# Calling all Ultralight Bikepackers



## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

So I was also inspired by Aarons story. My buddy and I were going to book the SanJuan hut to hut trop from Durango to Moab, but at the last minute decided to cancel and invest instead in ultralight camping gear after reading this amazing story in bike mag. 
I also saw the light and cant wait to explore the possibilities of multiday mtb trips. I live in Colorado and the thought of spending 3-4 days on the Colorado trail would be unbelievable and this is just the tip of the iceberg..

I have been doing a ton of research the past couple of months and wanted to bounce my ideas off some experienced bike packers. 

So I have decided to not purchase a rack or bike bags instead I am going to go with just a pack instead. The 2 packs I have narrowed down are the Golight Vo24 1500ci or the Camelback Alpine Explorer just under 1900ci. Leaning towards the camelback since the volume is larger plus I love the camelbacks I currently own (HAWG and Mule).

Sleeping bag. I do not want to get cold and a good nights sleep would be imperative for Bike packing. My buddy bought the REI Sub Kilo +20 bag and was thinking of getting the same one. On sale right now at REI Very nice bag coming in at 2lbs but there are much lighter bags out there in the 35 – 40 deg range. Seeing how most our rides will be high elevation a warm bag sounds good. 

Sleeping Pad Thermarest 4 season pad self inflating. Seems to pack up pretty small and should also be warm. The idea of not puffing on a mattress at 12,000 ft sounds appealing. 

Bivy. The REI Minimalist bivy. Very light 16oz and fairly water proof. No cover for your face though. The guy and REI said he just puts a small piece of tarp in his bag to cover his face during rain storms. Also at a good price of $99.

Rain Gear: I think Aaron with the right route with the Patagonia Spraymaster rain gear. It seem tailored for cycling and have only heard great things about this rain gear. The only drawback is the price. I am looking at about $500 for jacket and pants. 

I already have a water purifier and the camping stove should be an easy decision. Rei had many good options. 

So any input would be greatly appreciated. I will post some pics of my bike packing adventures from this summer. This will happen.

Jay


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## B.Howard (Sep 1, 2005)

From years of racing sailboats, I can tell you that you will sweat in any piece of rain gear you buy regardless of how expensive or breathable it is. What temperatures are you intending to bike in?


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## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

The summer temps when it is raining are usually in the 60 deg range. If I go up above 10,000 ft the tem can go down to the upper 30s some times. 

Last year I rode in alot in the rain and have some chepo raingear that I got from Performance. Not breathable at all but still did help.


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## B.Howard (Sep 1, 2005)

I'd almost be tempted to skip rain pants, pack tights, and take two jackets. One with good ventilation for riding, and one with better waterproofing for camping. Just my $0.02.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

second the tights vs spray pants thing B.howard said.

Packs, check out the Osprey Talon line of backpacks. I just picked the 44 model (2500 ci) and its AWESOME. Camelbak packs are HEAVY.


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## davidws (Feb 25, 2007)

As far as the bivy goes, i dont know how tree coverage is up there but i have a hennessy hammock, they come in at about 2lbs and 160 bucks but it keeps you off the ground and it gives the best nights sleep i have ever had camping, can get kinda cool though without the ground to insulate but in the Ga, who cares.


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## ionsmuse (Jul 14, 2005)

Jaydude_72 said:


> Sleeping bag. I do not want to get cold and a good nights sleep would be imperative for Bike packing. My buddy bought the REI Sub Kilo +20 bag and was thinking of getting the same one.
> 
> Sleeping Pad Thermarest 4 season pad self inflating. Seems to pack up pretty small and should also be warm. The idea of not puffing on a mattress at 12,000 ft sounds appealing.
> 
> ...


You get what you pay for. The REI would I think be fine, but a good down bag will pack smaller, be warmer, and last longer. Western Mountaineering, worth it. You can also wear most of your clothing at night, so you'll get away with a lighter bag than otherwise.

I find a Thermarest 3 to be fine for anything above 0 (f.). Very compact.

Don't know about the bivy, but you want VERY waterproof. I use a Bibler and it is absolutely bombproof. I've awakened with puddles in my lap and been totally dry.

Patagonia raingear is the stuff, best DWR (durable water repellent) coating in the industry, which is what keeps the fabric from soaking through. Again, worth it long term.

I'd ditch the filter and, for shorter summer trips, the stove. Too much weight and especially bulk. The later is often more important to minimize than the former.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

The REI sub kilo is a down bag. Is it not good?


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

TCW said:


> The REI sub kilo is a down bag. Is it not good?


I'd also been eyeing that model while they have their sale on, it looks good to me. If your buddy already has it what does he say?


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Let's see what Jaydude says.


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## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

He just got the Rei sub kilo just a few days ago and it has not yet been field tested. When I checked it out it did seem durable and well put together. When I picked it up it did not seem super light. It comes in at just over 2 lbs and it is a down filled bag.

i have checked out the Western Mountaineeg bag and it looks sweet. +32 bag at just over1lb.However it looks kinda delicate. Is this the case?

I will check out that pack bhsavery. thx


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## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

Will that hennesy hammock fit somebody tall. I am 6' 2 "


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

2nd Western Mountaineering(WM)..if money isn't an issue. Nothing better then down in size(compressibility), loft, weight per volumn, longevity(syn looses its loft much faster over time) ..and nothing is better then WM imho(argubly). Just don't get down wet, which is easy if your not dumb. I used to be a hardcore LW backpacker(5yr moderator at outdoorreview.com and know charles at the LWbackpacker.com site) logging 6000+ miles in another life. My full summer/transistion load is 9.8lbs total including tent(SD Lightyear 1 man with custom carbon poles, or Black Diamond Betamid, or 4x8' Intergal Designs sil-nylon tarp/MtnHardware bivy combo), bag(WM Highlite), stove(3oz. Snow Peak Power Giga) and fuel, chair kit(13oz. ThermUltralight), pad(16oz ThermUltralight self inflat 60", ti cookware(titanium spoon, coffee cup, 1ltr pot, skillet), 4 light syn layers(waterprooff layers are Marmot Dryclime fwiw), filter, etc...less water and food. The bag used in this system is the WM Highlite. 40* rating(but I take it to freezing all the time) and weighs just 16oz(1lb) and packs to a nerf football size. All goes into a 1lb 13oz Osprey 1800" summit pack. I can go a week on the AT with in the Fall or Spring. My 3 season/light winter bag is the WM Ultralite rated at 25*(but have had it in down to about 7* with layers on) and weighs only 1lb 8oz. I've used it during 6 day above the treeline mtneering trips in April(lots of snow/ice) in the Co.mtns with no worries. 

I hate bivies by themselves. Can't cook or change in bad weather, plus in real rain, they all leak or build up condensation really bad when its closed up tight. Take a light 16oz bivy bag cover(Mtn Hardware Stormlight), and then use a 10oz Siliconized 5x8 tarp to live under decadently in anything you'll ever encounter doing bike trips. 

Not saying to use all mentioned of course, but just throwing stuff out there. I've also used a combo of this gear to do overnight whitewater trips as well(stashed in the stern of a WW kayak).


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## ionsmuse (Jul 14, 2005)

Jaydude_72 said:


> i have checked out the Western Mountaineeg bag and it looks sweet. +32 bag at just over1lb.However it looks kinda delicate. Is this the case?


Does it need to be? I've never had shell durability issues with a bag, but I also try to avoid sleep-rolling down rock covered hillsides.

Quality down will last longer, that is, keep from loosing its loft. This may or may not be a concern, but a bag like a WM will last a lifetime for an average user.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Dual purpose is the key. H2o proof shell (for riding in and otherwise), and compressable down jacket (wear in the sleeping bag for extra warmth) no need to have more.

If you can handle the taste, skip the filter and go for iodine or other h2o treatment tabs.

Stove wise, you can do a small alcohol burning stove that still lets you have a hot meal/drink, but can be much smaller and lighter than a comercial stove. I've got a MSR Whisperlite, and just tried out a Brasslite stove a few times this last winter while out snowshoing.

http://art.simon.tripod.com/Stoves/

I've got some similar ideas spawning in my head for this summer. :thumbsup: I'll be doing the honkin' big Camelbak combined with something like this on the back of my hardtail. I've already got that exact rack, in use on my commuter, so may as well use it. Figure to have a decent sized bag hanging off the front/bar as well; another something I already have.


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

Here's a link to the holy grail of ultralight backpacking gear and reviews. I've a subscription and it's worth the coin. Tons of good info and brand new ways to spend your money.

Don't pack all your stuff in a camelback/backpack. It's hell on the azz for days on end rides and it hurts your on-bike mobility. Put as much gear on the bike as you can and get a decent sized handlebar bag. Since your offroad riding, keep your bags high so they're above the scrub, water, and schite. I've done backcountry touring both ways, and having the gear on the bike is much more comfortable and keeps you happier. You should end up with something that looks like pic 2 except you won't need the panniers and you can see that even the camelbak is strapped on top of the rack. Pic 1 is how I did it on long unsupported rides (that pic is from about 15-years ago now!). Having good gear you can trust is much more important than having the lightest gear, IMHO.


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## Guest (May 11, 2007)

Jaydude,

Check out the endurance racing forum for some threads discussing multi-day lightweight bike travel. 

I'd recommend going with the full rain gear (jacket and pants). The weather can turn bad pretty quickly in the Colorado high country. Personally, I'd bring light tights and light rain pants.

I second the recommendation of Osprey Talon packs.

I read that you've decided against bike bags or racks. I would still suggest thinking about these. Even a small handlebar bag, and big seatbag would take some load off your back, and still work with (almost) any bike setup. Jandd is one company making good options.

Good luck,

FW


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Also, check out Feathered Friends. I have one of their mid-30 degree bags and a lightweight down vest, both made using epic fabric. Epic is the same stuff black diamond uses in their single-wall tents and is great insurance for your down. Call their retail store and check for closeouts, they had the bag I wanted in a discontinued color for way cheaper than retail. They make all their products in the USA. 

I bike with a GoLite soft-shell jacket. Its ultra-breathable, and kept me relatively dry during a 8 hour ride in the rain last year. Its worth the extra couple ounces to have a shell that actually breathes, most rain jackets would have you soaked by your own sweat in the same conditions.


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## Pooh Bear (May 25, 2006)

I think this is just me, but self inflating thermarests are too heavy. Insulationwise a 10mm thick evazote mat will do the same and weigh half of the puffy mat. Make sure you get some soft eva mat like from exped. Then you can fold it before you roll it and so it won't get too big. If you're expecting real cold nights, then combine your sleeping bag with one of those emergency gold/silver foil blankets. They are usually large enough to have them all around you.

Exped also has a combination of (down) mattress plus sleeping bag. Light and warm!

And if your hauling around a rain jacket. Well, you can always use it for covering your face while being in the bivy bag.

For sleeping mats you may consider a balloonbed. http://www.balloonbed.com/


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## B.Howard (Sep 1, 2005)

frejwilk said:


> I'd recommend going with the full rain gear (jacket and pants). The weather can turn bad pretty quickly in the Colorado high country. Personally, I'd bring light tights and light rain pants.


I'd recommend you take the recommendation of someone like this guy, who has experience with the region, over me.

Personally, however, my legs almost never get cold, regardless of the conditions. So, I would probably be bull-headed, scrimp on the rain pants, and consider spraying my riding tights with some kind of waterproofer.

Honestly though, you can get a lightweight, easily compressible pair of pants, so the difference in lugging them around or not is pretty negligible.


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## buccilli15 (Mar 28, 2007)

If interested I have a Go-lite Den Shelter....$135 shipped..Used 1 time.

PM me.


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## The Fetish (May 11, 2007)

I've done a lot of mtb touring over the last few years here in Colorado and the choice is always the same: How light do I want to go? vs. How comfortable do I want to be? I've pulled my B.O.B trailer loaded with wine and food and I've ridden until I couldn't go any more and just put on my rain jacket and laided down in the middle of the trail. My happy medium is a seatpost rack with my sleeping pad strapped underneath, a compression sack on top with warm clothes, down bag and a micro tent( with tent poles stuffed into the seat tube) and my freeze dried food strapped on the sides. On my back I carry my tools/tubes/pump and a waterfilter in a camelback and rain gear in my jersey pockets, and then I made a cage to fit my kettle/stove on the wattlebottle mounts on the frame. The weight diference for carring a stove and freeze dried food pays off after a few days, and I prefer to carry a water filter rather than tablets because of the taste and the extra time that the tablets take in cold water, which is most water in Colorado.


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## Mynamesrob (Jul 25, 2004)

Jaydude_72 said:


> Will that hennesy hammock fit somebody tall. I am 6' 2 "


Yes. I'm just over 6'2" and it fits me very well. And it's very comfortable but for camping in the mountains, you're definitely going to need some sort of underquilt. At this point in time, since you're not an experienced hammocker (at least I don't think...), you would probably be better off camping in what you know which is probably a tent or bivy.

You may also want to check out the MSR Microzoid. I would personally lean towards that than a bivy. Anyhow, just food for thought.

And don't forget, REI's anniversary sale ends tomorrow (Sunday)!

-Rob


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## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

So what would you suggest for an underquilt?


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm 6'2" and just ordered a Thermarest 4 R and the REI sub kilo bag long. I'd been after a thermarest for a while and couldn't pass on that price. Plus a bunch of other random bits and pieces.


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## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

*Bikepacking becomes reality*

Thanks everybody for your input and inspiration.

So I sold my Stumpjumper and was able to by some ultralight gear from REI while the big sale was going on.

This is what I ended up with and was able to put it to the test over a beautiful spring weekend here in Colorado Springs.

REI Sub Kilo +20 down bag
Hennesy Hammock Ultralight Backpacker
Camelback Alpine Explorer


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## davidws (Feb 25, 2007)

So what did you end up stuffing in there? Especially in the way of food. Great looking set-up by the way. Took me awhile to get my hammock looking that good.


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## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

So the blue stuff sack has the following stuffed inside

Henessy Hammock and Rain Fly
Silk tights and shirt
Fleece hat
Perl Izumi riding jacket
Space Blanket

The grey/brown one has my sleeping bag inside. 

Both fit nicely in my camelback and left plenty of room for food. 

For this trip packed Bagel Sandwitches and non crushable snacks. No cooking on this initial trip.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I have a homemade backpacking quilt that should get me down to 20deg or so and weighs 22oz with the included pillow stuff sack. For a shelter, I use a Henry Shires Cloudburst2 tarptent. It's an absolute palace for 1, but roomy enough for 2 plus a dog. It comes in at about 2.5lb with ti stakes. If I ever started going solo very often, I'd probably go with a hammock, although you need additional insulation underneath you so the weight savings aren't really stellar when you look closely at it. I like some extra comfort at night, so I usually carry a Big Agnes Insulated Air Core mat. To save weight, I could easily go with a closed cell foam pad, though.

I like to carry a pump water filter with a few backup chlorine dioxide tablets (WAY better than iodine...which will probably not be sold for much longer) in case of a broken pump or really suspect water. The pump is heavier and takes more work, but I get clean water sooner and it just tastes better.

Unless I was going REALLY UL, I'd probably be more apt to carry my gear in a trailer than any other way. I've pulled a BOB many miles in the past with heavy trail tools (and even loads of rocks for armoring, coolers full of refreshments, and other stuff) and I like how it handles. I'd probably limit my pack weight to about 15lb tops (mostly water).

One big way to accomplish that would be to find a lighter pack. Find something made from silnylon or dyneema. 

Right now, my weekend kit comes in at 15-16lb without food or water. If I'm especially conscious about food weight, I can keep my total close to 20lb, and that's in a 3lb Osprey pack. I don't think it would be comfortable for biking due to the large hipbelt and beefy suspension.


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## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

For now I am going to stand by my decision to just go with a pack only. I was very heavily considering purchasing either bike bags or a rack but in the end did not want to take anything away from my bike. 

After a full day of wearing my gear and riding it worked out great. The Camel Back was very comfortable and distributed the weight quite nicely overy my back. Not to much weight on the hips and not to much weight on the shoulders. The extra weight slowed down my climbing a bit on the steep tech parts but other than that my riding felt very normal. 

The hennessy hammock was the bomb as far as comfort goes but found out what the insulation issues are all about with hammock camping. For my next trip i will have an underquilt and this should solve any warmth issues. Luckly I brought a space blanket that helped me get through the night. JRB seems to have the best underquilt. Kinda pricey. 

I have not done all the math but my pack with out food/water should be comming in just over 10lbs. I have never been gram counter before.


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## davidws (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah, like i said, the hammock works good in Georgia, If you look on their website there is a seperate thing they sell which includes a pad underneath and is meant for cold weather. its kinda pricey though. where did you find that quilt?


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## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

After reading some reviews this seems to be the way to go, unless I want to make my own.

http://www.jacksrbetter.com/


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## mtnfiend (Feb 26, 2004)

I know this is an older thread but I thought I would breath some new life into it.

Stoves:
I love my SuperCat. $.39 and only 3oz.
https://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html Check Build Instructions for make your own. I tried making one out of a larger tuna can but couldn't the hole configuration right for proper air/fuel ratio.









Other fun stove sites:
https://www.freewebs.com/jasonklass/
I used one of these to punch my holes: https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44060

Shelter:
11oz., 35 sq. ft., combine it with a *carbon fiber* pole at 1.8oz., six 6" Easton stakes at .3oz. each - Total: 14.6oz. $145 optional Tyvek ground cloth 4.5oz. - Total: 19.1 $192
https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=45#









Water Purification/Filtering:
I haven't used this product myself but BackpackingLite seems to be recommending it these days. https://www.klearwater.com/

Packs:
Carousel Design Works makes some pretty sweet looking stuff. I can't seem to get Jeff to return my emails though. I need to try calling. He seems to be getting some pretty good press and may be overwhelmed with orders.

Jadd has some pretty interesting stuff too:
Mountain Handle Pack I (on top of the stem)
https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FMBHP

Mountain Wedge Expandable (under the stem) 
https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FMWEX

Stem Bag Zippered (behind the stem)
https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FSBZ

Frame Pack (um in the frame)
https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FFP

Water Carrier:
I just got this idea looking at a CDR rig. Use one Two Fish velcro water bottle cage on each side of the fork.









Also MSR makes really large bladders for those interested in that stuff. DromLite in 2-4-6 liters.

Sleeping Pad:
This has been mentioned before but IMO the only way to go for sleeping pads are closed cell foam (Ridge-Rest or Z-Rest) as opposed to open cell foam (Therm-A-Rest). They weigh at least half the weight, cost at least half, and will never break, i.e. go flat. If a Therm-A-Rest gets a hole it is worthless. No pad=cold night.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

I thru hiked the Appalachian Trail this year with a Hennessy. For an underquilt, I am going to buy two army surplus poncho liners and make my own for the hammock. They are light and synthetic. The JRB are 200 bills and I have seen them get wet on more than one occasion. We put our hammocks on the ground as when it got cold. I slept "kinda" well in 7 degree weather that way. 
I put my sleeping pad(Prolite 4 short) in the hammock most of the time with my extra cloths on the sides. Worked really well. There is a learning curve with the hammock as you found out. Nothing beats it for comfort. Nothing. BTW, do not use ridge rests or z rests in hammocks. Condensation collects in the dimples. I have seen it many, many times. 
I am going to be doing some mtb touring as well next summer here in New England. Here is my gearlist. Let me know if this sounds right. I am up for other options.
Water: Aquamira
Stove:Jetboil. Can't beat the coffee press and I am always done eating before the alcohol guys are done cooking.
Hennessy Ultralite Hammock
Poncho liner
Osprey Talon 25 with 70oz bladder Lighter and gives you a chance to stop to take a break when you run out.
Seatpost gear holder for sleep gear
Fleece leg warmers-Pearl
Superlight shell-non laminate. Laminates are horrible.
One fleecy type top
My trusty Cloudveil Four Seasons hat.
My cloudveil schoeller shorts 
And of course, crocs. Gotta have crocs.
I think that would just about do it.


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## mtnfiend (Feb 26, 2004)

Another option to the seatpost rack is the Bagman Rack available through Wallingford Bike Parts










There have been some issues with the piece of the rack that connects to the saddle but it appears they have designed a new piece and a new range of sizes. The Bagman racks are pretty darn light and have a huge following with lightweight road tourers.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

I cannot imagine that taking the pounding that mtb touring would throw at it.


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## Straymark (Mar 9, 2006)

The Fetish said:


> My happy medium is a seatpost rack with my sleeping pad strapped underneath, a compression sack on top with warm clothes, down bag and a micro tent( with tent poles stuffed into the seat tube) and my freeze dried food strapped on the sides. On my back I carry my tools/tubes/pump and a waterfilter in a camelback and rain gear in my jersey pockets, and then I made a cage to fit my kettle/stove on the wattlebottle mounts on the frame. The weight diference for carring a stove and freeze dried food pays off after a few days, and I prefer to carry a water filter rather than tablets because of the taste and the extra time that the tablets take in cold water, which is most water in Colorado.


This is similar to the system I use on the Colorado Trail, heavy stuff in my pack and light, bulky stuff on the bike. 
I've also used the REI Sub-kilo quite a bit on winter yurt trips here and it is great, and use a 50 degree bag along with my insulating layer for summer CO Trail bike-camping.
I use a one man REI tent with a little head-room, I'd get sick of a bivy. Mosquitos are a big problem up there during the late summer.
Mark
Mark


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## The Fetish (May 11, 2007)

Here is a picture from last summer's tour, this is day two of a four day self supported off-road tour. The bike is my Moots Mooto-x 29er with the ybb rear suspension. I have a GPS zip-tied to the stem, my Snowpeak gigapower stove and kettle in a homemade bottle cage on the downtube and my coffee/oatmeal cup in the cage on the seattube.


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