# Big Hit question



## RiDE (May 28, 2004)

Specialized Big Hit DH 2003

Found it for $2600 OTD still brand new. Good buy?

Thanks guys.


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Maybe I am an idiot, but what is OTD?*



RiDE said:


> Specialized Big Hit DH 2003
> 
> Found it for $2600 OTD still brand new. Good buy?
> 
> Thanks guys.


No doubt, brand new for $2600 is a great deal if 
a) You are going DOWN and not up 
b) the size you found for that price fits you.

Otherwise sweet ride, here's mine and I love it. All that 2003 needs is a set of Monster T's...


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## RiDE (May 28, 2004)

Yep its my size.  

I'm more of an XC rider and a roadie.  I was a DH virgin, but after my first run where my HT took a beating, I think I know what I want to do from now on.  I'm gonna end up selling both bikes. 

Just wondering if theres anything better around that price range. Thanks again. 

Oh and I just saw your thread about your big hit... nice bike... i dont think I can spring for that fork right after I plunk down $2k.


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*I would keep the XC*

If you can...sometimes DH can be too restrictive as far as shuttling is concerned...for those times when no one else can go out and play, it's nice to have a back up bike that you can go pound on....but sell the road bike immediately....


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## netguy (May 12, 2004)

RiDE said:


> Specialized Big Hit DH 2003
> 
> Found it for $2600 OTD still brand new. Good buy?
> 
> Thanks guys.


I think you really need to compare it to a bike that retails for $2600 and see what you get or dont get. Such as this years Big Hit Expert.

The only advantages with the Expert model, is you get the 4-way swinger in the rear, which IMO is such a better rear end than the 03 Vanilla RC. I have rode both, and the swinger is alot more plush, with a bottomless travel feel. Also, I guess you get an 8inch rotor in the rear also with the 04 Expert model.

The 03 DH, has quite a few better components....starting with the Boxer Team which is their middle of the road fork. A better choice than the JnrT.
DoubleTrack rims are alot stronger than the SingleTracks on the Expert
HayesMag's are beefier than the HFX-9's, and you get probably the best color Specialized has but on their bike...the Ano Black.

So I think for $2600, its a great purchase.

PS - I have the 04 Expert Model, with a 888r on the front and love it...however i drool, everytime I see the AnoBlack 03 DH. Its just a sweet looking bike.


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## matt (Feb 2, 2004)

i would say get it, the big hits are sweet. 2600 is a really good price too.


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## merrrrjig (Jan 25, 2004)

I saw a big hit DH 03' new in a shop for $2400. It was from the bike warehouse in san diego.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

riggse said:


> No doubt, brand new for $2600 is a great deal if
> a) You are going DOWN and not up
> b) the size you found for that price fits you.
> 
> Otherwise sweet ride, here's mine and I love it. All that 2003 needs is a set of Monster T's...


*WORD, BigHit's w/ Monsters F*ckin Rulel!!!!*


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## COmtbiker12 (Jan 12, 2004)

THE ONLY WAY TO ROLL ON BIGHITS IS TO ROLL IN STYLE WITH MONSTER TS.


red5 said:


> *WORD, BigHit's w/ Monsters F*ckin Rulel!!!!*


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## vgisit (Apr 20, 2004)

I bought my 03 BigHit DH for $3550 AUS. I don't think I could ever get a better deal on a DH bike.
It retailed at about $6000 when first released.

The only thing you will need to change are the pedals, and put an 8 inch rotor on the back if you desire.

Doing the conversion to US dollars its about $2500. ( not sure what OTD means )

Its a very good deal


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## RiDE (May 28, 2004)

The tag on it had $4100 or something as original price last year... then it was on sale for $3800... then on sale again for $2600 no tax.  

I didn't know some people actually got theirs cheaper.  

They had a Demo9 DH for $3500 but it was the store demo that people have been renting out.  Not that I could afford it anyway.


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Don't know what you are waiting for....*



RiDE said:


> The tag on it had $4100 or something as original price last year... then it was on sale for $3800... then on sale again for $2600 no tax.
> 
> I didn't know some people actually got theirs cheaper.
> 
> They had a Demo9 DH for $3500 but it was the store demo that people have been renting out.  Not that I could afford it anyway.


If you've got the $$, go buy it! Smokin' deal!


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## Bodhi3 (Apr 29, 2004)

*White Lightning*


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## X-Vert (Jan 22, 2004)

*Go for it but...*

...consider keeping at least one other bike. Nice to have choices unless you need the cash to buy the Bighit.


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## Master_Jako (Mar 27, 2004)

Monster's on bighits RULE!!!!!!!!!!!


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## netguy (May 12, 2004)

riggse said:


> No doubt, brand new for $2600 is a great deal if
> a) You are going DOWN and not up
> b) the size you found for that price fits you.
> 
> Otherwise sweet ride, here's mine and I love it. All that 2003 needs is a set of Monster T's...












Hey Riggse, is that an 04 Expert? Looks sweet with the Monster. Here is mine with a 888r.


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Yes, it's an 2004 Expert...*



netguy said:


> Hey Riggse, is that an 04 Expert? Looks sweet with the Monster. Here is mine with a 888r.


I just took off the stickers on the main frame....yours looks nice with the 888's, ride height would have been a little tall for me so I went MrT!

By the way, don't you hit your shock with the seatpost that long? Mine was cut to half of that length and I was still hitting the coil...might want to cut a few inches off, I don't know just my opinion...


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## netguy (May 12, 2004)

riggse said:


> I just took off the stickers on the main frame....yours looks nice with the 888's, ride height would have been a little tall for me so I went MrT!
> 
> By the way, don't you hit your shock with the seatpost that long? Mine was cut to half of that length and I was still hitting the coil...might want to cut a few inches off, I don't know just my opinion...


In reference to the tall height, it is tall, however it was just something I got used to in a couple of runs down Whistler. The steering is a little slower, however I dont race, so its no big deal to me. Drops and jumps are all its about for me. 
Yes...excellent idea to chop off some of that seat post. Just use a hacksaw? If I cut off the bottom 2 inches thats sticking out, will that take away from the strenght of it?

PS - When my SPV valve was the other way around, I put the seat post through it, when I was riding. It hit the schraeder valve, let all the air out (not to my knowing) and I rode it without air in the SPV for a full day down at Whistler. The next day, first run down the hill, and it blew up on me. Sent it to Manitou, and they replaced, rather than fixed, as they said it was just easier to do. However it still cost me $200. My own fault though. Kudos to Manitou though...I was without my shock for 5 days...very fast turnaround.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

Damm you guys and your monster T's........ I WANT ONE!!!......... but i have a hardtail....
I dont think that would work out too well


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Yes, you can cut off at least a couple inches...*



netguy said:


> In reference to the tall height, it is tall, however it was just something I got used to in a couple of runs down Whistler. The steering is a little slower, however I dont race, so its no big deal to me. Drops and jumps are all its about for me.
> Yes...excellent idea to chop off some of that seat post. Just use a hacksaw? If I cut off the bottom 2 inches thats sticking out, will that take away from the strenght of it?
> 
> PS - When my SPV valve was the other way around, I put the seat post through it, when I was riding. It hit the schraeder valve, let all the air out (not to my knowing) and I rode it without air in the SPV for a full day down at Whistler. The next day, first run down the hill, and it blew up on me. Sent it to Manitou, and they replaced, rather than fixed, as they said it was just easier to do. However it still cost me $200. My own fault though. Kudos to Manitou though...I was without my shock for 5 days...very fast turnaround.


Mine is only about 6-7 inches long total now that I cut it. hacksaw is ok but crude, I used a pipe cutter and it makes a nice clean cut. Then de-burr with a file.

I too have hit my valve hard enough to bend the setapost, but got lucky it did not blow up on me. But I too will be getting a new shock, check out the post I just did praising Manitou for what happened to me today....


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## Whafe (May 27, 2004)

Those BigHits are nice bikes downhill and on jumps, but man only if you have shuttle runs to get you too the top. Pedelling wise they are a tub of shi...t in my opinion. Sold my 04 expert after around 6 weeks. Bought an Ellsworth DARE 04, shi..t hot on umps, downhill and pedelling. Have to pedal to the top in New Zealand........


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

netguy said:


> Hey Riggse, is that an 04 Expert? Looks sweet with the Monster. Here is mine with a 888r.


Very nice ride. One quick note, have you read the manual regarding the mounting of that shock? Because I believe that with the way it's placed in the pic, if you were too bottom out the reservoir will hit the frame. check the pic...(read the red area).


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Good catch*



red5 said:


> Very nice ride. One quick note, have you read the manual regarding the mounting of that shock? Because I believe that with the way it's placed in the pic, if you were too bottom out the reservoir will hit the frame. check the pic...(read the red area).


I was actually looking for my manual because I thought the same thing. Also Netguy, pay attention to what setting you are in, and which way the resevoir faces (like the manual shows) It does make a difference. That's how I clipped my res., not by the seatpost being too long.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

riggse said:


> I was actually looking for my manual because I thought the same thing. Also Netguy, pay attention to what setting you are in, and which way the resevoir faces (like the manual shows) It does make a difference. That's how I clipped my res., not by the seatpost being too long.


Yeah I would hate for him to have to pay for another fix/replace


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

netguy said:


> Hey Riggse, is that an 04 Expert? Looks sweet with the Monster. Here is mine with a 888r.


Netguy, what size is your BigHit??


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## Master_Jako (Mar 27, 2004)

Whafe said:


> Those BigHits are nice bikes downhill and on jumps, but man only if you have shuttle runs to get you too the top. Pedelling wise they are a tub of shi...t in my opinion. Sold my 04 expert after around 6 weeks. Bought an Ellsworth DARE 04, shi..t hot on umps, downhill and pedelling. Have to pedal to the top in New Zealand........


what are you talkin about??? my bighit pedals very well...and yes, i have to pedal to the top too.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

Whafe said:


> Those BigHits are nice bikes downhill and on jumps, but man only if you have shuttle runs to get you too the top. *Pedelling wise they are a tub of shi...t* in my opinion.


Sorry you didn't like it. However, science and I would tend to disagree. Actually, a 24" wheel pedals better or easier one might say, than a 26. So for climbing the BigHit actually climbs easier, albeit slower, which for me is better. But hey, too each his own.


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## netguy (May 12, 2004)

red5 said:


> Netguy, what size is your BigHit??


Its a Large. Is there a concern with anything?

Also, so do you think I should have the piddyback around the other way? I would prefer it to be around the other way, however then its prone to damage. With it, the way it is now, its protected by the frame, just incase I wreck on rocks or anything that has pertruding edges...like pretty much everywhere I ride. When I re-set my shock up, I got on the pedals and put all my weight on it, while bouncing up and down, and I dont think it will hit the frame, if it bottoms, however then again, who knows...what do you think?


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

netguy said:


> Its a Large. Is there a concern with anything?
> 
> Also, so do you think I should have the piddyback around the other way? I would prefer it to be around the other way, however then its prone to damage. With it, the way it is now, its protected by the frame, just incase I wreck on rocks or anything that has pertruding edges...like pretty much everywhere I ride. When I re-set my shock up, I got on the pedals and put all my weight on it, while bouncing up and down, and I dont think it will hit the frame, if it bottoms, however then again, who knows...what do you think?


I'm curious how you fit a 888 on a large frame. What headset are you using? When I was searching for a fork to replace my Boxxer Race, the measurements I came up said it wouldn't work. 140mm headtube + 30mm stack height PIG DH headset = 170mm. The max stack height between the crowns on the 888 is 160mm. That's a 1/2" too short. Weird 

Yes I think you should swap the piggyback around the other way. The only true way to tell if the piggyback is going to hit the body is too remove the spring and compress the suspension to see. I'm guessing it may hit, since the piggyback is so long. Also, you need to pick other holes to run the shock in. The directions explicitly say that you should not run an SPV shock w/ a piggyback in hole A on the link and the middle hole on the frame (read the warning I posted later, it written there in the red outlined area). Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to tell you how to set up your bike, I would just hate to see something get damaged again. 









One other suggestion, if your having problems with your seatpost being to long and possibly causing damage to the shock you may want to look into getting one of these...








https://www.titec.com/items.asp?deptid=4&itemid=135


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*Just for you guys that didn't figure it out*

OTD stands for Out The Door, meaning Tax, Licence, Regionally Required Equipment, Doc Fees, Payolla for the Dock Workers, Protection money, and any other fees are included in the price listed.

Did somebody say there was a Large Bighit Expert in San Deigo? point me to it.

If the 04' Bighit Expert and Demo 9 Pro were the same price or just a few dollars difference like a couple hundred bucks, which one would you get? and why?


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## Master_Jako (Mar 27, 2004)

DJBiker said:


> OTD stands for Out The Door, meaning Tax, Licence, Regionally Required Equipment, Doc Fees, Payolla for the Dock Workers, Protection money, and any other fees are included in the price listed.
> 
> Did somebody say there was a Large Bighit Expert in San Deigo? point me to it.
> 
> If the 04' Bighit Expert and Demo 9 Pro were the same price or just a few dollars difference like a couple hundred bucks, which one would you get? and why?


first, we are talkin about the frame only right? if so, lets say if it the demo 9 was a 100 bucks more, yeah, why not. but then again, the bighit offers everything the demo 9 has, but weighs less, and has only 8 inches in the rear. since i have to pedal, id go with the bighit...


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

DJBiker said:


> If the 04' Bighit Expert and Demo 9 Pro were the same price or just a few dollars difference like a couple hundred bucks, which one would you get? and why?


Demo 9, no question. Would like the extra speed and lack of pedaling needed to maintain speed that the 26 rear wheel gives, compared to the 24.


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## Master_Jako (Mar 27, 2004)

red5 said:


> Demo 9, no question. Would like the extra speed and lack of pedaling needed to maintain speed that the 26 rear wheel gives, compared to the 24.


lol, im so used to the 24, that 26 bikes look wierd and ride wierd to me....but its a change for the better. more speed.


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Go to Supergo DJ*



DJBiker said:


> OTD stands for Out The Door, meaning Tax, Licence, Regionally Required Equipment, Doc Fees, Payolla for the Dock Workers, Protection money, and any other fees are included in the price listed.
> 
> Did somebody say there was a Large Bighit Expert in San Deigo? point me to it.
> 
> If the 04' Bighit Expert and Demo 9 Pro were the same price or just a few dollars difference like a couple hundred bucks, which one would you get? and why?


They had an 03 BH DH yesterday for $2600, and Demo 9's are marked down, DH Pro was like $3200...now or never, no complaints when they are all gone and you have to go another season without....


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*So, what you are saying is that*



riggse said:


> They had an 03 BH DH yesterday for $2600, and Demo 9's are marked down, DH Pro was like $3200...now or never, no complaints when they are all gone and you have to go another season without....


I should buy the bike EVEN if it's the wrong size for me? Just 'cause my knees hit the bars when I pedal, it will be fine? Huh, in what world does that make sense?

I'll call today and see if they can even get an 04' Demo 9 in a Large (I'm thinking the 03' is kinda a take what you get kind of thing here) I know that have an 04' Demo 9 in M and S but when I asked about the Bighits they told Specialized didn't have any more Larges, so . . .

I don't what you've been told, but SIZE DOES MATTER


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Well good luck with that....*



DJBiker said:


> I should buy the bike EVEN if it's the wrong size for me? Just 'cause my knees hit the bars when I pedal, it will be fine? Huh, in what world does that make sense?
> 
> I'll call today and see if they can even get an 04' Demo 9 in a Large (I'm thinking the 03' is kinda a take what you get kind of thing here) I know that have an 04' Demo 9 in M and S but when I asked about the Bighits they told Specialized didn't have any more Larges, so . . .
> 
> I don't what you've been told, but SIZE DOES MATTER


Hope you find that markdown large BH or Demo you're desperately searching for. I have no more to say on the subject, if I see or hear of any I'll let you know.

But the most important question we are all forgetting here is -

RIDE (original message poster) - did you get the bike?


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*And one other thing that has been driving me crazy all week*



DJBiker said:


> I should buy the bike EVEN if it's the wrong size for me? Just 'cause my knees hit the bars when I pedal, it will be fine? Huh, in what world does that make sense?
> 
> I'll call today and see if they can even get an 04' Demo 9 in a Large (I'm thinking the 03' is kinda a take what you get kind of thing here) I know that have an 04' Demo 9 in M and S but when I asked about the Bighits they told Specialized didn't have any more Larges, so . . .
> 
> I don't what you've been told, but SIZE DOES MATTER


It's "Beavis", not Bevis, and it's "fartknocker" not fratknocker...


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

DJBiker said:


> I should buy the bike EVEN if it's the wrong size for me? Just 'cause my knees hit the bars when I pedal, it will be fine? Huh, in what world does that make sense?
> 
> I'll call today and see if they can even get an 04' Demo 9 in a Large (I'm thinking the 03' is kinda a take what you get kind of thing here) I know that have an 04' Demo 9 in M and S but when I asked about the Bighits they told Specialized didn't have any more Larges, so . . .
> 
> I don't what you've been told, but SIZE DOES MATTER


Actually, you could get away with the Medium and be happy. I wish I had got the medium. I'm 6'4" and have a large. The difference between the medium and large is @ 1/2" in the toptube, hell even the small is only 1.25" shorter, not a big deal. Besides it's a DH/FR bike, how much seated pedaling are you going to be doing? I think too many people try to measure DH bike fit the same way they do XC bikes and this simply does not work. Not sure how tall you are, but I would seriously give the medium a try if you can. Just a suggestion, I'd hate for you too miss out on a great deal.


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## Lucky13 (Jan 14, 2004)

*oh, yeah!*

Couldn't resist! Monsters RULE!


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*You're wasting your breath with Doug...*



red5 said:


> Actually, you could get away with the Medium and be happy. I wish I had got the medium. I'm 6'4" and have a large. The difference between the medium and large is @ 1/2" in the toptube, hell even the small is only 1.25" shorter, not a big deal. Besides it's a DH/FR bike, how much seated pedaling are you going to be doing? I think too many people try to measure DH bike fit the same way they do XC bikes and this simply does not work. Not sure how tall you are, but I would seriously give the medium a try if you can. Just a suggestion, I'd hate for you too miss out on a great deal.


I've been telling him the same thing for 2 months (and so have others) and he refuses to believe it...and yes, there are some great deals out there right now...and he is going to miss out.

OT but, Red5, did you read my post about my Swinger 4way yesterday? Ouch!


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

riggse said:


> I've been telling him the same thing for 2 months (and so have others) and he refuses to believe it...and yes, there are some great deals out there right now...and he is going to miss out.
> 
> OT but, Red5, did you read my post about my Swinger 4way yesterday? Ouch!


Oh well.......his loss. 

Yeah, I read that. Sucks about the manual screwup , but cool of Manitou to step up . Good thing you didn't need to ride this weekend, heads would've rolled!!!


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*For sho'...*



red5 said:


> Oh well.......his loss.
> 
> Yeah, I read that. Sucks about the manual screwup , but cool of Manitou to step up . Good thing you didn't need to ride this weekend, heads would've rolled!!!


But I'm happy - can you say six-way?


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## AZ Saint (Jan 13, 2004)

DJBiker said:


> I should buy the bike EVEN if it's the wrong size for me? Just 'cause my knees hit the bars when I pedal, it will be fine? Huh, in what world does that make sense?
> 
> I'll call today and see if they can even get an 04' Demo 9 in a Large (I'm thinking the 03' is kinda a take what you get kind of thing here) I know that have an 04' Demo 9 in M and S but when I asked about the Bighits they told Specialized didn't have any more Larges, so . . .
> 
> I don't what you've been told, but SIZE DOES MATTER


So since SIZE DOES MATTER, is that the reason you're getting a "big bike"? IMO you should put in some serious work on the San Andreas and then find a DH bike. The San Andreas is competent bike and I bet the roughest ride your has ever been on is when you jam through parking lots and don't slow down for speed bumps. As far as pedalling, yeah you'll have to pedal some, but you aren't gonna be grinding it out in the granny gear for 10 minutes, but if that's what you're envisioning on this bike, as well as going downhill, please refer back to sentence #2. Contrary to what some may believe, size and suspension doesn't equal skill, but at least you'll get some cool poser points driving around with it in the back of your truck.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

*Bike Rack*

Red:

I need a bike rack like yours in that pic. What's the brand/model and where can I grab one? 
Thanks.
Kat


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## Master_Jako (Mar 27, 2004)

AZ Saint said:


> So since SIZE DOES MATTER, is that the reason you're getting a "big bike"? IMO you should put in some serious work on the San Andreas and then find a DH bike. The San Andreas is competent bike and I bet the roughest ride your has ever been on is when you jam through parking lots and don't slow down for speed bumps. As far as pedalling, yeah you'll have to pedal some, but you aren't gonna be grinding it out in the granny gear for 10 minutes, but if that's what you're envisioning on this bike, as well as going downhill, please refer back to sentence #2. Contrary to what some may believe, size and suspension doesn't equal skill, but at least you'll get some cool poser points driving around with it in the back of your truck.


can you say "forum bike buying Jealousy"...lol...what does it matter how he spends his money, and what he will do with the bike?


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*You would have to understand the history here....*



Master_Jako said:


> can you say "forum bike buying Jealousy"...lol...what does it matter how he spends his money, and what he will do with the bike?


I assure you that AZ Saint's comments were not made out of bike buying jealousy...trust me on that one....


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

riggse said:


> But I'm happy - can you say six-way?
> 
> 
> > *Schweet!!!*


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*guys, you may be right . . .*

I've kinda seen AZ Saint ride (mostly because he was so far ahead) and that dude has "mad skills" and I know riggse hangs with that level of riding.

I don't have the skills, so AZ Saint is right, I should improve my skills on the bike I have and "move up" to a "big" bike sometime later. That's a fact that I can't deny. I wish I was a better rider, but I'm not, so I do my best.

I need to ride more, and with better riders. I don't have the opportunity to ride with those guys much and when I do, it's a drag for them 'cause I can't keep up.

Yes, bike fit on a DH/FR is not something I understand, would I be ok with a medium, maybe. Would I like to sit on a Large just to see what the difference is? Yes.

I would like to see what it's like to ride a bike with a more slack head angle and more than 5 inches of travel in the front and see if my skills improve somewhat. I know just having a "killer" ride won't make me a better rider, but that doesn't mean it won't help some with my skills. Practice makes perfect, I get that.

riggse: thanks for catching my spelling errors, what would I do without you. "Um, yea, yea, I'm like mad at letter and stuff, there's to many of em'."

So, my new question When you get to a peddling section, and it's kinda short but you still have to grind up it, do you just stand up and pedal or what? Does it really matter if your knees are really close to the bars when seated and peddling?

How do you guys handle those sections?


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*It just depends on the hill....*



DJBiker said:


> I've kinda seen AZ Saint ride (mostly because he was so far ahead) and that dude has "mad skills" and I know riggse hangs with that level of riding.
> 
> So, my new question When you get to a peddling section, and it's kinda short but you still have to grind up it, do you just stand up and pedal or what? Does it really matter if your knees are really close to the bars when seated and peddling?
> 
> How do you guys handle those sections?


First of all, "hang at that level" is an overstatement. I am working at it every chance I get, and yes it does help to ride with people that are better than me, and that's why I seek them out and put myself through it. I'm not going to be the fastest or ballsiest, and I'm ok with that. Mad props to Saint, he can put it down.

Anyway, the hills - I make it a point not to ride that beast up any hill if I can avoid it. I have an Enduro for that. But if the hill is shallow and long, I'll sit back and cruise in the easiest gear I've got...If I'm in a hurry and want to keep up with the group on a short hill, I'll stand up and stomp away.

Bottom line is you have to define your riding style. It's ok to post on here and ask tech questions and opinions, but when it comes down to building skills, sitting in front of your computer all day is not going to make you a better rider. I personally think you are selling yourself short by refusing to try out and seriously consider buying a medium sized bike - you can't base the fit of a DH bike on your CC bike. If you're really serious about buying one during this time of the year when the deals are smoking, but you can't find a "large", have the shop put a stem on that is half an inch longer, you'll get the same feel for the most part. The only difference between a med & large BH is the HALF INCH LONGER TOP TUBE and the HEAVIER SPRING on the shock.

You should just face the fact that when Specialized bikes go on sale, they don't hang around very long - the pickens will get slimmer everyday, and the prices will not budge much because they do not have to.

Anyways, good luck in finding whatever it is you are searching for.










ER


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

DJBiker said:


> So, my new question When you get to a peddling section, and it's kinda short but you still have to grind up it, do you just stand up and pedal or what? Does it really matter if your knees are really close to the bars when seated and peddling?
> 
> How do you guys handle those sections?


Depending on what your definiiton of "short" is, I either stand and pedal or I hike it, depending on how steep it is. Anyhow as I stated before, rarely do you ever sit to pedal when DH riding. Watch some DH movies and you'll notice no is sitting down to pedal. Either way, that 1/2" will not make a difference

Just for reference, I'm 6'4" tall. I have an18" long thigh, measured from the top to kneecap with leg bent at a 90* angle, to simulate pedaling. At this angle I have 7" between my knee and handlebar on a large frame. So on a medium I would have 6.5", not a big deal, still plenty of room to pedal.


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*Wtf . . .*



AZ Saint said:


> I bet the roughest ride your has ever been on is when you jam through parking lots and don't slow down for speed bumps.


WTF, That's just rude, considering I never Overestimated my skills, or lack thereof why would you want to come across as such a jerk? I never talk smack about my skills, or you, so again WTF.

Eric: I sat on the M and it felt very "cramped" maybe it's supposed to feel that way? how the hell should I know? I rode your M in the lot a Buena Vista (sp) and it felt small, I rode the other Eric's ride, an Iron horse, which is a Large and it felt better? which is better? How should I know? I felt more at ease on the large and it's a fairly high-dollar purchase, so I don't want to get the wrong size.

Instead of sitting behind my computer all day, I should just go out and ride (BS) We both live in the same place, you know as well as I know it's 109 degrees outside and 50 percent humitity(sp) so if I went out to ride, I'd be dead from the heat . . .

I could get up at O' dark thirty and ride, but I'm not a morning person, so I ride my Enduro at night.

And I do seek out dudes to ride with, how the hell do you think I met you. I ain't heard nobudy ask me If I wanted to ride with them after last time (I gave it a try, at least you gotta give me credit for that) Yea, I know I ain't at your level, I also know I got 10 plus years on you and I'm pushing at least 40 plus lbs of extra fat. But I took my old fat ass out there and gave it a shot. If thats not good enough for ya, then piss off ah!

I somehow think I'd feel more comfortable on a Large, and I am doing everything I can to find one to ride more than just in a parking lot at StupidGo, maybe Red5 will sell me his and he can buy a M. (get clear Wedge, you can't do any good here, R2 that stabilizers' broken loose, see if you can lock it down)

Eric: if you are just talking smack to see if you can get me rilled up, that's lame, it might be funny for you, but it's lame, best to just worry about stuff that concerns you and not bother with stuff that don't.


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Whatever....*



DJBiker said:


> Eric: if you are just talking smack to see if you can get me rilled up, that's lame, it might be funny for you, but it's lame, best to just worry about stuff that concerns you and not bother with stuff that don't.


And I'll say it again: Good luck finding whatever it is you're looking for. I'm through trying to help.

ER


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

DJBiker said:


> Eric: I sat on the M and it felt very "cramped" maybe it's supposed to feel that way? how the hell should I know? I rode your M in the lot a Buena Vista (sp) and it felt small, I rode the other Eric's ride, an Iron horse, which is a Large and it felt better? which is better? How should I know? I felt more at ease on the large and it's a fairly high-dollar purchase, so I don't want to get the wrong size.
> 
> I somehow think I'd feel more comfortable on a Large, and I am doing everything I can to find one to ride more than just in a parking lot at StupidGo, maybe Red5 will sell me his and he can buy a M. (get clear Wedge, you can't do any good here, R2 that stabilizers' broken loose, see if you can lock it down)


If you felt more comfortable on your friends Large Iron Horse, assuming it's an 03-04, then I'd say get a Large Big Hit since both have similiar TT lengths. It's your ride after all. I don't presume to know you or how you ride, so I'll take your word for it that you know what feels best for you. I sincerely hope you can find a Large and I'm sure you can if you check around.

Honestly, if you lived in Cali I would be more than happy to swap my Large for a Medium frame. (Red5 standing by) Good luck.


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*Now that's a straight up answer . . .*



red5 said:


> If you felt more comfortable on your friends Large Iron Horse, assuming it's an 03-04, then I'd say get a Large Big Hit since both have similiar TT lengths. It's your ride after all. I don't presume to know you or how you ride, so I'll take your word for it that you know what feels best for you. I sincerely hope you can find a Large and I'm sure you can if you check around.
> 
> Honestly, if you lived in Cali I would be more than happy to swap my Large for a Medium frame. (Red5 standing by) Good luck.


Fact is I don't know what is best for me, that is why I'm so unsure about what to do. I had similar issues with the fit of my XC bike and had to at least try the XL and the L, the difference is the same Only TT length by just a little, but I "felt more comfortable" on the XL so maybe its all in my head

And yes, I am having a hard time finding a L to ride, test, sit on, or even just look at from a distance, I would say most guys fit on a M and so that is what shops carry and being late in the season and shops waiting for the new models to come out they can't get (because there just ain't any 04's left, or the 05' haven't shipped) a large.

I'll be in Cali in a week or two and called around there and got the same story, even for the rentals, so maybe I will have to wait another season Sure seems like it would be better to "check both sizes out just to make sure I get what feels best for ME" don't you think?


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Yep.*



DJBiker said:


> Fact is I don't know what is best for me, that is why I'm so unsure about what to do. I had similar issues with the fit of my XC bike and had to at least try the XL and the L, the difference is the same Only TT length by just a little, but I "felt more comfortable" on the XL so maybe its all in my head
> 
> And yes, I am having a hard time finding a L to ride, test, sit on, or even just look at from a distance, I would say most guys fit on a M and so that is what shops carry and being late in the season and shops waiting for the new models to come out they can't get (because there just ain't any 04's left, or the 05' haven't shipped) a large.
> 
> I'll be in Cali in a week or two and called around there and got the same story, even for the rentals, so maybe I will have to wait another season Sure seems like it would be better to "check both sizes out just to make sure I get what feels best for ME" don't you think?


That sounds like just the thing to do.


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## Max_winner1 (Feb 11, 2004)

Nice bikes. Probably beat you on any Dh course any day. That bike is WAY too HEAVY. OMG what are you guys thinking Bigger is better? Damn I hate that. Big hit all beafed out with rubber tires ect.. on it yeah I gota say... Its gota be 45 pounds + easy. but if its in your budget then sure ride it.


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

Max_winner1 said:


> Nice bikes. Probably beat you on any Dh course any day. That bike is WAY too HEAVY. OMG what are you guys thinking Bigger is better? Damn I hate that. Big hit all beafed out with rubber tires ect.. on it yeah I gota say... Its gota be 45 pounds + easy. but if its in your budget then sure ride it.


Actually mine is closer to @ 52lbs. Beat me on any Dh course any day!?!? OMG your my hero.  Like I care. Obviously you cannot tell that my bike wasn't designed or built to race. Hmmm..lets see Monster T, 24" rear wheel, Arrow DHX rims and slightly fat unfit [email protected] riding it. Yep definitely not meant for racing. Can't a person just *ride* a DH bike and not have to race? Jeez....


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*48lbs and loving it....*



Max_winner1 said:


> Nice bikes. Probably beat you on any Dh course any day. That bike is WAY too HEAVY. OMG what are you guys thinking Bigger is better? Damn I hate that. Big hit all beafed out with rubber tires ect.. on it yeah I gota say... Its gota be 45 pounds + easy. but if its in your budget then sure ride it.


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## AZ Saint (Jan 13, 2004)

DJBiker said:


> WTF, That's just rude, considering I never Overestimated my skills, or lack thereof why would you want to come across as such a jerk? I never talk smack about my skills, or you, so again WTF.


Wow, I guess I did come off pretty rude  . No worries, I talk **** on everyone, it's a gift. In all seriousness my post was just out of frustration from seeing your continual posts about looking for the right bike. I stand by what I said, you should just practice on your bike first. If you get a new bike it's not gonna make you any faster. Sure it will be plusher and more fun, but you were dogging it on the uphill and downhill sections. DH bikes are tanks that are made for going downhill and going downhill fast. No offense, but at the speeds you were going you wouldnt even be able to fully appreciate all that suspension. In all seriousness, I would just practice going downhill on the bike you have right now. Drop the seat, use flat pedals, run some good sag and practice, practice, practice. If you're trying to get into shape, I would recommend a trainer or a road bike. At the frequency you claim to ride, you will never be able to get up and keep up your heart rate for any sustained period of time long enough to make a noticeable difference. Even though it's "all downhill" you still do a lot of pedalling and rarely sit down so your are basically holding onto the bars and crouching down like you taking a fat sh!t the whole run, mucho tiring. Although I know plenty of bigger guys who are fast, if you are trying to work your way up basically from scratch, you'll be much better served by having improved stamina so that fatigue won't cause any boo-boos. Just my $.02

FYI - I am 6' - 6'1" and I ride a medium SGS (_and I'm much faster than the hardtail you saw me on_) and if you see me on the trails, I'll be more than happy to ride with you and give you some pointers.

Michael


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*Several things*

First off, I am very "unsure" of proper sizing of DH/FR bikes, so I ask a lot of stupid questions and like Goldielocks I want to try this one, oh it's too small, and this one is too big, and this one is Just Right, I guess I haven't found the one that is just right yet.

second, my fitness isn't too bad, considering my age, weight and the fact that I had never even seen that trail before. Yes, my skills could use lots of improvement, and I'm not making excuses, but always the first time I ride a new trail it seems to "work" me over more so than usual because I don't know where the lines are, or where to push, and where to rest, or what's coming up on the trail (I'm sure you remember what that's like). And second, for some reason I don't deal with heat very well, sounds like a whinney excuse, but fact is Heat kicks my A$$ and sucks out my energy, moreso that others (I guess I just haven't gotten used to it, if you ever do) and with a full face helmet and stuff, it's hot.

So, because SoMo is like an hours drive without traffic from where I live, where are the better sections of T100 or others to practice "that" kind of riding on.

I didn't see you guys ride that section of Mormon I had trouble with, so I didn't see how you "masters" handled it.

Also when I went from my 4 inch travel XC bike to the Mt. Cycle I made vast improvements in my technical riding, and I'm sure I would make equal gains if I got a bike with more "better" travel, but I'll go to Ski Resort and practice week after next to see what improvements I can make on the Mt. Cycle.


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## DownHillFast (Dec 30, 2003)

*Well I'm glad you cleared that up.*



DJBiker said:


> Yes, my skills could use lots of improvement, and I'm not making excuses, but always the first time I ride a new trail it seems to "work" me over more so than usual because I don't know where the lines are, or where to push, and where to rest, or what's coming up on the trail (I'm sure you remember what that's like).


Then I think we should all go ride it again, maybe when it's cooled down since you're more familiar with the trail. This time, maybe I won't have to drive the shuttle down and sit for an hour waiting...



DJBiker said:


> So, because SoMo is like an hours drive without traffic from where I live, where are the better sections of T100 or others to practice "that" kind of riding on.


And I've ridden T100 lots of times, I can assure you that you won't find anything remotely challenging like Mormon over there. Unless, of course, you drag your bike to the top of Squaw Peak and try to ride the hiking trail down. That would be somewhat similar.



DJBiker said:


> Also when I went from my 4 inch travel XC bike to the Mt. Cycle I made vast improvements in my technical riding, and I'm sure I would make equal gains if I got a bike with more "better" travel, but I'll go to Ski Resort and practice week after next to see what improvements I can make on the Mt. Cycle.


So anyway, have fun on vacation and I hope you can find a large Demo 9 or BigHit to try and ride, so you can answer the age-old "what size fits me best" question.

Have a great day.


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*So that's what I got to ride on . . .*



riggse said:


> And I've ridden T100 lots of times, I can assure you that you won't find anything remotely challenging like Mormon over there. Unless, of course, you drag your bike to the top of Squaw Peak and try to ride the hiking trail down. That would be somewhat similar.


So considering I've never seen this trail before, I think I did a very good job of walking it! most sections of the top of National was very ridable, 'cept for the waterfall, which I did the upper part, but don't understand how to do the lower part. I saw the other Eric ride the top, but missed his "line" on the lower.

I was too busy watching my life pass before my eyes on those rocky dropoff with switchbacks on the middle part of Mormon to see what the proper method and line was, it looked tough for my skill level, but I've never been on the Holbert or Sex Offender trails so I don't know what they are like either. I don't have anything near me to practice on, or even get a taste of what it's like so I'll have to wait till it cools down and just try to improve my basic riding skills in the mean time.

So, besides SoMo what is there around here to practice on?


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## BigHit-Maniac (Apr 13, 2004)

You my friend need to take your troll ass someplace else. 

Big boys like big toys. Take your little wal-mart tricycle back to doing circles in your driveway behind mom and dads minivan. Watch out for the traffic! You might get hurt!


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## Casual Observer (Jan 12, 2004)

riggse said:


> And I've ridden T100 lots of times, I can assure you that you won't find anything remotely challenging like Mormon over there. Unless, of course, you drag your bike to the top of Squaw Peak and try to ride the hiking trail down. That would be somewhat similar.


My turn to hijack a thread 

I might have to disagree. There is plenty in the T100 system that comes close to Mormon, you just have to find it. Maybe not AS challenging, but no cake walk either. I'd say the biggest difference is the frequency of the technical stuff on Mormon/National.

BTW, can you tell I'm bitter that I live so far from SoMo? 

ST (westsider)


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*I pretty sure there is a difference . . .*

between Mormon Loop and Mormon Trail.

The part we are talking about is the part of Mormon Trail from National down to 24th street. Unless you are AZ Saint, it's mostly 1-2 foot step downs with loose rocks and narrow switchbacks, I would say not even close ridable in the Up direction, and very technically challenging in the downhill direction.

I seen many parts of T100 and for steepness and technical challenges, he's right there just isn't a compairson. Unless of course you do like Eric said Ride down the hiking trail from the top of Squaw Peak (now Piewesitwaw, which I can't spell)

Nice monsoon going on, with Hail and all, gotta shut down. Boy do we need the rain


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## Casual Observer (Jan 12, 2004)

Yea, I guess I'm not familiar with that, but I kind of always take mocking offense when people rip T100 (I know he wasn't being seriour, or at least I assume he wasn't), usually since the only part they know is the actual T100. I'm sure Riggse has been on a lot of it, but I have to defend my baby 

There is some fun stuff, at least is my wussie eyes. Have you don't the cheese grater. It has some I'm guessing close to 1-2 foot steps (and one place that I've never done), and then the trail that takes you to Squaw Peak park? I'd put that in the same class as I guess Mormon Loop (the part you can take down from National). These guys should try the backside of Shaw Butte if they want something challenging. IMO, it's not ridable (see above, I'm a wimp).


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*Even though it's all in the greater Phoenix metro area*

There is a difference between the "way" the trails feel at SoMo and T100 there is nothing bad about T100, just different.

Mormon Trail seems more like lower waterfall x25 (about 25 times over and over) with switchbacks.

Where ist the cheese greater/greter (oh, hell whatever) is that trail 250? How do you get to it from the "saddle" between DD and 40th street?

Shaw bute, isn't that the one across 7th and Tapatico cliffs? How do you get to the trail you are talking about? is it "Bike" legal?

We are talking about hike 'a bike, push, or shuttle to get to DH/FR types of trails, not "rough" XC trails, so SoMo with Holbert, Mormon Trail (although you have to ride the top section of National, which most guys don't like to do because it's too easy and flat) Geronimo, and Kiwanis and Telegraph Pass, but I haven't heard of any others anywhere local.

There are trails in this "Class" in Flag and Prescott but I'm looking for more local stuff


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## Casual Observer (Jan 12, 2004)

DJBiker said:


> Where ist the cheese greater/greter (oh, hell whatever) is that trail 250? How do you get to it from the "saddle" between DD and 40th street?


You mean the saddle about a 3/4 mile E of DD? I'm terrible with trail names, but at the saddle, go up on the trail that heads south (the one with a couple small switchbacks, and that tops out at that rock bench. From there, you'll go about 100 yards, drop down into and out of a small wash. Right after popping back up, take a quick right (South), and you'll climb to a saddle (it's a switchback climb). Follow that, and eventually you hit the cheese grater (it's actually part of the circumference trail, I believe).



DJBiker said:


> Shaw bute, isn't that the one across 7th and Tapatico cliffs? How do you get to the trail you are talking about? is it "Bike" legal?


It's the big peak just West of Central, with the TV towers. It's a popular hiking trail, but it's basically a washed out road to get up (lots of mt bikers do it when doing hill training). The back side is hell scary to walk, and I've only heard of one person riding it, but yes, it's bike legal.


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## RedDwarf (Mar 2, 2004)

*I think Shaw Bute*

would be one hellof a push with a 48lb bike.

Cheese G is doable on a "trail" bike right? So I'll check that one out, does it dump you out on the other side of the peak, or can you ride along the 51 to get back to the DD lot?


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## NRTH SHORE (Jan 24, 2004)

*love yoru fork*



Lucky13 said:


> Couldn't resist! Monsters RULE!


i love your fork ... i wish i could get and old Moster T like that instead of my 03 super t


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