# Deore XT M730 front hub - technical question



## robinmiller (May 31, 2005)

I just picked up a NOS M730 hub on eBay, actually to use to build a wheel for my new bike project, a Rivendell Bleriot. If i'm not mistaken this hub could be anywhere from a 1987 to a 1993 model, with not much way to tell those years apart. 

Anyway, had a couple quick questions that i thought you guys might know the answers to.

The first is that i noticed two holes on each side of the hub in the plastic around the axle. There is a little "OPEN" sign with an arrow, and sure enough, if you rotate the plastic, the holes 'open', presumably giving access to the bearings. Are these grease injection ports? I didn't know Shimano used them. (picture attached)

The other thing is that the bearings feel a little grindy even thought the hub is NOS.. does anyone remember if these hubs were supposed to feel silky smooth when new? I was wondering if it was a sign that the old grease needed to be removed, or if it was just normal. I guess i was wondering whether i could just squirt some new grease in via the holes, or if i should totally take the hub apart, degrease, and reassemble.. The rotation does feel slightly viscous, making me think the old grease hadn't dried up.


Thanks,

robin


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

yes, those are grease ports. and yes, it is normal that they feel a bit rough when new. it is difficult to proof but my impression is that they run smoother when under tension from the QR skewer. leave them as they are!

there might be 2 letters close to the model number which stand for month and year of production, following that key

http://www.firstflightbikes.com/shimano.htm

Carsten


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

robinmiller said:


> I just picked up a NOS M730 hub on eBay, actually to use to build a wheel for my new bike project, a Rivendell Bleriot. If i'm not mistaken this hub could be anywhere from a 1987 to a 1993 model, with not much way to tell those years apart.
> 
> Anyway, had a couple quick questions that i thought you guys might know the answers to.
> 
> ...


They were never known to be super-duper smooth, but it probably wouldnt hurt to see if you can loosen it up a hair.

Yes, thats a grease port although not near as sophisticated as WTB's method.

The hubs should have two letters stamped onto it telling you when it was made, but I think youre right; that hub didnt change until 93 or so.

If I recall, the first letter represents the year: A=1976, B=1977, etc. The second letter is the month: A=January, etc..


----------



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

...and before you inject greast into those holes, clean them out real good or you'll just be pushing dirt into the bearings with the fresh grease.

The bearings shouldn't feel "grindy" if they are new. "Grindy" to me means there is dirt in with the bearings. Do you mean the axle is hard to turn with your bare hand? If so, that's normal with new Shimano hubs - especially ones that are approaching 15+ years of age. Sometimes, new Shimano hubs do feel a little grindy because they seem to be adjusted on the tight side at the factory in the anticipation of "wearing in." It's easy to readjust the bearings to make them feel smoother.


----------



## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

Those should feel smooth, and if they aren't, you probably just need to back off the cones a little bit. Taking the hub apart, cleaning, and re-greasing wouldn't hurt either. I'm pretty sure you want to set these up with a smidge of play in them. The quick-release, once properly tightened, will take up the play and give you a perfectly smooth hub on the bike. If you don't put a little bit of play in the hub, a tight QR could give you a hub that's a bit too tight.


----------



## robinmiller (May 31, 2005)

Thanks.. the hub has PB stamped on it, which i guess must mean Februray 1991?

And it's brand new, so there's no dirt. By grindy, i don't mean its actually hard to turn, it's just not 'smooth' feeling.. hard to describe other than that..

If they are adjusted tight with the anticipation of 'wearing in', does that mean i shouldn't try the whole 'just tight enough when the QR is clamped' thing? (i'd be glad to skip that headache inducing step )


----------



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

robinmiller said:


> If they are adjusted tight with the anticipation of 'wearing in', does that mean i shouldn't try the whole 'just tight enough when the QR is clamped' thing? (i'd be glad to skip that headache inducing step )


Typically, especially with Campy hubs, if you adjust the cones so there is just a slight bit of play, tightening the QR will compress the hub just enough to take the play out. Theoretically, if a hub is perfectly adjusted when it's out of the frame, it will be too tight when it's clamped in the frame/fork. And it sometimes is a trial and error process best done with a complete wheel instead of a hub.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssmike said:


> Typically, especially with Campy hubs, if you adjust the cones so there is just a slight bit of play, tightening the QR will compress the hub just enough to take the play out. Theoretically, if a hub is perfectly adjusted when it's out of the frame, it will be too tight when it's clamped in the frame/fork. And it sometimes is a trial and error process best done with a complete wheel instead of a hub.


Yeah, I dont recall Shimano ever talking about the tight QR factor when adjusting hubs. But maybe I missed it...


----------



## robinmiller (May 31, 2005)

ssmike said:


> Typically, especially with Campy hubs, if you adjust the cones so there is just a slight bit of play, tightening the QR will compress the hub just enough to take the play out. Theoretically, if a hub is perfectly adjusted when it's out of the frame, it will be too tight when it's clamped in the frame/fork. And it sometimes is a trial and error process best done with a complete wheel instead of a hub.


OK - thanks. I guess i'll bust out the cone wrenches when it comes time to put the wheel on the frame. Last time i did that, it took me a good hour - it was always either too tight when mounted (wheel wouldn't pass the 'valve stem to the bottom' test) or there was play even when the QR was tight.

Hopefully the second time will go better


----------



## robinmiller (May 31, 2005)

Update: i got curious and took the cone and locknut off one side. The bearings were clean, but had only a trace amount of rather sticky grease on them (i guess that's what happens after sitting in a box for 16 years). I gave them a liberal dose of fresh Shimano goop, and man, the hub rolls like greased butter now 


So that's good


----------



## 02_NRS (Jan 27, 2004)

*adjusting hubs/*

to speed things up what I do is cinch the lock nut on med. tight on the side you removed.then useing a large wrench on BOTH ends lightly apply pressure tightening.this usuallly turns the smaller cinched nut.stop when most play is out.then finally tighten the end cones you removed.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

ssmike said:


> Typically, especially with Campy hubs, if you adjust the cones so there is just a slight bit of play, tightening the QR will compress the hub just enough to take the play out. Theoretically, if a hub is perfectly adjusted when it's out of the frame, it will be too tight when it's clamped in the frame/fork. And it sometimes is a trial and error process best done with a complete wheel instead of a hub.


I don't know about that. I do recall Bullseye suggesting you adjust their hubs a tiny bit loose, but I never read anything that stated you should do that with Campy, Suntour, or Shimano hubs from that era. Shimano hubs we saw always tended to be a tad over tight right out of the box and we would have to adjust them a bit before we sent them out the door. If anything they will loosen up as the run in when they are new. There is no chance in hell I am sending a hub from that time period out slightly loose.

What we found was that you could usually get a perfect adjustment by holding the locknut in place, not loosening it, and backing the cone up against it. That tiny amount of adjustment usually did it. Of course your mileage may vary.

The roughness the original poster was feeling was simply the overtight NIB state the hub was sent out in.


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

IF52 said:


> I don't know about that. I do recall Bullseye suggesting you adjust their hubs a tiny bit loose, but I never read anything that stated you should do that with Campy, Suntour, or Shimano hubs from that era. Shimano hubs we saw always tended to be a tad over tight right out of the box and we would have to adjust them a bit before we sent them out the door. If anything they will loosen up as the run in when they are new. There is no chance in hell I am sending a hub from that time period out slightly loose.
> 
> What we found was that you could usually get a perfect adjustment by holding the locknut in place, not loosening it, and backing the cone up against it. That tiny amount of adjustment usually did it. Of course your mileage may vary.
> 
> The roughness the original poster was feeling was simply the overtight NIB state the hub was sent out in.


qr hubs need to be adjusted with a tiny amount of play, the clamping force of the qr compresses everything together when installed so that the play is gone.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> I don't know about that. I do recall Bullseye suggesting you adjust their hubs a tiny bit loose,


Ive never seen a Bullseye hub that didnt have play. Thats just the way they were; there was no adjusting them.


----------



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

IF52 said:


> I don't know about that. I do recall Bullseye suggesting you adjust their hubs a tiny bit loose, but I never read anything that stated you should do that with Campy, Suntour, or Shimano hubs from that era. ..


There was never anything really written about that which is probably why you never read about it. However, in real world practice, that's simply the way you adjusted cup and cone hubs.

And yes, backing the cone into the lock nut (whether it was a headset, bb or hub) is the best way to finalize the adjustment to ensure it wouldn't loosen in the future.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

ssmike said:


> There was never anything really written about that which is probably why you never read about it. However, in real world practice, that's simply the way you adjusted cup and cone hubs.
> 
> And yes, backing the cone into the lock nut (whether it was a headset, bb or hub) is the best way to finalize the adjustment to ensure it wouldn't loosen in the future.


Yeah, yeah, after nearly 10 years working in shops I am pretty familiar with how to adjust hubs. However, having worked with Shimano, Campy and NECA trained mechanics, I have never heard or read that you adjust a cup and cone hub to have any amount of play off the bike.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Ive never seen a Bullseye hub that didnt have play. Thats just the way they were; there was no adjusting them.


Yes there was. IIRC there were collars that could be adjust inward by loosening tiny set screws. You would loosen a screw and adjust the preload until there was just the slightest amount of play and then tighten the screw back in. I may have the instruction sheet still from when I had a set of Bullseye hubs. And yeah, even then they still felt like there was play in them.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

hollister said:


> qr hubs need to be adjusted with a tiny amount of play, the clamping force of the qr compresses everything together when installed so that the play is gone.


Not anyplace I've worked. You would adjust the hub just until there was no play. No more than that. You just can't count on axle nuts or a correctly tightened QR to add enough preload. And you certainly don't want to send a customer out the door on a brand new hub that hasn't been run in yet adjusted too loose. That how every mechanic I have worked with adjusted hubs and I can tell you we certainly didn't see hub failures or premature wear as a result.

*EDIT* Well, I standed corrected. At least in the opinion of Sheldon Brown and Park tools. Though like I wrote before, neither Campagnolo nor Shimano trained mechanics I have worked with have even said that you should adjust a QR hub so you can feel play. Alway that you just get the play out and no more.


----------



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Not anyplace I've worked. You would adjust the hub just until there was no play. No more than that. You just can't count on axle nuts or a correctly tightened QR to add preload. And you certainly don't want to send a customer out the door on a brand new hub that hasn't been run in yet adjusted too loose. That how every mechanic I have worked with adjusted hubs and I can tell you we certainly didn't see hub failures or premature wear as a result.


No sense arguing with you because you have *gasp* nearly 10 years working in shops. And, yes, if you are working on low-end hubs, you don't want to have that play in there because low-end hubs do have a lot of bearing seat-in even in the first ride. Low-end hubs would need to go out the door a little on the tight side. But...a high-end hub like a Campy Nuovo Record with a very high level of precision in the bearings and races would need to be set with just the slightest bit of play in the hub when it is out of the frame.

So, as the mechanic you are, who must, as all mechanics are, have a high level of curiosity as to how things work, you owe it to your self to take a high-end hub that is laced into a wheel and adjust it so there is the tiniest bit of play out of the frame, clamp it in the frame and feel that the play goes away.

And, hey, maybe I'm a dinosaur (no jokes - and you know who you are  ) and today's hubs have different adjustment techniques - although that's still the way I adjust hubs in the shop today.


----------



## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

I finally got tired of taking 15 minutes of explanation followed by a demonstration and started adjusting them right to the point that the play disappeared. It was always fun to see their faces when you put a "loose" wheel on the bike and tighten the skewer.........tada, no play.


----------



## robinmiller (May 31, 2005)

I've never been a bike mechanic, although i've done this adjustment for my own bikes, but i would imagine that in a busy shop it might become standard practice to save time by skipping this step.. it probably causes some premature wear on the bearings and races, and means a less smoothly spinning wheel, but most customers would never notice...

I'm not really meaning to dis IF52.. personally i wouldn't expect a bike I bought at a typical shop to be really fine tuned, unless they were a particularly meticulous shop with a perfectionist for a mechanic..


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

ssmike said:


> No sense arguing with you because you have *gasp* nearly 10 years working in shops. And, yes, if you are working on low-end hubs, you don't want to have that play in there because low-end hubs do have a lot of bearing seat-in even in the first ride. Low-end hubs would need to go out the door a little on the tight side. But...a high-end hub like a Campy Nuovo Record with a very high level of precision in the bearings and races would need to be set with just the slightest bit of play in the hub when it is out of the frame.
> 
> So, as the mechanic you are, who must, as all mechanics are, have a high level of curiosity as to how things work, you owe it to your self to take a high-end hub that is laced into a wheel and adjust it so there is the tiniest bit of play out of the frame, clamp it in the frame and feel that the play goes away.
> 
> And, hey, maybe I'm a dinosaur (no jokes - and you know who you are  ) and today's hubs have different adjustment techniques - although that's still the way I adjust hubs in the shop today.


OK, first of all, I wasn't implying that teh amount of time I was a mechanic made me any better or worse a mechanic than anybody here.

Second, the implication in you smartass comment about low end hubs is not even applicable. I mean for crying out loud, it's not like I worked someplace with Mart or Town as part of its name. Heck, lucifer on these forums could attest to that.

My experience started back when Nouvo had just been phased out a year or two earlier. Point being I started working on bikes when cone and cup was about the only game in town. Well not including American Classic and the like. In fact I have a set of wheels in my basement right now with Victory hubs and can tell you they have no play out of the bike frame and are not rough or tight when clamped in the dropouts. Fancy that. In fact when I just went down and looked at them, not only were then not even the tiniest bit loose off the bike, but when I went ahead and opened the front hub, just because I have such a high level of curiosity and all, the Campy grease in it was still pretty much tan. Why I would think if I was wearing it out by adjusting it too tight the grease would be all gray or black. Hmm, go figure.

But to conceed to your point, you are correct, when I readjusted the front wheel to have just a tiny bit of tick when you really tried hard to feel it, the tick was gone with the wheel clamped in the fork.

Regarding todays hubs, no idea. I stopped working in a shop at the end of 96. Most current hubset I have is a set of Ringles.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

robinmiller said:


> I've never been a bike mechanic, although i've done this adjustment for my own bikes, but i would imagine that in a busy shop it might become standard practice to save time by skipping this step.. it probably causes some premature wear on the bearings and races, and means a less smoothly spinning wheel, but most customers would never notice...
> 
> I'm not really meaning to dis IF52.. personally i wouldn't expect a bike I bought at a typical shop to be really fine tuned, unless they were a particularly meticulous shop with a perfectionist for a mechanic..


Actually, we were probably on of the most meticulous shops in town. Probably only Free Flite and Bike South were close or better. We actually opened every headset to apply more grease and adjusted _every_ hub and BB, trued every wheel, greased every bolt, etc. We probably lost money on low end bikes because of how meticulous we were. Low end was about $350.

Whether our method was preferred or correct, who cares. We didn't see hub wear occur as a result and we didn't often see hubs come in loose at the 30 day tune either.

All I can say is that if guys I worked with or was friends with from other shops, who were trained by Campy, Shimano etc. did it that way, then they did it for a reason.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

First Flight said:


> I finally got tired of taking 15 minutes of explanation followed by a demonstration and started adjusting them right to the point that the play disappeared.


Exactly that amount of adjustment. That is exactly how I learned to adjust them and that is how everybody I have worked with adjusted them. Maybe you trained the people I learned from.



> It was always fun to see their faces when you put a "loose" wheel on the bike and tighten the skewer.........tada, no play.


Well, I'll tell you what, I have done sold bike checks before and grabbed a wheel to see if anything was loose only to find some ticking from the hub. Popped the wheel out, found it slightly loose, adjusted it and put it back. Happy trails. In just the amount of time that the bike had been built and test ridden by one of us and then assorted customers the hub had run in a bit, or the mech had under adjusted the hub. In any case it didn't go out the door with the customer that way, and they didn't tend to come back for the checkup loose very often either.

It is going to happen, Alevio, Deore, XT, it didn't matter. That is just something that happens with bearing assemblies.


----------



## robinmiller (May 31, 2005)

IF52 said:


> All I can say is that if guys I worked with or was friends with from other shops, who were trained by Campy, Shimano etc. did it that way, then they did it for a reason.


I could be totally off base here, but it occurs to me that perhaps Shimano and Campy didn't mention this because it meant more sales for them, in the sense that greater hub wear meant more replacement parts sold, or new hubs purchased?


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

I think more likely, like Jeff hinted at, they had a hard time explaining what just the right amount of looseness is. Setting the bearing adjustment to just not loose is a lot easier that determine what is just barely loose.


----------



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Second, the implication in you smartass comment about low end hubs is not even applicable. I mean for crying out loud, it's not like I worked someplace with Mart or Town as part of its name. Heck, lucifer on these forums could attest to that.


Sorry you took it that way, but the only smart ass aspect of my post was the *gasp* and I appologize for the implications  No implication about you in reference to low-end hubs. Just a fact that low end hubs need to go out the door a little on the tight side other wise they come back loose after the first ride. Is it time to go for a ride yet?


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Exactly that amount of adjustment. That is exactly how I learned to adjust them and that is how everybody I have worked with adjusted them. Maybe you trained the people I learned from.
> 
> Well, I'll tell you what, I have done sold bike checks before and grabbed a wheel to see if anything was loose only to find some ticking from the hub. Popped the wheel out, found it slightly loose, adjusted it and put it back. Happy trails. In just the amount of time that the bike had been built and test ridden by one of us and then assorted customers the hub had run in a bit, or the mech had under adjusted the hub. In any case it didn't go out the door with the customer that way, and they didn't tend to come back for the checkup loose very often either.
> 
> It is going to happen, Alevio, Deore, XT, it didn't matter. That is just something that happens with bearing assemblies.


You probably should have stopped long ago at the part where you said: "I stand corrected".


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Yes there was. IIRC there were collars that could be adjust inward by loosening tiny set screws. You would loosen a screw and adjust the preload until there was just the slightest amount of play and then tighten the screw back in. I may have the instruction sheet still from when I had a set of Bullseye hubs. And yeah, even then they still felt like there was play in them.


uh, those set screws on teh collars/axle ends were for dismantling the hubs.


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

IF52 said:


> I think more likely, like Jeff hinted at, they had a hard time explaining what just the right amount of looseness is. Setting the bearing adjustment to just not loose is a lot easier that determine what is just barely loose.


its not about easier, its about doing things right


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> You probably should have stopped long ago at the part where you said: "I stand corrected".


I stand corrected about the I have never read that procedure comment. I still don't agree that adjusting with play is absolutely the best procedure for new hubs.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> uh, those set screws on teh collars/axle ends were for dismantling the hubs.


Uh, not kidding. And for adjusting end play. If I can find the single page instruction sheet that came with my hubs 17 years ago I'll scan it and post it up. Loosen set screw to free collar, push collar in to adjust end play, tighten set screw. That was the process.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

hollister said:


> its not about easier, its about doing things right


I give up. That was the way I was taught to do it, and that is the way the factory reps taught the guys who taught me. If it was wrong blame shimano and campagnolo.


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*no, i wont blame them*



IF52 said:


> I give up. That was the way I was taught to do it, and that is the way the factory reps taught the guys who taught me. If it was wrong blame shimano and campagnolo.


been through many shimano and campy clinics and it was never(not once) recomended that a loose ball qr axled hub be adjusted that way.im not blaming them.


----------



## XR4TI (Sep 6, 2005)

You have to adjust these hubs a little loose or it'll be to tight when you put it back on the bike. I've had so many of these hubs that they were coming out of my ying yang.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Uh, not kidding. And for adjusting end play. If I can find the single page instruction sheet that came with my hubs 17 years ago I'll scan it and post it up. Loosen set screw to free collar, push collar in to adjust end play, tighten set screw. That was the process.


Hmmm, regardless, the play doesnt not come out of a Bullseye hub (ie it cannot be adjusted out).


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Exactly*

Its a property of the bearings used.

Theoretically you could make them tighter by using the collars and set-screws but you would need to clamp it in dropouts or have some other way of applying considerable pressure (read: more than your fingers can apply) to the collar before you tighten the set-screw.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Shayne said:


> Its a property of the bearings used.
> 
> Theoretically you could make them tighter by using the collars and set-screws but you would need to clamp it in dropouts or have some other way of applying considerable pressure (read: more than your fingers can apply) to the collar before you tighten the set-screw.


This adjustable Bullseye talk made me curious so I loosened the set screw on one side of a bullseye hub and clamped it in a fork with the QR. Even with all that side load, it still had play.

Oh well, Im sure he still wont believe us.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

I never said you could adjust out the play in bullseye hubs did I? All I wrote was that the 'instruction' sheet of paper included with my bullseye hubs stated that was the procedure for adjusting the end play on their hubs. In fact I believe I stated their would still be play in the wheel, no matter how tight you clamped the thing in the dropouts.

And since I just hate being wrong, I decided to do a little Googling and the very first thing I find, yet again I stand corrected. Only this time I am correcting my first statement about standing corrected.

I offer to you the following quote from the Park tool website regarding adjusting Dura Ace hubs:



> j. Adjust bearings using cone wrenches on left side.
> Adjust hub bearings in small increments so the bearings
> are as loose as possible without lateral play or knocking.


http://www.parktool.com/fordealers/library/3-9_Shimano_7800.pdf

Boy do I feel stupid now! I've been adjusting hubs just exactly that way for all this time, and Park Tools agrees this is how it should be done. What an amature I must be.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> I never said you could adjust out the play in bullseye hubs did I? All I wrote was that the 'instruction' sheet of paper included with my bullseye hubs stated that was the procedure for adjusting the end play on their hubs. In fact I believe I stated their would still be play in the wheel, no matter how tight you clamped the thing in the dropouts.
> 
> And since I just hate being wrong, I decided to do a little Googling and the very first thing I find, yet again I stand corrected. Only this time I am correcting my first statement about standing corrected.
> 
> ...


no, if you reread what you wrote you'll see that you said you could adjust them by sliding the axle end caps. The play is a function of the bearings, like Shayne said. There is no adjusting them. Its been a long time, so its no big deal to forget this stuff. I had to double check myself after reading your posts.

Im off for a lunch ride. Moist dirt and sunny skies - should be nice.


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

IF52 said:


> I never said you could adjust out the play in bullseye hubs did I? All I wrote was that the 'instruction' sheet of paper included with my bullseye hubs stated that was the procedure for adjusting the end play on their hubs. In fact I believe I stated their would still be play in the wheel, no matter how tight you clamped the thing in the dropouts.
> 
> And since I just hate being wrong, I decided to do a little Googling and the very first thing I find, yet again I stand corrected. Only this time I am correcting my first statement about standing corrected.
> 
> ...


there is good, and there is better

while you were googling did you find this?

http://www.bbinstitute.com/Readiness Self Assessment Test.pdf

as long as your on the park site check out this
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=105

scroll down to the hub adjustment part


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Yeah, the Park link you posted what the one I reference originally last night. The Park link I posted today was the one that confirmed my adjustment procedure is acceptable, if not recommend for Shimano's top of the line product.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

How about this one:

http://www.bontrager.com/assets/File_Listings/asset_upload_file335_970.pdf

They say this:



> Check the bearing adjustment by turning the axle with your fingers. The axle should spin smoothly without binding or feeling gritty. *There should be no lateral play of the axle in the hub.* Readjust the hub as necessary, and re-lock the end nut.


and then this:



> After completing assembly of the hub, check its function by spinning the axle with your fingers. It should rotate freely without irregular friction. A small amount of lateral play is acceptable if the play is eliminated when the wheel is installed with the quick release properly closed.


apparently they think we are both correct


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

call shimano re:new DA hubs.

they will suggest a small amount of play


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> no, if you reread what you wrote you'll see that you said you could adjust them by sliding the axle end caps. The play is a function of the bearings, like Shayne said. There is no adjusting them. Its been a long time, so its no big deal to forget this stuff. I had to double check myself after reading your posts.
> 
> Im off for a lunch ride. Moist dirt and sunny skies - should be nice.


Whatever dude. Bullseye did list an adjustment procedure. Does it adjust out bearing play, no. Was it supposed to adjust out axle end play, yes.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Whatever dude. Bullseye did list an adjustment procedure. Does it adjust out bearing play, no. Was it supposed to adjust out axle end play, yes.


out on the lunch ride I forgot what we were talking about here. 

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/threadedtitanium/lunch1.jpg

But anyway, thats cool. Misunderstanding I guess.


----------

