# Manitou Mcleod Rear Shock



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So I have been a big fan of Manitou for the last few years as they have really stepped up in their customer service when I have needed it. My first interaction with them was a few years ago when I first built up my hardtail and installed a Manitou Tower Pro 100mm. This was the first year it came out so it came with the MEDIUM stiffness spring which I quickly found out was not quite sufficient for my 200lbs riding weight. Quick call from my LBS and $100 later for the new FIRM spring and install and I was good to go.

Throughout the life of the fork/bike I have been in contact with Manitou with regards to tuning the fork and they have always been super responsive even at one point getting a call from Ed Katowski (sp?) one of their lead suspension design engineers. He spent well over an hour on the phone with me on tuning the fork for my riding conditions and style and even worked with another member on the forums here to develop a CLYDE specific spring which they ultimately released.

Last year I built a new FS 29er Trail bike specifically because the steel HT was killing my back on longer rides, which I love doing. Unfortunately the reviews of the LONGER Tower Pro where not that great as most felt there was quite a bit of lateral flex in the fork making it feel noodly. I found a deal I couldn't pass up on a 140mm RS Rev and haven't looked back.

However, the one downfall (in my opinion) of the bike was the Fox Float CTD with Trail Adjust (Boost valve). While specifically tuned for this bike after less than half a season of riding the CTD stopped functioning and I began to have the same give in all settings no matter what I did. Talking with FOX they did not feel it was a warranty issue and rather that I had hit the 100hr threshold for the rebuild cycle (which I think is BS). Fox wanted me to fork out $180+ to have it rebuilt and thus the search began. Knowing that the Manitou Mcleod was due out late last season (2014) I was patiently waiting for it to show up on retail websites only never finding it.

After a quick email to Manitou I found out that they had run into some production issues with one of their suppliers and on top of that were having and INCREDIBLE demand for the shock from their OE spec companies. Anyways a couple weeks ago I noticed it on CRC for a jaw dropping $280 shipped!!!

I ordered one on Saturday and paid the extra $20 to have it shipped via express DHL so it will be here on Wednesday or Thursday. There are ZERO reviews of this shock so I will do my best to document everything I can on it. I purchased mine in the 190mm x 50mm for my frame. I have never done a full-blown review before but plan to do as much as I can with this so if you have suggestions on writing stuff or something you would specifically like to see let me know (either on here or via PM).

In the mean time, I have contacted Manitou to see if there is rebuild documentation on the shock so that I can possibly give it a whirl on my own.

For now.....
The bike.
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/next-build-hammerhead-thumper-911051.html
Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

In my build thread there are examples of the trails I ride and living in No. Nevada I have access to everything in Lake Tahoe within an hour. This bike has seen everything from mild, flowing singletrack to more DH oriented rides like Mr. Toad's Wild Ride in South Lake Tahoe, CA or the Emerald Mountain in Steamboat Springs, CO. My normal trails are right next to my office so I ride them CONSTANTLY and have a good variety of fast and flowy singletrack to somewhat (mild) technical descents.

Again I will post more when I get the shock, install it and get first rides in.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Here is the link for the product page on Manitou's website

Their page does include Rebound and Damping Curve Graphs.

The shock got here this afternoon, now just to get time to install it (probably this weekend).
Initial impressions are the shock is very well made, machining is good and there are no sharp corners and the M seems to be actually etched into the can.

Knobs all have very good feel to them moving smoothly but firmly. The IPA knob has what seems to be 4 different detent positions but definitely feels like it could have five with a small bit more movement. The blue rebound knob has not detents but is very firm and seems to stay in place.

Overall weight according to my kitchen scale was a tick over 9oz (about 255g) but feels pretty light in hand. I plan on using the current FOX hardware to mount unless I run into problems then I will get new hardware as there are no issues with my bearings.

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Saved for installation and first impressions.

So went and had my LBS press out the stock bushings on the McLeod after talking with Dougal some. Literally took them 2 minutes (longer to find the tool than to get them out) and $5 to get it done.

When I got home I did like Dougal said and used a knife to wedge between the edge of the bushing and the side of the shock and just worked it out. Once I got it far enough out they pulled out with a little force with my fingernails.

After they were out I was able to easily press them in on the Manitou without issue, then the spacers went on and the shock mounted up with ZERO issue!!!!

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

Pressure was initially set at 150psi from the factory but when I sat on the bike it felt REAL stiff. Checked the sag with my Saggle and maybe had 10% sag... So dropped the pressure some to 125psi and that is right about 25% sag in the full open (Aggressive Descend) position. This feels COMPLETELY different than the FOX did but I am going to attribute that to the new shock with ZERO hours on it.

When I set the shock to Trail Mode it had pretty decent give to it. Platform was a bit stiffer than the full open but not overly stiff. Seemed pretty comparable to Trail mode in the FOX. Then I set to Technical Climb (Trail Mode 2 I am calling it) and the got quite a bit stiffer with the platform ramping up pretty quickly. The final setting, Aggressive climb, is complete lockout in the sense that the shock will normally move about 5-15% but requires some serious input to move past that.

Tomorrow will be the first ride on the new shock so I will play with the rebound and what not, unfortunately there are not detent positions for the rebound so it will be all by feel.

Oh and FYI there are NO setup instructions in the box or on the site so this is definitely going to be a tweak and tune scenario.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Yes, very interested in your impressions of the shock. Also, did you really pay $100 for the firm spring and install?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

I look forward to your review. I read Dougal's short review and he was very impressed.
Can you post a picture of the shock when you get it? I'm interested in its remote capability.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Vespasianus said:


> Yes, very interested in your impressions of the shock. Also, did you really pay $100 for the firm spring and install?


It was something like that.... I did other stuff at that time too so wasn't just those two things (that would be a rip-off). But I did have my LBS do it because 1) the Tower took the special Semi-Bath oil which I didn't have regular oil let alone that, and 2) I was not comfortable taking the fork apart myself.



yogiprophet said:


> I look forward to your review. I read Dougal's short review and he was very impressed.
> Can you post a picture of the shock when you get it? I'm interested in its remote capability.


Plan on taking plenty of pics of the shock and what not once I get it. Also, can you link Dougal's short review. I thought I remembered reading a short review on it somewhere but for the life of me could not find one so thought it must have been my imagination.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

gregnash said:


> Plan on taking plenty of pics of the shock and what not once I get it. Also, can you link Dougal's short review. I thought I remembered reading a short review on it somewhere but for the life of me could not find one so thought it must have been my imagination.


Sure, here it is.
Manitou Evolver ISX-6 vs Revox shim stack- Mtbr.com


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Thanks for the info, that was the one I was thinking of and excited to get mine. 


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Have you got four or five clicks on your IPA knob?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Havent actually received it yet but will let you know once I do.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

ive had this shock on my giant trance for a few months now, paid $250 OTD from my local LBS, sometimes it pays to check there first. anyway, I installed a mattoc fork on the front and wanted to match the shock. had a fox rp23 which was ok, didn't really let me down but didn't do anything amazing for me either. so I got the mcloud and the mattoc dialed in with base setting and took the bike for a spin. the rear shock felt much more solid than the rp23. I purposely hit a few 3-4ft kickers and tried to land it hard to see how it would react. never bottomed out, im 175-180ish geared up. pedaling felt great. maestro is a thing of beauty as it is but it really felt like a hardtail when laying the power down and felt extremely controlled and supple over the baby gnar I encountered. weather here has been pure **** for the past few months so I don't have a ton of miles on it but initial impressions are good and that for 250 this shock is a killer value as long as durability is good


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

@obs08 - post up some pics of everything!

I am 190lbs outta the shower and about 200lbs kitted up with my hydro pack. My feelings are about the same as your with your RP23, the Float has worked (if that is what you call it) but really hasn't impressed me. After riding yesterday I was talking with my buddy and saying how it now feels like I just sink into the bike when I am just sitting pedaling. I actually thought that I had a flat at first but tire was just fine, then I thought maybe I had lost a bunch of pressure but the pressure is still at 180psi like the day I set it with about 30% sag.

I think it is kinda BS that FOX requires a rebuild at 100hrs of riding to keep your warranty. Talking with my buddy he has never actually had his NUDE rebuilt on his Scott Genius and thinks it works just fine. I let him ride mine and he even said it just felt weird, like a low tire or something on a car that was just slightly dragging. 

Anyways, I look forward to getting the McLeod and then if I can only persuade Manitou to release a 29er version of the Mattoc, that would be stellar!

EDIT: Oh and I did try to go through my LBS to get me the shock but they did not have an account with Manitou direct (nor did they want to set one up) and their distributor was telling them that they would not be available until April or May sometime.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

oh man that sucks about the lbs, I gave them a BTI part number and he got it within a couple days. ill grab a couple pics when I get home tonight. youll like the shock for sure. it cost me almost $100 less than the rp23 I had on there and it feels way ahead. not a crazy amount of adjustments but to me it just feels right and works well. I don't think its worth paying double for a CC inline which was my other option


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks for the thread. Just ordered one for myself so I'm looking forward to your impressions.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

obs08 said:


> oh man that sucks about the lbs, I gave them a BTI part number and he got it within a couple days. ill grab a couple pics when I get home tonight. youll like the shock for sure. it cost me almost $100 less than the rp23 I had on there and it feels way ahead. not a crazy amount of adjustments but to me it just feels right and works well. I don't think its worth paying double for a CC inline which was my other option


Yeah figuring that I can sell the Float and pay for half the McLeod. I am more of a set and forget type person so this sounds like it will be great. I have left my shock in the trail mode the entire time.

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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Subscribing..... been waiting to hear more about this shock.

Does the rebound only have 4 clicks? Looking at the damping graph on manitous site makes it appear that way.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Subscribing..... been waiting to hear more about this shock.
> 
> Does the rebound only have 4 clicks? Looking at the damping graph on manitous site makes it appear that way.


No clicks on rebound. It's smooth for the whole rotation.

I just took the knobs off mine for a look. Yes they've been designed to fit a return spring in there for remote operation of the IPA.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> No clicks on rebound. It's smooth for the whole rotation.
> 
> I just took the knobs off mine for a look. Yes they've been designed to fit a return spring in there for remote operation of the IPA.


I guess that makes sense with the graph as well. Knob pretty stiff yo hold its placem


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> I guess that makes sense with the graph as well. Knob pretty stiff yo hold its placem


Just enough resistance to hold it's place. They turn easily with finger tips.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Updated second post with pics and initial unboxing.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Looks great!
Now I'm all excited to get mine. Probably be here before the weekend if past performance from Chain Reaction is any indication. Always quick to get to the east coast.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Well unfortunately it looks like I wont be able to use my Fox mounting hardware. The eyelet size is the same between both shock, apparently uses standard 12.7mm, however the Manitou comes with bushings installed where my Fox has what looks like delrin bushing/spacer combo and then black spacers on the outside. Not sure if I can press those out or not but I do not have the special tool to remove the bushing. Talking with Scott at Switchback Bikes on recommendations, really dont want to spend another $100 for the du bushing tool and new bearings to go along with it.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gregnash said:


> Well unfortunately it looks like I wont be able to use my Fox mounting hardware. The eyelet size is the same between both shock, apparently uses standard 12.7mm, however the Manitou comes with bushings installed where my Fox has what looks like delrin bushing/spacer combo and then black spacers on the outside. Not sure if I can press those out or not but I do not have the special tool to remove the bushing. Talking with Scott at Switchback Bikes on recommendations, really dont want to spend another $100 for the du bushing tool and new bearings to go along with it.


Punch the Manitou DU bushings out and the FOX hardware will fit.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So how do you get the white/cream colored bushings from the fox out or are you saying just get new ones?

If so these are the ones you are talking about in what looks to be the appropriate size of m8x22.2mm. 

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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gregnash said:


> So how do you get the white/cream colored bushings from the fox out or are you saying just get new ones?
> 
> If so these are the ones you are talking about in what looks to be the appropriate size of m8x22.2mm.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


These?









Get a knife blade in the gap between the shaft head and the collar of the bushing and twist, then get your finger-nails in. They pull out pretty easy.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah those were what I was talking about. Ok will give that a try tomorrow. 


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

You might be able to use sockets to press out the du bushing. If not, RS makes a tool that is cheap or have the lbs do it for a few bucks.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah don't want to risk messing it up myself by building a ghetto tool and did see that RS one on Amazon for like $20. I will buy that tool but am going to call my LBS and see if I can have them do it real quick on my lunch break or after work. 

I did find what looked to be the proper bushings last night while searching around on the internet but they were $18/ea, which really makes me then wonder if it would not be better just to switch to the needle bearings offered by RWC, since really you are already half way to the cost. Even going with a FOX based alternative is going to cost about $15/ea (if not more) so again with the RWC bearings being $30/ea will I see that much better performance from the needle bearings?


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

gregnash said:


> Yeah don't want to risk messing it up myself by building a ghetto tool and did see that RS one on Amazon for like $20. I will buy that tool but am going to call my LBS and see if I can have them do it real quick on my lunch break or after work.
> 
> I did find what looked to be the proper bushings last night while searching around on the internet but they were $18/ea, which really makes me then wonder if it would not be better just to switch to the needle bearings offered by RWC, since really you are already half way to the cost. Even going with a FOX based alternative is going to cost about $15/ea (if not more) so again with the RWC bearings being $30/ea *will I see that much better performance from the needle bearings?*


They'll work a little better but I bet there aren't many people that would even be able to tell much difference between bearings and properly adjusted and lubed bushings. 
There simply isn't enough rotation of the shock pivots IMO to make that much of an impact in performance between the two. 
The upside of the bearings for me would be the fact that they're sealed. Unsealed bushings allow dirt ingress and need more periodic maintenance. No big deal, seeing as they take about 10 minutes to service.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah see I am new to FS bikes so maintenance on stuff like pivots and bushings is not something I am completely aware of or know how to do properly. I do see where you are talking about the possibility of dirt ingress but really don't know if it is worth the extra $30+ for the needle bearings vs. standard bushing hardware.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

gregnash said:


> Yeah see I am new to FS bikes so maintenance on stuff like pivots and bushings is not something I am completely aware of or know how to do properly. I do see where you are talking about the possibility of dirt ingress but really don't know if it is worth the extra $30+ for the needle bearings vs. standard bushing hardware.


 Personally I'm going with Manitou bushings on mine. If I don't care for the performance I'll upgrade and have the bushings for when the rollers inevitably wear out or fail.
When you install your new shock you'll see how simple it is to service the pivots.

I've been looking out the window whenever I hear a delivery truck-like sound. Really looking forward to this upgrade!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I had it on for a quick minute and sat on the bike, can definitely feel a platform difference between it and the Fox. In the full lockout mode the fox would still move quite a bit but the McLeod barely moves. Rest of the action is all very stiff but smooth at the same time and you can feel the difference.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

gregnash said:


> I did find what looked to be the proper bushings last night while searching around on the internet but they were $18/ea, which really makes me then wonder if it would not be better just to switch to the needle bearings offered by RWC, since really you are already half way to the cost. Even going with a FOX based alternative is going to cost about $15/ea (if not more) so again with the RWC bearings being $30/ea will I see that much better performance from the needle bearings?


The new Fox bushings are the way to go. Your linkage won't benefit much from needle bearings.


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## greenblur (May 7, 2011)

My Santa Cruz has a decent amount of rotation at the shock and needle bearings improved the feel a lot. Tried them on my Niner, which doesn't have as much rotation and it didn't seem to make a difference. 

Recently picked up a Swinger and really like it. Interested to hear about the McLeod as my Niner can't take a piggyback shock.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Well that was easy, literally took me longer to drive to the shop than for them to take the bushings out. So 2 minutes and $5 later I can now place the Fox bushings in. I will do that tonight when I get home.


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## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

gregnash said:


> .... I do see where you are talking about the possibility of dirt ingress but really don't know if it is worth the extra $30+ for the needle bearings vs. standard bushing hardware.


Its worth replacing lower bushing with needle bearing on our bikes. I felt huge difference when I did mine. Upper does not move as much so bushing is perfectly fine there.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

I really appreciate the great information from this thread.

I agree about the needle bearings. You really only need one since one side of the shock has such little movement and the DU bushing there lasts twice as long. The other side moves faster and more rotation than the main pivots of the suspension which mostly all use bearings not bushings (except for Turner which are a major fukin PITA).

I didn't know one could use the new Fox bushings on Manitou. I thought they had different diameters.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Nope apparently with the newer (according to their site 2011+) they went to the industry standard of 12.7mm ID. So once I got the old bushing pressed out by my LBS the new went right in like butta. Shock is on now.

Oh and updated 3rd post with installation stuff.
First ride will be tomorrow!! So stoked.... now if they would make a 29er version of the Mattoc....


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

*First Ride Impressions......*

Ok first ride review time....

So on Friday when I got the bushing issues figured out I installed the shock and played with it in my driveway. I was basically just checking out how things felt and adjusting the rebound. I eventually found what felt like a good scenario and scheduled a ride with my buddy today (he had other things going on). The reason that I wanted him with me is that I was going to have him follow me and let me know how things were looking/reacting as we went over different terrain.

*My initial settings are as follow:*
Me: 203lbs completely kitted up with helmet and hydro pack that had 2L of water. Pack has spare tire, mini pump, shock pump, my phone, keys and other odds and ends.
Bike: weighs in at 31.2lbs with pedals and heavy GEAX TNT front tire.

*Shock settings:*
*Rebound:* Does not have any detents to show where you are, there are 2 full rotations of the blue knob between full slow (+) and full fast (-). Full fast felt very very responsive but did not launch me from the seat at all. Rolling off the curbs on full fast (-) it would instantly hit the ground and hit it with authority, full slow (+) you could definitely tell it took the bike a moment to react and come back up. I tried both settings, at extremes, both sitting and standing and sitting is where I really noticed the difference.

My setting that I felt was a decent compromise to start with was the dead middle, one full turn from full fast (-).
Shock: (IPA) Platform level has four very distinct positions; 
*Aggressive Descend*: full open and squishy!
*Trail Control*: Trail setting that is not quite full open but still
pretty squishy.
*Technical Climb*: Decent amount of platform added for trail
climbs that have rocks, roots, etc.
*Aggressive Climb*: Basically full lockout
Air pressure was initially set at 150psi from the factory but when I got on the bike it felt REAL stiff no matter what setting the IPA was on. I measured the sag with my SAGGLE and literally it did not even register. I decided to drop the air pressure down and build it back up so I started at 120psi and measured. That gave me about 25% sag which is about where I like it (I like the rear a bit harder than the front). So with that set I left it there.

*Ride Impressions and Review*
This morning I went for a ride on our normal trails however I am going to have to redo the test as we were having 15-20mph winds with gusts into the 30s and 40s. There was one point where I came over a rock on a climb and was hit by a gust that knocked me over, yeah that bad (literally fell off the bike).

We hit our normal route which is about six miles with a variety of terrain, climbs, elevation gain/loss and what not. Out of the gate you have a good 1.5 miles of climbing that is everything from hardpack to rocky trail to sand. In the climb I left the shock in the Aggressive Climb mode and logged some info when we got to our normal stopping point. My buddy said that the entire time he did not see the shock bob more than a few millimeters and this was 85% seated climbing.

Next section of trail was some steep climbs with a couple switchbacks, climbs varying in degree of difficulty and technicality. For this I switched the IPA to Technical Climb and had my buddy watch. Again he said that the shock definitely moved a bit more but was not moving much at all for what we were doing.

After that we have a short, twisty turny downhill section of flowy singletrack which I left the shock in the Technical Climb position. Reason for this is because the downhill is maybe 3/4 of a mile and then turns into a couple hundred yards of fireroad climb. During this section I was hitting different undulations, bumps, small jumps and rocks and the entire time it felt as though my ass was FIRMLY planted to the ground.

At the top of the first road climb starts the next section, Creek Trail, which is a little over a mile long but all gravity fed downhill. This has everything from flowing turns, two rock garden chutes, a couple of sand pits, bridges and lots and LOTS of speed and fun!!!! This section is my absolute FAVORITE ride and during the fall it is filled with Aspen trees that are changing color making for pure elation. I switched the IPA to the Descend on this and let her rip! No matter what I went over, down, through or whatever I felt completely in contact with the ground the entire time, couple of jumps that I have felt like the rear was reaching out to grab the ground before I knew it was there. Really impressed with the response on this section and just how connected I felt with the trail.

Once out of this section then it is a short half mile climb to the next flowy section of down hill and the last 1.5ish miles of trail. There is a short climb to get to the top and again all gravity fed downhill, not quite as much as the Creek Trail but you can get going REAL fast on this section. For here I throw her into Trail Control and let her rip. This is mostly loose over hard singletrack that has a few rocks and roots thrown in there but really that is maybe 10% of the trail, the rest is....well... just trail. Here the shock just flat performed, I felt just as connected as I did with the Creek Trail section but I actually had platform when I did need to stand and pedal a bit. The few small bumps or drops I went off felt like the rear end was instantly on the ground grabbing tracking and amazingly enough my buddy and I picked up a PR on this section today?! I figured that we were going to be slower because it felt like we were going almost directly into the wind here but apparently not. At the very end of this section there is a decent jump that you can hit. Previously with the FOX I had to make sure to really put my feet down before I got to far in the air so that I wouldnt over rotate and hit nose first. Today I hit that ***** and it felt like I never left the ground but my buddy said that was the second most air he has seen me get there.

Here is a pic of travel that is being utilized. Looks like I still have about 10mm of travel left to use so I am going to mess with the sag/psi some more and see if I cant get it down all the way. With the FOX I was using every bit of travel, ring was just about to come off the cylinder body.

Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

All-in-all today was a great ride, aside from the sucky wind which will hopefully be gone tomorrow. While I never felt that the FOX was a horrible shock it just felt....well... meh. With the McLeod I felt more connected with the ground and felt like the bike responded better than it ever has. So if the next few rides go like this I am sold on the McLeod. According to the Manitou manual the shock needs approximately 20hrs of break-in time to properly get everything going so I have my work cut out for me in the coming weeks but I have a feeling it will be ready for Sedona when I go there at the end of April!!! Color me impressed today!!

Oh and as a side note, I got an email back from Manitou and apparently they are in production of the maintenance videos for the shock. Their plan is that YES this will be a customer serviceable shock for normal wear stuff with more major rebuilds something that have not decided on yet.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok update for today... 

Did same trail as above however I decided to lower the psi in the shock simply because of the remaining travel I was seeing. I lowered the shock to 110psi and the same exact setup of trails with switching the IPA in the same areas. Buddy rode with me again and said that he could see a slight difference but nothing huge.

He said he could tell in the Aggressive Climb (lockout) that I had a slight bit more give in the shock than before. I could feel a slight difference going over bumps, rocks and whatnot in the trail but nothing ground breaking or severely different. 

Once we got to the Creek Trail section I made sure to switch into Aggressive Descend (wide open) and let her rip.. Same thing as yesterday, rear end stayed planted the entire time but did feel like it absorbed stuff a bit better. Main difference was felt on larger hits where I felt like the ramp up towards the end was not quite as quick. This was a bit more linear ramp than I felt yesterday, still very supple though still does not feel harsh to me at all.

Between this section and the last flowy section he said that he could definitely see that the rear end did everything it could to keep itself planted to the ground. We had his trail dog with us today so we had more frequent stops (water the pooch) to discuss. He did say that going over one of the smaller rock jumps on the Creek Trail that he watched me take off the jump and before I could push my heels for the landing the rear end was already making its move. He is thinking I may have the rebound set a bit too fast but the responsiveness feels good and I do not feel like it is packing up or anything. 

With the reduced psi I am now getting what looks like full travel (couple of millimeters between the end of the shaft and the ring (about half to 2/3 of the distance in the pic above). Small bump compliance on this thing is still great, never felt like I was sagging way into the travel (the FOX felt like I had a flat tire at 180psi) and definitely has much better feel. 

So I think I may try dropping to 100psi to see what happens when I ride next. I have never felt like I am bottoming out or even close for that matter. I will double-check the sag on the shock with 110psi in it (did not do that) and then make adjustments. Like I said earlier, I like a more firm rear suspension and softer front suspension (how Fabian Barel has his bikes setup). Once I find the limit of the shock then I will add PSI until I find my good compromise sweet spot. But all in all still very impressed with the handling of the shock.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks for the excellent review! It'll give me some insight as to what to expect when I get mine.
Hasn't arrived yet.  But it's been 6 days with a weekend thrown in so I expect probably today or tomorrow and I'll be messing with mine.

So is this the official Mcleod shock thread? It'll be a while before mine can hit the trails due to there still being a foot and a half of snow on them (then ice, then mud, then ride!) but I could throw some pics and impressions up here? Or start my own "Hey Mcleod, get off of my ewe" (or something almost as catchy) thread.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

@barman1 - Feel free to add what you want when you get yours and can ride. I have no problem with making this an "official" thread. I plan to add information as I go along and find different things out, like if 100psi will be enough for my riding without bottoming out or feeling like I am wallowing.

Once I get set on a setup (probably in the next week or so) I plan on then just racing to the proposed "break-in" point of 20hrs. From there I will put up periodic reviews on how I feel the shock does and whatnot. 

Would a video of the trails I am riding along with a Strava link be of interest in this? For me and my analytics side it would be so that I could see what is being talked about but that is just me.

Oh and if you ordered yours from CRC you should be getting it shortly, everyone says that they really do have fast shipping even on their free shipping (site said 4-8 business days for me) but if you have that much snow (please send some our way) then it may be a bit before you can really ride.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

gregnash said:


> @barman1 - Feel free to add what you want when you get yours and can ride. I have no problem with making this an "official" thread. I plan to add information as I go along and find different things out, like if 100psi will be enough for my riding without bottoming out or feeling like I am wallowing.
> 
> Once I get set on a setup (probably in the next week or so) I plan on then just racing to the proposed "break-in" point of 20hrs. From there I will put up periodic reviews on how I feel the shock does and whatnot.
> 
> ...


You know the answer to that. Everyone likes video. :thumbsup:

I've ordered through CRC quite a bit but for some reason this is the first time I got the free shipping?? That's why it's taking a bit longer I expect. 
No problem though, I'm in no rush and they've always treated me well.

And there's more snow on the way this weekend. Not helpful. :madman:


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

I was sweating it a little but received the shock yesterday.
Simple install as expected and the Manitou bushings have less stick than the stock Fox polymer(?) bushings. When torqued properly the Fox bushings didn't move freely at all.
The Manitou is 1.9 oz heavier than the Float CTD but hopefully that little extra weight equates to something positive. 
I'm expecting it will. Larger range of adjustment and already feels stiffer and more progressive through its travel at lower pressure.
Can't wait to put it through its paces. Just waiting for some better conditions before I put this bike on the trail. I'm riding my Highball till then. Only want to rebuild one bike after mud season is over.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Nice dude... you wont be disappointed. I have been down with a sinus infection for the last week so yesterday was the first time I have been out on the bike in a week. Ride was real mellow as a buddy just moved back into town, hasn't ridden since the last time he and I rode which was 3yrs ago and his bike is still in Virginia so he is borrowing my Inbred HT 29er for the time being. Getting him reacquainted with the trails. But as we were riding we hit the halfway point (did pretty much the normal ride I have done with the McLeod) and realized I had it in full open the entire time and never noticed, granted I did not stand and mash the pedals at any point nor were we going hard but quite impressed that I never felt like I was sagging way into the suspension or bobbing like crazy while pedaling.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Subscribed... Currently deciding on if I should push the ctd on my Norco or go with the McLeod. Thanks for all the updates!


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

obs08 said:


> oh man that sucks about the lbs, I gave them a BTI part number and he got it within a couple days. ill grab a couple pics when I get home tonight. youll like the shock for sure. it cost me almost $100 less than the rp23 I had on there and it feels way ahead. not a crazy amount of adjustments but to me it just feels right and works well. I don't think its worth paying double for a CC inline which was my other option


My LBS told me $320 (which is retail cost) from BTI so you must have a lot more pull than the normal customer.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok so got out for a LONG ride today with some very sustained and flowy downhill. Total ride time was little over 2hrs and 16 miles with 2300' of elevation change. All in all a great ride and it was the first time my buddy and I have put this loop together with a new trail section. 

For the 5 miles worth of climbing we did I had the bike locked out and did not once feel like I had any issues with pedal bob. This included some short and seriously steep sections and sustained sections of fireroad climbing with some standing and mashing pedals as this was the first ride for both of us in over a weeks time (and me coming off a sinus infection/cold).

Once we got to the fun part I went ahead and flipped the lever to full descend figuring that the small sections of climbing that we would have were short enough to not warrant me flipping out of descend. All I can say is damn, the shock responded incredibly, platform and ramp up were very supple and kept trail features in traction all the time. In one section my buddy was right on my tail and watching the shock and he said that he could definitely see it moving and working but did not think he ever saw my rear wheel leave the ground unless I was hopping or doing a jump. We ended up getting a number of PRs on Strava today with a majority of them being on the newer section of trails (which we have only ridden a handful of times). 

Still utterly impressed with this shock and the responsiveness that I get from it now. Like I have said in the past, the FOX was ok but always just felt kinda Meh.. This on the other hand seems to actively work and keep my rear planted but still seems to offer and incredibly plush ride no matter what setting I am in or if that is the correct one for the section I am doing. I will plan to update periodically from now on with how it is doing.

If you have gotten a McLeod and put it on your bike feel free to chime in with your settings and PSI and riding impressions. For me, color me impressed and sold! FOX is going up on ebay tomorrow.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Figured I would throw my Strava up from Saturday. This is the clockwise route of the connector which requires a lot of road climbing but after that is nothing more than an awesome sustained downhill with only a few pedaly sections.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Thanks for the thorough review. I am curious how the McLeod compares to the new Fox. Right away I see how much the bank account like the Manitou.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Tagging this thread as I will most likely be ordering one next week.

Thanks for all the info!


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Keeping my eyes on this and the Vorsprung Suspension corset air sleeve for the Fox. 


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

MTBMILES said:


> Keeping my eyes on this and the Vorsprung Suspension corset air sleeve for the Fox.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's only so much you can do with an air-sleeve. It is the damper that makes or breaks the ride.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Got it today. Hoping to get out for a ride tomorrow, if not it will be Sunday afternoon.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Nice alphajaguars you will have to let us know what your thoughts are on it. I took mine to Sedona last week and did freaking great. Still incredibly impressed with this shock and cannot recommend it enough. 


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Been eyeballing this shock but there isn't a lot of info / reviews available. One with some info : SOC14: Manitou McLeod Rear Shock Digs Up Massive Adjustability in Modern Air Platform . I decided to call Manitou and ask a few questions about the shock. I asked if the air volume was adjustable via spacers, different cans etc. There response was it was too new... Is it really that new? I asked a few more general questions but had similar answers. I currently have a Tower fork & Prime brakes so I have experience w/ Manitou Hayes CS. My current fox RP23 lacks support (wallows) & is a bit harsh on high speed trail chatter. Would like a supportive compliant shock that isn't soft like a marshmallow but not stiff as a hardtail.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

keen said:


> Been eyeballing this shock but there isn't a lot of info / reviews available. One with some info : SOC14: Manitou McLeod Rear Shock Digs Up Massive Adjustability in Modern Air Platform . I decided to call Manitou and ask a few questions about the shock. I asked if the air volume was adjustable via spacers, different cans etc. There response was it was too new... Is it really that new? I asked a few more general questions but had similar answers. I currently have a Tower fork & Prime brakes so I have experience w/ Manitou Hayes CS. My current fox RP23 lacks support (wallows) & is a bit harsh on high speed trail chatter. Would like a supportive compliant shock that isn't soft like a marshmallow but not stiff as a hardtail.


Yes it really is that new. I have one of the first 20 shocks and only received it late last year.
It has been engineered to take everything. Including remotes. But the accessories aren't available yet.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Wow! I thought it had been out for almost a year.

Question - what psi are you running? There was no lit with it that gave me an idea what they have designed it around. Not even an idea on sag.

I weigh about 187 kitted out.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

They released it last year at SOC14 but there were some production issues and the initial plan of late summer release was scrapped. I was able to finally grab one off CRC in Feb '15 when I noticed them show up. Talking with my LBS they were showing a late MAY '15 release date from their distributor and for them they said that would probably be a close stretch. 

So I buckled and decided to grab from CRC. I am 203ish kitted up (193ish out of the shower to I add 10lbs for kit) and I am running my 190x51mm version at 110psi. That psi seems to be pretty good but may bump it back up to see if it stiffens up the initial feel but does not lose the small bump compliance. For me there has been ZERO need to even think about volume adjustment or anything like that. I have a feeling that if you did grab one you would be impressed at the low psi and still great compliance all around of the shock without it feeling harsh or overly stiff.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

I'd hazard a guess and say I grabbed one of the first available then as my LBS told me 2 weeks ago they weren't available, and then last week they were.

I am running the 157x32. No idea if that means I'd have to run higher psi or not. Raining today, so not going to get out on it until Sunday.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

I ended up just getting my fox push tuned but I will be purchasing a McLeod later this summer because I really want to tinker with one.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

For the 157x32 I don't know that it will necessarily mean you will have to run more pressure. I think it come down to setup for your bike and you. For me the 190x50 has been phenomenal at 110psi but as I said before I may bump up to 115 or 120psi to see if I can notice any difference. 


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

gregnash said:


> For the 157x32 I don't know that it will necessarily mean you will have to run more pressure. I think it come down to setup for your bike and you. For me the 190x50 has been phenomenal at 110psi but as I said before I may bump up to 115 or 120psi to see if I can notice any difference.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm 215 running my Superlight 29 single pivot with the Mcleod at around 120 psi with good results. At 110 psi I had too much sag. 
I like mine to be set it and forget it so I do run pressures a little high so there will be no bottoming and a firmer ride for my XC to AM, all hills, rocks and roots.
So far I'm having great luck with the Mcleod rear and Tower Pro up front. I'm powering through sections that had me off the bike in the past and there's no difference in me. Still the same exact weight, just another season older. Must be the bike???


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Here's a shot of mine a couple of weeks ago when there was still snow on the trails.
I was setting up pressure and doing some stair riding in a local empty amphitheater in a state park. Fun but I realized there's no room for error...


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Just got back from my first ride. 

Did my first lap set at 150, rebound in the middle, and on the 2nd firmest platform. 

Second lap I pumped it up to 155 and flipped it to the firmest setting. 

First lap it felt "dead". Like it was just absorbing every thing. Really liked it. 

Second lap I added in a road section so I could watch the shock for movement while climbing. I detected zero. None. Nada. Zilch. Really impressed me when I went over a speed bump and the shock sucked it right up and went back to a very firm platform. 

However, once I hit the single track, it was bouncing around too much. I then flipped it t the softest setting. Bobbed too much, so back to the second firmest. Really enjoyed it at 155 psi as it made it a tad firmer than at 150, but it still sucked everything up.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Wow! 150psi seems like a lot from what I ride and my terrain is anything but forgiving. And really I am mainly using lock out and full open at this point. Still been highly impressed with the large and larger jumps I am taking and I am 200 kitted, 6' and a semi aggressive rider. 


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

I got a chance to do a very short ride on the new McLeod today. I wasn't as impressed as I was hoping to be. I was wanting a little more platform than the DT Swiss EX200 I have on the 2013 Scott Genius. The EX200 was not the original shock but I put it on because the original shock was too stiff, so I was hoping for a sweet spot in the middle.
I didn't get that much time on it, but to be honest, if I hadn't known I put the McLeod on there, I would have swore it was still the EX200. It performed exactly the same in all regards....very strange! Definitely not bad at all.
The upside is that I have the special tool needed to adjust the IFP chamber, so I may try to add some air and see if that changes anything. It should. The IFP chamber (I think it is called) is accessed on the shaft on the end. The cap is a 5 sided nut. Fox says they use nitrogen in that chamber but old Manitou shocks used air. I will likely contact Manitou tech and ask them what is the max pressure so I don't over do it.
BTW, my Scott does not have as much anti-squat as your Thumper does Greg, so it requires more platform.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> I got a chance to do a very short ride on the new McLeod today. I wasn't as impressed as I was hoping to be. I was wanting a little more platform than the DT Swiss EX200 I have on the 2013 Scott Genius. The EX200 was not the original shock but I put it on because the original shock was too stiff, so I was hoping for a sweet spot in the middle.
> I didn't get that much time on it, but to be honest, if I hadn't known I put the McLeod on there, I would have swore it was still the EX200. It performed exactly the same in all regards....very strange! Definitely not bad at all.
> The upside is that I have the special tool needed to adjust the IFP chamber, so I may try to add some air and see if that changes anything. It should. The IFP chamber (I think it is called) is accessed on the shaft on the end. The cap is a 5 sided nut. Fox says they use nitrogen in that chamber but old Manitou shocks used air. I will likely contact Manitou tech and ask them what is the max pressure so I don't over do it.
> BTW, my Scott does not have as much anti-squat as your Thumper does Greg, so it requires more platform.


So it didn't have enough platform in the maximum setting? Won't changing the IFP pressure just vary the dampning compression rate across the full travel of the shock.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> I got a chance to do a very short ride on the new McLeod today. I wasn't as impressed as I was hoping to be. I was wanting a little more platform than the DT Swiss EX200 I have on the 2013 Scott Genius. The EX200 was not the original shock but I put it on because the original shock was too stiff, so I was hoping for a sweet spot in the middle.
> I didn't get that much time on it, but to be honest, if I hadn't known I put the McLeod on there, I would have swore it was still the EX200. It performed exactly the same in all regards....very strange! Definitely not bad at all.
> The upside is that I have the special tool needed to adjust the IFP chamber, so I may try to add some air and see if that changes anything. It should. The IFP chamber (I think it is called) is accessed on the shaft on the end. The cap is a 5 sided nut. Fox says they use nitrogen in that chamber but old Manitou shocks used air. I will likely contact Manitou tech and ask them what is the max pressure so I don't over do it.
> BTW, my Scott does not have as much anti-squat as your Thumper does Greg, so it requires more platform.


What are you doing that needs so much platform? You did try all the IPA settings right?

IFP pressure will not change the platform. These are not SPV. How much pressure and sag are you running?


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

150 was giving me about 30% sag. I tried 140 to see and sag jumped to something close to 40%. I figure at 155 I am probably about 25% and getting damn near full travel. 

For comparison, I was running 190 in the RP3 I took off.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Dougal said:


> What are you doing that needs so much platform? You did try all the IPA settings right?
> 
> IFP pressure will not change the platform. These are not SPV. How much pressure and sag are you running?


Only the full IPA setting worked perfectly for what I use it for which is standing on the pedals. 
Unlike a lot of people, I am constantly changing the platform to suit the situation whether it be standing and mashing, smooth surface, rocks, etc. which is why I use a remote. The lower IPA settings behaved just like my EX200, but I have older Manitou shocks that had much better platform while still opening up perfectly when I hit a bump; but did not have a remote option. They used SPV or some similar technology.

How will changing the IFP pressure affect the shock?


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Unlike a lot of people, I am constantly changing the platform to suit the situation whether it be standing and mashing, smooth surface, rocks, etc. which is why I use a remote.
> 
> The lower IPA settings behaved just like my EX200, but I have older Manitou shocks that had much better platform while still opening up perfectly when I hit a bump; but did not have a remote option.
> 
> ...


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Yea, it is a tall order and a crap shoot when buying a new shock. 
I had a DW link Sultan. Not all DW links are the same. What the suspension tuner was talking about was that if you have a bike with a sufficient amount of anti-squat, the shock doesn't have to deal with providing all of the platform. The problem with too much anti-squat is that the shock needs to have so little platform for the bike to perform correctly so when you get out of the saddle (with the shock on full platform) the suspension is moving all over the place. As I get older, I need to stand a lot more so a bike like the Sultan doesn't work so well for me. My Tallboy LT is a perfect balance of anti-squat in that that the shock seems to do about half of the platform work and the suspension doesn't have too bad of pedal feedback. The Genius on the other hand has hardly any feedback which is great for pedaling through rock gardens.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Only the full IPA setting worked perfectly for what I use it for which is standing on the pedals.
> Unlike a lot of people, I am constantly changing the platform to suit the situation whether it be standing and mashing, smooth surface, rocks, etc. which is why I use a remote. The lower IPA settings behaved just like my EX200, but I have older Manitou shocks that had much better platform while still opening up perfectly when I hit a bump; but did not have a remote option. They used SPV or some similar technology.
> 
> How will changing the IFP pressure affect the shock?


Okay, you're a masher who needs a firm lockout. The McLeod isn't really a lockout shock, it's just four stages of platform and targetted at trail riders.

The Radium has a lockout. The previous SRL, S-Type etc shocks were the pre-decessors to the Radium.

It is possible to build a Swinger with a lockout. One of Manitou's sponsored Enduro riders is running one. But it's not an off the shelf item.

Increasing IFP pressure will add to spring force and add extra seal drag.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Dougal said:


> It is possible to build a Swinger with a lockout. One of Manitou's sponsored Enduro riders is running one. But it's not an off the shelf item.


It is off the shelf. I ordered a swinger for my son last year. It showed up with a lockout. Just check before ordering.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Cary said:


> It is off the shelf. I ordered a swinger for my son last year. It showed up with a lockout. Just check before ordering.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


Interesting. Got pics?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Manitou Swinger Pro Dual Can | Chain Reaction Cycles
Is this maybe the one he got? Red lever at the top looks like a lock-out lever.

So pumped the shock up to 120psi today while also equaling out my Rev Dual air.. Ride was definitely more harsh as my hands were tired after only an hour ride so got to play with settings more on that... Didnt really notice any difference with the McLeod, there were times where it felt a bit more harsh and I did washout in one section that I have never washed out in before which I am attributing to the change to the fork.

Anyways, I know I know only change one thing at a time..


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gregnash said:


> Manitou Swinger Pro Dual Can | Chain Reaction Cycles
> Is this maybe the one he got? Red lever at the top looks like a lock-out lever.
> 
> So pumped the shock up to 120psi today while also equaling out my Rev Dual air.. Ride was definitely more harsh as my hands were tired after only an hour ride so got to play with settings more on that... Didnt really notice any difference with the McLeod, there were times where it felt a bit more harsh and I did washout in one section that I have never washed out in before which I am attributing to the change to the fork.
> ...


Yep, that's the elusive lockout swinger. I've never seen them in a catalogue so maybe an OEM spec that got split out.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Manitou Swinger Pro Dual Can Shock | Manitou


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

@Dougal, I've seen those lockout Swinger Experts for sale every now and then. Looks like they combined a Radium and a Swinger. I wonder how it, because the lockout mechanism is in the moving piston, so the IFP pressure must be very high. 
It does seem to have a normal tapered midvalve shimstack though, here are some pics:
Manitou Swinger Expert Air | Seite 4 | MTB-News.de


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Okay, you're a masher who needs a firm lockout. The McLeod isn't really a lockout shock, it's just four stages of platform and targetted at trail riders.
> 
> The Radium has a lockout. The previous SRL, S-Type etc shocks were the pre-decessors to the Radium.
> 
> ...


Masher - Yes. Firm Lockout - No way! I think firm lockouts for mountain bikes make no sense. What I like is a firm platform that opens up under sharp impacts. It can be and has been done. The McLeod is awesome for an off the shelf shock and the price is very competitive. What I like about Fox is that they can be tuned to different suspension designs, but you have to pay to play. The McLeod is probably more suited for suspensions designs leaning towards the middle of the road in terms of anti-squat which makes sense.

Just to be clear about what I mean I will expound. When I start pedaling while seated (in any IPA setting other than full) the suspension seriously squats...and I mean a lot. I usually only use full IPA for out of saddle climbing. I'm not into flipping the IPA to full every time I accelerate because that would get old, but if I don't the geometry changes so much that handling is affected along with the energy robbing affect of compressing the suspension for no reason. The original shock that came on the Genius was overly harsh instead of providing platform when in the trail mode, and lockout was almost full lockout which would only make sense for the road.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Masher - Yes. Firm Lockout - No way! I think firm lockouts for mountain bikes make no sense. What I like is a firm platform that opens up under sharp impacts. It can be and has been done. The McLeod is awesome for an off the shelf shock and the price is very competitive. What I like about Fox is that they can be tuned to different suspension designs, but you have to pay to play. The McLeod is probably more suited for suspensions designs leaning towards the middle of the road in terms of anti-squat which makes sense.
> 
> Just to be clear about what I mean I will expound. When I start pedaling while seated (in any IPA setting other than full) the suspension seriously squats...and I mean a lot. I usually only use full IPA for out of saddle climbing. I'm not into flipping the IPA to full every time I accelerate because that would get old, but if I don't the geometry changes so much that handling is affected along with the energy robbing affect of compressing the suspension for no reason. The original shock that came on the Genius was overly harsh instead of providing platform when in the trail mode, and lockout was almost full lockout which would only make sense for the road.


I'd suggest giving the guy's @ X-Fusion a call (831) 221-5047. I had an older H2 PVA shock that when placed in "platform setting's" would keep the bike higher in its travel. X-Fusion can custom tune to your liking as well. X Fusion Shox - Shocks .


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Masher - Yes. Firm Lockout - No way! I think firm lockouts for mountain bikes make no sense. What I like is a firm platform that opens up under sharp impacts. It can be and has been done. The McLeod is awesome for an off the shelf shock and the price is very competitive. What I like about Fox is that they can be tuned to different suspension designs, but you have to pay to play. The McLeod is probably more suited for suspensions designs leaning towards the middle of the road in terms of anti-squat which makes sense.
> 
> Just to be clear about what I mean I will expound. When I start pedaling while seated (in any IPA setting other than full) the suspension seriously squats...and I mean a lot. I usually only use full IPA for out of saddle climbing. I'm not into flipping the IPA to full every time I accelerate because that would get old, but if I don't the geometry changes so much that handling is affected along with the energy robbing affect of compressing the suspension for no reason. The original shock that came on the Genius was overly harsh instead of providing platform when in the trail mode, and lockout was almost full lockout which would only make sense for the road.


Is your bike a really high leverage ratio or something? It sounds like you're not running enough air pressure.

Even the worst squatting bike can only increase the load on the rear shock by the weight that comes off the front wheel. Which is basically double static load and it only does that under hard enough acceleration (or steep enough climbing) to lift the front wheel.

The McLeod is fully tunable internally. But I don't think that's your problem right now.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

two-one said:


> @Dougal, I've seen those lockout Swinger Experts for sale every now and then. Looks like they combined a Radium and a Swinger. I wonder how it, because the lockout mechanism is in the moving piston, so the IFP pressure must be very high.
> It does seem to have a normal tapered midvalve shimstack though, here are some pics:
> Manitou Swinger Expert Air | Seite 4 | MTB-News.de


Yes, that's the same sort of lockout used in the Radium, SRL, LRS and many other rear shocks. The SRL on the Merida's were using 400psi on the IFP to give enough lockout force without cavitation.

Turns out I wasn't paying attention to my order forms. All 2014 and 2015 Swingers are listed as "lockout". I have read those descriptions many many times and never noticed that! :eekster:


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

It seems to happen just as much on flat surfaces, but also on uphill tight switchbacks when there is a lot of acceleration from a slow speed.

I just set the pressure to give between 25-30% sag which for my bike is 120 lb/in^2.

The shock ratio is approx. 2.6/1

If there is a way to tune it to help this I would be all over it.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> It seems to happen just as much on flat surfaces, but also on uphill tight switchbacks when there is a lot of acceleration from a slow speed.


I agree with Dougal in that this squatting as described might be better handled by more spring versus more lsc damping. It so easy to try more spring, give it a try. Depending on how bad it is, it may only take 5psi. How much do you weigh?

The pictures in this article give me a pretty good idea of how they are changing the compression damping with the IPA versus a Fox Float or RS Monarch.

SOC14: Manitou McLeod Rear Shock Digs Up Massive Adjustability in Modern Air Platform

It appears they are using a stepped piston face and the pushrod directly applies/removes preload to the stack by pushing on the id of the shims. There is no bleed/bypass circuit on the comp side. This is very interesting and completely different than how the Fox/RS changes damping with a spring loaded poppet. I really like the concept.

Hopefully I can get my hands on one . . . at some point.

How hard is it to un cap the ifp fill port?


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

SOC14: Manitou McLeod Rear Shock Digs Up Massive Adjustability in Modern Air Platform 
From the article :
While the shock uses a standard air can for the main spring, the McLeod features a unique non-adjustable negative spring. Essentially the negative spring is created when you slide the air can on the shock body, trapping air between two seals which acts as the spring. Technically there is no “official” way to tune the negative spring, but we’re told that if you use a hair dryer on the can during assembly, the hot air will be less dense and offer a different tune.

I asked Manitou about air can volume changes and was told the shock was too new. I didn't really care for that answer. If I am going to spend $$ and the shock doesn't perform correctly when if ever will air volume aids be available (maybe never???).


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

ktm520 said:


> I agree with Dougal in that this squatting as described might be better handled by more spring versus more lsc damping. It so easy to try more spring, give it a try. Depending on how bad it is, it may only take 5psi. How much do you weigh?
> 
> How hard is it to un cap the ifp fill port?


I weight 185 lb. I don't really see how adding a little more pressure will do anything other that starting the same squat action from a higher sag point, but I will try. It may not be good for geometry though.

Vey easy to adjust the IFP if you have the correct tool. Manitou still may be selling these. I purchased one from them around 2007.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> I weight 185 lb. I don't really see how adding a little more pressure will do anything other that starting the same squat action from a higher sag point, but I will try. It may not be good for geometry though.
> 
> Vey easy to adjust the IFP if you have the correct tool. Manitou still may be selling these. I purchased one from them around 2007.


Squat happens until the spring force builds to equal to the squat force and it becomes stable again.
Thus the only way to reduce it is by more spring force. The IFP pressure is not going to help you here.

You can't replace spring rate with damper platform.


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## notjustjeff (Sep 26, 2011)

I wouldnt mess with the IFP on the McLeod if you're looking to alter platform (or at all for that matter). The shocks have their IFP pressure charged with nitrogen to specifically match the shim tune 

If you insist, I would check with Manitou as to what the oem charge pressure is so you can set it back to factory when you're done playing


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

notjustjeff said:


> I wouldnt mess with the IFP on the McLeod if you're looking to alter platform (or at all for that matter). The shocks have their IFP pressure charged with nitrogen to specifically match the shim tune
> 
> If you insist, I would check with Manitou as to what the oem charge pressure is so you can set it back to factory when you're done playing


Thanks but i can do that myself and you guys talked me out of it anyway.
I did just finally add a remote. i used the Fox newer 3 way lever which allowed me to set the middle setting on the lever to the 3rd IPA setting on the shock. The 3rd setting was perfect for my frame so all is well now. Now that it is broken in, I really do like this shock better than the DT in every way. I can now notice how it opens up a little quicker and has better platform than the DT. I look forward to doing a long burly ride tomorrow.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Does any of you McLeod's have experience with an Rockshox RT3 ? 

Searching for a new rear shock to replace my rp23. 
I'm searching for something with a full open - trail- and lockout mode.
I also ride my mountain bike on the road, so a really firm lockout is essential. 
It is something I miss on my rp23. The McLeod and RT3 seam like the best options. 

How firm is the lockout on the rt3 and McLeod ? 
How diy is the rt3 and McLeod ? Hate to send it back and pay 100 euros just for maintenance (kuch kuch ... FOX ... kuch kuch  ) 

Thanks for the help


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

michiel91b said:


> Does any of you McLeod's have experience with an Rockshox RT3 ?
> 
> Searching for a new rear shock to replace my rp23.
> I'm searching for something with a full open - trail- and lockout mode.
> ...


Forget the RT3, Mcleoad hands down ;-)
The level of damping is another level and the mcleod can be had for such a good price 
I´d only instead try the X-Fusion stage as had the vector air which was very good.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Does the Macleod shock run a "tune" of any sort, or do they just work with a variety of frames with the way the valving is set up? I'm tempted to get one for my bike which runs a m/m tune Fox RP2 shock. I'm assuming that the Macleod will/should be a much better shock than the Fox and a more than adequate replacement.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

The webshops (bike-components and bike24) don't seem to offer any sort of tuning options.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

michiel91b said:


> The webshops (bike-components and bike24) don't seem to offer any sort of tuning options.


So how would the Mcleod work with a dw liked bike? The Mattoc is making my dw linked rear feel turd like and I may need to fix this. The RP23 is already kashima coated and PUSHED so I am not sure how much more I am going to get out of the Fox unit..


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Vespasianus I haved asked your question to someone in my local forum who rides a mc leod


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

From what I understand from Manitou, there are no tuning options that are off the shelf at this time. If you want a special tune you would have to work with them through your local authorized bike shop. Still no videos up on tuning or maintenance so I am going to shoot them and email. Unfortunately, I have been busy and down sick for the last 3wks so I have not touched my bike other than playing with tire change.

Hopefully that will change tonight with a ride after work.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kiwiplague said:


> Does the Macleod shock run a "tune" of any sort, or do they just work with a variety of frames with the way the valving is set up? I'm tempted to get one for my bike which runs a m/m tune Fox RP2 shock. I'm assuming that the Macleod will/should be a much better shock than the Fox and a more than adequate replacement.


My testers don't notice the difference so much going from a Fox to a Mcleod. But they really hated going back.

Aftermarket the McLeods are all sold in one tune that seems to suit the 140-170mm bikes very well. But internally they are fully revalvable I believe both with shim stacks and range of motion of the compression adjustment. There are also continual developments happening for the McLeod shocks.

I have been right into my 200x56 McLeod for a look around and oil change. I'm leaving my 190x50 unmolested.
It is hands-down the best and easiest shock to service I have worked on.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Dougal said:


> My testers don't notice the difference so much going from a Fox to a Mcleod. But they really hated going back.
> 
> Aftermarket the McLeods are all sold in one tune that seems to suit the 140-170mm bikes very well. But internally they are fully revalvable. There are also continual developments happening for the McLeod shocks.


Dougal did your testers also test the RT3 and the DT Swiss x313 ?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> Douglas did your testers also test the RT3 and the DT Swiss x313 ?


Nope. DT have almost no presence here. There is one guy on a Monarch piggy back, but I want to see him on a Revox coil shock.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Hi. There seems like some knowledge floating around here so maybe you guys can help me. I have a Knolly Warden, 150mm travel, 200X57 CC Inline. It's not user serviceable so I want to get a backup shock for when I have to send it away. The McLeod looks good and the price is great. Other option would be a Monarch. I Weigh 200 geared up. Will the McLeod be a suitable candidate?


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Travis Bickle said:


> Hi. There seems like some knowledge floating around here so maybe you guys can help me. I have a Knolly Warden, 150mm travel, 200X57 CC Inline. It's not user serviceable so I want to get a backup shock for when I have to send it away. The McLeod looks good and the price is great. Other option would be a Monarch. I Weigh 200 geared up. Will the McLeod be a suitable candidate?


DT X313 is also on my shortlist


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Travis Bickle said:


> Will the McLeod be a suitable candidate?


Yes.

Right. Air-sleeve maintenance tips.

The McLeod uses trapped air in the negative spring. Over time and with external factors such as altitude change you may want to reset it.

You should set aside about 15 minutes for this job.
1. Remove the shock and release all air pressure.
2. Remove the hardware from the lower end of the shock (end without the adjuster knobs.
3. Clamp hardware from the adjuster end in a vice or workstand to hold the shock.
4. Get a wrench and loosen the air can.
5. Unscrew by hand and slide it off.
6. Clean and grease.
7. Replace and ride.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

That is what I find annoying. Why not have a self regulating negative air chamber like pretty much every other shock on the market. I see no benefit at all in not having a transfer port.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Yes.
> 
> Right. Air-sleeve maintenance tips.
> 
> ...


So you can do als maintenance yourself  Or is there something you can't do at home with the right tools ?

Is there any news on the milo system ? can you switch all 4 modes ? cost ?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> That is what I find annoying. Why not have a self regulating negative air chamber like pretty much every other shock on the market. I see no benefit at all in not having a transfer port.


Have you noticed all the shocks with self-balancing negative chambers are now offering different cans with different negative air-volumes?

There appears to be no negative chamber that does it all.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> So you can do als maintenance yourself  Or is there something you can't do at home with the right tools ?
> 
> Is there any news on the milo system ? can you switch all 4 modes ? cost ?


It can be done at home with any clean work area. For tools you just need a wrench to fit the flats on the air-can.

I keep forgetting about the remote. P/N is 142-31535-K027 and it's not expensive.
I should order one next time.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Do you think you can switch between all 4 modes or just between 2 ?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> Do you think you can switch between all 4 modes or just between 2 ?


I can't imagine it being only two. But I haven't seen one yet.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

If I look at this youtube video I don't think that the old milo system will work. Is 142-31535-K027 the old milo set ?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> If I look at this youtube video I don't think that the old milo system will work. Is 142-31535-K027 the old milo set ?


This is not the MILO system part number. It is a McLeod specific remote.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

ok, than it should be a 4 way remote


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Yes.
> 
> Right. Air-sleeve maintenance tips.
> 
> ...


Dougal, thanks. Will I be near the maximum air pressure?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Travis Bickle said:


> Dougal, thanks. Will I be near the maximum air pressure?


I am a bit under 80kg with all riding gear.
On my 150mm Turner (190x50mm shock) I was running ~160psi.
On my 140mm Torrent (200x56mm shock) I was running ~115-130psi.

200lb (88kg) isn't going to scare this at all.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Thanks Dougal, I have only used the McLeod for a little under 10 hours and it seems to be getting some stiction so I was wondering if they didn't put enough grease. It was so smooth at first. What type of grease is the best for this shock?

Michiel91b, as far as the Milo goes, there are only 2 settings. All the way open and all the way closed. This is what the Manitou tech told me at least. I installed the Fox 3-way remote and it works perfectly for my application. I set the middle setting on the 3rd IPA and the other 2 settings are both a hair more than 1 setting away. Since the IPA is really infinitely adjustable in that the settings are only arbitrary, this poses no issue. So all in all, you get a touch over 3 settings of spread with the Fox.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Thanks Dougal, I have only used the McLeod for a little under 10 hours and it seems to be getting some stiction so I was wondering if they didn't put enough grease. It was so smooth at first. What type of grease is the best for this shock?


I used Prep M. Slick Honey/Slickoleum would also be perfect.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Thanks.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Have you noticed all the shocks with self-balancing negative chambers are now offering different cans with different negative air-volumes?
> 
> There appears to be no negative chamber that does it all.


There is more going on in the debonair/evol/corset than just neg volume. But, I agree, the air can doesn't make or break a shock. The McLeod can design doesn't really bother me if it proves reliable.

I am very intrigued by all the positive comments on this shock considering it has absolutely no comp bleed circuit. I'm a manitou fan and would love to try one though. Can't see it being a game changer compared to my RT3 Debonair, but I've eaten crow before.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> There is more going on in the debonair/evol/corset than just neg volume. But, I agree, the air can doesn't make or break a shock. The McLeod can design doesn't really bother me if it proves reliable.
> 
> I am very intrigued by all the positive comments on this shock considering it has absolutely no comp bleed circuit. I'm a manitou fan and would love to try one though. Can't see it being a game changer compared to my RT3 Debonair, but I've eaten crow before.


I don't think Manitou have ever used a compression bleed circuit in their rear shocks. They've all previously used shims on the rebound bolt to prevent bleed on compression.

While the McLeod compression circuits are excellent. It's the rebound stroke where it really shines. Well worth riding one if you get the chance.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Have you noticed all the shocks with self-balancing negative chambers are now offering different cans with different negative air-volumes?
> 
> There appears to be no negative chamber that does it all.


That's pretty much my point. A negative chamber that is set by putting the air can on is not going to adapt to various rider weights (spring pressures) as well as a spring that varies the negative spring pressure depending on the positive pressure. It's like having a one size fits all coil negative spring, but with less reliability. I'm not saying it's aweful, but it makes me raise an eyebrow and wonder why. Also makes me wonder what a Clyde running high spring pressures would think about it compared to a lightweight guy like me. I would bet that a Clyde would complain about small bump feel compared to a lightweight.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Hell at the price the currently are running for you arent going to find anything that comes close to comparing nor within about $100 new! Really you can't go wrong with it, do realize that it is a single can so it is not going to respond like a piggyback if that is what you are after, it does great as a trail/enduro/am type shock as it seems to soak everything up for me at my 207lbs geared up.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> That's pretty much my point. A negative chamber that is set by putting the air can on is not going to adapt to various rider weights (spring pressures) as well as a spring that varies the negative spring pressure depending on the positive pressure. It's like having a one size fits all coil negative spring, but with less reliability. I'm not saying it's aweful, but it makes me raise an eyebrow and wonder why. Also makes me wonder what a Clyde running high spring pressures would think about it compared to a lightweight guy like me. I would bet that a Clyde would complain about small bump feel compared to a lightweight.


The Clyde guys generally never complain about small bump response. It's the lighter riders who tend to struggle with it.

One of My McLeod's is currently on the Wife's Intense. Small bump response is excellent. She's not currently getting full travel, but that has been a problem with every fork and rear shock she has ridden. Even coils.

I have some special stuff on my desk to help with that. Can't say any more sorry.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

I mailed manitou two days ago about maintenance, tuneability and the new milo system. But no reply yet, I will post it here when I get it in my mailbox


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> I mailed manitou two days ago about maintenance, tuneability and the new milo system. But no reply yet, I will post it here when I get it in my mailbox


Can we be clear that MILO =/= McLeod remote?

MILO is a 2 position handlebar lockout for forks with ABS+.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Do you think it will have another name ?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> Do you think it will have another name ?


Different part number and different name. It's called the "McLeod Remote Conversion Kit".


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

No google search results yet. If anyone finds a picture or description of it, post it in the forum.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Why are you so set on a remote for your shock?! Something to remember is that the McLeod came out last year and wasn't available until Feb this year (2015). So while I a, sure that they are working on a remote for it, it may be a while. I have yet to ride anything where I didn't have a moment to reach down and switch to the mode I needed even if that meant slowing down. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Personally I can relate. I wouldn't consider buying a shock that I couldn't add a remote and have wanted one since the first time I new I could have it like 15 years ago. It is so nice going from a seated position to a standing sprint ----bam!!! I'm 50 yo and I still don't want to slow down to search for a lever between my legs every time I want to stand up. It's definitely a racer mentality and not everyone has it, but its okay 

Michiel, you are going to need to be patient like Dougal said. Manitou doesn't offer the remote just yet, nor do they offer the conversion for the remote. I happened to "luck out" and score one so that I could add a Fox remote. Although I was told the Manitou bremote would only offer 2 positions. I told them about using the Fox and they recommended it to another customer. Maybe they'll make one like that....who knows but that may take them a while.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Personally I can relate. I wouldn't consider buying a shock that I couldn't add a remote and have wanted one since the first time I new I could have it like 15 years ago. It is so nice going from a seated position to a standing sprint ----bam!!! I'm 50 yo and I still don't want to slow down to search for a lever between my legs every time I want to stand up. It's definitely a racer mentality and not everyone has it, but its okay
> 
> Michiel, you are going to need to be patient like Dougal said. Manitou doesn't offer the remote just yet, nor do they offer the conversion for the remote. I happened to "luck out" and score one so that I could add a Fox remote. Although I was told the Manitou bremote would only offer 2 positions. I told them about using the Fox and they recommended it to another customer. Maybe they'll make one like that....who knows but that may take them a while.


I stand and sprint without a lockout. But anyway.

The remote is available to order. It is simply that noone here has one yet.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Dougal, do you happen to know if Manitou will publish the maintenance and tuning guides for McLeod soon? I would like to maintain and tune my own stuff. For forks (at least older ones) they have excellent guides and I'm happy with my Tower Pro. But I cannot find anything about McLeod. 

I got Monarch RT3 Debonair for my bike in the beginning of year and now I might have option to sell it to fellow rider and get McLeod to myself. Rockshox has published everything I need to work with the shock and it's quite simple in fact. How is McLeod in this regard?

My other concern is, is the McLeod suitable for my needs? I have XC bike(BMC Fourstroke) that I'm converting to be more trail-bike like. It has quite low leverage ratio and the very linear linkage design. I want plush ride, excellent small bump compliance. With Debonair, I've filled the positive camber, to make it more progressive.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

arnea said:


> Dougal, do you happen to know if Manitou will publish the maintenance and tuning guides for McLeod soon? I would like to maintain and tune my own stuff. For forks (at least older ones) they have excellent guides and I'm happy with my Tower Pro. But I cannot find anything about McLeod


I don't know what is happening with official service documentation. But if you can work on any other rear shock, you can work on this one. I have posted up air-sleeve service information in this thread. The full internal service is a little easier than the average fox or RS due to the easy to use bleed port. The only special tool required is the air adapter to remove the IFP valve cap and then deliver air to the IFP valve.



arnea said:


> My other concern is, is the McLeod suitable for my needs? I have XC bike(BMC Fourstroke) that I'm converting to be more trail-bike like. It has quite low leverage ratio and the very linear linkage design. I want plush ride, excellent small bump compliance. With Debonair, I've filled the positive camber, to make it more progressive.


Should be ideal. All the usual air can tuning options will apply.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Dougal said:


> The only special tool required is the air adapter to remove the IFP valve cap and then deliver air to the IFP valve.


Thank you answers. I suppose this special tool can be ordered from Manitou?


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Not knowing about the remote is the only thing that is holding me back for making the purchase. Is 2 or 3 or 4 way switchable, hopefully manitou sent me an answer soon.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Dougal, is the bleed port located on the air piston/damper seal head?


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## notjustjeff (Sep 26, 2011)

ktm520 said:


> Dougal, is the bleed port located on the air piston/damper seal head?


yes


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

@dougal: If you have the part number of the remote system. Isn't then there a description or photo ?


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Dougal, can you please describe the shimstack if you have taken in appart.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> @dougal: If you have the part number of the remote system. Isn't then there a description or photo ?


The description is McLeod Remote. There is no photo.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

arnea said:


> Dougal, can you please describe the shimstack if you have taken in appart.


I haven't taken apart the shim-stack. But it is a shim-stack. I'm not sure how this information would help you. It takes a detailed examination with all dimensions of the pistons and ports to evaluate a shim stack.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Here is a photo with some interesting information


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

michiel91b said:


> @dougal: If you have the part number of the remote system. Isn't then there a description or photo ?


The cable stop attaches to the 2 threaded holes below the IPA/rebound adjusters. The only other part is a spring that fits below the IPA adjuster. The IPA adjuster already comes ready for remote cable.


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

Ordered a McLeod earlier this week from CRC, and it should be at my door sometime tomorrow (well I guess that would technically be today). I'm excited!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

You wont be disappointed especially if it is going on your Horsetheif. My Thumper is pretty much the exact same bike.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Wisconsinite762 said:


> Ordered a McLeod earlier this week from CRC, and it should be at my door sometime tomorrow (well I guess that would technically be today). I'm excited!


Mine took at least 10 working days so unless you upgraded from the free shipping...


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

gregnash said:


> You wont be disappointed especially if it is going on your Horsetheif. My Thumper is pretty much the exact same bike.


Yup, going on my Horsethief. It will be nice to have a platform shock, my current shock (Monarch R) only has air pressure and rebound adjustments.



Barman1 said:


> Mine took at least 10 working days so unless you upgraded from the free shipping...


Yeah, I paid the extra $6 for upgraded shipping hoping that it would be here before the weekend. Tracking currently says "with delivery courier", I ordered it June 3rd at 1am CST so I'm very pleased. Definitely worth the $6 IMO.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Wisconsinite762 said:


> Yeah, I paid the extra $6 for upgraded shipping hoping that it would be here before the weekend. Tracking currently says "with delivery courier", I ordered it June 3rd at 1am CST so I'm very pleased. Definitely worth the $6 IMO.


Agreed, worth it.
I was doing a bit of nail biting till mine showed up. 
Next time I'll pay the six bucks.


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

Barman1 said:


> Agreed, worth it.
> I was doing a bit of nail biting till mine showed up.
> Next time I'll pay the six bucks.


I ordered a bottom bracket, grips, pedals, and a rear derailleur as well, surprisingly I got an email 5 hours after I placed the order notifying me that everything was processed and shipped. I just hope it actually gets delivered today, my house seems to be at the end of their delivery route and sometimes they don't make it to me the same day.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Got this in my mailbox today from Manitou Support 

Please see our comments below , you should know mcleod is basically a AM / endure developed product. So for CC racing not really the best choice if you need a static lock out .

* milo-system: 4 modes switchable ? NO only platform on or off
* Do you have to bring it to a specialist every year like a Fox ? it depends on your riding style, but a service once a year is recommended
* Hard climb mode also good on the road for sprinting sessions and interval training ? no , it is a dynamic not a static L/O ( platform )


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Disappointed about the remote


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

You could always see about maybe modifying a rear derailleur to do the switching for you. Yeah sucks that they setup the dial for the remote but no dice on it so far. May just be something that will come down the line with time.

Michiel - it sounds like you are a XC racer. Seems like you might be better off with a hardtail than a full suspension bike for what you are looking for (e.g. full lock out, sprinting on road sections, etc.). As they stated this is meant to be an AM/Enduro/Trail shock (even says so on the product description) which to me means that it will be more focused on having a consistent and usable platform than just a pure lockout and open. You might be better off with the Radium.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Yeah think I'm gonna go with the DT swiss. More platform and 3 way switchable with the remote


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The shock itself has no set damping positions. The damping can be set anywhere in the whole range, the detents are just for convenience.

So any remote will work and the more positions on your remote the more positions you get. Even an old friction shifter would let you have it all.

You must be a really rough pedaller to need more than that platform!


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

ok that's interesting. How would that work with the friction shifter ?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Good call Dougal, I did not even think of a friction shifter.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

It's a working solution, but don't think it's easy to operate. Will be easy one way, but hard to control the other way.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Dougal said:


> You must be a really rough pedaller to need more than that platform!


I see michiel is from Hasselt. Riding culture from this area of Europe tends to revolve around fast riding over relative easy en smooth paths, but with the option of going to the Belgian Ardennes whenever a marathon is organized... am I right michiel?


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

yup indeed. Also need to ride 10 km on the road to my local trail.

Manitou also said that if there will come a 4 way remote it will not be before mid year 2017


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Maybe you are better of ordering a Monarch XX or something, it has a tough platform and a nice hydraulic remote.
I personally never needed a lockout for riding, but then again, i almost never pedal out of the saddle, so I don't experience any kind of bobbing action.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

two-one said:


> Maybe you are better of ordering a Monarch XX or something, it has a tough platform and a nice hydraulic remote.
> I personally never needed a lockout for riding, but then again, i almost never pedal out of the saddle, so I don't experience any kind of bobbing action.


Yeah I am the same way, really the only time I stand and mash is if I need that little extra oomph or if I am on a flowy section and need to get up to speed quickly but even then I do not notice any significant pedal bob and that is at full open. The FOX CTD that I had I could definitely tell when I was in full open position.

Michiel - do you need a threshold position? Meaning do you need a specific "TRAIL" position like in the FOX CTD (Climb, Trail, Descend)? You might be able to get away with a lower level shock that just had and open and close (Lockout or Downhill) valving system as it seems this may be more of what you are looking for. Might save you some money in the long run too.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Yeah I was looking at that too. Just open and closed. 

But think I'm going with the X313 from DT SWiSS. 3 positions, good lockout, and comes with a remote for 300 euro. The McLeod is 219 euro but without a remote.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> yup indeed. Also need to ride 10 km on the road to my local trail.
> 
> Manitou also said that if there will come a 4 way remote it will not be before mid year 2017


I ride on the road to get to/from my trails. I've never needed or used a lockout to do it though.
If you have your suspension setup correctly and have even a half-decent suspension bike then bobbing should be a non issue.

It would take a seriously awful pedalling style to blow through the McLeod on full IPA setting. Like alternating leg cramps style pedalling. With associated, in-time, screams of pain.

You can also use whatever lever you want with as many indents as you like with the McLeod.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Found this link from other thread:

https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0B7grOSQ82keNcUhVTFFJa3hMNlE&tid=0B7grOSQ82keNV3F1Z20zTHUxU28

You can see McLeod internals here in exploded view.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Would still like to buy the McLeod, because it's cheaper than the DT Swiss and you can service it yourself. But the bad remote control lever kills it


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> Would still like to buy the McLeod, because it's cheaper than the DT Swiss and you can service it yourself. But the bad remote control lever kills it


Check into a Scott Twinloc remote. In the long run, you will be money ahead with the Mcleod. I don't know the design of the DT, but most the shocks with ultra firm lockouts sacrifice rebound action to get it, short of the new Fox DPS.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

This could be the holy grail


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

DT Swiss 2 in one remote is maybe also an option. Any one tried to pair the mcleod with the scott twinlock or dt swiss remote ?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Dougal said:


> She's not currently getting full travel, but that has been a problem with every fork and rear shock she has ridden. Even coils.
> 
> I have some special stuff on my desk to help with that. Can't say any more sorry.


Balls?


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

i got a 7.875 x 2.0 for sale if anyone is intersted


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

obs08 said:


> i got a 7.875 x 2.0 for sale if anyone is intersted


How much


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I went with a radium expert. Am i missing out?

As is, the radium blows the float shocks so far out of the water its ridiculous.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

out of the water as in: so much better than the fox float shocks ?


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## Trajan (Feb 9, 2004)

Was told by manitou that they will have a dual can option for the Mcloud later this year. Should help on dw and Vpp bikes.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

michiel91b said:


> out of the water as in: so much better than the fox float shocks ?


Yes, much better. It has mid stroke support and no wallow! Good bottom out control too. Rebound, im still adjusting but it feels ok as is.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Trajan said:


> Was told by manitou that they will have a dual can option for the Mcloud later this year. Should help on dw and Vpp bikes.


By dual can do you mean like debonair can? Or piggy back reservoir?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

croakies said:


> By dual can do you mean like debonair can? Or piggy back reservoir?


Yeah this is quite interesting that they would move to a piggyback style when the already have the Revox. Damnit I just want them to come out with a 29er version of the Mattoc!!!! IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK! (/whining)


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

croakies said:


> By dual can do you mean like debonair can? Or piggy back reservoir?


Based on some of their other air shocks like the swinger air I think they would be referring to a debonair type can with a higher volume etc.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/us/en/manitou-swinger-pro-dual-can/rp-prod70983


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

croakies said:


> By dual can do you mean like debonair can? Or piggy back reservoir?


No, I think they are talking larger air can - like what was on the old ISX and swinger. This is not a piggy back reservoir.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Its like debonair. Manitou has been doing it quietly for years now. Its a can in a can. It worked amazingly on my old isx evolver.

Its available for the radium already.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

And what will it do ? Can you just change the cans ?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> And what will it do ? Can you just change the cans ?


Well it won't fit a DT shock!


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Not such a harsh tone Dougal  I'm going with the Mc Leod, found I way to make the remote work thanks to the scott twin loc


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

obs08 said:


> i got a 7.875 x 2.0 for sale if anyone is intersted


Why do you want to sell it? You tried this shock in the Trance? I ride a Trance too and think about a change to the McLeod. No idea if this shock will work good in this frame.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Are there other mounting kits that are compatible with manitou ? I need a 8x40 mm but the one from manitou is not in stock


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

michiel91b said:


> Are there other mounting kits that are compatible with manitou ? I need a 8x40 mm but the one from manitou is not in stock


Manitou uses standard 1/2" hardware - Rockshox & Fox are readily available.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

ok thanks that will make it much easier to get my mc leod next weak


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

keen said:


> Manitou uses standard 1/2" hardware - Rockshox & Fox are readily available.


I would suggest Fox IGUS (plastic) bushings if they are available for your frame.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

why, are they so much better ?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

michiel91b said:


> why, are they so much better ?


Yes.

They last longer than metal bushings and usually do not squeak as much.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

Ok thanks, nice tip


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

So these ones right ?

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Fox-Racing-Shox/Aluminium-Einbaubuchsenset-8-mm-5-teilig-p32318/


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

michiel91b said:


> So these ones right ?
> 
> https://www.bike-components.de/en/Fox-Racing-Shox/Aluminium-Einbaubuchsenset-8-mm-5-teilig-p32318/


My German is very rusty but looking at the picture, yes.


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

my german also not that great but it's the best price on the web  

So correct me if i'm wrong to install the new mc Leod in my frame I only need two sets of these bushings (fox, rock shox or manitou) in the right width and diameter. With a vice I can put everything together ?


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

In a previous post by michiel91b which showed a cutaway diagram of the McLeod, there was a part that had a heading "tuneable large air volume" and it highlighted what looked like a spacer (it was coloured yellow in the diagram). Is it a similar arrangement to what Fox use in the float shocks, where you can insert different sized spacers to adjust the volume of the air can?


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Kiwiplague said:


> In a previous post by michiel91b which showed a cutaway diagram of the McLeod, there was a part that had a heading "tuneable large air volume" and it highlighted what looked like a spacer (it was coloured yellow in the diagram). Is it a similar arrangement to what Fox use in the float shocks, where you can insert different sized spacers to adjust the volume of the air can?


That was the plan... I asked Manitou if there were any volume spacers. They said there are none for the McLeod. Don't know if they are in the works though.


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Is there any experience with this shock in the Giant Trance of 2014 or 2015?


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## michiel91b (Apr 25, 2015)

So correct me if i'm wrong, these should work with the Mc Leod 

https://www.bike-components.de/en/R...-fuer-Monarch-Kage-Vivid-Ario-ab-2010-p24675/


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## riiz (Jul 8, 2010)

michiel91b said:


> So correct me if i'm wrong, these should work with the Mc Leod
> 
> https://www.bike-components.de/en/R...-fuer-Monarch-Kage-Vivid-Ario-ab-2010-p24675/


Yes


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

croakies said:


> By dual can do you mean like debonair can? Or piggy back reservoir?





Vespasianus said:


> No, I think they are talking larger air can - like what was on the old ISX and swinger. This is not a piggy back reservoir.


Bingo. The guys in the lab tell me "something is coming soon" to address your air volume concerns.

I can't say much, but what I've seen so far is offering more tuning options than any of the competition.



michiel91b said:


> Are there other mounting kits that are compatible with manitou ? I need a 8x40 mm but the one from manitou is not in stock





ColinL said:


> I would suggest Fox IGUS (plastic) bushings if they are available for your frame.


Any mount kit will work, but across different brands there is a huge variation in shock eyelet size. Yes they're all supposed to be 19/32 of an inch. But in reality they vary by 1/32" in each direction. RS hardware is generally on the small side and fox hardware generally on the large side.

The anodising on the fox hardware isn't that tough and the IGUS bushings chew through it. I make stainless hardware with IGUS (I was doing it years before fox too) and it can outlast the rest of the bike.
But to get a good fit it needs to be custom fitted to each shock. The tolerances are that fine between a good fit and either too tight or too loose.



Kiwiplague said:


> In a previous post by michiel91b which showed a cutaway diagram of the McLeod, there was a part that had a heading "tuneable large air volume" and it highlighted what looked like a spacer (it was coloured yellow in the diagram). Is it a similar arrangement to what Fox use in the float shocks, where you can insert different sized spacers to adjust the volume of the air can?


I haven't found anyone wanting to decrease volume so far and manitou haven't released volume spacers yet. But any method like that will work. Because the negative chamber is sealed you can even use grease/liquids to reduce volume.


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## brodaty (Jun 22, 2015)

Hi! I'm new here 
I'm looking for some damper to replace my old one fox triad from specialized stumpjumper fsr. Do you think that mc leod will be better than fox ctd, or rp23?


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Can anybody help wich experience of the shock in the Giant Trance 2014 or 2015?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

@brodaty the bike I currently ride is basically a stumpy fsr and the McLeod has been phenomenal on it. 

@lutsch doesn't look like anyone on here has put one on a trance yet. However the shock is meant for a TRAIL/AM bike which is where the Trance is aimed. As long as you get the right shock size you should be good to go.


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## brodaty (Jun 22, 2015)

I see one problem. My bushing is about 15mm wide, McLeod is 12,7mm so I need something what is narrower in the middle part of bushing. 
This is my frame: fs - 2007 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Medium « Singletrack Forum


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## brodaty (Jun 22, 2015)

I see one problem. My bushing is about 15mm wide and McLeod needs 12,7mm. I need some bushing narrower in the middle part but the same size. What can I do here?


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## mechsc1 (Dec 28, 2013)

brodaty said:


> I see one problem. My bushing is about 15mm wide and McLeod needs 12,7mm. I need some bushing narrower in the middle part but the same size. What can I do here?


I am not getting the full picture here but some frames run the shock w/o the DU bushing. No DU / open eyelet size is 15mm.


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## brodaty (Jun 22, 2015)

So McLeod has some bushing inside eyelet what makes 12,7 mm and without it it's 15mm? My Fox has 15mm eyelet and it will be great if McLeod have 15mm


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

brodaty said:


> View attachment 998345
> So McLeod has some bushing inside eyelet what makes 12,7 mm and without it it's 15mm? My Fox has 15mm eyelet and it will be great if McLeod have 15mm


McLeod eyelet is the same size as the fox.

Push the bushing out and it'll fit.


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## brodaty (Jun 22, 2015)

great!!!  thanks


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yup if you read back you will see that I had to push the stock bushings out and used the ones that came with my FOX. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## brodaty (Jun 22, 2015)

In my case it looks a little bit different. I don't need any other parts, only damper with naked eyelet and main bushing


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## Stratus (Mar 29, 2015)

For the remote fans out there:
Manitou Mcleod modification kit for Remote


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

^^^^ interesting. Wonder what it looks like?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Got my new McLeod. Got my new IGUS Bushings. Waiting for the three piece hardware.

It is replacing a Swinger 3 way air on my Prophet. Can't wait!


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

So I got my McLeod today. Feels very good in a parking lot test, but it's extremely noisy. On both the compression and rebound stroke. I'm wondering if the damper needs bled. Anyone elses notice this?


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> So I got my (used) McLeod today. Feels very good in a parking lot test, but it's extremely noisy. On both the compression and rebound stroke. I'm wondering if the damper needs bled. Anyone elses notice this?


Mine has a slight sound just like the Tower Pro I've got on the front. Just normal compression and rebound sound though, nothing alarmingly loud. I kind of like it, gives me a baseline for what it's supposed to sound like.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Barman1 said:


> Mine has a slight sound just like the Tower Pro I've got on the front. Just normal compression and rebound sound though, nothing alarmingly loud. I kind of like it, gives me a baseline for what it's supposed to sound like.


 It's quite a bit louder than any rear shock I have owned. My minute makes noise when the shim stack open which is normal, but this makes noise even on the slowest movements. It could be due to the damper design not having a traditional free bleed though. Just want to make sure I'm not the only one that has it. I don't have the ifp tool at the moment so I can't do damper bleed.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> So I got my (used) McLeod today. Feels very good in a parking lot test, but it's extremely noisy. On both the compression and rebound stroke. I'm wondering if the damper needs bled. Anyone elses notice this?


I get two noises. One is the zip sound of the sliding surfaces, the other some hissing from the oil through the shims. I don't hear either while riding but if you listen while the bike is stationary they are there.

I haven't had any air intrusion into the damper on mine.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Video for reference.

It's rained for 5 days in a row so it will be a little while before I can hit the trail. Riding around my house yielded an impressive feel. Will be able to give a detailed comparison between it and a monarch rt3 debonair.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

May need an oil change but mine is close to that loud. I have noticed that the shock does make more noise as it has broken in.

@barman1 - how do you like the Minute and McLeod combo? Post picks of your bike.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

gregnash said:


> May need an oil change but mine is close to that loud. I have noticed that the shock does make more noise as it has broken in.
> 
> *@barman1 - how do you like the Minute and McLeod combo? Post picks of your bike.*


I'm completely impressed.
It's 120mm travel front 100mm rear.
With the old Reba 120 and Fox Float combo the bike was very finicky about picking the right rocky/rooty downhill line. Now it just floats through the same lines. Great improvement!
Unfortunately though I think I've reached the limit of the Superlight 29 XC capabilities even though I've adapted it as well as I'm comfortable with for my local AM type trails. I'm swapping it for a Heckler next season.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Nice bike, here is my 2014 bantam with 10mm minute expert and newly installed McLeod. Had a 2015 rt3 debonair on it before the McLeod.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Does anybody (although most like dougal will) know what the two tiny hex head screws on the top of the shock are for? I thought I'd seen something somewhere that mentioned that they did something to the ipa and rebound dials, but I'm not sure if I'm remembering it correctly.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kiwiplague said:


> Does anybody (although most like dougal will) know what the two tiny hex head screws on the top of the shock are for? I thought I'd seen something somewhere that mentioned that they did something to the ipa and rebound dials, but I'm not sure if I'm remembering it correctly.


The one in the back sets the open limit of the rebound knob.

The one in the top is the detent ball and spring.

The one in the side locates the ipa knob spool and also sets the fully open knob position.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Cool, thanks for that dougal.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Had my first real ride on the McLeod today, a XC/trail ride for the local MTB club. Very rooty in places with a couple of steep hills and descents, not to mention it rained heavily the night before, so was quite tricky in some sections.
The shock performed very well, considering it still won't have broken in yet. Made the Fox it replaced feel very average, small bump compliance was very good, even with me only running 25% sag. Rebound seemed to well controlled as well (ran 1/4 of a turn on the rebound dial). Mostly rode with the IPA lever in the 2nd position, and fully open on the descents.
Definitely made the Fox RP2 it replaced feel decidedly average in comparison!


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

So I did a couple laps yesterday at a local trail. Trail has some jumps, drops, some decent climbs, and decents, as well as rocks and roots. I did one lap with the McLeod(second ride on it) and one lap with my 2015 Monarch rt3 debonair. To be fair, I have been working on a custom tune for the monarch all summer long and it is probably the best shock I have used in years (since I had a revox).

The McLeod really shined on small stuff. Anything under 3 inches was erased and the tire was stuck to the ground. Traction all around was very good in most situations but it did make the wheel feel like it was deflecting off medium sized square edge hits at high spèeds. Nothing terrible, but noticeable that the rear wheel was not connected with the ground when compared to my monarch in the same section. Big hit performance was very good damper wise, very controlled, never kicking back while always being ready for the next hit. Same goes with long rocky/root sections. Never felt it pack up and one only get out of sorts when hitting a larger square edge object like I stated earlier.

For my bike, I find the spring spring rate to be a little to linear. I would have never guessed that considering they are said to be making a higher volume can. I am an aggressive rider and bike has a slightly regressive leverage curve so that didn't help, but I see no reason why a larger volume can would be needed. If anything, I would like to see some volume spacers.

Overall I would say it's a very good shock that would blow away any Fox ctd or RP series shocks, as well as some of the monarch series shocks. Cant comment on the newest fox stuff, haven't had a chance to ride it yet. For me, I will likely spend most of my time with the RT3 on my bike. It out shines the McLeod in almost every way, with the McLeod getting to nod in small bump sensitivity and the monarch having a small advantage everywhere else. 

Hard pressed to find a stock tuned shock that out performs a customer tuned shock, though the McLeod is fairly close and a great pick up for the price.


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## mechsc1 (Dec 28, 2013)

mullen119 said:


> So I did a couple laps yesterday at a local trail. Trail has some jumps, drops, some decent climbs, and decents, as well as rocks and roots. I did one lap with the McLeod(second ride on it) and one lap with my 2015 Monarch rt3 debonair. To be fair, I have been working on a custom tune for the monarch all summer long and it is probably the best shock I have used in years (since I had a revox).
> 
> The McLeod really shined on small stuff. Anything under 3 inches was erased and the tire was stuck to the ground. Traction all around was very good in most situations but it did make the wheel feel like it was deflecting off medium sized square edge hits at high spèeds. Nothing terrible, but noticeable that the rear wheel was not connected with the ground when compared to my monarch in the same section. Big hit performance was very good damper wise, very controlled, never kicking back while always being ready for the next hit. Same goes with long rocky/root sections. Never felt it pack up and one only get out of sorts when hitting a larger square edge object like I stated earlier.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for the informative post I was beginning to feel like this thread was an advertisement for the Mcleod rear shock.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> So I did a couple laps yesterday at a local trail. Trail has some jumps, drops, some decent climbs, and decents, as well as rocks and roots. I did one lap with the McLeod(second ride on it) and one lap with my 2015 Monarch rt3 debonair. To be fair, I have been working on a custom tune for the monarch all summer long and it is probably the best shock I have used in years (since I had a revox).
> 
> The McLeod really shined on small stuff. Anything under 3 inches was erased and the tire was stuck to the ground. Traction all around was very good in most situations but it did make the wheel feel like it was deflecting off medium sized square edge hits at high spèeds. Nothing terrible, but noticeable that the rear wheel was not connected with the ground when compared to my monarch in the same section. Big hit performance was very good damper wise, very controlled, never kicking back while always being ready for the next hit. Same goes with long rocky/root sections. Never felt it pack up and one only get out of sorts when hitting a larger square edge object like I stated earlier.
> 
> ...


Good run-down. Your regressive bike is a rare thing these days, most (like me) are looking for less progression and the upcoming products will do just that.

I'll bet volume spacers are in the works for the McLeod but I know they haven't been released yet. Because it's a sealed positive chamber you can use fluids as well as solids for volume reduction.

What tweaks have you made to your Monarch?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Good run-down. Your regressive bike is a rare thing these days, most (like me) are looking for less progression and the upcoming products will do just that.
> 
> I'll bet volume spacers are in the works for the McLeod but I know they haven't been released yet. Because it's a sealed positive chamber you can use fluids as well as solids for volume reduction.
> 
> What tweaks have you made to your Monarch?


Removed all preload from the rebound and compression stacks as well as the check plates to get linear damping. Took a few trys to get in the ball park and a few more to get dialed in. Still a little room for improvement on it but I think I need to find a stiffer cv spring to fully utilize linear compression stacks. Ktm520 and I have been working on this for a while and will post some info for others to get a good base tune with linear stacks in the future for those interested in doing the same.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Two rides on the McLeod so far. Very pleased with the ride. It is mounted to a Prophet, 650b converted. It replaced a Manitou Swinger Air 3-way with SPV. I have lowered the pressure to 140 psi. Not using as much travel as I did with the Swinger which I ran at 150 psi. I weigh 175 geared up. The adjustable low speed compression is much nicer than the old SPV technology. No harsh small bump compliance issues. I am riding on the second position all the time. I am still dialing things in. The rebound dial works well. The shock is quiet as far as I can tell. No noise issues as mentioned earlier. The rear tire stays connected through rocky, rooty New England single track. I have been doing some drops of 3' with speed and the shock has not bottomed out. I am not sure of the difference between the Swinger and the McLeod as far as the progression of the spring, but it seems to be more suitable to my Prophet. The old Swinger would use all of it's travel. 

I'll post pics and more thoughts after Tuesday night's ride.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Was talking to manitou over the last few days. Sent them the video I posted here and they decided to send me a new shock. Hey said it did not sound normal and they wanted to bring it in. We talked about the spring rate and a few other technical spots as well. They are sending the shock to me with a few volume spacers to play with that will soon be available to the public. Also made mention that a few high volume air cans are being tested and should be available in the near future as well. I got the feeling that if my bike was progressive and needed a higher volume can they may have sent me one to test.

I have had many dealings and tech conversations with shanan over the years. The fact they are sending me a new shock (that i did not ask for and actually said was not needed) is great customer service. add in the volume spacers and the other info he helped me with and you have a winner. I have always been a huge fan of manitou, but today takes the cake. 

Go buy manitou products. Businesses like this deserve our patronage. I think it's time for me to upgrade my minute to a mattoc.

Will update my review with the new shock in the coming days


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> Was talking to man it out over the last few days. Sent them the video I posted here and they decided to send me a new shock. Hey said it did not sound normal and they wanted to bring it in. We talked about the spring rate and a few other technical spots as well. They are sending the shock to me with a few volume spacers to play with that will soon be available to the public. Also made mention that a few high volume air cans are being tested and should be available in the near future as well. I got the feeling that if my bike was progressive and needed a higher volume can they may have sent me one to test.
> 
> I have had many dealings and tech conversations with shanan over the years. The fact they are sending me a new shock (that i did not ask for and actually said was not needed) is great customer service. add in the volume spacers and the other info he helped me with and you have a winner. I have always been a huge fan of manitou, but today takes the cake.
> 
> ...


Man, that is great. I am actually waiting on the HV can to get the Mcleod.

Also, I thought you had a 29er? Do you know something else?

edit. OK, I saw you had a bantam, which is a 27.5 bike. Yes, I would get the Mattoc. Very nice fork.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Great to see all the positives for Manitou and the McLeod. Still holding out hope for a 29er version of the Mattoc. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Question for those with a lot more knowledge than I have.

I have a 2002 Specialized FSR, 90mm travel. I currently run my McLeod in the 3rd setting to get the platform I am looking for. Would I benefit from the larger air volume can?


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## Trajan (Feb 9, 2004)

alphajaguars said:


> Question for those with a lot more knowledge than I have.
> 
> I have a 2002 Specialized FSR, 90mm travel. I currently run my McLeod in the 3rd setting to get the platform I am looking for. Would I benefit from the larger air volume can?


No, the can won't alter the platform.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

alphajaguars said:


> Question for those with a lot more knowledge than I have.
> 
> I have a 2002 Specialized FSR, 90mm travel. I currently run my McLeod in the 3rd setting to get the platform I am looking for. Would I benefit from the larger air volume can?


Which setting are you talking about? The Aggressive Climb or Aggressive Trail? Where are you looking for more platform? When you are climbing or at other times. You can try adding more air to decrease the sag but this will have other affects on how your suspension rides.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Larger air can is for people who can not get full travel with a standard air can.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> Man, that is great. I am actually waiting on the HV can to get the Mcleod.
> 
> Also, I thought you had a 29er? Do you know something else?
> 
> edit. OK, I saw you had a bantam, which is a 27.5 bike. Yes, I would get the Mattoc. Very nice fork.


Your wait for a hv can should be ending soon. Sounds like they including a feature for tuning the volume of the second sleeve that is similar to rockshox tuning bands, but better. (Nothing to purchase, just move the position of an oring.)


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Hope they get some reviews of the shock as well. Seems to be completely ignored.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Larger air can is for people who can not get full travel with a standard air can.


Not necessarily about full travel, there are people who want a more linear and less progressive feel. The new cans will do that.

I have one here to test. But due to a large number of other factors and winter I haven't yet ridden it.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

gregnash said:


> Which setting are you talking about? The Aggressive Climb or Aggressive Trail? Where are you looking for more platform? When you are climbing or at other times. You can try adding more air to decrease the sag but this will have other affects on how your suspension rides.


I have the IPA on the 3rd "hardest" setting. It gives me a decent platform to control the FSR and yet still opens nicely for the bumps.

I was wondering if a higher volume air can would allow me to keep the performance but reduce the air pressure needed to get it.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok so you are in the aggressive climb setting then. I don't think what you are looking for will be don't with a HV can. My understanding is that the HV can will add more air CAPACITY allowing the suspension to react differently. Sounds like what you are looking for is a shock that has a very stiff platform but great small bump compliance and mid-stroke. That, I believe, is only something that you will get with either a custom tune or with a piggyback style shock. I am still learning this shock/suspension game so I could be completely wrong.


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## EndurBro (Apr 17, 2014)

Excuse my ignorance, does the Mcleod equate to say a medium/medium tune or does it have a wider functional range because of the extra compression setting?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Got another ride in today. I lowered the pressure to 135 psi. I felt more pedal bob at that level, either that or I was paying more attention. The third setting on the IPA was a touch harsh for small bump compliance. This shock keeps me connected very well. Climbing is excellent on rough, rocky and rooty stuff, got a PR today on a technical climb. The downhill capacity of the shock is impressive. Very smooth. I have been keeping the IPA at position 2 for most everything. The rebound is closer to slow side but not much.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

HV can will alter the spring curve - more linear. You will have to run more air pressure to have the same sag or bottomout control. Suspension type and rider weight influence air can volume. The new school of spring curve dynamics is too enlarge the negative air chamber. As a heavier / aggressive rider I don't mix well w/ HV cans.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

EndurBro said:


> Excuse my ignorance, does the Mcleod equate to say a medium/medium tune or does it have a wider functional range because of the extra compression setting?


It really depends on the bike you are riding and what the Tune of that shock is. The FLOAT that mine replaced was a Medium/Medium tune with boost valve. However, I think the functionality is wider simply because the shock is aimed more for a "type of riding" vs a specific tune, per say.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Got my replacement McLeod today. After install, it's clear that something was up with my old one, this one is much quieter. Will post an updated review after I get a back to back ride in with my Monarch again.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> Got my replacement McLeod today. After install, it's clear that something was up with my old one, this one is much quieter. Will post an updated review after I get a back to back ride in with my Monarch again.


Will be interested to see how it compares to the other one you had given that you seemed to quite like it even though it had something up with it. Have you asked to Manitou to let you know what was up with it once they get it back?

Also, a review - Grams Light Bikes - Mountain Bike Gear Reviewing : Just In - Manitou McLeod Rear Shock - interesting to see that Manitou made a custom sized shock for the guys bike, that's not something many companies would likely want to do.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Kiwiplague said:


> Will be interested to see how it compares to the other one you had given that you seemed to quite like it even though it had something up with it. Have you asked to Manitou to let you know what was up with it once they get it back?
> 
> Also, a review - Grams Light Bikes - Mountain Bike Gear Reviewing : Just In - Manitou McLeod Rear Shock - interesting to see that Manitou made a custom sized shock for the guys bike, that's not something many companies would likely want to do.


This is also the first time I have seen the shock on a dw linked bike. The fact that it works straight from the factory on that bike, as well as a single pivot Santa Cruz, is pretty amazing. For comparison, a Fox or Rockshock in a M/M tune feels like crap on a dw linked bike.

Also, take a look at the fork on his bike - that does not look like a magnum to me....


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Kiwiplague said:


> Will be interested to see how it compares to the other one you had given that you seemed to quite like it even though it had something up with it. Have you asked to Manitou to let you know what was up with it once they get it back?
> 
> Also, a review - Grams Light Bikes - Mountain Bike Gear Reviewing : Just In - Manitou McLeod Rear Shock - interesting to see that Manitou made a custom sized shock for the guys bike, that's not something many companies would likely want to do.


I'm curious to see if it changes as well. My theory is that the ifp pressure was low and that could cause the kick on square edge stuff I was feeling. I checked and it did have ifp pressure but no idea how much. I did ask for an update when they get it.

I saw that review on Facebook. The biggest plus about the McLeod not having a self regulating negative air chamber is that it can easily be spaced down to odd sizes. I'm still blown away by the small bump sensitivity it has with the spring design.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

That is a pretty good first impression review. Like how Manitou was willing to work with him and get him a custom shock to fit the DW Link Ripley. Not sure if it is the 27.5 or 29er version but looks to be a Fat B Nimble on front which would mean that is a Magnum. I am still holding out/hoping for a 29er Mattoc but if that doesn't seem like it is going to happen I may just bite the bullet and do a Magnum 27.5 up front with a normal 29er tire (buddy and I believe that the +/mid-fat thing is just a marketing trend).


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gregnash said:


> That is a pretty good first impression review. Like how Manitou was willing to work with him and get him a custom shock to fit the DW Link Ripley. Not sure if it is the 27.5 or 29er version but looks to be a Fat B Nimble on front which would mean that is a Magnum. I am still holding out/hoping for a 29er Mattoc but if that doesn't seem like it is going to happen I may just bite the bullet and do a Magnum 27.5 up front with a normal 29er tire (buddy and I believe that the +/mid-fat thing is just a marketing trend).


Just asked manitou. Direct quote "unfortunately there are no plans to release a 29inch mattoc"


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> Just asked manitou. Direct quote "unfortunately there are no plans to release a 29inch mattoc"


I think I need to go drink now...... a lot......*sigh*


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I guess I'm not surprised, but bummed none the less. If they were to use the same uppers, a 29 would only go out to 150. The magnum 29 can be stretched to 140. I don't currently need anything longer than 140, so I guess a Magnum is in my hopefully not to distant future. Just wished they wouldn't have jumped on the boost bandwagon.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm not sure why the would skip a 29 inch mattoc unless something else is in the works. It's a pretty big hole in the line up. I wish manitou had a bigger budget.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I agree that I feel there is a gap in there lineup now. Seems like they have a great fork to cover every aspect of riding for 27.5 and even 26 but the 29ers are left to the wayside a bit. 

I also wish they hadn't jumped on the boost bandwagon. Guess a Magnum will be in my future next year (doing the Cruisers suspension this year). 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Trajan (Feb 9, 2004)

Maybe a new tower 34?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

My 140 Lefty matches the McLeod perfectly on my 27.5 Prophet.


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

Got the McLeod mounted to my Horsethief with some Fox polymer du bushings. The install went smooth, all in all a really simple job. Will be taking it for a ride later this week to see how it feels.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

First gen or new split pivot Horsetheif?


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

gregnash said:


> First gen or new split pivot Horsetheif?


First gen so it's a single pivot/flexstay.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok nice. Should to great regardless. I love it on my Horst Link bike.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Just heard from manitou. I was correct with my guess, air in the damper causing cavitation. I'm surprised that I considered it a reasonably good shock with this issue. I think it's partially from running Ipa full open and being on a fairly smooth trail keeping cavitation down for the most part. If it ever stops raining in the Midwest I will post an update. Only have one short ride on the replacement.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Just heard from manitou. I was correct with my guess, air in the damper causing cavitation. I'm surprised that I considered it a reasonably good shock with this issue. I think it's partially from running Ipa full open and being on a fairly smooth trail keeping cavitation down for the most part. If it ever stops raining in the Midwest I will post an update. Only have one short ride on the replacement.


Air in the damper doesn't cause cavitation. It just causes foaming of the oil. Which is likely what you heard.

Cavitation comes from not having enough ifp pressure and vacuum forming above the piston on fast compression.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Air in the damper doesn't cause cavitation. It just causes foaming of the oil. Which is likely what you heard.
> 
> Cavitation comes from not having enough ifp pressure and vacuum forming above the piston on fast compression.


 I'm just quoting manitou. Here is what they wrote:

n Jul 15, 2015 3:20 PM, "Techsupport" <[email protected]> wrote:
Got your shock back. Sounds even worse in person. Surprised to hear it was working so well as the fluid is highly cavitated. Almost sounds like the IFP pressure is leaking into the oil chamber. Typically when that happens there is travel loss caused by the IFP creeping up which I am not seeing so I do not think that is what is happening. Not sure of a root cause yet, it is an interesting one for sure.

Shanan Barth l Shock Technician

I only have about 4 miles on the replacement, but the kick I felt on square edge stuff is gone. Small bump is worse though and I'm still not ready to ditch my monarch for it. I want to give it a fair chance, so I'm going to keep it on for a few weeks to break it in and get it set up properly for me, then do a back to back.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Cavitation and aeration are mistakenly used interchangeably quite often. Cavitation will cause noise and even pitting on the shims and piston face. However, it takes much higher shaft speed to cause it than what you can do with a bounce test.

When the oil is aerated, damping is reduced and the symptoms fit this perfectly, lack of hsr and good compliance. The aeration can be caused either by gas leaking past the ifp or it can be sucked/forced in from the air chamber past the shaft seal. Ifp hadn't moved significantly, it was probably just a bad bleed from the factory. I'm not surprised small bump is worst now that the damping has been restored, but on the flip rebound is better. Thanks for the update.



mullen119 said:


> I'm just quoting manitou. Here is what they wrote:
> 
> n Jul 15, 2015 3:20 PM, "Techsupport" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Got your shock back. Sounds even worse in person. Surprised to hear it was working so well as the fluid is highly cavitated. Almost sounds like the IFP pressure is leaking into the oil chamber. Typically when that happens there is travel loss caused by the IFP creeping up which I am not seeing so I do not think that is what is happening. Not sure of a root cause yet, it is an interesting one for sure.
> ...


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

See now I think that the small bump compliance is stellar compared to the two shocks that I have ridden. Ultimately you have 4miles on it so there may be some slight adjusting that needs to be done along with other tuning and break-in. 

I bet once you have a few more hours on the bike you will have to "retune" everything a bit and you will feel better about the small bump compliance. I have my rebound set almost dead middle, sag at about 25% and psi is 120 if I remember correctly. I probably have a good 40+hrs on the shock so I am thinking that I may do an oil change on it soon and see how things are looking (probably my Revy could use it too).


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Greg, I didn't mean to imply that the small bump isn't good. I should have said that it doesn't surprise me that the small bump was firmer with the new shock Mullen received. Keep in mind Mullen is doing a back to back comparison with a RT3. Have you compared your McLeod with a latest gen RT3? A Fox RP/CTD boost valve isn't hard to beat.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

ktm520 said:


> Greg, I didn't mean to imply that the small bump isn't good. I should have said that it doesn't surprise me that the small bump was firmer with the new shock Mullen received. Keep in mind Mullen is doing a back to back comparison with a RT3. Have you compared your McLeod with a latest gen RT3? A Fox RP/CTD boost valve isn't hard to beat.


And Mullen has optimized it. I run a Kashima coated Pushed RP23 that has been tweaked twice before I really liked it. I would be shocked if a stock shock could beat it. So I am not surprised that the Mullens custom tuned RT3 is better.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

No worries dude. My Thumper came with a CTD boost valve but was very underwhelmed by it. The FOX just didn't do a whole lot, then it eventually felt like I sagged super far into the shock or it was seriously harsh. But I have read that people have problems with it and with getting it PUSHED or tuned by Avalanche then I was looking at the cost of the McLeod. 

But I do agree that the stock McLeod going up a custom tuned shock is hard. 


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Hi All, I did not get reply from manitou more thank week about air canister size. Maybe someone here can help me. I already ordered McLeod to replace my faulty Monarch RT3 '11 on Mondraker Foxy. But I'm not sure if the air canister size is right for my bike. It has progressive leverage ratio from 2.7 to 2.3. On my old Monarch I used big air canister reduced with few stripes of cut inner tube, no exact measure.

New Mondrakers come with small air canisters on fox shocks, old ones had XV canisters on boostvalve equipped fox shocks. But I'm not sure if new models has changed leverage curve.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Hi All, I did not get reply from manitou more thank week about air canister size. Maybe someone here can help me. I already ordered McLeod to replace my faulty Monarch RT3 '11 on Mondraker Foxy. But I'm not sure if the air canister size is right for my bike. It has progressive leverage ratio from 2.7 to 2.3. On my old Monarch I used big air canister reduced with few stripes of cut inner tube, no exact measure.
> 
> New Mondrakers come with small air canisters on fox shocks, old ones had XV canisters on boostvalve equipped fox shocks. But I'm not sure if new models has changed leverage curve.


The new air cans aren't yet available. But will be a straight swap screw on upgrade when they are.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> The new air cans aren't yet available. But will be a straight swap screw on upgrade when they are.


Dougal, are current air cans larger, or the same size as fox?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Not sure that it really matters for the can size rather the compression ratios for the internals. The McLeod is setup to be an AM/Enduro can so the compression ratio, I believe, will be a bit higher to compensate for chunkier terrain vs. the Float CTD Boostvalve which seems to be more aimed at an XC bike. The new cans will not be available for a bit from what I heard as they are dealing with some supplier issues (had the same issue with the release of the McLeod) so I would give it a try as-is before you worry about buying the different can.

@Dougal - you had talked about working on a service guide for the shock at one point, I thought. Any chance you have this written down somewhere? Thinking of doing a oil change in mine, have roughly 100 miles on it, and Manitou has given me some information for testing.


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## brodaty (Jun 22, 2015)

First moments with McLeod were great! It works a lot better than my fox triad. I have one question. What is proper psi for 90kg (198 pound) rider?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

brodaty said:


> First moments with McLeod were great! It works a lot better than my fox triad. I have one question. What is proper psi for 90kg (198 pound) rider?


Ignore the PSI number but start with setting the sag. Start with 25%. Write down the air pressure that gave you that sag number. Now ride. If the bike feels harsh, let out a 3-5 PSI at a time till you get the ride feel you like. If the bike feels too soft and saggy, add 3-5 PSI. Make very small changes. I do this with the rebound set in the middle.

Set sag once, and play with air pressure to get the ride you like. Make sure to keep notes.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

gregnash said:


> Not sure that it really matters for the can size rather the compression ratios for the internals. The McLeod is setup to be an AM/Enduro can so the compression ratio, I believe, will be a bit higher to compensate for chunkier terrain vs. the Float CTD Boostvalve which seems to be more aimed at an XC bike. The new cans will not be available for a bit from what I heard as they are dealing with some supplier issues (had the same issue with the release of the McLeod) so I would give it a try as-is before you worry about buying the different can.


You are right, I'll give it a try as it will arrive. Pity that its gonna take at least 14 days as my supplier is out of stock currently. I'll report here after few rides.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> Ignore the PSI number but start with setting the sag. Start with 25%. Write down the air pressure that gave you that sag number. Now ride. If the bike feels harsh, let out a 3-5 PSI at a time till you get the ride feel you like. If the bike feels too soft and saggy, add 3-5 PSI. Make very small changes. I do this with the rebound set in the middle.
> 
> Set sag once, and play with air pressure to get the ride you like. Make sure to keep notes.


One thing I have noticed is that low pressures do not let the shock fully extended. I'm a light weight at 155 in gear and run 110psi to get 20% sag. At this pressure, the shock is 3-4mm from full extension. In my tests 150psi is the minimum pressure needed to get a reasonable full extension.

I'm sure this varies depending on a few factors when installing the air can. Either way, it's something to consider when measuring sag.


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## brodaty (Jun 22, 2015)

Thank you for your help. Do you know what is the maximum psi of McLeod? I can't find it in manual


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Good question... highest I have seen written about is 150psi.. but that is for a 250+lbs rider (super clyde) and he is hard on his toys. He has been very happy with it so far but only been riding for a few weeks. 

Can always shoot Manitou an email, they are normally very responsive.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Dougal, are current air cans larger, or the same size as fox?


It's not a question I can really answer. Fox have several size air-cans, not only doubles, but standard singles, high volume singles and volume spacers inside too.

To compare them head to head you'd need to dyno them all or measure all the volumes and start with a lot of engineering simulations. Sorry to say I haven't bothered doing any of that.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I now have 6 rides on the McLeod. I love this shock. I have been playing with pressure, rebound and IPA LS compression. I weigh 180 or so with gear and Camelback. I have been running 135 psi on the shock. I have rebound set at 60% to slower side. I have the LS Compression IPA set on #2. This is what works for me so far. The ride is super smooth and the tires stay connected to the trail. Matches my PBR Lefty like a charm.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Just messing around today I pulled the Mcleod and Tower Pro and reinstalled the Fox Float CTD and the Reba up front.
What a difference.
I monkeyed with settings the entire ride and it still rides like a buckboard over the small stuff.
Big hits are no problem but small bumps and square edges are rough.
I do take about a 1/2lb + off with the switch and have a big ride this weekend (part of my motivation) so I'll leave it for a while. Just long enough to get beat up so I'll appreciate putting the Manitou kit back.


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Is there any experience of this shock compared with a Monarch+ Debonair? Still not sure what to buy for the Giant Trance '15.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

The Monarch+ Debonair is not really a direct comparison as it is not a direct comparison (mono-can vs. piggyback). So you are not going to get the same response curves and what not out of them. 

Remember that Manitou specifically designed the McLeod to compliment the Mattoc fork which is their AM/Trail/Enduro fork (larger hit, stanchion, etc.) so it will be tuned more for that kind of riding, where you are in the chunky, than an XC can. For a single can shock you probably can't go wrong with it on the Trance if you are doing a lot of Trail+ style riding (what I consider more terrain than plain flow with rock gardens, chunky, hucks, etc.).


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> One thing I have noticed is that low pressures do not let the shock fully extended. I'm a light weight at 155 in gear and run 110psi to get 20% sag. At this pressure, the shock is 3-4mm from full extension. In my tests 150psi is the minimum pressure needed to get a reasonable full extension.
> 
> I'm sure this varies depending on a few factors when installing the air can. Either way, it's something to consider when measuring sag.


Just as a side note, for riders running lower pressures you can use a trick to get the negative spring volume lower so get it to fully extend better at lower pressures.....

Unscrew the aircan..
Get a nice hot hairdryer, and heat up the aircan and damper.
Then put the aircan back on.
The negative volume is fixed when the aircan is put on.
So putting it on with hot air reduces the volume of air in the can when it cools.

This trick can also be done to improve start stroke performance with frames with a very digressive start of stroke. E.g. most Santa Cruz

Scar


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

gregnash said:


> The Monarch+ Debonair is not really a direct comparison as it is not a direct comparison (mono-can vs. piggyback). So you are not going to get the same response curves and what not out of them.
> 
> Remember that Manitou specifically designed the McLeod to compliment the Mattoc fork which is their AM/Trail/Enduro fork (larger hit, stanchion, etc.) so it will be tuned more for that kind of riding, where you are in the chunky, than an XC can. For a single can shock you probably can't go wrong with it on the Trance if you are doing a lot of Trail+ style riding (what I consider more terrain than plain flow with rock gardens, chunky, hucks, etc.).


My ride is more AM and Trail style. I want the best performance, sensitive with good support. If I can get it with the McLeod why I should spend more for the Monarch+. That is the point. Advantage of RS is the existing documentation, spare parts support here in Germany and mainly good feedback in combination with my bike. At the moment you get nothing for the McLeod. Difference in costs are ~100€ between both shocks.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Lutsch said:


> My ride is more AM and Trail style. I want the best performance, sensitive with good support. If I can get it with the McLeod why I should spend more for the Monarch+. That is the point. Advantage of RS is the existing documentation, spare parts support here in Germany and mainly good feedback in combination with my bike. At the moment you get nothing for the McLeod. Difference in costs are ~100€ between both shocks.


Very true but the thing you have to remember is that the McLeod was not released to market until Feb/March this year (2015). The Monarch has been around in multiple version for number of years and the + Debonair is the only new portion that requires some feedback. Again not an apples to apples comparison due to the fact that the + is a piggyback shock (different performance) and the Debonair is a larger, high-volume can (which Manitou is going to be releasing soon). I would say the only real apples to apples comparison would be for the Monarch RT3 to the McLeod.

In any case I am sure that you will be happy with the McLeod, read the reviews that are popping up (read the GramLight review for sure) and you will see that pretty much everyone agrees that mid-stroke compliance is great, small bump compliance is awesome and the shock sits high in the stroke.


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi Guys,
I've ordered a Mcleod, but would like to have a remote to control it. I emailed Manitou and their remote kit is available now! Unfortunately, I can't find it anywhere. Anyone know where this is available from (P/N: 142-31535-K027)? Dougal, do you have these in stock?
Alternatively, anyone got thoughts on how to set up a SRAM grip shift to actuate a Mcleod? I've not seen the remote from Manitou yet and am thinking this may be a neater solution overall.
Does anyone have , or can measure, the cable pull required for full travel on the shock platform adjustment?
Cheers,


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

You'd have to get the Manitou Kit.
The kit includes the spring that fits under the lever on the shock to give the pull tension required to make the IPA go back to zero when releasing at the handlebar lever.


Scar
P.s. unless you were looking to bodge another spring in there.


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## Scott5272 (Apr 8, 2014)

So what is the consensus on this shock and what it's good for? On manitous site is shows xc and all mountain for the McLeod but the radium includes trail. 

Will this be good for drops and jumps? On a '14 trance 1. I have a mattoc but need to install it still.


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

scar4me said:


> You'd have to get the Manitou Kit.


Easier said than done, unless you know a retailer who has the kit in stock? I can't find one.

I have contacted the guys at Manitou for advice and must say they have been fantastic!


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

It will be good for jumps and drops. Whatever the Mattoc is designed for, so is the McLeod. Check out Eric Porter talking about it. He says Trail, AM, Enduro, XC and Bike Parks.

I love mine. Excellent shock.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Still really enjoying mine for XC riding. Tames the FSR very well while still allowing it to be active in the bumps.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Had a first ride on McLeod today and I have to say that I'm impressed. 
It got traction where my old Monarch RT3 '12 got none. Its very stable in high speed over rough stuff. Everything is well controlled and balanced. I haven't ever had so stable ride and I've set new personal record on my local trail. It feels like I have much more travel than I actually do.
I had no problem to set it up, rebound is a bit on faster side from the middle, SAG 30% ~130psi. 
IPA works great, my frame has large amount of antisquat, so platform is not needed, but it helps on my way uphill and its still very plush. Even if IPA set to maximum its quite plush, but nice platform to pedal up.

I have to go to bike park to check big hit performance, but I believe that McLeod will not disappoint.

After this ride I started to think if my Monarch RT3 '12 was broken since the day 1, or intended to be a crap shock


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

@RoboS what frame are you riding?


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

@RoboS I have a Mcleod on order to replace a '12 monarch, It's good to hear such positive feedback on the new shock.


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## Scott5272 (Apr 8, 2014)

Same here. Just ordered mine the other day to replace the '14 Fox float CTD that came on my trance 1


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Post up pics of your bikes and ride reports when you get them installed boys!!!!


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

gregnash said:


> @RoboS what frame are you riding?


I ride Mondraker Foxy '11 size L
McLeod replaced Monarch RT3 tune L3 '12. I tried different tunes H3,M3, L3 and few custom tunes, but none of them really worked. That shock had platform feel even if it was off.
Its a nice combo with Mattoc.

Here is a quick snapshot of it


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Finally I will try the McLeod in my Trance too. I switch from the Fox CTD and Monarch RT3 (custom tuned, but not 100% for this frame, 2011 model). The Monarch was ok but did some strange clicking in pedal mode what I was able to feel. CTD was ok in T mode in decent the LSC is too low.
Have to wait some days for the shock so be patient for first feedback and pictures.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

My MV with it's Mcleod. Have had one decent ride on it so far (detailed a few posts back), but it's been quite wet lately, so haven't been able to get out much more lately


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## Scott5272 (Apr 8, 2014)

I've have just received mine in the mail and installed it. I did set sag.

Does this sound normal to everyone? I am coming from a Fox Float CTD so these noises are unusual to me. Is it just the loud sound of the oil?




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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Funny thing I had to actually go check min Scott.... Yes mine makes the exact same noise. But I honestly say that I never have noticed it before.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Mine makes a kind of zip and squishy noise under hard compression. From what a few of the other guys have said here, it does tend to be a noisy shock, but I don't think it makes any difference to how it works (at least it doesn't with mine).


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## Palirojo (Sep 27, 2006)

Here is mine on my black market roam, shock has done really well so far but the bike is very progressive so I am waiting to grab the larger air can.


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## riiz (Jul 8, 2010)

Palirojo said:


> Here is mine on my black market roam, shock has done really well so far but the bike is very progressive so I am waiting to grab the larger air can.
> View attachment 1005988


Thats a sick looking bike, love the white Mattoc, are those decals or paint for that camo look on the lowers?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Palirojo said:


> Here is mine on my black market roam, shock has done really well so far but the bike is very progressive so I am waiting to grab the larger air can.
> View attachment 1005988


Very sick indeed! Im loving the look of that Mattoc, just like the old camouflaged Travis:








And that blackmarket frame is very progressive indeed... I'm curious how much more linear you can make the bike...


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## Palirojo (Sep 27, 2006)

double post


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## Palirojo (Sep 27, 2006)

I did the camo because I always wanted a sherman. Its actually black, silver and gold sharpie which "should" come off with alcohol if I get tired of it. As for the the progressiveness, I just discovered that its not the frame but the mcleod isn't using its whole stroke and is bottoming early.

This is with the shock fully deflated and this is all it will compress. If anyone has any ideas on whats up with it I would appreciate the help.


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

I got my shock but will take some time to test it. Before that the Bike has to go to the LBS for an issue.

At the shock itself I can feel the 4 different IPA positions of the dialer. But I have some movements besides these 4 positions, so I can turn the dialer in position "0.5" and "4.5". I guess on the trail it is not so easy to find direct the definite dialer position. 
Is this free movement normal?


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

Palirojo said:


> Here is mine on my black market roam, shock has done really well so far but the bike is very progressive so I am waiting to grab the larger air can.


Could be good candidate for a reduced negative spring pressure re-build, as outlined earlier in the thread. Pull the shock down and reassemble with hot air in the negative chamber.

Edit: Or maybe not...


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Scott5272 said:


> I've have just received mine in the mail and installed it. I did set sag.
> 
> Does this sound normal to everyone? I am coming from a Fox Float CTD so these noises are unusual to me. Is it just the loud sound of the oil?
> 
> ...


Any first experience of the McLeod in the Giant Trance?


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## Scott5272 (Apr 8, 2014)

Unfortunately no. I have not been able to go for any rides yet. Maybe in a couple days. 


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Contact Manitou with that pic Palirojo and see what they say. Normally will get back to you in about a day. I get full compression on mine when riding, have the ring maybe 2 or 3mm from the edge.


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## jjyoung (Jul 14, 2008)

what year trance frame? I see there is no mcLeod offered in 7.25x1.75 which my 2011 trance x frame requires


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## riiz (Jul 8, 2010)

jjyoung said:


> what year trance frame? I see there is no mcLeod offered in 7.25x1.75 which my 2011 trance x frame requires


Call Manitou, they will do custom sizes for the Mcleod.


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## jjyoung (Jul 14, 2008)

I did call Manitou and talked to service manager. They claim it's not available.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jjyoung said:


> what year trance frame? I see there is no mcLeod offered in 7.25x1.75 which my 2011 trance x frame requires


It's possible to get a 7.5/2 and install a spacer internally to bring it down to 7.25/1.75.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Palirojo said:


> I did the camo because I always wanted a sherman. Its actually black, silver and gold sharpie which "should" come off with alcohol if I get tired of it. As for the the progressiveness, I just discovered that its not the frame but the mcleod isn't using its whole stroke and is bottoming early.
> 
> This is with the shock fully deflated and this is all it will compress. If anyone has any ideas on whats up with it I would appreciate the help.
> 
> View attachment 1006121


Now, pump the shock back up and measure the distance from the seal to the O-ring. What is that distance? If it is a 2" shock, that distance may be closer to 1.75". Manitou uses a big bottom out bumper to control the bottom out. Same thing that PUSH uses in their big hit kit.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Palirojo said:


> I did the camo because I always wanted a sherman. Its actually black, silver and gold sharpie which "should" come off with alcohol if I get tired of it. As for the the progressiveness, I just discovered that its not the frame but the mcleod isn't using its whole stroke and is bottoming early.
> 
> This is with the shock fully deflated and this is all it will compress. If anyone has any ideas on whats up with it I would appreciate the help.
> 
> View attachment 1006121


What is the length/stroke?


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## Palirojo (Sep 27, 2006)

shock is supposed to be 200x57


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Palirojo said:


> shock is supposed to be 200x57


That size compress until only the last ~3mm of shock body is remaining. Something inside is stopping yours.

Call your local Manitou agent.


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## Palirojo (Sep 27, 2006)

I emailed them so we will see


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Can anyone give a statement regarding the IPA adjustment lever? I have 4 dedicated positions like given by Manitou but the lever can be set a little for/after position 1/4. Is this a regular behavior? 
I guess on the ride it will be not easy to get the lever directly in the desired position.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Lutsch said:


> Can anyone give a statement regarding the IPA adjustment lever? I have 4 dedicated positions like given by Manitou but the lever can be set a little for/after position 1/4. Is this a regular behavior?
> I guess on the ride it will be not easy to get the lever directly in the desired position.


The IPA is actually a continuous adjustment with detents. IOW, the detents are only there to give you a reference. You can put the lever anywhere from fully open to fully closed or anywhere in between the settings.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lutsch said:


> Can anyone give a statement regarding the IPA adjustment lever? I have 4 dedicated positions like given by Manitou but the lever can be set a little for/after position 1/4. Is this a regular behavior?
> I guess on the ride it will be not easy to get the lever directly in the desired position.


Position 1 is set by a set screw. Position 4 is set by a hard stop on the shaft. As Lutsch said you can run it anywhere.


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Yes, I can set it anywhere between 1 and 4. But furthermore a little before 1 and after 4. So it is more or less a 0.5 and 4.5 position. Based on your reply this seems to be okay, right?


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## jjyoung (Jul 14, 2008)

Are you talking about spacer to bring eye to eye length down to 7.25"? Or travel to 1.75"? Bringing travel down is easy, it's the eye to eye length spacer I need. Where do I find such?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jjyoung said:


> Are you talking about spacer to bring eye to eye length down to 7.25"? Or travel to 1.75"? Bringing travel down is easy, it's the eye to eye length spacer I need. Where do I find such?


A top-out spacer does both.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey All;

I will preface this by saying I have read nothing of this thread but the test that *gregnash* posted some time ago. He was a major contributor to a thread I started on the 29er components forum about the Manitou Tower fork, so I wanted to come in and return the favor here.

I will begin by offering that I am a Clyde; one of those people that no one builds components for. Not gargantuan at 6'5"/240, but I tend to fall comfortably outside the set-up/performance range of many of the products available, suspension being a major one of those. Perhaps part of the problem is a lack of ignorance on my part when it comes to how suspension should work and feel when it is tuned properly. I'm here to tell you it is indeed not a blissful thing, and while I have managed to get various products to work for me over the years, it is sometimes not without more chicanery than should be necessary, or is necessary for the average rider.

When I bought my Niner RIP9 4 years ago, I was quite excited to have my first 9er, and finally have a bike that fit my stature, which it does quite well. It truly is a good XL size machine! I was then quite disillusioned to find that the suspension simply did not perform as I had hoped. Not even CLOSE. The Manitou Tower Pro fork that I bought was a bag of mush as delivered, and the Fox RP23 shock was no better. Nearly two long years working with Manitou directly, waiting for and then trying various one off custom parts, managed to give me a fork that worked decently, if not perfectly, but that RP23 was just ruining the bike completely. The overriding fact that it needed to be rebuilt every _2 minutes_ made me loathe to pursue having it PUSHed, for why would I spend that kind of money on a fussy baby like that? Quite frankly, the bike sat unridden for much of the last couple of years. I developed a distinct passion for Fatbikes in that time, which made it easier to avoid the Niner problem. Still, in the back of my mind I knew I had a great bike that was unrideable, and it bummed me out. Enter the McLeod.

I had been made aware as long as 2 years ago that Manitou was working on a new air shock, and I had immediately put in my fervent request (I tried not to be too pushy!) for a sample to try out. Short of showing up at headquarters and groveling at the door, I tried to make it plain how desperate I was to make this bike work as I had dreamed it would. I am nobodies idea of a pro rider by any means, yet I do offer no small degree of challenge to any suspension product, particularly as I am a fairly bold descender, and have developed the ability to offer good feedback on the performance of these things. As good as the pro riders that companies use for testing are, aint none of them tipping the scales anywhere near 240, and it does indeed make a big difference. The long wait was punctuated by several queries as to progress, and even requests for an insider's opinion on what other shock in their line would work for me in the interim. I was repeatedly told to be patient, and to wait for the McLeod, as it was EXACTLY what I needed. I'm not that patient!

I got one. At long last, I GOT ONE! Was it worth the wait? You have no idea!! It may be impossible not to color my opinion of this shock with shades of the anguish I suffered at the hands of the miserable RP23, but I will offer you the baseline notion that, while I have not yet landed on the perfect arrangement for me, I have yet to find a setting at which the McLeod does not work very nicely. In only a handful of rides, I may be willing to state that this is the most versatile suspension component I have ever experienced (when tuned by the means intended), and I have yet to find a setup that flat failed. Juxtapose that with the fact that I never found any settings that made the RP23 work at all well.

The main problem with most air sprung suspension components is that eventually you will reach a point where the spring rate hits a wall of progression. Many people of smaller stature never experience that, but at 240lbs I am always pushing past the limits that most components are designed for. Air is not a linear substance when compressed; it can be very plush initially, but then rapidly gets VERY resistant to compressing further at some point, unlike a coil spring that remains linear throughout its travel. Only in recent years have designers gotten close to the linear feel of a steel coil spring, and in my initial tests, the McLeod passes that test gloriously.

Plush. That is the overriding word for the McLeod. In controlled (as best I could) ride testing, using various pressures with the first three damper settings (the fourth is a "lockout"), I have tried pressures from 80psi all the way to 150 and measured the travel used for each setting. I have ridden on the trails at anywhere from 130 to 160. Obviously, 80psi is not going to work for me, but it was informative regarding spring progression and resistance to bottom out. Regardless of what pressure or damper setting I have tried, I have never experienced the "spike" that normally accompanies the point where air pressure is too high for the design of the air can or the damper arrangement, yet neither have a felt it bottom out. No matter what I did, the RP23 would ride very low in its travel. 100, 110, 120, 130, even 140psi, and it just sagged. New can seals made little difference. Mush. Yet, 140 was the wall where the can design just could not manage the compression any longer, and the initial plushness of the travel was met with a hard spike of stiffness as the shock passed half travel.

Conversely, I have yet to find any settings at which the McLeod does this. It rides reasonably high in its stroke at 120 but does not bottom (that I could tell). I initially governed motion by using 130psi and then the 3 damper settings. #1 was really too soft for anything but hard descending on extremely rough terrain. #2 was overall quite good, but a little soft for lots of cadence pedaling on flatter ground, where #3 worked very well. I am currently raising pressures higher and higher in an effort to find the spot where I can ride in damper position #1 (the least "platform"), and still get full travel while maintaining decent midstroke resistance. I'm currently at 160psi and am very close to perfect. I'd prefer to find one perfect spot and leave it there!

Suffice to say that Manitou have done a BRILLIANT job designing the air can on this thing. And, it gets even better. I have been told of new doodads repeatedly over the last few years, followed shortly by, "but don't say anything." Well, _ballshirt_. They have a new high volume air can in development that is supposed to REALLY blow up the performance of these things, offering higher midstroke resistance while still allowing full travel to be achieved. Think about those two opposing parameters for a moment, and then think how great that would be, particularly if you are a large dude that needs the support!

For those of you who have not fallen asleep or run screaming already; if you are looking for a versatile piece of kit, this shock seems to fill the bill. The many settings I have tried so far have yet to make it perform BADLY, and coming from a place where I could not MAKE the shock do anything BUT perform badly, that is quite a revelation! Now, if Manitou could only get them to market!?!?


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Palirojo said:


> I did the camo because I always wanted a sherman. Its actually black, silver and gold sharpie which "should" come off with alcohol if I get tired of it. As for the the progressiveness, I just discovered that its not the frame but the mcleod isn't using its whole stroke and is bottoming early.
> 
> This is with the shock fully deflated and this is all it will compress. If anyone has any ideas on whats up with it I would appreciate the help.
> 
> View attachment 1006121


I had to contact manitou tech support, I have the same problem. My shock was sold as 200x56mm, its written on the box. But today I measured it and found that its only 200x50mm.


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## Trajan (Feb 9, 2004)

RoboS said:


> I had to contact manitou tech support, I have the same problem. My shock was sold as 200x56mm, its written on the box. But today I measured it and found that its only 200x50mm.
> View attachment 1006741


Does it go more if you sit on it without air? Manitou uses a rubber bumper that may be the last 5-6 mm.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

J, great write-up and definitely echo all that you have stated (well I think I have stated most of it as well). This shock has truly become something of a fascination with me and I keep wanting to tweak it but cannot ever feel a "bad" setting to really get a good "bad setting" baseline. 

Currently I am sitting at 176lbs (out of the shower this morning) and the shock sitting at about 115psi. This seems perfectly plush to me in just about all settings but I am a seated climber with really not super pedally sections. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I am content with just riding and do not have the suspension knowledge that you do so I can blissfully play the fool. If I had half your knowledge in suspension design I think I would constantly be tweaking this thing.

Now it will be saving the money, away from the wife, to trade in my old Tower for a new 140mm Minute with the trail tune and X-Firm spring (per Shanan at Manitou).


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Trajan said:


> Does it go more if you sit on it without air? Manitou uses a rubber bumper that may be the last 5-6 mm.


I sat on the bike with pump attached and pressure release button pushed. Its firm, like metal to metal end of travel. I'm not aware on any bottom out bumper, its not even in tech drawings which were posted before.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

RoboS said:


> I sat on the bike with pump attached and pressure release button pushed. Its firm, like metal to metal end of travel. I'm not aware on any bottom out bumper, its not even in tech drawings which were posted before.


I would call Manitou and have them sort it out. Sounds like the wrong size shock.


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## Palirojo (Sep 27, 2006)

Got word back from manitou that the IFP is leaking and thus reducing the travel as oil gets past it. They said a new one is on the way though, cant beat the customer service.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> I sat on the bike with pump attached and pressure release button pushed. Its firm, like metal to metal end of travel. I'm not aware on any bottom out bumper, its not even in tech drawings which were posted before.


There is a bottom-out bumper. But if you feel metal on metal then the shock doesn't have enough oil and the main piston is hitting the IFP piston before full stroke. The window for IFP placement on these is pretty tight so the occasional one may have issues.

If you have one of these, call/email Manitou and it'll be sorted.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> There is a bottom-out bumper. But if you feel metal on metal then the shock doesn't have enough oil and the main piston is hitting the IFP piston before full stroke. The window for IFP placement on these is pretty tight so the occasional one may have issues.
> 
> If you have one of these, call/email Manitou and it'll be sorted.


Dougal, I contacted Manitou tech support, they are arranging pickup of the shock, they want to have a look at it.
I recorded video of the behavior


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Dougal, I contacted Manitou tech support, they are arranging pickup of the shock, they want to have a look at it.
> I recorded video of the behavior


Yep. That's the piston hitting the IFP inside. It just requires more damper oil and a lower IFP setting which is an easy fix.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Dang it why did I read this thread, now dreaming of a McLeod for my Thunderbolt!!


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

bdundee said:


> Dang it why did I read this thread, now dreaming of a McLeod for my Thunderbolt!!


Stop dreaming and buy one! You won't regret it.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Kiwiplague said:


> Stop dreaming and buy one! You won't regret it.


Yeah, the performance is excellent and I keep saying good things about it even while mine is faulty and needs repair.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

gregnash said:


> J, great write-up and definitely echo all that you have stated (well I think I have stated most of it as well). This shock has truly become something of a fascination with me and I keep wanting to tweak it but cannot ever feel a "bad" setting to really get a good "bad setting" baseline.


Definitely. Its easy to get wallowy and squishy out of it, but it has never felt anywhere near as bad as the hated RP23. It is indeed fascinating to me that it can be far too soft and yet ride up in the travel so high. The RP23 at 140 would sack right flat when climbing, and yet ride spikey as hell on rough stuff.

I keep going up the pressure scale with the McLeod and it has yet to lock up and get spikey like that. Last ride was at 170psi with some pretty rough and very fast descending. I was at about 8/10ths at times, which is above my normal limit (popped two rear spokes!!). I may be at or nearing the point where I no longer get full travel, but it is still as plush as ever and I did not notice that I wasn't getting full travel. I was on a group ride, and so did not "have the time" to tweak and measure, but I'm going to keep going up and see just how far I can push it until it gets grumpy.



> If I had half your knowledge in suspension design I think I would constantly be tweaking this thing.


Pfffff... I only know what I know. It may be more than the average guy that never even fools with his stuff at all, beyond the mythical sag settings, but in the end all I have is a pretty keen sense of what I want -vs what it is doing, and some fair knowledge of what to do to get there. This shock is testing my resolve to keep fiddling, because it works so well I flipping forget about it. Ride over... _damn... I forgot to test again!!!_



> Now it will be saving the money, away from the wife, to trade in my old Tower for a new 140mm Minute with the trail tune and X-Firm spring (per Shanan at Manitou).


I am exceptionally keen to try out the new mega air can for the shock. As for forks, it's the 29+ Magnum for me. I wish he would stop dropping hints about how great the new stuff I can't get yet is!! :madman:


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Hey I got a special request or offer ;-)

I Have changed my frame and now the existing and still new mcleod is of the wrong size.
It is from a bergamont trailster and this is why it has green graphics.

I have a 200*56mm unit and need a 216*63mm unit.

So if here is anyone who would like to exchange his shock with mine, just contact me. Otherwise I´ll just offer it for 215 Euros +shipping instead.

So wether change with me or buy it ;-)


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Faster. That is what the McLeod has done to my bike. The control downhill is phenomenal. I am running 115 to 120 with the IPA on 2. The IPA is so much better than the SPV on the Swinger it replaced, and I liked that shock. Because I have a single pivot without a fancy, anti squat, multi-link rear, the McLeod is the best solution. The smooth delivery of it's travel would make it desirable for any bike, in my opinion. 

I imagine the the Cane Creek shocks with LS compression adjustment would offer a similar benefit, but I have read that many people have had trouble getting those dialed in, and they are super expensive. The McLeod is more than reasonably priced, and as indicated earlier in this thread in some excellent comments and reviews, this shock is easy to dial in and almost impossible to screw it up. 

I have about 350 miles on my McLeod and it seems even better now than when I got it. I have 9 PR's and overall my lap times on 13 to 25 mile loops are faster. I am convinced that the McLeod is the reason. It has poise and strength. Never felt so connected.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm considering a McLeod for my Mattoc equiped Trance 27.5 to replace the Float CTD evo that it got delivered with. I keep hearing about more aircan options coming up. Would it be useful to wait to see what's coming up or would the current can be optimal for the Trance already?

I keep hearing good stuff about this shock even though there are no mainstream reviews. I also like the IPA lever which settings sounds very usable to me and the price is killer.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CS645 said:


> I'm considering a McLeod for my Mattoc equiped Trance 27.5 to replace the Float CTD evo that it got delivered with. I keep hearing about more aircan options coming up. Would it be useful to wait to see what's coming up or would the current can be optimal for the Trance already?
> 
> I keep hearing good stuff about this shock even though there are no mainstream reviews. I also like the IPA lever which settings sounds very usable to me and the price is killer.


The new air cans are swappable onto an existing shock. You can buy a McLeod now and when they're available you can upgrade if you want.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Still don't know if it's worth swapping out my 2015 Monarch debonair on my Thunderbolt just for the sake of trying something different.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Dougal said:


> The new air cans are swappable onto an existing shock. You can buy a McLeod now and when they're available you can upgrade if you want.


Thanks. I reckoned as much, but would depend on the price of the cans. With the shock being only 219,- euro here, swapping a can at say 90,- euro is less attractive. At 40,- it would be okay.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

My second McLeod failed about a week ago. Been working with manitou and they are sending me a third with a new ifp to test. I also switched to a new frame and they are sending it out for the new frame instead of the old which is pretty cool. I will post an update when the time comes.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> My second McLeod failed about a week ago. Been working with manitou and they are sending me a third with a new ifp to test. I also switched to a new frame and they are sending it out for the new frame instead of the old which is pretty cool. I will post an update when the time comes.


That is very cool. 
Glad I invested in the Mcleod. I've got close to 100 hard hours logged on mine and has operated flawlessly other than a bit of a seal squeak that cleared right up with some stanchion lube.
What is the service interval on these?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Barman1 said:


> That is very cool.
> Glad I invested in the Mcleod. I've got close to 100 hard hours logged on mine and has operated flawlessly other than a bit of a seal squeak that cleared right up with some stanchion lube.
> What is the service interval on these?


In passing they mentioned that the McLeod was the first product assembled in house in Wisconsin. Thought that was cool.

Not sure of service intervals yet. My first McLeod was bad the day I got it and the second only lasted a month of on/off use(switching back and forth between it and a debonair). Hopefully third time is the charm. New frame came with a debonair on it and the spring rate doesn't play well with the leverage curve.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

I haven't had any issues with mine since I bought it in March and have logged a couple hundred miles. Maybe bad batch in a specific size?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Glad to hear that somebody got in contact with manitou. They replied my first mail, confirmed that shock was faulty and asking my adress. Sent them everything, but since then I can't get in contact with them, its 12 days. Shock is sitting in box on my table, I can only look at it.
Thats not what I expected from manitou


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

@RoboS
I'd try sending a new email, My experience with Manitou support has been stellar. I'd be very suprised if it's intentional given my dealings with them.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

chopboy said:


> @RoboS
> I'd try sending a new email, My experience with Manitou support has been stellar. I'd be very suprised if it's intentional given my dealings with them.


I tried from my company email just few minutes ago. Hope it was just some spam/junk issue with my private email


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

OK, just now I received new shock from Manitou. Didn't even need to send the old one. Excellent service.


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Finally I decided to go not with the McLeod at my Trance. I had one already on site but the eyelet size is a little larger as at Fox or RS shocks I have. Problem is that at the Trance the shock has to be mounted without a bushing in the eyelet at one site. It was not possible to get it well mounted without very high torque, more as recommended by Giant. Maybe bad luck with tolerances at my frame/McLeod combination. 
It is really pity because I still keen to run this shock based on the overall well feedback.

I already wrote to Manitou international for another topic regarding McLeod and Mattoc but was forwarded to German contact. This was...not very helpful. Seems that service depends a little on the place you live.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lutsch said:


> Finally I decided to go not with the McLeod at my Trance. I had one already on site but the eyelet size is a little larger as at Fox or RS shocks I have. Problem is that at the Trance the shock has to be mounted without a bushing in the eyelet at one site. It was not possible to get it well mounted without very high torque, more as recommended by Giant. Maybe bad luck with tolerances at my frame/McLeod combination.
> It is really pity because I still keen to run this shock based on the overall well feedback.
> 
> I already wrote to Manitou international for another topic regarding McLeod and Mattoc but was forwarded to German contact. This was...not very helpful. Seems that service depends a little on the place you live.


The McLeod eyelet size is exactly the same as RS and Fox. What was the problem that required high torque?

On your bike it uses a 15mm pivot axle through the shock eyelet (~15.08mm-15.1mm). The fitment is the same for all modern shocks.


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Yes, the eyelet diameter is (more or less) the same. I used the same hardware for mounting as used for the Fox shock (including the new Fox eyelet bushing with synthetic material). With the torque given by Giant I feel a little movement in the eyelet. When I lift up the bike from the ground (taken on the frame and not at the saddle) a free movement was noticeable. Not much but noticeable and similar like a worn DU bushing.
After this I used again the same hardware at a Monarch and it was clearly tighter. I was not able to install the bushing by hand. Due to this I used different bushing at the Monarch, till tight but not as much as with the Fox hardware.
I guess a little bad luck with tolerances. Measured the eyelet diameter at pivot axle site too and the Manitou was a little bigger as Fox and RS.


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## Palirojo (Sep 27, 2006)

Lutsch said:


> Yes, the eyelet diameter is (more or less) the same. I used the same hardware for mounting as used for the Fox shock (including the new Fox eyelet bushing with synthetic material). With the torque given by Giant I feel a little movement in the eyelet. When I lift up the bike from the ground (taken on the frame and not at the saddle) a free movement was noticeable. Not much but noticeable and similar like a worn DU bushing.
> After this I used again the same hardware at a Monarch and it was clearly tighter. I was not able to install the bushing by hand. Due to this I used different bushing at the Monarch, till tight but not as much as with the Fox hardware.
> I guess a little bad luck with tolerances. Measured the eyelet diameter at pivot axle site too and the Manitou was a little bigger as Fox and RS.


I have the exact same problem and it drives me crazy!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lutsch said:


> Yes, the eyelet diameter is (more or less) the same. I used the same hardware for mounting as used for the Fox shock (including the new Fox eyelet bushing with synthetic material). With the torque given by Giant I feel a little movement in the eyelet. When I lift up the bike from the ground (taken on the frame and not at the saddle) a free movement was noticeable. Not much but noticeable and similar like a worn DU bushing.
> After this I used again the same hardware at a Monarch and it was clearly tighter. I was not able to install the bushing by hand. Due to this I used different bushing at the Monarch, till tight but not as much as with the Fox hardware.
> I guess a little bad luck with tolerances. Measured the eyelet diameter at pivot axle site too and the Manitou was a little bigger as Fox and RS.


Okay, I didn't realise it was the top eyelet you were having issues with.

To be frank the tolerances on shock eyelets are all over the place. My McLeod is the first shock I have ever measured where both ends were within 0.01mm diameter. I've seen as much as 0.05mm difference between the ends of the same shock (not Manitou).

I make a lot of shock hardware and I've got two methods to get around the variation we get.
The first is to use pre-tensioned bushings with fingers which take up small amounts of play between the eyelet and pin. This lets us send out shock hardware for DIY fitment with about a 90% success rate: 









The second (and best option) is to custom fit each pin to each shock eyelet with an IGUS sleeve bushing. It's time consuming, and therefore expensive, but is the only way to guarantee both the best performance and no knocking or play. Funnily enough I've been using IGUS for a lot longer than anyone else (including fox).

I keep 5 different grade pins in stock to fit the different tolerances and I still have to turn new pins for about half the shocks that come in. But once done properly it's smooth, performs perfectly, is maintenance free and it's good for the life of the bike. If you ride a lot you'll need to replace a bushing (cheapest part) every 2 years or so but the pin stays good as the IGUS bushings don't get abrasive like DU does.

Otherwise, RS hardware is on the smaller side of tolerance. Fox is on the larger side. But I have seen RS shocks on the small and large side and Fox from slightly small to much larger.

The Manitou eyelets can vary depending on the DU bushings fitted. The red DP versions tend to put the pin size size between nominal and Fox sizing. The white/blue Trelleborg DU bushings are fatter and require a smaller tolerance pin.


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

I cannot say definitely if it is upper or lower eyelet but I assume the lower. Upper seems to be okay during mounting. 
For the upper I have several sleeves from IGUS I use for the shocks with some extra bushing. If I want to use the same bushing at different shocks I have to adapt the IGUS sleeves to fit best. Same feedback I got from Huber Bushing with different sleeves for different shock manufacture. For me this sounds like your mentioned solution 2.

But at the Trance there is no sleeve in the lower eyelet so no chance to adjust it. From my point of view this is really pity. Not only for adjustments to work best even more for maintenance and durability.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lutsch said:


> I cannot say definitely if it is upper or lower eyelet but I assume the lower. Upper seems to be okay during mounting.
> For the upper I have several sleeves from IGUS I use for the shocks with some extra bushing. If I want to use the same bushing at different shocks I have to adapt the IGUS sleeves to fit best. Same feedback I got from Huber Bushing with different sleeves for different shock manufacture. For me this sounds like your mentioned solution 2.
> 
> But at the Trance there is no sleeve in the lower eyelet so no chance to adjust it. From my point of view this is really pity. Not only for adjustments to work best even more for maintenance and durability.


The lower eyelet on those Giants is immune from the knocking due to diameter tolerance problems. Because the eyelet is clamped sideways by the lower pin it's not running on the inner bore.

Rest your fingers on the shock eyelet hardware you're suspicious of and gently lift/lower the bike with the other hand. If there is play then you will feel it this way. Even if it's soo minor you can barely see it.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Has anyone retuned the McLeod yet? I would like to use it on a bike with a suspension ratio of 3, which would probably mean the shim stacks need 20% more stiffness.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Palirojo said:


> I have the exact same problem and it drives me crazy!


I have a problem with a loose bushing in mine a well and thought this was the fault of the RWC needle bearing.


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

Have about 50 miles on my McLeod and I'm loving it! Small bump compliance is noticeably better than my Monarch R (I'm using Fox DU bushings so that may have something to do with it as well), everything just feels so smooth now. Seems to pedal/climb about the same as the Monarch R while fully open. And I'm loving the IPA adjustment for the climbs.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

My frame is crazy progressive (Norco sight). Just waiting on the hv can to pick one up. Anyone have an idea on time frame? 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

Dougal said:


> The lower eyelet on those Giants is immune from the knocking due to diameter tolerance problems. Because the eyelet is clamped sideways by the lower pin it's not running on the inner bore.
> 
> Rest your fingers on the shock eyelet hardware you're suspicious of and gently lift/lower the bike with the other hand. If there is play then you will feel it this way. Even if it's soo minor you can barely see it.


I have an Anthem 29er that I've put the Mcleod on and I've got this play in the lower eyelet. Been riding it with the play as I have no alternative at present. I've had the bushing pressed out to suit the giant pin. The lower mounting hardware only stops side to side play.

Anyone got any idea how to address it?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

chopboy said:


> I have an Anthem 29er that I've put the Mcleod on and I've got this play in the lower eyelet. Been riding it with the play as I have no alternative at present. I've had the bushing pressed out to suit the giant pin. The lower mounting hardware only stops side to side play.
> 
> Anyone got any idea how to address it?


Tighten the lower pivot bolt. This squeezes the spacers against the shock eyelet and stops the play.

If it's loose you'll get a knock.


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

*fixed*



Dougal said:


> Tighten the lower pivot bolt. This squeezes the spacers against the shock eyelet and stops the play.
> 
> If it's loose you'll get a knock.


Thanks dougal, fixed. However, is this a long term solution? Is the friction between spacers enough to stop play while riding?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

chopboy said:


> Thanks dougal, fixed. However, is this a long term solution? Is the friction between spacers enough to stop play while riding?


Yes and that's how every bolt group in the world works. Bolts just provide the clamp force and the friction does the actual holding.


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

Dougal said:


> Yes and that's how every bolt group in the world works. Bolts just provide the clamp force and the friction does the actual holding.


excellent point.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Here is the new air can. Looks good.

https://stwww.bikemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Day-1-Gallery-3057.jpg


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

croakies said:


> Here is the new air can. Looks good.
> 
> https://stwww.bikemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Day-1-Gallery-3057.jpg


Does look nice. The ability to adjust the can makes it even more desirable.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

More details on the King Can here:

First Look: e*thirteen, BH and Manitou - Eurobike 2015 - Pinkbike

Will be $99US RRP aftermarket item.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm more curious what the whole shock will cost with the King can already on it and wenn it will become available.

Possibly would work quite well with the Trance rear suspension, but probably bit too early to tell.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

chopboy said:


> I have an Anthem 29er that I've put the Mcleod on and I've got this play in the lower eyelet. Been riding it with the play as I have no alternative at present. I've had the bushing pressed out to suit the giant pin. The lower mounting hardware only stops side to side play.
> 
> Anyone got any idea how to address it?


I'd be super interested in hearing about what you think of this shock on the Anthem. I've got an Anthem 29er that the Monarch RL that came on it is about done - it's leaked air from day one, and about gotten to the point where it's useless at the end of a ride in spite of rebuilds. What shock did you replace? How do the two compare? What's your weight and what PSI are you running?


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## Stratus (Mar 29, 2015)

They updated the site too, with parts and accessories (tools):

Parts and Accessories | Manitou


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

Cotharyus said:


> I'd be super interested in hearing about what you think of this shock on the Anthem. I've got an Anthem 29er that the Monarch RL that came on it is about done - it's leaked air from day one, and about gotten to the point where it's useless at the end of a ride in spite of rebuilds. What shock did you replace? How do the two compare? What's your weight and what PSI are you running?


Hey Cotharyus, 
I've not written a review of the shock to date as I'm still playing with the setup. (note Iv'e used LSC and platform damping interchangeably in the below as I assume there the same thing, someone please correct me if I'm mistaken)

I'm 77kg without gear and I'm currently running 145psi. I ride mostly XC / XC racing (it's an anthem) but do try and make the most of the dual sus on the descents.
I had the Monarch (RT3?) 2012 model, which failed, requiring the replacement. I was pretty happy with the monarch's performance up until it quit. Having said that, I don't have a breadth of experiance with which to compare the monarch.
I don't have a remote, and found the monarch was pretty happy in any of the three settings, open, trail and pedal all seemed 'fine'.
The Mcleod: Platform Open - The platform lever seems to work on the Mcleod! Open is (as far as I can discern) far more 'open' than the Monarch. In hindsight it's like the Monarch retained some LSC damping in all 3 modes. I can make the Maestro bob with the Mcleod in the open mode. Even seated there is some movement there. On the flip side, the Mcleod seems very active from early in the travel right through the mid range.
Platform Closed - with the LSC at max, I think the Monarch may have provided more platform than the Mcleod. This is a feel comment only, nothing concrete to back that statement up. The Monarch was really firm in the max platform setting where the Mcleod seems more active. Pedaling with max platform on the Mcleod is fine. I can make the suspension react if I stand and mash, but it's pretty well controlled. I can't remember if I could make the Monarch move or not. The Mcleod is definitely fine for my purposes. seated it's good. I think the difference, from what I can tell, is the suppleness with platform on. The shock retains good bump absorption everywhere.

Future thoughts: I'm yet to decide whether I'm happy to run the shock in a single setting, like I used to do with the Monarch. I actually think I'm sold on a remote kit for this shock, as the open mode lacks LSC for peddling, but I'm thinking is plusher in the rough than the platform setting. I want the best of both worlds with this unit, and I'm pretty sure it's capable of delivering.

In summary, I'm pretty happy with how the Mcleod works on the Maestro suspension system. I'd be interested to hear how people get on with the larger air-can, but would be dubious about it on our bikes. The mid range seems great with the standard can and it seems to ramp up really nicely towards the end of stroke. I've not had any moments where the shock's felt like it's bottoming out.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

chopboy said:


> Hey Cotharyus,
> I've not written a review of the shock to date as I'm still playing with the setup. (note Iv'e used LSC and platform damping interchangeably in the below as I assume there the same thing, someone please correct me if I'm mistaken)
> 
> I'm 77kg without gear and I'm currently running 145psi. I ride mostly XC / XC racing (it's an anthem) but do try and make the most of the dual sus on the descents.
> ...


Thanks for posting that up. It sounds like open is a little soft for pedaling and closed is a little stiff for doing everything. How do the other two settings feel for you? I for sure see the Anthem as more of an XC bike in spite of it winning trail bike of the year in some UK mag, which I thought was a joke, but it's my "all day" bike when I head to the mountains, so it gets a fair work out - something that opens it up a little on some of the descents wouldn't go unappreciated. But it still has to rip on my local flatter, punchy loops too. Keep me updated as you get a better feel for it. I don't HAVE to do anything with my shock for about two months, so I probably won't - I'll shop and research the whole time.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Okay, I didn't realise it was the top eyelet you were having issues with.
> 
> To be frank the tolerances on shock eyelets are all over the place. My McLeod is the first shock I have ever measured where both ends were within 0.01mm diameter. I've seen as much as 0.05mm difference between the ends of the same shock (not Manitou).
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what all this means so i will ask what you think will be best. I have a Scott Genius 900 and I have an older Fox mounting hardware on one side which has no play. The other side is a brand new Enduro needle bearing hardware that has a lot of play. I was thinking about buying the new Fox 5 piece hardware to replace the needle bearing.
What do you think would be the best hardware that would have the least possibility of play? Since this is on the side with the most amount of movement, I would prefer to use a bushing with less friction.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

yogiprophet said:


> I'm not sure what all this means so i will ask what you think will be best. I have a Scott Genius 900 and I have an older Fox mounting hardware on one side which has no play. The other side is a brand new Enduro needle bearing hardware that has a lot of play. I was thinking about buying the new Fox 5 piece hardware to replace the needle bearing.
> What do you think would be the best hardware that would have the least possibility of play? Since this is on the side with the most amount of movement, I would prefer to use a bushing with less friction.


The Enduro bearings are supposed to come with 3 slightly different sized inner sleeves to adjust for shock eye diameter variations. Did you try using the different sleeves? If you contact RWC they'd probably work with you to get rid of that slop.

Edit: I'm assuming this is up and down play when you lift up on the saddle, not side to side play, which would mean you probably just need to add shims to take up the side to side space.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

smilinsteve said:


> The Enduro bearings are supposed to come with 3 slightly different sized inner sleeves to adjust for shock eye diameter variations. Did you try using the different sleeves? If you contact RWC they'd probably work with you to get rid of that slop.
> 
> Edit: I'm assuming this is up and down play when you lift up on the saddle, not side to side play, which would mean you probably just need to add shims to take up the side to side space.


Yes you assumed correctly. Side to Side would most likely be just the wrong width hardware. I tried contacting Enduro but they stopped communicating when i told them it was for a Manitou shock. I will try gain, but I believe the cylinder that came with it was the largest they make for it because I have used the needles before and the cylinder that came with this one is the same diameter as the largest cylinder in the set of 3 that came with my previous Enduro needle bearing hardware.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

yogiprophet said:


> Yes you assumed correctly. Side to Side would most likely be just the wrong width hardware. I tried contacting Enduro but they stopped communicating when i told them it was for a Manitou shock. I will try gain, but I believe the cylinder that came with it was the largest they make for it because I have used the needles before and the cylinder that came with this one is the same diameter as the largest cylinder in the set of 3 that came with my previous Enduro needle bearing hardware.


They seriously do not support their application with Manitou shocks? 
Whatever the diameter of your current sleeve, put a mic to it and ask for a larger one?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Ok this baffles me can someone please explain and how do I know if my suspension is one that can use the King Can?

The King Can might be the right solution, but it might not be”. If your bike has a rising ratio (falling rate) you should be using King Can so that your wheel loads are linear and you can use full travel.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

bdundee said:


> Ok this baffles me can someone please explain and how do I know if my suspension is one that can use the King Can?
> 
> The King Can might be the right solution, but it might not be". If your bike has a rising ratio (falling rate) you should be using King Can so that your wheel loads are linear and you can use full travel.


Seems counter intuitive but maybe a suspension expert can chime in and explain. If the linkage leverage ratio is increasing, it seems it would more easily achieve full travel and one wouldn't need a larger can. But Manitou is saying that rising ratio suspension designs are the ones that need this larger can. Maybe it is in the actual design of the can itself that allows rising ratio suspensions to get full travel while keeping small bump compliance since rising ratios maybe tend to be harsher at the beginning of their stroke???
I really do like the idea of getting more mid stroke support which they claim the King Can does.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> I'm not sure what all this means so i will ask what you think will be best. I have a Scott Genius 900 and I have an older Fox mounting hardware on one side which has no play. The other side is a brand new Enduro needle bearing hardware that has a lot of play. I was thinking about buying the new Fox 5 piece hardware to replace the needle bearing.
> What do you think would be the best hardware that would have the least possibility of play? Since this is on the side with the most amount of movement, I would prefer to use a bushing with less friction.


As Steve said the Enduro needle rollers came with several different tolerance inner rings. Because the outer cage essentially conforms to the size of the eyelet. That's going to be the easiest and cheapest solution for you.

I'll bet whoever you were conversing with didn't realise that all Manitou shocks now are the same 19/32" eyelets as everything else.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Seems counter intuitive but maybe a suspension expert can chime in and explain. If the linkage leverage ratio is increasing, it seems it would more easily achieve full travel and one wouldn't need a larger can. But Manitou is saying that rising ratio suspension designs are the ones that need this larger can. Maybe it is in the actual design of the can itself that allows rising ratio suspensions to get full travel while keeping small bump compliance since rising ratios maybe tend to be harsher at the beginning of their stroke???
> I really do like the idea of getting more mid stroke support which they claim the King Can does.


Rising rate linkage means the shock gains leverage as the travel progresses. So it can be hard to get full travel with a progressive shock.

I've had my King Can on for a while now but due to a combination of many factors (including winter flu) I ain't got much riding time on it. I'm still essentially tuning it in.

But with the single can on my particular test bike I couldn't ever feel the end of the travel. With the King Can at max volume and the same pressure I can slam it through to feel the bumper.

Soo many tuning options now.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

bdundee said:


> Ok this baffles me can someone please explain and how do I know if my suspension is one that can use the King Can?
> 
> The King Can might be the right solution, but it might not be". If your bike has a rising ratio (falling rate) you should be using King Can so that your wheel loads are linear and you can use full travel.


If you think you are not using enough of your travel, suspension becomes too stiff too quickly, and you never bottom out, then you might need a king can.

I don't believe what Manitou is saying about better mid-stroke support. If you are blowing through the mid stroke. I don't think a king can would help.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

smilinsteve said:


> If you think you are not using enough of your travel, suspension becomes too stiff too quickly, and you never bottom out, then you might need a king can.
> 
> I don't believe what Manitou is saying about better mid-stroke support. If you are blowing through the mid stroke. I don't think a king can would help.


Assuming the King can has a larger negative spring chamber (like the Corset, Debonair and Evol) read the Vorsprung Corset webpage for how it changes the spring curve.


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## riiz (Jul 8, 2010)

yogiprophet said:


> Seems counter intuitive but maybe a suspension expert can chime in and explain. If the linkage leverage ratio is increasing, it seems it would more easily achieve full travel and one wouldn't need a larger can. But Manitou is saying that rising ratio suspension designs are the ones that need this larger can. Maybe it is in the actual design of the can itself that allows rising ratio suspensions to get full travel while keeping small bump compliance since rising ratios maybe tend to be harsher at the beginning of their stroke???
> I really do like the idea of getting more mid stroke support which they claim the King Can does.


You are right, its just that you have the terminology reversed, Rising-rate/suspension-ratio decreases or progressive, ie. Santa Cruz Bronson/5010 and Falling-rate/suspension ratio increases ie. Heckler. You'll want the King Can for the more Progressive suspension designs and the standard can for the latter or more linear suspension designs.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

smilinsteve said:


> I don't believe what Manitou is saying about better mid-stroke support. If you are blowing through the mid stroke. I don't think a king can would help.


It's true. The more linear you make a spring, the more mid-stroke support it has. I have seen the spring force plots for the King Can and they are amazingly linear.

The mid stroke support is one of many reasons I like coil springs so much. The Manitou Dorado and Mattoc are the first air forks I've ridden that have comparable mid stroke to coil springs and I'm hoping to get the same effect on the McLeod once tuned in.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Does anybody know what tools do I need to open and repair/tune the damper, and to fill the IFP? Maybe the depth of the piston would be useful as well.

Thanks


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Rising rate linkage means the shock gains leverage as the travel progresses. So it can be hard to get full travel with a progressive shock.
> 
> I've had my King Can on for a while now but due to a combination of many factors (including winter flu) I ain't got much riding time on it. I'm still essentially tuning it in.
> 
> ...


bdundee's quote from Manitou didn't say "rising rate", it says "rising ratio (AKA falling rate)".

All I need to know to understand this is are they talking about the shock's leverage or the suspension linkage. If they are talking about the shock's having a rising ratio then it makes sense to me that it would be harder for it to have full travel. 
From a physics standpoint, it doesn't make sense to talk about leverage ratios from a reaction's (output) point of view and it makes it confusing for people who know how to examine things like this. One always look at leverage ratios from an input pov which would be the suspension linkage's leverage ratio.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

yogiprophet said:


> bdundee's quote from Manitou didn't say "rising rate", it says "rising ratio (AKA falling rate)".


They are talking about the frame suspension curve.

KingCan's are designed to work better on Progressive (rising rate) linkages.
Think of it as the shock gets progressively harder to compress, as the compression ratio lowers during compression. Often these have been designed to support coil shocks. (e.g. starting ratio of 3:1, end of stroke ratio 2:1)

Standard aircans should work best with Regressive (falling rate) linkages.
Think of it as the shock gets easier to compress, as the ratio increases.
(e.g. start ratio 2:1, end stroke ratio 3:1)
These have often been designed with Air shocks in mind due to the natural progressive air spring curves of earlier (pre-Evol\debonair) shocks.

But TBH having a larger aircan is better, as it gives you more options.
It is way simpler to reduce air volume in a bigger shock, than try to magic it bigger on a smaller can.

You can also fall into the complex category of Intense bikes VPP curves, where they wiggle all over the place.
At which point you have to look into reducing the negative chamber volumes also to stop the bike wallowing past the ideal sag point of the linkage.

Scar
P.s. this is going slightly off topic though 
p.p.s I only wish they'd release a McLeod in 222x70!


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

So I am uneducated when it comes to what you guys aret discussing here.

What suspension design i.e. Horst Link etc.. works best with what option.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Take a look at the vorosprung corset website. He has a great breakdown of different types of leverage rates (notice I do not say suspension design as a two horst link bikes can be completely different) and which benefits most from linear shock rates 
https://vorsprung-suspension.myshop...2-how-well-will-the-corset-work-with-my-frame
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

https://vorsprung-suspension.myshop...2-how-well-will-the-corset-work-with-my-frame

Still trying to figure out where my Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt fits in. I do believe I can change the leverage rate some with the ride 9, I think?


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

After reading through that vorosprung article it looks like I could benefit from a larger air can volume.



bdundee said:


> https://vorsprung-suspension.myshop...2-how-well-will-the-corset-work-with-my-frame
> 
> Still trying to figure out where my Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt fits in. I do believe I can change the leverage rate some with the ride 9, I think?


Go to where it says "2. PROGRESSIVE leverage rate:" the graph they use there is for a Rock Mountain Thunderbolt. So I would assume it's progressive, lol.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Im #3 so ?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Wisconsinite762 said:


> After reading through that vorosprung article it looks like I could benefit from a larger air can volume.
> 
> Go to where it says "2. PROGRESSIVE leverage rate:" the graph they use there is for a Rock Mountain Thunderbolt. So I would assume it's progressive, lol.


That's funny thanks!! I knew it would be easier to ask than to read stuff I couldn't understand anyways  I did see where they listed the Altitude so I was actually kinda skimming/reading some


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Does anybody know what tools do I need to open and repair/tune the damper, and to fill the IFP? Maybe the depth of the piston would be useful as well.
> 
> Thanks


They can be rebuilt and revalved with the only special tools being the keychain IFP tool.

Obviously the more tools you have the easier the job will be. IFP depth varies by stroke. But it needs to be within about 2mm of the piston at full compression. IFP too low and you'll build too much pressure internally and not get full travel. IFP too high and it'll hit the piston before full travel.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> They can be rebuilt and revalved with the only special tools being the keychain IFP tool.
> 
> Obviously the more tools you have the easier the job will be. IFP depth varies by stroke. But it needs to be within about 2mm of the piston at full compression. IFP too low and you'll build too much pressure internally and not get full travel. IFP too high and it'll hit the piston before full travel.


Is that the 3-piece keychain tool that I seen somewhere for about $50?

EDIT: I have IFP tool for RS Monarch and very similar one for Marzocchi forks, would any of them fit? Another problem is IFP port cap, pentagon screw.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

TeamRWB said:


> Im #3 so ?


Yup the Thumper (Stumpy FSR) is Progressive to Linear/Digressive... If I am reading their description right and extrapolating onto the King Can then the extra volume would cancel out some of the feel of the shock (feel being soft, digressive end) allowing for a continued linear feel.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Adjustable spring volume is all about being able to tune the spring curve for the specific application, that being a combination of rider ability/style, rider weight, leverage curve, and damping curve. There is no magic recipe that says frame x requires a high/low volume can. Highly progressive linkages, yes there is a very good chance you'll want a hv can but short of that, you just gotta try it. The advantage of these latest crop of cans is that they can be high or low or anything in between.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

ktm520 said:


> Adjustable spring volume is all about being able to tune the spring curve for the specific application, that being a combination of rider ability/style, rider weight, leverage curve, and damping curve. There is no magic recipe that says frame x requires a high/low volume can. Highly progressive linkages, yes there is a very good chance you'll want a hv can but short of that, you just gotta try it. The advantage of these latest crop of cans is that they can be high or low or anything in between.


From Manitou's tech Shannan: "It does not come with any volume spacers. The king can has two settings. Full volume and half volume. Comes with all that is need to change the can down to half volume."


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The McLeod spring curve is a perfect match for my Regressive Prophet. Throw in the IPA and I am in single pivot heaven. I have learned a lot about suspension design considerations and how that relates to my bike. Thanks for the illumination! 

Did I mention that the McLeod works great on my Prophet?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Prophet Julio said:


> The McLeod spring curve is a perfect match for my Regressive Prophet. Throw in the IPA and I am in single pivot heaven. I have learned a lot about suspension design considerations and how that relates to my bike. Thanks for the illumination!
> 
> Did I mention that the McLeod works great on my Prophet?


That's great! I also still have a Prophet and that was the bike I rode when I joined MTBR hence my user name.

Now the Prophet is a great example of a rising ratio suspension which makes it great for getting full travel on an air shock, but it can sink pretty low on the climbs because of that.

My Genius has a little more complicated curve if the Linkage suspension curve I saw online is correct. It starts of rising - then flattens out - then continues to rise again which helps it get full travel. The flat section in the middle helps a little with not sagging to much during climbs.

Overall though, because of the lack of anti-squat, it needs more platform than the Prophet does.

What I like about the McLeod is that it seems to work well with a variety of suspension designs and it is great to have the option to get a working "lockout" that isn't fully locked out for any design out there. My old Turner Sultan has a ton of anti-squat so the Fox that came on it had very little compression damping, but if I wanted to reduce the motion for out of saddle efforts, even full propedal didn't change the platform a bit and it bobbed all over the place. With the McLeod, you can have it all.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I had my Prophet when I joined as well. I still ride it all the time. Ended up breaking my old frame, but I found a replacement that was practically new, so I am officially an old dog. I have to admit that the VPP suspension on the Santa Cruz bikes that I demoed were really nice. I have been looking for a replacement, but the McLeod has modernized my steed once again. The 650b conversion was the first reason to keep my Prophet, then the Lefty Air PBR conversion, then the McLeod.. Now I have a 160mm travel rear, 140mm front Enduro bike. The bb is a bit on the high side, but I am used to it and here in the rock strewn reaches of New England, that's not a bad thing.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> From Manitou's tech Shannan: "It does not come with any volume spacers. The king can has two settings. Full volume and half volume. Comes with all that is need to change the can down to half volume."


Well sometimes you have to get creative. I've yet to meet an air can that I couldn't adjust with simple materials.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Is that the 3-piece keychain tool that I seen somewhere for about $50?
> 
> EDIT: I have IFP tool for RS Monarch and very similar one for Marzocchi forks, would any of them fit? Another problem is IFP port cap, pentagon screw.
> View attachment 1014498


If the RS or Marzocchi tools worked then I wouldn't have said you needed the Manitou tool. 

The Manitou tool includes a 5 point socket to remove the cap and the fill adapter to repressurise it. Different threads to the RS item. I haven't tried the marzocchi tool but I can guarantee it won't have the 5 point socket.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

A couple questions for anyone in the USA who purchased a Mcleod from Chain Reaction Cycles:

Did you have to pay any Duty fees?

How long did it take to get your purchase?

Thank you.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

No duties, free shipping, about a week.


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

No duties, shipping was 2-3 days, paid like $6 for the faster shipping.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Renegade said:


> A couple questions for anyone in the USA who purchased a Mcleod from Chain Reaction Cycles:
> 
> Did you have to pay any Duty fees?
> 
> ...


Another purchasing option (US) would be from Outside Outfitters. They quoted me $268.00 for a 190x2 McLeod. Made quite a few purchases w/ o any issues. I have made plenty of CRC purchases but cringe @ the thought of ever having to return an item or deal w/ a warranty issue.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

Thank you all for the replies. I placed an order with Chain Reaction several hours ago. I was hesitant because of their location compared to mine. They seem to be a stand up company, and the product seems pretty sound, so I be confident that I won't have any issues with the shock.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Has anyone on here experienced their McLeod topping out upon full extension? I just installed a brand new shock and it has a harsh thump when the shock extends.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Has anyone on here experienced their McLeod topping out upon full extension? I just installed a brand new shock and it has a harsh thump when the shock extends.


How is the rebound knob working?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Dougal said:


> How is the rebound knob working?


Perfectly. If I slow it down enough there is no thump, but then the shock would pack up horribly.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Perfectly. If I slow it down enough there is no thump, but then the shock would pack up horribly.


That is odd. The rebound circuit acts as a hydraulic top out control. Normally top out shock means the rebound circuit isn't behaving.


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## gabgi (Dec 29, 2008)

Hi all.
Does anybody know where can I find any instruction how to change air sleeves in McLeod?
I've checked Manitou site but still no manual for McLeod.
I had no issue with McLeod yet,but I want to change air sleeve after 1000 km.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gabgi said:


> Hi all.
> Does anybody know where can I find any instruction how to change air sleeves in McLeod?
> I've checked Manitou site but still no manual for McLeod.
> I had no issue with McLeod yet,but I want to change air sleeve after 1000 km.


They just unscrew.


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## gabgi (Dec 29, 2008)

Dougal, I'm going to buy this set, and I was looking for manual simmilar to Fox instruction
http://service.foxracingshox.com/consumers/Content/Service/Rear_Shocks/605-00-071.pdf


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

gabgi said:


> Dougal, I'm going to buy this set, and I was looking for manual simmilar to Fox instruction
> http://service.foxracingshox.com/consumers/Content/Service/Rear_Shocks/605-00-071.pdf


That seal kit is for full rebuild, if you want to replace air sleeve seals only, just carefuly take the old seals out and put the new in, in reverse order.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

gabgi said:


> Dougal, I'm going to buy this set, and I was looking for manual simmilar to Fox instruction
> http://service.foxracingshox.com/consumers/Content/Service/Rear_Shocks/605-00-071.pdf


I am also interested in getting an instruction manual to replace all the seals.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Dougal said:


> That is odd. The rebound circuit acts as a hydraulic top out control. Normally top out shock means the rebound circuit isn't behaving.


Odd it is especially for a brand new shock.

I did let all the air out and compressed the shock lightly to examine the fit and make sure everything was good when I first installed it. But I don't think that would have done anything to mess it up.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Sounds to me like not enough air pressure in negative chamber. I understand that the pressure is set when rebuilding /sliding on the air can. I would try this to see if it helps. You may a slow leak. 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Still can't decide if I should get a McLeod+King Can or send my Debonair into Avalanche for a custom tune, leaning toward custom tune? Thoughts?

p.s. I've never had a custom tuned shock so not really sure what to expect.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

bdundee said:


> Still can't decide if I should get a McLeod+King Can or send my Debonair into Avalanche for a custom tune, leaning toward custom tune? Thoughts?


Well you are not comparing Apples to Apples with those two if you get the Debonair Avy'd or Push'd... Why do you think that you would need the King Can in the first place? I am 180lbs out of the shower and run the shock in its stock from on a Stumpy FSR clone frame and the shock does fantastically in its stock form.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

gregnash said:


> Well you are not comparing Apples to Apples with those two if you get the Debonair Avy'd or Push'd... Why do you think that you would need the King Can in the first place? I am 180lbs out of the shower and run the shock in its stock from on a Stumpy FSR clone frame and the shock does fantastically in its stock form.


Different leverage ratio frames call for different can sizes and mine calls for the king can. That and I'm not comparing anything to anything just trying to decide which way to go. Jeez why does everything have to be about apples


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

bdundee said:


> Different leverage ratio frames call for different can sizes and mine calls for the king can. That and I'm not comparing anything to anything just trying to decide which way to go. Jeez why does everything have to be about apples


Ok ok ok...... so cookies then! 
Reason I am asking is that while looking at it on paper you may think it doesn't fit your leverage ratios but in reality it might. Plus comparing a stock, or slightly different shock to something that has be specifically tuned to your weight, riding, terrain, bike, etc. is not a fair comparison in the slightest. With that, you are loading the deck in favor of the one vs. anything that may possibly be a good alternative.

I am assuming that you have the Debonair already on a standard RC3 (not the piggyback RT3)? Why not try the standard McLeod against it without pushing/avy'ing the Monarch and see how it does, if it is close to what your needs are then you can see what the additional cost of the King Can would do. The specially tuned shock will almost always beat out a standard shock no matter what when tuned by a very well known and quality company.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

The problem I am having is no matter how I tune my shock it just ramps up to fast and this is a common complaint about this frame. I really feel the need for a more linear feeling shock. I weight about 175 geared up and the frame is a Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt BC with a standard debonair. Im guessing if a custom tuned shock is better there is no reason not to go that route over winter. Thanks!!


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

bdundee said:


> The problem I am having is no matter how I tune my shock it just ramps up to fast and this is a common complaint about this frame. I really feel the need for a more linear feeling shock. I weight about 175 geared up and the frame is a Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt BC with a standard debonair. Im guessing if a custom tuned shock is better there is no reason not to go that route over winter. Thanks!!


have you checked inside the Debonair sleeve to confirm it doesn't have any spacers?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

fsrxc said:


> have you checked inside the Debonair sleeve to confirm it doesn't have any spacers?


Now that is a swell idea, why didn't I think of that. Thanks ripping apart tomorrow!!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

fsrxc said:


> have you checked inside the Debonair sleeve to confirm it doesn't have any spacers?


Completely forgot about that... Hopefully this is the "simple" answer to your problem bdundee.. Yes, a custom tuned shock will always win out from a standard off the shelf simply because it is tuned for your needs and bike whereas the OTS versions are meant to accept a wide range. If the Thunderbolt BC is really that linear of a suspension then yeah you are right you would probably be better off with the King Can.

To me, unless I was consistently racing then I would not really want to put my money into a custom tuned shock. What happens if you move to a new bike after a crash and the eye-to-eye is the same for both bikes but suspension setup is different. There goes $200-$300 down the drain for a custom tuned shock that will more than likely not work for you or anyone else. Or in the case where the shock wont fit you can simply sell it off on ebay/craigslist and recoup some money. Not so much with a custom tuned shock unless the person buying knows/has exactly what you did.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

bdundee said:


> The problem I am having is no matter how I tune my shock it just ramps up to fast and this is a common complaint about this frame. I really feel the need for a more linear feeling shock. I weight about 175 geared up and the frame is a Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt BC with a standard debonair. Im guessing if a custom tuned shock is better there is no reason not to go that route over winter. Thanks!!


Wow, I didn't realize that frame has such an ultra progressive leverage curve (2.7-1.8) for a trail bike. It would be worth a message to manitou to find out how the king comp ratio compares to the Debonair/evol/hv cans. It might not be big enough.

I firmly believe a custom tune is always better than anything off the shelf. RT3 is a great shock. Avy will be able tell you what it will take to get it to work with your frame.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bdundee said:


> The problem I am having is no matter how I tune my shock it just ramps up to fast and this is a common complaint about this frame. I really feel the need for a more linear feeling shock. I weight about 175 geared up and the frame is a Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt BC with a standard debonair. Im guessing if a custom tuned shock is better there is no reason not to go that route over winter. Thanks!!


Have you tried a coil shock on that frame?

I have the curves for the king-can somewhere and it's very very linear right across the range. I've had one fitted to one of my own bikes but have had so little riding time that it's not even broken in yet or properly tuned.

But I can say I went from not being able to get the last 3mm of travel to feeling the b/o bumper on the first g-out at the same pressure.

I'd love to fit a coil shock for comparison. But my test bike with the king-can doesn't have enough clearance for a coil shock.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

ktm520 said:


> Wow, I didn't realize that frame has such an ultra progressive leverage curve (2.7-1.8) for a trail bike. It would be worth a message to manitou to find out how the king comp ratio compares to the Debonair/evol/hv cans. It might not be big enough.
> 
> I firmly believe a custom tune is always better than anything off the shelf. RT3 is a great shock. Avy will be able tell you what it will take to get it to work with your frame.


When I see a curve like that, I start to feel that the manufacturer desperately does not want you to bottom out your shock!

With that said, what may actually work well is an old RP23 (before boost) that has Fox's old HV can. That was the can that went on the out side of the other can and what most people would actually shim because it was too linear. The shock also did not have much mid-stroke support but with that frame, that might not be a bad thing. And Push or avalanche can mod that shock to work even better. Could be cheap on e-bay.

If not that, I say go with a cheap Vanilla coil shock, get it modified by Push or Avalanche and be amazed.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Vespasianus said:


> With that said, what may actually work well is an old RP23 (before boost) that has Fox's old HV can.


bdundee,

The RS standard HV can (pre debonair) is very similar to the Fox standard HV (XV) can. Given equal sag, the RS HV can has less mid/end force than the debonair. It's a rather notable difference. You can still get the HV can for your RT3, if you decide to stay with it. I wouldn't even consider an old float. The RT3 is a better platform to work from, both performance and reliability.

Fox publishes compression ratio's for their can's. It would be nice if RS and Manitou followed suite. Two cans can have a linear curve, but their slopes can be different and in the case of a highly progressive leverage curve, the lower the slope, the better.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Have you tried a coil shock on that frame?
> 
> I have the curves for the king-can somewhere and it's very very linear right across the range. I've had one fitted to one of my own bikes but have had so little riding time that it's not even broken in yet or properly tuned.
> 
> ...


HAve you actually (or someone else here) testridden the mcleod against a CCDB Inline and or Fox float X and compare them. Can the mleod compete, where is he stronger and where weaker? The smaller adjustability is no concern for me (that´s why we can more easily tune the shock ourselves at home than sending the INLINE to the service partner ^^)


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Just noticed the coating wearing off this week.
800 miles on the shock.
I was using Finish Line stanchion lube when the seal started squeaking and recently have been using Slick Honey.
No leaks or anything yet.
Probably needs servicing anyway but where do I send it?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Barman1 said:


> Just noticed the coating wearing off this week.
> 800 miles on the shock.
> I was using Finish Line stanchion lube when the seal started squeaking and recently have been using Slick Honey.
> No leaks or anything yet.
> Probably needs servicing anyway but where do I send it?


That's not good! The shock bodies are all available and reasonably priced.

But lube on the outside of a shock doesn't do anything. The wiper seals just push it off and it can't get inside. Any squeaking or squealing you can hear is from inside and when it's making noise like that the air-can bushing is dry and needs lube.

To do this you simply drop the pressure from the can, unscrew it and grease the inside. Then reassemble. It's maintenance that can be done at home and the slick honey you have is perfectly good for that.

If the wear you can see is mainly on one side then you might have to check the alignment of your frame.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Dougal said:


> That's not good! The shock bodies are all available and reasonably priced.
> 
> But lube on the outside of a shock doesn't do anything. The wiper seals just push it off and it can't get inside. Any squeaking or squealing you can hear is from inside and when it's making noise like that the air-can bushing is dry and needs lube.
> 
> ...


In my experience, this wouldn't happen to a Fox....I think mainly because they use liquid lube rather than something like slick honey which is harder to apply and doesn't last as long. When I open up a Fox can, I just pour some of their lube in and it lasts for a long freakin' time. The Manitous and DT Swiss require you to take the whole thing apart and lube it up and then it doesn't last as long.
One would think they would include in their manual exactly how to take it apart and what to lube.

My McLeod started developing stiction in a very short amount of time. I was told it was part of the break-in process but don't you think that it would have been there from the start if it was truly part of the break-in process? And it never went away which makes me think I need to take it apart already.

Would you mind giving a little tutorial on how this is done so others would not wonder if they are doing it correctly?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> In my experience, this wouldn't happen to a Fox....I think mainly because they use liquid lube rather than something like slick honey which is harder to apply and doesn't last as long. When I open up a Fox can, I just pour some of their lube in and it lasts for a long freakin' time. The Manitous and DT Swiss require you to take the whole thing apart and lube it up and then it doesn't last as long.
> One would think they would include in their manual exactly how to take it apart and what to lube.
> 
> My McLeod started developing stiction in a very short amount of time. I was told it was part of the break-in process but don't you think that it would have been there from the start if it was truly part of the break-in process? And it never went away which makes me think I need to take it apart already.
> ...


You can use liquid lube in the McLeod as well if you want. Just don't use too much in the negative chamber.
I see some Manitou shocks that haven't had air can service in 10 years. So the grease system does work.

The fox aircan setup doesn't use a glide ring bushing, it instead uses the seals as both air seals and as wearing surfaces. So this is one reason why the fox air seals don't last as long.

Taking a McLeod apart for air can service is as simple as dropping the air pressure and unscrewing the can. Then wipe the seals and glide ring clean before slathering it all with grease and screwing it back together.

I'm really curious with Barmans shock above whether the wear is the same on both sides.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Barman1 said:


> Just noticed the coating wearing off this week.
> 800 miles on the shock.
> I was using Finish Line stanchion lube when the seal started squeaking and recently have been using Slick Honey.
> No leaks or anything yet.
> Probably needs servicing anyway but where do I send it?


Dude, that looks terrible - like an old Manitou 3! I would call Manitou and see what they can do. That should not happen.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Dougal said:


> You can use liquid lube in the McLeod as well if you want. Just don't use too much in the negative chamber.
> I see some Manitou shocks that haven't had air can service in 10 years. So the grease system does work.
> 
> The fox aircan setup doesn't use a glide ring bushing, it instead uses the seals as both air seals and as wearing surfaces. So this is one reason why the fox air seals don't last as long.
> ...


Thanks for the replies everyone. :thumbsup:

The wear is more or less uniform all the way around the stanchion and as for the squeaking seal, the lube on the stanchion works well but does require a light coat every other ride or so.
I just shot Hayes a message on the issue.
Biggest bummer is losing my Mcleod and riding on the Float again till I get the problem resolved. I'm feeling my personal small bump compliance will again be challenged.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

I received my Mcleod last week, and I have four rides on it. Prior to the first ride, I removed the air can to reset the negative air chamber, as the shock seemed to be topping out hard. Resetting it cured the hard top out.
Forward one week; I rode it today, and noticed something wasn't quite right. Sure enough, the shock is topping out hard again. I am losing my negative air, and it is happening when the bike is not being ridden.
Will removing the air can, and relubing all the seals and o-rings be of any help, or am I calling Manitou and sending them my shock?
Thanks for your advice.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

My shock is on it's way back to Manitou.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I have been in email correspondence with Manitou Tech dept. on trying to figure out if the McLeod would be a good match for the progressive suspension of my Thunderbolt. So far they have gone way above and beyond helping me address the problem and I believe they have a solution. Hard to get that kind of help from a company these days.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

I've been responding to a few messages today with the Hayes shock rep and I'm sending the shock back for evaluation/repair/replacement. Again...good people!
Did a full service on the pivot today as well while I was swapping shocks and found nothing amiss other than a crunchy bearing. Only 5 months old... I don't know, maybe I'm rough on things.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Barman1 said:


> Only 5 months old... I don't know, maybe I'm rough on things.


If it ain't breakn you ain't ridin it hard enough


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## Mikhail Malyshev (Oct 3, 2015)

Stratus said:


> For the remote fans out there:
> Manitou Mcleod modification kit for Remote


They are still expecting at least 2 weeks for this item to become available. I wonder if it is possible to buy Manitou McLeod modification kit for Remote (142-31535-K027)


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## __U3__ (Oct 4, 2015)

bdundee said:


> I have been in email correspondence with Manitou Tech dept. on trying to figure out if the McLeod would be a good match for the progressive suspension of my Thunderbolt. So far they have gone way above and beyond helping me address the problem and I believe they have a solution. Hard to get that kind of help from a company these days.


Please keep us updated, I'm also looking for some shock options for my Thunderbolt. New Fox DPS or McLeod, but I don't know which one to choose for the very progressive Thunderbolt linkage.

Someone in the mtb-news forum even used a 200mm shock with a 130mm fork to get more bb clearance for the RM. Very interesting and obviously working...


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

__U3__ said:


> Please keep us updated, I'm also looking for some shock options for my Thunderbolt. New Fox DPS or McLeod, but I don't know which one to choose for the very progressive Thunderbolt linkage.
> 
> Someone in the mtb-news forum even used a 200mm shock with a 130mm fork to get more bb clearance for the RM. Very interesting and obviously working...


Very progressive....take the Mcleod with king can then and you´re good to go


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> They just unscrew.


Do you know if Manitou will finally update their DH Air shock offerings?
I mean the Swinger Pro has no chance of matching a Double Barrel . BOS VOID or even Fox Float x2. Why do they not try and bring something new as they already have such an astonishing small enduro plattform? With that technology they should easily be able to make something for heavy hitters with all the adjustments and working parametres :-/


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

__U3__ said:


> Please keep us updated, I'm also looking for some shock options for my Thunderbolt. New Fox DPS or McLeod, but I don't know which one to choose for the very progressive Thunderbolt linkage.
> 
> Someone in the mtb-news forum even used a 200mm shock with a 130mm fork to get more bb clearance for the RM. Very interesting and obviously working...


After the tech ran some numbers he said the McLeod with a full volume can would work OK with the stock tune on a Thunderbolt. This weekend I dropped my ride 9 down to the lighter rider setting and so far I like it better, actually had to up the air pressure some. BTW I am about 175 geared up.


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## __U3__ (Oct 4, 2015)

bdundee said:


> After the tech ran some numbers he said the McLeod with a full volume can would work OK with the stock tune on a Thunderbolt. This weekend I dropped my ride 9 down to the lighter rider setting and so far I like it better, actually had to up the air pressure some. BTW I am about 175 geared up.


Honestly that doesn't sound like the tech is sure that the McLeod would be a perfect fit for the bike!
I'm on a 750 btw, so no Ride9 for me...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

__U3__ said:


> Honestly that doesn't sound like the tech is sure that the McLeod would be a perfect fit for the bike!
> I'm on a 750 btw, so no Ride9 for me...


No there was a bit more to it, he stated an OK fit stock but would be a little better with some tuning. I believe the McLeod with the King Can would blow the stock Fox out of the water, not sure about the Debonair tho.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

bdundee said:


> No there was a bit more to it, he stated an OK fit stock but would be a little better with some tuning. I believe the McLeod with the King Can would blow the stock Fox out of the water, not sure about the Debonair tho.


Mcleod is better than monarch plus debonair or fxo float x. some in this thread have already made the comparison and in a german thread it is the same with former owners of the mentiuoned shocks. The mcleod damping is simply superior and it has a good brakeaway. Do not worry about the small aircan. If it fits the progression of the frame one does not need any king can to compete with debonair shocks ;-)
you only need it, when the cinematics of your frame malkes it necessary


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

bansaiman said:


> you only need it, when the cinematics of your frame malkes it necessary


According to the tech my frame calls for the King Can and according to how my suspension behaves I believe it to be true as well. Now is it light years ahead of the Debonair, it darn well could be but I will be my own judge of that thank you


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Mcleod is better than monarch plus debonair or fxo float x. some in this thread have already made the comparison and in a german thread it is the same with former owners of the mentiuoned shocks. The mcleod damping is simply superior and it has a good brakeaway. Do not worry about the small aircan. If it fits the progression of the frame one does not need any king can to compete with debonair shocks ;-)
> you only need it, when the cinematics of your frame malkes it necessary


Goes to show you can't believe everything you read on the net.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

ktm520 said:


> Goes to show you can't believe everything you read on the net.


Especially when it is about a fox product...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Vespasianus said:


> Especially when it is about a fox product...


Right!! They are the greatest until real people actually get to ride them.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

bdundee said:


> Right!! They are the greatest until real people actually get to ride them.


I'm not anti Fox but my teeth are rattling out while my Mcleod is out for service.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Barman1 said:


> I'm not anti Fox but my teeth are rattling out while my Mcleod is out for service.


I'm not either, I had a 2016 f34 for a short stint and that was an incredible fork.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Looking at the Manitou website, it looks like the Radium and the Swinger shocks are nicer than the McCleod. the swinger looks pretty awesome, especially for the price. Any reason why you guys picked the McCleod, especially since they all seem to be available for under 300 bucks?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

smilinsteve said:


> Looking at the Manitou website, it looks like the Radium and the Swinger shocks are nicer than the McCleod. the swinger looks pretty awesome, especially for the price. Any reason why you guys picked the McCleod, especially since they all seem to be available for under 300 bucks?


The Radium is gone. You will see a few around on close-out, but they aren't available for order any longer. But it was a very nice shock, especially at that price point.

The Swinger is a bigger/heavier shock with a traditional type lockout. On/off, though a very reliable source tells me this can be modified to become Platform/Open. The McLeod has 4 stages of compression adjust which suits most people very very well.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

I still have the Radium that came on my Prophet. I loved that shock.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Dougal said:


> The Radium is gone. You will see a few around on close-out, but they aren't available for order any longer. But it was a very nice shock, especially at that price point.
> 
> The Swinger is a bigger/heavier shock with a traditional type lockout. On/off, though a very reliable source tells me this can be modified to become Platform/Open. The McLeod has 4 stages of compression adjust which suits most people very very well.


The way I read it, it looks like the Swinger has low and high speed compression adjustment, and lockout. So wouldn't that mean you can also adjust platform with LSC adjustment?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

smilinsteve said:


> The way I read it, it looks like the Swinger has low and high speed compression adjustment, and lockout. So wouldn't that mean you can also adjust platform with LSC adjustment?


Yes the swinger has LSC and HSC adjustments. But they don't feel that platformish. I built myself a custom 6 way swinger like 4 months ago, got it fitted last month, haven't had time to fix the flat tyre.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I replaced my Radium on my Prophet with a Swinger 3way air. Huge improvement with the Stable Platform Adjustment. It was or is my understanding that this was more of a threshold valve which prevented shock movement up to a certain level. There were 4 positions.

The McCleod has Incremental Platform Adjustment which is different in that it is not a threshold but rather a Low Speed Compression adjustment. This will allow movement of the shock at all times, so a different feel than the Swinger, or at least my Swinger 3Way Air with SPA. Maybe the newer stuff is different. I find the McLeod to be far superior to the Swinger, allowing for a better small bump compliance and the associated increase in contact with the ground for better traction and control.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Ordered mine yesterday for my Switchback Unveil 9.


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## m4k1 (Oct 25, 2015)

hello would the mcleod be a good match for a banshee rune 2016? thanks


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I tried to order one right from Manitou through my LBS for my Thunderbolt but the stars just wouldn't align so no go. Oh well it's fat bike time


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Dang that sux. I get mine today. What size?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

TeamRWB said:


> Dang that sux. I get mine today. What size?


190x50 They where going to do a tune on it for my Thunderbolt with a King Can but we just couldn't get the deal to materialize. if I was Manitou I wouldn't have messed with it. No biggie I might just send my Debonair to Avalanche.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Ahh ok. If it wasnt a special tune with can I would say my LBS might be able to help.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

bdundee said:


> 190x50 They where going to do a tune on it for my Thunderbolt with a King Can but we just couldn't get the deal to materialize. if I was Manitou I wouldn't have messed with it. No biggie I might just send my Debonair to Avalanche.


how long are the descents you usually do?
the mcleod is really supple and you only need the piggy if the descent is over 15 minutes without breaks. so well beneath it you will get along with the mcleod greatly. and save much money for the better performance over the stock monarch plus.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

bansaiman said:


> how long are the descents you usually do?
> the mcleod is really supple and you only need the piggy if the descent is over 15 minutes without breaks. so well beneath it you will get along with the mcleod greatly. and save much money for the better performance over the stock monarch plus.


I don't have a Debonair plus and even the Manitou tech admitted that my Debonair is no slouch and with the special tune RS put on it specially for the Thunderbolt I might not be gaining much with a stock McLeod. A tune from Avalanche will cost me around $200 for the debonair I already have where a new McLeod with King Can would be close to $400.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

bdundee said:


> I don't have a Debonair plus and even the Manitou tech admitted that my Debonair is no slouch and with the special tune RS put on it specially for the Thunderbolt I might not be gaining much with a stock McLeod. A tune from Avalanche will cost me around $200 for the debonair I already have where a new McLeod with King Can would be close to $400.


I would be shocked if the McLeod was better than the Debonair. That is a very nice shock.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

What does McLeod use for lubrication in air canister? I'm about to open mine as I've been riding in mud last weeks, to give it some love.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

RoboS said:


> What does McLeod use for lubrication in air canister?





RoboS said:


> give it some love.


Wouldn't recommend that as lube lol.
(couldn't help myself!)


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

scar4me said:


> Wouldn't recommend that as lube lol.
> (couldn't help myself!)


Now I can edit my question to spoil your answer


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Give it as much love as you like, just make sure it gets the right lube.

Prep-M, Slick Honey or Slickoleum are known good options.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Give it as much love as you like, just make sure it gets the right lube.
> 
> Prep-M, Slick Honey or Slickoleum are known good options.


Dougal, no oil?
I expected Prep-M, but like other shocks few cc oil as well.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

My Mcleod story. I purchased a new 7.5 by 2 inch [190 by 50] Mcleod from Chain reaction cycles. I sent it back to Manitou twice; first time to repair what I believed was a leaking negative air chamber issue, and second time because the shock was topping out hard at full extension. No amount of rebound adjustment would prevent the hard top out. The top out was occurring in the damping chamber, not the air chamber. I took measurements that proved to me that the air piston was .25 inches away from ever coming into contact with the bottom of the air can.
The Manitou technician was very helpful, but I felt that he either wasn't listening very well to what I was trying to explain to him, or I am simply not a good communicator. I was starting to get frustrated. He stumbled onto the source of my problem somewhat accidentally. He was getting a little desperate for solutions, so he thought he would try out a King Can on the shock to see if it made a difference. He grabbed a King can for a 7.5 by 2 shock, set that can on it's end right next to my stock can, and he noticed a difference.

The two cans were two different lengths.

My can, that came on a brand new shock I purchased, was the correct can for a 7.875 by 2.25 [ 200 by 56] shock.
I was topping out because the negative air spring was not being compressed enough to stop the can at full extension. Now that I have the right can, the harsh top out problem is gone. So an assembly technician may have grabbed the wrong can from the correct parts bin, or they reached into the wrong parts bin, whatever. Is my shock the only one that was incorrectly assembled? MTBR member Yogiprophet, if you still have the harsh top out, you might have the same problem.
Manitou was overall great to work with. Both times, they returned my shock to me via Over-night service, at their expense. I am happy with the outcome, other than losing a couple weeks of riding that shock.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Glad they figured it out for you! What kind of bike was this for?


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

max_lombardy said:


> Glad they figured it out for you! What kind of bike was this for?


The bike is a KHS XCT 536, which is a 140mm travel, Horst-link four bar suspension.
I have had several shocks on this frame; an Avalanched modified Fox Float CTD [liked this one the least], a Push MX-tuned Fox DHX coil, and a CCDB-A CS. I like the Cane Creek a lot, but the Mcleod is really pretty dam good for an in-line shock.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Dougal, no oil?
> I expected Prep-M, but like other shocks few cc oil as well.


Nothing to stop you using oil, other than migration over time into the negative chamber.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Nothing to stop you using oil, other than migration over time into the negative chamber.


Oh please don't mention oil migration, I get angry when I hear that word. My Mattoc is in service 2nd time for oil and air migration, it started to lose travel during ride, many times down to 13cm. And it jumped back to 16cm at the moment I connected shock pump.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Anybody know if the McLeod will become available with the King Can already installed or will it remain an aftermarket option?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

RoboS said:


> Oh please don't mention oil migration, I get angry when I hear that word. My Mattoc is in service 2nd time for oil and air migration, it started to lose travel during ride, many times down to 13cm. And it jumped back to 16cm at the moment I connected shock pump.


What are you using on the air piston? I have had great luck with adding tons of Prep-M grease on and around the air piston, filling the cup with even more and using 2 mLs of Mobil 1 on top.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Vespasianus said:


> What are you using on the air piston? I have had great luck with adding tons of Prep-M grease on and around the air piston, filling the cup with even more and using 2 mLs of Mobil 1 on top.


I tried Prep-M without oil and then I tried it with 2ml of Supergliss (which migrated to negative chamber). In both cases I had problems with travel loss. Issue was more evident when used Prep-M only. My fork was sent to Manitou Germany for service/warranty/whatever.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

RoboS said:


> I tried Prep-M without oil and then I tried it with 2ml of Supergliss (which migrated to negative chamber). In both cases I had problems with travel loss. Issue was more evident when used Prep-M only. My fork was sent to Manitou Germany for service/warranty/whatever.


So, what causes the air migration? Is it simply air going past the piston or is it from the actual rod that is used to pump air into the two chambers? Also, how much grease are people using? I actually use a ton, like 10 mL on top and all around the piston.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Vespasianus said:


> So, what causes the air migration? Is it simply air going past the piston or is it from the actual rod that is used to pump air into the two chambers? Also, how much grease are people using? I actually use a ton, like 10 mL on top and all around the piston.


Not sure, its main piston seal, or o-rings on the plunger that can cause migration between positive and negative chamber. I don't know why local manitou rep. did not try to change these seals, they sent it to germany instead. I could have my fork fixed within few days.
The amount of prep-m I use is about 5ml


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

RoboS said:


> Not sure, its main piston seal, or o-rings on the plunger that can cause migration between positive and negative chamber. I don't know why local manitou rep. did not try to change these seals, they sent it to germany instead. I could have my fork fixed within few days.
> The amount of prep-m I use is about 5ml


Thanks. I wonder if they will come out with a new piston design. I think someone mentioned making a system where you filled air from the top and pressed a button on the bottom to set the negative pressure. I like that idea and it would seem more "normal" to most people.

All of these self-regulating "solo" air systems seem to have problems. My Reba sucks down every now and then as well.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Vespasianus said:


> Thanks. I wonder if they will come out with a new piston design. I think someone mentioned making a system where you filled air from the top and pressed a button on the bottom to set the negative pressure. I like that idea and it would seem more "normal" to most people.
> 
> All of these self-regulating "solo" air systems seem to have problems. My Reba sucks down every now and then as well.


While trying to figure out what is wrong I ran across Dorado service manual where the main seal is pictured as simple o-ring. Maybe o-rings can seal better, but have more drag, I don't know. I haven't heard about this issue in Dorado. I would sacrifice a bit more drag for reliability, if its the only problem of o-rings.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

RoboS said:


> While trying to figure out what is wrong I ran across Dorado service manual where the main seal is pictured as simple o-ring. Maybe o-rings can seal better, but have more drag, I don't know. I haven't heard about this issue in Dorado. I would sacrifice a bit more drag for reliability, if its the only problem of o-rings.


The main air piston seal on the mattoc isn't an O-ring, it's an X-ring (also known as a quad ring). It's got an X shaped cross section, so has 2 sealing surfaces making it much better for high pressure air sealing than a standard Oring.
I'd be very shocked if it was just an Oring on the dorado tbh.

Scar


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

scar4me said:


> The main air piston seal on the mattoc isn't an O-ring, it's an X-ring (also known as a quad ring). It's got an X shaped cross section, so has 2 sealing surfaces making it much better for high pressure air sealing than a standard Oring.
> I'd be very shocked if it was just an Oring on the dorado tbh.
> 
> Scar


Yes, I know its some kind of X-ring, just like RS and fox use in rear shocks.
Check dorado service guide http://www.manitoumtb.com/assets/Service Manuals/2012 Dorado Pro Service Manual.pdf
Page 17 (18th in pdf) Fig. 13


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Well just fitted one to my eaze dude.
Having to try 216x63 rather than 222x70 that its specc'd for.
Slackens half a deg, 5mm bb drop, seattube angle -.5 deg , travel down to 160mm.
Hoping the the IPA will compensate and mean it rides higher than my Bos void did.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Having my installed today on my Switchback Unveil 9! Also got the new FIT4 dampner for my FOX 34.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

scar4me said:


> Well just fitted one to my eaze dude.
> Having to try 216x63 rather than 222x70 that its specc'd for.
> Slackens half a deg, 5mm bb drop, seattube angle -.5 deg , travel down to 160mm.
> Hoping the the IPA will compensate and mean it rides higher than my Bos void did.


Interesting, then let us know How you like it in which aspects ;-) sind wagt which One does netter


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> No duties, free shipping, about a week.


FYI; I just received a bill from DHL Express for duty fees for my shock purchase. Fee is ten percent of the purchase price of the item, plus another 4 percent that DHL charges for "handling" the import of the purchase.
This is the last purchase I will ever make from Chain reaction cycles.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Dang that sux

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Renegade said:


> FYI; I just received a bill from DHL Express for duty fees for my shock purchase. Fee is ten percent of the purchase price of the item, plus another 4 percent that DHL charges for "handling" the import of the purchase.
> This is the last purchase I will ever make from Chain reaction cycles.


Are you kidding me? Don't pay it! I am pretty sure the duty fee is for Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I read that on a German bike shop's website called Bike-Discount. I paid $222 for a McLeod from them plus shipping. Neither they nor CRC ever charged me duty. That is on DHL and is surely a mistake.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Are you kidding me? Don't pay it! I am pretty sure the duty fee is for Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I read that on a German bike shop's website called Bike-Discount. I paid $222 for a McLeod from them plus shipping. Neither they nor CRC ever charged me duty. That is on DHL and is surely a mistake.


we Canadians get charged exorbitant brokerage fees all the time (from the US or Europe or ), which is why we often pick and choose our mailorder places based on which ones ship by postal.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

bansaiman said:


> Interesting, then let us know How you like it in which aspects ;-) sind wagt which One does netter


Ok, well test ride all done.

Background: 
Bike is 160mm travel, highly digressive (2:1 start, 3:1 end).
I'm 200lb, ride aggressively, a power through rather than sit and spin rider.
Previous setup BOS Deville 170, and BOS Void.
McLeod is 216mm i2i so 7mm shorter, but actual riding geometry felt identical.

Comparison:
+Very supportive damping doesn't blow through travel even in high speed rough.
+Aircan size matches frame kinematics well.
+Great pedaling, with less wallow. 
(Void sits slightly lower in it's travel, and wallowed during pedaling.)

-Shock doesn't give as good traction on slower speed rough (wet roots etc)
(feels like I'd like 1 lower setting on the IPA adjuster)
-Shock gives so much traction that I was pushing the grip limits climbing.
(Void always felt like it took some of the power out, BUT it did feel smoother and climbing traction was just there without any tyre slipping.)

After thoughts.....
McLeod is probably on to stay for general riding.
It does give the frame less of a "just ride over anything without a care" feel, but this is much less than the increase in riding performance on level or uphill.
This was a similar but less pronounced difference with the Mattoc, damping felt ever so slightly less controlled. BUT this is minimal, and nothing I would really say that affected the ride. (grip or control)

So... in a nut shell:
BOS Setup = Traction galore, pedaled ok but lacking direct power transfer.
Manitou Setup = Pedaled awesome with instant power transfer, less grip when things got hairy at lower speeds. Very good performance when things got fast and rough.

Scar
P.s. I know I could tweak the void's low speed to make it more pedal friendly, but that would compromise the ride performance.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

I wonder why they don't make a 7.25 x 1.5 (184x44)? I'd like to try one...


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Ill be taking mine out this weekend for the first ride. I also have the new dampner in my fork to test too.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

keen said:


> I wonder why they don't make a 7.25 x 1.5 (184x44)? I'd like to try one...


7.25x1.75?

That length can be acheived by spacing down a 7.5x2.0. But there may be some extra work required to get the negative spring working to ensure a smooth return to full extension.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Dougal said:


> 7.25x1.75?
> 
> That length can be acheived by spacing down a 7.5x2.0. But there may be some extra work required to get the negative spring working to ensure a smooth return to full extension.


 Seems like a common size these days so I am not sure why it wouldn't be part of their line up.


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## Stratus (Mar 29, 2015)

__
http://instagr.am/p/-VGwWKTRhc/

:thumbsup:


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Stratus said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/-VGwWKTRhc/
> 
> :thumbsup:


Wow! Who is that Dougal person they mention?



Also, check of Nick Pye's bike:


__
http://instagr.am/p/-RtYG7TRmO/


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

keen said:


> Seems like a common size these days so I am not sure why it wouldn't be part of their line up.


I was considering one for my Ripley LS. Apparently you might be able to call them direct to have them build one. Pastajet from this forum has one on his Ripley in 188x44.


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## Hermes475 (Mar 1, 2007)

After reading this thread I decided to remove the air can from my Mcleod and inspect the air can internals/regrease with slick honey. I had always wondered how the negative spring worked ( I could not figure out how it became pressurized) and now I know. I found out that when attempting to reinstall the air can, a good amount of force is required to compress the negative air chamber and actually get the air can to make contact with the threads to screw it back on. I had to put the shock back in the vice and press down with all my weight. The negative spring was powerful enough to make the shock suck down about 3/4" or so when no pressure was in the positive chamber, which means it was enough to overcome the ifp pressure. 

The shock is currently being used on a Canfield Balance. The Balance came with a cane creek double barrel air cs and I prefer the bike with the Mcleod. Somehow the ccdbacs just does not feel as good. I think I need to tinker more with the adjustment of the ccdbacs and possibly with some air can spacers since I have basically been using the settings that Cane Creek recommends with that frame. With the same amount of sag in both shocks, I get way more pedal strikes with the ccdbcs when compared to the Mcleod. Granted the compression and rebound settings are not the same for each shock and I likely could adjust the ccdbcs so that I stop getting pedal strikes but I think that would cause the shock to ride worse in other ways. Anyways, I am rather impressed with the Mcleod, quite a strong performer for the money.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Think I've found the cause of my sensitivity issues at low speeds... Negative chamber needed resetting.
Hadn't touched the aircan whenI bought it, and after undoing it, it barely care away from the threads. Also found very dry aircan seals so lubed them up too.
Deffinately recommend other users do this too. Think this is made much more apparent due to winter temperatures also lowering the pressure. Just something to note if changing riding altitudes or temperatures often

Now its noticeably smoother off the top, and much better sensitivity.
So much so I've had to increase the shock pressure 10%!
Time to ride and see if that narrows the hap between the manitou m Bos setups.

So if anyone wants a more platform feeling to the shock, just get a hair drier n heat it up nice n warm when resetting the negative chamber to decrease the negative pressure.
To do the opposite n put the shock in the freezer to get a increase in negative pressure n make it lighter of the top of stroke.


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

Hermes475 said:


> The Balance came with a cane creek double barrel air cs and I prefer the bike with the Mcleod. Somehow the ccdbacs just does not feel as good. I think I need to tinker more with the adjustment of the ccdbacs and possibly with some air can spacers since I have basically been using the settings that Cane Creek recommends with that frame. With the same amount of sag in both shocks, I get way more pedal strikes with the ccdbcs when compared to the Mcleod. Granted the compression and rebound settings are not the same for each shock and I likely could adjust the ccdbcs so that I stop getting pedal strikes but I think that would cause the shock to ride worse in other ways.


The Cane Creek shock has a bit of a weird spring curve and it really likes to use its available travel in the factory recommended setting. I have the same same shock on my Norco Range and with the settings recommended by Cane Creek it would go through about 95% of its travel whether I rode it off a 4" curb or a 4' drop to flat. I ended up running less sag and more volume spacers to make it stop using so much travel, and was still able to get the suppleness I wanted with some tweaks on the damper settings.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Dougal said:


> Yep. That's the piston hitting the IFP inside. It just requires more damper oil and a lower IFP setting which is an easy fix.


Bugger, my Mcleod now looks like it's suffering from the same issue, will only compress to about 50-51mm (on a 56mm stroke) with a definite metal to metal clang at the limit of travel.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Kiwiplague said:


> Bugger, my Mcleod now looks like it's suffering from the same issue, will only compress to about 50-51mm (on a 56mm stroke) with a definite metal to metal clang at the limit of travel.


I didn't check for the sound since I didn't slam it RoboS, but my 56mm stroke also only gets about 51mm. Also, I just took a look at the shock and it somehow shrunk eye to eye from 200mm to about 196mm.....very strange behavior.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

yogiprophet said:


> I didn't check for the sound since I didn't slam it RoboS, but my 56mm stroke also only gets about 51mm. Also, I just took a look at the shock and it somehow shrunk eye to eye from 200mm to about 196mm.....very strange behavior.


From what I read a few pages back (page 14/15), there is quite a large bottom out bumper in the Mcleod, but if it is the IFP issue, then it is very likely the IFP issue. I found out by deflating the shock and compressing the rear end by hand quite hard. There was the definite metal on metal clank, not what you'd expect from the bottom out bumper.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Ride report after redoing the aircan....
Night n day difference!
Now the shock is much more supple in early stroke, and no longer has the platform feel. IPA position 1 is super plush, and the bike still has a decent direct power transfer. The kicker is that means it no longer breaks traction, and bites in when fighting with rough and technical climbs, similar but not as wallowy as the Bos.

100% the best shock I've had on the bike now 
And I've had loads.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

scar4me said:


> Ride report after redoing the aircan....
> Night n day difference!
> Now the shock is much more supple in early stroke, and no longer has the platform feel. IPA position 1 is super plush, and the bike still has a decent direct power transfer. The kicker is that means it no longer breaks traction, and bites in when fighting with rough and technical climbs, similar but not as wallowy as the Bos.
> 
> ...


Nice, thanks for the review. This has me really interested.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

The bottom out bumper is only 3mm with part of the bumper sitting in a recessed area. I'm on my third McLeod because of ifp issues and have been dealing with Manitou for a while on the issue. They built me the 3rd shock with a new ifp that has a new seal the solves the problem. Have about 80 miles on it and it's been great so far. They will take care of the issue for anyone who is finding travel loss issues


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> The bottom out bumper is only 3mm with part of the bumper sitting in a recessed area. I'm on my third McLeod because of ifp issues and have been dealing with Manitou for a while on the issue. They built me the 3rd shock with a new ifp that has a new seal the solves the problem. Have about 80 miles on it and it's been great so far. They will take care of the issue for anyone who is finding travel loss issues


Hmm, so if I was to buy an "on sale" Mcleod from overseas it may be a pain to get it warranteed...


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

I got mine through Chain Reaction (deal on it was too good to pass up), so looks like I'll have to go through their warranty process. Not sure if an email to Manitou would help, given that I'm in New Zealand, but it could be worth a try.

At least I have my old Fox as a back up shock, but I'm not looking forward to removing the shock from my bike, as it's an absolute nightmare to get it put back together again!


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

fsrxc said:


> Hmm, so if I was to buy an "on sale" Mcleod from overseas it may be a pain to get it warranteed...


Shouldn't matter where you got it from as long as the serial number is good. People outside the USA may have issues of a lack of places to send them too, but if you're in the USA you should be fine. They know about the issue so claims should be pretty easy


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

fsrxc said:


> Hmm, so if I was to buy an "on sale" Mcleod from overseas it may be a pain to get it warranteed...


I bought mine from Chain Reaction, and when I needed to get my shock worked on, I sent it directly to Manitou. It seemed stupid to send it from Colorado, to the U.K., to Wisconson, back to the U.K, back to Colorado, TWICE. Manitou had absolutley no problems doing bussiness this way.
Btw, if you purchase your shock from Chain Reaction, you may have to pay a Duty fee. I had to, about $30 U.S. Dollars.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Here is my bike that my review is based on:








For some background this is my tested shocks in list of preference:
Mcleod (buttery smooth, supportive, very active, ipa very effective without making the ride harsh.)
BOS Void (buttery smooth, well supportive, but highly active which bogged down under power)
Vivid Air R2 (buttery smooth, slight initial stiction, tune slightly too plush) 
CCDB Air (smooth and supportive, just never felt lively)
Marzocchi Roco WC Air (decent support, slightly "sticky")
Fox DHX5 Air Kashima (smooth, but wallowy with no midstroke support)
Xfusion Vector HLR Air (early stroke rebound issues due to adjuster orifice closing off too early)

Scar


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kiwiplague said:


> I got mine through Chain Reaction (deal on it was too good to pass up), so looks like I'll have to go through their warranty process. Not sure if an email to Manitou would help, given that I'm in New Zealand, but it could be worth a try.


I know you didn't even ask for a NZ price............


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Renegade said:


> I bought mine from Chain Reaction, and when I needed to get my shock worked on, I sent it directly to Manitou. It seemed stupid to send it from Colorado, to the U.K., to Wisconson, back to the U.K, back to Colorado, TWICE. Manitou had absolutley no problems doing bussiness this way.
> Btw, if you purchase your shock from Chain Reaction, you may have to pay a Duty fee. I had to, about $30 U.S. Dollars.


I would say that if you want to buy a manitou product, you can get very similar prices to the european prices from people on these boards. No need to go to Europe to get the best deal.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Dougal said:


> I know you didn't even ask for a NZ price............


Mainly because at the time I wasn't aware that there was a distributer in NZ, as when I previously wanted to get a Mattoc (at the middle of last year) my lbs told me me the previous distributer had gone. If I'd known at the time that you were doing manitou, I probably would have stayed in country.
In hindsight, I should have done some more digging, but didn't, so I'm in the situation I'm in. If worst comes to worst, at leat I can send the shock back to CRC and I still have my old RP2 I can use in the meantime.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kiwiplague said:


> Mainly because at the time I wasn't aware that there was a distributer in NZ, as when I previously wanted to get a Mattoc (at the middle of last year) my lbs told me me the previous distributer had gone. If I'd known at the time that you were doing manitou, I probably would have stayed in country.
> In hindsight, I should have done some more digging, but didn't, so I'm in the situation I'm in. If worst comes to worst, at leat I can send the shock back to CRC and I still have my old RP2 I can use in the meantime.


We only opened up our service centre middle of last year, so that was fair enough. We had a lot of preparation and tooling up to do before advertising.

The situation currently is we support everything from the mid 90's through to current.

What we don't have is enough bike shops that know what they're on about. We deal with an excess of 300 shops. Some are very good, but many can't even type Manitou NZ into google or read the emails we send them.

As a result we've got a lot of forks and shocks in NZ purchased mail-order. Yes Shockcraft provides full warranty support on these, but it's more than a little frustrating providing support without the sale.

For the record. Your local bike shop, supplied by me, can compete with CRC if they want to. But first they need to pickup the phone, log into their dealer portal or send an email.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Cheers Dougal. Am I better off sending the shock back to CRC and getting a replacement from them, or would you suggest sending it to you yo look at? If it costs me for you to fix it, I'm happy to go that route, as at least then I know that the shock will be fixed!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kiwiplague said:


> Cheers Dougal. Am I better off sending the shock back to CRC and getting a replacement from them, or would you suggest sending it to you yo look at? If it costs me for you to fix it, I'm happy to go that route, as at least then I know that the shock will be fixed!


It'll end up coming to me anyway, so may as well cut out all the middle-men.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Sounds great. Can you advise what I need to do via pm? Not sure the rest of this thread needs filling up with that info!
Again, thanks for your help, much appreciated.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

Vespasianus said:


> I would say that if you want to buy a manitou product, you can get very similar prices to the european prices from people on these boards. No need to go to Europe to get the best deal.


Mcleod shock for ~$220 in the USA? (actually I'm in Canada) if so let me know.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Found some good deals around on the McLeod, with the IFP clunk people are experiencing is it something that could be fixed easily with the right parts without sending in for warranty? We don't have an official service centre in Australia so would mean sending it overseas for repairs.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

shiny said:


> Found some good deals around on the McLeod, with the IFP clunk people are experiencing is it something that could be fixed easily with the right parts without sending in for warranty? We don't have an official service centre in Australia so would mean sending it overseas for repairs.


Stupid question but how close is New Zealand? Dougal is the manitou guy there and I guess he could help.

I am hoping for the best, I am getting this really to just check it out and act as a back up when I send my other shock to get serviced.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

shiny said:


> Found some good deals around on the McLeod, with the IFP clunk people are experiencing is it something that could be fixed easily with the right parts without sending in for warranty?


Please tell us how to fix it. I would much rather do it myself.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Vespasianus said:


> Stupid question but how close is New Zealand? Dougal is the manitou guy there and I guess he could help.
> 
> I am hoping for the best, I am getting this really to just check it out and act as a back up when I send my other shock to get serviced.


NZ is close, user on local forum recently had his Mattoc repaired under warranty by Dougal but was a month turn around time due to shipping times/customs hold ups & then getting it repaired and sent back.



yogiprophet said:


> Please tell us how to fix it. I would much rather do it myself.


Would like to know too! Might flick an email to Manitou and see what they say.

I would be selling my current shock to put funds towards paying for the McLeod.

I have a RP23 BV which quietly goes about its job and has not caused any problems and would hate to change and then be left in limbo if the McLeod has an issue.


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

Thinking of going either Mcleod or DB Inline on my new Intense Spider 275. Im 235lbs.....would the Mcleod be a good fit? Mostly ride smooth with chunky sections but i am a DH rider at heart so like to plow. I rode the rt3 on that frame and it was ok but not super impressive.


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## thatdeanguy (Aug 1, 2014)

152mmx32mm Mcleod on my 2012 Rocky Mountain Element 950. I have about 15hrs logged on it now and think I have it set up reasonably well. It took about 10hrs riding to free up, before this any IPA settings above 1 made the ride a bit harsh. I mostly use settings 1 and 2 but do use IPA 4 if I want to really get up a hill quickly (Not often). I see they spec this shock on the RM Sherpa but it's custom valved to run lower pressures (air volume reducers?) to allow for the extra weigh associated with bike packing. So far I'm very happy but still fiddling a bit with pressures, as a small change in PSI makes a big difference to this bike/shock combination.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

shiny said:


> NZ is close, user on local forum recently had his Mattoc repaired under warranty by Dougal but was a month turn around time due to shipping times/customs hold ups & then getting it repaired and sent back.


That one was a special case with a few customs holdups including a declared value that required a formal entry. I also had Mattoc Pro parts in stock, but not Mattoc Expert so I had to wait for those from the US.

But now we have the customs procedure down so we can manage stuff through faster. Hayes-Manitou are working on the Australian service side, but I don't know what their capability currently is and I don't want to be seen to be hijacking. Even if it is Australia.

Basically if Hayes-Manitou want something sent over to me for warranty service, I can certainly do it. But please get in contact with me before anything is sent so we can manage it through the customs importing system.

If a Mcleod contacts internally before full travel then it's simply the IFP too high. It's a straightforward service to fix that and reassemble with the correct IFP position. But it needs a few tools and experience working inside rear shocks.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks Dougal, Manitou replied and advised if I was to have the IFP issue it could be repaired by the user but caution would need to be taken as air may be trapped in places it shouldn't. 

On the fence about the McLeod, a few users have posted with the IFP issue but may just a small amount in the grand scheme.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

So, I just had my first ride with the Mcleod and I will echo what others have said. This is a very nice shock. Surprising actually. I had been running a 2013 Pushed Fox RP23 Kashima coated shock that was tuned for my 2011 Turner 5-spot. I did not think an off the shelf shock could be as good as a custom shock but the Mcleod beats it hands down. The Mcleod was really smooth on the small and medium sized stuff with great feel over the rock gardens. Big stuff was on par with the Fox unit. The only issue was a top out like feel when coming off jumps. I normally ran 200 psi in my fox (I am 200 lbs) and I used closer to 185 in the Mcleod. I ran the rebound in the middle and the IPA was off. 

The kicker is that for the price of a custom tune, you can get a whole shock that is better than the custom tuned shock - which is making me feel a little angry. The Fox unit cost me $350 and I paid $220 plus shipping for the push system (with a big hit kit). Seems like a waste of money now..


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

Vespasianus said:


> The only issue was a top out like feel when coming off jumps.


Hard top out, huh? Turner 5-spot; is your shock a 7.5 by 2? You might scroll back two pages and read post #490.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Renegade said:


> Hard top out, huh? Turner 5-spot; is your shock a 7.5 by 2? You might scroll back two pages and read post #490.


Yes, and I did think of your post. Is there any way to tell?

I was thinking of checking the can for lube and resetting the negative spring. If that does not help, I will drop a quick line to Manitou. The one thing I will say about the Fox unit is that it was very reliable. Had it serviced by Push once a year and never had a problem. I hope the Manitou is just as reliable.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Running 185psi you might be overwhelming the stock rebound stack and that causing your top-out. Manitou have a whole range of tunes for these shocks so future tuning options are certainly there.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Running 185psi you might be overwhelming the stock rebound stack and that causing your top-out. Manitou have a whole range of tunes for these shocks so future tuning options are certainly there.


Could be. I should mention that I only noticed it when hitting the lip of a jump. When I was just playing around and going back and hitting the same jump, I turned the rebound all the way and the top out went away.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Just like to give props to Dougal for his amazing service in getting my Mcleod sorted (IFP issue). :thumbsup:

Given the shock felt much better than the RP2 it replaced, even with the IFP problem, I can't wait to see how it will go now it's fully functional.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Running 185psi you might be overwhelming the stock rebound stack and that causing your top-out. Manitou have a whole range of tunes for these shocks so future tuning options are certainly there.


So I opened the can and added some grease and put it back on and the top out looks to be gone.

edit. Yes, the harsh top out is gone. The other thing I noticed is that before I removed the can, there was maybe 2.25 inches of the black shaft showing - now after greasing and setting the can, it is just a little over 2 inches. So when the negative spring goes, it almost seems if the eye to eye changes?


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

That's the only thing making me hesitate to pick up the McLeod, that sealed negative air spring. On a normal self regulating negative air spring, only place you need to worry about air leaking is the main air can seal. And if it's a slow leak there all you have to do is add air with shock pump. 


With the McLeod, if the main aircan seal OR the air piston seal leaks, even slowly, the only fix is removing the aircan to reset the negative spring. Would be cool if they could have added a valve for the negative spring so you can adjust for weight/feel/and top off if needed. 

Damper design/the method of adding compression is awesome though sooo, do you guys think the negative air can is not a big deal? 


Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

croakies said:


> That's the only thing making me hesitate to pick up the McLeod, that sealed negative air spring. On a normal self regulating negative air spring, only place you need to worry about air leaking is the main air can seal. And if it's a slow leak there all you have to do is add air with shock pump.
> 
> With the McLeod, if the main aircan seal OR the air piston seal leaks, even slowly, the only fix is removing the aircan to reset the negative spring. Would be cool if they could have added a valve for the negative spring so you can adjust for weight/feel/and top off if needed.
> 
> ...


It is hard to say. The performance is good but reliability is a big question mark. The one thing I will say about the Fox unit it replaced was I never really had to think about it. It just did its job and never failed on me. The Mcleod feels better but long term reliability is unknown. I also wonder how this shock will perform when the temps get to around 20.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

For what it's worth, when I purchased my Mcleod, and the two times I received it back from Manitou, I took off the air can, and reset the negative air volume by putting the can back on. It really needed it after receiving it after purchasing it. I do not believe I have lost any air at all from the negative chamber since. I have been VERY happy with the shock after getting my issues sorted out.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Renegade said:


> For what it's worth, when I purchased my Mcleod, and the two times I received it back from Manitou, I took off the air can, and reset the negative air volume by putting the can back on. It really needed it after receiving it after purchasing it. I do not believe I have lost any air at all from the negative chamber since. I have been VERY happy with the shock after getting my issues sorted out.


I have two rides since I reset the air can and the shock performance is very impressive. The small bump compliance is just so much better than the Fox that it is hard to believe. I this is partly because the Mcleod has a mid-stroke, which the Fox shock lacked. The big hit capability is the same as the Fox, which was always very good. If this shock is reliable, it might be the biggest steal in the MTB world.


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

I also have reset the neg pressure and the shock is good ever since. Maybe these are assembled on a hot day .


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Is this something that should be done regularly?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

TeamRWB said:


> Is this something that should be done regularly?


I am hoping not but it might be something that should be done every 6-9 months.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I have a radium expert, but it sounds like it runs the same negative spring setup with the can. 

I put a solid season on mine without opening the can, with consistent performance. *If* you had to reset the negative spring even monthly, it wouldnt be a big deal. The performance of my radium is so great that its worth it. This is the inferior shock to the mcleod, and its amazing. 

I wouldnt worry much about the negative air chamber. Its a good setup.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

One Pivot said:


> I have a radium expert, but it sounds like it runs the same negative spring setup with the can.
> 
> I put a solid season on mine without opening the can, with consistent performance. *If* you had to reset the negative spring even monthly, it wouldnt be a big deal. The performance of my radium is so great that its worth it. This is the inferior shock to the mcleod, and its amazing.
> 
> I wouldnt worry much about the negative air chamber. Its a good setup.


The radiums and recent swingers don't run an air negative spring. Just a top-out bumper.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

My TPS (tire pressure sensor) monitor in my car came on yesterday. The temperature dropped to 28 degrees. That was the culprit. Boyle's law. Should the McLeod negative air be reset for this reason? What symptom could you have to indicate a change would be good? I live in New England and the temperature range is quite high, though not too abrupt.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Tbh, you only need to do it when the shock starts feeling like its got some initial stiction.
Should only happen when temperature drops significantly from the temp when the shock aircan was first reset.

If in doubt, take 5mins to do it.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

I rode yesterday with temps close to 26 degrees without any issue. The can was set when the temps were in the 60's.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Well... I'm extremely impressed with this shock now!

Did a night ride last night on really rough trails, and completely forgot to take off the IPA after the first monster climb. (was set to 4, or full on)
Happy to say I didn't even notice, and never felt like it hampered the bike on any of the rough downhill segments!
Pattered across the worst of the of camber "death by roots" at speed without even a squirm. (complete opposite of my first ride before my aircan reset)
Super active, controlled, and best of all grin enducing 

I really can't rate this shock highly enough at the moment.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

scar4me said:


> Well... I'm extremely impressed with this shock now!
> 
> Did a night ride last night on really rough trails, and completely forgot to take off the IPA after the first monster climb. (was set to 4, or full on)
> Happy to say I didn't even notice, and never felt like it hampered the bike on any of the rough downhill segments!
> ...


The same happened to me. I forgot IPA at 3 and made 2 very steep downhills, one of them very rocky, and I did not notice it. Best of all, when I came home and uploaded my ride to strava, I found that I made personal records on both downhills


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Scar and robo, agree 100%. I rode last week with temps in the teens and the shock was amazing. The compliance of this shock is amazing. Except for one small section of trail in one place, this shocks just completely blows my old Pushed Float out of the water.


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

Haha....I did the same on my last ride. Had it on the firmest mode and hit a fast choppy section and didn't even notice until i went to flip it for the uphill. Truly and amazing shock..... ps if anyone is looking for one I got a pretty good deal at universalcycles.com . $288 for shock and ad $12 worth of more stuff and you can use the 15% off coupon and it comes to $255. Basically get the $12 item free over the 10% off coupon over $100.


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## __U3__ (Oct 4, 2015)

bdundee said:


> I tried to order one right from Manitou through my LBS for my Thunderbolt but the stars just wouldn't align so no go. Oh well it's fat bike time


Hi bdundee, did you get something back from Manitou in the meantime?


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Bad news again, today I found that my shock does not fully compress again. I get only 45mm travel instead 56mm and the shock eye2eye changed from 200mm to 197mm. At the bottom out harsh metal to metal sound. First shock I got replaced had the same issue, but this one did work correctly until now. I'm planning a 2 week bike trip to alps, but definitely I take my old RS Monarch with me as backup.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

RoboS said:


> Bad news again, today I found that my shock does not fully compress again. I get only 45mm travel instead 56mm and the shock eye2eye changed from 200mm to 197mm. At the bottom out harsh metal to metal sound. First shock I got replaced had the same issue, but this one did work correctly until now. I'm planning a 2 week bike trip to alps, but definitely I take my old RS Monarch with me as backup.


I had the same problem twice as well, but the third time I got the redesigned ifp piston and it seems to have solved the issue, though I only have limited amount of time on the third one. Did you get the new piston with your rebuild?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

__U3__ said:


> Hi bdundee, did you get something back from Manitou in the meantime?


No my lbs tried repeatedly to order me a shock with a tune plus king can (like the dude said he would do) to no avail. I didn't want to bother them anymore about it so I said forget it. Besides after tracking this thread I don't know if I'm ready to buy one with the issues they are having. As it sits right now I can ride my bike without fuss even if the shock performance is quit as good as it could be and still have a fricken hoot of a good time.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> I had the same problem twice as well, but the third time I got the redesigned ifp piston and it seems to have solved the issue, though I only have limited amount of time on the third one. Did you get the new piston with your rebuild?


Gulp. So far so good with my Mcleod but I may hold onto my old shock for a while longer...


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> Gulp. So far so good with my Mcleod but I may hold onto my old shock for a while longer...


I'm a little skeptical of buying a second one for my wife. That said, the customer service is so good it's pretty much a moot point if you have a spare.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> I'm a little skeptical of buying a second one for my wife. That said, the customer service is so good it's pretty much a moot point if you have a spare.


The performance is good but there is a lot to be said for reliability.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Bad news again, today I found that my shock does not fully compress again. I get only 45mm travel instead 56mm and the shock eye2eye changed from 200mm to 197mm. At the bottom out harsh metal to metal sound. First shock I got replaced had the same issue, but this one did work correctly until now. I'm planning a 2 week bike trip to alps, but definitely I take my old RS Monarch with me as backup.


Your IFP seal has leaked. I have only seen this once. Can you send the shock for service before you go?


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> I had the same problem twice as well, but the third time I got the redesigned ifp piston and it seems to have solved the issue, though I only have limited amount of time on the third one. Did you get the new piston with your rebuild?


They sent me the new shock, no rebuild was done.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Your IFP seal has leaked. I have only seen this once. Can you send the shock for service before you go?


I will sent it to service next week. I have lots of time before alps, but I'm losing confidence in this product, thats why I'll definitely take my old shock with me.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> The performance is good but there is a lot to be said for reliability.


It's not the best shock I have used, but it's up there. Probably the best stock inline air shock I have used. I tend to lean towards my monarch being slightly better overall, but I have spent a year working on tuning it. The McLeod is close in stock form and the spring rate of the stock can is a better match for my frame then the monarchs.

I'm going to to work on custom tunes for the McLeod this summer. If I can fix a few small issues it will blow away everything else. Just need it to be reliable.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

RoboS said:


> I will sent it to service next week. I have lots of time before alps, but I'm losing confidence in this product, thats why I'll definitely take my old shock with me.


It's a great shock when it is working but too many things are going wrong. My Fox works great and I never need to have it repaired like this one....but when it is working I do like the McLeod better. Now my IPA adjuster is so sticky it is difficult to adjust. Dougal, do you have any suggestions of how to fix this?


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

I caved and bought one, only one ride so far but very happy so far. 

Had some emails back and forward with Manitou and they said some early shocks had issues but later builds have been very reliable.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Got reply from manitou today, they will fix it free of charge and they will replace air piston on my Mattoc Pro for the new one, free of charge.
Manitou customer service is great.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I have about 700 miles on my McLeod. No issues at all. It is a very forgiving shock with regards to pressure. The IPA and rebound adjustment work very well. I am a set it and forget it kind of rider when it comes to adjustments, especially when you find a combo that works. I do check pressure and it has been holding air very well. Excellent shock.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

I ended up buying a second McLeod for my wife's bike, as well as a Marvel Pro for her. I'm going to get an ifp tool for rebuilding and tuning at home as well. I will likely ordered a third McLeod as a back up shock for me and sell my monarch. While I think my tuned Monarch has a slight edge in most areas of performance, the stock McLeod is close enough that I'm willing to drop the Monarch from my lineup. If the stock Mcleod is this good, I think a tuned McLeod will surpass my expectations.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> I ended up buying a second McLeod for my wife's bike, as well as a Marvel Pro for her. I'm going to get an ifp tool for rebuilding and tuning at home as well. I will likely ordered a third McLeod as a back up shock for me and sell my monarch. While I think my tuned Monarch has a slight edge in most areas of performance, the stock McLeod is close enough that I'm willing to drop the Monarch from my lineup. If the stock Mcleod is this good, I think a tuned McLeod will surpass my expectations.


If you tune the shim stack, please feel free to post your mods and maybe even make a walk through to help the rest of us out!:thumbsup:


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

mullen119 said:


> I ended up buying a second McLeod for my wife's bike, as well as a Marvel Pro for her. I'm going to get an ifp tool for rebuilding and tuning at home as well. I will likely ordered a third McLeod as a back up shock for me and sell my monarch. While I think my tuned Monarch has a slight edge in most areas of performance, the stock McLeod is close enough that I'm willing to drop the Monarch from my lineup. If the stock Mcleod is this good, I think a tuned McLeod will surpass my expectations.


Do you have a way to charge the IFP chamber with nitrogen? That is the main deterrent for me working on my McLeod, besides not having alternate shims to play around with the tune.
I was told that chamber comes stock with 300psi.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

yogiprophet said:


> Do you have a way to charge the IFP chamber with nitrogen? That is the main deterrent for me working on my McLeod, besides not having alternate shims to play around with the tune.
> I was told that chamber comes stock with 300psi.


I have used air for years with no ill effects on Fox, Rockshox, and manitou shocks. For that matter, isx/swinger, inline spv shocks, revox, fox dhx air, and a bunch of other shocks come with a Schrader valve for the ifp chamber to allow users to change ifp pressures if needed. The only issue when using air is its more sensitive to temperature changes.



Vespasianus said:


> If you tune the shim stack, please feel free to post your mods and maybe even make a walk through to help the rest of us out!:thumbsup:


Definitely will do this. Will be a little while though because of the weather. To be able to really note changes and keep them in perspective I need to ride a lot. It's fat bike season so regular mtb rides are too sporadic for home tuning.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Hey Dougal, do you gave ifp depth information for the McLeod? Ed said you use "the cheater method" for setting ifp and bleeding the damper, and should have tge information. I plan on doing the same thing as it sounds like the easiest way to get a solid bleed. Looking for depths for 190x50 and 165x38 configurations. Thanks in advance.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Hey Dougal, do you gave ifp depth information for the McLeod? Ed said you use "the cheater method" for setting ifp and bleeding the damper, and should have tge information. I plan on doing the same thing as it sounds like the easiest way to get a solid bleed. Looking for depths for 190x50 and 165x38 configurations. Thanks in advance.


I'm trying to remember which "cheater" method he's talking about. I have a few and a few more recent ones I haven't shown him yet.

I think he means this one. Set the IFP about 2mm clear of the piston at full compression, then bleed the shock and fully compress it. crack the bleed screw and it'll bleed off oil until the IFP just touches the damper piston.

I haven't calculated IFP depth for a 190x50 or 165x38mm McLeod before.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> I'm trying to remember which "cheater" method he's talking about. I have a few and a few more recent ones I haven't shown him yet.
> 
> I think he means this one. Set the IFP about 2mm clear of the piston at full compression, then bleed the shock and fully compress it. crack the bleed screw and it'll bleed off oil until the IFP just touches the damper piston.
> 
> I haven't calculated IFP depth for a 190x50 or 165x38mm McLeod before.


I was told 3 different ways to bleed and set ifp. The "cheater" method was similar to fox/rs methods of setting the IFP depth before you bleed and using a syringe to chase out bubbles . I can calculate on my own if needed, but he mentioned that you might know the answer so I figured I'd ask first. I might try one of the other ways as well, just good to have options. As an end user, I don't really want to invest into all the bleed tools and stuff that the factory uses to rebuild just my own shocks.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> I was told 3 different ways to bleed and set ifp. The "cheater" method was similar to fox/rs methods of setting the IFP depth before you bleed and using a syringe to chase out bubbles . I can calculate on my own if needed, but he mentioned that you might know the answer so I figured I'd ask first. I might try one of the other ways as well, just good to have options. As an end user, I don't really want to invest into all the bleed tools and stuff that the factory uses to rebuild just my own shocks.


I don't have all the factory tools either. For the McLeod I use their air valve adapter tool and that's it. The rest are tools I made for the purpose.

I can vacuum/pressure bleed these now.


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

My shock started having problems too. The warranty process was really simple and they were able to service the shock, install the updated IFP, and then get it back to me in just a few days. I live less than an hour away from them, so that may have had something to do with it.

The only weird thing is that my IPA adjuster used to have 5 positions and now it has 4. But I'm pretty sure that's how it was supposed to be from the get go.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Did they update entire IFP piston, or just the seal?


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

RoboS said:


> Did they update entire IFP piston, or just the seal?


Not 100% sure, my paperwork just says "Updated IFP Installed".


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

I could not find useful information anywhere. Is this the tool for McLeod?
Manitou 3 in 1 Shock Tool | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

RoboS said:


> I could not find useful information anywhere. Is this the tool for McLeod?
> Manitou 3 in 1 Shock Tool | Chain Reaction Cycles


No, I think that is for the older Radium/swinger series.

On a side note, I saw this: Bergamont Trailster 6.0 2016 Review | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine

First review of a bike with a McLeod on it. Not positive and not my experience.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

RoboS said:


> I could not find useful information anywhere. Is this the tool for McLeod?
> Manitou 3 in 1 Shock Tool | Chain Reaction Cycles


According to Shanan, yes, it works with the McLeod as well. I ordered one on his advice.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

First review of a bike with a McLeod on it. Not positive and not my experience.[/QUOTE]

I read the review of the Bergamont 6.0. They really didn't like that bike. They liked the way it climbed, but they complained about the McLeod stacking up in the rough stuff during descents. Sounds like the rebound was too slow. Not my experience at all.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Prophet Julio said:


> First review of a bike with a McLeod on it. Not positive and not my experience.


I read the review of the Bergamont 6.0. They really didn't like that bike. They liked the way it climbed, but they complained about the McLeod stacking up in the rough stuff during descents. Sounds like the rebound was too slow. Not my experience at all.[/QUOTE]

Not my experience either, but I did have issues with the rebound either packing up or feeling like it wanted to buck me while seated. I had manitou give me a different rebound tune and send me info/tools to further tune the rebound myself. I have yet to have the weather to test the new tune though.

There are two issues I see with the McLeod. Rebound tune being a single tune tor all bikes (just doesn't fit some bikes) and the negative air chamber. It leaks some air within a few miles, but then equalizes and stays at a steady rate. I can live with it at the steady rate, but have to run lower main can pressure to compensate. You can tell theair leaks out (other than a slightly harsher feel) because after just a short ride, when unscrew the the can, it stays up near the threads. When you install the can, the negative air pressure is high enough that you can hardly put the can on to the threads. Static position is at the bottom of the shock body rather than the top. I don't see why they skipped the self equalizing negative chamber.

The air can is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things as long as it stays steady after the initial loss in pressure. The rebound tune issue is going to depend on the rider and the bike leverage ratio, it may or may not be an issue for you, while it can be for others.

All that said, the shock performance is good enough in stock form that it made me jump ship from my other shocks to a manitou only 2016 season.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I have not removed the air can on mine, though I am very curious. But I must be in a steady state. That might explain why I prefer lower pressure than I would have thought. I do use most of the travel. The single pivot seems to match the McLeod well. It is way beyond the 3way air it replaced and in a completely new universe compared to the original Radium. 

It sounds like resetting the negative air is about as involved as resetting the bearing migration on my Lefty (5 minutes).


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Prophet Julio said:


> I have not removed the air can on mine, though I am very curious. But I must be in a steady state. That might explain why I prefer lower pressure than I would have thought. I do use most of the travel. The single pivot seems to match the McLeod well. It is way beyond the 3way air it replaced and in a completely new universe compared to the original Radium.
> 
> It sounds like resetting the negative air is about as involved as resetting the bearing migration on my Lefty (5 minutes).


The rebound is very sensitive. A 1/16th of a turn makes a big difference. No clicks is great for fine tuning.

Resetting the negative chamber is mostly pointless. Good to do every once in a while, but no reason to go overboard. I just drop the pressure 5-8psi and it works fine.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> The rebound is very sensitive. A 1/16th of a turn makes a big difference. No clicks is great for fine tuning.
> 
> Resetting the negative chamber is mostly pointless. Good to do every once in a while, but no reason to go overboard. I just drop the pressure 5-8psi and it works fine.


I am using the Mcleod on a dw linked 5-spot and generally find it to be great. There is one short, sharp downhill section I ride - no more than 100 ft of roots and logs, where the shock feels out of sorts. Just not very composed or plush (as compared to my Pushed RP23). Your comment on the sensitivity of the rebound has me thinking that I have to be finer in my modifications.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> I am using the Mcleod on a dw linked 5-spot and generally find it to be great. There is one short, sharp downhill section I ride - no more than 100 ft of roots and logs, where the shock feels out of sorts. Just not very composed or plush (as compared to my Pushed RP23). Your comment on the sensitivity of the rebound has me thinking that I have to be finer in my modifications.


Yeah, once you get it in the ball park, start doing very small tweaks and you can dial it in nicely. The lack of clicks can be annoying for returning to a previous setting, but is great when you need just a small change.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Does anybody know which kind of spacers are put into the Kingcan?
Are there special ones likes Fox´s or are they only rubber rings? And where exactly do I attach them?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> Does anybody know which kind of spacers are put into the Kingcan?
> Are there special ones likes Fox´s or are they only rubber rings? And where exactly do I attach them?


There is an oring you can move in the outer can the reduces the outer can to half volume.

They make a dense foam volume reducer for the main can, but you would need to email them for it, they don't sell them as requests for them are extremely low. Try moving the oring first.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

bansaiman said:


> Does anybody know which kind of spacers are put into the Kingcan?
> Are there special ones likes Fox´s or are they only rubber rings? And where exactly do I attach them?


I did notice that the Bergamont used a king can. I wonder if that requires more set-up and running to find the right ride, as compared to a lv can.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Vespasianus said:


> I did notice that the Bergamont used a king can. I wonder if that requires more set-up and running to find the right ride, as compared to a lv can.


If you take a look at leverage ratio of that Bergamont, its very little progressive 1:2.75-2.35 with regressive end of stroke. Something that calls for LV air can. From my own experience with Mondraker Foxy, which has almost exactly the same leverage ratio (1:2.72-2.33) except that regressive end of stroke, I have to run the small air can to avoid too frequent bottom-outs. I tried running Monarch HV air can in this frame and I found shock was bottoming too often, even with few tokens inside.

So, I guess its just another "objective" review of product that does not have massive advertisement on their site/magazine

Bergamont Trailster 2015 - Linkage Design
Mondraker Foxy 2010 - Linkage Design


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Does anybody know which kind of spacers are put into the Kingcan?
> Are there special ones likes Fox´s or are they only rubber rings? And where exactly do I attach them?


What spacers are these?

The King Can is a 2 volume can. You remove the external sleeve and move a seal position to change it from high volume to medium volume.


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## Wisconsinite762 (May 24, 2014)

Just noticed that the eyelets for my shock are rotated out of line. Can I twist them back so they are lined up, or will that mess something up?


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## Hermes475 (Mar 1, 2007)

Wisconsinite762 said:


> Just noticed that the eyelets for my shock are rotated out of line. Can I twist them back so they are lined up, or will that mess something up?


Twist them back. Won't hurt anything.


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## bgfthntr (May 18, 2009)

Has anyone tried the Manitou on a Yeti 575 2014/2015 650b? I'm tired of repairing the Float CTD.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Does anyone know if this shock will fit a 2012 Niner RIP9?


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Just measure eye to eye or look up shock spec on the frame now


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

The Mcleod comes in the size I need 200x50.
That's not the issue the, the air can size is the problem. At full compression certain shocks will make contact with the seat tube at the bottom of the stroke. Because of this I'm limited to what shock I can use. The frame came with an RP23 on it which is a POS.
So far I can't find a decent shock that will fit.
My only other option is to send off the current shock to Push.
I was wondering if any one on here has replaced their RIP9 shock with a Mcleod.
Niner is less than helpful with any information. They just tell me that shock was tuned for that frame and that they don't recommend using another shock.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I have a McLeod with 200 x 50 and a Fox Float R with 200 x 50 as well. I don't know if the RP23 is exactly the same as the Float R but the Fox is a bit thinner than the McLeod. But 1/8" is about it.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

I have a 200x50 McLeod, the shock is used for two sizes, the 200x50 and the 200x57, so on the shorter size there is 10mm of shaft that it is not used, this may give you enough breathing space on the frame as the can never goes to the end. 

Might be worth flicking an email to Mainotu to see if they have had any installed on a Niner.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Thanks everyone, but the Mcleod won't fit my frame.
Contacted Manitou and they said the niner rip9's that they had at the facility all had the stock fox shocks leading them to believe that it doesn't fit.
The rep said that if the shock did fit those bikes all would have one on them.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Well, there's what fits and what the manufacturer says will fit. If you can get one with a return shipping cost only, then try it. Mail it back regular post if it doesn't fit. Make that niner rip if it does fit! It's worth a look in my opinion.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

Did you check in the niner forum? Maybe there are Rip9 owners that have tried it.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Check the TrailMaster's post from August 6th in this same thread about how excited he is to have McLeod in his RIP9


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

arnea said:


> Check the TrailMaster's post from August 6th in this same thread about how excited he is to have McLeod in his RIP9


Post #333 on page 14.


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## Indreq (Dec 1, 2015)

I want to get rid of DTSwiss shock on my 2012 Scott Spark 29 Pro frame. Does McLeod fit there? I have heard that Fox shocks from newer Sparks do not fit onto 2012 frame, so i look for other options.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Rngspnr said:


> Thanks everyone, but the Mcleod won't fit my frame.
> Contacted Manitou and they said the niner rip9's that they had at the facility all had the stock fox shocks leading them to believe that it doesn't fit.
> The rep said that if the shock did fit those bikes all would have one on them.


Very odd as the Rip9 appears to use a simple RP23 with no funny mounting or cradle. Looks to be a simple linkage. For the life of me, I can't see it not fitting. Measure the eye-to-eye and if it a normal 190 X 50 or 200 X 50, you should be good to go.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

The length and stroke is fine the issue is at full compression with the RP23 there is just shy of 4mm space between the shock can and the seat tube.
So any can that is 4mm larger in diameter has the potential to contact the frame at full compression.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

RP23 can appears to be 47,5mm on the top and 40,5mm at the bottom. I measured it from the drawing.

Manitou list McLeod can as 43mm outer diameter. The top part is thicker - measured from the drawing it also seems to be 47.5mm

So if there is 4mm between RP23 can and seat tube then McLeod should fit just fine.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

Rngspnr said:


> The length and stroke is fine the issue is at full compression with the RP23 there is just shy of 4mm space between the shock can and the seat tube.
> So any can that is 4mm larger in diameter has the potential to contact the frame at full compression.


might be worth trying it if the shop has a return policy in case it doesn't fit.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Thanks everyone. I've realized that even though the Mcleod is about 6mm wider if I spit that difference I should have just enough clearance.
Gonna give it a try.


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## caste (Dec 5, 2014)

Hi guys, how much difficult is to reduce the stroke on the McLeod? I have a NukeProof Mega AM with a CCDB for DH duties, I was considering getting a McLeod 216x63 and shortening the stroke to 57 to reduce rear travel from 160mm to 145mm while keeping the standard 216 e2e length.
Thanks!


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Simple as putting in a 6mm plastic washer on the shaft under the bottom out ring. Cut it at a diagonal, so you can twist it on. Might want to get a lighter to melt it back slightly to help avoid it separating under pressure too.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Does anyone have a McLeod on a spider 275? Is it a good option for a 130mm bike?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

nashwillis said:


> Does anyone have a McLeod on a spider 275? Is it a good option for a 130mm bike?


I have it on a 140mm Dw linked 5-spot and it works fantastic. I also recently tried a Monarch Debonair and the two felt very similar. Both were miles ahead of my RP23 (which is pushed). The Monarch was not dramatically better than the Mcleod and my LBS wan't over $400 for it, so.....


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

nashwillis said:


> Does anyone have a McLeod on a spider 275? Is it a good option for a 130mm bike?


I have a Mcleod on my Spider 275.....love it. I have riden that frame with the Monarch RT3 and the stock Xfusion O2. The Mcleod blows them both away. I really am liking the shock a lot on this bike. I am over 200lbs and it handle very well especially on fast chunky descents.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

I finally got to ride my SwitchBack Unveil 9 with the Mcleod. Still to early for solid review/feedback, but was extremely happy on my ride yesterday.

I hit technical trails and some DH and it handled everything very well. MTF....


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

TeamRWB said:


> I finally got to ride my SwitchBack Unveil 9 with the Mcleod. Still to early for solid review/feedback, but was extremely happy on my ride yesterday.
> 
> I hit technical trails and some DH and it handled everything very well. MTF....


Wow MONTHS later!. I have been away from the boards for a while just because of life and having to rebuild the engine on my Land Cruiser but with the weather the way it has been in the last couple weeks (getting into the high 60s most days) the trails are drying out quick and I am going to be riding soon. Time to get the Thumper out and do a little winter rehab!!!!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

So the remote kit finally arrived. I'll try to get some pics in a few days.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

gregnash said:


> Wow MONTHS later!. I have been away from the boards for a while just because of life and having to rebuild the engine on my Land Cruiser but with the weather the way it has been in the last couple weeks (getting into the high 60s most days) the trails are drying out quick and I am going to be riding soon. Time to get the Thumper out and do a little winter rehab!!!!


Yeah I know! Family, work, and weather trumped. Went out again today. Loving it!

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Dougal said:


> So the remote kit finally arrived. I'll try to get some pics in a few days.


Now im definitely interested in this, because so far to me all the IFP positions give me something different.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Dougal said:


> So the remote kit finally arrived. I'll try to get some pics in a few days.


Does the remote allow the usage of all positions or is it like the old MILO remote where you basically got to set the remote between two positions, or in the case of the Tower you could set a couple of clicks that would be through the turn of the knob.

Oh and REALLY REALLY debating on if I want to change my fork to a Manitou offering this year. Have been waiting for years for a Mattoc 29r but does not seem like that is going to happen. So either I go with a Minute Pro to keep my current front hub/wheel or step up to a Magnum+ in either 27.5 (because it will fit a standard 29er tire) or 29 and go big in the front. ut:


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

gregnash said:


> Does the remote allow the usage of all positions or is it like the old MILO remote where you basically got to set the remote between two positions, or in the case of the Tower you could set a couple of clicks that would be through the turn of the knob.
> 
> Oh and REALLY REALLY debating on if I want to change my fork to a Manitou offering this year. Have been waiting for years for a Mattoc 29r but does not seem like that is going to happen. So either I go with a Minute Pro to keep my current front hub/wheel or step up to a Magnum+ in either 27.5 (because it will fit a standard 29er tire) or 29 and go big in the front. ut:


The 29+ front wheel/tire is amazing if it works for your bike. I have a 29+ on the front of all 3 of my bikes from HT to full on Enduro with the 60tpi Dirt Wizard.

To answer your question, the remote is 2 position, but I use the Fox remote that has 3 positions and that pretty much covers everything. The Fox has about the exact same range as the Manitou remote.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

I found out that the issue with the TOP OUT Thump was indeed the shock just needing a negative air chamber reset. My shock also was in bad need of lube. 
Apparently, the McLeods don't come from the factory with enough lube and so need to be taken apart and re-lubed before much use.


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## Energetik (Feb 7, 2008)

I just got one for my Prophet build after searching high and low for a Radium rebuild kit with no luck. I only have a parking lot test on it so far but it felt great there. No true test of course, but its just getting warm here and the trails will be soup for a while anyway. I expect good things.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Energetik said:


> I just got one for my Prophet build after searching high and low for a Radium rebuild kit with no luck. I only have a parking lot test on it so far but it felt great there. No true test of course, but its just getting warm here and the trails will be soup for a while anyway. I expect good things.


There are no kits as such for the radium. But I have all the bits and can put one together for you if you need.


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## BIKEBROS2 (Dec 27, 2009)

King can.....


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

I'm really surprised they didn't increase the negative chamber size out into the outer chamber of the king can at the same time.
Would've been a nice tuning option. (wouldn't have needed much, just enough to use a couple of oRings for volume tuning)

Not that the McLeod has anything wrong with it's current initial sensitivity  .

Scar


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Energetik said:


> I just got one for my Prophet build after searching high and low for a Radium rebuild kit with no luck. I only have a parking lot test on it so far but it felt great there. No true test of course, but its just getting warm here and the trails will be soup for a while anyway. I expect good things.


I've had mine on my Prophet for 6 months or so. Great set up.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Quick question for you suspension gurus. I have been told once you switch to carbon rims that you will have to readjust suspension is this correct?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

scar4me said:


> I'm really surprised they didn't increase the negative chamber size out into the outer chamber of the king can at the same time.
> Would've been a nice tuning option. (wouldn't have needed much, just enough to use a couple of oRings for volume tuning)


Don't forget that even Fox's newest Float X2 doesn't have a negative sleeved chamber photo


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

TeamRWB said:


> Quick question for you suspension gurus. I have been told once you switch to carbon rims that you will have to readjust suspension is this correct?


I would believe so... there are plenty of videos out there showing how aluminum rims flex with the different types of spokes. Carbon rims DO NOT flex like the aluminum rims which adds to the rigidity you will end up feeling through the bike. You will more than likely want to setup things a little softer. Good friend told me that ANYTIME you make some sort of suspension related change, to include tires, you should do a small reset of the suspension as things have changed.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

TeamRWB said:


> Quick question for you suspension gurus. I have been told once you switch to carbon rims that you will have to readjust suspension is this correct?


Nope. I switch between. No adjustments needed.
Either that or I'm not pro enough


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Thanks guys, and heck if we were pro enough it wouldnt matter id have my bike guy take care of it lol


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I tweaked my suspension settings a bit after I switched to carbon fiber hoops. The stiffness of the wheels changes the ride so I just took the time to set the McLeod up properly. I think the stiffer wheels make any under performing aspects of the suspension more noticeable. I lowered the compression (IPA) to offset the stiffness of the wheels and dialed in the rebound using the "curb method". I have considered lowering the pressure as well, but I haven't got around to that yet. Still getting used to the two new things (McLeod and LB 38mm hoops).


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Got the Mcleod and installed it on my RIP9. For anyone with a RIP9 this shock fits fine. The air can is 10mm shorter than the RP23 so it doesn't even come close to contacting the frame at the bottom. The king can for this shock would also not be a problem on this frame.
Only one ride so far but completely different feel than the RP23. Much firmer ride, way more mid stroke support but still really nice on hits and square ledges. No wallowing at all. Much more efficient suspension now. Rode in descend mode no need to make any firmer IMO. Still need to mess with pressure settings and break the shock in. 125psi got 45mm of compression with rider weight of approx 230lbs. Suspecting it will be fantastic when broken in. Stiffest setting almost completely locked out. First impression, I really like the way it feels. If anyone is considering this shock I don't think they'd be disappointed.


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## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

I just finished the rear shock change on my Stumpjumper FSR Elite 2007. I replaced the original Fox Triad with a McLeod 200x50mm. Test rolling on the street seems fine. First full test on the trails has to wait a bit :-(
But I am already looking firward to that  
Thanks to all of you for the valuable information in this thread. Without I probably never would have known about the option to replace the Triad on my bike with the McLeod.


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## BIKEBROS2 (Dec 27, 2009)

King can....before and after!


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Nice, what bike is it going on? 

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## BIKEBROS2 (Dec 27, 2009)

..on "cube 120 29".....


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

So far loving mine! I think I've settled on 120psi for now with rebound in the middle give or take. It might change once she's broken in. I mainly ride in position 2-4. But it definitely fits the suspension design of my frame to a T thanks (gregnash)

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

3 rides on mine so far love it! Really brings the bike to life. Running mine at 110psi with 2/3 rebound. In descend position #1 gets full travel, so far no bottom out. Been riding in trail setting #2 works really well. My bike climbed good before but now it's just amazing. Excellent traction no mush at all. I can finally stand and pedal. Shock almost feels linear.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Man had to pack the bike up to move to Germany, but did one last epic ride by Red Rocks in Colorado. Dakota Ridge or Hogs back I believe is what its called. Super technical ups and downs rocks and stairs etc.. Man the Mcleod ate it all up. It felt like I was floating over some of the sections. Hopefully I can find some sweet trails in Germany, and it looks like parks are becoming a thing there. But so far the Mcleod hasn't disappointed!

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

TeamRWB said:


> Man had to pack the bike up to move to Germany, but did one last epic ride by Red Rocks in Colorado. Dakota Ridge or Hogs back I believe is what its called. Super technical ups and downs rocks and stairs etc.. Man the Mcleod ate it all up. It felt like I was floating over some of the sections. Hopefully I can find some sweet trails in Germany, and it looks like parks are becoming a thing there. But so far the Mcleod hasn't disappointed!
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


Sorry to hear that but I think Germany has some good trails! Also, are you being deployed? If so, thanks for your service and hope you get home soon!:thumbsup:


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Thankfully no deployment(yet) just a 3-5yr tour. Thank you for the support. I have been before, but work took most of my time. So I am hoping this go round I can rip Germany and some of Europe!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

GL with the move. Sure there are some great trails there. Check out the magazine Enduro MTB as they are based out of Germany I believe but are all over. From some of their articles they have some great trails plus you are within a day's trip to just about anywhere with epic riding.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

*The McLeods Have Lifted*

Hey all;

I posted some time back when my McLeod first arrived from Manitou. To refresh, my RIP9 came with the wretched Fox RP23; the worst suspension component I've ever had since the elastomer days. I spent two years discovering that there was no way to tune it to work right, and I wasn't going to spend money to PUSH it if it needed rebuilding every 15 minutes. As a consequence, that great bike sat in the garage for a few years, virtually unridden.

Enter the McLeod, and everything changed. Right out of the box in standard form, it was a huge revelation. I could actually ride the bike again and sort of enjoy myself. However, due to my 240lb mass, it still was not quite up to snuff, lacking in midstroke spring rate and compression damping. Light years better, yes, but not sufficient. Discussions with Mr. Manitou over all these years have yielded many good ideas, and much feedback going both ways. The latest tidbit for me was to be the King Can, which was promised to cure what amounted to lack of enough midstroke spring rate with the small can. Here's the deal.

The King Can is larger volume and much more linear in rate, which lowers the overall progressiveness of the spring curve to an equally significant degree. However, it allows you to run more pressure to increase the rate without giving up full use of available travel. Further, this increased midstroke rate would also get rid of the dead feeling rear end, forcing the wheel back down faster, and allowing the rebound circuit to work properly. This was the bill of goods I was sold, and I am here to tell you that it was much more than worth the wait!! M*U*C*H !!!!!!!

I will copy here the test notes I sent to Mr. Manitou discussing my first experience with the King Can;

_* I went for a very short bomb tonight, and you will be very happy to hear that you are good at what you are doing, and you do indeed seem to know what you are talking about. What follows will prove out your prognostications almost to the letter. The terrain I rode tonight is quite a bit rougher than what I rode Sunday, so it was a good test that the small air can struggled with.

I rode up a small grade the first 40' away from the car, and it was immediately apparent that 140 *_(my previous pressure with the standard can) *was too soft. I stuck with it for another 100yds before stopping to add 10. I was not measuring anything, but by feel it was way too soft. Worse than it felt before. Mush. In looking now where the telltale is with no air, at the very bottom, I was very close at 140, and I'm guessing not much different at 150. The terrain is rough, but it is flat to uphill. Seated peddling mostly. I had not even stressed it with any downhill terrain or speed yet. More than as a test, I reasoned by what I was sensing, and knowing what was behind me compared to ahead, that I wanted to go another 10 to 160. This is where I finished the ride.

The telltale says that 0 air gives a total available travel of 42.86mm (converted [1.6875"] from the 32nds scale I measured with). On terrain that I know well (even on only my 2nd ride of the year) and at a pace that I consider to about as hard as I ride most of the time, I used 37.3mm of travel at 160, or 87.02%. Only another 5.55mm left. I would call that about perfect. There is some rougher terrain to be had there, but I'm not up to it yet in this young season. There are the numbers.

And, the subjectives? Absolute silk! No matter the pressure, the ride was amazingly "quiet." I assume you understand the drift of that term. It did not even seem like the back end was there. It absorbed everything from the smallest chatter to the biggest compressions, rocks, and roots with utter "silence." Before I would have called it butter. It was smooth but kind of thick. Now, it is smooth and light as a feather. Frankly, it is pretty stunning. The deadness is F'n GONE! I really did not ever get the sense that I was using that much of the travel, but 87% is pretty close.

I will need to put some more miles on it and let the performance sink in a bit, because right now, I'm not even sure what I would try to do to improve it? I added a bit more rebound near the end. I need to spend some time tinkering with that, from full fast to slow, to get a feel for the effect of the range, but this was a short 2 mile blast to give a prelim. Another thing that occurs to me suddenly is to pump the rear tire up nice and hard and see if that makes it any noisier. I'm running 2.4 Ardents, and even though they are not even close to 2.4, they are quite compliant, which modifies the spring rate and damping.

The one thing that did not go as expected was the fork performance *(Tower Pro 140/20TA)*. It actually stood up pretty damn well in relative terms. Granted, it was a short ride, but I did not spend a lot of time thinking about it (as opposed to trying to ignore it, which is always a good measure), and about all I can say is that it felt a little dead and/or a bit noisy, or very slightly less plush compared to the rear. It is possible that a little tweak to the rebound would quiet it down. It is also equally possible that your spring pressure theorem will apply here to; that the front needs a bit more rate for more push back against the ground to regain a live feel. Lastly, tire pressure may have played a roll here as well. I have a hard time now going back to skinny rates after being almost exclusively fat - and running mondo low pressures (single digits!) - for so long.

So....... I'm just kind of lost for a direction. Subtlety can be quite stunning. It's a slight change, compared to the replacement of the much loathed RP23, but a dramatic result. Give me some direction here, Yoda. Something you want me to try, or prove, or disprove, or whatever. Otherwise, I'll just have to try and enjoy this damn thing with nothing to think about anymore. I'm not sure if I can ?!?!?!?!?!?!
*

So, there you have it. The short of it is that if you are a Clyde like me, or ride really hard, or just feel like you are not getting enough rate to make it work right, or the rear end of your ride has that dead lifeless feel, get the *King Can* without delay. I have not even begun to tune it yet, and I HAVE NEVER HAD REAR SUSPENSION SO QUIET, SMOOTH, AND LIVELY IN MY WHOLE RIDING LIFE!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Great write-up John!!! 
And I have to completely agree that the shock simply disappears below you. Today was my first ride in months, completed a little over 6 miles in my normal track. This was a VERY slow climbing ride as I havent done anything "exercise" related in probably a little over a month (been sick and family stuff going on, plus random weather). So this is literally the start to my riding season. Just weighed myself at 181lbs without shoes or pack/helmet so figure another 10lbs for everything once fully kitted up. I checked my pressures before the ride and set the McLeod at 115 for me. 

Once I got to the first real downhill section I realized I had completely forgot to put it in to trail mode (was still in lock). Yet going through the few rock gardens, small lips and drops that I take at speed along with the two stair cases I would have thought that she was wide open as it absorbed everything perfectly. And like you said John, quietly and like SILK!

Don't know that the King Can would be beneficial to me as I do not feel any "deadness" in the stroke, maybe if I was over 200lbs then that might be a different story. But at my speeds, aggressive riding style and more trail oriented fun type bike, I think that this has been a PERFECT coupling to the Horst Link suspension vs. the Old CTD.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

gregnash said:


> Great write-up John!!!
> And I have to completely agree that the shock simply disappears below you. Today was my first ride in months, completed a little over 6 miles in my normal track. This was a VERY slow climbing ride as I havent done anything "exercise" related in probably a little over a month (been sick and family stuff going on, plus random weather). So this is literally the start to my riding season. Just weighed myself at 181lbs without shoes or pack/helmet so figure another 10lbs for everything once fully kitted up. I checked my pressures before the ride and set the McLeod at 115 for me.
> 
> Once I got to the first real downhill section I realized I had completely forgot to put it in to trail mode (was still in lock). Yet going through the few rock gardens, small lips and drops that I take at speed along with the two stair cases I would have thought that she was wide open as it absorbed everything perfectly. And like you said John, quietly and like SILK!
> ...


I am close to 205 lbs and I never thought I would need the king can. I got one just to try and it really does work. Very plush and works very well with the IPA turned on. Highly underrated shock.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Vespasianus, so you have the King Can on your bike? Like I said, I weighed myself and was surprised to see that I was still in the low 180 range. Wondering if there is a true weight range that is optimal for the King Can.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

I fluctuate so much it might be worth a try. Im 195 w/o kit right now. But when im in shape im around 185-190.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

gregnash said:


> Vespasianus, so you have the King Can on your bike? Like I said, I weighed myself and was surprised to see that I was still in the low 180 range. Wondering if there is a true weight range that is optimal for the King Can.


Yes. Just got it last week. Works great on my dw linked 5-spot. Even plusher on the small stuff and really smooth on the rough big stuff. Highly recommended.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

So my two cents on the McLeod. My son was riding with one with the standard can on his DW 5 spot. He said it felt good, but not as good as the RP23 that had been worked over by Suspension Experts. My wife wanted the 5 Spot since my son was getting towards the tall end of it, so he ended up on a Burner. In the meantime, I had replaced my older spot with Burner and taken the McLeod and put it on my new-used Burner with a King Can (set to middle volume). My impressions of it at 235 pounds (running about 220 PSI) was that is is really supportive, plush, and tracked well. It felt very similar to my TNT linked Spot with a pushed RP23. 

Meanwhile, my son's Burner came with a Cane Creek Inline. While he was exited about it, he said it just didn't feel right, a bit harsh in the midtravel. When he wasn't looking, I swapped the McLeod with the big can onto his Burner and set it at 135 psi for his 150 pounds. He *****ed at me for doing it and I told him to ride it. When he got back he said he was keeping the McLeod. He said it was plusher than the Cane Creek and more supportive in the midtravel. It also feels balanced with his Mattoc on the front according to him. (He is a very fast rider, won the local downhill series last year in his class, but getting him to describe what he feels is hell, but he is 12). 

I'm going to give the Inline a try to see what I think, keeping in mind I need to make sure it is tuned right. That said, I have a second McLeod and will be ordering the King Can for it. If I like the inline more, I will put the other McLeod on the wife's bike, if not, I will sell the inline. Unfortunately, it will be a few weeks, as work is 7 days a week right now.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

@Cary, the McLeod was actually developed to go along with the Mattoc!!! So yeah he is spot on that it seems like they were meant for one another. Glad to hear that he is liking it so much and I am sure as it progresses and breaks-in he will like it more and more. Still feel it is a phenomenal shock, especially for the price. 

Sell off the Inline and get yourself a McLeod and go forward!


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

To bad they dont make the Mattoc in 29er


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

TeamRWB said:


> To bad they dont make the Mattoc in 29er


It is supposed to be the Magnum which is available as either 27.5+/29er, or 29+.

Unfortunately the Magnum Pro is only available in 29+ 100mm travel with boost 110 axle. So if you wanted a 140mm 29er, you have to get the comp 27.5+, which is a big step down.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

TeamRWB said:


> To bad they dont make the Mattoc in 29er


Maybe this year.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Cary said:


> Maybe this year.


It's not coming, per the chief engineer


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah, I have been talking with one of their test bed guys and really it is not in the works. Justification, that I see, is that the market has all but forgotten about 29ers and everything is switched to the hype around 27.5 and mid-fat. 

So either we have to go with another vendor for something similar but even that is starting to waine with regards to standard 29ers (see RS new release of '17 Pike and Yari) where everything is moving to BOOST hubs. 

For now, I just don't have the money to upgrade so that is coming off the list. IF I were to get money to do it, or need, then I would probably go with the Magnum 27.5 at 140mm and upgrade my front wheel to boost hub to accommodate. I will NEVER purchase another FOX product so that really leaves me with RS or MRP for really substantial 29er forks in an AM/TRAIL offering.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

What we have now is 27+ fits 29 and all forks seem to be migrating to 110mm axles. 

So the 29 inch Mattoc is the 27+ magnum. But yes it's only 140mm max.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

gregnash said:


> @Cary, the McLeod was actually developed to go along with the Mattoc!!! So yeah he is spot on that it seems like they were meant for one another. Glad to hear that he is liking it so much and I am sure as it progresses and breaks-in he will like it more and more. Still feel it is a phenomenal shock, especially for the price.
> 
> Sell off the Inline and get yourself a McLeod and go forward!


That's the one thing I wish my McLeod has was HBO, with my suspenion curve being very linear it uses all of the travel very easily, whilst I have not felt it bottom out harshly yet would like to have a little in reserve for the big hits. Been meaning to contact Manitou to see if there was any spacers that could be used to provide a touch of ramp up towards the end of the stroke.

Otherwise I am blown away by this shock, the mid stroke is amazing and small bump compliance is excellent.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

shiny said:


> That's the one thing I wish my McLeod has was HBO, with my suspenion curve being very linear it uses all of the travel very easily, whilst I have not felt it bottom out harshly yet would like to have a little in reserve for the big hits. Been meaning to contact Manitou to see if there was any spacers that could be used to provide a touch of ramp up towards the end of the stroke.
> 
> Otherwise I am blown away by this shock, the mid stroke is amazing and small bump compliance is excellent.


Throw some grease in the can or make a small band to take up space.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

gregnash said:


> @Cary, the McLeod was actually developed to go along with the Mattoc!!! So yeah he is spot on that it seems like they were meant for one another. Glad to hear that he is liking it so much and I am sure as it progresses and breaks-in he will like it more and more. Still feel it is a phenomenal shock, especially for the price.
> 
> Sell off the Inline and get yourself a McLeod and go forward!


King Can on the way as I have a second McLeod. The ifp on the one on the Kids bike just started acting up so it's on its way to manitou.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

shiny said:


> That's the one thing I wish my McLeod has was HBO, with my suspenion curve being very linear it uses all of the travel very easily, whilst I have not felt it bottom out harshly yet would like to have a little in reserve for the big hits. Been meaning to contact Manitou to see if there was any spacers that could be used to provide a touch of ramp up towards the end of the stroke.
> 
> Otherwise I am blown away by this shock, the mid stroke is amazing and small bump compliance is excellent.


Kinda surprised at your experience of the regular can not being progressive enough.
I'm running mine on a highly digressive rate suspension, that is almost the polar opposite to all the common designs out there now.
(starts 2:1 then goes up to 3:1 at bottom out)
It works out well tbh, as when you work out the overal kinematics (frame+shock) it gives super supple initial stroke, and then stays linear as it gets into the travel until bottomout.

I've never had to touch the progressiveness of the air can.
I'm 200lb rider, and don't ride gently so was expecting to have to adjust the can volume when i first got it but never did.
The only thing I do do is ride most of the time on the 2nd or 3rd IPA setting even on most downhills.
That gives the rear end much less wallow, and i'll only bother to reduce it if going into uber rough fast downhill trails. (I found the same wallow unavoidable when using my BOS Void)

If you tried the king can it would mean you could run a higher pressure for overall sag, and give more support through the stroke. There are plenty of info graphs of what the kingcan does to the shock dynamics, so you can make judgement.

TBH if you've not actually felt it bottom, then your riding fine and don't need to adjust it.
Just keep an eye on the travel Oring incase you're getting too close to full travel.

Scar


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

shiny said:


> That's the one thing I wish my McLeod has was HBO, with my suspenion curve being very linear it uses all of the travel very easily, whilst I have not felt it bottom out harshly yet would like to have a little in reserve for the big hits. Been meaning to contact Manitou to see if there was any spacers that could be used to provide a touch of ramp up towards the end of the stroke.
> 
> Otherwise I am blown away by this shock, the mid stroke is amazing and small bump compliance is excellent.


You know the bottom out bumper looks to just be a small rubber ring that sits in the air can. I wonder if you could just stack a more of those in the can to further increase the bottom out.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

shiny said:


> That's the one thing I wish my McLeod has was HBO, with my suspenion curve being very linear it uses all of the travel very easily, whilst I have not felt it bottom out harshly yet would like to have a little in reserve for the big hits. Been meaning to contact Manitou to see if there was any spacers that could be used to provide a touch of ramp up towards the end of the stroke.
> 
> Otherwise I am blown away by this shock, the mid stroke is amazing and small bump compliance is excellent.


The Mcleod can be bled with an extra cc of oil in the damper which builds significant progression.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

shiny said:


> That's the one thing I wish my McLeod has was HBO, with my suspenion curve being very linear it uses all of the travel very easily, whilst I have not felt it bottom out harshly yet would like to have a little in reserve for the big hits. Been meaning to contact Manitou to see if there was any spacers that could be used to provide a touch of ramp up towards the end of the stroke.
> 
> Otherwise I am blown away by this shock, the mid stroke is amazing and small bump compliance is excellent.


They do make spacers for the air can, I have them(and needed them) for a previous bike. They are not sold as it's very uncommon that they are needed though. Email manitou and they will likely send you them for free.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> What we have now is 27+ fits 29 and all forks seem to be migrating to 110mm axles.
> 
> So the 29 inch Mattoc is the 27+ magnum. But yes it's only 140mm max.


This is the exact solution. Boost is here to stay, so if you're buying a new fork, might as well upgrade.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I think that Sea Otter is going to foretell a lot this year. Curious to see what all comes out of it. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks for the replies, might see if I can hit Manitou up for some spacers first.

Vespasianus, your Turner is DW-Link? Does use the travel easily? I might try playing with air pressures as well.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

shiny said:


> Thanks for the replies, might see if I can hit Manitou up for some spacers first.
> 
> Vespasianus, your Turner is DW-Link? Does use the travel easily? I might try playing with air pressures as well.


Shiny, yup, I have a dw-linked 5-spot. With the normal can, I would run roughly my weight (200 psi) and would use about 40-45 mm of shock stroke (190 X 50.8 shock). If I ran lower pressure, I would lose some mid-stroke but would still only really use 40-45 mm of stroke. The ramp up at the end is really hard and I don't think the LV can was helping. It almost felt like it bottom out but did not really get there. If I dumped the air, the shock would get 50mm of stroke.

It really did not bother me as the shock felt great even with that issue. My old Pushed RP23 was set-up the same way. I also thought that the King can would be too linear for me. However, Cary actually mentioned getting the King can and his weight was not far from mine and I thought I would give it a try.

Well, with the king can, I run about 15 PSI over my weight (215 PSI) and the shock is even better. I am using ~48 mm of shock stroke on my hard rides and the shock actually still has great mid-stroke. The king can really is a performance upgrade for all people.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Vespasianus said:


> Shiny, yup, I have a dw-linked 5-spot. With the normal can, I would run roughly my weight (200 psi) and would use about 40-45 mm of shock stroke (190 X 50.8 shock). If I ran lower pressure, I would lose some mid-stroke but would still only really use 40-45 mm of stroke. The ramp up at the end is really hard and I don't think the LV can was helping. It almost felt like it bottom out but did not really get there. If I dumped the air, the shock would get 50mm of stroke.
> 
> It really did not bother me as the shock felt great even with that issue. My old Pushed RP23 was set-up the same way. I also thought that the King can would be too linear for me. However, Cary actually mentioned getting the King can and his weight was not far from mine and I thought I would give it a try.
> 
> Well, with the king can, I run about 15 PSI over my weight (215 PSI) and the shock is even better. I am using ~48 mm of shock stroke on my hard rides and the shock actually still has great mid-stroke. The king can really is a performance upgrade for all people.


Are you running the King can in the middle or hi volume position? I ask as Manitou suggested the middle position, which provides more midtravel support than the original can or in the high volume position. Running in the middle, I am running about 15psi under my weight (as is the kid at 145 pounds) for 30 percent sag.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Cary said:


> Are you running the King can in the middle or hi volume position?  I ask as Manitou suggested the middle position, which provides more midtravel support than the original can or in the high volume position. Running in the middle, I am running about 15psi under my weight (as is the kid at 145 pounds) for 30 percent sag.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


Actually, I don't know. I installed it right as it came. It might be the hi volume can, which may explain my air pressure. Feels fantastic.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks Vespasianus, I am running 120psi (Ibis DW Link) and weigh around around 80kg (176lbs), I did try a higher pressure but felt it was too firm but now the shock has had some use and broken in will trying bumping again.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

shiny said:


> Thanks Vespasianus, I am running 120psi (Ibis DW Link) and weigh around around 80kg (176lbs), I did try a higher pressure but felt it was too firm but now the shock has had some use and broken in will trying bumping again.


Shiny, do you have a original Mojo?

Honestly, with Manitou, I would call them and tell them of your situation and see what they can do. They may be able to tune it for you or do some of the things Dougal recommended.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Vespasianus said:


> Actually, I don't know. I installed it right as it came. It might be the hi volume can, which may explain my air pressure. Feels fantastic.


You must have it at the high volume. Mid provides more mid support and bottom out protection, but given how it is working, I would leave it unless you start bottoming it at the proper sag. Given how progressive the linkage is on the spot and burner, I'm not surprised the high volume works well.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

As my nbikecame with high volume monarch rc3 I yuse the king can with mid volume setting, thus 1 o ring on halfway of th eouter chamber. If then somene would want to decrease the volum efurther, you could fill the rest of the remaining chamber with further rubber o rings. BUt this setuo seems to be great as I have somehing like 2mm left from 63. BUT i will send it to manitou for giving it a stiffer shim.
or has anybody an instruction online for that. And do I need a special highprice tool? 
Because on a 120 travel rearend of a friends bike the Mcleod was very plush but supportung when open and almost locked when fully closed. But on my bike with 160mm it really is too little difference when fully closed. So I know it just has to be a little customtuned for my bike and weight.
BEsides when reading all the positive feedback from users it is so astonishing that the bergamont bikes are all quoted bad with the mcleod. seems they are not setup for the trailster. Pretty bad an dpoor idea of a bike manufacturer. Wasted potential.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

So, today I finished with McLeod. I never want to see it again on my bike. Its broken again, its having 47mm of travel instead of 56mm, its stuck down 9 mm. This happened after 5 rides since it was repaired by Manitou. Issues before were 2x main piston hitting IFP at 45-50mm travel, now its not extending to full lenght.
The performance is really great, when its working, but after so many issues I will be glad to purchase some other shock. I'll trade performance for reliability.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

RoboS said:


> So, today I finished with McLeod. I never want to see it again on my bike. Its broken again, its having 47mm of travel instead of 56mm, its stuck down 9 mm. This happened after 5 rides since it was repaired by Manitou. Issues before were 2x main piston hitting IFP at 45-50mm travel, now its not extending to full lenght.
> The performance is really great, when its working, but after so many issues I will be glad to purchase some other shock. I'll trade performance for reliability.


That sucks, sorry to hear that but I don't blame you after that many go rounds. I would send it to them one last time to be fixed and then throw on ebay for sale. Then grab something like a RS Monarch RT3 or something. I would not recommend getting a CTD Fox as I had nothing but problems with mine and in the end Fox basically told me that it was "not a warranty issue it was a normal use item" and thus I would have to pay $150 to have the shock serviced, this was after less than a year and 50hrs of riding. But that was not the first time they had done something like that to me so I have completely written them off.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

RoboS said:


> So, today I finished with McLeod. I never want to see it again on my bike. Its broken again, its having 47mm of travel instead of 56mm, its stuck down 9 mm. This happened after 5 rides since it was repaired by Manitou. Issues before were 2x main piston hitting IFP at 45-50mm travel, now its not extending to full lenght.
> The performance is really great, when its working, but after so many issues I will be glad to purchase some other shock. I'll trade performance for reliability.


Man that is scary. Without question, reliability is 100% the most important aspect of any piece of equipment. Fox Float shocks are very reliable. I can't say I have had a failure of a Float shock in close to 10 years.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> So, today I finished with McLeod. I never want to see it again on my bike. Its broken again, its having 47mm of travel instead of 56mm, its stuck down 9 mm. This happened after 5 rides since it was repaired by Manitou. Issues before were 2x main piston hitting IFP at 45-50mm travel, now its not extending to full lenght.
> The performance is really great, when its working, but after so many issues I will be glad to purchase some other shock. I'll trade performance for reliability.


Sorry to hear that. Do you know if you got the updated ifp piston?

The new ifp piston fixes the reduced travel. The stuck down I haven't seen on a Mcleod yet. But that's caused by your main seals leaking.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

I got updated IFP piston. But I was unable to to open aircan as I don't have tools to open it right now. When I get home I will open air can to reset it again to see if will equalize back to normal, or not.


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

*Mcleod on a tallboy?*

Hi all,

I have a tallboy (not the LT, the one with 100mm rear travel) running a CTD adjust kashima rear shock.

I am not in love with its performance (especially small bump compliance), and reading all stuff here i wonder if anyone tried the Mcleod on a tallboy, and what the impressions over CTD-K are.

Tallboy runs a low compression/medium rebound tune. i understand the mcleod comes in one flavour (i am not comfortable with opening and messing with shim stack).

any experience on tallboy?
appreciate also if anyone tried (new-ish) monarch's on a tallboy to compare to the mcleod.

Tx,
Oren


----------



## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Today I unscrewed the air canister and measured correct shock lenght of 200mm. I had another McLeod shock laying around waiting to be fixed (main piston hitting IFP) which had 200mm even with air canister, so I opened them both to see what might be different between them. I haven't found single difference in measurement of shock and air can. I didn't understand what might be wrong until I assembled them both (didn't swap anything between them), they both are now 5mm shorter. So its negatice spring that keeps the shock from extending to full lenght.

The one, that was 9mm shorter required my full force to overcome negative spring to slide air can down. 
One that was fully extended required moderate force - negative air pressure was the same as atmospheric on halfway down on piston

To me this seems like design fault. Can somebody please confirm that shock is shorter after resetting negative spring?

*I measured lenght at 200psi in positive chamber

EDIT: Also tried with top-out bumper removed, but none of measurements have changed


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

RoboS said:


> Today I unscrewed the air canister and measured correct shock lenght of 200mm. I had another McLeod shock laying around waiting to be fixed (main piston hitting IFP) which had 200mm even with air canister, so I opened them both to see what might be different between them. I haven't found single difference in measurement of shock and air can. I didn't understand what might be wrong until I assembled them both (didn't swap anything between them), they both are now 5mm shorter. So its negatice spring that keeps the shock from extending to full lenght.
> 
> The one, that was 9mm shorter required my full force to overcome negative spring to slide air can down.
> One that was fully extended required moderate force - negative air pressure was the same as atmospheric on halfway down on piston
> ...


You will lose travel when installing the air can because the negative chamber is inflated and the positive chamber is not. When you add pressure to the positive chamber, you should get the travel back. In my experience, it takes around 100psi in the positive chamber to reach full extension.

I agree that it's a design flaw. It if frustrating putting the can on at times and my McLeods have all lost some negative pressure after the first few miles after can removal. It's very annoying. I'm really hoping they add a self regulating negative chamber in the future but I'm not holding my breath. It's the only thing that holds the shock back imo.


----------



## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> You will lose travel when installing the air can because the negative chamber is inflated and the positive chamber is not. When you add pressure to the positive chamber, you should get the travel back. In my experience, it takes around 100psi in the positive chamber to reach full extension.
> 
> I agree that it's a design flaw. It if frustrating putting the can on at times and my McLeods have all lost some negative pressure after the first few miles after can removal. It's very annoying. I'm really hoping they add a self regulating negative chamber in the future but I'm not holding my breath. It's the only thing that holds the shock back imo.


Mullen, as I wrote, I inflate to 200psi, but the shock does not extend to full lenght


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

RoboS said:


> Mullen, as I wrote, I inflate to 200psi, but the shock does not extend to full lenght


Hmmmm. So it full extends with the can off, but you lose 9mm with the can on, regardless of positive pressure? Does adding positive pressure change anything at all?

That's a really odd problem, if the main piston seals were leaking, the chambers would equalize at whatever position the shock is in while it was filled. But if the leak was bad enough to keep it from extending, it would be fairly easy to pull to full extension. Very odd.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> Hmmmm. So it full extends with the can off, but you lose 9mm with the can on, regardless of positive pressure? Does adding positive pressure change anything at all?
> 
> That's a really odd problem, if the main piston seals were leaking, the chambers would equalize at whatever position the shock is in while it was filled. But if the leak was bad enough to keep it from extending, it would be fairly easy to pull to full extension. Very odd.


That 9mm was when negative air chamber pressure was completely off. After resetting, its "only" 5mm shorter.
There is very slight difference between 100 and 200psi, its about 1mm ([email protected] and [email protected])


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

That stinks of an oring in the negative chamber. Volume is precious in there n any change will have that effect.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

scar4me said:


> That stinks of an oring in the negative chamber. Volume is precious in there n any change will have that effect.


I don't expect some that some seal is leaking, one of these shocks has less than 5 hours riding, the other maybe 30 hours.
Except that, when I remove air canister after reset, negative chamber has the same pressure as when I closed it (just by the feel). There is 0 force when air canister is at the end of the shaft, what means that seal is OK.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Sorry, should've been clearer.
Take off the air can, and make sure there isn't an oring in the bottom of it.
I'm saying there is an additional oring that shouldn't be there.
Like the topout orings that a lot of other shocks use.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

scar4me said:


> Sorry, should've been clearer.
> Take off the air can, and make sure there isn't an oring in the bottom of it.
> I'm saying there is an additional oring that shouldn't be there.
> Like the topout orings that a lot of other shocks use.


At the bottom of air canister is only top-out bumper, nothing else. I removed it, but there was no change.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Today I unscrewed the air canister and measured correct shock lenght of 200mm. I had another McLeod shock laying around waiting to be fixed (main piston hitting IFP) which had 200mm even with air canister, so I opened them both to see what might be different between them. I haven't found single difference in measurement of shock and air can. I didn't understand what might be wrong until I assembled them both (didn't swap anything between them), they both are now 5mm shorter. So its negatice spring that keeps the shock from extending to full lenght.
> 
> The one, that was 9mm shorter required my full force to overcome negative spring to slide air can down.
> One that was fully extended required moderate force - negative air pressure was the same as atmospheric on halfway down on piston
> ...


Can you measure the outside length of your air-can?

Is your shock 200x56mm?


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Can you measure the outside length of your air-can?
> 
> Is your shock 200x56mm?


Outside length of air can (removed from shock) is 103mm. Shock is 200x56mm


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Outside length of air can (removed from shock) is 103mm. Shock is 200x56mm


That matches the 200x56mm McLeod I have here that is sitting at the right length. So at this point we know you have the right air-can.

This mystery gets deeper.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> That matches the 200x56mm McLeod I have here that is sitting at the right length. So at this point we know you have the right air-can.
> 
> This mystery gets deeper.


I'm scared already


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> I'm scared already


With the air-can off. How deep inside can you insert a ruler?


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

The aircan of my 200x57 measures 102mm from seal to end if that helps anyone.

I'm still thinking this is a negative volume issue tbh, so maybe the topout oring has been swapped for a bigger one n that's the cause.
Fish it out n confirm its measurements for us, specifically the cross section measurement.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> With the air-can off. How deep inside can you insert a ruler?


Dougal, here is what I measured








EDIT: Updated picture


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

RoboS said:


> Today I unscrewed the air canister and measured correct shock lenght of 200mm. I had another McLeod shock laying around waiting to be fixed (main piston hitting IFP) which had 200mm even with air canister, so I opened them both to see what might be different between them. I haven't found single difference in measurement of shock and air can. I didn't understand what might be wrong until I assembled them both (didn't swap anything between them), they both are now 5mm shorter. So its negatice spring that keeps the shock from extending to full lenght.
> 
> The one, that was 9mm shorter required my full force to overcome negative spring to slide air can down.
> One that was fully extended required moderate force - negative air pressure was the same as atmospheric on halfway down on piston
> ...


I will say yes, the shock is shorter after the negative spring is reset. When I first got my shock, a 7.5 x 2.0 unit, the shaft measured close to 2.25". The shock had top out issues and when I reset the can, the shock went to more of a 2.05" exposed. Now, if I notice my shaft lengthening I know I need to reset my air can (or have sex).


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Vespasianus said:


> Now, if I notice my shaft lengthening I know I need to reset my air can (or have sex).


LOL, I was drinking water while reading this, now my laptop is wet 



Vespasianus said:


> I will say yes, the shock is shorter after the negative spring is reset. When I first got my shock, a 7.5 x 2.0 unit, the shaft measured close to 2.25". The shock had top out issues and when I reset the can, the shock went to more of a 2.05" exposed.


As workaround, isn't it better to measure sag from other side of piston? If I want 25% sag, I can subtract 14mm (25% of travel) from shock travel (56mm) and add about 3mm (unused shaft length) = 45mm from the end of shaft. I can preserve overall geometry, but I'm not sure if I would use entire travel


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

What happens if you add some air, leave the pump attached, cycle the shock a few times, and then add your final air pressure and detach the pump?

Cycling the shock should equalize the positive and negative chambers.


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## BIKEBROS2 (Dec 27, 2009)

Hello,
Today my mc began making a sucking sound....and ipa system does not work well!
What happen?


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

ColinL said:


> What happens if you add some air, leave the pump attached, cycle the shock a few times, and then add your final air pressure and detach the pump?
> 
> Cycling the shock should equalize the positive and negative chambers.


Colin, thats true for other brands of shocks, they have small dimple on air canister to equalize pressure between positive and negative chamber, but Manitou does not rely on this design. Negative pressure is built inside by sliding air canister on the shock and the system rely on fact that seal is perfect (but it is not).


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

BIKEBROS2 said:


> Hello,
> Today my mc began making a sucking sound....and ipa system does not work well!
> What happen?


 Damper sucked in some air and it's time for a rebuild.



RoboS said:


> Colin, thats true for other brands of shocks, they have small dimple on air canister to equalize pressure between positive and negative chamber, but Manitou does not rely on this design. Negative pressure is built inside by sliding air canister on the shock and the system rely on fact that seal is perfect (but it is not).


I'm still at a loss on your situation. If you install it, can you pull up on the seat while holding the rear wheel down and make tge shock extend completely? If you can, it's high pressure in the negative chamber. If it doesn't extend, something is physically preventing it from returning to full extension.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Dougal, here is what I measured
> 
> View attachment 1065086
> 
> EDIT: Updated picture


Those measurements confirm you've got the correct can and there's nothing hiding inside.

So why can't you get full extension? I have the same shock with the same can and the negative spring (with the red top-out bumper) isn't strong enough to prevent full length.

You do have a single red (or maybe black) top-out bumper inside the can?


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal, there is single red top-out bumper about 3mm thick. I also tried it without that bumper, but it was the same.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Dougal, there is single red top-out bumper about 3mm thick. I also tried it without that bumper, but it was the same.


If it's the same with and without the bumper then it's not something actually touching.

Is your shock pump correct? Does this shock extend to full stroke when fitted to your bike and pressurised enough to ride?


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> If it's the same with and without the bumper then it's not something actually touching.
> 
> Is your shock pump correct? Does this shock extend to full stroke when fitted to your bike and pressurised enough to ride?


Yes, my shock pump is OK, I can set normal sag and ride it. But its shorter, it messes with bike geometry and I have less available travel.

Today I got reply from Manitou tech support, they suggest to clean air canister from grease, lightly coat seals with oil and assemble. They think that suspension grease might take some volume of negative chamber. I'll give it a try later today.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Mystery solved (probably). It was the grease in negative chamber to cause this. The was not a lot of it, but it makes difference. After first inflate there was 56mm of shaft visible (53mm usable travel). Then I removed top-out bumper and shock did extend to full 55-56mm travel. It would be helpful if Manitou finally release service manual for McLeod to avoid situations like this. There is significant change in pressure needed to achieve proper sag, before it was 120psi, now 150psi.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Glad you got it sorted.

Didn't think about it being over greased taking up the volume.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah that is definitely something to keep in mind when working on these shocks, do not over grease.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

I've been warned by Manitou technician to put top-out bumper back. He said it can damage IFP. I can't imagine how, but I have put it back.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> I've been warned by Manitou technician to put top-out bumper back. He said it can damage IFP. I can't imagine how, but I have put it back.


I've received some updates from Ed at Manitou.

The top-out bumper in the can is to ensure that top-out is taken externally rather than internally. They don't want the collar that preloads the damper shims inside the shock to take the top-out loads.

These shocks with no air-can installed will extend another almost 2mm. They come back to proper length with the air-can and top-out bumper in place.

Ed also said if anyone has issues with the negative chamber leaking down, then send the shock in for service so they can have a closer look. Sometimes the body will need replaced.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> I've received some updates from Ed at Manitou.
> 
> The top-out bumper in the can is to ensure that top-out is taken externally rather than internally. They don't want the collar that preloads the damper shims inside the shock to take the top-out loads.
> 
> ...


I'm on my 3rd McLeod and non of them would hold negative pressure. I base this on the fact when I would unscrew the air can after a ride, it stays up near the threads of the eyelet and the ride gets harsher as I ride. It still has reasonable small bump so I just gave up.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> I'm on my 3rd McLeod and non of them would hold negative pressure. I base this on the fact when I would unscrew the air can after a ride, it stays up near the threads of the eyelet and the ride gets harsher as I ride. It still has reasonable small bump so I just gave up.


That is odd. Knock on wood, but mine seems to be holding up ok. If there are shocks out there that are working fine and those that are failing repeatedly, I wonder if the shock is incompatible with certain frame designs.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> That is odd. Knock on wood, but mine seems to be holding up ok. If there are shocks out there that are working fine and those that are failing repeatedly, I wonder if the shock is incompatible with certain frame designs.


3 shocks on 3 different frames( Santa Cruz Bantam, transition bandit, giant lust) all have the same issue. It holds for maybe a ride. I have tried everything I can think of.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Thats not good. With every new post in this thread I'm afraid more and more to take McLeod to Alps for 2 week bike vacation.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Been running mine since Feb last year with ZERO issues but then again I have not tinkered with it other than adjusting air pressure. Wondering if service and change of the air can is something that Manitou should ultimately be handling due to some unrecognized variable?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I have been riding my McLeod for almost a year now. Maybe 1,000 miles, 0 issues. Very happy.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

I personally don't find it to be a huge deal. It still performs very well with the low negative pressure. It does perform much better after a reset, but it's still more than adequate if I drop the main chamber pressure a few psi. I pretty much just stopped messing with it.


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## Jeroentune (May 30, 2013)

*Cube Fully*

Hello all ..

My name is Jeroen from the Netherlands and i currently playing with a Cube 29er Hard tail. 
I am in a project of building a fully and re-use some of my parts of the hard-tail to complete my fully bike .

this is the frame i bought :

Adrenalin ?: Cube AMS 120 HPA 29 2014 - Modell 2014

normaly Cube use a manitou ore Fox rear shock in this bike :

Fox Float CTD Performance Boost Valve 200-51mm Rear Shock | Air Shocks Shop

the specs of this shock :

Custom Tune ID: CML6
Bike Help Center | FOX
2014 Performance Series FLOAT
2014, FLOAT-A P-S, CTD BV SV, Cube, AMS 120 Race, 7.875, 2.000, VTM, RTL, 175, 16

Now my question :

I would like to use the MCleod shock for my frame but i want to make sure that the tune is about the same .. since you have more experience .. i wonder if you guys can give me any advice ..

Best regards.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Short question as well:

Is there one king can for each eye-to-eye shock length or is their a separate one for each travel as well?

I see some stores list 32036032 as 200x56mm and some just as 200mm. So I'm not hundred percent sure it fits the 200x50mm McLeod I intend on buying.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

CS645 said:


> Short question as well:
> 
> Is there one king can for each eye-to-eye shock length or is their a separate one for each travel as well?
> 
> I see some stores list 32036032 as 200x56mm and some just as 200mm. So I'm not hundred percent sure it fits the 200x50mm McLeod I intend on buying.


Yes, all king can's are shock i2i specific.

The 200x50 shock is the same as the 200x57, just with a 7mm spacer on the inside shaft restricting the stroke.
So you just want the 200mm Kingcan 

I'm close to pulling the trigger on one myself, but going to ride it a bit more, as don't think it'll make too much difference for my frame.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

scar4me said:


> Yes, all king can's are shock i2i specific.
> 
> The 200x50 shock is the same as the 200x57, just with a 7mm spacer on the inside shaft restricting the stroke.
> So you just want the 200mm Kingcan
> ...


Thanks for the confirmation. I expected as much, but just wanted to be sure.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Just seen manitou have released (last month) a McLeod Air-Can service guide now....

https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/McLeod-Air-Can-Piston-Service-Guide.pdf

Was always intrigued on how they got the non-split glide ring on the piston head


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

scar4me said:


> Just seen manitou have released (last month) a McLeod Air-Can service guide now....
> 
> https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/McLeod-Air-Can-Piston-Service-Guide.pdf
> 
> Was always intrigued on how they got the non-split glide ring on the piston head


That's awesome... I have not serviced my McLeod in over a year now with lots of hard riding. Going to check it out and see if it is something that needs to be serviced. Since the bike is down right now waiting on a new fork I might as well service the entire thing. Gonna go through and check all the bearings and what not.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Renegade said:


> My Mcleod story. I purchased a new 7.5 by 2 inch [190 by 50] Mcleod from Chain reaction cycles. I sent it back to Manitou twice; first time to repair what I believed was a leaking negative air chamber issue, and second time because the shock was topping out hard at full extension. No amount of rebound adjustment would prevent the hard top out. The top out was occurring in the damping chamber, not the air chamber. I took measurements that proved to me that the air piston was .25 inches away from ever coming into contact with the bottom of the air can.
> The Manitou technician was very helpful, but I felt that he either wasn't listening very well to what I was trying to explain to him, or I am simply not a good communicator. I was starting to get frustrated. He stumbled onto the source of my problem somewhat accidentally. He was getting a little desperate for solutions, so he thought he would try out a King Can on the shock to see if it made a difference. He grabbed a King can for a 7.5 by 2 shock, set that can on it's end right next to my stock can, and he noticed a difference.
> 
> The two cans were two different lengths.
> ...


I received my McLeod (200x50mm) yesterday together with a king can (200x56mm).

I installed the king can (on intermediate volume) right away and put the shock on my Trance 27.5.

I have the same harsh top out as described above. What can be the cause. Can I have done something wrong and how can I fix it? I'm going for a ride tomorrow, can I harm the shock when riding it with this harsh top out?

EDIT: I read I have to reset the negative chamber. Gonna check how to do that. Not sure if I can leave the shock on the bike to do so.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

CS645 said:


> I received my McLeod (200x50mm) yesterday together with a king can (200x56mm).
> 
> I installed the king can (on intermediate volume) right away and put the shock on my Trance 27.5.
> 
> ...


Did you transfer the red topout bumper into the new king can?
The increase in negative volume without the red bumper would cause the chamber to be too soft at full extension and cause a harsh knocking topout.

Just putting the aircan on resets the negative chamber, so that should be fine.


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Alright I ended up sending a private message to SmithTech (Zac Smith) of Manitou about the harsh top out through Instagram. I will post up what he responds with or hopefully he will jump on the thread here.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

scar4me said:


> Did you transfer the red topout bumper into the new king can?
> The increase in negative volume without the red bumper would cause the chamber to be too soft at full extension and cause a harsh knocking topout.
> 
> Just putting the aircan on resets the negative chamber, so that should be fine.


Yes, I moved the red bumper over. I'll reattach the aircan (following the procedure) and see how it works. Think should be fine to leave it on the bike. Thanks.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Damn that was quick...
His Response:
"Well unless the damper has been cavitated (Pressure bypassing the IFP), the air can negative chamber seal might need to be replaced. It doesn't happen often but occasionally a fresh install will lose negative chamber pressure rapidly. I replace the quad seal in there and boom, it's good. Also possible it is just contaminated, so cleaning and re-installation can help."

So sounds like being super careful with cleanliness while installing is key and then possibly just a full seal replacement if doing work/swap.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

gregnash said:


> Damn that was quick...
> His Response:
> "Well unless the damper has been cavitated (Pressure bypassing the IFP), the air can negative chamber seal might need to be replaced. It doesn't happen often but occasionally a fresh install will lose negative chamber pressure rapidly. I replace the quad seal in there and boom, it's good. Also possible it is just contaminated, so cleaning and re-installation can help."
> 
> So sounds like being super careful with cleanliness while installing is key and then possibly just a full seal replacement if doing work/swap.


Ok thanks.

Quick update.

I dropped the aircan as far as the frame allowed and then reattached the can and filled it to 150psi. Then no harsh top out. Since it was about 32% sag I increased it to 160PSI and now some slight harshness returned.


----------



## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

CS645 said:


> Ok thanks.
> 
> Quick update.
> 
> I dropped the aircan as far as the frame allowed and then reattached the can and filled it to 150psi. Then no harsh top out. Since it was about 32% sag I increased it to 160PSI and now some slight harshness returned.


May I suggest that you remove the shock from the frame, so that you can completely remove the air can from the shock, then re-install it, to assure yourself the fullest negative volume possible. Grease the air piston too if it appears dry.

The two air cans that you have; are they identical in length?


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Renegade said:


> May I suggest that you remove the shock from the frame, so that you can completely remove the air can from the shock, then re-install it, to assure yourself the fullest negative volume possible. Grease the air piston too if it appears dry.
> 
> The two air cans that you have; are they identical in length?


Ok, will have too remove the air can from the frame some other time. Piston looked somewhat greased so added a little M-prep for good measure (not too much).

The old air can is about 5mm shorter than the king can. I understood the 200x56 king can (Item no. 32036032) is suitable all 200mm eye2eye shock lengths.

Shock and king can bought new BTW.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

CS645 said:


> Ok, will have too remove the air can from the frame some other time. Piston looked somewhat greased so added a little M-prep for good measure (not too much).
> 
> The old air can is about 5mm shorter than the king can. I understood the 200x56 king can (Item no. 32036032) is suitable all 200mm eye2eye shock lengths.
> 
> Shock and king can bought new BTW.


Is your shock a 200 by 50?


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Renegade said:


> Is your shock a 200 by 50?


Yes.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

I don't understand how one can works for both shock strokes.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

CS645 said:


> Ok, will have too remove the air can from the frame some other time. Piston looked somewhat greased so added a little M-prep for good measure (not too much).
> 
> The old air can is about 5mm shorter than the king can. I understood the 200x56 king can (Item no. 32036032) is suitable all 200mm eye2eye shock lengths.
> 
> Shock and king can bought new BTW.


use minimal amount of grease, otherwise you end with problems like I had - shock did not return to full extension because grease reduced negative air chamber volume


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Post incorrect. 
See dougal's post further down.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

RoboS said:


> use minimal amount of grease, otherwise you end with problems like I had - shock did not return to full extension because grease reduced negative air chamber volume


Yes, after reading that I just added a lit bit because more wet than greased when I opened it up.

Had my first ride today. At 160PSI the hard top-out was hardly noticeable, but had to increase it to 180PSI and then it was a bit more obvious.

Have to say though that even with that slight issue it works much better than the budget Float CTD the bike came with. Much more supportive when standing pedalling and more sensitive to small bump even so new. So quite happy with the first impression.

Have to ride it some more to get a better impression.

Will have a look if I can reattach the aircan to reset the negative chamber the next few days.


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So from reading the service guide and talking with Zac it seems that the shock is very sensitive to working in a clean environment and not over-greasing the internals. I will probably end up getting a seal rebuild kit and doing a rebuild on it later this year. After talking to Zac and letting him know my suspension type, terrain, weight and riding style he said I would see little benefit from jumping to the king can. Should I put on another 20ish lbs though then I would be moving into the King Can territory with the Horst Link suspension.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Renegade said:


> I don't understand how one can works for both shock strokes.


It doesn't.

Overall air-can length for a 200x56mm can is ~103mm. For a 200x50 it is ~97mm.

*The 200x50mm shock should use the 190x50mm King Can.* Using the 56mm can will give you top-out issues which is not good for the damper or the ride.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

Can anyone tell what's the difference (if any) between different model years?

I've just received the shock and I'm not sure which model year is that.








The box says that the manufacture date is 2016/2/17.

This page says it's 2015 model year:
http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/manitou-mcleod-damper-front-shock-black-431819

But Manitou website shows a bit different design:
https://www.manitoumtb.com/products/shocks/mcleod/

I ordered it from
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Manitou/McLeod-Pro-Daempfer-p41541/
assuming I'll get exactly the same as pictured.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Dougal said:


> It doesn't.
> 
> Overall air-can length for a 200x56mm can is ~103mm. For a 200x50 it is ~97mm.
> 
> *The 200x50mm shock should use the 190x50mm King Can.* Using the 56mm can will give you top-out issues which is not good for the damper or the ride.


Okay thanks. I'll get in touch with the company I bought it from to get the 190x50mm version.

PS. Manitou should really add this information somewhere on their website. If you wanna sell stuff, never make it harder then necessary for customers to buy your products.

EDIT: reinstalled the original can and reinstalled the shock on the bike. At least I can ride while waiting for the correct size without fear of damaging the shock.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

ya29er said:


> Can anyone tell what's the difference (if any) between different model years?
> 
> I've just received the shock and I'm not sure which model year is that.
> View attachment 1072652
> ...


I bought mine from Bike Components as well. Mine looks the same as yours buts says 2015 on the box. I don't think there has been any changes to the shock, yours is just a newer build. Install and enjoy!


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

shiny said:


> I bought mine from Bike Components as well. Mine looks the same as yours buts says 2015 on the box. I don't think there has been any changes to the shock, yours is just a newer build. Install and enjoy!


Only minor changes between production runs. New ifp pistons and slightly updated tunes.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Only minor changes between production runs. New ifp pistons and slightly updated tunes.


Some have solid M stickers, some are outline M. This appears completely random.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Quick question to the floor...... (more likely a dougal one  )

I've got a 2nd McLeod 200x57 to dun on my Scott Genius, after running one (216x63) on my Eaze dude frame for a while and being a solid McLeod supporter.
I've already done the aircan reset and checked all of the aircan seals are correctly lubed up, but I'm getting what can only be described as knotchy feeling during any initial movement.
E.g. When the shock is moving it is smooth, but once it stops it then feels like it's got something binding slightly to then release in either rebound or compression.
All the adjusters work fine and do what they are supposed to.

So...... my question.....
Whats could cause this?
Do new shocks have a known "bedding in" time, because my other one didn't  .

I've now even resorted to shortening my existing McLeod (by reducing the negative chamber), and fitting it to my bike to check I'm not loosing my marbles.
With my old shock on the suspension is uber smooth and no stiction.
So this is definitely not the linkage/frame.

My next step will by to cycle it without the aircan, to see if it's damper seal related, and ruleout the aircan completely.

Has anyone else had any stiction issues?


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## Jeroentune (May 30, 2013)

*dampfer*

I just got mine in as well . i received the 2015 model but that is ok with me .. i bought it from bike 24.de .. even cheaper than bike-components.de . I am in the middel of the bike building procces so it will take a while before i can test it .

Mountainbike.nl ? Toon onderwerp - Cube fully bouw project

















Jeroen


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

Jeroentune said:


> i bought it from bike 24.de .. even cheaper than bike-components.de .


Most large online EU shops have a 'price match' request system or similar.

* bike-components.de have this system in almost automatic way and accept all EU shops.
* bike24.de only GE shops
* bike-discount.de simply don't reposnd at all

So I sent the bike24.de link with price of 174€ to bike-components.de and got it for that price. Also I did similar for a tire which was cheaper in a UK shop.

bike-components seems to be more friendly then others and always reply in time. 80% of time I order from them.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

shiny said:


> I bought mine from Bike Components as well. Mine looks the same as yours buts says 2015 on the box. I don't think there has been any changes to the shock, yours is just a newer build. Install and enjoy!


Sorry I've made a mistake. The first link should be:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Manitou/McLeod-Pro-Daempfer-p41541/


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

The model with outline letters stickers has something for a remote:








The model with solid letters letters does not:









So there should be a difference I assume.
I want to add a remote some time later.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

ya29er said:


> The model with outline letters stickers has something for a remote:
> View attachment 1073449
> 
> 
> ...


The stickers are irrelevant to wether it comes with the remote it.
The remote kit is an aftermarket purchase for all mcleod shocks.
The bit you circled above bolts onto the shock in the bolt holes you can see in the second pic. 
This along with a return spring that sites underneath the IPA adjuster, and a bar mounted lever is the remote kit.

Both my Mcleods came with the outline stickers, and neither came with the remote kit attached.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

scar4me said:


> Quick question to the floor...... (more likely a dougal one  )
> 
> I've got a 2nd McLeod 200x57 to dun on my Scott Genius, after running one (216x63) on my Eaze dude frame for a while and being a solid McLeod supporter.
> I've already done the aircan reset and checked all of the aircan seals are correctly lubed up, but I'm getting what can only be described as knotchy feeling during any initial movement.
> ...


Sounds like one of the quad seals is twisted when installed so it is somewhat twisting more when you cycle the shock (likely twisting the proper direction during cycling so it cycle smoothly). I would check all your seals again to make sure that nothing got twisted or turned at the last moment. That is what I would see as the binding you are talking about. Other would be to check the shock and ensure there is no play anywhere and see that everything is lining up properly.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

ya29er said:


> Most large online EU shops have a 'price match' request system or similar.
> 
> * bike-components.de have this system in almost automatic way and accept all EU shops.
> * bike24.de only GE shops
> ...


Damn, mine is already on the way from bike-discount and I when I ordered it I didn't know bike24 was cheaper, although their 200x57 delivery time is "unknown" so who knows if bike-discount would have price-matched anyway.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

scar4me said:


> Quick question to the floor...... (more likely a dougal one  )
> 
> I've got a 2nd McLeod 200x57 to dun on my Scott Genius, after running one (216x63) on my Eaze dude frame for a while and being a solid McLeod supporter.
> I've already done the aircan reset and checked all of the aircan seals are correctly lubed up, but I'm getting what can only be described as knotchy feeling during any initial movement.
> ...


Does the "knock" go away when you add a few clicks of compression via IPA?


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Manitou now has a video up on servicing the McLeod:


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Does the "knock" go away when you add a few clicks of compression via IPA?


It's not a knock, just a slightly sticky feeling before it then moves freely.
This is for any movement from rest, rebound or compression, so wouldn't appear IPA related\linked at all. And happens the same irrespective of IPA\rebound settings.
E.g. mid-stroke when @ resting sag, when fully extended.

Took the aircan off this morning, and the shock damper cycling does feel smooth without the sticky feeling I was getting.
The quadrings all appear to be seated correctly with no twists.
The main piston quadring did look like it protruded slightly more out from the glide rings than I'd expect, but it's only ~1mm ish so probably me just being OCD.
I even put the aircan on the shock shaft backwards to see if the aircan sealhead was smooth and not sticky on the shaft, and it was fine.

Last option is to take both McLeods apart tonight and compare the main piston quad seals.
Might be that the quad seal was rotated 90deg from it's natural resting position when being put onto the pistonhead.
That shouldn't make a difference as the quad seal should be evenly cross-sectioned, but could be making it try and seal slightly tighter on one edge adding resistance.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The McLeod has stiction issues for break in. I think Manitou mentions this in the manual. 10 to 15 hours and it goes away. I never noticed any with mine initially, but it is talked about in this thread also.


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## Rat66 (May 6, 2016)

Hi Guys
Just fitting this shock to my Bike It’s an old Uzzi SLX and need some advice.
I am trying to use the old mounting hardware as it’s as new.
The bottom long shaft is very tight in the shocks bottom bushing. I can push it in by hand by pressing it down on a table but I cannot rotate it by hand when it’s in the shock is this ok ?
Should I bore the bushing out a little so it can rotate freely ?
The shock that was on my bike I can rotate it by hand and push it in easy with out using the table.
I purchased the top spacing shaft with the shock and that is also very tight so was thinking it maybe OK but it is very tight.

Thanks for any help.

Will


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Rat66 said:


> Hi Guys
> Just fitting this shock to my Bike It's an old Uzzi SLX and need some advice.
> I am trying to use the old mounting hardware as it's as new.
> The bottom long shaft is very tight in the shocks bottom bushing. I can push it in by hand by pressing it down on a table but I cannot rotate it by hand when it's in the shock is this ok ?
> ...


Generally metal DU bushings are meant to be that tight.
(need to press in with a vice etc).
If a mount kit can be pushed in by hand to a metal bushing then it's generally seen as worn out.

The newer 5piece fox bushings and IGUS DU bushings are slightly looser and lower friction, so can normally be fitted without a vice.

P.s. the more rotation a bushing has to deal with the bigger impact the tight bushing will have on the feel of the suspension. 
E.g. I'd recommend fitting a lower friction bushing on the end that is on the linkage on your Uzzi to get the most benefit, and best ride feel.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

My suggestion would be to go with the FOX DU Bushings as they fit quite well and offer a good amount of rotation. Ever since I played paintball I have found that for these types of rotating parts, Delrin or DU style items are quite good and very low friction. I was able to swap over the DU Bushings from the Fox shock that I originally had on my bike to the McLeod and have not had ANY issues with them.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rat66 said:


> Hi Guys
> Just fitting this shock to my Bike It's an old Uzzi SLX and need some advice.
> I am trying to use the old mounting hardware as it's as new.
> The bottom long shaft is very tight in the shocks bottom bushing. I can push it in by hand by pressing it down on a table but I cannot rotate it by hand when it's in the shock is this ok ?
> ...


It should be snug, but rotate easily when the pin is clamped in the link of your Uzzi.


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## Rat66 (May 6, 2016)

Dougal said:


> It should be snug, but rotate easily when the pin is clamped in the link of your Uzzi.


Thanks for all the help guys got to love the internet.
I will get into it tonight with all this new info.

cheers


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Never mind :band::crazy::ihih:


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Damper fully assembled








Assembled top view. Ports you see are for the high speed rebound








Low speed rebound check valve disassembled








Compression side of piston








Rebound side of piston








LSR check plate configuration








These are the stock compression and rebound stacks








This is the note manitou sent me to try as a new compression stack








Lastly, this is what manitou sent me to try as a new rebound stack

I was unable to reassemble because the bleed screw oring somehow became damaged, so no test rides until I get one from manitou or possibly find one locally. Hopefully before the weekend. I will update when I get a test ride in.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> View attachment 1075099
> 
> Damper fully assembled
> 
> ...


Ans dougal:

Does one of you have an idea if the mcleod or evtl kingcan suits the rear rear of the transition patrol? 
Am a bit confused because Sonne people say the mcleod Is the best shock along vivid and stuff that they have ever tried and eine say, it is worse than a Monarch rt3. Am considering the dvo topaz alternatively. As I can get a very good deal for it.
Cheers


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Wow mullen, that's a lot of fresh mcleod damper info! It does leave some questions though:
1) Why did you need a new stack tune?
2) What does the adjuster change?
3) Why are there shims with ID's of 8mm and 10mm in a single stack?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

two-one said:


> Wow mullen, that's a lot of fresh mcleod damper info! It does leave some questions though:
> 1) Why did you need a new stack tune?
> 2) What does the adjuster change?
> 3) Why are there shims with ID's of 8mm and 10mm in a single stack?


The way it works is the shaft has a step in it. 8mm than steps to 10mm. The 8 mm shims can be used as velocity shims or used to tune the amount of preload the the 10mm shim have at max ipa. When you adjust the ipa, the black triangular piece moves to put pressure on the center of the stacks to add or remove preload to the stack. The ipa lever adds up to .4mm of preload.

As for why I'm messing with it, it two fold. I have never really been able to find a great rebound setting. It been good, but still kicks a little when deep in its stroke and I want to fix that. Other reason is because I'm a tinkerer and I just like messing with stuff.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> The way it works is the shaft has a step in it. 8mm than steps to 10mm. The 8 mm shims can be used as velocity shims or used to tune the amount of preload the the 10mm shim have at max ipa. When you adjust the ipa, the black triangular piece moves to put pressure on the center of the stacks to add or remove preload to the stack. The ipa lever adds up to .4mm of preload.
> 
> As for why I'm messing with it, it two fold. I have never really been able to find a great rebound setting. It been good, but still kicks a little when deep in its stroke and I want to fix that. Other reason is because I'm a tinkerer and I just like messing with stuff.


Ahhh, so it's a 10mm sleeve! Ingenious 
And the original 12x0.2 with 8mm ID was a preload reducer.
What frame do you ride? What is the leverage ratio?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

two-one said:


> Ahhh, so it's a 10mm sleeve! Ingenious
> And the original 12x0.2 with 8mm ID was a preload reducer.
> What frame do you ride? What is the leverage ratio?


I'll take better pictures next time I have it apart. I was too focused on documenting tune info I forgot to take pictures of the shaft and compression assembly.

I have a transition bandit 27.5. regressive 2.1 to 2.9 leverage ratio, but most of the regressiveness is in the first 1/3 of travel and it's fairly linear after that.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> I have a transition bandit 27.5. regressive 2.1 to 2.9 leverage ratio, but most of the regressiveness is in the first 1/3 of travel and it's fairly linear after that.


Ah, i can see the graph on linkagedesign.blogspot.com.... yeah that would need a stiff rebound stack for the leverageratio of 3:1, but looser on the top of the stroke... the manitou supplied tune seems to make sense to me.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

two-one said:


> Ah, i can see the graph on linkagedesign.blogspot.com.... yeah that would need a stiff rebound stack for the leverageratio of 3:1, but looser on the top of the stroke... the manitou supplied tune seems to make sense to me.


Manitou never looked at the leverage ratio. Talking tunes with the head Engineer, I was talking about 2 stage stacks he said they had been testing a few and he sent me his favorite. Initial impression is it's a little soft and I have to run almost full closed on the adjuster. That's riding around my house though so a little trail time is needed. Might end up switching to a wider gap shim. Compression tune feels very good in the parking lot test.


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## Jeroentune (May 30, 2013)

*here is my new ride !*

Well here it is , all fresh built up with custom colors . I picked all the parts bij my self and created this bike like it is in the pics.

Considering the McLeod , it was on 90 PSI out of the box .. i started out with 120 and find that a little soft . in lockout it was still moving a bit and my sag was about 30 % .I went up to 150PSI and now my peddle movement is perfect , may be 1 ore 2 mm but thats it .. with a drop ore jump it will nog go further than 25% . i like it this way .. in full open it is like driving a french limo car .. very plush .. nice ! i will post my findings here as well.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> Ans dougal:
> 
> Does one of you have an idea if the mcleod or evtl kingcan suits the rear rear of the transition patrol?
> Am a bit confused because Sonne people say the mcleod Is the best shock along vivid and stuff that they have ever tried and eine say, it is worse than a Monarch rt3. Am considering the dvo topaz alternatively. As I can get a very good deal for it.
> Cheers


The patrol has a rise in its leverage curve. Its not overly progressive, but it's progressive enough that a think a king can might be beneficial to you.

As for what shock is best, I have spent years tuning monarchs for my bikes with good results. They are very good shocks and very tunable. That said, I ended up switching to a McLeod last year as it's stock tune has a similar feel to a custom tuned monarch. I like the damper design of the mcleod a little better as well. No crossover between adjusters because no lsc poppet like most shock designs is a big deal imo.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> The way it works is the shaft has a step in it. 8mm than steps to 10mm. The 8 mm shims can be used as velocity shims or used to tune the amount of preload the the 10mm shim have at max ipa. When you adjust the ipa, the black triangular piece moves to put pressure on the center of the stacks to add or remove preload to the stack. The ipa lever adds up to .4mm of preload.
> 
> As for why I'm messing with it, it two fold. I have never really been able to find a great rebound setting. It been good, but still kicks a little when deep in its stroke and I want to fix that. Other reason is because I'm a tinkerer and I just like messing with stuff.


That's a significant reduction in compression damping. Let us know how you like it!

I tried two and three stage stacks many years ago and found that a flatter (digressive) stack suits my riding terrain and style more. I have a lot of short and sharp impacts that I need fast compression for the suspension to suck up.

Bonsaiman, king can depends on your bike, your terrain and how you ride. I like linear and I wanted the high volume can from the first ride I had (when they only had standard cans). I run it at full volume and it works great for me. Other people I know run on mid volume at higher speed trails and they're happy too.

I haven't had anyone try a king can and not like it or want to return it. But my sample size is small.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> That's a significant reduction in compression damping. Let us know how you like it!
> 
> I tried two and three stage stacks many years ago and found that a flatter (digressive) stack suits my riding terrain and style more. I have a lot of short and sharp impacts that I need fast compression for the suspension to suck up.
> 
> ...


Do you think there is a real advantage with thr. Dvo topaz over the mcleod?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Little background before I get into my updated tune review. I spent the last two years tuning my Monarch Rt3 and found a few tunes while doing so that I really liked. I have always had a soft spot for Manitou forks but never really had much luck with their shocks other than a revox. Bought a McLeod about a year ago and had issues with it and needed to send it in for a rebuild right away. Performance after that was good, but didn't blow me away since I was coming from a tuned monarch. Not much of a reason to stick with it other than I was blown away by the mattoc fork coming from a Pike and part of me wanted to match front and rear brands. That and Manitou customer service is unbelievable. The McLeod was good enough in stock form that I could make the switch and be reasonably happy and I planned on messing with the tunes once I had time.

Fast forward to yesterday when I got to test my first retune attempt. I didn't originally expect to get help from Manitou, I thought it would take time to get in the ball park. This thing is now hands down the best shock I have ever ridden. The new rebound tune is spot on, tracking the ground and keeping the tire glued to the ground like I have never felt before. No bucking on big hits, no packing up, just butter. Compression is almost nailed as well. Anything under 1" just disappears from under my wheel. I can't tell the difference between small rocks and roots and riding on a sidewalk. Midsize stuff just gets gobbled up as well and actual feels similar to what is used to feel like on smaller stuff. Square edge, no issue, just blows off with very little feel transferred to me. The only issue at all is g outs and drops to flat use a little more travel than previously and I'm bottoming a little too much. Soft bottoming though, no hard thuds. I didn't do anything to adjust the spring other than add 5 psi at the hallway point of my ride. Before I add a little more compression damping via tune, Im going to spend a little time tuning the spring. I ran in full open mode the whole ride as well so adding a click of IPA will probably help as well. I was just enjoying myself to much to think of it while riding. I'm hoping to fix this little issue without adjusting tune because of how good it is on everything else.

So long story short. If you have the mechanical ability to fully rebuild a shock, buy a 3n1 ifp tool from Manitou and start tuning this thing. It will blow you away, it really is that good.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Hmm..... definitely wanna get the ifp tool now 
Have had a year on my McLeod so far n it's been very nice, so willing to give a custom tune a go.
Have all the shims I could possibly need in my tuning box already .


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Nice mullen... just sent you a PM.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

scar4me said:


> Hmm..... definitely wanna get the ifp tool now
> Have had a year on my McLeod so far n it's been very nice, so willing to give a custom tune a go.
> Have all the shims I could possibly need in my tuning box already .


It's an expensive tool, but we'll worth it. Much better design than the monarch ifp tool. At some point I will make a McLeod tuning thread, but I have a lot of info I need to sort through to make it a good guide. There are other things in the works for future versions of the mcleod that may make early adopters want to upgrade. Mostly valving stuff, but some of which would require new internal parts. The future is bright, that's for sure.



gregnash said:


> Nice mullen... just sent you a PM.


 :thumbsup:


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Very nice Mullen, I have had some emails back and forth and they are sending me some volume spacers to play with to give the shock a bit more ramp up, they said if that does not work then they can look at some custom tunes.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

shiny said:


> Very nice Mullen, I have had some emails back and forth and they are sending me some volume spacers to play with to give the shock a bit more ramp up, they said if that does not work then they can look at some custom tunes.


I have volume spacers as well. They do make a big difference if you need ramp up, but they pretty much only help support the last 1/4 to at the most 1/3 of travel. What issues are you having?


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

mullen119 said:


> I have volume spacers as well. They do make a big difference if you need ramp up, but they pretty much only help support the last 1/4 to at the most 1/3 of travel. What issues are you having?


Just what I wanted to hear! I have a very linear suspension curve, so the shock uses all of the travel very easily. Just looking to have the last 10mm or so of travel to to ramp up so I have a bit left for big hits. From what Manitou have told me the volume reducers should provide this with the stock can.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

I need the opposite.
I just got a new McLeod installed on my Trance, set it up with ~32% sag (105psi!), I was using 125psi in the Monarch RT it replaced (140psi with Debonair), is anyone else finding this shock uses much lower pressures than others?

After the first ride I used <40/56mm travel, so I need to play with pressures a bit more but may need to buy a King can. It felt fairly smooth but a little "skittery" maybe, could it need a "negative spring reset"? Where is the info on that? (I've looked through this thread but didn't find specifics yet) Is it as simple as removing then re-installing the air can?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

fsrxc said:


> I need the opposite.
> I just got a new McLeod installed on my Trance, set it up with ~32% sag (105psi!), and after the first ride I used <40/56mm travel, so I need to play with pressures a bit more but may need to buy a King can.
> 
> I was using 125psi in the Monarch RT it replaced, is anyone else finding this shock uses much lower pressures than others?


Definitely uses less pressure then the monarch series. My rt3 (debonair ) used 225psi, my mcleod on the same bike uses 165psi.

I wouldn't go much lower than 32% sag. Sounds like the a king can is needed for you.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

When I first got the McLeod I found that it did take a bit less.. Where I was running 120psi+ in the original CTD Float that came with the frame I think I am at like 95psi now on the McLeod as my settled PSI for best riding results.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fsrxc said:


> I need the opposite.
> I just got a new McLeod installed on my Trance, set it up with ~32% sag (105psi!), I was using 125psi in the Monarch RT it replaced (140psi with Debonair), is anyone else finding this shock uses much lower pressures than others?
> 
> After the first ride I used <40/56mm travel, so I need to play with pressures a bit more but may need to buy a King can. It felt fairly smooth but a little "skittery" maybe, could it need a "negative spring reset"? Where is the info on that? (I've looked through this thread but didn't find specifics yet) Is it as simple as removing then re-installing the air can?


Yes you'll want a king can.

With the king can it takes more pressure for the same sag. I went from about 115psi with the single can to about 160psi with the King Can.

Yes a negative reset is as simple as a can remove and reinstall.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Manitou McLeod bleed video just posted for those interested.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_jH07JlGtEETx_hEl_lm5A


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> Manitou McLeod bleed video just posted for those interested.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_jH07JlGtEETx_hEl_lm5A


Very interesting!
I'd have expected a bit more of a specific ifp depth detail than just winging it in the vid... push it all the way in, fill, insert piston, pressure up n let a few drops of oil out the bleed port.
Extremely simple process tho once you've got the 3in1 tool.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

scar4me said:


> Very interesting!
> I'd have expected a bit more of a specific ifp depth detail than just winging it in the vid... push it all the way in, fill, insert piston, pressure up n let a few drops of oil out the bleed port.
> Extremely simple process tho once you've got the 3in1 tool.


Originally when I started working with manitou on this stuff, I expected ifp depths and spacifics as well. I was told that with no compression free bleed, it's too difficult to get the ifp to stay in place when doing a proper bleed. It's much easier and consistent to let the ifp set it's own depth. It really makes sense the more you think about.

One thing to note is that they show only a little oil coming out when they crack the bleed screw (to raise the ifp so it doesnt bottom out at full compression ). In my experience, you need to let a little more oil out than this to raise the ifp slightly more, if you don't the ifp causes a significant ramp up.

Other thing to note is that if you crack the bleed screw with more than 100psi in the ifp chamber, you risk damaging the bleed screw oring. It moves from the oil pressure and gets damaged when you tighten it back up.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Those were my thoughts too, that would give too much end stroke progression in the damper ifp.
Normally I'd expect the bleed n ifp depth to be set from full compression.
E.g. leave bleed screw open with shaft fully compressed and give 1-2 pumps to push ifp whilst flushing excess oil out. 
Then close off and inflate to STD pressure.
Although doing that way probably wouldn't transfer enough force to move the ifp thinking more about it.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Manitou McLeod bleed video just posted for those interested.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_jH07JlGtEETx_hEl_lm5A


That's a great clear video. I'm told it's all done in house. Well done to the tech support guys.

Regarding IFP depth. You have a window of about 2mm on a 200x56mm between it working and either tapping the main piston or building too much pressure. I have another method I use (which Ed the Engineer calls the "cheat method") and also gives great results.

My claim to fame is spilling less than a single cc while rebuilding these. But I've had to make many of my own tools to do that. I vacuum bleed them.

But for those wanting to play at home with pre-setting the IFP. Replace the IFP valve core and cap if you want the IFP to stay put. Then let the shock slowly bleed oil past the piston and relax the IFP position.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> That's a great clear video. I'm told it's all done in house. Well done to the tech support guys.
> 
> Regarding IFP depth. You have a window of about 2mm on a 200x56mm between it working and either tapping the main piston or building too much pressure. I have another method I use (which Ed the Engineer calls the "cheat method") and also gives great results.
> 
> ...


He sent me the "cheat method" as well. I kind of made my own bleed procedure when rebuilding which combines a few thing from a few of the methods. After watching the video, I think I may adjust the way I was doing it. I'm far from being clean or not wasting oil the way I was doing it.

I'm going to send you a PM about something not for the forums dougal. Curious your take on it.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

Renegade said:


> May I suggest that you remove the shock from the frame, so that you can completely remove the air can from the shock, then re-install it, to assure yourself the fullest negative volume possible. Grease the air piston too if it appears dry.
> 
> The two air cans that you have; are they identical in length?


This is what I did - after I removed the air can I found the piston seal was greased but the air can seal/wiper were pretty dry, so I re-greased them (slick honey), re-installed the air can, now it doesn't top out hard like hitting a bumper. My shock's box says "date of manufacture 2015/10/23" so I guess sitting that long with a dry seal there could be leakage to/from the negative chamber.

If it doesn't rain overnight I hope to test it on the trail tomorrow.

I'm waiting to hear back from Manitou support on a King can, since there is no Canadian distributor, according to 2 LBSs I called.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Anyone feel that by moving to the king can the rebound damping has become weaker? I can imagine that with the higher air pressure one has to increase the rebound damping a bit, however with the king can (correct size this time) even rebound damping full closed it seemed inadequate and making the bike unpredictable leaving the ramp.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CS645 said:


> Anyone feel that by moving to the king can the rebound damping has become weaker? I can imagine that with the higher air pressure one has to increase the rebound damping a bit, however with the king can (correct size this time) even rebound damping full closed it seemed inadequate and making the bike unpredictable leaving the ramp.


Opposite here.

Going to the King Can for me means more linear and less energy stored by the spring. Especially deeper in the travel I'm now running rebound backed right out.

How much pressure are you running?


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

fsrxc said:


> This is what I did - after I removed the air can I found the piston seal was greased but the air can seal/wiper were pretty dry, so I re-greased them (slick honey), re-installed the air can, now it doesn't top out hard like hitting a bumper. My shock's box says "date of manufacture 2015/10/23" so I guess sitting that long with a dry seal there could be leakage to/from the negative chamber.
> 
> If it doesn't rain overnight I hope to test it on the trail tomorrow.
> 
> I'm waiting to hear back from Manitou support on a King can, since there is no Canadian distributor, according to 2 LBSs I called.


My opinion is the re-setting of the negative air charge is the major contributor to helping your top out issue. The regreasing is just icing on the cake.
, The king can is sweet. I have two of these shocks, both with the king cans, on two bikes. 7.5x 2 and 8.5 x2.5, and I have a CCBD air with climb switch for these two bikes as well, and I change out shocks regularly. The Manitou does not suck, at all, compared to the "highly sophisticated" cane creek. The cane creek has a bit more adjustment in the low speed circuits, but in the high speed circuits,......it's game on.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Dougal said:


> Opposite here.
> 
> Going to the King Can for me means more linear and less energy stored by the spring. Especially deeper in the travel I'm now running rebound backed right out.
> 
> How much pressure are you running?


195PSI, which is probably a bit much for my 205LBS. Just need to get used to the fact that it gives up the first bit of travel a bit easier. I probably end up around 185PSI, haven't had time to ride more.

Together with the IRT kit in the front the whole bike (Giant trance 27.5) feels very linear now, but also suspension feels a bit like easy in easy out as if it is a bit under dampened both ways. Compression is easy to fix but rebound is at max already.

Probably have to give it a bit more time. I never rode it with the original can, added the king can right away so my original post was phrased a bit inaccurate.


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## Jeroentune (May 30, 2013)

Hello Mc Leods  

Just working on the ideal setup on my new bike with the manitou MC leod shock. 

just a few questions. . I have the feeling that i can click my lever 5 times instead of 4 . is that common ? in the full open position it looks like i can move it a very little furter without any change in the damping. 

in the lock mode i have about 1 mm movement during asphalt rides .. when i stand up and accelerate suddenly very explosive than i found the shock to moce about 5 mm .. is this correct ?

I have a 150 PSI setup and my weight is78 kg . 20% Sag in full open. 

Is this a correct setup ore should i change it ?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Jeroentune said:


> Hello Mc Leods
> 
> Just working on the ideal setup on my new bike with the manitou MC leod shock.
> 
> ...


FIXED....

1. Yes this is very common. Nothing wrong with your shock just the way that the lever moves. Mine is more like 4 and 1/2 not a full 5 clicks
2. Lock out is not a true lockout as you need some suspension blow off. This means that there will be very minimal movement under what they considered standard load and then a bit more when you start mashing the pedals. If you are riding and forget to switch it out of the lockout mode and take a big hit the shock will compress almost like you were in the other settings. This is to help from damaging the shock and is standard blow-off procedure.
3. Really going to depend on your preferences for riding, terrain, how aggressive you are, etc. I run mine at about 25% SAG if I remember correctly and I weigh about 190lbs kitted up (about 88kg)


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The knob is fully adjustable. The horizontal screw in the shaft head sets the fully open position that is normally adjusted to the first stop so you get 4 positions. 

The end stroke is adjusted by shaft head position on the shaft.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Would it Be possible to put this shimstack from the 053 from the post further down on the page into the mcleod? 
Because it would really help to give it more large stroke abilitiy through the midvalve that it would withstand larger hits even better: -(

Tech Specs & Tuning Marzocchi 053 S3C2R | MTB-News.de


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Would it Be possible to put this shimstack from the 053 from the post further down on the page into the mcleod?
> Because it would really help to give it more large stroke abilitiy through the midvalve that it would withstand larger hits even better: -(
> 
> Tech Specs & Tuning Marzocchi 053 S3C2R | MTB-News.de


The Mcleod is a monotube shock. This means all the shims are already midvalve. There is nowhere else to put them.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The Mcleod is a monotube shock. This means all the shims are already midvalve. There is nowhere else to put them.


Oh, a pity. This means the 053 is definitely above the mcleod, right?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Oh, a pity. This means the 053 is definitely above the mcleod, right?


Nope.

There are dozens of ways to build a shock and none of them guarantee a good or bad outcome.


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## Jeroentune (May 30, 2013)

gregnash said:


> FIXED....
> 
> 1. Yes this is very common. Nothing wrong with your shock just the way that the lever moves. Mine is more like 4 and 1/2 not a full 5 clicks
> 2. Lock out is not a true lockout as you need some suspension blow off. This means that there will be very minimal movement under what they considered standard load and then a bit more when you start mashing the pedals. If you are riding and forget to switch it out of the lockout mode and take a big hit the shock will compress almost like you were in the other settings. This is to help from damaging the shock and is standard blow-off procedure.
> 3. Really going to depend on your preferences for riding, terrain, how aggressive you are, etc. I run mine at about 25% SAG if I remember correctly and I weigh about 190lbs kitted up (about 88kg)


Thanks !

I decided to check the SAG once again now i hade 120 miles on the bike and with 150PSI i only had 8 mm Sag and that is a not enough . so i went back to 125 PSI and now i have a decent 13 mm of Sag. the "lockout "mode will give me a me now 2 mm in normal Asphalt use but that is ok with me .. after cleaning and taking good care i can use a little Deo from Brunox on it ?

Best regards.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Little update after spending some time messing with tunes. I have found that the first tune I tried (with the 15x.1mm speed shim) has performed the best overall. Changing the shims to a 16mm or doubleing them leads to a little bit of a harsh feeling. Rebound tune works best with me moving to a little wider gap shim (between first and second stage). This will depend on spring volume and pressure for others who try though. I'm on a small volume air can @ 165 psi and currently find a 11.5mm shim to be butter. 

Also, if you rebuild yours, keep a close eye on the rebound check valve shim. I keep finding mine having a small bend in it that allows for a little back flow through the low speed rebound circuit. I straighten it and install it not bent, but when I pull it apart after a test it has rebent itself. Working with Manitou on it. Doesn't seem to have a big negative effect on it luckily.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> Little update after spending some time messing with tunes. I have found that the first tune I tried (with the 15x.1mm speed shim) has performed the best overall. Changing the shims to a 16mm or doubleing them leads to a little bit of a harsh feeling. Rebound tune works best with me moving to a little wider gap shim (between first and second stage). This will depend on spring volume and pressure for others who try though. I'm on a small volume air can @ 165 psi and currently find a 11.5mm shim to be butter.
> 
> Also, if you rebuild yours, keep a close eye on the rebound check valve shim. I keep finding mine having a small bend in it that allows for a little back flow through the low speed rebound circuit. I straighten it and install it not bent, but when I pull it apart after a test it has rebent itself. Working with Manitou on it. Doesn't seem to have a big negative effect on it luckily.


Have you already tried a 2 stage stack with a Spacer shim between both? So that it can open up after a certain low Speed event übt gets additional support in larger during larger impacts, so that it won t run through all the travel?


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> Little background before I get into my updated tune review. I spent the last two years tuning my Monarch Rt3 and found a few tunes while doing so that I really liked. I have always had a soft spot for Manitou forks but never really had much luck with their shocks other than a revox. Bought a McLeod about a year ago and had issues with it and needed to send it in for a rebuild right away. Performance after that was good, but didn't blow me away since I was coming from a tuned monarch. Not much of a reason to stick with it other than I was blown away by the mattoc fork coming from a Pike and part of me wanted to match front and rear brands. That and Manitou customer service is unbelievable. The McLeod was good enough in stock form that I could make the switch and be reasonably happy and I planned on messing with the tunes once I had time.
> 
> Fast forward to yesterday when I got to test my first retune attempt. I didn't originally expect to get help from Manitou, I thought it would take time to get in the ball park. This thing is now hands down the best shock I have ever ridden. The new rebound tune is spot on, tracking the ground and keeping the tire glued to the ground like I have never felt before. No bucking on big hits, no packing up, just butter. Compression is almost nailed as well. Anything under 1" just disappears from under my wheel. I can't tell the difference between small rocks and roots and riding on a sidewalk. Midsize stuff just gets gobbled up as well and actual feels similar to what is used to feel like on smaller stuff. Square edge, no issue, just blows off with very little feel transferred to me. The only issue at all is g outs and drops to flat use a little more travel than previously and I'm bottoming a little too much. Soft bottoming though, no hard thuds. I didn't do anything to adjust the spring other than add 5 psi at the hallway point of my ride. Before I add a little more compression damping via tune, Im going to spend a little time tuning the spring. I ran in full open mode the whole ride as well so adding a click of IPA will probably help as well. I was just enjoying myself to much to think of it while riding. I'm hoping to fix this little issue without adjusting tune because of how good it is on everything else.
> 
> So long story short. If you have the mechanical ability to fully rebuild a shock, buy a 3n1 ifp tool from Manitou and start tuning this thing. It will blow you away, it really is that good.


Have you already tested your new stack with a little ipa,higherpressire or less volume to adress the bottom out issue in g-outs and on drops? Did Italien solve the Problem and is the ride perfect, now?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> Have you already tried a 2 stage stack with a Spacer shim between both? So that it can open up after a certain low Speed event übt gets additional support in larger during larger impacts, so that it won t run through all the travel?


The original stacks I tried were posted earlier. Both are 2 stage in a sense. The rebound is a true 2 stage but the compression circuit design doesn't allow for a true 2 stage stack because of how it works. There is something I am testing that allows for less breakaway force and therefore better small bump sensitivity that may see its way to production at some point. So if that's what you are looking for you may be in luck.

Anyway, the problem with home made 2 stage stacks is that without a dyno it's just a guessing game when and if the second stage is working. Manitou gave me 2 stage stacks to try and all I have done is a few small tweaks to them to see if I can get them a little better for my bike/riding. I wouldnt recommend trying two stage stacks of your own without at least a copy of restackor.


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## Scott5272 (Apr 8, 2014)

So I noticed today a hard sound from the rear shock. I depressurized the shock and verified that the shock travel is not going full motion. I'm getting maybe 1 inch of travel and hitting a solid stop. Hopefully the video attached. Any idea?





Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Scott5272 said:


> So I noticed today a hard sound from the rear shock. I depressurized the shock and verified that the shock travel is not going full motion. I'm getting maybe 1 inch of travel and hitting a solid stop. Hopefully the video attached. Any idea?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The ifp had creeped up and is now hitting the piston. Email [email protected] and they will get you fixed up.


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## Scott5272 (Apr 8, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> The ifp had creeped up and is now hitting the piston. Email [email protected] and they will get you fixed up.


Got back to me earlier. Mcleod is being sent in for warranty repair and they will be installing the King Can on it too while it's out. Also sent in the Mattoc for the updated parts and fluid change. Stoked!

In regards to IFP, I saw that the gas charge is user serviceable with the 3-in-1 tool. Is there a real difference between nitrogen and compressed air? Both are said to be at 300 psi for either choice of gas charge

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Scott5272 said:


> Got back to me earlier. Mcleod is being sent in for warranty repair and they will be installing the King Can on it too while it's out. Also sent in the Mattoc for the updated parts and fluid change. Stoked!
> 
> In regards to IFP, I saw that the gas charge is user serviceable with the 3-in-1 tool. Is there a real difference between nitrogen and compressed air? Both are said to be at 300 psi for either choice of gas charge
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


The biggest difference between air (78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 1% water vapor) and pure nitrogen is that the oxygen in air causes greater expansion and contraction with temperature changes. This is generally a moot point and has very little effect on shim based shocks. The small amount of water vapor can cause corrosion over long periods of time as well, but this is also a moot point for 2 reasons. 1, it will take a long time before the small amount of water causes any damage, and 2, if you are servicing your own shock you are likely going to clean/rebuild often enough to prevent any damage long before it would be an issue.

I have used air in my ifp chambers for years with no ill effects. Long story short, nitrogen is best, but air is just fine as well.


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## Scott5272 (Apr 8, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> The biggest difference between air (78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 1% water vapor) and pure nitrogen is that the oxygen in air causes greater expansion and contraction with temperature changes. This is generally a moot point and has very little effect on shim based shocks. The small amount of water vapor can cause corrosion over long periods of time as well, but this is also a moot point for 2 reasons. 1, it will take a long time before the small amount of water causes any damage, and 2, if you are servicing your own shock you are likely going to clean/rebuild often enough to prevent any damage long before it would be an issue.
> 
> I have used air in my ifp chambers for years with no ill effects. Long story short, nitrogen is best, but air is just fine as well.


Thanks Mullen. The only thing I could think of was from my paintball days where nitrogen provided a more consistent pressure charge through the barrel.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Scott5272 said:


> Thanks Mullen. The only thing I could think of was from my paintball days where nitrogen provided a more consistent pressure charge through the barrel.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


You are correct... the reason that the nitrogen was more consistent was because of the reasons that mullen explained. From my days there were definitely markers that shot better on nitro then compressed air. Absolutely hated the Shocker 4x4 that I played with shortly when it had compressed air, but when you did a nitro tank on it..... oh dear lord was that thing like butter!!! God I miss playing.


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## Scott5272 (Apr 8, 2014)

gregnash said:


> You are correct... the reason that the nitrogen was more consistent was because of the reasons that mullen explained. From my days there were definitely markers that shot better on nitro then compressed air. Absolutely hated the Shocker 4x4 that I played with shortly when it had compressed air, but when you did a nitro tank on it..... oh dear lord was that thing like butter!!! God I miss playing.


No doubt, I didn't play on a field with nitro available. Only compressed air for me or CO2 which I didn't use. Had a nice Dragon Intimidator.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Dry air isn't an issue, nitrogen is hugely convenient if you're doing production volumes and have it setup and ready to go with tanks and reservoirs.

But on smaller scales it just becomes a liability. With air you don't get staff accidentally inflating themselves and causing the bends!


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Received my volume reducers and found out my adjustable wrench wasn't big enough to undo the can. I tried by hand and was able to undo it. 

Notice in the service video they recommend to tighten until it stops and no further, is hand tight enough or should I buy a bigger wrench to ensure it is snug?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

shiny said:


> Received my volume reducers and found out my adjustable wrench wasn't big enough to undo the can. I tried by hand and was able to undo it.
> 
> Notice in the service video they recommend to tighten until it stops and no further, is hand tight enough or should I buy a bigger wrench to ensure it is snug?


Hand tight is fine. The wrench is more for undoing.

If you have a vice with soft jaws you can use that to gently hold the can and use a wrench to turn the top shaft head to unscrew the can.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Anyone tried a plumbers strap wrench? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

gregnash said:


> Anyone tried a plumbers strap wrench?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I just wrap an old tube round it n twist with that whilst the eyelet end is in a vice. Plenty enough torque to get it undone that way.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Hand tight is fine. The wrench is more for undoing.
> 
> If you have a vice with soft jaws you can use that to gently hold the can and use a wrench to turn the top shaft head to unscrew the can.


Thanks Dougal. Much appreciated. Keen to get out and see how feel the shock feels with the volume reducer.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Scott5272 said:


> No doubt, I didn't play on a field with nitro available. Only compressed air for me or CO2 which I didn't use. Had a nice Dragon Intimidator.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


Yeah most of the fields that I played at were CO2 or Compressed Air only but there was one that did have nitro and my local shop that I helped out at had nitro as well (usually what my payment was for helping rebuild a cocker or work on other markers).


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Did a day of lift served with my McLeod. Brilliant. No issues, just a super stable and smooth platform. Ran fully open. No king can. 200mm x 57mm on my 650b converted Prophet.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gregnash said:


> Anyone tried a plumbers strap wrench?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I use a strap wrench on all my air shocks. Most need it as they don't have a place for a wrench


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> The original stacks I tried were posted earlier. Both are 2 stage in a sense. The rebound is a true 2 stage but the compression circuit design doesn't allow for a true 2 stage stack because of how it works. There is something I am testing that allows for less breakaway force and therefore better small bump sensitivity that may see its way to production at some point. So if that's what you are looking for you may be in luck.
> 
> Anyway, the problem with home made 2 stage stacks is that without a dyno it's just a guessing game when and if the second stage is working. Manitou gave me 2 stage stacks to try and all I have done is a few small tweaks to them to see if I can get them a little better for my bike/riding. I wouldnt recommend trying two stage stacks of your own without at least a copy of restackor.


Can you post the measurements oft the stack you are testing right now, please? 
Thema one you said, will evtl.make its way to production ;-)


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> Can you post the measurements oft the stack you are testing right now, please?
> Thema one you said, will evtl.make its way to production ;-)


It's not the stacks that may change in the future, it's something different that I can't get into.

I'm changing stacks constantly so telling you my current stacks is somewhat pointless because it changes a few times per week. The original stacks I posted are great starting points if people want to try different tunes. Changes in the speed shim on compression and gap shim on rebound can be used to tweak if needed. This is all I am doing to fine tune for my personal bike and preferences.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Hello all,

Does anybody know (or can try), how would Mcleod play with the Fox CTD remote? 

Would the pull be in the proper direction and in ballpark line with min-max of the range? 

Thanks


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Goran_injo said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Does anybody know (or can try), how would Mcleod play with the Fox CTD remote?
> 
> ...


 The Manitou remote is pure Sh!t. I use the Fox remote on both my McLeods and it works perfectly in all ways. It gives the same amount of throw as the Manitou...both of which goes a little past 3 clicks so you get most of the range.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Thank you sir!


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## Jeroentune (May 30, 2013)

Just came back from 2 weeks of biking in France and had so much fun in de France area and was very happy to bring my fully . The Manitou did a great job. like my previous post , i went back to 125 PSI and the shock performed very well. I have no reference if it can be better of not but the Damping is perfect and i wasnt that tired after a long runf than i use to be on a hardtail. 
steep decents with a lot of rocks and loose gritt and a lot of small drops and still so much fun and no pain ore sore body at all .. very happy with a fully and this shock ..

again .. what oil do you guys use to grease the shaft ..

Videos from my rides in france :
















Jeroen


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## Energetik (Feb 7, 2008)

Prophet Julio said:


> Did a day of lift served with my McLeod. Brilliant. No issues, just a super stable and smooth platform. Ran fully open. No king can. 200mm x 57mm on my 650b converted Prophet.


I realize this is a bit of an old post but you say you're running a 200x57mm on a Prophet? Does that have to do with the 650b conversion or did you just long shock it? How much travel does that get you and how does that work out? (stock is 200x50mm)

My Mcleod on my own Prophet is not getting full travel. I might be getting 30mm out of 50mm stroke before I get a hard bottom out. I contacted Manitou and I'm waiting for a reply. I just noticed this yesterday. I assume its an IFP issue and will be a warranty.

Until then I really liked the shock. Even when I noticed this its fine until that point. I'm not riding it that way. I had to do so to get back to my car that was it.

As I understand it a King can wouldn't work as well for a Prophet? Its a regressive 2.5 or 2.6:1 - 3.0:1 falling rate if I'm right. Just curious.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I switched to the long travel before I went 650b. I could still use the FR mode after that switch, but not after I went 650b. If my math is correct, it gives the bike 155mm travel or so. I have not had any travel contact issues in 3,500 miles. Probably don't need all the travel, but I have to say that the McLeod is plush, especially if you are flying down chunky terrain with 2 to 4 foot drops.

I agree that there is no need for a king can. The single pivot does not need mid stroke support or any other king can remedies.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

My Mcleod just arrived from CRC, ordered the manitou bushings to suit 2013 Reign (22.2x6) with it. However the bushings have 1-2mm radial play in them before even fitting the shock. About the same amount of play that happens once the top bushing has worn out. 

Anyone know if this normal or I just received an out of spec set of bushings? 
Will the bushings from the Monach it's replacing fit?


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## whoneedsgears (Sep 8, 2008)

Make sure you bought the correct hardware as CRC carries both the old Manitou hardware and the new hardware. Manitou changed shock eyelet sizes back around 2010/2011. The new hardware says 15mm in the description and the old will say something like 12mm. See links below.

Old hardware - Manitou Shock Bushes-Hardware - 8mm | Chain Reaction Cycles

New hardware - Manitou Shock Bushes-Hardware - 8mm - 15mm | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

My McLeod eyelets were bigger than Monarch eyelets by almost 0.1mm. It was a problem to get tight fit on bushings. And polymer bushings were worse than DU

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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

http://enduroforkseals.com/id275.html

Try these. They are awesome, and have three sizes of axle sent (-, + and ++) which should accommodate for the bore size.

I am using these bearings on my tallboy, it improved small bump compliance by a lot (I had to bump 10 psi in the shock after installing it...)

Oren

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

OrenPerets said:


> RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS, 6MM & 8MM
> 
> Try these. They are awesome, and have three sizes of axle sent (-, + and ++) which should accommodate for the bore size.
> 
> ...


I had them on previous bike, they worked fantastic. But my new bike has 22.2x10mm and 22.2x8mm shock hardware, needle bearings are not available in these sizes. I tried also Offset Bushings hardware, but there was allways very loose fit. My Monarch Plus works perfectly with every kind of mounting hardware that did not work with McLeod, that was one of the reasons why I got rid of both McLeods.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Your old hardware should work until you get the right hardware.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

RoboS said:


> I had them on previous bike, they worked fantastic. But my new bike has 22.2x10mm and 22.2x8mm shock hardware, needle bearings are not available in these sizes. I tried also Offset Bushings hardware, but there was allways very loose fit. My Monarch Plus works perfectly with every kind of mounting hardware that did not work with McLeod, that was one of the reasons why I got rid of both McLeods.


I've always removed the supplied DU bushings, and had no issues using both standard polymer IGUS busings (and 3pc hardware), and the Fox 5 piece low friction bushings.

The new manitou's including McLeod are 1/2" bushing eyelet mounts the same as Fox\Rockshox etc, so fully interchangable. 
(They used to be 12mm on earlier year manitou shocks.)
Offset hardware "looseness" is more down to the tolerance on the hardware than the actual bushing. 
I found some offset mount hardware way out of tolerance from new (with the brand new IGUS bush), so much so I sent it back as faulty and got it replaced. 
But I ordered a pair and the other was ok, so it can deffinately be hit n miss.
Link to bike with McLeod and dual offset hardware


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

If you look wwaaaaaayyyy back in the beginning of the thread you will see that I was able to take the IGUS bushings from the previous FOX CTD, remove the bushings from the McLeod and reuse the FOX. Everything has been working beautifully since then.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Original DU bushings had tighter fit, than Igus, which were too loose. 
I used RockShox harware and OffsetBushings hardware, both were too loose in Igus and about just right in DU.

When I swapped to Monarch Plus, every shock hardware worked perfectly with every type of bushing.

I feel like McLeod eyelets are drilled a bit bigger than other shocks.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> I feel like McLeod eyelets are drilled a bit bigger than other shocks.


Not only does every brand shock have different tolerances in the eyelet drilling. But many brands have different size holes on each end of the same shock!

Nominal size is 19/32" (15.08mm) but actual size can be anywhere between 15.00 and 15.20mm. It really is a horror-show and you have a 0.02mm window between too tight and too loose. My McLeods are the only shock I've measured that took exactly the same pin diameter on both ends.

Which is why guys like me who custom make and fit hardware have steady business. But you've got to have the shock in hand to guarantee fitment.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

You can easily custom fit the Fox five piece bushings:

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/how-make-fox-bushings-better-974832.html

They were really really tight initially. I carefully sanded the outside of the plastic sleeves, testing often until the pin was rotating freely, but without any play.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

I have had some issues with the hardware in my mcleod being slightly loose and creating a small knock. Tried multiple types of hardware and bushings to eventually find a decent fit. Having had 3 mcleods, only one had this issue


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Turns out I ordered the 12mm bushings. The RS bushing from the monarch ended up fitting nice and snug with no play.I'll replace with the roller bearing once it wears out.



















Interesting thing is: I've never got more than 12 months out of the DU bushing on my anthem x, but got over 3 years out of the DU bushing on the Reign.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Interesting sticker set on your McLeod there.....
Not seen that type on any so far.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Was gonna say the same thing as @scar4me. Mine is an OG so has the old sticker set, interesting the new one has the "idiot guide" on it. But then again mine normally lives in second click "aggressive climb" when climbing or flow and then when pointing downhill more than 70% it goes into full open. 


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm having hard time sourcing a McLeod 200x50mm over in Europe. At least for anywhere near the price I bought my first one.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CS645 said:


> I'm having hard time sourcing a McLeod 200x50mm over in Europe. At least for anywhere near the price I bought my first one.


It's not as common as 200x56mm. Do you have frame clearance to allow a 200x56mm to fully compress?

If not, then get a 200x56mm and get a bottom out spacer fitted.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

CS645 said:


> I'm having hard time sourcing a McLeod 200x50mm over in Europe. At least for anywhere near the price I bought my first one.


How about here?
Oh, now I see; they are for sale, but deliverytime is unknown...


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Well, I have the IFP issue. Working out the best way to fix and minimise downtime as I sold my old shock. 

Manitou directed towards the Aussie distro, have emailed them and Dougal and waiting to hear back. 

Other option is to re-bleed myself but need the 3-1 tool which is pricey. 

Asked Manitou about an updated IFP piston but they didn't reply to that section of my email. 

For those that have had the issue was there any mention of an updated piston? Did it stop the issue re-occurring?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

shiny said:


> Well, I have the IFP issue. Working out the best way to fix and minimise downtime as I sold my old shock.
> 
> Manitou directed towards the Aussie distro, have emailed them and Dougal and waiting to hear back.
> 
> ...


There is an updated ifp and seal. Old piston is silver, new piston is red. No reports of the new ifp's having issues.

I suggest letting dougal do it or buy the ifp tool and do it yourself. It's pricey, but let's you solve your own issues and change tunes.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Updated IFP piston worked well last 9 months, the old one failed after 1 week, so definitely the problem is gone with the new one.

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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Dougal said:


> It's not as common as 200x56mm. Do you have frame clearance to allow a 200x56mm to fully compress?
> 
> If not, then get a 200x56mm and get a bottom out spacer fitted.


Ok, I'm going to find out how to do that, thanks.



two-one said:


> How about here?
> Oh, now I see; they are for sale, but deliverytime is unknown...


Yeah, that's where I bought my first and where I have an order outstanding. They are advising me to cancel the order, so not sure what's going on, but the seem hard to get. Perhaps the distributor updated to newer revision (updated IFP) and they don't want to sell those updated models for the old price? (which would be understandable).


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

mullen119 said:


> There is an updated ifp and seal. Old piston is silver, new piston is red. No reports of the new ifp's having issues.
> 
> I suggest letting dougal do it or buy the ifp tool and do it yourself. It's pricey, but let's you solve your own issues and change tunes.





RoboS said:


> Updated IFP piston worked well last 9 months, the old one failed after 1 week, so definitely the problem is gone with the new one.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L21 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the replies. Booked with Dougal to work his magic. Hopefully once the new IFP is in the issue won't re-occur.


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## Seventh-777 (Aug 30, 2013)

I have a brand new Sherpa, and after ~50 miles my Mcleod started bottoming out with a thunk/clunk right here. I'm not getting even close to the full travel out of it.

I did some Googling around and tried completely cycling the air (empty/refill) and it made no difference. I've contacted my LBS and they're going to work on a warrantee, but in the meantime is there anything else that I can try?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Seventh-777 said:


> I have a brand new Sherpa, and after ~50 miles my Mcleod started bottoming out with a thunk/clunk right here. I'm not getting even close to the full travel out of it.
> 
> I did some Googling around and tried completely cycling the air (empty/refill) and it made no difference. I've contacted my LBS and they're going to work on a warrantee, but in the meantime is there anything else that I can try?
> View attachment 1094117


Unfortunately you have one of the first batch of McLeod's that suffer from the dreaded ifp issue. Manitou will fix it for you with no issues. You can let your shop handle it or deal directly with manitou by email them at [email protected]


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## Seventh-777 (Aug 30, 2013)

mullen119 said:


> Unfortunately you have one of the first batch of McLeod's that suffer from the dreaded ifp issue. Manitou will fix it for you with no issues. You can let your shop handle it or deal directly with manitou by email them at [email protected]


Thanks very much for the quick reply! I'm not particularly comfortable servicing the internals of shock myself, especially since the bike is brand new. Any idea if it's something the average joe home mechanic can do, or am I better off letting the LBS handle it?

Appreciate it!


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

For those in the US ordering from Bike24 or Bike-components.de .... How does paying with Paypal work? Do they just convert to a dollar payment using the 0.89 conversion factor or do they charge an additional fee?


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

I just did it and used Paypal. However, I remembered just afterwards that that paypal do sting you on the conversion ( I looked into this before) and immediately regretted my haste. Better to use a credit card. Amex are quite reasonable last time I looked


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Seventh-777 said:


> Thanks very much for the quick reply! I'm not particularly comfortable servicing the internals of shock myself, especially since the bike is brand new. Any idea if it's something the average joe home mechanic can do, or am I better off letting the LBS handle it?
> 
> Appreciate it!


Better to let the pros handle it this time. You want the updated ifp so it doesnt happen again.


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## Seventh-777 (Aug 30, 2013)

Just wanted to chime back in - Hayes repaired the shock no questions asked and it's good as new. (Well, better than new, I hope since it was new when it broke...) They were great about responding to my emails, too.

If if breaks again I'll replace it with something different, but here's hoping it lasts for a while.


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## hurck (Apr 26, 2012)

Really impressive shock. Installed it a few days ago to replace a fox ctd that came with my frame. After 2 rides I feel it performs much better than the fox which had a specific tuning for my bike. Great small bump absorption, and sucking up the bigger hits with ease. I think the fox will end up on ebay very soon.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

hurck said:


> Really impressive shock. Installed it a few days ago to replace a fox ctd that came with my frame. After 2 rides I feel it performs much better than* the fox which had a specific tuning for my bike*. Great small bump absorption, and sucking up the bigger hits with ease. I think the fox will end up on ebay very soon.


Think this is actually just FOX marketing lingo for "Here is what you get, pick one and we will state that it was actually tuned for your bike's kinematics." Another reason I hate FOX..... too damn big for their own britches.


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

Also just to report back that this is a great shock!

It's a gazzillion time better than the CTD I had on my Tallboy . First ride, I knew that even before getting to the trailhead, and then it just got better and better as I pushed it through different terrain. I raced the vt50 last weekend and beat my last year time by 20 mins - not all down to the shock for sure , but some.

It's fixed all the issues I had with the ctd (small bump performance = chatter through root & rock sections , blowing through mid-range and bottoming out). And it's not run in yet (they say 20 hours - I've got about 15 so far).

It's still stock tune. Not thought about how I'd tune it yet, but manitou have already said "tell us what you want to achieve and we'll give you tuning suggestions."

My only criticism is the comp adjust lever has only small movement so its hard to know where you've set it, especially in the heat of a race, so I might get a remote for it. The different comp settings are great btw - almost full lock out to super plush - I used all to good effect

Do it - I don't think you'll be sorry. And for $205 delivered that I paid it's a no-brainer over the alternatives


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

I am looking at a Mcleod manufactured September 14'.
can i assume it does not have the updated IFP?

If that's the case, will manitou upgrade it as a warranty issue (its not ridden yet - NOS).

Oren


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> I am looking at a Mcleod manufactured September 14'.
> can i assume it does not have the updated IFP?
> 
> If that's the case, will manitou upgrade it as a warranty issue (its not ridden yet - NOS).
> ...


The manitou guys retrofitted the new IFP to all the stock they had. If you get a shock that slipped through you should be taken care of under warranty.


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

Got my McLeod back, a big thanks to Dougal for replacing the IFP. 

Had two rides so far and it feels even better than before, just eats up the rough stuff. 

I had Dougal add an extra CC of oil when bleeding to give it some extra ramp up. It is still using all the travel very easily I did have two small volume spacers in the shock unsure if they were left in when the IFP was replaced as I cannot get the can undone to check! I think it is just due to my linear suspension curve, I never feel any harsh bottom out so will leave it as is.


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Nominal size is 19/32" (15.08mm) but actual size can be anywhere between 15.00 and 15.20mm. It really is a horror-show and you have a 0.02mm window between too tight and too loose.


I agree with RoboS. Fox bushings are way too loose in this shock and the lower on my tallboy developed noticeable play after 200 miles. Interested in Dougal's comment. I had assumed that nominal was 15.0, but you say it's 15.08? Mine measures 15.08. My RS CTD measures 15.02 and the same bushings are nice and snug when in there. I bought a roller bearing and this too measures 15.02 OD and is too loose in the McLeod eyelet to use without fear of it spinning in the eye and wrecking the shock. I've been back and forth with Manitou on the issue and still unresolved. Can someone confirm: i) what is the industry standard size 15mm or 19/32"? And ii) what is the Manitou nominal? By inference, is Manitou industry standard size or not?

Still a great shock bur I'm pissed off that I cannot get std bushings or bearing to work well with it


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

I noticed that McLeod is not made in 184x44 size. Why they skipped this size? I thinking about getting the Banshee Phantom that uses this size. Is it somehow possible to limit the e2e and travel of the 190x50 mm by 6mm?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Run the 190 with extra 6mm of sag?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

arnea said:


> I noticed that McLeod is not made in 184x44 size. Why they skipped this size? I thinking about getting the Banshee Phantom that uses this size. Is it somehow possible to limit the e2e and travel of the 190x50 mm by 6mm?


You can put a spacer in the air can under the top out bumper. It's designed to work this way, and the benifit of not having a self regulating negative air chamber.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Much better answer!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

geoffpw said:


> I agree with RoboS. Fox bushings are way too loose in this shock and the lower on my tallboy developed noticeable play after 200 miles. Interested in Dougal's comment. I had assumed that nominal was 15.0, but you say it's 15.08? Mine measures 15.08. My RS CTD measures 15.02 and the same bushings are nice and snug when in there. I bought a roller bearing and this too measures 15.02 OD and is too loose in the McLeod eyelet to use without fear of it spinning in the eye and wrecking the shock. I've been back and forth with Manitou on the issue and still unresolved. Can someone confirm: i) what is the industry standard size 15mm or 19/32"? And ii) what is the Manitou nominal? By inference, is Manitou industry standard size or not?
> 
> Still a great shock bur I'm pissed off that I cannot get std bushings or bearing to work well with it


That's just the eyelet. The next complication is the DU bushings. Different brands have slightly different wall thicknesses! 19/32" is the official OD. Nothing measures 15mm.

It's a nightmare. Which is why I do decent business having people send shocks in for custom hardware. Only way to guarantee the result.



arnea said:


> I noticed that McLeod is not made in 184x44 size. Why they skipped this size? I thinking about getting the Banshee Phantom that uses this size. Is it somehow possible to limit the e2e and travel of the 190x50 mm by 6mm?


I've got a whole bag full of spacers I had made just for this. 1.25mm thickness so you can run 4 to make a 190x50 into a 185x45mm or run 6 for 183.75x43.75
I don't have them up on the website, but send an email to shockcraft and we can sort you out.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Dougal said:


> I've got a whole bag full of spacers I had made just for this. 1.25mm thickness so you can run 4 to make a 190x50 into a 185x45mm or run 6 for 183.75x43.75
> I don't have them up on the website, but send an email to shockcraft and we can sort you out.


Cool. I will do it when I get the frame.


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## WerkBMX (Jul 20, 2015)

Just a heads up. Bike24 has a decent deal on the McLeod right now. When you first look it up, it comes up at 189.90 euro. Once you've logged in, 159.58 euro which is right around $172. Ordered 2, one for me and my riding buddy, plus a king can. I did get an email from them to verify a credit put back on my card to confirm card ownership. Took 3 days to see the credit to confirm, but soon as I emailed them back with the amount credited, package shipped. Not bad for a good deal, plus I picked up some Nobby Nics for $35. 

BTW,they have a flat rate shipping to the US for right around $21.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I love my shock, but it just came down with the dreaded bottom out syndrome. It's on it's way to Manitou now. May not need it though just ordered a Following frame set.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

found a used - in good condition mcleod. really good price.
came of a lapierre 427, so 200x57mm.
its going in an SC SL that needs 200x51... can the stroke be limited easily?
what parts are needed to shorten the stroke?

Tx
Oren


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Not sure you can shorten the stroke without shortening eye-to-eye the same amount.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Thanks !

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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

WerkBMX said:


> Just a heads up. Bike24 has a decent deal on the McLeod right now. When you first look it up, it comes up at 189.90 euro. Once you've logged in, 159.58 euro which is right around $172. Ordered 2, one for me and my riding buddy, plus a king can. I did get an email from them to verify a credit put back on my card to confirm card ownership. Took 3 days to see the credit to confirm, but soon as I emailed them back with the amount credited, package shipped. Not bad for a good deal, plus I picked up some Nobby Nics for $35.
> 
> BTW,they have a flat rate shipping to the US for right around $21.


For me it stays 189,90 when logged in, did you have a coupon?

FWIW my 2nd mcleod which arrived end of September from bike24 had a production date of June 2016.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

CS645 said:


> For me it stays 189,90 when logged in, did you have a coupon?
> 
> FWIW my 2nd mcleod which arrived end of September from bike24 had a production date of June 2016.


It's because of the tax... for shipping to the USA, bike24 deducts the ~20% tax we have in europe


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

two-one said:


> It's because of the tax... for shipping to the USA, bike24 deducts the ~20% tax we have in europe


I see.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

PhillipJ said:


> Not sure you can shorten the stroke without shortening eye-to-eye the same amount.


If you put a spacer under the bottom-out bumper, you reduce the stroke, right? No change to i2i.


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## Jurven240z (Jun 19, 2013)

Ordered from Bike24 179.53 euro = 190.18 usd. Cann't wait.


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## haristheodoropoulos (Dec 21, 2011)

Anyone use it to an long travel enduro bike? I have a Bashee Rune and i do a lot of jumps.I am thinking of giving it a try because a more than satisfied from my Mattoc.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

haristheodoropoulos said:


> Anyone use it to an long travel enduro bike? I have a Bashee Rune and i do a lot of jumps.I am thinking of giving it a try because a more than satisfied from my Mattoc.


That's what they're made for.

I've got one customer who we had to bump up the IFP pressure for hard jump landings. Otherwise good.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Does anyone know whether the King Can upgrade has just an increased positive air volume, or whether the negative volume is increased as well (like Debonair/EVOL)


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

two-one said:


> Does anyone know whether the King Can upgrade has just an increased positive air volume, or whether the negative volume is increased as well (like Debonair/EVOL)


Positive only.


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

So the Mcleod has fixed neg chamber..like the early Swingers..they suffered from suckdown and had to have the can dumped and reinstalled to reset neg chamber. How does one reset the Mcleod neg chamber? I ended up JB welding a shreader valve at the lowest point over the neg chamber, on the outside of the can. I them drilled a .020in hole into the can and reinstalled the valve core. I then could reset the neg chamber pressure on my swinger. I also could adjust my neg chambers pressure if I wanted to. I wonder if one could do the same on the Mcleod..

Also it would have been nice if one could pressurize the ifp with a shock pump..One then could play with the shock themselves with less hassle.

I know they are not spv but I like to play with shims..


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

1niceride said:


> So the Mcleod has fixed neg chamber..like the early Swingers..they suffered from suckdown and had to have the can dumped and reinstalled to reset neg chamber. How does one reset the Mcleod neg chamber? I ended up JB welding a shreader valve at the lowest point over the neg chamber, on the outside of the can. I them drilled a .020in hole into the can and reinstalled the valve core. I then could reset the neg chamber pressure on my swinger. I also could adjust my neg chambers pressure if I wanted to. I wonder if one could do the same on the Mcleod..
> 
> Also it would have been nice if one could pressurize the ifp with a shock pump..One then could play with the shock themselves with less hassle.
> 
> I know they are not spv but I like to play with shims..


You just take the can off and reinstall to reset the chamber. Haven't heard of one being stuck down though. If anything, it leaks a little over time.

You can use the 3 in 1 shock tool to charge the ifp. 300psi


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> You just take the can off and reinstall to reset the chamber. Haven't heard of one being stuck down though. If anything, it leaks a little over time.
> 
> You can use the 3 in 1 shock tool to charge the ifp. 300psi


I still wish Manitou would come up with something else. I am finding I need to reset my can once every 3 months, which is too often in my book.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> I still wish Manitou would come up with something else. I am finding I need to reset my can once every 3 months, which is too often in my book.


I agree, self regulating would be ideal. They changed ano contractors and shock body manufacturing processes to help, but it will always be a small issue. Never understood why they didn't go self regulating.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> I agree, self regulating would be ideal. They changed ano contractors and shock body manufacturingredients processes to help, but it will always be a small issue. Never understood why they didn't go self regulating.


I wonder if there is a patent.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The self-regulating negative with a notch means you've got a dead spot in the spring stroke.

If you're losing negative that early then change first the air-can negative quad ring and if that still persists then you may need a shock body change.

The McLeod (single can) on Mrs Dougal's Intense hasn't needed any negative air reset. I just changed the air seal on my other McLeod (prototype king-can) to see if I can fix the occasional reset needed on that one.

Unfortunately I've been riding Fox rear shocks on my two main bikes all winter to test these: Faux Flo Air Sleeve Kit (Shockcraft)
Suffice to say I've missed the McLeod and swapped it back on this week.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

1niceride said:


> So the Mcleod has fixed neg chamber..like the early Swingers..they suffered from suckdown and had to have the can dumped and reinstalled to reset neg chamber. How does one reset the Mcleod neg chamber? I ended up JB welding a shreader valve at the lowest point over the neg chamber, on the outside of the can. I them drilled a .020in hole into the can and reinstalled the valve core. I then could reset the neg chamber pressure on my swinger. I also could adjust my neg chambers pressure if I wanted to. I wonder if one could do the same on the Mcleod..
> 
> Also it would have been nice if one could pressurize the ifp with a shock pump..One then could play with the shock themselves with less hassle.
> 
> I know they are not spv but I like to play with shims..


Stuck-down on the swingers was due to a worn main air seal. What happens is they leak either slowly or quickly from positive to negative during deep compression. Then the extra air pressure in the negative is enough to make the worn seal seat properly and they don't let the air leak back to the positive.

Generally, unless theres an issue with the air-can, fixing a stuck down swinger once fixes it for years.

There are possibly still patents on dual-air for shocks. I know RS had dual air on the SID shocks around 2000. It may not have expired yet. It's a great tuning option but confuses the hell out of most riders.


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

I do know that the year after my swinger 4way (gray sticker) an mcu elastomer with a vented shock body seal was used in the swingers. I know because the good people at Manitou sent me several years of kits to fix mine. 

Was there an issue with elastomer neg's?

The swinger with the piggyback was a real pain to reset...had to sorta dump the damper and reset the can each time cause the can wouldn't drop past the main seal so i had to remove the piston which seals the damper...

I eventually, after the neg air fitting, used a ground to fit elastomer that came with the other kits. No more issues in 10 years. I retired it just the other day.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

A while back I sent a McLeod off to a reviewer for Spoke Magazine here in NZ: Magazine ? Spoke Magazine

The reviewer (Rod) wanted a shock for a Santa Cruz Hightower. Previously running a Fox X2. So the challenge was set:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BMscg72hVnt/


__
http://instagr.am/p/BMtPCa_BTdT/

He suggested a hard-charging style so I made two tweaks to the McLeod to suit that. I adjusted the compression damping range to give the full amount possible on the 4th click (via the locknut inside the can) and I increased the IFP pressure to 400psi to ensure he wouldn't have any issues with cavitation on fast compression.

He loved it so much he doesn't want to give it back. I set expectations of a seamless ride and more traction, the McLeod delivered.

I told Rod he can keep the McLeod until we get him a Manitou test fork to match. Magnum is in the air as we speak.


----------



## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Damn, Dougal! I wished you lived in the states. It would be nice to have you tune my McLeods.

I am considering a Pivot Switchblade, but am wondering if the McLeod will work. The shock strut bolts through and compresses around the shock end. From their website: "On the rear of the shock, the spacer hardware and bushing will need to be removed as the strut mounts directly to the shock body." 

My question is - does the McLeod shock end have the same dimensions as the Fox?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

yogiprophet said:


> Damn, Dougal! I wished you lived in the states. It would be nice to have you tune my McLeods.
> 
> I am considering a Pivot Switchblade, but am wondering if the McLeod will work. The seatstay attaches straight to the shock body itself. From their website: "On the rear of the shock, the spacer hardware and bushing will need to be removed as the strut mounts directly to the shock body."
> 
> My question is - does the McLeod shock end have the same dimensions as the Fox?


It will work fine, you just need to remove the bushing. It's the same as all the major brands.

If you need help with a tune, you manitou will help you out or I can.


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

Hej there,
i recently bought a used/almost new one for my `13 Orange Patriot. Only did a small testride so far, but the transition from compression to rebound is not really smooth and is followed by a clicking noise. Even with no air i can´t use almost 10mm of its 63mm stroke, which seems a little excessive for a bottom-out damper.
Any suggestions? I am capable of rebuilding shocks and already ordered the 3 in 1 tool to fiddle with its hydraulics..


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

zangg said:


> Hej there,
> i recently bought a used/almost new one for my `13 Orange Patriot. Only did a small testride so far, but the transition from compression to rebound is not really smooth and is followed by a clicking noise. Even with no air i can´t use almost 10mm of its 63mm stroke, which seems a little excessive for a bottom-out damper.
> Any suggestions? I am capable of rebuilding shocks and already ordered the 3 in 1 tool to fiddle with its hydraulics..


A knock of the shims closing can be removed with adjustment of the shaft head on the shaft. Undo the lock nut under the shaft head and increase preload 1/4 turn at a time until it's good.
If you go too far then you won't get full travel from the compression adjuster.

Not being able to fully compress means the IFP is in the wrong place, likely too much oil inside.


----------



## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

Thanks for that info, now i know more before i dive into it. My linear/maybe even slightly degressive frame would benefit from a bit stiffer preload anyways.
Can i damage the IFP when i bottom out, or is it just excessive progression due to small IFP chamber? Is it usefull to increase IFP pressure to counteract cavitation when in use with higher ratio frames?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

zangg said:


> Thanks for that info, now i know more before i dive into it. My linear/maybe even slightly degressive frame would benefit from a bit stiffer preload anyways.
> Can i damage the IFP when i bottom out, or is it just excessive progression due to small IFP chamber? Is it usefull to increase IFP pressure to counteract cavitation when in use with higher ratio frames?


You won't damage the IFP. It sounds like excessive progression at this point.

There's a very small window for useful IFP placement on these shocks. 1-2cc maximum variation between good and not. The service video uses the shock at full compression to place the IFP.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

I will get a mcleod with 200*51 to let it tune first. I assume it is the same as the 57 travel version,no? Should only be a spacer to remove,isn' t it?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> I will get a mcleod with 200*51 to let it tune first. I assume it is the same as the 57 travel version,no? Should only be a spacer to remove,isn' t it?


The 200x51mm shock is actually based on the 190x50mm. It uses a different air can, body and shaft to the 200x57mm.

But. It's no problem to simply put a spacer inside the 200x57mm to reduce the compression length if required.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The 200x51mm shock is actually based on the 190x50mm. It uses a different air can, body and shaft to the 200x57mm.
> 
> But. It's no problem to simply put a spacer inside the 200x57mm to reduce the compression length if required.


Oh,thus it will not work? I need 200*57mm travel,but would get a barely used 51mm mcleod for 99 Euro.thought I could just exit the spacer and get 57mm of travel


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Oh,thus it will not work? I need 200*57mm travel,but would get a barely used 51mm mcleod for 99 Euro.thought I could just exit the spacer and get 57mm of travel


No good unfortunately.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Hey Dougal, any idea what the current ETA on a McLeod in 216x63 is? 
I've really missed my old one and really want to get another one for my current bike to replace the monarch +r that's on there.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Kiwiplague said:


> Hey Dougal, any idea what the current ETA on a McLeod in 216x63 is?
> I've really missed my old one and really want to get another one for my current bike to replace the monarch +r that's on there.


https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=72580


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kiwiplague said:


> Hey Dougal, any idea what the current ETA on a McLeod in 216x63 is?
> I've really missed my old one and really want to get another one for my current bike to replace the monarch +r that's on there.


Got one in stock here and ready to go. With 2017 graphics!

Thanks for letting us know the website was wrong! We shipped two out today for an earthquake test rig.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Dougal said:


> Got one in stock here and ready to go. With 2017 graphics!
> 
> Thanks for letting us know the website was wrong! We shipped two out today for an earthquake test rig.


Sweet as, will fire an order through soon!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kiwiplague said:


> Sweet as, will fire an order through soon!


You should upgrade your Mattocs. Matt is selling his Pro's which were previously my personal set. Very well looked after.

The rest of the world will be weirding out about now. Thinking NZ is so small that all the MTB riders know each other by first name.

They're only half wrong.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Dougal said:


> You should upgrade your Mattocs. Matt is selling his Pro's which were previously my personal set. Very well looked after.
> .


Are those the ones on Trademe right now? Saw those, was tempted, but currently don't have a rear shock (sold the Monarch) and the Mcleod was slightly more essential! 
Upgraded rebound for the Expert is next on the agenda, just have to check the finances.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kiwiplague said:


> Are those the ones on Trademe right now? Saw those, was tempted, but currently don't have a rear shock (sold the Monarch) and the Mcleod was slightly more essential!
> Upgraded rebound for the Expert is next on the agenda, just have to check the finances.


Yep. A bargain if anyone needs them.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=72580


Thanks for that mullen. Thought I'd better give the local boy a go though, or I'd probably never hear the end of it!


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> No good unfortunately.


Hi,

And you are 100 percent sure? 
Marzocchi, dvo and fox seem all to work that way and a 200*51 is just a 57 version restricted via spacer


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Hi,
> 
> And you are 100 percent sure?
> Marzocchi, dvo and fox seem all to work that way and a 200*51 is just a 57 version restricted via spacer


Yes. I'm 100% sure.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Thats a pity. I just hoped. Couleur get an almost new 200*51 mcleod for 99 euros in germany


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Yes. I'm 100% sure.


Which parts would i have to change? And how much Do they cost?


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## -0T0- (Jan 24, 2017)

*Fox Three Postion Remote Lever*

Because the Manitou lever can only operate in 2 positions, I want to attach "Fox Three Postion Remote Lever" to this Shock. 
I think that if the lever is in the middle position, the IPA knob of this Shock will be exactly 45 degrees.
Please tell me which mode works in this angle. Trail Control? Technical Climb? Or between them?



gregnash said:


> The IPA knob has what seems to be 4 different detent positions but definitely feels like it could have five with a small bit more movement.


I think that there is a 45 degree position if it is 5 clicks.(90/4x2=45)


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Which parts would i have to change? And how much Do they cost?


The 200x56 compared to the 200x51 you'd need to change the body, the shaft, the air can and the adjuster rods inside the shaft.
It's not worth it.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

I know I've read about heating the air can before installation to adjust the volume of the negative air spring and a thought just occurred to me, could you cool the air can down, like in a fridge or freezer and then install it? The air would expand when warming up and increase the negative chamber's ambient psi, thereby increasing its affect.

Just a thought more than anything, as I've generally found the negative spring to work quite well anyway.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

You could install the air can with your hands and shock in a chest freezer. 

That'd be the easiest way to get denser air in the negative.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> You could install the air can with your hands and shock in a chest freezer.
> 
> That'd be the easiest way to get denser air in the negative.


What is actually so special about the. Architecture of the mcleod that this little shock works so much better than monarch plus and can,in some bikes,even compete with the larger shocks?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

bansaiman said:


> What is actually so special about the. Architecture of the mcleod that this little shock works so much better than monarch plus and can,in some bikes,even compete with the larger shocks?


Until you overheat it doing back to back runs at Northstar and weigh 235 pounds. Amazing shock and I pushed it way beyond its intended use before it needed attention.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Cary said:


> Until you overheat it doing back to back runs at Northstar and weigh 235 pounds. Amazing shock and I pushed it way beyond its intended use before it needed attention.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I asked about the architecture! ! ;-)
Perhaps dougal or someone knows. I mean the pistons and something else must be different.it should not only be a difference in shimming,i guess


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> What is actually so special about the. Architecture of the mcleod that this little shock works so much better than monarch plus and can,in some bikes,even compete with the larger shocks?


The valving setup and how it is tuned is very different to every other shock I've been inside.
It's simple and it works very well. A great piece of Engineering.


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## haristheodoropoulos (Dec 21, 2011)

Totally agree with Dougal. Just changed it over my beloved CCDB and i must admit that by the 2nd ride i totally forgot CCDB. That little piece works sooooooo good. In rocky sections. jumps. flow trails....in everything. For the record i think that for Banshee Rune the best set-up is to leave the IFP chamber to it's original pressure. use of intermediate can and sag at 28%.The sticker is a custom one and not what Manitou supply


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## __U3__ (Oct 4, 2015)

How would you compare the McLeod to the DPS and the Monarch in terms of progressivness?
I'm looking for a solution for my RM T-Bolt, which has a very progressive shock linkage. My Monarch Debonair (with or without tokens in the negative spring) doesn't get full travel and blows a bit to easily through the midstroke. Maybe the McLeod can be a solution if it doesn't have a very progressive air spring?


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

I think a Mcleod is not going to be the solution to your problem. If the new type of airshock like a debonair fails to deliver you should try a coil shock. The leverage ratio is very progressive, but considering its only 120mm of travel you should be able to bottom it out nevertheless.
Dougal you seem to be the most experienced guy when it comes to tuning Mcleods. I have a salvaged collection of shims and various ideas/problems i´d like to fix.
First and foremost i feel/hear a sharp klick/clap when the shock transitions from rebound to compression stroke and this is very noticeable when i hit fast square edged bumps. My bike is supersilent so this is very irritating. You suggested that i increase preload on the shim stack, like the IPA lever does, but this doesn´t really change anything. What else could be the problem? It´s far from the smooth shock everyone seems to enjoy here....
Second i need to steepen the HSC curve to compensate for my linear high ratio frame (Orange Patriot ´13). I am a rather aggressive rider and only ride natural terrain, so landing a jump often results in some kind of a huck to flat and my bike needs to cope with that on a regular basis. 180mm is more than comfortable enough so i want to increase its big hit abilities. What is your preffered method to achieve this using the factory shimstack as a base? 
I hope you can point me in the right directions, it´s going to take a few attempts anyway, but i appreciate any spared experiments


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

zangg said:


> Dougal you seem to be the most experienced guy when it comes to tuning Mcleods. I have a salvaged collection of shims and various ideas/problems i´d like to fix.
> First and foremost i feel/hear a sharp klick/clap when the shock transitions from rebound to compression stroke and this is very noticeable when i hit fast square edged bumps. My bike is supersilent so this is very irritating. You suggested that i increase preload on the shim stack, like the IPA lever does, but this doesn´t really change anything. What else could be the problem? It´s far from the smooth shock everyone seems to enjoy here....


Unscrew the air-can and look for the locknut between the bottomout bumper and shaft head. The shaft winds in and out to set the preload on the shim stack internally. Too little preload and it'll knock as you've found.
Loosen the locknut and go for 1/8th of a turn at a time until it's good. If you go too far you'll lose the last click of compression adjust and possibly damage the shims.



zangg said:


> Second i need to steepen the HSC curve to compensate for my linear high ratio frame (Orange Patriot ´13). I am a rather aggressive rider and only ride natural terrain, so landing a jump often results in some kind of a huck to flat and my bike needs to cope with that on a regular basis. 180mm is more than comfortable enough so i want to increase its big hit abilities. What is your preffered method to achieve this using the factory shimstack as a base?
> I hope you can point me in the right directions, it´s going to take a few attempts anyway, but i appreciate any spared experiments


The above extra preload will do this already. But you'll also want to bump up the IFP pressure to cope with hard landings. Going to 400psi (and maybe even 500psi) will prevent cavitation on fast impacts like those landings.

There are shim stack tuning options for more HSC too. But I haven't ridden them.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Unscrew the air-can and look for the locknut between the bottomout bumper and shaft head. The shaft winds in and out to set the preload on the shim stack internally. Too little preload and it'll knock as you've found.
> Loosen the locknut and go for 1/8th of a turn at a time until it's good. If you go too far you'll lose the last click of compression adjust and possibly damage the shims.
> 
> The above extra preload will do this already. But you'll also want to bump up the IFP pressure to cope with hard landings. Going to 400psi (and maybe even 500psi) will prevent cavitation on fast impacts like those landings.
> ...


To expand on this, the shaft dougal is talking about has a 1mm thread pitch. Adjusting the shaft 1/10th of a turn will adjust the initial preload by .1mm. To put that in perspective, the Ipa adjuster has a total range of .3mm

Note that doing this has a similar effect as using the ipa adjustment. If using the ipa adjuster doesn't solve your issue, neither will adjusting the shaft.

Make small adjustments as they have a fairly large effect. 
As dougal said, ifp pressure is very important here, especially if you ride with the ipa adjuster in position 3 or 4.


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

Thanks for the input.

Like i said, the IPA adjuster doesn´t make too much of a difference, but it feels very loose in the open and first indexed position, so i will increase the preload anyway.
I have already increased IFP pressure to 400 psi which is about the max my shock pump can do. The damper seems to be properly bled, too....


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I've been riding a McLeod on my 125 29 trail bike for about a month now. I can't really say anymore than to echo what Mullen and Dougal have already reported. It works and works very well. And, isn't just another iteration of the same design fox and rs have been using for years.

My shock was an early version and the preload and velocity stack were a little different than what mullen posted. Basically a little less platform and hsc than the current production tune. Still, it worked better than any other off the shelf or even so called custom tuned oem unit I've ridden.

I have revalved it to something similar to what mullen is running. Basically needed a little more lsc/msc support and reshaped the rebound curve. I've also played with varying stack preload, which is a very nice tuning variable and easy to do once you gather the necessary tools. Had to reduce the air vol slightly on the sv can to match the leverage curve of my frame which is pretty well flat-linear.



__U3__ said:


> Maybe the McLeod can be a solution if it doesn't have a very progressive air spring?


I haven't compared to a DPS, but I have compared to an RT3 Debonair. I think it could be a good fit, but the standard volume can that the shock comes with will have to be replaced with high volume King can. You can contact Manitou to confirm, but I would speculated that King can is higher volume than the Debonair, which isn't really a very high volume can. Reducing the neg chamber on the debonair does nothing to reduce progression.



zangg said:


> I think a Mcleod is not going to be the solution to your problem. If the new type of airshock like a debonair fails to deliver you should try a coil shock. The leverage ratio is very progressive, but considering its only 120mm of travel you should be able to bottom it out nevertheless.
> Dougal you seem to be the most experienced guy when it comes to tuning Mcleods. I have a salvaged collection of shims and various ideas/problems i´d like to fix.
> First and foremost i feel/hear a sharp klick/clap when the shock transitions from rebound to compression stroke and this is very noticeable when i hit fast square edged bumps. My bike is supersilent so this is very irritating. You suggested that i increase preload on the shim stack, like the IPA lever does, but this doesn´t really change anything. What else could be the problem? It´s far from the smooth shock everyone seems to enjoy here....
> Second i need to steepen the HSC curve to compensate for my linear high ratio frame (Orange Patriot ´13). I am a rather aggressive rider and only ride natural terrain, so landing a jump often results in some kind of a huck to flat and my bike needs to cope with that on a regular basis. 180mm is more than comfortable enough so i want to increase its big hit abilities. What is your preffered method to achieve this using the factory shimstack as a base?
> I hope you can point me in the right directions, it´s going to take a few attempts anyway, but i appreciate any spared experiments


I don't have much to add on stack preload above what Dougal posted, but will note that stack preload has a rather large effect on the damping and will shift it up or down respectively. However, once you reduce past zero preload in ipa1, aka float, there is still a shift in the curve but it's not as large when you get into the preloaded side. With the stock tune, you can tighten the preload to the point that there is ~0.2mm of preload initially plus .3mm range of the adjuster. That's a lot of preload. That will introduce some harshness on small/med bump. Sound like you might have some float, which can definitely cause a lack of damping support.

More importantly though, I really think you will probably need to reduce the vol of the sv air can to match the spring curve to your frame. It has some slight digression, 2.75-3.0. This is more important for support than hsc damping. If you are running 25%+ sag with with the sv can, it's more than likely fairly soft on mid/btm spring rate. Spring rate always trumps damping, so get the spring right first and then tune the damping.


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

Can you point me where i find mullens shim setup?

You checked the Patriots leverage ratio in linkage x3 i guess? Antonios model is totally off, i can tell you. I measured and modeled it myself and its not degressive but linear within 5%. I never run more than 25 % and already have almost no harsh bottom outs which is why i want to increase hsc. I´d like to gain more support when hitting high speed brake bumps or jump into roots etc..


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

It's toward the beginning of this thread. Yes, I was just looking at Antonios model for the Patriot. Sounds like your spring setup is in the ball park.

Say your preload is on the float side. Adding ipa will get you to zero preload, assuming it's not way off. Each click adds .1mm of preload. If you have .2mm of float, ipa3 would get you to zero preload.

If that doesn't help, and assuming you have the current production tune, I would start by changing the velocity stack, which is the 8id shims under the preload stack.


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## Trance650b (Feb 3, 2017)

Looking to get advice on this shock, i've a 150mm pike, I weigh 110KG and ride an XL trance 2015 would this shock be ok, I have an x-fusion RL in a 200x57 setup (200x51 is the factory shock size).


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

thx 520, i guess this is all i can ask for at this point. I just increased preload to no float and the knock is still there, so I´ll need to look into it anyway.
Now i need to organize suspension fluid. Manitou refers to a 5Wt Fork Oil which is Motorex Racing Fork Oil 5.0, considering they used Motorex in the past?
[email protected]°C is 21.8 but with a rather low VI of 200. I used Fuchs Silkolene Pro RSF (which is produced round the corner) very succesfully in the past and will continue doing so. Its VI is at 379, almost twice as temperature stable as the original oil, very desirable in my experience. 
I´ll post any updates or should we open up a Mcleod tuning/servicing thread to condense all the infos, like mullens shimstack posting on page 16?


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

Trance650b said:


> Looking to get advice on this shock, i've a 150mm pike, I weigh 110KG and ride an XL trance 2015 would this shock be ok, I have an x-fusion RL in a 200x57 setup (200x51 is the factory shock size).


I am around your weight and run the Mcleod and previously had the Xfusion on the bike. The Mcleod is noticeably better.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

@zanng

Manitou oil is 16cSt at 40C. I use Maxima 3wt RSF. How did you verify preload is zero?


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

Ay so no motorex anymore? Where did you get the information on Maxima, i was not able to find anything official... but anyhow i´ll get myself 2.5wt silkolene and mix it to fit Maxima 3wt. Then VI is expected to be 3 times higher than original :O
I guess its zero preload because now the first klick actually makes a difference, which it didn´t before.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Dougal provided the info on the oil. Regular, maxima 5wt fork oil will work, and that's similar to what manitou uses, but for a more agressive rider on a rowdy bike, you'd benefit from a higher VI.

Maxima list kinematic viscosity on their website.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

I've got about 35hrs on my Mcleod now, but still haven't settled on setup I'm 100% happy with. But it could just be that I don't seem to really know what I want from the rear shock and just need another opinion. 

Installed on 2013 Reign (26er, 150mm travel)
I weigh 78kg (~170lbs) fully geared up, 73kg out of the shower. 

Previously ran the Monach RL at about 170-175 PSI which kept it fairly stiff. 

The Mcleod @145-150 PSI gives me 18-20% sag and @125-130 PSI gives me 30-32%. Rebound usually hovering around 90 degrees from max. 

Dougal or Anyone else, do you have any recommendations on settings for the Mcleod that might best suit maestro suspension?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

@Bluman8

It's kind of hard to help you on setup if you can't give us some feedback on what it's doing that you don't like. Keep in mind that a poor fork setup will affect how the shock feels. What fork are you running?

I'd start by setting the sag at 25% and adjust spring by feel from there, while the compression full soft, Ipa1. If you feel like your fork is in the ballpark, adjust the shock spring for good balance with the fork. Use 1-2 psi change increments on the spring.

Lsr setting sounds a little slow for where you are running the spring. This shock is fairly sensitive to rebound changes, so go easy with it. Lsr can make or break small bump.

For reference, I'm close to your weight, 120psi, and lsr is at 9/16th of a turn out from closed. I'm running a different rebound tune than stock, but my lsr setting didn't change much.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks @ktm520. 

The fork is one of my concerns. I run a Maz 350CR (~25% sag) and I'm not convinced they are playing as a team yet, but can't afford a new fork. 

I suppose my main concern is just really trying to find the right balance between up and down. 

The shock is amazing when pointed down hill, but lately it seems that every climb is an energy sapping bob fest, but not sure if it's that the shock is not suited to the high leverage ratio of Giants or it just my declining fitness from not getting to ride as often as used to. 

At lower pressures in the Mcleod the IPA1 setting almost seemed too soft, but once again that could just be my riding style or maybe that I'm just not used to the shock. The first few rides the smoothness of the rear end really put whole my balance off cause I wasn't getting the same trail feed back. Hence I'm trying to get a gauge if it's me or my setup. 

My local trails are mixed bag of loose over hard with a lot of baby fist to fist sized rocks and ledges so I tend to run a pretty fast rebound (front and back) to prevent packing down over repeat bumps.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Just a heads up for anyone interested, I have a Mcleod posted for sale in classifieds. Rebuilt by manitou and never ridden. Brand new internally. 200x50/7.875x2.00.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Unscrew the air-can and look for the locknut between the bottomout bumper and shaft head. The shaft winds in and out to set the preload on the shim stack internally. Too little preload and it'll knock as you've found.
> Loosen the locknut and go for 1/8th of a turn at a time until it's good. If you go too far you'll lose the last click of compression adjust and possibly damage the shims.
> 
> The above extra preload will do this already. But you'll also want to bump up the IFP pressure to cope with hard landings. Going to 400psi (and maybe even 500psi) will prevent cavitation on fast impacts like those landings.
> ...


Hi Dougal,

Is this 2017 Version any different inside or is it only the decals?

https://www.bike24.de/p1125949.html


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Hi Dougal,
> 
> Is this 2017 Version any different inside or is it only the decals?
> 
> https://www.bike24.de/p1125949.html


I don't know. I've sold a few but not been inside them to check valving etc.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Bluman8 said:


> Thanks @ktm520.
> 
> The fork is one of my concerns. I run a Maz 350CR (~25% sag) and I'm not convinced they are playing as a team yet, but can't afford a new fork.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're trying to have it as plush as possible. But then in the same sentence saying it saps on climbs.
Personally I'd say you need to up your IPA setting to 2. Or at least activate it when climbing rough.

The IPA is so effective for climbing I do often leave it on 4 for full rides, and can still hammer rough decents with good control. I run my fork very plush off the top.

The harder you push the shock the more it really shines. So don't be worried about using the IPA on full.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Bluman8 said:


> I've got about 35hrs on my Mcleod now, but still haven't settled on setup I'm 100% happy with. But it could just be that I don't seem to really know what I want from the rear shock and just need another opinion.
> 
> Installed on 2013 Reign (26er, 150mm travel)
> I weigh 78kg (~170lbs) fully geared up, 73kg out of the shower.
> ...


Hey Bluman,

I'm far from an expert. So I'll just share a few thoughts. I run mine with a king can in the middle setting on a 27.5 Trance (Mattoc 160mm on the front). I weigh about 95kg geared.

The 90% rebound sound familiar. I too was surprised how close to max rebound I had to run it.

My PSI is quite a bit higher than yours (no use giving exact numbers, my pump is not accurate enough), probably a function of my weight and the king can. I mostly run the IPA from fully closed to 3rd.

I had to get used to the feel of the shock, but after a while you do feel it is very sensitive at the top and doesn't rush through the travel. Might possibly require a tiny bit more effort on a fireroad climb, but it kicks butt on technical climbs and very controlled on the downs.

As a matter of fact I haven't yet been able to get the same sensitivity from the Mattoc at the front as the McLeod in the rear.

As said, I'm no expert. Just learning a lot from the guys posting here.


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

I also find that i nwc to run rebound at about 1/4 then from max. Much less and it's pogoing. The rebound is one thing I'll definitely mod when i get round to custom tuning it. I'm 170lb on a tallboy 2


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I don't know. I've sold a few but not been inside them to check valving etc.


Can you please have a Look at the linkage design of this bike

Vitus Bikes Sommet CRX Suspension Bike 2016 | Chain Reaction Cycles

and tell me if the mcleod will be a good fit and if I need the standard or the King can?
Will it need a reshim at 87 kilos rider weight in that frame? 
Thx : -)


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Can you please have a Look at the linkage design of this bike
> 
> Vitus Bikes Sommet CRX Suspension Bike 2016 | Chain Reaction Cycles
> 
> ...


I haven't got the spare time to go through that right now. But since the original shock has a Debonair can, I would expect it to work better with a king can.

Remember the King Can has middle volume as well as high volume positions.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks @CS645 & @geoffpw. 

I experimented over the weekend with 130 PSI (30% sag). The sensitivity of the shock is just so much nicer. Had to switch to IPA4 for an efficient climb. 

I guess the stickers on my shock for the various IPA settings just messed with my head abit. And I was thinking that they represented the 'manitou designed' situation each IPA setting was for rather than just a suggestion of which situation a rider might use the IPA setting. So I'd be climbing a rough trail in IPA4 and thinking to myself something was wrong with the shock setup cause I should only be using this setting on a fire road or pavement. 

But ignoring the stickers and just thinking of IPA setting as straight compression setting levels and not labeling them for a particular situation (climb, descend etc) made me feel heaps better about how I'm using the shock.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Would you recommend the king can for an intense spider 275? 130 mm travel and the vpp design?


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

nashwillis said:


> Would you recommend the king can for an intense spider 275? 130 mm travel and the vpp design?


I will build up a Spider 275a in the next days. I will test it with the CCDB Coil and with the Mcleod with and without Kingcan.
Theoretically it should be a good fit for the Spider with the Kingcan.

When I get a few rides in I will report how it performs, though unfortunately I dont know if that will be in a few days or a couple of weeks.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

nashwillis said:


> Would you recommend the king can for an intense spider 275? 130 mm travel and the vpp design?


Spyder is moderately progressive (in typical vpp fashion regressive to about the sag point, then progressive) going from a 2.7-2.1 linkage ratio.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/search/label/Intense

A king can at the smaller volume setting would be a good starting place as it offers the most mid stroke support. If you find you are not using full travel with the can at the smaller volume with sage set correctly, then go to the full volume setting.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

Cary said:


> Spyder is moderately progressive (in typical vpp fashion regressive to about the sag point, then progressive) going from a 2.7-2.1 linkage ratio.


It goes from 2.7-2.1 over 80mm of travel, I think thats very progressive, especially considering the type of bike this is.



Cary said:


> A king can at the smaller volume setting would be a good starting place as it offers the most mid stroke support.


Why is that? Shouldnt the Kingcan with the full volume allow you to ride with the highest pressure and therefore give you the best midstroke support as it is fairly linear?


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

nashwillis said:


> Would you recommend the king can for an intense spider 275? 130 mm travel and the vpp design?


Personally I'd suggest just running the stock aircan to start with.
You'll be surprised how well it can cope.

Some vpp designs that are regressive upto the sag point and can benefit from having a lower volume negative chamber to balance best. So this can be done by resetting the aircan when using a hairdryer to get hot air in it.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

badIuck said:


> I will build up a Spider 275a in the next days. I will test it with the CCDB Coil and with the Mcleod with and without Kingcan.
> Theoretically it should be a good fit for the Spider with the Kingcan.
> 
> When I get a few rides in I will report how it performs, though unfortunately I dont know if that will be in a few days or a couple of weeks.


Awesome looking forward to your reviews .


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

scar4me said:


> Personally I'd suggest just running the stock aircan to start with.
> You'll be surprised how well it can cope.
> 
> Some vpp designs that are regressive upto the sag point and can benefit from having a lower volume negative chamber to balance best. So this can be done by resetting the aircan when using a hairdryer to get hot air in it.


I will probably start off with the normal can. I will have to look into resetting the air cab, i probably wouldn't know if it was needed or not though.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

badIuck said:


> It goes from 2.7-2.1 over 80mm of travel, I think thats very progressive, especially considering the type of bike this is.
> 
> Why is that? Shouldnt the Kingcan with the full volume allow you to ride with the highest pressure and therefore give you the best midstroke support as it is fairly linear?


Logically, the large setting would seem to provide the best midstroke support, but Manitou's dyno curves say otherwise. See the attached dyno curve from Manitou that comes with the King Can. Sorry about the quality, the original was a several generation old copy.

View attachment 20160218Mattoc King Can.pdf


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

*eyelet size?*

Just got a new mcleod for my tallboy.
went to install an RWC kit and found that (two of the three) bearings i had slide into the eyelet almost effortlessly - by hand...

A mail to Chris from RWC, who (GREAT SERVICE !!!) suggested a refund and thinks its the shock eyelets that are oversized.
Measuring with a caliper is probably useless (i measured 14.98 mm?) ... as the tolerances for press fit are within microns.

Any ideas?

paging Dougal 

Oren


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Ok,which can size to use here with 90 Kilo rider equipped?

Vitus Sommet 650B 2015 - Linkage Design


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Ok,which can size to use here with 90 Kilo rider equipped?
> 
> Vitus Sommet 650B 2015 - Linkage Design


Looks like your frame is slightly progressive, 2.7-2.55, from sag to bottom. That's not all that progressive. That is only a 5% change. I'd say there is a good chance the SV can will work.

My frame is linear flat. I'm running the sv can with 6.5cc of vol reduction, which is a decent amount.

Keep in mind that air can volume is purely a parameter used to match spring mid/progression to frame LR. Larger volume doesn't always mean more mid support. The main reason I reduced my can volume was to get better mid support and still be able to run a decent amount of sag. With full volume, the amount of pressure required for good mid resulted in sag less than 20%.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

badIuck said:


> I will build up a Spider 275a in the next days. I will test it with the CCDB Coil and with the Mcleod with and without Kingcan.
> Theoretically it should be a good fit for the Spider with the Kingcan.
> 
> When I get a few rides in I will report how it performs, though unfortunately I dont know if that will be in a few days or a couple of weeks.


Have you ridden either one yet?


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

nashwillis said:


> Awesome looking forward to your reviews .


So yesterday I put my Spider together and tried out the different Mcleod configurations on the street and the Kingcan with half volume seems to fit the frame really well.
The normal aircan is supportive enough in mid travel as well though it feels quite harsh off the top and the full volume kingcan seems too linear. I think its because the frames progression kicks in too late and then the mid travel feels really wallowy.
So far I would recommend the Mcleod for the Spider but bunnyhopping around on the street only tells you so much 

Next weekend I should get to try out the CCDB and the Mcleod on some flowy and some rough trails if it doesn't snow again


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I'll do a longer write up later but had my first ride on my McLeod. I'm super impressed, could not ask for more. Came from a semi tuned monarch rt debonair. Feels like I finally have compression support and the high speed rebound is much better matched with my mattoc. Overall really happy with it after first ride. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

How does the IPA adjustment compare to the threshold lever on a Monarch RT3? My RT3 skips rather than absorbing in the pedal (medium) position so it's not really useful for anything other than climbing. Does the IPA system cause the same kind of firm threshold?


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

PhillipJ said:


> How does the IPA adjustment compare to the threshold lever on a Monarch RT3? My RT3 skips rather than absorbing in the pedal (medium) position so it's not really useful for anything other than climbing. Does the IPA system cause the same kind of firm threshold?


Manitou IPA is more like a tune adjustment.
Not threshold.
It just increases the preload on the shimstack, so still has compliance, but increases the damping support across lower speeds.
I can ride mine on 4 on dh runs and not be too fussed . Once it's moving the IPA just means it controls it quicker so less wallow. There isn't a harsh platform.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> Just got a new mcleod for my tallboy.
> went to install an RWC kit and found that (two of the three) bearings i had slide into the eyelet almost effortlessly - by hand...
> 
> A mail to Chris from RWC, who (GREAT SERVICE !!!) suggested a refund and thinks its the shock eyelets that are oversized.
> ...


The official eyelet bore size is 19/32" which is 15.08mm. But every manufacturer runs a different tolerance.

This variation is why I have a steady stream of business making custom shock hardware.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

I just picked up a Mcleod for my Devinci Atlas which replaced a Monarch RT3 (low comp/high reb). Put first ride on it yesterday and this is going to be a good improvement over the RT3.

The Atlas pretty much has flat and fairly high leverage curve/ratio and was wondering if there are volume spacers to get some more ramp-up? Also does the IPA have any effect on the rebound damping? I had to crank the rebound up to 90%. 

Ran IPA full open yesterday and going to try little lower PSI today and set IPA to 2. Will try and find a good setting till it gets broken in.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

In2falling said:


> I just picked up a Mcleod for my Devinci Atlas which replaced a Monarch RT3 (low comp/high reb). Put first ride on it yesterday and this is going to be a good improvement over the RT3.
> 
> The Atlas pretty much has flat and fairly high leverage curve/ratio and was wondering if there are volume spacers to get some more ramp-up? Also does the IPA have any effect on the rebound damping? I had to crank the rebound up to 90%.
> 
> Ran IPA full open yesterday and going to try little lower PSI today and set IPA to 2. Will try and find a good setting till it gets broken in.


What pressure are you running?

Ipa does not affect rebound. Running 90% closed or open? My mcleod is always getting new tunes, but I'm always around 3/8 to a 1/2 of a turn out from full closed.

Manitou developed volume reducers, but had very little demand for them so never released them to the public. Send them an email @ [email protected] and see if they have a set laying around. If not, there are a few other options that can be used. Easiest being o-ring cord


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Running about 195 psi, about the same as I was on RT3 and this seems to feel about right (23-25% sag).

Rebound is 90% closed and had the RT3 75% closed. This was my biggest concern when ordering the Mcleod, was it going to have enough rebound. I have little bit to play with, so should work out. 

Will play around with PSI and different IPA setups, wait for it to break in and then see if I need volume spacers.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

scar4me said:


> It just increases the preload on the shimstack


That sounds to me how the HSC adjust works on most (all?) monotube dampers. The only way I can see that being a LSC adjust at all is if there is basically no free bleed so the IPA effectively stiffens the entire stack and increases damping across the range. Is that how it feels?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

PhillipJ said:


> That sounds to me how the HSC adjust works on most (all?) monotube dampers. The only way I can see that being a LSC adjust at all is if there is basically no free bleed so the IPA effectively stiffens the entire stack and increases damping across the range. Is that how it feels?


Pretty much no mono tube dampers have a have adjustable hsc. In most cases of adjustable hsc, the adjuster puts spring loaded pressure on the the shim stack rather that adjusting preload of the stack.

There is no free bleed in the damper, that is why it shifts the whole curve.


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

nashwillis said:


> Have you ridden either one yet?


I have now ridden the Spider with the Mcleod with all three aircan configurations, with the CCDB coil, as well as a 2016 Monarch RT3 Debonair M/S tune.

The CCDB simply unlocks the Spiders full potential. Setting it up took a long time, the VPP suspension makes setup even more difficult than it is anyways with that shock, but in the end at about 30% sag I had a lot of support through the whole travel. It doesn't bottom out harshly nor does it pack up on fast repetitive hits. It clearly performs even better than the Fox 36 RC2 up front.

The Monarch RT3 Debonair with M/S tune and 2-3 volume reducers worked ok. It gives good support through the whole travel as well feeling responsive while cornering or jumping and doesn't bottom out harshly either. Though the damping is where it performs considerably worse. It feels kind of dead in the rebound even when its setup quite fast and it packs up on repetitive hits such as roots. The faster you go the harsher it becomes. Now it's by no means terrible but its no comparison to the CCDB.

Last is the Mcleod. I didn't really manage to make it fit the Spider. With the Kingcan at half volume and slightly below 20% sag is the only configuration that was actually rideable for me. I had to put it into the stiffest compression setting to make it not feel harsh on big square edge hits or landings because otherwise it still blew through its travel.
The Kingcan with full volume was unrideable I could almost bottom it out with just shifting my weight at 20% sag. The normal aircan had to be ridden at about 30% sag so it doesnt feel harsh on small chatter and fast hits though by running that much sag it bottomed out very easily even with the firmest compression setting.
With the half volume Kingcan the compression and rebound damping did feel a lot better than the Monarch when going fast over roots/chatter etc. but unfortunately the spring curve just doesnt seem to fit the Spider. On every single possible setting I get constant bottom outs. And if setup as rideable as possible at 20% sag the VPP linkage just doesnt come alive.
Its a shame because as I said when just passively floating over roots etc. the damping feels better than the Monarch but as soon as you actively pump or put any kind of force into the bike it blows through its travel.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

badIuck said:


> I have now ridden the Spider with the Mcleod with all three aircan configurations, with the CCDB coil, as well as a 2016 Monarch RT3 Debonair M/S tune.
> 
> The CCDB simply unlocks the Spiders full potential. Setting it up took a long time, the VPP suspension makes setup even more difficult than it is anyways with that shock, but in the end at about 30% sag I had a lot of support through the whole travel. It doesn't bottom out harshly nor does it pack up on fast repetitive hits. It clearly performs even better than the Fox 36 RC2 up front.
> 
> ...


How heavy are you and what pressures were you running?


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

Dougal said:


> How heavy are you and what pressures were you running?


I weigh about 72kg naked and had to run pressures at about 120-140 psi for 20-30% sag depending on which aircan I was using.

On the ccdb i used a 400lb coil spring.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

badIuck said:


> I weigh about 72kg naked and had to run pressures at about 120-140 psi for 20-30% sag depending on which aircan I was using.
> 
> On the ccdb i used a 400lb coil spring.


Just reading back through, it sounds like you'd be hitting wildly different ride frequency with your different can setups. Do you set pressure on frequency the bike bounces at or by sag?

It's pretty obvious the king can at full volume isn't the answer. But I think if you could separate spring rate from damper rate in the tuning you could get a lot closer. I haven't checked out the exact volume change between single can and mid king can. It will be possible to stack orings into the king can to tune the volume. I just need to check which size.

What air can configuration were you running on the DB Air?


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Do you set pressure on frequency the bike bounces at or by sag?


This frequency based setup sounds interesting. Can you point to some description where it is explained and how to do it in practice?


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Just reading back through, it sounds like you'd be hitting wildly different ride frequency with your different can setups. Do you set pressure on frequency the bike bounces at or by sag?
> 
> It's pretty obvious the king can at full volume isn't the answer. But I think if you could separate spring rate from damper rate in the tuning you could get a lot closer. I haven't checked out the exact volume change between single can and mid king can. It will be possible to stack orings into the king can to tune the volume. I just need to check which size.
> 
> What air can configuration were you running on the DB Air?


Not exactly sure what you mean by "bouncing/ride frequency" either but I set the spring rate by firstly setting it up to about 25% sag and then further adjusting it from there by jumping around in the parking lot and then fine tuning it from there by riding various trails and figuring out what feels the best.
I think I am seperating spring rate from damping while tuning since I had to leave the "IPA" at the firmest setting with both aircans anyways and I only adjusted the rebound.

I didnt use a DB air, only coil. The monarchs spring woked pretty good with th Debonair can and 3 rubber bands though, as I stated above.


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

I have now installed three Rockshox "bottomless rings" (fit like a glove) into the Kingcan set at half volume and it feels like it should be a lot better on the trail. I will try it out properly on Tuesday probably.

But how is it possible that the Kingcan at full volume just blows through its travel when using a coil spring on the same frame is fine..?


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

badIuck said:


> I have now installed three Rockshox "bottomless rings" (fit like a glove) into the Kingcan set at half volume and it feels like it should be a lot better on the trail. I will try it out properly on Tuesday probably.
> 
> But how is it possible that the Kingcan at full volume just blows through its travel when using a coil spring on the same frame is fine..?


If you are blowing through travel with a Kingcan then you probably do not need a Kingcan (more air volume), you need less air volume for more progression. A larger air volume is going to give you less ramp-up/less progression, making it easier for it to go through travel.

https://www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/dbair/air-spring-graph.png


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

In2falling said:


> If you are blowing through travel with a Kingcan then you probably do not need a Kingcan (more air volume), you need less air volume for more progression. A larger air volume is going to give you less ramp-up/less progression, making it easier for it to go through travel.
> 
> https://www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/dbair/air-spring-graph.png


I mean the mid travel support, not the ending stroke ramp up.
Somehow on my frame the Kingcan with full volume has way less midstroke support than the Kingcan at half volume(+volume spacers).
The normal can has zero mid travel support as well, just as the full volume Kingcan, but obviously more ending stroke progression.
In my mind the full volume Kincan should have the most midstroke support because it lets me run the highest pressure.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

badIuck said:


> I mean the mid travel support, not the ending stroke ramp up.
> Somehow on my frame the Kingcan with full volume has way less midstroke support than the Kingcan at half volume(+volume spacers).
> The normal can has zero mid travel support as well, just as the full volume Kingcan, but obviously more ending stroke progression.
> In my mind the full volume Kincan should have the most midstroke support because it lets me run the highest pressure.


Mid volume on the king can has the most mistral support. Don't know why, but that is per manitou's own curves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

I've a funny feeling you could've got the exact same feeling on the standard aircan if you just set the negative chamber in a freezer.
This would give you a higher volume air charge in the negative side, and mean that you can run higher pressures without loosing the sag point.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Cary said:


> Mid volume on the king can has the most mistral support. Don't know why, but that is per manitou's own curves.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From the looks of the King Can it increases both the negative and positive air chambers.

https://www.bikerumor.com/2015/09/0...ttoc-lighter-hexloc-thru-axle-pro-tools-more/

The increase in the negative air chamber I think is what increases the mid support.






So badIuck, the King Can and the spacers in positive chamber probably get you where you want with the Mcleod, more mid support and end ramp-up.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

In2falling said:


> The increase in the negative air chamber I think is what increases the mid support.


The higher volume positive chamber increases mid stroke support because it allows you to run higher pressure while still using all the travel. You can't run such high pressure in a low volume air can because the spring rate is too progressive and you won't use all the travel.

The downside of running high pressure in the positive chamber is that air springs at top-out are not zero-force. They're like a coil spring with a lot of pre-load so you need to overcome that pre-load to get them moving. The large negative spring counteracts some of this force so the overall system is balanced or close to balanced at top out and very little force is required to move into the travel.


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## joe213 (Oct 30, 2014)

I am selling my Mcleod rear shock, it has only been ridden twice. I have adjusted a 2 by grip shift to work as a remote. Shock is coming with king can and normal can and the grip shift remote as well as the normal remote. Links to adds below
shock is 7.875x2.25 (7.875x2.00 with travel spacer)

2017 Manitou Mcleod rear shock with lots of extras - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2148366/
*
ADDS HAVE BEEN UPDATED WITH SHOCK SIZE AND PICTURES *


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

joe213 said:


> I am selling my Mcleod rear shock, it has only been ridden twice. I have adjusted a 2 by grip shift to work as a remote. Shock is coming with king can and normal can and the grip shift remote as well as the normal remote. Links to adds below
> shock is 7.875x2.25 (7.875x2.00 with travel spacer)
> 
> 2017 Manitou Mcleod rear shock with lots of extras - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories
> ...


Update your ads to show the shock size


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

In2falling said:


> From the looks of the King Can it increases both the negative and positive air chambers.


I just purchased a KingCan and there is NO port on the negative side. Also, the instructions make it clear that both chambers are positive. You are given the choice to use both chambers to increase the positive chamber by 54% or to insert the seal in the middle to only increase by about half that amount.


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## joe213 (Oct 30, 2014)

Price dropped to $150


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

joe213 said:


> Price dropped to $150


I am interested but need a 200x50, how hard is it to add the spacer?


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## joe213 (Oct 30, 2014)

Sent you a private message


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

scar4me said:


> I've a funny feeling you could've got the exact same feeling on the standard aircan if you just set the negative chamber in a freezer.
> This would give you a higher volume air charge in the negative side, and mean that you can run higher pressures without loosing the sag point.


If that makes such a difference (which sounds plausible) what happens to this shock when it heats up on a longer descent in the summer?


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## joe213 (Oct 30, 2014)

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2148366/

Add changed $145.00 with extras, 7.875x2.25 can be 7.875x2.00 with space I can install before shipping ng


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

badIuck said:


> If that makes such a difference (which sounds plausible) what happens to this shock when it heats up on a longer descent in the summer?


You just end up running a slightly higher main spring pressure to compensate.

It's not much difference when it heats up, but it's subtle enough to have an effect on the first ~5-10mm of stroke. So in the summer it would feel slightly softer off the top.
Or slightly plusher beginning of stroke at the end of a hard run.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I've had my McLeod too hot to hang onto. No issues with the air spring. Rebound got a little faster and that was it.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I have a 2010 reign and the linkage on this bike is terrible. It absolutely blows through travel. 

I have a radium RL on it now, but its packed pretty ridiculously full of grease to stop it from smashing into the bottom out bumper. My van RC was useless on this bike. My monarch RT didnt do well either. 

Is a mcleod going to do better? I need what amounts to extreme bottom out resistance.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> I have a 2010 reign and the linkage on this bike is terrible. It absolutely blows through travel.
> 
> I have a radium RL on it now, but its packed pretty ridiculously full of grease to stop it from smashing into the bottom out bumper. My van RC was useless on this bike. My monarch RT didnt do well either.
> 
> Is a mcleod going to do better? I need what amounts to extreme bottom out resistance.


The standard air can is lower volume them the radium can, so it should be better. I run my regular can with the volume reduced some on my mostly linear transition bandit


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## joe213 (Oct 30, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> Update your ads to show the shock size


I updated the sale price $125.00 (no longer with king can). And the shock size thanks


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

scar4me said:


> You just end up running a slightly higher main spring pressure to compensate.
> 
> It's not much difference when it heats up, but it's subtle enough to have an effect on the first ~5-10mm of stroke. So in the summer it would feel slightly softer off the top.
> Or slightly plusher beginning of stroke at the end of a hard run.


The temperature increase should affect both positive and negative air Spring pressure similarly. So the change in overall spring behaviour should be minor?


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

I just bought an used mcleod and it didn't have bushings, what size do I need for a spider 275? Or can I take the ones out of my xfusion shock? I tried to take them out but don't know how.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nashwillis said:


> I just bought an used mcleod and it didn't have bushings, what size do I need for a spider 275? Or can I take the ones out of my xfusion shock? I tried to take them out but don't know how.


1/2" ID and 1/2" wide. Same as Fox, modern Rockshox and modern X-fusion.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Dougal said:


> 1/2" ID and 1/2" wide. Same as Fox, modern Rockshox and modern X-fusion.


Are these the correct ones?
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83888

Do I need mount kits also?
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=72373&category=136


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nashwillis said:


> Are these the correct ones?
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83888
> 
> Do I need mount kits also?
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=72373&category=136


Nope. Those DU bushings are 12mm ID and 12.5mm wide.

Those mount kits are correct, but the tolerancing works with the factory DU bushings. Different brand DU are slightly different thickness.


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

you need the 15mm version of those: https://www.bike24.com/p2126120.html

and you need two mounting kits, one 12,7*22*6 and one 12,7*30*6

Rock Shox and Fox mounting kits are 12,7 outer diameter as well.

Theoretically the Bushings are the same diameter too, but I found that any other bushings except for the ones Manitou sent with my shock were a bit loose and developed play very quickly.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

I have it installed, how does IPA work? I put it in setting 1 but it doesn't click to any other settings and if I put it in setting 4 and ride it it just clicks back to 1.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> Damper sucked in some air and it's time for a rebuild..


Mine did the same thing, the IPA doesn't work and it's making a sucking noise. What do I need to rebuild? The whole shock or just remove the air can and reinstall?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nashwillis said:


> Mine did the same thing, the IPA doesn't work and it's making a sucking noise. What do I need to rebuild? The whole shock or just remove the air can and reinstall?


Needs a full rebuild. Contact manitou at [email protected] and tell them you think the damper ingested air and your symptoms. They will get you sorted.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Needs a full rebuild. Contact manitou at [email protected] and tell them you think the damper ingested air and your symptoms. They will get you sorted.


Harder riders also need higher IFP pressure to prevent them sucking air. Go straight to 400psi and consider 500psi if you're still sucking air.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Harder riders also need higher IFP pressure to prevent them sucking air. Go straight to 400psi and consider 500psi if you're still sucking air.


Sounds good, I was running 120psi. I couldn't find much info on what psi to run or where to start. I am 176 on a intense spider 275a.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nashwillis said:


> Sounds good, I was running 120psi. I couldn't find much info on what psi to run or where to start. I am 176 on a intense spider 275a.


IFP pressure isn't air-can pressure. The IFP valve is hidden under the 5 point cap on the lower eyelet.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> Needs a full rebuild. Contact manitou at [email protected] and tell them you think the damper ingested air and your symptoms. They will get you sorted.


I contacted them and they said I needed the ball and spring for the IPA it was set up for MILO. They are sending me the ball and spring. The noise they said was normal. 
Who uses the Milo system? Should I install that, I have the lever.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

nashwillis said:


> I contacted them and they said I needed the ball and spring for the IPA it was set up for MILO. They are sending me the ball and spring. The noise they said was normal.
> Who uses the Milo system? Should I install that, I have the lever.


Yes. Also, I recommend Fox's shock/fork remote. It has the same (or a little more) throw and is the best out there for the McLeod. It's also nice that it has 3 settings.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

yogiprophet said:


> Yes. Also, I recommend Fox's shock/fork remote. It has the same (or a little more) throw and is the best out there for the McLeod. It's also nice that it has 3 settings.


Does the Milo remote only allow you to run it in 2 settings?0


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

nashwillis said:


> Does the Milo remote only allow you to run it in 2 settings?0


Yes, only 2


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nashwillis said:


> Does the Milo remote only allow you to run it in 2 settings?0


2 with the Manitou remote. But you can use any other lever to give you in between positions.

Shimano friction shifter would do that.........


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Help....

Got my mcleod (165x38) installed on my tallboy.
Damping is a big step up from the Fox i had there - seems much more in control. i really like the shock.

I am ~90kg R2R, running 130 psi on the shock.
travel on the shock used seems up to ~30mm of the 38...
lowering the pressure to around 110psi did not change much...

ideas?

Oren


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

OrenPerets said:


> Help....
> 
> Got my mcleod (165x38) installed on my tallboy.
> Damping is a big step up from the Fox i had there - seems much more in control. i really like the shock.
> ...


Let all the air out and measure it? Think I read somewhere in here the bottom out bumper is 3mm, so you should measure at least 35mm.

I too have a 165x38 on my Devinci Atlas and really enjoying this shock, feels like a mini coil.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

In2falling said:


> Let all the air out and measure it? Think I read somewhere in here the bottom out bumper is 3mm, so you should measure at least 35mm.
> 
> I too have a 165x38 on my Devinci Atlas and really enjoying this shock, feels like a mini coil.


Will do. I'll report back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> Help....
> 
> Got my mcleod (165x38) installed on my tallboy.
> Damping is a big step up from the Fox i had there - seems much more in control. i really like the shock.
> ...


If you haven't already, try popping off/on the air can to reset the negative spring.
But if your frame is progressive like mine, you may benefit from installing a King Can.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> Help....
> 
> Got my mcleod (165x38) installed on my tallboy.
> Damping is a big step up from the Fox i had there - seems much more in control. i really like the shock.
> ...


Unfortunately they don't have King Cans for the 165x38.

I would remove the air-can and check the shock strokes all the way closed. Should take ~30kg force.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

In2falling said:


> Let all the air out and measure it? Think I read somewhere in here the bottom out bumper is 3mm, so you should measure at least 35mm.
> 
> I too have a 165x38 on my Devinci Atlas and really enjoying this shock, feels like a mini coil.





Dougal said:


> Unfortunately they don't have King Cans for the 165x38.
> 
> I would remove the air-can and check the shock strokes all the way closed. Should take ~30kg force.





OrenPerets said:


> Help....
> 
> Got my mcleod (165x38) installed on my tallboy.
> Damping is a big step up from the Fox i had there - seems much more in control. i really like the shock.
> ...


Got to deflating the shock and compressing it on the bike.
This way i get the full 38mm when compressed....

so... what is this? 
Too much compression damping (up to now i used the third setting from full open, going to try full open tomorrow morning)

Thx
Oren


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

OrenPerets said:


> Got to deflating the shock and compressing it on the bike.
> This way i get the full 38mm when compressed....
> 
> so... what is this?
> ...


Could be too much compression, could also be too much rebound. Try less of both. Not a very progressive bike, so normal can should work. Also, you may just not be hitting big enough stuff to bottom.

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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

In2falling said:


> Cary said:
> 
> 
> > Could be too much compression, could also be too much rebound. Try less of both.
> ...


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

Hej there,

i have been playing with my McLeod recently, but entcountered various problems. 
First and foremost it doesn´t seem to seal properly between damperbody and airpiston/damperhead. Theres always damper fluid leaking slowly into its negative air chamber followed by the damper piston hitting the IFP and the shock reducing its i2i length. 
Second i really don´t like the method shown in manitous rebuild video for setting IFP depth. Does anyone have a better method, or can tell me a measurement i can set it at?
Third it doesn´t feel like the super smooth shock described all over this thread to me. Even with an absolutly air free fresh rebuild i can feel the shock knock a little when transitioning from compression to rebound which is quite annoying. Feels like very low LSC is too excessive. Anyone already tried some different tunes on there, ideally on a linear higher ratio bike?
I am thinking about reducing its i2i length and stroke by 6mm to achieve a better geometry and reduce travel. I´d put a spacer above the damper piston and reduce negative air volume with oil until i can´t feel the shock hitting the spacer when fully extended. Bad idea? Alternative is to put a 6mm spacer inside the negative air chamber, but i loose idependent negative airchamber volume adjustment.
cheers


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

zangg said:


> Hej there,
> 
> i have been playing with my McLeod recently, but entcountered various problems.
> First and foremost it doesn´t seem to seal properly between damperbody and airpiston/damperhead. Theres always damper fluid leaking slowly into its negative air chamber followed by the damper piston hitting the IFP and the shock reducing its i2i length.
> ...


If it's leaking between the damper body and seal head, the seal head oring need replaced. If the shock is new, do a warranty claim.

The Manitou suggested ifp service procedure is the best way to set ifp depth. It helps with the bleed process and is a repeatable way to get consistent ifp depths. Crack the bleed screw and fill the seal head recessed area 2 times for a best results. Some shocks allow for 3 times before the ifp is too high.

Make sure your ifp is red. If it's not, warranty claim.

The knock you feel is the the pistons glide ring having slight play in it. This has been fixed (only a small batch had the issue and most people don't notice it as it's hard to feel while riding, but more noticable on a seat bounce test in a praking lot). Once again, warranty claim if it bothers you.

Put a spacer in the negative chamber to shorten i2i. Manitous negative chamber is not self regulating, so it won't change the function of the spring. If anything, the larger negative volume (depending on the size of the spacer) will give you better sensitivity. I would use something similar to the top out spacer.

I would talk tunes with you as there are many being tested, but I'm not able to give that info out. Earlier in this thread I posted a first gen test tune, you can use that as a starting point if you want to tune it. In my experience, it works pretty good, but go with a wider rebound crossover shim as that tune had fast low speed rebound.

[email protected] if you want to do a warranty claim. They are at sea otter getting ready for new products to be announced, so they may be slow in responding this week.


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

Thanks for your quick reply. 
Going to sea otter is not an option, considering the distance to germany 

But I have contacted our local distributor thanks to your info about updated piston glide rings, cause I definitely feel the knock while riding. My IFP is already red anodized. 

From what i understand, reducing negative air chamber volume increases its pressure in a non self regulating air spring. It is true that in any way the resulting positive-negative chamber balance will increase its sensibility.

Do you plan on posting your information regarding tunes, when they matured to your or manitous liking? In the meantime i´ll play a bit myself, if i am successfull in sourcing shims (seems to be impossible in germany)


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

zangg said:


> Hej there,
> 
> i have been playing with my McLeod recently, but entcountered various problems.
> First and foremost it doesn´t seem to seal properly between damperbody and airpiston/damperhead. Theres always damper fluid leaking slowly into its negative air chamber followed by the damper piston hitting the IFP and the shock reducing its i2i length.
> ...


If you can feel it while riding, it's more likely a loose fitting eyelet bushing/reducer interface then the piston glide ring.

The idea of the spacer in the negative chamber is not to reduce volume, it's to put a physical stop to fully extending. The spacer should be small enough that it actually increases volume. Adding a thick o-ring or a second top out spacer should do the trick nicely.

I'm not sure if I will post the tuning info or not. Only time will tell. The general concept has not strayed too far from the original tune I posted though. It's a great starting point for people


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The piston shims closing can sometimes be felt riding. The quick check is to see if the knocking goes away when IPA is increased.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

To remove the air can, is the manitou tool a must, or can it be done by hand?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

You simply unscrew it by hand. Manitous 3in1 tool is only required to access the damping circuit.
I have already increased IFP pressure to 400 psi, this reduced the knocking slightly.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Thanks !


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

OrenPerets said:


> To remove the air can, is the manitou tool a must, or can it be done by hand?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can use a plumbers wrench and a towel (for protection) to open the can or a strap wrench. It is hard by hand.


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## zangg (Jul 11, 2012)

When its really hard to open the can by hand, i wrap an old tube around it to increase friction and diameter. Never had to use any tools...


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So after two season (1 1/2 of riding) I am thinking it is probably time to rebuild my McLeod.. Anyone know where I can get a seal kit in the US or is that something that I have to order from my LBS? I was looking online last night and seems like places like CRC, Bike24, etc. which are all overseas have them but i could not find from the normal US places like Jenson, Arts, Universal, etc.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gregnash said:


> So after two season (1 1/2 of riding) I am thinking it is probably time to rebuild my McLeod.. Anyone know where I can get a seal kit in the US or is that something that I have to order from my LBS? I was looking online last night and seems like places like CRC, Bike24, etc. which are all overseas have them but i could not find from the normal US places like Jenson, Arts, Universal, etc.


https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83542


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

How weird.. when I was looking for it last night I could not find it for the life of me. I did find a FULL Rebuild kit from BikeParts.com this morning that looks like it included EVERYTHING. 
https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC171378...d-air-shocks?gclid=CJGrjNC3x9MCFYJpfgodK8YAdg

Wondering if the full rebuild is necessary or just the seals?


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## mcbein77 (Dec 28, 2016)

I have a Banshee Spitfire 2017 and I am considering 2 shocks:

-manitou mcleod
-CC Inline

I know that Inline is much more expensive, but has anyone had both and can compare them?

Thanks


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I can only vouch for the McLeod. There is a lot to read about the CC Inline, and it looks like a complicated process to get it set. The McLeod is super easy in that regard.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

mcbein77 said:


> I have a Banshee Spitfire 2017 and I am considering 2 shocks:
> 
> -manitou mcleod
> -CC Inline
> ...


CC is known to have small issues here and there, plenty read about how sensitive/touchy their stuff is and the DBInline seemed to be a bit more plagued with those types of issues when it first came out, though cleaned up now.

If you read back through the thread I believe I saw one or two guys riding it on a spitfire. Best bet is to call/email Manitou tech support and talk with them about the suspension kinematics of your bike and see if they believe it will fit the suspension type.


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

gregnash said:


> CC is known to have small issues here and there, plenty read about how sensitive/touchy their stuff is and the DBInline seemed to be a bit more plagued with those types of issues when it first came out, though cleaned up now.
> 
> If you read back through the thread I believe I saw one or two guys riding it on a spitfire. Best bet is to call/email Manitou tech support and talk with them about the suspension kinematics of your bike and see if they believe it will fit the suspension type.


The Mcleod is far from trouble-free too though and it doesnt fit every frame...the shocks from a couple of people on a German forum, mine included, have developed a weird knocking problem after a few rides. Haven't sent mine to service yet so I dont know what the problem is.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

badIuck said:


> The Mcleod is far from trouble-free too though and it doesnt fit every frame...the shocks from a couple of people on a German forum, mine included, have developed a weird knocking problem after a few rides. Haven't sent mine to service yet so I dont know what the problem is.


Oh yeah, dont take what I was saying as the McLeod was problem free. There are plenty of people on this thread that has said otherwise. It just seems that the DBInline had lots more problems starting out with lots of unhappy customers from the get go, but then again that is internet hearsay so take with a grain of salt.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

badIuck said:


> The Mcleod is far from trouble-free too though and it doesnt fit every frame...the shocks from a couple of people on a German forum, mine included, have developed a weird knocking problem after a few rides. Haven't sent mine to service yet so I dont know what the problem is.


Does the knocking go away with IPA adjustment?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Dougal said:


> Does the knocking go away with IPA adjustment?


Is that the lever adjustment, or add beer until the problem goes away?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Cary said:


> Is that the lever adjustment, or add beer until the problem goes away?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


Take your pick!

The lever adjustment preloads the shims. So if they knock at low settings but not at high then the base adjustment for the shims is too loose. This lets you feel them open and shut. When snug against the piston they open and close without the knock.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

badIuck said:


> The Mcleod is far from trouble-free too though and it doesnt fit every frame...the shocks from a couple of people on a German forum, mine included, have developed a weird knocking problem after a few rides. Haven't sent mine to service yet so I dont know what the problem is.


sometimes the negative pressure needs resetting by removing/reinstalling the air can, may not fix this exact issue, but easy to do.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

This thread started a few years ago but is the Mcleod a good option still in 2017? Looking at this or an RT3 for a giant anthem 29. I have read enough to know that Manitou is legit as a brand. Just curious is this particular model still competitive with other brands offerings? 

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> This thread started a few years ago but is the Mcleod a good option still in 2017? Looking at this or an RT3 for a giant anthem 29. I have read enough to know that Manitou is legit as a brand. Just curious is this particular model still competitive with other brands offerings?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


if the Mcleods airspring fits the characteristics of your frame it's better than the Monarch because the damping is superior in my experience.
The difficulty is finding out if it fits your frame amd if you need the Kingcan or not (probably not).


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> This thread started a few years ago but is the Mcleod a good option still in 2017? Looking at this or an RT3 for a giant anthem 29. I have read enough to know that Manitou is legit as a brand. Just curious is this particular model still competitive with other brands offerings?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


There have been a few improvements made over the years on the inside to improve performance and reliability and keep up with the times. Manitou just doesn't spend the marketing money to show it off.

It's still the only inline rear shock that is legitimately competitive with piggy back shocks performance wise.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

badIuck said:


> if the Mcleods airspring fits the characteristics of your frame it's better than the Monarch because the damping is superior in my experience.
> The difficulty is finding out if it fits your frame amd if you need the Kingcan or not (probably not).


I need the 165x38mm for a Giant Anthem 29. Does that help you determine if it will fit? Or is there more to it? Never messed with shocks or have even the slightest iota of knowledge of where to start.

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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> There have been a few improvements made over the years on the inside to improve performance and reliability and keep up with the times. Manitou just doesn't spend the marketing money to show it off.
> 
> It's still the only inline rear shock that is legitimately competitive with piggy back shocks performance wise.


Thank you. Ive never saw anything bad about it, but also like you said they dont pay for promo.

I found them under 200 new. RS and Fox are about 400 new. So i can get a new shock for the price of a used RT3.

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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> I need the 165x38mm for a Giant Anthem 29. Does that help you determine if it will fit? Or is there more to it? Never messed with shocks or have even the slightest iota of knowledge of where to start.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


My wife has a giant lust (women's version of anthen). It's a really good match tune and air can wise.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> My wife has a giant lust (women's version of anthen). It's a really good match tune and air can wise.


Awesome. Thank you. My gf and I got the Lust and Anthem at same time! She had the 1 it has a Sid and a Monarch, mine has fox evolution ctd front and rear. She went to a hardtail though and I sold the anthem because we were new to sport and didnt realize how sweet the bikes are. I rebought my anthem and now want to upgrade the suspension. A McLeod shock and Tower pro or Marzochi 320lcr. Trying to stay in a budget here.

Other than the shock will i need additional parts to install it?

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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> Awesome. Thank you. My gf and I got the Lust and Anthem at same time! She had the 1 it has a Sid and a Monarch, mine has fox evolution ctd front and rear. She went to a hardtail though and I sold the anthem because we were new to sport and didnt realize how sweet the bikes are. I rebought my anthem and now want to upgrade the suspension. A McLeod shock and Tower pro or Marzochi 320lcr. Trying to stay in a budget here.
> 
> Other than the shock will i need additional parts to install it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


The bottom bushing will need pressed out to install the shock on the bike( giant doesn't use reducing hardware on the shock body side. The top bushing in the fox shock is different than what manitou uses, so you can either buy new reducing hardware or press the bushing out and use the bushing and hardware from the fox.

I have turned into a big Manitou guy, but if it was me, I would call fox and just buy a fit damper from them for around a 100.00.(say the evolution damper is terrible and they will give you a deal) Giant used a weird steerer tube size on your bike and you would have to replace the top head set cup/hardware and stem as well. With the price of that and a new fork, you will come out ahead with just a damper upgrade. The fit dampers are pretty decent and well worth the upgrade.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> The bottom bushing will need pressed out to install the shock on the bike( giant doesn't use reducing hardware on the shock body side. The top bushing in the fox shock is different than what manitou uses, so you can either buy new reducing hardware or press the bushing out and use the bushing and hardware from the fox.
> 
> I have turned into a big Manitou guy, but if it was me, I would call fox and just buy a fit damper from them for around a 100.00.(say the evolution damper is terrible and they will give you a deal) Giant used a weird steerer tube size on your bike and you would have to replace the top head set cup/hardware and stem as well. With the price of that and a new fork, you will come out ahead with just a damper upgrade. The fit dampers are pretty decent and well worth the upgrade.


I already bought the new top bearing and cap last time to mount a fox terralogic when i had the bike last time. Then sold it and put the fox on the gf hardtail. So that and the stem i already have. The thing is that i can upgrade to the fit4 damper in the fork but then i have a nice fork that only works on a Giant. Im going to a different fork because im going to 120 and after i add the fit4 damper and make it 120 thats more than a tower pro or lcr320 that can be used on other bikes also. Like my ss. I want a lighter fork too. The lcr320 is 1600 grams and the evolution ctd is like 1900. My first thought was put the damper. I made a post about that last week or so. After talking to Push they said that i should find a new performance fit4 120 takeoff cheaper than having this fork jazzed up. Which led me to finding the tower pro or lcr320 because they offer fox factory level adjustments and near same weight and cheaper.

The shock Push said throw in trash and find something else. That led to me going on Pinkbike and finding 175-275 used shocks like a RT3. Then i found some german websites where the Mcleod is 200. Read up on it. Totally convinced its what i want. Thanks for the info on bushings. They sell them at the same German website.

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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> The bottom bushing will need pressed out to install the shock on the bike( giant doesn't use reducing hardware on the shock body side. The top bushing in the fox shock is different than what manitou uses, so you can either buy new reducing hardware or press the bushing out and use the bushing and hardware from the fox.
> 
> I have turned into a big Manitou guy, but if it was me, I would call fox and just buy a fit damper from them for around a 100.00.(say the evolution damper is terrible and they will give you a deal) Giant used a weird steerer tube size on your bike and you would have to replace the top head set cup/hardware and stem as well. With the price of that and a new fork, you will come out ahead with just a damper upgrade. The fit dampers are pretty decent and well worth the upgrade.


This! As much as I am a Manitou fanboy if you are on a budget then new stuff is never the way to go. Get the FIT dampers and upgrade yourself and then save your pennies to do a full upgrade this time next year. If you are looking for pure XC type riding on the Anthem then get the Minute (Tower doesnt exist anymore) with the McLeod. Giant uses what they call the "OVERDRIVE" headset which I think is a 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" tapered steerer tube instead of the standard tapered 1 1/8" to 1 1/2". You can get conversion headsets but that is extra investment for you.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> I already bought the new top bearing and cap last time to mount a fox terralogic when i had the bike last time. Then sold it and put the fox on the gf hardtail. So that and the stem i already have. The thing is that i can upgrade to the fit4 damper in the fork but then i have a nice fork that only works on a Giant. Im going to a different fork because im going to 120 and after i add the fit4 damper and make it 120 thats more than a tower pro or lcr320 that can be used on other bikes also. Like my ss. I want a lighter fork too. The lcr320 is 1600 grams and the evolution ctd is like 1900. My first thought was put the damper. I made a post about that last week or so. After talking to Push they said that i should find a new performance fit4 120 takeoff cheaper than having this fork jazzed up. Which led me to finding the tower pro or lcr320 because they offer fox factory level adjustments and near same weight and cheaper.
> 
> The shock Push said throw in trash and find something else. That led to me going on Pinkbike and finding 175-275 used shocks like a RT3. Then i found some german websites where the Mcleod is 200. Read up on it. Totally convinced its what i want. Thanks for the info on bushings. They sell them at the same German website.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


If you are set up a new fork, I would pick the manitou over the marzochhi for sure. Better customer service, better damper, just all around better fork. Not sure how good parts availability is on marzochhi stuff either.

What's your weight?


----------



## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

gregnash said:


> This! As much as I am a Manitou fanboy if you are on a budget then new stuff is never the way to go. Get the FIT dampers and upgrade yourself and then save your pennies to do a full upgrade this time next year. If you are looking for pure XC type riding on the Anthem then get the Minute (Tower doesnt exist anymore) with the McLeod. Giant uses what they call the "OVERDRIVE" headset which I think is a 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" tapered steerer tube instead of the standard tapered 1 1/8" to 1 1/2". You can get conversion headsets but that is extra investment for you.


In my research its cheaper to buy a new fork/shock then upgrade to fit4 and have the shock pushed.

New fork with rebound, compression, lockout, remote. Or a used fit4 or Sid. 300

Fit 4 damper 225
Oil 20
Tools 30
120mm upgrade 100
Remote 100

Then that fork only works on Overdrive and is 1900gms of Fox evolution lipsticked pig.

Pushing the shock, plus their shock body. 305

Mcleod on german sites. Under 200.

Thats why i was asking to pm you about Manitou. Cause i like using sweet stuff that works vs what everyone "thinks" is the best by ads.

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> If you are set up a new fork, I would pick the manitou over the marzochhi for sure. Better customer service, better damper, just all around better fork. Not sure how good parts availability is on marzochhi stuff either.
> 
> What's your weight?


I weigh 170 riding xc in Michigan. The fastest way around the trail is with the wheels on the ground type rider. Weight Weenie lycra type.

The only reason i looked at Marzocchi is they are 300 for last years top model. Manitou i havent seen that cheap. Im going to reach out to these smaller companies Manitou and Suntour and see about sponsorship or something. Grassroots privateer type thing.

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## Boomdocker (Apr 27, 2008)

hey mcleod users

Looking for some help

Currently have a Spech Camber with and old Fox Triad which I'm going to replace with a McCleod

Where its placed on the frame, and with the levers mounted on the underside its quite a tight fit when the bottle is in the bottle cage

So I want to avoid the situation where i buy the McCleod and maybe the IPA lever is protruding too far and thus in contact with a bottle in the cage

Can find a technical drawing on line so I wonder if someone could measure the diameter around where the IPA lever is ie the maximum diameter of the shock. What I am interested in is how far the lever protrudes - see below, marked in red:


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> I weigh 170 riding xc in Michigan. The fastest way around the trail is with the wheels on the ground type rider. Weight Weenie lycra type.
> 
> The only reason i looked at Marzocchi is they are 300 for last years top model. Manitou i havent seen that cheap. Im going to reach out to these smaller companies Manitou and Suntour and see about sponsorship or something. Grassroots privateer type thing.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


Yeah then you should be pretty impressed with the McLeod, I have yet to find a situations where it has not performed greatly. And at your weight you will more than likely never need to upgrade to the King Can.

Mind now that Marzocchi was purchased by FOX at the beginning of last year (i think) and so they are utilizing the same CSR channels.

GL on the sponsorship, know that there are more than a few guys on the boards here that work with Manitou independently (I am not one, no) for feedback on new projects and products. So you never know!


----------



## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

Boomdocker said:


> hey mcleod users
> 
> Looking for some help
> 
> ...


I measured 40mm from the eye center to the outside of the rebound knob, which is outside the IPA lever.
This service video gives you an idea of the dimensions:


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> I already bought the new top bearing and cap last time to mount a fox terralogic when i had the bike last time. Then sold it and put the fox on the gf hardtail. So that and the stem i already have. The thing is that i can upgrade to the fit4 damper in the fork but then i have a nice fork that only works on a Giant. Im going to a different fork because im going to 120 and after i add the fit4 damper and make it 120 thats more than a tower pro or lcr320 that can be used on other bikes also. Like my ss. I want a lighter fork too. The lcr320 is 1600 grams and the evolution ctd is like 1900. My first thought was put the damper. I made a post about that last week or so. After talking to Push they said that i should find a new performance fit4 120 takeoff cheaper than having this fork jazzed up. Which led me to finding the tower pro or lcr320 because they offer fox factory level adjustments and near same weight and cheaper.
> 
> The shock Push said throw in trash and find something else. That led to me going on Pinkbike and finding 175-275 used shocks like a RT3. Then i found some german websites where the Mcleod is 200. Read up on it. Totally convinced its what i want. Thanks for the info on bushings. They sell them at the same German website.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


I love my McLeods. That said, talk to Craig at Avalanche. He can rebuild that shock into a custom valved and tuned shock for about $225.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Is this - Slickoleum Grease legit "slick honey" / slickoleum grease?
Will be used to rebuild my mcleod as well as fork wipers

thx
oren


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

OrenPerets said:


> Is this - Slickoleum Grease legit "slick honey" / slickoleum grease?
> Will be used to rebuild my mcleod as well as fork wipers
> 
> thx
> oren


Not sure but I think that Slick Honey is one brand and Slickoleum is another... so could be. Only ever bought Slick Honey.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

OrenPerets said:


> Is this - Slickoleum Grease legit "slick honey" / slickoleum grease?
> Will be used to rebuild my mcleod as well as fork wipers
> 
> thx
> oren


Same grease, slick honey is just rebranded slickoleum. slickoleum is ususlly cheaper, so probably best to go that route. Manitou uses slickoleum stock.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Thanks greenhash and Mullen.

What suspension fluid is best on the McLeod? The video said '5wt oil'... which I read is not deterministic in terms of cst...

Oren


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

OrenPerets said:


> Thanks greenhash and Mullen.
> 
> What suspension fluid is best on the McLeod? The video said '5wt oil'... which I read is not deterministic in terms of cst...
> 
> ...


Maxima 5wt is stock, which is 15.9 cst. Manitou also likes Maxima RSF 3wt. Anything with a cst between 14-16 should perform fairly well.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

I just picked up a second Mcleod (200x56) for my other bike a few weeks ago and it is working out great. 

But having small minor issue with it loosing like 10PSI of air if it sits for a couple of days and seems like it is loosing few PSI after long rides. 

Took if off yesterday and dunked it in a bucket of water to see if I can find the leak source and could not identity anything.

Has anyone experience the same issue? I had an issue with CCDBA where I had to re-seat the whole schrader valve insert with some teflon tape because it had slow leak.

Going to try removing the schrader valve core and reinstalling that today and maybe remove and reinstall air can.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> Maxima 5wt is stock, which is 15.9 cst. Manitou also likes Maxima RSF 3wt. Anything with a cst between 14-16 should perform fairly well.


Yup this is correct. Zach from Manitou/Hayes (one of their techs that is very active on Instagram) has stated multiple times that they only use Maxima stuff in their products and that is the stuff he likes best personally. Make sure that you if you buy some you get their Bike oil as they also have lots of stuff that is specific for moto-x and may have a slightly different viscosity or cst.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

gregnash said:


> Yup this is correct. Zach from Manitou/Hayes (one of their techs that is very active on Instagram) has stated multiple times that they only use Maxima stuff in their products and that is the stuff he likes best personally. Make sure that you if you buy some you get their Bike oil as they also have lots of stuff that is specific for moto-x and may have a slightly different viscosity or cst.


Thanks

i cannot get maxima locally. are the rockshox fluids essentially the same? which specific one?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

In2falling said:


> I just picked up a second Mcleod (200x56) for my other bike a few weeks ago and it is working out great.
> 
> But having small minor issue with it loosing like 10PSI of air if it sits for a couple of days and seems like it is loosing few PSI after long rides.
> 
> ...


 Not an issue that I have seen yet. Only a couple places that it can leak from, so you are on the right track. If it's not the Schrader valve, it's likely the oring that seals the air can where it threads on.

If you try the water method again, pump it up to 200psi+ first. This will help simulate the spring under load and make any leaks more obvious.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

OrenPerets said:


> Thanks
> 
> i cannot get maxima locally. are the rockshox fluids essentially the same? which specific one?


Not that I know of... You would have to look for a spreadsheet that measures/compares viscosity and CST of different oil variants. I can only get moto-x oil locally so I ordered from Amazon.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

OrenPerets said:


> Thanks
> 
> i cannot get maxima locally. are the rockshox fluids essentially the same? which specific one?


Rock shox started using maxima oils a few years back (used to be torco), so Rock Shox stuff is just rebadged Maxima oils, just slightly more expensive. If you don't mind the extra few bucks, grab some Rock Shox 5wt and you will be good to go.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> Thanks
> 
> i cannot get maxima locally. are the rockshox fluids essentially the same? which specific one?


RS 5wt is ~15 cSt.

I measure all the common shock fluids to check their viscosity. It gets really interesting as some brands *cough*fox*cough* are filling their shocks with different fluids than they claim.

Manitou has used ~15cSt oil in all their fork and shock dampers since 1995. Some other companies still haven't worked out that is the best viscosity for that application.
Manitou has switched from Maxima to Motorex and mostly back to Maxima in that time. I'm not sure who was supplying fluids back in the early days (late 90's).


----------



## ideal world (Jul 23, 2011)

I just got the McLeod and Iam very impressed so far but I need more progression in the banshee rune. 
Did someone found a way to reduce the volume of the (large) air can to improve the progression? I was thinking of putting a piece of a tire tube in it :O


----------



## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

ideal world said:


> I just got the McLeod and Iam very impressed so far but I need more progression in the banshee rune.
> Did someone found a way to reduce the volume of the (large) air can to improve the progression? I was thinking of putting a piece of a tire tube in it :O


You have 2 volume options on the Kingcan.
This is done by moving the Oring inside from the end ridge, to the middle ridge.
Or you could trade me for my STD aircan .


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

You can fit volume reducers inside the second layer too.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


----------



## Mackmountain (May 2, 2016)

I Have a Mcloud with king can in at 50% volume on my Rocky Mountain Instinct 29er for about a month now. Once it was broken in it really came good. Then Dougal sent out his monthly newsletter with a discussion on shock setup with regards to sag vs frequency. Reading through this forum i had been running much higher psi than anyone else to get in the 20-30% sag range which had also got me thinking. Was I doing it wrong? 

I threw all knowledge of shock setup away and started again. Using the frequency method i have gone from 200 to 130psi in the shock with rebound a quarter open. 

The fork has gone from 100 to 80psi with rebound half way and low speed compression fully open (manitou minute expert 130mm fork)

If i now reverse analyse, fork sag is in the 25% range and using full travel. However it doesn't feel soft and wallowly and there's no brake dive. 

The shock really made the biggest difference. All of a sudden the bucking disappeared (rebound used to control it mostly, but not completely) with the rebound in the same setting. And now using all of the travel (was only using 3/4 travel before). I think this is a big reason why the fork dive has disappeared too (shock not wanting to extend under braking). 

The biggest thing my mind was having to fight was a shock sag closer to 40% in the seated position, how can that be right? Rocky Mountain suspension is very progressive so bottoming out still isn't an issue. 

Then I found an explanation that makes sense. Whilst rolling around the lawn standing in the "attack" position i reached down, slid the o ring up the shock and then gently came to a stop and checked the sag. 30% is much better, and is where it should be whilst out of the saddle and heading downhill. 

The bike is now ridiculously stable, the shock will eat everything all day long and the bike now carries speed like never before (pumps out of corners and keeps momentum). I have easily slashed 20 seconds off a trail that used to take 3.40.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Mackmountain said:


> I Then Dougal sent out his monthly newsletter with a discussion on shock setup with regards to sag vs frequency.


Would love to read this

I Cycle so I don't choke people!

Sent from the Beer Cloud


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

TeamRWB said:


> Would love to read this
> 
> I Cycle so I don't choke people!
> 
> Sent from the Beer Cloud


https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/suspension-setup

Here you go:thumbsup:


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Danke

I Cycle so I don't choke people! 

Sent from the Beer Cloud


----------



## MiWolverine (Jun 15, 2009)

I purchased a brand new Mcleod off eBay for $80 after reading through this thread. My bike, a 2012 Fuji Outland, had an older Monarch RT3 that I didn't like the feel of. After installing the Mcleod and giving it a rough setup (not entirely dialed in), I noticed a night and day difference. This shock is quite nice and very plush. I could never get this feel with the Monarch no matter what I did. Thanks for the thread and all the info within!


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

I installed a King Can mid-season last year, and last week noticed the shock seems to be topping out. When I slowed the rebound it reduced the knock but it was still there. With so few miles on the new can and seals, how likely is that the negative chamber issue, needing the can to be removed/reinstalled to reset it?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fsrxc said:


> I installed a King Can mid-season last year, and last week noticed the shock seems to be topping out. When I slowed the rebound it reduced the knock but it was still there. With so few miles on the new can and seals, how likely is that the negative chamber issue, needing the can to be removed/reinstalled to reset it?


Time for a reset.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

fsrxc said:


> I installed a King Can mid-season last year, and last week noticed the shock seems to be topping out. When I slowed the rebound it reduced the knock but it was still there. With so few miles on the new can and seals, how likely is that the negative chamber issue, needing the can to be removed/reinstalled to reset it?


Very likely! It needs relubing after that much time anyway. It seems like the two go hand in hand from my experience


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

fsrxc said:


> I installed a King Can mid-season last year, and last week noticed the shock seems to be topping out. When I slowed the rebound it reduced the knock but it was still there. With so few miles on the new can and seals, how likely is that the negative chamber issue, needing the can to be removed/reinstalled to reset it?


Yes, if there is a negative with the shock, it is this. I find every 6 months, I need to reset the can. Not terribly hard to do but still, when it needs it, it needs it!


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

If Manitou could add some kind of push button operated valve between positive and negative chamber, that would be great. Something like auto-sag valve on specialized, but not affecting air pressure, only to equalize both pressures at given point. Something I can do on my Mattoc by connecting shock pump.

I sold my McLeod because it needed air can reset in worst possible situations, when I had no tools with me, just a day before a big ride. It was usually stuck down, reduced travel to 38-40mm (200x56)


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Very likely! It needs relubing after that much time anyway. It seems like the two go hand in hand from my experience


Are you all using Slickoleum on the air can seals, or oil in the can? (Float Fluid)

Edit: nevermind, found the service manual which says Slickoleum.

Like you said, the seals were pretty dry.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

RoboS said:


> If Manitou could add some kind of push button operated valve between positive and negative chamber, that would be great. Something like auto-sag valve on specialized, but not affecting air pressure, only to equalize both pressures at given point. Something I can do on my Mattoc by connecting shock pump.
> 
> I sold my McLeod because it needed air can reset in worst possible situations, when I had no tools with me, just a day before a big ride. It was usually stuck down, reduced travel to 38-40mm (200x56)


That is weird.... I have been running mine since the beginning of this thread without a service and zero issues. Possibly got one of fluke ones.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

I initially had an issue with the negative chamber not holding air for more then a few rides. I replaced the can seals and haven't had an issue since. 

From what I understand, the biggest issue is premature quad ring wear from users not using enough lube or the wrong lube. The other issue can be users not being clean when doing service and getting dirt on the seals.

The other thing to note from the above comments is that if your shock is getting stuck down, it's likely because the air piston seal being worn, not the air can seal.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> The other thing to note from the above comments is that if your shock is getting stuck down, it's likely because the air piston seal being worn, not the air can seal.


It was not worn. Shock was new, I rode it for 2-3 months but not very often (less than 20km/week) and this happened. In that time shock was also sent to Manitou because it didn't get full travel.

But I must say, that while working, it was probably the best shock I ever ridden. In fact, I was a little dissapointed when I got Monarch Plus RC3 debbonair. But reliability is better, at least in my case.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I've got a McLeod modification which converts the air-can to not only self-balancing positive-negative air pressure. But also gives it a dual stage negative air spring which makes the first half of the stroke feel almost like a coil spring.

I've been riding it on my own bike for about a month. But it's the worst time of year for riding so I need some more miles to test. 

I'll be able to sell modified air-cans for self install when I'm ready. Or I can modify your own King Cans.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Only king cans? No 165x38's?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> Only king cans? No 165x38's?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sadly no. Because I've got those on FSR's here.


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Dougal said:


> I've got a McLeod modification which converts the air-can to not only self-balancing positive-negative air pressure. But also gives it a dual stage negative air spring which makes the first half of the stroke feel almost like a coil spring.
> 
> I've been riding it on my own bike for about a month. But it's the worst time of year for riding so I need some more miles to test.
> 
> I'll be able to sell modified air-cans for self install when I'm ready. Or I can modify your own King Cans.


2 holes @quadring width+1mm in inner [email protected] ~topout position ?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sine waiver said:


> 2 holes @quadring width+1mm in inner [email protected] ~topout position ?


Do that and let me know how you get on.


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Dougal said:


> Do that and let me know how you get on.


Too much neg volume?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sine waiver said:


> Too much neg volume?


Many problems. But go ahead. I can sell you a new can and new seals afterwards.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


----------



## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Dougal said:


> Many problems. But go ahead. I can seI ll you a new can and new seals afterwards.
> 
> Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


Trade secret hey?


----------



## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

gregnash said:


> That is weird.... I have been running mine since the beginning of this thread without a service and zero issues. Possibly got one of fluke ones.


And I got mine because of your high recommendation for the frame we run. So far so good.

I Cycle so I don't choke people!

Sent from the Beer Cloud


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sine waiver said:


> Trade secret hey?


Yep.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


----------



## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Dougal said:


> Yep.
> 
> Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


Fair call.
I still don't think getting a seal past a port is a major problem (with the appropriate hole chamfer and debur). Plenty of prior art to show the way on that aspect.
I'll look forward to seeing your solution. might even get me to open the wallet.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Dougal said:


> I've got a McLeod modification which converts the air-can to not only self-balancing positive-negative air pressure. But also gives it a dual stage negative air spring which makes the first half of the stroke feel almost like a coil spring.
> 
> I've been riding it on my own bike for about a month. But it's the worst time of year for riding so I need some more miles to test.
> 
> I'll be able to sell modified air-cans for self install when I'm ready. Or I can modify your own King Cans.


Want!

Keep us updated.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I've got a McLeod modification which converts the air-can to not only self-balancing positive-negative air pressure. But also gives it a dual stage negative air spring which makes the first half of the stroke feel almost like a coil spring.
> 
> I've been riding it on my own bike for about a month. But it's the worst time of year for riding so I need some more miles to test.
> 
> I'll be able to sell modified air-cans for self install when I'm ready. Or I can modify your own King Cans.


Count me in.
What is the price for the whole can and what for a modification?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Count me in.
> What is the price for the whole can and what for a modification?


I'll get onto this next week. This week has been a bit mental.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

bansaiman said:


> Count me in.
> What is the price for the whole can and what for a modification?


I might be interested as well.


----------



## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Interested here too! 

Only way I can visualize this is that your using the middle king can oring position.
Then allowing the 2nd king can air chamber to equalize with the negative by drilling a bypass port on the inside.
This would "cut-off" the chamber as the main air piston extended past the port, and allow the chamber to equalize with the main air chamber. Then on the next compression it would equalize over to the negative chamber.
This would give the 2stage negative volume your describing .

I'm more than happy with my current McLeod's, but always nice to look for improvements.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I'll try to get this sorted in the next few weeks. Appreciate the interest.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

So I have about 2,700 miles on my McLeod. It still works great but I am sure that some preventative maintenance, new seals, oil change are overdue. Question is, should I do it myself or send it out? If I send it out, who is good? I live in Massachusetts.

Thanks!


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Prophet Julio said:


> So I have about 2,700 miles on my McLeod. It still works great but I am sure that some preventative maintenance, new seals, oil change are overdue. Question is, should I do it myself or send it out? If I send it out, who is good? I live in Massachusetts.
> 
> Thanks!


Don't believe that Manitou Head Quarters is far from you so I would bet you could send it there... Not sure on the US maintenance facilities but SmithTech is Canada which he is one of their suspension design engineers as well if I remember correctly. Mine is going to go out for service this winter for sure... put over 700 miles on it last season of riding, hard enough riding to destroy the 34t ring on my PRAXIS cassette to the point where no chain would stay on it. Partially my fault as I only had two chains on it in that 700 miles.


----------



## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Gentlemen,

Where in the United States can I find this shock for a good price? (<288) I can hardly find any online sellers. Last time I tried to get a Manitou part via LBS, there was a whole lot of work to call nearly a dozen nearby bike stores, only to have just one barely be able to get the part with lots of shipping and delays and me having to tell them exactly what the part is and etc. Don't want to go thru that again. Why does Manitou make it difficult for me to give them money in exchange for their products?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

beanbag said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Where in the United States can I find this shock for a good price? (<288) I can hardly find any online sellers. Last time I tried to get a Manitou part via LBS, there was a whole lot of work to call nearly a dozen nearby bike stores, only to have just one barely be able to get the part with lots of shipping and delays and me having to tell them exactly what the part is and etc. Don't want to go thru that again. Why does Manitou make it difficult for me to give them money in exchange for their products?


Any shop can order Manitou products through QBP or BTI. If they can't then they simply aren't trying.

Can't help you with the price though.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

beanbag said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Where in the United States can I find this shock for a good price? (<288) I can hardly find any online sellers. Last time I tried to get a Manitou part via LBS, there was a whole lot of work to call nearly a dozen nearby bike stores, only to have just one barely be able to get the part with lots of shipping and delays and me having to tell them exactly what the part is and etc. Don't want to go thru that again. Why does Manitou make it difficult for me to give them money in exchange for their products?


https://takeahikeshop.com/products/...dnivhsJ_JsSf5qriHxJ6Cva6qUyLzcdZ3kaAoKZ8P8HAQ

Not US, but people have been buying from here or crc

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy...PSc1O65bZt4Y2F25co2m0jaPDSJTJV7Sd8aAp4n8P8HAQ


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Double Negative mods will be a bit furthur away. I'm still modifying and testing for reliablility. Also need to make some tooling to do this properly.


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

mullen119 said:


> Not an issue that I have seen yet. Only a couple places that it can leak from, so you are on the right track. If it's not the Schrader valve, it's likely the oring that seals the air can where it threads on.
> 
> If you try the water method again, pump it up to 200psi+ first. This will help simulate the spring under load and make any leaks more obvious.


Re-dunked it with higher PSI and found the leak around air can seal. Lightly coated threads and oring with silicon grease and it's all good.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

beanbag said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Where in the United States can I find this shock for a good price? (<288) I can hardly find any online sellers. Last time I tried to get a Manitou part via LBS, there was a whole lot of work to call nearly a dozen nearby bike stores, only to have just one barely be able to get the part with lots of shipping and delays and me having to tell them exactly what the part is and etc. Don't want to go thru that again. Why does Manitou make it difficult for me to give them money in exchange for their products?


Look for the user Dirtmerchant. You will find him on the turner and Knolly boards. He will get you the the shock for a very competitive price. I bought my shock from him.

Dirt Merchant Bicycles 
http://www.dirtmerchantbicycles.com


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Check out this store. They are right down the road from Hayes and work closely with them.
When I needed hard to find parts for my Sun Ringle wheels they got them for me pretty quickly.
https://www.benscycle.com


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## ideal world (Jul 23, 2011)

Dougal said:


> You can fit volume reducers inside the second layer too.
> 
> Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


what do you mean with second layer? Where to get volume reducers?



scar4me said:


> You have 2 volume options on the Kingcan.
> This is done by moving the Oring inside from the end ridge, to the middle ridge.
> Or you could trade me for my STD aircan .


what is a STD aircan?

is it possible to put some additional oil through the main piston in the large volume chamber to get more progression?


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

ideal world said:


> what do you mean with second layer? Where to get volume reducers?
> 
> what is a STD aircan?
> 
> is it possible to put some additional oil through the main piston in the large volume chamber to get more progression?


STD Standard ;-)
I would rather take shock grease


----------



## hectornz (Mar 15, 2015)

I brought one of these from chain reaction (was almost double the price locally)

Brought in early April rode once and it was perfect. 

Rode for the 2nd time yesterday (have been overseas hence bike hasnt been touched and maybe that caused the issue?) and there was a very noticeable top out clunk (for example when you bunny hop) unless you have rebound on full slow.

Running 150 psi.

I assume I need to reset the negative air? Is there guide on how to do this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

hectornz said:


> I brought one of these from chain reaction (was almost double the price locally)
> 
> Brought in early April rode once and it was perfect.
> 
> ...


Release the air presszre completely, unthread the aircan,pull it of and put it on again....DONE! 
Always push the can over the body. Else the threads canbe damaged as it is always Being pushed away from the shock Body


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

hectornz said:


> I brought one of these from chain reaction (was almost double the price locally)


The difference between RRP with GST and prostituting stuff slightly above or even below cost.

We don't discount new product but you're welcome to haggle with your local shop who we can supply. We offer exceptional service and backup to make up for it.


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## hectornz (Mar 15, 2015)

bansaiman said:


> Release the air presszre completely, unthread the aircan,pull it of and put it on again....DONE!
> Always push the can over the body. Else the threads canbe damaged as it is always Being pushed away from the shock Body


Great... will try this. Will post if it solves the issue

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hectornz (Mar 15, 2015)

Dougal said:


> The difference between RRP with GST and prostituting stuff slightly above or even below cost.
> 
> We don't discount new product but you're welcome to haggle with your local shop who we can supply. We offer exceptional service and backup to make up for it.


I didn't realise you the nz distributor. Might have ordered directly given your obvious knowledge

However the price difference between chain reaction and the local nz bike shops on most bike products is often double... makes it hard to support the lbs particularly given shipping from chain reaction / wiggle is only 5 days and they have a liberal return/warranty process

I am confident if I can't can solve the issue with the shock that chainreaction would quickly deal with it...but maybe I'm being overly optimistic!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hectornz (Mar 15, 2015)

hectornz said:


> Great... will try this. Will post if it solves the issue
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


FYI

Did the above and didn't solve the issue so back it goes under warranty

Disappointing given it had been ridden only twice

Buyers should be aware that the good performance and low price may come at the cost of reliability (a full read of this thread supports this contention).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

hectornz said:


> FYI
> 
> Did the above and didn't solve the issue so back it goes under warranty
> 
> ...


Send it to me and I'll sort it under warranty:
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/service/service-booking-form

We check and sort everything before it goes to the customer. It's the difference between a warehouse that ships boxes and a company that knows how to setup suspension.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

hectornz said:


> FYI
> 
> Did the above and didn't solve the issue so back it goes under warranty
> 
> ...


Actually, it is great performance at a great price with the service 2 times per year at home versus once a year sent away.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

This ^^^ I have been super happy with mine. No issues.


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## hectornz (Mar 15, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Send it to me and I'll sort it under warranty:
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/service/service-booking-form
> 
> We check and sort everything before it goes to the customer. It's the difference between a warehouse that ships boxes and a company that knows how to setup suspension.


Wow that is a very kind offer . Thank you

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hectornz (Mar 15, 2015)

Vespasianus said:


> Actually, it is great performance at a great price with the service 2 times per year at home versus once a year sent away.


I hope you are right !

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Anybody know when Manitou will have a trunnion mount version? When I asked them, they said that they'll be one, but not when.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

beanbag said:


> Anybody know when Manitou will have a trunnion mount version? When I asked them, they said that they'll be one, but not when.


Are you asking about the new metric trunnions? Or are you reviving an old LTS?


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

new


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Referring to your 2 stage neg chamber. 
Dies it become bigger or Do you somehow maanage to make it smaller? And why? 
After how much percent of travel does the second chamber kick in?


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Nvm


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Referring to your 2 stage neg chamber.
> Dies it become bigger or Do you somehow maanage to make it smaller? And why?
> After how much percent of travel does the second chamber kick in?


Sorry, but that's classified.


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## hectornz (Mar 15, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Send it to me and I'll sort it under warranty:
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/service/service-booking-form
> 
> We check and sort everything before it goes to the customer. It's the difference between a warehouse that ships boxes and a company that knows how to setup suspension.


Quick update - received back from Dougal quickly and rode for first time today. Everything was perfect.

Apparently the issue was to do with the negative air quad ring being out of spec

Thanks again for sorting this out Dougal. Will be sending you all my shocks / forks for their annual service going forward !

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Is there a lever or grip shift that uses more than 2 settings on the IPA?


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

I found the quote below about a fox CTD shock, I am wanting to have the ability to have the remote select more than 2 settings.

I wonder how far away clicks are in the McLeod

"I still want to try the gripshifter mod though. I have now measured the travel of the CTD wire. It is exactly 0.7 cm from C to T, and 0.7 cm from T to D. Total travel is 1.4 cm. 

Any idea if a front derailleur shifter (e.g. Shimano or SRAM) has the same 7mm pitch? I have found in Wikipedia: "a typical Shimano (2:1), 7-speed shifter changes the cable length by 2.9mm between each gear, while a similar 7-speed SRAM (1:1) shifter changes the cable length by 4.5mm", but I couldn't find any info for front shifters."


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

OK guys, Im currently on a bike with a 2.4:1 leverage ratio. Im a big rider (295lbs ready to ride). Im currently on a RS monarch RT3 debonair and its HORRIBLE. I have to run about 325 psi with bands in both positive and negative chambers to get 30% or less sag, and I might as well be riding a hard tail at that point.

I realize Im a big dude, but there has to be a shock out there that will net me less than 30% sag and still get some usable action.

So, with that said, do you guys think this one might be a winner? Or perhaps Im just stuck and might as well go back to a hard tail at this weight.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Debonair shocks have the negative chamber equalization dimple higher in the travel than other shocks. Therefore the "normal" sag is also higher. In my experience 35% sag is ok for Debonair. If you need lower sag because of the ground clearance or pedalling efficiency then Debonair is not good. And when you fill the positive chamber with tuning bands you will get "virtual hardtail".


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

arnea said:


> Debonair shocks have the negative chamber equalization dimple higher in the travel than other shocks. Therefore the "normal" sag is also higher. In my experience 35% sag is ok for Debonair. If you need lower sag because of the ground clearance or pedalling efficiency then Debonair is not good. And when you fill the positive chamber with tuning bands you will get "virtual hardtail".


yes, I found this out after the fact (because this is the one thing I didnt research to whits end)

at 35% sag my already low BB is nearly impossible to ride here due to pedal strikes in our technical, narrow single track. Just too many roots and right turns that you NEED to pedal in (yes, I could ratchet like no other, but dont think I can keep enough momentum to do that)

So do you think this shock would be a better alternative? I also have a standard can that will be here today that I can try out before purchasing another. But I have been told by a few to check this shock out as it just "that good"


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Mcleod is in my wishlist. I have Debonair RT3 that I tuned myself and that feels good. But based on the experience of others who went from tuned Monarch to Mcleod I think Mcleod will be better. And I think that the compression control in Mcleod is done the right way - you control the preload of the HSC. If you like you can have linear shock. Monarch has heavily preloaded HSC and you can control the bypass. It's ok if you want lockout and pedalling platform, but the "open" position gives you only "simulated" linear feel. Reshimmed Monarch with more linear main stack will feel much better, but the compression control will then be basically useless.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

R_Pierce said:


> yes, I found this out after the fact (because this is the one thing I didnt research to whits end)
> 
> at 35% sag my already low BB is nearly impossible to ride here due to pedal strikes in our technical, narrow single track. Just too many roots and right turns that you NEED to pedal in (yes, I could ratchet like no other, but dont think I can keep enough momentum to do that)
> 
> So do you think this shock would be a better alternative? I also have a standard can that will be here today that I can try out before purchasing another. But I have been told by a few to check this shock out as it just "that good"


Dougal is going to be the one to answer this, or if you are instagram then look up Zac Smith (Smithtech) who is an engineer and tuning specialist for Manitou and he can give you a better idea. Ultimately at your size you are going to start being in the coil-sprung territory for most bikes... What bike is it that you are currently riding?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

gregnash said:


> Dougal is going to be the one to answer this, or if you are instagram then look up Zac Smith (Smithtech) who is an engineer and tuning specialist for Manitou and he can give you a better idea. Ultimately at your size you are going to start being in the coil-sprung territory for most bikes... What bike is it that you are currently riding?


The bike is an Ican P8 (Asia open mold frame). Very similar geometry to a Transition Smuggler. I'll look him up on IG as well! Thank you!!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

R_Pierce,

My brother is heavier than you and has been riding a McLeod on a first gen Niner RIP9 RDO. The spring has been working well for him and the leverage ratio is close (at sag) to what you are riding. At your weight, anything you ride will need a revalve.

Good luck finding a coil spring rate high enough for a 300lb rider.

You can go up to 350psi on the debonair. Try to hit 30% without any rings in the negative chamber. Reducing the negative makes it easier to get less sag, but it also kills the shape of the initial spring curve hurting sensitivity. You could also use more IFP pressure for bottom support.

All that being said, I think you would like the McLeod better, even the stock tune.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

gregnash said:


> Dougal is going to be the one to answer this, or if you are instagram then look up Zac Smith (Smithtech) who is an engineer and tuning specialist for Manitou and he can give you a better idea. Ultimately at your size you are going to start being in the coil-sprung territory for most bikes... What bike is it that you are currently riding?


Thanks for that! Sent Zac a message this morning and he is going to see what he has on hand and get back to me tomorrow.

I also got a response from dirtlabs. Sent them some information they were looking for and am awaiting a response from them tomorrow as well.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Been looking and can't seem to find an answer. Looking at putting a McLeod on a Santa Cruz Bronson, Gen 1. It has the typical regressive/progressive VPP suspension curve, but is overall pretty flat (leverage ratio is 2.45, rising to 2.65, then back to 2.45). Is the King Can the way to go in this, or the standard can?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Cary said:


> Been looking and can't seem to find an answer. Looking at putting a McLeod on a Santa Cruz Bronson, Gen 1. It has the typical regressive/progressive VPP suspension curve, but is overall pretty flat (leverage ratio is 2.45, rising to 2.65, then back to 2.45). Is the King Can the way to go in this, or the standard can?


From my reading, we need more information. If you are a lighter rider I think you will find it works better (similar to the debonair). How much do you weigh?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

R_Pierce said:


> From my reading, we need more information. If you are a lighter rider I think you will find it works better (similar to the debonair). How much do you weigh?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Fast response. Rider is 170 pounds. He is having the normal issues with the stock fox, have to run less than optimal sag or blows through the travel.

Thanks


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Cary said:


> Fast response. Rider is 170 pounds. He is having the normal issues with the stock fox, have to run less than optimal sag or blows through the travel.
> 
> Thanks


He should be fine with either shock. But let's wait for some of these other guys to chime in.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Cary said:


> Been looking and can't seem to find an answer. Looking at putting a McLeod on a Santa Cruz Bronson, Gen 1. It has the typical regressive/progressive VPP suspension curve, but is overall pretty flat (leverage ratio is 2.45, rising to 2.65, then back to 2.45). Is the King Can the way to go in this, or the standard can?


I've replaced the fox (factory) on my tallboy (Vpp, somewhat similar curve) with mcleod, regular can.
i weigh ~200lbs r2r.

regular can worked just fine for me. i also run enduro roller bearing. super smooth and controlled ride.

Oren


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

OrenPerets said:


> I've replaced the fox (factory) on my tallboy (Vpp, somewhat similar curve) with mcleod, regular can.
> i weigh ~200lbs r2r.
> 
> regular can worked just fine for me. i also run enduro roller bearing. super smooth and controlled ride.
> ...


Thanks. Did it help the midstroke over the stock fox?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Just installed mine last night and took it out for a ride today and wow, I'm amaze on how good it responds but did noticed once in awhile that you could hear it, like a swoosh sound but only happened when I was hitting deep gully. PSI set at 120 and running in Setting 1 and rebound set 50%
Is that sound normal?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Nash04 said:


> Just installed mine last night and took it out for a ride today and wow, I'm amaze on how good it responds but did noticed once in awhile that you could hear it, like a swoosh sound but only happened when I was hitting deep gully. PSI set at 120 and running in Setting 1 and rebound set 50%
> Is that sound normal?


I'm going to say yes. I notice my X-Fusion McQueen does this as well on fast/deep compression. I won't have my McLeod until later in the week.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Nash04 said:


> Just installed mine last night and took it out for a ride today and wow, I'm amaze on how good it responds but did noticed once in awhile that you could hear it, like a swoosh sound but only happened when I was hitting deep gully. PSI set at 120 and running in Setting 1 and rebound set 50%
> Is that sound normal?


Yup a fairly normal sound that all of us hear. As it breaks in you will hear it less but it will always be there. What is your riding weight to be running at 120psi? I am 185 (195 with full kit) and run anywhere from 90-110psi MAX with rebound set a little faster than you on my Thumper (Stumpy FSR clone).


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

Cary said:


> Thanks. Did it help the midstroke over the stock fox?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


I put a mclead on on a TB 2 over a year ago - SOooooo much better than the Fox. Much more time spent in the midstroke (i.e. doesn't blow through it) and much more smooth over chatter - rocks n roots n stuff. I'm using the standard can and standard tune - I thought I'd need to tune it, but it's been fine. I'm 170-175 riding weight. I do find I need to reset the neg. spring every few rides to keep it at it's best (takes 5 mins, and can do on the bike, so no biggie)


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Cary said:


> Thanks. Did it help the midstroke over the stock fox?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


Yes it did. support is just fine, and its very plush.

Oren


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nash04 said:


> Just installed mine last night and took it out for a ride today and wow, I'm amaze on how good it responds but did noticed once in awhile that you could hear it, like a swoosh sound but only happened when I was hitting deep gully. PSI set at 120 and running in Setting 1 and rebound set 50%
> Is that sound normal?


That's the sound of oil going through shims. Only the best suspension does that.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

About 205 with my backpack. Been playing the pressure and so far 120 is working for me.


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## GregReierson (Aug 17, 2017)

Great


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## hurck (Apr 26, 2012)

gregnash said:


> Yup a fairly normal sound that all of us hear. As it breaks in you will hear it less but it will always be there. What is your riding weight to be running at 120psi? I am 185 (195 with full kit) and run anywhere from 90-110psi MAX with rebound set a little faster than you on my Thumper (Stumpy FSR clone).


Unless you have the same bike comparing pressure in the shock is rather useless. I run about 155 psi and I'm +/- 210lbs but I ride a banshee which has a whole other linkage system than your bike.
And aside from the different linkage designs and leverage curves there's personal preference, so that other rider could still run a totally different setup.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Time for new bushings for my mcleod. Any recommendations? 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

croakies said:


> Time for new bushings for my mcleod. Any recommendations?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Fox Igus bushings work great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Cary said:


> Fox Igus bushings work great.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why not upgrade to needle bearings from RWC?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

For me at least:

1) Cost- Fox igus bushings are $15 per end for the kit and replacement bushings are $4 per end when they wear out. The needle bearings run $20-40 per end. 
2) Effectiveness- How much of an improvement needle bearings make is subject to debate. Even enduro advocates say most of the benefit is only on the end of the shock where there is significant rotation, and there are only some applications where this movement is significant. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Alright another question that I will post here publicly so as to not bother any one person. 

Through the help of a couple here, and from reading the posts I see that the McLeod uses 8mm and 10mm ID shims. 

If a person was looking to buy an assortment of shims to play around with the shim stack, which OD and thickness would you recommend getting?

Let's say for 265+ pound riders.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

Cary said:


> Fox Igus bushings work great.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had a whole back and forth with Answer and on this thread on this topic. Fox Igus bearings did not work well for me (lower mount on a SC TB 2c) - they have a barely perceptible play right from new and this rapidly amplifies to be unacceptable. On measuring the eyelet, the Mcleod is fractionally larger than my foxshock and so the bearing is a looser fit...therefore, less compression and more play when assembled. I ended up with DU bushings and pins - even then it's not perfect (again barely perceptible play from new), but they're more tolerant of this so don't wear out as fast. i will try needle bearings next time - since I get to replace the bushing a couple times a year, at least I get to play 

I did wonder if my shock was a manufacturing duffer, but Answer assured me that the slightly large eyelet was within spec. I've learned to live with the faint knock,but it does irk me!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

geoffpw said:


> I had a whole back and forth with Answer and on this thread on this topic. Fox Igus bearings did not work well for me (lower mount on a SC TB 2c) - they have a barely perceptible play right from new and this rapidly amplifies to be unacceptable. On measuring the eyelet, the Mcleod is fractionally larger than my foxshock and so the bearing is a looser fit...therefore, less compression and more play when assembled. I ended up with DU bushings and pins - even then it's not perfect (again barely perceptible play from new), but they're more tolerant of this so don't wear out as fast. i will try needle bearings next time - since I get to replace the bushing a couple times a year, at least I get to play
> 
> I did wonder if my shock was a manufacturing duffer, but Answer assured me that the slightly large eyelet was within spec. I've learned to live with the faint knock,but it does irk me!


McLeod eyelets are all the same. These are the first shocks I've found where that's the case. Fox usually have eyelets that measure differently on each end and require different tolerance pins to fit and work correctly.

The variation in shock eyelet diameters from brand to brand (and even within brand) is such that I keep 5 different grades of pin diameter in stock and still have to make/machine pins outside that. You will feel 0.02mm as perceptible knock.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Thanks for the input all. Not sure how much longer I'll be on this frame for so I think I'm going to give the lower cost fox igus a shot. Has anyone else had issues with igus and mcleod? 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Any heavy riders using this shock? It was recommended to me so I'm reading up on it to see if it will fit my needs. I'm 265 pounds...275-ish riding weight. Bike is the DiamondBack Release. Trying to figure out if this shock will work better for me than the RockShox Monarch RT3 DebonAir that comes stock on the Release. Thoughts? 

And I'm going back to read more pages in this thread to see what's been going on in the last couple years that the thread has existed.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Cary said:


> For me at least:
> 
> 1) Cost- Fox ...replacement bushings are $4 when they wear out. needle bearings run $20-40 per end.
> 2) Effectiveness- How much of an improvement needle bearings make is subject to debate. Even enduro advocates say most of the benefit is only on the end of the shock where there is significant rotation, and there are only some applications where this movement is significant.
> ...


Replacement bearings go at ~10$ a pop. from RWC. you would be amazed at the difference.
if just one side moves on your bike, you should do this side. on my tallboy it was night and day difference.

Oren


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Nubster said:


> Any heavy riders using this shock? It was recommended to me so I'm reading up on it to see if it will fit my needs. I'm 265 pounds...275-ish riding weight. Bike is the DiamondBack Release. Trying to figure out if this shock will work better for me than the RockShox Monarch RT3 DebonAir that comes stock on the Release. Thoughts?
> 
> And I'm going back to read more pages in this thread to see what's been going on in the last couple years that the thread has existed.


Me. But I gave you my opinion in the other thread.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## BikesandWind (Aug 31, 2017)

Hi Guys, been running my McLeod for 4 months now with a king can from the start. A few weeks ago it developed a knock, which I see is not too uncommon. I cannot find the cause. Reset the negative chamber and new bushings but no luck. The new bushings don't seem to have any play problems like others have mentioned.
Video here if you can hear it?




Cheers,


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

BikesandWind said:


> Hi Guys, been running my McLeod for 4 months now with a king can from the start. A few weeks ago it developed a knock, which I see is not too uncommon. I cannot find the cause. Reset the negative chamber and new bushings but no luck. The new bushings don't seem to have any play problems like others have mentioned.
> Video here if you can hear it?
> 
> 
> ...


Where does the IPA lever sit when wide open? The most common cause of knock is the screw that sets the IPA open stop backs out a few turns and lets the IPA collar move away from the shims, letting them knock between open and closed.

To check if this is the case, crank the IPA up a notch or two and see if the knocking stops.


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## BikesandWind (Aug 31, 2017)

Knock is definitely louder when fully open, but still there when closed. Picture below is fully open. There is a bit of play with the lever moving up and down, is this normal?


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

This is my third ride on mine and noticed yesterday that I needed to add air even though it was service last Friday and also noticed if I ride through a gully that's more than 3 feet deep then it bottoms out and you can feel a knock when it does. My Fox 34 never loses air and doesn't bottom out through the same gully.

My weight is about 210 lbs with backpack and air pressure is at 110 PSI.

How do you release the negative pressure?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Nash04 said:


> This is my third ride on mine and noticed yesterday that I needed to add air even though it was service last Friday and also noticed if I ride through a gully that's more than 3 feet deep then it bottoms out and you can feel a knock when it does. My Fox 34 never loses air and doesn't bottom out through the same gully.
> 
> My weight is about 210 lbs with backpack and air pressure is at 110 PSI.
> 
> How do you release the negative pressure?


The negative pressure is set when the air can is put on the shock. This particular shock does not have a separate negative air chamber that feeds from the positive. I have also noticed that mine seems to be losing air each ride. I'm going to double check it again this morning.

I have yet to have it bottom out though! And I'm 295lbs.

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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

How do you relieve the negative pressure and is it necessary?

Thanks


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Nash04 said:


> How do you relieve the negative pressure and is it necessary?
> 
> Thanks


Remove the can. And no.

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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

BikesandWind said:


> Knock is definitely louder when fully open, but still there when closed. Picture below is fully open. There is a bit of play with the lever moving up and down, is this normal?
> 
> View attachment 1155120


Your lever screw has backed out. The lever should sit a bit below horizontal.
The screw takes a 1.5mm allen key and is on the shock head opposite side to the IPA knob lever.
As you screw it in you'll see it push on the knob stop internally and rotate the knob clockwise. Screw it in until it rests in the first indent which has the lever a bit below horizontal.

Then check your knocking again. Should be gone. That screw can take some mild loctite to stop it moving.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

R_Pierce said:


> The negative pressure is set when the air can is put on the shock. This particular shock does not have a separate negative air chamber that feeds from the positive. I have also noticed that mine seems to be losing air each ride. I'm going to double check it again this morning.
> 
> I have yet to have it bottom out though! And I'm 295lbs.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Losing negative air?
If so you might need a new negative air-seal. It's a -122 quadring and NBR material works best.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Losing negative air?
> If so you might need a new negative air-seal. It's a -122 quadring and NBR material works best.


No. Positive pressure

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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

R_Pierce said:


> No. Positive pressure
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


That's not common. Check valves first. Maybe dunk the shock in water to check for bubbles.

Positive air seal leaks aren't common as they show up first as the shock sticking down (positive has to leak to negative before it can escape). More common is valve cores leaking or the seal between the can and the shaft head having a fibre stuck across it.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Dougal said:


> That's not common. Check valves first. Maybe dunk the shock in water to check for bubbles.
> 
> Positive air seal leaks aren't common as they show up first as the shock sticking down (positive has to leak to negative before it can escape). More common is valve cores leaking or the seal between the can and the shaft head having a fibre stuck across it.


My slow leak ended up being the air can seal. Pumping up to 250 PSI and dunking in water I could see the air bubbles around seal. I re-seated the air can applying light coat of silicone grease to the threads and seal. Also seemed like the air can was a put on a little tight from the factory, I made sure not to over tighten it.


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## BikesandWind (Aug 31, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Your lever screw has backed out. The lever should sit a bit below horizontal.
> The screw takes a 1.5mm allen key and is on the shock head opposite side to the IPA knob lever.
> As you screw it in you'll see it push on the knob stop internally and rotate the knob clockwise. Screw it in until it rests in the first indent which has the lever a bit below horizontal.
> 
> Then check your knocking again. Should be gone. That screw can take some mild loctite to stop it moving.


Getting close. Took me a while to find my 1.5mm allen key. The screw was certainly loose, but knock still present when open. What does the same size screw do at the head of do, was also loose but I didn't want to touch it? 
If its easier and your happy to do so then send me a pm with your number since we are both in NZ.


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## ar_addict (Aug 30, 2017)

How firm is the shock supposed to be on the firmest setting , I pumped it up to almost 200 PSI and still it travels around 5-15 mm when pedaling hard ?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

BikesandWind said:


> Getting close. Took me a while to find my 1.5mm allen key. The screw was certainly loose, but knock still present when open. What does the same size screw do at the head of do, was also loose but I didn't want to touch it?
> If its easier and your happy to do so then send me a pm with your number since we are both in NZ.


Call me monday, number is on the shockcraft site.


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## BikesandWind (Aug 31, 2017)

sweet thanks. Looking to hoepfully order a Mattoc from you as well . Hope you get some riding in over the weekend


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Manual positive/negative air chamber equalisation. Not one for the purists, it's a pretty rudimentary instalation but works well.







Allows for firm or plush initial spring force depending on where you equalise. Just putting a schrader valve on the neg side would probably be a bit simpler but not quite so quick to modify the spring characteristics trailside.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Your lever screw has backed out. The lever should sit a bit below horizontal.
> The screw takes a 1.5mm allen key and is on the shock head opposite side to the IPA knob lever.
> As you screw it in you'll see it push on the knob stop internally and rotate the knob clockwise. Screw it in until it rests in the first indent which has the lever a bit below horizontal.
> 
> Then check your knocking again. Should be gone. That screw can take some mild loctite to stop it moving.


Paging Dougal... or mullen... or anyone else that knows
went to look @ my mcleod's lever - always had wiggle (can go beyond the "Open" position by quite a bit.
Found i am missing both bolts ... may very well be from day 1.

see below image, both missing bolts are circled.

when i reset the negative chamber, i find the grease is somewhat dirty (happens from the first time i did...). this is probably the reason.

Dougal, anyone else - do you have these in stock? what is the P/N on these?

is this a warranty issue?

Thanks !
Oren


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sine waiver said:


> Manual positive/negative air chamber equalisation. Not one for the purists, it's a pretty rudimentary instalation but works well.
> View attachment 1155531
> 
> Allows for firm or plush initial spring force depending on where you equalise. Just putting a schrader valve on the neg side would probably be a bit simpler but not quite so quick to modify the spring characteristics trailside.


How did you get that to screw in and seal? Wall thickness isn't great past the seals.



OrenPerets said:


> Paging Dougal... or mullen... or anyone else that knows
> went to look @ my mcleod's lever - always had wiggle (can go beyond the "Open" position by quite a bit.
> Found i am missing both bolts ... may very well be from day 1.
> 
> ...


Those bolts (and the bracket) are only used for attachment of the optional remote kit: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-remote-conversion-kit-manitou.html

Otherwise they're unused.

The three grub screws on the cap are: 
The horizontal one on the air valve side is IPA lever open stop adjustment. 
Top vertical one is detent ball for the IPA lever. 
Back horizontal one is the open stop for the rebound knob (sets total turns).


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Dougal said:


> How did you get that to screw in and seal? Wall thickness isn't great past the seals.


There's space for a threaded M3 hole at the right position and angle. I modelled the aircan and printed a corresponding drilling guide in PET to get the hole right, tapped m3 then epoxied in an M3 x 3mm barb fitting I made.there is good thread engagement in the can, so the epoxy is mostly for sealing.
The 1/8" brass ball valve is pretty heavy, that's my only real concern but it works.
There's scope to design something that is functionally the same but packaged better, but for a first try this is ok.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Those bolts (and the bracket) are only used for attachment of the optional remote kit: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-remote-conversion-kit-manitou.html
> 
> Otherwise they're unused.


Dougal - great as always. i am relieved (and feel somewhat stupid ).

thanks!
Oren


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Quick question for the heavier guys on this thread... What kind of pressures are you guys riding? I'm 235 o 240 geared up, and while 160 will give me 30% sag and 175 gives me 25%, both will blow through 80% to 90% of travel just riding off a curb seated. Its raining now so I cant test on the trail, but hopefully tomorrow. Does 185 psi sound too high for 240 lbs riding xc/trail and some 2-3' drops? At this pressure, Ive also run out of rebound. Cranked to the max, I still get a bit more bounce than usual on the seated curb test. It will rebound up past the initial sag point, then settle on the next downstroke. I'm used to tuning rebound to stop oscillation on the rebound upstroke.

The bike is a chinese carbon scott 700 plus clone. XM Carbonspeed FS27. Its a 2.6 leverage ratio and size 165x38 shock. BTW, the shock barely fits since its mounted upsidedown. I have to pull the bottom mounting hardware to get my shock pump on there.

Thanks for any suggestions.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> Quick question for the heavier guys on this thread... What kind of pressures are you guys riding? I'm 235 o 240 geared up, and while 160 will give me 30% sag and 175 gives me 25%, both will blow through 80% to 90% of travel just riding off a curb seated. Its raining now so I cant test on the trail, but hopefully tomorrow. Does 185 psi sound too high for 240 lbs riding xc/trail and some 2-3' drops? At this pressure, Ive also run out of rebound. Cranked to the max, I still get a bit more bounce than usual on the seated curb test. It will rebound up past the initial sag point, then settle on the next downstroke. I'm used to tuning rebound to stop oscillation on the rebound upstroke.
> 
> The bike is a chinese carbon scott 700 plus clone. XM Carbonspeed FS27. Its a 2.6 leverage ratio and size 165x38 shock. BTW, the shock barely fits since its mounted upsidedown. I have to pull the bottom mounting hardware to get my shock pump on there.


I run 200 psi to net me 30% sag at 295 pound rider weight. Your rebound sounds about right. You want a slight bounced up past the sag point then to fall back to sag and stop. Are you running the shock fully open or in 1 or 2?

I run mine in setting 1 and have zero issue blowing through the middle. It's plush but I only use about 80% of total travel.

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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> I run 200 psi to net me 30% sag at 295 pound rider weight. Your rebound sounds about right. You want a slight bounced up past the sag point then to fall back to sag and stop. Are you running the shock fully open or in 1 or 2?
> 
> I run mine in setting 1 and have zero issue blowing through the middle. It's plush but I only use about 80% of total travel.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


I'm testing on 1, but plan to ride mainly in 2, or maybe 3 on some of the groomed trails with a bit more climbing.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

GuitsBoy said:


> Quick question for the heavier guys on this thread... What kind of pressures are you guys riding? I'm 235 o 240 geared up, and while 160 will give me 30% sag and 175 gives me 25%, both will blow through 80% to 90% of travel just riding off a curb seated. Its raining now so I cant test on the trail, but hopefully tomorrow. Does 185 psi sound too high for 240 lbs riding xc/trail and some 2-3' drops? At this pressure, Ive also run out of rebound. Cranked to the max, I still get a bit more bounce than usual on the seated curb test. It will rebound up past the initial sag point, then settle on the next downstroke. I'm used to tuning rebound to stop oscillation on the rebound upstroke.
> 
> The bike is a chinese carbon scott 700 plus clone. XM Carbonspeed FS27. Its a 2.6 leverage ratio and size 165x38 shock. BTW, the shock barely fits since its mounted upsidedown. I have to pull the bottom mounting hardware to get my shock pump on there.
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.


Reduce volume in the air can. You can contact manitou and see if they still have volume reducer kits. If not, you can use grease, oring cord, and as a last resort, oil. Oil will eventually make it's way past the seals, so it's not the best choice, but it works.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks, increasing the progressive rate with spacers or grease was going to be my next move. Ill see how it feels at 185 and under 25% sag, but I have a feeling ill be taking up volume in the near future. I just wanted to get a baseline for what other clydes were running.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> Thanks, increasing the progressive rate with spacers or grease was going to be my next move. Ill see how it feels at 185 and under 25% sag, but I have a feeling ill be taking up volume in the near future. I just wanted to get a baseline for what other clydes were running.


What is the leverage ratio of that bike? Seems odd that you are blowing through the mid stroke like that.

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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

2.6315789474


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> 2.6315789474


Sorry, I didn't see that in your OP. Any advice you get from Mullen or KTM is solid. They will not lead you wrong.

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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

No worries, it was cut and paste on my phone. I didnt vengefully and snidely type out each digit. Or did I? No, no I did not.

I'm more concerned with the rebound being maxxed out, but I guess my rebound demand may be lessened once I reduce the air can volume. I'm surprised its holding up to your 200 psi.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> No worries, it was cut and paste on my phone. I didnt vengefully and snidely type out each digit. Or did I? No, no I did not.
> 
> I'm more concerned with the rebound being maxxed out, but I guess my rebound demand may be lessened once I reduce the air can volume. I'm surprised its holding up to your 200 psi.


Usually most of these handle 250 or so PSI. But I have yet to be able to find anywhere that lists a Max psi for the McLeod.

I absolutely love this shock! Which is why I'm a little surprised there doesn't seem to be enough platform or compression for your weight/bike. I also have my rebound at about 90%.

I hope to mess with the shim stack a bit with the help of KTM and/or Mullen but have not gotten around to that yet.

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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Using 80-90% of the travel off a seated curb isn't out of the ordinary. Being seated makes a big difference compared to standing.


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

Hey, can someone who knows Manitou ask them to do something about their distribution / retail network, please. 

Trying to buy a seal kit for the McLeod is impossible, like only one online retailer advertising the kit that I can find (from US) . Furthermore, I'm in the market for a fork and was interested in the Machete Pro as an alternative to RS Revelation, but guess what... I can't find anyone online who sells them, so I guess I'll stick with RS


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

geoffpw said:


> Hey, can someone who knows Manitou ask them to do something about their distribution / retail network, please.
> 
> Trying to buy a seal kit for the McLeod is impossible, like only one online retailer advertising the kit that I can find (from US) . Furthermore, I'm in the market for a fork and was interested in the Machete Pro as an alternative to RS Revelation, but guess what... I can't find anyone online who sells them, so I guess I'll stick with RS


Actually, it is really easy. Just walk into any bike shop and ask if they can order parts from BTI. Almost every shop will say yes (like Bikeline).

BTI has Mcleod seal kits in stock:

BTI | products matching "Mcleod"

If you want to order on-line, most shops can order directly from Manitou.

Try Ben's bike or even Dirt Merchant (excellent by the way).


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

geoffpw said:


> Hey, can someone who knows Manitou ask them to do something about their distribution / retail network, please.
> 
> Trying to buy a seal kit for the McLeod is impossible, like only one online retailer advertising the kit that I can find (from US) . Furthermore, I'm in the market for a fork and was interested in the Machete Pro as an alternative to RS Revelation, but guess what... I can't find anyone online who sells them, so I guess I'll stick with RS


This was 2 minutes of research.

https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC171378...d-air-shocks?gclid=CJGrjNC3x9MCFYJpfgodK8YAdg

https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC171377/manitou-air-can-seal-kit-mcleod-air-shocks

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83542

As Vespasianus said, any BTI shop can order them as well


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Since the thread is active again I wanted to re-ask and see what the thoughts where...R. Pierce chimed in on another thread and gave me his experience. I just wanted to get some more if possible before I sold off my Monarch + and ordered a new shock....I can't afford to make a mistake that will cost me hundreds having to play the sell and buy game....here's the original question....

Any heavy riders using this shock? It was recommended to me so I'm reading up on it to see if it will fit my needs. I'm 265 pounds...275-ish riding weight. Bike is the DiamondBack Release. Trying to figure out if this shock will work better for me than the , 200x57mm comes stock on the Release. Thoughts?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

I know Mullen's brother rides one as well and he's heavier than I. Maybe Mullen will chime in as well.

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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

R_Pierce said:


> I know Mullen's brother rides one as well and he's heavier than I. Maybe Mullen will chime in as well.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Ktm520 is the one who has a Clyde buddy who switched to a McLeod. He reported a significant improvement over his previous shock.



Nubster said:


> Since the thread is active again I wanted to re-ask and see what the thoughts where...R. Pierce chimed in on another thread and gave me his experience. I just wanted to get some more if possible before I sold off my Monarch + and ordered a new shock....I can't afford to make a mistake that will cost me hundreds having to play the sell and buy game....here's the original question....
> 
> Any heavy riders using this shock? It was recommended to me so I'm reading up on it to see if it will fit my needs. I'm 265 pounds...275-ish riding weight. Bike is the DiamondBack Release. Trying to figure out if this shock will work better for me than the , 200x57mm comes stock on the Release. Thoughts?


No stock shock is going to be tuned well for your weight. A rt3 debonair is going to be one of the worst options of the bunch though, the spring just doesn't play well with heavy riders.

The McLeod compression damper is pretty good at working with various rider weights. This is because the external adjuster puts preload on the shim stack rather than putting preload on a low speed compression poppet spring. This makes for a more significant change in overall damping, which is a bonus for riders outside the tunes base weight range.

The biggest issue for clydes is rebound damping, The high spring pressures overcome the stock valving fairly easily, so you'll be running the adjuster very close to full closed to get reasonable rebound speeds. A custom tune will would fix that.

That said, you will have the same issues with every single shock out there. The mcleod seems to handle it better than most stock tuned shocks according to reports. Pretty easy shock to tune at home if you have basic knowledge and mechanical ability as well. I would highly recommended going with one.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> Ktm520 is the one who has a Clyde buddy who switched to a McLeod. He reported a significant improvement over his previous shock.
> 
> No stock shock is going to be tuned well for your weight. A rt3 debonair is going to be one of the worst options of the bunch though, the spring just doesn't play well with heavy riders.
> 
> ...


Ah. My bad! I knew one of the two did 

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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

I am seriously considering the Manitou Mcleod for my 2016 Specialized Stumpjumper 6fattie. I am a little off the normal weight for the shock on this bike and am pretty limited to the shocks I can run due to frame clearance at the upper eyelet. I do have a Bike Yoke so can run a 190 x 50 shock. 

I am under 120 lbs ready to ride. Everything on a stock shock is way to restrictive, LSC HSC and rebound all over damped. I was just about ready to send the Fox DPS shock off to Avy for a custom build but really worried about not liking it and then going through the process again. I do like to tinker with the suspension so it looks like I could change a few things on the McLeod to make it work for me. First of all I would get the King Can, at my weight the biggest air can seems to help. Also I like being able to access the IFP and thought I might be able to tune it down a little to help out. Finally looking at the videos changing the oil out seems really easy. Dropping the oil viscosity down by using Redline Extralight or "Like Water" has really helped me on fork tuning. 

What do you guys think? Anyone my size running this shock? 

Thanks for your help!


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

JillRide45 said:


> I am seriously considering the Manitou Mcleod for my 2016 Specialized Stumpjumper 6fattie. I am a little off the normal weight for the shock on this bike and am pretty limited to the shocks I can run due to frame clearance at the upper eyelet. I do have a Bike Yoke so can run a 190 x 50 shock.
> 
> I am under 120 lbs ready to ride. Everything on a stock shock is way to restrictive, LSC HSC and rebound all over damped. I was just about ready to send the Fox DPS shock off to Avy for a custom build but really worried about not liking it and then going through the process again. I do like to tinker with the suspension so it looks like I could change a few things on the McLeod to make it work for me. First of all I would get the King Can, at my weight the biggest air can seems to help. Also I like being able to access the IFP and thought I might be able to tune it down a little to help out. Finally looking at the videos changing the oil out seems really easy. Dropping the oil viscosity down by using Redline Extralight or "Like Water" has really helped me on fork tuning.
> 
> ...


I'm not familiar with your bike linkage, but the mcleod should be a good choice. I would wait until you try the regular can before buying a king can. The standard can doesn't ramp up as hard as you would think it would. I'm 160 in gear and my wife is 130, we both need volume reduction with the standard cans. Linkage design plays a big factor, but you should try it before spending the money on the king can.

Changing to a thin oil won't help much. Shimmed dampers respond to pressure rather than oil viscosity, so oil weight only has an effect on port low speed compression and low speed rebound. The mcleod has no low speed compression port, it is only a shimmed circuit. It does have a ported low speed rebound adjustment, but the shim stack is not preloaded like other shocks, so changing oil will have a very minimal effect.

The good news is that if you feel comfortable changing the oil in the shock, changing some shims while it's open is easy. You will likely be impressed with the stock tune and not need any adjustments (my wife runs the stock rebound tune), but if you do, let me know and I'll give the info on a good stack to run.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JillRide45 said:


> I am seriously considering the Manitou Mcleod for my 2016 Specialized Stumpjumper 6fattie. I am a little off the normal weight for the shock on this bike and am pretty limited to the shocks I can run due to frame clearance at the upper eyelet. I do have a Bike Yoke so can run a 190 x 50 shock.
> 
> I am under 120 lbs ready to ride. Everything on a stock shock is way to restrictive, LSC HSC and rebound all over damped. I was just about ready to send the Fox DPS shock off to Avy for a custom build but really worried about not liking it and then going through the process again. I do like to tinker with the suspension so it looks like I could change a few things on the McLeod to make it work for me. First of all I would get the King Can, at my weight the biggest air can seems to help. Also I like being able to access the IFP and thought I might be able to tune it down a little to help out. Finally looking at the videos changing the oil out seems really easy. Dropping the oil viscosity down by using Redline Extralight or "Like Water" has really helped me on fork tuning.
> 
> ...


Changing oil will only affect the rebound. The compression ports are all shimmed and shims react to pressure instead of viscosity.

Mrs Dougal is about your size and rides a (stock) McLeod with good results, running a King-Can set to medium volume.


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

*oil viscosity effects*

mullen119 and Dougal - appreciate your many helpful comments as I'm also considering the McLeod shock. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

It seemed to me that oil viscosity should have some effect on damping of shim systems because even shims act a restrictive circuits at lower flow rates where the shims are not fully open. Thus, lower viscosity oil might provide improved small bump compliance.

Here's some info from the Shim ReStackor web site about this:

Shim ReStackor example calculation retuning a shim stack to be three clicks softer

_"At low suspension velocities flows through the suspension circuits are laminar and influenced by oil viscosities...

At low suspension velocities the shim stack is barely cracked opened creating a thin annular gap. The thin annular gap creates a flow geometry with a high surface area per unit flow area. The high surface area amplifies oil viscosity effects and increases the pressure loss and damping force of the shock absorber...

At high suspension velocities the flow area produced by the shim stack is large enough that the surface area of the valve seat becomes a negligible fraction of the fluid flow area. Here oil viscosity has a negligible effect on the pressure loss since valve seat surface area is a negligible fraction of the total flow area...

The specifics of how a suspension will respond to a change in oil viscosity depend on the specifics of the shock absorber flow circuits. The influence of oil viscosity depends on the stiffness of the shim stack, the surface area of the valve seat, the geometry of the valve port, the bleed circuits and the diameter of the shock absorber damper rod and its influence on oil flow rates through the suspension..."_

Based on this it might be worth trying different oil viscosities and just see whether they offer any noticeable improvement for your riding conditions. The ReStackor program might even help with tuning both the shim stack and the oil viscosity.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

levity said:


> mullen119 and Dougal - appreciate your many helpful comments as I'm also considering the McLeod shock. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
> 
> It seemed to me that oil viscosity should have some effect on damping of shim systems because even shims act a restrictive circuits at lower flow rates where the shims are not fully open. Thus, lower viscosity oil might provide improved small bump compliance.
> 
> ...


Most shocks run a low speed orifice port in parrallel to the shims. This is your bypass.
The bypass is highly sensitive to oil viscosity, the shims aren't.
In the Restackor example the thinner oil requires the bypass to be closed further for the same result.

The McLeod doesn't have a bypass. All compression is via shims. Which is why when my McLeod gets too hot to touch (and oil is about 1/3 of it's 20C viscosity) the compression damping is almost unchanged. But the rebound gets faster because it runs an adjustable bypass.

Oil viscosity affects shims only when it's too high. Because then the ports become significant extra damping. 


ReStackor said:


> Lightweight oils produce little change in damping with increased temperature since the viscous damping forces generated by the suspension fluid are low in the first place. For the above example increasing the oil temperature from 70 F to 200 F produces little change in the shape of the damping force curve.


Shims are presssure sensitive and self regulating. The more damping force you get, the more pressure is developed and the more they open.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Most shocks run a low speed orifice port in parrallel to the shims. This is your bypass.
> The bypass is highly sensitive to oil viscosity, the shims aren't.
> In the Restackor example the thinner oil requires the bypass to be closed further for the same result.
> 
> ...


In some situations, changing to a thinner oil can help. As dougal said above, the mcleod just isn't one of those situations. The lack of a compression port makes the change only affect the rebound side (and that's minimal).

If you are pulling it apart to change the oil, just adjust the shim stacks. The down side to this is the mcleod compression shim stacks are more complicated than most. I'm not sure if I can (am allowed) write a guide or not, I will look into it


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

So I am confused on how the compression side of the McLeod works. Is it that there is no needle, just a shim stack and the preload is changed to control when it blows off? I am guessing if that is the case, the shim stack is multistaged? I assume rebound is traditional with a shim stack and bleed from a needle for the adjustment? It seems the compression side is similar to what Avalanche is doing when Craig modifies the Fox CDT and Rockshox Monarch. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Cary said:


> So I am confused on how the compression side of the McLeod works. Is it that there is no needle, just a shim stack and the preload is changed to control when it blows off? I am guessing if that is the case, the shim stack is multistaged? I assume rebound is traditional with a shim stack and bleed from a needle for the adjustment? It seems the compression side is similar to what Avalanche is doing when Craig modifies the Fox CDT and Rockshox Monarch.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


Correct, compression is no needle, only shims. The IPA lever preloads the shims to move the whole damping curve.

Rebound is a needle and shims.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Dougal said:


> Correct, compression is no needle, only shims. The IPA lever preloads the shims to move the whole damping curve.
> 
> Rebound is a needle and shims.


Thanks. That explains why is feels right for my 235 pounds running the ipa in 2-3 all the time. It is just adjusting the entire curve to fit my weight.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Another question for Dougal. Is the negative chamber larger on the King Can than the standard?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

If one thing this thread has taught me, it's that shock dampening is hugely dependant on the linkage leverage ratio. Wow. I'm 295-300 and never leave setting 1.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Cary said:


> Another question for Dougal. Is the negative chamber larger on the King Can than the standard?


It's the same.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Dougal said:


> It's the same.


Is there a listed "max" psi for these shocks? Both standard can and with the king can?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Must be some good squishy going on...

Just got a PR on my gold standard benchmark climb the very first time out with the manitou and ANY full suspension bike. Ive hit this hill over 50 times in the last year, and my times were EXTREMELY consistent on the hardtail, pretty much all within a 5 to 10 second range. I was really concerned the full suspension was going to set me back considerably on my climbs, but instead I wound up with a new PR by 2 seconds instead, and compression was only in #3. I really didnt notice any bob until the very end, when I was furiously mashing away with every last ounce of energy I could muster up, and form completely falls apart as you go into climb survival mode. Anyway, the shock held its own pretty well. Traction is insane.

Its going to take me a while to get acclimated to full suspension as a whole, and understand what I like and dont like about the shock, but by far my biggest fear has been put to rest. 

Anyway, just wanted to share that in my first major test, the mcleod passed with flying colors.

BTW, added 5g of grease to the air can, running 180 psi, compression at #2-3 and rebound 1/8 turn from max. Might add another 5g grease, and drop to 175 psi.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> Must be some good squishy going on...
> 
> Just got a PR on my gold standard benchmark climb the very first time out with the manitou and ANY full suspension bike. Ive hit this hill over 50 times in the last year, and my times were EXTREMELY consistent on the hardtail, pretty much all within a 5 to 10 second range. I was really concerned the full suspension was going to set me back considerably on my climbs, but instead I wound up with a new PR by 2 seconds instead, and compression was only in #3. I really didnt notice any bob until the very end, when I was furiously mashing away with every last ounce of energy I could muster up, and form completely falls apart as you go into climb survival mode. Anyway, the shock held its own pretty well. Traction is insane.
> 
> ...


I found the same! Set PR's first time out. I'm very glad to hear that you like it!!!!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yup that was pretty consistent with what I found, especially the feeling of traction. Coming from my CTD Float, the increase in traction was insane and the small bump compliance seemed like I was riding a hardtail. Buddy riding behind me said he had never seen my rear wheel WANT to stay on the ground so much from the shock and we had done lots of tuning on the CTD to ensure it was setup properly. 

Actually surprised myself last night when I rode as I forgot that the shock was completely open from this weekends ride. Normal ride has 2 miles of tarmac before I reach the trailhead and multiple stop signs, standing to get moving again resulted in very little, if any, pedal bob input which completely surprised me when I looked down and noticed that it was open. And really the only reason I looked down was because it was raining and I was trying to figure out where a scraping noise was coming (dirt in rotor) and noticed the lever open as I went over a baby head rock in the middle of the trail.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

GuitsBoy said:


> Must be some good squishy going on...
> 
> Just got a PR on my gold standard benchmark climb the very first time out with the manitou and ANY full suspension bike. Ive hit this hill over 50 times in the last year, and my times were EXTREMELY consistent on the hardtail, pretty much all within a 5 to 10 second range. I was really concerned the full suspension was going to set me back considerably on my climbs, but instead I wound up with a new PR by 2 seconds instead, and compression was only in #3. I really didnt notice any bob until the very end, when I was furiously mashing away with every last ounce of energy I could muster up, and form completely falls apart as you go into climb survival mode. Anyway, the shock held its own pretty well. Traction is insane.
> 
> ...


When you say you were "furiously mashing away..." is that climbing out of the saddle?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

fsrxc said:


> When you say you were "furiously mashing away..." is that climbing out of the saddle, in IPA3?


"Climbing out of the saddle" seems like youre selling it short.  Yes, this was an all out max effort sprint, out of the saddle, thrusting downward on the pedal while pulling up on the bar to eek out every last bit of power. By the end it transitions to just trying to stand on alternating legs and letting gravity do the work as complete fatigue and total exhaustion set in just as you crest the top. Its ugly.

And yes, in IPA3. By all rights it should have been done in IPA4, but I wanted to get a baseline comparison in what I would usually be riding in (IPA2 or 3).


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

R_Pierce said:


> Is there a listed "max" psi for these shocks? Both standard can and with the king can?


I'm not aware of any special limitations. Usually with a 300psi shock pump you're good. If 300psi aint enough you should start asking questions.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

R_Pierce said:


> Is there a listed "max" psi for these shocks? Both standard can and with the king can?


Max pressure in the standard can is listed as 250psi.

I have never cam across a max pressure for the king can. I wouldn't go over 300.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Is it possible to buy a Mcleod with the King Can or is the King Can always an extra? I am running a HV Monarch RT3 so I'm assuming I'd want a King Can Mcleod.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

PhillipJ said:


> Is it possible to buy a Mcleod with the King Can or is the King Can always an extra? I am running a HV Monarch RT3 so I'm assuming I'd want a King Can Mcleod.


King Can is an add-on as far as I have ever seen unless you are purchasing used. I would recommend testing with the standard can first before making the assumption that the King Can is needed. This shock behaves very differently (as you may see through the last 13pgs) than any other shock out there.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

I don't really want to rely on damping, however amazing it is, to mask an inappropriate spring curve.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PhillipJ said:


> I don't really want to rely on damping, however amazing it is, to mask an inappropriate spring curve.


Funny. Because the others all try to do the opposite.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Dougal said:


> Funny. Because the others all try to do the opposite.


I'm pretty sure I've seen you state that if you don't have your spring right the rest doesn't matter...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PhillipJ said:


> I'm pretty sure I've seen you state that if you don't have your spring right the rest doesn't matter...


Sure have. Just taking a dig at the companies that have terrible damping and try to band aid it with the spring.


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

Hello Gentlemen,

I'm running the McLeod for 4 months (and loving it) but I need some expert opinion.
Since i'm using the shock with an RS Pike's remote, the pull on the cable is not enough to close the IPA completely.

a, Can it cause a problem if i set the IPA to 2/4 default so the remote can close it completely? (150mm travel bike, so jumps do happen often)
b, Is there a way to increase low speed compression to avoid pedal bob?

Thank you in advance,
Peter


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

gyenisp said:


> Hello Gentlemen,
> 
> a, Can it cause a problem if i set the IPA to 2/4 default so the remote can close it completely? (150mm travel bike, so jumps do happen often)
> b, Is there a way to increase low speed compression to avoid pedal bob?
> ...


a) I shouldn't think so, I often do run it on 4 for the whole ride. Based on what's described in here, the damping curves and the vorsprung tech videos, I now think of the IPA as more of a High Speed pop-off valve. It just determines the point when the shim stack opens up rather than a dedicated low speed circuit like other shocks. So it essentially takes a big hit the same regardless of the IPA level.

b) I can't definitively answer that, I'd say probably only by tuning the shim stack to provide more damping in the initial part of the curve.

But my experience is that dialling in the rebound setting makes a all the difference to pedal bob. A few degrees can make a big difference with this shock.

I set mine based on its behaviour in setting 3, at just a tiny bit over 3/4 closed..... just enough to keep the shock stable when peddling on setting 3, but also fast enough to prevent it from packing down in the rocky chatter of my local trails.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Bluman8 said:


> a) I shouldn't think so, I often do run it on 4 for the whole ride. Based on what's described in here, the damping curves and the vorsprung tech videos, I now think of the IPA as more of a High Speed pop-off valve. It just determines the point when the shim stack opens up rather than a dedicated low speed circuit like other shocks. So it essentially takes a big hit the same regardless of the IPA level.
> 
> b) I can't definitively answer that, I'd say probably only by tuning the shim stack to provide more damping in the initial part of the curve.
> 
> ...


The IPA sets the preload on the compression shim stack I do believe. It's not really a "pop off valve". But it's indefinitely adjustable, meaning you don't HAVE to put it in any of the dedicated positions, you can adjust it to anything in between as you wish.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

Bluman8 said:


> a) I shouldn't think so, I often do run it on 4 for the whole ride. Based on what's described in here, the damping curves and the vorsprung tech videos, I now think of the IPA as more of a High Speed pop-off valve. It just determines the point when the shim stack opens up rather than a dedicated low speed circuit like other shocks. So it essentially takes a big hit the same regardless of the IPA level.
> 
> b) I can't definitively answer that, I'd say probably only by tuning the shim stack to provide more damping in the initial part of the curve.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the fast reply.

That's good news, i would set it as i can close it fully now. On the long run I'd like to either 3D print a new IPA cap which turns more for the same pull, or increase the pull with a double sided lever.

According to the rebound, it is maxed out already and still kinda on the fast side.

I'm kinda big guy, 113kg fully equiped and running 208psi but my pump measures under, so it is more like 220-230ish.
57mm stroke 150mm travel, Leverage ratio is fairly flat (2.67-2.6 Cube Stereo 27.5+ 150 2016 - Linkage Design)

I welcome any advice how to set it up better and/or reach firmer pedaling platform.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

gyenisp said:


> Thank you for the fast reply.
> 
> That's good news, i would set it as i can close it fully now. On the long run I'd like to either 3D print a new IPA cap which turns more for the same pull, or increase the pull with a double sided lever.
> 
> ...


That linkage design must really wreck havoc on the shock. Having to run it closed seems crazy to me.

Perhaps you would benefit greatly from a custom tune. We will wait for Mullen, Dougal or KTM to pop in and comment. Those are the three go to guys here on this particular shock.


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

R_Pierce said:


> That linkage design must really wreck havoc on the shock. Having to run it closed seems crazy to me.
> 
> Perhaps you would benefit greatly from a custom tune. We will wait for Mullen, Dougal or KTM to pop in and comment. Those are the three go to guys here on this particular shock.


I thought linear leverage ratio is a good thing. 

The Rockshox OneLoc moves it about 50-55 degrees, so it would sit somewhere between IPA 2-3 under normal use, only closed while climping or pedaling on flat roads.

We'll see.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

gyenisp said:


> I thought linear leverage ratio is a good thing.
> 
> The Rockshox OneLoc moves it about 50-55 degrees, so it would sit somewhere between IPA 2-3 under normal use, only closed while climping or pedaling on flat roads.
> 
> We'll see.


Linear is, Im speaking more the leverage ratio. The 2.6ish. Lets see what the experienced guys have to say when they get a chance. Might take a day or two, but they always venture in when they get some time.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

What bike are you on R_Pierce? You may have said before but I can't recall if you did. When you bought the bike...did you have in mind the leverage ratio? I didn't read about that being so important for heavier riders until after I bought my bike so that wasn't something I was considering.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Nubster said:


> What bike are you on R_Pierce? You may have said before but I can't recall if you did. When you bought the bike...did you have in mind the leverage ratio? I didn't read about that being so important for heavier riders until after I bought my bike so that wasn't something I was considering.


Im on an Ican P8 (asian carbon frame). And I actually did not even think or know about it until later after I had bought the bike. I just lucked out with a 2.4 leverage ratio so its about perfect for us bigger guys.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Yeah...I think I lucked out too with my Release. The ratio on it is around 2.5 I think.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

gyenisp said:


> Thank you for the fast reply.
> 
> That's good news, i would set it as i can close it fully now. On the long run I'd like to either 3D print a new IPA cap which turns more for the same pull, or increase the pull with a double sided lever.
> 
> ...


The IPA can be adjusted to further increase the preload. That said, I am wondering is something is wrong with your shock. Rebound is really dictated by the spring rate and at 208psi you are well below the max pressure (spring rate) for the shock. I run 220 in my shock and rebound just over 1/2 in. With the IPA at 4 you should have a decent platform and your frame has reasonable anti squat (about 90%) so shouldn't have a great deal of bobbing when pedaling. Together it suggests a lack of dampening on the compression and rebound side.

Just to make sure, are you looking for the shock totally lock out? If so, this shock and most new ones don't, instead increasing compression dampening to limit bob. You will always have some shock movement, but it should firm up the pedaling.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

Cary said:


> The IPA can be adjusted to further increase the preload. That said, I am wondering is something is wrong with your shock. Rebound is really dictated by the spring rate and at 208psi you are well below the max pressure (spring rate) for the shock. I run 220 in my shock and rebound just over 1/2 in. With the IPA at 4 you should have a decent platform and your frame has reasonable anti squat (about 90%) so shouldn't have a great deal of bobbing when pedaling. Together it suggests a lack of dampening on the compression and rebound side.
> 
> Just to make sure, are you looking for the shock totally lock out? If so, this shock and most new ones don't, instead increasing compression dampening to limit bob. You will always have some shock movement, but it should firm up the pedaling.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


With IPA4 its better, definitely firmer. My source of the problem is the not enough cable pull with the RS remote, that's why i asked: can it cause a problem if i run IPA ~2.5 during big hits/jumps.

The asking other suggestions for setup is rather a curiosity.
Since i used to be a roadie, the shock definitely have a hard time with me due to high cadence. 85 average, 95+ on climbs and i can even reach 110+. The shock definitely bobbles more above 80. But as i said its better with IPA4, i just have to know to is it safe to run 2-3 as "open".


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

gyenisp said:


> With IPA4 its better, definitely firmer. My source of the problem is the not enough cable pull with the RS remote, that's why i asked: can it cause a problem if i run IPA ~2.5 during big hits/jumps.
> 
> The asking other suggestions for setup is rather a curiosity.
> Since i used to be a roadie, the shock definitely have a hard time with me due to high cadence. 85 average, 95+ on climbs and i can even reach 110+. The shock definitely bobbles more above 80. But as i said its better with IPA4, i just have to know to is it safe to run 2-3 as "open".


just checking, are you sure your shock is not topping out?
I've had to remove the air can on mine to reset the negative chamber, twice this season, and it makes a big difference to the rebound.


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

fsrxc said:


> just checking, are you sure your shock is not topping out?
> I've had to remove the air can on mine to reset the negative chamber, twice this season, and it makes a big difference to the rebound.


I've reset the neg chamber and when removing I almost had to pull like it had vacuum (at least the seals are good). The rebound is definitely better now, so thank you!
I didn't even dare to think after 2.5months and 1000km it needs small service already.

I still wait for the experts opinion of the IPA 2-3 as "open" before i start to shred with those settings. 
Any advice is still welcome, this is my first fullsus bike and eager to learn&experiment.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

gyenisp said:


> With IPA4 its better, definitely firmer. My source of the problem is the not enough cable pull with the RS remote, that's why i asked: can it cause a problem if i run IPA ~2.5 during big hits/jumps.
> 
> The asking other suggestions for setup is rather a curiosity.
> Since i used to be a roadie, the shock definitely have a hard time with me due to high cadence. 85 average, 95+ on climbs and i can even reach 110+. The shock definitely bobbles more above 80. But as i said its better with IPA4, i just have to know to is it safe to run 2-3 as "open".


I am concerned about the fact you need full rebound, as I would expect it to be halfway. Have you tried it further out? I am wondering if you are running way to much and packing down the suspension attempting to get a firm platform feel when pedaling.

Keep in mind, full suspension bikes move around when pedaling. Trying to eliminate it entirely will only screw up the ride. As a high cadence rider, you should see small movements in the shock, which isn't an issue, usually it is grinders who pedal in squares that really get the movement.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

I ride a 13' reign, that's a 150 mm travel with 200x50 shock and leverage ratio somewhere around 3ish. Granted I'm only 76-78kg fully loaded. 

I'd recommend few things if you want to play with your setup:
- I assume you're shock pressure is based on sag setting or preventing a harsh bottom out, not trying to control pedal bob with an overly stiff spring rate. 
Higher pressure = faster rebound = more rebound damping control.

- forget everything you know about setting rebound or how fast or slow you think it should be. The general consensus from the suspension gurus is most people have their rebound set to slow.... probably because of the car park test setup routine or incorrect tire pressure....

Find a short test tail thats representative of the trails that you regularly ride for repeat runs up and down. Set you shock pressure based the recommended sag for your bike, set the rebound full to 1/4 open and then close it incrementally from there riding by feel.... does this feel too fast or too slow in the moment on this track?.... not how does this feel compared to what I used to set it at?

While doing this test put an extra 5-10 PSI in you tires. If you're pressures are in the wrong sweet spot they will bounce you around making it feel like there is not enough rebound damping on the shock, when it's actually the tires... listen to the Vital MTB podcast with Jose Gonzales, even the pro's riding rampage get tripped up by this.....I run a minion DHF at 27 psi on 24mm wide rim, at 26psi my front end rebound goes to **** cause the tire is too bouncy.

Try and match your fork rebound speed to your shock with each adjustment.....fork movement or lack thereof also effects shock movement when climbing/pedalling

....ride this new setup for a while to get used to it. Your riding style might actually change to suit the bike setup rather than changing the bike to what you think you riding style is.....


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Tooling has been made and tested. Just need some more reliability testing before I unlease this on the public.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

gyenisp said:


> I've reset the neg chamber and when removing I almost had to pull like it had vacuum (at least the seals are good). The rebound is definitely better now, so thank you!
> I didn't even dare to think after 2.5months and 1000km it needs small service already.
> 
> I still wait for the experts opinion of the IPA 2-3 as "open" before i start to shred with those settings.
> Any advice is still welcome, this is my first fullsus bike and eager to learn&experiment.


It won't hurt it a bit. All you are doing is increasing the compression stack load. You will be fine running it there.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Cary said:


> I am concerned about the fact you need full rebound, as I would expect it to be halfway. Have you tried it further out? I am wondering if you are running way to much and packing down the suspension attempting to get a firm platform feel when pedaling.
> 
> Keep in mind, full suspension bikes move around when pedaling. Trying to eliminate it entirely will only screw up the ride. As a high cadence rider, you should see small movements in the shock, which isn't an issue, usually it is grinders who pedal in squares that really get the movement.


Its actually pretty common on this shock from my experience. I have to run nearly full rebound as well. And Im running 225 psi in my shock. Not saying that is correct, but from what I have read its pretty common.


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

Bluman8 said:


> I ride a 13' reign, that's a 150 mm travel with 200x50 shock and leverage ratio somewhere around 3ish. Granted I'm only 76-78kg fully loaded.
> 
> I'd recommend few things if you want to play with your setup:
> - I assume you're shock pressure is based on sag setting or preventing a harsh bottom out, not trying to control pedal bob with an overly stiff spring rate.
> ...


Thanks for the tips (and to everyone else also).

I could only test it inside yet, but since the neg chamber reset&regrease the rebound seems better, probably i have to set it back from maximum. Hopefully the weather let me do some quick test at the weekend.

I have hard time setting up the shock compared to the PIKE since i can't see it while riding and it is my first fullsus. Probably the 2.8"@22PSI ([email protected]) tires also mask the rear movement a lot.
I've ordered an action cam meanwhile, i hope that would also help me set up the shock.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gyenisp said:


> Thanks for the tips (and to everyone else also).
> 
> I could only test it inside yet, but since the neg chamber reset&regrease the rebound seems better, probably i have to set it back from maximum. Hopefully the weather let me do some quick test at the weekend.
> 
> ...


Generally speaking, there is no issue with running theses shocks with the IPA in any position and riding. It's a fully shimmed damper and will blow off. Settin your remote to work from 2-4 instead of 1-3 is fine. The problem occurs when riding aggressively with the IPA lever not fully open (especially with a heavier rider). This can cause problems with the shock cavitating, which is very hard on the damper (will damage it over time) and will make for uncontrolled rebound as the piston passes through the cavitation bubbles before they collapse.

You can't really compare rebound settings with other people for various reasons. Manitou has used a few different rebound tunes, bikes leverage ratio/curve, and spring curve (volume) just to name a few. You running almost closed rebound can mean you are nearing the limits of the stock rebound valving, or it can mean you are cavitating and trying to fix the uncontrolled rebound caused by adjusting the rebound.

Your best bet is to buy a 3in1 tool and set you ifp pressure as high as you can at home and see if it helps. 450psi would be ideal if you can get it there. If it doesn't help, you have the tool needed to revalve your damper to fix the issue with a shim stack adjustment. I can help you with stacks if needed.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> Generally speaking, there is no issue with running theses shocks with the IPA in any position and riding. It's a fully shimmed damper and will blow off. Settin your remote to work from 2-4 instead of 1-3 is fine. The problem occurs when riding aggressively with the IPA lever not fully open (especially with a heavier rider). This can cause problems with the shock cavitating, which is very hard on the damper (will damage it over time) and will make for uncontrolled rebound as the piston passes through the cavitation bubbles before they collapse.
> 
> You can't really compare rebound settings with other people for various reasons. Manitou has used a few different rebound tunes, bikes leverage ratio/curve, and spring curve (volume) just to name a few. You running almost closed rebound can mean you are nearing the limits of the stock rebound valving, or it can mean you are cavitating and trying to fix the uncontrolled rebound caused by adjusting the rebound.
> 
> Your best bet is to buy a 3in1 tool and set you ifp pressure as high as you can at home and see if it helps. 450psi would be ideal if you can get it there. If it doesn't help, you have the tool needed to revalve your damper to fix the issue with a shim stack adjustment. I can help you with stacks if needed.


Gyenisp, this man right here is a life saver for us "common" folk! He deserves much respect!


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> Generally speaking, there is no issue with running theses shocks with the IPA in any position and riding. It's a fully shimmed damper and will blow off. Settin your remote to work from 2-4 instead of 1-3 is fine. The problem occurs when riding aggressively with the IPA lever not fully open (especially with a heavier rider). This can cause problems with the shock cavitating, which is very hard on the damper (will damage it over time) and will make for uncontrolled rebound as the piston passes through the cavitation bubbles before they collapse.
> 
> You can't really compare rebound settings with other people for various reasons. Manitou has used a few different rebound tunes, bikes leverage ratio/curve, and spring curve (volume) just to name a few. You running almost closed rebound can mean you are nearing the limits of the stock rebound valving, or it can mean you are cavitating and trying to fix the uncontrolled rebound caused by adjusting the rebound.
> 
> Your best bet is to buy a 3in1 tool and set you ifp pressure as high as you can at home and see if it helps. 450psi would be ideal if you can get it there. If it doesn't help, you have the tool needed to revalve your damper to fix the issue with a shim stack adjustment. I can help you with stacks if needed.


Thank you very much for your reply! Currently i'm having a manflu, so no riding this weekend. :\

But i did set the shock as much as i could inside the house, and after the neg chamber reset the rebound definitely feels better. Also the shock seems to have better platform with IPA2.5 so i went back from 18% sag to 25%, probably i can go lower the rebound too now. I hope better weather and the cam arrives soon so i can upload some footage and get some expert opinion.
I'm not riding very aggressive trails (bike park level) by the way.

I've checked the service videos on youtube, the IFP pressure looks doable, but i lack the tools to do the more complex parts of it. The video says the IFP is filled with nitrogen, shouldn't normal air cause problems?
Also couldn't find the 3in1 tool in europe, is there any other way to open the hole and attach a pump? My shock pump have gauge up to 400psi, probably i can trick it to do 420-440 by feel.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gyenisp said:


> Thank you very much for your reply! Currently i'm having a manflu, so no riding this weekend. :\
> 
> But i did set the shock as much as i could inside the house, and after the neg chamber reset the rebound definitely feels better. Also the shock seems to have better platform with IPA2.5 so i went back from 18% sag to 25%, probably i can go lower the rebound too now. I hope better weather and the cam arrives soon so i can upload some footage and get some expert opinion.
> I'm not riding very aggressive trails (bike park level) by the way.
> ...


Manitou 3 in 1 Shock Tool | Chain Reaction Cycles

Air is fine. Nitrogen is preferred because there is no moisture in it and heat has a smaller affect on it, but lots of people use sir in IFP chambers (including me). Air is 78% nitrogen anyway.

You don't have to be super aggressive, though it makes it more likely. It's all about high shaft speeds and how much compression damping there is. Running the IPA closed or in position 3 as a normal setting will up the chance for cavitation significantly.


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## caste (Dec 5, 2014)

Hi guys, got me a McLeod few weeks back and going to install it this evening. I'd like to paint the rebound adjuster in black, can I remove it without make any damages? I'd say yes as it seems made like the Mattoc hbo adjuster, but better be safe. Thank you, can't wait to test this bad boy!


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

caste said:


> Hi guys, got me a McLeod few weeks back and going to install it this evening. I'd like to paint the rebound adjuster in black, can I remove it without make any damages? I'd say yes as it seems made like the Mattoc hbo adjuster, but better be safe. Thank you, can't wait to test this bad boy!


yes.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

Does anyone know what the IFP pressure range is? Watching the Manitou service video it says set at 300psi or call us (They are closed). I was wondering how low of pressure the IFP can be set for lighter rider. Thanks


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

JillRide45 said:


> Does anyone know what the IFP pressure range is? Watching the Manitou service video it says set at 300psi or call us (They are closed). I was wondering how low of pressure the IFP can be set for lighter rider. Thanks


are you experiencing something that makes you feel the IFP is too high?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JillRide45 said:


> Does anyone know what the IFP pressure range is? Watching the Manitou service video it says set at 300psi or call us (They are closed). I was wondering how low of pressure the IFP can be set for lighter rider. Thanks


300psi is stock. Can go more with heavier riders.

If you don't have enough IFP pressure then you can cavitate on fast compression (loss of all damping, fast compression and even faster rebound) and suck air in to the oil via the main shaft seal.

There's no big benefit to going less for lighter riders. It reduces shaft friction a little as the seals have less load on them.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

JillRide45 said:


> Does anyone know what the IFP pressure range is? Watching the Manitou service video it says set at 300psi or call us (They are closed). I was wondering how low of pressure the IFP can be set for lighter rider. Thanks


Where can you view that video? Thanks


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nash04 said:


> Where can you view that video? Thanks


All linked from here: https://www.manitoumtb.com/support/


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Thanks but noticed they don't mentioned the required PSI for the air can which is what I'm looking for.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Nash04 said:


> Thanks but noticed they don't mentioned the required PSI for the air can which is what I'm looking for.


Read Dougals post earlier. He explains that there is no benefit to lowering the IFP.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

Sorry if this has been solved, but searching through the thread I could not seem to figure out what the final solution was. 

Is there a remote that will allow use of all 4 positions? Or at least 3 of the positions? I cannot use an under bar remote as I have a dropper post lever already so I was thinking something like the Manitou kit but with use of more than just 2 positions. has anyone tried the Fox remote? Thank you


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gyenisp said:


> Thank you very much for your reply! Currently i'm having a manflu, so no riding this weekend. :\
> 
> But i did set the shock as much as i could inside the house, and after the neg chamber reset the rebound definitely feels better. Also the shock seems to have better platform with IPA2.5 so i went back from 18% sag to 25%, probably i can go lower the rebound too now. I hope better weather and the cam arrives soon so i can upload some footage and get some expert opinion.
> I'm not riding very aggressive trails (bike park level) by the way.
> ...


You're lucky guy, Manitou's chief engineer tested the mcleod on your bike for a while. He wanted me to pass this info along to you in case you want to tune it. He weighs 170 lbs, another tester was heavier so the tunes should be right on for you.

*Standard Air can; 130psi-135psi With this bike and set-up the level of tune was to the point I could feel a 3 psi change. This means the negative aspects were reduced to the point that tiny changes were notable.

IPA position 2 for aggressive riding in a park, position 1 for rough/rocky natural trails.

Shim stack:

10 x 14 x 0.1 x(3)

10 x 20 x 0.25t x (2) or change to 20x0.2tx(4) (same relieve stiffness)

8 x 10 x 0.15t x (1)

8 x 16 x 0.1t x (2)

8 x 12 x 0.1t x (1)

Yellow Piston

Rebound side

8 x 15 x 0.15t x (2)

8 x 10.5 x 0.2t x (1)

400psi IFP charge
*

For those who don't know(it's never really been discussed, so very few of you do), there are two damper pistons available. A red version which is standard, and a yellow version that helps a little with initial stroke plushness. I edited the information above to keep the differences between them private for a little while longer. It's nothing major, and there may be options to switch between them in the future.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

JillRide45 said:


> Sorry if this has been solved, but searching through the thread I could not seem to figure out what the final solution was.
> 
> Is there a remote that will allow use of all 4 positions? Or at least 3 of the positions? I cannot use an under bar remote as I have a dropper post lever already so I was thinking something like the Manitou kit but with use of more than just 2 positions. has anyone tried the Fox remote? Thank you


McLeod requires 18mm of cable pull to go from full open to full lock out. Any remote will work.

Word is that decathlon bikes in europe has a good 3 position remote that matches well with the mcleod. It is not on there website however. If you are interested, you can contact them and see if it's available. https://www.decathlon.co.uk/contact-us.html

On another note, as Dougal stated earlier, you should not lower IFP pressure. It can cause issues with no benifits. Any loss is ifp pressure would need to be matched with a raise in air can pressure anyway (sane is true in opposite direction). Changing the tune is the only way to achieve what you are looking for.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> McLeod requires 18mm of cable pull to go from full open to full lock out. Any remote will work.
> 
> Word is that decathlon bikes in europe has a good 3 position remote that matches well with the mcleod. It is not on there website however. If you are interested, you can contact them and see if it's available. https://www.decathlon.co.uk/contact-us.html
> 
> On another note, as Dougal stated earlier, you should not lower IFP pressure. It can cause issues with no benifits. Any loss is ifp pressure would need to be matched with a raise in air can pressure anyway (sane is true in opposite direction). Changing the tune is the only way to achieve what you are looking for.


Thanks for the reply. My main worry with the IFP is if I open up the shock to adjust tune I will need to buy a shock pump that goes to at least 300psi, preferrably higher. My current shock pump only goes to 300psi so might be close. Hopefully I will not have to open her up.

Thanks for the info on the remote pull, I will see what I can find.

On another note, I have been loving the shock and I now have 3 rides on it. Halfway through the last ride it really started squeakiing. At the top of the compression it sounds like your tire is rubbing (so like rubber on metal sound). I hear the oil in my forks swish by the shims sometimes but this is different and it occurs at the top of the compression and everytime. I called Manitou and they said they had never heard such a thing. I am going to let all the air out and compress it to see if noise is still there. Any other ideas??


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

JillRide45 said:


> Thanks for the reply. My main worry with the IFP is if I open up the shock to adjust tune I will need to buy a shock pump that goes to at least 300psi, preferrably higher. My current shock pump only goes to 300psi so might be close. Hopefully I will not have to open her up.
> 
> Thanks for the info on the remote pull, I will see what I can find.
> 
> On another note, I have been loving the shock and I now have 3 rides on it. Halfway through the last ride it really started squeakiing. At the top of the compression it sounds like your tire is rubbing (so like rubber on metal sound). I hear the oil in my forks swish by the shims sometimes but this is different and it occurs at the top of the compression and everytime. I called Manitou and they said they had never heard such a thing. I am going to let all the air out and compress it to see if noise is still there. Any other ideas??


A 300 psi shock pump is fine. You can easily hit 300 with it and you can go over pretty easily.

Post a video of your shock making the noise if possible


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## Kartwheel68 (Jun 14, 2015)

I have a Mcleod on one of my old bikes, a 2011 Fuji Reveal (Horst link) and it works great. I currently ride a 2016 Yeti SB5 with a Fox Performance DPS and its really not very good, its harsh even with the switch in open. I'm interested to hear if anyone has used a Mcleod on a Yeti with the Switch Infinity and if so, what configuration did you use, regular can, King can, etc. The Performance 34 fork on this bike is even worse, at full open there is too much low speed and high speed compression, so I am looking at putting a Mattoc with IRT on it. Any insight is appreciated.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

Kartwheel68 said:


> I have a Mcleod on one of my old bikes, a 2011 Fuji Reveal (Horst link) and it works great. I currently ride a 2016 Yeti SB5 with a Fox Performance DPS and its really not very good, its harsh even with the switch in open. I'm interested to hear if anyone has used a Mcleod on a Yeti with the Switch Infinity and if so, what configuration did you use, regular can, King can, etc. The Performance 34 fork on this bike is even worse, at full open there is too much low speed and high speed compression, so I am looking at putting a Mattoc with IRT on it. Any insight is appreciated.


Which year Fox 34 fork do you have? Is it the Fit4 or Grip damper? The 2016 Fox 34 forks are very harsh off the bottom, even they admit it and came out with a slightly lighter low speed tune for 2017 that is called the E16 tune. If you are not heavy and need of a lot of rebound damping you can change to a lighter weight oil in the damper. I changed to Redline "Like Water" (I am 110 lbs and run 35 psi in the fork for 25% sag) and it completely transformed that fork.

As for the Yeti Switch suspension I cannot comment on that, but I just switched from a 
Fox DPS to the Mcleod. The Mcleod is definitly much better over small bumps, actually over almost anything. The Fox shock always seems to react after the fact while the Mcleod makes things disappear. Good luck!


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## Kartwheel68 (Jun 14, 2015)

Its a 2016 34 Performance with the GRIP damper, and even in open it is extremely harsh on steep fast downhills like enduro tests. On casual trail riding its not bad. The problem is the compression adjuster is just for low speed and what I need is less (a LOT less) high speed damping. I got the bike in January and the longer I ride it the less satisfied I am with the suspension, especially the fork. The last enduro I did it just about killed my wrists, I have to do something which for that fork I am limited to an Avalanche cartridge or a different fork. A friend has the same exact bike and got an Avalanche cartridge for the fork and he said it absolutely transformed the fork. The thing is, I can get a Mattoc for less than the cost of an Avy cartridge and I get the benifit of putting an IRT in it for a far better air spring and probably equal damper.

The Performance DPS shock is marginally better, and in general I am not as particular about the rear suspension, as long as I can make the front go where I want I can make the rear follow. Like the fork though, I can get a Mcleod for about the same price as to have Avalanche or someone else valve my shock.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

Kartwheel68 said:


> Its a 2016 34 Performance with the GRIP damper, and even in open it is extremely harsh on steep fast downhills like enduro tests. On casual trail riding its not bad. The problem is the compression adjuster is just for low speed and what I need is less (a LOT less) high speed damping. I got the bike in January and the longer I ride it the less satisfied I am with the suspension, especially the fork. The last enduro I did it just about killed my wrists, I have to do something which for that fork I am limited to an Avalanche cartridge or a different fork. A friend has the same exact bike and got an Avalanche cartridge for the fork and he said it absolutely transformed the fork. The thing is, I can get a Mattoc for less than the cost of an Avy cartridge and I get the benifit of putting an IRT in it for a far better air spring and probably equal damper.
> 
> The Performance DPS shock is marginally better, and in general I am not as particular about the rear suspension, as long as I can make the front go where I want I can make the rear follow. Like the fork though, I can get a Mcleod for about the same price as to have Avalanche or someone else valve my shock.


From what I have read the Fox Grip Damper works by putting pressure on the shim stack. This should alter lsc and hsc. Here is what Fox says:

"Simplifying things a bit, the FIT4 design uses different flow paths to achieve different compression damping settings, while the GRIP damper increases / decreases force on the shim stack to regulate the compression damping.''

Sounds to me that moving the GRIP switch on top is shifting the entire curve, not just LSC. But maybe the shim stack is just wrong for you.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Kartwheel68 said:


> I have a Mcleod on one of my old bikes, a 2011 Fuji Reveal (Horst link) and it works great. I currently ride a 2016 Yeti SB5 with a Fox Performance DPS and its really not very good, its harsh even with the switch in open. I'm interested to hear if anyone has used a Mcleod on a Yeti with the Switch Infinity and if so, what configuration did you use, regular can, King can, etc. The Performance 34 fork on this bike is even worse, at full open there is too much low speed and high speed compression, so I am looking at putting a Mattoc with IRT on it. Any insight is appreciated.


I put a Mattoc on my 5-spot a few years back and it immediately made my Pushed Fox shock feel like crap. When I sent it to get re-tuned, I purchased the McLeod to act as a back up shock. Was very surprised at how well it works and the fox now sits in a box and acts as my back up.

I am a big fan of the king can as you can modulate the volume as you desire.


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## Kartwheel68 (Jun 14, 2015)

JillRide45 said:


> From what I have read the Fox Grip Damper works by putting pressure on the shim stack. This should alter lsc and hsc. Here is what Fox says:
> 
> "Simplifying things a bit, the FIT4 design uses different flow paths to achieve different compression damping settings, while the GRIP damper increases / decreases force on the shim stack to regulate the compression damping.''
> 
> Sounds to me that moving the GRIP switch on top is shifting the entire curve, not just LSC. But maybe the shim stack is just wrong for you.


Yes, that is how it works, there is a spring that loads the compression shim stack and turning the lever adds pressure to the shims. I've done my own motorcycle suspension valving for 30+ years so I get some shims and play with it before I buy anything else.

Actually, with a little use of the Googler I found an article where I guy does exactly that and removes a shim to get the fork softer for his wife.

http://www.peterverdone.com/fox-grip/

I'll probably start with that and order some other size shims to play with it.



Vespasianus said:


> I put a Mattoc on my 5-spot a few years back and it immediately made my Pushed Fox shock feel like crap. When I sent it to get re-tuned, I purchased the McLeod to act as a back up shock. Was very surprised at how well it works and the fox now sits in a box and acts as my back up.
> 
> I am a big fan of the king can as you can modulate the volume as you desire.


I think the regular can might work better with the Switch Infinity as it has a very linear leverage curve.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Kartwheel68 said:


> Yes, that is how it works, there is a spring that loads the compression shim stack and turning the lever adds pressure to the shims. I've done my own motorcycle suspension valving for 30+ years so I get some shims and play with it before I buy anything else.
> 
> Actually, with a little use of the Googler I found an article where I guy does exactly that and removes a shim to get the fork softer for his wife.
> 
> ...


Agree. Start with the regular can. If you find you can't use full travel, then get a King Can.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Messing with the shims will help on the grip damper, it's worth a shot before dropping the money on a new fork. I haven't messed with one, but I hear of mixed results when tuning them. If it doesn't give you the results you are looking for, a mattoc is a great option. Most tunable fork on the market.

Same for the McLeod. The damper design is a cut above with the McLeod. Standard can is likely best for you as well.


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## Kartwheel68 (Jun 14, 2015)

I did some more research and found Vorsprung has a YouTube video on the GRIP damper.






There is a wave washer/spring that the knob loads the shim stack with. They feel like the shims dont really function like a shim valve until the adjuster turns down and bottoms the shims, before that the damping is all from the resistance of that wave washer/spring holding the shim against the valve face. They feel that shimming wont make any meaningful difference except in the "locked out" position where the wave spring is no longer used. That makes sense to me because looking at the size of that wave spring there is no way it is strong enough to hold enough pressure for the shims to deflect.


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## caste (Dec 5, 2014)

Tried the McLeod yesterday. Not sure if it's my imagination but it feels better than the CCDB Coil it replaced while eating the chunk on natural trails and much more lively.. I was afraid that I would need the king can for my progressive frame but I actually need to throw some reducers in it, which will improve the pop even more.


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> You're lucky guy, Manitou's chief engineer tested the mcleod on your bike for a while. He wanted me to pass this info along to you in case you want to tune it. He weighs 170 lbs, another tester was heavier so the tunes should be right on for you.
> 
> *Standard Air can; 130psi-135psi With this bike and set-up the level of tune was to the point I could feel a 3 psi change. This means the negative aspects were reduced to the point that tiny changes were notable.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much!!

We have a very helpful (although not as experienced) service for Manitou here in Hungary, I'll pass them the info about the shim modding and IFP pressure maybe they can do it for me during the winter service.

So far i'm on 198 PSI (25% sag), 45° from max rebound and using stock remote for MIN/MAX IPA settings and its feel awsome (except my handlebar is cluttered as hell  ).
I'm still looking for a dual remote which can pull enough to lock from min to max IPA, no luck so far (DT ODL 11mm, Scott Twinlock 14.7mm).


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

gyenisp said:


> Thank you very much!!
> 
> I'm still looking for a dual remote which can pull enough to lock from min to max IPA, no luck so far (DT ODL 11mm, Scott Twinlock 14.7mm).


Maybe try fitting a travel adjust pulley. The ones that make SRAM/Shimano or Road/Mtb shifters and derailieurs work with each other. I think problem solvers makes one but I'm sure others do to.


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

Bluman8 said:


> Maybe try fitting a travel adjust pulley. The ones that make SRAM/Shimano or Road/Mtb shifters and derailieurs work with each other. I think problem solvers makes one but I'm sure others do to.


Thanks for the tip!
I need double the amount of pull, and the one i found on evilbay looks like has 2x-ish leverage.
Ordered one, i'll report back when it arrives.


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## hmorsi (May 14, 2008)

In2falling said:


> Running about 195 psi, about the same as I was on RT3 and this seems to feel about right (23-25% sag).
> 
> Rebound is 90% closed and had the RT3 75% closed. This was my biggest concern when ordering the Mcleod, was it going to have enough rebound. I have little bit to play with, so should work out.
> 
> Will play around with PSI and different IPA setups, wait for it to break in and then see if I need volume spacers.


Were you able to use the stock mounting hardware that came with the RT3 on the Atlas?

Thanks!


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

hmorsi said:


> Were you able to use the stock mounting hardware that came with the RT3 on the Atlas?
> Thanks!


Yes and running Enduro needle bearing on the top mount. Needle bearing makes a huge difference on the Atlas, lot of movement on the top mount.


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## hmorsi (May 14, 2008)

In2falling said:


> Yes and running Enduro needle bearing on the top mount. Needle bearing makes a huge difference on the Atlas, lot of movement on the top mount.


Great, thanks! Just placed an order for a Mcleod.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

My Mcleod has developed a strange problem. It is bottoming out before the shock achieves full travel. Of the 56mm of stroke, it appears that I am getting about 40mm, or less. I noticed it 2 rides ago and thought I was short of air pressure. Rode 15 miles last night and it got progressively more noticeable.

Air pressure is still good.

Any suggestions are appreciated.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Prophet Julio said:


> My Mcleod has developed a strange problem. It is bottoming out before the shock achieves full travel. Of the 56mm of stroke, it appears that I am getting about 40mm, or less. I noticed it 2 rides ago and thought I was short of air pressure. Rode 15 miles last night and it got progressively more noticeable.
> 
> Air pressure is still good.
> 
> Any suggestions are appreciated.


Can't remember the cause, but if you search through the thread it is discussed. The solution is to contact Manitou and they will have you send it in and update the part causing the issue.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I know I saw it some time ago, but this thread is enormous. Too large for a search. I'm sending it out to Garageworks for repair. I ordered a new on to have a backup. In the meantime, I'll ride my fat bike.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Prophet Julio said:


> My Mcleod has developed a strange problem. It is bottoming out before the shock achieves full travel. Of the 56mm of stroke, it appears that I am getting about 40mm, or less. I noticed it 2 rides ago and thought I was short of air pressure. Rode 15 miles last night and it got progressively more noticeable.
> 
> Air pressure is still good.
> 
> Any suggestions are appreciated.


Same happened to me. IFP leaked, your shock needs rebuild

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L21 using Tapatalk


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

*184x44 ?*

Hi

thinking at some point to change the evol-DPS fox (non kash) that came stock on my tallboy to the McLeod.
No stock 184x44 in McLeod.

I am guessing this is a matter of adding a 6mm travel limiter in the negative chamber, on a 190x50?

i saw this - Just In - Manitou McLeod Rear Shock - which triggered my thinking.

Oren


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> Hi
> 
> thinking at some point to change the evol-DPS fox (non kash) that came stock on my tallboy to the McLeod.
> No stock 184x44 in McLeod.
> ...


Yep, 190x50 plus 5-6 of these behind the top-out bumper inside the air-can: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html


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## matteof93 (Jan 3, 2017)

I was thinking about the possibility of using a derailleur shifter as a remote for the mcleod. i read that the mcleod needs 18mm of cable pull to go from full open to full close.
this means that each click needs 4.5mm which is exactly the cable pull of a sram 1:1 7 speed shifter (source: Art's Cyclery Blog Â» Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility) so I could use this one, 10€ at Decathlon here in Italy https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/30-twist-shifters#sm.0001rtap48drydkswwj1m2n4xzkmp

The problem is that my shock does not have any metal plate (I don't know the specific name in english) near the IPA lever where I should attach the cable with its housing and with the spring. Do I need to purchase the entire (expensive) remote kit just to get the little spring and the metal plate? I am talking about these 2 little things in the picture


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

matteof93 said:


> I was thinking about the possibility of using a derailleur shifter as a remote for the mcleod. i read that the mcleod needs 18mm of cable pull to go from full open to full close.
> this means that each click needs 4.5mm which is exactly the cable pull of a sram 1:1 7 speed shifter (source: Art's Cyclery Blog Â» Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility) so I could use this one, 10€ at Decathlon here in Italy https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/30-twist-shifters#sm.0001rtap48drydkswwj1m2n4xzkmp
> 
> The problem is that my shock does not have any metal plate (I don't know the specific name in english) near the IPA lever where I should attach the cable with its housing and with the spring. Do I need to purchase the entire (expensive) remote kit just to get the little spring and the metal plate? I am talking about these 2 little things in the picture
> View attachment 1166344


Unfortunately, the only way to get the mounting bracket and spring is to buy the whole kit. You might be able to find someone who has one laying around, but new has to come from the kit.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I have a 2017 Canfield Balance running a Topaz. I've been a little unhappy with the Topaz, primarily on square-edged hits. I'm curious about switching to a McLeod, but slightly worried about losing the additional cooling of the piggyback reservoir. 

I've seen a few comments that the Mcleod doesn't have any issues handling heat. Is that a consensus? Is there any reason the Mcleod couldn't keep up? I ride this bike pretty hard, including some park days, and live in a really chunky area.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Porch said:


> I have a 2017 Canfield Balance running a Topaz. I've been a little unhappy with the Topaz, primarily on square-edged hits. I'm curious about switching to a McLeod, but slightly worried about losing the additional cooling of the piggyback reservoir.
> 
> I've seen a few comments that the Mcleod doesn't have any issues handling heat. Is that a consensus? Is there any reason the Mcleod couldn't keep up? I ride this bike pretty hard, including some park days, and live in a really chunky area.


As the one who started this whole thread I have been running the same McLeod (one of the first retail models) hard since 2015 with lots of chunk. My primary riding is the Lake Tahoe area of NorCal but I have ridden numerous times in Steamboat Springs Co and Sedona Az. Not once have I ever worried about the McLeod overheating. Funny enough my buddy and I rode Upper/Lower Corral in South Lake Tahoe (big bermed DH track) and were talking about the ability of our shocks to keep up as he was feeling his FOX CTD for his Genius needed to be rebuilt yet again as it felt like it was starting to overheat (his description was the more he pushed it the more it would start to feel like it was dragging and causing suspension travel issues when we got into the gnar). Other than lubing the stanchion of the shock every few rides it has never been off my bike let alone rebuilt.

While I am sure there are a few out there that have better experience at their shock overheating I highly doubt that there would be so many forks and shocks out there today with dark colored stanchions if that was truly an issue.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

gregnash said:


> As the one who started this whole thread I have been running the same McLeod (one of the first retail models) hard since 2015 with lots of chunk. My primary riding is the Lake Tahoe area of NorCal but I have ridden numerous times in Steamboat Springs Co and Sedona Az. Not once have I ever worried about the McLeod overheating. Funny enough my buddy and I rode Upper/Lower Corral in South Lake Tahoe (big bermed DH track) and were talking about the ability of our shocks to keep up as he was feeling his FOX CTD for his Genius needed to be rebuilt yet again as it felt like it was starting to overheat (his description was the more he pushed it the more it would start to feel like it was dragging and causing suspension travel issues when we got into the gnar). Other than lubing the stanchion of the shock every few rides it has never been off my bike let alone rebuilt.
> 
> While I am sure there are a few out there that have better experience at their shock overheating I highly doubt that there would be so many forks and shocks out there today with dark colored stanchions if that was truly an issue.


Thanks. I think i'm just being silly--pre-programmed by the bike industry to believe that a shock with a piggyback is an "enduro" shock, while those without are "XC" shocks.

Das german sites got the King Can back in stock for my shock size (216x63), so I went ahead and placed an order. Looking forward to its arrival!


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

matteof93 said:


> I was thinking about the possibility of using a derailleur shifter as a remote for the mcleod. i read that the mcleod needs 18mm of cable pull to go from full open to full close.
> this means that each click needs 4.5mm which is exactly the cable pull of a sram 1:1 7 speed shifter (source: Art's Cyclery Blog Â» Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility) so I could use this one, 10€ at Decathlon here in Italy https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/30-twist-shifters#sm.0001rtap48drydkswwj1m2n4xzkmp
> 
> The problem is that my shock does not have any metal plate (I don't know the specific name in english) near the IPA lever where I should attach the cable with its housing and with the spring. Do I need to purchase the entire (expensive) remote kit just to get the little spring and the metal plate? I am talking about these 2 little things in the picture
> View attachment 1166344


Have you look into this one; http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/27-5-stumpjumper-6fattie-969685-31.html#post13409922


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I've had my McLeod hot many times. Rebound speeds up and that's it. Shock cools back down, rebound goes back to normal speed.

Running a very high VI fluid will reduce the rebound speed change, but that's it. Even the best fluids change viscosity by a factor of 3 between 40C and 100C.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Porch said:


> I have a 2017 Canfield Balance running a Topaz. I've been a little unhappy with the Topaz, primarily on square-edged hits. I'm curious about switching to a McLeod, but slightly worried about losing the additional cooling of the piggyback reservoir.
> 
> I've seen a few comments that the Mcleod doesn't have any issues handling heat. Is that a consensus? Is there any reason the Mcleod couldn't keep up? I ride this bike pretty hard, including some park days, and live in a really chunky area.


Short answer is the McLeod will keep up. I ran my McLeod a full season, including about 6 days at Northstar when not riding my DH bike. No issues with overheating or fluid degradation. Keep in mind, I am 235 pounds, so not easy on shocks. See my comments on the McLeod v Topaz in the Diamond v Mattoc thread.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Finally got my Mcleod + King Can in the mail and installed it on my 2016 Canfield Riot. Previously the bike had a CCDBAir on it, but fortunately I was able to sell it before it blew up.

Holy smokes is the Mcleod a great shock! I have spent the last 3 months tinkering with my Topaz on my Canfield Balance, trying to get it to absorb square-edged hits, and on the first ride the Mcleod just blew it out of the water. I've got a Mcleod + King Can on order to replace the Topaz on my Balance now, too.

I'm 185lbs, running the Mcleod at 160psi with the middle volume can, but still breaking it in. Love the IPA settings. The rebound knob seemed strange at first, but I really prefer it to having several turns with vague detents (looking at you, Topaz). 

I can see how Cary could say the shock feels "dead" in comparison to the Topaz, but to me that was because I wasn't being bucked off everything with a big square edge. It just tracks right through the harshest rock gardens without any drama. 

The best part is how dead-simple the setup was. I just set air pressure for the right sag, adjusted the rebound, and went for a ride. I have spent months playing with +/- tokens on the Topaz, adjusting bladder and air can pressure, and it still feels like crap on a square-edged hit.

Anyways, thanks for the advice...couldn't be happier with this rear shock.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Porch said:


> The best part is how dead-simple the setup was. I just set air pressure for the right sag, adjusted the rebound, and went for a ride. I have spent months playing with +/- tokens on the Topaz, adjusting bladder and air can pressure, and it still feels like crap on a square-edged hit.
> 
> Anyways, thanks for the advice...couldn't be happier with this rear shock.


This may be the best aspect of the McLeod, it works amazingly well across frame designs and different rider sizes. I like the way the Topaz matches the Diamond better and the livelier feel of the Topaz, but agree the McLeod eats up square edged hits better. No matter how hard it gets pushed, the McLeod never felt overwhelmed to me.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Porch said:


> I'm 185lbs, running the Mcleod at 160psi with the middle volume can, but still breaking it in. Love the IPA settings. The rebound knob seemed strange at first, but I really prefer it to having several turns with vague detents (looking at you, Topaz).


Really? I am the same size as you and I am running around 110psi in mine with the rebound about halfway?! Am I missing out on something? This is what I found to be the best for setting the shock at about 25% SAG on my Stumpy FSR Clone...


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

gregnash said:


> Really? I am the same size as you and I am running around 110psi in mine with the rebound about halfway?! Am I missing out on something? This is what I found to be the best for setting the shock at about 25% SAG on my Stumpy FSR Clone...


I think it depends a lot on the bike kinematics, and also whether you're using the King Can. I am using the King Can on the "mid volume" option. I was running it at 140 at first, but it wallowed too much and a small 2' drop put it all the way through its travel. I bumped it up to 150, but still found myself too far into the travel after some small-ish drops. I haven't spent much time on it at 160, so I may back it off a few psi. It's still breaking in and seems to be loosening up quite a bit.

Another Riot owner I talked to was running the King Can at the full volume setting, and 190psi (though he was ~230lbs).


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## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

Hi guys,
i may present the *McLeod - Highlander tuning. There can be only one!*
This tuning takes the really good McLeod platform to another level and can easyly challenge the top end dampers from Fox, Cane Creek and BOS.

At this stage i modify the King Can, a complete new can depending on my calculations would be even more awesome 

*Features:*
- KingCan gets a pressure equalation port
- part of the lower half becomes negative air chamber for incredible good beginning stroke and more responsiveness in the middle stroke
- totally new damping setup without spiking and low ifp chamber pressure
- real mid- and highspeed compression damping, low speed from sensitive (ipa 1) to good platform (ipa 4)
- even better rebound damping that combines impressive chassis stability (lows speed) and grip (high speed)


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

gregnash said:


> Really? I am the same size as you and I am running around 110psi in mine with the rebound about halfway?! Am I missing out on something? This is what I found to be the best for setting the shock at about 25% SAG on my Stumpy FSR Clone...





Porch said:


> I think it depends a lot on the bike kinematics, and also whether you're using the King Can. I am using the King Can on the "mid volume" option. I was running it at 140 at first, but it wallowed too much and a small 2' drop put it all the way through its travel. I bumped it up to 150, but still found myself too far into the travel after some small-ish drops. I haven't spent much time on it at 160, so I may back it off a few psi. It's still breaking in and seems to be loosening up quite a bit.
> 
> Another Riot owner I talked to was running the King Can at the full volume setting, and 190psi (though he was ~230lbs).


As Porch said, it depends on the frame it is being run on, as starting and overall leverage curves will effect the sag v. weight v. pressure. In terms of analysis, it is pretty simple:

1) King can v. stock can- If your bike is linear to mildly progressive, start with the stock can. If your bike is moderate to very progressive, start with the King Can in the smaller volume setting.

2) Install, set sag to your frame manufacture's recommendation (generally 28-33%: whatever that pressure may be) and rebound 1/2 way out, IPA open.

3) Go ride. Adjust rebound as needed. How is the bike climbing? Add IPA if needed for climbing.

4) Now, go recheck sag, because guess what, shocks often loosen up in the first ride or two requiring that you increase the initial pressure by 10-15% to get the same sag.

5) Go ride again, adjust rebound again an IPA is needed, as the shock will likely change feel on the first couple of rides.

6) Now that you have ridden it two or three times and recheck sag a few times and adjusted pressure, ask yourself a few questions. Is the shock bottoming? If so, are you feeling it bottom (assuming you are riding your normal stuff). If the answer to the first question is yes and the second no, you are good. If you are not using all the travel (say only 80% or less), consider the King Can or if you have one, move to the large volume setting. If you are bottoming and feeling it, you need to decrease air volume, so from the large to middle setting on a King Can, or King Can to normal can. If you have the normal can and are bottoming, you will need to add some o rings to decrease volume (this should only be on a completely linear or regressive linkage).

7) Ride, check more and adjust further as needed.

Keep in mind, everyone rides differently. Even two people of the same weight, on the same bike may require different cans and volume. One could be a trail rider that wants plush and does no jumps using a full volume king can to get full travel, the other a pro racer that hits everything and needs the regular can to keep from blowing through travel. Follow the above and you will get the setup you need for your riding and bike.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Symion said:


> Hi guys,
> i may present the *McLeod - Highlander tuning. There can be only one!*
> This tuning takes the really good McLeod platform to another level and can easyly challenge the top end dampers from Fox, Cane Creek and BOS.
> 
> ...


Questions:

_- KingCan gets a pressure equalation port
- part of the lower half becomes negative air chamber for incredible good beginning stroke and more responsiveness in the middle stroke_

I assume that by doing this you limiting the can to the smaller of the two settings for the positive chamber and using the other for the negative. How are you addressing that doing so will cause the shock to become very progressive without an increase in air volume on the positive side?

_- totally new damping setup without spiking and low ifp chamber pressure_

This shock doesn't have spiking issues, so what exactly are you fixing? How are you preventing cavitation at lower IFP pressures?

_- real mid- and highspeed compression damping, low speed from sensitive (ipa 1) to good platform (ipa 4)_

This shock already has good mid and high speed dampening, what are you doing to improve it? Looking at your photos (without having shim dimensions) it appears you added spacer shims on the compression side to decrease the preload on the stack that the IPA provides. This would decrease compression dampening across the board, assuming the original shim stack was limiting flow, not the piston.

_- even better rebound damping that combines impressive chassis stability (lows speed) and grip (high speed)_

Again, how have you improved it? The shim stack you show for rebound still appears to have the same shim on the face of the piston, with an addition stack spaced out above it, which may or may not decrease high speed rebound (depends on how much that face shim is flexing). Have you decreased the face shim thickness? Are you running the rebound needle closed more to offset and reduce free bleed? Are you using the spacers on the compression side to compensate for less free bleed on the rebound needle?


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

[/QUOTE] other than lubing the stanchion of the shock every few rides it has never been off my bike let alone.[/QUOTE]

I feel like my McLeod sticks, should I be lubing the sanctions with slick honey? When setting up sag, I can't get the can to move at all. I have tried with 110-130 psi


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

other than lubing the stanchion of the shock every few rides it has never been off my bike let alone.[/QUOTE]

I feel like my McLeod sticks, should I be lubing the sanctions with slick honey? When setting up sag, I can't get the can to move at all. I have tried with 110-130 psi[/QUOTE]

Sounds like time to do a can service.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

KingCan:
Thats right, the upper half is used for extra volume on the positive side and parts of the lower (some spacer orings needed) for the negative chamber.
This setup is not overly progressive, i even need spacers on the positive side for my Knolly Chilcotin for a perfect setup.

Damping:
The original rebound shim ist 0.2mm thick and blocks most of the piston ports. On hard impacts this can lead to an pressure jump which overcomes the IFP force and leads to sucking air from the IFP chamber. Therefore user Dougal recommends higher IFP pressure.
Have a look at this picture:








My setup uses rebound shims with smaller diameter so the compression ports dont get blocked. Furthermore they have different thickness to work best with the air chamber. This is needed because the normal setup is heavily overdamped to compensate the weaknesses of the standard air can.

The compression of the original McLeod uses only a preloaded shimstacks with a huge port size (cause of the ring of the piston). So it only works as an lowspeed damping system. After overcoming the preload the compression damping ist totally digressive.
The small normal chamber tries to compensates this fact.

I use shims which are sitting on the compression site of the piston ports, so i get a real mid- and highspeed compression damping in addition to the lowspeed damping of the preloaded stack on top.

In using all parts of the piston it gets really tricky, so it took a lot of calculating an test runs.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Is a can service the same as a rebuild?



Cary said:


> other than lubing the stanchion of the shock every few rides it has never been off my bike let alone.


I feel like my McLeod sticks, should I be lubing the sanctions with slick honey? When setting up sag, I can't get the can to move at all. I have tried with 110-130 psi[/QUOTE]

Sounds like time to do a can service.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[/QUOTE]


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

nashwillis said:


> Is a can service the same as a rebuild?


Depends on where you're getting "rebuild" from.
If your seals seem sticky, start with removing the air can, clean then lube the seals (slick honey) then see if it's any better.
I found removing the air can the first time a bit tough, since they're always tight from the factory, but at least the McLeod can has wrench flats.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Symion said:


> KingCan:
> Thats right, the upper half is used for extra volume on the positive side and parts of the lower (some spacer orings needed) for the negative chamber.
> This setup is not overly progressive, i even need spacers on the positive side for my Knolly Chilcotin for a perfect setup.
> 
> ...


Yep stock rebound shim was 16mm in the original tunes. Which does create a high speed choke (beneficial in some applications, not so much in others). Swapping to 15mm opens up oil access to those ports.

I'm still running the original compression stack. It fits my riding very well. I continue to experiment with the air spring curves and am quite happy with current progress.


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Anyone know if Manitou plans on offering the McLeod in metric sizing anytime soon?
Thanks


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

fsrxc said:


> Depends on where you're getting "rebuild" from.
> If your seals seem sticky, start with removing the air can, clean then lube the seals (slick honey) then see if it's any better.
> I found removing the air can the first time a bit tough, since they're always tight from the factory, but at least the McLeod can has wrench flats.


Right on I will give this a try. I read the manual, after loosening the air can is it neccassary to put the shock back on the bike to compress the travel? Or can you just press down on it.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

nashwillis said:


> Right on I will give this a try. I read the manual, after loosening the air can is it neccassary to put the shock back on the bike to compress the travel? Or can you just press down on it.


Don't put on the bike, just pull the can down (I know manitou says compress a bit to unscrew, but have always just done on the vise).






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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Symion said:


> KingCan:
> Thats right, the upper half is used for extra volume on the positive side and parts of the lower (some spacer orings needed) for the negative chamber.
> This setup is not overly progressive, i even need spacers on the positive side for my Knolly Chilcotin for a perfect setup.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. A few more questions (which may be due to a difference in use of terms from German to English, but your English is excellent):

1) Any preloaded shim stack is digressive by nature, but once past the preload stage will be at a minimum a linear stack (which both the stock manitou stack is, and it appears your is). It looks like your compression stack is decreasing the preload before the stack opens, so it will open sooner. Are you then running thicker main shims (stock is 2 x 20 x .25) to provide more high speed dampening?

2) Just curious how you did your calculating? Did you use the shimstacker program?

3) It looks like you have put a lot of time, thought, and effort into this. It will be interesting to see (hopefully good) feedback on it.


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## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

Cary said:


> Thanks for the response. A few more questions (which may be due to a difference in use of terms from German to English, but your English is excellent):
> 
> 1) Any preloaded shim stack is digressive by nature, but once past the preload stage will be at a minimum a linear stack (which both the stock manitou stack is, and it appears your is). It looks like your compression stack is decreasing the preload before the stack opens, so it will open sooner. Are you then running thicker main shims (stock is 2 x 20 x .25) to provide more high speed dampening?
> 
> ...


1) Indeed the stacks are digressive. As the Shims from the original Setup sit on top of the higher edge of the piston the stack is very digressive.
I weakend this Stack a lot because my air chamber is a lot more linear in the first part of the stroke where the LS compression works. 
Additionally the second line of Shims lays direct on the compression ports of the piston. They give a little bit of free bleed, so they dont interfere with the LS Stack which lays on top. The regulate the oil flow on mid- and highspeed events like most normal shimstacks.
As the LS Stack on top is much weaker you can shred trough rock and root fields with IPA on 1-3 without the harsh feeling normal platform systems give (like Fox ProPedal, RS Compression).

2) The air chamber is calclulated with an own written tool. I also use shimrestackor but most of the work on the damping was testing an knowledge i gained in former projects. The Evolver Tuning came before and is not totally finished yet:
https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/tuning-manitou-evolver-isx-4.502420/page-22#post-13150925

3) Thanks i appreciate it.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

elsinore said:


> Anyone know if Manitou plans on offering the McLeod in metric sizing anytime soon?
> Thanks


Manitou have Metric shocks scheduled for release mid 2018. However there is no information on what these shocks will be.

If they release any announcements I will post them.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Cary said:


> Thanks for the response. A few more questions (which may be due to a difference in use of terms from German to English, but your English is excellent):
> 
> 1) Any preloaded shim stack is digressive by nature, but once past the preload stage will be at a minimum a linear stack (which both the stock manitou stack is, and it appears your is). It looks like your compression stack is decreasing the preload before the stack opens, so it will open sooner. Are you then running thicker main shims (stock is 2 x 20 x .25) to provide more high speed dampening?
> 
> ...


The preload on the McLeod is adjustable by the IPA lever. The stiffness of the stack sets the slope of the compression damping curve and the preload sets both the blowoff point and the height (Y axis intercept).

If you want damping with more gain with velocity then you run a stiffer stack (and vice-versa). You can set preload independently. But there's a minimum preload to stop the shims knocking.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm running my Mcleod on a Canfield Riot (roughly 2.7 --> 2.3 leverage ratio). I had the King Can on the middle setting, but it's too linear and i'm blowing through the travel on even small drops. The shock isn't broken in yet so i'm not sure I trust the sag setting, but even at 155psi (~20% sag) I'm using all the travel on a small 1' jump. At those pressures it already feels like i'm riding too high, so i'm afraid to go higher.

I'm thinking I just need to ditch the King Can and go back to the stock air can, is that correct?

I have a Mcleod on order for my Balance as well, which is 2.9 --> 2.4, will I need a King Can on that one?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Porch said:


> I'm running my Mcleod on a Canfield Riot (roughly 2.7 --> 2.3 leverage ratio). I had the King Can on the middle setting, but it's too linear and i'm blowing through the travel on even small drops. The shock isn't broken in yet so i'm not sure I trust the sag setting, but even at 155psi (~20% sag) I'm using all the travel on a small 1' jump. At those pressures it already feels like i'm riding too high, so i'm afraid to go higher.
> 
> I'm thinking I just need to ditch the King Can and go back to the stock air can, is that correct?
> 
> I have a Mcleod on order for my Balance as well, which is 2.9 --> 2.4, will I need a King Can on that one?


Try it without the king-can. You've still got the standard can right?


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Dougal said:


> Try it without the king-can. You've still got the standard can right?


Yep, going to give it a shot this weekend. Just curious if I was on the right track with messing with the air can.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Porch said:


> I'm running my Mcleod on a Canfield Riot (roughly 2.7 --> 2.3 leverage ratio). I had the King Can on the middle setting, but it's too linear and i'm blowing through the travel on even small drops. The shock isn't broken in yet so i'm not sure I trust the sag setting, but even at 155psi (~20% sag) I'm using all the travel on a small 1' jump. At those pressures it already feels like i'm riding too high, so i'm afraid to go higher.
> 
> I'm thinking I just need to ditch the King Can and go back to the stock air can, is that correct?
> 
> I have a Mcleod on order for my Balance as well, which is 2.9 --> 2.4, will I need a King Can on that one?


Using full King Can on my Riot and running close to 200psi at 220lbs geared up. Not a super fast aggressive rider and don't hit drops bigger than 2' but do ride through lots of big chunk at speed, and this feels great for me.

Standard can did not work for me, had to run low psi to get full travel which made mid support bit to soft, but might work for you and your terrain/riding style.

"At those pressures it already feels like i'm riding too high" 
Meaning to much mid support? Not enough small bump compliance?

I say try more psi with the middle setting. Take your shock pump out with you on some rides and play with the psi (shock tuning sessions), go hit your biggest drops/roughest trials and find the right psi. My experience is there is always a 1 to 5 psi sweet spot.


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## Kartwheel68 (Jun 14, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Manitou have Metric shocks scheduled for release mid 2018. However there is no information on what these shocks will be.
> 
> If they release any announcements I will post them.


I'm not sure who it was, but I saw someone in this thread make mention of a possible McLeod 2 shock. I honestly cant see much they could improve other than adding a piggyback option. Any guesses what a McLeod 2 might look like?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Kartwheel68 said:


> I'm not sure who it was, but I saw someone in this thread make mention of a possible McLeod 2 shock. I honestly cant see much they could improve other than adding a piggyback option. Any guesses what a McLeod 2 might look like?


From what I saw posted, different tuning. Guessing they may be using smaller rebound shims also to help the cavitation issue raised above as well as probably a larger negative chamber as is the current trend with all air shocks.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

In2falling said:


> Using full King Can on my Riot and running close to 200psi at 220lbs geared up. Not a super fast aggressive rider and don't hit drops bigger than 2' but do ride through lots of big chunk at speed, and this feels great for me.
> 
> Standard can did not work for me, had to run low psi to get full travel which made mid support bit to soft, but might work for you and your terrain/riding style.
> 
> ...


No, rides too high as in my fork is at 25% sag but the shock is riding at 20% sag (which puts me too far forward). Adding pressure is only going to make that worse.

I was thinking about your setup when I was messing with mine. There's no way I could run the King Can wide open on this bike. I'm going to mess with the standard air can for a while...


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## Kartwheel68 (Jun 14, 2015)

Cary said:


> From what I saw posted, different tuning. Guessing they may be using smaller rebound shims also to help the cavitation issue raised above as well as probably a larger negative chamber as is the current trend with all air shocks.


So not really all that much.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Kartwheel68 said:


> I'm not sure who it was, but I saw someone in this thread make mention of a possible McLeod 2 shock. I honestly cant see much they could improve other than adding a piggyback option. Any guesses what a McLeod 2 might look like?


No plans for a McLeod 2. AFAIK, there are some small running changes, but nothing in the near future that would be worthy of a major announcement.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Symion said:


> KingCan:
> Thats right, the upper half is used for extra volume on the positive side and parts of the lower (some spacer orings needed) for the negative chamber.
> This setup is not overly progressive, i even need spacers on the positive side for my Knolly Chilcotin for a perfect setup.
> 
> ...


16mm OD rebound shims are no longer used. Even with 15mm shims, higher IFP pressures are recommended if you regularly ride in IPA positions 2-3-or 4. Manitou used 16s on purpose for the original tune.

Send me a pm, I can give you a quick tuning tutorial on tuning the mcleod. There are some basic principles that you can use to quickly daily it in.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Porch said:


> No, rides too high as in my fork is at 25% sag but the shock is riding at 20% sag (which puts me too far forward). Adding pressure is only going to make that worse.
> 
> I was thinking about your setup when I was messing with mine. There's no way I could run the King Can wide open on this bike. I'm going to mess with the standard air can for a while...


Just to note, most modern forks run at 15-20% sag. Depending on the fork you may want to remove volume spacers and increase the pressure. This will also shift some weight back and increase your shock sag a bit.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Cary said:


> From what I saw posted, different tuning. Guessing they may be using smaller rebound shims also to help the cavitation issue raised above as well as probably a larger negative chamber as is the current trend with all air shocks.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Unfortunately a larger negative chamber will do little to help improve the spring curve with the current air spring design. What it needs is a self equalising negative chamber ( with more volume) like fox or RS ( or similar to what Symion describes above) or a 'Dorado' style spring that can allow pos and negative pressures to be proportional during inflation.
I think Dougal mentioned he might have something in the works.
Damping circuit layout is great as is and easily tunable.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

sine waiver said:


> What it needs is a self equalising negative chamber ( with more volume) like fox or RS ( or similar to what Symion describes above) or a 'Dorado' style spring that can allow pos and negative pressures to be proportional during inflation


Why?....
For performance or durability?....... ... Happy for someone to tell me what I'm missing, but personally I find the non-equalising chambers to be a performance feature of the McLeod not and pitfall.

Equalising pressure to reduce the effect of seal stickion is marketing bullshit.....pressure on both sides of the same seal doesn't cancel out, it accumulates and increases the friction force, providing a better seal...to stop oil migration between the chambers


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Well from a durability perspective, there's nothing wrong with the current design, appart from the fixed negative chamber slowly losing pressure if seals aren't just right.
The negative pressure is determined during assembly, and isn't really enough to counter the positive side force, especially for higher pressures. So it ends up having a threshold force to overcome before it moves much and the initial spring rate is high. Both these make it feel harsh.
Some people may even like this characteristic but many won't.
The difference is immediately apparent when riding a McLeod with higher negative pressure and volume (I was too impatient to wait for an update, so modified it myself, there's a photo earlier in the thread somewhere).


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

Modding the can to have a valve for the negative chamber?


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Cary said:


> Just to note, most modern forks run at 15-20% sag. Depending on the fork you may want to remove volume spacers and increase the pressure. This will also shift some weight back and increase your shock sag a bit.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah, just using it as an example. My bikes are all slack enough that I barely get sag to begin with.


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## Kartwheel68 (Jun 14, 2015)

sine waiver said:


> The difference is immediately apparent when riding a McLeod with higher negative pressure and volume (I was too impatient to wait for an update, so modified it myself, there's a photo earlier in the thread somewhere).


This is a brilliant idea.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Upsides and downsides to more negative volume/pressure. I'm still playing with both to get the mix of ride height and spring rate that I like.


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Kartwheel68 said:


> This is a brilliant idea.


It is not without some compromises and is a pretty utilitarian installation but it does allow for a lot of latitude in tuning neg volume ( by changing tube length) and pressure ( by varying the shock position were the positive and negative pressures are balanced with the ball valve).
Probably not a solution for most though.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Follow-up re: Canfield Riot.

The stock aircan is perfect for this frame. I'm 185lbs running it at 140psi. Normal riding uses about 70% of the travel, drops spike up to about 90%, leaving about 10% for a bad line choice


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## 30x26 (Feb 7, 2004)

Dougal said:


> The lever should sit a bit below horizontal.
> The screw takes a 1.5mm allen key and is on the shock head opposite side to the IPA knob lever.....


same situation here, i do not get any noise but i'll adjust the allen screw as soon as i'll have the key. 
by the way i have only 0,75 turn of movement at the rebound knob , do you confirm that 1,0 turn is the correct range?
i've read that the allen screw on the back sets the stop for the rebound knob, does it control the full open position or the full closed position?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

30x26 said:


> same situation here, i do not get any noise but i'll adjust the allen screw as soon as i'll have the key.
> by the way i have only 0,75 turn of movement at the rebound knob , do you confirm that 1,0 turn is the correct range?
> i've read that the allen screw on the back sets the stop for the rebound knob, does it control the full open position or the full closed position?


Grub screw in the back sets the open position of the rebound knob. Closed position is set by the needle touching the seat inside and closing the LSR port.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Porch said:


> Follow-up re: Canfield Riot.
> 
> The stock aircan is perfect for this frame. I'm 185lbs running it at 140psi. Normal riding uses about 70% of the travel, drops spike up to about 90%, leaving about 10% for a bad line choice


Good to hear. Glad it is working right for you now.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

Hi, I read through the thread and I'm looking for advice as to whether the mcleod would work for me out of the box, or would require some tuning?

Rider: 205 lbs
Bike: 2012 Marin Mount vision XM8 140mm (200 x 56) Quad link suspension. Originally equipped with Fox rp32 that pedals well but gets unsettled pretty easily.

If it matters, the fork is a Float with the 2016 FIT 4 factory damper.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

(Also, do any US sellers have it for around the same price as the euro stores? With shipping from Germany it comes out to around 215 at current x-rates)


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Desertride said:


> Hi, I read through the thread and I'm looking for advice as to whether the mcleod would work for me out of the box, or would require some tuning?
> 
> Rider: 205 lbs
> Bike: 2012 Marin Mount vision XM8 140mm (200 x 56) Quad link suspension. Originally equipped with Fox rp32 that pedals well but gets unsettled pretty easily.
> ...


If it is the Whyte designed quad, get the king can as that model has an extremely progressive suspension curve. If it is the later 3.0 quad, try the stock can first. The best prices for the shocks are from the german stores.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/search/label/Marin

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## 3lakemtb (Nov 24, 2017)

Hi,
I have a problem with a McLeod shock with the Milo remote.
The compression adjustment when released drags the rebound adjustment with it changing it's position. Every time the lever is released the rebound is changed a little leading soon to a very wrong adjustment.
It does that with and without the rebound knob installed.
Can you suggest a fix? Is it possible to tighten the rebound adjustment so that it will not move?


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

3lakemtb -- Hmmm, not sure what the problem with yours is. A guess would be that the remote knob and spring may not be fully seated causing them to bind the rebound knob. Mrs levity and I both have the McLeod remote conversion kit that we use with the Fox 3-position remote handlebar lever. I just checked and both work properly, i.e., the rebound knob is not affected by the the remote.

You should try disassembling and reassembling your set up. Here's a link to a video describing how to do it:






Be sure to test that you can turn the remote knob without affecting the rebound dial before you reinstall the shock!


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## rushy41 (Feb 21, 2007)

I have been reading that thread with interest and I am thinking about getting a Mcleod in the near future. The only thing that worries me a bit are the mentionned reliabilty issues. Would you guys recommend that shock for riders who rate reliabilty very high? And are these IFP issues somehow solved now? The aircan reset does not really bother me...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rushy41 said:


> I have been reading that thread with interest and I am thinking about getting a Mcleod in the near future. The only thing that worries me a bit are the mentionned reliabilty issues. Would you guys recommend that shock for riders who rate reliabilty very high? And are these IFP issues somehow solved now? The aircan reset does not really bother me...


The reliability issues are all about setup. The grub screws need adjusted correctly, the IFP was changed over 2 years ago. To make air-can resets a longer interval you can replace the original quad ring with a NBR one.

My original 190x50mm (serial number 20 something) is still going strong. As is the 200x57 that I bought soon after. I think that's 2.5 and 2 years respectively. Losing track of time these days.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Dougal said:


> The reliability issues are all about setup. The grub screws need adjusted correctly, the IFP was changed over 2 years ago. To make air-can resets a longer interval you can replace the original quad ring with a NBR one.
> 
> My original 190x50mm (serial number 20 something) is still going strong. As is the 200x57 that I bought soon after. I think that's 2.5 and 2 years respectively. Losing track of time these days.


Another on an OG can (would have to look at serial number to see exactly) and still rocking just as strong as day one. Actually my buddy that has been on a Scott Genius since I built the bike has had his Fox specific vanilla rebuilt 3 times now and is looking like he is gonna need another, and I ride more and harder than he does.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Dougal said:


> The reliability issues are all about setup. The grub screws need adjusted correctly, the IFP was changed over 2 years ago. To make air-can resets a longer interval you can replace the original quad ring with a NBR one.
> 
> My original 190x50mm (serial number 20 something) is still going strong. As is the 200x57 that I bought soon after. I think that's 2.5 and 2 years respectively. Losing track of time these days.


Where can you order the nbr seal?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

Long shot but anyone have a McLeod on a 2015 Orbea Rallon? I have a BOS Kirk on it now but curious to run a McLeod on it. The bike is pretty linear and my descents are decently long. Wondering how the McLeod would do on it with my 220lbs and clumsy rowdy riding. I also use this bike for DH parks.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

meSSican said:


> Long shot but anyone have a McLeod on a 2015 Orbea Rallon? I have a BOS Kirk on it now but curious to run a McLeod on it. The bike is pretty linear and my descents are decently long. Wondering how the McLeod would do on it with my 220lbs and clumsy rowdy riding. I also use this bike for DH parks.


It should work well with the stock air sleeve. The leverage ratio is pretty reasonable so will not overwork the shock.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

sine waiver said:


> It is not without some compromises and is a pretty utilitarian installation but it does allow for a lot of latitude in tuning neg volume ( by changing tube length) and pressure ( by varying the shock position were the positive and negative pressures are balanced with the ball valve).
> Probably not a solution for most though.


I like the ingenuity, but I don't think you can "tune" the neg pressure be varying the shock position when balancing. All this does is decrease the travel of the shock. 
If the pos and neg pressures are balanced at any point along the travel other than 0% the shock can't extend(rebound) beyond that point, because it's now the equilibrium point where the pos pressure is no longer greater than the neg pressure so it can extend the shock anymore.

If the shock is at a sag point 25% when you balance pressure, it won't extend(rebound) from the sag point with out being externally forced. Which means you bike is now only using 75% of its travel, but you do have whole new spring rate that will ramp up quicker because the positive chamber just got smaller.

A simple experiment to demonstrate this would be to leave the ball vale open and sit of the bike....
1. does the shock go to full travel?
2. does the shock rebound at all when you get off?


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

Bluman8 said:


> I like the ingenuity, but I don't think you can "tune" the neg pressure be varying the shock position when balancing. All this does is decrease the travel of the shock.
> If the pos and neg pressures are balanced at any point along the travel other than 0% the shock can't extend(rebound) beyond that point, because it's now the equilibrium point where the pos pressure is no longer greater than the neg pressure so it can extend the shock anymore.
> 
> If the shock is at a sag point 25% when you balance pressure, it won't extend(rebound) from the sag point with out being externally forced. Which means you bike is now only using 75% of its travel, but you do have whole new spring rate that will ramp up quicker because the positive chamber just got smaller.
> ...


Maybe the functionality might be hard to visualise from a photo, but the negative volume is only modified by adding air tube length and valve volume ( the small orrifice does mean that the extra volume isn't completely effective in a dynamic sitiuation though).
Wherever the ball valve is closed the negative and positive chambers are pressure balanced, a shock will be at equilibrium when the negative and positive side forces are balanced. This will usually be at a different shock displacement than the point of pressure balance (the key point being positive piston area>negative piston area). Most self balancing air springs pressure balance at 10-25% stroke, depending on what negative volume they run. A quick look at the position of the equalising dimple port on a Fox or RS shock will show this. Evol and debonair airsprings with higher neg volume will pressure equilise at more stroke.
In the case of my current setup the shock reaches full extension (and force equilibrium) when the pressures are equalised at ~6mm (12% stroke on the 50mm shock). I think it still needs more neg volume but is definitely better than the standard configuration. 
Manitou could do something similar and allow neg and pos to be pressurised during filling like on the Mattoc etc and reuse the "dorado" marketing label... or just go with the pack and put a bypass port in the aircan.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

sine waiver said:


> Maybe the functionality might be hard to visualise from a photo, but the negative volume is only modified by adding air tube length and valve volume ( the small orrifice does mean that the extra volume isn't completely effective in a dynamic sitiuation though).
> Wherever the ball valve is closed the negative and positive chambers are pressure balanced, a shock will be at equilibrium when the negative and positive side forces are balanced. This will usually be at a different shock displacement than the point of pressure balance (the key point being positive piston area>negative piston area). Most self balancing air springs pressure balance at 10-25% stroke, depending on what negative volume they run. A quick look at the position of the equalising dimple port on a Fox or RS shock will show this. Evol and debonair airsprings with higher neg volume will pressure equilise at more stroke.
> In the case of my current setup the shock reaches full extension (and force equilibrium) when the pressures are equalised at ~6mm (12% stroke on the 50mm shock). I think it still needs more neg volume but is definitely better than the standard configuration.
> Manitou could do something similar and allow neg and pos to be pressurised during filling like on the Mattoc etc and reuse the "dorado" marketing label... or just go with the pack and put a bypass port in the aircan.


Highly unlikely to ever see a manitou shock with a equalization dimple.


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

mullen119 said:


> Highly unlikely to ever see a manitou shock with a equalization dimple.


Oh well, I can hope for the former  . Though as it is, it is seems to easily offer the best value and is easy to servive, tune and modify so no real cause for complaint.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

sine waiver said:


> Oh well, I can hope for the former  . Though as it is, it is seems to easily offer the best value and is easy to servive, tune and modify so no real cause for complaint.


I agree with you that a self regulating negative chamber is the only thing the McLeod is missing. The dimple method is an unlikely solution for a few reasons. Hopefully Dougal makes some progress on his air can modification.


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## olao (Aug 17, 2017)

My brand new McLeod seems to have a problem with the IPA lever being too tight. The first click is smooth enough, and the second quite hard and the final click down to "aggressive climb" position is really tough, and it feels almost jammed. I have tried adjusting the grub screws, and taken out the vertical one and the spring (the ball doesn't come out), but it does not help. It is still really tight. The ball does not seem to be jammed, as without the spring there are no clicks and the first bit of the turn is smooth.

Is there a way to adjust or service this myself? Otherwise, as it is fresh out of the box, I guess I can send it back to where it came from and ask for a replacement.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

olao said:


> My brand new McLeod seems to have a problem with the IPA lever being too tight. The first click is smooth enough, and the second quite hard and the final click down to "aggressive climb" position is really tough, and it feels almost jammed. I have tried adjusting the grub screws, and taken out the vertical one and the spring (the ball doesn't come out), but it does not help. It is still really tight. The ball does not seem to be jammed, as without the spring there are no clicks and the first bit of the turn is smooth.
> 
> Is there a way to adjust or service this myself? Otherwise, as it is fresh out of the box, I guess I can send it back to where it came from and ask for a replacement.


The lever adjustment range is set by rotating the head on the shaft. There is a locknut up underneath you can see when the air-can is removed.

The seller should have sorted this for you. Too loose and you feel a shim knock. Too tight and the lever gets too firm at the higher IPA positions.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

olao said:


> My brand new McLeod seems to have a problem with the IPA lever being too tight. The first click is smooth enough, and the second quite hard and the final click down to "aggressive climb" position is really tough, and it feels almost jammed. I have tried adjusting the grub screws, and taken out the vertical one and the spring (the ball doesn't come out), but it does not help. It is still really tight. The ball does not seem to be jammed, as without the spring there are no clicks and the first bit of the turn is smooth.
> 
> Is there a way to adjust or service this myself? Otherwise, as it is fresh out of the box, I guess I can send it back to where it came from and ask for a replacement.


Generally speaking, that is normal. The IPA adjuster is putting physical preload on a shim stack. As you add preload, the amount of force needed to add more increases.

That said, it should not need excessive force to hit the 4th click. If you think it requires too much force, the IPA range can be adjusted with special tools and some knowledge of how the shock works. Adjusting the range to make it easier to hit the 4th click will make for a softer firmest setting. The easier thing to do if you want the range changed is e-mail [email protected] and tell them it takes a lot of force to hit the 4th click. They will adjust it as a warranty issue.


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## olao (Aug 17, 2017)

Thanks for your instant replies, Dougal and Mullen! I'm probably inclined to fix it myself then, as I might fiddle with the shim stack or other adjustments soon enough anyway. Bought online from Germany (I'm in Sweden), so mailing back or to service overseas is less interesting than opening it up and learn about it myself. Also, it has to be fixed, because I will use a remote, and currently there is no way the spring could turn the lever back when released.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

olao said:


> Thanks for your instant replies, Dougal and Mullen! I'm probably inclined to fix it myself then, as I might fiddle with the shim stack or other adjustments soon enough anyway. Bought online from Germany (I'm in Sweden), so mailing back or to service overseas is less interesting than opening it up and learn about it myself. Also, it has to be fixed, because I will use a remote, and currently there is no way the spring could turn the lever back when released.


I recommend using shaft clamps to hold the shaft so you don't lose track of position. Loosen the nut and index about 10 degrees at a time until you're happy. It's a fine adjustment for a big effect.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

olao said:


> Thanks for your instant replies, Dougal and Mullen! I'm probably inclined to fix it myself then, as I might fiddle with the shim stack or other adjustments soon enough anyway. Bought online from Germany (I'm in Sweden), so mailing back or to service overseas is less interesting than opening it up and learn about it myself. Also, it has to be fixed, because I will use a remote, and currently there is no way the spring could turn the lever back when released.


You don't need to fully take it apart to adjust the range. You need to release ifp pressure and have a slotted wrench tool for the lock nut that holds the damper shaft to tight to the eyelet. Once tight, the ifp needs filled to a minimum of 400psi if you use the lock out. 500psi is needed if you ride hard while locked.

There is a video from Manitou that shows the process. It mentions 300psi for ifp pressure, but that has since been shown to be too low.

You might be better off sending it back and getting a replacement.


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## olao (Aug 17, 2017)

Do I really need to release the IFP pressure to losen and tighten that nut a little? Why is that?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

olao said:


> Do I really need to release the IFP pressure to losen and tighten that nut a little? Why is that?


There is oil inside the damper shaft and it's under pressure from the ifp. When you loosen the eyelet/shaft interface, oil will be pushed out. You can damage the lock nut o ring as well because the oil can move the o ring and it can get pinched when tightening it back down.


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## olao (Aug 17, 2017)

Ok, that all makes sense. Given that I so far don't have the little 3-in-1 tool (seems really hard to find), it might still be easier to try to get a replacement from the vendor. Also, might need to invest in a new shock pump for 400 psi (the one I have has the numbers above 300 printed in red on the gauge...)


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

olao said:


> Ok, that all makes sense. Given that I so far don't have the little 3-in-1 tool (seems really hard to find), it might still be easier to try to get a replacement from the vendor. Also, might need to invest in a new shock pump for 400 psi (the one I have has the numbers above 300 printed in red on the gauge...)


I only run 325psi in mine, but I pretty much always run in full open and never more than 1 click in, so cavitation is not an issue for me. Anyone who rides in IPA positions 3 or 4 should run higher pressures to be safe. A pump that reads 400psi should be good enough for close to 450.


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Hi folks after reading a bit of this thread, I am inclineed to get a Mcleod-- if mainly to get the remote ipa lever function. I currently have a Monarch rl on a frame with 120mm rear wheel travel and 51mm of shock travel
I emailed the place where I purchased the frame and they thought it would not change the quality of the ride much.
I am about 190lb +
I don't get air but love rocky stuff
currently I have about 180psi in the shock which I find some what okay for everthing and no dampening

Do you guys thinks if this would be a worthwhile change?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

locominute said:


> Hi folks after reading a bit of this thread, I am inclineed to get a Mcleod-- if mainly to get the remote ipa lever function. I currently have a Monarch rl on a frame with 120mm rear wheel travel and 51mm of shock travel
> 
> Do you guys thinks if this would be a worthwhile change?


There is no comparison. The McLeod is simply amazing!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

has anybody use an older thumbshifter for the mcleod? vs dedicated remote?


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

locominute said:


> Hi folks after reading a bit of this thread, I am inclineed to get a Mcleod-- if mainly to get the remote ipa lever function. I currently have a Monarch rl on a frame with 120mm rear wheel travel and 51mm of shock travel
> I emailed the place where I purchased the frame and they thought it would not change the quality of the ride much.
> I am about 190lb +
> I don't get air but love rocky stuff
> ...


not quite the same, but I went from a Monarch RT to a McLeod and it was like R_P said, no comparison.
Since McLeods are not too expensive, it's a no brainer.
I don't use a remote for the shock, but FWIW the IPA is very good, firms it up without being harsh.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

fsrxc said:


> Depends on where you're getting "rebuild" from.
> If your seals seem sticky, start with removing the air can, clean then lube the seals (slick honey) then see if it's any better.
> I found removing the air can the first time a bit tough, since they're always tight from the factory, but at least the McLeod can has wrench flats.


I am finally getting around to this, I don't have the tools to remove the rings and put the back on. Can I just use slick honey on the rings without removing them? What size flat wrench does it take?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nashwillis said:


> I am finally getting around to this, I don't have the tools to remove the rings and put the back on. Can I just use slick honey on the rings without removing them? What size flat wrench does it take?


Yeah absolutely grease the seals and glide rings in place. I use a good adjustable wrench for the air-can as the tigher fit on the flats means no cosmetic damage.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

If running on Santa Cruz Hightower, should I opt for king can?

Anyone have experience running on HT?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> If running on Santa Cruz Hightower, should I opt for king can?
> 
> Anyone have experience running on HT?


TheRodFather in NZ reviewed a McLeod for us on his Hightower, brief review here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-mcleod-2161.html

But no king-can. The Hightower gets quite regressive and needs the ramp up at the end.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

The Rod Father eh? maybe He should be in the movies...

Thanks for the quick response.. so you really think this shock rivals the Fox X2? Sounds to good to be true..

Thanks


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

seamarsh said:


> The Rod Father eh? maybe He should be in the movies...
> 
> Thanks for the quick response.. so you really think this shock rivals the Fox X2? Sounds to good to be true..
> 
> Thanks


I'll go as far as to say it's better.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> The Rod Father eh? maybe He should be in the movies...
> 
> Thanks for the quick response.. so you really think this shock rivals the Fox X2? Sounds to good to be true..
> 
> Thanks


It's hard to do a direct comparison with the X2 as they're very different shocks. The X2 is bigger, heavier and has more adjustments.

The McLeod has IMO a better damper curve than any fox shock I've ridden. It's very light, compact, has a unique compression adjust that works very well and can be fully rebuilt at home.

The McLeod does need some upgrades for hard use. In particular higher viscosity index oil to keep the rebound consistent when it gets hot while worked hard.

I've done around 13km vertical on my McLeod 200x57 in the last month alone. 3 chairlift days included which repeatedly got it almost too hot to touch. No issues at all. I am running higher VI oil, my own modified air-can design and a different rebound shim stack. Otherwise stock and 3 years old.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Is anybody on here running one of these shocks on a Following V1? If so how does it feel?


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Just wanted to add to the choir, went from a monarch rt to a mcleod and the step in performance was 'shocking'. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Rngspnr said:


> Is anybody on here running one of these shocks on a Following V1? If so how does it feel?


A couple manitou employees are running them on followings. Not sure of the version though. The tune they are running is fairly close to stock. Should be a great fit


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

LOL... just looked at the start date of this thread and I have been riding my OG McLeod for almost 3yrs now (will be next month). We had a SUPER mild winter this year so riding really hasn't stopped for me to teardown the bike like I had planned.

Anyways, no issues with the shock so wondering if I should bother with doing a seal replacement on it or not? Dougal, you are the expert, what are your thoughts? Probably putting anywhere from 500 to 700 miles a year on it since purchase. Already have 40 miles and four rides on it. Plan to put at least another 10miles on it this week if not more as it is going to be in the 60s the next few weeks.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gregnash said:


> LOL... just looked at the start date of this thread and I have been riding my OG McLeod for almost 3yrs now (will be next month). We had a SUPER mild winter this year so riding really hasn't stopped for me to teardown the bike like I had planned.
> 
> Anyways, no issues with the shock so wondering if I should bother with doing a seal replacement on it or not? Dougal, you are the expert, what are your thoughts? Probably putting anywhere from 500 to 700 miles a year on it since purchase. Already have 40 miles and four rides on it. Plan to put at least another 10miles on it this week if not more as it is going to be in the 60s the next few weeks.


I would change the seals. At this point, they are getting pretty worn. It's preventive maintenance, so you don't need to see a leak to make it worth it doing. It's easy and cheap, no reason not to.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> I would change the seals. At this point, they are getting pretty worn. It's preventive maintenance, so you don't need to see a leak to make it worth it doing. It's easy and cheap, no reason not to.


Yeah that was kinda my thought process. Figure I got new seals for the fork, might as well add the shock in there and commence with the full teardown one weekend when I got the time. Thinking of moving to the RWC needle bearings for the shock as well seeing as I am still sporting the original DU bushings from the FOX that was originally on there.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

gregnash said:


> Yeah that was kinda my thought process. Figure I got new seals for the fork, might as well add the shock in there and commence with the full teardown one weekend when I got the time. Thinking of moving to the RWC needle bearings for the shock as well seeing as I am still sporting the original DU bushings from the FOX that was originally on there.


I was under the impression that the Fox DU bushings are slicker than a needle bearing. I'm sure they don't last as long, but for the price...


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Porch said:


> I was under the impression that the Fox DU bushings are slicker than a needle bearing. I'm sure they don't last as long, but for the price...


Never heard anything like that so can't really comment.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Porch said:


> I was under the impression that the Fox DU bushings are slicker than a needle bearing. I'm sure they don't last as long, but for the price...





gregnash said:


> Never heard anything like that so can't really comment.


Needle bearing sets rotate much smoother then any bushing set. Whether or not that is a benefit or not depends on linkage design of the bike it's going on. Some bikes have a lot rotation on the linkage side of the shock mount, others have very little. The frame mount side of shocks usually have very little rotation l. Most people only run needle bearings only on the linkage mount because of this, there just isn't a benefit to running them on both sides.

Personally, I used them a few times and didn't notice much of a difference. I think it's mostly a placebo effect. My bikes didn't have the rotation at the linkage that some do, but did have enough to convince me to try them.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> Needle bearing sets rotate much smoother then any bushing set. Whether or not that is a benefit or not depends on linkage design of the bike it's going on. Some bikes have a lot rotation on the linkage side of the shock mount, others have very little. The frame mount side of shocks usually have very little rotation l. Most people only run needle bearings only on the linkage mount because of this, there just isn't a benefit to running them on both sides.
> 
> Personally, I used them a few times and didn't notice much of a difference. I think it's mostly a placebo effect. My bikes didn't have the rotation at the linkage that some do, but did have enough to convince me to try them.


You could be right... My bike utilizes a horst link suspension (Ala 2014 Speshy FSR type) so the linkage side would be the only side that needed replacing if anything. Was just figuring that while I was planning to teardown the bike to do the seals I could replace this. I need to figure out what size they are and maybe just replace those with a new set. Sure they are probably cheaper than the RWC bearings (which run about $30 for the 22.2mm).


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I think it was actually Fox's marketing that made me think new DU bushings were close to needle bearings in terms of friction, so maybe that's not accurate. On the other hand, the RWC guy posted about the difference in one thread and he says that the needle bearings have "way less friction" which sounds more like marketing-speak than science. So who knows!

As was mentioned elsewhere I know that the needle bearings are only useful on bikes with lots of rotation at the linkage. My Canfield bikes certainly don't need them.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gregnash said:


> LOL... just looked at the start date of this thread and I have been riding my OG McLeod for almost 3yrs now (will be next month). We had a SUPER mild winter this year so riding really hasn't stopped for me to teardown the bike like I had planned.
> 
> Anyways, no issues with the shock so wondering if I should bother with doing a seal replacement on it or not? Dougal, you are the expert, what are your thoughts? Probably putting anywhere from 500 to 700 miles a year on it since purchase. Already have 40 miles and four rides on it. Plan to put at least another 10miles on it this week if not more as it is going to be in the 60s the next few weeks.


I would change the seals because over time they do get packed with dirt and that dirt can become abrasive.

It's preventative maintenance.

I need to do my original McLeod too. It's on Mrs Dougal's Intense.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Porch said:


> I was under the impression that the Fox DU bushings are slicker than a needle bearing. I'm sure they don't last as long, but for the price...


The Fox bushings now are made by a German company called IGUS. IGUS bushings are fantastic for friction and life but the performance and lifetime depends entirely on the details of fitment. You need hard and smooth pins with the correct tolerances. Something you don't find often in OEM shocks.

For about 12 years now I've been doing IGUS bushings on stainless steel pins. You've got to size them to within 0.02mm to get the best performance and life. Most shock makers can't drill eyelets to within 5x tolerance that so I have 5 different pin grades and still machine up pins for shocks outside that range.

Once done right like that it's good for the life of the bike for most riders. The highest wearing bikes that do the most miles usually get years where they used to get weeks or months. If they do wear out the bushing protects the hard pin so another bushing and you're good to go.
I do a 12 month performance warranty that I've never been called on. A few Santa Cruz owners have worn the first bushing out in a little over 2 years.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Well ordered the standard seal kit from Universal Cycles today and should be here sometime next week. Got everything, I think, that is needed to do the full teardown of the bike. Even got a new chainring (stepping up to 34t oval from standard 32t) and chain coming. 

I do not have the special wrench for the McLeod can, but a standard adjustable wrench or strap/pipe wrench should work fine right?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gregnash said:


> Well ordered the standard seal kit from Universal Cycles today and should be here sometime next week. Got everything, I think, that is needed to do the full teardown of the bike. Even got a new chainring (stepping up to 34t oval from standard 32t) and chain coming.
> 
> I do not have the special wrench for the McLeod can, but a standard adjustable wrench or strap/pipe wrench should work fine right?


I use a strap wrench, works perfect


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

@Dougal... Dumb question but can a 190x50 McLeod be stopped down to 190x45? Looking at building a new bike in the near future and it calls for a 190x45 (for the 120mm version) or a 200x57 (for the 140mm version). Looking to purchase a Cotic bike, either the FlareMax or RocketMax (can't decide) and really want to run a Mattoc up front but am limited depending on the bike (either possibly not enough rear travel with the new Mattoc Pro up front or have to go with another as I would want more travel to match the longer rear travel, which I usually like to run atleast 10mm more or more).

I know, first world problems.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gregnash said:


> @Dougal... Dumb question but can a 190x50 McLeod be stopped down to 190x45? Looking at building a new bike in the near future and it calls for a 190x45 (for the 120mm version) or a 200x57 (for the 140mm version). Looking to purchase a Cotic bike, either the FlareMax or RocketMax (can't decide) and really want to run a Mattoc up front but am limited depending on the bike (either possibly not enough rear travel with the new Mattoc Pro up front or have to go with another as I would want more travel to match the longer rear travel, which I usually like to run atleast 10mm more or more).
> 
> I know, first world problems.


You can add 5mm of bottom out bumpers or a spacer under the bumper to achieve a 190x45. This will add air volume at full compression, so you may end up needing to add a volume spacer to the air spring to compensate.

I have set people up with 27.5 mattoc pro's set at 120mm travel on biked with 100mm rear. Its not to much fork for any bike.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> You can add 5mm of bottom out bumpers or a spacer under the bumper to achieve a 190x45. This will add air volume at full compression, so you may end up needing to add a volume spacer to the air spring to compensate.
> 
> I have set people up with 27.5 mattoc pro's set at 120mm travel on biked with 100mm rear. Its not to much fork for any bike.


This. I wouldnt have any issue running 20-25mm more travel in the front compared to the rear.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

R_Pierce said:


> This. I wouldnt have any issue running 20-25mm more travel in the front compared to the rear.


Right, that is not my concern. My concern is more based around whether the 120mm rear travel would be enough for the trails I ride in the Tahoe area. My normal trails here in Carson City have only a couple spots where I come close to bottoming out the 130mm rear. I am sure that the 120mm would probably be just fine for most of what I ride but it is those times where I ride Mr. Toads, Upper/Lower Corral, etc. in the Tahoe area that I need that extra suspension.

But there is a new contender!!! Just saw on the the Steel is Real instagram that Stanton Bikes will be releasing a Switch9er full suspension steel bike this year that uses Reynolds 651 instead of the 853 of the Cotic. So waiting on finding specs on that and pricing (Cotic frame will be about $2k shipped).


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

gregnash said:


> Right, that is not my concern. My concern is more based around whether the 120mm rear travel would be enough for the trails I ride in the Tahoe area. My normal trails here in Carson City have only a couple spots where I come close to bottoming out the 130mm rear. I am sure that the 120mm would probably be just fine for most of what I ride but it is those times where I ride Mr. Toads, Upper/Lower Corral, etc. in the Tahoe area that I need that extra suspension.
> 
> But there is a new contender!!! Just saw on the the Steel is Real instagram that Stanton Bikes will be releasing a Switch9er full suspension steel bike this year that uses Reynolds 651 instead of the 853 of the Cotic. So waiting on finding specs on that and pricing (Cotic frame will be about $2k shipped).


Ah. I got yah.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

R_Pierce said:


> Ah. I got yah.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Yeah as I run it right now my setup is 150/130 f/r for travel. Going to drop down the front to 140 just because my frame really isn't designed for it though the last month and a half of riding that I have done on it has been just fine that way. For some reason running the same travel front and back seems weird to me (yes have done it for a bit, didnt realize that my fork was setup that way originally from the factory) so want to go at least 10mm more in the front.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gregnash said:


> @Dougal... Dumb question but can a 190x50 McLeod be stopped down to 190x45? Looking at building a new bike in the near future and it calls for a 190x45 (for the 120mm version) or a 200x57 (for the 140mm version). Looking to purchase a Cotic bike, either the FlareMax or RocketMax (can't decide) and really want to run a Mattoc up front but am limited depending on the bike (either possibly not enough rear travel with the new Mattoc Pro up front or have to go with another as I would want more travel to match the longer rear travel, which I usually like to run atleast 10mm more or more).
> 
> I know, first world problems.


You want 190x45 or 185x45?

185x45 I've done a few, have the spacers here to go under the top-out bumper in the can: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html

4 of them reduce a 190x50 to 185x45mm. 8 of them could reduce a 200x57 to 190x47mm.

I'm running a 170mm Mattoc Pro Boost 27" on a 150mm frame.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Frames that I am looking at are Cotic FlareMAX (190x45) or the RocketMAX (200x57). The MAX name comes from the ability for them to run both 27.5+ and 29, of which I would go 29er. From emailing with the guys at Cotic, the FlareMAX is actually 122mm of travel (instead of the advertised 120mm) and could possibly fit a 190x50 but would risk the back tire hitting the seat tube on bottom outs. 

If I were to build one of these bikes ($2100+ US for me to get it, so would be a build next year) I would want to go with a full Manitou kit, meaning McLeod back and Mattoc front. But main issue is that the Mattoc 27.5+/29 Boost does not "easily" go past 140mm of travel. It would fit the FlareMAX fine, but I am concerned that the 120mm of rear travel may not be enough for my local area rides. The RocketMAX is rated for a fork that is 140-160mm with the Mattoc falling in at 140. First world problem is that I like to run 10mm more front than rear (I know, I know).


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gregnash said:


> Frames that I am looking at are Cotic FlareMAX (190x45) or the RocketMAX (200x57). The MAX name comes from the ability for them to run both 27.5+ and 29, of which I would go 29er. From emailing with the guys at Cotic, the FlareMAX is actually 122mm of travel (instead of the advertised 120mm) and could possibly fit a 190x50 but would risk the back tire hitting the seat tube on bottom outs.
> 
> If I were to build one of these bikes ($2100+ US for me to get it, so would be a build next year) I would want to go with a full Manitou kit, meaning McLeod back and Mattoc front. But main issue is that the Mattoc 27.5+/29 Boost does not "easily" go past 140mm of travel. It would fit the FlareMAX fine, but I am concerned that the 120mm of rear travel may not be enough for my local area rides. The RocketMAX is rated for a fork that is 140-160mm with the Mattoc falling in at 140. First world problem is that I like to run 10mm more front than rear (I know, I know).


Odd that they designed their bike around a non-standard shock size! But a McLeod can be built up to suit either spec.

What rubber do you plan to run?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Odd that they designed their bike around a non-standard shock size! But a McLeod can be built up to suit either spec.
> 
> What rubber do you plan to run?


Yeah I asked the same question.... Cy's response was it is based on the new Metric standard, not custom or odd tune. Whatever..

Plan on going 29er with my standard rubber which is currently Vittoria Goma 2.4 front and Vittoria Martello 2.35 rear, both on WTB i29 rims laced to DT Swiss 350 hubs (will have to put on the hub extenders for boost.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gregnash said:


> Yeah I asked the same question.... Cy's response was it is based on the new Metric standard, not custom or odd tune. Whatever..
> 
> Plan on going 29er with my standard rubber which is currently Vittoria Goma 2.4 front and Vittoria Martello 2.35 rear, both on WTB i29 rims laced to DT Swiss 350 hubs (will have to put on the hub extenders for boost.


Either way you go, it's not a big deal to reach what you are looking for. Shortening the stroke of a McLeod will be officially allowed by manitou, extending a mattoc won't be. Slightly easier to extend the mattoc though. Either Dougal or I can help set you up with what you need to know when the time comes.


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

Anybody run one of these on a Commencal Meta V4?

The stock RT3 was never great, but obviously, any suspension is better than nothing, so long as you can pedal it (...IMO). But it's overdue for service...and I really would like to finally rid myself of the last SRAM piece on my bike (fork, brakes, and drivetrain got swapped...really getting a Bike of Theseus thing going).

I would assume a fairly average 4-bar setup would work fine with a standard volume McLeod, but I don't know if something else would be a better fit. It's 200x57.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

phuchmileif said:


> Anybody run one of these on a Commencal Meta V4?
> 
> The stock RT3 was never great, but obviously, any suspension is better than nothing, so long as you can pedal it (...IMO). But it's overdue for service...and I really would like to finally rid myself of the last SRAM piece on my bike (fork, brakes, and drivetrain got swapped...really getting a Bike of Theseus thing going).
> 
> I would assume a fairly average 4-bar setup would work fine with a standard volume McLeod, but I don't know if something else would be a better fit. It's 200x57.


I don't know of anyone using a McLeod on a Commencal, but I also can't think of a bike that it hasn't been a good fit on. I think you will be impressed with it if you end up getting one. If you get one, tell us what you think.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> I don't know of anyone using a McLeod on a Commencal, but I also can't think of a bike that it hasn't been a good fit on. I think you will be impressed with it if you end up getting one. If you get one, tell us what you think.


Four bar suspension is similar to Horst Link correct? While I am sure that the kinematics are different, it is just a modified Horst Link?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

mullen119 said:


> I don't know of anyone using a McLeod on a Commencal, but I also can't think of a bike that it hasn't been a good fit on. I think you will be impressed with it if you end up getting one. If you get one, tell us what you think.


It has a pretty progressive linkage ratio so will work best with a King Can.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

gregnash said:


> Four bar suspension is similar to Horst Link correct? While I am sure that the kinematics are different, it is just a modified Horst Link?


I think Horst is considered a type of four bar? I'm unclear; I usually just call anything with one pivot near the BB and one pivot near the axle a 'four bar'. IIRC Horst implies specifically that the pivot is on the chain stay side of the axle, right? Commencal's is on the seat stay.

I'll probably give the stock McLeod a chance. There are no factory tunes of this shock, right? As in, there's only one P/N per size; no light/medium/heavy damper tunes? And you have to do the king can upgrade yourself, right? So no point in not just trying the regular one first?


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

non-edit: had to go read up on my suspension types; this stuff gets a bit muddy...

So Commencal is considered a 'faux bar,' I guess? Which I guess is like a glorified linkage-driven single pivot (...and of course, everyone calls _that_ just a 'glorified single pivot'). I guess I didn't get this because 'faux bar' is obviously not a flattering term, and no one ever wants to say 'single pivot.' Funny, because this bike DOES pedal very well; supposedly way better than the V3 Commencal, which was itself a clever twist on a single pivot (same style linkage as the V4 from the main pivot to the rocker, but the shock connected back to the chain stay instead of the frame).

...kinda makes you wonder if all this MTB marketing jazz is just a bunch of bullshit.  Obviously there are single pivot variations with excellent trail manners. And I'm sure someone's managed to make a Horst or VPP bike that sucks.

Anyway...'single pivot' still only refers to the wheel path, right? I.e. some designs are more progressive than others, depending on how the swingarm ends up interacting with the shock...and the only way to truly understand this would be to just model it, right?

What's an example of a popular bike with relatively linear rear suspension?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

phuchmileif said:


> non-edit: had to go read up on my suspension types; this stuff gets a bit muddy...
> 
> So Commencal is considered a 'faux bar,' I guess? Which I guess is like a glorified linkage-driven single pivot (...and of course, everyone calls _that_ just a 'glorified single pivot'). I guess I didn't get this because 'faux bar' is obviously not a flattering term, and no one ever wants to say 'single pivot.' Funny, because this bike DOES pedal very well; supposedly way better than the V3 Commencal, which was itself a clever twist on a single pivot (same style linkage as the V4 from the main pivot to the rocker, but the shock connected back to the chain stay instead of the frame).
> 
> ...


There was a time when the issue of single pivot v. horst link (the only four bar of the time) was a big issue. Single pivots were regressive and had to have major compromises when designed, while the early horst link was focused on being entirely neutral with zero chain growth, so they tended to wallow around.

It is no longer 1998. We have a multitude of 4 bar designs (VPP, DW Link, Maestro, Horst, Canfield Formula, and the list goes on). We also have many linkage actuated single pivots, a few popular ones are on Kona and Evil, as well as Commencal. As time has marched on, full suspension bike (excluding downhill to some degree), have centered in on antisquat numbers in the 80-120% range and linear to progressive suspension design, and obsession with zero chain growth and 0% antisquat has disappeared, as they really don't work well at the end of the day. There are also less compromises in design with the move to double and now mostly single chainrings, as a designer does not have the huge range of antiquat that a triple front crankset brings. These modern suspension kinematics can be accomplished with nearly any design (look at how hot people are about Evil bikes, they are a linkage actuated single pivot design).

So at the end of the day, what suspension design is in use is very minor part of a bike. The tuning of suspension is far more important, as is geometry. For most people the biggest question with suspension comes down to if they prefer a more linear suspension or more progressive. In general, as bikes are intended for more aggressive use, their suspension will be more progressive, but like everything this is manufacture dependent (look at Yeti, which is very linear even in their enduro bike). Shock tuning also has a significant effect on the progressive feel and even more drastic is the basic setup of the bike (air pressure, rebound settings, tire pressure).


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## hurck (Apr 26, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> I would change the seals. At this point, they are getting pretty worn. It's preventive maintenance, so you don't need to see a leak to make it worth it doing. It's easy and cheap, no reason not to.


Mine is about 2 years old, but there are 2 kits available: the air seal can kit and the full one. Which should i use? Is only the air can kit sufficient? Or do i do the full one when i already have the shock opened up.

I have no issues whatsoever but perhaps it's better to stay ahead of troubles and do the service now while the weather is still too bad to ride


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

hurck said:


> Mine is about 2 years old, but there are 2 kits available: the air seal can kit and the full one. Which should i use? Is only the air can kit sufficient? Or do i do the full one when i already have the shock opened up.
> 
> I have no issues whatsoever but perhaps it's better to stay ahead of troubles and do the service now while the weather is still too bad to ride


Just get the air can kit. The other kit is also for damper rebuild which most people won't do at home.

You won't realize it because it happens slowly, but the air can seals wear and cause negative air chamber pressure loss which makes tge shock less sensitive. A rebuild will reset the pressure and new seals will keep the air where it should be for longer. It will feel like a new shock


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

phuchmileif said:


> Anybody run one of these on a Commencal Meta V4?
> 
> The stock RT3 was never great, but obviously, any suspension is better than nothing, so long as you can pedal it (...IMO). But it's overdue for service...and I really would like to finally rid myself of the last SRAM piece on my bike (fork, brakes, and drivetrain got swapped...really getting a Bike of Theseus thing going).
> 
> I would assume a fairly average 4-bar setup would work fine with a standard volume McLeod, but I don't know if something else would be a better fit. It's 200x57.


Yeah a mate has one with a Monarch and Mattoc. Nice handling bike.

I can't remember volume we were running in his air-can, but it was king-can. He was away all summer so it's been a while since we rode together.

1x drivetrains have been a big help in levelling out suspension designs. Horst link used to be the only real way to get an effective main pivot high enough. But with no front derailleur in the way and chainrings 30-34T it's easy. Braking is still a big difference.

I still ride 3x. It annoys some people.:headphones:


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## hurck (Apr 26, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> Just get the air can kit. The other kit is also for damper rebuild which most people won't do at home.
> 
> You won't realize it because it happens slowly, but the air can seals wear and cause negative air chamber pressure loss which makes tge shock less sensitive. A rebuild will reset the pressure and new seals will keep the air where it should be for longer. It will feel like a new shock


Thanks for your reply. I have no problem with doing a full service at home  I performed a full rebuild on my rockshox dampers before. But if the aircan service is sufficient i'll only do that


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I did the air can service last week and it probably took me 30 minutes and that was probably more futzing with things than anything. Did it in my office with the rebuild video going. The Lanyard thing REALLY helps and my seals were really stuck in there. Bought myself a pick like Zac has in the video (few bucks from amazon) and it worked fine. We got a bunch of snow over the weekend so doesn't look like I will be riding for a bit (welcome to miracle march?!).


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## wookiem (Mar 10, 2018)

Hi,

I've fitted this shock to my orange 5, replacing rs rt3 debonair, and it's been brilliant, made the back of the bike really lively when you want it and stiff for the climbs. Today at Bike Park Wales I noticed that it was only going through 3/4 of the travel and bottoming out hard. I've skim read the thread and advice seems to be a complete rebuild for this problem. I'm in the UK, can anyone recommend a service centre? I'm reasonably good with the tools and could have a go, you tube tutorials and service kits? Cheers, wookie


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

wookiem said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've fitted this shock to my orange 5, replacing rs rt3 debonair, and it's been brilliant, made the back of the bike really lively when you want it and stiff for the climbs. Today at Bike Park Wales I noticed that it was only going through 3/4 of the travel and bottoming out hard. I've skim read the thread and advice seems to be a complete rebuild for this problem. I'm in the UK, can anyone recommend a service centre? I'm reasonably good with the tools and could have a go, you tube tutorials and service kits? Cheers, wookie


The ifp seal is worn and the ifp is raised because of it. Full rebuild is the answer. I'm not familiar with UK service centers, but it's fairy easy to do at home and the seal you need is part of the full rebuild kit.

You can also send it to dougal at shockcraft suspension in NZ, Or email [email protected] and ask for service center recommendations near you.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

wookiem said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've fitted this shock to my orange 5, replacing rs rt3 debonair, and it's been brilliant, made the back of the bike really lively when you want it and stiff for the climbs. Today at Bike Park Wales I noticed that it was only going through 3/4 of the travel and bottoming out hard. I've skim read the thread and advice seems to be a complete rebuild for this problem. I'm in the UK, can anyone recommend a service centre? I'm reasonably good with the tools and could have a go, you tube tutorials and service kits? Cheers, wookie


Are you getting the piston hitting the IFP before full travel? They are easy to work on and Manitou have a service video. They also have a thing called "Dougal's cheat method" but the video is probably easier to follow:






You'll need a 300psi shock pump and the manitou IFP keychain tool. It has the 5 sided tool to remove the IFP cap, a valve tool to remove the core and the adapter to pump it back up. All in one tool: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/ifp-valve-tool-keychain-manitou.html

Oil is 15cSt. The manitou video method sets IFP depth for you.


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## wookiem (Mar 10, 2018)

Thanks Mullen/Dougal,

I really hope I can get this fixed, has been a revolution on my 5

Dougal, yes - I think. Not sure what it was hitting, sounds like it was the IFP. Just not going through all the travel, tried letting all the air out and compressing the shock only to stop at the same point.

I'll contact Hayes and see what they can suggest. 3 in 1 tool and a service kit please. Fingers crossed.


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

I've seen somewhere McLeod IFP piston with glide ring and seal, is that new version to avoid what happened to wookiem (and 3x to myself)? 
I'm thinking about buying McLeod again, but not until the IFP issues are solved.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

RoboS said:


> I've seen somewhere McLeod IFP piston with glide ring and seal, is that new version to avoid what happened to wookiem (and 3x to myself)?
> I'm thinking about buying McLeod again, but not until the IFP issues are solved.


The ifp issue was solved a few years ago. No glide ring needed.

I have worked with manitou on the McLeod for a couple years now and have heard nothing about the ifp issues for a long time. The ifp seal is a wear item, just like any other seal, so it will need replaced eventually or possibly cause issues. Any issues that pop up now would be either from a old shock with old (silver) ifp or a heavily used shock due for a damper service.

You can buy a new shock and be worry free. Though if you find one for a crazy low price, it may be an old stock 2015 they are trying to get rid of.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> I've seen somewhere McLeod IFP piston with glide ring and seal, is that new version to avoid what happened to wookiem (and 3x to myself)?
> I'm thinking about buying McLeod again, but not until the IFP issues are solved.


As Mullen said, that was about 3 years ago. Original IFP was silver, replacements are red.

I need to update the photos, but this rebuild kit now comes with a new IFP: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-complete-seal-kit-manitou.html


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks for answers. IFP seal was the main issue I had with all 3 shocks I had. Each of them failed in less than month of riding. 

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RoboS said:


> Thanks for answers. IFP seal was the main issue I had with all 3 shocks I had. Each of them failed in less than month of riding.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


I suspect a lot of mail-order type retailers didn't upgrade the IFP in their stock. They just sent them out and left the customer to deal with it.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Dougal said:


> I suspect a lot of mail-order type retailers didn't upgrade the IFP in their stock. They just sent them out and left the customer to deal with it.


But the good news is that if you contact Manitou, they take care of it. I had one fail and another that hadn't, they had me send both in to get them fixed after I provided the serial numbers. Unlike some other manufactures, Manitou will actually replace a part with known issues before it fails.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Cary said:


> But the good news is that if you contact Manitou, they take care of it. I had one fail and another that hadn't, they had me send both in to get them fixed after I provided the serial numbers. Unlike some other manufactures, Manitou will actually replace a part with known issues before it fails.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I am aware of their excellent customer service. They replaced my first shock just based on s/n and invoice copy

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


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## Mackmountain (May 2, 2016)

I see earlier on this page about reducing shock size using spacers. Could get a second hand mcloud for a steal but shock is 200x57. If I understand correctly using spacers wont work reducing it to a 200x50 because the eye to eye will reduce as well. There’s no other internal adjustment that will keep the eye to eye at 200? Just trying to work out if the opportunity is there. Otherwise might have to stump up the ponies for the correct one, already have one on last bike, really really good shock!


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Mackmountain said:


> I see earlier on this page about reducing shock size using spacers. Could get a second hand mcloud for a steal but shock is 200x57. If I understand correctly using spacers wont work reducing it to a 200x50 because the eye to eye will reduce as well. There's no other internal adjustment that will keep the eye to eye at 200? Just trying to work out if the opportunity is there. Otherwise might have to stump up the ponies for the correct one, already have one on last bike, really really good shock!


You can technically do it by adding 7mm of bottom.out bumper. That requires taking the shock apart a d doing a full rebuild.

The issue with doing this (opposed to spacers in the negative chamber that reduces eye 2 eye and stroke) is that the spring volume at full compression increases and it will be easier to bottom out. You can reduce the volume to compensate, but manitou doesn't make volume reducers so you would need to get creative.


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## Mackmountain (May 2, 2016)

Thanks, that’s the info I was looking for. Best get the right shock to start with if that’s the case. Currently running debonair with positive and negative stuffed full, would prefer not to start back down that road again.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Well I have to say, with so much hyperbole on mtbr about what works and what doesn't this manitou mcleod has totally surpassed my expectations! 

I only have one ride on it, riding a OG Hightower, but my god the difference in performance compared to the stock Monarch RT is insane!

Side note on RWC: I saw someone earlier in thread talking about running an RWC bearing on it. I tried to use the one I had in the monarch and it was too loose. contacted RWC and they told me once you press in the needle bearing cup and leave it in for extended period of time, when you take it out it will not have enough spring to get back to original shape, So I ordered a new one, only 6.95 on their site.

Anyway, even with out the needle bearing this thing was un believably responsive!

I have a question about PSI, is there a rough body weight to PSI formula people are using? I was running about 110psi and I weight 155ish out of the shower. Seemed pretty good, just not used to running that little pressure.. also running standard can.


Anyway thanks to everyone in the forum for info on this, just surprised more people do not run them. I honestly think people are hung up on piggy back shocks and will not even give this a look, because it doesn't look beefy enough!


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

seamarsh said:


> Anyway thanks to everyone in the forum for info on this, just surprised more people do not run them. I honestly think people are hung up on piggy back shocks and will not even give this a look, because it doesn't look beefy enough!


I get a lot of weird reactions when i recommend them to buddies. "That thing? On your enduro bike? Uh...okay...yeah, sure, i'll look into it"


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah, even just doing the regular old can seal replacement has yielded that the shock feels brand new for me. Can't tell you how many people I have run across and have said similar things @Porch.... Usually it's "Manitou huh?! I didn't eve know they were still in business after all that garbage they put out years ago." 

@seamarsh - I think the PSI really depends more on the rider and the suspension type of the bike it is on. I am on a Stumpy FSR clone and run about the same PSI as you but I am 180lbs out of the shower. Bike mainly sits in "Aggressive Climb" mode with a switch to "Aggressive Trail" when I am pointed down. Rarely ever have it to full lock or full open, haven't felt a need. Think that between the regular can and the King Can for all the different (yet pretty similar) kinematics for trail and enduro bikes these days it can fit the spectrum pretty well.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

seamarsh said:


> Well I have to say, with so much hyperbole on mtbr about what works and what doesn't this manitou mcleod has totally surpassed my expectations!
> 
> I only have one ride on it, riding a OG Hightower, but my god the difference in performance compared to the stock Monarch RT is insane!
> 
> ...


It is surprising. I bought the McLeod to act as a cheap replacement for my Pushed RP23. Was absolutely shocked at how much better the stock McLeod was. At first I thought my RP23 needed to be serviced but even after service and a retune it did not compare...


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

gregnash said:


> Yeah, even just doing the regular old can seal replacement has yielded that the shock feels brand new for me. Can't tell you how many people I have run across and have said similar things @Porch.... Usually it's "Manitou huh?! I didn't eve know they were still in business after all that garbage they put out years ago."
> 
> @seamarsh - I think the PSI really depends more on the rider and the suspension type of the bike it is on. I am on a Stumpy FSR clone and run about the same PSI as you but I am 180lbs out of the shower. Bike mainly sits in "Aggressive Climb" mode with a switch to "Aggressive Trail" when I am pointed down. Rarely ever have it to full lock or full open, haven't felt a need. Think that between the regular can and the King Can for all the different (yet pretty similar) kinematics for trail and enduro bikes these days it can fit the spectrum pretty well.


Makes sense on PSI. when you are measuring sag your are going for about 17mm to the rubber band? is that correct? seems like that is about 25% sag


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> Makes sense on PSI. when you are measuring sag your are going for about 17mm to the rubber band? is that correct? seems like that is about 25% sag


Forget sag, use frequency: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/suspension-setup


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Forget sag, use frequency: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/suspension-setup


I do that, but usually after I set sag. Then fine tune like you said. Not sure I could set psi just based on frequency? Seems like I'd get some strange readings.


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## Diddo (Dec 8, 2014)

Cary said:


> It has a pretty progressive linkage ratio so will work best with a King Can.


I think the Commencal Meta AM V4 works best with a small air chamber. Have been running it for almost a year now with a McLeod w/ standard can.

Leverage ratio is progressive-degressive (2.9-2.5-2.6) and can be found here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oyrfuufFX...9Pw/s1600/Commencal+Meta+V4+2015_LevRatio.gif


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Diddo said:


> I think the Commencal Meta AM V4 works best with a small air chamber. Have been running it for almost a year now with a McLeod w/ standard can.
> 
> Leverage ratio is progressive-degressive (2.9-2.5-2.6) and can be found here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oyrfuufFX...9Pw/s1600/Commencal+Meta+V4+2015_LevRatio.gif


You are correct. For some reason I had it in my mind that frame was super progressive.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## RoboS (Aug 16, 2008)

Diddo said:


> I think the Commencal Meta AM V4 works best with a small air chamber. Have been running it for almost a year now with a McLeod w/ standard can.
> 
> Leverage ratio is progressive-degressive (2.9-2.5-2.6) and can be found here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oyrfuufFX...9Pw/s1600/Commencal+Meta+V4+2015_LevRatio.gif


Yes, I had McLeod on Commencal Meta v4 for a very short time. Standard air can was just right for me (used all the travel without bottoming)

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

gregnash said:


> Frames that I am looking at are Cotic FlareMAX (190x45) or the RocketMAX (200x57). The MAX name comes from the ability for them to run both 27.5+ and 29, of which I would go 29er. From emailing with the guys at Cotic, the FlareMAX is actually 122mm of travel (instead of the advertised 120mm) and could possibly fit a 190x50 but would risk the back tire hitting the seat tube on bottom outs.
> 
> If I were to build one of these bikes ($2100+ US for me to get it, so would be a build next year) I would want to go with a full Manitou kit, meaning McLeod back and Mattoc front. But main issue is that the Mattoc 27.5+/29 Boost does not "easily" go past 140mm of travel. It would fit the FlareMAX fine, but I am concerned that the 120mm of rear travel may not be enough for my local area rides. The RocketMAX is rated for a fork that is 140-160mm with the Mattoc falling in at 140. First world problem is that I like to run 10mm more front than rear (I know, I know).


Perhaps you should wait with buying the Manitou kit until autumn. this year there might be some interesting updates for the mcleod and a longtravel 29er I guess ;-)


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

bansaiman said:


> Perhaps you should wait with buying the Manitou kit until autumn. this year there might be some interesting updates for the mcleod and a longtravel 29er I guess ;-)


Interesting, I had not head this yet. I had only heard that we MAY hear some new by sea otter.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

bansaiman said:


> Perhaps you should wait with buying the Manitou kit until autumn. this year there might be some interesting updates for the mcleod and a longtravel 29er I guess ;-)


Oh yeah dont worry the new bike isn't happening until NEXT year (2019) so waiting to see if there are some changes was already in the works. Current bike and setup is still killing it (nicknamed Triple S or Singletrack Shred Sled). Only had one ride on the McLeod after doing the can seals and it felt great. Need to buy Dougal's little tool and then get a full rebuild kit to tear it completely down and replace ALL the seals.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

bansaiman said:


> Perhaps you should wait with buying the Manitou kit until autumn. this year there might be some interesting updates for the mcleod and a longtravel 29er I guess ;-)


Well, this sounds interesting! Can you provide a little bit more detail.


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## rushy41 (Feb 21, 2007)

So I installed a McLeod (standard can) on my Banshee Phantom - also to have slightly more rear travel. After 2 days of riding I am really impressed - this shock is damn good! Love the 4 position adjustment - was in the 2nd position most of the time,even on gnarlier sections. A very unterrated shock!


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## Mackmountain (May 2, 2016)

Mackmountain said:


> I see earlier on this page about reducing shock size using spacers. Could get a second hand mcloud for a steal but shock is 200x57. If I understand correctly using spacers wont work reducing it to a 200x50 because the eye to eye will reduce as well. There's no other internal adjustment that will keep the eye to eye at 200? Just trying to work out if the opportunity is there. Otherwise might have to stump up the ponies for the correct one, already have one on last bike, really really good shock!


Found many examples of people running the longer stroke without issues so took a chance. Was very cheap and already had bushings (had extra spares made for McLeod on my other bike) so it was a simple case of plug and play.

This Replaced a monarch r debonair on a vpp bike. I could not get the debonair to do what I wanted. Needed huge pressures to even get 30% sag and resulted in only getting 65% travel on a good day (100kgish kitted up). Plus bucking was near impossible to control. 
Because the vpp is regressive to about 30% the debonairs negative spring was doubling up on the sag point hence the need for high pos pressures (this is how I explain it anyways)
Stuffed both pos + neg cans with spacers which moved everything in the right direction but would still only get 80% travel.

Hence waned to try a shock with regular can and no larger negative spring. I know this shock is brilliant in my older Rocky Mountain but was unsure if my hunch for a standard air can with normal negative was correct for the vpp.

I am happy to say this setup works very well. Running in ipa 2 or 3 (up or down) at 130psi rebound about half way. Using all travel and no bucking. Will not go back from here (p.s. rebound circuit has to be felt to be believed, really impressive).


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## toniha (Mar 27, 2018)

*King Can or not King can.*

Hello smart ones,

I just ordered a Dartmoor Bluebird single pivot frame and 190x50 McLeod for that. Frame has 130 mm travel and ratio looks like this
View attachment Dartmoor_Bluebird_frames and bikes_leverage.pdf

What do you think. Would I benefit from King Can or is it just waste of money?

Thanks already,
Toni


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

toniha said:


> Hello smart ones,
> 
> I just ordered a Dartmoor Bluebird single pivot frame and 190x50 McLeod for that. Frame has 130 mm travel and ratio looks like this
> View attachment 1189795
> ...


I say try the normal can first and if you feel you are ramping up too fast, try the king can.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

toniha said:


> Hello smart ones,
> 
> I just ordered a Dartmoor Bluebird single pivot frame and 190x50 McLeod for that. Frame has 130 mm travel and ratio looks like this
> View attachment 1189795
> ...


That's a relatively small change in leverage ratio, and for all intents and purposes, would be considered linear. The standard can would be best. You may even end up reducing volume slightly


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Little bit off topic but I had such good luck installing the Mcleod was curious if Manitou mattoc is a sleeper like the Mcleod is?

Dougal: You seem to have a lot of Manitou knowledge, would you recommend a Mattoc or another brand to be paired with Mcleod?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

seamarsh said:


> Little bit off topic but I had such good luck installing the Mcleod was curious if Manitou mattoc is a sleeper like the Mcleod is?
> 
> Dougal: You seem to have a lot of Manitou knowledge, would you recommend a Mattoc or another brand to be paired with Mcleod?


The Mattoc is an amazing fork and pairs well with the Mcleod. In my opinion, it has the best damper on the market and the best 34mm chassis as its as stiff as most 35mm forks.

I wouldnt call it a sleeper though, its very well regarded


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Thanks for reply. 

As far as sleeper, I just meant I’m on the west coast Northern California and do not see anyone running manitou anything ever, nor are they ever mentioned. Maybe they don’t have as much distribution here? or maybe because fox is here idk. 

I’ll check out Mattoc next time sale season comes around.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

seamarsh said:


> Thanks for reply.
> 
> As far as sleeper, I just meant I'm on the west coast Northern California and do not see anyone running manitou anything ever, nor are they ever mentioned. Maybe they don't have as much distribution here? or maybe because fox is here idk.
> 
> I'll check out Mattoc next time sale season comes around.


Think it is more because of the presence of FOX and other brands due to the whole outdoor scenario. Been running my McLeod since they first were released and have had multiple people ask me about it. Even had my buddy take it for a test ride when I first put it on and he was amazed. Manitou has earned my trust and money over the years with their products and Customer Service.

Next bike will be a McLeod, Mattoc and possibly a Jack with Answer products filling in other gaps. Unfortunately, I have not found a rim from Sun Ringle that I really liked nor have I found great things on the Hayes brakes. But they will get my money elsewhere.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> Little bit off topic but I had such good luck installing the Mcleod was curious if Manitou mattoc is a sleeper like the Mcleod is?
> 
> Dougal: You seem to have a lot of Manitou knowledge, would you recommend a Mattoc or another brand to be paired with Mcleod?


The Mattoc pairs excellently with the McLeod. Got two bikes running here with that combo. Another has minute and mcleod and another black/minute. They all pair very well.


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## Mackmountain (May 2, 2016)

Your gut feeling is telling the truth, the Mattock will be better than you will hope and go very well with the McLeod. I have a 32mm Minute with ABS+ damper and it has better suspension feel/control than a pike on my other bike. Pike is just stiffer. Have test ridden a mattock and that fork is even better again. Plus manitou is super user friendly to maintain and adjust.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

seamarsh said:


> Thanks for reply.
> 
> As far as sleeper, I just meant I'm on the west coast Northern California and do not see anyone running manitou anything ever, nor are they ever mentioned. Maybe they don't have as much distribution here? or maybe because fox is here idk.
> 
> I'll check out Mattoc next time sale season comes around.


Hmm, I'm in Northern California and can show you four bikes with Mattocs and two with McLeods. Two are hardtails.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Mattoc and Mcleod are the best kept "secrets" in suspension IMO. People are quick to write them off due to their past. The current line of products is amazing!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Cary said:


> Hmm, I'm in Northern California and can show you four bikes with Mattocs and two with McLeods. Two are hardtails.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Think also comes down to what the person is considering NorCal. May not see it as much in the bay area/central valley as you would in Downieville/Tahoe areas. I actually saw my first Markhor in the wild the other day, guy was riding a new Norco (I think) but was someone that I have not seen on my local trails.

Thing that I see a lot of is people that go to a shop and purchase the bike with whatever it comes with. Many will replace said bike in 3-5yrs (if not sooner) so they rarely upgrade components. I am one of the few that would rather build up my own bike than walk into a shop and point at a bike and say "I'll take that one" regardless of how much time I have spent on said demo bike version. However, I am overly analytical and tend to feel I know myself and what I want better than any shop or brand. Hence why my next full sus will be a british steel boutique bike instead of just going with a larger brand that is sold locally in alu/carbon flavoring.


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## hurck (Apr 26, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> Just get the air can kit. The other kit is also for damper rebuild which most people won't do at home.
> 
> You won't realize it because it happens slowly, but the air can seals wear and cause negative air chamber pressure loss which makes tge shock less sensitive. A rebuild will reset the pressure and new seals will keep the air where it should be for longer. It will feel like a new shock


Thanks again. The result is more subtle than the new dust wipers on my mattoc, but the difference is there. Like you said, i didn't really notice my shock was performing less but after the service i can say it was time for a service. I will make sure i replace the seals yearly from now on!
Any tips on when to replace the oil in the damper? I know most manitou products keep performing without the need for lot's of oil changes, but everything needs a service once in a while , no? I do have the 3 in 1 tool, and i have some experience with full rebuilds of monarch shocks.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

hurck said:


> Thanks again. The result is more subtle than the new dust wipers on my mattoc, but the difference is there. Like you said, i didn't really notice my shock was performing less but after the service i can say it was time for a service. I will make sure i replace the seals yearly from now on!
> Any tips on when to replace the oil in the damper? I know most manitou products keep performing without the need for lot's of oil changes, but everything needs a service once in a while , no? I do have the 3 in 1 tool, and i have some experience with full rebuilds of monarch shocks.


Full rebuild videos are available on YouTube. I believe you can get them off manitous website ad well though I haven't looked recently. They are easy to rebuild then monarchs, but require higher ifp pressures. In the videos they claim 300psi, but I highly recommend getting as close to 400 as possible, especially if you run the IPA adjuster in anything other then full open.

If you just doing an oil change, ever couple years is sufficient unless you ride a lot.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

gregnash said:


> Think also comes down to what the person is considering NorCal. May not see it as much in the bay area/central valley as you would in Downieville/Tahoe areas. I actually saw my first Markhor in the wild the other day, guy was riding a new Norco (I think) but was someone that I have not seen on my local trails.
> 
> Thing that I see a lot of is people that go to a shop and purchase the bike with whatever it comes with. Many will replace said bike in 3-5yrs (if not sooner) so they rarely upgrade components. I am one of the few that would rather build up my own bike than walk into a shop and point at a bike and say "I'll take that one" regardless of how much time I have spent on said demo bike version. However, I am overly analytical and tend to feel I know myself and what I want better than any shop or brand. Hence why my next full sus will be a british steel boutique bike instead of just going with a larger brand that is sold locally in alu/carbon flavoring.


I'm in Marin. Lots of bikes and bike geeks here of course.

Never have seen a McLeod in the wild. Was in a local shop the other day trying to tell them that it was a great shock, might as well have been trying to tell them that the 74' pinto wagon was best car ever made.

Happy for Cary to have some manitou bros close for moral support.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

seamarsh said:


> I'm in Marin. Lots of bikes and bike geeks here of course.
> 
> Never have seen a McLeod in the wild. Was in a local shop the other day trying to tell them that it was a great shock, might as well have been trying to tell them that the 74' pinto wagon was best car ever made.
> 
> Happy for Cary to have some manitou bros close for moral support.


The manitou community is small in general, mainly because manitou doesn't have a large marketing budget. They don't subscribe to gimmicks either. RS and fox have a marketing name for everything.

Example: RS calls there shimmed rebound damper (dual flow) and slap the label on every high end product they make as if it's some great jump in tech. Meanwhile, Manitou calls it a "rebound damper" and puts a shimmed high speed rebound circuit in every product the have made for as long as I can remember. Even the 200$ manitou match had the tech that you had to spend 700+ to get else where.

This is why the people who try a manitou product tend to be converted to the brand, and it now has a cult following.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

seamarsh said:


> Was in a local shop the other day trying to tell them that it was a great shock, might as well have been trying to tell them that the 74' pinto wagon was best car ever made.


LOL, I can relate. If it's not Fox or RS then they won't even consider it. The only way to "upgrade" is if Fox or RS comes out with a new product.


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## rushy41 (Feb 21, 2007)

I am not a cult follower - but I can tell that the McLeod on my Banshee Phantom is miles better than the Monarch RT3 it replaced. For the price it's simply a no- brainer!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

seamarsh said:


> I'm in Marin. Lots of bikes and bike geeks here of course.
> 
> Never have seen a McLeod in the wild. Was in a local shop the other day trying to tell them that it was a great shock, might as well have been trying to tell them that the 74' pinto wagon was best car ever made.
> 
> Happy for Cary to have some manitou bros close for moral support.


Right?! Had the same impressions when I originally started going to my LBS. They quickly learned how much I research this garbage and put a lot of thought into such purchases. They quickly understood that my research wasn't all smoke and mirrors. Shortly there-after my buddy had the same experience when I first put the McLeod on my bike. Now he calls me when he is thinking about certain products, he is still a fan of FOX/RS but that is years of marketing bs in the industry (he was a sale rep for SCOTT for 7yrs, 10yrs for Rossignol before that) that I am slowly undoing.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

gregnash said:


> Right?! Had the same impressions when I originally started going to my LBS. They quickly learned how much I research this garbage and put a lot of thought into such purchases. They quickly understood that my research wasn't all smoke and mirrors. Shortly there-after my buddy had the same experience when I first put the McLeod on my bike. Now he calls me when he is thinking about certain products, he is still a fan of FOX/RS but that is years of marketing bs in the industry (he was a sale rep for SCOTT for 7yrs, 10yrs for Rossignol before that) that I am slowly undoing.


It literally took riding a McLeod to change my mind about Manitou. That and with the help of Nick for a custom shim stack and I was just as much blown away after tuning as I was before. Then I bought a Magnum/Mattoc and have never looked back. I won't ride anything else. At least not until they don't make a product that I need. And I don't see that being a problem.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Tuning question on my McLeod:

I do a lot of technical climbs and I've noticed that my rear shock has a tendency to buck me out of the saddle after hitting a rock at low speed. Like, I am coming up to a bunch of rocks on a climb, my rear wheel hits a rock and rolls over, and a millisecond or two later I get bounced out of the saddle a little bit.

Not much to change here except rebound and I haven't been having any luck with that. It feels great on the downs!

I have the McLeod on two of my bikes and one has the King Can, the other does not. The one with the King Can doesn't seem to have as much of an issue on technical climbs, so maybe i'm way off and this is a different issue.

185lbs on a Canfield Riot and Balance. Riot is non-King Can and likes to buck.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Porch said:


> Tuning question on my McLeod:
> 
> I do a lot of technical climbs and I've noticed that my rear shock has a tendency to buck me out of the saddle after hitting a rock at low speed. Like, I am coming up to a bunch of rocks on a climb, my rear wheel hits a rock and rolls over, and a millisecond or two later I get bounced out of the saddle a little bit.
> 
> ...


Send me a PM and I will give you some rebound stacks that should fix the issue. (Assuming you are willing to tune at home)


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> Send me a PM and I will give you some rebound stacks that should fix the issue. (Assuming you are willing to tune at home)


Sweet, thanks!


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Follow-up question as well: I've got King Cans for both of my bikes but i'm finding that they're not necessary (not enough progression, using too much travel). 

Am I better off selling the King Cans, or should I try adding spacers in to them? Is there any advantage to the King Cans other than leveling off the progression?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Porch said:


> Follow-up question as well: I've got King Cans for both of my bikes but i'm finding that they're not necessary (not enough progression, using too much travel).
> 
> Am I better off selling the King Cans, or should I try adding spacers in to them? Is there any advantage to the King Cans other than leveling off the progression?


Try it with the standard can and see how it reacts. I have a king can on mine as well currently but may not need it with the new bikes linkage key. I currently have an oring in the middle as well as one more in the upper chamber.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Porch said:


> Follow-up question as well: I've got King Cans for both of my bikes but i'm finding that they're not necessary (not enough progression, using too much travel).
> 
> Am I better off selling the King Cans, or should I try adding spacers in to them? Is there any advantage to the King Cans other than leveling off the progression?


Are you using the mid-volume position on the king-can? Not many bikes are progressive enough to need the full volume.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Yeah I was only using the mid volume on the king cans. My Riot definitely doesn't need the King can, and my Balance does okay with it, but better without. 

I just wondered if there was another reason to hang on to them. Earlier in the thread Dougal and a few others had mentioned modifying them, but i'm pretty happy with things as they are. I'll probably just throw them up on ebay...


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## gyenisp (Jun 14, 2017)

Hello again.

I have two questions about the mcleod:
a, Did can reset about a month ago, since i know my setup I didnt check sag for a while. Today I realised my shock is not extending fully, only to about 52mm (200x57). Can reset seems to solved the issue. Anyone knows why this happened? Except pos->neg chamber air leak i have no idea.

b, During the can reset i accidentally forget the red ring from neg chamber out (i guess its a topout bumper). The shock nonetheless felt pretty normal after assembly. Whats the purpose of the rubber ring? Did anyone tried the shock without it (gains/cons)?

Thanks.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> Send me a PM and I will give you some rebound stacks that should fix the issue. (Assuming you are willing to tune at home)


Thanks again for the help!

My shock feels awesome with the new rebound shims. We did a really long climb yesterday, just over 50 minutes of sustained technical climbing (2600ft, 7 miles) . The rear wheel was glued to the ground the whole time and there was no bucking at all. This was on my Canfield Riot, i'm going to make the change to my Canfield Balance in the next few days.

I thought the shock was amazing before, but now it's really amazing!


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Porch said:


> Thanks again for the help!
> 
> My shock feels awesome with the new rebound shims. We did a really long climb yesterday, just over 50 minutes of sustained technical climbing (2600ft, 7 miles) . The rear wheel was glued to the ground the whole time and there was no bucking at all. This was on my Canfield Riot, i'm going to make the change to my Canfield Balance in the next few days.
> 
> I thought the shock was amazing before, but now it's really amazing!


How difficult was it to re-shim? I have some experience shimming moto forks. Any special tools required?


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

seamarsh said:


> How difficult was it to re-shim? I have some experience shimming moto forks. Any special tools required?


I had to buy the Manitou 3-in-1 tool ($40), some Motorex 5w ($20), and the shims (about $12 + $12 shipping for two sets of shims).

I thought it was really easy. I've done full rebuilds on shocks before, and this shock was pretty similar to a Monarch i rebuilt a few years ago. The video for the IFP service is on youtube, and it's basically just this procedure plus undoing a small bolt on the end of the shim stack and replacing the two shims with mullen's recommended setup. I'm pretty sure I could do it again in 30 minutes.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Porch said:


> I had to buy the Manitou 3-in-1 tool ($40), some Motorex 5w ($20), and the shims (about $12 + $12 shipping for two sets of shims).
> 
> I thought it was really easy. I've done full rebuilds on shocks before, and this shock was pretty similar to a Monarch i rebuilt a few years ago. The video for the IFP service is on youtube, and it's basically just this procedure plus undoing a small bolt on the end of the shim stack and replacing the two shims with mullen's recommended setup. I'm pretty sure I could do it again in 30 minutes.


My shock and a case of beer are on the way...


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Vespasianus said:


> My shock and a case of beer are on the way...


You misspelled "whiskey"!


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## maclgallant (Feb 11, 2006)

Bluman8 said:


> Turns out I ordered the 12mm bushings. The RS bushing from the monarch ended up fitting nice and snug with no play.I'll replace with the roller bearing once it wears out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


which size did you go with ? 200x50 or 200x56?


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

maclgallant said:


> which size did you go with ? 200x50 or 200x56?


200x50


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## Mr Smith PDX (Oct 9, 2011)

I couldn't pass up a screaming deal to get a 200x56 McLeod off of Ebay ($72 with shipping). Tool marks on the outside of the shock lead me to believe that someone has removed the air can one time and possibly removed the IFP cover. this makes me think it was opened it up for service or for retuning. 

a) am I an idiot and this thing is probably thrashed,


ii) Does anyone want to sell me their used Manitou 3-in-1 tool? $40 is more than I want to pay for a tool I may only use once or twice.

3) Can I realistically rebuild this shock without all the (very specialized) tools in the rebuild videos on YouTube?

Thanks for any and all feedback.

PS - If you consigned your McLeod to an eBay store in SLC, let me know what you did to it before you sold it.

edit:because grammar


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Mr Smith PDX said:


> I couldn't pass up a screaming deal to get a 200x56 McLeod off of Ebay ($72 with shipping). Tool marks on the outside of the shock lead me to believe that someone has removed the air can one time and possibly removed the IFP cover. this makes me think it was opened it up for service or for retuning.
> 
> a) am I an idiot and this thing is probably thrashed,
> 
> ...


Pics? Does it function properly?


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## Mr Smith PDX (Oct 9, 2011)

I JUST got it yesterday and haven't put it on the Trance yet. Here is a pic from the ebay listing. It looks like someone used channel locks to remove the air can.









I can't tell if the marks on the IFP cover are from needle nose pliers or if a rock hit it or something. I am also curious to find out if it has the newer IFP (the red one?). s/n is MC003000


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Mr Smith PDX said:


> I JUST got it yesterday and haven't put it on the Trance yet. Here is a pic from the ebay listing. It looks like someone used channel locks to remove the air can.
> 
> View attachment 1195315
> 
> ...


The marks wouldn't scare me. The can was likely pulled to reset the negative air chamber. The marks on the ifp cover don't look like they are from pliers IMO. I would install it and see how it performs before starting to worry.

As for the IFP, that serial number makes it a fairly old shock. It's possible that it has the old IFP, but it also may have been updated before being sold, or any other point in it's life. I'd give it a 50/50.chance it's updated. Again, I wouldn't worry about it to much until it gives you a reason to. Even though the old IFPs had some issues, many people never experienced the problem.


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## Mr Smith PDX (Oct 9, 2011)

Thank you.
I will update as I get it on the bike. Need to take some laps on the Monarch RT that it is replacing before I install it, and since the rain started back up again, it might be a couple of weeks


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Feeling a knock on my McLeod, feels like a bad bushing, only have about 15-20 hrs on it from new so maybe just needs more break in?

Also could be stiction from main seal? Oil residue on shock shaft has stutter marks, if that makes sense. 

Can feel it no matter what position the ipa is in. 

Anyone else experience this? 

Does not effect performance, just an annoying feeling while pedaling. 

Cheers


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> Feeling a knock on my McLeod, feels like a bad bushing, only have about 15-20 hrs on it from new so maybe just needs more break in?
> 
> Also could be stiction from main seal? Oil residue on shock shaft has stutter marks, if that makes sense.
> 
> ...


It's most likely shim knock from the adjustment of the head on shaft (affects shim preload).

Take the can off, see the locknut which locks the shaft to the head. Loosen the locknut, turn the head approx 40 degrees clockwise (from above) and snug the locknut back up.

If that doesn't help. Call back.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> It's most likely shim knock from the adjustment of the head on shaft (affects shim preload).
> 
> Take the can off, see the locknut which locks the shaft to the head. Loosen the locknut, turn the head approx 40 degrees clockwise (from above) and snug the locknut back up.
> 
> If that doesn't help. Call back.


Ok, I'll give that a try thanks.


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## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

I'm curious to look at getting one of these for my Ibis Ripley. Have read that I can shorten the 190x50 to the ripley's 184x44 by adding some spacers ontop of the topout bumper. This looks like it will impact the negative chamber volume. Should I look to put some 'speed holes' or slots into the spacer to minimise the reduction of the negative volume possbily?/ does this give me a bit of room to test out impacts to the negative volume?? I'm also running with the fact that this is on top out, so the forces the spacer is going to see is only from the pressure of the shock rather than forces transmitted from the trail, therefore there's less importance on having the spacer structurally sound....

My current shock is the fox ctd which not many people seem to give praise. The newer ripleys have the dps with evolve can hence my curiosity around impacting the negative volume.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Dougal will probably respond soon but why not shoot Manitou an email on their support line for recommendations? They have always responded in a day or so to me and could offer to do the modification for you if you already have the shock in hand. 

Also, what I am hoping is that they may give you some sort of ETA on when they "aftermarket" will have availability of the new metric sizing standard on their shocks.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

meschenbruch said:


> I'm curious to look at getting one of these for my Ibis Ripley. Have read that I can shorten the 190x50 to the ripley's 184x44 by adding some spacers ontop of the topout bumper. This looks like it will impact the negative chamber volume. Should I look to put some 'speed holes' or slots into the spacer to minimise the reduction of the negative volume possbily?/ does this give me a bit of room to test out impacts to the negative volume?? I'm also running with the fact that this is on top out, so the forces the spacer is going to see is only from the pressure of the shock rather than forces transmitted from the trail, therefore there's less importance on having the spacer structurally sound....
> 
> My current shock is the fox ctd which not many people seem to give praise. The newer ripleys have the dps with evolve can hence my curiosity around impacting the negative volume.


Adding spacers still enlarges the negative chamber slightly. But the spacers are intended to not enlarge it too much as it would reduce negative pressure and function.

I've got the spacers here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html

But feel free to buy extras and try it yourself.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Took off can, by head you are speaking of the top of the shock that has ipa adjustments etc? It has a black lock nut, it’s aluminum and did not see and way to get that off without bunging up the nut? Any advice.. don’t want to jam fist it.


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## Manslug (Apr 29, 2018)

*Stock can Volume spacer*









I've had the Mcleod on a 2017 Transition smuggler for about a month now and i thought I'd pass on a tip from Manitou for anyone wanting to reduce volume in the standard air can. You can use the red top-out bumpers from the air can kit as volume spacers by cutting them open and sliding them over the damper shaft up into the top of the air can like shown. Overall effect is noticeable, and feels similar to adding a band/spacer to other brands air cans.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

seamarsh said:


> Took off can, by head you are speaking of the top of the shock that has ipa adjustments etc? It has a black lock nut, it's aluminum and did not see and way to get that off without bunging up the nut? Any advice.. don't want to Ham fist it.











Sorry here is a picture.. black locking bolt correct?


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

seamarsh said:


> View attachment 1196490
> 
> 
> Sorry here is a picture.. black locking bolt correct?


Never mind, found an old post you responded too. Seems the ipa lever adjustment fixed it thanks


----------



## riyadh (Feb 13, 2015)

Currently I have a fox evolution ctd on a commencal meta sx. I keep blowing thru the travel and have added the large spacer still the same, even upgraded the air can to the evol can which made it slightly better.
I have read lots of reviews about the mclead even peeps who have fitted it to a meta sx are liking it. 
Is it really such a big difference between the fox and the mclead?
How is the mid travel support?


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

riyadh said:


> Currently I have a fox evolution ctd on a commencal meta sx. I keep blowing thru the travel and have added the large spacer still the same, even upgraded the air can to the evol can which made it slightly better.
> I have read lots of reviews about the mclead even peeps who have fitted it to a meta sx are liking it.
> Is it really such a big difference between the fox and the mclead?
> How is the mid travel support?


I mean, how much difference is there between a Walmart bike and a Santa Cruz? They both have two wheels, and some people are perfectly happy with their Walmart bike. Are you happy with your Fox?

I think the McLeod is a much better shock but I'm not sure it will fix the problem you're describing with your Fox.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i came across this thread searching for a shock and fork for my new bike build. looks like mcleod is preferred by many who swapped over from different shocks. i am looking for some recommendations. here are few questions i have so far.

-i am not fan of fox, for the use of nitrogen when doing maintenance. mcleod rebuild process is very similar but in instruction, n2 charge is optionsl, i am just wandering why just air is ok in negative chamber while fox strongly recommends n2. i understand air is mostly n2 anyway and is good enough?

-i am getting Spot mayhem 29 frame. this frame is unique for having leaf spring replacing lower pivot. would mcleod be good fit for this frame? the living link linkage on Spots is known for very solid platform and most people run shocks open all the time.

-i am 190lbs geared, would the shock require any type of tuning/ shim stack modification for my weight or for the bikes suspension characteristics?

-would the shock be a good fit for type of terrain here in Colorado front range? trails are mostly long ups followed by long downs, a lot of rocks and chunk.

-i am also looking into mattocks, i would need 140mm travel and i understand that 120mm fork can be modified to 140mm by removing some spacers. also there is pro and comp versions of the fork, is it worth to pony up 400$ fro pro version. is the extra adjustability worth 400 extra? are the pro and comp versions otherwise the same? i have always just have compression and rebound adjustments on the fork and i think that is all i need so comp seems like would work ok for me. also i see it has 34mm stanchions, is this stiff enough for techy downs? i will be coming from 160mm fox 36.

-looks like both fork and shock are easily home serviceable so thats a big plus for me.
i am currently on marz roco tst r shock and its my all time favorite shock.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

brankulo said:


> i came across this thread searching for a shock and fork for my new bike build. looks like mcleod is preferred by many who swapped over from different shocks. i am looking for some recommendations. here are few questions i have so far.
> 
> -i am not fan of fox, for the use of nitrogen when doing maintenance. mcleod rebuild process is very similar but in instruction, n2 charge is optionsl, i am just wandering why just air is ok in negative chamber while fox strongly recommends n2. i understand air is mostly n2 anyway and is good enough?
> 
> .


You don't have to use nitrogen in either brand, it's just dry and cheap to buy in compressed form. The x2 shock uses air normally but you can buy fairly inexpensive tools to charge any fox shock with a shock pump. So yeah air is fine to use, you won't notice any difference


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

brankulo said:


> i came across this thread searching for a shock and fork for my new bike build. looks like mcleod is preferred by many who swapped over from different shocks. i am looking for some recommendations. here are few questions i have so far.
> 
> -i am not fan of fox, for the use of nitrogen when doing maintenance. mcleod rebuild process is very similar but in instruction, n2 charge is optionsl, i am just wandering why just air is ok in negative chamber while fox strongly recommends n2. i understand air is mostly n2 anyway and is good enough?
> 
> ...


As Johnny said Nitrogen is optional. It makes sense in factory assembly as people slaving away on pumps to get 300-500psi is not a good use of time.

At 190lb/in unless your frame has a weird leverage curve you'll be good to go.

Mattoc the Pro is well worth it. The smaller diameter rebound piston works better in fast compression (it's about shaft/bore ratios) and the adjustable LSC/HSC/HBO is as good as it gets.
Pro also gets internally tapered stanchions of stronger alloy and more machining inside the crown to reduce weight.

The Mattocs are plenty stiff enough.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

thanks dougal.
the leverage ratio image i found online. could you take a peak if it looks like something that would not rule out the use of mcleod? i totally dont understand what am i looking at.

also from what you saying about mattoc pro stanchions, if i get mattoc comp there is no option to upgrade to pro version later, right?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

brankulo said:


> thanks dougal.
> the leverage ratio image i found online. could you take a peak if it looks like something that would not rule out the use of mcleod? i totally dont understand what am i looking at.
> 
> also from what you saying about mattoc pro stanchions, if i get mattoc comp there is no option to upgrade to pro version later, right?


Should work fine on that bike.

Yes that's correct with the Mattoc. To upgrade a Comp to a Pro would require changing almost everything except the lower legs. 
Experts can be upgraded to Pro spec with just a damper change.


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## 30x26 (Feb 7, 2004)

Dougal said:


> It's most likely shim knock from the adjustment of the head on shaft (affects shim preload).
> Take the can off, see the locknut which locks the shaft to the head. Loosen the locknut, turn the head approx 40 degrees clockwise (from above) and snug the locknut back up.


is the position of the head a possibility of tuning the preload?
i have an issue similar to seamarch's one, a kind of very little play somewhere into the shock. i tried the 40° degree rotation but it does not solve the small issue, so i went back to stock position of the head +/- 5° ( i hope  ) 
playing with the shock i noticed that it's not possible to go past 50-60° clockwise from stock , beyond that i feel some resistance against rotation and i cannot move the lever to most preloaded position. is that the maximum possible preload? 
if i want to remove some preload how much can i turn the head counterclockwise from the stock position without damaging anything?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

30x26 said:


> is the position of the head a possibility of tuning the preload?
> i have an issue similar to seamarch's one, a kind of very little play somewhere into the shock. i tried the 40° degree rotation but it does not solve the small issue, so i went back to stock position of the head +/- 5° ( i hope  )
> playing with the shock i noticed that it's not possible to go past 50-60° clockwise from stock , beyond that i feel some resistance against rotation and i cannot move the lever to most preloaded position. is that the maximum possible preload?
> if i want to remove some preload how much can i turn the head counterclockwise from the stock position without damaging anything?


Yes it is a tuning option. But one you have to be very careful with to not over-load the shims.

The other adjuster which sets the start point of the IPA lever is a horizontal grub screw by the air-valve. Check that first.

Reducing preload further will let the shims knock.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Manslug said:


> View attachment 1196488
> 
> 
> I've had the Mcleod on a 2017 Transition smuggler for about a month now and i thought I'd pass on a tip from Manitou for anyone wanting to reduce volume in the standard air can. You can use the red top-out bumpers from the air can kit as volume spacers by cutting them open and sliding them over the damper shaft up into the top of the air can like shown. Overall effect is noticeable, and feels similar to adding a band/spacer to other brands air cans.


Anyone have a link for these? Or are there any other volume spacer I can use in standard air can?


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## Manslug (Apr 29, 2018)

seamarsh said:


> Anyone have a link for these? Or are there any other volume spacer I can use in standard air can?


Bit of an update: Though this was suggested by Manitou, the spacer doesnt stay put very well. I needed another spacer and rather than buy another kit I just got some EVA foam from the craft store and cut it so the damper shaft jam nut holds it in place.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Just got my hands on a McLeod. It's on the bike and ready to ride. Plan to hit some gravel road today and then some single track tomorrow. Excited to see how it performs under my fat arse. If it works out it'll be replacing the RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 DebonAir that came stock on my bike.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

If you guys want to reduce volume, just use grease.

It's readily available in any quantity you want to install. Doesn't knock or rattle. Won't get stuck somewhere it shouldn't be.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Sounds like you guys are getting along just fine without the manitou vice block tool? I have the 4-1 thing, if I can skip the blocks id rather... unless dougal wants to ship me one for a good price


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

One Pivot said:


> Sounds like you guys are getting along just fine without the manitou vice block tool? I have the 4-1 thing, if I can skip the blocks id rather... unless dougal wants to ship me one for a good price


Take a block of hard wood or plastic and drill through it with the same size as the shaft. Then cut the block in half, right through the hole you drilled. Clamp that in your vice.


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## Karlewski (Dec 3, 2016)

Could anyone comment on how this shock compares to the DPX2. Sure is a hell of a lot better price!


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Will this fit a Bronson v1? 2015 small frame. I'm about 140 lb not geared up. Wondering what I need to get.


Thinking I need a 200x56mm? Also, I ride frequently but don't race and know nothing about progressive curves, spike, mid bounce etc. I just get on and ride.

Would I need to do anything to tune it? Or just buy it and install it and ride, and it'll be plenty good enough? I'm coming from a Fox Float CTD evolution.


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## richard451 (Mar 2, 2017)

I'm following nubsters lead and getting a mcleod for my DBack R3 and I purchased the mcleod from ebay yesterday (using the 20% coupon) but I'm having a hard time finding a 200x56 king can to order. My lbs shop can order one, but they aren't sure when they can get it in. Any other suggestions?

I'm a heavier rider (290lbs) and from what I am reading the king can would be best for me.

Thanks


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## Energetik (Feb 7, 2008)

I found this one:

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy...MIg7fJ5ovC2wIVkozICh0vvQGnEAkYASABEgJ8TvD_BwE

The link is active but invisible on my phone. Not sure why. Click or tap above I guess. Maybe it's fine for some of you.

Hope that helps. It's a German site but I know some US peeps who have ordered from their and they were happy.

Also for those interested I have a 200x50 McLeod on eBay right now. Shameless I know.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> If you guys want to reduce volume, just use grease.
> 
> It's readily available in any quantity you want to install. Doesn't knock or rattle. Won't get stuck somewhere it shouldn't be.


You mean coat the inside of the can with a layer of grease? Seems like you would need a tablespoon worth to make a difference.. a.m. I missing something?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

richard451 said:


> I'm following nubsters lead and getting a mcleod for my DBack R3 and I purchased the mcleod from ebay yesterday (using the 20% coupon) but I'm having a hard time finding a 200x56 king can to order. My lbs shop can order one, but they aren't sure when they can get it in. Any other suggestions?
> 
> I'm a heavier rider (290lbs) and from what I am reading the king can would be best for me.
> 
> Thanks


Are you looking for the dedicated McLeod with the King Can already installed in that size? The King Can was an aftermarket install from my knowledge and I thought (though could definitely be wrong) that the can size between all shock sizes was the exact same, so one king can would fit all. Again, I could be wrong. Manitou has always been super responsive to me in emails, so shoot them an email (giving them a day or two to respond) and see what they say.


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## richard451 (Mar 2, 2017)

gregnash said:


> Are you looking for the dedicated McLeod with the King Can already installed in that size? The King Can was an aftermarket install from my knowledge and I thought (though could definitely be wrong) that the can size between all shock sizes was the exact same, so one king can would fit all. Again, I could be wrong. Manitou has always been super responsive to me in emails, so shoot them an email (giving them a day or two to respond) and see what they say.


I already bought a McLeod and a wrench off ebay, and am looking for a king can to put on. Thanks for the email suggestion. I'll try it now and let you know.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gregnash said:


> Are you looking for the dedicated McLeod with the King Can already installed in that size? The King Can was an aftermarket install from my knowledge and I thought (though could definitely be wrong) that the can size between all shock sizes was the exact same, so one king can would fit all. Again, I could be wrong. Manitou has always been super responsive to me in emails, so shoot them an email (giving them a day or two to respond) and see what they say.


There are only two interchangable King-Can's. The 190x50 and 200x50 are the same. The rest are all size specific.

Yes they're aftermarket.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Dougal said:


> There are only two interchangable King-Can's. The 190x50 and 200x50 are the same. The rest are all size specific.
> 
> Yes they're aftermarket.


Ok good to know!


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## davidlouis (May 4, 2013)

Trying to revive an old XC frame and just got a Mcleod in from a German online retailer.
Can someone please confirm the year of this model?

Decals match some of the pics in this thread from as early as 2015/16 but not that on the Hayes site (black M with red outline) which I would imagine is current.

What is confusing me more is that there is a sticker on the box with a 2006 date of manufacture listed!??

Surely this thing can’t be 12 years old already before first use! Can anyone verify it’s age from the serial number?

Would appreciate any insight offered...


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Holy cow. My money is on simple misprint with 2016 actual build date. My runner up wager is that its a chinese knockoff and you got ripped off. But thats a distant second place guess.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

davidlouis said:


> Trying to revive an old XC frame and just got a Mcleod in from a German online retailer.
> Can someone please confirm the year of this model?
> 
> Decals match some of the pics in this thread from as early as 2015/16 but not that on the Hayes site (black M with red outline) which I would imagine is current.
> ...


Bike discount?


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## davidlouis (May 4, 2013)

Indeed yes!

Why? Do you have any experience/info to share?


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

davidlouis said:


> Indeed yes!
> 
> Why? Do you have any experience/info to share?


No just wanted to know since i will buy it soon!


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## MiWolverine (Jun 15, 2009)

This question is for the heavier riders (clydes) using this shock. What type of pressure are you running? I am having a little difficulty getting the pressure dialed in. Having some sort of baseline and going from there would be great. I am 240# geared up.


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## davidlouis (May 4, 2013)

They have a pretty good reputation online. No mention of knock off stuff anywhere as far as I can see. I have emailed manitou for some info. Let’s see what they say.... will share with this thread if it’s worth anything...


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

MiWolverine said:


> This question is for the heavier riders (clydes) using this shock. What type of pressure are you running? I am having a little difficulty getting the pressure dialed in. Having some sort of baseline and going from there would be great. I am 240# geared up.


It really depends on what size shock and what your leverage ratio is. But for argument's sake, I'm 235+ lbs ride weight, running a 165x38 mcleod on a 100mm frame at 220 psi. The telltale will just about come off on 2+ ft drops, but I really dont feel it bottom out ever. I'm also running a bit of grease to reduce volume and increase progressiveness.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

MiWolverine said:


> This question is for the heavier riders (clydes) using this shock. What type of pressure are you running? I am having a little difficulty getting the pressure dialed in. Having some sort of baseline and going from there would be great. I am 240# geared up.


I ran between 215 and 235 depending on frame. 255 pound rider at that time

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


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## MiWolverine (Jun 15, 2009)

GuitsBoy said:


> It really depends on what size shock and what your leverage ratio is. But for argument's sake, I'm 235+ lbs ride weight, running a 165x38 mcleod on a 100mm frame at 220 psi. The telltale will just about come off on 2+ ft drops, but I really dont feel it bottom out ever. I'm also running a bit of grease to reduce volume and increase progressiveness.





R_Pierce said:


> I ran between 215 and 235 depending on frame. 255 pound rider at that time
> 
> Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


The shock is 200x56 with a LR of 2.32. I have the shock aired up to 135 and I thought that felt slightly on the stiff side to me. This is with the IPA set to active descend and rebound approx. 1/3 open. Granted, I don't do jumps or drops, but the trails I ride are quite rooty.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

MiWolverine said:


> The shock is 200x56 with a LR of 2.32. I have the shock aired up to 135 and I thought that felt slightly on the stiff side to me. This is with the IPA set to active descend and rebound approx. 1/3 open. Granted, I don't do jumps or drops, but the trails I ride are quite rooty.


What's the sag? Start at 25-30%. Go from there. And leave the shock in the full open position

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


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## MiWolverine (Jun 15, 2009)

R_Pierce said:


> What's the sag? Start at 25-30%. Go from there. And leave the shock in the full open position
> 
> Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


Sag is just over 30% seated with full weight on it (not in attack position). This is after cycling the suspension several times and riding it around the house.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

MiWolverine said:


> Sag is just over 30% seated with full weight on it (not in attack position). This is after cycling the suspension several times and riding it around the house.


I'm very surprised to hear that you thought it was stiff.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


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## MiWolverine (Jun 15, 2009)

Don't get me wrong, it's a great shock. At the pressure I have it at now doesn't feel quite right. I guess I am still hunting for the ideal pressure. I started at 90psi and worked my way up. At 90, it was too sluggish and, obviously, the bottom bracket was way too low. Now it feels closer to where I need it. Maybe I will leave it at this pressure and ride it some more and tinker with the adjustments.

What surprised me is reading the pressures you and Guitsboy are/were running. Maybe for S&Gs I will air it up to around 200 and see how that feels.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Keep in mind, 220 psi in a shock with 38mm stroke may be somewhere closer to 150 psi in a shock with 56mm stroke. 200 psi sounds excessive on your shock, but I guess you were mostly joking about that. If it was too soft at 90 and too stiff at 135, explore the middle, and if you find youre blowing through the travel like I was, you can add some grease to the air chamber to give the spring a bit more progressiveness.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> Keep in mind, 220 psi in a shock with 38mm stroke may be somewhere closer to 150 psi in a shock with 56mm stroke. 200 psi sounds excessive on your shock, but I guess you were mostly joking about that. If it was too soft at 90 and too stiff at 135, explore the middle, and if you find youre blowing through the travel like I was, you can add some grease to the air chamber to give the spring a bit more progressiveness.


He already a touch over 30% sag. I wouldn't want to go much more due to BB height issues.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Good point. I skipped that post somehow.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

MiWolverine said:


> Don't get me wrong, it's a great shock. At the pressure I have it at now doesn't feel quite right. I guess I am still hunting for the ideal pressure. I started at 90psi and worked my way up. At 90, it was too sluggish and, obviously, the bottom bracket was way too low. Now it feels closer to where I need it. Maybe I will leave it at this pressure and ride it some more and tinker with the adjustments.
> 
> What surprised me is reading the pressures you and Guitsboy are/were running. Maybe for S&Gs I will air it up to around 200 and see how that feels.


Since you're running pretty low pressure and still feeling the shock stiff/harsh, could your rebound be set a bit too slow and causing it to pack down?


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## MiWolverine (Jun 15, 2009)

fsrxc said:


> Since you're running pretty low pressure and still feeling the shock stiff/harsh, could your rebound be set a bit too slow and causing it to pack down?


This is what I thought at first. I then dialed the rebound up and now it's approx. 1/3 from open. I'm going to mess with the adjustments and pressure a little more.

Edit: I aired the shock up to 150 and I barely got 10% sag. I am guessing I am in the ballpark at ~130.


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## davidlouis (May 4, 2013)

So... with all the talk in this thread about having manually reset the negative airspring on the Mcleod, what are you guys using to loosen the air can if not the high priced $80 McLeod wrench without risk of damage to the hex flat surfaces on the aircan?
My Fox rear shock was always only hand tight... is it the same with the Mcleod?
TIA for any input. 


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

davidlouis said:


> So... with all the talk in this thread about having manually reset the negative airspeing on the Mcleod, what are you guys using to loosen the air can if not the high priced $80 McLeod wrench without risk of damage to the hex flat surfaces on the aircan?
> My Fox rear shock was always only hand tight... is it the same with the Mcleod?
> TIA for any input. 👍


Strap wrench.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> Strap wrench.


And then after your first removal you can just install it hand tight (tight though, not loose)

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> Strap wrench.


Exactly... $8 strap wrench from HD did the job for me then installed hand tight afterwards.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I use a nice adjustable wrench with flat/parallel/undamaged jaws. Tighten it on the flats and haven't marked a can yet.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Just ordered one for my 2015 Bronson C S to replace what I didn't know was a crappy Fox Float CTD. Confirmed 2018 model.

I figure, hey this bike was $4700 new. I guess all bikes chatter this much and hard down level but rocky terrain? My bike has never been "plush" but I didn't think about it. My buddy rode my bike (which was better than his) and then rode a 2017 Bronson with the Monarch and said, damn his bike just sucks up the terrain, it's so confident.

That got me thinking, what's wrong with my bike then? Can't wait to see if there is a difference. I'm a suspension neophyte. Don't know anything about curves, progression, sag etc. The bike shop set it up and I rode it.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

jdang307 said:


> Just ordered one for my 2015 Bronson C S to replace what I didn't know was a crappy Fox Float CTD. Confirmed 2018 model.


I am thinking about trying one, too. Where did you order from?


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Dougal said:


> I use a nice adjustable wrench with flat/parallel/undamaged jaws. Tighten it on the flats and haven't marked a can yet.


You could also wrap a thin rag around it first.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Any thoughts on using the mcleod on a high ratio bike (Ibis hd4. 3.1 - 2.6 ratio).

Wondering if the nonadjustable negative spring will get too weak at higher pressures, causing stiff initial travel. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

croakies said:


> Any thoughts on using the mcleod on a high ratio bike (Ibis hd4. 3.1 - 2.6 ratio).
> 
> Wondering if the nonadjustable negative spring will get too weak at higher pressures, causing stiff initial travel.
> 
> ...


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> croakies said:
> 
> 
> > Any thoughts on using the mcleod on a high ratio bike (Ibis hd4. 3.1 - 2.6 ratio).
> ...


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Does anyone have experience with the McLeod on a high leverage linear ratio bike (Cube Stereo 160, roughly 2.8 - 2.8 ratio)? I have a Fox DPS Evol Performance installed now, but it has no small bump compliance and can't cope with square edge hits. Lower pressure results in bottom-outs. Have the second largest spacer (0.8) installed to prevent it from rushing through the travel. 
Would the McLeod fare better?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mac1987 said:


> Does anyone have experience with the McLeod on a high leverage linear ratio bike (Cube Stereo 160, roughly 2.8 - 2.8 ratio)? I have a Fox DPS Evol Performance installed now, but it has no small bump compliance and can't cope with square edge hits. Lower pressure results in bottom-outs. Have the second largest spacer (0.8) installed to prevent it from rushing through the travel.
> Would the McLeod fare better?


You're running a big vol spacer because the compression damping is lacking. It's the big vol spacer which is making it kick on square edges.

A McLeod will do better for both those reasons. Better compression damping will let you run bigger volume to work the deep travel better.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Even with the second smallest (0.4) spacer, square edge hits were handled badly. As if the damper couldn't handle the speed. The Fox 34 GRIP is the same. 
But thanks for the response and good to know that the McLeod works fine with my frame. Too bad you're literally on the other side of the world (I live in the Netherlands), otherwise I would have definitely considered ordering the shock from you.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Velodonata said:


> I am thinking about trying one, too. Where did you order from?


I ordered from https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=125949;menu=1000,2,119

If the 200x56 is the size you want, apparently I just ordered the last one (they said there were two before I ordered ,so someone else did I guess).

But that means the new stock should also be 2018 when they get them back in. So yeah, if you want a different size shoot them an email. It took a few days to respond (maybe had to wait for someone to write it in English)


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> Vespasianus said:
> 
> 
> > croakies said:
> ...


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## gabgi (Dec 29, 2008)

Mac1987 said:


> Does anyone have experience with the McLeod on a high leverage linear ratio bike (Cube Stereo 160, roughly 2.8 - 2.8 ratio)? I have a Fox DPS Evol Performance installed now, but it has no small bump compliance and can't cope with square edge hits. Lower pressure results in bottom-outs. Have the second largest spacer (0.8) installed to prevent it from rushing through the travel.
> Would the McLeod fare better?


In fact I have Cube Stereo 140 mm with lower leverage ratio ,but I have had similar feeling with Fox like You. After switching from Fox to McLeod it's fare fare better with small bumps and overall feeling. It's worth and I think You will be more then happy with McLeod.


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## gabgi (Dec 29, 2008)

You can order it from germany in good price
https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=125949;menu=1000,2,119;mid[82]=1
If You will buy it do not forget about bushing . 
Bushing from Fox will not fit probably.


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## MiWolverine (Jun 15, 2009)

gabgi said:


> You can order it from germany in good price
> https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=125949;menu=1000,2,119;mid[82]=1
> If You will buy it do not forget about bushing .
> Bushing from Fox will not fit probably.


I installed the Fox polymer DU bushings on mine and they work well.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Really good to know! Is the McLeod more progressive or does it give more mid travel support?


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

@gabgi: 
Really good to know! Is the McLeod more progressive or does it give more mid travel support?

Also, thanks for the tip! According to MiWolverine the Fox bushings should work. Also, I've read that Manitou had switched to normal size mounting hardware. Are special tools needed to swap the bushings or can they just be pulled off the Fox shock and pushed onto the McLeod?

Off-topic: how can one delete a message when using the mobile site? I merged two consecutive messages and want to delete the first, now redundant, message but can't find out how ...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mac1987 said:


> Does anyone have experience with the McLeod on a high leverage linear ratio bike (Cube Stereo 160, roughly 2.8 - 2.8 ratio)? I have a Fox DPS Evol Performance installed now, but it has no small bump compliance and can't cope with square edge hits. Lower pressure results in bottom-outs. Have the second largest spacer (0.8) installed to prevent it from rushing through the travel.
> Would the McLeod fare better?


Forgot to mention, Manitou's Cheif Engineer rides a Cube Stereo.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Forgot to mention, Manitou's Cheif Engineer rides a Cube Stereo.


Wow! It's cool reading we're riding the same bike, although I would not have expected that. While I love my Stereo for it's all-round capability (it does really climb as well as it descents), they seem to have fallen out of fashion lately because of the conservative geometry and not being build for the ultimate gnar.
On the other hand, I got a great deal for the higher end carbon C:62 Race model with predominantly Fox Performance 160mm suspension, DT Swiss hubs, spokes and rims and Shimano XT level components, weighing just 13 kg. Try the same with Specialized or Trek and you can easily spend twice what I spent... And still swap the suspension for Manitou to upgrade performance


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mac1987 said:


> Wow! It's cool reading we're riding the same bike, although I would not have expected that. While I love my Stereo for it's all-round capability (it does really climb as well as it descents), they seem to have fallen out of fashion lately because of the conservative geometry and not being build for the ultimate gnar.
> On the other hand, I got a great deal for the higher end carbon C:62 Race model with predominantly Fox Performance 160mm suspension and Shimano XT level components, weighing just 13 kg. Try the same with Specialized or Trek and you can easily spend twice what I spent...


Yeah I looked hard at the Cube Stereo 160 but it was the steeper and shorter geometry that made it a non-starter for me. Even though the rest looked great.

I got a Bergamont which is built for the ultimate gnar.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Yeah I looked hard at the Cube Stereo 160 but it was the steeper and shorter geometry that made it a non-starter for me. Even though the rest looked great.
> 
> I got a Bergamont which is built for the ultimate gnar.


Yeah I know what you mean. I had my doubts for the same reason, but felt great on the bike with a 60mm stem. Maybe I will buy a new frame and swap all the components over once frame technology has improved significantly and if the same standards still apply (not likely...). Until then, I'm really happy with the bike. If I had lived closer to a bike park, I would have bought a Canyon Strive though. Bergamont also makes really nice bikes by the way. It is hard to find a shop selling the nice models in the Netherlands though.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

I have a Salsa Deadwood that is running a Monarch; I don't have too many rides on it, but so far I'm not very impressed. I'm beginning to research other options and thinking about replacing as I enjoy tinkering and this thread certainly has appealed to me. The stock shock is a 184x44 though. The closest Mcleod is a 190x50. Would this be too "over shocked" by changing the eye-to-eye/stroke by that much? I imagine that I could keep the geometry the same if I run dual offset bushings, but seeking a little more input on the potential shock stroke change first. Thanks!


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Jason Rides Bikes said:


> The stock shock is a 184x44 though. The closest Mcleod is a 190x50.


Go back through this thread, you'll find links to travel reducing spacers for your scenario.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

You can get travel spacers from Dougal https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html and convert 190x50 to 184x44.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

I've finally decided to order a mcleod 200x56 for a 2012 Marin Mount Vision. I'm just trying to figure out whether I need to order a set of reducers and bushing or reuse the existing hardware from the Fox rp23?

If I do need to order new hardware I'm a bit confused as to what I should get. I assume the bushings are included and I would need to order only the reducers? However, my bike specs list 8x22 but I've only seen 21.8 or 22.2. Am I missing something?


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## Trajan (Feb 9, 2004)

Desertride said:


> I've finally decided to order a mcleod 200x56 for a 2012 Marin Mount Vision. I'm just trying to figure out whether I need to order a set of reducers and bushing or reuse the existing hardware from the Fox rp23?
> 
> If I do need to order new hardware I'm a bit confused as to what I should get. I assume the bushings are included and I would need to order only the reducers? However, my bike specs list 8x22 but I've only seen 21.8 or 22.2. Am I missing something?


If you are using the fox plastic reducers you should be able to reuse them. They are very easy to get out and put in.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

MiWolverine said:


> I installed the Fox polymer DU bushings on mine and they work well.





Mac1987 said:


> @gabgi:
> Really good to know! Is the McLeod more progressive or does it give more mid travel support?
> 
> Also, thanks for the tip! According to MiWolverine the Fox bushings should work. Also, I've read that Manitou had switched to normal size mounting hardware. Are special tools needed to swap the bushings or can they just be pulled off the Fox shock and pushed onto the McLeod?
> ...


Ok so my Fox Float CTD is from 2015, and hasn't been serviced (rode sporadically first year and a half, and somewhat regularly last 1.5 years). Is the bushing a non-moving part so it doesn't need to be replaced? When my mcleod comes in, I need to:

1 - Have LBS remove mcleod bushing
2 - remove bushing from fox and put in manitou

That's it? Or should I get a new bushing somewhere? And why can't we install it with the bushing the mcleod ships with? Sorry for the noobie questions. Trying to learn more about this stuff.


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

Hi, all. I'm riding a 2013 Felt Edict. I mostly ride XC style trails with a couple of visits to the mtb park over summer.

Edict Nine 60 - Felt Bicycles

I am looking to replace the Monarch R shock that came with it, and stumbled on this thread. I am running a 120mm Manitou Tower Pro fork and wanted to see if the Mcleod would be a good fit for the rear of my bike? So far I like what I'm reading. My bike uses 165x38. I also wanted to see where the best place to buy it online is? Thank you.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Carloswithac said:


> Hi, all. I'm riding a 2013 Felt Edict. I mostly ride XC style trails with a couple of visits to the mtb park over summer.
> 
> Edict Nine 60 - Felt Bicycles
> 
> I am looking to replace the Monarch R shock that came with it, and stumbled on this thread. I am running a 120mm Manitou Tower Pro fork and wanted to see if the Mcleod would be a good fit for the rear of my bike? So far I like what I'm reading. My bike uses 165x38. I also wanted to see where the best place to buy it online is? Thank you.


yes, very. craig at tree fort bikes is very helpful. may have to special order though.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

jdang307 said:


> Ok so my Fox Float CTD is from 2015, and hasn't been serviced (rode sporadically first year and a half, and somewhat regularly last 1.5 years). Is the bushing a non-moving part so it doesn't need to be replaced? When my mcleod comes in, I need to:
> 
> 1 - Have LBS remove mcleod bushing
> 2 - remove bushing from fox and put in manitou
> ...


fox bushings may fit.

or order RWC needle bearing kits. break out the calipers and measure outside width of current bushings. make sure inner diamter matches teh manitou and all that.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

jdang307 said:


> Ok so my Fox Float CTD is from 2015, and hasn't been serviced (rode sporadically first year and a half, and somewhat regularly last 1.5 years). Is the bushing a non-moving part so it doesn't need to be replaced? When my mcleod comes in, I need to:
> 
> 1 - Have LBS remove mcleod bushing
> 2 - remove bushing from fox and put in manitou
> ...


You can. The stock manitou DU bushings will work just fine. All you need is the correct adapter/insert for your linkage width/hardware OD.

So if you already have a shock on the bike, just remove the adapter/bushing and move it to the Mcleod. You dont need to remove the DU bushings from either. Just the adapter/bushing that your hardware goes through.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

jdang307 said:


> I ordered from https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=125949;menu=1000,2,119
> ...It took a few days to respond (maybe had to wait for someone to write it in English)


Thanks. Yeah, I had trouble getting a timely response from one of the German based vendors, too. I ended up ordering a 190x50 from Wiggle, hopefully it is a fresh 2018. I found a code and they had the right size in stock, so it came out to under $200 shipped.


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

R_Pierce said:


> You can. The stock manitou DU bushings will work just fine. All you need is the correct adapter/insert for your linkage width/hardware OD.
> 
> So if you already have a shock on the bike, just remove the adapter/bushing and move it to the Mcleod. You dont need to remove the DU bushings from either. Just the adapter/bushing that your hardware goes through.


I'm running a Monarch shock. Any idea if the bushings would fit the Mcleod? I just ordered the shock, but not sure on the hardware I need to mount it. Linkage width is 20mm where the shock mounts to.

Thanks, and sorry it's my first time changing a shock.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Carloswithac said:


> I'm running a Monarch shock. Any idea if the bushings would fit the Mcleod? I just ordered the shock, but not sure on the hardware I need to mount it. Linkage width is 20mm where the shock mounts to.
> 
> Thanks, and sorry it's my first time changing a shock.


should be good to go. not 100% tho. i'd go RWC needle bearing anyway, but costs a few more bucks.


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## Manslug (Apr 29, 2018)

jdang307 said:


> 1 - Have LBS remove mcleod bushing
> 2 - remove bushing from fox and put in manitou


On my 2017 mcleod, fox top hat style bushings were a no go. The eyelets are a tiny bit larger than other brands as mentioned earlier in this thread and dont compress the bushings enough for them to be tight on the mounting hardware. I ended up running the stock DU bushings instead.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

Manslug said:


> On my 2017 mcleod, fox top hat style bushings were a no go. The eyelets are a tiny bit larger than other brands as mentioned earlier in this thread and dont compress the bushings enough for them to be tight on the mounting hardware. I ended up running the stock DU bushings instead.


I'm sorry to be a pain about terminology but this is terribly confusing and I'm trying to figure out exactly what I need to buy with the shock. There are three things connecting the shock to the frame mount. The du bushing, which is a self-lubricating sleeve. It is usually already installed in the eyelets. Then there are the spacers/reducers/caps/whatever you call them which sit inside the du bushing and come with different specifications of inner diameter and width. This is what I assume you mean by "fox top hat style bushings". Then there is the bolt itself which runs through the frame mounts.

So if you're saying that the fox reducers are a tad too small in outer diameter to seat firmly inside the du bushing, then I will order the manitou ones.


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## Manslug (Apr 29, 2018)

Fox supplies IGUS bushings which are cream colored bits of slippery plastic shaped like top hats. In this style of bushing, two "hats" are pressed into each side of the eyelet and the hardware for your frame, typically a black anodized aluminum spindle, passes through them. The spindle is clamped into your bike frame with a bolt that passes through it. To run this setup, you would press out the DU bushing supplied with the shock and press the top hats in, using the same mounting hardware for either. However, I found that with the fox IGUS bushings in place, there was play between the bushings and the black anodized spindle. I measured both a fox and rockshox spindle and the outer diameter was identical. So in this scenario, I'm guessing the eyelet is larger than rockshox/fox and doesnt compress the bushing enough so that it fits tight on the mounting hardware. Its also possible that rockshox/fox supply spindles that have a smaller outer diameter than the mounting hardware that manitou sells. In either case, I found that running my existing hardware with the stock manitou bushings was fine.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Desertride said:


> I'm sorry to be a pain about terminology but this is terribly confusing and I'm trying to figure out exactly what I need to buy with the shock. There are three things connecting the shock to the frame mount. The du bushing, which is a self-lubricating sleeve. It is usually already installed in the eyelets. Then there are the spacers/reducers/caps/whatever you call them which sit inside the du bushing and come with different specifications of inner diameter and width. This is what I assume you mean by "fox top hat style bushings". Then there is the bolt itself which runs through the frame mounts.
> 
> So if you're saying that the fox reducers are a tad too small in outer diameter to seat firmly inside the du bushing, then I will order the manitou ones.


Manitou since 2011 have used the same *nominal* size shock eyelets as Fox and Manitou. These are 19/32" ID. Which is 15.08mm metric. A DU bushing should bring that down to 1/2" (12.70mm) ID.

However. The tolerancing of that sizing (both hole and bushing) is all over the place. Cane Creek eyelets are the tightest, Fox are the loosest, Rockshox are mid to loosest, Manitou are normally in the middle.
Different brand/type DU bushings are also slightly thicker or thinner wall than others.

This nightmare is why I have a decent industry making custom tolerance shock pins. I keep 5 different grades of pin in stock and machine them up both bigger and smaller as required.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

It seems like a real mess, so can anyone give me a straight suggestion about what mounting hardware (aside from rwc needle bearings) to go with?

a) Existing Fox
2) Manitou hardware
3) Rockshox hardware
4) something else?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Ive used them all now, literally all in a row in the same week. 

It makes no difference. Even the RWS needle bearings only make a difference if your linkages rotate significantly. 

I like the black anodized aluminum cylinders, because they look cool. They dont seem to do anything that the other bushings didnt do too.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

One Pivot said:


> Ive used them all now, literally all in a row in the same week.
> 
> It makes no difference. Even the RWS needle bearings only make a difference if your linkages rotate significantly.
> 
> I like the black anodized aluminum cylinders, because they look cool. They dont seem to do anything that the other bushings didnt do too.


Does the 2015 Bronson linkages rotate significantly?

I think I get it now. Once the shock comes in, I'll take them all apart, and look and see what fits or go to an LBS


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Desertride said:


> It seems like a real mess, so can anyone give me a straight suggestion about what mounting hardware (aside from rwc needle bearings) to go with?
> 
> a) Existing Fox
> 2) Manitou hardware
> ...


Manitou fits best (obviously).
Rockshox generally fits second best. Because the RS DU bushings are from the same manufacturer they're the same tolerance.
Fox is 50/50 on fitting, being too tight or too loose.

I have these great IGUS pre-tensioned bushings which can solve 90% of tolerance issues: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/1-2-pre-tensioned-igus-eyelet-bushing.html
They span span +/- 1 tolerance grade to cover 3/5 of the pin grades I keep in stock.


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## pirati (Jul 21, 2004)

*Tuning tips ?*

Setup: 
- 100m SC Superlight 26er (single pivot) with 200x50mm McLeod (2:1 leverage ratio)
- 180 lbs rider weight (with gear)
- set McLeod at 70-75psi after trying higher pressure
- about halfway clicks for rebound

Ugraded to McLeod coming from a Swinger SPV 3-Way:
- shock is now using full travel (wasn't that easy with the Swinger)
- more supple
- on the fly platform adjustment works great

Only thing I'm still trying to tune is small bump compliance: have played around with rebound, but still feels a bit harsh when hitting 'square' type obstacles (rocks, roots).

Any tips on how I could further improve small bump (re-)action ?

thanks !


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

29er?

plus tires?


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## pirati (Jul 21, 2004)

levity said:


> 29er?
> 
> plus tires?


if referring to my post: 26er, 2.25 tires

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Manitou fits best (obviously).
> Rockshox generally fits second best. Because the RS DU bushings are from the same manufacturer they're the same tolerance.
> Fox is 50/50 on fitting, being too tight or too loose.
> 
> ...


Can't find anywhere that sells the manitou so I guess I'll go with rockshox in case the Fox doesn't fit.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> Can't find anywhere that sells the manitou so I guess I'll go with rockshox in case the Fox doesn't fit.


About 3/4 of the way down on the page. Last 3 under "manitou rear shock parts"

https://www.universalcycles.com/search.php?q=Manitou+


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> About 3/4 of the way down on the page. Last 3 under "manitou rear shock parts"
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/search.php?q=Manitou+


Thank you! I asked in the other Fox thread, but perhaps it belongs in this one. The shop I ordered from confirmed they had the 2018 in stock. But the date of manufacture is 2017/9/4. Is this the 2018 model? Is there a photo of what the decals are on the newest model?

I only ask because in the other Fox thread you mentioned the 2018 is just about perfect out of the box without a tune.

Going to try and install it right now and see if I need new hardware.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> Thank you! I asked in the other Fox thread, but perhaps it belongs in this one. The shop I ordered from confirmed they had the 2018 in stock. But the date of manufacture is 2017/9/4. Is this the 2018 model? Is there a photo of what the decals are on the newest model?
> 
> I only ask because in the other Fox thread you mentioned the 2018 is just about perfect out of the box without a tune.
> 
> Going to try and install it right now and see if I need new hardware.


I answered in the other thread, but its probably best to share it here as well.

The 9/2017 build dates are 2018 shocks with the hardware updates, but slightly different shim stacks than the second production run. Both tunes are excellent, and can be changed by the end user if desired.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> I answered in the other thread, but its probably best to share it here as well.
> 
> The 9/2017 build dates are 2018 shocks with the hardware updates, but slightly different shim stacks than the second production run. Both tunes are excellent, and can be changed by the end user if desired.


Ordered from Germany (usually deliver to israel within two weeks) so it will likely be old stock, but still very much looking forward to tossing out the rp23.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Desertride said:


> Ordered from Germany (usually deliver to israel within two weeks) so it will likely be old stock, but still very much looking forward to tossing out the rp23.


I also ordered from Germany (bike24).


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> I answered in the other thread, but its probably best to share it here as well.
> 
> The 9/2017 build dates are 2018 shocks with the hardware updates, but slightly different shim stacks than the second production run. Both tunes are excellent, and can be changed by the end user if desired.


Awesome thanks! Can you share what the tendencies of the different tunes are? But then again, if they're very close with only a slightly different tune than someone like me would maybe not even notice a difference.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

Cool, then hopefully I'll get a 2018. BTW, why didn't you order the mounting hardware from bike24 as well? A few days ago when I ordered 8x22.2 it was like 7.5 euro per set?


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

I just ordered the bushings from here: https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=126091

They fit perfectly but do not feel as smooth as bearings do, for example. I just pushed the bottom bushing through the eyelet by hand.

Is it usually recommended to put grease anywhere within the bushings? It all fits so tightly together that I imagine any grease will be pressed out.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

olivierhacking said:


> I just ordered the bushings from here: https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=126091
> 
> They fit perfectly but do not feel as smooth as bearings do, for example. I just pushed the bottom bushing through the eyelet by hand.
> 
> Is it usually recommended to put grease anywhere within the bushings? It all fits so tightly together that I imagine any grease will be pressed out.


If you can push bushing in by hand, it's to small. These are interference fittings to you need to press into place. You need a vice or some sort of press to do that job.

If it's only hand loose, I imagine it can rotate and ovalize the bore over time.

Also no grease needed, most du bushings have a coating that does wear out over time.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Desertride said:


> Cool, then hopefully I'll get a 2018. BTW, why didn't you order the mounting hardware from bike24 as well? A few days ago when I ordered 8x22.2 it was like 7.5 euro per set?


Because I'm a neophyte and didn't even know it was needed. So many different standards is making my head spin.

If I need it I'll just order it  I found a place selling it for $23 for the pair (and if I order $40 it'll be free shipping).

I just spent a night to figure out what bottom bracket tool I need (PF30 BB30 GXP OMG) . Next up wheel headset and pedal bearings, and then I think I can maintain the bike at home lol.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

seamarsh said:


> If you can push bushing in by hand, it's to small. These are interference fittings to you need to press into place. You need a vice or some sort of press to do that job.
> 
> If it's only hand loose, I imagine it can rotate and ovalize the bore over time.
> 
> Also no grease needed, most du bushings have a coating that does wear out over time.


So is the one I linked from bike24 a DU bushing? 
It took quite some pushing and twisting effort to get it through the eyelet, so it sits very flush. The bushings are 12.7mm, exactly what should fit in the Mcleod. 
But the suspension movement does not feel very smooth. Maybe I will share pictures.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

olivierhacking said:


> So is the one I linked from bike24 a DU bushing?
> It took quite some pushing and twisting effort to get it through the eyelet, so it sits very flush. The bushings are 12.7mm, exactly what should fit in the Mcleod.
> But the suspension movement does not feel very smooth. Maybe I will share pictures.


Does not look like it as those look to be metal. DU Bushings are a polymer material and normally either creme colored or black.
Here is an example of the FOX DU Bushings.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Fox-Shox-...MIyfG8wLCB3AIVGMNkCh3J6Ar5EAQYAyABEgKefvD_BwE


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

The du bushing should already be installed in the eyelet from the factory.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Desertride said:


> The du bushing should already be installed in the eyelet from the factory.


Correct

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Desertride said:


> The du bushing should already be installed in the eyelet from the factory.


Yes, the eyelet had something inside it. It was indeed some kind of polymer, and red colored - you can see it in the very first pictures of this thread. Through that, I pressed the metal rod from bike24. And through this rod, the M8 bolts of the frame. With the metal spacers on either side of the eyelet.


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

Any thoughts on how this shock would compare to a fox DPS Evol on a Mojo 3 (DW Link)?
I'm a 190lb rider looking to improve performance for rough trail riding and enduro downs.
Should I add the King Can as well?
thanks


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

dtheo said:


> Any thoughts on how this shock would compare to a fox DPS Evol on a Mojo 3 (DW Link)?
> I'm a 190lb rider looking to improve performance for rough trail riding and enduro downs.
> Should I add the King Can as well?
> thanks


better in every way, except not quite as supple in the parking lot due to fixed negative spring pressure. the damping quality will blow you away though coming from DPS. best $200 you could spend probably.

i'd be careful with full volume king can with that leverage ratio and your weight. MAYBE king can with intermediate spacer installed.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

dtheo said:


> Any thoughts on how this shock would compare to a fox DPS Evol on a Mojo 3 (DW Link)?
> I'm a 190lb rider looking to improve performance for rough trail riding and enduro downs.
> Should I add the King Can as well?
> thanks


It will make you wonder why fox cant produce a decent inline rear shock.

Not familiar with the mojo leverage curve, but I would try the normal can first before dropping extra cash on a king can. You can always buy it later if its needed.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> It will make you wonder why fox cant produce a decent inline rear shock.
> 
> Not familiar with the mojo leverage curve, but I would try the normal can first before dropping extra cash on a king can. You can always buy it later if its needed.


Can't, or won't? 

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> It will make you wonder why fox cant produce a decent inline rear shock.
> 
> Not familiar with the mojo leverage curve, but I would try the normal can first before dropping extra cash on a king can. You can always buy it later if its needed.


Yeah, the Mojo has a weird U shaped leverage curve that should work better with a small can. The big can may lead to too easy bottom out.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

FactoryMatt said:


> better in every way, except not quite as supple in the parking lot due to fixed negative spring pressure. the damping quality will blow you away though coming from DPS. best $200 you could spend probably.
> 
> i'd be careful with full volume king can with that leverage ratio and your weight. MAYBE king can with intermediate spacer installed.


I have a knolly warden and i just bought the mcleod with king Can.
For my bike do you suggest medium or full volume? The knolly is progressive so i would use full volume but leverage ratio is similar to the ibis (i guess). My weight is 85 kg.
Thanks


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

dtheo said:


> Any thoughts on how this shock would compare to a fox DPS Evol on a Mojo 3 (DW Link)?
> I'm a 190lb rider looking to improve performance for rough trail riding and enduro downs.
> Should I add the King Can as well?
> thanks


Running a McLeod on a Mojo SLR. Standard can with a medium sized volume spacer inside to give a tad extra ramp at the end as the bike likes to use all of its travel very easily.

Brilliant shock, the Fox I found would just sink into its travel and then just bottom out on mild hits despite playing with volume spacers, the McLeod has none of this wallow and gives a very supportive feel but still soaks up the trail with ease.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ok i ordered a mcleod from bike24, it was a fresh stock, i'm sure about this because they have been out of stock for one week and they ordered new ones. It arrived yesterday but it's still a late 2017 batch.

I removed the standard can and installed the king Can with medium volume.
Everything worked fine (i hope), i see no leaks.

When i had to reinstall the can on the thread i had an unexpected issue, the king can was spinning since it is 2 piece unlike the standard can, so i had to grip at the borders to thread it.

My only question is: to reset the negative chamber with the king can i have to just slide down and up the external piece or need to unthread the entire can?
I still don't understand where the negative is located.

Thanks.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

davideb87 said:


> Ok i ordered a mcleod from bike24, it was a fresh stock, i'm sure about this because they have been out of stock for one week and they ordered new ones. It arrived yesterday but it's still a late 2017 batch.
> 
> I removed the standard can and installed the king Can with medium volume.
> Everything worked fine (i hope), i see no leaks.
> ...


No, once you put in the main can, the negative side set. You don't need to do anything with the outside part, unless you want to reduce volume a bit.

Yeah, with the king can, you need to grab the nut not the bottom to get it off and on.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Vespasianus said:


> No, once you put in the main can, the negative side set. You don't need to do anything with the outside part, unless you want to reduce volume a bit.
> 
> Yeah, with the king can, you need to grab the nut not the bottom to get it off and on.


Thank you


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

davideb87 said:


> Thank you











Also, you can see the negative air portion here in this cut- away. That space is "left over" when you attach the can and screw it on and acts as the negative air space (the area just below the air piston).


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Yesterday i tried to install mcleod remote but i couldn't make it work.
When i lock it with the remote and then i release it stays stuck in the IPA 4 position.
Without the cable i noticed that the spring works properly when in IPA 1 to 3 and the lever goes back when released.
It just stuck in IPA 4/max lockout.
I followed the manitou video on YouTube, any suggestion?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

One of the 1.5mm grub screws on the shock top adjusts tension on the ipa lever shaft. Loosen this carefully and you should get the return you need.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

FactoryMatt said:


> One of the 1.5mm grub screws on the shock top adjusts tension on the ipa lever shaft. Loosen this carefully and you should get the return you need.


Thanks, i tried to loose the detent screw (the vertical one), it seems to light the lever but it doesn't affect the lever stuck at IPA 4...


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

David, this also happened to mine and Manitou asked me to send it in to be fixed which they did. They are all kinda sticky on the high school platform end, but this one was worse than others.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

yogiprophet said:


> David, this also happened to mine and Manitou asked me to send it in to be fixed which they did. They are all kinda sticky on the high school platform end, but this one was worse than others.


Thanks a lot. my mcleod works very well and i don't want to send it for now, this is a minor issue.
It was a good thing to lock it from the handlebar, but i can live without it tough.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

I run an Intense Primer, and just got the updated '2018' valve and shim stack put in a new 200x56 Mcleod. Was a 7/2017 build date shock that the techs @ Manitou kindly revised for me with the new piston and shim stack. My original shock was a 2015 build 200x51 Mcleod with full volume king can.

HUGE difference for sure in the action of the shock. Between the presumably larger negative spring chamber (200x56 king can is LONGER than the 190/200x51 can) and the new, lighter damping, my Intense Primer finally feels like a trail bike.

I went from not being able to use more than 75% of travel on ~130mm~ @ 140psi (w/ full-volume KingCan) to using near entirety of travel at ~140mm~ @ 138psi (same air can config).

There's no more spiking, the bike feels 'active' now, and I actually have reason to use the IPA lever. I noticed that Pos. 4 does not feel as fully locked out as before, but it still limits movement enough to be effective on concrete and smooth fire roads. Where before, #4 was harsh on anything but smooth roads, the #4 setting now can be used effectively on actual trails and still provide some 'blowoff'.

for my weight (76kg) and riding (aggressive trail on a ~2.5:1 leverage ratio), the new valving configuration is a huge improvement coming from an early 2015 build Mcleod. I went from contemplating trying out a DPX2 to being completely content with the way the bike rides now. Avoided putting $500 in Fox's pocket and about a quarter pound in weight! Really stoked. This thing is amazing!


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

FactoryMatt said:


> I run an Intense Primer, and just got the updated '2018' valve and shim stack put in a new 200x56 Mcleod. Was a 7/2017 build date shock that the techs @ Manitou kindly revised for me with the new piston and shim stack. My original shock was a 2015 build 200x51 Mcleod with full volume king can.
> 
> HUGE difference for sure in the action of the shock. Between the presumably larger negative spring chamber (200x56 king can is LONGER than the 190/200x51 can) and the new, lighter damping, my Intense Primer finally feels like a trail bike.
> 
> ...


Sounds amazing... had a mcleod on a tallboy (vpp) 100mm bike. Night and day vs the fox stuff.
Now on a TB3, thinking to get a mcleod again. Your review on a vpp bike just pushed me into it more so.

@dougal & all resident gurus,
I weigh around 85kg, is the king can needed? Please note it needs to be a 185x45 spaced down shock, on a vpp bike. 110 mm travel rear.
Should I assume negative chamber will be smaller from the spacers?

Thx
Oren


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

My McLeod seems to be using all its travel on almost all my rides, even if I don’t have any jumps or drops. I have the sag set to 30%. If I am riding over roots it feels like my rear tries to buck me off like I have the air pressure off. I lowered it 10 psi but still feels the same. I am wondering if I need a service or different tune? Any suggestions on how to make the small bumps better?

On drops it does feel great and doesn’t bottom out. 

Intense Spider 275 130mm rear
170 lbs 
145psi 
200x51


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

will need confirmation from manitou, but i wonder if the longer 200x56 king can would fit? I think the negative spring chamber is larger. 

otherwise, a different tune would help.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

FactoryMatt said:


> I run an Intense Primer, and just got the updated '2018' valve and shim stack put in a new 200x56 Mcleod. Was a 7/2017 build date shock that the techs @ Manitou kindly revised for me with the new piston and shim stack. My original shock was a 2015 build 200x51 Mcleod with full volume king can.
> 
> HUGE difference for sure in the action of the shock. Between the presumably larger negative spring chamber (200x56 king can is LONGER than the 190/200x51 can) and the new, lighter damping, my Intense Primer finally feels like a trail bike.
> 
> ...


That is great to hear.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nashwillis said:


> My McLeod seems to be using all its travel on almost all my rides, even if I don't have any jumps or drops. I have the sag set to 30%. If I am riding over roots it feels like my rear tries to buck me off like I have the air pressure off. I lowered it 10 psi but still feels the same. I am wondering if I need a service or different tune? Any suggestions on how to make the small bumps better?
> 
> On drops it does feel great and doesn't bottom out.
> 
> ...


If you are using all of your travel easily, why would you think lowering pressure 10psi would help?

Sounds like you need to mess with the air pressure and spring curve (by changing volume). Adjust the rebound for the kicking. You can run slower than normal on the McLeod because the rebound shim stack actually works.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

i think he means it bucks on compression though.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nashwillis said:


> My McLeod seems to be using all its travel on almost all my rides, even if I don't have any jumps or drops. I have the sag set to 30%. If I am riding over roots it feels like my rear tries to buck me off like I have the air pressure off. I lowered it 10 psi but still feels the same. I am wondering if I need a service or different tune? Any suggestions on how to make the small bumps better?
> 
> On drops it does feel great and doesn't bottom out.
> 
> ...


Are you running into the end of stroke progression?

If you really want to know what's going on. Video your shock.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Are you running into the end of stroke progression?
> 
> If you really want to know what's going on. Video your shock.


I hope he replies back here, but I bet he's talking about small bump. That bikes got a lot of AS.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

OrenPerets said:


> Sounds amazing... had a mcleod on a tallboy (vpp) 100mm bike. Night and day vs the fox stuff.
> Now on a TB3, thinking to get a mcleod again. Your review on a vpp bike just pushed me into it more so.
> 
> @dougal & all resident gurus,
> ...


Not a guru, but looking at the TB3 leverage ratio it does not look that progressive. I would try the standard can first and then maybe the king can set at half if you are struggling to get full travel or need/want more mid support.

Santa Cruz Tallboy 2017 - Linkage Design

Originální tunning Manitou MRD - Tech news | BikeAndRide.cz


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

R_Pierce said:


> I hope he replies back here, but I bet he's talking about small bump. That bikes got a lot of AS.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


I should of stated my question better but was having trouble on my phone deleting words. I am trying to get better small bump compliance. using all the travel i am fine with, i did bottom out today when landing early. I believe the spider 275 has a progressive ratio curve. I am no suspension expert so no exactly sure how to achieve what i want.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

nashwillis said:


> I should of stated my question better but was having trouble on my phone deleting words. I am trying to get better small bump compliance. using all the travel i am fine with, i did bottom out today when landing early. I believe the spider 275 has a progressive ratio curve. I am no suspension expert so no exactly sure how to achieve what i want.


Being an Intense Recluse rider, I figured that was what you were after. I had to go to a coil to get the small bump that I wanted. Its not the shock, its the linkage kinematics.

Although admittedly I did not tune the stack any more. I wanted to try a coil and found it was what I was looking for. With a little more time tuning the shim stack in my Mcleod I likely could have gotten it significantly better.

If Mullen replies again here, he is great with shim stack info. He may be able to help you out if you are willing to tune the stack on your own assuming he can still share some of that information.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nashwillis said:


> I should of stated my question better but was having trouble on my phone deleting words. I am trying to get better small bump compliance. using all the travel i am fine with, i did bottom out today when landing early. I believe the spider 275 has a progressive ratio curve. I am no suspension expert so no exactly sure how to achieve what i want.


You can definitely get some improvements with shim stack changes, but linkage kinematics are what they are and it's never going to be a bike that excels in small bump sensitivity.

The first thing I would do (if you haven't already) is reset the negative air spring by removing the air can, regreasing, and reinstall. The negative spring naturally loses pressure over time and needs reset. A symptom of it being time for a reset is harshness at the top of the stroke.

If you are interested in shim tuning, buy a IFP tool. It's a very easy shock to rebuild. There will be a tuning guide that comes out in the somewhat near future. I can help with some shim stack guidance until then if needed.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> You can definitely get some improvements with shim stack changes, but linkage kinematics are what they are and it's never going to be a bike that excels in small bump sensitivity.
> 
> The first thing I would do (if you haven't already) is reset the negative air spring by removing the air can, regreasing, and reinstall. The negative spring naturally loses pressure over time and needs reset. A symptom of it being time for a reset is harshness at the top of the stroke.
> 
> If you are interested in shim tuning, buy a IFP tool. It's a very easy shock to rebuild. There will be a tuning guide that comes out in the somewhat near future. I can help with some shim stack guidance until then if needed.


I took the van off and greased it a couple months ago, I would be interested in a shin tune if it would help. I will look into the IFP tool, how near future are you thinking the guide will come out?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nashwillis said:


> I took the van off and greased it a couple months ago, I would be interested in a shin tune if it would help. I will look into the IFP tool, how near future are you thinking the guide will come out?


I have not heard anything about a date, but I know it is mostly out together already. I would guess it would be within a few months.

I have resisted publicly posting tuning info until it comes out. I dont have the time for forums like I used to for answering questions, and from what I have seen, the guide is very well thought out for answering the questions people will have. If you get the tools and want to pull it apart before the guide is available, send me a PM and I can help get you pointed in the right direction.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Can't wait for the guide!


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> I answered in the other thread, but its probably best to share it here as well.
> 
> The 9/2017 build dates are 2018 shocks with the hardware updates, but slightly different shim stacks than the second production run. Both tunes are excellent, and can be changed by the end user if desired.


Looks like I didn't do as well in the batch lottery: MC010517

-or is the stamped code not the production date?


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

Hi, all.

I took the Mcleod out for the first time this morning and loved it. I felt a massive difference from the Monarch I had on there. Tried out the IPA settings and could tell the difference between them, which was nice.

I have sag set at ~30% with 160 psi. It looks like there is some travel left there. Would you all recommend lowering PSI further to get full travel? I weigh 215 geared up.

 

Here's the whole rig.

Thanks, 
Carlos


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Carloswithac said:


> Hi, all.
> 
> I took the Mcleod out for the first time this morning and loved it. I felt a massive difference from the Monarch I had on there. Tried out the IPA settings and could tell the difference between them, which was nice.
> 
> ...


I don't see the pics but yes, feel free to drop a few PSI to see if you get more travel. I am a big proponent of keeping track of everything so you can always go back if you don't like the change.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Carloswithac said:


> Hi, all.
> 
> I took the Mcleod out for the first time this morning and loved it. I felt a massive difference from the Monarch I had on there. Tried out the IPA settings and could tell the difference between them, which was nice.
> 
> ...


What size shock? A king can in mid volume setting would likely work better based on your settings


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> What size shock? A king can in mid volume setting would likely work better based on your settings


168x38.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Carloswithac said:


> 168x38.


That's what I was afraid of looking at your pic. There is no king can for the 165x38.

You can run less pressure, but I would be careful and not run more then 13mm (35%). That's a lot of sag for such a short travel shock.

What is your riding style/skills? Unless you leave the ground often and do drops to flat, I wouldn't worry a little unused travel.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Desertride said:


> Looks like I didn't do as well in the batch lottery: MC010517
> 
> -or is the stamped code not the production date?


Did yours not come in the original box? The box has the build date and the serial number, your serial number is pretty close to mine (MC010571), my build date is listed as 2017/9/7. It also has the job order number listed as JR00373. From mullen119's information, I assume this is a first production batch 2018 model.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Here is my mcleod on my fresh built knolly warden.
King Can with mid volume.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

davideb87 said:


> Here is my mcleod on my fresh built knolly warden.
> King Can with mid volume.


Good looking build 👍


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> That's what I was afraid of looking at your pic. There is no king can for the 165x38.
> 
> You can run less pressure, but I would be careful and not run more then 13mm (35%). That's a lot of sag for such a short travel shock.
> 
> What is your riding style/skills? Unless you leave the ground often and do drops to flat, I wouldn't worry a little unused travel.


Mostly XC/flowy singletracks. Bike park a couple of times over the summer. Ran it with 150 this morning and got a little more travel. Truthfully though, it felt better to me at 160. So I'll get back to that pressure and not worry about the travel. Thank you.


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## olao (Aug 17, 2017)

There has been several questions and posts in the past in this thread about remotes for the McLeod. I built a 3-position remote for the shock and fork from a Shimano XT front shifter. It works perfectly, and uses the full range from position 1 to 4 on the IPA. The challenge was to build the turning spring, that sets the IPA lever back. However, that too was relatively easy.

For the interested you are welcome to check a shared album on Google photos that also has some more descriptive text.

This option is useful for anyone with a bike with a 1x-setup, i.e. if you do not already have a front shifter on your bar.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Okay so the fox hardware came out pretty easy. It is really tight to put into the McLeod tho. Which I think is a good thing. But how do I get it in? Vise? Threaded rod and bolts? Bang it with a mallet?


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

jdang307 said:


> Okay so the fox hardware came out pretty easy. It is really tight to put into the McLeod tho. Which I think is a good thing. But how do I get it in? Vise? Threaded rod and bolts? Bang it with a mallet?


You are trying to install white fox polymer bushing into your new McLeod? If so you are going to need to press out the standard aluminum DU bushings that come installed with the McLeod first.

Those do not come out so easy and require a DU bushing removal tool, but it can be done ghetto style with a vise, socket(s) and small plastic PVC pipe catch. Your best bet is to take McLeod to a bike shop that has a DU bushing removal tool and have them pop them out for you.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

In2falling said:


> You are trying to install white fox polymer bushing into your new McLeod? If so you are going to need to press out the standard aluminum DU bushings that come installed with the McLeod first.
> 
> Those do not come out so easy and require a DU bushing removal tool, but it can be done ghetto style with a vise, socket(s) and small plastic PVC pipe catch. Your best bet is to take McLeod to a bike shop that has a DU bushing removal tool and have them pop them out for you.


No, I was just trying to install the hardware. By my fox has the white polymer bushings. So I thought I could just switch it over. But even if I did, the spacers will not be wide enough, because the mcleod doesn't have the white part that takes up space. I think above they were called tophats. So the brim portions of the tophats take up space. then the black cylinder is passed through, then a tiny oring and another spacer fill the rest of the space.

I guess I need mounting hardware. Or reuse everything including the white parts.


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## tag975 (May 6, 2006)

Hi, I'm reading amazing things about this shock and I like to upgrade the Rock Shox Monarch RT Debonair that is stock on my Alu Bronson V2. So here is my issue. The actual shock size is 200x57 but I can't find this size listed for the McLeod (the nearest is 200x56, so only 1mm shorter). Is this compatible for a SC Bronson V2? Do I need some sort of a new bushing, spacers...? And also the current shock is a debonair, so do I need the King Can also or will the normal one be OK? 
Thank you for your answers.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Yes 200x57 and 200x56 are the same.

I'm sure someone with Bronson experience can chime in. I don't have any with that bike. In theory I know people with them. In reality I don't think I've ever ridden their bikes!


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

Installed the mcleod today using manitou reducers. The only hitch was the variance of the ID between the existing Fox shock reducers and Manitou's. The existing mounting bolt/dowel slid nicely into the Fox hardware but would not slide into the manitou hardware.

I have no idea if this solution is considered correct, and hopefully I kept it within tolerance to prevent knocking: I took the bolt, attached a hex bit to my drill, and spun it in some 220 sandpaper till it slid in cleanly. If I understand correctly, the function of the bolt is to pinch the shock mounting hardware between the frame mounts so they are static, while the bushing moves around the hardware. So I assume a small variance will hopefully not make a difference.


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

Hi, been reading about people doing the reducers/spacers to fit the Mcleod. I have the new ST stumpy which has 190X42.5 shock, thou they must have spacers in it, since if I measure the stroke, is more like 50. I see that now the Mcleod has Metric size, they have one that is 190x45. Any advice if I would be alright using that without it being limited inside? Assuming they limited the stock shock for some type of frame clearance on compression? Not much of an suspension expert here, thanks for any input!


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## Rixington43 (Jul 1, 2016)

Hi All

Wow, what a thread, some great info and consumer advice in here.
Noticed a few people some years ago commenting on running the McLeod on a Cannondale Prophet. I have two Prophets (can't help it, I love the old girls), one runs the Radium RL which I believe does not have SPV (just open or lock out) and this is really nice, the other runs a Radium R and is harsh as hell on small bumps. Given a tune and service on the R costs nearly as much as a McLeod can be had for, do any of you have experience of going from either Radium to a McLeod on a Prophet. I'm a big guy (200lb) and I'm toying with a shock which has an equalised negative spring since I run high positive spring pressure but most modern stuff is HV as falling rate linkages are rare on modern rigs. Is open on the McLeod really open and how locked out is setting 4. I'd be going small volume can obviously as the Prophet needs the ramp up to fight the highly regressive ratio.

Thanks for any input


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I've been running a McLeod on my Prophet for a few years. I still love that bike as well. Mine is converted to 650b and I used an angleset head set to get a 67 degree HTA on my Lefty Max 140, converted to the PBR Air setup. The McLeod is amazing. The IPA adjustment works. I think you can set it up with a handle bar remote lever as well. 

I ride rocky and rooty New England trails. The McLeod blows away the Radium. No King Can, no spacers or reducers. You will need new hardware as the McLeod uses the same as Fox and everyone else now. The old 12mm stuff will not work.


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## Rixington43 (Jul 1, 2016)

Hi there

I think we crossed paths when I needed a black spring for my lefty.
I'm still running both on 26s, the main one is a large with a coil pike and my mess about one is a medium with a coil lefty max 140FFD. Plan is McLeod goes on the main bike, RL moves to the spare.
Thanks for the immediate feedback, I just managed to pull the trigger on CRCs last McLeod in 200x50 for £150. Have also ordered heavy duty IGUS kits in 12.7 as the old girl does eat lower bushings at my weight.

Thanks again, I'll report for the sake of it once it's all done.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Just went for a ride day. As mentioned before, Bronson v1, small. I'm 140lb out of the shower and ride with a camelbak. New Mattoc Pro 2 in front, McLeod in back. I've never set up a suspension before and even doing all the tests they have online (set sag, rebound by riding off the curb, etc.) I can't really tell what's what. Even tried the frequency thing and I'm like, it all feels the same riding on the street.

So I set up what I think is the right sag (200x56 shock), 56mm stroke so .3 = 16.8mm. Only had a ruler with inches so .661 inches. 70 psi. Does that sound right? I did leave the front fork at 160mm (normally 150mm). I thought that PSI was so low.

Anyway, I get on the trail and small hits are still harsh. No small bump compliance etc. Riding at slow to moderate speed over a root (I chased down every small rock and root I could find) and I'd get bucked off my seat on the way over the bump. Rebound was about 3 clicks in.

What am I missing here? Going faster it didn't feel much better either. Rear wheel was flying around.

I do know small bumps is an issue with my bike right, the old VPP design on the Bronson v1. But I would hope it was better than this. I'm sure it is, I just need to figure out how to set it up to get that way.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

I would say you are in the ballpark.. but I would go find a piece of trail and bring your shock pump... play around with more or less psi within a small 10-20 psi range. Also rebound has no clicks on McLeod.. just set it by feel, sounds like you want a little
More rebound. The McLeod rebound is a weird in my opinion.. micro adjustments make a difference.. never ridden the mattoc fork but I’d set at roughly psi and test again on a piece of trail. 

Sag can get you in the ballpark the rest is paying attention to how it works with speed and terrain you ride most. 

Lastly, not sure how much you ride but.. I will say so much of how suspension feels is how in shape you are and how light you are on the bike... at least I find. If I’m
On my game and feeling in shape staying loose on the bike, no death grip, and following terrain with my body it feels like a different bike.

Forgot to add.. with any new suspension.. does tend to have a little break in time.. more so with forks.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

when you say more rebound you mean more rebound damping? Or faster rebound (less damping).

I did the test Dougal says to do for rebound on his site. This morning I rode 70 psi, rebound about halfway. Right now doing his test, I upped the psi to about 77, but doing the "slam your butt on the seat" test and at wide open, my butt didn't move. It came back but didn't rock me off or buck me or anything. Butt was planted in the seat.

Going to ride a trail with bigger hits and a long super rocky fire road section tomorrow and see what my new settings net me.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

I was just looking at my pressure, I'm 165 no gear and running about 135 to get 15mm of sag.. so you may need more pressure. Really only 2 things to set, air pressure and rebound.

Bring a pump to a piece of trail like I said and test.

Good way to understand what does what is ride a section with rebound all the way in , then ride it again with it all the way out. Turned in is more rebound dampening, turned out is less.

Sometimes running at extremes helps your brain understand what is going on.. then you can tune from there.

Lots of ways to get to the same place.

I like this video, try and follow this technique.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Started my ride with no rebound damping. Things were a little harsh still. Added 1/4 turn, got better, and added another 1/4 turn and it feels pretty good. Going to keep testing but it's running much better.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

jdang307 said:


> Started my ride with no rebound damping. Things were a little harsh still. Added 1/4 turn, got better, and added another 1/4 turn and it feels pretty good. Going to keep testing but it's running much better.


I found for me about half way in on the stock Mcleod tune was about perfect for rebound. So between 3/4 to 1 full turn in from full open.

Keep messing with it and you will finds its sweet spot. Just remember that the shock is only going to overcome so much of the linkage kinematics.


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## Rixington43 (Jul 1, 2016)

Caveats (Cannondale Prophet with a 3:1 falling rate linkage and a 200lb rider)
McLeod arrived today.

First things first: 
- New low friction polymer bushings and heavy duty mounts fitted. I also did an immediate air car service to ensure the negative spring was fully charged and to pop a bit of RSP Air Fluid in the can as Manitou favour using just grease and I still fear this gets pushed to the end of the shock and stays there when the shock is horizontally mounted. 
- I did need to adjust the set screw to get the IPA to stop at open rather than nearly an eighth turn past, dab of loctite sorts this though. 
- Nice that you can make the detents more or less pronounced, I prefer a firm click for adjusting on the fly with gloves, especially since my frame dictates the adjuster is under the shock. 
- I'm running 170psi for 22% sag and about 1/2 a turn (out of 1 1/4 it seems) of rebound (I err towards fast as I ride XC with minimal big hits so I want the traction over medium rough terrain first and foremost).
- A really hard bunny hop uses about 75-80% travel which seems spot on to me, the standard air can does a good job of ramping up to counteract the falling rate and produce a fairly linear midstroke without easily bottoming out.

Initial thoughts:
- There is a tiny (really tiny) amount of stiction in the brand new seals which I expect to go over run in, the falling rate does lend itself to a bit of anti-bob even with the IPA wide open.
- IPA settings make a huge difference, on 4 there is zero movement when pedalling in the saddle and only a slow 'give' when standing. This is perfect for me as a fully locked shock tends to give me pains in bad places on prolonged seated climbs as English roads are predominantly awful.
- The rebound damping range is massive for only 1 1/4 turns, adjust with care, tiny changes make a big difference.

Overall I'm really pleased with the performance for the money and it's a definite upgrade on my 13 year old Radium R. I look forward to showing it some trails this weekend to get the settings a bit more dialled. Sure the need to reset the negative spring can be viewed as a downside but I've never needed to reset my Radiums more often than I would open them for a clean and re-lube anyway so it's kind of a nice service reminder  Benefit over a self balancing chamber is that failure of the more exposed lower air can seal isn't a walk home moment.
Hopefully longevitity is on par with the Radium which wasn't serviced for 10 years before I took ownership and still worked fine.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and experiences on this thread, it has lead me to make what I hope will be a great purchase


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

I just got what is supposed to be a 200x50mm McLeod for my bike but when I mounted it, the yoke just touched the seattube. I pulled it off and it measures 8" not 7.875"/200mm once I get to about 125 psi in it. 
I contacted Manitou and they said to reinstall the can which I did but no change. 
Any ideas how this is possible?
Am I not getting air in the negative even though I cycled it every 50psi?
Could I have been given a metric 210mm in error and can I reduce that to 200mm?

thanks


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## Rixington43 (Jul 1, 2016)

I'm no expert but I can't see how the eye to eye on the shock could ever be longer than the stated dimension once the air can is fitted. With the air can completely removed the shock can be slightly over length as the top out bumper presumably prevents the damping head from hitting the inside of the main piston. With the air can screwed into it's threads the shock should either be under length due to the negative chamber or very close to 200 with air pressure in it. My 200x50 is about 196-198 fully charged and I assume the last couple of mm is to allow for the top out bumper to be slightly compressed under harsh top outs.
If you've never had the air can off then I'd suggest it's a Manitou issue as it's either the wrong length shock or they've forgotten to fit the top out bumper.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

dtheo said:


> I just got what is supposed to be a 200x50mm McLeod for my bike but when I mounted it, the yoke just touched the seattube. I pulled it off and it measures 8" not 7.875"/200mm once I get to about 125 psi in it.
> I contacted Manitou and they said to reinstall the can which I did but no change.
> Any ideas how this is possible?
> Am I not getting air in the negative even though I cycled it every 50psi?
> ...


Does it have the red top-out pad inside the air-can? The shock will be longer if that is missing.
How long is it measuring and what is the bike?

McLeod's use trapped air in the negative. Cycling it doesn't do anything.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

dtheo said:


> I just got what is supposed to be a 200x50mm McLeod for my bike but when I mounted it, the yoke just touched the seattube. I pulled it off and it measures 8" not 7.875"/200mm once I get to about 125 psi in it.
> I contacted Manitou and they said to reinstall the can which I did but no change.
> Any ideas how this is possible?
> Am I not getting air in the negative even though I cycled it every 50psi?
> ...


There is no need to cycle the shock every 50psi, manitou shocks do not work this way. The negative spring is charged by removing the air can and reinstalling it.

When you pulled the air can off (I'm assuming you did from your post), did you find a red top bumper either in the air can, on on the shock body?


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

Yes, the red bumper is there.
I pulled the can several times now under the advice of Nick at Manitou to get air in the negative chamber
Still would get to 8" but I put it back on the bike and aired it up while sitting on it to fully compress and make sure it's getting negative air, at least in my theory.
It's a little better but not great. I am comfortable with giving it a ride tomorrow
bike is Ibis Mojo3. mcleod was measuring 8" not 7.875"

[email protected]% sag. ok, but close







McLeod - initially touching







factory - before Mcleod










mullen119 said:


> There is no need to cycle the shock every 50psi, manitou shocks do not work this way. The negative spring is charged by removing the air can and reinstalling it.
> 
> When you pulled the air can off (I'm assuming you did from your post), did you find a red top bumper either in the air can, on on the shock body?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

dtheo said:


> Yes, the red bumper is there.
> I pulled the can several times now under the advice of Nick at Manitou to get air in the negative chamber
> Still would get to 8" but I put it back on the bike and aired it up while sitting on it to fully compress and make sure it's getting negative air, at least in my theory.
> It's a little better but not great. I am comfortable with giving it a ride tomorrow
> ...


I wouldn't ride it with it that close to touching..

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Two bumpers will give you the clearance you need. But it's weird all round.

I have a PDF here from Manitou with identification lengths. The 200mm shocks should be 201.9mm i2i with the air-can removed and 197-200mm i2i with the air can installed at 100psi.

Can you remove the air-can and measure the length?


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## Rixington43 (Jul 1, 2016)

Checked mine again in case it helps, although it just confirms Dougal's info from Manitou.
Can off = 202mm
Can on @170psi = 199mm

P.s Just noticed today that mine is build date 2014 even though it's brand new. Anything to look out for reliability wise from the earlier production runs? Few prior posts seemed concerned about getting new stock, or is that just the magpie at work 😉.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I would say that they sent you the wrong shock. Nothing will make it shorter.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

a call to Manitou with serial number in hand would save alot of guess work.


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

Those measurements are correct. Once I get around 125psi is when it extends again to 201.9.
Running a King can which I don't think I mentioned



Dougal said:


> Two bumpers will give you the clearance you need. But it's weird all round.
> 
> I have a PDF here from Manitou with identification lengths. The 200mm shocks should be 201.9mm i2i with the air-can removed and 197-200mm i2i with the air can installed at 100psi.
> 
> Can you remove the air-can and measure the length?


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## Rixington43 (Jul 1, 2016)

Right shock, wrong king can maybe?
Presumably it came with a standard can, if so, fit this and see if you get the same problem. I'd definitely avoid riding it though since a longer air can would mean your top out is presumably happening inside the damping piston which could damage the internals.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

dtheo said:


> Those measurements are correct. Once I get around 125psi is when it extends again to 201.9.
> Running a King can which I don't think I mentioned


Indeed, the King can's are longer internally. I don't know why but they are.

If you have another top-out bumper then I'd stack one inside the air-can and see if that gives you the length decrease you need.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

No concerns with the 2014 version. I am still running my OG with lots and lots of miles on it and only at the beginning of this season did I do a can seal replacement. Never run into any issues.


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## Rixington43 (Jul 1, 2016)

gregnash said:


> No concerns with the 2014 version. I am still running my OG with lots and lots of miles on it and only at the beginning of this season did I do a can seal replacement. Never run into any issues.


Good to hear, doesn't look like much has changed bar decals anyway. If Hayes have made a shock half as tough as the two sets of HFX-9s I still run then I'm on to a winner 😁


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I see on the manitou website that metric shocks are now listed. Unfortunately I dont see 165x45 in the list. Is there any hope for a trunnion McLeod in the future?


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## Trailhwk17 (Jun 21, 2018)

For a 2018 Trek Fuel EX8 I put a Mattoc Pro fork on (replaced Fox Rhythm 34) and love it. LBS suggests I consider replacing my stock Fox ReaKtiv shock to now match better performance of the Fork. They are into matchy matchy on the mfr. of shock and fork (same feel and balance). Unfortunately the shock size is a trunion 210x52.5. My ? for Dougal or others in the know - based on the Fuel suspension design I assume a King Can is not needed as well?


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Trailhwk17 said:


> Unfortunately the shock size is a trunion 210x52.5.


That's probably a 210x55 reduced by 2.5mm, I think I have read something about 2.5mm spacers being "standard" for metric shocks. However the stock Evol reaktiv shock blows through travel very easily so you might get a better ride with a 210x50 Mcleod. You would lose about 6mm of travel and gain actual low speed compression damping.


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## Trailhwk17 (Jun 21, 2018)

R_Pierce said:


> Mattoc and Mcleod are the best kept "secrets" in suspension IMO. People are quick to write them off due to their past. The current line of products is amazing!


So I wanted to weigh in here in the Southeastern part of the USA. I just put a Mattoc Pro on my '18 Fuel Trek EX8 and agree Manitou is a best kept secret but hoping that changes in the USA soon. I'm now trying to figure out how to get a McLeod on this bike since it has a 210x52.5 stroke (55 may work but void the frame warranty).


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Question: when is it time to do more maintenance on your McLeod than simply removing and reinstalling the aircan? I've done the aircan thing the last time but it tops out roughly quite quickly after doing it. When is it time to do an IFP Service & Shock Bleed or a complete service?


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## Trailhwk17 (Jun 21, 2018)

PhillipJ said:


> That's probably a 210x55 reduced by 2.5mm, I think I have read something about 2.5mm spacers being "standard" for metric shocks. However the stock Evol reaktiv shock blows through travel very easily so you might get a better ride with a 210x50 Mcleod. You would lose about 6mm of travel and gain actual low speed compression damping.


Hmm interesting thought to go with a 210x50. Yes my experience matches yours that the stock Reaktiv is very soft. I keep it on "Trail" vs. fully open most of the time and now that I'm riding more aggressively with the Mattoc Pro up front the clunking of the Fox ReaKtiv is starting to draw my attention away from the trail. I would appreciate a few other of the experts here weighing in if they think this shock at 210x50 would be a good replacement on this bike. I don't see anyone in this thread referring to using it on a newer Trek Fuel EX. BTW I'm running 27.5" 2.8 tires with frame in the higher BB setting with 15-18 psi front, 20-22 psi rear.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Trailhwk17 said:


> I'm running 27.5" 2.8 tires


I wouldn't short shock with 27+ tyres, your pedals would be on the ground. The frame clears 29" tyres with a 210x55 shock, that's probably a better option for your setup.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

CS645 said:


> Question: when is it time to do more maintenance on your McLeod than simply removing and reinstalling the aircan? I've done the aircan thing the last time but it tops out roughly quite quickly after doing it. When is it time to do an IFP Service & Shock Bleed or a complete service?


If you are resetting the air can and it quickly starts having a harsh top out, you are likely losing negative spring pressure. This can happen because of a scratch on the shock body (unlikely since you didn't mention one) or because the air can seals need replaced. There is also an outside chance there is some sort of contamination in the air can seals that is letting air by.

You can get air seals here

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83542

Or here

https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC171377/manitou-air-can-seal-kit-mcleod-air-shocks

Unless the damper shows signs of a issue or you want to try tuning it, I would not worry about a damper service.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Anyone know where I can get a new air filler? I just snapped mine off due to carelessness. I was able to get the broken bits out and the threads still look good, thankfully.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> If you are resetting the air can and it quickly starts having a harsh top out, you are likely losing negative spring pressure. This can happen because of a scratch on the shock body (unlikely since you didn't mention one) or because the air can seals need replaced. There is also an outside chance there is some sort of contamination in the air can seals that is letting air by.
> 
> You can get air seals here
> 
> ...


Thanks, well it's my wifes McLeod and the coating on the stanchions are showing some significant wear I suppose from cleaning the aircan seals too late. I replaced the seals when resetting the aircan, so don't think it it's the seals. Probably the wear is causing the issue?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

CS645 said:


> Thanks, well it's my wifes McLeod and the coating on the stanchions are showing some significant wear I suppose from cleaning the aircan seals too late. I replaced the seals when resetting the aircan, so don't think it it's the seals. Probably the wear is causing the issue?


It could be the wear, post a pic of you can.

It could also be something as simple as debris caught in the seal somewhere. I would pull the can and seals again and reinstall them while taking precautions to be as clean as possible. Use slicoluem when installing seals


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> It could be the wear, post a pic of you can.
> 
> It could also be something as simple as debris caught in the seal somewhere. I would pull the can and seals again and reinstall them while taking precautions to be as clean as possible. Use slicoluem when installing seals


Well, think the chances of debris are pretty slim because I'm pretty picky about keeping everything clean when working on stuff (used slicoleum). But I will try again.

Below a picture of the wear. Was a bit cross for not having prevented it from happening but with moving and all I had other things on my mind.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

CS645 said:


> Well, think the chances of debris are pretty slim because I'm pretty picky about keeping everything clean when working on stuff (used slicoleum). But I will try again.
> 
> Below a picture of the wear. Was a bit cross for not having prevented it from happening but with moving and all I had other things on my mind.
> 
> View attachment 1210908


That is certainly not helping. If you cant feel it, its probably not letting air by, but it can cause the seals to wear faster.

Degrease and reinstall the can, and add a little oil in to the main air chamber. It will work it's way past the seals and help keep the can seals lube. It buy some time. A new shock body is needed for long term use though.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> That is certainly not helping. If you cant feel it, its probably not letting air by, but it can cause the seals to wear faster.
> 
> Degrease and reinstall the can, and add a little oil in to the main air chamber. It will work it's way past the seals and help keep the can seals lube. It buy some time. A new shock body is needed for long term use though.


Thanks again.

If I can buy a compete McLeod new for 185,- than I suspect long term that would be a good option. Separate parts probably won't be worth the hassle or save me much cash?


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

PhillipJ said:


> I wouldn't short shock with 27+ tyres, your pedals would be on the ground. The frame clears 29" tyres with a 210x55 shock, that's probably a better option for your setup.


Putting a 2.5mm spacer in isn't "short shocking" and likely is exactly how Trek was able to spec that length shock to begin with. It reduces full bottom out by the compressed thickness of the spacer. Go for it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> That's what I was afraid of looking at your pic. There is no king can for the 165x38.
> 
> You can run less pressure, but I would be careful and not run more then 13mm (35%). That's a lot of sag for such a short travel shock.
> 
> What is your riding style/skills? Unless you leave the ground often and do drops to flat, I wouldn't worry a little unused travel.


Finally got full travel on it. It took the trails at a downhill bike park over the weekend. I was finally able to dial it in how I like it. I absolutely love this shock.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

GuitsBoy said:


> Anyone know where I can get a new air filler? I just snapped mine off due to carelessness. I was able to get the broken bits out and the threads still look good, thankfully.


Seems that a RockShox Monarch valve fits. So far its holding air. Hope to get a ride on it tonight.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GuitsBoy said:


> Anyone know where I can get a new air filler? I just snapped mine off due to carelessness. I was able to get the broken bits out and the threads still look good, thankfully.


https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-air-valve-kit-manitou.html


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Dougal said:


> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-air-valve-kit-manitou.html


Thanks Dougal. I had already found the part from your site soon after asking here, but rolled the dice on the RS part first wince I could get the part overnight from amazon prime. I hope you dont take any offense. I'll probably be placing an order from you in the near future for the proper part, along with some seals and anything else I might need in the future, that way I have it on hand. Thanks.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Little_twin said:


> Putting a 2.5mm spacer in isn't "short shocking" and likely is exactly how Trek was able to spec that length shock to begin with.


No, but running a 210x50 is and that is what I actually suggested as an alternative to sourcing and installing a 2.5mm spacer.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GuitsBoy said:


> Thanks Dougal. I had already found the part from your site soon after asking here, but rolled the dice on the RS part first wince I could get the part overnight from amazon prime. I hope you dont take any offense. I'll probably be placing an order from you in the near future for the proper part, along with some seals and anything else I might need in the future, that way I have it on hand. Thanks.


No reason to take offense, happy you found it and the bits to keep you riding.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

PhillipJ said:


> No, but running a 210x50 is and that is what I actually suggested as an alternative to sourcing and installing a 2.5mm spacer.


If you really want to give it a name call it short stroking. If the eye to eye remains 210 then the static geometry of the bike doesn't change. By installing a spacer you are reducing stroke by limiting bottom out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Surfas (Sep 13, 2005)

Anybody try the McLeod on a Santa Cruz Nomad 3?
I have a DB air XS that need maintenance and I'm thinking send it to Tf Tuned or buy a McLeod and take out some weight, the original poor mid stroke support on Monarch Plus was the main reason that I put the DBair to keep my pedals from banging on rocks.

Some advise needed, thanks.


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## Setra (Aug 17, 2006)

I have a nomad 3 with a mcleod king can. ... and to resume my coil sock is just a litle better in the bike Park ...for the trail AM ride is the sock that i use, very good small bump and mid stroke suport.


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## Trailhwk17 (Jun 21, 2018)

*Experts - is a McLeod good for a 2.5:1 Progressive Lev Ratio Bike - '18 Trek Fuel EX?*

I found a suspension leverage curve posted for my 18 Trek Fuel EX showing ratio starting at 2.75 and going to 2.325 (avg. 2.51):

https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/search?q=Trek+Fuel

Fox Factory advised my Fox Float ReaKtiv shock tune currently on my bike is Compression = Med, Rebound = Med and a 2019 Fox Float DPX2 that a few have tried and say is a big improvement spec'd to the Fuel EX has a factory tune of: CM (compression medium), DRL (digressive rebound light), A (factory series open mode), F (firm), M+ (Medium Firm).

I weight 180 lbs. kitted up and am finding that the ReaKtiv is to soft at recommended pressure of 200 psi, makes a clunking sound most of the time at 215 psi (but feels better).

Will a McLeod (I'll have to wait for them to restock 210x55 and have someone install a 2.5mm spacer to get it to my stock stroke of 52.5) be a good improvement for me on this bike.

Thanks for the input for those with experience on McLeod capabilities since no one in this thread has tried it on this bike.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

yes, but i'd talk to them about possibly a firmer tune than the 2018 std tune.


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## thova (Aug 12, 2018)

Hello

I'm playing with the idea of buying a new bike. Process 153 SE size XL. 
I will swap fork, shock and brakes.

Can someone tell me what size mcleod would fit this frame. I have no Kona dealer near to ask and I don't find much info.

Thanks


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

thova said:


> Hello
> 
> I'm playing with the idea of buying a new bike. Process 153 SE size XL.
> I will swap fork, shock and brakes.
> ...


Should be 216x63


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

My McLeod seems a bit "sharp" on single hits, with IPA open. I'm running 125psi, and use ~90% travel on most rides, so the air pressure is in the ballpark, so is this likely the HSC tune causing some harshness?

Forgot to add, I'm using a King Can, at full volume I think (installed out of the box).


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## thova (Aug 12, 2018)

Just thinking if i should buy a king can from the start. When do you start to use the can?
Can i fit volume spacers in a standart McLeod?

thanks


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fsrxc said:


> My McLeod seems a bit "sharp" on single hits, with IPA open. I'm running 125psi, and use ~90% travel on most rides, so the air pressure is in the ballpark, so is this likely the HSC tune causing some harshness?
> 
> Forgot to add, I'm using a King Can, at full volume I think (installed out of the box).


How heavy are you and what sort of leverage ratio on the bike? Are they sharp mid-stroke hits or hard bottom-out?

Switching from 16mm to 15mm rebound shims opens up the flow to the compression shims. But this may leave you without enough high speed damping and make the problem worse.

Mullen has the details on changes to the rebound stack. I've been very happy with the 15mm flat stack I was running.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

Dougal said:


> How heavy are you and what sort of leverage ratio on the bike? Are they sharp mid-stroke hits or hard bottom-out?
> 
> Switching from 16mm to 15mm rebound shims opens up the flow to the compression shims. But this may leave you without enough high speed damping and make the problem worse.
> 
> Mullen has the details on changes to the rebound stack. I've been very happy with the 15mm flat stack I was running.


I'm ~160lb riding weight, and it's on a '15 Trance with ~2.75:1 leverage.
Sorry left out detail - the harshness is off the top to mid-stroke - even just rolling off a ~6" curb. On most rides it's using 80-90% travel and seldom, if ever hit bottom, so less high speed damping would probably make it better, not worse.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

fsrxc said:


> My McLeod seems a bit "sharp" on single hits, with IPA open. I'm running 125psi, and use ~90% travel on most rides, so the air pressure is in the ballpark, so is this likely the HSC tune causing some harshness?
> 
> Forgot to add, I'm using a King Can, at full volume I think (installed out of the box).


mine was on the 2016 tune. the 2018 tune fixed this.


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## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

I have a very progressive bike and thinking about the option to switch to the McLeod. At the moment I am clearly not satisfied with the Monarch+ in the bike (usage of travel, harsh, feels a little dead,...).
Bike is a Last Coal: Last Bikes Coal 27.5'' 2016 - Linkage Design

Has sombody idea if this shock would be a very good solution for this leverage ratio?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Lutsch said:


> I have a very progressive bike and thinking about the option to switch to the McLeod. At the moment I am clearly not satisfied with the Monarch+ in the bike (usage of travel, harsh, feels a little dead,...).
> Bike is a Last Coal: Last Bikes Coal 27.5'' 2016 - Linkage Design
> 
> Has sombody idea if this shock would be a very good solution for this leverage ratio?


It should match pretty well with the king can


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

After riding a Mcleod on both of my bikes for about 6 months, they both needed an air can reset. I realize it's a simple procedure but it seems likely that it's more an indication of air can seal wear...or maybe not.

Either way I wanted to do a little more than just a basic reset, without spending the $20 each on a complete air can seal kit. So I just bought the X-Rings I needed from the O-Ring Store for ~$0.40 each. Shipping isn't cheap ($6) so I bought spares for next time.

These shocks take a -122 and a -219 x-ring. I used 70 hardness Buna-N x-rings.









It probably wouldn't be hard to piece out a whole seal kit from the o-ring store for $4-5 but maybe next time.


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

*wear on damper body*

My 2 year old mcleod has developed pretty severe wear on the damper body just over the upper portion, i.e. above the natural sag position. All the anodization/coating has worn away. it still holds air though I seem to need to reset the negative air chamber more than I used to.

BTW, in contrast, I have a swinger3 on my old bike and it's run10 years of hard riding with no sign of wear at all

Anyone have advise on the following:
1) is this normal on the mcleod?
2) how much longer is the shock likely to last before it's unusable?
3) Can I buy just the damper body (and from who), or must i replace the entire shock?

Many thanks, Geoff


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

geoffpw said:


> My 2 year old mcleod has developed pretty severe wear on the damper body just over the upper portion, i.e. above the natural sag position. All the anodization/coating has worn away. it still holds air though I seem to need to reset the negative air chamber more than I used to.
> 
> BTW, in contrast, I have a swinger3 on my old bike and it's run10 years of hard riding with no sign of wear at all
> 
> ...


We've seen this in the pictures above. Are these basically self-destructing? I change the oil on my Monarch+ at least every season and it's been a little over 3 seasons (don't ride it in the winter).


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

geoffpw said:


> My 2 year old mcleod has developed pretty severe wear on the damper body just over the upper portion, i.e. above the natural sag position. All the anodization/coating has worn away. it still holds air though I seem to need to reset the negative air chamber more than I used to.
> 
> BTW, in contrast, I have a swinger3 on my old bike and it's run10 years of hard riding with no sign of wear at all
> 
> ...


1. No that's not normal. How many times did you clean and lube the air can in those 2 years?
2. Technically it's already unusable.
3. Damper bodies are available at a reasonable price, you'll need to replace the PTFE rings and seals in the air-can too. A full service kit will do that.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> We've seen this in the pictures above. Are these basically self-destructing? I change the oil on my Monarch+ at least every season and it's been a little over 3 seasons (don't ride it in the winter).


1. No.
2. That's quite the maintenance regime. Most shocks don't get oil changes until they get oil leaks. How often do you clean and relube the air-can?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> How often do you clean and relube the air-can?


About every 4 months or so.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

I have had my Mcleod for almost three years (in December). I reset and lube the air can every 6-8 months. My shocks is pretty much like new. I changed out the seals about 3 months ago as well.


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

Hi Dougal.

Thanks for the answer. 

I've cleaned and relubed the can seals 3 or 4 times over that 2 year period, and am pretty rigorous at cleaning down the shock after dusty or muddy ride.

It seems pretty poor that it's shot after this short life: I've plenty of other shocks that have done way more duty than this.

Anyway, where would I buy a damper body (i'm in the US with links in Europe) , and is it even worth doing since I can buy a replacement shock for US$190? (a full service kit is US$39 before i even buy the body)

Suggestion to Manitou: if you dropped the price of the services kits to a reasonable point, people would replace more often and your products would last longer and everyone would be happier  )

Thanks, geoff


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

geoffpw said:


> Hi Dougal.
> 
> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> ...


What's the shock size?


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

Dougal said:


> What's the shock size?


163x38 (on a tallboy 2, fwiw)


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

What should i use to clean seals, just remove the dirt or clean with isopropanol and regrease?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

geoffpw said:


> 163x38 (on a tallboy 2, fwiw)


I don't have any that size. But P/N is 142-31535-K011 for the 165x38mm damper body.

RRP is $US63 and literally any bike shop can order them in.

Air can seal/service kit is $US23. The important part (for any fork or shock regardless of brand) is to clean and lube when the stanchion loses it's oil sheen.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

geoffpw said:


> Hi Dougal.
> 
> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> ...


The air can service kit is $20 and takes at most 30 minutes. Unless your shaft was defective, this is a maintenance issue.


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

Thanks for the info., Dougal. I'll see if my LBS can order it


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

So, you'd clean more than 6 month intervals? Would you replace the seals this frequently too? How often? Once a month? Strip and clean after every ride?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

geoffpw said:


> So, you'd clean more than 6 month intervals? Would you replace the seals this frequently too? How often? Once a month? Strip and clean after every ride?


That depends on your conditions. If you were riding in muck and crap 5 times a week and the shock was covered in mud every ride, yes, every month or even every week. If you are riding normally, every 6-8 months is more than adequate in my mind. Like I said, unless your shaft was defective, this is a maintenance issue. Having significant wear like that in 2 years is not normal and not what I have experience in my now close to 2.75 years with this shock.

You serviced the air can 6 months ago, was it like this or did it all of the sudden go from perfect to worn in 6 months?


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

My wives had the same stanchion wear as you, where as mine has none. Service interval (reset neg. chamber, clean and grease the seals) is the same (about 6 months). The difference is she rides a lot more than me and in worse conditions. I think like Dougal says because she rides so much the grease will wear off the stanchion, then the seal will start to wear much faster, more grit gets inside and thus the stanchions will start to wear. I have since learned that for her probably the interval should be 2-3 months and for me the 6-8 months is fine.

I will have to replace hers with the same, because the shock works very well with the frame. Ah well lesson learned, no fault of the shock. I have no idea if a different seal design would make any difference.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Maybe I am overly anal retentive about cleaning and lubing my stanchions but pretty much do the same (fork/shock) at least once a week (or every handful of rides) unless I have done a ride that super dusty or muddy (much like @Dougal said). Cheap/free microfiber cloth from HF to wipe everything down after ride and if I think the stanchion or seal needs a little love, I throw some Slick Honey on a small acid wash brush and wipe around seal (after cleaning stanchion) and then actuate the suspension a few times to get her good and lubed. Usually will leave excess on there until I ride again (usually next day or two after). 

I have an OG McLeod (I started this thread) and have had ZERO issues with that kind of stuff.


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## Carloswithac (Feb 6, 2012)

Hi, all. I tried searching the thread, but it's not working on my phone for some reason. My question is, is there any way to make the Mcleod knob "clickier?"


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Carloswithac said:


> Hi, all. I tried searching the thread, but it's not working on my phone for some reason. My question is, is there any way to make the Mcleod knob "clickier?"


Turn clockwise the small screw on top of the shock, the vertical one.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

...


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## bmied31 (Oct 26, 2017)

Looking to upgrade the shock in my Diamondback Release from my Monarch R 200x57 L/L3 tune to something a little better. I don't often do long descents so thinking a non piggyback shock. I'd love to find a RT3 or a Fox shock but having a hard time finding a reasonable priced one with the right tune.

Everything I'm reading about the McLeod sounds pretty awesome and I can get a 200x56 one for around $235 from this site https://www.bike-components.de/en/Manitou/McLeod-Daempfer-p62670/

Anyone have any ideas how this shock will work with this frame. Anything else to know. I've never serviced suspension but from what I read it sounds easier then most.


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## bmied31 (Oct 26, 2017)

richard451 said:


> I'm following nubsters lead and getting a mcleod for my DBack R3 and I purchased the mcleod from ebay yesterday (using the 20% coupon) but I'm having a hard time finding a 200x56 king can to order. My lbs shop can order one, but they aren't sure when they can get it in. Any other suggestions?
> 
> I'm a heavier rider (290lbs) and from what I am reading the king can would be best for me.
> 
> Thanks


Hey Man, I just ordered one for my Release 1 to replace my Monarch R...I'm around 210 fully loaded. Hows this working out for you!?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

bmied31 said:


> Looking to upgrade the shock in my Diamondback Release from my Monarch R 200x57 L/L3 tune to something a little better. I don't often do long descents so thinking a non piggyback shock. I'd love to find a RT3 or a Fox shock but having a hard time finding a reasonable priced one with the right tune.
> 
> Everything I'm reading about the McLeod sounds pretty awesome and I can get a 200x56 one for around $235 from this site https://www.bike-components.de/en/Manitou/McLeod-Daempfer-p62670/
> 
> Anyone have any ideas how this shock will work with this frame. Anything else to know. I've never serviced suspension but from what I read it sounds easier then most.


The Release looks to go from a regressive rate early on and then a progressive rate to prevent bottom out - from the linkage design web site the ratio looks to go from 2.25 to 2.5 to 1.9. Not dramatic in either way but still there. I think a king can might work better and allow more travel to be used. My 5-spot goes from 3.5 to 2.65 and I found that a small can required too much initial pressure and did not allow full travel. I ended up settling on the king can with one band that was perfect.


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## geoffpw (Jun 10, 2006)

*New 2018 tune? Upgrade question*

Manitou are offering me a $200 new shock under their upgrade program, or a discounted new body to repair my 2016 unit. By the time I've bought a full seal kit and spent time rebuilding it, i wonder if i should just do the upgrade and junk the old shock.

So, the key question is how much better will the new shock with the revised tune be? I'm running a tallboy 2. Anyone have experience or technical insight?

One for Dougal or Mullen, i suspect!

Many thanks, Geoff


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

geoffpw said:


> Manitou are offering me a $200 new shock under their upgrade program, or a discounted new body to repair my 2016 unit. By the time I've bought a full seal kit and spent time rebuilding it, i wonder if i should just do the upgrade and junk the old shock.
> 
> So, the key question is how much better will the new shock with the revised tune be? I'm running a tallboy 2. Anyone have experience or technical insight?
> 
> ...


$200 for a new shock with more trail-oriented tune - well worth it. new tune is great. adjustment knob is a little tighter as well.


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## Duner151 (Oct 14, 2016)

I just put a new 200x50 McLeod on my niner rip9. Took it out for the first ride and set the pressure to 115 psi. I’m about 180 geared up. Started riding and it felt good but went downhill fast. Started to feel like a spring board. Stopped and checked the pressure and it was up to 150 psi 🤔. The rest of the ride just got worse. It started to feel like it bottomed out and the shock wouldn’t return to fully extended. Anyone got any ideas?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Duner151 said:


> I just put a new 200x50 McLeod on my niner rip9. Took it out for the first ride and set the pressure to 115 psi. I'm about 180 geared up. Started riding and it felt good but went downhill fast. Started to feel like a spring board. Stopped and checked the pressure and it was up to 150 psi ?. The rest of the ride just got worse. It started to feel like it bottomed out and the shock wouldn't return to fully extended. Anyone got any ideas?


Is the shock stuck down?


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## Duner151 (Oct 14, 2016)

It was stuck at about 3/4 of the length during the ride. I was riding at an elevation of around 8000 ft. When I got home where the elevation is around 1200 ft it had gone back to fully extended and actually felt like it did when I first started.


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## maclgallant (Feb 11, 2006)

Hey Guy's first off i'm a Clyde 250-260lbs (riding weight 270-280)
Bike 2015 Trance with a 2.745 leverage ratio. Fox Float CTD EVO shock (i know i know lol)

i'm debating between the Mcleod or a fox DPX2.

how would these compare?


i'm looking for the most progressive shock with the best small bump compliance

i currently have the largest spacer in my Float CTD EVO and only have to run around 250psi vs in stock form (second smallest spacer) 290 psi.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

maclgallant said:


> Hey Guy's first off i'm a Clyde 250-260lbs (riding weight 270-280)
> Bike 2015 Trance with a 2.745 leverage ratio. Fox Float CTD EVO shock (i know i know lol)
> 
> i'm debating between the Mcleod or a fox DPX2.
> ...


In case it helps, I'm also on a 2015 Trance, but I'm ~160lb, and the Mcleod with standard air can was way too progressive for me (using ~120psi), currently running King Can, so the McLeod standard air can may work for you on this bike.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Dougal said:


> I don't have any that size. But P/N is 142-31535-K011 for the 165x38mm damper body.
> 
> RRP is $US63 and literally any bike shop can order them in.
> 
> Air can seal/service kit is $US23. The important part (for any fork or shock regardless of brand) is to clean and lube when the stanchion loses it's oil sheen.


Hi Dougal, do you know if Manitou is working on a new shock???


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Anyone running a McLeod on a modified single pivot like a Yeti ASRC, Orbea Oiz, Cannondale Scalpel, etc.? 

Looking for a potential replacement for my Fox Factory DPS. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Anyone running a McLeod on a modified single pivot like a Yeti ASRC, Orbea Oiz, Cannondale Scalpel, etc.?
> 
> Looking for a potential replacement for my Fox Factory DPS.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I guy here runs one on his Cannondale - I think he was one of the first guys as well and was a big fan.


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## Klaster_1 (Jan 7, 2018)

Le Duke said:


> Anyone running a McLeod on a modified single pivot like a Yeti ASRC, Orbea Oiz, Cannondale Scalpel, etc.?


@olao runs his M06 with a 165x38 McLeod. I'd also like to hear some feedback from him.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

https://manitoumtb.com/product/mcleod/

Looks like the McLeod has a new look, wonder if any other updates,


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

... it seems that they renew their website.
... but you're right it's a new version without standard eyelet.
... on the old website I found the new 'metric' versions but no manuals or further information.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I have had one on my Prophet for years. Love it.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Prophet Julio said:


> I have had one on my Prophet for years. Love it.


I can't believe I forgot that it was you (who ran it on a Cannondale). I mean with a name like that, I should have known it was a cannonade!


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

How often does everyone replace the seals on the air can? How often should you do a full rebuild?


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

nashwillis said:


> How often does everyone replace the seals on the air can? How often should you do a full rebuild?


... I think that will nobody tell you 
... it belongs in what conditions you drive with your bike 
... I think if you doesn´t loose pressure you don´t have to change the sealings.
... cleaning the sealings and the right lubrication are sure the best advice ;-)


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Does the 200x51 have a spacer you can remove to make it 200x57? If so is there a pic of the spacer and do you just have to remove the air can?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

nashwillis said:


> How often does everyone replace the seals on the air can? How often should you do a full rebuild?


I did mine after about 15 months of riding. Honestly, I should have done it earlier. I found I was having to reset my air can every 3 months. I have not done a full rebuild yet but may buy a spare shock to practice on.


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

nashwillis said:


> Does the 200x51 have a spacer you can remove to make it 200x57? If so is there a pic of the spacer and do you just have to remove the air can?


... these are different dampers - sorry you can't convert the 51-er to the 57-er.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Vespasianus said:


> I did mine after about 15 months of riding. Honestly, I should have done it earlier. I found I was having to reset my air can every 3 months. I have not done a full rebuild yet but may buy a spare shock to practice on.


I was probably the worst. I started this thread and put probably about 1000+ miles a year on the shock before I did the air can rebuild this spring. That was really only because I personally was thinking to myself "hell I probably should replace those seals".
So I ran mine from close to 2 1/2yrs without replacing seals with LOTS of miles on them. Best bet would be to talk with manitou and see what their "recommended" interval is.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

nashwillis said:


> https://manitoumtb.com/product/mcleod/
> 
> Looks like the McLeod has a new look, wonder if any other updates,


Ooh and did you notice that they no longer tie the travel numbers to a specific fork/wheel size!!! So the "160mm" version (adjustable between 140-170mm) is not specifically for the 27.5 version like I believe the old site used to say! Hopefully that means that the update "long travel 29er" version will be that one!


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Cant say whats changed on the inside, but the image shows a trunnion mount shock which is new AFAIK.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nashwillis said:


> Does the 200x51 have a spacer you can remove to make it 200x57? If so is there a pic of the spacer and do you just have to remove the air can?


You can put a spacer into the 57mm to reduce stroke to 51mm. But you cannot go the other way.

Personally I would check if your frame has clearance to run to 57mm compression without anything hitting. If it does then just run that.



nashwillis said:


> https://manitoumtb.com/product/mcleod/
> 
> Looks like the McLeod has a new look, wonder if any other updates,


Stealth graphics. Like the forks so it'll match the murdered out look that's popular these days.

Metric eyelet to eyelet is available to order but not yet shipping. Metric trunnion aren't available to order yet. But they're coming.


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

@Dougal
... are there improvement belonging to the negative chamber ?
... perhaps with a more functional 'King Can' - I think I read something about that.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Steinello said:


> @Dougal
> ... are there improvement belonging to the negative chamber ?
> ... perhaps with a more functional 'King Can' - I think I read something about that.


I don't yet know.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Had a mcleod/mattoc setup on my norco sight, recently bought a HD4 with a DPX2/36 RC2 and after fiddling a bunch with it, decided im going go back to full manitou setup haha. Think I would have had to spend 400+ on 36 (luftakpette and grip 2 damper) to get it as supportive as the mattoc felt for hard riding. Will say the 36 is super buttery/frictionless, more so than the mattoc but would rather get the support when charging, really missed the HBO and the high speed rebound tune seems way better on mattoc. Same story with DPX2, not enough compression dampening and HSR is way to slow.

Any suggestions on where to get McLeod from for newest tune/best price?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Craig at treefort bikes can help you source one from manitou.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

croakies said:


> Had a mcleod/mattoc setup on my norco sight, recently bought a HD4 with a DPX2/36 RC2 and after fiddling a bunch with it, decided im going go back to full manitou setup haha. Think I would have had to spend 400+ on 36 (luftakpette and grip 2 damper) to get it as supportive as the mattoc felt for hard riding. Will say the 36 is super buttery/frictionless, more so than the mattoc but would rather get the support when charging, really missed the HBO and the high speed rebound tune seems way better on mattoc. Same story with DPX2, not enough compression dampening and HSR is way to slow.
> 
> Any suggestions on where to get McLeod from for newest tune/best price?


If you are in the USA, Dirt Merchant on these boards can help you out. Competitive prices.


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

I just ordered a 190 x 51mm Mcleod for my 120mm travel horst linked 29er frame

Brand-X FS-01 29" Alloy Suspension MTB Frame was sold for £400! (15", 17", Black, 29",)

might somebody give me some recommendation for PSI settings?

I am about 190lbs + kitted out

it will be replacing a Monarch RL-- which is okay, thought a bit spiky, and I would like to have platform


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

locominute said:


> I just ordered a 190 x 51mm Mcleod for my 120mm travel horst linked 29er frame
> 
> Brand-X FS-01 29" Alloy Suspension MTB Frame was sold for £400! (15", 17", Black, 29",)
> 
> ...


I am about your weight and believe I run at about 120psi, same shock length but my travel is 130mm rear. Mine stays in second to last setting from full open (aggressive trail??) 99% of the time and never have any issues with pedal bob whether out of the saddle or seated. Similar type of horst-link suspension as well.


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## Karlewski (Dec 3, 2016)

I’ve had two different monarchs on two different bikes fail, seize or loose copious air pressure when ridden hard in below freezing weather and both required rebuilds. I’m starting to think air springs and their seals may not be able to handle harsher winter conditions very well. Has anyone had much time on the Mcleod in sub-freezing weather? Is there really anything to fear in general due to cold on an air spring shock or did I just have 2x bad luck? Started considering a coil even. 
After reading this thread and checking out all the reviews I’d love to try a Mcleod. Any insight appreciated.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Best bet is to contact Manitou and ask them. I would assume that all these items have specific applications and temperature ranges they "should" be working in. My gut tells me from experience that as things get colder my suspension likes to "groan" more about it. Thus, I would really hesitate at riding in sub-freezing temps.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Ive ridden a couple of times in 20 degree weather and dont remember anything particularly bad happening, but I do agree that suspension always seems to have more difficulty in colder weather. I only rode my FS bike maybe 30 miles or so in the cold last year. Usually at that temp there's snow on the ground, and I opt for the rigid fatty instead.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Sub freezing temps are fine on the McLeod. It will feel a little stiffer, but you won't hurt it and it shouldn't leak. The colder the temps, the more likely an issue will pop up. As of now, I know quite a few people who ride down to about 10F and have not had issues.

I personally won't go out if it's below 20


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

thanks!
btw was 120psi about the same as when you had the Fox CTD shock?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

locominute said:


> thanks!
> btw was 120psi about the same as when you had the Fox CTD shock?


If you are asking me, then no. The FOX CTD was all over the place depending on temp. But I consistently had it up around 150psi+ to get the same amount of sag and suppleness out of it as the McLeod. Definitely a different caliber of shock.


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

... same here:
- McLeod (with King Can): 8.5 bar (125 PSI) 
versa 
- FOX CTD: 11 bar (160 PSI)

... after the 'HighLander'-Tuning for my McLeod I need 13 bar (190 PSI),
that's because of the greater negative chamber.

my bike: CUBE AMS 120 29-er


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

thanks that helps--


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Vespasianus said:


> If you are in the USA, Dirt Merchant on these boards can help you out. Competitive prices.


Ended up ordering through dir merchant. Good price and service. Thanks for the recommendation .

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Anyone running one of these on a Santa Cruz TBLT? My Rockshox Monarch + RC3 died and since the bike is my back up I’m considering affordable options. I still have the factory Fox CTD so I may just live with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Structure said:


> Anyone running one of these on a Santa Cruz TBLT? My Rockshox Monarch + RC3 died and since the bike is my back up I'm considering affordable options. I still have the factory Fox CTD so I may just live with that.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No direct experience with your specific bike, but have experience with both on other bikes and through friends. They tend to compare pretty evenly generally speaking. That says a lot for the McLeod since it's a inline design.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Structure said:


> Anyone running one of these on a Santa Cruz TBLT? My Rockshox Monarch + RC3 died and since the bike is my back up I'm considering affordable options. I still have the factory Fox CTD so I may just live with that.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes! I'm running a 200×56 with the King Can set to 1/2 extra volume. It is way better than the original Fox.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Vespasianus said:


> If you are in the USA, Dirt Merchant on these boards can help you out. Competitive prices.


Hi,

Buy it on a cheap German internet shop and send it to the user symion from German forum MTb news. 
For around 100 Euro he will make an self equalizing airspring, with large negative chamber, this uses half of the part of the outer can for that. Besides shimming for your bike and weight. Than this shock will be even more better than the dpx 2 and at least as good as the dvo Topaz. I had both shocks and the mcleod with symion highlander tuning is here to stay


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## ideal world (Jul 23, 2011)

iam selling a 2017 mcleoud 216x63 mm in UK. used, serviced and in good conditions.


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

lbs just installed the shock =--cannot wait to try it out.


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## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Steinello said:


> ... same here:
> - McLeod (with King Can): 8.5 bar (125 PSI)
> versa
> - FOX CTD: 11 bar (160 PSI)
> ...


Highlander tuning? what is that? advantages? disadvantages?
does the shock very different ?


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

In the german ´mtb-news.de´ forum you should search for posts of the user ´symion´. The original King Can has only the effect to increase the size of the positive chamber. The Symion-Tuning uses the half size of the King Can to increase the negative Chamber. Symion modifiy the Shim Stack for the individual bike geometry and your ´fight weight´ ;-)
... another effect of the tuning is that there is automatic pressure balance and you don´t need doing a reset of the negative chamber (a little problem of the McLeod).
... you also find information about this tuning in this post here.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Steinello said:


> In the german ´mtb-news.de´ forum you should search for posts of the user ´symion´. The original King Can has only the effect to increase the size of the positive chamber. The Symion-Tuning uses the half size of the King Can to increase the negative Chamber. Symion modifiy the Shim Stack for the individual bike geometry and your ´fight weight´ ;-)
> ... another effect of the tuning is that there is automatic pressure balance and you don´t need doing a reset of the negative chamber (a little problem of the McLeod).
> ... you also find information about this tuning in this post here.


I did the same thing over a year ago.

I really liked the bump absorption. But my frame really hated the resulting geometry. It made climbing a real pain.
It's the same problem RS Monarch debonair shocks have with forced sag and a dead spot where the equalisation happens.

I still have all the tooling. I can dimple air-cans to provide self balancing negative as well as using the extra negative of king cans.


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

Sorry, but I´m really not a ´hardcore´ driver ;-)
There are other bikers who have more experience and drive for competition.
I replaced my Fox Float CTD Performance damper with the McLeod.
My intention was to buy a cheap spare-damper for use when my Fox is at Service.
... but in my case the McLeod remains my main damper.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Your lever screw has backed out. The lever should sit a bit below horizontal.
> The screw takes a 1.5mm allen key and is on the shock head opposite side to the IPA knob lever.
> As you screw it in you'll see it push on the knob stop internally and rotate the knob clockwise. Screw it in until it rests in the first indent which has the lever a bit below horizontal.
> 
> Then check your knocking again. Should be gone. That screw can take some mild loctite to stop it moving.


I just tried to fix this. I turned the screw all the way in didn't move the lever.. if I cranked it down any harder lever got too stiff to move. I have what feels like initial play or "knock" any advice


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> I just tried to fix this. I turned the screw all the way in didn't move the lever.. if I cranked it down any harder lever got too stiff to move. I have what feels like initial play or "knock" any advice


Wrong screw. Sounds like you were cranking on the screw on top that preloads the detent ball.
It's the one in the side that changes the lever stop.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Wrong screw. Sounds like you were cranking on the screw on top that preloads the detent ball.
> It's the one in the side that changes the lever stop.


Oh sh$&t! Thank you I was using wrong screw. Cheers


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

seamarsh said:


> Oh sh$&t! Thank you I was using wrong screw. Cheers


Just to clarify for anyone else.. its the grub screw right under the shader valve, mine was so loose it was about to fall out.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Getting some rides on mine now and am very happy. My other bike is running a Push 11-6 and the Manitou does not suck when switching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

bansaiman said:


> Hi,
> 
> Buy it on a cheap German internet shop and send it to the user symion from German forum MTb news.
> For around 100 Euro he will make an self equalizing airspring, with large negative chamber, this uses half of the part of the outer can for that. Besides shimming for your bike and weight. Than this shock will be even more better than the dpx 2 and at least as good as the dvo Topaz. I had both shocks and the mcleod with symion highlander tuning is here to stay


Well, I must have missed this. Sounds very interesting!


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I would not want to dimple a McLeod can. I hate the damned debonair can!

Not having it is a benefit, not a downside


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> I would not want to dimple a McLeod can. I hate the damned debonair can!
> 
> Not having it is a benefit, not a downside


Agreed


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

One Pivot said:


> I would not want to dimple a McLeod can. I hate the damned debonair can!
> 
> Not having it is a benefit, not a downside


If correctly executed you can NOT compare that with a debonair canwhor rode a dvo Topaz can get that. This shock has much better midszroke support than all shocks I had ridden, incl.x2,marzoccji 053.but that mcleod with modified kingcan is as good, but lighter and cheaper than the Topaz and tuned for your bike and weight by symion


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Wrong screw. Sounds like you were cranking on the screw on top that preloads the detent ball.
> It's the one in the side that changes the lever stop.


Knocking , while better is still present after adjusting the screw? anything else this can be?

thanks


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> Knocking , while better is still present after adjusting the screw? anything else this can be?
> 
> thanks


Bump up the IPA lever to see at what stage the knocking goes away. The adjustment to fix it is the locknut under the shaft head to let you rotate the shaft head on the shaft.

IPA has about 0.3mm total throw, the shaft head is on 1mm pitch thread. So 0.3 of a turn gives you the same effect as total throw on the IPA lever.

Most shocks I find about 30 degrees (1/12th of a turn of the shaft head) is about 0.08mm and is enough to fix it.
Go too far and you crush the shims and run out of IPA stroke.
Not enough and the shims can float and knock.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Bump up the IPA lever to see at what stage the knocking goes away. The adjustment to fix it is the locknut under the shaft head to let you rotate the shaft head on the shaft.
> 
> IPA has about 0.3mm total throw, the shaft head is on 1mm pitch thread. So 0.3 of a turn gives you the same effect as total throw on the IPA lever.
> 
> ...


OK thanks, what tool do you use to loosen that nut? its recessed below the lip the air can screws to, assuming that is the one you are talking about?

its it this one https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/manitou-mcleod-full-tool-set/rp-prod146380

Part #: 172-31989-K001


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> OK thanks, what tool do you use to loosen that nut? its recessed below the lip the air can screws to, assuming that is the one you are talking about?
> 
> its it this one https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/manitou-mcleod-full-tool-set/rp-prod146380
> 
> Part #: 172-31989-K001


That kit does have a special tool, but I use a normal spanner and it works fine. It's not a high torque thing.

You need to hold the shaft in a clamp so you don't lose place while you loosen the nut and rotate the head.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> That kit does have a special tool, but I use a normal spanner and it works fine. It's not a high torque thing.
> 
> You need to hold the shaft in a clamp so you don't lose place while you loosen the nut and rotate the head.


thanks ill give that a shot this weekend


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

seamarsh said:


> thanks ill give that a shot this weekend


So tried all of the suggestions. Still knocking also eyelets seem to be out of spec, too large, new bushings have play.

Contacted manitou.. no reply.

Ever see any of these with out of spec eyelets?

To make it worse can't seem to get it back where it was.. it's actually worse than when I started.

Oh well


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

seamarsh said:


> So tried all of the suggestions. Still knocking also eyelets seem to be out of spec, too large, new bushings have play.
> 
> Contacted manitou.. no reply.
> 
> ...


Manitou eyelets are designed to work with Manitou hardware. In my experience, other brands tend to fit on the loose side and can even have enough play to create a knock. If you are not using Manitou hardware, I would suggest trying some.

If that doesn't work, it may need a full rebuild to address a internal issue. 90% of the suggested fixes you have tried work, but there is always a possibility of it being something else.

Quiet a few people are taking time off for the holidays and using up vacation time. I would send another email and if you don't get a response in a few business days, send me a PM.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> Manitou eyelets are designed to work with Manitou hardware. In my experience, other brands tend to fit on the loose side and can even have enough play to create a knock. If you are not using Manitou hardware, I would suggest trying some.
> 
> If that doesn't work, it may need a full rebuild to address a internal issue. 90% of the suggested fixes you have tried work, but there is always a possibility of it being something else.
> 
> Quiet a few people are taking time off for the holidays and using up vacation time. I would send another email and if you don't get a response in a few business days, send me a PM.


Thanks for reply. Never heard anywhere that I had to use manitou hardware. I've been through 3 set ups all of them loose.

Can't find the kit you speak of anywhere online. 2 Piece 12.7 x 21.8 mm M8 Shock Mounting Hardware (Manitou)

It's always had the pivot knock, hence me on my third set to of different bushings.. first Rwc needle bearing, then standard rockshox, then fox polymer.. all have play.

Knocking has always been there as well.. but seems worse.

About to throw this thing off a cliff!! ?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

seamarsh said:


> Thanks for reply. Never heard anywhere that I had to use manitou hardware. I've been through 3 set ups all of them loose.
> 
> Can't find the kit you speak of anywhere online. 2 Piece 12.7 x 21.8 mm M8 Shock Mounting Hardware (Manitou)
> 
> ...


In some cases, other hardware can work. Manitou hardware is designed to work with their eyelets and DU bushings. It's the best fit and I have yet to come across one that knocks. I have had all kinds of issues with other hardware, ranging from to tight to falls out.

This is the hardware for MY2011 and New shocks, all in stock.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=72576

Your other knock can be various things. Usually it's the 10mm shim stack being to loose like dougal suggested, but it can also be a few other things, though they are very rare. Email techsupport again if hardware doesn't solve it


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> In some cases, other hardware can work. Manitou hardware is designed to work with their eyelets and DU bushings. It's the best fit and I have yet to come across one that knocks. I have had all kinds of issues with other hardware, ranging from to tight to falls out.
> 
> This is the hardware for MY2011 and New shocks, all in stock.
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=72576
> ...


Thanks, appreciate the help..wish I would have known this earlier!lol

do I need it for both ends? It actually arrived in box with standard bushing in top eyelet.

also link you sent says 15mm, thought it was 12.7?

Appreciate the insight!


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

seamarsh said:


> Thanks, appreciate the help..wish I would have known this earlier!lol
> 
> do I need it for both ends? It actually arrived in box with standard bushing in top eyelet.
> 
> ...


well i ordered the 15mm.. hopefully this solves the problem.. I emailed and called manitou.. no reply.. first email was 10 days ago.. second was 3 days ago.. no one answered the phone..

Strange that no one else on here has posted about loose bushings? maybe its the suspension layout on the SC Hightower that makes a bigger issue?

anyway, thanks for the help and hopefully this post helps someone else in similar situation.

for time being ill go back to running my rockshox rt.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

seamarsh said:


> well i ordered the 15mm.. hopefully this solves the problem.. I emailed and called manitou.. no reply.. first email was 10 days ago.. second was 3 days ago.. no one answered the phone..
> 
> Strange that no one else on here has posted about loose bushings? maybe its the suspension layout on the SC Hightower that makes a bigger issue?
> 
> ...


15mm is correct, that's the eyelet size with no bushing installed.

Send me a PM with your email address


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> 15mm is correct, that's the eyelet size with no bushing installed.
> 
> Send me a PM with your email address


Sent email, thank you again.. that makes sense about the size minus bushing.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Before a Clyde pulls the trigger, is this shock good for a vpp intense? I’m on the fence rt3 RockShox is on the list.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

I can't seem to dial in the shock but that's a reflection of me, not the shock. I just can't get the nuance down and then, what I do with that info. I was running a pretty low pressure before, just going off of the "frequency" test. But then again, I couldn't tell which frequency was good (is there a video out there we can use as a benchmark?).

Anyway, Bronson v1, Mattoc Pro 2 up front, Mcleod back. I'm 140lb out of the shower, 3-5 lbs with gear on I'd assume.

I was getting a ton of pedal strikes, it felt a little wallowy. So I upped the pressure to 49psi which put me around 26% sag or so (I just measure sag as an indicator). I was at 45% sag before.

I took to the trail and tested it with various rebound levels. For anyone in San Diego it's primarily Black Mountain/miners loops. 


When riding over small rollers, climbing or slowly descending, I would get get a delayed buck off the seat. Like the rear wheel will compress, I will get halfway up (not over it) and then get bucked. High speed berms felt great. Medium sized drops felt great (the fork worked great, huge confidence booster off the drop, and no bucking from the rear). 

High speed chatter I'm getting a pogo'ing from the rear. Low speed over basically a hill with fixed and loose rocks (sharp head sized rocks fixed in the ground, tons of fist sized round rocks that are loose) the entire way also felt kinda good.

But it's the bucking/pogo'ing that I want to fix, but I can't tell if it's air pressure or rebound? I played with both and couldn't discern the affect. It really affects me when you descend from the top on a bumpy fire road, high speed, to get to the loop. I try to ride in a loose athletic position but it didn't help a lot.

I think I'm going to bump the pressure down a notch, try it at 29-30%. Any less pressure and I will probably get the pedal strikes again. No strikes at 26% though. I tried almost closed rebound damping (slow) to fast and I couldn't tune out the harshness over chunk. Like a jack hammer back there.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Dirt Road said:


> Before a Clyde pulls the trigger, is this shock good for a vpp intense? I'm on the fence rt3 RockShox is on the list.


absolutely. intense primer here.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

jdang307 said:


> I can't seem to dial in the shock but that's a reflection of me, not the shock. I just can't get the nuance down and then, what I do with that info. I was running a pretty low pressure before, just going off of the "frequency" test. But then again, I couldn't tell which frequency was good (is there a video out there we can use as a benchmark?).
> 
> Anyway, Bronson v1, Mattoc Pro 2 up front, Mcleod back. I'm 140lb out of the shower, 3-5 lbs with gear on I'd assume.
> 
> ...


at your weight, you need the latest tune IMHO - have manitou run your serial number to see if you could benefit.

also, the rebound circuit on mine affects compression damping when close to closed. i.e. when rebound is set slow, it will cause the bump action to be harsher as well. keep it on the open side; especially at your weight where you're not running much pressure.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Try more pressure. The frequency tests are self-selecting. Too firm will be too harsh and jiggly, too soft is too slow and wallowy. When it feels right, it is right.

Then it's front/rear balance tweaking.

I think you're so soft and slow that it's compressing too far on a bump and kicking back at a frequency so slow and late it's upsetting stability.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

FactoryMatt said:


> at your weight, you need the latest tune IMHO - have manitou run your serial number to see if you could benefit.
> 
> also, the rebound circuit on mine affects compression damping when close to closed. i.e. when rebound is set slow, it will cause the bump action to be harsher as well. keep it on the open side; especially at your weight where you're not running much pressure.


I think I had the second to latest tune, unless another tune just came out? I'll reach out to them.



Dougal said:


> Try more pressure. The frequency tests are self-selecting. Too firm will be too harsh and jiggly, too soft is too slow and wallowy. When it feels right, it is right.
> 
> Then it's front/rear balance tweaking.
> 
> I think you're so soft and slow that it's compressing too far on a bump and kicking back at a frequency so slow and late it's upsetting stability.


I forgot to add, I only used 70% or so of my travel, front and back. My next step was to try and use less. But I see what you're saying. Let's say I need to use less pressure, and I'm sitting too high, not using enough travel. I would reduce volume?

Going to bracket on the street, set it really high, then really low. I would have the other night but it was 1 am and hard to see, plus a pack of coyotes were seen earlier that day around my area so I didn't want to look like a chicken leg to them.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> I can't seem to dial in the shock but that's a reflection of me, not the shock. I just can't get the nuance down and then, what I do with that info. I was running a pretty low pressure before, just going off of the "frequency" test. But then again, I couldn't tell which frequency was good (is there a video out there we can use as a benchmark?).
> 
> Anyway, Bronson v1, Mattoc Pro 2 up front, Mcleod back. I'm 140lb out of the shower, 3-5 lbs with gear on I'd assume.
> 
> ...


49lbs in rear shock? I'm 160+ and run 120lbs in mine.. 49 seems impossibly low.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

seamarsh said:


> 49lbs in rear shock? I'm 160+ and run 120lbs in mine.. 49 seems impossibly low.


Oops. I mean 89. 49 is the fork.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jdang307 said:


> I think I had the second to latest tune, unless another tune just came out? I'll reach out to them.
> 
> I forgot to add, I only used 70% or so of my travel, front and back. My next step was to try and use less. But I see what you're saying. Let's say I need to use less pressure, and I'm sitting too high, not using enough travel. I would reduce volume?
> 
> Going to bracket on the street, set it really high, then really low. I would have the other night but it was 1 am and hard to see, plus a pack of coyotes were seen earlier that day around my area so I didn't want to look like a chicken leg to them.


You need a king can.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> I think I had the second to latest tune, unless another tune just came out? I'll reach out to them.
> 
> I forgot to add, I only used 70% or so of my travel, front and back. My next step was to try and use less. But I see what you're saying. Let's say I need to use less pressure, and I'm sitting too high, not using enough travel. I would reduce volume?
> 
> Going to bracket on the street, set it really high, then really low. I would have the other night but it was 1 am and hard to see, plus a pack of coyotes were seen earlier that day around my area so I didn't want to look like a chicken leg to them.


 VPP bikes like your Bronson are sensitive to sag numbers. While sag itself is a meaningless number in the bicycle industry, it does matter to a certain extent on VPP bikes. You will likely want to drop a few psi, aiming for 30%ish. That is around were VPP bikes like to sit.

One thing to note is that it takes around 100psi to fully extend a McLeod (this varies depending on shock size, but it's a pretty accurate number in general). You might be 1-2 mm from full extension at 85ish psi, keep that in mind when calculating your sag number.

As for the kick/pogo you are feeling, I would slow your rebound down a little bit. A 1/16th of a turn can make a big difference, so no need to make a big change. Rebound settings are directly related to spring pressure, so as you add spring, you need to add rebound damping to compensate for the extra force the spring has trying to extend the shock. Same thing if you lower pressures / spring rate, you will have to lower your rebound damping


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

FactoryMatt said:


> also, the rebound circuit on mine affects compression damping when close to closed. i.e. when rebound is set slow, it will cause the bump action to be harsher as well. keep it on the open side; especially at your weight where you're not running much pressure.


There is no flow path for oil to back flow through the rebound circuits on the McLeod (unless something is broken)

What you are likely feeling is the shock not extending fast enough to be ready for the next hit (packing up), making it feel harsh.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Dougal said:


> You need a king can.


I was also thinking that.



mullen119 said:


> VPP bikes like your Bronson are sensitive to sag numbers. While sag itself is a meaningless number in the bicycle industry, it does matter to a certain extent on VPP bikes. You will likely want to drop a few psi, aiming for 30%ish. That is around were VPP bikes like to sit.
> 
> One thing to note is that it takes around 100psi to fully extend a McLeod (this varies depending on shock size, but it's a pretty accurate number in general). You might be 1-2 mm from full extension at 85ish psi, keep that in mind when calculating your sag number.
> 
> As for the kick/pogo you are feeling, I would slow your rebound down a little bit. A 1/16th of a turn can make a big difference, so no need to make a big change. Rebound settings are directly related to spring pressure, so as you add spring, you need to add rebound damping to compensate for the extra force the spring has trying to extend the shock. Same thing if you lower pressures / spring rate, you will have to lower your rebound damping


Got it! I know "sag" isn't what we should base it off of, but I also do know VPP is sensitive to it. So it'll be a mix of adjusting volume/pressure to get the frequency and VPP to play nice together ... Next I may need to dry the blowdryer/freezer trick


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## Five0 (Mar 26, 2018)

Can anyone comment on how the McLeod gets along with Niner’s CVA suspension? Looking for other options otjer then the Fox DPS EVOL


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Did the shim stack tuning guide ever come out? Waiting on that then going to buy the IFP tool


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> Did the shim stack tuning guide ever come out? Waiting on that then going to buy the IFP tool


The guide has been on the back burner because of some larger projects that are taking precedent over it. I have a 1st draft somewhere on my computer and just got premission to share it publicly. I'm off work the rest of the year and will try to throw together a new thread on McLeod tuning in the coming weeks.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Dougal said:


> You need a king can.





mullen119 said:


> The guide has been on the back burner because of some larger projects that are taking precedent over it. I have a 1st draft somewhere on my computer and just got premission to share it publicly. I'm off work the rest of the year and will try to throw together a new thread on McLeod tuning in the coming weeks.


Can't wait! Maybe I don't need it once I get this tuned up. Spoke to Manitou and they said perhaps I'm in line for a king can, but for now I'll keep tweaking this.

Kind of figured out the difference between too stiff of a shock vs. pogoing (pressure vs rebound damping). Definitely a bit too much pressure today. Am going to lower it. Also only used about 70% of my travel again, while feeling stiff.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Dougal said:


> You need a king can.


Asked this in the RWC bearing thread, but hoping for a quick answer. Mcleod on a Bronson v1, when I installed the shock it was on Rockshox mounting hardware. Replacing all my bearings, etc. so decided to go with the needle bearings on the rear mount.

Removed the black mounting hardware from Rockshox, but am left with a metal inner ring still, with what looks like an orange film on it. Is this part of the shock and not to be removed? I'm assuming so, but want to be 100% sure.

Yes I know I can just see if the bearings fit but it's very thin so I want to be sure.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

jdang307 said:


> Asked this in the RWC bearing thread, but hoping for a quick answer. Mcleod on a Bronson v1, when I installed the shock it was on Rockshox mounting hardware. Replacing all my bearings, etc. so decided to go with the needle bearings on the rear mount.
> 
> Removed the black mounting hardware from Rockshox, but am left with a metal inner ring still, with what looks like an orange film on it. Is this part of the shock and not to be removed? I'm assuming so, but want to be 100% sure.
> 
> ...


That's the bushing, you need to remove it and replace it with needle bearing.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Ahhh gotcha. i figured as much. So now I need to find the perfect socket ...


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> Can't wait! Maybe I don't need it once I get this tuned up. Spoke to Manitou and they said perhaps I'm in line for a king can, but for now I'll keep tweaking this.
> 
> Kind of figured out the difference between too stiff of a shock vs. pogoing (pressure vs rebound damping). Definitely a bit too much pressure today. Am going to lower it. Also only used about 70% of my travel again, while feeling stiff.


It's going to take me a little while to get the info put together. I can't find the file and the newer versions are a little messy. I'll work on it though and put it together as soon as I can


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> Asked this in the RWC bearing thread, but hoping for a quick answer. Mcleod on a Bronson v1, when I installed the shock it was on Rockshox mounting hardware. Replacing all my bearings, etc. so decided to go with the needle bearings on the rear mount.
> 
> Removed the black mounting hardware from Rockshox, but am left with a metal inner ring still, with what looks like an orange film on it. Is this part of the shock and not to be removed? I'm assuming so, but want to be 100% sure.
> 
> ...


Just FYI, I tried 2 different Rwc bearings and the were to loose to run. Apparently McLeod has slightly larger eyelet diameter.

The Rwc bearing I could push in almost by hand.. had to use bearing tool for last bit.. same bearing on a monarch rt has much much tighter fit.

Right now waiting on manitou specific bushings hoping to solve this issue.

Idk.. maybe it's just my shock? But I got Rwc, Fox polymer and standard du bushings here and none of them fit correctly.

Btw rwc makes great little
Tool for du bushing removal.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

So shock hardware is a nightmare of parts not fitting and every brand drilling a slightly different size (tolerance) hole.

Some brands even end up with different tolerance holes on each end from poor quality control.

There's a window of 0.02mm (+/-0.01mm) between knocking and binding.

If you run Manitou hardware in a McLeod you'll be good. It's the right diameters and it works.
If you run RS or Fox hardware in a McLeod then you've got a ~80% chance of it working. Often they run a bit loose.

We run two different schemes at Shockcraft for new McLeod shocks replacing RS or Fox. First we swap the RS or Fox hardware across and see how it goes. Most of the time one end is good.
Then new IGUS bushings if any end is loose. We have pre-tensioned bushings which fits in place of the RS DU bushing and solves knocking or binding faster and cheaper than the full custom route.
For Fox flanged IGUS if it's too tight we ream to size. If it's too loose we have slightly fatter bushings (green) which we install and them ream to size.

If none of that is going to work or it's a new fitment, we go Manitou 2 piece for the end that doesn't move much and usually full custom with IGUS for the end that does all the rotating.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

seamarsh said:


> Just FYI, I tried 2 different Rwc bearings and the were to loose to run. Apparently McLeod has slightly larger eyelet diameter.
> 
> The Rwc bearing I could push in almost by hand.. had to use bearing tool for last bit.. same bearing on a monarch rt has much much tighter fit.
> 
> ...


On mine, the fit of the RWC kit was on the easy side but it performs as expected, no issues. I don't recall any problems with the other end either, but it didn't need the rollers. As Dougal explained, shock fit is always a bit of a hit or miss thing, and sometimes it takes a little custom fitting. They do seem to trend towards the large side of the scale, but it is not just a Manitou thing.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Velodonata said:


> On mine, the fit of the RWC kit was on the easy side but it performs as expected, no issues. I don't recall any problems with the other end either, but it didn't need the rollers. As Dougal explained, shock fit is always a bit of a hit or miss thing, and sometimes it takes a little custom fitting. They do seem to trend towards the large side of the scale, but it is not just a Manitou thing.


Maybe it's just my shock? Idk I've had bikes since 1998.. never had this issue.

I will say however that manitou support/service has been super super helpful and they are sending out some of their bushings for me to try.

I'm still not totally sure my knock is related to bushing issues or knock is some internal issue.

At any rate they are getting me sorted so all good.

I put monarch rt back on and both Rwc and fox bushings had a great tight fit!

Who knows but I've been chasing this knock for a while and can't rule out bushings until I get some that fit properly.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

seamarsh said:


> Just FYI, I tried 2 different Rwc bearings and the were to loose to run. Apparently McLeod has slightly larger eyelet diameter.
> 
> The Rwc bearing I could push in almost by hand.. had to use bearing tool for last bit.. same bearing on a monarch rt has much much tighter fit.
> 
> ...


How long ago was this? They now include 4 different sized steel inner axles to help with the different sized eyelets. But this still didn't help you?


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> How long ago was this? They now include 4 different sized steel inner axles to help with the different sized eyelets. But this still didn't help you?


Earlier this year. No none of them fit tight enough. Issue is the eyelet size.. the roller bearing is designed to be compressed into the bore, if not the axles will have play. Same issue with all bushings I tried, they press in easier than they should and as a result there is play in axle.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Started the Mcleod tuning thread

https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mcleod-shim-tuning-1094350.html#post13930968

Its not as detailed as I would have liked as I cant find the 1st draft of the guide on my computer, only a few screen shots I had on my phone. I will update it in the coming weeks with more detailed information.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Dirt Road said:


> Before a Clyde pulls the trigger, is this shock good for a vpp intense? I'm on the fence rt3 RockShox is on the list.


I don't have much experience with the McLeod but I can say I don't recommend the rt3 for a Clyde. Too soft on compression


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I don't have much experience with the McLeod but I can say I don't recommend the rt3 for a Clyde. Too soft on compression


Yeah, I have a Monarch R now, no lockout. It's way soft even at 320psi. Imagine a RT3 would be similar.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Dirt Road said:


> Yeah, I have a Monarch R now, no lockout. It's way soft even at 320psi. Imagine a RT3 would be similar.


Yeah out of the box they are all really soft, although you can revalve a monarch r quite easily, but you can't so much with the Rt3 as the shims are just there for the pedal/lock mode


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I don't have much experience with the McLeod but I can say I don't recommend the rt3 for a Clyde. Too soft on compression


The stock McLeod damping is firmer than the firmest Monarch tune. It also avoids the forced sag of the Debonair cans.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> The stock McLeod damping is firmer than the firmest Monarch tune. It also avoids the forced sag of the Debonair cans.


I know a few Clydes that (skeptically) switched from RT3s to McLeods and were blown away by it. Even more so after they got a custom tune.

I'm far from a Clyde (160lbs), but in my experience, I have yet to find anyone over 230lbs that liked a monarch. I have also never found anyone over 230lbs that didn't find a McLeod as a upgrade over a monarch (rt3 or RC3) or a fox DPS or CTD.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

A Clyde here on an RT3 on my Following V1. Need to run excessive PSI just to achieve 30% sag. Installed three bands in the pos chamber just to be able to get near the 30% sag rate at 320-340 PSI, too close to max PSI for my liking. Even tried the standard can as recommended by Evil but same results with air pressure being at upper limit for shock and ride was harsher than the Debonair can. Just ordered a 190x50 for my bike. I had read on this forum somewhere that one of Manitou's employees was running this shock on his Following V1 so I contacted Manitou a while back about it and they said that they make a 6mm reducer for this shock. Contacted Manitou to see how to obtain the spacer, waiting for reply back. Hoping I can make this work. Had a Mcleod on my RIP9 that replaced the RP23 that it came with. I loved the Mcleod on that bike it totally transformed the bike for me eliminating the wallowing effect that the RP23 had. Only issue I had with the McLeod was the IFP failed but Manitou warrantied it no problem. My only next step will be to have the Monarch custom tuned.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Rngspnr said:


> A Clyde here on an RT3 on my Following V1. Need to run excessive PSI just to achieve 30% sag. Installed three bands in the pos chamber just to be able to get near the 30% sag rate at 320-340 PSI, too close to max PSI for my liking. Even tried the standard can as recommended by Evil but same results with air pressure being at upper limit for shock and ride was harsher than the Debonair can. Just ordered a 190x50 for my bike. I had read on this forum somewhere that one of Manitou's employees was running this shock on his Following V1 so I contacted Manitou a while back about it and they said that they make a 6mm reducer for this shock. Contacted Manitou to see how to obtain the spacer, waiting for reply back. Hoping I can make this work. Had a Mcleod on my RIP9 that replaced the RP23 that it came with. I loved the Mcleod on that bike it totally transformed the bike for me eliminating the wallowing effect that the RP23 had. Only issue I had with the McLeod was the IFP failed but Manitou warrantied it no problem. My only next step will be to have the Monarch custom tuned.


Dougal sells the spacers on his website

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html

Manitou will likely send you spacers for free though. Dougal ships worldwide and the prices are cheaper than they appear on his site, so it's a good link to keep in your back pocket if needed.

Multiple people at Manitou ride evil bikes, it's a great match


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Rngspnr said:


> A Clyde here on an RT3 on my Following V1. Need to run excessive PSI just to achieve 30% sag. Installed three bands in the pos chamber just to be able to get near the 30% sag rate at 320-340 PSI, too close to max PSI for my liking. Even tried the standard can as recommended by Evil but same results with air pressure being at upper limit for shock and ride was harsher than the Debonair can. Just ordered a 190x50 for my bike. I had read on this forum somewhere that one of Manitou's employees was running this shock on his Following V1 so I contacted Manitou a while back about it and they said that they make a 6mm reducer for this shock. Contacted Manitou to see how to obtain the spacer, waiting for reply back. Hoping I can make this work. Had a Mcleod on my RIP9 that replaced the RP23 that it came with. I loved the Mcleod on that bike it totally transformed the bike for me eliminating the wallowing effect that the RP23 had. Only issue I had with the McLeod was the IFP failed but Manitou warrantied it no problem. My only next step will be to have the Monarch custom tuned.


Unfortunately custom tuning doesn't work with the rt3, the shim stack only works as the pedal platform


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rngspnr said:


> A Clyde here on an RT3 on my Following V1. Need to run excessive PSI just to achieve 30% sag. Installed three bands in the pos chamber just to be able to get near the 30% sag rate at 320-340 PSI, too close to max PSI for my liking. Even tried the standard can as recommended by Evil but same results with air pressure being at upper limit for shock and ride was harsher than the Debonair can. Just ordered a 190x50 for my bike. I had read on this forum somewhere that one of Manitou's employees was running this shock on his Following V1 so I contacted Manitou a while back about it and they said that they make a 6mm reducer for this shock. Contacted Manitou to see how to obtain the spacer, waiting for reply back. Hoping I can make this work. Had a Mcleod on my RIP9 that replaced the RP23 that it came with. I loved the Mcleod on that bike it totally transformed the bike for me eliminating the wallowing effect that the RP23 had. Only issue I had with the McLeod was the IFP failed but Manitou warrantied it no problem. My only next step will be to have the Monarch custom tuned.


What are the spacers for? As Mullen119 said I have teflon ring spacers which reduce McLeod length and stroke in 1.25mm steps: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html

Prices are in $NZD, $NZD rates without NZ sales tax will show up correctly in the shopping cart once it knows your location and you can use www.xe.com or similar to see roughly what you'll be charged in your local currency. We are open again on 10th January.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Dougal said:


> What are the spacers for? As Mullen119 said I have teflon ring spacers which reduce McLeod length and stroke in 1.25mm steps: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html
> 
> Prices are in $NZD, $USD rates without NZ sales tax will show up correctly in the shopping cart once it knows your location. We are open again on 10th January.


That's exactly what the spacers are for. I had made contact with Manitou about using this shock on my Evil and their reply was that they could provide a 6mm spacer/reducer to fit the shock for my frame. Like I posted still waiting to hear back.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Unfortunately custom tuning doesn't work with the rt3, the shim stack only works as the pedal platform


Thanks for the info. I believe Craig at Avalanche does do tunes on the RT3. From what my buddy got as info from Craig the monarch on the Following is a shock he sees quite often. From what I understand when he does a tune on a monarch he basically removes the pedal platform which I have never really liked, I much prefer the simplicity of the Mcleod set and forget kind of shock with the ability to to match firmness with terrain needs.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

After the Xmas smoke clears, I’ll be looking into a Mccleod. Thx for the info this thread is very helpful!


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Unfortunately custom tuning doesn't work with the rt3, the shim stack only works as the pedal platform


Sorry for offtopic, but this is not true. RT3 can be tuned very well. I've retuned my own shock many times before I found good configuration. There is separate thread for RT3 tuning.

I like Manitou products, but haven't yet got the McLeod because the final tune for RT3 has very similar feeling as my Magnum fork in front (now with high flow piston). I've been waiting for the McLeod tuning thread and now when it's here, might try the McLeod.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

arnea said:


> Sorry for offtopic, but this is not true. RT3 can be tuned very well. I've retuned my own shock many times before I found good configuration. There is separate thread for RT3 tuning.
> 
> I like Manitou products, but haven't yet got the McLeod because the final tune for RT3 has very similar feeling as my Magnum fork in front (now with high flow piston). I've been waiting for the McLeod tuning thread and now when it's here, might try the McLeod.


I spent quite a few years tuning RT3s. They are definitely tunable and they are very good shocks. I'd take one over any of the fox in line shocks.

In my personal experience, my best tune on a RT3 was not as good as a stock McLeod, let alone a tuned one. I hope you do end up trying one, I would be very interested to see what you think


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

mullen119 said:


> I spent quite a few years tuning RT3s. They are definitely tunable and they are very good shocks. I'd take one over any of the fox in line shocks.
> 
> In my personal experience, my best tune on a RT3 was not as good as a stock McLeod, let alone a tuned one. I hope you do end up trying one, I would be very interested to see what you think


The rebound circuit is easily tuneable but The compression bypass circuit in the shaft dominates too much and acts as a soft blow off (I think the different valves in there are what define the s/m tunes) when in open mode so you can only make them slightly firmer up to a certain point before it blows off. The "m" tune ones can probably work ok for an average weight rider but definitely not the best out there for a Clyde. You could maybe run it in pedal mode all the time but it would likely be harsh and at that stage you may as well have bought a better shock. The R and RL shocks etc are all better for tuning! The rt3 has had a couple of different iterations so I've only had ones from the last few years on the dyno. maybe earlier ones were different but it's something I'll keep working on to improve


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

JohnnyC7 said:


> The rebound circuit is easily tuneable but The compression bypass circuit in the shaft dominates too much and acts as a soft blow off (I think the different valves in there are what define the s/m tunes) when in open mode so you can only make them slightly firmer up to a certain point before it blows off. The "m" tune ones can probably work ok for an average weight rider but definitely not the best out there for a Clyde. You could maybe run it in pedal mode all the time but it would likely be harsh and at that stage you may as well have bought a better shock. The R and RL shocks etc are all better for tuning! The rt3 has had a couple of different iterations so I've only had ones from the last few years on the dyno. maybe earlier ones were different but it's something I'll keep working on to improve


Yeah, the poppets in the shaft make it a little more difficult. You can source different springs stiffness (and lengths to play with float in open mode) as well as do a very small amount of tuning on the lsc check valve to change the charteristics some. The newst iteration I was inside was a 2016, not sure how they have changed since then.

I'm not a Clyde, far from it at 160lbs. The biggest issue I had, even at my weight, was the spring. The placement of the dimple on the debonair can never worked quite right for me. The regular can was an improvement, but had it's own set of issues. I can see it being worse as weight increases. Was still better that and mono-tube fox shock I have tried over the years though.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

JohnnyC7 said:


> The compression bypass circuit in the shaft dominates too much and acts as a soft blow off (I think the different valves in there are what define the s/m tunes) when in open mode so you can only make them slightly firmer up to a certain point before it blows off. The "m" tune ones can probably work ok for an average weight rider but definitely not the best out there for a Clyde. You could maybe run it in pedal mode all the time but it would likely be harsh and at that stage you may as well have bought a better shock.


I see what you mean. I agree that the way how pedalling support and lockout are implemented in RT3 (and also in Fox shocks) is inferior to McLeod. The main shim stack is heavily preloaded (to provide platform and lockout) and only works during large hits. During the smaller hits oil is flowing only through the shaft with limited throughput. If the hit is not big enough to open the main shims, but big enough the saturate the bypass, the fork will feel harsh. Rockshox (and Fox) have made the lockout and pedalling platform the most important features of the shock and sacrificed the unlocked performance. In case of McLeod you can decide if you want pedalling platform and lockout or not. And if you do not need them you can get full performance out of the shock. With McLeod one can get rid of preload by rotating the knob, with RT3 one must retune the shock.

When I tuned the RT3 I got rid of all the preload on main compression stack and went with linear stack. The three position lever has very little effect on how the shock feels. I can distinguish the different positions, but the differences are small. I run the shock always in open position. My frame (Transition Smuggler) has good anti-squat characteristics and I do not need pedalling support.

I'm clyde-ish at 220lbs, but I do not jump, only occasional small drops. Lot's of roots, so small bump compliance is important to me. Transition says that they designed the frame around 33% of sag, so it fits with RT3 Debonair spring. I run 195psi and one spacer.

I really do not know what the guys at Transition where thinking when they decided to sell XL frame with low/low tune. At my weight high+ rebound tune was needed to balance the shock during rebound - so it won't kick back at bigger extensions and won't pack down on small shatter.

If I could choose I wouldn't buy any other shock besides McLeod, but RT3 came with the frame and I already knew how to treat it, so I decided to save some money (and McLeod tuning guide was not out at this time).


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## Jurven240z (Jun 19, 2013)

mullen119 said:


> I'm just quoting manitou. Here is what they wrote:
> 
> n Jul 15, 2015 3:20 PM, "Techsupport" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Got your shock back. Sounds even worse in person. Surprised to hear it was working so well as the fluid is highly cavitated. Almost sounds like the IFP pressure is leaking into the oil chamber. Typically when that happens there is travel loss caused by the IFP creeping up which I am not seeing so I do not think that is what is happening. Not sure of a root cause yet, it is an interesting one for sure.
> ...


Feels like this is happening to my Mcleod. Been checking (over two months)everything to make sure its the shock and its still there, the knocking. Last night I felt the shock rebound knocks like it was on rapid fire while going down a rocky section of trail (baby heads). Found a local place that works on the shock anything I should ask to make sure everything gets looked at? Thank you.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jurven240z said:


> Feels like this is happening to my Mcleod. Been checking (over two months)everything to make sure its the shock and its still there, the knocking. Last night I felt the shock rebound knocks like it was on rapid fire while going down a rocky section of trail (baby heads). Found a local place that works on the shock anything I should ask to make sure everything gets looked at? Thank you.


Knocking feeling comes from the IPA lever backing off further than it should. First close it 1-2 clicks and see if the knocking goes away.

If it does, then first check the horizontal screw which sets the lever lower limit. It adjusts in to set the lever in the first notch position.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Velodonata said:


> ... but it is not just a Manitou thing.


Yeah, it is just a Manitou thing. I've used many different rear shocks over the past 20something years and the McLeod is the only shock that I've had this problem with. I ended up just using their bushings because the RWC and Fox were both way too loose. I tried them both on 2 of my three McLeods.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> Yeah, it is just a Manitou thing. I've used many different rear shocks over the past 20something years and the McLeod is the only shock that I've had this problem with. I ended up just using their bushings because the RWC and Fox were both way too loose. I tried them both on 2 of my three McLeods.


It's not a Manitou thing. Shock hardware tolerances are a nightmare across all brands. It's why I do custom shock hardware, keep 5 different grade pins in stock and have pre-tensioned bushings and oversized bushings too.

At least with McLeods they take the same pin tolerance in each end. Many other brand shocks need a different grade pin for each end.


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## weeblebiker (Oct 15, 2018)

hey all,
I have an '07 stumpy pro carbon frame that has a tight through hole for the rear damper. Does anyone have the dia of the standard and king can or can someone with a caliper measure the diameter? 
anything over 1.8" is going to be really tight. I suspect i'd prefer the king can plus it would look more awesome on my black and red frame. but not if it doesn't fit.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

weeblebiker said:


> hey all,
> I have an '07 stumpy pro carbon frame that has a tight through hole for the rear damper. Does anyone have the dia of the standard and king can or can someone with a caliper measure the diameter?
> anything over 1.8" is going to be really tight. I suspect i'd prefer the king can plus it would look more awesome on my black and red frame. but not if it doesn't fit.


Regular can is 1.7" king can is a little over 1.9"


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## weeblebiker (Oct 15, 2018)

Thanks!
Does someone know or can someone measure the width of the eyelets? trying to replace a brain shock. It's 14mm width on both ends. The lower eyelet ID is 15mm, the upper ID is 12mm with flanged bushings that drop the id to 8mm and increase the width to 16mm. 

can I get a McLeod to fit this?

most are running 200 x 50 on the alu 05-07 fsr frame but the carbon can handle a 200 x 56 without bottoming. It looks like the shock suspension link goes past perpendicular though. any reason not to use the 2.25" stroke over the 2"?

any better place to pick one up other than amazon and ebay for 288 nowadays?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

weeblebiker said:


> Thanks!
> Does someone know or can someone measure the width of the eyelets? trying to replace a brain shock. It's 14mm width on both ends. The lower eyelet ID is 15mm, the upper ID is 12mm with flanged bushings that drop the id to 8mm and increase the width to 16mm.
> 
> can I get a McLeod to fit this?
> ...


McLeod eyelets are 1/2" wide. 12.7mm give or take.

I've done exactly that swap a few years back but I only had the shocks in hand and not the bike. I think I made new shock hardware for it. The AFR brain used 12mm diameter pins.


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## Jurven240z (Jun 19, 2013)

Knocking still there after closing it 2 clicks. I even screwed in the horizontal setscrew. Even the rebound serscrew was adjusted. What next?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jurven240z said:


> Knocking still there after closing it 2 clicks. I even screwed in the horizontal setscrew. Even the rebound serscrew was adjusted. What next?


Then the adjuster isn't the cause. Can you take the air-can off the shock, reinstall it on the bike (so you can get good leverage) and see if you can still feel the knock?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Dougal said:


> It's not a Manitou thing. Shock hardware tolerances are a nightmare across all brands. It's why I do custom shock hardware, keep 5 different grade pins in stock and have pre-tensioned bushings and oversized bushings too.
> 
> At least with McLeods they take the same pin tolerance in each end. Many other brand shocks need a different grade pin for each end.


Well that is my experience, but I know you have much more than me when it comes to shocks. If you we're closer I'd send mine to you to size my hardware and tune it. Is there anyone in the USA that I can trust to tune my damper?


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

yogiprophet said:


> Yeah, it is just a Manitou thing. I've used many different rear shocks over the past 20something years and the McLeod is the only shock that I've had this problem with. I ended up just using their bushings because the RWC and Fox were both way too loose. I tried them both on 2 of my three McLeods.


I sent my shock back to manitou, they have been great to deal with so that is a plus.

Gotta say, Ive had many of shocks fox, rockshox and x-fusion.. never had an issue with bushings like I've had with this shock.. Ive also used RWC on every shock and its always worked.

This is 100% a manitou issue and the fit between my RT debonair and the mcleod is night and day difference. if it wasn't a manitou issue I would have seen issue with another brand by now.

Maybe dougal is going for a super precise fit.. so I could see that.. but we are talking about unusable tolerances.. btw even the manitou bushing they sent out fit poorly.. is it too much to ask for zero slop in my bushings?

Also the fact that others are using RWC in mcleod without issue points to something not right with certain shocks, obviously not all but some.

Im hopeful that my mcleod comes back in usable condition.. if not Ill be forced to move on to another brand unfortunately.

Manitou is also in the middle of replacing their 2 peice bushings so they can be hard to find..

anyway, as I said, Manitou has been great to deal with but feel like this is last chance for me to get a working shock before I throw it out the window in frustration.


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## resko (Jan 16, 2019)

Hello.
I need help.
We have a rear shock Manitou McLeod on service... and I can't find bushing for air piston - we need it. Can help me to find it in stores? Or give me part number of it. 
Thank you.


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

... here the needed part numbers:

McLeod Air Can Seal Kit (Manitou) <--
142-31535-K002

McLeod Complete Seal Kit (Manitou)
142-31535-K001

... sorry - you asked for the bushings - I use "Huber-Bushings" 
... but I don't know if these products are also available in your country


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## resko (Jan 16, 2019)

But its only seals. I need bushing or full air piston(if bushing don't sold separately). It is metal part.
I can accept this part in USA or any EU country. It is not a problem for me.


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

... I can´t see what part you really want !?
... here are the spare-parts for the McLeod:


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## resko (Jan 16, 2019)




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## Klaster_1 (Jan 7, 2018)

Been considering a McLeod for a while, but there are some questions. Earlier in this thread, a rather light rider reported unsatisfying performance and was suggested to try a King Can. Problem is, I'm light too (~64kg), but my frame accepts 168x38 only, which King Can isn't available for. The frame is Dengfu M06 (single pivot, flex stays, ~10cm rear travel) and shock is Radium Pro DC. Any ideas if I should be concerned about getting adequate performance at my weight/frame combo?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Klaster_1 said:


> Been considering a McLeod for a while, but there are some questions. Earlier in this thread, a rather light rider reported unsatisfying performance and was suggested to try a King Can. Problem is, I'm light too (~64kg), but my frame accepts 168x38 only, which King Can isn't available for. The frame is Dengfu M06 (single pivot, flex stays, ~10cm rear travel) and shock is Radium Pro DC. Any ideas if I should be concerned about getting adequate performance at my weight/frame combo?


I would say shoot Manitou an email and see what their recommendation is. You may have to go with a special shim stack tune for your weight along with the King Can or something to the sort. They will be able to talk with you and see what is the best application for you (or if the manitou will even be a viable option).


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

resko said:


> View attachment 1233856


Is it damaged? It's not a part that usually has issues.

If it is damaged, punch it out and measure. It's a DP/DX bushing which can be sourced through most hydraulic suppliers.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

gregnash said:


> I would say shoot Manitou an email and see what their recommendation is. You may have to go with a special shim stack tune for your weight along with the King Can or something to the sort. They will be able to talk with you and see what is the best application for you (or if the manitou will even be a viable option).


I do believe they have different shim stacks from factory. I just received my Mcleod and the label on the box designates standard shim stack which leads me to believe that they are available with different tunes. Waiting on reducer from Manitou can't wait to try this on my Following.


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## Karlewski (Dec 3, 2016)

out of context


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

I finally dropped one of these into a 2016 Commencal Meta V4. 200x56 replacing the 200x57 RT3.

Just wanted to come and share how it is an absolute JOKE how good this thing is. My test ride was muddy, and this bike is rolling on soft downhill tires, so I was quite slow. My impression, though, is that this thing would absolutely rip with the lever in the second or third positions, while still being smoother than the piece of **** Monarch.

In full-open, you can sit down over way bigger bumps than I'm used to with no discomfort. And it climbs like a damned goat. A very slow, but extremely sure-footed goat.

It honestly may be better than the DB Coil on my other bike, though that could be a matter of tuning. For once, I'm digging the lack of options. Out of the box, this thing just works.

Zero fitment issues on stock hardware, to boot. Beat the too-tight pins out of the Monarch, and they slid smoothly (but not loose) into the McLeod.


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## Klaster_1 (Jan 7, 2018)

gregnash said:


> I would say shoot Manitou an email and see what their recommendation is.


The answer has arrived: "a stock McLeod will work for you". That's it. Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, especially from Russian dealer, whose competence I very much doubt.


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## rpl3000 (Feb 24, 2004)

How's this been treating you? Did you buy 500x57 or go a bit bigger? I run my Prophet with a 150 fork and a 216x63 rear shock in the FR position. 

I was never too keen on the SPV 3-way so I switched to a Monarch R (L-L tune) from another bike. That sucked big time. Switch to a Monarch RC3 (M-M) tune that is much better but I can still blast through the travel on larger hits/ drops.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Metric McLeods are in stock for those interested. Part numbers are as follows

192-33979-A001

McLeod 190x40 BLK AM (METRIC)
_______________
192-33979-A002

McLeod 190x45 BLK AM (METRIC)
________________
192-33979-A003

McLeod 210x50 BLK AM (METRIC)
_______________
192-33979-A004

McLeod 210x55 BLK AM (METRIC)
________________
192-33979-A005

McLeod 230x60 BLK AM (METRIC)
________________
192-33979-A006

McLeod 230x65 BLK AM (METRIC)


For future reference (people are going to ask), the 5mm difference between the strokes of any given eye 2 eye is achieved by a spacers on the shaft. For example, this means the 210x50 can be converted to a 210x55 by removing a 5mm bottom out spacer. This can only be done by removing the top cap or disassembling the damper (piston removal).


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Metric McLeods are in stock for those interested. Part numbers are as follows
> 
> 192-33979-A001
> 
> ...


Also to clarify. These are metric eyelet. I understand Metric Trunnion (which are ~20mm shorter i2i for the same stroke) aren't shipping just yet.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Also to clarify. These are metric eyelet. I understand Metric Trunnion (which are ~20mm shorter i2i for the same stroke) aren't shipping just yet.


Correct, thank you for clarifying


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## Jurven240z (Jun 19, 2013)

Dougal said:


> Knocking feeling comes from the IPA lever backing off further than it should. First close it 1-2 clicks and see if the knocking goes away.
> 
> If it does, then first check the horizontal screw which sets the lever lower limit. It adjusts in to set the lever in the first notch position.


Little update on the issue above.. Replaced the Mcloed with old shock (Fox Float) and did two rides. Heard the knocking noise on the first ride but the second ride revealed the problem. Broken aluminum frame. My plan is to purchase a Turner RFX frame now the question. Can get it with a Cane Creek DB Air or do you think a Mcloed would be better? I'm at 200 lbs ready to ride. Not an air gap or a huge drop taker kind of rider but fly down the rocky sections. The fork will be at 160 and the shock will be at 200x57. Thanks for you advise.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Jurven240z said:


> Little update on the issue above.. Replaced the Mcloed with old shock (Fox Float) and did two rides. Heard the knocking noise on the first ride but the second ride revealed the problem. Broken aluminum frame. My plan is to purchase a Turner RFX frame now the question. Can get it with a Cane Creek DB Air or do you think a Mcloed would be better? I'm at 200 lbs ready to ride. Not an air gap or a huge drop taker kind of rider but fly down the rocky sections. The fork will be at 160 and the shock will be at 200x57. Thanks for you advise.


I have just swapped a cane creek db air IL for a mcleod on my Process 111, i like the mcleod more but the DB Air is a very good shock, you will be fine with both.
Mcleod is more supple, i like the IPA on the trail setting, i like to be able to service it.

Cane Creek service is expensive.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

seamarsh said:


> I sent my shock back to manitou, they have been great to deal with so that is a plus.
> 
> Gotta say, Ive had many of shocks fox, rockshox and x-fusion.. never had an issue with bushings like I've had with this shock.. Ive also used RWC on every shock and its always worked.
> 
> ...


Update: Sprung for the RWC tool plus DU bushing remover. Removed bushing.

And yes, the needle bearing bushing pushed in without a lot of force. Didn't need the install tool ... yet.

Of the 4 different inner pieces they give you, the biggest one doesn't fit all of the way. It starts to go in but about 1/8th of the way in it gets stuck. The next smaller one goes in very easily and can slide out pretty easily.

So far no knocking and the instructions say it may settle so I'm hoping it settles in and the largest tube fits as it's barely getting stuck.

But so far there hasn't been any issues. It is definitely more active.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jurven240z said:


> Little update on the issue above.. Replaced the Mcloed with old shock (Fox Float) and did two rides. Heard the knocking noise on the first ride but the second ride revealed the problem. Broken aluminum frame. My plan is to purchase a Turner RFX frame now the question. Can get it with a Cane Creek DB Air or do you think a Mcloed would be better? I'm at 200 lbs ready to ride. Not an air gap or a huge drop taker kind of rider but fly down the rocky sections. The fork will be at 160 and the shock will be at 200x57. Thanks for you advise.


Well that's rough news.

They're very different shocks. The DB Air is a lot more complex and generally can't be serviced at home (depends on your home).


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> Update: Sprung for the RWC tool plus DU bushing remover. Removed bushing.
> 
> And yes, the needle bearing bushing pushed in without a lot of force. Didn't need the install tool ... yet.
> 
> ...


We got to look at seamarsh's shock. The eyelet was not the issue with his shock. We found it had a poorly fitting damper piston glide ring. This caused there to be a little bit of play when the shock would transition between compression and rebound strokes, and he felt that as a knock.

I will post a more complete write up on the issue at some point. Expect your hardware to be knock free.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> We got to look at seamarsh's shock. The eyelet was not the issue with his shock. We found it had a poorly fitting damper piston glide ring. This caused there to be a little bit of play when the shock would transition between compression and rebound strokes, and he felt that as a knock.
> 
> I will post a more complete write up on the issue at some point. Expect your hardware to be knock free.


Yes it seems like it was mimicking a bushing issue but was internal.. my own shock was gas lighting me.. as there is some play in bushings compared to other brand shocks I chased that rabbit down the hole for months.

Turns out it was just a fluke.

I'll chime in with impressions and outcomes once I get the shock back. Excited to try a sorted shock!)


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Dang that is brutal but sounds like it was sorted out so that's good news!

The Fox bushings pushed in and pulled out without any tools just my fingers but never had an issue either.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> Dang that is brutal but sounds like it was sorted out so that's good news!
> 
> The Fox bushings pushed in and pulled out without any tools just my fingers but never had an issue either.


Yep they have been nothing but helpful on their end, especially once they realized it was a defect and I wasn't insane... They probably thought I was!


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> I hope you do end up trying one, I would be very interested to see what you think


Took a first step and ordered one. The seller is waiting for delivery from Manitou so hopefully it has the latest shimstack.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

seamarsh said:


> Yep they have been nothing but helpful on their end, especially once they realized it was a defect and I wasn't insane... They probably thought I was!


Not at all. It was actually helpful to get your shock in. The most important thing is customer satisfaction. Manitou is a fairly small brand and happy customers are the only way it will continue to grow. Curious to hear your take after a few rides on your replacement.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> Not at all. It was actually helpful to get your shock in. The most important thing is customer satisfaction. Manitou is a fairly small brand and happy customers are the only way it will continue to grow. Curious to hear your take after a few rides on your replacement.


Well I started this process on December 14th, So what I mean is it did take a while to work through the troubleshooting and elimination process. When I first wrote in I was thinking it was bushings but when they saw (from my video) that the bushings seemed normal, even with the manitou bushing they sent me I think it was suspect that I was a little cray. It wasn't until after I sent shock in and it turned out to be something that they have not really seen, so much so that they kept my shock for future forensic evaluation and replaced with new one.

So while it was tongue and cheek to say they thought I was crazy..maybe not totally far off. I thought maybe I was crazy! I bought every different kind of bushing I could find and redid all my pivot points on my SC Hightower trying to find the clunk.

Anyway, its been a saga because the shock has been off the bike for 8 weeks, but I do have a back up which is great and its dead of winter so it hasn't stopped me from riding.

All in all Im happy with outcome, shock should be here this week, but It was a process to get to this point. I'm not putting that on manitou but more an issue when you have a really obscure internal problem that is basically impossible to troubleshoot.

Hoping to get a ride in next week with new shock and xing fingers it works as intended.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I've had a few products from Hayes bike group. The one thing I can say is that their customer service is excellent. They always respond to emails and have always provided me with a solution for my concerns or problems. I have a Mcleod waiting to go onto my Following just waiting for reducer to fit my bikes travel. looking forward to see how this shock feels on a Following. Had one on a 2012 RIP9 and it transformed that bike from a wallowing pig to a snappy responsive bike.


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

Hi, looking for some advise on if the mcleod would be good for my bike. I been reading through the whole thread, and get a sense it should. I recently got only my 2nd full suspension bike in 20+yrs of mtb riding, usually a hardtail and SS rider. My new bike is a 2019 specialized 29er stumpy ST 120mm rear. It is the base model with the x-fusion 02 Pro RL. So not much adjustment on it. I have played with settings as much as i can, and just not liking the the pedaling platform, to much bob and inefficient. Was thinking about getting the Fox shock that came on the higher end model, but then started reading about the Mcleod here. Me not knowing much about leverage curves, would the Mcleod be a good fit for the 2019 stumpy, and would it provide me better pedaling efficiency? When I do want to stand and climb it wont suck! Also the shock on the stumpy is an 190X42.5, Mcleod either has 190X40 or 190x45, which one would be better to get, smaller stroke or little larger stroke? Thanks for any input anyone can provide!


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Dougal and Mullen might verify or correct this, but 190x40 will limit your travel and 190x45 will increase it with the risk of parts hitting each other. It's therefore probably best to buy 190x45 and limit the travel with a 2.5mm spacer. 

Regarding the suitability of the McLeod: I'm sure it will be fine. The Stumpjumper doesn't have a very strange leverage curve for as far as I know and the McLeod has transformed multiple people's bikes from wallowing to 'snappy and responsive' like the poster above you puts it. 
Your other option (Fox DPS) might work, because pedalling efficiency was very good on my bike (even with 160mm travel in the open or middle setting). Unfortunately, it blew through its travel on medium sized drops or had no small bump compliance and never handled square edged bumps very well (or even acceptably). 
For this reason I have bought a McLeod as replacement, which I haven't had the chance to install yet (in bed with an infection for 3 days already...). The compression damping according to all experiences I've read is supposed to be miles better. This should help achieve both pedalling efficiency and sensitivity.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

So I received my McLeod and have a few questions before installing:
1. The shock is manufactured in 9/2017. Should the air can be opened and lubed (and negative chamber reset) or can it be installed as is?
2. If it needs relubing (or resetting the negative), do I really need the special 80 dollar wrench?
3. The manual says to first compress the shock before unthreading the air can. This is nearly impossible off the bike (because of IFP pressure I assume). Is this really necessary and if so, how do you guys do this without further special tools?


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Mac1987 said:


> So I received my McLeod and have a few questions before installing:
> 1. The shock is manufactured in 9/2017. Should the air can be opened and lubed (and negative chamber reset) or can it be installed as is?
> 2. If it needs relubing (or resetting the negative), do I really need the special 80 dollar wrench?
> 3. The manual says to first compress the shock before unthreading the air can. This is nearly impossible off the bike (because of IFP pressure I assume). Is this really necessary and if so, how do you guys do this without further special tools?


1. i would reset it now. probably no need, but its a super simple thing to do.
2. no need for a tool
3. when i had a McLeod, i removed the air can with the shock on the bike. this way i could compress when assembling / deassembling.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Mac1987 said:


> So I received my McLeod and have a few questions before installing:
> 1. The shock is manufactured in 9/2017. Should the air can be opened and lubed (and negative chamber reset) or can it be installed as is?
> 2. If it needs relubing (or resetting the negative), do I really need the special 80 dollar wrench?
> 3. The manual says to first compress the shock before unthreading the air can. This is nearly impossible off the bike (because of IFP pressure I assume). Is this really necessary and if so, how do you guys do this without further special tools?


I think the video says to put it back on the bike.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Someone mentioned a pipe strap wrench if you can't do it easily by hand.


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

My McLeod was manufactured in 2017, I believe. It seems to work excellently out of the box, as reported above. After riding, there is visible grease on the shaft- meaning, in my mind, well-lubed from the factory. YMMV.

I think the immediate factory oil change is more important on forks, where everything is generally a little dry out of the box. If they haven't been too stingy with the oil, a day or two upside down should sort things out.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Ok, will try on the bike by hand and otherwise look for a strap wrench. Thanks for all the quick replies!


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Mac1987 said:


> Ok, will try on the bike by hand and otherwise look for a strap wrench. Thanks for all the quick replies!


You usually need a strap wrench or similar to break it loose the first time. After that you can install and remove by hand.

On the bike help, mostly for install as installing fills the negative chamber and it's hard to catch the threads while pushing so hard to get up to the threads in the first. It can be done without damaging it, but it takes a lot of effort.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Looks like I have to invest in a strap wrench. My Fox DPS Evol could be opened by hand the first time, but if the McLeod is as much better as everyone says it is (and if my experience with a Mattoc is anything to go by, I have no reason to doubt that), it's easily worth the small extra investment. 
Will definitely do the reset on the bike now, thanks.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

You can get a strap wrench @ Home Depot for $10. As far as removing and reinstalling the air can turn your rebound to slowest with like 50psi in shock, makes it much easier.The strap wrench is also good for fork services.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8-in-Strap-Wrench-H8STRAPWR/300117125


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks for the advice on removing and reinstalling the air can.
Regarding Home Depot, I live in the Netherlands, so international shipping might make it less of a deal .
Good strap wrenches seem to go for 30+ dollars here and crappy ones for 10. I'd rather buy once though. Knowing myself, if I buy the crappy one, I'll still end up buying the good one after a while. Can't stand crappy tools (or bike parts for that matter).


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

Mac1987 said:


> Dougal and Mullen might verify or correct this, but 190x40 will limit your travel and 190x45 will increase it with the risk of parts hitting each other. It's therefore probably best to buy 190x45 and limit the travel with a 2.5mm spacer.
> 
> Regarding the suitability of the McLeod: I'm sure it will be fine. The Stumpjumper doesn't have a very strange leverage curve for as far as I know and the McLeod has transformed multiple people's bikes from wallowing to 'snappy and responsive' like the poster above you puts it.
> Your other option (Fox DPS) might work, because pedalling efficiency was very good on my bike (even with 160mm travel in the open or middle setting). Unfortunately, it blew through its travel on medium sized drops or had no small bump compliance and never handled square edged bumps very well (or even acceptably).
> For this reason I have bought a McLeod as replacement, which I haven't had the chance to install yet (in bed with an infection for 3 days already...). The compression damping according to all experiences I've read is supposed to be miles better. This should help achieve both pedalling efficiency and sensitivity.


Thanks for the detailed responce!

Any chance Dougal or Mullen, you have the part number for a 2.5 spacer. Also, I assume the 190x40 has a 5m spacer in it and the 190x45 has no spacers? So I could get either with the 2.5 spacer to make it 190x42.5. Thanks in advance.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Also interested in the spacer I see Dougal has a bunch on his site but not sure which one. 

I may or may not be getting an SB100 at a price that cannot be refused. I believe it comes with a DPS which when it's due for a service, I'll not be servicing and spending that money on a McLeod if possible (so I'll never have to pay anyone for service). Or maybe just rip the shock off right away and sell it. 

But the frame uses a 190x37.5 and I think the Mcleod only comes 190x40.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Contact Manitou they'll supply the reducer you need.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jdang307 said:


> Also interested in the spacer I see Dougal has a bunch on his site but not sure which one.
> 
> I may or may not be getting an SB100 at a price that cannot be refused. I believe it comes with a DPS which when it's due for a service, I'll not be servicing and spending that money on a McLeod if possible (so I'll never have to pay anyone for service). Or maybe just rip the shock off right away and sell it.
> 
> But the frame uses a 190x37.5 and I think the Mcleod only comes 190x40.


To reduce stroke like that you'd need to put a spacer under the bottom-out bumper on the shaft inside the air-can.
It's easy to do. Once you have the damper apart.

I'd check bottom-out clearance with a 190x40 and see if you can safely run that much without any additional spacers. Yeti do some weird things so you'd have to check nothing over-strokes in their linkages.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Dougal said:


> To reduce stroke like that you'd need to put a spacer under the bottom-out bumper on the shaft inside the air-can.
> It's easy to do. Once you have the damper apart.
> 
> I'd check bottom-out clearance with a 190x40 and see if you can safely run that much without any additional spacers. Yeti do some weird things so you'd have to check nothing over-strokes in their linkages.


You are saying to test it even without the spacer just to see? Run it through and make sure nothing hits?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jdang307 said:


> You are saying to test it even without the spacer just to see? Run it through and make sure nothing hits?


Yes.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

seamarsh said:


> I sent my shock back to manitou, they have been great to deal with so that is a plus.
> 
> Gotta say, Ive had many of shocks fox, rockshox and x-fusion.. never had an issue with bushings like I've had with this shock.. Ive also used RWC on every shock and its always worked.
> 
> ...


Just to follow up on my post. Manitou was great to deal with and once they got my shock and realized it was a lemon they decided to keep it for autopsy and sent me a new shock that also had updated shim stacks/tuning.. here are my impressions.

So far I have 2 rides in on new shock and its working great. Shim stack changes are a noticeable on both rebound and compression.

Compression has way more mid stroke support and I also notice shock doesn't blow through the end of travel like it did before. Im actually running about 10lbs less pressure as well. It feels more composed all around.

Rebound is greatly improved. before when climbing tech/rocky sections you had to really dial in the rebound to get the shock to not buck when going over rock ledges etc.

As a result when you hit the downs previously, the rebound would feel too slow and pack up. I always had a hard time getting it dialed before and the range of adjustment was smaller and more sensitive than with current set up. With new shims setting rebound feels much more glued to the ground, and you can tell bike is keeping better contact with ground, more traction etc.

I do feel just a bit of notchy-ness when IPA lever is fully open.. still almost a loose bushing feeling, its way better than before but feels a little.. floppy? when charging downhill.I know on my Hightower I could basically leave it at 1 click of IPA all the time.. Don't really need lock out, this could also be the way santa cruz VPP works with shock.. idk.

With IPA adjusted in one click it feels much better and that how I prefer running it. Its firmer but more composed. Im guessing that clunky feeling is just somewhat inherent in this shock when IPA is fully open?

I don't like the feeling of climbing when fully open either and prefer 1 click of IPA, just to get rid of that "to open" feeling.

I could be super sensitive to this and maybe others would not notice it.. sure that could be the case.

All in all its a much improved set up, Im sure some of this is do to the fact that I had a lemon before but some of it is definitely the new shim stack.

Feeling very happy with this shock now.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Dougal said:


> For Fox flanged IGUS if it's too tight we ream to size. If it's too loose we have slightly fatter bushings (green) which we install and them ream to size.


I just noticed that Fox flanged bushings are now available in two sizes:

https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=184701;menu=1000,2,119;pgc[18008][18012]=1

and

https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=282978;menu=1000,2,119;pgc[18008][18012]=1


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

arnea said:


> I just noticed that Fox flanged bushings are now available in two sizes:
> 
> https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=184701;menu=1000,2,119;pgc[18008][18012]=1
> 
> ...


Wow, interesting.
If I can get part numbers, I can order them.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

Dougal said:


> To reduce stroke like that you'd need to put a spacer under the bottom-out bumper on the shaft inside the air-can.
> It's easy to do. Once you have the damper apart.
> 
> I'd check bottom-out clearance with a 190x40 and see if you can safely run that much without any additional spacers. Yeti do some weird things so you'd have to check nothing over-strokes in their linkages.


Dougal, do you have McLeod bottom-out spacers on your website? I looked and only found topout spacers.
Are they a Manitou part?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fsrxc said:


> Dougal, do you have McLeod bottom-out spacers on your website? I looked and only found topout spacers.
> Are they a Manitou part?


I don't have anything up on the web yet. It's custom machining at this point.

I reduced one to 190x45mm yesterday.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

*Manitou bushing with Fox hardware*

I finally installed my new McLeod on my Cube Stereo 160. When removing the yellow bushing from the Fox DPS I accidentally damaged it. Because I didn't feel like waiting on new bushings to arrive, I tried to use the Fox reducer (is that the name?) with the factory installed Manitou bushings. The fit was very tight and required a vice to insert completely. The shock does seem to move ok and riding it felt pretty good. Hitting square edge bumps (horrible with the Fox) at low speed felt 50% better than the Fox shock. However, hitting the same bumps at speed made them nearly disappear! Very impressed so far.

The only question I have is the following: does it hurt to use the Manitou bushings with the Fox reducer? Every instruction says to first remove the stock bushing and replace all hardware with the old hardware or use everything from Manitou. However, riding the bike felt fine and what's the use of the pre-installed bushings if you have to always remove them? 
If there is a reason to not use this combination, would it be harmful to use it temporarily until I receive the correct matching bushings and reducer?


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## q232 (Mar 8, 2011)

Hi.
I have an issues with McLeod.
I bought it instead of RS Monarch Plus. I have tried to install it with standard RS mount hardware. With Mcleod I have about 1 mm free space. I am little confused and do not understand which hardware I should order for my frame. I do not find in Germany 22mmx8mm from Manitou.
It has 22mmX8mm and 36mmX8mm hardware.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

q232 said:


> Hi.
> I have an issues with McLeod.
> I bought it instead of RS Monarch Plus. I have tried to install it with standard RS mount hardware. With Mcleod I have about 1 mm free space. I am little confused and do not understand which hardware I should order for my frame. I do not find in Germany 22mmx8mm from Manitou.
> It has 22mmX8mm and 36mmX8mm hardware.


What type of bushings did the previous shock have?

There are a few sites that you can get them from that ship worldwide, including Dougals company (prices are not as high as they appear because of a NZ tax you won't have to pay)
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/engineered-parts/shock-hardware


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

If you're in Europe, you can order the RockShox hardware in 22mm https://www.bike-components.de/de/R...-fuer-Monarch-Kage-Vivid-Ario-ab-2010-p24675/

If you're near New-Zealand, I would order from Dougal.


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## q232 (Mar 8, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> What type of bushings did the previous shock have?
> 
> There are a few sites that you can get them from that ship worldwide, including Dougals company (prices are not as high as they appear because of a NZ tax you won't have to pay)
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/engineered-parts/shock-hardware


It is a standard Rock Shox Mount Harware - 







The length of the pins is ok. But cups is shoter. This problem for both eye. Below I added photo of my problem.



Mac1987 said:


> If you're in Europe, you can order the RockShox hardware in 22mm https://www.bike-components.de/de/R...-fuer-Monarch-Kage-Vivid-Ario-ab-2010-p24675/
> 
> If you're near New-Zealand, I would order from Dougal.


I have RS Hardware. It does not work.
Here is my problem in the pictures:


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I installed my Mcleod with the standard Rockshox hardware no issues. Are you people removing the DU bushing and trying to just use the sleeve that should fit into the bushing? This is the only way I can see there being play at the eyelet. I just pushed the Rockshox sleeve into the du bushing and installed.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

This doesn't seem to be properly assembled.


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## q232 (Mar 8, 2011)

piciu256 said:


> This doesn't seem to be properly assembled.


Hmm. I think the same.
But how I ride before with them and RS Monarch with out sliding on the pin. 
Thanks I will try order other pairs and check.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

To me it looks like it just not pushed all the way in.


----------



## q232 (Mar 8, 2011)

No. I even add a rubber ring, which found in the table. Only that it is not move.


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

q232 said:


> No. I even add a rubber ring, which found in the table. Only that it is not move.


... for Germany I would use the "Huber-Bushings".
... you can order the bushings in individual dimensions for a moderate price.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Dougal said:


> For Fox flanged IGUS if it's too tight we ream to size. If it's too loose we have slightly fatter bushings (green) which we install and them ream to size.


I installed new Fox flanged bushings (with stainless steel pin) to new McLeod. The bushings had a tight fit, but the pin has very loose fit. It will just fall through.






Both ends have exactly same fit. I do not feel any knocking though, so I'm going to ride it. But I suppose I need flanged bushings with tighter fit.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

arnea said:


> I installed new Fox flanged bushings (with stainless steel pin) to new McLeod. The bushings had a tight fit, but the pin has very loose fit. It will just fall through.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It says "video unavailable".


----------



## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

My bad, forgot to publish it after uploading.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

arnea said:


> My bad, forgot to publish it after uploading.


Yeah I see it now. That's too loose. It may feel okay on install but will seat to the point you notice a knock quite quickly.
Best fit IMO is requiring two fingers to push it through.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Yeah I see it now. That's too loose. It may feel okay on install but will seat to the point you notice a knock quite quickly.
> Best fit IMO is requiring two fingers to push it through.


I see. I hope the replacement bushings with larger wall thickness (https://www.bike24.de/1.php?content=8;product=184701;menu=1000,2,119;pgc[18008][18012]=1) are not the default ones and will solve the problem.

Edit: looks like this is the "standard" bushing with part number 213-01-263 that is most likely included with the kit. I did not find the part number for other bushing with smaller diameters. Not sure if that would solve the problem.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Are the Trunnion Mount Kingcan McLeod available now?


----------



## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Since we're on the topic of bushings, I have the following question:

Is there harm in using the Manitou bushings with the Fox reducer? Every instruction says to first remove the stock bushing and replace all hardware with the old hardware or use everything from Manitou. However, riding the bike felt fine and what's the use of the pre-installed bushings if you have to always remove them? The only thing I observed is that the Fox bushings are slightly wider than the eyelet and have a flange, providing pressure on the o-ring.

If there is a reason to not use this combination, would it be harmful to use it temporarily until I receive the correct matching bushings and reducer?


----------



## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Not sure but I bought Rockshox hardware and used it with the stock bushings no problem. After 6 months it seemed like the burnt orange film was brand new.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Honestly the strangest thing about this shock is the eyelet size and the lack of acknowledgement that it’s an issue. 

There’s enough people having problems with this that it’s obviously an issue. 

Not sure why they don’t measure internal bore of rockshox and fox and match that, would just make everything easier. 

Manitou are you listening? Great people btw, very helpful, but this issue has me puzzled.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

I lost the oring to measure travel. Anyone know how to source one without buying a whole damn kit? I thought about putting a zip tie on, but was worried about scratching the stanchion?

EDIT: Just searched and saw an old post about tying up a thin rubber band and trimming the edges. Might have to go the ghetto route


----------



## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> I lost the oring to measure travel. Anyone know how to source one without buying a whole damn kit? I thought about putting a zip tie on, but was worried about scratching the stanchion?
> 
> EDIT: Just searched and saw an old post about tying up a thin rubber band and trimming the edges. Might have to go the ghetto route


I'd just measure the shock stanchion with some calipers and then look on eBay for red 1mm oring with dimension you get from caliper minus a couple mm for tight fit.

Probably get a bag of 10 for 3$


----------



## Klaster_1 (Jan 7, 2018)

jdang307 said:


> Anyone know how to source one without buying a whole damn kit?


Cut a square section rubber band to size, make sure the cut is perpendicular, wrap it around the stanchion and glue both ends together with super glue. I've been using this approach on all of my forks.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Are the Trunnion Mount Kingcan McLeod available now?


Nope. We have metric eyelet versions available but not yet the Metric Trunnion.



seamarsh said:


> Honestly the strangest thing about this shock is the eyelet size and the lack of acknowledgement that it's an issue.
> 
> There's enough people having problems with this that it's obviously an issue.
> 
> ...


If you measure up the average Fox you get a different eyelet diameter each end. I can assure you this is not a Manitou specific problem. The McLeod was the first shock I ever found with both ends measuring up the same (i.e. within 0.01mm).

Try to put RS hardware in a Fox or Fox hardware in a RS and your chances of a good fit are tiny. Shock hardware is a nightmare of tolerance issues and you have a 0.02mm window to get it right.


----------



## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Finally got this shock onto my Following thanks to Nick @Manitou. Shock feels way better than the stock Monarch. More active and supple. Rear wheel stays connected to the ground much better now. Shock is incredibly smooth over rough chatter and moves into its travel much better over square ledges. I needed too much pressure in the Monarch 330psi for my weight causing it to feel somewhat dead and jittery. This is the second bike I've had this shock on I love this shock.


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## lawson (Apr 3, 2007)

I do apologise as I've tried to search, but if I buy a 200x50 mcleod, am I able to make that work in the 200 X 57 configuration? Case of removing a spacer? Or have I somehow missed the point? Thank you 👍


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

lawson said:


> I do apologise as I've tried to search, but if I buy a 200x50 mcleod, am I able to make that work in the 200 X 57 configuration? Case of removing a spacer? Or have I somehow missed the point? Thank you 👍


You cannot space the 200x50 up to 200x57. But you can space the 200x57 down to 200x50.

The 200x50 shares aircan etc with the 190x50.


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## lawson (Apr 3, 2007)

Thanks very much 👍


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

I've tried to scan though a lot of the info in this thread but at 20 pages it has become a bit overwhelming so excuse me if this question has been covered already.

I'm looking to possibly replace the Fox RP23 on my 2008 Turner Sultan with the TNT rear end. I had the RP23 serviced and tuned by Push 5 or more years ago now and it has been what I'd call okay.

Do you think switching to a stock, off the shelf, Mcleod would be a noticeable improvement over my RP23 or does one typically need to have some custom work done to get the most out of Mcleod?

Thanks.


----------



## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Stahr_Nut said:


> I've tried to scan though a lot of the info in this thread but at 20 pages it has become a bit overwhelming so excuse me if this question has been covered already.
> 
> I'm looking to possibly replace the Fox RP23 on my 2008 Turner Sultan with the TNT rear end. I had the RP23 serviced and tuned by Push 5 or more years ago now and it has been what I'd call okay.
> 
> ...


I'd say yes for an improvement over an old RP23. I think most of this tuning here is for maximum benefits from the shock. You should be able to run it out of the box with good results.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

keen said:


> I'd say yes for an improvement over an old RP23. I think most of this tuning here is for maximum benefits from the shock. You should be able to run it out of the box with good results.


Thanks for the response.

Follow up question for you or anyone else who happens to read this. Even after reading the last couple pages of this thread I'm I still uncertain whether or not my current RP23 mounting hardware will work with a new Mcleod. What are the chances it will?


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

According to Dougal, who probably has the most experience, the chance is 50/50. I would just try and if it doesn't fit, you can always order the Manitou set.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Thanks for the response.
> 
> Follow up question for you or anyone else who happens to read this. Even after reading the last couple pages of this thread I'm I still uncertain whether or not my current RP23 mounting hardware will work with a new Mcleod. What are the chances it will?


Fox and Manitou use the same mounting hardware - 15mm eyelets, 12.7mm hardware (1/2"). What you are reading in some of these posts is tolerance issues. If your RP23 has the original 2 piece reducers you would probably be better off buying some modern / new style hardware.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Stahr_Nut said:


> I've tried to scan though a lot of the info in this thread but at 20 pages it has become a bit overwhelming so excuse me if this question has been covered already.
> 
> I'm looking to possibly replace the Fox RP23 on my 2008 Turner Sultan with the TNT rear end. I had the RP23 serviced and tuned by Push 5 or more years ago now and it has been what I'd call okay.
> 
> ...


 I replaced an RP23 on my RIP9 with this shock and it completely changed the way the bike felt in a very good way. Definitely gonna be a big improvement.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Thanks for the response.
> 
> Follow up question for you or anyone else who happens to read this. Even after reading the last couple pages of this thread I'm I still uncertain whether or not my current RP23 mounting hardware will work with a new Mcleod. What are the chances it will?


The hardware from my RP23 fit no problem.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Rngspnr said:


> The hardware from my RP23 fit no problem.


Thanks Keen and Rngspnr.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Go buy a cheap set of feeler gauges to use for shim stock. Cut two pieces just slightly under the the width of one of the igus bushings, so half the width of the eyelet. Install shim between bushing and eyelet bore on the NON-thrust (during compression) side of the bushing. Adjust shim size as necessary to tighten up the bushing and it will ride knock free. A 0.0015" shim should do the trick.

I've got about 20hrs on a McLeod with Fox Igus bushings without problem.

Like Dougal said, this is not a Manitou issue. I too have seen more problems with the eyelet bore tolerance on Fox and RS.


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## martinhutch (Mar 8, 2019)

My McLeod has lost its lockout. Even in the most closed off position, I'm getting 2 or 3cms of travel. Is there a simple procedure to sort this out, or will it need a full ifp service or bleed to fix it? 

The shock is only about six months old. Thanks in advance.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

martinhutch said:


> My McLeod has lost its lockout. Even in the most closed off position, I'm getting 2 or 3cms of travel. Is there a simple procedure to sort this out, or will it need a full ifp service or bleed to fix it?
> 
> The shock is only about six months old. Thanks in advance.


First thing, is the knob loose?
Second is the rebound working?
Third, does it sound squishy?


----------



## martinhutch (Mar 8, 2019)

Knob doesn't seem loose and I think rebound is ok. No squish that I've noticed. What were you thinking it might be.?

EDIT: Checked and degreased this morning. Not loose, rebound is working. Not much difference between the first few IPA detents in terms of travel.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

martinhutch said:


> My McLeod has lost its lockout. Even in the most closed off position, I'm getting 2 or 3cms of travel. Is there a simple procedure to sort this out, or will it need a full ifp service or bleed to fix it?
> 
> The shock is only about six months old. Thanks in advance.


If it's the IFP just send it back to Manitou. They'll fix it under warranty if it's less than a year old.


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## martinhutch (Mar 8, 2019)

I figured that would be the end result - just wanted to check that a) this is likely to be an IFP issue, and b) that I hadn't missed anything obvious.

Thanks for your help.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Silly question. With king can, if set to middle, the diagram on the instructions aren't real clear. Do I put two orings inbetween the two "tabs" that are in the middle?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jdang307 said:


> Silly question. With king can, if set to middle, the diagram on the instructions aren't real clear. Do I put two orings inbetween the two "tabs" that are in the middle?


Yes.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Thank you. 

It might just be in my head, but I'm noticing a lot more pedal strikes with the McLeod. If it's the standard can, the bike only really feels good with lower pressure and then pedal strike. I'm on a small Bronson with 170mm cranks. If I crank up the pressure it doesn't feel right. 

I put a king can on there with full volume. Set to sag 26-30% (I know, Dougal, I know, this was just a test) and it was way too stiff, didn't use more than 75% of my travel on big hits and going faster just to see how much travel I use. Yet I still got pedal strikes with the full can. Is that weird? Didn't have that on the crappy CTD, or at least I didn't notice it. 

These are pedal strikes let's say coming up over a small bump, or in any off-camber section. It is really rocky here in parts of San Diego so pedal strikes there I get. But I'm peddling over smooth terrain just not flat.

So maybe I need to try the middle can? Not sure why I'd still get pedal strikes even with higher pressure.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jdang307 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> It might just be in my head, but I'm noticing a lot more pedal strikes with the McLeod. If it's the standard can, the bike only really feels good with lower pressure and then pedal strike. I'm on a small Bronson with 170mm cranks. If I crank up the pressure it doesn't feel right.
> 
> ...


King Can uses a completely different pressure range to the standard can. So you've got to retune.

More volume means more pressure and higher ride height for the same frequency.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So I just got a McLeod after foolishly destroying a Sr Suntour Duair... That shock was pretty damn good, but no parts avaibility at all, and it's gone so nevermind...
The McLeod is so much more active though, it works much better than my Mattoc with old style seals now, need to upgrade that cause it feels weird having the rear more planted than front lol
Also, the standard air can is less progressive than RS Debonair air can, if anyone wonders, or at least with the same 30% of sag I'm able to use all travel while with RS the last 4mm were impossible to compress.


----------



## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Nope. We have metric eyelet versions available but not yet the Metric Trunnion.
> 
> If you measure up the average Fox you get a different eyelet diameter each end. I can assure you this is not a Manitou specific problem. The McLeod was the first shock I ever found with both ends measuring up the same (i.e. within 0.01mm).
> 
> Try to put RS hardware in a Fox or Fox hardware in a RS and your chances of a good fit are tiny. Shock hardware is a nightmare of tolerance issues and you have a 0.02mm window to get it right.


Right.. but that is my point I have tried other combos and they always worked.. so im just super lucky? just saying owned lots of shocks in last 20 years.. 20 years.. only had this problem with mcleod.

not saying you are wrong but that is my real world experience.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

RWC bearing kit working great here.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Man I wish , I have 2 bearing cages from them both feel too loose. Right now I’m using stock manitou headwear and it’s working great. 

Will say, at least on Hightower, didn’t really see and perceptible benefit from RWC bearing, though I love the concept and In theory they are less of a maintenance issue, but out on the trail.. just couldn’t really feel the difference.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> Right.. but that is my point I have tried other combos and they always worked.. so im just super lucky? just saying owned lots of shocks in last 20 years.. 20 years.. only had this problem with mcleod.
> 
> not saying you are wrong but that is my real world experience.


There are many factors at play. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't. There are also different tolerance DU bushings.

I've had success plugging fox 5 piece hardware straight in, I've also had it loose. I've had success plugging RS pins straight in also. But not always.

DU bushings from different manufacturers can make the same pins tight or loose.
Fox IGUS bushings react to temperature and humidity in ways that makes them shrink or grow. Making the fitment tight or loose. They can also be damaged by prior install/removal in ways that can make them tight or loose.


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Anyone run a McLeod on a Yeti SB4.5? I found it a significant improvement on my SC TBLTc and am now considering one for the SB4.5

The issue I have with the SB.4.5 is getting its climbing sorted. When I run the shock a little “soft” the rear tracks well climbing and doesn’t jump/hop on vertical obstacles. But then I blow through the travel going down. With recommend sag, the rear isn’t as compliant climbing. I’m running a large spacer to help with this but it’s still not making me happy.

I felt that the Mcleod used all of its travel (in a good way) on the TBLTc but I’m concerned it will magnify the issue I have with the stock Fox.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The issue with those low end fox'es is not really that the spring rate is too soft, so you use all the travel for no reason, it's that the damping works almost like a blow off valve- not very plush on small obstacles, and not enough high speed damping on bigger hits, this is my experience. Rock shox is just overdamped by much (for a guy like me, 50kg at least) and it's rebound circuit works like an orifice damper pretty much on medium or higher damping stack.
Afaik Yeti has a very flat leverage ratio so you definitely want the standard can, as for volume spacers it looks like it's capable to take some, but I haven't seen them anywhere. 
I don't know what's up with this shock, but it just feels more stable, with avesome small bump compliance and more poppy at the same time! That's comparing to a RS monarch with very low custom tune (a bit too fast rebound, had to crank it all he way closed) debonair and suntour duair, a fully shimmed shock (no needle damping) with similar design as McLeod.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Steinello said:


> View attachment 1233854


Can some please indicate on the diagram where I would place the spacers required to convert a 190x50 shock to 184x44?

Thanks.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

On the air shaft, where the sponge top out spacer is.


----------



## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

piciu256 said:


> On the air shaft, where the sponge top out spacer is.


Above the orange foam bumper you can see at 1:37 in this video right?






Thanks.


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Above the orange foam bumper you can see at 1:37 in this video right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes above above/on top of the orange top out bumper.

Also the King Can increases the length of the shock by 1.9mm, so the 190 will measure close to 192.


----------



## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

In2falling said:


> Yes above above/on top of the orange top out bumper.
> 
> Also the King Can increases the length of the shock by 1.9mm, so the 190 will measure close to 192.


Thank you!

I swapped out the RP23 on my Turner Sultan for one this winter and my first ride on it this spring was literally an "ah ha, where have you been all my life" moment. Now seeing as the Fox DPS on my Pivot Mach 429 Trail currently isn't holding air pressure I'd like to put one on that bike as well. But it uses a 184x44.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Afaik King can should not increase shock lenght as long as you got the correct one. Not over the supposed lenght at least, 2mm seems to me like too much for the damper shaft (aka it's sitting on the damping piston instead of top out bumper)


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

piciu256 said:


> Afaik King can should not increase shock lenght as long as you got the correct one. Not over the supposed lenght at least, 2mm seems to me like too much for the damper shaft (aka it's sitting on the damping piston instead of top out bumper)


Page 18 of this thread
https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mcleod-rear-shock-956836-18.html


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

There is nothing on this page about increasing shock lenght over what it should be. Moreover, on this page the king can wasn't released yet if I understood correctly.


----------



## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I swapped out the RP23 on my Turner Sultan for one this winter and my first ride on it this spring was literally an "ah ha, where have you been all my life" moment. Now seeing as the Fox DPS on my Pivot Mach 429 Trail currently isn't holding air pressure I'd like to put one on that bike as well. But it uses a 184x44.


My Evil following uses a 184x44 also. You can get the 190x50 and contact Manitou and they'll send you the 6mm reducer as well as a volume spacer. Shock is awesome on my Following way more active and lively than the Monarch Debonair.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Rngspnr said:


> My Evil following uses a 184x44 also. You can get the 190x50 and contact Manitou and they'll send you the 6mm reducer as well as a volume spacer. Shock is awesome on my Following way more active and lively than the Monarch Debonair.


Thanks. Procuring the shock and spacers is not an issue. I was just making sure I properly understood where to install the spacers in the shock.


----------



## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

seamarsh said:


> Man I wish , I have 2 bearing cages from them both feel too loose. Right now I'm using stock manitou headwear and it's working great.
> 
> Will say, at least on Hightower, didn't really see and perceptible benefit from RWC bearing, though I love the concept and In theory they are less of a maintenance issue, but out on the trail.. just couldn't really feel the difference.


Yeah it works fine on my Bronson v1 even if it was super easy to slip in. But I also couldn't tell the difference  Maybe it's one of those things where you don't notice it when you put it in, but will notice if you take it out.


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## jc450 (Aug 29, 2011)

Hello! I've installed the McLeod on a Specialized Epic Comp replacing a dead brain which Spesh no longer services. I like the shock but cannot get it to go full travel, I'm 100 kg r2r and have gone up to 30% sag only achieving about 75% travel. Taking all air out it runs cleanly through to full compression so nothing is binding it up.

Shock is new about 5 rides or so, with the old brain shock full travel was easily achieved with similar sag. IPA lever in active modes doesn't seem to have much effect on travel. Any ideas?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Thanks. Procuring the shock and spacers is not an issue. I was just making sure I properly understood where to install the spacers in the shock.


When you take the can off, the spacer goes over the main shaft/body under the bottom out bumper and the volume reducer just slips into the top of the shock above the piston. Takes longer to get the can off and on then it does the install spacer and reducer.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jc450 said:


> Hello! I've installed the McLeod on a Specialized Epic Comp replacing a dead brain which Spesh no longer services. I like the shock but cannot get it to go full travel, I'm 100 kg r2r and have gone up to 30% sag only achieving about 75% travel. Taking all air out it runs cleanly through to full compression so nothing is binding it up.
> 
> Shock is new about 5 rides or so, with the old brain shock full travel was easily achieved with similar sag. IPA lever in active modes doesn't seem to have much effect on travel. Any ideas?


I haven't looked at your frame leverage curve, but you probably need a king can, likely in the mid volume setting.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Just installed a new McLeod shock in a 2015 Banshee Phantom. Stock rear travel is 105mm using a 184x44mm shock. Guys on the Banshee forum are up-shocking the Phantom using a 190x50mm, giving it close to 120mm travel. So that's what I did.

Ended up at around 105psi to get sag around 25%. I set the sag with IPA fully open.

I had my first ride last night and wow! This shock is so plush compared to my CC DB iL. Now part of that is because I started my ride on a root-littered rough trail and I had the IPA fully open. The rear wheel just sticks to the ground, it's amazing. I always thought that since the Phantom is a short travel bike I would have to deal with a rough ride, but not so.

I played around with the IPA lever during the whole ride to find the sweet spot for pedaling efficiency, and ultimately used 2 or 3 the most. I'll probably add a remote lever as it seems useful to me to switch on the fly.

I only hit one small drop of about 3 feet and seemed to use almost all the travel, but no bottom out was felt. I'm a little concerned about blowing through all the travel on bigger hits, but I can always up my air pressure a little, or leave it in #2 IPA setting.

Happy so far!


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## jc450 (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks for the quick reply. This appears to be the leverage ratio for my bike, I would assume the increasing leverage at the end of the wheel travel would be an indication of the performance on my bike. Besides the king can what additional adjustments would be recommended to match this setup?


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

If you look at both Specialized leverage ratio curves, they are essentially linear due to such a small variation over the travel range ([email protected] vs [email protected] : 10%). Titus changes from 2.65 to <2. If you can't get full compression with standard can, King Can should help


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## jc450 (Aug 29, 2011)

ibis315 said:


> If you look at both Specialized leverage ratio curves, they are essentially linear due to such a small variation over the travel range ([email protected] vs [email protected] : 10%). Titus changes from 2.65 to <2. If you can't get full compression with standard can, King Can should help


Thanks! Interesting because I observe the travel essentially "stops" right where the curve increases at about 60-70%, although as you mention the overall curve is pretty linear and overall leverage is pretty low. In my experience so far, to get more travel I have to reduce the pressure to the point that shock is bobbing badly in mid stroke and it feels too low for my weight (110psi for a 100kg rider). I would think the potential solution is to increase pressure to decrease sag, and go to higher volume to get full travel as mullen suggested.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

@jc450

That is essentially a flat curve, slightly regressive.

Keep in mind that how much travel you need/use is dependent on how you ride the bike and what type of trail features you are hitting. Only using 75% of your travel could be totally acceptable. Don't assume something is wrong. This could very well be to the fact that the McLeod has better damping support, which it absolutely does.

I would not recommend buying a King can.

Adjust your sag for proper ride height, work on dialing in the rebound, then experiement with different Ipa settings. And . . . cut your travel indicator off the shock.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jc450 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. This appears to be the leverage ratio for my bike, I would assume the increasing leverage at the end of the wheel travel would be an indication of the performance on my bike. Besides the king can what additional adjustments would be recommended to match this setup?
> 
> View attachment 1247333


That curve is pretty much linear, so I wouldn't go to a king can. Not using full travel is not inherently bad like most people think, it's very possible that that the trail just doesn't require you to use full travel.

I would keep riding and get a larger sample size before spending the money on a king can as it shouldn't be needed. Do you have jumps/drops on your rides? Do you consider yourself a aggressive rider or do you like to keep both wheels on the ground at all times?


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## jc450 (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks to those that replied with hints and tips. I race this bike masters in the midwest mainly single track with roots and some rocks and 2-3 ft drops, consider myself a pretty aggressive rider. I liked the brain but it was a maintenance nightmare and finally could not be repaired. It had minimal pedal rock and helped with my endurance in longer races vs my hardtails. I'm starting to wonder if this shock is not working properly, it squeaks all the time and there's a little more oil on the stanchion than I would expect. I will keep experimenting and post back later on results.

jc450


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Having a hard time deciding between buying this shock and sending out the Float Evol that came on my 17 Primer to Avalanche. Price either way is nearly the same if I sell the Fox after getting the Manitou.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

DPS Evol I assume? Never liked the damping on this shock. Air spring wise, I could choose between compliance or bit hit capability (although to be fair, this was partially caused by the lineair high leverage ratio of my frame). Square edge hits always spiked. 
I much prefer the McLeod. It's not perfect yet, but without careful tuning it's already miles better than the DPS ever was.
Whether Avalanche achieves an even greater improvement, I can't say. However, the McLeod is a safe choice.
If I had to guess, I would assume Avalanche optimises for downhill (based on the things I've read) while a McLeod is more of an all-round shock. It might be a good idea to base your choice on the type of riding you do.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

kan3 said:


> Having a hard time deciding between buying this shock and sending out the Float Evol that came on my 17 Primer to Avalanche. Price either way is nearly the same if I sell the Fox after getting the Manitou.


I have two FS bikes, first one is a 2018 Pivot Mach 429 Trail and the second one is a 2008 Turner Sultan. The Turner came with a Fox RP23 that I had PUSH tuned but now has a McLeod on it. The Pivot came with a Fox DPS Evol that I rode for a bit and then sent off to Avalanche to have it converted to their SSD/HSB system.

Granted not all these shocks are on the same frame so take this for what its worth but from that selection my order of preference from best to worst is McLeod, Avalanche converted DPS Evol, PUSH tuned RP23, stock DPS Evol then stock RP23. And having said that I'll tell you I currently have a McLeod on it's way to me for my Pivot.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Went ahead and bought a Mcleod a few minutes ago.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

kan3 said:


> Went ahead and bought a Mcleod a few minutes ago.


I debated this too. I had a crappy Fox Float CTD that comes stock on the Bronson C S from 2015. Someone said send it to Avalanche and have it tricked out and it'll be the best shock money can buy. But then, 6 months to a year later, and you have to pay someone to rebuild it, as I don't think we can do so at home? Went with the Mcleod. Plus with Mullen's tuning thread, and Manitou totally sending free stuff to owners who ask, what can I complain about?

Now I'm just afraid to open the whole thing up to get to the piston and shims, but one day I'll get there and just open the damn thing


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Manitou mayby does send free stuff, but seems like only in 'Murica :/ Sent them an email 2 weeks ago, still no response. As always the Polish distribution center doesn't give a....


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Stahr_Nut said:


> I have two FS bikes, first one is a 2018 Pivot Mach 429 Trail and the second one is a 2008 Turner Sultan. The Turner came with a Fox RP23 that I had PUSH tuned but now has a McLeod on it. The Pivot came with a Fox DPS Evol that I rode for a bit and then sent off to Avalanche to have it converted to their SSD/HSB system.
> 
> Granted not all these shocks are on the same frame so take this for what its worth but from that selection my order of preference from best to worst is McLeod, Avalanche converted DPS Evol, PUSH tuned RP23, stock DPS Evol then stock RP23. And having said that I'll tell you I currently have a McLeod on it's way to me for my Pivot.


stock Mcleod rated better than Avalanche DPS. High praise! That's awesome.

Can't wait for Manitou's piggy-back shock to come out.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

FactoryMatt said:


> stock Mcleod rated better than Avalanche DPS. High praise! That's awesome.
> 
> Can't wait for Manitou's piggy-back shock to come out.


As a Grom Dad looking at Commencals Clash Kids bike (uses a McLeod) this is extra cool in that the McLeod comes with the first ever kids tune for a large market OEM and not just a light ladies tune. That plus their new J-unit stuff is awesome for the grom scene. Good to hear that the McLeod is pretty awesome, that was kind of an under the radar move for them that was publicized like the new forks were.


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## Jyfly (Jan 30, 2019)

I have a 200x50 with two rides in the classifieds. If anyone is interested let me know.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Jyfly said:


> I have a 200x50 with two rides in the classifieds. If anyone is interested let me know.


Dang, I just bought a new 200x50 for my wife's bike a little bit ago. Should have waited.


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## jc450 (Aug 29, 2011)

I went ahead and installed the increased volume can, and problem is solved. I can run the correct sag and use full travel on the shock running hard on a trail typical of the courses I run. Feels much better, not as harsh and very little pedal bob climbing. Thanks to all for the help.

jc450


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

svinyard said:


> As a Grom Dad looking at Commencals Clash Kids bike (uses a McLeod) this is extra cool in that the McLeod comes with the first ever kids tune for a large market OEM and not just a light ladies tune. That plus their new J-unit stuff is awesome for the grom scene. Good to hear that the McLeod is pretty awesome, that was kind of an under the radar move for them that was publicized like the new forks were.


So that is the "McLeod Nino". Which is a standard McLeod but a kids specific tune (depends on bike as well as kid obviously).
It sounds like Manitou will make that tuning info available.


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## Nicolo38 (Apr 16, 2008)

I have a MCLeod 200x50mm version on my Intense Primer : anyone knows if travel can be modified to 57mm easily ?


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Nope, 200x50 is based on 190x50, 200x57 is a totally different shock, I personally bought the 200x57 and lowered it to 193x50 for future proofing


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## Nicolo38 (Apr 16, 2008)

piciu256 said:


> Nope, 200x50 is based on 190x50, 200x57 is a totally different shock, I personally bought the 200x57 and lowered it to 193x50 for future proofing


Thanks, so I'll keep it as it is...


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

piciu256 said:


> Manitou mayby does send free stuff, but seems like only in 'Murica :/ Sent them an email 2 weeks ago, still no response. As always the Polish distribution center doesn't give a....


Yeah can't comment on that. Out here they've responded fairly quickly usually in a day or two. They sent me some sticks, parts and some shims free.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Got the shock and finally installed it yesterday. RWC bearing just falls through the bore on both sides and the Fox IGUS bushings just fall in as well. But then the pins are too tight on the supplied Mcleod DU bushings. I did not win the lottery it seems.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

kan3 said:


> Got the shock and finally installed it yesterday. RWC bearing just falls through the bore on both sides and the Fox IGUS bushings just fall in as well. But then the pins are too tight on the supplied Mcleod DU bushings. I did not win the lottery it seems.


measure the bore with calipers. curious how far off it is.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Replying to the thread to answer my own question from earlier. The Mcleod works great on the Yeti SB4.5c. It took some tuning, but I now have that sweet spot where the rear articulates smoothly up square edges when climbing. The bike also feels better descending. It's pretty clear the rear tire is following the terrain. There doesn't seem to be a need for volume spacers (which I couldn't get right on the Fox). The difference between the Mcleod and my factory DPS isn't as great as on the last bike I upgraded but it's still a nice upgrade.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Y’all sold me on Manitou forks after reading these threads a few years back when I was ready to upgrade on my first modern HT and I still feel my Minute Pro is a beast! Now I have my first FS, has a Fox Rhythm 34 with DPS shock and i’ve been content... that is until I noticed this thread on the McLeod which now has me thinking, why might I need a McLeod shock, what will it do for me, I don’t NEED one do I?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Heist30 said:


> Y'all sold me on Manitou forks after reading these threads a few years back when I was ready to upgrade on my first modern HT and I still feel my Minute Pro is a beast! Now I have my first FS, has a Fox Rhythm 34 with DPS shock and i've been content... that is until I noticed this thread on the McLeod which now has me thinking, why might I need a McLeod shock, what will it do for me, I don't NEED one do I?


Nobody NEEDS to upgrade parts unless they break or they feel its holding them back. You could very easily ride what you have and be very happy and content.

In my ( biased) opinion, the McLeod is the best damped inline shock on the market. It allows the wheel to track the ground while remaining supple, yet supportive throughout the stroke. It's a great shock.

I don't know if I would upgrade though, if you do, your rear will out perform your fork and make you want a new fork to match as well.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Thanks, that’s what I needed to hear...I may only NEED a McLeod as a reason to get the Mezzer! d;o)

Main reason I was looking is many YT riders are switching to coil shocks to better match the progressive geometry.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

Thinking about a McLeod for a 2019 Stumpjumper LT. But it takes a 210x50 metric shock and can't seem to find one available anywhere (it's listed on Manitou's website as an available size).

Anybody have insight on when these metric McLeod's will be available?

Also, any experience with a McLeod on the previous Stumpjumpers?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kartracer said:


> Thinking about a McLeod for a 2019 Stumpjumper LT. But it takes a 210x50 metric shock and can't seem to find one available anywhere (it's listed on Manitou's website as an available size).
> 
> Anybody have insight on when these metric McLeod's will be available?
> 
> Also, any experience with a McLeod on the previous Stumpjumpers?


They are available, We have sold 210x55 and easy to reduce stroke to 50mm: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-metric-eyelet-210-x-55-mm-manitou.html


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Lost the manual for the king can and can’t Find one online. King can is set to full size. One oring up top and bottom. I know to set mid volume I need to put two black orings in the middle (I think). 

But are the two existing rings left on there? I’m assuming yes. 

They also sent me a white plastic ring not sure what that is for?

EDIT: Nevermind, went through my old emails with support and they sent me the king can manual before I purchased it. So it's 4 rings for medium volume.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Dougal said:


> They are available, We have sold 210x55 and easy to reduce stroke to 50mm: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-metric-eyelet-210-x-55-mm-manitou.html


dumb question, but is the IFP pressure lower on a 210x55 than on a 200x57? is there more volume to work with?

thanks!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FactoryMatt said:


> dumb question, but is the IFP pressure lower on a 210x55 than on a 200x57? is there more volume to work with?
> 
> thanks!


No. The IFP pressure is there to prevent cavitation and keep positive pressure on the main shaft seal. The biggest factor involved is how much damping force you can create.

The volume of the IFP chamber doesn't matter as it's all about starting pressure.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

i see. i assumed more volume (if it existed) would allow lower pressure without cavitation and contribute to a more supple, linear stroke.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I see this misconception a lot, larger volume of air chamber doesn't give you lower pressure for the same force, it's the area of the piston that matters, that's why larger volume tires can go with less pressure- there is more sidewall, so even though the force per mm^2 is the same at given pressure, you can run less pressure because there is more tire. It's basic physics guys...


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

good to know, thanks.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I can't help but wonder if my bike would work well with the king can, is it progressive enough for the middle setting? Is someone able to tell me by looking at the leverage rate: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w7OExZKGq...0/Kross+Soil+27.5%27%27+Low+2016_LevRatio.gif ? (Kross Soil, somewhere between high and low as I'm running 194x50mm instead of 190x50)
Also, since my shock is lowered with a volume spacer (oring) inside the negative chamber, I wonder if putting the 190x50mm one would make it so I don't need to use a spacer? Does anyone know the dimensions of different cans? I saw 200x57 posted here if I recall correctly, that's what I have. 
Beofre you ask- I put too long shock and shortened it because my rear triangle booster hit the seat tube 2mm before bottom out before (great polish engineering...) and I wanted a little more future proofing, having 2 shock sizes with the same shock means more probability that it's gonna fit my new bike if I decide to upgrade (don't see such need yet) and with offset bushings I can get the proper lenght.

At the moment, with standard can I can use almost the whole travel, but I'm stopping on the bottom out spacer, not compressing it at all, this happens only on harsh (or big) landings which I like, don't know how much less progressive the king can is, or could I get similar end stroke support with more mid stroke support with it?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> Lost the manual for the king can and can't Find one online. King can is set to full size. One oring up top and bottom. I know to set mid volume I need to put two black orings in the middle (I think).
> 
> But are the two existing rings left on there? I'm assuming yes.
> 
> ...


The white plastic ring you mention goes in the middle under the mid volume o-ring, not 2 o-rings in the center.


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## biffhamilton (Jun 15, 2009)

Can this shock be purchased with a two position lockout?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

biffhamilton said:


> Can this shock be purchased with a two position lockout?


Yes. There's a remote kit with return spring that makes it an on/off from open compression to full compression: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-remote-conversion-kit-manitou.html


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

So, any indications on about how long it'll be before the McLeod gets the "soft head" or "squishy head" or "rubber wrapped" IFP?


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You mean... What?!? 
Sorry, don't understand your question, what do you mean?


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

The Mara is getting a IFP that is a metal ring with a rubber head or face produced by SKF. The idea being the rubber head flexes a little bit, allowing for more sensitivity in the initial stroke of the shock.

Mentioned here.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Oh, I get it now, can't see it making much of a difference with the frame leverage and piston shaft to IFP area ratio but mayby it does something, and not just a nicely looking marketing thing 
I wouldn't be surprised if the Mara IFP actually fits inside McLeod, but it's quite a bit of time before release so I guess we won't see any spare parts soon.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Mara IFP is 12mm vs the 10mm McLeods.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Mara damper shaft is 12mm vs the McLeod 10mm shaft. Ifp's are the same size.

The Mara ifp will work in metric McLeods, but not the older imperial sizes. There isn't enough room in the shock body.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Neato. Thats for the clarification.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

First ride on the Mcleod today. It did everything better than the DPS Evol that was on the bike. Single larger rock/root, long sections of smaller rocks/roots, g out style sections, jumps and just overall comfort. 

I tested position 2 and 3 over the ride. I could easily ride most of the trails I ride on in position because it's still performs better than the DPS everywhere and is more comfortable. I'll have test a bit more to see if 3 is needed or if position 2 is fine overall. Rebound was 1/16 T out from stock setting and performed about right on the 115psi I used. Will test a bit more on that over the next few rides.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> The white plastic ring you mention goes in the middle under the mid volume o-ring, not 2 o-rings in the center.
> 
> View attachment 1250316


Thanks! Good thing i didn't do it yet.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

kan3 said:


> First ride on the Mcleod today. It did everything better than the DPS Evol that was on the bike. Single larger rock/root, long sections of smaller rocks/roots, g out style sections, jumps and just overall comfort.
> 
> I tested position 2 and 3 over the ride. *I could easily ride most of the trails I ride on in position *because it's still performs better than the DPS everywhere and is more comfortable. I'll have test a bit more to see if 3 is needed or if position 2 is fine overall. Rebound was 1/16 T out from stock setting and performed about right on the 115psi I used. Will test a bit more on that over the next few rides.


Curious ... what frame do you have?
Which position was it you could ride most of the trails in ... 2 or 3?

I just bought a new-to-me 2019 Stumpjumper and will be getting a McLeod. Made the decision after reading this entire thread and having a few phone calls with one of the Manitou engineers (can't think of another suspension company where I can do that).


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

kartracer said:


> Curious ... what frame do you have?
> Which position was it you could ride most of the trails in ... 2 or 3?
> 
> I just bought a new-to-me 2019 Stumpjumper and will be getting a McLeod. Made the decision after reading this entire thread and having a few phone calls with one of the Manitou engineers (can't think of another suspension company where I can do that).


Sorry, that was suppose to say position 3. Frame is an Intense Primer.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Guy.Ford said:


> Curious, have a couple of questions about this shock.
> 
> 1) is there a more informative manual than this? https://manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/08/Shock-Manual-McLeod-Insert-web.pdf
> 
> ...


Have had Mcleods on 3 different bikes now and a heavy rider 205lbs.

Majority of the time I ride in setting 1 (wide open) and will switch to setting 3 (2 clicks) sometimes when I have a long climb. Setting 3 (2 clicks) is noticeable increase in platform but still has smooth movement and good for long climbs.

Setting 2 (1 click) adds just a touch of firmness/platform (yes for heavier riders). You can notice it, but not a whole lot. I would probably use it as default setting if I was running lower PSI/sag.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

In2falling said:


> Have had Mcleods on 3 different bikes now and a heavy rider 205lbs.
> 
> Majority of the time I ride in setting 1 (wide open) and will switch to setting 3 (2 clicks) sometimes when I have a long climb. Setting 3 (2 clicks) is noticeable increase in platform but still has smooth movement and good for long climbs.
> 
> Setting 2 (1 click) adds just a touch of firmness/platform (yes for heavier riders). You can notice it, but not a whole lot. I would probably use it as default setting if I was running lower PSI/sag.


That's what i do, IPA setting 2 for everything except fireroads. I'm 80 kg.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Need a grey can sticker for this thing. My bike is yellow/grey/black....the red looks out of place.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I've put all our McLeod info in one place to make finding parts easier:

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/service/model-specific-service-tune/manitou-mcleod


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## phrider (Jul 1, 2016)

kan3 said:


> Need a grey can sticker for this thing. My bike is yellow/grey/black....the red looks out of place.


I see some shocks that have grey lettering but it appears to be etched. It seems like the metric sizes are grey and the standard are red. Manitou never responded to me when I asked . . .


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

phrider said:


> I see some shocks that have grey lettering but it appears to be etched. It seems like the metric sizes are grey and the standard are red. Manitou never responded to me when I asked . . .


I'll probably call them tomorrow and ask. If they can't get me the sticker, I already planned on taking the sticker off the shock. I'll just take it to the design company next to me, have them scan it and I'll do some edits in Photoshop and have them print me a new one.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

phrider said:


> I see some shocks that have grey lettering but it appears to be etched. It seems like the metric sizes are grey and the standard are red. Manitou never responded to me when I asked . . .


OEM shocks can be produced with whatever colours the bike manufacturer wants. But they are a special run with the stickers not available afterwards.

There is a grey stealth sticker option somewhere. I'll see if I can get details.

*edit*
It looks like the stickers are size (length) specific and also king-can or std-can specific. So there's a lot of different options.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

hit up STIKRD. they might have the templates.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

FactoryMatt said:


> hit up STIKRD. they might have the templates.


They should. I had them make me a teal sticker to match my bike when I had the McLeod in back.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> The white plastic ring you mention goes in the middle under the mid volume o-ring, not 2 o-rings in the center.
> 
> View attachment 1250316


I did this initially but when trying to remove the king can, I couldn't get it back off as the white ring jammed it in place. Spent a good bit of time getting the damn can back off the shock. From that point forward, I used two o-rings instead of the white ring.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

phrider said:


> I see some shocks that have grey lettering but it appears to be etched. It seems like the metric sizes are grey and the standard are red. Manitou never responded to me when I asked . . .


I can confirm that, I just recieved a metric 190x45 that I ordered directly from the Hayes/Manitou website, and it does indeed have the grey logo sticker. My other McLeods are not metric, and have the red logo. They were ordered last year from Wiggle and Bike-Discount. This one also feels better screwed together than the others, the IPA and rebound adjusters feel better and the IPA positions are spot on. I needed to adjust them on the older ones with the set screws.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

When I asked about shims and yellow piston they sent me a bunch of stickers. I wonder if gray was in there


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

So I tried calling Manitou multiple times last week and this week at 888.686.3472. Never had anyone pickup the phone or call me back after leaving a message. I submitted a web form inquiry yesterday morning but haven't gotten anything back yet. I also tried calling the couple of service places linked in their FAQ to see if they had the stock stickers which they did not. I guess I'll just take it off and follow my original plan. 

Rant*
I find it amazing that a company of this size never manages to pickup their phone. I have 152 employees as of today who work for me at multiple locations. If I found out they weren't answering their phones, there would be 1 warning. I'm not sure why this company can't manage to source a free intern to sit behind a desk and pickup the phone to route calls. I spent over $6000 this week alone buying replacement parts and new equipment from 5 differen't companies and they all managed to pickup their phones.
Rant*


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

yea. i did a webform and got a voicemail 1-2 days later. was a very competent voicemail, but very strange how understaffed they seem to be.

to get the shock i wanted, i went through TreeFort Bikes, and they were able to get things sorted within a week. i'd try going through a dealer as much of a PITA as it is. 

their new product manager seems great and Nick is great. I hope they're able to staff up sooner rather than later.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

The pattern seems to be that if you send a web form message or email, it will usually take a day or two to get a reply, and once you get a conversation going it is sometimes quicker but sometimes the next day for replies. Overall the service was very good, just not super quick. Their web store was very fast, the McLeod I ordered through the Hayes/Manitou site showed up 2 days later.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

If I were you, I wouldn't change the whole stickers, as it's a pita to do it properly, I would just make a template to blacken out the inside of the letters so as only the outline is still red, like the metric size McLeod has https://www.universalcycles.com/images//products/large/96448.jpg


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Pretty sure I know the answers to all my questions, but just wanted confirmation online before proceeding.

Bike - Knolly Endorphin - Mattoc (original, not 2 or boost) that is superb with IRT / upgraded seals etc. currently has a Fox Float DPS Evol - I chose that shock a few years back as I wanted something that worked and didnt take a bunch of tuning due to having two really young kids and only riding once every few weeks.

fast forward to now, I am able to get time to do two or three rides a week. The Mattoc on the front is massively better then the DPS on the rear. Rear is either skipping/hopping on stuff if I have higher pressures, and wallowing on climbs if I lower the pressure.

So I figure I should give a shot at the mcleod in the 190 x 50 mode. Being in Canada there is virtually nowhere to get it here, so I have no problem ordering online /overseas (two of the three local bike shops said " we thought manitou was out of business" when I inquired about pricing). So I do not want my LBS support on this.

King can - Probably needed for my frame, but I will try the stock can first to see if it meets my needs. But maybe I should just order both together to save multiple shipping costs?

mounting hardware - either purchase manitou hardware, or purchase the shock through Shockcraft and beg Dougal to make me his fancy custom fit hardware.

Am I missing anything on my thought process?

Thanks!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

006_007 said:


> Pretty sure I know the answers to all my questions, but just wanted confirmation online before proceeding.
> 
> Bike - Knolly Endorphin - Mattoc (original, not 2 or boost) that is superb with IRT / upgraded seals etc. currently has a Fox Float DPS Evol - I chose that shock a few years back as I wanted something that worked and didnt take a bunch of tuning due to having two really young kids and only riding once every few weeks.
> 
> ...


Well, you can purchase fox hardware, but that's a crap-shoot, most of the manitou mcleods appear to be slightly bigger than most of the fox hardware, so it's either loose of there's play, but it does work on some. The bushings fit in real nice on mine, but the axle goes in too easy, haven't bolted it up yet, but it's possible there'll be some play and I won't be able to use it. This seems to be most people's experience. I got some spacers online and will reduce the travel in the next few days so I can get it bolted up. I was hugely disappointed with the MILO, for lacking one of the required bolts and a lot of little features that would greatly improve the installation/usage. Still, it works as advertised.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Well, you can purchase fox hardware, but that's a crap-shoot, most of the manitou mcleods appear to be slightly bigger than most of the fox hardware, so it's either loose of there's play, but it does work on some. The bushings fit in real nice on mine, but the axle goes in too easy, haven't bolted it up yet, but it's possible there'll be some play and I won't be able to use it. This seems to be most people's experience. I got some spacers online and will reduce the travel in the next few days so I can get it bolted up. I was hugely disappointed with the MILO, for lacking one of the required bolts and a lot of little features that would greatly improve the installation/usage. Still, it works as advertised.


So purchase the manitou hardware and not participate in the crap shoot. check.

The Milo isnt really of any interest to me - I dont want an extra remote and as you can probably guess by my limited riding in the last few years and just now getting some time to ride 1-2 times a week I am not gonna ever be any catagory of XC racer or strava chaser, so I can just reach down and adjust the lever manually comfortable in the knowledge that I has lost a few seconds of time!


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## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Would the McLeod be an upgrade from a 2016 Fox Float DPS Performance EVOL?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)




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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

I bought Rockshox hardware and it worked fine.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Support got back with me on the sticker. They do not stock the stickers. They did send me the sticker files though. Here are the links if anyone wants them. I think I'll have a yellow and grey version printed to see which one looks better with my Primer frame.

PSD - https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fs79b8ex7d31b2/29-33735-G002_RA.psd?dl=0

PDF - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ks073nec5alaivh/29-33735-G002_RA.pdf?dl=0

AI - https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtt84n78le7r5kx/29-33735-G002_RA.ai?dl=0


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Personally, I think all-black shocks look kinda cool without stickers.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Well, the MILO is pretty disappointing so far. I got it mounted up and functioning, but it appears there are only two settings, 1, which is full open, which I assume is "blow through the travel" setting, and fully locked. I was hoping it would be incremental. What is so hard about making these compatable with good ole thumbie shifters? Then you could select whatever setting you want. The settings in between full open and fully locked would likely be useful for someone pushing hard. 

The remote comes with brake housing with housing ends crimped, so that you have to trash at least one of them because they are not removable. Remote doesn't have a hinge, so you get to take your grips off. Takes a lot of torque to make it not rotate when actuating, because it's so skinny (little clamping area), used some fiber grease to help give some traction, that helped. Cable won't go through the remote without taking the barrel adjuster off, minor inconvenience. 

And an important 2mm screw was missing from the package. I was lucky on that one because I had an extra, but overall, this does not seem well thought out. I'm probably going to go on the hunt for a thumbie shifter that I can use to get the actual range of the adjuster, rather than full-blow and full-lock.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Well, the MILO is pretty disappointing so far. I got it mounted up and functioning, but it appears there are only two settings, 1, which is full open, which I assume is "blow through the travel" setting, and fully locked. I was hoping it would be incremental. What is so hard about making these compatable with good ole thumbie shifters? Then you could select whatever setting you want. The settings in between full open and fully locked would likely be useful for someone pushing hard.
> 
> The remote comes with brake housing with housing ends crimped, so that you have to trash at least one of them because they are not removable. Remote doesn't have a hinge, so you get to take your grips off. Takes a lot of torque to make it not rotate when actuating, because it's so skinny (little clamping area), used some fiber grease to help give some traction, that helped. Cable won't go through the remote without taking the barrel adjuster off, minor inconvenience.
> 
> And an important 2mm screw was missing from the package. I was lucky on that one because I had an extra, but overall, this does not seem well thought out. I'm probably going to go on the hunt for a thumbie shifter that I can use to get the actual range of the adjuster, rather than full-blow and full-lock.


Ya, Dougal has suggested multiple times throughout this thread that a friction shifter is the solution for those wanting more then the two settings.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Got my new OIZ running the McLeod and I keep thinking about installing a remote lock out. Then I ride my bike on Setting #2 or #3 and keep realizing I just don't need it.

I finally have my bike dialed in and I'm not going down that route. And, if it's just fully open or fully closed, I'm not going to bother.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Well, the MILO is pretty disappointing so far. I got it mounted up and functioning, but it appears there are only two settings, 1, which is full open, which I assume is "blow through the travel" setting, and fully locked. I was hoping it would be incremental. What is so hard about making these compatable with good ole thumbie shifters? Then you could select whatever setting you want. The settings in between full open and fully locked would likely be useful for someone pushing hard.
> 
> The remote comes with brake housing with housing ends crimped, so that you have to trash at least one of them because they are not removable. Remote doesn't have a hinge, so you get to take your grips off. Takes a lot of torque to make it not rotate when actuating, because it's so skinny (little clamping area), used some fiber grease to help give some traction, that helped. Cable won't go through the remote without taking the barrel adjuster off, minor inconvenience.
> 
> And an important 2mm screw was missing from the package. I was lucky on that one because I had an extra, but overall, this does not seem well thought out. I'm probably going to go on the hunt for a thumbie shifter that I can use to get the actual range of the adjuster, rather than full-blow and full-lock.


The MILO remote is only for those wanting locked/unlocked. But IMO the shock has enough compression damping and support that very few would need or want a lockout.

They don't have a "blow through travel" setting. I'm interested to hear what you think of it.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

Jayem said:


> Well, the MILO is pretty disappointing so far. I got it mounted up and functioning, but it appears there are only two settings, 1, which is full open, which I assume is "blow through the travel" setting, and fully locked. I was hoping it would be incremental. What is so hard about making these compatable with good ole thumbie shifters? Then you could select whatever setting you want. The settings in between full open and fully locked would likely be useful for someone pushing hard.
> [...] I'm probably going to go on the hunt for a thumbie shifter that I can use to get the actual range of the adjuster, rather than full-blow and full-lock.


I'm looking at the Cane Creek OPT remote. It's similar functionally to a thumbie shifter in that it's infinitely adjustable anywhere you want to run the setting. I checked with Cane Creek and the OPT has 23mm of cable pull ... 4-5mm more than what's needed so it will move the IPA between the full range.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kartracer said:


> I'm looking at the Cane Creek OPT remote. It's similar functionally to a thumbie shifter in that it's infinitely adjustable anywhere you want to run the setting. I checked with Cane Creek and the OPT has 23mm of cable pull ... 4-5mm more than what's needed so it will move the IPA between the full range.
> View attachment 1252835
> 
> View attachment 1252836


Nice find, I rigged up a cheap suntour to see if it would work, but in the meantime I'm looking for better long term solutions, like higher end thumbies. If that does what you say, it sounds like a good option.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> The MILO remote is only for those wanting locked/unlocked. But IMO the shock has enough compression damping and support that very few would need or want a lockout.
> 
> They don't have a "blow through travel" setting. I'm interested to hear what you think of it.


You may not do much racing, but yes, you want to have full lockouts and saving just a fraction of a watt can win races. It's literally fractions of seconds after a few hours of riding hard between riders. And more than that, I would want the ability to go "in between" and utilize the more platform-y settings for parts of the trail that weren't too chunky. It seems like this would have been easy to design. IME, anyone that is racing high expert/pro XC wants a lockout, because even the efficient shock and bike combos will not transfer power like a lockout while you are wildly pedaling as happens during racing.

That said, the open setting seems decent, it doesn't seem too wallowy, although on some sections of the trail it seemed like IPA 1 was a little more controlled. Playing with the rebound, it seems that I can't run more than a quarter turn, otherwise it starts to pack. Getting 1.5" out of 1.77 or so (my spacers leave me with 1mm more than stock stroke), which is decent, I may play with the pressure a little more, as there were some doubles and jumps that were hit and I may be able to use just a tiny bit more travel. I think the pressure is at about 120-125 or so, having let it out from 150 over the first few miles.

So far it's "not bad", there's a little play in there due to the hardware, so that may be affecting it a bit, I have some new hardware coming that I plan to run, so this is interim, like the thumbie remote. I still have some tuning to do obviously for air pressure, which will affect everything else.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Hey Jayem, is this on your RFX? Replacing an Avalanche tuned shock?


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## scandy1 (May 2, 2016)

I’m trying to decide between this and the DB Air IL, anyone ridden both? I like the 4 way adjustment of the DB, it’s going on a short travel, 110 travel bike, so want something that’s really efficient with using its travel, as in not blowing through it unnecessarily etc, good small bump compliance, and ability to get decent ramp up at the end of its travel. 

The remote on the DB is a plus.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Vespasianus said:


> Hey Jayem, is this on your RFX? Replacing an Avalanche tuned shock?


Not just no, but hell no. I might pick up another air shock for my RFX at some point in the future, but it sure as heck won't be an XC shock like this. This is definitely an XC shock, especially with the limited tuning options. I think there's some literature somewhere that says "enduro", but that only goes as far as paper IMO. As an XC shock, it doesn't seem bad though. I'm way addicted to the tuned RC4 on the RFX and it's not coming off any time soon.

It's also entirely possible that the mcleod is better than the stock monarch that comes on the RFX, but the stock monarch is so inadequate for that bike that it's not really worth discussing much. Ditching that was a huge upgrade.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I wouldn't call it an enduro shock either, just for the fact it's not beefy enough alone, but it sure as hell isn't an XC shock, it doesn't have a real lock out for one, secondly- it's definitely tuned to be more of a trail/AM shock, doesn't mean it's not good for XC, but general trail riding is what it excels at imo, at least compared to what "xc" shocks are supposed to be by rock shox etc. aka platform for energy savings with full lockout.
It seems like you could benefit from a bit of custom tuning (like everyone really), I personally don't find it wallow at all, and no clicks of IPA def give me best traction, but I find myself running one click in just for the added support for when I'm pumping or decide to hit something silly for a 130mm trail bike, a bit better pedalling doesn't hurt either  
I'm 55kg though, fairly aggressive rider.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Not just no, but hell no. I might pick up another air shock for my RFX at some point in the future, but it sure as heck won't be an XC shock like this. This is definitely an XC shock, especially with the limited tuning options. I think there's some literature somewhere that says "enduro", but that only goes as far as paper IMO. As an XC shock, it doesn't seem bad though. I'm way addicted to the tuned RC4 on the RFX and it's not coming off any time soon.
> 
> It's also entirely possible that the mcleod is better than the stock monarch that comes on the RFX, but the stock monarch is so inadequate for that bike that it's not really worth discussing much. Ditching that was a huge upgrade.


I thought not but wanted to make sure!


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Mcleod is a good shock for trails: descents and technical climb. I can't consider it a XC shock, it doesn't have a firm lockout too.

I have recently replaced a mcleod with king Can on my Knolly Warden with a EXT storia, while the storia is slighty better for very long descents, the mcleod is not that far.
I can't say this for a Fox DPS or a monarch rt3, mcleod is very different and so much better for trails.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

The McLeod is arguably the most tunable inline air shock available outside the DB Air Inline. You just have to be willing to dig into it. Very much like Avalanche stuff, where thr good stuff happens inside and the knobs dont do much. 

I find it interesting that its one of the few shocks Craig at Avalanche doesnt offer his HSB/SSD upgrade for. Maybe its good enough as is?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

davideb87 said:


> it doesn't have a firm lockout too.


It has as firm a lockout as anything else these days. Solid lockouts tend to damage the shock over time and sometimes the frame (pivot points that are made to pivot, not be subject to slamming in one direction and pit the ball bearing races). It's not *that* different. I tested the lockout extensively the other day, on the trail and hammering on the pavement. It works well.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

PHeller said:


> I find it interesting that its one of the few shocks Craig at Avalanche doesnt offer his HSB/SSD upgrade for. Maybe its good enough as is?


He is a business and there probably aren't enough of these in circulation to make business sense.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

PHeller said:


> The McLeod is arguably the most tunable inline air shock available outside the DB Air Inline. You just have to be willing to dig into it. Very much like Avalanche stuff, where thr good stuff happens inside and the knobs dont do much.
> 
> I find it interesting that its one of the few shocks Craig at Avalanche doesnt offer his HSB/SSD upgrade for. Maybe its good enough as is?


i don't want to start an argument but i've never seen a picture of what an HSB/SSD upgrade IS for a shock. Mcleod doesn't have a base valve.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

FactoryMatt said:


> i don't want to start an argument but i've never seen a picture of what an HSB/SSD upgrade IS for a shock. Mcleod doesn't have a base valve.


I recently replaced a Fox Factory DPS Evol on my Pivot Mach 429 Trail that had the Avalanche SSD/HSB mods with a Manitou Mcleod. Best upgrade I have ever made to a bike.

The DPS with the SSD/HSB mod pedaled well enough but I still found it to be lacking in support in g-out type scenarios and still woefully lacking small bump sensitivity in chattery washboard type stretches. Whether that's due to the restrictions of the DPS being a total POS shock to begin with or the SSD/HSB mod being snake oil I can't really say. I was actually told at one point that my expectations for it weren't realistic.

Well I'm here to tell you that with the addition of the stock, out of the box, Mcleod the bike now meets my expectations and then some.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

The SSD/HSB mods on online shocks basically turn fox shocks in a monarch style damper, and are pretty much just a tune for monarchs. Its a spring loaded poppet for lsc that Craig uses various spring stiffnesses and lengths to achieve different low speed tunes. This is paired with custom shim stacks. Sometimes he will modify pistons by drilling out ports if more flow is needed. It works pretty well.

While it's true that there probably are not enough McLeods around for Craig to justify the R&D time for them, it wouldn't matter anyway. McLeods do not have damper that can be modified the way Craig wants them to work. McLeods have no low speed bypass for him to modify, and the IPA cam wouldn't work the way his damper would need it to. The McLeod is based on careful piston port design, and room for two compression shim stacks. The IPA adjuster adds preload to the 2nd shim stack so shift the entire damping curve rather than just changing flow through a poppet. The is the way the HSC adjustment works on the Mattoc and the upcoming Mara shock. 

The McLeod is not designed to be an enduro shock, pretty much no inline shock is. It can handle the duties better than most other inline shocks in my opinion, but it can heat up on extra long, technical decents (mainly ifp pressure rises creating a more progressive spring that can make HSR a little fast). Again, all in line shocks suffer from heat issues in those situations, and that's why they are not considered enduro shocks. 

The Mara will be the Manitou enduro shock when it's released in a few months.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Jayem said:


> He is a business and there probably aren't enough of these in circulation to make business sense.


He offers stuff for BOS and ELKA, and I doubt there are more of those than these out there!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kartracer said:


> I'm looking at the Cane Creek OPT remote. It's similar functionally to a thumbie shifter in that it's infinitely adjustable anywhere you want to run the setting. I checked with Cane Creek and the OPT has 23mm of cable pull ... 4-5mm more than what's needed so it will move the IPA between the full range.


Is this a friction remote? The thumbie I'm using holds the shock lever in position fine, but I tried it without the return spring in the shock and that flat out wouldn't work, so friction is needed to keep the lever in position.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

Jayem said:


> Is this a friction remote? The thumbie I'm using holds the shock lever in position fine, but I tried it without the return spring in the shock and that flat out wouldn't work, so friction is needed to keep the lever in position.


Well bummer. I don't believe there is any type of friction with the OPT sliding remote. My thought was possibly without the return spring ... but it seems that's not an option based your testing. Hmmm ... I may now have to consider the Fox 3-position remote or a thumbie friction lever. Let us know if you find a good higher end thumbie.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kartracer said:


> Well bummer. I don't believe there is any type of friction with the OPT sliding remote. My thought was possibly without the return spring ... but it seems that's not an option based your testing. Hmmm ... I may now have to consider the Fox 3-position remote or a thumbie friction lever. Let us know if you find a good higher end thumbie.


Solution is simple, Paul Components makes mounts that convert downtube friction shifters to thumbies, or you can buy flat-bar thumbies like I did, although there's varying quality, I bought a dirt cheap one to test the concept and see if it would work, which it does. Microshift makes some decent quality ones. Thumbie shifters, like those that used to come on bikes a long time ago, work on friction, to "hold" the derailleur. Later, the higher end ones became indexed right before trigger shifters came out, but most, if not all R/H thumbies at least have a non-indexed friction mode. All L/H ones are micro-adjust (non indexed).

That's the simple solution. It also might work with a SRAM front derailleur grip-shifter. Those are also micro-indexed, but that would screw up my grips and dropper remote unnecessarily.


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

kartracer said:


> ... I may now have to consider the Fox 3-position remote...


Mrs levity and I use use the Fox 3-position remote with our McLeod shocks and are happy with it. It's quick and easy to operate and has good detents so there's no fishing for position. Three settings seems like plenty, especially since we spend most of the time in the open position anyway.


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## SlowTri (Apr 10, 2012)

Jayem said:


> Well, the MILO is pretty disappointing so far. I got it mounted up and functioning, but it appears there are only two settings, 1, which is full open, which I assume is "blow through the travel" setting, and fully locked. I was hoping it would be incremental. What is so hard about making these compatable with good ole thumbie shifters? Then you could select whatever setting you want. The settings in between full open and fully locked would likely be useful for someone pushing hard.
> 
> The remote comes with brake housing with housing ends crimped, so that you have to trash at least one of them because they are not removable. Remote doesn't have a hinge, so you get to take your grips off. Takes a lot of torque to make it not rotate when actuating, because it's so skinny (little clamping area), used some fiber grease to help give some traction, that helped. Cable won't go through the remote without taking the barrel adjuster off, minor inconvenience.
> 
> And an important 2mm screw was missing from the package. I was lucky on that one because I had an extra, but overall, this does not seem well thought out. I'm probably going to go on the hunt for a thumbie shifter that I can use to get the actual range of the adjuster, rather than full-blow and full-lock.


I'm with you on this. I just got my frame built up and put a Mcleod with remote on. I cut the one end off the cable only to find that a normal brake cable end cap is too large for the remote lever. The lever itself feels cheap and doesn't leave me feeling like I got my moneys worth out of it. I'll probably pull the shock and convert it back to manual if someone doesn't have a good alternative that we know works.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

SlowTri said:


> I'm with you on this. I just got my frame built up and put a Mcleod with remote on. I cut the one end off the cable only to find that a normal brake cable end cap is too large for the remote lever. The lever itself feels cheap and doesn't leave me feeling like I got my moneys worth out of it. I'll probably pull the shock and convert it back to manual if someone doesn't have a good alternative that we know works.


I ordered a microshift shifter for it. Like I said, I had it rigged up with a suntour and it worked well enough, I'll be setting it up later this week with the microshift hopefully.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> I ordered a microshift shifter for it. Like I said, I had it rigged up with a suntour and it worked well enough, I'll be setting it up later this week with the microshift hopefully.


It'll be good to have a variable compression lever setup sleuthed out. It's a setup that's outside the priority list for all of Manitou's usual fans.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

scandy1 said:


> I'm trying to decide between this and the DB Air IL, anyone ridden both? I like the 4 way adjustment of the DB, it's going on a short travel, 110 travel bike, so want something that's really efficient with using its travel, as in not blowing through it unnecessarily etc, good small bump compliance, and ability to get decent ramp up at the end of its travel.
> 
> The remote on the DB is a plus.


I had a DB Air IL on my Banshee Phantom (105mm travel) and recently switched to the McLeod. Best rear suspension I have ever had. The shock I bought is not the exact size that is spec'd for the Phantom, so I actually gained a little travel, up to about 120mm in the rear now, which is an added benefit.

I do use the IPA lever a lot on the McLeod. I feel like #1 is too active, so I mostly leave it in number 2 or 3. I did take my bike to a DH park over the weekend and left the IPA lever on #1. I had to adjust my rebound a little slower too. The shock worked great though, no complaints.

The DB Air I had was rebuilt by Cane Creek right when they introduced the new Air IL, so mine was brought up to the latest and greatest they had to offer. I rode it for almost 2 years and now it needs a rebuild again. That shock always felt way too stiff to me, and I just assumed since I was on a short travel bike that was what I had to deal with. This McLeod has changed my mind about that.


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## tuskenraider (Sep 9, 2012)

Stahr_Nut said:


> I recently replaced a Fox Factory DPS Evol on my Pivot Mach 429 Trail that had the Avalanche SSD/HSB mods with a Manitou Mcleod. Best upgrade I have ever made to a bike.
> 
> The DPS with the SSD/HSB mod pedaled well enough but I still found it to be lacking in support in g-out type scenarios and still woefully lacking small bump sensitivity in chattery washboard type stretches. Whether that's due to the restrictions of the DPS being a total POS shock to begin with or the SSD/HSB mod being snake oil I can't really say.


 I share the exact same opinion, but for my Ripley. CC DB iL is much better. Will eventually order a McCleod to try in the future.


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## tuskenraider (Sep 9, 2012)

69tr6r said:


> The DB Air I had was rebuilt by Cane Creek right when they introduced the new Air IL, so mine was brought up to the latest and greatest they had to offer. I rode it for almost 2 years and now it needs a rebuild again. That shock always felt way too stiff to me, and I just assumed since I was on a short travel bike that was what I had to deal with.


 With four adjustments, there is a lot to work with. After having mine off/on for the last two years(swapping with Avalanche tuned DPS), I thought I had a decent setup. I went back to fiddling with it and eventually got it to feel much better. Sometimes you get lazy like I did and accept mediocrity, when a little more effort can improve things quite a bit.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

I went from DB Air IL to mcleod as well, and found the mcleod to be superior.
The DB Air is still a good shock


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

tuskenraider said:


> With four adjustments, there is a lot to work with. After having mine off/on for the last two years(swapping with Avalanche tuned DPS), I thought I had a decent setup. I went back to fiddling with it and eventually got it to feel much better. Sometimes you get lazy like I did and accept mediocrity, when a little more effort can improve things quite a bit.


I definitely could have tinkered with the settings more, and I should have. Sometimes it's easy to follow the tuning guide that CC provides and think that's the best it can be.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Are there any shops selling the McLeod that will also tune it prior to shipping?

Shockcraft could do that, but at $390 for the shock, plus cost for tuning, plus shipping across a few continents and a large ocean, it's probably better to see if there any similar options in the US or Canada.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

pm'd you. 

Manitou may be able to do this for you if you order through a dealer (Treefort Bikes coordinated it for me).


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> It'll be good to have a variable compression lever setup sleuthed out. It's a setup that's outside the priority list for all of Manitou's usual fans.



















Just installed my microshift "remote". Works very nice.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

If your bike is not too progressive and you use the outer volume limiter in the middle of the kingcan anyway you can easily tune the mcleod to a debonair style aircan. The just needs to be drilled a tiny hole from the small neg chamber below the air piston to the outer chamber.
My mcleod git that tuning incl. Equalization ports between the pis and neg chamber and a custom stack. Changed the whole shock to a even higher level. Better support, way more sensitive and it even rocks a dpx 2.very great in my transition patrol in areas like finale ligure and so on


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Drilling a hole is no problem, the issue is figuring out where and how to make the equalistation dimple, I'm sure it can be calculated, but how do you make the dimple so that it doesn't damage seals?
ps. what year is your bike? Cause from what I found it's even less progressive than my Kross Soil, so I find it interesting that you can run a king can with good results, as the standard can is on the edge of being progressive enough for my bike, aka I have 3mm spare stroke for the big hits with 25% sag.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

One of my McLeods (only a couple months old) has developed a slow air leak. I typically run it at 125-135 psi and when it sits for 3-4 days between rides and I check it, it is down to ~100 psi.

Do you suspect the likely cause is a bad air can seal or a faulty Schrader fill valve? Thanks.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

If it was a bad seal you would notice it getting stuck down real bad, aspecially at this rate, it gotta be a valve or air can oring issue. Check I'd there is no debris in any of these, dunking it in water could show the leaking spot at this rate too.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Stahr_Nut said:


> One of my McLeods (only a couple months old) has developed a slow air leak. I typically run it at 125-135 psi and when it sits for 3-4 days between rides and I check it, it is down to ~100 psi.
> 
> Do you suspect the likely cause is a bad air can seal or a faulty Schrader fill valve? Thanks.


I had same issue and it was air can seal. Re-seal it and put some silicone grease on threads and o-ring.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Looking at buying this shock. Could this be a simple fix such as needing negative air?

https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/2549743/


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I saw that shock a while back. Pretty crazy that it's been the only McLeod listed on PinkBike BuySell for months. There arent many of them floating around, and those that are must have happy owners.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PHeller said:


> I saw that shock a while back. Pretty crazy that it's been the only McLeod listed on PinkBike BuySell for months. There arent many of them floating around, and those that are must have happy owners.


 I need one for my Scott Spark like Chinese frame. Don't like the offerings from RS fox in that size. Have been waiting 2 years for dvo to drop the opal t2.

Training for a race in Sept. Plan is do my work on my 30lb magic Mary equipped recluse then switch to the 24lb bike on race day.

Says "local pickup only". I guess I'll find out what it will take for him to ship it.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

PHeller said:


> I saw that shock a while back. Pretty crazy that it's been the only McLeod listed on PinkBike BuySell for months. There arent many of them floating around, and those that are must have happy owners.


i've got a 200x51 and 200x57 available for anyone interested. sorry mods if this is forbidden.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

FactoryMatt said:


> i've got a 200x51 and 200x57 available for anyone interested. sorry mods if this is forbidden.


 I might be interested in one of those at a later date as backup/ lighter option to my inline coil.

I offered the guy 60$ usd to ship the McLeod and he said yes. So I own a McLeod now will be back with questions on tuning and rebuild. 

Pretty sure it came off a Sherpa and I will need to tune it for 110mm flex stay suspension.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

More pictures of remote. Was out dialing everything in for tomorrow's race. Remote works great. This 10spd microshift shifter can operate as index, or completely friction mode. It came set in friction mode, so I had to take it apart to be able to rotate the housing to friction mode. Friction mode works great. It *seems* like the travel of the shifter and selector knob on the shock match perfectly, but it may just be the knob reaching it's end of travel (locked position). In any case, it works well.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

For the guys who love to sell the McLeod (Dougal and Mullen):

Can you guys elaborate on why the McLeod is a better option than the Rockshox Deluxe RT/RT3/Ultimate or Fox DPS - even with an aftermarket tune?

I know the McLeod allows for easier at-home tuning - and that's certainly a big selling point - to me at least. 

...but what about Tuned vs Tuned? The McLeod isn't cheap at $300+, and we can find Deluxe and DPS shocks all day long for under $150 lightly used and in metric sizes - something you can't do with the McLeod; there just aren't enough of them out there. 

So I can get a Deluxe and send it to Avalanche or Vorspung or DirtLabs or any other tuning shop and for about the same price as a new McLeod I can have a custom tuned lightweight air shock. 

That begs the question: what's going on inside the McLeod that make it so much better than arguably newer tech of the Deluxe or DPS?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> For the guys who love to sell the McLeod (Dougal and Mullen):
> 
> Can you guys elaborate on why the McLeod is a better option than the Rockshox Deluxe RT/RT3/Ultimate or Fox DPS - even with an aftermarket tune?
> 
> ...


It's not "new tech" as much as a completely different damping philosophy. Those others have big bypass ports that reduce damping and let the shock wallow. They also run not much compression damping and rely heavily on the air spring to hold up the riders.

The McLeod runs all damping oil through the piston. It is always damping and always controlling the ride. Which means no wallow and the air spring doesn't have to be super-progressive.

The trapped negative air spring also has no dead spot or forced sag point from the pos/neg equalization ports. Which can be a real problem for some riders.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm no suspension expert but the McLeod changed my 2019 Orbea OIZ from a bike I wanted to sell after only 3 rides, to a bike that I feel is incredible.

It's quite an impressive piece of equipment for only $320.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> Drilling a hole is no problem, the issue is figuring out where and how to make the equalistation dimple, I'm sure it can be calculated, but how do you make the dimple so that it doesn't damage seals?
> ps. what year is your bike? Cause from what I found it's even less progressive than my Kross Soil, so I find it interesting that you can run a king can with good results, as the standard can is on the edge of being progressive enough for my bike, aka I have 3mm spare stroke for the big hits with 25% sag.


A colleque of mine tunes shocks. He did the neg chamber mod incl. Calculation of the volume and position of the dimple ports and made a custom shimstack. Works well in the 2016 patrol and 2016 vitus sommet


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

PHeller said:


> For the guys who love to sell the McLeod (Dougal and Mullen):
> 
> Can you guys elaborate on why the McLeod is a better option than the Rockshox Deluxe RT/RT3/Ultimate or Fox DPS - even with an aftermarket tune?
> 
> ...


Eek, where are you spending $300 on a Mcleod? You can get them new from Europe for less than $200 and in the USA for $250 shipped.

I bought mine as a back up shock when my Pushed shock was getting serviced. Realized when the Pushed shock came back that the Mcleod felt better and sold the Fox unit. Honestly, if I had just sold the Fox unit and not had it serviced I would have actually made money...


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

So the one I bought off pinkbike the guy says it won't move even without air.
So obviously I'm starting with a rebuild kit but does anyone have any ideas what would cause it not to move at all?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Vespasianus said:


> Eek, where are you spending $300 on a Mcleod?


Well, you can get the shock for pretty inexpensive, yes, but the hardware is hard to come by. This seems to be manitou's big failing with the shock. I got some earlier this week and BTI had only one of each in stock, one of which was a very common size. Looking online, there's a lot of old manitou stuff, but they just don't have the support and sizes out there like Fox does, and if they want to break into the markets, they really need to, not to mention manitou's system is poor overall for hardware and bushings. So even if you find the shock for $200, you'll likely be spending significantly more to get it working.



> Can you guys elaborate on why the McLeod is a better option than the Rockshox Deluxe RT/RT3/Ultimate or Fox DPS - even with an aftermarket tune?


I can't say it's better than an aftermarket tune on those other shocks yet, I've been able to ride it with some other hardware, but it loosens up after a few rides pretty fast. The rebound knob is pretty idiotic, without detents to hold it in place. Maybe that sounded nice on some drawing board somewhere, but in modern times people are running things like frame-bags and other stuff that may not cause any shock interference as far as limiting travel/action, but may rub up against it at times. That may not effect each and every bike, but just being able to know where it's set at and be able to quickly adjust for conditions is far more frustrating with such a knob. On most bikes, these aren't in a place in the "wide open" where it's easy to see, so we tend to rely on "clicks" to help set. Just because you have clicks doesn't mean they have to be gigantic huge with only 7-9. I'm a little worried about lubrication in the long run, without having any kind of oil bath that atomizes and coats the can.

That said, it shows promise. It locks pretty hard for racing. Adjustments work as advertised. I wanted to get a 2nd shock that locks, but if I was just generally looking for an improvement, I would probably go the tuned route.


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## olao (Aug 17, 2017)

Klaster_1 said:


> @olao runs his M06 with a 165x38 McLeod. I'd also like to hear some feedback from him.


Hey, @Klaster_1, I had totally missed your post, and haven't been browsing this thread for a long while.

Yes, I run a 165x38 on a Dengfu M06 frame, which is very similar in geometry to a Scalpel, but slightly slacker head angle. The McLeod on that frame works fantastic for me. I have not run any other damper on that frame, and not a McLeod on any other frame, so my possibility to compare is limited. However, on this combo I have been faster on gravel than on my hardtail as well as faster on bumpy single tracks than on my old fs (Cube Stereo with RS Monarch, i.e. quite a different machine). More comfortable always. I get a bit of pedal bob when fully open, but use a remote with three positions from fully open to fully closed, which minimizes that. And if you ask me, it's cheap.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Well, you can get the shock for pretty inexpensive, yes, but the hardware is hard to come by. This seems to be manitou's big failing with the shock. I got some earlier this week and BTI had only one of each in stock, one of which was a very common size. Looking online, there's a lot of old manitou stuff, but they just don't have the support and sizes out there like Fox does, and if they want to break into the markets, they really need to, not to mention manitou's system is poor overall for hardware and bushings. So even if you find the shock for $200, you'll likely be spending significantly more to get it working.


I bought mine from Dirt Merchant with Fox reducers installed (Five piece set up). Cost was $260 shipped. I installed it on my 5-Spot and have not looked back. This was almost 4 years ago but required almost zero effort on my part. What has been so hard for people?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Vespasianus said:


> I bought mine from Dirt Merchant with Fox reducers installed (Five piece set up). Cost was $260 shipped. I installed it on my 5-Spot and have not looked back. This was almost 4 years ago but required almost zero effort on my part. What has been so hard for people?


Most of our McLeod's are way out of spec to run fox hardware, as explained in this thread.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Most of our McLeod's are way out of spec to run fox hardware, as explained in this thread.


I received my shock, pushed out the steel inserts, and swapped over my Fox hardware in all about 15 minutes total on my Orbea. Everything fit perfectly.

Maybe I just got lucky.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Most of our McLeod's are way out of spec to run fox hardware, as explained in this thread.





Zerort said:


> I received my shock, pushed out the steel inserts, and swapped over my Fox hardware in all about 15 minutes total on my Orbea. Everything fit perfectly.
> 
> Maybe I just got lucky.


Me to! Jayem, do you have a bike shop and notice the fox hardware does not fit?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Vespasianus said:


> Me to! Jayem, do you have a bike shop and notice the fox hardware does not fit?


I'm not sure what having a bike shop means, but I have several fox hardware kits (2 of each) that fit my McLeod and both are unacceptably loose, as in play on the bike when installed. Again, well documented in this thread by others. I have many new bushings and the multiple sets of hardware. This wouldn't be such a big issue I'd manitou made their hardware easily available and had a good hardware system (like aluminum hardware with igus bushings).


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## SlowTri (Apr 10, 2012)

RWC bearing kit is a bit spendy but it at least takes the guess work out of whether you can find the right tolerances. My shock required their "+" axle.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Most of our McLeod's are way out of spec to run fox hardware, as explained in this thread.





Jayem said:


> I'm not sure what having a bike shop means, but I have several fox hardware kits (2 of each) that fit my McLeod and both are unacceptably loose, as in play on the bike when installed. Again, well documented in this thread by others. I have many new bushings and the multiple sets of hardware. This wouldn't be such a big issue I'd manitou made their hardware easily available and had a good hardware system (like aluminum hardware with igus bushings).


In reading the threads it seems people have issues but things like the pin being too loose seems like a fox issue and not a manitou issue. I don't know how widespread it is and how much is the reducer being out of wack and how much an issue it is the shock eyelet being out of wack.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

It should also be noted that the $180 McLeod's floating around for sale from Europe and even stateside are Standard Sizing. As a result, they are probably older stock. The Metric sized shocks add about $100 on top of Manitou's stated MSRP.

I have a hard enough time finding the Metric sized shocks for sale, much less under $300. 

I kinda wish Manitou sold these directly - and offered a custom tune option.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Vespasianus said:


> In reading the threads it seems people have issues but things like the pin being too loose seems like a fox issue and not a manitou issue. I don't know how widespread it is and how much is the reducer being out of wack and how much an issue it is the shock eyelet being out of wack.


I've verified this hardware in fox shocks. If it works on fox, it's not fox that is the issue, it's manitou. Reasons explained above are those that make this a less than obvious choice for users.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

PHeller said:


> I kinda wish Manitou sold these directly - and offered a custom tune option.


No custom tune option, but......

https://shop.hayesperformance.com/collections/manitou


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Is there a way to make the rebound knob stiffer or something? I find myself rotating it on accident when using the IPA lever, and since a quarter turn either way makes a huge difference, its less than optimal obviously...


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Most of our McLeod's are way out of spec to run fox hardware, as explained in this thread.





Jayem said:


> I've verified this hardware in fox shocks. If it works on fox, it's not fox that is the issue, it's manitou. Reasons explained above are those that make this a less than obvious choice for users.


Gotcha. I have a Ripley on order and will see how the shock works (some Fox unit). I was thinking if it caused me problems, I would just replace it with a Mcleod. I might order one earlier and see how it fits. But I need to find spacers...


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mullen119 said:


> No custom tune option, but......
> 
> https://shop.hayesperformance.com/collections/manitou


I recently bought a metric 190x45 from there. The website is still a little wonky, the sorting doesn't always work right and you have to ignore some of the item details and trust the pulldowns, but beyond that ordering was easy and the shipping was super fast.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I have 4 rides on my new Ripmo and the Fox DPX2 is not a McLeod. I've been running a McLeod for years on my Prophet (650b, Lefty, blah, blah, blah) and it has been a great experience. I can't get the DPX2 quite right. The McLeod was a breeze to setup. 

Thinking I need to make a change. Thoughts?

I have the Fox Factory fork upgrade. That is working great.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Prophet Julio said:


> I have 4 rides on my new Ripmo and the Fox DPX2 is not a McLeod. I've been running a McLeod for years on my Prophet (650b, Lefty, blah, blah, blah) and it has been a great experience. I can't get the DPX2 quite right. The McLeod was a breeze to setup.
> 
> Thinking I need to make a change. Thoughts?
> 
> I have the Fox Factory fork upgrade. That is working great.


Went from dpx2 to McLeod on on my HD4 and could not be happier. Let me know if any specific questions.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> I recently bought a metric 190x45 from there. The website is still a little wonky, the sorting doesn't always work right and you have to ignore some of the item details and trust the pulldowns, but beyond that ordering was easy and the shipping was super fast.


That is ordering directly from the Hayes warehouse. Website is a work in progress, selling direct is a new venture.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> No custom tune option, but......
> 
> https://shop.hayesperformance.com/collections/manitou


Such a long reservoir, I wonder if the mara will fit a bronson lower linkage


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Went from dpx2 to McLeod on on my HD4 and could not be happier. Let me know if any specific questions.

^^ This is good to know. I'm just not able to get the DPX2 to feel as composed as the McLeod in the chunky stuff. But it looks like the 210 x 55 are on back order.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

piciu256 said:


> Is there a way to make the rebound knob stiffer or something? I find myself rotating it on accident when using the IPA lever, and since a quarter turn either way makes a huge difference, its less than optimal obviously...


You can tighten the the small screw (allen) on the other side which will limit movement of the rebound knob and fix it into place. Mine did this on its own for some reason


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

What is the "tuneable large air volume in that photo?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jdang307 said:


> What is the "tuneable large air volume in that photo?


Volume spacers that no-one ever needed. They didn't make production.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Exactly- in theory you can put a volume spacer in there, in practive you need to bodge something yourself if you need it 
I'd say someone needs them, for sure peopple with linear linkage, mine is relatively progressive and it's on the edge of being usable, the air can is less progressive than the debonair rs can for reference (there last 4mm of travel were impossible to achieve for me, here last 3mm are reserved for big hits but I'm able to bottom out) both at 30% sag.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm the only person I know that reduced volume on a McLeod. I did it on all 3 frames I have used a McLeod on as well. Currently 6cc reduced on a pivot mach 6 with 27% sag.

I only weigh 160lbs in gear, but ride pretty aggressively


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

What's the best way to go about popping these bushings out of the shock eyelets? I tried a punch but it just looked like that was starting to booger up the edge and they weren't budging so I stopped.









Thanks.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Stahr_Nut said:


> What's the best way to go about popping these bushings out of the shock eyelets? I tried a punch but it just looked like that was starting to booger up the edge and they weren't budging so I stopped.
> 
> View attachment 1256067
> 
> ...


You need a proper tool. I have a one from Rock Shox and only cost like $15 and used only once. Your local LBS should be able to do that in about 10 seconds and charge you anywhere from 0 to $5.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You just need a bunch of sockets, spacers and a qr skewer.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

This is pretty awesome for the money.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/183781585440


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I made my own about 20 years ago. But Unior make a nice tool now: https://uniorusa.com/shop-bicycle-tools/bushing-extractor-set-12-12-7mm/


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

mullen119 said:


> I'm the only person I know that reduced volume on a McLeod. I did it on all 3 frames I have used a McLeod on as well. Currently 6cc reduced on a pivot mach 6 with 27% sag.
> 
> I only weigh 160lbs in gear, but ride pretty aggressively


Similar here, I have 5ml of grease in mine, seems about right-for me. It is on a flat rate bike, so the end result isn't particularly progressive. Most newer bikes seem to be trending towards higher progression kinematics so probably not as greater need to have a highly progressive air spring.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I have this one. Works fine.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RockShox-R...375112&hash=item46868a75cc:g:SSEAAOSwKEhbsl-6


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

So I bought one used off pb. It is off a Rocky Mountain Sherpa. Turns out the eye to eye is shorter then 165mm is it possible to lengthen it?

Also the owner said it would not move with or without air. He was right so I took the air can off it made a loud pop and now the damper is s moving. 
I assume that he never took the air can off and the pressure built up until it would no longer move.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> So I bought one used off pb. It is off a Rocky Mountain Sherpa. Turns out the eye to eye is shorter then 165mm is it possible to lengthen it?
> 
> Also the owner said it would not move with or without air. He was right so I took the air can off it made a loud pop and now the damper is s moving.
> I assume that he never took the air can off and the pressure built up until it would no longer move.


How many spacers were in the air can? 165 is the standard configuration, it probably has extra top out spacers to shorten it. (Never came across a Sherpa version)

Probably needs a full rebuild regardless, it's a few years old at this point


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> How many spacers were in the air can? 165 is the standard configuration, it probably has extra top out spacers to shorten it. (Never came across a Sherpa version)
> 
> Probably needs a full rebuild regardless, it's a few years old at this point


 I don't see any spacers the only thing that came out was the foam bumper.
With the air can off it measures 155mm if that helps. I think I would need a longer airshaft?


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Typically its not worth trying to lengthen the eye-to-eye length of a shock because it require so many news parts you might as well buy a new shock. If there was some cheap and easy way to length a imperial sized McLeod to Metric sizing and eyelets that be sweet, but my guess is lengthening a shock at all will be pricey and complicated.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Ya I don't think I'll be able to resell this shock not many bikes needing a 155mm shock. I'm kind of stuck with it now.
I sent an email to Manitou I guess I'll see what they have to say.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Ok new problem. I've got it installed and it's hitting a hard stop at 30% of it's stroke.
A guy in the Sherpa thread said it happened to him twice and Manitou fixed it before he replaced it with a fox.

Any ideas?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Ok new problem. I've got it installed and it's hitting a hard stop at 30% of it's stroke.
> A guy in the Sherpa thread said it happened to him twice and Manitou fixed it before he replaced it with a fox.
> 
> Any ideas?


A hard stop is usually the damper piston hitting the IFP. Which only happens if the shock has been bled without enough oil or the IFP seal has failed.

Manitou did have leaking issues on early IFP's, they were grey and the replacements were red. But this was about 4 years ago and they should have all been swapped out at least 3 years ago.

They can be rebuilt at home, you need the IFP keychain tool: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/ifp-valve-tool-keychain-manitou.html If oil comes out the IFP valve you have an IFP seal failure.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Dougal said:


> A hard stop is usually the damper piston hitting the IFP. Which only happens if the shock has been bled without enough oil or the IFP seal has failed.
> 
> Manitou did have leaking issues on early IFP's, they were grey and the replacements were red. But this was about 4 years ago and they should have all been swapped out at least 3 years ago.
> 
> They can be rebuilt at home, you need the IFP keychain tool: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/ifp-valve-tool-keychain-manitou.html If oil comes out the IFP valve you have an IFP seal failure.


 I don't have the tools to do it I'll just send it to Manitou unless you k ow of someone better in the US.

Edit: the guy I bought it from said it happened after 20 rides so I'm going to assume blown seal.
Also I think it's a 14-15 year model so it might not be updated.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Manitou got back with me. It's $70 plus parts for a full overhaul so I'm going that route.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Manitou got back with me. It's $70 plus parts for a full overhaul so I'm going that route.


That is pretty darn cheap.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Vespasianus said:


> That is pretty darn cheap.


 Yep that's what I said everyone else would be double that.

Sign me up


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Wow, I thought I had a worn DU bushing, even though I had just put it in. I did a wet 50 mile ride and it's not uncommon to go through BB bearings or something. The rear hardware I got from manitou fits in the bushing loose. I tried a brand new bushing, hardware on one end is still loose. Hardware on the other end is rock solid. This is unacceptable.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Wow, this QC is pretty bad I thought I had a worn DU bushing, even though I had just put it in. I did a wet 50 mile ride and it's not uncommon to go through BB bearings or something. The rear hardware I got from manitou fits in the bushing loose. I tried a brand new bushing, hardware on one end is still loose. Hardware on the other end is rock solid. This is unacceptable.


Have you tried swapping the bushings end to end?

The eyelet sizes should be the same within +/- 0.01mm, but the DU bushings can be greater tolerance than that. It's a tolerance stack up of three different parts that can be the head-ache.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Have you tried swapping the bushings end to end?
> 
> The eyelet sizes should be the same within +/- 0.01mm, but the DU bushings can be greater tolerance than that. It's a tolerance stack up of three different parts that can be the head-ache.


I just bought some brand new bushings today, same exact type as came with the shock , and installed them. One end started out noticeably looser, but seemed tight enough (no play when installed). I have taken pictures of the hardware with my calipers. One of the hats is 12.72mm, the other is 12.70mm (the part that inserts into the bushing).

The hats are basically so loose they fall out if I turn the shock.

This shouldn't be happening and they should have some kind of system figured out that doesn't run into this issue. It's not an issue with other stuff. I don't go through 10 IGUS bushings trying to find one that will allow the reducer to actually stay in the shock on it's own.

I'm about done with this silly business and thinking about cutting my losses, but I'll attempt warranty and see if they pull through.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> I just bought some brand new bushings today, same exact type as came with the shock , and installed them. One end started out noticeably looser, but seemed tight enough (no play when installed). I have taken pictures of the hardware with my calipers. One of the hats is 12.72mm, the other is 12.70mm (the part that inserts into the bushing).
> 
> The hats are basically so loose they fall out if I turn the shock.
> 
> ...


The only way to make sure 2 piece reducers don't end up too loose is to make them all tight. This is what Fox did with their 2 piece reducers. All you can do is shift the tolerance window.
This is the reason I do custom fitted shock hardware and make the couriers rich posting shocks around the country. The only way to get a perfect fit is with graded pins in 0.02mm steps.

IGUS bushings (particularly W compound) swell and shrink with humidity. So they're not immune either.

Do you need a pre-tensioned bushing? They're our go-to for DIY fitment. https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/1-2-pre-tensioned-igus-eyelet-bushing.html


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> The only way to make sure 2 piece reducers don't end up too loose is to make them all tight. This is what Fox did with their 2 piece reducers. All you can do is shift the tolerance window.
> This is the reason I do custom fitted shock hardware and make the couriers rich posting shocks around the country. The only way to get a perfect fit is with graded pins in 0.02mm steps.
> 
> IGUS bushings (particularly W compound) swell and shrink with humidity. So they're not immune either.
> ...


No. I need manitou to make stuff that works. This is frustrating.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> No. I need manitou to make **** that works. This is frustrating.


Yes it is frustrating. Shock-hardware is the biggest PITA in the business.

What was your old shock? Have you tried fitting that hardware in the shock eyelet?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Yes it is frustrating. Shock-hardware is the biggest PITA in the business.
> 
> What was your old shock? Have you tried fitting that hardware in the shock eyelet?


The Fox DPS is the other shock. The hardware from that is even looser (both eyelets) in the manitou. The manitou eyelets are definitely bigger. I measured them out a while back, but didn't write them down.

This really isn't the biggest PITA for Fox and I've been doing this for a while with Fox, Romic, 5th Element, Stratos, Curnut, RS, Avy and probably a few others I can't remember over the years. All these guys managed to figure this out. I've gotten multiple shocks from them that bolt right up and the hardware works. Like I said, I'm going to give manitou a chance to do the right thing, supply me with hardware or a shock that works, otherwise I'll have to get a refund.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Same issue here. First McLeod installed great and is still going strong (on a friend’s bike). Second one, the IGUS bushings slid in too easy. Ran it anyway but today had to pull it off and replace with the DPS. There was a noticeable clunk running the McLeod. Not sure I want to start buying new bushings in hopes one will fit. Like the shock a lot otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Play is unacceptable and destroys any smooth/good shock action, as well as it creates knocking that impacts things like shock bolts, pivot bearings, etc.

Here is some data:

Here are the "hats", according to the packaging, they are 35.6mm wide.

























These next few pictures are a new bushing vs. what came in the shock. The new bushing is not compressed (split ring), so it's naturally a little bigger. A new bushing was already put in the shock, with the same results. I bought several.

Old bushing








New bushing








The hats just fall out of the end of the shock by themselves. That's how loose they are.








Bushing that came with the shock and new bushing.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Play is unacceptable and destroys any smooth/good shock action, as well as it creates knocking that impacts things like shock bolts, pivot bearings, etc.
> 
> Here is some data:
> 
> ...


Because DU bushings spring and squish, the only way to measure them is installed. Push them into an eyelet and test fit a number of pins of different sizes.

I haven't found a single manufacturer who has eyelet sizes sorted out. I stock 5 different grades of shock pin and machine up new ones outside that range. Everything is custom fitted. Cane Creek generally take the smallest grade, Fox are slightly oversize and Rockshox have larger eyelets but smaller bore (different DU bushing mfg).
Some companies run as close as they can to a true 19/32" (15.08mm), others go straight to 15.10mm. I have measured eyelets on one brand at 15.15mm.
About 50% of shocks take a different grade pin in each end.

The two piece hardware is being replaced with new stuff. But it's not out yet. I've never been a fan of 2 piece but for short spans and the end that doesn't move much it can work okay. Manitou were running 3 piece hardware with steel pins in 40mm spans and wider.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> I haven't found a single manufacturer who has eyelet sizes sorted out. I stock 5 different grades of shock pin and machine up new ones outside that range. Everything is custom fitted. Cane Creek generally take the smallest grade, Fox are slightly oversize and Rockshox have larger eyelets but smaller bore (different DU bushing mfg).
> Some companies run as close as they can to a true 19/32" (15.08mm), others go straight to 15.10mm. I have measured eyelets on one brand at 15.15mm.
> About 50% of shocks take a different grade pin in each end.
> 
> The two piece hardware is being replaced with new stuff. But it's not out yet. I've never been a fan of 2 piece but for short spans and the end that doesn't move much it can work okay. Manitou were running 3 piece hardware with steel pins in 40mm spans and wider.


That's another possible issue, it seemed tight when starting, but the long 2-piece hardware set (35.6mm) may cause bending forces that always wipe out the bushing mid-ride. But now no bushings will make it tight. Bottom line is that this generally isn't an issue for other manufacturers, they've figured out how to do it. Manitou needs to make this right/work.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

*2019 Stumpjumper*

Anybody here using a McLeod yet on a 2019 Stumpjumper?

If so, LT, ST, or Evo?
How well do the flip chips fit in the lower shock eyelet?
Did you replace a Fox or Rochshox and how does the McLeod compare ... better and worse (if anything)?
Standard air can or King Can?


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Jayem said:


> That's another possible issue, it seemed tight when starting, but the long 2-piece hardware set (35.6mm) may cause bending forces that always wipe out the bushing mid-ride. But now no bushings will make it tight. Bottom line is that this generally isn't an issue for other manufacturers, they've figured out how to do it. Manitou needs to make this right/work.


If you read through this forum you will see I have/had same issue.. even sent shock back to manitou.. they were very helpful and sent me new shock and made some bushings for me.. but I agree that this is ridiculous.

obviously Douglas has great info but he always chimes in that every shock has this issue, I have to strongly disagree with this.

Just as you I've had plenty of other shocks in my 20+ years of riding and never had any issues with eyelet hardware tolerance...never..

Maybe there is some variance in every shock..ok ill give him that but not to the point that its an issue like it is with this shock. Its just not an issue with other shocks period.. go ask any shop.

I have 2 RWC roller bearings I cannot use with this shock.. also bought Fox argus and standard DU.. they were all too loose on bottom just as you say.. makes no sense.. anyway.

Side note:

This shock has a knock when IPA is fully open.. I know this because the shock I got back from manitou was 100% dialed and sorted yet still has loose bushing issue and still has a clunk when IPA is open.. so this is normal and may be more pronounced on certain bikes? I have a SC hightower and I definitely feel a clunk that feels like a loose bushing.

all and all would I buy this again.. Im not sure to be honest, customer support was great but there are just too many little issues with this shock for me personally. I also find that it blows through the stroke pretty easily when running correct sag and rebound is weird.. hard to get a consistent setting on rebound.

Last thing.. when I was with out shock for several weeks while it was back at manitou I swapped my stock RT debonair back in and was surprised how well it worked... and no clunking no loose bushings!

Id probably go fox dpx2 if I could do over.

as it is now I'm too cheap to replace it..lol but might do at some point soon.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

seamarsh said:


> If you read through this forum you will see I have/had same issue.. even sent shock back to manitou.. they were very helpful and sent me new shock and made some bushings for me.. but I agree that this is ridiculous.
> 
> obviously Douglas has great info but he always chimes in that every shock has this issue, I have to strongly disagree with this.
> 
> ...


Do you have a metric or an English shock? Are they having issues with newer shocks in particular? I have ordered a metric shock and hoping that I don't have issues...


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Vespasianus said:


> Do you have a metric or an English shock? Are they having issues with newer shocks in particular? I have ordered a metric shock and hoping that I don't have issues...


My Metric shock was perfect with the Fox hardware.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Vespasianus said:


> Do you have a metric or an English shock? Are they having issues with newer shocks in particular? I have ordered a metric shock and hoping that I don't have issues...


I have a new metric 190x45 sitting on my desk here and some new Rock Shox hardware that is a perfect snug fit in the Manitou installed original bushings, both ends fit exactly the same. I also have a couple of older non-metrics that didn't give me any memorable trouble, although they were on the looser side compared to other Fox and Rock Shox I have. I prefered it, if anything the problems I have had most often in the past were too tight hardware causing issues. I am running a RWS needle bearing kit on one end of the McLeod I have in my Smuggler and it works great.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

*Converting stroke on a metric shock?*

What's involved in converting the stroke on new metric shocks? Is it just adding or removing a 5mm spacer placed behind a bottom out bumper?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> What's involved in converting the stroke on new metric shocks? Is it just adding or removing a 5mm spacer placed behind a bottom out bumper?


Shortening the stroke would be adding spacers under the bottom out bumper, you can shorten eye2eye and stroke at the same time with spacers in the negative chamber.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Yes, is that how Manitou implements this from the factory?

Are 210x50 and 210x55 shocks identical aside from a 5mm spacer under the bottom out bumper?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> Yes, is that how Manitou implements this from the factory?
> 
> Are 210x50 and 210x55 shocks identical aside from a 5mm spacer under the bottom out bumper?


Correct.


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## brash (Dec 4, 2018)

kartracer said:


> Anybody here using a McLeod yet on a 2019 Stumpjumper?
> 
> If so, LT, ST, or Evo?
> How well do the flip chips fit in the lower shock eyelet?
> ...


Also interested in this, if the flip chip is loose there is nothing you can do really. I am interested to try this shock but it's an expensive gamble.

For what it's worth.... I've tried the following on my Stumpy Evo 29

DPX2 - Rubbish for a heavier rider, couldn't get the rebound slow enough. Poor small bump sensitivity.

CC IL Coil - Sensitivity obviously fantastic, very tuneable... just not enough progression in the kinematics without using absurd amounts of HSC or too high spring rate

CC DB Air - Fantastic, great small bump, ultra tuneable, nil fade, enough ramp up to avoid bottom out. I would prefer maybe a bit more HSR as I have It maxed out. Only requires low pressure too (I'm at 170psi at 230lb bodyweight)


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

My McLeod mounted up perfectly on my Tall Boy using new fox hardware on the top mount and a new RWC kit on the bottom. Over 500 miles and no play and no knocking at all. 

For the folks having bushing play issues- Just a question- Are you using new hardware, or hardware from the old shock ? If not, try new.

If you are using new hardware and the fit is still slightly loose, use some Loctite 660 (6513242) on the interface and you should be good to go. This is not thread locker! 660 is a bushing/bearing retaining compound specifically for this purpose. It does not "glue" the bushing, it will only make the fit tighter.

Oh! The McLeod on a VVP 3 suspension? One word- Brilliant. It is so much better than the DPS, no comparison.


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## pirati (Jul 21, 2004)

Simple question : I have a 200x51mm McLeod but got a new bike with 190x51mm shock.
Can my 200x51 be easily changed to 190x51mm?
thanks


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Nope, you'd need a different damper body, it's not too hard really, but not economically viable sadly. You could make it into a 190x40 quite easily though


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

You can't decrease/increase eye to eye length but you can usually only decrease stroke length.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

pirati said:


> Simple question : I have a 200x51mm McLeod but got a new bike with 190x51mm shock.
> Can my 200x51 be easily changed to 190x51mm?
> thanks


Easlily, no. You might get close with offset bushings and maybe a small internal spacer, but it all depends on your specific bike if that is possible or even a decent idea.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Rngspnr said:


> You can't decrease/increase eye to eye length but you can usually only decrease stroke length.


It's often possible to decrease E2E, but only by decreasing the stroke by the same length. Same with A2C and fork travel. What's not easily possible is decreasing E2E without decreasing travel.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

pirati said:


> Simple question : I have a 200x51mm McLeod but got a new bike with 190x51mm shock.
> Can my 200x51 be easily changed to 190x51mm?
> thanks


Yes. Those two sizes use the same air-cans and damper but a shorter damper body on the 190mm.

It would need a full rebuild.


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

Getting a new Mcleod set up on my Ripley V4. Bottoming out pretty easily at reasonable sag levels (25-30%). In general things feel pretty good but I need some more progression.

Are there air volume spacers available or suggestion of what I can use? 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

trumphair said:


> Getting a new Mcleod set up on my Ripley V4. Bottoming out pretty easily at reasonable sag levels (25-30%). In general things feel pretty good but I need some more progression.
> 
> Are there air volume spacers available or suggestion of what I can use?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Add some grease to the positive air chamber. That's how Fox makes their negative chamber more progressive


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Just installed a Mcleod on the Ripley:









Purchased from a reputable dealer and asked for a fox bushings but he said they were loose so he put in the Manitou ones. Bolted right up to the Ibis.

So far, so good.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

My 7yro son has this shock on his new Commencal Clash 24". Manitou's new 24" J-Unit fork got all the headlines (we LOVE the fork too) but DAMN...this shock is really really nice. The "Nino" kids tune they did is spectacular. It functions just like an adult shock. Its nice, plush and sags appropriately to 30% at 40 psi. The kids 60lbs creates zero suspension bob, and it actually works on the small stuff and chunder unlike the adult light rider tuned stuff on other kids FS. Did some chunky black diamond trails and it was a game-changer for him. Rebound/Compression is on point too and the 4-position lever is really useful for a kid that only has a BMX and a 145mm FS. Having the Chunder and Flow settings are actually super useful and its not like a "climb switch" that you forget about.










Obligatory Jump Pic:


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Finally got the stickers made up for my Primer. I got a yellow and grey version printed. They actually printed me 4 of each for some reason. Wife seems to think the grey flows better with the bike but I think I'm going to put the yellow on there to start with.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

svinyard said:


> My 7yro son has this shock on his new Commencal Clash 24". Manitou's new 24" J-Unit fork got all the headlines (we LOVE the fork too) but DAMN...this shock is really really nice. The "Nino" kids tune they did is spectacular. It functions just like an adult shock. Its nice, plush and sags appropriately to 30% at 40 psi. The kids 60lbs creates zero suspension bob, and it actually works on the small stuff and chunder unlike the adult light rider tuned stuff on other kids FS. Did some chunky black diamond trails and it was a game-changer for him. Rebound/Compression is on point too and the 4-position lever is really useful for a kid that only has a BMX and a 145mm FS. Having the Chunder and Flow settings are actually super useful and its not like a "climb switch" that you forget about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think we have a nominee for dad of the year...


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

That's rad.


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## ArmchairOperator (May 12, 2019)

Just installed this shock on my DMR Sled tonight. 216x63. Worlds better than the Rockshox Monarch RT3 the bike came with. I was at 350psi on the RS and barely get 30-35% sag. I weigh 320 neked. I’m at 250psi on the McLeod and it seems like it’s right, but once I get some help to set the sag I’ll get it dialed for sure. Any recommendations on pressure? How about on the rebound setting? I turned it fully clockwise and backed off a quarter turn, seems ok, but I haven’t actually had it out on the trail yet. Any help is much appreciated as I dive into the world of suspension setup. Also installed an MRP Ribbon Air 160mm up front.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

pressure is entirely dependent on how much leverage your frame puts on the shock.

FWIW i was at 160psi on a ~2.6:1 bike at 78KG body weight.

be careful with dialing in too much rebound damping, in my experience it has a significant effect on perceived compression damping. there's no "check valve" like a Deluxe. If i'm wrong about the architecture, mullen or Dougal can elaborate.

for rebound, after you're comfortable with the sag, just run the bike off a sizable curb seated starting with it fully open until you feel the bike no longer bouncing you off on a secondary oscillation.

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/news/suspension-setup-guide/


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FactoryMatt said:


> pressure is entirely dependent on how much leverage your frame puts on the shock.
> 
> FWIW i was at 160psi on a ~2.6:1 bike at 78KG body weight.
> 
> ...


The rebound does have a check valve on it. So rebound doesn't affect compression at all.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

My last mcleod was defective then.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Dougal said:


> The rebound does have a check valve on it. So rebound doesn't affect compression at all.


I bet he though about packing or pogo which can create feeling like too much compression. I always think that rebound should be fastest possible you can handle. I was wrong  maybe
digressive nature of preloaded stack has big influence on it.

PS or maybe lsr freebled reduce freeflow during compression. That can be felt in chargers1.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Nope. Couldnt even set sag with rebound dialed in. 

This is with the newer gold bleed piston too.

Mine was revalved by a tech before i received it. Could be why. Ill post the tune that he drew on the box tomorrow.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

FactoryMatt said:


> Nope. Couldnt even set sag with rebound dialed in.
> 
> This is with the newer gold bleed piston too.
> 
> Mine was revalved by a tech before i received it. Could be why. Ill post the tune that he drew on the box tomorrow.











There is definitely a check valve. I have run hundreds of different McLeod tunes and never had the issue you are describing, so the tune is not the issue.

What do you mean you couldn't set sag with the rebound dialed? I'm not sure how setting sag would be affected by the lsr check plate. Even if the shim was removed, it would just add a flow path that would make it easier to check sag as oil would flow easier on compression.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

With the rebound dial close to closed the shock felt nearly locked out even when outside lsc setting 4. It was also loose making it difficult to maintain a consistent setting. Just ran it open most of the time. The countersunk screw holding the dial on had no effect on this looseness and the dial almost felt preloaded to return to fully open.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Still waiting to hear back from Manitou on my loose-eyelets. They said they would get back to me, but then have taken an extended break it seems? As in been more than a week since I've heard from them.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Heres the tune FWIW. I loved the shock. Maybe the bleed valve just doesnt flow enough when the rebound needle(?) is close to closed?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

FactoryMatt said:


> With the rebound dial close to closed the shock felt nearly locked out even when outside lsc setting 4. It was also loose making it difficult to maintain a consistent setting. Just ran it open most of the time. The countersunk screw holding the dial on had no effect on this looseness and the dial almost felt preloaded to return to fully open.


That's really odd. Even if the check plate was broken and affecting oil flow rates, oil would still have the normal compression flow paths open, backflows through the rebound needle would just add extra flow that would weaken any lock out, not create one.

This is very odd behavior, you might want to contact tech support.

Side note, you can add a small o ring under the rebound adjuster to add a little tension if needed.

Jayem, I believe a few people took vacation this week because of the holiday. I'll mention something to try to speed it up.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Vespasianus said:


> Just installed a Mcleod on the Ripley:
> 
> View attachment 1262089
> 
> ...


Forgot to mention that after one ride, I realized the air can needed to be reset. Did that and lubed it up as well, as it was bone dry. I would recommend anybody getting a Mcleod reset the air can and add some lube before use.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Looking good. How does it feel off the top? Supple enough?

I used to reset it once a month at least just for peace of mind. Nothings worse than getting half a mile down the trail and realizing your shock is topping out on everything.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

FactoryMatt said:


> Looking good. How does it feel off the top? Supple enough?
> 
> I used to reset it once a month at least just for peace of mind. Nothings worse than getting half a mile down the trail and realizing your shock is topping out on everything.


Feels great. Very plush on the small stuff and takes the big hits really nicely.

I have a Mcleod on my 5-spot as well and I generally reset the car 2-3 times a year. And I agree with you 100%, nothing more annoying than finding out you should have done it!


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## GlugGlug (Jun 19, 2013)

*McLeod on a 2012 Rumblefish?*

My new to me ride is a 2012 Rumblefish Elite. The McLeod looks like the best replacement when the Fox Float RP2 gives up the ghost? I found the Remedy re-fit thread, but not one for a Rumblefish.

The original RP2 is the Trek special size - 7.25" x 1.875 (184mm x 48mm), with threaded upper mount and 120mm of travel. I assume the 7.5" x 2.0" McLeod is my closest fit, and that I will need an internal bumper to limit travel?

I want to prepare for the swap, and not have the bike in pieces waiting for parts. Suggestions on gotchas and what I'll need are appreciated. Should I expect any issues due to the 7.25" vs. 7.5" OAL difference?

I weigh 190 dry. Riding is mostly singletrack.


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## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Should I go for the standard can or king can for a Canyon Spectral 2015 with this kind of leverage curve?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

GlugGlug said:


> My new to me ride is a 2012 Rumblefish Elite. The McLeod looks like the best replacement when the Fox Float RP2 gives up the ghost? I found the Remedy re-fit thread, but not one for a Rumblefish.
> 
> The original RP2 is the Trek special size - 7.25" x 1.875 (184mm x 48mm), with threaded upper mount and 120mm of travel. I assume the 7.5" x 2.0" McLeod is my closest fit, and that I will need an internal bumper to limit travel?
> 
> ...


I think that would be the best option - 7.5 X 2.0 with two spacers down to 7.25 X 1.75. I think Manitou will send them to you for free if you call them.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

good candidate for king can. it looks sufficiently progressive on its own.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Boronite said:


> Should I go for the standard can or king can for a Canyon Spectral 2015 with this kind of leverage curve?
> View attachment 1263387


As factorymatt said, that's a pretty progressive curve. Definitely a king can, possibly in the full volume setting.


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## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Thanks for the info. Is it straight forward to change to a king can yourself? Are there any guides somewhere?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

there's probably a service guide on youtube. make sure to have some of this on hand as well. same as sram butter but cheaper cutting out the middleman.

https://www.amazon.com/Slickoleum-F...ocphy=9032096&hvtargid=pla-569750954081&psc=1

it requires a special wrench, but is actually easier once you have it than fussing with a strap wrench on a non manitou shock. just twist it off, and twist the new one on. the negative spring pressure will put up a fight so make sure you're pressing down HARD while twisting so as not to strip out the first threads.

https://www.amazon.com/Manitou-McLeod-Air-Wrench-172-32426-K001/dp/B07BLM2XR6


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## GlugGlug (Jun 19, 2013)

Vespasianus said:


> I think that would be the best option - 7.5 X 2.0 with two spacers down to 7.25 X 1.75. I think Manitou will send them to you for free if you call them.


Thank you. I am still trying to get up to speed on these details.

I found a leverage curve for the 2013 Rumblefish. It should be very similar to the 2012. Is there any particular tuning I should plan for?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

GlugGlug said:


> Thank you. I am still trying to get up to speed on these details.
> 
> I found a leverage curve for the 2013 Rumblefish. It should be very similar to the 2012. Is there any particular tuning I should plan for?


That looks to go from a 2.48 to 2.40 rate. Not really much of a change at all. I think a regular can should work fine.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

*King Can*

What are the general characteristics or symptoms that would indicate a potential benefit from switching to a King Can vs. the standard air can?

Do certain suspension kinematics typically lend themselves to benefit from a King Can?

Likewise, are there suspension attributes that typically do not benefit from a King Can or are made worse by a King Can?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

bottoming out and/or not enough mid stroke support = NO king can

not using full travel = king can


the more progressive the leverage rate curve is, the more volume you can use in the positive chamber to give the bike a more "coil like" feel. 

the less progressive the leverage rate curve, the more "help" you need from the shock to keep from blowing through the travel, in the form of restricted pos volume.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kartracer said:


> What are the general characteristics or symptoms that would indicate a potential benefit from switching to a King Can vs. the standard air can?
> 
> Do certain suspension kinematics typically lend themselves to benefit from a King Can?
> 
> Likewise, are there suspension attributes that typically do not benefit from a King Can or are made worse by a King Can?


Tune by frequency. If sag is too much then you need more volume and the king-can.


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## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Hm, pretty sure I need a King Can. Even at 100psi (I'm ~75kg/165lbs kitted up) I still can't use full travel. I have about 1-2cm (that's about 0.39 to 0.79 inferior measurement units) left on the stanchion.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

What sag are you running? What is the leverage ratio? How much travel does your shock actually have? 200x51 version has about 10mm stanchion left at bottom out for example.


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## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

About 30% sag. The bike has 140mm of travel. Length is 190x50. Leverage ratio is this (Canyon Spectral):


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Looking at the progressivity- I'd say you really want to consider the King can, for comparison my bike has same shock stroke for 130mm of travel, but 17% progressivity as compared to yours 23.5 %, in my case when riding normally I use 90% of the travel, which is a sign that the shock is sitting properly high in its travel, but when I hit something large enough (eg. 1m drop to flat) I'm able to use full travel at once, with no harsh bottom out, so I'd say the normal can is ideal in my case (30% sag @90psi, 55kg rider)


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Anyone know if there is a 165x45 trunion available
For the McLeod? 
Thanks


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

elsinore said:


> Anyone know if there is a 165x45 trunion available
> For the McLeod?
> Thanks


No trunnion mount shocks yet.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Yesterday on the trails my Mcleod started squeaking. It would squeak for a few minutes then get quiet again. People in my riding group were making fun of me. They were like, "Oh Tyler, who is your mechanic, hmmmm?" It has about 30 hours on it. Turn up the volume.






Anyone know what I need to do to fix this?


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## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Schulze said:


> Yesterday on the trails my Mcleod started squeaking. It would squeak for a few minutes then get quiet again. People in my riding group were making fun of me. They were like, "Oh Tyler, who is your mechanic, hmmmm?" It has about 30 hours on it. Turn up the volume.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mine is also making that sound, even though it is brand new.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Boronite said:


> Mine is also making that sound, even though it is brand new.


Mine does the same and it seems to be caused by the foam ring rubbing against the shaft. The drier it gets, the worse the sound.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Ok I'll just pull off the air can and add some grease.

edit - I did an air can service and greased with fox slick honey. Hopefully that's a good grease 'cause it's all I have for the moment.


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## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Is the extremely expensive Manitou-only wrench needed to get the air can off? Or can you use your bare hands or something else?


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

I used adjustable wrench. Put some electrical tape to the jaws to avoid any scratches. Worked well.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

For the first removal you might need to wrap a tube around it (for better grip and leverage) but otherwise hands are all you need.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Boronite said:


> Is the extremely expensive Manitou-only wrench needed to get the air can off? Or can you use your bare hands or something else?


Large strap wrench worked for me.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Knipex Pliers Wrench works as well. This has the advantage that it is an amazing piece of kit that you can use for multiple things. Nearly every pro mechanic uses one as well.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

After the "whistling noise" complaint, I realised that I haven't serviced mine yet, and it's making similar noise (it always did, but it's louder than before) and since I rode 3000m of gnarly vertical drop (2x times that for elevation, 600m in one go) last week alone, I thought it'd be good to peek inside, just to be safe 



Good thing I did as the cylinder walls started to eat away at the o rings and foam ring, no oir or grease left inside to be seen- I put it there myself, don't know what intervals Manitou recommends, but this is the state of it after 50 hours of mild-heavy riding, mayby I should invest in a jar of slick honey? Atm I'm using silicone Teflon grease, it's nice and slick, but it's very sticky and low viscosity at the same time, so it might be lasting shorter than optimal, I'm using it in conjunction with Fox Gold oil. 
There is no working area wear to be seen- the anodising is really nice and strong (a lot stronger than RS or Sr for example- these damaged easily, Manitou is quite a lot tougher) 
more surprisingly to me- the cheap roller bearing is also in perfect condition still, and considering I saved 100$ on it compared to RWS, I'd say it's money well spent, even though I had to make shims to fit it myself from a filler gauge


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

piciu256 said:


> After the "whistling noise" complaint, I realised that I haven't serviced mine yet, and it's making similar noise (it always did, but it's louder than before) and since I rode 3000m of gnarly vertical drop (2x times that for elevation, 600m in one go) last week alone, I thought it'd be good to peek inside, just to be safe
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Adding fix gold ( or any oil) to the air can adds short term performance gains at the cost of long service intervals. The oil washes the grease away from the seals and oil/grease combo will get passed the wipers faster in my experience.

Slicoleum ( slick honey) only is the preferred lubrication of pretty much every manufacture, as the performance to longevity ratio is the best currently available. You can add oil, or use oil only, but you will need to service the air can more often to keep it smooth and prevent wear.

I personally add 1cc of supergliss to my personal air cans, but service them ever 5-10 hours to keep performance at the highest possible level. (To be fair, I am constantly testing new tunes or internal changes, so I'm I'm rebuilding anyway).

On my wife's and friends Manitou stuff, I use slicoleum only. The performance is 95% as good with 5x the longevity.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Been mixing oil/grease in my McLeod with the thought of keeping main seal wet and thus keeping negative chamber air in.

Good insight, might reconsider and just use grease next time around.

On another note, anybody have luck getting yellow piston, been bugging Zac for it for a while but nothing out of it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## detsortehul (Jun 25, 2007)

Here is my experience with the McLeod after ~400 km:
It replaced a well working Fox DPS Evol, serviced regularly.
Much better small bump compliance. Now I can even feel the difference when pedaling vs. coasting on my 5010 V2. I never understood people that says the suspension firms up under chain tension on this bike, now I can feel the difference.
I always run fully open. I may even want an even "more open" mode (my weight is 70 kg).
The rebound knob is annoying: It easily moves by itself and it is difficult to put in the same position once dialed in. In reality it pretty much only has 5 positions: 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100% and has to be checked before every ride.

Major criticism:
I am not able to source 3-in-1 IFP service tool in Europe/Denmark.
I asked Manitou directly but no answer. Can anyone help?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

detsortehul said:


> Major criticism:
> I am not able to source 3-in-1 IFP service tool in Europe/Denmark.
> I asked Manitou directly but no answer. Can anyone help?


We ship worldwide.

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/ifp-valve-tool-keychain-manitou.html


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

mullen119 said:


> Adding fix gold ( or any oil) to the air can adds short term performance gains at the cost of long service intervals.


How long are we talking here? Less than 30 hours?

I went on a couple rides and my air can lubing did the trick to eliminate the squeaks. I'll do that monthly now I guess.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Schulze said:


> How long are we talking here? Less than 30 hours?
> 
> I went on a couple rides and my air can lubing did the trick to eliminate the squeaks. I'll do that monthly now I guess.


If using oil and Grease, I would go around 20-25 hours. You could push it to 30 in a pinch.

If your worried about short service intervals, use grease only.



croakies said:


> Been mixing oil/grease in my McLeod with the thought of keeping main seal wet and thus keeping negative chamber air in.
> 
> Good insight, might reconsider and just use grease next time around.
> 
> ...


I don't want to speak for Zack, but he probably isn't going to send them out at his cost. Just like any other suspension service center wouldn't, it would be money out of his pocket. I would guess that he would install one with a full rebuild service.

If you want one for self install, you will need to go through tech support. The



detsortehul said:


> Here is my experience with the McLeod after ~400 km:
> It replaced a well working Fox DPS Evol, serviced regularly.
> Much better small bump compliance. Now I can even feel the difference when pedaling vs. coasting on my 5010 V2. I never understood people that says the suspension firms up under chain tension on this bike, now I can feel the difference.
> I always run fully open. I may even want an even "more open" mode (my weight is 70 kg).
> ...


Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I love the lack of clickson the McLeod rebound. I always find myself in between clicks on most suspension. I have never had any issue with any of mine moving either, but I have heard that complaint pop up a few times recently. maybe it's something with a recent batch? I'll look into it.

The McLeod rebound has just over a full turn of adjustment. Start fully closed and pay attention to the amount you turn it. For example, I run my rebound 5/8 turn out from full closed. This makes for a easily repeatable setting. You can even from there as 1/16th or a turn makes a pretty significant difference


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## aapocketz (Jul 9, 2019)

If Manitou wants people to buy their stuff, they surely cannot expect people to pay ~$90 for a small keychain tool to be shipped from New Zealand. This tool looks like its supposed to be $10 at most. Why isn't customer support getting back to him?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

their new PM or MD seems impressive and seems like he gets it. i do hope they address these peripheral items. $70 for stamped alloy wrench with a nylon insert is a bit high.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

aapocketz said:


> If Manitou wants people to buy their stuff, they surely cannot expect people to pay ~$90 for a small keychain tool to be shipped from New Zealand. This tool looks like its supposed to be $10 at most. Why isn't customer support getting back to him?


That's $US45. Don't get confused by $NZ and the NZ sales tax which doesn't apply to export.

I'm not sure how you expect a 4 piece machined interlocking stainless steel tool to be sold for $10.


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## aapocketz (Jul 9, 2019)

Dougal said:


> That's $US45. Don't get confused by $NZ and the NZ sales tax which doesn't apply to export.


I went through the checkout process, entered my zip code and got something like $86 USD shipped. I didn't complete the purchase.



Dougal said:


> I'm not sure how you expect a 4 piece machined interlocking stainless steel tool to be sold for $10.


If done right manufacturing cost of this keychain should be minimal. Just for comparison purposes, Rockshox has a widely available IFP adapter which appears to be widely available at about $7 (https://www.sram.com/en/rockshox/models/tl-rst-vla-a1).

Regardless of price, I think the availability is a huge red flag, and its a legitimate concern for anyone buying anything from Manitou. Even looking at the video posted above about the Mara, they are really pushing the serviceability of their products as a core feature, so any necessary tools and parts are key!


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

aapocketz said:


> Regardless of price, I think the availability is a huge red flag, and its a legitimate concern for anyone buying anything from Manitou. Even looking at the video posted above about the Mara, they are really pushing the serviceability of their products as a core feature, so any necessary tools and parts are key!


This (unfortunately) seems like the truth.

Over six weeks ago I decided to take the plunge on a mcleod. Was going to purchase it through a german site, but Dougal has made comments in the past about supporting local distributors, so fine, went into my LBS. Nobody there knew Manitou was still in business. So I went to my next LBS. More blank stares.

At this point I contact the local distributor - who was "surprised" that the to lbs that I mentioned didnt know anything about Manitou. So he was going to order the shock and hardware for me. Told me 2 weeks. Exellent, I am over 6 weeks away from a bike vacation, so that gives me lots of time.

Next day he calls me an says the mounting hardware size I need is unavailable - but I can get the ones that are .2mm to big. I have access to a lathe, so fine, I can machine those down. Now to wait for the shock.

four weeks go by, and I have heard nothing. I call, and am advised it just arrived, and he will call back once its in his inventory.

close to two more weeks now and still no call back. And I go on my trip in 2 days.

Good thing I have (and really really love) my Mattoc. It shouldnt be this difficult to get stuff.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

aapocketz said:


> I went through the checkout process, entered my zip code and got something like $86 USD shipped. I didn't complete the purchase.


That's $NZD86. There entire shockcraft site is $NZD. We are working on an international site with different currencies which will be at www.shockcraft.com



aapocketz said:


> If done right manufacturing cost of this keychain should be minimal. Just for comparison purposes, Rockshox has a widely available IFP adapter which appears to be widely available at about $7 (https://www.sram.com/en/rockshox/models/tl-rst-vla-a1).
> 
> Regardless of price, I think the availability is a huge red flag, and its a legitimate concern for anyone buying anything from Manitou. Even looking at the video posted above about the Mara, they are really pushing the serviceability of their products as a core feature, so any necessary tools and parts are key!


The two tools are not comparable in complexity or manufacturing cost. The SRAM tool is one alloy piece with an o-ring. The Manitou tool is 3 different tools (valve core remover, valve adapter and 5 point cap removal tool) that assemble together into a 4th piece and keychain for safe-keeping.

Regarding availability. Every bike shop on the planet can buy these tools from their regional distributor. You should ask them why they don't?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

006_007 said:


> This (unfortunately) seems like the truth.
> 
> Over six weeks ago I decided to take the plunge on a mcleod. Was going to purchase it through a german site, but Dougal has made comments in the past about supporting local distributors, so fine, went into my LBS. Nobody there knew Manitou was still in business. So I went to my next LBS. More blank stares.
> 
> ...


If your local distributor aren't delivering, contact Manitou.

The LBS problem is unfortunately real and shock hardware is a nightmare. Why can't everyone just use 21.9mm with 8mm bolts?


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## GlugGlug (Jun 19, 2013)

Dougal said:


> The SRAM tool is one alloy piece with an o-ring. The Manitou tool is 3 different tools (valve core remover, valve adapter and 5 point cap removal tool) that assemble together into a 4th piece and keychain for safe-keeping.


The design of the shock could be optimized to reduce specialized tool complexity and cost.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GlugGlug said:


> The design of the shock could be optimized to reduce specialized tool complexity and cost.


IFP chambers and caps are designed to be different so normal users don't mistakenly undo them while looking for adjusters or air chamber valves.

To put this special tool cost ($US45) in perspective. My floor pump cost a lot more than the one special tool you need to service a Manitou shock at home.

Many shock manufacturers don't supply tools to the public at any price.


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## aapocketz (Jul 9, 2019)

Dougal said:


> IFP chambers and caps are designed to be different so normal users don't mistakenly undo them while looking for adjusters or air chamber valves.
> 
> To put this special tool cost ($US45) in perspective. My floor pump cost a lot more than the one special tool you need to service a Manitou shock at home.
> 
> Many shock manufacturers don't supply tools to the public at any price.


How much was your floor pump? This fancy keychain tool, with it's amazing 4 piece design, costs more than my high pressure shock pump. It costs more than my torque wrench. And the only person who says it's a good value appears to be the only person on the internet who is selling it, so maybe not the least biased person...

I messaged manitou via their website. I haven't gotten a response, not even an auto-reply, which seems unusual. Does anyone know of a contact that I can speak with at Manitou to ask some questions?


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

006_007 said:


> This (unfortunately) seems like the truth.
> 
> Over six weeks ago I decided to take the plunge on a mcleod. Was going to purchase it through a german site, but Dougal has made comments in the past about supporting local distributors, so fine, went into my LBS. Nobody there knew Manitou was still in business. So I went to my next LBS. More blank stares.
> 
> ...


Honestly, try Dirt Merchant. I ordered my Mcleod from them and it came in a reasonable time (~2 weeks, there is demand) and with the reducers I asked for installed.

On the Manitoumtb site, most sizes are listed as available right now, so you can always go that route.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

aapocketz said:


> How much was your floor pump? This fancy keychain tool, with it's amazing 4 piece design, costs more than my high pressure shock pump. It costs more than my torque wrench. And the only person who says it's a good value appears to be the only person on the internet who is selling it, so maybe not the least biased person...


https://ride.lezyne.com/collections/floor-pumps-high-volume-trail/products/classic-over-drive
$US70. Which is a bargain next to my $US91 front tyre (27x2.6" 3C): https://shop.maxxis.com/c/minion-dhf-bike-tire

You can always pay someone else to do your service.



aapocketz said:


> I messaged manitou via their website. I haven't gotten a response, not even an auto-reply, which seems unusual. Does anyone know of a contact that I can speak with at Manitou to ask some questions?


https://manitoumtb.com/contact/

Hayes Bicycle Group- Customer Care and Technical Support

Phone: 888.686.3472
[email protected]


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## GlugGlug (Jun 19, 2013)

Dougal said:


> IFP chambers and caps are designed to be different so normal users don't mistakenly undo them while looking for adjusters or air chamber valves.
> 
> To put this special tool cost ($US45) in perspective. My floor pump cost a lot more than the one special tool you need to service a Manitou shock at home.
> 
> Many shock manufacturers don't supply tools to the public at any price.


The competition in the industry that is driving companies to open up their shock platforms to end users is great. Of course in the 1990's many of us had our own shock dynos and were custom valving our Penske race car dampers, often at the track.

As a designer and engineer who bought his first home CNC machine in 1997 to support my for-fun projects, I like elegance in design and execution. I am at the point in my life where I don't like proprietary tools in cases where it could have been avoided. Sometimes a design is so incredibly optimized that bespoke is the only way to go and anything less would be a significant compromise, but I don't think this is one of those cases. Btw, a bike pump is a generic tool, so it is in no way comparable.

There is an old saying that fits so many situations - "Do you want to make great shock absorbers or proprietary service tools?"

I appreciate the need to keep folks from hosing themselves by messing with the IFP - that does not make anyone happy, nor would stories of oil blowing out on the trail - regardless of cause. If I am designing a product, I'd like to not have a proprietary cap, and a proprietary tool to open it. If the cap must be custom due to packaging constraints, weight, sealing, etc, then then find a way to use a common tool.

In this case, I believe elegance would be not requiring a proprietary tool.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

GlugGlug said:


> The competition in the industry that is driving companies to open up their shock platforms to end users is great. Of course in the 1990's many of us had our own shock dynos and were custom valving our Penske race car dampers, often at the track.
> 
> As a designer and engineer who bought his first home CNC machine in 1997 to support my for-fun projects, I like elegance in design and execution. I am at the point in my life where I don't like proprietary tools in cases where it could have been avoided. Sometimes a design is so incredibly optimized that bespoke is the only way to go and anything less would be a significant compromise, but I don't think this is one of those cases. Btw, a bike pump is a generic tool, so it is in no way comparable.
> 
> ...


Rock shocks ifp cap is supposed to use a special tool, but you can rig it off with needle nose pliers. Fox and others use the rubber plug/needle set up to (expensive) and fills the Allen key with plastic to prevent users from having access. I'm really not getting what the issue is. Manitou uses a special cap that comes with the needed ifp adapter. The 3in1 ifp tool, which is far superior to the cheap RS tool that everyone modifies to make it work properly, is the only special tool required to to a full damper rebuild.

I'm not quite sure what the complaint is, but if you want products more user serviceable, good luck. I don't know of one, and I know for a fact no one else puts out comprehensive tuning guides with Dyno info of various shim stacks to try.


----------



## aapocketz (Jul 9, 2019)

mullen119 said:


> I'm not quite sure what the complaint is


1. No immediate response to customer service inquiries.
2. There appears to be supply chain issues, particularly with parts and special tools. 
3. This single special tool required to service the shock seemed a bit overpriced for what it is, and difficult to source.

I believe these concerns are valid, especially for a company that doesn't have extensive networks, and they are marketing themselves as being repair friendly. Using a proprietary tools and anti-tamper keys to prevent service seems antithetical to their goals.

Your response seems to be a bit of a straw man argue about the quality of the IFP tool itself, which I don't think myself or anyone has really brought up as a criticism. I haven't even seen the tool outside of photos. Its just a tiny air adapter though.

Reading the forums and seeing what you and Dougal have posted, I really don't want to downplay the information you folks have posted here, it seems super useful. I am not trying to be combative. I am just sharing my observations from someone considering this product, hopefully in a constructive way. Cheers.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GlugGlug said:


> The competition in the industry that is driving companies to open up their shock platforms to end users is great. Of course in the 1990's many of us had our own shock dynos and were custom valving our Penske race car dampers, often at the track.
> 
> As a designer and engineer who bought his first home CNC machine in 1997 to support my for-fun projects, I like elegance in design and execution. I am at the point in my life where I don't like proprietary tools in cases where it could have been avoided. Sometimes a design is so incredibly optimized that bespoke is the only way to go and anything less would be a significant compromise, but I don't think this is one of those cases. Btw, a bike pump is a generic tool, so it is in no way comparable.
> 
> ...


I'm going to suggest you go ahead and design up a shock that does everything while needing no proprietary tools. Because that process will show exactly why they need proprietary tools. There is simply not the space for conventional fasteners and schrader valves.

As a service centre we have a whole workshop full of proprietary tools. For every single brand.
Yet here we are fielding complaints about the price of a $US45 tool that any bike shop can order in for the most user friendly shock available.

We live in a time where $US10K bikes are commonplace. Yet $US45 service tools that last a lifetime are too much.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

aapocketz said:


> 1. No immediate response to customer service inquiries.
> 2. There appears to be supply chain issues, particularly with parts and special tools.
> 3. This single special tool required to service the shock seemed a bit overpriced for what it is, and difficult to source.
> 
> ...


Did you email [email protected] or go a different route? The phone number is the best way to go with any company as emails can go to spam or get lost in the shuffle.

Supply chain issues are not the problem. There are plenty of the tools in the warehouse. The issue is more on the demand side. Manitou is a small company, most bikes you see will have RS or Fox suspension on them, it a small percentage will have Manitou or another brand. Out of that small percentage, only a couple people are interested in doing full rebuilds and owning the ifp tool. Online retailers don't want to sit on inventory (and pay inventory tax) when the item is going to just sit there. A few websites are carrying most of the small parts you will ever need. The rest can be ordered through a bike shop or online retailer through special request. Hayes is starting to sell some items direct to consumer. Hopefully it takes off and will solve these issues once and for all. For reference, the ifp tool is PN 83-2694.

If you hold the Manitou tool and the RS tool in your hand, you will see why its more expensive. It's a much better design with a plunger that prevents air loss, and is also 3 tools in 1. Most people modify the RS version just to get it to work properly. On top of that, economics of scale plays into the cost. Sram makes and sells more because they have more shocks in the field. The more of something you manufacture, the lower the cost is per unit. Hopefully more people see that the McLeod is a higher performing shock and get Into tuning them.


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

I emailed them about a shock service and they got back in 24hrs.


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## aapocketz (Jul 9, 2019)

mullen119 said:


> Did you email [email protected] or go a different route? The phone number is the best way to go with any company as emails can go to spam or get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> Supply chain issues are not the problem. There are plenty of the tools in the warehouse. The issue is more on the demand side. Manitou is a small company, most bikes you see will have RS or Fox suspension on them, it a small percentage will have Manitou or another brand. Out of that small percentage, only a couple people are interested in doing full rebuilds and owning the ifp tool. Online retailers don't want to sit on inventory (and pay inventory tax) when the item is going to just sit there. A few websites are carrying most of the small parts you will ever need. The rest can be ordered through a bike shop or online retailer through special request. Hayes is starting to sell some items direct to consumer. Hopefully it takes off and will solve these issues once and for all. For reference, the ifp tool is PN 83-2694.
> 
> If you hold the Manitou tool and the RS tool in your hand, you will see why its more expensive. It's a much better design with a plunger that prevents air loss, and is also 3 tools in 1. Most people modify the RS version just to get it to work properly. On top of that, economics of scale plays into the cost. Sram makes and sells more because they have more shocks in the field. The more of something you manufacture, the lower the cost is per unit. Hopefully more people see that the McLeod is a higher performing shock and get Into tuning them.


Thanks for the feedback, definitely interesting. I don't think you really allayed any of the undeniable concerns, but at least you put it in perspective. They are a small company and there may be various reasons parts aren't available or overpriced. It would be cool of them to sell it on their website or have a distributor online they work with that stocks the common tools and parts. Also they should at least setup an auto-reply and have things go to a CRM type system to manage. There are tiny companies that get this right. I emailed them a couple days ago from the email on the website, no response. Phone number went to an answering machine. Hopefully they are putting the effort into the shock being top notch!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

aapocketz said:


> It would be cool of them to sell it on their website or* have a distributor online they work with that stocks the common tools and parts.*


Like this one?
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-hayes


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

The Manitou support (partly thanks to Dougal) in NZ seems great. However, the level of support and availability of parts and knowledge differs per country. For example, in the Netherlands, I'm often forced to source and check things online. The shops and distributor can source the shocks and forks and sometimes seal kits, but not much else. Luckily, most parts are available in our neighbor Germany. 
To be fair though, I had to tell the Fox distributor that there was an option to upgrade air springs on the Fox 34 (still replaced it with a superior Mattoc afterwards). So it seems to be a Dutch problem.
Let's just say I'm jealous of you Kiwi's


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

aapocketz said:


> Thanks for the feedback, definitely interesting. I don't think you really allayed any of the undeniable concerns, but at least you put it in perspective. They are a small company and there may be various reasons parts aren't available or overpriced. It would be cool of them to sell it on their website or have a distributor online they work with that stocks the common tools and parts. Also they should at least setup an auto-reply and have things go to a CRM type system to manage. There are tiny companies that get this right. I emailed them a couple days ago from the email on the website, no response. Phone number went to an answering machine. Hopefully they are putting the effort into the shock being top notch!


Dougal sells everything and ships worldwide.

Universal cycles carries almost everything
https://www.universalcycles.com/search.php?q=Manitou+

So does bikeparts.com
https://www.bikeparts.com/global?s=Manitou

Again, anything not in stock or not listed can be ordered at a local shop. You could even contact one of the websites and ask them to order it. PN 83-2694.

nd I'll say it again, emails can get lost in translation. Go to your email and type in [email protected] and send them another email if you didn't get a response. If the phone number goes to voicemail, leave a message and they will call you back.


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## aapocketz (Jul 9, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Like this one?
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-hayes


A US based distributor, I am not ordering parts from New Zealand. Mullen mentioned some other distributors but none of them have the tool we were discussing in stock. Thanks for the info!


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

aapocketz said:


> A US based distributor, I am not ordering parts from New Zealand. Mullen mentioned some other distributors but none of them have the tool we were discussing in stock. Thanks for the info!


I check yesterday, there are plenty in stock at the Hayes warehouse, just need a shop or ask a website to order it


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

Sell direct. Problem solved. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Dougal said:


> We live in a time where $US10K bikes are commonplace. Yet $US45 service tools that last a lifetime are too much.


$45usd is reasonable for that tool.

What I want to do is go to a USA based supplier who has aaaaaaalllll the parts and tools for my Mcleod.

I also think the Mcleod should ship with the conversion hardware for the remote. If I want to use my own remote, I have to pay $60usd for the MILO kit, then toss the remote. So all that just for a spring, bracket and some screws. Ouch.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

I have had some issues with my McLeod but one thing is for sure, the customer service was great from them, they went above and beyond to help me out.

outside of the shock on my bike ive never seen another manitou shock in the wild, which is pretty insane.. just shows how small their market is presently.

Still a really good product, but some extra hassles involved as well.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

trumphair said:


> Sell direct. Problem solved.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Some items are currently selling direct

https://shop.hayesperformance.com/collections/manitou

I will try to get the 3 in 1 tool added to the list since it's not in stock elsewhere.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

You do have to bug them a few times but Manitou service has gone way way above and beyond in the past for me as well so no complaints.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

aapocketz said:


> A US based distributor, I am not ordering parts from New Zealand. Mullen mentioned some other distributors but none of them have the tool we were discussing in stock. Thanks for the info!


dood, i ordered mine from Universal Cycles (a big QBP customer) back in 2018 with no sweat. had it 3 days later.

Item #: 88570-215605
Description: Manitou Rear Shock 3-in-1 IFP Service Tool - Tool
Quantity: 1 @ $40.00

edit: looks like it's out of stock LOL. sorry....

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=88570

i'll sell you mine if you need one asap


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

aapocketz said:


> If Manitou wants people to buy their stuff, they surely cannot expect people to pay ~$90 for a small keychain tool to be shipped from New Zealand. This tool looks like its supposed to be $10 at most. Why isn't customer support getting back to him?


Call me confused but you are complaining about a tool for a shock you don't have? Are you unwilling to buy the shock without access to the tool?


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Manitou customer service has always gotten back to me. I once emailed about getting the yellow piston, and at first, they were a little slow to reply. But I was asking for a freebie so I was patient. A week later they responded, apologizing since their team was out at a race, but once they got back, they would send me the yellow piston.

They sent me a yellow piston, a bunch of shims, and a bunch of stickers too. The thing is, with just that tool, their video on youtube, and Mullen/Dougal, you don't need much else unless something really breaks and you need to send it in.

I'm a manitou fan for good now. $45 tool to save $200 in service each time? And the service is super easy just watch the video.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> Manitou customer service has always gotten back to me. I once emailed about getting the yellow piston, and at first, they were a little slow to reply. But I was asking for a freebie so I was patient. A week later they responded, apologizing since their team was out at a race, but once they got back, they would send me the yellow piston.
> 
> They sent me a yellow piston, a bunch of shims, and a bunch of stickers too. The thing is, with just that tool, their video on youtube, and Mullen/Dougal, you don't need much else unless something really breaks and you need to send it in.
> 
> I'm a manitou fan for good now. $45 tool to save $200 in service each time? And the service is super easy just watch the video.


Whats the deal with the yellow piston? is this an upgrade? what does it fix? sorry if I missed.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

has bleed holes in it. less LSC. works well.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

FactoryMatt said:


> has bleed holes in it. less LSC. works well.


interesting, I have an updated shock form them as a warranty, wonder if it has this piston.. anyway to check without disassembling the damper?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

seamarsh said:


> interesting, I have an updated shock form them as a warranty, wonder if it has this piston.. anyway to check without disassembling the damper?


I believe you received the gold piston, there is no way to check without disassembly.

The bleed piston is not to reduce LSC. The idea is to allow a very small amount of oil flow unrestricted. This helps with small bump sensitivity and the response time when transitioning between strokes. It's a subtle, but noticable difference.

The bleed


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You always heard back, good for you, here in Poland I sent quite a few emails through the Manitou website to eu customer support and got zero response, I once asked for US support, and they did reply to my question but no free stuff for me.


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## hurck (Apr 26, 2012)

Yup, in Europe the support is non existent. The distributor here could care less and seems to have no clue about the products. Luckily there's this forum and some good vids on youtube from hayes/manitou themselves, otherwise i would be hesitant to buy manitou products.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Mac1987 said:


> Knipex Pliers Wrench works as well. This has the advantage that it is an amazing piece of kit that you can use for multiple things. Nearly every pro mechanic uses one as well.


Thanks for this info! This is the tool I've always needed but never knew existed. Worked perfectly to swap over to the King Can.

Now I just need a decent inexpensive shock bushing tool...any recommendations?


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

detsortehul said:


> Here is my experience with the McLeod after ~400 km:
> It replaced a well working Fox DPS Evol, serviced regularly.
> Much better small bump compliance. Now I can even feel the difference when pedaling vs. coasting on my 5010 V2. I never understood people that says the suspension firms up under chain tension on this bike, now I can feel the difference.
> I always run fully open. I may even want an even "more open" mode (my weight is 70 kg)...


Great to hear, i'm preparing to replace a DPS as well. I've read here and elsewhere that the King Can is perfect for our weight class and should give the openness you seek.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Heist30 said:


> Now I just need a decent inexpensive shock bushing tool...any recommendations?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Shock...=183819689891ea85e3b8ae0c43bb9d01c72f95323de8


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

FactoryMatt said:


> Item #: 88570-215605
> Description: Manitou Rear Shock 3-in-1 IFP Service Tool - Tool
> Quantity: 1 @ $40.00
> 
> ...


Back in stock for $40.


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## aapocketz (Jul 9, 2019)

Hey just an update, I was able to source the 3 in 1 tool, $40 shipped, so not bad. I guess it was just out of stock in lots of suppliers. I do admit, its machined rather well, the pictures don't do it justice. Haven't used it yet though, but want to have it on hand.

I purchased a McLeod, but I skimmed this thread to make sure I knew what I was getting myself into. I am attracted to the price, performance and serviceability of the shock as an upgrade to a Monarch RT on a Santa Cruz HT. I have only done a few rides but so far no issues. The compression and rebound adjustments are a vast improvement so far.

For anyone looking for mounting hardware for a Santa Cruz Hightower Gen 1 I had no issues with the Fox 5 piece bushings 8x21.8mm and the RWC 8x21.85mm needle bearings on the rear as well. Have to press out the DU bushings that come with the shock of course, but there is no play and things rotate really well. Thanks for the help with my setup!


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Jayem said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Shock...=183819689891ea85e3b8ae0c43bb9d01c72f95323de8


 Yep I have that one works like a charm at like 1/4 the cost of most.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

aapocketz said:


> Hey just an update, I was able to source the 3 in 1 tool, $40 shipped, so not bad. I guess it was just out of stock in lots of suppliers. I do admit, its machined rather well, the pictures don't do it justice. Haven't used it yet though, but want to have it on hand.
> 
> I purchased a McLeod, but I skimmed this thread to make sure I knew what I was getting myself into. I am attracted to the price, performance and serviceability of the shock as an upgrade to a Monarch RT on a Santa Cruz HT. I have only done a few rides but so far no issues. The compression and rebound adjustments are a vast improvement so far.
> 
> ...


Very nice. Honestly, I have had a Mcleod on one bike for close to 4 years (!) and I have not done anything except an air-can lube and reset every 4 months and air can seal kit every 18 months. Hopefully you will never need to use the 3:1 unless you want to tinker and modify the shock.


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## timber715 (Jul 10, 2019)

Need a store that sells Manitou McLeod air shock* 1.50x6.5 in or near Irvine CA please... I am just requesting a friend to get one for me as I am in the Philippines. He will only be there till July 31st hence an actual store is my best bet. Thank you in advance...


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

My rebound dial has stopped rotating fully and is very hard to turn. Does this require a full rebuild to fix?


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Bluman8 said:


> My rebound dial has stopped rotating fully and is very hard to turn. Does this require a full rebuild to fix?


Mine did the same thing, but just left it set.

There is a small allen screw on back that I think you can adjust that controls the movement of rebound screw/knob, and think it just tightened up by itself?


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

In2falling said:


> Mine did the same thing, but just left it set.
> 
> There is a small allen screw on back that I think you can adjust that controls the movement of rebound screw/knob, and think it just tightened up by itself?
> 
> View attachment 1267535


Ahh... hopefully it's that, it will save me a whole lot of trouble.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I kind of groaned when I had to buy the manitou tool, but I bought it years ago anyway. 

The manitou tool, a seal kit, and a jug of oil is still considerably cheaper than just one fox service... and now you have full access to custom tune the thing yourself. Relative to other brands, the tool is really the cheap way to go. I cant imagine not having it, and the fact that it exists at all and allows home tuning makes it incredibly valuable as a whole.

But mostly, just look at it in terms of service. That tool pays for itself after you use it once.


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## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

I've just installed the King Can, and everything went smoothly up until the last part when I was threading the can back onto the shock while compressing it in my frame. The can screwed on fully, but I never reached a hard stop as described in the service video. The can just rotates if I attempt to screw it on further. Is this normal? It appears to hold air just fine.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm afraid you stripped the threads or didn't put the can on straight...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Boronite said:


> I've just installed the King Can, and everything went smoothly up until the last part when I was threading the can back onto the shock while compressing it in my frame. The can screwed on fully, but I never reached a hard stop as described in the service video. The can just rotates if I attempt to screw it on further. Is this normal? It appears to hold air just fine.


The whole can is turning or just the outer can?


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## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The whole can is turning or just the outer can?


Ah yes, it's probably the king can's outer can that is turning. I don't have the Manitou special wrench so I was using my hands + a oil filter rubber strap tool to tighten it. Is the special tool needed to get it tight enough?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Boronite said:


> Ah yes, it's probably the king can's outer can that is turning. I don't have the Manitou special wrench so I was using my hands + a oil filter rubber strap tool to tighten it. Is the special tool needed to get it tight enough?


Nah, just use a plumbers wrench from the hardware store to turn the nut on the bottom.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Boronite said:


> Ah yes, it's probably the king can's outer can that is turning. I don't have the Manitou special wrench so I was using my hands + a oil filter rubber strap tool to tighten it. Is the special tool needed to get it tight enough?


I just pull the sleeve off when installing the air can


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Installed the King McLeod today, did two quick .7mi runs up and down a Triple R (rocky,rooty,rutty) old cart path and cannot find the words to describe the experience! Sooo much difference over the DPS. I’m 150lb, set the pressure at 150 and rebound where it felt good in the lot. The bike felt so much more stable floating through the ruts and over raised roots/rocks. Felt like I was taking it easy for the first runs but did 1s under my PR and it could be pushed harder. Used 2/3 travel, about the same as the fork, so will incrementally drop pressure and adjust rebound after a couple drops to see where it lands.

Update: 120psi with rebound at 50% seems about right to start with...


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

I kind of want to try a king can on my Primer but it's $100 for the can. The numbers I'm seeing for my usage lead me to believe I'd benefit from it. Maybe I'll pick one up next season.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Heist30 said:


> Installed the King McLeod today, did two quick .7mi runs up and down a Triple R (rocky,rooty,rutty) old cart path and cannot find the words to describe the experience! Sooo much difference over the DPS. I'm 150lb, set the pressure at 150 and rebound where it felt good in the lot. The bike felt so much more stable floating through the ruts and over raised roots/rocks. Felt like I was taking it easy for the first runs but did 1s under my PR and it could be pushed harder. Used 2/3 travel, about the same as the fork, so will incrementally drop pressure and adjust rebound after a couple drops to see where it lands.


4 or so years ago when I got my first McLeod, I described it as "taut, like a sports car suspension".
Always damping, never uncontrolled.

Made my previous favourite shock feel like a boat in a storm.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Anyone using on the new Ripley?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

does any mcleods have yellow piston mounted in factory? How to check it?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

bogeydog said:


> Anyone using on the new Ripley?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Have one on the V3 and works great! Got mine from Dirtmerchant with the reducer on one end installed. Great price and great service. If you are closer to the 200 lb range as opposed to the 150 lb range, it is a no brainer. The Fox unit required 260 psi to get close to the right amount of sag and felt harsh in the repeated hits and still blew threw its travel on really big stuff. The Mcleod lets me use 190 psi for my 205 lbs and feels fantastic everywhere. Running the normal can at the moment and honestly, I don't think I need the king can on the V3. The standard can matches the linear nature of the V3 very well. The one thing I would recommend before installing it on any bike is to take the can off and lube the seals. My shock was pretty dry when I got it. Really is a set it and forget it type of addition. I used a 190 X 45 metric size.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Heist30 said:


> Installed the King McLeod today, did two quick .7mi runs up and down a Triple R (rocky,rooty,rutty) old cart path and cannot find the words to describe the experience! Sooo much difference over the DPS. I'm 150lb, set the pressure at 150 and rebound where it felt good in the lot. The bike felt so much more stable floating through the ruts and over raised roots/rocks. Felt like I was taking it easy for the first runs but did 1s under my PR and it could be pushed harder. Used 2/3 travel, about the same as the fork, so will incrementally drop pressure and adjust rebound after a couple drops to see where it lands.
> 
> Update: 120psi with rebound at 50% seems about right to start with...


Dang. I'm on a v1 Bronson, weigh around 135 out of the shower. On my gauge it's 85 psi. Any more and it's a bit too much. I know kinematics make a difference but that's a huge difference. When I hooked up a shockwiz to it I did read 91. I did Dougal's frequency test as well as checked sag. Bouncing around felt real good. Sag at 28-30%.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> Dang. I'm on a v1 Bronson, weigh around 135 out of the shower. On my gauge it's 85 psi. Any more and it's a bit too much. I know kinematics make a difference but that's a huge difference. When I hooked up a shockwiz to it I did read 91. I did Dougal's frequency test as well as checked sag. Bouncing around felt real good. Sag at 28-30%.


On king can? I believe king can will take more pressure. Im on a hightower OG, standard can and weigh 165, I run around 110-115 so your pressure sounds right to me.


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## ionivan (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi, guys.
Does anyone know copression ratios of the 190x50 mcleod with and without the king can?
Asked manitou tech support, but no answer still.

Looking for a shock with a very low CR (sub 2.4) for my extremely progressive rocky mountain thunderbolt.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

ionivan said:


> Hi, guys.
> Does anyone know copression ratios of the 190x50 mcleod with and without the king can?
> Asked manitou tech support, but no answer still.
> 
> Looking for a shock with a very low CR (sub 2.4) for my extremely progressive rocky mountain thunderbolt.


Not sure what you are looking for but I assume it is the spring curve?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

ionivan said:


> Hi, guys.
> Does anyone know copression ratios of the 190x50 mcleod with and without the king can?
> Asked manitou tech support, but no answer still.
> 
> Looking for a shock with a very low CR (sub 2.4) for my extremely progressive rocky mountain thunderbolt.


it's probably easy enough to measure. i have a 200x51 regular can laying around if you want the ID.

i'll say that the 190/200x57 king can worked pretty well on a 140mm Intense Primer with a 2.4-2.05 leverage curve. this is helped by the tiny, very weak negative spring the mcleod features.


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

bogeydog said:


> Anyone using on the new Ripley?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Yes. It needs air volume reduction to up the compression ratio but once tweaked it feels great on the new Ripley. The one I got came with the yellow piston and updated shim stacks from the factory. Manufacturing date was 10/2018.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## matteof93 (Jan 3, 2017)

I never considered the possibility of installing the King Can on my Mcleod, my bike is a Cube AMS 120 29" and the leverage ratio is linear (top picture, blue curve).
By the way the Newton / wheel travel ratio is not linear at all (bottom picture, blue curve).

Should I consider the installation of the King Can?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

yes


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

matteof93 said:


> I never considered the possibility of installing the King Can on my Mcleod, my bike is a Cube AMS 120 29" and the leverage ratio is linear (top picture, blue curve).
> By the way the Newton / wheel travel ratio is not linear at all (bottom picture, blue curve).
> 
> Should I consider the installation of the King Can?
> ...


Are you having trouble using full travel with a standard can?

My initial thought is no, leverage rate at the shock trumps movement at the wheel, mainly because the leverage rate at the shock is the only thing the shock will care about. That said, this is not something but have spent time looking into in the past. Maybe Dougal will be able to chime in with info I'm not thinking about.

Your leverage rate is actually slightly regressive, though the change is small enough to be considered linear for all intents and purposes. This should mate well with the standard can


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Are you having trouble using full travel with a standard can?
> 
> My initial thought is no, leverage rate at the shock trumps movement at the wheel, mainly because the leverage rate at the shock is the only thing the shock will care about. That said, this is not something but have spent time looking into in the past. Maybe Dougal will be able to chime in with info I'm not thinking about.
> 
> Your leverage rate is actually slightly regressive, though the change is small enough to be considered linear for all intents and purposes. This should mate well with the standard can


Every bike that I've had the McLeod on worked better with a King-Can at mid-volume. Except an old school FSR with the 165x38 that has no king-can option.

But that's possibly just luck of the draw. I haven't mapped out any of my bikes to see how progressive they actually are.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Every bike that I've had the McLeod on worked better with a King-Can at mid-volume. Except an old school FSR with the 165x38 that has no king-can option.
> 
> But that's possibly just luck of the draw. I haven't mapped out any of my bikes to see how progressive they actually are.


I'm a rarity, I run 5cc reduction in a standard air can on both of the frames I have spent meaningful time on. Mrs. Mullen runs a standard can as well.

All the Info I have leans towards king can for most frames and most riders. Linear or slightly regressive frames and/or aggressive riders do better with the standard can. I tend to tell people to try the standard can first and only tell people to try the king can only if they use 2/3 or less of travel on a normal ride.

For reference, I'm 160lbs in gear on a pivot mach 6. 111psi with 5cc reduction in a standard can. I bottom out more than I probably should, even with all that progression

I also ride like an idiot.


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## bwana (Oct 8, 2012)

Wow. The knowledge in this thread is bottomless. I just ride bikes, change tires and occasionally use a chain tool. Anyway, I am old and have joined the 'adaptive' bike crowd having recently purchased a turbo levo. I am 210 lbs fully geared up and the stock shock on this bike is the RockShox Deluxe RT w/ custom air valve, 150mm of travel. I find that it lacks the smoothness of a fox dpx2. Reading this thread makes me think the MacLeod is yet another quantum jump beyond the dpx2. Anyway, Given that the bike is 48lbs , that's about 260lbs the shock has to handle. Is the MacLeod appropriate or would the Mara be a safer choice?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

not that you won't love the mcleod/mara. but a megneg on the deluxe or super deluxe might give you some of that smoothness back. 

are the Maras out yet?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FactoryMatt said:


> are the Maras out yet?


Not out yet. They're flat out poking Mezzers out the door right now.


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## matteof93 (Jan 3, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> Are you having trouble using full travel with a standard can?
> 
> My initial thought is no, leverage rate at the shock trumps movement at the wheel, mainly because the leverage rate at the shock is the only thing the shock will care about. That said, this is not something but have spent time looking into in the past. Maybe Dougal will be able to chime in with info I'm not thinking about.
> 
> Your leverage rate is actually slightly regressive, though the change is small enough to be considered linear for all intents and purposes. This should mate well with the standard can


First of all I have to say that I don't have a lot of experience with full suspension bikes, this is my first full suspension mtb and before the Mcleod I only used a Fox Float CTD Performance.

The Mcleod is better, anyway I usually use about 2/3 of the travel because I keep both the shock and the fork with a pressure which is enough for a quite difficult trail near by my house....other trails around my town are easier so you don't get the chance to use all the travel simply because there are not obstables which are big enough, unless you are able to go down extremely fast.

By the way if I remember correctly my sag is in the 20-25% range, maybe I should try to set it in the 25-30% range.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I finally have a usable shock, so I'm trying to go through the process of tuning it. Used it in a 72 mile race last weekend, but it really pounded my but and was missing about 1/3rd of travel at 125psi. I've now lowered it down to about 90psi and it's getting closer, although riding it real aggressive and still missing out on a bit of travel. 1.75" stroke and 4" of travel. Sag appears to be normal so far.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Jayem said:


> I finally have a usable shock, so I'm trying to go through the process of tuning it. Used it in a 72 mile race last weekend, but it really pounded my but and was missing about 1/3rd of travel at 125psi. I've now lowered it down to about 90psi and it's getting closer, although riding it real aggressive and still missing out on a bit of travel. 1.75" stroke and 4" of travel. Sag appears to be normal so far.


What size shock? My first thought is that you need a king can in the middle volume setting. The standard air can is fairly progressive, so if your frame has progression it may be an issue.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mullen119 said:


> What size shock? My first thought is that you need a king can in the middle volume setting. The standard air can is fairly progressive, so if your frame has progression it may be an issue.


7.25 I believe, but this is somewhat troubling, this bike is supposed to play well with smaller cans, not the fox evol(and I have verified this) but both you and Dougal are saying the standard can doesn't work with most frames. It begs the question, why does it come this way and not with the can that works for "most" frames in both of your guy's words? The lockout worked great in the race, but I got into the same situation I did a few years ago on a 100-miler, getting beat to hell by the suspension over a long distance. Shame on me for not being able to get it set up due to limited time before the race and wanting to take advantage of the lockout, but if it's not going to work well in its current state, again, a bit troubling. Still pretty harsh at 90psi, but I have to loosen the rebound set screw and take "some" rebound off, something that can't be done trailside. .


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> 7.25 I believe, but this is somewhat troubling, this bike is supposed to play well with smaller cans, not the fox evol(and I have verified this) but both you and Dougal are saying the standard can doesn't work with most frames. It begs the question, why does it come this way and not with the can that works for "most" frames in both of your guy's words? The lockout worked great in the race, but I got into the same situation I did a few years ago on a 100-miler, getting beat to hell by the suspension over a long distance. Shame on me for not being able to get it set up due to limited time before the race and wanting to take advantage of the lockout, but if it's not going to work well in its current state, again, a bit troubling. Still pretty harsh at 90psi, but I have to loosen the rebound set screw and take "some" rebound off, something that can't be done trailside. .


I set air pressures based on frequency bounce tests: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide
The resulting air pressure on all my bigger travel bikes wit a single can has been too much sag. Going to a higher volume King-Can puts the ride height correct with the spring rate that I want.

Volume for me is for tuning ride height once you're done setting frequency. I don't base volume off full travel acheived or not.

Sounds like you need a rebound revalve too. I've done that to all mine with great results.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

I ran a standard can on my 5-Spot and also used the king can on the bike. Both worked well but the king can did work better. On my Ripley (V3) I find the normal size can works great and I have no desire to move to the king can. 

What kind of bike is it on?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Jayem said:


> 7.25 I believe, but this is somewhat troubling, this bike is supposed to play well with smaller cans, not the fox evol(and I have verified this) but both you and Dougal are saying the standard can doesn't work with most frames. It begs the question, why does it come this way and not with the can that works for "most" frames in both of your guy's words? The lockout worked great in the race, but I got into the same situation I did a few years ago on a 100-miler, getting beat to hell by the suspension over a long distance. Shame on me for not being able to get it set up due to limited time before the race and wanting to take advantage of the lockout, but if it's not going to work well in its current state, again, a bit troubling. Still pretty harsh at 90psi, but I have to loosen the rebound set screw and take "some" rebound off, something that can't be done trailside. .


I would say its around 50/50 at this point on king can vs regular can. I actually run reduction in my standard can. I don't think any air can system fits all bikes, but I agree with you that king can should just come standard. You can run it in mid volume setting and stuff the outer sleeve with bands to come close to the standard can volume I'd needed. It would cover the most bases.

For what its worth, I believe the Mara pro will ship stock with a king can for aftermarket shocks. This will likely be the case for trunnion McLeods as well as they share the same eyelet and air can design. It wouldn't surprise me if it does trickle over to the imperial and standard eyelet metric McLeods as well in the future, though that's just speculation on my part.

As for the harshness, I think trails feel harsher as rides progress because of rider fatigue. I know that when I ride long distances, ever price of suspension I have ever owned starts to feel harsh, but I'm also tired when I start to notice it.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Vespasianus said:


> I ran a standard can on my 5-Spot and also used the king can on the bike. Both worked well but the king can did work better. On my Ripley (V3) I find the normal size can works great and I have no desire to move to the king can.
> 
> What kind of bike is it on?


Pivot 429SL.

I learned long ago in the endurance races to not set the shock too firm, it works against you at mile 80 when you are getting beat to hell. That said, I still want a stable chassis, but upping the pressure to make it pedal better is a big no-no IME, it doesn't help you out on an endurance XC race.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Jayem said:


> 7.25 I believe


McLeod does not come in a 7.25 (184mm). Did you reduce a 190x50 down to 184? If so you can try a King Can.

I have a reduced 190x50 on my Niner Jet that has a some what progressive leverage rate. I had to go with a King Can set at 1/3rd volume (King Can set half volume and added some thick rubber bands for spacers). This allows me to run about 25 to 30 percent sag, has good mid support and uses about 90% travel on most normal rides.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Pivot 429SL.
> 
> I learned long ago in the endurance races to not set the shock too firm, it works against you at mile 80 when you are getting beat to hell. That said, I still want a stable chassis, but upping the pressure to make it pedal better is a big no-no IME, it doesn't help you out on an endurance XC race.





In2falling said:


> McLeod does not come in a 7.25 (184mm). Did you reduce a 190x50 down to 184? If so you can try a King Can.
> 
> I have a reduced 190x50 on my Niner Jet that has a some what progressive leverage rate. I had to go with a King Can set at 1/3rd volume (King Can set half volume and added some thick rubber bands for spacers). This allows me to run about 25 to 30 percent sag, has good mid support and uses about 90% travel on most normal rides.


Yeah, I hear you. The dw link should pedal well so you might be able to drop the air pressure to get the last bit of travel. Also, In2falling might be on to something. Are we making a normal can even more progressive by shortening it? I just got a metric 190 x 45 shock but assume if that is longer shock and just shortened down.

And since we are on the subject, would you still use a 50mm king can for a shortened shock?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> Yeah, I hear you. The dw link should pedal well so you might be able to drop the air pressure to get the last bit of travel. Also, In2falling might be on to something. Are we making a normal can even more progressive by shortening it? I just got a metric 190 x 45 shock but assume if that is longer shock and just shortened down.
> 
> And since we are on the subject, would you still use a 50mm king can for a shortened shock?


I just looked it up,all the 190mm shocks and the 184mm all have the same air can part number, the difference is just spacers, either in the negative chamber or a thicker bottom out bumper.

There shouldn't be any added ramp up from shortening a shock


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Pivot 429SL.
> 
> I learned long ago in the endurance races to not set the shock too firm, it works against you at mile 80 when you are getting beat to hell. That said, I still want a stable chassis, but upping the pressure to make it pedal better is a big no-no IME, it doesn't help you out on an endurance XC race.


That bike looks to have a pretty flat leverage curve (~2.5). I would drop pressure and see how that feels. I personally care less about quantity of travel and more about quality of travel and you are saying the bike is beating you up, which is not good.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Yes 184mm etc McLeods are 190x50's that are spaced down. They use the same King-Cans etc.

Getting a King-Can will give you lower spring rate for the same ride height. You can always go back if you don't like it.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> You can run it in mid volume setting and stuff the outer sleeve with bands to come close to the standard can volume I'd needed.


Does the King Can come with the bands you mentioned? Is there a part number for them in case they don't come with the can or if I would want more to play with the volume?

Thanks


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You can just use pieces of inner tube.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Anyone knows if late production (i am assuming 2019 and on) mcleods ship with the new gold/yellow piston?

thx
Oren


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

Anyone have experience with a Mcleod on a 2018-2019 Transition Smuggler? I was set on getting a DPX2 but tough to find it in the 210x50 Performance elite model..


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Just a small update for the people that are interested in bike park use.

I just returned from a week long vacation in Saalbach Hinterglemm and Leogang with some friends. I'm relatively inexperienced regarding bike parks, so stayed with the blue and red lines. We also did a cross country tour with 1100 vertical meters of climbing. 
The McLeod performed great. I was a bit worried because of the lack of a piggyback on long sustained descents, but the shock felt the same at the start and end of the longer runs. Halfway through the week I only had to add some air and dial back the rebound damping because of getting faster and hitting harder lines. 

While I did steeper and more technical stuff than on my previous bike (Ghost AMR Plus with X-Fusion O2 PVA) when I went to Alpe d'Huez and Winterberg, the shock was far more consistent and dealt with both hard hits, jumps and roots perfectly. The Mattoc in the front also performed admirably.
Somehow I don't have the feeling the original Fox DPS would have performed the same, considering the fact I had to choose between small bump compliance or big hit capability in the very flat Netherlands...


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

OrenPerets said:


> Anyone knows if late production (i am assuming 2019 and on) mcleods ship with the new gold/yellow piston?
> 
> thx
> Oren


Mine has a Oct 2018 manufacturing date and came with the yellow piston and updated stacks

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

OrenPerets said:


> Anyone knows if late production (i am assuming 2019 and on) mcleods ship with the new gold/yellow piston?
> 
> thx
> Oren


My shock's production date was 12/28/19 and it has the yellow piston and updated shim stacks.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

410sprint said:


> My shock's production date was 12/28/19 and it has the yellow piston and updated shim stacks.


You must have a time machine.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Zerort said:


> You must have a time machine.


Don't you know the only thing that can go back in time is gravity!


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Vespasianus said:


> Don't you know the only thing that can go back in time is gravity!


Dude, that's way to deep for me. Unsubscribed!


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

410sprint said:


> My shock's production date was 12/28/19 and it has the yellow piston and updated shim stacks.


Thanks.

I'll take that as a 19' model year.
I saw you have it installed on a TB3... did you add the king can (if yes, how much do you weigh if it's ok asking?)

Oren

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nic90 (May 14, 2017)

Hello everyone! I'm going to throw an old – and pretty mediocre – Fox Float CTD in the incinerator in order to mount a Manitou McLeod on a 2013 Giant Reign 1. But I've got some questions:

1) I've read comments about the progressive compression behaviour of the shock: will it be fine on my bike without buying a King Can? My weight is 60kg.

2) My Giant Reign seems to have an integrated hardware for the lower pivot – Giant calls it 'Co-pivot' – so it seems I need no external hardware for that: any Giant Reign user can confirm it?

3) Upper hardware measurements are 22.2x6mm, according to Giant. Will standard Manitou bushing set be fine? Are there any significant performance differences vs other brands and heavy duty mount kits – Racing Bros 5-pieces mounting hardware, for example?

4) What tool do I need to mount standard bushings on my own?


Thanks everyone in advance!


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

nic90 said:


> Hello everyone! I'm going to throw an old - and pretty mediocre - Fox Float CTD in the incinerator in order to mount a Manitou McLeod on a 2013 Giant Reign 1. But I've got some questions:
> 
> 1) I've read comments about the progressive compression behaviour of the shock: will it be fine on my bike without buying a King Can? My weight is 60kg.
> 
> ...


130 lbs with a ~20% change in leverage ratio would suggest the use of a king can.

Can't comment on point 2 but my Ripley only uses a hardware on one side, which is great and makes getting the can on and off very easy.

3. Honestly, the standard manitou stuff works perfectly fine. Just order the shock from a good dealer and have them install the hardware for you. If you don't, you can get a DU removal tool from a couple of places. I used the Rock Shox one that I purchased on Amazon and it works well. The tool itself is cheap and feels cheap but does the job. In some shocks, the fox stuff slides in nicely. In others, you have to use the Manitou stuff.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Try it with standard can first and see how you like it.

Just reuse the hardware from Fox and keep the standard bushing that comes with Mcleod on bottom.

For top I would go with a Enduro needle bearing which would work/be great on Reign for it has a lot of movement. Take shock and needle bearing to local bike shop and have them pop it in for you.

https://www.enduroforkseals.com/pro...shock-eyelet-bearing-kits/6mm-8mm-thru-bolts/


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Ok with all the talk about how people like king can I decided to get one to try on sc Hightower. 

Just got it... how much force should I need to get king can off body?? Got it half way with a lot of force.. don’t want to force all the way off. Is there a trick to this?


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

seamarsh said:


> Ok with all the talk about how people like king can I decided to get one to try on sc Hightower.
> 
> Just got it... how much force should I need to get king can off body?? Got it half way with a lot of force.. don't want to force all the way off. Is there a trick to this?


Never mind.. I used a socket to support and pushed down.. its on there tight!!! FYI


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

So guessing king can set at intermediate should take about 15lbs more pressure than standard to get sag?

Going to start with no volume spacers and maybe add if I need. 

Any other set up tips for king can?


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## nic90 (May 14, 2017)

Vespasianus said:


> 130 lbs with a ~20% change in leverage ratio would suggest the use of a king can.
> 
> Can't comment on point 2 but my Ripley only uses a hardware on one side, which is great and makes getting the can on and off very easy.
> 
> 3. Honestly, the standard manitou stuff works perfectly fine. Just order the shock from a good dealer and have them install the hardware for you. If you don't, you can get a DU removal tool from a couple of places. I used the Rock Shox one that I purchased on Amazon and it works well. The tool itself is cheap and feels cheap but does the job. In some shocks, the fox stuff slides in nicely. In others, you have to use the Manitou stuff.


So, even with a linear compression curve like Giant Reign's one - that's what I read here and on other threads - I would probably need a King Can?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> So guessing king can set at intermediate should take about 15lbs more pressure than standard to get sag?
> 
> Going to start with no volume spacers and maybe add if I need.
> 
> Any other set up tips for king can?


Set air pressure by frequency, set volume to correct ride height (if the sag is too big or too small): https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

nic90 said:


> So, even with a linear compression curve like Giant Reign's one - that's what I read here and on other threads - I would probably need a King Can?


Well, a 20% increase is pretty good in my book, especially with your weight. But I do agree with In2falling, you can always try it as is and get the king can if you need it.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> Well, a 20% increase is pretty good in my book, especially with your weight. But I do agree with In2falling, you can always try it as is and get the king can if you need it.


Agreed that 20% increase is not linear.

Looking at the linkage info for a 2013 reign, its pretty progressive. I think a king can will be needed.








One thing that's worth pointing out to everyone. Linear means different things when looking at linkage then it does looking at springs on graphs. Linear on linkage means the line on a graph is straight with very little or no curve. You can have a linear progressive linkage rate , which would mean the linkage is progressive(large change in leverage ratio)with a consistent change (straight line) over the stroke.

Linkage that works well with the regular air can would be called "flat" , meaning there is very little change in leverage ratio (usually 10% or less) over the shock stroke. Obviously regressive would pair well as well.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

I put the McLeod on my bike about two years ago. Before I did I consulted this forum and people told me that because I was riding a Santa Cruz hightower I should definitely use the standard can.

Well I just installed the king can and I can say without hesitation that it’s significantly better on the hightower. 

Better support, it’s not blowing through the first part to the mid stroke of travel, and it even seems like the valving on rebound and compression works better with the King can. 

Only thing I might do is add one volume spacer band(RockShox) other than that it’s a huge improvement over the standard can.

So it just goes to show that you really have to try everything for yourself. 

It was only recently that I read in this thread that a few people said that King can seems to work better for most setups, not sure if that is something that has changed over the years or what but all I can say is definitely try it.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

seamarsh said:


> I put the McLeod on my bike about two years ago. Before I did I consulted this forum and people told me that because I was riding a Santa Cruz hightower I should definitely use the standard can.
> 
> Well I just installed the king can and I can say without hesitation that it's significantly better on the hightower.
> 
> ...


I also believe that different riding styles respond better to King-Can vs Std-Can.

If you want/need a more progressive spring curve for more forceful riding then the Std Can seems to suit those riders. If you want to cover rough ground at speed then the King-Can seems to suit those riders.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Redacted


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## nic90 (May 14, 2017)

Thanks everyone for the info! I was pretty sure that buying the McLeod without the King Can was the best choice for my Reign. It's a pity because at 260€ price range (McLeod+King Can) there might be best options on the market. Isn't it?


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

nic90 said:


> Thanks everyone for the info! I was pretty sure that buying the McLeod without the King Can was the best choice for my Reign. It's a pity because at 260€ price range (McLeod+King Can) there might be best options on the market. Isn't it?


No.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

nic90 said:


> Thanks everyone for the info! I was pretty sure that buying the McLeod without the King Can was the best choice for my Reign. It's a pity because at 260€ price range (McLeod+King Can) there might be best options on the market. Isn't it?


Honestly, it is still worth it.


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## nic90 (May 14, 2017)

Anyone coming from a €300+ shock that would confirm the clear superiority of this one?


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

nic90 said:


> Anyone coming from a €300+ shock that would confirm the clear superiority of this one?


Clear superiority? This isn't a race, every shock has its characteristics and everyone has different needs.
The McLeod is clearly superior only to the fox dps which is garbage.
There are good competitors, for example cane creek db air il which is also good but has a different feel and is not user serviceable.
I sold the IL and bought the mcleod, i'm happy with it


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## nic90 (May 14, 2017)

Sorry for my last post, no intention to rise flames or whatever. I am concerned if the shock, even at the 260€ price range (with the King Can) would still be a big bang for the buck and a clear improvement over my crappy default Fox Float CTD. Reading some of the experiences in this thread I would bet so, but obviously I cannot read all the opinions cause this thread is pretty immense. By the way, I would probably buy it.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

nic90 said:


> Anyone coming from a €300+ shock that would confirm the clear superiority of this one?


Well, a Fox DPS Factory (which I replaced with the Mcleod) goes for over 500 euro's new and the McLeod is much better. But that shock is hot poop.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

davideb87 said:


> Clear superiority? This isn't a race, every shock has its characteristics and everyone has different needs.
> The McLeod is clearly superior only to the fox dps which is garbage.
> There are good competitors, for example cane creek db air il which is also good but has a different feel and is not user serviceable.
> I sold the IL and bought the mcleod, i'm happy with it


I'm can't confirm that, I haven't tried it with the king can, but it's way too harsh without and I have to run around 85 psi, for comparison the DPS (I have two of them) run around 125-130 or so. I got a new DPS with lockout and while it's not a perfect match damping wise to my bike (unlike my tuned DPD), it's light years ahead of the McLeod and fun to ride again, I rode the McLeod in a 72 mile race a month back and it pounded me to death, painful.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Jayem said:


> I'm can't confirm that, I haven't tried it with the king can, but it's way too harsh without and I have to run around 85 psi, for comparison the DPS (I have two of them) run around 125-130 or so. I got a new DPS with lockout and while it's not a perfect match damping wise to my bike (unlike my tuned DPD), it's light years ahead of the McLeod and fun to ride again, I rode the McLeod in a 72 mile race a month back and it pounded me to death, painful.


I probably had 2 faulty dps and 2 weirdly awesome mcleod then


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Jayem said:


> I'm can't confirm that, I haven't tried it with the king can, but it's way too harsh without and I have to run around 85 psi, for comparison the DPS (I have two of them) run around 125-130 or so. I got a new DPS with lockout and while it's not a perfect match damping wise to my bike (unlike my tuned DPD), it's light years ahead of the McLeod and fun to ride again, I rode the McLeod in a 72 mile race a month back and it pounded me to death, painful.


85psi is very low. I haven't had time to keep up with most of the posts, but it sounds like a bad set up with too much progression and not enough mid stroke support.

Glad you found something to work for you.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nic90 said:


> Sorry for my last post, no intention to rise flames or whatever. I am concerned if the shock, even at the 260€ price range (with the King Can) would still be a big bang for the buck and a clear improvement over my crappy default Fox Float CTD. Reading some of the experiences in this thread I would bet so, but obviously I cannot read all the opinions cause this thread is pretty immense. By the way, I would probably buy it.


There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to suspension. Trail type, bike leverage rates and and curves, and personal preference all play factors in what suspension product works best. Most people seem to really like the McLeod because it adapts well to most riders and bikes. I consider it the best light weight, inline shock on the market. I'm also incredibly biased. I think the thread shows that most people find it to be a very good shock for a very reasonable price.

Fwiw, the fox CTD shocks are the worst I have ever ridden, especially the evolution series. Anything would be an upgrade in my opinion.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

davideb87 said:


> I probably had 2 faulty dps and 2 weirdly awesome mcleod then


Make that 3 faulty DPS, 1 faulty RP23 and 4 weirdly awesome Mcleods...

But seriously, I don't know if anyone participating in this conversation is familiar with Mohican State Park in OH but it is roots, roots and more roots. I'm not talking about just on downhills where you are coasting over them, I'm talking about on the uphills and flat pedally sections too. Yesterday was the first time taking my Pivot Mach 429 Trail there since replacing the Fox DPS with a Mcleod and I was absolutely blown away by how much better it was.


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## nic90 (May 14, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> [...] Fwiw, the fox CTD shocks are the worst I have ever ridden, especially the evolution series. Anything would be an upgrade in my opinion.


Ahahaha! I've actually got a Fox Float CTD Evo Series and it's insanely stiff, although I ride with 30% SAG.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nic90 said:


> Ahahaha! I've actually got a Fox Float CTD Evo Series and it's insanely stiff, although I ride with 30% SAG.


The Evo shocks have a poorly designed compression circuit and no high speed rebound circuit. All around just terrible. You will be highly impressed with most upgrades.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Dougal said:


> I also believe that different riding styles respond better to King-Can vs Std-Can.
> 
> If you want/need a more progressive spring curve for more forceful riding then the Std Can seems to suit those riders. If you want to cover rough ground at speed then the King-Can seems to suit those riders.


Makes sense, I'd place myself in the aggressive trail category, not much big air but lots of high speed stuff and natural rough single track.

I just wish I had tried sooner. I was in the belief that a king can would just flat out not work for Santa Cruz Hightower leverage curves.

Really felt worlds better over chatter, much more controlled.

Only first ride so need to tune a little more but over all very worthy upgrade.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mullen119 said:


> The Evo shocks have a poorly designed compression circuit and no high speed rebound circuit. All around just terrible. You will be highly impressed with most upgrades.


Important to note, Evo are terrible shocks/forks. Are they even still making them under that name? Evol are large air cans that come on many/most current DPS shocks, has nothing to do with the damping. Similar names and the evol is in big words on the larger cans. I "resized" my Evol air chamber down a bit for my 429SL and it works pretty well. DPS isn't terrible at shorter travels assuming the tune is close.

I may get a king can later to play around with, I'm not in such a dire situation now where I need a backup shock anymore. It doesn't seem there are many reports of non-King can shocks working well. I'm sure there are a few, but the price doesn't make as much sense when you have to figure in extra parts.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Replaced the DPS on my Ripley with a standard can Mcleod. At 200 lbs, the DPS was terrible. ~250 lbs to get any sag an harsh on anything bigger than a twig and blew threw travel. Although the king can is better in some ways, the standard can is perfectly fine.

85 psi seems really low for a 429. Does that bike have a really low leverage ratio (2:1?).


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Important to note, Evo are terrible shocks/forks. Are they even still making them under that name? Evol are large air cans that come on many/most current DPS shocks, has nothing to do with the damping. Similar names and the evol is in big words on the larger cans. I "resized" my Evol air chamber down a bit for my 429SL and it works pretty well. DPS isn't terrible at shorter travels assuming the tune is close.
> 
> I may get a king can later to play around with, I'm not in such a dire situation now where I need a backup shock anymore. It doesn't seem there are many reports of non-King can shocks working well. I'm sure there are a few, but the price doesn't make as much sense when you have to figure in extra parts.


The evolution series was discontinued after just a few years. Maybe 2013-15ish from memory. Hard to believe it even lasted that long.

DPS is better, but still lacks compared to its competitors in my opinion. I'd take a RS monarch/deluxe over a DPS.

Speaking of which, can sram get some better names going? They just name things after superlatives.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

I came from a DPS Evol with the 0.8 spacer installed and now have a McLeod with standard can. The bike has a nearly linear linkage and the McLeod is better with drops, roots, rocks, technical climbing and just as good on a flat trail. 
When you say it doesn't make sense when factoring in the cost of upgrades, which alternatives did you have in mind for < $300?
X-Fusion make pretty good affordable shocks, but even their shocks start around that price and my McLeod beats my O2 PVA, especially on long descents.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Vespasianus said:


> ...~250 lbs to get any sag an harsh on anything bigger than a twig and blew threw travel....


I run about 185lbs kitted up ready to ride with a full Camelbak and that is the exact problem I had with the stock Fox DPS Evol (@235 psi) that came on my Mach 429 Trail. That's even after having it worked on by one of the most well respected suspension guys in the business.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Stahr_Nut said:


> I run about 185lbs kitted up ready to ride with a full Camelbak and that is the exact problem I had with the stock Fox DPS Evol (@235 psi) that came on my Mach 429 Trail. That's even after having it worked on by one of the most well respected suspension guys in the business.


So you have a 429 Trail with a Mcleod? What kind of pressures are you running?


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Vespasianus said:


> So you have a 429 Trail with a Mcleod? What kind of pressures are you running?


135 psi in IPA position 2 90+% of the time unless I'm riding to and from a trail from home then I flip it to position 4. Rebound at 5/8 of a turn from full open. Standard air can. I ride traditional XC style trails in SE and northern Michigan.


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## detsortehul (Jun 25, 2007)

seamarsh said:


> Well I just installed the king can and I can say without hesitation that it's significantly better on the hightower.


Have you configured King Can as medium or full volume?


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

what does everyone use as volume reducers in positive chamber?


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> Agreed that 20% increase is not linear.
> 
> Looking at the linkage info for a 2013 reign, its pretty progressive. I think a king can will be needed.
> View attachment 1276025
> ...


What about the old VPP with a regressive then progressive (and then a tiny regressive again like the 2013 bronson LOL)


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

detsortehul said:


> Have you configured King Can as medium or full volume?


Yes, they call it intermediate on instructions.

Also added one volume reducing band, used a RockShox one it works perfectly.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

seamarsh said:


> Yes, they call it intermediate on instructions.
> 
> Also added one volume reducing band, used a RockShox one it works perfectly.


great, good to know on the spacer bands. would they work with the standard cans though, can you tell?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Finally have had some time with a Mcleod on my Endorphin. Took forever to get it from my local distributor, but good things come to those who wait (and wait, and wait and wait....).

I am trying it with the regular can for now. 90PSI, using around 45mm of the 50mm available. 85psi is to low/ bike sags too much. 88 seems ok, still uses 45mm, so keeping it at 90 as it seems to be a great overall balance.

I can not believe how much smoother it feels when descending. with the fox dps sharp hits were all chatter, but the Mcleod it is smooth as butter. So far a really excellent upgrade.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

006_007 said:


> Finally have had some time with a Mcleod on my Endorphin. Took forever to get it from my local distributor, but good things come to those who wait (and wait, and wait and wait....).
> 
> I am trying it with the regular can for now. 90PSI, using around 45mm of the 50mm available. 85psi is to low/ bike sags too much. 88 seems ok, still uses 45mm, so keeping it at 90 as it seems to be a great overall balance.
> 
> I can not believe how much smoother it feels when descending. with the fox dps sharp hits were all chatter, but the Mcleod it is smooth as butter. So far a really excellent upgrade.


Why so low of PSI? The Knolly should have a pretty substantial leverage ratio to start and should be rather progressive. Can I ask what you weigh?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Vespasianus said:


> Why so low of PSI? The Knolly should have a pretty substantial leverage ratio to start and should be rather progressive. Can I ask what you weigh?


170lbs

I originally started at 150psi, but the spring curve felt way out of balance compared to the mattoc (back end was springing me forward using frequency method) and found it happiest down there. Have not measured sag - I tend to go with how bike feels.

Maybe tomorrow nights ride I will run the pressure at 150 of a bit just to see what it is like. Pretty sure I dont want to go in that direction though.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

006_007 said:


> 170lbs
> 
> I originally started at 150psi, but the spring curve felt way out of balance compared to the mattoc (back end was springing me forward using frequency method) and found it happiest down there. Have not measured sag - I tend to go with how bike feels.
> 
> Maybe tomorrow nights ride I will run the pressure at 150 of a bit just to see what it is like. Pretty sure I dont want to go in that direction though.


If you have to reduce pressure too much to get the right frequency, then going to a bigger can fixes that. You can run more pressure and less sag for the same spring-rate and frequency.

Second bike I had the McLeod on the handling turned to poo because it raked out too much. King-can fixed most of it, selling the bike for a better handling model fixed the rest.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Ok so my shock made it almost 20 hours before it started squeaking again. Maybe I can just coat the shaft every few hours so it slides into the seals and keeps them moist?


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## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Quick shock question...i have a 200x57 mcleod on a older process 153... The shock though only measures about 194 (i need to double check that). But it's still noticeably shorter.

I contacted Manitou and they said that's how it was cause of the negative air spring,. But i don't really like it, slackens the bike to much and to low of bb.

Any one else have this problem or know of a fix?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

006_007 said:


> 170lbs
> 
> I originally started at 150psi, but the spring curve felt way out of balance compared to the mattoc (back end was springing me forward using frequency method) and found it happiest down there. Have not measured sag - I tend to go with how bike feels.
> 
> Maybe tomorrow nights ride I will run the pressure at 150 of a bit just to see what it is like. Pretty sure I dont want to go in that direction though.


I tried 120-125 for my endurance race a month back, it "seemed" to be a conservative setting at about a quarter sag, but I didn't have a lot of time to test it out before. That resulted in only getting 2/3rds travel in the most extreme events, which is 2.something inches and just pounded the hell out of me. I have to run 85-90 to get anything resembling the right travel usage for the terrain and the damping/rate is pretty crazy at those pressures. Feels way overdamped and still pounding at that setting. I guess that means a king can is necessary, as it is for most riders on this.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

seamarsh said:


> Yes, they call it intermediate on instructions.
> 
> Also added one volume reducing band, used a RockShox one it works perfectly.


Where do you put the band? With the king can there is the outer shell and an inner shell. So between the two shells? Above or below the notch (if that even matters). I found I blew through the king can on full volume. Things seem okay on intermediate but now I want to play around.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

boostinmini said:


> Quick shock question...i have a 200x57 mcleod on a older process 153... The shock though only measures about 194 (i need to double check that). But it's still noticeably shorter.
> 
> I contacted Manitou and they said that's how it was cause of the negative air spring,. But i don't really like it, slackens the bike to much and to low of bb.
> 
> Any one else have this problem or know of a fix?


Take the air-can off and reinstall to reset the negative air. If it sucks down again then change the main air seal quad-ring.


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## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Dougal said:


> Take the air-can off and reinstall to reset the negative air. If it sucks down again then change the main air seal quad-ring.


Ive done that about 4 times and also a new air sleeve kit cause i loose about 20 to 30 psi a week

Still no change and still loose the psi..

I put the shock in a container and just Stare, i never see a air leak


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

boostinmini said:


> Ive done that about 4 times and also a new air sleeve kit cause i loose about 20 to 30 psi a week
> 
> Still no change and still loose the psi..
> 
> I put the shock in a container and just Stare, i never see a air leak


That's weird. It sounds like your leak is internal positive-negative rather than external. Check for scratches/damage in the seal groove and inside the can.


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## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Dougal said:


> That's weird. It sounds like your leak is internal positive-negative rather than external. Check for scratches/damage in the seal groove and inside the can.


Yeah makes sense...i never saw anything when i had it apart, shock is new this spring.. but not much help from Manitou yet, i have been thinking of getting a king can which might hello if the can is bad


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

wait - there are volume reducers for the mcleod cans? never seen or heard of them but I bottom out and should definitely try them



jdang307 said:


> Where do you put the band? With the king can there is the outer shell and an inner shell. So between the two shells? Above or below the notch (if that even matters). I found I blew through the king can on full volume. Things seem okay on intermediate but now I want to play around.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Jayem said:


> I tried 120-125 for my endurance race a month back, it "seemed" to be a conservative setting at about a quarter sag, but I didn't have a lot of time to test it out before. That resulted in only getting 2/3rds travel in the most extreme events, which is 2.something inches and just pounded the hell out of me. I have to run 85-90 to get anything resembling the right travel usage for the terrain and the damping/rate is pretty crazy at those pressures. Feels way overdamped and still pounding at that setting. I guess that means a king can is necessary, as it is for most riders on this.


Interesting - when I am running down at 90psi with the standard can it isnt feeling overdamped or like it is pounding away at all - I find it way more compliant then my fox setups ever were, and appreciate it more then the fox it replaced in every way.

Now if there is something I can do to make it even better, I would be curious to ask is it as better as the standard can is better then the fox, or is it just a bit better? If it is another step as big as I just experienced (or even a 1/2 step) then I am listening......


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Just got new mcleod for my ripley v4. While i am waiting for the bushings and mounying hardware, is there anything i can do with the shock to tune it to match this bike? I remember reading in this thread something about opening new mcleod and making sure it is lubed proberly or something like this?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

cavo said:


> Just got new mcleod for my ripley v4. While i am waiting for the bushings and mounying hardware, is there anything i can do with the shock to tune it to match this bike? I remember reading in this thread something about opening new mcleod and making sure it is lubed proberly or something like this?


Never hurts to pull the air can off and reinstall it to reset the negative spring. Other than that you should be good to go


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

cavo said:


> Just got new mcleod for my ripley v4. While i am waiting for the bushings and mounying hardware, is there anything i can do with the shock to tune it to match this bike? I remember reading in this thread something about opening new mcleod and making sure it is lubed proberly or something like this?


One of the other guys running a McLeod on a new Ripley put some grease in the positive chamber to increase the progressiveness, but I would just reset the negative spring as suggested and give it a try as-is. It's easy enough to change it after seeing how it works for your riding style. My Ripley is finally arriving soon and I've got a McLeod waiting for it, too.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Velodonata said:


> One of the other guys running a McLeod on a new Ripley put some grease in the positive chamber to increase the progressiveness, but I would just reset the negative spring as suggested and give it a try as-is. It's easy enough to change it after seeing how it works for your riding style. My Ripley is finally arriving soon and I've got a McLeod waiting for it, too.


Great thanks everyone. Just out of curiosity, why does neg spring needs reseting? Will i need to reset it every so often?


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

cavo said:


> Great thanks everyone. Just out of curiosity, why does neg spring needs reseting? Will i need to reset it every so often?


It probably doesn't need it, but it's easy to do so it is done just to make sure it is fully charged. Normally unless you notice a problem, it won't need it any more often than you should give the aircan a minor clean and lube service anyway, maybe 2 or 3 times a year. So it basically takes care of itself in normal use.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

cavo said:


> Great thanks everyone. Just out of curiosity, why does neg spring needs reseting? Will i need to reset it every so often?


every so often it leaks out if the seals get dry.

you might also take a 1.5mm allen and gently tighten up the grub screws that dictate lever play. there's two or three of them. also, make sure the rebound dial has some resistance so it doesn't spin unintentionally. if it doesn't, i've heard a small oring behind it helps.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

cavo said:


> Just got new mcleod for my ripley v4. While i am waiting for the bushings and mounying hardware, is there anything i can do with the shock to tune it to match this bike? I remember reading in this thread something about opening new mcleod and making sure it is lubed proberly or something like this?


I got a Mcleod for my V3 early this summer. The shock was pretty much bone dry and the can required a reset right out of the box. My feeling is that it is easy to do so you might as well lube and reset before putting it on - and it sure beats putting it on and finding out that it needs it!


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

so to reset neg spring, i just pull the can off and install back on and trap air in there?

on another note, i have designed volume spacers in sketchup and going to have them 3d printed somewhere to test them out. 0.2, 0.4 and 0.6 cubic inch volumes.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

correct. 

very cool. sounds like manitou should license these from you


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Data point for the ongoing McLeod hardware fit saga- swapped in a McLeod 190x45 for the stock Fox Float on my new Ripley last night, it was an excellent fit match. All the stock hardware transferred over, and the fit was maybe better on the McLeod, if anything just a wee hair less tight, what I consider an ideal snugness for shock pins. The older McLeod on my Smuggler was a perceptible bit looser than the Monarch it replaced, but not so that it caused any problems. And I run a RWC needle bearing kit in the upper eye on that bike due to the rocker design.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Velodonata said:


> Data point for the ongoing McLeod hardware fit saga- swapped in a McLeod 190x45 for the stock Fox Float on my new Ripley last night, it was an excellent fit match. All the stock hardware transferred over, and the fit was maybe better on the McLeod, if anything just a wee hair less tight, what I consider an ideal snugness for shock pins. The older McLeod on my Smuggler was a perceptible bit looser than the Monarch it replaced, but not so that it caused any problems. And I run a RWC needle bearing kit in the upper eye on that bike due to the rocker design.


please report your impressions when you get a chance. i received wrong upper hardware from ibis so might be few more days before i get the correct one and have a chance to test.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> Data point for the ongoing McLeod hardware fit saga- swapped in a McLeod 190x45 for the stock Fox Float on my new Ripley last night, it was an excellent fit match. All the stock hardware transferred over, and the fit was maybe better on the McLeod, if anything just a wee hair less tight, what I consider an ideal snugness for shock pins. The older McLeod on my Smuggler was a perceptible bit looser than the Monarch it replaced, but not so that it caused any problems. And I run a RWC needle bearing kit in the upper eye on that bike due to the rocker design.


Another complication.

Many IGUS compounds are sensitive to humidity. They swell in higher humidity and shrink in lower humidity. That may be influencing Fox IGUS hardware fit. I'm not sure exactly which compound they use but it's one of about 4 matching that appearance.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Many IGUS compounds are sensitive to humidity. They swell in higher humidity and shrink in lower humidity. That may be influencing Fox IGUS hardware fit. I'm not sure exactly which compound they use but it's one of about 4 matching that appearance.


Funny thing is Ibis doesn't use any of the newer style Fox hardware, it's all their own bits and standard old DU bushings. I expect because their design imparts very little rotation to the shock mounts, they are saving a few bucks where it doesn't really matter. So the McLeod comes out of the box setup exactly like the Fox Float it replaced, just push the pins out of the Fox and into the McLeod.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

cavo said:


> please report your impressions when you get a chance. i received wrong upper hardware from ibis so might be few more days before i get the correct one and have a chance to test.


You may still be on yours before I get mine built up, I'm glad I finally got the frame but due to work and other current obligations I'll be very lucky to have it together by next weekend. Probably the following weekend before I get to hit the dirt with it.

What was the problem with your hardware, did you not have the original hardware to swap over?


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

I did swap over today. It was so tight i could not get it off myself, i went ahead and ordered new, but had a friend do it for me today with a press of some sort. 
Now does it sound correct that my 45mm shaft mcleod 
has only 42mm actual shaft travel?
I deflate the shock and fully compress, then inflate and measure to o ring i get 42mm. Is extra 3mm bottom out bumper that gets squished on hard hits to get additional 3mm?


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

cavo said:


> I deflate the shock and fully compress, then inflate and measure to o ring i get 42mm. Is extra 3mm bottom out bumper that gets squished on hard hits to get additional 3mm?


Yes, that is fairly typical. And from a quick check about the same as the Fox sitting here on my desk that I took off of my Ripley.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

cavo said:


> great, good to know on the spacer bands. would they work with the standard cans though, can you tell?


there no where for them to go on standard can.. standard can you can use a dab of grease as mullen suggested in this thread somewhere.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

dtheo said:


> wait - there are volume reducers for the mcleod cans? never seen or heard of them but I bottom out and should definitely try them


You can use rockshox volume reducing bands..

as to this other question, yes between inner shell and outer shell on top half. I added 1 volume spacer, seems to be working well for me on santa cruz hightower.

this video is for monarch debonair but same idea..


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

seamarsh said:


> You can use rockshox volume reducing bands..
> 
> as to this other question, yes between inner shell and outer shell on top half. I added 1 volume spacer, seems to be working well for me on santa cruz hightower.
> 
> this video is for monarch debonair but same idea..


Reducing bands only work with King Can. For standard cans, fill the pos chamber with extra grease to reduce the volume. 0.5oz to 1oz at a time


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

ibis315 said:


> Reducing bands only work with King Can. For standard cans, fill the pos chamber with extra grease to reduce the volume. 0.5oz to 1oz at a time


look 2 above your post


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

seamarsh said:


> look 2 above your post


Which post? The time-line of the posts are not so linear


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

i used about 15mm wide strip cut from milk jug in standard can as a reducer. it runs on the inside perimeter of the can around about 4 times. if you need more volume just add another strip or 2


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Vespasianus said:


> I got a Mcleod for my V3 early this summer.


.

My bud has a Ripley V2 and says he runs 170 cranks due to pedal strikes here around Bwine, Harmony Hill, Wiss... might the McLeod ride stability help in this respect?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Heist30 said:


> .
> 
> My bud has a Ripley V2 and says he runs 170 cranks due to pedal strikes here around Bwine, Harmony Hill, Wiss... might the McLeod ride stability help in this respect?


Running a King-Can with higher volume and higher pressure will give him less sag but still a soft enough mid-stroke.

When I got my Bergamont I couldn't pedal up anything without smacking pedals. I flipped the shock mount chip and upped pressure a lot so simply be able to pedal it.


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## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

Looking for advice: I ride a Ibis Ripmo, weigh 190lbs~ and ride fairly aggressive but no real huge jumps/drops for the most part. I had proper sag at 130psi but the shock seemed to use most of the travel fairly easily just on average trails. If I do a smaller 1-2' drop it will bottom out, although not terrible. This is on the IPA setting of 1 but changing to 2-3 doesnt help much. Should I keep adding air and not worry about sag until Im not bottoming out easily or is there another way to increase bottom out resistance?


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

I think everyone will tell you, sag is a measurement, not a goal/end. Once air pressure is good, check sag and ride height, and adjust if necessary.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Looking to service my McLeod. Had it for more than a year now, 2000 miles or so. I see there are two kits. One is just the seals for the can, the other a complete rebuild.

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy...MIt-LFoLjY5AIVoh-tBh0lhAFREAQYAiABEgIK4_D_BwE

Should I go ahead with the entire rebuild and redo everything?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

evan9r said:


> Looking for advice: I ride a Ibis Ripmo, weigh 190lbs~ and ride fairly aggressive but no real huge jumps/drops for the most part. I had proper sag at 130psi but the shock seemed to use most of the travel fairly easily just on average trails. If I do a smaller 1-2' drop it will bottom out, although not terrible. This is on the IPA setting of 1 but changing to 2-3 doesnt help much. Should I keep adding air and not worry about sag until Im not bottoming out easily or is there another way to increase bottom out resistance?


Which air can?

130psi isn't much. I'd reset negative (can off and on again) and check positive pressure again. You will need more pressure when negative air is working properly.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

evan9r said:


> Looking for advice: I ride a Ibis Ripmo, weigh 190lbs~ and ride fairly aggressive but no real huge jumps/drops for the most part. I had proper sag at 130psi but the shock seemed to use most of the travel fairly easily just on average trails. If I do a smaller 1-2' drop it will bottom out, although not terrible. This is on the IPA setting of 1 but changing to 2-3 doesnt help much. Should I keep adding air and not worry about sag until Im not bottoming out easily or is there another way to increase bottom out resistance?


Can't say for sure that this will help you but was kind of having similar issues with standard can on my hightower. Bought a king can and it's hands down better all around. Plus it's more tunable because you can use volumes tokens.

Maybe worth a try?


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## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

Its the standard can. I have reset negative air once, only 2 rides ago. I will keep playing with air pressure. Next step will be a king can.


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

evan9r said:


> Its the standard can. I have reset negative air once, only 2 rides ago. I will keep playing with air pressure. Next step will be a king can.


If you are bottoming out too easily at your desired sag you need LESS air volume, not more. A king can will make your problem worse.

What you need is air volume reduction via volume spacers, grease, or whatever you prefer to use to take up space in the positive air chamber. This will make your curve more progressive and therefore increase bottom out resistance.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

mullen adds some grease to his standard air can for more progression.


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

evan9r said:


> Its the standard can. I have reset negative air once, only 2 rides ago. I will keep playing with air pressure. Next step will be a king can.


Since Mcleod doesn't have a OEM volume reducer, add grease to the air chamber. Start out with 0.5oz or so at a time to fine tune


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## ErnoNykanen (Sep 6, 2019)

ibis315 said:


> Since Mcleod doesn't have a OEM volume reducer, add grease to the air chamber. Start out with 0.5oz or so at a time to fine tune


Grease here means the same stuff as with what you put to the o-rings when assembling, right? Just curious that why not use high viscosity oil like what you would put to the fork air chamber?


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

ErnoNykanen said:


> Grease here means the same stuff as with what you put to the o-rings when assembling, right? Just curious that why not use high viscosity oil like what you would put to the fork air chamber?


Yes. You can use either. Grease is less of a mess when resetting the neg chamber


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## Biggs427 (Dec 8, 2017)

ibis315 said:


> Yes. You can use either. Grease is less of a mess when resetting the neg chamber


Would grease like Silkoleum/ SRAM butter be ok?

Thanks


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

Biggs427 said:


> Would grease like Silkoleum/ SRAM butter be ok?
> 
> Thanks


Yes. Any suspension seal-safe grease works


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

trumphair said:


> If you are bottoming out too easily at your desired sag you need LESS air volume, not more. A king can will make your problem worse.
> 
> What you need is air volume reduction via volume spacers, grease, or whatever you prefer to use to take up space in the positive air chamber. This will make your curve more progressive and therefore increase bottom out resistance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


This was the reason I did not buy a king can for two years.. because this is what people on this forum were saying.. it's logical so I understand why, but in this case it's not true.

The king can works ? better than the stock can on my hightower 135mm travel. Not one person on this forum including the experts recommend to try the king can.. it was always the same, standard can for your leverage curve etc.

The king can has better mid stroke support (in a big way), so less of an issue bottoming out. The rebound and compression circuits work better with king can(idk the physics but I was always fussing with rebound before and off on ipa didn't work well, works great now), plus with king can you can use volumes spacers so it's more easily tunable.

Using grease in in standard can as volume spacers sucks imo.. it's imprecise when you are trying to tune it.

It's a win win all the way around and I would recommend to anyone/everyone to buy a king can.

Just think about it this way, look how RockShox marketed the debonair... which is what king can is essentially. It's an improvement on the standard can and like someone said in this forum should come standard with King can. RockShox only sells the debonair on bikes now...

If you are doing aggressive trail riding I'd go king can without hesitation.

Worst case you can put enough volume spacers to make king can act like standard so there's no risk.

It's a no brainer to try.

Again not sure why this whole thing with king can not working well with certain bikes started. Fox and RockShox both use higher volume cans across the board because they work better.


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

Higher volume cans work better with certain leverage curves, and worse with others. The king can is not some sort of magic bullet....all it does is allow for greater air volume. If you are bottoming out at your desired sag, to combat this with the air spring you need to REDUCE air volume. Everyone says this because that is how air suspension works. It's not up for debate....it's physics. 

So, again, if you are bottoming out too easily adding the king can and setting your sag at the same % will make your problem worse and not better. You would need to continue adding volume spacers until you are at some air volume level that is less than the volume of the standard can.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

trumphair said:


> Higher volume cans work better with certain leverage curves, and worse with others. The king can is not some sort of magic bullet....all it does is allow for greater air volume. If you are bottoming out at your desired sag, to combat this with the air spring you need to REDUCE air volume. Everyone says this because that is how air suspension works. It's not up for debate....it's physics.
> 
> So, again, if you are bottoming out too easily adding the king can and setting your sag at the same % will make your problem worse and not better. You would need to continue adding volume spacers until you are at some air volume level that is less than the volume of the standard can.


The key piece you are missing is with King Can you run higher air pressure to achieve same sag but what you gain is better mid stroke and bottom resistance.

Trust me, ive been riding for 20+ years moto and bikes.. The reason I didnt use king can on hightower for last 2 years was because of talking points like yours.. I'm saying im running it and it works better.

I did add one rockshox volume spacer and im running higher air pressure to get same sag.. the shock with the king can flat out works better period.. just no way around it.

So while you can talk all you want im talking real world benefit that have been tested and proven.

Now I do not ride bike park or anything insane.. just aggressive trail riding... so idk maybe standard can works better if you are launching huge drops.. could very well be the case and I think dougal said as much.

Its total worth 90$ for 90% percent of riders irregardless of leverage curve.. The fact that it works so well on hightower bears that out.

Im just trying to help people out with my experience!


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

Again, it's not a "talking point." I'm explaining how air suspension works. Adding a king can does nothing but increase air volume, which makes the air curve more linear. To combat bottoming out you need to make the curve more progressive. That is literally the opposite of what the king can does. Maybe the King Can works better for your bike...I have no idea? Your experience with your bike is not relevant to all bikes because bikes have different leverage curves. 

I have a Ripley V4 with the standard can and REDUCED air volume and it works great. That is my experience.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

trumphair said:


> Again, it's not a "talking point." I'm explaining how air suspension works. Adding a king can does nothing but increase air volume, which makes the air curve more linear. To combat bottoming out you need to make the curve more progressive. That is literally the opposite of what the king can does. Maybe the King Can works better for your bike...I have no idea? Your experience with your bike is not relevant to all bikes because bikes have different leverage curves.
> 
> I have a Ripley V4 with the standard can and REDUCED air volume and it works great. That is my experience.


Have you tried the king can?


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

seamarsh said:


> This was the reason I did not buy a king can for two years.. because this is what people on this forum were saying.. it's logical so I understand why, but in this case it's not true.
> 
> The king can works  better than the stock can on my hightower 135mm travel. Not one person on this forum including the experts recommend to try the king can.. it was always the same, standard can for your leverage curve etc.
> 
> ...


Problem with Hightower and other VPP design is the digressive leverage curve :








The hump in the middle of the stroke is the reason there is no support in this region of the travel.

With King Can and other higher volume shocks like DebonAir, the spring rate is more linear allowing you to run higher pressure to achieve the same end stroke support without harsh spike in end-spring force and add support in the middle. You'll see a lot of Hightower riders with coil to achieve this.

With progressive leverage curve like Ripley and other designs in this chart, small volume air shocks are needed to over-come the steep curve of the initial travel range to mid-stroke :









Notice how the Ripley's curve flattens out from sag point towards the end of travel, almost linear. Other frame designs' leverage ratio lowers further towards the end of the travel. This is the reason why Ripley bottoms out easier since it has higher overall force at the end stroke compared to Evil MB for instance. This requires higher compression ratio at the shock by reducing the air volume.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

ibis315 said:


> Problem with Hightower and other VPP design is the digressive leverage curve :
> View attachment 1280475
> 
> 
> ...


have you tried the king can?


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## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

"The McLeod King Can gives you a premium performance upgrade, providing a more linear spring curve for longer travel bikes. It offers better mid-stroke support without limiting full travel. It's also very sensitive off the top of the stroke for small bump compliance. Serviceable by riders, it offers 54% more air volume than our standard McLeod can."

I think the key here is its designed for longer travel bikes? And is more user friendly for air volume reduction?

https://themtblab.com/2017/02/just-in-manitou-mcleod-rear-shock-and-king-can.html This review pretty much mirrors what Manitou says about the King Can.

For $99 Im willing to try it. It only comes in 3 sizes? I have a 210x55mm shock. Do I go larger or smaller?


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

evan9r said:


> "The McLeod King Can gives you a premium performance upgrade, providing a more linear spring curve for longer travel bikes. It offers better mid-stroke support without limiting full travel. It's also very sensitive off the top of the stroke for small bump compliance. Serviceable by riders, it offers 54% more air volume than our standard McLeod can."
> 
> I think the key here is its designed for longer travel bikes? And is more user friendly for air volume reduction?
> 
> ...


As in the description you just posted, the king can is a more linear spring curve. A more linear curve is going to make it easier to bottom out. Since the problem you are trying to solve is that you bottom out too easily, a king can without spacers is going to make the problem worse. It's your money.....maybe the king can will look better.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

evan9r said:


> "The McLeod King Can gives you a premium performance upgrade, providing a more linear spring curve for longer travel bikes. It offers better mid-stroke support without limiting full travel. It's also very sensitive off the top of the stroke for small bump compliance. Serviceable by riders, it offers 54% more air volume than our standard McLeod can."
> 
> I think the key here is its designed for longer travel bikes? And is more user friendly for air volume reduction?
> 
> ...


I honestly just think its not really marketed well at all, like most manitou stuff. If you look at marketing material for fox evol can or rockshox debonair, which are designed to do that same thing you will find better sales pitch.

The key things to pull from the what you posted are "better mid stroke support" and "small bump sensitivity" these are both objectively good things to add. On top of that you can use volumes spacers as I have stated, so what not to like?

I bought mine from https://takeahikeshop.com/products/manitou-mcleod-upgrade-kit

You could call them about sizing.. they only sell 2 sizes afaik.

What is a longer travel bike? I would say the ripmo at just under 150mm is that.. The Hightower is 135mm and it works great. Is anything above 120mm longer travel.. again it's just poorly written marketing jargon.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

trumphair said:


> As in the description you just posted, the king can is a more linear spring curve. A more linear curve is going to make it easier to bottom out. Since the problem you are trying to solve is that you bottom out too easily, a king can without spacers is going to make the problem worse. It's your money.....maybe the king can will look better.


You haven't answered if you have ever used a king can.. which by not responding I'm guessing you have not.

If you haven't, you have zero authority to speculate and you are literally just using talking points.. maybe you should give one a shot.. you might be surprised how well it works!

You also seem to not be reading everything.. its has better mid stroke support and you can use volume spacers to tune it so you wont bottom out.

Honestly don't see why you are so anti the king can.. its weird dude..


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

seamarsh said:


> You haven't answered if you have ever used a king can.. which by not responding I'm guessing you have not.
> 
> If you haven't, you have zero authority to speculate and you are literally just using talking points.. maybe you should give one a shot.. you might be surprised how well it works!
> 
> ...


You are making a straw man argument. Why would I add air volume when I need to reduce air volume? It would literally make no sense. My Mcleod with the standard can and reduced air volume consistently has a near perfect score with a Shockwiz that I use to test and tune all of my bikes.

Several people have tried to very clearly and logically (with pictures and everything!) explain why the king can works for some frames and why it's not needed on other frames. No point in continuing this further.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

evan9r said:


> For $99 Im willing to try it. It only comes in 3 sizes? I have a 210x55mm shock. Do I go larger or smaller?


The King-Can for your 210x55 metric eyelet shock is: 142-31535-K032 and I don't have that one on order sheets yet.

It's the same can as the 200x56 imperial eyelet shock, but has a different spacer setup: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-king-can-dual-air-can-200-x-56-mm-manitou.html

If I'm reading the charts right (I might not be) then it needs 4.8mm of spacer in the air-can under the top-out bumper. 4x of these will give you 5.0mm: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trumphair said:


> You are making a straw man argument. Why would I add air volume when I need to reduce air volume? It would literally make no sense. My Mcleod with the standard can and reduced air volume consistently has a near perfect score with a Shockwiz that I use to test and tune all of my bikes.
> 
> Several people have tried to very clearly and logically (with pictures and everything!) explain why the king can works for some frames and why it's not needed on other frames. No point in continuing this further.


Shockwiz is a waste of time IMO. An overly progressive air-can only suits a certain sort of riding and if you don't do that sort of riding then the results aren't nice.

The point of bigger air volume is to straighten out the spring curve and allow higher pressure and less sag while still having a spring-rate that works through the mid-stroke and into end-stroke.

My view is the std can vs king-can are more about riding type than frame type.


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Shockwiz is a waste of time IMO. An overly progressive air-can only suits a certain sort of riding and if you don't do that sort of riding then the results aren't nice.
> 
> The point of bigger air volume is to straighten out the spring curve and allow higher pressure and less sag while still having a spring-rate that works through the mid-stroke and into end-stroke.
> 
> My view is the std can vs king-can are more about riding type than frame type.


So, as a professional suspension tuner, if I went to you and said, "My sag is at manufacturer's recommendation and I'm overall happy with performance but I'm bottoming out way too easily," you would suggest to me that I add air volume?? Serious question.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

trumphair said:


> You are making a straw man argument. Why would I add air volume when I need to reduce air volume? It would literally make no sense. My Mcleod with the standard can and reduced air volume consistently has a near perfect score with a Shockwiz that I use to test and tune all of my bikes.
> 
> Several people have tried to very clearly and logically (with pictures and everything!) explain why the king can works for some frames and why it's not needed on other frames. No point in continuing this further.


You haven't tried it so you can't really say, that is the bottom line. it's strange that you are so angry about the king can, I'm sorry I triggered you.

Btw, that's not a a strawman argument, I'm going on what I found in real world.

Graphs are great and all, but garage math only gets you so far, you should really try and be a little more open minded.. we are talking about mountain bikes! Not politics

I bet if you tried king can you might be surprised! Or maybe you wouldn't but at least you wouldn't be talking About something you've never used.

✌


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trumphair said:


> So, as a professional suspension tuner, if I went to you and said, "My sag is at manufacturer's recommendation and I'm overall happy with performance but I'm bottoming out way too easily," you would suggest to me that I add air volume?? Serious question.


I'd start from scratch and check the entire setup.

Stacking stuff full of spacers is a terrible approach. You end up storing and returning a whole lot of bump energy that throws everything out.


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## brash (Dec 4, 2018)

Best suspension tuning tip I ever received was "cut your travel indicator o-ring off" 

It's great if you are a complete novice and need all the help you can get to dial in 20-30%, but once you have an understanding of the basics and can relate what you are feeling on the bike to a successful tuning parameter the o-ring is redundant.

Sag % is a reference number, not the be all and end all.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

brash said:


> Best suspension tuning tip I ever received was "cut your travel indicator o-ring off"
> 
> It's great if you are a complete novice and need all the help you can get to dial in 20-30%, but once you have an understanding of the basics and can relate what you are feeling on the bike to a successful tuning parameter the o-ring is redundant.
> 
> Sag % is a reference number, not the be all and end all.


How many people get stressed out when they don't use all their cars suspension travel?


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## trumphair (Nov 2, 2017)

No one suggested stacking stuff full of spacers. In all the internet wisdom that has been posted, perhaps we have forgotten the original post that started all of this. 

A poster had an Ibis Ripmo, had set their sag, and was bottoming too easily. Their very simple question was, "how do I increase bottom out resistance." It wasn't 'I need more mid stroke support' or any other fill in the blank forum buzz words. There could be many answers to this question but if you have your sag % where you want it the answer to this question is most certainly not to make your air spring more linear and go from there. 

It would be like an ER doctor treating a stab wound by shooting the patient and then stitching up both holes. Ultimately the patient was treated but not in the correct manner.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

trumphair said:


> No one suggested stacking stuff full of spacers. In all the internet wisdom that has been posted, perhaps we have forgotten the original post that started all of this.
> 
> A poster had an Ibis Ripmo, had set their sag, and was bottoming too easily. Their very simple question was, "how do I increase bottom out resistance." It wasn't 'I need more mid stroke support' or any other fill in the blank forum buzz words. There could be many answers to this question but if you have your sag % where you want it the answer to this question is most certainly not to make your air spring more linear and go from there.
> 
> It would be like an ER doctor treating a stab wound by shooting the patient and then stitching up both holes. Ultimately the patient was treated but not in the correct manner.


That's the problem isn't it, the poster was basing his setup on sag 

seamarsh, if you would have asked me, I could have told you Manitou themselves recommended a king can for my VPP bike. 

Sort of. And it was in a roundabout way. But some might remember, Vorsprung had their corset for Fox shocks.

https://vorsprungsuspension.com/blogs/news/17562332-how-well-will-the-corset-work-with-my-frame

And they specifically address upper link VPP:



> 4. Digressive-linear-progressive - leverage ratio INCREASES (this is known as a digressive or falling rate because the spring rate at the wheel falls, not because the leverage rate falls), flattens out (linear) then decreases again (progressive). Examples - pretty much all VPP bikes where the shock is driven off the top link; Nomad/Tracer/Bronson/Carbine/Blur/etc.
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


What some are missing is that VPP is stiff off the top. So we run the pressure a little lower to save our backs. Then we blow through the mid stroke and then bottom out, or hit that wall of progression (happened to me all of the time on my v1 bronson and Fox shock, Wallow out then bam, hit a brick wall).

Because the corset (and king can) is more linear, you can run higher pressures without worrying about that initial harshness.

All things being equal a linear can should bottom out easier but in this case, an upper link VPP, you're running a higher pressure than a smaller can, so the entire curve shifts upward I believe. On top of that, the VPP gets progressive at the end.

You see Steve from Vorsprung right there say you're still going to have a hard time using up the travel because the bike's leverage curve is is progressive. This is with the bigger volume more linear air can.

So anyway, I sent that article to Manitou to ask them out shim tuning etc. Someone named Nick looked at the article and replied, "yeah that looks like our king can. Get it."

Lol.


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## ErnoNykanen (Sep 6, 2019)

Dougal said:


> How many people get stressed out when they don't use all their cars suspension travel?


I think this is the kind of common sense that's so often is easily lost in forum specs'ing focusing on theorycraft. Nothing wrong with theorycraft of course but sometimes it's just presented as the only truth even though in reality the tangible differences can be negligible.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

ErnoNykanen said:


> I think this is the kind of common sense that's so often is easily lost in forum specs'ing focusing on theorycraft. Nothing wrong with theorycraft of course but sometimes it's just presented as the only truth even though in reality the tangible differences can be negligible.


Yes, I have made this point for years with little interest. Suspension travel is about quality not quantity. That travel indicator is a very very bad measure of suspension performance.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I don’t quite agree with this line of thought. Sure, you don’t want to be using full travel so frequently that it bottoms when you hit something hard and if it’s real mild terrain it’s ok to only use half or 2/3 travel, but if you are riding varied terrain all the time and never getting close, you got a problem.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Those little o-rings are getting a lot of hate lately, maybe as a backlash to people putting too much value on them. It's just one more tool in the box. If you focus on it you will certainly be missing other details, but if you just add it to the collected data it can be useful to know.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

ibis315 said:


> Problem with Hightower and other VPP design is the digressive leverage curve :
> View attachment 1280475
> 
> 
> ...


Quick question...how would one go about getting a graph like that for a 2018 Pivot Mach 429 Trail? Thanks.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Jayem said:


> I don't quite agree with this line of thought. Sure, you don't want to be using full travel so frequently that it bottoms when you hit something hard and if it's real mild terrain it's ok to only use half or 2/3 travel, but if you are riding varied terrain all the time and never getting close, you got a problem.


1/2 or 2/3 leaves a lot of stroke left, in those cases I would agree with you. If you are regularly using 3/4 or more, but not hitting the bumper , that's ok in my opinion (depending on how you ride)

The theory that you should bottom out at least once on every ride, the "you paid for "x" amount of travel, you should be using it" theory, is harmful. A lot of riders are under skilled and over biked. Buying 160mm bikes, riding xc trails and their tires never leave the ground. In cases like that, if you're using full travel, your set up is full of bad compromises in order to use full travel.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trumphair said:


> No one suggested stacking stuff full of spacers. In all the internet wisdom that has been posted, perhaps we have forgotten the original post that started all of this.
> 
> A poster had an Ibis Ripmo, had set their sag, and was bottoming too easily. Their very simple question was, "how do I increase bottom out resistance." It wasn't 'I need more mid stroke support' or any other fill in the blank forum buzz words. There could be many answers to this question but if you have your sag % where you want it the answer to this question is most certainly not to make your air spring more linear and go from there.
> 
> It would be like an ER doctor treating a stab wound by shooting the patient and then stitching up both holes. Ultimately the patient was treated but not in the correct manner.


You suggested stacking spacers inside to stop it bottoming. That is stacking it full of spacers to stop it bottoming out. It has nothing to do with shooting patients.

It takes an incredible amount of spring rate progression to deal with the same bump energy as the correct amount of compression damping.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Quick question...how would one go about getting a graph like that for a 2018 Pivot Mach 429 Trail? Thanks.


Linkage Design


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

50k of single track today and the smooth consistency of the McLeod kept me fresh with 0 fatigue...Awesome!


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

Symion said:


> Hi guys,
> i may present the *McLeod - Highlander tuning. There can be only one!*
> This tuning takes the really good McLeod platform to another level and can easyly challenge the top end dampers from Fox, Cane Creek and BOS.
> 
> ...


Can you expand on the work you did to change the lower chamber into self-equalizing negative chamber? Where in the stroke does the pressure equalize? At top-out or sag?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ibis315 said:


> Can you expand on the work you did to change the lower chamber into self-equalizing negative chamber? Where in the stroke does the pressure equalize? At top-out or sag?


You punch a dimple into it. I did it to a few shocks a long time ago and still have the tooling I made to do so. It had some upsides, it had some downsides.

The pressure needs to equalise long before sag.


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

Dougal said:


> You punch a dimple into it. I did it to a few shocks a long time ago and still have the tooling I made to do so. It had some upsides, it had some downsides.
> 
> The pressure needs to equalise long before sag.


Hi Dougal,

I'm assuming you modified the standard can. How about the King Can? Would drilling a hole in the lower chamber near the bottom seal achieve the same result?

What were your positives and negatives?

Thanks


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ibis315 said:


> Hi Dougal,
> 
> I'm assuming you modified the standard can. How about the King Can? Would drilling a hole in the lower chamber near the bottom seal achieve the same result?
> 
> ...


I have done both standard and King-Cans. Drilling a hole is the easy part. Stopping ugly wear and eating seals is the hard part. You need a dimple and then drill the dimple.

It gets expensive as a notch in the wrong place murders your air-can.

The big negative was too much forced sag. Which worked well for one particular bike. The second was a dead spot in the stroke where it was equalising.

The upsides were consistent pos/neg equalising and it meant the stone chip on the shock body wasn't as big a problem.


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

Dougal said:


> I have done both standard and King-Cans. Drilling a hole is the easy part. Stopping ugly wear and eating seals is the hard part. You need a dimple and then drill the dimple.
> 
> It gets expensive as a notch in the wrong place murders your air-can.
> 
> ...


How about just increasing the neg chamber by having the hole below the piston seal? This would save the seal and not have it self equalize forcing sag.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

edit..o yea nvm


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ibis315 said:


> How about just increasing the neg chamber by having the hole below the piston seal? This would save the seal and not have it self equalize forcing sag.


Not enough air molecules in trapped negative for that.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So from what you are saying, I take that the easiest way to get a larger negative air chamber would be to add an air valve to the lower part of the can, aspecially for those without proper tools or experience, additionally there is no risk of improper port calculation.
I'd like to achieve a bit more mid stroke support, I have a 200x57 shock in a 190x50 frame lowered by decreasing negative volume. King can would be a bit pricey for me to experiment on, by removing the oring (volume spacer) I'd get a larger volume, but with no higher pressure the stroke would be longer than I want (the longer shock fits though) 
The question is, what affect does a larger negative chamber have on end stroke? I'm asking cause the standard can is on the small side for me, last 10% are unachievable under normal circumstances (when front uses all travel) the only way I found to bottom it out was a 1.5m high drop to flat, for me it's an overkill, I don't want to invest in a king can just to stuff it with spacers to a bit larger volume than stock, a dual air can would be worth the upgrade though.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

*Is there something I'm missing?*

I just got an idea.... What about making a hole in the king can, not at the lowest bottom, but a bit higher, say 3mm from the edge, so that the piston can pass it on full extension, would only work if you have a longer shock and want to shorten it, first setup would be annoying af cause you'd need to figure out the proper pressure, but then you'd just use the written down values. 
Pump up the air pressure higher than your desired riding pressure, mayby even to max allowed pressure, make sure the piston passed the air port several times to equalise pressure in both chambers, compress the shock past the air port, release pressure from the main chamber, now you have set a desired negative chamber pressure, add pressure to the main chamber till desired shock extension is achieved, check sag, if its too soft- repeat with higher negative pressure. Rinse and repeat till desired setup is achieved.
This way you don't have accelerated seal wear, as the seal passes the port only upon setting the pressure, it also gives pretty much unlimited setup options, this can be both a good and a bad thing. Anyone tried or thought of any potential issues I haven't thought about? Few grams more from longer shock are irrelevant, as a bonus you get more oil volume, though only a few shock lengths relate to each other so that it would be possible.


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## stonant (Mar 11, 2016)

I figured before I start a new thread I would post here first; anyone get their hands on a mara pro yet? MSRP is a bit steep but I am thinking about springing for one. I have a DVO Topaz but in the long run I think it would be better to spring for the Mara Pro then to send my topaz away for rebuilds when the bladder dies. I suppose I could take the time and spend the money on the tools necessary to rebuild the Topaz at home but I have little/no interest in doing that.


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## Smokee300 (Jul 8, 2014)

Would any of you have insight on running a Mcleod on a 2015 Devinci Troy Carbon XP?

The bike currently has the stock RT3 7.875x2.0. I'm most interested in mounting hardware, hoping that the current hardware will work. I've emailed Manitou a couple of times, but haven't heard back.

Thanks


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

stonant said:


> I figured before I start a new thread I would post here first; anyone get their hands on a mara pro yet? MSRP is a bit steep but I am thinking about springing for one. I have a DVO Topaz but in the long run I think it would be better to spring for the Mara Pro then to send my topaz away for rebuilds when the bladder dies. I suppose I could take the time and spend the money on the tools necessary to rebuild the Topaz at home but I have little/no interest in doing that.


Mara thread...
https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-susp...ggy-back-shock-spotted-sea-otter-1101572.html


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

I heard someone say there was a new IFP 3in1 tool coming. Any news on that, part number?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CS645 said:


> I heard someone say there was a new IFP 3in1 tool coming. Any news on that, part number?


I haven't heard anything. The original is pretty damn good.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Dougal said:


> I haven't heard anything. The original is pretty damn good.


Ok, I'll put it on my Christmas list.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Anyone have an unwanted King can I could do some testing on?  I'm broke atm.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

This has probably been asked before, but can you do a negative air reset with the McLeod on the bike? I have about 75 miles on my new McLeod on my Ripme. 

The McLeod is definitely better than the DPX2 for me. I weigh 160 on a medium frame.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Prophet Julio said:


> This has probably been asked before, but can you do a negative air reset with the McLeod on the bike? I have about 75 miles on my new McLeod on my Ripme.
> 
> The McLeod is definitely better than the DPX2 for me. I weigh 160 on a medium frame.


You have to unscrew the air can right? That's probably easier on the bike because you can compress the suspension to avoid damaging the threads, using the bike as a press. A strap wrench will probably be the easiest to use to get the can off in this situation, compared to if you take it off and put it in a vice.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Jayem said:


> You have to unscrew the air can right? That's probably easier on the bike because you can compress the suspension to avoid damaging the threads, using the bike as a press. A strap wrench will probably be the easiest to use to get the can off in this situation, compared to if you take it off and put it in a vice.


That's how I do it. Then take it of the bike (aircan can't get off enough to reset when on the bike). Then clean and lube it and reverse the process.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I used a strap wrench and it came off nicely. Do I need to remove the air can completely, or do I just screw it back on?


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Prophet Julio said:


> I used a strap wrench and it came off nicely. Do I need to remove the air can completely, or do I just screw it back on?


You'll have to apply some force untill you hear it "plop". Then it is far enough.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I appreciate the help that you guys have offered. The reset is done and it probably didn't need it, but I know how it works now. I do have another question though. I have a sticky transition from compression to extension. When I say sticky it feels like the shock transitions with a slight bump. I have a bit over 10 hours on the McLeod. I don't notice it riding, but I do notice it when I'm just bouncing the bike a couple of inches up and down. Is that just a break in issue? I never noticed it on my other bike with the McLeod.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Did you grease the seals?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Mac1987 said:


> Did you grease the seals?


No. The shock is practically new. 40 or 50 miles on it now. Still doing the same thing on transition from compression to rebound. I will grease the seals and give it a good look off the bike.

Other than the hiccup, it works great on the Ripmo. In fact, I only notice the transitional bump when I am pedaling on smooth pavement. So maybe the big question is "Why do I care?" Ha! I just know when something shouldn't be happening, I keep coming back to it. But only when I'm in the lot going back to the car.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Prophet Julio said:


> No. The shock is practically new. 40 or 50 miles on it now. Still doing the same thing on transition from compression to rebound. I will grease the seals and give it a good look off the bike.
> 
> Other than the hiccup, it works great on the Ripmo. In fact, I only notice the transitional bump when I am pedaling on smooth pavement. So maybe the big question is "Why do I care?" Ha! I just know when something shouldn't be happening, I keep coming back to it. But only when I'm in the lot going back to the car.


My brand new Mcleod was completely dry. I would highly recommend lubing the seals.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

I am trying to order a King can for a 210x55 Shock. Looking at old posts it looks like 200x56 is the can I want. Is this correct? Do I need to add spacers? Thanks for the help


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

It's always good to check new forks and shocks. If the seals aren't greased properly, you might end up with a worn stanchion.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

JillRide45 said:


> I am trying to order a King can for a 210x55 Shock. Looking at old posts it looks like 200x56 is the can I want. Is this correct? Do I need to add spacers? Thanks for the help
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I talked with Manitou USA this morning and they say they have no plans to make a King Can for the metric shocks! The service rep said that some of the old cans can work but you will need parts they do not offer. So if someone can tell me what will work and how I can make an old can work let me know. I actually said to the Manitou guy well I guess I will have to go with Cane Creek and he said that is exactly what I would do!


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The seals are all nicely greased. I have two large white spacers in the air can. It is a 210 x 55 metric. What are those? I never see them in any of the service manuals or videos. They are not in my original McLeods (7.875 x 2) I think they are knocking when they get compressed. One is 10mm deep and the other is 3mm deep.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

So after some thinking, I believe these spacers limit stroke to 55mm. The shock, without the air can is 210mm eye to eye + or -. The foam bumper is in space at top out without the spacers. I put the spacers on the other side of the foam bumper, but it made no difference. Not sure what the transition bump is.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

Prophet Julio said:


> So after some thinking, I believe these spacers limit stroke to 55mm. The shock, without the air can is 210mm eye to eye + or -. The foam bumper is in space at top out without the spacers. I put the spacers on the other side of the foam bumper, but it made no difference. Not sure what the transition bump is.


If those spacers are just in the air can could they just be air volume reducers to make the shock more progressive?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

JillRide45 said:


> I talked with Manitou USA this morning and they say they have no plans to make a King Can for the metric shocks! The service rep said that some of the old cans can work but you will need parts they do not offer. So if someone can tell me what will work and how I can make an old can work let me know. I actually said to the Manitou guy well I guess I will have to go with Cane Creek and he said that is exactly what I would do!


According to my information, the 210x55 and 200x56 share a aircan. King can part number 183- 31983 C105.

The spacers Prophet Julio has are in all metric air cans, so you will need to pull them from your regular can and install them in the king can.

My sheet also shows that there are no metric specific air cans, they all cross over the various imperial sizes. I will try to verify tomorrow.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Prophet Julio said:


> So after some thinking, I believe these spacers limit stroke to 55mm. The shock, without the air can is 210mm eye to eye + or -. The foam bumper is in space at top out without the spacers. I put the spacers on the other side of the foam bumper, but it made no difference. Not sure what the transition bump is.


Mines does same thing.. this is a replacement, one before did it too. Think it's exasperated by certain linkages.. or maybe some don't notice. I will say it went away with king can.. it's still a little there but not as present. King can is hands down better imo!. If you read above in this thread you will see my posts about king can.

My advice.. get a king can.

This is on a og hightower.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Seamarsh, I will check into that. In the meantime, I have been experimenting with the McLeod, and if I turn the rebound all the way to full damping, it will pop twice as it extends. I am going to try this with the air can removed. Any ideas? I'll keep you posted.

Mullen, I have a 200 x 56 so I'll check the size. I checked and my 200 x 50, 200 x 56 and 210 x 55 all have different sized air cans. Though it looks like the 200 x 50 air can would work without spacers.

And JillRide 45, the spacers are to take up the space for the top out bumper.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Prophet Julio said:


> Seamarsh, I will check into that. In the meantime, I have been experimenting with the McLeod, and if I turn the rebound all the way to full damping, it will pop twice as it extends. I am going to try this with the air can removed. Any ideas? I'll keep you posted.
> 
> Mullen, I have a 200 x 56 so I'll check the size. I checked and my 200 x 50, 200 x 56 and 210 x 55 all have different sized air cans. Though it looks like the 200 x 50 air can would work without spacers.
> 
> And JillRide 45, the spacers are to take up the space for the top out bumper.


here is knock with standard can.. this shock was replaced by manitou and knock was a little better with replacement but still there.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

seamarsh said:


> here is knock with standard can.. this shock was replaced by manitou and knock was a little better with replacement but still there.


Does it do that with no air can installed?

Send that video to [email protected]


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> Does it do that with no air can installed?
> 
> Send that video to [email protected]


I did, that's who I made the video for, they replaced that shock.. sorry thought that was clear from my post. My new replacement shock still has the knock a bit but less so.. it's even less of issue with king can.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

seamarsh said:


> I did, that's who I made the video for, they replaced that shock.. sorry thought that was clear from my post. My new replacement shock still has the knock a bit but less so.. it's even less of issue with king can.


Ha, you did make it clear. I was just skimming the thread and clicked on the video and missed the context. My fault


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

JillRide45 said:


> I talked with Manitou USA this morning and they say they have no plans to make a King Can for the metric shocks! The service rep said that some of the old cans can work but you will need parts they do not offer. So if someone can tell me what will work and how I can make an old can work let me know. I actually said to the Manitou guy well I guess I will have to go with Cane Creek and he said that is exactly what I would do!


Just want to clarify that this is incorrect and someone at Manitou gave me incorrect information. Manitou took care of my needs and were very helpful in getting me what I will need. Everyone at Manitou really stepped up and made sure I was taken care of. Also a big thank you to Mullen119 for all his help in this.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

kartracer said:


> I'm looking at the Cane Creek OPT remote. It's similar functionally to a thumbie shifter in that it's infinitely adjustable anywhere you want to run the setting. I checked with Cane Creek and the OPT has 23mm of cable pull ... 4-5mm more than what's needed so it will move the IPA between the full range.
> View attachment 1252835
> 
> View attachment 1252836


Did you (or anyone else) try this by chance? I'm trying to figure out how to run a single remote that works for the pull to lock McCleod and the pull to UNLOCK Sid Ultimate fork. I was thinking I could MacGyver a wire off the front side for the shock. That way when I'm pulling the wire taught and locking out the rear, I hit a point around position 4 on the McCleod switch where the front wire I added has relaxed enough for the front fork to lock out. Hopefully there's enough friction and the springs on the fork/shock are balanced enough it would stay in place. And this would allow me to use a regular dropper lever.

I have some other remote ideas I'm trying to figure out that I've done some proof of concept on but this seems simplest. Along with reverse winding my own spring for the McCleod so that it defaults to closed and then I could use just any remote and have both be pull to unlock.


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## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

JillRide45 said:


> Just want to clarify that this is incorrect and someone at Manitou gave me incorrect information. Manitou took care of my needs and were very helpful in getting me what I will need. Everyone at Manitou really stepped up and made sure I was taken care of. Also a big thank you to Mullen119 for all his help in this.


Can you share the information? I was told the same thing by Manitou when I inquired about a King Can for the 210x55.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

In the bleed video they use an air compressor to scoot the IFP piston out. OTher than blowing really hard through a straw, how are you guys doing this, or is it unnecessary?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> In the bleed video they use an air compressor to scoot the IFP piston out. OTher than blowing really hard through a straw, how are you guys doing this, or is it unnecessary?


You can use a shock pump


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

So it's been awhile since I've read through and truly ridden my Unveil 9(HammerHead Thumper)

I was riding yesterday and noticed that when I force compress the McLeod, say to bunny hop or or preload for a jump that when it fully extends it makes a knocking noise. Doesn't seem normal to me, so would love some feedback.









Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

Sorry if this has been addressed before, but could not find the answer using the search. 

When I attach the 3-in-1 tool for the IFP, is there a way to confirm that the IFP is actually getting air? I just wanted to confirm the IFP pressure of a new shock so I put the IFP tool on, then my shock pump on. The shock pump never registered any pressure and as I pumped it seemed to just be pressuring the hose. I assumed that I had to get above the current IFP pressure to see anything. So brilliant me (not) I released the pressure from the IFP, put the tool on, and started pumping. At 300psi the shock pump does not stay stable and slowly bleeds air and pressure drops. Maybe pump is leaking, but I am wondering if the valve in the tool is not opening correctly and air is just slowly leaking into the IFP. When I have the tool on the end of the shock pump I can only feel a small amount of air coming through. I have watched all the Manitou videos and of course they just pump up. Just wondering if others see this same thing? Thanks


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TeamRWB said:


> So it's been awhile since I've read through and truly ridden my Unveil 9(HammerHead Thumper)
> 
> I was riding yesterday and noticed that when I force compress the McLeod, say to bunny hop or or preload for a jump that when it fully extends it makes a knocking noise. Doesn't seem normal to me, so would love some feedback.
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


First reset the air-can by taking it off, regreasing and reinstalling. This makes the negative spring work like it should.

If it's still doing it after, then it may be time for damper service. Foamed up oil makes a shock damping inconsistent and can knock.



JillRide45 said:


> Sorry if this has been addressed before, but could not find the answer using the search.
> 
> When I attach the 3-in-1 tool for the IFP, is there a way to confirm that the IFP is actually getting air? I just wanted to confirm the IFP pressure of a new shock so I put the IFP tool on, then my shock pump on. The shock pump never registered any pressure and as I pumped it seemed to just be pressuring the hose. I assumed that I had to get above the current IFP pressure to see anything. So brilliant me (not) I released the pressure from the IFP, put the tool on, and started pumping. At 300psi the shock pump does not stay stable and slowly bleeds air and pressure drops. Maybe pump is leaking, but I am wondering if the valve in the tool is not opening correctly and air is just slowly leaking into the IFP. When I have the tool on the end of the shock pump I can only feel a small amount of air coming through. I have watched all the Manitou videos and of course they just pump up. Just wondering if others see this same thing? Thanks


If the IFP isn't pressurised then the shock will be limp and not self-extend without the air-can on.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

Cerpss said:


> Did you (or anyone else) try this by chance? I'm trying to figure out how to run a single remote that works for the pull to lock McCleod and the pull to UNLOCK Sid Ultimate fork. I was thinking I could MacGyver a wire off the front side for the shock. That way when I'm pulling the wire taught and locking out the rear, I hit a point around position 4 on the McCleod switch where the front wire I added has relaxed enough for the front fork to lock out. Hopefully there's enough friction and the springs on the fork/shock are balanced enough it would stay in place. And this would allow me to use a regular dropper lever.
> 
> I have some other remote ideas I'm trying to figure out that I've done some proof of concept on but this seems simplest. Along with reverse winding my own spring for the McCleod so that it defaults to closed and then I could use just any remote and have both be pull to unlock.


Unfortunately it was determined that the Cane Creek OPT remote won't work ... not enough friction.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Too bad, that sounded like it would be a really nice setup


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Sorry for not chiming in sooner. We lost power here for a few days. Lots of wind with downed trees. 

Thanks for the video seamarsh. And Mullen I have not tried it without the air can. Rain for the next couple of days, so should get a chance.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

I have 2 extra grey air can stickers if anyone wants them. Just send me a PM and I'll send them in a regular envelope. Quality on the sticker is just a small touch below the factory sticker. The grey is just a bit off grey but overall is a large improvement if the red lettering does not match your frame colors.


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

Hi guys,

I have the Fox Float RP23 on my CUBE AMS Pro 100 XC bike and the pro pedal 
stopped working 2 years ago. I've sent the shock for service and it worked for
a couple of weeks and then it stopped again...

After reading this huge thread I have decided to try the McLeod while 
its still available. I've contacted Bike-Discount and asked them for the 
date of manufacture. They declined to tell me! Are they selling the 
faulty batch? Why they are not telling me the date? Has anybody 
bought one recently from them?

Thanks.

[edit]
They just told me. Its 2019.
Anyway, is it possible to use compressed air in the RP23 instead of Nitrogen?)


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

It's possible to use compressed air. It just decreases the maintenance interval (nitrogen molecules are larger and therefore leak away at a lower rate).
I wouldn't bother though. If you care even slightly about damper and airspring performance, the McLeod is on a different level entirely. Compare it like a Rockshox XC30 fork vs Lyrik RCT3 or Fox 32 Evolution vs 36 GRIP2...


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

I see.

I think I will order the McLeod. Just searching for the right shop now.
Rose bikes are not saying as well and I asked twice... 

By the way, is there a guide of how to service the nitrogen on the RP23?
I will use air just to see if there is it makes a difference. Could the propedal 
problem be caused by something else?

Thanks.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

I bought from Starbike earlier this year and manufacture date was Dec 2018.


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

Just checked and they do not have the 165mm..
Is the one you've received with the solid red logo, or with the red outline?


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

I bought mine off Amazon which was supplied through Tree Fork Bikes in Apr 2019. It was a Dec 2018 build. There are 5 vendors on Amazon with 6.5 x 1.5 shocks. I doubt you'll find any vendor selling older builds. If you do order it through Amazon and it's not the build you want you can just send it back.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Grey stickers are gone.


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

kan3 said:


> I bought mine off Amazon which was supplied through Tree Fork Bikes in Apr 2019. It was a Dec 2018 build. There are 5 vendors on Amazon with 6.5 x 1.5 shocks. I doubt you'll find any vendor selling older builds. If you do order it through Amazon and it's not the build you want you can just send it back.


Ok, I think I will place the order.
Thanks.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

I think there is something going on with my mcleod. Best way to describe it is that it feels like geting hang on the rocks or roots on downhills, while before it would absorb them. The action feels normal when i just sit and bounce on the bike, feels fine like it did before, but during ride it somehow feels off. All my settings and pressure did not channge. Any idea?
Thanks


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

brankulo said:


> I think there is something going on with my mcleod. Best way to describe it is that it feels like geting hang on the rocks or roots on downhills, while before it would absorb them. The action feels normal when i just sit and bounce on the bike, feels fine like it did before, but during ride it somehow feels off. All my settings and pressure did not channge. Any idea?
> Thanks


Reset the negative air chamber by removing and reinstalling the air can.
While it's already open it can't hurt to regrease the seals and shaft as well .


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

And if that doesn't help, make sure it's not your dérailleur clutch getting stiff from no lube, mine makes my bike hang up on things after a while with no service.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Mac1987 said:


> Reset the negative air chamber by removing and reinstalling the air can.
> While it's already open it can't hurt to regrease the seals and shaft as well .


Thanks, i will reset neg chamber. How often is the reset required though? It has barely been a month since the last time i did it.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

piciu256 said:


> And if that doesn't help, make sure it's not your dérailleur clutch getting stiff from no lube, mine makes my bike hang up on things after a while with no service.


How do i lube, or check if it needs lubing? My sram der has a sealed clutch i believe


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just see if it feels notchy or works smoothly, if it's notchy, your cluctch is toast. Dunno if you can service the Sram ones (I know that the older ones could be serviced)


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

piciu256 said:


> And if that doesn't help, make sure it's not your dérailleur clutch getting stiff from no lube, mine makes my bike hang up on things after a while with no service.





piciu256 said:


> Just see if it feels notchy or works smoothly, if it's notchy, your cluctch is toast. Dunno if you can service the Sram ones (I know that the older ones could be serviced)


Gotcha. It does feel smooth. I just got it in september so would expect it to work fine still.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

brankulo said:


> Thanks, i will reset neg chamber. How often is the reset required though? It has barely been a month since the last time i did it.


It shouldn't be that often if the seals are still good. I'm about to do it after a couple of months, including a week long trip to Leogang and a visit to Winterberg bike park. The shock is stil working fine, but I like to be ahead of performance deterioration.


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## tdaniel93 (Mar 29, 2019)

Received my McLeod a few weeks ago but wasn't able to get it apart to add the spacer to adjust the stroke until last night.

After getting the McLeod on and test riding I can't help but notice how noisy it is when the IPA is in settings 2-4. Is this normal and it's just oil passing through the shim stacks or is it possible I have air in the damper? I did the bleed myself per the instructions and I'm inclined to believe if it were air in the damper that I would hear it in all IPA positions. Can't imagine the shaft speed is high enough in my parking lot test to cause cavitation but I'm not expert.

It also makes this noise both with and without a pressurized air can.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

I hear some damper noise in the higher IPA settings, but it is less noticeable than the sound of the foam ring going up and down on the shaft. However, it is still noticeable, but only if I pay attention to it. During a ride, I barely notice it.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Converted mine to remote adjust with an XTR 9000 front shifter. After measuring the rotation of the IPA, it appears the first position goes to 60 degrees and the second to 90 degrees. This is perfect because I usually ride on Setting 3. Two hits on the release to get back to Open for a descent. Very nice.


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## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

@ibis315
I sell the complete tuning so i can't post all the details.
It wouldnt help you either. I have special masks for making the dimple as every damper size has its own unique position. The trick ist to make the dimple as small as possible. The equalisation on my models will only happen if yout rest a moment on the right position. So there is no noticeable point of no resistance as you move through the travel while biking.

The resulting spring curves are better than on any other air shock form the big manufacturers. No customer changed back to their old damper (DVO Topaz, RS Super DELUXE, RS Monarch+, ....). Its also very customizable, i did ones for Liteville 301, Nicolai ion 16, banshe prime, banshee rune, Conway wme, mde damper .......

Im looking forward to get an mara in my hands. Good thing there you wont have to buy an extra KingCan.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Okay, I pulled apart the damper, changed some shims, put it back together. Holds pressure, IPA lever works, but when I put it on IPA 4, it's a loud swooshing sound. Like air being pushed out. Nothing on ipa1, 2, 3. Just 4. Although on 3 I hear something, it's not a hiss/swoosh like on ipa4.

Any ideas? Have to pull it apart and redo?

Also, for those who have the RWC needle bearings, what do you guys do to protect the needles when servicing? I lost the original clear plug thing


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jdang307 said:


> Okay, I pulled apart the damper, changed some shims, put it back together. Holds pressure, IPA lever works, but when I put it on IPA 4, it's a loud swooshing sound. Like air being pushed out. Nothing on ipa1, 2, 3. Just 4. Although on 3 I hear something, it's not a hiss/swoosh like on ipa4.
> 
> Any ideas? Have to pull it apart and redo?
> 
> Also, for those who have the RWC needle bearings, what do you guys do to protect the needles when servicing? I lost the original clear plug thing


It's possible you crimped some shims so they aren't sitting flat on the piston any more.

It's also possible your new tune is just a noisey one.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

...


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

wanted to follow up on the issue below i had/have with my mcleod.

_"I think there is something going on with my mcleod. Best way to describe it is that it feels like geting hang on the rocks or roots on downhills, while before it would absorb them. The action feels normal when i just sit and bounce on the bike, feels fine like it did before, but during ride it somehow feels off. All my settings and pressure did not change. Any idea?
Thanks"_

as suggested i did neg chamber reset and it did indeed fixed the issue. however already after i was finishing first ride after fix, i already started feeling that it is returning to the state where it hangs up on the rocks. second ride was basically as it felt before neg chamber reset. so seems like something going on with neg chamber? any idea? the shock is pretty much new, just 2 months of riding on it. i did reset neg chamber the day i got it, and lubed everything. it was fine for over month before the issue started.

thanks


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

Are you on the standard or King can? I noticed the same issue when I moved over to the King can. The standard can didn't do this. Wondering if the ratio of pos-to-neg chamber size is creating an imbalance in spring force.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

ibis315 said:


> Are you on the standard or King can? I noticed the same issue when I moved over to the King can. The standard can didn't do this. Wondering if the ratio of pos-to-neg chamber size is creating an imbalance in spring force.


standard can


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

brankulo said:


> standard can


just saw your thread in ibis section. what you describe sounds like the issue i had/have with my mcleod. also getting this sensation of rear hanging on the rocks, feeling harsh, hard tail like on the descends. when i look at the shock i see it is using its travel, it just feels odd. i have not been able to get any response from manitou, and you are actually the first one that is experiencing something similar. i ended up switching back to my stock fox dps and the sensation went away, so i am pretty sure it is mcleod causing this. it is bummer because when it worked, it was amazing and better than fox. i also tried reseting neg chamber and it helped for a while, but the last few times i did the reset it would not help anymore. it is my backup shock for now. i have the tool on order and will open it up and rebuild to see if it helps anything, if not i am not really sure how to help.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Any recent rumblings of trunnion or 165x42.5 or 165x45? Would love to run this shock in a bike at 165x45 or 165x42.5. From what I've read I like the Mcleod over the Fox options. running 168x38 will take out a huge chunk of rear travel. 

Or is there a way to cobble parts from 2 shocks together along with some offset bushings to make a 165x45'ish (damper body X, can Y, shaft assembly Z) ? or maybe a 190x50 shock with 25mm spacer and a custom length shaft (or spacer on the end of the shaft plunger) in the shaft assembly? I suppose if there was, then Manitou would offer that size but it never hurts to ask.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

My McLeod really needs to be serviced. Where can one in North America send their shock in to get an IFP recharge and new o-rings?
I'd also be open to a revalve of the dampers....


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

yogiprophet said:


> My McLeod really needs to be serviced. Where can one in North America send their shock in to get an IFP recharge and new o-rings?
> I'd also be open to a revalve of the dampers....


please report when you find someone. i have not been able to. i have an issue with the shock and would like to talk about it with someone, i am not able to get any info from manitou. btw, with ifp tool, it is pretty easy to do maintenance you need at home, even to tune, see this thread:


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Check out Blue Liquid Labs in New Mexico. Oliver is a machinist by trade but can figure out most mechanical things and likes to learn.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> My McLeod really needs to be serviced. Where can one in North America send their shock in to get an IFP recharge and new o-rings?
> I'd also be open to a revalve of the dampers....


Smithtech in Canada. Not sure about the USA.

Most places seem scared of Manitou stuff. Which is weird because they've got home rebuild instructions out.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Smithtech in Canada. Not sure about the USA.
> 
> Most places seem scared of Manitou stuff. Which is weird because they've got home rebuild instructions out.


Maybe they don't like it because they only know Fox and Rockshox and have higher margins for those brands? I know trying to find someone to service X-Fusion, Suntour, DVO and other brands is just as difficult here in the Netherlands. Only the knowledgeable enthusiasts seem to know anything about forks that aren't Fox or Rockshox. I would count Smithtech and Shockcraft amongst those enthusiasts' shops. Unfortunately, there aren't many of those jewels around and if you live in the wrong place, it can be very hard to find one.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Dirtlabs, Shockspital, Manticore, and TrailWerks all list Manitou in what they service... I'm sure there are many others...

Once you call and talk to them let us know what they say about their servicing of Manitou. Guess since most on here do self-service and talk to the Manitou help desk, not much knowledge on service shops.




yogiprophet said:


> My McLeod really needs to be serviced. Where can one in North America send their shock in to get an IFP recharge and new o-rings?





yogiprophet said:


> I'd also be open to a revalve of the dampers....


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Heist30 said:


> Dirtlabs, Shockspital, Manticore, and TrailWerks all list Manitou in what they service... I'm sure there are many others...


Anyone can list it. It's whether they actually do it that matters.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

@brankulo
update on my mcleod issue hanging up on rocks and stuff. i think i finally figured out what was wrong. all this time i was under impression i was running 5/8 turn of rebound where in fact i was runing 1/8 turn (didnt notice little dot on the adjuster) so now that i dialed the rebound back to 1/8 turn it did feel great again today, didnt ride any super chunky section but on what i rode today it felt great again. maybe i will try no rebound next time. not sure why i am at the end of the spectrum but this is where the shock feels right to me.


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## hmorsi (May 14, 2008)

Has anyone successfully done a DIY damper service on the Mcleod without Manitou's bleed tool? The IPA modes on mine don't make much of a discernible difference anymore and there is a squishing noise when shock is compressed. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## hmorsi (May 14, 2008)

Can anyone share DIY bleed instructions for the damper? 

I just ordered the 3-in-1 tool and hoping it should be a straightforward process to bleed the damper. I looked for that bleed tool online but cannot find anywhere that stocks them.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

There is a guide on Hayes yt channel, you could probably even make an adapter and vacuum bleed it using a syringe through the bleed port.


----------



## hmorsi (May 14, 2008)

piciu256 said:


> There is a guide on Hayes yt channel, you could probably even make an adapter and vacuum bleed it using a syringe through the bleed port.


Thanks, yes I did watch the 3-part video on Hayes' YouTube channel. I am just consulting the experienced suspension gurus in this thread for a tried and true method that doesn't use the bleed tool.


----------



## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

I did a bleed without any bleed tool. Only special tool was the 3-1. Followed their video exactly


----------



## olibluegoat (Jul 19, 2011)

Trying to decide between the McLeod or a Cane Creek DB Air IL for my new Ibis Ripley V4. Anyone had any experince with both of these. And im talking about the newer Air IL not the old one that had major issues.


----------



## olibluegoat (Jul 19, 2011)

Trying to decide between the McLeod or a Cane Creek DB Air IL for my new Ibis Ripley V4. Anyone had any experince with both of these. And im talking about the newer Air IL not the old one that had major issues.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

olibluegoat said:


> Trying to decide between the McLeod or a Cane Creek DB Air IL for my new Ibis Ripley V4. Anyone had any experince with both of these. And im talking about the newer Air IL not the old one that had major issues.


Dont have ccil, but its hard to beat value of mcleod. For me, big plus was that it is easy to rebuild and tune, something you will have hard time with cc at home. Cc is heavier and more conplicated, and for what bike ripley v4 is, i feel mcleod is more than enogh of a shock. It is noticeable improvement over dps that came stock on my ripley.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I ditched my DPX2 for a McLeod on my Ripmo. It works really well with the DW Link suspension. I could never get the DPX2 dialed in the way I thought it should be. The Fox Factory fork has been great. I do not know enough about the CC, but I can say the McLeod works really well and it is simple to set up.


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## olibluegoat (Jul 19, 2011)

Which size McLeod fits the v4 ripley. Does it fit just using the fox hardware


----------



## olibluegoat (Jul 19, 2011)

What size McLeod fits the v4 ripley. Can you just use the fox hardwear ?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The 190 x 45 metric will fit. It uses the same hardware as the Fox.


----------



## weeblebiker (Oct 15, 2018)

can a 7.875 x 2.00 shock be converted to a 7.875 x 2.25? 
seems like the only difference would be a spacer under the bottom out bumper, but that's a guess.
I've been running a 7.875 x 2.00 mcleod on my 07 stumpy and it's been great. the frame would handle an extra .25" of stroke which would better match the mattoc travel that should be going on soon.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I have a 7.875 x 2 and 2.25. The shock body on the 2.25 is shorter, allowing the extra travel. You could shorten the 2.25 to a 2.0 with a travel reducer, but not lengthen the 2.0 When I measured the 2.0 there is 2 and an eighth of shaft exposed. The 2.25 has 2 and five eighths. 

For the record, this is much easier when using the metric system. I might translate the entry on the next edit.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

weeblebiker said:


> can a 7.875 x 2.00 shock be converted to a 7.875 x 2.25?
> seems like the only difference would be a spacer under the bottom out bumper, but that's a guess.
> I've been running a 7.875 x 2.00 mcleod on my 07 stumpy and it's been great. the frame would handle an extra .25" of stroke which would better match the mattoc travel that should be going on soon.





Prophet Julio said:


> I have a 7.875 x 2 and 2.25. The shock body on the 2.25 is shorter, allowing the extra travel. You could shorten the 2.25 to a 2.0 with a travel reducer, but not lengthen the 2.0 When I measured the 2.0 there is 2 and an eighth of shaft exposed. The 2.25 has 2 and five eighths.
> 
> For the record, this is much easier when using the metric system. I might translate the entry on the next edit.


The 200x50mm shock is a 190x50mm shock with a longer damper body installed. It isn't a travel reduced 200x56mm.

It's the opposite way most brands handle it.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Dougal said:


> The 200x50mm shock is a 190x50mm shock with a longer damper body installed. It isn't a travel reduced 200x56mm.
> 
> It's the opposite way most brands handle it.


And the 210mm x 55mm on my Ripmo is different than the others! It has top out spacers, and it looks like the short body of the 200mm x 56mm would fit perfectly on the 210mm x 55mm without any top out spacers / physical end.


----------



## balicsteto (Apr 30, 2017)

hi there, 
I might have missed in the earlier replies, but anyone could measure the widest diameter of the mclouds air can in millimeters?
thanks


----------



## balicsteto (Apr 30, 2017)

i mean mcleod


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

Today I tried the new McLeod and I am impressed.
It works really nice and its much better than the Fox RP23 I had on 
the bike.

I cannot find anywhere though, the maximum PSI it can take.
I usually ride downhill sessions and a lot of long distances on tarmac on
which I use the lockout feature which by the way works a treat!
Feels like a hardtail with fat tires. Perfect.

The shock arrived at 80psi and I am now running it at 135psi.
How high can I go? 

Can I leave the lockout engaged for long periods of time or will it
damage in any way the shock?

Thanks.

(it was a direct replacement for the Fox RP23. No need for any other hardware)


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## Steinello (Jul 10, 2018)

I think you can´t find an information written in the manuals for the maximum pressure.
... the values I found varies between 230 PSI and 290 PSI.
... therefore you should have no problems ;-)


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

Great, I only need 150psi for my weight.
Thanks!


----------



## balicsteto (Apr 30, 2017)

@hgg2k could you please measure the outer largest diameter in millimeters of the McLeod's air can?

thanks


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

balicsteto said:


> @hgg2k could you please measure the outer largest diameter in millimeters of the McLeod's air can?
> 
> thanks


Standard can is 43mm body. Eyelet is 48mm

King can is 49mm


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## balicsteto (Apr 30, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> Standard can is 45mm body. Eyelet is 48mm
> 
> King can is 49mm


Thank you, so, the regular can is 48 mm at its top section. interesting, the web site says the OD of the can is 43 mm, most likely at the middle section of the can. i have a frame with a tight fit for the shock at the top tube, thus it is hard to adopt any diameter size of a shock.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

balicsteto said:


> Thank you, so, the regular can is 48 mm at its top section. interesting, the web site says the OD of the can is 43 mm, most likely at the middle section of the can. i have a frame with a tight fit for the shock at the top tube, thus it is hard to adopt any diameter size of a shock.


Sorry, cell phone typo and I didn't double check. 43mm for the standard can is correct. If you want to get technical, the bulge for the eyelet is 47.6mm. OD on the king can is 48.6 from the additional outer sleeve

I will amend my previous boost to avoid confusion


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## balicsteto (Apr 30, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> Sorry, cell phone typo and I didn't double check. 43mm for the standard can is correct. If you want to get technical, the bulge for the eyelet is 47.6mm. OD on the king can is 48.6 from the additional outer sleeve
> 
> I will amend my previous boost to avoid confusion


Great info, thank you. Sadly, the 47.6 is too much to fit.


----------



## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

balicsteto said:


> @hgg2k could you please measure the outer largest diameter in millimeters of the McLeod's air can?
> 
> thanks


It is 48mm.


----------



## balicsteto (Apr 30, 2017)

hgg2k said:


> It is 48mm.


thanks


----------



## fla350tt (Aug 11, 2011)

I have had my Mcleod for about 6 months now and it loses air pressure with in a week. Is this normal? my fox shocks hardly ever lost air.


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

fla350tt said:


> I have had my Mcleod for about 6 months now and it loses air pressure with in a week. Is this normal? my fox shocks hardly ever lost air.


Not normal. Sounds like it needs a rebuild.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

fla350tt said:


> I have had my Mcleod for about 6 months now and it loses air pressure with in a week. Is this normal? my fox shocks hardly ever lost air.


Take it off and dunk it in water to see where the air is leaking from. Its not normal to leak air and there are only a couple places it can leak from but you need figure out which one is leaking to determine the fix


----------



## fla350tt (Aug 11, 2011)

mullen119 said:


> Take it off and dunk it in water to see where the air is leaking from. Its not normal to leak air and there are only a couple places it can leak from but you need figure out which one is leaking to determine the fix


I tried water dunk, but no bubbles.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

fla350tt said:


> I tried water dunk, but no bubbles.


Pump it up to like 200psi first. Make sure the cap is off the valve


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

fla350tt said:


> I have had my Mcleod for about 6 months now and it loses air pressure with in a week. Is this normal? my fox shocks hardly ever lost air.


Take air can off (good time to reset negative air chamber) and put silicone grease on can threads and on air can rubber seal. All three Mcleods I had leaked from can seal and silicone grease will fix.


----------



## Karluz (Jan 1, 2020)

Hi everyone and happy new year.
After reading all the great things you guys say about the McLeod I decided to grab a second hand one and check it myself.
It's on its way at the moment so I have no idea what shimstack it comes with. 
It will replace the original 200x57 Monarch R Debonair on my 140mm travel Vitus Mythique VRX.
I played around with the Monarch, tried different pressures but can't seem to get the shock to feel right. It feels harsh on roots and rock gardens and seems to wobble a bit too much when I pedal up the trails.

My questions for the McLeod experts are:
- do you think the McLeod will suit my frame?








- upgrading to a king can would be a good idea? (I'd would think that's the case given the progressive nature of my frame, but wanna make sure)

For the record I weight around 75kg and ride mainly agressive natural trails and single track. No bike parks or lots of jumping.

Thanks


----------



## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

I think it will suit your frame just fine. A King Can is usually better with a progressive frame, but why not try the standard can first and spend money on a King Can if you find the standard can too progressive?


----------



## neb (Aug 12, 2008)

I'm on a progressive frame (cotic rocket) and I'm thinking about going back the standard can from the mid setting on the king can. I have about 25% sag and I'm bottoming easier than I'd like.


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Karluz said:


> Hi everyone and happy new year.
> After reading all the great things you guys say about the McLeod I decided to grab a second hand one and check it myself.
> It's on its way at the moment so I have no idea what shimstack it comes with.
> It will replace the original 200x57 Monarch R Debonair on my 140mm travel Vitus Mythique VRX.
> ...


Having had 3 Mcloeds on 3 different bikes, you are probably going to want the King Can set at half volume. Setting sag between 25% and 30%, this will probably give you the best overall ride (small bump performance and best mid/pedal support).

But you can try the standard can first, but probably have hard time getting all the travel without hitting big jumps.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

arnea said:


> I see. I hope the replacement bushings with larger wall thickness (https://www.bike24.de/1.php?content=8;product=184701;menu=1000,2,119;pgc[18008][18012]=1) are not the default ones and will solve the problem.
> 
> Edit: looks like this is the "standard" bushing with part number 213-01-263 that is most likely included with the kit. I did not find the part number for other bushing with smaller diameters. Not sure if that would solve the problem.


This might have been solved but does this help the hardware issue?:

https://www.fanatikbike.com/product...MIur7G3pvr5gIVSdbACh0IGQwwEAQYAiABEgLFNfD_BwE

In the description they state:

Replacement polyurethane DU bushings for all Fox rear shocks, 2013 and later. For 2013 and earlier rear shocks, use the metal DU bushing.

Fox offers 2 sizes of these bushing to compensate for a difference in rear shock tolerances.

.5925 OD / .0498 ID - use these bushings if your system feels too loose

.598 OD / .0501 ID - use these bushings if your system feels too tight

I recently replaced the Fox 5-piece system on my Mcleod and one eyelet is too loose. I am on my fourth set and the first three just worked fine. Might buy a new fox bushing from above (the 0.5925 OD / 0.0498 ID) and see how it works.


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Vespasianus said:


> Fox offers 2 sizes of these bushing to compensate for a difference in rear shock tolerances....
> 
> .5925 OD / .0498 ID - use these bushings if your system feels too loose
> 
> ...


wouldn't that make things even more loose? seems both outer diameter as well as thickness are both lower than the standard igus bushings?

Oren


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> wouldn't that make things even more loose? seems both outer diameter as well as thickness are both lower than the standard igus bushings?
> 
> Oren


Fox pins are oversize by about 0.1mm.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

I don't know which one comes with the full fox 5 piece kit (https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Mounting...rds=Fox+shock+bushings&qid=1578184521&sr=8-32).

The smaller inside diameter of the top bushing (.5925 OD / .0498 ID) should make the pin feel tighter.

What is interesting is that I have both 6 mm and 8 mm pins. The 8mm pins fit perfectly in every shock. The 6mm pins vary. I almost believe the variation is in the pins not the bushings.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Vespasianus said:


> I don't know which one comes with the full fox 5 piece kit (https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Mounting...rds=Fox+shock+bushings&qid=1578184521&sr=8-32).
> 
> The smaller inside diameter of the top bushing (.5925 OD / .0498 ID) should make the pin feel tighter.
> 
> What is interesting is that I have both 6 mm and 8 mm pins. The 8mm pins fit perfectly in every shock. The 6mm pins vary. I almost believe the variation is in the pins not the bushings.


Second number (0.0498", 1.26mm) seems like the bushing thickness rather than bore diameter.
So I believe lower number -> less tight.

Am I mis understanding this?

Oren

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

OrenPerets said:


> Second number (0.0498", 1.26mm) seems like the bushing thickness rather than bore diameter.
> So I believe lower number -> less tight.
> 
> Am I mis understanding this?
> ...


I took it to mean if the pin was consistent, the lower ID number (I take ID to mean inside diameter) would lead to a tighter fight. That is why, in their description they say:

Fox offers 2 sizes of these bushing to compensate for a difference in rear shock tolerances.

.5925 OD / .0498 ID - use these bushings if your system feels too loose

.598 OD / .0501 ID - use these bushings if your system feels too tight


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Vespasianus said:


> What is interesting is that I have both 6 mm and 8 mm pins. The 8mm pins fit perfectly in every shock. The 6mm pins vary. I almost believe the variation is in the pins not the bushings.


8mm ID aluminium pins can be crushed by the bolts through them. This swells their diameter as it slightly shrinks the length (volume is conserved).

6mm ID aluminium pins don't do that unless you've had king kong tightening up your pivot bolts.


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

I have bought the McLeod 2 position remote and while the shock is
amazing, the remote is a joke. 2 positions for a 4 position shock 
which actually works and the handlebar mount is not even a split
design, forcing you to remove everything else in order to install it.

Anyway, I will keep the hardware that mounts on the shock and
I am thinking of buying the Cane Creek Remote which by the 
looks of it, it offers full travel without any fixed positions.



Do you think that it will work with the McLeod?
I am worried about the available travel of the remote. because if it is
shorter it will not be able to engage the fully locked position.
Any other suggestions?
Thanks.


----------



## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Someone tried it:
https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mcleod-rear-shock-956836-13.html#post14384485


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

Not enough friction. Hmmm.
Are any other solutions? What about the Fox CTD 3 position remote?


----------



## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

hgg2k said:


> Not enough friction. Hmmm.
> Are any other solutions? What about the Fox CTD 3 position remote?


Someone made a milo a 3 or 4 position remote if I remember correctly. Pretty sure they had a youtube video or video clip in their post. I can't find it at the moment. Not sure if it was in this thread and my google searching is coming up empty. I went pretty far down the rabbit hole one time looking for 3 or 4 position remotes for the mcleod.

Edit - found the youtube clip. Not sure how I got there the first time or how he did it. I want to say he took it apart and added another notch.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

I use the Fox 3-position remote with the Manitou Mcleod shock. Works great. Obviously you only get 3 positions but for me it covers the full range.


----------



## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

I used a triple position DT Swiss lock out and it worked well. Did not quite give the full range but was probably 80% of the range.

on another note the fox bushings fixed the worn out Manitou bushings










Evolution Training Cycles


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

> Edit - found the youtube clip. Not sure how I got there the first time or how he did it. I want to say he took it apart and added another notch.


I've seen this video as well, but he does not show how the modification
was made.

Anyway I think I will go for the Fox CDT 3 position remote.
Thanks guys!


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

neb said:


> I'm on a progressive frame (cotic rocket) and I'm thinking about going back the standard can from the mid setting on the king can. I have about 25% sag and I'm bottoming easier than I'd like.


You can still fill the volume of the half outer can with further rubber bands and clip a fox or rs volume spacer in the inner can


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

JillRide45 said:


> I use the Fox 3-position remote with the Manitou Mcleod shock. Works great. Obviously you only get 3 positions but for me it covers the full range.


A wireless remote lockout would be sweet! Surprised that shock mfg have not come out with or offered something like this. Offer it as a add-on that you could mount to the shock.

Only one that has something out like this is Magura.


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## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

The technological limit of Manitou is 2 positions.
I think you might be asking for too much! lol


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

hgg2k said:


> The technological limit of Manitou is 2 positions.
> I think you might be asking for too much! lol


I have been wanting to put a remote on here for a while.

The mod the guy did in YouTube vid probably fairly easy to do. Just take the throw lever apart and bet you can just add another catch notch for middle postilion.

Think I will pick one up and give it a try.


----------



## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

If you do it successfully please post some photos!


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

hgg2k said:


> If you do it successfully please post some photos!


Did some research and looks like someone used a "microSHIFT Thumb Shifter" for the remote. Looks like a nice clean solution. Like that its up out of the way, has adjustable position, should be easy to engage and works in either index or friction mode.

Just ordered the Mcleod remote and this 9 speed microSHIFTer. Should make for a nice easy to use remote lockout system.






https://www.amazon.com/Microshift-Shifter-9-Speed-Advent-Compatible/dp/B07Z5GKF4C?ref_=ast_bbp_dp


----------



## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

I know, I've seen these as well. They might work fine but they will
make your bike look 10 years older. 

Do you know the travel length of the microshifter? 
McLeod needs 18mm.


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

hgg2k said:


> I know, I've seen these as well. They might work fine but they will
> make your bike look 10 years older.
> 
> Do you know the travel length of the microshifter?
> McLeod needs 18mm.


Could care less what it looks like, I am after easy of use and functionality.

Think the cable pull on the microshift/9 speed shifters is like 3 to 4 mm on each index, so that is like the 30mm range with 9 indexes. So should give at least 3 maybe 4 settings in index mode.

Find out next week.


----------



## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

I don't mind either. 30mm is quite a big difference. 
Maybe you have to be careful when reaching full lockout position.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

In2falling said:


> Did some research and looks like someone used a "microSHIFT Thumb Shifter" for the remote. Looks like a nice clean solution. Like that its up out of the way, has adjustable position, should be easy to engage and works in either index or friction mode.
> 
> Just ordered the Mcleod remote and this 9 speed microSHIFTer. Should make for a nice easy to use remote lockout system.
> 
> ...


I used the microshift thumbie for the remote, it works well. Mine is a 10 speed variant. I use it in friction (non-index) mode. Works well with my fox DPS too.


----------



## Karluz (Jan 1, 2020)

Hi. I just received my second hand McLeod and installed it on my bike.
It’s apparently in very good shape.
It came with a fox remote installed which I won’t be using so I took it off right away.
One thing I noticed is that the IPA lever detents are almost indistinguishable.
When closing it from open I can feel the first detent slightly but the other detents are just inexistent. 
Is there something that can be done to make them more evident?
Could it be related to the shock being used with the remote?

Thanks


----------



## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

There should be a small ball bearing inside the IPA lever.
When you install a remote, you remove the small ball bearing.


----------



## Karluz (Jan 1, 2020)

Oh, makes sense.
F£#& it, I’ll use it like this. Infinite adjustability!
Thanks :thumbsup:


----------



## hgg2k (Feb 11, 2011)

You're welcome.
If you are throwing away the remote... I am interested !


----------



## Karluz (Jan 1, 2020)

I just noticed my shock has the following serial number: MC000537
Is there by any chance someone who knows if this corresponds to a recent batch with updated IFP piston?
Is there a way to know for sure without taking everything apart?

I would ask Manitou directly, but I keep getting forwarded to the European customer care team.
And as I’m finding out the customer care here seems to be very far from the excellent one that appears to exist in the US.
Several weeks after raising a ticket for something else I still haven’t received any response...


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Karluz said:


> I just noticed my shock has the following serial number: MC000537
> Is there by any chance someone who knows if this corresponds to a recent batch with updated IFP piston?
> Is there a way to know for sure without taking everything apart?
> 
> ...


There is a small set screw at the top of the IPA lever near the eyelet. It puts pressure on a spring and detent ball the controls the feel of the clicks. Turn this screw in a little and each click will be more noticeable









Your serial number shows its a early model, likely 2014-15
Do you have the original box it came in? If you do, look for a green dot on the box. This would indicate it has been updated. Only other way to know would be a rebuild. I wouldnt worry about it too much unless it bottoms early with a loud thunk.


----------



## Karluz (Jan 1, 2020)

Thanks for the suggestion Mullen119 but it didn’t make any difference.
Maybe it’s really lacking the detent ball...
Also I just noticed the IPA lever has a slight fore aft movement. 
Don’t know if it’s supposed to be like this. 
As for the original box I didn’t get it so I don’t know if it had the green dot or not.
Well...
I’ll ride it as is, try to tune it The best I can and hope everything works as it’s supposed to.
If not, I’ll do a complete rebuild and check everything inside. :thumbsup:


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Microshift Thumbie installed! This thing works great, light action and very easy/quick too get to and engage.

Have it in index mode and the 9 speed Advent one I bought has a 3.4mm pull per index which gives me 5 setting/clicks.

Two clicks gets to like IPA setting 1, three/four about IPA setting 2 and 5 is fully closed.

The Microshift 10 and 11 speeds will have 3mm pull.
















Fully open








Fully closed


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I couldn't just give up, as soon as I thought of using the king can as a large negative chamber- it kept bugging me  Thanks to my University I have access to a lathe so I made myself a valve, the basis for my mod is a 200x57mm McLeod, shortened 7mm for the ability of passing air to one half of the king can, not only the chamber is increased with the king can volume, but also with the larger part of the main chamber used for negative air. At this point I don't know how it works, waiting for the die for cutting external Schrader threads to arrive so I can do some proper testing, at the moment I confirmed that it's holding air at 300psi and the valve itself is leaking very slowly (I didn't quite meet the desired spec for the sealing surface- the drill was wandering a bit, had to resort to Teflon tape) but that doesn't really hurt anything as a sealed cap should keep any major amount of air from escaping.
The outside is in rough shape, still need to cut off the holding piece and sand it a bit for smoother finish, just couldn't wait to test if epoxy would actually hold strong enough for me to not just rip it off by accident.








PS. does anyone know of any source of McLeod decals here in EU? I accidentally destroyed the one I got with the king can, and I prefer my shock not to be naked.


----------



## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Do you have a link to the shifter?



In2falling said:


> Microshift Thumbie installed! This thing works great, light action and very easy/quick too get to and engage.
> 
> Have it in index mode and the 9 speed Advent one I bought has a 3.4mm pull per index which gives me 5 setting/clicks.
> 
> ...


----------



## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

piciu256 said:


> PS. does anyone know of any source of McLeod decals here in EU? I accidentally destroyed the one I got with the king can, and I prefer my shock not to be naked.


I didn't like the decal so I used an M from Manitou fork decals.


----------



## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

nashwillis said:


> Do you have a link to the shifter?


https://www.amazon.com/Microshift-Shifter-9-Speed-Advent-Compatible/dp/B07Z5GKF4C?ref

https://www.microshift.com/en/product-category/mountain/mtb-shifters/


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Did you consider using a twist shifter? That might be ideal for me.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

piciu256 said:


> PS. does anyone know of any source of McLeod decals here in EU? I accidentally destroyed the one I got with the king can, and I prefer my shock not to be naked.


Slik Graphics can do decals for the McLeod King Can. I was quoted £10 (+ shipping) for non-chrome colors. I obtained the graphics file from Manitou and emailed to Slik Graphics for the quote.

Shoot me a PM if you want the graphics file.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kartracer said:


> Slik Graphics can do decals for the McLeod King Can. I was quoted £10 (+ shipping) for non-chrome colors. I obtained the graphics file from Manitou and emailed to Slik Graphics for the quote.
> 
> Shoot me a PM if you want the graphics file.


There are different graphics for the std can vs King-Can. Bigger diameter on the King-Can so the sticker is wider. Worth checking.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> There are different graphics for the std can vs King-Can. Bigger diameter on the King-Can so the sticker is wider. Worth checking.


Yep ... I actually have the files for King Cans and standard cans also in the different heights for the different size shocks/cans.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

irrelevant


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

For those who may need one, the Mcleod 3 in 1 IFP tool has been added to the Hayes store.

https://shop.hayesperformance.com/products/rear-shock-ifp-4-in-1-tool?_pos=4&_sid=65347b2c3&_ss=r


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Finally I was able to connect a pump to this abomination. Results are this:
Same 30% sag at 110psi as I had before at 90psi (was expecting more of a difference really)
Less end stroke support (I'm able to use full travel) than previously @80psi (was running this, around 40% sag, not ideal but allowed to use most of the travel)
More mid stroke support (judged by the increase in pressure and a bit more poppy feeling)
Greatly decreased resale value ?
All things compared to starting point of 200x57 stock air can shock shortened with volume reducer to 190x51, sag measured at seated position.
Some photos:


ps. does anyone have any idea if 4 1mm holes have a possibility to restrict air from at higher shaft speeds? Just curious if my setup could potentially provide some sort of air damping, highly unlikely given the chamber volume, but still


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

I've had 2 McLeods, the first one was replaced within a month under warranty for the knock on full open mode and when closed it still had significant travel. The replacement also has the knocks but on both settings 1 and 2. It's on a '19 process 134, I have the sag at 22% with 140psi and rebound only 1/4 open from closed (any more than that and it's a Pogo stick) I weigh 150lbs geared up and I reset the neg chamber regularly. I find I have to run it on setting 2 in to keep it from bottoming out too much, I use full travel easily on NEPA trails, I'm a fairly aggressive rider. It's a 190x50. If I get the IFP tool should I increase the pressure to 400 or change the shims?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

excesspeople said:


> I've had 2 McLeods, the first one was replaced within a month under warranty for the knock on full open mode and when closed it still had significant travel. The replacement also has the knocks but on both settings 1 and 2. It's on a '19 process 134, I have the sag at 22% with 140psi and rebound only 1/4 open from closed (any more than that and it's a Pogo stick) I weigh 150lbs geared up and I reset the neg chamber regularly. I find I have to run it on setting 2 in to keep it from bottoming out too much, I use full travel easily on NEPA trails, I'm a fairly aggressive rider. It's a 190x50. If I get the IFP tool should I increase the pressure to 400 or change the shims?


You need an updated rebound shim stack and a small change to the compression stack.

It also sounds like you need a little more progression in the spring, though updating the compression tune may help some with the bottoming.

There is a small trick you can do to stop the knocking (its actually shims slamming closed. It makes assembly of the damper a little more difficult though. I have tested it as a long term fix yet ( winter, not enough opportunity to put hours on it)


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

mullen119 said:


> You need an updated rebound shim stack and a small change to the compression stack.
> 
> It also sounds like you need a little more progression in the spring, though updating the compression tune may help some with the bottoming.
> 
> There is a small trick you can do to stop the knocking (its actually shims slamming closed. It makes assembly of the damper a little more difficult though. I have tested it as a long term fix yet ( winter, not enough opportunity to put hours on it)


The replacement shock they sent me was made in 2019, wouldn't it already have the updated shims?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

excesspeople said:


> The replacement shock they sent me was made in 2019, wouldn't it already have the updated shims?


I don't believe they made the large changes in the stacks like was talked about, just small updates to valving and other areas. Larger changes may happen in the near future.

I made a thread on tuning the Mcleod, and will be more than happy to point you in the right direction if you have questions.


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

mullen119 said:


> I don't believe they made the large changes in the stacks like was talked about, just small updates to valving and other areas. Larger changes may happen in the near future.
> 
> I made a thread on tuning the Mcleod, and will be more than happy to point you in the right direction if you have questions.


Right on, thanks. I've been reading your threads, great info. My IFP tool should be here next week. Emailed tech support about possibly getting some rebound shims, waiting to hear back.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Just bought a new Mcleod (and installed a King can thingie at the same time) to put in place of my Fox Float CTD w/boost valve, probably should've done the can swap after a few rides so I can feel the difference but after hearing all of the recommendations I jumped to it. No rides yet, big recent rains, so can't wait to start tuning it.

Just as an aside, the bike is Niner Jet 9 , the older 100mm rear travel version, and I was always so happy with it until I started riding an Intense Primer with a Float evol, since then the Niner just felt so harsh so seeing what this mcleod does for me.


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## tdaniel93 (Mar 29, 2019)

Mines on a Marin Hawk Hill and I'm not your normal sized rider at 250 lbs and hard charging. I've ridden my McLeod for a few months now and it's night and day between my old Rockshox Deluxe when riding Paris Mountain, Pleasant Ridge, and Dupont. It really does well on our trails.

Edit: meant to tag upstateSC-rider, the mobile sites pretty wonky right now.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

tdaniel93 said:


> Mines on a Marin Hawk Hill and I'm not your normal sized rider at 250 lbs and hard charging. I've ridden my McLeod for a few months now and it's night and day between my old Rockshox Deluxe when riding Paris Mountain, Pleasant Ridge, and Dupont. It really does well on our trails.
> 
> Edit: meant to tag upstateSC-rider, the mobile sites pretty wonky right now.


Great to hear, I'll keep an eye out for you.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

So I have two McLeods that have shrunk over time. The eye to eye length is up to 3mm shorter than it’s supposed to be and I’m assuming travel is reduced by that amount as well. Is this because the IFP chamber has lost nitrogen?


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Nothing to do with IFP, you just need to service the air can, depending how long it was, you might as well want to replace the main quad ring. But most importantly, remove the air can, clean and grease everything nicely and put it back on, everything will be back as it should be.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

piciu256 said:


> Nothing to do with IFP, you just need to service the air can, depending how long it was, you might as well want to replace the main quad ring. But most importantly, remove the air can, clean and grease everything nicely and put it back on, everything will be back as it should be.


Thanks for the response but I remove the air can and Clean and grease the seals on a regular basis. I had just done this to both shocks and when aired up they still both come up short. I has to be something else.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Is there a top out clunk? If it was the IFP losing oil, there would be some noise at full extension, remove the air can and see if the shock extends to proper length (a bit over actually) that way, if it does, then either you put too much grease which acts as a volume reducer, or there is something else wrong with the air can. If it was a sealing issue, it would be removed momentarily by resetting the air can.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

There is no top out clunck. That was always my clue to take the air can off and do a relube and negative air reset. I don’t use that much lube so it can’t be that. 

I’ll take the air can off again and measure the length.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I wonder, should my shock have a clicking/clunking noise that's so abrupt it's felt when standing on the bike? I confirmed its not the suspension bearings etc. because it's doing it still off the bike and without the air can, I don't think it's caused by the IPA, because it's independent of the setting (though a bit less pronounced on the higher ones, it feels a bit like the check valve is closing a delayed and so really abruptly. I'm asking since it's doing it pretty much from the start, and still doing it and I wonder should I send it in since I still have over a year of warranty and my experience is that after a year of owning the product it's always harder to achieve anything.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

piciu256 said:


> I wonder, should my shock have a clicking/clunking noise that's so abrupt it's felt when standing on the bike? I confirmed its not the suspension bearings etc. because it's doing it still off the bike and without the air can, I don't think it's caused by the IPA, because it's independent of the setting (though a bit less pronounced on the higher ones, it feels a bit like the check valve is closing a delayed and so really abruptly. I'm asking since it's doing it pretty much from the start, and still doing it and I wonder should I send it in since I still have over a year of warranty and my experience is that after a year of owning the product it's always harder to achieve anything.


Yes they all have it.. had one replaced under warranty, new one does same thing although less pronounced. Think it's more apparent on certain suspension designs. Strangely, when I added king can feeling mostly went away.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Good to know, I think it's time to replace the oil anyway so I might just see what's exactly is causing that.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

piciu256 said:


> I wonder, should my shock have a clicking/clunking noise that's so abrupt it's felt when standing on the bike? I confirmed its not the suspension bearings etc. because it's doing it still off the bike and without the air can, I don't think it's caused by the IPA, because it's independent of the setting (though a bit less pronounced on the higher ones, it feels a bit like the check valve is closing a delayed and so really abruptly. I'm asking since it's doing it pretty much from the start, and still doing it and I wonder should I send it in since I still have over a year of warranty and my experience is that after a year of owning the product it's always harder to achieve anything.


Here is a possible list of causes.

1. Shim knock at change of direction. 
2. Rebound check shims.
3. Piston band moving.
4. Something loose.

#1 is the most common cause. If it goes away with more IPA clicks then this is it. Fixes can range from the IPA knob limit screw (horizontal one in the side of the shock head) being backed out to the shock head being slightly out of adjustment (shock head on the shaft adjusts the stroke of the IPA).


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It's definitely knocking on change of direction, it's definitely loudest on start of rebound stroke, on compression stroke there also is a little knock, but it's very faint and goes away with more compression damping. Is it something I can fix? I realise it's probably nothing to worry about, but either way it bothers me as I'm a little bit OCD about the bike and I can't stop but wonder if it's not the bearings going out 😂


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

piciu256 said:


> It's definitely knocking on change of direction, it's definitely loudest on start of rebound stroke, on compression stroke there also is a little knock, but it's very faint and goes away with more compression damping. Is it something I can fix? I realise it's probably nothing to worry about, but either way it bothers me as I'm a little bit OCD about the bike and I can't stop but wonder if it's not the bearings going out 😂


First thing is check the IPA lever starts on the first notch. If it doesn't, there's an adjuster screw horizontal in the side of the shock head. Takes a 1.5mm hex key.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The lever starts on the first notch, will be taking the shock apart shortly to change oil and mayby fix this small issue.
I know that there is a different piston with a bypass hole in the side, it's supposed to make the rebound/ compression transition smoother, supposedly making the shock even more supple than it already is, I'm a sucker for traction so it made me wonder if I can just drill a hole in the existing piston, if so, will a 1mm drill do or is it too small to make any difference? Should I drill all 3 ports or just one of them? I don't have the yellow piston at hand obviously to see how it looks there.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

piciu256 said:


> The lever starts on the first notch, will be taking the shock apart shortly to change oil and mayby fix this small issue.
> I know that there is a different piston with a bypass hole in the side, it's supposed to make the rebound/ compression transition smoother, supposedly making the shock even more supple than it already is, I'm a sucker for traction so it made me wonder if I can just drill a hole in the existing piston, if so, will a 1mm drill do or is it too small to make any difference? Should I drill all 3 ports or just one of them? I don't have the yellow piston at hand obviously to see how it looks there.


1mm is to big for the bleed port. I can't say how big the gold pistons bleed is, but it's significantly smaller than that.

I don't recommend drilling it out, but if you do, you only need it in one port. You don't want to flow very much oil unchecked.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Thanks, I'll skip on that one then.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So all is done, the factory oil was still green so not worked very hard, I think I can get 2 years before changes easily, as I don't ride that much and I'm a light rider, anyway, the knock is now gone at IPA setting 1, I believe the shock head was not screwed on tight enough, I played around with the stack shims a bit, taking one out for more preload, but I couldn't find a sweet spot, so left it as it was- setting 0 a bit too loose and 1 slight preload. I must say, the service is very easy, if you're only changing oil there is not much going on.
@edit I mean the knock is not completely gone, but it's way less pronounced, and only present on rebound stroke.


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

piciu256 said:


> So all is done, the factory oil was still green so not worked very hard, I think I can get 2 years before changes easily, as I don't ride that much and I'm a light rider, anyway, the knock is now gone at IPA setting 1, I believe the shock head was not screwed on tight enough, I played around with the stack shims a bit, taking one out for more preload, but I couldn't find a sweet spot, so left it as it was- setting 0 a bit too loose and 1 slight preload. I must say, the service is very easy, if you're only changing oil there is not much going on.
> @edit I mean the knock is not completely gone, but it's way less pronounced, and only present on rebound stroke.


Was it easy to loosen the lock nut on the head? Do you need a special wrench? I'm on my 2nd McLeod (first was 2018 replaced under warranty for the knock) this 2019 replacement knocks even worse on both settings 1 & 2, even with set screw all the way in. I believe my only options are either try to adjust the head for free, spend $25 for a single 10mm shim and oil, or remove the 8mm gap shim and hope it balances the stacks.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

No special tools needed apart from the IFP adapter, the clamping bit is just a 10mm nut, you want a socket wrench for that though as it's a bit recessed into the piston, don't bother about the c clip that's on the nut, it's just the rebound check valve. Just be careful not to lose the order of shims, they should not fall off on their own cause oil is holding them glued together, but still. If your IPA is this loose, removing one or 2 clamp shims should help, mine did engage on the first click already, just the zero position is very loose, with one shim removed it got really tight towards the last click.


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

piciu256 said:


> No special tools needed apart from the IFP adapter, the clamping bit is just a 10mm nut, you want a socket wrench for that though as it's a bit recessed into the piston, don't bother about the c clip that's on the nut, it's just the rebound check valve. Just be careful not to lose the order of shims, they should not fall off on their own cause oil is holding them glued together, but still. If your IPA is this loose, removing one or 2 clamp shims should help, mine did engage on the first click already, just the zero position is very loose, with one shim removed it got really tight towards the last click.


I was referring to the shockhead, at the top, it looks to be either a 20 or 21mm. Seems like the easiest fix, as opposed to a bleed and shim tune, as long as a regular wrench fits.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It's 20mm, I only have 19 and 22 😂 used an adjustable wrench, of course it scuffed the head a bit, but it worked.


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## misterdun (May 7, 2012)

You know how they say there is no such thing as a daft question, well prepare yourselves. Can someone explain the difference between the 190x50 and 190x45 Metric (apart from them being different travel), is it purely down to the metric being a precise measurement in mm but the non-metric is an approximate mm converted from inches. I hope that questions makes sense?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

misterdun said:


> You know how they say there is no such thing as a daft question, well prepare yourselves. Can someone explain the difference between the 190x50 and 190x45 Metric (apart from them being different travel), is it purely down to the metric being a precise measurement in mm but the non-metric is an approximate mm converted from inches. I hope that questions makes sense?


The push to "metric" shocks has nothing to do with the switch measuring them in metric. "Imperial" shock sizes always has metric numbers associated with them as well.

The switch to "metric" shock sizes is mainly because shock manufacturers got together and decided to standardize sizing rather than allow frame manufacturers to dictate sizing. Its mainly to give consistent changes as shocks grow in length. This gives the shock manufacturers more room to have more complex internals, and allows them to fit in the same way and perform the same in every size shock, without compromise.

For example, in the imperial shock standard, we had 190x50 and 200x50 sizes. The 200x50 has 10mm more room to fit a more complex damper set up or add IFP volume. Then add in 200x56, 216x63, 165x38..... Its all completely random. With metric, you get 190x40/190x45, then jump to 210x50/210x55, then 230x60/230x65. The idea of the metric standard is nothing more than to make these sizing jumps consistent. No idea why they chose to call it metric sizing.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

misterdun said:


> You know how they say there is no such thing as a daft question, well prepare yourselves. Can someone explain the difference between the 190x50 and 190x45 Metric (apart from them being different travel), is it purely down to the metric being a precise measurement in mm but the non-metric is an approximate mm converted from inches. I hope that questions makes sense?


The purpose of metric shocks was to make them longer for the same stroke. This gives shock designers more room for new wizardry.

In addition we've got a range of strokes in each length (i.e. 190x40 and 190x45mm are the same shock with/without a 5mm spacer) and the trunnion mounting option which is 25mm shorter eye to eye than the eyelet shocks are. So a 190x40/45mm in trunnion will be 165x40/45mm.

But it doesn't all make sense. For example 230x60/65mm exists in both trunnion and eyelet versions!


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## misterdun (May 7, 2012)

I was going to say it all made sense and then didn't, well most of it did. So the new tech would explain the difference in price?


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

There is no new tech really, the higher price you could explain by new tooling, but really, it's just the usual greed (don't know of you noticed, but bikes and parts are getting more and more expensive each year with no benefit to the consumer). As others said, it's all about space inside shock, it's just that they made things more confusing than necessary, as per usual.


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## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

[redacted] Shouldn't have derailed the Mcleod discussion.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

CCS86 said:


> Hey guys, please forgive the off topic question!
> 
> I have read the majority of this thread and appreciate the collective experience and cutting through the shock marketing hype.
> 
> ...


NOS Mattoc, but why not make a separate thread for this question?


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## tdaniel93 (Mar 29, 2019)

I think you're right, that is pretty off topic for this thread.

On that note, look at the Manitou Mattoc thread. Depends on what your definition of cheap is but you can find Mattoc Comps for around $200 that perform really well. I personally I have a 2019 Hawk Hill which is pretty much the same bike but with 27.5 wheels and 130mm of travel up front. I've upgraded to a Mattoc Pro (even more adjustability) up front and a McLeod on the rear and the bike is a whole different animal now. Just beware, Marin will void your frame warranty if the axle to crown measurement is more than a few mm different on your new fork and the lowest travel you can reduce the Mattoc to is 140mm.

You could also find a used Manitou Magnum 27.5+ which will fit 29er tires and can be extended to 120mm such as this https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/2393930/

Here's a link to the Mattoc thread
https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mattoc-899836.html#post14583323


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Dude seriously... Off topic indeed... There are plenty of topics regarding your subject already, from reading them you can find that the best bet is a Mattoc or Machete (Minute) as many peopple complain about the lower end RS stuff.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Doing my winter maintenance stuff as ski season has completely taken up all of my ride time.

Have completely rebuilt the mattoc, added an angleset to try out, repacked all the wheel bearings and suspension bearings.

Now it's time to install the king can onto my 190x50 McLeod. Is it as simple as removing the standard can, regrease seals, and slide the new can on? Or is there anything inside to standard can that needs to be installed into the king can?

No rush for answers on this - at least another 8 weeks before I will be riding this bike.....


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

006_007 said:


> Now it's time to install the king can onto my 190x50 McLeod. Is it as simple as removing the standard can, regrease seals, and slide the new can on?


Yes


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Ok, here's the deal. For a Giant Trance I am selling to a friend I ordered a McLeod 200x50, but found out it was a 200x56 after having ridden it (I can't send it back as new). Before I contact the seller, I've read that you can reduce the 56mm with a spacer. How would that work. What would I need exactly?

I also have a king can from the previous 200x50mm, I suppose I can't make that somehow work for the 200x56mm?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

The spacers (Manitou sells 3mm spacers) reduces both the travel and eye to eye length so that won’t work for you. 
And yes you are correct about the king cans being different.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CS645 said:


> Ok, here's the deal. For a Giant Trance I am selling to a friend I ordered a McLeod 200x50, but found out it was a 200x56 after having ridden it (I can't send it back as new). Before I contact the seller, I've read that you can reduce the 56mm with a spacer. How would that work. What would I need exactly?
> 
> I also have a king can from the previous 200x50mm, I suppose I can't make that somehow work for the 200x56mm?


Deflate the shock on the bike, if nothing hits then it's good to ride. You've now got ~10% more free travel.

The spacers are for reducing length and stroke. To just reduce stroke you need to put a spacer on the shaft. Which requires full shock strip down.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks guys. I will tell him to check full travel. 157mm vs 140mm is quite a bit, but we'll give it a try.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

So, all the new Metric McLeods get the flexible IFP Damper?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> So, all the new Metric McLeods get the flexible IFP Damper?


It's a bit more complex than that. But sit tight and all will be clarified.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm just curious if I should slurge on a new metric McCleod or hold out. My Deluxe needs a rebuild so it may be worthwhile to spend the extra $100 and get a McLeod, but I really want the newest tech.


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## twodogsfighting (May 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> It's a bit more complex than that. But sit tight and all will be clarified.


This sounds interesting.


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

I love the Mcleod on my 2012 Marin Mount vision which uses a DW link variation. I'm buying a 2020 Rift Zone 3 and have no love for the Fox DPS. I'm wondering how a Mcleod would perform on this linkage driven single pivot bike. Leverage ratio as calculated by Vital MTB :


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Desertride said:


> I love the Mcleod on my 2012 Marin Mount vision which uses a DW link variation. I'm buying a 2020 Rift Zone 3 and have no love for the Fox DPS. I'm wondering how a Mcleod would perform on this linkage driven single pivot bike. Leverage ratio as calculated by Vital MTB :
> View attachment 1315853


Looks like it would need a king can. Would work well though.


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## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mullen119 said:


> Looks like it would need a king can. Would work well though.


Because of the progressivity?

I ride a '18, with roughly the same leverage curve. With my RS SuperDeluxe I need 3 tokens to keep a tiny travel reserve at 30% sag. I was surprised by that.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


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## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

mullen119 said:


> Looks like it would need a king can. Would work well though.


Funny, some reviews and riders have reported needing to put volume tokens in the Fox shocks to get it to ramp up properly.


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## elephantrider (Mar 9, 2020)

*Standard, or King Can for Prime?*

I am wanting to pick up a McLeod for my Banshee Prime, but I am not sure if I should plan on starting with the standard, or King Can. It is a 2017 V2 Prime, and I am about 110 kilos (hoping to get down to 100 kilos). I am a novice rider, mild to moderately aggressive riding, not a lot of jumps or drops to flat. Hoping to get some feedback on which air can would be better suited for this frame leverage curve (attached), with my weight, and riding style. Thanks in advance.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

So I just mounted a McLeod to a Tallboy 4.
Was fully convinced the bushings I swapped over were causing play but after having put on new RS bushings I am pretty sure it is not a bushing issue. Reading this thread it seems it is the rebound clunk I am feeling. Especially when standing and pushing into the pedals or rolling over a rock or something slowly and letting it compress fully upon extension there is a slight sensation of clonking / feeling of play upon the change of direction from the shock.
Seems like this is common on the shock.
Anything to be concerned about or "they all do that?"
Will try dougals tip to add some platform clicks to see if it goes away.


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> So I just mounted a McLeod to a Tallboy 4.
> Was fully convinced the bushings I swapped over were causing play but after having put on new RS bushings I am pretty sure it is not a bushing issue. Reading this thread it seems it is the rebound clunk I am feeling. Especially when standing and pushing into the pedals or rolling over a rock or something slowly and letting it compress fully upon extension there is a slight sensation of clonking / feeling of play upon the change of direction from the shock.
> Seems like this is common on the shock.
> Anything to be concerned about or "they all do that?"
> Will try dougals tip to add some platform clicks to see if it goes away.


I was told it was nothing to worry about. But it was so annoying and I was actually losing performance from the shock because it was so bad. I took it apart and found out my shock was missing 4 or 5 shims, so I reccomend checking. I've had 2 with this problem, the first I sent back under warranty, the second I fixed myself.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

excesspeople said:


> I was told it was nothing to worry about. But it was so annoying and I was actually losing performance from the shock because it was so bad. I took it apart and found out my shock was missing 4 or 5 shims, so I reccomend checking. I've had 2 with this problem, the first I sent back under warranty, the second I fixed myself.


Missing 4-5 shims? Which ones?


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Missing 4-5 shims? Which ones?


Missing the 8x11x.1, 8x14x.1 on the comp stack, on the rebound stack it was missing both of the 8x15x.15 and also the 8x10x.2.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> So I just mounted a McLeod to a Tallboy 4.
> Was fully convinced the bushings I swapped over were causing play but after having put on new RS bushings I am pretty sure it is not a bushing issue. Reading this thread it seems it is the rebound clunk I am feeling. Especially when standing and pushing into the pedals or rolling over a rock or something slowly and letting it compress fully upon extension there is a slight sensation of clonking / feeling of play upon the change of direction from the shock.
> Seems like this is common on the shock.
> Anything to be concerned about or "they all do that?"
> Will try dougals tip to add some platform clicks to see if it goes away.


Oh man been down this same road... search and you will find my posts.

Never really fixed, even with a brand new shock tuned from factory. It was better than first one I had. I had it on a Santa Cruz Hightower. Was less an issue with king can strangely.

Was thinking sc vpp made it more pronounced..? Idk.

If it bothers you I would buy a different shock... you will never fully fix it in my opinion.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

Well I haven't had the opportunity to try it on a trail yet, only some curbside bouncing. Tried all different platform settings, the knock still remains 
Good to hear its fairly normal, less so it seems unfixable.
Anyway, will try riding a bit and see if it drives me mental 
Definitely feels like the VPP linkage pronounces it, as it feels like its at a specific point in the linkage leverage.


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> Well I haven't had the opportunity to try it on a trail yet, only some curbside bouncing. Tried all different platform settings, the knock still remains
> Good to hear its fairly normal, less so it seems unfixable.
> Anyway, will try riding a bit and see if it drives me mental
> Definitely feels like the VPP linkage pronounces it, as it feels like its at a specific point in the linkage leverage.


If it's doing it on all the settings then it's probably bushing play. Are your shock mount bolts torqued down to spec?


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> Well I haven't had the opportunity to try it on a trail yet, only some curbside bouncing. Tried all different platform settings, the knock still remains
> Good to hear its fairly normal, less so it seems unfixable.
> Anyway, will try riding a bit and see if it drives me mental
> Definitely feels like the VPP linkage pronounces it, as it feels like its at a specific point in the linkage leverage.


I had a knocking issue while back, it turned out to be two things. Loose lower suspension linkage and also play in lower shock mount DU bushing (fox polymer bushing). I swapped the lower bushing back to the standard aluminum DU bushing that came with the Mcleod, since my lower mount as zero movement.

I would go though your suspension linkage and double check your mounting hardware?


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

In2falling said:


> I had a knocking issue while back, it turned out to be two things. Loose lower suspension linkage and also play in lower shock mount DU bushing (fox polymer bushing). I swapped the lower bushing back to the standard aluminum DU bushing that came with the Mcleod, since my lower mount as zero movement.
> 
> I would go though your suspension linkage and double check your mounting hardware?


It's not... been down that road but... these shocks also have that issue... just search this thread for my username and you will find ive been through all of this!! Lol ? but loose bushings don't cuase knocking... but yes they are loose, at least they were on both my McLeods.

Honestly, if I had to do it again I'd buy a fox or a rockshox... just too many weird issues with McLeod. I wanted to like it, and support is great but it's just a pain in the ass to chase this stuff down and many people in this thread will tell you you are wrong about what you discover. For whatever reason this thread contains extreme manitou believers that will not except that there are weird things about this shock.

If you are bothered with feel of the shock, do yourself a favor, sell it and buy something else.

This is just my opinion, but please read my other threads on this, just trying to help!!


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

seamarsh said:


> It's not... been down that road but... these shocks also have that issue... just search this thread for my username and you will find ive been through all of this!! Lol  but loose bushings don't cuase knocking... but yes they are loose, at least they were on both my McLeods.
> 
> This is just my opinion, but please read my other threads on this, just trying to help!!


Loose bushings will absolutely cause a knock, as will loose mount bolts. Seamarsh, I've read all your posts while trying to figure out mine. I think I remember a post where you said yours had signs of cavitation. Did you check to confirm your shim stacks were correct? That's what was causing my knock.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Honestly, that kind of the point.. a shock shouldn’t be this much work, period. You should be able to buy it, slap it on your bike and ride, just way to much troubleshooting for what is a mediocre shock... it’s not bad but it’s certainly not amazing and definitely not worth the amount of effort I put into it. Buy a fox dpx2 and be done with it... none of these issues. Again just my opinion, but I spent hours on this thing, to the point I had it replaced and tuned by one of the lead engineers... still had issues.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

The linkage is tight, as soon as I swap the stock Fox DPS in again there are no knocks.
The bushings are brand new and sit super tight on the original new du bushes.
Also tried Fox Igus hardware, same result.
All bolts are tightened to spec with a torque wrench.
Bushing play normally can be felt when wiggling / lifting / twisting the linkage by hand and normally you feel bushing play also when the shock is fully extended.
This knock occurs while the shock is compressed and I would say right about when it goes from compression to extension.
From what I heard there is basically no customer service in Europe but I will have to research that a bit more 
Really annoying to be honest.....


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

excesspeople said:


> Missing the 8x11x.1, 8x14x.1 on the comp stack, on the rebound stack it was missing both of the 8x15x.15 and also the 8x10x.2.


There are different tunes and most shocks don't use those sizes you listed. Simply adding them in will make the shim stacks incredibly firm.

Especially your rebound stack.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> The linkage is tight, as soon as I swap the stock Fox DPS in again there are no knocks.
> The bushings are brand new and sit super tight on the original new du bushes.
> Also tried Fox Igus hardware, same result.
> All bolts are tightened to spec with a torque wrench.
> ...


Does it reduce or stop with more clicks of IPA?

If it does then it's the start point of the adjuster which can be adjusted to stop it. If it doesn't then it's another cause inside the shock.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Does it reduce or stop with more clicks of IPA?
> 
> If it does then it's the start point of the adjuster which can be adjusted to stop it. If it doesn't then it's another cause inside the shock.


No difference with more clicks of IPA, only that the shock becomes more difficult to compress.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

I have a slight knock too. Thought it was the bushings forever then played with the IPA valve a realized it disappeared with a click or two. Annoying as hell since I feel no need for damping on my frame (SB4.5) but whatever. Shock is still better than the DPS. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> There are different tunes and most shocks don't use those sizes you listed. Simply adding them in will make the shim stacks incredibly firm.
> 
> Especially your rebound stack.


Those are the current stock shim stacks listed on the shim tune page. These are the only ones that were on it







I'm running a different stack than stock now, no knock and the performance is so amazing and plush even with small bump


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> So I just mounted a McLeod to a Tallboy 4.
> Was fully convinced the bushings I swapped over were causing play but after having put on new RS bushings I am pretty sure it is not a bushing issue. Reading this thread it seems it is the rebound clunk I am feeling. Especially when standing and pushing into the pedals or rolling over a rock or something slowly and letting it compress fully upon extension there is a slight sensation of clonking / feeling of play upon the change of direction from the shock.
> Seems like this is common on the shock.
> Anything to be concerned about or "they all do that?"
> Will try dougals tip to add some platform clicks to see if it goes away.


I have a 210 x 55 on my Ripmo. It has top out spacers in the shock body. I have had the same slight knock since new. I took the shock apart, lubed the seals and made sure everything was good. That was over 1,000 miles ago. It still has the knock, but I never notice it on the trail. I believe that the spacers move away from the end of the shock body on compression (slightly) and make the subtle knock when they re-contact the end of the shock body on first extension. I put sticky grease on the spacers to try and stick them to the end of the chamber and that seemed to help a bit.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Say you want to increase the progressiveness of the McLeod with kingcan (currently in the middle position) but don't want to reduce the negative chamber by going to the stock chamber, what would be the best way of reducing positive air chamber volume?


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

What are you talking about? The negative volume is unchanged between king can and standard can, if you want a bit less volume, just get some grease inside of the chamber or rubber bands in the air can sleeve, just like you would on any other shock.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

piciu256 said:


> What are you talking about? The negative volume is unchanged between king can and standard can, if you want a bit less volume, just get some grease inside of the chamber or rubber bands in the air can sleeve, just like you would on any other shock.


I though both the positive and negative volume increased on with the king can. Could easily be mistaken though.

Thanks for the tip. I will give it a try.


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## neb (Aug 12, 2008)

I've been puzzling over the spring rate curves for the standard, full volume king can and the mid setting of the king can. It doesn't add up.

The mid volume king can has a slightly higher mid stroke spring rate and a slightly higher end stroke spring rate, compared to the full volume king can, the standard volume can has a lower mid stroke and a significantly higher end stroke spring rate. I can't see how the only difference is volume. 

If the only difference is positive chamber volume between standard and king can, then the spring rate curves just look like marketing BS.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

excesspeople said:


> Those are the current stock shim stacks listed on the shim tune page. These are the only ones that were on it
> View attachment 1317239
> 
> I'm running a different stack than stock now, no knock and the performance is so amazing and plush even with small bump


Stock shims in all the McLeods I've been into:
8x12 against the piston.
10x20x0.2 (4) 
10x14x0.1 between the shims and preload collar.

Rebound 
8x16x0.2mm
8x10x02mm

They did change to 15mm shims at some point in production, but I haven't checked those as much. The compression stack is more obvious and while I know they made other compression stacks, I have yet to see one.

Sounds like you're putting a velocity stack against the piston under adjustable 10mm shims. That will stop the adjustable shims from knocking if they were. But careful adjustment of the zero point will also stop them knocking.


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## excesspeople (Feb 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Sounds like you're putting a velocity stack against the piston under adjustable 10mm shims. That will stop the adjustable shims from knocking if they were. But careful adjustment of the zero point will also stop them knocking.


That is how it came stock from Hayes, 2019 manufacture date, it was definitely missing shims. I am currently running the new machined face piston with the 8x16x.1 velocity shim right on it, then 2-8x11x.1, then 3-10x20x.2 on top. Rebound is 2x15x.15, 2x12x.15 and 1x10x.15. This setup is almost the same as the one Hayes reccomended to me when I asked for the shims. Adjusting the zero point did nothing for the knock, even all the way in it still knocked IPA setting 2, I wanted to try and adjust the head but I didn't have a wrench that fits the locknut.


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## TeamRWB (Feb 19, 2014)

Well might need a new shock Sent to TrailLabs for service and has been lost in the mail. Glad I put excessive Insurance on it. So get another or try something else

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Here's the leverage ratio for my Mach 6. Would a king can be appropriate? 160lb rider.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

By my experience (a bit less progressive frame than yours, 120lbs rider), definitely, I had to set 40% sag to be close to using all travel, but the last 2mm were still unachievable.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

TylerVernon said:


> Here's the leverage ratio for my Mach 6. Would a king can be appropriate? 160lb rider.


I have a Mach 6 (2017, not sure if they changed it significantly) and I'm running a regular can with 5cc of extra volume reduction. I'm 160 in gear and run 111 psi on a Mcleod. From the sag point on, it's actually pretty linear so I need to reduce volume to not bottom too easily. The info you provided shows from 40mm travel to bottom only changing 2.52-2.37. That is a very small change relatively speaking.

I also jump everything I see, and over jump things fairly often, so I'm a little bit harder on my stuff than most. I still think the regular can fits well though and I would ride and see what you think before spending the money on a KC.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Ok, thanks. It's wet here so I'm in thinking mode. I'll ride it with the regular.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Ah yes, I made the basic mistake of not thinking, it is pretty much linear after the sag point, so the standard can should be about right.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

what benefits will i see from king can?
any idea where i can purchase one for 200x45 mcleod, online in us?


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It depends, do you have trouble using all travel with proper 30% or so sag? If not, you don't need the king can. Isnt the 200x45 air can the same as 200x50/190x50?


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

piciu256 said:


> It depends, do you have trouble using all travel with proper 30% or so sag? If not, you don't need the king can. Isnt the 200x45 air can the same as 200x50/190x50?


i can use full travel no problem with 25% sag. and yes, it is probably 200x50 reduced to fit my ripley 4.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

For those interested, Manitou has a new site and is offering 20% off almost everything.

https://hayesbicycle.com/pages/manitou

Will cross post this in deals as well.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Vespasianus said:


> For those interested, Manitou has a new site and is offering 20% off almost everything. https://hayesbicycle.com/pages/manitouWill cross post this in deals as well.


So much stuff, but no 2019 mud guard for my Mattoc.


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

I noticed a lot of stiction while checking sag. Pulled the shock apart, cleaned and greased the seals, but still a lot of stiction. Should I do a full rebuild or just replace the seals? The shock is about a year old but not many hours on it.


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## misterdun (May 7, 2012)

So, noob question here. Have just received my McLeod from Germany (has spent some time in quarantine) and have 2x hardware kits https://www.bird.bike/product/shock...aeris-120-145-am9-rockshox-fox-cane-creek-il/ but am struggling to see how the hardware fits. I have tried (only by hand mind) to push the long black tube in but seems very stiff. Does this need pressing in or do I have the wrong kit?


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## misterdun (May 7, 2012)

Sorry the bearing/tube (please help me out here) is silver in that picture but I have the Fox black one.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

First you need to press the bushings into the eylet, then the long tube. It is tight and may not be possible by hand


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## misterdun (May 7, 2012)

Again noob question, are the bushings already installed? This is what I have got.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

misterdun said:


> Again noob question, are the bushings already installed? This is what I have got.


Yes, those are bushings in the eyelets.

It looks like you also have some fox-bushings sitting there on the table (the tan hat-shaped things).


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## misterdun (May 7, 2012)

Right, beginning to make sense, thanks guys.


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## misterdun (May 7, 2012)

Do most folk stick with the Manitou bushings or is it better to remove these and use the Fox ones?


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

misterdun said:


> Do most folk stick with the Manitou bushings or is it better to remove these and use the Fox ones?


That really depends on the bike and how its shock mounting hardware is configured. The Fox bushings work a little differently so the spacers that work with them are different. The stock Manitou bushings are the most universal style but if your bike came setup for the Fox bushings then it may be easier to use them. For some bikes I might swap it all out on one end with something like the needle roller bearings from RWC.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

misterdun said:


> Again noob question, are the bushings already installed? This is what I have got.


Here's the problem you're going to encounter trying to retrofit the hardware shown in the picture without pressing the existing bushings out of the shock. Those tan Fox bushings have a lip on them that will take up a couple mm of width on each side such that when you install the two black spacers the total width of the shock eyelet, tan bushing lip and black spacers exactly matches the length of the black "tube" you stick through it all.

If you were to just press the black "tube" into the eyelet as it sits right now with the existing bushings and then put the black spacers on each side there will be a bit of side-to-side slop because of the missing width of the tan Fox bushing lips.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> For those who may need one, the Mcleod 3 in 1 IFP tool has been added to the Hayes store.
> 
> https://shop.hayesperformance.com/products/rear-shock-ifp-4-in-1-tool?_pos=4&_sid=65347b2c3&_ss=r


too bad I cant buy this / get it shipped to Canada. My Mcleod started making the clunk sound at top out today.

Am I correct that it is bad to ride it like this?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

006_007 said:


> too bad I cant buy this / get it shipped to Canada. My Mcleod started making the clunk sound at top out today.
> 
> Am I correct that it is bad to ride it like this?


A top out clunk is usually a sign the negative air spring lost pressure and it's time to do a reset. Pull the air can off and service it and see if it helps.

They changed the URL for the 3 in 1

https://hayesbicycle.com/collections/manitou/products/rear-shock-3-in-1-ifp-service-tool

You can contact Zac Smith from Smithtech in you are in Canada and he can get you one if you need it.

https://www.smithtechbike.com/suspension-services


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mullen119 said:


> They changed the URL for the 3 in 1
> 
> https://hayesbicycle.com/collections/manitou/products/rear-shock-3-in-1-ifp-service-tool


Is there any difference in the new ones other than the colors?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> Is there any difference in the new ones other than the colors?


No difference. The colored versions are actually older, now there are all raw colored.


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## tag975 (May 6, 2006)

Hi there,
My Mcleod lost some of it's smoothness so I think it's time to reset the negative air chamber. As I understand I do this by removing and reinstalling the air can.
Is there a quick and simple step-by-step guide for doing this?
Following the YouTube video you have to remove the shock from the bike and clamp it in a vice, unscrew the air can and then reinstall the shock on the bike and compress it for complete removal. Do you guys strictly follow this procedure or it can be all done without removing the shock from the bike, unscrewing the can while the shock is mounted? 
Also do I have to regrease the internal parts at every reset and what parts exactly needs to be regreased?
Thank you in advance for your help.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

tag975 said:


> Hi there,
> My Mcleod lost some of it's smoothness so I think it's time to reset the negative air chamber. As I understand I do this by removing and reinstalling the air can.
> Is there a quick and simple step-by-step guide for doing this?
> Following the YouTube video you have to remove the shock from the bike and clamp it in a vice, unscrew the air can and then reinstall the shock on the bike and compress it for complete removal. Do you guys strictly follow this procedure or it can be all done without removing the shock from the bike, unscrewing the can while the shock is mounted?
> ...


I just take it off the bike and remove/reinstall air can with some freah grease, and put back on the bike.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

cavo said:


> I just take it off the bike and remove/reinstall air can with some freah grease, and put back on the bike.


I usually do it with the shock still connected (one side - the air can side) on the bike. Makes it much easier to remove and reinstall the air can.

Obviously clean and grease all seals and sliding bushings.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aaronka970 (May 7, 2010)

*Mcleod for aluminum Guerrilla Gravity Smash*

Currently on a 2017 Canfield Riot with a Mcleod rear shock (200 x 57). Love this shock. Looking to move most of my build over to a 2018 (aluminum) Guerrilla Gravity Smash. I'd like to purchase another Mcleod if possible.

GG Smash - shock size is 230 x 57.5
Looks like the closest Mcleod size I can buy is 230 x 60.

Questions:
1. How hard is it to shorten the stroke 2.5 mm? (ha! - or just run a smaller tire?)

2. My Riot shock came with a king can I don't use (not very progressive suspension)
Any chance this king can will work with the larger Mcleod for the Smash? Sounds like the Smash is more progressive.

I searched Guerrilla Gravity and Smash on this thread - doesn't seem like anyone is using any Mcleods - also - similar results searching Mcleod over on the GG forums.

Thanks!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

aaronka970 said:


> Currently on a 2017 Canfield Riot with a Mcleod rear shock (200 x 57). Love this shock. Looking to move most of my build over to a 2018 (aluminum) Guerrilla Gravity Smash. I'd like to purchase another Mcleod if possible.
> 
> GG Smash - shock size is 230 x 57.5
> Looks like the closest Mcleod size I can buy is 230 x 60.
> ...


Installing a stroke spacer needs a full strip-down. You need to take the damper apart and either the head off or all everything off the damper piston end.

Does the frame contact anything with 60mm stroke or was it just reduced to give them the nice round travel number?

I have liked King Can better on everything. So worth riding it. You can always pack it full of o-rings and other volume spacers.


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## aaronka970 (May 7, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Installing a stroke spacer needs a full strip-down. You need to take the damper apart and either the head off or all everything off the damper piston end.
> 
> Does the frame contact anything with 60mm stroke or was it just reduced to give them the nice round travel number?
> 
> I have liked King Can better on everything. So worth riding it. You can always pack it full of o-rings and other volume spacers.


Thanks for the quick reply Dougal.
Not sure on the frame contact - I called GG and asked them - the lady I got didn't seem too technical - but was like "yeah you better not..."

I'll search the 60mm stroke over on the GG forum and see what I find.

Do you think the king can for my 200 x 57 riot shock would be compatible with a 230 x 60? Or is the King can more size specific than that?

thanks again


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

aaronka970 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply Dougal.
> Not sure on the frame contact - I called GG and asked them - the lady I got didn't seem too technical - but was like "yeah you better not..."
> 
> I'll search the 60mm stroke over on the GG forum and see what I find.
> ...


Get another bike user, have them slam the shock and check for clearance. The King Can's aren't swappable like that. Some sizes use the same outer can, but they all have dedicated spacers etc inside.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Better topic


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Any new word on if/when the Mcleod will be available in trunnion? Or will it only be available with the Mara?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rpearce1475 said:


> Any new word on if/when the Mcleod will be available in trunnion? Or will it only be available with the Mara?


I was expecting some news this year. But this years news schedule hasn't been cooperative.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

could anyone help me with picking correct king can for my mcleod?
my shock size is 190x45 but there is on king can this size. closest is 190x50 and i assume this is what i need. i inspected the shock and there appears to be a spacer in neg chamber that i think is used to make 190x50 into 190x45. so i think, i do have 190x50 that is just spaced down to 190x45?
thanks


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

aaronka970 said:


> Currently on a 2017 Canfield Riot with a Mcleod rear shock (200 x 57). Love this shock. Looking to move most of my build over to a 2018 (aluminum) Guerrilla Gravity Smash. I'd like to purchase another Mcleod if possible.
> 
> GG Smash - shock size is 230 x 57.5
> Looks like the closest Mcleod size I can buy is 230 x 60.


It's probably worth the tear down to have the shock modified for a Smash.

A 60mm stroke will allow tire contact at the seat tube with anything larger than a 2.3 tire. Likely contact may occur even with that smaller tire.

Since Metric is likely to be around for awhile, I'd probably invest in a Mara and practice tearing apart your older McLeod, then do the same thing on the Mara to install a stroke spacer.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cavo said:


> could anyone help me with picking correct king can for my mcleod?
> my shock size is 190x45 but there is on king can this size. closest is 190x50 and i assume this is what i need. i inspected the shock and there appears to be a spacer in neg chamber that i think is used to make 190x50 into 190x45. so i think, i do have 190x50 that is just spaced down to 190x45?
> thanks


190x45 is a metric size.
You can fit a 190x50 imperial king-can with a total of 8mm negative spacers.

Stock it should have 2 neg spacers of total thickness 11.75mm (10.35 and 1.4mm).

You could use the 1.4mm spacer and 5 of these: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

So like lots of people in this thread it seems, I'm experiencing knocking. I have a Hightower with 6x21.85mm Fox mounting hardware. Most people seem to have play with the DU bushings but in my case, there is play between the 6x8mm sleeve and the bolt. I actually measured the bolt as 5.9mm. Could that be the issue? Should I change the sleeve or the bolt?


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

Nevermind. The issue is not the play between bolt and reducing sleeve. I installed just the bolt and sleeve in the frame and there is zero play because the sleeve is squeezed in the frame. So I'm still trying to figure out where the play is coming from. Here's what my hardware looks like (one o-ring got destroyed):







What should I buy to have the greatest chance of success in getting rid of the knocking?


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

The eyelet is too big for the Fox hardware. The polymer bushing is not compressed enough and the sleeve is too loose in the bushing. I don't know what is an economical solution for this problem. Perhaps original Manitou hardware, but this is old-style.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Kadath said:


> Nevermind. The issue is not the play between bolt and reducing sleeve. I installed just the bolt and sleeve in the frame and there is zero play because the sleeve is squeezed in the frame. So I'm still trying to figure out where the play is coming from. Here's what my hardware looks like (one o-ring got destroyed):
> View attachment 1331133
> 
> What should I buy to have the greatest chance of success in getting rid of the knocking?


Not to be harsh but the solution is to buy a different shock!... if you read my replies to this thread you will see I went down every road to fix this.... it's just something you either have to live with, like the loose bushings, or decide it's not worth it and but something that works. I put in way too much time on fixing this and was never happy.. I sold the bike and shock went with it. Riding should be about having fun not wasting time on bs like this.

I know this is harsh but I will not be buying another manitou suspension product ever again. Back on RockShox and it just works!! Like it should.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Kadath said:


> Nevermind. The issue is not the play between bolt and reducing sleeve. I installed just the bolt and sleeve in the frame and there is zero play because the sleeve is squeezed in the frame. So I'm still trying to figure out where the play is coming from. Here's what my hardware looks like (one o-ring got destroyed):
> View attachment 1331133
> 
> What should I buy to have the greatest chance of success in getting rid of the knocking?


When you push in the white polymer pieces, how tight is it? When you push in the pin, how tight is it?

The easiest option is to call Manitou with the size of reducers you need and install those - they will work. The mcleod I have on my Ripley is using the Manitou reducers (no issues).


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Vespasianus said:


> When you push in the white polymer pieces, how tight is it? When you push in the pin, how tight is it?
> 
> The easiest option is to call Manitou with the size of reducers you need and install those - they will work. The mcleod I have on my Ripley is using the Manitou reducers (no issues).


The knock is not the bushings! I had a Hightower as well.. knock is internal.. I went through 2 shocks, one brand new and every bushing available, fox, manitou, RockShox .. knock was still there... Not sure if the suspension Kinematics play a part of this on Hightower but you are wasting your time trying to fix this!!! Sad to say.

My second shock was a direct replacement for first and was even tuned for me by chief engineer... it still had a knock!!


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So a knock in bushings is the manufacturers fault even if you use incompatible mounting hardware 
You got unlucky and your Fox hardware is not compatible, I heard most of the time it fits (it did for me) anyway, that might not resolve the knocking, if you have a loud, distinct knock on compression stroke, then it's the IPA not adjusted properly, that's resolved with a bit of preload, if you just hear a very feint knock- that's most probably either the rebound check plate or either shim stack closing, there is nothing really to be done about it, neither does it impact performance in any way, it's not loud enough to be heard during riding either, so you just have to accept that it's not important. I'll take a faint knock over an unusable rebound or compression tune any day.


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

seamarsh, I read your posts, you're scaring me! I hope that the knock is all due to the bushings and not the shock as you experienced. Crossing fingers.

Vespasianus, the white piece are not really tight but will not fall off by themselves though. The center pin is quite tight however. I can't really detect any play just by playing with the bushings with the shock out of the frame.

I did have new white bushings that I had ordered as spares and just tried them (should have done that sooner). They were much tighter. I only had two so I used one on top and one at the bottom. Knock is still there but reduced, almost tolerable now. I'll try to order two more to see if this works as a cheap fix. Otherwise I'll order genuine Manitou hardware.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Kadath said:


> seamarsh, I read your posts, you're scaring me! I hope that the knock is all due to the bushings and not the shock as you experienced. Crossing fingers.
> 
> Vespasianus, the white piece are not really tight but will not fall off by themselves though. The center pin is quite tight however. I can't really detect any play just by playing with the bushings with the shock out of the frame.
> 
> I did have new white bushings that I had ordered as spares and just tried them (should have done that sooner). They were much tighter. I only had two so I used one on top and one at the bottom. Knock is still there but reduced, almost tolerable now. I'll try to order two more to see if this works as a cheap fix. Otherwise I'll order genuine Manitou hardware.


the chief engineer customized the manitou bushings on their lathe to fit the replacement shock they sent me... still had a knock... I'm telling you I went out of my way to like this shock and make it work. If you are sensitive to it it will bother you as it did me for the rest of time. So just get a different shock. The genuine hardware doesn't fix it. Also the ipa adjustments doesn't fix it either.. manitou took apart a brand new shock for me and tuned it, making sure it was set up perfectly.. still had the knock!!!

Only thing that seemed to help me a little was using king can.. not sure if it was just extra insulation of king can but it was less noticeable... but I still noticed!!! Lol ? and that's my point..

This not a know on manitou support, they were great but I'm telling you this shock will continue to give you grief. Get a different brand and stop thinking about that knock!! Lol


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Delete


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

I actually sold the DPX2 that came on my bike to get the McLeod. Not that I didn't like this shock, but I like to tinker and do my own maintenance and the DPX2 requires tons of custom tools to work on it. The McLeod seems way more tinker friendly. I'm also a bit of a weight weenie.

So far I got great support from Manitou, they even sent me that yellow piston, shims and seals free of charge. What other company does that? So I'll try my best to make it work, hoping that I get a different experience than you did


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Kadath said:


> I actually sold the DPX2 that came on my bike to get the McLeod. Not that I didn't like this shock, but I like to tinker and do my own maintenance and the DPX2 requires tons of custom tools to work on it. The McLeod seems way more tinker friendly. I'm also a bit of a weight weenie.
> 
> So far I got great support from Manitou, they even sent me that yellow piston, shims and seals free of charge. What other company does that? So I'll try my best to make it work, hoping that I get a different experience than you did


Yes I concur! Have only good things to say about support. It's just that the shock has issues and I'm ocd so a knock in my shock saps the fun out of a ride. Again it could be specific to Hightower vpp... because our issue sound exactly the same. I even tried to convince myself it was fixed a couple
Times but the knock was always there.. sad but true!! Good luck with your shock!


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

It's odd, I don't doubt the people that have reported the knocks, but I have had a few different McLeods on multiple bikes and have never heard a peep of a knock. The first one, that I put on a Smuggler, needed some adjusting of the set screws to get the adjusters tight and right, and it was maybe a wee bit on the loose side of the eyelet tolerances, but I keep a good stock of bushings and setting it up was relatively simple overall and it worked great, definitely better than the Monarch it replaced. My current bike is a Ripley v4 and that McLeod was tight and just right out of the box and the stock Ibis hardware was a perfect fit. It works great on the bike, too. My McLeod experiences helped lead me to try a Mezzer and now I am all in on Manitou, and loving the Kashima free life.

I guess I am trying to say, don't feel doomed to live with the knock, but I can't say how to fix a problem I haven't had other than to make sure all the little set screws are correctly installed and make sure the mounting hardware is dialed in. If it's an internal issue, well that is unfortunate and definitely a conversation for Manitou tech or the resident shim and piston gurus.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Kadath said:


> What should I buy to have the greatest chance of success in getting rid of the knocking?


Give the Real World Cycling Needle Bearing kit a look. If you have questions you can post in the thread going on this board or shoot them an e-mail. Either way they are quick to respond and eager to help you sort out what configuration you need for your shock-bike combo.

As a side note. I run a McLeod on both my FS bikes and have never heard even a hit of a knock out of either of them. I could easily fill a full page on this forum blathering on about how much better they are than the POS Fox shocks they replaced.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Kadath said:


> seamarsh, I read your posts, you're scaring me! I hope that the knock is all due to the bushings and not the shock as you experienced. Crossing fingers.
> 
> Vespasianus, the white piece are not really tight but will not fall off by themselves though. The center pin is quite tight however. I can't really detect any play just by playing with the bushings with the shock out of the frame.
> 
> I did have new white bushings that I had ordered as spares and just tried them (should have done that sooner). They were much tighter. I only had two so I used one on top and one at the bottom. Knock is still there but reduced, almost tolerable now. I'll try to order two more to see if this works as a cheap fix. Otherwise I'll order genuine Manitou hardware.


The bushing should be tight but be insertable by hand. The pin should be tight and take a little bit of force to get it - like pushing against the table etc.

I have one of the first Mcleods from 2015 and and I used the fox bushing system from the beginning (on a Turner 5-Spot). I have replaced the bushing three times. The first set was the 5 piece fox system. Worked perfectly. The second set was the 5 piece fox system. Worked perfectly. For the third set, I ordered the 5 piece fox system and the new pin fell through the bushing. Used an old pin and it was a little tighter but not much. I ordered both ends and both were loose. Ordered one more set and same result. Was gong to order the Manitou set but before that I ordered these fox bushings:

https://www.fanatikbike.com/product...MIur7G3pvr5gIVSdbACh0IGQwwEAQYAiABEgLFNfD_BwE

In the .5925 OD / .0498 ID and used the pin from my original set up and it was back to normal.

For my Ripley, I ordered the shock set up with bushings to fit the frame and the dealer said the fox system was too loose - so he put in the Manitou set up and it works fine. Personally, I am not sure what is going on.


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

Unfortunately the RWC needle bearing would cost me $75 CAD after shipping and exchange rate. That's way too steep, especially considering the fact that I heard reports that it's sometimes too loose in the McLeod.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Kadath said:


> Unfortunately the RWC needle bearing would cost me $75 CAD after shipping and exchange rate. That's way too steep, especially considering the fact that I heard reports that it's sometimes too loose in the McLeod.


I use Manitou hardware acquired from smithtech in Canada and have zero knocking issues. Don't fret over seamarsh experience - His is a noisy but not common experience.

Mine had a knock at topout, was because last time I reset negative air chamber it was close to freezing in my workshop - then when it was warmer it needed another reset. Knock was gone.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

Do you run the McLeod on a Hightower 2?
I had it on a Tallboy 4, tried everything, 3 types of hardware, 2 different shocks, still would knock. I ended up getting a refund for the shock as I couldn't live with the knocking.
If you are on a HT2, I am thinking it is related to the suspension kinematics of the new Santa Cruz frames.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Kinematics have nothing to do with it, I also have a VPP bike, mayby not your exact, but really similar kinematics, anyway, you can hear the knock even with the shock removed from the bike with no air can. 
But to the point- I believe it is normal for a shim stack with no preload to knock a little, all my forks do this, Sr Duair did this a bit louder than I'm used to and so I thought it was broken, destroyed when trying to take apart... those buggers glued the piston together... anyway, my McLeod had IPA knock from the beginning, different sound to what I'm talking about- much louder and more distinct, that shouldn't be there, too much float, easy fix- just flip the lever, but the feint knock is still here if you listen hard, my Monarch also had this sound, just even quieter! My car's suspension also makes this sound, which ensures me it's normal for shim stacks and check valves, I believe there are ways to eliminate this sound, but that imo is detrimental to performance (if I'm not mistaken- you need at least a bit if preload on the shim stack)
I believe RS and Fox design things specifically to address this "knock" exactly because some customers are very sensitive to unwanted sounds, I fortunately, while a bit ocd in that regard, can accept that it's nothing bad, aspecially when it's only heard off the bike, during riding even the tires are much louder than this.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

Except it was not just a noise, you feel the knock in the pedals.when forcefully compressing the shock at the point it goes from compression to extension. A noise alone would have been bearable.


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

I have a Hightower V1. I can't really hear the knock, the problem is that I feel it when going slow over small bumps or just fooling around on flat ground.

I also have plans to open the shock to tune the shim stack at some point. Wondering if there's anything I can do to help, if it's ideed coming from the shock itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

OK. Now I am puzzled. So this is not about a knock coming from poorly fitting reducers, but instead a simple knocking sound that may only arise on a bike from a single manufacturer, which does not impact performance?


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

I can't wrap my head around the idea that it would only happen on one particular bike. Probably just a fluke. In my case anyway, part of it is certainly coming from the bushings. I'm just hoping that it also doesn't come from the shock.

It does however affect performance. It basically amplifies small bump chatter instead of muting it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

I don't know whether it only happens on certain bikes, or that certain shocks have a small anomaly that gets amplified by certain linkage designs. All I know is that I never experienced anything like it on my Horst-link bike.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Think I got most of this after reading this long thread.
If you install a friction remote.

1.	Need remote kit to poach parts, toss the two-position lever in the trash. 
(Suppose one could DIY or beg for parts)
2.	If you install a friction remote, the adjustment is indefinite/linear between 1-4. (yes?)
3.	Adjusting while riding does not damage anything.

If friction remote has more travel then required, the shock side is robust enough at the end of adjustment travel stops? (If you accidentally twist/push hard, does it explode?)

Thanks


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Mac1987 said:


> I don't know whether it only happens on certain bikes, or that certain shocks have a small anomaly that gets amplified by certain linkage designs. All I know is that I never experienced anything like it on my Horst-link bike.


Yeah, I have two Mcleod's - one on a dw linked aluminum 5-spot and one on a dw linked carbon IBIS Ripley. The only time I hear a knocking sound is when the can needs to be reset (top-out noise).


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Turd said:


> Think I got most of this after reading this long thread.
> If you install a friction remote.
> 
> 1.	Need remote kit to poach parts, toss the two-position lever in the trash.
> ...


It doesn't explode. You can use a Shimano 11 speed front shifter to go from position 1 (open) to 3 to 4 (closed). The more I get in shape this year, the more I favor the fully closed position for anything except a coasting descent.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

TylerVernon said:


> It doesn't explode. You can use a Shimano 11 speed front shifter to go from position 1 (open) to 3 to 4 (closed). The more I get in shape this year, the more I favor the fully closed position for anything except a coasting descent.


Thanks, do you need to be in the designated setting position or is it more like opening and closing a "valve" with a full range. I don't have the shock but the installation vid indicates you remove the ball and spring that gives you position 1-4 clicks.
(If remote is in 2.5, are you in 1 or 2 or in between?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Turd said:


> Thanks, do you need to be in the designated setting position or is it more like opening and closing a "valve" with a full range. I don't have the shock but the installation vid indicates you remove the ball and spring that gives you position 1-4 clicks.
> (If remote is in 2.5, are you in 1 or 2 or in between?


You can go in-between, it's no problem. I have a micro-shift shifter I've used as a remote. Works fine.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Jayem said:


> You can go in-between, it's no problem. I have a micro-shift shifter I've used as a remote. Works fine.


Cool, I have gripshift x-ray and old 1987 xt thumbs with the friction / index toggle switch in the parts bin.


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## visus (Feb 4, 2009)

deleted


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## visus (Feb 4, 2009)

*Mcleod hardware advice*

I've seen a lot of recs for the Mcleod for heavier riders and progressive curves. I'm currently running a Monarch Plus Debonair on a Canfield Balance (2.85 to 2.4 linear falling rate) and I have to run over 300psi to get sag below 35% (I'm around 250# geared up). It's a bit too active in midstroke (pedal bob) and bottoms easily on small 2' drops.

I'm pretty sure the Mcloed will work much better for me but I'm struggling with hardware. Can I just press in some RS bushings (11.4115.013.000) and reuse my current hardware?


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

visus said:


> I'm pretty sure the Mcloed will work much better for me but I'm struggling with hardware. Can I just press in some RS bushings (11.4115.013.000) and reuse my current hardware?


The stock bushings that McLeods ship with already installed are essentially the same as those RS bushings. I would say from my own experiences with McLeods that there is a good chance you can just bolt it on and go with your existing hardware.


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## visus (Feb 4, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> The stock bushings that McLeods ship with already installed are essentially the same as those RS bushings.


Thanks for the input. Was planning on buying from Universal and their product listing states the shock requires 15mm hardware ... that's why I'm confused. It seemed to me the Manitou is now shipping shocks with bare eyelets (or different bushings than the std 12.7mm) and recommending their 15mm hardware. Been riding and wrenching for over a decade but only hardtails so all this rear shock hardware stuff is relatively new and confusing. I might delay the Mcleod and try swapping to a non-Debonair can on the Monarch first.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=72580


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

visus said:


> Thanks for the input. Was planning on buying from Universal and their product listing states the shock requires 15mm hardware ... that's why I'm confused. It seemed to me the Manitou is now shipping shocks with bare eyelets (or different bushings than the std 12.7mm) and recommending their 15mm hardware.


I don't think that means anything, just boilerplate. They all ship with standard bushings installed, I've seen plenty of them out of the box. I've swapped one for a Monarch before, same hardware worked fine. And the shock works much better.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Turd said:


> Cool, I have gripshift x-ray and old 1987 xt thumbs with the friction / index toggle switch in the parts bin.


Yes, it's smooth. I was plotting doing a 3d printed travel ratio modifier if the travels between the shifter and shock were different, but it was unnecessary. Fully closed is a bit tight but the stretch in the cable makes it work.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

My frame has quite a progressive leverage curve. Are there king cans available for the metric shocks? I couldn't find any via googling. If not, will an imperial king can fit on a 210x55 mcleod? If so, which one? e.g. the one for the 200x56 shock, or the one for the 216x63 shock, or...? i already have a bunch of those 1.25mm spacers (got them from Dougal a while ago). Ideally, i am looking to re-size the shock to around 208x53.

I saw an earlier post of Dougal's on this in relation to using an imperial king can on a metric shock, but it was on a shorter size (quoted below).



Dougal said:


> 190x45 is a metric size.
> You can fit a 190x50 imperial king-can with a total of 8mm negative spacers.
> 
> Stock it should have 2 neg spacers of total thickness 11.75mm (10.35 and 1.4mm).
> ...


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

sclyde2 said:


> My frame has quite a progressive leverage curve. Are there king cans available for the metric shocks? I couldn't find any via googling. If not, will an imperial king can fit on a 210x55 mcleod? If so, which one? e.g. the one for the 200x56 shock, or the one for the 216x63 shock, or...? i already have a bunch of those 1.25mm spacers (got them from Dougal a while ago). Ideally, i am looking to re-size the shock to around 208x53.
> 
> I saw an earlier post of Dougal's on this in relation to using an imperial king can on a metric shock, but it was on a shorter size (quoted below).


I just put a king can on my 210x55 McLeod. The can is the 200 x 56 (HB-142-31535-K032) and you need 4.75mm of spacers to make it work.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

springs said:


> I just put a king can on my 210x55 McLeod. The can is the 200 x 56 (HB-142-31535-K032) and you need 4.75mm of spacers to make it work.


thanks for the quick reply. that certainly answers the question. an answer that suits me too. i already have that particular king can (currently on another 200x56 mcleod), so I think i have everything i need.

when you say 4.75mm of spacers, do you mean 4.75mm of additional spacers (over and above what the 210x55 shock has in it from the factory), or 4.75mm in total? Not sure if the metric shock also comes with that orange/red top out spacer in it, or how thick it is.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sclyde2 said:


> My frame has quite a progressive leverage curve. Are there king cans available for the metric shocks? I couldn't find any via googling. If not, will an imperial king can fit on a 210x55 mcleod? If so, which one? e.g. the one for the 200x56 shock, or the one for the 216x63 shock, or...? i already have a bunch of those 1.25mm spacers (got them from Dougal a while ago). Ideally, i am looking to re-size the shock to around 208x53.
> 
> I saw an earlier post of Dougal's on this in relation to using an imperial king can on a metric shock, but it was on a shorter size (quoted below).


Yes there are King Cans available. If you want to use an existing imperial king-can there are things to check.

1. McLeod air-cans have internal top threads, Mara has external threads. So don't go buying a Mara King-Can for your McLeod.
2. For the ones that do cross-over from imperial to metric you have a very complicated fitment table listing spacers that need to be installed to make it work.

I've got 1.25mm spacers I can use to space out some imperial cans to work on metrics: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html

I'm also expecting Manitou to make this a whole lot simpler in the future.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Yes there are King Cans available. If you want to use an existing imperial king-can there are things to check.
> 
> 1. McLeod air-cans have internal top threads, Mara has external threads. So don't go buying a Mara King-Can for your McLeod.
> 2. For the ones that do cross-over from imperial to metric you have a very complicated fitment table listing spacers that need to be installed to make it work.
> ...


I have a king can for an imperial 200x56 shock. Can you confirm springs comment above that this king can will fit on a 210x55 shock, and what spacers I need to install in it to get close to stock 210 e2e. Is it possible to send a link to the fitment table that you mention above? I have previously purchased 5 of those spacers from you.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sclyde2 said:


> I have a king can for an imperial 200x56 shock. Can you confirm springs comment above that this king can will fit on a 210x55 shock, and what spacers I need to install in it to get close to stock 210 e2e. Is it possible to send a link to the fitment table that you mention above? I have previously purchased 5 of those spacers from you.


The 200x56 Air Can alone (not complete kit) is P/N 183-31983-C105. To fit it on a 210x50/55mm McLeod requires 4.75mm of spacers and one top-out bumper.

4 of these make 5.0mm which is close enough for most of us: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/dealer/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

thanks for the confirmation


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Velodonata said:


> I don't think that means anything, just boilerplate. They all ship with standard bushings installed, I've seen plenty of them out of the box. I've swapped one for a Monarch before, same hardware worked fine. And the shock works much better.


This is good to know. I just ordered a McCleod to replace the Monarch on my son's bike. I think it will be a good upgrade.


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## ashwinearl (Jan 2, 2004)

Has anyone installed a Mcleod or Mara on a 2018+ Rocky Mountain, specifically an Altitude? It takes a 210x55 shock and I think uses 25mm x M8 shock hardware and needs bearing eyelets in the lower mount.

Is the King Can recommended for the leverage curve of Rocky Mountains? This would be an alternative to the DPX2 that is currently on it. 

I am 145lbs, and currently have 188PSI in the DPX2 with 5-6 clicks of low speed compression from closed.

Do any vendors offer services of installing shock hardware at time of purchase so it can be mounted once delivered?

thanks


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Dougal said:


> It's a bit more complex than that. But sit tight and all will be clarified.


Is there anything you can tell us at this point? I'm all ears


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

olibluegoat said:


> Trying to decide between the McLeod or a Cane Creek DB Air IL for my new Ibis Ripley V4. Anyone had any experince with both of these. And im talking about the newer Air IL not the old one that had major issues.


Did you find any comparisons on these two shocks? I suppose it would be frame specific, but I'm wondering the same thing for a Hightower LT. It's great to have all the tunability of the DB Air IL esp. if your suspension design is on the outer portions of the spectrum. The thing about the McLeod, is that it is super tunable but one needs to be able to take the damn thing apart and change valving instead of taking a hex wrench to it from the outside. Who has the time and all the required tools for that?! I have a ton of riding experience with the McLeod and it is far from perfect, but a very good shock indeed. Would love to hear how it compares with the CC though as I live in NC very near where they are made and it offers pretty much all the features I'm looking for.


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## DrPete (Jul 20, 2004)

So I'm looking for a new shock for my 2020 Stumpjumper ST because the Cane Creek DBAir IL is maxed out on pressure. Does anyone know how the required psi compares with shocks like the DBIL and Float DPS, and what the max psi is for the shock?

Shock is a 190x42.5 (but a 45mm stroke will work) and I'm 225-230lb RTR. At 300psi my CC is at about 28% sag.

Seems like the reviews for the McLeod are generally good but I don't want to find out that I'm above max psi on my bike.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

DrPete said:


> So I'm looking for a new shock for my 2020 Stumpjumper ST because the Cane Creek DBAir IL is maxed out on pressure. Does anyone know how the required psi compares with shocks like the DBIL and Float DPS, and what the max psi is for the shock?
> 
> Shock is a 190x42.5 (but a 45mm stroke will work) and I'm 225-230lb RTR. At 300psi my CC is at about 28% sag.
> 
> Seems like the reviews for the McLeod are generally good but I don't want to find out that I'm above max psi on my bike.


You will be fine, the McLeod typically requires much less air pressure than a DPS for the same amount of sag. From my experience I expect you will be easily under 200psi on a McLeod with standard can.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Hi guys,

I have just replaced a Monarch Debonair with a Mcleod on my Pole Evolink. I’m generally quite happy with the switch, but have a couple of issues/questions:

1. I have never used full travel. Are there any volume reducers I can remove to reduce progressivity, or do I need to get a King can?
2. The shock is not very sensitive off the top. Is this by design, or do I need to reset the neg chamber to increase neg pressure?

I’m 240ish all geared up - going from 300psi with the Monarch to 165psi with the Mcleod to achieve 30% sag is quite a change 

I haven’t read through the entire thread, so apologies if this has been answered before.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

langen said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have just replaced a Monarch Debonair with a Mcleod on my Pole Evolink. I'm generally quite happy with the switch, but have a couple of issues/questions:
> 
> ...


1. Get a King Can. This makes the stroke more linear and increases small bump compliance.
2. Always reset the negative when receiving a new shock. Periodically repeat this.
3. Enjoy your ride!


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Thanks!


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Mac1987 said:


> ...
> 2. Always reset the negative when receiving a new shock. Periodically repeat this.


I did this last night, with a noticeable improvement. Had to increase pressure by 15 psi to achieve the same sag as before.

How often do people reset the neg chamber?


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## DrPete (Jul 20, 2004)

Are there any non-manitou alternatives for mounting hardware? I ordered a McLeod for my Stumpjumper ST and I need M8x20 top and probably a bushing for the bottom, which is a bare eyelet. Thanks in advance.


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

DrPete said:


> Are there any non-manitou alternatives for mounting hardware? I ordered a McLeod for my Stumpjumper ST and I need M8x20 top and probably a bushing for the bottom, which is a bare eyelet. Thanks in advance.


RS hardware seems to usually work fine. Fox worked for me, but not everyone.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

DrPete said:


> Are there any non-manitou alternatives for mounting hardware? I ordered a McLeod for my Stumpjumper ST and I need M8x20 top and probably a bushing for the bottom, which is a bare eyelet. Thanks in advance.


I just installed a McLeod on my 2019 Stumpjumper ST. If yours is also a 2019 or 2020 ST with a Fox shock then this applies ...

You can reuse the existing Fox hardware for the top shock mount (is impossible to find a new Fox hardware kit 803-03-237 in-stock anywhere). You'll just need to buy 2 new Fox IGUS bushings (the two-piece beige colored flanged bushings pressed into the eyelet) for the top of the shock only. The lower eyelet does not use bushings; the flip chip for the lower mount is the same size as the eyelet without a bushing.

The first step is to press out the stock DU bushings from the McLeod (BOTH ends of the shock). Next press the new IGUS bushings into the top eyelet. Then install the shock using all your existing hardware.

Everything fit perfect with the metric McLeod.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kartracer said:


> Everything fit perfect with the metric McLeod.


For the love of god, I hope they have fixed this. It was way way off on many of these.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

RWC needle bearing fittings


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Jayem said:


> For the love of god, I hope they have fixed this. It was way way off on many of these.


I think they have, my oldest McLeod wasn't bad but the newer ones are better, really spot on. I guess I never had one of the way off ones, but I never had one older than 2017 production.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Velodonata said:


> I think they have, my oldest McLeod wasn't bad but the newer ones are better, really spot on. I guess I never had one of the way off ones, but I never had one older than 2017 production.


IME, with all the shocks/suspension bikes I've owned, it's an on/off thing. It's either there or it isn't. When it's there and you can feel it picking up the bike/actuating the rear suspension, it significantly destroys the suspension action. When it can't be felt there, it's a nothing. I say it like this because there are a few bikes where there was "slight" play, but then when you bolt everything up and the bolts compress or bend or whatnot, there's no play, but it usually has to be pretty minimal for this to happen and sometimes it's just temporary before the system starts to slow slop again. IME, slop of any kind destroys the rear end feel/absorption.


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## twodogsfighting (May 10, 2015)

Ah bugger. King can is just slightly too thick for my gt sensor. sadface.


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## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Looking for advice to stop my mcleod from knocking changingt from compression to rebound

I tried the ipa lever stop no dice, it even does it faintly in the second open position.... Are the shims sticking to the piston?


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I do believe it's impossible to stop the feint knocking, in fact, all the shimmed dampers knock slughtly that I've seen (RS and Fox too) the loud knocking is definitely fixable.


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## kartracer (Apr 10, 2015)

Dougal or Mullen ... how is the new just released Mara XC inline shock different from the McLeod metric shocks (internally or performance wise)? Externally they look nearly identical with the Mara having revised IPA and rebound adjusters; and the Mara is shown with a Trunnion option.

hayesbicycle.com/products/mara_z?variant=34530359017517


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## Kamao (Mar 31, 2013)

Just wondering, how good is this shock when stock for heavy riders?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Kamao said:


> Just wondering, how good is this shock when stock for heavy riders?


I'm 235 geared and it was the only solution to running too high of pressure. The Monarch that was on V1 Following required so much pressure for my weight it negated the way the suspension should feel. I was running 345psi in the Monarch I run 175 in my Mcleod. Bike feels much better, not as nervous or harsh.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Kamao said:


> Just wondering, how good is this shock when stock for heavy riders?


With the standard can, at 170lbs, I can't run more than about 85-90 PSI, or I don't get anywhere near full travel. The shock air spring should hold for you, but whether it's suitable for your bike's leverage curve (and your weight as far as the damping) is the real question. The damping and spring curve could be suitable, or way off.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Kamao said:


> Just wondering, how good is this shock when stock for heavy riders?


I depends upon the bike but Manitou tends to tune their forks and shocks to not blow through travel too easily. What kind of bike is it?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kartracer said:


> Dougal or Mullen ... how is the new just released Mara XC inline shock different from the McLeod metric shocks (internally or performance wise)? Externally they look nearly identical with the Mara having revised IPA and rebound adjusters; and the Mara is shown with a Trunnion option.
> 
> hayesbicycle.com/products/mara_z?variant=34530359017517


I haven't had a chance to ride it yet. But @Mullen119 has been.

As I understand it. Mara Inline is the new Metric McLeod with 5 years of updates and new ideas rolled in.
Imperial Mara, I don't know if this is getting branded as McLeod or not.

The trunnions get a new shaft head which has internal threads to take the same air-cans as the Mara Pro.

My bikes are all imperial (216x63mm) so I don't have the opportunity to test the metrics or trunnions.


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## Kamao (Mar 31, 2013)

Vespasianus said:


> I depends upon the bike but Manitou tends to tune their forks and shocks to not blow through travel too easily. What kind of bike is it?


Its SC Hightower V1.


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## DrPete (Jul 20, 2004)

Well, my McLeod finally arrived. Popped out both metal bushings and used Fox hardware on the top/bare eyelet on the bottom and install went fine.

For me, at 225lb RTR on my Stumpjumper ST, at 25% sag (firm for XCish riding with jump lines thrown in):

Cane Creek DBAir IL: 300+ psi (that’s the max and at 300 I get 28% sag)

Fox DPS Factory: 324 psi

McLeod: 210 psi. 😳

I have no idea what sorcery is at work here (larger piston surface area?) but it’s nice for a big boy to not have to max out air pressure. Looking forward to a ride on it!


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## Rivers2648 (Jan 8, 2019)

Can anyone share links on what spacers I would require to get a 190x50mm Mcleod down to 190x45mm?


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html

I'd check with him first whether these are the right spacers to install under the bottom-out bumper to keep eye-to-eye at 190. The description mentions install above the bumper and lowering both travel and eye-to-eye. 
Alternatively, a 200x56 might be lowered to 190x46 by installing 4 spacers above the bumper.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

AFAIK, there are 2 ways to use those spacers:
1. Reduce both e2e and stroke the same amount. E.g. reduce 200x56 by 5mm to 195x51. This is easy to do. Yep, under the top out bumper - even I have done exactly this.
2. Reduce the stroke. E.g. reduce 200x56 to 200x51. This is a significantly harder job, need to do a fair bit of shock disassembly to get those spacers in there.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

So here's one for those in the know...I was day drinking yesterday and purchased a 185x55 trunnion McLeod.* Can't find info even talking about a trunnion mcleod.* So what gives?

https://m.pinkbike.com/photo/18401329/

Sent from my SM-G960U using tiny.cc/Mtbr_android_app


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I was looking at that as well, but I couldn't figure out what bike I would put it on. 

Basically, Manitou will put together a trunnion Mcleod for you if you ask and are willing to wait.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bigkat273 said:


> So here's one for those in the know...I was day drinking yesterday and purchased a 185x55 trunnion McLeod.* Can't find info even talking about a trunnion mcleod.* So what gives?
> 
> https://m.pinkbike.com/photo/18401329/
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using tiny.cc/Mtbr_android_app


Random OEM that snuck out the door before the Mara stickers arrived?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rivers2648 said:


> Can anyone share links on what spacers I would require to get a 190x50mm Mcleod down to 190x45mm?


You need to fit a 5mm shaft spacer. I haven't seen any source for them. We machine them up as required.
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/travel-spacer-5-mm-shockcraft.html


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

TylerVernon said:


> I was looking at that as well, but I couldn't figure out what bike I would put it on.
> 
> Basically, Manitou will put together a trunnion Mcleod for you if you ask and are willing to wait.


Pretty much what the seller said when I asked today.* Custom order which is good for me.

Sent from my SM-G960U using tiny.cc/Mtbr_android_app


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Dougal said:


> You need to fit a 5mm shaft spacer.* I haven't seen any source for them.* We machine them up as required.
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/travel-spacer-5-mm-shockcraft.html


I'm assuming full rebuild and the spacer slips over the piston?* I'll need one of these for the custom mcleod/mara.

Sent from my SM-G960U using tiny.cc/Mtbr_android_app


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## Santa Clauz (May 20, 2005)

langen said:


> I did this last night, with a noticeable improvement. Had to increase pressure by 15 psi to achieve the same sag as before.
> 
> How often do people reset the neg chamber?


Just got a McLeod today for my Tallboy V4, I also made sure to get an IFP tool. So what's the deal with resetting the negative chamber? I watched the video Manitou put on YouTube about the IFP, they show pumping it back up to 300 psi. Wondering what you should do with it before even mounting it to my bike...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Santa Clauz said:


> Just got a McLeod today for my Tallboy V4, I also made sure to get an IFP tool. So what's the deal with resetting the negative chamber? I watched the video Manitou put on YouTube about the IFP, they show pumping it back up to 300 psi. Wondering what you should do with it before even mounting it to my bike...


Take the air-can off, put it back on and you're done. It uses trapped air for negative so removing and reinstalling fixes that.


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## Santa Clauz (May 20, 2005)

Ok, so I ordered a McLeod for my Tallboy 4, I also ordered a king can from Hayes directly because I believe after reading this thread that it would fit my Tallboys leverage curve well. 

My question is, do I want to run the can In the large or intermediate volume setting. I attached a photo of the suspension curve of the new Tallboy 4 for anyone that isn’t familiar.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Looks to me like the large setting would be where I'd start.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Hi friends, I have been thinking of short-shocking my bike and have been considering the mcleod and am wondering if you can answer some questions. Currently I am running a fox float x2 which I am very happy with, but want to reduce the travel of the bike. The bike will end up with a "u" shaped leverage curve around 2.4:1 with the shorter travel shock. Ideally, I need a 190x45mm shock.

How well does the negative spring in this shock work? Is it reasonably supple off the top?

Can a 190x50mm shock be travel-reduced by running a split spacer under the bottom out bumper on the shock shaft (as is typically possible on Fox and RS shocks)? Or is it necessary to find a 190x45?


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## upsha (Jun 1, 2017)

sandwich said:


> Hi friends, I have been thinking of short-shocking my bike and have been considering the mcleod and am wondering if you can answer some questions. Currently I am running a fox float x2 which I am very happy with, but want to reduce the travel of the bike. The bike will end up with a "u" shaped leverage curve around 2.4:1 with the shorter travel shock. Ideally, I need a 190x45mm shock.
> 
> How well does the negative spring in this shock work? Is it reasonably supple off the top?
> 
> Can a 190x50mm shock be travel-reduced by running a split spacer under the bottom out bumper on the shock shaft (as is typically possible on Fox and RS shocks)? Or is it necessary to find a 190x45?


Putting spacer attached will not only reduce stroke, but also eye-to-eye, making your 190x50 a 185x45.

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html

Alternatively, you can just buy a metric 190x45. Metric Mara inline gets the rubber top IFP, which should further improve initial plushness. This feature is not available on either McLeod or empirical Mara inline.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

upsha said:


> Putting spacer attached will not only reduce stroke, but also eye-to-eye, making your 190x50 a 185x45.
> 
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mcleod-travel-spacer-28-x-39-x-1-25-mm-shockcraft.html
> 
> Alternatively, you can just buy a metric 190x45. Metric Mara inline gets the rubber top IFP, which should further improve initial plushness. This feature is not available on either McLeod or empirical Mara inline.


https://forums.mtbr.com/27-5/650b-shock-bottom-out-shim-seat-tube-clearance-623853.html

this is more of what I am thinking of.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

it is possible to reduce the shock stroke without reducing the e2e. yes, you'd put a spacer under the bottom out bumper. to do this though, would require quite a bit of shock disassembly (and is apparently not easy). i don't know about split spacers.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

sclyde2 said:


> it is possible to reduce the shock stroke without reducing the e2e. yes, you'd put a spacer under the bottom out bumper. to do this though, would require quite a bit of shock disassembly (and is apparently not easy). i don't know about split spacers.


Spacer under bottom out bumper would for sure reduce e2e.

Edit: I'm wrong, please see below.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

croakies said:


> Spacer under bottom out bumper would for sure reduce e2e
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Are we talking about the red bumper on the damper body or the black bumper on the damper shaft up near the top of the air can?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

you're mistaking things dude, top out bumper lowers e2e and stroke, bottom bumper lowers the stroke only.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

croakies said:


> Spacer under bottom out bumper would for sure reduce e2e
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


No it would not. Spacer under top out bumper would reduce e2e.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Ahh you're right, I am mistaken. 

Spacer under red foam on outer damper body is topout spacer and would decrease stroke and e2e

Black rubber oring on damper shaft is bottom out and would decrease stroke. Not e2e

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## dk76 (Apr 5, 2020)

Debating between Mcleod and RT3 tuned by Avy (or just stick with factory RT3).

Shock will go on 110mm rear travel Devinci Atlas 29. Price-wise, RT3 with tune will cost me about $75 more than Mcleod and IFP 3-in-1 tool, plus maintenance seems to be aeaier on RS.

I don't fiddle too much with the compression settings, prefer set-and-forget. Even RT3 will be ridden 99% of time in Trail mode, just like Mcleod. So no need for remote control.

Need your input guys


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

dk76 said:


> Debating between Mcleod and RT3 tuned by Avy (or just stick with factory RT3).
> 
> Shock will go on 110mm rear travel Devinci Atlas 29. Price-wise, RT3 with tune will cost me about $75 more than Mcleod and IFP 3-in-1 tool, plus maintenance seems to be aeaier on RS.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I can't speak to the RT3 but FWIW I can tell you, on my 2018 Pivot Mach 429 Trail, I replaced a Fox DPS with the Avalanche SSD/HSB mod with a Mcleod and can confidently say the Mcleod is a superior performer in all respects. I'm pretty sure I've made a few posts in this thread providing more detail about the comparison.


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## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

dk76 said:


> Debating between Mcleod and RT3 tuned by Avy (or just stick with factory RT3).
> 
> Shock will go on 110mm rear travel Devinci Atlas 29. Price-wise, RT3 with tune will cost me about $75 more than Mcleod and IFP 3-in-1 tool, plus maintenance seems to be aeaier on RS.
> 
> ...


I put a McLeod on my Evolink 158 to replace RT3 that was on it stock. Was a bit dubious due to its extremely reasonable price. Have been completely impressed by its performance. Rides really well on chunky XC trails and was very composed on some recent DH riding I did.
I'm actually very impressed how it makes my bike climb.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

dk76 said:


> Debating between Mcleod and RT3 tuned by Avy (or just stick with factory RT3).
> 
> Shock will go on 110mm rear travel Devinci Atlas 29. Price-wise, RT3 with tune will cost me about $75 more than Mcleod and IFP 3-in-1 tool, plus maintenance seems to be aeaier on RS.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind, you may need new hardware and different bushings for the McLeod. I was able to use fox hardware in my Monarch, but not in my McLeod. While theoretically it should "bolt right up", it doesn't in many cases. The other issue is the King Can, a lot of our bikes do not work right with the standard low-volume can on the McLeod (mine doesn't for sure), so the cost may or may not really be what you are estimating.

The Avy RCT3 is a different beast than most, it turns the 3-position lever into a LSC adjuster, except that the "firmer" you run it, the easier it blows off. It's got miles of support and it doesn't get overwhelmed. I run it in the firmest setting pretty much all the time. I can run it very firm and it's not a jackhammer. It rides better though the rough choppy on the firmest setting. There is no wallow-diving through travel here. I'd think this would match up great with that kind of bike, I sort of wish I had the RCT3 for my lower-travel bike as well. I use the Avy RCT3 mainly as a backup right now though, since I have a tuned coil shock for the bike and coil is just infinitely better than any air shock.

In summary, the McLeod is more of a chance, a chance that the air spring will match your leverage curve and the damping will match the bike and rider. Mine (McLeod) is a turd compared to my Monarch+ RCT3, but your results may vary. The stock monarch had to run something like 40% sag to get any decent compliance and was pretty poor. After the mod it was more like 30%.


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## dk76 (Apr 5, 2020)

Hey Jayem,

Thank you for the fast reply. Yes, I read your feedback on the Mcleod forum. Hardware does seem to be an issue, solution would be to get needle bearings kit from EnduroFork Seals, but it's more $$ to be spent. Also my shock is 165x38, so no King Can available for me. I also don't cherish the idea of "resetting" negative spring one or twice a year, seems like an engineering issue. The only reason I was/am considering Mcleod is its nutability (aka tunability, lol, nice typo).


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## dk76 (Apr 5, 2020)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Unfortunately I can't speak to the RT3 but FWIW I can tell you, on my 2018 Pivot Mach 429 Trail, I replaced a Fox DPS with the Avalanche SSD/HSB mod with a Mcleod and can confidently say the Mcleod is a superior performer in all respects. I'm pretty sure I've made a few posts in this thread providing more detail about the comparison.


I'll do search on this forum for your posts (if it's possible) and read up on your experience, thank you so much!


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

dk76 said:


> Debating between Mcleod and RT3 tuned by Avy (or just stick with factory RT3).
> 
> Shock will go on 110mm rear travel Devinci Atlas 29. Price-wise, RT3 with tune will cost me about $75 more than Mcleod and IFP 3-in-1 tool, plus maintenance seems to be aeaier on RS.
> 
> ...


The most similar bike I have put one on is a 115mm travel Smuggler, it worked great right out of the box with the normal can. Replaced a Monarch. I used a RWC needle bearing on the upper pivot but the stock hardware would have been fine. I know some people have had problems with hardware fit in the past but every recent McLeod I have seen has been an easy swap and a good fit as delivered. Compared to Fox or RS I find it easier to setup and service, and needing to occasionally reset the air can for negative air is simple and keeps you honest on maintenance. You shouldn't need the IFP tool anytime soon, just some Slickolium for the air can. I don't know how heavy you are, but the McLeod is especially nice for big guys because it's easier to get a reasonable setup without too much sag or running very high pressure.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Ya may wanna recheck your hardware fitting solutions - seems the Enduro needle kit doesn't fit particular well on mcleod - best stock solution is use Manitou hardware, best custom solution is get custom sized pins machined up ( I know Dougal does that for all brands)

Regarding neg chamber reset it's literally a 5 minute job. Takes me longer to decide which flavor of beer to have when I start the job.



dk76 said:


> Hey Jayem,
> 
> Thank you for the fast reply. Yes, I read your feedback on the Mcleod forum. Hardware does seem to be an issue, solution would be to get needle bearings kit from EnduroFork Seals, but it's more $$ to be spent. Also my shock is 165x38, so no King Can available for me. I also don't cherish the idea of "resetting" negative spring one or twice a year, seems like an engineering issue. The only reason I was/am considering Mcleod is its nutability (aka tunability, lol, nice typo).


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## dk76 (Apr 5, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> The most similar bike I have put one on is a 115mm travel Smuggler, it worked great right out of the box with the normal can. Replaced a Monarch. I used a RWC needle bearing on the upper pivot but the stock hardware would have been fine. I know some people have had problems with hardware fit in the past but every recent McLeod I have seen has been an easy swap and a good fit as delivered. Compared to Fox or RS I find it easier to setup and service, and needing to occasionally reset the air can for negative air is simple and keeps you honest on maintenance. You shouldn't need the IFP tool anytime soon, just some Slickolium for the air can. I don't know how heavy you are, but the McLeod is especially nice for big guys because it's easier to get a reasonable setup without too much sag or running very high pressure.


Thanks for the input! So many different opinions....but this is what I needed. I'm 165 out-of-the-shower. Ride fairly fast and aggressive singletrack with small roots and rocks. Do occasional small jumps, not more than 1ft. I have Manitou Machete PRO up front, tuned it using this forum and Hayes support. Like it, but not in love.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

dk76 said:


> Thanks for the input! So many different opinions....but this is what I needed. I'm 165 out-of-the-shower. Ride fairly fast and aggressive singletrack with small roots and rocks. Do occasional small jumps, not more than 1ft. I have Manitou Machete PRO up front, tuned it using this forum and Hayes support. Like it, but not in love.


Get the Mcelod with the Enduro needle bearing for top mount. I have been on this setup on my 2013 Devinci Atlas for over three years and works great on this bike. The leverage curve on the Atlas is almost flat and the shock works really well on this bike, big improvement over the RT3.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

dk76 said:


> Debating between Mcleod and RT3 tuned by Avy (or just stick with factory RT3).
> 
> Shock will go on 110mm rear travel Devinci Atlas 29. Price-wise, RT3 with tune will cost me about $75 more than Mcleod and IFP 3-in-1 tool, plus maintenance seems to be aeaier on RS.
> 
> ...


If you do your own shock maintenance then cheapest way is to retune your RT3.

First thing you need to match HSR tune to your weight. At your weight you probably need L or M tune. You can do it by pulling some shims from rebound stack.

Secondly get rid of preload on the main compression stack (and also lose lockout).

I have posted details here: https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=14635019

You might need to experiment little bit.

If you consider Avy tuning then you probably do not care about lockout anyway. I have Smuggler and tried both tuned RT3 and McLeod on it. I also tried to change rebound on McLeod, but RT3 still felt better and because of the mounting hardware issues I gave up on McLeod after spending about 1/3 of the shock cost on mounting hardware.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Jayem said:


> In summary, the McLeod is more of a chance, a chance that the air spring will match your leverage curve and the damping will match the bike and rider. Mine (McLeod) is a turd compared to my Monarch+ RCT3, but your results may vary. The stock monarch had to run something like 40% sag to get any decent compliance and was pretty poor. After the mod it was more like 30%.


Which bike was this, your Pivot?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TylerVernon said:


> Which bike was this, your Pivot?


Well, sort of, the Monarch is on a different bike, but I tried the McLeod on the pivot extensively. Due to it working so much better, I've used the modded Monarch a whole lot more.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Interesting. I'm using a Mcleod on a 2019 Mach 6 right now. The LR is much more progressive than the basically linear 429SL. It feels about the same as the DPX2 that came with the bike, but it's lighter, has a better platform adjust, and gives more room for a bottle.


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## dk76 (Apr 5, 2020)

In2falling said:


> Get the Mcelod with the Enduro needle bearing for top mount. I have been on this setup on my 2013 Devinci Atlas for over three years and works great on this bike. The leverage curve on the Atlas is almost flat and the shock works really well on this bike, big improvement over the RT3.


Finally a rider with tha same bike!!! Thank you, I needed THIS input.


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## dk76 (Apr 5, 2020)

arnea said:


> If you do your own shock maintenance then cheapest way is to retune your RT3.
> 
> First thing you need to match HSR tune to your weight. At your weight you probably need L or M tune. You can do it by pulling some shims from rebound stack.
> 
> ...


I can get practically NEW 2020 RT3 for $175. Didn't know I can tune it.... And considering I don't have to frequently re-set neg chamber in it, I'll probably go that route. Mcleod can be purchased at any time, so I guess I'll play with RT3 first. Also waiting on response from [email protected]


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## Mr Smith PDX (Oct 9, 2011)

Does anybody know who in the US can replace all the seals in my McLeod?
I got it for dirt cheap of off eBay last year ($60!) but I am pretty sure it is leaking fluid as I keep having to wipe oil off the bottom of the shock (I didn't expect it to be in perfect shape for that ridiculous price... or it was stolen). Full rebuild looks WAY beyond my skills and tools. My brother didn't come visit from Auckland this yer due to Covid so I couldn't make him my courier to New Zealand for Dougal to fix it.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Mr Smith PDX said:


> Does anybody know who in the US can replace all the seals in my McLeod?
> I got it for dirt cheap of off eBay last year ($60!) but I am pretty sure it is leaking fluid as I keep having to wipe oil off the bottom of the shock (I didn't expect it to be in perfect shape for that ridiculous price... or it was stolen). Full rebuild looks WAY beyond my skills and tools. My brother didn't come visit from Auckland this yer due to Covid so I couldn't make him my courier to New Zealand for Dougal to fix it.


That does not sound like a simple air can seal fix but rather something more. Almost would require a complete rebuild.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Mr Smith PDX said:


> Does anybody know who in the US can replace all the seals in my McLeod?
> I got it for dirt cheap of off eBay last year ($60!) but I am pretty sure it is leaking fluid as I keep having to wipe oil off the bottom of the shock (I didn't expect it to be in perfect shape for that ridiculous price... or it was stolen). Full rebuild looks WAY beyond my skills and tools. My brother didn't come visit from Auckland this yer due to Covid so I couldn't make him my courier to New Zealand for Dougal to fix it.





Vespasianus said:


> That does not sound like a simple air can seal fix but rather something more. Almost would require a complete rebuild.


I'd kind of like to see a picture of it to see how much fluid you're talking about before jumping to any conclusions.

Whenever I pop off the air can to reset the negative air chamber on mine I take the opportunity to apply a good layer of lube (either Judy Butter or Moly-Cote 55) to the o-rings and wiper seal to keep it running smoothly. This results in a residual layer of lube being left on the lower shaft after each use and for the first few rides it gets pretty wet. Because it attracts dust I like to take a minute to wipe it off after each ride. In fact, when I stop seeing the layer of lube on the lower shaft I use that as a reminder to reset the air can and do it all again.


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## Mr Smith PDX (Oct 9, 2011)

Unfortunately, after posting this I took it off of my bike. Figured I would try to open up the air can just to see what was going on inside. I didn't take a picture, although I can later, and it looks like there is A LOT of grease inside the air can. So it could just be that is being force out past the dust seal. Maybe a simple air can service and clean out of the mountain of grease will do the trick. The air can service looks easy and the seal kit is only $22. I'd still only be $82 in if I try the air can service.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Maybe someone can save me from needing to reopen my shock I just had torn completely apart... My ifp is shaped like a piston head with a hollow cavity on one side vs the standard flatish disc (see my cool artwork). Im 99% sure it came out with the hollow facing the damper and that's how I reinstalled it but now I'm second guessing myself. Anyone know for sure?









Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bigkat273 said:


> Maybe someone can save me from needing to reopen my shock I just had torn completely apart... My ifp is shaped like a piston head with a hollow cavity on one side vs the standard flatish disc (see my cool artwork). Im 99% sure it came out with the hollow facing the damper and that's how I reinstalled it but now I'm second guessing myself. Anyone know for sure?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hollow side should be on the air side to increase IFP air volume as much as possible (to prevent excessive ramp up and temperature effects)


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Well balls. Ok rebuild number 2 tonight then. Thanks Mullen.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Finally pulled the trigger on a mcleod to replace my cc il and I just got an email from r2-bike stating their supplier is sold out and that the shock is out of production. Damn it.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

they just changed the name. its a Mara now.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Vegard said:


> Finally pulled the trigger on a mcleod to replace my cc il and I just got an email from r2-bike stating their supplier is sold out and that the shock is out of production. Damn it.


Yeah all the metric sizes are replaced by the Mara IL, which is basically an updated and improved McLeod. I got one directly from Hayes.


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

A long overdue update on my knocking issues. I replaced the beige fox eyelet flanged bushings (postal service took forever) and the knocking is gone (they were 4 years old). I can't even measure any difference between the old and the new ones with my calipers.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Kadath said:


> A long overdue update on my knocking issues. I replaced the beige fox eyelet flanged bushings (postal service took forever) and the knocking is gone (they were 4 years old). I can't even measure any difference between the old and the new ones with my calipers.


Mine was knocking last ride then I remembered the last time I reset my new chamber it was probably 15c cooler the the conditions I was recently riding in. Did a 5 minute reset and I don't need new hardware!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

So I finally had a good ride on the McLeod.

I had put it on the back-burner since I had gotten another DPS for racing with a lockout. I was hopeful that the King Can would fix the issues, since the pressure I was having to run was in the 80-90psi range and still not getting full travel. After the hardware fiasco and trying to find manitou hardware that would not knock/was tight, I just shelved the shock for a while. 

When it made sense, I ordered a King Can with some other stuff.

Did a ride a few days ago, seemed to show promise, but my fork was not matching it at all. 

After re-tuning my fork and heading out today, it was the best ride I'd had on this bike in a while. The rear shock was sucking up most of the bumps, providing decent support, generally working pretty well. The King Can seems to have been the necessary change. I'm not sure why it doesn't just come as standard, as the small-volume can doesn't seem like it'd many modern bikes. The Pivot already had a fairly small-volume Fox on it and the Manitou was even less volume and most bikes these days are using larger volume air shocks, not smaller. It also adds significant weight to a shock that was already heavier than the competition. Not a huge problem, although I initially got the shock to have something with a lockout for races, give the weight of the remote+shock, I'll just run my DPS with lockout for most races, but now at least I would probably this on for more gravity-orientated XC races. We did one a few weeks back and it would have been interesting to be running this tune, although I won, I have to wonder how much better it would have been. There's still the issue of the non-indexed adjuster too, given that this is a shock mainly intended as an aftermarket item, it's ridiculous given how many positions/orientations and configurations this shock may be mounted in, many of which will limit access to the adjuster. It's annoying and hopefully something that's eventually addressed. I'm at least happy it works pretty decent now and seems to be working as advertised previously and reported by other riders. I was able to ride so much faster today with the suspension working well, it was a blast. It's amazing how much more speed you can pick up when the bike is in control and not pitching/rebounding/bouncing, etc.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Jayem, that's a good write up. I replaced my Fox DPX2 with a McLeod on my Ripmo. It is much better than the DPX2, but maybe I should try the King Can? The DPX2 was harsh in chunky sections. The Fox Factory 36 is great. Like you said, a balanced suspension gives you speed.

Which Pivot do you ride?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Prophet Julio said:


> Jayem, that's a good write up. I replaced my Fox DPX2 with a McLeod on my Ripmo. It is much better than the DPX2, but maybe I should try the King Can? The DPX2 was harsh in chunky sections. The Fox Factory 36 is great. Like you said, a balanced suspension gives you speed.
> 
> Which Pivot do you ride?


It's my XC rig, a Pivot 429SL. The problem was fairly obvious though, given that I couldn't use above about 90 psi in the rear shock (at 170lbs riding weight. That's just a wildly low PSI that doesn't correspond with the original shock or anything else, so that was an obvious red flag that I probably needed more volume. If you are close to your normal PSI using the McLeod, you are probably fine.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Dude you don't look at psi for checking if your shock fits well, it's affected by way too many variables, you check if you are able to use all travel at the proper sag or thereabouts, for example I had to use 40% sag to be even close to using full travel, I knew I needed a king can, on king can I can use proper 30% (for my frame) and use full travel on large enough hits, it's more stable too.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Could a 200x56 McLeod be be reduced in travel (parts swap?) to 165x38? (2012 Giant Anthem).
Would it be economic?
Dougal?


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

No. If you reduce the eye to eye by 35mm, you will only have 21mm of stroke left.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

How bout using a 200x56 in place of a 210x55 and put the flipchip in High position?

Crickets...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Prophet Julio said:


> No. If you reduce the eye to eye by 35mm, you will only have 21mm of stroke left.


Yeah, and parts swapping would leave me with the shim stack as about the only original bit left


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

*Leaking air?*

I bought a new Mcleod a few months ago and installed it on a dw bike. I weigh about 140 lbs and have found that 95 psi works best for me. The shock is amazing. Performs much better than the Fox DPS it replaced. Only one problem...it slowly loses air pressure. Over the course of a week, it will lose approx 10 psi. Any suggestions?


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

aski said:


> I bought a new Mcleod a few months ago and installed it on a dw bike. I weigh about 140 lbs and have found that 95 psi works best for me. The shock is amazing. Performs much better than the Fox DPS it replaced. Only one problem...it slowly loses air pressure. Over the course of a week, it will lose approx 10 psi. Any suggestions?


how are you measuring the air lost? 
(pressure drops a bit when connecting the pump since same amount of air now fills the shock & pump hose)


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

aski said:


> I bought a new Mcleod a few months ago and installed it on a dw bike. I weigh about 140 lbs and have found that 95 psi works best for me. The shock is amazing. Performs much better than the Fox DPS it replaced. Only one problem...it slowly loses air pressure. Over the course of a week, it will lose approx 10 psi. Any suggestions?


Let the air out, unscrew air can (don't need to take all the way off) and then put some silicone grease on the air can threads and air can rubber seal. Should fix it.


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

In2falling said:


> Let the air out, unscrew air can (don't need to take all the way off) and then put some silicone grease on the air can threads and air can rubber seal. Should fix it.


This is a good idea. Just might do the trick. Thanks.


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## Mr Smith PDX (Oct 9, 2011)

*The inside of my air can*

I posted a while back about my "leaking" Mcleod. I needed to use the bike so I put the old shock back on and went ahead and opened up the air can on the Mcleod. Here is a pic:







It looks like there is A LOT of grease down inside. Perhaps teh excess grease is just being forced out and everything is fine. The shock worked when I had it on the bike.

Should I just get the air seal kit and go for it?

Also, all of you that are rebuilding shim stacks etc, I assume you all didn't invest in all the tools in this video:



and taking the shock apart is possible for people with a modicum of mechanical skills.

Thanks for any information.


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## biffhamilton (Jun 15, 2009)

Can anyone tell me if this shock will work with a rock shock twist lock?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

So the more I ride it, the more I'm convinced the HSR is too heavy. The shock seems to perform best with significant rebound, more than 3/4 turn, but it still ends up harsh on 2nd or more impacts due to not being able to rebound fast enough. Depending on how square and hard the impacts are, it sometimes works ok for some small chattery roots, but for bigger roots or things it gets pretty harsh on the 2nd impact or more. It only seems to be "too much" rebound when I get to more than about 1/1/4 or so turns, but at the lesser amounts it's fairly harsh everywhere. It's still way better than my initial rides with the old can, but it doesn't seem to do very well outside of smoother trails with smaller hits. I might go for a revalve over the fall/winter.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Jayem said:


> So the more I ride it, the more I'm convinced the HSR is too heavy. The shock seems to perform best with significant rebound, more than 3/4 turn, but it still ends up harsh on 2nd or more impacts due to not being able to rebound fast enough. Depending on how square and hard the impacts are, it sometimes works ok for some small chattery roots, but for bigger roots or things it gets pretty harsh on the 2nd impact or more. It only seems to be "too much" rebound when I get to more than about 1/1/4 or so turns, but at the lesser amounts it's fairly harsh everywhere. It's still way better than my initial rides with the old can, but it doesn't seem to do very well outside of smoother trails with smaller hits. I might go for a revalve over the fall/winter.


Pretty much what I found too. The McLeod was excellent on any single impact but any chatter or stutter bumps when the shock needed to recover quickly it became quite harsh, almost like a locked out shock and grip reduced markedly. I couldn't tune it out with the dials and requested different pistons and shims from Hayes but all I got was promises that they would send the stuff out to revalve but it never eventuated so in the end I got fed up waiting and sold the shock. Shame because it has potential for sure.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> Pretty much what I found too. The McLeod was excellent on any single impact but any chatter or stutter bumps when the shock needed to recover quickly it became quite harsh, almost like a locked out shock and grip reduced markedly. I couldn't tune it out with the dials and requested different pistons and shims from Hayes but all I got was promises that they would send the stuff out to revalve but it never eventuated so in the end I got fed up waiting and sold the shock. Shame because it has potential for sure.


That's definitely the rebound tune. I've softened it in every McLeod I've tuned with excellent results.
The last one I ran was 8x15x0.1mm shims (6) with an 8x10x0.2 on top. Huge improvement that turned it into the little shock that could take a lot of punishment.

I had to run better oil (Shockcraft Hot Pink, VI 405) to deal with the heat as this thing got hot enough you didn't want to touch it at times.

It'll be interesting to see what the Mara Inline comes with. I've been on Mara Pro since.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

springs said:


> Pretty much what I found too. The McLeod was excellent on any single impact but any chatter or stutter bumps when the shock needed to recover quickly it became quite harsh, almost like a locked out shock and grip reduced markedly. I couldn't tune it out with the dials and requested different pistons and shims from Hayes but all I got was promises that they would send the stuff out to revalve but it never eventuated so in the end I got fed up waiting and sold the shock. Shame because it has potential for sure.


Yeah, it's such that it may not be noticed in some trail-networks, or at least rarely so, like with lots of smaller chattery and smoother bumps, but in others it is much more noticeable IME. I was trying to experiment with the rebound today to see if I could get the "knee" to move, but while there was some improvement, HSR required is a function of the spring force and as such it is going to vary significantly from rider to rider. That's why many products end up going mainly with LSR to control it and sacrificing chassis control, since it's just not possible to cover more than a small range with the HSR, so the McLeod does seem to be prioritizing chassis control, which is good, but it's just too idealistic to cover more than a narrow band IMO. I'll probably play with the shims at some point. It's at least to the point where I can use it in places.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> That's definitely the rebound tune. I've softened it in every McLeod I've tuned with excellent results.
> The last one I ran was 8x15x0.1mm shims (6) with an 8x10x0.2 on top. Huge improvement that turned it into the little shock that could take a lot of punishment.
> 
> I had to run better oil (Shockcraft Hot Pink, VI 405) to deal with the heat as this thing got hot enough you didn't want to touch it at times.
> ...


Is the IFP air adapter tool the same as my old marzocchi air adapter? The head kind of looks the same.


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## neb (Aug 12, 2008)

Have you guys read the McLeod shim tuning thread? There's loads of good info there about the different setups.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

biffhamilton said:


> Can anyone tell me if this shock will work with a rock shock twist lock?


The Mcleod linear cable pull is 19mm.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Vespasianus said:


> Yeah, I have two Mcleod's - one on a dw linked aluminum 5-spot and one on a dw linked carbon IBIS Ripley. The only time I hear a knocking sound is when the can needs to be reset (top-out noise).


How do you like it on your 5-Spot? Considering one for my Burner.


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## Vicvar (Aug 7, 2020)

*Ifp mcleod*

Hola amigos soy nuevo en este foro, necesito me ayuden siento que mi mcleod no bloquea lo suficiente, mi duda es sera la poca presión de válvula IFP o si alguien sabe cual sección interna hace esta función para revisar si tendra alguna falla, gracias por su ayuda.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

6thElement said:


> How do you like it on your 5-Spot? Considering one for my Burner.


Works very, very well. A much more active shock that does 90% of the ride better than the Fox unit it replaced. At moderate speeds (13-15 MPH) on rough trail, the Fox unit just felt constipated and dead. The Mcleod just made those sections smooth. I should also note that I used the king can on mine. I also have one on my IBIS Ripley as well.

I ordered from DIRT Merchant and the price was great and I had him install the reducers. I originally used FOX reducers and for the first couple of replacements, FOX units were fine. Now the new ones are loose, so I order the specific "loose" bushings and everything is fine again (https://www.fanatikbike.com/product...MIur7G3pvr5gIVSdbACh0IGQwwEAQYAiABEgLFNfD_BwE).

For my Mcleod, I had him install the Manitou reducers and have never had an issue. Would highly recommend DIRT Merchant as well.


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## NOS_ATX (Jul 8, 2020)

*MY21 McLeod?*

The imperial McLeod is almost sold out on Manitou website. Does anyone know the story here? I heard something about MY21 McLeod (Mara style knobs and updated internal?) but not sure if it is true.

Thanks!


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## bouwpakket (Dec 24, 2011)

Velodonata said:


> Yeah all the metric sizes are replaced by the Mara IL, which is basically an updated and improved McLeod. I got one directly from Hayes.


Is the Mara worth the price difference? It looks like I can still get a Mcleod for € 230. The Mara is going to be offered for € 450


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

bouwpakket said:


> Is the Mara worth the price difference? It looks like I can still get a Mcleod for € 230. The Mara is going to be offered for € 450


Probably not if you can find a good deal on a McLeod. The differences are not huge, the Mara IL is an update more than a redesign.


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## Rivers2648 (Jan 8, 2019)

bouwpakket said:


> Is the Mara worth the price difference? It looks like I can still get a Mcleod for € 230. The Mara is going to be offered for € 450


I have the same query, saw some earlier post saying that the stock rebound shims don't work too well so am not entirely sure if going from a Fox 2020 DPS to this would be an upgrade or to just bite the bullet and get the Mara IL?


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## Mac1987 (Apr 22, 2012)

Rivers2648 said:


> I have the same query, saw some earlier post saying that the stock rebound shims don't work too well so am not entirely sure if going from a Fox 2020 DPS to this would be an upgrade or to just bite the bullet and get the Mara IL?


DPS to Mcleod is a HUGE upgrade in my opinion. Better support, (much) better small bump compliance and (much) better square edge and repeated hit performance. I paid €180 for my McLeod but knowing how big the difference is, I'd happily have paid €400. Also, it might be cheaper to let someone change the shims than to pay the difference for the Mara. However, the Mara is probably also a safe option.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Mac1987 said:


> DPS to Mcleod is a HUGE upgrade in my opinion. Better support, (much) better small bump compliance and (much) better square edge and repeated hit performance. I paid €180 for my McLeod but knowing how big the difference is, I'd happily have paid €400. Also, it might be cheaper to let someone change the shims than to pay the difference for the Mara. However, the Mara is probably also a safe option.


I don't agree with this. It's russian roulette whether the stock damping, air can and hardware will work. If not, you start spending a lot of money. Even if the shock is cheap, the King Can is not, you might need the IFP tool, shims and other tools to work on it (assuming you have the technical ability, not everyone does), and so on. Mine is getting to where it's working decent, but it's been a long journey and stock, it was much worse than the DPS, any of em (I have two). There are other quirks and features, like very poor remote if you are thinking about a remote, or the spinning rebound knob. As a predominately aftermarket shock, it's good that it can be set up in many ways, fairly easily bled and modified, but this is not for 95% of riders, they just don't have the technical expertise and ability to take apart and bleed shocks. You can say all over how "easy" it is, but changing a BB or bleeding brakes is not "easy" for a lot of riders and this is generally a higher level of mechanical work. So you could very well be paying 400 or more, depending on what aftermarket stuff you need. If you know the correct DPS configuration for your bike (tune information in addition to the correct size/stroke and air can), that is probably a much more sure-shot. If you are just buying an aftermarket DPS that does NOT match the tune for your bike, then you might as well buy the Mcleod, since both cases are randomly hoping it'll match up.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

I’m going to highly recommend the McLeod to anyone running an ibis Ripley V4. For me the McLeod is better on the Ripley V4 in every way when compared to the Fox Factory DPS. I’m a lightweight on an XL so no traction tune. The DPS would blow through the stroke at speed in chunk when really pushing the bike. This would make the bike unpredictable and over 5 weeks time I couldn’t get the DPS to perform. 

First ride with the McLeod and it’s an absolute game changer for this bike. The quality of the mid-stroke support and rebound damping is hands down better on the McLeod than the DPS on the Ripley v4. I Can finally verify what I have known all along. The DPS is holding the Ripley V4 back on high speed descents. Almost every single review you read of the Ripley V4 comments about how the bike feels like it riding on eggshells in the rough. Or you can’t quite push it as hard as other bikes of similar travel on the downs. It’s the stock rear shock that is causing this feeling. So happy I made the switch!


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

The McLeod works better on the Ripmo than the stock DPX2 in my experience. I ditched the DPX2 at 400 miles. It never felt right all the time. Maybe it was my inability to get the many adjustments right, but it didn't seem to jive with the chunky stuff no matter what I did. The McLeod has been great for the last 2,000 miles. Air, Rebound, Compression. Simple.


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## tomvanhalen (Mar 31, 2015)

Sorry for not UTFS properly but I can't find it. Can I convert a 200x50 to 190x50, and if so, how? Ta


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tomvanhalen said:


> Sorry for not UTFS properly but I can't find it. Can I convert a 200x50 to 190x50, and if so, how? Ta


You would need to install a shorter damper body.


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## tomvanhalen (Mar 31, 2015)

Dougal said:


> You would need to install a shorter damper body.


I'm guessing that's not exactly cheap


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tomvanhalen said:


> I'm guessing that's not exactly cheap


They're priced pretty well. But you'll have to order one in and install can be done in a good home workshop.


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## tomvanhalen (Mar 31, 2015)

Dougal said:


> They're priced pretty well. But you'll have to order one in and install can be done in a good home workshop.


Presumably that'll need some of the specific service tools however, and recharging the IFP? Noone in Europe seems to list the part either.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

*top out clunk*

Hey all,

today I noticed my 185x45 mcleod (on a tallboy3) produces a top out clunk when unloaded fast.

if i set the rebound real slow it will go away, but rebound too slow for my liking.

Air can reset?

it also makes a "Woosh" sound on the rebound action. i think it did not do that when new.

Thoughts?

Oren


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> Hey all,
> 
> today I noticed my 185x45 mcleod (on a tallboy3) produces a top out clunk when unloaded fast.
> 
> ...


Air can reset will fix the top-out and rebound range. The rebound noise is oil through shims. That's normal.


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Air can reset will fix the top-out and rebound range. The rebound noise is oil through shims. That's normal.


Just did the air can reset. As expected no top out knock and shock became smoother.
Test ride in 7 hours....

Thanks
Oren

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Undescended said:


> How bout using a 200x56 in place of a 210x55 and put the flipchip in High position?
> 
> Crickets...


Measure BB Height in low position with the 210 mm shock and measure it in high position with the 200.
But you could still use 2 offset bushings which wouod compensate for, 4mm.i think with those 2measures it could easily work


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Anyone selling or can find someone selling a 8.5x2.5" (216x63mm) mcleod. I'm in the US and can't find one anywhere.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

croakies said:


> Anyone selling or can find someone selling a 8.5x2.5" (216x63mm) mcleod. I'm in the US and can't find one anywhere.


https://www.starbike.com/en/manitou-mcleod-rear-shock/


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## Roto599 (Jan 3, 2010)

Hi, does anyone know if 190x40mm Mcleod can be easily modified to 190x45mm? Thanks!


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

I don't know but I can tell you this group told me 2 weeks ago they have a 190x45mm in stock... https://s4suspension.com/


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## Roto599 (Jan 3, 2010)

Undescended said:


> I don't know but I can tell you this group told me 2 weeks ago they have a 190x45mm in stock... https://s4suspension.com/


Thanks, but looking to buy it in Europe.


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

Roto599 said:


> Hi, does anyone know if 190x40mm Mcleod can be easily modified to 190x45mm? Thanks!


No idea, but there seems some additional length on the shaft available on my 190x40 at full compression. How to use this by modding, I do not know (no need for me).


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

If what rapsac says is true then there is a spacer installed on the damper shaft above the seal head. You can confirm by dropping the air can. If there is a spacer you will be able to gain the extra stroke by tearing down the damper body, removing the piston and sealhead and finally the spacer.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## Roto599 (Jan 3, 2010)

bigkat273 said:


> If what rapsac says is true then there is a spacer installed on the damper shaft above the seal head. You can confirm by dropping the air can. If there is a spacer you will be able to gain the extra stroke by tearing down the damper body, removing the piston and sealhead and finally the spacer.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


Thank you! Can anyone confirm this to be the case for the 190x40mm? I would buy it new, so no way to check it until I've bought it. Also, does this job require a lot of special tools? Thanks again!


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

Especially for you ;-) I went into the shed to photograph the shock. I have it installed as a temporary solution while my Fox damper is repaired. Note: I can confirm my 190x40 shock has 40mm travel at full compression.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Roto599 said:


> Hi, does anyone know if 190x40mm Mcleod can be easily modified to 190x45mm? Thanks!


Yes. Same shock but with a 5mm shaft spacer in the 40mm version.

You'll have better luck searching for a 190x45 Mara inline. The McLeod name is going to be used for the imperial sizes now.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


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## Roto599 (Jan 3, 2010)

rapsac said:


> Especially for you ;-) I went into the shed to photograph the shock. I have it installed as a temporary solution while my Fox damper is repaired. Note: I can confirm my 190x40 shock has 40mm travel at full compression.


Thank you! Yes there certainly is enough shaft for a 45mm stroke, thanks! Was more wondering if anyone can confirm that indeed the 190*40 has a removable travel spacer, i.e. that it actually is the same shock as 190*45, with just that spacer having been added there. Apologies for potentially stupid questions, inner workings of shocks are not my forte...


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## Danish Dynamite (Sep 15, 2005)

I just bought a Manitou Mcleod to replace my Fox DPS on my Intense Primer MK1. Anyone know If I need to buy new hardware in order to mount the Mcleod or can I reuse the hardware from the Fox?


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## Roto599 (Jan 3, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Yes. Same shock but with a 5mm shaft spacer in the 40mm version.
> 
> You'll have better luck searching for a 190x45 Mara inline. The McLeod name is going to be used for the imperial sizes now.
> 
> Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


Thank you! Yes been trying to search for those as well, but availability in Europe seems to be still very low. I could get a 190x40 McLeod really affordably (around 200 EUR), just need to decide if I believe I can take it apart myself to remove the spacer.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Danish Dynamite said:


> I just bought a Manitou Mcleod to replace my Fox DPS on my Intense Primer MK1. Anyone know If I need to buy new hardware in order to mount the Mcleod or can I reuse the hardware from the Fox?


It depends, the tolerances on the Mcleod are kind of all over, so you might be able to, but you might not. If there's any play (knocking) it'll wear bushing components fast and eventually lead to damage of the interfaces. So if you connect it all up, do a ride, then check it and there's no play, you are good to go. Sometimes it takes a ride to see if it's going to work loose.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Danish Dynamite said:


> I just bought a Manitou Mcleod to replace my Fox DPS on my Intense Primer MK1. Anyone know If I need to buy new hardware in order to mount the Mcleod or can I reuse the hardware from the Fox?


on my ripley, i was able to reuse hardware from stock dps without any issues.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

My fox hardware was good for a month and then developed a knock. I replaced the igus bushing with a du bushing and hardware from rwc.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## DuploKing (Oct 28, 2020)

*Where to buy?*

Does anyone know where to buy the Mcleod? I think I want the 190x50 for my 2017 ST 6fattie (with bike yoke). Can't seem to find it on sale anywhere.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Undescended said:


> I don't know but I can tell you this group told me 2 weeks ago they have a 190x45mm in stock... https://s4suspension.com/


Try this group...


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

*3d print files for shaft nut and air can tools*

I wanted to work on my McLeod, but didn't want to wait for the tools. I have a 3D printer, so I made some adapters for the air can tool and shaft nut wrench.

Having an air can tool is advantageous over a strap wrench because it allows you to more easily push against the negative spring to get the threads engaged.

Admittedly, this doesn't help with the all important IFP fill tool (I modified an RS tool), but perhaps these will help someone here.

The files are here: thingiverse.com/thing:4635879


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DuploKing said:


> Does anyone know where to buy the Mcleod? I think I want the 190x50 for my 2017 ST 6fattie (with bike yoke). Can't seem to find it on sale anywhere.


New production is happening later in the year.


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## neil_240 (Jan 2, 2010)

Tim-ti said:


> I wanted to work on my McLeod, but didn't want to wait for the tools. I have a 3D printer, so I made some adapters for the air can tool and shaft nut wrench.
> 
> Having an air can tool is advantageous over a strap wrench because it allows you to more easily push against the negative spring to get the threads engaged.
> 
> ...


How did you modify the RS ifp tool?

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

I did that a while ago, so I don't remember the details. It requires drilling a few millimeters into the tip of the RS part. There's a years old MTBR thread about this somewhere you can search for.

If you drill too deep you'll mess up the part. So it's only really worth doing it you have a few RS parts on hand.


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## DuploKing (Oct 28, 2020)

<deleted>

Sorry double post my bad!


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## DuploKing (Oct 28, 2020)

Dougal said:


> New production is happening later in the year.


Thanks! Does anyone know how the Mcleod being sold through Decathalon (Europe) differs from the retail Mcleod?

This link for the UK version
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/shocks-190x50mm-24x8mm-24x8mm-air-mcleod/_/R-p-203258?mc=8599983

I am assuming that the only difference is the bushings and perhaps a tuning specific the bike. If so I also assumed that I would be able to switch the bushings and fit this to my bike with the bike yoke adapter. I wanted to buy this for My ST 6fattie. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether this is worth the risk?

Prices for retail Mcleod are crazy at the moment and this price seems about right.


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## gregp (Nov 3, 2020)

Hello everyone, does anyone have a clue whether a Decathlon branded version (Rockrider specs) is built / tuned differently than the box version? Decathlon used these on their AM100 bikes https://www.olx.pl/oferta/damper-am...omAd=1&track[message_sent]=1&id_at=8033777887


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gregp said:


> Hello everyone, does anyone have a clue whether a Decathlon branded version (Rockrider specs) is built / tuned differently than the box version? Decathlon used these on their AM100 bikes https://www.olx.pl/oferta/damper-am...omAd=1&track[message_sent]=1&id_at=8033777887


No idea, but it's easy to change tunes so if it fits grab it.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> No idea, but it's easy to change tunes so if it fits grab it.


No, it's not, it requires specialized tools, often extra parts, and a fine hand, far more than most shade tree bicycle mechanics are willing to do. I didn't have any significant problems and it's possible to do this, but I would not call it easy for most people that ride bikes. Most people won't even open up their forks, let alone tinker with a rear shock. If he is willing to do so, all the more power to him, but selling it off as "easy" like oiling your chain or tightening a few bolts is ridiculous.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> No, it's not, it requires specialized tools, often extra parts, and a fine hand, far more than most shade tree bicycle mechanics are willing to do. I didn't have any significant problems and it's possible to do this, but I would not call it easy for most people that ride bikes. Most people won't even open up their forks, let alone tinker with a rear shock. If he is willing to do so, all the more power to him, but selling it off as "easy" like oiling your chain or tightening a few bolts is ridiculous.


Well this is a suspension forum. So we assume some level of competence and it is the easiest rear shock to service. Complete with manufacturer videos.


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

*stuck up?*

My shock has been sitting for about a month and it has hardly any sag and feels very firm which is not like it was. 
I cannot get correct sag unless I run very low pressure - about half what it was and it is very sensitive to pressure where 5psi greatly effects the sag.
I pulled off the King can and re-greased to try and reset the negative but still the same.
Any ideas what next??


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

You need to take off the inner air can (i.e. the complete King Can assembly) to reset the negative air chamber. Just taking off the outer sleeve of the King Can won’t do it.


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

Not sure I understand. your saying the King can comes apart?? How?



Tim-ti said:


> You need to take off the inner air can (i.e. the complete King Can assembly) to reset the negative air chamber. Just taking off the outer sleeve of the King Can won't do it.


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc..._Volume_Adjustment_and_Installation_Guide.pdf


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i am wandering if anyone can share some advice on the issue i am having with my mcleod.
this is on ibis ripley v4, the bike shock spec is 190x45. i have been on this shock over a year now, recently my shaft got somehow scratched which resulted in negative air leak. i was in contact with hayes and they suggested there is no good fix and suggested new shaft. so i went for it and at the same time i ordered king can as i have always wanted to give it a try. i have replaced the shaft and used king can today and here is where the issue comes. when assembled, the shock is correct ete but the travel is more. just a few mm more but enough for to linkage on the bike to contact seat tube on full compression.
i started comparing parts new vs old and here is what i found: both new shaft and king can are about 3.5mm shorter than old shaft and can. now, in my old setup, there was one 10mm spacer plus one roughly 3mm spacer in neg chamber. new king can has just one 3mm spacer. not sure why they sent me different shock/can/spacer combination but in the end the eye to eye is same, however travel is different. now i am wandering if ther is something i did wrong, was i supposed to reuse spacers from old can? dont think so as it would give me different ete. so for now, i added 3 nylon washers (about 4.5mm total) under bottom out bumper in the shock. when tested on the bike, this will give me enough clearance even when i account that the bottom out bumper is squished to 0 thickness. this is about the only solution i can think of right now, not sure i was supposed to do this, it was not brought to my attention by heyes. glad i tested the full compression as it would most likely not end up well. anyways, if anyone has any idea how this was supposed to be installed, let me know. also, as far as setup goes, standard can vs king can (i will run it at full volume for starters), i assume i will need more psi? what about rebound? i run 1/8 turn form full open. does the bigger can going to significantly affect rebound?
thanks


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

brankulo said:


> i am wandering if anyone can share some advice on the issue i am having with my mcleod.
> this is on ibis ripley v4, the bike shock spec is 190x45. i have been on this shock over a year now, recently my shaft got somehow scratched which resulted in negative air leak. i was in contact with hayes and they suggested there is no good fix and suggested new shaft. so i went for it and at the same time i ordered king can as i have always wanted to give it a try. i have replaced the shaft and used king can today and here is where the issue comes. when assembled, the shock is correct ete but the travel is more. just a few mm more but enough for to linkage on the bike to contact seat tube on full compression.
> i started comparing parts new vs old and here is what i found: both new shaft and king can are about 3.5mm shorter than old shaft and can. now, in my old setup, there was one 10mm spacer plus one roughly 3mm spacer in neg chamber. new king can has just one 3mm spacer. not sure why they sent me different shock/can/spacer combination but in the end the eye to eye is same, however travel is different. now i am wandering if ther is something i did wrong, was i supposed to reuse spacers from old can? dont think so as it would give me different ete. so for now, i added 3 nylon washers (about 4.5mm total) under bottom out bumper in the shock. when tested on the bike, this will give me enough clearance even when i account that the bottom out bumper is squished to 0 thickness. this is about the only solution i can think of right now, not sure i was supposed to do this, it was not brought to my attention by heyes. glad i tested the full compression as it would most likely not end up well. anyways, if anyone has any idea how this was supposed to be installed, let me know. also, as far as setup goes, standard can vs king can (i will run it at full volume for starters), i assume i will need more psi? what about rebound? i run 1/8 turn form full open. does the bigger can going to significantly affect rebound?
> thanks


Interesting. I too have a scratched air-shaft where the anno has worn off and it's shiny. I'm not sure how this happened with grease/oil in the shock. I thought maybe somehow the travel-redux spacers were doing it, but since those are plastic, I had a hard time think that was the source.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

brankulo said:


> i am wandering if anyone can share some advice on the issue i am having with my mcleod.
> this is on ibis ripley v4, the bike shock spec is 190x45. i have been on this shock over a year now, recently my shaft got somehow scratched which resulted in negative air leak. i was in contact with hayes and they suggested there is no good fix and suggested new shaft. so i went for it and at the same time i ordered king can as i have always wanted to give it a try. i have replaced the shaft and used king can today and here is where the issue comes. when assembled, the shock is correct ete but the travel is more. just a few mm more but enough for to linkage on the bike to contact seat tube on full compression.
> i started comparing parts new vs old and here is what i found: both new shaft and king can are about 3.5mm shorter than old shaft and can. now, in my old setup, there was one 10mm spacer plus one roughly 3mm spacer in neg chamber. new king can has just one 3mm spacer. not sure why they sent me different shock/can/spacer combination but in the end the eye to eye is same, however travel is different. now i am wandering if ther is something i did wrong, was i supposed to reuse spacers from old can? dont think so as it would give me different ete. so for now, i added 3 nylon washers (about 4.5mm total) under bottom out bumper in the shock. when tested on the bike, this will give me enough clearance even when i account that the bottom out bumper is squished to 0 thickness. this is about the only solution i can think of right now, not sure i was supposed to do this, it was not brought to my attention by heyes. glad i tested the full compression as it would most likely not end up well. anyways, if anyone has any idea how this was supposed to be installed, let me know. also, as far as setup goes, standard can vs king can (i will run it at full volume for starters), i assume i will need more psi? what about rebound? i run 1/8 turn form full open. does the bigger can going to significantly affect rebound?
> thanks


King can shocks are supposed to use 2 top out pads.

Brings them back to original length.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Dougal said:


> King can shocks are supposed to use 2 top out pads.
> 
> Brings them back to original length.
> 
> Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


My length is actually correct, adding any more topout spacers will shorten ete. The problem is the travel is more than 45mm. I actually just checked packing and it says the can is 50mm. Will need to check with heyes on this.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cavo said:


> My length is actually correct, adding any more topout spacers will shorten ete. The problem is the travel is more than 45mm. I actually just checked packing and it says the can is 50mm. Will need to check with heyes on this.


Do you have a metric 190x40/45 shock or an imperial 190x50mm shock with a travel reduction spacer?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Do you have a metric 190x40/45 shock or an imperial 190x50mm shock with a travel reduction spacer?


this is spec for new replacement shaft and king can i received from hayes:
-142-31535-K012,MCLEOD DAMPER BODY 190x50
-McLeod King Can 190x50, 200x50

not sure on the spec on the original shaft and standard can that i had, but like i mentioned original shaft and can are about 3.5mm longer than new ones i received. not sure why they sent different lengths.

thanks


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Interesting. I too have a scratched air-shaft where the anno has worn off and it's shiny. I'm not sure how this happened with grease/oil in the shock. I thought maybe somehow the travel-redux spacers were doing it, but since those are plastic, I had a hard time think that was the source.


mine had actual scratch, fairly deep otherwise the shaft was perfect. i think this happened during muddy ride i did, the shock was all covered in mud, brobably got scratch with small sand grain stuck to the shock.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i actually found spec on packing list for the original shock, see below.
so looks like replacement shaft and king can they sent me are not correct size? that explains why eye to eye is correct but there is more travel i guess.

i did ride the shock today and its rideable and all, but i wander if i decide to go back to standard can, what combination of neg chamber reducers i would need to use since the new shaft is shorter now.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

brankulo said:


> i actually found spec on packing list for the original shock, see below.
> so looks like replacement shaft and king can they sent me are not correct size? that explains why eye to eye is correct but there is more travel i guess.
> 
> i did ride the shock today and its rideable and all, but i wander if i decide to go back to standard can, what combination of neg chamber reducers i would need to use since the new shaft is shorter now.
> View attachment 1378751


have you tried to contact Hayes to see what their take is?


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

cavo said:


> have you tried to contact Hayes to see what their take is?


I have, but they are super slow to respond, thatsthats why i posted here. Nobody seems to have idea though. I got calipers today and re- measured eye to eye with new shaft on and its in 185-186mm range instead of 190mm. So def a incorrect size shaft.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

brankulo said:


> i actually found spec on packing list for the original shock, see below.
> so looks like replacement shaft and king can they sent me are not correct size? that explains why eye to eye is correct but there is more travel i guess.
> 
> i did ride the shock today and its rideable and all, but i wander if i decide to go back to standard can, what combination of neg chamber reducers i would need to use since the new shaft is shorter now.
> View attachment 1378751


Do you have the original box? It will have a part number on it.

You've most likely got an imperial 190x50 shock which was spaced down to 45mm.
But the replacement parts are likely from a 190x40-45mm metric shock. Which has a shorter shaft and longer shock body.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Do you have the original box? It will have a part number on it.
> 
> You've most likely got an imperial 190x50 shock which was spaced down to 45mm.
> But the replacement parts are likely from a 190x40-45mm metric shock. Which has a shorter shaft and longer shock body.


I cant find the box, its probably gone. But you are probably right, my shock was spaced down as there were 2 spacers in neg chamber. One about 10mm and other one about 2mm.

(edit)
managed to find the box. it states the shock is 190x45 metric. i am totally confused now. also, just realized i was using wrong term for the replacement part that got scratched. the part in question is not the shaft but damper body (the tube outside the shock that the sag o ring is on)


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

...


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

I can't get it to come apart - any tips?



Tim-ti said:


> https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc..._Volume_Adjustment_and_Installation_Guide.pdf


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

brankulo said:


> I cant find the box, its probably gone. But you are probably right, my shock was spaced down as there were 2 spacers in neg chamber. One about 10mm and other one about 2mm.
> 
> (edit)
> managed to find the box. it states the shock is 190x45 metric. i am totally confused now. also, just realized i was using wrong term for the replacement part that got scratched. the part in question is not the shaft but damper body (the tube outside the shock that the sag o ring is on)
> View attachment 1379109


Even though that's a 190x45 metric I think it may be a converted 190x50 imperial. Where now the 190x40-45mm is a slightly different thing.

If you've got the new length shaft, you'd need the matching shock body too. Then it should all come right. Possibly with some air-can spacers.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Even though that's a 190x45 metric I think it may be a converted 190x50 imperial. Where now the 190x40-45mm is a slightly different thing.
> 
> If you've got the new length shaft, you'd need the matching shock body too. Then it should all come right. Possibly with some air-can spacers.


Can you convert a Mara Pro 190x45 to a 190x50?


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Dougal said:


> Even though that's a 190x45 metric I think it may be a converted 190x50 imperial. Where now the 190x40-45mm is a slightly different thing.
> 
> If you've got the new length shaft, you'd need the matching shock body too. Then it should all come right. Possibly with some air-can spacers.


i am in contact with manitou. i think my shock is true 190x45 as the parts they sent are for 190x50 and are different length than what i have. 190x50 damper body they sent is slightly shorter, making the shock e2e 185mm now. so i think i need longer damper body by about 5mm. they are looking into it.


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## Trigrwoods (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi, Ive been considering getting one of these shocks for my bike for a while now. Has anyone ran one of these on a true single pivot bike? I have a Starling Swoop currently running the ccdb il coil shock but would like to lighten the build up for longer days in the saddles. I have heard a couple of Starling owners suggest that the mcleod was the best air shock that they had run on their bikes, but they were Highlander tuned. By skipping through this thread i can see that this is a tuneable shock if you know what you are doing but wondered how anyone with true single pivot bikes have got on with this shock. Thanks.


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## neb (Aug 12, 2008)

I have a McLeod on a Cotic Rocket (not a true single pivot) which replaced a cane creek inline coil. I prefer the McLeod I think. The coil was heavy, complicated and not user servicable. In hindsight the bike isn't suited to a coil shock due to the leverage ratio. To stop the coil bottoming out I had to run a higher rated spring which made it a bit lively. I've managed to tune the McLeod to have all the best bits of the coil without any of the drawbacks. Having 4 position damping knob is really useful as once the shock is tuned for your bike you can easily make use of the different settings during a ride. I have it set on 0 for muddy slippery descending, 1 for normal descending, 2 for technical climbing and 3 for fire roads. It works really well!

Tuning info is in a separate thread which is really helpful if you go down the McLeod route.


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

Trigrwoods said:


> Hi, Ive been considering getting one of these shocks for my bike for a while now. Has anyone ran one of these on a true single pivot bike? I have a Starling Swoop currently running the ccdb il coil shock but would like to lighten the build up for longer days in the saddles. I have heard a couple of Starling owners suggest that the mcleod was the best air shock that they had run on their bikes, but they were Highlander tuned. By skipping through this thread i can see that this is a tuneable shock if you know what you are doing but wondered how anyone with true single pivot bikes have got on with this shock. Thanks.


There are some single pivot writeups in this thread, like this one (2014 Santa Cruz Bantam)


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## Trigrwoods (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks neb, I actually get on with my cc coil really well... think the progressive spring helps alot. Ive had much more success from the coil than i have using air shocks (fox x2 and rs monarch) but it is heavy and definitely contributes to the bikes draggy feel on anything but steep chunky desents.


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## Trigrwoods (Feb 5, 2012)

Cheers rete, i will have a look at that link later.


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## jaybert (Sep 10, 2020)

has anyone heard anything re: hayes selling the mcleod with the nino/kids tune that are are coming OEM on some of the higher end FS bikes? I emailed them a few days ago but havent heard back if I could purchase it from them directly vs. having to get it tuned after the fact.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jaybert said:


> has anyone heard anything re: hayes selling the mcleod with the nino/kids tune that are are coming OEM on some of the higher end FS bikes? I emailed them a few days ago but havent heard back if I could purchase it from them directly vs. having to get it tuned after the fact.


My understanding was the Nino wouldn't be available as a shock but the tuning info may be shared and used on any McLeod.

I haven't seen one for service yet.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Can anyone recommend a US based MTB suspension shop/business I could use to convert the stoke on my 190x50 Mcleod to 190x45? My next best option is to send it to Shockcraft in NZ but I'd kind of like to avoid the time and shipping expense of doing that. Thanks.


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## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

I asked this same question to Hayes and they said it’s not possible. Was just a brief phone call but something to note.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Can anyone recommend a US based MTB suspension shop/business I could use to convert the stoke on my 190x50 Mcleod to 190x45? My next best option is to send it to Shockcraft in NZ but I'd kind of like to avoid the time and shipping expense of doing that. Thanks.


its just a matter of limiting the shaft travel to 45mm. you can get nylon spacers at home depot, they have ones that fit exactly on the shaft (10mm diam i believe). just stack a few for total of 5mm. all you need to do is get the air can off


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

cavo said:


> its just a matter of limiting the shaft travel to 45mm. you can get nylon spacers at home depot, they have ones that fit exactly on the shaft (10mm diam i believe). just stack a few for total of 5mm. all you need to do is get the air can off


I believe doing what you describe will change both the stroke and eye-to-eye length. I did that to make it 184x44 to fit on my previous bike. I'm looking to have just the stroke shortened by 5mm to convert it to 190x45 if possible.

I may be wrong but my understanding is it can be done but you need to dig into it further than just pulling the air can.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

No cavo is right. All the spacers will do is limit the amount of stroke when compressed. The eye to eye doesn't get changed at all. That would require getting into the damper for that, if that would be possible at all.






Look at around 1:30 minutes into this and you'll see the smaller inner shaft where the spacers would go.
You are thinking of where the orange spacer is. That WOULD limit the i to i.


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## jaybert (Sep 10, 2020)

Dougal said:


> My understanding was the Nino wouldn't be available as a shock but the tuning info may be shared and used on any McLeod.
> 
> I haven't seen one for service yet.


I emailed them and apparently the 165x38 McLeod is discontinued. Sad times. Not sure if it's all mcleods or just that size. They're going to ask the engineering department for the tuning info in case I can find a used one.

So if anyone has a 165x38 McLeod shock feel free to PM...would be interested in purchasing. Thanks!


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## jaybert (Sep 10, 2020)

the rep said all sizes are showing up as discontinued, though I wonder if that's because next year's model is coming out, not that the McLeod is completely discontinued. It was a customer service rep and he was just posting that all the different SKUs were showing up as discontinued in his system.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

blcman said:


> No cavo is right. All the spacers will do is limit the amount of stroke when compressed. The eye to eye doesn't get changed at all. That would require getting into the damper for that, if that would be possible at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So just to be clear. Are you saying all I need to do is add a 5mm spacer on the shaft at the location indicated in the screen shot below? Should I be concerned about the shock slamming into that spacer if it bottoms out rather than the actual bottom out bumper (assuming there is one)? Thanks.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Stahr_Nut said:


> So just to be clear. Are you saying all I need to do is add a 5mm spacer on the shaft at the location indicated in the screen shot below? Should I be concerned about the shock slamming into that spacer if it bottoms out rather than the actual bottom out bumper (assuming there is one)? Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 1906874


yes, the black thick rubber ring is your bottom out bumper. so install 5mm worth of spacers under this ring. if you need to shorten ete, you would do it with neg chamber spacers, easy to get them there but you would need to know the right thickness.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jaybert said:


> I emailed them and apparently the 165x38 McLeod is discontinued. Sad times. Not sure if it's all mcleods or just that size. They're going to ask the engineering department for the tuning info in case I can find a used one.
> 
> So if anyone has a 165x38 McLeod shock feel free to PM...would be interested in purchasing. Thanks!


I've just heard back from Hayes.

McLeod is discontinued. Imperial Mara are replacing them. 165x38 will be available for purchase real soon.


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## jaybert (Sep 10, 2020)

Dougal said:


> I've just heard back from Hayes.
> 
> McLeod is discontinued. Imperial Mara are replacing them. 165x38 will be available for purchase real soon.


Cool thanks. Hopefully when they do have those they'll be able to do the nino tune directly from them. The Mara appears to be more expensive so at least having it tuned already would save a few $. I'll have to keep a lookout for the next 20-25% sale they had a few weeks ago.


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## ViperDom (Sep 28, 2016)

jaybert said:


> I'll have to keep a lookout for the next 20-25% sale they had a few weeks ago.


Don't count on it. I'm the guy who decides he wants something expensive for his bike but is too cheap to pay full price so ends up dwelling over it for a long time before finding it on sale or just caving and making the purchase. I've been tracking the Mcleod/Mara's for the past 18months and have never seen them on sale. Except one time a few months ago a reseller had a few Mcleod's on closeout discount(not my bikes size tho) so i called Hayes to see if they could pricematch and they said no. I'm glad they didnt because the Mara is really what i wanted(the best).

When the Blackfriday/Holiday sale popped up a few weeks ago i was ecstatic. A $425 Mara unit for $340 ?? Hell yea! Take my money! First thing i talked to them about when i called to order was how rare the sale was and they confirmed that this was the first time they had a 20-25% discount across the board on the Manitou line and dont expect to see it again. If you want the Mara i would call(not email) them asap and plead for them to extend the holiday sale to your order. It dosnt hurt to ask.

I'll add, the guys at Hayes are very helpful over the phone & email. Phone they pick up right away. Email has taken a couple days to respond to me but they do respond.


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## ViperDom (Sep 28, 2016)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Can anyone recommend a US based MTB suspension shop/business I could use to convert the stoke on my 190x50 Mcleod to 190x45?


Stahr, i see that you are getting conflicting advice on your situation. I strongly recommend calling Hayes performance and letting them set you straight on Exactly what needs to be done for your conversion(if possible at all.)

When i purchased my MARA they did not have my 190x45 (Scalpel-SI) in stock but said, No Worries just buy the 190x40 and take one 5mm spacer out of it. They went on to explain that the 40 & 45 units are the same internal&external dimensions but just differ with spacers. My assumption is that this scenario works in set increments, for example maybe every two consecutive sizes share the same mechanical dimensions, but going from a 45 to a 60 is not possible because of something like differing shaft length. They told me over the phone which PDF on they website to refer to for assembly/disassembly.

NOTE: This is just my opinion/understanding. The only way to know for sure is to contact them directly to get relevant info from the source.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

When I'm looking at McLeod shocks for sale online (ebay or other websites), how can I tell which ones are newer or more up to date models? There seems to be a wide variety in the graphics on the cans. I'm not sure which is the newer models. I am seeing a few good deals, but I wouldn't want to purchase an older one.

Or is the Mara that much better that even with the good deals I am seeing that I should go Mara instead of McLeod?


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## jaybert (Sep 10, 2020)

thanks, didnt realize they didnt go on sale ever other then the past sale. I just saw the sale when I was looking at getting a fork for the bike i'm attempting to build for my son (he also has the machete junit 20" on his current bike). 

I do have time on my side (and they dont even sell the size mara I need just yet...based on the above coming soon) as the frame comes with a shock (monarch r), though apparently not that great for lightweight, even with custom tuning. At $320 - 20% getting a replacement now didnt seem crazy (esp. if it came with the nino tune already), but $430(even with the 20%) and potentially having to get it tuned also doesnt make it as good of a proposition. If I can get it with 20% and it already has the nino tune (assuming they even have the nino tune for the mara) can at least consider it.


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## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Hi,

I'm thinking about getting Monarch RC3 plus. But, I saw that the McLeod is a great option instead for the Hightower MY18.

Anyone tried comparing both of them?


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## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

Anyone have the possibility of measuring the thickness of the stanchion end eyelet wall at the outermost point? Clearance is very limited on my experimental long shocked setup


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Toni L said:


> Anyone have the possibility of measuring the thickness of the stanchion end eyelet wall at the outermost point? Clearance is very limited on my experimental long shocked setup
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I measured 0.125" on one of mine.


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## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

Stahr_Nut said:


> I measured 0.125" on one of mine.
> 
> View attachment 1910742


Many thanks! What size and model year is that? It seems there are at least two different versions out: one with D-profile cross section like yours and a B-profile cross section like in the picture attached









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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Toni L said:


> Many thanks! What size and model year is that? It seems there are at least two different versions out: one with D-profile cross section like yours and a B-profile cross section like in the picture attached
> 
> 
> 
> ...


190x50. Not 100% sure on model year. I bought it in April of 2019.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

cavo said:


> yes, the black thick rubber ring is your bottom out bumper. so install 5mm worth of spacers under this ring. if you need to shorten ete, you would do it with neg chamber spacers, easy to get them there but you would need to know the right thickness.


So I contacted Hayes/Manitou and explained I'm looking to reduce stroke only and they sent me the spacer in this photo. Does it look right to you guys? To me it looks more like a thicker version of the spacers I used to shorten both the eye-to-eye and stroke from 190x50 to 184x44 not what I need to convert just the stroke from 190x50 to 190x45. Thanks.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Stahr_Nut said:


> So I contacted Hayes/Manitou and explained I'm looking to reduce stroke only and they sent me the spacer in this photo. Does it look right to you guys? To me it looks more like a thicker version of the spacers I used to shorten both the eye-to-eye and stroke from 190x50 to 184x44 not what I need to convert just the stroke from 190x50 to 190x45. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 1918457


Yeah, that looks similar to what I'm using to reduce eye to eye.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Stahr_Nut said:


> So I contacted Hayes/Manitou and explained I'm looking to reduce stroke only and they sent me the spacer in this photo. Does it look right to you guys? To me it looks more like a thicker version of the spacers I used to shorten both the eye-to-eye and stroke from 190x50 to 184x44 not what I need to convert just the stroke from 190x50 to 190x45. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 1918457


That looks like the 6mm spacer that I got to reduce eye to eye and stroke for my Following. I think to reduce stroke you may have to open up the damper itself.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

To reduce stroke but not length you need a spacer on the damper shaft. About 10mm ID, 19mm OD and length to match your stroke reduction.
The shock needs a full strip down to install. There are two ways to get it on the shaft, taking the piston and cap off the bottom is less risky but the three pins holding the preload collar on can be fiddly. If you take the head off the adjustment during assembly is critical. Once you're in range of where it was before every degree of clocking (plus or minus) can give you about 1kg more or less damping force (at 0.5m/s). It's really easy to accidentally get huge increases or decreases in damping force.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Dougal said:


> To reduce stroke but not length you need a spacer on the damper shaft. About 10mm ID, 19mm OD and length to match your stroke reduction.
> The shock needs a full strip down to install. There are two ways to get it on the shaft, taking the piston and cap off the bottom is less risky but the three pins holding the preload collar on can be fiddly. If you take the head off the adjustment during assembly is critical. Once you're in range of where it was before every degree of clocking (plus or minus) can give you about 1kg more or less damping force (at 0.5m/s). It's really easy to accidentally get huge increases or decreases in damping force.


Thanks, sounds like more than I want to take on. I'll contact you off line via your shockcraft e-mail.


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## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

Can anyone recommend a service shop in the USA for my Mara Inline? I worked with Dirt Labs recently on a Fox, they were great. They were stoked to check out my Mara, but mostly because they hadn't seen one yet!


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## Mr Smith PDX (Oct 9, 2011)

afraid said:


> Can anyone recommend a service shop in the USA for my Mara Inline? I worked with Dirt Labs recently on a Fox, they were great. They were stoked to check out my Mara, but mostly because they hadn't seen one yet!


When I emailed Hayes/Manitou about rebuilding my McLeod, they said they would normally do it, but they were on Covid Restrictions (this was last summer, I think). They recommended Butter Suspension (he is somewhere in the Seattle area). I never got around to it. But I did notice the Butter Suspension guy now has a YouTube channel.

Maybe he can do your Mara as well? Or you can email Hayes directly. I seem to remember they got back to me reasonably quickly.

Good luck


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

So this has been discussed previously but I'm still battling a knocking issue with the shock. I'm using Fox hardware and had previously replaced the white IGUS bushings with brand new ones and it helped for a few weeks only. Now I'd like to get proper hardware to fix this but Manitou hardware seems hard to come by. Any idea of a reasonably priced source in Canada? I'm also toying with the idea of ordering bushings from offsetbushings.com but just the standard ones, not offset. They come with new DU bushes. By e-mail they claimed "We’ve produced many, many sets for the Manitou without any issue at all – our bushings will be a tight fit when installed so I wouldn’t worry!"

What are your thoughts?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Kadath said:


> So this has been discussed previously but I'm still battling a knocking issue with the shock. I'm using Fox hardware and had previously replaced the white IGUS bushings with brand new ones and it helped for a few weeks only. Now I'd like to get proper hardware to fix this but Manitou hardware seems hard to come by. Any idea of a reasonably priced source in Canada? I'm also toying with the idea of ordering bushings from offsetbushings.com but just the standard ones, not offset. They come with new DU bushes. By e-mail they claimed "We've produced many, many sets for the Manitou without any issue at all - our bushings will be a tight fit when installed so I wouldn't worry!"
> 
> What are your thoughts?


Contact Zac at smithtech - he is the Hayes / manitou guy for Canada.






HOME | smithtech







www.smithtechbike.com


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

Kadath said:


> So this has been discussed previously but I'm still battling a knocking issue with the shock. I'm using Fox hardware and had previously replaced the white IGUS bushings with brand new ones and it helped for a few weeks only. Now I'd like to get proper hardware to fix this but Manitou hardware seems hard to come by. Any idea of a reasonably priced source in Canada? I'm also toying with the idea of ordering bushings from offsetbushings.com but just the standard ones, not offset. They come with new DU bushes. By e-mail they claimed "We've produced many, many sets for the Manitou without any issue at all - our bushings will be a tight fit when installed so I wouldn't worry!"
> 
> What are your thoughts?


Hayes' are a pain in the ass seemingly anywhere except the US, Germany and maybe NZ. In Canada your options are S4 Suspension and Smithtech Services, but I have the feeling they'll both shrug when you enquire about McLeod or Mara mounting hardware.

The DU bushes that I received with Offsetbushings' hardware worked okay with Fox eyelets but were too loose in a McLeod.

The McLeod on my wife's bike is mounted with RWC's needle bearing both ends and I in both eyelets I had to use the largest of the steel axles you get with the kit. I think Hayes' is a bit loosey-goosey with their tolerances being on the large side.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

rete said:


> Hayes' are a pain in the ass seemingly anywhere except the US, Germany and maybe NZ. In Canada your options are S4 Suspension and Smithtech Services, but I have the feeling they'll both shrug when you enquire about McLeod or Mara mounting hardware.
> 
> The DU bushes that I received with Offsetbushings' hardware worked okay with Fox eyelets but were too loose in a McLeod.
> 
> The McLeod on my wife's bike is mounted with RWC's needle bearing both ends and I in both eyelets I had to use the largest of the steel axles you get with the kit. I think Hayes' is a bit loosey-goosey with their tolerances being on the large side.


Zac at smithtech took my order and I had new manitou hardware. Was fairly pain free - had to call him as he didn't have listed on his website.


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I was about to pull the trigger on offsetbushings because they are cheaper than Manitou hardware and brass seems to make more sense than the old style Manitou bushings. 

I'll bite the bullet and pay for the overpriced Manitou bushings then (about 50 USD + shipping)


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

006_007 said:


> Zac at smithtech took my order and I had new manitou hardware. Was fairly pain free - had to call him as he didn't have listed on his website.


Good to know.


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## BANANAJACK (Mar 6, 2021)

Hello
Can anyone tell me what is the maximum pressure allowed in the McLeod standard air can?
I have just bought this shock and I can't find this data, neither on the seller's site, nor on the manufacturer's site.
Thanks in advance for your help.


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

BANANAJACK said:


> Hello
> Can anyone tell me what is the maximum pressure allowed in the McLeod standard air can?
> I have just bought this shock and I can't find this data, neither on the seller's site, nor on the manufacturer's site.
> Thanks in advance for your help.


Unlimited - the McLeod is a mythical creature not bound by mere natural laws


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

Alternatively, somewhere between 16 and 20 bar (230 to 290 psi) - supposedly


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Is the special Manitou "Air Can Seal Install tool" necessary for replacing the seals on the air can? Doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere but at the same time, I'm not seeing anyone mention it in this thread either.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

GiddyHitch said:


> Is the special Manitou "Air Can Seal Install tool" necessary for replacing the seals on the air can? Doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere but at the same time, I'm not seeing anyone mention it in this thread either.


You can use a strap wrench. Lowes/Home Depot like $10-20. That air can wrench is like $80 isn't it?


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Rngspnr said:


> You can use a strap wrench. Lowes/Home Depot like $10-20. That air can wrench is like $80 isn't it?


I was talking about the seal driver for the air can seal installation, not the air can wrench to loosen the can. Specifically, 
Air Can Seal Install tool, Manitou part number 172-32193-K001.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

GiddyHitch said:


> I was talking about the seal driver for the air can seal installation, not the air can wrench to loosen the can. Specifically,
> Air Can Seal Install tool, Manitou part number 172-32193-K001.


Ahh...OK. Yeah, the wrench to remove the air can is a bit pricey when a strap wrench does the job just fine.


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

GiddyHitch said:


> I was talking about the seal driver for the air can seal installation, not the air can wrench to loosen the can. Specifically,
> Air Can Seal Install tool, Manitou part number 172-32193-K001.


You don't need that air can seal install tool to do the job.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rngspnr said:


> You can use a strap wrench. Lowes/Home Depot like $10-20. That air can wrench is like $80 isn't it?


After 5 years or so I decided to order that air-can wrench. Wow it's great. Black acetal inserts so it can't scratch anything, red anodised aluminium handle. The other end fits the Mara Pro piggy back.

Overkill for home use sure: Mara/McLeod Air Can Wrench

No pics on my site or Hayes but it's a lighter and double-ended version of this: Rear Shock Air Can Wrench


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

Right, I can't be the only one who's not enamoured with Hayes' air spring design - specifically, the tiny top out bumper that doubles as a negative air spring. Looking for opinions and input around drilling some holes in a king can and using half the space as a negative air chamber.

This is not auto-equalizing (yet, but dremel is on standby). Any comments, suggestions, flamethrowers?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rete said:


> Right, I can't be the only one who's not enamoured with Hayes' air spring design - specifically, the tiny top out bumper that doubles as a negative air spring. Looking for opinions and input around drilling some holes in a king can and using half the space as a negative air chamber.
> 
> This is not auto-equalizing (yet, but dremel is on standby). Any comments, suggestions, flamethrowers?
> 
> View attachment 1927364


I've notched and vented McLeod cans before. It's very hard to get everything exactly right. The mods I did gave too much sag for most bikes but worked out well on the bike I had (with it's own geometry issues).
IMO you're better to make a new air-sleeve which has a negative valve in it. Then you can tune negative volume and pressure without the issues notches give. I will post up some interesting graphs tomorrow about air-cans, negative volume and notch placement. I'm out of time today.


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

There are a few posts here about dimpling his air-can, Rete. IIRC the chap who was into it posted photos and a how-to on one of the German forums and at one point added a second Schrader valve (like on the early 2000's RS SID shocks).
As Dougal mentions, having the dimple just a little too high or low could result in a poor result. This could include terrible top-out.
If there were more Manitou shocks out there, I expect Vorsprung would make a corset (Dougal ).


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## jaybert (Sep 10, 2020)

Dougal said:


> I've just heard back from Hayes.
> 
> McLeod is discontinued. Imperial Mara are replacing them. 165x38 will be available for purchase real soon.


Any updates on this? Don't see a 165x38 Mara listed on their website

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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jaybert said:


> Any updates on this? Don't see a 165x38 Mara listed on their website
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes I have 165x38, 190x50 and 216x63mm here ready to go: Manitou Mara (Inline) Rear Shock - Imperial Eyelet | Shockcraft

They just arrived last week, I haven't got the website showing correct stock.


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

rete said:


> Right, I can't be the only one who's not enamoured with Hayes' air spring design - specifically, the tiny top out bumper that doubles as a negative air spring. Looking for opinions and input around drilling some holes in a king can and using half the space as a negative air chamber.
> 
> This is not auto-equalizing (yet, but dremel is on standby). Any comments, suggestions, flamethrowers?
> 
> View attachment 1927364


This way works well


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## jaybert (Sep 10, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Yes I have 165x38, 190x50 and 216x63mm here ready to go: Manitou Mara (Inline) Rear Shock - Imperial Eyelet | Shockcraft
> 
> They just arrived last week, I haven't got the website showing correct stock.


thanks! Weird that they arent listed on the hayes/manitou website at all yet...then again they still list all the McLeod shocks as coming soon on their as well even though its been discontinued.

Do you have the specs in order to setup one of the 165x38 with the nino tune that they have had on the mcleods previously? What would be the cost to have one shipped over to the US? I'd be putting this on a Transition Ripcord. I'm not sure if I'm ready to pull the trigger, but would be good to have the info available if/when my son gets to the point where the rear suspension is limiting him.


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

sine waiver said:


> This way works well




Intriguing, Dr. Evil.

But a gizmo like that won't fly here, I can hear the owner now "_what is that thing and why is it on my bike? And why isn't it pink?_"


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## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

rete said:


> Intriguing, Dr. Evil.
> 
> But a gizmo like that won't fly here, I can hear the owner now "_what is that thing and why is it on my bike? And why isn't it pink?_"


Very true.it's not pretty


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## Mombatrud (May 2, 2021)

hi, wanted to ask if somebody with linkage program could provide me leverage ratio graph for Rockrider AM500s? for king can purposses


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mombatrud said:


> hi, wanted to ask if somebody with linkage program could provide me leverage ratio graph for Rockrider AM500s? for king can purposses


It was in the online library. So that was easy:


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## Mombatrud (May 2, 2021)

Dougal said:


> It was in the online library. So that was easy:
> View attachment 1928809
> View attachment 1928809


thank you very much.


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## Mombatrud (May 2, 2021)

with my king can i got this set of seals. The black ones with spilt white ones are for air can, the red foam one goes onto damper body as top out but where goes that fat white ring?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

The white one looks like a spacer to reduce eye to eye and travel. I had a 6mm spacer that looked like that in my 190x50 to reduce it to 184x44.


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## Mombatrud (May 2, 2021)

Rngspnr said:


> The white one looks like a spacer to reduce eye to eye and travel. I had a 6mm spacer that looked like that in my 190x50 to reduce it to 184x44.


it is 190x50 king can but the white ring is only cca 3mm wide.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Mombatrud said:


> it is 190x50 king can but the white ring is only cca 3mm wide.


Hmmm... I'd call Hayes and ask.


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## Emmitch (May 2, 2021)

Hi, I’ve got Mcleods on two of my bikes, and liking them a lot. Both were new direct from Hayes. Only issue i see is both lose pressure over time. I’ve taken off and greased the air cans, and even replaced the schraeder valve cores. Has helped a little, but i still see pressure drops (140 down to ~100 psi) over a week or so. Any ideas on where the leaks might be?? Thanks


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Emmitch said:


> Hi, I've got Mcleods on two of my bikes, and liking them a lot. Both were new direct from Hayes. Only issue i see is both lose pressure over time. I've taken off and greased the air cans, and even replaced the schraeder valve cores. Has helped a little, but i still see pressure drops (140 down to ~100 psi) over a week or so. Any ideas on where the leaks might be?? Thanks


When riding or when sitting?
That's a huge pressure drop. Have you checked how much your shock normally loses when you reconnect the pump?

A leak that fast should give air bubbles when you drown the shock in a bucket of water. The one join you haven't checked is the o-ring for air-can to shock head. If it's leaking there a water test will show it.


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## Emmitch (May 2, 2021)

I was going to try the water test but didnt want to soak it. It’s a slow leak. Occurs while sitting for over a week or so. Only see maybe 5 psi drop when reconnecting pump. Also see only a little drop in pressure after pumping up then riding. I greased the o-ring between air can and shock head when i took off and replaced the air can. O-ring is basically new and looked fine. Guess the water dunk is next...


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## Mombatrud (May 2, 2021)

do you think it is a big problem if i didnt put the red foam top out ring onto damper body but inside air-can and then assembled it?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mombatrud said:


> do you think it is a big problem if i didnt put the red foam top out ring onto damper body but inside air-can and then assembled it?


That works fine.


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## Mombatrud (May 2, 2021)

Dougal said:


> That works fine.


thank you for easing my mind.


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## Emmitch (May 2, 2021)

Have a leak on my McLeod where the air valve attaches to top cap. See that this unscrews. Anyone know the right size for Allen key or torx? Have the core removed but 3mm Allen too small and 3.5mm too big. Imperial dont seem to fit either. Thanks


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## Emmitch (May 2, 2021)

Nevermind.... 3mm, but was stripped. Looks like was stripped from factory, shock was new


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## Francika (May 26, 2021)

Hi,

If anyone could help me, I would be very grateful.
I just saw great deal on 190x50 McLeod on Decathlon for €194 and got the shock. It came as a 'Rockrider specs'. 
Any idea what that means? Is it a normal shock that just fits Rockrider AM 100 S or does it have some specific tuning?
The shock also has remote cable eyelet pre-installed. My bike (Scalpel Si) needs remote down version while I got remote up on the shock. I saw among manitou online instructions that there is 180 remote version which is basically what I need.
Anyone knows where I can get this?
Couldn't find it online.
Also would mcleod work with fox or rockshox oneloc remote?
Thank you!










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

Francika said:


> Hi,
> 
> If anyone could help me, I would be very grateful.
> I just saw great deal on 190x50 McLeod on Decathlon for €194 and got the shock. It came as a 'Rockrider specs'.
> ...


"Rockrider Specs" is remote-adjusted and a sticker on the shock and maybe a custom tune - there is some discussion about the Decathlon McLeod here.

To find a source for the 180° remote, send an email to _[email protected]_ or contact your nearest EU distributor here.


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## Francika (May 26, 2021)

rete said:


> "Rockrider Specs" is remote-adjusted and a sticker on the shock and maybe a custom tune - there is some discussion about the Decathlon McLeod here.
> 
> To find a source for the 180° remote, send an email to _[email protected]_ or contact your nearest EU distributor here.


Thank you very much!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mr Smith PDX (Oct 9, 2011)

I am sending my shock in to Hayes for a rebuild. Mainly because I got it for cheap off of ebay and know nothing about how it is set up inside and I was getting a fair amount of oil on the stanchion so I thought a seal replacement would be a good idea. I really didn't ride it enough to get a good feel for it. I figure if I am going to get the air can seals replaced, I might as well get a full service and get my older version of the McLeod up to date with all the of the improvements I have read about on this thread. and maybe see if I can get a tune that works for my 240 lb (109 kg) self on my current bike (2015 Trance Advance 2). 
I am thinking I should be asking for 15mm rebound shim over the stock 16mm. Also, apparently the yellow piston is a worthwhile upgrade. 
I don't jump I don't plough rock gardens, I don't do hot laps at bike parks or run shuttles. I do stand up and sprint (or I did when short track racing was still going on, and probably will again). I am led to believe that I should ask for a higher IFP pressure (like 350 - 400 psi) because I am big guy.

Any other suggestions on upgrades, tunes, etc. I should ask Hayes for while they have my shock?


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

I recently picked up a 190x45 metric version of the McLeod for my Santa Cruz Tallboy 4. I'm not quite getting all the travel so I decided and just ordered the King Can.

*Manitou King Can Conversion Kit for McLeod Shock*
size: 190x50

Then I started reading more and it sounds like maybe this is NOT for the metric version? Did I totally screw up? or do I just need 5mm of spacers to get this to fit when it arrives? Little confused, thanks! The length is correct but the stroke I see orderable is 50mm vs 45mm which I need.


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## Prescott (Jan 26, 2021)

I find King Can sizing quite confusing as well! 

Try contacting Hayes they always seem to be quick and helpful in their responses to me.


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

Good call, I rung them up and had Matt on the phone in a couple minutes, who wasn’t sure so he walked 30 feet over to the lead engineer of the shock who sent him some info and apologized that it wasn’t on the website. I likely will need a spacer. He will let me know more later today hopefully. 

That being said, my conversation with Matt has really made me glad that I went Manitou. Small company feel, super customer service oriented. Really has me thinking about one of their forks next too.


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

The 190x50 can is correct for my 190x45 metric, and they are sending me the spacer!


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

My 200 x 50 McLeod is only getting half of its stroke and it bottoms out hard. Any ideas?

Thanks!


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just like with any other shock, in that case there is either not enought oil in the damping chamber or there is something (oil, grease etc.) in the air chamber. Assuming by bottom out you mean lock up even with no air in the can?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Prophet Julio said:


> My 200 x 50 McLeod is only getting half of its stroke and it bottoms out hard. Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks!


Damper rebuild time. Either the main shaft seal is leaking and letting the damper run low on oil or the IFP seal is leaking and letting the IFP move up and hit the damper piston.

My original McLeod had the main seal leak this year. Almost 7 years old. New seal and oil and it's away again.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

This poor shock has 5,000 miles with no service. It is a hard stop in the damper assembly. Probably the the IFP moving up hitting the damper piston. 

Dougal, can I ship it to you for service?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Prophet Julio said:


> This poor shock has 5,000 miles with no service. It is a hard stop in the damper assembly. Probably the the IFP moving up hitting the damper piston.
> 
> Dougal, can I ship it to you for service?


I would say it is due for service. Hopefully no internal damage.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Prophet Julio said:


> This poor shock has 5,000 miles with no service. It is a hard stop in the damper assembly. Probably the the IFP moving up hitting the damper piston.
> 
> Dougal, can I ship it to you for service?


You could, but that's a long way just for a service. Manitou do service in the USA. It's also not a super complicated thing and I don't know why suspension shops are scared of them.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Dougal said:


> You could, but that's a long way just for a service. Manitou do service in the USA. It's also not a super complicated thing and I don't know why suspension shops are scared of them.


Any of the suspension tuners I have approached about any of my manitou products won't touch them as there are so few of them in BC that they don't want to carry all the possible spares for what would be a small handful of work per year.

That leaves us with Smith tech - and last I heard he left BC and is living in Alberta now - bit still distributing I believe.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

006_007 said:


> Any of the suspension tuners I have approached about any of my manitou products won't touch them as there are so few of them in BC that they don't want to carry all the possible spares for what would be a small handful of work per year.
> 
> That leaves us with Smith tech - and last I heard he left BC and is living in Alberta now - bit still distributing I believe.


You can do a service with o-rings, quad-rings and oil. Strange what these guys are scared of!


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Prophet Julio said:


> This poor shock has 5,000 miles with no service. It is a hard stop in the damper assembly. Probably the the IFP moving up hitting the damper piston.
> 
> Dougal, can I ship it to you for service?


Honestly, buy the 3 and 1 tool and you can do it yourself. Incredibly easy and the video's go into great detail.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

I have a few mcleods. I followed this thread pretty closely a while back, but it has been a while since i have visited. The mcleod on my trail bike has a rattle, probably has had it since new (a couple years ago now, but didnt use the bike a lot until recently), and i recently remembered reading on here somewhere that the rattle might go away if i put a click or two of compression on. i tried it and it worked - the rattling reduced significantly. anyone know what is wrong with my shock, what kind of servicing will stop this rattling? i like to ride the shock with the compression fully open, but it rattles pretty bad if i do. i'd search this thread for "rattle", but i am yet to find the "search this thread" function.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Search for "knock" not rattle


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sclyde2 said:


> I have a few mcleods. I followed this thread pretty closely a while back, but it has been a while since i have visited. The mcleod on my trail bike has a rattle, probably has had it since new (a couple years ago now, but didnt use the bike a lot until recently), and i recently remembered reading on here somewhere that the rattle might go away if i put a click or two of compression on. i tried it and it worked - the rattling reduced significantly. anyone know what is wrong with my shock, what kind of servicing will stop this rattling? i like to ride the shock with the compression fully open, but it rattles pretty bad if i do. i'd search this thread for "rattle", but i am yet to find the "search this thread" function.


The McLeod original tune was very sensitive to the amount of preload on the shims. If they got loose by even a fraction of a mm then the shims would float and knock.
The first place to check for this is the stop screw on the IPA compression knob. If your knock goes away when IPA is increased then simply adjusting the IPA stop screw will fix it.

There is a new kit which updates the McLeod internals to the Mara Inline piston and tune which stops this. It has a second layer to the shim stack against the compression piston ports to shut off the oil flow at change of direction before it can cause the shims to knock. It also has the updated gold piston with free-bleed.

Kit P/N is 142-37945. I am still awaiting mine. I missed the memo about the kit release.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Awesome. Can I get a new sticker pack with that to pretend my Mcleod is a Mara? heehee


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Dougal said:


> The McLeod original tune was very sensitive to the amount of preload on the shims. If they got loose by even a fraction of a mm then the shims would float and knock.
> The first place to check for this is the stop screw on the IPA compression knob. If your knock goes away when IPA is increased then simply adjusting the IPA stop screw will fix it.
> 
> There is a new kit which updates the McLeod internals to the Mara Inline piston and tune which stops this. It has a second layer to the shim stack against the compression piston ports to shut off the oil flow at change of direction before it can cause the shims to knock. It also has the updated gold piston with free-bleed.
> ...


Sending email to smithtec - I need a project to do in 109 days when ski season starts!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> The McLeod original tune was very sensitive to the amount of preload on the shims. If they got loose by even a fraction of a mm then the shims would float and knock.


But I thought the McLeod was suppose to be the hot ****?

Every year we get a product that supposedly fixes everything


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> But I thought the McLeod was suppose to be the hot ****?
> 
> Every year we get a product that supposedly fixes everything


It is and it was 5 years before it got updated to the Mara Inline. Do you have your brands mixed up?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

thanks for your suggestions dougal. i will attempt to find out where this IPA stop screw is, and adjust it. other than the rattle, the performance of my mcleods (both on my XC bike and on my trail bike) have been pretty awesome. i'm slowly building up my bike maintenance skills, gonna start doing a bit more with the suspension, beyond doing the lower fork service and shock air can. also gonna see what a shockwiz thinks about my setups, and maybe also look into this shim tuning stuff on the mcleods. got a fair bit of research to do.


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

The McLeod on my wife’s bike also made a knocking sound, tightening the small IPA screw at the side of the shock slightly made it go away. My Mara inline was ‘fine out of the box’. Not much difference between the two in use actually.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sclyde2 said:


> thanks for your suggestions dougal. i will attempt to find out where this IPA stop screw is, and adjust it. other than the rattle, the performance of my mcleods (both on my XC bike and on my trail bike) have been pretty awesome. i'm slowly building up my bike maintenance skills, gonna start doing a bit more with the suspension, beyond doing the lower fork service and shock air can. also gonna see what a shockwiz thinks about my setups, and maybe also look into this shim tuning stuff on the mcleods. got a fair bit of research to do.


If you hold the shock with the adjuster dials at the top looking at you, then the IPA lever stop-screw is on your left hand side and runs horizontal from left to right. Takes a 1.5mm hex key.
As you screw it in/out you'll notice the IPA lever start point move.


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## neil_240 (Jan 2, 2010)

Has anyone else had a problem with a shock pump not threading in far enough to push the pin on the IFP 3 in 1 adaptor? I am in the middle of servicing my shock and when I thread the adaptor into the shock and then thread the pump on it does not make contact with the pin inside the adaptor. I can shake the shock and pump when threaded together and hear the pin move back and forth, is this correct or is the inside pin too short or the adaptor too long in my case?


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Just got my Mclead back from Manitou for the Mara upgrades. Ended up buying/using something else while it was away. It's for sale with all the new bells and whistles and zero miles.









Sold-190x45. Manitou McLeod with Mara Tune/Internal Upgrades


190x45. Fresh from Manitou for “Mara” tune/internal upgrades, Zero miles since service/tune. Was going to use for new build but went other route. $215 Buyer pays shipping.




www.mtbr.com


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Pretty good price. What did Manitou charge you?


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

I’d have to look at the CC but it was a flat rate plus parts.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Anyone have any advice for what mounting hardware for a McLeod? I'm doing my first bike build and I don't really know anything about mounting shocks.

Does Fox shock hardware work? Rockshox hardware? Something different? I really have no idea


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## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

I’ve used Fox hardware successfully 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I use fox, rockshox, and that company that sells the needle bearing kits. All work fine.


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## nebio (Jul 25, 2019)

richulr said:


> Anyone have any advice for what mounting hardware for a McLeod? I'm doing my first bike build and I don't really know anything about mounting shocks.
> 
> Does Fox shock hardware work? Rockshox hardware? Something different? I really have no idea


When I mounted a Mara to my bike I just re-used the hardware from the fox DPS that came stock on my bike.
Has been working fine on my Mara without any issues.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

This is a McLeod I bought online going on a Chinese frame, so I don't have any hardware to reuse.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

richulr said:


> This is a McLeod I bought online going on a Chinese frame, so I don't have any hardware to reuse.


What about using the Manitou hardware ? Universal cycles appears to have the majority of sizes in stock.

I use the Manitou hardware in my Manitou shock and it works just fine.


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

006_007 said:


> What about using the Manitou hardware ? Universal cycles appears to have the majority of sizes in stock.
> 
> I use the Manitou hardware in my Manitou shock and it works just fine.


The Manitou hardware will work just fine. I've had the best luck with the Fox sets though because they use a through axle (not top-hats) and IGUS (plastic) bushing material which seems to last much longer, not so prone to becoming clunky.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Is it good to get hardware with bearings? Or is that really not needed?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

richulr said:


> Anyone have any advice for what mounting hardware for a McLeod? I'm doing my first bike build and I don't really know anything about mounting shocks.
> 
> Does Fox shock hardware work? Rockshox hardware? Something different? I really have no idea


Rockshox stuff normally fits great. Fox is 70/30 on whether it'll be good or loose. Bearings IMO aren't worth it. Manitou have their own hardware but limited size range in 3 piece type (pin and collars).


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Rockshox stuff normally fits great. Fox is 70/30 on whether it'll be good or loose. Bearings IMO aren't worth it. Manitou have their own hardware but limited size range in 3 piece type (pin and collars).


I defer to Dougal. I've dealt with a handful of Manitou rear shocks and perhaps just been lucky with Fox hardware and less lucky with Manitou's, Dougal does this every day.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

I know he's the Manitou info guy, so I'll take his advice. No bearings needed then. Thanks for all the replies


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## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Bearing discussion depends on your linkage - I like one bearing for my Druid as one rotates a ton. On my Ripley bearings are unnecessary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

I bought a McLeod and some rockshox mounting hardware. This is my first attempt at this. It seems the mounting hardware is too tight to fit in the eye. Do I just need to use more force? Or is there a bushing that needs to be removed?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

richulr said:


> I bought a McLeod and some rockshox mounting hardware. This is my first attempt at this. It seems the mounting hardware is too tight to fit in the eye. Do I just need to use more force? Or is there a bushing that needs to be removed?


Mounting hardware is typically a pretty tight press fit. If it just slid in with no force you would encounter movement under regular use.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

So a little grease and a little more force?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

richulr said:


> So a little grease and a little more force?


I do not grease the interface of the shock bushing/hardware. I am in the camp that believes the grease just captures unwanted particles and increases bushing wear.

The key will be slow even pressure. No hammering!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

This usually takes some kind of press, unless the tolerances are abnormally loose.


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## EJ_92606 (Jul 11, 2004)

Mine was very tight...I worked it in and out with a press and then with the edge of the workbench until it loosened up a bit. I also applied some slick honey to it. It's still snug but I feel it can actually move when it's supposed to now.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

So no removal of anything in the eyelet?


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## EJ_92606 (Jul 11, 2004)

I just re-used the Fox hardware that came on my DPS. I just took a look at the DPS and it had a DU bushing in it, so the Mara must have had one also. Are you using a press? You can't do it by hand.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

richulr said:


> So no removal of anything in the eyelet?


IME, rear shocks almost always come with bushings. Bushings are the things that the hardware presses into and rotates on. Bushings are usually only as wide as the shock body they press into, except the fox IGUS bushing "hats" are just a little thicker and can also be pried off easier due to this. Hats, because they are kind of shaped like a hat. Other bronze or impregnated metal bushings are usually only as wide as the shock body they press into. These should be pretty easy to identify. A bushing is a type of bearing. It's something that is made to be a wear item where something moves against or within it. Shock eyelets must have bearings of some kind, bushings are most common. There are a few needle and other bearing types that are used less frequently.

The Manitou ones I believe are actual Delrin Urethane (DU) bushings. With Rockshox I've seen DU and IGUS bushings of the same size. Fox is IGUS and roller-bearing, with IGUS being far more common.

Many people mistakenly call the shock hardware/reducers "bushings". These are not bushings.


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## EJ_92606 (Jul 11, 2004)

richulr said:


> So no removal of anything in the eyelet?


Post a picture of what you have. If it's an Igus bushing then yes, I think you need to remove the DU bushing in the shock, which requires a tool.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Different bushings also can have different tolerances. If you've got more it's worth mixing and matching to see what fits best.

If the frame either doesn't rotate that eyelet much or it runs on bearings, then it can be as tight as it wants.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

How do I add items to my media to post the pics?*nevermind. May have figured it out







*


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## EJ_92606 (Jul 11, 2004)

ok, that's what mine looks like. You need to press that into the eyelet. Ideally with a tool designed for that. It's possible to do it with a vice and a socket but I wouldn't advise it as you could damage your shock. Stop by a bike shop and ask them to help you out.


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## EJ_92606 (Jul 11, 2004)

You could also use a C clamp with a socket on one side. Or make a tool with a socket, bolt, nut, and some washers/spacers.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm all about DIY tools


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Thanks to everyone that replied. I used a C Clamp and socket and got it right in there.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

A long threaded bolt and a wingnut and you can make your own press "tool", You'll need something that the hardware can fit into as it presses into and past the end of the shock eyelet and then a small size socket or something for pressing the hardware out and similar for the bushing. The bushing gets to be the harder one, to have something that is exactly sized to the shock eyelet size that will push the bushing out (I went with one of the cheap tools that has these fittings).


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Anyone have a King can they don't need that will fit a trunnion 185x50? Figured I would check before ordering one.

Thanks


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## plazzer (Sep 25, 2021)

Hi! It`s possible to convert 200x51 McLeod to 57mm stroke by replacing corresponding King Can and remove this black spacer from the shaft? It`s inside the damper body, under piston head. It`s not an actual photo as I didn`t disassemble it yet. Thanks.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

Dougal said:


> The McLeod original tune was very sensitive to the amount of preload on the shims. If they got loose by even a fraction of a mm then the shims would float and knock.
> The first place to check for this is the stop screw on the IPA compression knob. If your knock goes away when IPA is increased then simply adjusting the IPA stop screw will fix it.
> 
> There is a new kit which updates the McLeod internals to the Mara Inline piston and tune which stops this. It has a second layer to the shim stack against the compression piston ports to shut off the oil flow at change of direction before it can cause the shims to knock. It also has the updated gold piston with free-bleed.
> ...


Curious what the kit includes? I already have the gold piston with free bleed. Is it just updated shims and tune?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

plazzer said:


> Hi! It`s possible to convert 200x51 McLeod to 57mm stroke by replacing corresponding King Can and remove this black spacer from the shaft? It`s inside the damper body, under piston head. It`s not an actual photo as I didn`t disassemble it yet. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 1949922


No. The 200x51 is the same as the 190x51 but with a longer shock body. That "spacer" is an integral part of the damper.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Anyone know if there is a guide online to give what psi is recommended for certain body weights for the McLeod? Something to use as a starter to start the fine tuning. I weight about 265 all kitted up and wonder where I should start with the psi.

Thanks.


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## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

My McLeod has started making a whooshing noise so Im thinking it might be time for a rebuild. Does Hayes-Manitou service shocks? I just read up above there is an update kit? Ive replaced the seals on fox shocks before and wonder if I could do this myself or I should just send it to someone.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

evan9r said:


> My McLeod has started making a whooshing noise so Im thinking it might be time for a rebuild. Does Hayes-Manitou service shocks? I just read up above there is an update kit? Ive replaced the seals on fox shocks before and wonder if I could do this myself or I should just send it to someone.


Yes Hayes services shocks. They can install the update kits if they have stock. It's the new piston and shims like the Mara.


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## J Hammond (Dec 26, 2020)

Not sure if I’m posting this in the right area if not I apologize, I’ve read through this thread as well as a few others but have some questions where direct answers or knowledge would be greatly appreciated.
I have a 2021 Norco Fluid FS2, front fork has been converted to air and travel changed to 140mm. I weigh about 260 lbs suited up, I find the stock rear shock severely lacking and have read amazing things about the Manitou Mcleod for heavier riders. So I’m looking at the new Manitou Mara.
Stock shock is 190x45 for 120mm rear travel. Could I long stroke, buy a 190x50 and put a shim under the bottom out bumper reduce it to even 190x47.5 for 125mm travel?
Is their a recommended shim stack change for heavier riders? 
I’m also understanding that the king can is similar to Rockshox Debonair, larger negative chamber worse for heavier riders?
I’m still not fully versed on spring weight and cannot find a proper leverage curve for my bike other than the similar Norco Optic C3.
Any advice or input would again be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your time.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

J Hammond said:


> Not sure if I’m posting this in the right area if not I apologize, I’ve read through this thread as well as a few others but have some questions where direct answers or knowledge would be greatly appreciated.
> I have a 2021 Norco Fluid FS2, front fork has been converted to air and travel changed to 140mm. I weigh about 260 lbs suited up, I find the stock rear shock severely lacking and have read amazing things about the Manitou Mcleod for heavier riders. So I’m looking at the new Manitou Mara.
> Stock shock is 190x45 for 120mm rear travel. Could I long stroke, buy a 190x50 and put a shim under the bottom out bumper reduce it to even 190x47.5 for 125mm travel?
> Is their a recommended shim stack change for heavier riders?
> ...


The King-Can is bigger positive volume with a slightly larger negative to reduce negative compression ratio. You won't need or want a king-can on a short stroke shock.
Yes you can run the imperial 190x50 (7.5x2") if your frame has enough clearance. You will have to carefully check that first.


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## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Hi, I tried to search in this thread but I can't seem to find my answer. I just bought a new to me Yeti SB115 that has a pretty tight space for the linkage side eyelet to squeeze into. 

I have a Manitou Mara Pro on hand and I have confirmed that the linkage will hit the hex part of the shock body on the Mara Pro.

Are the Mara Pro and Mcleod/Mara IL shock bodies the same dimensions right at the end of the shock body that is hex shaped? I have attached an image for reference.









Thank you


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Yes, the hex part is the same, the differences are a bit further back (diameter of the can itself)


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## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

piciu256 said:


> Yes, the hex part is the same, the differences are a bit further back (diameter of the can itself)


Thanks for the info.

Crazy thought here.....I want to try one of these Mcleods on my SB115, my though is to put the shock body on a lathed and turn down the hex portion of the end of the body until it doesn't foul the linkage on the SB115. How will I then back off the body from the top eyelet assembly? Good ole strap wrench. Does anyone with experience taking one of these apart see any glaring issues with my diabolical plan?

Also, can I turn a 210x50 Mcleod into a 190x45?

Thanks


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

jmvar said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Crazy thought here.....I want to try one of these Mcleods on my SB115, my though is to put the shock body on a lathed and turn down the hex portion of the end of the body until it doesn't foul the linkage on the SB115. How will I then back off the body from the top eyelet assembly? Good ole strap wrench. Does anyone with experience taking one of these apart see any glaring issues with my diabolical plan?
> 
> ...


yea just dont use the king can. should be fine i'd imagine.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Removing the hex should be fine I reckon, it will be weaker structurally, but nothing actually there.
Also, simple math suggests if you want to get 210x50 (210x55 with a travel reducing spacer) to be 190 in length, the most travel you can get is 45mm, so should be doable.


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## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Thanks!


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

IPA lever and rebound knob both frozen/stuck. Loosened the hex/screw but nothing. Doesn't budge. Any ideas what would cause it to do that? Quick fix?


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

theres two small 1.5mm (i think) grub screws, i think one vertical one horizontal - did you try adjusting those?


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

I found 3, I know one is for the rebound, loosened all 3, IPA lever won't budge. Was able to get the rebound dial moving.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Id send Dougal a message. Maybe the rebound needle needs to be manipulated in a certain way while pulling on the dial shaft or something.


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## jdang307 (May 30, 2015)

So I was able to jar it loose. Took my blow dryer to it (hail mary) and it finally jarred loose. It's still really stiff, but it's moveable. Maybe it was dirt/grease/grime? Southern California, so dry dusty conditions most of the time but never thought it would get behind there and seize both the IPA and rebound adjusters. This actually happened in the middle of summer so it wasn't because of cold or anything. Wondering if I could/can shoot some cleaner back there and then some lubrication.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FactoryMatt said:


> Id send Dougal a message. Maybe the rebound needle needs to be manipulated in a certain way while pulling on the dial shaft or something.


I've never seen or fixed that issue.


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## G60Dub (Mar 24, 2021)

jmvar said:


> Hi, I tried to search in this thread but I can't seem to find my answer. I just bought a new to me Yeti SB115 that has a pretty tight space for the linkage side eyelet to squeeze into.
> 
> I have a Manitou Mara Pro on hand and I have confirmed that the linkage will hit the hex part of the shock body on the Mara Pro.
> 
> ...



I hate to hijack but do the Mara Rebound and IPA lever shown in that image fit a stock McLeod?
Asking for a mate, honest  A bit of extra anodized bling never hurts!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

G60Dub said:


> I hate to hijack but do the Mara Rebound and IPA lever shown in that image fit a stock McLeod?
> Asking for a mate, honest  A bit of extra anodized bling never hurts!


Yes.


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## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Dougal said:


> No clicks on rebound. It's smooth for the whole rotation.
> 
> I just took the knobs off mine for a look. Yes they've been designed to fit a return spring in there for remote operation of the IPA.


I just picked up a new old stock mcleod and came in here to ask if it's normal for the rebound know to not have any clicks. A quick search answered my question, just posting again in case anyone has the same question and to thank the contributors.


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## ibis315 (Oct 17, 2005)

jmvar said:


> I just picked up a new old stock mcleod and came in here to ask if it's normal for the rebound know to not have any clicks. A quick search answered my question, just posting again in case anyone has the same question and to thank the contributors.


Normal. No clicks.


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

G60Dub said:


> I hate to hijack but do the Mara Rebound and IPA lever shown in that image fit a stock McLeod?
> Asking for a mate, honest  A bit of extra anodized bling never hurts!


Yes but not advisable, I put McLeod knobs on my Mara. The Mara rebound knob is too easily turned when adjusting the IPA.


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## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Picked up a Mcleod to try out with a Yeti SB115 (uses a 190x45 shock) that is going to see rock XC riding that always ends down a DH trail. Interestingly it looks like it has the Mara knobs on it.
I weigh 170 lbs (77 KG) ready to ride. I haven't tried the shock yet as I am waiting for hardware. Would this shock benefit from the king can at my weight and leverage ratio for the frame?


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

As I Change another frame I want to Change McLeod 216*63 to 230*60. Thus I would Need another shock head upper eye.
Where can I get one, which Order Number has IT and how much does it Cost?

Cheers

Patrick


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> As I Change another frame I want to Change McLeod 216*63 to 230*60. Thus I would Need another shock head upper eye.
> Where can I get one, which Order Number has IT and how much does it Cost?
> 
> Cheers
> ...


It's not a feasible change. You're talking shaft, needle, air-can, damper body and possibly eyelet assembly. Those parts aren't all readily available.
You'd be keeping only the damper piston pieces and seal-head.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> It's not a feasible change. You're talking shaft, needle, air-can, damper body and possibly eyelet assembly. Those parts aren't all readily available.
> You'd be keeping only the damper piston pieces and seal-head.


Acpity. I will try to get someone make me an externer. Common stuff in motorcycle shox.
You can even find those in Amazon. Looks Like a small link


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## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

I tried on a dedicated post but no replies, maybe here i will get better traction 

Its time to service the mcleod i have on my TB3. did many air can resets and cleaning / greasing seals.
its performing well, no complaints.

is the list below comprehensive for the service? its been more than three years since built...
seal kit (full kit? air can?)
Motorex 2.5W
Slickoleum
3-in-1 tool

moreover, there is a two part video showing the full rebuild with top cap removal and seal replacement on the compression/rebound needle which kind of looks a bit involving.

will an air can + "IFP" service + bleed be enough (see video1 and video2) while replacing all seals I run into while at it?

thanks
Oren


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> I tried on a dedicated post but no replies, maybe here i will get better traction
> 
> Its time to service the mcleod i have on my TB3. did many air can resets and cleaning / greasing seals.
> its performing well, no complaints.
> ...


I have never seen a rebound needle seal fail on one of these. So there's no reason to get in there and change it. All the dynamic seals and an oil change should see you right.


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