# Pike 2014



## redranger (Feb 5, 2004)

They are in, got mine today.


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Well get riding it and report back on reliability!


----------



## redranger (Feb 5, 2004)

Going to the front range, Golden area, third week of August. That should tell all, even maybe a day at winter park.


----------



## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

pics.. first impressions.. something !


----------



## redranger (Feb 5, 2004)

It came while i was out of town, this is a new full build. Should have pics and impressions by next weekend.


----------



## conekilr (Oct 2, 2007)

I've read most of the news and specs on the new pike but heard no mention of internal travel adjust. Surely there is a pin-ladder system if you want to drop the 150 down to 140. Anybody have the deets?


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Yep, that's what I want to know - ability to internally drop travel or not? 

And what are the crown-to-axle heights of the various models? 

Been going back and forth between a tapered Revelation and a lowered, non-tapered Lyrik on my trail bike, and the Pike seems like it would be a great happy medium.

Near the stiffness of the Lyrik, but near the weight of the Revelation? So long as the damper turns out to not suck or crap out, seems like a winner!


----------



## conekilr (Oct 2, 2007)

Found this in another thread


----------



## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

flyinmike said:


> pics.. first impressions.. something !


Yes please!


----------



## Jab70 (Mar 23, 2007)

eagerly awaiting impressions as well (love my lyric)


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

Got a fractured bone in my foot, so no ride report. But, after a neighborhood curb jump test ride, I'd say that this fork is very plush, very smooth, and under hard braking feels very stiff.


----------



## Pelly_NH (Feb 15, 2005)

Love the black on black!


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

conekilr said:


> Found this in another thread
> View attachment 810053


Sweet! Thanks!

Now as long as it can be lowered somewhat...

The 26" version dropped down to 140mm would get me right where I want.


----------



## conekilr (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah, same here. Considering this fork for my Mojo HD-R with 'tweener wheels but don't want to sacrifice the geo. Can't imagine there not being a pin/spacer system for adjusting down to 140mm or even 130mm. I find it odd that there is no mention anywhere about this. Called bikeco this morning and they are checking it out...


----------



## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

My 29er version is sitting at my LBS right now. I forgot to take pictures last Friday. I left it there because it seemed like it was still rumored that the 160mm 29er version was a possibility. My LBS spoke with SRAM and confirmed the 160mm version for the 29er, but as we all know, the 150mm Pike requires a new air spring. Fine by me, I'll just have both air springs to go back and forth to figure out which I end up liking better. LBS also told me it'll be a few more months til the 160mm spring is released. I'll take some un-boxing pictures tomorrow when I go to my shop again. It'll be awhile before I can give a ride report as I bought this fork for a build project. I want to get the new Specialized 29er S-Works Enduro frame and build one up. LBS is telling me September or October before the frames are released.


----------



## conekilr (Oct 2, 2007)

Ok, did a little more digging. Some of the info and general descriptions of the Pike are kind of confusing. I've seen it described as a 160-140mm travel fork some places. But it depends on which wheel size and whether its solo air or dual position air. Also, each travel corresponds to a unique air spring as mentioned above. The Dual Position Air maintains a consistent air spring volume. So here is the break down, please correct me if I'm wrong:

26"
Dual Position Air: externally adjustable 160->130mm (infinite I think?)
-or-
Solo Air 160 fixed
Solo Air 150 fixed

27.5"
DPA: ext. adj. 160->130 (infinite I think?)
-or-
SA 160 fixed
SA 150 fixed

29"
DPA: ext. adj. 150->120 (infinite?)
-or-
SA 150 fixed
SA 140 fixed


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

*Got my Solo Air in 150mm!*









I only have one ride on the fork, and I've never owned a Fox 34, but so far I have nothing but smiles to report. Super stiff. Freaken beast of a fork compared to the Fox 32 140 I'm coming from. Easy to set up (that's a big bonus for me...). Looks sweet (NOT a fan of gold ano...). Best of all, the longer maintenance interval!

The most noticiable difference coming from a Fox 32 is the stiffness, but the fork, even new, feels a bit more plush and has about the same brake dive. Need more time switching between bikes to really have a sense of this though.

Tire clearance with Hans Dampf 2.35 is great. I suppose since I only ride dry conditions the jury is still out, but looks like loads of room. Could go with a larger tire and still have some mud clearance (mud? it hasn't rained in months....). Will update if anything interesting happens.


----------



## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

Frikkin Darth Vader bike! Looking good!

mk


----------



## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

Hmmm. . . I am thinking about this fork . . . If anyone can compare to a lyrik I would love to hear impressions.


----------



## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

Just a headz-up, when I got my Pike it was wrapped in sticky bubble-wrap. That glue used on the bubble-wrap will transfer to the stanchions, etc. and gum up the seals. I used Goo-Gone to get it off, but mineral spirits would likely work as well.


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

This thread is pretty worthless so far. It would be nice to have a detailed report on performance and comparisons to Fox 34, 36, Lyric, Slant, etc. In time I'm sure.


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

BushPilot said:


> This thread is pretty worthless so far. It would be nice to have a detailed report on performance and comparisons to Fox 34, 36, Lyric, Slant, etc. In time I'm sure.


Rode the piss outa mine Saturday, way better than a Fox 34, similar in feel to my CCDBa rear.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Anyone have any definitive answer yet as to whether these things can be lowered or not? I want a 150mm 26" dropped to 140mm. 

SRAM is being very uncomunicative about that. 

IMO, being able to easily (fairly) adjust the travel is one of the best features of Solo Air. It'll suck if you can't do that any longer, or if the mtb group mind community can't figure out a work around.


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

Good to hear. Thanks. After the Fox 2013 line-up, I would have a hard time coughing up $900 for one of their products.

Does the Pike ride relatively high in it's travel as advertised? Riding low has been a complaint about the fox 34 and x-fus slant.


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

BushPilot said:


> Good to hear. Thanks. After the Fox 2013 line-up, I would have a hard time coughing up $900 for one of their products.
> 
> Does the Pike ride relatively high in it's travel as advertised? Riding low has been a complaint about the fox 34 and x-fus slant.


Don't really know, I didn't pay much attention to it. I never felt that the F34 rode particularly low either. What I do know, at proper sag, my 120mm F34 Talas pre CTD rode too firm in most terrain, yet I could get it to bottom at least once on a typical ride. Dialed such that there was some minimal plushness, I would easily blow through all travel. I never really noticed that it was particularly flimsy either.

Pike 140mm soloair, on the other hand, at proper sag rides very plush when dialed properly. It uses 1/2 of the available travel just riding over rocks and hammering some light downhill chunk. I'm not quite dialed yet, but you really have to push it hard to go much beyond 85% travel use. There is no noticeable transition between the plush feel and the firm feel. Very stiff fork both front to rear, and side to side.

I was always a strict Fox guy. The crap CTD shock that came on the back of my bike was quickly traded for Cane Creek, now I've swapped the fork out for a Pike. My bike rides much better, especially after both front and rear suspensions have been changed. Plush, yet not mushy, nice progression to quite firm when deep in the stroke.


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

I would second Optimus' comments. I don't feel my Fox road low in its travel, but it wasn't as plush or stiff. So far, the Pike is super plush but seems to always have "more" to go. It's like a super trained trail dog that just always wants to go further, longer, rougher, more. I like Fox fine, but I could never get the same combination of small and big hit comfort. 

I also find that I ride a lot with it fully open and don't really care. As long as I'm seated and pedaling smooth, it doesn't feel too soft but still give nice small bump compliance.


----------



## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

Optimus said:


> Don't really know, I didn't pay much attention to it. I never felt that the F34 rode particularly low either. What I do know, at proper sag, my 120mm F34 Talas pre CTD rode too firm in most terrain, yet I could get it to bottom at least once on a typical ride. Dialed such that there was some minimal plushness, I would easily blow through all travel. I never really noticed that it was particularly flimsy either.
> 
> Pike 140mm soloair, on the other hand, at proper sag rides very plush when dialed properly. It uses 1/2 of the available travel just riding over rocks and hammering some light downhill chunk. I'm not quite dialed yet, but you really have to push it hard to go much beyond 85% travel use. There is no noticeable transition between the plush feel and the firm feel. Very stiff fork both front to rear, and side to side.
> 
> I was always a strict Fox guy. The crap CTD shock that came on the back of my bike was quickly traded for Cane Creek, now I've swapped the fork out for a Pike. My bike rides much better, especially after both front and rear suspensions have been changed. Plush, yet not mushy, nice progression to quite firm when deep in the stroke.


I would echo most of what you said, although I have a CTD shock, so can't compare to a CCDB.
BTW, mine came with a seal kit and two orange spacer looking thingy's. What are those? Hard being on the bleeding edge because SRAM is slow to print a manual.


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

White Bear said:


> I would echo most of what you said, although I have a CTD shock, so can't compare to a CCDB.
> BTW, mine came with a seal kit and two orange spacer looking thingy's. What are those? Hard being on the bleeding edge because SRAM is slow to print a manual.


The seal kit is for doing a seal/oil service. The spacer thingies are for changing the volume in your air spring, for tuning the rate of progressiveness. In other words, you can adjust the rate at which your fork transitions from plush to firm.


----------



## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Optimus said:


> The seal kit is for doing a seal/oil service. The spacer thingies are for changing the volume in your air spring, for tuning the rate of progressiveness. In other words, you can adjust the rate at which your fork transitions from plush to firm.


Thank you! This is my first RS, except for an older Totem, so is this (air spacer & seal kit) common among the various RS forks? 
When would you expect RS to produce a maintenance manual and/or useful owners manual?


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

Minimal info on their site, minimal on youtube. There will be something out soon, either from RS, or individuals posting on youtube etc.


----------



## Goblin (May 21, 2004)

I don't have a whole lot of time on mine yet as I had to switch out cranks but initial impressions are really good. Stiff, plush and adjustable. Granted I don't have a lot of experience on many recent forks (just traded my '96 habanero in for a '13 Zeus...big step up!) I did have a year with an Ibis mojo equipped with X-fusion Velvet. Other than the maxle (I preferred the X-fusion) the Pike is pretty freaking awesome. 

Weird that RS provides no documents online or in the box to help with fork setup but whatever, I'll figure out what feels good over time.

Some were questioning travel adjustability - I have the 27.5 dual air and with a dial on the left leg can adjust min/max travel minimum being 130 to max 160.

So far very stoked with the bike, forks 'n all.


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I got the 150mm 26 pike and am very happy. I have an xfusion velvet 140 and a 2010 fox 150 32 talas fit RLC with kashima. All have tapered and 15qr. The pike is by far the smoothest and despite the fact I only weigh 125lbs the extra stiffness is quite obvious and very welcome even over relatively small bumps like 6" rocks. 

The pike only weighs 50g more than my fox so I can't imagine buying a 32 or 34 fox knowing that. The 35 pike is amazing.


----------



## photodog (Jun 2, 2008)

I can give a limited ride report. So far, Rockshox has a real winner with this fork. Some (me included) wished for 20mm but having a few hours on it now I can say it's not an issue with a solid wheelset.

Background: I've been riding since the mid 90's and was not a rockshox fan until the Lyric; Marzochi until they went to crap then Fox after that was my preference. I ride very rocky S. Cal trails and like AM style riding hitting the intermediate jumps and the tech trails. I've owned just about every fox fork and liked the 36 float on my Nomad but the Lyric solo air was better. I put a Marzochi 55TI on and then took it off after a month as the Lyric was 95% as good on the way down and 100% better up. Now I'm on a 2012 Remedy.

I've spent the last 6 months on a 34 Float 150 and been fighting brake dive so bad I thought the bike it was on just sucked. Combined with the typical-for-Fox doesn't use the last inch of travel, the 34 is a dud IMO. I'm sending mine in for the 2014 damper upgrade but am leaving in a week for a big trip so picked up a Pike so I wasn't without a AM ride. My best decision in quite some time.

First off, the Pike doesn't dive and my bike now handles like it should. Secondly, while sagging a perfect for me 25%, I used all but the last 5mm of travel on my typical trails with a few smaller jumps. Same trail and same sag on the 34 and I never got within an inch of using all the travel. Even if the 2014 parts make the dive issue go away, Fox has had the issue of not using it's last 15% of travel for 10 years so I don't expect that to be cured with the change (I've had 8 different fox forks, they've all been like that). 

The Pike felt very stiff in braking and the corners, a noticeable increase from the 34. Not that the 34 is bad but the Pikes increased plushness (yes, it's much more plush than the 34, this is probably the most improved aspect between the two forks and quite surprising for a not even broken in fork) combined with the stiffness is a real confidence booster. I always said the Remedy is more like a long travel trail bike but with this fork it finally feels like an AM bike that's not just capable but also confidence inspiring.

I didn't even really research the new damper thing in there but can say that the platform works very well and can be made anywhere from slight to very solid and everything between. Our rides are pretty much all straight up then straight down so I haven't really tried riding it down with the platform on so can't comment on how it would work somewhere like Arizona with lots of small ups and downs and no time to flip the switch. I have it set with just a few clicks and it's perfect for what I like.

I know some are asking for a comparison vs. the Lyric or 36 but that's just not a fair comparison IMO. The Pike is quite a bit lighter and is more an Enduro (whatever that is) and light-AM fork whereas the Lyric and 36 are at the heavy end of AM and light freeride. For what it's worth, I think if you hit any significant gap jumps or drops over 5 ft you should run the bigger forks. Pike would be fine if you hit everything perfect but screw up and that 10% extra the bigger fork gives might make a difference. If you mostly ride technical trails and stick to the table tops the Pike is the way to go. If I still had a Nomad it would run a Lyric. Remedy carbon is well matched with the Pike.

Only questionable thing is that you are buying into a 1st production run product so who knows what the long term issues will be? For me, the unknown-issues-but-looks-good-now is better than the known issues with the 34.


----------



## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

Optimus said:


> Got a fractured bone in my foot, so no ride report. But, after a neighborhood curb jump test ride, I'd say that this fork is very plush, very smooth, and under hard braking feels very stiff.
> 
> View attachment 810305
> 
> ...


What is your Rune weighing in at now with the Pike on it?


----------



## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Photo dog, thanks! Yesterday I walked into Wrench Science with about $1000 for FOX 34, walked out with ordered PIKE ! Good to hear your review. I have owned about 10 FOX forks/shocks and I am hoping this fork is as you reviewed. Fingers crossed! I will be going from Fox Float 32 CTD 150, to PIKE 160. Sweet! I love FOX forks, and I think this PIKE, if it holds tough, is going to up the game of all fork manufactures. This is good for all of us over the next few years. I really wanted a Lyrik after riding friends bike for 4 days, but my 15mm wheels are not convertible. Pike fills the bill with 35 mm stanchions, I hope it is as tuneable as FOX. I don't get super dialed, but I do spend time setting up fork each few rides.


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

I doubt very much that you'll regret your decision, hoolie. I replaced a 140mm F34 on my 29er with the 140mm Pike soloair. I am destroying my previous best elapsed times on all of the downhills that I track. If you've ever ridden on a Cane Creek Double Barrel, this fork has a very similar smooth and bottomless feel.


----------



## tryinghardrider (Oct 7, 2012)

I've got a 2013 Remedy and the FOX 150 32 CTD that came with it SUCKS. Photodog's description of diving sounds like the crappy FOX fork I have on my Remedy. I've been toying with the idea of replacing it with a 2013 Marz 55CR lowered to 150 (or get an angleset and retain the Marz at 170 travel), or a Lyrik. But after seeing photodog's post on the Pike, I have another contender for a new Remedy fork. The black stanchions of the Pike are a + in the looks department IMO (kinda sick of seeing gold stanchions everywhere).


----------



## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

Have a few rides on my Pike Solo Air 160mm 26" now...

Very stiff compared to the Revelations and Rebas I have been running for years. Tracks great.

Extremely plush, plusher than my Revelation was, even with the big stantions.

Easy setup, pump it up and go, no wasted time finding the fine line between plushness and travel loss as with dual air. 

The damper knob came loose right out of the box. I removed the screw, took the knob off, tightened down an odd inner threaded sleeve nut, and it was fine. The damper knob engages with the cartridge using an odd knurled contact point, it is not keyed in any way. This could be a problem, the knob takes real force to turn... No idea why they didn't use a keyed design like all the other RS forks. 

Rides high in the travel even when set up pretty soft. Not sure if it is using all the travel when set up with the proper sag. Will be watching this. 

New Maxle design is awesome, much easier and grips better (can tell because my roof rack adapter used to slip and now it doesn't).

Decals are not clear coated over so if you don't like them you can easily remove.

Really nice fork. Not sure if it will make my riding better, but it certainly has a nice feel. I am very glad that I chose this over the Fox 34 and Slant.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

Sounds like the new Pikes are a winner from the reports so far. Pinkbike liked them too.

RockShox Pike - Tested - Pinkbike


----------



## ski1970 (Aug 20, 2007)

Is it me or does the pike A/C see, lower then the fox 34 160? My front end sits lower than it did with the fox 34 160 ( I have the pie 160 dual air). The Pike is defiantly more raked than the fox on my 2013 Enduro.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Fellas w/ this fork, I'm at a toss-up between the Solo-air and The Dual Position Air. I have NO experience w/ the Rockshox travel adjust forks, but the going thinking on Fox is stay away from the TALAS because they're overly complicated to service and all the extra seals make the fork feel like poo. So, need some guidance w/ this. I typically ride the Fox equivalent of the Solo-air (Float...32, 34, and 36). TIA.


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

Soloair is super plush, I have not yet wished that I could shorten the travel, climbs just fine.


----------



## ben_stamp (Nov 30, 2005)

Just a quick heads up, the new spesh camber evo top model uses a 29" pike reduced to 120mm travel so some parts must be available to reduce travel of solo air models at least at oem level.


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

ben_stamp said:


> Just a quick heads up, the new spesh camber evo top model uses a 29" pike reduced to 120mm travel so some parts must be available to reduce travel of solo air models at least at oem level.


They make all kinds of stuff we can't buy. Certain sizes of monarch xx for instance. It's really unfortunate.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

Has anyone used/installed the "Tokens" to make the air spring more progressive? Am interested in this fork and like a slightly progressive spring. Would be interested to hear how easy/hard it is to install the tokens, how many tokens used, and what effect it has on the spring.

Cheers,


----------



## hord1080 (Mar 7, 2013)

I recently read something about Push industries releasing spacers to tune the air chamber for the new Fox forks, anyone who has complaints like above try these out? Seems like maybe Fox missed the mark on the air chamber volume and this could iron that out. It's a bummer to hear all the negative Fox talk on here lately, I always wanted to own a bike with a Fox Fork since the were the shizz back in the day.

I am very interested in this new Pike for my Trek Stache 7 (currently has Recon Silver TK29) but as a diehard motocross guy I'm not a fan of the black coating on the sliders (I love gold!!!). I feel like I've seen Walmart bikes with cheapo forks with black coated sliders and it just makes me think cheap and that it will eventually wear down/off and look even cheaper. This seem possible?


----------



## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

About the FOX CTD, I am no fan, I would rather they put a light switch, like on my wall. On or off! Simple. I DO think the CTD needs to have accurate oil levels to work correctly. The fact that some and not others have problems would indicate oil levels from factory would be culprit, not the mechanical parts, as they would be identical. In addition to my FOX CTD Float 150 32, I have a TALAS 29er. I don't know what the TALAS is supposed to do. Useless to advanced riders. I try to use it sometimes so I feel better about the money I spent to get remote lockout for singlespeed. In general, i really like the FOX products as they have served me well. Pike still on order, I think I missed fast shipping by a week, as the demand is rising and supplies dwindling? C'mon shipper guy!


----------



## photodog (Jun 2, 2008)

10 or so additional hours since my previous review and I'm appreciating the fork even more. Very solid fork and much more plush than the 34 was. 34 is on it's way to Fox for the "fix," I will toss it back on when it's back. If the diving issue is solved it is still a really good fork... but the Pike is better.

Tryinghard and Hoolie: that 32 150mm is a joke! You guys are going to be really pleased with the Pike. What a horrible spec by some product manager in the midwest that 32/150 is. The Remedy is such a great bike but nobody knows about it because it's handicapped by a noodle of a fork and super crappy wheels. $5k for a 9.8 that needs another $1800 into it to make is as good as a $5k Ibis is just dumb. Loving mine now though, one of my favorite bikes right next to my Nomad.


----------



## tryinghardrider (Oct 7, 2012)

Thanks photodog. I'm seriously considering the 2013 Pike 150 now. Sounds like the perfect replacement for the crappy FOX 32 150 CTD. It's currently a fight between the 2013 Pike and the 2013 Marz 55CR. Hmmmm... Hmmmm....


----------



## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

Someone clear this out please; 

perfect version of pike for me would be: 

29, dual position air, 140mm 
Will it be possible to get this version? Would really like the dual air (140-110mm) as i have some quite steep ascents... 

what is the product number (i cannot find it anywhere...) 

Thx, M


----------



## photodog (Jun 2, 2008)

I was a long time fan of Marzocchi and was really happy when they got their quality control back in order. I had the 2011 55ti while it was super plush, I did not like it as much as my Lyric. No platform was a big part of that but the bigger issue was that it was heavier and only a little more plush than the Lyric, not enough to justify all the extra weight.

As for the Solo Air vs. 2 Step, Rockshox doesn't have a very good history with the 2 step so I'd personally avoid it. Of course I'm not really into travel adjustments even if they didn't break down and cause more friction so take my opinion for what it's worth.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

2 Step was discontinued long ago, Pike and Lyrik use DUAL POSITION air springs, not 2 step.


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

*160 lowered to 150*

Anyone can answer to this question that has been already asked couple of times here.
I purchased 160mm single air and want to lower it to 150, is it possible?


----------



## bcall8 (Mar 26, 2011)

No...from what I've read the new pike cannot be lowered. I believe I read that in this thread. They use different bladders for each size. This is why you can purchase it in a 150 or a 160 where as a fox only offers aftermarket forks in a 160 (which can be lowered).


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

Thanks for your answer, but do you have any source for it?
I don't think you can compare it to FOX shocks and also almost all previous RS shocks was lowered with no problem by adding a spacer to a air spring...


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Anyone know of a dealer with availability?


----------



## bcall8 (Mar 26, 2011)

if the I remember that I read that it couldn't be lowered. I've tried find where....but no luck. I've been reading everything I could find about this fork. One of the comments in the pinkbike review was from a guy who had asked his sram rep the same question and was told that it could not be lowered. This wasn't what I originally read though. Sorry I don't have more info. My comment on about fox forks wasn't to compare them. But it makes sense to me that they offer the pike in a 150 and 160 for 26 inch wheels. I always thought that most companies that have forks with the ability to lower the travel don't bother to sell them in multiple sizes. They just.sell them at 160 for instance and let the buyer lower them if desired. This isn't true for complete builds though. I could be wrong on that but it makes sense. Also if the internals are completely new the old way of lowering the fork may not work.....I don't know...sorry


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

scvkurt03 said:


> Anyone know of a dealer with availability?


The path bike shop in Tustin California has them. That's where I got mine. They had several when I was there, give them a call they may have the flavor you want.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> Anyone know of a dealer with availability?


Universal Cycles has the 26" 150 Universal Cycles -- Rock Shox Pike RCT3 Solo Air Fork 2014

Use the "vip15" coupon code and it drops the price 15% to about $833.

Cheers,


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

I found this pinkbike post:
RockShox Pike - Tested by mikelevy - Pinkbike
"All Pike models will be air sprung, with riders able to choose from either a Dual Position Air (DPA) system that allows for 30mm of travel adjustment by way of simplified internals compared to previous iterations, or the fixed-travel Solo Air option that is tested here for those who don't feel the need to lower the front of their bike for climbing or tamer terrain. The spring rate on all versions of the Pike can be tuned by way of RockShox's 'Bottomless Tokens', plastic spacers that are threaded by hand into the underside of the top cap. Multiple Bottomless Tokens can be stacked up in order to increase the progressiveness of the fork throughout its travel. 
Some Pike models use RockShox's Dual Position Air travel adjust system (left), although our test fork employs their non-adjustable Solo Air spring. Volume spacers (right) can be used to adjust the fork's progression, if required."

So I am now more confused then ever, is it possible to lower or not ???


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

vadimn said:


> I found this pinkbike post:
> 
> So I am now more confused then ever, is it possible to lower or not ???


Bottomless tokens just tune the spring. Dual Position Air is just travel adjust. It doesn't "lower" the fork like turning the 160 into a 150, but if you want a 130mm fork you can buy the 160 DPA and use the travel adjust feature and just leave it at 130. The flip of a switch and it's back to 160. So far SRAM doesn't support lowering the pike.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

It looks like a solid fork, but I'm disappointed on the amount of lubrication oil in the damper side (5 ml).


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

tacubaya said:


> It looks like a solid fork, but I'm disappointed on the amount of lubrication oil in the damper side (5 ml).


Could you explain why? Would be interesting to know.

Cheers,


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Hypethetical: Say you get a 140mm 29er...think that a Lyrik 160/170/180mm air piston assembly might fit in a Pike to get you the 160, if you stuff the thing into the Pike in the 180mm setting? :ihih:


----------



## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

I spoke to SRAM - no way to lower without replacing the air spring assembly. They said that they should make them available shortly for under $100


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

jjkitt said:


> Could you explain why? Would be interesting to know.
> 
> Cheers,


Explain what?


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Does anyone with these have solid info on servicing these forks? 

I heard through the grapevine that they are using a very specific oil in them, that has a very short service life (I believe it is used in motocross race engines, requiring replacement after a few hours of use in that field). I am really interested if there will be a greater durability as we obviously do not have as much heat buildup that would break down the oil in the same fashion, or what sort of maintenance schedule sram is intending us to use on this fork.


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

006_007 said:


> Does anyone with these have solid info on servicing these forks?
> 
> I heard through the grapevine that they are using a very specific oil in them, that has a very short service life (I believe it is used in motocross race engines, requiring replacement after a few hours of use in that field). I am really interested if there will be a greater durability as we obviously do not have as much heat buildup that would break down the oil in the same fashion, or what sort of maintenance schedule sram is intending us to use on this fork.


According to one of the videos SRAM did they are using an oil they sell but they don't seem to care if you want to use a different one.

This is the service schedule from my pike user manual:

Every ride: clean stanchions, lubricate dust seals and stanchions (they say "upper tubes" in the manual), check air pressure, inspect stanchions for scratches.

25 hours: check front suspension fasteners for proper torque

50 hours: "Remove lowers, clean/inspect bushings and change oil bath"

100 hours: "Clean and lubricate air spring assembly" and "Change oil in dampening system (including hydraulic lockout)"


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

litany said:


> Every ride: clean stanchions, lubricate dust seals and stanchions (they say "upper tubes" in the manual),


My fork came with something indistinguishable to slick honey on the dust wipers and upper tubes. No visible oil anywhere but it seems they pre-lubricated it for us.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

006_007 said:


> Does anyone with these have solid info on servicing these forks?
> 
> I heard through the grapevine that they are using a very specific oil in them, that has a very short service life (I believe it is used in motocross race engines, requiring replacement after a few hours of use in that field). I am really interested if there will be a greater durability as we obviously do not have as much heat buildup that would break down the oil in the same fashion, or what sort of maintenance schedule sram is intending us to use on this fork.


Lubrication oil is Maxima Maxum Ultra 0w30 (motorcycle engine oil). It does not have a short service life but because of the low amount of lubrication in damper side (5 ml) I would recommend frequent maintenance.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> Lubrication oil is Maxima Maxum Ultra 0w30 (motorcycle engine oil). It does not have a short service life but because of the low amount of lubrication in damper side (5 ml) I would recommend frequent maintenance.


That makes a heck of a lot more sense - and also why SRAM is recommending that every 50 hours of use.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

baltik said:


> I spoke to SRAM - no way to lower without replacing the air spring assembly. They said that they should make them available shortly for under $100


Were you answering my post? If so, I was trying to see if a 140 Pike 29 can be bumped up to a 160 by using the 180mm travel setting Lyrik air piston for a 26...I was trying to extend the 140, not shorten.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

So that's what the red things are for. I was going crazy trying to figure out if they were part of the fork or part of my bike or just some random parts thrown in. Axle to crown is close to 571, I got 575 but that may just be in dragging the tape-measure over. Curious what settings others are using? I started with about 70psi for 170lbs (riding weight) and it seems to be a little too much. Only about 5 clicks of rebound, but that seems like it wouldn't be enough. I go back and forth on compression between zero and dialing in some for bigger hits/drops.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm looking at the 29'' 140mm Pike... but can't decide on Solo Air or Dual Position Air.

I've ridden a Fox Talas, and the adjustable travel knob kept slipping on its own (without my doing it). Is this basically a problem with all externally-adjustable travel forks? 

Should I just stick with the Solo Air?


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

Also, what's with the "51mm offset" option? ... sorry, this is a beginner question. I don't really know what that means. I have a Yeti SB-95 and I'm not sure if I want the 51mm offset or not...?


----------



## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

addATX said:


> I'm looking at the 29'' 140mm Pike... but can't decide on Solo Air or Dual Position Air.
> 
> I've ridden a Fox Talas, and the adjustable travel knob kept slipping on its own (without my doing it). Is this basically a problem with all externally-adjustable travel forks?
> 
> Should I just stick with the Solo Air?


I have the Pike 140 on my Large SB95c. I would guess it depends on the type of riding you will be doing whether to go with dual. The Solo is awesome and I think the SB-95 is well suited to the 140. I have a lot of time on the 95A with the Fox 120 and the 140 seems just as agile and much improved tuning. I do tend to run it in the middle damping position on XC type trails and open on the AM type trails. At first I was thinking about putting in a 10 mm spacer, but now with more time on the 140 I have totally given that idea up. Hope that helps.


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

addATX said:


> I'm looking at the 29'' 140mm Pike... but can't decide on Solo Air or Dual Position Air.
> 
> I've ridden a Fox Talas, and the adjustable travel knob kept slipping on its own (without my doing it). Is this basically a problem with all externally-adjustable travel forks?
> 
> Should I just stick with the Solo Air?


The problem with externally adjustable travel forks is basically there's more to go wrong. I rode a couple of talas forks for years and never had that problem but I did run into other problems. If you service it its usually fine but it can be a pain for sure. With other rockshox forks they allow you to buy the soloair or dual position air cartridge for a reasonable price and install it yourself. Not sure if the pike ones are out yet but you aren't stuck with your decision forever or anything.

Also people complain that the more complicated air systems have more stiction.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks Simplemind and litany.

Good to hear both counts. I didn't realize that you can switch out the dual position and solo eventually if needed. 

And, Simplemind, I haven't had my sb95a on a 140 at all yet, so it's cool to hear that it's all good.

Now, about that 51mm offset...?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

addATX said:


> Now, about that 51mm offset...?


I contacted Fox about their 34 29er... The tech (Matt?) told me the 34's rake has never changed...always been 51mm.

Edit: I was going to make the jump from 34 to Pike which is what caused me to make the call. But, I decided to wait it out for 1 model year on the Pike...I'm sitting on a brand new 2014 (warrantied) 34 Float 29 CTD...


----------



## whiteox (Aug 11, 2009)

Did anyone receive their fork minus the sag markings on the stanchion? My 29 solo air 140 just arrived and they are nowhere to be found.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

whiteox said:


> Did anyone receive their fork minus the sag markings on the stanchion? My 29 solo air 140 just arrived and they are nowhere to be found.


Some other people have gotten their hands on the 140 model and reported that it lacks the sag markings. Only the 150/160 model has them.


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

When considering travel adjust also consider how much you need it (du...). With my old bike I sometimes used it. New one, no. My new one is a Pike solo 150. The point? 

The new, a TBLTc, has a longer wheelbase. With that the front end stays more planted.


----------



## TwoNeener (Sep 11, 2011)

For anyone curious, I called Yeti about the Pike and the various offset options and they recommended just going with the standard offset. So that's what I ended up getting (the 150mm version). I can tell a slight difference in handling from the Fox 34 I had on my SB95 but I am undecided if it's positive or negative in nature yet. However, the Pike itself is much more plush and a decidedly smoother ride. The annoying brake dive from the Fox is also gone.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

So my fork was supposed to be delivered today. Received an email update 5 minutes after the FedEx guy left. I was home...never heard a knock or anything. Now I have to wait til Tuesday! Ugh...


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

I received mine, last week, what I can tell you after a only two rides its amazing fork!
I am running 30% sag, because fork is 160mm and I want to lower it to 150, so little more sag feeling great on my banshee spitfire.


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

Got a 160mm on the way for my SJ EVO 26.


----------



## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm running a Pike 140mm Solo on my Ripley and find that I need to run way lower than the recommended PSI to achieve 30% sag. Is anyone else having this issue? This is my first RS fork and typically Fox's recommendations were fairly close.


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

bassn said:


> I'm running a Pike 140mm Solo on my Ripley and find that I need to run way lower than the recommended PSI to achieve 30% sag. Is anyone else having this issue? This is my first RS fork and typically Fox's recommendations were fairly close.


Rockshox recommended settings are notorious for being way off, so don't worry about it. Just set your air pressure to get your 30% sag and go ride.


----------



## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

Kiwiplague said:


> Rockshox recommended settings are notorious for being way off, so don't worry about it. Just set your air pressure to get your 30% sag and go ride.


Thanks. I just thought 50 PSI for a 175 lb. rider seemed low, but as you say, set the sag and ride


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Also running 50 psi at 190lbs. Working great and haven't bottomed it yet though I'm riding slow for other reasons (arm injury).


----------



## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

bassn said:


> I'm running a Pike 140mm Solo on my Ripley and find that I need to run way lower than the recommended PSI to achieve 30% sag. Is anyone else having this issue? This is my first RS fork and typically Fox's recommendations were fairly close.


30% sag on a fork sounds like an awful lot. can you run the air pressure that low without bottoming all the time? that is how I would be determining sag, especially without an independent high speed compression adjustment.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

hardboiled said:


> 30% sag on a fork sounds like an awful lot. can you run the air pressure that low without bottoming all the time? that is how I would be determining sag, especially without an independent high speed compression adjustment.


30% does sound high, especially for a fork reputed to run high in its travel while still being small-bump sensitive. I had to run my 2014 Fox 34 at 30% to be soft enough over small stuff for my liking. Still never used the last 15mm of travel with that thing, even off 3 foot drops to flat while at 30% sag.


----------



## BorisD (Apr 6, 2006)

Hoping fellow Pike owners can confirm a suspected problem.

Got my new Pikes yesterday 26" 150mm, was very pleased - weigh only 80g more than my RCT3 Revs (1801g vs 1727g both with a 195mm steerer). Amazing.
Very stiff and not as 'divey' as the Revs they replaced.

However I think the damper is not working as it should -

The dial adjuster only has two 'clicks' - one for fully open; the other when selecting platform; but no 'click' when selecting lockout.
In lockout I can easily get 55mm of travel by pushing down on the fork.
The Low Speed Compression has very little effect.
When the rebound is on full 'slow' the fork still returns relatively quickly.

Can someone confirm their fork does not behave like this?

Thanks


----------



## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

hardboiled said:


> 30% sag on a fork sounds like an awful lot. can you run the air pressure that low without bottoming all the time? that is how I would be determining sag, especially without an independent high speed compression adjustment.


I also felt the same and initially ran the pressure at 60 which gave me about 25% sag. During my first descent on yesterday ride I still had about 25mm of travel unused. This run included a few 2 foot drops, smaller jumps, rocks, and pretty beat up trail conditions. At that point I lowered it to 50 and pretty much used most of the travel.


----------



## Muttonchops (Jul 16, 2004)

Good info here. Ordered a PIKE y'day to replace my Revelation. Hopefully will notice less vibrations / flex / dive which have really been screwing with me. 

re: Sag I had the revelation sitting at 25 - 30% with 80 - 90 psi and got advised to use less sag to improve the small bump compliance (counter intuitive). I had to up that to 125 psi before i got the sag around 20%. Definitely helped with the diving...but thats about it. I would expect to run my fork around 25% - 30% as others mention

So looking fwd to it.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Muttonchops said:


> re: Sag I had the revelation sitting at 25 - 30% with 80 - 90 psi and got advised to _use less sag to improve the small bump compliance_ (counter intuitive).


Can you ref your source for this statement...some sort of manual or a RS tune tech? It is indeed very counter intuitive!


----------



## Muttonchops (Jul 16, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Can you ref your source for this statement...some sort of manual or a RS tune tech? It is indeed very counter intuitive!


ha ha...not so lucky. It was from esteemed posters on this forum (look for "Revelation" thread from last week)....i was looking for any input to tweak performance for the better.

what i did discover this weekend which may be total BS...was to run the fork with more damping (compression and rebound) than felt good initially...because i felt these opened up after a short time - damper fluid possibly heating up? This was on long descents where the fluids had time to heat up as opposed to XC pedaling.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Muttonchops said:


> ha ha...not so lucky. It was from esteemed posters on this forum (look for "Revelation" thread from last week)....i was looking for any input to tweak performance for the better.
> 
> what i did discover this weekend which may be total BS...was to run the fork with more damping (compression and rebound) than felt good initially...because i felt these opened up after a short time - damper fluid possibly heating up? This was on long descents where the fluids had time to heat up as opposed to XC pedaling.


So, mostly anecdotal... That's okay, if it works. Does it work?

For anyone else reading this, don't get me wrong. The Pike is leaps and bounds better than the Fox, out of the box!


----------



## Muttonchops (Jul 16, 2004)

I tried everything i know - all ranges of air pressure (high / med / low) , changing damper fluid and playing with my compression settings as described. I ordered the Pike....kinda answers the question as to whether i was succesful.

re: the Revelation...single big hits were actually fine. It soaked up a surprise 3' nose heavy roll over this weekend when for sure i thought i was going OTB...but when it came to high speed chunder / roots and heavy front braking - it struggled.

Everyone sounds stoked on the Pike...and I am enjoying reading all the feedack / input. Hopefully I will be able to "plug and play" when it arrives. 

thanks.


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Mutton you are going to love the Pike on the Endo. I certainly do.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

*Have a question*

Just received my 26" 160mm Pike. I was testing out the the settings; open, peddle, locked. In the locked position the fork did not lockout completely like X-Fusion or a Fox. It did compress slightly and with the feel of very heavy damping. Those that are running the Pike is this the same for you?

Cheers,


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Yeah. I'm pretty sure they said that's how it's supposed to work. If you want go check the pinkbike coverage of it. Basically it doesn't lock out it just gets really firm.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jjkitt said:


> Just received my 26" 160mm Pike. I was testing out the the settings; open, peddle, locked. In the locked position the fork did not lockout completely like X-Fusion or a Fox. It did compress slightly and with the feel of very heavy damping. Those that are running the Pike is this the same for you?
> 
> Cheers,


On the bike the compression adjuster has a pretty big effect, it doesn't turn it into a rigid fork, but it gives enough compression damping to make it resist bobbing if you are pedaling up a hill or something. Where it really shines is in rough chunky terrain where you don't want it blowing through travel. A few clicks of the adjuster keep it from diving and it still feels great, not harsh. It's exactly what low speed compression is supposed to be IMO.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

So, found the fork entirely too linear out of the box on my initial test ride. It felt really unstable, but there was pretty much no compression damping. The fork is a 150mm 29er non-adjust travel fork.

Initial ride setup was 60 psi to 25% sag. Rebound was 9 clicks in from full open, or roughly 50% LSR damping.

I opened up the air chamber and noticed the fork already has one of those bottomless tokens in. I stuck in the other two for a total of 3...
Now the fork is at 40 psi, 27.5% sag, and it ramps up quite nicely! Prob will need to dial out 2 or 3 clicks on the rebound for the reduced PSI and to get the small chatter compliance I'm looking for. Test ride to come, once the rain stops. 

I like to set the compression damping to non-existent for climbs so the front wheel can follow the ground w/o any of my weight on the bar. On the downs, turn to the middle of the RCT3 setting to get some mid-stroke support. This was how I rode the Fox 34 to pretty good effect.


----------



## Muttonchops (Jul 16, 2004)

Jayem said:


> On the bike the compression adjuster has a pretty big effect, it doesn't turn it into a rigid fork, but it gives enough compression damping to make it resist bobbing if you are pedaling up a hill or something. Where it really shines is in rough chunky terrain where you don't want it blowing through travel. A few clicks of the adjuster keep it from diving and it still feels great, not harsh. It's exactly what low speed compression is supposed to be IMO.


Well...is this where everyone gets confused? I have come to understand that fork manufacturers refer to low speed compression as being the first 1/3 of the forks travel. This will be forces that do not force the fork to travel more than 1/3 of the way thru its travel. Exactly...pedal induced bobbing etc...these get reduced by the compression settings and possibly eliminated if LSC is maximised or the fork is locked out.

when we start talking about rough chunky (high speed?) terrain i want my fork open so that its active as possible and if there is a risk of it blowing through its travel - then i should be playing with the high speed compression...which is the final 1/3 of its travel. If I enter the final 1/3 of my forks travel I want to be able to determine how i am going to use that travel...because that affects my immediate future (health).

When i am riding high speed rough chunky terrain...i picture myself riding in the middle third of the stroke and pushing into my HSC settings. In my perect world..LSC would be irrelevant once i get going on a DH.

cheers.


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Yeah that's not how it's supposed to work. Low speed compression is dampening for low speed events like going off a drop or braking or riding a berm. High speed is stuff like going up a drop (imagine going up a curb at 20mph). If you are riding down hills only using the middle part of your travel your fork is packing down and you have too much rebound dampening.

Most forks don't have high speed compression adjustment. Downhill forks and forks like the fox 36 do but the pike doesn't, at least not via a knob.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

BushPilot said:


> Got a 160mm on the way for my SJ EVO 26.
> 
> Bikepartsexpress / Sage Cycles have them for under $900.


$804 at Tryon Bike.


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> So, found the fork entirely too linear out of the box on my initial test ride. It felt really unstable, but there was pretty much no compression damping. The fork is a 150mm 29er non-adjust travel fork.
> 
> I opened up the air chamber and noticed the fork already has one of those bottomless tokens in. I stuck in the other two for a total of 3...


Honestly I'm glad they made it pretty linear and then provided the bottomless tokens to allow us to tune it. It just gives us more options. I have about 20 hours on the fork right now and am still playing around with it. I've already shaved around 30 seconds off one of the 5 minute trails I ride with this fork. Crazy as that sounds. I'm thinking about putting another token in when I do the 50 hour service. Good to know it already has one in there.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> I like to set the compression damping to non-existent for climbs so the front wheel can follow the ground w/o any of my weight on the bar. On the downs, turn to the middle of the RCT3 setting to get some mid-stroke support. This was how I rode the Fox 34 to pretty good effect.


That's what I'm doing too, working great.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Muttonchops said:


> Well...is this where everyone gets confused? I have come to understand that fork manufacturers refer to low speed compression as being the first 1/3 of the forks travel. This will be forces that do not force the fork to travel more than 1/3 of the way thru its travel. Exactly...pedal induced bobbing etc...these get reduced by the compression settings and possibly eliminated if LSC is maximised or the fork is locked out.
> 
> when we start talking about rough chunky (high speed?) terrain i want my fork open so that its active as possible and if there is a risk of it blowing through its travel - then i should be playing with the high speed compression...which is the final 1/3 of its travel. If I enter the final 1/3 of my forks travel I want to be able to determine how i am going to use that travel...because that affects my immediate future (health).
> 
> ...


No, low speed events are once which compress the shaft at a low-speed. A drop is a relatively low-speed event, because you only drop at 9.8m/s^2, yet hitting 4" bump at 30mph requires the fork to move MUCH faster than that low-speed event. You can't have the same damping circuit doing both events though, because damping increases as a square of velocity, which means the fork would simply hydro-lock and not compress when you hit that 4" bump if all you had was the low-speed compression circuit. High speed damping has to open up, and the faster the fork moves, the more it has to open. So going back to low speed, it might seem that it exists mostly in the beginning stroke, but that's not really true as you experience g-outs, do drops and jumps, and so on. No matter where the fork is in it's travel, it has to be able to do both of these things, such as landing a drop AND absorbing a root during the landing.

What noticed on my avalanche stuff with fairly high-end low speed and high speed circuits was that you needed a certain amount of low-speed compression dialed into the fork/shock for the high speed circuit to work correctly. If you tried to leave it "open", it worked well enough at low speed, but at higher speeds it wasn't allowing that high-speed circuit to open up enough, so it was kind of sending oil to both circuits and not effectively decreasing the high speed damping. Upping the low speed compression damping helped it resist g-outs, diving, pedal better, and most importantly to me it seemed to help the high speed circuit open up much better when the fork reacted to a high-speed event. Sometimes this stuff seemed "overdamped" compared to an old marzocchi fork, but you take the avalanche stuff through crazy south-mountain or goat-camp super-chunk and it just leveled stuff, the faster you went, the better it got. That's what I notice from the pike.

Compared to some of the marzocchi stuff I've had over the years, the older HSCV stuff was kind of "tuned" for moderate speed riding with little chassi control, at low speed it wallowed and moved around a bunch, at moderate speeds it wasn't bad, but try to push it to high speeds and it just gets overwhelmed, spiking, etc. Those dampers were crude and any increased compression (closing off holes) made them feel pretty bad. The RC3 I got much later was also terrible, it had a spring on top of a check-valve, kind of a poor-mans shim-stack type damper, in some ways worse than the older HSCV which at least had crude shims on it. Increasing the compression damping here just made it feel worse...at everything. Newer marzocchi RC3 Evo 2c Type R or whatever they are calling it is actually decent and nearly a carbon copy of some of the avalanche stuff.

It's really not possible to have true adjustable high speed compression, you have to re-arrange the shim-stack. You could theoretically have a system that pre-loads the shim-stack and adjust the preload on it, but that's not the same thing as having different size or more/less shims on there either, not to mention the low speed compression blow-offs and associated springs, piston size, etc. This is usually tuned fairly well from the factory though if it's a decent damper. If it's a proper compression damper, you can increase the low speed compression without ruining the high speed ride, which seems to be what we have here with the pike. It's not like some of the products where putting in compression damping affected both the high and low speed circuits and caused the fork to spike like crazy as you tried to slow it down a bit. That's unfortunately been the "standard" for most mountain bike stuff for a long time, but really it's simply ill-performing dampers from companies too lazy to adapt proven and available technology.

I'm no suspension expert, but going with what I know about damping so far, you'd want even less high-speed compression damping and more low-speed the faster you go in chunkier terrain. Not doing this will result in spiking due to the high speed impacts being too fast for the high-speed damper (not able to open enough for the faster impacts), and the fork will bottom due to the bigger low-speed impacts (rolling off rocks, possibly combined with high speed impacts, landing jumps, etc).


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Muttonchops said:


> Well...is this where everyone gets confused? I have come to understand that fork manufacturers refer to low speed compression as being the first 1/3 of the forks travel. This will be forces that do not force the fork to travel more than 1/3 of the way thru its travel. Exactly...pedal induced bobbing etc...these get reduced by the compression settings and possibly eliminated if LSC is maximised or the fork is locked out.
> 
> when we start talking about rough chunky (high speed?) terrain i want my fork open so that its active as possible and if there is a risk of it blowing through its travel - then i should be playing with the high speed compression...which is the final 1/3 of its travel. If I enter the final 1/3 of my forks travel I want to be able to determine how i am going to use that travel...because that affects my immediate future (health).
> 
> ...


I'm getting the feeling you're confusing position sensitivity to shaft speed sensitivity. 
Think about this: 30mph and hitting washboard...I don't care how smooth those rolls are, the damper shaft speeds will be moving fast. You'll only use 1/3 to 1/2 of your full travel (if your HSC and HSR are set correctly). Now, same 30 mph and you take your bike into a 40ft diameter berm...that damper shaft speed will be moving pretty slow as compared to the washboard. BUT, if your LSC and LSR is set correctly, it's likely you'll be in the last 1/2 or 1/3 of your travel as you pull maybe...1.5 or 2 G's in that turn...?

So, to dissect Jayem's response a bit...
On a drop...say 4ft...and ONLY w/ respect to compression, that would be a fast moving damper shaft speed => HSC. 
On the in-run of a ramp (or you can also think of G-outs here) and only w/ respect to compression, that shaft will be moving pretty slow in comparison to the impulse from landing a drop => LSC.

Now, w/ respect to rebound ONLY on the same two events above...
Chances are, when you roll off the drop, you're rolling off the edge of a flat area, so your fork will only extend from its sag point to full extension. The stored energy from only compressing the spring somewhere between 25 and 35% is relatively low, resulting in low shaft speed...=> LSR.
But, when you load up a bike off the lip of an air, chances are, you're WAY deep in the spring's stroke. The release energy from that spring will be pretty high, making the shaft movement fast...=> HSR.

Edit: actually, what you described sounds more like a description of rebound...


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Those of you who've played around with the bottomless tokens: think they'd work in some of the older Solo Air forks? I've got a Totem Solo Air on my big bike that even with lots of tweaking, I still have a hard time getting it to feel great on small and slow stuff while ALSO feeling great on big and fast stuff. Thinking those, or something like them, would do the trick. Like shimming the air can on HV can rear shocks, yeah? It's my only real complaint with the fork. The bike sees a mix of local trail riding, as well as resort time. The local trails have lots of slow speed trialsy and techy things interspersed with faster bigger hits. 

Let me run lower pressure to get a bit more small bump compliance, yet still be able to handle larger hits, while using the compression circuits to keep it from being divy and wallowy?

Pike content: Ordered up a 26" non-adjust 150mm model... It's going to replace the lowered Lyrik Solo Air on my TRc. Lyrik will go back ont he TransAM it came from, and the aging Revelation Dual Air gets sold to help pay for things!


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

scrublover said:


> Those of you who've played around with the bottomless tokens: think they'd work in some of the older Solo Air forks? I've got a Totem Solo Air on my big bike that even with lots of tweaking, I still have a hard time getting it to feel great on small and slow stuff while ALSO feeling great on big and fast stuff. Thinking those, or something like them, would do the trick. Like shimming the air can on HV can rear shocks, yeah? It's my only real complaint with the fork. The bike sees a mix of local trail riding, as well as resort time. The local trails have lots of slow speed trialsy and techy things interspersed with faster bigger hits.
> 
> Let me run lower pressure to get a bit more small bump compliance, yet still be able to handle larger hits, while using the compression circuits to keep it from being divy and wallowy?
> 
> Pike content: Ordered up a 26" non-adjust 150mm model... It's going to replace the lowered Lyrik Solo Air on my TRc. Lyrik will go back ont he TransAM it came from, and the aging Revelation Dual Air gets sold to help pay for things!


I haven't tried the tokens yet, but I did let a lot of air out of the fork and tried to ride it like that last night. Didn't work great, it was better with more air in it, more sensitive to bumps and such, if that makes sense. I don't think it was absorbing the roots and square impacts quite as well with the pressure let out, I was getting more front end movement too, but I didn't try to adjust the damping settings at all. Usually the problem with air shocks seems to be getting all the travel, I was getting a little too close to bottom on a few jumps last night with more sag. I guess tokens would be good to try, but the fork still felt damn good with the slightly higher pressure I was running (about 70).


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

scrublover said:


> Those of you who've played around with the bottomless tokens: think they'd work in some of the older Solo Air forks? I've got a Totem Solo Air on my big bike that even with lots of tweaking, I still have a hard time getting it to feel great on small and slow stuff while ALSO feeling great on big and fast stuff. Thinking those, or something like them, would do the trick. Like shimming the air can on HV can rear shocks, yeah? It's my only real complaint with the fork. The bike sees a mix of local trail riding, as well as resort time. The local trails have lots of slow speed trialsy and techy things interspersed with faster bigger hits.
> 
> Let me run lower pressure to get a bit more small bump compliance, yet still be able to handle larger hits, while using the compression circuits to keep it from being divy and wallowy?
> !


There's a trick used on the Fox Float forks...just shoot suspension fluid into your air chamber to take up volume. Once you figure out how much, you can replace it w/ something solid. As for Totems and tokens, does your Totem have a threaded piece under your air cap where you can thread on those tokens? If not, you might want to figure out a way to secure them onto the top of your air piston...


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

BorisD said:


> Hoping fellow Pike owners can confirm a suspected problem.
> 
> Got my new Pikes yesterday 26" 150mm, was very pleased - weigh only 80g more than my RCT3 Revs (1801g vs 1727g both with a 195mm steerer). Amazing.
> Very stiff and not as 'divey' as the Revs they replaced.
> ...


This is how my fork is as well. No click on the lockout setting.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Pau11y said:


> There's a trick used on the Fox Float forks...just shoot suspension fluid into your air chamber to take up volume. Once you figure out how much, you can replace it w/ something solid. As for Totems and tokens, does your Totem have a threaded piece under your air cap where you can thread on those tokens? If not, you might want to figure out a way to secure them onto the top of your air piston...


Not that I recall, but if there is, I doubt it would be the same size as what is under the Pike cap anyhow. Will take a look, and play with some oil in there to see how it feels.

Figuring a way to stick something on the underside of the cap doesn't seem as if it would be too hard to figure out.


----------



## Chubb (Jun 27, 2011)

*Pike Dual Position Users*

Has anybody with a Dual Position Air (DPA) Pike ridden it much in the low travel position?

This thread says that the DPA low position (on a Revelation) is intended mainly for climbing and the air spring in that position is too linear to use all the time. Can Bottomless Tokens be installed on the DPA model or are they only included with the Solo Air model? Is it possible to set up the DPA Pike to have good performance in the low position without ruining the performance in full travel mode?

I'm contemplating buying a 29" Pike with DPA and would prefer to use it in 120mm travel mode most of the time, switching to 150mm mode only for the most rugged trail sections.


----------



## brentos (May 19, 2006)

A few notes on my Pike. 140mm 29er, 46 offset.

-I couldn't get full travel out if it at first, even with pressure lowered 15 psi under recommended. It felt awesome, but I just could only get 110mm of travel. Found that there were two volume reducing tokens in it from the factory (as well as two in the box). Removed them and it felt much better, ended up putting one back in to better balance it to the rear suspension on my Scott Genius.

-No sag gradients on the stanchions.

-Smoothest fork I've ever felt.

-It's lighter than claimed 1863 g no axle, 1937 g with axle. And that's with two air reducers in the air chamber. (16 grams each)


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

brentos said:


> A few notes on my Pike. 140mm 29er, 46 offset.
> 
> -I couldn't get full travel out if it at first, even with pressure lowered 15 psi under recommended. It felt awesome, but I just could only get 110mm of travel. Found that there were two volume reducing tokens in it from the factory (as well as two in the box). Removed them and it felt much better, ended up putting one back in to better balance it to the rear suspension on my Scott Genius.


This is good info thanks. I'm experiencing something similar on my rig, new Knolly Endorphin with 150mm 26" Pike. I've slowly kept lowering the pressure but still haven't bottomed it yet. Right now I'm about at 65 psi, and I'm about 215 RTR. At this pressure it's a bit more divey than I like, even with the LSC almost all the way cranked in open mode. I'll pull it apart this weekend and check to see if I have some of those tokens installed, my guess from reading your post is there might be.


----------



## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

Could someone please post A-C numbers for all of the variations on this fork? 

I found the attached thumbnail from another thread but it will not open. Online search only gets a blurry chart that cannot be read.

Considering this fork for my Knolly Endorphin, but cannot decide if I will go with the 26" 150/160mm or 27.5 150mm version. Currently running a Fox 36 Float set to 150mm for 535mm A-C and external cup HS. 

Thanks!


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Bubba, I can't remember but I looked it up long ago before I ordered mine. IIRC, the 26" 150 (which I bought) has a 532mm AtC, versus a 150mm Revelation at 528mm.

Not sure about the others since I wasn't interested in them.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

My 29" 150mm is 558.


----------



## BorisD (Apr 6, 2006)

hillharman said:


> This is how my fork is as well. No click on the lockout setting.


PM sent.

Cheers.


----------



## wreckingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

Muttonchops said:


> I tried everything i know - all ranges of air pressure (high / med / low) , changing damper fluid and playing with my compression settings as described. I ordered the Pike....kinda answers the question as to whether i was succesful.
> 
> re: the Revelation...single big hits were actually fine. It soaked up a surprise 3' nose heavy roll over this weekend when for sure i thought i was going OTB...but when it came to high speed chunder / roots and heavy front braking - it struggled.
> 
> ...


@MuttonChops: I had the EXACT same problem with my Revelation. It is a great fork for regular trail riding, but give it some chop and it seemed to stiffen up horribly. Replaced it with a Pike on my SB-66 and its a new bike. The Pike really softens up the choppy roots and rocks, and takes a big hit nicely.


----------



## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

rscecil007 said:


> Bubba, I can't remember but I looked it up long ago before I ordered mine. IIRC, the 26" 150 (which I bought) has a 532mm AtC, versus a 150mm Revelation at 528mm.
> 
> Not sure about the others since I wasn't interested in them.


Thanks! It looks like the 27.5" 150mm lands at 542mm a-c. Same as the 26" 160mm.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Just a PSA/heads up.
I've been dinking w/ the bottomless tokens... I said before I stuck in 3 of them into the 150mm 29er fork. I can say for certain that the fork won't bottom onto those three (3) tokens. 
Let out all air and pushed until the crown bottomed on the main seal...all good. AND, the progressiveness w/ 3 tokens felt great...w/ just a hair over 50psi pressure, and LSC wide open.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

It's here, and it's sweet already!

Dumped rain most of the day, so no trail time. Should be able to get a ride in tomorrow.










Out of the box, playing around with pressure and damping, smoooooooooth! Ended up popping two tokens in, and dropping pressure a touch - feels good - around the block.

I usually ride with a shock pump anyhow (all my forks/rear shocks are air) but will take the socket wrench along with so playing with the spacers on trail/mid ride will be possible.


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

scrublover said:


> Ended up popping two tokens in, and dropping pressure a touch - feels good - around the block.


Looks good!

You bring up a question with the tokens. Mine feels a bit better with less pressure, but a bit too divey (when full open) and I'd about guarantee I'd bottom it often. A bit more psi corrects those issues, but then it's not as plush. So I was wondering if I ran the lower pressure but with a token or two, if that would help the dive situation? It seems like it might in theory, but I can't say for certain.

Right now in open I've got the LSC about 3 clicks from full hard IIRC.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

rscecil007 said:


> Looks good!
> 
> You bring up a question with the tokens. Mine feels a bit better with less pressure, but a bit too divey (when full open) and I'd about guarantee I'd bottom it often. A bit more psi corrects those issues, but then it's not as plush. So I was wondering if I ran the lower pressure but with a token or two, if that would help the dive situation? It seems like it might in theory, but I can't say for certain.
> 
> Right now in open I've got the LSC about 3 clicks from full hard IIRC.


That's exactly how you want to use them.


----------



## rehammer81 (Jun 18, 2010)

So I have a new Pike waiting to go on my new Firebird build. If you guys don't mind, what are your riding weights and when you added tokens was there already one installed like I have seen mentioned? I'm 155lbs. Then add some weight for gear and some amount of hydration. The lighter the rider the less you would need the fork to ramp up by using the tokens in theory right?

Specialized Epic 29
Intense Tracer 29


----------



## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Yeah thats my understanding, lighter rider needs less progressiveness so less token spacers. Im about 245 ready to ride, and could pretty easily bottom my pike with ~80 psi in it (with an accurate shock pump, the pump that came with my fork is about 30psi low), and that was at 15% sag. My pike did have one token installed from the factory, and I just added another. Going to try it soon at just above 20% sag with 2 spacers and see how it feels.


----------



## 11highlights (Feb 16, 2012)

Anyone have trouble with their forks?

When i originally set my sag at 25% it required about 70psi. Now it is sitting at 30% sag with the same pressure. With 0 psi it rests at about 50% sag and i cant get it to fully extend unless i pump it up to 150psi. even with no weight on the fork (in stand) it sits at 50% sag at 0 psi.

Is there any negative spring i need to know about???

Also the rock shox site says to use 0w30 oil in the lower legs. Not to sure about using multi grade engine oil.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

11highlights said:


> Q: Anyone have trouble with their forks?
> *A: Not yet...but mine are low miles, yet*
> 
> Q: Is there any negative spring i need to know about???
> ...


Answered in-line...


----------



## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

How are you guys conducting the sag measurement? IE, how do you weight the bike to get a proper sag reading?


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Simplemind said:


> How are you guys conducting the sag measurement? IE, how do you weight the bike to get a proper sag reading?


Put on all your gear. Hydration pack if you wear one, with water, full bottles on the bike of not. Helmet, shoes, the works.

Put your bike near a wall or in a hallway. Get on the bike in whatever position you will use most, either attack or seated. Lean lightly against the wall, and attempt to balance. If the travel indicator o-ring / zip tie has a gap to the fork or shock, move them in place. (This would mean you bounced the bike when you got on it, but it's not a big deal.)

Get off carefully and measure or read the sag.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Simplemind said:


> How are you guys conducting the sag measurement? IE, how do you weight the bike to get a proper sag reading?


Fully kitted up, seat position instead of attack, w/ Reverb at full ext....basically, climbing position. Done on flat ground as a trade-off between pitched up and lifting (climbing) and pitched down and brake diving (downhilling). LSC on front and rear wide open. Bounce on the bike to get it to settle in, then move the o-rings down.

For me, I like both ends at ~27% sag, but that's just me.


----------



## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

ColinL said:


> Get off carefully and measure or read the sag.


OK, just like you do with the rear. Always seems like the rear takes more "static weight" than the front, especially seated, so I was wondering if there was a different treatment for the front.


----------



## bcall8 (Mar 26, 2011)

Simplemind said:


> OK, just like you do with the rear. Always seems like the rear takes more "static weight" than the front, especially seated, so I was wondering if there was a different treatment for the front.


Because of this I have never liked to measure sag on my fork. I feel like if I get the sag right in my garage it is way too soft on the trail. I've resorted to trial an error with a shock pump in my pack on the trail. Once I get it feeling good I remember the psi.


----------



## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

anyone have a review of the dual position version to share?
anyone have a weight for the 650b dual position?


----------



## nyrangerfan222 (Jun 22, 2009)

anyone have any tire clearance issues? Im wondering if a 26x2.4 trail king will fit in the 160mm 26" pike


----------



## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

2.4 trail king fits with plenty of clearance


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

Plenty of clearance for even a large volume 2.5


----------



## nyrangerfan222 (Jun 22, 2009)

strader said:


> 2.4 trail king fits with plenty of clearance





BushPilot said:


> Plenty of clearance for even a large volume 2.5


thanks guys. I have the pike with 2.25 ardents now just wasnt sure how much bigger the 2.4 trail kings would be compared to them. Going to be mounting them on flowex wheels. going to order them up now.

strader have any pictures by any chance?


----------



## Verbl Kint (Feb 14, 2013)

I wonder when this baby will ever reach the Far East. Seems North America and EU get theirs first.

Posted via Tapatalk


----------



## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

nyrangerfan222 said:


> anyone have any tire clearance issues? Im wondering if a 26x2.4 trail king will fit in the 160mm 26" pike


Not going to be a problem. Tons of clearance around a 2.35 Hans Dampf.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

I've been tinkering with my Monarch to try to get it to match the feel of the Pike and I can't get it even close. Is it just me or is this driving anyone else a little crazy?


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

scvkurt03 said:


> I've been tinkering with my Monarch to try to get it to match the feel of the Pike and I can't get it even close. Is it just me or is this driving anyone else a little crazy?


Pike feels similar to a CCDBair. My bike now rides like a magic carpet.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Optimus said:


> Pike feels similar to a CCDBair. My bike now rides like a magic carpet.


I was afraid someone would suggest a piggyback shock. I'm riding a RIP 9. No room (or real need) for a piggyback.


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

scvkurt03 said:


> I was afraid someone would suggest a piggyback shock. I'm riding a RIP 9. No room (or real need) for a piggyback.


Need?? Who cares about need? It's want. I want, I want, I want!!!


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Optimus said:


> Need?? Who cares about need? It's want. I want, I want, I want!!!


If there was room, I'd have ordered one 5 minutes ago.


----------



## stuart.cunningham (Mar 29, 2011)

How is the small bump compliance? Im tossing up a Pike or a 55 RC3 Evo.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It's the real deal.


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

Have both and just replaced 55 RC3 with Pike solo 160mm yesterday and went for 22 mile ride that has 4kft climb and 9 mile descend. Not as good as 55 RC3 on suppleness and tracking but good enough. I am running 55psi which is 10psi below my recommended rider weight. It yields 20-25% sag. I am going to run 50psi on next outing. From what I understand factory preinstalls one bottomless token but I havent opened it up to confirm this. Definitely rides higher up in its travel than other forks. Biggest gain I am seeing is 1.2lbs in weight saving and front-end feels so much more nimble. Feels plenty stiff but not as stiff as 55.

FYI, I am running 650B version 160mm Pike on 26" bike since I was looking to raise the front-end height a bit.


----------



## c-dale99 (Jun 23, 2005)

*My 2 cents*

Got a three hour ride on my brothers 140mm pike. Really quick background is that I love coil forks....my favorite is a 160 mm lyrik and I've got a 150 coil revelation, converted. Hate air fork for the stiction and lack of mid support.

My ultimate fork would be the new pike with a coil uturn.

My ride on the pike was so impressive I had to post a review....although I don't want to pay msrp I would love to find one cheaper. I found the small bump unbelievable for an air fork and rockshox was right that this indeed does ride higher in the travel. Big hits where plush of course but my biggest need in a fork is small bump and this was awesome. And of course it was almost 1.5lbs lighter than a coil lyrik. Stiffness was great and all the compression damping worked excellently. Another impressive feature was on e dh the fork maintained its plush small bump as sometime my other forks would stiffen up (damper oil foaming maybe?). But really great on extended dh. Will prob hold onto my lyrik until I find a pike cheaper but I'm excited about the thought of getting one. :thumbsup:

Oh, my biggest complaint was on an extended steep dh, the fork rode noticeably more into the travel....brake dive. I'm sure there was a way to combat that, more psi or spacer but it wasn't a big deal as the majority of the ride was awesome. So overall it rides really really close to a coil and possibly would replace my coil lyrik.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Check Tryon Bike for good prices.


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

...or at Art's Cyclery and use promo code "facebook20" for 20% off


----------



## c-dale99 (Jun 23, 2005)

Thanks for the links....I guess every retailers best price is 20% off retail. Same for both and pretty consistent on ebay as well.


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

I dont see better deal coming anytime soon unless RC model shows up for less $$$ or people starts reporting massive reliability issue. Performance wise nothing beats this fork at its weight and travel spec.


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I have been riding this fork for over a month now and I am extremely satisfied. It's very impressive how consistent the fork is. Riding through a long rock garden there is no noticeable difference towards the end. The fork recovers very well from each hit and stays controlled the entire time.

One big advantage of this fork is the small bump compliance. Compared to the fox 32s I've ridden (talas and float) which are the same weight as this fork, the difference is night and day. Not only out of the box is the small bump compliance better but after a lot of riding its still way better. For example I demoed a brand new bike with a brand new fox float on it and in a weekend of riding the small bump compliance got much worse. This is par for the course in my experience with multiple fox 32s. The fact that this pike keeps impressing me day after day with the small bump performance is just amazing. This is why I really, really like the fork. The performance doesn't degrade.

When I first got the fork it was a very difficult decision. It's very expensive and I couldn't demo it. I thought I was making a huge gamble. Looking back I'm so happy I pulled the trigger.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

SingleTrackHound said:


> ...or at Art's Cyclery and use promo code "facebook20" for 20% off


Thank you!


----------



## trumtrum (Dec 12, 2006)

How is the new Pike 160mm compared to Lyrik RC2DH? 
I am choosing between the two forks, I mostly do trail riding but occasionally I'll take my bike to bike parks using DH tires and like to ride in rough terrain. Next bike will probably be a Covert 26" with 160mm. 

I don't need lock out but being able to lowering a couple of cm is a plus. 
Pike is lightweight but I really dont like 15mm axle... 
All these decisions make my life so hard to live


----------



## intensworks (Nov 9, 2005)

*DUAL POSITION Up to 30mm? up to 20mm? up to 10mm?*

My apologies if this has been brought up in this thread but can a fellow member confirm if the new dual position Pike forks can be set to have dual position at 160 /150 mm. I see some ads with the Pike sold at 160/140 mm so this tells me the 30mm is not the ONLY setting in between. Am I smoking something strong today or is my question legit? Is it a matter or tinkering with internal spacers? Thanks to all.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

So anyone done and oil change yet?

What the hell does bleed mean for the Pike damper?

0w30 for the lowers is nice - cheap and easy to get at most any auto parts or moto store. Actually, same with the 3w for the damper side upper.

This is the first RS fork in along time that I've not broken down and done an oil change to right out of the box. Doesn't feel as if it needs it yet by any stretch, but, curiosity is getting the better of me...

Nice to see some documentation starting to show up finally.

http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/w...hdocs/95-4018-001-000_rev_b_soloairtokens.pdf

Appears as if you can run up to 4 tokens in the 26" 150mm (what i have) though mine only came with two in the box. Likely be a while before they'll be available to buy aftermarket.

Wonder when the next spare parts lists and full service docs for this thing will be available.


----------



## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

scrublover said:


> So anyone done and oil change yet?
> 
> What the hell does bleed mean for the Pike damper?


The closed damper only holds a set amount of oil, so they don't list the specific amount(?). Just fill it up and bleed the air out.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

ncfisherman said:


> The closed damper only holds a set amount of oil, so they don't list the specific amount(?). Just fill it up and bleed the air out.


Gotcha - that makes sense.


----------



## fuenstock (May 14, 2006)

scrublover said:


> So anyone done and oil change yet?
> 
> What the hell does mean for the Pike damper?
> 
> ...


 You most likely have a token in the fork already, Both my 140 29" and 160 26" pikes had 1 token pre installed and 2 in the box for a total of 3 tokens each.

Heres a video of the Pike bleed,,


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

fuenstock said:


> You most likely have a token in the fork already, Both my 140 29" and 160 26" pikes had 1 token pre installed and 2 in the box for a total of 3 tokens each.
> 
> Heres a video of the Pike bleed,,


Nope. Already installed the two tokens mine came with - none were in the fork when I opened it up. Their pdf doc shows (in my model at least) you can have up to four.

Thanks for the link!


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

scrublover said:


> Nope. Already installed the two tokens mine came with - none were in the fork when I opened it up. Their pdf doc shows (in my model at least) you can have up to four.
> 
> Thanks for the link!


How does the ride compare with the Tokens added? Did you put them in so you could run more sag and not bottom out?


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

BushPilot said:


> How does the ride compare with the Tokens added? Did you put them in so you could run more sag and not bottom out?


Yep. The fork wasn't feeling wallowy or too divy, but would use up a lot of travel and/or bottom on small stuff, even with compression cranked up.

The tokens lets me run less pressure and LSC while still not feeling wallowy or divy, and not using up lots of travel or bottoming out little ****.

On the biggest/harshest landing drop (at least that i do on my trail bike) on my local stuff, I'm using all but a couple mm of travel according to the o-ring. Still is soaking up the little trail chatter as well. And I'm riding all the time with the damper in the "open" position - I'm a set it and forget it guy, so once I get it all dialed in for me, I tend to not screw with things.

We have a fun mix of high speed short and steep ups and downs, interspersed with slow speed technical, and lots of slow speed trialsy stuff alternate lines here and there - so far, the fork has been feeling freakn' awesome on all of it after popping the tokens in.

I'd actually like to get myself two more tokens to play with, just to see. As well, if the Pike inner threaded top-cap would fit the Lyrik, I could play with the spacers on that as well - that fork is now on an older/backup/loaner bike.

Anyhow, I suspect the charger damper and volume spacer top-caps will make their way onto all their new forks. Would be sweet if they'd offer a way to retro-fit the stuff to some older forks. Would be sweet in the Totem Solo Air on my big play bike that sees local trail riding AND lift served time.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Update! 

Pike air cap will fit a Lyrik. I put mine in with the two tokens installed - no problem. Measuring the internal height, it appears there is physically space to fit four of the things without mechanical bottom out/issues. Once they have the spare parts out there, that will allow a lot of tweaking of older Lyriks for not much cash! Nice!

The only real difference of the top-caps, other than the internal threading, is the Lyrik one you can remove/swap the entire schreader setup vs. only being able to swap out the valve core on the Pike cap.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

scrublover said:


> Update!
> 
> Pike air cap will fit a Lyrik. I put mine in with the two tokens installed - no problem. Measuring the internal height, it appears there is physically space to fit four of the things without mechanical bottom out/issues. Once they have the spare parts out there, that will allow a lot of tweaking of older Lyriks for not much cash! Nice!
> 
> The only real difference of the top-caps, other than the internal threading, is the Lyrik one you can remove/swap the entire schreader setup vs. only being able to swap out the valve core on the Pike cap.


How heavy are you and what air pressure are you running? Just trying to calibrate myself.


----------



## Ati007 (Jul 3, 2012)

2014 pike dual position 29er fork available in black or only in white?


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

There seems to be a black 160/125 available on the new WFO. Is that available aftermarket?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

scrublover said:


> Yep. The fork wasn't feeling wallowy or too divy, but would use up a lot of travel and/or bottom on small stuff, even with compression cranked up.
> 
> The tokens lets me run less pressure and LSC while still not feeling wallowy or divy, and not using up lots of travel or bottoming out little ****.
> 
> ...


Adding tokens, and lowering the pressure would help the fork ride lower, use more travel on hits, possibly not have enough for the next successive hit in very chunky terrain. It sounds based on your description that you want it to be less progressive and more linear, which means less tokens and higher pressure, vs. more sag and lower pressure.

But it's great that it's tunable and just performs amazing. I keep thinking: "A 4lb fork?". 

All I really want suspension-wise is for this kind of good damping technology that you have in the more "downhill" oriented stuff to be applied to the more XC stuff, rather than the simple and sometimes poorly-working XC systems that have all the fads like levers and and lockouts. Just give me decent damping and tunability and screw the rest.


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Black 36mm 27.5" Lyrik.. wonder what that would cost


----------



## mo6500 (Feb 14, 2011)

Hey guys!
========

Anyone knows if reducing a 160mm pike *29* to 150mm is possible (2014 model)?

If it is possible, do I have to change damper or maybe just deal with the spacers?

Thx, Mo.


----------



## ski1970 (Aug 20, 2007)

Has anyone had issues with the fork making a rattling feel when holding the front brake and rocking it for and aft? It is were the upper stanchions go into the lower legs I think. It is a 160 26" dual position air. PLEASE HELP


----------



## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

ski1970 said:


> Has anyone had issues with the fork making a rattling feel when holding the front brake and rocking it for and aft? It is were the upper stanchions go into the lower legs I think. It is a 160 26" dual position air. PLEASE HELP


Sounds like your headset is loose and needs adjusting. Check that.


----------



## ski1970 (Aug 20, 2007)

No that was checked and also taken apart and re grease and set back up. It is tight and good


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

Hi there,
I am riding Pike2014 on my v1 Banshee Spitfire for a month and very satisfied, but I am planning to move forward to new Spitfire and run 27.5" wheels, so my question is, is it possible to convert 26" Fork to 27.5" ? may be by replacing bottom "legs" ???
Thanks in advice


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

I have the 650B version 160mm Pike. I am pretty sure lower is the only part different among 26, 27.5, and 29. I believe lower is taller by 10mm on 650B version vs. 26" on same travel version. I am currently running 650B version Pike on my 26" frame with 26" wheelset. I see a bit more gap between the top of tire and the bottom of lower arch than other 26" fork setup I have.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

ski1970 said:


> Has anyone had issues with the fork making a rattling feel when holding the front brake and rocking it for and aft? It is were the upper stanchions go into the lower legs I think. It is a 160 26" dual position air. PLEASE HELP


Which brakes, some flavor of the new shitmano? My M820 pads rattles in its caliper. Grab a handful of front brake and move the bike back/forth, and I can feel the rotor shift in the caliper when you pinch the rotor w/ your finger right next to the caliper.


----------



## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

Am I the only one who is losing travel when setting the proper sag? At 25ish% sag my 160mm 26" Pike is sucked down to the 5% used mark with no pressure on the front of the bike. 

Any way to solve this other than putting more pressure in then I want to?

I am 205 lbs, so not a lightweight... If it is happening to me than lighter riders must have the same issue...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ski1970 (Aug 20, 2007)

*Not the brake*

It is not the brake. I Have located a slight movement sound were the stanchion goes into the lower leg and can feel a slight movement as well.



Pau11y said:


> Which brakes, some flavor of the new shitmano? My M820 pads rattles in its caliper. Grab a handful of front brake and move the bike back/forth, and I can feel the rotor shift in the caliper when you pinch the rotor w/ your finger right next to the caliper.


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

SingleTrackHound said:


> I have the 650B version 160mm Pike. I am pretty sure lower is the only part different among 26, 27.5, and 29. I believe lower is taller by 10mm on 650B version vs. 26" on same travel version. I am currently running 650B version Pike on my 26" frame with 26" wheelset. I see a bit more gap between the top of tire and the bottom of lower arch than other 26" fork setup I have.


Thanks, I also think so, but I want to be sure, is any ability to contact sram?


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Okay... so where do I get the tokens? I'm already at 2 in a 150mm 26 and I think one more and I'll have the small bump and High Speed progressiveness I'm keen to have.


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

thefriar said:


> Okay... so where do I get the tokens? I'm already at 2 in a 150mm 26 and I think one more and I'll have the small bump and High Speed progressiveness I'm keen to have.


How much do you weigh? And on what frame if you don't mind sharing...


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Has anybody put a 29" 140mm internals to a 650b pike?
I have seen 650b 140mm pike and it required changing the internals. I am just trying to find out how it was done...


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

rscecil007 said:


> How much do you weigh? And on what frame if you don't mind sharing...


255 geared. 2013 XL Knolly Endorphin.

I'm close. I think one more token gets me the balance and performance I want, as it sits with 2 tokens, it is already better than the 13 Fox CTD its replacing (although Fox is sending me 2014 cart so that may go back on as comparison and possibly get the Fox Enduro/MX 34 tune).


----------



## mtnbiker831 (Sep 19, 2011)

kroe said:


> Am I the only one who is losing travel when setting the proper sag? At 25ish% sag my 160mm 26" Pike is sucked down to the 5% used mark with no pressure on the front of the bike.
> 
> Any way to solve this other than putting more pressure in then I want to?
> 
> ...


Most forks will do this. It's not a big deal and its one of the reasons it feels so good on the top of the stroke. What kind of pressure are you running? I am 195 plus gear and run 70psi and 4 clicks from closed on the lsc.


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

thefriar said:


> 255 geared. 2013 XL Knolly Endorphin.
> 
> I'm close. I think one more token gets me the balance and performance I want, as it sits with 2 tokens, it is already better than the 13 Fox CTD its replacing (although Fox is sending me 2014 cart so that may go back on as comparison and possibly get the Fox Enduro/MX 34 tune).


Cool, thanks. I'm 215 on a L Endo myself. I've not tried messing with the tokens yet, but I did check and mine didn't come with any installed.


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm going to call RS today and see where I can get more tokens. 

Didn't notice one. Two started to make things a bit more noticeably progressive. I think three will give me the small bump, sag, and the ramp for more aggressive lines/chunk.


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

Let us know. I'd like to get another one too.


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

BushPilot said:


> Let us know. I'd like to get another one too.


On the way to my local shop. Have your LBS call and request SRAM to send the tokens. Should be a few days. Going to three and I think I will be there.


----------



## mattrwills (May 13, 2007)

jazzanova said:


> Has anybody put a 29" 140mm internals to a 650b pike?
> I have seen 650b 140mm pike and it required changing the internals. I am just trying to find out how it was done...


i too would like to hear about this. i want to put this fork on my Blur TRC but the A-C of the 26" 150mm is ~532mm - too tall for the TRC. if i could drop this to ~522mm that'd be $$$


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

mattrwills said:


> i too would like to hear about this. i want to put this fork on my Blur TRC but the A-C of the 26" 150mm is ~532mm - too tall for the TRC. if i could drop this to ~522mm that'd be $$$


The 26" 150mm airspring assembly (RS Part#11.4018.026.003) which is the same assembly as a 120mm 29" Pike. The 140mm 29" airspring is the same as the 27.5 160mm Pike (RS Part#11.4018.026.001). BTI-USA doesn't have them in stock yet, but they are all on the website if your curious under "Rock Shox SoloAir Travel Adjustment Air Shafts"

BTI | Suspension Fork Service Parts from Rock Shox (page 2)


----------



## mattrwills (May 13, 2007)

jazzanova said:


> The 26" 150mm airspring assembly (RS Part#11.4018.026.003) which is the same assembly as a 120mm 29" Pike. The 140mm 29" airspring is the same as the 27.5 160mm Pike (RS Part#11.4018.026.001). BTI-USA doesn't have them in stock yet, but they are all on the website if your curious under "Rock Shox SoloAir Travel Adjustment Air Shafts"
> 
> BTI | Suspension Fork Service Parts from Rock Shox (page 2)


thanks. i spoke with a shop who called RS directly. he was told there isn't an airspring available to get 140mm on the 26" version. they did confirm it was in 'development and thought it would be available sometime this winter'...

i hope that is the case although i'm confused on what needs to be 'developed'. seems to me something in the 26"/150mm spring needs to be shortened by 10mm.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

mattrwills said:


> i too would like to hear about this. i want to put this fork on my Blur TRC but the A-C of the 26" 150mm is ~532mm - too tall for the TRC. if i could drop this to ~522mm that'd be $$$


FWIW, I'm running a 150mm Pike 26" on my TRc and it feels sweeeeeeet! Sure, it's a few mm taller than my prior fork(s) but I'm also running more sag - IMO, it works out just fine. Best I can figure out, when on the bike/geared up, I'm riding about 10mm taller up front than their suggestion of 140mm travel. Been a couple weeks now, and it's riding fabulously.

Now, the SC warranty department may have other ideas... However, I'm not at all worried about the frame integrity. I worry more about bashing and dragging the lower link on rocks than the head-tube area by a ginormous margin. 

Also figure their pro guys have used these frames as 4x and DS and DJ type frames (albeit with stock size forks AFAIK) riding them way, way harder, more aggressively, and abusively than anything my 150# skinny as will.

I'd like to drop it down to 140mm as well, if/when a way comes about to do so, but am not too worried about it if not.

Also about eventually swapping it to a 650b setup. New lowers for sure, sounds as if some of the internals as well, but maybe not all. Cost of those and doing the swap myself vs. buying an entirely new fork down the road...?


----------



## hilly (Sep 17, 2013)

Ski1970, its sounds similar to the what i have experienced with my 150 solo airs. If i apply front brake and slightly rock the the bike there is movement between the the stanchions and lower legs. If i then compress the fork let it extended back and then pick the front wheel up the lowers drop around 4mm. Its noticeable when riding too which is a little off putting! They have been back to tf tuned where i bought them, who then sent them back to Fishers (UK distributor) to look at. Just got them back two days ago after Fishers said they were "operating in away they would expect to see" ?? Still the same as they were before now i've got them back on the bike. Thought it may have been bit stiction but have cleaned & lubed the seals & still the same! Is this normal operating, i haven't experienced this with other forks. Anyone able to confirm this is as it should be??


----------



## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

Could someone please check if; 

110-140 mm DUAL POSITION air in BLACK 

will be possible to get, or not? 

searched everything/where, found no answer...


----------



## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

I was under the impression that the dual position forks were only available in white.


----------



## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

All part numbers for all RockShox product is here:

http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/p...lt/files/techdocs/2014_rockshox_spc_rev_a.pdf

If you want to know if you can swap lowers to convert from 26 to 275 or whatever, this will tell you. Not overtly, but you'll have to see what parts are used for each fork.

My 2012 Revelation 26" solo air fork uses all the same internals as the 275 version so I just bought lowers and installed them to convert my fork.

mk


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

trailbildr said:


> All part numbers for all RockShox product is here:
> 
> http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/p...lt/files/techdocs/2014_rockshox_spc_rev_a.pdf
> 
> ...


This is gold. Thanks for posting.


----------



## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

The SRAM service site is FULL of good stuff. It's the first place to go, really...

Service Resources - RockShox | SRAM

mk


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Killer fork. I have a 2014 S-works Enduro with the 160mm. I've played with it a lot and have the tokens and preload set how I like.

For HIGH speed square edge hits, am I the only one who feels this fork has too much high-speed compression? I'm wishing for a bit more low speed comp, and less high speed comp, for some good blow off.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

How fast are you going and through what kind of terrain? At the ski resort I don't think it has too much all, nor through really chunky sharp rocks. The "blow off" is very seemless with this fork, but the air-spring curve makes it resist using travel IMO, not so much the low speed compression.


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

Pau11y said:


> I like to set the compression damping to non-existent for climbs so the front wheel can follow the ground w/o any of my weight on the bar. On the downs, turn to the middle of the RCT3 setting to get some mid-stroke support. This was how I rode the Fox 34 to pretty good effect.


Are you talking about the clicking low speed compression dial here tg the middle, or flipping the blue lever to the middle setting?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

BushPilot said:


> Are you talking about the clicking low speed compression dial here tg the middle, or flipping the blue lever to the middle setting?


I think the LSC (maybe I'm using the wrong term) is in the middle of the blue lever? Anyway, that's backed all the way out. The 3 RCT settings is set to the lightest damping also. Basically, as low of a compression setting as possible so the fork will compress w/ the minimal amount of force. When I go down, I'm referring to flipping the blue lever.

Oh BTW, I set my sag at that lightest comp damping setting. The air pressure is a LOT lower than you'd get from their chart, even w/ 2 tokens in. I went for a ride yesterday and was running a touch above 45psi and I still had an inch of travel I didn't use w/ the lowest comp damping. It was a slower out/back trail w/ more tech. And, I didn't even bother flipping the blue lever to the middle of the 3 RCT setting on the downs.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Jayem said:


> How fast are you going and through what kind of terrain? At the ski resort I don't think it has too much all, nor through really chunky sharp rocks. The "blow off" is very seemless with this fork, but the air-spring curve makes it resist using travel IMO, not so much the low speed compression.


Any normal 4" tall rock at 20mph feels pretty abrupt. I generally would run a bit more pressure than most, in my forks in the past, but 75 psi at 195lbs I don't think is out of line with this fork. 75 psi with no volume spacers(stock one removed), for the most linear feel I can get, while keeping the front end high, I am happy with the slow speed feel and diving in berms, but the high speed valving does feel stiff.

I also have the rebound all the way open, and it's still not "too fast" yet. Makes me wonder if my fork was assembled with a heavier weight oil or something.


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

Gotcha. Thanks! I'm running a just little over 50 psi with two tokens. It is plush but a little divey under hard braking. Although I have not totally bottomed the fork yet even with hard landings. I have had the lsc knob backed all the way out too, so starting to experiment with bumping it up a little and well as flipping the lever to the mid setting like you've been doing. I notice turning the knob and also maybe flipping the lever affect the rebound speed.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Removed my lowers to inspect after about 5 rides. I got 3 drips out of one lower, and and MAYBE a teaspoon full out of the other. I know the spec oil volume is small, but this was REALLY dry.

Some PTFE seal grease pushed into foam ring, and filling the seals, and some 7wt shock oil(lighter for cold season) in the lowers, and the fork is AMAZINGLY more compliant. The slow rebound I was noting two posts up, is substantially faster. I thought it was buttery before it is REALLY buttery now!

I also played with the bare cartridge, and I am now confident that I was wrong two posts up, and there is not too much high speed compression. I could blast on that thing with the adjusters full open with very little restriction.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

thuren said:


> Removed my lowers to inspect after about 5 rides. I got 3 drips out of one lower, and and MAYBE a teaspoon full out of the other. I know the spec oil volume is small, but this was REALLY dry.
> 
> Some PTFE seal grease pushed into foam ring, and filling the seals, and some 7wt shock oil(lighter for cold season) in the lowers, and the fork is AMAZINGLY more compliant. The slow rebound I was noting two posts up, is substantially faster. I thought it was buttery before it is REALLY buttery now!
> 
> I also played with the bare cartridge, and I am not confident that I was wrong two posts up, and there is not too much high speed compression. I could blast on that thing with the adjusters full open with very little restriction.


Is there a good set of rebuild instructions out yet?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I'm cracking it open in a few hrs or service the oil bath with the recommended 0w30 oil.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

hillharman said:


> Is there a good set of rebuild instructions out yet?


I have not seen full rebuild instructions, but this is for servicing the lowers.

http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/m...pike_lower_leg_replacement_service_manual.pdf


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Jayem said:


> I'm cracking it open in a few hrs or service the oil bath with the recommended 0w30 oil.


What oil are you guys using? Thanks for the service instruction link.


----------



## Muttonchops (Jul 16, 2004)

Such a great thread - loving my new Pike 150mm on the Knolly Endo. It was reading all the initial reviews / comments on this thread that put me over the edge. Thanks guys.

After throwing the fork on the bike - i quickly set the sag and didnt touch a single setting - felt awesome right away.

Stoked.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

hillharman said:


> What oil are you guys using? Thanks for the service instruction link.


0w30, Mobile, that's what is specified. About the right amount came out of the left leg. Nothing came out of the right. 5ml is almost nothing... Changing this oil was easy though, no surprises.


----------



## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Great thread. Interestingly enough my 140mm pike solo came with 2 tokens installed and two more in the bag. With 2 installed I had about 70psi and I wasn't using all of the travel. I just removed one and bumped up the pressure to 90 (sag set at exactly 20%). Unfortunately I won't be able to ride until at least next wednesday to see if it made any difference. I might pull the lowers now to see what kind of oil volume is in mine in the mean time. FWIW I'm about 190lbs without gear.


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

My experience has been with two tokens installed, vs no token, and same 20% sag I am using more travel and fork feels much more supple. At 155lbs body weight, I am running 47lbs psi with two tokens and 55psi with no tokens. I wish there was more tokens that came in the box with fork.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

I am finding that pressures and settings, from rider to rider, vary a LOT with this fork. Weight plays a part naturally, but I'm starting to think that riding style plays a bigger part with tuning this fork, as the fork is so smooth, you can feel the changes more than normal.

I'm 190-200lbs geared up(depending on Camelback or not).

I had one token in stock, and with 65psi I felt like the fork was too mushy, even with the low speed all the way in. Rebound was also too slow for me also, with the knob full open. Use of travel was great on big hits.

I now am at 76psi with no tokens, and I am WAY happier. Faster rebound, low speed compression all the way in, plus the extra pressure, now staying high in the supple part of the stroke. Using full travel, and not diving in corners.


----------



## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

thuren said:


> I am finding that pressures and settings, from rider to rider, vary a LOT with this fork. Weight plays a part naturally, but I'm starting to think that riding style plays a bigger part with tuning this fork, as the fork is so smooth, you can feel the changes more than normal.
> 
> I'm 190-200lbs geared up(depending on Camelback or not).
> 
> ...


How is it for the high speed hits? Still ruff or did adding oil smooth out those high speed hits? You guys have me thinking of leaving coil for the first time since.........ever! How is the tracking? Wheel glued to the ground at high speeds or does it skip around a bit?


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Swissam said:


> How is it for the high speed hits? Still ruff or did adding oil smooth out those high speed hits? You guys have me thinking of leaving coil for the first time since.........ever! How is the tracking? Wheel glued to the ground at high speeds or does it skip around a bit?


For me, the high speed comp is excellent. I had a 2013 and 2014 Fox 34 before this and they would both skip around and feel harsh or wallowy as I toyed with settings. Pretty much right out of the box the Pike was insanely controlled, and I find myself plowing through sections that made me nervous before. I can actually correct my lines through really rough stuff rather than worrying about being super careful to pick the smoothest one at the top of a chunky section. So. Much. Fun.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Swissam said:


> How is it for the high speed hits? Still ruff or did adding oil smooth out those high speed hits? You guys have me thinking of leaving coil for the first time since.........ever! How is the tracking? Wheel glued to the ground at high speeds or does it skip around a bit?


It's the most comparable fork to a coil I have tried. My problem with air forks has been never using full travel, as I like lots of pressure to keep the front end high, and rebound fast, like a coil. At that pressure, it would be RARE I would get full travel with other forks.

I would always do a test with my fork, from my DH days. I would roll about 5mph, and with my weight full force, ALL the strength I had, try my hardest to bottom the fork. If it bottomed easy, I would add compression. Not use full travel, remove compression.

My last few Fox forks, when set up riding and handling like I wanted, I would always come up about an inch short doing this test, as the air pressure ramped up too much.

This Pike is the first fork I've owned, that when I have the pressure "right" for me, that I can use 90%-100% of the travel easily, doing this test.....

EDIT: I am SUPER picky regarding the way suspension feels, on TRUE "high shaft speed" hits. At first my Pike was a bit sticky masking bad high-speed compression performance. Once I dropped the lowers, greased and lubed, all good super fast acting on the high speed.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

thuren said:


> It's the most comparable fork to a coil I have tried. My problem with air forks has been never using full travel, as I like lots of pressure to keep the front end high, and rebound fast, like a coil. At that pressure, it would be RARE I would get full travel with other forks.
> 
> I would always do a test with my fork, from my DH days. I would roll about 5mph, and with my weight full force, ALL the strength I had, try my hardest to bottom the fork. If it bottomed easy, I would add compression. Not use full travel, remove compression.
> 
> ...


I've also noticed a bit of a break in period on my Pike. It started out still plusher than my 2013 Fox 34, but has gotten even better since then.


----------



## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

thuren said:


> EDIT: I am SUPER picky regarding the way suspension feels, on TRUE "high shaft speed" hits. At first my Pike was a bit sticky masking bad high-speed compression performance. Once I dropped the lowers, greased and lubed, all good super fast acting on the high speed.


Thanks for the post. You have me thinking that I need to open up the shock and check the oil level, and do essentially what you did. Haven't opened up a fork before, so I'm a bit nervous about it, but it can't be that bad. Do you need any special tools? And when you say "greased", what did you grease?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

White Bear said:


> Thanks for the post. You have me thinking that I need to open up the shock and check the oil level, and do essentially what you did. Haven't opened up a fork before, so I'm a bit nervous about it, but it can't be that bad. Do you need any special tools? And when you say "greased", what did you grease?


Rubber mallet. For ages RS has used damping/dummy shafts that press into the lowers, so you need a rubber mallet to knock them up into the fork (with the bike turned upside down. Then simply turn it upside down and see what comes out. Add the required oil to both sides, reinstall foot-nuts and adjuster knob, good to go. Since it's not an "open bath damper", you don't have to worry about a huge mess of oil.


----------



## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Rubber mallet. Then simply turn it upside down and see what comes out. Add the required oil to both sides, reinstall foot-nuts and adjuster knob, good to go. Since it's not an "open bath damper", you don't have to worry about a huge mess of oil.


OMG, gotta do a YouTube video of me whacking my $1100 fork and watching parts fall out the bottom! Not sure the huevos are that big!


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

White Bear said:


> OMG, gotta do a YouTube video of me whacking my $1100 fork and watching parts fall out the bottom! Not sure the huevos are that big!


This is normal procedure to drop the lowers on pretty much any modern fork.

So, get a friend to help who has done this before, or resign yourself to paying someone else to do it.


----------



## tene (Jun 11, 2009)

SRAM's youtube channel have lots of useful videos: SRAMtech - YouTube


----------



## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

So does the pike and monarch rc3 come with remote? I don't belive they do but I could be wrong. At first I thought who needs remote control for a shock or fork? (prejudice stemming from much earlier carnations) However out on a very rough trail today (a more open setting) were a few rock lips, small jumps and what have you when I realized how much more fun and more air I could have if I had one switch to control both fork and shock, being able to flip up the compression on the fly getting more pop off a jump then flip it back to open and how that could make the DH that much more fun. I had always looked at the remote suspension as more of a climbing feature until today. Or am I wrong and remotes suck?


----------



## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

Today I noticed that my fork would make a sound as though it was topping out when the fork traveled from compressed to fully extended. I've been riding the 29'er Solo 140 for a couple of months now and this is the first time noticing this sound. Any concerns?


----------



## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

trailbildr said:


> All part numbers for all RockShox product is here:
> 
> http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/p...lt/files/techdocs/2014_rockshox_spc_rev_a.pdf
> 
> ...


So just change the lowers, and voila, you got a 27.5 Revelation? That might be a great way to get into 650b.


----------



## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

Today I reached for my rebound knob and to my surprise, it was gone??? Will this be an easy LBS item to purchase?


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

bassn said:


> Today I reached for my rebound knob and to my surprise, it was gone??? Will this be an easy LBS item to purchase?


Not exactly an unusual occurrence with Rockshox forks. Can be a good idea to set your rebound and then remove the knob and keep it in a safe place, i.e. in your camelbak (if you use one).
Your lbs should be able to order one in for you.


----------



## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

bassn said:


> Today I noticed that my fork would make a sound as though it was topping out when the fork traveled from compressed to fully extended. I've been riding the 29'er Solo 140 for a couple of months now and this is the first time noticing this sound. Any concerns?


Anyone else experiencing such a sound/feel? I'm not the most experienced when it comes to suspension issues, but it does feel abnormal. Today I will check the fluid levels on the lowers to see if that might be the culprit. It's just weird that it happened all of a sudden???


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Some noise is not abnormal when running excessive rebound. Supposedly the charger can handle lots of rebound damping, but I'd still question your setting (how many clicks?). Otherwise, it could mean air in the damping cartridge, but you'd likely notice this as a lack of damping. The noise could be air just escaping/entering the damping leg, which is hollow obviously.


----------



## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Some noise is not abnormal when running excessive rebound. Supposedly the charger can handle lots of rebound damping, but I'd still question your setting (how many clicks?). Otherwise, it could mean air in the damping cartridge, but you'd likely notice this as a lack of damping. The noise could be air just escaping/entering the damping leg, which is hollow obviously.


Thanks for replying. I'm running my rebound in the middle of the setting. Since my rebound knob fell, I couldn't tell you how many clicks. It's more of a slight thunk sound.


----------



## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

What do you guys think about a separate thread for "PREFERRED PIKE SETTINGS". I could see something like the following would be helpful:
1) Rider weight
2) Fork length
3) # of tokens
4) LSC (clicks)
5) measured SAG
6) PSI
7) maybe type of use

Other ideas?


----------



## mtnbiker831 (Sep 19, 2011)

Wheel size. I believe all 3 have different air chamber volumes.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

White Bear said:


> What do you guys think about a separate thread for "PREFERRED PIKE SETTINGS". I could see something like the following would be helpful:
> 1) Rider weight
> 2) Fork length
> 3) # of tokens
> ...


Great idea in theory... but useless in reality. Type of trails ridden, rider skill, rider aggressiveness, rider _preferences_ and so on have a huge impact.

Actually the biggest issue is that some people have no idea how to properly adjust their fork and shouldn't be used as a reference. They might be happy or at least content with the way it performs, but their settings won't help someone else get their fork tuned right.


----------



## G-AIR (Jan 23, 2004)

What are the best tuning options do increase small bump sensitivity without bottoming. 
1) lower PSI, add tokens
2) lower PSI, less rebound dampening (quicker rebound)
3) lower PSI, increase LSC
4) other suggestions

Currently running 0-2 clicks of LSC
8-10 clicks in from full out of rebound
1 token
22.65% sag
Any thoughts are appreciated.


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

A combination of all of the above for me. I ended up adding 2 tokens, running about 25% sag ( a bit over 50 psi) and a couple clicks of lsc. I don't often use all the travel and it's plush.


----------



## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

G-AIR said:


> 2) lower PSI, less rebound dampening (quicker rebound)
> 3) lower PSI, increase LSC


Combo of the above. My recommended air pressure is 75psi but after playing with the forks, I ended up running 60psi (gives me 25% sag) and no tockens + 3 clicks of LSC and slighlty quicker rebound..... SUPER happy with the forks. Actually, blown away by these forks.


----------



## thomasbf (Nov 22, 2011)

*150 solo, 160 solo or 160 dual?*

Hi MTBR

Here's my first and quite heavy post on the forum - hope you can help me :thumbsup:

I recently bought a used *black* 2012 Yeti SB-66 alloy with the standard 150mm Fox Float 32 without kashima. So stoked about the bike in general but the fork seems a little flimsy during high speed and rough stuff, and not that sensitive when it comes to small bumps and plushness overall.

Therefore I'm considering an upgrade to the RS PIKE.

But I'm in doubt on which model to choose.

I'm living in flat Denmark and most of my riding is in local forests with a lot of short climbs and descents. My riding style is aggressive cross country moving into all mountain. I like to do drops (currently up to 4 ft) and I'm working on improving my airtime. Occasionally I'll bring the bike to the Alps and serious mountains abroad, but I'll mostly use the bike in more modest topography.

The obvious choice would be the 150mm solo black version, because it's the "natural" travel length with which my bike was "born". With my current fork I sometimes miss a little extra travel ... whether that's due to the fact that my current fork isn't using all of it's travel or that it's too harsh - I cannot tell. (I'm 88kg in full gear and the fork is set to 75psi, sag is around 30%))

The second option would be the 160mm solo version also in black. I do not mind a slack geometry on the straights and descents, but I'm concerned that the bike would become too cumbersome while climbing.

The third option and probably the one I think is the most interesting, is the Dual Position 160mm. Being able to lower the fork 30mm while climbing, sounds very appealing to me, but it has a significant drawback: the fork only comes in white!! which will not match my bike!!

Do you guys know if the 160mm Dual Position will be available in black in the foreseeable future? And if not; I'll definitely consider doing a custom paint job on a white fork if the dual position turns out to be the right choice for me and my riding style.

Please forgive me for all my questions but which fork do you guys think I should go for considering my style of riding and aesthetic preferences?


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

G-AIR said:


> What are the best tuning options do increase small bump sensitivity without bottoming.
> 1) lower PSI, add tokens
> 2) lower PSI, less rebound dampening (quicker rebound)
> 3) lower PSI, increase LSC
> ...


So you bought one huh? 

Forgot to add:

me: about 215 RTR weight, fork is on a Knolly Endorphin
70psi, puts me right at 25% sag, maybe 28%, can't quite remember
rebound is about in the middle, maybe a few clicks to the fast side
LSC is about 6 clicks out from closed
two tokens

It's plush as can be, and I typically have just about 1/2" of travel left after riding my normal trail with a few small jumps and drops. I love this fork.


----------



## G-AIR (Jan 23, 2004)

First I admitted I have a problem. Then I bought the fork.

It's been great so far, just trying to get it completely dialed. It's a great fork for the Endo. The Revelation wasn't bad and matched very well with the CTD. The Pike just does everything a bit better. The Pike is actually lighter than the revelation I had as well.



rscecil007 said:


> So you bought one huh?
> 
> Forgot to add:
> 
> ...


----------



## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

G-AIR said:


> First I admitted I have a problem. Then I bought the fork.
> 
> It's been great so far, just trying to get it completely dialed. It's a great fork for the Endo. The Revelation wasn't bad and matched very well with the CTD. The Pike just does everything a bit better. The Pike is actually lighter than the revelation I had as well.


Very, very nice. I gotta admit, a Warden with a Pike and a XX1 setup is sounding more and more appealing. Seems like it is butter right out of the box. PG has 2 29er versions and they are sweet. Game changing fork for sure. How are they for stiffness? Lyrik worthy or close?


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

tiSS'er said:


> Lyrik worthy or close?


Yes. Have spent significant time on Revelation and Lyrik forks in the past, swapping out on the same frames, using the same wheel.

Stiffer than my 20mm axle tapered Revelation - noticably so. Feels no more or less stiff than the straight steerer tubed Lyrik to me. Don't know how it would feel compared to a tapered Lyrik though.

The 15mm setup is a non-issue on this fork, IMO, unless you also have to spring for new wheel vs. having a hub that can be swapped to 15mm from whatever you've already.

I don't baby my bikes, but am only about 170-175# RTR, so YMMV. Larger mammals may notice more noodliness in the fork than myself.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

thomasbf said:


> Hi MTBR
> 
> Here's my first and quite heavy post on the forum - hope you can help me :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Find out what the recommended A to C on the fork for the frame. A Fox 150mm may not have the A to C as the Pike. That said, I think they are coming in pretty close to the same A to C.

I've played around with enough forks and frames to have come to the conclusion that going with what is recommended by the frame designer is best.

A 150mm fork will still climb OK. A 160mm on a bike made for a 150mm not so much. While Dual Position forks function very well with climbing steeps, I find them more trouble than they are worth. Especially with shorter steeper techy climbs. They are also problematic when I forget to change the travel back to full mode and head back down hill.

A longer travel fork does not automatically make the bike perform better on downhills. That is a huge misconception.

The Pike... Amazing fork.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Miker J said:


> Find out what the recommended A to C on the fork for the frame. A Fox 150mm may not have the A to C as the Pike. That said, I think they are coming in pretty close to the same A to C.
> 
> I've played around with enough forks and frames to have come to the conclusion that going with what is recommended by the frame designer is best.
> 
> ...


Ok, a 150mm fork vs. 160, no, not much difference, in fact, might as well go with the more travel. 10mm isn't going to make much of a difference in climbing, might as well have the extra travel. The pike is also shorter axle-to-crown than the fox 150mm, so one more reason to go with 160.

In the more general sense:

Screw the recommended axle to crown, if we're talking about 150 vs 160 and it came with a 150, it's only 10mm. Chances are they didn't design it with the thought that there'll only be that one 150mm fork forever. If we were talking about 20 or more mm different than stock, then yes, we'd need to be more careful and think it through/possibly not do it.

Yes, you are correct that more travel doesn't always perform better downhill, I've been on enough quality dampers to know, but on the other hand, slightly slacker does handle downhill better, and we're talking about a pike, not a 170mm Jr T or something that would be trying to snap your wrists off.

How much time do you have with the new dual-position Pike? I'll admit I have zero time with it and that I'm skeptical of air-spring travel adjustments, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. I used ETA for climbs for something like 6 years and it worked great every time, so it's not automatically bad, depends on how they designed it.


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

From Yeti's website:

Q: What travel fork is the SB66 designed to use?
A: The SB66 is designed to run a 150mm or 160mm travel fork. Running a 160mm travel fork gives the bike a slacker head angle and a higher bottom bracket.


Agree that dual position is more trouble than it's worth -- If like me you want consistent, set and forget it geometry. Dropping the fork lowers the BB which has poor consequences on technical climbs (pedal strike for one). 

The Pike has a slightly taller axle to crown than the fox 34 (or 32) for the same amount of travel like 528 vs. 532mm A2C for 150mm travel. Not significant. I'm sure you would be quite happy with the 150mm Pike.

I went with the Pike 160mm on my SJ Evo for maximum fun and am very happy I did. I run a bit more sag and plushness, on the 160 than I did with the stock 150mm fork, so not a big difference for me in the overall geometry. I don't notice a penalty climbing. A2C on the 160mm Pike is 542mm. With the included volume reducing tokens (solo air only I believe) and other adjustments you can easily tune the sag, plushness and bottom resistance to suit your needs. A 10 or 12mm difference in A2C height is not really a big deal, especially if you account for increased sag. It will give you a little more plushness and travel to work with on the hits and tech dh though.

You might check the Yeti forum and see what people say about 160mm forks on the sb-66. I'd do it, but it's your bike. I remember plenty of people running 160mm forks on the old 575's with good results. Some people have said the sb-66 feels too slack with 160mm, but others love it. This was pre-pike though. Depends what you want to emphasize, the bike can go either way.


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Ok, a 150mm fork vs. 160, no, not much difference, in fact, might as well go with the more travel. 10mm isn't going to make much of a difference in climbing, might as well have the extra travel. The pike is also shorter axle-to-crown than the fox 150mm, so one more reason to go with 160


The Fox 34 actually has shorter A2C than the Pike unless I am mistaken:

Fox 34 (26) @ 150mm A2C is 528mm and 160mm is 538mm

Pike (26) @150mm A2C is 532mm and 160mm is 542mm


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

tiSS'er said:


> Very, very nice. I gotta admit, a Warden with a Pike and a XX1 setup is sounding more and more appealing. Seems like it is butter right out of the box. PG has 2 29er versions and they are sweet. Game changing fork for sure. How are they for stiffness? Lyrik worthy or close?


I would also says it's close or just as stiff as my old Lyrik. It is definitely stiffer and lighter than the 150 Rev I used for a bit that had a straight steer tube and 20mm axle.

You know, just about every time you say something looks appealing, you eventually end up with whatever it is.


----------



## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

rscecil007 said:


> I would also says it's close or just as stiff as my old Lyrik. It is definitely stiffer and lighter than the 150 Rev I used for a bit that had a straight steer tube and 20mm axle.
> 
> You know, just about every time you say something looks appealing, you eventually end up with whatever it is.


You catch on quickly  JK, my stable right now is just so good. I would like to drop some weight on the Endo though. At the same time, a Pike 150 on the Endo sounds so good, adding a bit of versatility to it for our long winter tech rides where the Chili might feel a bit beastly to ride all day. A Warden with a Pike 160 would be a killer one bike solution.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

BushPilot said:


> The Fox 34 actually has shorter A2C than the Pike unless I am mistaken:
> 
> Fox 34 (26) @ 150mm A2C is 528mm and 160mm is 538mm
> 
> Pike (26) @150mm A2C is 532mm and 160mm is 542mm












Fox's specs:



> 34 mm Forks
> 
> 34 mm Forks Axle-to-crown Heights (±5 mm)
> 130 mm
> ...


I was basing it on the 150mm 29er forks, where the fox is taller for a given amount of travel. I have a 160mm version, if you add 10mm to the Fox 29er 34 150, you'd get 573, my pike is 571. Evidently it doesn't apply across the board and only for certain sizes.

So in reality they are within +- 4mm or so on both sides actually, still, 10mm different travel is almost nothing, slight variances in sag and other factors would be more significant, so if debating what fork to go with on a bike that takes a 150mm fork, it's going to be negligible to go with a 160mm. Now if your rear wheel travel is 140mm or less, it might not be a great idea.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

I'm running a 150 on my RIP 9 and it measures in at 560. My Fox 34 (140) was 554. I removed a 5mm spacer from under my stem when I switched and bam! - 10mm more travel. It climbs great and descends even better.


----------



## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

Does anyone else find it odd that one side of the lowers takes 15ml of oil and the other 5? if the lower leg oil is there purely for lubrication seems like they should be the same no? As far as I can tell every other fork takes the same amount in both legs.. Possible typo by Sram?


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Ok, a 150mm fork vs. 160, no, not much difference, in fact, might as well go with the more travel. 10mm isn't going to make much of a difference in climbing, might as well have the extra travel. The pike is also shorter axle-to-crown than the fox 150mm, so one more reason to go with 160.
> 
> In the more general sense:
> 
> ...


No time on the DP Pike. Enough on the Revelation DP. It worked very well, great even. Its just that I never found it performance enhancing enough to justify the fiddling on the fly. Too many times I forgot to turn to darn thing off. You know, when you are about to pass out after a tough climb, then the trail heads straight back down!?!

Rode a Zoke Z1 for many years with the ETA and used it all the time, but those were different trails. So, I guess deciding on whether or not to get a DP fork, may largely be determined by your trails.

Travel difference. You are right that a frame may not be designed precisely around an exact A to C fork. But, say the frame designer built it around a 150mm for with a relative short A to C. Then, you go and put a 160mm fork with relatively long A to C compared to other brand forks. It could result in unfavorable handling characteristics that is felt by some.

Yes, a longer travel fork will slacken the HTA, but it will also raise the BB. I don't like what either of these do bike's ability to carve tight turns.

This might be splitting hairs. But, if we are debating over "only 10mm" why not just stick with what the designer recommends? Not like that extra 10mm will likely add that much benefit?

Personally, I've done this quite a few times with different frames and forks. Almost every time I bumped up the fork travel beyond recommended I disliked it. Unfortunately I'm also one of those riders who if you changed a 1/8" spacer under my stem, it would throw me off.

I'll say it again, the Pike is a great fork. A person will be happy with either travel.


----------



## thomasbf (Nov 22, 2011)

*150 solo, 160 solo or 160 dual?*

Thanx a lot for all of your input!!

I guess my anxiety of not having enough travel may originate from the lack of plushness and the fact that my 32 is only using 2/3 to 3/4 of its travel.
Sounds like the Pike has plenty of plush and is more willing to 'go deep' when pushed hard. 

Thanx for your thoughts on A-C aspects; my 32 is 525mm and the Pike 160 is 542. I think that those 17mm will be noticeable. The guys at Flow Magazine came to the same conclusion; 160mm is too slack, too tall and too fluffy/floppy through the corners - Yeti SB66 Carbon long term test - YouTube

If I would go for the DP, I would have a lot of fiddling going on; most of the trails I ride are quite short, so after each climb I would have to perform at least 3-5 adjustments before/while going down the other side: gear change, seat post adjust, fork height adjust, compression adjust front and rear &#8230; sounds fun?!! :skep:
Good point about steep, techy climbs littered with roots and the fact that a fork adjusted to 130 means low BB clearance and the risk of pedal strikes.

I think I'll go with 150 solo air :thumbsup:

Additional question:

Would it be worth spending the extra on a custom setup?

This dealer will tune the fork to my weight, riding style and terrain:
RockShox Forks - TF Tuned Shox USD 1.117,-

The other option is to go with the a big internet dealer, default settings and customizing it myself:
Rock Shox Pike RCT3 Solo Air 150 15QR Black 26'' - Forks 15 mm axle - PureBike - Parts and accessories mountain biking, road bike, BMX USD 921,-

What would you choose?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I'm not sure what TFT is selling there. There's no "spring" to put in it. The bushings are fine from the factory. It sounds like BS to me. What would possibly be "worth it" would be custom revalving of the high speed compression and rebound shims and possibly using a higher flow piston on each. I don't think they are doing anything like that.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Jayem said:


> I'm not sure what TFT is selling there. There's no "spring" to put in it. The bushings are fine from the factory. It sounds like BS to me. What would possibly be "worth it" would be custom revalving of the high speed compression and rebound shims and possibly using a higher flow piston on each. I don't think they are doing anything like that.


I'll tell ya what I'd like to see is the adjusto LSC more opened, and the "hardwired" HSC more closed. Rebound seems okay to me, but keep in mind I'm on a wagon-wheel bike 

Jayem, do you have or know where I can find the OE shim stacking for the Pike, in all wheel and travel sizes? I think I'd like to tweak mine a bit. I did that for my Monarch RC3+, and it's a way better riding shock now.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nope, I've seen a few tech specs/oil volumes/diagrams on this site and RSs, but nothing much.

I'd actually like to see the opposite, HSC a little less, LSC is fine. I think with the HSC closed off or likely under a heavy shim stack, it's resistant to opening. The only exception to this being super chunky terrain with lots of sharp bumps, I thought it did exceptionally well here.


----------



## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

What do you think of my setup? 

I'm about 210 lbs RTR my pike 140 is set at 100psi with one token. Rebound is right in the middle and low speed compression is 3 clicks in. I like the way the fork feels but I wonder if I would benefit from an extra token or two and lowering the pressure? I mostly ride fast rocky terrain with no drops bigger 2' or so. I generally like a more stiff feeling suspension. 

Also, does anyone feel like there's 1/8" (or less) of play at the very beginning of travel? It almost feels as if my headset is loose. Any idea what would cause this?


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

Streetdoctor said:


> Also, does anyone feel like there's 1/8" (or less) of play at the very beginning of travel? It almost feels as if my headset is loose. Any idea what would cause this?


You have bad bushings. Same thing happened to me, mine would actually make a knocking sound. RS is aware of the issue...they replaced my lowers, didn't work...RS told my LBS why that didn't work, but can't recall right now. RS shipped me out a completely new fork two days ago...should have it today. Sucks about the bad bushing, but so far RS willingness to correct the problem, my LBS's CS, and how good the fork feels has won me over...hopefully the new fork's bushings are solid! 
I would contact your local bike shop ASAP....ask for a new fork...replacing lowers did not work for me and took 4 weeks to get back from RS.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

My bushings are loose too, slightly knocking sound coming from mine as well. Def not the headset either. Hoping I can deal with it for a few more weeks of rides before I start dealing with the warranty aspect.


----------



## megrpirate (Nov 10, 2012)

I just got a new pike and Im feeling the same knocking feeling. Really bummed, after all the positive reviews and straight away it goes back to warranty.

Sram better start checking the quality control


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

I do notice the slop all you guys are referring to when I grab the front brake and rock the bike back and forth but I dont notice it when I am riding. I am starting to think RS maybe have intentionally made it that way so fork slides up/down plusher but may have slightly over done it.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

SingleTrackHound said:


> I do notice the slop all you guys are referring to when I grab the front brake and rock the bike back and forth but I dont notice it when I am riding. I am starting to think RS maybe have intentionally made it that way so fork slides up/down plusher but may have slightly over done it.


Mine is/was the same way...loved the way it felt on the trail, but when stationary I could hear the knocking. Told my bike shop, they specifically asked RS if this was normal/intended. RS said "NO" and sent me a new fork ASAP. Suspension Experts also noted this is not intended/normal. Obviously this is second hand info being relaying thru the LBS to RS and back to me...guess I'll find out real soon.

rscecil007, I would contact your shop now, get the issue documented with RS on their system, push for a new fork, and at a bare minimum new lowers. Most likely you'll be able to ride your current one until the new one arrives.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers,


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

Keeps us posted. 

Is there anyone who had the same sloppy bushing on Pike that got warrantied and fixed/replaced without the sloppyness? It would suck to send the fork out to repair and get it back in same exact condition.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Can someone make a video of this knocking?


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

Will do, yeah it happened to me. Sent mine into RS, 4 weeks later get it back with new lowers...started knocking again after 2 hours of riding. Have to give my LBS credit, they called/emailed RS, asked the questions and will have a new fork within 10 days of them taking action.

Have fingures crossed, love the forks overall performance, hope the issue will be resolve.

Cheers,


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

My case I dont hear knock. Just feel sloppy play when I rock the bike back and forth with front brake on. Fork feels stiff and stout when riding.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

SingleTrackHound said:


> My case I dont hear knock. Just feel sloppy play when I rock the bike back and forth with front brake on. Fork feels stiff and stout when riding.


Some manufactures, i.e. BOS, have a tiny amount of bushing play deliberately in the design...but it is so minimal that you can barely notice it. Other manufactures, i.e. X-Fusion, there is no play at all. If there is ANY excessive play take it to a LBS you trust, have them look at it and call RS. My Pike started out with just sloppy play but then evolved into knocking...so every slightly. 
A couple of ways I found I could detect the knocking is to place the fork in the "lockout" mode, depress the front brake and rock back and forth or I grab the uppers just above the wiper...hold it firm and place my thumb on top of the arch to prevent any travel...depress the front brake and rock back and forth. If I do that there will be sloppy movement and start knocking immediately.

Don't mean to cause any unnecessary worry, but we all paid a hefty sum for these forks...they should work correctly.

Sorry for rambling...just my 2 Cents.

Cheers,


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

I own enough other forks to know that this Pike has the worst sloppy feel. Your concern is legit and I am following thread so when knocking sounds does appear on my Pike, I know it's time for warranty. Right now I can live with it since riding season hasnt ended.


----------



## Dased (May 29, 2004)

Has anyone cone from an X-fusion vengeance hlr to a pike? If so how do they compare?


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

I did and it was over 1lbs heavier. Pike to Vengeance is not an apple to apple comparison, Lyrik is. Plush but neg coil spring made an annoying clicking sound that even X-fusion couldnt fix so I returned it for refund.


----------



## downhill502 (Feb 22, 2012)

I spent half a season on the Vengeance Air HLR. Its a good damper for heavy riders but for light riders say under 180lbs it has very harsh high speed comp. circuit and the lowers will regularly build up air that you have to bleed out through the main seals. Not to mention the constant creak from the steertube. I run a 27.5 Pike with 26" wheels and wont be changing. I have not noticed any stiffness difference at all between the two but you will definitely feel the weight and composure of the Pike


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

Back to the bushing/knocking issue...
Interesting... I've got about 300 miles on mine (140mm 29 Solo), and don't have this issue at all. 
Agree with everyone that we should all be diligent about this issue because it's not acceptable. But, for what it's worth, it's not happening with all of them (e.g mine).


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

addATX said:


> Back to the bushing/knocking issue...
> Interesting... I've got about 300 miles on mine (140mm 29 Solo), and don't have this issue at all.
> Agree with everyone that we should all be diligent about this issue because it's not acceptable. But, for what it's worth, it's not happening with all of them (e.g mine).


Hey man, glad to hear you are having no issues. I have a 26" @ 160mm, maybe its isolated to that format. And it gives me confidence that it can be corrected. Love the overall performance of the fork. 
I should know soon, will keep you posted.

Cheers,


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

You guys that feel a knocking, when grabbing the front brake, do know that the front brake pads can clunk back-and-forth slightly in the caliper right? I'd bet it's hard to tell the difference. Might try the same thing just grabbing the lowers at the axle, instead of using the front brake.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

thuren said:


> You guys that feel a knocking, when grabbing the front brake, do know that the front brake pads can clunk back-and-forth slightly in the caliper right? I'd bet it's hard to tell the difference. Might try the same thing just grabbing the lowers at the axle, instead of using the front brake.


Good point, I have not grabbed the axle, but have put a BOS Deville and X-Fusion Vengeance on the same frame with the same brakes...no sloppy movement and knocking with either forks. I also moved the Pike to a different frame with different brakes...same knocking...but I'll check the axle...yup just checked can feel the play and hear the knocking...just not as loud. Oh, feel much better...not really.

Cheers,


----------



## megrpirate (Nov 10, 2012)

thuren said:


> You guys that feel a knocking, when grabbing the front brake, do know that the front brake pads can clunk back-and-forth slightly in the caliper right? I'd bet it's hard to tell the difference. Might try the same thing just grabbing the lowers at the axle, instead of using the front brake.


I get the top out clunk with just lifting my front wheel off the ground. The first 5-10mm if travel has no compression and the lowers drop to a clunk at top out.

This was from straight out of the box, so hopefully if yours are riding fine you should have no worries.

Also on 160mm 26"


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

There is a self adjusting negative spring (I can tell) and my pike sags about 2mm by itself.


----------



## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

It looks like my Pike has the knocking issue as well and will need to be warrantied. My fork was purchased online, but I assume my LBS could take care of the warranty. Hopefully I'll get sent a new fork and the waiting period will be minimal.


----------



## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

competitive cyclist spoke with a sram tech and supposed its an issue with the first 150 or so forks produced. My new fork will be here monday and they knocked $100 off.


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

My Pike went out to RS for creaky crown warranty. It creaked for two months I owned it. I thought it was crappy headset the whole time or suspension pivot from my frame. Oh, well, will see how quickly I get my fork back from RS.

Far as I can tell it creaked from day 1. When I first noticed it I totally disregarded the Pike as the culprit.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

Update,
RS sent a new Pike to my LBS. RS did not have a 26" 160mm on hand, they offered a 150mm with a 160mm air spring kit. LBS will swap out the air spring to adjust travel. The swap this a simple process...so I'm happy with RS and LBS's efforts to correct. Should have a ride on it by Wednesday. Will keep you posted.

Cheers,


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

jjkitt said:


> Update,
> RS sent a new Pike to my LBS. RS did not have a 26" 160mm on hand, they offered a 150mm with a 160mm air spring kit. LBS will swap out the air spring to adjust travel. The swap this a simple process...so I'm happy with RS and LBS's efforts to correct. Should have a ride on it by Wednesday. Will keep you posted.
> 
> Cheers,


You should try and keep the 150 spring kit as well!


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Tech help needed....

Today the RCT3 knob worked its way loose on a ride. It started to rattle and I couldn't dial in the compression settings.

Took the compression knobs off. Pretty simple.

I'd like to know if I'm missing any parts. Also if during reassembly where does SRAM recommend loctite and/or grease?

I can't find the service manual for dealing with the compression damper. Anyone know who can give me a link.

In order of disassembly:

1. Tiny hex head screw holding on the LSC knob.

2. Proprietary, threaded, nut-like black part. About the diameter of a penny, that screws down/within the main/large compression knob. It secures the main adjustment knob to the damper.

3. Main/large compression knob. Appears to sit directly on top of a knurled/jagged circular rim of metal that when turned adjusts the main modes: Open, Trail, Descend. Seems that it is only the friction between the jagged surface of this part and the main knob is what allows it to be adjusted. I was wondering if there is perhaps a part that should be between the two? Something like a thin plastic washer or O-ring. Seems like an unusual interface.

Finally during reassembly it seems like there is no special way to replace the main knob except that you should likely install it with the main adjustment full counterclockwise to Open.

Seems like when I put it back together the Trail settings seem much stiffer than before. That is highly subjective and likely my imagination.

Thoughts?


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)




----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

This should help!


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> This should help!


Tacubaya,
You wouldn't happen to have a shim stacking of the fork would you? I think I want to open up the super low speed compression and choke down on the mid-stroke a bit.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

tacubaya said:


> This should help!


Perfect. Thanks. Main knob appears to rest directly on the knurled surface.

I too think the LSC is too agressive in trail mode and would like it backed off.

Does the LSC adjustment have any effect when in Open mode?


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Miker J said:


> Perfect. Thanks. Main knob appears to rest directly on the knurled surface.
> 
> I too think the LSC is too agressive in trail mode and would like it backed off.
> 
> Does the LSC adjustment have any effect when in Open mode?


Common misconception: the LSC adjust is designed primarily to be used in open mode. It's a different philosophy than CTD. The whole point of the "pedal" or middle mode of the RCT3 is aggressive LSC. We hashed this out a while back in some other thread.

I personally don't ever use anything other than open on my Pike (of the three). I tweak the LSC as needed.


----------



## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Got my replacement Pike today. Should have it on and a short test ride tomorrow.


----------



## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Jayem said:


> There is a self adjusting negative spring (I can tell) and my pike sags about 2mm by itself.


Jayem, is this a good thing or bad thing? I've never had a fork do this before. I'm a bit confused as to whether this is a symptom or not of the bushing issues that others are having. I don't hear a knock when I ride, but I haven't done any tests on the bushings either. Seems odd to me that the first 5mm or so has no damping at all. I'm on a 29er 160mm travel pike.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Pau11y said:


> Tacubaya,
> You wouldn't happen to have a shim stacking of the fork would you? I think I want to open up the super low speed compression and choke down on the mid-stroke a bit.


I don't, sorry.


----------



## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

I too have noticed the clunking in my fork (26" 160mm solo) It was great for the first few days and then noticed when riding that I was feeling a knocking through the handlebar.
Isolated it down to the fork and it is driving me nuts because I can hear it and feel it when riding. I hope to hell this doesn't turn out to the Rockshox version of the Fox-creaky-crown problems that I had two of my old fox forks.
Those of you who have sent it back, did you get an RA from SRAM or from your BS/Online retailer? I bought mine through Universal cycles.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

hillharman said:


> Common misconception: the LSC adjust is designed primarily to be used in open mode. It's a different philosophy than CTD. The whole point of the "pedal" or middle mode of the RCT3 is aggressive LSC. We hashed this out a while back in some other thread.
> 
> I personally don't ever use anything other than open on my Pike (of the three). I tweak the LSC as needed.


Sorry for my failure to grasp what you are saying regarding the LSC adjustment.

So, does the LSC knob adjust compression settings when the fork is in Open/Descend setting? I think not.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Miker J said:


> Sorry for my failure to grasp what you are saying regarding the LSC adjustment.
> 
> So, does the LSC knob adjust compression settings when the fork is in Open/Descend setting? I think not.


It definitely does. Quote from Rock Shox on Pike page regarding RCT3: "RCT3 features Open with an adjustable low speed compression, Pedal and Lock." Note comma location. I've also confirmed it with SRAM reps. I wish I could remember the thread in which several of us spent about 3 pages hashing this out, but this is always how the RCT3 controls have worked. I couldn't tell you if the LSC control works in the "Pedal" (middle) setting or not, but that's not it's intended purpose. Too little damper oil would sometimes cause LSC knob weirdness in the non-Charger dampers, but given that this is a sealed system, it's probably less likely to be an issue.

Source of quote: Charger Damper | Rockshox | SRAM


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

And maybe to clarify my initial point: the point of the middle "pedal" setting is to give you a lot of LSC, far more than you could get with just the LSC adjuster. This then blows off at some threshold level.

The "trail" setting of the CTD damper serves the purpose of adding varying (3) amounts of LSC, depending on the trail adjust number (1, 2 or 3). If you wanted more LSC than "wide open" on the RCT3, you would just dial it in with the LSC adjuster while in the open setting, not change to pedal. I find the Pike to work well without ever using "pedal," but I don't tend to do much standing and mashing. Even when I do, the open setting with some LSC works fine.

This is why the RCT3 controls are vastly preferable, in my opinion, to CTD. LSC is the primary suspension feature that ought to be user adjustable, and the Pike gives you the finest range of adjustment while keeping an open feeling fork.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

*Update to warrenty Pike for knocking*

Rode my warrantied 26" 160mm Pike today for about 1.5 hour with my LBS mechanic. So for so good no knocking. Had it on my Nicolai ION 16 and my mechanic swapped out riding it...the other bike was a Turner 5-Spot with a BOS Deville. We sessioned some small/med table tops and two drops (4ft and a 6ft). The Pike felt great, after the ride we tried to verify any movement/knocking in the stanchions...came to the conclusion it felt exactly like the BOS...but will continue to monitor. Performance wise we both agreed that it (Pike) barely surpassed the BOS...both are different yet the same, all in good ways...but the progressive spring rate and ubber plushness of the Pike put in on top.

I plan to hit it hard on Saturday and will continue to update...but so far so good. So, thanks to my LBS pushing RS, and to RS for getting me the new fork in a timely fashion.

Cheers,


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

hillharman said:


> It definitely does. Quote from Rock Shox on Pike page regarding RCT3: "RCT3 features Open with an adjustable low speed compression, Pedal and Lock." Note comma location. I've also confirmed it with SRAM reps. I wish I could remember the thread in which several of us spent about 3 pages hashing this out, but this is always how the RCT3 controls have worked. I couldn't tell you if the LSC control works in the "Pedal" (middle) setting or not, but that's not it's intended purpose. Too little damper oil would sometimes cause LSC knob weirdness in the non-Charger dampers, but given that this is a sealed system, it's probably less likely to be an issue.
> 
> Source of quote: Charger Damper | Rockshox | SRAM


Thanks.

Assuming the thread was about the RCT3 specifically, not the Pike's RCT3, pretty sure I recall and was part of it. Pretty sure it was the Revelation fork's RCT3. Doesn't really matter.

Not to kick a dead horse, but I can definitely feel the affect of dialing the LSC knob when in Pedal mode. Not so much at all in the Open mode. Will have to play with it some more in the Open mode.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Miker J said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Assuming the thread was about the RCT3 specifically, not the Pike's RCT3, pretty sure I recall and was part of it. Pretty sure it was the Revelation fork's RCT3. Doesn't really matter.
> 
> Not to kick a dead horse, but I can definitely feel the affect of dialing the LSC knob when in Pedal mode. Not so much at all in the Open mode. Will have to play with it some more in the Open mode.


I believe you about the LSC in pedal mode. My experience with the Pike is that the LSC is very low LSC, and as a result, pretty subtle. Like the oscillation of a pedal stroke or brake diving. It doesn't take much to bypass the circuit. That's my very crude take on it, at least. My philosophy is to run a fork as open as possible, dialing up LSC to manage brake dive when descending low speed, steep technical stuff. I can tell a difference with the Pike's LSC there, so I'm very happy with it.


----------



## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Can anyone clarify a warranty question I have? I'm going to grab a pike soon and obviously with the issues mentioned in this thread I want to be covered. I glanced at the warranty off Rockshox's site and it states that claims must be made through the retailer you purchase the fork from. Is this actually the case or could I have my LBS also send in the fork for warranty purposes?


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

I wanted to report on a problem that I had last night. It seems to have resolved itself, but here's what happened:

Starting from the "climb" setting, I could move the adjuster to "pedal", but it then hung up about halfway to "open." With a bit of extra pressure, it moved in to "open," but could move past it, independently of the LSC adjuster nob, which usually rotates with the three position nob. The strange thing is... after a few minutes of this, it returned to normal, appropriate function. Should I pull the adjuster apart and look at it? Should I forget it ever happened since the fork is working correctly now?


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

kan3 said:


> Can anyone clarify a warranty question I have? I'm going to grab a pike soon and obviously with the issues mentioned in this thread I want to be covered. I glanced at the warranty off Rockshox's site and it states that claims must be made through the retailer you purchase the fork from. Is this actually the case or could I have my LBS also send in the fork for warranty purposes?


Typically if you have a solid relationship with your LBS, then yeah, they should support you. make sure you buy it from an authorized seller though!


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

hillharman said:


> I wanted to report on a problem that I had last night. It seems to have resolved itself, but here's what happened:
> 
> Starting from the "climb" setting, I could move the adjuster to "pedal", but it then hung up about halfway to "open." With a bit of extra pressure, it moved in to "open," but could move past it, independently of the LSC adjuster nob, which usually rotates with the three position nob. The strange thing is... after a few minutes of this, it returned to normal, appropriate function. Should I pull the adjuster apart and look at it? Should I forget it ever happened since the fork is working correctly now?


My warranty Pike was very similar to that straight out of the box. It's a simple fix and worth the time and peace of mind to complete. My LBS mechanic and I removed the adjustor...it appears the main adjustor knob was initially loose and not sitting in the two detents holes causing it not to rotate to the different settings correctly. We removed, adjusted, reinstalled, and all the rotation worked perfectly with each setting change stopping with a "click". It's about a 1 beer job!
Hope this helps,

Cheers,


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

kan3 said:


> Can anyone clarify a warranty question I have? I'm going to grab a pike soon and obviously with the issues mentioned in this thread I want to be covered. I glanced at the warranty off Rockshox's site and it states that claims must be made through the retailer you purchase the fork from. Is this actually the case or could I have my LBS also send in the fork for warranty purposes?


I bought my Pike online and my LBS handled all the warranty issues. I am regular, so that might have helped. I am so impressed with the LBS I am talking to them above purchasing a second Pike for my other bike. Any LBS worth its "salt" knows it cannot compete with the online prices, and to make up the difference they need to give great customer service. Talk to them, they may be able to come close to the online price....it can be a win-win. They get to sell you something cool, you get at deal, keep you money local, and know who will help you if there is a warranty issue.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,


----------



## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Sure

I gave them a call just now. Doesn't hurt to see how close they can get to online pricing. I'm willing to overpay a bit to keep it local.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

jjkitt said:


> My warranty Pike was very similar to that straight out of the box. It's a simple fix and worth the time and peace of mind to complete. My LBS mechanic and I removed the adjustor...it appears the main adjustor knob was initially loose and not sitting in the two detents holes causing it not to rotate to the different settings correctly. We removed, adjusted, reinstalled, and all the rotation worked perfectly with each setting change stopping with a "click". It's about a 1 beer job!
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Cheers,


Thanks for the tip. This is more or less what I had expected. I'll probably pull it apart this weekend.


----------



## pdqmach26 (Jul 24, 2011)

Has anyone been able to get extra tokens for your Pike fork? Called the shop I purchased the fork from and they said no go.



thefriar said:


> I'm going to call RS today and see where I can get more tokens.
> 
> Didn't notice one. Two started to make things a bit more noticeably progressive. I think three will give me the small bump, sag, and the ramp for more aggressive lines/chunk.


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Yes. I have extras.

I had to call SRAM directly and ask them to send out. They sent to my LBS (took 4-5 weeks). But cost was $0, so works perfectly.

Running three and very happy.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

thefriar said:


> Yes. I have extras.
> 
> I had to call SRAM directly and ask them to send out. They sent to my LBS (took 4-5 weeks). But cost was $0, so works perfectly.
> 
> Running three and very happy.


Out of curiosity, how much do you weigh and what pressure are you running?


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

245 w/o gear, probably about 252-257 geared.
80PSI
27% sag


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

jjkitt said:


> My warranty Pike was very similar to that straight out of the box. It's a simple fix and worth the time and peace of mind to complete. My LBS mechanic and I removed the adjustor...it appears the main adjustor knob was initially loose and not sitting in the two detents holes causing it not to rotate to the different settings correctly. We removed, adjusted, reinstalled, and all the rotation worked perfectly with each setting change stopping with a "click". It's about a 1 beer job!
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Cheers,


Be careful..... My Pike did something very similar, and the knobs going past their clicks was the first indication of weirdness... I then noticed that over the last few rides, my 3 position knob lost effectiveness, along with the LSC knob doing the same. Today I decided to pull the top cap of the damper, from the crown, and ended up unthreading the entire damper cartridge in two pieces. Basically what had happened, which is super strange, is the damper started to unthread mid-way, and lost oil. Threaded it back together, bled with new oil, and the clickers now stop where they should, and work again. Super goofball....


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

thuren said:


> Be careful..... My Pike did something very similar, and the knobs going past their clicks was the first indication of weirdness... I then noticed that over the last few rides, my 3 position knob lost effectiveness, along with the LSC knob doing the same. Today I decided to pull the top cap of the damper, from the crown, and ended up unthreading the entire damper cartridge in two pieces. Basically what had happened, which is super strange, is the damper started to unthread mid-way, and lost oil. Threaded it back together, bled with new oil, and the clickers now stop where they should, and work again. Super goofball....


thuren,

Thanks for the info and heads-up, I'll make sure to keep an eye on it. So far all is well and the fork is performing perfectly! Moved the fork over to my 5Spot and plan to give it a hard ride this weekend. If the fork continues to perform at the current level I plan on selling my BOS and getting another Pike!

Cheers,


----------



## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

Just got my new solo pike and there is no sag setting etching on the stanchion- is this normal?


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

cptjack said:


> Just got my new solo pike and there is no sag setting etching on the stanchion- is this normal?


Definitely not normal... better call the bike shop again.


----------



## fuenstock (May 14, 2006)

cptjack said:


> Just got my new solo pike and there is no sag setting etching on the stanchion- is this normal?


I don't think 29er forks have the sag markers. The 140 29er I bought did not have them. My 160 26 pike does have them.


----------



## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

HAHA - man, I am going to have a stroke if this situation doesn't improve!!!!


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

fuenstock said:


> I don't think 29er forks have the sag markers. The 140 29er I bought did not have them. My 160 26 pike does have them.


The 29" 140 doesn't have them, but the 150 and 160 both do - they use the same stanchion.


----------



## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

kragu said:


> The 29" 140 doesn't have them, but the 150 and 160 both do - they use the same stanchion.


Allah be praised


----------



## dcpowpow (Sep 1, 2006)

I have been riding my new Ibis HDR with a 150mm Fox 2013 CTD fork for a month and have been very unhappy. I just replaced it with the 150mm RockShox Pike 27.5" and the fork is amazing. Right out of the box almost spot on. I am 160lbs and running 60psi, but will check my sag. Seems fairly close. I love the action of this fork and the Fox was topping out and clunking on square edge hits. The action on the Fox was also "boingy" and I really played with all the settings and could not find anything that worked. The Pike is a 5 star for sure and my bike will finally be able to live up to it's full potential.


----------



## DeanFBM (May 8, 2011)

My pikes have a couple of mm of free play at the the top of the stroke, my two colleagues who i used to work with, both their pikes do the same thing. They got onto the phone to sram uk who assured that it is perfectly normal and a function of the solo air spring design used.

So my question is, those people who seem to have "bushing knocking", are you sure it isn't just this?

It can be demonstrated by -

1. Standing over the forks, compressing them a few times, not allowing them to reach full travel.
2. Lift front wheel off the floor, give it a couple of seconds, then watch them extend an extra couple of mm suddenly, sometimes with a little knock.
3. Put front wheel back on floor gently, avoiding compressing them, apply front brake, rock back and fourth gently trying to detect knocking, i guarantee you'll find it.

Are peoples bushing knocking actually anything more than this.

Also, i didn't get it explained to me fully for the reason why the fork has this couple of extra mm extra free extension. The air spring is essentially a single piston separating a pos and neg air chamber, the piston passes a dimple on the internal surface of the fork leg, chambers equalise. I think a little extra force trying to extend the forks (the weight of the front wheel etc in this case) takes the piston back past the equalisation point allowing a bit of extra extension.

Yay or nay

PS my pikes feel pretty awesome.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DeanFBM said:


> Also, i didn't get it explained to me fully for the reason why the fork has this couple of extra mm extra free extension. The air spring is essentially a single piston separating a pos and neg air chamber, the piston passes a dimple on the internal surface of the fork leg, chambers equalise. I think a little extra force trying to extend the forks (the weight of the front wheel etc in this case) takes the piston back past the equalisation point allowing a bit of extra extension.


I noticed this too, both letting air out of the fork on the trail and with the test you mentioned. I assumed it was the negative spring equalizing, as I've noticed the same behavior before in other shocks. It's normal, but if someone is calling that bushing knocking, as you say, they are mistaken, it's the wrong direction (up and down) for the knocking.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

The bike I'm picking up is spec'd with a 150mm travel 2014 Fox Float and I'm going to replace it with a Pike. 

Same size Pike's A2C is listed at 542mm. The 2013 Fox is 544. That would work well for me but not sure what the Fox _2014_ A2C is. 

Anyone know for sure if the 2013 and 14 are the same? Sorry, a bit off topic.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

DeanFBM said:


> My pikes have a couple of mm of free play at the the top of the stroke, my two colleagues who i used to work with, both their pikes do the same thing. They got onto the phone to sram uk who assured that it is perfectly normal and a function of the solo air spring design used.
> 
> So my question is, those people who seem to have "bushing knocking", are you sure it isn't just this?
> 
> ...


DeanFBM,
Read your post prior to hitting the trail for a ride on my warrantied Pike. My warrantied Pike feels just how you describe yours operates. AND it's performance is nothing like my original Pike...on my original Pike I could feel and see the side-to-side movement (NOT up and down movement) of the stanchions in relation to the lowers..causing it to knock loudly as well. The side-to-side movement is what really freaked me out, the knocking was just icing on the cake.

That being said, very happy with my new Pike, very satisfied how my LBS and RS treated me too.

BTW...love the look of your YETI!! My buddy has one and loves it...when I head back home to Durgano, CO next summer I'm going rent one and ride the Test Tracks, Snake Charmer, Horse Gulch and the Hermosa Creek Trail!

Cheers,


----------



## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Has anyone had a problem with the rebound knob leaking oil? Not to the point of it dripping but that the knob is covered in oil. Wiped it off this morning and went for a 20 miler, got back and it was all slick again.  This is my 2nd Pike, first one had bushing issues.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Streetdoctor said:


> Has anyone had a problem with the rebound knob leaking oil? Not to the point of it dripping but that the knob is covered in oil. Wiped it off this morning and went for a 20 miler, got back and it was all slick again.  This is my 2nd Pike, first one had bushing issues.


Nope, I've taken it apart to replenish the oil bath, sound like it's the oil bath? Need a new crush-washer?


----------



## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

I don't see why, the fork has about 50 miles on it. Checked the hex bolt and it was tightened to spec. I guess I'll see if I can get my hands on a washer. Probably swap oil out at the same time


----------



## Komdotkom (Feb 21, 2012)

I just got my new pikes from Chain Reaction, failed after 10km.
The air spring stanchion is damaged on the inside causing the lower leg to be pressurized and blowing the dust seals out.
I thought that rs had fixed their QC issues....


----------



## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

So, the bottom right is obviously a rebound damper and the top is a compression damper (the small one)? Clock wise or counter clockwise to decrease. How do would you set it up initially for more or less maximum small bump compliance- without going into the fork. I apologize for this newbie type post but things have been rough for me lately

Thanks 

Jack


----------



## G-AIR (Jan 23, 2004)

I would start off by setting your sag between 20-25%. Once you get this set, dial in the rebound. I would start right in the middle. Turn towards the turtle to slow it down and the rabbit to speed it up. For the compression (top right) start with it fully open (counter-clockwise). Ride it like that for a few rides. If it is diving add a couple clicks of LSC (low speed compression) at a time.

If you are blowing through the travel you can add one or two of the "token" spacers. This will help,resist bottoming.

Personally I don't use the three positions dial at all. I,leave it in the open position.

Good luck



cptjack said:


> So, the bottom right is obviously a rebound damper and the top is a compression damper (the small one)? Clock wise or counter clockwise to decrease. How do would you set it up initially for more or less maximum small bump compliance- without going into the fork. I apologize for this newbie type post but things have been rough for me lately
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jack


----------



## SManZ (Jun 21, 2013)

I just recently installed a Pike 150mm Solo Air on my Santa Cruz Bronson Carbon. Its been taking hot steaming dumps all over my Fox 34 Float CTD. Every single ride.

I'm about 150-155lbs geared up. I'm running about 47-48psi, compression 1 click tight from full open, rebound 3 clicks slow from full open, 1 bottomless token. I'm getting excellent small bump compliance, fork stays in the top third to half of the travel the majority of the time, still takes the larger hits without bottoming out. The front runs smoother the faster I go. I've been able to corner harder with more grip...the front just feels like it stays planted.

Now trying to decide between a Cane Creek DB Air CS or RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 for the rear shock...


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

What fork oil are people using for lower bath service. It says rockshox 0w30 but this doesnt seem readily available and I'm sure there is probably a equivelent that is both available and cheaper (maybe 0-w30 synthetic motor oil?). Thanks


----------



## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

G-AIR said:


> I would start off by setting your sag between 20-25%. Once you get this set, dial in the rebound. I would start right in the middle. Turn towards the turtle to slow it down and the rabbit to speed it up. For the compression (top right) start with it fully open (counter-clockwise). Ride it like that for a few rides. If it is diving add a couple clicks of LSC (low speed compression) at a time.
> 
> If you are blowing through the travel you can add one or two of the "token" spacers. This will help,resist bottoming.
> 
> ...


Man! Exactly what I wanted! Thanks G-AIR!


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jimarin said:


> What fork oil are people using for lower bath service. It says rockshox 0w30 but this doesnt seem readily available and I'm sure there is probably a equivelent that is both available and cheaper (maybe 0-w30 synthetic motor oil?). Thanks


They mean 0 w30 motor oil. The bath oil is not used for damping. You can use almost any kind of oil for the bath damping.


----------



## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

baltik said:


> Does anyone else find it odd that one side of the lowers takes 15ml of oil and the other 5? if the lower leg oil is there purely for lubrication seems like they should be the same no? As far as I can tell every other fork takes the same amount in both legs.. Possible typo by Sram?


Anyone else think this is odd?


----------



## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Just received mine today. First thing I did was open it and check the bath oil levels. I got 10ml out of the spring side and not a single drip out of the damper side.


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

How is that possible? 

I just got my Pike back from creaky crown repair. They replaced upper and lower only instead of sending me a new one. It definitely has much less bushing play.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

baltik said:


> Anyone else think this is odd?


Not really, it's been like that on other RS forks for years.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

I just opened mine. Damper side bath was pretty dry. I was also surprised there was no fluid in the air spring chamber just some slick honey. Is that the way it's supposed to be? 

Maybe I was spoiled by the suppleness of my 2012 36 van but this fork so far isn't even close to as smooth. It feels like there is some stiction on the small bump and spiking on bigger square edge hits. I'm running 70psi and am around 210. I'm hoping the lower bath oil change helps.


----------



## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

jimarin said:


> I just opened mine. Damper side bath was pretty dry. I was also surprised there was no fluid in the air spring chamber just some slick honey. Is that the way it's supposed to be?
> 
> Maybe I was spoiled by the suppleness of my 2012 36 van but this fork so far isn't even close to as smooth. It feels like there is some stiction on the small bump and spiking on bigger square edge hits. I'm running 70psi and am around 210. I'm hoping the lower bath oil change helps.


Mine and several others I have had apart only had slick honey in the air side and were alittle dry in the damper side......real normal , the slick honey works really good all by itself, many suspensions only use slick honey on the air chamber .

My 150 solo air Pike is real plush and supple , I am 145 and am running 75 psi in it with no volume reducers at all, I would think you at 210 would be running more PSI .

When I go through one I always add 20 cc 0W30 wt to both lowers and I add 5 cc of 0W30 wt along with slick honey in the air chamber , really seems to make them even plusher !!

I am going to use Fox anti friction lube on the air chamber on my Pike and see how it works , ( should be just dandy ) .........still playing with lube a little and getting a feel for what will make them a smooth as possible,

I am going to change the compression shim stack alittle bit for me on my Pike , I am running it wide open and I want to try and open the stack up with a cross over shim and clamp it on a smaller shim to enable me to use the compression setting .

But I am really loving this fork , this is like a coil fork for me but without the weight , and the thing is really ridged :thumbsup:


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

I wouldn't have thought that putting any sort of oil in the air chamber on a solo air fork would be a good idea. As soon as the seal head moves over the dimple that lets the neg camber equalize, oil will end up in the neg chamber, which would reduce its volume, wouldn't it?


----------



## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

Kiwiplague said:


> I wouldn't have thought that putting any sort of oil in the air chamber on a solo air fork would be a good idea. As soon as the seal head moves over the dimple that lets the neg camber equalize, oil will end up in the neg chamber, which would reduce its volume, wouldn't it?


That is a very good question ,I take the 5cc's of oil and mix it with the slick honey and brush it on the piston and coat the wall of the positive and negative air chamber with it , so its not like a liquid.

when I do a shock I use the same technique , even on a stock Fox CTD shock you can hear the lube getting pushed and pulled back and forth through from the positive and negative side , so it in no way is settling anywhere it shouldn't.

I just can not believe how much I really like this fork !


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Kiwiplague said:


> I wouldn't have thought that putting any sort of oil in the air chamber on a solo air fork would be a good idea. As soon as the seal head moves over the dimple that lets the neg camber equalize, oil will end up in the neg chamber, which would reduce its volume, wouldn't it?


Yes, that is exactly why they only use Slick Honey (light grease) and no oil in the air chamber.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

DeanFBM said:


> My pikes have a couple of mm of free play at the the top of the stroke


I am noticing this only now and after few weeks of hard use. Assume all OK if other riders are experiencing the same?


----------



## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

iguanabartola said:


> I am noticing this only now and after few weeks of hard use. Assume all OK if other riders are experiencing the same?


Yes, like was said several times earlier they all do this right there at the pressure equalization point , I have had several sets through my shop and my own all do this .
Its just a normal function on this design , I noticed this right out the gate on mine and others .
This fork just works so good I still can not believe it , I have tried to find something wrong or something about the design that I did not like and I can't .

Its not very often that in the mountain biking we actually get a piece of hard wear that really works as intended , ......but this Pike really delivers .

And like anything there is and has been some issues and frankly I do not care , my bushings are loose and I still love the thing , I will make new bushings for mine when it gets real bad ,........:thumbsup:


----------



## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

Thanks Kelstr! Couldnt agree more about these forks.
Amazing piece of suspension they are!



kelstr said:


> Yes, like was said several times earlier they all do this right there at the pressure equalization point , I have had several sets through my shop and my own all do this .
> Its just a normal function on this design , I noticed this right out the gate on mine and others .
> This fork just works so good I still can not believe it , I have tried to find something wrong or something about the design that I did not like and I can't .
> 
> ...


----------



## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Can someone confirm the number of clicks of the compression controls?
The small inner low speed compression adjuster has 12 clicks?

Does the open - pedal - lock settings each have a click?

Right now my fork has a click with the lever pointing to the front of the bike (rider view looking down at the fork) The next click is 100-120 degrees later and that's it.

Is the pedal position not "clicked" or is my damper rod not clocked correctly in order to get the third click?


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

12 clicks on low speed compression

Yes its has three distinct lever positions and should feel obvious click.


----------



## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Cool. That's what I thought. Thanks.


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

In case anyone is curious, there are some oil changes with the Pike compared to the Revelation. I noticed on the 2014 suspension oil volume chart, it lists the following for the Pike:

*Pike RCT3 drive side - Charger*
Upper tube: 3 wt suspension oil (under volume it says "Bleed")
Lower leg: 5ml of "0w30" wt suspension oil

*Pike RCT3 non drive side - Solo Air*
Upper tube: No oil required
Lower leg: 15ml of "0w30" wt suspension oil

Here's the oil volume chart... http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/t..._a_rockshox_oil_air_and_coil_chart_2014_0.pdf

Not sure what they mean by "Bleed" on the volume value for the Charger, will need to see the Pike manual in order to make sense of it, unless anyone else knows?

Here are the part numbers for the oil btw:

11.4015.354.050 - RockShox Pike Suspension oil, 0W-30, 1 Liter Bottle
11.4315.004.020 - RockShox Rear Suspension Damping Fluid 3wt 16oz bottle

and I found them on this website (if anyone is looking to buy them on-line):

Bikeman RockShox Pike Suspension Oil 0-W30 1 Liter Bottle

Bikeman SRAM PitStop Rear Suspension Oil: 3 Weight; 16oz

On another note the Revelation manual (which apparently is the reference to follow for now), the lower leg installation mentions applying Buzzy's® Slick Honey bike grease to the dust seals. Is this the same as Judi Butter? And is it required for the Pike?


----------



## SManZ (Jun 21, 2013)

I think that because the new damper is a bladder it is bled until full of new oil. I'll look forward to RS posting service docs for this fork  For now I'm just gonna ride the hell out of mine.


----------



## rehammer81 (Jun 18, 2010)

The Charger damper is a closed system. You would fill it with the volume of oil to bleed all of the air.


----------



## Bronsondude (Apr 23, 2013)

Mine just keeps getting better and better. I couldn't be happier. Why anyone would ride a Fox at this point is beyond me. Kelster set mine up and it's butter baby!


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Has anyone ridden the 2014 Fox FIT 34 talas and the Pike and able to give me a good view on each of them?

I have a 2014 Fox FIT 34 Talas and am considering buying a Pike, I am just not 100% convinced I will notice a big difference between the two and am thinking that its better to stick with the devil I know so to speak.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Rick Draper said:


> Has anyone ridden the 2014 Fox FIT 34 talas and the Pike and able to give me a good view on each of them?
> 
> I have a 2014 Fox FIT 34 Talas and am considering buying a Pike, I am just not 100% convinced I will notice a big difference between the two and am thinking that its better to stick with the devil I know so to speak.


I came from a 2014 Float 34, which was much improved over the 2013. The Pike is clearly better. Different tech, different feel, and those of the Pike are superior.


----------



## bluesrider (Jun 16, 2010)

I have the Pike 160mm rct3 650b and have a issue with the air pressure. This is the solo air model so set up a no brainer. Problem is I'm having to run 45psi to get 20% sag, but at 200lb riding weigth I should be in the 75-85 psi range. I came off a Lyrik solo air and rode that fork in the proper psi range. Fork seems to work well, but it's odd to have the psi range so far off. Anyone experience this with their Pike?


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

I have the same exact fork. I run about 47-50psi with two tokens and weight 155lbs dry. I get 20% too when just sitting upright but gets 25% when in attack position. You should be checking sag in attack position.


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Anyone know where to source the bleed syringe for the charger damper, or maybe just the fitting?


----------



## rehammer81 (Jun 18, 2010)

I have the 650b 160mm solo air also and run 65psi to get 20% - 25% sag. I'm 175 ready to ride.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

regularbob said:


> On another note the Revelation manual (which apparently is the reference to follow for now), the lower leg installation mentions applying Buzzy's® Slick Honey bike grease to the dust seals. Is this the same as Judi Butter? And is it required for the Pike?


They've got the Pike service manual up now:

http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf


----------



## bicol_express (May 21, 2009)

addATX said:


> They've got the Pike service manual up now:
> 
> http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf


Hmmm, no mention of travel change on the DPA. Only for the solo air with the tokens. Mine's a 26er 150mm DPA RCT3 (got a good deal on a slightly used one). I was wondering if I could up it to 160mm. It seems it won't be possible without changing the air shaft as the diagram shows no tokens for the DPA.


----------



## Verbl Kint (Feb 14, 2013)

It really pisses me off that we still don't have this in the Philippines.

Posted via Tapatalk


----------



## bedanbiker19 (May 15, 2013)

Bro. verbl kint,

Souther Controls Racing in Laguna has them...also Bike Bike Bike (DPA model black 160 for 26) at Bike Tiange...what I find to be ridiculous is that the SRAM authorized PHL distributor still at present does not have any pike in their stores...you can place an order but they cannot fix a date for their shipping...:- (


----------



## mastakilla (Sep 3, 2005)

I am a real basic end user and not have not mucked around with tuning my fork much. Just riding it and really liking it.

Are you guys running yours forks in open or pedal setting? I tried the pedal setting but it found it lost the plush feel.

Are most people running the air tokens? I have not tried that yet.


----------



## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

bicol_express said:


> Hmmm, no mention of travel change on the DPA. Only for the solo air with the tokens. Mine's a 26er 150mm DPA RCT3 (got a good deal on a slightly used one). I was wondering if I could up it to 160mm. It seems it won't be possible without changing the air shaft as the diagram shows no tokens for the DPA.


The "Tokens" are only for the air volume change to alter progression in the "Solo Air" , the "Tokens" have nothing to do with travel change .

The "Solo Air" and the "DPA" both need different air shafts to correctly alter travel.

You could just buy the "Solo Air" 160 air side and be just fine


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

mastakilla said:


> I am a real basic end user and not have not mucked around with tuning my fork much. Just riding it and really liking it.
> 
> Are you guys running yours forks in open or pedal setting? I tried the pedal setting but it found it lost the plush feel.
> 
> Are most people running the air tokens? I have not tried that yet.


The "pedal" setting, or "trail" setting in Fox lingo, is very harsh IMO. It was the same thing with the Revelation.

The Pike is a great fork, but I sure wish there was a way to tune down the compression or "blow off" (not sure if its a compression thing or a "threshold" setting) because I find the fork almost unusable in the pedal mode. Combine that with the "lock out" or "climb" mode, I've got a fork where I use only 1 of three main modes.

With that said, next season I think I'd like to drop the air pressure a bit and add a token to increase progressiveness. Maybe with that, I'd find the "trail" setting more useful on smoother trails.

How many riders out there are using the "trail" mode much? When on single track I'm in the "open" setting about 99% of the time.


----------



## DeanFBM (May 8, 2011)

With reference to this thread -

http://forums.mtbr.com/santa-cruz/reducing-pike-150-140-160-150-tech-thread-889096.html

Is it really possible to change the travel of the pikes with just the shaft assy?

I think you needed the whole spring kit?

Can people confirm? I'll go do some more digging.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

mastakilla said:


> I am a real basic end user and not have not mucked around with tuning my fork much. Just riding it and really liking it.
> 
> Are you guys running yours forks in open or pedal setting? I tried the pedal setting but it found it lost the plush feel.
> 
> Are most people running the air tokens? I have not tried that yet.


I'm in the fully open setting for all trail riding. Adding a token definitely makes a difference in the feel for the fork. It's super easy to do and worth checking out if you've got the inclination.



Miker J said:


> With that said, next season I think I'd like to drop the air pressure a bit and add a token to increase progressiveness. Maybe with that, I'd find the "trail" setting more useful on smoother trails.
> 
> How many riders out there are using the "trail" mode much? When on single track I'm in the "open" setting about 99% of the time.


I dropped pressure, added a third token (29er 140mm Solo), and that did indeed make it more progressive.... but that just further pointed me towards using the open setting all the time. 
It works for me, for now.


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

Yes,
All you need is the air piston, ~$45 part. Sram warrantied my 160mm Pike with a 150mm...they were out of the 160mm...just sent me a 150mm and 160 piston. 2 beer job...that easy. Here is an example RockShox Pike Air Shaft Solo Air 160mm Travel 26 or 150mm Travell 27.5 A1

Hope this helps.

Cheers, 


DeanFBM said:


> With reference to this thread -
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/santa-cruz/reducing-pike-150-140-160-150-tech-thread-889096.html
> 
> ...


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

jjkitt said:


> Yes,
> All you need is the air piston, ~$45 part. Sram warrantied my 160mm Pike with a 150mm...they were out of the 160mm...just sent me a 150mm and 160 piston. 2 beer job...that easy. Here is an example RockShox Pike Air Shaft Solo Air 160mm Travel 26 or 150mm Travell 27.5 A1
> 
> Hope this helps.
> ...


This is really, really excellent news. Thanks!!


----------



## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

I rode my back up bike today, which has a Lyrik 2 step (probably a 2007 or 2008). Anyway, it was night and day compared to my 2011 Revelation. Buttery smooth, tracking so well, and so confidence inspiring. Anyhow, as best as I can tell, the Pike seems pretty similar to the Lyrik. Now, the $1000 question: my bike is a 26" Carbine for now. Should I get the 27.5 version of the fork and use it with 26" wheels until I move up to 650b? How much taller is the 27.5 fork?


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

zorg said:


> I rode my back up bike today, which has a Lyrik 2 step (probably a 2007 or 2008). Anyway, it was night and day compared to my 2011 Revelation. Buttery smooth, tracking so well, and so confidence inspiring. Anyhow, as best as I can tell, the Pike seems pretty similar to the Lyrik. Now, the $1000 question: my bike is a 26" Carbine for now. Should I get the 27.5 version of the fork and use it with 26" wheels until I move up to 650b? How much taller is the 27.5 fork?


I'm gonna guess its in the neighborhood of .75" taller.


----------



## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

kragu said:


> I'm gonna guess its in the neighborhood of .75" taller.


Apparently, the a2c on the 26" 160mm is 542mm and 552mm on the 27.5". Of course, the trail may be different.


----------



## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

mastakilla said:


> I am a real basic end user and not have not mucked around with tuning my fork much. Just riding it and really liking it.
> 
> Are you guys running yours forks in open or pedal setting? I tried the pedal setting but it found it lost the plush feel.
> 
> Are most people running the air tokens? I have not tried that yet.


I have the 150 29er Pike with 51 mm offset , this fork comes with 1 token and it worked very good , I removed the token because I like the smooth plush linear feel , I run the fork in the open setting while on the trail , the compression is clicked all out , it just works so good there for any type of trail use for me , I run 75 psi in the air side.
I am 145 lbs necked on XL Yeti SB95C.

I use this as an AM bike , on some of the bigger drops and G-outs I will just not quite bottom the fork , I like to have 1/4 " left for when I screw myself.

When Im on the street riding home is when I will use the "Trail setting", depending if there are out of the saddle pedaling I will run it in the locked position , also I have my CTD rear shock in climb mode on the street also ,never in climb mode on the trail .

So I do use all the settings just not on trail :eekster:


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

half_man_half_scab said:


> Anyone know where to source the bleed syringe for the charger damper, or maybe just the fitting?


This. I don't even need the syringe - I have a spare Reverb bleed (not been used) for that, but just need the threaded adapter bits. I'd hoped it was going to be the same end as on the Avid and Reverb bleed bits, but no such luck.

If it came with my fork, oops - box is long gone...


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

mastakilla said:


> I am a real basic end user and not have not mucked around with tuning my fork much. Just riding it and really liking it.
> 
> Are you guys running yours forks in open or pedal setting? I tried the pedal setting but it found it lost the plush feel.
> 
> Are most people running the air tokens? I have not tried that yet.


I have a 150 29er 46mm rake non-adjust travel model. I run w/ 3 tokens in and very reduced air pressure to meet the need that the fork's initial movement be VERY sensitive to help me NOT get bounced off my line on steep and tech climbs. I'm 175 nekkid and at ~38 - 40 psi, I get 25% sag. I run mine fully opened w/ about 2 clicks of LSC in from full open for just about everywhere. I'll engage the "pedal" mode when the trail turns super steep and slow (reads as using a LOT of front brake), to keep the front end from augering into the dirt. Without going into the "pedal" mode, I don't bottom on your average trails (but still get ~95% of full travel), but will bottom on the steep tech/chunders. With the fork in "pedal" mode, I use about 80% of travel in the steep and slow chunks.

The bike it's on is a Tallboy LTc.


----------



## jimmybjj (Jan 25, 2013)

Silly question but is there a quick way to find out with offset fork you have? I ordered the pike 140 51 and just want to make sure verify I got the correct fork from the retailer before I leave town for a bit.


----------



## Nels (May 18, 2004)

look under the crown, It's cast there.


----------



## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

jimmybjj said:


> Silly question but is there a quick way to find out with offset fork you have? I ordered the pike 140 51 and just want to make sure verify I got the correct fork from the retailer before I leave town for a bit.


On the bottom of the crown there will be a cast in marking , it should be a 51 on it and another number below the 51 . ( this is for the 29er fork )

the 26 and 27.5 offset is marked differently from what I can tell . :eekster:


----------



## jimmybjj (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks for the info!


----------



## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Very happy to discover that all the branding on the pike are stickers, those things came off fast.

Got my 140mm 51mm offset in today


----------



## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

SManZ said:


> I think that because the new damper is a bladder it is bled until full of new oil. I'll look forward to RS posting service docs for this fork  For now I'm just gonna ride the hell out of mine.


SRAM has already posted the Pike service manual. I was eagerly awaiting its arrival as well. Problem is, you can't tear down your fork yet as they haven't released the bleed adapter. Looks like those will be arriving in February.


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

I think this has been posted already but here it is again... the link to the Pike service manual:

http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf

Interesting that in the solo air travel change adjustment table there are additional travel options listed. However, no part numbers listed:

26-120 mm
26-130 mm/27-120 mm
26-140 mm/27-130 mm

The shortest air shaft that's currently available is the following. Maybe the above air shafts will become available in Feb too.

26-150 mm/27-140 mm/29-120 mm (this is part# 11.4018.026.003)


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

Vegard said:


> Very happy to discover that all the branding on the pike are stickers, those things came off fast.
> 
> View attachment 851910


Looks good with the stealth/murdered out look. Might do that with mine considering I have a stealthy black SC Solo C frame.

How are you liking the Honzo btw?


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Does anyone else notice a harsh topout with the solo air when you pull up on the the bars? I only notice it on climbs when I'm really working the bars, or just the kitchen pre-ride test.


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

My pike2014 is less than 6 month old and has around a 100 hours of use.
Recently all drive (right) side stop responding to adjustment knobs, rebound, compression and also lock out, nothing not working any more.
I take the fork to service center and what we found was impressed me...
A Bladder is just blow-up, wow how it can heaped? and what about reliability of this shock? this issue not looking good IMHO.


----------



## renderedtoast (Dec 6, 2006)

No es bueno ^^


----------



## bicol_express (May 21, 2009)

kelstr said:


> The "Tokens" are only for the air volume change to alter progression in the "Solo Air" , the "Tokens" have nothing to do with travel change .
> 
> The "Solo Air" and the "DPA" both need different air shafts to correctly alter travel.
> 
> You could just buy the "Solo Air" 160 air side and be just fine


got it, thanks.


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

Anyone install the Pike themselves? I have a question regarding setting the crown race...

Park Tools has a couple of youtube videos illustrating how to prepare the fork and setting the crown race. They say to use the Crown Race Cutting Tool (CRC-1) to ream/face the fork crown to make a precise smooth surface for the crown race. Anyone done this with their Pike? Is it required for the Pike?

The CRC-1 is a $500 tool! The process also requires the CRS-15 Crown Race Setter which is a $80 tool. So am thinking that maybe I should just take the fork to my LBS to get the crown race set?


----------



## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

regularbob said:


> Anyone install the Pike themselves? I have a question regarding setting the crown race...
> 
> Park Tools has a couple of youtube videos illustrating how to prepare the fork and setting the crown race. They say to use the Crown Race Cutting Tool (CRC-1) to ream/face the fork crown to make a precise smooth surface for the crown race. Anyone done this with their Pike? Is it required for the Pike?
> 
> The CRC-1 is a $500 tool! The process also requires the CRS-15 Crown Race Setter which is a $80 tool. So am thinking that maybe I should just take the fork to my LBS to get the crown race set?


I just bought a $2 piece of PVC pipe from my local hardware store; and used that to set the crown race. Took about 30 seconds. just make sure it is the right diameter to fit over the race.


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

expatrider said:


> I just bought a $2 piece of PVC pipe from my local hardware store; and used that to set the crown race. Took about 30 seconds. just make sure it is the right diameter to fit over the race.


And did you machine/face the fork's crown race seat? Haven't inspected mine yet so not sure how flush it comes.


----------



## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

regularbob said:


> And did you machine/face the fork's crown race seat? Haven't inspected mine yet so not sure how flush it comes.


no.


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

expatrider said:


> no.


Thanks, so it's probably not required. Makes things easier and cheaper for me.


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

vadimn said:


> My pike2014 is less than 6 month old and has around a 100 hours of use.


Ouch, this had been a fairly common problem with forks using bladder compensators in the past, but this is the first Pike I've seen suffer a burst. Contact Rockshox for warranty, 100 hours is well bellow the claimed lifespan for one of those.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

expatrider said:


> I just bought a $2 piece of PVC pipe from my local hardware store; and used that to set the crown race. Took about 30 seconds. just make sure it is the right diameter to fit over the race.


I can confirm that this works great.


----------



## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

regularbob said:


> Looks good with the stealth/murdered out look. Might do that with mine considering I have a stealthy black SC Solo C frame.
> 
> How are you liking the Honzo btw?


On an all black bike it would look even better :thumbsup:
With the gold and orange on my frame all the stickers on the fork just looked wrong.

Haven't ridden it yet, it's a winter project of mine and I still need the wheels and crank


----------



## tene (Jun 11, 2009)

vadimn, could you tell temperature when this happened?
Rockshox and fox are famous for using crappy rubber which fails in cold weather.


----------



## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

vadimn said:


> My pike2014 is less than 6 month old and has around a 100 hours of use.
> Recently all drive (right) side stop responding to adjustment knobs, rebound, compression and also lock out, nothing not working any more.
> I take the fork to service center and what we found was impressed me...
> A Bladder is just blow-up, wow how it can heaped? and what about reliability of this shock? this issue not looking good IMHO.
> View attachment 851935


RockShox said their new bladder design couldn't burst. Either it was overfilled from the start, or it ingested bath oil through the shaft seal. Once the damper is overfilled, it bursts on a hard compression. Happens to Fox Fit cartridges, too.


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

tene, its summer temperature, approx +25C or more...


----------



## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

Any o-ring supplier at any level uses nitrile rubber from various sources and will always exhibit a certain amount of variability in the field. You really can't expect the bladder or any o-ring/quad seal to be perfect all the time from every batch. There is a variety of outcomes when you expose seals from identical batches to different suspension fluids. No dynamic test can ensure a 100% success rate with these critical and highly engineered products. Failure happens. It's not anyone's fault, it's just life. What matters is how any company deals with the failure and how often it happens.

Perfection is never attained but should always be the goal.

mk


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

regularbob said:


> And did you machine/face the fork's crown race seat? Haven't inspected mine yet so not sure how flush it comes.


You're talking about facing the crown seat? That's pretty overkill! Most of the crowns are either cast (w/ a tooled mold, meaning it's accurate) or is CNC machined...so pretty accurate already. So no real need to face it.

You'd face a BB and HT because during the heat treat, welding, or curing process, things may have gone out of whack. You then chase and face these surfaces to ensure alignment. But a crown is typically pressed in using a temp gradient...cold steerer and hot crown. There's a name for this process and I can't recall what it is off the top of my head. When the thing is already pretty accurate to start with and then you use a machine to ensure alignment, chances are it's good to go.

I used a pvc and my carpet'd floor to set my crown race.


----------



## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

What kind of air pressure is everyone running in comparison to the chart on the Solo Air? I had mine set at about 50psi to get proper sag (at least what I thought was proper) where for my weight it recommends about 65-70 psi. Does the chart seem to be high for you all, or did I just set it up poorly?

-Brett


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

Pau11y said:


> You're talking about facing the crown seat? That's pretty overkill! Most of the crowns are either cast (w/ a tooled mold, meaning it's accurate) or is CNC machined...so pretty accurate already. So no real need to face it.
> 
> You'd face a BB and HT because during the heat treat, welding, or curing process, things may have gone out of whack. You then chase and face these surfaces to ensure alignment. But a crown is typically pressed in using a temp gradient...cold steerer and hot crown. There's a name for this process and I can't recall what it is off the top of my head. When the thing is already pretty accurate to start with and then you use a machine to ensure alignment, chances are it's good to go.
> 
> I used a pvc and my carpet'd floor to set my crown race.


Thanks, that was exactly the info I was hoping for. Now to figure out how much steerer tube to cut. I'm thinking that leaving enough length for a 2.5mm spacer, the stem and then another 2.5mm spacer is conservative enough to allow for some future customization to the cockpit. Or should I do 3x 2.5mm spacers, one underneath the stem and two and top? 
***


----------



## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

I would say leave as much as you can live with simply for resale purposes. If you can leave the steerer around 8" long then you can sell the fork to almost anyone. The shorter you go from there you start to limit potential buyers.


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

Which star nut setter tool should I use for the Pike? The Park Tool TNS-1 for 1" and 1-1/8" steerers or the Park Tool TNS-15 for 1¼" and 1.5" steerers? 

I am thinking TNS-1 but just want to confirm since the whole tapered steerer is throwing me off.


----------



## White Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

regularbob said:


> Which star nut setter tool should I use for the Pike? The Park Tool TNS-1 for 1" and 1-1/8" steerers or the Park Tool TNS-15 for 1¼" and 1.5" steerers?
> 
> I am thinking TNS-1 but just want to confirm since the whole tapered steerer is throwing me off.


It doesn't matter, since the top of tapered is 1-1/8".


----------



## erlau (Apr 4, 2007)

TNS-1 is what you need, TNS-15 wont fit.

Also, it is only about 30 sec of work to set the start nut so your local shop would probably do it for a couple bucks or some beer while you wait.


----------



## fuenstock (May 14, 2006)

kan3 said:


> I would say leave as much as you can live with simply for resale purposes.


 This^^^
I am always selling and changing parts. I leave the steerer as long as possible without looking ridiculous. The longer the steerer tube the easier it will be to resale. I currently have my stem slammed with around 18mm of spacers ontop of stem.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Bought a 150mm Pike to replace my 2014 Talas 34, cannot wait to see if it lives up the the hype!


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Rick Draper: what didn't you like about the Talas? I hear that the 2014 is much improved. 

Jon


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

jon123 said:


> Rick Draper: what didn't you like about the Talas? I hear that the 2014 is much improved.
> 
> Jon


Don't get me wrong its a very nice fork but from everyone I have spoken to the Charge damper is a better damper than the CTD setup.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

My new Pike is waiting for me when I get home. Think I will strip the lowers off it as I would a Fox to see what lube is inside before I use it.

Does anyone have a starting point on a 150mm, 650b fork on a Bronson for a 185lb rider with regards tokens?


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

I have 160mm Pike 650B fork. I like having more token the better for plushness. Came with two tokens and installed both after running it without any. If I have third token I would install it too. I found that I have to run 10psi less when running two tokens vs. no token to obtain same 20-25% static sag. FYI, I weigh 165lbs with wet camebak and running 47psi with two tokens.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

SingleTrackHound said:


> I have 160mm Pike 650B fork. I like having more token the better for plushness. Came with two tokens and installed both after running it without any. If I have third token I would install it too. I found that I have to run 10psi less when running two tokens vs. no token to obtain same 20-25% static sag. FYI, I weigh 165lbs with wet camebak and running 47psi with two tokens.


What's your LSC setting? Do you find it dives too easy on slow speed techy stuff?


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Keep in mind most suggesting the tokens are on the 29'r version which has a larger air chamber to begin with (thus they come with one installed already). The way I was reading this thread was that I'd need tokens for sure... NOT! I found riding the way STH does (2 tokens, low air pressure) the fork rode like absolute garbage when pushed at full on DH speeds over chunk and jumps. What happens is you blow thru most of the travel too easily and then the fork ramps up hard at end of travel for a really harsh ride. I tried dialing in all the LSC which helped some but there still was fork dive unless you put in trail mode (which is where I had to leave it for any semblance of damping). If you go back about 5 pages or so, another DH'r had the same experience. For me I'm way better off with more air pressure and no tokens which provides a good linear rate and support over chunk at high speeds. Small bump sensitivity goes down some but I'm good with that!
So Rick... I would try 75 psi with no tokens and the LSC in the middle at 6 clicks = money.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## SingleTrackHound (Jul 29, 2003)

Kragu, I run three to four clicks in from full open on LSC.

My experience is that fork felt too stiff and could not use full travel without token when 25% sag was set @55psi. With tokens fork became plusher and used more travel. I have not ran my Pike at pure DH trails but rode at TWE trail in Moab and Little Creek trail in Hurricane with a lots of drops and super steep rollers.


----------



## Craw (Feb 10, 2004)

@rickdraper, I'm in the same boat as you, although I'm around 170lbs geared up. I just put on my Pike last night, on my Bronson and took it out for a set up ride this morning before work. Initial thoughts are that the overall ride was great. A lot smoother than the fox but I do think the action is too linear for me. Tonight I'm going to add in 1 token and see how that feels. Unfortunately, won't know til I can get back on the trail. Maybe Friday or Sat. 

I'll let you know how the 1 token feels for me. Currently I'm running about 70psi for around 28% sag.


----------



## downhill502 (Feb 22, 2012)

I agree with Gman. I think tokens are necessary for big fellas but for going full on the Pike is much more composed with no tokens. Also running 6 clicks of lsc at 55psi. I am 167lbs. For slower speed roots,drops and rollers the fork is a little more compliant with the tokens with a little lower pressure but when the speed picks up things change quickly and I found it was much more harsh, with the tokens, due to blowing through the midstroke and using to much of the travel. Please keep in mind, everyone rides differently and has different preferences for there suspension, also bike setup has a lot to do with it ie head angle, rear sag and cockpit setup. Happy riding


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

I've got the 29er 140mm version. For this one, RockShox actually recommends two tokens. I experimented with three and one for a while, but two has been the money spot for me on progressivity vs linear. 
It's really easy to add or subtract one. It's also very noticeable right away when you switch it up. And, yes, the fewer the tokens, the more PSI you'll need.


----------



## rehammer81 (Jun 18, 2010)

I agree with what others are saying here. I have the 650b 160 solo air and found with two tokens and the lower pressure the fork dove through most of its travel too easily on techy rock step downs and slower drops. O-ring was always maxed out right away. With no tokens and a bit more pressure it does lose a slight bit of compliance over the small chatter but is much more composed overall through the full length of travel. It takes a proper big hit to use that last fourth or fifth of travel but still feels very smooth and controlled on the trail. I dig it. I'm at 70psi for between 25% - 28% sag weighing ride ready at 175lbs.


----------



## filbike (Mar 15, 2007)

hi community,
is anybody using a 2014 PIKE DPA?
any issues reported or heard so far with travel reducer or fork behaviour differences to solo air version ?


----------



## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

I just received my 140mm solo air for my tallboy LTC. The online seller originally shipped me a 26inch 150mm by mistake. They did rectify by shipping the replacement via two day air. Looking forward to getting it set up this weekend. Just need to find some dry trails as the snow melt in the Northeast is wreaking havoc on the trails.


----------



## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

*Mikes Pike*

freshh on, now @75psi, 1 token, 5clics of LSC, 8ish of rebound 
had 3runs now, loove the small bump performance. Total fascination 






PIKE from ahim regaj on Vimeo.


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

how much do you weigh, m789?


----------



## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

roundish 190 lbs all geared up


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Is that a 29'r Enduro m789? Keep in mind peeps the 29'r version has more volume and needs the token - there needs to be two threads for the Pike (26/650b and 29'r)!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

I got my Pike but sadly they have a 2cm scratch on the lowers so I am returning them for a exchange. Gutted as when i whipped them out of the packaging and gave them a quick push down they felt very smooth.


----------



## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

It's Stumpjumper 29. 
Mine came with 1 preinstalled (i believe all 29ners come like that- at least the aftermarket ones), but i will add another and lower the psi a bit...


----------



## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

damn, like already getting the ice cream and bang someone snatches it 
...at least it's past/too early for "bike season" so time without won't last so loong


----------



## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

I read this whole thread yesterday and couldn't find the answer to the question below, my apologies if it's listed elsewhere or I just missed it:

What are the differences between an OEM pike internals and an aftermarket version?

I'm in the market for a new bike and the pike would be the very first upgrade I'd make, my only concern is what would I be missing out on by buying a 'take off' or whatever. 

More specifically, I THINK it's the RTC3 damper but what else is like fox where the 'Evolution' models have less adjustments / lower build quality.

TIA


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

As far as anyone's aware, all Pike's are the same internally, regardless of being OEM or aftermarket. They certainly don't remove the RCT3 damper at all. The only thing you miss out on would be the tokens on an OEM model.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Kiwiplague said:


> As far as anyone's aware, all Pike's are the same internally, regardless of being OEM or aftermarket. They certainly don't remove the RCT3 damper at all. The only thing you miss out on would be the tokens on an OEM model.


Even that - my friend bought a Bronson with a Pike and it came with replacement seals and two tokens.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Kiwi, my OEM came with a token installed, and an extra token in the bag with the manual.


----------



## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

Interesting, over heard a shop monkey the other day saying the damper was different in the OEM vs. the aftermarket.

Shitty if he was just trying to sell a 'new' fork.

Next time I'll have to call them out on that.


----------



## SFBMRC (Oct 29, 2006)

probiscus said:


> Interesting, over heard a shop monkey the other day saying the damper was different in the OEM vs. the aftermarket.
> 
> Shitty if he was just trying to sell a 'new' fork.
> 
> Next time I'll have to call them out on that.


There are differences. I just rode with my friend who has a new Stumpjumper EVO and his damper control did not have the three distinct clicks that the aftermarket forks come with. His damper had about 10 clicks that let you dial ïn between" settings. OEMs always seem to get some other spec.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

SFBMRC said:


> There are differences. I just rode with my friend who has a new Stumpjumper EVO and his damper control did not have the three distinct clicks that the aftermarket forks come with. His damper had about 10 clicks that let you dial ïn between" settings. OEMs always seem to get some other spec.


http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf

There's the RCT3 and RC models. The RC is OEM only. As far as I can tell, the only difference is it lacks the three position control. It still has the low speed compression adjustment. I don't use the three position switch at all on my RCT3. I ride it wide open all the time with some LSC as needed.


----------



## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

Page 20+ of this PDF - referring to servicing of the charger damper
http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf

Shows 2 different 'damper' configurations; "RCT3" and "RC only"

Page 36 would appear to show a LSC adjustment knob unique to the RCT3 iteration.

Sigh.

[e] Hillharman beat me to the punch


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

probiscus said:


> Page 20+ of this PDF - referring to servicing of the charger damper
> http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf
> 
> Shows 2 different 'damper' configurations; "RCT3" and "RC only"
> ...


I think they both have LSC. It's the three position damping adjust that is gone from the RC. The exploded views seem to confirm this.

Edit: The knobs are misleading. The schematic shows they both have the same low speed compression needle, but on the RC, it's controlled by a large knob.


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

It's so classy how rockshox includes a seal kit with their products!


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

half_man_half_scab said:


> It's so classy how rockshox includes a seal kit with their products!


And a pump.


----------



## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

Got a 160 solo air for my Bronson. Running one token and 70psi with 3 clicks of LSC. About 170lbs geared to ride and just over 20% sag.


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

hillharman said:


> http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf
> 
> There's the RCT3 and RC models. The RC is OEM only.


Whoops, I forgot about the RC models. That's what happens when you stay up waaaay to late to think straight and try to post!


----------



## filbike (Mar 15, 2007)

Any user of a DPA model can report how it behaves so far?


----------



## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

hillharman said:


> I think they both have LSC. It's the three position damping adjust that is gone from the RC. The exploded views seem to confirm this.
> 
> Edit: The knobs are misleading. The schematic shows they both have the same low speed compression needle, but on the RC, it's controlled by a large knob.


I can confirm this. My bike came with the RC model. The big nob on the RC model controls the LSC and as stated has about 10 clicks of adjustment. The RC lacks the 3 position control, but I wouldn't use that anyway more than likely..

-Brett


----------



## timmyt (Apr 1, 2013)

Mine came with some tokens, a pump and seals. 

Unfortunately there a problem with mine, just wondering if it's major?. There's about 5mm of vertical play with the fork fully extended, so when stationary and you pull up on the bars you can feel it clunking up and down slightly, also slightly when descending. If I turn the rebound about 17 clicks this goes away. Fork seems to work great, but I know this isn't right either :-(


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

I get a harsher topout as well, but I don't feel it on the descents. Only in the parking lot and on climbs where I'm really on and off the bars. It was this way out of the box.


----------



## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

The top out is part of the design. If you check back through the thrad you'll find it mentioned a few times. My 160 does this as well. It's part of the + - air chambers equalizing or whatever to that effect.


----------



## timmyt (Apr 1, 2013)

Many thanks for the help, I kept looking for 'play' I can see the comments around top out, make sense now.


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

Is everyone replacing their crush washers after they remove their lowers? The manual doesn't say which size washer, but can anyone confirm what size they are?

Also, I run the my fork at about 25 psi, no tokens at about 23-25% sag in the attack position. I weigh about 130 lbs. Sounds freakishly low, but I haven't bottomed out harshly yet. I think my shock pump gauge is just off.

In response to someones comment regarding the action in pedal mode, my fork almost feels locked out in this position, so I only use this to climb. Not sure if theres an issue with it.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Anyone gone into the shim stack yet? If yes, any specific insight(s), documentation on how to get there, etc? TIA


----------



## Esben (Jan 12, 2004)

After two months the RCT3 function of my Pike 27.5/150mm isn't doing its job properly. The fork is almost full open all the time. My guess is, that there is too little oil in the damper, but how do I service this closed damper unit?

Edit: I'll try to bleed the bladder system using some of the steps in this guide: http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf


----------



## timmyt (Apr 1, 2013)

Manuals here, need tools, oil, and more skills than me http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## timmyt (Apr 1, 2013)

url looked suspect http://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/pike-rct3#service

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

timmyt said:


> Manuals here, need tools, oil, and more skills than me http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


Yeah, me too, unfortunately. I'd really like to do it myself. 
Although I like my LBS, I don't think they've serviced a Pike yet... don't really want mine to be their first. And, don't know if I can trust that they'd follow all the steps in the 42 page service manual...


----------



## SFBMRC (Oct 29, 2006)

mikodipo said:


> Is everyone replacing their crush washers after they remove their lowers? The manual doesn't say which size washer, but can anyone confirm what size they are?


You are supposed to replace the crush washers on both sides when you remove and reinstall the lowers. I've talked to many that just reuse them without any incident. I just went ahead and spent $20 on a 50 pack of washers and retainers. Figured better safe than sorry. I believe the spare parts kit that comes with the (aftermarket) fork includes a few washers. They are the 8mm type. Part # 11.4015.259.000.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Oh hey...
If someone already pointed this out, my bad. But, if you take a look at pages 14 - 18 in the service manual, you can see how to reduce the travel by slipping on spacers.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> Oh hey...
> If someone already pointed this out, my bad. But, if you take a look at pages 14 - 18 in the service manual, you can see how to reduce the travel by slipping on spacers.


No it does not as you cannot lower it with spacers.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Rick Draper said:


> No it does not as you cannot lower it with spacers.


Okay... 

The reason I'm saying the pics suggest that it _might_ be doable is this pic of the SA air piston...and how the dual position side's topout bumper is arranged. But I don't know if that is one solid piece to the SA Seal Head, or if that thing in the red box that looks like a spacer _is_ a spacer:









BUT, I haven't been in one yet...just waiting for RS to release their Charger cart bleed nipple. Oh, btw, ETA on those is ~ mid Feb.


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

SFBMRC said:


> You are supposed to replace the crush washers on both sides when you remove and reinstall the lowers. I've talked to many that just reuse them without any incident. I just went ahead and spent $20 on a 50 pack of washers and retainers. Figured better safe than sorry. I believe the spare parts kit that comes with the (aftermarket) fork includes a few washers. They are the 8mm type. Part # 11.4015.259.000.


Awesome! Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> Okay...
> 
> The reason I'm saying the pics suggest that it _might_ be doable is this pic of the SA air piston...and how the dual position side's topout bumper is arranged. But I don't know if that is one solid piece to the SA Seal Head, or if that thing in the red box that looks like a spacer _is_ a spacer:
> 
> ...


Here is a link to a picture of why you cannot lover it with spacers:
https://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/news/2012/04/20/1334895084698-1uj5zjhxyekq7-670-80.jpg


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> Okay...
> 
> The reason I'm saying the pics suggest that it _might_ be doable is this pic of the SA air piston...and how the dual position side's topout bumper is arranged. But I don't know if that is one solid piece to the SA Seal Head, or if that thing in the red box that looks like a spacer _is_ a spacer:
> 
> ...


So... the retainer clip keeps the piston and seal head from coming out of the upper tube assembly, but does that mean i can push the seal head into the shaft with the ring in place? Or does it stay put? Also, do the backup ring and wave spring float around in the shaft when the piston is cycling?

Sorry for the ignorance, but i have yet to take my fork apart to convert it to 150mm.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Pau11y said:


> Okay...
> 
> The reason I'm saying the pics suggest that it _might_ be doable is this pic of the SA air piston...and how the dual position side's topout bumper is arranged. But I don't know if that is one solid piece to the SA Seal Head, or if that thing in the red box that looks like a spacer _is_ a spacer:
> 
> ...


What you circled is the sealhead, not a spacer. *You CAN'T lower a Pike with spacers.*


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

mikodipo said:


> So... the retainer clip keeps the piston and seal head from coming out of the upper tube assembly, but does that mean i can push the seal head into the shaft with the ring in place? Or does it stay put? Also, do the backup ring and wave spring float around in the shaft when the piston is cycling?
> 
> Sorry for the ignorance, but i have yet to take my fork apart to convert it to 150mm.


The SA seal head and retaining ring will remain static in the bottom of the stanchion. The topout bumper will typically be held to the bottom of the piston head. I have NO idea why that wave spring is in there, or the purpose of the backup ring.

From past experience w/ Fox Floats, that thing that resembles the spacer...in the red box...is where you'd slip in spacers to reduce travel (in a Fox). And, since the SA seal head can be slipped off the piston rod to replace the seal/o-ring inside that seal head (see the pics in the service manual...I think my link is broken, but others have posted working ones), I don't see what else that thing could be except a spacer. AND, from the pics in the service manual, it seems, at leas in the dual position air sa seal head, that part isn't an attached part (to the seal head).

Oh well, more to come, once I get the bleed nipple and able to fully break down the fork.

BTW, RS customer service won't even answer if you ask if the compression shim stack can be disassembled.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Rick Draper said:


> Here is a link to a picture of why you cannot lover it with spacers:
> https://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/news/2012/04/20/1334895084698-1uj5zjhxyekq7-670-80.jpg


Okay, gotcha...equalizes + air chamber and - chamber. I'm guessing that's where the Pike is so much more smoother than the Fox...


----------



## SFBMRC (Oct 29, 2006)

1) Pike can only be lowered with the right air shaft length. Look up my posts on cutting down an air shaft. I did my own homework and posted it for the masses. As I stated earlier either in this post or another... its easier to cut down an air shaft or buy the right one than to fiddle around making one to the right size and spec. 

2) Charger bleed adapters are available from SRAM. I got one two weeks ago. No problem.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

SFBMRC said:


> 2) Charger bleed adapters are available from SRAM. I got one two weeks ago. No problem.


Thanks for this heads up!


----------



## Tuff Wheels (Dec 3, 2013)

Hi Guys - family just got me a enduro 29er for Christmas, came with the Pike solo air. Based on this thread and flipping thru manual looks like our adjustments are:

1) air pressure (soft or firm)
2) low speed adjuster knob (?)...not sure what it's for
3) rebound adjuster on bottom fork

I weigh about 225lbs with gear and have 105psi in fork. How many clicks are you doing for items 2 and 3 above?


----------



## tene (Jun 11, 2009)

Does charger bleed adapter differ from reverb's or totem speed lube?


----------



## Esben (Jan 12, 2004)

Esben said:


> After two months the RCT3 function of my Pike 27.5/150mm isn't doing its job properly. The fork is almost full open all the time. My guess is, that there is too little oil in the damper, but how do I service this closed damper unit?
> 
> Edit: I'll try to bleed the bladder system using some of the steps in this guide: http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf


I've just done the bleeding without the bleeding tool. I haven't received it yet so I had to try without and it is possible with a little patience. With a syringe it is possible to put a little amount of 3wt suspension oil in the hole, where the bleed tool are supposed to be thread in. When the fork is compressed the air bobbles escapes the bladder and the oil are off cause sucked down into the damper afterwards. The tricky thing is to have enough oil so no air is sucked in. 
It is off cause not as good as having the right tool, but the damping is much better now and the lock out is working again.


----------



## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

Tuff Wheels said:


> Hi Guys - family just got me a enduro 29er for Christmas, came with the Pike solo air. Based on this thread and flipping thru manual looks like our adjustments are:
> 
> 1) air pressure (soft or firm)
> 2) low speed adjuster knob (?)...not sure what it's for
> ...


Nice present! 
1. The air pressure you set by looking at sag. It is marked on the stanchions. You want between 25-30% sag. This adjustment is not for a softer or firmer ride. Use the chart on the fork leg for air pressure and go from there.
2.low speed adjustment will make it a softer or harsher ride. Set it to a setting the feels best to you over the terrain you will ride.
3. rebound, again set it to how you like it. Fast enough where it will recover from compressing, but not too fast where it is a pogo stick.

-Brett


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Tuff Wheels said:


> Hi Guys - family just got me a enduro 29er for Christmas, came with the Pike solo air. Based on this thread and flipping thru manual looks like our adjustments are:
> 
> 1) air pressure (soft or firm)
> 2) low speed adjuster knob (?)...not sure what it's for
> ...


I find if I'm really pushing it downhill at the ski resort, I need to use a good amount of low-speed compression damping to keep the fork from diving and so it doesn't blow through travel on big jumps, so it's ready/able to absorb the next hit, rather than being deep in the travel. So there I usually run it around 1/2 closed. On climbs I'll usually leave it wide open for max absorption of terrain (helps keep the front end planted on the climb) and in between I'll usually run a few clicks.

Rebound is up to you, it can run a decent amount without packing up due to the 'rapid recovery' shimmed rebound setup, but too much can still feel "dead", you probably need at least 7-8 clicks at that weight, and then go up from there, I'd estimate 10-12.

As far as tokens, run more for a more "progressive" feel that will mean lower pressure, more sag, fork being deeper into the travel. Run less to make it more linear, which means more pressure, fork rides higher, less reactive to the small bumps.


----------



## SFBMRC (Oct 29, 2006)

tene said:


> Does charger bleed adapter differ from reverb's or totem speed lube?


The bleed kit is the same as the totem but you need the Charger adapter.

This is what SRAM sent me a few weeks ago. The adapter is in the top left. It came with its own bag.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

SFBMRC said:


> You are supposed to replace the crush washers on both sides when you remove and reinstall the lowers. I've talked to many that just reuse them without any incident. I just went ahead and spent $20 on a 50 pack of washers and retainers. Figured better safe than sorry. I believe the spare parts kit that comes with the (aftermarket) fork includes a few washers. They are the 8mm type. Part # 11.4015.259.000.


I really need to stop skimming through these posts. Just saw your mention of crush washers in the spare parts kit included in aftermarket forks. Checked mine and you're correct; theres spare washers in there.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

So how are some of you guys feeling overall about the quality control/reliabilty on the pike???

This was going to be my go to fork (150mm 26") for my trail bike next season, but after a lot of reading today...now I'm skeered. It seems most of the barely used one's for sale on pinkbike it's obvious the seller had issues with the cartridge as they mention as much & you can tell they opened it up from the pics. Same goes for the used one's on ebay & one seller is even selling it with the bleed adapter. Couple that with 3 or so blown bladders I've come across and my size of 220#'s+ and well not very confidence inspiring. 

Would happily space down a 160 vanilla or lyric but it seems the vanilla is only 180mm anymore and likewise with the 170 lyric. I know I added absolutely nothing to the thread but looking for input none the less.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Well, I haven't seen many issues to be honest and I wouldn't hesitate to get one.

I got to do a full tear down and rebuild of a Charger damper in a SRAM Tuner seminar and I felt the damper was pretty well built and the bladder was pretty thick compared to the Fox bladder (if that helps).


----------



## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> So how are some of you guys feeling overall about the quality control/reliabilty on the pike???.


If you take the time to read the thread you will find all people contributing to it are very happy with the PIKE, including me. Loads of techie info as well.

The performance is just amazing and well, I personally have't had any issues with them and the more I ride them, the more I love them. Can't wait for the BOXXERS to have the charger damper system so I can upgrade the fork on my DH rig too.

You can certainly expect issues with suspension specially if is so new. There is also a high demand for them and SRAM trying to keep up with it so finding a handful of them on the internet with issues wouldn't worry me at all. Plus if yo buy new, you will have the warranty.

This to me (IMO) is hands down the best piece of suspension I've ever tried.


----------



## 11highlights (Feb 16, 2012)

This sounds like its a one off but my pike has lost both rebound and compression damping and the 3 pos. dial does nothing either. Its going to get serviced this Friday so we'll see what comes of it.

Interestingly the same thing happened to my previous fox float, it lost all rebound damping and was replaced under warranty.

Also, when I first got the fork I had to pull the piston out to release negative pressure to obtain the extra 15mm to get full travel.

Edit: But before it started playing up it was an awesome fork, silky smooth and tracked well through big hits and fast chunder.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

That is most likely a tear/puncture/hole in the bladder.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

iguanabartola said:


> If you take the time to read the thread you will find all people contributing to it are very happy with the PIKE, including me. Loads of techie info as well.
> 
> The performance is just amazing and well, I personally have't had any issues with them and the more I ride them, the more I love them. Can't wait for the BOXXERS to have the charger damper system so I can upgrade the fork on my DH rig too.
> 
> ...


I did "take the time to read the thread"...hence my concern.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Jayem said:


> That is most likely a tear/puncture/hole in the bladder.


That is a valid point. I have read of 3 others rupturing their bladder on the interwebs though. Who knows...... maybe they are all the same guy or end user inflicted.


----------



## howard619 (Jan 3, 2011)

I have a 27.5 150 Pike. Does anyone know if it can take a 26 upper stanchion? I would want to do this to reduce the offset to 40mm.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

hillharman said:


> http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf
> 
> There's the RCT3 and RC models. The RC is OEM only. As far as I can tell, the only difference is it lacks the three position control. It still has the low speed compression adjustment. I don't use the three position switch at all on my RCT3. I ride it wide open all the time with some LSC as needed.


Yep, as far as the RS website looks. The RC as OEM still sounds pretty cool - would be a good option for "set it and forget it types" at least. I'd not pass one up if it came with a smoking enough price.

I ride the same way. Have monkeyed about with the settings, but after having found the sweet spot for my riding in general in the fully open setting, it just stays that way. I do tweek the LSC knob now and again, but that's it.

At this point, I only use the other settings if hitting a long enough stretch of gravel or pavement.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Pau11y said:


> ...just waiting for RS to release their Charger cart bleed nipple. Oh, btw, ETA on those is ~ mid Feb.


This. I tore into mine a few months ago, not realizing it was a totally different threading. Did the best I could with a spare Avid bleed kit, and it's been working fine since, but really want to pick one of those things up.

Also thinking to grab a spare air shaft kit to play with. Thinking to cut it down and re-thread to create a 140mm 26" fork. Hopefully should only entail a good clean cut, and making sure I've got the right tap on hand.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

scrublover said:


> This. I tore into mine a few months ago, not realizing it was a totally different threading. Did the best I could with a spare Avid bleed kit, and it's been working fine since, but really want to pick one of those things up.
> 
> Also thinking to grab a spare air shaft kit to play with. Thinking to cut it down and re-thread to create a 140mm 26" fork. Hopefully should only entail a good clean cut, and making sure I've got the right tap on hand.


Hey scrublover,
can you help me understand some of the problems you guys are having. So did your cartridge lose oil? Was there air in it from the factory or just low fluid from the factory?


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> Hey scrublover,
> can you help me understand some of the problems you guys are having. So did your cartridge lose oil? Was there air in it from the factory or just low fluid from the factory?


No problem at all, just wanted to do a bleed, mess about with the fork a bit. I'd ridden on it a good bit, figured it would be good to do an oil change and see how things looked inside. I'd say that is the same for a lot of us in this thread.

There really aren't many in this thread who've had any problems, and most have been easy fixes with tuning. The ones that haven't been easy tuning fixes appear to have been handled fairly quickly by SRAM/RS.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

650b pike RCT3 150mm.
1860g without a skewer. 
1930 with the skewer.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk


----------



## Starkhünd (Dec 13, 2013)

The best 160 mm or 170 mm option is a Lyric with an Avalanche cartridge kit installed. Coil or solo air. The Lyric apparently will fit 27.5. The Pike is an upgraded Lyric that fits 27.5 and 29. Phone Ava they are a wealth of knowledge and know there stuff.


----------



## dansMTB (Aug 12, 2004)

I just got my pike, in initial check-out I found the rebound knob was stuck(wouldn't move in either direction). I went through the Rockshox doc and a bunch of threads but didn't see anything like what I was experiencing. I loosened the set screw on the rebound knob about .25 turn, and now the know adjusts through 20 clicks as expected. The set screw must have just been a little tight fro the factory. Posting here in case anyone else ends up in the same boat.


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

Just curious if anyone else has had a hard time with removing and reinstalling the air spring top cap and with stripping the top cap?

I recently changed the air shaft on my 27.5 Pike to lower the travel to 140mm and I found that I stripped the top cap a little when I was tightening it to the specified 28 Nm. It's not severely stripped, as in I should still be able to remove it. But it will definitely need replacing the next time I remove it.

I was using a standard 24mm socket wrench and the biggest problem is that a standard socket has 2 or so mm of rounded edge before the actual traction, so the socket doesn't sit completely flush with the top cap when it's near it's tightness. I think the socket would be more effective if I could machine down 2-3mm of the face of the socket.*

So the question is what are you guys using? Is there some specific type of socket that I should be using? Or has anyone machined the face of a standard 24mm socket? And presumably, I would have the same problem with the 30mm on the charger damper side?


----------



## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

^^^any hardware shop should be able to grind down the rounded bit of the socket to get it to seat flush. same deal with my Lyrik and Revelation, once you have a flush socket it's a non-issue. dont have a Pike yet so can't comment on the damper side but sounds like it'd be the same based on your post.


----------



## fuenstock (May 14, 2006)

regularbob said:


> Just curious if anyone else has had a hard time with removing and reinstalling the air spring top cap and with stripping the top cap?


 I use a ground down socket, works great.


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

I just bought a 24mm wrench. Takes a little longer to remove and install the top cap, but it doesn't strip the top cap.. For the larger stuff (25mm and greater), I use an adjustable wrench.


----------



## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

I took a socket and ground it down on the cement in my driveway by hand. Works great and only took me a few minutes.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

regularbob said:


> I was using a standard 24mm socket wrench and the biggest problem is that a standard socket has 2 or so mm of rounded edge before the actual traction, so the socket doesn't sit completely flush with the top cap when it's near it's tightness. I think the socket would be more effective if I could machine down 2-3mm of the face of the socket.*
> 
> So the question is what are you guys using? Is there some specific type of socket that I should be using? Or has anyone machined the face of a standard 24mm socket? And presumably, I would have the same problem with the 30mm on the charger damper side?


Get hold of a 24mm six sided socket and grind that down, thats the best one to use.


----------



## Nels (May 18, 2004)

These work great!

Lunar Bike Tools


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

Nels said:


> These work great!
> 
> Lunar Bike Tools


+1 I have a set...concur...cheap and work great.

Cheers,


----------



## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

Great suggestions on here on the tools , I machine down all my six point sockets for the bicycle stuff, ( Rick Draper is correct , never use a 12 point ever ).

I also find that my 15/16th six point socket machined down fits tighter than my 24 mm 6 point does, I generally use 15/16 , 1" , 1 1/16 english sizes seem to fit better in some cases .

And being very carful when applying pressure for removal , I always take alot of time a see which socket size will fit the best , sometimes I will chuck the socket right back in the lathe and take a quick facing cut to have a fresh flat edge to grab tighter and I will never slip on one at all.

I get a lot of suspension that has been butched and ruined the last time it was serviced and many times i will need to make up a really tight fitting socket / wrench in order to remove the caps.

Also theses top nut assemblies do not need to be very tight at all , I just snug these down , no need to get these ver tight at all .


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks guys for the recommendations/tips, all very good information. I think I'll order a 24mm wrench from Lunar tools since they're not expensive and they are purpose specific tools. 

I emailed Lunar tools about a 30mm wrench for the charger damper and Glenn replied saying that they will be running another batch this month and could include the 30mm in the run. I sent him a link to the Pike service manual so hopefully something comes of that. If anyone else is interested in getting the 30mm wrench, do email Lunar bike tools to show your interest.


----------



## rotaholic (Feb 17, 2013)

Can anyone recommend a rear shock to compliment the pike, Im thinking of getting a 140mm solo air for my trance x 29er but it only has a evolution ctd shock. What would be a good upgrade? Cant wait for my pike to turn up


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

rotaholic said:


> Can anyone recommend a rear shock to compliment the pike, Im thinking of getting a 140mm solo air for my trance x 29er but it only has a evolution ctd shock. What would be a good upgrade? Cant wait for my pike to turn up


I would recommend at 2014 RS Monarch Plus (with rapid recovery) tuned for you Trance or if you are a "tuner/tinkerer" a CCDB air....just don't know if the CC will fit your Giant.

I have both for a 2012 Turner 5spot that has a 150mm pike. Both pair nicely and are tons better than the stock fox shock.

Cheers,


----------



## Prestige (Oct 22, 2010)

Really learnt something about the Pike on the trail today. My friend also has a Pike, Same as mine RTC3 Solo air 160mm travel for 27.5" wheel. When having a break I started to look my friends for and noticed that it had 15% of sag while there was no weight on the bike. He took all the air out from air spring and pumped it back up. While he was doing this I noticed I had same thing on my Pike. I had looked the 150mm travel chart when setting sag, so I did not notice this before even that I just added two tokens yesterday.

After pumping airspring back to pressure situation was the same, but now the learning bit. Just holding the tyre down by foot and pulling up from the bars so that Pike gets to full travel, and magic happens. There is hissing sound of air (I'm assuming that it rebalances negative and positive chambers) Voila! Fork is back to full travel, and it stays there.

I think that this needs to be done everytime changing pressure at air spring.

I noticed browsed trough this topic, and found few people repoerting the problem, but no solution.

Pike 2014 - Page 6
Pike 2014 - Page 8


----------



## mtnbiker831 (Sep 19, 2011)

Prestige said:


> Really learnt something about the Pike on the trail today. My friend also has a Pike, Same as mine RTC3 Solo air 160mm travel for 27.5" wheel. When having a break I started to look my friends for and noticed that it had 15% of sag while there was no weight on the bike. He took all the air out from air spring and pumped it back up. While he was doing this I noticed I had same thing on my Pike. I had looked the 150mm travel chart when setting sag, so I did not notice this before even that I just added two tokens yesterday.
> 
> After pumping airspring back to pressure situation was the same, but now the learning bit. Just holding the tyre down by foot and pulling up from the bars so that Pike gets to full travel, and magic happens. There is hissing sound of air (I'm assuming that it rebalances negative and positive chambers) Voila! Fork is back to full travel, and it stays there.
> 
> ...


Mine did this at random on rides, usually once a ride. Sram took care of it and sent me a new fork. Mine was also one if the first batch in 26 and I did not have any other issue that some are having in the first batch.


----------



## stunzeed (Mar 17, 2007)

I know the pike is getting rave reviews with the new charger damper but...for a bike that serves as both a DH and Trail bike would I be better off with a Lyrik RC2DH?

The bike will ride local trails with some climbing and also play in the whistler bike park


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

kroe said:


> Am I the only one who is losing travel when setting the proper sag? At 25ish% sag my 160mm 26" Pike is sucked down to the 5% used mark with no pressure on the front of the bike.
> 
> Any way to solve this other than putting more pressure in then I want to?
> 
> I am 205 lbs, so not a lightweight... If it is happening to me than lighter riders must have the same issue...


Same thing here. I'm going to try bleeding the air off and re-inflating the air spring and see if that helps. Did you get the issue resolved? Funny but I had pretty much the same problem on my 2007 RS Pike 454 uturn, which I never did get fixed. I may be bringing this up with RS under warranty.


----------



## downhill502 (Feb 22, 2012)

BushPilot said:


> Same thing here. I'm going to try bleeding the air off and re-inflating the air spring and see if that helps. Did you get the issue resolved? Funny but I had pretty much the same problem on my 2007 RS Pike 454 uturn, which I never did get fixed. I may be bringing this up with RS under warranty.


This is normal and has been addressed in this thread. It is normal function of an air fork, balancing between positive and negative air chambers.


----------



## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

stunzeed said:


> I know the pike is getting rave reviews with the new charger damper but...for a bike that serves as both a DH and Trail bike would I be better off with a Lyrik RC2DH?
> 
> The bike will ride local trails with some climbing and also play in the whistler bike park


Guess is sorta depends. If you're going to be dong more trail riding with climbs, that's where it excels. But if you're going to visit bike parks often, I'd go with a Lyrik or a used Totem.

My understanding is the PIKE is more an "AM" (whatever that means now) an enduro trail fork, not so much designed to take DH abuse. I tihink it wold survive, but you'd be asking a lot of it, and would probably suffer premature wear and/or failure.


----------



## Tuff Wheels (Dec 3, 2013)

downhill502 said:


> This is normal and has been addressed in this thread. It is normal function of an air fork, balancing between positive and negative air chambers.


Can you expand on normal? Do you need to pull up on bars to extend the fork while adding pressure to fork each ride?


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

Hmmm....Thanks. I kind of remember that with the old Pike, I think it had dual air. Maybe I just never noticed with Fox forks because they don't have indexes on the stanchions. I was just thinking of fiddling with the fork, but the travel is now all out!

Just glad I decided to go with the 160mm version Pike since it looks like travel and geo are periodically reduced by almost 10mm...


----------



## downhill502 (Feb 22, 2012)

Tuff Wheels said:


> Can you expand on normal? Do you need to pull up on bars to extend the fork while adding pressure to fork each ride?


If you are unfamiliar with air suspension and how positive and negative air chambers interact with each other, you should really read this article. Tech Tuesday - What a Negative Spring is and Why it Makes the Coil-Spring Nearly Obsolete - Pinkbike
The best way to set/add air pressure on a air fork is to remove all pressure, push the fork about half way down and use a seal lip cleaner tool, Motion Pro makes one for Moto, and open up the lip of the seal main fork seal. This makes sure there is no air trapped in the lower legs. Now just pump it up to the pressure you desire. Once at the set pressure you can cycle it a few times if you like then re-check pressure. Then have fun rippin


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

jhazard said:


> Guess is sorta depends. If you're going to be dong more trail riding with climbs, that's where it excels. But if you're going to visit bike parks often, I'd go with a Lyrik or a used Totem.
> 
> My understanding is the PIKE is more an "AM" (whatever that means now) an enduro trail fork, not so much designed to take DH abuse. I tihink it wold survive, but you'd be asking a lot of it, and would probably suffer premature wear and/or failure.


What are you basing that on, conjecture?!

FWIW I usually run my FR bike with 170mm Lyrik at the local DH trail Thrillium and now me and my friends are running 160 Pikes on Enduro bikes with NO PROBLEMS and that trail is about as Whistler as it gets! It's exceeded my expectations (certainly didn't want the 15mm TA but it's a stiff fork!).

Go for the Pike.

G MAN


----------



## Tuff Wheels (Dec 3, 2013)

downhill502 said:


> If you are unfamiliar with air suspension and how positive and negative air chambers interact with each other, you should really read this article. Tech Tuesday - What a Negative Spring is and Why it Makes the Coil-Spring Nearly Obsolete - Pinkbike
> The best way to set/add air pressure on a air fork is to remove all pressure, push the fork about half way down and use a seal lip cleaner tool, Motion Pro makes one for Moto, and open up the lip of the seal main fork seal. This makes sure there is no air trapped in the lower legs. Now just pump it up to the pressure you desire. Once at the set pressure you can cycle it a few times if you like then re-check pressure. Then have fun rippin


Thanks great article and video.


----------



## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

Gman086 said:


> What are you basing that on,


I'm basing on that its a good idea to use a manufacturer's product as intended. Rockshox describe it as: "...a single-crown trail fork that can take gravity-induced punishment like a heavyweight downhill fork". Which sounds like it's just what he was asking for.

They describe the Pike as: "PIKE is like a stealth bomber designed specifically for new-school trail riders", Funny, DH usage is not mentioned at all.

I'm basing it the fact that I ride a pike too, (what a coincidence!). I love it, it's stiff and smooth, and actually feels better than my aging Boxxer WC, but a downhill fork it is not. Can it be used as such? You and buddies are living proof.

(and FWIW, the Big Mountain Enduro in Angelfire on a 100mm 29er frame matched to a 140mm fork, which included the South Boundary Trail (not a tame trail by any means) and the World Cup trail. This trail was used for the UCI WC race a few years ago, hence the WC designation. It is not a smooth trail. The bike and fork handled it with NO PROBLEMS. More fork and a longer travel frame would have been a little more fun though.)

IF I have a bike that I'm trying to use for dual purposes, I err on the side of overbuilding, so it's more comfortable for the rough stuff.



Gman086 said:


> conjecture?!


Admittedly, I haven't been to Whistler and have no idea what the trails are like. But I have a great idea of what my trails are like - which are chunky Southwestern United States trails, (think Albuquerque, Moab, Sedona, as well as the Colorado favorites. The PIKE does a great job on these trails, from flattish XC to the bumpy and lumpy tech trails. But our DH trails are even steeper, with even lumpier sections of tech, and my Pike won't do as well as my 66 does(*with 20mm more travel...). Now, these are just lowly Southwest trails, and I'm sure they don't compare to Whistler at all. Assuming whistler is burlier than what we have, again I'd want all the fork I could get.

Agree, a Pike would most likely be fine for the guy that posted the question, but IMO, the Lyrik would be the better choice - and I LOVE my Pike, btw...


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

downhill502 said:


> If you are unfamiliar with air suspension and how positive and negative air chambers interact with each other, you should really read this article. Tech Tuesday - What a Negative Spring is and Why it Makes the Coil-Spring Nearly Obsolete - Pinkbike
> The best way to set/add air pressure on a air fork is to remove all pressure, push the fork about half way down and use a seal lip cleaner tool, Motion Pro makes one for Moto, and open up the lip of the seal main fork seal. This makes sure there is no air trapped in the lower legs. Now just pump it up to the pressure you desire. Once at the set pressure you can cycle it a few times if you like then re-check pressure. Then have fun rippin


I would not do it that way myself.

On a solo air fork I would remove all the air from the positive chamber, then grasp the front wheel between my legs and fully extend the fork. This will remove all the air from the negative chamber. Thats something I don't believe you can do just by dropping the air from the positive chamber as in doing that you extend the piston above the grove/dimple in the inner stanchion meaning pressure is still in the negative chamber. If you did not do this and then put a lower pressure in the fork the negative chamber would seemingly never be able to equalise meaning you run lower in the sag of the fork as the negative chamber has a higher pressure than the positive.

I would do the seal trick before adding any air back into the fork.


----------



## downhill502 (Feb 22, 2012)

Rick Draper said:


> I would not do it that way myself.
> 
> On a solo air fork I would remove all the air from the positive chamber, then grasp the front wheel between my legs and fully extend the fork. This will remove all the air from the negative chamber. Thats something I don't believe you can do just by dropping the air from the positive chamber as in doing that you extend the piston above the grove/dimple in the inner stanchion meaning pressure is still in the negative chamber. If you did not do this and then put a lower pressure in the fork the negative chamber would seemingly never be able to equalise meaning you run lower in the sag of the fork as the negative chamber has a higher pressure than the positive.
> 
> I would do the seal trick before adding any air back into the fork.


LOL you could have just added that step, of removing the negative chamber pressure, after removing all air from the fork. Instead of insinuating that my procedure is wrong  Back to the love of the Pike fork, its the tits.


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

11highlights said:


> This sounds like its a one off but my pike has lost both rebound and compression damping and the 3 pos. dial does nothing either. Its going to get serviced this Friday so we'll see what comes of it.
> 
> Interestingly the same thing happened to my previous fox float, it lost all rebound damping and was replaced under warranty.
> 
> ...


I have exactly same issue and once fork was opened by service center we found that bladder just blowup and there is a big hole in it.

I am still awaiting for a new bladder to complete the maintenance of the fork .

So Jayem is right with his diagnose .


----------



## nicoswit (Oct 26, 2009)

*Pike DP 26" 160 Settings*

Hi there!

Just got my Pike Dual Position RCT3 26" 160mm, and have done some runs on it. I keep fiddling about with the rebound and haven't quite gotten it right, the thing is I come from a Lyrik air fork and was used to set the rebound by feel just pushing down on the handlebars and alway felt it quite spot on doing so, but with the pike I do this and when I do a run the fork feels quite fast and has me lowering the rebound speed to a degree that I would never set it just by pushing on the bars. This is not a complain just wanted to know if anyone out there has felt this also? Would this have to do with the fast recovery rebound?

Also, anyone else her notice that when turning the LSC knob nothing really happens until about the last 3 clicks?

Thanks. BTW Loving the fork!!!


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Pulled the lowers for the first time for cleaning and semi-bath duties. Pretty straight forward. 

... With one exception: anyone know how to get the crush washer off the weird damper shaft bolt?


----------



## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm down with the sickness so it's time to at least do the lower service.

Looking at the parts guide, the crush washers are 8mm plastic, correct? Can I just get these at a normal hardware store?

As it appears the Rock Shock 0w-30 oil isn't available, are people using motor oil for the bath?


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

You can get the 0w-30 from artscyclery right now.


----------



## howard619 (Jan 3, 2011)

I was about to say the same, but "Currently Unavailable". I've heard Mobil full synthetic is fine. I just get nervous about my warranty. I wonder if they can taste the difference


----------



## erlau (Apr 4, 2007)

howard619 said:


> I was about to say the same, but "Currently Unavailable". I've heard Mobil full synthetic is fine. I just get nervous about my warranty. I wonder if they can taste the difference


I wouldn't worry for a second about the warranty. Almost all SRAM warranty is handled over the phone by your local shop. If you don't tell them anything is different they wont know.


----------



## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

on another MTB forum there is a lively debate around use of synthetic motor oils for suspension; most of it regarding that "not purpuse suspension oil" can damage the seals, is getting bubbles under heat, possibility of ruining the sliders... 

what s your experiance/opinion?


----------



## erlau (Apr 4, 2007)

m789 said:


> on another MTB forum there is a lively debate around use of synthetic motor oils for suspension; most of it regarding that "not purpuse suspension oil" can damage the seals, is getting bubbles under heat, possibility of ruining the sliders...
> 
> what s your experiance/opinion?


I would make sure to use a suspension specific oil in the damper but I don't think it is necessary for the lubricating oil in the lowers like we are talking about here. I have used synthetic motor oil in my forks over the years and never had any trouble (I think there are others with similar experience). Obviously you want to use an oil without a ton of additives (high-mileage oils, etc.)


----------



## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

Using true suspension fluid in the damper is a no brainer, for sure. For the lower lube oil, I'm having a tough time seeing why motor oil isn't fine. I'm guessing the 0w-30 rock shock is selling as suspension oil is motor oil. I've never found any suspension fluid/oil with a W rating and I don't see a small company having the resources for developing a special oil for a single product.


----------



## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

I know Sram is saying use 3wt fork oil if you don't have the 0w-30 stuff. Thats super thin and prob doesn't really do enough to stick to the bushings. If you're shy about motor oil, what about using a 30wt fork oil?


----------



## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

Is it possible to extend the travel on a 150mm solo air Pike? I just picked up an Intense Carbine29 that is supposedly designed to run the 160mm Pike, unfortunately I was only able to find the 150mm with a 51mm offset. So as stated above, is it possible for me to configure the 150 to a 160mm version? Thanks!


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

Captain Cobb said:


> Is it possible to extend the travel on a 150mm solo air Pike? I just picked up an Intense Carbine29 that is supposedly designed to run the 160mm Pike, unfortunately I was only able to find the 150mm with a 51mm offset. So as stated above, is it possible for me to configure the 150 to a 160mm version? Thanks!


I would imagine it would the same as reducing the fork, i.e. replace the air shaft with the 160mm 29er air shaft. The stanchions should have sag markings for both 150mm and 160mm, meaning the CSU is designed to accommodate either. According to the Rockshox parts list (http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/p...lt/files/techdocs/2014_rockshox_spc_rev_a.pdf) you need the following part:

Part#:11.4018.026.002 - Air Shaft PiKE Solo air 160mm travel 29" (can be used to change travel to 160mm on 29") a1

Looks like it's out of stock at Bikeman Bikeman RockShox Pike Air Shaft Solo Air 160mm Travel 29 A1

I have recently completed the task of reducing my 27.5 Pike from 160mm to 140mm. I posted fairly detailed steps/pictures on the procedure here....

Regularbob's bike blog: Reducing the Rockshox Pike RCT3 Solo Air travel


----------



## SFBMRC (Oct 29, 2006)

Nevermind, I was wrong.


----------



## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

regularbob said:


> I would imagine it would the same as reducing the fork, i.e. replace the air shaft with the 160mm 29er air shaft. The stanchions should have sag markings for both 150mm and 160mm, meaning the CSU is designed to accommodate either. According to the Rockshox parts list (http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/p...lt/files/techdocs/2014_rockshox_spc_rev_a.pdf) you need the following part:
> 
> Part#:11.4018.026.002 - Air Shaft PiKE Solo air 160mm travel 29" (can be used to change travel to 160mm on 29") a1
> 
> ...


Thanks Bob, I will keep an eye on this.. As for now I'm going to try the fork in 150mm form and see if I like how it feels. 150mm is a lot for a 29er already.


----------



## rotaholic (Feb 17, 2013)

Bob, I'm looking at getting the 140mm 29er solo air, I'm guessing I could just do the reverse of what you did to get 160mm if I wanted that much travel later on? Or do I need to buy the 160mm first and shorten them? Thanks


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

rotaholic said:


> Bob, I'm looking at getting the 140mm 29er solo air, I'm guessing I could just do the reverse of what you did to get 160mm if I wanted that much travel later on? Or do I need to buy the 160mm first and shorten them? Thanks


From what I can tell from looking at the parts list, the upper assembly (CSU) and the lower assembly are the same size for all lengths of travel, for each wheel size. Meaning whether you have the 140mm 29" Pike or 150mm 29" Pike the CSUs and lowers should be the same.

Here's the parts listing on the 2014 spare parts catalogue. You can see here that the only difference is with the colours and the 29" CSU has a two different offset options.

11.4018.006.190	- Lower Leg Pike 2615 Disc Black (decals not included) a1
11.4018.006.191	- Lower Leg Pike 2615 Disc White (decals not included) a1
11.4018.006.192	- Lower Leg Pike 2615 Disc Diffusion Black (decals not included) a1
11.4018.006.193	- Lower Leg Pike 27.5/650B, Maxle 15 Disc Black (decals not included) a1 
11.4018.006.194	- Lower Leg Pike 27.5/650B, Maxle 15 Disc White (decals not included) a1 
11.4018.006.195	- Lower Leg Pike 27.5/650B, Maxle 15 Disc Diffusion Black (decals not included) a1 
11.4018.006.196	- Lower Leg Pike 2915 Disc Black (decals not included) a1
11.4018.006.197	- Lower Leg Pike 2915 Disc White (decals not included) a1
11.4018.006.198	- Lower Leg Pike 2915 Disc Diffusion Black (decals not included) a1

11.4018.008.308	- CSu Pike Solo air 26 aluminum taper Black a1 
11.4018.008.310	- CSu Pike Solo air 26 aluminum taper Diffusion Black a1 
11.4018.008.309	- CSu Pike Solo air 26 aluminum taper White a1 
11.4018.008.314	- CSu Pike Solo air 27.5 aluminum taper Black a1 
11.4018.008.316	- CSu Pike Solo air 27.5 aluminum taper Diffusion Black a1 
11.4018.008.315	- CSu Pike Solo air 27.5 aluminum taper White a1 
11.4018.008.320	- CSu Pike Solo air 29 46 off-Set aluminum taper Black a1 
11.4018.008.322	- CSu Pike Solo air 29 46 off-Set aluminum taper Diffusion Black a1 
11.4018.008.321	- CSu Pike Solo air 29 46 off-Set aluminum taper White a1 
11.4018.008.326	- CSu Pike Solo air 29 51 off-Set aluminum taper Black a1 
11.4018.008.328	- CSu Pike Solo air 29 51 off-Set aluminum taper Diffusion Black a1 
11.4018.008.327	- CSu Pike Solo air 29 51 off-Set aluminum taper White a1

The offset may be relevant to you as you might want to change the offset as you increase the travel. However, this means you need to order the CSU with the required offset.


----------



## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

Regularbob, i just looked at your instructions for reducing travel, it looks like the same should apply to increasing travel as well. I will try this as soon as the 160mm air shaft comes available. Thanks for your work creating a detailed instructional page on this.


----------



## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

You can increase the travel in the same way. I wasn't able to get a 160 fork so ordered a 150 fork and put the 160 air shaft in it. Super simple, worth doing. My fork was had no lube oil in it from the factory and feels even smoother now.


----------



## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

I did the same thing last week. The changeover was much easier than I expected - and thanks to all who posted their experience and shared instructions, it was a great help and confidence boost.

My forks had barely any oil either, just to note.


----------



## rotaholic (Feb 17, 2013)

Do the stanchions have the markings on them when you extend them or are they just blank?


----------



## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

Hopefully someone can help... I want to use a pike on my Solo, but in the absence of the air shaft to reduce it down to 140mm, could I run more sag and use the bottomless tokens to get the fork closer to a 130/140 height whilst riding?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## MrPretty (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm pretty sure bottomless tokens only adjust your spring rate, and not the amount of travel the fork has.

RockShox Tech Pills ? Bottomless Tokens Tune the Progression of Your Pike


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Just received both of my new Pikes. I got a smokin deal from Tryon bike on two if them. One is for my Yeti SB95C. I went with the 150 normal offset. The Yeti isn't built yet. 

The other is a160 SA 650B for my Ibis Mojo HD (5.8" rear travel. Yes it can be done). Anyway I had the bushing problem right out of the gate. Honestly though who cares. I haven't had an RS fork since a Judy. I am blown away. A shock pump & a seal kit. Fox has really lost me. I never rode the CTD and was never interested. I am 230 geared. CTD is not for me. Anyway every RLC fork I ever had I always needed to get custom tuned at the end of the season to get it to feel perfect. 

My first ride was a 14 mile night ride. Of course I had forgotten my shock pump at home after putting a little too much air in before leaving my house. My trails are in southern California. I was riding the fire break ridges. Very steep, loose, rutted, rocky, harsh breaking bumps. Tough during the day. Tougher to ride at night. Even with the fork having too much air it felt 100 times better than my 36. It was definitely stiffer which I wasn't expecting. Also plusher. I have fibromyalgia and riding is always very tough on my arms. I feel the fatigue considerably more. After the ride my arm fatigue wasn't an issue. I do not even think I would need to send this fork off for custom tuning at the end of the season. It felt that good. 

Today I am taking it on a 30 mile ride the backbone loop through will Rodgers state park. I am remembering the shock pump today. This ride has some great fast flows trails along with the oh **** sections as well. Can't wait to tune a little more. 

As far as the loose bushings go. Yeah, a little disappointed. But still its in the first season. The warranty is always there and I have a back-up bike. If I didn't I might be a little more perturbed. But just the fact that it feels so right for me out of the box. It's something that I have never experienced before. This fork is just amazing.


----------



## cbj2012 (Aug 31, 2012)

My local bike shop was able to order the air shaft so I can lower the Pike. I will be getting a 27.5/650b 150mm solo air and then lower it to 140mm to got on my GT Sensor Carbon.

If any body has any good pricing I am in the market.


----------



## sidehiller1 (May 9, 2011)

Any ideas when the 160 mm 51 mm offset Pike 29er fork will be available to buy from retailers in the US?


----------



## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

MrPretty said:


> I'm pretty sure bottomless tokens only adjust your spring rate, and not the amount of travel the fork has.
> 
> RockShox Tech Pills ? Bottomless Tokens Tune the Progression of Your Pike


I know that. What I'm asking is whether running more sag and adding some bottomless tokens will effectively give me a lower fork height but with a usable about of travel.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## cbj2012 (Aug 31, 2012)

I would say that sounds like a possible short term option. Running it for a while in 150mm going to ruin the ride either I would think.


----------



## 12snap (Mar 11, 2004)

sidehiller1 said:


> Any ideas when the 160 mm 51 mm offset Pike 29er fork will be available to buy from retailers in the US?


Mike C has one for sale, new, uncut. Big Wheel Deals. Scroll down the page to see the info or contact him at [email protected].


----------



## oilnewby (Jan 13, 2011)

m789 said:


> on another MTB forum there is a lively debate around use of synthetic motor oils for suspension; most of it regarding that "not purpuse suspension oil" can damage the seals, is getting bubbles under heat, possibility of ruining the sliders...
> 
> what s your experiance/opinion?


I personally spoke with Rockshox about the Pike fork and they said to use 0w30 oil but did not specify any specific oil.

For the most part oil is oil that just has different conditioners and detergents in it. All cars have rubber gaskets and seals so I would think you can you any good quality synthetic oil.


----------



## project_d (Jun 1, 2007)

nicoswit said:


> Also, anyone else her notice that when turning the LSC knob nothing really happens until about the last 3 clicks?
> 
> Thanks. BTW Loving the fork!!!


Nope...from fully open, I begin to notice a difference after just 3 clicks.

BTW, loving my Pike 160 DPA!!!


----------



## spooney (Jun 1, 2010)

kragu said:


> 30% does sound high, especially for a fork reputed to run high in its travel while still being small-bump sensitive. I had to run my 2014 Fox 34 at 30% to be soft enough over small stuff for my liking. Still never used the last 15mm of travel with that thing, even off 3 foot drops to flat while at 30% sag.


Running more sag on a fork that rides high in its travel makes perfect sense to me and if you find it bottoms easily use the volume reducers that's the whole idea and if you want to reduce the volume further use a little more grease in the air chamber like slick honey, depends on how plush you like a fork or how fast you ride.

As for the oil in the lowers a put 5ml in the damper side and 15ml in the air side and it blew out the upper seals so went 5ml in each side, the way I see it is that if you need to do the oil in one you will do both together.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Hum...
Just reviewing the rebuild instructions from the service manual and noticed they're calling for a 3wt fork oil. The only reference there is to a 3wt on that Peter Verdone chart is a Bel Ray. Can anyone confirm if the Rockshox oil is this Bel Ray stuff?

I'm also having issues w/ the very slow speed compression...too stiff...so I get jostled off my line on steep/slow techy climbs. What do you guys think...reduction in fork oil viscosity (a bit concerned about this and how it impacts on high speed damping) or slip in a pivot shim under the base shim...like that 15mm one between the 17 and 16 on the compression stack here: http://avalanchedownhillracing.com/Cartridge Kit/Fork valving.jpg
With the pivot shim approach, a little higher viscosity than that 3wt, and a bigger step...ex) a 14 or 13mm for the pivot shim...?

Also, has anyone opened up the shim stack on the Pike yet? If so, any pics, especially of that check shim on the under side of the rebound piston...the shim that opens up on compression and closes off the piston ports on rebound? I'm curious if anyone has mic'd that shim and I might adjust that shim's thickness, or if there's enough room to slip in several shims there and basically build up a mid-stroke stack if I reduce the thickness...? If nothing, then I'll shoot pics and mic those shims when I open 'er up. Going to go pick up a Charger bleed nipple right now


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

No, Pike uses Maxima Racing Shock Fluid 3wt for damping.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> No, Pike uses Maxima Racing Shock Fluid 3wt for damping.


Thanks man! :thumbsup:

Have you had a Pike open yet?


----------



## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

Pau11y said:


> Thanks man! :thumbsup:
> 
> Have you had a Pike open yet?


Give us a call on Monday, we are considering selling a compression valve and rebound kit for the pike. This kit will allow you to revalve and add adjustable midvalve to the charger damper. It will also have a more independent way to adjust the high speed without affecting the mid and low speed damping. The stock rebound valve does have a midvalve of sorts, it is a 16 mm x .15 shim supported by a check spring with a bit of resistance.

We are referring to a compression/rebound replacement internals for the Charger damper, fortunately Rockshox is using the same size cartridge as ours, (they use the same 20 mm cartridge and 6 mm ID shims that we use) and our rebound piston and compression valve from our cartridge fits right in and allows us to offer this as a tuning option for the stock internals. We still need to work out a bunch of details, but this would give riders the option to retain the charger damper system and add features to the internals that create tunable midvalves, compression and rebound ported valving and reshimming options. The stock piston and valves are very limited as to what you can do to the shims for revalving and midvalve. We hope to make this a self install kit, with shims to tune with, and a complete tuning guide with instructions.

This is in addition to the open bath 20 mm cartridge replacement system we just created the adaptors for the Pike. Pike Open Bath Cartridge Kit

Shown below is the Pike's stock rebound piston assembly:



















Shown below is the Pike's stock compression valve assembly:


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

crseekins said:


> The stock rebound valve does have a midvalve of sorts, it is a 16 mm x .15 shim supported by a check spring with a bit of resistance.


Thanks Craig! Talk to you Monday 

Booyah! Looks like this is where I need to slip in some mods to get the pike to open up at the super slow speed compression...

16 x 0.10
14 x 0.10
15 x 0.10

LOVE where everything else is set at out of the box


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

Pau11y said:


> Thanks Craig! Talk to you Monday


+1, awesome looking stuff. Will be giving Craig a ring as well.

Cheers,


----------



## BushPilot (Aug 29, 2007)

"Hopefully someone can help... I want to use a pike on my Solo, but in the absence of the air shaft to reduce it down to 140mm, could I run more sag and use the bottomless tokens to get the fork closer to a 130/140 height whilst riding?"

I'd say yep, if you run about 30% sag or a little more and use an extra token or two could be like dropping from 150 to 140. I was running token(s) for a while and decided to pull them because I was not using full travel unless I was running over 30% sag, which made my 160mm fork more like a 150 geo wise.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*Phone call*



jjkitt said:


> +1, awesome looking stuff. Will be giving Craig a ring as well.
> 
> Cheers,


HAH! So I called after Craig closed shop for the day, and was out in the shop "playing". We got talking about the Pike's mid-stroke and he starts up the lathe and went mad scientist on me 

Conclusion: that spring on the shaft (pic) that provides the checking for the mid-stroke is WAY too stiff.

View attachment 865463


The spring in his damper cartridge that checks the mid-stroke shims has very minimal force...anecdotal experience from tweaking my 888 Avy cart is that it IS very light.

Solution, he's making a shim to lift the piston and check shim off that spring about 1mm to lighten up its force, while small enough for the spring to ride over it, with no other changes.

On what he's working on for the Pike, without a complete swap of the Charger to his cartridge, will be DYI kit to update the rebound and compression pistons and shim-stacking. He differentiated the Pike's high flow piston vs an 'optimized' flow piston and cited some MX suspension design history to reinforce the point...moar doesn't always mean *mo'* betta. And, there's also a planned tweak how the HSC shim stack is adjusted...such that by increasing HSC won't impact the LSC, and the 3 position RCT dial becomes a full HSC dial w/o lockout. This won't be like his open bath cartridge, but it will be close.

Personally, if I can't get the super LSC dialed in w/ the piston/check shim lift, I'll go Avy cartridge...I know how to tweak that


----------



## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

megrpirate said:


> I get the top out clunk with just lifting my front wheel off the ground. The first 5-10mm if travel has no compression and the lowers drop to a clunk at top out.
> 
> This was from straight out of the box, so hopefully if yours are riding fine you should have no worries.
> 
> Also on 160mm 26"


mine has the exact same problem, since new. 150mm, 650b solo air.
had it in for a service and its less now, but still there.
has anyone figured out what this is, or if its a problem?


----------



## megrpirate (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Guys

An update on my forks. Been running them for a couple months now and not had any dramas. The top out feeling gets less and less. Almost feels like the top out bushings are pretty firm from new and start to soften.

Also as soon as I'm actually riding and not in the garage fretting over nothing I don't even notice it.



murrdogg11 said:


> mine has the exact same problem, since new. 150mm, 650b solo air.
> had it in for a service and its less now, but still there.
> has anyone figured out what this is, or if its a problem?


----------



## Overhillthruthewoods (Sep 26, 2012)

Anyone have any suggestions on how to get a pike to fully extend? Unweighted, my shock is still at the 25% sag line. I tried emptying the air chamber and releasing any air caught in the lower leg by using a seal cleaning tool, but it's still not fully extending. I would have to pump to 125psi to get it to fully extend.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> HAH! So I called after Craig closed shop for the day, and was out in the shop "playing". We got talking about the Pike's mid-stroke and he starts up the lathe and went mad scientist on me
> 
> Conclusion: that spring on the shaft (pic) that provides the checking for the mid-stroke is WAY too stiff.
> 
> ...


Nice! I've noticed a bit too much mid stroke support leading to spiking that I don't get with my Lyrik DH so this sounds like the answer to my prayers! What's his timeline?

Cheers,

G MAN

PS - ALL Pikes have that annoying little top-out when you lift the front off the ground, just the nature of the air chamber design.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Gman086 said:


> What's his timeline?
> 
> PS - ALL Pikes have that annoying little top-out when you lift the front off the ground, just the nature of the charger damper.


Very soon 

You know, I don't get that topout clunk...

Edit: next week on the Avy goodness


----------



## Overhillthruthewoods (Sep 26, 2012)

Overhillthruthewoods said:


> Anyone have any suggestions on how to get a pike to fully extend? Unweighted, my shock is still at the 25% sag line. I tried emptying the air chamber and releasing any air caught in the lower leg by using a seal cleaning tool, but it's still not fully extending. I would have to pump to 125psi to get it to fully extend.


I'm going to answer my question... I had to disassemble the entire air chamber/piston. Once reassembled, I pulled the air shaft to full extension and the negative chamber rebalanced.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*Hah!*



Pau11y said:


> Very soon
> 
> Edit: next week on the Avy goodness


Well...seems Craig has a worse case of can't-keep-a-secret than I do...

Preview's up (bottom of page): Pike Open Bath Cartridge Kit

I'll be on that kit as soon as I sell off my '13 Jedi. Anyone looking for a XL unicorn gravity machine?  2013 Jedi F1 XL Frame, Shock, Guide - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Very soon
> 
> You know, I don't get that topout clunk...
> 
> Edit: next week on the Avy goodness


It's not a top-out clunk but rather you can "feel" it when you lift the front tire off the ground. Kind of like having a slightly worn rear shock reducer. I'd be real surprised if yours doesn't have that unless you have it up over 75 psi. The positive and negative chambers don't seem to be equalizing as well as with other forks at lower pressures.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> I'm also having issues w/ the very slow speed compression...too stiff...so I get jostled off my line on steep/slow techy climbs. What do you guys think...reduction in fork oil viscosity (a bit concerned about this and how it impacts on high speed damping) or slip in a pivot shim under the base shim...like that 15mm one between the 17 and 16 on the compression stack here: http://avalanchedownhillracing.com/C... valving.jpg
> With the pivot shim approach, a little higher viscosity than that 3wt, and a bigger step...ex) a 14 or 13mm for the pivot shim...?


Pau11y, There really isn't any room to go softer with the stock damper as it already produces less then 18lbs of force @ 2.5"/sec (see attached dyno graph).











> Conclusion: that spring on the shaft (pic) that provides the checking for the mid-stroke is WAY too stiff.


As for this spring, remember that the amount the spring has to deflect is based on the port area of the piston. As the port area increases, spring rate needs to increase to ensure the shim doesn't overshoot when opening. We've tested multiple models of PIKE on our dyno and non of them have had any influence from the mid-valve at low velocity.



> PS - ALL Pikes have that annoying little top-out when you lift the front off the ground, just the nature of the air chamber design.


Yeah, I've thought about having a small rubber pad molded to aid in that top couple of mm's to correct that.

Darren


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

The discussion here lately has gone way over my head. It's fascinating but I feel like I am back in college trying to understand my bio-chem text book after ditching class the whole semester & it's the night before the final exam. However, I am digging this. God bless the guys that get this and can help a simpleton like myself.


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

spunkmtb said:


> The discussion here lately has gone way over my head. It's fascinating but I feel like I am back in college trying to understand my bio-chem text book after ditching class the whole semester & it's the night before the final exam. However, I am digging this. God bless the guys that get this and can help a simpleton like myself.


Same here. I'm still trying to figure out how shim stacks work. even searched and still don't quite understand it well.


----------



## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Piston and Shim 101

Piston & Shim Technology ? DVO Suspension


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> Piston and Shim 101
> 
> Piston & Shim Technology ? DVO Suspension


EXCELLENT reference. THANKS!


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Pau11y, There really isn't any room to go softer with the stock damper as it already produces less then 18lbs of force @ 2.5"/sec (see attached dyno graph).
> 
> View attachment 866160
> 
> ...


Darren,
So while that dyno capture is cool and all, it's pretty meaningless to someone who's not seen one before. Can you elaborate on what that thing's showing?

Something else I noticed was the RS stock piston seems to be a LOT more open when compared to the Avy piston if you follow the link Craig posted. Is there a point of depreciative return by sending a lot of oil flow thru a piston, and then using stiff check springs and stiff shims to try to limit that flow? Or, is it better to use smaller ports and light spring/shims and send the extra oil down a needle bypass port...like down the middle of the shaft...optimized port sizing for the necessary forces...and the lighter spring/shim will get you there (lighter damping forces)?


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Darren,

Anything planned for the Pike from PUSH? While the Charger damper is good, there is definitely room for improvement.

Cheers,

G


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Darren,
> So while that dyno capture is cool and all, it's pretty meaningless to someone who's not seen one before. Can you elaborate on what that thing's showing?


Uh.....sorry about that one. I should've included a legend. What you're looking at is a Force vs. Velocity graph of a complete cycle of a PIKE fork over 1" of stroke. The upper portion of the graph represents compression damping, the lower part of the graph showing rebound. I'll post up a different graph form in the morning that will make more sense. The long and short of it: If you input a velocity of 2.5"/sec into the fork, which is considered a low velocity event, the stock Charger damper in the open position will be generating approximately 18lbs of compression damping.



> Something else I noticed was the RS stock piston seems to be a LOT more open when compared to the Avy piston if you follow the link Craig posted. Is there a point of depreciative return by sending a lot of oil flow thru a piston, and then using stiff check springs and stiff shims to try to limit that flow? Or, is it better to use smaller ports and light spring/shims and send the extra oil down a needle bypass port...like down the middle of the shaft...optimized port sizing for the necessary forces...and the lighter spring/shim will get you there (lighter damping forces)?


First, you have to be VERY careful when making changes to a mid valve in the case of the PIKE because the cartridge isn't pressurized. So, the pressure differential on the backside of the rebound piston is completely tied to the main compression stack. Get the balance between the compression stack and mid-valve incorrect and you'll introduce cavitation quite easily at higher shaft velocities. I mentioned this in another post as well, but IMO I'm not sure how you would be able to make that adjustment correctly without a suspension dyno capable of creating high frequency square waves simulating actual bumps. I can assure you that RS did just that to come up with the production unit that they have.

As for the port area I can't comment for certain having not been behind RS walls, but I do have my experience. With the current crop of sealed dampers from RS and FOX, controlling cavitation while maintaing relatively low compression damping requires very large port volume on the compression side of the rebound piston. This is why you'll see on both platforms, a very large discrepancy between inlet and rebound ports.

Next is the spring and thin shim interface. The stock RS Charger cartridge uses a thin shim/firm spring combination. Because of the large port area in the piston, you need very little deflection to get full flow. In addition, the spring acts as a surface for the thin shim to pivot(bend) around allowing a very controlled metering of flow at low speeds, and a means for the shim to completely deflect at high speeds. This not only eliminates the ability for the system to cavitate, but reduces the hysteresis in the damper increasing damper response. The increase in response equates into better traction and control for the rider.



> Anything planned for the Pike from PUSH? While the Charger damper is good, there is definitely room for improvement.


No comment.

Darren

5 Hours Ago


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

I am not sure if this has been posted before, but here you go.
ROCKSHOX TECH PILLS | PIKE | BOTTOMLESS TOKENS:


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

jazzanova said:


> I am not sure if this has been posted before, but here you go.
> ROCKSHOX TECH PILLS | PIKE | BOTTOMLESS TOKENS:


Good call on Sram's part, contracting out the Dos Equis guy.


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> Pau11y, There really isn't any room to go softer with the stock damper as it already produces less then 18lbs of force @ 2.5"/sec (see attached dyno graph).
> 
> As for this spring, remember that the amount the spring has to deflect is based on the port area of the piston. As the port area increases, spring rate needs to increase to ensure the shim doesn't overshoot when opening. We've tested multiple models of PIKE on our dyno and non of them have had any influence from the mid-valve at low velocity.
> 
> ...


Sweet ^^

Any info on an inverted 36 RC2 fit and how much softer it can go? (it has a similar 
mini preload spring as the PIKE)

@ Pau11y I had a similar problem of the slight spike @ low low speed on my Van (I like to run stiffest coil I can get). This was my quick fix for that mini preload spring, just have to measure to get the taper right on the socket and basically reduce the wire gauge/add coils and compare each (finger dyno)










This one didn't work out but if you make a couple of these lighter and lighter you'll find a crossover point and feel the HSC start. On the 36 it was subtle though, but going lighter on that mini preload spring seemed to smooth that low speed (when running the x stiff coil), remember it felt like removing a bit of stiction...


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Darren,
> So while that dyno capture is cool and all, it's pretty meaningless to someone who's not seen one before. Can you elaborate on what that thing's showing?


Here's a clip showing it in action:






And here's a more descriptive force vs velocity curve of the PIKE:









Darren


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> ...here's a more descriptive force vs velocity curve of the PIKE:


Darren,

Thanks for the new plot, it IS a lot clearer! Can I get you to confirm what's what? So this is your plot w/ some colored trend lines added.









Yellow:
The reaction of that little spring fighting the mid-valve check shim as the oil pushes the shim, pretty much flat, across the little ledge (float) pointed to by the blue arrow?








Blue:
That mid-valve check shim flexing and LSC needle in the top plug restricting flow (while the rebound bypass and needle ports is letting excess oil flow into the negative chamber). Since the HSC shims are more supported the more compression damping you dial in, the more damping force this mid-valve shim will have to takes on until you reach enough force to open up the HSC stack. And vise versa...the less supported the HSC shims, the sooner that mi-valve check shim/rebound stack pushes enough oil to open up the HSC stack.

Green: 
Full HSC stack damping, or rather, the sum of all shims in action.

That hysteresis response you're talking about...or the non-linear/wavy part of the curve way on the right of the plot...when you reach very high shaft speeds would be from cavitation behind the main rebound piston (behind the mid-valve check plate)?

Am I on base, or completely off my rockers?

So, what I was thinking to change is from [0,0] where yellow start linearly to something that'll have a tiny relatively shallow slope (40 to 45* or so) and then rise up to meet the blue. The thinking to acomplish this is to lighten up that little spring so the check shim can come back quicker...which also mean the yellow part will be less. Then, introduce a more gradual transition to the blue by replacing the single 16 x 0.15 check shim + whatever float w/ a stacking of a thinner, two stage check shim + reduced float...16 x 0.1 (base), 14 x 0.1, 15 x 0.1. The very outer edge of the base shim now is only 1/3 as stiff as the old shim (a 0.15 is 3x as stiff as a 0.10 of equivalent diameter...per Avy's moto side shims page), and will open up w/ very little force at very slow shaft speeds. But because there's less float w/ the 2 stage stack, the blue line will hopefully arc up to meet green at the same transition point.

There's a guy who's attempting a mod by adding a tiny bit more float and cutting that spring, but still using the same single shim. I'll update, once he has some saddle time...friggin' snowed last night...4" on the roads right now! :/


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Pau11y,

Ok, I think I realize where part of the disconnect is. I believe that you're thinking that the check spring and shim are effecting the damper from 0,0 and that's not the case. The reason it's called a "mid-valve" is because it doesn't come into play until mid velocities. Damper velocities from approximately 0-5"/sec the shim is actually fully closed. This is due to the fact that oil is "free bleeding" past the piston through the adjustable rebound orifice. This is why you don't need the shim to "float" The only way to get the mid valve to activate in your scenario would be to run the rebound at full slow therefore closing off that path for oil to flow. We all know that running the fork in that position is not reality.

This is obviously a moto fork, but this is a specific mid-velocity test that we created for adjusting mid valving at two different stroke settings. This will give you an idea of the velocity range.






So.....it's more like:

Yellow, initial friction

Blue, the compression stack, not mid-valve generating force. This is why the slope increases when you put the fork in "lock" mode.

Green, Compression valving reaching preload threshold and begining to open while blending into the mid-valve circuit starting to open it. As I mentioned earlier, getting the balance of these circuits is important. This graph only represents up to 7.5"/sec...not in the range of high speed damping. The previous PIKE dyno video does have two simulations which are high speed events. The second to last being 40"/sec, and the last being 65"/sec.

As for hysteresis, it's not represented in this type of graph as we're simply looking at the compression stroke from zero, and the rebound circuit form zero not the loop of the stroke. The slight dip that you're seeing could possibly be a small air bubble, or dyno resolution.

I'm assuming that you're somewhere in Colorado? If so, and you ever want to take a field trip to PUSH, let me know.

Darren


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Darren,

The Pike's high speed damping seems to be good, low speed I can tune in pretty well with the lsc adjuster. But I can't, for the life of me, get my Pike dialed to tune out the mid speed spiking. It seems to have the opposite problem of the original Pike which had no mid-stroke support. This version seems to have TOO much mid-stroke support! Your take please.

Thanks,

G MAN


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Gman086 said:


> Darren,
> 
> The Pike's high speed damping seems to be good, low speed I can tune in pretty well with the lsc adjuster. But I can't, for the life of me, get my Pike dialed to tune out the mid speed spiking. It seems to have the opposite problem of the original Pike which had no mid-stroke support. This version seems to have TOO much mid-stroke support! Your take please.
> 
> ...


I find that the term "mid-stroke harshness" to be a term that I see frequently on the internet, but in talking to people on the phone it seems to mean very different things to different people.

I'm assuming that you're not looking down at your fork when it feels like it's spiking and seeing that it's actually in the middle of the travel, so it's better to try to isolate the type o f event. For instance, a g-out, single square impact, successive impacts under braking, etc.

Knowing the type of event helps with determining what direction to start.

Also, it's important to remember/understand that all suspension setups are a compromise and that the goal os to find the best compromise. It's simply not possible to have a fork or shock that can "do everything". For example, increasing low speed compression aids in handling control and pedaling efficiency, but compromises small bump sensitivity. Linear spring curves provide a compliant ride even over medium size impacts, but compromise bottoming control on drops or deep g-outs. And, on and on.

Darren


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Pau11y,
> 
> Ok, I think I realize where part of the disconnect is. I believe that you're thinking that the check spring and shim are effecting the damper from 0,0 and that's not the case. The reason it's called a "mid-valve" is because it doesn't come into play until mid velocities. Damper velocities from approximately 0-5"/sec the shim is actually fully closed. This is due to the fact that oil is "free bleeding" past the piston through the adjustable rebound orifice. This is why you don't need the shim to "float" The only way to get the mid valve to activate in your scenario would be to run the rebound at full slow therefore closing off that path for oil to flow. We all know that running the fork in that position is not reality.
> 
> ...


Darren,
Yes, I'm in Golden, just down the road...I'm that bozo who kept on asking you about shims and stacking when you put on that open house a couple of years ago 

Yeah, I'd be totally into swinging by...I need to drop of a frame w/ Cytoe in Ft. Fun for him to make a skid plate one of these weekends...so will be close to Loveland/your shop. But your invite...you ought to do another open house, if your work load allows. But this time do a beginners in the morning, and then get crazy nerdy in the afternoon, where you can get this techy as we've been swapping posts. I cross posted the Avy Charger refit kit in the CO/FR forum, and there's def some interest in the black art of suspension tuning and shim stacking. And, if you sell shims, not saying it'll be a huge market, but could be a really high profit:labor revenue stream, no?

I've got a lot more question on this that would prob be best done during a meeting...just way too much typing...unless people on here wants to read it. See, the basis of my learning is off of Avy's 888 cartridge. What Craig does in his cart vs what I see in the Pike...the nuances are two different animals!


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> I find that the term "mid-stroke harshness" to be a term that I see frequently on the internet, but in talking to people on the phone it seems to mean very different things to different people.
> 
> I'm assuming that you're not looking down at your fork when it feels like it's spiking and seeing that it's actually in the middle of the travel, so it's better to try to isolate the type o f event. For instance, a g-out, single square impact, successive impacts under braking, etc.
> 
> ...


Good points. The problem is over successive 6" or so roots/rocks at high speeds. They are high speed events but don't take up the travel like a big drop or jump would. The travel is more in the upper mid-range of the fork. What I found today is that I could dial out most of the spiking by running really low LSC (1-2 clicks) and VERY fast rebound (only 7 clicks of rebound). The problem with that is the fork sucks when doing jumps (sucks up the face and the rebound kicks you back and out of control). Ideally I'd like to have that really fast rebound for 2/3 travel and then have the end of stroke rebound slow WAY down for control on big drops and jumps! The LSR adjust seems to affect the HSR on the Pike? I'd really like to know and certainly wish they would have an HSR adjust on more forks these dayz! The trend seems to be going that way for rear DH shocks but why hasn't it crossed over to forks?

Thanks,

G MAN


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

So from reading this thread... I currently have a 26 inch dually and looking at buying a pike. In terms of future compatibility with 650B, I can either just fit a 650b fork now and then change nothing in future OR I can buy the 26 and the most I have to change in the future to go 650B are the lowers and possibly the aforementioned right length air piston. Correct?


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

Gman086 said:


> Good points. The problem is over successive 6" or so roots/rocks at high speeds. They are high speed events but don't take up the travel like a big drop or jump would. The travel is more in the upper mid-range of the fork. What I found today is that I could dial out most of the spiking by running really low LSC (1-2 clicks) and VERY fast rebound (only 7 clicks of rebound). The problem with that is the fork sucks when doing jumps (sucks up the face and the rebound kicks you back and out of control). Ideally I'd like to have that really fast rebound for 2/3 travel and then have the end of stroke rebound slow WAY down for control on big drops and jumps! The LSR adjust seems to affect the HSR on the Pike? I'd really like to know and certainly wish they would have an HSR adjust on more forks these dayz! The trend seems to be going that way for rear DH shocks but why hasn't it crossed over to forks?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> G MAN


That's just what I wanted to know from someone who rides one in natural terrain.Seems plenty of love for them but I was wary that they may use the same overly linear air sping for mid range support but mid to high HSC like the Rev.
IMHO my 2013 F160 rides that sort of terrain well. You can dial the hsc right back ,add mid LSC and the relatively progressive air spring[ more linear than 2012] sucks up the travel rather than relying on damper hsc compression to limit travel.
I'm no suspension GURU but i find in all forks[less so on my F160]any LSC still adds to the HSC . You can trial it by doing some runs with all comp dailled back and smacking in to a decent square edge hit. Possibly successively lower pressure till you nearly bottom it out . Then add lsc and you should find that you use less travel.

Maybe imitate my F160 by adding max air tokens, dial back your air pressure and both comp and just dial enough lsc as needed. If not then may be try and reshim it to give lower HSC.?


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

The low speed dial for the compression and for the rebound control how much oil you want to flow at each end.. 

I think what people are complaining about is the nature of this little preload spring and single shim setup.. can create an on-off feel at certain speeds (like what Gman086 is describing) if you're expecting the system to start to blow off and then it doesn't


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Good points. The problem is over successive 6" or so roots/rocks at high speeds. They are high speed events but don't take up the travel like a big drop or jump would. The travel is more in the upper mid-range of the fork. What I found today is that I could dial out most of the spiking by running really low LSC (1-2 clicks) and VERY fast rebound (only 7 clicks of rebound). The problem with that is the fork sucks when doing jumps (sucks up the face and the rebound kicks you back and out of control). Ideally I'd like to have that really fast rebound for 2/3 travel and then have the end of stroke rebound slow WAY down for control on big drops and jumps! The LSR adjust seems to affect the HSR on the Pike? I'd really like to know and certainly wish they would have an HSR adjust on more forks these dayz! The trend seems to be going that way for rear DH shocks but why hasn't it crossed over to forks?


What you're describing is generally from too little compression damping at higher velocities. I know that it's counter intuitive, but the lack of absorption from the damper sometimes yields high accelerations on the compression and rebound stroke leading to harshness in the bars. I would experiment with slightly higher compression levels and slightly slower rebound levels and see if it improves this area of complaint. This may lead to unwanted performance in other areas, but at least it's a starting point.

As for the low speed adjuster, it does not impact the high speed valving. The packaging in front forks is pretty tight....that's why I'm guessing you don't see HSR in most trail forks.
Deerhill
The low speed dial for the compression and for the rebound control how much oil you want to flow at each end..



> I think what people are complaining about is the nature of this little preload spring and single shim setup.. can create an on-off feel at certain speeds (like what Gman086 is describing) if you're expecting the system to start to blow off and then it doesn't


It doesn't in stock trim, it actually blends in very smoothly and produces very little in the way of compression damping due to the initial bleed from the rebound port and back pressure from the stock compression valving. Once back in the office I can throw up a dyno force curve showing the higher velocities.

Darren


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> As for the low speed adjuster, it does not impact the high speed valving. The packaging in front forks is pretty tight....that's why I'm guessing you don't see HSR in most trail forks.
> Deerhill
> The low speed dial for the compression and for the rebound control how much oil you want to flow at each end..
> 
> ...


Cool. Going from mid speed up into the high speed it seems to blend awesome, but I was thinking more the low speed to mid speed blend or where the pressure doesn't quite bend the HSC stack.. feels like that is where the trade off or on-off spike feel is, or maybe hsc is too firm


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> What you're describing is generally from too little compression damping at higher velocities. I know that it's counter intuitive, but the lack of absorption from the damper sometimes yields high accelerations on the compression and rebound stroke leading to harshness in the bars. I would experiment with slightly higher compression levels and slightly slower rebound levels and see if it improves this area of complaint. This may lead to unwanted performance in other areas, but at least it's a starting point.
> 
> Darren


I've always assumed that's how my Dt swiss forks cope so well with sharp edge hits even though they are a linear fork.They don't have the showroom plush feel that sells other forks. Quite the opposite. They must have set the shim stack up in bias towards low speed support.The euro's like that firm initial feel so they hold up mid stoke but yield in the sharp edge stuff. I presume that initail support also slows shaft speeds down on big hits.The faster you go the better the smal bump complince and midstoke feels. Idle around they wouldn't get the gushing rave reviews of some 32 forks. But hit anything decent and you soon find out which is the better fork.

I find on other forks, to get shaft speeds down , and smmoth out the fast hits,it's a compromise between adding compression, air pressure or making them more progressive.Lots of trial and error.I assume since in this case you are just recommending adding more compression thatbthis is the best option for the Pike and RS have done their homework and the stack is not biased towards HSC?

Or ar you to nice too say that it's linear by nature and out of the box is designed to appeal to the masses who now ride bike parks and groomed trails?


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

Deerhill said:


> Cool. Going from mid speed up into the high speed it seems to blend awesome, but I was thinking more the low speed to mid speed blend or where the pressure doesn't quite bend the HSC stack.. feels like that is where the trade off or on-off spike feel is, or maybe hsc is too firm


None of my forks have mid valves and that's what I would describe when you feed in a hand full of LSC ? .Going faster has always been my solution, especially with the CTD forks.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Gman086 said:


> Good points. The problem is over successive 6" or so roots/rocks at high speeds. They are high speed events but don't take up the travel like a big drop or jump would. The travel is more in the upper mid-range of the fork. What I found today is that I could dial out most of the spiking by running really low LSC (1-2 clicks) and VERY fast rebound (only 7 clicks of rebound). The problem with that is the fork sucks when doing jumps (sucks up the face and the rebound kicks you back and out of control). Ideally I'd like to have that really fast rebound for 2/3 travel and then have the end of stroke rebound slow WAY down for control on big drops and jumps! The LSR adjust seems to affect the HSR on the Pike? I'd really like to know and certainly wish they would have an HSR adjust on more forks these dayz! The trend seems to be going that way for rear DH shocks but why hasn't it crossed over to forks?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> G MAN


Gman,

Pure sarcasm with this response but it sounds like you just need to put some weight on. I'm 235 geared up. I'm running about 85 psi, 10 clicks rebound towards the bunny, 7 clicks LSC, and one token.

I would love to just experience once not having to run so much PSI, LSC, & rebound. But still this stil feels like the best set-up for me.The LSC Keeps the fork from diving to much in my steep, stepped, rutted, baby-head drops. I was usually just leaving about 1/3 of travel left. Now with the token I think I have about 3/4 of an inch of bail-out travel. I'm running a 160 650B fork on a Mojo HD.

This is the best feeling fork I have ever been on stock out of the box. Ever!!! I am still going to be sending it out for custom tuning at some point when it needs a rebuild. But its still the best i've ever had and I am all grins.


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

gvs_nz said:


> None of my forks have mid valves and that's what I would describe when you feed in a hand full of LSC ? .Going faster has always been my solution, especially with the CTD forks.


Never tried something with ctd, but yeah that sounds similar the lsc, lsr or "free bleed" transition to mid speed

I wonder if the PIKE would convert to coil?


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

spunkmtb said:


> Gman,
> 
> Pure sarcasm with this response but it sounds like you just need to put some weight on. I'm 235 geared up. I'm running about 85 psi, 10 clicks rebound towards the bunny, 7 clicks LSC, and one token.
> 
> ...


I'm about 180-185 geared up and the Pike is good but just doesn't compare to my Lyrik DH with the firm coil spring - I'm not one to go light on spring rates for my riding style, trust me. Even when the Lyrik was a Solo Air it was better than the Pike. I think I got one with bad bushings or the damper needs a bleed. Time to tear into her again!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

Yeh stiction might be worth a punt. I've had a couple of forks that felt smooth on the showroom floor and small bump compliance was fine but they spiked more than I expected. Being new I tried some love lube every couple of rides till they bedded down and it worked.

Be interested to see if you can tune them in.


----------



## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

Alright, finally got around to doing the 150mm to 160mm conversion on my Pike, I just followed these instructions http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/si...e_manual_0.pdf
It was a piece of cake! One beer job. Ride report will have to wait until the rain stops.


----------



## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Gman086 said:


> I'm about 180-185 geared up and the Pike is good but just doesn't compare to my Lyrik DH with the firm coil spring - I'm not one to go light on spring rates for my riding style, trust me. Even when the Lyrik was a Solo Air it was better than the Pike. I think I got one with bad bushings or the damper needs a bleed. Time to tear into her again!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


You are having the same experience I had with mine. Everything felt great to me except for the high speed chunder spike. Having a new one sent my way for my new build and being 210lbs I will def be running 1 token. Also hope I can find a happy medium tune with the fork to get rid of some spike while still having a subtle feel and good big hit performance. My Pushed 36 is crazy sticky , I literally have to compress down on the bars to get it to sag, once in sag it seems ok. Kicks butt on big hits though.


----------



## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

Captain Cobb said:


> Alright, finally got around to doing the 150mm to 160mm conversion on my Pike, I just followed these instructions http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/si...e_manual_0.pdf
> It was a piece of cake! One beer job. Ride report will have to wait until the rain stops.


you've got my attention...but the link is not working.


----------



## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

Here, try this. http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf
And here's the link to the 160mm air shaft. Bikeman RockShox Pike Air Shaft Solo Air 160mm Travel 29 A1


----------



## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

nice thanks


----------



## rhyko (Nov 10, 2008)

would anyone else prefer it if they ramped up more progressively? feel like i blow through the travel a little too easily on mine.


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

You mean more than what the tokens would provide?

I kept bottoming the fork without the tokens and after installing one token, I use most of the travel and don't bottom out anymore.


----------



## G-AIR (Jan 23, 2004)

rhyko said:


> would anyone else prefer it if they ramped up more progressively? feel like i blow through the travel a little too easily on mine.


How many tokens are you running? Maybe add another one.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

And to add to that, running tokens will mean more sag, lower pressure, possibly using a lot of travel on impacts, not like a linear feel that would mean less sag, using less travel, riding higher, etc. Sometimes people reverse these.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Anyone want to break down what this "spike is"? I have about 80 miles on my fork now. Unfortunately the majority of my rides have been night rides where I tend to focus more on holding on for dear life vs what my front fork is really doing. 

As far as set-up goes. Again I am about 235 geared up. I ride I so-cal where we climb fire roads than descend up and down ridges. The ridge descents are very steep, lose, rutted, baby head laden, hi-speed braking bump littered. Running 25% sag I felt like I wasn't using enough travel. I had 7clicks LSC, 10 rebound from full slow. I dropped the sag down to 30% and felt I was getting to much travel so I added a token. Once I added a token (I am not sure how to describe this feeling) but I just didn't like how the fork felt I backed off the rebound by one click but when I get deep in the traveling feel like the fork is getting overwhelmed and not keeping up. Am I feeling this so called "Spike"? 

Now I do understand that I am a big boy and these are night rides where my perception can be way off. But I am starting to feel like I should reduce the sag to 25%, remove the token, & add a click of rebound. 

Still the fork blows away any fox I've ever been on through this section and I love the low speed capabilities with the rapid recovery. I do find that I do must of my climbing in the trail mode. The open mode is too active for me and bobs too much for my liking. I tried turning the LSC knob all the way to full firm but didn't find it made a difference when climbing. Also trying to stand and pedal it was full bob. My fork did come with the bushing problem. 

Any arm chair suspension tuners want to chime in on some settings that I should try. My suspension does feel very balanced front & rear (I am on a 150 travel 650b Ibis mojo HD), the front fork is 160. I would love to have the fork in the open setting and be able to stand and crank on the pedals.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Jayem said:


> And to add to that, running tokens will mean more sag, lower pressure, possibly using a lot of travel on impacts, not like a linear feel that would mean less sag, using less travel, riding higher, etc. Sometimes people reverse these.


Adding tokens may not necessarily imply more sag. Jayem, rest of this is meant for others 'cause I'm pretty sure you know it.

With more token/less air volume, when you pump you'll reach proper sag (whatever that may be) at lower air pressure. And, when you get to near full travel, the air spring/pressure will ramp up much faster (progressive). This helps guys who are heavier and/or go big/fast to resist bottoming.

I've heard a couple of times that the Rapid recovery could be a bit too fast when you have your air at 65, 70 psi. But at the reduced pressure w/ the tokens, the rebound energy is also reduced and it actually feels pretty damn good!


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> I've heard a couple of times that the Rapid recovery could be a bit too fast when you have your air at 65, 70 psi. But at the reduced pressure w/ the tokens, the rebound energy is also reduced and it actually feels pretty damn good!


Could this be what I am feeling when I am deep in my travel? I am pretty sure I have 80-85psi. I am using the Cane Creek zero loss shock pump so its pretty accurate.

If I go with lower pressure/more sag add another token and leave the rebound where its at think its worth a shot? Or will I ramp up too much towards the end of the travel?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

spunkmtb said:


> Could this be what I am feeling when I am deep in my travel? I am pretty sure I have 80-85psi. I am using the Cane Creek zero loss shock pump so its pretty accurate.
> 
> If I go with lower pressure/more sag add another token and leave the rebound where its at think its worth a shot? Or will I ramp up too much towards the end of the travel?


You're the same guy, big fella, in that post below...235 ish? How many tokens in, two or three? I think a 27.5 has a max of 3 tokens?

You up on smooth but want to stand on your climbs and down on steep tech?

If I was riding in that combo w/ your weight, I'd run in the trail mode mostly w/ as little LSC as possible (I've been told the trail mode renders the LSC dial useless), and about 50% on the rebound knob...and then dial it less as need. FYI, the way the rebound is done, it crosses into LSC a bit on the very low speeds...lots of free bleed...is this their rapid recovery thing?

I'd max out the tokens, and adjust your sag to between 25 to 27% (less if you still feel you're blowing thru your travel too quickly). If this don't work for you, go w/ higher viscosity...say like Spectro 85/150 cartridge oil or Showa SS7 (5wt). If you change the fluid, you'll have to experiment and figure it all out for yourself. A good point is to start in the middle everywhere, in the open mode, and proper sag...


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> Adding tokens may not necessarily imply more sag. Jayem, rest of this is meant for others 'cause I'm pretty sure you know it.


It does, because a more progressive fork will ride with more sag to achieve the same bottom-out resistance, compared to adjusting the pressure in a linear fork to achieve the same.



> With more token/less air volume, when you pump you'll reach proper sag (whatever that may be) at lower air pressure. And, when you get to near full travel, the air spring/pressure will ramp up much faster (progressive). This helps guys who are heavier and/or go big/fast to resist bottoming.


It doesn't help or hurt heavier guys. Assuming adjusting to the same bottom out resistance, it allows for more supple initial travel and using more of the travel. On some coil and air shock bikes you were limited by falling rate bikes that could bottom on a big jump even when you had a ton of pressure or a way-too heavy coil, this isn't really the same thing. I'm not advocating running the fork linear, though, just explaining it. It can be helpful if you are blowing through a lot of travel, might feel a little worse for the small stuff, but people that are really pushing through rough steep terrain might benefit.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Jayem said:


> It does, because a more progressive fork will ride with more sag to achieve the same bottom-out resistance, compared to adjusting the pressure in a linear fork to achieve the same.
> 
> It doesn't help or hurt heavier guys. Assuming adjusting to the same bottom out resistance, it allows for more supple initial travel and using more of the travel. On some coil and air shock bikes you were limited by falling rate bikes that could bottom on a big jump even when you had a ton of pressure or a way-too heavy coil, this isn't really the same thing. I'm not advocating running the fork linear, though, just explaining it. It can be helpful if you are blowing through a lot of travel, might feel a little worse for the small stuff, but people that are really pushing through rough steep terrain might benefit.


But I'm getting the impression you're talking about the end point of the spring curve...if both a token'd and a non-token'd fork ended up at the same PSI at full travel. But if they started at the same sag...25% sag w/ no tokens, and 25% sag w/ 3 tokens, the starting PSI will be lower on the fork w/ the 3 tokens, but will end up higher overall PSI at full travel than the fork w/ no tokens, no?

Another way to test this would be to put in whatever psi it would be for 25% sag w/ no tokens and then repeat w/ max tokens, but taken up to the same psi as the first step...you'll have almost no sag.


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

IMHO sag is not the best tuning point for a fork especially a linear one. I guess i've had too many early Fox forks where 5 psi can make or break a ride. And 5 psi is not discernable in the sag measurement , especially with a bit of stiction going on.

I start at the top end now. Choose a nice bit of gradual terrain with a big g out that you can hit at moderate pace. I lean in to the fork to bottom it without introducing too much comp damping. That's my datum to work from.

Now go ride and see what high and low speed comp I need to introduce, + tweak the air presure. If i supect the air spring curve is no good then change the spring with tokens or oil etc and reclibrate on my g out run again.

I try one variable at a time. Sag never comes in to it. With their higher pressures and less stiction i do use sag on the shock as one of my tuning ponts. As well as bottom g out travel and smooth climbing travel.

Don't know it's how the pro's do it but it works for me?

I do however notice[ and it's easier to see on shocks] that I can quite often add volume spacers, and as a result of becoming more progressive, the ride becomes more supple at the low end . That's without changing the pressure. As you say it may show up in sag as well. But don't assume you need to change air pressure at all. The change in spring curve is quite noticeable.


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

spunkmtb said:


> Anyone want to break down what this "spike is"? /QUOTE]
> 
> It's sharp feedback through the bars when you hit a large sharp edge object at speed. High shft speeds, with high oil flow and the shims doing thrir job or poor design where not enough oil can flow. On linear forks it can actually be a design feature to prevent them bottoming excessively while maintaining a nice supportive mid stroke from the linear air spring for the majority of terrain.
> If you haven't felt a Rev spike on your terrain then I hopet you will not feel a Pike spike?


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> You're the same guy, big fella, in that post below...235 ish? How many tokens in, two or three? I think a 27.5 has a max of 3 tokens?
> 
> You up on smooth but want to stand on your climbs and down on steep tech?
> 
> ...


Yeah, this is me. Sometimes I forget to switch to the open setting and I can definitely tell it feels way too harsh. I am running one token now. But I am going to remove it. I just don't like how it feels and try going back to about 25% sag with maybe less rebound. I will get it figured out. But really this is nit-picking because it's still hands down so much better than my recent 2011 Fox F34 RLC. Perhaps I will call sram and try and get some tuning advice. Also one of these days I will get on this specific trail on a day ride and see how it feels.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

It's often not mentioned, but rider skill level, and this riders understanding of what is happening, is a big factor. What works for me, will not work for you in the slightest bit, if we are not riding at the same level, and vice-versa.

Many beginner/novice riders will want more tokens, and less pressure than recommended, in order to use all your travel when riding at "your" aggressive pace, and still have a supple feel. 

If I could give some advice on this fork...... Run faster rebound, and a bit more low speed compression than you would, normally. This keeps the fork in the softer portion of the spring rate. In my experience, the only time I've had this fork spike hard, was when I got too deep in the travel on successive hits.

EDIT: My settings and details for this fork below.

200Lbs geared up
2014 Enduro 29 S-works(160mm Pike)
No tokens(removed the one OEM installed)
78psi
2 clicks in on rebound(yes, almost full open)
2 clicks in on low speed compression if around freezing, and up to 6 or more clicks in if around 100* out, I usually split the difference if the temps are between.
I run full open if the trail is steep and chunky, and trail for more smooth "trail" conditions, with some moderate pedaling/sprinting, as intended. Smoother big hit races I have run the stiffer trail mode.


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

if that's meant to be a 2011 F32 RLc, I'm not surprised . The first year the Fit cartridge came out they screwed the HSC up way too high. All my earlier RL's were way better.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

rhyko said:


> would anyone else prefer it if they ramped up more progressively? feel like i blow through the travel a little too easily on mine.


 Nope I like a linear fork so it stays nice and high and uses all the travel still. I did everything I could to get mine more linear. What weight are you and what pressure do you run?


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Something else....... More progressive spring curves(more tokens), will also generate a more "backwards" rebound curve. The rebound should hold down somewhat slow coming off full compression, and then be nice and fast near full extension, where you can manually manipulate this rebound speed anyway, so bounce is not a concern. The technology is not possible yet to REALLY control this properly in a fork(that I have seen anyway), so in my opinion, making your fork extra progressive is just hurting you more where it counts. Rebound speed/quality is VERY important, to performance.


----------



## G-AIR (Jan 23, 2004)

Is it suppose to feel like this?

I never run my fork in the pedal setting and very seldom in the lock out. I was tinkering with my fork tonight and noticed in the "pedal" mode it is unchanged for the first cm+ and then hits a noticeable "threshold" where the fork travel becomes much stiffer.. It definitely wasn't smooth through the whole range of travel. I could also breakthrough the "lockout" threshold while putting my weight over the front end.

I have no complaints of the fork in the open setting but the other settings concerned me. 

Do the rest of you feel this sudden firming in the "pedal" setting. Like I said, it happens pretty quickly (just after the first 1 or 2 cm of travel.

TIA


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

That is how it works, you have about 10-15mm of suppleness so that the fork can still track the ground to some degree. The threshold/breakaway itself can be firmed up by running more lsc as well.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

gvs_nz said:


> if that's meant to be a 2011 F32 RLc, I'm not surprised . The first year the Fit cartridge came out they screwed the HSC up way too high. All my earlier RL's were way better.


No. When the 34 first came out it was RLC. 2011 was the last year before CTD came out. You can still order fox forks with RLC dampers which are still better than CTD. At least for a Clydesdale rider.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

thuren said:


> More progressive spring curves(more tokens), will also generate a more "backwards" rebound curve. The rebound should hold down somewhat slow coming off full compression, and then be nice and fast near full extension, where you can manually manipulate this rebound speed anyway, so bounce is not a concern. The technology is not possible yet to REALLY control this properly in a fork(that I have seen anyway), so in my opinion, making your fork extra progressive is just hurting you more where it counts. Rebound speed/quality is VERY important, to performance.


Maybe you know more than I, but can you relate what you posted to this air spring curve from Cane Creek? TIA.


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

spunkmtb said:


> No. When the 34 first came out it was RLC. 2011 was the last year before CTD came out. You can still order fox forks with RLC dampers which are still better than CTD. At least for a Clydesdale rider.


I thought 2012 was the first year of the 34 and the CTD didn't come out till 2013?.Or did they sneak out on some early production models.

If it was 2011 it probably suffered the same overly high HSC as the 32.

Either way i don't know how the Pike rides. I'm just trying to gleen some more info out of current owners.


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

thuren said:


> Something else....... More progressive spring curves(more tokens), will also generate a more "backwards" rebound curve. The rebound should hold down somewhat slow coming off full compression, and then be nice and fast near full extension, where you can manually manipulate this rebound speed anyway, so bounce is not a concern. The technology is not possible yet to REALLY control this properly in a fork(that I have seen anyway), so in my opinion, making your fork extra progressive is just hurting you more where it counts. Rebound speed/quality is VERY important, to performance.


More progressive fork will have higher rebound speed at the top of the stroke but this is on big impacts which are low frequency . Forks usually pack up when they can't handle high frequency low impact hits.Washbord corragation stuff. You'll find a progressive fork actually more supple at low amplitude than a linear fork so rebound speed could even be slower at the end of the stroke. Sure it's higher as you get thru the mid range but once again that's getting more high impact low frequency stuff. A good shimmed rebound damper should have that sorted.After all aren't you setting rebound just enough to prevent top out feedback.Hasn't the Pike got some special fast flow bla bla. 
Most of my forks you've got to bounce hard as a static test to get any noticeable rebound damping and noise . I have got one fork with a basic orifice damping circuit and it is hard to set because the rebound action can be feklt at the top and bottom of stroke and it will either pack up on corrogations if you have it to open or rebound to fast.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Hey Thuren your Signature made me remember something I was thinking about on the trail the other night. I am mostly trying out my tuning on night rides and the temp the other night was 46 degrees when I was on the really crazy part of my descent. Proceeding that section of the trail is about 5 miles of fireroads with nothing that would get the fork up to a nice warmed up working temp. I was wondering if the temp had anything to do with the harsh feeling i am getting when in deep travel (Again as a caveat on my night rides I am holding on for dear life and trying not to go off line). I really have to try and hit this section on a day ride and see what's going on. In other area's that I ride during daylight hours the fork feels great. And still after changing to the Pike I am perceiving less arm fatigue & my recently broken wrist hurts much less since changing to the Pike after & during rides. 

I used to live in Missoula, MT and the majority of my trail riding there really never would have pushed this fork, my bike, or my skills to the limit. Those trails just had beautiful flow.

Anyway the fork I am referencing right now is the 160mm travel Pike 650B. I recently added one token but am going to remove it. I like how it felt without the token in. 

what you said here 
"In my experience, the only time I've had this fork spike hard, was when I got too deep in the travel on successive hits" 
sums up the types of hits I am dealing with. On my fox I just remember it feeling like it was diving. The Pike rides nice and hi for me. It's just something feels off and I can't place the feeling. Again this is on the night rides only on this tough section of trail. Perhaps I need to back the rebound off some. I like the LSC where it's at. I don't feel as if the fork dives at all.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

thuren said:


> Something else....... More progressive spring curves(more tokens), will also generate a more "backwards" rebound curve. The rebound should hold down somewhat slow coming off full compression, and then be nice and fast near full extension, where you can manually manipulate this rebound speed anyway, so bounce is not a concern. The technology is not possible yet to REALLY control this properly in a fork(that I have seen anyway), so in my opinion, making your fork extra progressive is just hurting you more where it counts. Rebound speed/quality is VERY important, to performance.


That's exactly what I found. Running with tokens you just blow thru all the travel fast and then it ramps up and kicks back hard at the end of travel because the HSR is even less controlled. Tokens aren't the answer - more air pressure is for a stiffer linear rate (as both of us have found). I'm running similar LSC and LSR as you which is crazy fast. Leads me to believe there is some tuning magic that Avy or Push can help with (more HSR?). I've never EVER had to run this fast of LSR!

Have FUN!

G MAN

PS - spunkmtb - you're in the middle range with your rebound (LSR), you definitely need to go faster (more clicks out)!


----------



## rhyko (Nov 10, 2008)

i put 2 tokens in, and dropped the sag below 20%, feels ok now, not bottoming out as often. saying that think it may only have been because i was riding quite gnarly DH track on it, i have not bottomed out since riding AM/trail centres etc


----------



## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Gman086 said:


> That's exactly what I found. Running with tokens you just blow thru all the travel fast and then it ramps up and kicks back hard at the end of travel because the HSR is even less controlled. Tokens aren't the answer - more air pressure is for a stiffer linear rate (as both of us have found). I'm running similar LSC and LSR as you which is crazy fast. Leads me to believe there is some tuning magic that Avy or Push can help with (more HSR?). I've never EVER had to run this fast of LSR!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> ...


 So many conflicting results running the tokens.

@Rhyko, how much do you weigh and how much pressure are you running?


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

A lot of the conflict is with the difference between the 29'r and 26/650b versions. And, FWIW, I've found you can run pretty much any configuration you want for trail/AM use and the Pike works pretty darn well. Where it starts to lose face is when you push it deeper into the travel for gnarlier DH/FR trails at higher speeds. I think Sram took the best compromise for trail use when adjusting for the HSC and HSR (both not adjustable). The chassis is so good tho that it's being pushed out of the Trail/AM envelope probably as much as it's intended use. Would love to get my hands on the internals for Stevie Smith's Pike that he won Crankworks Air DH on!!! Sram has different tunes for their rear shocks, would be SICK if they did the same for their forks! Hmm, they actually did that with the Lyrik... Pike DH anyone???!!!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

spunkmtb said:


> Hey Thuren your Signature made me remember something I was thinking about on the trail the other night. I am mostly trying out my tuning on night rides and the temp the other night was 46 degrees when I was on the really crazy part of my descent. Proceeding that section of the trail is about 5 miles of fireroads with nothing that would get the fork up to a nice warmed up working temp. I was wondering if the temp had anything to do with the harsh feeling i am getting when in deep travel (Again as a caveat on my night rides I am holding on for dear life and trying not to go off line). I really have to try and hit this section on a day ride and see what's going on. In other area's that I ride during daylight hours the fork feels great. And still after changing to the Pike I am perceiving less arm fatigue & my recently broken wrist hurts much less since changing to the Pike after & during rides.
> 
> I used to live in Missoula, MT and the majority of my trail riding there really never would have pushed this fork, my bike, or my skills to the limit. Those trails just had beautiful flow.
> 
> ...


I would try speeding up the rebound quite a bit and try it. Fork setup with fast rebound, is very advantageous, if you can learn to ride with it. Rather then ride light through some hits you will start to push into them, as you are not in fear the front end will be packed up for the next impact. Just because it does not feel right on the first 5 min of your ride, does not mean it's wrong. Changes WILL feel wrong, but you need to give them time to see how you adapt to them.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> Maybe you know more than I, but can you relate what you posted to this air spring curve from Cane Creek? TIA.
> 
> View attachment 868358


Abolutely...

More pressure/spring force = faster rebound, so if near MIN stroke/sag height'ish you have your rebound set nice and quick, as it should be, it will be SUPER fast near MAX stroke, bucking you hard. Proportionately, the rebound should be slower at the MAX stroke end, and FAST as the MIN stroke end.

Probably why the trend has gone towards bigger volume cans trying to get that "coil spring" feel. It's not JUST for a linear compression feel, but for a linear rebound feel, too.

To clarify the above..... Lets say your spring curve is SUPER ridiculous progressive. In order to keep from getting bucked over the bars, you will have a lot of rebound damping cranked in. This same rebound damping will create a super slow rebound at Min travel, which is exactly what you don't want.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

gvs_nz said:


> More progressive fork will have higher rebound speed at the top of the stroke but this is on big impacts which are low frequency .


I would not call a 6" tall square edge rock at 25mph low frequency. Even if it were low frequency, like overshooting a jump to flat or something, I would not want the front end popping up fast giving a bounce off bottom out. Traction should be consistent, and a quick jolt rebound while close to bottom deep in the travel, is never desirable, in my opinion. Do you have a scenario, where considerably fast rebound off bottom out, and slower(proportionately) near top out is desirable?


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

gvs_nz said:


> A good shimmed rebound damper should have that sorted.After all aren't you setting rebound just enough to prevent top out feedback.Hasn't the Pike got some special fast flow bla bla.


For sure, but this Pike still seems to be pretty fast on rebound off full compression, and slow near top-out. I run higher than average pressure(I think) at 178psi, and I still run my rebound almost wide open. Running no tokens is to get that coil spring linear feel, on compression AND rebound.


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

thuren said:


> Abolutely...
> 
> More pressure/spring force = faster rebound, so if near MIN stroke/sag height'ish you have your rebound set nice and quick, as it should be, it will be SUPER fast near MAX stroke, bucking you hard. Proportionately, the rebound should be slower at the MAX stroke end, and FAST as the MIN stroke end.
> 
> ...


add to that.. with the too progressive spring curve the HSC closes off faster deep into the travel. Compression coming on like a brick wall definitely amplifies the problem with too fast rebound off bottom out

*has anyone tried low speed rebound wide open (too fast) and then used heavier fluid to dial rebound in with no tokens?


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

thuren said:


> Abolutely...
> 
> o clarify the above..... Lets say your spring curve is SUPER ridiculous progressive. In order to keep from getting bucked over the bars, you will have a lot of rebound damping cranked in. This same rebound damping will create a super slow rebound at Min travel, which is exactly what you don't want.


In reality on most forks it doesn't though. when you've bottomed your fork your body weight helps control the rebound .Not so at top out.That's why I thought most set rebound to prevent feed back from top out. Max dampnig is at the bottom of the stroke and you don't want linear rebound otherwise it would be to slow at the top of the stroke[ simialr to what you get with a fixed orifice rebound]..

Others are saying that you have to wind up the rebound too much to stop feedback at top out on big hits but it compromises rebound speed at the bottom of the stroke because of the Pike special rebound bla bal?

But your saying the opposite? The Pike special rebound thinging is still not quick enough for you at the top end?

That's fork tuning over the internet for you.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

gvs_nz said:


> In reality on most forks it doesn't though. when you've bottomed your fork your body weight helps control the rebound .Not so at top out.That's why I thought most set rebound to prevent feed back from top out. Max dampnig is at the bottom of the stroke and you don't want linear rebound otherwise it would be to slow at the top of the stroke[ simialr to what you get with a fixed orifice rebound]..
> 
> Others are saying that you have to wind up the rebound too much to stop feedback at top out on big hits but it compromises rebound speed at the bottom of the stroke because of the Pike special rebound bla bal?
> 
> ...


Maybe we are a bit lost in translation. I am referencing travel as the graph posted above. Min travel = full extension, and Max travel = full compression


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

Gman086 said:


> A lot of the conflict is with the difference between the 29'r and 26/650b versions. And, FWIW, I've found you can run pretty much any configuration you want for trail/AM use and the Pike works pretty darn well. Where it starts to lose face is when you push it deeper into the travel for gnarlier DH/FR trails at higher speeds. I think Sram took the best compromise for trail use when adjusting for the HSC and HSR (both not adjustable). The chassis is so good tho that it's being pushed out of the Trail/AM envelope probably as much as it's intended use. Would love to get my hands on the internals for Stevie Smith's Pike that he won Crankworks Air DH on!!! Sram has different tunes for their rear shocks, would be SICK if they did the same for their forks! Hmm, they actually did that with the Lyrik... Pike DH anyone???!!!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


To resolve the HSC spike I presume you've tried no tokens, ignoring loss of small bump compliance and travel , and ramping up the pressure to see if there is a cross over between comp damping from the air spring and the hsc circuit.
Rev responds to this reasonably well. The HSC on the rev is higher than that provided by the air spring . Shaft speeds are reduced etc.

Makes your HSR worse though.


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

thuren said:


> Maybe we are a bit lost in translation. I am referencing travel as the graph posted above. Min travel = full extension, and Max travel = full compression


So am I but different terminology.. But I didn't realise the fast rebound system was just a flash name for reducing the rebound damping at full compression .In effect making it more linear anyway. I thought it was faster rebound at full extension. I was skip reading to much and mixed up your response to another riders question in relation to your own experiences.
So you are of the same opinion as others that the Pike HSR is a bit fast at full comp in big hit situations and you compromise rebound at top out.

I got it right this time?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

thuren said:


> Abolutely...
> 
> More pressure/spring force = faster rebound, so if near MIN stroke/sag height'ish you have your rebound set nice and quick, as it should be, it will be SUPER fast near MAX stroke, bucking you hard. Proportionately, the rebound should be slower at the MAX stroke end, and FAST as the MIN stroke end.
> 
> ...


thruen,
Wouldn't this be the reason you differentiate between HSR and LSR? You're statement is sound if the rebound damping was a constant, but it isn't. Full stroke/max travel would load up that air spring like crazy, enough to flow a lot of oil thru the piston and deflect the shim stack, while near full extension the air spring is exponentially weaker and unable to overcome the shims...thus flowing thru the needle'd free bleed port. Screw up where one cuts off and the other takes over and/or insufficient to too much damping, and you'd get your buck or pack-up...and in the case of compression, blowng-thru and spike.

My exp w/ the Pike using my weirdo super-progressive/low psi setup is HSC and HSR are good, mid-shaft speeds is slightly over-damped on compression and at mid-travel, under-damped on rebound (but is okay w/ my setup as the air pressure is less than the similar linear/no token setup). And, at low shaft speeds, the compression is just harsh, but at near full extension the rebound is good (I'm 2-clicks away from full open-rabbit)...slowing it down just shy from being bouncy. So, what I'm trying to accomplish, I believe is to weaken the LSC w/o touching the free-flow across the rebound needle, which means letting the very edge of the base compression shim able to flutter while all else remaining the same.

This is why I'm heading down the Avy mod road because it's more adjustable. But I can see w/ the Avy set up, I can go more linear spring rate as Craig's free bleed ports are tiny, sending more oil thru the piston and shims at lower speeds...and thus damping characteristics are more tweakable thru stacking.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I'm not sure what this "special" rebound valving you all are refering to, but if it's what Rockshox calls "rapid recovery", all it is is a more digressive damping curve. They've been doing this in the monarch shocks since '11. It's just a preloaded shim stack. I haven't spent much time on a Pike, but on the Monarch's it took me awhile to get used to how it rides. Like some have mentioned, the harder you push, the better it works.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Pau11y said:


> thruen,
> Wouldn't this be the reason you differentiate between HSR and LSR? You're statement is sound if the rebound damping was a constant, but it isn't.


I hear you, but at the same time, very few dampers have TRUE LSR and HSR circuits, that actually work. The knobs are there, but I have rarely ever noticed a measurable difference in what the HSR knob is doing. In that regard, I feel the Pike's "Rapid recovery" is not much more than good marketing. If anything, to me, it feels like a good efficient std orifice port rebound, which works well with a linear spring curve.



> This is why I'm heading down the Avy mod road because it's more adjustable. But I can see w/ the Avy set up, I can go more linear spring rate as Craig's free bleed ports are tiny, sending more oil thru the piston and shims at lower speeds...and thus damping characteristics are more tweakable thru stacking.


I personally like simple full orifice rebound control, as the flow is already designed to be more progressive. When tuning rebound with shims, the rebound off of deep in the travel is very fast, which to me is what you don't want. Plus, tuning rebound with shims can change variables a LOT with different rider weights/ability/air/spring pressures, that mandate internal disassembly to correct.

Another way to look at orifice rebound, is referencing the counter, in the way of compression. Orifice compression is terrible, as at high forces(potential shaft speed), there is too much restriction, but it can feel great "in the parking lot". I want that "pressure spike" on rebound, so I can run it very fast at min travel/beg stroke/top out, and have it more controlled and slowed down rebounding off Max travel/ending stroke/full compression/bottom out. This sounds extreme when I say "slowed down", but what I really mean I guess is that I just don't want really FAST rebound right after bottoming the fork, just controlled....


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

So I got my fork sorted out. I first took the token out. Than I thought about it and figured I would give Sram tech support a call and see if they had any suggestions. I told them my settings, the kind of riding I do, what I am perceiving. Basically it came down to the fact that I was trying to set this fork up like how I had to do my fox forks. Tech support said to drop the sag (Add air) to about 20-25% back off my rebound, and play with my LSC. 

I have to say it feels like a brand new fork again. I am running between 23-26% sag (Depending upon the weight of my camelback), 8 clicks out from full turtle, and 5 clicks of LSC. Tech support said my cold temps shouldn't affect the oil at all. I actually rode my test section of trail during day light hours and what a difference it made. But the fork feels immensely better. Gotta get rid of all of those bad habits I picked up from my stock fox forks. I love this Pike.


----------



## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Good to hear. We should make it a rule to post your rider weight and settings, would give people a good starting point! Spunkmtb, lets hear it!


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

socalMX said:


> Good to hear. We should make it a rule to post your rider weight and settings, would give people a good starting point! Spunkmtb, lets hear it!


This is a good idea. But it should include:
What fork you are using
Rider weight
Sag
Rebound
LSC
What part of the country you are riding in
What type of terrain being ridden
Average distance of rides

160mm 650B
235 geared up
23-26% sag
8 clicks rebound from slow
5 clicks LSC
Southern California Los Angles area
Fire roads. Riding the ridges. Steep short climbs up, fast, lose, rutted steep, rocky descents. Some flow depending on the trails. 
15-30 miles

If I were still riding in Missoula Montana my sag and LSC would probably be different. Or even if I was still in VT. The riding in those other locations are so different compared to here.


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

175 with gear
160mm 26" fork
25% sag from 72 psi an no tokens
LSR 12 clicks out from all the way in
LSC 3 clicks in from all the way out
Sedona/Flagstaff riding
Technical single track
20-30 mile rides


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Awesome Spunk! I myself found that this fork works SO much better, with pressure higher than you would think to run. The recommended pressure sticker on the fork leg suggests surprisingly high pressure.

You guys really should put pressure down, in your listed settings, too. People measure sag in different ways, and pressure is finite

edit: Sag is also dependent on wheelbase/chainstay length-ratio, and when in motion, that variable will change, depending on terrain.


----------



## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

I would also appreciate seeing the PSI people are using. I have a new Pike mounted and ready to go, once spring arrives.


----------



## Yody (Jan 21, 2008)

Pau11y said:


> thruen,
> Wouldn't this be the reason you differentiate between HSR and LSR? You're statement is sound if the rebound damping was a constant, but it isn't. Full stroke/max travel would load up that air spring like crazy, enough to flow a lot of oil thru the piston and deflect the shim stack, while near full extension the air spring is exponentially weaker and unable to overcome the shims...thus flowing thru the needle'd free bleed port. Screw up where one cuts off and the other takes over and/or insufficient to too much damping, and you'd get your buck or pack-up...and in the case of compression, blowng-thru and spike.
> 
> My exp w/ the Pike using my weirdo super-progressive/low psi setup is HSC and HSR are good, mid-shaft speeds is slightly over-damped on compression and at mid-travel, under-damped on rebound (but is okay w/ my setup as the air pressure is less than the similar linear/no token setup). And, at low shaft speeds, the compression is just harsh, but at near full extension the rebound is good (I'm 2-clicks away from full open-rabbit)...slowing it down just shy from being bouncy. So, what I'm trying to accomplish, I believe is to weaken the LSC w/o touching the free-flow across the rebound needle, which means letting the very edge of the base compression shim able to flutter while all else remaining the same.
> ...


I can respect a guy who likes to get into the engineering and dynamics of their suspension. Who tweaks and turns and removes and reinstalls. However I think you're going off the deep end with all of this tuning. I dunno how you even enjoy riding your bike with all these thoughts going thru your head, lol! Just put one token in it, 65-70 PSI and set your rebound and compression in the middle and go enjoy the forest. I think you've so over-thought your suspension setup that you've ended up with a setup that doesn't work. These are off road bikes, its gonna be bumpy, your suspension is never going to be perfect in every way. Just go ride!


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

bad andy said:


> I would also appreciate seeing the PSI people are using. I have a new Pike mounted and ready to go, once spring arrives.


You can't really go by PSI. All shock pumps will differ. I am using the Cane Creek Zero Loss Pump at my house. On the trail I used my new RS pump that came with my fork and it read about 10psi less than the CANE creek pump. That's why sag is a better indicator. But FWIW 90psi


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Yody said:


> I can respect a guy who likes to get into the engineering and dynamics of their suspension. Who tweaks and turns and removes and reinstalls. However I think you're going off the deep end with all of this tuning. I dunno how you even enjoy riding your bike with all these thoughts going thru your head, lol! Just put one token in it, 65-70 PSI and set your rebound and compression in the middle and go enjoy the forest. I think you've so over-thought your suspension setup that you've ended up with a setup that doesn't work. These are off road bikes, its gonna be bumpy, your suspension is never going to be perfect in every way. Just go ride!


You know............. It's off topic but this is how I felt about my CCDBA. It is so tune able that I was always thinking about what I could tweak. At work, on rides, at the climbing gym, while talking to my wife. It was driving my riding buddies nuts cause I was whipping that wrench out all the time to change something. But I will say. If you haven't tried one you are truly missing out on rear suspension nirvana.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Yody said:


> I can respect a guy who likes to get into the engineering and dynamics of their suspension. Who tweaks and turns and removes and reinstalls. However I think you're going off the deep end with all of this tuning. I dunno how you even enjoy riding your bike with all these thoughts going thru your head, lol! Just put one token in it, 65-70 PSI and set your rebound and compression in the middle and go enjoy the forest. I think you've so over-thought your suspension setup that you've ended up with a setup that doesn't work. These are off road bikes, its gonna be bumpy, your suspension is never going to be perfect in every way. Just go ride!


Ain't no riding happenin' now...which is why I'm tweaking (knobs and my jones) 
And, I don't know HOW you're getting the message my setup "doesn't work" after reading the bit you quoted?! If anything, I thought I said it was missing just a very small piece from full ideal...

Sent from my MyTouch 4G Slide using Tapatalk


----------



## dcpowpow (Sep 1, 2006)

I seem to be missing something becasue my user manual shows how to install the Maxle and there is nothing about the fork ? Is there anything out there that shows the LCS and rebound and what each knob does and how all this works.
Confusion......


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

spunkmtb said:


> You can't really go by PSI. All shock pumps will differ. I am using the Cane Creek Zero Loss Pump at my house. On the trail I used my new RS pump that came with my fork and it read about 10psi less than the CANE creek pump. That's why sag is a better indicator. But FWIW 90psi


Touché..... I guess BOTH would be good to know!

That said, 1-3 psi off is normal with a pump, but if you have 2 pumps, and one pump 10psi off, you need to toss one of them.

The side of the fork leg goes by PSI too....


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

spunkmtb said:


> You know............. It's off topic but this is how I felt about my CCDBA. It is so tune able that I was always thinking about what I could tweak. At work, on rides, at the climbing gym, while talking to my wife. It was driving my riding buddies nuts cause I was whipping that wrench out all the time to change something. But I will say. If you haven't tried one you are truly missing out on rear suspension nirvana.


In my opinion...... The PIKE is top notch, and the CCDBA as shipped is just, "above average". I already took my CCDBA apart, and custom tuned it, trying to match the performance of the Pike. It's all good now....


----------



## mrlinderley (Mar 25, 2010)

Please could somebody tell me if the lockout is meant to lock the fork out completely? On my 650b RCT3's I can compress the forks when the switch in on lockout.
Cheers
John


----------



## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

No, not fully & I doubt you would want full lock out.


----------



## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

Has anyone had the issue of the fork being sucked down into travel? I have the 650b RC version and It just did that during my last ride. It is sucked down close to the 25% sag marking. I tired uninflating and reinflating as well as taking both side top caps off. I am not sure what else to try besides tearing the whole spring side down.

-Brett


----------



## downhill502 (Feb 22, 2012)

Carraig042 said:


> Has anyone had the issue of the fork being sucked down into travel? I have the 650b RC version and It just did that during my last ride. It is sucked down close to the 25% sag marking. I tired uninflating and reinflating as well as taking both side top caps off. I am not sure what else to try besides tearing the whole spring side down.
> 
> -Brett


Have you tried to balance the negative spring? Let all the air out from your air chamber, then pull up on the fork crown or handlebars while pushing down on the front wheel to fully extend the fork. Then pump your it up to your normal pressure. Sometimes the negative chamber can have more pressure than the positive since there is no service port for it. This saves you from fully disassembling the air spring side to achieve the same result.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mrlinderley said:


> Please could somebody tell me if the lockout is meant to lock the fork out completely? On my 650b RCT3's I can compress the forks when the switch in on lockout.
> Cheers
> John


No, lockouts that completely lock out a fork often cause internal damage and are extremely hard on a fork in an kind of variable terrain. The pike actually has adjustable low-speed damping so you can tune out excessive movement, if that's not enough, there's the "lockout"/climb setting.


----------



## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

downhill502 said:


> Have you tried to balance the negative spring? Let all the air out from your air chamber, then pull up on the fork crown or handlebars while pushing down on the front wheel to fully extend the fork. Then pump your it up to your normal pressure. Sometimes the negative chamber can have more pressure than the positive since there is no service port for it. This saves you from fully disassembling the air spring side to achieve the same result.


I have, I can't pull it up enough when I let the air out.

Brett


----------



## downhill502 (Feb 22, 2012)

Carraig042 said:


> I have, I can't pull it up enough when I let the air out.
> 
> Brett


Damn, probably time to pull apart the air spring


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Carraig042 said:


> I have, I can't pull it up enough when I let the air out.
> 
> Brett


Use the (+) air spring side to help.

Pump your fork up to the highest you've ever pumped it to, minus 10 psi. Equalize (you should see your main chamber air pressure increase a touch), let out another 10, and repeat.


----------



## nixgame22 (Apr 10, 2008)

It could be that the thick jelly-like lubricant used in the lower assembly has clogged the dimple on the inside of your stanchion tube, not allowing the air to equalize. You would need to drop the lowers and clean it if this is the case with your fork.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Check the lower end of the air piston shaft. The solo air Reba/Sid/Revs I've rebuilt have had a valve core that allows bleeding the neg.


----------



## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Added 2 tokens, I weigh 205lbs geared. 55lbs is giving me 30% sag, what gives?


----------



## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

I only have 10wt suspension fluid. The service manual calls for 30wt in the lowers. Can I still use my 10wt in the lowers or would that be bad/cause worse performance?

-Brett


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Carraig042 said:


> I only have 10wt suspension fluid. The service manual calls for 30wt in the lowers. Can I still use my 10wt in the lowers or would that be bad/cause worse performance?
> 
> -Brett


It's lube oil...something's better than nothing.

Got a new rod/piston and I'm about to up my Pike 150 to 160 today. Plan on putting in motor oil (and soak the foam ring w/ it). Been using that stuff (Valvoline 20w50 Maxlife full synthetic) in Fox forks for years to great effect. That stuff seems to soak into and hang on in the foam ring. Also use it in my 888's felt ring. Less than $8 a quart...enough to last you for the rest of your life!


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

socalMX said:


> Added 2 tokens, I weigh 205lbs geared. 55lbs is giving me 30% sag, what gives?


The tokens don't take effect until deeper in the travel. At 205 you should be closer to 75-80psi, and I would run no tokens, so you still get full travel.


----------



## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

thuren said:


> The tokens don't take effect until deeper in the travel. At 205 you should be closer to 75-80psi, and I would run no tokens, so you still get full travel.


Even 70psi have me about 15% sag, if that, standing on the pedals with full weight. Not sure why?

According to what I have read, the tokens do not minimize travel.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

socalMX said:


> Even 70psi have me about 15% sag, if that, standing on the pedals with full weight. Not sure why?
> 
> According to what I have read, the tokens do not minimize travel.


Try it at 70psi then. Have you tried it? I'm 200 geared up, and I run 78psi. I ride what works best, not what the sag number says.

More tokens = more progressive spring curve = harder to bottom out/use full travel.
Less/no tokens = more linear curve = easier to use full travel/bottom out


----------



## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

I keep hearing different opinions here. Is there a correct formula? Many say make sure you get 25-30% sag no matter the pressure. I did ride yesterday at 75psi with no tokens and it felt ok just moved through the travel too quickly for my liking which is why I added the tokens, I heard this is common for heavier riders. Do the tokens affect the amount of pressure needed?


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

I've been running around 27% sag with one token, and I'm starting to think the fork works better with more air in it. I'm going to go to one token and shoot for 20% sag.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

socalMX said:


> I keep hearing different opinions here. Is there a correct formula? Many say make sure you get 25-30% sag no matter the pressure. I did ride yesterday at 75psi with no tokens and it felt ok just moved through the travel too quickly for my liking which is why I added the tokens, I heard this is common for heavier riders. Do the tokens affect the amount of pressure needed?


So, you've basically tried thuren's method. Now, try this:
Put in one more token...total of 3...and then set your sag. Don't worry about your PSI, just set your sag properly, but make a mental note of your pressure once you've set the sag...I think you'll be surprised at how low it is. Back your LSC out to 2 or 3 clicks from full open, and then add more as you ride. Set your rebound at 50% (10 clicks from either end), and back it out as you ride. I'm 8 clicks in from full open, but I tuned my fork biased towards lower speeds of climbing up tech...but it downs just fine...get full travel and don't wallow.


----------



## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

I will try that method with 2 tokens, that is all it came with. When you say correct sag, 25-30% and even if its only 50psi?

This is me second go on a Pike and I must say, this one does feel better over all, not sure what was wrong with the first one?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

socalMX said:


> I will try that method with 2 tokens, that is all it came with. When you say correct sag, 25-30% and even if its only 50psi?
> 
> This is me second go on a Pike and I must say, this one does feel better over all, not sure what was wrong with the first one?


Is your fork a 26, 27.5 or 29er? I think they're 2, 3, 4, respectively for max number of tokens you can put in.

By correct sag I mean whatever you want to ride it at...correct for you. Like, if you ride more XC and run the fork stiff, maybe 20%, and if you ride mostly on rocks like I do, maybe a little more...say 25 to 27%. Personally I find 30% a little too deep, even for DH, but do as you will...it's your fork.

FYI, my Pike is a 29er on a Tallboy LT, 3 tokens in and just shy of 40 psi in the main.

A thought...you may want to pump in like 70 psi and equalize the negative chamber, THEN back off the main chamber psi. I don't like topout clunking, personally.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Bunch of smelly, oily goop on my stanchion just above the left leg seal. What to do? Why'd it happen?


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

thuren said:


> The tokens don't take effect until deeper in the travel. At 205 you should be closer to 75-80psi, and I would run no tokens, so you still get full travel.


My experience a progressive fork actually sags more, even without changing air pressure.One of the reasons they are more active at the bottom end.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

gvs_nz said:


> My experience a progressive fork actually sags more, even without changing air pressure.One of the reasons they are more active at the bottom end.


This isn't true. For the same unsagged air pressure, a fork with a smaller air chamber (more progressive spring curve) is going to reach equilibrium (sag) at an earlier point (shorter compressed distance).

So in principle, adding more tokens means less air pressure to reach the same sag. However, the extent to which this is true really depends on what the spring curve actually looks like (i.e. the absolute volume of the air chamber). I would bet they overlap fairly closely between 0-30% compression.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

hillharman said:


> This isn't true. For the same unsagged air pressure, a fork with a smaller air chamber (more progressive spring curve) is going to reach equilibrium (sag) at an earlier point (shorter compressed distance).
> 
> So in principle, adding more tokens means less air pressure to reach the same sag. However, the extent to which this is true really depends on what the spring curve actually looks like (i.e. the absolute volume of the air chamber). I would bet they overlap fairly closely between 0-30% compression.


Nicely put. I was gonna start whipping out the ideal gas equation...


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

gvs_nz said:


> My experience a progressive fork actually sags more, even without changing air pressure.One of the reasons they are more active at the bottom end.


Say you had a Pike at static 70psi, with no tokens, and measured sag at 20%. If you add tokens, and the static pressure was the same 70psi, the more progressive nature would mean you would HAVE to have less sag, as the pressure will rise more quickly.

For me, I like the front end to stay very high over rough terrain. At the same time, make sure in more drawn out high-G turns(heavy banked man made berms lets say), the front end does not dive when heavy on the front end. This REQUIRES a somewhat higher than average pressure, as compression valving does not play a big part in longer duration forces. After I am set with enough pressure as to not dive hard, I want to use at least 90% of the travel under aggressive/rough riding conditions. This is why I removed the tokens, as after getting my base pressure so it was not diving hard, I was not using all my travel.


----------



## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

So after taking the fork apart, I was finally able to get it to work properly and not suck down into travel. Not sure if this would have caused it, but it was bone dry on the inside. There was no oil in the lowers at all. The foam rings were fine, but that was it. I would advise everyone to check the oil in your lowers! 15ml on non-drive side and 5ml on drive side.

-Brett


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Carraig042 said:


> There was no oil in the lowers at all.
> -Brett


Pretty much par for the course these days, and not just from RS. Almost any new fork these days seems to need a top up of oil from the factory. You have to wonder how it just keeps happening


----------



## spooney (Jun 1, 2010)

Komdotkom said:


> I just got my new pikes from Chain Reaction, failed after 10km.
> The air spring stanchion is damaged on the inside causing the lower leg to be pressurized and blowing the dust seals out.
> I thought that rs had fixed their QC issues....


I had the same issue after servicing the fork where the air side lowers wiper seal would pop out, however the air chamber is not loosing air so ruled out the air escaping into the lowers, I actually reduced the lube oil I put into the lowers from 5ml on the damper side and 15ml on the air side to 5ml on both and prevented the seal from popping out. Also when fitting new seals try to avoid greasing them for pushing them into the lowers but be certain to grease the seals before fitting the upper part of the fork.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Now that it's been a while, I'm thinking more people have changed the oil in their lowers. Is everyone using the Rockshox 0w-30? Something else?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

kragu said:


> Now that it's been a while, I'm thinking more people have changed the oil in their lowers. Is everyone using the Rockshox 0w-30? Something else?


Valvoline MaxLife 20w50 motor oil (full synthetic). Just extended my 150 to 160 this wknd and replaced the lube oil. I've also heard of ppl using Mobile 1 to good effect.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

I've got some Mobil 1 10w-40 and 5w-20 sitting around. Either one of those ok?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

kragu said:


> I've got some Mobil 1 10w-40 and 5w-20 sitting around. Either one of those ok?


I'd go thicker. This is lube oil, yeah, not the squishy stuff inside the damper. I like lube oil to leave a film of oil on things after it's been there. Thicker stuff seems to do that better, but that's me. Wait for some others to chime in and see what they think.

Edit: as much tweaking as I like to do, I don't like to do mandatory maintenance. I like set and forget stuff...I know, sounds contradictory to my tweaking habit


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

Hay all . I have the 160mm 2014 pike . Haveing a little trouble finding the right setup . At 65psi I find they are very very plush but when on Downs they sit low in the travel. Nice plush but maybe to soft ? Do I set sag up in stand up mode ? Or sitting ? And I ALLSO get top out only when I pick the front up from stand still not when I'm on it . But have noticed I get top out in pedal mode if I pull to go up a cerb . Is this the norm ? Right I've now put 70psi in and fork feels to stiff and top out is worse . Hope this all makes sence I'm just trying to get a really good setup . Allways get that feeling I'm not getting the best out of them . Thanks


----------



## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

hillharman said:


> This isn't true. For the same unsagged air pressure, a fork with a smaller air chamber (more progressive spring curve) is going to reach equilibrium (sag) at an earlier point (shorter compressed distance).
> 
> So in principle, adding more tokens means less air pressure to reach the same sag. However, the extent to which this is true really depends on what the spring curve actually looks like (i.e. the absolute volume of the air chamber). I would bet they overlap fairly closely between 0-30% compression.


That was my understanding as well until I started experimenting with vol spacers in some shocks. I was very very surprised at the results I got. Obviously with forks there is no leverage and a higher % stiction.


----------



## Tuff Wheels (Dec 3, 2013)

Pau11y said:


> Use the (+) air spring side to help.
> 
> Pump your fork up to the highest you've ever pumped it to, minus 10 psi. Equalize (you should see your main chamber air pressure increase a touch), let out another 10, and repeat.


Pau11y, what do you mean by equalize, how do you do that?....so your saying pump up fork to say 100psi then "equalize?"...let out 10 psi, then pump back up to 100 and let 10 out again?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Tuff Wheels said:


> Pau11y, what do you mean by equalize, how do you do that?....so your saying pump up fork to say 100psi then "equalize?"...let out 10 psi, then pump back up to 100 and let 10 out again?


What I mean is if you have a fork originally pumped up to 70psi, let's say...and the fork equalized (positive and negative chambers) to that pressure, instead of letting out all the air on the positive chamber and fighting w/ all 70psi of the negative chamber, pump the positive side to 60psi so you only have to fight w/ 10psi in the negative chamber. Once you equalize to the lower pressure, reduce the positive side by another 10psi to 50 and repeat...so you're only fighting 10psi at any one time. Walk this down till you can let out all the air on the positive side so when you equalize the last time, it'll be to atmospheric pressure.

When you equalize, you should be able to hear it, and reflected in the static position of the fork on the sag indicating marks.


----------



## Tuff Wheels (Dec 3, 2013)

Pau11y - ok this may be a really dumb question. As far as I can tell I only have one place to put air in the fork. Are you saying there is another air fitting I was suppose to be pumping up ? A negative and positive?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Tuff Wheels said:


> Pau11y - ok this may be a really dumb question. As far as I can tell I only have one place to put air in the fork. Are you saying there is another air fitting I was suppose to be pumping up ? A negative and positive?


You know how to equalize the two chambers, and the typical shock pump has a button by the gauge to let out air slowly...just think about what I've sent you. I have 100% confidence that you'll figure it out


----------



## ThomasF (Oct 4, 2013)

the low in travel may be caused by a slow rebound rate, but you should also increase psi by about 5, and slightly increase your rebound rate. if the rebound rate is too slow it won't be able to get back to its normal sag before the next hit, but if its too fast it'll try to chuck you off your bike on the big hits, so just play with it.


----------



## ToneLOcust (Jan 31, 2013)

Sorry All I have a quick question. Has anyone tried to convert their pike from a 160mm 26" fork to a 27.5 160mm fork by changing out the lowers? Can it be done? lowers cost around $330.00 vs. $980.00 for a new fork.

Thanks


----------



## Luis M. (Jun 9, 2013)

looking for a 130mm pike.Easy to shorten?


----------



## 2AA (Mar 13, 2007)

ToneLOcust said:


> Sorry All I have a quick question. Has anyone tried to convert their pike from a 160mm 26" fork to a 27.5 160mm fork by changing out the lowers? Can it be done? lowers cost around $330.00 vs. $980.00 for a new fork.
> 
> Thanks


In additional you nee to replace all internal parts, like the air shaft on the left side if you want your fork still on 160mm and not 150mm, and of course rebound damper too.


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Luis M. said:


> looking for a 130mm pike.Easy to shorten?


I'd say no. The RS parts list only includes kits for 120 (29er only), 140 (29er only), 150 and 160 travel.

Using a spacer like you could on earlier RS forks is not an option. You'd mess up the position of a dent in the lowers used for equalizing pos and neg travel relative to the main air piston. And no, the token spacers do not reduce travel, they only make the air spring more progressive.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Luis M. said:


> looking for a 130mm pike.Easy to shorten?


Yes. Cut the air shaft to the desired length and re-tap it.


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Rick Draper said:


> Yes. Cut the air shaft to the desired length and re-tap it.


He said 'easy' ;-)


----------



## ToneLOcust (Jan 31, 2013)

2AA said:


> In additional you nee to replace all internal parts, like the air shaft on the left side if you want your fork still on 160mm and not 150mm, and of course rebound damper too.


2AA Thanks for your reply. I am not changing the travel from 160mm to 150mm. I want to keep 160mm travel for the 27.5. Does anyone know what the parts #'s are for the air shafts and rebound damper, or where I can get them? 
From my logic it seems that the air shafts have to be different lengths for 26" 27.5" and 29" forks dependdant on the travel. However if the travel is the same on the 26" fork say 160mm, and on the 27.5" fork at 160mm the air shafts should be the same length. But going from say 26" to 29" this might not be the case.

any comments?


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

Rick Draper said:


> Yes. Cut the air shaft to the desired length and re-tap it.


what about the rebound side?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

hungrytiger said:


> what about the rebound side?


Don't touch it. Just do the air side then bleed the Charger damper once you have the fork back together. But careful, oil WILL come out when you open that damper's top.


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

ToneLOcust said:


> 2AA Thanks for your reply. I am not changing the travel from 160mm to 150mm. I want to keep 160mm travel for the 27.5. Does anyone know what the parts #'s are for the air shafts and rebound damper, or where I can get them?
> From my logic it seems that the air shafts have to be different lengths for 26" 27.5" and 29" forks dependdant on the travel. However if the travel is the same on the 26" fork say 160mm, and on the 27.5" fork at 160mm the air shafts should be the same length. But going from say 26" to 29" this might not be the case.
> 
> any comments?


Based on the manual, the 26" 160mm air shaft is the same length as a 27.5 150mm, so if you use the same air shaft, the travel will be 150mm. You will need to buy a new air shaft to keep 160mm.

Have you tried contacting sram? you'll get a better answer from them instead of from people who haven't done what you're asking about.


----------



## dragunov (Jun 18, 2008)

Hello guys,

I just got my Pike RCT 3 today together with my new bike (Commencal Meta SX). I noticed that the rebound dial only turns like 4-5 clicks. Is that normal? I tried to turn it with the small screw loose and the i got more clicks...I am a bit confused on how to dial the rebound...can you please help? Unfortunately no info or setup guide on SRAM site. Is there a problem with my fork? 

Thank you,

Dimitris


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

I was posting in here a while back trying to set my fork up on a rough section of trail that has a bit of everything. I bumped into this guy (Curtis Keene) riding the same section doing a filming shoot. Got to watch him make it look easy and effortless. What was classic though was he told me that I had a nice bike. But he also made a specific comment about how good of a fork the Pike is.


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

dragunov said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I just got my Pike RCT 3 today together with my new bike (Commencal Meta SX). I noticed that the rebound dial only turns like 4-5 clicks. Is that normal? I tried to turn it with the small screw loose and the i got more clicks...I am a bit confused on how to dial the rebound...can you please help? Unfortunately no info or setup guide on SRAM site. Is there a problem with my fork?
> 
> ...


Most probably the rebound dial just happened to be installed improperly.

Is that little bolt the lock screw?

Loosen the lock screw on the knob and move the dial to the full closed position. Then tighten the lock screw and return the dial to the position you want.

It happened to me on a Revelation that the Floodgate knob was installed with the dial kind of halfway the dial's position and it was bottoming before reaching getting to full closed (or was it open?).

At any rate, just try to reposition the dial properly.


----------



## dragunov (Jun 18, 2008)

Thank you so much Warp, i think this is the case. Yes, the bolt that i mention is the lock screw (sorry, my english are a bit rusty). The full closed position is to the slowest rebound setting? 

Thanks again


----------



## Ziurpe (Sep 19, 2011)

Hi, How much lenght of the bars are shown when you use low pressures? My Pike 26 160 with 70 PSI doesn't extend to full length. Is it normal?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

That's about where mine sits too.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Ziurpe said:


> Hi, How much lenght of the bars are shown when you use low pressures? My Pike 26 160 with 70 PSI doesn't extend to full length. Is it normal?
> 
> View attachment 871206


I had the same issue with my 29/150, sitting unweighted anywhere from 4-7% sag, until I ran into another issue which led me to take off the lowers and do some service. After emptying out the air sleeve and cycling it up and down a couple of times (no air), then finishing up with some unrelated stuff, it sits right at 0%. Without having to remove the lowers, I would empty the air chamber, cycle the fork a couple of times, then pump it back up.


----------



## Marmoto (Sep 10, 2007)

^+1 Same problem. Same solution


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

dragunov said:


> Thank you so much Warp, i think this is the case. Yes, the bolt that i mention is the lock screw (sorry, my english are a bit rusty). The full closed position is to the slowest rebound setting?
> 
> Thanks again


No worries, English is not my mother language either.

Anyways, yeah, fully closed = slowest. Play a little with it, I can't remember if I did it with the dial full open or closed. I know the issue is related to install the rebound knob with the dial middle of the way and that it bottoms before you can turn it any more.


----------



## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

Dimitris, were you able to fix this using Warp's suggestion?
My new Pike arrived the same way. only 4 clicks of rebound adjument.
Thanks!



dragunov said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I just got my Pike RCT 3 today together with my new bike (Commencal Meta SX). I noticed that the rebound dial only turns like 4-5 clicks. Is that normal? I tried to turn it with the small screw loose and the i got more clicks...I am a bit confused on how to dial the rebound...can you please help? Unfortunately no info or setup guide on SRAM site. Is there a problem with my fork?
> 
> ...


----------



## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

Thanks for posting Dan. Mine arrived with only 4 clicks of adjustent I will try your fix tonight.


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

That rebound knob thing solution worked for mine. Think I had to turn it all the way to open (rabbit) and then tighten the screw though. Should sack the guy on the rebound knob installation line at SRAM!


----------



## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

Thanks Hungrytiger. My fix was pretty simple, I just backed the set screw out about 1/8th of a turn. Worked like a charm and I now get 19 "clicks".

Makes me think I should crack it open to see if there's any oil inside. I wouldn't mind problems so much on an entry level fork, but on these "premium priced" parts, its kind of ridiculous.



hungrytiger said:


> That rebound knob thing solution worked for mine. Think I had to turn it all the way to open (rabbit) and then tighten the screw though. Should sack the guy on the rebound knob installation line at SRAM!


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

New Pike owner. Still in the box waiting on a frame.

Just wondering how long you guys are finding the real world service interval is? Especially guys up here in the PNWet?


----------



## JammerNinerBoxx (Apr 7, 2012)

*Can't get sag right on Pike solo 150mm 29er?*

New Pike owner here, just got my WFO built yesterday. Started to play with the sags and came up with this issue.

I'm 185 pounds with gear. The bike has a monarch plus shock. So went to set sags and the rear shock was 170psi and that got me to 27 percent sag. The Pike I started with 50psi just as a guess and the sag was 5 percent. I was like what the hell, so I doubled checked that I had the fork in open and the rebound in the middle and the LBC was in the middle also. All that checked out good. Then thought the shock pump that I got with the fork was bad. So I have two other shock pumps and they both showed the same. Basically I can let out all of the air and still can't get 30 percent sag. Has anyone ever heard of this with the Pike solo. I mean the fact that I can let all the air out and it doesn't sink all the way down to full travel is confusing.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

JammerNinerBoxx said:


> New Pike owner...
> 
> Basically I can let out all of the air and still can't get 30 percent sag. Has anyone ever heard of this with the Pike solo. I mean the fact that I can let all the air out and it doesn't sink all the way down to full travel is confusing.


Sounds like some kind of obstruction...

My first thought is open up the fork and drop the lowers. This will force you to measure and put in the proper amount of lube oil. Dry or overfilled are both NOT good things on this fork. But while you have the lowers off, pull out the air shaft and bottom plug in the air side, slather a bunch of suspension grease between the air piston and bottom plug...where the wavy spring is. This will keep that piece of crap from making noise when you go full extension. Mine came from the factory gobbed w/ grease on the wavy spring.

Next thought is check to see if someone didn't screw w/ you and stuck in too many tokens on your air side. You might be able to see it when you pull the air spring piston/rod/plug out of the bottom if there's something hinkie in the air side...but might need a light.

While the lowers are off, you should be able to cycle the damper too to see if there's anything wrong w/in that side.


----------



## oilnewby (Jan 13, 2011)

Agreed on the tokens; check on those first and see how many were installed as everyone's seem to be different.

If you still cannot achieve 30% sag after that it sounds like a perfect warranty situation.


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

190 with gear
160mm 650b fork
Unknown sag from 65 psi and 1 token (cant seem to get sag reliably)
LSR 7 clicks in from no rebound 
LSC 5 clicks from no compression
Technical single track


----------



## Theo3bel (Mar 8, 2014)

Hi,

I have a pike 150mm 650b rct3. I like it so far, but I have a little problem /question. When I lift the fork/wheel, the fork drops 2 to 3 mm and it feels like a mechanical stop. It is like there is no damping.
Is this normal?


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

This fork REALLY responds to servicing the lowers(changing oil, cleaning and re-greasing foam ring/seals), seemingly almost more than other forks I have had. I made it 3 months of riding at least 2 hours a week, and my fork started getting sticky. Amazing the "new smoothness" the fork has.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

thuren said:


> This fork REALLY responds to servicing the lowers(changing oil, cleaning and re-greasing foam ring/seals), seemingly almost more than other forks I have had. I made it 3 months of riding at least 2 hours a week, and my fork started getting sticky. Amazing the "new smoothness" the fork has.


Very much agree. I just changed the seals, foam ring, and fresh lower oil also.... it's riding like brand new. I probably had 50 hours on it... the foam rings really needed some love.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Advanced tip----- 

If you do go in and service the damper circuit, make sure and squeeze out as much oil as you can out of the bladder, after bleeding the air out, before sealing up the top needle. When I did my first damper inspection, I put a little too much extra oil in the bladder, making it so it just had a SLIGHT bulge. This extra oil made it so when the bladder expanded INSIDE the stanchion, the stanchion restricted the damper from swelling, restricting the last 1/2" or so of my travel. I only found this out on accident, cycling the damper by hand while still mounted in the uppers.


----------



## project_d (Jun 1, 2007)

I've had my Pike for a few months now (on a Bronson) and I really like the fork. It's a 160mm, 650b, DPA. On my last ride, I started hearing a "click" or "creak" when out of the saddle and pedalling. It sounds like the same noise when your headset needs some love, but it sounds like it is coming from the fork. I have not yet given the fork a lower leg service, so that might be the issue. Has anybody else heard a similar sound from their fork?


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

I had a creak when my bike was brand new, and it was the headset cups in the frame.


----------



## project_d (Jun 1, 2007)

Also, the service manual says to apply "suspension specific grease" to the inside of the dust seals before installing the lowers. Is this a product like Slick Honey?


----------



## downhill502 (Feb 22, 2012)

project_d said:


> Also, the service manual says to apply "suspension specific grease" to the inside of the dust seals before installing the lowers. Is this a product like Slick Honey?


You got it 😄


----------



## project_d (Jun 1, 2007)

Thank you, sir.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Anyone interested:
Based on what Sram tech told me today. 120 and 130mm airshafts should be available in a month.


----------



## Dambala (Jan 22, 2011)

jazzanova said:


> Anyone interested:
> Based on what Sram tech told me today. 120 and 130mm airshafts should be available in a month.


Good Info, Thanks.


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

jazzanova said:


> Anyone interested:
> Based on what Sram tech told me today. 120 and 130mm airshafts should be available in a month.


Any info on what wheelsizes they will be suitable for?


----------



## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Quick question, does the LSC and rebound effect the pike in all 3 settings unlike the Fox CTD?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

MTBMILES said:


> Quick question, does the LSC and rebound effect the pike in all 3 settings unlike the Fox CTD?


The LSC adjusts for the Fully Open setting.
Not totally sure about the Rebound, but I think it adjusts for all three settings.


----------



## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^if there's any confirmation on this, I'm also interested in the answer. Finally got my Pike out today and felt better than any RS fork I've ever ridden, by far (been a Fox devotee for years), but still needs some fine-tuning. I have LSC dialed all the way up, so probably need to add a little air and back it off a little to see how it feels. With Pack, I'm about 167 and started with about 67psi in the fork (solo air, 150mm 29er) and was feeling a little more brake dive than I'd like when fully open/ descending.


----------



## Caol (Mar 18, 2014)

Hello people,

Here is my Pike setup at present, hoping for some discussion and input from others with this fork regarding their specific set up and comparison.

Pike RC 160 650b

1.5 bottomless tokens (cut one down)
70psi
7 clicks from min LSC
Rebound not sure (resonable fast)

rider weight: 70kg with gear.

aggressive trail riding

80% happy with the fork. 

Gd under braking, pumping and support in the corners, big hit absorption and composure when pushed hard are great. 

negatives - feel harsh on small trail bumps and I feel a lack of grip (feels like a lack of give in the suspension) on roots / rocks.

I'm coming from using a 55 RC3 V.2 which had a marked difference in character. So this might me clouding my judgement slightly.



cheers,

Mark


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

JeroenK said:


> Any info on what wheelsizes they will be suitable for?


All of them.
See page 11 in the manual:
https://www.sram.com/sites/default/...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf


----------



## Gary1185 (Mar 18, 2014)

Hello all! 

Apologies for jumping straight in with a problem...

I bought some 150mm Pike RCT3 when they first came out. Installed them on the bike and noticed when I lifted the front wheel, the lowers would extend a further 3-4mm with a bit of a clunk.

Increased the air pressure and pumped them. Which solved it and lead me to believe it was the balance of the negative and positive air springs.

However, a few months down the line and they're doing the same. The air pressure trick hasn't worked this time.

Anyone else had a similar issue?


----------



## project_d (Jun 1, 2007)

alshead said:


> ^if there's any confirmation on this, I'm also interested in the answer. Finally got my Pike out today and felt better than any RS fork I've ever ridden, by far (been a Fox devotee for years), but still needs some fine-tuning. I have LSC dialed all the way up, so probably need to add a little air and back it off a little to see how it feels. With Pack, I'm about 167 and started with about 67psi in the fork (solo air, 150mm 29er) and was feeling a little more brake dive than I'd like when fully open/ descending.


Yes. I had the same sensation. I up'd the air pressure by 10psi (iirc) the backed the LSC to 6 clicks. Now feels very good.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## project_d (Jun 1, 2007)

Gary1185 said:


> Hello all!
> 
> Apologies for jumping straight in with a problem...
> 
> ...


Yes, but I never noticed anything while actually riding. My old Marz 888s did that, too. It's not a red flag to me.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gary1185 (Mar 18, 2014)

project_d said:


> Yes, but I never noticed anything while actually riding. My old Marz 888s did that, too. It's not a red flag to me.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Thanks for that. Managed to get through more of the thread and it does seem a common issue.

Likewise, I've not noticed it while riding. I just can't get my head around why they have this trait...which is annoying me!


----------



## Gary1185 (Mar 18, 2014)

Caol said:


> Hello people,
> 
> Here is my Pike setup at present, hoping for some discussion and input from others with this fork regarding their specific set up and comparison.
> 
> ...


Still tweaking my setup but it's been good for most rides I've done; trails, rooty DH and XC.

150mm
No tokens
6 clicks LSC
8 clicks (I think) HSC
80 PSI

I'm 83kg with bag.

Handles chatter really well but think I might add a couple of PSI for hammering corners and braking support.

Use all the travel but haven't felt it bottom out yet.


----------



## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

jazzanova said:


> Anyone interested:
> Based on what Sram tech told me today. 120 and 130mm airshafts should be available in a month.


My hope had been on the 29er forks that this would then relate to 110 and 100mm of travel for the 130 and 120 airshaft, but interestingly enough the manual does not show that these will work with the 29er... anyone have a clue as to why? Simply they don't think anyone would want that, or is there an issue on the dampner side?

I'd actually like to try the 29er at 110 (more for crown to axle height than anything).

Any thoughts or knowledge out there?

Thanks - GG


----------



## project_d (Jun 1, 2007)

Gary1185 said:


> Thanks for that. Managed to get through more of the thread and it does seem a common issue.
> 
> Likewise, I've not noticed it while riding. I just can't get my head around why they have this trait...which is annoying me!


Yeah, not 100% sure, but my guess is it's something to help it initiate travel and be more supple in the first bit of travel. But really, idunno.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

project_d said:


> Yeah, not 100% sure, but my guess is it's something to help it initiate travel and be more supple in the first bit of travel. But really, idunno.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


With a negative air chamber, there's gonna be a bit of the initial travel where there is no spring force pushing down or up on the air piston keeping the fork "tight". No force on the piston, and yet there's a 2 pound front wheel dangling off the other end of the piston rod...so yeah, there might be a bit of what's gonna feel like slop. Without that dimple to equalize positive and negative air chamber, and hence the slop, you'd have a Fox fork...tho they have a crazy giant negative/topout spring on their piston rods...they used to make good forks, for the time. Now, they're just putting out crappy forks.


----------



## Caol (Mar 18, 2014)

:thumbsup:


----------



## Caol (Mar 18, 2014)

Gary1185 said:


> Still tweaking my setup but it's been good for most rides I've done; trails, rooty DH and XC.
> 
> 150mm
> No tokens
> ...


Cheers for the info. Also it may be useful to try compare : increasing your psi and keeping psi the same and using more LSC. Normally damping will be more affective than spring weight at countering brake dive / corner support.


----------



## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

So this may be a stupid question, but where are the HSC adjustments?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

MTBMILES said:


> So this may be a stupid question, but where are the HSC adjustments?


In the shim stack ;-).


----------



## j-fox (Feb 6, 2014)

Does this sound weird to you guys?

20% sag at 17psi with a 130mm 26” fork; two tokens installed. Rider weight 161lbs.

Can’t push the fork all the way down, even with the schrader valve removed. However, I am able to equalize negative air chamber somewhat.


----------



## Ironbar81 (Mar 22, 2014)

I have a 160mm Pike RC that came on my Enduro Expert 29. What is the general opinion on the best way to reduce dive during braking and cornering without affecting small bump compliance, more psi or more LSC? 

I currently have no tokens installed,( removed the one that came installed), 75psi, 28% sag, 3 clicks LSC, 10 clicks of RB, getting full travel.

Thanks for any advice.


----------



## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^I know this might not be entirely helpful, but I would try the LSC first, in part because it's adjustable on the fly. I often change my LSC throughout a ride (if it's long enough and terrain changes enough). I run mine with the LSC pretty high and like how much it takes out the brake dive.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Ironbar81 said:


> I have a 160mm Pike RC that came on my Enduro Expert 29. What is the general opinion on the best way to reduce dive during braking and cornering without affecting small bump compliance, more psi or more LSC?
> 
> I currently have no tokens installed,( removed the one that came installed), 75psi, 28% sag, 3 clicks LSC, 10 clicks of RB, getting full travel.
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


I would consider running more air pressure as well. Like you, I run without any tokens (150mm, 29er) and I've found that the fork works best allowing it to ride high in the travel and trusting the linearity of the fork to work. Also, consider the features that are causing you to get full travel. Are they really worthy of full travel on a 160mm fork? The highest quality part of the travel is early in the stroke, and the beauty of the Pike is that with its linear stroke, you can run up there while still having access to most of the travel. I think a lot of people have been condition by the super progressive Fox forks of years past to run really deep sag, but it's not necessary with the Pike.


----------



## Ironbar81 (Mar 22, 2014)

Thanks for the replies guys.

The trails I'm riding are a nice variety of fast loose rocky sections with some 2-3-4' drops, some steep boulder descents and some winding rooty forest descents to. Coming from my previous bike, an Epic 29 with just 100mm travel fork I suppose I'm conditioned to expect full travel from my fork every time. This is my first time on a bike with this much travel and I was so instantly blow away by its ability to float over the rough stuff that I'm maybe reluctant to give up any of the forks buttery smoothness but I definitely need to sort the diving issue as it just feels wrong to be sinking so deep up front under braking and fast tight cornering. 

I've just up't my psi to 80 and my sag is now around 22% so I'll see how that goes on the trail later in the week. Regarding the LSC, are you putting more wear/potential for damage on the internals by hitting rough stuff or big drops with this turned up high?


----------



## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

I suppose that might be a concern, but it's not going to prevents from tuning the fork to ride how I need it to. I always ran compression damping pretty high in my Fox RLC forks as well. I hate the sensation of brake dive coming into switchbacks and technical pitches, and I don't feel like I'm losing a ton on the small stuff.


----------



## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

I took my new Pike 160 out for its mayden voyage yesterday. Good ride. Worked on it this morning getting ready for another ride and was going to change the psi and rebound. Started looking at the Pike and the left top seal completely popped off, so it won't hold any air. Any easy way to get that back in? Tried lightly trying to push it down with a screwdriver, but was afraid to do damage to the seal and the sanction. Damn, so much for my ride this morning. Can't believe that seal would pop out after one ride. Any ideas for a quick fix would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

If it popped out on the trail, I would pull the lowers and give them a good scrubbing with isopropyl and toilet bowl brush. It is likely that dirt contaminants made their way in if the seals popped out, pushing the seals back on will only trap those contaminants inside. That grit will f your fork, guaranteed.


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

While the lowers are pulled, you can press the seal back on with 1.5" ID pvc pipe


----------



## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

half_man_half_scab said:


> While the lowers are pulled, you can press the seal back on with 1.5" ID pvc pipe


Thanks, that's good info.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ironbar81 (Mar 22, 2014)

Would adding tokens effect braking dive in anyway? I'm thinking with maybe three tokens installed and a lower psi would keep the first 60mm supple while ramping the pressure under braking and reducing dive? Am I off the mark with this thought?


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Ironbar81 said:


> Would adding tokens effect braking dive in anyway? I'm thinking with maybe three tokens installed and a lower psi would keep the first 60mm supple while ramping the pressure under braking and reducing dive? Am I off the mark with this thought?


It would actually be the opposite. Using more tokens and lower pressures will result in a flatter beginning of the stroke, which is where brake dive matters.


----------



## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Thanks halfman, I will watch the videos and pull the lowers to put back on. Never done that before. I am worried that there is more of a root problem than simply putting the seal back in place.


----------



## j-fox (Feb 6, 2014)

dawgman25 said:


> I took my new Pike 160 out for its mayden voyage yesterday. Good ride. Worked on it this morning getting ready for another ride and was going to change the psi and rebound. Started looking at the Pike and the left top seal completely popped off, so it won't hold any air. Any easy way to get that back in? Tried lightly trying to push it down with a screwdriver, but was afraid to do damage to the seal and the sanction. Damn, so much for my ride this morning. Can't believe that seal would pop out after one ride. Any ideas for a quick fix would be greatly appreciated!


The reason it popped out is because the fork was assembled with a positive air gap between the lowers and uppers on the air shaft side, and the foam ring was likely dry or very nearly so.

When you compressed the fork on a big hit or similar, you forced that positive air gap in the lowers to push against the dust wiper seal, causing it to pop out. You can pressurize the fork just fine - in fact now the fork will pressurize according to the psi chart on the side.

To get the dust wiper back in, let all the air out of the fork and remove the schrader valve, then take a lint free rag and alcohol, wet the rag, and take a small object (I used the back of tweezers) to push the rag down into the lowers while the foam ring and dust wiper are raised on the shaft. Get some 0w30 oil and wet the foam ring on the stanchion until it doesn't look dry anymore. Take the foam ring and gently push it down into the lowers without smashing it and squeezing the oil out, then once you have it in place, use the rag with alcohol to clean once again around the upper lip of the lowers where the dust wiper will sit above the foam ring. Clean the stanchion with the rag, and the dust wiper, then gently push the uppers down until the dust wiper is touching the lowers. Push the edges of the dust wiper down into the lowers with a plastic tire lever or similar, being careful not to push it in too far. Use the other dust wiper as a guide.

Re-inflate the fork to whatever weight you are on the chart and clean around the dust wiper and stanchion with the rag. You're done.


----------



## j-fox (Feb 6, 2014)

half_man_half_scab said:


> If it popped out on the trail, I would pull the lowers and give them a good scrubbing with isopropyl and toilet bowl brush. It is likely that dirt contaminants made their way in if the seals popped out, pushing the seals back on will only trap those contaminants inside. That grit will f your fork, guaranteed.


Anything that made it down into the fork is too small to worry about. If he did several rides on it then I'd worry, but there's 15ml of oil in the bottom; worst case scenario is it gets a little dirty. Taking the thing apart requires new crush washers and oil, although it would give an opportunity to re-soak the drive side foam ring in oil as well.

Dawgman, if you go this route make sure to push the lowers all the way up to the crown and hold it there while you tighten the lower bolts. this will prevent any positive air gap from forming in the non-drive side. You'll have to do with on a repair stand with the fork inverted so the oil stays in during assembly.


----------



## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

I think there might be something else wrong. The fact there was no air in the shock this morning after my ride yesterday had me concerned. I pumped it up to 75 PSI and checked an hour later, it was down to 30 PSI. It seems like it is not holding air. Is it possible there is a leak in the air cartridge and that pushed the seal out? 

I am sure I would have noticed having no air in that fork if I was riding it that way. Being 225 pounds and taking hits at the end of my final run, I am sure I would have been bottoming out. It seems as if this seal came off after the ride.

Thanks for the info on how to get the dust seal back in. Just afraid to do that thinking there might be something else wrong. BTW, the foam ring was soaked in oil, so it wasn't dry.


----------



## j-fox (Feb 6, 2014)

dawgman25 said:


> I think there might be something else wrong. The fact there was no air in the shock this morning after my ride yesterday had me concerned. I pumped it up to 75 PSI and checked an hour later, it was down to 30 PSI. It seems like it is not holding air. Is it possible there is a leak in the air cartridge and that pushed the seal out?
> 
> I am sure I would have noticed having no air in that fork if I was riding it that way. Being 225 pounds and taking hits at the end of my final run, I am sure I would have been bottoming out. It seems as if this seal came off after the ride.
> 
> Thanks for the info on how to get the dust seal back in. Just afraid to do that thinking there might be something else wrong. BTW, the foam ring was soaked in oil, so it wasn't dry.


I had the same problem. You can do a seal replacement on the air shaft if you'd like, paying special attention to the internal o-ring and scraper. You gotta LOAD the shaft and o rings with Slick Honey before resembling. If it's leaking air it will continue to create a pressurized pocket between the lowers and uppers, causing the dust wiper to pop out again. If the foam ring looked like a lighter color anywhere, it wasn't fully soaked. It's visibly darker once it absorbs enough oil.

Another symptom of this is you will notice that the fork requires far less pressure than indicated on the chart to achieve desired sag.


----------



## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

So did you fix it yourself or warranty it? Hoping I can get if fixed locally without having to send it back, but not sure how the warranty would work. I bought it from Art's. Would SRAM allow me to warranty at a local dealer?


----------



## j-fox (Feb 6, 2014)

dawgman25 said:


> So did you fix it yourself or warranty it? Hoping I can get if fixed locally without having to send it back, but not sure how the warranty would work. I bought it from Art's. Would SRAM allow me to warranty at a local dealer?


Yes, but they don't let you work with them directly for warranty service. They want to go through dealers. They're trying to be friendly to LBS this way, kinda like how they put torx bolts in stupid places hoping the home mechanic will see them and give up.


----------



## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

I have a few authorized SRAM dealers locally, so would they take care of it and bill SRAM? Or do the local dealerships just take the fork and send it back to SRAM? Trying to figure this out so I don't get the cold shoulder taking into a local SRAM dealership as I didn't buy it there.


----------



## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Does anybody know how hard/expensive it is to swap internals from solo to dual air for a Pike?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

zorg said:


> Does anybody know how hard/expensive it is to swap internals from solo to dual air for a Pike?


You mean Solo air to Dual position air? Dual air is a different older technology all together.

You need a new CSU (crown steer unit) and all the airspring parts from the air leg of a dual position air fork setup. Its likely to be quite costly.


----------



## Caol (Mar 18, 2014)

Ref -

The guys that had issues with their Pike's staying stuck in to their travel - Were these problems resolved with an air leg check and service?

My RC 160 650b have just developed the same problem.

Solo air leg


----------



## Caol (Mar 18, 2014)

Pau11y said:


> You know how to equalize the two chambers, and the typical shock pump has a button by the gauge to let out air slowly...just think about what I've sent you. I have 100% confidence that you'll figure it out


I'm lost like the other guy. care to explain a bit more? are you talking about solo air?


----------



## Paris Galanis (Sep 5, 2013)

Hi. I have a Reign SX with a friend 170mm Domain and I am thinking to switch to a Pike but in order to maintain the same a2c I am thinking to buy the 160 27.5 one and who knows maybe in the future I will also put a 27.5 wheel. Did anyone else tried a 27.5 Pike in a 26 bicycle?

Also I am also considering a Lyrik DH instead. Had anyone tried them both?


----------



## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Just an update, I had to send the fork back to SRAM for warranty. Not exactly the plan after 1 short ride. Local shop thinks it is either the air seal or the shaft itself. Won't know until I get it back. The air that was leaking is what popped the dust seal. It didn't have anywhere to go. Tried pumping it up several times to 75 psi and the air would be completely gone within an hour.

Anyone else had this problem? Local shop hadn't seen or heard of this happening before.


----------



## nomütze1 (Mar 22, 2008)

Yes, same with mine 29er 150 SA...completely lost air within hours. Got a new one instead.
However, the new Pike came with the creaky crown issue....hmm

Gesendet von meinem U9200 mit Tapatalk


----------



## thrower78 (Dec 11, 2006)

I have a pike on my 2014 wfo and the steerer has just started creaking and clicking badly. Anyone one else experience this? 

Sent from my ZTE T83 using Tapatalk


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

thrower78 said:


> I have a pike on my 2014 wfo and the steerer has just started creaking and clicking badly. Anyone one else experience this?
> 
> Sent from my ZTE T83 using Tapatalk


And when you greased the headset/cups nothing changed?


----------



## thrower78 (Dec 11, 2006)

Yep greased headset, stem steerer interface, bar stem interface, bolts axle etc nothing changed 

Sent from my ZTE T83 using Tapatalk


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Bummer sounds like it's time to go back for warranty. My bike creaked BAD when new, and I thought it was the fork crown also, but after greasing the headset everywhere it has been silent for months.


----------



## thrower78 (Dec 11, 2006)

Hmmm yeah I assumed headset straight away. Might have to give it another crack before I annoy the bike shop 

Sent from my ZTE T83 using Tapatalk


----------



## thrower78 (Dec 11, 2006)

thuren said:


> Bummer sounds like it's time to go back for warranty. My bike creaked BAD when new, and I thought it was the fork crown also, but after greasing the headset everywhere it has been silent for months.


Are you talking the headset cup interface with the frame or just inside the headset, bearings etc? 
I greased everywhere inside the headset cups and around bearings I could but did not remove the cups. The clicking and creaking I can feel through the handle bars specifically the clicking noise I can feel

Sent from my ZTE T83 using Tapatalk


----------



## Marmoto (Sep 10, 2007)

I had a bad cracking noise. I replaced the OEM IS FSA headset by a Cane Creek 110 and all the noises and water ingres in the HT completely disappeared. Expensive but effective solution. 

Enviado desde mi GT-I8190 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

thrower78 said:


> Yep greased headset, stem steerer interface, bar stem interface, bolts axle etc nothing changed
> 
> Sent from my ZTE T83 using Tapatalk


Can you do me a favor and tell me what the numbers are stamped on the underside of your crown? I am trying to figure out if it says the offset,my says 51 014 and I'm trying to confirm that the 46mm offset have 46 ____ stamped on them. Thank you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

Does anyone has a picture with a 27.5 Pike running a 26 wheel on it since I'm planning to go for this option and I wonder if it looks funny in any way with the higher arch. Any other reasons why not to go for it?


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

Bogdan_mb said:


> Does anyone has a picture with a 27.5 Pike running a 26 wheel on it since I'm planning to go for this option and I wonder if it looks funny in any way with the higher arch. Any other reasons why not to go for it?


Yes, I have that. Put it this way, no-one has noticed.... you have to tell them its a 650b fork (only 10mm difference)


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

On what bike do you have it? I'm a little worried that adding 25 mm in Axle to crown would make the front unstable. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Brand new Pike owner. Haven't read through all the pages but it sounds like I need to check some stuff before I install. Can anyone sum it up for me in a nutshell?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

hungrytiger said:


> Yes, I have that. Put it this way, no-one has noticed.... you have to tell them its a 650b fork (only 10mm difference)


When I get the Charger Boxxer, I think I'd opt for the 27.5 lowers. I was looking at the tire to arch clearance...kinda tight! It's also tight on my 29er w/ a DHF 2.5.


----------



## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

thrower78 said:


> Hmmm yeah I assumed headset straight away. Might have to give it another crack before I annoy the bike shop
> 
> Sent from my ZTE T83 using Tapatalk


The best way to check for a crown steer unit creak is the following procedure. Put your bike upside down on the grips and seat. Take the front wheel off. Straddle the bike with your feet on the grips, grab the fork lowers and twist back and forth. You should be able to isolate the noise that way. Good luck.


----------



## project_d (Jun 1, 2007)

^Assuming that works, that's a very informative post. Thank you! I just developed a mild creak (although maybe from cables?), and I will use this to see if it is actually the steer tube/crown interface. If it is, should I just use some lubricant like silicone wd40?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Uhm, actually you can just hold the front tire between your legs and twist the bars. If that makes the creak then it is the fork crown. If not and it creaks when you press straight down on the bars then it is likely a creaking headset.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I feel like such a noob asking this, but I gotta start somewhere... when everything is referring to 'filling up or topping off the oil'.... How is that done? I read through the manual but am not exactly sure how one would 'top it off'.

RCT3 SA model, if it matters.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I feel like such a noob asking this, but I gotta start somewhere... when everything is referring to 'filling up or topping off the oil'.... How is that done? I read through the manual but am not exactly sure how one would 'top it off'.
> 
> RCT3 SA model, if it matters.


Link us to the manual you're talking about, and the page where you're seeing your citation.

Sounds like Charger bleeding, but just a guess w/o context.

Sent from my MyTouch 4G Slide using Tapatalk


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

After reading this thread it seems some folks were having issues with their lower tube oil levels being low from the factory (at least I think that's what people were referring to). I was just curious how I can check that and then refill the tubes without having to disassemble too much. Most of what I am referring to appears to be on pages 37-38 in the service manual.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> After reading this thread it seems some folks were having issues with their lower tube oil levels being low from the factory (at least I think that's what people were referring to). I was just curious how I can check that and then refill the tubes without having to disassemble too much. Most of what I am referring to appears to be on pages 37-38 in the service manual.


The Service Manual is the answer you are looking for. https://www.sram.com/sites/default/...00004461_rev_a_2014_pike_service_manual_0.pdf

If you are already reading it you've got the info you need to work on your fork. :thumbsup:

The easy way to get this done is to pay a mechanic to do it for you if you are not up for taking the fork apart at home.


----------



## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

^^^just follow the procedures for lower leg removal and reassembly in the RS manual. no need to replace the oil seals (as long as they're not damaged) if all you want to do is refresh the bath oil in the lowers, so just skip those steps.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

vikb said:


> The easy way to get this done is to pay a mechanic to do it for you if you are not up for taking the fork apart at home.


Nah... If all you want to do is check oil level, it's a 10 min thing. Just crack the footnut and drain the lowers w/o completely dropping the lowers...just enough to let the oil out. Then, measure out the appropriate amount of motor oil (I like 20w50 Valvoline MaxLife) and shoot it into the lowers thru the footnut hole.

This is what I'd do if I know for certain the fork doesn't need any other work done...no leaky seals, etc.

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Pau11y said:


> Nah... If all you want to do is check oil level, it's a 10 min thing. Just crack the footnut and drain the lowers w/o completely dropping the lowers...just enough to let the oil out. Then, measure out the appropriate amount of motor oil (I like 20w50 Valvoline MaxLife) and shoot it into the lowers thru the footnut hole.
> 
> This is what I'd do if I know for certain the fork doesn't need any other work done...no leaky seals, etc.


Not everyone wants to do that. The service manual gives you the info for the DIY folks and if that is more than you want to deal with you have a mechanic.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

vikb said:


> Not everyone wants to do that. The service manual gives you the info for the DIY folks and if that is more than you want to deal with you have a mechanic.


That is true...just figured since he's already digging into the manual and asking about topping off oil that he's prob already on the page of a DYIer.

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Pau11y & vikb (fellow Krampus owner... high fives all around)...

Thank you for your feedback and the information. Both of you provided what I was looking for. Since the fork is brand spanking new, all I really want to do is check the fluid levels and _not_ take everything apart. It sounds like the easiest way to do that is to just pop the bottom bolts / caps off, drain the existing fluid, measure out the new stuff, and inject it.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Pau11y & vikb (fellow Krampus owner... high fives all around)...
> 
> Thank you for your feedback and the information. Both of you provided what I was looking for. Since the fork is brand spanking new, all I really want to do is check the fluid levels and _not_ take everything apart. It sounds like the easiest way to do that is to just pop the bottom bolts / caps off, drain the existing fluid, measure out the new stuff, and inject it.


Check your local vet, Walgreen, or farm/feed stores for cheap syringes w/ volume marks. Good luck, go slow, and have fun...it's your first time I'm assuming? You see it's not any more difficult than changing the oil in you car 

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Pau11y said:


> Check your local vet, Walgreen, or farm/feed stores for cheap syringes w/ volume marks. Good luck, go slow, and have fun...it's your first time I'm assuming? You see it's not any more difficult than changing the oil in you car
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk


First time.  The manual states to replace the O-rings and crush washers and such. Is that something they put in their to save their arses or is that something that really needs to be done each time?

I'll check the adjustment knobs before I install as well. Seems some people have problems with those too.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Gouda Cheez said:


> First time.  The manual states to replace the O-rings and crush washers and such. Is that something they put in their to save their arses or is that something that really needs to be done each time?
> 
> I'll check the adjustment knobs before I install as well. Seems some people have problems with those too.


I reused mine when I swapped air piston/rod to extended the travel w/o issue.

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk


----------



## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

the reason you should drop the lowers completely when you change the bath oil is because, if the oil in your lowers is low, chances are the foam rings are dry too. you should pull the foam rings, clean and soak them in fresh oil, before reinstalling the lowers and refilling with bath oil. as long as the o-rings and crush washers are clean and undamaged you should be fine reusing them.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Gotcha. Probably wouldn't be bad practice either. Any average motor oil works well?


----------



## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Gotcha. Probably wouldn't be bad practice either. Any average motor oil works well?


No, the oil needs to be 100% synthetic as to not affect o-rings and seals. Mobil 1 is a good one.


----------



## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

How much oil goes in the lowers, is it different between models?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

blcman said:


> No, the oil needs to be 100% synthetic as to not affect o-rings and seals. Mobil 1 is a good one.


Hum...so I did some digging on the Valvoline MaxLife 20w50 to verify that it is full synthetic...strictly out of curiosity for myself. As it turns out it is NOT a full synthetic, but a synthetic blend w/ a bunch of seal conditioners in it.

I've been using this stuff in:
Fox 36 Float RC2 2007 model
Fox 32 Float RLC (130 - 2004 model, 150 - 2011 model)
Fox DHX Air 5 (from a 2007 Nomad MK1)
Fox RP23 (from my Tallboy LTc) 
Monarch Plus RC3
...and now, the Pike
In all forks as lube oil and in rear shocks as main air piston lube in the air can. Haven't had seals swell.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

What weight are you guys using? I've read anywhere from 0-30 to 20-50.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Gouda Cheez said:


> What weight are you guys using? I've read anywhere from 0-30 to 20-50.


This point almost doesn't matter...it's lube oil so viscosity isn't too much of an issue, within reason. It won't ever get hot enough for it to start changing...I mean engine temps are what, like 220F?

The reasoning why I went w/ motor oil was because it was designed to be consistent in WAY harsh environment than what a fork is capable of generating and still remain slippery. And, it's also designed to "hang on" to any surface it gets on...sounds pretty damn perfect to me. Then, I realized I wasn't the only one on this page 

That said, I think someone did do a test comparing motor oil to Fox green fork oil, and the Fox was even slipperier. But at $8/bottle vs $24/bottle (?) for the fox...is the Fox THAT much slipperier?

Edit: ...and I'm really cheap!


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Digging more into the manual... it seems you have to take apart quite a lot of stuff to get to the foam rings. Do those really need to be soaked and/or replaced if the lower legs are low on fluid from the factory? Just curious and trying to learn.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Digging more into the manual... it seems you have to take apart quite a lot of stuff to get to the foam rings. Do those really need to be soaked and/or replaced if the lower legs are low on fluid from the factory? Just curious and trying to learn.


If you are going to drop the lowers, and mtbmiles DOES have a point, then you'll be able to see the foam ring when you have the lowers in hand. It'll be pretty self explanatory what you can do WHEN you do it.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Seems that way. Looks like you need to pull out the seals to access the foam ring, yeah?

I hope you all don't mind me asking these questions.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Just because an oil is 100% synthetic it doesn't mean that it will not affect seal/o-ring dimensions and durometer. The Maxima 0w30 used on the Pike has ingredients that counteract the seal swell that comes naturally with using ester based oils, producing a close to 0% net change in size and durometer.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Stupid question #10 - foam rings... do they need to be replaced with NEW rings whenever you pull the fork apart?


----------



## GS Spirit (May 4, 2008)

Can anyone tell me exactly what is supposed to be in the box for a Pike 140mm solo 29" fork? I just got a pair but it looks like an opened box.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

GS Spirit said:


> Can anyone tell me exactly what is supposed to be in the box for a Pike 140mm solo 29" fork? I just got a pair but it looks like an opened box.


Mine came with:

---four of the 'bottomless tokens' -- two installed from factory under the aircap and two extras
---one basic seal/service kit


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

addATX said:


> Mine came with:
> 
> ---four of the 'bottomless tokens' -- two installed from factory under the aircap and two extras
> ---one basic seal/service kit


Huh, that interesting.. I know we're talking 29er Pike's here but my 27.5 160mm Pike came with only 3 bottomless tokens (which I think might be the expected amount for 27.5 160mm) but my box didn't include the basic service kit.

Mine also came with the Rockshox shock pump, and a zip lock bag that included the manual, two zip ties and a star nut.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

regularbob said:


> Huh, that interesting.. I know we're talking 29er Pike's here but my 27.5 160mm Pike came with only 3 bottomless tokens (which I think might be the expected amount for 27.5 160mm) but my box didn't include the basic service kit.
> 
> Mine also came with the Rockshox shock pump, and a zip lock bag that included the manual, two zip ties and a star nut.


Ooops, yeah, forgot about the shock pump and star nut.

But, yeah, I think the 29 might be the only one that came with four of the tokens. 
I know someone else who didn't get the basic service kit with their new Pike... weird. Glad I got one with mine! They're running $40 at my LBS...


----------



## GS Spirit (May 4, 2008)

was there a warranty card?

So I am missing the seal kit but have all the other stuff

Thanks for the quick response


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

My 29er 150 came w/ 3 tokens...1 pre-installed, pump, seal/foam ring kit, star nut and manual in a baggie.


----------



## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

I know this is probably somewhere in the 33 pages of advice here, so I apologize, but I just don't have the time today to scroll through it all...

I have a Pike 150 29er. What exactly will I _experience_ if I add (or remove) the bottomless tokens? I believe the fork comes with one installed. I am 170 fully kitted up and have the fork set around 75 psi and am cranking LSC almost all the way up as I feel a lot of brake dive when it's in descend mode, but I'm also not sure I'm getting full travel out of the fork (have still only had it on about 5 rides, not many with significant chunk).


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Pau11y said:


> My 29er 150 came w/ 3 tokens...1 pre-installed, pump, seal/foam ring kit, star nut and manual in a baggie.


My 140 was similar, except I received 2 tokens.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

double post


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

alshead said:


> I know this is probably somewhere in the 33 pages of advice here, so I apologize, but I just don't have the time today to scroll through it all...
> 
> I have a Pike 150 29er. What exactly will I _experience_ if I add (or remove) the bottomless tokens? I believe the fork comes with one installed. I am 170 fully kitted up and have the fork set around 75 psi and am cranking LSC almost all the way up as I feel a lot of brake dive when it's in descend mode, but I'm also not sure I'm getting full travel out of the fork (have still only had it on about 5 rides, not many with significant chunk).


Shawn explains


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Sorry for what must seem a stupid misunderstanding, but help is appreciated. I have tried to read a lot of this thread. I have seen the 130-160mm dual position described as having infinite travel adjustment between 130 and 160mm (perfect for here where 160 is an occasional option and 130 as the go-to travel is less desirable than 140 or 150), but the name dual position suggestions you choose 130 or 160mm only. Reviews seem to avoid discussing the travel adjustment. If someone can clarify this, I would appreciate it. Thanks


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

Ridnparadise said:


> Sorry for what must seem a stupid misunderstanding, but help is appreciated. I have tried to read a lot of this thread. I have seen the 130-160mm dual position described as having infinite travel adjustment between 130 and 160mm (perfect for here where 160 is an occasional option and 130 as the go-to travel is less desirable than 140 or 150), but the name dual position suggestions you choose 130 or 160mm only. Reviews seem to avoid discussing the travel adjustment. If someone can clarify this, I would appreciate it. Thanks


That's not the way I understand the Dual Position to work. I think it's supposed to be in the longer travel position for most of your ride, but allow for the travel adjust for climbs.

Now, there are options for changing your overall travel by buying replacement airshafts (converting a 160mm to 140mm, for example), but, the DPA is not going to give you more than the one change in travel it provides.


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

DPA gives you 2 travel positions: high and low. No infinite travel adjustment.


----------



## lubes17319 (Dec 19, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> My 29er 150 came w/ 3 tokens...1 pre-installed, pump, seal/foam ring kit, star nut and manual in a baggie.


Same as mine.


----------



## TheProphet (May 31, 2005)

Just curious if anyone has had experience in converting a 26" Pike to 27.5 or 29? Aside from buying the proper lowers, what else will be required? Cartiage? Damper assembly?


----------



## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

For those of you who have the Pike I am looking for some advice. I am about to order a new Niner RIP 9. It comes with the Revelation 130mm but there seems to be a lot of guys running a Pike with 140mm. I am considering having the dealer trade up to a pike but have concerns it is too much fork/travel for my needs. To be honest I ride mostly XC to trail conditions. Mostly deal with roots on drops 2' or less. I weigh 170 with gear and consider myself a smooth rider. I have concerns the 140 pike would turn the bike to more than I need as I have to still climb and keep pace with my riding buddies on XC rigs. I am coming off a 120mm Fox CTD fork. I did ride a Niner with the Revelation 130mm and liked it, seemed smoother than my fox fork. The dealer said they would swap for $400. The Rip 9 was designed for a 120-140mm travel fork for those who are not familiar with the bike. 

I just don't want to bike off more than I can chew. tomorrow is the ordering day!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

Also what pump does the fork come with?

High Pressure Fork/Shock Pump 300 psi | SRAM
High Pressure Fork/Shock Pump 600 psi | SRAM


----------



## pdqmach26 (Jul 24, 2011)

stygz1 said:


> For those of you who have the Pike I am looking for some advice. I am about to order a new Niner RIP 9. It comes with the Revelation 130mm but there seems to be a lot of guys running a Pike with 140mm. I am considering having the dealer trade up to a pike but have concerns it is too much fork/travel for my needs. To be honest I ride mostly XC to trail conditions. Mostly deal with roots on drops 2' or less. I weigh 170 with gear and consider myself a smooth rider. I have concerns the 140 pike would turn the bike to more than I need as I have to still climb and keep pace with my riding buddies on XC rigs. I am coming off a 120mm Fox CTD fork. I did ride a Niner with the Revelation 130mm and liked it, seemed smoother than my fox fork. The dealer said they would swap for $400. The Rip 9 was designed for a 120-140mm travel fork for those who are not familiar with the bike.
> 
> I just don't want to bike off more than I can chew. tomorrow is the ordering day!
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Order the bike with the Pike 140. If it feels like its to tall after a few rides, then buy a 130mm air shaft $38.00, and change it out. This is what I did. Mine started as a Pike 150, now a 130.


----------



## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

Oh, You can change it to 130 for $38. That pretty much seals the deal!


----------



## drummercat (Jul 10, 2011)

I am 160lb fully geared, I need to install 2 volume tokens, and always ride in Trail mode with 1~2 clicks low speed from fully closed. the decend mode is almost unusable, always tends to throw me off bar.....



alshead said:


> I know this is probably somewhere in the 33 pages of advice here, so I apologize, but I just don't have the time today to scroll through it all...
> 
> I have a Pike 150 29er. What exactly will I _experience_ if I add (or remove) the bottomless tokens? I believe the fork comes with one installed. I am 170 fully kitted up and have the fork set around 75 psi and am cranking LSC almost all the way up as I feel a lot of brake dive when it's in descend mode, but I'm also not sure I'm getting full travel out of the fork (have still only had it on about 5 rides, not many with significant chunk).


----------



## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

drummercat said:


> I am 160lb fully geared, I need to install 2 volume tokens, and always ride in Trail mode with 1~2 clicks low speed from fully closed. the decend mode is almost unusable, always tends to throw me off bar.....


I think the LSC only affects the fork in descend mode. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

I know this isn't definitive, but from other forums/ threads, the consensus is that, yes, the LSC only works in Open mode. It does not affect the compression in locked out or pedal modes.



MTBMILES said:


> I think the LSC only affects the fork in descend mode. Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

LSC only works on Open mode. On trail mode there is a "sleeve" that comes down and seals shut the LSC bleed port and on climb mode the sleeve comes further down and preloads the shimstack.


----------



## Couloirman (Sep 17, 2010)

I just bought a new Turner Flux that is at 120mm right now but I want to slacken up its angles a bit with a longer fork (and shorter stem). I am going to throw a 140 on there and am deciding which one. Part of the beauty of the setup right now is that the bike weighs 24 pounds, so I dont want a monster fork on there but the Pike gets such good reviews.

Is the Pike a good choice for an AM bike that I want to keep the weight down on? I will be doing some XC racing in my future, but also taking this bike on the Colorado Trail Race this summer so the extra travel will be great. I know I will need to get a new air column to make the 27.5 fork a 140, but is this a good match for my setup? Or Pike overkill and I should look for lighter options in the 140 range?


----------



## drummercat (Jul 10, 2011)

oops I should read the manual first, I dont know the LS just work on Decend mode until now,.....but even I turned all LS on in decend mode, its still too plush, trail mode feel way much better for me in any situation, it will still eats all rocks and roots I throw at it. Actually I prefer independent HS and LS adjustment rather thab those CTD stuff for long travel forks.......Its more difficult to tune for me. Rockshox is better already because its still has LS dial, Fox stuff have nothing to adjust other than CTD....


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Interesting I'm running my 160mm 27.5 Pike in descend with the least LSC for most riding. I'm 180lbs naked and find trail to firm for anything, but fire road climbing.

In descend I get some descent plushness and even without any LSC the fork stays up high in its travel and resists bottoming on steep techy drops.

I haven't opened it up to see how many token were installed at the factory. I've got 2 tokens floating around my small parts bag. Not sure how many you'd normally get with the fork.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I think there are 4 tokens with the 160, IIRC. So probably 2 installed on yours, Vik.

I'm still piecing my bike together. I can't wait to get the Pike out there and dialed in.


----------



## lubes17319 (Dec 19, 2005)

stygz1 said:


> Also what pump does the fork come with?
> 
> High Pressure Fork/Shock Pump 300 psi | SRAM
> High Pressure Fork/Shock Pump 600 psi | SRAM


300psi


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I think there are 4 tokens with the 160, IIRC. So probably 2 installed on yours, Vik.
> 
> I'm still piecing my bike together. I can't wait to get the Pike out there and dialed in.


+1 - makes sense based on the RS documents. It feels pretty good....soft initially lots of ramp up. Works great for g-outs and braking to keep fork up high in its travel.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Yeah. I don't really have much to compare to. This is my first 'higher end' fork. When just messing around and putting load on it, it feels really stiff. I suspect this will be much much different when I'm out in a real world scenario.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Yeah. I don't really have much to compare to. This is my first 'higher end' fork. When just messing around and putting load on it, it feels really stiff. I suspect this will be much much different when I'm out in a real world scenario.


I found my Pike overly stiff in anything, but descend mode and even then I am running it wide open.

Given my weight and riding style that doesn't seem reasonable...but luckily it works well. I should be right in the middle of the adjustment range on a fork.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> I found my Pike overly stiff in anything, but descend mode and even then I am running it wide open.
> 
> Given my weight and riding style that doesn't seem reasonable...but luckily it works well. I should be right in the middle of the adjustment range on a fork.


Sounds like I am going to run into similar issues. Need to dial it in a bit and loosen things up before I get too excited.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Have you new(er) Pike buyers been checking the oil baths before installing and riding? Seems that some people say they come low from the factory and am curious if people are still having that issue as of late.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

At the end of the summer I am most likely sending my Float X to Avalanche for a custom tune. I'll consider getting my Pike upgraded at the same time depending how I feel after a few months worth of riding.

Getting my Nomad's shock Avy'd was the best money I spent on that bike.


----------



## Couloirman (Sep 17, 2010)

Really need to modify a 150mm 27.5" Pike to 140mm. I can't find the proper air column in stock anywhere and have heard from a few places it will be months before they are in stock again. Anyone know where I can find the parts I need to turn my 150mm Pike into 140mm travel?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Couloirman said:


> Really need to modify a 150mm 27.5" Pike to 140mm. I can't find the proper air column in stock anywhere and have heard from a few places it will be months before they are in stock again. Anyone know where I can find the parts I need to turn my 150mm Pike into 140mm travel?


Take the shaft to a machine shop and have them cut and tap the 150mm shaft.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

It's really only 10mm I'd just run 10mm more sag. The Pike can handle it just fine.


----------



## MTBOaxaca (Oct 20, 2009)

I have a 2014 RS pike 29er 140, Trail/Lock out mode not functioning, any ideas how to repair?


----------



## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

Couloirman I ordered the part from this german site and it arrived in Spain about a week later. Basic website in german. But I muddled through. http://www.mountainbikes.net/mtbike...z1haXIrc2hhZnQrcGlrZSZzZWFyY2g9MQ==&pnr=24667


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

MTBOaxaca said:


> I have a 2014 RS pike 29er 140, Trail/Lock out mode not functioning, any ideas how to repair?


This sounds like the damper is blown.


----------



## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

MTBOaxaca said:


> I have a 2014 RS pike 29er 140, Trail/Lock out mode not functioning, any ideas how to repair?


We have seen two issues that cause this, the simplest solution is the top lever/knob need to be re-tighten and is just slipping and the more difficult problem is the compression valve is spinning and needs to be re-tightened. This is the interface between the black Charger labeled nut and the cartridge tube. This torque on the valve prevents it from spinning when the preload is added to the pedal/lockout knob.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Rick Draper said:


> Take the shaft to a machine shop and have them cut and tap the 150mm shaft.


Why do you need to run less travel?

If it's a head angle issue try an Anglesey headset.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

spunkmtb said:


> Why do you need to run less travel?
> 
> If it's a head angle issue try an Anglesey headset.


I don't need to reduce it. The other chap does!


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm sure it been discussed in here somewhere, but any sag recommendations? I'm pretty lightweight... maybe 170 geared up...

Also, is it me or is the RS Shock Pump completely inaccurate when measuring PSI?


----------



## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I'm sure it been discussed in here somewhere, but any sag recommendations? I'm pretty lightweight... maybe 170 geared up...
> 
> Also, is it me or is the RS Shock Pump completely inaccurate when measuring PSI?


Yes I am in the same boat. I will be needing HS and LS rebound settings. I wont have the fork until next week...cant wait!


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Setup my sag at about 20% right now. Seems to feel good but don't know if that's close to the standard recommended setting.


----------



## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

Couloirman said:


> Really need to modify a 150mm 27.5" Pike to 140mm. I can't find the proper air column in stock anywhere and have heard from a few places it will be months before they are in stock again. Anyone know where I can find the parts I need to turn my 150mm Pike into 140mm travel?


it's going to be hard for bike shops to buy these from the distributors like BTI, etc...
Do you have a good bike shop you use?
if they are a SRAM dealer have them buy it direct.
it's what I did. They shipped it immediately when everywhere else has been "sold out for weeks"

running more sag to compensate for ride height is a really bad idea for numerous reasons


----------



## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

vikb said:


> At the end of the summer I am most likely sending my Float X to Avalanche for a custom tune. I'll consider getting my Pike upgraded at the same time depending how I feel after a few months worth of riding.
> 
> Getting my Nomad's shock Avy'd was the best money I spent on that bike.


This will be my plan as well! Nice to see an Avy option for the Pike29!


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Well this sucks...
Just diagnosed a click coming from the air side stanchion/crown interface. Bike upside down w/ wheel out...got the click when I push the leg fwd. Suck! Hope they just send me a new set of stanchies...got my lowers all taped up w/ heli-tape :madman:


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

So I am finally getting around to attempting to set this thing up a bit more carefully than I originally did. I'm about 170lbs all geared up so I aired it up to 75psi as the lower leg sticker stated. I couldn't get the thing to sag much at all. Lowered the psi some... not a clue how low... so I could achieve about 18% sag without any gear on. I feel like I let quite a bit of pressure out of the air chamber and went way below the recommended specs. Is this pretty normal? 

Also noticed that it's a little sticky when just pushing down on the fork in the garage. Haven't been out on the trail with it yet but should this weekend. Should I consider taking the lower legs off and checking the oil levels or just go out and ride the damn thing to see what it does?

Any insight is helpful. Thanks all!


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> Interesting I'm running my 160mm 27.5 Pike in descend with the least LSC for most riding. I'm 180lbs naked and find trail to firm for anything, but fire road climbing.
> 
> In descend I get some descent plushness and even without any LSC the fork stays up high in its travel and resists bottoming on steep techy drops.
> 
> I haven't opened it up to see how many token were installed at the factory. I've got 2 tokens floating around my small parts bag. Not sure how many you'd normally get with the fork.


Wanted to follow up this for all those out there that are cruising this thread to learn. I opened up my 29er 140mm fork and it had 2 tokens already installed.


----------



## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

Gouda Cheez said:


> So I am finally getting around to attempting to set this thing up a bit more carefully than I originally did. I'm about 170lbs all geared up so I aired it up to 75psi as the lower leg sticker stated. I couldn't get the thing to sag much at all. Lowered the psi some... not a clue how low... so I could achieve about 18% sag without any gear on. I feel like I let quite a bit of pressure out of the air chamber and went way below the recommended specs. Is this pretty normal?
> 
> Also noticed that it's a little sticky when just pushing down on the fork in the garage. Haven't been out on the trail with it yet but should this weekend. Should I consider taking the lower legs off and checking the oil levels or just go out and ride the damn thing to see what it does?
> 
> Any insight is helpful. Thanks all!


RS recommended air pressure stickers have always been off. Don't go by their recommendation. I'm curious as to why you're not sure how much air you're currently running, is it because you're lower than 50psi and the gauge doesn't recognize it?

Also, not to state the obvious, have you checked to make sure your compression dial is set to off?


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Wanted to follow up this for all those out there that are cruising this thread to learn. I opened up my 29er 140mm fork and it had 2 tokens already installed.


Which is how the 29'r 140 is SUPPOSED to come. It's a different fork than the 650b 160 which comes with ZERO installed (and for good reason I might add). There's a lot of misconception going on in this thread which I even fell victim to when I first got mine. My point is you CANNOT take the tuning recommendations from a 140mm 29'r Pike and compare them to what you're using on a 650b 160mm version!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

k1creeker said:


> RS recommended air pressure stickers have always been off. Don't go by their recommendation. I'm curious as to why you're not sure how much air you're currently running, is it because you're lower than 50psi and the gauge doesn't recognize it?
> 
> Also, not to state the obvious, have you checked to make sure your compression dial is set to off?


Good to know their recs are a bit off. That is what I was getting hung up on. Sounds like I should focus more on setting the sag and not so much on PSI #s.

Reason I said I didn't know how low I was going was because I never even checked the pressure... just went by sag %. No big deal there.

And yes, have checked the compression dial. Thank you all for the feedback.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Gman086 said:


> Which is how the 29'r 140 is SUPPOSED to come. It's a different fork than the 650b 160 which comes with ZERO installed (and for good reason I might add). There's a lot of misconception going on in this thread which I even fell victim to when I first got mine. My point is you CANNOT take the tuning recommendations from a 140mm 29'r Pike and compare them to what you're using on a 650b 160mm version!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


Yeah, I am not so sure I understood the real reason to use the tokens but it's slowly making sense. I need to go back tonight and rethink what I did last night. All in good fun!


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Well both of my Pikes have had the Dampers warrantied. My 29er damper the clocking was off on the knob. All three modes worked fine but when I finally took it to the shop RS just sent a new damper. For my 650B I realized that I only had 13 clicks of LSC. My 29er has 15. I asked RS about it and they said they would send a new damper to my shop. SO there you go.

My 650B fork has been amazing. Currently running 20% sag, 1 token, 11rebound & 10 LSC. Couldn't be happier with it. I may still get some more use put of it before I warranty it and get a free service out of it.


----------



## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

spunkmtb said:


> Well both of my Pikes have had the Dampers warrantied. My 29er damper the clocking was off on the knob. All three modes worked fine but when I finally took it to the shop RS just sent a new damper. For my 650B I realized that I only had 13 clicks of LSC. My 29er has 15. I asked RS about it and they said they would send a new damper to my shop. SO there you go.


Pretty funny - I think the 650B is supposed to have 13 clicks of LSC . . . .


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

expatrider said:


> Pretty funny - I think the 650B is supposed to have 13 clicks of LSC . . . .


I would think it would be the same for all wheel sizes. Either way I get a new damper and service out of it.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

My 29er only has 13 clicks of LSC, I believe. 20 clicks for rebound. Is it borked?


----------



## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

Hey all.. just wanting to make sure i have this correct

I have a 140 29er pike and i want to install the 130 shaft... Ive read around and it seems like its a pretty easy process.. But want to make sure im not missing anything..

1. remove the air and remove the schrader valve
2. remove rebound knob
3. loosen allen bolts at bottom and use a rubber mallet to push the shafts away from the end..
4. drain fluid
5. pull lowers off.
6. pull 140 air shaft down-- then remove clip at the bottom and pull the shaft out
7. take those pieces off the old shaft and slide them onto the new shaft in the same order
8. throw come grease around the rubber ring on the head of the new shaft
9 slide the new shaft back in--insert lower rubber part and rings-- push in base-- install the clip back in-- push the shaft back in.. 
10. put lowers on-- fill with 15ml on drive side and 5 ml on air side
11. push lowers all the way on.. 
12. bolt everything back up
13 install rebound knob
14 go ride..

does this sound about right? I dont need to remove the top cap on the air side do I?


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Gouda Cheez said:


> My 29er only has 13 clicks of LSC, I believe. 20 clicks for rebound. Is it borked?


if it's working fine, it's fine. just be aware that you can get a new damper cartridge and a fork service through your shop all under warranty.


----------



## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

SB Trails said:


> does this sound about right? I dont need to remove the top cap on the air side do I?


No need to remove the schrader valve or top cap. Might want to also have some spare crush washers on hand if the current ones are not in good condition.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

spunkmtb said:


> if it's working fine, it's fine. just be aware that you can get a new damper cartridge and a fork service through your shop all under warranty.


Thanks!


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> Well this sucks...
> Just diagnosed a click coming from the air side stanchion/crown interface. Bike upside down w/ wheel out...got the click when I push the leg fwd. Suck! Hope they just send me a new set of stanchies...got my lowers all taped up w/ heli-tape :madman:


Oh yeah! New fork comin' 

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk


----------



## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

ncfisherman-- thanks for the confirm... 

Ill be sure to get a few crush washers to have on hand... Any advice on getting the lock ring off?


----------



## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

SB Trails said:


> ncfisherman-- thanks for the confirm...
> 
> Ill be sure to get a few crush washers to have on hand... Any advice on getting the lock ring off?


Snap ring? Need a pair of internal snap ring pliers. They're easily removable.

Crush washers are included with the seal kits. You can probably source them separately, but might as well have a set of seals on hand for future use. It's fairly likely that you won't need the crush washers(I usually get away with reusing them), still nice to have on hand.

RS service is pretty straightforward, but post up if you have any specific questions once you get started.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Crush Washers:
Bikeman RockShox 8mm Crush Washers: Bag of 50 Washers


----------



## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

I have a pair of snap ring pliers... It was more getting the ring to want to come out.. I actually ended up used a very small flat head screw driver-- then when i pinched the lock ring i used the flat head to entice the ring to come out a bit and it came right off np.. My local shop has a few extra crush rings so ill pick some of those up just in case.. 

Bikeman is where i was able to find my new shaft-- they do seem to have all kinds of goodies ...


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

SB Trails said:


> I have a pair of snap ring pliers... It was more getting the ring to want to come out.. I actually ended up used a very small flat head screw driver-- then when i pinched the lock ring i used the flat head to entice the ring to come out a bit and it came right off np.. My local shop has a few extra crush rings so ill pick some of those up just in case..
> 
> Bikeman is where i was able to find my new shaft-- they do seem to have all kinds of goodies ...


I also ended up using a pick to get that snap ring out...

Sent from my MyTouch 4G Slide using Tapatalk


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Has anyone been able to get those short air shafts?
I was told 2months ago they would be available shortly. But as of today no luck...
I am looking for 130mm 650b shaft.
Well, if it is not available any time soon I still can cut down the one I have - 150mm.


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

I waited a long time for the air shaft to show up on websites, but after 2 months of waiting I called a lbs and they were able to order direct through Sram.

I would go that route if you haven't already checked.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

So the new damper I received **** out on me. The 3 position clicker has only one position. Open. It isn't too bad. If I crank the LSC up on the climbs it works well. Another warranty replacement is on the way. One thing that was instantly noticeable. After my fork was serviced it was incredibly smooth & plush. I equate that to it just wing serviced by my local shop and having everything greased & lubed up. Can't wait to bring my 650B fork in for a new cartridge and the included service.


----------



## oilnewby (Jan 13, 2011)

My 160 Pike is being serviced today so I am anxious to see if there is a difference in ride quality


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

mikodipo said:


> I waited a long time for the air shaft to show up on websites, but after 2 months of waiting I called a lbs and they were able to order direct through Sram.
> 
> I would go that route if you haven't already checked.


Which air shaft did you order?


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

150 26". It was out of stock for distributors for a while and although the one that you want is a different size, it would be worth checking. Prices should be the same online as well


----------



## dragunov (Jun 18, 2008)

Hello guys, 

Found this thread trying to understand if my Pike has a problem or not.Can you please let me know what is the fork behavior when the charger knob is turned to lock position? Is the fork suppose to lock? The behavior i had out of the box with this setting was that the fork was compressing like 5-10% of the travel and then it was locking. After a while this behavior changed and now the fork is not locking at all. The LBS/SRAM dealer did check this and but still in the lock mode the fork is not locking. Any thoughts? 

Moreover if i compress the fork and let it decompress it seems that with no weight at all at the bike the sag is at around 5%. Only when i lift the bike it goes to 0%. Is this normal?

ps: Thank you in advance and forgive my english..cheers


----------



## dragunov (Jun 18, 2008)

Anybody? Thanks..


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

Dragunov, I just got mine a few days ago and I have something similar in feel. If I lock the fork, I still get a small amount of sag as you mentioned between 5 and 10% which gives a similar feel to pedal position with LSC dialed to max. If I give a strong push, the fork will release travel, but I think this comes from a blow off valve as a protection.

Regarding unweighted sag on the fork, with mine if I push it a few times, sometimes it will not extend to full only if I lift the the front of the bike. Maybe attached pictures will explain better

P. S. Mine is a dual position if it matters in any way.

Full : 









Slightly sagged : 









Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

*Important note on air shaft / travel change*

Hey, just a heads up, if you're swapping air shaft I would recommend replacing all the air-spring side o-rings and seals while you're at it, even if the ones in the fork appear to be in good condition. especially the smaller seal that goes around the air shaft at the lower seal. I would use slick honey liberally on everything. All these spare parts are included with the fork.

I had changed my air shaft, followed the directions carefully, everything went smoothly.. but I immediately had issues with air leaking into the lowers (which causes the fork to feel firm/locked out, until the dust wipers and seals pop out of the lowers). Pulling it apart again today.


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

I've been running a set of 160mm Solo Air 26's for several months now, and I just sent 'em back to Sram to have 'em looked at.
Where I ride(SoCal) our winter was so dry, the few rainy and many windy days we had conspired to remove what little dirt was left on our trails, so now we're left with more exposed rock than dirt/sand/silt, and my Pike's just can't keep up with the machine-gun rock hits. I'm loosing 5-10mph on my favorite descents, and I'm getting arm-pump like I'm riding a 2-stroke at Glen Helen.
I'm damn tempted to not even pull 'em outta the box when they get back, and throw 'em in the classifieds in favor of a set of Fox Van's.
I'm also liking what I've read about the 2015 36/180 Floats, so that might be an option if I decide that I'm not actually done with air-sprung forks(and shocks) yet(even though they're the devil). I had the 2013 version on my last bike(Trek Slash), and while the Enduro will run circles around that thing climbing, the Slash was the smoothest, most composed bike I've ever ridden on fast descents-outside of a dedicated 200mm+ downhill bike.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

YoKev said:


> I've been running a set of 160mm Solo Air 26's for several months now, and I just sent 'em back to Sram to have 'em looked at.
> Where I ride(SoCal) our winter was so dry, the few rainy and many windy days we had conspired to remove what little dirt was left on our trails, so now we're left with more exposed rock than dirt/sand/silt, and my Pike's just can't keep up with the machine-gun rock hits. I'm loosing 5-10mph on my favorite descents, and I'm getting arm-pump like I'm riding a 2-stroke at Glen Helen.
> I'm damn tempted to not even pull 'em outta the box when they get back, and throw 'em in the classifieds in favor of a set of Fox Van's.
> I'm also liking what I've read about the 2015 36/180 Floats, so that might be an option if I decide that I'm not actually done with air-sprung forks(and shocks) yet(even though they're the devil). I had the 2013 version on my last bike(Trek Slash), and while the Enduro will run circles around that thing climbing, the Slash was the smoothest, most composed bike I've ever ridden on fast descents-outside of a dedicated 200mm+ downhill bike.


I ride in and around the LA area and am based in Santa Monica. I purchased two 2014 a 160 650B and a 150 29er. I have most of my miles on the 650B fork. When I finally got my 29er built up I got one ride in on the fork and I needed to get the charger damper replaced due to the knob 3 compression mode knob not turning correctly. When I got my fork back after being rebuilt from my shop (It was generously lubricated) it was a night and day difference on feel and performance. I can't wait for the opportunity to rebuild my 650B fork. I have read in this thread that the forks are pretty dry from the factory. So perhaps that could be your problem????

Also another problem I was running into early on and I had to call Sram about this was I just couldn't get the fork set-up right for my descents here locally. I talked with the guy for a while. What we discovered was that I was trying to tune the fork like it was a Fox fork(All I have ever ridden except for the mag 21's & Judy's). I had to run less sag, more LSC, and up my rebound.

My local trails here are a disaster these days. So sharp, rutted, brake bump riddled, and dusty. I hope that we get some rain this winter. Don't know if any of this helped. But good luck


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Has anyone gone with the Avalanche tune? Thoughts?


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

jazzanova said:


> Has anyone go with the Avalanche tune? Thoughts?


Yup, it's a whole new fork. Worth the 3-4 week wait. I highly recommend calling Craig, he might chat your ear off but tons of great info and he'll get your fork setup right.

Cheers,

"I like the cut of his jib."


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

jjkitt said:


> Yup, it's a whole new fork. Worth the 3-4 week wait. I highly recommend calling Craig, he might chat your ear off but tons of great info and he'll get your fork setup right.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> "I like the cut of his jib."


Have you ridden the fork in its original form?
What are the main differences?


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

I have had the Pike for about 5 months before I sent to Craig. Craig set's up the shim stack for your weight and riding style. I no longer need the bottomless -tokens. Craig installed a shim stack that is speed sensitive, the fork is very, very soft/plush but on large hits firms up nicely on the end stroke. The LSC actually works now and you can dial it in and it makes a difference without getting harsh spikes. The 3 compression settings are converted to more usable HSC settings that are ride-able in all different terrain...i.e. smooth/groomed trail, roots/rocks, and jumps/drops. 

I just got done riding it in San Diego/SoCal; Ted Williams, Cowles Mountain, Coral Canyon etc....rock gardens, jumps and drops. The fork is just softer, mid valve works nicely now without spiking, can use all three compression setting, and no longer need the tokens.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

jjkitt said:


> I have had the Pike for about 5 months before I sent to Craig. Craig set's up the shim stack for your weight and riding style. I no longer need the bottomless -tokens. Craig installed a shim stack that is speed sensitive, the fork is very, very soft/plush but on large hits firms up nicely on the end stroke. The LSC actually works now and you can dial it in and it makes a difference without getting harsh spikes. The 3 compression settings are converted to more usable HSC settings that are ride-able in all different terrain...i.e. smooth/groomed trail, roots/rocks, and jumps/drops.
> 
> I just got done riding it in San Diego/SoCal; Ted Williams, Cowles Mountain, Coral Canyon etc....rock gardens, jumps and drops. The fork is just softer, mid valve works nicely now without spiking, can use all three compression setting, and no longer need the tokens.
> 
> ...


Thank you!
How is it with future service?
Would you or your LBS be able to do the service?
Does it need to be done by avalanche?


----------



## jjkitt (Sep 23, 2011)

jazzanova said:


> Thank you!
> How is it with future service?
> Would you or your LBS be able to do the service?
> Does it need to be done by avalanche?


No problem. I got the "Charger" upgrade. You or your lbs can service with ease. No change to the fork except what's inside the damper. Craig installs new shims and pistons. I'm sure he uses specific weight oil in the damper, but that's an easy call or email to him to find out.

I plan to continue to do the RS recommended servicing of the lowers and when it's time to bleed an recharge the damper I'll double check with Craig.

Cheers,

"I like the cut of his jib."


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

spunkmtb said:


> I ride in and around the LA area and am based in Santa Monica. I purchased two 2014 a 160 650B and a 150 29er. I have most of my miles on the 650B fork. When I finally got my 29er built up I got one ride in on the fork and I needed to get the charger damper replaced due to the knob 3 compression mode knob not turning correctly. When I got my fork back after being rebuilt from my shop (It was generously lubricated) it was a night and day difference on feel and performance. I can't wait for the opportunity to rebuild my 650B fork. I have read in this thread that the forks are pretty dry from the factory. So perhaps that could be your problem????
> 
> Also another problem I was running into early on and I had to call Sram about this was I just couldn't get the fork set-up right for my descents here locally. I talked with the guy for a while. What we discovered was that I was trying to tune the fork like it was a Fox fork(All I have ever ridden except for the mag 21's & Judy's). I had to run less sag, more LSC, and up my rebound.
> 
> My local trails here are a disaster these days. So sharp, rutted, brake bump riddled, and dusty. I hope that we get some rain this winter. Don't know if any of this helped. But good luck


I'm in OC, but our trails are the same.
I actually like 'em rough provided my suspension can handle it.
I appreciate your feedback, as it gave me some info I wasn't aware of.
I too have ridden Fox previously, and adjusted the Pike as if it were the same.
What was really weird about the Pike is that while I'm 240lbs, I'd have to run MUCH lower pressure than SRAM calls for to get the proper sag.
When I would run it lower as you mentioned, it would work better over jumps/bigger hits, but unfortunately worked worse over the bumps. I agree that it's somewhere in the rebound, but I'd get the same result going in either direction.
My Fox 36's were dry from the factory like you mentioned the Pike's are, but I didn't get the impression my particular Pikes were because they didn't start off with much stiction.
Based on what you wrote about 'em being night and day different when you got 'em back, I'll mount 'em up and give them a shot.
Otherwise I was just gonna leave 'em in the box and go back to coils.
Again...thanks for the input
Kevin


----------



## chick0 (Apr 4, 2009)

Has anyone had the chance to try a Solo and Duel Pike back to back? Just wondering if the performance is different.


----------



## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I'm getting my new bike next week which comes with a Pike SA.
I read a few times that some Pikes are quiet low on Oil and people opened the fork immediately after getting it to check the levels. 
Do I absolutely have to do that or should I just ride and see if it feels "funny"?


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I didn't open mine up. I thought about it and figured 'what the hell' I will ride it and see what happens. So far there's been no issues as far as I can tell. I'm a pretty novice rider and I think the Pike feels amazing. I'll probably change the oil out in the next couple months.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

cYbernation said:


> I'm getting my new bike next week which comes with a Pike SA.
> I read a few times that some Pikes are quiet low on Oil and people opened the fork immediately after getting it to check the levels.
> Do I absolutely have to do that or should I just ride and see if it feels "funny"?


There's only 5ml of splash oil in the damper side which gets sucked up by the foam ring under the lip seal. It does it's job. Everyone is opening them up expecting to see 5ml come flowing back out. When they don't see that they think RS sent them out dry - NOT! Just ride man!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

I have a 2014 SA Pike 150 29er and am absolutely loving it. Unlike others, I loved my Fox 34/140 just fine, but it's now on another bike. The Pike gives me 10mm more of travel, but is more fluid and plush than the Fox ever was/ is. Basically running at stock psi with LSC way up. I don't show the sag I would shoot for, but it's buttery smooth.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

YoKev said:


> I'm in OC, but our trails are the same.
> I actually like 'em rough provided my suspension can handle it.
> I appreciate your feedback, as it gave me some info I wasn't aware of.
> I too have ridden Fox previously, and adjusted the Pike as if it were the same.
> ...


Never fought my random ramblings could help. Thanks. By the way I used to be 250. The pounds are still coming off.


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

Based off the posts on here recommending Craig/Avalanche, I sent him an email over the weekend.
I got this response today:
"_You have identified one of the issues that plagues the air spring side. The negative spring side has trouble equalizing the air chambers at higher pressure due to the small dimple size and the grease packed into it makes the air flow exchange a slow process and tends to over pressure the negative side and make the fork feel like you said. No real permanent fix but cleaning the dimple and often manual equalizing will help. As for the damper side we have fixed all the issues with the damping characteristics with our replacement damper or the upgrades we do to the stock charger damper_"
Sounds like he knows these things really well, but I wouldn't be surprised if with my own particular situation, at 240lbs(and unfortunately, give or take 10-15lbs in either direction, that's my normal weight) I'm simply asking them to work under more weight than they were designed to.
I'm gonna give him a call tomorrow and see what he says.


----------



## mik8yu (Jul 25, 2012)

YoKev said:


> Based off the posts on here recommending Craig/Avalanche, I sent him an email over the weekend.
> I got this response today:
> "_You have identified one of the issues that plagues the air spring side. The negative spring side has trouble equalizing the air chambers at higher pressure due to the small dimple size and the grease packed into it makes the air flow exchange a slow process and tends to over pressure the negative side and make the fork feel like you said. No real permanent fix but cleaning the dimple and often manual equalizing will help. As for the damper side we have fixed all the issues with the damping characteristics with our replacement damper or the upgrades we do to the stock charger damper_"
> Sounds like he knows these things really well, but I wouldn't be surprised if with my own particular situation, at 240lbs(and unfortunately, give or take 10-15lbs in either direction, that's my normal weight) I'm simply asking them to work under more weight than they were designed to.
> I'm gonna give him a call tomorrow and see what he says.


This could be an interesting upgrade... Wonder how easy it is to install the damper unit by myself rather than sending the fork in. And this will remove the DP from fork right?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

mik8yu said:


> This could be an interesting upgrade... Wonder how easy it is to install the damper unit by myself rather than sending the fork in. And this will remove the DP from fork right?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


DP as in 'Dual Position'.
I read their FAQ section, and it does not. Your DP Air is located in the air side of your forks(the left fork leg), and Avalanche replaces the damping unit located in the other(right) fork leg


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

Okay, I just got off the phone with Craig @ Avalanche, and like what others have said about him, I came away thoroughly impressed with his knowledge of mountain bike suspension, the technology in use, and how to fix it/make it better.
More-so than this however, Craig was able to explain/describe IN DETAIL how and why the stock Pike has the problems I'm experiencing, how the Avalanche damping unit works, and best of all he was able to explain it in a way somebody like me, who has little to no working knowledge of how mtb air suspension works CLEARLY understood it.
Now I will send Avalanche my Pike forks knowing EXACTLY what they're gonna do, and HOW their replacement cartridge is going to improve how my forks work.
I feel like a complete MOron for even bringing up motorcycle oil-bath 'technology' in my previous post, as even mentioning the two in the same post is like comparing the forks off a 1988 Kawasaki EX500 with a set of Ohlins gas-charged Superbike forks, -or- comparing a 1953 Briggs and Stratton 3hp side-valve with a modern jet aircraft engine.
If I had waited 'til I spoke with Craig, or even just looked at the diagram they have of their cartridge on their site, I wouldn't have made that mistake, and I apologize to anyone that I gave the wrong impression to.
To minimize the confusion, I'm gonna see if I can edit my previous post, as it's simply gonna confuse anyone not familiar with the Avalanche damper, and possibly cause Avalanche some un-warranted grief.
I urge anyone wanting more info on the Avalanche cartridge to either call Craig yourself, or simply go to their site and read the info about the cartridge, and/or look at the diagram they have of the damping unit.


----------



## arashi (Jan 15, 2009)

I just picked up a 29er Pike 140mm RCT3 Solo Air and the stanchions don't have the markings to measure sag. Did I get a Friday night special or are those markings only on the dual position forks?


----------



## ridonkulus (Sep 5, 2011)

Marks aren't on the 29 140mm forks


----------



## arashi (Jan 15, 2009)

That's ridonkulus! Sorry couldn't resist lol 

Thanks man!


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I posted this on another thread but thought it would get more attention here. I want to convert a solo air Pike 29 160mm (from 2014 Enduro) to a dual air. 
I have part # 11.4018.010.117 for the dual air spring 29-160 mm travel.
and 11.4018.008.320/322 for the CSU. 
From what I've read and see on the manual that is what I need to convert it, can any Pike/Rockshox experts confirm that ? 

(Justification - this option is almost $600 in parts, most would say sell the fork and buy somethign else but this a new bike and I don't have the patience as this time of year I am riding all the time. Also the dual air Pike 29 is only available in white and I'm not eager to try and paint it, and it is only available in 150mm as well (maybe buying the 160 spring can up the travel but now you are adding $200 to the price and option 1 makes more sense).

One guy told me a 160 Pike dual air in black would be available in July but I can't wait that long. The other option is to sell and buy the new Fox 36 29 160, but they are not out yet either and I have heard different dates from mid-May (now) to late June. 

So you can see why I'm contemplating this less than economically palatable choice, I'm just trying to confirm if it will work.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm curious if any of the Avalanche upgrades to the Dual Air would make the 130mm setting on 160mm forks able to be ran 100% of the time?


----------



## sg1979 (May 21, 2014)

Hi
Can anybody post the total weight of a pike with an avalanche cartridge ?

On the homepage they say about 300g but I don't know, if this is the total weight (oil included) or only the cartridge

Thanks


----------



## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

I don't have the exact info but reading between the lines in the FAQ at the bottom of the Avalanche PIke page it seems the cartridge will add about 110g total to the weight of the fork. Or you can opt to have them upgrade your pike cartridge instead with almost as good of results. 

The Rock Shox tech line confirmed that the two part numbers I listed above should be sufficient to turn a solo into a dual, we will see when my LBS puts it together next week.


----------



## Preston (Sep 22, 2005)

>I'm curious if any of the Avalanche upgrades to the Dual Air would make the 130mm setting on 160mm forks able to be ran 100% of the time? 

Not sure why you couldn't run it at 130 100% of the time anyway, that's how I've always ran my Talas (ie only raise it for DH). But their page says they can setup the damping to be optimum at either point or halfway in between.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

sg1979 said:


> Hi
> Can anybody post the total weight of a pike with an avalanche cartridge ?
> 
> On the homepage they say about 300g but I don't know, if this is the total weight (oil included) or only the cartridge
> ...


And I thought I was a bad weight weenie


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Preston, 

There is some debate about whether the forks can be ran in the lowered position all the time.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

>There is some debate about whether the forks can be ran in the lowered position all the time. 

Why would this be a problem, and what would be the effects ? Apologies for not re-reading all 36 pages of this thread if its been discussed. For the record I've always ran my Talas at the lower position 90% of the time. I will try to skim and see if I find it.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

The 140/130mm 26"/27.5" air shaft is available.
P/N 11.4018.026.010


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

jazzanova said:


> The 140/130mm 26"/27.5" air shaft is available.
> P/N 11.4018.026.010


I assume this for Solo Air?

We have to be specific when we're talking about lowering parts. Dual Air and Solo Air are totally different ballgames in that respect.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

PHeller said:


> I assume this for Solo Air?
> 
> We have to be specific when we're talking about lowering parts. Dual Air and Solo Air are totally different ballgames in that respect.


Yes. Solo air.
I am sorry, I did not notice the discussion prior to my post.

I am going to swap the 150mm for this 130mm in my solo Pike and use it on a 5" bike for now.
When I decide on a future 6"+ bike I will replace the shaft with a longer one.

I considered a dual air,which would be perfect in this situation, but wasn't sure how it would behave in the 130mm mod all the time... 
I was also disappointed with the dual position forks in the past.

There is one benefit the dual air pike has comparing to a Solo air, it doesn't suffer from the air equalizing.


----------



## Rocks (May 26, 2014)

Charge damper needs bleeding??

With removed air vent (=no air pressure at all), I try to push down fhe forks down to full travel, but it requires quiet a lot of my weight to suceed! It feels like it's ramping up even without air pressure! Is this a sign of the charge damper being to full with oil and needs bleeding? 

The pike has only been on one ride.

(I have browsed through quiet a few of the pages and I did see some guy having similar problem but I did not find any conclusion)


----------



## j-fox (Feb 6, 2014)

Rocks said:


> Charge damper needs bleeding??
> 
> With removed air vent (=no air pressure at all), I try to push down fhe forks down to full travel, but it requires quiet a lot of my weight to suceed! It feels like it's ramping up even without air pressure! Is this a sign of the charge damper being to full with oil and needs bleeding?
> 
> ...


The charger damper has nothing to do with it whatsoever. You have a positive air gap between the non-drive side dust wiper and bottom bolt that's causing a secondary preload. It's an assembly error that Rockshox hasn't addressed yet.

Remove the schrader valve, turn compression damping off, and push the fork down until it bottoms out. You'll likely pop the non-driveside dust wiper out, then you can clean with alcohol around the dust wiper seat on the lowers and the ridges on the dust wiper itself that contact the side of the lowers when it's reinserted. Take some 5wt oil and lube up the foam ring under the dust wiper until it looks saturated - You shouldn't have to remove it, just drip some oil on there while it's seated in the lowers.

Reinsert the dust wiper after you've cleaned with alcohol and use a plastic tire lever to carefully insert it until it's flush. Use the drive-side dust wiper as a reference for depth if necessary. Now you can reinstall the schrader valve and re-inflate the fork up to recommended spec for your weight.


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Rocks said:


> Is this a sign of the charge damper being to full with oil and needs bleeding?


The charger damper is supposed to be completely full of oil, that's the point of it. If there was air in the damper, it wouldn't function properly.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

It could possibly be overfilled with oil. I have seen Fox FIT cartridges like that, in fact I had one myself from the factory. It was a 130mm fork and it only had 90mm travel as the bladder was expanding and touching the inside of the stanchion.


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Folks,

I have a creak/pop coming from my front end occasionally. Initially thought it was the headset, but I've ruled that out as I snugged the adjustment bolt more than needed, and the noise was still present. The noise comes and goes, it's not consistent at all. At one point I thought I narrowed it down to the fork, as it seemed like if you put any weight on the fork and sagged it just a bit, then lifted up the front end, you would hear the pop. And it was doing something similar last night when the bike was sitting in the storage rack.

I was thinking maybe it was a sound stemming from a fast top out or something? I've tried trouble shooting this a few times, and am at a loss at this point.

Anyone else experiencing anything similar to this?


----------



## captainofass (Apr 25, 2014)

Im having the same issue did u ever resolve this issue?


11highlights said:


> Anyone have trouble with their forks?
> 
> When i originally set my sag at 25% it required about 70psi. Now it is sitting at 30% sag with the same pressure. With 0 psi it rests at about 50% sag and i cant get it to fully extend unless i pump it up to 150psi. even with no weight on the fork (in stand) it sits at 50% sag at 0 psi.
> 
> ...


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

rscecil007 said:


> Folks,
> 
> I have a creak/pop coming from my front end occasionally. Initially thought it was the headset, but I've ruled that out as I snugged the adjustment bolt more than needed, and the noise was still present. The noise comes and goes, it's not consistent at all. At one point I thought I narrowed it down to the fork, as it seemed like if you put any weight on the fork and sagged it just a bit, then lifted up the front end, you would hear the pop. And it was doing something similar last night when the bike was sitting in the storage rack.
> 
> ...


I've had the same noise on a myriad of forks.
Most of the time it was just not enough rebound damping to prevent the forks from slamming home(like it sounds like you're alluding to).
I'd add 5 or so clicks of rebound to check this first
A creaking noise usually is caused by a different animal.
I know that some of the early-production Pike's creaked a lot, and SRAM took care of them if the customer(s) brought it to their attention


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

rscecil007 said:


> Folks,
> 
> I have a creak/pop coming from my front end occasionally. Initially thought it was the headset, but I've ruled that out as I snugged the adjustment bolt more than needed, and the noise was still present. The noise comes and goes, it's not consistent at all. At one point I thought I narrowed it down to the fork, as it seemed like if you put any weight on the fork and sagged it just a bit, then lifted up the front end, you would hear the pop. And it was doing something similar last night when the bike was sitting in the storage rack.
> 
> ...


I've had one CSU develop the noise...warrantied.
Flip bike upside down and remove frt wheel. Flex each leg in all directions to mimic actual riding forces and see if it makes noises you're hearing.


----------



## regularbob (Aug 6, 2013)

Interesting... Pike Dirt Jump Fork for 26ers in 100mm or 140mm travel

RockShox Announces Pike Dirt Jump Fork - Pinkbike


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I wish SRAM would cut to the chase and clear up exactly what parts are necessary to drop the dual air models to a 100/130 setup from the stock 160/130. Maybe they figure bikes in the 130 range don't need travel adjust.


----------



## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

Anyone have a source for the Charger bleed fitting? I've been looking around and no one's got them in stock. Kinda hard to do the maintenance as prescribed when you can't get the tools needed for the job....


----------



## Rocks (May 26, 2014)

Rocks said:


> Charge damper needs bleeding??
> 
> With removed air vent (=no air pressure at all), I try to push down fhe forks down to full travel, but it requires quiet a lot of my weight to suceed! It feels like it's ramping up even without air pressure! Is this a sign of the charge damper being to full with oil and needs bleeding?
> ........


Cheers for the inputs! 

I got some suggestion on possible errors and I just want to know how your pike behaves before possibly returning mine for warranty (or service?):

- If you remove the shrader valve on your pike (no air pressure at all), how much force do you need to make it bottom out?

I'm around 140 lbs, 65 kg and (as earlier described) I'm using most of my weight to make it bottom out (without air pressure!!), which just feels like something is wrong...


----------



## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

Has anyone come up with a solution for the top-out knock that many forks have? I've been living with it for the last few months, and it's finally starting to annoy me. Mine is the Solo air 29 160mm rct3. I bought it as a 150mm fork and made the conversion to 160mm myself. The klunk or knock was not noticeable for the first one hundred miles or so.. I've got around 500 miles on it now.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> I've had one CSU develop the noise...warrantied.
> Flip bike upside down and remove frt wheel. Flex each leg in all directions to mimic actual riding forces and see if it makes noises you're hearing.


You don't have to flip over, simply hold the front wheel between your legs while twisting the bars and you'll instantly be able to tell if the fork stanchions are creaking at the crown interface. If that's not the source (and you've ruled out headset) then it's most probably coming from one of the shifter cables (usually from a crash where the bars are spun 180 deg and stretching out the cable sheath from the casing wires).

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

First off thanks for all the tips. So to follow up on my creak, worked on it a bit yesterday. Turns out yesterday I could get it to creak by pushing down on the fork, this was a first. Another first was I could actually replicate it when I pulled it out of the rack. Balanced on the back wheel vertically between my feet, and grabbed the bars and fork, and wrenched like hell on it. Sure enough, creak creak, no matter where I grabbed the fork (lowers or uppers.) You could def feel and hear it was coming from the upper headset cup area.

Ok, so thought this was ruled out, but for shits and giggles I took it all apart, checked everything, and put it all back together, readjusted, etc. So far no creak. All I can think of is the Chris King top cap as a few parts that snap together and hold the compression ring in place, maybe something is going on there. As I said, this creak comes and goes. Not like a typical loose headset.

Anyway, apologies for the thread derail. Really though I'd ruled out the headset, and it was a fork issue. Still puzzled at what is/was causing it, but ride on I shall.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Gman086 said:


> You don't have to flip over, simply hold the front wheel between your legs while twisting the bars and you'll instantly be able to tell if the fork stanchions are creaking at the crown interface. If that's not the source (and you've ruled out headset) then it's most probably coming from one of the shifter cables (usually from a crash where the bars are spun 180 deg and stretching out the cable sheath from the casing wires).
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


Twisty trick doesn't really isolate bar/stem/steerer. You flip a bike over and you'll be able to tell exactly which leg...it's the anal-retentive side in me that drives this behavior for details...


----------



## agoura_biker (Jun 6, 2004)

Pau11y said:


> I've had one CSU develop the noise...warrantied.
> Flip bike upside down and remove frt wheel. Flex each leg in all directions to mimic actual riding forces and see if it makes noises you're hearing.


This is just the information I was looking for! I'm pretty sure my Pike CSU is creaking, and it is getting worse. I haven't done a thorough investigation of all the possibilities, but that seems like the most likely cause. I was looking for an easy way to check it out.

How long did it take to get it warrantied? I have other bikes I can ride...but I don't want to!

Also, is it dangerous to keep riding it? The noise is annoying but I could put up with it until it's convenient to return the fork.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

FYI - we were able to turn the stock solo air from my 2014 Enduro to a dual position air by purchasing the two components I listed earlier (I'm too lazy too look it up but if this kind of thing interests you look up my previous post, I've only got two in this thread). Now yes, the parts cost $500 so it doesn't make sense for most people, but white forks would not have worked on this bike and really , by the time I bought a dual air and swapped the air spring from 150 to 160 and sold the stock fork for a pittance, the cost would have been the same.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Preston67 said:


> FYI - we were able to turn the stock solo air from my 2014 Enduro to a dual position air by purchasing the two components I listed earlier (I'm too lazy too look it up but if this kind of thing interests you look up my previous post, I've only got two in this thread). Now yes, the parts cost $500 so it doesn't make sense for most people, but white forks would not have worked on this bike and really , by the time I bought a dual air and swapped the air spring from 150 to 160 and sold the stock fork for a pittance, the cost would have been the same.


You probably don't want to see this then:

Rock Shox Pike RCT3 27,5" Dual Position 160 Tapered ML 15 black | Suspension fork 27,5" All Mountain / Enduro (140-160mm)


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

rscecil007 said:


> All I can think of is the Chris King top cap as a few parts that snap together and hold the compression ring in place, maybe something is going on there. As I said, this creak comes and goes. Not like a typical loose headset.


There are a couple threads about this exact issue in the Santa Cruz forum. Chris King's heyday is over; they can't even copy Cane Creek's designs properly (when their patent expired). I'd get a CC 110 and eBay the CK if it were me.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

rscecil007 said:


> All I can think of is the Chris King top cap as a few parts that snap together and hold the compression ring in place, maybe something is going on there.


Maybe coat these snapped together parts w/ anti-seize?

BTW, I had a weird "clunk" coming from my CK Inset 3 on a Talllboy LTc. The arrangement had a 3/4" carbon spacer between the stem and the top cap of the Inset...1st time I' stuck this spacer in. I had preloaded everything and tightened up the stem pinch bolts to torque spec. So, I had thought it was something internal. Took it apart like you and found no sign of wear. Reassembled w/o the carbon spacer, and the noise is gone. I was warned a LOOOONG time ago that the carbon spacers of that size has a bit of give in compression and might not let you load up your headset correctly. If you're using CF stem steerer spacers, heads up.


----------



## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Gman086 said:


> There are a couple threads about this exact issue in the Santa Cruz forum. Chris King's heyday is over; they can't even copy Cane Creek's designs properly (when their patent expired). I'd get a CC 110 and eBay the CK if it were me.
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


So there's an known issue with King's new Griplock compression system or whatever? Damn, that would explain why there's a similar issue going on with my other bike, that also has a King headset in it. Ugh...

Maybe it's time to try that Cane Creek.


----------



## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

Has anyone come up with a solution for the top-out knock that many forks have? I've been living with it for the last few months, and it's finally starting to annoy me. Mine is the Solo air 29 160mm rct3. I bought it as a 150mm fork and made the conversion to 160mm myself. The klunk or knock was not noticeable for the first one hundred miles or so.. I've got around 500 miles on it now.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

Rick Draper said:


> You probably don't want to see this then:
> 
> Rock Shox Pike RCT3 27,5" Dual Position 160 Tapered ML 15 black | Suspension fork 27,5" All Mountain / Enduro (140-160mm)


Well, huh...That's for a 27.5 but I found the one for a 29. Those were not available anywhere I looked last week, and the word I heard is they wouldn't be available until July. Oh well ! To be honest I actually kind of wanted to put a new 2015 Talas on there but again they're not quite available yet either.


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

is Pike really better than the new Fox 36 2015. I'm torn between the two on which fork I should purchase. 

Also is it easier to service pike and purchase parts?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Love my Pike but the copout knocking from the airspring is very annoying.


----------



## chick0 (Apr 4, 2009)

Rick Draper said:


> Love my Pike but the copout knocking from the airspring is very annoying.


What is this knocking that the airspring makes? I am only now looking into Pikes as im about to get new forks, unsure if i will wait and get the new Fox 36's..


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

chick0 said:


> What is this knocking that the airspring makes? I am only now looking into Pikes as im about to get new forks, unsure if i will wait and get the new Fox 36's..


I will get you a video of mine later on. Its a great fork but the chambers apparently equalising is driving me mad, it sounds like its going to knock itself to pieces on the trail!


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

... it should not make knocking noises. Maybe have your fork serviced? Topout knock should not happen either. It's a sign of either the neg chaimber not filling up or a defective rebound damper.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

JeroenK said:


> ... it should not make knocking noises. Maybe have your fork serviced? Topout knock should not happen either. It's a sign of either the neg chaimber not filling up or a defective rebound damper.


Its the air spring side for sure, not the damper.


----------



## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

My 160 has knocked on top out since day one.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Stripped it down now, damper was full of air so its has dropped its oil out of somewhere. Going to order a full charger seal kit tomorrow.


----------



## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

Hey y'all, I would recommend removing the air shaft assembly and liberally applying slick honey (or similar) to the shaft itself and _*all *_seals. If you want to really make sure the issue won't return, replace the seals and O-rings- the replacements are all included with the Pike.

This is based on my experience: I swapped my air shaft from 150 to 160mm and followed the SRAM directions exactly (they do not call for lube on* all *the air shaft seals, particularly the scraper and o-ring between the seal head and air shaft). The fork seemed fine at first, but within a few rides it felt super firm (even after lowering the pressure) and eventually the oil seal popped out of the lower on the air spring side. Of course this was happening because air was leaking from the positive spring, into the negative, and then eventually into the lowers.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Gman086 said:


> There are a couple threads about this exact issue in the Santa Cruz forum. Chris King's heyday is over; they can't even copy Cane Creek's designs properly (when their patent expired). I'd get a CC 110 and eBay the CK if it were me.
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


I've a King on my TRc woith a Pike - replaced the upper compression bits with Cane Creek spare parts. Stays tight. Is quiet. Reduced my upper stack height.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

scrublover said:


> I've a King on my TRc woith a Pike - replaced the upper compression bits with Cane Creek spare parts. Stays tight. Is quiet. Reduced my upper stack height.


Throw up some pics, plz.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Pau11y said:


> Throw up some pics, plz.


Here you go.










Best measure/estimate gives me about 10mm lower stack height - helps offset the taller front end by quite a bit, paired with a slammed stem run negative rise. Me likey. Been six months or so Got the headset when I got the Pike. No creaking, no loosening or slipping. Feels solid.










It's a couple spacers and a spacer/seal on top of the compression ring, to give enough height for the bottom of the stem to clear the headset. Juuuust enough when things area ll snugged up that nothing rubs.










I like the HTA with the slightly taller fork but still want a low front end. 
Bar is ~ 1" below seat, my preference for trail bike setups.

Probably would have been easier and for sure cheaper to just stick with the CC unit I was running, but wanted the gold blingy bits. Sucker.

Been really digging the Pike paired on this bike!


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

j-fox said:


> The charger damper has nothing to do with it whatsoever. You have a positive air gap between the non-drive side dust wiper and bottom bolt that's causing a secondary preload. It's an assembly error that Rockshox hasn't addressed yet.
> 
> Remove the schrader valve, turn compression damping off, and push the fork down until it bottoms out. You'll likely pop the non-driveside dust wiper out, then you can clean with alcohol around the dust wiper seat on the lowers and the ridges on the dust wiper itself that contact the side of the lowers when it's reinserted. Take some 5wt oil and lube up the foam ring under the dust wiper until it looks saturated - You shouldn't have to remove it, just drip some oil on there while it's seated in the lowers.
> 
> Reinsert the dust wiper after you've cleaned with alcohol and use a plastic tire lever to carefully insert it until it's flush. Use the drive-side dust wiper as a reference for depth if necessary. Now you can reinstall the schrader valve and re-inflate the fork up to recommended spec for your weight.


After being ridden once, the pressure should have equalized.

As Rick Draper noted, if the Charger was assembled with to much oil, the bladder can contact the stanchion, and restrict compression, so it COULD be the damper.

PS: You can remove seals if you really want, or you can just clean the exterior surface real well, slip the point of a zip tie down between the seal and the stanchion, and release any pressure, if any.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

scrublover said:


> Here you go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's awesome scrublover! You do want to cut down your steerer tube tho (speaking from experience sitting here with a broken rib ). I like my bars low too, especially with the bigger wheels and longer fork.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Rocks (May 26, 2014)

*Woohoo!!! Fork with massive ramp up problem solved!!!*



thuren said:


> After being ridden once, the pressure should have equalized.
> 
> As Rick Draper noted, if the Charger was assembled with to much oil, the bladder can contact the stanchion, and restrict compression, so it COULD be the damper.
> 
> PS: You can remove seals if you really want, or you can just clean the exterior surface real well, slip the point of a zip tie down between the seal and the stanchion, and release any pressure, if any.


Woohoo!!! 

I just tried with a small zip tie and guess what? A very nice pssschhhh sound of air leaving. Now, without air spring pressure I can easily push down the fork to full travel which was quite hard to do before. Back to the same air spring pressure as before the sag increased from less than 20% to more than 25% (I will top up some to get back to 20%). No longer any weird massive ramp up feeling when pushing the fork, just plushness. I can't wait for my next bike ride!! 

Thank you very much thuren!!! Your tip was bang on! You have saved me from quite a boring procedure of returning the pike for inspection and an even more boring time of waiting for the forks to return. Thanks again!


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

I just had my second ride on a 2014, 150mm solo-air 26 fork today. I started with 27% sag, medium rebound and medium compression damping on the first ride. Today I removed all compression damping and increased rebound 1 click. It is very impressive at speed, over rocks and landing jumps. Awesome really.

Where I am having an issue is with a lack of low speed compression damping (do not say doh). Oddly, I have little issue with the fork diving when I pedal standing up. I thought I would, but with 800mm bars I have a massive advantage over fork movement driving down on the pedals when climbing or accelerating (and that is very relative with me in the chub of my life). It's brake dive that is my worry.

I've come from 140mm to 150 and from a fork that had to damp and ride high in its travel to avoid bottoming on big hits. The Pike is a subtle fork. I've used all the travel on both rides and I think that suggests a logical air pressure for my local trails. However, I could increase the air pressure to decrease brake drive....

I suspect the problem may not be my fork settings, rather my habit of braking late into corners using a less compliant fork. Also, I have added 10mm travel, plus better brakes that are still bedding in and getting stronger (Avid Juicy 7 to Icetech XT) as I ride farther. 

I trust the bike and the fork, but I am unsure whether it is me creating my own problem. Please suggest some adjustment on the Pike that may help. I mean, no-one wants to waste time on learning and adapting..............


----------



## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

Bottomless tokens... That should help. Install an Extra one and see how it goes. Will make the fork more progressive.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

iguanabartola said:


> Bottomless tokens... That should help. Install an Extra one and see how it goes. Will make the fork more progressive.


No, that won't help, that would make him run less pressure and increase the dive. If you want it to run higher, you use less tokens and more pressure (linear). More progressive means to achieve the same bottom-out protection, you run less pressure and sag more. The first part of the travel will be used easier (better for small bumps) and the last part will be harder (than before).

He needs to turn up the compression damping a few clicks, I find at least 4-5 seems to help with this and the fork stability significantly. It makes small bumps a little harsher, but repetitive square bumps at speed are actually a little better IMO due to the increased stability and how it forces the high-speed circuits open.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

^^THIS!

You simply need more air pressure. You should have about an inch of travel left after a trail ride and only use that for larger jumps and drops. That and go faster on rebound and the Pike really comes into it's own.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Jayem said:


> No, that won't help, that would make him run less pressure and increase the dive. If you want it to run higher, you use less tokens and more pressure (linear). More progressive means to achieve the same bottom-out protection, you run less pressure and sag more. The first part of the travel will be used easier (better for small bumps) and the last part will be harder (than before).
> 
> He needs to turn up the compression damping a few clicks, I find at least 4-5 seems to help with this and the fork stability significantly. It makes small bumps a little harsher, but repetitive square bumps at speed are actually a little better IMO due to the increased stability and how it forces the high-speed circuits open.


Wrong.
Your setup pressure will be lower, but where your static sag point is...27%...will be the same pressure regardless of volume, and from that point going deeper into the travel, the spring curve will ramp up faster.

Put in one more token and set your sag to the same amount, and your fork WILL be more compliant in low spd compression hit, AND ramp up faster towards end of stroke.

If you have any doubts, search for the Pike air spring curve and look. To support your weight...a static value...the air pressure will be the same. Draw a vertical line at the 27% sag mark and bring all those curves to the same point there. You will see that the unweighed air pressure will be lower w/ more tokens, but shoot up faster/steeper than w/ no tokens.


----------



## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

I'm with Pau11y on this. How does adding tokens require you to run less pressure? You're simply changing the volume of the air chamber to make it more progressive, which has nothing to do with your pressure or sag.

IMO there are a few different ways for Ridinparadise to get what he's after... and which is best comes down to riding style.

For me, the stock Pike was too linear, and the fix was adding a token, and not changing anything else (although I also tried increasing pressure and damping)



Jayem said:


> No, that won't help, that would make him run less pressure and increase the dive. If you want it to run higher, you use less tokens and more pressure (linear). More progressive means to achieve the same bottom-out protection, you run less pressure and sag more.


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Gman086 said:


> ^^THIS!
> 
> You simply need more air pressure. You should have about an inch of travel left after a trail ride and only use that for larger jumps and drops. That and go faster on rebound and the Pike really comes into it's own.
> 
> ...


Drop a coil in, even better rebound


----------



## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

Pau11y said:


> Put in one more token and set your sag to the same amount, and your fork WILL be more compliant in low spd compression hit, AND ramp up faster towards end of stroke.


This is exactly my experience hence my initial recommendation.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Ridnparadise said:


> I trust the bike and the fork, but I am unsure whether it is me creating my own problem. Please suggest some adjustment on the Pike that may help. I mean, no-one wants to waste time on learning and adapting..............


Ridnparadise,
When I got my (warranty) Pike, I dropped the lowers and changed the lube oil from whatever RS used to a 20 w 50 synthetic motor oil. On my first Pike (29er/150mm), I just rode it out of the box w/ 3 tokens, and I was using ~48psi to get 27% sag (I'm ~185 kitted up). I redid the lube oil on that first first Pike and had to up my pressure up to ~65psi. I guess the fork was a bit sticky out of the box. On the 2nd (warranty) Pike, I'm at ~60psi...but then I don't have as many miles on this 2nd fork yet so I may need to up the pressure after more miles.

I've got ~4 clicks in compression from wide open and rebound is just a one or two click shy of the middle towards the open side. If you try this setting and find the rebound too slow, on the first Pike, I ran NO rebound damping because the pressure was so low.

So, redo your lube oil w/ a synthetic motor oil, put in one more token, dial back your rebound a bit, and set your sag to 27%. I'd be very interested in how well this setup helps to solve your problem. Good luck!


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

scrublover said:


> Here you go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh sweet! I think I can just use some of those metal shims! My InSet 3 will compress down so far that the bottom of the compression ring (the thing in your hand) will rub the top of the upper cup. I stuck in 2 of those plastic thingies that comes w/ King HSs and I'm getting the proper spacing now. But the internals are cutting it up.

Anyway, thanks for the pics! Now I know where to go look for some shims


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

FM said:


> I'm with Pau11y on this. How does adding tokens require you to run less pressure? You're simply changing the volume of the air chamber to make it more progressive, which has nothing to do with your pressure or sag.
> 
> IMO there are a few different ways for Ridinparadise to get what he's after... and which is best comes down to riding style.
> 
> For me, the stock Pike was too linear, and the fix was adding a token, and not changing anything else (although I also tried increasing pressure and damping)


Because adding more tokens makes it more progressive, you end up with more force at the end resisting further compression. Smaller air chamber. Basic stuff and why the very first TALAS forks were so terrible, because they were too linear, pressure that got you a nice soft ride led to bottom out. If you go for the same sag, with a more progressive air chamber, you'll lose some travel. Usually when people go more progressive they use a softer spring or less PSI, because it gives softer initial travel, good for small bumps/compliance.


----------



## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

We get that... it's semantics at this point



Jayem said:


> If you go for the same sag, with a more progressive air chamber, you'll lose some travel.


Which is exactly what you want to do, if your sag is where you like it but the fork bottoms out/dives frequently, as Ridnparadise described (granted it sounds like he needs more compression damping too).

When I first got my Pike, it felt great but occasionally dove in corners. Adding compression damping caused it to spike. Adding air pressure reduced small bump compliance. Adding a token but making no other changes fixed the diving without affecting how the fork worked otherwise.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

FM said:


> We get that... it's semantics at this point
> 
> Which is exactly what you want to do, if your sag is where you like it but the fork bottoms out/dives frequently, as Ridnparadise described (granted it sounds like he needs more compression damping too).
> 
> When I first got my Pike, it felt great but occasionally dove in corners. Adding compression damping caused it to spike. Adding air pressure reduced small bump compliance. Adding a token but making no other changes fixed the diving without affecting how the fork worked otherwise.


I see a big difference between "bottoms" and "dives". Bottoms means uses all travel and/or comes to an abrupt halt, it's a safety and equipment issue and needs to be fixed to prevent damaging/destroying the fork. Diving is a riding and control issue and needs to be fixed to leave travel for the next bump so it's not crazy harsh in rocky g-out turns, braking, riding off rollers, etc, (even if it makes it a little harsher in other normal conditions). I don't see this one as semantics, I see those as two separate tuning variables.

Although I agree that making it more progressive helped on the smaller stuff and made it more supple, I found that it made it spike more at high speed in really choppy terrain, as if the damping can't really cope with the variance of progressive/linear spring rates.


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Thank you all for a professional review of where I am at with this fork. First, let me say it is a great fork. I started riding with 5 clicks of compression damping and it did control fork dive, but then it was on a new bike with new brakes. Those brakes are now bedded and being lighter and better than my old ones, I am being a bit heavy fingered at times. I expect that to change over the next few rides, but in the meantime I removed all compression damping because even with the mid range setting there was still dive and I wanted to explore the fork's characteristics. 

I suspect it does dive more under brakes than I would like, but if it does not interfere with climbing and accelerating, then maybe it is not under-damped for low speed compression. Maybe.

As to using all the travel on an average ride; I will not ride harder anywhere than I do on my local trails without changing the settings for a DH trail as needed. G-outs and front-on hits at low and higher speeds are part of the furniture here, as are staccato rocks. I've already taken some jumps harder and sent it farther than normal after 2 rides. 

I know by pumping up the air I can stop a lot of brake dive, but I would rather not. I bought this fork exactly for the ability to use all the travel under control. Also, while I like to tinker at times, I'd rather explore combinations available without token changes at first. My riding mate rarely uses more than 70% of his travel front and back. I am not sure I would want a particular suspension system if the plan was to ride it for a one in a year trail. That's not his reason; he's just a sick single speeder with a love for rigidity.

So I guess I'm just a PIA looking for owner enthusiasm and I have received it. Thanks again


----------



## Grizzy (Sep 12, 2009)

dragunov said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Found this thread trying to understand if my Pike has a problem or not.Can you please let me know what is the fork behavior when the charger knob is turned to lock position? Is the fork suppose to lock? The behavior i had out of the box with this setting was that the fork was compressing like 5-10% of the travel and then it was locking. After a while this behavior changed and now the fork is not locking at all. The LBS/SRAM dealer did check this and but still in the lock mode the fork is not locking. Any thoughts?
> 
> ...


Just checked my 1 week old pike and the lock is not a lockout, but its VERY stiff and not perceivable moving while standing.

The unweighted sag is an issue with the air spring - but I don't think I'd sweat it too much. that said - it is a $1,000.00 fork so it really should be perfect...


----------



## Grizzy (Sep 12, 2009)

Has anyone tried to modify the tokens by making them smaller? 

I'm on a 27.5, and one token is too linear - but two is too progressive (really stiff). I think 1.25-1.5 would be perfect. 

I'll be cutting one in half and trying next week, but would be interested in others feedback. If anyone has a way to make them that might be a nice item to sell...


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Grizzy said:


> Has anyone tried to modify the tokens by making them smaller?


Yup. A buddy has cut one in half.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Deerhill said:


> Drop a coil in, even better rebound


So... if you have an option to do this I'm all ears! If someone made a Ti spring for this fork it would be ungodly good!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Although I agree that making it more progressive helped on the smaller stuff and made it more supple, I found that it made it spike more at high speed in really choppy terrain, as if the damping can't really cope with the variance of progressive/linear spring rates.


Exactly my findings Jayem. Now you guys have to KEEP IN MIND the travel variation plays a HUGE role in the necessity for the tokens because they ALL use the same air chamber volume. This is exactly why the 140mm version comes with tokens installed while the 160 does not. The OP is getting token advice that may or may not pertain to his fork!!! I know for a fact that the 160 doesn't need tokens or you'll get harsh high speed spiking when set at proper sag (for me is 25%) IF you're not a heavy rider (less than 200 lbs). IMHO having high speed compression dialed is far more important than getting a super plush ride for low speed events but to each their own.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

Gman086 said:


> Now you guys have to KEEP IN MIND the travel variation plays a HUGE role in the necessity for the tokens because they ALL use the same air chamber volume.


I agree but the rider weight, riding style & trails makes probably even more difference than the travel.

For example, my fork is 160mm and I prefer two tokens, less than that and the fork dives _and_ bottoms, running the RS recommended air pressure for my weight (rounded up).

Ultimately what works great for us isn't gonna be ideal for everybody else.



FM said:


> IMO there are a few different ways for Ridinparadise to get what he's after... and which is best comes down to riding style.


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

Hi all, 
I noticed that pedal mode was feeling a bit weird on my pikes, seemed like a bit more sudden ramp up than normal. Decided to give them a bit of a service just for a quick look.

So, dropped the lowers for the first time since purchase. The Air spring side had clearish oil in it as expected, but damper side had a fair bit of red oil like the stuff you'd expect to see inside the charge damper itself. Does this indicate a possible leak from damper into the lower leg, or do Rockshox use different oil in each side out of the factory? 

I've put the same clear oil in each side and refitted everything, so I guess I could check again in a couple of weeks and see if the damper side has turned red.
cheers


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

hungrytiger said:


> Hi all,
> I noticed that pedal mode was feeling a bit weird on my pikes, seemed like a bit more sudden ramp up than normal. Decided to give them a bit of a service just for a quick look.
> 
> So, dropped the lowers for the first time since purchase. The Air spring side had clearish oil in it as expected, but damper side had a fair bit of red oil like the stuff you'd expect to see inside the charge damper itself. Does this indicate a possible leak from damper into the lower leg, or do Rockshox use different oil in each side out of the factory?
> ...


How many months you've been riding urs?

Is this a common problem with pikes? What version is yours 13 or 14?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

That's been leaking damper oil. Will need a service on the damper.


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

Rick Draper said:


> That's been leaking damper oil. Will need a service on the damper.


This would be a warranty issue? (Had them 3 months)


----------



## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

hungrytiger said:


> This would be a warranty issue? (Had them 3 months)


We see that most of the dampers are leaking that come here for our upgrades. It is not really a wear or damage issue but more of a design issue. The cartridge rod when fully extended can wiggle back and forth within the cartridge cap bushing and the rebound piston ring seal/guide and cause oil to leak by the rod seal. Because the rebound piston guides the other end of the rod and helps stop the "wiggle" it needs to be as good of a guide bushing as it is a piston seal. We use a wider and tighter fitting piston band to eliminate this problem when we install or cartridge upgrade valving and piston kit in the charger damper.


----------



## MntnMan (Feb 1, 2008)

Doesn't the wider and tighter piston band create increased stiction?


----------



## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

MntnMan said:


> Doesn't the wider and tighter piston band create increased stiction?


Too loose is no good, tight enough to provide guidance and not to tight to cause stiction, is the key! The wider PTFE Moly/glass filled band is the same style piston band used on MX suspension cartridges and open bath dampers.


----------



## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Just installed my pike, and just to clarify, to slow down low speed, you turn the dial clockwise, or to the right? Same as rebound?


----------



## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^yes. To the right increases the amount of (initial?) force it takes to compress the fork. As per other posts, it only affects the "descend" or "open" position. 


There are two types of mountain bikers. Those who are faster than me, and me.


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

crseekins said:


> We see that most of the dampers are leaking that come here for our upgrades. It is not really a wear or damage issue but more of a design issue. The cartridge rod when fully extended can wiggle back and forth within the cartridge cap bushing and the rebound piston ring seal/guide and cause oil to leak by the rod seal. Because the rebound piston guides the other end of the rod and helps stop the "wiggle" it needs to be as good of a guide bushing as it is a piston seal. We use a wider and tighter fitting piston band to eliminate this problem when we install or cartridge upgrade valving and piston kit in the charger damper.


Thanks, that makes sense now (unfortunately!). Do you sell the part on your website? I would happily buy it.


----------



## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

hungrytiger said:


> Thanks, that makes sense now (unfortunately!). Do you sell the part on your website? I would happily buy it.


Yes, but it is part of the Charger revalve kit, it includes the piston, valving and midvalve system that we install in the upgrade kit. We will look into producing a new piston ring for the stock rebound piston that acts like more of a guide and still keeps the stiction down.


----------



## riding4fun (Mar 24, 2010)

A question to all you Pike owners - is this fork still the best do-it-all 150/160mm fork?

I have not had the time to read through the 1K posts on this matter, but hope to have a free day soon. Anyway what's the short list pro's/con's if you don't mind me cheating.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I've ridden the Manitou Mattoc, the X-Fusion Vengence, the Suntour Auron and the Fox 34. 

I own a Pike Dual Air. 

The Mattoc is the only fork that offers the lower weight and supportive ride of the Pike. It sounds as though the new Fox 36 is equally impressive. The Vengence and Auron certainly were very stiff, but in order to get them plush it was a choice of either too little air (lots of movement on flat trail and climbing) or too much (not plush). If were looking for a 29er fork, the Pike would be both cheaper and more available than the Fox 36 and 90% of riders won't notice the difference. 

I acquired the Pike at nearly half of MSRP, but if I was buying without discounts I'd probably be riding a Mattoc.

If I needed another 29er fork, I'd buy another Pike.


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

crseekins said:


> We see that most of the dampers are leaking that come here for our upgrades. It is not really a wear or damage issue but more of a design issue. The cartridge rod when fully extended can wiggle back and forth within the cartridge cap bushing and the rebound piston ring seal/guide and cause oil to leak by the rod seal. Because the rebound piston guides the other end of the rod and helps stop the "wiggle" it needs to be as good of a guide bushing as it is a piston seal. We use a wider and tighter fitting piston band to eliminate this problem when we install or cartridge upgrade valving and piston kit in the charger damper.


I noticed this issue recently when doing a slider service. Tapped the damper shaft against the seals upon reassembly and it burped a little pink oil. Do you think this would happen when assembled and ridden in situations where the fork is flexing?


----------



## mikewadley (Aug 19, 2012)

Where did you get such a good deal on the Pike? That's definitely my next upgrade.



PHeller said:


> I've ridden the Manitou Mattoc, the X-Fusion Vengence, the Suntour Auron and the Fox 34.
> 
> I own a Pike Dual Air.
> 
> ...


----------



## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

mikewadley said:


> Where did you get such a good deal on the Pike? That's definitely my next upgrade.


X2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## riding4fun (Mar 24, 2010)

ok,

So i'm riding a 26" 150mm rig and rider come in at 245lbs, still the best fork for Trail / AM?


----------



## eiri (Oct 11, 2009)

I own a Solo Air Pike for about half a year now. Yesterday I noticed some play at the rebound. It is just a less then a week before I go biking in the Swiss Alps, so I don't have time to service the fork.

Can I do something myself about this? Can I continue to use the fork for a week with this play? Any advise?

Thanks.


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

eiri said:


> Yesterday I noticed some play at the rebound.


What do you mean by this? Please describe a bit more, or I doubt you'll get good advise.

Do you notice play when riding? Or when standing still and pulling up on the bars? What is the play like? A small bit of travel with little resistance, or more like metal to metal sounds?


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Jayem said:


> I see a big difference between "bottoms" and "dives". Bottoms means uses all travel and/or comes to an abrupt halt, it's a safety and equipment issue and needs to be fixed to prevent damaging/destroying the fork. Diving is a riding and control issue and needs to be fixed to leave travel for the next bump so it's not crazy harsh in rocky g-out turns, braking, riding off rollers, etc, (even if it makes it a little harsher in other normal conditions). I don't see this one as semantics, I see those as two separate tuning variables.
> 
> Although I agree that making it more progressive helped on the smaller stuff and made it more supple, I found that it made it spike more at high speed in really choppy terrain, as if the damping can't really cope with the variance of progressive/linear spring rates.


OK, after a bit more time on the bike (we've been digging too much lately), I would like to report back. Looking at it I can see both why it has been a slightly counterintuitive exercise and why some of the advice given has been really accurate. Pau11y had me thinking bingo and then wondering why his 29 fork experience would equate to my 26.

This is what has changed:
Air pressure up in 2 steps from 57 to 66lbs
Compression damping on 4 clicks from open (last report I opened it up completely)
Rebound damping reduced 2 clicks (faster) than midpoint

The thing is that with higher air pressure the small bump compliance is affected less by adding more compression damping. What I still have a problem with is why the small bump compliance is not (apparently) worsened by using higher air pressure!

I am sure I still don't have it quite right, but it is very close to what I want now. The fork is at its worst at really low speed over rocks (by low I mean really slow) and seems to get better the harder you slam it. I did not reach max travel (about 1cm off) on the last ride, but I also did not feel I needed it. Running lower air pressure I did feel I needed it - sounds stupid in retrospect.

Something tells me that until I sort the rear suspension out a bit, I won't be able to finesse the fork much more. It is strange to be more aware of the rear end performance than the fork and front of the bike. I seem to have gone from the wondering if all is OK to the [email protected]%& yes it is all working OK stage. I still think there is another stage to reach with this fork.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

I have a stumpy evo with pike and I am still working on tuning. I started with rebound and lowspeed compression in middle. Im 190lbs and was bottoming out constantly even with 20percent sag. Added one token and things seemed of helped, however fork feels harsher at slower speeds. I dropped sag to 25% and then tuned out rebound and low speed compression slightly from middle setting. Fork still feels slightly harsh on slow speed stuff. If I go too light on low speed compression & rebound fork dive becomes an issue and grip suffers in loose over hardpack trail conditions. Any recommendations?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I sure wanted my pike last weekend when I rented "demo" bikes at Trestle park in Colorado. It was good to have the lateral stiffness of the stock boxxers up front, but the pike is absolutely better damped.


----------



## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

half_man_half_scab said:


> I noticed this issue recently when doing a slider service. Tapped the damper shaft against the seals upon reassembly and it burped a little pink oil. Do you think this would happen when assembled and ridden in situations where the fork is flexing?


It is a contributing factor to the loss of oil and air accumulating in the Charger Dampers that we have seen, and appears that the these symptoms are appearing here on this message board also.


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

So, this seal is poor when subject to lateral forces, and leakage isn't necessarily an indicator of wear? 

If you're a lazy man, as I am, you could probably bleed it periodically from the top cap and not expect catastrophic failure?


----------



## jselwyn (Mar 14, 2012)

half_man_half_scab said:


> If you're a lazy man, as I am, you could probably bleed it periodically from the top cap and not expect catastrophic failure?


I'm guessing this would be fine, minus one thing. The leaking bladder will be adding to the bath oil in the lower leg and could wind up blowing a seal.

It would fix the feeling of the deadspot in the fork while in trail/lockout. My fork had about an inch of travel before abruptly ramping up in the trail/lockout and I had it checked at a race this weekend. Bladder was 1/2 empty and red suspension fluid was in the lower leg. Refilled the bladder, dead spot is gone. If it happens again, I'll send my fork in to Sram.


----------



## tokarsky268 (Nov 16, 2013)

Hey everyone. I have a solo air 150mm. Am I correct that I can play with the internals to push it to 160mm? If so, what's the cost? Thanks in advance. I'm debating about getting a new rear shock with 0.25 in more stroke length to push the travel of my 140mm bike to 159mm. The logical thing to do would be to push the fork to 160mm if its not prohibitively expensive.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

stumpynerd said:


> I have a stumpy evo with pike and I am still working on tuning. I started with rebound and lowspeed compression in middle. Im 190lbs and was bottoming out constantly even with 20percent sag. Added one token and things seemed of helped, however fork feels harsher at slower speeds. I dropped sag to 25% and then tuned out rebound and low speed compression slightly from middle setting. Fork still feels slightly harsh on slow speed stuff. If I go too light on low speed compression & rebound fork dive becomes an issue and grip suffers in loose over hardpack trail conditions. Any recommendations?


Hey guys any tips?


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

tokarsky268 said:


> Hey everyone. I have a solo air 150mm. Am I correct that I can play with the internals to push it to 160mm? If so, what's the cost? Thanks in advance. I'm debating about getting a new rear shock with 0.25 in more stroke length to push the travel of my 140mm bike to 159mm. The logical thing to do would be to push the fork to 160mm if its not prohibitively expensive.


If you go out on ebay you can find the 160mm air spring for sale, usually around $220+.

I don't suppose you have a 29'er but if you do I have a brand new never used 160mm air spring (takeoff from an Enduro 29'er) that I will sell for $100, if anyone is interested PM me.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

stumpynerd said:


> Hey guys any tips?


You have too much sag and rebound damping. Leave LSC in the middle (6 clicks), ONLY 4 clicks rebound damping (from all the way out), 20-22.5% sag... MONEY!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

tokarsky268 said:


> Hey everyone. I have a solo air 150mm. Am I correct that I can play with the internals to push it to 160mm? If so, what's the cost? Thanks in advance. I'm debating about getting a new rear shock with 0.25 in more stroke length to push the travel of my 140mm bike to 159mm. The logical thing to do would be to push the fork to 160mm if its not prohibitively expensive.





Preston67 said:


> If you go out on ebay you can find the 160mm air spring for sale, usually around $220+.
> 
> I don't suppose you have a 29'er but if you do I have a brand new never used 160mm air spring (takeoff from an Enduro 29'er) that I will sell for $100, if anyone is interested PM me.


I got my 160 29er air sleeve for $35. You don't need the whole spring assembly - there's a single part that determines travel:
RockShox Pike Air Shaft Solo Air 160mm Travel 29 A1 - AEBike.com


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Gman086 said:


> You have too much sag and rebound damping. Leave LSC in the middle (6 clicks), ONLY 4 clicks rebound damping (from all the way out), 20-22.5% sag... MONEY!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


I will give more sag a shot and tune out rebound. However riding on loose over hardpack and sandy areas front tire washes out with very little rebound.


----------



## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

I've been debating whether to get a 26" Pike dual position for a while. After 1000 posts, what's the verdict on the Pike? BTW, it'd replace a Revelation 150 RLT.


----------



## dj1809 (Apr 5, 2012)

Another quick question to this resurrected thread: How much space is there between the O ring and the top of the stanchion at full travel on this fork?


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

dj1809 said:


> Another quick question to this resurrected thread: How much space is there between the O ring and the top of the stanchion at full travel on this fork?


None.


----------



## tokarsky268 (Nov 16, 2013)

Preston67 said:


> If you go out on ebay you can find the 160mm air spring for sale, usually around $220+.
> 
> I don't suppose you have a 29'er but if you do I have a brand new never used 160mm air spring (takeoff from an Enduro 29'er) that I will sell for $100, if anyone is interested PM me.


Nuts. 650b. Anyone in a similar situation asking a similar amount, PM me


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

tokarsky268 said:


> Nuts. 650b. Anyone in a similar situation asking a similar amount, PM me


Again... http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/pike-2014-a-861503-41.html#post11285448

See post #1018.


----------



## tokarsky268 (Nov 16, 2013)

Wow. Sweet. Thanks very much

RockShox Pike Air Shaft Solo Air 160mm Travel 27.5 / 140Travel 29 A1 - AEBike.com


----------



## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

riding4fun said:


> A question to all you Pike owners - is this fork still the best do-it-all 150/160mm fork?
> 
> I have not had the time to read through the 1K posts on this matter, but hope to have a free day soon. Anyway what's the short list pro's/con's if you don't mind me cheating.


I am a light rider 150lbs and it is a little harsh for me. A heavier rider may not feel the same. To me, Pike is excellent fork but it likes to be ridden hard and likes bigger hits.

I came from a Revelation 150mm and that fork was more lively but it could of been that it was a better fit for my weight. I also had a Van 36 160 and it was a better fit for me because of how lively it was.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

About time to change my seals for the 2nd time. Stock RS seals or Enduro?


----------



## riding4fun (Mar 24, 2010)

so, some light riders say the Pike is a little harsh, how about a 235-220 rider, would they feel the same way? Other options to consider at this price point is the 2015 Fox 36, if it ever is released.


----------



## Dazed (Feb 7, 2004)

I think my stock Pike is very plush. I'm 220#


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

I find at 240-250 the tokens and attention to sag make it an amazing fork for lift serve or trail duties.


----------



## bbbbking (Nov 7, 2008)

hi all,
the rockshox manual said, the lower leg oil have to using 0w-30 suspension fluid!
can't just using 15w on it?
anyone here try that b4 with no issue?
thx

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

I've just finished my first ride with 130mm 650b Pike.
I am 140lbs and have only one token installed (Rock Shox recommends 2 for 130mm 650b pike...) I might try 2, since I have used all the travel (only 1foot drops) and the sag is at 25%. Will try 30% and 2 tokens.
Otherwise, the fork is great, very plush.

I also got my RP23 avalanched. I am impressed. Nice combo with the fork.
Bike is a SC TRc 650.

I had to take it easy today, my first ride after broken wrist.


----------



## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

jselwyn said:


> I'm guessing this would be fine, minus one thing. The leaking bladder will be adding to the bath oil in the lower leg and could wind up blowing a seal.
> 
> It would fix the feeling of the deadspot in the fork while in trail/lockout. My fork had about an inch of travel before abruptly ramping up in the trail/lockout and I had it checked at a race this weekend. Bladder was 1/2 empty and red suspension fluid was in the lower leg. Refilled the bladder, dead spot is gone. If it happens again, I'll send my fork in to Sram.


I had the same with my fork. How is yours doing with just a refill?


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I need some help setting up my Pike Dual Air for PA rock gardens. 

Right now its nearly perfect from a flat trail or climbing perspective. Stays nice and high in the travel, not a lot of movement when climbing, absorbs bigger hits and stays under control. 

At slower speeds through rock gardens I'm a bit underwhelmed. Need more plushness.

Should I increase the sag (decrease the pressure) or do I need to adjust the high or low speed rebound?


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PHeller said:


> I need some help setting up my Pike Dual Air for PA rock gardens.
> 
> Right now its nearly perfect from a flat trail or climbing perspective. Stays nice and high in the travel, not a lot of movement when climbing, absorbs bigger hits and stays under control.
> 
> ...


What % sag do you have now in the attack position?

You only have one Rebound and one Compression adjustment. Where are they set now?

How many bottomless tokens installed?

What do you weigh?


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

This is a great info I will repost Suspension has 2-4 segments of function.

1) *Spring. * *The spring in most modern suspension is air. * It has the responsibility of absorbing the impacts, and holding the suspension extended. *This is all spring. *Nothing else absorbs the impacts.
2) Compression damping- Damping is responsible for ONLY slowing the movement of compression. *Improper damping can cause either a suspension setup that is too reactive, or not reactive enough (harshness)
* * 2A] Low Speed Compression damping. * *Low Speed Damping will slow the compression of the fork or shock during SLOW compressions. * Not how fast you are moving, but how fast the shock or fork is trying to compress. *In this case, a "low speed"
* * 2B] High Speed Compression damping. * This only SLOWS the compression of the shock or fork. *In this case, when the fork or shock is attempting to move through the travel very fast.
3) Rebound Damping. * *This is a separate circuit that is responsible ONLY for slowing the speed at which the fork or shock attempts to extend outward. * *The stronger your spring, the faster the fork or shock will attempt to extend after compressing. *If the rebound is too fast, you can have issues with control, as the suspension constantly tries to extend very fast. * If rebound is too slow, you can actually cause the forks or shock to compress fully, or "pack" in areas of rapid impacts.


Your spring needs to be what takes the impacts. * You cannot rely on your damping to compensate for bad spring rate. * It may work somewhat, but you do not get even close to the proper suspension performance.
When you are running a lower pressure (spring) but using high compression damping, you are using the damping circuit to absorb impacts, not the spring. * The reason you are still getting what appears to be good feel, is there is no spring to help hold the suspension at extension. You are simply forcing the oil through the damping circuit much faster than it should. * You are definitely not going to get what is good suspension function out of that, and can damage the compression circuit.

The FIRST thing you should set on any suspension, is the spring. * You adjust this by sag. * People have different preferences, but that is the first thing you set up. * Damping (rebound and compression) circuits are supposed to be fully OPEN (minimum damping) sag adjustments. You do not want the damping to potentially cause the fork or shock to not compress sufficiently. *
Once this is set where you think is proper, try setting the damping (rebound and all compressions) at the mid point. *Ride it. * If the suspension seems harsh, put in less compression damping. *If the front seems hard to control, or the rear feels like it is trying to pogo you off, add more rebound damping. *If the suspension sits at the bottom of the travel during a section, try less rebound damping. * 
If the bike blows through the travel, you can try increasing the compression damping until it feels harsh. *Then back off 1-3 clicks, and try again. * If you are still blowing through travel, try increasing your spring rate (pressure). * 
You will then need to START ALL OVER AGAIN and repeat.

My experience is from 15 years of motocross, but the basic theories are still the same. * Heck, my last mountain bike didn't have adjustable compression, or rebound. * Elastomers stink.


*
This is a good post, I would like to add to it by posting the proper steps to setting up suspension, and the reason you should do them in this order:

1. Set up the spring rate. This should always be done first as a proper spring rate always trumps everything else. All external adjustments should be fully open. Start with the proper sag for your type of riding. 15-25% is normal for most types of riding. 

2. Set up rebound: You do this before LSC because your rebound setting has an effect on the compression stroke. The amount of effect depends on the fork/shock, but there is at least a small effect on every fork/shock. You set it up after setting your spring rate because the spring rate directly affects the rebound setting. I am going to leave high speed rebound out of the equation because most forks/shocks do not have external adjustments(or internal adjustments for that matter) Generally speaking, you want to run your rebound as fast as possible without it feeling like its deflecting off of objects, or feeling like a pogo stick. 

3. Set your LSC: As stated above, you do this after rebound because the rebound *adjustment contributes to compression. You set it up before HSC because the LSC has an effect on HSC. This setting is very subjective depending on what the rider is looking for. 

4. HSC(if available). This is the last setting to adjust. long story short(and put simply), HSC is the blow off of LSC. This setting will have a big effect on the overall damping curve. It will control how harsh the feel is and how controlled the feel is on square edge hits(or any other high shaft speed event). Running to0 much leads to spiking and a harsh feel, running too little leads to a soft/wallowing feeling and suspension that can bottom out too easily. 

Hope that helps a little.


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Thanks jazza (that's ozzie for jazzanova) for a really good summary. 

My Pike does not have high and low speed rebound damping! After reading through this thread I set up my sag first, as suggested in this summary. It's a 150mm solo air 26". I got 27% sag out of what I thought was a sensible air pressure and set everything else to medium. During the first rides I had to increase my rebound damping to make it more rideable because it was wallowing on slow speed rock impacts and pogo-ing on the way out.

After a month my answer has been to increase the pressure from 57 to 66, decrease the rebound damping 3 clicks and increase the compression damping 6 clicks. I have not even checked the sag on this combination, because I know it rides right for my bike and my trails. 

With higher air pressure I can use the strength of the fork to help my rides, whereas when I was riding the air pressure suited to sag, I was failing to ever get that power response out of the fork. It rode really smoothly, for sure, until it didn't. It did not inspire any confidence.

So this is where I raise my confusion. I have a fork that soaks up small stuff without losing feedback and is really solid and reliable when I need it to be. This fork definitely takes stress off my frame and rear shock. I have much more fun and confidence because of it. However, I have not been able to set it up as suggested on this thread. It concerns me I may be dealing with some internal fault that is trickskiing me into thinking I am happy, until it gets me with blood and disability when I take my mind off things.


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

Just an update on my charge damper leaking into the lower leg, Rockshox warrantied it and replaced the entire damper assembly. Pretty happy with that, hope it lasts!


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Ridnparadise said:


> After a month my answer has been to increase the pressure from 57 to 66, decrease the rebound damping 3 clicks and increase the compression damping 6 clicks. I have not even checked the sag on this combination, because I know it rides right for my bike and my trails.
> 
> With higher air pressure I can use the strength of the fork to help my rides, whereas when I was riding the air pressure suited to sag, I was failing to ever get that power response out of the fork. It rode really smoothly, for sure, until it didn't. It did not inspire any confidence.
> 
> So this is where I raise my confusion. I have a fork that soaks up small stuff without losing feedback and is really solid and reliable when I need it to be. This fork definitely takes stress off my frame and rear shock. I have much more fun and confidence because of it. However, I have not been able to set it up as suggested on this thread. It concerns me I may be dealing with some internal fault that is trickskiing me into thinking I am happy, until it gets me with blood and disability when I take my mind off things.


A lot of the suggested setups on this thread are off base. IMHO The Pike needs higher air pressures to really come into its own and prevent dive. I run 20% sag. LSC set right in the middle. Back off the rebound even more (only 4-6 clicks in); that really helps smooth out some of the harshness from having a higher spring rate (air pressure in this case). And do NOT go by how it feels in the parking lot - I would never set up my open bath forks this way but that's how the Charger damper works best. I'm a perfectionist - trust me, you are NOT doing it wrong! Everything you state is on the right track and jazza's comments were good too. Also RS really did their homework regarding the HSC and HSR and I feel it's a GOOD thing they are not adjustable on the Pike as they are dialed!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Alright I think I have the harshness dialed out along with my grip issues on loose over hardpack. I took out one bottomless token and reset my sag to about 25% front and back. Set LSC to middle and started with a about 7 clicks of rebound from full fast and tweeked LCS and rebound slightly on the trail. Double log hops lined with rocks fork exhibited no harshness. Felt great on rocky step downs and no excessive fork diving when braking hard.


----------



## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

hungrytiger said:


> Just an update on my charge damper leaking into the lower leg, Rockshox warrantied it and replaced the entire damper assembly. Pretty happy with that, hope it lasts!


I think i'm having the same problem. Did you have to have your lbs dissemble your fork or will Rockshox deal with you directly?


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

Ratt said:


> I think i'm having the same problem. Did you have to have your lbs dissemble your fork or will Rockshox deal with you directly?


Lbs.


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

How durable is pike compared to fox 34/36?


----------



## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

rave81 said:


> How durable is pike compared to fox 34/36?


I went from a Fox 34 Float 29 140 Kashima/CTD/TrailAdjust to a Pike RCT3 150 Solo Air on my Yeti and while I wouldn't exactly call it game-changing the Pike is *clearly* are more robust chassis ... crown, stantions, and lowers. They're in the same general league but the Pike is clearly more burly. I can't speak to how durable the internals are as I barely have 1000 miles on the Pike and I had almost 4k on the Fox.

The only thing I ever needed to do to the Fox was to service the lower bath (couple times a year, fresh oil and Slick Honey on the bushings and wipers) and change the dust wipers (once). I was naughty and never changed the damper oil, it just always ran great. I pulled the top-cap and examined the oil a couple times but it was always clear so I left it...not very scientific but there you go.

I haven't even felt the urge to drop the lowers on the Pike yet though, and I consider myself a bit sensitive to suspension feel. The Pike was almost as smooth as my Fox from day one, and once run-in a bit it's been clearly as good if not better ... I sold the Fox so I can't do back-2-back compares.


----------



## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Is a 2015 version of the Pike coming?


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Lighter riders around 140-150lbs. Anyone on a 130mm 27.5 pike?
Numbers and settings you would like to share?


----------



## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

I just put a 140mm on my banshee prime 29er. 

I weigh 195 naked and put 90 psi in, I didn't use more than 100mm of travel. It feels better with 75 psi, but I'm thinking the oil levels are low. 

How to I check the oil levels? I ordered some 0w-30, but can I use reverb fluid?


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

unrooted said:


> I just put a 140mm on my banshee prime 29er.
> 
> I weigh 195 naked and put 90 psi in, I didn't use more than 100mm of travel. It feels better with 75 psi, but I'm thinking the oil levels are low.
> 
> How to I check the oil levels? I ordered some 0w-30, but can I use reverb fluid?


90 psi is way too much air. I weigh 225 lbs geared to ride and use 75.


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

I feel something strange with my fork reading from above. I use 95 psi and I can easily push the fork almost all the way down . On some drops I'm pushing it to the limit (maybe 5mm from bottoming it out) . Sounds something wrong? I get the same results using trail mode with Lsc dialled almost to maximum. 

160 dual position fork. I weight around 175 lbs.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Bogdan_mb said:


> I feel something strange with my fork reading from above. I use 95 psi and I can easily push the fork almost all the way down . On some drops I'm pushing it to the limit (maybe 5mm from bottoming it out) . Sounds something wrong? I get the same results using trail mode with Lsc dialled almost to maximum.
> 
> 160 dual position fork. I weight around 175 lbs.


How many tokens installed?


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

None. It's dual position so you can only put custom ones that I find pretty expensive ($50 + shipping + taxes) to get them in Europe since for Single air you get them for free. 

Don't get me wrong, I really like how the fork handles compared to my brothers Lyrik but I wonder if I should worry in any way.

Wheel size is 26


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

jazzanova said:


> How many tokens installed?


Also what wheel size.


----------



## peteer01 (Apr 26, 2005)

Road my 2014 Horsethief for the first time today. 29" Pike 120mm in the front. The bike is amazing.

My only concern/question is the disparity between the front and rear shock travel. With the help of my LBS, I've got my rear shock set for 200 psi (190 + 10). My front shock (Pike) is set for 90 psi (a 190 lbs rider). Riding in Decend/wide open on both, which I believe is the pressure and setting Salsa recommends for the rear shock on riders below 200 lbs, here what my travel looked like:














I'm using almost all, if not all, of my rear travel, but have plenty to spare on my front fork. The front and rear both felt good, but today was a much less aggressive trail than what I actually bought the bike for. While I road very aggressively today, I didn't really hit anything with the front fork that I would expect to use close to the maximum travel, but I also wasn't expecting to use the maximum travel on the rear fork.

Should I be concerned? Add air to my rear fork (which the LBS said had just a tad less than the recommended sag)? Take air out of my Pike? It is just part of braking in one or both components? (If it helps explain my cluelessness, this is my first FS bike.)


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

You've got too much pressure in the Pike.


----------



## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Is there am easy way to check and fill the oil levels?


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

peteer01 said:


> Should I be concerned? Add air to my rear fork (which the LBS said had just a tad less than the recommended sag)? Take air out of my Pike? It is just part of braking in one or both components? (If it helps explain my cluelessness, this is my first FS bike.)


Based on what you describe, it's nearly impossible to give good advice. We do not know what aggressive riding on a less aggressive trail is to you. It's hard to tell if your LBS set up sag in the right way and what their vision on 'recommended sag' is.

Please don't rely on your LBS, you have to be able to do that yourself. If you do not have a shock pump, get one. I'd recommend reading a bit on suspension setup. The internet has lots of it. In short: 25-30% is a good guideline for sag, but it's important to measure it in the 'attack' position.

As for the rear: With my bike setup properly, I can get the O-ring to be near full travel with a good push through my feet with all of my weight. I would not be concerned because of that. You have a few mm's left to bottom out by the looks of it. Due to the nature of an air shock, it takes progressively more force to use those. Even if you do hit max travel every once in a while, that will not ruin the shock. There is a bottom out bumper in there; just make sure it does not happen on anything but the hardest hits.

Get your cluenessless out of the way and you'll feel better! It's more suspension setup than Pike related, so I think there are better places than this topic to ask around.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I was in the same boat. Fork didn't seem like it was doing much for small bumps and I could barely hang on during this nice 15 minute downhill that is nothing but large rocks.

Checked my sag and it was only 10%. Lowered it right between 25 and 30% and holy crap, totally different feel, who knew?

I think I was stuck with this mentality that bottom out is bad and lower pressures lead to more bottom-outs. This isn't really true any more, as the dampers are designed with pretty substantial bottom-out bumpers and very progressive ramp-up.


----------



## peteer01 (Apr 26, 2005)

JeroenK said:


> It's hard to tell if your LBS set up sag in the right way and what their vision on 'recommended sag' is.
> 
> Please don't rely on your LBS, you have to be able to do that yourself. If you do not have a shock pump, get one. I'd recommend reading a bit on suspension setup. The internet has lots of it. In short: 25-30% is a good guideline for sag, but it's important to measure it in the 'attack' position.


The LBS set up my rear (it's my first FS bike), but I set up the Pike myself. They checked the sag on the front and said it looked good, but I actually inflated that with my Manitou pump. Before I hit the trails, I deflated, and then reinflated the Pike with the RockShox pump it came with, and put in just a bit under 100 psi based on the 95-105 recommended range.

Not sure if it was a pump gauge issue, but Sunday's ride used a bit more travel. I thought it felt great on Saturday, so while I didn't notice a major difference in ride quality, I did use a bit more travel.


Jayem said:


> You've got too much pressure in the Pike.


I think that was the issue.



JeroenK said:


> Get your cluenessless out of the way and you'll feel better! It's more suspension setup than Pike related, so I think there are better places than this topic to ask around.


Working on it!:thumbsup:

In this case I think it was just using the Manitou shock pump and ending up with more pressure than the gauge indicated. The LBS saying it looked good, combined with a lack of confidence regarding rear shocks had me concerned, but I think I'm good now.


----------



## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Is there am easy way to check and fill the oil levels?


----------



## Luis M. (Jun 9, 2013)

Peter play around with your suspension set up , and you will learn what feels best for each terrain. I add or take out some air depending on where I'm riding. I like fiddling with the bike though, some don't. Try around 75 psi on that pike and see where it goes from there.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Don't slack on servicing the lowers! I ride about 40-50 miles a week, and I've had my Pike for about 10 months. I've serviced my lowers 4 times now, and one side stanchion already is showing some bushing grooving, and the black anodizing is looking thin(light color).


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Damn, I've had mine for over a year now (didn't see much use from mid nov-april) with no discoloration or any signs of that. Lubrication is usually the key though, forks that have poor lubrication systems (fox) seem to chew through bushings and seals crazy fast, whereas my old 06 marz 66 had it's black stanchions looking great for over 6 years. It seems that fox really wants to sell people on their kashima coating, trying to mask the lubrication problem more IMO. It doesn't take any crazy expensive coatings that jack the price way up to make a fork or shock last a while, just decent lubrication. The pike seems to be ok as long as you service it, like you say, it definitely runs on very minimal oil on the damper side (5ml). Makes me nervous for sure, but so far so good.


----------



## riding4fun (Mar 24, 2010)

FYI - Bike-Discount.com is listing a 2015 Pike Dual Position 26" in Black - 1st I've heard of that color change, wonder what else has changed - Shipped to USA $825


----------



## spooney (Jun 1, 2010)

Jayem said:


> Damn, I've had mine for over a year now (didn't see much use from mid nov-april) with no discoloration or any signs of that. Lubrication is usually the key though, forks that have poor lubrication systems (fox) seem to chew through bushings and seals crazy fast, whereas my old 06 marz 66 had it's black stanchions looking great for over 6 years. It seems that fox really wants to sell people on their kashima coating, trying to mask the lubrication problem more IMO. It doesn't take any crazy expensive coatings that jack the price way up to make a fork or shock last a while, just decent lubrication. The pike seems to be ok as long as you service it, like you say, it definitely runs on very minimal oil on the damper side (5ml). Makes me nervous for sure, but so far so good.


Yea the lubrication in these forks does seem real low I personally put 10ml In each side however I am aware that there is supposed to be 5ml in the damper side and 15ml in the spring side, I do this so they are lubricated equally and I have put the 15ml in the air side in the past and it blew out the wiper seal, also there is plenty of room in the damper side for more oil in my opinion. I apply plenty of Slick Honey also to the seals and would say that this is very important to an extremely smooth running fork.

Also when lubricating the air chamber don't go overboard with the lubrication ( I my case I use Slick Honey also ) as I it can migrate into the negative chamber and then the fork won't return to the correct height, don't use oil ever


----------



## Troyfan (Jun 13, 2014)

My bike came with a black dual position air pike rc. It works phenominaly. I checked the SRAM/Rockshox website today and they now sell both the RT3 and the RC in both solo and dual position air. Previously, only the RT3 was on the website as the RC was only sold oem. I believe you can get any of the forks in white or black now as well.


----------



## stamion (Apr 17, 2014)

Does anyone have problem setting the correct sag using the lower leg chart? I weigh 190lbs geared up and according to the chart i should run 80-85psi. If i do run that pressure i only get 10% sag. I have to go down as much as 50 psi to get a 25% sag. Is this normal? Done an air spring strip/cleaning/rebuild and i dont think it is a blocked dimple thing. Also though i get most of the travel at 50 psi, it feels a little harsh on small bumps. LSC at 4 from full open. Any thoughts on that? (pike Solo Air 150mm)


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

stamion said:


> Does anyone have problem setting the correct sag using the lower leg chart? I weigh 190lbs geared up and according to the chart i should run 80-85psi. If i do run that pressure i only get 10% sag. I have to go down as much as 50 psi to get a 25% sag. Is this normal? Done an air spring strip/cleaning/rebuild and i dont think it is a blocked dimple thing. Also though i get most of the travel at 50 psi, it feels a little harsh on small bumps. LSC at 4 from full open. Any thoughts on that? (pike Solo Air 150mm)


Forget the chart and the PSI. Use whatever pressure gets you the right amount of sag. End of story.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Forget the chart and the PSI. Use whatever pressure gets you the right amount of sag. End of story.


So polite! 
Not like we haven't beaten that dead horse into a bloody pulp. If only there was a feature to let one do a key word search...


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Caveat on setting psi by sag....


For years, we'd set long travel forks to at least 30% sag. I have 2 Pikes, one 150mm, on 140mm, and neither behaved well with that much sag. I've found 20% max sag works much better on the Pike than traditional larger sag numbers.


----------



## Muttonchops (Jul 16, 2004)

FYI...buddy of mine got a new Devinci Troy with the Pike and similar scenario. In fact we removed ALL air and it was still super stiff. Took it back to the shop and blow me down if there wasnt a metal shaving inside the lowers. I didnt get the full explanation...but i heard it was a 7in metal shaving. I am guessing it must have been blocking something a port or something

IMO - If you find settings like this off the charts...definitely get someone to look at it because wierd sh1t happens


----------



## stamion (Apr 17, 2014)

@ Muttonchops that's what i thought. I have always been setting sag not giving much attention to the charts. But i think 30 psi is way too much off chart. Plus i get a harsh feeling on small bumps on a fork that is supposed to be extra plush. The Fox Talas the Pike is replacing was substantially more plush and that is what made me have second thoughts..


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Miker J said:


> Caveat on setting psi by sag....
> 
> For years, we'd set long travel forks to at least 30% sag. I have 2 Pikes, one 150mm, on 140mm, and neither behaved well with that much sag. I've found 20% max sag works much better on the Pike than traditional larger sag numbers.


^^ What he said. Lower sag and less tokens = better ride for the Pike.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Miker J said:


> Caveat on setting psi by sag....
> 
> For years, we'd set long travel forks to at least 30% sag. I have 2 Pikes, one 150mm, on 140mm, and neither behaved well with that much sag. I've found 20% max sag works much better on the Pike than traditional larger sag numbers.


That's not a caveat on setting PSI by sag, that's just due to the % of sag you were setting. If 30% happened to work well for this air spring, you'd still be setting it by sag. It's an air fork, and as such, it doesn't quite run the same as a coil and has a flatter mid-stroke progression, but luckily the fork has (at least on some models) % marks so you can set 10, 20, 30% or anything in between. Whether you are setting 5% of 35% sag, you'd still be setting your PSI based on your sag.

I too find that an air fork runs best with more like 20% sag.

Really, setting the PSI by sag is the ONLY way you can do it, due to variations of how much weight is on the fork, head tube angle, how aggressive the rider is, etc. Otherwise you'd have to make separate PSI charts for every single bike fitted with the fork...


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Jayem said:


> That's not a caveat on setting PSI by sag, that's just due to the % of sag you were setting. If 30% happened to work well for this air spring, you'd still be setting it by sag. It's an air fork, and as such, it doesn't quite run the same as a coil and has a flatter mid-stroke progression, but luckily the fork has (at least on some models) % marks so you can set 10, 20, 30% or anything in between. Whether you are setting 5% of 35% sag, you'd still be setting your PSI based on your sag.
> 
> I too find that an air fork runs best with more like 20% sag.
> 
> Really, setting the PSI by sag is the ONLY way you can do it, due to variations of how much weight is on the fork, head tube angle, how aggressive the rider is, etc. Otherwise you'd have to make separate PSI charts for every single bike fitted with the fork...


Yeah.... I didn't really phrase that correctly.

Should have said "caveat on setting sag by traditional numbers... that is, 30% or more on longer travel shocks."


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Most of u guys saying that pike seems not durable or last longer. 

How often do u have to service the fork?


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Jayem said:


> I too find that an air fork runs best with more like 20% sag.


Upping the pressure to get to 20% helped to decrease the amount of top-out clunk I was getting at 30%. The fork feels pretty good, but I have yet to get within 10mm of full travel. Running higher sag gives me more clunk, though I use more travel, too.

Any suggestions? Running a 29" 160mm with no tokens.


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

I have made large changes to my fork settings since starting by setting sag when brand new. It's a 150 x 26 solo air. I was reading this thread after a week off the bike and away from home and riding and started to see comments about setting a sag of 20, rather than 25-30%, as well as people using higher fork pressures to get better balance front to back. Some of the comments suggested there was better small bump compliance with higher fork pressures, which sounded like bulls#!t. 

Anyway, I reset the sag with the help of #1 son. First I set all damping to 0. I tried to get an aggressive riding position and bounced up and down a bit before settling and pushing the o-rings into position. After increasing the pressure (again) from 61-71lbs, the sag went from 27.5-32%! I tried again after reducing the shock from 168-155 and got much the same result at the fork, so either the original sag must have been affected by stiction out of the box, or sag means less than I thought on the Pike. 

I gave it just under halfway low speed compression damping, much the same as at lower pressures. On the rebound damping I thought there were only 10 clicks, but there are 20 and I had it on 3 from open. Now it is on 9. It's a different ride. So much better and it really is obviously better at small bump compliance. I got full travel apparently (didn't feel it) and it was much better under brakes. It felt right there all the time rather than just at speed today, so I'm wondering if I can go higher again with the pressure. The weight chart says I can go another 15-120lbs!


----------



## peteer01 (Apr 26, 2005)

What is the best YouTube video out there right now for servicing the Pike? Or if a good one doesn't exist, does anyone feel up to the challenge of making a good video the next time they service theirs?


----------



## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

peteer01 said:


> What is the best YouTube video out there right now for servicing the Pike? Or if a good one doesn't exist, does anyone feel up to the challenge of making a good video the next time they service theirs?


the only aspect that is substantially different from the Lyrik/Revelation/other recent RS forks is servicing the damper. if all you're trying to do is drop the lowers and/or service the air spring, any of the old videos will give you a pretty good idea of what you're getting into. then just follow the directions in the pike service manual.


----------



## LeoDogg (Jul 22, 2014)

I think my 2014 Pike has the knocking sounds associated with bad bushings folks were talking about on pg 11 of this thread. Anyone care to take a look and give me their 2 cents? It only knocks when the charger damper is in full open position. Its fine in "pedal" and the middle position, as you can see in the video. 
RS Pike knocking sound? - YouTube


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

LeoDogg said:


> I think my 2014 Pike has the knocking sounds associated with bad bushings folks were talking about on pg 11 of this thread. Anyone care to take a look and give me their 2 cents? It only knocks when the charger damper is in full open position. Its fine in "pedal" and the middle position, as you can see in the video.
> RS Pike knocking sound? - YouTube


Thats not bushes, that the charger damper having dropped all it oil into the lower and offering no rebound damping at all IMHO.


----------



## LeoDogg (Jul 22, 2014)

Rick Draper said:


> Thats not bushes, that the charger damper having dropped all it oil into the lower and offering no rebound damping at all IMHO.


Well, that would explain the pink suspension fluid that drained out when I dropped the lowers to replace the oil...


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

LeoDogg said:


> Well, that would explain the pink suspension fluid that drained out when I dropped the lowers to replace the oil...


Yep thats dropped the fluid, mine did the same and I know of a fair few others that have done it as well.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Anyone else find the Trail setting too heavily damped to be useful for routine riding?


----------



## LeoDogg (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks Rick.
Is this a warranty fix, or can I do something? 
Check the charger damper for cracks and refill with 3 wt if its good?


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

kragu said:


> Upping the pressure to get to 20% helped to decrease the amount of top-out clunk I was getting at 30%. The fork feels pretty good, but I have yet to get within 10mm of full travel. Running higher sag gives me more clunk, though I use more travel, too.
> 
> Any suggestions? Running a 29" 160mm with no tokens.


I'm the other way. Even with only 20% sag I very often get full travel. On both of my pike forks, even with additional tokens, I go through travel on larger hits relatively easily. Similarly, on my rear shocks, even with air spacers installed, I find on larger hits I go through travel too easily. I'm finding this to be a common theme on all of the newer forks and rear shocks I've used in the last 2 to 3 years. Fortunately I rarely feel harsh bottom out, so I've just learned to live with it.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Miker J said:


> Anyone else find the Trail setting too heavily damped to be useful for routine riding?


Yup but it's perfect for jumps and FR use!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## hungrytiger (Apr 25, 2011)

LeoDogg said:


> Thanks Rick.
> Is this a warranty fix, or can I do something?
> Check the charger damper for cracks and refill with 3 wt if its good?


Warranty it, even if you can fix it yourself. Not acceptable for a $1000 fork, SRAM will improve the design through necessity if they get enough returns.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

240lbs ready to ride on Banshee Prime. Set sag, and dialed lsc and rebound to middle settings. I def blow through travel too easy, and popped another token in. Interesting that my 150mm RTC3 Single came with one installed and two in da bag.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

jonshonda said:


> 240lbs ready to ride on Banshee Prime. Set sag, and dialed lsc and rebound to middle settings. I def blow through travel too easy, and popped another token in. Interesting that my 150mm RTC3 Single came with one installed and two in da bag.


What's your sag?


----------



## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

My 150 mm RCT3 SA 29er also came with only one token in. Running it with ~25% sag on my SB95, same with shock (DBAir). I'm ~ 230 RTR now and this comes out to ~80 psi in the fork and ~145 psi in the shock.


----------



## riding4fun (Mar 24, 2010)

so how do you like it now?


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

jonshonda said:


> 240lbs ready to ride on Banshee Prime. Set sag, and dialed lsc and rebound to middle settings. I def blow through travel too easy, and popped another token in. Interesting that my 150mm RTC3 Single came with one installed and two in da bag.


The air chamber is the same for ALL models SO... as you reduce travel, the need increases. 160 = 0 tokens, 150 = 1 token, 140 = 2 tokens and you can add a token to those numbers IF you're over 200 lbs so your finding is hardly surprising. This is also why I find it frustrating that peeps keep harping on the tokens thing giving advice to someone with completely different needs.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

riding4fun said:


> so how do you like it now?


Me?

Crap, I love the bike and the suspension setup.

I run the fork descend + 3 clicks compression damping and the DBAir setup to balance (lightly damped to allow the bike to be plush when I want it, yet stable pedalling and climbing). The combination feels super-good handling drops and landing jumps, I just need more skilz for jump takeoffs.

Currently running 2.35" Ikon 3c tires. They get a little sketchy on DH when over 15-20 mph (weenie little knobs and low weight compared to my previous tires) but crap the bike "hauls" ... and the suspension design and setup works so very well with the tires to roll and climb well.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

I've been playing around with a 160x29 Pike RC on an Enduro 29 Comp a bit.

The BIGGEST thing I notice about this fork is that the rebound clicker crossover to compression on the real low-speed and breakaway stuff is incredibly apparent. A few clicks of rebound changes the compression valving around drastically.

So far, running about 6-9 clicks in on rebound, 4 clicks in on compression, and around 85psi. I assume there is one token installed.

From what I'm reading there's a pre-loaded check on the midvalve with a bunch of extra force on it. Stands to reason that the rebound bleed is making a big difference before this starts to open. I'm thinking a small OD bleed shim between the check plate and the piston could improve the overall feel, and make the crossover less pronounced.

Rod diameter looks tiny on this fork, so that explains why the compression adjuster has a much smaller effect until it gets into the slower half of its range.

Sounds like people are finding little or no grease in the stanchion seals and the air piston seal? Probably will butter it up soon here just to be thorough.


----------



## pablobell (Oct 18, 2013)

Gman086 said:


> The air chamber is the same for ALL models SO... as you reduce travel, the need increases. 160 = 0 tokens, 150 = 1 token, 140 = 2 tokens and you can add a token to those numbers IF you're over 200 lbs so your finding is hardly surprising. This is also why I find it frustrating that peeps keep harping on the tokens thing giving advice to someone with completely different needs.
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


Hi G MAN

I reduced my 27.5 160mm down to 140mm. There was plenty of oil and grease in the right places (for reference).

Anyway, the Service Manual recommended 1 token for 140mm so that's what I have installed. I weigh about 220 geared up, and I'm bottoming out a lot less than I did with my old 140mm 32 Fox CTD Talas.

The fork is great as is, so should I experiment with more tokens?


----------



## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

I reduced my 27.5 150 pike down to 140 also. I only weigh about 150 geared up. And I also did as the manual segregated and put in one token. 
I did try two tokens last week and went out for one ride. Just did not feel right to me even taking air out during the ride. Felt just to stiff!
So went back to the one token and my old settings of about 60psi 6 clicks rebound and 4 LSC. 
This feels fine for me right now, but I am quite new to this and only has a FS for 6 months now and only been riding a year before that. But I am lucky enough to go out at least twice a week. So time to play with settings in different situations.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

pablobell said:


> Hi G MAN
> 
> I reduced my 27.5 160mm down to 140mm. There was plenty of oil and grease in the right places (for reference).
> 
> ...


Nope! A lot has to do with riding style too. If the fork is working for you and not bottoming then leave her be!

Cheers,

G


----------



## svalgis (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm running the OEM RC in 150mm 26" guise since a few months back. After hunting a clicking noise coming from the front end of the bike for a while without success I remembered reading about a common problem with the CSU and a way to isolate it, so I put the bike upside down, wheel out and pulled the fork legs in opposite direction and sure enough.

It's like there's two stages; I pull in one direction (i.e. left leg towards me, right leg away from me) which generates the sound, but just once, then it's silent until I pull them in the other directions which gives the same noise again, and so on.

Definitely CSU then? Definitely nothing to do but send it back? Is it potentially dangerous or just an annoyance, i.e. would I be stupid to just leave it be until the end of the season?


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

svalgis said:


> I'm running the OEM RC in 150mm 26" guise since a few months back. After hunting a clicking noise coming from the front end of the bike for a while without success I remembered reading about a common problem with the CSU and a way to isolate it, so I put the bike upside down, wheel out and pulled the fork legs in opposite direction and sure enough.
> 
> It's like there's two stages; I pull in one direction (i.e. left leg towards me, right leg away from me) which generates the sound, but just once, then it's silent until I pull them in the other directions which gives the same noise again, and so on.
> 
> Definitely CSU then? Definitely nothing to do but send it back? Is it potentially dangerous or just an annoyance, i.e. would I be stupid to just leave it be until the end of the season?


When my CSU went bad, my shop got one coming and I con't to ride mine until it showed. Maybe yours can do the same?

BTW, not that it matters, but have you isolated which leg...just grab one and wiggle, then the other? May help you look like you know what you're doing when you explain things to your shop.


----------



## svalgis (Mar 5, 2012)

I bought mine online so I presume I will have to send it back (yeah I know, should've bought it locally and so on). I was hoping to just live with the noise for now and contact the dealer for warranty at the end of the season, but only if it's not going to kill me obviously.

Good call on isolating it further, I'll try that. It's not likely to be caused by anything else then?


----------



## macduff (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm about 7hrs on my Pile 160 RCT3s bought earlier this year and noticed they were feeling a little harsh on last ride so checked air pressure, which a little low and the fork wasn't fully extending last 5mm still in the fork leg, let the air out pulled up to full extention in case negative chamber needed to equalise and now it wont hold air pressure :?... Love the fork when it working but not that impressed at its reliablilty (my 2 previous RS air forks lyric/boxer wc were great). Hopeing its an easy fix/seal swap as I don't want the down time to send it back for warranty.


----------



## dodekns (Jul 28, 2014)

Is there a difference in working/tenderness/ fluency between solo and dual version?


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

dodekns said:


> Is there a difference in working/tenderness/ fluency between solo and dual version?


Thinking the same thing myself. I'm in the market for a new pike, dual position would be nice, but not a necessity. I know fox forks were not as compliant with the tallus cartridge, so pike the same?


----------



## Troyfan (Jun 13, 2014)

I am not the same calibre of rider as say Steve Smith but my dual position air has been very reliable and is very supple. Have ridden a solo air but a very short ride. Again, I am not a professional rider but could not tell the difference. In the lower position, it absorbes bumps well. When I have the fork in this position it is for climbing and thus at slow speed, so difficult to tell if there is a lot of difference in suppleness, rebound, etc. My advice would be that if you think the dual position would be an asset to your riding and you will use the feature regularly, go for it.


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

thanks, that helps. I'd like a 650b model for, temporarily, 26" wheels, might need the dual for climbing until the larger wheels.


----------



## riding4fun (Mar 24, 2010)

All,
RC vs. RCT in Dual Air Model - I'm fairly certain I can get a RC 160mm Dual 26". 
From what I understand I only loose the simple 3 settings dial vs. the loss of any other advantages, correct? Secondly does the low compression adjust work throughout the range on the RC vs. just in open mode like on the RCT? 

posting in RC vs. RCT too.


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

riding4fun said:


> All,
> From what I understand I only loose the simple 3 settings dial vs. the loss of any other advantages, correct? Secondly does the low compression adjust work throughout the range on the RC vs. just in open mode like on the RCT?
> 
> posting in RC vs. RCT too.


Yes and yes. Both is correct.

The RC feels like the old Motion Control knob (if you ever used such a fork) except that the "lockout" is not so strong. You have like ~12 clicks. After 5 clicks I feel (and hear in the damper) difference in riding descents. 10-12 clicks is very strong compression but not near any lockout mode. The fork moves but not so easily, especially when pedaling seated.

My friends who ride RCT3 never use anything other than Open mode with fixed low speed compression (when I say fixed, I mean they set it up and never look back). Their honest opinion is that they would rather have RC damper than RCT3. Cheaper and have all the functions they need. On the RCT3 the Trail mode is firmer than RC's 12th click, and lockout is really not needed on a 150+mm for IMHO.

But also, I must say that I have seen some differences in different RC Pike forks, regarding the max. compression feeling. Some were firmer (like mine), some were little softer when full compression was on.


----------



## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

Dual cannot use bottomless tokens.


riding4fun said:


> All,
> RC vs. RCT in Dual Air Model - I'm fairly certain I can get a RC 160mm Dual 26".
> From what I understand I only loose the simple 3 settings dial vs. the loss of any other advantages, correct? Secondly does the low compression adjust work throughout the range on the RC vs. just in open mode like on the RCT?
> 
> posting in RC vs. RCT too.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Hey, need you guys' input. I'm going to a Fox 36, primarily for the 20mm axle, and will be putting up my Pike RTC3 up for sale. What kind of $$ have you guys been seeing for a 150 29er on the used market?


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Pau11y said:


> What kind of $$ have you guys been seeing for a 150 29er on the used market?


Knowing what you can get them for new, and being a cheap a$$....I will say bout' tree-fiddy!!

I added a token and set my sag again, and I am loving this fork more and more. I really need to find my some techy stuff so I can test out how this thing does at low speeds when I have to pop the front tire up.


----------



## riding4fun (Mar 24, 2010)

thanks,
I was hoping a RC Dual Position Pike was obtainable, but now I have my doubts. 
Not sure I can totally give up the Dual Position so I guess I'm RCT3 bound. 

Any way coming from a Fox 32 Evo, so it's got to better.


----------



## macduff (Sep 4, 2012)

macduff said:


> I'm about 7hrs on my Pile 160 RCT3s bought earlier this year and noticed they were feeling a little harsh on last ride so checked air pressure, which a little low and the fork wasn't fully extending last 5mm still in the fork leg, let the air out pulled up to full extention in case negative chamber needed to equalise and now it wont hold air pressure :?... Love the fork when it working but not that impressed at its reliablilty (my 2 previous RS air forks lyric/boxer wc were great). Hopeing its an easy fix/seal swap as I don't want the down time to send it back for warranty.


Just a quick update I started to strip these down and got as far as removing the air spring fork cap and noticed it had ZERO grease on the top o-ring and was no where near tight in the fork leg. So a quick grease of the o-ring and refit back with appropriate tightness and woo hoo fork is back to working (static test at least). The lack of grease says I need to pull the full air spring (and possibly charge damper) and grease up the seals as it looks like this shipped without suitable assembly by the factory :/


----------



## digitalsoul (Feb 17, 2004)

Sorry if this was asked earlier, but does anyone know what is needed to convert the 26 inch pike to a 27.5 inch? Also, what is needed to up the travel from 150 mm to 160 mm?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

digitalsoul said:


> Sorry if this was asked earlier, but does anyone know what is needed to convert the 26 inch pike to a 27.5 inch? Also, what is needed to up the travel from 150 mm to 160 mm?


Lowers, CSU, damper, and airspring. So a whole new fork.


----------



## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Ive had my pike 140mm 29er for a few months now, as much as i love it it still feels a little too harsh and chattery over the rough rooty stuff. 

Im a lightweight rider at around 75kg kitted out. Im guessing the fork has 2 tokens pre fitted? 

Would i benefit from losing a token at the weight i am and would this get rid of some of the harsh feeling?

Im running around 30% sag. Ive never bottomed the fork as of yet but saying that ive not really rode anything big.

Can anyone recommend some base settings to try? and would i be better losing a token?

Many thanks


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

J273 said:


> Ive had my pike 140mm 29er for a few months now, as much as i love it it still feels a little too harsh and chattery over the rough rooty stuff.
> 
> Im a lightweight rider at around 75kg kitted out. Im guessing the fork has 2 tokens pre fitted?
> 
> ...


I'd take all the tokens out and run 20% sag and tune from there. Generally, lighter riders will benefit from more linear spring curves.


----------



## digitalsoul (Feb 17, 2004)

Rick Draper said:


> Lowers, CSU, damper, and airspring. So a whole new fork.


Thanks for the info, that is what I was afraid of.


----------



## abevern (Apr 21, 2009)

digitalsoul said:


> Sorry if this was asked earlier, but does anyone know what is needed to convert the 26 inch pike to a 27.5 inch? Also, what is needed to up the travel from 150 mm to 160 mm?


Do your research using part numbers. I would've thought lowers only and the appropriate airspring to get desired travel.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

abevern said:


> Do your research using part numbers. I would've thought lowers only and the appropriate airspring to get desired travel.


You would be wrong then.


----------



## riding4fun (Mar 24, 2010)

check right around page 28


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

J273 said:


> Ive had my pike 140mm 29er for a few months now, as much as i love it it still feels a little too harsh and chattery over the rough rooty stuff.
> 
> Im a lightweight rider at around 75kg kitted out. Im guessing the fork has 2 tokens pre fitted? Would i benefit from losing a token at the weight i am and would this get rid of some of the harsh feeling?
> 
> ...


I am your weight kitted up and have the same fork. Yes, there are 2 tokens pre-installed.

I did exactly what Hillharman advises, but I could never find a setup that I was happy with. It still felt harsh, which could be due to the increased spring rate in the first part of travel. More volume means more pressure to achieve the same sag.

I went back to 2 tokens and 25% sag, while taking care to set rebound on the speedy side of the scale. Rebound speed is important to prevent harshness: often this is due to the fork packing up. This is the sweet spot for me. It is plush in the first part of travel, with more than enough reserve for all but the biggest hits.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

J273 said:


> Ive had my pike 140mm 29er for a few months now, as much as i love it it still feels a little too harsh and chattery over the rough rooty stuff.
> 
> Im a lightweight rider at around 75kg kitted out. Im guessing the fork has 2 tokens pre fitted?
> 
> ...


Go the other way. Add in another token...I think all 29ers can take at least 3 tokens (I ran 3 in my 150)...4 for the 160mm ones IIRC. Anyway, do this and reset your sag. You *should* notice your initial pressure around 5 PSI lower. Once that's set, do as JeroenK said, back your rebound off. I ran only like 3 clicks...pretty close to wide open. This thinking goes pretty much against what everyone has been suggesting on this thread, so brace for the hate that's about to come. Just try it and post back your result.

Another thing I do to check ramp up. Pull the front brake while jumping on the bar (just standing on the side of the bike). If you can get over 50%, but under 60% of the travel, you're in the ball park on ramp up. At this point, you start tweaking w/ the compression setting. Since the RTC3 doesn't have a high speed, you may need to take the fork from open to trail when riding low speed techy steep downs where you're leaning into your front brake a lot. But on a fork w/ HSC adjuster like the Fox RC2, you'd just start ramping up your HSC.


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

Saddly I think my dual position Pike is loosing air, or is it normal to loose ~30 psi in a week due to altitude difference (around 3000 feet) ? I commute weekly with my bike so It happened more than twice now so it's no coincidence. 

Secondly, I bought it online from a different country from more than 1000 miles from me (Germany to Romania) so if I try to opened it by myself, are there any warranty seals inside? 
Since the whole problem could just be an broken / dry seal that could be fix in minutes.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

J273 said:


> Ive had my pike 140mm 29er for a few months now, as much as i love it it still feels a little too harsh and chattery over the rough rooty stuff.
> 
> Im a lightweight rider at around 75kg kitted out. Im guessing the fork has 2 tokens pre fitted?
> 
> ...


Stick with the 2 tokens that version of the Pike fork came with. Go UP in air pressure (20% is the golden standard) and faster on rebound (0nly 4 clciks in) = DIALED!
What happens with a lot of sag is the Pike blows thru all the travel too easily and then ramps up harshly. So you need to keep the Pike higher in it's travel and adjust faster rebound for quicker recovery. Goes against conventional thinking but it works, trust me. Just did the most technical trail in the Pacific NW today and the Pike KILLED it!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Bogdan_mb said:


> Saddly I think my dual position Pike is loosing air, or is it normal to loose ~30 psi in a week due to altitude difference (around 3000 feet) ? I commute weekly with my bike so It happened more than twice now so it's no coincidence.
> 
> Secondly, I bought it online from a different country from more than 1000 miles from me (Germany to Romania) so if I try to opened it by myself, are there any warranty seals inside?
> Since the whole problem could just be an broken / dry seal that could be fix in minutes.


Nope, I've only added air once this summer, when I reset it after doing an oil-bath change. I can't say it loses any noticeable pressure over the span of a few months.


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

I thought so, my brother has a dual position Lyrik and under the same conditions he hasn't had any issues. 

It only bothers me that sending it back to the seller it will me off the bike for a while


----------



## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

Bogdan_mb said:


> I thought so, my brother has a dual position Lyrik and under the same conditions he hasn't had any issues.
> 
> It only bothers me that sending it back to the seller it will me off the bike for a while


Have you checked the simple stuff like valve cores?


----------



## macduff (Sep 4, 2012)

Bogdan_mb said:


> Saddly I think my dual position Pike is loosing air, or is it normal to loose ~30 psi in a week due to altitude difference (around 3000 feet) ? I commute weekly with my bike so It happened more than twice now so it's no coincidence.
> 
> Secondly, I bought it online from a different country from more than 1000 miles from me (Germany to Romania) so if I try to opened it by myself, are there any warranty seals inside?
> Since the whole problem could just be an broken / dry seal that could be fix in minutes.


If it was bought new and has never been serviced its likely it needs the air spring seals greasing. I don't think these are properly greased from new . As per my recent posts my solo air wasn't holding pressure and a simple topcap seal regrease "fixed" that though I need to strip and do the rest of the air spring just in case its the same (will be no doubt)


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

petercarm said:


> Have you checked the simple stuff like valve cores?


On a simple eye inspection , the air valve looks fine. I doubt it would leak there , since it never goes under 50-60 psi (I keep it inflated at 95 psi)



macduff said:


> If it was bought new and has never been serviced its likely it needs the air spring seals greasing. I don't think these are properly greased from new . As per my recent posts my solo air wasn't holding pressure and a simple topcap seal regrease "fixed" that though I need to strip and do the rest of the air spring just in case its the same (will be no doubt)


It was new , and I suspect that could be the cause, a slight leek due to low greasing from factory.

So , will I void any warranty if I open the air cap on the spring side to check that ?


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

You won't void any warranties until you mess something up. Even then, you paid for the fork and Rockshox would just charge you for parts you messed up versus stuff that was your fault. Don't sweat the warranty stuff so much. Just get the thing fixed. I'm pretty mechanically inclinded by my Pike Dual Air will be sent to a service center for its first tear-down.


----------



## Iamrockandroll13 (Feb 10, 2013)

All of RockShox service manuals are available on their website if you want to tear down your fork and rebuild it. Provided you have the proper tools, it's do-able and you shouldn't void your warranty. That said, fork rebuilds are an involved process, so if you aren't mechanically inclined it's probably best to take it to a pro to have it done.


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

It's not a problem of my mechanical capabilities (I hope so) since I've teared apart my previous fork, a RS Sektor, and worked just fine, only that it was a coil spring. 

I only worried that there are some warranty seals (like paint marks on the screws) in case I find a serious problem with the air shaft that can only be replaced under warranty and not on my own cost. 

Thanks all for convince me to proceed with caution


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Bogdan_mb said:


> On a simple eye inspection , the air valve looks fine.


My marzocchi would sometimes leak there. A way to fix it was to over-pressurize the fork, then let it back down to my intended pressure. The spring and other bits sometimes create friction and don't quite "seal" well unless I did this. Maybe splashing some oil on it may help too.


----------



## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

JeroenK said:


> I am your weight kitted up and have the same fork. Yes, there are 2 tokens pre-installed.
> 
> I did exactly what Hillharman advises, but I could never find a setup that I was happy with. It still felt harsh, which could be due to the increased spring rate in the first part of travel. More volume means more pressure to achieve the same sag.
> 
> I went back to 2 tokens and 25% sag, while taking care to set rebound on the speedy side of the scale. Rebound speed is important to prevent harshness: often this is due to the fork packing up. This is the sweet spot for me. It is plush in the first part of travel, with more than enough reserve for all but the biggest hits.


Ok thanks ill try this - I currently running one token but its still a little too harsh.

What are you running rebound from full slow?



> Stick with the 2 tokens that version of the Pike fork came with. Go UP in air pressure (20% is the golden standard) and faster on rebound (0nly 4 clciks in) = DIALED!
> What happens with a lot of sag is the Pike blows thru all the travel too easily and then ramps up harshly. So you need to keep the Pike higher in it's travel and adjust faster rebound for quicker recovery. Goes against conventional thinking but it works, trust me. Just did the most technical trail in the Pacific NW today and the Pike KILLED it!
> 
> Have FUN!
> ...


Thanks - How much sag do you run G-MAN? and when you say 4 clicks in do you mean from full slow?

Cheers


----------



## capoz77 (Sep 14, 2006)

Advised PSI for my weight 75-85 = 15% sag.

Dropped to 50 PSI = 20% sag. Compression 1 click from fully open and rebound x4 clicks from turtle.

Fork has gone from lock out stiff, to super plush, now better than my trusty 426 Coil Pike!

Stunning fork, and don't even bother with the "lockout" as climbs with finesse..

150 RC solo air...


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

J273 said:


> Ok thanks ill try this - I currently running one token but its still a little too harsh.
> 
> What are you running rebound from full slow?


It's easier for me to count clicks from fastest ;-). This also fits the advice to rule out harshness from fork pack-up due to too slow rebound: Start tuning from the fastest setting until it's just right, instead of backing it off from the slowest setting.

I am running 5 clicks from fastest / 2 tokens / appr. 25% sag. In the parking lot, when I push on the bars and let go, it rebounds quite quickly, making the front wheel bounce off the ground just a tiny bit. Once my weight is on the front wheel, fork travel is very controlled.

Be aware of that different riding styles and trails need different rebound speed settings. If your trails have a of lot big compressions and little small bumps, you might want to set rebound a lot slower. I know I do when doing jumps in a bike park.


----------



## capoz77 (Sep 14, 2006)

I wanted to adjust my PSI yesterday and fox shock wouldn't let much out with button, so pressed in the valve with allen key, and emptied the entire fork in 10 seconds to 0 PSi? is this normal as only a small air can??


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

capoz77 said:


> I wanted to adjust my PSI yesterday and fox shock wouldn't let much out with button, so pressed in the valve with allen key, and emptied the entire fork in 10 seconds to 0 PSi? is this normal as only a small air can??


Sure. That's what you'd expect. What does this have to do with Pike 2014?


----------



## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

JeroenK said:


> It's easier for me to count clicks from fastest ;-). This also fits the advice to rule out harshness from fork pack-up due to too slow rebound: Start tuning from the fastest setting until it's just right, instead of backing it off from the slowest setting.
> 
> I am running 5 clicks from fastest / 2 tokens / appr. 25% sag. In the parking lot, when I push on the bars and let go, it rebounds quite quickly, making the front wheel bounce off the ground just a tiny bit. Once my weight is on the front wheel, fork travel is very controlled.
> 
> Be aware of that different riding styles and trails need different rebound speed settings. If your trails have a of lot big compressions and little small bumps, you might want to set rebound a lot slower. I know I do when doing jumps in a bike park.


Thanks Jeroen - Ill give these a try and go ride and see how i get on.

What low speed compression are you running with the above combo?


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

3 clicks in from fully open.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

J273 said:


> Thanks - How much sag do you run G-MAN? and when you say 4 clicks in do you mean from full slow?
> 
> Cheers


No! RS forks like fast rebound. Clicks in means clockwise so 4 clicks in from full FAST (I'm actually at 5 clicks in now to compromise for jumps and G-outs). 20% sag = MONEY!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## capoz77 (Sep 14, 2006)

JeroenK said:


> Sure. That's what you'd expect. What does this have to do with Pike 2014?


If you look at my pic above I have Pike 2014, I inflate them with a fox shock


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

capoz77 said:


> If you look at my pic above I have Pike 2014, I inflate them with a fox shock


I guess you mean shock _pump_. The word 'shock' is used for the rear shock absorber on a mountainbike. Also, 'air can' is a rear shock term, which added to my confusion.

Does not matter much though: if you press the valve the fork loses the majority of its air in an instant. That's normal. Allways do adjustments with the shock pump, as there is no way to do that in a controlled manner by pressing the valve.


----------



## J273 (Apr 12, 2009)

Gman086 said:


> No! RS forks like fast rebound. Clicks in means clockwise so 4 clicks in from full FAST (I'm actually at 5 clicks in now to compromise for jumps and G-outs). 20% sag = MONEY!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


Sorry i meant from full fast. Ill give this a go and see how i get on.

20% sag seems a little strange but as you guys say it stops the harshness from the fork packing down. Doubt ill ever use full travel though at my weight.

Ill give it a go and report back.

Thanks again guys.


----------



## t8500 (Mar 26, 2008)

Any of you pike users know if there is an easy fix for the small amount of play at the top of the stroke, is it negative air getting trapped somewhere ? 

Thanks


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

t8500 said:


> Any of you pike users know if there is an easy fix for the small amount of play at the top of the stroke, is it negative air getting trapped somewhere ?
> 
> Thanks


That's a feature of the solo air fork.


----------



## capoz77 (Sep 14, 2006)

JeroenK said:


> I guess you mean shock _pump_. The word 'shock' is used for the rear shock absorber on a mountainbike. Also, 'air can' is a rear shock term, which added to my confusion.
> 
> Does not matter much though: if you press the valve the fork loses the majority of its air in an instant. That's normal. Allways do adjustments with the shock pump, as there is no way to do that in a controlled manner by pressing the valve.


cheers thats exactly what I meant.


----------



## redpoint (May 23, 2014)

Gman086 said:


> No! RS forks like fast rebound. Clicks in means clockwise so 4 clicks in from full FAST (I'm actually at 5 clicks in now to compromise for jumps and G-outs). 20% sag = MONEY!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


So I'm setting-up my 2014 Pike. Starting to feel better and better. I took a long hiatus from mountain biking and I've just gotten back into it about 2 months ago. A lot has changed with respect to suspension!

I'm ~ 205 lbs RTR and ride primarily on Vancouver's North Shore. I've just set my sag to around 20% [yesterday] and have 2 tokens installed. Felt pretty good, but I'm still playing with it.

One thing that kind of confused me with respect to rebound was the turning direction. Wouldn't full fast be all the way in the clockwise direction? See picture.


----------



## pablobell (Oct 18, 2013)

Depends on which way up your clock is, full fast is all the way towards the hare. It means very little (low speed) rebound damping. Could confusingly be described as a lot of rebound.


----------



## redpoint (May 23, 2014)

pablobell said:


> Depends on which way up your clock is...


HAHA - exactly!

Whoa - kind of confusing! So in GMAN's example above he's saying go all the way to the left [i.e. clockwise if facing the sticker] and then 5 clicks counter clockwise?

In general, when people are talking about "clicks" are they talking about the bike flipped upside-down?


----------



## pablobell (Oct 18, 2013)

I think most people set rebound with the bike and sticker the normal way up, not upside down.


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Right so he is talking about setting the rebound all the way towards the Hare until it stops and then back towards the Turtle 5 clicks with the bike with the rubber side down.


----------



## redpoint (May 23, 2014)

gregnash said:


> Right so he is talking about setting the rebound all the way towards the Hare until it stops and then back towards the Turtle 5 clicks with the bike with the rubber side down.


Great - thanks. Just wanted to double check. That's currently how I've set-up the rebound.


----------



## rotaholic (Feb 17, 2013)

Just think of it as a garden tap, wind it in to slow down the water (oil) wind it out to speed up the water (oil)


----------



## capoz77 (Sep 14, 2006)

gregnash said:


> Right so he is talking about setting the rebound all the way towards the Hare until it stops and then back towards the Turtle 5 clicks with the bike with the rubber side down.


I've set mine 4 clicks from full turtle, and its plush as you like, what benefit would I get from doing 4 clicks from full hare? Would it mean the fork returns quicker from hits on the trail? Hence you'd get more trail feedback/bumpiness?


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

capoz77 said:


> I've set mine 4 clicks from full turtle, and its plush as you like, what benefit would I get from doing 4 clicks from full hare? Would it mean the fork returns quicker from hits on the trail? ?


Yes.



capoz77 said:


> Hence you'd get more trail feedback/bumpiness?


The short answer is not directly and it's related to the trail you ride. Faster rebound (direction of hare) is what you want on repetitive hits with very little time in between. If the fork has insufficient time to extend after a hit, you are left with less and less travel. The fork stays in a compressed position, unable to return to full extension. As the fork sinks in its travel, progressively more force is needed to move it further in its travel, making it feel harsh and unable to filter trail feedback/bumpiness.

Too little rebound damping makes the fork hit back at you as hard as the bump that made it move in the first place, which compromises control. The amount of rebound damping you need depends on preload (air pressure), the character of the trail you ride and personal preference. Experiment on the trail (not the parking lot) and you will learn what it feels like. When in doubt, I'd advise to tend to a speedier rebound, unless your trails are very tame and/or it's bikepark stuff made for jumping.


----------



## capoz77 (Sep 14, 2006)

Evening guys, so I experimented with the rapid rebound today. Counted 20 clicks between hare and turtle.

I've been running on 4 clicks from turtle and found the forks very good. 

So today I tried 5 clicks from hare and the forks felt very harsh, tried 9 clicks, still too harsh, 11 clicks getting better, 13 clicks sublime!

So my new trail setting is 13 clicks from hare/7 clicks from turtle.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

^^ go faster!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Either that or he's simply a heavier than me. More preload would need more rebound damping.


----------



## JoFa73 (Dec 8, 2013)

You that run only 4 or 5 clicks of rebound what psi do you run?
To me it seems like that fast of rebound wouldn't work well on heavier guys that has to run more psi.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

75 psi (170 lb riding weight). The faster you go, the faster you need your fork to rebound in order to not pack down.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm at 70 psi if I recall on this bike with the Pike at 155 riding weight. 4 clicks FFO on rebound. I do believe that heavier riders with more air pressure in the spring will need more rebound dampening to achieve the same response as lighter weight riders with less psi in the spring. 

Riding faster also does help to offset faster rebound. I like my fork to ride a bit higher dynamically so it's ready to absorb the next hit even if I'm not.


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

I got a 160mm Pike 2014. I installed 2 bottomless tokens, 11 click of rebound and 3 click of low compression psi 70. My weight is 88kgs will all my gear. 

Now my only problem is tuning the Monarch plus RT3 Debonair


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

11 clicks from where? 11 from full fast seems very damp even for. 88 kg. 70 psi seems somewhat low but you do have 160 mm travel and if your target is 28-30% sag that's probably good! If the fork's new ride it for a while then check things again after some time, they loosen up and move more easily after break-in. Test it with less rebound dampening to find the edge of smooth and harsh. I'm also 3 clicks of LSC, mostly measured on initial brake dive.


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

manitou2200 said:


> 11 clicks from where? 11 from full fast seems very damp even for. 88 kg. 70 psi seems somewhat low but you do have 160 mm travel and if your target is 28-30% sag that's probably good! If the fork's new ride it for a while then check things again after some time, they loosen up and move more easily after break-in. Test it with less rebound dampening to find the edge of smooth and harsh. I'm also 3 clicks of LSC, mostly measured on initial brake dive.


11 clicks of rebound from slow to fast. Adding 2 tokens it made my pike ride harsh in small bumps. It doesnt bottom out in big jump.

3 clicks of lsc clock wise?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Ah ok that makes more sense rebound wise. You're counting slow to fast on rebound but fast to slow on compression. I like to reference from one position to the other or at leas state the reference.


----------



## tokarsky268 (Nov 16, 2013)

Hey guys. I'm sure I'm not the only one to wonder this, but is it feasible to convert a solo air to a dual position? If so, how difficult/expensive is it? Thanks. Have a great one!


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

tokarsky268 said:


> Hey guys. I'm sure I'm not the only one to wonder this, but is it feasible to convert a solo air to a dual position? If so, how difficult/expensive is it? Thanks. Have a great one!


You need a new crown steer unit and the dual position air spring.


----------



## tokarsky268 (Nov 16, 2013)

Rick Draper said:


> You need a new crown steer unit and the dual position air spring.


Yikes. $500+ upgrade. Thanks for the info.


----------



## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

Rick Draper said:


> You need a new crown steer unit and the dual position air spring.


Or somebody going the other way.


----------



## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

Planning to service the lowers, so I have everything except 0wt oil for them. Will I be fine with 5wt rockshox oil until I get myself some 0wt or should I wait for the real deal?


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Anyone on a 130mm 27.5" pike?
How heavy are you and how many tokens do you use? Settings?


----------



## spooney (Jun 1, 2010)

jazzanova said:


> Anyone on a 130mm 27.5" pike?
> How heavy are you and how many tokens do you use? Settings?


Yea I run 2-3 tokens as I'm still messing with mine but I like quite a soft fork to start with is small bump compliant, so running 65-70 psi at the mo ment and 2 tokens but 3 tokens might be better.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

spooney said:


> Yea I run 2-3 tokens as I'm still messing with mine but I like quite a soft fork to start with is small bump compliant, so running 65-70 psi at the mo ment and 2 tokens but 3 tokens might be better.


Thank you spooney.
How heavy are you ready to ride?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm using 3 tokens in my 29 140, to give some comparison. I just added the third today after bottoming little hard on a g-out. I'm 155 riding wt. with 55 psi. I was riding hard making test runs setting up my new DB Inline and pushing a little harder than normal and hit bottom. My bike's a 12 Spider 29.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

manitou2200 said:


> I'm using 3 tokens in my 29 140, to give some comparison. I just added the third today after bottoming little hard on a g-out. I'm 155 riding wt. with 55 psi. I was riding hard making test runs setting up my new DB Inline and pushing a little harder than normal and hit bottom. My bike's a 12 Spider 29.


Yup, i ran 3 in my 29/150, 65 psi, 190 kitted up. Typically can get 90% travel, unless I'm downing super steep tech at low speeds, then i need to flip to the middle position on the RTC dial. 
But, changed the Pike out to a 36 Float. Still running a good number of tokens in it.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I have a 3 year old Spider 29 which I decided to upgrade. I bought a Pike RTC3 140 , 142x12 axle and drop outs , Roval SL Fatties and the DB Inline. The Pike replaced a Reba 140 RLT, the DB Inline replaced a Monarch RT3 which replaced the broken Fox RPL. I also have some I9 Enduro's and love them, I was an early adopter of I9 wheels and have them on a few bikes. I'll use the I9's on more shuttle service riding and ledgier terrain with some burlier tires probably Hans Dampf's The Roval's have Nobby Nics.

Here's my suspension set up at 155lbs. riding weight:

Pike RCT3 140, 3 bottomless tokens, 55 psi 30ish% sag, 
5 clicks FFO LSC 
5 clicks FFO rebound.
DB Inline 190 x 50, 120 mil travel, [email protected] large volume spacer in the can (the whole spacer), 120 psi 15 mil sag, 30%
1.5 turns HSC
6 clicks LSC
2.25 turns HSR
7 clicks LSR
She's really feeling good and I'm taking off on a week+ bike trip this Saturday! Here she is as she sits at 27.5 lbs. A very capable bike especially for the her weight!


----------



## Lunchmob (Aug 29, 2014)

Hey question for some of the heavier riders on here, I'm about 190-195 lbs and have the PSI on my Pike at around 95 and still feel like I could put more pressure in there though they chart says I shouldnt. Anyone had to add more pressure to stop feeling like you are going to bottom out? I ride everything pretty hard and just got a Bronson with the Pike. Love the bike but feel like I might be doing something wrong. Any advice would be awesome. Thanks


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Lunchmob said:


> Hey question for some of the heavier riders on here, I'm about 190-195 lbs and have the PSI on my Pike at around 95 and still feel like I could put more pressure in there though they chart says I shouldnt. Anyone had to add more pressure to stop feeling like you are going to bottom out? I ride everything pretty hard and just got a Bronson with the Pike. Love the bike but feel like I might be doing something wrong. Any advice would be awesome. Thanks


Set the pressure based on desired sag and use tokens to control bottom out.


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

manitou2200 said:


> Ah ok that makes more sense rebound wise. You're counting slow to fast on rebound but fast to slow on compression. I like to reference from one position to the other or at leas state the reference.


If I turn the know of low compression clockwise is that fast to slow?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

rave81 said:


> If I turn the know of low compression clockwise is that fast to slow?


It's more like less to more compression dampening. The fast and slow refers to rebound dampening.


----------



## thr14 (Jun 5, 2014)

Hey guys quick question. Thinking of replacing my Lyriks with the Pikes by using the hope pro 2 hub conversion kit (the Lyriks have had it and I can't get them fixed on warranty).

First question: how much stiffness do you really lose going from the 20mm Lyriks to the 15mm Pikes? It's not like I'd be doing anything too hectic, but at the same time I like the sturdiness of the lyriks and not overly fussed about the 400g weight difference (although a welcome bonus).

Second question: Any systemic issues with the forks? Obviously they got good reviews but you want them to stand the test of time which the reviews cant account for.

Third question: Main advantages/disadvantages over the Lyriks besides the axle?

Any info would be appreciated, cheers.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

thr14 said:


> First question: how much stiffness do you really lose going from the 20mm Lyriks to the 15mm Pikes? It's not like I'd be doing anything too hectic, but at the same time I like the sturdiness of the lyriks and not overly fussed about the 400g weight difference (although a welcome bonus).


It's insignificant. Having some kind of thru-axle makes a difference, but the crown, brake arch and stanchion size all have a much bigger impact, not to mention fore-aft flex is the big killer on long travel single crown forks. The tapered steerer is absolutely necessary for this kind of fork. It would have been nice if they kept 20mm as "standard", but the 15mm doesn't make a huge difference, those other design features have a much bigger impact. 20mm axle with 32mm stanchions would be a noodle comparatively.



> Second question: Any systemic issues with the forks? Obviously they got good reviews but you want them to stand the test of time which the reviews cant account for.


Nope. A few of us that have used the bottomless tokens to soften the initial stroke have found that it makes the fork a little too progressive at the end of travel when you really push the fork through rough terrain, so we've gone back and taken them out. Somewhat personal preference though and depends on which travel/wheel size you have. A few people have blown the cartridges, but relative to the number of pike forks out there I feel it's totally insignificant. This has to be the largest production high-end fork for RS ever, there are so many of these things out there on bikes right now that it's mind blowing IMO. I'm on the 2nd year with the damper and will probably send it to Avalanche as maintenance/oil change/wear items/personal tuning.

The air pressure charts are off, but just use sag like you do with any other fork and you'll be fine.

I feel the high speed performance is decent, but could be a bit better. The low-speed mid-stroke support is pretty good, but with too much air or too progressive an air spring (more tokens) it seems to spike a little more. I'm very picky about suspension so this still stands heads and shoulders over any marzocchi product I've ever used and is just a little below my custom-tuned avalanche cartridge damper I used previously. Lots of products over the years have been literally jokes in terms of how poor and crude the damping systems are. The pike is not like this.



> Third question: Main advantages/disadvantages over the Lyriks besides the axle?


If you have a lyric with mission control damping, not much. Mission control damping with it's piston and shim setup is pretty damn good. The pike may have slightly more consistent performance with the closed bladder-damper, but the lyric is a bigger chassis with more oil to dissipate heat and should be able to take more abuse than the pike, which is not a freeride/DH fork. Both are good, but based on what the lyric already has, I wouldn't consider the pike much of an upgrade, unless you are just really desperate to save weight.


----------



## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

thr14 said:


> ..Third question: Main advantages/disadvantages over the Lyriks besides the axle?...


If you don't want to spend a full day bracketing a fork/shock in one click at a time, the Pike is the perfect fork for you. I miss being able to fine tune HSC and LSC to get it just right. The Mission control dampener is really easy to re-shim, making it even more fine tuneable. i haven't taken my Pike apart yet to see what I could fiddle with. 


thr14 said:


> Second question: Any systemic issues with the forks?


Don't know if its systemic but currently my fork is in the shop. The charger dampener leaks oil into the lower leg. Hopefully they won't just overhaul it and there is a head seal or bladder update my fork missed. I would hate to have to rebuild the thing every 6 months.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

What Jayem said (his answers are typically spot on) though I will add that the rebound damping of the Pike is noticeably more consistent than that of a stock Mission Control Lyrik aiding high speed stability even more. I hadn't really noticed this until last week when I rode both back-to-back on a 15 mile DH. To me the Lyrik is still king for FR use but the Pike is a better all-around performer and quite a bit lighter. You can still get all parts for the Lyrik tho so... if money were a concern I'd rebuild the Lyrik (I've done it plenty and they're really easy to do).

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## thr14 (Jun 5, 2014)

Thanks guys, really good advice. One more question - If I went the pikes, I'd have to convert my hub down from 20mm to 15mm using the conversion kit. Does doing this compromise the integrity/stiffness of bike in any way?

Anyway, might take the lyriks to another mechanic to see if a rebuild is possible at a cost-effective price!

Cheers.


----------



## pablobell (Oct 18, 2013)

Doesn't compromise the stiffness but will mean you don't get the tiny weight saving of having an actual 15mm hub.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

thr14 said:


> Thanks guys, really good advice. One more question - If I went the pikes, I'd have to convert my hub down from 20mm to 15mm using the conversion kit. Does doing this compromise the integrity/stiffness of bike in any way?
> 
> Anyway, might take the lyriks to another mechanic to see if a rebuild is possible at a cost-effective price!
> 
> Cheers.


The 15mm axle is not noticeable in terms of stiffness IME, but it's a single crown fork, you'd get a huge boost from adding a double-crown and stanchion size, crown thickness, brake arc/fork brace, stanchion overlap, stanchion size, crown-leg interface, and steerer all have a bigger effect on a fork like this. It's minimizing the fore-aft flex on a non-dual crown long travel fork that's really the key IME, otherwise you get binding and the fork fails to absorb impacts, transmitting impact forces and making control difficult. I'd be nice if they stuck with the 20mm standard, but the 15mm doesn't seem to have a negative effect on performance.

You could sell one of your lyrics to fund one pike?


----------



## thr14 (Jun 5, 2014)

I only have one set of lyriks and according to the mechanic it wouldn't be worth repairing them! Not sure if that's true, or what I'd need in order to repair them.

Will take to a different mechanic and get another opinion. There's no chance I'd be able to reconstruct them myself!


----------



## thr14 (Jun 5, 2014)

Also, sorry to take the thread slightly off topic for a second, but if I were to go the Lyriks, what would the advantages/disadvantages of going for the Solo Airs over the Coil? Coil is only slightly heavier from what I can see.


----------



## Paris Galanis (Sep 5, 2013)

thr14 said:


> Also, sorry to take the thread slightly off topic for a second, but if I were to go the Lyriks, what would the advantages/disadvantages of going for the Solo Airs over the Coil? Coil is only slightly heavier from what I can see.


Weight and adjustability. I have Lyrik RC2DH and depending on the expected ride I move from 25 to 35% of Sag while in my coil Domain I can only make small changes by internally changing the preload spacers.


----------



## dodekns (Jul 28, 2014)

I need to change the oil in my RS PIKE 2014 160mm.Do I have to pour the exact amount of oil that is given by rs / lower leg/ or can it be a little bit more?


----------



## pablobell (Oct 18, 2013)

If you were not measuring it exactly, how would you know that you were only putting in a little bit more?


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

dodekns said:


> I need to change the oil in my RS PIKE 2014 160mm.Do I have to pour the exact amount of oil that is given by rs / lower leg/ or can it be a little bit more?


A little bit more is OK, but be careful. Instructions say 5ml if I am correct. Judging earlier posts in this topic 10ml seems OK, but any more and you run the risk of popping the seals out of the lower legs.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Pau11y said:


> Yup. A buddy has cut one in half.





Grizzy said:


> Has anyone tried to modify the tokens by making them smaller?
> 
> I'm on a 27.5, and one token is too linear - but two is too progressive (really stiff). I think 1.25-1.5 would be perfect.
> 
> I'll be cutting one in half and trying next week, but would be interested in others feedback. If anyone has a way to make them that might be a nice item to sell...


I've got a fourth token and I'm going to cut it in half and try 2.5 to see how that works for me. I've got 3 in now with my 29 140 and because it bottomed hard a couple times on g-outs with 2. I'll never need 4 full ones but 2.5 may be just right, we'll see.


----------



## MindPatterns (Apr 1, 2011)

Just curious if any of you guys with the top out issues send the fork in to SRAM? I really like the overall feel of the fork but the top out knocking on a 700 € fork drives me nuts.
Also, my bushings seem a bit loose. I can almost see the seals moving when doing the front-wheel-between-the-legs check.


----------



## ToneyRiver (Mar 21, 2009)

I just got a new Pike a couple of days ago and I'm loosing tons of air. I pumped it up to 90 psi and about 10 hours later it's at 50 psi. Is anyone else having this problem?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

MindPatterns said:


> Just curious if any of you guys with the top out issues send the fork in to SRAM? I really like the overall feel of the fork but the top out knocking on a 700 € fork drives me nuts.
> Also, my bushings seem a bit loose. I can almost see the seals moving when doing the front-wheel-between-the-legs check.





ToneyRiver said:


> I just got a new Pike a couple of days ago and I'm loosing tons of air. I pumped it up to 90 psi and about 10 hours later it's at 50 psi. Is anyone else having this problem?


It sounds like you guys need to talk to your LBS about servicing or returning your forks for warranty work or replacement. I was riding with 3 buddies today all on Pikes and we all have had zero issues with our forks.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Anyone find a good way to valve the Charger damper for a lot more LSC and LSR?

Have a DBinline on the back, and it makes the front feel like a pogo stick with both C and R set dead center and 25% sag. It dives forwards somewhat unpredictably on the steep and deep sections too. The compression adjuster doesn't really do much until the last 3 clicks or so, and neither does the rebound. Cartridge is bled well, seals are greased (which they weren't from the factory), and the air cartridge is lubed well also.

I seem to remember some pics showing this damper had a clamped mid and probably a weak basevalve?


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

My Pike is almost a year old. I live in dry northern Arizona and do a slider service every 6-8 weeks. Never needed to install bottom out tokens, as I'm pretty light on the front end. 

I swapped out seals in the air piston at the last interval, everything looked fine. And it felt better than ever. 

Over the last few days it was feeling harsher than usual, so I decided to service today. For the heck of it I pulled and lightly regreased the air piston after cleaning the inside of the uppers. 

After reassembly it took about 15 more psi to achieve desired sag (25% for me)! I'm 180lbs and went from 25% sag at 70 PSI prior to today's service, up to 85! Never have I ever had to run such high psi to achieve sag in the 10 or so service intervals I've gone through. My weight is unchanged and same pump. It feels awesome, very supportive. Haven't been able to get the last 8mm of travel, is my only complaint. 

What do you guys think might have led to this change? Blocked equalizing dimple from too much grease during the last service or something?


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

GH28 said:


> Anyone find a good way to valve the Charger damper for a lot more LSC and LSR?
> 
> Have a DBinline on the back, and it makes the front feel like a pogo stick with both C and R set dead center and 25% sag. It dives forwards somewhat unpredictably on the steep and deep sections too. The compression adjuster doesn't really do much until the last 3 clicks or so, and neither does the rebound. Cartridge is bled well, seals are greased (which they weren't from the factory), and the air cartridge is lubed well also.
> 
> I seem to remember some pics showing this damper had a clamped mid and probably a weak basevalve?


If you're an agressive rider, I've found 25% sag to be too much. Go with 20% and you'll be amazed at how much better the Pike works (use about 7 clicks LSC).

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

I tried that for a while when I first got it. It still dives due to the lack of LSC, and just bounces around a lot more in the rocks and fast chatter. Slightly improved support through g-outs, but it's still missing a lot when it comes to initial damping response in both directions.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

Dual Position Air - when new it seemed that a twist on the travel adjust and a gentle push down on the fork would easily lock it into the lowered position. Lately I twist the dial and have to really reef down on the fork and get it way down in the travel before it will lock into the lowered position - sometimes it will set the travel somewhat lower but not all the way. I"m going to try the "release trapped air in the lower stanchions" trick tonight but wondering fi anyone else had seen this problem and what to do about it ? Sometimes I am questioning if there is a problem but I definitely remember being able to easily push it down and have it lock in the lowered position all the way.


----------



## mtbdl (Sep 19, 2008)

Did it work?


----------



## Stumpjumper61 (May 25, 2011)

I don' have time to read a 47 page thread so SIAP. I am thinking about purchasing this fork but I have heard some bad things. A friend after only 100 miles miles had a problem with the top-out bumper being too tight causing an early top-out and the last few mm's of travel to stick. When this happens it needs a complete re-build. Is this a known issue?


----------



## thejimrose (Aug 13, 2008)

So i hate to even ask this BUT searched high and low and can't find what should be a painfully simple question... How is the pedal adjustment knob [top of right leg] supposed to work [27.5 pike, stock fork on '15 nomadC]? I swear i'm not insane, or mechanically incompetent BUT the fork seems to be much firmer in open and much softer in lock modes [as indicated on the adjustment knob, assuming the down/rearward facing icon is the 'selected' one.

Have their been issues of the adjustment knob being mislabeled? The fork is generally very harsh, i have the compression adjustment and rebound adjustment set in the middle of their ranges. Running about 30% sag [forget actual psi]. Pretty disappointed so for, really annoyed that R/S doesn't include the MOST BASIC instruction of the fork in the [useless and information-free] user manual. Anyway.. any input greatly appreciated.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

mtbdl said:


> Did it work?


I don't think it made much difference, I released all the air and put a paper clip through the lower seals to release any pressure, and also cycled the fork up and down full length before re-inflating. I have decided though that I don't really have a problem, I'm used to my Fox's that would definitively lock down with one push after turning the knob. I"m suspecting that these forks maybe have to bleed/equalize some air pressure or something as the first and 2nd push in the garage doesn't really seem to get them down all the way , but every time I get off the bike in the lowered position it seems to be in the right place. Note I ride in the lowered position 90% of the time, haven't had any issues.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

thejimrose said:


> So i hate to even ask this BUT searched high and low and can't find what should be a painfully simple question... How is the pedal adjustment knob [top of right leg] supposed to work [27.5 pike, stock fork on '15 nomadC]? I swear i'm not insane, or mechanically incompetent BUT the fork seems to be much firmer in open and much softer in lock modes [as indicated on the adjustment knob, assuming the down/rearward facing icon is the 'selected' one.
> 
> Have their been issues of the adjustment knob being mislabeled? The fork is generally very harsh, i have the compression adjustment and rebound adjustment set in the middle of their ranges. Running about 30% sag [forget actual psi]. Pretty disappointed so for, really annoyed that R/S doesn't include the MOST BASIC instruction of the fork in the [useless and information-free] user manual. Anyway.. any input greatly appreciated.


I assume since this is an OEM issued fork you have the normal RC adjuster not the RCT3. In that case clockwise should make it firmer and ccw make it softer, regardless of the icon. 
I run mine with only one click of compression, so if you think its too harsh don't be afraid to back it off IMO. If turning the knob in these directions does not seem to be donig the trick then maybe there is a problem.


----------



## thejimrose (Aug 13, 2008)

thanks for the help. looking at s/c's website they say the stock fork is the rct3 for the nomadC [x01 build]. does that change how it's adjusted? i've got a 3 position knob with lock/pedal/unlock icons.



Preston67 said:


> I assume since this is an OEM issued fork you have the normal RC adjuster not the RCT3. In that case clockwise should make it firmer and ccw make it softer, regardless of the icon.
> I run mine with only one click of compression, so if you think its too harsh don't be afraid to back it off IMO. If turning the knob in these directions does not seem to be donig the trick then maybe there is a problem.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I don't have an RCT3, but from what I understand moving the 3 position knob to full CCW will have the lower compression adjustment working as I have described. Turning the upper 3 click knob cw just sort of makes a larger gross adjustment in compression, ie just make sit firmer quicker. I might be wrong I haven't used one, but I would suggest clicking the 3 position knob full CCW, and then adjusting the lower multi click knob full CCW, and then increment the lower knob cw as necessary to increase the compression. There have been a few reports of these knobs having loose set screws or something and not responding correctly but you will have to research the thread if you suspect there is a problem with the functionality. In some cases people have done a simple disassembly of the knob area and found an issue. HOwever I would be sure you have a problem before doing that and would take it to your (competent) LBS first.


----------



## thejimrose (Aug 13, 2008)

10-4 thanks


----------



## Silvestri (Apr 2, 2009)

Just bought a Pike RC through tbs bike parts for $650.. is there anything I need to do to it prior to sticking it on the bike and going for a ride?


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Silvestri said:


> Just bought a Pike RC through tbs bike parts for $650.. is there anything I need to do to it prior to sticking it on the bike and going for a ride?


Cut steerer tube once you know bar height. Then install the star nut, suggest having shop help although you can DIY it, shop will have setting tool to get it in nice and even, use a vice and guide to cat steerer tube too... away from disc brakes.


----------



## Paris Galanis (Sep 5, 2013)

Hi.

I have a NS Surge Evo and I currently use a RS Domain 170 which is a good fork but too heavy, so I am considering to replace it with a Pike 160. I know that the Pike is a great fork but I am wondering how it will perform on a hardtail? 

Any opinions will be highly appreciated.


----------



## JoFa73 (Dec 8, 2013)

Well mine just got replaced for the creaking csu, and possible leaking of the charger damper, and they sent me the wrong model. another week or two without able to bike.


----------



## BobbyWilliams (Aug 3, 2004)

Where are you all sourcing your service kits? There doesn't seem to be much online...


----------



## challybert (Sep 5, 2014)

BobbyWilliams said:


> Where are you all sourcing your service kits? There doesn't seem to be much online...


Try Bike Bling
Fork Small Parts - Bike Bling


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

I recently changed the air shaft on my 27.5 Pike from 150mm to 140mm. And everything seems to be good, except... the fork sits at about 7-8mm sag by default.

I have tried equalizing the air pressure (zip tie trick), that didn't work... I have tried letting all the air out, cycling the fork, putting the air back in... Still didn't work.

So now instead of 140mm I'm more at 132mm or so. Any suggestions? What else can be done?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

When you lift the bike up off the ground does it return to full extension? Try letting all the air out and then remove the top cap on the air spring. I'd also add one bottomless token to the 140 then refill and tune. My 29, 140 sags a little on its own but I've never measured it as it's imperceptible when riding. I wouldn't worry too much about this condition as you'll still use all the travel.


----------



## challybert (Sep 5, 2014)

I have a 150 reduced to 140. 190lbs kitted up I run 80-85psi to get 22-25% sag (31-35mm) with one token installed.

I have yet to have any issues with my Pike (nervously waiting for it to become problematic though). At times, I notice it sits a tiny bit low. Maybe 2mm. Instead of being able to see the entire 10% sag box on the stanchion, I might only see the middle half of the 10% box. I notice this when the bike hasn't been used for a few days. I've checked it during rides and immediately following rides and it's never been anything but fully extended.

eta: I have about 15 hours of ride time on the Pike (150 miles or so)


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I think if you run more sag then you'll need more tokens to control bottom out. I really like to balance out my suspension front to rear and run similar sag
I like it more plush early to mid stroke ramping up towards the end stroke

I've logged 400ish miles on my Pike and DB Inline together in the last 3 weeks.


----------



## challybert (Sep 5, 2014)

manitou2200 said:


> I think if you run more sag then you'll need more tokens to control bottom out. I really like to balance out my suspension front to rear and run similar sag
> I like it more plush early to mid stroke ramping up towards the end stroke
> 
> I've logged 400ish miles on my Pike and DB Inline together in the last 3 weeks.


Yeah, my fork is for a 27.5 bike. One token has proven to be plenty at 25% sag. Usually have about 3/4inch unused. I tried 30% sag and for me, I felt the Pike felt better in the in the 22-25% range. I too have the DBinline and run it a 28% sag with 3/5ths of a large spacer installed. I tried the full spacer and low HSC LSC (1.5 turns, 6 clicks) and still ended rather aggressive rides with 7-10mm of travel unused. Thus reducing spacer size. Will be testing that out in the next few weeks.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

I have noticed a slight movement on climbs and jumps when the fork extends. It almost feels like the headset is loose. It is very minor and no sound when it happens.
I can feel a knock through the handlebars on climbs when the front wheel lifts and the fork extends.
Has anyone experienced this?


----------



## pablobell (Oct 18, 2013)

challybert said:


> ended rather aggressive rides with 7-10mm of travel unused. Thus reducing spacer size. Will be testing that out in the next few weeks.


~7mm unused is bottomed out. You can check this by removing all the air.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

pablobell said:


> ~7mm unused is bottomed out. You can check this by removing all the air.


This is not the same for every size Inline across the board. There are shared cans across different strokes and OAL. My 190x50 uses the whole shaft length without bottoming! I recommend using more volume spacers on shorter travel trail/ AM bikes.


----------



## challybert (Sep 5, 2014)

pablobell said:


> ~7mm unused is bottomed out. You can check this by removing all the air.


Pablobell,
Fair to bring that up. However, in my case, I'm actually checking how much travel I get by measuring how far the o-ring has moved after a ride. So, I'm generally getting 40-43 mm of travel movement on my 200x50mm shock.


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks for the help!

One more thing I thought I'd ask about the Pike.

When cleaning non-drive leg (after replacing the air shaft), I've noticed that there is a very tiny groove about 2-3mm long inside the leg. It doesn't look like a scratch, but I'm not sure if it's normal. See attached picture. Thoughts?


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

It's the Solo Air equalizing dimple.


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

tacubaya said:


> It's the Solo Air equalizing dimple.


Thank you!


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> I have noticed a slight movement on climbs and jumps when the fork extends. It almost feels like the headset is loose. It is very minor and no sound when it happens.
> I can feel a knock through the handlebars on climbs when the front wheel lifts and the fork extends.
> Has anyone experienced this?


Normal and has been discussed many times in this thread!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

It may be listed somewhere in this thread, but does anyone have the stock compression and rebound stacks listed? I have an RC and would like to try something to get a lot more useful LSC/LSR range out of the adjusters. They don't seem to do much until they're 75% closed off or more, and yes, the cartridge is bled correctly.


----------



## Paris Galanis (Sep 5, 2013)

Hi. Do you know how many tokens are installed from the factory in a 160 26 Pike?


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Paris Galanis said:


> Hi. Do you know how many tokens are installed from the factory in a 160 26 Pike?


None.

Check this doc: https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...hdocs/95-4018-001-000_rev_b_soloairtokens.pdf


----------



## Paris Galanis (Sep 5, 2013)

Great. Thank you very much.


----------



## Grizzy (Sep 12, 2009)

Tighten top cap and valve core. If that doesn't help its time to call rocky shocks.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

I just put a bunch of miles on this fork over the weekend. One thing I've noticed is that the bushings in this thing seem to be spec'd pretty loose. The fork will feel nice and free pushing straight down and in-line with it, but as soon as you side load it (or front load on a tall edge), the thing binds up and doesn't move. You can test this stationary off the bike too.

Do all of them have this issue or is this unusual? I really hope this isn't the "chassis improvement" they have been hyping.


----------



## Troyfan (Jun 13, 2014)

I have about 4 months of riding on my forkand have done the most riding that I have done in years. I have not noticed any binding at all with side loads. I actually had a fairly aggressive ride yesterday over very rooty terrain and if there was any binding, it would have definitely been noticable. My bushings do not have any play in them.


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

6 Pikes in my bike companion, riders from 65-110kg. Works like a charm, mostly on bikes with 150-160 travel.
Never witnessed something like you and few others are writing. I think that the VitalMTB review had it mentioned.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

GH28 said:


> I tried that for a while when I first got it. It still dives due to the lack of LSC, and just bounces around a lot more in the rocks and fast chatter. Slightly improved support through g-outs, but it's still missing a lot when it comes to initial damping response in both directions.


Diving is mostly spring rate. I'd try removing all tokens and adding more air, to run even less sag, while still being able to achieve full compression on a hard run.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

thuren said:


> Diving is mostly spring rate. I'd try removing all tokens and adding more air, to run even less sag, while still being able to achieve full compression on a hard run.


I have all the tokens out, 25% sag, compression 3 clicks out from full-in, and that gives the bike the most consistent attitude going over fast repeated deep chop.

If I run 20% sag, and less compression, the ride is pretty wild. It's both divey (since the comp has to be run a little further out for compliance) and pops back up pretty hard since the rebound damping is mostly non-existent.

If I run 30% sag, and locked out compression, well, that has other obvious issues too.

I'm thinking a re-bleed with thicker oil is what this damper desperately needs to bring back some low speed, and perhaps a comp stack or midvalve modification. It feels like a 2005 Marzocchi drop-off.

Interestingly, even with no tokens and a bunch of sag, I'm still never able to get into the last 1/2"-3/4" of travel, even with some pretty hard riding. That's also with the legs burped of air buildup, and verifying the damper will cycle all the way without bladder issues against the stanchion the last time I had the lowers off. Also verifying the bleed was also correct in the damper.


----------



## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

sounds like you need to service it and check the damper. you should be able to get full travel without running excessive sag, and the fact that you mention a lack of rebound damping also suggests you have an internal issue going on. also re binding during side loading, I tested mine after reading the Vital review and could not feel any binding.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

The damper bleed is fine - see above. They just spec 3w oil which is basically water. Has very little business being in a fork cartridge unless flow is super restricted on low speed, which then creates pressure balance issues in a non-pressurized system like the Charger damper.

What Vital review are people referring to?

Edit: Nevermind, found it. Sounds like they are describing exactly what I noticed about it. Good to know I'm not totally crazy.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

GH28 said:


> The damper bleed is fine - see above. They just spec 3w oil which is basically water. Has very little business being in a fork cartridge unless flow is super restricted on low speed, which then creates pressure balance issues in a non-pressurized system like the Charger damper.
> 
> What Vital review are people referring to?
> 
> Edit: Nevermind, found it. Sounds like they are describing exactly what I noticed about it. Good to know I'm not totally crazy.


Pressure differential is the reason behind damping, adjusting flow area to use a lower viscosity oil is 100% OK in the suspension business...


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Correct. But too tight of a bleed/flow area on the main piston in a non-pressurized system is going to make the frontside pressure nice and high, and the backside pressure low enough to cavitate, so they just make it super open and free to avoid that, and call it "plush" and "rapid recovery". If the compensator were pressurized to bring overall system pressures up, or if it had a spring backed piston, you could be much more aggressive with the valving. But it isn't, so maple syrup for LSC/LSR it is.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

GH28 said:


> I have all the tokens out, 25% sag, compression 3 clicks out from full-in, and that gives the bike the most consistent attitude going over fast repeated deep chop.
> 
> If I run 20% sag, and less compression, the ride is pretty wild. It's both divey (since the comp has to be run a little further out for compliance) and pops back up pretty hard since the rebound damping is mostly non-existent.
> 
> If I run 30% sag, and locked out compression, well, that has other obvious issues too.


I run 12-15% sag depending on terrain. I NEVER go more than 15% sag. Naturally riding style/terrain/ability is going to play into this, but I can't imagine even being able to keep the fork travel O-ring from being blown off the stanchion with more than 15%.



> I'm thinking a re-bleed with thicker oil is what this damper desperately needs to bring back some low speed, and perhaps a comp stack or midvalve modification. It feels like a 2005 Marzocchi drop-off.


When you have the damper cartridge out of the fork and cycle it, there is actually a good amount of low speed available.



> Interestingly, even with no tokens and a bunch of sag, I'm still never able to get into the last 1/2"-3/4" of travel, even with some pretty hard riding. That's also with the legs burped of air buildup, and verifying the damper will cycle all the way without bladder issues against the stanchion the last time I had the lowers off. Also verifying the bleed was also correct in the damper.


So with no air at all in the spring side can you easily mash the fork down to full travel? My fork will push the travel o-ring all the way up against the crown.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

GH28 said:


> They just spec 3w oil which is basically water.


Nope it is really not. I actually used Redline "like-water" suspension fluid in my Pike, with great results.



> Has very little business being in a fork cartridge unless flow is super restricted on low speed, which then creates pressure balance issues in a non-pressurized system like the Charger damper.


Respectfully, you are stating things that make no sense, and saying them as fact. This could get confusing to people. I know a lot about this stuff, but I learned a long time ago I don't know everything, and to keep an open mind. Food for thought.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

GH28 said:


> Correct. But too tight of a bleed/flow area on the main piston in a non-pressurized system is going to make the frontside pressure nice and high, and the backside pressure low enough to cavitate, so they just make it super open and free to avoid that, and call it "plush" and "rapid recovery". If the compensator were pressurized to bring overall system pressures up, or if it had a spring backed piston, you could be much more aggressive with the valving. But it isn't, so maple syrup for LSC/LSR it is.


The main piston in the Charger damper is regulated by shaft displacement. What you are dictating, relates to a system that puts the majority of damping forces through the main shaft piston, which is not the way the Charger damper works. Shaft displacement damping does not need much pressure at all on the "backside".

You are really far off on what you are stating, in regards to shaft displacement damping. It's fun to learn this stuff, but again you have to sometimes question what you think you know.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

^^ THIS!

Good luck using heavy viscosity oil... this isn't a port orifice party!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

thuren said:


> The main piston in the Charger damper is regulated by shaft displacement. What you are dictating, relates to a system that puts the majority of damping forces through the main shaft piston, which is not the way the Charger damper works. Shaft displacement damping does not need much pressure at all on the "backside".
> 
> You are really far off on what you are stating, in regards to shaft displacement damping. It's fun to learn this stuff, but again you have to sometimes question what you think you know.


Incorrect.

What's the rod diameter? 8mm? Maybe 10mm? Let's assume 8mm. Over 160mm of stroke that displaces *8cc* through the base valve. *12.5cc* if it were 10mm diameter. That's nothing.

The rest passes over the mid-valve. *~52cc* worth. Uses 20mm shims according to the internet so I'm assuming a cartridge ID of 22mm. It's probably more than that in reality.

The base valve only serves to put pressure against the mid and keep the pressure drop across the mid regulated and allow some additional modulation. Same in any type of shock or fork damper.

If you think it doesn't need that kind of pressure balance, then why even have a base valve? Why not just have the midvalve acting against the pressure of the bladder?

Changing oil viscosity changes the orifice damped character (the bleed). Once the oil starts shearing through the HS parts of a damper it doesn't matter too much and the effects are negligible.

Definitely not off on this type of stuff. Unfortunately you don't know my background.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Gman086 said:


> ^^ THIS!
> 
> Good luck using heavy viscosity oil... this isn't a port orifice party!
> 
> ...


Except.......it always is? And always will be?


----------



## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

thuren said:


> Nope it is really not. I actually used Redline "like-water" suspension fluid in my Pike, with great results.


What forks do you own? What have you been running recently in the past on both your DH/XC bikes?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

thuren said:


> Diving is mostly spring rate. I'd try removing all tokens and adding more air, to run even less sag, while still being able to achieve full compression on a hard run.





thuren said:


> I run 12-15% sag depending on terrain. I NEVER go more than 15% sag. Naturally riding style/terrain/ability is going to play into this, but I can't imagine even being able to keep the fork travel O-ring from being blown off the stanchion with more than 15%.
> 
> When you have the damper cartridge out of the fork and cycle it, there is actually a good amount of low speed available.
> 
> So with no air at all in the spring side can you easily mash the fork down to full travel? My fork will push the travel o-ring all the way up against the crown.


The trouble with no tokens is you loose the progressive spring rate. Yes, you gain a more linear spring rate but tuning to 10-15% sag takes away from small bump sensitivity.

Using some low speed compression with a progressive spring rate can help with the brake dive.

I personally like a more progressive spring rate both front and rear matching the air spring volume to the travel length and spring rate. More tokens are also required in the 29r forks with less travel.

The beauty of it is there is no one right way to tune these air springs, so to each his own.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

manitou2200 said:


> The trouble with no tokens is you loose the progressive spring rate. Yes, you gain a more linear spring rate but tuning to 10-15% sag takes away from small bump sensitivity.


For sure. This is where riding style, speed, weight, etc all come into play. At 200lbs, and having Cat1 DH/Enduro race times that can come in mid-pack with pro times, I'm assuming I'm at the more demanding end of normal. Maybe that is everyone here too, I'm just saying. For me small bump feel is important, but brake/G-force dive/tuck resistance is CRITICAL. Small bump comes after that, to me.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Gemini2k05 said:


> What forks do you own? What have you been running recently in the past on both your DH/XC bikes?


Man. Don't know where to start. You name it. I guess the best thing I can say is that I have not ridden a new Fox 36 yet, or a more recent Boxxer WC or anything. Of note more than just a spin around a parking lot..... 888 older and custom tuned, Fox 40, Pike, 2013 Fox float 36 180mm, Revelation, etc... Most of my Talas Fox's wer all custom tuned. Been down this road many times. Too much HSC in a fork sucks.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

GH28 said:


> If you think it doesn't need that kind of pressure balance, then why even have a base valve? Why not just have the midvalve acting against the pressure of the bladder?


Are you thinking the other way around on this?

The mid-valve in this Pike Charger damper is virtually doing VERY little. It is a very open design.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

GH28 said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> The base valve only serves to put pressure against the mid and keep the pressure drop across the mid regulated and allow some additional modulation. Same in any type of shock or fork damper.


Ok so please explain to me why all the compression adjusters, in most(all but a CCBD for example) all dampers, are generating these force changes through the base valve(shaft displacement)?

What would a fork cartridge be without a base valve? You would have no compression adjustment only rebound. You would also need a nitrogen charge or something.



> Definitely not off on this type of stuff. Unfortunately you don't know my background.


O.K........... ?


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

GH28 said:


> I'm thinking a re-bleed with thicker oil is what this damper desperately needs to bring back some low speed, and perhaps a comp stack or midvalve modification. It feels like a 2005 Marzocchi drop-off.


How much do you weigh? You can gain a little lsc with a viscosity change, at the risk of stiffer lsr, but I'd be more inclined to revalve it.



GH28 said:


> The damper bleed is fine - see above. They just spec 3w oil which is basically water. Has very little business being in a fork cartridge unless flow is super restricted on low speed, which then creates pressure balance issues in a non-pressurized system like the Charger damper.


I'm not following your statement on pressure balance. The more restrictive the base valve, the higher the cavitation limit and the more low/mid damping. Are you referring to the mid valve bleed??? Someone should shoot the designer if the midvalve stack is so stiff that the bleed (rebound orifice) is the limiting factor. Thuren suggests the midvalve is already soft. I think one of the reasons they go with lighter oil is better viscosity stability with temperature changes. It's not like they can't design the cartridge to work well with a lighter oil.

Stiff springs, light damping.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

manitou2200 said:


> Using some low speed compression with a progressive spring rate can help with the brake dive.


Becareful with that theory. Depending on the design of the air spring, high volume/pressure setups will have more mid stroke force (linear) and that is what really combats dive. A low volume/pressure setup tends to be flatter through the midstroke but with more ramp at the end. This is assuming equal sag.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

manitou2200 said:


> Using some low speed compression with a progressive spring rate can help with the brake dive.


LSC can ONLY help with quick/rapid stabs at the front brake. A good hard smooth pull on the front brake, causing the front end to drop/dive, is controlled by spring rate(air pressure). Sure making it more progressive can keep you from going TOO deep, but by that time you are very deep in the travel, where you really should not be unless hitting objects, in my opinion. That deep in also gets the head angle much steeper, which is a danger zone if that hard on the front brake to get there.

As you mention this is all personal preference. I don't mind bottoming out often. I like using my travel and knowing where the limits are.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

ktm520 said:


> I think one of the reasons they go with lighter oil is better viscosity stability with temperature changes.


This is why I tuned my last Pike with Redline Likewater. I will probably do the same with the new one I just got. I ride in cold temps often, and I hate feeling the damper change damping feel drastically, when near freezing out.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Yep, do the same thing on my forks when it gets below freezing, but not for stabality, just because the viscosity is too high. RS does it more for the hot side of the spectrum under hard use, guessing, don't know that for fact.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

ktm520 said:


> RS does it more for the hot side of the spectrum under hard use, guessing, don't know that for fact.


There is so little damping in a fork being 1:1, combined with the rather high fluid volume, I can't imagine these cartridges get very warm at all. Don't know for sure though never checked one.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

thuren said:


> For sure. This is where riding style, speed, weight, etc all come into play. At 200lbs, and having Cat1 DH/Enduro race times that can come in mid-pack with pro times, I'm assuming I'm at the more demanding end of normal. Maybe that is everyone here too, I'm just saying. For me small bump feel is important, but brake/G-force dive/tuck resistance is CRITICAL. Small bump comes after that, to me.


I agree completely with your qualifying demands on the fork. I'm using mine on a AM 29r and pushing it hard but looking for the best all around suspension for me at 155 riding weight. I use all of the travel most all of the time but not bottoming hard. I'm fairly fast but don't race any longer. Riding with buds and hard chargers is almost as demanding as the racing was! 😁



ktm520 said:


> Becareful with that theory. Depending on the design of the air spring, high volume/pressure setups will have more mid stroke force (linear) and that is what really combats dive. A low volume/pressure setup tends to be flatter through the midstroke but with more ramp at the end. This is assuming equal sag.


Not theory just practical use here. I do agree that it goes beyond LSC in a lot of cases. It's really a balance with air spring volume, spring rate, sag, LSC and HSC (where available)!


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

manitou2200 said:


> I agree completely with your qualifying demands on the fork. I'm using mine on a AM 29r and pushing it hard but looking for the best all around suspension for me at 155 riding weight. I use all of the travel most all of the time but not bottoming hard. I'm fairly fast but don't race any longer. Riding with buds and hard chargers is almost as demanding as the racing was!


The fork sure does have better ride quality on small bumps, with less pressure, and the volume spacer(s)! If ride quality was my number one concern, I would probably be running my fork that way, it's just not as "fast" for me.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

ktm520 said:


> How much do you weigh? You can gain a little lsc with a viscosity change, at the risk of stiffer lsr, but I'd be more inclined to revalve it.


The problem with changing to higher viscosity fluid is the potential to blow the bladder in the charger damper. They designed it to run more open with lower viscosity fluids and I think it's best to not vary that component to far from spec.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

manitou2200 said:


> The problem with changing to higher viscosity fluid is the potential to blow the bladder in the charger damper. They designed it to run more open with lower viscosity fluids and I think it's best to not vary that component to far from spec.


I did not think of that. I'm sure it would not cause a problem, but if the higher viscosity caused the resistance in the mid valve to over-ride the base valve, to allow cavitation, could rapidly expand the bladder. That bladder is THICK though just replaced one a few days ago.

I still don't understand all this re-valve/etc discussion. I've pulled apart a lot of dampers, and the Pike is the first one I pulled apart that after assessing, decided, "not worth messing with this thing the tuning looks great"!


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

thuren said:


> I did not think of that. I'm sure it would not cause a problem, but if the higher viscosity caused the resistance in the mid valve to over-ride the base valve, to allow cavitation, could rapidly expand the bladder. That bladder is THICK though just replaced one a few days ago.


I don't think the bladder will tear but I do think it will pull out of the crimp because it's a sleeve instead of a condom type bladder. I do know that this is a potential issue in variance from spec fluids!


----------



## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

manitou2200 said:


> The problem with changing to higher viscosity fluid is the potential to blow the bladder in the charger damper. They designed it to run more open with lower viscosity fluids and I think it's best to not vary that component to far from spec.


How would you blow the damper with higher viscosity fluid? The fluid would move more slowly through the damper. The bladder is on the low pressure side of the damper, and it can't pop until its overfilled anyway. All it does is compensate for the volume displacement of the damper shaft. It does not put any real pressure into the system.

Are you thinking of oil so thick that it cannot pass through the rebound piston midvalve ports? That would be some pretty thick fluid...


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Scotth72 said:


> How would you blow the damper with higher viscosity fluid? The fluid would move more slowly through the damper. The bladder is on the low pressure side of the damper, and it can't pop until its overfilled anyway. All it does is compensate for the volume displacement of the damper shaft. It does not put any real pressure into the system.


The only way I could see is if the main piston/mid valve cavitated. If that happened, the column of oil would momentarily force into the bladder.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

thuren said:


> I did not think of that. I'm sure it would not cause a problem, but if the higher viscosity caused the resistance in the mid valve to over-ride the base valve, to allow cavitation, could rapidly expand the bladder. That bladder is THICK though just replaced one a few days ago.
> 
> I still don't understand all this re-valve/etc discussion. I've pulled apart a lot of dampers, and the Pike is the first one I pulled apart that after assessing, decided, "not worth messing with this thing the tuning looks great"!


Increasing viscosity and changing nothing else will have more of an effect on base valve resistance, therefore increasing (slightly) the cavitation limit. No worries of blowing a bladder.

I agree with Thuren's view point on spring setup. I've found that's the best way to get good support. Although I can't believe you run the sag that low.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

ktm520 said:


> Although I can't believe you run the sag that low.


I did not think it was that low either, until I checked it 2 days ago haha. Had to check 3 times. I tune by feel, and honestly I'm pretty much right on the suggested pressure on the fork leg. Pretty sure I'm right at 80psi or something, going by memory.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Changing from Maxima 3wt RSF to 7wt is not THAT drastic of a change. It's not so thick that it will fail to pass over the midvalve and somehow displace more volume than normal to the bladder, at the expense of cavitation behind the mid.

It (should be) enough to feel at the adjuster. Keep in mind I'm on an RC version on an E29, so it just has a LSC bleed adjuster.


I'm also looking for more LSR. The two adjusters don't make any difference until they are 80% or more turned in on the low end. So, a shift in the LSC/LSR range with a slight modification to the HSC stack should work out nicely. Done it on many other forks and shocks with good success, and it holds up to way harder riding with more stability.

Also, the reason there's little heat effect with this damper is because...there's not much damping going on! It's weak, simple as that. It's supposed to convert motion into heat, and it doesn't do a very good job of limiting/slowing motion. You can take the damper out of the fork and compare it to anything else with good LSC (Dorado damper for example) and feel that it has nowhere near the same range.


One other thing I noticed while doing some testing yesterday - depending on how I measure the sag with the loose bushings, I can get two very different sag readings. If I just sit on the bike, move the ring to the seal, and get off the bike, I get something like 18-20%. If I ride around and bounce around on the bike, and let it settle into place, I'll get 28%. The bushing bind is that pronounced. 

I'm 180-185# and have been running 68-75psi. 160mm 29er RC Solo Air version.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

GH28, Keep us posted on the oil wt. change with the Pike. Im somewhat apprehensive about changing viscosity of the oil because of how the bladder is held in the dampener cartridge. I am interested to see how it affects the dampening. I don't require tons of dampening in either direction as I tend to set my forks/ suspension up on the lively side with lots of pop but I'd also like to see if I can make the dampening control tuning more effective.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

GH28 said:


> Also, the reason there's little heat effect with this damper is because...there's not much damping going on! It's weak, simple as that. It's supposed to convert motion into heat, and it doesn't do a very good job of limiting/slowing motion. You can take the damper out of the fork and compare it to anything else with good LSC (Dorado damper for example) and feel that it has nowhere near the same range.


I'm not sure how yours works, but if I turn up the compression halfway on mine it slows the fork considerably and is easy to notice, turning it up from there also makes a big difference. Although my reba went to "lockout", it was way harsher and didn't control the motion anywhere near as well. It's also far beyond the ridiculous pogo-motion that older marzocchis had with virtually no compression damping. I can make the rebound molasses slow on the pike too. It takes 13 or more turns, but if you need more because you weight 250lbs, that's not the fault of the fork, you can't design a suspension fork for a wide range of body weights with the same internals.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Jayem said:


> I'm not sure how yours works, but if I turn up the compression halfway on mine it slows the fork considerably and is easy to notice, turning it up from there also makes a big difference. Although my reba went to "lockout", it was way harsher and didn't control the motion anywhere near as well. It's also far beyond the ridiculous pogo-motion that older marzocchis had with virtually no compression damping. I can make the rebound molasses slow on the pike too. It takes 13 or more turns, but if you need more because you weight 250lbs, that's not the fault of the fork, you can't design a suspension fork for a wide range of body weights with the same internals.


Like I said, I'm pretty average weight/air pressure.

It doesn't surprise me that their manufacturing tolerance stack ups might allow widely varying ranges of bleeds too. My 2 clicks out might be the same as your 10 clicks out.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

GH28 said:


> Like I said, I'm pretty average weight/air pressure.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me that their manufacturing tolerance stack ups might allow widely varying ranges of bleeds too. My 2 clicks out might be the same as your 10 clicks out.


I think your fork is just broken.


----------



## Steve VS (Oct 11, 2012)

GH28 said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> What's the rod diameter? 8mm? Maybe 10mm? Let's assume 8mm. Over 160mm of stroke that displaces *8cc* through the base valve. *12.5cc* if it were 10mm diameter. That's nothing.
> 
> ...


From a design point of view, oil displacement quantity doesn't have any direct correlation to the damping force generated by either valve until you have specific flow apertures and valving in place. The Pike midvalve (if you could even call it that - it's a very high flow check valve) requires very little pressure differential to open massively wide. On any non-pressurised damper, as you say, if you tried to generate substantial damping with just a midvalve it'd just cavitate as there is no pressure ahead of the piston to force fluid through it. That alone dictates that the base valve must generate, as an absolute minimum, at least the same pressure differential that the midvalve does.

Like pretty well all fork dampers, the Pike has to be externally adjustable to such a degree that a 50kg/110lbs rider isn't going to get on it and find it unrideably harsh when backed right off. That means that the base valve damping needs to allow for that, and if there's little pressure difference over the base valve then the pressure drop over the midvalve has to be tiny as well. When you require more support from the fork and crank the LSC adjuster, obviously you're only adjusting the orifice size in the base valve, which in turn substantially increases the total damping force, demonstrating the very high pressure differential over the base valve which acts on the damper shaft cross-sectional area. The base valve flow area is necessarily far lower than the midvalve. You need to have a good look at the bore to shaft ratio, which in this case is 2:1 (20mm cart ID, 10mm shaft). Boundary conditions on that dictate that the midvalve can generate, at most, 3 times the damping force that the base valve does when set to its most open position before cavitation occurs. Given that the damping force generated with the the base valve at full open is demonstrably tiny and that cavitation isn't occurring, you can conclude that no more than 75% of that miniscule force is coming from the midvalve. When you actually ask for a reasonable degree of support from the damper by winding the compression on, the midvalve is proportionally doing less and less of the work.

In short - as with most forks in stock configuration, the midvalve in that fork is never going to be able to do much proportionally unless you're especially light and running your LSC way open. While it needs much lower pressure differentials to generate a given damping force than the base valve, for most riders it isn't actually making a substantial contribution simply because the external adjustment range dictates that that must be the case.

On another note, from your other posts I notice you've mentioned sag figures of 20-30%. 20% is soft for a fork, 30% is extremely soft, borderline unrideable if you're an aggressive rider. With that said, measuring sag on any fork is never very accurate due to bushing bind, and relying too heavily on specific numbers for forks won't get you very far.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Right, the MV on that isn't very functional, so it's getting most of it's damping force from displacement through the BV. Same with any MTB fork damper for the most part since nobody is going to make the weight/cost/complexity sacrifice to use a pressurized damper. The Avalanche nitrogen canister for the bladder did look interesting for that reason.

I get why they do that, since it has to be a reasonable one-size-fits-all damper for an extreme range of rider weights. And it has to be cheap to make. And generally simple for service/reliability reasons.

For any fork made in the last 5 years though it seemed to be REALLY light on the LS control in both directions, that's all.


And yes, I'm paying less attention to the sag figures and going generally by feel/chassis motion and travel usage. That said I do run my trail bike front ends a lot softer than my DH bike because I'm not going straight down the side of a mountain with it. There are only a handful of spots where I'd find that kind of setup useful on a trail bike and comfort is more important for that application.


----------



## Steve VS (Oct 11, 2012)

GH28 said:


> Right, the MV on that isn't very functional, so it's getting most of it's damping force from displacement through the BV. Same with any MTB fork damper for the most part since nobody is going to make the weight/cost/complexity sacrifice to use a pressurized damper. The Avalanche nitrogen canister for the bladder did look interesting for that reason.
> 
> I get why they do that, since it has to be a reasonable one-size-fits-all damper for an extreme range of rider weights. And it has to be cheap to make. And generally simple for service/reliability reasons.
> 
> ...


If you're finding the fork underdamped and you're not over 85kg/190lbs I'd suggest that either something is up with your fork (sketchy rebound check valve or piston glide rings possibly) or that you have fairly unusual preferences. Either way you're going to have to pull it apart to sort it out.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Steve VS said:


> If you're finding the fork underdamped and you're not over 85kg/190lbs I'd suggest that either something is up with your fork (sketchy rebound check valve or piston glide rings possibly) or that you have fairly unusual preferences. Either way you're going to have to pull it apart to sort it out.


Yep, it is still under warranty though and I think the bushing issue is more concerning at the moment. Will decide in the next couple of days what to do with that, but I'll go through the damper in detail if I need to and try the oil swap if I don't find anything else out of place.

I think my setups are usually pretty neutral, but maybe a bit on the dead side. Overly lively jumpy setups and I don't usually get along well.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

manitou2200 said:


> I don't think the bladder will tear but I do think it will pull out of the crimp because it's a sleeve instead of a condom type bladder. I do know that this is a potential issue in variance from spec fluids!


I can't see the bladder popping off at the ends. It's pretty wedged in there. The one I replaced had a big crack in it that naturally blew all the fluid out.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

GH28 said:


> Changing from Maxima 3wt RSF to 7wt is not THAT drastic of a change. It's not so thick that it will fail to pass over the midvalve and somehow displace more volume than normal to the bladder, at the expense of cavitation behind the mid.


I agree, but you had mentioned putting in some super thick fluid. You should have just said you were thinking of putting in 7wt.



> It (should be) enough to feel at the adjuster. Keep in mind I'm on an RC version on an E29, so it just has a LSC bleed adjuster.


For sure you should feel it. I could see where a little more LSC would be desirable sometimes with the RC version. Also, your adjuster I believe is not just adjusting bleed, but also adding shim preload to the base valve shim stack.



> I'm also looking for more LSR. The two adjusters don't make any difference until they are 80% or more turned in on the low end. So, a shift in the LSC/LSR range with a slight modification to the HSC stack should work out nicely. Done it on many other forks and shocks with good success, and it holds up to way harder riding with more stability.


You want more LSR? I could see that desirable on flow trails that are pretty smooth with just big jumps and drops, but on chunky terrain more LSR normally rides and performs terrible, as the fork will pack up. Even at 80psi in my fork I run my rebound only a few clicks from full open.



> Also, the reason there's little heat effect with this damper is because...there's not much damping going on! It's weak, simple as that. It's supposed to convert motion into heat, and it doesn't do a very good job of limiting/slowing motion. You can take the damper out of the fork and compare it to anything else with good LSC (Dorado damper for example) and feel that it has nowhere near the same range.


If you had a RCT3 you might change your opinion a little, as my LSC knob does quite a bit. And yes the damper is not "doing" a lot, as it's 1:1 in a bicycle fork. Too much damping, especially high speed, and you will start blowing hands off the grips.



> One other thing I noticed while doing some testing yesterday - depending on how I measure the sag with the loose bushings, I can get two very different sag readings. If I just sit on the bike, move the ring to the seal, and get off the bike, I get something like 18-20%. If I ride around and bounce around on the bike, and let it settle into place, I'll get 28%. The bushing bind is that pronounced.
> 
> I'm 180-185# and have been running 68-75psi. 160mm 29er RC Solo Air version.


For sure. This is why, in my opinion, measuring sag on a fork and comparing back and forth from other bikes/riders, makes no sense. If my short chainstay/long front end bike gives one figure, thats totally different on a long rear/shorter wheelbase bike. Kind of like comparing rear suspension sag one bike to another. Totally different.

I have an E-29 also, and at 200lbs geared up and 80psi in my fork, I would imagine 75psi is set up pretty aggressive on your E29, but sounds like it's not.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

I recall seeing cutaways of the RC and RTC3+CHARGEREVOSHIMZ dampers and thought the RC only had a bleed adjuster and the HS stack was unaffected. I'll have to double check that.

At ~70psi the LSR can easily be set up unacceptably fast. The first half of the adjustment range is just hyper, and it's not for lack of fluid in the damper either.

Most of the trails I'm riding are really rocky, loose and fast. Occasional hits/jumps, but not the focus. Yeah, the fork has to recover, but it can't be jumping the front end in the air over every small rock.


And yes, the molasses thing was an exaggeration. In rear shocks for example I've typically gone from 2.5/3wt to 5wt or 7wt with a slightly tweaked HS stack with great results. Based on the feel here with this fork and what I've felt from other forks, I'd expect a similar result.


----------



## robb_dj (Jun 12, 2012)

I just got a 2015 Process 111 29er with a 120 mm Pike on it. You could compress the fork about 2-3 mm before it felt very firm, and on the rebound stroke the fork wouldn't fully extend so if you lifted the front wheel by the handlebars the fork would then extend 2-3 mm more. I used the sag ring to check it. My buddy at Dirt Rag looked at it and said that's not right so my shop sent it back to Rock Shox. They replaced the RC damper with the RCT3 and supposedly tested it and sent it back. However I am still having the same issue. My shop sucks, it's new, and the only dealer Kona dealer in the area, and I got two different stories from the guy, first that RS said it was a leak in the damper, and then that a scratch was causing the issue. It's a brand new bike and I was without it for 3 weeks and I've had a couple of other issues like the brakes had to be warrantied and I'm sick of dealing with these guys. Anyone else have this issue or know what's up or if this is normal with the Pike? Maybe on the spaced down to 120 version? I didn't go through the 52 pages of the thread yet, so if this has been covered already I apologize. Thanks.


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

robb_dj said:


> I just got a 2015 Process 111 29er with a 120 mm Pike on it. You could compress the fork about 2-3 mm before it felt very firm, and on the rebound stroke the fork wouldn't fully extend so if you lifted the front wheel by the handlebars the fork would then extend 2-3 mm more. I used the sag ring to check it. My buddy at Dirt Rag looked at it and said that's not right so my shop sent it back to Rock Shox. They replaced the RC damper with the RCT3 and supposedly tested it and sent it back. However I am still having the same issue. My shop sucks, it's new, and the only dealer Kona dealer in the area, and I got two different stories from the guy, first that RS said it was a leak in the damper, and then that a scratch was causing the issue. It's a brand new bike and I was without it for 3 weeks and I've had a couple of other issues like the brakes had to be warrantied and I'm sick of dealing with these guys. Anyone else have this issue or know what's up or if this is normal with the Pike? Maybe on the spaced down to 120 version? I didn't go through the 52 pages of the thread yet, so if this has been covered already I apologize. Thanks.


I think it would help you to read through the post  The issue is well-know and very easy to fix:

- let all the air out the fork
- cycle the fork several times by completely compressing it
- pump the air back in

Good luck!


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Anyone dealt successfully with the "chatter issue"?
The problem happens when riding fast over a rough terrain (small/med stones, rocks, etc.). Hands and shoulders suffer...

I played with the settings and found 70psi gives smoother ride compared to 50psi, with the same rebound (fully open), and with the same LSC (fully open). This is counter-intuitive.
With 50psi I use all the travel when doing up to 1M jumps,- with 70 psi I don't. 
I assume I don't have any tokens installed. 
50psi gives ~25% sag, and 70psi is ~15%sag, but I don't trust this parameter.
It's PIKE 160 26" solo air. I weigh 78kg. 

Also, the shop sold me '2015 PIKE' model, though it's written that it's produced on 29/05/2014. Any idea on how to know what model year it is and are there any differences? 

Any thoughts/suggestions highly appreciated - thanks in advance!
Paul


----------



## robb_dj (Jun 12, 2012)

Hey Dreys,
Thanks for your reply. I did go through the first 20 pages of the thread after I posted and found that what I'm experiencing is normal. I saw the issue you are referring to which is the fork gets 'sucked down' so it won't extend fully. My experience is more of what people are calling play at the top of the stroke of about 2 mm, which is the equalization of the positive and negative air chambers. It's mentioned at least 5-8 times between pages 10-20. The crazy or sad part since I was without the bike for 3 weeks is the shop described my issue to Rock Shox and they said send it in. Perhaps it was poorly explained by the shop. But then Rock Shox did supposedly find an issue, though I got 2 different stories from the shop what it was, and the replaced the RC damper with an RCT3 damper, so I guess that's a silver lining. Not that I really expect to ever run it other than open, but the LSC might have more range.


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

paulki said:


> I played with the settings and found 70psi gives smoother ride compared to 50psi, with the same rebound (fully open), and with the same LSC (fully open). This is counter-intuitive.
> With 50psi I use all the travel when doing up to 1M jumps,- with 70 psi I don't.
> 
> Paul


I really think people need to start referencing the suggested air pressure chart on the fork leg, instead of messing with sag. At your 78kg(170lb) the low end of the suggested is 65psi. 50psi would be a good pressure for 55kg(120lb) small woman.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

robb_dj said:


> Hey Dreys,
> Thanks for your reply. I did go through the first 20 pages of the thread after I posted and found that what I'm experiencing is normal. I saw the issue you are referring to which is the fork gets 'sucked down' so it won't extend fully. My experience is more of what people are calling play at the top of the stroke of about 2 mm, which is the equalization of the positive and negative air chambers. It's mentioned at least 5-8 times between pages 10-20. The crazy or sad part since I was without the bike for 3 weeks is the shop described my issue to Rock Shox and they said send it in. Perhaps it was poorly explained by the shop. But then Rock Shox did supposedly find an issue, though I got 2 different stories from the shop what it was, and the replaced the RC damper with an RCT3 damper, so I guess that's a silver lining. Not that I really expect to ever run it other than open, but the LSC might have more range.


You can ask the shop for the RMA# and than call RS directly, give them the number, and ask what was wrong with the fork & what they did to it.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

thuren said:


> I really think people need to start referencing the suggested air pressure chart on the fork leg, instead of messing with sag. At your 78kg(170lb) the low end of the suggested is 65psi. 50psi would be a good pressure for 55kg(120lb) small woman.


That's what I wrote - I do not bother to set the sag.
However, although 70psi is better than 50psi, it still rides harsh.


----------



## leejords (Jan 23, 2013)

Calling all Pike Ninjas....!

I have had my Pike 26" DPA for about 2 months and whilst racing in this years Trans Provence it started to feel a bit dead. Needed much more effort to compress in relation to small bump sensitivity and basically felt nothing like it did when I strapped it on in late August.

Now home and after reading this thread I decided to undertake a lower leg service as per the SRAM tech guides and a video from MBR. My first stumbling block came when trying to compress the forks to remove the air, it simply wouldn't do it. It always wanted to spring back to almost full extension. Not the end of the world I thought but not the same as the fork in the video. Once the lowers were off, I noticed that oil from the non drive side was yellow and oil from the drive side was pink. A little unnerving bit I followed the service to the letter and put everything back together. 

Here's where the fun starts. Rebound, working fine, tried it full left and right of arc and it comes back super slow and fast respectively. Fork also feels fine in the open setting on my quick blast outside the house. Once put into the semi-locked and locked position though it allows about 50mm of travel and then hits a brick wall. I am not going to lie my head is battered and I feel a little gutted that I have tried to do a job to the best of my ability and to the letter and it's seems to have gone downhill.

My final problem is that I bought these forks from a shop in France and I know that the UK service centre will more than likely tell me to deal with the shop in France which I imagine will cost a near house mortgage in shipping costs.... 

Guys and girls, hit me with it, any ideas what's causing it and also how bad it is??

All the very best,

Lee.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

"Here's where the fun starts. Rebound, working fine, tried it full left and right of arc and it comes back super slow and fast respectively. Fork also feels fine in the open setting on my quick blast outside the house. Once put into the semi-locked and locked position though it allows about 50mm of travel and then hits a brick wall"

That's how it's supposed to work in fact acc. to RS


----------



## leejords (Jan 23, 2013)

paulki said:


> "Here's where the fun starts. Rebound, working fine, tried it full left and right of arc and it comes back super slow and fast respectively. Fork also feels fine in the open setting on my quick blast outside the house. Once put into the semi-locked and locked position though it allows about 50mm of travel and then hits a brick wall"
> 
> That's how it's supposed to work in fact acc. to RS


What to go from moving to 100% resistance with just a quarter of it's travel? This is the 2nd pike I have had since it come out and neither felt anything like this before today.

You couldn't ride a trail like this, you would be out the front door in seconds....


----------



## wolfbeast (Sep 11, 2006)

Is this thread really indicative of all the problems that the pike has. I was going to put one on my blur lt2 but I was too cheap to spend the $800 and not sure about the whole charger dampener thing. 

I bought an x-fusion vengeance RC for $359 and I have been very pleased even though it is almost a pound heavier. I liked saving the money and really like the all metal internals along with the adjustable shim stack. 

I have wondered if I made the right decision with everybody raving over the pike, but lately this thread has shown a lot of problems with the pike.

The new 2015 Fox 36 float thread has a bunch of posts of people swearing off the pike. 

So is the pike still worth it?


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

If XF made a 160mm/29er fork, I would buy one in a heartbeat. I've owned a bunch of their forks and shocks and they are VERY nicely made compared to anything RockShox. Not perfect, but way better for still being a pricepoint product.


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Any time a very popular product is around for a year or so, you are going to be able to find someone with every problem under the sun. The question is, how common are these problems? You can't answer that with this thread.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

leejords said:


> Now home and after reading this thread I decided to undertake a lower leg service as per the SRAM tech guides and a video from MBR. My first stumbling block came when trying to compress the forks to remove the air, it simply wouldn't do it. It always wanted to spring back to almost full extension. Not the end of the world I thought but not the same as the fork in the video. Once the lowers were off, I noticed that oil from the non drive side was yellow and oil from the drive side was pink. A little unnerving bit I followed the service to the letter and put everything back together.


If the oil in the drive side was pink then some damper oil has come out of the damper. You could have the damper re-bled or you could have the whole damper rebuilt. Having the damper re-bled leaves the chance of it happening again, then again having it rebuilt does not mean it will be 100% as it seems the issue is with the seal head burping oil out past it.


----------



## leejords (Jan 23, 2013)

Rick Draper said:


> If the oil in the drive side was pink then some damper oil has come out of the damper. You could have the damper re-bled or you could have the whole damper rebuilt. Having the damper re-bled leaves the chance of it happening again, then again having it rebuilt does not mean it will be 100% as it seems the issue is with the seal head burping oil out past it.


Yes,

Seems your right Rick, our local suspension expert has it now and has said that the seal has gone on the charger. He is going to try and sort it out tomorrow. Will let you know the outcome.

All the best,

Lee.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Let's assume the rebound and LSC is set up enough to handle chatter (if the PSI were correct). Appreciating that the smoothest part of the fork is the initial stroke:

1.Maybe, for your weight, 50psi is just outside this smoothest part of the travel and 70spi keeps it well within.

2.You also have to figure that at the higher pressure the chatter is not moving the fork as far as would 50psi. Now with repeated chatter, that extra travel time as a difference that the compression/rebound stroke takes is noticeable.



paulki said:


> Anyone dealt successfully with the "chatter issue"?
> The problem happens when riding fast over a rough terrain (small/med stones, rocks, etc.). Hands and shoulders suffer...
> 
> I played with the settings and found 70psi gives smoother ride compared to 50psi, with the same rebound (fully open), and with the same LSC (fully open). This is counter-intuitive.
> ...


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

wolfbeast said:


> Is this thread really indicative of all the problems that the pike has.


No. First of all a lot of these problem posts are from the same guys, so lots of talk about a small amount of forks. Also, some of these guys clearly do not understand what they are doing when diagnosing and/or servicing their fork themselves, which makes it quite hard to pinpoint if the fork is at fault. The Pike has been hyped quite a bit, so there is a risk of people without basic suspension setup skills buying it, expecting a magic ride, but not getting it because of their own setup errors.

That said: Sure there are Pikes with issues. It is sold in enormous amounts. It's a pretty succesful product for Rock Shox. You are bound to hear faillures, even if the rate is really low. On forums, you never hear from the thousands of riders hapily riding their fork. Unless a product has a definitive weakness, I'd advise to not base any conclusions on forum talk. There are problematic X-fusions and Fox F36's too, as the topics about those forks show.

Sure the Pike is worth it. I'm still really happy with mine and lots of riders that I know are happy with theirs. In the end you just have to buy the fork that fits your needs and budget.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

hillharman said:


> Any time a very popular product is around for a year or so, you are going to be able to find someone with every problem under the sun. The question is, how common are these problems? You can't answer that with this thread.


I had a very similar experience with a non-bike related product. I have over a dozen trees in my year, and with fall here it was time for me to find a new leaf blower (my wife is too busy). Read a bunch of reviews online, and although I wanted a Stihl (the dealer is a small shop 3 miles away from me) the recent review complained about carb issues.

I asked the dealer about it, and he just started shaking his head. "You can't believe much from the idiots that review products online. I sell over 500 units of Stihl a year, and can count on one hand how many unhappy customers I have had".

He may have been blowing smoke up my a$$, but his tone of voice sounded quite serious to me.


----------



## chyu89 (Sep 26, 2009)

Anyone has issue with maxle lite axle direction. Follow instruction press it and it couldn't turn.

Wonder anyone has this issue?


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

chyu89 said:


> Anyone has issue with maxle lite axle direction. Follow instruction press it and it couldn't turn.
> 
> Wonder anyone has this issue?


Press it harder. It only turns once pressed in to allmost the end.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

I havent read this entire pike mega thread but anyone running a monarch plus debon air with their pike? I would like some feedback on the shock.


----------



## redpoint (May 23, 2014)

stumpynerd said:


> I havent read this entire pike mega thread but anyone running a monarch plus debon air with their pike? I would like some feedback on the shock.


I am. As are a lot of people in the 2015 Santa Cruz Nomad thread [on mtbr] - the pike/debonair combo is common on the 2015 Nomad. I'm probably not the best person to ask b/c I took a long hiatus from mountain bike riding and just got back into it about 6 months ago. There's a lot of chatter about that shock on that thread. Feel free to fire me some questions and I'll do my best to answer.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

chyu89 said:


> Anyone has issue with maxle lite axle direction. Follow instruction press it and it couldn't turn.
> 
> Wonder anyone has this issue?





JeroenK said:


> Press it harder. It only turns once pressed in to allmost the end.


It helps to place the threaded end on a wood bench or block then push down and rotate it to adjust it.


----------



## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

wolfbeast said:


> Is this thread really indicative of all the problems that the pike has....


If i really think about, I have had a warranty problem with every fork I've owned since '94 except for two forks. So most all forks have something going on. That said got 4 weeks in on my just warranty serviced Pike and the lockout has gone south again, probably a leaky dampener. If i wasn't so addicted to the lockout I just go with an open bath Avy upgrade.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Wow, I use the "lockout" on my pike almost never. Just no reason to. The best thing about the pike is you can dial in a healthy amount of low-speed damping so it's not a pogo-stick like older marzocchis and other forks.


----------



## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Wow, I use the "lockout" on my pike almost never. Just no reason to. The best thing about the pike is you can dial in a healthy amount of low-speed damping so it's not a pogo-stick like older marzocchis and other forks.


Ya this is my first bike in 6 years with a lockout front and back. Got a mile climb out on pavement on my local ride. I had forgotten the amount of power and speed I get standing on the pedals.


----------



## ridonkulus (Sep 5, 2011)

Anybody know where to get a 27.5 130mm air shaft, or 26 140mm


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

ridonkulus said:


> Anybody know where to get a 27.5 130mm air shaft, or 26 140mm


Here:
Bikeman RockShox Pike Solo Air Air Shaft 140mm Travel 26"/130mm Travel 27.5" (change Travel to 140 on 26"/13


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Wondering how it compares to fox and how she climbs.


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

Sorry for asking the same if it's been asked but I could not face reading page after page . So have we pinpointed just what the issue is with the pikes ie travel not fully exstending? I've done a lower leg service but still my travel is stuck down 20% . If I know the issue then I could sort it . ? Is this a main seal head leak on the air side ? Or is this somthing that's bigger than my skills will allow to fix . Surely somone must have found the true reason for this issue ?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

It's a feature of a solo air fork if you let all the air out quickly. Remove the air from the air side and then pull the fork to full extension, this will release air from the negative chamber into the positive.


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

Rick Draper said:


> It's a feature of a solo air fork if you let all the air out quickly. Remove the air from the air side and then pull the fork to full extension, this will release air from the negative chamber into the positive.


Thanks but no joy with that . I've tried all of the normal ideas hence I resorted to a lower leg service. Must be a known reason for this issue


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Must have a blocked transfer port then.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

If the sag is set correctly is it possible that the fork is actually doing what its meant to do. It's just that you are not experiencing a 'hit' that warrants a fuller extension?

Also, are you using a significant amount of LSC that might make it harder to push thru at the top end?



2013megaAM said:


> Sorry for asking the same if it's been asked but I could not face reading page after page . So have we pinpointed just what the issue is with the pikes ie travel not fully exstending? I've done a lower leg service but still my travel is stuck down 20% . If I know the issue then I could sort it . ? Is this a main seal head leak on the air side ? Or is this somthing that's bigger than my skills will allow to fix . Surely somone must have found the true reason for this issue ?


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

lucifuge said:


> If the sag is set correctly is it possible that the fork is actually doing what its meant to do. It's just that you are not experiencing a 'hit' that warrants a fuller extension?
> 
> Also, are you using a significant amount of LSC that might make it harder to push thru at the top end?


 running 70psi 3clicks of comresion. My forks are stuck down by 20% at standstill I can pull this 20% back up but it just drops back down / it's like the travel gets sucked back down best way I can describe it . Must be air leek I'd say cousing this to pull travel back down . Trying to identify just what is doing what to course this then I a order new seals if needed


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

Rick Draper said:


> Must have a blocked transfer port then.


Ok where/what side of the fork is that transfer port ?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

2013megaAM said:


> Ok where/what side of the fork is that transfer port ?


Airside, about 2-3" up the stanchion from the bottom. Requires lowers off and airspring removed to check its blocked or not.

sometimes you can displace the blockage as its only grease blocking it. Stretching the fork to full extension with no air in the air chamber is usually enough.

When you refitted the lowers did you do so with the air and damper rods fully extended ?


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

Rick Draper said:


> Airside, about 2-3" up the stanchion from the bottom. Requires lowers off and airspring removed to check its blocked or not.
> 
> sometimes you can displace the blockage as its only grease blocking it. Stretching the fork to full extension with no air in the air chamber is usually enough.
> 
> When you refitted the lowers did you do so with the air and damper rods fully extended ?


 ok that confirms that I did find/clear out that port hole as I took out the air side rode to clean and check so thanks for that . Damper side rode fully exstended and air rod not fully exstended. The air side rod was not fully exstended when I removed lowers so I figured that's how I should put lowers back on . I pushed the bolts on the bottom of the legs so I don't get a vacum effect aswell . One thing I did notice on the damper side was when testing the damper rod was ok and running smooth a little bit of oil/ air poped out the bottom of the damper but then stoped


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Based on the advice of a few key posters in this thread, I added a bit more air to my Pike, and it is really helping me to nail corners a lot better. I think by not having enough air in the fork it would allow too much weight to shift forward, which meant I had too much weight on the handlebars. This resulted in some handling that wasn't ideal. 

Now I just need to dial in the rebound and compression to suit my needs.


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

jonshonda said:


> Based on the advice of a few key posters in this thread, I added a bit more air to my Pike, and it is really helping me to nail corners a lot better. I think by not having enough air in the fork it would allow too much weight to shift forward, which meant I had too much weight on the handlebars. This resulted in some handling that wasn't ideal.
> 
> Now I just need to dial in the rebound and compression to suit my needs.


 yes I had this issue .i was following the chart on the legs 60-65 psi for me then I bumped into a pro rider we did a few runs and he pointed out that my forks looked to soft and was diveing to much so pumped up to 70psi 3 clicks of comresion and 6 /7 clicks rebound and WOW FEELS way way better than before love it )


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm haveing my 2014 pikes converted to coil via TF . Seems my air chamber side has been scratched inside the leg makeing a air leek between positive & negative chambers. So best way round this is to convert them to coil . I've been told by TF coil will make the pikes run a lot nicer and plusher so I hope this is true . TF said scratched inside leg is most likely crap getting in from dirty psi pump or somthing like that so beware of that guys . The coil conversion ant cheap £100 painfull


----------



## Marmoto (Sep 10, 2007)

Ratt said:


> If i really think about, I have had a warranty problem with every fork I've owned since '94 except for two forks. So most all forks have something going on. That said got 4 weeks in on my just warranty serviced Pike and the lockout has gone south again, probably a leaky dampener. If i wasn't so addicted to the lockout I just go with an open bath Avy upgrade.





2013megaAM said:


> ...........
> One thing I did notice on the damper side was when testing the damper rod was ok and running smooth a little bit of oil/ air poped out the bottom of the damper but then stoped


I had the same problem with mine. Eventually, after three or four hard rides, the charger damper oil leakage was big enough so the damper has a 2-3 cm initial travel inactive. It is very noticeable in lockout position.

It looks like it's a problem affecting a significant amount of Pikes (the older ones?). Craig (Avalanche), a well known suspension guru, sent some time ago a very illustrative post:



crseekins said:


> We see that most of the dampers are leaking that come here for our upgrades. It is not really a wear or damage issue but more of a design issue. *The cartridge rod when fully extended can wiggle back and forth within the cartridge cap bushing and the rebound piston ring seal/guide and cause oil to leak by the rod seal.* Because the rebound piston guides the other end of the rod and helps stop the "wiggle" it needs to be as good of a guide bushing as it is a piston seal. We use a wider and tighter fitting piston band to eliminate this problem when we install or cartridge upgrade valving and piston kit in the charger damper.


I tried to fix my faulty charger damper replacing the rod lower seal assembly. Nothing changed: same oil leakage. I would have sent my damper to Avalanche for a tuned charger upgrade... but I live in Spain and it would take too long. I'll wait for the self install kit.

I decided to buy a brand new charger damper assembly. Interestingly enough the new damper (I received it today) doesn't has the same "wiggle" play, it's almost unnoticeable. I didn't found any oil leakage stressing the damper by hand. Also the colour of the rod is different: the original is silver and the new one is slightly golden. Would this mean that RS has made some changes to solve this issue?????

The new charger is already mounted in my Pike. I will tell you whether the oil leaking problem is solved or not.


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

2013megaAM said:


> I'm haveing my 2014 pikes converted to coil via TF . Seems my air chamber side has been scratched inside the leg makeing a air leek between positive & negative chambers. So best way round this is to convert them to coil . I've been told by TF coil will make the pikes run a lot nicer and plusher so I hope this is true . TF said scratched inside leg is most likely crap getting in from dirty psi pump or somthing like that so beware of that guys . The coil conversion ant cheap £100 painfull


Interesting, different wt. coil for rider weight? Ti or steel coil? How much weight will the coil add? The fork should be noticeably plusher.


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

kneecap said:


> Interesting, different wt. coil for rider weight? Ti or steel coil? How much weight will the coil add? The fork should be noticeably plusher.


Coil will be a M spring for me at 11.5 stone . I didn't ask what kind of spring it is I just said ok just do it . Looking forward to trying them out as coil ) I am assumeing spring would be Ti for the £100 cost of it ? Should of asked TF but I was at work


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

I think it will be a steel spring, TI rear shock springs are over £100.


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

Rick Draper said:


> I think it will be a steel spring, TI rear shock springs are over £100.


Yeah think your right . Not to fussed about the extra waight to be honest .My bike came in a 29lbs so it's not going to hurt it


----------



## Pr3dator (Jul 14, 2013)

Hello! Usually a XC guy but want to build a All Mountain. I want a Pike RCT3 with 140mm as the trails where I live aint very demanding.

The question: what is the easiest/best way to shorten the fork (I wont do it myself)?
Will my local bike shop be able to do it or does I have to go to an official Rockshox service shop?
Will I loose the warranty by getting it shortened?
Does it matter if I buy a 150mm or 160mm fork? And will the weight be the same for both forks converted to 140mm?

(Edit. The bike will have 650B wheels)

Thanks in advance


----------



## challybert (Sep 5, 2014)

The question: what is the easiest/best way to shorten the fork (I wont do it myself)?
Will my local bike shop be able to do it or does I have to go to an official Rockshox service shop? LBS should be able to do it for you. Not difficult. You or LBS need to purchase the correct Air Shaft to reduce the travel to 140mm
Bikeman RockShox Pike Air Shaft Solo Air 150mm Travel 26/120mm Travel 29 A1
Will I loose the warranty by getting it shortened? No, warranty shouldn't be effected IMHO
Does it matter if I buy a 150mm or 160mm fork? And will the weight be the same for both forks converted to 140mm? No, doesn't matter if 150 or 160mm purchased. Think of which air shaft you'll want laying around or is more likely to sell easier (LBS will install 140 and remove the 150/160 shaft). If you want 140 now, you are more likely to contemplate 10mm more travel in the future vs. 20mm. Only you can know that though. Weight wise, no appreciable difference. .


----------



## Pr3dator (Jul 14, 2013)

challybert said:


> The question: what is the easiest/best way to shorten the fork (I wont do it myself)?
> Will my local bike shop be able to do it or does I have to go to an official Rockshox service shop? LBS should be able to do it for you. Not difficult. You or LBS need to purchase the correct Air Shaft to reduce the travel to 140mm
> Bikeman RockShox Pike Air Shaft Solo Air 150mm Travel 26/120mm Travel 29 A1
> Will I loose the warranty by getting it shortened? No, warranty shouldn't be effected IMHO
> Does it matter if I buy a 150mm or 160mm fork? And will the weight be the same for both forks converted to 140mm? No, doesn't matter if 150 or 160mm purchased. Think of which air shaft you'll want laying around or is more likely to sell easier (LBS will install 140 and remove the 150/160 shaft). If you want 140 now, you are more likely to contemplate 10mm more travel in the future vs. 20mm. Only you can know that though. Weight wise, no appreciable difference. .


Great answer - thank you very much!


----------



## 2013megaAM (Jun 12, 2013)

kneecap said:


> Interesting, different wt. coil for rider weight? Ti or steel coil? How much weight will the coil add? The fork should be noticeably plusher.


Got my coil 2014 pikes back today . WOW they are really really epic . Spring is M and TF is sending me a firmer spring due to M being to soft for me and my rideing . Parts used to do this conversion are from boxxers and lyrics


----------



## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

2013megaAM said:


> Got my coil 2014 pikes back today . WOW they are really really epic . Spring is M and TF is sending me a firmer spring due to M being to soft for me and my rideing . Parts used to do this conversion are from boxxers and lyrics


Do you have a link to a website for TF? I looked and couldn't find them.


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Captain Cobb said:


> Do you have a link to a website for TF? I looked and couldn't find them.


Here you go - Mountain Bike Suspension Servicing, Repair and Parts - TF Tuned :thumbsup:


----------



## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

Kiwiplague said:


> Here you go - Mountain Bike Suspension Servicing, Repair and Parts - TF Tuned :thumbsup:


Thanks!


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

any update on the new charger leak or not?


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

Did this work, as I am considering having 1 trimmed down.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

I've been riding a 160mm RC for the past two months. I think I'm the only one who thinks the fork is too harsh. I'm 75kg/165 pounds and in theory should be around the 65psi mark. However for trail riding I've been dropping it down to 40psi in order to get the suppleness I'm used to from previous forks. I'm talking slow xc speeds. I used a rental bike in Queenstown, ironically an identical bike to mine but 650b, and that felt fantastic at 75psi, but my speeds were much, much higher than my normal trail rides. 
So I'm wondering if the majority of Pike owners are quasi DH riders? Or my fork is odd. 
40psi
No tokens 
No compression damping


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

Mudguard25 said:


> I've been riding a 160mm RC for the past two months. I think I'm the only one who thinks the fork is too harsh. I'm 75kg/165 pounds and in theory should be around the 65psi mark. However for trail riding I've been dropping it down to 40psi in order to get the suppleness I'm used to from previous forks. I'm talking slow xc speeds. I used a rental bike in Queenstown, ironically an identical bike to mine but 650b, and that felt fantastic at 75psi, but my speeds were much, much higher than my normal trail rides.
> So I'm wondering if the majority of Pike owners are quasi DH riders? Or my fork is odd.
> 40psi
> No tokens
> No compression damping


Your description sounds exactly how my first two sets of Pikes acted when the check valve(air side) took a dump. First time I sent the forks back to SRAM-who probably only cleaned it, second time they sent me a whole new air-side cartridge/damper after I *****ed about it taking a month the first time.
I'm on my third set of Pikes, and if/when it happens this time, I'm gonna ask for the DP damping unit/cartridge, as its check valve doesn't have the same issue.
Anyway, really harsh feedback with the compression adjuster seemingly doing nothing, and on the first Pikes I had, I also was losing travel. NOT on the second set.
If possible, I'd advise riding your same trails on someone else's Pikes if you know someone with 'em, and see if they feel better. If they do, pull yours off and send 'em back to SRAM(they'll want you to do it through your LBS).
Having said all that, if you're simply blowing through your stroke, and THAT'S the reason why they're feeling harsh, throw the tokens in and see if they end up feeling better then.
Edit: To answer your question about the kind of riding I do, yes, I definitely ride faster technical/descents.


----------



## Marmoto (Sep 10, 2007)

paulki said:


> any update on the new charger leak or not?


My new charger damper is not leaking. I've done 4 hard rides (about 30 hours) since I installed it.


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

Hey Mud,
You're not the only one who thinks the pike is harsh. I'm 150 lbs, & run around 40 psi in mine. I seldom get the last inch & a half of travel & it starts to plunge on drops with less air than that. It did however seem to break in a bit after a couple months of trail ridding for me.
I still wouldn't classify it as a plush fork, just OK, I think that's all you can expect from an air sprung fork, unless, like you said, gotta be a very aggressive rather heavy rider...
Perhaps some co. will offer tuning options for this fork.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

kneecap said:


> Hey Mud,
> You're not the only one who thinks the pike is harsh. I'm 150 lbs, & run around 40 psi in mine. I seldom get the last inch & a half of travel & it starts to plunge on drops with less air than that. It did however seem to break in a bit after a couple months of trail ridding for me.
> I still wouldn't classify it as a plush fork, just OK, I think that's all you can expect from an air sprung fork, unless, like you said, gotta be a very aggressive rather heavy rider...
> Perhaps some co. will offer tuning options for this fork.


Avalanche. Best custom tune in the industry.


----------



## challybert (Sep 5, 2014)

jazzanova said:


> Avalanche. Best custom tune in the industry.


So I've heard. Just sent my Pike off to Craig this morning. Gonna give the Open Bath Kit a rip. I have high expectations.


----------



## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

Mudguard25 said:


> So I'm wondering if the majority of Pike owners are quasi DH riders? Or my fork is odd.
> 40psi
> No tokens
> No compression damping


Your fork must have a problem. I have been riding my Pike for a solid year now, DH rider in my case, including Queenstown mountains & Gondola Park and had nothing but great things to say. The fork is just amazing in my books and all I have ridden prior to that was coil forks.

I have also experimented with different settings since purchased and on same trails and even at higher PSI, the fork still provides good small bump feel. I am a heavy front wheel rider too.

My current setting which has been for a while:

85kg rider.
70 PSI
1 token
11 clicks rebound from slow to fast.
4 clicks compression.


----------



## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

challybert said:


> So I've heard. Just sent my Pike off to Craig this morning. Gonna give the Open Bath Kit a rip. I have high expectations.


Please keep us informed of this upgrade, it something I my think about next year. Being in Europe though, I would need to know about how easy it is to service, and if I can't do it, who can? I can't imagine sending my shock to the states just for that.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

For all of you that think the Pike rides harsh... you need to read this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/air-pike-lowers-psa-929695.html

85% of those issues are associated with that. The others would be about 10% damper issues/need for bleeding and 5% bushing tolerance issues.
Once sorted, there is no way you should feel the Pike is a harsh fork!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I haven't had the issues with harshness on my Pike. I'm running 70 psi with 3 tokens on my 29/ 140 and it ramps up nicely with good small bump compliance. I've got a decent amount of time on it in a variety of terrain with probably 1000+ miles in the last 6 months. I have not taken it up in higher elevation 5000+ ft. and that most likely contributed to the lower leg air differential. 

I do wish that these forks had oil bath bleed ports like my Totem had. The addition of those ports would help alleviate the air issue as well as making oil service easy! Hmm maybe I could add the bleed port screws used on the avid brake bleeders?


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

iguanabartola said:


> Your fork must have a problem. I have been riding my Pike for a solid year now, DH rider in my case, including Queenstown mountains & Gondola Park and had nothing but great things to say. The fork is just amazing in my books and all I have ridden prior to that was coil forks.
> 
> I have also experimented with different settings since purchased and on same trails and even at higher PSI, the fork still provides good small bump feel. I am a heavy front wheel rider too.
> 
> ...


Well, there you go.
Maybe the fork is tuned for, (like I said) heavier aggressive riders. You weigh about 188 lbs. if my conversion to Kg's is correct, & park riding as well.
So, how does your experience help lighter, less aggressive riders?


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Gman086 said:


> For all of you that think the Pike rides harsh... you need to read this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/air-pike-lowers-psa-929695.html
> 
> 85% of those issues are associated with that. The others would be about 10% damper issues/need for bleeding and 5% bushing tolerance issues.
> Once sorted, there is no way you should feel the Pike is a harsh fork!


If you read that tread, be sure to read the sceptical comments too. Those percentages are based on nothing. I'd advise against sticking anything in seals that are meant to keep dirt out.

If you have a harsh Pike, check sag and rebound settings first. Too much sag and/or too much rebound damping makes it incapable to fully absorb repeating hits, which feels harsh. It could also be a case of too much sag and trying to combat brake dive by adding lots of LSC. This can make the fork quite incapable to respond to fast hits.
If it's still harsh, check if the equalisation dimple between the positive and negative air chaimber is not clogged with grease. If I suspect that, I try to clear it by putting in a bit more pressure than normal for me and lower to normal levels afterwards.
A lot of Pikes came with little lubrication oil in the lowers and can become a bit sticky after an amount of riding time that feels short to the rider. Change the lubrication oil and add new oil up to the specced volume (not more!).

A Pike should feel fine without having to resort to measures Rock Shox never intended you to take.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Yeah I read the thread about burping, I tried it and it did nothing. I'm loath to keep sliding anything past the seals. I'm heading to Queenstown this weekend with my bike so I can compare directly from last week. The bike is second hand and the original owner is a good friend and lives in Queenstown. I'll be riding with him so he'll be as good a judge as any to see if it's any different to when he had it. Plus he's a bike mechanic. 
I think I'm comparing it to coil 66's and Travis which are really supple forks.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mudguard25 said:


> Yeah I read the thread about burping, I tried it and it did nothing. I'm loath to keep sliding anything past the seals. I'm heading to Queenstown this weekend with my bike so I can compare directly from last week. The bike is second hand and the original owner is a good friend and lives in Queenstown. I'll be riding with him so he'll be as good a judge as any to see if it's any different to when he had it. Plus he's a bike mechanic.
> I think I'm comparing it to coil 66's and Travis which are really supple forks.


Or you could just stop over-thinking it and bring it to me!

I do get a chuckle that you rate my 8 year old Travis more supple than a current Pike. But I'm sure I can fix the Pike for you.

I'll have the Mattoc fitted for comparison too.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

I was wondering if you would pop up! You can have a ride and I'll test the Mattoc. Hopefully the snow sods off for The Old Man Range. That will give the fork a good work out and give my brakes a good burn.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mudguard25 said:


> I was wondering if you would pop up! You can have a ride and I'll test the Mattoc. Hopefully the snow sods off for The Old Man Range. That will give the fork a good work out and give my brakes a good burn.


Mattoc is on, but I'd have to do some brake rotor swapping before I'll tackle ~1600m vertical on that bike.
The snow is going fast, but the road up becomes a muddy creek with snow-melt. So we can stick to lower altitudes this weekend.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

JeroenK said:


> Too much sag and/or too much rebound damping makes it incapable to fully absorb repeating hits, which feels harsh.


I found this to be exactly true.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> I found this to be exactly true.


But only on repeated hits. On single events too much sag and too much rebound damping won't make it harsh.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

A quick update. Rode Queenstown Bike Park on Sunday. Obviously at the low psi (45ish) was rubbish for the Bike Park 60-65 was perfect. However I rode some steep, rough and slow trails with Dougal and 65 is too harsh, use about 50% of the travel. It feels more like a mini DH fork (despite its light weight). 
And on a side note, the 650B version felt exactly the same in the Bike Park, I did not notice a difference between the different wheels other than mine braked better which could simply be a case of SLX vs the stock Formulas. 
Dougal can probably chime in with his thoughts on the fork.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mudguard25 said:


> A quick update. Rode Queenstown Bike Park on Sunday. Obviously at the low psi (45ish) was rubbish for the Bike Park 60-65 was perfect. However I rode some steep, rough and slow trails with Dougal and 65 is too harsh, use about 50% of the travel. It feels more like a mini DH fork (despite its light weight).
> And on a side note, the 650B version felt exactly the same in the Bike Park, I did not notice a difference between the different wheels other than mine braked better which could simply be a case of SLX vs the stock Formulas.
> Dougal can probably chime in with his thoughts on the fork.


Sure, why not.

First Mudguard got a burp from the lower legs. I wasn't looking but presuming it was the air-spring side. I got him to undo the lower bolts. IMO pushing anything down past/through the seals is a dangerous game.
Following the burp it was behaving like it should. Prior it was extending to full height with some force even with the air spring vented.

With it vented the bike was better but still feeling a but unbalanced. I dropped fork air pressure by literally a few psi and bought the back end up to give it an even natural frequency and front/rear feel. This felt heaps better and of course the firmer rear end forces the fork to work more.
I also noticed that Mudguards shock pump and mine give noticably different readings. Mine read higher by at least 5psi at fork pressures, possibly 10 at rear shock pressures.

I'd have liked to dial in the compression damping of the pike, but externally there's not a lot to do and we didn't have time to get the fork apart.

I was riding a brand new Mattoc on the same ride. It was a bit strange dialling in one fork with LSC, HSC and bottomout control and then trying to dial in another with only a lockout dial. When struggling to get full stroke that knob has to stay all the way open.

Mudguards bike and the one I was riding were setup very differently. The bike I was riding is a new one and the riding position needs a lot of tweaking (new stem, bars and rear shock on order). I was using the full stroke of the Mattoc on the way down, because it's a new test fork I was intentionally slamming bumps. The short swap onto Mudguards bike was so different in setup that I couldn't get a good indication of the forks feel.
It is interesting that it wasn't using more than half stroke though. I am presuming Mudguard didn't reset the travel o-ring after I was onboard.
I rode it down through a slow and technical rock garden which uses the vast majority of the stroke on any of my own forks.


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

I guess I stepped on somebodies toes with my last post.

@Gman086, so your rep comment says your percentages are from SRAM (next to a few explicities I will not post, real classy). What's your exact source, what's SRAM's advice, who did you get it from and how does SRAM know the cause of issues that riders do not report to them?

I recommend something different than your advice. If that's all you need to start swear at someone through a message, maybe you need to go for a bike ride to blow off some steam.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

"Too much sag and/or too much rebound damping makes it incapable to fully absorb repeating hits, which feels harsh."

"I found this to be exactly true." 

Like the Geico commercial... everyone knows that! After 55 pages of Pike tuning advice (with me even beating the "fast rebound and more psi" drum louder than anyone) My advice was going beyond the normal tuning issues to get at design issues that many are still unaware of... the biggest being the air entrapment in the lowers. Done with this thread... too many peeps re-inventing the wheel and I get a black eye for trying to help!

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Way to victimise yourself.

Somebody asked a question and I gave my take on it. If he read all the pages and put it all together himself, he would not have asked the question. I did not re-invent the wheel, I just repeated it as the answer to his question and pointed to the scepticism about the air in lowers theory and solution in that thread. You've got a pretty short fuse if that caused such a reaction.

If you have another view: no problem with me to agree to disagree and not feel offended. You might want to try that, as it makes both your life on the internet a lot better. Just man up and accept that others have different views, it's that simple. If you want to discuss the matter, better bring facts with a solid base.

I'm still curious about what SRAM itself said to you about it and how you got that information. If available, that might actually provide some extra information to the readers here.


----------



## morandi (Jun 20, 2008)

Just saw on Mitch Ropelato's bike check on vital, that he runs 3 bottomless tokens in his Pike 160mm 29er? Anybody try this?
Having trouble getting the small bump compliance I want without the fork getting too soft feeling.


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

Hi,
I just interesting if someone here using Avalanche Suspension Pike Open Bath Cartridge ?

Pike Cartridge and piston/valve revalve Kits

Thanks


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Don't want to wade though 55 pages...

Have any lighter riders, say around the 70kg/150lbs, compared running no tubeless token vs say just one? Would small bump sensitivity be almost the same? I'm assuming if anything it's better with no tokens?


----------



## OriginalDonk (Jul 8, 2009)

vadminm, have a look at this existing thread on the Avalanche mod options for the Pike. Good place to start.

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/avalanche-pike-charger-upgrade-shim-stack-kit-901338.html


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> Don't want to wade though 55 pages...
> 
> Have any lighter riders, say around the 70kg/150lbs, compared running no tubeless token vs say just one? Would small bump sensitivity be almost the same? I'm assuming if anything it's better with no tokens?


im about 130 lb and run 1 token. if i dont have a token in there, I bottom out hard on drops. If i increase pressure to prevent the bottom out without the token, the small bump is harsh as you would imagine.

small bump sensitivity will not be the same because a fork with a token will run lower pressures than one that doesnt have tokens if comparing the same bottom out.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Ok, well I'm running the advised PSI as it gives me a sag that mags sense and stops the fork from feeling wallowy. I don't have trails that have anything like standard drops, and the most I've ever used on my fork is 70% travel. So while I'm not keen to lower the PSI, is there any logic / benefit for me adding a token?


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> Ok, well I'm running the advised PSI as it gives me a sag that mags sense and stops the fork from feeling wallowy. I don't have trails that have anything like standard drops, and the most I've ever used on my fork is 70% travel. So while I'm not keen to lower the PSI, is there any logic / benefit for me adding a token?


If you're only using 70% of your travel now, I don't really see a point in installing tokens. They're made for preventing harsh bottom outs and since you're not bottoming, there shouldn't be a point... I guess you could install a token and reduce air pressure to keep using 70% travel and increase small bump sensitivity, but I'm suspicious of your pressure if you're only getting 70% travel or you ride really smooth trails.

Also, if you have 30% travel remaining wouldn't you want to use all of it? I don't trust the pressures on the sticker since all gauges provide inconsistent readings but if you're getting the right amount of sag then I guess you're alright. I usually add rebound damping to get rid of the wallow instead of increasing pressure.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

mikodipo said:


> If you're only using 70% of your travel now, I don't really see a point in installing tokens. They're made for preventing harsh bottom outs and since you're not bottoming, there shouldn't be a point... I guess you could install a token and reduce air pressure to keep using 70% travel and increase small bump sensitivity, but I'm suspicious of your pressure if you're only getting 70% travel or you ride really smooth trails.
> 
> Also, if you have 30% travel remaining wouldn't you want to use all of it? I don't trust the pressures on the sticker since all gauges provide inconsistent readings but if you're getting the right amount of sag then I guess you're alright. I usually add rebound damping to get rid of the wallow instead of increasing pressure.


Recommended PSI is 65 also 60 also feels good. But 55 or less feels wallowy; poor support in mid-stroke and makes me feel like I might go over the handlebars. Even cranking up the LSC doesn't alleviate it. that's why I'm not keen to lower it. And yah I take you point about the lack of 'need' for a token given no clear evidence of bottoming out, it was more of a curiosity about improving small bump compliance by using less air.


----------



## vadimn (Dec 25, 2010)

OriginalDonk said:


> vadminm, have a look at this existing thread on the Avalanche mod options for the Pike. Good place to start.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/avalanche-pike-charger-upgrade-shim-stack-kit-901338.html


Thanks man.


----------



## johndeere (May 5, 2010)

I just tried the "lower leg service" on the 2014 pike, can't seem to pull the stanchions off. I did the "light knock" with a rubber hammer on the slightly loosened screws but still with a lot of pulling no result. There was oil coming out of the "drive side" so it seems that i got one side right - but what about the other one?!?!?!?!


----------



## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

Make sure all the air is out. Best use a core extractor on the valve. I have un-done the bolts fully. Then re screw them in 4 or 5 turns. You may just need to tap them harder. Once the bolts are removed you should get oil from both sides. One a lot more then the other. Just give it a good tug.


----------



## johndeere (May 5, 2010)

I hit harder now, now they came off


----------



## waveslayer (Nov 17, 2014)

How often are you guys switching your pike to full open and pedal mode? I have it on my new Canfield Balance, love it!


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

waveslayer said:


> How often are you guys switching your pike to full open and pedal mode? I have it on my new Canfield Balance, love it!


I mostly run it open and only switch it to the middle or sometimes the closed mode on longer sustained climbs when I'm in and out of the saddle but not really that often. I like the suspension more active mostly.


----------



## waveslayer (Nov 17, 2014)

manitou2200 said:


> I mostly run it open and only switch it to the middle or sometimes the closed mode on longer sustained climbs when I'm in and out of the saddle but not really that often. I like the suspension more active mostly.


That's what I was thinking, I love to climb so I lock it out a lot then move it to full open on the descends. How about hitting some small hits? Pedal mode better for that?


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

waveslayer said:


> How often are you guys switching your pike to full open and pedal mode? I have it on my new Canfield Balance, love it!


When I had a Pike I always left it in the open mode.


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

^ personally I rarely use the middle position. IMHO it's useless, at least for where I ride. Way too much damping for me. 90% full open. 10% closed for extended climbs, fire roads etc.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

^Thats pretty much it. I'm probably running 90-95% of the time open.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

waveslayer said:


> How often are you guys switching your pike to full open and pedal mode? I have it on my new Canfield Balance, love it!


I never switch it, I like the active suspension. Any of you guys using a token in your Pike. I may have to try one in my fork.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm currently using 3 tokens on my 29-140 by since I've upped the spring psi I'm going to pull one out, I just don't need as much ramp up with the fork at higher psi.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

manitou2200 said:


> I'm currently using 3 tokens on my 29-140 by since I've upped the spring psi I'm going to pull one out, I just don't need as much ramp up with the or at higher psi.


I have 160mm on my Canfield Balance, running recommended psi and I'm thinking I need a little more ramp up at the end of travel. I'll go with 1 token and same psi, give it a try.....after this rain stops.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

You shouldn't need more than one with that 27.5"-160. The reason the 29" and especially 140 travel 29" fork needs more tokens is because the spring volume is larger and there is less travel to compress the larger volume of air. With your 27.5 the spring volume is smaller than the 29" and you are using more travel to compress the smaller volume of air, so you should gain more support with less tokens. I think what most of us are finding is to run less sag with higher pressure. You then gain more mid stroke support and ending stroke ramp up but you are still able to use all of the travel. I'm still playing around with it. I'll probably still remove one of my three tokens. Then dial in the ramp up with the air pressure. These Pikes are pretty supple!

My next fork is going to be the MRP Stage. I'll put one on my new Spider Comp. It has tune on the fly ramp control and they've also got me hooked up on the bro deal!!


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

manitou2200 said:


> You shouldn't need more than one with that 27.5"-160. The reason the 29" and especially 140 travel 29" fork needs more tokens is because the spring volume is larger and there is less travel to compress the larger volume of air. With your 27.5 the spring volume is smaller than the 29" and you are using more travel to compress the smaller volume of air, so you should gain more support with less tokens. I think what most of us are finding is to run less sag with higher pressure. You then gain more mid stroke support and ending stroke ramp up but you are still able to use all of the travel. I'm still playing around with it. I'll probably still remove one of my three tokens. Then dial in the ramp up with the air pressure. These Pikes are pretty supple!
> 
> My next fork is going to be the MRP Stage. I'll put one on my new Spider Comp. It has tune on the fly ramp control and they've also got me hooked up on the bro deal!!


So 1 token and a little less sag? How bout 1 token and the same sag I have now? The token just ramps up the end stroke, correct?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I'd experiment, do as you stated here and test it out. It might be just right for you. If you need more support add some air but I would think one token will be plenty.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

manitou2200 said:


> I'd experiment, do as you stated here and test it out. It might be just right for you. If you need more support add some air but I would think one token will be plenty.


Thanks for the input, I'll fiddle with it and try the 1 token and same psi/sag. I'll post up my findings. Thanks again.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I hope it's helpful! Good tuning and please post your results and specs.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

manitou2200 said:


> I hope it's helpful! Good tuning and please post your results and specs.


Oh yeah most definitly helpful. It's nice to get some conformation about things you want to try. I'll post up my findings for sure.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I brought this up a few months ago but am still having an issue with my dual air not locking down in the lower position. I thought it might get solved with a full rebuild this Fall but it hasn't. I believe it has been coming on slowly and has gotten worse, even with a full turn of the adjustment knob and pushing the fork down hard several times, it will only lower about 1/2" consistently (the amount of lowering seems to vary). I know when it was new it would lower the full 30mm with no inconsistency. I'll have my LBS open it up again and have them contact SRAM and ask what are the issues and I will buy a new air spring if required, but just wanted to put this out there if anyone else had encountered a similar issue and knew the cause. I'll report back when we figure it out.


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

Preston67 said:


> I will buy a new air spring if required,


So how much is a good air spring going for these-days?
Do you know what weight air spring you need?
I'm personally in need of installing heavier springs in my forks, and I'm trying to decide whether to stick with coils, or swap over(AGAIN) to air springs. The only thing that scares me is just how much air springs have gone up price-wise this last year.
I bought my current forks just a few months ago, so of course they're the new DUAL-SPRING set up. And that obviously means I gotta buy FOUR springs in all, 'cuz in addition to the two compression springs, you have the rebound spring, and also the NEGATIVE AIR spring.
First the fricken Russians corner the market on titanium, so if you needed any serious quantity you had to deal with those fuggin booger-eaters.
Then the Chinese cornered the market on Heavy Air AND titanium, so they got you coming AND going.
Now I hear the Guamanians..THE G-U-A-M-A-N-I-A-N-S apparently paid someone to do a resource-fractile study on all the land previously 'leased' by the Navy, and magically they found something like 200-MILLION TONS of unfiltered heavy air just sitting stagnant in all the dormant lava tunnels that traverse under Guam itself.
If the Navy would've never left, they would've never known.
But I digress... so NOW with GUAM becoming the BIGGEST PLAYER in the heavy-air market-OVERNIGHT- the price is gonna go UP. WHY you ask? BECAUSE:
They've also decided to use the friggen METRIC SYSTEM to measure spring-rate on ALL air springs manufactured AFTER June 2003, but [as we all know] there's no way in HECK the date code and/or the lot/batch number is still gonna be visible after ALL that time, so even if the spring rate IS stamped on your air spring, you have NO idea whether it's metric or imperial unless you ALSO can see the date code!!
And as we all know, unless your suspension tuner/shop actually spent the $$$$ to buy a REAL air spring dyno/calibrator as opposed to those cheap-junk piles Harbor Freight sells, you'll end up wasting $175 on having your air spring calibrated.
Sorry for kinda going sideways there..
I guess I made up MY mind. I'm sticking with coils as opposed to stepping up to AIR SPRINGS. 
If anyone wants/needs any either never used, or 'lightly' used AIR SPRINGS(.85,90,95,1.0kgm/s-metric -or- 1.5floz/s, 1.65floz/s, 1.95floz/s, 2.2floz/s -imperial-)..
I'll sell all the under 1.0-kgm/s for $33-per psi, and the 1kgm/s AIR SPRING for $39-per psi. Keep in mind that these are ALL *GREEN* AIR so you KNOW they were made HERE in the good 'ole USofA(or Mexico), and NOT BROWN air, which DOESN'T obviously come with ANY USDA/USDOT compliance stamp(and lets face it, the first time you get a whiff of that ****, you KNOW why it's brown).
You can PM me through here.

I kid because I CARE!
ut::thumbsup:


----------



## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Hey guys,

Just picked up a 29'' 130mm Pike. Only ridden once so far, but first impressions are that its a major improvement over my 2013 Fox 32 120mm. Anyway, quick question, I've noticed that when the bike is unloaded, and I pick up the handlebars (and consequently front wheel) to move it here or there, the fork "releases" or drops a few mm. I haven't measured it exactly, but its enough to feel it in the bars. Is this normal? Its like the fork sinks and won't recover those last 2-5mm unless I lift the front end of the bike. 

Thanks.


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

I'm not sure if it is normal, but mine does it (26" 150 solo air) and it seems to be reported commonly


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Seems to be a pretty normal thing with Rockshox solo air forks (not just the Pike). Something to do with the solo air cart, but I can't remember at the moment what the technical explanation for it was. Nothing to worry about though.


----------



## pmanfred (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks Yokev. I needed a good laugh. Merry Christmas


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The solo-air has a dimple in it that serves to equalize the negative spring. When the fork fully extends, this happens. When the fork is compressed, such as under it's own sag, it does not. Doesn't affect riding. If you really want to see the effect, let down some air out of the main chamber and the fork will "sink" down, then pull it back up and you'll see how it equalizes. It does this while you are riding so many times that the negative spring stays pretty constant and there is no "loss of travel".


----------



## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Thank you for your replies.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Stupid question, but how often should one service (replace dust seals and change the oil bath) the Pike when averaging 10-15 miles a week? I've had mine for about 8 months now and am thinking it is time but obviously don't know for sure. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I have heard that after 50 hours the lowers should be serviced. So I reckon your upper limit of 15 miles per week for 8 months is very close to 50 hours. So I'd be doing them now.



Gouda Cheez said:


> Stupid question, but how often should one service (replace dust seals and change the oil bath) the Pike when averaging 10-15 miles a week? I've had mine for about 8 months now and am thinking it is time but obviously don't know for sure.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Stupid question, but how often should one service (replace dust seals and change the oil bath) the Pike when averaging 10-15 miles a week? I've had mine for about 8 months now and am thinking it is time but obviously don't know for sure.


I'd do it now. RS (and everyone else for that matter) usually specify a number of hours for basic servicing, 30-50 hours of riding seems pretty normal for most brands, so you must be pretty close, if not slightly overdue for a lower leg refresh.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

That is what I figured. What all needs to be done? Just the oil bath change or do I need to switch out the seals and the foam rings? The lower leg service seems doable for a pretty novice mech. like me. When it comes time for a full rebuild type of service (bleed, etc.) I'll be looking to send it out. I've been reading that should be done every 200 hours or so (every 1.5 years or so for me) - true?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/farfuture/MjvNaM2KmoBVMCac0pXYJzzIPhMUeW7NjOxeh25VkMY/mtime:1410218750/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen_0000000004461_rev_b_2014_-_present_pike_0.pdf
Have a read through, has all the steps you need to do and also what tools you will need. Most Rockshox forks are very easy to do a lower leg/seal service, just take your time and you'll be fine. If you get the basic Pike service kit it should have the foam rings and seals in it, all you need is more oil for the splash bath lube.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

That most definitely helps - thank you. I am fairly confident the fork came with a seal kit and I picked up oil months ago thinking I was going to do this much sooner so I should have everything I need.


----------



## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

Can I change a 29er 160 or 150mm Dual Position Pike to 29er 140mm Dual Position by changing the Air Shaft to the 650B 160mm Dual Position.


----------



## tokarsky268 (Nov 16, 2013)

My solo air won't fully extend. Without being on it, it sags down to 10%. I run my pressures around 62. It's holding at the same pressure. Anyone else seen this? It doesn't bother me, but if something needs to be fixed, I certainly want to get it taken care of under warranty.


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

tokarsky268 said:


> My solo air won't fully extend. Without being on it, it sags down to 10%. I run my pressures around 62. It's holding at the same pressure. Anyone else seen this? It doesn't bother me, but if something needs to be fixed, I certainly want to get it taken care of under warranty.


This has been covered many times actually. Let all the air out the fork and cycle it through several times. Pump the air back and your fork should now fully extend.


----------



## tokarsky268 (Nov 16, 2013)

dreys said:


> This has been covered many times actually. Let all the air out the fork and cycle it through several times. Pump the air back and your fork should now fully extend.


Cycle it through meaning compress it a couple times with the pressure out? Sorry for the likely stupid question. Appreciate your help.


----------



## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

softbatch said:


> Can I change a 29er 160 or 150mm Dual Position Pike to 29er 140mm Dual Position by changing the Air Shaft to the 650B 160mm Dual Position.


I'm pretty sure you can only go from 160 to 150 and vice versa on the DPA. The sram spare parts list seems to confirm this.


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

tokarsky268 said:


> Cycle it through meaning compress it a couple times with the pressure out? Sorry for the likely stupid question. Appreciate your help.


See my reply above, read the entire thread...

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/pike-2014-a-861503-29.html#post11015622


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

After reading 'most' of the thread, I am still not sure what is the correct procedure to remove the 'trapped' air.
(seems my Pike 160 / 26 has the symptoms - cannot get it fully compressed after all air out, riding harsh at lower than recommended pressure.)
I dont want to stick anything in the dust seals.
Can anyone describe the exact steps and / or give a link?
Thanks in advance,
Paul


----------



## waveslayer (Nov 17, 2014)

Gman086 said:


> A lot of the suggested setups on this thread are off base. IMHO The Pike needs higher air pressures to really come into its own and prevent dive. I run 20% sag. LSC set right in the middle. Back off the rebound even more (only 4-6 clicks in); that really helps smooth out some of the harshness from having a higher spring rate (air pressure in this case). And do NOT go by how it feels in the parking lot - I would never set up my open bath forks this way but that's how the Charger damper works best. I'm a perfectionist - trust me, you are NOT doing it wrong! Everything you state is on the right track and jazza's comments were good too. Also RS really did their homework regarding the HSC and HSR and I feel it's a GOOD thing they are not adjustable on the Pike as they are dialed!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


I took your advice and set my sag at 20%, 5 clicks of rebound and oh my! It feels like a brand new bike. I live it! Thanks for the info you were spot on.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

waveslayer said:


> I took your advice and set my sag at 20%, 5 clicks of rebound and oh my! It feels like a brand new bike. I live it! Thanks for the info you were spot on.


Either of you running any tokens in your Pike?


----------



## waveslayer (Nov 17, 2014)

Bent Wheel said:


> Either of you running any tokens in your Pike?


No tokens. I'm 193 lbs without gear. I had some travel to go. If this helps you at all


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

waveslayer said:


> No tokens. I'm 193 lbs without gear. I had some travel to go. If this helps you at all


I'm about 190 geared up, and bottomed a few times on some drops I hit. This is with 30% sag.


----------



## waveslayer (Nov 17, 2014)

Bent Wheel said:


> I'm about 190 geared up, and bottomed a few times on some drops I hit. This is with 30% sag.


I was originally at 27 or so. Went to 20. Man its like a Cadillac


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

waveslayer said:


> I was originally at 27 or so. Went to 20. Man its like a Cadillac


Still feels good on the low speed stuff with less sag? I'm pretty anal, it has to be "perfect" you know.


----------



## waveslayer (Nov 17, 2014)

Bent Wheel said:


> Still feels good on the low speed stuff with less sag? I'm pretty anal, it has to be "perfect" you know.


Yes it did. That was where I was having issues myself. I figured I try it since Gman086, was insisted on that set up. I finally tried it and on the small stuff it was smoother for me not as rough. Made my bike ride even better.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

waveslayer said:


> Yes it did. That was where I was having issues myself. I figured I try it since Gman086, was insisted on that set up. I finally tried it and on the small stuff it was smoother for me not as rough. Made my bike ride even better.


I may try this before I try a token. Did you have to adjust the LSC or rebound after changing the air pressure?


----------



## waveslayer (Nov 17, 2014)

PM sent


----------



## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

I took the advice of "higher pressure/less sag" too, and it seems to be working for me. I have a 29'' 130mm that came from the factory with 3 tokens. After the first ride at around 25% sag I was "meh" about it. Fork felt somewhat harsh, yet divey. I removed 1 token (now have 2 installed), set sag at about 20% and the fork improved from "meh" to "wow!" Huge improvement, in my opinion.


----------



## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I just got a pike 29 rct3 set at 120mm for a hardtail I'm building up. It weighs in at 1985g which is about 100g more than it's listed on RS's site. Is the airshaft for the 120 really 100g heavier than the 140 because I can't think of any other reason why it'd be that much overweight.

Not a big deal I guess but anyone else get similar weights out of there's? Satisfy my curiosity.


----------



## dreys (Jan 21, 2014)

rusty904 said:


> I just got a pike 29 rct3 set at 120mm for a hardtail I'm building up. It weighs in at 1985g which is about 100g more than it's listed on RS's site. Is the airshaft for the 120 really 100g heavier than the 140 because I can't think of any other reason why it'd be that much overweight.
> 
> Not a big deal I guess but anyone else get similar weights out of there's? Satisfy my curiosity.


According to RS, "...Weight based on 265mm tapered aluminum steerer, Solo Air". I also believe they weight forks without an axle. Maybe they also weight them without oil?


----------



## challybert (Sep 5, 2014)

rusty904 said:


> I just got a pike 29 rct3 set at 120mm for a hardtail I'm building up. It weighs in at 1985g which is about 100g more than it's listed on RS's site. Is the airshaft for the 120 really 100g heavier than the 140 because I can't think of any other reason why it'd be that much overweight.
> 
> Not a big deal I guess but anyone else get similar weights out of there's? Satisfy my curiosity.


No way it's 100g heavier (that's nearly a quarter pound). We're talking about a 2cm piece of aluminium difference. The shorter air shaft would be marginally lighter.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

challybert said:


> No way it's 100g heavier (that's nearly a quarter pound). We're talking about a 2cm piece of aluminium difference. The shorter air shaft would be marginally lighter.


Agreed.

Possible explanations:
1. RS' quoted number is slightly optimistic

2. rusty904's scale is not accurate

3. rusty904 needs to stop using a gram scale and just ride.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ColinL said:


> 3. rusty904 needs to stop using a gram scale and just ride.


Aww, come-on. There are entire websitse on the internet which would implode if everyone did that.


----------



## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Aww, come-on. There are entire websitse on the internet which would implode if everyone did that.


Like I said not a big deal, just a point of curiosity. It's going on the bike regardless where the weight will soon be forgotten. 100g is a lot relatively speaking and this is a pretty high end product. Just wondering about tolerances and what not. Scale has proven to be pretty darn accurate btw.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I'm finding the higher pressures are working better for me, this also coupled with a slower rebound than I'd been using. I do find however that I can't run LSC beyond a click or two. The increase in pressure with significant LSC is just too much all up. I should point out that this is riding with a comprised left hand due to injury, but still.

...I hasten to add that I've just done its first 50hr service, so maybe its worth retrying increased LSC.


----------



## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I promised a follow up post on my dual position air not setting down properly into the low travel mode. It sounds obvious and kind of dumb and I thought I had checked this clearly - I had built a remote handlebar travel adjuster, and while it worked well all summer it deteriorated a little bit and wasn't allowing the knob to turn all the way to the low position. Like I said I thought I had totally disconnected it and checked this thoroughly but I guess not. Now that I am turning the knob the full way it is working correctly. However I do have to re-engineer my travel adjuster now, this Pike knob requires a lot of degrees of twist. I previously had this setup on a Fox and it was much easier to make it work as it required about 20 degrees less twist. The tricky part is getting enough spring tension to truly pull it into place. 

IOW, no one else with a Pike fork will have this problem, just turn the knob correctly.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I wanted to follow up on the lower leg service. It went well and was much much easier than I expected. I would encourage anyone that is a noob like me and hesitant to do it to go ahead and go for it. Only recommendation is to make sure you purchase the seal press socket and a downhill lever - really glad I followed ALL of the instructions and did that as it made things pretty damn easy. 

The good news is that there WAS fluid in my Pike unlike what some others have been reporting on and off with their new Pikes. Bad news is that my foam rings weren't looking good. They were gunked up and relatively dry. Either way... should be good to go now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Well, after 2 seasons of use (been sitting for 2 months though) and maybe at least a dozen days at the DH resort, more oil came out of the damper leg than should have. Oil bath is barely enough to drip out when you pop the legs open, but a good 20-40cc or so came out, way too much and it must have blown by the seals on the damper. The bladder looks fine, no tears or issues when cycling it, but a little air does seem to be in the damper too.

Purpose of taking damper out was to package it up for sending to Avalanche.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

Well, I took waveslayers advice and added some air to my Pike, now running 25% sag and it does feel a lot better, not bottoming on the hits I was bottoming on before. Thanx guys.


----------



## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

That's pretty much how I set mine up way back when they were first available. Between that and a CCDBair in the back, I was likening my Prime to a magic carpet, just glided over everything.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

Optimus said:


> That's pretty much how I set mine up way back when they were first available. Between that and a CCDBair in the back, I was likening my Prime to a magic carpet, just glided over everything.


I'm running the same set up, and yeah, super smooth. I likey.


----------



## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Well, after 2 seasons of use (been sitting for 2 months though) and maybe at least a dozen days at the DH resort, more oil came out of the damper leg than should have. Oil bath is barely enough to drip out when you pop the legs open, but a good 20-40cc or so came out, way too much and it must have blown by the seals on the damper. The bladder looks fine, no tears or issues when cycling it, but a little air does seem to be in the damper too.
> 
> Purpose of taking damper out was to package it up for sending to Avalanche.


You're electing for the Carger upgrade over the Avy cart? I like the idea of the open bath/ Avy cart setup for my Pike. It has felt "sticky" since day one, and I think the open bath splash lubing will alleviate that (not to mention the Avy cart's obvious superior performance!).


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jncarpenter said:


> You're electing for the Carger upgrade over the Avy cart? I like the idea of the open bath/ Avy cart setup for my Pike. It has felt "sticky" since day one, and I think the open bath splash lubing will alleviate that (not to mention the Avy cart's obvious superior performance!).


Craig said both will feel about the same, since they get the same internal pistons due to the 20mm cart size, if it's an RCT3 pike you get the high-speed adjustment in addition to low-speed, and with the charger you obviously get the easily-adjustable knobs, as opposed to the screwdriver style on the avy. Craig did say the charger would have to be bled more often due to the nature of the charger, but the nitrogen/air sleeve that is slated to come out later may address this somewhat too. I'm going to get the cart modded to save a little money and just bleed the charger each season that I have it I reckon. Saves a little weight too. Thinking about the intended usage of the bike, I think this will work well. I've had the avy cart and it was definitely nice, I even revalved it with good results when I lost a bunch of weight. I don't think you'll go wrong with the cart at all. One thing I was thinking about was the seals though, I don't believe the pike seals are the circlip/snap ring style, but more fox style, so I don't know how those will respond to the pressure of an open-bath, although it seems that craig tries to do everything with hydraulics rather than ramping up pressure like older marzocchis and the such with oil level adjustments.


----------



## sgtjim57 (Aug 14, 2009)

Brand new Pike owner here, have only two rides and I really like what I have "not" felt. Man this thing is so smooth. Best fork I have ever ridden.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I wanted to follow up on the lower leg service. It went well and was much much easier than I expected. I would encourage anyone that is a noob like me and hesitant to do it to go ahead and go for it. Only recommendation is to make sure you purchase the seal press socket and a downhill lever - really glad I followed ALL of the instructions and did that as it made things pretty damn easy.
> 
> The good news is that there WAS fluid in my Pike unlike what some others have been reporting on and off with their new Pikes. Bad news is that my foam rings weren't looking good. They were gunked up and relatively dry. Either way... should be good to go now.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hi,
I am going to do the service myself and 'a bit afraid to' (never did it) 
Do you mind to drop a link onto the step-by-step procedure YOU used (there are too many in youtube), AND what and where to purchase "the seal press socket and a downhill lever"?
Thanks a bunch in advance!
Paul


----------



## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

https://www.sram.com/service

Service manuals for all things Sram/Rockshox.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Hey Paul - I bought the tire lever (Pedro's) and seal socket from JensonUSA. Hope these links work - I am copy pasting from my cell phone.

http://m.jensonusa.com/Pedros-Downhill-Tire-Lever

http://m.jensonusa.com/Fork-Suspension-Tools/Rockshox-Seal-Installation-Tool -- Make sure you get the 35mm option.

For a guide I didn't use any type of video... only the RS service manual that is listed here: https://www.sram.com/service/rockshox/all

Hope this helps.


----------



## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Craig said both will feel about the same, since they get the same internal pistons due to the 20mm cart size, if it's an RCT3 pike you get the high-speed adjustment in addition to low-speed, and with the charger you obviously get the easily-adjustable knobs, as opposed to the screwdriver style on the avy. Craig did say the charger would have to be bled more often due to the nature of the charger, but the nitrogen/air sleeve that is slated to come out later may address this somewhat too. I'm going to get the cart modded to save a little money and just bleed the charger each season that I have it I reckon. Saves a little weight too. Thinking about the intended usage of the bike, I think this will work well. I've had the avy cart and it was definitely nice, I even revalved it with good results when I lost a bunch of weight. I don't think you'll go wrong with the cart at all. One thing I was thinking about was the seals though, I don't believe the pike seals are the circlip/snap ring style, but more fox style, so I don't know how those will respond to the pressure of an open-bath, although it seems that craig tries to do everything with hydraulics rather than ramping up pressure like older marzocchis and the such with oil level adjustments.


Interesting...thanks for the info!


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Thanks to Gman086 I tried 20% sag today and man, I loved it. Biggest things I noticed were improved small bump sensitivity and just simply a feeling of control. The settings were 20% 83psi 5 clicks in (from full fast) no lsc no token and I weigh 100kg kitted up.

160mm RC pike on a giant reign.

It felt great for most of the tracks where there were small drops into rough, flat corners and bermed and lots of roots. However when I went into a really rough straight section such as roots and braking bumps, the fork got overwhelmed especially at faster speeds. It felt exactly like it was packing up as it got rougher after subsequent hits. But honestly, my rebound was fastttttt, only 5 clicks in at 83psi I don't want any faster rebound but want to improve its straight line rough performance. I tried a little slower rebound on this section and it felt better, but all the other parts felt worse.

I normally run 1 token, 70psi, 25% sag, 7 clicks in rebound, 9 clicks (pike rc) lsc. This had less control on every part of the track but this setup performed better at straight line roughness.

Any set up tips? 

I know Gman was saying 20% sag and 5 clicks in. But everyone will have different air pressures so don't just settle on 5 clicks and think its the perfect setting.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

of the 12 or so clicks of LSC, I think keep all your initial settings, but try the lsc midway. decrease click by click *if* its too firm. I think a key point with the recommendation is to try all these settings at once.



TomMtb said:


> Thanks to Gman086 I tried 20% sag today and man, I loved it. Biggest things I noticed were improved small bump sensitivity and just simply a feeling of control. The settings were 20% 83psi 5 clicks in (from full fast) no lsc no token and I weigh 100kg kitted up.
> 
> 160mm RC pike on a giant reign.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

TomMtb said:


> Thanks to Gman086 I tried 20% sag today and man, I loved it. Biggest things I noticed were improved small bump sensitivity and just simply a feeling of control. The settings were 20% 83psi 5 clicks in (from full fast) no lsc no token and I weigh 100kg kitted up.
> 
> 160mm RC pike on a giant reign.
> 
> ...


I tried 20%, was a little to firm for my liking, 25% seems better and left all my other settings the same as before. From my experience, I have found that you should make only 1 adjustment at a time, that way you know then what works and what doesn't.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I originally set up the puke for 30% sag that I used on most trail and am forks but thanks to suggestions of some here realized that was not optimal. I just started playing with air pressure and then riding without really checking sag. I bumped it up 20 psi above my 30% sag and the dropped it 5 psi. I'll have to check sag again to see where it's at.


----------



## challybert (Sep 5, 2014)

manitou2200 said:


> I originally set up the *puke* for 30% sag that I used on most trail and am forks but thanks to suggestions if some here realized that was not optimal. I just started playing with air pressure and then riding without really checking sag. I bumped it up 20 psi above my 30% sag and the dropped it 5 psi. I'll have to check sag again to see where it's at.


Ha, the "puke". Have a feeling that'll go viral around here.  I can just see it now across MTBR, "I got rid of my Puke and bought the Fox 36".


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Haha! I'll leave it for the humor aspect but it was one of the many handheld typos from me! 😁


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I am anxious to ride the MRP Stage on my Spider Comp this next year., not to take away from the Puke!!😄


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Bent Wheel said:


> Well, I took waveslayers advice and added some air to my Pike, now running 25% sag and it does feel a lot better, not bottoming on the hits I was bottoming on before. Thanx guys.


why didn't you put a token in and run the same sag. more pressure means less small bump sensitivity and faster rebound


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I just did the lower leg service (although I didn't change out the seals or foam rings), and buttered up the air chamber. 

Still should bleed the charger.


----------



## protyne (Oct 24, 2011)

Just to share burping made my 2014 Pike 150mm 650B feel plusher now at higher pressure. Previously it felt harsh and sketchy at 25% sag / 45PSI / middle rebound damping. My Anthem had a SID 120mm and the front felt more planted and plusher over same trail. Pike on Bronson felt sketchy and harsh. In my group we had another 3 other Pike that felt similar to my SID at least around the carpark lot.

Burped both seals on the Pike and now I need 70psi to achieve 25% sag (within RS's sticker range for my weight of 175lb) and bouncing around in the lot felt familiar again to the Anthem/SID.

I don't know what is broken causing the harshness as some has suggested there should be no need to burp at all. I'm familiar with setting sag and rebound but burping somehow seemed to help.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

What is the burping procedure without inserting anything through the seals - any suggestions? TX in advance


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Turn bike upside down after releasing all the air first, Undo nut on bottom of the leg. Done.


----------



## protyne (Oct 24, 2011)

Mudguard25 said:


> Turn bike upside down after releasing all the air first, Undo nut on bottom of the leg. Done.


Will this also cause a vacuum similar to letting air out via the seals with no air in fork? Thanks!


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Really need some help. Currently on a riding trip and riding reallllly chunky terrain big square hits galore. But the pikes aren't handling it at all, I'm at 20% sag no tokens and have tried 3 clicks in from full fast, 4 clicks in, 5 clicks in, 10 clicks in and even 15 clicks in. 85 psi at 98kg 

At high speeds I feel like I have no control and even sometimes in super rough super fast sections I get the vibration of death from the bike.

I don't get full travel, but feel like I should be getting full travel. I can reduce pressure, but everyone seems to be ranting and raving about 20% sag and all it's benefits. Should I add a token despite not being able to bottom?

Thanks guys.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Hey Tom, I would suggest you try 25% sag as a starting point. Set your rebound in middle and low speed compression in middle, and then tune from there on the trail. Everyone has a different preference when it comes to suspension. However keep it simple. Also make sure your pike's lockout is set in open when setting sag. While your at it check your sag on your rear shock. You probably dont have enough air in your rear shock which is causing your front end to ride high and feel harsh. 

Im running about 6-8 clicks of rebound from full fast, and 4 to 5 clicks from full fast of low speed compression at about 25-28% sag depending on the trail.


----------



## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

Tom,

Sag measurement methods can vary the number you get. I go roughly with this video aiming for 25% and get good results.

Sag Setup:


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

we get fast suspension products in the UK from TFtuned. Costs £160 and that includes a service. n


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I wonder if a Mattoc damper would fit?

199 Euro for the Fast Suspension cartridge is a good price. But it makes the total a very very expensive fork.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

stumpynerd said:


> Hey Tom, I would suggest you try 25% sag as a starting point. Set your rebound in middle and low speed compression in middle, and then tune from there on the trail. Everyone has a different preference when it comes to suspension. However keep it simple. Also make sure your pike's lockout is set in open when setting sag. While your at it check your sag on your rear shock. You probably dont have enough air in your rear shock which is causing your front end to ride high and feel harsh.
> 
> Im running about 6-8 clicks of rebound from full fast, and 4 to 5 clicks from full fast of low speed compression at about 25-28% sag depending on the trail.


Thanks for the input mate, but what does riding high mean? do you mean high in the travel or the head angle is too steep? Have you tried 20% sag? it is quite good, I was at 25% before and 20% just has more control but not enough control right now haha.



petercarm said:


> Tom,
> 
> Sag measurement methods can vary the number you get. I go roughly with this video aiming for 25% and get good results.
> 
> Sag Setup:


Yup, I am definitely doing it right, annoying thing is that i can do the sag test perfectly 5 times in a row and get a different number each time, even with a freshly serviced fork! but at least they all average around 22%.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Hey Tom, riding high refers to your rear has way more sag then the front. Chopper like. Yep I tried 20% sag, was too harsh for my liking. I have a lot of granite, and glacial moraine in my area. So I tend to run softer settings, and have zero bottomless tokens. I did however pick up a monarch plus debon air and will have to retune my bike this coming season after the snow clears.

Here is a good article on tuning.
Suspension Tuning Tips


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Mudguard25 said:


> Turn bike upside down after releasing all the air first, Undo nut on bottom of the leg. Done.


Sorry for a 'stupid' question, but:
1. should I knock with a mallet to be able 'completely remove' lower leg parts?
2. should I do it for both sides?
TX again


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

paulki said:


> Sorry for a 'stupid' question, but:
> 1. should I knock with a mallet to be able 'completely remove' lower leg parts?
> 2. should I do it for both sides?
> TX again


A rubber mallet, yes. I'll pass on Texas though.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Jayem said:


> A rubber mallet, yes. I'll pass on Texas though.


just to clarify: 
I don't need to change the oil now (only ~1 month riding). 
So, in order to remove the trapped air, should I actually disassemble/remove completely the lower lags, and in fact to change the oil? Or, is it enough just to unscrew the nut without mallet work? Was the upside down suggestion intended for not loosing the oil t all from the legs?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

No, you should just ride it. The air thing isn't really an issue. The fork self-equalizes when the fork extends. If it's sucking in pressure and over-pressurizing, then it just needs a little let out through the top, but I haven't heard of that happening. The fork won't de-pressurize unless you knock the rods loose, but this isn't a big issue. A few people think it is, the majority of us notice nothing in this area. If you are going to knock the rods loose, you might as well change the semi-bath (real small amount of oil).


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Jayem said:


> No, you should just ride it. The air thing isn't really an issue. The fork self-equalizes when the fork extends. If it's sucking in pressure and over-pressurizing, then it just needs a little let out through the top, but I haven't heard of that happening.


Seems like half of this whole thread was dealing with that issue - and people are swearing about how better/plusher their forks ride after releasing the air through the seals (which I am trying not to do).
My fork definitely rides a bit stiff to my standards, and I don't use nearly 3cm of travel. However, it seems that setting it to the mid of the range (70psi) is better than to the lower end for my weight (65 psi ) and also to 55-60psi. Surprisingly, it rides smoother with higher pressure.
I ride fastest rebound and no LC. My conclusion is that setting it on the lower end of the pressure provides not enough 'energy' to rebound quickly on consecutive hits (rock gardens). I thought releasing the air may improve the things...


----------



## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

I only have 5 rides on my pike, and I can't seem to find the sweet spot... I'm 150 geared up and have 1 token installed. Ive jumped around between 20 and 25% sag, and various LSC and rebound settings and it always seems to get caught up in the chatter. When I'm on the lower end on the pressure, the fork feels dead, no pop to it at all. So I increase pressure and it gets harsh. 

Do I really need the token weighing in at 150? I've constantly read how much they help but it is usually heavier guys that are using them. 

Any ideas on which direction I need go with the settings, or a good starting point?

I ride fast, pike is a 160 solo on an Ibis HD


----------



## zongman (Jul 28, 2014)

heh i had 3 in mine and im 10 lbs lighter than you(no gear, so prob same with gear), prob ran 45 psi in it. i switched the air shaft to a 160mm so i gotta play with it some more. i had 3 cuz i was thrashing the bike off any and every jump i could find, oh and bombing down any bit of downhill. it felt great, always had ~10-15mm in reserve for that ugly hit.


----------



## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

What kind of LSC and rebound are you running?


----------



## zongman (Jul 28, 2014)

hmm probly 5 clicks lsc from softest and idk on the rebound, i just played with it till it felt nice. sorry i cant help anymore, i have her in storage for now.


----------



## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

Cool, thanks man. I'll pop another token in and lower psi's and see how it feels tomorrow


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Hey Trap, honestly Id start with zero tokens,30% sag, set your lsc and rebound in middle then tune from there on the trail. Most likely you will end up speeding up rebound several clicks and lsc. If you are constantly bottoming add a little air. If your still bottoming constantly add a token. Only make small adjustments when your tuning stuff. 
Suspension Tuning Tips


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

@ 150 lbs, I'd take the token out, run about 30% sag and about 4 clicks of LSC. Rebound, I think, is personal preference.
@ almost 200 lbs geared up, I was running 30%, no token and liked the way the fork felt except I bottomed quite often.
Went to 20ish% sag, didn't bottom so much but wasn't good in the rough chatter, didn't like the way it felt pushing into turns. Now I have 1 token, 25-27% sag, 4clicks LSC and it rides very well.
Remember when adjusting, make 1 adjustment at a time, then you know what works and what doesn't.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I'm in same bucket as you at approx 150. (closer to 154)

I was running 60psi, no tokens, 3 LSC and 5-6 rebound (out from full fast). This was supportive (safe) and reactive. But I wasn't happy with small bump compliance and found it poppy off larger obstacles at speed. Slowing down the rebound didn't really address this.

I'm now trying the other spectrum; 1 token, 4-6 LSC and I am testing rebound at the slower end. I haven't finished my testing, But, this is the best it has felt yet. I suspect this LSC + slower rebound keep the fork supple in the first 1/4 of travel or so which really helps with the chatter. The idea is to trick it too float over it, rather than have the wheel address every imperfection. Now, if you ride fast, you might find this feels even better.

My experience with the pike is that even from 5 clicks out from the slowest rebound, I wouldn't call it slow, I'd call it fairly spot on. Similarly, rebound in the middle is already fast to my way of thinking.



trap121 said:


> I only have 5 rides on my pike, and I can't seem to find the sweet spot... I'm 150 geared up and have 1 token installed. Ive jumped around between 20 and 25% sag, and various LSC and rebound settings and it always seems to get caught up in the chatter. When I'm on the lower end on the pressure, the fork feels dead, no pop to it at all. So I increase pressure and it gets harsh.
> 
> Do I really need the token weighing in at 150? I've constantly read how much they help but it is usually heavier guys that are using them.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

lucifuge said:


> I'm in same bucket as you at approx 150. (closer to 154)
> 
> I was running 60psi, no tokens, 3 LSC and 5-6 rebound (out from full fast). This was supportive (safe) and reactive. But I wasn't happy with small bump compliance and found it poppy off larger obstacles at speed. Slowing down the rebound didn't really address this.
> 
> ...


I would think that at your weight and traps, 30% sag, 0 LSC and slow rebound would be the ticket


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

In one area I ride, this is definitely worth trying. I will try it in the other area which more techy, but I'm bit concerned of dangerous wallow without the LSC.



Bent Wheel said:


> I would think that at your weight and traps, 30% sag, 0 LSC and slow rebound would be the ticket


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

lucifuge said:


> In one area I ride, this is definitely worth trying. I will try it in the other area which more techy, but I'm bit concerned of dangerous wallow without the LSC.


That's how I do it, pick a hunk of trail and ride it, adjust, ride that same piece again and so on until you find the settings you like.Write them down somw where for future reference.
I wouldn't worry to much about wallowing. Without LSC you may experience some brake dive, but at your weight, maybe very little.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

One minor tibit guys. I did notice it took about a month before my pike felt broke in.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

stumpynerd said:


> One minor tibit guys. I did notice it took about a month before my pike felt broke in.


I have to second this ^, except, I've been riding my fork for 3 full months and it seems to get better every time I take it out.


----------



## MObiker (Feb 14, 2004)

I just got my 120 mm Pike to replace the 110 mm SID on my Camber. The SID is a good fork but I always wanted a Pike. My experience with solo RS is set the fork to barely bottom out on your favorite ride. Don't worry about sag %. It makes a huge difference on the ride quality. I usually end up 20-30 psi + below what they recommend.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Interesting point. The more I think about it, the sag % is becoming an irrelevance for this fork if you satisfy settings as you recommend.


MObiker said:


> I just got my 120 mm Pike to replace the 110 mm SID on my Camber. The SID is a good fork but I always wanted a Pike. My experience with solo RS is set the fork to barely bottom out on your favorite ride. Don't worry about sag %. It makes a huge difference on the ride quality. I usually end up 20-30 psi + below what they recommend.


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

I couldn't get it right using sag on my solo 150 (26) - too soft. I couldn't get it right with the recommended pressure for weight scale - too hard. So, like Goldilocks, er I mean MObiker I ended up with just finding a pressure that led to bottoming out once every 2-3 rides (on the local trails) and tinkering with the rest of the settings from then. 

I am well under recommended pressure. At speed it is brilliant and totally predictable. The only way I can make it bottom is to grab all the brakes with my weight over the bars off a drop at speed. You guessed it - I practice this amazing lack of skill about once every 2-3 rides Just kidding, I do bottom out in normal riding situations as well.

We have staccato rocks here and I notice the current settings are not as effective climbing as with higher pressure. I also notice that dropping over a number of stepdowns there is a tendency for me to feel less secure. Increasing HSC would help - doh, more pressure! 

On my last bike, the fork was unsubtle and just bounced over the staccato rocks and slow drops. It was different and if I was chasing that on the Pike I would run higher pressure, but it's my fault if staccato rocks win or if I fail to control my speed and body position over slow drops. Therefore I think you have to balance how you ride with how you set up this fork. Maybe I would increase pressure to ride trails I don't know and may be more hesitant on. There again, I haven't so far and been very happy.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

and what rebound + LSC are u finding working?



Ridnparadise said:


> I couldn't get it right using sag on my solo 150 (26) - too soft. I couldn't get it right with the recommended pressure for weight scale - too hard. So, like Goldilocks, er I mean MObiker I ended up with just finding a pressure that led to bottoming out once every 2-3 rides (on the local trails) and tinkering with the rest of the settings from then.
> 
> I am well under recommended pressure. At speed it is brilliant and totally predictable. The only way I can make it bottom is to grab all the brakes with my weight over the bars off a drop at speed. You guessed it - I practice this amazing lack of skill about once every 2-3 rides Just kidding, I do bottom out in normal riding situations as well.
> 
> ...


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

As per your rec, I tried no LSC, slow rebound and 50psi. Felt really good!

Amazingly I still had 4cm of travel unused (ie 27% or so). Maybe I'll try 45psi.....sounds low tho!



Bent Wheel said:


> I would think that at your weight and traps, 30% sag, 0 LSC and slow rebound would be the ticket


----------



## zongman (Jul 28, 2014)

how hard are you riding the bike, bombing thru stuff, jumping it and so forth or are you slow and steady thru rough stuff?


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

lucifuge said:


> As per your rec, I tried no LSC, slow rebound and 50psi. Felt really good!
> 
> Amazingly I still had 4cm of travel unused (ie 27% or so). Maybe I'll try 45psi.....sounds low tho!


Glad I could help. Keep me posted as per your trying a little less air pressure.


----------



## thepotatokid (May 18, 2007)

SingleTrackHound said:


> I have the 650B version 160mm Pike. I am pretty sure lower is the only part different among 26, 27.5, and 29. I believe lower is taller by 10mm on 650B version vs. 26" on same travel version. I am currently running 650B version Pike on my 26" frame with 26" wheelset. I see a bit more gap between the top of tire and the bottom of lower arch than other 26" fork setup I have.





vadimn said:


> Thanks, I also think so, but I want to be sure, is any ability to contact sram?


Does anyone know if it is possible to convert 26 Pikes to 27.5? Have read thru this thread and couldn't find if this had been confirmed.


----------



## Dazed (Feb 7, 2004)

thepotatokid said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to convert 26 Pikes to 27.5? Have read thru this thread and couldn't find if this had been confirmed.


I guess, if you bought a new steerer/crown/stanchions assembly, but I bet it's not worth the time and money. Sell your 26" and buy a 27.5" one.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Gah, tuning this fork is a real head ache. I get 22% sag with 80 psi and about 9/14 clicks of lsc. I like the support this gives me and feels goodish through square edge hits. But I never bottom! Always 1 inch of travel to go on things that I felt like I should have bottomed out on.

Tried 75psi but it didn't have enough support or control in drops and steep sections so I like 80psi but I wish I could bottom it. Then I noticed that at 80psi and about 6 clicks from full fast that my front was skipping in flat rippled corners, so I was like ok need to slow the rebound down a bit. But then chatter feels like death.

To throw another spanner in the works, I can bottom my rear easily when its 30% sag and has like 7 rockshox volume reducing rubber bands. Any less sag and I feel the head angle is a bit too steep.

Need help 

160mm pike RC. 

Out of interest what lsc are people with rc's running?


----------



## Dazed (Feb 7, 2004)

One less token?


----------



## lanruss (Apr 22, 2005)

Where were you able to find a 120mm pike? This seems to be an item that a lot of people want, but few have been able to find.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

No tokens inside


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

TomMtb said:


> Gah, tuning this fork is a real head ache. I get 22% sag with 80 psi and about 9/14 clicks of lsc. *I like the support this gives me* and feels goodish through square edge hits. But I never bottom! Always 1 inch of travel to go on things that I felt like I should have bottomed out on.
> 
> *Tried 75psi but it didn't have enough support or control in drops and steep sections* so I like 80psi but I wish I could bottom it. Then I noticed that at 80psi and about 6 clicks from full fast that my front was skipping in flat rippled corners, so I was like ok need to slow the rebound down a bit. But then chatter feels like death.
> 
> To throw another spanner in the works, I can bottom my rear easily when its 30% sag and has like 7 rockshox volume reducing rubber bands. Any less sag and I feel the head angle is a bit too steep.


How much do you weigh geared up? And what bike is this on?

The kind of obvious answer is that you have too much air in the fork to bottom out. Can you explain the bold parts a little better? Support means, what? Pedaling support? Riding higher in travel?

Do you have any pics or video friends have taken of you riding these sections? My first question is your body position. If you're not back enough, you'll put a lot of weight on the fork, and it will dive.

Speaking of diving, how does the fork react under heavy braking with these 2 configurations?


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

TomMtb said:


> Gah, tuning this fork is a real head ache. I get 22% sag with 80 psi and about 9/14 clicks of lsc. I like the support this gives me and feels goodish through square edge hits. But I never bottom! Always 1 inch of travel to go on things that I felt like I should have bottomed out on.
> Tried 75psi but it didn't have enough support or control in drops and steep sections so I like 80psi but I wish I could bottom it. Then I noticed that at 80psi and about 6 clicks from full fast that my front was skipping in flat rippled corners, so I was like ok need to slow the rebound down a bit. But then chatter feels like death.
> To throw another spanner in the works, I can bottom my rear easily when its 30% sag and has like 7 rockshox volume reducing rubber bands. Any less sag and I feel the head angle is a bit too steep.
> Need help
> ...


If you are satisfied how the forks works with 22% SAG (80psi you wrote), why do you bother yourself for not getting full travel (why do you think it's a bad thing) ? If a fork works great, you feel the plushness in every possible situation (from low speed bumps, to high speed, drops and what not), and it uses only like 50% of travel, than hell yes - that's a good fork, isn't it ?

IMHO, the Pike was the easiest fork to dial and to feel great on 99% of trails without touching the LSC or rebound once it is set.

I run 160 RC, no LSC, don't know for rebound ( but from other people settings, mine are pretty fast). Tried one token, felt much more harsh on the hands, got it out. Round 20-25% SAG while standing (75-80psi I think), get full travel only when I make a mistake on the trail and when Jesus takes the wheel .

Maybe it the rear shock that takes much more of the impacts, since you say it bottoms out easily. Your weight shifts backwards, cause of the shock, and the Pike isn't loaded that much so doesn't compress?


----------



## zongman (Jul 28, 2014)

Dazed said:


> I guess, if you bought a new steerer/crown/stanchions assembly, but I bet it's not worth the time and money. Sell your 26" and buy a 27.5" one.


pretty sure you would only need new lowers, if the 26" and 650b lower are indeed different.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

ColinL said:


> How much do you weigh geared up? And what bike is this on?
> 
> The kind of obvious answer is that you have too much air in the fork to bottom out. Can you explain the bold parts a little better? Support means, what? Pedaling support? Riding higher in travel?
> 
> ...


Hey mate, 98kg (around 215 pounds) geared up and it's on a 2015 Giant reign 2. When I say support I do mean staying high in the travel, best example of this would be a drop follow by a quick corner. It does feel like as soon as I land and I have to do some braking that the head angle steepens too much for me and the bike feels skittish, but I am not excessively over the front. Support also in steep tracks with alot of chunder by keep the head angle slack.

I don't have any videos or pictures unfortunately, only chest cam videos.

Under hard breaking slight amount of dive but manageable. But at 75 psi its too much especially on steep tracks whilst going through unavoidable chunder.

I feel like the perfect solutions is reducing HSC but everyone else thinks that rockshox has it set perfectly.



Vuco said:


> If you are satisfied how the forks works with 22% SAG (80psi you wrote), why do you bother yourself for not getting full travel (why do you think it's a bad thing) ? If a fork works great, you feel the plushness in every possible situation (from low speed bumps, to high speed, drops and what not), and it uses only like 50% of travel, than hell yes - that's a good fork, isn't it ?
> 
> IMHO, the Pike was the easiest fork to dial and to feel great on 99% of trails without touching the LSC or rebound once it is set.
> 
> ...


I definitely see where you're coming from and I had these exact thoughts myself, but High speed hits only feel 'goodish' there is alot of room for improvement and it does feel like my HSC is too harsh but I am the only one complaining about it so my setup is probably incorrect. Lower psi sounds like the best answer but I hope there is a way to keep the support but improve high speed hits.

very good point about the shock, I did try today to weight the front more but it goes against the mantra of heavy feet and light hands, too much weight on the handle bars makes the steering really imprecise.

I am also very picky about my suspension so that doesn't help either


----------



## Dazed (Feb 7, 2004)

I'm about 220#, and I run my 26" Pike 150 at 60psi with two tokens and six clicks LSC. Might remove one token again. Will see. I kind of ride like a wuss, though.


----------



## thepotatokid (May 18, 2007)

zongman said:


> pretty sure you would only need new lowers, if the 26" and 650b lower are indeed different.


I'm sure the lowers are different but was wondering if the crown steerer unit is the same between the 26 and 650b versions?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

thepotatokid said:


> I'm sure the lowers are different but was wondering if the crown steerer unit is the same between the 26 and 650b versions?


Go to the Rockshox website and there are tech document links at the bottom of the page. Download the parts doc and you can see all the parts required for the swap. From memory I think each wheel size has its own crown/stations but I'm not sure. If that's the case you'd be better off selling yours and or just buying the 275 fork.

Within each wheel size it's easy to swap air springs required to change travel and there is some commonality with springs and different wheels sizes.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

TomMtb said:


> No tokens inside


You might try adding one token and then lowering air pressure you gain some top end sensitivity but increase ramp up of ending stroke.

The other issue is higher air pressures also requires added rebound dampening. It sounds like yours might be to fast for the psi you have.

I found the pike easy to dial in but I have played around with tokens some.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

thepotatokid said:


> I'm sure the lowers are different but was wondering if the crown steerer unit is the same between the 26 and 650b versions?


Same csu but along with lowers you also need a different air spring assembly and rebound damper. The shafts on both sides are longer for 27.5. It's more hassle than it's worth. Sell it and buy a new one.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

First up, 99%+ of your riding is making use of up to the last 1" of travel. To me, that's a good thing.

From all that your saying. With air pressure; either stick with 80psi (not 75psi), or, add a token and try less pressure and compare (maybe 75psi).

I would next get rebound correct. From my experiences so far from a lot of testing it performs better at the slower end. The rapid rebound will override where it needs to, so try 6 clicks out from fully slow...not fully fast. This will improve control in areas your mention.

So... start with 80psi and 6 clicks from fully slow and NO LSC. Add more LSC one click at a time until it feels right for you on that specific trail. Last point is important! I run no LSC on one trail and up to 6 LSC on another.



TomMtb said:


> Gah, tuning this fork is a real head ache. I get 22% sag with 80 psi and about 9/14 clicks of lsc. I like the support this gives me and feels goodish through square edge hits. But I never bottom! Always 1 inch of travel to go on things that I felt like I should have bottomed out on.
> 
> Tried 75psi but it didn't have enough support or control in drops and steep sections so I like 80psi but I wish I could bottom it. Then I noticed that at 80psi and about 6 clicks from full fast that my front was skipping in flat rippled corners, so I was like ok need to slow the rebound down a bit. But then chatter feels like death.
> 
> ...


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

my experience with rebound is opposite: I had to gradually add air pressure with rebound set fixed to fastest (and no lsc), untill the pike stopped feeling harsh in rock gardens. actually ended up in the mid of my recommended pressure range, 70psi. I weigh 77kg. I assume no tokens installed (did not open it yet). pike 160/26". I also don'tdon't use 1" of travel but the fork feels very supportive so who cares...


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I think this highlights maybe one reason why so many people have issues tuning the fork. Namely, that the trails are so different and require different setups. It's just so hard to generalise and say these parameters will 'work'. What's important is that you have found a great setup for you as I have for me. Took some time i can tell you that lol



paulki said:


> my experience with rebound is opposite: I had to gradually add air pressure with rebound set fixed to fastest (and no lsc), untill the pike stopped feeling harsh in rock gardens. actually ended up in the mid of my recommended pressure range, 70psi. I weigh 77kg. I assume no tokens installed (did not open it yet). pike 160/26". I also don'tdon't use 1" of travel but the fork feels very supportive so who cares...


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

jimarin said:


> Same csu but along with lowers you also need a different air spring assembly and rebound damper. The shafts on both sides are longer for 27.5. It's more hassle than it's worth. Sell it and buy a new one.


CSU's all have different part numbers which indicates there is a difference between a 26" CSU and a 27.5" CSU.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

paulki said:


> my experience with rebound is opposite: I had to gradually add air pressure with rebound set fixed to fastest (and no lsc), untill the pike stopped feeling harsh in rock gardens. actually ended up in the mid of my recommended pressure range, 70psi. I weigh 77kg. I assume no tokens installed (did not open it yet). pike 160/26". I also don'tdon't use 1" of travel but the fork feels very supportive so who cares...


Your issue is counter intuitive adding air pressure and keeping the rebound setting at the fastest setting. There might be something else going on here and I'd try deflating the spring and zeroing out all the settings, cycling the fork a few times and re-setting everything. It's kind of a given that if your air pressure increases in your suspension spring then your rebound dampening will also need to increase some to help control the stronger spring. It's not a linear correlation and of course everyone has different requirements of what they like but it's just simple physics.



lucifuge said:


> I think this highlights maybe one reason why so many people have issues tuning the fork. Namely, that the trails are so different and require different setups. It's just so hard to generalise and say these parameters will 'work'. What's important is that you have found a great setup for you as I have for me. Took some time i can tell you that lol


Agreed, different strokes for different folks, haha! Baseline suspension dynamics are pretty much the same for any fork or shock but we all have to dial in what we fell meets our needs. This Pike is definitely one of the nicest forks that I've owned, especiallly for it's weight, although I'd love to have the high and low speed compression dampening control with this Charger damper that I had with my Totem and Lyrik forks. Evidently it's not that simple to incorporate the high speed dampening into the Charger damper because the Boxxer WC also lost the HS user control with the Charger.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Bit of an update with my Pike solo air 27.5 150mm.

I had run mine token free (factory) at my riders weight 72kg recommendation of 65psi. With this, I would have been lucky to use 50% of the travel for the trails I ride (predominantly flowing forest with high speed chatter). I reduced to around 55psi and tinkered around with settings and was not completely satisfied with any change. In the last week or so, I added a single token and reduced the air to 50psi. After that ride I still had 1/3rd travel unused. Today I tried 45psi and still had 3-4cm unused. 

My question is: Is 40psi (!?) too low for this fork?? It sounds crazy low. Is there a minimum for this fork that's risky to breach?


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

lucifuge said:


> Bit of an update with my Pike solo air 27.5 150mm.
> 
> I had run mine token free (factory) at my riders weight 72kg recommendation of 65psi. With this, I would have been lucky to use 50% of the travel for the trails I ride (predominantly flowing forest with high speed chatter). I reduced to around 55psi and tinkered around with settings and was not completely satisfied with any change. In the last week or so, I added a single token and reduced the air to 50psi. After that ride I still had 1/3rd travel unused. Today I tried 45psi and still had 3-4cm unused.
> 
> My question is: Is 40psi (!?) too low for this fork?? It sounds crazy low. Is there a minimum for this fork that's risky to breach?


Percentage of travel used is really not a great way to set up a fork. I've found the Pike works best on the higher end of air pressures and that its best to focus on the quality of the travel and not the quantity. Running super low air pressures in order to get full travel on your local trail will result in a poor quality of travel and you will be riding deep in the stroke. The faster chatter with that setup tends to feel pretty bad.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

hillharman said:


> Percentage of travel used is really not a great way to set up a fork. I've found the Pike works best on the higher end of air pressures and that its best to focus on the quality of the travel and not the quantity. Running super low air pressures in order to get full travel on your local trail will result in a poor quality of travel and you will be riding deep in the stroke. The faster chatter with that setup tends to feel pretty bad.


Makes sense. With a token added, is sag calculated the same way? And if so i presume it will end up with less air as result than having a token in?


----------



## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

lucifuge said:


> Makes sense. With a token added, is sag calculated the same way? And if so i presume it will end up with less air as result than having a token in?


 Tokens don't make a huge difference for the air pressure required to get a certain sag value. They mainly kick in deeper in the stroke. If you aren't getting full travel, you probably want fewer tokens. I'd try the fork out for a day at ~20% sag with no tokens, focusing on getting the rebound right. Then maybe drop the pressure a bit from there.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

lucifuge said:


> Makes sense. With a token added, is sag calculated the same way? And if so i presume it will end up with less air as result than having a token in?


You can look at it as the same sag but really i think most of us are finding that the Pike is so plush that sag's not as important as overall feeling and quality of travel that hillharman mentions above. I know i started out with 30% sag dialed that in and then ended up with 20 lbs more psi and like it much better. I run a 29/140, started with 2 tokens, then went to 3 and 30% sag, then eventually to 20 psi over that and 2 tokens. Much better plus it feels bottomless now. You have to look at the volume of the spring in each situation (wheel size and travel) and the travel length to calcualte the air volume of the spring. Tokens help you find the right ramp up for the spring size and preference of each rider.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Bottom line for me is I have a nasty wrist injury and making the pike as plush as possible is absolutely key. Less air generally makes for a softer fork, BUT it also uses more travel than is req'd thus extending beyond the top part of the travel where its plushest. ...so there must be a trade-off. Feel like I've played with so many combinations it's hard to know what makes most sense.


----------



## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

So what's the recipe for high speed chatter? Have solo air pike 140/29 run it with about 20% sag with 3 tokens. Low speed comp is in the middle, rebound is in the middle too. Fork is perfect feels bottomless and I use full travel most of my rides, but high speed chatter suck. Fork feels too hard over it. It feels like fork has too much high speed comp.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

OK, well I just set the fork up with 20% sag (attack) and with one token that was 65psi. I've set the rebound to approx 1/3rd way out from fully fast (7 clicks) and initially no LSC. Will try that next ride and report back.

FWIW, if i now give the forks a heavy compression I can only press them down a max of 38%.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

lucifuge said:


> Bottom line for me is I have a nasty wrist injury and making the pike as plush as possible is absolutely key. Less air generally makes for a softer fork, BUT it also uses more travel than is req'd thus extending beyond the top part of the travel where its plushest. ...so there must be a trade-off. Feel like I've played with so many combinations it's hard to know what makes most sense.


All the more reason to add tokens and drop pressure. The tokens don't affect small bump compliance they increase ramp rate of the ending stroke.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

El_Zilcho said:


> So what's the recipe for high speed chatter? Have solo air pike 140/29 run it with about 20% sag with 3 tokens. Low speed comp is in the middle, rebound is in the middle too. Fork is perfect feels bottomless and I use full travel most of my rides, but high speed chatter suck. Fork feels too hard over it. It feels like fork has too much high speed comp.


Sounds to me like you may need one less token and slightly faster rebound. You might also back off the LSC a bit.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

manitou2200 said:


> Your issue is counter intuitive adding air pressure and keeping the rebound setting at the fastest setting. There might be something else going on here and I'd try deflating the spring and zeroing out all the settings, cycling the fork a few times and re-setting everything. It's kind of a given that if your air pressure increases in your suspension spring then your rebound dampening will also need to increase some to help control the stronger spring. It's not a linear correlation and of course everyone has different requirements of what they like but it's just simple physics.
> 
> Agreed, different strokes for different folks, haha! Baseline suspension dynamics are pretty much the same for any fork or shock but we all have to dial in what we fell meets our needs. This Pike is definitely one of the nicest forks that I've owned, especiallly for it's weight, although I'd love to have the high and low speed compression dampening control with this Charger damper that I had with my Totem and Lyrik forks. Evidently it's not that simple to incorporate the high speed dampening into the Charger damper because the Boxxer WC also lost the HS user control with the Charger.


I think it's not hard to explain what's going on: on fast chatter the fork was just unable to recover quickly with lower pressures. once sufficiently inflated, it was recoverying quickly enough. b.t.w., what you mean by zero ing out settings? fastest rebound and no lsc?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

hillharman said:


> Percentage of travel used is really not a great way to set up a fork. I've found the Pike works best on the higher end of air pressures and that its best to focus on the quality of the travel and not the quantity. Running super low air pressures in order to get full travel on your local trail will result in a poor quality of travel and you will be riding deep in the stroke. The faster chatter with that setup tends to feel pretty bad.


but that's you, your bike and your trails - it won't be the same for everyone. for me 30% and slow rebound is best


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

paulki said:


> I think it's not hard to explain what's going on: on fast chatter the fork was just unable to recover quickly with lower pressures. once sufficiently inflated, it was recoverying quickly enough. b.t.w., what you mean by zero ing out settings? fastest rebound and no lsc?


Yes and cycling the fork completely to make sure the + & - air chambers are equalized. Then air up the spring and readjust rebound and LSC. I would think that you will need some rebound dampening. I'm using 6 clicks from full fast with 70 psi on my 29/140.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

what does "cycling the fork completely" mean exactly?



manitou2200 said:


> Yes and cycling the fork completely to make sure the + & - air chambers are equalized. Then air up the spring and readjust rebound and LSC. I would think that you will need some rebound dampening. I'm using 6 clicks from full fast with 70 psi on my 29/140.


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

To equalize the + and - chamber, you have to extend the fork so the o-ring passes the dimple (hole) in the stanchion. While on the hole, the + and - chamber equalize in pressure since the o-ring on the piston can't cover the hole (that's why you feel 2-3mm of travel when pulling the fork up). If the o-ring passes the dimple, once again the chambers are separated.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I've not heard about the 'dimple' before. But in any event, are you essentially saying let all of the air out of the fork and re-inflate?



Vuco said:


> To equalize the + and - chamber, you have to extend the fork so the o-ring passes the dimple (hole) in the stanchion. While on the hole, the + and - chamber equalize in pressure since the o-ring on the piston can't cover the hole (that's why you feel 2-3mm of travel when pulling the fork up). If the o-ring passes the dimple, once again the chambers are separated.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

lucifuge said:


> what does "cycling the fork completely" mean exactly?


Fully compressed to fully extended. Do this a few times. Then re-set everything. You should be using some rebound dampening 3-6 clicks in from full open based on your 70 psi.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> Bit of an update with my Pike solo air 27.5 150mm. My question is: Is 40psi (!?) too low for this fork?? It sounds crazy low. Is there a minimum for this fork that's risky to breach?


I'm a little heavier than you at 75kg. 26/160mm.. Same situation, running lower and lower pressures (around 40psi) to get the fork through most of the travel. 
I've mentioned before that the fork works really well at the recommended pressure 65psi of so, for DH. But for normal trail riding it's way too firm. So it's off the bike and Dougal is going to look at it this week. Off the bike the fork is extremely light, I'll weigh it when I get it back home.


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> I've not heard about the 'dimple' before. But in any event, are you essentially saying let all of the air out of the fork and re-inflate?


https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q157/DrDover/SoloAirDimple_zps89d0094f.jpg
https://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2012/04/20/1334895084607-egd9elln1t9l-700-80.jpg

Thru this dimple, air passes from one chamber to the another.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

why thankyou!



Vuco said:


> https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q157/DrDover/SoloAirDimple_zps89d0094f.jpg
> https://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2012/04/20/1334895084607-egd9elln1t9l-700-80.jpg
> 
> Thru this dimple, air passes from one chamber to the another.


----------



## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

manitou2200 said:


> Sounds to me like you may need one less token and slightly faster rebound. You might also back off the LSC a bit.


Not sure about 1 less token. I use full travel with 3 tokens, 1 less and I'll have hard bottom out. I tried faster rebound and it worked to some degree. Also somebody mentioned that upping the pressure might help with chatter, this makes sense, so I'll try it sometime.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

El_Zilcho said:


> Not sure about 1 less token. I use full travel with 3 tokens, 1 less and I'll have hard bottom out. I tried faster rebound and it worked to some degree. Also somebody mentioned that upping the pressure might help with chatter, this makes sense, so I'll try it sometime.


Yes, you'll need more pressure in the spring if you remove one token. The fast chatter combined with too slow rebound and too little air in the spring will tend to pack out the fork and not allow it to do its job thus feeling harsh. That's why I suggested one less token along with more air pressure, this will help counter the slower rebound. If you up your pressure and leave three tokens in you'll use less travel and it'll ramp up harder at the ending stroke. Try this leaving rebound as is the slowly back of rebound and see how that feels.


----------



## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

Oh, OK It makes sense now. Will try it next week, have a snowboard trip planed for this weekend


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Yeah, I'm in northern ON on the norte shore of da greatest lake on a BC ski trip. Big snow here. There's more snow here this year than anywhere in the NA continent besides BC, Newfoundland and the Torngats! 

I think about riding a little but it's only a distant thought with 8' of compacted snow on the ground and 2' of fresh on top! I will have some video later this week and I maybe post it up here.

Have fun!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mudguard25 said:


> I'm a little heavier than you at 75kg. 26/160mm.. Same situation, running lower and lower pressures (around 40psi) to get the fork through most of the travel.
> I've mentioned before that the fork works really well at the recommended pressure 65psi of so, for DH. But for normal trail riding it's way too firm. So it's off the bike and Dougal is going to look at it this week. Off the bike the fork is extremely light, I'll weigh it when I get it back home.


So I got into Mudgard's Pike RC last night. It was immediately obvious what the problem is. These are horrendously over-damped and need revalved to work well for any rider of normal size.

I'll start up a new thread with some photos and observations. But the problem is real and no-end of venting air or rebound adjustment will fix it.

Weight wise, the Pike is a fraction heavier than the Mattoc.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

wow, with a riders weight of 72kg, i'm keen to hear about this!



Dougal said:


> So I got into Mudgard's Pike RC last night. It was immediately obvious what the problem is. These are horrendously over-damped and need revalved to work well for any rider of normal size.
> 
> I'll start up a new thread with some photos and observations. But the problem is real and no-end of venting air or rebound adjustment will fix it.
> 
> Weight wise, the Pike is a fraction heavier than the Mattoc.


----------



## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

Dougal said:


> .... These are horrendously over-damped and need revalved to work well for any rider of normal size.
> 
> ....


I'm normal size  If anything, I'm underweight for my 6'4'' and 203lb And I think the dampening is spot on


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

El_Zilcho said:


> I'm normal size  If anything, I'm underweight for my 6'4'' and 203lb And I think the dampening is spot on


Fair call.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Dougal-

Are you referring to Pike's in general?
I'm a little under 70kg with gear. 
I've been thinking about switching from my 2014 Fox 34 (though I have to say I think it's a great fork) to try the Pike. Their smoothness is so heralded. 
But is that not the case for lighter riders too?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jon123 said:


> Dougal-
> 
> Are you referring to Pike's in general?
> I'm a little under 70kg with gear.
> ...


I'm a little over 70kg, I've ridden 5 Pike and they were all the same. I don't rate their stock damper tune at all. It's setup to be an orifice damper with lockout, not a functioning shim stack damper.

Basically it's marzocchi TST2 with a bladder.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Dougal said:


> I'm a little over 70kg, I've ridden 5 Pike and they were all the same. I don't rate their stock damper tune at all. It's setup to be an orifice damper with lockout, not a functioning shim stack damper.
> 
> Basically it's marzocchi TST2 with a bladder.


So what is on the market currently the best option for a 63kg/140lbs/naked me?
Fox 36 felt even stiffer.
Custom tuned Pike? Avalanche tune?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> So what is on the market currently the best option for a 63kg/140lbs/naked me?
> Fox 36 felt even stiffer.
> Custom tuned Pike? Avalanche tune?


You'll note my conflict of interest, being the NZ Manitou agent, but I've been riding a Mattoc for about the last 3 months.
I recommend you try one.

A custom tuned pike will eventually be able to feel good. But there's an extra cost involved with that and you may not be happy with the first revalve result either.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

^^ I chose a Mattoc over a Pike for the hydraulic bottom out and price. MSRP is similar on the Pike RCT3 and Mattoc Pro, but street prices are not at all similar. And the Mattoc Expert is functionally the same, excluding fewer rebound adjustments, but weighs 100g more and costs still less.

There's also the MRP Stage to consider. I really like MRP's involvement on the forums, and initial reviews of the fork are very favorable.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> I'm a little over 70kg, I've ridden 5 Pike and they were all the same. I don't rate their stock damper tune at all. It's setup to be an orifice damper with lockout, not a functioning shim stack damper.
> 
> Basically it's marzocchi TST2 with a bladder.


It's not, I have the pistons and shims out, separated and by themselves. I'll take some pics for you tomorrow maybe. It's nothing like a TST. I had a TST. The only similarity is the bladder, and that's where it ends. Totally different internals.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> It's not, I have the pistons and shims out, separated and by themselves. I'll take some pics for you tomorrow maybe. It's nothing like a TST. I had a TST. The only similarity is the bladder, and that's where it ends. Totally different internals.


I have my own pics. The similarity is the function, not the aesthetics.

Both the pike rc and tst2 run shims so stiff they are essentially a lockout blowoff. The flow is almost entirely through the large internal bypass.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Dougal said:


> So I got into Mudgard's Pike RC last night. It was immediately obvious what the problem is. These are horrendously over-damped and need revalved to work well for any rider of normal size.
> 
> I'll start up a new thread with some photos and observations. But the problem is real and no-end of venting air or rebound adjustment will fix it.
> 
> Weight wise, the Pike is a fraction heavier than the Mattoc.


Well I'm 160 lbs. kitted up and I've had no issues setting up my Pike RCT3 to ride and work efficiently. So I'm not sure where your coming from with this broad and overly vague statement! Unless you're just trolling here and trying to convince people to buy Manitou forks instead of Pikes. Also don't reply back with how a properly dampened fork is supposed to work.

You might try to quantify your criticisms of the Pike in actual assessment of performance or just move onto the Manitou forum and save the rhetoric for those that care to listen to the BS!!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

manitou2200 said:


> Well I'm 160 lbs. kitted up and I've had no issues setting up my Pike RCT3 to ride and work efficiently. So I'm not sure where your coming from with this broad and overly vague statement! Unless you're just trolling here and trying to convince people to buy Manitou forks instead of Pikes. Also don't reply back with how a properly dampened fork is supposed to work.
> 
> You might try to quantify your criticisms of the Pike in actual assessment of performance or just move onto the Manitou forum and save the rhetoric for those that care to listen to the BS!!


Did you note rc model? Not rtc3!

Different compression damping setup. It pays to read such details.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

mine must have been tuned specifically for me from the factory then as I have no issue from the fork.



Dougal said:


> So I got into Mudgard's Pike RC last night. It was immediately obvious what the problem is. These are horrendously over-damped and need revalved to work well for any rider of normal size.
> 
> I'll start up a new thread with some photos and observations. But the problem is real and no-end of venting air or rebound adjustment will fix it.
> 
> Weight wise, the Pike is a fraction heavier than the Mattoc.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

ColinL said:


> There's also the MRP Stage to consider. I really like MRP's involvement on the forums, and initial reviews of the fork are very favorable.


I'm wondering if the MRP may be a better fit over the Pike for us lighter riders?


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

jon123 said:


> I'm wondering if the MRP may be a better fit over the Pike for us lighter riders?


How light?

Manufacturers have to make forks able to handle a wide range of rider weights. I assure you that the community of sub-160 pound riders who complain about not getting full travel is less numerous than the community of over-220 pound riders who complain about a fork being underdamped.

Anyway, having a fork tailored to your weight is always good, but it's most beneficial if you're very light or very heavy. Because the air spring can do a lot, but the damper has to match.


----------



## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Did you note rc model? Not rtc3!
> 
> Different compression damping setup. It pays to read such details.


They have the same internals - only difference is the lack of preset Lock/Pedal/Open switch on the top. Both have Charger Damper etc.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

baltik said:


> They have the same internals - only difference is the lack of preset Lock/Pedal/Open switch on the top. Both have Charger Damper etc.


The extra adjustment on the rtc3 means a different compression piston setup. Exactly how different I'll know when I get inside a production one.

The charge damper is the cartridge that holds the oil and pistons. It doesn't dictate the valving at all.

If you, or anyone else, is happy with the performance of their pike, then that's great. But it doesn't change the problem of those who aren't.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

manitou2200 said:


> You might try to quantify your criticisms of the Pike in actual assessment of performance or just move onto the Manitou forum and save the rhetoric for those that care to listen to the BS!!


I'm not sure how anything can actually be quantified when it comes to mountainbikes. My only indicator has been the o ring not reaching full travel even at low PSI and the front wheel bouncing over small sharp bumps (IE roots).
I described at length to Dougal how the fork reacted. Test ride tomorrow morning. So we'll see how it goes with fewer shims.


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

I for one am very interested to hear Dougals assessment of the pike. He's been at suspension tuning for quite some time, & if there's some other fine tuning available for the pike, that'd be great. I'm at the lighter weight spectrum of design, & although the fork works good, better would be better.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Andrew BAsport said:


> I cannot speak for the RC, however I have tested the RT3 for a friend of mine and I found some interesting things. The testing was carried out on a Roehrig shock dyno with only the damper cartridge installed. That way I was able to isolate the force generated by the damper. I have found that the friction created by the fork chassis (stations running on seals and bushings) makes it difficult to evaluate the damper functions. I also did all of my testing in the compression open setting as in this setting the low speed compression adjustment is active.
> 
> 1.	The compression seems pretty soft to me. But I am new to the MTB market, most of my work has been with cars, so I am having to adjust what my brain views as adequate force numbers! That said I compared it with a fork from another manufacturer (brand Z) and as you can see in Figure 1, it is softer. I am not trying to say one is better than the other so I will leave the identity of Brand Z out of this discussion.
> 
> ...


Great post Andrew, but like you said the force measurements are far lower than they should be.
For example Manitou provide force/velocity charts for their ABS+ damper, in my Wife's bike it runs between 75 and 130 N at 1m/s depending on the bleed position.
In imperial that's about 17-29 lb force. 2.5-4 times your measured values and that's the softest I've ever tuned a fork.

Unfortunately I don't ride an ABS+ fork myself to compare force values.

I've yet to ride an RTC3 Pike, but the force you've got on that plot is essentially un-damped.

It'll be interesting if you can dyno an RC. With the LS dial open and closed!


----------



## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

When I let all air out and compress the fork down, should it stay down? 
It rebounds back up to about 30-40% of it's travel. 
Is this normal considering I let all the air out of the fork? What is pushing it back up if there's no air in it? Could the air be trapped somewhere?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Definitely in open mode? I also left the rebound on hare (fastest) so it was obvious if air was still trapped. LSC was on none (if that's even relevant)

When you are compressing the forks are you letting the air out right until contact at the bottom? I initially was getting your result but, when I pushed down really firmly, I realised more air could still come out. granted I cant remember the final resting point but it was effectively right to the bottom.



MarinCRO said:


> When I let all air out and compress the fork down, should it stay down?
> It rebounds back up to about 30-40% of it's travel.
> Is this normal considering I let all the air out of the fork? What is pushing it back up if there's no air in it? Could the air be trapped somewhere?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

MarinCRO said:


> When I let all air out and compress the fork down, should it stay down?
> It rebounds back up to about 30-40% of it's travel.
> Is this normal considering I let all the air out of the fork? What is pushing it back up if there's no air in it? Could the air be trapped somewhere?


You need to remove the valve core to not build pressure.


----------



## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

Dougal said:


> You need to remove the valve core to not build pressure.


I actually removed the top cap to try the fork without token, but it still pops up to about 30-40%.


----------



## zongman (Jul 28, 2014)

maybe you have air in the lowers? bleed it off by inserting a tywrap in between the dust wiper and stanchion, you dont have to go in anymore than an inch.


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

It's the vacuum in the negative chamber. It builds up when you compress the fork (the air equalizes on full extension, any position from that one closes the passage from positive to negative chamber).


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

MarinCRO said:


> I actually removed the top cap to try the fork without token, but it still pops up to about 30-40%.


It took about 70kg static to fully compress that pike rc but with the air chamber empty and still sealed.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Did you note rc model? Not rtc3!
> 
> Different compression damping setup. It pays to read such details.


You are correct, so my mistake on this. I'm curious to learn your findings and comparison on the comp dampening between the RC and RTC3.


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Andrew BAsport said:


> From what I see here too much damping force is not of issue, but how the Pike generates the force might be. If you look at the left side of the graph as the damper starts in to the compression stroke the line is almost vertical and those the damper is building force very quickly, 3.17 lbs of force in 0.01". Compared to a more gradual buildup and 2.52 lbs at the same spot. Not a big difference I know, but one of the complaints that I have heard is that in order to get good small bump compliance riders are running very look air spring pressures and tokens to keep from bottoming out. Figure 2 is zoomed in on the part of the graph in question.


I think what you are seeing is the knee in the curve due to the stack preload in the Pike. Just a guess, not knowing what it is being compared to. It's much easier to see this (digression/progression) in damping coefficient vs velocity plots.



Andrew BAsport said:


> Now is 40 inches per second enough velocity? That I do not know for sure. I have done some research and from what I have found it might not be the max you would see in compression, but it could be faster than you would see in rebound. I will be purchasing a data system soon&#8230;.so I will know more once I have done some trail testing.


A fork will definitely see more than 40ips. Not sure what would be max but I would say 80-100ips wouldn't be out of the question from what little data I've seen. There are a couple threads floating around here showing instrumented trail data from Push and Beanbag.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

40 in/s is pretty slow but it's good enough to get an idea on the behaviour of the damper. If you want to characterise completely the whole range of velocities on a damper for an all mountain fork, you will need a dyno that runs peak velocity at around 150-200 in/s.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> 40 in/s is pretty slow but it's good enough to get an idea on the behaviour of the damper. If you want to characterise completely the whole range of velocities on a damper for an all mountain fork, you will need a dyno that runs peak velocity at around 150-200 in/s.


Beanbag said it quite well, there's no point paying 5x as much for a machine to give you 5% more data which you can probably extrapolate anyway.


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Andrew BAsport said:


> I cannot speak for the RC, however I have tested the RT3 for a friend of mine and I found some interesting things. The testing was carried out on a Roehrig shock dyno with only the damper cartridge installed. That way I was able to isolate the force generated by the damper. I have found that the friction created by the fork chassis (stations running on seals and bushings) makes it difficult to evaluate the damper functions. I also did all of my testing in the compression open setting as in this setting the low speed compression adjustment is active.
> 
> 1.	The compression seems pretty soft to me. But I am new to the MTB market, most of my work has been with cars, so I am having to adjust what my brain views as adequate force numbers! That said I compared it with a fork from another manufacturer (brand Z) and as you can see in Figure 1, it is softer. I am not trying to say one is better than the other so I will leave the identity of Brand Z out of this discussion.
> 
> ...


As I both work extensively in both MTB and Motorsports I can tell you it will be an eye opener! Looking at your site you do a lot in road racing where you're dealing with a lot of low amplitude, low velocity, high frequency events. In that arena as you know most everything happens between 0-10"/sec with big events reaching up to 20"/sec. Once you hook a data logger(we actually use the AIM road race units modified for our application) to a bike you'll quickly see peak rebound velocities more than 3 times that amount on rebound, while compression events are 100"/sec+ as has been mentioned.

You welcome to watch the whole thing, buy if you fast forward about half way in you'll see our EMA running playback data from on-board a Santa Cruz Nomad. This particular data has rebound velocity peaks at 48"/sec and compression at a tick over 120"/sec and frequency in some sections excedding 100hz:

First Look: Push Industries Elevensix Coil Shock - Exclusive Behind the Scenes Feature - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB

Darren


----------



## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Andrew,

Yes, I agree. The knee would be in a higher velocity range and the slope would be the same after the knee. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

I've just bought a Pike 150 27.5 to replace a Fox 34. 

I see the Pike has 2mm LESS offset (42 on Pike vs 44 on Fox). 

I know there's lots on here who have made the same switch. Did you notice any difference?

Theoretically, the less offset should slow down steering a touch, which I'm fine with. 

It would also mean a little shorter wheelbase. Is that (marginally less stability) noticeable?

Thanks


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

I somehow posted this further back in thread so just re-doing here:

I've just bought a Pike 150 27.5 to replace a Fox 34. 

I see the Pike has 2mm LESS offset (42 on Pike vs 44 on Fox). 

I know there's lots on here who have made the same switch. Did you notice any difference?

Theoretically, the less offset should slow down steering a touch, which I'm fine with. 

It would also mean a little shorter wheelbase. Is that (marginally less stability) noticeable?

Thanks


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

jon123 said:


> I somehow posted this further back in thread so just re-doing here:
> 
> I've just bought a Pike 150 27.5 to replace a Fox 34.
> 
> ...


wow, if 2mm is meant to be noticeable in that regard, it's lost on me lol


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

*Bike experiment today* FWIW.

Set up my Giant Trance Adv SX with 20% sag in the Pike solo air 150 (27.5) and 20% sag in the Float-X.

- Ridden on fast flowing trails characterised by high speed chatter and occasional technical irregularities.
- Riders weight 72kg (154lbs)
- 20% sag set fork and shock to 65psi and 145psi respectively.
- Pike has 1 token installed.
- no LSC.
- 10 clicks rebound from fully open.
- Fox Float-X rebound approx middle and run on trail mode (setting 2)

*Findings:*

1. bike felt really well balanced overall, compression a bit too poppy up front given small scale of impacts (amplitudes).

2. dropped fork pressure to 55psi and sped up rebound to hare a click. Felt significantly better as compression hits were lessened. Importantly, bike still felt well-balanced.

3. tried 50psi and sped up rebound to hare a click, performed even better.

4. Wasn't keen to go lower than 50psi. Leaving at 50psi I then re-tried it with 10 clicks out rebound and I think it may have been marginally better than at 8 (from fully out).

Final settings for forest trails: 50psi, 1 token, no LSC and 10 clicks rebound.


----------



## WoodstockMTB (Oct 5, 2010)

Quick question.....does there seem to be a mix of forks that come with Sag measurements on the stanchions and some that don't? Thought this was standard on all 2014+ RS Forks. My newly ordered fork came without.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

WoodstockMTB said:


> Quick question.....does there seem to be a mix of forks that come with Sag measurements on the stanchions and some that don't? Thought this was standard on all 2014+ RS Forks. My newly ordered fork came without.


140mm (and I think any under 140mm) of the 29 inch versions All came without the measurements.


----------



## WoodstockMTB (Oct 5, 2010)

Thanks....that answers my concern. Thought maybe I got a random OEM model or something.


----------



## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

I'd imagine they are forgoing the graphics due to the prevalence of travel changes. I've got my 29" 160 dropped to 120 so indicators are pretty much useless (good for 150-160).


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

Nope, you're good.
Enjoy the new fork!


WoodstockMTB said:


> Thanks....that answers my concern. Thought maybe I got a random OEM model or something.


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

Just to chime in, I have ridden a 26" pike for all of last summer and just got a new 650b rct3 on a new bike.

I'm 75kg, 85psi, no tokens, rebound about in the middle, 4-5 clicks in lsc. I found my previous pike took quite a while to bed in, I think the seals are quite tight from the factory. After a few weeks it felt noticeably plusher and I even had to run a few more psi. Will wait to say if this happens with the new one. Also found myself potentially running one token for the bike park, not done any big drops or jumps yet though so will wait to see about that.

From my experience the fork runs really well with higher pressure. Firm but controlled at slow speeds, and just seems supportive without being harsh when you get going. I love it.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

jimlads said:


> Just to chime in, I have ridden a 26" pike for all of last summer and just got a new 650b rct3 on a new bike.
> 
> I'm 75kg, 85psi, no tokens, rebound about in the middle, 4-5 clicks in lsc. I found my previous pike took quite a while to bed in, I think the seals are quite tight from the factory. After a few weeks it felt noticeably plusher and I even had to run a few more psi. Will wait to say if this happens with the new one. Also found myself potentially running one token for the bike park, not done any big drops or jumps yet though so will wait to see about that.
> 
> From my experience the fork runs really well with higher pressure. Firm but controlled at slow speeds, and just seems supportive without being harsh when you get going. I love it.


Interesting, - it's nearly opposite to, or, say, quite different, from my setup:
I am ~78kg (without gear), 26" 160 rct3 solo.
65psi, no tokens, rebound 2-3 clicks from the fastest, 0 to 1 click lsc (softest setting).
Usually leaves ~1.5cm unused travel. Actually, never bottomed out it. Stays very high in travel most of the time (which I love).

I played quite a bit w. the setup. Lower pressures are absolutely no go with that fork. Fastest rebound gives very good support but makes fast riding over small-to-medium obstacles significantly rougher than slower rebound which somewhat loose the supportive feel in the mid stroke. So it's (as usual) a trade off. 
Also, a balance betw. the rear sus and the fork setup makes a huge difference (not that I am inventing a wheel  ).
Excellent fork for fast and rough bombing down though.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

I've got a new 150mm 27.5 RCT3
It doesn't fully extend. Sags down to about the 10% mark which is 10mm. 
If I pull on the fork it will fully extend. 
I know this has been an issue with some in the past. Some have had it where it sags 20-30mm. 
Is there an easy fix?
Thanks


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Paulki...and you dont find with that 65psi that the fork pings off mid size obstacles? I found that with the pike with my recommended 65psi, its the only real reason I lower the pressure. Also with the very fast rebound I would have thought that would accentuate the issue?



paulki said:


> Interesting, - it's nearly opposite to, or, say, quite different, from my setup:
> I am ~78kg (without gear), 26" 160 rct3 solo.
> 65psi, no tokens, rebound 2-3 clicks from the fastest, 0 to 1 click lsc (softest setting).
> Usually leaves ~1.5cm unused travel. Actually, never bottomed out it. Stays very high in travel most of the time (which I love).
> ...


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

paulki said:


> Interesting, - it's nearly opposite to, or, say, quite different, from my setup:
> I am ~78kg (without gear), 26" 160 rct3 solo.
> 65psi, no tokens, rebound 2-3 clicks from the fastest, 0 to 1 click lsc (softest setting)
> 
> I played quite a bit w. the setup. Lower pressures are absolutely no go with that fork. Fastest rebound gives very good support but makes fast riding over small-to-medium obstacles significantly rougher than slower rebound which somewhat loose the supportive feel in the mid stroke.


I find running more pressure provides the support, and running a little more rebound damping results in a smooth action going over fast small bumps. I don't get any spiking or harshness going fast - quite the opposite

Edit - I should add I havnt actually checked how many clicks in my rebound is. It's still at the default the shop had it at, which they said was middle. I'll check this. Also I have bottomed the fork a few times with these settings (only had the new bike 3 weeks)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

lucifuge said:


> Paulki...and you dont find with that 65psi that the fork pings off mid size obstacles? I found that with the pike with my recommended 65psi, its the only real reason I lower the pressure. Also with the very fast rebound I would have thought that would accentuate the issue?


My explanation to the fact that (in my case) a faster rebound helps and results in smoother ride is that when it's rough and I go fast, with a slower setup the fork just does not have time to recover in time from the previous hit. So, the solution is either more pressure or faster rebound. Since I haven't yet bottomed it, I choose the lowest possible pressure, that with nearly fastest rebound can cope with the above situation. I may try increase the pressure and slow down the rebound to compare, but I think 'my way' should work better in most cases but bottom out.


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Andrew BAsport said:


> Thank for all of the input everybody! It is pretty exciting to think of velocities approaching 200ips&#8230;yup I am pretty into dampers and the lives they live. This is all great information, I am glad there are others around here who are also interesting in understanding how these amazing devices work.
> 
> Thanks Dougal. That is what I was thinking, but I did not know for sure.
> 
> ...


The AiM stuff by far has been the most reliable robust systems we've worked with. Combine that with all of the options and programability and you've got everything you could ever need. As for the EMA....I'll never be able to work without one!

Darren


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

..actually I've never tried VERY fast rebound on the pike. I think 5 out from fast is fastest I've gone. I might try from nothing and test from there. Thanks for you info.



paulki said:


> My explanation to the fact that (in my case) a faster rebound helps and results in smoother ride is that when it's rough and I go fast, with a slower setup the fork just does not have time to recover in time from the previous hit. So, the solution is either more pressure or faster rebound. Since I haven't yet bottomed it, I choose the lowest possible pressure, that with nearly fastest rebound can cope with the above situation. I may try increase the pressure and slow down the rebound to compare, but I think 'my way' should work better in most cases but bottom out.


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

Well I rode some proper dh trails yesterday in Squamish , steep rooty off the back of the bike goodness. I'll try 80psi and slightly faster rebound as I didn't bottom the fork and I feel I should have used a little more travel than I did. But then I could ride it faster than my early season arms/balls allowed 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tw0leftskis (Aug 10, 2011)

I bought a pike 120mm 51mm offset for my nimble 9. The N9 is setup for SS. I should have known the pike doesn't have 100% lockout because I have one on my ibis hdr. Does anyone know if Avalanche racing can modify the lock out to 100%. Standing and mashing on the pedal with a soft lock out is not fun. I'm beginning to regret this purchase. 
Does the rockshox sid have 100% lockout.?


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

tw0leftskis said:


> I bought a pike 120mm 51mm offset for my nimble 9. The N9 is setup for SS. I should have known the pike doesn't have 100% lockout because I have one on my ibis hdr. Does anyone know if Avalanche racing can modify the lock out to 100%. Standing and mashing on the pedal with a soft lock out is not fun. I'm beginning to regret this purchase.
> Does the rockshox sid have 100% lockout.?


Sounds as if your lock out isn't working correctly. It should be a 100% lockout with a blow off capability. Perhaps you are not running enough psi? Or if the Charger Damper is low on fluid it will also cause the lock out to not work correctly.


----------



## tw0leftskis (Aug 10, 2011)

I have about 60 psi in the fork. I'll have the LBS I got it from look into it.


----------



## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

spunkmtb said:


> Sounds as if your lock out isn't working correctly. It should be a 100% lockout with a blow off capability. ...


I had couple of Pike's and have one now, 1 of my friends have a Pike. None of the forks had a complete lockout. Rebas have complete lockout with blowoff, Pike's do not.


----------



## zongman (Jul 28, 2014)

El_Zilcho said:


> I had couple of Pike's and have one now, 1 of my friends have a Pike. None of the forks had a complete lockout. Rebas have complete lockout with blowoff, Pike's do not.


agreed, the compression just goes way up. it still damps some.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

El_Zilcho said:


> I had couple of Pike's and have one now, 1 of my friends have a Pike. None of the forks had a complete lockout. Rebas have complete lockout with blowoff, Pike's do not.


Same experience here. Never seen a Pike that fully locks out.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Pike is a strange choice for a SS bike. Usually you would want a more XC-oriented fork that does have 100% lockout with blowoff. It's probably also way longer axle-to-crown than the Nimble 9 was designed for...


----------



## tw0leftskis (Aug 10, 2011)

ColinL said:


> Pike is a strange choice for a SS bike. Usually you would want a more XC-oriented fork that does have 100% lockout with blowoff. It's probably also way longer axle-to-crown than the Nimble 9 was designed for...


It was a toss up between the Sid or pike. Might have to put the pike up for sale soon.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I have my own pics. The similarity is the function, not the aesthetics.
> 
> Both the pike rc and tst2 run shims so stiff they are essentially a lockout blowoff. The flow is almost entirely through the large internal bypass.


So this is why my Pike RC feels like a dive-y harsh turd. I'm guessing a crossover shim (or just thinner shims/less aggressive taper) with a tighter clicker setting would do the trick.

What's your take on the mid-valve setup?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> So this is why my Pike RC feels like a dive-y harsh turd. I'm guessing a crossover shim (or just thinner shims/less aggressive taper) with a tighter clicker setting would do the trick.
> 
> What's your take on the mid-valve setup?


I don't think I got deep enough into the damper to look for a mid-valve. I was pretty tight for time and only had the chance to soften up the compression stack.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

What did you end up at for a stack? Just need a temporary fix for this fork until I get something else on here. Guess that ultra-beefy stack is just a little too enduro for me..


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> What did you end up at for a stack? Just need a temporary fix for this fork until I get something else on here. Guess that ultra-beefy stack is just a little too enduro for me..


I removed the pre-load ring and split it to about half the shims. But I haven't ridden the bike or fork to feel the change.
Mudguard was reporting an improvement, but maybe not enough.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

It actually uses a preload ring in the middle of the stack?? Like a large ID ring in the middle of the face shims to give the stack a lot more initial stiffness?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> It actually uses a preload ring in the middle of the stack?? Like a large ID ring in the middle of the face shims to give the stack a lot more initial stiffness?


Yep. Just behind the first shim on the piston.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Dougal said:


> I removed the pre-load ring and split it to about half the shims. But I haven't ridden the bike or fork to feel the change.
> Mudguard was reporting an improvement, but maybe not enough.


I did mean to update this. As mention, Dougal took apart my fork at my request. I've felt that fork was too stiff and required lower and lower pressure to get more travel. I'm 75kg (165lb) and can only bottom the fork at lower than useful pressure (around 30psi). Even at 45psi and about 30% sag I cannot bottom this fork.
Any by bottom, I want to use maybe 150mm per ride, I haven't tested it's bottoming ability by wheelie dropping to flat or anything insane, just normal trail riding.

NB. For high speed bike park, DH riding, 55-60psi works really well, but I'll still only use 130mm.

So Dougal removed some of the shims. I still can't bottom the fork, but will be testing it within an inch of it's life this Saturday (as will Dougal's Mattoc!)

I guess my point is that I want a trail fork that can handle some tough riding, but be used for general trail riding. I've no doubt I could bottom the fork doing something stupid, but I've never seen the o-ring at the top of stanchions for normal trail riding. So I'll have Dougal play with the shims again.


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

Depends on what constitutes trail riding where you are 

That said im at 80psi now and getting close to bottoming but not quite. But I like to be fairly light on the bike if possible. I tried less rebound damping, but it feels a little harsh. That could be down to the dry weather too though, the ground is getting hard


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jimlads said:


> Depends on what constitutes trail riding where you are


We'll be here on Saturday: Vital RAW - Eddie Masters // Reece Potter // Skyline MTB Park Madness - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB

The type of riding we've been doing is pedal/push up and take a DH track back down. So yeah it's a decent test of suspension.

This is probably a fair representation of the riding in my area:


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Mudguard25 said:


> I did mean to update this. As mention, Dougal took apart my fork at my request. I've felt that fork was too stiff and required lower and lower pressure to get more travel. I'm 75kg (165lb) and can only bottom the fork at lower than useful pressure (around 30psi). Even at 45psi and about 30% sag I cannot bottom this fork.
> Any by bottom, I want to use maybe 150mm per ride, I haven't tested it's bottoming ability by wheelie dropping to flat or anything insane, just normal trail riding.
> 
> NB. For high speed bike park, DH riding, 55-60psi works really well, but I'll still only use 130mm.
> ...


I've experienced none of this with my Pike RCT3. That is crazy low pressure. 
I've recently switched over from a Fox Factory 34. 
So far the Pike has lived up to its great reputation - amazing small bump feel with equally good support. 
The RockShox recommended pressure on the fork leg has been spot on. I'm 150 pounds geared and at about 55 psi. 
This gives me 25% sag and full travel on the biggest hits. That's with no tokens. 
I haven't had the chance to try it yet but I've added one token. That should give me the same small bump sensitivity but seeing if it will not bottom out.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

jon123 said:


> I've experienced none of this with my Pike *RCT3*. That is crazy low pressure.
> I've recently switched over from a Fox Factory 34.
> So far the Pike has lived up to its great reputation - amazing small bump feel with equally good support.
> The RockShox recommended pressure on the fork leg has been spot on. I'm 150 pounds geared and at about 55 psi.
> ...


Mudguard has a Pike RC.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Rick Draper said:


> Mudguard has a Pike RC.


I didn't realize there was such a difference between them.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jon123 said:


> I didn't realize there was such a difference between them.


I've found a local rider with the rtc3. So once I get some spare time (hahahaha) I'll see if I can do an internal comparison.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Another experiment:

The one thing I'd never tried with the Pike was crazy fast rebound. (Don’t think I’d ever tried going faster than 5 clicks out from fully fast). I tried it at totally open then 1,2 clicks out and NO LSC: 

With the fork at 50psi (no tokens and riders weight 72kg/154lbs) this gave sag of 27% and I increased sag to 30% on the Fox Float-X rear shock. Amazingly, the fork felt simply very reactive and compliant. Couldn’t believe it. I was expecting it to be overly bouncy with poor traction, but it was excellent. Maybe it’s a function of the damper and my weight, dunno. I also think placing a slight bias towards the shock (sag-wise) helped in this regard. It left approx 1” travel left on the Pike, but, this was in relatively smooth trails with occasional technical features. So this setup supersedes my previous experiment as preferential. 

Plan to keep it as is and try in technical area which has lots of technical features includes fast trails with braking bumps.


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

If you're running barely any air pressure then you dont need much rebound damping. However almost 30% sag on a fork sounds way too much, if you ride anything at all steep you're going to be diving over the front


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

i hear you, it is closer to 27% and i've already tested it. so far i've not had any concerns. in the more technical trials i do dial in 4 clicks or so of LSC which does help.

but at any rate, i hope to test it on weekend and I will post back how it goes. cheers



jimlads said:


> If you're running barely any air pressure then you dont need much rebound damping. However almost 30% sag on a fork sounds way too much, if you ride anything at all steep you're going to be diving over the front


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jimlads said:


> If you're running barely any air pressure then you dont need much rebound damping. However almost 30% sag on a fork sounds way too much, if you ride anything at all steep you're going to be diving over the front


Low speed damping should be keeping dive controlled. But you need to sort out the shims and close the bypass a fair bit for that to work.


----------



## nmora (Sep 5, 2014)

I'm sure this question has been asked before but can't seem to find the answer.
On the LSC, what is closed? All the way counter clockwise or clockwise?
Same goes for rebound? My pike "works". I'm just not entirely happy, and it's based on not knowing how to set it up other than sag.
I weigh 189lbs geared up. I prefer a plush setting, that eats up roots and small stuff.
Any help is appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

SO there should 14 clicks of LSC which only works in the open mode. Turning it all anticlockwise is fully off, all way clockwise is fully on.

You will get a different answer to everyone. For me, I found on my 27.5 dually that 27% and 30% sag front and rear respectively is best (both measured in attack position). The slight difference unloads the fork a tad than an equal amount might do, the idea is to maximise plushness at the fork. I also found the fork running very fast rebound works best. I cant distinguish between 0,1 2 clicks out from fully fast from a single testing of this, but, it felt really good.

Now in trails which are flowing and uneventful, I leave LSC fully OFF. For my other technical areas i will dials some in, but how much I still am yet to test. I would be expecting something between 1 and 6 clicks out from fully OFF.

Unfortunately you will need to find your own 'truth' as opinions range wildly.



nmora said:


> I'm sure this question has been asked before but can't seem to find the answer.
> On the LSC, what is closed? All the way counter clockwise or clockwise?
> Same goes for rebound? My pike "works". I'm just not entirely happy, and it's based on not knowing how to set it up other than sag.
> I weigh 189lbs geared up. I prefer a plush setting, that eats up roots and small stuff.
> Any help is appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## nmora (Sep 5, 2014)

Thank you Lucifuge, it clarifies A LOT. I have been turning those knobs both ways and havent felt much...will play with it this weekend and report! Thanks!


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Full travel achieved. My pump reads really low .


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Low speed damping should be keeping dive controlled. But you need to sort out the shims and close the bypass a fair bit for that to work.


Did you manage to get any pictures of the shim stacks?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mudguard25 said:


> Full travel achieved. My pump reads really low .


I'm claiming that one. I did the last lap on your bike and slid the o-ring down when I started.
But it was all the way up before that.

Still harsh, but at least we've got full stroke now.



TomMtb said:


> Did you manage to get any pictures of the shim stacks?


Yes I did. I plan to do a detailed when I've got the time.


----------



## yoebanshee (Aug 8, 2014)

hye guys...

newbies here... need your opinion from the video below..
i did a small jump and record it just to test the pike... do u think i need a bottomless token?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

yoebanshee said:


> hye guys...
> 
> newbies here... need your opinion from the video below..
> i did a small jump and record it just to test the pike... do u think i need a bottomless token?


how much is your riders weight?


----------



## yoebanshee (Aug 8, 2014)

-edited-


----------



## yoebanshee (Aug 8, 2014)

lucifuge said:


> how much is your riders weight?


im +- 68kg or 150 lbs .. my full gear is about 2-3kg .. so i can say 150 - 155 lbs


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

spot on with me!

I have tried with both and found no real difference. I think I get more out of the fork by keeping it linear. If you are approaching fully used travel, the better solution would be to add some air with no tokens. Just enough to solve the issue.

That's my 2c


yoebanshee said:


> im +- 68kg or 150 lbs .. my full gear is about 2-3kg .. so i can say 150 - 155 lbs


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

yoebanshee said:


> hye guys...
> 
> newbies here... need your opinion from the video below..
> i did a small jump and record it just to test the pike... do u think i need a bottomless token?


Firstly it is difficult to clearly answer, not because I don't know your weight, but because you are so far over the front of the bike. It would look different with a more balanced riding position. Rebound looks OK but out of time with the rear of the bike. However, while you are blowing through your travel, that includes after the landing when there is much more progressive force applied to the fork. Looks like you need more air, not a token.


----------



## yoebanshee (Aug 8, 2014)

Ridnparadise said:


> Firstly it is difficult to clearly answer, not because I don't know your weight, but because you are so far over the front of the bike. It would look different with a more balanced riding position. Rebound looks OK but out of time with the rear of the bike. However, while you are blowing through your travel, that includes after the landing when there is much more progressive force applied to the fork. Looks like you need more air, not a token.


 ah ! will try to add some air and test it later.. thanx!!

actually , im trying to smash is just to test the bottom out.. clearly i dont know what im doin.. hehehe.. appreciate your suggestion sir 



lucifuge said:


> spot on with me!
> 
> I have tried with both and found no real difference. I think I get more out of the fork by keeping it linear. If you are approaching fully used travel, the better solution would be to add some air with no tokens. Just enough to solve the issue.
> 
> That's my 2c


  ..thanx... honestly, i just follow the recommendation to use 25% - 30% of sag.. never think about adding some air though.. but definitely will try later.

thanx again guys


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

I've always find that with air forks, it more like 20-25% of SAG to be the best option. But from your video, you still have a lot of travel left (like ~4-5cm). The travel o-ring on my Pike RC goes all the way to the crown. And trust me, you hear and feel when the fork bottoms out.

I'm ~87kg and ride with 80psi (no tokens, 26" 160mm RC) and find that setup to give me a 25% SAG in attack position. Feel that that's the point where I have balance in my front to rear. Tried 15psi more but on every kicker/jump my front end threw me on my back. But damn I like that fork. Saved me a bunch of times!


----------



## yoebanshee (Aug 8, 2014)

Vuco said:


> I've always find that with air forks, it more like 20-25% of SAG to be the best option. But from your video, you still have a lot of travel left (like ~4-5cm). The travel o-ring on my Pike RC goes all the way to the crown. And trust me, you hear and feel when the fork bottoms out.
> 
> I'm ~87kg and ride with 80psi (no tokens, 26" 160mm RC) and find that setup to give me a 25% SAG in attack position. Feel that that's the point where I have balance in my front to rear. Tried 15psi more but on every kicker/jump my front end threw me on my back. But damn I like that fork. Saved me a bunch of times!


 yup,it still got a few cm left.. but it is just a small jump... never test it on a big drop / jump , but i assume it will bottoming out if i do so.. (just assuming..)

i'll follow the suggestion and try to add up some air to 20-25 % SAG.. will give it a try this weekend and update later.


----------



## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

yoebanshee said:


> hye guys...
> 
> newbies here... need your opinion from the video below..
> i did a small jump and record it just to test the pike... do u think i need a bottomless token?


I would suggest getting the sag set, then you can work from there. If you bottom out while jumping then chances are you'll need a token.
I'm 190lbs, 27% sag, 1 token and rarely bottom out, and we ride pretty aggressive. You know what they say, you have all that travel, use it.


----------



## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

For some reason I can't get that mystical last 10mm of extension on a brand new pike 160mm - I've completely let out the air and pumped it up to 150 multiple times, stuck a zip tie under the seals for good measure... Just live with it and ride or is this something worth pursuing?


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

baltik said:


> For some reason I can't get that mystical last 10mm of extension on a brand new pike 160mm - I've completely let out the air and pumped it up to 150 multiple times, stuck a zip tie under the seals for good measure... Just live with it and ride or is this something worth pursuing?
> 
> in the pic you attach, it looks fully extended and sitting at nearly 0 mark...


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Dougal said:


> I'm claiming that one. I did the last lap on your bike and slid the o-ring down when I started.
> But it was all the way up before that.
> 
> Still harsh, but at least we've got full stroke now.
> ...


very much looking forward to it. If by any chance you manage to get a little bit of free time would you be able to send me the raw photos? Do not worry if it's too much of a hassle 



baltik said:


> For some reason I can't get that mystical last 10mm of extension on a brand new pike 160mm - I've completely let out the air and pumped it up to 150 multiple times, stuck a zip tie under the seals for good measure... Just live with it and ride or is this something worth pursuing?
> View attachment 975103


EDIT: Woops! thought you meant bottoming and not extension, ignore this


----------



## Jlowe33 (Jan 28, 2015)

TomMtb said:


> Don't pursue it, I never bottomed for a few months then one day did a step down that was a bit crooked and bottomed them out. So it's not a mechanical fault but now it's my goal to ride harder so I can bottom them out without changing the air pressure.


I have the same problem with my fork. It will compress all the way no problem, but will not fully extend unless I force the lowers down. It will then sink back down about 10mm.


----------



## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

Right - the pikes measure out 163mm, so 3mm below the 0 line. I am missing ~8mm


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

Baltik, yours is OK. Why do you think you are missing the 8mm ? The Pike with 160mm of travel is like 163-164mm while fully extended, and you can see that you are near the 0% SAG for the 160mm travel.

On the other hand JLowe33 it looks like you have 150mm Pike model or your negative chamber isn't equalized with the positive. Or air in the lowers that creates vacuume. Been there done that after servicing the fork and making a mistake in compressing the fork while bolting the lowers.

Loving mine 160 RC. Silky smooth on small and high speed bumps, excellent traction of the front. High in travel all the time, and using almost full travel, but no bottom out.




(skip to 0:43 for the action)


----------



## Jlowe33 (Jan 28, 2015)

Vuco said:


> Baltik, yours is OK. Why do you think you are missing the 8mm ? The Pike with 160mm of travel is like 163-164mm while fully extended, and you can see that you are near the 0% SAG for the 160mm travel.
> 
> On the other hand JLowe33 it looks like you have 150mm Pike model or your negative chamber isn't equalized with the positive. Or air in the lowers that creates vacuume. Been there done that after servicing the fork and making a mistake in compressing the fork while bolting the lowers.
> 
> ...


It's a 160 that came on my Norco Range. I can extend it the rest of the way by hand, but it vacuums back down to that point. I've heard of maybe grease being stuck in the dimple. Would I have to disassemble the fork and clean out the grease? I tried to cycle the fork with no air and if I forced it to extend, it would blow oil out of the wipers


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

My guess it is not the grease in the dimple. You could check that out easily - pump more pressure in the positive chamber and extend the lowers by hand so the higher pressure passes from the pos. chamber to the negative. It should remove the grease if any in the dimple.

2nd guess - vacuum in the lowers. Didn't read if you mentioned somewhere in the thread, but did you try to pass a small zip-tie thru both of the dust wipers ? Or remove the bolts on the bottom of the lowers if you are afraid the zip-ties would damage the dust seals/wipers. Also check how much oil is there in the lowers.

3rd guess - something wrong with the charger damper (!?), remove it from the fork and see if it extends.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Did it really blow oil out of the wipers? Forcing it to extend would mean less pressure inside the lowers but if oil didn't blow out normally I don't see why it would now. Very strange :s


----------



## Jlowe33 (Jan 28, 2015)

I'll try it one more time this weekend and see what happens. I'll report back with what I find out


----------



## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

My lower bushings have just given up th ghost. --- what do I do?


----------



## marcus_dukakis (Apr 25, 2005)

So i was attempting to service my lowers on my Pike and i cant remove the foot bolt on the damper side. The bolt spins freely in both directions now and i cant even get it tight now. Have i stripped the threads? I'm 99% certain i didnt over tighten it last time i changed the oil. Has anyone got any tips for what to do?


----------



## morandi (Jun 20, 2008)

This happened when my fork was serviced. It occurs if that bolt is over-torqued. The damper rod is detached from its mounting. No easy fix. Either you have to cut the bolt off, or if you can find a tight fitting allen bit you can try engaging and pulling on the bolt as you turn to loosen it. Sometimes you can get it to come off.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

baltik said:


> For some reason I can't get that mystical last 10mm of extension on a brand new pike 160mm - I've completely let out the air and pumped it up to 150 multiple times, stuck a zip tie under the seals for good measure... Just live with it and ride or is this something worth pursuing?
> View attachment 975103


Mine did this and removing the lower bolts let the equalize. But very shortly thereafter the problem returned.

The fork was due for service so I took off th lowers and changed out all the seals which fixed the problem.

With your being new, I'd call SRAM.


----------



## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

i had a Lyrik with that " problem " ,try to compress the suspension a bit and turn the srew at the same time.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

marcus_dukakis said:


> So i was attempting to service my lowers on my Pike and i cant remove the foot bolt on the damper side. The bolt spins freely in both directions now and i cant even get it tight now. Have i stripped the threads? I'm 99% certain i didnt over tighten it last time i changed the oil. Has anyone got any tips for what to do?


Take your fork off the bike, fill the air spring with 70-80 psi or so, take a strap clamp and wrap it around the steerer tube and upper crown then through the lower crown so you can compress the fork. Compress the fork as much as you feel is safe and tighten the strap clamp to hold it in the compressed state. Then use an impact type wrench to loosen the stuck lower leg bolt. If it's the damper side that's stuck, turn up the LS compression dampener all the way clockwise as well as the rebound damper. They might help apply some added resistance to the dampener cartridge which could help you free the bolt.


----------



## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

This also happened to me twice. The first time the compression trick worked. The second time I gave up and it got sent for a warranty fix and service. I have not gone to remove the bolt since. But it is coming up for a oil change. My lbs advised to totally undo the bolts and then replace before hitting with the hammer. Some say it may have been a issue with the white loc-tight which is on the bolt from the factory.


----------



## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Another issue is that the threads on the damper shaft are pretty soft. If the foot nut isn't threaded enough when you whack it with the mallet, the threads are easily damaged. Once you get the bolt off, look for and remove any burrs in the damper threads, then chase it with the bolt (lowers off) a few times until it goes smoothly again. The torque Sram suggests is too high, imo, and I give it a little less on reassembly.


----------



## Jlowe33 (Jan 28, 2015)

Well I got the chance to pull my fork apart today.. after I got it put back together and aired up, it is still sticking down about 10mm in its travel. I can pull on the lowers to achieve the full 160, but it feels "dry". When I had it apart I was cycling the damper side and it didn't feel smooth at all. Felt like it was sticking. It's pretty frustrating since this is a brand new fork. Should I just go ahead and get the damper serviced??


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Jlowe33 said:


> Well I got the chance to pull my fork apart today.. after I got it put back together and aired up, it is still sticking down about 10mm in its travel. I can pull on the lowers to achieve the full 160, but it feels "dry". When I had it apart I was cycling the damper side and it didn't feel smooth at all. Felt like it was sticking. It's pretty frustrating since this is a brand new fork. Should I just go ahead and get the damper serviced??


How many hours on the fork? I'd make sure it was broken in before sending it in?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jlowe33 said:


> Well I got the chance to pull my fork apart today.. after I got it put back together and aired up, it is still sticking down about 10mm in its travel. I can pull on the lowers to achieve the full 160, but it feels "dry". When I had it apart I was cycling the damper side and it didn't feel smooth at all. Felt like it was sticking. It's pretty frustrating since this is a brand new fork. Should I just go ahead and get the damper serviced??


Charge dampers are full of oil. So a rough feeling is mainly because the seals haven't bedded in yet. Ride it and it'll get better.

Then later on put a more slippery oil in if needed. RS oil doesn't lubricate very well, but many damper fluids don't.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Going to service lower legs, and may be inspect the charger, after ~half a year riding. 
What is the correct routine reg. the COMPRESSION of the fork before complete assembly and bolts are tighten?
It seems, there are 2 schools: one says - assemble and bolt fully extended, another - fully compressed...
How to avoid those problems with the serviced fork not extending to its full length?
Also, what about those bolts that made of very soft material - how not to damage them when knocking with a mallet to disassemble?

Thanks in advance for any insight and help
Paul


----------



## yoebanshee (Aug 8, 2014)

lucifuge said:


> spot on with me!
> 
> I have tried with both and found no real difference. I think I get more out of the fork by keeping it linear. If you are approaching fully used travel, the better solution would be to add some air with no tokens. Just enough to solve the issue.
> 
> That's my 2c





Ridnparadise said:


> Firstly it is difficult to clearly answer, not because I don't know your weight, but because you are so far over the front of the bike. It would look different with a more balanced riding position. Rebound looks OK but out of time with the rear of the bike. However, while you are blowing through your travel, that includes after the landing when there is much more progressive force applied to the fork. Looks like you need more air, not a token.





Vuco said:


> I've always find that with air forks, it more like 20-25% of SAG to be the best option. But from your video, you still have a lot of travel left (like ~4-5cm). The travel o-ring on my Pike RC goes all the way to the crown. And trust me, you hear and feel when the fork bottoms out.
> 
> I'm ~87kg and ride with 80psi (no tokens, 26" 160mm RC) and find that setup to give me a 25% SAG in attack position. Feel that that's the point where I have balance in my front to rear. Tried 15psi more but on every kicker/jump my front end threw me on my back. But damn I like that fork. Saved me a bunch of times!





Bent Wheel said:


> I would suggest getting the sag set, then you can work from there. If you bottom out while jumping then chances are you'll need a token.
> I'm 190lbs, 27% sag, 1 token and rarely bottom out, and we ride pretty aggressive. You know what they say, you have all that travel, use it.


UPDATE...

Try to increase my sag from 26%-27% to 16-18%... after 3 ride @ 3 different trail , notice that i cant use all the travel like before... o-ring show there's 3-4 cm unused travel now... feel a little bit harsh.. (just a little but still acceptable)

My personal opinion, i think the sweetest spot is around 20-22% sag for me... (will ride again tomorrow with 20% sag)

Thanx to those who share their knowledge with me here...


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

paulki said:


> Going to service lower legs, and may be inspect the charger, after ~half a year riding.
> What is the correct routine reg. the COMPRESSION of the fork before complete assembly and bolts are tighten?
> It seems, there are 2 schools: one says - assemble and bolt fully extended, another - fully compressed...
> How to avoid those problems with the serviced fork not extending to its full length?
> ...


Any thoughts - anyone?..


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I thought the point was to NOT fully compress the fork as it causes issues if you do.

Use a rubber mallet, should be fine, preferably you use enough pressure with 1 or 2 hits only on each bolt



paulki said:


> Any thoughts - anyone?..


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

paulki said:


> Any thoughts - anyone?..


>Don't compress the forks when tightening the bolt
>Knock the bolts after loosening by two full turns, knock until the bolt is flush with the lowers then try to remove the lowers after taking the bolts out. If still won't come off, put bolt back in and until flush (NO TORQUE JUST FLUSH AND NO MORE) and turn a 1/4 anti clockwise then knock again and repeat if necessary


----------



## johndeere (May 5, 2010)

lucifuge said:


> ...crazy fast rebound.... Amazingly, the fork felt simply very reactive and compliant. Couldn't believe it. I was expecting it to be overly bouncy with poor traction, but it was excellent...


It's the same thing I did last weekend. I kept turning the rebound-ajuster more & more towards slower because of a very rough feel on the front wheel. But I think the mistake was that i was riding in a bit of sag where harsh bumps (roots) could get me out of the travel anymore leading to a harsh ride. Now with "quicker" rebound, I can get out of the compression better which made up for a way better overall feel.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Dougal said:


> I'm claiming that one. I did the last lap on your bike and slid the o-ring down when I started.
> But it was all the way up before that.
> 
> Still harsh, but at least we've got full stroke now.
> ...





TomMtb said:


> Gah, tuning this fork is a real head ache. I get 22% sag with 80 psi and about 9/14 clicks of lsc. I like the support this gives me and feels goodish through square edge hits. But I never bottom! Always 1 inch of travel to go on things that I felt like I should have bottomed out on.
> 
> Tried 75psi but it didn't have enough support or control in drops and steep sections so I like 80psi but I wish I could bottom it. Then I noticed that at 80psi and about 6 clicks from full fast that my front was skipping in flat rippled corners, so I was like ok need to slow the rebound down a bit. But then chatter feels like death.
> 
> ...


I found that actually my rebound was too fast, now at 80 psi 20% sag with about 8 - 10 clicks from full slow of rebound and finding it much much better. Another thing thats funny is that I blamed my fork for poor performance in sections where my rear shock was packing up just because I couldn't tell the difference haha.

Back home and riding in Aus with less chunk and more drops and senders. Settled with 80 psi 20% sag, 2 tokens, 9 rebound from full slow with 160mm RC.


----------



## SS220 (Jan 6, 2010)

I've just serviced the lowers on my pike and upon reassembly the rebound knob will not turn all the way, I have 1 or 2 clicks in either direction and then stuck. If I loosen the grub screw holding the knob on it works as normal and i have full range of adjustment. Any ideas what i may have done wrong?


----------



## nwdawson (Jun 17, 2006)

Lanruss, I went to my LBS and they were able to find one. Unfortunately once I said go, their distributor had sold out of stock. So I am getting a 140mm and they are replacing the air spring with a 120mm spring. As I understand it, the only difference is the sag chart on the fork. Luckily they are setting it up and I'll walk through it with them. BTW, they are replacing the air spring for no additional cost and letting me keep the 140mm spring in case I want to change it out at a later date.


----------



## Dazed (Feb 7, 2004)

I just took the first ride on my Pike (150mm 26" Solo Air), and I've put in a bottomless token since I last rode it.

I'm 220#, and with 50psi in the fork i get maybe 7-8% sag, with no LSC, in open mode (of course).

There has to be something strange going on here. Any guesses?


----------



## mikodipo (May 20, 2009)

Dazed said:


> I just took the first ride on my Pike (150mm 26" Solo Air), and I've put in a bottomless token since I last rode it.
> 
> I'm 220#, and with 50psi in the fork i get maybe 7-8% sag, with no LSC, in open mode (of course).
> 
> There has to be something strange going on here. Any guesses?


Set it up with respect to sag and not pressure and see how it rides. I have a feeling your pressure gauge is wrong... I'm 130# and run 65 psi with 1 token on a 160 pike and I get 20-25% sag.


----------



## Dazed (Feb 7, 2004)

Yeah. I've noted I ran 60 psi in it last year, without any tokens. I don't remember exactly what sag I got, though.

Reads the same on two different shock pumps.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Dazed said:


> Yeah. I've noted I ran 60 psi in it last year, without any tokens. I don't remember exactly what sag I got, though.
> 
> Reads the same on two different shock pumps.


I wonder if the equalizing port from positive to negative is plugged up or restricted and the negative chamber is not equalizing. That would make it very stiff.

For comparison sake, I'm 150ish+ riding weight and I'm at 70 psi and two tokens on my 29 140. I've checked the travel range the last few rides and I'm just barely bottoming on some of the bigger hits.

I'd suggest letting all the air out of the spring and cycling the fork a few times, fully compressed to fully extended with out any air in the spring. I'd even bleed it out when it's fully compressed a few times. Then try re-inflating the spring to see if that helps. If it does not it may need to be pulled apart, cleaned and open bath fluids replaced. I'd leave the Charger damper alone.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

manitou2200 said:


> I wonder if the equalizing port from positive to negative is plugged up or restricted and the negative chamber is not equalizing. That would make it very stiff.
> 
> For comparison sake, I'm 150ish+ riding weight and I'm at 70 psi and two tokens on my 29 140. I've check the travel range the last few rides and I'm just barely bottoming on some of the bigger hits.
> 
> I'd suggest letting all the air out of the spring and cycling the fork a few times, fully compressed to fully extended with out any air in the spring. I'd even bleed it out when it's fully compressed a few times. Then try re-inflating the spring to see if that helps. If it does not it may need to be pulled apart, cleaned and open bath fluids replaced. I'd leave the Charger damper alone.


I've also got a MRP Stage fork which fills from the bottom, negative to positive just opposite of the Pike. Any way with the Stage you bleed air off from the top bleeder in the positive chamber and not the bottom fill port, then push the fork through a bit of travel usually it equalizes pretty quick but it may take a couple compressions to do it. The point is the solo fill type air springs can be fussy sometimes.


----------



## Dazed (Feb 7, 2004)

manitou2200 said:


> I wonder if the equalizing port from positive to negative is plugged up or restricted and the negative chamber is not equalizing. That would make it very stiff.
> 
> For comparison sake, I'm 150ish+ riding weight and I'm at 70 psi and two tokens on my 29 140. I've checked the travel range the last few rides and I'm just barely bottoming on some of the bigger hits.
> 
> I'd suggest letting all the air out of the spring and cycling the fork a few times, fully compressed to fully extended with out any air in the spring. I'd even bleed it out when it's fully compressed a few times. Then try re-inflating the spring to see if that helps. If it does not it may need to be pulled apart, cleaned and open bath fluids replaced. I'd leave the Charger damper alone.


This is really strange. I let all the air out (fully extended), but sill has a pretty decent spring rate.

I tried removing the two tokens again just to see if that did anything, but that didn't change anything, except making it less progressive again, of course.

The really weir (I think) thing is that even without the top cap in place, I still have a fair bit of spring rate. Actually, It felt better then.  Where can this air be trapped?

I see some "lumps" of grease down the inside of the inner leg, but I guess that's normal.

The fork only has a few hours of use, and has been stationary for several months.

I'm stumped, and all tips will be appreciated.

I'll try some more experimenting with compressing and extending the fork with no air pressure.


----------



## SS220 (Jan 6, 2010)

Sounds like there is air trapped in the lowers. Try pushing a small zip tie past the dust seals and listen for a pssh. Then try cycling your forks again and see if this makes a difference.


----------



## Dazed (Feb 7, 2004)

Thanks. I'll try that after work!


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Quick question. I have read through this thread many times and picked up some great advice. Just as an experiment, I let all air out of the fork, and with the shrader valve pushed open with an allen wrench, tried to cycle my fork up and down. Well, down was easy, but I could not pull the fork up more than 50-75mm before it got sucked back down. This ok?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> Quick question. I have read through this thread many times and picked up some great advice. Just as an experiment, I let all air out of the fork, and with the shrader valve pushed open with an allen wrench, tried to cycle my fork up and down. Well, down was easy, but I could not pull the fork up more than 50-75mm before it got sucked back down. This ok?


Might just be vacuum in the lowers. Pikes have big issue with air building up in lowers so I guess a vacuum could happen. Try pushing a zip tie down through the seals and see if that gets rid of the vacuum. You would need to do it on both sides.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> Quick question. I have read through this thread many times and picked up some great advice. Just as an experiment, I let all air out of the fork, and with the shrader valve pushed open with an allen wrench, tried to cycle my fork up and down. Well, down was easy, but I could not pull the fork up more than 50-75mm before it got sucked back down. This ok?


http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/air-pike-lowers-psa-929695.html

Might just be vacuum in the lowers. Pikes have big issue with air building up in lowers so I guess a vacuum could happen. Try pushing a zip tie down through the seals and see if that gets rid of the vacuum. You would need to do it on both sides.


----------



## Dazed (Feb 7, 2004)

YEAH! The cable tie down the dust wiper trick worked like a charm, and the fork is it's old, plush self again! A LOT of air trapped in the left outer leg.

Thanks, guys!

The only concern is how the air got in there to begin with, but I guess I can check every once in a while, or just keep an eye on the sag


----------



## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

My red rebound knob was oily. I took off knob, checked torque of bottom bolt (it was to spec, 7.3 Nm). noticed o ring is kind of loose on bottom bolt perimeter. It sits in channel of bottom bolt. Got me thinking, why was oil there, pooled up in red rebound knob?


----------



## Znarf (Nov 12, 2005)

Hi,

has anyone had the crown-steerer-units of a 26, 27.5 and 29" Pike next to each other?

What are the differences? The stanchions are the same length, only the crowns differ?

I want to slacken the headangle of my 2014 Carbon 26 Enduro - which isn´t compatible with anglesets.

I had the idea that the crowns might be angled different for the smaller/bigger wheelsizes?
Or are they just spaced fore/aft differently to get the specific offset numbers?

Any input is appreciated. 

And I know, it´s just a little wild thinking, but why not?

Offset shock bushing is already ordered btw...


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Znarf said:


> Hi,
> 
> has anyone had the crown-steerer-units of a 26, 27.5 and 29" Pike next to each other?
> 
> ...


Not angled, only offset fore/aft. However the greater the offset the greater the trail.


----------



## Znarf (Nov 12, 2005)

Thanks!

I had another idea in the meantime. 
Specialized makes those 10mm crown races for their hacked SJ 650B bikes.

I ordered one of those, it will increase the a-c of my Setup and slacken the head angle. At the same time I will remove 10mm of spacers from under my stem and use an offset bushing.

That should slacken the bike a bit, result in not much change in BB height and lengthen the rear center by a hair.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Depending on how much slacker you want to go, you may be able to cover it with just the offset shock bushing. For every 20mm or so in A2C change affects about 1 degree of head angle. It's good to keep the stack height as low as you can on a trail bike that you'll be climbing with as well as descending.


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

Anyone else got an annoying click/tick from the stanchions / crown steerer? Happens whenever the fork hits something on trail or under braking. Quite annoying. Tried the loctite fix once but no joy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## morandi (Jun 20, 2008)

jimlads said:


> Anyone else got an annoying click/tick from the stanchions / crown steerer? Happens whenever the fork hits something on trail or under braking. Quite annoying. Tried the loctite fix once but no joy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. I do. Have not tried loctite. I think mine might have more to do with the headset interface. Sometimes if things are not seated properly or overtorqued, it can give a similar sound and effect.


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

Can't be headset. Everything is new, and recently cleaned / regreased. I can reproduce a click when I remove the front wheel and twist the lowers. Warranty issue but tried some loctite first as having to send things away leaving me without a bike is a pain


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

This same thing started with mine about 2 weeks ago. The Pike is half year old. F...k these manufacturers... I switched from Fox to RS b.c. I had to change the crown twice in 1.5 year. Now it's Pike... Is it a rocket science to design it once right?..

Anyone knows the RS warranty policy? Is it 2 years for things like that?
I bought from Bike24.de and sent it to the US. Is there any change in warranty b.c. of that?

P.S.: heard a few drops of oil help for a while. I will try today and report after a ride



jimlads said:


> Anyone else got an annoying click/tick from the stanchions / crown steerer? Happens whenever the fork hits something on trail or under braking. Quite annoying. Tried the loctite fix once but no joy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

--> RE: the loctite idea: where did you put the loctite to address the crown creaking?


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

addATX said:


> --> RE: the loctite idea: where did you put the loctite to address the crown creaking?


Around the top of the stanchions where they go into the crown, and left it overnight with the bike upside down. Also a bit on bottom of steerer tube where it goes through the crown. Hasn't made any difference though

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Design and execution/QC are two very different things...that said, RockShox has been somewhat weak on both of those for a long time.

Getting the alignment right between crowns, stanchions, bushings, castings, hub, and dropouts DOES take a certain bit of science too. Every single one of those components affects one another and it only takes a small defect in one to throw the whole thing off.


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

Mine was brand new in February


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Is it possible to a bleed on the RC cartridge without the fitting? Can I just close it, cycle it a few times, top off, and repeat 2-3x?

Would really like to remove that preload ring from the stack. Or put in whatever stack someone could suggest. I'm not wanting to put a TON of effort into this fork because I'll probably be replacing it soon, but I have plenty of 6ID and 8ID shims kicking around that I could make use of and plenty of oil.


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

GH28 said:


> Is it possible to a bleed on the RC cartridge without the fitting? Can I just close it, cycle it a few times, top off, and repeat 2-3x?
> 
> Would really like to remove that preload ring from the stack. Or put in whatever stack someone could suggest. I'm not wanting to put a TON of effort into this fork because I'll probably be replacing it soon, but I have plenty of 6ID and 8ID shims kicking around that I could make use of and plenty of oil.


I have bled my cartridge by hand. It is a little fiddly but appears 
To have worked with minimal air trapped. I followed the service manual up until the part where the adapter was fitted. Just make more effort to extract air by turning the fork on different angles ect.
It will get air in there eventually anyway. Mine were 50 to 70 hours old and filled with air.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

GH28 said:


> Would really like to remove that preload ring from the stack. Or put in whatever stack someone could suggest. I'm not wanting to put a TON of effort into this fork because I'll probably be replacing it soon, but I have plenty of 6ID and 8ID shims kicking around that I could make use of and plenty of oil.


Dougal removed shims from my 26 RC, which size and where from I couldn't tell you, I wasn't paying close attention. He took lots of photos though so he'll no doubt he'll post those up when he's got time. Made my fork considerably softer, I was having trouble getting anywhere near full travel.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Well, I can definitely bottom mine out if I go fast enough and run 25% sag, no tokens though. 20% sag, probably not bottoming. It's mostly the rough harsh feel on fast square edges that make this whole 160mm of front travel seem like it's not doing what it's supposed to.


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

GH28 said:


> Well, I can definitely bottom mine out if I go fast enough and run 25% sag, no tokens though. 20% sag, probably not bottoming. It's mostly the rough harsh feel on fast square edges that make this whole 160mm of front travel seem like it's not doing what it's supposed to.


have you got the dual position or solos?
You may find a service of the cartridge will give you back the control you are missing.
i found a modified token fixed my bottoming issues on my dual position. I dont however have too many complaints of a harsh spike in pretty rocky going. Im only 80 odd kgs geared up.

maybe just a good service will help with any binding you may be getting. Dunno.
im sure a shim shuffle could help but i havent attempted it yet.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Solo air. Been serviced recently and moves as smooth as it's ever going to, chassis-wise.


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

GH28 said:


> Is it possible to a bleed on the RC cartridge without the fitting? Can I just close it, cycle it a few times, top off, and repeat 2-3x?
> 
> Would really like to remove that preload ring from the stack. Or put in whatever stack someone could suggest. I'm not wanting to put a TON of effort into this fork because I'll probably be replacing it soon, but I have plenty of 6ID and 8ID shims kicking around that I could make use of and plenty of oil.


I just changed the oil in my pike rc3 bladder. replaced rockshox's 3 wt. with redline 2.5 wt. No special bleed tools involved. I dumped the old oil out from the top, cycling the bound shaft until empty, turned the cartridge right side up, kept filling with new oil while cycling the shaft "very" slowly until no bubbles existed, & a little more cycling. 
I could tell that all the air was gone by pushing up on the shaft when it was reassembled that no play existed, some resistance initially. 
Not hard to do, just takes a while to perform the process.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Got it, thanks.

So any way to do this without disassembling the adjuster at all? Will that whole bladder/compression assembly unthread so I can get access to the stack? Looking through the rebuild manual, and seems like a bunch of extra steps and dealing with that small circlip that I'd rather not do if I could avoid it.


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

I don't see any way to bleed that bladder, & add oil without doing it from the top.
The circlip r&r ain't tough if you have a right pliers for the job.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

That's what I was afraid of. Oh well, off to China Freight I go!


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

Your local hardware store will have adjustable circlip pliers for about $10. You will need to undo both circlips to access the base valve shim stack just below the bladder.
And as stated. There is no good way to bleed the cartridge from the bottom or without the tools.
There is method i use regularly to undo circlips with a small pick and a flat head screwdriver.


----------



## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

Maiden voyage with the 130mm 27.5 Pike on my Fule Ex yesterday. Love the fork and how the bike handled even though I added 10mm of travel. My only concern is I used all the travel on my normal trails not even riding that hard. I didn't bottom out, but was very close to it. I'm running 25% sag which is around 90PSI. I weigh 195 geared up. 

My question is that I would like to have a little travel left for those Oh-sh** moments. I loved how the fork felt, so don't know if I should add air (decrease sag) or install another bottomless token? I think for the 130mm 27.5 fork there are already 3 tokens factory installed, and you can have up to 5.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

try 20% sag, if you don't like 20% then add tokens to your current set up. if you like 20% but still bottoming then add tokens to 20% set up


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

Hello friends
almost sure that this question sounds weird but how do you count riding hours for the Pike? Service manual say 100 hours or riding prior to do a charger damper service, but not sure if I should take account of descent only, or climbing hours also.
Thanks!


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Both, when ever your fork is 'working'.


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

Yes I know but I'm trying to prolong the 100 hours service interval given that I'm already at 72 hours and the summer is coming.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

Well then its up to you whether you want to ignore rockshox's advice or not


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

H00rst said:


> Yes I know but I'm trying to prolong the 100 hours service interval given that I'm already at 72 hours and the summer is coming.


you'll probably find its already overdue for a service.


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

MeridaManiac said:


> you'll probably find its already overdue for a service.


I've already done the lower leg service at 50 hours. The 100 hours service refers to charger damper rebuild and bleed.


----------



## JoFa73 (Dec 8, 2013)

jimlads said:


> Anyone else got an annoying click/tick from the stanchions / crown steerer? Happens whenever the fork hits something on trail or under braking. Quite annoying. Tried the loctite fix once but no joy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, Got it replaced under warranty.


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

whats new with the pike? ive seen the website of rockshox that their pike has new decal, besides decal any improvement?


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

H00rst said:


> I've already done the lower leg service at 50 hours. The 100 hours service refers to charger damper rebuild and bleed.


thats what i mean. I found about 50 to 70hrs was too long between services. Its not hard to tell though. When the lower legs are off cycle the damper and you will tell if it has air in it. I guess some people are just giving a quick bleed and then a full fluid change at 100hrs.


----------



## monkeynuts (Mar 15, 2006)

Has anyone modded there pike? I want to tinker and was wondering if either the ‘fast suspension’ or ‘novyparts’ kit had been installed and what the difference was????


----------



## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

H00rst said:


> I've already done the lower leg service at 50 hours. The 100 hours service refers to charger damper rebuild and bleed.


That's ridiculous.
If you keep your fork clean and don't use it very hard all the time, you should service it once or twice a year.

I ride about 10-15hrs a week, that would mean I'd have to service the fork every month or two - sure


----------



## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

I don't think it's ridiculous. With only 5-15ml of lower oil on board, I'd be playing it safe personally. Especially when it's such an easy, cheap job.


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

rhys.l said:


> I don't think it's ridiculous. With only 5-15ml of lower oil on board, I'd be playing it safe personally. Especially when it's such an easy, cheap job.


Yes, I agree. My only concern was about Charger Damper rebuild until I found that a bleed or an oil change in the damper would be sufficient.


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

So I got the click/tick issue after I fitted a Pike. Thought it was an issue with the fork CSU as many have reported. Turned out to be nothing more than surface rust in my headset bearings. After a clean, noise is gone. Yay!


----------



## fretwater (Sep 22, 2014)

Gman086 said:


> ...Go UP in air pressure (20% is the golden standard) and faster on rebound (0nly 4 clciks in) = DIALED!
> What happens with a lot of sag is the Pike blows thru all the travel too easily and then ramps up harshly. So you need to keep the Pike higher in it's travel and adjust faster rebound for quicker recovery. Goes against conventional thinking but it works, trust me. Just did the most technical trail in the Pacific NW today and the Pike KILLED it!
> 
> Have FUN!
> ...


Wow...I was way off on my DPA 29 150/120 fork settings and was measuring sag incorrectly from the seated position for the fork instead of in the attach position. This is why the pressures I was measuring was way low compared to RS guide. I am 190 lbs geared up (86 kg) and RS recommends 115 psi and I was only putting in 90, which gave me a seated sag of 25%.

I took Gman086's advice and started increasing the pressure and rebound settings and the fork took on a completely new feel. It now performs amazing in small bumps and in rocky chatter. The bike rides much faster since I am not wasting energy with the low pressure/high rebound damping (slow) settings. I actually wiped two times within 5 minutes due to the new feel and higher speeds Plus the fork also rides much higher now and returns from low to high position while riding without having to unload.

Note the DPA recommended air pressure settings are much higher than the SA. I ended up with 115 psi, 4 clicks rebound from full fast, and I am still messing with LSC. The attack sag was 20% and seated was 12%. I also increased rebound on the Triad II rear shock from 1-2 to 6 from full slow per Fox's setup guide for my weight and that had a big effect as well. The bike basically just fly's over **** I use to get caught up in half the time.

Question about LSC? What effect does the extreme settings do? It seemed as though I had more control and less diving in slow rocky stuff when it was dialed fully positive but I need to try it a few more times to get a good feel for it.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Still looking for the BV shim ID and maybe a recommended change once the preload ring is removed from the shim stack. Also, is it important in this fork to maintain the exact height of the original stack for the clicker range to be correct?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

fretwater said:


> ........Question about LSC? What effect does the extreme settings do? It seemed as though I had more control and less diving in slow rocky stuff when it was dialed fully positive but I need to try it a few more times to get a good feel for it.


I'd been previously reluctant to use any LSC with 25% sag (seated) on the Pike. I then dabbled with it last ride. 1 click from open didn't do much, even up to 4. I tried 6 clicks from open and was blown away. It actually felt more composed and plush at that combo. With a fast-ish rebound of approx. 7 clicks from fully out, it seemed to be playful yet supportive. It just kept it in the higher part of the travel. Give it a try.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

lucifuge said:


> I'd been previously reluctant to use any LSC with 25% sag (seated) on the Pike. I then dabbled with it last ride. 1 click from open didn't do much, even up to 4. I tried 6 clicks from open and was blown away. It actually felt more composed and plush at that combo. With a fast-ish rebound of approx. 7 clicks from fully out, it seemed to be playful yet supportive. It just kept it in the higher part of the travel. Give it a try.


RC or RC3?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

TomMtb said:


> RC or RC3?


Rc3


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

lucifuge said:


> I'd been previously reluctant to use any LSC with 25% sag (seated) on the Pike. I then dabbled with it last ride. 1 click from open didn't do much, even up to 4. I tried 6 clicks from open and was blown away. It actually felt more composed and plush at that combo. With a fast-ish rebound of approx. 7 clicks from fully out, it seemed to be playful yet supportive. It just kept it in the higher part of the travel. Give it a try.


You use out and open w/ reference to settings...and it is confusing. Not just you, but a lot of people in this thread. How about we continue to reference the settings as fully open (rabbit) and fully closed (****ing turtle)?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

jonshonda said:


> You use out and open w/ reference to settings...and it is confusing. Not just you, but a lot of people in this thread. How about we continue to reference the settings as fully open (rabbit) and fully closed (****ing turtle)?


Well to be clear, when I say open I am referring to rabbit. And yes, fully out, meaning from open. So everything is referencd from open.


----------



## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Does anyone know if the Pike stanchion and crown is the same (length) for the 27.5 series and the 26: series? I am looking to convert my 27.5' fork to 26" using new lowers and airshaft only.


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

Im running the 27.5 pike on my carbine which is still running 26" wheels presently.
No issues whatsoever. Slightly less head angle maybe, feels great.
Have you ridden your 26' bike with that fork yet?


----------



## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

I am experiencing a bizzarre issue with my pike. It felt a little harsh on the first few rides - and I attributed it to trapped air and breakin. Now 200 miles later it still feels harsh and i noticed that even with all of the air out I am still experiencing significant resistance

I went ahead and unsrewed the 24mm air cap and pulled the lowers. I undid the circlip and pulled the air spring assembly - it appeared well lubricated and looked normal. but even with the air cap off I am still getting significant resistance when I try to compress the air spring with my hand. From my rudimentary suspension understanding this means that the dimple is not functioning properly and is not equalizing the two chambers... Any thoughts on how to address this?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

baltik said:


> I went ahead and unsrewed the 24mm air cap and pulled the lowers. I undid the circlip and pulled the air spring assembly - it appeared well lubricated and looked normal. but even with the air cap off I am still getting significant resistance when I try to compress the air spring with my hand. From my rudimentary suspension understanding this means that the dimple is not functioning properly and is not equalizing the two chambers... Any thoughts on how to address this?


You will feel a resistance as once the seal head is past the transfer port/dimple you will then have a vacuum in the - chamber as you try to compress the air spring.

Hold up a second are you saying you feel a resistance when just pushing the airspring up without the lower seal head or the top cap in place?


----------



## RetardedTiming (Jan 19, 2015)

So I'm converting a new 160mm to 120mm. I want to set up the tokens per factory default. The problem is that I have two conflicting charts for tokens....I'm thinking I'll install four. Any thoughts?


----------



## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Try it you'll probably like it. Raged all of 2 mins. To install.


----------



## Equality 7-2521 (May 6, 2014)

I'm still wondering what the 120MM Pike would feel like on my Process 111. I have a carefully removed 29" 140MM (27.5" 160MM) Pike Solo Air Shaft (less than 20 miles on it) that I'd like to trade for a (new or carefully removed) 29" 120MM (27.5" 140MM, or 26" 150MM) air shaft. 

Straight trade, each trader covers their own shipping. Any interest?


----------



## nwdawson (Jun 17, 2006)

RetardedTiming said:


> So I'm converting a new 160mm to 120mm. I want to set up the tokens per factory default. The problem is that I have two conflicting charts for tokens....I'm thinking I'll install four. Any thoughts?


Had a bike shop swap a 140mm air spring for a 120mm and they recommended 4 tokens.


----------



## RetardedTiming (Jan 19, 2015)

Thanks that's what I ended up doing. I figured since the current PDF download from SRAM's website shows four I should go that route.


----------



## Burak (May 13, 2007)

Hello, one shop sold me the wrong pike, i needed Pike RCT3 2915 SA150 BLK and they sent me Pike RCT3 2915 2P160 BLK !!! Any chance to reduce easily the travel to 150 mm ?


----------



## RetardedTiming (Jan 19, 2015)

Actually I just realized one is DA and the other SA. These are not interchangeable.


----------



## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

Can you give me some insight on Winter Park and the riding there? Is it mostly a lift assist downhill scene, or some cross country stuff in the area? I need to be in Colorado in early June and thought I'd catch some fun if possible.

My original plan called for a road trip staying in WP for the last week of June and catch Eric Gales Band at the WP Blues Fest. It sounded like a win/win! Plans have changed so I would have to rent a bike.



redranger said:


> Going to the front range, Golden area, third week of August. That should tell all, even maybe a day at winter park.


----------



## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Yes, however it requires a new air shaft $ 40. Part plus install. I would return the fork and get the proper 150 mm out of the box unless you got it really cheap. I got mine for $ 620 and free shipping from Merlincycles. My $02 worth.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

You can find the air springs a bit cheaper than $40 and swapping them out is super easy. You need to have new crush washers. I've got air spring shafts for 120, 130, 140.


----------



## nickd111 (Jan 29, 2015)

I'm looking for some advise on my new 150mm pike. I've got about 15 hours on the fork right now. I'm at 165lbs w/ gear.There is around 50PSI in it (25% sag) and still can't get full travel. Even using all my weight to try to compress the fork off a drop I leave over a cm of travel. I've never had a ride where I bottomed out and have ran it as low as 45PSI. Our trails are technical east coast trail riding with lots of big rocks and roots. Anyway, I let all the air out and removed the top cap, but when completely compress the fork it still expands back most of the way. Is that normal? Should it just stay compressed? I've attempted the zip tie trick just to see, but there didn't seem to be any air released. Any thoughts?


----------



## RetardedTiming (Jan 19, 2015)

He wants a solo, received a dual. You can't make a dual a solo or vice versa. Crowns are different. He could swap a DP 150/120 shaft but he can't swap a 150 SA shaft into a DP crown.


----------



## Burak (May 13, 2007)

Thx for answer, i'm going to return fork to the shop and ask for'the right one


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Agreed, I looked at the post above and saw the 2P vs the SA. BTW, I think the crowns are the same but you would need the SA top nut and cap as well as the spring to change from DP to SA. I did this same swap way back on one of the first Totem's when the had leak down problems with the DP's. I changed it to SA. 

The problem here is he ordered the as SA 150 and did not get what he ordered!


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

nickd111 said:


> I'm looking for some advise on my new 150mm pike. I've got about 15 hours on the fork right now. I'm at 165lbs w/ gear.There is around 50PSI in it (25% sag) and still can't get full travel. Even using all my weight to try to compress the fork off a drop I leave over a cm of travel. I've never had a ride where I bottomed out and have ran it as low as 45PSI. Our trails are technical east coast trail riding with lots of big rocks and roots. Anyway, I let all the air out and removed the top cap, but when completely compress the fork it still expands back most of the way. Is that normal? Should it just stay compressed? I've attempted the zip tie trick just to see, but there didn't seem to be any air released. Any thoughts?


What is wrong with leaving 1cm?? That's nothing. It's safer to leave some amount in reserve for the unexpected. How it actually feels for what it actually uses should be what you concern yourself with.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

lucifuge said:


> What is wrong with leaving 1cm?? That's nothing. It's safer to leave some amount in reserve for the unexpected. How it actually feels for what it actually uses should be what you concern yourself with.


Yes, travel should be about quality not just quantity.


----------



## nickd111 (Jan 29, 2015)

Thanks Guys! I was starting to wonder if I was leaving something on the table.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

manitou2200 said:


> BTW, I think the crowns are the same


You are wrong.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Rick Draper said:


> You are wrong.


What's different crown wise between n the SA vs DP?


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> What is wrong with leaving 1cm?? That's nothing. It's safer to leave some amount in reserve for the unexpected. How it actually feels for what it actually uses should be what you concern yourself with.


That's true. I've had my Pikes for about 9 months. And bottomed them once. I would rather use that last 10mm every second or third ride. Otherwise why not have a 150mm fork?
I even had Dougal take some shims out of mine. (14 RC 26's.)


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

manitou2200 said:


> What's different crown wise between n the SA vs DP?


The stanchion on the airside.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Rick Draper said:


> The stanchion on the airside.


I should have been more specific. How are the two different?


----------



## Skorp (Jul 20, 2009)

I know this has been asked probably 10 times allready, but i could not find it..

Is it possible to convert my 27.5 RCT3 Solo Air from 150mm to 160mm?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Jump on RS website and download parts manual. Any part it specifies the travel length for will need to be replaced.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Skorp said:


> I know this has been asked probably 10 times allready, but i could not find it..
> 
> Is it possible to convert my 27.5 RCT3 Solo Air from 150mm to 160mm?


Easy swap. One $30 part (Bikeman has them). 
It's a great feature of the Pike that Rock Shox really should play up more. 
Here's a decent vid:
How to change the travel on a RockShox Solo Air fork (VIDEO) - MBR


----------



## Skorp (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm at sea, so i cant download anything or watch any vids  
Will the stanchions have written 160mm on them and look like stock then?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

manitou2200 said:


> I should have been more specific. How are the two different?


One has a transfer port, one does not.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Crankyone said:


> Can you give me some insight on Winter Park and the riding there? Is it mostly a lift assist downhill scene, or some cross country stuff in the area? I need to be in Colorado in early June and thought I'd catch some fun if possible.
> 
> My original plan called for a road trip staying in WP for the last week oHf June and catch Eric Gales Band at the WP Blues Fest. It sounded like a win/win! Plans have changed so I would have to rent a bike.


Can't see where you got an answer, so I'll give it a shot...

Went to WP two years ago and had a blast. I stayed on their hill and did lift assist the entire time on my trail bike. I hear they've got plenty of single track nearby.

Had such a good time my wife and I are going there to spend a week this summer.

The DH trails were a lot of fun. Super buffed, which is something I don't get here out east. So when I go back this summer I only need to haul one bike to hit both lift assist and trail ride.

I am counting on there being some good trail riding in the area, and I hear there is, but we'll have to see. If you do go soon, post back on the trail riding.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Rick Draper said:


> One has a transfer port, one does not.


Gotcha, thanks Rick


----------



## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Skorp said:


> I'm at sea, so i cant download anything or watch any vids
> Will the stanchions have written 160mm on them and look like stock then?


stanchions will have 150/160 sag marks, you only change the air spring


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mudguard25 said:


> That's true. I've had my Pikes for about 9 months. And bottomed them once. I would rather use that last 10mm every second or third ride. Otherwise why not have a 150mm fork?
> I even had Dougal take some shims out of mine. (14 RC 26's.)


I haven't finished with them. That was just the first "let's cut compression damping in half and see how much that helps".

When you get them finally sorted, you'll use more travel, more often without them feeling soggy or unstable.
They'll start to feel more like my Travis or Mattoc.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Wanted to try 2x tokens as a test today. Being a lighter rider at 72kg, none are recommended for 150mm 27.5. Even with less air, they simply felt like they were on steroids. Way too hyperactive and couldn't calm it down. Was good to feel the difference if nothing else.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> Wanted to try 2x tokens as a test today. Being a lighter rider at 72kg, none are recommended for 150mm 27.5. Even with less air, they simply felt like they were on steroids. Way too hyperactive and couldn't calm it down. Was good to feel the difference if nothing else.


My experience with running a token has been very good. Albeit I'm just using one. 
I'm about the same weight (a kilo or 2 lighter) with gear and have the same fork - 27.5 150mm RCT3. 
I'm using one token. 
It's allowed me to lower my pressure a few psi and still get between 20-25% sag. 
It's very supply off the top, I use a good amount of travel on every ride, nearly full travel on the bigger hits and full travel only when I encounter the biggest hits.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

ok....you inspired me to try 1 token, which I did today in the more of the demanding areas I ride.

With a riders weight of 72kg, 27.5 150m Pike and 1 token: I measured 25% sag (seated) on my shock pump which was 45psi.

Generally speaking, it felt way better than using the two. Whether its better than using none, I can't remember. I realised towards end of the ride that the rebound wasn't correct; it needed to be a lot faster. I eventually put it to 5 clicks out from fully fast and now I'm wondering whether it could benefit from faster.

What concerns me mainly is that by the end of the ride, I sill had 45mm (1.7") left on the fork. Testing 40psi springs to mind, but seems crazy low!? Could that be correct?? If so, I'm thinking I might absolutely need some LSC in interests of safety.



jon123 said:


> My experience with running a token has been very good. Albeit I'm just using one.
> I'm about the same weight (a kilo or 2 lighter) with gear and have the same fork - 27.5 150mm RCT3.
> I'm using one token.
> It's allowed me to lower my pressure a few psi and still get between 20-25% sag.
> It's very supply off the top, I use a good amount of travel on every ride, nearly full travel on the bigger hits and full travel only when I encounter the biggest hits.


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

Experimentation is the way I guess, though I've yet to put a token in yet as I seldom bottom. I'm about 78kg and now running 65psi, with a healthy dose of LSC (6 clicks I think). Initially I was running 80psi but that proved to be a little more than was comfortable when riding faster.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> What concerns me mainly is that by the end of the ride, I sill had 45mm (1.7") left on the fork. Testing 40psi springs to mind, but seems crazy low!? Could that be correct?? If so, I'm thinking I might absolutely need some LSC in interests of safety.


Something seems wrong there. 40 psi is VERY low.
I'm at 55 psi to get around 20% sag.
I've found -- at our weight -- getting 25% isn't easy on this fork, that is in the seated position.
I've also found -- and read a number of times here from experienced riders who've posted on this topic -- that the Pike rides better a little higher as in 20%. Combined with a faster rebound. It's certainly working for me.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Well, for one thing I'm always using the same shock pump; for all I know its different that others. Also, with no tokens; 50psi always leaves me 1" travel, and now, 45psi leaves me with more (1.7") leftover when using a single token. So, whatever the shock pump/psi is, the leftover travel doesn't lie. It's done this prior to its first service and after.

Might try a different shock pump as a test in any event.



jon123 said:


> Something seems wrong there. 40 psi is VERY low.
> I'm at 55 psi to get around 20% sag.
> I've found -- at our weight -- getting 25% isn't easy on this fork, that is in the seated position.
> I've also found -- and read a number of times here from experienced riders who've posted on this topic -- that the Pike rides better a little higher as in 20%. Combined with a faster rebound. It's certainly working for me.


----------



## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

You shouldn't be using entire travel anyway.
Only on stuff such as big drops. Quality of travel is more important.

If you are riding tame trails, you shouldn't be using more than 50-60% of travel.


----------



## ncerni (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm getting somehow annoyed with Pikes. My 3rd set. It developed play in the bushings after few rides and now it started creaking when riding rough terrain or braking. Honestly I am very dissapointed with build quality. But other forks are by my experience the same (fox, bos). I somehow accepted it has some play, but that creaking is so annoying I can't stand it. :madmax: But If I want to get it serviced/replaced it can take a long time. And you know how it is to be without a bike in the middle of a season. 
IMO, they should move some people from R&D to process engineering and QC, so they will make their products better. They are making new standards, so people must buy new products, but the quality of current products is lower every year.
Eg. friend brought me a 2008 pike to replace seals. It was the second service for that particular fork and it is in a better shape than my 3 months old Pike 2015. And it's not sitting in the garage.


----------



## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

Welcome to consumerism - where product lifecycle is as long as it's warranty and companies need to save every penny in order to stay competitive.


----------



## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

lucifuge said:


> ok....you inspired me to try 1 token, which I did today in the more of the demanding areas I ride.
> 
> With a riders weight of 72kg, 27.5 150m Pike and 1 token: I measured 25% sag (seated) on my shock pump which was 45psi.
> 
> ...


Set sag, and ride it. Add or take away tokens to adjust the ramp up as you like it. You can also add or reduce the pressure to change the sensitivity to smaller hits.

Ability to use all the travel is only an issue for me if I were blowing through it.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

MarinCRO said:


> Welcome to consumerism - where product lifecycle is as long as it's warranty and companies need to save every penny in order to stay competitive.


Yes, times have changed. I still have a 1999 Rock Shox Judy, and a 2001 Manitou X-vert Super on two bikes and they work as well as new. Until last month, a ran a 2007 Manitou on my main bike, 365 days of the year. Worked great and still does. Two fox forks had stanchion wear within 18 months and I had enough of that. It would be sad to see Rock Shox follow the lead of fox...


----------



## ivanho (Dec 16, 2008)

Hey, has anyone tried a DIY token? $20 is pretty steep for a small piece of plastic.


----------



## Thmp Thmp (Jun 29, 2008)

What's $20 after spending $800-1000 on a fork?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

If you bought the forks on their own they should have come with 2 extra tokens, a seal kit and a shock pump. I know mine did.


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

ivanho said:


> Hey, has anyone tried a DIY token? $20 is pretty steep for a small piece of plastic.


Have you got dual position or solo air?
Tokens here are only $5. I have to modify them to fit my dual position. I drill the hole out to 10.5mm and it slides on the shaft. You could probably use suspension grease which would probably work out more expensive.


----------



## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

Need some help guys...
I keep bottoming my fork out hard on a 3ft drop to flat I ride almost every weekend. I have a 130mm 27.5 Pike solo and am already running 1 extra token. 80 PSI puts me at around 15% sag only, yet I'm still bottoming. Rebound is 2 clicks from full fast, LSC near the middle(7-8 clicks in). I'm 195-200lbs geared up. I don't want to lose too much more small bump compliance. I live in Florida so no extended descents. However, I rode up in the mountains in Georgia a few weeks ago and the fork performed flawlessly on those descents.

My question is should I put another token in, OR are 3ft drops to flat the limit of 130mm fork? FYI I ride a 2015 Fuel EX 9, so I already am 10mm overforked.


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

GatorXman said:


> Need some help guys...
> I keep bottoming my fork out hard on a 3ft drop to flat I ride almost every weekend. I have a 130mm 27.5 Pike solo and am already running 1 extra token. 80 PSI puts me at around 15% sag only, yet I'm still bottoming. Rebound is 2 clicks from full fast, LSC near the middle(7-8 clicks in). I'm 195-200lbs geared up. I don't want to lose too much more small bump compliance. I live in Florida so no extended descents. However, I rode up in the mountains in Georgia a few weeks ago and the fork performed flawlessly on those descents.
> 
> My question is should I put another token in, OR are 3ft drops to flat the limit of 130mm fork? FYI I ride a 2015 Fuel EX 9, so I already am 10mm overforked.


You should definitively put another token in your fork. You could also drop 2 or 3 PSI to enhance small bump compliance.


----------



## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

additional tokenization and consider a slightly heavier damper oil. like say a Torco RFF 7 or Spectro Golden 7.5wt. 

The thicker oil will allow you to control compression a bit better. It will slow down rebound a tad, specially if your so close to full open. Watch out for spiking. If spiking starts, back off the oil weight a tad..


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

GatorXman said:


> Need some help guys...
> I keep bottoming my fork out hard on a 3ft drop to flat I ride almost every weekend. I have a 130mm 27.5 Pike solo and am already running 1 extra token. 80 PSI puts me at around 15% sag only, yet I'm still bottoming. Rebound is 2 clicks from full fast, LSC near the middle(7-8 clicks in). I'm 195-200lbs geared up. I don't want to lose too much more small bump compliance. I live in Florida so no extended descents. However, I rode up in the mountains in Georgia a few weeks ago and the fork performed flawlessly on those descents.
> 
> My question is should I put another token in, OR are 3ft drops to flat the limit of 130mm fork? FYI I ride a 2015 Fuel EX 9, so I already am 10mm overforked.


You should add another token and also give up some small bump compliance. Wind that lsc clicker in as you are quite heavy. It will add control through the entire stroke.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Tried a more technical trail today with mid-sized rocks and rock gardens. The 45psi gave to little top end - mid support. Even LSC didn't really help all up. 
I'm going back to 50psi and will increase rebound by 1 clicky.


----------



## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

lucifuge said:


> Tried a more technical trail today with mid-sized rocks and rock gardens. The 45psi gave to little top end - mid support. Even LSC didn't really help all up.
> I'm going back to 50psi and will increase rebound by 1 clicky.


I noticed your riding weight to be 72kg, mine is 67/68kg lighter then you, but my 140mm pike is set up with 60 to 65 psi. Has half a token. ( have tried half to 2) and with 5 to 6 clicks from slow(turtle) and 0 to 1 click of lsc. I find the fork is perfect for me there. Plush but with support, and I use full travel on let's say a 3 foot drop to flat.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

lucifuge said:


> Tried a more technical trail today with mid-sized rocks and rock gardens. The 45psi gave to little top end - mid support. Even LSC didn't really help all up.
> I'm going back to 50psi and will increase rebound by 1 clicky.


I'm lighter than you at about 68 kg. I'm running a 140 29 with 2 tokens and my spring's at 65 psi, which gives me 25% sag. Most rides I'm at or near full travel on bigger features

45 psi seems way too low for your weight and the Pike. What we lighter riders can get away with is less rebound dampening which allows it to stay higher up for small bump and it makes for a more lively ride.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

manitou2200 said:


> I'm lighter than you at about 68 kg. I'm running a 140 29 with 2 tokens and my spring's at 65 psi, which gives me 25% sag. Most rides I'm at or near full travel on bigger features
> 
> 45 psi seems way too low for your weight and the Pike. What we lighter riders can get away with is less rebound dampening which allows it to stay higher up for small bump and it makes for a more lively ride.


With no tokens if I use 65psi, I will use less then 50% of the travel. FWIW, due to a hand injury I don't do jumps ever. The fork will only get displaced significantly on spikey descents etc. I've just done a full lowers service, will try it this afternoon. initially on 50psi + 7 clicks of rebound out from fully fast and hopefully no LSC is needed.


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

lucifuge said:


> With no tokens if I use 65psi, I will use less then 50% of the travel. FWIW, due to a hand injury I don't do juymps ever. The fork will only get displaced significantly on spikey descents etc. I've just done a full lowers service, will try it this afternoon. initially on 50psi + 7 clicks of rebound out from fully fast and hopefully no LSC is needed.


if you're not doing jumps or drops i wouldn't be looking to use full travel. 50% on a trail ride sounds fine. Tokens are for big hits which you don't do. On a technical descent you might use 75% if its steep. I don't have the solo air but you seem to be running low psi in order to use full travel which is not necessary unless you really need it. Like on the bigger drops.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

MeridaManiac said:


> if you're not doing jumps or drops i wouldn't be looking to use full travel. 50% on a trail ride sounds fine. Tokens are for big hits which you don't do. On a technical descent you might use 75% if its steep. I don't have the solo air but you seem to be running low psi in order to use full travel which is not necessary unless you really need it. Like on the bigger drops.


50% on a trail ride is far too harsh. Should be more like 80%.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

A lot of different opinions here, but maybe most would agree that for my riders weight and lack of jumps etc there's no point having any tokens?


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

lucifuge said:


> A lot of different opinions here, but maybe most would agree that for my riders weight and lack of jumps etc there's no point having any tokens?


It depends on your riding preferences. If your rides are calm you could try to use no tokens at all. If your rides are technical and fast you may find that at least 1 token will be necessary.

Don't mind if you use only 50% of the travel, it depends on how much technical and fast is the descent. It's almost impossible to achieve full travel on a smooth trail without any jump. Moreover an under-inflated fork doesn't work and lowering the pressure in order to get full travel is not a proper strategy. I've rode several months with the Pike prior to find my (almost) perfect setup:

Pike RC 160
Rider 195lb
77 PSI ~
1 Token
Rebound 9 from full open
LSC 3 - 4 from full open

When I hit stuff faster on steeper and technical descents the o-ring stop at 2 - 3 mm. When I ride on less technical terrains I don't expect to use full travel anyway. Remember, tokens allows you to avoid bottom out while dropping the pressure a little bit in order to raise small bump compliance but definitely an under-inflated Pike will not work at all.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

lucifuge said:


> With no tokens if I use 65psi, I will use less then 50% of the travel. FWIW, due to a hand injury I don't do jumps ever. The fork will only get displaced significantly on spikey descents etc. I've just done a full lowers service, will try it this afternoon. initially on 50psi + 7 clicks of rebound out from fully fast and hopefully no LSC is needed.


I really sounds to me like your positive and negative chambers are not equalized. Or there is some sort trapped in the lower chamber. I'd recommend letting all the air out of the fork and then cycle it fully compressed and fully extended a few times then re-inflate it and set your sag/ spring pressure.

Rebound wise do you mean 7 clicks in from full fast?


----------



## mattwright999 (Jun 25, 2014)

Mitch Ropelato and Curtis Keene both running 3 tokens around ~90psi. Seems like that would make the fork super stiff. Have not tried it yet. Is there something they are doing that we dont know about? super slow rebound maybe?

Also been playing with super fast rebound, does anyone find it makes climbing harder? seems to bounce around quite a bit..


----------



## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

mattwright999 said:


> Is there something they are doing that we dont know about?


Riding at warp speed?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I run 2 tokens in a 29/ 130 and also when I had it at 140. When it was in 140 travel I also ran 3 tokens and dropped the air pressure a bit but after a while I went back to 2 tokens and higher psi which I liked the performance better! 

I'd recommend playing around with tokens and air pressure to find the ideal setting for you and your riding. It's fairly easy to add and remove tokens. Generally speaking the larger wheel platforms need more tokens because the air spring volume is largest in 29 vs 27.5 vs 26 with travel being a constant.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

mattwright999 said:


> Mitch Ropelato and Curtis Keene both running 3 tokens around ~90psi. Seems like that would make the fork super stiff. Have not tried it yet. Is there something they are doing that we dont know about? super slow rebound maybe?
> 
> Also been playing with super fast rebound, does anyone find it makes climbing harder? seems to bounce around quite a bit..


Rebound settings are generally more related to spring pressure, so the higher the spring pressure (psi) the higher the rebound dampening value needs to be to control the stroke.

My guess with regards to Ropelato and Keene is they are running little compression dampening and just enough rebound dampening to control the fork along with their 3 tokens. This makes the Pike lively and able to pop off stuff and the 3 tokens gives it more of a progressive spring cure towards the end of the stroke.


----------



## LowRent (Mar 11, 2004)

I'm concerned this isn't fully extending, but maybe this is 100% normal? I bumped pressure up to 90 psi but no change. No weight on fork other than bike itself.

Should I be concerned?

It's a 150mm 26".


----------



## gregmazo (Aug 31, 2007)

Hey.
I have a pike 29er 140mm I bought from a friend.
It had three tokens.
I took off two off three, so only one remaining.
Once I pumped the fork back to around 85-90 psi to try out, I only have 125mm of exposed stanchions.

Did I miss something?
Thanks for help!


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Hey guys I think most of these issues Are a result off imbalance between positive and negative spring chambers. Thinking about this and how they work to equalize leads me to believe the best way to adjust spring pressure on the Pike is to let all all the air out, then cycle the forks deflated, then fill the springs again to the desired pressure. 
I think the issue is because of the fact that all air in or out is for from the top of the fork. If their is anything obstructing the flow between the chambers or the equalizing port and they will be unbalanced and crate these stuck down or too firm issues. Also air sometimes becomes trapped I the lowers limiting travel. It's never happen to me but I can see how it could happen.
I'm a bit anal the maintenance and pretty keen on suspension changes.
I'd try 2 tokens in the 140 29. I'm lighter than you and at 65/70 psi and 2 tokens is my favorite ramp up in this fork. I'm partial to progressive and lively suspensions so take that into consideration.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

The fork is still a mystery to me. I've bought a new pump, spent 3 hours over the past couple of days riding it at 50, 60 and 70psi. (I'm 78kg riding, 170lb). At 70 psi the fork is so stiff it doesn't work, at 50 it can drop to about 40% sag and just wallows. I really can't be bothered testing it at 1 or 2 psi increments to find a sweet spot.
It's weird, I haven't ridden many air forks before, only a Manitou Black which feels fine on my missus' bike.
However I've ridden plenty of coil sprung forks. And cannot get anywhere near coil grip.
My caveat is this, at bike park speeds (lift assisted or predominantly DH riding) the fork feels great, rebound is easy to set, sag 25-30%.
But at trail speed, which is 95% of my riding, it's either too firm and use about 75% of the travel, or if I drop the pressure right down to get seated sag, I can't get the rebound fast enough.
I think the OEM fork (26" RC3 160mm) is for more aggressive riding than Rockshox would have you think. There seems to be two types of riders posting in here with Pikes. Those who blow through the travel, add a token, voila, problem solved. And those who are lighter and can't use anywhere near the full travel at a proper air pressure.


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

It's not a secret that the Pike is not as much confortable for less aggressive riders.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

@Mudguard25, Which Pike do you have 26/ 160 RCT3? It definitely sounds like something is wrong with your fork spring, chambers not-equalized. I'd say 70 psi would be a good starting point for you but you'll most likely need more air than that. You probably also will not need any tokens or maybe just one, look at the token chart SRAM published.
I'd start over deflate the fork cycle it up and down deflated open up all the adjustments and start over. I stopped worrying about sag % with the Pike and focused more I ride and quality of control through the travel. Rebound can be set plenty fast on the RCT3.
Yeah it's for aggressive riders but it's a great trail fork!


----------



## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

What's new with the pike 15/16 besides the decal?


----------



## LowRent (Mar 11, 2004)

After hours of searching (prior to and after my post here) I'm pretty sure I have an answer--at least for my case.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I agree with a lot of what you have written. I'm forever dabbling. I feel that it actually should work close to recommended, but mid-sized hits give harsher than expected compression spikes which are jarring to the hands. It's because of this singular issue that I try and control it with various tweaks. Because the hits are more of a high speed nature/square hits, dabbling with LSC/rebound is useless by definition. I appreciate a fork is a compromise but it's bloody hard to find a sweet spot. Only real option is to spend more money on a tune via Avalanche or live with it as is.



Mudguard25 said:


> The fo rk is still a mystery to me. I've bought a new pump, spent 3 hours over the past couple of days riding it at 50, 60 and 70psi. (I'm 78kg riding, 170lb). At 70 psi the fork is so stiff it doesn't work, at 50 it can drop to about 40% sag and just wallows. I really can't be bothered testing it at 1 or 2 psi increments to find a sweet spot.
> It's weird, I haven't ridden many air forks before, only a Manitou Black which feels fine on my missus' bike.
> However I've ridden plenty of coil sprung forks. And cannot get anywhere near coil grip.
> My caveat is this, at bike park speeds (lift assisted or predominantly DH riding) the fork feels great, rebound is easy to set, sag 25-30%.
> ...


----------



## macduff (Sep 4, 2012)

H00rst said:


> It's not a secret that the Pike is not as much confortable for less aggressive riders.


I would strongly disagree with this post. I had previously been running a RS Lyrik DP Air and even with all the tweaks/mods/adjustment it was far harsher ride than the Pike RCT3 I replaced it with on stock suggested settings . Its to the point I no longer think what the fork is doing, it just "works". Maybe some folks have too much expectation on what a fork can do at a given setting


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

macduff said:


> I would strongly disagree with this post. I had previously been running a RS Lyrik DP Air and even with all the tweaks/mods/adjustment it was far harsher ride than the Pike RCT3 I replaced it with on stock suggested settings . Its to the point I no longer think what the fork is doing, it just "works". Maybe some folks have too much expectation on what a fork can do at a given setting


I second this. 
I'm a lighter, less aggressive rider and I think the Pike is phenomenal.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jon123 said:


> I second this.
> I'm a lighter, less aggressive rider and I think the Pike is phenomenal.


Which Pike? RC or RTC3?

Every RC model I have ridden has been very harsh.


----------



## thejimrose (Aug 13, 2008)

i run an rct3 on a 15 nomad c and i found the pike very harsh ootb. dicked around endlessy with tokens, air pressure, settings, had it dyno'd and it does exhibit some odd characteristics. i was previously on a 36 float on an enduro that was much more plush. upgraded to a FAST cartridge [our of france] and that helped quite a bit. much more small bump compliance and haven't given up anything on the bigger stuff. it's also high and low speed adjustable.

i'm 200lbs and pretty aggressive.


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Which Pike? RC or RTC3?
> 
> Every RC model I have ridden has been very harsh.


RCT3 27.5 150mm
Anything but harsh. 
I'm 155 with gear. 
I added one token. 
Running about 55psi. Gives me 20% sag in seated position. 
Very plush overall. Use a good amount of travel on most rides. A large amount on the bigger hits. And virtually full travel on the biggest hits I do.


----------



## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

jon123 said:


> RCT3 27.5 150mm
> Anything but harsh.
> I'm 155 with gear.
> I added one token.
> ...


RC 27.5 160mm

When it was new I ran 80psi to get about 25% sag. 
It started to get the air trapped under the seals and sucking the travel down. WOuld have to burp the legs before I rode it every weekend. small bump compliance Was gone. fork felt like it was locked out while going over small bumps. Over large hits You would use it's travel Air pressure was dropped to about 55psi to get 25% sag

Ended up having fork rebuilt.
80psi again for 25% sag fork ran awesome

8 hours of ride time later. 
Back to the No small bump compliance. and back down to 65psi for 25% sag

Called SRAM. whole air side was sent to be replaced.. Looks good ( full travel just standing) feels good ( riding around the street)

will know how it feels this Sunday.

Unfortunately if these darn thing keeps acting up. I may just get a fox


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

What rebound and LSC?



jon123 said:


> RCT3 27.5 150mm
> Anything but harsh.
> I'm 155 with gear.
> I added one token.
> ...


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Hi guys. I have a 160 Pike RC that was stock on my Enduro 29 and what I have noticed is that if I slightly push the handlebars then the fork will move into its travel for some few mm without actually feeling any support or resistance from the air spring. Then if I push the handlebars up the fork will return to its initial travel so there seems to be some few "empty" mm.

Is this happening to other Pike forks as well?


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

brent701 said:


> RC 27.5 160mm
> 
> When it was new I ran 80psi to get about 25% sag.
> It started to get the air trapped under the seals and sucking the travel down. WOuld have to burp the legs before I rode it every weekend. small bump compliance Was gone. fork felt like it was locked out while going over small bumps. Over large hits You would use it's travel Air pressure was dropped to about 55psi to get 25% sag
> ...


"Full travel just standing"
That's not good. 
Full travel should only happen on your absolute largest hits.


----------



## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

gpgalanis said:


> Hi guys. I have a 160 Pike RC that was stock on my Enduro 29 and what I have noticed is that if I slightly push the handlebars then the fork will move into its travel for some few mm without actually feeling any support or resistance from the air spring. Then if I push the handlebars up the fork will return to its initial travel so there seems to be some few "empty" mm.
> 
> Is this happening to other Pike forks as well?


I have the same thing on my 130mm 27.5. It makes sagging it almost impossible because if i lean a bit forward the fork drops 10mm instantly


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Yes it is really strange. In my case it isn't as much as 10mm but still it is annoying. I will try to check the Pike of a friend of mine to see if it is the same and also ask my LBS about it.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

This is the negative spring affecting the top of the stroke which aids I small bump compliance. It's normal but it shouldn't be 10mm. I'd sag it in attack position out of the saddle leaning forward. I would also not get too anal about sag with this fork. Pikes work better with less sag (20-25% range) in my opinion and with faster rebound.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Thank you. I also had a 26 160mm Pike RCT3 in my previous bike and I don't remember if I had the same "issue" or not. Anyway I won't get that crazy about it as well once I have it dialed.


----------



## kmiglis (Jan 3, 2014)

gpgalanis said:


> Thank you. I also had a 26 160mm Pike RCT3 in my previous bike and I don't remember if I had the same "issue" or not. Anyway I won't get that crazy about it as well once I have it dialed.


Δεν το εχει Παρη μαλλον θελει burp η δικη σου.
Mine does not have this bit of play probably you need a burp.


----------



## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

manitou2200 said:


> This is the negative spring affecting the top of the stroke which aids I small bump compliance. It's normal but it shouldn't be 10mm. I'd sag it in attack position out of the saddle leaning forward. I would also not get too anal about sag with this fork. Pikes work better with less sag (20-25% range) in my opinion and with faster rebound.


Yup I'd have to agree. I actually set my pressure based on the travel I use on the biggest drop...I have 2-3mm left of travel. A couple extra tokens allowed me to keep small bump compliance. In my natural attack position I only have about 15% sag...lean forward a bit and I'm at around 23%


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

kmiglis said:


> Δεν το εχει Παρη μαλλον θελει burp η δικη σου.
> Mine does not have this bit of play probably you need a burp.


So following my friend's reccomenation I checked if there was any trapped air in the lowers of my Pike and actually there was so much air that even after removing all the air from the air chamber the fork was keep coming back at least half travel if not more!

So I burped my Pike and there was a lot of air removed and now it seems to behave so much better!


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I just did a lower service, clean with alcohol, inspect, re-greased seals, orings and oil change, new crush washers. I did not have one bit of trapped air in the lowers and the oil was perfectly clean after 120+ hrs service. I don't like burping seals. It's a bad road to go down. You want those seals keeping **** out, like rain, mud, dirt...... You're better off doing regular service on the fork. It's cheaper and works better!


----------



## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

I am still getting used to my Pike, 150mm RC. 27.5, zero tokens. It started bottoming out on even little 2 foot drops. I was running 60 psi to get 30% sag and compression compketely open. Rebound maybe 4 clicks from open.

Got one token installed this week, now need to take it out. I would love to achieve the lively pop-off response while still getting small bump compliance. Most of what I ride is combination of high speed flow with drops and tables, and then other half of trail is technical climbing, rock gardens up and down, more tree roots.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

cjsb said:


> ....... Most of what I ride is combination of high speed flow with drops and tables, and then other half of trail is technical climbing, rock gardens up and down, more tree roots.


This is why, like me, it's tricky. You have such a mix of terrain. I had been running 30% sag (or close to it) and others were saying the psi was way too low. I put to 22% sag which was spot on Rockshox rec and I have to agree with them it's far superior. Fork recovers much better at these levels. Rebound is what I need to work on now. I'm going to start at the slower end to get it sorted for the nastier and more technical areas so I know its safe. It might be less favourable for other areas but that the price you pay for a compromise of terrain.

As an aside, I noticed (I think on avalanche website) they refer to 22% fork sag with 30% shock sag as being a pretty optimal balance in their eyes. I tried this yesterday and I was really happy with it


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

So with 25% do you have a good small bump sensitivity?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Yep! Not super, super plush but good and it like to stay up higher in the travel without diving on taking or harder compressions.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Great. I had a 26 160 Pike RC3 in my Surge and it was pretty dialled but now that I have moved to the Enduro 29 with a Pike 160 RC and a Monarch Plus Debonair I am still trying to set them up properly.

PS. I have played yesterday with my Pike and I have removed all the air and pump it back again and it wouldn't get back to full extension! So I pumped it to almost maximum psi and burped it and immediately the fork fully extended!


----------



## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

gpgalanis said:


> So with 25% do you have a good small bump sensitivity?


I didn't. It felt locked out till you hit something that made you use the travel. 
But I had everything in the left leg replaced under warranty. 
I am riding it tomorrow and I'll report back.


----------



## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

lucifuge said:


> This is why, like me, it's tricky. You have such a mix of terrain. I had been running 30% sag (or close to it) and others were saying the psi was way too low. I put to 22% sag which was spot on Rockshox rec and I have to agree with them it's far superior. Fork recovers much better at these levels. Rebound is what I need to work on now. I'm going to start at the slower end to get it sorted for the nastier and more technical areas so I know its safe. It might be less favourable for other areas but that the price you pay for a compromise of terrain.
> 
> As an aside, I noticed (I think on avalanche website) they refer to 22% fork sag with 30% shock sag as being a pretty optimal balance in their eyes. I tried this yesterday and I was really happy with it


Thanks for all of the feedback! Is your 22% sag seated or standing? I have mine at 27% seated and just checked now it is way over 30% standing. I am going to try and hit 30% standing and see how it feels. Wish the trails were open today but too wet.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Attack, so it was probably 15% seated equivalent


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Hey guys. 

Sag is not the measurement of proper air pressure. Natural frequency is. Sag is just a guideline to get you in the ballpark. 

It is the most important thing in suspension setup to get the natural frequency right not only at each end. But also working in harmony with the other end. 

Getting carried away with sag percentages is missing the point entirely.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

That's completely true, and even more applicable to fork setup than shock setup (since fork sag numbers are tough to get a good reading on in the first place).

There are lots of guidelines out there for pitch/bounce frequencies of a vehicle which relates the front/rear springrates to one another.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> That's completely true, and even more applicable to fork setup than shock setup (since fork sag numbers are tough to get a good reading on in the first place).
> 
> There are lots of guidelines out there for pitch/bounce frequencies of a vehicle which relates the front/rear springrates to one another.


And the pitch/bounce frequencies of vehicles are tuned around what feels right to humans. Which is exactly how it works with bike suspension too.

If it's wallowing, the frequency is too slow and it needs more pressure.
If it's jiggling or bucks on rebound then the frequency is too fast and it needs less pressure.

All these people fretting over 22 or 27% need to throw those numbers away and tune air pressure for what feels right without wallow or rebound that kicks.

Once you have that, you need to start looking at the damping.


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Dougal, I get basically lynched around here when I suggest people ignore sag numbers. Its a very difficult point to get across. People just wont do it, they love the sag! :lol: 

I dont even think sag is a good starting point. Start with whatever the manufacturers pressure guide is and go from there without ever measuring sag. Its rarely good right off the bat, but it gets you started so you can make proper pressure adjustments from there.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Guys the sag is a starting point that is much easier for people to understand than speaking about frequencies etc. Then you can finetune based on feeling etc.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Well, reading up on the natural frequency of a suspension and how it matches to the terrain actually doesn't take THAT long compared to reading up thoroughly on sag settings and leverage ratios blah blah blah.

The other thing sag is an indicator of (assuming a linear wheel rate and no initial spring force) is how large of a force it will take to completely cycle the spring (measured in G's). Apply some correction factor for weight distribution and terrain steepness at each end and you'll have a more realistic setting.


----------



## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

One Pivot said:


> Dougal, I get basically lynched around here when I suggest people ignore sag numbers. Its a very difficult point to get across. People just wont do it, they love the sag! :lol:
> 
> I dont even think sag is a good starting point. Start with whatever the manufacturers pressure guide is and go from there without ever measuring sag. Its rarely good right off the bat, but it gets you started so you can make proper pressure adjustments from there.


so what you are saying is start with what SRAM says to have added for air? 
So by their chart and my weight I need to start at 85psi

so per the specs I found for the Pike 
Spring	85 psi
Rebound	6 Clicks out
Low speed compression	6 Clicks out

by "out" are they meaning from full in? Like compression knob 6 clicks from full open or cloed and rebound from full slow or fast?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

brent701 said:


> so what you are saying is start with what SRAM says to have added for air?
> So by their chart and my weight I need to start at 85psi
> 
> so per the specs I found for the Pike
> ...


Yes. Start there and then tune based on frequency.

Don't ever bother measuring sag. It is completely pointless.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

One question about this pike fork, without getting into specific settings: say you were riding on an even trail surface characterised by 1" high roots which are say 3" apart and travelling at 15mph. Would the pike be able to handle this by following the peaks and troughs at this speed, ie is a rebound fast enough. Or, is it not possible and the reasoning should*be to *have a deliberately medium /slower rebound such that the fork skims over the surface in a general sense. I think we need to address questions from this angle as if the former approach is not realistic it will really help me set mine up with much better clarity. Keen for responses!


----------



## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

lucifuge said:


> One question about this pike fork, without getting into specific settings: say you were riding on an even trail surface characterised by 1" high roots which are say 3" apart and travelling at 15mph. Would the pike be able to handle this by following the peaks and troughs at this speed, ie is a rebound fast enough. Or, is it not possible and the reasoning should*be to *have a deliberately medium /slower rebound such that the fork skims over the surface in a general sense. I think we need to address questions from this angle as if the former approach is not realistic it will really help me set mine up with much better clarity. Keen for responses!


Having the rebound set too fast makes the fork feel harsh, with bumps just pogoing back at you.

In that case the wheel won't be dropping and rising by 1 inch each time anyway due to wheel size, so I would say its still not best to have rebound too fast.

sent from my phone so apologies for any typos


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

So what trail characteristics would a ultra fast rebound be appropriate then?


Stuart B said:


> Having the rebound set too fast makes the fork feel harsh, with bumps just pogoing back at you.
> 
> In that case the wheel won't be dropping and rising by 1 inch each time anyway due to wheel size, so I would say its still not best to have rebound too fast.
> 
> sent from my phone so apologies for any typos


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Guys the rebound should be set based on your spring rate. If you run more psi then you need to increase rebound damping which means to make your rebound slower and vice versa.

So for me who run really high psi I also have high rebound damping. If it was the opposite and I had really fast rebound the fork could feel a little uncontrolled and more of pogo stick.

In general adjust your rebound fast enough without packing up or slow enough without packing down. It is a half full, half empty glass approach.

PS. In my last ride I decided to do with more sag than usual (around 30%) and the ride was so much improved and controlled vs the suggested psi. I used more travel, the fork was really plush but still supportive and I still had around 20mm left after the ride that could be saved for a bigger hit or drop.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

lucifuge said:


> So what trail characteristics would a ultra fast rebound be appropriate then?


Stutter bumps.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

You will have serious problems with drops and jumps if your rear suspension rebounds faster than the front.

The fork should rebound relatively fast. Exactly how much damping it needs depends on the spring rate, which of course depends on your weight and % sag.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The rebound knob only changes low speed rebound.


----------



## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

Update: 
Taken the bike out after installing a token. Running 75PSI 6 clicks rebound 4 clicks compression using about 70% travel over rough ish stuff with some hard hits ( small jumps) didn't hit the larger jumps or 3+ foot drop offs ( its getting hot, lol) fork feels way better with the token. 
May try and play with some more rebound and maybe try 70psi and see how it feels. 

Doing a stem test wed morning to see if it frees up some space for me. If not. Bike will be for sale anyways


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

You guys who have installed a token, did you really need to use a torque wrench to 24nm? I have a torque wrench but it only goes up to 22nm 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

No need. Just always apply grease to the seal and do up snug. Easy


alecd said:


> You guys who have installed a token, did you really need to use a torque wrench to 24nm? I have a torque wrench but it only goes up to 22nm
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Please explain?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Interesting

Rock Shox Tuning Camp - NSMB.com


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

I did a lower leg service on my Pike. After the fork was re-assembled I noticed that the first two clicks of the rebound knob requires too much force to click. What could be happened? I've tighten the bolts at 7 Nm as described in the manual.
Thanks.


----------



## mattwright999 (Jun 25, 2014)

lucifuge said:


> Interesting
> 
> Rock Shox Tuning Camp - NSMB.com


I noticed as well, the 3 tokens in a 160mm. Im currently running one, Im thinking I want to try 3 now >.>


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

lucifuge said:


> No need. Just always apply grease to the seal and do up snug. Easy


Thanks man! Just installed a token. Can't wait for the weekend.


----------



## masterp2 (Mar 4, 2007)

Can a 2015 27.5 Pike Solo Air be easily upgraded to dual position air? Does anyone have the new air cart part number? I would be running 160mm


----------



## masterp2 (Mar 4, 2007)

Can a 2015 27.5 Pike Solo Air be easily upgraded to dual position air? Does anyone have the new air cart part number? I would be running 160mm


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

masterp2 said:


> Can a 2015 27.5 Pike Solo Air be easily upgraded to dual position air? Does anyone have the new air cart part number? I would be running 160mm


No, its cheaper to buy a new fork.


----------



## masterp2 (Mar 4, 2007)

How so? Isn't the charger damper the same?? I would think I would only need the air spring change.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

masterp2 said:


> How so? Isn't the charger damper the same?? I would think I would only need the air spring change.


I don't know the exact story with the Pike. But with other RS forks you can be looking at new CSU and new air spring internals. So you're only really keeping the lowers and damper. Hence cheaper to buy a new fork and sell a working one.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

masterp2 said:


> How so? Isn't the charger damper the same?? I would think I would only need the air spring change.


The Solo air utilises a transfer port that is machined into the airside leg to allow the + and - chambers to equalise. The Dual position air uses the rod in the middle of the air spring to charge the - chamber with air.

Here is a photo of the dimple on the inner stanchion of a Solo air:


----------



## masterp2 (Mar 4, 2007)

So you are saying that the uppers are a different part?


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Advice needed.

Background. Brand new pike solo air. 140mm travel, 29er.
Ridden 10 hours approx, fork works well. Small bump compliance isnt great. Read reports of lowers being dry from factory.
Drop lowers, not as much oil as needed in there, but not bone dry either.
5ml 0w30 in damper side, 15ml of the same in air. Also relubed foam rings since they felt dry. Added a small amount of slick honey to lip seals as well.
Reassembled fork. Pump back to 85psi like it was before. Test rode, everything seems fine.
When fork is unweighted, when you press down on the bars now, at the very start of the stroke there is slight knock. It almost sounds like the fork is coming off the top-out bumper and you can feel it through the bars. The rest of the stroke is smooth, and feels the same as before. It's not noticeable while riding, but you can definitely feel it when doing a "parking lot" fork test while standing over the bike.

I dropped the lowers again, and removed the air spring, thinking my negative air spring dimple was plugged with grease, or perhaps the damper/air shafts weren't seated all the way on the lowers. Both the air shaft and damper shaft are fully seated, and the dimple is free of any grease plugging it. The top out bumper does make contact plastic/plastic on the air shaft, but you don't feel it on top out at all, only on start of stroke. Turning damper to lockout or trail mode does not remove symptoms. You can still feel the knock when fork is locked out. Turning the rebound to full turtle seems to be the only way to reduce it, but that's not a great way to run the fork.

Could it be the damper needs a bleed? Defective bushings from factory? Any advice would be helpful. Perhaps the fork always acted this way, but the dry lowers weren't allowing me to feel it? Is there a way to check bushings (besides visually?)

140mm solo air.
29
85psi, 2 tokens.
3 clicks low speed compression
8 clicks rebound

Thanks.


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

JoshM said:


> Advice needed.
> ...
> When fork is unweighted, when you press down on the bars now, at the very start of the stroke there is slight knock. It almost sounds like the fork is coming off the top-out bumper and you can feel it through the bars
> ...


Seems that this behavior is common to the Pike. Mine does the same.


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

H00rst said:


> Seems that this behavior is common to the Pike. Mine does the same.


Went for a ride on the steepest, rockiest trail around. Fork still works fine, and I can't detect any knock or noise while riding (besides the squishing of the damper). I'm guessing it's just fork top-out I'm feeling when doing it while stopped.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

masterp2 said:


> So you are saying that the uppers are a different part?


Yes.


----------



## Vuco (Jun 6, 2009)

JoshM said:


> Went for a ride on the steepest, rockiest trail around. Fork still works fine, and I can't detect any knock or noise while riding (besides the squishing of the damper). I'm guessing it's just fork top-out I'm feeling when doing it while stopped.


It's more like "o-ring passing the dimple and closing the positive chamber from the negative" feeling. Solo airs had that same thing in the past when there wasn't a "dimple technology" in the solo air forks. It's that position and a few mm before-after the equalizing point that is making this odd feeling. Just ride the fork and don't worry.


----------



## Jon_irun (Mar 21, 2011)

H00rst said:


> I did a lower leg service on my Pike. After the fork was re-assembled I noticed that the first two clicks of the rebound knob requires too much force to click. What could be happened? I've tighten the bolts at 7 Nm as described in the manual.
> Thanks.


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

There is nothing new for me in this video.


----------



## Jhah7 (Mar 30, 2015)

Hey guys I have a PIKE-RCT3-A1 on a 27.5. I'm a newbie and trying to figure our the basics of set up. I weight 200lbs w/ gear and have achieved 20% sag by filling up with air pressure per the specs on the fork. I am running the fork all the way open and am running all of the other rebound settings in the middle. I ride all mountain type trails at a medium speed. So far the fork is performing wonderfully but I notice quite a bit of movement on the top end for small bumps etc. I'm not bothered by this but have been thinking I might need to stiffen it up a bit? How should I go about fine tuning things? Other suggestions? 
Thanks.


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

Jhah7 said:


> Hey guys I have a PIKE-RCT3-A1 on a 27.5. I'm a newbie and trying to figure our the basics of set up. I weight 200lbs w/ gear and have achieved 20% sag by filling up with air pressure per the specs on the fork. I am running the fork all the way open and am running all of the other rebound settings in the middle. I ride all mountain type trails at a medium speed. So far the fork is performing wonderfully but I notice quite a bit of movement on the top end for small bumps etc. I'm not bothered by this but have been thinking I might need to stiffen it up a bit? How should I go about fine tuning things? Other suggestions?
> Thanks.


Maybe you need to increase LSC a bit?


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

What's a Pike "A1"?

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

Jhah7 said:


> Hey guys I have a PIKE-RCT3-A1 on a 27.5. I'm a newbie and trying to figure our the basics of set up. I weight 200lbs w/ gear and have achieved 20% sag by filling up with air pressure per the specs on the fork. I am running the fork all the way open and am running all of the other rebound settings in the middle. I ride all mountain type trails at a medium speed. So far the fork is performing wonderfully but I notice quite a bit of movement on the top end for small bumps etc. I'm not bothered by this but have been thinking I might need to stiffen it up a bit? How should I go about fine tuning things? Other suggestions?
> Thanks.


What was the final air pressure setting? And yes compression all the way open will use more travel quicker.
Don't get hooked up on the 20% sag figure. I can vary my sag setting by moving my body on the bike forward back up or down. If you need more air, add 10 psi and test again.


----------



## Jhah7 (Mar 30, 2015)

Thanks. I used 125 psi on the fork. I'm definitely going to play with the pressure and sag some (with my shock as well). I thought there might be a standard recommendation on the rebound settings that people start with?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

If you go thru the current 76 pages you see there's no such things as standard.

The most sensible approach is to start with the recommended pressure and try rebound in the middle. Ride it. Assess what you think needs changing. If you lower air pressure, you need to reduce the rebound. Alternatively if you up the pressure you tend to increase the rebound. It's a tough game and I'm still playing!



Jhah7 said:


> ... I thought there might be a standard recommendation on the rebound settings that people start with?


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

Has anyone managed to fix the creaking stanchions? I got some penetrating oil in there and it made it better for one day, but now it's back with a vengeance. Going to try removing the top caps and see if I can get some oil to seep in from the top. The fork is making an otherwise silent bike sound like a junker


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aerofooz (Jun 1, 2010)

I just developed the creaking on my new Pike after the first 10 rides. Wonder if RS will warranty the fork? Anyone else get their forks replaced for the creak?


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

I contacted the shop and they said it's warranty for sure. One of their mechs just did his. However I can't be without a bike for the 3 weeks it will take. I need it for work 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

What do you guys think about the "fresh new graphics" Pike for this year? 

Finally saw one in person at the LBS. I prefer the original graphics but I guess I may be biased.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I like it fine! I peeled it all off!


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Ok need some advice on setup. 
140mm 29er
250# riding weight
3 tokens 
100-105 psi for 27ish% sag
10 clicks lsc
Middle rebound 

In open mode fork feels smooth on faster terrain but when it gets steeper, slower and more tech it just dives through its travel. Any thoughts on adjustments or should I just plan on switching to pedal mode to help keep it up in its travel in these situations?


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

bigkat273 said:


> Ok need some advice on setup.
> 140mm 29er
> 250# riding weight
> 3 tokens
> ...


Try faster rebound as middle setting sounds plenty. It might be packing down and not recovering fast enough. You might also want to consider trying 20% sag.

I'm speaking from my own experience but yours will most probably be different. We're all here to learn from each other though and go through our own trial and error.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Your not getting enough middle stroke support. As you are already running a healthy amount of LSC only solution is to increase air. try 110psi, then maybe 115psi. might need to adjust rebound as you do so.



bigkat273 said:


> Ok need some advice on setup.
> 140mm 29er
> 250# riding weight
> 3 tokens
> ...


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

If I am reading it correctly you have 10 clicks from firm LSC which means you are only 2 clicks in from fully open. I would try a few more clicks of LSC or go either extreme and see how it feels. I am same weight and same fork on my stumpy expert but only run 1 token with 90 PSI which gives me roughly 25% sag. I find this ok and run 4 or 5 clicks of LSC from full soft. I like a linear spring rate and find this better with a 140mm fork as progressive can ramp up quite quickly on a shorter travel fork with a heavier Clyde like me. Some really steep trails just need to be ridden in the pedal setting if you want to limit the diving and also want it to feel nice on the not so steep trails. I would also play around with rebound and try either extreme to get more of a feel for how it changes the ride.
I also run 2.5w oil in the damper to help on the more square hits which also softened up the pedal setting slightly. Good thing about the pikes is the ease of tuning but can also feel bad if you don't get it right. 
I am also setting up a new Focus SAM 160 with an SA pike but will run some tokens in it for the bigger drops.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

niva1989 said:


> ....
> I am also setting up a new Focus SAM 160 with an SA pike but will run some tokens in it for the bigger drops.


Really keen to hear about the Focus SAM mate! Please link to reviews/setup you have of the bike.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

lucifuge said:


> Really keen to hear about the Focus SAM mate! Please link to reviews/setup you have of the bike.


Will do. Bought an ex demo frame with cranks. Will have a 2016 debonair turning up for it today. Should pair quite nicely with the pike 
Will post after a few test rides.


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Hi all Pike users. 

As i'm no specialist in suspension than would like to ask you here. 

My new set of 29 Pikie RCT3 and CC Inline are on their way. 
I heard that some forks/shocks neeg some initial service, maybe oil fix etc. 
That may sound strange, why to service somthing what is brand new however will sleep better with your blessing.


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Placek said:


> That may sound strange, why to service something what is brand new however will sleep better with your blessing.


Generally because a lot of the fork makers seem to be quite bad at putting the correct amount of splash lube in the lowers at the factory, so it's a good idea to drop the lowers in a lot of cases and check the oil levels. Running the fork dry with low or no oil in the lowers can cause premature wear in the forks bushings and seals.


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

So it's not regular but initial service is nice to have.


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Yeah, nice to have for sure. I know some of the guys here will tear down and service any fork, regardless of who manufactured it, before putting it on their bike just to make sure all is well.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

I agree worth checking lowers for sure then just get a feel for the fork on your bike with the standard adjustments before doing anything else. You may be able to get the right setup for you without doing anything other than standard adjustments. Pikes have a few advantages to the standard adjustments. Maybe just talk with your LBS if unsure how to check lowers.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

lucifuge said:


> Really keen to hear about the Focus SAM mate! Please link to reviews/setup you have of the bike.


Just noticed you are from Canberra....very jealous! Your spoilt for trails down there. Sydney has some awesome trails too but i do love Kowen and Stromlo. The frame I bought is from the bike reviewed in AMB earlier in the year. Getting back into some AM riding and hoping the SAM with Pikes and Debonair will be a good combination. Have been riding a stumpy 29er with Pikes for a couple of years now and It does have its limitations. Pikes do transform a bike though.


----------



## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

bigkat273 said:


> Ok need some advice on setup.
> 140mm 29er
> 250# riding weight
> 3 tokens
> ...


Hmm, I run my 120mm 29er Pike with 5 tokens (+1 from stock) @ 72 PSI, wide open mode and about 8 clicks of LSC. I added a token and reduced the PSI just a touch to get to this point because I also felt the fork was a touch too 'divey' in open mode with 4 tokens and 75PSI. About 1/2 way rebound has always been the way for me.

Now my fork is super plush in the initial travel and firms up a little better in the mid-end stroke without feeling as firm as the pedal setting. Can't bottom it no matter how hard I hit it now either, typically get about 5-10mm from full travel on gnarly rides.


----------



## wrxpilot (Jul 27, 2013)

Hey guys,

I have a 2014 Pike (Enduro Comp), and just found some pitting on the right stanchion. I posted a pic on this thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...fork-already-damaged-981681.html#post12078222

Anybody have a clue what this could be from and what I should do next?


----------



## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

wrxpilot said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have a 2014 Pike (Enduro Comp), and just found some pitting on the right stanchion. I posted a pic on this thread:
> 
> ...


Rock strike. Thats why you need a fender. Small rock was thrown there by the tire.


----------



## wrxpilot (Jul 27, 2013)

El_Zilcho said:


> Rock strike. Thats why you need a fender. Small rock was thrown there by the tire.


Damn. So now what (aside from shopping for a fender)?


----------



## zongman (Jul 28, 2014)

i just wet sanded mine with some 1000, 2000 grit sandpaper and then used polishing paste on it with a dremel. i figure if my nail isnt getting caught on it, it probly wont mess up the seals.


----------



## wrxpilot (Jul 27, 2013)

Ok, thanks for the reply!


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

jimlads said:


> I contacted the shop and they said it's warranty for sure. One of their mechs just did his. However I can't be without a bike for the 3 weeks it will take. I need it for work
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've had 4 sets of Pikes. The first two went back to SRAM to have the check valve 'fixed'(2-4 weeks each), so when the forks on the third bike started riding like caca doo-doo, and they started sinking into their travel, Senior Homes(me) wasn't playing that shiz, so I 'asked' them to send me a new cartridge instead. Funny thing was, about a month later, a couple weeks after I sold 'em, the new owner called asking how to go about having em 'fixed'. My long-winded point is, I don't know how many Pikes SRAM 'fixes', but next time you need 'em warranty-repaired, TELL THEM how it's gonna be handled and simply have them send you a new cartridge(air side).
By the WAY, the 4th set of Pikes were of the Dual Position variety-which comes stock on Trek Slashes. I bought one(Slash) and also bought a set of '15 Fox 36s. 
Oh, it's important to KNOW that the Dual Position Pikes do NOT have the 'problem', as apparently they use a different check valve entirely(straight outta the Avalanche dude's mouth, then confirmed by the sweaty SRAM CSR on the phone).
Good Ole Trek sez they're SOLO-AIR in the specs section for ALL the Slashes that come with the Pikes on their fricken website, and their CSRs only know what they're told(or what they see on their website), DESPITE the damn forks having TWO POSITIONS. I know I'm rambling on here, but BEAR with me.
Because far be it from me to say you CAN'T have two-position Pikes with their Solo Air cartridge, I elected to play it safe and get the 36s up front.
Okay we're here: For shitz and giggelz, I elected to lose a bit 'O Honey on their resale value, and cut the steerer tube and mount 'em up for a quick ride through one of my regular loops-because- They fricken said 'DUAL POSITION' right the heck on 'em, and why Trek doesn't pull their headz outta their collective aZZeZ and FIX what's written on their website is beyond me, but knowing DESPIte the fact that the DP's don't have the problem-child check-valve, that they're NOT gonna work as well as the 36s, I went ahead and cut the steerer on the Fox's at the same time to save time- BIG FREAKING MISTAKE-.
I shiot you niot, those damn Dual Position Pikes rode BETTER than ANY set of single-crown forks I've EvER ridden, PERIOD! Monday-morning quarter-backing the thing, sure it all makes sense. The Solo Air's ball check valve starts breaking its seal prolly the third time you cycle the fuggin things, and the ONLY thought that was circling in my mind at that point was, NOW I know what all the mags/rags are talking about when they spew on about how fricken well the Pikes work. Not that they actually experienced it mind you, 'cuz every 'review' I've ever read was on the Solo Airs. Unless SRAM spent bue(beu?)-coup dinero on every set of press fleet Pikes, engineering/machining in a WORKING fuggin check valve, all those 'reviewers' were simply ball-parking SRAM's own marketing-speak when 'describing' how the forks felt when ridden down the gnarliest trails this side of Downieville.
My point is if you're in the market for a set of Pikes, GET THE DP'S !!


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

The last sentence was all that I understood. 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

Me too


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

So is the take home message is that the solar air is a problem but the dual air is the way to go?


----------



## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

Vespasianus said:


> So is the take home message is that the solar air is a problem but the dual air is the way to go?


there isn't a dual air of the pike as far as I understand it


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

he's talking about the dual position?


----------



## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

Stuart B said:


> there isn't a dual air of the pike as far as I understand it


I think he meant dual position. There seems to be a large number of reports saying the opposite - that the damping on the dual position Pike is not as good as the Solo Air.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Enduro MTB magazine is reporting that the 2016 Pike will have new lower leg seals and damper seals, and can use either the standard 100x15QR hub or the proprietary hub SRAM developed for the RS-1. Apparently it's just the end cap for the axle - that's interesting.


----------



## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

expatrider said:


> I think he meant dual position. There seems to be a large number of reports saying the opposite - that the damping on the dual position Pike is not as good as the Solo Air.


I own both, the biggest draw back was their was no easy way to adjust volume on DPA air pike beside some rather expensive non sram part. The DPA air and solo air feel similar to me, but on different bikes it hard to tell if they are the same.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

BushwackerinPA said:


> I own both, the biggest draw back was their was no easy way to adjust volume on DPA air pike beside some rather expensive non sram part. The DPA air and solo air feel similar to me, but on different bikes it hard to tell if they are the same.


oh yes. I forgot that piece - also, the 2016 Pike dual-position will be able to use bottomless tokens.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Stuart B said:


> there isn't a dual air of the pike as far as I understand it


Honestly, I had a hard time following what he was trying to say.


----------



## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

Vespasianus said:


> Honestly, I had a hard time following what he was trying to say.


Ah I see what you were answering...yes rather difficult post to read let alone understand 

sent from my phone so apologies for any typos


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

ColinL said:


> oh yes. I forgot that piece - also, the 2016 Pike dual-position will be able to use bottomless tokens.


If you have a drill, the 2014 pikes can take bottomless tokens as well. Drill the centre of the token out to 10.5mm and slide it on the air shaft. I don't want anyone to think not having this ability is a deal breaker for this fork.


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

expatrider said:


> I think he meant dual position. There seems to be a large number of reports saying the opposite - that the damping on the dual position Pike is not as good as the Solo Air.


I'm certain they both use the same charger damper. Which if serviced/bled regularly are great. I guess they are referring to the air spring curve.


----------



## wrxpilot (Jul 27, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Looking for a quick sanity check on my sag setup...

Rider weight (with gear) at 210 lb
2014 Enduro Comp
CCDB Inline shock
Pike RC 160 (29er version)

Fork just had its 50 hour service, and replaced the seals.

For repeatability, I am jumping (lightly) up and down on the bike (in the "attack" position), then moving the shock/fork measurement o-rings to their stops as I stay in the static attack position. 

My rear shock sag is set at 17 mm per CC recommendations for my bike. 

To get my Front Fork set at 25% sag, I am running 50 psi. I also have two tokens, as it seemed like it was going to bottom out with one. Obviously this pressure is WAY different than the fork leg chart recommendation of 85-95 psi for my weight category. 

I talked to three different people at my LBS, and they all assure me this is not unusual and not cause for concern. My question is, what do you guys think? Does this make sense to have such a large variation between the recommended vs. actual pressure?


----------



## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

Sounds OK, I'm ~210 with kit and run 68 PSI in my fork. I am running the fork at 120mm with 5 tokens (1 more than stock) and 25ish% sag though. Super plush and I can't seem to bottom it.


----------



## wrxpilot (Jul 27, 2013)

wrxpilot said:


> My question is, what do you guys think? Does this make sense to have such a large variation between the recommended vs. actual pressure?


Ok... I'm an idiot. I was just watching this video for setting sag:





And I realized that I was not putting nearly enough bias for each sag check. I was setting my sag with my body more in the middle in other words. I was also using my rear brake to hold the bike, which apparently affects this as well.

After redoing my sag checks with the method shown in the video, I'm dead on with the fork specs.

Fork:
90 PSI, with one token.

Rear shock:
215 PSI (almost exactly what I weigh with gear).

This actually makes a lot of sense now... I recently did a ride with close to the above specs, and I thought the bike felt great. My last ride was with the settings in my original post, and it felt unsettled and just tracked weird.

Now I feel like I finally at least have a good baseline to start from!


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

I set both shock and fork in the attack position since this is the position I use when riding trails.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I have tried my best to keep up with this thread, but don't know if I have seen info for this or not. My pike is making some sounds when going over 2-5" roots/rocks. Its more of a fluid whochiii whochii sound. I am guessing a Charger bleed is in order?


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

jonshonda said:


> I have tried my best to keep up with this thread, but don't know if I have seen info for this or not. My pike is making some sounds when going over 2-5" roots/rocks. Its more of a fluid whochiii whochii sound. I am guessing a Charger bleed is in order?


More then likely. Sounds like air in the charger damper. These things require a lot of attention unfortunately.


----------



## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Does anyone have any insight as to what might be happening with my Pike? Both the lockout and LSC adjustments do nothing at all. Nothing. 

I've done a bit of research at the googlepedia but don't seem to find anything that seems to specifically address my symptoms.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

bad andy said:


> Does anyone have any insight as to what might be happening with my Pike? Both the lockout and LSC adjustments do nothing at all. Nothing.
> 
> I've done a bit of research at the googlepedia but don't seem to find anything that seems to specifically address my symptoms.


The damper has air in it. Either a warranty job if under 2 years old or fix it yourself.


----------



## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

I have ex-demo Pike and first it needed really high pressure and 3 tokens so it wouldn't bottom out. Then I took it to warrantly service where oil change and bleeding was done together with better lower seal of damping unit. Now the same problem is starting again, and after 8 rides, it is bottoming out again and pressure increase helps only a while. Where is it leaking, some upper seal or what?

I mean that it let air go in.


----------



## aussieprime (Sep 18, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> I have tried my best to keep up with this thread, but don't know if I have seen info for this or not. My pike is making some sounds when going over 2-5" roots/rocks. Its more of a fluid whochiii whochii sound. I am guessing a Charger bleed is in order?


Yep it sounds like you have air in the charger damper. If you want to do it yourself then there are great instructions here http://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/blog/how-to-bleed-rockshox-charger-damper/

I've followed the steps and they are pretty straight forward if you give yourself an hour to do all of the work.

Also you can order the charger damper bleed tool from epic bleed solutions.


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Hi Guys!

So I just did a stupid crazy ride over the weekend I am now calling "the mudfest" and throughout the ride i had heaps of mud collect on my Pike's stanchions and crown area (to visualize imagine dumping 3 pints of chocolate ice cream on your stanchions). I took care to remove them by hand when excessive, wash down with water when I could, and made sure they didn't dry and "cake up". However, I'm pretty sure my fork travelled with a good amount of mud still there in between all that. Gladly, no scratches on the stanchions.

My question: Are the stock wiper seals good enough to keep slimy mud directly on the lower part of the stanchions out of the lowers? As I know they're made for dust, not mud. And, would this be a good time to drop the lowers and do a service?

Lesson learned: Put a friggin marsh guard on, especially when you already have one handy but was too lazy to put it on.

Edit: Make that Rocky Road ice cream.


----------



## Trajan (Feb 9, 2004)

I would not take that chance. Drop the lowers and make sure they are clean. Better safe than sorry.


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

I would agree it only takes a few minutes to drop lowers anyway. Just make sure you have slick honey and 30w handy.


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Thought so. Thanks for reinforcing what I should have just gone ahead and done. Off to buy some fork oil tomorrow.


----------



## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

Had mine pretty muddy and were clean when opened, but worth a look. 

sent from my phone so apologies for any typos


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Hi. I have a 160 Pike RC that was stock in my Enduro 29 and I have two questions (issues).

First of all there seems to be a dead spot on the top of the travel. So when the fork is fully extended and I slightly press it there is a 5mm dead spot that I can also feel if I raise the bike from the stem. Is this normal?

Also I have some brake dive. I run 80psi that give me 30% sag in the attack position and I also have 1 token installed but when I brake the forks dives. Not crazy diving but still it does. I suppose that I could add some more psi but then I am afraid that it will become too stiff. What do you think?

Also when you measure your sag do you do it in the attack or seated position? 

Thank you in advance.


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

gpgalanis said:


> Hi. I have a 160 Pike RC that was stock in my Enduro 29 and I have two questions (issues).
> 
> First of all there seems to be a dead spot on the top of the travel. So when the fork is fully extended and I slightly press it there is a 5mm dead spot that I can also feel if I raise the bike from the stem. Is this normal?
> 
> ...


5 mm of dead spot is definitively not normal.

If your fork dive too much then you should add some clicks of LSC


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

And measure sag in the attack position.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

So I checked again and the actual dead spot is around 3mm which doesn't sound much and I don't feel it when I am riding but still it is annoying to know that it exists. 

Apart from that I don't have any major complaints and overall the bike feels balanced with the Pike and the Monarch Plus Debonair in the back but I am still experimenting in order to find the optimal settings for AM use.


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Check the zip tie burp idea... It might free up your travel.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Could be air in your damper. Quite common if it hasn't had the rebound shaft seal head upgraded.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Thank you guys. I will check it next time I visit my LBS.


----------



## DaHeckler (Jan 18, 2009)

niva1989 said:


> Could be air in your damper. Quite common if it hasn't had the rebound shaft seal head upgraded.


I've seen lots threads about the 3mm dead spot but have not heard the "rebound shaft seal head upgrade" is that a recall type item that the lbs should know about?


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

DaHeckler said:


> I've seen lots threads about the 3mm dead spot but have not heard the "rebound shaft seal head upgrade" is that a recall type item that the lbs should know about?


So, can someone clarify, if there should be a dead spot or not?
In fact, I just performed the lower legs service. Before that, the Pike was fully extended but quite stiff on small bumps. And, when I removed virtually all the air, there still remained some (negative spring) and it did not get down to 'zero'.
Now, when doing the service, I followed one of the youtube videos (MBR guy), and released completely all the air as shown in the video.
However, now the fork stays at about 10% sag without load - see the pic. Although it rides softer, I don't like the change of the geometry and 'less travel available'.
The Pike is 160/26 Solo RCT3


----------



## t8500 (Mar 26, 2008)

paulki said:


> So, can someone clarify, if there should be a dead spot or not?
> In fact, I just performed the lower legs service. Before that, the Pike was fully extended but quite stiff on small bumps. And, when I removed virtually all the air, there still remained some (negative spring) and it did not get down to 'zero'.
> Now, when doing the service, I followed one of the youtube videos (MBR guy), and released completely all the air as shown in the video.
> However, now the fork stays at about 10% sag without load - see the pic. Although it rides softer, I don't like the change of the geometry and 'less travel available'.
> ...


Just did lower leg service and had the same thing happen,so i pumped it up to about 120psi and then did the zip tie trick, could hear lots of hissing (air coming out) then went back to my normal 60 psi, no more dead spot  fork feels mint.


----------



## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Isn't the so called dead spot/slight clunk at the start of travel something to do with the air equalisation port in the air spring? Every Pike I've tried has had it and I don't really see it as a problem.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

paulki said:


> So, can someone clarify, if there should be a dead spot or not?
> In fact, I just performed the lower legs service. Before that, the Pike was fully extended but quite stiff on small bumps. And, when I removed virtually all the air, there still remained some (negative spring) and it did not get down to 'zero'.
> Now, when doing the service, I followed one of the youtube videos (MBR guy), and released completely all the air as shown in the video.
> However, now the fork stays at about 10% sag without load - see the pic. Although it rides softer, I don't like the change of the geometry and 'less travel available'.
> ...


It happened to me and many others as well. People suggest the lowers aren't supposed to be pushed all the way up when tightening the bottom screws... Read the comments under the video...


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

So, even in the above two posts, one says it's normal and another says not...
anyone tried to contact SRAM and get a definite answer?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

This is not normal. Let all the air out, remove the valve core and cycle the fork a few times then refill it and make sure you have full travel. There may be air trapped in the lowers. If there is then invert the fork and loosen the lower bolt on the spring (left) side and let the trapped air out, then re-tighten. Don't burp the fork through the stanchion seal!


----------



## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

These are two different issues surely. 

If people's forks aren't extending to full travel, either they are creating a vacuum in the lowers during reinstallation (by compressing the fork whilst doing up the foot bolts), air is leaking from the spring into the lowers, or the pos and neg chambers are not equalising properly. 

If the so called dead spot goes away when the fork is sucked into its travel then it's obviously masking the problem, not fixing it


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I've have two Pike forks and neither has had these stuck down issues. I agree that it sounds like some are chamber equalization issues and others are leaking air springs. I'm just not sure why folks are having the issues!


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

manitou2200 said:


> This is not normal. Let all the air out, remove the valve core and cycle the fork a few times then refill it and make sure you have full travel. There may be air trapped in the lowers. If there is then invert the fork and loosen the lower bolt on the spring (left) side and let the trapped air out, then re-tighten. Don't burp the fork through the stanchion seal!


Sorry for dumb questions: 1. how do you remove the valve core?
2. when I seat on the bike, the spring (left) side is on my left?

P.S.: this 'sag without weight' issue started to appear only after I followed that MBR youtube video and compressed the fork with no air in it when tightening the bolts


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

I also have a 3mm dead spot at the top and try to find a way to eliminate. For what is worth I had a similar dead spot in my brand new Lyrik RC2DH and Domain RC in different bikes so it much be a RS issue.

Anyway I have seen the video and also read the comments and it does make sense to have the fork fully compressed before tightening the bolts because otherwise it will create 2 air springs (and this why the dead spot may dissappear because you have the trapped air further pushing) but on the other side it may also create a vacuum. 

So if I compress them I will have a vacuum and if I don't I may have air trapped that will make the fork feel harsher. Am I missing something?


----------



## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

What video is this?

I don't understand why people are compressing their fork whilst doing up the lowers. It's exactly what you don't want to do if you want to achieve full travel. Is everyone is doing it to remove the dead spot? In my experience it's not even noticeable during proper riding, and it's not worth losing 5-10% travel over 

There is nothing wrong with having the air in your lowers at atmospheric pressure. Obviously they are designed to work this way. This burping the lowers business with a zip tie through the oil seal does exactly the same thing and people are always going on about how much better their fork feels after that. Having 14psi in the lowers isn't going to drastically change how they ride imo. If you are worried about the spring effect the incompressible oil in there would be far more significant surely.


----------



## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

paulki said:


> Sorry for dumb questions: 1. how do you remove the valve core?
> 2. when I seat on the bike, the spring (left) side is on my left?
> 
> P.S.: this 'sag without weight' issue started to appear only after I followed that MBR youtube video and compressed the fork with no air in it when tightening the bolts


1- use a valve core removal tool

2- yes, the side you pump air is the spring (left), side with knobs is the damper side(right)


----------



## mikericci (Oct 29, 2013)

This is the tool: http://www.amazon.com/RockShox-Schrader-Valve-Core-Removal/dp/B00554452K

The air spring uses a regular shrader valve.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

mfa81 said:


> 1- use a valve core removal tool
> 
> 2- yes, the side you pump air is the spring (left), side with knobs is the damper side(right)


Thanks for the explanations!
the removal of valve +cycling did not help.
And, I noticed, the 'suck in' level is basically proportional to the pressure put in.
Say at 130PSI, it is close to normal zero sag but still ~3-5mm. Then at 50Psi it's nearly half of the travel.

So next try - the bolt: have 2 questions here
1. remove the air
2. remove the bolt
3. Tap it or not to release?
4. assemble fully extended?


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Ok, what I found out today when exchanging the air shaft and oil in lovers that you need to have the both, air shaft and damper extended when putting back the lowers. If you do it like in that video with it all the way in your fork will be sinking and not extending fully. 
So the fastest way would be to drop the lowers again, lube the dust seals, refill the oil and reinstall properly.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

jazzanova said:


> Ok, what I found out today when exchanging the air shaft and oil in lovers that you need to have the both, air shaft and damper extended when putting back the lowers. If you do it like in that video with it all the way in your fork will be sinking and not extending fully.
> So the fastest way would be to drop the lowers again, lube the dust seals, refill the oil and reinstall properly.


Well, (another) stupid thing I just done is unscrew the air bolt completely and now the air shaft is sucked in and I cannot put back the bolt - any ideas to bring it back (other than doing lower legs service again...) 
Tx in advance


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

paulki said:


> Well, (another) stupid thing I just done is unscrew the air bolt completely and now the air shaft is sucked in and I cannot put back the bolt - any ideas to bring it back (other than doing lower legs service again...)
> Tx in advance


Did you pull out and reinstall the air shaft previously?
It shouldn't be sucked in. 
That's another thing which I believe was wrong in the video.
Also the RS Pike manual says to install the air shaft extended. It shouldn't be pushed in when putting the snap ring back. In that video, he tries to avoid scratching the air shaft by pushing it inside, but then it gets sucked in.

You can still push the lowers up in order to tighten the bolt, but it might not get fully extended again.

Read the Pike servive manual.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

jazzanova said:


> Did you pull out and reinstall the air shaft previously?
> It shouldn't be sucked in.
> That's another thing which I believe was wrong in the video.
> Also the RS Pike manual says to install the air shaft extended. It shouldn't be pushed in when putting the snap ring back. In that video, he tries to avoid scratching the air shaft by pushing it inside, but then it gets sucked in.
> ...


I did not pull out the air shaft. And, when i fully compress the fork, the bolt still does not get engaged with the shaft.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

paulki said:


> I did not pull out the air shaft. And, when i fully compress the fork, the bolt still does not get engaged with the shaft.


You can try to unscrew the top, where the tokens go and push the air shaft down.
Or you can still remove the lowers...


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

jazzanova said:


> You can try to unscrew the top, where the tokens go and push the air shaft down.
> Or you can still remove the lowers...


ok - got the air shaft 'back' by simply putting some air in the fork, so it pushed towards the hole.
But that darn air shaft is sucked in back so I cannot extend the legs while putting the bolt back in. So , I guess, lower legs service... I however not sure if I will be able to extend the air shaft after legs are stripped off...

Why this 10 min job becomes a whole day nightmare?.. 
Can't f...g RS put EXACT step by step service procedure for this stupid thing?..
I opened their latest 50 page manual and it says nothing how exactly this sh...t should be assembled.
Extend the shaft, then put the legs, then put in oil, then tighten the bolt. Or something like that. It's a single f...g sentence. 
No - 50 pages of ... Who are those idiots writing those useless manuals?..

Now, to add to all that, the 2014 Manual lists:
Non-Drive Side 15 mL
Drive Side 5 mL

and, 2015
Non-Drive Side 10 mL
Drive Side 10 mL

I have 2014 Pike , - which one should I follow?


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

paulki said:


> ok - got the air shaft 'back' by simply putting some air in the fork, so it pushed towards the hole.
> But that darn air shaft is sucked in back so I cannot extend the legs while putting the bolt back in. So , I guess, lower legs service... I however not sure if I will be able to extend the air shaft after legs are stripped off...
> 
> Why this 10 min job becomes a whole day nightmare?..
> ...


Hmm, I didn't find the manual to be complicated. You just need to jump over the damper and air shaft service.
I wasn't aware of the change of oil volume in the lowers though. If O were you I would simply call Sram and ask them. They should know the best


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

I didn't say the manual is complecated . it's just missing some important 'small' details which is the reason why I spend so much time for so simple procedure. and also many others who don't assemble it correctly and ride sub performing pikes


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Did you remove the circlip and open up the air spring? I'd do that and clean the air shaft out with a clean rag and isopropyl alcohol, then re-lube the air shaft piston and seal head o-rings, then re-assemble everything. You can always add just a little air to the spring before you assemble the lowers to the stations to help keep the shaft extended. 
I've done a couple service on my forks and have not had any trouble with them what so ever.
They changed something in the 2015 Pike to allow more bath oil in the drive side. If yours is a 2014, then it's 15ml non drive and 5ml drive side.


----------



## jminus (Sep 4, 2008)

Well, I have a creak now on my 2015 Pike 26 160 with 115 miles on it or so. It just developed over the last ride or two. I was able to quickly isolate with the flip-over the bike method. 

I dealt with the same issue on my Fox 32 Talas CTD... thought I was going to escape dealing with this sort of thing on the Pike.

Anyone have any luck sending them back for warranty? I have read several people saying that they got replacement forks which just started creaking again. 

Can't be without the fork in the middle of riding season so I am going to give it the locktite 290 treatment and keep riding it.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

manitou2200 said:


> Did you remove the circlip and open up the air spring? I'd do that and clean the air shaft out with a clean rag and isopropyl alcohol, then re-lube the air shaft piston and seal head o-rings, then re-assemble everything. You can always add just a little air to the spring before you assemble the lowers to the stations to help keep the shaft extended.
> I've done a couple service on my forks and have not had any trouble with them what so ever.
> They changed something in the 2015 Pike to allow more bath oil in the drive side. If yours is a 2014, then it's 15ml non drive and 5ml drive side.


I removed the lower legs.
I did not open the air spring - I am afraid to do it now...
The thing is that the air shaft is sucked in up to the tube end. The only way to extend it totally is to put a lot of air in it before assembling. But, I understand, it will be unridable.
Is there any way to get out of this situation? And, why this vacuum thing happens? 
Is it that there is a piston that is clogged or something? 
The closest SRAM dealer is 100 miles away and unfortunately, I need to deal w that alone... B.t.w., bought the Pike form Bike24


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Take a 15/16" or 24mm socket and remove the top cap of the air spring (after letting the air out and removing the Schrader valve core). Then take a wooden dowl wrap a clean rag around it and insert it in the spring and push the piston down. Though I'd really suggest removing the circlip from the bottom of the spring and pulling the piston out and cleaning it like I mentioned earlier. It's not hard to do but you need circlip pliers.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

jazzanova said:


> Did you pull out and reinstall the air shaft previously?
> It shouldn't be sucked in.
> That's another thing which I believe was wrong in the video.
> Also the RS Pike manual says to install the air shaft extended. It shouldn't be pushed in when putting the snap ring back. In that video, he tries to avoid scratching the air shaft by pushing it inside, but then it gets sucked in.
> ...





gpgalanis said:


> Hi. I have a 160 Pike RC that was stock in my Enduro 29 and I have two questions (issues).
> 
> First of all there seems to be a dead spot on the top of the travel. So when the fork is fully extended and I slightly press it there is a 5mm dead spot that I can also feel if I raise the bike from the stem. Is this normal?
> 
> ...





bigkat273 said:


> Check the zip tie burp idea... It might free up your travel.





manitou2200 said:


> I've have two Pike forks and neither has had these stuck down issues. I agree that it sounds like some are chamber equalization issues and others are leaking air springs. I'm just not sure why folks are having the issues!


ok, now reading thoroughly the above above...
so how can one check which of the 2 problems there is? 
Probably, mine is the equalisation problem.
what is the cause and how to fix?


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

paulki said:


> ok, now reading thoroughly the above above...
> so how can one check which of the 2 problems there is?
> Probably, mine is the equalisation problem.
> what is the cause and how to fix?


So here are my findings - hope they will help others w. similar problems.
1. when the legs are fully extended by hand (may need bike upside down to do) there should be a hiss sound which indicates the equalization port is not clogged.
I actually removed fair amount of lube from above the air piston just by opening the upper 24mm side. (Still not sure what is the correct amount of lube there)
2. If the equalization is working properly, there is no need in opening air side or zip trick. You only need to remove the air completely (the valve core is the best way to make sure no air), and then extend the legs till the hiss sound.
3. It's not all the story - there is a negative air chamber in the damper side, creating vacuum if not bolted fully extended during the service. This one may create the negative sag, and, I believe, none have mentioned it. So to equalize the air in this side with the outside, I just put the bike upside down and undone the bolt, depressing it after 3 turns. Then extended the legs, put the bolt back. (You could do zip in, but I hate this idea...)
4. There is still about 3-5% sag under the weight of the bike itself.
Since when I lift the front over the stem, this sag goes to 0%, I think/hope this is normal. Unless there is some other problem that I'm not aware of.

I think there can be 0% sag when either there is some positive pressure in the damper side which is theoretically impossible, or the equalization is not working properly, thus creating higher pressure in the pos. chamber.


----------



## dabuttrumpet (Jul 1, 2013)

There can also be a vacuum in the air side, do the same thing you did on damper side to the air side. This fixed my problem that you are describing. A few threads down is my problem thread.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

dabuttrumpet,
so do you have your fork sitting at 0% sag now, or there is still some 3-5% sag with no weight? I believe there SHOULD be some 3-5% since this is exactly where the equalization happens ~3mm of dimple in the beg. of the travel.
when the air is equalized, any weight will create some sag, until the dimple is closed, and there is a higher pressure in the upper chamber. If it does not happen, then I believe, the equalization port is clogged...


----------



## dabuttrumpet (Jul 1, 2013)

It sits maybe at 1-2mm. When I compress and release the fork, I can hear the chambers equalizing. You are strictly talking about the air side, but you can have a vacuum in the damper side also...


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

that's how it looks now


----------



## dabuttrumpet (Jul 1, 2013)

Before:








After:


----------



## dabuttrumpet (Jul 1, 2013)

I don't think you want the edge of the fork to sit on the dimple, it should cross the dimple when the fork is slightly compressed. My rear Fox Float x with Vorsprung Corset will cross the dimple when it is slightly compressed.


----------



## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Rick Draper said:


> The damper has air in it. Either a warranty job if under 2 years old or fix it yourself.


Good call, this was exactly it. I tore it down and a buttload of damper oil came out of the damper side when I loosened the lowers' screws. The lower sealhead for the damper was leaking (common problem I understand) I guess with no oil in the damper, there is nothing for the lockout and lsc circuitry to work against, makes sense. Nonetheless I rebuilt with a new seal in the sealhead and all is well again. If it leaks again, I'll throw in that NSD sealhead upgrade.

Thanks


----------



## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Hey I forgot to mention, when I did my rebuild, I noticed the foam rings were really stretched out/expanded. I was planning on re-using the originals until I realized they were so much bigger than fresh ones, that they would slide right over the stanchions without making any contact. Anyone experienced this? Does the oil allow them to stretch out over time or something?


----------



## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

bad andy said:


> Hey I forgot to mention, when I did my rebuild, I noticed the foam rings were really stretched out/expanded. I was planning on re-using the originals until I realized they were so much bigger than fresh ones, that they would slide right over the stanchions without making any contact. Anyone experienced this? Does the oil allow them to stretch out over time or something?


It's better to replace the old foam rings.


----------



## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

from SRAM's service manual

L o w e r L e g A s s e m b l y...

step 5 page 47

Slide the lower leg assembly along the upper tubes until it stops
and the spring and damper shafts are visible through the lower leg
bolt holes.

do not compress the fork all the way upon lower leg installation. that MBR video is wrong.

some links to videos here:





slightly older video from SRAM but they make no mention of compressing the lower legs all the way upon reassembly. 





2014 = 5ml drive side, 15ml non drive side









2015 = 10ml drive side, 10ml non drive side


----------



## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Hmmm I wonder why the oil volume change. Internals should've the same, correct? Except the revised seal heads.ivegot both so. Guess I need to open the 15/16 up.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

dmar123 said:


> from SRAM's service manual
> 
> L o w e r L e g A s s e m b l y...
> 
> ...


While I'm likely late to the party...

Installing the lowers with shaft compressed will cause a negative air spring in the lowers upon airing up the fork.


----------



## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

I actually picked up a copy of MBR last time I was in the UK they had an article on travel adjust on the pike and again showed doing it compressed, wonder why they refuse to follow the SRAM guidance?


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Obviously not even Sram do it properly in the factory because otherwise there shouldn't be dead spots in so many forks including mine.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

gpgalanis said:


> Obviously not even Sram do it properly in the factory because otherwise there shouldn't be dead spots in so many forks including mine.


There will always be a dead spot as the air piston transitions the transfer port.


----------



## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

dmar123 said:


> from SRAM's service manual
> 
> L o w e r L e g A s s e m b l y...
> 
> ...


I just finished this service about an our ago, saw that video too. Luckily I read the comments and realized not to compress the fork like that.

However, I have read in more than one forum that people are saying the 2015 fork can take 10ml drive/10ml non-drive of fluid. Where is everyone getting this info?

I did some research and SRAM docs say 2015 Pikes take 5ml drive/15ml non-drive.
https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...ev_b_rockshox_oil_air_and_coil_chart_2015.pdf

If there is something I am missing, please inform me. I just want to be able to sleep at night knowing there is enough oil in my fork!


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Dickbrown said:


> I just finished this service about an our ago, saw that video too. Luckily I read the comments and realized not to compress the fork like that.
> 
> However, I have read in more than one forum that people are saying the 2015 fork can take 10ml drive/10ml non-drive of fluid. Where is everyone getting this info?
> 
> ...


The 2016 sram pike service manual says 10ml both sides. And the manual is entitled "for 2014 to current" pikes. I think this is what is causing confusion.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

Hmm, could be, I did find this:
https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...ion_fluid_air_and_coil_spring_charts_2016.pdf

Looks like 2016 Pikes do take the 10/10 but says nothing of previous forks. I will be making a call to SRAM tomorrow and will report back.


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Dickbrown said:


> Hmm, could be, I did find this:
> https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...ion_fluid_air_and_coil_spring_charts_2016.pdf
> 
> Looks like 2016 Pikes do take the 10/10 but says nothing of previous forks. I will be making a call to SRAM tomorrow and will report back.


Cool! Let us know what they say. And while you're on the phone with them, would you mind also asking what they have to say about the whole closing the pike lowers extended or compressed debate to finally put that to rest? 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I guess I don't understand why everyone is having a hard time following the sram manual for the pike lower leg service. Slide the lowers on until the shafts make contact with the lowers. I really have a hard time trusting a 3rd party service video tbh. 

I did notice a lot of play (2-3mm) in the charger damper side shaft/seal head. The air spring shaft had very little side-to-side play, while the charger damper side had a lot. 

Time for an Avalanche open bath I am thinking.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

why the play bothers you guys - the shaft anyway fixed with a bolt to the outer legs. I guess the main problem w charger is its sealing system. I wonder if someone tried that after market nsd head seal and have a long term report about how it holds?


----------



## jimlads (Oct 17, 2009)

Well I got my pike creaking csu fixed here at crankworx by the sram mechanics. They replaced the stanchions and crown, somehow kept the old steerer tube (I guess these can be pressed out and into another crown). Bike is now wonderfully silent again!


----------



## tburns1956 (Mar 4, 2015)

I am looking to upgrade to a Pike. Have a pretty good deal on a DP 150/120. I have not been able to locate any info on how to adjust the travel from 120 to 130 or 140. I do not see any thing about this in the SRAM service manual. Anyone have further info?


----------



## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

DPA pikes have a lever that allows travel adjust on the fly. Just note the lower setting is really comb only vs. full time use.


----------



## tburns1956 (Mar 4, 2015)

So to adjust the travel to 140 would you just rotate the travel control 1/3 of the way? Does the fork ride as well at 120/130/140 as at 150?


----------



## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

On the 150/120 it either 150 or 120. No in between.


----------



## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

tburns1956 said:


> So to adjust the travel to 140 would you just rotate the travel control 1/3 of the way? Does the fork ride as well at 120/130/140 as at 150?


No, it's a Dual Position air fork, not Triple or Quadruple position.


----------



## tburns1956 (Mar 4, 2015)

fsrxc said:


> No, it's a Dual Position air fork, not Triple or Quadruple position.


ok, thanks. I have not been able to find anything on the SRAM service area but had read this in the question area of chainreactioncycles:
Can Dual Position Air on Pike set to increment 20mm instead 30mm? So the fork travel move between 120-140mm.
Age: 35 to 44
Gender: Male
Attitude: Passionate and Obsessive
1 month, 3 weeks ago
by ChamelionShah Alam,MY
ANSWER THIS QUESTION
HELPFUL0UNHELPFUL0Report inappropriate content
1I have this question too
Answers
PASSIONATE AND OBSESSIVE
Yes, it's on a dial adjusted. There is 30mm of adjustment so if you move the dial 33% it will decrease or increase by 10mm (its not going to be exact but you can fettle it somewhere near)
Age: 35 to 44
Gender: Male
Attitude: Passionate and Obsessive
1 month, 2 weeks ago
by Rihel
HELPFUL0UNHELPFUL0Report inappropriate content
STAFFON THE UP
Yes, the 30mm is the simply the maximum amount of travel adjustment/drop.

However note that this is not the Dual Position model; it can be found on the listing below.
Attitude: On the up


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I've personally never been a fan of travel adjust forks. The only one I had was a Totem and I converted it to a solo air after 2 months.


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

tburns1956 said:


> ok, thanks. I have not been able to find anything on the SRAM service area but had read this in the question area of chainreactioncycles:
> Can Dual Position Air on Pike set to increment 20mm instead 30mm? So the fork travel move between 120-140mm.
> Age: 35 to 44
> Gender: Male
> ...


Incorrect. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet
😕


----------



## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

manitou2200 said:


> I've personally never been a fan of travel adjust forks. The only one I had was a Totem and I converted it to a solo air after 2 months.


Im not sure i follow you. For what reasons? Have you tried the ones being spoken about in this thread? Why didn't you like them?

They serve a purpose, and of course, are not marketed at every one.


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

MeridaManiac said:


> Im not sure i follow you. For what reasons? Have you tried the ones being spoken about in this thread? Why didn't you like them?
> 
> They serve a purpose, and of course, are not marketed at every one.


I thinks it's because by and large, most travel adjust forks (at least air based ones) have been problematic to say the least. Add to that the fact that they have tended not to work as freely as fixed travel forks due to them needing more seals, hence more stiction on the initial movement.
Like you say though, they aren't for everybody and some riders like to able to adjust their travel for differing situations, so they have their fans.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

MeridaManiac said:


> Im not sure i follow you. For what reasons? Have you tried the ones being spoken about in this thread? Why didn't you like them?
> 
> They serve a purpose, and of course, are not marketed at every one.


I don't like them because they are more complex, they usually don't work well, they have more stiction, they're problematic, heavier, require more maintenance and I just don't like to fiddle with adjusting travel while riding. I'm more about setting a bike up to work well and just riding it. I really think they are kind of gimmicky!


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Thought about getting a travel adjust fork before, but read about its issues, the reviews that they suck in the lowered setting, and that a lot of people who have them ending up not using the lowered setting anyway. Decided to get a Pike Solo Air. Was thinking about going 150mm only to save a 0.5 degree HTA change from a 140 fork, but just went ahead and bit the 160mm (1deg slacker than my 140mm fork).

It took one ride to get used to it. Now I actually like climbing more with it compared to my old 140 fork so I just don't get the whole fuss about "slacker head angles not climbing as well."

To each his own though. I'd love to hear some testimonials about Dual Position Airs. Anyone out there swear by it?


----------



## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

tburns1956 said:


> ok, thanks. I have not been able to find anything on the SRAM service area but had read this in the question area of chainreactioncycles:
> Can Dual Position Air on Pike set to increment 20mm instead 30mm? So the fork travel move between 120-140mm.
> Age: 35 to 44
> Gender: Male
> ...


I have a Dual Position Revelation which is either down or up, haven't found an in-between setting.

The new Fox Talas allows changing the drop amount with spacers, plus max travel with shuttles, so that might give you the options you want.


----------



## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

alecd said:


> Cool! Let us know what they say. And while you're on the phone with them, would you mind also asking what they have to say about the whole closing the pike lowers extended or compressed debate to finally put that to rest?
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Talked to a tech at SRAM this morning, I asked 3 questions regarding the Pike:

1. What year fork do I have?

Find the code on the crown of the fork. First 2 numbers are the week it was made. The first number after the letter indicates the year.







I have 2014 Pike

2. How much oil in the dirve/non-drive side when doing service, 5/15ml or 10/10ml?

He stated that for 2016 forks the new manual states 10/10ml. He went on to say that it really doesn't matter for the other forks. 5/15 is fine and 10/10 would also be fine. You won't harm the fork either way.

3. Is it necessary to compress the fork to screw in the bottom bolts when re-attaching the lowers?

He said that when you screw in the bolts on the lowers it draws the rods into the fork and secures them, so compressing the fork all the way is not necessary. Which is why the hammer is needed when doing the service. I then asked him if it is bad for the fork to compress it when re-attaching. He simply stated "Why would you want do that?"


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Dickbrown said:


> Talked to a tech at SRAM this morning, I asked 3 questions regarding the Pike:
> 
> 2. How much oil in the dirve/non-drive side when doing service, 5/15ml or 10/10ml?
> 
> ...


A few things:
Reg 2: the previous 2014 manual stated clearly that exceeding 5ml (and 15ml) might damage the fork ... this of c. for the pre-2016 models

Reg 3: I serviced my Pike recently for the first time after about 8 months of riding it. Here is the trade off I actually experienced myself assembling and riding it after. 
I saw that 'known' MBR video and first followed its advise fully compressing the fork to screw in the bolts. Air to my standard 70psi. The result: about 1cm less travel - the sucked in effect of the vacuum. But butter smooth riding, excellent small bump compliance and traction, blow through the travel on even small drops <1M. Not satisfied...
Opened the lowers, oil etc., fully extended *both* rods, screwed in bolts. Air to my standard 70psi. The result: fully extended fork, feel hard to compress, bouncy, nod good small bump compliance and traction, excellent fast ride over mid and big bumps, holds well drops of all sizes. (LSC is set to the fastest response). Played w. rebound - strangely, the faster the rebound the less bouncy and more smooth it feels at high speed riding. Still not satisfied...
Seems like there is a (big) trade off, and it seems there are two 'types' of people and forks here. That's probably why some are saying their Pikes are butter smooth and some saying they need 50 psi to have the fork smoother. But, of c. there are people who ride the Pike fast and like the performance. 
My complaint and problem is that my trails very from very rough rock garden descents to smoother fast DH's. And I cannot satisfy all my needs with my Pike...
PITY! - It could be a great fork, I like its stiffness and simplicity, but...


----------



## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

On the silver fastener bolt (rebound adjust side) the max cc amount is printed right on the bolt. for my 2014 fork it says !5 cc max. Pretty much dummy proof.

Also just installed the NSD seal head, and bled the damper. Looking forward to that butter smooth low bump sensitivity like when i first bought the fork.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

dmar123 said:


> On the silver fastener bolt (rebound adjust side) the max cc amount is printed right on the bolt. for my 2014 fork it says !5 cc max. Pretty much dummy proof.
> 
> Also just installed the NSD seal head, and bled the damper. Looking forward to that butter smooth low bump sensitivity like when i first bought the fork.


What's the NSD seal head cost?


----------



## dabuttrumpet (Jul 1, 2013)

I hope you have better luck than I did... I replaced the seal head with the NSD, bled the damper, and replaced every single O-ring. It felt great for my first ride, but after the 5 hour ride in Lake Tahoe it felt horrible again. Super stiction and it went back to the way it felt before the service. I sold the pike and got a DVO Diamond, tons of adjustability and it feels super smooth with 0 stiction. Never looking back


----------



## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

dabuttrumpet said:


> I hope you have better luck than I did... I replaced the seal head with the NSD, bled the damper, and replaced every single O-ring. It felt great for my first ride, but after the 5 hour ride in Lake Tahoe it felt horrible again. Super stiction and it went back to the way it felt before the service. I sold the pike and got a DVO Diamond, tons of adjustability and it feels super smooth with 0 stiction. Never looking back


I wouldn't say mine ever felt horrible to the point of wanting to sell it and buy a new fork (like the ol fox forks).

So far I had this fork for about a year or so with A LOT of riding, everything from xc to dh to dirt jumping on it and am pleased with it.

Aside from upgrading the seal head this fork has been bomber for me.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

dmar123 said:


> I wouldn't say mine ever felt horrible to the point of wanting to sell it and buy a new fork (like the ol fox forks).
> 
> So far I had this fork for about a year or so with A LOT of riding, everything from xc to dh to dirt jumping on it and am pleased with it.
> 
> Aside from upgrading the seal head this fork has been bomber for me.


I have rebuilt both pairs of Pikes I own a couple of times now. Both have NS seal head. Even having to do this they are much better than any other fork I have owned. especially FOX!


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

niva1989 said:


> I have rebuilt both pairs of Pikes I own a couple of times now. Both have NS seal head. Even having to do this they are much better than any other fork I have owned. especially FOX!


So, did you feel any difference after installing NSD sealhead, or you did it as a preemptive measure?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

paulki said:


> So, did you feel any difference after installing NSD sealhead, or you did it as a preemptive measure?


I did it on my 140 29er forks when performance dripped off. It happened gradually and I just did a few temporary bleed fixes before replacing the seal head. Didnt have any issues after replacing with NSD seal head. I also bought a pair of second hand 160mm for my other bike. They had some minor staunch damage and had about 9 months of riding on them without a service. I threw them on as is and they felt horrible. I did a full service on them and NSD seal head at same time. Lower leg on damper side had heaps of oil in it from damper. Damper also had air in it. I also notice the bladder was deformrmed. Totally transformed after rebuild. Nice and plush again. Have about 600km on the 140mm and 200km on the 160mm and still great.


----------



## bhmax (Dec 7, 2010)

I only have about 350mi on my Pike, but it's been great so far. Previous was a coil Sektor with upgraded dampers, which I was also very happy with. The Pike seemed just ever so slightly harsh on small bumps when I first got it, even after fiddling with everything to get it as good as I could. I weigh 150lbs, and others here around the same weight seemed to think lighter damper oil helped. I switched to Redline 2.5wt and put Mobil1 in the lowers. It's been feeling great since then(250mi or so?). Whether due to the damper oil, bath oil, breaking in, or just being all in my head I don't know. Fortunately haven't seemed to have any issues others here are having. 

Just looked at the new service instructions, and find the revalving of the rebound damper interesting. I've never changed out shims before so I don't know much about that. Currently running 18 clicks out from full in. If I were to change to light damping, what improvements could be seen? Something that can't be seen when you're near the end of adjustment like me? I might do the seal head and revalve at some point in the winter. Curious about what anyone that has done a lot of revalving has to say on that.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

bhmax said:


> Just looked at the new service instructions, and find the revalving of the rebound damper interesting. I've never changed out shims before so I don't know much about that. Currently running 18 clicks out from full in.


I'm 173lbs ready to ride. I'm 18 clicks on the rebound. I want to go the soft tune, I've already had Dougal soften the compression stack for me as the fork is way too firm. It's interesting that they had a rebound tune in those instructions, I wonder if compression is coming?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

niva1989 said:


> I did it on my 140 29er forks when performance dripped off. It happened gradually and I just did a few temporary bleed fixes before replacing the seal head. Didnt have any issues after replacing with NSD seal head. I also bought a pair of second hand 160mm for my other bike. They had some minor staunch damage and had about 9 months of riding on them without a service. I threw them on as is and they felt horrible. I did a full service on them and NSD seal head at same time. Lower leg on damper side had heaps of oil in it from damper. Damper also had air in it. I also notice the bladder was deformrmed. Totally transformed after rebuild. Nice and plush again. Have about 600km on the 140mm and 200km on the 160mm and still great.


Also forgot to mention that i replaced the 3wt oil with 2.5wt Rockshox oil. Slightly lighter so not 100% on whether it was worth it yet. I read in another forum that some guys were doing this with good results so thought I would try. Aparently makes a difference on the bigger square hits.


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

After nearly an entire summer of tinkering I have had a break through.

140 29er
250# riding weight
2 tokens
6 clicks lsc
107 psi
25% sag

I had been running 3 tokens @ 100psi bc I was so sure I was riding "aggressively" but I never used more than 100mm on my normal rides. On a whim I pulled a token yesterday and bumped the psi up. Despite the higher pressure my small bump performance is much improved and I used 90% of my travel on the biggest hits. I think I may still consider an avalanche Midvalve tune this winter to ease up on the lsc but I'd be happy running it stock next year.


----------



## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Bigcat

Your expirience has inspired me to finally work with my pike. 
Please correct my concerns. 
My Pike issue is that i'm using max 75%of it's travel. 
When i lowered PSI than travel has improoved however that was not solution- whole bike was too plush and SAG increased to 40%.

Would 'removing' 1-2 tokens improove this issue. Still have 20-25% SAG but use more travel.


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

I would try removing one token at a time and see what happens. Keep in mind you're going to have to run a little bit higher pressure to achieve the right sag but so far so good for me.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bigkat273 said:


> After nearly an entire summer of tinkering I have had a break through.
> 
> 140 29er
> 250# riding weight
> ...


Looks like the sweet spot for us heavier riders. I have same riding weight as you and came to the same setup through trial and error. Same bike setup too (140 29er). Found it is a good all round setup. I ride pretty mixed trails here in Oz. Also summer all year round so plenty of time for testing. I have just setup a new bike (well new second hand) Focus SAM 160. Have a 160 SA Pike on it. I am running:

90PSI
2 Tokens
4 Clicks LSC
30% SAG

Is a better setup for that bike as it has a bit more travel to blow through. Might go with a few more clicks of lsc to reduce brake dive slightly but maybe i could also just stay off the brakes a bit more . Not feeling much difference with RS 2.5w oil in damper but midstroke does feel pretty smooth.

I have a Debonair on the rear which compliments the pike. Have been sick lately so havent given it a full test yet but dying to get back out and hit some more techy trails that are in rhe limit of my 140 29er  Will update on how it performs.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Another Pike damper option. Courtesy of Bike Radar

Juice up your RockShox Pike with an Öhlins damper - BikeRadar USA









And further down the page.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I think I just spilled my yogurt



Mudguard25 said:


> Another Pike damper option. Courtesy of Bike Radar
> 
> Juice up your RockShox Pike with an Öhlins damper - BikeRadar USA
> 
> ...


----------



## bentyyc (Aug 3, 2006)

*RCT3 with more than three clicks?*

Just picked up a 2015 RMB T-Bolt BC Edition which comes with a 130mm solo air. Overall, both the Pike and the Monarch feel "good" but was wondering about the following:

I'm assuming the RCT3 positions are (approximately):
- Open at about 2 o'clock
- Pedal at about 3 o'clock
- Lock at about 4 o'clock

My fork has a fourth click/detent of the RCT3 dial just "left" of 12 o'clock (around 11:30). The dial can also go past the 4 o'clock position, all the way down to about 6 o'clock (but there is no detent, just won't go further).

I assumed there would be only the three detents an no other dial positions. Does this sound like a concern?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

The RCT3 should have 3 positions only. Something sounds awry.



bentyyc said:


> Just picked up a 2015 RMB T-Bolt BC Edition which comes with a 130mm solo air. Overall, both the Pike and the Monarch feel "good" but was wondering about the following:
> 
> I'm assuming the RCT3 positions are (approximately):
> - Open at about 2 o'clock
> ...


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bentyyc said:


> Just picked up a 2015 RMB T-Bolt BC Edition which comes with a 130mm solo air. Overall, both the Pike and the Monarch feel "good" but was wondering about the following:
> 
> I'm assuming the RCT3 positions are (approximately):
> - Open at about 2 o'clock
> ...


The knob relies on friction to grip the compression dial underneath it. Sounds like it has come loose. You will need to run through the assembly proceedure in the service manual. It is pretty easy and will sort out your problem.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Hi guys. I am also a heavy rider at 113 kg (250 lbs) and I think that I have dialled my Pike RC 29 160 when it comes to tokens, psi and sag. I use on token, 105 psi and 25% sag in the attack position. 

However I am not sure about the rebound. Personally I prefer it on the slow side considering that I am heavy and run a lot of psi but I have heard that the Pike works better with faster rebound. I tried today with 14 clicks for full closed and I wasn't that happy with the performance. Then I tried 6 clicks from full closed and I think that it was much more controlled overall. 

I will keep experimenting but what do riders of my weight usually use when it comes to rebound settings?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I would think approx 6 from closed given your weight sounds pretty spot on to me. Also, it's only the low speed rebound. If it feels right, keep it and ride it.



gpgalanis said:


> Hi guys. I am also a heavy rider at 113 kg (250 lbs) and I think that I have dialled my Pike RC 29 160 when it comes to tokens, psi and sag. I use on token, 105 psi and 25% sag in the attack position.
> 
> However I am not sure about the rebound. Personally I prefer it on the slow side considering that I am heavy and run a lot of psi but I have heard that the Pike works better with faster rebound. I tried today with 14 clicks for full closed and I wasn't that happy with the performance. Then I tried 6 clicks from full closed and I think that it was much more controlled overall.
> 
> I will keep experimenting but what do riders of my weight usually use when it comes to rebound settings?


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

I don't know exactly how many clicks of rebound I have but I am just a few clicks past middle towards slow.


----------



## bentyyc (Aug 3, 2006)

niva1989 said:


> The knob relies on friction to grip the compression dial underneath it. Sounds like it has come loose. You will need to run through the assembly proceedure in the service manual. It is pretty easy and will sort out your problem.


Thanks for the replies niva1989 and lucifuge!

Can anyone confirm the "standard" position of the 3 modes? 1-2-3 0'clock? 2-3-4 o'clock?

Cheers!


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bentyyc said:


> Thanks for the replies niva1989 and lucifuge!
> 
> Can anyone confirm the "standard" position of the 3 modes? 1-2-3 0'clock? 2-3-4 o'clock?
> 
> Cheers!


Sorry for the delay. Have been travelling. Mine is 2, 4 & 6 oclock.


----------



## rhyolite (Dec 11, 2006)

Can someone explain to me the creak testing method? I've read about it somewhere before, just can't track is down again. Flip the bike over, remove the wheel and bend the legs back and forth? I suspect my almost new '15s have developed a creak


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

rhys.l said:


> Can someone explain to me the creak testing method? I've read about it somewhere before, just can't track is down again. Flip the bike over, remove the wheel and bend the legs back and forth? I suspect my almost new '15s have developed a creak


I havent heard of the method you are talking about. You would need to be sure it isn't your headset. I would strip that down lube every joint then see if it goes away. If you clean your bike regularly you can wash all the lube out of there and create a creak between the bearings and the crown steerer tube that sounds like it is coming from the fork.


----------



## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

This is how I did it on a Bos Deville:





Sent from my D6633 using Tapatalk


----------



## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Alright y'alls. If you let all the air out of your Pike, does it suck itself down to around 50%? Mine does, and it's actually kind of difficult to get it back to full travel by hand. But my Sektor solo air doesn't do this. I tried the ziptie burp and nothing happened.


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

Stuck down happened to me also. Tried different methods like adding max PSI(150) to the air chamber and bounce around but I'm so light that the fork wouldn't compress much if at all. So I let all the air out slowly using a shock pump, turn the bike upside down with the front wheel off and compressed the fork up and down with pump attached a few times. Then added around 20-30 PSI and used a soft rubber mallet and tapped the bottom of the air side. Don't whack it hard but soft/medium taps. I then proceeded to add the max 150PSI back in to de-compress it. From there, you slowly let air out to your regular PSI. For whatever reason, that combination worked for me. Maybe it was pure luck or tapping the bottom with a mallet assisted in freeing the oil in the negative chamber. Hope that helps


----------



## eicca (May 9, 2014)

ScottieM8 said:


> Stuck down happened to me also. Tried different methods like adding max PSI(150) to the air chamber and bounce around but I'm so light that the fork wouldn't compress much if at all. So I let all the air out slowly using a shock pump, turn the bike upside down with the front wheel off and compressed the fork up and down with pump attached a few times. Then added around 20-30 PSI and used a soft rubber mallet and tapped the bottom of the air side. Don't whack it hard but soft/medium taps. I then proceeded to add the max 150PSI back in to de-compress it. From there, you slowly let air out to your regular PSI. For whatever reason, that combination worked for me. Maybe it was pure luck or tapping the bottom with a mallet assisted in freeing the oil in the negative chamber. Hope that helps


Helped indeed! I'm not sure if it was when I pumped it up to 150 or when I incrementally depressurized it while cycling up and down, but now it's fine. The negative has equalized and it no longer sucks itself down when letting the air out.

Only problems left are the charger bleed and lubing the bushings.


----------



## senseye1977 (Sep 4, 2013)

I have 2 pikes and both of them had excessive grease on the air piston and upper air chamber when they were new. It blocked the dimple to equalize air pressure for the upper and lower air chambers. Filling it up with high pressure would force the grease out.

Also tapping the loosened bottom bolt would let the air trapped in the lowers out. Which would give the same result as inserting the zip tie through the seals. But this procedure masks an even more serious problem wherein the seal head is leaking air from the negative chamber to the lowers. I had this problem on my second fork and sent it to had it serviced. The fork had a defective seal head. This problem gave me a very inconsistent fork, plush at the beginning of a ride at 25% sag and ending up really harsh with less than 15% sag.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

I apologise for this but this will be another "help me setup my Pike" post. 

I have a Pike RC 160 with one token installed that was stock on my Enduro 29 and I am around 110 kg (242 lbs). 

I have tried various settings but I can't still find the perfect one (if that even exists). Regarding psi and sag I have tried different combinations from 240 psi ( around 30% sag) to 290 psi (around 25% sag - maybe less) but I either get a plush but not that supportive ride or a really stiff but supportive one. Please note that I measure the sag in the attack position and even with the less psi I don't get full travel. As for the rebound I prefer more damping for a slower but more controled ride. 

So am I missing something? How can I have a plush but still supportive ride and use almost all my travel? Should I install more tokens for support and run less psi for small bump performance? But won't more tokens prevent me from using more travel? 

Or should I add more psi in order to get less sag and more support but run no tokens in order to have a more linear feeling and use more travel?


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^ There is no way you have that much air in your fork. I am 235lbs and run 120psi. The Pike performs very well at the 20% sag area fyi. :thumbsup:


----------



## probiscus (Dec 10, 2011)

Also, at that weight (+gear) you'd be well served by a custom tune if the stock shims are giving you that much trouble. Also, if that PSI is real, something is wrong with your fork.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Sorry guys my mistake. I had a difficult day today  ! These are the Monarch Plus Debonair psi. 

The lower I run is 80psi for around 30% sag and the max is 110 for around 25% sag.


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

gpgalanis said:


> Sorry guys my mistake. I had a difficult day today  ! These are the Monarch Plus Debonair psi.
> 
> The lower I run is 80psi for around 30% sag and the max is 110 for around 25% sag.


I would definitely experiment with 2 or even (more likely) 3 tokens for that rider weight and 160 travel Pike.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Considering that I don't get full travel even with 80 psi what would be the benefit of the extra tokens? Less psi and better small bump sensitivity but still good mid support?


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

gpgalanis said:


> Considering that I don't get full travel even with 80 psi what would be the benefit of the extra tokens? Less psi and better small bump sensitivity but still good mid support?


Yes, that is what you should expect from the extra tokens.
How far from full-travel are you getting at 80 psi? And, what is sag percentage at 80?


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

With 85 psi I get around 30% sag (maybe a little more) and I use 130 mm (out of 160).


----------



## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

gpgalanis said:


> With 85 psi I get around 30% sag (maybe a little more) and I use 130 mm (out of 160).


Hmmm. Sorry, man, I'm stumped. Not sure why you're not using all travel with 30% sag. Definitely seems like you should be using all travel with those settings.

Regardless, it's easy to install the tokens/spacers, and it makes a big difference in how the fork feels. So, I think it's worth experimenting with them. Good luck.


----------



## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Thank you. I need to do some more testing.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

MeridaManiac said:


> Im not sure i follow you. For what reasons? Have you tried the ones being spoken about in this thread? Why didn't you like them?
> 
> They serve a purpose, and of course, are not marketed at every one.


The DPA Pike has worked very well for me. I really like the low setting for steep tech climbs.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

alecd said:


> Thought about getting a travel adjust fork before, but read about its issues, the reviews that they suck in the lowered setting, and that a lot of people who have them ending up not using the lowered setting anyway. Decided to get a Pike Solo Air. Was thinking about going 150mm only to save a 0.5 degree HTA change from a 140 fork, but just went ahead and bit the 160mm (1deg slacker than my 140mm fork).
> 
> It took one ride to get used to it. Now I actually like climbing more with it compared to my old 140 fork so I just don't get the whole fuss about "slacker head angles not climbing as well."
> 
> To each his own though. I'd love to hear some testimonials about Dual Position Airs. Anyone out there swear by it?


I love mine. I can certainly notice a big difference between 150 and 120 on climbs. It rides fairly well in the 120 setting and the steeper HA helps some on really twisty rolling track.

In my riding area, we have some very, very steep climbs and every little advantage can be a big help. Putting it to 150 is sweet when you go back down those steep parts.

For the places that I ride, the travel adjust works quite well.


----------



## TrailBlaza (Sep 2, 2008)

Quick question about the origins of a noise that has been irritating me recently. Last week I reduced the travel of my pike to 150mm from 160mm and added 1 token. It appears that the fork has now developed a clicking noise occurs over small bumps at low and high speeds. The noise is reminiscent of cables slapping against the frame and occurs at the very beginning of compression. I can replicate the noise tapping the front wheel down or initiating compression by grabbing the uppers and lower. This is not a knocking sound. I remember my Revelation RCT3 had a similar sound but did not notice the noise when my pike was at 160mm. Any ideas?


----------



## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

TrailBlaza said:


> Quick question about the origins of a noise that has been irritating me recently. Last week I reduced the travel of my pike to 150mm from 160mm and added 1 token. It appears that the fork has now developed a clicking noise occurs over small bumps at low and high speeds. The noise is reminiscent of cables slapping against the frame and occurs at the very beginning of compression. I can replicate the noise tapping the front wheel down or initiating compression by grabbing the uppers and lower. This is not a knocking sound. I remember my Revelation RCT3 had a similar sound but did not notice the noise when my pike was at 160mm. Any ideas?


Well, since you just installed a new air shaft in the fork I would want to look at the piston on the shaft and make sure its not loose since I know some of the solo air shafts can make a click or knock noise right at the top of the stroke there at the equalization point.

I have not had a newer Pike in for this noise yet (but I have had older solo air RS forks do this) and seen some complaints where guys with newer Pike forks had something like this going on (whether it was a CSU click or loose bushings ?)

This will sound stupid but I have had two people that have had a Token unscrew and fall down and make a clicking noise where it rattled around in the air side when hitting bumps. (this was fairly easy to find and those came to me from the bike shop)

I hope you get it corrected soon I know how irritating noises can be.


----------



## TrailBlaza (Sep 2, 2008)

kelstr said:


> Well, since you just installed a new air shaft in the fork I would want to look at the piston on the shaft and make sure its not loose since I know some of the solo air shafts can make a click or knock noise right at the top of the stroke there at the equalization point.
> 
> I have not had a newer Pike in for this noise yet (but I have had older solo air RS forks do this) and seen some complaints where guys with newer Pike forks had something like this going on (whether it was a CSU click or loose bushings ?)
> 
> ...


The click sound definitely occurs when the air chamber goes from equalized to closed. I guess it is just louder with the new shaft. The shaft and the bottomless token are not loose.


----------



## tratch (Jul 14, 2010)

Make sure you do a service if you are having any issues. I had ~10mm of dead travel at full extension (fork would drop whenever the front was lifted) and my compression knob stopped doing anything.

I just took mine apart and found way too much Sram Butter in the air chamber, probably clogging the equalization port and causing the slop at the end of travel. I am waiting on a bleed kit before I can put the whole fork back together, but I've re-assembled the air chamber and it seems the slop is gone.

I also discovered I have one of the defective seals at the bottom of my damping leg; when I pulled the lower legs, damping oil poured out along the damping rod before I had even started taking apart the chamber. It is likely that air was sucked in to the charger and that's why my lockout quit working. The new seal kits supposedly have an updated seal to solve the issue.

Looking down the air chamber (upper left leg) at the top of the piston head








Air piston head








Air piston head and negative air chamber








Here's the tiny little port (squarish looking divot on the leftish bottom side of the tube)


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

tratch said:


> Make sure you do a service if you are having any issues. I had ~10mm of dead travel at full extension (fork would drop whenever the front was lifted) and my compression knob stopped doing anything.
> 
> I just took mine apart and found way too much Sram Butter in the air chamber, probably clogging the equalization port and causing the slop at the end of travel. I am waiting on a bleed kit before I can put the whole fork back together, but I've re-assembled the air chamber and it seems the slop is gone.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the same problem we have all had. New seal head and kit will fix all your problems. You wont believe how different it will feel.


----------



## BobbyWilliams (Aug 3, 2004)

In the middle of a rebuild now... I have a whole tub of Park PPL-2, do I really need to stop here and go order up some SRAM butter? Or shall I just use the Park and move on? Are they any different? 

Also for the air spring the only thing that indicates it needs to be geased is the air piston, do the rest of the O-rings need to be greased too? The manual dosn't say they do...


----------



## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

Do not use the Polylube, just wait for some sram butter or slickhoney.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Managed to sort the issue with my Pike being too harsh.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Mudguard25 said:


> Managed to sort the issue with my Pike being too harsh.


haha! Nice one! I replaced mine with a Lyrik which feels much better but not a massive difference. Air spring and stiffness are the most noticeable. Maybe i should have done what you did......


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

For those of you doing frequent service. Do you like going with factory seals and oil rings and changing them out more often (if so how often?) OR something more expensive like SKF seals but changing them less often.

As reference my fork is 2.5 years in and on second set of factory seals. After recent lowers service with reusing seals I seam to be getting more oil seep than expected. Thinking about what path to take for the next service.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Structure said:


> For those of you doing frequent service. Do you like going with factory seals and oil rings and changing them out more often (if so how often?) OR something more expensive like SKF seals but changing them less often.
> 
> As reference my fork is 2.5 years in and on second set of factory seals. After recent lowers service with reusing seals I seam to be getting more oil seep than expected. Thinking about what path to take for the next service.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I switched over to the SKF seals during my last lower leg service and there's a noticeable improvement. No question the fork feels better. 
I would now use nothing other than the SKF seals.


----------



## yoebanshee (Aug 8, 2014)

Structure said:


> For those of you doing frequent service. Do you like going with factory seals and oil rings and changing them out more often (if so how often?) OR something more expensive like SKF seals but changing them less often.
> 
> As reference my fork is 2.5 years in and on second set of factory seals. After recent lowers service with reusing seals I seam to be getting more oil seep than expected. Thinking about what path to take for the next service.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just ordered skf seals.. thinking of doing full rebuild service on my fork.. any review on skf seals?

Btw, isn't it normal when you get the oil seep? (Just asking because i experience the same thing)


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Mudguard25 said:


> Managed to sort the issue with my Pike being too harsh.


Too funny. You find the Mattoc to be even plusher than the Pike?


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> Too funny. You find the Mattoc to be even plusher than the Pike?


I've only had 1.5 hours on the Mattoc so once I've got another ride in I'll switch threads to the Mattoc forum! I found the Pike too harsh (RC 26 160mm) for my riding, great in the park, not so great for trail riding.


----------



## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

moved from separate thread:

I read the big "Pike 2014" thread, didn't see the answer.

I'm a year in on my pike. Time to look at more than just the lower leg service. ( Way over 100 hours ... )

Air spring side looks pretty easy ( solo-air ).

I need to replace the seal head on the charger/damper side because I have the older model. I have the upgraded seal/service kit.

Question is: Do I have to take that whole thing apart to 
A) do a proper service/replace fluid in charger damper
B) replace the damper seal head

Why? Because taking apart the damper assembly seems a bit fiddly ... the manual states 100 hours for _changing the damper fluid_ but doesn't say anything about replacing all the damper parts. ( basically comes down to o-rings )

My fork seems to work pretty well ... I really want to do what is needed for preventative maintenance to keep it running smooth.

Was wondering if I could do something that was more like a bleed/fluid change + replace the seal head without taking the entire damper assembly apart. ( or if I should suck it up and do what is in the manual )

Thanks in advance.


----------



## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Sorry for the extra posts. When I took the lowers off, I swear there were no crush washers. There was the thinnest little ring of metal ... but that was it. Here's a pic showing the two bolts - I'm pretty sure the old crush washers are not on there. New crush washer in pic for reference.

















Am I crazy? I tried picking at the black part of the bolts ... but ... seems to be part of the bolt.


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Crush washers were a major pain for me to get off too. Used pliers and a small screwdriver but all the time really thinking I was going to fudge up the bolt. Would love to know a better way to get them off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Mine look the same. I left them as is and reassembled the fork, so far no problems with leaks. 
As for rebuilding the entire damper, you probably really can't say until looking. I would replace the rebound glide ring at least since you will have the rebound shaft out to replace the seal head. I just added new fluid when I changed my seal head, swapped in new glide ring. The low speed compression adjuster/bleed plug/low speed needle all have orings that you can change when you do a bleed without taking apart the entire damper.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

slcpunk said:


> Sorry for the extra posts. When I took the lowers off, I swear there were no crush washers. There was the thinnest little ring of metal ... but that was it. Here's a pic showing the two bolts - I'm pretty sure the old crush washers are not on there. New crush washer in pic for reference.
> 
> View attachment 1052488
> 
> ...


They are there. Just a pain to get off. The full seal kit comes with new bolts.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

slcpunk said:


> moved from separate thread:
> 
> I read the big "Pike 2014" thread, didn't see the answer.
> 
> ...


You could just replace the sealhead and bleed but it seriously isnt that much more work to service the whole thing. If you have the bleed tools it isn't that hard to do. Just read manual and make sure you have all the required tools.If you just suck it up and do the whole thing you wont need to touch it again for a long time.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

slcpunk said:


> Sorry for the extra posts. When I took the lowers off, I swear there were no crush washers. There was the thinnest little ring of metal ... but that was it. Here's a pic showing the two bolts - I'm pretty sure the old crush washers are not on there. New crush washer in pic for reference.
> 
> Am I crazy? I tried picking at the black part of the bolts ... but ... seems to be part of the bolt.


You just have to use a dental pick and pop off the black crush washers and crush rings. It not that hard to do. You don't need new bolts and you shouldn't really reuse the crush washer and rings.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I can confirm that the latest Pike full rebuild kits do come with SKF seals. These kits I just received are week 50, year 2015.


----------



## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Wow, thanks for all the replies - so those really are the "crushed" crush washers on there!

If the kit does come with the bolts - fantastic, I won't worry about it. If not, I'll get out my pick and get to work. 

Thanks to everyone for the input.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

That little aluminum ring... I had that too and though it was just some excess metal sheared off of the rod or lowers. ?


----------



## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Miker J said:


> That little aluminum ring... I had that too and though it was just some excess metal sheared off of the rod or lowers. ?


Yeah, I'm not sure about that. Maybe someone else who's taken more of these apart will know. I had that on both sides.

I did the full service yesterday. It went pretty well. A couple of thoughts on the process for anyone thinking about it. As others have said, it's not rocket science - you can do it! Here are the things that I think are important ( others have mentioned these too, nothing ground breaking here )


You will need good snap ring pliers, and probably in two sizes. I had a set, and they worked fine for the larger snap-ring, but I needed some with really small tips for the smaller ring on the damper side.
Some of the interior o-rings were pretty fiddly ... I got them out fine, but it took a headlamp and some deep breathing and patience to get them back in. Especially the one in the compression cam assembly, shown here:







I had a bit of trouble putting the damper side back together, but only because I didn't get the low speed adjuster back in all the way. This prevented the snap ring from being inserted in the proper spot. Anyway, it was obvious something was wrong because I couldn't install the adjuster knob, but it took me a few tries to realize it wasn't the snap ring that I was screwing up, but that I didn't get the low speed adjuster inserted all the way. This bit:








I wasn't sure about the lower leg install either - conflicting information about if the legs should be compressed when installing the bolts or extended or what. I actually forgot about it and so the legs were sort of in the middle somewhere. The official SRAM manual doesn't mention it. The MBR video on youtube makes a point of compressing the legs all the way before installing the bolts.

Otherwise, it took me at least 3 hours ( I'm not fast ... ) but I think it went well. ( Still need to really test out the fork at this point, although basic functions seemed to work. )


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

The small alloy ring breaks off from the inside of the lower leg casing. If you look closely in the lower bolt hole with the damper or air shaft removed you will see where it has broken off from.

Also you want the fork extended when you install the lowers, not compressed.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

mikodipo said:


> Based on the manual, the 26" 160mm air shaft is the same length as a 27.5 150mm, so if you use the same air shaft, the travel will be 150mm. You will need to buy a new air shaft to keep 160mm.
> 
> Have you tried contacting sram? you'll get a better answer from them instead of from people who haven't done what you're asking about.


Has anyone done this yet?

I can get Pike 29 lowers pretty cheap these days, and even if it mean my 160mm 275 DPA was now 140mm 29er, I could live with that.


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Was cleaning my bike under a bright light today and noticed some of the black anodized finish is wearing off the upper tubes of my fork on the damper/drive side of the fork.

Hopefully this is a warranty replacement as the fork isn't even a year old.
I also checked the oil levels in the lowers before I rode the fork when I first got it. What would have caused the wear? You can see it in the pictures as the two light colored vertical marks on the stanchion just above the dust wiper, running parallel to each other.


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Mine are over 2.5 years old but have the same on one side. Doesn't seem to be a problem, though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

They seem to work fine, I just didn't want to see anodizing coming off so early in their life. 
I just had the fork apart to do the seal head upgrade and damper bleed. Added the proper amount of oil to the lowers, and used slickoleum on the dust wipers.


----------



## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm not an expert, but having just looked inside my lowers, I would say those lines match up to the edges of the bushing - the bushings have little gaps or grooves in them, which would be the space between those lines. Guessing slight wear from the bushings.


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

slcpunk said:


> I'm not an expert, but having just looked inside my lowers, I would say those lines match up to the edges of the bushing - the bushings have little gaps or grooves in them, which would be the space between those lines. Guessing slight wear from the bushings.


Originally when the pike came out the damper side only called for 5ml of oil in the lower leg, now I see the 2016 fluids chart from rockshox is calling for 10ml of oil in both sides.

Perhaps too little splash oil in the damper lower leg was causing a lack of lubrication between the upper bushing and upper tube.


----------



## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

My brand new Pike (solo air 27.5 150 mm) had about 3-4mm of dead travel at the top of its stroke, resulting in a clunky feeling when lifting the front wheel off the ground and setting it back down (both riding and moving the bike). 

I called SRAM and they said it's excess SRAM butter around the seal head on the air side blocking the dimple that allows the positive and negative chambers to equalize. I had read that before in this thread, but was happy to hear it from a SRAM tech.

Yesterday I opened up the air spring and sure enough there was a big dollop of SRAM butter on top of the seal head. I cleaned it up and reinstalled it with just a smearing of grease around the seal. I haven't put it back on the bike yet but it does seem to be a huge improvement, if not totally fixed, from what I can tell off the bike.

Anybody else have this issue with a new Pike?


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Yeah it's pretty well documented in this thread that the dimple can get filled up with sram butter. Once it's mounted on the bike you might still feel when the quad ring on the air piston passes over the dimple and equalizes.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

I am having a hard time to pull out the charger damper from the fork.
Something is holding it at the bottom. I have removed the bottom screw. Is there anything else I am missing?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

jazzanova said:


> I am having a hard time to pull out the charger damper from the fork.
> Something is holding it at the bottom. I have removed the bottom screw. Is there anything else I am missing?


Try threading the bolt back into the bottom of the damper at least 3 turns and then give it a tap with a soft hammer to loosen the damper from the lower unit.


----------



## SimonNI (Jan 12, 2015)

Picking up some 2016 solo 150 Pikes tomorrow. Is there anything I should do/look at before I fit them?


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

SimonNI said:


> Picking up some 2016 solo 150 Pikes tomorrow. Is there anything I should do/look at before I fit them?


Check oil in lowers. 10ml 0w30 rockshox oil or equivalent in each leg.


----------



## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

JoshM said:


> Check oil in lowers. 10ml 0w30 rockshox oil or equivalent in each leg.


It isn't 5ml drive, 15 ndrive anymore?


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Back2MTB said:


> It isn't 5ml drive, 15 ndrive anymore?


Rockshox changed the levels. If you check out the newest service manual for the pike or the fluid level chart for front suspension you can see it's been changed to 10ml both sides. I still put 15ml in air spring side though.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

I have just installed an Avalanche open bath cartridge in my Pike.
I also equalized the air pressure (pulling on the fork and fully extending it while the air cap was removed)
After I was finished and added air, the fork didn't extend fully. Its about 1/3" in.
Anything I should try?


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

jazzanova said:


> I have just installed an Avalanche open bath cartridge in my Pike.
> I also equalized the air pressure (pulling on the fork and fully extending it while the air cap was removed)
> After I was finished and added air, the fork didn't extend fully. Its about 1/3" in.
> Anything I should try?


You might want to pull the lowers off again and make sure you don't have excessive grease in the air spring and around the pos/ neg dimple.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

manitou2200 said:


> You might want to pull the lowers off again and make sure you don't have excessive grease in the air spring and around the pos/ neg dimple.


That might be it...
another thing, I also swapped the air shaft. I installed it with the legs fully inside and might have created vacuum...
the mbr video on YouTube recommends doing it that way, but many comments suggest it's wrong and would cause the legs not fully extend...


----------



## Track_Master (Nov 30, 2013)

jazzanova,
you have any updates on this issue of yours?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Was having a gander at my pike last night, and being a lighter rider (72kg/158lbs) I started re-looking at my rebound. It's a 150mm 27.5 solo air, 1 token and currently 55psi (approx 25% sag). I'd never actually done a _'push down on the fork and see when it breaks traction from the ground'_ test until last night, (only ever by feel on trails). When I try the test, it's not bouncing off the ground even at 3 clicks out from fully fast. I didn't expect that. Could the rebound that fast actually be correct? Are lighter riders running rebound so fast (clicks-wise)?


----------



## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

me about 10 lbs. lighter than you, run full fast for trail work, & I don't think its fast enough for me. Its fine for moderate to hard hits, but not near fast enough for quick stutter stuff. I gotta really hang on with that......


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

For those of you that have done a charger damper rebuild. Any tips on getting the low speed compression adjuster seated properly?








I rebuilt the damper with the upgraded seal head and all was good, but when I installed the low speed compression adjuster it didn't fully seat. The small inner retaining ring seemed to go in so I reassembled the fork but now it's clear that it's not fully seated. Going to dive back in tonight but thought I'd ask.

The manuel suggests this is a critical step, and I spent extra time trying to get it seated and trying to be sure the inner retaining ring seated. A little frustating now.


----------



## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Structure said:


> For those of you that have done a charger damper rebuild. Any tips on getting the low speed compression adjuster seated properly?
> 
> View attachment 1070285
> 
> ...


If I remember correctly you need to have the low speed compression needle threaded all the way in clockwise, then turn it back 1/4 turn with Allen key. You then take the compression adjuster with your needle nose pliers and push it down on top of the needle into the damper, while turning clockwise. It should drop down and you will feel the detention ball click in. It should bottom out into the lsc needle Allen head.


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Thanks! I opened it up again without even taking the fork off the bike and with less than 30 seconds of wiggling it dropped all the way in and seated. 

If anyone else is still running an early Pike and hasn't changed the damper charger head, the full rebuild kit (Art's Cyclery) has a completely new head with a updated seal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

I'm about to do a lower leg service on my Pike. How often do you guys change the wiper seals? If they seem to be in good shape, should I just leave them alone?


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

zeppman said:


> I'm about to do a lower leg service on my Pike. How often do you guys change the wiper seals? If they seem to be in good shape, should I just leave them alone?


I replace when I do a complete service so once a year. I would just clean them and if they look good keep running them.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

zeppman said:


> I'm about to do a lower leg service on my Pike. How often do you guys change the wiper seals? If they seem to be in good shape, should I just leave them alone?


For the price of the seals I just replace them every lower leg service. I am very slack with my lower leg service interval though. If you were sticking to the factory service intervals then i wouldn't replace them every time. There are a few other variables to consider like where you ride and how much dirt is getting ingested. Do you clean and lube your stanchions after most rides? Do you store your bike in a position where the lower leg oil coats your seals and bushes? Just my 2 cents worth. Would also be worth putting low friction seals in if you haven't already.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Sorry if it's been posted already, no but...

Can you bleed, or top off, the damper without removing it? 

I'm told you can easily acces the bleeder port and and just cycle it to flush any bits of air.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Miker J said:


> Sorry if it's been posted already, no but...
> 
> Can you bleed, or top off, the damper without removing it?
> 
> I'm told you can easily acces the bleeder port and and just cycle it to flush any bits of air.


You can do it but it is easier to do with it out as you can see the bladder expanding/contracting. If you have a worn rebound shaft sealhead causing your problems then you will have some extra oil in your lowers you would need to get rid of anyway. Your not really going to save a huge amount of time.


----------



## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

So I did my lower leg service (cleaned and new oil) and as I was putting the bottom bolt on the damper side (after I had cleaned and added oil) I saw there was a small "washer" type piece inside the leg, just on the other side of the hole... Now this was probably pretty stupid, but I was in a hurry to finish things up as I had somewhere I needed to be, so I just replaced the bolt , and I think this washer kind of dropped into the side of the leg, (I had the fork at 90 degrees) and I'm assuming it is now sitting in the bottom of the leg. 

I looked at the manual exploded view this morning and found nothing in that picture that looks like it could of been this part. Nothing fell in the legs as I was doing the service. Any idea what this could be? The fork seems to work perfect and nothing is rattling around inside... should I still remove the lowers again and investigate or just ride? 

I'm not expecting much since I don't have a picture and can't really confirm what this is, but I figure I'd ask you experienced guys just in case it was something obvious. This is my 2nd time doing the service and I do feel like I have a pretty good grasp on what I'm doing.. Just strange to see that right at the end of the project. 

Thanks for helping.


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

zeppman said:


> So I did my lower leg service (cleaned and new oil) and as I was putting the bottom bolt on the damper side (after I had cleaned and added oil) I saw there was a small "washer" type piece inside the leg, just on the other side of the hole... Now this was probably pretty stupid, but I was in a hurry to finish things up as I had somewhere I needed to be, so I just replaced the bolt , and I think this washer kind of dropped into the side of the leg, (I had the fork at 90 degrees) and I'm assuming it is now sitting in the bottom of the leg.
> 
> I looked at the manual exploded view this morning and found nothing in that picture that looks like it could of been this part. Nothing fell in the legs as I was doing the service. Any idea what this could be? The fork seems to work perfect and nothing is rattling around inside... should I still remove the lowers again and investigate or just ride?
> 
> ...


Bottom out bumpers?


----------



## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Does the Pike have those? If so, how do you line them up to make sure the bolt goes through them when you replace the bolt (assuming that is what is supposed to happen?)


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

It does have them. Just small rubber washers to keep the stanchions from hitting the inside of the lowers. They will usually stick into place with the residual oil from the lowers or you can remove them and put them on the damper/spring rod and put them back together.


----------



## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

Ok, thanks bigkat. I guess I'll have to take everything apart again and take a look. 

Don't really want to deal with replacing the oil again... any idea how to do this withou draining and replacing the oil again


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

You could pull the lowers and not lose much oil. Just keep the fork level when you pull apart and plug the holes in the lowers when you flip it up to look inside. We're only talking 10ml so it's a small price to pay for piece of mind.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

zeppman said:


> So I did my lower leg service (cleaned and new oil) and as I was putting the bottom bolt on the damper side (after I had cleaned and added oil) I saw there was a small "washer" type piece inside the leg, just on the other side of the hole... Now this was probably pretty stupid, but I was in a hurry to finish things up as I had somewhere I needed to be, so I just replaced the bolt , and I think this washer kind of dropped into the side of the leg, (I had the fork at 90 degrees) and I'm assuming it is now sitting in the bottom of the leg.
> 
> I looked at the manual exploded view this morning and found nothing in that picture that looks like it could of been this part. Nothing fell in the legs as I was doing the service. Any idea what this could be? The fork seems to work perfect and nothing is rattling around inside... should I still remove the lowers again and investigate or just ride?
> 
> ...


Its actually left over piece of the crush washer and is normal. I don't think it will cause much of an issue in the lower leg but you should get it out.It is very thin and made of aluminium.


----------



## zeppman (May 11, 2007)

niva1989 said:


> Its actually left over piece of the crush washer and is normal. I don't think it will cause much of an issue in the lower leg but you should get it out.It is very thin and made of aluminium.


That's exactly what it looked like. I took a few pics I'll try to post later, but there were little rings that seemed like they shouldn't be there. I took them out and reassembled.


----------



## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

I had this on the air side the first time I did a service. It was by no means a perfect washer. It was circular very thin and a bit rough around the edges. 
I left it out and since have read maybe early in this thread or another that it's just a bit of alloy that seems to lift when everything's taken apart the first time. I may have a photo somewhere, I will look later.


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Ah if they are alloy then yea Def not the bottom out bumpers. I've never seen this happen though.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Rootsboy said:


> I had this on the air side the first time I did a service. It was by no means a perfect washer. It was circular very thin and a bit rough around the edges.
> I left it out and since have read maybe early in this thread or another that it's just a bit of alloy that seems to lift when everything's taken apart the first time. I may have a photo somewhere, I will look later.


It is part of the lower leg. It breaks off the casting when you knock the damper and air shafts out. If you look closely at the base of the lowers inside the bolt hole you will see where it has broken off.


----------



## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

just a few things to clarify for the pike solo...

1 - does the lsc adjust work for pedal position (middle) ? i think i've read somewhere that it only works in the open position (furthest anticlockwise)

2 - when in open position, i can't feel any difference on either extreme ends of the lsc... it could be just me though (subjective). anything i need to check to confirm functionality?

3 - i can still push the fork even at lockout, almost similar to pedal (middle). again, this could be just me (subjective). i believe this position isn't really a 'locked' lock out. but then just wondering why i can still push it in. anything i need to check?

4 - in suspension linggo:
-- open compression means softest to push? for a pike, this is furthest anticlockwise?
-- open rebound slowest to return? for a pike, this is towards the turtle?


----------



## mikericci (Oct 29, 2013)

spyghost said:


> just a few things to clarify for the pike solo...
> 
> 1 - does the lsc adjust work for pedal position (middle) ? i think i've read somewhere that it only works in the open position (furthest anticlockwise)
> 
> ...


1. LSC for open mode only

2. You should feel a difference. Turn clockwise for more low speed damping

3. It's not a lockout, just a firm compression setting

4. Open LSC: furthest anti-clockwise. 
Rebound: open = fastest = no damping (rabbit). Each click towards turtle increases rebound damping and slows the fork return


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

if you have correct air in your fork, then (2.) and (3.) suggest to me you have a problem.



spyghost said:


> just a few things to clarify for the pike solo...
> 
> 1 - does the lsc adjust work for pedal position (middle) ? i think i've read somewhere that it only works in the open position (furthest anticlockwise)
> 
> ...


----------



## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

lucifuge said:


> if you have correct air in your fork, then (2.) and (3.) suggest to me you have a problem.


yep, air is correct. what do i do to dtermine what problem there is and what to fix?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

spyghost said:


> yep, air is correct. what do i do to dtermine what problem there is and what to fix?


what the fork's history? when was it serviced last? as your mentioning LSC-possible issues that's a more comprehensive service possibly related to the damper side -> LSC needle/charger etc. Take it LBS would be my rec.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

with even air for only 30% sag I can hardly budge the fork in Trail mode. no chance locked!


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

for those who have replaced the 2016 seal-head in their 14/15 solo air Pike, did it make a noticeable difference?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

lucifuge said:


> for those who have replaced the 2016 seal-head in their 14/15 solo air Pike, did it make a noticeable difference?


You don't notice a difference with performance unless you your old seal head is worn out sucking air into the damper. New sealhead will last a lot longer too.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

niva1989 said:


> You don't notice a difference with performance unless you your old seal head is worn out sucking air into the damper. New sealhead will last a lot longer too.


Well I have been using the zip tie trick for a while, but obviously its a temporary and short solution. My pikes have just felt so harsh, I'm really hoping this fixes it otherwise I've no idea what to do. When I put air in the Pikes now for say 30% sag, the stanchion marker is stuck on 10%. So I'm always losing that first part of the travel. Only when its like 90psi is all travel exposed.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

lucifuge said:


> Well I have been using the zip tie trick for a while, but obviously its a temporary and short solution. My pikes have just felt so harsh, I'm really hoping this fixes it otherwise I've no idea what to do. When I put air in the Pikes now for say 30% sag, the stanchion marker is stuck on 10%. So I'm always losing that first part of the travel. Only when its like 90psi is all travel exposed.


Zip tie trick is mainly for the air side but I does sound like you have damper issues. Time for a full rebuild and sealhead upgrade. I think you might be in Australia. I live in Sydney and do all my own suspension repairs. Not sure if you have rebuilt suspension before but RS is the easiest.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

niva1989 said:


> Zip tie trick is mainly for the air side but I does sound like you have damper issues. Time for a full rebuild and sealhead upgrade. I think you might be in Australia. I live in Sydney and do all my own suspension repairs. Not sure if you have rebuilt suspension before but RS is the easiest.


Ok. Just saw that you are in Canberra. I get most of my parts and rebuild kits from MTB Direct.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

niva1989 said:


> Ok. Just saw that you are in Canberra. I get most of my parts and rebuild kits from MTB Direct.


yeah, sorry forgot to reply, yes Canberra. MTB direct and also Cyclinic. So I have a full pike rebuild kit on the way and aim to replace the air piston seal head.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

My fork was fully serviced 1 week ago and the charger was claimed to be fine. The only issue can be the head seal. It's been the same original head seal for almost 2 years


----------



## YoKev (Apr 26, 2012)

spyghost said:


> just a few things to clarify for the pike solo...
> 
> 1 - does the lsc adjust work for pedal position (middle) ? i think i've read somewhere that it only works in the open position (furthest anticlockwise)
> 
> ...


Couple things I'm taking from your post here..
Firstly, you didn't mention any problems while riding, only [it appears] playing with the forks standing still.
Secondly, if you don't trust yourself to be able to feel the difference between full open and full closed, then DON'T! If you have an LBS, take it to them and ask 'em to quickly check your forks for you.
Lastly, you wrote that you can 'still' push in the forks when the compression is 'locked' out. For starters, 'locked out' is a total misnomer, as forks don't totally lock out any more. They simply resist more in the initial part of the stroke, then will open up once a certain amount of force is applied so you don't do any damage to 'em.
In other words, you will be able to blow through the 'lock-out' setting if you try hard enough.
If I were you I would quit fuggin with the thing, and just ride the bike.
Unless you're totally out to lunch, you WILL notice a difference between the compression fully closed and fully open.
As I said before however, if you have a bike shop close to you, take 5mins and have 'em bounce your forks.


----------



## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

Don't feel bad about those last comments, they are very helpful. 
It took me a few years to start understanding my suspension set up. 
I only realised what spiking and bottomless feeling, meant after 4 months playing around with my Fast damper upgrade. 
You just need to get out and ride it, and sus it out little by little.
There is loads of great info on here, that helped me understand. 
But the understanding also comes from experience with the product, which is the fun part. 
You have a great product, it will only get better


----------



## JoFa73 (Dec 8, 2013)

Anybody knows what's the problem with running the new charger seal-head on older forks "26" version. It states that you have to buy the new tube for the damper or damage can occur. Is the new seal-head longer, protruding more into the tube and can cause the rebound circuit to contact it on full extension?


----------



## omnom (Mar 6, 2016)

Hey guys! I am currently using a Pike. I am a relatively light weight rider coming in at 110 pounds. I am currently thinking of changing the oil to a more lighter oil for the fork to better suit me. Do any of you have any recommendation of oil I should swap out the stock oil for?

Thank you.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I ordered some of the 20wt from here. Meant to be awesome.

WPL Oils - Premium Suspension Fluids ? Vorsprung Suspension


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

omnom said:


> Hey guys! I am currently using a Pike. I am a relatively light weight rider coming in at 110 pounds. I am currently thinking of changing the oil to a more lighter oil for the fork to better suit me. Do any of you have any recommendation of oil I should swap out the stock oil for?
> 
> Thank you.


You'll need a revalve. Oil won't make enough difference.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

omnom said:


> Hey guys! I am currently using a Pike. I am a relatively light weight rider coming in at 110 pounds. I am currently thinking of changing the oil to a more lighter oil for the fork to better suit me. Do any of you have any recommendation of oil I should swap out the stock oil for?
> 
> Thank you.


I do agree with Dougal. I have tried a few different oils but ended up changing back to standard 3wt. The Pike will never be a super plush fork unless you revalve. It will give you more support than a super plush style damper which I am now beginning to appreciate. I would suggest playing around with your setup a bit more before doing something drastic and expensive. I haven't met anyone yet in my riding circle that hasn't been able to get them setup right for them. You do need to find out what works best for you and not how everyone else is setup to a certain degree. Try either extreme with the tokens first and see what you think. 3or 4 tokens isn't for everyone. I have a Lyrik on my gravity bike and a Pike on my trail bike. I have them setup differently. That's the Magic of the Pike/Lyrik. The air side is customisable. You get nice consistent performance once you get it right. You may even just have your damper setup wrong for the trails you ride. Rebound is something people often get wrong and it can make the fork feel horrible if it is too fast on bigger hits and too slow on consecutive small bumps. Also try letting all of the air out and burping your lowers too as this can make a big difference to the feel by reseting your negative air chamber. I do this every so often and it works well. This is my 2 cents worth anyway as I have been down that road but am happy with my setup now.

I don't want to take anything away from revalving and aftermarket dampers as they have their place and there are some awesome ones out there, I just think people are too quick to go that way sometimes when they would be happy if they got their current setup right. I wish someone had given me some good advice when I got my first Pike.


----------



## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

Is the initial sticktion after a day of not being used normal for a pike? It's gone after 1 push by hand though, but after being parked for a day it happens again.

I got other forks before from RS and other makes but I didn't experience this...


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

spyghost said:


> Is the initial sticktion after a day of not being used normal for a pike? It's gone after 1 push by hand though, but after being parked for a day it happens again.
> 
> I got other forks before from RS and other makes but I didn't experience this...


Have you changed the oil bath in the lowers? Might have little oil in there too. Plus, I turn my bike upside down for approximately 30 seconds before I ride to lube up the foam rings and bushings as those things get dry from being upright and sitting around.


----------



## Track_Master (Nov 30, 2013)

How do you fix spiking without a revalve? lol.


----------



## omnom (Mar 6, 2016)

Hi guys!

I've actually messed around more with the PSI and tokens and the Pike is feeling better now. I was wondering if anyone else has this "problem" on their fork. Whenever I lift the front wheel off the floor, I notice that the fork has some "dead travel" and it drops little bit (1-2mm).

I thought it was air stuck in the neg chamber but from what I've done, that doesn't seem to solve the problem. I've read this method in the other thread on someone having this problem, maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I've pumped up the fork till 100 PSI, slowly compress 10mm, followed by allowing it to extend. I did this a few times. Then followed by dropping the PSI to 70 and doing it again.

I've also tried to release all the air and compress the fork totally, following by pumping it up again. Both method still has the "dead travel".

Is this normal?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

omnom said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I've actually messed around more with the PSI and tokens and the Pike is feeling better now. I was wondering if anyone else has this "problem" on their fork. Whenever I lift the front wheel off the floor, I notice that the fork has some "dead travel" and it drops little bit (1-2mm).
> 
> ...


There is a dimple that allows the negative air spring to equalize with the positive, it is at the top of travel. If you ever feel the fork is sinking down, pull it apart to the top of travel and you'll feel it equalize. You'll notice this mostly when you let air out of the air-chamber, as it will pack down, but again, pulling it apart quickly equalizes it. This is why the top of travel is like this.


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

*the trade off*

I am on Pike RCT3 solo 160/26" since ~Nov. 2014.
My conclusion after playing with all the settings and doing full service myself is: there is a clear trade off

1. either you have a 'fully extended" fork, but then it only works good for big hits and feels harsh on small fast chatter, - and your hands feel that. 
This 'setup' is achieved by fully extending the lower legs while assembling it and putting the screws in),

OR

2. you loose ~0.5-1cm of travel (the fork seats ~1cm 'in' even unweighted), but you gain in small bump/ fast chatter sensitivity. You can compensate for the extra dive with LSC. 
This 'setup' is achieved by assembling the fork compressed.

I personally don't like the 'strip burping' idea, so I am not doing it. I actually prefer the 2nd setup and its compromise, even though in a more aggressive terrain with big drops etc. it feels less composed.

This is my experience and view - hopefully, it will help some new 'Pikers' to understand this fork.

Any thoughts are welcome.
Paul


----------



## thejimrose (Aug 13, 2008)

anyone running a pike wout wither fast or andreani internals is doing it wrong. fork sucks stock. harsh, choppy, etc. ive tried both, both excellent, fast is a hair more controlled. im 5'10 200 on a 14 nomad carbon, pretty aggressive.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

thejimrose said:


> anyone running a pike wout wither fast or andreani internals is doing it wrong. fork sucks stock. harsh, choppy, etc. ive tried both, both excellent, fast is a hair more controlled. im 5'10 200 on a 14 nomad carbon, pretty aggressive.


That is true, but for the majority of riders they want something that works out of the box rather than dropping in another shim stack.


----------



## thejimrose (Aug 13, 2008)

? not sure what you mean. both andreani and fast are plug and play. i think you just change out the internals on 1 side of the fork. i was swapping the cartridges or whatever between rides. i'm no suspension guru, been working w/ andrew at brennan autosport (does a lot of bike stuff and afaik is a dealer for both fast and andreani). 

fork is transformed. yea they both add more adjustability but i'm a set it and forget it type. bottom line the fork is MUCH more plush and more controlled. i run ohlins on my car and motorcycle and it's much more like that feeling than the previous 'rattle my goddamn teeth out of my head' feel the stock pike has.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

The charger damper is far from perfect but adjusted correctly it can perform well for the majority of people. There is definitely a place for the aftermarket dampers and i am sure they perform better than the charger but I just think it is worth spending a bit more time on your stock setup before dumping a large amount of cash. 

To begin with you need to make sure you have the upgraded rebound shaft sealhead and the low friction seals fitted. I have always done my own fork rebuilds but I have learnt a fair bit more about suspension tuning since running the Pike and now Lyrik. I really think once you have ironed out the bugs it is a great fork that has to try and cater for the majority of the market. It isn't going to please everyone. I used to just love a super plush fork with a linear spring curve but have learnt to appreciate a more progressive feel and the Pike does a great job at providing adjustability to the average Joe. 

It does take some time to get the fork setup how you like it and I mainly now just play around with the rebound damping for different trails. It does tend to stiffen up after 7 or 8 rides but a quick reset of the negative air chamber fixes that right up. I have even noticed this on the new Lyrik. 

I live in Australia and a mod like Fast or Adreani isn't as readily available and is almost as expensive as a new fork if you decide to go down that path which is a good incentive to try and get the stock setup working better.


----------



## DanLees (Sep 2, 2004)

My 2015 Pikes developed an Oil leak on the damper side coming from the rebound adjuster when I was in Tignes... I chose to leave it alone and deal with it when I got back as the forks were still working normally. 

Back in the UK, so last night it was time to give the forks some attention.

Dropped the lowers off and there was still some oil in the damper side and the CSU looks nice undamaged - ace. That's a relief as they were getting some hammer in Tignes.

Did the 50 hour lowers service (followed the manual to the letter) including new crush washers and torqued the bottom bolts up to 7.3NM.

Now once the forks were put back on the bike and adjusted, I took it for a spin.

Forks felt nice but there is still a little bit of oil coming out of the bottom of the damper side.

2 things I noticed when doing the service.

1) The airspring side crush washer is in a retainer on the footbolt, however the damper side crush washer sits in groove on the with no retainer fitted from the factory, the crush washer sits almost entirely in this groove, with very little material left to deform upon tightening. Worth noting that there is no mention of the retainers in the manual and spares are sold in pairs.

Has anyone fitted their crush washer on the damper side with retainer?

2) The footbolt on the damper side is hollow (unsurprising, seeing as how else would you adjust the rebound), so if you manage to get oil in the threads of damper shaft (entirely possibly even if you angle the syringe and forks), it will come through the foot bolt and into the rebound adjuster, appearing to be a leaking crush washer. This could have happened I guess.

I think I'm going to ride them and keep an eye on them.

Is there anyway to tell if it's the damper thats leaking oil rather than the crush washer? Aside from the hopefully obvious degradation in damping performance?


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

when you drop lowers, moves damper shaft pretty fast in normal position and upside down. If its damper leakage you will here air inside the damper.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

DanLees said:


> My 2015 Pikes developed an Oil leak on the damper side coming from the rebound adjuster when I was in Tignes... I chose to leave it alone and deal with it when I got back as the forks were still working normally.
> 
> Back in the UK, so last night it was time to give the forks some attention.
> 
> ...


Is there any chance you accidentally injected oil into the rod, ie maybe more in a horizontal positional so it didn't all go into the lowers? that might explain it


----------



## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Might be interesting:

AWK Dual Air Chamber for 35mm Pike/Boxxer | Ridemonkey Forums

Basically it's an implementation of the Manious new IRT system for Pike.


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

My Pike blew the lower leg seal on the air side and all the air leaked out. I serviced it today replacing all the seals in the air spring (scraper, seal head, etc) and same thing--lower seal blew off and all the air leaked out. WTF?? I don't have any scratches on the air shaft and I even replaced the air valve. 
I last serviced it this past January, and it had been doing well but lately it started feeling super stiff on not going through the full travel like if I had aired it up way too much.


----------



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

arnea said:


> Might be interesting:
> 
> AWK Dual Air Chamber for 35mm Pike/Boxxer | Ridemonkey Forums
> 
> Basically it's an implementation of the Manious new IRT system for Pike.


Contacted him and unfortunately he cannot/will not ship to North America.

But he does have a reseller, http://www.doctor-racing.com/index.php/productos/horquillas/kit-awk-boxxer-124-detail


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

My 2014 Pike had a full service, air piston cleaned up off excess gunk, 2016 seal head. It performed well for about 2 weeks and the same issues came back. Needless to say I'm over it. Life is too short. Sold it and bought a Lyrik, so far, amazing. I also like the tune-ability of the rebound. I'm opting for a soft-rebound tune this week, keen to see how it goes.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

matadorCE said:


> My Pike blew the lower leg seal on the air side and all the air leaked out. I serviced it today replacing all the seals in the air spring (scraper, seal head, etc) and same thing--lower seal blew off and all the air leaked out. WTF?? I don't have any scratches on the air shaft and I even replaced the air valve.
> I last serviced it this past January, and it had been doing well but lately it started feeling super stiff on not going through the full travel like if I had aired it up way too much.


Are you loosing air out of the main chamber? I would imagine you are to blow the main seals out of the lowers. We're the seals a tight fit when you knocked them in?

Maybe you just have a leak from the main sealhead and your negative chamber isn't holding pressure. You would only loose air near the top of the stroke when the equalising port is exposed. I'd do some tests with the lowers off and use soapy water to find where your leaking. Just put a small amount of air pressure in and actuate by hand. I think you will find you have air leaking out of the seals near the end of your staunchions.


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

niva1989 said:


> Are you loosing air out of the main chamber? I would imagine you are to blow the main seals out of the lowers. We're the seals a tight fit when you knocked them in?
> 
> Maybe you just have a leak from the main sealhead and your negative chamber isn't holding pressure. You would only loose air near the top of the stroke when the equalising port is exposed. I'd do some tests with the lowers off and use soapy water to find where your leaking. Just put a small amount of air pressure in and actuate by hand. I think you will find you have air leaking out of the seals near the end of your staunchions.


It won't hold any air. With the lowers on, I can see the air bubbling up through the foam rings. With lowers off, I can hear the air escaping out the bottom. This doesn't look like a complicated system, and all the seals are new. I'm just baffled that I did four races on this fork this year and it had given me zero problems until now.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

matadorCE said:


> It won't hold any air. With the lowers on, I can see the air bubbling up through the foam rings. With lowers off, I can hear the air escaping out the bottom. This doesn't look like a complicated system, and all the seals are new. I'm just baffled that I did four races on this fork this year and it had given me zero problems until now.


I can't explain how it happened. I believe the negative air chamber port is pressed into the end of the staunchion. Maybe there is an issue with this??? I don't even have a spare fork at the moment to pull apart to look at for you.


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

niva1989 said:


> I can't explain how it happened. I believe the negative air chamber port is pressed into the end of the staunchion. Maybe there is an issue with this??? I don't even have a spare fork at the moment to pull apart to look at for you.


I pulled the air spring and cleaned the neg air port (it wasn't packed with grease) and tried a slightly bigger o-ring on the bottom of the seal head. The fork held air again, it didn't feel rock hard, and the lower leg seal didn't immediately pop off. Too early to tell if that was the issue IMO. I ordered all new parts anyway so I'll wait to out those on before actually riding the fork, but at least it gives me some good troubleshooting info.


----------



## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

*re-assembly help*

So on my ride yesterday, the top cap and attached bits actually popped off the top of my pike. Maybe I didn't get the c-clip seated perfectly when I did the charger damper bleed a few months ago? Also possible that the top cap took a hit from a crash earlier in the ride. Anyway, regardless of the cause, I'm wondering what the minimum I have to do to get it back together is. Trying to avoid the entire rebuild again, I'm sort of slow and was just happy I got through it last time.

Do I have to drop the lowers and do all the steps to re-assemble, or should I be able to fill with oil and just re-assemble the top part from here? ( and/or do i need to bleed the charger damper, and if so can i do it "as is" without dropping the lowers and pulling out the shaft? )

Here are the parts that popped out while riding:








Thanks in advance

In an attempt to answer my own question, I'm thinking I need to take the fork apart and take the damper out so I can fill oil here:









I definitely lost a bunch of oil, I don't think you can feed in that volume as part of the bleed step? I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out if it helps.

Ok, last edit, I promise. If I do rebuild properly, what are the thoughts on having to replace the seal head _again_. I did the full damper service in February, looks like only about 60 hours of riding from then till now. The manual states "Failure to replace the seal head may result in poor fork performance". Is that just talking about the "upgraded" seal head, or is there some reason why taking it apart would ruin the seal.

thanks again, again.


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

The circ-clip is wedged in there pretty good, so either it wasn't in its groove from the last service and/or it got dislodged from a crash like you said. I bet you lost most if not all of your oil in the damper. You can fill it up and bleed it without taking the entire thing out of the uppers, but i'd take the lowers off since it makes bleeding the damper a lot easier and it's not that hard. As far as the seal head, I'd replace it and not have to worry about it for another good while but it's up to you.


----------



## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

matadorCE said:


> The circ-clip is wedged in there pretty good, so either it wasn't in its groove from the last service and/or it got dislodged from a crash like you said. I bet you lost most if not all of your oil in the damper. You can fill it up and bleed it without taking the entire thing out of the uppers, but i'd take the lowers off since it makes bleeding the damper a lot easier and it's not that hard. As far as the seal head, I'd replace it and not have to worry about it for another good while but it's up to you.


Sounds reasonable. I might try to fudge it while I wait for a new rebuild kit with the seal head to get here, then do it properly. I know dropping the lowers isn't that hard, but its still extra work, and I'm lazy!! Thanks for the input though.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

You dont have to drop the lowers. Just take out the damper. Rebuild and put it back


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

slcpunk said:


> So on my ride yesterday, the top cap and attached bits actually popped off the top of my pike. Maybe I didn't get the c-clip seated perfectly when I did the charger damper bleed a few months ago? Also possible that the top cap took a hit from a crash earlier in the ride. Anyway, regardless of the cause, I'm wondering what the minimum I have to do to get it back together is. Trying to avoid the entire rebuild again, I'm sort of slow and was just happy I got through it last time.
> 
> Do I have to drop the lowers and do all the steps to re-assemble, or should I be able to fill with oil and just re-assemble the top part from here? ( and/or do i need to bleed the charger damper, and if so can i do it "as is" without dropping the lowers and pulling out the shaft? )
> 
> ...


If you were careful then the sealhead should be fine. They are only talking about the upgraded sealhead.

Something definitely went wrong on your last rebuild. I'd take a closer look and make sure nothing is broken if you Think that the assembly was good. It has been a little while since I had one apart but I didn't think you could get it all together unless the circlip at the top was seated properly but I would say that is the most likely cause.

I recommend you start the damper assembly from scratch as its the only way to be sure. Just double check the circlips are seated properly and nothing is damaged.


----------



## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

niva1989 said:


> If you were careful then the sealhead should be fine. They are only talking about the upgraded sealhead.
> 
> Something definitely went wrong on your last rebuild. I'd take a closer look and make sure nothing is broken if you Think that the assembly was good. It has been a little while since I had one apart but I didn't think you could get it all together unless the circlip at the top was seated properly but I would say that is the most likely cause.
> 
> I recommend you start the damper assembly from scratch as its the only way to be sure. Just double check the circlips are seated properly and nothing is damaged.


Well so far I tried to bleed with the damper in place. Not sure that's going to work ... even though the bubbles went away, the lockout definitely didn't hold when testing.

Guess I'll take the time to do it right and make sure.

thanks for all the advise.


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

slcpunk said:


> Well so far I tried to bleed with the damper in place. Not sure that's going to work ... even though the bubbles went away, the lockout definitely didn't hold when testing.
> 
> Guess I'll take the time to do it right and make sure.
> 
> thanks for all the advise.


You want the damper out of the fork to bleed it. Otherwise you cannot fully stroke it.


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Plus it lets you see if you have issues with the bladder or anything else leaking.


----------



## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Yup. Ended up pulling the damper out, without actually dropping the lowers. This proved to be the best approach. ( you could argue if doing that much should drop lowers and clean internals etc ... but again, I was being lazy and just wanted quickest solution to damper problem )

I couldn't find anything wrong, so in the end, pretty sure the c-clip/snap ring just failed, maybe as a result of the crash, but also likely not seated perfectly. ( The bigger outer c-clip/snap ring )

Putting everything back together made me want to reiterate: GET GOOD SNAP RING PLIERS. Don't get the kind like I got ( Home Depot, $19.99 ) that can do internal + external. There is play in them, and for the smaller ring, you simply can't squeeze it tight enough which it makes really difficult to seat properly. I mean I made it work, but a good pair of pliers would make it a snap.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone that commented. Valuable info here!


----------



## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

hey,
not sure it's still relevant to you,but to those who had problem of popped out seals.
I had the same problem w mine. It were Skf seals. it turns out the 2 metal springs (the inner and outer) are of different diameter on skf while same on RS ones. I first did not notice it and switched rhe 2 springs positions and had the seals blew just from pumping. but once I put the 2 in correct places it's stopped.


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

In my case it's a leak in the air spring that's pressurizing the lowers and that's why my seal is popping out.


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

So a resolution for my problem, I replaced everything on the air side (rod, piston, seals, etc) and the fork is back to normal, so I hope it will stay that way. Since air was leaking into the lowers, I'm thinking it had to be a seal/o-ring issue but everything looked fine when I was swapping parts out. Whatever works as long as I don't lose all air pressure while out on the trail again.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I did similar, worked well for a week and reverted to same issue. Hope you have better luck.


matadorCE said:


> So a resolution for my problem, I replaced everything on the air side (rod, piston, seals, etc) and the fork is back to normal, so I hope it will stay that way. Since air was leaking into the lowers, I'm thinking it had to be a seal/o-ring issue but everything looked fine when I was swapping parts out. Whatever works as long as I don't lose all air pressure while out on the trail again.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I'm trying to change the travel on a 2014 Pike RCT3 SoloAir. I'm stuck on the part where I have to remove the circlip holding the lower seal head in. How exactly are you suppose to push the seal head in to get enough space for the circlip to clear the nub in the seal head? I tried pushing it under the circlip with a flat head, but it's taking an odd amount of near-excessive force without budging.

Another odd issue is that my air shaft doesn't stay pushed in. I have the entire top cap removed, able to look in at the seal head and cover it with my palm to feel suction if I push in the shaft and cover it... I'm confused as to what is making the shaft top out, as if something's pulling it back down from within. Anyone know what's up? Did the top out bumper get welded and become super stretchy? Should I provide video? Just don't want to dmg anything resorting to brutish force.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Man, it took me and mate to get that sucker back together and some time too. So much force coming back. Definitely need a appropriate circlip pliers to make it easier.


Varaxis said:


> I'm trying to change the travel on a 2014 Pike RCT3 SoloAir. I'm stuck on the part where I have to remove the circlip holding the lower seal head in. How exactly are you suppose to push the seal head in to get enough space for the circlip to clear the nub in the seal head? I tried pushing it under the circlip with a flat head, but it's taking an odd amount of excessive force without budging.
> 
> Another odd issue is that my air shaft doesn't stay pushed in. I have the entire top cap removed, able to look in at the seal head and cover it with my palm to feel suction if I push in the shaft and cover it... I'm confused as to what is making the shaft top out, as if something's pulling it back down from within. Anyone know what's up? Did the top out bumper get welded and become super stretchy? Should I provide video?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Varaxis said:


> I'm trying to change the travel on a 2014 Pike RCT3 SoloAir. I'm stuck on the part where I have to remove the circlip holding the lower seal head in. How exactly are you suppose to push the seal head in to get enough space for the circlip to clear the nub in the seal head? I tried pushing it under the circlip with a flat head, but it's taking an odd amount of near-excessive force without budging.
> 
> Another odd issue is that my air shaft doesn't stay pushed in. I have the entire top cap removed, able to look in at the seal head and cover it with my palm to feel suction if I push in the shaft and cover it... I'm confused as to what is making the shaft top out, as if something's pulling it back down from within. Anyone know what's up? Did the top out bumper get welded and become super stretchy? Should I provide video? Just don't want to dmg anything resorting to brutish force.


It's the vacuum in the negative air Spring chamber causing the shaft to spring back. 
Don't think I have ever had trouble getting that one out before. I have always used bent 90deg circlip pliers that you can push down firmly on with one hand while squeezing with the other.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Varaxis said:


> I'm trying to change the travel on a 2014 Pike RCT3 SoloAir. I'm stuck on the part where I have to remove the circlip holding the lower seal head in. How exactly are you suppose to push the seal head in to get enough space for the circlip to clear the nub in the seal head? I tried pushing it under the circlip with a flat head, but it's taking an odd amount of near-excessive force without budging.
> 
> Another odd issue is that my air shaft doesn't stay pushed in. I have the entire top cap removed, able to look in at the seal head and cover it with my palm to feel suction if I push in the shaft and cover it... I'm confused as to what is making the shaft top out, as if something's pulling it back down from within. Anyone know what's up? Did the top out bumper get welded and become super stretchy? Should I provide video? Just don't want to dmg anything resorting to brutish force.


It shouldn't be that hard. Can you take out the air spring assembly and take some photos of it and the air chamber with top cap removed?
You do need to push the circlip down into its groove with a screw driver once it's compressed but the force required to do this is minimal.


----------



## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Do you have the service manual open to make sure you have the assembly correct?


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

False alarm. Thanks for the explanation about the vacuum in neg chamber. Jaw dropped for a moment when I read "Lyrik/Yari 120" on the end of the air shaft after installing the new one, rechecking the bag it came in and then finally looking on the other side to see Pike 27-130... :lol:

Just simply needed the right technique with the flathead, to push it in, and also rotate the sealhead at the same time, which meant just sort of jabbing it at the the lip. I swear I did this procedure once before on my E29's Pike as part of service last year, but I guess I forgot, or it just came out with without needing to fiddle with the sealhead. Next time I let the air out, I'll only let the air out of the positive side, without trying to cycle the piston past the indent to equalize the neg chamber. Not sure why I did that this time...

This was one of the parts I needed to finish to get my 27.5 frame built up, hopefully ready for riding by Thurs. Gotta finish hunting down some tokens...


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

So I'm changing the travel of my Pike, and there was air trapped between the seal head and the top out bumper so it made the shaft "suck up". I don't remember this happening before but it's been a while since I had it all apart.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

matadorCE said:


> So I'm changing the travel of my Pike, and there was air trapped between the seal head and the top out bumper so it made the shaft "suck up". I don't remember this happening before but it's been a while since I had it all apart.


You need to extend it to the point where the pressure equalises between the positive and neg chambers. Put the bolt back in to make it easier to pull on the shaft.


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

niva1989 said:


> You need to extend it to the point where the pressure equalises between the positive and neg chambers. Put the bolt back in to make it easier to pull on the shaft.


Thanks for the input. I ended up pushing the air shaft out the bottom and that took care of the trapped air lol.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

matadorCE said:


> Thanks for the input. I ended up pushing the air shaft out the bottom and that took care of the trapped air lol.


Yeah if you haven't done it for a while you can forget. I just changed my mates Lyrik to 180mm. It was pretty easy and it was due for a lower leg service anyway. You have to be careful how you assemble the shaft and main sealhead into the staunchion.
Think I'll change mine too as he says he noticed the difference. I was skeptical about how much difference 10mm would make.


----------



## rhysjenz (Mar 3, 2012)

Would I be able to use 0WT-30 oil instead of the 3WT oil that is specified for re-filling the cartridge tube?

By the cartridge tube (what the manual calls it), I mean the tube on the damper side that the rebound assembly screws into). Not the charger damper itself.

I was taking the rebound assembly apart so I could re-shim it with the soft tune, as I'm a light rider (~63 kg). Is it possible that I'll be okay (or even better off) using the lighter oil?

Sorry if this question has been answered elsewhere in the thread, but I couldn't find anything via searching.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

rhysjenz said:


> Would I be able to use 0WT-30 oil instead of the 3WT oil that is specified for re-filling the cartridge tube?
> 
> By the cartridge tube (what the manual calls it), I mean the tube on the damper side that the rebound assembly screws into). Not the charger damper itself.
> 
> ...


It's all the same chamber so best to use the 3wt. You will need to bleed the charger if you drained the oil. Keep the 0w-30 for the lowers. I'd wait and do it properly. Better than having to strip it again. I guess it depends on how desperate you are to get the bike going again........

If you turned the cartridge upside down and only lost a very small amount it might be ok to top up with 0w-30 but I wouldn't know if it will react with the 3wt and have adverse effects like foaming. I'm a stickler for following the rules so my advice is to still use the right oil.


----------



## bhmax (Dec 7, 2010)

rhysjenz said:


> Would I be able to use 0WT-30 oil instead of the 3WT oil that is specified for re-filling the cartridge tube?
> 
> By the cartridge tube (what the manual calls it), I mean the tube on the damper side that the rebound assembly screws into). Not the charger damper itself.
> 
> ...


I'm about to rebuild my Pike soon. I'll also be changing to the light rebound tune as I've been running only 3 clicks from full soft. I've been running Redline Extralight 2.5wt oil for the damper since not long after I got the fork as I thought it was slightly harsh. I'm 150lbs/68kg. It has worked well for me. As far as the lowers bath oil, I've just used whatever weight Mobil 1 motor oil I've had sitting around.


----------



## TomMtb (Jan 7, 2015)

rhysjenz said:


> Would I be able to use 0WT-30 oil instead of the 3WT oil that is specified for re-filling the cartridge tube?
> 
> By the cartridge tube (what the manual calls it), I mean the tube on the damper side that the rebound assembly screws into). Not the charger damper itself.
> 
> ...


Do not use engine oil (which is what 0w-30 is) for damping purposes. Completely different types of oil with drastic changes in viscosity with temp change. Get the 3wt which is actually maxima 3wt.


----------



## rhysjenz (Mar 3, 2012)

niva1989 said:


> It's all the same chamber so best to use the 3wt. You will need to bleed the charger if you drained the oil. Keep the 0w-30 for the lowers. I'd wait and do it properly. Better than having to strip it again. I guess it depends on how desperate you are to get the bike going again........
> 
> If you turned the cartridge upside down and only lost a very small amount it might be ok to top up with 0w-30 but I wouldn't know if it will react with the 3wt and have adverse effects like foaming. I'm a stickler for following the rules so my advice is to still use the right oil.


Thanks for the info! Revisited the manual/diagram, and yeah that makes sense. Need to get a hold of the charger bleed kit now!

I like the idea of using 2.5WT oil like bhmax said, but seeing the bleed kit comes with 3WT I'll probably just use that.

Won't be riding for at least a week anyway, as there's torrential rain here


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

rhysjenz said:


> Thanks for the info! Revisited the manual/diagram, and yeah that makes sense. Need to get a hold of the charger bleed kit now!
> 
> I like the idea of using 2.5WT oil like bhmax said, but seeing the bleed kit comes with 3WT I'll probably just use that.
> 
> Won't be riding for at least a week anyway, as there's torrential rain here


I used to run 2.5wt in my Pike damper but since upgrading to a Lyrik I haven't felt the need to change as they are a bit more plush anyway. I'm in Sydney and I think we sent the rain over to you that we had last week


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rhysjenz said:


> Thanks for the info! Revisited the manual/diagram, and yeah that makes sense. Need to get a hold of the charger bleed kit now!
> 
> I like the idea of using 2.5WT oil like bhmax said, but seeing the bleed kit comes with 3WT I'll probably just use that.
> 
> Won't be riding for at least a week anyway, as there's torrential rain here


2.5wt and 3wt are usually the same viscosity. It's just different manufacturers using different numbers.

These dampers try to damp based on pressure. Not viscosity. So viscosity changes don't do much until you have a big change.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


----------



## rhysjenz (Mar 3, 2012)

Dougal said:


> 2.5wt and 3wt are usually the same viscosity. It's just different manufacturers using different numbers.
> 
> These dampers try to damp based on pressure. Not viscosity. So viscosity changes don't do much until you have a big change.
> 
> Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


Interesting to know...

Also Dougal, you don't happen to have any charger bleed kits, and/or Pike 200 Hr service kits in stock?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rhysjenz said:


> Interesting to know...
> 
> Also Dougal, you don't happen to have any charger bleed kits, and/or Pike 200 Hr service kits in stock?


For bleeding we have the charger bleed fittings and our own syringes and oil ready to go. We don't usually do the whole SRAM bleed kit, but no problem to get them in.

We keep everything service related in stock for those. Except individual foam rings right now. Apparently NZ is completely out of 35mm RS foam rings. The service kits do have the foam rings in them though.

But in stock doesn't always mean on the website. We're struggling to get everything up online. If you can't find what you're looking for then call or email.


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

Hello Pike experts. 
i have RCT3 130mm i feel it's not as plush as i like it to be
i'm 200lbs, 130mm fork, 
i have 75psi and i use almost all the travel minus like 3mm.. 
the bike came with 2 tokens, so i dont know if there are any tokens installed in the fork yet.. maybe ill check today... 
u guys think i can add tokens, drop the pressure and this will help make it more plush ? 
should i mess with LSC?? i think i have it on LOWEST.. now.


----------



## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm about the same size as you (~200lb with gear) and I run 68-70PSI with 3 tokens. I use no LSC or maybe 1-2 clicks, 30% sag and really like the initial plush feeling and it ramps up very fast at the end of the travel to prevent bottoming


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

Back2MTB said:


> I'm about the same size as you (~200lb with gear) and I run 68-70PSI with 3 tokens. I use no LSC or maybe 1-2 clicks, 30% sag and really like the initial plush feeling and it ramps up very fast at the end of the travel to prevent bottoming


Thank u, i will try that today. i need to really see how many tokens in there.. i never opened it up. what do u have for rebound? 
i never even checked my sag, i only checked rear sag.. u do this sitting straight on the saddle? or standing on the pedals?


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

so adding LSC will make it more firm correct ? turning it to the plus side. so basically i want zero LSC


----------



## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

I run medium+/fast rebound, setting sag explained:






more LSC should make it slightly more firm, yes.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Ive got a 29er boost pike and running + tires. My bike came with 3 tokens installed for 140mm. Bike was harsh and could not get it to bottom out. Tried low psi, super fast rebound and it just didnt feel right. Ended up with 1 token, about 7 clicks for rebound, about 5 clicks for lsc, and approx 75psi. Im about 190lbs without pack and gear have a a lot of rocks in my area.


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

stumpynerd said:


> Ive got a 29er boost pike and running + tires. My bike came with 3 tokens installed for 140mm. Bike was harsh and could not get it to bottom out. Tried low psi, super fast rebound and it just didnt feel right. Ended up with 1 token, about 7 clicks for rebound, about 5 clicks for lsc, and approx 75psi. Im about 190lbs without pack and gear have a a lot of rocks in my area.


that's like doing the oppposite of what i was thinking to do to help me make it plusher. . haha this topic will drive me crazy

I was planning to go with 3 tokens and lower the PSI to 65. and see if that makes it more plush.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

xzatx said:


> that's like doing the oppposite of what i was thinking to do to help me make it plusher. . haha this topic will drive me crazy
> 
> I was planning to go with 3 tokens and lower the PSI to 65. and see if that makes it more plush.


I found running more tokens made it more harsh with less psi it rode too low in its travel trying to tune out the harshness. Best thing to do is experiment on the trail. If your not doing big drops why even bother having that many tokens in there. With 1 token I bottom out maybe once or twice on a ride.


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

stumpynerd said:


> I found running more tokens made it more harsh with less psi it rode too low in its travel trying to tune out the harshness. Best thing to do is experiment on the trail. If your not doing big drops why even bother having that many tokens in there. With 1 token I bottom out maybe once or twice on a ride.


well im gona open up my fork and see how many i have in it then decide what to do.
i never do drops. 
i'm trying to just smoothen fast bumpy descents .. maybe less rebound will fix my issue...


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

stumpynerd said:


> I found running more tokens made it more harsh with less psi it rode too low in its travel trying to tune out the harshness. Best thing to do is experiment on the trail. If your not doing big drops why even bother having that many tokens in there. With 1 token I bottom out maybe once or twice on a ride.


THIS.

You'd be surprised what a linear Pike can be like with the correct amount of air for you. Too many tokens will start to screw up the rebound too.


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

Ok so what's the general consensus here, 
MORE TOKENS + LESS AIR PRESSURE MAKES IT LESS HARSH, MORE PLUSH, LESS FIRM
OR 
LESS TOKENS + MORE AIR MAKES IT MORE PLUSH, LESS FIRM??


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

pikes stock air spring is tricky: stiff initial, soft midstroke. Luftkappe makes it linear and cure all harshness. If you are below 165lbf, going softer on compression stack could also help. Im 160-165lbs got luftkappe, 80psi, soft compression tune and no hands soreness. Luftkappe is worth its price.


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

whats Luftkappe


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

i looked it up... is it an easy upgrade to isntall? $60 is not that bad


----------



## zooey (Oct 31, 2016)

xzatx said:


> Ok so what's the general consensus here,
> MORE TOKENS + LESS AIR PRESSURE MAKES IT LESS HARSH, MORE PLUSH, LESS FIRM
> OR
> LESS TOKENS + MORE AIR MAKES IT MORE PLUSH, LESS FIRM??


Do you want consensus or scientific evidience-backed answers? Since this is a subject that can be tackled without resorting to any belief in some deity making things so, I'll try to sum it up:

More tokens with less air creates more plushness in the mid stroke, with a harsh end stroke. If you run high sag, 25% or higher on a fork, the fork will ride in this plush pocket in the mid stroke, with firm support from the endstroke to keep you from diving excessively. The firm end stoke provides extra pop off of jump lips and berms, and unfortunately extra pop out of g-outs and unexpected deep compressions (ex. wheel falling into wedges/gaps/holes between obstacles). If you run more pressure with it, you might find that the suspension feels wallowy, and you're not getting the firm mid support out of the air spring that you want, and are finding it difficult to utilize full travel.

Less tokens with more air creates more predictability, responsiveness, efficiency, and direct ride feel, especially run with lower sag around 15-20%. Not as soft and compliant feeling, but doesn't blow through travel. If you run less pressure with it, to gain compliance, you won't be happy with how it won't have any support deep in travel.

This is just speaking of air springs. You've gotta choose accordingly to match your preferences, then also tune the damping to also suit the air spring. You'd want higher HSR and less HSC & less LSR with more tokens, and you'll never be settled with how much LSC you'd like. Damping tuning is far more straight forward with less tokens.

There's no general tune that suits a vast majority of riders. A tune that is developed based on a specific discipline on specific terrain, with a handful of test riders, may not be suitable for a majority of riders, even those who ride that specific discipline and terrain. The biggest factor is rider preference. A rider can say a fork tune sucks since it feels like a Fox fork they hated in the past, and that's a valid reason for retune, despite the same tune being awesome for another rider. One person's goal might be to isolate a wide range of troublesome bump frequencies that hurt their performance/result/time on random Strava segments in their trail system. Another person's goal might be to prevent excessive feedback from reaching their hands on bike park runs, with extra pop off the jumps and berms being a pleasant bonus. Another one might just want to eek out maximum traction in the corners, and rely more on their the arm and leg muscles to provide suspension, opting for super stable ride height and geometry preservation. People demand different things from their suspension to improve their riding experience, and you unfortunately have to pick and choose what kind of compromise you are willing to settle with, and it doesn't help to be indecisive, not knowing precisely what you want.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

xzatx said:


> so adding LSC will make it more firm correct ? turning it to the plus side. so basically i want zero LSC


I run 4-5clicks of LSC to help with brake dive. The bigger hits blow past the LSC anyway.


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

niva1989 said:


> I run 4-5clicks of LSC to help with brake dive. The bigger hits blow past the LSC anyway.


so for
LSC turn it counter clock wise all the wise, then 3 clicks clockwise? does counterclockwise zero it?


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

zooey said:


> Do you want consensus or scientific evidience-backed answers? Since this is a subject that can be tackled without resorting to any belief in some deity making things so, I'll try to sum it up:
> 
> More tokens with less air creates more plushness in the mid stroke, with a harsh end stroke. If you run high sag, 25% or higher on a fork, the fork will ride in this plush pocket in the mid stroke, with firm support from the endstroke to keep you from diving excessively. The firm end stoke provides extra pop off of jump lips and berms, and unfortunately extra pop out of g-outs and unexpected deep compressions (ex. wheel falling into wedges/gaps/holes between obstacles).
> 
> ...


thank u for the explanation. good reasoning there.

so i took my fork apart... i mean the nut, there was 2 spacers installed already by manufacturer. i have 130mm fork
so i added one, i pressurized it to 75psi, so 3 tokens, 75 psi, 30% sag
for rebound i put at click #8 from the slow side, so slow all the way then 8 clicks toward speed.

LSC i turned out all the way counterclockwise and 3 clicks in...

im gona go ride it and see how it is.

so LSC, clockwise stiffens it and counterclockwise makes it dive on brakes?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

The more tokens you add:

1. the amount of sag increases and you start losing the nice zone at top of the travel.
2. rebound rates can get screwy and very hard to get right because of the non-linearity throughout the travel it will be a compromise that may or may not work well. 

Because of (2.) I would argue any increase in plushness is compromised


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

xzatx said:


> thank u for the explanation. good reasoning there.
> 
> so i took my fork apart... i mean the nut, there was 2 spacers installed already by manufacturer. i have 130mm fork
> so i added one, i pressurized it to 75psi, so 3 tokens, 75 psi, 30% sag
> ...


Clockwise stiffens it up. Best way is to get out and ride. Everyone is going to have their preferred setup but it is all based on some basic setup rules as outlined in great detail by xzatx above. Use someone else's setup as a guide only. They may ride different trails to you and prefer a different feel.

I upgraded to a Lyrik a year ago and the main difference there is the larger negative spring chamber which counters your positive air chamber. They do feel much more plush. A cheaper way of doing this is buying a Luftkappe from Vorsprung. It is basically a bigger negative chamber that replaces your current air piston. It does limit how many tokens you can use but should make a noticeable diff. I have some on order to fit to a couple of mates forks.


----------



## zooey (Oct 31, 2016)

Might help to give definitions the terms people are throwing around.

- Plushness is literally about using up a lot of travel on a hit. Jump from a height, onto a pile of cotton fluff-filled pillows, and you'll land deep in it, compared to how high the pillows were before you jumped. Or replace a trampoline's jumping surface with spandex, and jump on it and see how deep you go. Feels "plusher" than jumping on the stiff nylon trampoline surface, or jumping onto a rope net instead of pillows.

- Suppleness is like the difference between duck canvas Dickies pants and light weight brushed high thread count silk pants. The softness having the ability to move freely and conform to the slightest contour changes of the ground... it's hard to get this from suspension, but stiction and friction makes it even worse, like starching the pants. Suppleness is primarily gained through the tires, higher tpi ones offering more suppleness, which generally are flimsier and less durable.

- Support, I'm not totally sure about, but I see it as simply being anything that absorbs force, to limit and control movement from being too free, and make it come to a soft stop. People seem to believe they want totally free movement over a wide range of wheel travel, with extra support in response to specific sources of unwanted movement like bobbing from pedal mashing and brake dive, and also to not bottom too easily.

Also, to clear up what the knobs do: the rebound knob affects primarily the LSR. To change HSR, you would alter with the valving inside the Charger damper, which needs to be pulled out and completely disassembled, replacing shims. With more tokens, you should generally go with less LSR than you think is right, as it's much much more susceptible to packing down and becoming harsh on repeated bumps like braking bumps.

A lot of old bikes embraced plushness, and some still do, but I think more and more are going towards linear suspension for performance reasons. It feels more sporty, as opposed to feeling like you have blown suspension and bushings. People who want comfort, might actually be buying the wrong bikes. They're buying frames with compact dimensions, like a Smart car or Honda Fit, and are expecting high end suspension to make it feel plush like a limo. Might be better to make the vehicle longer, but lower and stiffen up the suspension, with quality high-volume tires, for best of both worlds comfort and handling response.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

xzatx said:


> that's like doing the oppposite of what i was thinking to do to help me make it plusher. . haha this topic will drive me crazy
> 
> I was planning to go with 3 tokens and lower the PSI to 65. and see if that makes it more plush.


That's the thing people forget. Tokens are called bottomless tokens as they are used stop your forks bottoming out by steepening the ramp up of pressure in your airspring chamber. It allows you to run lower pressures for sweet plushness without worrying about bottoming out....well at least the first part of the travel will be plush until the steep ramp up of pressure. That's the trade off. You will get better small to medium bump compliance but it will stiffen up at the higher end of travel. I ran a few tokens in my Pike and now Lyrik and have gotten used to the stiffer support at the top.

A good test is to keep letting air out until your fork bottoms on your favourite trail then add a token or 2 to stop it bottoming. You need to find that bottoming out point or watch where your o'ring is on the staunchion at the end of a run. And keep letting out air until you use most of the travel. Just a rule of thumb I use. Rockshox even mention this in their setup guide. I think it is a video on the product page.

I have just fitted an MRP volume adjust cartridge to my Lyrik and it has been great so far. It only adjusts volume during fast hits so it is speed sensitive. You get the best of both worlds. Ramped right up on the dial and it feels like 2 tokens on small hits and 4 tokens on bigger hits. Might be something worth considering if your having trouble getting your token setup right.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Xzatx let us know how your experiment goes. 

For what's worth I'm on a hardtail so take my recommendation with a grain of salt. Different people prefer different strokes.


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

Thank all for the feedback, 

so i just got back from a trail, i did 14 miles, 2000 feet... and the difference is huge now.. my grip on the handle bars was much more comfortable on long rocky descents... 
the fork is indeed MORE PLUSH... 

however, before i was 2mm away from bottoming up, now i have like 17mm.. which goes along the theory of more tokens help in not allowing the fork to bottom out.. 

so again my setup is 
198 lbs (my weight) 
bike santa cruz 5010, 130mm travel. 
3 Tokens installed, 75psi, 3 clicks LSC, 8 clicks rebound (from slow to fast), so 8 clicks from turtle figure, 30% sagg. 
the difference was really big and i like it like that. 

I'm not sure i can upgrade to lyrik yet .. i'm still not recovered from the cost of the bike. hehe. maybe next year!. so lyrik is better than fox?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

xzatx said:


> Thank all for the feedback,
> 
> so i just got back from a trail, i did 14 miles, 2000 feet... and the difference is huge now.. my grip on the handle bars was much more comfortable on long rocky descents...
> the fork is indeed MORE PLUSH...
> ...


Sounds like you found the sweet spot. Around 30% or just below is a good figure for sag. Sounds like you have a bit left for the bigger hits. I don't run Fox anymore but some of my mates like them. I'm sticking to RS as they have all service info and parts easily available which is huge for me as I do all my own servicing. Fox make it too hard. In saying that, I have over 1000km on my Lyrik now without issue so no need for servicing yet. Just about to put a 180mm air shaft in so will service the lowers then.


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

Thanks! .. yea the pike has been fine with me, i never owned a fox before though, i just hear its nice and plush. 

you are right about RS, lots of youtube support videos.


----------



## rhysjenz (Mar 3, 2012)

Surely the RockShox *Charger* Bleed Kit (00.4318.007.000) is meant to include the adaptor that's required to actually connect to the *Charger* damper?

The kit I bought seems to just have a Reverb-style adaptor. Looks nothing like the replacement Charger adaptor (11.4318.010.000) - which I guess I now need to go out and buy...

Anyone know if my kit was bogus, or if it's just intentionally a pain in the neck?


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Weird. 1yr ago this kit has only charger adapter. This year it has both


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

rhysjenz said:


> Surely the RockShox *Charger* Bleed Kit (00.4318.007.000) is meant to include the adaptor that's required to actually connect to the *Charger* damper?
> 
> The kit I bought seems to just have a Reverb-style adaptor. Looks nothing like the replacement Charger adaptor (11.4318.010.000) - which I guess I now need to go out and buy...
> 
> ...


I bought my kit a couple of years ago but it did come with the adapter. It looks like the right one on the left in your photo. You def got a reverb one in there too which seems weird as you need 2 syringes to bleed a reverb remote. I bought the brass adapter seperately thinking the kit might not come with one and have never used it. Only difference is the one in the kit is black plastic and may not last as long as the brass one of you use it in a shop.


----------



## rhysjenz (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks for pointing that out Niva! I'm a muppet!

Didn't look to closely at that black connector, and assumed it was the same as the other black ones.

Time to have a crack at it then


----------



## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

xzatx said:


> Thank all for the feedback,
> 
> so i just got back from a trail, i did 14 miles, 2000 feet... and the difference is huge now.. my grip on the handle bars was much more comfortable on long rocky descents...
> the fork is indeed MORE PLUSH...
> ...


72PSI and you should be there. Definitely don't want to be bottoming frequently and should have a small margin of buffer for mistakes, unexpected drops and the occasional bad line/Boulder collision.


----------



## rhysjenz (Mar 3, 2012)

Hopefully my last question for this rebuild: what's the deal with the updated air spring seal head? (RockShox # 11.4018.037.000)

Is it a semi-mandatory upgrade that improves over the older version, like the rebound seal head? Just wondering if I should bother ordering one in or not.









Cheers!


----------



## zooey (Oct 31, 2016)

Dang, they had to keep that annoying tab that makes removing the circlip a pain. Looks like it's lower friction, based on the seal geometry, with a finer lip. New seal actually looks like it was machined (not literally, just precision-wise), while the older one has wavy bits that's even visible with the naked eye in that pic.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rhysjenz said:


> Hopefully my last question for this rebuild: what's the deal with the updated air spring seal head? (RockShox # 11.4018.037.000)
> 
> Is it a semi-mandatory upgrade that improves over the older version, like the rebound seal head? Just wondering if I should bother ordering one in or not.
> 
> ...


Not much to see with them on the bench side by side. The oring section sizes are different externally. Can't recall internally. There might be a volume change but you'd need to get the verniers and calculator out to know for sure.

New topout bumper appears softer, but no objective measurements.


----------



## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Which is the better purchase, the 200 hour service kit or the full service kit?

Need to give both my wife and my Pike new lower seals and an annual clean up. The full service kit appears to include a new charger bladder, the 200 hour kit doesn't. But supposedly SRAM recommend the bladder is changed ~200 hours??


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

6thElement said:


> Which is the better purchase, the 200 hour service kit or the full service kit?
> 
> Need to give both my wife and my Pike new lower seals and an annual clean up. The full service kit appears to include a new charger bladder, the 200 hour kit doesn't. But supposedly SRAM recommend the bladder is changed ~200 hours??


I only stock the full service kit. It's more comprehensive and slightly cheaper than the 200hr kit.

Which makes the 200hr kit a bit bizarre.


----------



## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Dougal said:


> I only stock the full service kit. It's more comprehensive and slightly cheaper than the 200hr kit.
> 
> Which makes the 200hr kit a bit bizarre.


That's what I couldn't work out, 200hr kit is listed ~20usd more...

Just wasn't sure if somehow the full kit was missing something that's in the 200hr one.


----------



## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

I changed the travel on my 29" pike and forgot to measure how much stanchion was showing beforehand. Figured it would be a good idea to see if it had worked  

I went from 140mm to 120mm, but there's 130mm stanchion showing. 

Is that normal or did I reassemble it wrong? Suspension maintenance is somewhat new to me still. I assume it is 1cm clearance to not have the upper and lower parts of the fork smash into eachother at full compression?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Vegard said:


> I changed the travel on my 29" pike and forgot to measure how much stanchion was showing beforehand. Figured it would be a good idea to see if it had worked
> 
> I went from 140mm to 120mm, but there's 130mm stanchion showing.
> 
> Is that normal or did I reassemble it wrong? Suspension maintenance is somewhat new to me still. I assume it is 1cm clearance to not have the upper and lower parts of the fork smash into eachother at full compression?


From memory I think that sounds normal 
Also if you have put too much grease on the air shaft piston and it is clogging the equalising dimple hole it can take a few cycles of the fork to get the chambers to equalise. Your negative air chamber may not have pressurised yet. If you left anything out of the airspring assembly then you would be out by more than 10mm.

I edited my earlier response as I got it wrong and though lt you weren't getting full extension.


----------



## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Thanks, I think I'm allright then  I did the zip tie trick you mentioned before your edit aswell, was only a tiny bit of air coming out.


----------



## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

who among you here find yourselves constantly removing/adding a token or 2 depending on where you ride? btw i'm using 140mm 29er and i'm 155# and i keep my sag at 20%

here's the thing
- indoor pump track: 2 tokens nearly bottom out specially on 180 turns (~ 15mm left) and i'm not yet doing it hard
- real world trail: same config most travel i've used is half - yea i don't really ride that hard on real world apparently

so, aside from switching to an mrp, which i can't justify for my use (yet), anyone had a similar experience? thing is, repeatedly doing token adjustment is quite mundane for a weekend rider (PT on saturday, mountain on sunday)... or i just have to ride harder in the real world? :|


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Do you have have rct3?
Can you leave 2 tokens and dial in some lsc to help more in pump track so it may not use as much travel?


spyghost said:


> who among you here find yourselves constantly removing/adding a token or 2 depending on where you ride? btw i'm using 140mm 29er and i'm 155# and i keep my sag at 20%
> 
> here's the thing
> - indoor pump track: 2 tokens nearly bottom out specially on 180 turns (~ 15mm left) and i'm not yet doing it hard
> ...


----------



## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

lucifuge said:


> Do you have have rct3?
> Can you leave 2 tokens and dial in some lsc to help more in pump track so it may not use as much travel?


yep, rct3 and always open. i haven't played with adding lsc, but won't that be for small bump compliance and that rollers and berms are classified as high speed?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

It will make small bump degrade yes, but depending upon how much you dial in it may not be noticeable. Rollers and berms are LOW speed events. exactly what you want LSC for. (HSC is for square hits ...i.e. not issues your are facing)

I would think LSC would be the magic answer to your problem. Might need minimum of 4-7 clicks from open for it be of benefit.



spyghost said:


> yep, rct3 and always open. i haven't played with adding lsc, but won't that be for small bump compliance and that rollers and berms are classified as high speed?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

spyghost said:


> yep, rct3 and always open. i haven't played with adding lsc, but won't that be for small bump compliance and that rollers and berms are classified as high speed?


What Lucifuge said. I run 4-5 click of LSC from fully open and that provides support. The trouble with pump tracks is the g-outs. Some more HSC or LSC will keep you higher up in the travel so you can take the bigger hits.

A great new tool is a Shockwiz. I have had my ne since August last year and they are great at identifying problems with shock performance. I got one cheap as I backed the project as a Kickstarter.

Split the cost with some mates and share it around. It will definitely make a difference for you. You always need to get your air pressure right with Pike/Lyrik. I run 27% sag and find it a sweetspot. You then ramp HSC and LSC depending on terrain. Also don't forget rebound. It is one of the most overlooked adjustments. If you slow your rebound down I think you will use more of your travel and gain traction in the real world trails.


----------



## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

spyghost said:


> who among you here find yourselves constantly removing/adding a token or 2 depending on where you ride? btw i'm using 140mm 29er and i'm 155# and i keep my sag at 20%
> 
> here's the thing
> - indoor pump track: 2 tokens nearly bottom out specially on 180 turns (~ 15mm left) and i'm not yet doing it hard
> ...


Sag at 20% seems much too firm. I run a 130 Pike at 25-30% is find it pretty supple and not too divey in technical rocky stuff. I weigh 200ish fwiw. 3-4 clicks lsc seems to help too


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

spyghost said:


> yep, rct3 and always open. i haven't played with adding lsc, but won't that be for small bump compliance and that rollers and berms are classified as high speed?


Pump tracks are low speed compression unless you screw up the rhythm and nosedive the front wheel into the face of a roller. Crank that low speed compression dial to full firm for pump tracks, it keeps the fork higher in its travel, allows you to push into the rollers & berms for better pumping, and you don't need small bump compliance anyway since the tracks are nice & smooth. When I ride pump tracks on my bike, I either lock out the fork or run it 1-2 clicks at most from full firm.


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

in fact, why not just leave it trail mode LOL


----------



## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

in my session yesterday, this was my setting:

- 3 tokens (came from 2)
- lsc full
- rebound midway (adding 1 more click to fast makes me bouncy - but this could just be my timing off)
- sag a bit less than 30% mark at 55 PSI (i'm 150#)

i'm still nearly bottoming out with around 15mm to spare before bottoming out. from a third person POV, i was losing the travel on the 180 turns and not on the rollers. at this setup i already feel pump in my upper back.

next experiment would be removing 1 token (back to 2), and raise my rebound and modify my timing a bit. do you think this is a good idea or just install all tokens (4) ?


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

What exact pike is it?


spyghost said:


> in my session yesterday, this was my setting:
> 
> - 3 tokens (came from 2)
> - lsc full
> ...


----------



## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

lucifuge said:


> What exact pike is it?


29er 140 solo rct3 non-boost


----------



## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Can't see why would need any tokens at your weight. I would only use minimum.
Also pike performs better at around 20 to 22 psi. This will mean you'll hardly need any lsc and still not bottom out. Up to you.


spyghost said:


> 29er 140 solo rct3 non-boost


----------



## zooey (Oct 31, 2016)

spyghost said:


> in my session yesterday, this was my setting:
> 
> - 3 tokens (came from 2)
> - lsc full
> ...


Why are you running so much sag?


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

imo pike is overdamper for such a light people like 160lbs and below. I installed luftkappe, take out one shim from compression stack and used rs 2,5wt oil. It fells much better now.


----------



## danlorek (Sep 27, 2005)

nikon255 said:


> imo pike is overdamper for such a light people like 160lbs and below. I installed luftkappe, take out one shim from compression stack and used rs 2,5wt oil. It fells much better now.


This is the exact same as I have observed as I'm about 160lbs. I have been tuning all over the place with this thing and finally dropped the oil weight down this past weekend, but haven't tried the luftkappe or shimming change yet.

It seems marginally better, but I still feel as though I am running a bit softer than I would prefer to keep the harshness in check and the shim change sounds like a good next move since the weight does not have so much impact on this.

I have not looked inside of the damper assembly, but did you simply remove the last shim and tighten down the piston bolt, or add a clamp shim in its place?


----------



## xzatx (Jan 15, 2017)

i didnt want to waste money experimenting, i sold my pike friday and got a new fox fork.

BTW i'm 190 lbs and pike was just too stifff on the lightest settings. 

In my opinion a fork should be very plush in plush settings and you could make it stiff if you chose so, Pike is SUPER STIFF in the plush'est settings and a rock in the firm settings


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

danlorek said:


> This is the exact same as I have observed as I'm about 160lbs. I have been tuning all over the place with this thing and finally dropped the oil weight down this past weekend, but haven't tried the luftkappe or shimming change yet.
> 
> It seems marginally better, but I still feel as though I am running a bit softer than I would prefer to keep the harshness in check and the shim change sounds like a good next move since the weight does not have so much impact on this.
> 
> I have not looked inside of the damper assembly, but did you simply remove the last shim and tighten down the piston bolt, or add a clamp shim in its place?


yeah, I had to remove it. Its so thin that you dont have to replace it with clamp shim. There's also thinner oil than all - Red Line Like Water, but its hard to find in Poland.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

xzatx said:


> i didnt want to waste money experimenting, i sold my pike friday and got a new fox fork.
> 
> BTW i'm 190 lbs and pike was just too stifff on the lightest settings.
> 
> In my opinion a fork should be very plush in plush settings and you could make it stiff if you chose so, Pike is SUPER STIFF in the plush'est settings and a rock in the firm settings


I sold my Pike too for the same reason and bought a Marzocchi.


----------



## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

Is a single bottle of 120ml 3wt oil more than enough to rebuild the damper?


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

spyghost said:


> Is a single bottle of 120ml 3wt oil more than enough to rebuild the damper?


Yes.


----------



## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

spyghost said:


> Is a single bottle of 120ml 3wt oil more than enough to rebuild the damper?


Yes. But might not be if you doing it the first time.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

It should be more than plenty for bleeding the damper, but be careful not to waste any if you're taking the damper apart and need to refill everything.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

....


----------



## bigmatt05 (Sep 11, 2012)

i have read all through this thread still cannot find an answer. can i use mobil 1 5-30 for lowers on my 2016 pike? or fox gold 20? im a newbe so any help would be appreciated.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

i'd suggest fox gold 20 or motorex supergliss 100k


----------



## bigmatt05 (Sep 11, 2012)

thank you


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bigmatt05 said:


> i have read all through this thread still cannot find an answer. can i use mobil 1 5-30 for lowers on my 2016 pike? or fox gold 20? im a newbe so any help would be appreciated.


I'm a stickler and do it by the book and use RS oils everytime but have heard fox gold is awesome.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

niva1989 said:


> I'm a stickler and do it by the book and use RS oils everytime but have heard fox gold is awesome.


Fox Gold is Awesome in the warm. Supergliss is Super-Awesome in the warm. Below freezing both of these thicken up a lot which slows your fork down a bit. Extra damping.

I've got a fluid coming that'll be as thin in the cold as RS 0W30 but lube better. But it's not here yet.
If you're riding sub zero you'll find the RS 3wt thickens up faster in the cold than you want also.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Fox Gold is Awesome in the warm. Supergliss is Super-Awesome in the warm. Below freezing both of these thicken up a lot which slows your fork down a bit. Extra damping.
> 
> I've got a fluid coming that'll be as thin in the cold as RS 0W30 but lube better. But it's not here yet.
> If you're riding sub zero you'll find the RS 3wt thickens up faster in the cold than you want also.


I'm in Sydney so cold not an issue 😜
Would gladly exchange that for the trails you have in NZ.


----------



## bigmatt05 (Sep 11, 2012)

I am going to order some. the motor cycle dealer here in town carries fox oil and maxima oils. I got 5wt fork oil for a whole lot cheaper then going through bike store. when i changed travel on the pike it had almost no oil in them. i taped to clear cups to bottom of fork legs to catch oil. 2ml? maybe came out of each leg. it calls for 10ml. i just used some mobil 1 i have for my truck. but will get correct oil. i like fox oil. temps around here go low 40's during the winter months. i'm from n.california


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bigmatt05 said:


> I am going to order some. the motor cycle dealer here in town carries fox oil and maxima oils. I got 5wt fork oil for a whole lot cheaper then going through bike store. when i changed travel on the pike it had almost no oil in them. i taped to clear cups to bottom of fork legs to catch oil. 2ml? maybe came out of each leg. it calls for 10ml. i just used some mobil 1 i have for my truck. but will get correct oil. i like fox oil. temps around here go low 40's during the winter months. i'm from n.california


It does seem like a small amount of oil to come out of the lowers but there is a coating over all the components inside that would add up if you could scrape it all out.


----------



## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

I'm using Mobil 1 synthetic 0-30. Works great as far as I can tell and is cheap and easy to find


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gripo (May 2, 2005)

Purchased a 2017? Pike RCT Solo RCT 160mm from an owner of a Santa Cruz Nomad 3....It had been rebuilt by SRAM with a new CSU due to creaky steerer....

I get it home and see that it has a 45 (not 46) as opposed to the 42 cast into the underside of the CSU of the Pike I have on my Bronson....I intend to use the 2nd hand fork on a SC 5010 V1 at 140mm travel....

Anyone struck what I believe is an oddball Pike CSU offset....how will it make the 5010 handle....btw I have been riding the 5010 previously with the 42/140 Pike...


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Gripo said:


> Purchased a 2017? Pike RCT Solo RCT 160mm from an owner of a Santa Cruz Nomad 3....It had been rebuilt by SRAM with a new CSU due to creaky steerer....
> 
> I get it home and see that it has a 45 (not 46) as opposed to the 42 cast into the underside of the CSU of the Pike I have on my Bronson....I intend to use the 2nd hand fork on a SC 5010 V1 at 140mm travel....
> 
> Anyone struck what I believe is an oddball Pike CSU offset....how will it make the 5010 handle....btw I have been riding the 5010 previously with the 42/140 Pike...


A 3mm change in offset is virtually unnoticeable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Creaky CSU issues abound! I have had two Pikes go creaky in the last couple of weeks :S


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

I've ordered the Charger2 damper to put in my '14 Pike. I already have the Lufftkappe and that was an improvement but the fork still felt too harsh so I'm hoping the new damper can feel much better.


----------



## xxxzanka (Jan 25, 2017)

I am going to service my pike. It is possible to use rockshox pm600 military grease (i have tons of it) insted the Sram butter? Any inconvenience on using pm600?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

xxxzanka said:


> I am going to service my pike. It is possible to use rockshox pm600 military grease (i have tons of it) insted the Sram butter? Any inconvenience on using pm600?


PM600 is for coil springs. Use Slickoleum (aka Sram butter) for seals and bushings.


----------



## xxxzanka (Jan 25, 2017)

I currently use pm600 for servicing my other fork (recon silver) orings as reported on sram manual. Would pike orings be so different?


----------



## arashi (Jan 15, 2009)

xxxzanka said:


> I currently use pm600 for servicing my other fork (recon silver) orings as reported on sram manual. Would pike orings be so different?


Yeah I use the same PM600 grease instead of Sram butter and it works great.


----------



## xxxzanka (Jan 25, 2017)

Ok I will use grease and oil I already have:
- pm600 instead of sram butter
- RS 15wt instead of 0-30w for lowers
- RS 2,5wt instead of 3wt for charger.
Hope everything will be ok


----------



## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

xxxzanka said:


> Ok I will use grease and oil I already have:
> - pm600 instead of sram butter
> - RS 15wt instead of 0-30w for lowers
> - RS 2,5wt instead of 3wt for charger.
> Hope everything will be ok


Pm600 is too thick and tacky for wiper seals in my opinion. I wouldn't use that myself.

Why not just get the proper stuff?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

xxxzanka said:


> I currently use pm600 for servicing my other fork (recon silver) orings as reported on sram manual. Would pike orings be so different?


PM600 is thick and red. So you'll get thick red blobs through your oil. Slickoleum won't.



xxxzanka said:


> Ok I will use grease and oil I already have:
> - pm600 instead of sram butter
> - RS 15wt instead of 0-30w for lowers
> - RS 2,5wt instead of 3wt for charger.
> Hope everything will be ok


The RS 0w30 lubes better. Supergliss lubes even better. 15wt will work but they fork may feel sticky.
RS 2.5wt will work but will fade out more when it gets hot and thicken up more when it gets colder.


----------



## xxxzanka (Jan 25, 2017)

Yes sure, but I hope an average biker like me will not feel any difference or am I wrong?


----------



## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

delete


----------



## Sambones80 (Sep 2, 2016)

*Bottoming Out*

I've been reading and searching this thread and others and my problem seems to be the opposite of a lot of other people's. It seems to bottom out way too easily. I've added all the tokens I have, I think I'm up to 4, had 2 when I got it.

I bought my bike used and at first the fork seemed a bit too harsh, I backed off the damping and LSC and got it to feel pretty good but still only used about 70% of travel. I discovered the "air trapped in lowers" thing so I burped the seals and that's when the trouble started.

It's probably time for a full service, bleed the charger... but I'd like to hear other's input as well.

2016 Solo Air RC, 130mm, 27.5", Weight 175lbs, Pressure 75psi, LSC 8 clicks in, Rebound 6 clicks from fast.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Is it sitting at full extension with no weight on? You could have a vacuum in the lowers if you didn’t burp it at full extension.


----------



## Sambones80 (Sep 2, 2016)

Yes, full extension with no weight. I burped the seals at full extension.

On my ride today I added a few more clicks of LSC and didn't bottom out but still felt good and I'm hearing a lot of psssst noises going over small to med roots. I'm gonna start by bleeding the charger.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Sambones80 said:


> Yes, full extension with no weight. I burped the seals at full extension.
> 
> On my ride today I added a few more clicks of LSC and didn't bottom out but still felt good and I'm hearing a lot of psssst noises going over small to med roots. I'm gonna start by bleeding the charger.


Ok. Maybe just do a full rebuild while your at it. It's super easy to do with the right tools.


----------



## Sambones80 (Sep 2, 2016)

Does the charger bleed kit use the same fitting as an Avid brake bleeder? They look compatible in pics.

edit: Never mind... can't trust those Amazon pics. It looks completely different


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Sambones80 said:


> Does the charger bleed kit use the same fitting as an Avid brake bleeder? They look compatible in pics.
> 
> edit: Never mind... can't trust those Amazon pics. It looks completely different


The Charger 2 damper uses the same fitting. However you do not want to get mineral oil in your brakes nor DOT fluid in your forks.

The Reverb post uses the same bleed fittings and similar oil. Get a kit for that and label it as such if you have Charger2.

Charger 1 has it's own fitting. I sell the brass one: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/rockshox-bleed-fitting-for-charger-damper-sram.html
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/charger-damper-bleed-kit-for-pike-lyrik-boxxer-forks-shockcraft.html


----------



## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

Hello, Ive followed this thread a bit and thought id ask here first.

I have a 2014-2016 15x100 pike rct3 that i intend to replace the CSU as it was cut a little too short, and id also like to reduce the offset a bit. My question is, can i use the CSU off a non-boost yari with the pike lower legs? I plan on installing a 160mm push coil conversion at the same time if that makes any difference.

thanks in advance,
Marcus


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

Please for the love of god call sram tech support and ask them 1-312-664-8800. They are easy to get a hold of, mostly friendly, mostly knowledgeable, and would really know best.


----------



## Thorjensen (Jun 4, 2013)

bigmatt05 said:


> i have read all through this thread still cannot find an answer. can i use mobil 1 5-30 for lowers on my 2016 pike? or fox gold 20? im a newbe so any help would be appreciated.


I only use Fox Gold 20wt on the lowers on all RS forks I service - ppl get RS oil if want so.

The Gold oil is much more stringy, sticks better and I find the fork more plush compared to when using RS oil.


----------



## ATXZJ (Apr 9, 2012)

spunkmtb said:


> Please for the love of god call sram tech support and ask them 1-312-664-8800. They are easy to get a hold of, mostly friendly, mostly knowledgeable, and would really know best.


Hyperbole much?

Figured someone had tried or considered this at some point. Sram it is


----------

