# Best way to navigate on new trails.



## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

What is the best way to download maps and navigate on trail? MTB Project app is nice. I see that their maps can be downloaded as .gpx, which intrigues me to use a garmin instead of a phone. Which garmin works best for using a .gpx file to navigate with? Or is it best to just use the smartphone?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Best way, IMO, is to have a really high quality tangible map. There are some areas I've been that have such maps. No digital device can give you the big picture view you can get with a good paper (or other good material - I have a couple excellent maps printed on microfiber cloths) map.

All digital navigation methods are inferior, IMO. There are problems with every digital method you can use, so you're always going to have some kind of compromise. The compromise might be with the hardware you're using (say, small screen, hard to read, difficult to navigate the device, battery life, waterproofness, etc), or it might be the software (poor display of data, confusing menus, and so on). Oftentimes, the data you're trying to load is problematic. Last year I did an 80+mi road ride around the city with some friends, and one of them supplied a .gpx on MapMyRide. Visually, it showed the route, but there were some problems with the actual implementation when you looked at the details on it. I spent a couple hours redoing the file on RideWithGPS and making sure it had good navigation cues and that everything was top notch, and then I shared the file I had made. A few people used the original file, and when they all rode off ahead of me ('cause I'm slow), they ended up with a lot of confusion in some places because of that poorly done original file. At one point, that confusion resulted in a nasty wreck that sent one rider to the hospital when riders who got a late turn notification made a sudden sharp turn, surprising the riders who weren't using GPS computers and therefore were just following along with people who knew the route.

When I ride, I try to limit my smartphone use. Touchscreens go apeshit when the screens get wet and sweaty. Modern phones are too damn big for the handlebars. UI's on them are quite nice, but app quality is pretty hit-or-miss. Garmins are nice and there are small and powerful ones that work well on the bars/stem. But their UI's aren't as nice as most phones and that's a problem for some people (I am cool with it - I like simple and straightforward). Garmins sorta assume you know something about GPS and navigation, so if you're unfamiliar with a lot of the terminology, it can be difficult to find what you're looking for. Cheaper Garmins at this point aren't worth it. Like the Edge 20/25 and 200. Don't buy them. Garmin stripped out too many features to bring the cost down.

I use a Garmin Edge 520 and have followed .gpx files, but getting decent notifications from them requires effort to set up the Course file well. You can base it off of a previous track or mtbproject file, but those won't necessarily be all that good by themselves. They will work, but you won't get as many notifications as you could unless you massage the data. I haven't tried following a "ride" in mtbproject on my phone. The app can be a bit flaky at times, so when I do use it, it's just for quick location checks and then I put it away.


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

Harold said:


> Best way, IMO, is to have a really high quality tangible map. There are some areas I've been that have such maps. No digital device can give you the big picture view you can get with a good paper (or other good material - I have a couple excellent maps printed on microfiber cloths) map.
> 
> All digital navigation methods are inferior, IMO. There are problems with every digital method you can use, so you're always going to have some kind of compromise. The compromise might be with the hardware you're using (say, small screen, hard to read, difficult to navigate the device, battery life, waterproofness, etc), or it might be the software (poor display of data, confusing menus, and so on). Oftentimes, the data you're trying to load is problematic. Last year I did an 80+mi road ride around the city with some friends, and one of them supplied a .gpx on MapMyRide. Visually, it showed the route, but there were some problems with the actual implementation when you looked at the details on it. I spent a couple hours redoing the file on RideWithGPS and making sure it had good navigation cues and that everything was top notch, and then I shared the file I had made. A few people used the original file, and when they all rode off ahead of me ('cause I'm slow), they ended up with a lot of confusion in some places because of that poorly done original file. At one point, that confusion resulted in a nasty wreck that sent one rider to the hospital when riders who got a late turn notification made a sudden sharp turn, surprising the riders who weren't using GPS computers and therefore were just following along with people who knew the route.
> 
> ...


Thanks Harold. I have a Garmin 800, and was just beginning to mess with uploading a gpx. I am sure I can figure it out, but it seems like a significant time investment. Not having a newer Garmin I wasn't sure it the technology had come along further, but your description sounds like it still has a ways to go. Thanks, I will print maps, make sure I study the route and use my phone as a convenience but not depend on it.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The UI on more recent Garmins is better than it used to be. Yours is recent enough that changes will probably be subtle and mostly related to organization. Not a huge deal.

You can do basic nav with it by just dropping a previous ride or a mtbproject .gpx export into the device. But to get the best out of it, you'll need to do more with it. With yours supporting street maps, you probably won't have to do all the extra legwork for road rides, since the roads are already programmed into the device. My 520 needs cues, since it only displays any map data - none of it is searchable. You'll have to add cues if you want to navigate mtb trails, though, because chances are the full trail network won't be on the maps you use.


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## Pegleg81 (Aug 6, 2014)

Hey Harold,

What software do you use to add cues to your .gpx files? 
I would love to add navigation cues so that when I ride a trail for the first time using my Garmin Edge 1000 - usually to pre-ride a race route - so I don't have to spend time trying to backtracking or trying to figure out the route.

It would even be nice to be able to add sound cues, too.

Thanks.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Pegleg81 said:


> Hey Harold,
> 
> What software do you use to add cues to your .gpx files?
> I would love to add navigation cues so that when I ride a trail for the first time using my Garmin Edge 1000 - usually to pre-ride a race route - so I don't have to spend time trying to backtracking or trying to figure out the route.
> ...


RideWithGPS website interface.

Getting the cues embedded into the Course file (.tcx file, actually) will be more work for mtb trails than for roads (where I have used the function so far), especially if the trails in question are not on OSM maps (one of the layers RWGPS offers to help you build Courses). If you don't know where the intersections are, it's difficult to know where to put directional cues. When a cue comes up, the GPS will beep, btw. There's also a bit of a learning curve to getting the cues placed where they're useful. For obvious reasons, you don't want the cue showing up AFTER your turn, and there are ways that can easily happen in RWGPS. It's something you should experiment with before you want to rely on it for higher speed trail navigation. You might want to ensure the cue pops up a little sooner before the turn, and that's definitely something you have control over. A premium account with RWGPS gives you access to custom cues, so you can pop up warnings about feed zones or hazard zones (like a section of 2-way trail that was in a race I did earlier this season) or whatnot, not just directional cues.


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## Pegleg81 (Aug 6, 2014)

Thanks! I think that I'll give it a shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

While not 100% accurate the My Trails map overlay is pretty good to have. I've certainly used it to good effect when riding new places.

My Trails-High Quality Trail and POI Maps Garmin Compatible Map - GPSFileDepot


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## Loch (Apr 29, 2011)

For navigating new trails, I will find a route I want to follow or make one up. I use every resource I can find about the area I am riding. Trail forks, Mapmyride, MTB project, strava (the heatmap is quite useful to see what trails are popular), Garmin Connect, Ridewithgps, etc. 

Once I have the basic route I want to follow I will upload that to my Garmin Edge 800 as a gpx or tcx (with cues).

I then follow the route on the trail using the Garmin. I hate using my phone. Nothing ruins the flow of a ride like having to pull my phone out of my pocket every time I come to an intersection.

I have been using my phone as backup. Usually with the Trailforks app (this app has just keeps getting better). Especially if I feel like I want to explore a little or have some extra time. I can use the app to check out some trails that are not on my prescribed route.

For navigating remote backcountry trials this would all be subsidized with paper maps as Harold has mentioned.


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

I usually try to study the route in my mind so I can visualize it on the trails. Then I'll download a PDF of the route to my phone. That way I can open it with or without a cell connection.


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