# Why is a Loop Important?



## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I have read trail reviews that say that the only bad part of this trail is that you cannot ride it in a loop.

I started in the early winter hiking around the upper side of Nassahegan State Forest. Although a loop, some of it is unwalkable, let alone rideable. I found a loop going south of George Washington Tpke(abandoned road)that goes to Stone road, up to the Mainline Trail and back to an abandoned road that leads back to the GWT. This week, I found I can connect that to a trail that avoids the Devils Kitchen(nice gorge, but you are not going to ride through it) which means I can connect Miller Rd and Cornwall Rd(abandoned)and I have a loop to ride around almost all of the lower portion of the forest.

I want to know why I have been hiking and racking my brain for six months to do this. What is so terrible about turning around and going back????


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I never gave it much thought. 

My main ride is more like a lollipop. Down the stem for a mile, off to any number of loops, back to the stem and the parking lot. Other places are more traditional loops while my favorite road ride is about 12.5 miles straight south and 12.5 miles north for an easy 25 mile ride and a daily lesson in head and tail winds.


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## Knucklehead (May 18, 2004)

I prefer being able to ride a loop rather than an out-and-back. But I'll ride either. I prefer loops because it continues the variety of the ride and views. But an out-and-back can be just as diverse when ridden in the opposite direction.


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Climbing and descending any given section of trail are completely different experiences. I have no problems with out-and-back rides. All I really care about is the quality of the trail, given what I'm after on any given day.


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## Tricker Joe (Dec 17, 2010)

Because sad people always need something to ***** about. Most of our local loop trails can be ridden in both direction. We often do clockwise & counter clockwise laps aka making them out and back rides.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

I know people who wont hit the same section of trail during a ride no matter what direction they go. While I understand wanting the variety, if I am in the mood, I will sometimes hit the same section multiple times.


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## Coldfriction (Oct 31, 2009)

A one-directional loop can have features that are difficult or impossible to ride up on the return side. They can allow a steeper or shallower climb depending on what you want and be ridden by different fitness levels also. They can keep the entire ride an adventure instead of just the ride out. I prefer loops, and I look for them in my riding, but some of the better trails I've ridden are out and backs.


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## RIVER29 (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't think a loop is very important. However, I do get the sense that I have rode further when the scenery keeps changing vs the same scenery from a different angle. So, maybe there is some slight subconscious perception that you have accomplished more when you do a loop.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I usually prefer loops, because I like to maximize scenery. Some trails I ride are directional and can ONLY be ridden as a loop in one direction. That said, I'm not opposed at all to doing something as an out-and-back. There are also a number of those available to me. Riding a given piece of trail both directions IS like riding a totally different trail, so it doesn't bother me to duplicate stuff.

On some of the more complicated networks of trails, I will repeat sections that I really enjoy.


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## jk13 (May 21, 2012)

Because racetrack.

Kidding, I ride both loop and out-n-back but think it's a mental thing to 'complete' a trail or circuit. Makes no difference to me really, but I get it.

Also it may or may not keep you closer (in a straight line) to the truck/trailhead/base in case of catastrophic failure. The hike out may take less time if you can short cut through some of the middle.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I like loops. You get the same mileage from 1/2 the walk out distance. You can have one-way traffic on a loop.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

This is a non-issue IMO. Some people need things to complain about. I advise not riding with people like that. Ride what you enjoy more, think about what others complain about less.


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## Guest (May 1, 2015)

I suppose if you see out the back of your head and get bored easily, than you probably should stick to loops. Me, I ride the crap out of the same couple trails all year long and still manage to find something that distracts me enough to keep things dangerous. Just one opinion, but I've had it for a while so I'm not even looping in my thought process.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Out and backs tend to have more head-on collision risk than loops.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I will ride anything, but I prefer loops if I want to focus more on riding faster or encountering more technical stuff. On a ride like that, I don't ALSO want to worry about head-on crashes while looking out for oncoming traffic...I want my eyes on the trail.

My OCD tends to lead me to paths that are more organized...I think that is where I get my sense of accomplishment. I am not afraid to blaze a new trail of my own, but when I go to do it again, it has to be in sort of the same manner. If I ride a trail counter-clockwise the first time, I will ride it that way every time. The bike goes on the car rack the same direction...yada-yada...OCD things

After reading this thread, it made me do some reflecting, and in all of the years I have been riding, I only notice the scenery at arrival points or stops. Scenery while I am riding is usually not noticed...I mean, I know I am in a woods, or on a road, but i don't remember details....


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I like both. they each have positives:
loop- potentially less traffic, greater 'sense' of accomplishment
OaB- I can scout and preview lines for when I come back the other way, even if I'm familiar with the trail, looking for new washouts, rocks, alt-lines etc. I can also just turn around whenever I feel like it.

I typically ride loops because I string trails together seeking out specific features and sections I enjoy riding, or challenge me, although I frequently ride/push up a trail just so I can ride back down it.


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## MCHB (Jun 23, 2014)

Where I generally ride, we have the two main trails with several other trails branching off, so there are multiple options on which way to go. Most of the branches almost always get you back to the trail head eventually. The main trail is more of a gradual grade, where the branches tend to have steeper sections. I certainly have no problem with going up and then down the same trail, but loops are nice for the change of scenery!


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

my local trails tend to be out and back (up & down really)... I do find the trails I ride when out of town more interesting i.e. getting back to where you started in a totally different manner. 

-------------------------------------
Opinions are like A-holes... everybody 
has one & they're usually full of...??


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

I like to ride my mtn bike....on trails.  :thumbsup:


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## jim c (Dec 5, 2014)

When hiking it is a real negative (for me) to do out-n-back. The trails I ride are all directional and I wouldn't want to lose that. It is so great not having traffic coming at you. If I'm good enough I may have to deal with slower riders or riders down, but no head-on. My last OTB was avoiding a guy who went down in a place where the trail was blind. I came around a tree, saw the bike and pulled brakes, as the rear started to lift I thought about letting off and hitting his bike, and then fall. I figured it would be better to flip sooner and kept the pressure on till I was on my ass/back. No damage so I figure I made the correct choice. It happens.


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## Psycho1 (Aug 26, 2014)

I ride whatever I have the opportunity to ride.. My 2 main rides are one of each. I do notice when I ride new places if I get to ride up first I do alot better on the down. I've seen what to expect and im not so unaware of What to expect. So i guess that would be an out and back, or an up and down.. 😊


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

I loop it when I can (don't know why) and out and back if have to. Most times I'm lost and may out/back parts unintentionally |o|


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

I have only witnessed an aversion to out and backs one time outside of the internet. This person said they prefer loops because they like to feel "like they went somewhere." I didn't see the reasoning but I didn't mind accommodating the request.

I like rides that combine loops and out and backs, for example a loop with a out and back summit trail attached, or a figure 8 or triple figure 8. There are lots of options where I live (Redding) so piecing together an interesting ride is always fun, sometimes and out and back fits the bill.


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

Funny. Never really thought about it. I suppose I was prejudiced FOR loops cause of a track like situation...I did a lap, or laps. Out and backs reminded me of those crappy exercises we did in football practice in high school...run out, touch the line, run back, run out touch the next line, run back, and so on.

Like has been said, riding the same trail the opposite direction, offers different challenges..which is cool. You're seeing the scenery from a different direction, so that changes too...so out and backs aren't evil.

But...

A loop also feels more "flowy". The more flow I can get in life the happier I am.

So my vote is flow over static.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

loop is important because they are a really cool band...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Loops feel a little more 'adventurous' to me in a way, I guess. 

But, my go-to ride is 3 miles of skinny flowy stuff I built with a couple buddies, mostly along water, that was made to ride equally well in either direction. Goes from my driveway to the local brewery (and their friendly sampling room). I also have great love for the out-n-back.

:thumbsup:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Loop or not as long as I'm on a good ride I'm good. All rides are different take them how they are.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Loop or not as long as I'm on a good ride I'm good. All rides are different take them how they are.


yup.

here in the bay area, the ever-changing weather makes every ride different, loop or no loop.

depending on where you are, it can be 72 and sunny in one location but 62 and foggy as all get out two miles further down the trail sometimes.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

We don't have much elevation in our riding areas (compared with other regions) but we do have a vast network of diverse trails. Combine escarpment rock, sand, clay with changing weather and year round riding....


> makes every ride different, loop or no loop.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Nothing wrong with fire road climbs, but id rather be on singletrack. Thats just the way some trails go.

Same with loops. Nothing wrong with out and back, but wouldnt you rather experience more trail than turn around and do the same one backwards?


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

I don't mind a nice out 'n back. You get to climb the painful parts twice and see the awesome views twice too.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

mtnbikej said:


> I like to ride my mtn bike....on trails.  :thumbsup:


This and what others have said about not caring sum it up for me. I've been on out and back rides and hikes where I could've sworn I took a wrong turn because the way back looks completely different than the way up.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

I enjoy loops. If I'm feeling bad, I can bail out early. If I'm feeling good, I can make any size loop that I want to ride. I would just need to connect more trails. The hiking trails I ride are only one direction so I need to make a loop or push a bike to the top and there's no fun in that. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Zomby Woof (MCM700) (May 23, 2004)

It gets me back to the trail head where I parked my car.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

I think there's an instinctual element to it too. Many animals follow a loop in their routine, for example wild canines will follow a daily loop, part migratory instinct, part territorial protection. Also if you look at wild wolf and Mt lion tracking they sometimes make long migratory moves, not backtracking over covered ground very much. We're probably not much different.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

I think there is an aesthetic to a loop - starting and finishing at the same place without having to backtrack. If I have a choice between a ride of equal trail experience I'll take a loop over an out and back. That said, it's not that big of a thing one way or another to me - I just love being out on my bike.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Procter said:


> I think there's an instinctual element to it too. Many animals follow a loop in their routine, for example wild canines will follow a daily loop, part migratory instinct, part territorial protection. Also if you look at wild wolf and Mt lion tracking they sometimes make long migratory moves, not backtracking over covered ground very much. We're probably not much different.


Humans do it too. People that get lost on foot, at night, will often times go in clockwise circles.

Has pretty interesting implications and applications in the (C)SAR field.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Procter said:


> I think there's an instinctual element to it too. Many animals follow a loop in their routine, for example wild canines will follow a daily loop, part migratory instinct, part territorial protection. Also if you look at wild wolf and Mt lion tracking they sometimes make long migratory moves, not backtracking over covered ground very much. We're probably not much different.


Humans do it, too. I've observed it during CSAR training. The human body, without directional cues (sun, stars, moon, cloud movement, tree moss, less veg on southern facing valley slopes, etc) will naturally move in clockwise circles.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Interesting stuff about the animals and how we tend to move in circular loops instinctualy. I think this is driven by a higher force! I have read that anything that is naturally occurring (not man-made) happens in circles/cycles/or circular fashion. Not trying to get religious or whatever, but it is fascinating to me. 

I prefer loops. I find that I will always ride them counter-clockwise though if I have the choice. I wonder if this goes back to growing up ice-skating, where we always started out going counter-clockwise. I learned to do my crossovers on skates to my left first both forwards and backwards...and am still more comfortable on that side...


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I wonder if this goes back to growing up ice-skating, where we always started out going counter-clockwise. I learned to do my crossovers on skates to my left first both forwards and backwards...and am still more comfortable on that side...


I don't skate but this might be because most people are right footed


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Procter said:


> I don't skate but this might be because most people are right footed


yeah, it might. I was thinking about that after I wrote this. I have always wondered if it is different in other parts of the country and in Canada...but that is for another thread. Don't want to get too far off topic


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## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

I think Ranger nailed it. What is the only way to get bak home without backtracking?


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## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

Oops, I see Proctor was actually the progenitor of this theory


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

The trail experience/quality is more important to me than whether or not it's a loop, but generally I prefer loops........ except when the trail is made into a loop by connecting a bunch of asinine backroads and pavement just for the sake of making the ride a loop. If the trail can be ridden in both directions I'd much rather do an out and back on that type of ride.

Example: Space Mountain/Rosewood in SoCal. Many people were recommending looping back to the trailhead on some surface streets and dirt roads when I researched it but it's only like 5 or 6 miles in one direction and climbs well in both directions so we did it out and back. Lovely ride.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Does getting looped before a loop count?


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## l'oiseau (May 5, 2015)

I think the loop is mostly mental... it's the flow of having a continuum rather than having a turn around point. I notice it with anything I do: ride, hike, paddle, ski.

I disagree with it being the same trail out and then back. If you think that way then you don't do much out and back, because it's NEVER the same. If anything you should be able to make some mental notes about certain things on the way out and ride harder the way back... it still won't be the same, but you'll have some idea what to expect. Scenery looks different too. If you think loops give you better scenic options then you need to look around more. Again, I think it's mostly just a mental think about have a turn back point - it seems even harder if there is not a climax i.e. a summit, a pond, whatever... if you just ride out along a road, reach some random point and turn back, it seems strange somehow. Loops trick your brain by having no destination.

I can say there are certainly times when I don't like loops: when time is crucial - I can gage a turn back time and thus total time easier with out and back, when I'm tired - unknown loops can seem too long, or when I'm breaking a trail in snow - at least on the way back you get your own track.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

I don't know why it is important, but to me it is. It is not like an out-and-back is a deal breaker, I just prefer a loop.

I have not really figured out why, but I think it is because I cover more ground and see more trail. Just feels "bigger".


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## deadgoat (Jan 19, 2004)

misterbill said:


> I have read trail reviews that say that the only bad part of this trail is that you cannot ride it in a loop.
> 
> I started in the early winter hiking around the upper side of Nassahegan State Forest. Although a loop, some of it is unwalkable, let alone rideable. I found a loop going south of George Washington Tpke(abandoned road)that goes to Stone road, up to the Mainline Trail and back to an abandoned road that leads back to the GWT. This week, I found I can connect that to a trail that avoids the Devils Kitchen(nice gorge, but you are not going to ride through it) which means I can connect Miller Rd and Cornwall Rd(abandoned)and I have a loop to ride around almost all of the lower portion of the forest.
> 
> ...


It's not


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

I prefer loops, I guess because the scenery and terrain varies. I'm one to enjoy my surroundings almost as much as I like riding the bike though so this might have something to do with this. Although most of my rides are loops many are out and backs, each direction giving different challenges. I've never worried or complained about it, I just prefer loops.


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

When you ride a loop you own everything inside, so why own a skinny little stick or a lollipop when you could own more?

Like this....


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

bamwa said:


> When you ride a loop you own everything inside, so why own a skinny little stick or a lollipop when you could own more?


What the hell are you talking about?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Either - who cares as long as you are riding!


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

kragu said:


> What the hell are you talking about?


You have to watch the video. You get more from ATT. You didn't get that????



bamwa said:


> When you ride a loop you own everything inside, so why own a skinny little stick or a lollipop when you could own more?
> 
> Like this....


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

misterbill said:


> You have to watch the video. You get more from ATT. You didn't get that????


No, I get it. I just don't understand how you "own" everything inside the loop...


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## acfsportsfan (Aug 13, 2004)

Whenever I ride new trails and I'm in the middle of some single-trak climb, I always think to myself "I wonder what coming down this would be like?"


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

kragu said:


> No, I get it. I just don't understand how you "own" everything inside the loop...


Free your mind and your "own" will follow. It's kind of like the faster we go the rounder we get. So start owning more today. Don't fight it, you WILL like it. No one wants a little skinny stick but huge fat circles are in demand everywhere you look. Sometimes I play with a stick but you can never own that.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

misterbill said:


> You have to watch the video. You get more from ATT. You didn't get that????


I was joking. I honestly have no idea what he is talking about.


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)




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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

A loop is important because... mtbATXmitch won't be there! 
(He is busy making lame street videos and going mach45 on his rim job GT with slicks.)


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing mtbATXmitch on any out and backs either.


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## RajunCajun44 (Aug 12, 2012)

Because humans are herd animals.... Don't be a goat, it's ok to ride wide trails and do an out an back...


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

This represents about 6 months of hiking/biking and exploring. I think that it would be about a 12 mile loop(the perimeter)if I did it all at once. I broke it up into a few five or six mile trips. There is another three miles above Punch Brook Rd(north of George Washington), but it is too steep for me-real scenic though, definitely worth hiking or hike a bike through.


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## Chalkpaw (Dec 28, 2007)

There is a long human history associated with a journey being a "loop". Imagine being without a nice constructed bicycle trail for recreation? You want a journey with no destination or reason to "hurry" back to the family/tribe? A loop does that, it creates more of an experience of discovery rather than an out and back which early people associated with chores. Hauling water from the river. Traveling to a hunting area. Going to another village. There was safety in that function of an out and back. Going on a big round about journey sometimes made it into storytelling and then into myth.


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

Fify



chalkpaw said:


> there is a long human history associated with people being "loopy".


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

Bam! This link reminded me of this thread. Check it, brah. Reasons.
http://forums.mtbr.com/colorado-front-range/win-bikes-heil-2-a-1010712.html


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Chalkpaw said:


> There is a long human history associated with a journey being a "loop". Imagine being without a nice constructed bicycle trail for recreation? You want a journey with no destination or reason to "hurry" back to the family/tribe? A loop does that, it creates more of an experience of discovery rather than an out and back which early people associated with chores. Hauling water from the river. Traveling to a hunting area. Going to another village. There was safety in that function of an out and back. Going on a big round about journey sometimes made it into storytelling and then into myth.


I like it.

Also, a loop is like a wheel, you know, like a bike wheel - so it's just got to be better.

A lollipop is a good alternative. We've got a few of those.

Out and backs are for trail skiing. Break trail, glide it back.


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

Out-n-back to a loop or two is how I usually plan my longer rides. There's a short loop close to me that I do in either direction, occasionally both, if I do it a second time and reverse it. 
Can't say I have a preference, just love to ride. Nothing's flat or smooth for very long here, so I can do the same trails over and over without them feeling old. Taking different lines, trying to get faster, to make short technical climbs multiple ways, gradually pushing and expanding my cornering limits on familiar curves...I turn practically any trail into a constant challenge of some kind or another, and never get bored. 
Converting my bike to SS made a big difference in that regard, too. Really shows up physical shortcomings, especially on the climbs, and encourages improving skills to maintain momentum everywhere. I originally thought of SS as a temporary thing, a training tool, but have less and less desire to ride any other way.


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## burtronix (Jun 5, 2006)

I like seeing wildlife, & the probability is much lower on the return leg of an out & back.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Because you can ride it the other way and it seems different. An out-n-back is always the same.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

I strictly ride in isosceles triangles. I have to scurry over a lot of open terrain to accomplish this, but it's necessary to prevent the GPS satellites from tracking me, it creates a resonant interference with their triangulation attempts.


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

Procter said:


> I strictly ride in isosceles triangles. I have to scurry over a lot of open terrain to accomplish this, but it's necessary to prevent the GPS satellites from tracking me, it creates a resonant interference with their triangulation attempts.


That's almost verbatim to what I was telling the gf the other day.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

bamwa said:


> That's almost verbatim to what I was telling the gf the other day.


It's them. It's called Mind Seeding. It's the chemtrails.


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## ...Mark... (Feb 17, 2016)

Loops are important so people can yell at you for going the wrong way on the wrong day.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

To see more stuff... I'd rather do a 20 mile loop and see 20 miles of different terrain/features/etc than go out and back on a 10 mile stretch. I guess this matters more with road biking because trails ridden backwards can provide a much different experience. Still would prefer a loop.


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

I now enjoy loops off of loops. All the time. It's for real, man.


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## jimbowho (Dec 16, 2009)

All my rides are out and back. I just called them Loops, problem solved.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I have been racking my brain all morning about how to plan a loop for today. Think the bike path is going to be deep slush. I am probably going to suffer the shame of riding on the sidewalk for about a mile-I do not want to ride on a busy highway with no breakdown lane.  It is 30° right now, supposed to warm up to 60°. Want to start in the cold and enjoy the warm up!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Shame Bill, shame.

Just kidding, I ride on the sidewalk where I feel it is the safest and least obtrusive option, don't worry about it.

Have a good ride!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I get loopy when I ride loops. 

Friends don't let friends ride loops.


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## RavinJM (May 18, 2015)

My main riding partner/partner in crime ONLY wants to ride loop trails. Which is fine most of the time.
When I ride with my 9 year old they tend to be short out and back, when we get off the beaten path, otherwise its bike paths and pump track.

Doesn't matter to me as long as I am on the bike.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

With no preparation of foreknowledge or technology, an out and back can be a guide to unknown trail networks.

Out and back is basic.

Cherry stem and a loop is nice.

Loops are better.

Point to point is superior.

Shuttling up and riding down is something else.

None of it is pointless.

Add a stop to dine, make love, swim, visit a museum, do trail work, visit a pub, observe wildlife, write poetry, make music, interpret natural history, philosophize, or what have you, will dignify any ride.



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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Isn't every ride technically a loop and/or out and back? 

I have never had a preference for either, except that on loops, I like the traffic to all be going one way....if you look at my ride maps, the way I ride is pretty "schizophrenic". Mostly b/c I like to bushwack/trailblaze, so what starts as a loop can sometimes become a loop with many different off shoots. Or an out and back that looks like a tree...I don't like to leave any trail possibility unexplored.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Isn't every ride technically a loop and/or out and back?


There's point-to-point, which is most adventurous.

I do like this poster's explanation:



Chalkpaw said:


> There is a long human history associated with a journey being a "loop". Imagine being without a nice constructed bicycle trail for recreation? You want a journey with no destination or reason to "hurry" back to the family/tribe? A loop does that, it creates more of an experience of discovery rather than an out and back which early people associated with chores. Hauling water from the river. Traveling to a hunting area. Going to another village. There was safety in that function of an out and back. Going on a big round about journey sometimes made it into storytelling and then into myth.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

The afterwork local trails are loop and out and backs, but when I'm out of town, I like long point to points.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I don't know why I am so obsessed with a loop. I tried to get from a town park with gravel roads and single track back to the bike path to avoid about three miles(mostly paved) of backtracking. There is a town trail that looked like it was heading in the right direction, by the time I was at a point of no return I started hitting no trespassing signs. The trails were also zig zagging in the wrong direction. Just before I got to the bike trail I went into a 'members only' trail network and of course ran across some guy jogging with his daughter looking down his nose at me because I didn't belong in there. Pretty funny, I ran into a bunch of people that could not speak English in the middle of nowhere on the single track, didn't bother me at all, smiled and tried to talk to them(they were carrying Corona-good conversation starter)but the rich guy and his daughter were very upsetting to me. Plus I trashed my GPS and had to buy a new one. I rode on the MUT yesterday and saw there is single track for about three miles along side of it. I called myself some choice names because that made a really nice eleven mile loop-I kind of forgot about that area. Never going back in there again. What a miserable trip.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Jack Burns said:


> Point to point is superior.


Doesn't point to point involve either a shuttle or bikepacking/touring?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

J.B. Weld said:


> Doesn't point to point involve either a shuttle or bikepacking/touring?


Ones logic would think so.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

Good point on point to point.

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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> Doesn't point to point involve either a shuttle or bikepacking/touring?


I suppose so, but sometimes it's worth it.

My favorite point to point ride is The Whole Enchilada, covering multiple geographical and geological zones. I've heard that some people ride it from town (making it a loop) but I'm not up to that big of a ride.

Another one, much shorter, is the ride down Teton Pass near Jackson, WY. It's steep, raucous fun. I'd rather not pedal up the steep and busy highway on a long travel bike to get to the start so shuttling is cool.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

On point on point to point.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)




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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

This isnt nazi germany! Everyone knows a loop is the only way to ride a bicycle. Unless you're a roadie. So loops for everyone except roadies and nazis.


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## RideTheSpiral (May 9, 2016)

Procter said:


> It's them. It's called Mind Seeding. It's the chemtrails.


#wokeAF #FlatEarth #DinosaursArentReal


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

To answer the OP:

A loop is for getting you back to where you started. Otherwise, you're lost.

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## motomuppet (Sep 27, 2011)

Out and back rides suck unless they are awesome, then I love them, but generally loops rock. Loops for the win. Unless out and backs kick ass then it's a draw. but, yeah...loops.


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## motomuppet (Sep 27, 2011)

Figure 8's can be cool too though....


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

motomuppet said:


> Out and back rides suck unless they are awesome, then I love them, but generally loops rock. Loops for the win. Unless out and backs kick ass then it's a draw. but, yeah...loops.


What if out is awesome, but back sucks?! Or vise versa!?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jack Burns said:


> Good point on point to point.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk





chazpat said:


> On point on point to point.


A triangle of sorts. The hairpin left corners can be a bich though.


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## zooey (Oct 31, 2016)

It all sucks when you run into the unexpected and aren't prepared for it.

Maybe a loop might be nice to do an out-n-back on, if you want to say on the shady side, according to what time of day or what season it is. Loop's much more versatile with planning and freedom. Out-n-back is "linear", like a rigid story in a video game. Has less "replayability", in a sense.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I can be lazy and if I am on an out-and-back I might be tempted to turn around and head back to the beginning at any random time. However, a loop typically requires more commitment and pushes me to complete a longer ride. Also, my short attention span requires different scenery than an out-and-back provides.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

Many times actual GPS tracks of ride-and-decide rides I've done end up being loops that cross over on themselves due to the trail network constraints or practicalities, resulting in certain sections.

These kind of tracks aren't exactly pure loop rides. Sometimes they double back on themselves and sometimes repeat sections.

Spontaneous rides are great. But I prefer making up a loop route before the ride start.

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