said:


> I'm curious why you guys think there would be a substantial difference in the rolling resistance between a DHF and DHR2 (assuming the same size, casing and durometer, obviously)? they both have blocky center knobs about the same height, ramped, spaced approximately the same. In my experience, if you want faster rolling you should be looking at treads with smaller/shorter, more closely spaced knobs. neither of these tires is designed with rolling speed as a priority; arguing which is faster seems to me like splitting hairs. (I haven't run the DHR2 so speculating based on experience with DHFs, HRs, Butchers and other similar aggressive treads).


I don't think they are the same durometer though, and you only have one choice with 650b. The DHR is harder, and has taller center knobs. The DHF might be faster rolling on the rear, at the expense of accelerated side knob wear.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

richde said:


> I don't think they are the same durometer though, and you only have one choice with 650b. The DHR is harder, and has taller center knobs. The DHF might be faster rolling on the rear, at the expense of accelerated side knob wear.


source?

(note: edits below - don't post at 4AM, kids)

I believe that all maxxis tires of a given compound are the same. "3C" is confusing, in my opinion, because it has three varieties - Maxx Speed for XC tires, Maxx Terra for Trail/AM, and Maxx Grip for FR/DH. They're all triple compound but 3 different durometer combinations.

The most confusing is that the DHF & DHR EXO TR models are Maxx Terra, and the DH wire bead & 2-ply models are Maxx Grip. But they also have a lot of dual-compound tires, and the Super Tacky 42A single compound.

Anyway, my point is really that I am confident a dual-compound DHF is the same as a dual-compound DHR2, and a 3C Maxx Terra DHF is the same as a 3C Maxx Terra DHR2, and so on.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Dream setup for me would be exo 42a (super tacky) front with 60a rear but noooooooo. We either have to go 2ply or not at all for ST or deal with 3C and no one I know likes 3c. Still can't find a DHR2 in 60a exo. (27.5)


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

ColinL said:


> source?
> 
> (note: edits below - don't post at 4AM, kids)
> 
> ...


It would only make sense, since rear tires see more force exerted on them, plus I've run both as front tires and the DHR lasted longer. The biggest difference in wear was on the side knobs.

Referring to 3C 650b tires, which is the only option available for that size.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Swissam said:


> Dream setup for me would be exo 42a (super tacky) front with 60a rear but noooooooo. We either have to go 2ply or not at all for ST or deal with 3C and no one I know likes 3c. Still can't find a DHR2 in 60a exo. (27.5)


Just curious how you could like ST and 60A but not 3C...


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

LCW said:


> How is the Procore system so far?


It is awesome, but you have to be prepared for the weight penalty.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

LCW said:


> Just curious how you could like ST and 60A but not 3C...


For me the 3c doesn't grip as good as a ST and wears faster than a 60a. So for me worst of both worlds. i place grip over rolling resistance and I just never felt confident with a 3C front. Swap the same exact tire but with ST and I have hero confidence.


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## Whip Chop! (Apr 27, 2007)

mikkosan said:


> Used to roll on HR2s front and rear.
> 
> Now moved on to WTB Trail Boss on the rear with a 3C DHF in the front. Pretty good combo.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What size/casing are you running on the Trail Boss? Just mounted a TB Tough/FR 2.25 on my Flows in the rear and a DHF 3C exo up front. I have a Magic Mary coming for the front and am excited for that combo. The 2.25 TB is as wide as the 2.3 DHR 2 it replaced. Hoping it'll roll a bit fast but still have braking and cornering traction but with a tad more durable casing and compound. My 3C DHR 2 was wearing sealant and wore fairly quickly.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

hands up with Dhf/DHF 650b x 2.3 combo. I changed my tires to that combo. holy crap it has tones of grip very good in cornering and it rolls faster than hr2 and dhr2. also it climbs better than ikon 2.35.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

rave81 said:


> hands up with Dhf/DHF 650b x 2.3 combo. I changed my tires to that combo. holy crap it has tones of grip very good in cornering and it rolls faster than hr2 and dhr2. also it climbs better than ikon 2.35.


I kept telling you guys this combo is the shizz! The pro enduro guys know what works, so I just follow their lead.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

You all may have already noticed this, but for anyone finding that EXO isn't tough enough, it appears that we'll soon have Minions with the Double Down casing. It is 2-ply with a tubeless ready bead.

Richie Rude used them last weekend.

The Tomahawk is already available with either EXO or DD casing.


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## alewi11 (May 20, 2010)

Any idea if that's going to be available in 29?


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## mikkosan (Jun 26, 2009)

Whip Chop! said:


> What size/casing are you running on the Trail Boss? Just mounted a TB Tough/FR 2.25 on my Flows in the rear and a DHF 3C exo up front. I have a Magic Mary coming for the front and am excited for that combo. The 2.25 TB is as wide as the 2.3 DHR 2 it replaced. Hoping it'll roll a bit fast but still have braking and cornering traction but with a tad more durable casing and compound. My 3C DHR 2 was wearing sealant and wore fairly quickly.


I have a 2.25 TB rear on a Fast/Light casing. I would have put the tough casing but it's not available in pur country.

Coming from a HR 2 on the rear the TB really feels fast, the treads are holding up quite well too. The only thing miss from the HR2 is the braking performance on loose steep hills. But other than that, I'm really pleased with the TB.


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## alewi11 (May 20, 2010)

Whip Chop! said:


> What size/casing are you running on the Trail Boss? Just mounted a TB Tough/FR 2.25 on my Flows in the rear and a DHF 3C exo up front. I have a Magic Mary coming for the front and am excited for that combo. The 2.25 TB is as wide as the 2.3 DHR 2 it replaced. Hoping it'll roll a bit fast but still have braking and cornering traction but with a tad more durable casing and compound. My 3C DHR 2 was wearing sealant and wore fairly quickly.


In my experience the Trail Boss wore much quicker than the DHR2. I liked the TB, but it wore very quick and the casing wasn't nearly as durable as the 1100 gram weight would suggest. I'm also surprised you say it measures the same as the DHR2. I never measured, but the DHR2 certainly looked bigger.


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## spitfiredd78 (Aug 18, 2015)

I've been running the new maxxis tomahawk as my rear tire. Combo is hr2/hawk, so far so good.


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## Whip Chop! (Apr 27, 2007)

Been running a WTB Trail Boss 2.25 (just as wide as the Maxxis DhR 2 2.35 it replaced) Tough/Fast Rolling in the rear for a grippy but pretty quick rolling setup with a thicker casing and a Schwalbe Magic Mary SuperGravity 2.35 Trailstar in the front. So far so good! Tons of grip and nice thick casingsfoe protection. Time will tell if the Magic Mary holds up but 6 rides and it looks brand new.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

DHF 2.5 SuperTacky/DHF 2.3 TR DC


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

i'm looking to change my tire setup, currently running nobby nic 2.25 front and rear, thinking about either going with a hans dampf front, and keeping the nobby nic rear, or going with a rock razor. 

I mostly want a predictable front that i can count on to grip up when i really lean the bike over, and not break loose too fast. with the nic i feel like im just hoping it'll be there for me. I like the rear to be predictable, but ultimate grip isnt as important, I'm ok with the rear sliding around some so long as the fronts glued. 

I've ran a HR2 front, ardent rear combo, which i liked. trail king 2.4 f/r which i didnt, broke loose too quick. DHF f/r, liked the front, didnt like it as a rear tire. really want to try out schwalbe because i havent before. 

Any advice? these will be in 29"


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

mikkosan said:


> Used to roll on HR2s front and rear.
> 
> Now moved on to WTB Trail Boss on the rear with a 3C DHF in the front. Pretty good combo.


Do you use light or endure casing on the trail boss?


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## mikkosan (Jun 26, 2009)

TheNormsk said:


> Do you use light or endure casing on the trail boss?


I went with the light casing since the Enduro casing isn't available in our country. So far so good but I can't lower the psi as much since the sidewall flexes a lot anything lower than 24 PSI (and I'm just 165 kitted up)


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

mrsa101 said:


> i'm looking to change my tire setup, currently running nobby nic 2.25 front and rear, thinking about either going with a hans dampf front, and keeping the nobby nic rear, or going with a rock razor.
> 
> I mostly want a predictable front that i can count on to grip up when i really lean the bike over, and not break loose too fast. with the nic i feel like im just hoping it'll be there for me. I like the rear to be predictable, but ultimate grip isnt as important, I'm ok with the rear sliding around some so long as the fronts glued.
> 
> ...


DHF Front, DHR Rear (Dual compound if you want better rolling, the 3C MaxxTerra is stickier but brakes brilliantly) is worth a look.
For general use quick-rolling trail stuff, HansDampf in front of NobbyNic ('15 and later for the latter) should be impressive - I just balk at the pricing for the Trailstar/Pacestar snakeskin combo of those anywhere I can pick them up - I'd be able to run 2.4 Gomas and 2.2 Saguaros for 3x as long for the same price.


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## mrwulf (Mar 22, 2005)

mrsa101 said:


> i'm looking to change my tire setup, currently running nobby nic 2.25 front and rear, thinking about either going with a hans dampf front, and keeping the nobby nic rear, or going with a rock razor.
> 
> I mostly want a predictable front that i can count on to grip up when i really lean the bike over, and not break loose too fast. with the nic i feel like im just hoping it'll be there for me. I like the rear to be predictable, but ultimate grip isnt as important, I'm ok with the rear sliding around some so long as the fronts glued.
> 
> ...


I also had 2.25 Nobby Nics (2015), in this size there are only available in Pacestar Compound which rolls crazy fast, has quite a fair grip as long the trails are not wet or loamy.

Now I switched front tire to an Nobby Nic 2.35 Trailstar an it is lots grippier than the Pacestar. The 2.35 NoNi is really big and the knobs are higher compared to the 2.25. Now the front tire steers well above wet stones and stumps which has been an hassle with the Pacestar compound.

Will wear down my 2.25 NoNi Pacestar in the rear an the try out an Rock Razor 2.35 Pacestar. I really like low roll resistance in the rear and a Rock Razor should be fine.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Will definitely give my first Enduro a go in 2016 ^^ 
Up front it will be the advertised as F.R, Conti TK BC Protection 2.4... out back my 60A EXO HRII 2.3.

-----------------------------------------------------------
-=snifff!!=- What's that you say?


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Still running the DHF 3C front. Love this tire. Don't know if I'll ever switch to another one my all mtn bike. Rear now is DHRII DC, good compound for winter with amazing braking, though I plan on replacing it with a Minion SS when spring rolls around


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

rpearce1475 said:


> Still running the DHF 3C front. Love this tire. Don't know if I'll ever switch to another one my all mtn bike. Rear now is DHRII DC, good compound for winter with amazing braking, though I plan on replacing it with a Minion SS when spring rolls around


This was my plan as well. The only difference is that I am running the 3C in both the DHF and the DHR. I have a Minion SS sitting on the self and noticed that the shoulder knobs are more spaced out on the SS then the DHF/DHR. I have not mounted or ridden it yet, just wondering why maxxis would do this.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Tried a 3C DHRII rear, found it to be supper draggy on climbs. Switched it to the front of my HT.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

It's the wet season so pretty much everything rolls slow right now so I am not to much worried about the draggy feeling. I will say the 3c dhr2 rolls better then the 3c highroller 2 that I had on before. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

rpearce1475 said:


> Tried a 3C DHRII rear, found it to be supper draggy on climbs. Switched it to the front of my HT.


Context would be helpful. It is 'draggy' (meaning slow-rolling I assume) in comparison to what? Which tires have you used before, and what are you using now, that you find faster / better / whatever?


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Both the DHR2 and Purgatory Grid work well for me out back, with the DHR2 a step up from the Purg, grip-wise. I won't run non-Grid Spec tires. Even up front I tear the Control casings. But, I've never ridden the DHR2 in the "Dual" compound. Only the 3c, and in retrospect I think that was overkill out back.

On a slightly different note, I see a lot of people mentioning both the Ardent and Purg. 

Specialized clearly mimicked the DHF (great front tire) with the Butcher. I think they may have done the same thing with the Purg and Ardent.

Anyone who can compare the Ardent and Purg?


On another note, again, the DHF up front is a classic, great. Run the DHF/DHR2 combo on my DH rig and my AM bike. Currently I'm trying a Magic Mary up front of my AM bike and the tire is great and is holding up to abuse. It replaced a Nobby Nic Trailstar (ran a NN Trailstar front, Pace rear - Not an AM tire.) The MM was a hassle to set up tubeless and once it dies I'm pretty sure I'm going back to the DHF up front. Issue is the MM volume up front has me spoiled and the DHF is no where close to the volume of the MM. I run Derby rims so they are 34mm internal width, 40mm outer. There could be a strong case for the DHF WT. I'm just not sure if the extra tire weight is worth it. Also, when a tire gets fatter, casings get thinner, and thus weaker. 

Anyone out there on a DHF WT who can comment?


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## OMZ (Jul 15, 2012)

hitechredneck said:


> This was my plan as well. The only difference is that I am running the 3C in both the DHF and the DHR. I have a Minion SS sitting on the self and noticed that the shoulder knobs are more spaced out on the SS then the DHF/DHR. I have not mounted or ridden it yet, just wondering why maxxis would do this.


I think the increased spacing between the side knobs on the SS helps the braking performance of the tire, especially when the bike is angulated. I think the DHF and DHR2 are more reliant on the center knobs for braking.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

ColinL said:


> Context would be helpful. It is 'draggy' (meaning slow-rolling I assume) in comparison to what? Which tires have you used before, and what are you using now, that you find faster / better / whatever?


Yes slow rolling, in comparison to Ardent DC, DHRII DC, and HR2 DC. I've got along well with it as the front for my HT though. Back to a DHRII DC for the rear, and as mentioned above I will get a Minion SS for the rear once May rolls around


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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

Has anyone tried the DHF DC 2.5s on the rear? How to they compare to the other tires mentioned in rolling resistance.

I've not had a lot of experience with different tire setups but do notice it being more effort required to maintain speed on level ground than the butcher/purgatory combo. But the grip in a turn is awesome.


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## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

Is there a feeling that a certain size is better on the front and rear like 2.35 R and 2.25 F? 

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## Inter71 (Jul 13, 2014)

SimonNI said:


> Is there a feeling that a certain size is better on the front and rear like 2.35 R and 2.25 F?


Yes, but you have it reversed. Wider in front.


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## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

Thanks for that. After I posted tht I was like it's the other way round likely. 

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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Rode w/ TK 2.4 (f) and HRII 2.3 (r) tonight... you definitely notice the dragg on tarmac and smooth flat trails. 

But, when it gets techy, the grip is phenomenal! 

Rocky step ups, loose gravely climbs, narrow rocky step downs - tyres are frikin awesome!!

Just stay away from XC races o_0

-----------------------------------------------------------
#1 resolution... Ride it like I stole it!!


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## JCWages (Jan 26, 2015)

targnik said:


> Rode w/ TK 2.4 (f) and HRII 2.3 (r) tonight... you definitely notice the dragg on tarmac and smooth flat trails.
> 
> But, when it gets techy, the grip is phenomenal!
> 
> ...


Good to hear you say that. I was feeling like there is something wrong with me (more so than normal anyway) after struggling so much with the HRII 2.3 3C EXO Maxx Terra after riding for so long on the Trail Boss 2.25 dual compound. Felt like I was dragging something behind me. The grip is nice in the right conditions, overkill in others.


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## JCWages (Jan 26, 2015)

hitechredneck said:


> It's the wet season so pretty much everything rolls slow right now so I am not to much worried about the draggy feeling. I will say the 3c dhr2 rolls better then the 3c highroller 2 that I had on before.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


Is it generally accepted that in the "wet season" most tires roll slower or feel draggy? Is it because of the moisture content in the ground such that the ground is softer and there is more deformation than when on dry compacted soil?


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

That's how it feels to me, I ride on a lot of hard pack trails that have the same consistency of a gravel road. Lots of loose on top but hard below. When it gets to be winter, If the ground is not frozen it becomes mushy for lack of better words. That leads to a awful draggy feeling. 

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## JCWages (Jan 26, 2015)

hitechredneck said:


> That's how it feels to me, I ride on a lot of hard pack trails that have the same consistency of a gravel road. Lots of loose on top but hard below. When it gets to be winter, If the ground is not frozen it becomes mushy for lack of better words. That leads to a awful draggy feeling.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


A lot of the trails around here are hardpack and loose over hard. When you say "mushy" this is without actual mud right? Just that the ground feels like it has more give? This jives with basic soil science and porosity but I didn't think about it in terms of affecting rolling resistance. Duh right? So maybe I shouldn't hate on these tires so much. lol


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Yes, mushy without mud. Almost right down on beaches edge of the water. With less water. 

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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

I would describe them as spongy and definitely slower.


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## IstongKowldPaRin (Apr 6, 2009)

Currently using dhf 2.3 3c and dhr 2.3 3c

Great grip during damp conditions but will be swapping it out for hr2 3c front 2.4 and hr2 2c 2.3 rear since summer is approaching 


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

IstongKowldPaRin said:


> Currently using dhf 2.3 3c and dhr 2.3 3c
> 
> Great grip during damp conditions but will be swapping it out for hr2 3c front 2.4 and hr2 2c 2.3 rear since summer is approaching
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think you've got that backwards. The HR2 is a better damp conditions tire than the DHR2 for sure, and the DHR2 is better in dry conditions, plus it rolls much faster.

The DHF is faster than HR2 and nearly the grip in loam and mud.


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## IstongKowldPaRin (Apr 6, 2009)

Hmmmm... I've always thought that the dhr has more wet grip than the hr2 because of taller knobs.

So for wet weather I'll be sticking in the shorty up front with the hr2 at the back.

Sounds ok?


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

IstongKowldPaRin said:


> So for wet weather I'll be sticking in the shorty up front with the hr2 at the back.


That's kinda the gold standard of Maxxis rubber for damp-wet conditions.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

I've been having terrible luck with Maxxis lately, anyone else?

Cut a DHR on Saturday, then a DHF puncture/pinch on Monday...running the same pressure that I used for a Super-D run on the same trail a week earlier. It seems like I used to get away with a rim impact once and a while, not anymore.

Probably bad luck, luckily the front was repairable with a plug...it only had 40 miles on it!

Tire plug tip:
Cut off the excess so it doesn't get pulled back out.


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## RideMX104 (Jun 11, 2008)

Well it looks like I am going to try out a WTB Breakout in the rear with a Vigilante in the (probably my favorite front tire ever) both in the heavy casing. I have a few DHR2 EXO tires on the shelf and they seem to be a pretty good rear tire Ive had one on for a couple months and its wearing pretty evenly and have had zero dependability issues as well. Might hold on to them for the looser courses. Anyone run a DHR2 Front and rear? I have it with a DHF in front and they pair great but I am ready to go back to the Vigilante on the front!


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Anyone running a Maxxis Minion SS as a rear? Love my DHR2 rear but kind of draggy once the dry of spring/summer starts


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Not yet. This summer I plan on running a cut DHR2 in the front and a SS in the rear. 

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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

IstongKowldPaRin said:


> Hmmmm... I've always thought that the dhr has more wet grip than the hr2 because of taller knobs.
> 
> So for wet weather I'll be sticking in the shorty up front with the hr2 at the back.
> 
> ...


I just went to the shorty front HR2 rear. I was excited to ride in the wet muck we were having. Then got 18" of snow over the weekend. Guess I will have to wait a bit longer.

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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

rpearce1475 said:


> Anyone running a Maxxis Minion SS as a rear? Love my DHR2 rear but kind of draggy once the dry of spring/summer starts


I've been on the SS for the past 6 mo. coming from a DHR2. Yes, the SS rolls a bit better (easier) however I don't notice a night n day difference, which was a slight dissapointment. What I did notice is a decrease in braking performance, which you would expect as the DHR2 has probably the best in class braking. The SS is indeed grippy in turns. In loose over hard, you can feel it start to break free until you get it leaned over enough to engage the side knobs, which you would also expect given its tread profile.
I like the SS for the terrain I'm currently riding (Central TX rocky). Like the DHR2, its confidence inspiring over just about any terrain here. As an aside, I haven't tried the Rock Razor which is a direct competitor. Reports of it wearing fast dissuaded me from trying it. The SS "seems" to wear very well.

Set-up:
27.5 on ENVE AM, 20psi tubeless. Weight 175#


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## JCWages (Jan 26, 2015)

rpearce1475 said:


> Anyone running a Maxxis Minion SS as a rear? Love my DHR2 rear but kind of draggy once the dry of spring/summer starts


Just bought one to replace my Trail Boss in the rear but we are getting way too much rain for me to bother mounting it. Hopefully more will chime in because there is a lack of real world reporting on these.


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## RideMX104 (Jun 11, 2008)

As others posted in this thread for a tire in this class the Slaughter Grid is my favorite so far. Lasts much longer than the RockRazor too and hooks up when you lean it over.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Okay just to throw another wrench in here...anyone running a Maxxis Tomahawk as rear tire? Thoughts on that compared to Minion SS as a rear?

*Edit: nevermind http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/new-maxxis-minion-semi-slick-tomahawk-958917-5.html*


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

Miker J said:


> Anyone who can compare the Ardent and Purg?


Kinda late response, but these are a completely different class of tire.

The Ardent is more of the "HR2" sort of grippy tire where it has a center row of knobs, a space, and then the side knobs. There is a "vague" area where you're coming off the center knobs and into the side knobs. Much like the HR2. The DHF/DHR2/Purg sort of tire doesn't have that gap and doesn't stop gripping. IMO, the "end grip" of the HR2 is more, but I don't have enough skill to get there, and I like the feel of the DHF/DHF2/Purg experience instead.

I run a Butcher Grid front and Purg Grid on the rear on my 29" "enduro" bike. I'm thinking of this year swapping over to the 2.5 DHF on the front, and possibly sticking with the Purg rear. I feel the DHR2 is a bit too slow rolling and almost too grippy. With the Purg, I can still make the rear end swing out in corners and tight switchbacks, where the DHR2 is just STUCK.

I've also taken to cutting down a few of the Purg center knobs. I'm sure it's all mental, but it gives it a bit more of a "Slaughter/SS Minion" feel, but not quite that crazy. When I tried the Slaughter, I couldn't get the bike slowed down at the bike parks.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

trhoppe said:


> I've also taken to cutting down a few of the Purg center knobs. I'm sure it's all mental, but it gives it a bit more of a "Slaughter/SS Minion" feel, but not quite that crazy. When I tried the Slaughter, I couldn't get the bike slowed down at the bike parks.


Good stuff. I too have thought about "modifying" to get what I want. The Purg only comes in a 2.3. If you have time could you measure the Purgatory width (I'm constrained on stay width).


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

For me, it's hard to beat NobbyNic's predictability out back: a 2.35 on a i30 or i35 rim makes fat meat, and trailstar sticks to rock without slowing you down much on pack. I've had a Hans Dampf in the front, and just keep digging it. 

Ever since moving to Schwalbe a few years ago, I've not touched Maxxis, but have tried a few WTBs (Bronson, TB, Vig), that I didn't like as much. What have ya'll used from other companies that as versatile and sturdy as the Hans Dampf? ...I've been eyeing the Minion DHF 2.5... but it's pretty hefty...


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## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

I used to ride the hans dampf, now its strictly the magic mary. As i got faster and better, the hans dampf doesnt keep up with the demands. It doesnt dig enough enough on loose terrain and the semi-transitional knobs prevent the corner knobs from really digging in and cause an unwanted drift. 

I'm sure the magic mary is slower rolling, but man, the traction is endless as long as my body position is close.

I'm talking front tire only. I like maxxis in the rear, DHR II and now trying to tomahawk.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

I like to hear that -- My only gripe with the HD was not being able to throw the tire onto those side knobs as well as I did other heavier DH tires back in my DH days, so this is good news. I'll have to get on it. Same thing with Tomahawk -- I was looking that way for the rear too; love the Nic but it just goes to **** so fast...


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## IstongKowldPaRin (Apr 6, 2009)

hitechredneck said:


> I just went to the shorty front HR2 rear. I was excited to ride in the wet muck we were having. Then got 18" of snow over the weekend. Guess I will have to wait a bit longer.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


What widths are you using and what rims are you mounting them on?

Looking into 30mm inner rims

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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

I went with the 2.3 3c compound front and rear. They are on 29mm inner specialized roval fatties. I'm right in the Grey area of between the WT and the normal. But I rode 2.5 (the new 2.3) minions on my 30 mm inner DH bike for years so the profiles look normal to me, some might say too square. I guess it depends on what you are used to. 

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## roxtar (Sep 7, 2009)

RideMX104 said:


> Well it looks like I am going to try out a WTB Breakout in the rear with a Vigilante in the (probably my favorite front tire ever) both in the heavy casing. I have a few DHR2 EXO tires on the shelf and they seem to be a pretty good rear tire Ive had one on for a couple months and its wearing pretty evenly and have had zero dependability issues as well. Might hold on to them for the looser courses. Anyone run a DHR2 Front and rear? I have it with a DHF in front and they pair great but I am ready to go back to the Vigilante on the front!


I'm a big fan of the Breakout. Good on everything but loose marbles and best hardpack tire I've tried.
I'm currently trying out the new Schwalbe Gravity Series Hans Dampfs. Thickest sidewalls I've ever seen. They should definitely be durable in the sharp rocky stuff we have here in northern NM. The traction is unreal but they are slow rolling.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

roxtar said:


> I'm a big fan of the Breakout. Good on everything but loose marbles and best hardpack tire I've tried.
> I'm currently trying out the new Schwalbe Gravity Series Hans Dampfs. Thickest sidewalls I've ever seen. They should definitely be durable in the sharp rocky stuff we have here in northern NM. The traction is unreal but they are slow rolling.


You wouldn't happen to be familiar with the santa fe area and best tire choice there? I'm doing the BME and do not thibk I will get a chance to pre ride the area before that trip.

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## JCWages (Jan 26, 2015)

roxtar said:


> I'm a big fan of the Breakout. Good on everything but loose marbles and best hardpack tire I've tried.
> I'm currently trying out the new Schwalbe Gravity Series Hans Dampfs. Thickest sidewalls I've ever seen. They should definitely be durable in the sharp rocky stuff we have here in northern NM. The traction is unreal but they are slow rolling.


Have you tried to Tough version of the WTB tires? They use a 2-ply casing which is pretty darn stiff. I have 2 Trail Boss tires in the Tough casing that I'm saving for really rough stuff. The Fast versions hold up well for me so I can't stomach the weight increase going to the Tough casing unless I'm racing.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

I've found TCS Light to be far too fragile for use in any rocky conditions. In fact, I've had TCS Light tires that weep sealant through the sidewall when new. TCS Tough is nearly the same weight as an ordinary 2-ply DH tire.

Maxxis' Double Down casing seems like a great 2-ply tubeless casing since it's so much lighter than a traditional 2-ply DH tire. Problem is, there aren't hardly any tires that have it yet.


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## roxtar (Sep 7, 2009)

hitechredneck said:


> You wouldn't happen to be familiar with the santa fe area and best tire choice there? I'm doing the BME and do not thibk I will get a chance to pre ride the area before that trip.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


I'm just north of there in Los Alamos and I raced that event last year. Breakouts on F&R would be perfect for that course unless they get a lot of rain, which is very rare but happened last year. If that happens again (doubtful) I'd go with the Breakout rear/Vigilante front.


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## roxtar (Sep 7, 2009)

JCWages said:


> Have you tried to Tough version of the WTB tires? They use a 2-ply casing which is pretty darn stiff. I have 2 Trail Boss tires in the Tough casing that I'm saving for really rough stuff. The Fast versions hold up well for me so I can't stomach the weight increase going to the Tough casing unless I'm racing.





ColinL said:


> I've found TCS Light to be far too fragile for use in any rocky conditions. In fact, I've had TCS Light tires that weep sealant through the sidewall when new. TCS Tough is nearly the same weight as an ordinary 2-ply DH tire.
> 
> Maxxis' Double Down casing seems like a great 2-ply tubeless casing since it's so much lighter than a traditional 2-ply DH tire. Problem is, there aren't hardly any tires that have it yet.


I'm the race director for the Los Alamos Enduro so I didn't get to race it last year. I did recommend the 2.5 Breakout Fast/Tough to a local guy who ended up just 10 seconds behind the top pro time (over two days/7 stages of racing).
Obviously, he was a fan of them for racing, however, there's a pretty good weight penalty at over 1100 grams/tire so he doesn't use them for daily riding.

The Maxxis DD and Schwalbe Gravity Series are examples of the new thinking coming out of tire companies concerning enduro racing.
Enduro racers are tearing up standard tires and DH casings are too heavy. Rather than try to beef up their standard tires they're slimming down the DH versions, using kevlar beads and sightly lighter sidewalls.
You end up with a 1000 gram tire that holds up well.


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## JCWages (Jan 26, 2015)

ColinL said:


> I've found TCS Light to be far too fragile for use in any rocky conditions. In fact, I've had TCS Light tires that weep sealant through the sidewall when new. TCS Tough is nearly the same weight as an ordinary 2-ply DH tire.
> 
> Maxxis' Double Down casing seems like a great 2-ply tubeless casing since it's so much lighter than a traditional 2-ply DH tire. Problem is, there aren't hardly any tires that have it yet.





roxtar said:


> I'm the race director for the Los Alamos Enduro so I didn't get to race it last year. I did recommend the 2.5 Breakout Fast/Tough to a local guy who ended up just 10 seconds behind the top pro time (over two days/7 stages of racing).
> Obviously, he was a fan of them for racing, however, there's a pretty good weight penalty at over 1100 grams/tire so he doesn't use them for daily riding.
> 
> The Maxxis DD and Schwalbe Gravity Series are examples of the new thinking coming out of tire companies concerning enduro racing.
> ...


I hear ya. I was just curious because I've had great results with the Light casing despite beating them up on rocky trails for quite a long time for a single tire. 

The Tough/Fast casing 2.4 Trail Boss weighs in at 1040g (2.25 at 1020g) which isn't too bad for a 2-ply but quite a bit heavier than the 2.25 Light/fast version at 784g.

I rode this one the other day and the tire didn't even flinch. Then again I went slower because I freaked out thinking I scratched my new carbon cranks. lol


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

I have not used a wtb tire in forever. Never had much luck since the weirwolf. I tend to lean to the tire types without transition knobs since I tend to throw the bike around instead of lean slowly. 

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## JCWages (Jan 26, 2015)

hitechredneck said:


> I have not used a wtb tire in forever. Never had much luck since the weirwolf. I tend to lean to the tire types without transition knobs since I tend to throw the bike around instead of lean slowly.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


Yeah, for your type of riding the Vigilante comes up short.


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## roxtar (Sep 7, 2009)

hitechredneck said:


> I have not used a wtb tire in forever. Never had much luck since the weirwolf. I tend to lean to the tire types without transition knobs since I tend to throw the bike around instead of lean slowly.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


In my experience, where the Minion beats out the Breakout is on the loose marbles type of terrain. The transition knobs tend to roll on top rather than dig in like the Minion.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

I've looked through most of this thread, but am trying to get a consensus on the best combo for rocky/rooty (E coast) courses that will likely see some rain. I'm moving from Schwalbe, because I'm concerned about durability and getting my sidewalls sliced. So looking mainly at Maxxis DHF (front) 3C MaxxTerra and HR2 (rear) -- but what compound would you recommend for the rear? I ask because I've read a few things about wanting a harder Maxxis compound out back.

Also, if you've run this combo or similar, and would recommend something else, I'd really like to hear it.


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## RideMX104 (Jun 11, 2008)

RideMX104 said:


> Well it looks like I am going to try out a WTB Breakout in the rear with a Vigilante in the (probably my favorite front tire ever) both in the heavy casing. I have a few DHR2 EXO tires on the shelf and they seem to be a pretty good rear tire Ive had one on for a couple months and its wearing pretty evenly and have had zero dependability issues as well. Might hold on to them for the looser courses. Anyone run a DHR2 Front and rear? I have it with a DHF in front and they pair great but I am ready to go back to the Vigilante on the front!


Just an update on my prior post. I put on the DHR2's front and rear a couple weeks ago and they are decent. I had a puncture in the casing within the first few rides (Middle Sam Merril trail) on a trail that I have punctured quite a few tires on (accept heavy casing WTB and HR2) so I guess I was not surprised. As far as the handling goes they obviously brake very well and provide nice handling on steep, loose sections. A little skiddish on packed, dry terrain. Cant wait to go back to WTB.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

Collins said:


> I've looked through most of this thread, but am trying to get a consensus on the best combo for rocky/rooty (E coast) courses that will likely see some rain. I'm moving from Schwalbe, because I'm concerned about durability and getting my sidewalls sliced. So looking mainly at Maxxis DHF (front) 3C MaxxTerra and HR2 (rear) -- but what compound would you recommend for the rear? I ask because I've read a few things about wanting a harder Maxxis compound out back.


Maxxis employee chiming in. This is a really popular setup since the HR2 rolls a good bit better than the DHF. If you're worried about wet performance, grab one of the new 3C MaxxGrip DHFs for the front and a 3C MaxxTerra HR2 for the back. If you're wanting a longer lasting rear tire you can get the High Roller II in a dual compound setup which wont be as good as the MaxxTerra on wet roots and rocks but hold up a lot better in the longterm.

For what it's worth, I've been really happy with a 3C MaxxTerra Minion DHF on the front and a DoubleDown Dual Compound Aggressor on the back. Rolls better than the HRII or DHRII would on the back and seems to hook up better on loose climbs. DD on the back tire is really helpful since that's where the weight is on hard landings and g-outs, tons of support for hard cornering and a stronger casing against sharp rocks.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Collins said:


> I've looked through most of this thread, but am trying to get a consensus on the best combo for rocky/rooty (E coast) courses that will likely see some rain. I'm moving from Schwalbe, because I'm concerned about durability and getting my sidewalls sliced. So looking mainly at Maxxis DHF (front) 3C MaxxTerra and HR2 (rear) -- but what compound would you recommend for the rear? I ask because I've read a few things about wanting a harder Maxxis compound out back.
> 
> Also, if you've run this combo or similar, and would recommend something else, I'd really like to hear it.


I have been happy with my hr2 3c in the rear and shorty up front combo as of late. I will say that I won't be going with the hr2 on the rear again in 2.3 it does not play very well with the 30mm plus inner rim width in my opinion. As it starts to dry out I will be putting the 3c DHF back on the front with a 3c highroller till it dies then going to try out my minion ss or aggressor on the rear.

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## CO29 (Mar 25, 2015)

I noticed they only offer the aggressor in 27.5, what will you run rear on the Riot? Really interested in the minion SS, but not sure about loose over hard - I've heard mixed reviews.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

They might just be feeling out how it plays out. IMHO maxxis is starting to get to the point of too much over lap and confusion for buyers on which tires are for what. I'm glad they offer a wide selection but it is becoming a bit overwhelming to choose a tire, they need some sort of tire selection guide preferably with pictures of trails you can click on to make it easier. Some call loose over hard what some call loose or vise versa. Then a weight and rolling resistance selection. Then suggest a few tires starting at top and going 3 deep. A good way to see something like this in action is Bridgestone golf ball online fitter. User friendly interface, with product selection advice. People in the golf world rave about it. Wish tire companies would something along the same lines. (Maxxis marketing department are you listening) 

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## roxtar (Sep 7, 2009)

Collins said:


> I'm moving from Schwalbe, because I'm concerned about durability and getting my sidewalls sliced.


Check out Schwalbe's Gravity Series.
I've been running the Gravity Hans Dampfs for a month now. That same incredible grip with a bulletproof carcass.
A little portly, at 1000 grams for 27.5, but it's probably the perfect tire for your conditions.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

CO29 said:


> I noticed they only offer the aggressor in 27.5, what will you run rear on the Riot? Really interested in the minion SS, but not sure about loose over hard - I've heard mixed reviews.


The Aggressor is coming out in 26" and 29" versions later in the year in EXO and DoubleDown casings.


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## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

Anyone have time on the Tomahawk or DHF EXO WT?

I need a new wet season rear tire, in the past have always just run DHF 3C EXO. But I don't like them on the wide light-bicycle rims with 31.5 inner width. Too squared off and the side knobs die really fast on me. I'm happy with the Magic Mary on the front with the wider rims, corners like a beast and so far holding up nicely. I don't necessarily want fast rolling, but the Mary is just too darn slow in the back.

Hoping the Minion WT works better, but I want someone else to be the sucker and test them out first :thumbsup:

Also curious about Tomahawk for faster rolling but still wet grip. I'm worried that the ramped side knobs lack bite. Hoping for basically a Purgatory with softer rubber for better wet rock traction in "winter" (9 months in Cascadia).


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Why not try a Nobby Nic 2.25 in the back? Seen plenty of people running those on the Ibis rims, which are a touch wider than your LBs


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## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

rpearce1475 said:


> Why not try a Nobby Nic 2.25 in the back? Seen plenty of people running those on the Ibis rims, which are a touch wider than your LBs


I'd need some strong recommendations from aggressive wet weather riders to take that plunge. For dry, I'm happy with Purgatory.

Shwabobly tires are funny. Mary is one of the best tires I've tried, equivalent to the 2.5 Minions on my DH bike. Hans Dampf is one of the worst tires I've tried, shed knobs, didn't brake, didn't corner when it mattered, clogged up even in duff, though it was a nice tire on hardpack. Go figure.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

Thanks for the solid feedback, folks.

I'll give you a hoisted rec for the 2.35 Nobby Nic on a i30 rim -- that's one of the best tires I've used on greasy W PA trails, and it sticks on wet roots and rock. I've been using this for the past two years; spins up fast, too. I haven't sliced a sidewall, but have gotten a few punctures that were too big to seal up without a t-plug... And that's why I'm looking at Maxxis for new race tires: I do not want to flat during a race, obviously. 

I'll look a little harder at the Gravity series, and compare weights. I'm on a Remedy 29 now, so that rotating weight gets big quickly.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

juice said:


> Hans Dampf is one of the worst tires I've tried, shed knobs, didn't brake, didn't corner when it mattered, clogged up even in duff, though it was a nice tire on hardpack. Go figure.


Really?



Collins said:


> I'll give you a hoisted rec for the 2.35 Nobby Nic on a i30 rim -- that's one of the best tires I've used on greasy W PA trails, and it sticks on wet roots and rock. I've been using this for the past two years; spins up fast, too. I haven't sliced a sidewall, but have gotten a few punctures that were too big to seal up without a t-plug... And that's why I'm looking at Maxxis for new race tires: I do not want to flat during a race, obviously.
> 
> I'll look a little harder at the Gravity series, and compare weights. I'm on a Remedy 29 now, so that rotating weight gets big quickly.


I'm running the NN 2.35 TS/2.25 PS on i29/i26 29er rims. I would bet that you'll not be happy going away from that combo, simply because of the rotational weight gain, which will be 100g+ per wheel. If you're doing enduro, then maybe so, but anything less destructive, then I'd stay put. Another reason is you already know how they behave in all conditions, know the air pressures to use in those conditions, etc. 
That said, if you do go the Maxis route, please report back, as you would have a good comparison review.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

juice said:


> *Anyone have time on the Tomahawk* or DHF EXO WT?
> 
> *I need a new wet season rear tire,* in the past have always just run DHF 3C EXO.
> Also curious about Tomahawk for faster rolling but still wet grip. I'm worried that the ramped side knobs lack bite. Hoping for basically a Purgatory with softer rubber for better wet rock traction in "winter" (9 months in Cascadia).


The Tomahawk is not made for mud, at all. The knobs are not tall enough nor shaped appropriately for mud.

I generally avoid mud, but have found myself in marshy areas on trails the past few months, while most of the trail was fully dry.

Tomahawk has reasonable grip on damp surfaces, because it's 3C Maxx Terra. Pretty soft compounds. But in mud, it spins easily, especially on the rear.

It's made to be a hardpack and loose-over-hard tire. Not mud or deep loam.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

GTscoob said:


> Maxxis employee chiming in. This is a really popular setup since the HR2 rolls a good bit better than the DHF. If you're worried about wet performance, grab one of the new 3C MaxxGrip DHFs for the front and a 3C MaxxTerra HR2 for the back. If you're wanting a longer lasting rear tire you can get the High Roller II in a dual compound setup which wont be as good as the MaxxTerra on wet roots and rocks but hold up a lot better in the longterm.
> 
> For what it's worth, I've been really happy with a 3C MaxxTerra Minion DHF on the front and a DoubleDown Dual Compound Aggressor on the back. Rolls better than the HRII or DHRII would on the back and seems to hook up better on loose climbs. DD on the back tire is really helpful since that's where the weight is on hard landings and g-outs, tons of support for hard cornering and a stronger casing against sharp rocks.


HRII vs. DHR II

How about a "compare and contrast" for these two tires.

Where and why use one vs the other?

I'm a big DHR II fan for a rear tire.

DHF or Magic Mary for the front (depends on rim width).


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

gtscoob, any idea if we'll see a 2.4 DHR2 in the Double Down casing soon? I'm running the 2.4 Exo DHR2s right now and like them a lot, nice size and tire profile on my i30 rims. Maybe the extra 100 grams over the 2.3 DHR2 gets the 2.4 a little closer to DD durability? I've had issues with punctures on the smaller tires in the Exo casing, but 900g seems to be about the sweet spot for me above which I haven't had many issues in the past. But I'm still holding back a bit while I feel things out with these.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Okay guys, getting a set of wider (LB 38/32) carbon wheels with this year's tax return. Currently running Minion DHF/DHRII on Stans Flows, have heard that with the wider wheels you can run lower profile, lighter tires and get the same grip as more aggressive treads on narrower rims. That being said, thinking about getting the Nobby Nic 2.35 Trailstar F, 2.25 pacestar/double defense rear, both snakeskin. My worry is that the front won't be as grippy as the DHF. Any tried this combo and can comment on the grip difference between 2.35 NN vs 2.35 Hans Dampf?


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## Waafoo (Mar 13, 2010)

rpearce1475 said:


> Okay guys, getting a set of wider (LB 38/32) carbon wheels with this year's tax return. Currently running Minion DHF/DHRII on Stans Flows, have heard that with the wider wheels you can run lower profile, lighter tires and get the same grip as more aggressive treads on narrower rims. That being said, thinking about getting the Nobby Nic 2.35 Trailstar F, 2.25 pacestar/double defense rear, both snakeskin. My worry is that the front won't be as grippy as the DHF. Any tried this combo and can comment on the grip difference between 2.35 NN vs 2.35 Hans Dampf?


I have run Minions, High rollers, ardents up front and many others, nothing sticks as good as the knobby nick! I haven't run a Dampf yet. That being said every Schwalbe I own has a hole or rip in it, I love them for my XC bike but no way would I run one in a enduro race. I was recently told about the double defense side wall and plan on trying that and hope it works as good as Maxxis EXO. Snake skin will not cut it for bashing through rocks on a big bike.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Mmm... I've ridden SS HD/RR on really rocky terrain... heard tyre scraping and pinging off rocks - marks are there on tyre, but they're still in one piece ^^

PS - more than 1 ride :fyi:

-----------------------------------------------------------
#1 resolution... Ride it like I stole it!!


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## Waafoo (Mar 13, 2010)

What do I know! Why do I bother.^^


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Don't worry wafoo I have killed every set of schwalbe tires I have run. Except the super gravity magic mary on the front. Hans I rip the side knobs off and leave a hole in the casing. But who knows, we might just ride a bit harder then others, or ride where more rocks eat tires. 

I run the LB 38/32mm rims with hadley hub on my 29er with minion dhf front and they work out great. The nobby nic will not grip as well at the limit as the minion in my oppion. So if you hoping for more out right traction you will be sad. The nobby nic will however be better at the half lean angle in the transition zone. Some like that feeling better. For me I'm a stuff the tire in the corner and hope it sticks kind of rider. Which the minion works better on imho. But the nic works better for some. Wafoo is a fast mother trucker and he likes it better. So just different strokes for different folks. 

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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

rpearce1475 said:


> Okay guys, getting a set of wider (LB 38/32) carbon wheels with this year's tax return. Currently running Minion DHF/DHRII on Stans Flows, have heard that with the wider wheels you can run lower profile, lighter tires and get the same grip as more aggressive treads on narrower rims. That being said, thinking about getting the Nobby Nic 2.35 Trailstar F, 2.25 pacestar/double defense rear, both snakeskin. My worry is that the front won't be as grippy as the DHF. Any tried this combo and can comment on the grip difference between 2.35 NN vs 2.35 Hans Dampf?


Been there, done it.

I run/ran the DHF/DHRII for quite some time. I tried the NN 2.35, Trail/Pace, with the snakeskin casing only. Compared to the Minions they are a big step below in terms of grip. I found them not very confidence inspiring at all. They only lasted a few rides and now collect dust on my floor.

Flows were a good match for the Minions, but I too stepped up to wider carbon rims and the Minions do seem to match up with not-so-wide rims.

A Magic Mary landed in my lap. When the DHF died, I figured I'd try the MM. Excellent profile on a wider rim (Derby), and I'm very happy with it. Grips about the same as a DHF. I will likely go back to the DHF for the front when the MM dies, but will try the WT version. The Minions strike me as a more durable tire, though the MM has been holding up fine. The Minions set up much easier as tubeless compared to the Schwalbes.

When the DHRII died I replaced it with a Spec Purg Grid which I had lying around. Doesn't have the grip of the DHRII but still a great tire, and even the Purg was better than the Pacestar NN - the tire was fast but felt like I was riding on plastic, and when things got wet, no good.

The HD - got one in a swap and ran it up front. Not sure if they revamped it, but the version I had had good grip, but died quickly.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Heard similar things about durability issues with the HD. I know my current minions won't jive well with the wider carbon rims, and I can get the Schwalbes so cheap online I figure I might as well try them. If the grip/durability leaves something to be desired, I can switch. Sounds like NN 2.35/2.25 it is, maybe get a MM for the front for races if the NN are lacking


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

rpearce1475 said:


> Heard similar things about durability issues with the HD. I know my current minions won't jive well with the wider carbon rims, and I can get the Schwalbes so cheap online I figure I might as well try them. If the grip/durability leaves something to be desired, I can switch. Sounds like NN 2.35/2.25 it is, maybe get a MM for the front for races if the NN are lacking


Why do you thibk they won't jive well? I run that combo just fine. The highroller 2 gets too square, but the minion does not.

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## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

If you had used nothing but schwalbe NN (winter) RR (summer) in the rear with a HD up front but longing to try out something different say from Maxxis, what would you go with?


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

Has anyone tried Maxxis Aggressor as a rear tire and Maxxis Tomahawk in the front?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

ban said:


> Has anyone tried Maxxis Aggressor as a rear tire and Maxxis Tomahawk in the front?


Pretty sure you don't want to do that since the Aggressor has more tread depth and knobs overall. It likely has more grip than the Tomahawk on most surfaces, and rolls slower. I'm just looking at the Aggressor - I've ridden the Tomahawk a lot, though.

Aggressor front / Tomahawk rear would be good in mostly dry conditions, especially if there is little to no climbing on loose soil. That's where the Tomahawk really falls down- it just wasn't made for loose or muddy terrain.


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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

hitechredneck said:


> Why do you thibk they won't jive well? I run that combo just fine. The highroller 2 gets too square, but the minion does not.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


My personal experience...

I went from 25mm Aluminum rims on my E29 to IBIS 941s. Using the exact same tires 2.5x29 Minion DHF, 3C Front DC rear the 25mm rims were easier to get that shredding the turn feeling. On the 35mm rims it requires very high lean angles to get the same response even though the tread is more squared off. My speculation is that the cornering blocks aren't the only blocks engaged on the ground until the bike is leaned way over.

TLDR: Non-WT 29er Minions seem to shred better on 25mm rims vs 35mm rims.


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## roxtar (Sep 7, 2009)

Guys, read the whole post.
The standard HD, while giving great traction, does not hold up to rocks.
The Gravity Series HD is a monster. Seriously, a 6 ply sidewall. It feels like a car tire.
It'd take a machete to slice one.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

Right: The WT (Wide Trail) DHF works well on i30-35mm rims; the regular DHF gets squared off too much and doesn't corner so well. Of course, the regular DHF works great on i23-i25 rims. 

I do long rocky rides on SS Nic and HD, but I won't be racing on them; flats are likely, and the casings themselves just don't support hardhard cornering/landing/g-outs.


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

ColinL said:


> Pretty sure you don't want to do that since the Aggressor has more tread depth and knobs overall. It likely has more grip than the Tomahawk on most surfaces, and rolls slower. I'm just looking at the Aggressor - I've ridden the Tomahawk a lot, though.
> 
> Aggressor front / Tomahawk rear would be good in mostly dry conditions, especially if there is little to no climbing on loose soil. That's where the Tomahawk really falls down- it just wasn't made for loose or muddy terrain.


Great info, cheers!


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## nojoke (Apr 15, 2008)

roxtar said:


> Check out Schwalbe's Gravity Series.
> I've been running the Gravity Hans Dampfs for a month now. That same incredible grip with a bulletproof carcass.
> A little portly, at 1000 grams for 27.5, but it's probably the perfect tire for your conditions.


Do you know anyone who has experience with the Rock Razor in supergravity? I run Magic Mary front & Rock Razor in rear with the snakeskin/tubeless. In love with the combo on my home trails.

Only reason I ask is because I'm going to vegas area, and plan to do some riding out there, and some shuttles at Bootleg. Was thinking about snagging some super gravity casing for the added protection.

Thanks


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## roxtar (Sep 7, 2009)

nojoke said:


> Do you know anyone who has experience with the Rock Razor in supergravity? I run Magic Mary front & Rock Razor in rear with the snakeskin/tubeless. In love with the combo on my home trails.
> 
> Only reason I ask is because I'm going to vegas area, and plan to do some riding out there, and some shuttles at Bootleg. Was thinking about snagging some super gravity casing for the added protection.
> 
> Thanks


No experience with that combo, however, my experience with the HD tells me it's the same tire in a bulletproof carcass.
I mean, six ply sidewall?!
Seriously overbuilt.


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## nojoke (Apr 15, 2008)

roxtar said:


> No experience with that combo, however, my experience with the HD tells me it's the same tire in a bulletproof carcass.
> I mean, six ply sidewall?!
> Seriously overbuilt.


6? That means business.....hahah. The weight penalty looks to be at a minimum also. Thanks for the info!


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

Weight penalty... I was thinking about a Magic Mary up front:

29 x 2.35 SnakeSkin, TL Easy TrailStar 885 g
29 x 2.35 SUPER GRAVITY, TL Easy TrailStar 1165 g

Dang. 280g = .6 lbs (.28 kg) of rotational weight difference. Gonna feel that.
But I think that just about any 29" tire that won't get ripped up while ridden hard on a properly rocky DH-ish trail will come in ~1100+ g. 

Anybody know of exceptions?


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

When "enduroing" always go with 1000+ gram tires for longevity. ESPECIALLY when it comes to 29ers.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Nope. 1000+ grams for 29er are about it as far as taking full retard in sharp rocks. I am able to get away with EXO maxxis tires for most stuff but would not trust racing where a flat can cost you a race. But those are 900 plus. I am also a train as you fight type. So I train with beefy tires that way I do not have to adjust to the weight during a race situation. 

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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

Wait -- I assume that most of ya'll running Maxxis in races are using EXO with 3C MaxxTerra or MaxxGrip compounds, correct? Some will be using the "double down" versions when available, but you folks weren't just shredding the 3C/EXO versions, correct?
--A 3C/EXO 29" DHF is 925g, which sounds great next to 1100g.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

That's the 2.3 which is really tiny. 

29 DHF 2.5 = 1015 and 29 Butcher 2.3 = 1000 which are the two I've been using.


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## fitnessgeek (Feb 8, 2006)

GTscoob said:


> Maxxis employee chiming in. This is a really popular setup since the HR2 rolls a good bit better than the DHF. If you're worried about wet performance, grab one of the new 3C MaxxGrip DHFs for the front and a 3C MaxxTerra HR2 for the back. If you're wanting a longer lasting rear tire you can get the High Roller II in a dual compound setup which wont be as good as the MaxxTerra on wet roots and rocks but hold up a lot better in the longterm.
> 
> For what it's worth, I've been really happy with a 3C MaxxTerra Minion DHF on the front and a DoubleDown Dual Compound Aggressor on the back. Rolls better than the HRII or DHRII would on the back and seems to hook up better on loose climbs. DD on the back tire is really helpful since that's where the weight is on hard landings and g-outs, tons of support for hard cornering and a stronger casing against sharp rocks.


This is the combo I was thinking of running on my Nomad with Enve M70's - DHF front and Aggressor DD on back. I was also considering the Aggressor front and rear. After all this research I was set to place an order online and it seems nobody has the aggressor DD in stock


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## MisledYouth (Nov 2, 2014)

Heard through the grapevine that Aggressors might not be available until June.


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## twodragunns (Oct 8, 2015)

Started running 2 x 29" Maxxis Minion 2.4" DHR2 tri compound tires tubeless ....... replaced the 2 Specialized Butchers I previously had on my 2015 Specialized Enduro Elite. Big improvement overall, especially for climbing.


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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

twodragunns said:


> Started running 2 x 29" Maxxis Minion 2.4" DHR2 tri compound tires tubeless ....... replaced the 2 Specialized Butchers I previously had on my 2015 Specialized Enduro Elite. Big improvement overall, especially for climbing.


Maxxis has recommended that setup to me also...


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

softbatch said:


> Maxxis has recommended that setup to me also...


What conditions did you tell them?

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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

It's interesting to see DHR2 for the front over a DHF. Wonder what the reasoning is there. Same setup as on the SC Hightower.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

That is what I was wondering as well. 

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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

trhoppe said:


> It's interesting to see DHR2 for the front over a DHF. Wonder what the reasoning is there. Same setup as on the SC Hightower.


IMHO, on hard surfaces the DHR2 gives up very little cornering to the DHF. It definitely has a more abrupt transition on looser surfaces though. The DHR2 seems to brake better and roll a little faster.

Since they have the same shoulder knobs, it's easy to guess that the reason is the DHF's split center knobs, which is a feature copied by competitors like the Specialized Butcher.

On loamy terrain the difference is more pronounced. The DHF hooks up noticeably better in my opinion.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

Makes sense. The DHR2 is kinda like the HR2, but with better transition paddles. I felt the HR2 had a super abrupt transition. 

For me, DHF front and DHR2 rear is still the combo to beat, since I get a bit better front and grip, and even initiate a touch of a drift when the DHR2 "let's go" for a quick sec where the DHF never does. 

And yes, the same tire designer designed both the DHF and Butcher, so there is a reason they are very similar


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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

hitechredneck said:


> What conditions did you tell them?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk





trhoppe said:


> It's interesting to see DHR2 for the front over a DHF. Wonder what the reasoning is there. Same setup as on the SC Hightower.


The biggest thing is I'm running the IBIS 941s. When I went from the stock 25mm wheels to the 35mm wheels I lost some of the Carve/Shred that the Dual DHFs had initially and that should comeback with the Widetrail DHRs. Maxxis doesn't have WT DHFs in 29 yet.

The 3C front and DC rear DHFs were really perfectly balanced on my 25mm rims and if I purchase the DHR WTs to go on my 941s I'll put the DHFs back on my old rims to compare again.

I'd also hope the DHRs reduce the rolling resistance I'm getting.


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## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

Anyone use the a Magic Mary on the front? 

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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

SimonNI said:


> Anyone use the a Magic Mary on the front?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Yes. It is a very good front tire, and it works well with wide rims as it it's very fat.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

Mary and DHF are go-to front meats for EWS. Got to get the "super-gravity" casing, though, as Schwalbe will puncture on rocks. That casing holds up much better in hard cornering, too. 
(After running snakeskin Schwalbes for the last two years, then switching to beefy casings, I see what I've been missing. Weight, for sure... but stability and toughness too.)


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## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. Running a schwalbe HD and not liking it at all. Been reading up and like the sound of the MM. 

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## Whip Chop! (Apr 27, 2007)

SimonNI said:


> Anyone use the a Magic Mary on the front?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Started using a Magic Mary trail star sg casing up front last year and it's been amazing with good wear. I was using a dhf.


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## Duffman1976 (Aug 27, 2015)

I know it's not ideal but has anyone mounted a minion dhf wt to a narrower rim? I have wtb asym i23 rims, wondering how they would effect tire performance...


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Duffman1976 said:


> I know it's not ideal but has anyone mounted a minion dhf wt to a narrower rim? I have wtb asym i23 rims, wondering how they would effect tire performance...


Use the normal Minion instead of the WT. Pretty simple! :thumbsup:


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

I just did so we'll see how it feels. This is my trial bike (coming from 29er) so I just have Flow EX's for now. The wide plastic wheels will wait to make sure I love 27.5. It doesn't seen any different than the old 2.5 just looking at it.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

hardboiled said:


> gtscoob, any idea if we'll see a 2.4 DHR2 in the Double Down casing soon? I'm running the 2.4 Exo DHR2s right now and like them a lot, nice size and tire profile on my i30 rims. Maybe the extra 100 grams over the 2.3 DHR2 gets the 2.4 a little closer to DD durability? I've had issues with punctures on the smaller tires in the Exo casing, but 900g seems to be about the sweet spot for me above which I haven't had many issues in the past. But I'm still holding back a bit while I feel things out with these.


I'm having the same issues with Exo out back 2.3 or 2.4. I too would love a 2.4 DD DHRII in dual compound. It makes sense.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Another damn puncture. I'm throwing every Exo tire I have in the bin. I've had enough. But the real problem is the availability of DD casing in Europe as in no one has a clue when they will get them, one LBS said 2017, hopefully. So Maxxis, it's divorce time. While you were too busy havng an affair with fat chicks and plus sized you COMPLETLY forgot to fill the voids on normal sized tires. So I have to go elsewhere. Sorry Maxxis, call me in 2018 when you have all casings and compounds ready. I.E a HARD compound for the REAR. I care less what your racers say or prefer. Their tires end up in the bin after race day and with 3C I l know why. 

Conti Der Baron? Everyone tells me there good, but what pairs well out back? They only have it in the black Chilli compound. God I don't want to deal with Schwalbe again so it's either Conti, Onza, or Michillen etc.? Fck it, Der Baron it is sight unseen. Now for the back.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

I'd love to hear if you find something even as robust as the Exo in a compound/tire that lasts. 

Sucks you can't find the DD stuff yet in Europe, as it's available here. Maybe eBay or something?


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

I am really happy with Michelin tires in its reinforced compound. They are over 1000gr but roll decently. Wild rock front and rear for the dry season and wild rock front and wild grip in the rear or both wheels wild grip in the wet season


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

Try Schwalbe in the Super Gravity casing. They're heavy, but very tough throughout the tread and sidewall. My problems with snakeskin Schwalbes have always been rock punctures between/against knobs in the tread, but the SG casing pretty much prevents that. 

Unfortunately for me, the weight of their 29r SG tires is prohibitive, for now at least. So I'm running a 2.4 dual compound DHR2 in the back. We'll see how long it lasts... Hopefully at least until Bontrager gets out the wider XR4.


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## roxtar (Sep 7, 2009)

Another great option is WTB. Their Breakout is my new favorite hard pack tire and is avail in the tough/fast casing.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

ban said:


> I am really happy with Michelin tires in its reinforced compound. They are over 1000gr but roll decently. Wild rock front and rear for the dry season and wild rock front and wild grip in the rear or both wheels wild grip in the wet season


So far I am liking what I read about these. Designed by Fabian Barel who has an Engineering degree plus he can ride a bike. The dream of hoping these light new (Exo) single ply tires can withstand the Alps has been crushed. To be fair they held up for the most part, never had a sidewall issue, but once you get the speed up they don't take too well to sharp rocks. The Alps are brutal on tires, plus my charge through like a hack line choices means I have lots of dead rubber I need to throw away. Pitty caused I loved a sub 1000g tire for long pedal days, however if they can't survive the downs then I have to go back to dual ply but tubless. The Michelins look mean. I like that. Looks like the wild rock will be my next new front. What's the rolling resistence like between the 'rock and the 'grip for a rear? And the braking traction between both?


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

I've seen you have created a new thread in the wheels forum...good info there...


Swissam said:


> So far I am liking what I read about these. Designed by Fabian Barel who has an Engineering degree plus he can ride a bike. The dream of hoping these light new (Exo) single ply tires can withstand the Alps has been crushed. To be fair they held up for the most part, never had a sidewall issue, but once you get the speed up they don't take too well to sharp rocks. The Alps are brutal on tires, plus my charge through like a hack line choices means I have lots of dead rubber I need to throw away. Pitty caused I loved a sub 1000g tire for long pedal days, however if they can't survive the downs then I have to go back to dual ply but tubless. The Michelins look mean. I like that. Looks like the wild rock will be my next new front. What's the rolling resistence like between the 'rock and the 'grip for a rear? And the braking traction between both?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Once you get into reinforced, the Grip'R adds another row of intermediate knobs that isn't there on the lighter casing models. I say intermediate, but it's a big, widely spaced knob on both left center and right center that probably makes a difference in all situations. The Grip'R does roll faster than the Rock'R and you'll notice it more in the rear as usual.

There's also a Wild Race'R enduro rear that looks like it is based on a prototype tire that Jerome Clementz raced for a few years... but I don't know anything about it other than he paired it with a variety of more aggressive front tires.


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## rockdude14 (Jul 7, 2006)

I've been doing a high roller 2 in the front and an ardent in the back (both 27.5x2.4) and feel like trying something new. Around me and on here the DHF and DHR 2 seems like a popular choice.

My rims are only 25mm and there's only the WT version for the 2.5 which is optimized for a 35mm rim. Any thoughts on whether I should just use that and go up to a 2.5WT or drop down to a 2.3?


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

rockdude14 said:


> I've been doing a high roller 2 in the front and an ardent in the back (both 27.5x2.4) and feel like trying something new. Around me and on here the DHF and DHR 2 seems like a popular choice.
> 
> My rims are only 25mm and there's only the WT version for the 2.5 which is optimized for a 35mm rim. Any thoughts on whether I should just use that and go up to a 2.5WT or drop down to a 2.3?


No brainer, stick with the 2.3 if using a that size rim.

Yeah, Maxxis tires are on the skinny side, but pro downhillers have been winning on 2.3s for years.


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## rockdude14 (Jul 7, 2006)

Thanks for the advice. Now I just need to narrow up all the other differences between me and other pro downhillers.


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Miker J said:


> No brainer, stick with the 2.3 if using a that size rim.
> 
> Yeah, Maxxis tires are on the skinny side, but pro downhillers have been winning on 2.3s for years.


Like when nobody rode wider tires?

I have seen a 2.5 WT DHF and a 2.4 WT DHR mounted on a Stan's flow. Looked fine and the rider said it rode well. I would not ride 2.3" Maxxis. Every time I tried that and went to wider tires afterwards, the difference was really clear. Narrow: Pings off stuff, not stable, less grip, less safe to ride at pressures you have grip at. Wider: Rolls over stuff, has grip while still safe against flats. No brainer.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

JeroenK said:


> Like when nobody rode wider tires?
> 
> I have seen a 2.5 WT DHF and a 2.4 WT DHR mounted on a Stan's flow. Looked fine and the rider said it rode well. I would not ride 2.3" Maxxis. Every time I tried that and went to wider tires afterwards, the difference was really clear. Narrow: Pings off stuff, not stable, less grip, less safe to ride at pressures you have grip at. Wider: Rolls over stuff, has grip while still safe against flats. No brainer.


The other issue is that Pros have not been riding the 2.3" tires. They've been riding the 2.5" wire bead tires prior to the introduction of the new 2.5 tubeless models, and probably since.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

ColinL said:


> The other issue is that Pros have not been riding the 2.3" tires. They've been riding the 2.5" wire bead tires prior to the introduction of the new 2.5 tubeless models, and probably since.


You are right. Even my DH bike has 2.5 DHFs. My bad.

Mentally I just can't think of Maxxis tires as real 2.5s.

Regarding the question about the rim with a i25, I'd still stay away from the WT flavor.

I've run the non-DH DHF as a 2.3 for AM/Enduro and it had plenty of grip.


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## rockdude14 (Jul 7, 2006)

I already ordered the DHR 2 non DH 2.3. The 2.4 ardent was a pretty similiar width compared to the 2.4 HR2. I'll use that for a comparison. Then decide what I want to do for the front.

I thought the rim width was 25 but just double checked (dt swiss m1900) and its actually 22.5. https://www.dtswiss.com/Wheels/MTB-Wheels/M-1900-Spline-27-en
Probably best I didnt go for the 2.5wt

I'm just starting to race so the DH versions would probably be overkill for me.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

rockdude14 said:


> I already ordered the DHR 2 non DH 2.3. The 2.4 ardent was a pretty similiar width compared to the 2.4 HR2. I'll use that for a comparison. Then decide what I want to do for the front.
> 
> I thought the rim width was 25 but just double checked (dt swiss m1900) and its actually 22.5. https://www.dtswiss.com/Wheels/MTB-Wheels/M-1900-Spline-27-en
> Probably best I didnt go for the 2.5wt
> ...


On my AM bike I've run the 2.3 on the Flow Ex, 275, i29. Just put a new dhr2 on a flow ex 2 days ago.

Even at a narrow 2.3 the non-DH DHF/dhr2 is a heck of a lot of tire. Last year I ran that set up on my M6 for a full week of lift assist at Tresstle and they worked very well. I weigh 180 plus gear.

For real DH gnar get the DH versions.


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## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

Miker J said:


> Regarding the question about the rim with a i25, I'd still stay away from the WT flavor.


Why? Have you tried it? I've heard good things from friends about the 2.5WT DHF EXO 3C, even on mid-width rims like Flows.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

juice said:


> Why? Have you tried it? I've heard good things from friends about the 2.5WT DHF EXO 3C, even on mid-width rims like Flows.


Because Maxxis designs certain width tires to be used with certain width rims. I've read where the wt is made for i35 rims or greater, if someone can confirm.

That said, I think this is a splitting hair issue. They are good tires in either width regardless of rim size within reason.

For example, I ran the 2.3 DHF for about a season, up front on a i34 rim for about a season. It was great and performance was limited by the operator, not the tire/rim combo.

The issue I have with the WT 2.5 flavor is that even the 2.3 is a really lot of tire to push around all day for pedally rides. And I bet the vast majority of riders are not pushing the 2.3 tire to its cornering limits. So, adding even more tire..

I'm not at all against the WT, and my plan is to run it in the DD on my i34 rim for week at Tresstle I have planned this summer.

I know the 2.3 is a great tire, and I'm sure the wt is too. They just have somewhat different applications.


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## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

Miker J said:


> The issue I have with the WT 2.5 flavor is that even the 2.3 is a really lot of tire to push around all day for pedally rides. And I bet the vast majority of riders are not pushing the 2.3 tire to its cornering limits. So, adding even more tire..


Try it before you knock it, and don't believe the marketing spin. Yeah, it's a little bit heavier, but a lot of us mourned the loss of the 2.5 single ply DHF when we switched to 27.5. The 2.35 is OK, but I've always thought the smaller side knobs weren't as supportive as the old 2.5. Now we have two amazing tires to choose from in single ply version. Mary and DHF 2.5. If the E.13 tire is as good as rumored, then we might even have a choice of 3. Finally.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

The Michelin Rock'R2 2.35 is the same width as a 2.5 DHF. I don't think I'm going back to single ply anytime soon. I liked the weight savings on long climbs but I didn't like the punctures. Plus having supportive sidewalls just feels awesome, not to mention how many times they've saved me from near disaster.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Miker J said:


> The issue I have with the WT 2.5 flavor is that even the 2.3 is a really lot of tire to push around all day for pedally rides. And I bet the vast majority of riders are not pushing the 2.3 tire to its cornering limits. So, adding even more tire.


The reason the DHF is popular isn't because a lot of riders push the tire to its performance limit... it's that the tire doesn't abruptly and surprisingly reach its limit before the rider does. The wider variant is even a touch better about that.
Having options like the MagicMary Supergravity, Rock'R2, Bonty G5, Butcher Grid, and the like shows that tire makers have figured out riders want good consistent grip out front, even if it's slightly at the expense of rolling resistance.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The new Vittoria Morsa is a great tire. I'm running 27.5 x 2.3 TNT front and back on LB 38mm rims. Very happy in both vertical directions.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

im running 650b front dhf 2x5 WT EXO 3C and rear Aggressor 2.3 EXO dual compound on my LB 40mm with cushcore installed on both wheels.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Prophet Julio said:


> The new Vittoria Morsa is a great tire. I'm running 27.5 x 2.3 TNT front and back on LB 38mm rims. Very happy in both vertical directions.


I am extremely happy with the Morsa as well, and it's probably one of the best 26" tires available. It has performed wonderfully on hardpack, loose over hard, rocky, and light mud. The low knobs don't have a ton of grip in the mud, but they shed well, and so they're hooking up better than a tire that packs up.

They roll extremely fast, brake and corner at the limit very well. They do not do mild lean angles well at all because there's a huge void area like a Maxxis HR2. I saw in another thread someone complaining the Morsa cornered horribly. Each person rides in their own way, but if you don't get a good amount of lean angle, you will not enjoy the Morsa because there are no intermediate knobs. (Or Goma - very similar design.) This is probably part of the reason they roll fast.


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## Whip Chop! (Apr 27, 2007)

My new favorite combo is the e thirteen trs + rear and e thirteen trs race front. Great wear and amazing grip. The casing seems a little more robust than an exo but not so heavy as a super gravity. I feel like they combine all the best qualities of the dhf, Magic Mary and trail king (volume).


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Whip Chop! said:


> My new favorite combo is the e thirteen trs + rear and e thirteen trs race front. Great wear and amazing grip. The casing seems a little more robust than an exo but not so heavy as a super gravity. I feel like they combine all the best qualities of the dhf, Magic Mary and trail king (volume).


These are really nice tires and I agree, although I'm running the front only for now. It's a bit heavy at 950 gms for both f&r for me, although I'm probably not calibrated enough to feel the actual rolling resistance. I'm running a Maxxis SS rear for now.


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## Noyac (Apr 4, 2013)

rave81 said:


> im running 650b front dhf 2x5 WT EXO 3C and rear Aggressor 2.3 EXO dual compound on my LB 40mm with cushcore installed on both wheels.


How is the Cushcore working for you? I have it in the rear only.


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

Already have Minion's wheelset for some BP and Continental TrailKing ProTection Apex 2.4 for everyday (some my local easy dry trails + to get there through city).
Conti are makimg me crazy because of their sidewalls, air-leaking all the time and none of sealants or any hints help.

So, new tires:
Onza (which one - https://onza-tires.com/tires/?size=27-5inch&type=mtb ?)
or
Shwalbe Magic Mary Evolution ADDIX Soft SnakeSkin 2.35 (11600539.02)

??


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