# BBSHD Ludacrous, I was dissapointed



## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

For 2 years I have been riding with a guy that bought a turn key bike from Luna.
It is a Giant full suspension Mt Bike assisted with a BBSHD Ludicrous.

I rode it yesterday without the throttle and was very disappointed in the power delivery.
Yes it has much more assist than my Bosch CX.

My issue is that it takes a half or more turn of the crank before the assist starts and a second or so for the assist to stop after you stop pedaling.

Maybe you get use to that, but I would not call it natural or safe on technical trails with exposure.

Is this normal for cadence sensing assist??


----------



## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

I have a five yo BBS02 with 9 PAS settings, 22 amps and a 2-3 yo with 5 PAS settings, 25 amps. The "5 yo", with the original controller (replaced in newer units because it had "reliability" issues), has operated perfectly and seems to integrate with pedaling better than the newer one. Might be related to your BBSHD experience.


----------



## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Yeah that's how they work, you want torque sensing it sounds. You can go into the settings with a USB cable and PC and probably make a more natural PAS, or adjust the throttle. If you want the motor to cut attach a brake sensor. I can cut the power by barely squeezing the front brake, without actually braking.


----------



## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Should have added; qualitatively on the same trails, the BBS, while more powerful, is comparable at integrating with pedaling to my 2017 Haibike Yamaha. As above, maybe it's how the system is configured since I've read other comments on controllers that imply they can provide "torque-like" response.


----------



## figofspee (Jul 19, 2018)

This is why I always shake my head at the folks who fear high power, unrestricted eBikes on trails, they are useless. The bbshd has the ability to be slowed down in order to make it functional on mountain bike trails, and it works quite well. Even a Levo felt too powerful on its highest setting for functional, technical mountain biking. Riding at high power is tiring for both the battery and the rider, in addition to it being frustrating.


----------



## JVG1967 (Feb 22, 2014)

highroad 2 said:


> For 2 years I have been riding with a guy that bought a turn key bike from Luna.
> It is a Giant full suspension Mt Bike assisted with a BBSHD Ludicrous.
> 
> I rode it yesterday without the throttle and was very disappointed in the power delivery.
> ...


It can be tuned out with the BBSHD programming cable and software. Easy fix.


----------



## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

All I can tell you my battery on my BBSHD last way longer than my Brose.


----------



## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

figofspee said:


> This is why I always shake my head at the folks who fear high power, unrestricted eBikes on trails, they are useless. The bbshd has the ability to be slowed down in order to make it functional on mountain bike trails, and it works quite well. Even a Levo felt too powerful on its highest setting for functional, technical mountain biking. Riding at high power is tiring for both the battery and the rider, in addition to it being frustrating.


You might have a point. I hadn't thought about the power settings but when I am on single track I am never very high in power settings and rarely use throttle except to start the bike from a dismount while going uphill. Get the power very high and the bike does get punchy and frustrating. 
I'm sure there are guys out there that can really take advantage of the power but they have to be the exception rather than the rule. 
High power is nice to beat a thunderstorm to a dry spot on a multi-use bike path. High power is also nice if you happen to be at an ORV play spot close to the parking lot.


----------



## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Agree about power and maybe that's why I'm satisfied with this setup; seldom use higher than level "3" (of 9) and my wife seldom "1" (of 5), so we need to pedal about as hard as when on MTB's. It's just a different experience and the variety makes the experience(s) more fun (for us).


----------



## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

fos'l said:


> Agree about power and maybe that's why I'm satisfied with this setup; seldom use higher than level "3" (of 9) and my wife seldom "1" (of 5), so we need to pedal about as hard as when on MTB's. It's just a different experience and the variety makes the experience(s) more fun (for us).


I reprogramed my 52v BBSHD. I wanted more choices at the lower levels where I am mostly at. I reprogramed the first 5 levels to 5% jumps in power verses the 10% jumps the kit was delivered at. The first 7 levels are below 750 watts while the last two jump from 750 watts to 1000 then unlimited up to 1600 watts. The first 6 levels are limited to 20 mph, 
I like this setup much more and can always select a smooth power level to match other riders or go the speeds I want at the analog power input I am willing to put in.


----------



## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

PierreR said:


> *I reprogramed my 52v BBSHD.* I wanted more choices at the lower levels where I am mostly at. I reprogramed the first 5 levels to 5% jumps in power verses the 10% jumps the kit was delivered at. The first 7 levels are below 750 watts while the last two jump from 750 watts to 1000 then unlimited up to 1600 watts. The first 6 levels are limited to 20 mph,
> I like this setup much more and can always select a smooth power level to match other riders or go the speeds I want at the analog power input I am willing to put in.


I've have 2 BSSHD 52 V setups and I'm thinking of tweaking the power levels also. Did you use the programming cable and software or the Luna black box? Thanks


----------



## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

blcman said:


> I've have 2 BSSHD 52 V setups and I'm thinking of tweaking the power levels also. Did you use the programming cable and software or the Luna black box? Thanks


I used the computer and programing cable to program it. It only takes 5 minutes to make changes once you know how. Longer to set up than do it.
Luna has pretty good details on the software. Easy enough for this Gerry to do it.


----------



## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

PierreR said:


> I used the computer and programing cable to program it. It only takes 5 minutes to make changes once you know how. Longer to set up than do it.
> Luna has pretty good details on the software. Easy enough for this Gerry to do it.


Thanks pieerr, that's what I thought. 
Just ordered the cable from Luna and down loaded the software.


----------



## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

JVG1967 said:


> It can be tuned out with the BBSHD programming cable and software. Easy fix.


This post, number 6 is the correct response to the original poster. I went in and played around with it till I got a combination that I really liked. If you don't play with things in the programming, you don't know what effect they have and have a harder time tuning things to you liking.


----------



## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

PierreR said:


> This post, number 6 is the correct response to the original poster. I went in and played around with it till I got a combination that I really liked. If you don't play with things in the programming, you don't know what effect they have and have a harder time tuning things to you liking.


Can't wait for my programmable cable to arrive! I can see how a few tweaks to the power bands will make my bike a little bit better and easier for when my bros get to ride them!


----------



## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

figofspee said:


> This is why I always shake my head at the folks who fear high power, unrestricted eBikes on trails, they are useless.


Of course, they're no fun at all, I'd rather go to the dentist than do this:






Yep, no one is riding high powered ebikes on mtb trails, what madman would?






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BY...yb6iF0oJA7VdT6_bWXO4orPyh nXIIJtex6YOfd1O2uU


----------



## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

^That dude seems to have a hard time keeping it on the trail


----------



## figofspee (Jul 19, 2018)

Sorry you went through all the work of finding videos, none of which are tight, twisty, technical, rocky riding as my post was referring too. Unrestricted eBikes are fast and fun on road like surfaces though, and hotel pools are usually filled with water.
https://youtu.be/Am3FjwsNqXc


----------



## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Some have managed to procure moped licenses for SurRon "bikes" in CA, and are allowed to ride on the same roads (dirt or street) as street legal ICE vehicles. I've never seen one on an MTB trail here.


----------



## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Harryman said:


> Of course, they're no fun at all, I'd rather go to the dentist than do this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting an E-dirtbike. The Sur Ron doesn't even have pedals and definitely doesn't belong on mountain bike trails.

My friend on an ebike recently did here around Palm Springs, CA. Palm Canyon Epic ride and a Sur Ron bike tried to get on the shuttle. The shuttle driver stop him dead in his track, then the guy tried to get the other ebikers to back him up. They all said, dude that's a dirt bike, not an Ebike and mocked him. The Sur Ron guy was pissed, grab the motorcycle ramp and pushed his E-dirtbike back into the truck and left!


----------



## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

mtbbiker said:


> Thanks for posting an E-dirtbike. The Sur Ron doesn't even have pedals and definitely doesn't belong on mountain bike trails.
> 
> My friend on an ebike recently did here around Palm Springs, CA. Palm Canyon Epic ride and a Sur Ron bike tried to get on the shuttle. The shuttle driver stop him dead in his track, then the guy tried to get the other ebikers to back him up. They all said, dude that's a dirt bike, not an Ebike and mocked him. The Sur Ron guy was pissed, grab the motorcycle ramp and pushed his E-dirtbike back into the truck and left!


LOL, that's awesome. Glad they stood their ground.


----------



## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

I just installed mine this weekend so I have limited experience. I agree the lag is annoying, but in just a little bit of riding I started to get used it. I definitely liked it best on the first setting. 

If you pedal backwards it shuts off immediately.


----------



## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

I appreciate everyone’s response to my “disappointment” in how the BBSHD rides, especially the momentary surge when you stop pedaling.
It’s good to know that pedaling backwards stops the power.

Otherwise the BBSHD has lots going for it. Cost, quiet, reliability, ease to install


----------



## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

mtbbiker said:


> Thanks for posting an E-dirtbike. The Sur Ron doesn't even have pedals and definitely doesn't belong on mountain bike trails.
> 
> My friend on an ebike recently did here around Palm Springs, CA. Palm Canyon Epic ride and a Sur Ron bike tried to get on the shuttle. The shuttle driver stop him dead in his track, then the guy tried to get the other ebikers to back him up. They all said, dude that's a dirt bike, not an Ebike and mocked him. The Sur Ron guy was pissed, grab the motorcycle ramp and pushed his E-dirtbike back into the truck and left!


It ships at 750w, add a pedal kit and it's class 2 legal.

https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-pedal-system/


----------



## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Come on Harryman, I ride my e bike all the time and even I would say to somebody with a legal Sur-Ron. " That there's a dirt bike son. It don't belong here or on the road." If I owned one there is no way I would try to convince somebody it wasn't a dirt bike. 

Perception is reality and you have to change that in the subconscious. Its gotta look like a bicycle or I ain't takin it on no single track or multipurpose trail. That there's a dirt bike.


----------

