# Look Fournales Linkage Fork Now On Bike!



## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Well for those of you who have been following this here you go. It's been a LONG hard road BUT it has all been worth it now that the year long saga has finally come to a close. This has been my longest and biggest project to date. I couldn't have done it without Nino and DirtBoy's support.  I think you will enjoy the pics. I have to say I think it looks fantastic on my frankenbike- goes with the theme, kinda. Lateral rigidity feels like a very firm rigid fork. The compression is not Fox smooth but this is a race bike. I just need to take the edge off the bumps. I still have a few niggling bits to adjust but it's basically done.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

For god's sake man, we need numbers !


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

numbers!!! Where is the scale? 

How much material did you have to machine off the head tube to make it fit?


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

As far as numbers go, 7mm was machined off of the top of the head tube to get it down to the 137mm with headset window for this small sized Fournales. This was easily done as there was lots to work with and all came off the top of the headtube in the less stressed area. The low stack height of the new Tune Bobo headset helped. The Extralite Freehead would have been better at 2mm shorter but I needed a HS asap and this was available. This bike has gotten heavier. I had it at 16ish lbs last summer with a different drivetrain. The 2x9 setup I have now has cost me some weight but for race duty on most of the courses here this is the far superior setup, IMO. The fork is basically the same weight as my SID Race that it has replaced. Switching over to the Thumbies from SRAM GS saved me some decent weight but I'm still heavier at 17lbs now with these tires. The Crows are just too wimpy at this time of the season here to get adequate grip. Here is pic from last summer.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Dear Lord.....:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:
:ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa::ciappa:

:devil:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*well...*

the bike is what it is, so is the fork.
BUT:
i really like the crunched look of the Nokons. i don't have the words to describe how they look:madman:  
and the way you have set up your Extralite brakes is also unique....
oh - i almost forgot your saddle position on the alien post..
or the positioning of your brakelevers facing straight down...

sorry - but this just matches the rest of the bike. it's just a cumulation of DON'T - Do - ITs.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Right! Everything looks so badly adjusted... You could have more power if you tuned your brakes right...


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I think you should paint your crank arms yellow to match the little bit of yellow in the LOOK sticker. That way every single color has a matching pair.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

nino said:


> the bike is what it is, so is the fork.
> BUT:
> i really like the crunched look of the Nokons. i don't have the words to describe how they look:madman:
> and the way you have set up your Extralite brakes is also unique....
> ...


Good lord. Thanks for the kind words. As I stated earlier (for the reading impaired) I still need to make final adjustments so what you see here is not the final product. I'm suprised to see you offering up a post these days that isn't related to selling product. BTW, how's that KCNC problem working out for you?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*weird setup...*



Axis II said:


> Good lord. Thanks for the kind words. As I stated earlier (for the reading impaired) I still need to make final adjustments so what you see here is not the final product. I'm suprised to see you offering up a post these days that isn't related to selling product. BTW, how's that KCNC problem working out for you?


well - even your "old" setup looks exactly the same:

brakelevers facing down
Nokons look like cables of a 100 year old bike

but why didn't you get the hubs in red back then? with red hubs it would be "nicer". like it is i really have the impression you have a problem with seeing coulours, right

by the way - how about the forks lenght? what's the lenght of the old SID and what's that of the Fournales? did you ever compare those numbers? and what about the wheelbase?


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## Tag1 (Mar 17, 2006)

Ha, I love this bike! Unique and interesting...oh wait - some of the colors don't match perfectly and your brakes aren't adjusted to my exacting standards. Nevermind how it rides or feels, I take it all back.  

I dig it Axis, be sure to comment more on the fork after you put some time in on it.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I like the bike too. I kinda like the rasta random colors. Does the steering/handling of the bike change because the fork is further out?


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Axis II said:


> Good lord. Thanks for the kind words. As I stated earlier (for the reading impaired) I still need to make final adjustments so what you see here is not the final product. I'm suprised to see you offering up a post these days that isn't related to selling product. BTW, how's that KCNC problem working out for you?


Didn't you read the announcement that's stickied at the top of every forum. Nino (and others) CAN"T make those kinda posts anymore. So he's lost his usual reason to post on mtbr.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Tag1 said:


> Ha, I love this bike! Unique and interesting...oh wait - some of the colors don't match perfectly and your brakes aren't adjusted to my exacting standards. Nevermind how it rides or feels, I take it all back.
> 
> I dig it Axis, be sure to comment more on the fork after you put some time in on it.


Well, I just got back from my first ride on VERY tight and twisty single track. The rake doesn't feel any different over the SID that I just took off. It just looks steep due to the more forward position of the fork legs up top, I think. This fork is amazing. I never knew just how much control I was giving up on the front end with the SID until I got on this fork. It tracks amazingly well in the tight technical stuff and the high speed control makes it feel like a totally different (and superior) bike. At first I was a little worried about the compression stroke but this fork has a very sophisticated compression stroke curve. Even at high pressure it is very active on small bump sensitivity but then quickly ramps up compression after about 6-9mm and so it's nice and stiff. I can pump it up to feel much more stiff` then I ever could with the SID. Lateral rigidity feels just like a rigid fork and is noticeably better then my new FOX F80X even. I guess all the wait and work has been worth it.

Nino: You are wrong yet again. As I explained to you last year (with pictures, do a search) the crown to axel length is actually shorter on this fork then the Sid. Brake lever setup is specific to personal preferences- I have large hands and prefer the proper setup of my hand in line with my arm when on the bars. This brake lever position removes stress imposed on your wrist when the levers are mounted higher. This is basic stuff. The Nokon housing is a little twisted- get over it. It's a small asthetic issue and has NO impact on function.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*weird...*



Axis II said:


> Well, I just got back from my first ride on VERY tight and twisty single track. The rake doesn't feel any different over the SID that I just took off. It just looks steep due to the more forward position of the fork legs up top, I think. This fork is amazing. I never knew just how much control I was giving up on the front end with the SID until I got on this fork. It tracks amazingly well in the tight technical stuff and the high speed control makes it feel like a totally different (and superior) bike. At first I was a little worried about the compression stroke but this fork has a very sophisticated compression stroke curve. Even at high pressure it is very active on small bump sensitivity but then quickly ramps up compression after about 6-9mm and so it's nice and stiff. I can pump it up to feel much more stiff` then I ever could with the SID. Lateral rigidity feels just like a rigid fork and is noticeably better then my new FOX F80X even. I guess all the wait and work has been worth it.
> 
> Nino: You are wrong yet again. As I explained to you last year (with pictures, do a search) the crown to axel length is actually shorter on this fork then the Sid. Brake lever setup is specific to personal preferences- I have large hands and prefer the proper setup of my hand in line with my arm when on the bars. This brake lever position removes stress imposed on your wrist when the levers are mounted higher. This is basic stuff. The Nokon housing is a little twisted- get over it. It's a small asthetic issue and has NO impact on function.


well - i don't know how you ride your bike but i can tell from the other side of the ocean that this is NOT what brakelevers should be positioned like. you either have an awkward position on your bike or simply no idea of what you are talking about (removing stress on wrists with levers tilted straight down???)

Nokon: what was the reason for Nokons again? optics i guess, right? it can't be the weight since Nokons are heavier than 0815 shimano on the shiftcables. and don't tell me they are any smoother the way they look! so many kinks and radius in a cable make for added friction...no, this isn't just an asthetic issue, this is simply a bad and ugly cable-system

i still like that bike though - honestly. it is unique. and it is really a compilation of too many weird things.


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## Ardent (Dec 18, 2006)

I was curious about this thread, so I just went and rotated the brake levers down on one of my bikes. Good god. Either you're built completely differently to me or have really odd hands, but that's barely rideable for me. The brake lever causes horrible strains on my hands. I guess if it fits you...


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Your brake ARMS are too much open... They aren't paralel when you brake are they...


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## paco87 (Apr 2, 2007)

Nobody asked me for my opinion but nobody told me not to give it either so here it goes. I guess this is like the endless debate of which is the best wine or cigar. No matter what other people tell you, it all boils down to personal preference. The one you prefer is no better than the one I prefer.

Although interesting, I, like most of you, find Axis' bike set up kind of odd. However, if that's what works for him and that's what he likes, then that's the best set up. So let him be. I bet that if some of you take a look at my bike, you will find something odd like me using tubes with Schraeder valves. I know. It's so passe. But it works for me. I got so tired of breaking in half my presta valves that I had to switch. I also use bar ends. Time Atac pedals instead of Eggbeaters. And 24 speed drivetrains instead of 27. And the magic part is that I like those much better than what everybody else is using.

Just my 2 cents...


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## Ardent (Dec 18, 2006)

It's a beautiful bike, that's for sure.

Could we please get a picture of you seated on the bike with your hands on the levers? I'm kinda curious how you can make it work.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Ardent said:


> It's a beautiful bike, that's for sure.
> 
> Could we please get a picture of you seated on the bike with your hands on the levers? I'm kinda curious how you can make it work.


Sometimes the direction these threads go in is really odd. But in looking at the pic I can see how one might wonder WTF I'm talking about. First, I brake w/one finger- my middle. It's a long finger. This long finger goes down. The end of said finger clasps the brake lever. This position of the brake allows for the back of my hand to stay in line with the slope of my arm thus removing stress from my wrist. If I had the lever higher it would require me to bend my wrist down. This is a bad thing in that wrist pain can develop and it makes for less control on the bars. This is basic cockpit setup 101. I'll try and rig a pic tomorrow maybe.

EDIT: The saddle is phocked up in this pic. It's constantly sliding back on the rails and I periodically have to slide it forward every month or so. This has been addressed so all can sleep soundly tonight.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

nino said:


> well - i don't know how you ride your bike but i can tell from the other side of the ocean that this is NOT what brakelevers should be positioned like. you either have an awkward position on your bike or simply no idea of what you are talking about (removing stress on wrists with levers tilted straight down???)
> 
> Nokon: what was the reason for Nokons again? optics i guess, right? it can't be the weight since Nokons are heavier than 0815 shimano on the shiftcables. and don't tell me they are any smoother the way they look! so many kinks and radius in a cable make for added friction...no, this isn't just an asthetic issue, this is simply a bad and ugly cable-system
> 
> *i still like that bike though - honestly. it is unique. and it is really a compilation of too many weird things.*




Well, I'm a weird guy. I will be the first to admit this. Weird guys like weird bikes, I guess. If I wasn't weird I'd just go buy an off the shelf Specialized/Trek/Scott, etc., etc. The Nokons work great for me BUT so do the I-Links. Friction with the Nokons is a non-issue... I use PowerCordz.


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## soslow (Jan 22, 2006)

Cool project. Don't mind the naysayers. I enjoy your posts Axis II.


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*Congrats on getting the fork going*

Your lever and shifter setup does look to be stup a bit odd, you must really hunker down over the front of the bike, but if it works for you thats fine!

Again, well done on getting that fork going!


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

I love it


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

I personally run my levers aimed at the tire or the rim, so Axis's aimed between rim and axle setup doesn't bother me at all. We're not all midgets like nino. And yes.... having the levers angled too high for your arms/hands does lead to stress and discomfort in the fingers. I spent an entire season racing a bike with the levers too high and my fingers would cramp up after three or four laps every time.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

I think it's sweet! Way to be Axis - hard work pays off. 

The bike looks WAY better with that fork over the sid. 

I've been using Nokons on my brakes for a couple of months and havn't had a problem. I can't imagine anything being lighter - need to get that special Powercordz liner and do my shifters too!


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

Nice job! The bike is certainly weird, but functional. I actually like the contrasting rat nest of Nokons. It somehow fits the character of the bike. Then again, I am colorblind... 

I've been tempted to grab a Fournales, as they're easier to find here in Europe. You've ALMOST got me convinced.

Does anyone have experience with a Fournales or Amp after the bearing have worn a bit? How long do the bearings last before they get sloppy? How does the fork feel with worn bearings? Is it just like a slider fork with worn bushings?


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

EuroMack said:


> Nice job! The bike is certainly weird, but functional. I actually like the contrasting rat nest of Nokons. It somehow fits the character of the bike. Then again, I am colorblind...
> 
> I've been tempted to grab a Fournales, as they're easier to find here in Europe. You've ALMOST got me convinced.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with a Fournales or Amp after the bearing have worn a bit? How long do the bearings last before they get sloppy? How does the fork feel with worn bearings? Is it just like a slider fork with worn bushings?


The word from long time users is that this fork is as reliable/durable as a Garand rifle- it just keeps going and going. The owners manual even downplays the need to service the shock. They say something like "change the oil every couple years." No servicing every 50hrs of ride time like Rockshox recommends with the SID. If slop does become an issue the bearings appear to be easily replaceable- they look to be standard skateboard wheel-type bearings? I can tear down this whole fork with a few allen wrenches and a socket wrench in minutes. It looks really complicated but it's a straightforward and user serviceable design, IMO.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Strong Ti said:


> Your lever and shifter setup does look to be stup a bit odd, you must really hunker down over the front of the bike, but if it works for you thats fine!
> 
> Again, well done on getting that fork going!


Yes, I do get very low over the front end. This is my position that has been a bit of a carry-over from my road days and I find having a stretched out and flat back position really helps with my L4&L5 herniated disc issues. The lower and flater I can get the less lower back pain for me. An upright position is a sure recipe for lower back pain in my case.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*please....*



Axis II said:


> .... It's a long finger. This long finger goes down. The end of said finger clasps the brake lever. This position of the brake allows for the back of my hand to stay in line with the slope of my arm thus removing stress from my wrist. If I had the lever higher it would require me to bend my wrist down. This is a bad thing in that wrist pain can develop and it makes for less control on the bars. This is basic cockpit setup 101. I'll try and rig a pic tomorrow maybe.


please - don't even start defending your lever positioning!

your finger might be long and pointing towards switzerland in a specific manner  .....but this is definitely NOT what your levers should be positioned. but i won't say it doesn't fit you since over the years you just accustomed to this weird position.....but you know what i want to say, don't you?

no more argueing on this one. this isn't the topic here....


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## yoginasser (Sep 14, 2006)

*Love the fork*

Congrats!The bike looks great.:band: 
I think the fist of fury stem would look perfect with your set up,but that doesn't come out till 2008.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

yoginasser said:


> Congrats!The bike looks great.:band:
> I think the fist of fury stem would look perfect with your set up,but that doesn't come out till 2008.


LOL! That might come in very handy for those off the bike sections when the guy ahead of me won't move out of my way. I think that stem could shatter a helmet in short order.:thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*cool!!*



yoginasser said:


> Congrats!The bike looks great.:band:
> I think the fist of fury stem would look perfect with your set up,but that doesn't come out till 2008.


this would really be the icing on the cake. this stem is just too cool, really:thumbsup:


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

nino said:


> please - don't even start defending your lever positioning!
> 
> your finger might be long and pointing towards switzerland in a specific manner  .....but this is definitely NOT what your levers should be positioned. but i won't say it doesn't fit you since over the years you just accustomed to this weird position.....but you know what i want to say, don't you?
> 
> no more argueing on this one. this isn't the topic here....


Agreed, BUT I stand by my lever position to the end. Ergonomics should be user-specific. One-size-fits-all aproaches to bike setup are worthless and often harmful. So, let's get back to discussing this excellent fork, no?


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## yoginasser (Sep 14, 2006)

Axis II said:


> Agreed, BUT I stand by my lever position to the end. Ergonomics should be user-specific. One-size-fits-all aproaches to bike setup are worthless and often harmful. So, let's get back to discussing this excellent fork, no?


I agree on both points.
I wanted to ask you about linkage forks since I`m sure you've done your home work on this AxisII,could you tell me the pros and cons between the look,german a and use sub forks?From what I understand,they all seem to promise the same thing.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

My friend had an AMP or still does but doesn't use it and it had this annoying design that used shims or something. He had a hard time "tuning" it to work well so I doubt it is as good a platform as this. Of course there is an amazing Fat Chance cross bike with the carbon legged Amp on the internet that is amazing. I think the travel was pretty short too.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

yoginasser said:


> I agree on both points.
> I wanted to ask you about linkage forks since I`m sure you've done your home work on this AxisII,could you tell me the pros and cons between the look,german a and use sub forks?From what I understand,they all seem to promise the same thing.


The USE and German A I have no personal experience with so I can't speak to either of those forks. I may just have to get a German A to replace my FOX F80X maybe for next season IF it pans out. Lots of hype around that fork now but I don't want to be the test pilot for so much $ if it's not a stellar fork- I'll let Slob do that.  The Fournales is a proven design. It's been around for a while and if you do a search here or on WW you will find very solid positive info from long time users. There is something of a Fournales cult, actually. We are THE BELIEVERS.:thumbsup: Add all that up plus the fact that I found it for a fire sale price on Ebay and it's a no-brainer, IMO. I have to say that initial setup is a horror show, however. If you do go this route do the search here and on WW for info on proper headtube lengths and ideas for keeping your cockpit low. The linkage on top adds about 10mm height to your cockpit so some carefull attention needs to be used in sizing- in my case I shaved down my head tube to overcome this issue somewhat.


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## yoginasser (Sep 14, 2006)

Axis II said:


> The USE and German A I have no personal experience with so I can't speak to either of those forks. I may just have to get a German A to replace my FOX F80X maybe for next season IF it pans out. Lots of hype around that fork now but I don't want to be the test pilot for so much $ if it's not a stellar fork- I'll let Slob do that.  The Fournales is a proven design. It's been around for a while and if you do a search here or on WW you will find very solid positive info from long time users. There is something of a Fournales cult, actually. We are THE BELIEVERS.:thumbsup: Add all that up plus the fact that I found it for a fire sale price on Ebay and it's a no-brainer, IMO. I have to say that initial setup is a horror show, however. If you do go this route do the search here and on WW for info on proper headtube lengths and ideas for keeping your cockpit low. The linkage on top adds about 10mm height to your cockpit so some carefull attention needs to be used in sizing- in my case I shaved down my head tube to overcome this issue somewhat.


Well it definitely works for you rig.Very kool:thumbsup:


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Batas said:


> Your brake ARMS are too much open... They aren't paralel when you brake are they...


Yes, they are very open and they have to be this way temporarily until I trim off the top of the tension springs on the brakes so that they don't hit the fork bridge when engaged. Actually, I may just leave them this was as they appear to be working flawlessly.


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## elephant (Mar 21, 2006)

USE fork was mentioned in this thread and I was wondering if anyone has ever seen one except on the website photos.

Axis - keep us informed about the fork.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

elephant said:


> USE fork was mentioned in this thread and I was wondering if anyone has ever seen one except on the website photos.
> 
> Axis - keep us informed about the fork.


OK, so I've put in some real miles on it at this point. So far I'm still impressed. The lateral stiffness of this fork is really the biggest revelation for me after the SID. Again, it feels like a rigid in this respect. The only quibble I have had with it is the stem kept rotating to the left slightly after some ride time. I thought my stem wasn't clamping tight enough but it is actually the tension nut that screws down that the stem clamps onto. A little locktite should solve this issue. The other quibble has to do with the top linkage that can smack into your top tube in a crash when the wheel swings around. This happened once when I washed out in a hard corner but luckily I avoided a dent. I now have a little bar tape in place to absorb the impact of future impacts. This is a non-issue really so long as you take this precaution, IMO.


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## Scott Barnes (Oct 1, 2008)

Hello Axis, i really dig them forks! The bike you have is your taste fella maybe not mine but if it makes you grin wenya kikinit = glory be ] I have a 1" headtube app 5mm thick and contemplating taking a 1/16" inside diameter off .then getting a 1 1/8" headset and taking also a 1/16" off the seat thus hoping it would plug-in & be o.k.? All to fit a fournales fork 2! But ona Pace rc200 f2 that's my taste ] If this guy sells me the fork it's going ahead! Photos will follow = Retro Ride


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## Integrexman (Feb 9, 2013)

Axis II if you still have this fork. I how long is the upper and lower linkages?


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## autodoctor911 (Oct 30, 2012)

I know there's no one that can know anything about the right way to adjust things but Nino, but I have always had My brake levers in about the same position as yours on any bike that has a fairly low handlebar, and/or a short reach. I don't know how it could be comfortable or practical to have the levers adjusted anywhere higher than straight in line with your forearms when riding. I see most XC pros do it this way as well. Also, check out any BMX bike ridden by a full size adult pro rider.

As for the linear pull brakes being angled out, this can be advantageous If you need slightly more travel, since the leverage ratio is decreased. You may have to squeeze a little harder to get the same braking force, but the brakes will engage quicker, or have more clearance when not engaged. It is common to adjust cantilevers to various angles for this reason. The main reason this is not done with the linear pull V brakes is that the tire clearance limits how much you can do it most of the time.

BY the way, nice fork. I had one of the early AMP forks, and loved it. I thought they were 10x better than the Rock Shox of their day. I want to make a linkage shock work on a 4" wide front tire. I have seen a couple of Girvin ones modified or completely reengineered for this purpose. I did not know about the fornales till I read this. It may be a good option. I hate to give up my hydro disc brakes though.


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## millertm (Jul 20, 2012)

Slobberdoggy said:


> My friend had an AMP or still does but doesn't use it and it had this annoying design that used shims or something.


Like this? No shims, just a spring that you could buy with a heavy spring rate if needed. It also has a screw that is adjusted for preload. I still ride this 1993 bike, but I love my 29er.

Mark


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## coureur (May 7, 2008)

My 2 Litespeed with Fournalès (integrated stem ):


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## Integrexman (Feb 9, 2013)

Did it come with the stem or did you make it? When I make my front suspension I am making a stem like yours.


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## coureur (May 7, 2008)

No it's a Fournalès stem. It comes with a new steerer.


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## Integrexman (Feb 9, 2013)

How long are the upper and lower links pivot to pivot?


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## coureur (May 7, 2008)

Integrexman said:


> How long are the upper and lower links pivot to pivot?


upper : 100 mm
lower : 115 mm


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## WickedLite (Nov 15, 2010)

Very hard to find that Fournales stem. I have been looking for 5 years. 

Anyone has one and willing to give er to a good home let me know. 

Anyone want to convert Fournales to 650b, 29er or fat... It's pretty quick and painless to do


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

I never thought this thread would be resurrected. Seems like another life with the Look Fournales now. It was a sweet love affair while it lasted, though.


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## MichaelV8V (Aug 16, 2014)

My brand new Look Fournales have just arrived. 

They are a disappointing 1440g with disc brake bracket. But, I can see potential for 70g saving, so the credit card and dremmel are out and I'm about to get started.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

You need to put up some pictures!


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