# Has this become the MagicShine Forum?



## RichardL (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm really happy that most of you guys like your MagicShines but they are not the only light available on the market. No matter what the question on this forum the inevitable answer is "Buy a MagicShine"!
Lots of my friends have bought them, from Deal Extreme, and in fairness most are very pleased but they are not perfect! Quite a few arrived DOA, there is no way their output is 900 lumens and the build quality and finish is not great! We ride twice a week off-road at night typically in damp, Irish conditions, and already a couple of sets are giving problems!
It seems to me the bottom line is that MagicShines are amazing lights for the money but they are not the be-all and end-all of bike lights!
Personally I will continue to use an Exposure light on my bars and I have just ordered a Lupine for my helmet!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Well, if you already own them...*



RichardL said:


> I'm really happy that most of you guys like your MagicShines but they are not the only light available on the market. No matter what the question on this forum the inevitable answer is "Buy a MagicShine"!
> Lots of my friends have bought them, from Deal Extreme, and in fairness most are very pleased but they are not perfect! Quite a few arrived DOA, there is no way their output is 900 lumens and the build quality and finish is not great! We ride twice a week off-road at night typically in damp, Irish conditions, and already a couple of sets are giving problems!
> It seems to me the bottom line is that MagicShines are amazing lights for the money but they are not the be-all and end-all of bike lights!
> Personally I will continue to use an Exposure light on my bars and I have just ordered a Lupine for my helmet!


... no reason to switch.


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## bentboy242 (Nov 7, 2009)

*magicshine forum*

yes, it has become the magicshine forum.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yeah, well....*



bentboy242 said:


> yes, it has become the magicshine forum.


They will lock you up in a straight jacket if you even thought about buying anything else... I mean, come on! You must be fully weapons grade 'tarded if the thought to even cross your mind!!!

Okay, was that over the top? Sorry, I was just kidding. Just feeding the OP's criticism.

Nah. lots of reasons to buy other lights. We discuss it a lot because MS is such a new price/performance benchmark. 


I was eyeing a NR MiNewt X2 dual for a while, but held off because its kinda pricey, replacement batteries are pricey, and I knew LED technology was taking off in a big way. Then this thing came along and smoked it with twice the light at third the price.

I can't wait to see LED technology hit car headlights for real. I mean, Audi uses them on the really high end stuff. My Audi has HID lights, and I fear the day that it fries a ballast or a bulb. I know they are gonna get something stupid like $400 for replacement parts.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

RichardL said:


> I'm really happy that most of you guys like your MagicShines but they are not the only light available on the market. No matter what the question on this forum the inevitable answer is "Buy a MagicShine"!
> Lots of my friends have bought them, from Deal Extreme, and in fairness most are very pleased but they are not perfect! Quite a few arrived DOA, there is no way their output is 900 lumens and the build quality and finish is not great! We ride twice a week off-road at night typically in damp, Irish conditions, and already a couple of sets are giving problems!
> It seems to me the bottom line is that MagicShines are amazing lights for the money but they are not the be-all and end-all of bike lights!
> Personally I will continue to use an Exposure light on my bars and I have just ordered a Lupine for my helmet!


I imagine alot of vendors lights are optimistic in their ratings..Output is determined by a variety of factors. Build quality was AOK in my book, as well as finish. Please elaborate.

And what are the problems? Do you ride in the rain? I want to know what to expect...
Cheers
CDT


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## skeered1 (Jul 30, 2007)

RichardL said:


> I'm really happy that most of you guys like your MagicShines but they are not the only light available on the market. No matter what the question on this forum the inevitable answer is "Buy a MagicShine"!
> Lots of my friends have bought them, from Deal Extreme, and in fairness most are very pleased but they are not perfect! Quite a few arrived DOA, there is no way their output is 900 lumens and the build quality and finish is not great! We ride twice a week off-road at night typically in damp, Irish conditions, and already a couple of sets are giving problems!
> It seems to me the bottom line is that MagicShines are amazing lights for the money but they are not the be-all and end-all of bike lights!
> Personally I will continue to use an Exposure light on my bars and I have just ordered a Lupine for my helmet!


 Hey why not start the "Magicshine hater" forum? I'm bored w/ all the multiple "too-good-to-be-true" testimonials and I promise not to post another one as soon as I get my 4th set (tomorrow). You could be Geomans nemesis w/ your own cartoon depiction. A Bike light battle could finally take place for nite-riders to enjoy and maybe eventually programmed by some game-maker for us to play on rainy nights. Now let's start by designating your name - everyone, please help out!......


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## GSR101 (Aug 4, 2009)

The quality and light output for $90 (or less) is unreal. Sure there are other brands out there, but if you bit this side by side many $500 lighting systems the difference is REALLY hard to justify. Heck i can buy 4 of these things and if one is a dud I'm still way ahead and have more lumens per dollar. 

I bought one but with what this Magicshine is capable of for the price I wouldn't be shocked if Geoman isn't working on some other stuff. Heck I would if I was the importer. 

I don't think these will "kill the lighting industry" per say like so many think, but they sure have a niche - especially to MTBR readers. If you are an on a budget (read not sponsored) 24 hour racer or an "average working stiff" these lights open up a whole new category. Heck, 2 lights and 4 batteries for $250!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

GSR101 said:


> The quality and light output for $90 (or less) is unreal. Sure there are other brands out there, but if you bit this side by side many $500 lighting systems the difference is REALLY hard to justify. Heck i can buy 4 of these things and if one is a dud I'm still way ahead and have more lumens per dollar.
> 
> I bought one but with what this Magicshine is capable of for the price I wouldn't be shocked if Geoman isn't working on some other stuff. Heck I would if I was the importer.
> 
> I don't think these will "kill the lighting industry" per say like so many think, but they sure have a niche - especially to MTBR readers. If you are an on a budget (read not sponsored) 24 hour racer or an "average working stiff" these lights open up a whole new category. Heck, 2 lights and 4 batteries for $250!


We sell Lupine and others and, frankly, business is "brisk" for us with all brands. People have differing needs and opinions. Same holds true with bike lights.

That being said, there was always a hole in the lighting market to those that couldn't afford $300 - $1,000 on "decent" (i.e. bright enough) bike lights.

Our objective it to turn new riders on to the joy and challenge of night riding. I admit that the Magicshine price point has convinced many to give it a try. We really do receive emails every day thanking us for giving the opportunity to night ride with a decent light at an affordable price. This is the feedback that makes it all worthwhile and it brings tears to our bloodshot, overworked, night-riding eyes... 

For roadies, safety is of top concern. As we say here in our office, "a bike light on every bike!".

Ride on!

Geo


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Magicshine brought me back into night riding, period. I know this is true for many others.

I've gone night riding a few times with borrowed light systems, but to me the idea of paying $400 or more for a lighting system is ridiculous for what you are getting. I got a 10W halogen light several years ago for a gift, but one light wasn't really enough to safely night ride, so I stayed on close by fire roads and trails. 

When I read about Magicshine here, and read the reviews I couldn't wait to try one. I have now been night riding more since my MS arrived than I have in my entire life, and I just ordered another one. 

When I see the prices other brands charge I can not imagine how they will stay in business. Quality being better ain't worth a $200 - $500 premium. I can see much better at night than a lot of the guys running some of those high dollar systems and I've not been left in the dark yet with my MS.

I personally think that the biggest reason some people who know about Magicshine are still die hards for Lupine, Night Rider, Tesla and others is because it is hard to admit you spent too much. This is human nature.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

isleblue65 said:


> Magicshine brought me back into night riding, period. I know this is true for many others.


Yep, true. We hear it every day.

Geo


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Big surprise that when economic times are hard people are looking for more budget options. It isn't rocket science anymore to build a quality economical light with good output. Battery and emitter technology is better than ever, and the "major" manufacturers just aren't in the picture when it comes to output/dollar. How much would it cost you to purchase a Lupine replacement battery? Are you convinced that the batteries or emitters in a high end light set are BETTER? They probably come from the same factory! Why should you pay such a huge markup for a brand name? It's hard to justify buying a Tesla when something a fifth of the cost will provide the same output and run time. If it breaks, you could buy another and still be ahead... and replacement batteries are bound to be way cheaper.


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

*Waterproofing the MS Battery*

The case of the MS battery is obviously not 100% waterproof. However, you can (and should) fix this very easily and cheaply in a number of ways:

1. (the easiest) Bathroom sealant. Smear it in and around the cell/case junctions at both ends. Use black epoxy if you care what it looks like.

2. Get it "dipped": many places offer cheap plastic coating of any item, making it completely impervious to air, water, dust, whatever.

Others have commented on the thermal paste in the light head and demonstrated how easy it is to deal with that if it's a problem for you. Others have modifed the plastic mount to change the exit direction of the cable from the light head. And so on...

Stop whining about your awesome $85 light; use your imagination, spend another $2 and some time and make it better. Or spend $500 and get perfection out of the box.


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

*And another thing*

Seems like Geoman has sold out his stock of MS lights (again). The folks are voting with their wallets, so if you're still a doubter just wait a couple months for the reviews to stack up. There will be plenty of them, good, bad and (no doubt) ugly.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

First of all, your friends mistake for getting them from DX. 

Second of all, the only reason I can see you starting this thread is because you are trying to justify to yourself that you were right in spending so much money for a bike light. Otherwise, you would just ignore the threads/posts about magicshines.


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## Corey52 (Jul 23, 2009)

I have the Airbike P7 which I paid double the amount of the MS unit, but I like the build quality of it a little better.
And the light output is outstanding, even for the price I paid for it.

But I did take the plunge the other day and have an MS light on its way to be, should be here tomorrow.

For the price you can not beat these.
I was about to plunk down $500 to $600 for the Niterider 600 or 1200 Pro models until I ran across all the threads in here, and seeing these cheaper P7 lights convinced me to give them a try which I am glad I did.


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## RichardL (Sep 9, 2008)

fightnut said:


> First of all, your friends mistake for getting them from DX.
> 
> Second of all, the only reason I can see you starting this thread is because you are trying to justify to yourself that you were right in spending so much money for a bike light. Otherwise, you would just ignore the threads/posts about magicshines.


Well we're based in Ireland and I don't think the guys knew Geoman existed - not sure whether he ships to Europe?

With regard to your second point - I have no problem justifying the extra spend on the Exposure and Lupine lights - while I accept that they are not 3-4 better than the MagicShines I am happy to spend the extra money to get what I believe to be a better product!

Anyway - everyone to their own! Enjoy your Night Rides Guys!


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## wheeler26 (Apr 18, 2009)

Sometimes I'm almost afraid to go night riding with my 3 MS's.

You know why, cause too many bikers as well as bikers driving on in their cars stop me asking where to get these lights 

I'm thinking i should just make cards and hand them out, or perhaps i can $advertise$ for Geoman - ya a led reader on the back of my bike ="if you wanna buy these light goto www.geomangear.com :thumbsup:


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

wheeler26 said:


> Sometimes I'm almost afraid to go night riding with my 3 MS's.
> 
> You know why, cause too many bikers as well as bikers driving on in their cars stop me asking where to get these lights
> 
> I'm thinking i should just make cards and hand them out, or perhaps i can $advertise$ for Geoman - ya a led reader on the back of my bike ="if you wanna buy these light goto www.geomangear.com :thumbsup:


Where do I send the cards? Hehe. 

Geo


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

sdcadbiker said:


> Seems like Geoman has sold out his stock of MS lights (again). The folks are voting with their wallets, so if you're still a doubter just wait a couple months for the reviews to stack up. There will be plenty of them, good, bad and (no doubt) ugly.


Lots more inventory will arrive on Wednesday (11/11/09). We'll resume selling as soon as they are released from Customs - maybe tomorrow, Tuesday (11/10/09, fingers crossed).

Thanks for your support, we sincerely appreciate it.

Geo


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## dcc1234 (Nov 5, 2008)

*how many MS are out there?*

Mr. Geo-

since you are such an avid poster here, could you please share with us approx how many MS you've sold since you started selling them?

Sounds like your selling them now as fast as the manufacturer can make them?


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## digibud (Sep 21, 2009)

MS are a big deal to me. Locally at 65deg North, we get about 4.5 hrs of dusk in mid winter. It's often a nite ride at 3PM or no ride. After getting two sets of NiteRider dual400 lights I found I needed more batteries then learned they were $140 each. Wow! I returned both sets of lights. They were already more than I could afford and I could not afford to buy more batteries. I was about to forget riding at night or look for a cheaper Halogen solution when I came across the MS lights. I now have three sets of lights for well under the price of two sets of the Nite Rider. I also can turn on each light independently, and each MS is as bright as the set of two lights of the NR system. If one light goes bad I have two more for backup. If I were wealthy (er) I'd buy U.S. made and be happy to get a better made product but it looks to me like the Seca700 is about the closest thing out there to the MS in terms of performance and those are something like $400 each. To me that's crazy for any "regular joe" that has a limited income.


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## wormvine (Oct 27, 2005)

I just went on my maiden voyage with my magicshine. Just a 6 mile XC ride in 35 degree temps here in Colorado. It was my first night ride. The magicshine was excellent. I rode for a couple miles on a paved MUT to the trail on low which was plenty of light. Once on the trail I switched to high and was more than pleased with the result. If it wasn't for the low investment cost, I might have never purchased a bike light. I am glad I did. I will be testing it's durability this winter on some night snowboarding excursions.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

dcc1234 said:


> Mr. Geo-
> 
> Since you are such an avid poster here, could you please share with us approx how many MS you've sold since you started selling them?
> 
> Sounds like your selling them now as fast as the manufacturer can make them?


We've sold a few, admittedly.

As many as they can manufacturer? Naw, not even close! This is a good sized company that produces a variety of different products other than the Magicshine's you see us selling.

Ride on!

Geo


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## Chris RX-7 (Sep 22, 2009)

GEOMAN said:


> Where do I send the cards? Hehe.
> 
> Geo


I saw some of the earlier folks who bought lights from you got Geoman Gear stickers. I guess you ran out of stickers with the light sets, It's a shame I would have actually put it on my bike.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Chris RX-7 said:


> I saw some of the earlier folks who bought lights from you got Geoman Gear stickers. I guess you ran out of stickers with the light sets, It's a shame I would have actually put it on my bike.


We have more!

Chris, what is your contact info, I'll send you a few.

Geo
[email protected]


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Haught!*



GEOMAN said:


> We have more!
> 
> Chris, what is your contact info, I'll send you a few.
> 
> ...


Hey, I wanna order just a head unit, but it says 'Sold Out' Prolly because you haven't updated the site yet. Is that right?

I think I'm gonna get one of those 2 cell tiny batteries from Powerizer for $15 to run it as my lid light.

<- itching

Heh... I'll bet I can sell all my halogen lights and pay for all new MSs.


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## arashi (Jan 15, 2009)

GEOMAN said:


> We have more!
> 
> Chris, what is your contact info, I'll send you a few.
> 
> ...


I just PM'ed you my info as I must have been one of those shipments last month that didn't get a Geoman sticker. I'd rock it on my bike as well! :thumbsup:


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## steven.c (Aug 6, 2009)

pimpbot said:


> Heh... I'll bet I can sell all my halogen lights and pay for all new MSs.


I did just that ...and to be honest I feel a little guilty about the poor sap who bought them it.


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## dcc1234 (Nov 5, 2008)

*magic shine user manual*

fyi- attached as pdf.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> I think I'm gonna get one of those 2 cell tiny batteries from Powerizer for $15 to run it as my lid light.
> .


Don't forget when ordering from batteryspace to use E7SEA coupon code to get 5% off.


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## dcc1234 (Nov 5, 2008)

Sorry, if this is a noob question, but I would like to better waterproof the battery but am not sure what you mean by 'bathroom sealant' Do you mean something you'd apply with a caulking gun? Silicone? 

Also, What kind of place would one go to get it 'dipped'? TIA.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

dcc1234 said:


> Sorry, if this is a noob question, but I would like to better waterproof the battery but am not sure what you mean by 'bathroom sealant' Do you mean something you'd apply with a caulking gun? Silicone?
> 
> Also, What kind of place would one go to get it 'dipped'? TIA.


My guess would be silicone caulk.

or...Plasti dip

http://www.plastidip.com/

http://www.plastidip.com/diy_where_to_buy.php


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## wheeler26 (Apr 18, 2009)

this stuff Dap 3.0 bath sealant works good but is messy when 1st applied till dry
http://dap.com/3point0/kitchen_and_bath.html
or you can try to heat shrink wrap it in a big wrap =
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=...&meta=&aq=0&oq=heat+shrink&fp=d22933ec32dd567


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## dcc1234 (Nov 5, 2008)

Interesting... What about heat discharge with the battery all wrapped up? Does the battery need to release heat?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*It doesn't really...*



dcc1234 said:


> Interesting... What about heat discharge with the battery all wrapped up? Does the battery need to release heat?


... get hot. It's not like the Halogen lights of yore that draw 5 amps.

Yeah, I may have to go get a can of Plastidip.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

GEOMAN said:


> Lots more inventory will arrive on Wednesday (11/11/09). We'll resume selling as soon as they are released from Customs - maybe tomorrow, Tuesday (11/10/09, fingers crossed).
> 
> Thanks for your support, we sincerely appreciate it.
> 
> Geo


Is this a customer service thread or a discussion thread? 

J.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Didn't you read the title?*



JohnJ80 said:


> Is this a customer service thread or a discussion thread?
> 
> J.


This is the Magicshine forum. :thumbsup:


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> This is the Magicshine forum. :thumbsup:


LMAO....Yep, It's a whiner thread interrupted with good advice.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Just did a night ride tonight, 10 people, 6 Magicshines! LOL! It was cool looking at the convoy of green led buttons.:thumbsup:


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

fightnut said:


> Just did a night ride tonight, 10 people, 6 Magicshines! LOL! It was cool looking at the convoy of green led buttons.:thumbsup:


Gosh...sounds like the iPod of lights...except it's cheap....


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## mark-essex (Oct 31, 2006)

Apologies in advance as I posted this on the bottom of another thread that was probably not suitable.


I received my Magicshine last week, used it twice to commute, fantastic. Charged up fully last night and connected to lamp, it worked, I switched it off and unlpugged it. Cam out this morning, connected the cable...nothing, not even the green light on the back. I put the battery back on the charger and the LED remained green, even if it was fully charged I would have expected it to change to red for a few minutes.

I'm thinking the battery is at fault but I have limited knowledge of these things. 
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what could be wrong and what I could do other than sending it back?

Thanks in adance for any comments or help.

Cheers, Mark


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

The magicshine has done wonders for the amount of people out night riding, my best mate stopped night riding 18 months ago, but has now got back into it and its all down to him borrowing a magicshine off me. Its awesome, we use them with the DX headmount for walking too, which it also excels at, im surprised cavers aren't snapping these up too as it blows away the silva alpha 6 at a much better price point. 

Mark, sadly cant think what it could be, have you wiggled the cables etc. Depending on where you got it from will decide what to do, if from Geoman contact him, if DX send it to someone who knows these lights to have a look at it, will cost postage and beer money but better than waiting for DX. 

Chris


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## mark-essex (Oct 31, 2006)

I bought it from DX, I never knew Geoman existed...I do now, and I'm gutted.

I'm happy to pay for someone to look at it and hopefully fix it, any suggestions? 

It's back to 150 lumens for my unlit country lane commute...not a good experience after seeing what the Magiscshine could do. 

Thanks for the reply. Mark


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

mark-essex said:


> I bought it from DX, I never knew Geoman existed...I do now, and I'm gutted.
> 
> I'm happy to pay for someone to look at it and hopefully fix it, any suggestions?
> 
> ...


Contact us at [email protected] and we'll see what we can do for you. Send all details of the problem you are having.

You may not be our customer (yet!) but we're intent on making you one. Hehe.

Geo


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## mark-essex (Oct 31, 2006)

Wow. I will be a future customer, as will many of my friends who were impressed by the unit...but haven't heard about the problem I'm having.

1st class, I am very impressed...Geoman rulez! :thumbsup:


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## digibud (Sep 21, 2009)

nothing to do but send it back


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

digibud said:


> nothing to do but send it back


Not true!

Geo


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## the locust (Jan 18, 2005)

all i can say is my teammates and i bought a few of these lights from geoman and we couldn't be happier. i like em so much i even threw up a short review/plug for them on the team website (no we aren't sponsored by geoman or magicshine)


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## BlueMountain (Nov 8, 2006)

There is always a market for budget products- I bet bikesdirect has many followers too. But yes, I'd get tired of hearing about Ford Festivas or supercharged Yugos all the time on a car forum.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

bike light snobbery ...... who'd a thunk it


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

BlueMountain said:


> There is always a market for budget products- I bet bikesdirect has many followers too. But yes, I'd get tired of hearing about Ford Festivas or supercharged Yugos all the time on a car forum.


Yeah, but when a Mazda Miata outperforms an Audi A8 and a Shelby Pony I want to know about it! (Car & Driver magazine, recent "Best Driver's Car" shootout).


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## crapbot (Mar 4, 2008)

RichardL said:


> Lots of my friends have bought them, from Deal Extreme, and in fairness most are very pleased but they are not perfect! Quite a few arrived DOA, there is no way their output is 900 lumens and the build quality and finish is not great! We ride twice a week off-road at night typically in damp, Irish conditions, and already a couple of sets are giving problems!


Hey, maybe you EPIC guys shouldn't fall off your bikes so much !


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Hehe.


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## Corey52 (Jul 23, 2009)

> Your item is enroute and was last scanned at 8:33 PM on 11/11/2009 in FEDERAL WAY,WA 98003.


Next town over, it will be here today.
It is like Christmas this weekend.

The MS light shows up today, a new Camelbak Mule shows up Friday, and my GoPro HD camera came yesterday.


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## bentboy242 (Nov 7, 2009)

*headmount for magicshine?*



moggy82 said:


> The magicshine has done wonders for the amount of people out night riding, my best mate stopped night riding 18 months ago, but has now got back into it and its all down to him borrowing a magicshine off me. Its awesome, we use them with the DX headmount for walking too, which it also excels at, im surprised cavers aren't snapping these up too as it blows away the silva alpha 6 at a much better price point.
> 
> Mark, sadly cant think what it could be, have you wiggled the cables etc. Depending on where you got it from will decide what to do, if from Geoman contact him, if DX send it to someone who knows these lights to have a look at it, will cost postage and beer money but better than waiting for DX.
> 
> Chris


does anyone have a link for this headmount?
thanks


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

bentboy242 said:


> does anyone have a link for this headmount?
> thanks


Here you go! Click HERE.

Geo


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## BlueMountain (Nov 8, 2006)

sdcadbiker said:


> Yeah, but when a Mazda Miata outperforms an Audi A8 and a Shelby Pony I want to know about it! (Car & Driver magazine, recent "Best Driver's Car" shootout).


True, but that is not the case. I have examined one of these now and I certainly would chance it if I were on a budget (or had a domineering wife) but as it stands, I'm not on a budget and I'd rather have a Dinotte, Lupine, JetLites, Exposure, NiteFlux, etc.

I'm glad someone is building a cheap light so more can afford and participate but I personally don't think it has the quality, durability, features, or reliability I want. If you think they do, I'm glad. If you don't care...well, that's good too but when I'm out there 10-20 miles from the trailhead in 15 degree weather and another 2 hrs back, this is not the light I want anything to do with.

Not being snobbish here actually- I just value other features a lot more than price. I don't look for the cheapest frame or tire or anything. If price is your primary concern, that is fine- just keep in mind that some simply want better quality in lights and batteries and will pay for it. To some, these are a great value. To me, they are not so don't take this as me making fun of your purchase.


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

Geoman, I read in some other post you are offering free US shipping on MS. I went to your website and could not confirm this. Can you tell me if you are indeed offering free shipping? Interested in getting the MS unit. 

Btw, how long is the combined cable length on the headlight battery pack?


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

> True, but that is not the case. I have examined one of these now and I certainly would chance it if I were on a budget (or had a domineering wife) but as it stands, I'm not on a budget and I'd rather have a Dinotte, Lupine, JetLites, Exposure, NiteFlux, etc.
> 
> I'm glad someone is building a cheap light so more can afford and participate but I personally don't think it has the quality, durability, features, or reliability I want. If you think they do, I'm glad. If you don't care...well, that's good too but when I'm out there 10-20 miles from the trailhead in 15 degree weather and another 2 hrs back, this is not the light I want anything to do with.
> 
> Not being snobbish here actually- I just value other features a lot more than price. I don't look for the cheapest frame or tire or anything. If price is your primary concern, that is fine- just keep in mind that some simply want better quality in lights and batteries and will pay for it. To some, these are a great value. To me, they are not so don't take this as me making fun of your purchase.


Great comment and I totally agree.

Running out of light while night riding is not a lot different in many cases than running out of air while scuba diving. Either way, you have a huge problem on your hands.

J.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

BlueMountain said:


> True, but that is not the case. I have examined one of these now and I certainly would chance it if I were on a budget (or had a domineering wife) but as it stands, I'm not on a budget and I'd rather have a Dinotte, Lupine, JetLites, Exposure, NiteFlux, etc.
> 
> I'm glad someone is building a cheap light so more can afford and participate but I personally don't think it has the quality, durability, features, or reliability I want. If you think they do, I'm glad. If you don't care...well, that's good too but when I'm out there 10-20 miles from the trailhead in 15 degree weather and another 2 hrs back, this is not the light I want anything to do with.
> 
> Not being snobbish here actually- I just value other features a lot more than price. I don't look for the cheapest frame or tire or anything. If price is your primary concern, that is fine- just keep in mind that some simply want better quality in lights and batteries and will pay for it. To some, these are a great value. To me, they are not so don't take this as me making fun of your purchase.


What exactly is the quality difference? What other features are you talking about?

I want to get some lights, but I don't want to buy crap either. I don't own a set of lights, primarily because of the cost to try it, and that's what has made these MS lights very appealing to me. I just haven't been able to justify spending $200+ for a bike light, only to find out that I need to drop another $200 to put one on the handlebar. Money's not really a problem, but wasting it is. I don't want to buy a MS and have it crap out on me in 6 months, but I've also seen people report problems with their more expensive lights too. If I'm gonna spend a $100 on a light that is crap, I would rather have dropped $200 on a good one...... If there really is a discernible quality difference, because the light output seems comparable to most.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

d365 said:


> What exactly is the quality difference? What other features are you talking about?
> .


People have posted the MS taken apart when it first came out showing what looks like dubious build quality. But in the end, they were still impressed. The failures I have seen posted seem to be the mounting bracket breaking.

And as you said, any brand can fail. Thus, redundancy is the ticket. Get a helmet and a bar light and have fun. like "RAID" in the disc drive world, "RAIL", Redundant Array of Inexpensive Lights. I think two cheap lights is less risky than one expensive one.

I have been using two magic shines and so far they have been excellent performers.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

There have been qualitative reports of field failures. There have been noted design issues and suggested design improvements like securing the main coil (inductor) to keep it from bouncing around under vibration.

If you want a cheap light, Magicshine is probably good. You want strong reliability record, you should be looking at the brands with track records in those cases - Lupine, Dinotte, L&M, etc... That will cost you more. As always, looks like you don't get something for nothing on these either.

I get involved with a lot of failure analysis. You want to cause something to fail, subject it to both temp cycles and vibration. That pretty much sums up life on the handlebars - especially the vibration part. For me, personally, I would err on the side of buying a better and proven reliability record from a manufacturer.

J.


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

Well, I guess that time will tell; there are enough of these lights in circulation now to get a decent (albeit subjective) cross-section of performance reviews over the coming winter season. I gave mine a good run last night, including bashing it hard a couple times on overhanging scrub oak branches, no problems. My main concern is getting **** in the battery (water, dust, whatever) but I tried to head that off with silicone sealant. As I said, time will tell. I'm also not totally impressed with the very white color of the light, I prefer Niterider blue. 

I have nothing against Niterider; they are a local (to me) company with outstanding CS and their product is very high quality. I will continue to run my Trinewt on the handlebars but my old Minewt headlight is now history, it just wasn't bright enough and I didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a replacement.

I agree with others who mentioned that redundancy is good. One light, however good it is, isn't enough if you are "15 miles from the trailhead with two hours left to ride". But you already know that...


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

*As you probably can tell...*

The only thing I know about bike lights, is that I need around 1000+ lumens to ride the stuff I would be doing, as suggested by others. I want the best quality for the least amount of money. The trick is finding the right compromises. These lights will only be used twice a week, for 3-4 months out of the year, and I'm concerned about spending $400+ to try it out. At the same time, I don't want to be searching for a new light in 6 months either. I guess I am just cheap at heart...coming from nothing will do that to you.

Continuing to use the car analogy - I'm perfectly happy driving my Subaru, even though I would have a Volvo if money was really no object. I still get the 5 star crash rating, reliability, and all wheel drive that I would be looking for in the Volvo, just not all the bells and whistles that make the Volvo so nice. That's the light I'm looking for.

sorry to hijack your thread


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

The price is already coming down on the 1000+ lumen lights. I'm sure it will continue to erode throughout the next 12 months. 1000 lumens in a bike light 12 months from now will probably be in the $300 to $400 range.

sdcadbiker - just to be clear, reliability of one unit is not interesting from a reliability perspective. They could make an absolutely horrible product and there would be more than one light that operated well forever. By the same score they could make an absolutely stellar product and there would be some failures (albeit a very low number if the installed base was at all significant). I would think from the reports we've heard that the failure rate is quite a fair bit higher than the more established brands although some of that could be attributable to infant life failures in a new and relatively untested product.

J.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

JohnJ80 said:


> I would think from the reports we've heard that the failure rate is quite a fair bit higher than the more established brands although some of that could be attributable to infant life failures in a new and relatively untested product.


Not true.

Frankly, we are seeing fewer problems on the MS's than we have on the "name" brand lights we sell in terms of percentages.

NiteFlux had terrible problems late last year on QC (nearing 50% failures). They finally suspended all North American sales until they worked out the problems - there's been nothing from them yet...

Geo


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Well, certainly that wouldn't be comparable. 50% is obviously indicative of a serious problem. I would hope that Magicshine would not compare to that. 

I'd be interested in the number of failures over time, that is germane. 

From the short time that Magicshine has been shipping lights, and if there are a number of failures, then that can become (and probably is) significant. Since these are new, these are infant life failures and may or may not have any bearing on the long term liability. Infant life failures are often different animals than long term reliability failures.

This sort of assembly, before it gets into the hands of a user, should be highly reliable for outgoing quality. If there are DOA units, that would concerning for a couple of reasons - it could mean that they left the factory intact but failed due to some phenomena in shipping (temperature, humidity or vibration are common reasons) or it could mean that the outgoing quality was not great especially in testing outgoing units.

For something like this, I would be concerned even with very low failures out of the box. This is not a complex electronic product, it is not difficult to test, and it is expected to be rugged.

Are you telling me that I ought to be buying a Magicshine for cheap instead of a Lupine for big bucks - that the Magicshine is more reliable? 

J.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

A 50% failure rate is way past a low-cost product's failure rate. That is scary but I think they will sort it out. What ever happened to Nightlightning company? They were all the rage last year. 

I would not use these Magicshines but if all you have or want to spend is a hundred bucks, it is the brightest choice. If I went a real budget light, Dinotte would be it, especially for the handlebar. I realize that may not be considered a true budget light by some but it is a good value and covers my basic requirements. Nite Rider is improving as well so I'd consider them too. The markup on those is high so they can actually be bargained down some and be a decent value.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Flyer said:


> What ever happened to Nightlightning company? They were all the rage last year.


Not sure why you mentioned them but I think they are still ticking over nicely...

3000lm anyone?


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Nice, I actualy mentioned them because I thought they were building them with decent-enough quality. I even spoke to the main guy a couple of times and they sounded like an honest outfit. I was tempted to try one till I saw the helmet mount. 

I have no doubt that some are working on multi-LED, reflector-equipped, lights.


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## Outsider (Jan 1, 2007)

JohnJ80 said:


> ...
> Are you telling me that I ought to be buying a Magicshine for cheap instead of a Lupine for big bucks - that the Magicshine is more reliable?
> 
> J.


I would argue that two MagicShine lights (one the handlebar and another one on the helmet) would give more and better light as well as more reliability (through redundancy) than one more expensive Lupine light.

The longterm reliability of the MagicShine light is naturally an unknown for now, but from what I have seen on the internet the failure rate is currently quite low. Sure, there have been some reported failures, but on the other hande the light has probably sold extremely well.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*well, really....*



Outsider said:


> I would argue that two MagicShine lights (one the handlebar and another one on the helmet) would give more and better light as well as more reliability (through redundancy) than one more expensive Lupine light.
> 
> The longterm reliability of the MagicShine light is naturally an unknown for now, but from what I have seen on the internet the failure rate is currently quite low. Sure, there have been some reported failures, but on the other hande the light has probably sold extremely well.


... there isn't much to it. There is a battery, cable, some internal wiring to a printed circuit board (solid state) driving an LED. Basically, the whole thing is solid state. Not many points of failure there, especially compared to an HID light. I know folks who have to replace ballasts and bulbs on those things, and those replacement parts are more expensive than this whole light.

Halogens would have a bigger chance of failure, I would think too.

Personally, I would never go out on a night ride with only one light. I usually take at least three: Bar, helmet, and an LED flashlight in the CamelBak. Sometimes a lower power LED camping type headlamp too. I love the way those things make a nice glow around my bars. IMO, if yo go out in the woods at night with exactly one light source on your person, you are a world class dumbass.... but that's just my opinion.

I just got my MagicShine a couple weeks ago. Just for kicks, I unscrewed the lens cover to measure it for lens options. The innards seem to be well put together. The shell is pretty bulletproof. The only main points of breaking I can see would be the mount or the lens... say if you crashed. Inside, the only thing I can imagine failing would be a solder joint if it was poorly made, but I didn't see any poor joints in there... not that I was looking closely. Hope I didn't just void my warranty.


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## gmstrek8 (Oct 23, 2008)

I bought the Exposure 24 hr solo package and couldn't be happier. Yes it wasn't cheap but good quality, great lights as well as great customer service. No I don't have a lot of money either but to me it was worth it and I don't regret splurging once in a while on something that is well made.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Outsider said:


> I would argue that two MagicShine lights (one the handlebar and another one on the helmet) would give more and better light as well as more reliability (through redundancy) than one more expensive Lupine light.
> 
> The longterm reliability of the MagicShine light is naturally an unknown for now, but from what I have seen on the internet the failure rate is currently quite low. Sure, there have been some reported failures, but on the other hande the light has probably sold extremely well.


I'd say that these beamshots would argue against that. This looks to me like the MS is about half of the Tesla which probably is somewhere in the vicinity of 400-500 lumens out the lens, IIRC (700 predicted).

http://acidinmylegs.blogspot.com/2009/11/few-beam-shots.html

As to reliability, it doesn't take many to have failed at this point - even just looking at DOAs, to get to a significant failure rate. This is not a high volume product.

Anyone that goes out without backup light to get back has made a very foolish, and potentially fatal, mistake. I carry at 200lumen small flashlight to get back if my bar light goes out.

J.


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## Outsider (Jan 1, 2007)

Actually, I do think the MagicShine light has sold quite well, judging by what I have seen. After just a few months on the market, there seem to as many MagicShine lights as Lupine lights out there. I could be wrong on this of course, but that is my impression.

Regarding the light output most have measured it to be around 500 - 550 lumen, putting it about 10 percent under that of the Tesla. There are beamshots showing it to be equal to the Tesla as well. Since the QC is virtually nonexistent, some lights are better or worse than others, though.

Edit:
I don't want to come out as a MagicShine fan boy. There is no doubt that the expensive alternatives are better in some aspects. Personally, I do not consider the MagicShine light to be fully usable directly out of the box. However, with some modifications, described here, the light is very good and based on my comparisons with other lights I would estimate that it outputs 500-550 lumen. The battery packs need treatment to be waterproof, something which I will fix tonight. If one of the lights would die, I wouldn't even be that sorry, since I already have an alternative led driver which would drive the P7 at 2.8 A instead of 2.4, giving noticeably more light.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

The acidinmylegs beamshot sure doesn't. Those have been pretty faithful in my experience. Looks to me to be about half the Tesla.

J.


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## Outsider (Jan 1, 2007)

JohnJ80 said:


> The acidinmylegs beamshot sure doesn't. Those have been pretty faithful in my experience. Looks to me to be about half the Tesla.
> 
> J.


This beamshot shows the difference to be quite marginal. Maybe acidinmylegs got a bad light. This would of course be one reason to by a more expensive light, since the QC should be better,


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## arashi (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm very happy with my Magicshine. The customer support I get from Geoman more than out weigh any potential drawbacks regarding QC. He has always answered my questions and I had quite a few even before I purchased the light. 

BTW: There was no QC issues with my light.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Outsider said:


> This beamshot shows the difference to be quite marginal. Maybe acidinmylegs got a bad light. This would of course be one reason to by a more expensive light, since the QC should be better,


I don't see how you can say that. By the link provided it looks to be about 1/2 the output of the Tesla. Quite marginal? No way - look at the intensity of the beam. It's much less light.

J.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Just a note regarding signal to noise.

This is more a technical forum than a chatroom, but is full of the same MS stuff over and over, for example theres currently at least 4 threads discussing the lack of MS in the reviews.

So when you're looking for information on waterproofing your button next year you'll get 199 hits saying "nice bright button" and one saying "silicone grease". 


Really really happy the DIY forum has been split off


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## GSR101 (Aug 4, 2009)

The build quality and the quality of the beam is just as good as anything else out there I've used. The light has positive and audible clicks and I'm going off of 3 hours and 3 minutes on a single 4 battery setup. 

If you want a smoother production finish or nicer "cosmetic" light housing then go ahead and buy a $300+ light but for the money these things are the real deal. 

What I would like to see is a 6 battery with dual heads that lasts about 2:20 minutes. Geo you should see if you can source stuff like this. These lights will be hot among 24H racers who do not have light sponsors (90% of us out there). I think if you have some nice choices of battery packs and lights you will do very very well. 

PEACE


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## Outsider (Jan 1, 2007)

JohnJ80 said:


> I don't see how you can say that. By the link provided it looks to be about 1/2 the output of the Tesla. Quite marginal? No way - look at the intensity of the beam. It's much less light.
> 
> J.


That is not half the light output in my eyes. I would say it is slightly less, but the MagicShine light is aimed further away, making the comparison more difficult.

This test actually measured the light output: 550-600 lumen for Tesla and 550 lumen for the MagicShine (DX) light. This test actually led to a exhaustive (and exhausting) discussion, since there seems to be Tesla batch using 15 W instead of 12 W to generate the same amount of light.

BTW, I agree with znomit above. The MagicShine light seems to fill the threads with "I like my MagicShine" stuff, without any new information.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Outsider said:


> That is not half the light output in my eyes. I would say it is slightly less, but the MagicShine light is aimed further away, making the comparison more difficult.
> 
> This test actually measured the light output: 550-600 lumen for Tesla and 550 lumen for the MagicShine (DX) light.


Actually its worse than that. After a small warmup time the lumen output drops to around 450 on both lights.


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## Outsider (Jan 1, 2007)

znomit said:


> Actually its worse than that. After a small warmup time the lumen output drops to around 450 on both lights.


Yes, there is a lot more to it. I actually read through the whole thread (I'm on sick leave) and it led to some fairly deep discussions about how to measure power and whether the fix to the Tesla actually worked etc.

I'm not sure about how the temperature affects the light output in practice, since the light has always been cold to touch when riding.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Outsider said:


> Yes, there is a lot more to it. I actually read through the whole thread (I'm on sick leave) and it led to some fairly deep discussions about how to measure power and whether the fix to the Tesla actually worked etc.
> 
> I'm not sure about how the temperature affects the light output in practice, since the light has always been cold to touch when riding.


I have a calibrated monitor and that would seem to correlate well with what the measurements are. I'd agree with the idea that the MS is approximately a 400 lumen light.

Most semiconductor performance is heavily influenced by device temperature. The case temperature and the temp on the die are two widely different, and often unconnected, cases. Then, of course, there may be thermal limiting circuitry (should be) in the light itself.

J.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*heh...*



ab138501 said:


> I tried the Magicshine and did not have very good luck with it. The battery is supposed to last for three hours on high. Mine lasted for only about 45 minutes on high while I was commuting to work on 10/26/09. Granted, it was very cold out that morning.
> 
> Check out the beam shots of the Magicshine, Lupine, and Niterider lights at http://acidinmylegs.blogspot.com/2009/11/few-beam-shots.html
> 
> The Magicshine is clearly not up to the level of Lupine or Niterider.


thing is, it probably has exactly the same off the shelf protected battery cells as the expensive lights. You probably just got a bad cell, which can happen to any light. Heck, $40 at you're back in biz if its out of warranty.


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## fda47 (Aug 26, 2009)

ab138501 said:


> I tried the Magicshine and did not have very good luck with it. The battery is supposed to last for three hours on high. Mine lasted for only about 45 minutes on high while I was commuting to work on 10/26/09. Granted, it was very cold out that morning.
> 
> Check out the beam shots of the Magicshine, Lupine, and Niterider lights at http://acidinmylegs.blogspot.com/2009/11/few-beam-shots.html
> 
> The Magicshine is clearly not up to the level of Lupine or Niterider.


What's interesting pimpbot, is that I've seen this same exact post in at least 5 threads :skep:

Ditto, probably a bad battery and yeah it can happen on an $85 or $499 set of lights


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Sheesh, I'm chasing around trying to find all his posts (5 or 6 so far) so I can clarify the likely culprit of the short run-time...

The battery likely needs to be "conditioned". Run it to "red" on the lighthead and recharge for a full 4 - 6 hours. That should do it.

We're all getting 3 - 4 hour run times on high.

Thanks!

Geo


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yeah, I smell some self-jedi-mindtrick in there*



fda47 said:


> What's interesting pimpbot, is that I've seen this same exact post in at least 5 threads :skep:
> 
> Ditto, probably a bad battery and yeah it can happen on an $85 or $499 set of lights


Some people want to believe that there is no global warming, that the earth is 6000 years old, and that an quality light built around a $5 LED emitter can't be built for less than $500.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> Some people want to believe that there is no global warming, that the earth is 6000 years old, and that an quality light built around a $5 LED emitter can't be built for less than $500.


What? The Earth isn't 6,000 years old?

Hehe.

Geo


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

GEOMAN said:


> Sheesh, I'm chasing around trying to find all his posts (5 or 6 so far) so I can clarify the likely culprit of the short run-time...
> 
> The battery likely needs to be "conditioned". Run it to "red" on the lighthead and recharge for a full 4 - 6 hours. That should do it.
> 
> ...


Where are you getting your data on Li ion batteries? They are memory free. You do get a slight additional capacity after the first several charges as the plates are fully formed but you don't add lots of capacity like 2-3X the capacity.

If the batteries have a fuel gauge on board then that will calibrate it but I believe that only is for reporting battery status unless Magicshine does it differently.

J.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

It's a matter of "conditioning", "calibrating", or "coordinating" the battery and MS smart charger, to use other terms.

We have information on Li-Ion batteries on our site. We know how they work.
http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=13

The term "conditioning" is one gotten from our experience selling Lupine. We have to do this to their battery/charger systems occasionally. From our experience, it is usually only required once and then only rarely.

Geo


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## VaskaS (Aug 19, 2009)

GEOMAN said:


> It's a matter of "conditioning", "calibrating", or "coordinating" the battery and MS smart charger, to use other terms.
> 
> We have information on Li-Ion batteries on our site. We know how they work.
> http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=13
> ...


It's no use of what you call "conditioning" MS batteries, because there is only an overcharge/discharge protection cirquit inside but not a balancing cirquit. As I already wrote in another thread the only way of "conditioning" of such an underperforming MS battery is to discharge the sells separately to equal level. After doing it once you'll have a valuable battery with three-hour ride at max.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

I own a Magishine and I can tell you it is a far cry from being the same quality as some of the lights I have owned. I own two Lupines, 2 Niterider HIDs, and a couple of older halogen systems. I bought the Magishine so I can lend it out to friends that want to go riding with me. It is what I would call a throw away light. The switch isn't the best and it doesn't always work on the first click, but b/c of the price I can live with this. Also for some reason on mine right after I charge the battery to full capacity and fire up the light the switch lights up red. After I run the light a minute and unplug the light head from the battery and plug it back in it turns green and functions as it should from there on out and lasts about 3 hours. Yesterday on a ride the light head starting bouncing around and the screw holding it to the mount was about to come out. I carry tools with me of course so I tightened it down and continued my ride. 

As far as the LED lights I own, after 2 Years of owning a Lupine Wilma and just shy of two years owning a Betty they are functioning as new and don't give me issues period. My NR HIDs were reliable until I broke a bulb. My halogens are still going but the batteries are run down and need replacing. You can tell just by looking at the Magishines that they aren't a high end light and certainly after handling and using one you know for sure what you have. It is an inexpensive bike light and reliability is questionable, but hey it is cheap! So for the guys saying it is going to be as good as a $300+ light I have to say dream on. But the fact that you can buy 3 of them for that price certainly makes the Magishine appealing. They are a good light for the price. 

Also as far as the beam shots comparing the Tesla to the Magicshine, the Tesla certainly looks brighter although I wouldn't call it double. The main difference I see is the Tesla has a much nicer and more even beam whereas the MS has a smaller spot and then a dramatic drop off into the flood area. I don't own the Tesla, but I have seen all the beam shots around and it looks to be an excellent beam.

Anyway enjoy what you have and happy riding.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

JohnJ80 said:


> I would think from the reports we've heard that the failure rate is quite a fair bit higher than the more established brands although some of that could be attributable to infant life failures in a new and relatively untested product.
> J.


Your not taking into account how many of these things have been sold since they came out.
It has to be in the hundreds, probably high hundreds.

Gather up the same number of buyers of ANY brand name light, and I'll bet you the problem rate is about the same.


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

I thought I'd throw my $0.02 into the mix... not that anyone will read it this far down into a thread.

First and foremost, I don't own a Magicshine. I did, however, recommend it to a buddy who was looking for an inexpensive light. 

Wed. night I had the chance to see the thing in person, and compare it to my light (homebrew 3xCree XR-E Q5 bin, Fatman driver 1A high, ~400mA low, Khatod narrow optic). I was underwhelmed with the performance of the Magicshine in this comparison. Actually, it made me feel better about my homebrew light... Overall light output between the two was pretty similar (not at all what I expected), and MY light had a better, more even beam pattern. I think the Magicshine had slightly more throw, but it was close.

Just found this interesting. If I get permission, I want to pull his light apart and try to measure current to the led, as I suspect that its not getting enough.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

What was the homebrews cost?
Thats a big driving factor in the MS fanboy waves we're seeing.
At $85, how long does it have to last for that expenditure? Not to mention a_ complete replacement lighthead_ is $45....

Hell in one year maybe a light head that performs twice as good as this, will _still_ be $45...

I rode it on paved for 30 miles and it was awesome. My friend felt it was maybe even brighter than my old NR enduro. On low it was a bit brighter than their Newts.
I am looking forward to some local singletrack with this.

And as far as 'failing out in the wild while riding', it's like anything else : it is wise two have two sources of light. My enduro went down several times, either unplugged, shut off, or "unlit" in a crash. It always came on, but thats only after I came to a complete stop - in the dark.

We'll see how this thing plays out, but man honestly, it's an incredible deal. However you slice it.
CDT


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

fightnut said:


> *Your not taking into account how many of these things have been sold since they came out.
> It has to be in the hundreds, probably high hundreds.
> *
> Gather up the same number of buyers of ANY brand name light, and I'll bet you the problem rate is about the same.


If it is that few, then even a single failure is a problem in terms of factory outgoing quality levels. Thank you for making my point for me.

Your second point I don't agree with. Failure rates of a few percent are death on the warranty bill at the factory.

J.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

In our experience, failure rates have been exceedingly low on the Magicshines. Our staff met yesterday and we all commented on how few Magicshine problems we have in comparison to other items and brands we sell/sold. We're in heaven.

Sure, there have been some isolated issues that have cropped up but MS has been very responsive in making corrections and improvements. Every batch we get is improved and better. 

Geo


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

fightnut said:


> Your not taking into account how many of these things have been sold since they came out.
> It has to be in the hundreds, probably high hundreds....


Hundreds? I would bet many thousands have been sold.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

More than that.

Geo


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

How low?

What about these reports of DOA lights?

With all due respect, since you have a strong financial interest in selling these lights, I think it fair to say that should be taken with a grain of salt without specific data - otherwise it is using these forums as a sales showroom.


J.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Peace.

Geo


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

Who cares....
with Niterider and Light&motion charging $75 "bench fees" (plus shipping) to do any service on their own lights, reliability is simply not a concern for me with magicshine. My L&M and NR lights both went back for repairs at least once a season over the last few years, adding up to hundreds of dollars, so I've been eagerly awaiting the inexpensive LED revolution! Bring on the magicshines!


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

GEOMAN said:


> Peace.
> 
> Geo


just keeping you on the straight and narrow.

J.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

JohnJ80 said:


> How low?
> 
> What about these reports of DOA lights?
> 
> ...


Specific data? How exactly do you propose we collect this data? These are basically disposable lights. You can get a new light head for 45 bucks if yours breaks. If your battery craps out you can buy another for like 30 dollars. I bet you couldn't even ship your Niterider, Lupine, or whatever back to the company for that amount of money.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

how about number sold and number failed? Geoman imports them (sole importer as I understand it), he should have all the numbers. Should be readily available.

J.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

I don't understand why so many people are reacting so negatively to the popularity of these lights. Is it to justify their own purchases of more expensive (and possibly over-priced) lights?

Look, if these things are crap we're going to start hearing a lot from the many customers who have posted here. At that point people can *knowledgeably *suggest that others avoid this light, and we'll learn in more detail just how great Geoman's customer service really is.

Until then, I suggest you all stop s*itting on this light and on Geoman. It's uncalled for.

Antonio


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Agreed- these are basically disposable lights.


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## GSR101 (Aug 4, 2009)

antonio said:


> *I don't understand why so many people are reacting so negatively to the popularity of these lights. Is it to justify their own purchases of more expensive (and possibly over-priced) lights?*
> 
> Look, if these things are crap we're going to start hearing a lot from the many customers who have posted here. At that point people can *knowledgeably *suggest that others avoid this light, and we'll learn in more detail just how great Geoman's customer service really is.
> 
> ...


Remember these lights are $85.

At this point in the LED game *ALL lights are basically disposable with the technology changing so fast. * If you look at it this way - You can spend $85 NOW and next year something better and brighter will be out, or you can spend $300 NOW and next year something better and brighter will be out. I think all of the beam shot threads have proven this already. That $500 lupine/NR/L&M isn't going to be worth squat next year. The smaller guys have the ability to react very fast and won't be bogged down with model years, etc.

Unless you have the time and know how to make your own lights these are very nice lights for $85. Again, with the tech. changing so fast in this area I really think anything we buy is going to be obsolete next season.

Remember these lights are $85.

Just my loose change. All I know is I'm super stoked with what I got and have just as much light as my friends for $300 less. They were actually pissed at first _(much like the guys posting on here that say these lights suck and have yet to see one in person, lol)_ and diss the lights too but it's funny how a couple want Geo's link now. Ha!

Did I mention just $85??

Take that haters! Ha!


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## siwilliams (Jul 23, 2009)

JohnJ80 said:


> If it is that few, then even a single failure is a problem in terms of factory outgoing quality levels. Thank you for making my point for me.
> 
> Your second point I don't agree with. Failure rates of a few percent are death on the warranty bill at the factory.
> 
> J.


Judging by how long mu lights (and other peoples) have been on back order I suspect the numbers sold are a fair bit bigger than a few hundred!


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Well, outgoing quality on an electronic assembly ought to be less than 5000ppm. That means if 5 are DOA or have failures that made it past the factory and 1000 were sold, that would be 5000ppm. Especially so on a light because it's a simple circuit and it is extremely easy to test (turn it on, turn it off).

J.


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

GSR101 said:


> That $500 lupine/NR/L&M isn't going to be worth squat next year. The smaller guys have the ability to react very fast and won't be bogged down with model years, etc.


I respectfully disagree.
While there certainly is depreciation - as in the case of basically all kinds of goods purchased - you may be surprised that sometimes it is far from "worth squat next year".
I can speak from personal experience, since I've sold a Dinotte 600 light last year - after more than 1 year of happy use - in _Europe_, where this light is basically unknown. It was sold for about 2/3 of the original price (MSRP?) I bought it for. I put a great amount of use into this light and was very happy with the money I got for it.
Also, I happen to regularly check the German ebay for Lupine lights (there were times when I was very interested in buying a used Wilma head) - and the MSRP 320 EUR lightheads regularly sell for ~200 EUR. That was actually one of the reasons why I didn't buy one second-hand - it was not worth it, since I could get a new lighthead for just a bit more!
The same is true for ALL Lupine lights, believe or not - there are collectors, fans or I don't know who who pay even for oldie halogen Lupines - who'd have thought that?
So investing in a brand light can be "worth" it - if nothing else, you'll have the joy of having a state-of-the-art item. And it's not about the price. Usually the owners of XTR wheels and carbon full-suss frames complain about the price and buy a MS just because branded lights are "expensive".
Not picking on MS here, I think they are a great newbie's lights, and finally night riding is not too expensive for anyone anymore.

Oh, I almost forgot to react on your other comment regarding "reaction" - please check who's out with a light or light upgrade with the newest Cree XP-G LEDS? Let me help you, there are two manufacturers I know of - Lupine and Nightlightning. These LEDs have been out for about two months... even the DIY guys in the other forum have hardly finished their first custom-built lights!

Finally, I can quote a comment from the original Lupine forum that was made by one of the guys (Stefan, I think?); he said they are about maxed out on the electronics, so pretty much any upgrade that comes will come from the LEDs only - that's it. Swap the LED board yourself whenever an upgrade becomes available, and you got a new light!
If you had been there at the beginning, at the birth of the oldest ~380 lumen Wilma (at least I think that was the first - in 2005*), you might still have that lighthead. Well, believe or not, the latest XP-G upgrade will fit in that very lighthead, so you could do an upgrade, if you wanted to! Of course that wouldn't be as bright as a newly purchased light since the electronics were upped from 12W to 17W, but still impressive. You'd need to look hard to find another light that you could do that with (it is Nightlightning again that comes to my mind...).

* Actually I'm not _quite_ sure about that very first Wilma, but the 2006 version is 100% compatible for an upgrade.


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

CdaleTony said:


> What was the homebrews cost?
> Thats a big driving factor in the MS fanboy waves we're seeing.
> At $85, how long does it have to last for that expenditure? Not to mention a_ complete replacement lighthead_ is $45....
> 
> ...


I wasn't going to get into the cost thing, as that's why I recommended the MS to my buddy. I've put about $150 into my light, not including time and material to make the housing (scrap metal from work, CAD software and CNC mill).

I think with a better driver, the MS could be even better. I have a feeling that something is limiting the output to less than the 2.8A max that the LED can handle, but without testing the actual light I can't be certain. If Geoman would restock the lighthead-only version, I'd pick one up to cannibalize...


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## RobbieG (Nov 13, 2009)

Too many riders I know are reluctant to get into night riding due to the high cost of good lighting systems... IMO anything that gets riders out after dark is good news... 

I recently purchased a Lupine Tesla (from Geoman) because my personal philosophy has always been "buy the good stuff once or the cheap stuff often"... it just gives me peace of mind. It doesn't guarantee that there won't be issues, but I will pay for the quality engineering every time.

P.S. I ordered a MS torch for the handlebars as a backup and it will probably make a great combo...

Just get out and ride and don't worry about what brand of lights you are running..


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

dnlwthrn said:


> ... I have a feeling that something is limiting the output to less than the 2.8A max that the LED can handle...


Well, since they are advertised as having *2.4A* on high, I'd say that would be the place for you to start looking.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

gmcttr said:


> Well, since they are advertised as having *2.4A* on high, I'd say that would be the place for you to start looking.


The general design means the heat isn't carried away from the LED effectively. Bumping up the drive current won't help with that a lot. Also its only 10% more lumens but 20% more power drain going up to 2.8.

The only reason to drive at 2.8 would be so you could claim 900 lumens, which they do anyway


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

JohnJ80 said:


> Well, outgoing quality on an electronic assembly ought to be less than 5000ppm. That means if 5 are DOA or have failures that made it past the factory and 1000 were sold, that would be 5000ppm. Especially so on a light because it's a simple circuit and it is extremely easy to test (turn it on, turn it off).
> 
> J.


Your math and observation make perfect sense but, thankfully, your numbers are not correct in our case.

We are pleased with the reliability we get straight from the factory. We continue, however, to test and QC every unit that leaves our warehouse.

Appreciate the input and your expertise on electronics.

Geo


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Then what are the numbers?

J.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

JohnJ80 said:


> Then what are the numbers?
> 
> J.


You are asking for sales/return data from a retailer. You simply cannot expect to get that from any business. While we all would love to have that info, it is closely guarded (and rightfully so) in a competitive marketplace.


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

*Battery life?*

Can someone tell me what the battery life of the MS battery is? How many recharge can it handle? And does it have an accidental overcharge prevention feature?

Is the LED or the chip or whatever you call the part that controls the light protected by heat? I read somewhere about some thermal paste.


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

gmcttr said:


> Well, since they are advertised as having *2.4A* on high, I'd say that would be the place for you to start looking.


My point was that, with a P7, which is a quad-die emitter, you need to apply 2.8A to get the 900 lumens. Even Seoul states that the "typical" output is 700, with a max of 900. If they're only running 2.4A through the emitter, then the luminous flux "should" be ~640 lumens (straight from Seoul's datasheet).

Which goes back to my disappointment in the performance of an advertised 900 lumen light.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

gmcttr said:


> You are asking for sales/return data from a retailer. You simply cannot expect to get that from any business. While we all would love to have that info, it is closely guarded (and rightfully so) in a competitive marketplace.


Then he shouldn't be making the claim. If you can't walk the talk, then don't join in. I wouldn't reveal my sales information either, but I also wouldn't confront something like that if I couldn't or wouldn't prove it either. That comes under the heading of sales promotion and doesn't belong here.

How fair is it to say "you're wrong because I say so?" Frankly, that's ridiculous.

J.


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## Outsider (Jan 1, 2007)

dnlwthrn said:


> My point was that, with a P7, which is a quad-die emitter, you need to apply 2.8A to get the 900 lumens. Even Seoul states that the "typical" output is 700, with a max of 900. If they're only running 2.4A through the emitter, then the luminous flux "should" be ~640 lumens (straight from Seoul's datasheet).
> 
> Which goes back to my disappointment in the performance of an advertised 900 lumen light.


One can of course be disappointed just because the claim is wrong. Unfortunately that is widespread even among makers of lights, as witnessed by this report from Light & Motion.

However, in practice it should not take much googling to find out that the MagicShine uses C-bin leds, rated max 700-800 lumens. Driving it at 2.4A instead of 2.8A gives even less output and adding light losses in the reflector and front glass gives an output in practice of about 450-550 lumens, which might be slightly less than from e.g. Lupine Tesla. The variations between individual samples of the MagicShine is probably larger than that of more expensive lights, though.

Still, the MagicShine markets itself in the internet and all the information is out there to look for before making a purchase, so I don't see much room for disappointment.


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

Outsider said:


> Still, the MagicShine markets itself in the internet and all the information is out there to look for before making a purchase, so I don't see much room for disappointment.


Yes, all the above is understood. As I said in my original post, the Magicshine is a great light for its price. I guess I was expecting better, that's all.

My real reason for doing the comparison was because I'm contemplating using P7 leds in my next homebrew. Now that I've seen the Magicshine, I'm not sure I'll bother. I can be fairly content now with my current setup.


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## Outsider (Jan 1, 2007)

dnlwthrn said:


> Yes, all the above is understood. As I said in my original post, the Magicshine is a great light for its price. I guess I was expecting better, that's all.
> 
> My real reason for doing the comparison was because I'm contemplating using P7 leds in my next homebrew. Now that I've seen the Magicshine, I'm not sure I'll bother. I can be fairly content now with my current setup.


Agreed. I don't think it is worthwhile to make a P7 based homebrew after the MagicShine came out. The XP-G is another matter, however.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Outsider said:


> However, in practice it should not take much googling to find out that the MagicShine uses C-bin leds, rated max 700-800 lumens.


While it is probably true the MC like most of the DX lights don't use the bins they claim there is no real way to prove it. The individual LEDs don't get stamped with the bin.


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## VaskaS (Aug 19, 2009)

djork said:


> Can someone tell me what the battery life of the MS battery is? How many recharge can it handle? And does it have an accidental overcharge prevention feature?
> 
> Is the LED or the chip or whatever you call the part that controls the light protected by heat? I read somewhere about some thermal paste.


Someone can tell you something about MS batteries 

First of all, unlike LUPINE and other well-known brands MS battery has no balancing cirquit inside, which means that after some time of exploitation can be seen some difference between charge level of series-connected cells. Internal overcharge/overdischarge cirquit monitors the cells separately, and when one of the cells reaches its charge level the cirquit disconnects the whole battery in spite of undercharge of the other cell. So at the end of charge one of the cells has higher tension than the other. When this battery is connected to the burning light the cell with lower voltage determines the moment of switching the battery off, because the battery is monitored by the same overcharge/overdischarge cirquit, that indicates low voltage of the weaker cell and its FET switch disconnects the whole battery. Such disbalance grows with time because of the difference of self-discharge current of the cells composing the battery. Once upon a time the owner of MS battery findes out that charge time has shortened to 20 min and so has the runtime. It doesn't mean that the сells are degraded: they are simply disbalanced. The problem can be fixed by discharging the сell with higher voltage to the level of the lower one through the punctures in the battery cover, and for some rather long period of time the battery returnes to it's initial capacity.
Here in Russia approximately every tenth MS purchaser receives initially disbalanced battery.
By the way, Geoman's words about MS "smart charger" are far from reality: MS charger is the most primitive, and the only "smart" element in the charger/battery tandem is protection cirquit inside the battery.


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

VaskaS said:


> Someone can tell you something about MS batteries


I can tell you that I raced a 12 hour event on Saturday, along with a bunch of other Socal MS "fanboys" and we all had the same experience: three hours and 45 minutes on high beam @38 degrees, no failures.

To the geeks out there this is subjective and therefore meaningless but to the racers who used these lights it means a lot.


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

JohnJ80 said:


> That comes under the heading of sales promotion and doesn't belong here.
> 
> How fair is it to say "you're wrong because I say so?" Frankly, that's ridiculous.
> 
> J.


*Geoman* - please consider placing a $2 ad per MTBR policy, so JohnJ80 can shut his whiny E-piehole.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

FM said:


> *Geoman* - please consider placing a $2 ad per MTBR policy, so JohnJ80 can shut his whiny E-piehole.


he's got an ad in the classifieds.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

FM said:


> *Geoman* - please consider placing a $2 ad per MTBR policy, so JohnJ80 can shut his whiny E-piehole.


How about placing a real banner ad that might give back for all he's gotten?

J.:thumbsup:


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

JohnJ80 said:


> How about placing a real banner ad that might give back for all he's gotten?
> 
> J.:thumbsup:


he's got one of those too.... look to your right. :thumbsup:

ps - I got no dog in this fight, but you do seem to be on your own little crusade, at this point.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

d365 said:


> he's got one of those too.... look to your right. :thumbsup:
> 
> ps - I got no dog in this fight, but you do seem to be on your own little crusade, at this point.


*Even I* noticed the classifieds ad, and banner ad. 
CDT


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Sorry I missed that. I have an ad blocker plug in.

That be what is, there should not be sales promotion and customer service going on here. The ad thing is a deflection from that issue.

Hey, I'd be ok if they set up forums here specifically for a given light manufacturer. They do that on Candlepowerforums and it works fine. Otherwise it's sort of like those telemarketers that call you right at dinner time.

J.


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## BlueMountain (Nov 8, 2006)

Certainly interesting information and goes hand-in-hand with many comments we have seen. I am very curious why this is being billed as a "smart" charger. Surely it has nothing to do with pushing sales, does it? Then again, we come back to the pricepoint and at $85 per light, why should anyone care, right? Thanks, VascaS!



VaskaS said:


> Someone can tell you something about MS batteries
> 
> First of all, unlike LUPINE and other well-known brands MS battery has no balancing cirquit inside, which means that after some time of exploitation can be seen some difference between charge level of series-connected cells. Internal overcharge/overdischarge cirquit monitors the cells separately, and when one of the cells reaches its charge level the cirquit disconnects the whole battery in spite of undercharge of the other cell. So at the end of charge one of the sells has higher tension than the other. When this battery is connected to the burning light the cell with lower voltage determines the moment of switching the battery off, because the battery is monitored by the same overcharge/overdischarge cirquit, that indicates low voltage of the weaker cell and its FET switch disconnects the whole battery. Such disbalance grows with time because of the difference of self-discharge current of the cells composing the battery. Once upon a time the owner of MS battery finds out that charge time has shortened to 20 min and so has the runtime. It doesn't mean that the sells are degraded: they are simply disbalanced. The problem can be fixed by discharging the sell with higher voltage to the level of the lower one through the punctures in the battery cover, and for some rather long period of time the battery returnes to it's initial capacity.
> Here in Russia approximately every tenth MS purchaser receives initially disbalanced battery.
> By the way, Geoman's words about MS "smart charger" are far from reality: MS charger is the most primitive, and the only "smart" element in the charger/battery tandem is protection cirquit inside the battery.


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

JohnJ80 said:


> Sorry I missed that. I have an ad blocker plug in.
> 
> That be what is, there should not be sales promotion and customer service going on here. The ad thing is a deflection from that issue.
> 
> ...


Moving the goalposts again huh?
You make an interesting point; Dave Turner often comments in the Turner bikes forum and his input is always timely and much appreciated. Geoman's comments are also timely and much appreciated (by everyone except you); maybe it is time to create a "Magicshine" forum. Would that satisfy you? It would certainly be a busy place.


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## caminoloco (Jan 13, 2008)

I think all this "free promotion" from the community concerning the MS light stems from years of frustration: most bikers lusted for a good bike light, but few actually bought one because of the pretty ridiculous pricing of those units - kind of frustrating for most of us...

Now comes along this light that performs pretty darn good, with a price tag that without a doubt seems reasonable. I think people are venting their long frustration (not being able to ride decently in the dark does that to you  ) by screaming off the rooftops how good the MS is. Kind of a subconscious payback time ?

As for my humble experience, after years of frustration I did fork over a bunch for an expensive light, a Petzl Ultra. I couldn't use it very well for biking, it doesn't sit on a helmet well, but it earned its keep working in the dark and dark places. I'm very happy with it, I especially like the way it lights up everything with its wide beam.
Out of curiosity I ordered a MS... that's what a 85$ price tag does to people... I doubt a year ago anyone ordered a decent bike light "just to see what all the fuss was about" .
I compared the two: the MS has a much more narrow beam pattern and is a bit more powerful then the Petzl. And I think it's very well made at that price point ! You see some cheapo parts (that battery pouch...), but the overall impression is definitely ok.

Would I buy the Petzl again now ? Definitely, because I almost daily need a comfortable, well-made and serious headlamp. And that super wide beam is awesome.

Would I buy the MS again ? Ofcourse, in fact I'm going to order a second one. No big deal now that I've become accustomed to some of those prices... those two complete MS units will be cheaper then the one extra 4-cell battery I got for the Petzl... 

With two of those I'm gonna light up those trails - finally, after all those years of frustration .


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

VaskaS said:


> Someone can tell you something about MS batteries
> 
> First of all, unlike LUPINE and other well-known brands MS battery has no balancing cirquit inside, which means that after some time of exploitation can be seen some difference between charge level of series-connected cells. Internal overcharge/overdischarge cirquit monitors the cells separately, and when one of the cells reaches its charge level the cirquit disconnects the whole battery in spite of undercharge of the other cell. So at the end of charge one of the sells has higher tension than the other. When this battery is connected to the burning light the cell with lower voltage determines the moment of switching the battery off, because the battery is monitored by the same overcharge/overdischarge cirquit, that indicates low voltage of the weaker cell and its FET switch disconnects the whole battery. Such disbalance grows with time because of the difference of self-discharge current of the cells composing the battery. Once upon a time the owner of MS battery finds out that charge time has shortened to 20 min and so has the runtime. It doesn't mean that the sells are degraded: they are simply disbalanced. The problem can be fixed by discharging the sell with higher voltage to the level of the lower one through the punctures in the battery cover, and for some rather long period of time the battery returnes to it's initial capacity.
> Here in Russia approximately every tenth MS purchaser receives initially disbalanced battery.
> By the way, Geoman's words about MS "smart charger" are far from reality: MS charger is the most primitive, and the only "smart" element in the charger/battery tandem is protection cirquit inside the battery.


Thank you for the technical information. How many brands follow a similar design though? I've been doing just a little bit of research as a prospective customer and it always seemed to me that "smart chargers" simply implied a protection circuit except for maybe the really nice lights. Don't most homebrew designs use a similar battery too?


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

I have been researching batteries myself in the past month or so and boomn is right. The main group doing the balanced battery design is the RC guys. Most other battery packs don't offer a 'ballance' circuit. The hard core DIY light guys charge their batts separately to avoid that issue. You can do the same if you are that concerned about balance.

IMHO


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## AceMulder (Sep 28, 2006)

RichardL said:


> I'm really happy that most of you guys like your MagicShines but they are not the only light available on the market. No matter what the question on this forum the inevitable answer is "Buy a MagicShine"!
> Lots of my friends have bought them, from Deal Extreme, and in fairness most are very pleased but they are not perfect! Quite a few arrived DOA, there is no way their output is 900 lumens and the build quality and finish is not great! We ride twice a week off-road at night typically in damp, Irish conditions, and already a couple of sets are giving problems!
> It seems to me the bottom line is that MagicShines are amazing lights for the money but they are not the be-all and end-all of bike lights!
> Personally I will continue to use an Exposure light on my bars and I have just ordered a Lupine for my helmet!


That's fine if you want to continue to pay a lot more money for marginally better (if that) performance. The point is most of us either can't afford or refuse to pay (or simply can't justify) $350 to $400 or more for lights. Don't get me wrong because you may be the exception, but this proves the age-old marketing axiom that if you charge a higher price for the same thing some people will buy it simply because they equate higher price with better quality. I think that's what is happening with some people--they simply can't accept that an $85 light can perform as well (or close to as well) as a $350 to $400 light. Either that or they are trying to justify paying 4 or 5 times more for their light.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I got to check into Magic Shine too. I thougt it was shoe polish! Thanks Guys. :thumbsup:


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

sdcadbiker said:


> Moving the goalposts again huh?
> You make an interesting point; Dave Turner often comments in the Turner bikes forum and his input is always timely and much appreciated. Geoman's comments are also timely and much appreciated (by everyone except you); maybe it is time to create a "Magicshine" forum. Would that satisfy you? It would certainly be a busy place.


Not moving the goalposts at all. The idea is that biases must be disclosed up front. Statements made that can't be challenged ("we don't disclose ..... etc..") are not appropriate.

A separate mfgs forum is would be entirely appropriate and would be an equitable solution, I think.

I agree that much here has been appropriate. When it gets to talk that is sales and promotional or customer service then it ought to be somewhere else. I, for one, would consider that when I buy stuff. I'm sure I'm not the only one either. For example, I don't buy from those that do the telemarketing thing at dinner time - I make it a point not to. YMMV.

"Don't use mtbr to get free money for your business" from the guidelines. Participate in the discussion, but don't use it as a sales tool is how I read that.

J.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

JohnJ80 said:


> Not moving the goalposts at all. The idea is that biases must be disclosed up front. Statements made that can't be challenged ("we don't disclose ..... etc..") are not appropriate.
> 
> A separate mfgs forum is would be entirely appropriate and would be an equitable solution, I think.
> 
> ...


You have also been asking very direct questions about areas where his only possible responses are "I can't disclose that" or actually disclosing information you said you knew he couldn't disclose.


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## windhoar (Oct 24, 2005)

JohnJ80 said:


> Not moving the goalposts at all. The idea is that biases must be disclosed up front. Statements made that can't be challenged ("we don't disclose ..... etc..") are not appropriate.
> 
> A separate mfgs forum is would be entirely appropriate and would be an equitable solution, I think.
> 
> ...


Quite frankly, I couldn't care less about your interpretation of the guidelines. That is up to the Moderators, not you. Your unwillingness to let this go leads me to believe that you have a financial interest in the Magic Shine lights not selling well.

You like to ask pointed questions. Let me ask you one: What is your true motivation for posting on this thread?


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

We apparently don't agree. It's a great country, isn't it?

Full disclosure: I have no association with any light manufacturer, bike component manufacturer, LED manufacturer. I receive no compensation from any of the above either now or in the past. I have no interest in developing a bike light solution either now or in the past.

My motivation is simply that I don't think that customer service information is appropriate here nor do I like to be sold to when trying to discuss this stuff. That's it, nothing more. I believe I am entitled to an opinion as are you. I believe I'm also entitled to not be personally attacked for expressing it.

The specific case where I conjectured about failure rates (based on some actual engineering experience), then supplier comes back and says that was not the case and then won't back it up is the issue. If you won't back it up, then don't comment. Why would you except "Trust me, you're wrong." from anyone else? I sure wouldn't.

This is getting repetitious, but I'm happy to keep holding up my end of this argument. Especially as long as people keep making it into a personal issue. 

J.


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## windhoar (Oct 24, 2005)

Why then don't you take it up with one of the Moderators? If MTBR is OK with it, then who are you to complain about what is posted here.

You're like a guy on the side of the road holding up a sign complaining that everyone driving 30 miles an hour in a 30 mile an hour zone is going too fast. The enforcement authorities don't care because the drivers are within the law.

It it is the same situation here. Unless it is determined that Geoman is violating the rules, you are just the guy with the sign. Yep, you have an opinion. However, not every opinion is rational or reasonable.


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## HUGH (Jan 7, 2004)

While this is good stuff I'm off to go ride

HUGH


Oh and I bought 3 sets of Magicshines last Friday. I bought them from Geoman because of his ad on the right>>> and his presance on the boards:thumbsup:


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

I dont see why anyone would be pissed about the guy who sells the lights commenting on them, i think it would be weird if he didnt...and I think its about dang time that there is a bright , affordable light out there-its obscene how much a set of lights from one of the big manufactures cost, thats why i never purchased one! Ive been riding around with flashlights on my bars cause there just no way ill spend that kind of cash. I realize that to a certain extent you get what you pay for, but you dont have to spend 5,000 on a bike to enjoy the ride, so you shouldn't have to spend 400 to enjoy a night ride. You can spend 500 bucks on a bike and have fun, so hopefully the $85 light i just do the same job.


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## Corey52 (Jul 23, 2009)

HUGH said:


> Oh and I bought 3 sets of Magicshines last Friday. I bought them from Geoman because of his ad on the right>>> and his presance on the boards:thumbsup:


I bought both of my lights (One Airbike, one MagicShine) on account of he does interact with the membership here and has gotten the MS lights improved with feedback from this section.

I run a huge all Toyota off road site, and all of our vendors interact with the membership in answering questions.
And no, they do no disclose sales info, or would I expect them to.


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## Cyco-Dude (Feb 12, 2004)

AceMulder said:


> That's fine if you want to continue to pay a lot more money for marginally better (if that) performance. The point is most of us either can't afford or refuse to pay (or simply can't justify) $350 to $400 or more for lights. Don't get me wrong because you may be the exception, but this proves the age-old marketing axiom that if you charge a higher price for the same thing some people will buy it simply because they equate higher price with better quality. I think that's what is happening with some people--they simply can't accept that an $85 light can perform as well (or close to as well) as a $350 to $400 light. Either that or they are trying to justify paying 4 or 5 times more for their light.


well, light output is not the only variable here, you have the component quality, battery quality, charger etc. those higher-priced units tend to have higher quality parts. whether or not the price difference is fair is another matter, but frankly i would rather pay more for better batteries and a better charger (those two things right there will drive the cost up way high in very short order! ask anyone into rc stuff).


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## AceMulder (Sep 28, 2006)

Cyco-Dude said:


> well, light output is not the only variable here, you have the component quality, battery quality, charger etc. those higher-priced units tend to have higher quality parts. whether or not the price difference is fair is another matter, but frankly i would rather pay more for better batteries and a better charger (those two things right there will drive the cost up way high in very short order! ask anyone into rc stuff).


That's like saying you'd rather pay $8,000 for a bike with XTR as oppossed to $2,000 for a bike with XT. I am not claiming there isn't SOME difference--the point is you can't possibly justify the price difference between a $400 light and an $85 dollar light when the $85 dollar light is performing close to the same or the same (the same way an XT will perform close to XTR or in some cases better). Yes, XTR is better in terms of weight and in some cases performance, but it ain't $6,000 better--or said another way you can't justify paying 4 times as much for it.

Even if the Magic Shine lasts only a year, big deal--I can buy a new one every year for the next 4 years with the money I save on a more expensive light. And its not like I don't have a more expensive light--I have a NightRider that cost about $350 and the MagicShine is BETTER--its provides more light--it isn't quite as good at diffusing it but I prefer the brighter MS over the more diffused NR. Now, if MS was around when I bought the NR, I would never have bought it for that kind of money given the relative performance.


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## AceMulder (Sep 28, 2006)

Cyco-Dude said:


> i would rather pay more for better batteries and a better charger .


That's fine--you can go ahead and pay $400 for a light and when you and I are out on the trail, you won't have any significant advantage (and maybe none at all depending on the light) over my $85 light. All you'll have is the knowledge that your light is "better quality" and if that's worth an extra $315 to you, then that's fine--its not worth it to me or most of the rest of us.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

What are/is some good places for good Magic Shine deals?


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## AceMulder (Sep 28, 2006)

zarr said:


> What are/is some good places for good Magic Shine deals?


http://www.geomangear.com/index.php...ducts_id=138&zenid=t085smvidqv1339rt2dhs14vo3


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## khskenny (Sep 29, 2009)

Ordered 2 for the bars from GeoMan.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

AceMulder said:


> http://www.geomangear.com/index.php...ducts_id=138&zenid=t085smvidqv1339rt2dhs14vo3


Thanks. :thumbsup:


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## siwilliams (Jul 23, 2009)

khskenny said:


> Ordered 2 for the bars from GeoMan.


OK everybody. Lets stop talking these lights up.

My second MS has been on back order from DX for a month now, I can only imagine that Geoman with his better relationship with the supplier is getting priority supply.

I want my MS!


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

For those wanting to compare M.S. quality-price relationship to the "get what you pay for" with cars, bikes etc, recall the history of the electronics industry--Prices go down while features go up over time.

Sure, paying a lot more for a bike frame and components might give you more satisfaction and durability over a long period of time, but when it comes to the latest electronics, it's highly likely, no matter what you buy, that it will be not only rendered obsolete in two years, but the new stuff might cost a lot less.

I remember spending a boatload on a computer once, getting all the optimal parts like a SCSI drive interface to only see it junked just a few years later. I realized that I should have bought less than best and save the money instead. I still practice that with computers.

Lights seem the same way suddenly, especially with LEDs Seems every few months Cree, Seoul and Luxeon out do themselves and battery technology is suddenly moving at a rapid rate of improvement. What a nice combination for the portable light industry.

I have two halogen nite rider lights that barely light up the trail along with an HID that I feel I need to unload before it's actually worth more as sentimental value than useful value--it might already be there.

I tinkered with building my own LED lights over the last decade-- testing and storing parts in boxes in my garage and at the lab at my work, to finally just say screw it about six months ago

It might not be a surprise that M.S. is so cheap. Combine the advance in technology with cheap asian labor.

The M.S. light came out at the right time for me. It was cheap enough to mess with and short cut my tinkering. I got one expecting to have to fix it and mod the heck out of it.

But no, it's great....at least in the last couple months.


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## yokine (Aug 31, 2007)

I second (or third...) that the most important things about the Magicshines is that it has got people out riding at night who have never been before. A few of us here in Zurich, Switzerland have been doing summer evening rides for the past few years, but they go on hold when we lose the daylight. Now after a few of us have bought lights (from DX, free shipping to Europe) we are enjoying night riding. Previously I didn't have anyone to borrow lights from for a test ride or the inclination to spend 500- on lights for something unknown. Now I'm hooked and may well buy something more "solid" in the future *if* the Magicshines fail.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*wah...*



dnlwthrn said:


> My point was that, with a P7, which is a quad-die emitter, you need to apply 2.8A to get the 900 lumens. Even Seoul states that the "typical" output is 700, with a max of 900. If they're only running 2.4A through the emitter, then the luminous flux "should" be ~640 lumens (straight from Seoul's datasheet).
> 
> Which goes back to my disappointment in the performance of an advertised 900 lumen light.


I just did a night ride with my MagicShine on the lid and my old NightRider Digital Pro 12e on the bars.

I bought the DP12e from craigslist with a bad battery for $50, then blew another $50 on a batteryspace battery, and another $50 on a dewalt drill charger to be rigged with a connector to charge the battery. So, $150... and this was a pretty pimp setup 5 years ago. I did 3 24 hour races on it, plus many bike commuting trips.

The MagicShine smoked it. Better throw, better color, better spread. Plus, my DP12e battery is getting weak so I only got about an hour out of it on a mix of low and high. It self discharges pretty fast.

I also have a NR HeadTrip. $120, plus another $30 for the smart charger (which was total weaksauce that it wasn't included in the first place). Runtime is about an hour if I'm lucky. Only 10 watts, and still way heavier than the MagicShine.

What was it about being disappointed with an $85 light again? I mean so it doesn't kick out 900 lumens as claimed... the thing is still way frickin bright, and runs forever. For the price of the an equivalent competitor's light, you can buy two if not three MagicShines. I'm seriously thinking all the bishing about this light is not based in reality. Maybe it doesn't have the refinement of a $300 light, but IMO has all the real world performance, and the rest is just picking gnat shiz out of pepper.


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## bycyclist (Oct 13, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> For the price of the an equivalent competitor's light, you can buy two if not three MagicShines.


Exactly - I'd pretty much given up on night riding due to light costs, then saw the MS talk here. For less than 250 bones I've got THREE MS! Two on the handlebar, one for my helmet. Plenty of light regardless of the lumen claim or whatever that technobabble grip is about. I don't think anyone can touch that functionality for that value - 3 hrs.+ of high output lighting at that price. And Geoman's service is second to none. :thumbsup:


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

siwilliams said:


> OK everybody. Lets stop talking these lights up.
> 
> My second MS has been on back order from DX for a month now, I can only imagine that Geoman with his better relationship with the supplier is getting priority supply.
> 
> I want my MS!


It pays to treat your suppliers right...



Geo


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> What was it about being disappointed with an $85 light again? I mean so it doesn't kick out 900 lumens as claimed... the thing is still way frickin bright, and runs forever. For the price of the an equivalent competitor's light, you can buy two if not three MagicShines. I'm seriously thinking all the bishing about this light is not based in reality. Maybe it doesn't have the refinement of a $300 light, but IMO has all the real world performance, and the rest is just picking gnat shiz out of pepper.


Dude, relax! Why is it that people have to get all defensive about their product? I was just stating an honest review of a bike light that everyone is raving about. My point of reference happens to be a homebrew light that I built in 2007 for 50% more than the cost of the Magicshine. I was merely comparing the beam pattern of the two lights and mentioned how I was expecting more from the MS for some reason.

Give it a rest already! If you read my first post in this thread, I said that I didn't think you could beat the MS for the money!


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## DirtyMtnBikeHer (Jul 30, 2009)

I have been following several of the lighting threads for a few weeks and decided since I had little money to spend I would take the plunge on a Magicshine. I am happy I did! It is not as bright as advertised but knew that beforehand from reading the threads. It is bright and does seem to have great battery power. I'm sure there are better lights. The Magicshie is all about bang for the buck. After riding last night and seeing three other riders out of only about 10-15 with Magicshines it is obvious the porduct is gettng more people out at night. After the past two nights I am in love with night riding so thank you Magicshine (and GeoMan too). Like yokine I too will eventually invest in something else if the Magicshine doesn't last.


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## dcc1234 (Nov 5, 2008)

Mr. Geo,

Seems like the screw in plastic clip attached to the light housing may be a 'weak link' in the MS system. 

I know you have dealt with some broken ones that you (presumably) have replaced under warranty. What about when our 90 day warranty is up? How about stocking this $3.00 piece of plastic, so if it breaks after the warranty is lapsed-- we won't be stuck with a useless light? Is this possible? TIA


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Hmmm, we've only had two such failures. I'll get some just in case so we have them on hand.

Geo


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## dcc1234 (Nov 5, 2008)

GEOMAN said:


> Hmmm, we've only had two such failures. I'll get some just in case so we have them on hand.
> 
> Geo


great- Thank you!


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

GEOMAN said:


> Hmmm, we've only had two such failures. I'll get some just in case so we have them on hand.
> 
> Geo


Hey Geo,

This is a segue but... how about some of the other suggestions that folks have made? Particularly regarding batteries; bigger & smaller, I'd buy both. I need a half-size cell for my helmet, one that weighs about the same as the head unit for balance; also I need an extended life battery for longer races (2X standard?). I realise that this poses some charging issues but I'm also prepared to to pay for a better charger...

Both of the above are available via DIY...


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## AceMulder (Sep 28, 2006)

sdcadbiker said:


> Hey Geo,
> 
> This is a segue but... how about some of the other suggestions that folks have made? Particularly regarding batteries; bigger & smaller, I'd buy both. I need a half-size cell for my helmet, one that weighs about the same as the head unit for balance; also I need an extended life battery for longer races (2X standard?). I realise that this poses some charging issues but I'm also prepared to to pay for a better charger...
> 
> Both of the above are available via DIY...


Can't you just use two batteries with a Y cable? Or is that for running two lights off of one battery?


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

zarr said:


> What are/is some good places for good Magic Shine deals?


The Original, long before Geoman showed up on the scene.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25149


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Looks like the same thing. Any difference?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I did a real ride with mine tonight....*



AceMulder said:


> Can't you just use two batteries with a Y cable? Or is that for running two lights off of one battery?


... and I found the high/medium/low/flash/sos -> off annoying.

If I could change one thing about this light, it would be to add the ability to turn the light down, and back up to high again without having to turn it off.

Like I said before, my other lights work by tapping the light button, to turn it up, and hold it down to turn it down, the hold again to turn it off.

Hmmmm... has anybody DIY-ed a different driver board in there?

BTW, the light is amazing... even on low.


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

radirpok said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> While there certainly is depreciation - as in the case of basically all kinds of goods purchased - you may be surprised that sometimes it is far from "worth squat next year".
> I can speak from personal experience, since I've sold a Dinotte 600 light last year - after more than 1 year of happy use - in _Europe_, where this light is basically unknown. It was sold for about 2/3 of the original price (MSRP?) I bought it for. I put a great amount of use into this light and was very happy with the money I got for it.
> Also, I happen to regularly check the German ebay for Lupine lights (there were times when I was very interested in buying a used Wilma head) - and the MSRP 320 EUR lightheads regularly sell for ~200 EUR. That was actually one of the reasons why I didn't buy one second-hand - it was not worth it, since I could get a new lighthead for just a bit more!
> ...


Well put...:thumbsup:


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

VaskaS said:


> Someone can tell you something about MS batteries
> 
> First of all, unlike LUPINE and other well-known brands MS battery has no balancing cirquit inside, which means that after some time of exploitation can be seen some difference between charge level of series-connected cells. Internal overcharge/overdischarge cirquit monitors the cells separately, and when one of the cells reaches its charge level the cirquit disconnects the whole battery in spite of undercharge of the other cell. So at the end of charge one of the cells has higher tension than the other. When this battery is connected to the burning light the cell with lower voltage determines the moment of switching the battery off, because the battery is monitored by the same overcharge/overdischarge cirquit, that indicates low voltage of the weaker cell and its FET switch disconnects the whole battery. Such disbalance grows with time because of the difference of self-discharge current of the cells composing the battery. Once upon a time the owner of MS battery findes out that charge time has shortened to 20 min and so has the runtime. It doesn't mean that the сells are degraded: they are simply disbalanced. The problem can be fixed by discharging the сell with higher voltage to the level of the lower one through the punctures in the battery cover, and for some rather long period of time the battery returnes to it's initial capacity.
> Here in Russia approximately every tenth MS purchaser receives initially disbalanced battery.
> By the way, Geoman's words about MS "smart charger" are far from reality: MS charger is the most primitive, and the only "smart" element in the charger/battery tandem is protection cirquit inside the battery.


The MS pack is only two sets of two batteries in series. Generally balancing is more important in large packs (>12 cells). Protection is necessary but I don't think balancing significantly improves the performance or life of such a small pack.

I think is the case of a poor pack in the MS case, it's a problem with a cell and not the lack of a balancing circuit--which is not necessarily a surprise.

http://www.micro-power.com/userfiles/file/mp_batteryarray-revised2-1246386249.pdf


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

Hopped in the MS bandwagon and got one. I'm a bit impressed by the construction of the light unit. It looks better in person than in pics posted online. That was my gripe but now that I have one in person, I like the design. 

Anyway, quick question. I read somewhere that the MS lights up when you connect it to the battery. Mine lit up when I was plugging it to the battery but then it turned off. Is it supposed to remain lit until turned off? Once battery was plugged to light I had to turn it on manually by pressing the button in back.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

djork said:


> Anyway, quick question. I read somewhere that the MS lights up when you connect it to the battery. Mine lit up when I was plugging it to the battery but then it turned off. Is it supposed to remain lit until turned off? Once battery was plugged to light I had to turn it on manually by pressing the button in back.


My experience is that it lights up when it's plugged in most of the time. But sometimes you get "bounce" where when you plug it in, you make a momentary connection, it flashes then it's off. I think if you "bounce" it you put it into the off mode.

Do you see this everytime?


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

Is "bouncing" bad for the battery or light unit? Like a short?


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

Doesn't seem to be; I do it every time I plug it in so I don't have to cycle through the modes to "off", it hasn't blown up yet...


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

djork said:


> Is "bouncing" bad for the battery or light unit? Like a short?


Not bad at all. It just tricks the logic into another mode. It's like a bad key on a calculator that put up two or more characters when you press the key.


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## NewNRS3 (May 10, 2008)

Does anyone know why one of the newer 5 mode units would suddenly decide to only have 3 modes (High,Medium -might be Low, hard to tell -, and steady (2 per sec.) flashing)? I actually prefer it as low is not really used and the flash mode at the moment is better than the rapid and SOS. I only used it outside for about 1/2 hour and the indicator is still green. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this.


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## wmyoungers (Dec 4, 2009)

*What mods if any?*

Hi everyone :thumbsup: 
I have to confess a few thinks before I start:
1. I don't own a MTB
2. I have just ordered a MS from DX (on order ), partially as I hadn't heard of Mr. Geoman  and partially due to the free shipping to the UK
Anyway I just joined in to ask you good folk if when I receive my MS, should I be looking to do some basic modifications and if so, which web pages should I look at? Also I intend to mount this light on the front of my dutch town bike which has been safe and sound in my garage for the past month due to the terrible weather, any ideas how to/where to get the bits to do it
As for the pros and cons of this light, it's always nice to have the best lights going, but if your budget doesn't go that far, it is very nice to have the best lights for your money!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yes, it has.*



RichardL said:


> I'm really happy that most of you guys like your MagicShines but they are not the only light available on the market. No matter what the question on this forum the inevitable answer is "Buy a MagicShine"!
> Lots of my friends have bought them, from Deal Extreme, and in fairness most are very pleased but they are not perfect! Quite a few arrived DOA, there is no way their output is 900 lumens and the build quality and finish is not great! We ride twice a week off-road at night typically in damp, Irish conditions, and already a couple of sets are giving problems!
> It seems to me the bottom line is that MagicShines are amazing lights for the money but they are not the be-all and end-all of bike lights!
> Personally I will continue to use an Exposure light on my bars and I have just ordered a Lupine for my helmet!


I just had to say it again.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> I just had to say it again.


But check this out.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=570303&page=2

BTW, your quote fits perfectly...with a minor adjustment.

"Light: Cheap, Strong, Bling... pick three"


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

just like you don't mess with the Zohan, ...you don't mess with the Magic Shine. :nono:


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## SilverXC (Feb 18, 2009)

*Magic Shine 3mode vs. 5mode*

Any one knows if there is some upgrades (construction upg.) in new 5 mode light? Maybe it is only new PCB which controls the led and gives 2 more modes ?
I dont know which to choose


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

The 5 mode Magicshine is the latest model and includes upgraded thermal transfer and some production improvements, change in cabling, charger, etc. 

The 3 mode model was manufactured until mid-2009.

Geo


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## Lugi (Jul 10, 2009)

Well, went on my first official night ride the other night with my new Magicshine (my son had one too) and my light cast such a shadow over the guy in front of me that he had trouble seeing. The other guy had a brand new Stella 150 and the Magicshine blew its doors in(we also did a side by side and it was not even close). Needless to say he was quite pissed when I told him how much I paid for it, compared to what he paid for his. 2.5 hour ride and the light was as bright as it was when I turned it on, and it was only around 20 degrees out also. Very impressed. Forwarded Geomans link to both of these guys and they both said they were going to get them..


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Lugi said:


> Well, went on my first official night ride the other night with my new Magicshine (my son had one too) and my light cast such a shadow over the guy in front of me that he had trouble seeing. The other guy had a brand new Stella 150 and the Magicshine blew its doors in(we also did a side by side and it was not even close). Needless to say he was quite pissed when I told him how much I paid for it, compared to what he paid for his. 2.5 hour ride and the light was as bright as it was when I turned it on, and it was only around 20 degrees out also. Very impressed. Forwarded Geomans link to both of these guys and they both said they were going to get them..


Thanks Lugi!

We appreciate the support very much.

Geo


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## Corey52 (Jul 23, 2009)

The testimonials of the MS light speak for themselves.
A guy here at work is now interested in getting a few too for some night riding/early morning riding.


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## grifter9311 (Apr 28, 2006)

caminoloco said:


> I think all this "free promotion" from the community concerning the MS light stems from years of frustration: most bikers lusted for a good bike light, but few actually bought one because of the pretty ridiculous pricing of those units - kind of frustrating for most of us...
> 
> Now comes along this light that performs pretty darn good, with a price tag that without a doubt seems reasonable. I think people are venting their long frustration (not being able to ride decently in the dark does that to you  ) by screaming off the rooftops how good the MS is. Kind of a subconscious payback time ?
> 
> ...


Same experience as you have had. I bought a Petzl last weekend @ REI, while i was looking for a light so i wouldnt get hurt riding. And i am talking about the 3/4 of a mile it takes me to get from my house to the beach boardwalk @ night..... Drivers are brutal sometimes and dont get me wrong i get what they are staring @ but C'mon park your car and admire the women... Anyhow I bought my petzl myo xp which is a great light and thought it would have to do since i wasn't going to shell out $400+ for a riding light ATM....

So i started looking and found this light on my Candlepower forum and used the search button and was curious enough to buy into the the MS hype.. $85 to get a decent light with some tweaking it could be made into {for my purposes} great light?? So i got it from Geo. And this thing is amazing!!!!!!!.....

I know night rider and others make a great product. They have refined the tech and design of the lights and accessories and coupled it with great CS for existing and potential consumer base. The buy in steep and the up keep is steep. Which is understandable. I know some of the DIY guys can do better and that's also great. But to a layman @ the DYI game and that's most riders out there. The affordability of the light is amazing. Compared to what is currently on the market. And instead of having buyers remorse i feel that i as a consumer, is getting a steal of a deal for my needs. I live in Santa Monica which is by the beach in Los Angeles. Rain & cold aren't a huge concern, but drivers with adhd is a different story. If not fot the MS i would be on my rollers or trainer doing my base miles.

I know how that sounds but i have seen about 4 accidents already involving riders and cars/doggy death leashes/ people running out into the streets ...etc 
And it all happened @ night time with decent visability. You can tell the people with bright lights at least have a chance of avoiding some of these situations. Becasue the ones who went down had the crappy serfas lights the ones who had the rubber down had the better equipment. So thanks to makers and to the more riders who will be able to afford better equipment to ride. I turned my $85 petzl into my running light. which i find amusing.

Thanks for being helpful and be safe out there.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Great feedback, Grifter. Thanks!

Geo


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

I want to add something here. 

I got several of these lights at the beginning of last summer from dealextreme. Sorry geoman but I will make it up to you at the end of this. I didn't know of you then.

I started talking about them at work this fall when the days got shorter. I took them on a Boulder Mountain bike alliance ride and showed them off. Took them to a Boulder bike patrol meeting and showed them off. 

Next thing you know, the bike patrol made a big order from geoman.

A coworker bought one from me since I thought my 4 were too many to have.

Then he bought another and told a couple people and suddenly they are sending geoman orders.

Dan told me today that he ordered a kit for his Rocky mountain rescue activities yesterday and he got it today. 

They thought H1N1 virus was going to be had, but this is the real epidemic.

Everyone seems to be so impressed.


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## digibud (Sep 21, 2009)

even though I only get about 30 minutes per charge, being able to buy three of them at a reasonable price makes having the spare batteries ready affordable. I was looking for really poor alternatives before running into magicshines. in today's rip off world of exhorbitant pricing for so many items, getting good value is much appreciated.

btw...the short run times are simply due to cold temps. I live in Alaska and I got the same thing (30 min...40 if lucky) from Minewt Duals. If anyone thinks MS should last a couple of hours at 0deg F or colder...I'd be interested to hear that. From what I have researched I've learned that NiCads create their own internal heat and once you start using them they can stay warm if insulated simply because they heat up a bit. Not so with Lithium Ion. So I'm not complaining. When it's dark in Alaska, it's cold. In the summer a light is never needed. In the Winter the cold eats batteries. I ride with two lights and keep a spare battery available. Works for me.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

digibud said:


> even though I only get about 30 minutes per charge, being able to buy three of them at a reasonable price makes having the spare batteries ready affordable. I was looking for really poor alternatives before running into magicshines. in today's rip off world of exhorbitant pricing for so many items, getting good value is much appreciated.
> 
> btw...the short run times are simply due to cold temps. I live in Alaska and I got the same thing (30 min...40 if lucky) from Minewt Duals. If anyone thinks MS should last a couple of hours at 0deg F or colder...I'd be interested to hear that. From what I have researched I've learned that NiCads create their own internal heat and once you start using them they can stay warm if insulated simply because they heat up a bit. Not so with Lithium Ion. So I'm not complaining. When it's dark in Alaska, it's cold. In the summer a light is never needed. In the Winter the cold eats batteries. I ride with two lights and keep a spare battery available. Works for me.


Do you get 30 minutes until the light totally shuts off or is it 30 minutes until the low battery indicator turns red. In cold weather, the light will actually run a long time after the indicator turns red. The indicator is very inaccurate at cold temps.


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

digibud said:


> If anyone thinks MS should last a couple of hours at 0deg F or colder...I'd be interested to hear that.


Not exactly at 0deg F, but at 10deg F (-12deg C), after 2 hours ride the MS (and all other brands with simmilar Li-Ion batteries, for that matter) were still happily shining into the freezing night.....


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## digibud (Sep 21, 2009)

I'll have to make some notes and observations next time I get out. I messed up my shoulder and its been a while since I've been able to get out and ride. Even with studded tires I'm a bit wary at this point but I'll report with more clarity when I have a chance. My recollection was about half and hour before the warning light came on and then about 15 min. beyond that. But it could have easily been at -20F or I may have had two lights connected so I may have spoken too quickly on a subject folks really want solid information on. My apologies for that. Next time I chime in, I'll take some care to be more precise. I do know that at around 0F I don't get anywhere near three hours. That much I can say with confidence.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

lidarman said:


> I want to add something here.
> 
> I got several of these lights at the beginning of last summer from dealextreme. Sorry geoman but I will make it up to you at the end of this. I didn't know of you then.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Lidarman, for your comments. We sincerely appreciate the support we've received on the Magicshine 900's. We receive messages every day thanking us for bringing an affordable high-output LED bike light to market so more folks can night ride or commute home more safely. Rescue groups have snapped them up all over the country, as well. The feedback has been great. It is gratifying, to say the least.

Geo


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Sounds like....*



digibud said:


> even though I only get about 30 minutes per charge, being able to buy three of them at a reasonable price makes having the spare batteries ready affordable. I was looking for really poor alternatives before running into magicshines. in today's rip off world of exhorbitant pricing for so many items, getting good value is much appreciated.
> 
> btw...the short run times are simply due to cold temps. I live in Alaska and I got the same thing (30 min...40 if lucky) from Minewt Duals. If anyone thinks MS should last a couple of hours at 0deg F or colder...I'd be interested to hear that. From what I have researched I've learned that NiCads create their own internal heat and once you start using them they can stay warm if insulated simply because they heat up a bit. Not so with Lithium Ion. So I'm not complaining. When it's dark in Alaska, it's cold. In the summer a light is never needed. In the Winter the cold eats batteries. I ride with two lights and keep a spare battery available. Works for me.


... you should keep your battery in an internal jacket pocket and run the cable out your sleeve or out the bottom of your jacket or something with a quick disconnect where it meets the bike.


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> ... you should keep your battery in an internal jacket pocket and run the cable out your sleeve or out the bottom of your jacket or something with a quick disconnect where it meets the bike.


That would work for a helmet light but it's a really bad idea for a rider to tether himself to his bike in any way, so if the light is mounted on the bike so should be the battery.


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## Hewie (May 20, 2007)

So I read when you plug the battery into the MS, the light flashes once. When I plug mine in, it goes to on. Anyone else have this condition?
Dave


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

Sometimes my MS goes to full power when I plug it in, but mostly it just flashes. It Doesn´t really bother me though  .


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## sdcadbiker (Jun 20, 2008)

Yes, that's just how it works. Two options:
1. Immediately unplug the light, then plug it back in; the light will stay off.
2. Press & hold the light switch for two seconds, the light will go out.

Not really a big deal either way.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Hewie said:


> So I read when you plug the battery into the MS, the light flashes once. When I plug mine in, it goes to on. Anyone else have this condition?
> Dave


It depends on how "cleanly" you plug the connectors together. If you plug them in "cleanly" without jiggling the connectors around the light usually comes on and stays on. If you jiggle them around so the power connects / disconnects / reconnects in the process of plugging them in, it usually flashes and end up in the off state.

More expensive drivers typically do a better job of initializing into a pre-determined state. The magicshine driver must have a fairly simple initialization sequence. I doubt many people care that much, but I could see it bugging some folks.


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## Hewie (May 20, 2007)

Thanks, that helps. I just wanted to verify I wasn't dealing with a possibly defective driver circuit.
Dave


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Look who sells the lights now...

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/LS275A00-Magicshine+Led+Lighting+System.aspx


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

I saw one in an lbs a couple of days ago. Great, a local supply...how many $'s I ask.

$185.95 ... I'll still buy from Geoman.


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## johnnyspoke (Sep 15, 2005)

lidarman said:


> Look who sells the lights now...
> 
> http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/LS275A00-Magicshine+Led+Lighting+System.aspx


Interesting. A dollar more than GEOMAN but jenson includes the helmet mount.


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