# Mountain Bikers are Jerks



## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

Sorry for the broad brush but as long as bad bicyclist behavior is a common occurance we are all going to be viewed as jerks by other user groups. 

Yesterday I was following a random rider who failed to yield to oncoming walkers sending them off a steep enbankment while desperately clinging to their dog so it wouldn't get clobbered. 

Recently, a long time Forest Service employee told me a story about how a mountain biker clobbered him in Corner Canyon. The downhill rider was out of control, and blamed the Forest Service worker for the collision. A month later the fellow's shoulder was still injured and he claims that he will never go to CC again.

This problem doesn't seem to be getting better. We need to fix bad cycling behavior, as it reflects negatively on all riders.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I guess it's regional. Most of the riders where I live are brand new (that's Scot's slang for good by the way).


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

Every crowd has jerks in it, come across hikers that should not be on the trail, runners as well.

People suck, nothing new.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

A hiker is just another obstacle to clear when I'm in the ZONE.


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

#2 
I wonder what causes regions to vary; is it signage, lack of races, strava blackouts, or just better people? 

#3
Nah, people are good when encouraged to be good. I don't come across dangerous hikers. The problem is mountain biking culture glorifys dangerous behavior and racer mentality.

#4 
good illustration of the problem at hand


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

haha...hikers and equestrians can be the biggest douchebags in the woods. Maybe you haven't experienced it yet...but they are out there in force.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I take offense to that. I view myself as more of an asshole. However, I treat being an ambassador to our sport as if it were my job. Fellow mountainbikers in my presence that are jeks can find out just how big of an asshole I can be. Fortunately I don't encounter all these jerks. 99.999% of my trail encounters are pleasant. I think there's something to that regional thing.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I've yet to encounter a jerk on a bike in the woods. Couple jerks on the road. I don't ride around areas with horses but have come across them on the road and they were decent. Hikers/walkers in the woods have never been outwardly jerks but it's not uncommon to get that look of "why are you on MY trails?". But other than that...not much to report around my parts.


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## kilo19 (May 23, 2018)

So lets start a movement...(been watching/reading for a while, first time post) I saw a vid the other day of a MTBr that said pack out more then you pack in...Doing my fair share of hiking/backpacking I try my best to do just that. Sucks when "people" trash the place up. When I come thru a campsite I'll ask the park rangers, or attendants where the closest trash can is so I can lighten my pack...They kinda look at my like why would I pick up trash, I just tell them that I'm making the trails a little cleaner.

After watching that guys video ("trailfeatures", only watched a couple vids, don't know his video style, ethics etc...) but that got me thinking, yea I think I will start doing that...at least where/when I can.

People will see this and hopefully change there idea of MTBrs.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Not to make excuses, but at least in the areas that I've lived in mountain bikers are the ones that are actually taking care of the trails that those runners/hikers/etc use. From my empirical data, a good number of walkers/hikers are only good for leaving trash on the trail, blocking the trail, vandalizing the trails. 
I agree that the Strava-bros or WCDH-bros do need a reality check that they're not on a chosed trail at a race and have to learn to share the trail and dial it back.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

It’s not so much being a d*ck on trail around other users as it is lack of education. 

New’er riders just don’t know what proper etiquette is when they encounter hikers and horses on trail. 

I know I have been on a ride and run into my wife ridnger her horse....stopped to chat, only to have a Mtn biker just blast by like we weren’t even there. I think they just don’t know how to handle the situation because no one ever taught them. Granted there is always gonna be that rider that is all about themselves, thus not giving a crap about the other users. 

Around here, cyclists are the bottom of the food chain. Most encounters by the different user groups are pleasant. But there are always going to be the 1% that proves to be the problems. 

However if you actually wanna see the worst of Mtn bikers....go out and hike the trails you ride....see it from the perspective of the other users.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Education is a good start. Post up some trail rules, trail manners at the trail head kiosks. IMBA has one.


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## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

From what I've seen, the biggest factor in "jerkiness" seems to be the strength/connectedness/values of the local riding community. Goes for any user group really. More rules won't help if there's no incentive to follow them. Bring everyone into the fold and let social pressures do their thing. You'll still have a few jerks though; there are plenty of antisocial people out there.

Also remember, people are much more likely to remember negative experiences which can make things seem worse than they really are.



Linktung said:


> This problem doesn't seem to be getting better. We need to fix bad cycling behavior, as it reflects negatively on all riders.


Want to really do something about it (vs complaining on the Internet)? Organize and lead a weekly/bi-weekly group ride at your local trails while demonstrating proper trail etiquette. Especially for newer riders. Best thing you can do is get involved and start making a difference locally.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

I think this is what happens when snow boarders take up mountain biking.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

I ride like a d!ck because of STRAVA


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## RadRayven (May 1, 2018)

I think there are a few bad apples in every sport/activity but at least in my area (St Louis) the only reason most of the local trails exist is because the local mountain bike club works with the parks department to sustainably design, create and maintain them.


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## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

Its regional.

I ride mostly Midwest and South. Generally people are nice. There are few jerks, but only a few. If the trail is shared, you usually get "hi" and smiles.

I rode in California once... Holy balls, it was like everyone, hikers and bikers, did a line of coke and then got kicked in the balls. No one seemed happy.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I ride in Central Ohio mostly, and the only real "jerkiness" I experience are older people walking dogs on the BIKE trails. I have never seen a biker be a d-bag on the bbike trails. We do have some local multi use trrails in the parks in town, and that is where there is more babd confrontation, and it happens to and from all parties...d head bikers; d head walkers; d head runners...and it is mostly just a "I am in my own world" kind of mentality. They almost always have ear buds in (runners; some of the bikers) or are walking ...IN THE WOODS... face in cell phone...again, this is a LIFE condition <- these people are like this where ever they are, not just on the trails

I always am diplomatic, except for the self- absorbed ones...then I do usually pass a bit close, or make them "come back to reality" in some way. And usually warn them to "keep their eyes up" for other users. Usually met with a blank stare or a half smile or smirk


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## Clayncedar (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm sort of between Philly and New York.

Can confirm jerk mtbrs exist.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Linktung said:


> #2
> I wonder what causes regions to vary; is it signage, lack of races, strava blackouts, or just better people?


None of the above, it's directly proportional to population density.


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

Glad people in Idaho are nice... In CA, the MTBers were all friendly, roadies were stuck up, hikers were always pleasant, and the horse people made me hate horses in general. Lets ride our horses down the middle of a public, paved road at 4 mph, and yell at anyone who would DARE to prefer going around rather than wait an hour to go half a mile. Blegh.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

.....


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

There are tools everywhere!

Just look at mtbr o_0

'Born to ride!'


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Can't argue that they are not out there but my ride days, times and places are likely not representative of the norm or the scope of rider density. Just fortunate in that respect.


Still, I say that the mtb'er jerk really doesn't represent mtb as much as just another soul who's an ass in his/her car, the grocery aisle or on a motorcycle. 
All we can do is outnumber them as good ambassadors and show the way it's done.


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## Oldfatbaldguy (Nov 4, 2010)

Interesting story: local trails opened in a state rec area in 2011 to much fanfare and media coverage. Weekends were busy, weekdays less so. I imagine its like that everywhere.

I was about 3rd or 4th from front of a group of 7 riders on Sunday afternoon when we encountered a young couple on blanket out in the woods. They had to have hiked at least 1/4 mile to get to their spot. He stood up, yelling...oblivious to his lack of attire, while she wrapped herself in the blanket.

We were above a grassy creekbank with at least enough dappled shade for 3 or 4 amorous adventurers; it also enjoyed limited views from the trail: locals know it well...or so we believed.

One of our party dryly suggested the adventurous couple repair to the creekbank, where the soft grass and dappled shade would be more romantic. 

Then we left.

I'm sure the lovers thought we were jerks!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I have never run into lovers in the act. Have honestly run into more homeless people or drug addicts "in the act" of getting high. Was chased by a group of "gang members" one time years ago. Don't ride that trail anymore b/c it is known for incidents.

On our local-yokel shared trails, the "old guy with a dog and a walking stick" types are the grumpiest. Runners are usually cool if you let them know you are coming. The other bikers are all schlubs like me, so there is never usually attitude there.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

garcia said:


> Glad people in Idaho are nice... In CA, the MTBers were all friendly, roadies were stuck up, hikers were always pleasant, and the horse people made me hate horses in general. Lets ride our horses down the middle of a public, paved road at 4 mph, and yell at anyone who would DARE to prefer going around rather than wait an hour to go half a mile. Blegh.


Horse people are the worst by far. Let's park on the side of a public road and then hold a conversation in the middle of the road about our obsolete money pits and totally ignore vehicle traffic trying to get through!

Then spread poo everywhere and pretend they're doing you a favor.

Horses, not even once.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I have never run into lovers in the act.


You're missing out. It's always great for a laugh at someone else's expense.

The jerk riders are out there. I've encountered a few over the years. Most folks are cool. I don't feel for a second that education is a problem. Most new riders genuinely want to have a good time and be respectful and they pick up the necessary nuances quickly.

The jerks are always jerks, IMO. They're selfish in other aspects of their lives, too. A tight local community can help keep this in check because it's harder for those riders to "blend into the crowd" so to speak, but it won't eliminate it. One helpful way to address the problem is to call them out to someone who has some pull over them. If they've got identifying marks (a team kit, sponsor/employer logos, etc), that gives you a relatively easy way to go up the food chain. One group of jerks I encountered on the trail happened to shuttle out of a van with a Trek logo. Buddy of mine posted publicly about the incident on Trek's Facebook page (with a pic of the van). We rode by an hour or two later and they were sitting by the van getting an earful from someone on speakerphone. We smiled and waved as we rode by - it was a VERY quiet Monday on the trails that day and they probably saw nobody else but us (they were the only others we saw all day, too).

And yeah, lots of trail users (especially compressed onto a small trail network) and a high population will result in more encounters (including negative ones).

I, too, have had more negative encounters with other user groups. People who just don't want to share space with others. Hikers who just can't tolerate the presence of bikes, in particular. Haven't had many negative encounters with horse riders, but my encounters with horse riders have been pretty limited (even though I do a LOT of riding on trails that permit them, I see very few of them).


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Linktung said:


> Yesterday I was following a random rider who failed to yield to oncoming walkers sending them off a steep enbankment while desperately clinging to their dog so it wouldn't get clobbered.


Clearly your fault. Stop following so close. You probably freaked them out and they were just trying to get away from you.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Harold said:


> You're missing out. It's always great for a laugh at someone else's expense.
> 
> The jerk riders are out there. I've encountered a few over the years. Most folks are cool. I don't feel for a second that education is a problem. Most new riders genuinely want to have a good time and be respectful and they pick up the necessary nuances quickly.
> 
> ...


Good points.

Many of us see the jerk mentality playing out, even those always stirring up some drama on the posts or threads. 
I don't think of them as jerk mountain bikers but just a Jerk. They are not (in my mind) poisoning the community per se' but just acting out in their way for attention or some internal sense of Lordship or feeling of Supreme Power.

I usually get a good laugh at them for such juvenile outing themselves but I do have to admit, I'm certain some of them do appear to others as if they represent the entire endeavor of mtb culture. Unfortunately, a result of their association to an otherwise healthy, intelligent outdoor escape that might otherwise prove to correct miswiring.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

noapathy said:


> Clearly your fault. Stop following so close. You probably freaked them out and they were just trying to get away from you.


Wait a second,,, are you saying this rider shouldn't enjoy putting on the pressure to create these episodes of entertaining viewership ? 
Mountain biking is supposed to be fun !

How can you insinuate it must be victimless ?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bachman1961 said:


> Good points.
> 
> Many of us see the jerk mentality playing out, even those always stirring up some drama on the posts or threads.
> I don't think of them as jerk mountain bikers but just a Jerk. They are not (in my mind) poisoning the community per se' but just acting out in their way for attention or some internal sense of Lordship or feeling of Supreme Power.
> ...


When people are able to blend into a crowd, they become "that asshole mountain biker" rather than "Bill was an ass to me on the trail" and that makes a pretty significant difference when the asshollery is reported to the land manager. One thing I've noticed is that so many mountain bikers are willing to ignore blatantly illegal behavior. I've seen it on local forums/Facebook groups for years. People report the illegal activity on the forum/group, but when asked if they called the police, they deflect and say no. Even when we're talking about stuff that's very dangerous - people hunting in a small urban park where no hunting is permitted, and where there's a very high trail density and lots of user traffic. Where any stray bullet has a high risk of striking someone. As one example of an actual situation. So I definitely see that a lot of mt bikers are definitely not the sorts of people to call and complain to the LM about an encounter with a nasty hiker, horse rider, or even another mtb rider, when there was nothing illegal about the encounter. So the land managers hear a preponderance of negative reports ABOUT mt bikers (because the hikers and horse riders DEFINITELY complain about us), but relatively little FROM mt bikers.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

CycleKrieg said:


> .........
> 
> I rode in California once... Holy balls, it was like everyone, hikers and bikers, did a line of coke and then got kicked in the balls. No one seemed happy.


The hikers out here are angry because MTBers exist. The MTBers out here are grumpy because hikers, equestrians, conservationists, etc. all hate us and yet we have to share trails with them. Of course, being from Va I'm inclined to think it could just be a Ca thing.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

bachman1961 said:


> Wait a second,,, are you saying this rider shouldn't enjoy putting on the pressure to create these episodes of entertaining viewership ?
> Mountain biking is supposed to be fun !
> 
> How can you insinuate it must be victimless ?


This is MTB, not MTV (reality TV nonsense).

Far worse than that, what's going on with your punctuation? Three commas and a space between each punctuation mark the end of a sentence? I've now realized it's not OP's fault, but yours. Clearly you've antagonized people and it's finally starting to manifest in the general public's behavior.


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## L. Ron Hoover (Feb 1, 2006)

Oldfatbaldguy said:


> Interesting story: local trails opened in a state rec area in 2011 to much fanfare and media coverage. Weekends were busy, weekdays less so. I imagine its like that everywhere.
> 
> I was about 3rd or 4th from front of a group of 7 riders on Sunday afternoon when we encountered a young couple on blanket out in the woods. They had to have hiked at least 1/4 mile to get to their spot. He stood up, yelling...oblivious to his lack of attire, while she wrapped herself in the blanket.
> 
> ...


I was on my way up to a local trail to do some building, chainsaw in hand when I disturbed a pair of lovers who were up on a rock outcrop, in plain view really. I think I scared the bejesus out of them. Wish I had thought of starting the saw. 

Around here conflict is minimal owing to a small population and lots of public (Crown) land that is not tightly managed. There are occasionally conflicts with hikers on the main coastal trail. The trail association has "banned" mountain bikers from trails that A. Are traditional routes between coastal communities that have existed for hundreds of years; B Were being used by MTBers long before the trail association existed. However, they actually have no authority to do that on the 95% of the trail that is on public land so we ignore it. I have been yelled at by hikers on that trail and I always make a point of stopping and explaining that I have been riding there since before the "official" trail existed and that the trail association's so-called ban on mountain bikers is illegal and not enforceable. There may be some light at the end of that tunnel as the association now has many members who ride and they are reviewing their policies.

The biggest conflict I've seen lately is between all the users of a local trail and some guy who has been snaring animals up there. For a while he was setting large traps (Fox maybe?) right in the middle of the trail. This is inside city limits and only 5 minutes walk from a populated area. Of course, other users, including MTBers, took them out of there which really upset the guy. He put up threatening notes saying that there were trail cams and that it was illegal to move a trap. I called the wildlife division and they said that yes, it was legal for him to trap in that area and that it is illegal to tamper with traps. They also said that it was really bad form for trappers to block trails and that if they knew who was setting the traps they would go have a chat with them. I don't know if that actually happened or if the guy just gave up, but I haven't seen any evidence of traps up there in the last year or so.

I go out of my way to be friendly to other users (usually just hikers, very few horses around here) and so do most of the other local riders as far as I can tell. I'm sure there are a few jerks but they seem to be few and far between so far.


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I always am diplomatic, except for the self- absorbed ones...then I do usually pass a bit close, or make them "come back to reality" in some way. And usually warn them to "keep their eyes up" for other users. Usually met with a blank stare or a half smile or smirk


This really isn't doing us any favours... it's not for us to judge people and make a close pass or scare them just because they're on their phone or have earbuds in. If someone is absorbed in something else we ought to give them an extra wide berth and plenty of warning. I'm a big fan of Timber bells for trails where there are lots of hikers.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

scatterbrained said:


> The hikers out here are angry because MTBers exist. The MTBers out here are grumpy because hikers, equestrians, conservationists, etc. all hate us and yet we have to share trails with them. Of course, being from Va I'm inclined to think it could just be a Ca thing.


The equestrians don't count though because everyone hates those guys and their obsolete forms of transportation.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Schulze said:


> The equestrians don't count though because everyone hates those guys and their obsolete forms of transportation.


No freakin wonder mtbers can't get any respect.


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## prlundberg (May 7, 2004)

Some of it is just the nature of mountain biking. It's fun to go fast, and bikes are relatively quiet and hard to hear coming. That's a recipe for confrontation. On shared trails you need to always assume somebody may be just around the corner. There's a time and place to go all out, you don't need to do it all the time.


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

Linktung said:


> #2
> I wonder what causes regions to vary; is it signage, lack of races, strava blackouts, or just better people?
> 
> #3
> ...


#3 Full of crap.

Fixed it for you.


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

Jerks are everywhere in every activity. Many people think rules don't apply to them. 

Where we ride, MTBRs are much more considerate than hikers/walkers. Some trail systems are littered with Starbucks cups and bags of dog crap. I've yet to run into a MTBR riding with an iced coffee in one hand and we all know MTBRs don't pick up after their dogs, but that's another story!


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## IntheBush (May 31, 2008)

I've known plenty of really fast mountain bikers..
In fact I get tired of picking them and their broken bikes up out of the middle of the trail.

They just can't leave their ego where it belongs.

Most of 'em have a short career, and plenty of medical bills.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Regional variance...

Where I live (in the Washington, DC metro area) and commute/ride all over the place in DC/MD/PA/VA/WV, roadies are the biggest arses of them all!


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## stevenfallover (Jun 5, 2004)

I think this tread is more relavant than ever lately.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Bumped into a guy one day running on some gnar we were shredding & he'd sprained his ankle.

Good steep, janky single track is where it's at... Somewhere horses & hikers won't venture.

Sent from my Nokia X6


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

I got the stink eye riding this weekend from a family that I approached slowly and said, “Excuse me, can I slide on by real fast please?” Their look of distain was very evident. I said thanks and rode on by and wished them a good day hiking the trails. I should’ve mentioned, I personally built them by hand ...


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

stevenfallover said:


> I think this tread is more relavant than ever lately.


I can only speak for So Ca area, here we just have so many different trail users: hikers, bikers/ebikers, equestrian, runners, bird watchers, etc... I started biking over 30yrs ago and lived right next to Aliso Woods Park in Orange County. Back then, we practically had the park to ourselves. Now if you want make sure to have a good ride you need to start at the crack of dawn or go towards the end of the day.


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## ironhippy (Nov 21, 2017)

This is why I think the downhill riders must yield to uphill traffic makes sense.

If you are forced to ride downhill in such a way that you have to be able to stop at all the blind corners (in case you need to yield to uphill traffic) you will be in control of your bike.

I'm lucky in my region that we have purpose built mountain bike trails that rarely get hikers and the hikers we do get understand they are on mountain bike trails. I still don't think it's wise to blast downhill without the ability to stop unless you are on a closed course or have someone spotting for you.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

roughster said:


> I got the stink eye riding this weekend from a family that I approached slowly and said, "Excuse me, can I slide on by real fast please?" Their look of distain was very evident. I said thanks and rode on by and wished them a good day hiking the trails. I should've mentioned, I personally built them by hand ...


I've certainly encountered that family on multi use trails before. It's strange attitude to not allow others to use the trail as they see fit, when they see fit to use the trail how they would like to use it. All you can do is be polite and hope that someday they might get it...


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## SoDakSooner (Nov 23, 2005)

dbhammercycle said:


> I've certainly encountered that family on multi use trails before. It's strange attitude to not allow others to use the trail as they see fit, when they see fit to use the trail how they would like to use it. All you can do is be polite and hope that someday they might get it...


It's that way on our trails now too. Little do the hikers know that almost all the trails in our system were built by mountain bikers (and motorcycle riders, who lost out). It is hard to get a good fast ride in any more with all the other trail users. No complaints as it is public land and I run and hike there as well, but gotta be really careful now. Used to be just mountain bikers, drug addicts, homeless people, and people hooking up. Times have changed for sure.

That said, have never had a trail conflict and always try and be polite to every one out there. Usually get the same in return.


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

ironhippy said:


> This is why I think the downhill riders must yield to uphill traffic makes sense.
> 
> If you are forced to ride downhill in such a way that you have to be able to stop at all the blind corners (in case you need to yield to uphill traffic) you will be in control of your bike.
> 
> I'm lucky in my region that we have purpose built mountain bike trails that rarely get hikers and the hikers we do get understand they are on mountain bike trails. I still don't think it's wise to blast downhill without the ability to stop unless you are on a closed course or have someone spotting for you.


If it takes me an hour to get to the top I'm not rushing my way down in 5 minutes.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

mtbbiker said:


> I can only speak for So Ca area, here we just have so many different trail users: hikers, bikers/ebikers, equestrian, runners, bird watchers, etc... I started biking over 30yrs ago and lived right next to Aliso Woods Park in Orange County. Back then, we practically had the park to ourselves. Now if you want make sure to have a good ride you need to start at the crack of dawn or go towards the end of the day.


you can only speak for the trails you ride in SoCal.....

I have ridden a number of different trail systems in SoCal and only run into entitled "pedestrians" once, that was an Pensquitos Canyon down in San Diego about 12-14 years ago. My local spot in Oceanside and other spots I have ridden frequently in La Costa, Escondido and the Laguna Mountains have always resulted in pleasant exchanges with hikers and runners and the occasional Horseback rider.

What this boils down to is the exceptions, not the majority. There are a minority of MTBers who are rude and inconsiderate, there are a minority of hikers, trail runners, dog walkers and horseback riders who also fall into that category. No one documents every single good trail interaction, but we as humans are quick to point out a single bad interaction.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Klurejr said:


> you can only speak for the trails you ride in SoCal.....
> 
> I have ridden a number of different trail systems in SoCal and only run into entitled "pedestrians" once, that was an Pensquitos Canyon down in San Diego about 12-14 years ago. My local spot in Oceanside and other spots I have ridden frequently in La Costa, Escondido and the Laguna Mountains have always resulted in pleasant exchanges with hikers and runners and the occasional Horseback rider.
> 
> What this boils down to is the exceptions, not the majority. There are a minority of MTBers who are rude and inconsiderate, there are a minority of hikers, trail runners, dog walkers and horseback riders who also fall into that category. No one documents every single good trail interaction, but we as humans are quick to point out a single bad interaction.


Think you have an absolutely valid point here. Anecdotal is, well, anecdotal!


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Mountain bikers are great. Hikers are great.... horse people are wild degenerates, and the hikers and bikers should team up and wage a grueling, bitter war!


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

Well..I have seen so many interactions like this between:

jocks and motorheads
waterskiers and fisherpeople
kayacks and powerboaters
gunners and archers
pwc'rs and everyboby else on the water
autos and roadbikers
labor and management
..and so many more. Why do we seem to enjoy adversarial relationships? It seems that there are so many who feel empty without someone to complain about. Maybe its an evolutionary holdover..donno. Anybody?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

1niceride said:


> Well..I have seen so many interactions like this between:
> 
> jocks and motorheads
> waterskiers and fisherpeople
> ...


Its basically always that one group is trying to take away from the other group.

I cant recall mountain bikers ever funneling millions of dollars to prevent anyones public trail access. However, this is absolutely the standard for equestrians, and we certainly have lost, and continue to lose the basic right to enjoy public land due to them. We have a significant volunteer base whos willing to dig and maintain our very own trails (to avoid the lie that we're a danger to other users), and those groups still prevent us from doing so.

Overall, we'd love to actually work with other trail users for the mutual benefit of all of us. We're overwhelmingly prevented from doing so by equestrian groups who basically dont want us to exist.q


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

One Pivot said:


> Its basically always that one group is trying to take away from the other group.
> 
> I cant recall mountain bikers ever funneling millions of dollars to prevent anyones public trail access. However, this is absolutely the standard for equestrians, and we certainly have lost, and continue to lose the basic right to enjoy public land due to them. We have a significant volunteer base whos willing to dig and maintain our very own trails (to avoid the lie that we're a danger to other users), and those groups still prevent us from doing so.
> 
> Overall, we'd love to actually work with other trail users for the mutual benefit of all of us. We're overwhelmingly prevented from doing so by equestrian groups who basically dont want us to exist.q


So silly...horses beat the piss out of the trails and leave crap all over. They know that but argue the opposite position expecting others to give way. Just because one has an advantage over others the facts don't change. Maybe I'm old school in an age of being disingenuous to keep an advantage over others.

...and the new server sucks..took 3 tries to get post to stick...


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

One Pivot said:


> Its basically always that one group is trying to take away from the other group.
> 
> I cant recall mountain bikers ever funneling millions of dollars to prevent anyones public trail access. However, this is absolutely the standard for equestrians, and we certainly have lost, and continue to lose the basic right to enjoy public land due to them. We have a significant volunteer base whos willing to dig and maintain our very own trails (to avoid the lie that we're a danger to other users), and those groups still prevent us from doing so.
> 
> Overall, we'd love to actually work with other trail users for the mutual benefit of all of us. We're overwhelmingly prevented from doing so by equestrian groups who basically dont want us to exist.


Bikers and hikers outnumber equestrians 50 to 1. A simple vote is all it would take to even the playing field. But then many in government are wealthy and lazy and belong to that 1 out of 50 group. They look after their own interests.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

endo_alley said:


> Bikers and hikers outnumber equestrians 50 to 1. A simple vote is all it would take to even the playing field. But then many in government are wealthy and lazy and belong to that 1 out of 50 group. They look after their own interests.


The horse people outspend us. Feels like we're 500:1 here, and they still get the final say!


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

One Pivot said:


> The horse people outspend us. Feels like we're 500:1 here, and they still get the final say!


Where do they spend the money? How does spending money effect trail use regulations? Seems like votes are worth more than a bank account.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

endo_alley said:


> Where do they spend the money? How does spending money effect trail use regulations? Seems like votes are worth more than a bank account.


Money talks. And influences.

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