# Looking to Dabble - Need Some Advice



## Magsrgod (Jun 21, 2006)

Been looking at getting an ebike for quite sometime now and I'm looking for some advice on which and if a few pounds between frames really matters. 

I've been riding bikes for years and the last few years I've deviated towards mullet bikes. Currently ride a SB165 and SB140 both in mullet configurations. If I don't ride a mullet bike I prefer a pure 27.5 to a pure 29er. My only real experience on an ebike is with a Pivot Shuttle running the E8000 motor and running a couple pedal laps at Highland. It normally takes me 14 - 16 minutes to climb the hill, I had it done in less than 8 and I wasn't gassed. I haven't smiled that hard riding a bike in years, it was unreal good 

The ebikes I had been looking at were the YT Decoy Pro Race that's now sold out and the new Commencal Meta Power SX 27 signature. Both top end specs but obviously the Meta has the next gen EP8 motor and the larger battery. Today SC released the Bullit which checks a lot of boxes mullet / spec / motor and such. 

Part spec, geometry and suspension platforms aside is there a big perceived difference between the 4-6 pound deviation I think there would be between these platforms? Is there a large effect on battery life of the bike?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I wouldn’t be overly worried about the weight, at the end of the day you may find that the value and potential is in the YT. The e8000 motor is bulletproof. I’m going to run my Pro race another season and see how the ep8 motor plays out. Mine is a 2019 with full fox factory, carbon wheels, RSC brakes, di2 shifting for 7k. Insane value, plus you can hammer the heck out of it with no worries. Can you tell I like YT?! Anyrate, JMO. Btw, all the big battery bikes will hover around 48-51# roughly. When YT drops the 700wh battery, that’s going to be nice.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Regarding the e8000 being bulletproof, my e8000 regularly gives me an E020 fault, which gets replaced by an E010 fault after 2 seconds of beeping and shutting off assistance. 2018 model year, been riding it for 3 years, 8k miles. It may be a coincidence, but I noticed it happening on almost all my rides after I rode this summer at a high outside temp (104F/40C) and got beeps for overheating.

No pattern to the faults. Happens often when I'm just cruising on the side of the road or on a fire road while in eco mode, but that's probably because a large amount of my riding time is doing just that. I think I get the error once every 1.5 hours of riding on average.

IMO, emtbs are going through the same phase 29er did. It's at the same point about 10 years ago, where bigger brands started making their own and they started looking good, and people were recognizing that real money was being spent, such as on weight weenie stuff to get "playfulness" back. Hopefully geo doesn't take 10 years to catch up like it did for 29ers. Some new standards are likely going to be introduced to make emtbs better, and they'll trickle back to classic MTBs too. Already seeing 160mm cranks (and shorter) and 1.8 tapered steerers in the works. Some have gone 157 super boost too, like the Kona Remote 160. There has also been at least a couple dual crown fork models. A new trend seems to be the "SUV", where people use the one emtb for everything inc commuting, backpacking, enduro, trail, etc. with kickstand and full fender. Seeing a lot of people with their saddles slid all the way forward too...


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

8000 miles is awesome! Try and get that out of a Levo. I agree with the trends. I turn mine on and don’t touch the pedals. If you start pedaling then turn on it throws an error code.


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## Magsrgod (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks for the responses! 

Something I consistently see across a lot of reviews is very high praise for the Bosch motor. Have you guys had a chance to try those motors out and have any long term feedback vs the Shimano motor? It would change the bikes I'm looking at but the Orbea Wild and the Trek Rail (to some extent) seem pretty good as well. 

I agree the segment of the market is changing rapidly. I really only see myself keeping whatever bike I get for a year, maybe two before flipping it and refreshing it with a new one. It's looking like the arms race is about to really heat up and companies are going to deviate and start testing the waters. As you've guys have said lighter smaller motor / batteries bikes like Orbea and Specialized are doing. Even the dual crown I think would be intriguing to people who live in the right area for that bike. In New England people are still pretty anti ebike so riding around here is limited but as places open up I can only expect its going to drive the manufactures to make even more options. 

Do you guys have a generally have multiple batteries? How long do the bikes usually take to charge?


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> Regarding the e8000 being bulletproof, my e8000 regularly gives me an E020 fault, which gets replaced by an E010 fault after 2 seconds of beeping and shutting off assistance. 2018 model year, been riding it for 3 years, 8k miles. It may be a coincidence, but I noticed it happening on almost all my rides after I rode this summer at a high outside temp (104F/40C) and got beeps for overheating.
> 
> No pattern to the faults. Happens often when I'm just cruising on the side of the road or on a fire road while in eco mode, but that's probably because a large amount of my riding time is doing just that. I think I get the error once every 1.5 hours of riding on average.


E bikes will not overcome these problems without limiting power before the shut down from temperature. High rpm and low gearing is the key to staying out of trouble when its warm.

I prefer a larger battery to a lighter bike but not everyone agrees on that one. The heavier the bike the more sluggish it will feel in quickness of handling. That is not a bad thing as your reflexes slow down with age and you back away from the gnarr.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Magsrgod said:


> Been looking at getting an ebike for quite sometime now and I'm looking for some advice on which and if a few pounds between frames really matters.
> 
> I've been riding bikes for years and the last few years I've deviated towards mullet bikes. Currently ride a SB165 and SB140 both in mullet configurations. If I don't ride a mullet bike I prefer a pure 27.5 to a pure 29er. My only real experience on an ebike is with a Pivot Shuttle running the E8000 motor and running a couple pedal laps at Highland. It normally takes me 14 - 16 minutes to climb the hill, I had it done in less than 8 and I wasn't gassed. I haven't smiled that hard riding a bike in years, it was unreal good
> 
> ...


Two things I would consider carefully:

- If you choose to buy from a direct-to-consumer brand, keep in mind that handling of warranty issues may be significantly more inconvenient than with a bike shop/retailer. Particularly with the complexity of eMTBs versus regular bikes this should be a factor in your choice

- I would be somewhat cautious buying a previous generation drive system given that future parts availability is unknown (Shimano has not been forthcoming as to how long E8000/E7000 parts will be available)

The good news is that there are lots and lots of great choices and options, far more than ever before.


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## Magsrgod (Jun 21, 2006)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Two things I would consider carefully:
> 
> - If you choose to buy from a direct-to-consumer brand, keep in mind that handling of warranty issues may be significantly more inconvenient than with a bike shop/retailer. Particularly with the complexity of eMTBs versus regular bikes this should be a factor in your choice
> 
> ...


Thanks and it makes perfect sense to me. I haven't been following a lot of the reliability of the bikes and systems in general. Has there been enough issues with the systems where it should be a higher concern than say a traditional MTB purchase from a direct to consumer brand?


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Magsrgod said:


> I agree the segment of the market is changing rapidly. I really only see myself keeping whatever bike I get for a year, maybe two before flipping it and refreshing it with a new one.


Haibike. Solid bikes with Yamaha power (like Giant) and you will have the option of keeping it as a second bike. I hope they do another Black Friday sale. Last year I paid $2,600 for a $4,800 bike!


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Magsrgod said:


> Thanks and it makes perfect sense to me. I haven't been following a lot of the reliability of the bikes and systems in general. Has there been enough issues with the systems where it should be a higher concern than say a traditional MTB purchase from a direct to consumer brand?


Only way is to find out I guess. So far so good with my 5K Canyon Spectral ON. In my case, I really want a Heckler in the new XT build - but I vow not to spend 10K on a bike - just not yet at least ha ha.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Magsrgod said:


> Thanks and it makes perfect sense to me. I haven't been following a lot of the reliability of the bikes and systems in general. Has there been enough issues with the systems where it should be a higher concern than say a traditional MTB purchase from a direct to consumer brand?


In short, yes, there will be (and have been) inherently more issues with an eMTB. Not unique to direct to consumer brands of course. Just that in those cases, dealing with warranty issues can be a nightmare depending on your location and the specific issue. And again, even with a LBS in the mix, it can still be a mess, but at least you have a local advocate and someone to ship stuff for you if needed!

If you're mechanically competent, it's less of a concern of course.

All that said, the likelihood of a warranty issue is still rather small.


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## Magsrgod (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks for all the help guys! I actually placed a order for the Bullit, looking at 4/2021 time frame for delivery :madman:

When we were looking through the SC B2B system the specs were showing slightly different than what was on SC's webpage. Most of the bikes mid level bikes looked like they were spec'd with DPX2 shocks and the top XO1 build was either a Factory X2 or Factory DHX2 option. The RS rear shock option was listed as SDS+ which I believe is stands for Super Deluxe Select +.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Magsrgod said:


> Thanks for all the help guys! I actually placed a order for the Bullit, looking at 4/2021 time frame for delivery


Interesting that my LBS gave me that same 4/2021 delivery for a Trek Rail.
I can't wait for 6 months, so I bought (and ride) the Canyon Spectral ON - which is money well spent.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Gutch said:


> 8000 miles is awesome! Try and get that out of a Levo. I agree with the trends. I turn mine on and don't touch the pedals. If you start pedaling then turn on it throws an error code.





PierreR said:


> E bikes will not overcome these problems without limiting power before the shut down from temperature. High rpm and low gearing is the key to staying out of trouble when its warm.
> 
> I prefer a larger battery to a lighter bike but not everyone agrees on that one. The heavier the bike the more sluggish it will feel in quickness of handling. That is not a bad thing as your reflexes slow down with age and you back away from the gnarr.


Heat kills these motors I'm guessing. I'm not typically one to regularly ride in Boost/Turbo for extended periods; it's like my bail-out mode. I just happened to on that day, since I was just curious to find out first hand how the bike handled high heat.

I have that ride recorded, if you want to see how I permanently damaged my emtb's electrical system (time lapse)...






At the 1:00 mark, the bike beeped at me. It was mysterious as it didn't give me any notice, it didn't turn off nor limit assistance, so I kept riding. I only had a faint hunch that it was for high temp, and wanted to see what would happen if I ignored it. It beeped again at 3:50. I forget where else...


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Heat buildup can be much faster than anyone would guess. Small changes in power and gearing can make large differences and can overhead motors in a mater of minutes, a real eye opener for me.

Justin has a wealth of information on this at his website. https://ebikes.ca/

Dig around under learning a tools. Its well worth the read and a good company to do business with.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Magsrgod said:


> Thanks for all the help guys! I actually placed a order for the Bullit, looking at 4/2021 time frame for delivery :madman:
> 
> When we were looking through the SC B2B system the specs were showing slightly different than what was on SC's webpage. Most of the bikes mid level bikes looked like they were spec'd with DPX2 shocks and the top XO1 build was either a Factory X2 or Factory DHX2 option. The RS rear shock option was listed as SDS+ which I believe is stands for Super Deluxe Select +.


Very nice. I'm sure that bike will be sweet.


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