# Platform pedals and shoes or clipless?



## ads-bully (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I am just curious what preference people have for their bikepacking rigs in regards to pedals/footwear.

I run clipless on all my mtb's but with my intent to do some multi day rides (3-4 days) I am wondering if I would be better off going with a platform pedal and light shoes such as the vibram fivefinger to reduce the need to carry additional shoes on top of cycling shoes.

Downside is that the clipless are more efficient and better IMO in technical conditions.

Does anyone have ideas on flats they can provide or a review of the shoes?

Cheers


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

Cass Gilbert recently went through these issues going to platforms (search While Out Riding). I am personally going all flats now for bikepacking. I have some Powergrip straps but I think I will soon ditch those too and just put the spikes back on the pedals.

I like the BlackSpire pedals.


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## eastman115 (Dec 6, 2009)

I happily use a platform pedal and 5-10 Impact shoes. I like being able to walk around without the grinding cleat under my foot. Hike-a-biking is much easier as well. I switched to this set up 2 years ago after using clipless pedals for many years.


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## Central Scrutinizer (Aug 30, 2005)

+1 for flats for the reasons eastman115 mentioned.


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## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

I personally prefer clipless MTB shoes. I've had no issues cranking out 100+ mi days with that setup. I know others that have had great success with platform. My rides tend to be less hike-a-bike and more ride-a-bike, but if there were more hike-a-bike involved I might change my mind. I keep some Luna sandals in my bags for downtime, which actually kinda sucks because I have size US13 feet so they take up a lot of space. For once, I'm envious of ladies with small feet in that area.


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## ads-bully (Feb 26, 2013)

I feel your pain hunter as I am 6'5 and have large feet also.. That is one reason for my post as I am trying to save some room and weight.. Can always take thongs but not always practical


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

I switched from clickies to BMX pedals a few years ago because of foot pain on longer rides. Better cleated shoes or different pedals migh thave helped, but I don`t see any reason to do a bunch of expensive experimenting when I already have a cheap solution. My personal preference is any pedal with pins and a large surface (any pedal fitting that description works as well for me as any other) with heavy soled walking shoes. Current shoes, New Balance model 811, are my favorites so far. YMMV.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ads-bully said:


> Sorry if this has been covered before, but I am just curious what preference people have for their bikepacking rigs in regards to pedals/footwear.
> 
> I run clipless on all my mtb's but with my intent to do some multi day rides (3-4 days) I am wondering if I would be better off going with a platform pedal and light shoes such as the vibram fivefinger to reduce the need to carry additional shoes on top of cycling shoes.
> 
> ...












I find real mountain bike shoes [ie. 5.10 Impact] and good flat pedals better for technical riding than clipless so that's what I ride on the trails. I also don't find them less efficient for cranking out the miles.










For bikepacking I have worn a variety of shoes including trail runners and watershoes. My current bikepacking shoes are 5.10 approach shoes for the sticky stiff sole and great hike-a-bility.










I have carried FiveFingers, but I don't find them comfortable for riding or hike-a-bike [way too flexible even with big pedals]. Although they would work in a pinch if I had to. They are a good option if you need to cross rivers a bunch and don't want to soak your main bike shoes while still getting good traction in the water.










Generally I find with a lightweight shoes [trail runner, approach shoe, watershoe] I don't need a 2nd pair of shoes on tour because they are comfortable on and off the bike and they dry well so my feet aren't overly sweaty.










To get the full performance from flats pedals you need a pair with lots of sharp traction pins and a shoe with a sole that mates up well. Not all shoes and pedals work well together. For example many trail runners and hiking shoes have a hard plastic arch that is very slippery on a flat pedal. That's why bike specific shoes or approach shoes with a flat full rubber sole work well.


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## ads-bully (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks very much for the reply Vik.. Very comprehensive and certainly puts it into perspective and sheds some light on the fivefingers shoes. Seems I will need to look a little further.
I do like the Spank pedals though and will look into getting a pair of them in the future, at least for my beach riding as a minimum..


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## Tinman (Aug 18, 2013)

For what you describe toe clips the simple plastic with no straps work well. I use them (MTB quill peddles), have removed, reinstalled , tried both and they definitely help pedaling efficiency via any shoe or hiking boot though, I prefer my stiff sole, specific purpose , MTB shoe best.


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

Having tried all sorts of clipless pedal and shoe combos over the last 15 years I have found that for all general riding and bikepacking TNF Hedgehog II shoes with Shimano MX30 BMX pedals with longer pins are the sweet spot for me.

Plenty grippy enough on and off the bike, Gore-Tex (I live in the UK) and not too dorky with shorts and T in the pub


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## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

Just to second what Vik wrote, I've settled on flats and 5.10 approach shoes for the same reasons he cites. I take one pair of shoes, along with a pair of the superlight Teva Mush flipflops. For me, there's not much loss of efficiency, and I appreciate being able to move my feet around on the pedals after hour 8 on the bike! Vik already posted some of the other advantages.

I switched from the 5.10 Guide Tennies to the new Aescent (pictured in Vik's post) for my last tour, and have been very happy with them--just a tad stiffer, and much better ventilation. I also run the same pedals he's posted. Weird.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

I use Egg Beaters with either Shimano or Pearl Izumi shoes.

The Pearl Izumi X-Alps are great for long hike-a-bike sections: (MTB FOOTWEAR).

Shimano Mountain Touring shoes are good for walking too, although the soles are a little stiffer. They even have a high-top version, which provides some extra ankle support when walking: (Shoes).
The low-top is nice too: (Shoes)

I like the control of clipless pedals. But it's really a matter of personal preference. Walking with Egg Beater cleats can be a little noisy on rocks, but it works fine.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

For efficiency and control I use clipless pedals. I have an older pair of Pearl lace ups, similar to those Toby posted, that work well on the bike and around camp and such. I pair them up with some Shimano pd-m424 (I got for free) as the platform provides some added comfort and efficiency, and I can also use them like platforms if need be. 

I also carry a pair of Vibram KSOs, usually strapped to my seat or bar bag, just in case.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

albeant said:


> and I appreciate being able to move my feet around on the pedals after hour 8 on the bike!


+1
For all the forum threads and jaw jacking about multiple hand positions, you`d think more people would object to having their feet welded to one position on the pedals. No matter how much float in a cleat system, there`s just no way you`re going to move your feet front to rear or side to side when your dogs are barking.


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## ads-bully (Feb 26, 2013)

I currently have all my mountain bikes set up with Time ATAC pedals with a SIDI shoe. I really like the pedals for getting into and out of but so far the longest I have been in them was about 5 hours.. They were starting to send my toes numb by this point.. Hence the need for flats and shoes.. I do not mind walking around in my SIDI's but they are not really practical for the relaxation side of the ride.. I think the lightweight shoe option may work for me with some flats for those longer epic rides..


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## rti27 (Dec 9, 2012)

I have ridden my north face hiking shoes and platforms pedals many times and i didn't notice much power loss from my normal spd set up. 
maintain good form in your pedal stroke even though the clips are present makes a big difference.
the north face hiking shoe is very stiff, more comfortable for biking than the hiking.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

rodar y rodar said:


> +1
> For all the forum threads and jaw jacking about multiple hand positions, you`d think more people would object to having their feet welded to one position on the pedals. No matter how much float in a cleat system, there`s just no way you`re going to move your feet front to rear or side to side when your dogs are barking.


IMO that can be a big downside to flats. Having to use energy to keep your feet on the pedals can't get annoying. But on that note, has anyone tryed Holdfast staps? I have been wanting a set for my commuter.

I also wanted to add that I have worn my Five Fingers on the ride to work quite a few times and have almost lost my pinky toe enough times that I would hate to try them off road.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

big_papa_nuts said:


> IMO that can be a big downside to flats. Having to use energy to keep your feet on the pedals can't get annoying.


Sort of like you need to match your cleat to the pedal system you are using and sometimes modify your shoe's sole to work with a clipless pedal...you need to pick a shoe and a flat pedal that work well together.

If you are putting energy into keeping your feet on the pedals you aren't using well matched gear. I ride very rough terrain at high speed on my FS MTB and I don't spend any energy worrying about my shoes coming off my pedals or heck even moving on them.

For casual city riding I'll wear anything, but for long hours of riding I want a hassle free shoe + pedal experience.



big_papa_nuts said:


> I also wanted to add that I have worn my Five Fingers on the ride to work quite a few times and have almost lost my pinky toe enough times that I would hate to try them off road.


+1 - I tend to bash my feet on stuff in techy terrain so a shoe with a solid front and side rand is beneficial even if I don't crash.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

I`m not sure exactly what you mean about energy to keep my feet on the pedals, but I DO appreciate my feet not boucning off on bumpy stuff. For me, that was the biggest downside to giving up my cleats. There`s no free lunch.


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## ward (Aug 20, 2009)

I use a combination of old school/new school. Traditional "toe clip"/pedal combinations are generaly too narrow under foot causing the straps to get caught up in the tread of shoes & light hikers as you go in and out of the toe clip. The newer, wider flats w/ they're traction pins work much better. They are generaly longer front to back as well though so traditional toe clip structures need to be modified to fit correctly. I cut the orriginal mounting flange (designed to mount to the front of a "cage" pedal) completely off and "size' the toe clip to my shoes; position them for my ideal possition; then drill them to be bolted/screwed directly to the top of the flat pedal. W/ some pedals you can use existing traction pin holes and with these, I was able to use some old derrailuer adjustment screws that had the same threads as the traction pins.

These allow me to use any type of shoe, crank 'em down, run 'em loose or even tie 'em up to the pedal and use 'em upside down as "open" flats. Cranked down, the traction pins make for a very solid, traditional conection and with the wider platform, the straps at the base are much less likely to get caught up on your shoes than the toe clip systems we used in the old days.

Also, with most plastic toe clips, you can dip them in boiling water for a couple minutes (use the pedal as a handle) to make them malable and re-shape them somewhat to fit the bigger toe's of light hikers, larger shoes, etc. I start w/ Lg. sized toe clips so after all the mod's the strap ends up far enough back over my foot to get a good "cinch".



Tied up for "open" flat use


My "adventure shoes" are an older pair of Lake's that I had re-soled with Vibram hiking soles. Great pedaling performance and darn good hiking performance as well. If the trip was going to be more hiking than biking, I might choose to use a light hiker instead for a little more hiking comfort. But if more pedaling, I prefer somthing w/ an insole meant for pedaling.


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

I like to be clipped in, unless I'm riding during winter and need big boots. I'm just used to clipless pedals, so it is more familiar to me. I pack extra lightweight shoes, in case I do want to hike around for a bit. But like someone else mentioned, I go out for more ride-a-bike than hike-a-bike.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

vikb said:


> Generally I find with a lightweight shoes [trail runner, approach shoe, watershoe] I don't need a 2nd pair of shoes on tour because they are comfortable on and off the bike and they dry well so my feet aren't overly sweaty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've got a pair of these 5.10 approach shoes, and they are really great on the bike, in addition to lots of other applications. I still wear my Freerider VXis when I'm trail riding, but I will be using the Aescents for dinking around town and bike packing.


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## tomikazi (Jun 12, 2013)

Bontrager alloy pedals, strapless toeclips. Shimano MTB shoes for stiffness/support but the plug will be staying in the bottom. It's what I started out with in the 80's, and haven't had a reason to change...yet., but now "ward's" platform mod has me thinking. 

Maybe because I've seen too many "tipovers" from my careless friends clipped in. I did see one buddy heading OTB and was able to unclick jump over bars and land on his feet. I am nowhere close to having that kind of quickness, and I accept that!


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

last overnighter I did, I used my hunting boots, but I was hunting. Worked well. 
So it depends on the situation. I can go either platform or clipless, just depends on what else is going on.


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## SuPrBuGmAn (Jun 20, 2009)

I run flats on my bikes, Welgo MG1s and they mate up well with $30 Airwalks from Payless Shoes. The soles wear through in less than a year, but for $30, who gives a crap?


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

I've been running Shimano MT90s for the last 7 winters & Time Atacs forever. 
Great for when you're lost in the bush or at the pub on an overnight mission.


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## Dusza (Feb 18, 2011)

For me it's clipless for riding long routes in not too technical terrain, I don't feel confident riding difficult descents when attached to the bike. They also gave me a bad case of numb toe... took 6 months to cure after a week long ride...
Flats are the best choice for me when the going gets rough, never had problems with feet bouncing off of pedals - a good, big platform with proper rubber on your feet to match will stand it's ground. It's also more convenient to walk around, weather it's hike-a-bike or plain sightseeing.

After trying both worlds on longer tours, I know a pair of platforms fits my needs and riding style better.

The way I see it:
Clipless = performance = racey type riding
Flats = comfort = general off road touring and technical terrain


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## VO2 Lax (Jan 2, 2011)

hillharman said:


> I've got a pair of these 5.10 approach shoes, and they are really great on the bike, in addition to lots of other applications. I still wear my Freerider VXis when I'm trail riding, but I will be using the Aescents for dinking around town and bike packing.


I took Viks suggestion on these Aescents and they are sweet! What's sweeter is I found a pair on Geartrade for $46 in my size. They grip my VP Vice pedals like glue, just the right amount of stiffness and flatness for pedaling, the right amount of curve at the front for hiking, the the toe box is nice and wide for your foot to swell on hot days! Perfect for bikepacking IMO.


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## Medic Zero (Jun 8, 2011)

Flats. I tend to wear mountain biking shoes with them as I like a stiff sole, especially when I'm cycling for long periods. With either my 5.11 Minaars or my Chrome Kursks I'm comfortable walking or hiking for a bit in them.


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## csmo (Aug 11, 2012)

Albeant and Vik:

Have you continued to be happy with the Aescents? I am interested in them for general trail riding of the moderately technical sort. Who knows if I am trail riding/doing XC country/or all mountain riding! Just riding in varying conditions for varying lengths of time in Virginia. The Aescents sound good b/c of their stiffness and their grip. The Freeriders smooth sole in the forefoot is unappealing.

Many thanks!



albeant said:


> Just to second what Vik wrote, I've settled on flats and 5.10 approach shoes for the same reasons he cites. I take one pair of shoes, along with a pair of the superlight Teva Mush flipflops. For me, there's not much loss of efficiency, and I appreciate being able to move my feet around on the pedals after hour 8 on the bike! Vik already posted some of the other advantages.
> 
> I switched from the 5.10 Guide Tennies to the new Aescent (pictured in Vik's post) for my last tour, and have been very happy with them--just a tad stiffer, and much better ventilation. I also run the same pedals he's posted. Weird.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

csmo said:


> Albeant and Vik:
> 
> Have you continued to be happy with the Aescents? I am interested in them for general trail riding of the moderately technical sort. Who knows if I am trail riding/doing XC country/or all mountain riding! Just riding in varying conditions for varying lengths of time in Virginia. The Aescents sound good b/c of their stiffness and their grip. The Freeriders smooth sole in the forefoot is unappealing.
> 
> Many thanks!


Just a quick update. The Aescents are stiff and comfortable on the bike and grip well to the pins on my flat pedals. I was a bit surprised to find the rubber sole is not anywhere close to as sticky as my 5.10 bike shoes. As an example on any man made surfaces [wood, tile, stone, etc...] they are crazy slippery if there is any moisture around. To the point of being dangerous. My 5.10 bike shoes grip like crazy glue on any surface.

My unscientific durometer test [poking a pen tip into the soles] demonstrates the Aescents barely deform while my 5.10 bike shoes readily deform with the same pressure.

On rough/textured surfaces the Ascents grip fine. I want to wear them in a bunch more to see if 1) they get more flexible and 2) if the soles break in at all or if they stay hard.

If they were as grippy as my 5.10 bike shoes I would say they were a winner for sure. As is I want to evaluate them a while longer.

I guess one other thing I should share on the Aescents they do not feel like they have much cushioning. They have a firm feel. I kind of like that, but if you are a pounder when you walk you may find them uncomfortable. If you are used to walking in barefoot style footwear you won't have an issue.

For another data point I reviewed a pair of Scarpa Rapid Light shoes on my blog:

vikapproved | Scarpa Rapid Light Shoe Review

They were too flexible for me to be comfortable pedalling all day, but the sole was nice and grippy on all surfaces unlike the Aescents.


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## csmo (Aug 11, 2012)

Many thanks! All very good to know. Stiff sounds good to me (I use Sidis now) but slippery off the bike on wet surfaces sounds bad--especially as I'd like to use them as more than dedicated on the bike shoes. As you note, perhaps they will become less slippery as they wear in. I am willing and ready to make the shift to platforms but it's not urgent. Would you say the Aescents for trail riding are more or less capable than your other 5.10s? 

Thanks again


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

csmo said:


> Would you say the Aescents for trail riding are more or less capable than your other 5.10s?
> 
> Thanks again


Much less capable. I wouldn't even entertain the thought of going trail riding in them vs. my normal shoe a 5.10 Impact Low.

OTOH the Impact Lows feel like overkill for my bikepacking trips.

I did some research and the Aescents are supposed to be made with the same S1 rubber sole as the Impact Lows and 5.10 points to the softness of the rubber and traction as a feature of the Aescents. Something is wrong. Either the marketing guys wrote the wrong copy or the shoes were made with the wrong rubber.

I sent a question in directly to 5.10. If I get a useful reply I will share it.


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## csmo (Aug 11, 2012)

Very helpful. Thanks. Much appreciated. I'll be curious to read your updates and, if you receive one, a reply from 5.10.

Best wishes



vikb said:


> Much less capable. I wouldn't even entertain the thought of going trail riding in them vs. my normal shoe a 5.10 Impact Low.
> 
> OTOH the Impact Lows feel like overkill for my bikepacking trips.
> 
> ...


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

So what about being able to pull up when pedaling? Say on a steep climb. How does that transfer with flat pedals? I'm a through and through clipless guy who is flat pedal curious.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

sherpaxc said:


> So what about being able to pull up when pedaling? Say on a steep climb. How does that transfer with flat pedals? I'm a through and through clipless guy who is flat pedal curious.


The short answer from the flat pedal point of view is that it is bad form to pull up on the pedals, and you'll become a better rider by learning how to stop doing it (i.e. by riding flats).


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

How so? Honestly, to me that doesn't compute. I have almost zero experience with flats though. I ask because I will be doing the Colorado trail this summer. I've done it before clipped in, but I'm still curious about flats and being able to use a shoe like what vik posted. There is a fair amount of hike a biking on that trail. Sargents Mesa. Ugh.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

sherpaxc said:


> How so? Honestly, to me that doesn't compute. I have almost zero experience with flats though. I ask because I will be doing the Colorado trail this summer. I've done it before clipped in, but I'm still curious about flats and being able to use a shoe like what vik posted. There is a fair amount of hike a biking on that trail. Sargents Mesa. Ugh.


I don't know that I could explain it, but I took this advice in switching to flats, and it has some traction for me. It forces you to keep your wait down through your feet which ultimately leads to more stable and powerful pedaling.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

All I can say is that after being a clipped in guy for more than a decade I went to flats and I have yet to ever want to be back clipped in.

Perfect Pedal Strokes | Road Bike Rider

I tried both on my commute this fall just because I still own some clipless pedals/shoes and I have rain covers that work well with them. I set my PR for my commute on flats and approach shoes. I never broke it with clipless.

I spend lots of time climbing on tour and on trail rides. The guys who are strong ride strong regardless of pedal choices and the guys who you would expect to be slower are slower. I have not seen any breakdown of performance based on pedal choice.

The only thing I will add is that like clipless pedals and shoes/cleats you need to mate flat pedals to the correct shoe. If you ride a poor choice of footwear/flat pedals you may not perform well.

Given the cost it's a pretty easy thing to try for yourself and see what you think.


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

Are these any good?
Nashbar Verge Platform Pedals - Normal Shipping Ground

I'm so close to wanting to just pull the trigger and try them out. I have some trail running shoes that I think would work well enough to give it a shot. No plastic on the bottom and fairly flat/all rubber. I don't want to dive in and spend $100 on pedals. And Nashbar will let me return them if I don't like them.


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## wahday (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm a clipless rider myself but these look decent. My son has some huge platform pedals and I like them as well. I think these look decent. Important points are metal platform and replaceable pins which it has. Price is good so I say go for it.


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## Gritter (Dec 21, 2010)

I just went back to clipless after riding platforms for as long as I could. I kept looking down, and obsessed over my feet being perfectly positioned on the platforms. I never did that before I ever tried clipless, so I think maybe _once you go clipless, you can never go back_, so be careful.

I tried to go "back" to platforms after being used to Time ATAC clipless, but I much prefer the secure and automatic perfect positioning, as well as my stiffer soles on the shoes.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

sherpaxc said:


> How so? Honestly, to me that doesn't compute. I have almost zero experience with flats though. I ask because I will be doing the Colorado trail this summer. I've done it before clipped in, but I'm still curious about flats and being able to use a shoe like what vik posted. There is a fair amount of hike a biking on that trail. Sargents Mesa. Ugh.


I think that hillharman was talking about pulling up on the pedals for bunny hopping and such, and you were talking about pulling up on the pedals while pedaling. Pulling up on your pedals for bunny hopping is regarded by people with proper bunny hopping technique as a crutch you can use with clipless pedals that will prevent you from developing the proper technique. You actually can pull pretty far around the pedaling circle with flats, just not as far as clipless.

I started riding clipless just before Shimano came out with SPDs, and have them on all of my bikes. Last February I started trying platforms on my full suspension bike and I really like them. I have a pair of Shimano MT43s, which are clipless MTB touring shoes or something like that. If I was going to do the Tour Divide I would use those. For the Colorado trail I would definitely use platforms, I have 5.10 Impact Highs that I really like.

There are pluses and minuses for both systems. Just get some platforms and try them out. You should learn things about riding a bike whether you end up liking them or not.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Welnic said:


> Pulling up on your pedals for bunny hopping is regarded by people with proper bunny hopping technique as a crutch you can use with clipless pedals that will prevent you from developing the proper technique.


I've really never understood that argument. Seems to me that "lifting" your bike with clipless pedals is a pretty useful technique at times--and I don't see any downsides. Sure, a traditional clipless-free bunny hop is great too. Maybe being able to do both types, depending on terrain, speed, etc., is best of all?


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## NorCalTaz (Nov 12, 2013)

I am a noob and am a bit intimidated to be "clipped in", so I went with flats, I found these at my LBS - Forte Convert Platform . I use them with my Merrell hiking shoes, so far it is a great setup for me for now, my feet stay stuck and are easy to get on the ground when I need them. Oh, in the interest of full disclosure, I did slip once with them and the pedal hit my shin, hurt like hell! Small trade off, I am on the north side of a half-century and just don't bounce that well anymore


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## FatCloud (May 6, 2013)

I've been thinking of trying clipless for day rides now that I have a commuter bike and then I just read this thread and made me realize, **** that I don't need it. Plus it impresses people more when you keep up without them (which is funny since clipless add near zero added power).

Touring I would NEVER bring clipless. The biggest reason is that you're just asking for something else to break. The same reason I like barend shifters not STIs (I have a cross bike) for that reason too. I was reading an article of accomplished bike tourers and the one thing they all seemed to answer the same was what is the one thing you didn't bring that you should have and they all agreed pedal bolts. **** that. I don't have to carry extra tools or extra shoes. If you are touring, bring flats. Around town, do what's comfortable. But get comfie on flats and be a badass.


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## Lap dog (Dec 26, 2013)

A problem I find with five ten shoes is how they soak up water and take a long time to dry. Not good for your feet on long wet rides! Otherwise platforms are great for touring.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Lap dog said:


> A problem I find with five ten shoes is how they soak up water and take a long time to dry. Not good for your feet on long wet rides! Otherwise platforms are great for touring.


+1 - that's definitely an issue.

The lighter duty trail runners I've used dried reasonably well, but they weren't great to bike in or for technical hike a bike sections where lateral stability was important.

So far I have not found the "ideal" shoe for bikepacking, but I have a few good options I can pick from depending on what the trip will entail.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Just an update on the 5.10 Ascents I tried out. They ended up being too slippery to wear off the bike so I returned them. The store I bought them from agreed the rubber on the sole was way hard and not very grippy compared to the Stealth rubber used on 5.10's bike shoes. They are also blowing these shoes out at nearly 50% off after just getting them in late last year. In case anyone in Canada wants a cheap pair.










I settled on a pair of these 5.10 Freerider Elements. They are less bulky than the 5.10 Impact Low shoes I wear for trail riding, but they share a very grippy sole and low stable foot position. They are moderately stiff for all day riding comfort.

The main downside is they don't dry fast.










I have some lighter duty shoes with mesh construction I'll have to consider if the trip looks uber wet. These shoes are supposed to be "weatherized", but no low cut shoe like this will stay dry during an extended rainy period. Although you could team them up with some mini-gators to keep them dry inside a bit longer.

As noted above I haven't found the perfect bikepacking shoe yet, but these will work for the majority of my trips. :thumbsup:


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## dream4est (May 21, 2003)

I am running the same shoes as Vik posted, the Freerider Elements. I use a Louis Garneau shoe cover, the same as I use for Hi-Impacts and trail runners. With the shoe covers I can get my Hi-Impacts to stay dry for hours riding or shoveling snow (I do have the Impacts sprayed with waterproofer as well- helps tons).

So far, no real world data. I was hoping the Freerider Elements could work better in long-term hike-a-bike conditions, like AZT750 or CTR. Hi-Impacts suck at that- they only work well for short term day hiking IMO. 

Pedals are Black Ops Nylo-Pro. I was using trail runners but on my third big ride last year I developed knee pain. I think I wear out the trail runners and they flex too much- or something. I wasnt getting proper grip and drive like with Hi-Impacts so I am back to 5.10. I hope this works I dont want to ride clipless anymore.


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

I've also settled on the Freeriders (though not the Elements). I've put some pretty good mileage on them and a few extended rides 5+ hours and they were super comfy. I think they hike a bike just fine too. 

Vik, let us know how the Elements hold up. I'm interested in a pair for the Colorado Trail.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sherpaxc said:


> Vik, let us know how the Elements hold up. I'm interested in a pair for the Colorado Trail.


Will do. I had a pair of Freeriders start to fall apart on me after 5 rides last summer:

vikapproved | Five Ten Freerider VXi Review

But I have had amazing service from my 5.10 Impact Low shoes so I'm going to chalk that up to a mistake during fabrication.


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## dream4est (May 21, 2003)

Well my Freerider Elements worked well in the azt750 but they failed in the Grand Canyon after about 6 miles. By fail I mean they went soft and all ground punishment was transferred to the feet.

For the first 650 miles they were awesome. Great pedaling efficiency and comfy hikeabike even on nasty stuff like Oracle Ridge and Highline Trail.
I would use them again in CTR or AZT750 but I wouldnt try a canyon hike in them again.
They seem to have about a 500-600 mile life for hard bikepacking use IMO.


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## Aushiker (Sep 27, 2007)

I know this is a serious bring back from the dead bump but I am interested in the current thinking/suggestions for flat pedals and shoes for bikepacking. Having just read a post over at Bikepacking.com and working towards a minimal load hence no camp/town shoes to be carried I am seriously considering moving from clipless to flat for bikepacking.

If you are using flat pedals, I would value your thoughts and suggestions on pedals and shoes. Also what do you think of the suggestions in the blog post linked to above?

Thanks
Andrew


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^I use 5.10 Freeriders and Wellgo MG-1s. If I loosen the laces all the way they make comfy camp slippers, another bonus is good grip on rock. The pedals in the blog post are good, although for touring/packing I don't like the real aggressive pin setups.


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## Aushiker (Sep 27, 2007)

bsieb said:


> ^I use 5.10 Freeriders and Wellgo MG-1s. If I loosen the laces all the way they make comfy camp slippers, another bonus is good grip on rock. The pedals in the blog post are good, although for touring/packing I don't like the real aggressive pin setups.


Thank you for your comment and suggestion. If I may ask a dumb question from the perspective of no flat pedal experience, what is the role/effect of pin setups, such as the more aggressive ones found on the pedals in the blog post?

I have taken a read of this blog post at BetterRide.net where the writer states:



> Short pedal pins allow for an easier removal of the foot from the pedal and they don't mess up your shins quite as bad WHEN you rake them across your legs. Often BMX riders will ride short pins and also fewer pins because they need to remove their feet from the pedals, slide them around and re-adjust, or just plain get off of the bike in a hurry (eject). Ever see a hard-core BMXer's shins? Not pretty &#8230;
> 
> Nice long pedal pins keep your feet in place. With long pins and a good shoe (discussed below) your foot is pretty much locked in. There's no siding around or re-adjusting. Your foot is planted on the pedal and it won't move unless you get all of your weight up and off of the pedal. Yes, they do a number on any type of soft fleshy tissue that they come in contact with, but the chances of "slipping" a pedal with a proper shoe and a proper pedal with long pins is drastically limited. Kinda like you stand a better chance of cutting yourself if you use a dull knife rather then a sharp one (?).


Is this a fair summary on the subject of pins?

Thanks


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Yes. I don't normally ride very aggressively when bikepacking, so I'm not real concerned about losing the pedals. I have only about an 1/8" of the pins showing on my MG-1s, plenty for good grip but easier to change foot position, and not as sharky-bitey when pushing the bike. I like clipless pedals too, but the shoes aren't very suitable for some aspects of bikepacking, like hiking,scrambling on rock, or lounging in camp.


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## NickSmolinske (Mar 8, 2008)

I did a ride today where my front wheel slipped on a tight turn in loose dirt, and I was able to immediately bail off the bike and roll out of it. Pretty glad to be running flats on that one.

In any case, I wanted to mention that the La Sportiva Boulder X approach shoes also have good, grippy rubber, so that's another option. I found that the five ten shoes just don't fit my feet at all, so it's nice to have an alternative. I've also backpacked about 200 miles in the Grand Canyon on a pair of Boulder X's (off-trail, no less), so they might hold up better than the Elements from the sound of it.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Aushiker said:


> Thank you for your comment and suggestion. If I may ask a dumb question from the perspective of no flat pedal experience, what is the role/effect of pin setups, such as the more aggressive ones found on the pedals in the blog post?
> 
> I have taken a read of this blog post at BetterRide.net where the writer states:
> 
> ...


I think that a fair summary of using flats for fairly intense riding. I think for most bikepacking you would be hard pressed to be dealing with that level of riding intensity for much of the riding. I would guess that the Colorado Trail would qualify. I've got full on aggressive pins on my flats, Canfield Brothers Ultimate Crampons, and I really think they are the way to go for intense riding. For most bikepacking though I think you could run way less aggressive pins and be fine. I would just use my pedals for trips since that is what I have. But actually if there was going to be lots of hike-a-bike I might switch to a less aggressive pedal as I have cut myself the most with my pedals when I was off the bike pushing it around.

I have several bikes with clipless pedals and I have a pair of Shimano MTB touring shoes that I wouldn't hesitate to use for bikepacking with those bikes. They're comfortable to just wear around and their only weakness is if you are walking on rounded rocks the cleats hit the rocks.


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## Aushiker (Sep 27, 2007)

bsieb said:


> ^Yes. I don't normally ride very aggressively when bikepacking, so I'm not real concerned about losing the pedals. I have only about an 1/8" of the pins showing on my MG-1s, plenty for good grip but easier to change foot position, and not as sharky-bitey when pushing the bike. I like clipless pedals too, but the shoes aren't very suitable for some aspects of bikepacking, like hiking,scrambling on rock, or lounging in camp.


Thanks. Much appreciated.


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