# Help 22.8 pounder lose two pounds. Soliciting ideas!



## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

My Airborne Corsair currently weighs in at *22.8 lbs*. I have an arbitrary *goal of shedding 2 lbs. on about $300*. I can go higher $$ - but I'd like some ideas on where to start with that financial goal to begin with. (The story of "Why" is below)

It's a pretty decent spec bike, although, perhaps, a bit dated. I don't want to hit the wall on diminishing returns - ie, spending hundreds of dollars to lose tens of grams. So let's start with the most dramatic things first.

Check out the photos below. Then I'll dive into my ideas and the "why".


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne

It's an early 2000's titanium 26er from a short-lived internet company called _Airborne_. Here's what I know about the current setup:

Frame: Airborne Corsair titanium (med)
Fork: Rockshox Duke SL
Wheels: Mavic x517 rims, XTR hubs (rear says M-950), unknown spokes & nipples, IRC Mythos tires F&R, generic tubes, XTR skewers, generic rim tape
Cassette: Shimano M-960
Crankset: Shimano XT hollowtech
Rear Der.: Shimano XTR
Front Der.: Shimano XTR
Chain: Unknown
Brakes: Shimano XTR V-brakes
Seatpost: Sette Apex Carbon
Seat: Specialized take-off from another bike (I have a Tioga Spyder ready to go for this!)
Stem: Kore (unkown model, angle, or length)
Handlebar: Easton EC70
Shifters: Shimano XT
Brake Levers: Shimano XTR
Cable housings: Airborne branded

Anything else? Check the pictures!

*My Ideas (please offer guidance):*

_I have "quick wins" in mind - but I can't do both on my budget._

*1. Quickest and easiest to me: new tires and go tubeless*. It seems like people have been able to modify the x517 rims for tubeless using strips and Stans. I can find some race-worthy tires (Schwalbe's rons or ralphs) and do the mods. *But will I save serious weight once I put in strip and Stans goo?* Price: ~$180 (2x$80 tires, Stans goo, 2 presta bmx tubes for ghetto strips)

*2. Upgrade the fork with an eBay used SID.* I think I can get one with V-brake mounts for around $300. I'm little worried about early SIDs though. I remember people complaining about them being flexy. Price: ~$300.

_Others ideas:_

A. Replace seat with Tioga Spyder Twin Tail. (I already have this in hand.)

B. New Stem. That stem looks "beefy!" Possible to find a lighter stem? Maybe this?

C. New seatpost? How heavy is that thing? I need to weigh it!

D. New grips? Seems like a small savings to me.

For my leading idea - I took apart the wheels last night and weighed everything. Here are the numbers:

Front wheel (rim, hub, spokes, nipples, tape): 758 g
Front tire: 582 g (26x2.1 IRC Mythos)
Front tube: 179 g
Rear wheel (rim, hub, spokes, nipples, tape): 867 g
cassette: 240 g
Rear tire: 587 g (26x2.1 IRC Mythos)
Rear tube: 165 g

*So why?*

Back in May, I raced for the first time in 8-9 years. And, it was only my third race ever. I finished far below my hopes.

I "raced" my trail bike - a 31 pound Specialized 29er full-suspension. It was_ clearly_ overkill.

I regularly ride the park where the race occurred (North Shore of Boston) with that trail bike. So I expected all the nasty, gritty, technical singletrack I'm used to riding there. Turns out, the race course had more double-track fire-road than singletrack. I hadn't raced in so long that I forgot the course has to favor speed, places to pass, and fewer technical features. There was very little of that gnarly singletrack I'm used to riding there.

So I've learned. Now I appreciated what a race bike needs to do. It's needs to be *light, fast, nimble and it needs to accelerate quickly*.

_So is my goal "do-able?" Whaddya think? I've got over five months to work on it! Please chime in with insights!_


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## TBarnaby (Aug 1, 2008)

Seems like tires will be your biggest bang for the buck. I am not endorsing these tires as I've never used them, but the weight along with a tubeless conversion should get you close to your goal. MaxxLite 285

If you are at 1500gm for your current tires/tubes, these tires weigh 570gm for the pair and then add in ~150 for sealant and your at a bit more than 1.5lbs of loss.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

I would put all your money into a *used* lighter wheelset and tires. At 1625g for the wheels, you should be able to save a decent amount of unsprung weight on a race xc bike. You'll be able to get a portion of the funds back as well after you sell your set.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I just finished converting my Bontrager Mustang 29" tubeless-ready front wheel and tire to tubeless. Net weight savings was 45 grams. I used 3 ounces of Stans sealent. 

The instructions recommended 4 oz for my 2.2" tires, but I don't plan on running over beds of nails or anything. It sealed up easily, and there is still a lot sloshing around in there. I might try 2 oz when I do the rear.

The stock tube was a Kenda weighing 180g. Stock rim strip was 20g. The tubeless strip is 50g, and the valve is 4 or 5 g.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

I would just upgrade any worn out parts and ride a lot. When you wear something out replace it with something better/lighter. Don't geek out on your bike, you're the one that makes it go fast.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The Duke SL is around 1750gms, ditch it and find a 2009+ SID Team at around 1450gms, they were available in V-brake versions with 80mm travel. There's almost 3/4 of a pound.


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## hollowing2000 (Aug 20, 2011)

+1 on the fork upgrade.. your wheelset is very good.. perhaps change the stem while you're at it


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## CupOfJava (Dec 1, 2008)

Older parts are tough to find


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## CupOfJava (Dec 1, 2008)

If you can find a NOS Fork...


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## Baulz (Sep 16, 2005)

Bolt-on skewers, foam grips, and remove the gear display from your shifters. Should save you approx 1/3 pound for about $25.


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## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

Update the crankset and go 1x9. You'll loose a good bit of weight in those steel chainrings. You'll also loose the shifter. The front derailleur is a wash because you'll need some type of chain retention system.

Going tubless is an obvious win. Even if you were going to _gain_ weight with that switch, it just makes sense. Tubes suck for the most part. Older SID forks are super flexy, but you'll loose some significant weight by swapping the fork.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I looked at those Maxxlite 285 tires. While I certainly find them interesting, I can't say that I'd really try them on my bike. There's really no tread. They're basically slicks.

I did see that the Schwalbe Rocket Rons are claimed at 435 gram. Just switching to those would save me 299 grams (0.66 pounds).

Can't decide on tubeless or not though. It definitely has its advantages but I'm worried about the conversion of those 517 rims. Weightweenies has tubes listed down in the 60-90 gram range. That's got to be comparable to tubeless, right? If not better...

I'm tracking several SIDs on eBay now. The price won't really jump until the last minutes. If I can get one under $200, I'll do it. I can change between the SID and the DUKE SL.

So Tires and Fork could come to ~$340. That would be ~600 grams (~1.3 lbs).

I'm not interested in going 1x9. My Trail bike is 1x9. It's great for that - but for racing, I think I want to be able to jump to the big ring. But thanks for the idea! It really does save a ton of weight on my trail bike.

I do like the idea of removing the gear indicators and moving to foamies. I'll also start looking around for stems.

So best situation: New (old) fork, new tires & tubes, foamies, remove gear indicator, Spyder saddle, new stem... Looks like my goal could be doable! It just depends on the fork price.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

You could even put a rigid fork on if you think you can race with it.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Lots has already been mentioned but I will add my .02 just for GP.

1. Stem (lots of lighter stems out there for around $80 new)
2. Grips (Ritchey foam or ESI Racers edge) foams are about 10 grams and ESI's are like 50g
3. Lighter skewers (the stock Shimano's work great but are quite heavy)
4. Your saddle as mentioned
5. Go tubeless
6. Tires (schwalbe's are light-but expensive) Had great success with Conti Race King super sonics 2.2's. or look at the Maxxis Ikon's (also very light)
7. Drop the big & small ring and replace the other ring with lighter version (Extra Lite & HBC make some nice ones)
8. Brake levers if the shifters are separate. If not, remove the gear indicator as described
9. Upgrade your cables (i-links are nice and light)
10. Fork upgrade (you can find alot of different models out there used) trim the steerer tube down as well.
11. Chain (KMC x9sl)
12. KCNC seatpost in a 27.2 x 350 is only 147g I think and can be had for around $90
13. Take that $300 and get a gym membership if you don't already have one. Work out and clean up your diet. Then go out and ride the bike like you stole it every chance you get! This is probably the best thing you can do honestly.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I ran my Conti Race King Super Sonic 2.2's with tubes. My tubes were 100g ea and it was still a significant weight savings over what was initially on the bike. I also had some trouble getting the RK's to seal up w/ stans. Not at the rim but through the sidewall casing itself. You could actually see the fluid coming right though the sidewall.

The RK 2.2's basically have a 2.4 casing on them. Lots of volume in them so it adds quite a bit of squish on their own. I ride a rigid SS and have raced it that way as well. The RK's are definitely my go to race tire for a 26" but they don't make them in a Super Sonic version for the 29ers (switch to a 29 last spring). Nice, smooth, and fast rolling. More tread than the Furious Freads for sure!


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

The only reason to join a gym is to look at hot chicks (not that there's anything wrong with that). Buy P90X, Asylum, Insanity, etc or download them for free off the internet. You can workout in your basement whenever you feel like it.

The Conti 2.2 Black Chilli Race Kings are my favorite 26" tire too.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I fully agree! However, most home gyms rarely get used. I am one of those people that if I am paying for it, then I am going! I also have to have a membership in order to go to the gym to train people (I'm a personal trainer part time). None the less, the important thing about #13 on my list is to just workout!


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

Try a rigid fork. Most XC race courses are smooth enough to make it worth the trade off.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Good idea with rigid. Check out this OnOne carbon fork on eBay: Fork Link

It's 920 grams. Not as light as those Trigon forks - but those looky flexy as heck. This On One looks meaty!

but... as I'm typing, I realize it's disc only.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

heres what i would do

stem 120 grams for $22
Sette Edge Stem at Price Point

post 160 grams for $90
FortéPro Carbon Seatpost - Mountain Bike Seatposts

grips 22 grams for $4
Sette Superlight Foam Grips at Price Point

ti skewers 92 grams for $30
Sette Titanium Skewer Set at Price Point

I bet that would be at least half a pound for about $150.

Also I would prolly go 1x9 I lost 1.1 # of my bike just by doing that. you lose a front mech, shifter, cabling, and four chain links, and the only thing i added was a 45gram chainguide. and thats about 40 bucks. But, my terrain doesnt warrant a wide gear range. ymmv


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## dragonq (Nov 5, 2006)

That's a nice bike, I would first consider the feel after weight saved, so i will start from the wheels, keep the xtr hubs, relace with pre-2012 mavic 717 (the 2012 is out so the old model should be cheaper). 

you should have around 200 left...

get the ESI grip, - sure you can feel the different by changing grips for just $15

when lacing the wheels see stem and seat post is lightest and within your budget

See if you have chance to find the stem then seatpost or QR. in the shop. you will be the big customer...

if you bring with your bike, try exchange the taken off parts with some Ti bolts (make sure they have stock or used ones), Ti frame should have ti bolts IMO


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

If I replace the rims, should I replace the spokes and nipples?

I took these wheels to a wheel trueing workshop. The tech told me the spokes are already pretty tight. That seems to indicate i'd need new spoke and nipples.


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## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

remove the tape around the cateye wire. You can just wrap the wire around the cable to keep it tight. Remove the valve caps. 

There's a gram or two ;-)


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

connolm said:


> If I replace the rims, should I replace the spokes and nipples?
> 
> I took these wheels to a wheel trueing workshop. The tech told me the spokes are already pretty tight. That seems to indicate i'd need new spoke and nipples.


Yes, replace the spokes.

Also, what about getting a ZTR 355 rim, instead?
ZTR 355 26" - 32 Hole Black ABT Rim Brake - On Sale!


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## B.Trimble (Oct 26, 2011)

limba said:


> I would just upgrade any worn out parts and ride a lot. When you wear something out replace it with something better/lighter. Don't geek out on your bike, you're the one that makes it go fast.


100% correct:thumbsup:


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Working away on this. Widdled down to some options*

So I've got this down to some choices. I've considered everyone's input and given many of you rep points for your great ideas. Thank you.

*First - the absolute "NOs":*

After really _really_ thinking about it, *I'm not getting new wheels and/or new rims*. I have good stuff already. The cost per gram savings will be minimal. My rims weigh about 408 grams and the 717 mentioned weigh 395. Stans stuff is clamined at around 335. But ultimately, the thought for re-lacing a wheel with new spokes and nipples from scratch myself is overwhelming. I can true a wheel._ I don't think I can lace one_. And spoke and nipple kits are expensive!!

I'm excited about going rigid. I love my rigid single speed 29er. *But for this race-purpose built bike, I think I'll forgo rigid.* Most rigid carbon forks are disc specific and I kinda like my XTR V's. Plus, I don't want to deal with rake and offset and sag and whatever. This idea is parked not dead. If money permits, I'll re-examine the possibility.

*Now for some more weights from tonight!*


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne


From Airborne

*Choices Choices Chocies...*


From Airborne

The skewers and seatpost are a bit_ too expensive per gram_ for the weight savings.

I like the tires and tubes but I can't decide between the two tires. I know and like *Rocket Rons* - but they're *expensive*. BUT, they are *]tubeless ready* should I choose that route. The *Conti's* are *total unknown* to me but they're a little *lighter and a little cheaper*. Here I'm soliciting more input.

The saddle and computer are freebies. Plus, I've looked into removing the gear indicators and am planning on doing that. As well, foamy grips are going to happen.

*The Stem is another area for input. That Kore stem is a beast and has to go. I know KCNC. Their stem is relatively expensive but I trust their quality and weight claims. The Selcof is a complete unknown to me. Looks like a big gamble. Check it out here. Anyone know anything about these?*

Lastly, I'm still following some SIDs on eBay. If I can get 'em under $200, I will. Otherwise, I'll revisit the seatpost and skewers and even perhaps the rigid idea. As well, I'll look into some fancy cables sets.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Check this stem. RF Deus. I have 3, in different lengths. The weight is hard to beat, and given the cost, impossible to beat. I think my 90mm stem is 130g

Race Face Deus XC SL Mountain Bike Stem OE 100046094 at CambriaBike.com

Have you thought about tubeless with the Stans kit?

Look into some bolt on skewers. Best bet for light skewers

Also, some new Jagwire cable will save some weight. Not a bad idea to start off the season with some new cables and housing. They come in cool colors too.

If your seat post is 27.2, I have a Thomson post I could let you have for cheap. The catch is that it's only 255mm.


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## jackdz (Aug 12, 2010)

I'd look at the Ritchey WCS Stems. I just got one from Cambria for $44.95 shipped to my door. It weighs 103 grams at 90mm. It is a 31.8mm handlebar, but I do know that they make a 25.4 too.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Sid fork i followed all week sat at $101 for six days. In the final moments, it blossomed to $334.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

> But ultimately, the thought for re-lacing a wheel with new spokes and nipples from scratch myself is overwhelming. I can true a wheel. I don't think I can lace one.


FYI: I bent the front rim on my old bike, and not wanting to spend any money on it, replaced the rim with one from a wheel I had with bad bearing races. Maybe I was lucky, but it turned out to be one of the few things that are easier to do than you would think. Truing was the most difficult part of the task. This was the front wheel, so I didn't have to deal with offset dish though.

Anyway, I bet you could do it if the need arose


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

connolm said:


> I'll look into some fancy cables sets.


Fancy cable sets will cost $$$ and save you very little. Can you get away with an 80mm stem? If so, the one from carboncycles is 120g and cheap ($27 incl. postage).

Otherwise, I've found the Element Neon-Q stem in 90mm to be good - 101g and comes with Ti bolts. They come up on special for around $30 every now and then.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

So I made some purchases this morning.


From Airborne

But I have to be a little honest...

Those really light tires scare me a bit so_ I also purchased some Continental Race King Supersonics_. The Race Kings are almost 100 grams heavier and cost $90.

That puts me *a little over $300* so I'm done _for now_.

More thoughts and comments:

*I still haven't committed tubed or tubeless yet*. I'll just have to wait and see. I already have Stans Sealant and some stems. I would just need strips to make that move. It will depend on how those ultralite tubes behave. Their reviews are quite mixed. The reviews on going tubeless with these featherweight tires are mixed as well.

I still have to *remove the gear indicators*. I don't know how much that will save but I'm guessing somewhere in the 25-50 gram range.

I looked at cable sets and decided the *Alligator iLinks* were too much money and too much hassle for the minimal weight savings. Plus the reviews for those were particularly harsh. I saw XTR complete cables sets (brake and shifter) could be had for around $50. I may do that this spring.

I don't actually know the rise of the Kore stem I'm replacing. The Selcof is +/- 10 degrees. I won't know how that matches to the Kore until it arrives from China in a month. And ultimately, the Selcof is a gamble - but at $26 - a gamble I'm willing to take.

I'm still pondering a fork and rim upgrades. Perhaps Stans (the 355s if they're still on sale this spring) and either an eBay SID or Trigon rigid. But that would certainly be another $300! I spend far more time on my trail bike than this bike so that may not ultimately happen.

I truly appreciate that you all took time to write in with suggestions. I'm grateful for your time.

I'll post back with more comments plus pictures once the stuff arrives.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

You can get a nice steel rigid fork ( Kona, Salsa, etc) for under $100 new. You might want to try rigid and then if you like it go for something carbon. If you hate the rigid steel fork switching to carbon won't make a big enough difference to change your mind. Carbon will be lighter but that's about it.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Update!! Update!!*

*Updated with new part weights!!*

So both the _Kenda Klimax_ and the _Contintental Race King Supersonics_ arrived. As well, the _seatpost_ came in from Performance.

The weights are shown below:









Weight: *Contintental Race King Supersonic* 26x2.0 = *440* g (claimed: 430 g)









Weight: *Contintental Race King Supersonic* 26x2.0 = *438* g (claimed: 430 g)









Weight: *Kenda Klimax Lite* 26x1.95 = *347* g (claimed: 345 g)









Weight: *Kenda Klimax Lite* 26x1.95 = *333* g (claimed: 345 g)









Weight: *Fortepro Carbon Seapost* 27.2mm = *151* g (claimed: 160 g)

*Other Parts:*

The _tubes_ and _grips_ are on backorder from Pricepoint. The estimated shipping date was Dec 28 - but that has come and gone with no shipping update. I called around for the tubes at local bike shops but no one stocks them. They are supposedly in-stock at Tree Fort Bikes. I'll wait another week and then try Tree Fort if they haven't shipped by then.

The _stem_ is slowly making its way across the Pacific in a cargo hold.

*
Other comments and observations:*

The Kenda tires actually "feel" a little firmer that the Continentals even though they're 100g lighter! I read reviews wherein people felt the _continental tires have paper-thin sidewalls_. I certainly agree with that observation. They feel dangerously thin. The Kendas have a little more thickness and shape to them.

Another big differences is the _knobs_. The Continentals have *crisp sharp knobs* on thicker rubber in the center strip. The Kendas have *shallower, rounded knobs* on thinner rubber in the center strip. They actually look like knobs on used tires where the edges have been worn down.

My guess is that the *Kenda saves weight with thinner rubber in the center strip and with shorter knobs*. That allows for slightly thicker sidewall. *The continentals save weight by skimping on the sidewall allowing for thicker knobs and a thicker center strip*.

The Continentals also have a much *higher knob density*. The knobs on the Kendas are further apart with a very different pattern. The _Kendas actually remind me a little of urban tires_ with a light center tread with bigger knobs on the sides for banking turns.

Another _*BIG*_ difference: The Continentals say they are _tubeless ready_ right on the box. The Kendas come with the following *stern warning*:










So I guess no tubeless with the Klimax Lites!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

connolm said:


> *Updated with new part weights!!*
> 
> Another _*BIG*_ difference: The Continentals say they are _tubeless ready_ right on the box. The Kendas come with the following *stern warning*:
> 
> ...


In spite of certain tire (tyre) companies using the legal disclaimers about warranty claims if you use liquid based sealants - plenty of us run Kenda, Maxxis, etc... tires tubeless with 0 problems. In terms of Kenda, I've got tires from them I have been using for years tubeless (Nevegals, Small Block 8's and Karmas). Nothing has melted. No warranty issues have taken place. And traction has been very nice with the addition of no flats from all the thorns where I ride. Ditto on other tires I ride with a similar disclaimer (Maxxis).

BB


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## featured (Nov 16, 2009)

I have 3 different 1999-2001 SID forks and one 1999 Judy SL fork. All of them are flexy to the point that it scares people i`m riding with when they see the flex during descents. But, i`m a climber first and absolutely have no problems with the visible flex. The type of riding you likely do on that bike would never highlight the flex to a point that you need something else. 

The weight savings is really worth it to me. I`ve even gotten around having a lockout on my climbs by tweaking the pressure very carefully.

I am riding an older truvativ stylo stem that weighs around 140 grams with steel bolts. I swapped out a KORE seatpost for a standard Thomson elite and saved another 100 grams.

Tubeless for sure!

And going to 1x9 has been a really large weight savings for me, but I see it won`t work for you. Get some cheap chainrings off ebay at least.


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## a2gtinut (May 23, 2007)

Conti X-King Supersonic 2.0 are lighter than Race King Supersonic. Mine set is just about 400g each.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Selcof stem is here!*

So the stem arrived from China two days ago. It's a Selcof branded stem with a claimed weight of 137 gram for a 25.4 mm clamp diameter.

It comes in at 143 on my scale so it's about a +4% variance.

It seems nice enough but I won't really know until I put it on and get out riding. That's not going to happen for a while yet.

Pictures below:









Weight: Selcof Stem 25.4 +/- 10 degree rise 100mm - *143 grams*





































The bolts came in at 26 grams. What would a set of Titanium bolts come in at?

I also ordered a set of AEST brake levers and skewers through eBay. Total cost was $77 including shipping and could potentially save 176 grams. Brake levers are claimed at 58g for the set and the skewers and listed at 46g. That puts me around $380 out of pocket so far counting the two sets of tires.

Still waiting on the grips and tubes. Pricepoint shows no movement.


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## schmiken (Jun 22, 2007)

6 ti bolts should come in about 8-12 grams depending on brand.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Another NEW update: Those Bonus Levers and Skewers Arrived!!*

Update: Jan 6, 2012. New Stuff arrived in the mail!!

So I threw in new_ levers _and _skewers_ because they were inexpensive and shipped domestically (my "domestic" is the USA). Both parts were only $77 including expedited shipping from an eBay seller in Colorado. I have the potential to save ~160 grams with these parts.

Both parts are fabricated by AEST. There's another weight weenie thread about the AEST levers HERE in which I will cross post.

Weights and pictures below:









Weight: AEST Titanium skewers MTB - *50 grams* (claimed 46 g)









Logo - what's that *smudge* between A & E? A Hippogryph? A Griffin? The Gunman on the Grassy Knoll?









Weight: AEST Brake Levers (supposedly compare to KCNC) - *58 grams* (claimed 58 g)

*My personal observations*

Those *skewers* are _frightfully light_. So light that I suspect that I'm going to ride quite sheepishly the first couple of times. Skewers a a critically important part that will lead to serious injury upon catastrophic failure. These skewers have to make themselves valuable the old fashioned way - they have to _earn_ my trust.

The *brake levers*.... well... um... that's another thing. These things look as fragile as _Christian Bale's psyche on a movie set_.

I haven't mounted them yet - but man, they look and feel _too_ light (if such a thing is possible!). My concerns are twofold: The mounting bracket braces are woefully thin and the lever bar itself is alarmingly thin as well. See picture. Let me know if the picture doesn't make sense. I can record a little video or something.










I _suppose_ I'll put these levers on and see how they feel - but these *have me more apprehensive* than anything else on this project so far.

("see how they feel" = parking lot ride to start with!)


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## mobius911 (Oct 25, 2011)

Well, they probably both won't fail at the same time. But I'd be practicing your Fred Flintstone braking just in case...


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I took the gear indicators off hoping to find the necessary cover piece inside. (...As indicated in Google searching)

Unfortunately, no cover. Luckily it only weights 12 grams including screws. So I guess they stay on the bike.



















I also started to install those AEST Levers only to realize that they don't have the cable access "cut" that the XTRs do. I had to disconnect the brake cable from the brake and thread the entire thing through the lever and then re-attach it. :skep:

Here's a picture that hopefully makes more sense:










PITA.

These levers feel cheap, flexy, and uncertain - and that's just sitting the stand. I don't have high hopes for these on the trail. In fact, I'm pondering leaving one of the XTR levers on so that I don't potentially lose all braking if they both fail simultaneously.


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## team ti (Aug 13, 2006)

I love seeing projects like this. Its easy to drop weight if cost is no object but being on budget really changes your perspective. I also like the cost-per-gram criteria in choosing changes. That said, you missed some cheap weight drops.
1)-Measure and trim your seatpost . It only needs to be slightly below the toptube/seat tube junction.
2)-set up your stem height and cut off the excess steertube.I noticed you have 3 spacers under there.
3) leave off the gear indicators and cover hole with electricians tape. The same goes for unused water bottle mounts
4) Forget the Stans kit.Ghetto tubeless with Gorilla tape and Stans valves (or salvaged from dead innertubes) + 2x 2oz bottles of stans. I personally done this conversion on the same rims and they work awesome. I am not familiar with the tires so I am suggesting the small bottles as not to be stuck with a litre of something you can't use. You can always get the econo size at a later date.
5) Measure and trim all your housings and cables to the minimum length needed to get er done . Actually look over the bike and ask yourself "Is that really necessary" Example: chainstay guard or would a strip of velcro work?
6) No mention of pedals so I will suggest eggbeaters.
Thats it at the moment . You should be get away with spending <$40 and an afternoon of your time. 
Nice to see you took the time to weigh and photograph everything


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*When you went ghetto tubeless...*



team ti said:


> 4) Forget the Stans kit.Ghetto tubeless with Gorilla tape and Stans valves (or salvaged from dead innertubes) + 2x 2oz bottles of stans. I personally done this conversion on the same rims and they work awesome.


When you went ghetto tubeless with these rims, did you put the Gorilla tape _over_ the rim strip or did you remove the rim strip and put the Gorilla down to bare metal?

I purchased a pair of 20" presta tubes to try the ghetto tubeless with home-made time strips. But I don't know if I should remove that cotton rim tape first.


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## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

Although I am a weight weenie myself, losing 2 lbs. will certainly not put you on the podium. It sounds to me that you just need to race more and get into better shape.


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## team ti (Aug 13, 2006)

connolm said:


> When you went ghetto tubeless with these rims, did you put the Gorilla tape _over_ the rim strip or did you remove the rim strip and put the Gorilla down to bare metal?
> 
> I purchased a pair of 20" presta tubes to try the ghetto tubeless with home-made time strips. But I don't know if I should remove that cotton rim tape first.


I took it down to bare metal and made sure the tape went bead to bead. I bought the wider tape and custom trimmed it to width. Do search on these forums or Youtube under ghetto tubeless gorilla tape . I found that BMX tubes had a loose fit and had to be secured with double sided tape to avoid having them slide outta place when installing tight tires.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Update Jan 16, 2012: Amost done and 20.42 lbs!! (Down 2.4 lbs)*

More parts arrived and I put them on over the weekend. Plus I took off the gear indicators.
Bike is down to 20.42 lbs.

Check out pictures below:


















Weight: Sette foam grips - 18 g with end caps.









Stem installed with some new flashy carbon spacers. I'm not going to cut down the steerer because for non-race riding, I'm going to put the heavier Kore stem back on.









I think this looks dreadful but I guess it saves 24 grams.

Still waiting on the Maxxis tubes. Those could potentially save over 100g. Although at some point, I'll tinker with ghetto tubeless too.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

How have the AEST brake levers been going?


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## team ti (Aug 13, 2006)

Nice job! Two pounds /900 grams is significant.What was your final expenditure ?


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Total expense:* ~$387* give or take a couple of bucks.

And that includes_ two_ sets of tires. After getting the Kenda Klimax tires, I ordered a set of Contintental Race Kings at $90 because the Kendas looked a little "iffy."

So really, it could have been close to the original $300 target with only one set of tires.

I haven't been out on it yet and probably won't for another couple of weeks. I broke my thumb and had reconstructive surgery with some pins. My anticipated date for a return to mountain biking is around the 1st of February. I've been commuting - but I'm not ready for singletrack yet. My grip strength hasn't recovered yet.

The *AEST levers* are quite _questionable_. I was even hesitant to put both on at the same time. I may not ride with both on the maiden voyage. They're extremely flexible and "noodly." There's no spring return either. The setting bolt has a poor thread that makes it tight to turn - even with grease on the threads.

The frame is made from extremely light metal well less than 1mm thick in places(see pics above). The lever has too much "give" to feel good unless you don't mind sponginess. As well, the cable "cut" is absent making installation and removal are considerably more arduous task. The cable must be complete removed from the V-brake and threaded all the way through the lever.

_I'll try to throw together a final table of the items, purchase site and expense in the next day or two._

I don't think there's much else to replace aside from the things I've said "no" to already. Perhaps a KMC 9SL chain? Tubeless is still an option too. Longer term - perhaps a new fork? (That could have another dramatic loss upwards of 1 pound!)


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

So you have spent all this time and money to drop weight off of your bike only Ti find that you kinda scared to ride it because you are affraid of the uber lightweight parts.....

Are you really going to change out the stem between race and trail?


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Only gonna Race *one* race in May. So yes.

After that, throw those brake levers in the parts box till next year. Put the old stem back on. Experiment with tubeless until things fail. No biggie. 20-30 minutes in the basement for the stem and brakes. I really enjoy my time tinkering in the shop almost as much as I enjoy riding. Gives me some "me" time away from the wife to drink some beer and listen to tunes will sniffing the lube and getting grit under my fingernails.

My usual ride is a FS 29er anyway. I just don't want to race that thing. Read my original post at #1. It _absolutely_ was not the right bike for this particular race - a 31 lbs 29er in 1x9 configuration.

I'll ride it as setup in the next 2-3 weeks (still mending from broken thumb) over the race course to see how those brake levers really perform. I promise to report back on how it all holds together and whether I still have my front teeth.


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

I bought those aest levers and promptly returned them. Other than that I think you made good choices.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Tubes arrived...*

The* Maxxis Flyweight *tubes arrived. They weigh in at* 112 grams* each including their strips.

I also received a pair of _Maxxis Ultralight_ tubes. They weigh in at *124 and 125 grams* each.

I'm really_ torn_ about my wheel setups. I put the Maxxis Flyweights in tonight and the *entire Bike weight comes in at 20.24 lbs* (less pedals),. That's a final loss of ~2.6 lbs - well beyond my initial goal.

*Debate tubeless!!!*

But I spent some money beyond my original limit. One of the purchases was on a set of _presta valved BMX tube_s. They're 20" tubes that some people have used for *Ghetto tubeless *setups. The idea is to use them to line the channel and cut off the extra. They weigh 92 and 94 grams each, respectively.

.... so if I cut away about 1/3 on each tube, the weight will drop to 62 gram (not accounting for stem). Add two tablespoons of Stan's (again _assumptions_: assume stans is about 1g/ml similar to water) and that's ~30g per tire. A tubeless set could be about 93 grams per tire, give or take.

I'm more interested in _debating the differecences between tubeless and tubes_ rather than over the potential 19 grams difference.

I've run *tubeless on my trail bike *for year. It seems like a "_set it and forget it kind of thing_" - just check the pressure once a week and they're good.

On the other hand, *tubes seems ideal to racing*. With a CO2 inflator, I think I could potentially fix a flat in under 4 minutes by throwing a new tube in. Seriously, in race conditions, I _think_ I could do it under *four *minutes.

I've never flatted on my tubeless so I have no idea how long it would take to fix a flat - if it's possible at all. How do you deal with a flatted tubeless wheel? I imagine you throw a tube in as quickly as possible! How long does that take? I have no idea! Is there "gunk" to clean out? How easily can I remove the tubeless valve stem? Is it stuck as if it were glued in?

Why am I even questioning? Well... it seems like race tires are considerably more flimsy than trail tires. I am more likely to flat on race tires - whether setup as tubed or tubeless. *Which is more likely to flat and how easy is either flat to deal with? *

*AEST Levers:*

Still haven't ridden them yet. Give me a week. We're snowed under and I'm off my bike for 1 more week due to a broken thumb. I hope to ride next weekend.

In the shop they feel flimsy as heIl. Plus, without a cable cutout, they're not trivial to setup. The bolt thread feels stiff, "grindy", and they don't quite line-up as I would like.


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## featured (Nov 16, 2009)

Interesting thread, I want to shave a couple more pounds off my beater bike as well. Will be watching to see how the AEST levers turn out, i`m thinking of running them with lightened BB7's.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Final parts list*

Here's a final parts list:










The _best values for weight loss were the grips, tubes, and tires_.

The least cost effective item was the seatpost.

I spent money beyond the listed amount. I also purchased a second set of tires that came in around $90. Plus I bought a second set of tubes - Maxxis Ultralights that were about $15. I couldn't resist carbon bar caps and stem spacers because they just looked cool at no weight savings whatsoever. Shipping for everything probably approached $25 - some items shipped free... other were Fedex or similar.

.
,
,

My Eggbeaters are ancient and come in at 286 grams. My Candies come in at 296 grams. They seem to be pretty decent for now - unless I want to spend $400 on fancy ti eggbeaters. Too much for now.

My cassette said Shimano Hyperglide CS-960. I'll have to look that up! Other than that, the fork is about the only big thing left!


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Test Ride!*

I got this bike out today for a ride!

Some things worked well. Some didn't.

*Stem*
The stem performed as well as any stem could. It didn't break. It's didn't flex. The shorter reach and shallower angle did noticeably change the steering though. It felt "twitchier". I'll have to get used to that.

*Seatpost and Saddle*
The saddle performed well - not a surprise as I rode on one of these all last season. The seatpost did OK too. It started sliding into the seat-tube at one point. I had to stop, raise it up, and re-tighten the collar. There's no torque recommendation on the post or collar so I had to guess - that's why it slid in the first place. The saddle also shook loose. Again, no torque indications so I had to guess.

I find this saddle comfortable with just the right about of flex and "give." It might not be suitable for everyone. I prefer a pretty stiff saddle.

*Levers, Grips, and Shifters*
The foam grips are just OK. I noticed a difference between them and heavier rubber lock-ons. This is something I'll just get used to as they preform just fine. I also did just fine without the gear indicators. No problems whatsoever.

The levers are an area of concern. The worked loose rather quickly on the trail (again, no torque recommendation). So I stopped and tightened them down on the bar. But - the lever hinge runs on the tightening bolt for the bar. So tightening them down means crunching down on the hinge. Remember - these levers don't have a return spring. The result was levers that wouldn't return!

The levers feel spongy - especially the rear lever. The give in the cable coupled with the give in the lever make them very sloppy. I also don't like how stiff the tuning screw is. It's very difficult to turn even with lube on it.






(Can't see video? Click here.)

*Tires, Tubes, Skewers*
The AEST skewers worked fine. No Problems.

I spent the most time fiddling with the Flyweight Maxxis Tubes and Kenda Klimax Tires. I was very very careful when putting the tubes on. I washed the inside of the tires and the rims to remove any debris. I powdered the tubes and tires with talc. I mounted the tubes and partially inflated them to avoid pinching. I didn't use my tire levers - again, to avoid any pinching.

I followed the recommendation to run higher pressure to avoid pinch flatting. I pumped 'em up to 50 psi.

Quite simply - _they were awful_. So bad, in fact, that I cut my ride short and bailed out halfway though.

Running high pressure made them "zing" and "ping" off of every little root and rock. The noise was terrible and the grip was even worse. They bounced all over the place. Plus, skinny tires dig into mud in exactly the same way fat tires don't. (Douglas Adams reference there.) The trail was spongy in a fair number of places and every time, the tires would dig in and slow down.

These may be OK for midwest hardpack but they sucked for rooty rocky northeast trails.

I could have tried dropping the pressure but then I would have started worrying about pinch flats. The best bet may be tubeless. But ultimately, my gut tells me the pay-off isn't worth it. I think I might just spring for some Rocket Rons and run them tubeless and accept the weight penalty for the sake of better performance.


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## sdcerreta (Jun 15, 2011)

This is a fun thread. Thanks for taking the time to share. :thumbsup:

I think it is cheating a bit to weigh your bike without the pedals. You can't ride it that way so I'm not sure the reason.

I started reading from the start, and immediately thought there is no way you can do it for $300. I was right, but you made some very good choices along the way. I am impressed. 

I sense that you are a tweaker. The problem with setting such a low budget is that it does not give you room to explore options and make mistakes. I am an extreme example of a weight weenie. I'll will buy 3 to 5 different parts just to experiment with what works best at the lowest weight. So it is nice to see people who can set budgets, but still tweak to get the right fit and ride. 

So, cut yourself some slack and don't be so rigid on the budget. Building a bike and tweaking it can be just as fun and rewarding as riding it! Enjoy the hobby and do it a little at a time so you can afford it. 

With that said, here are some suggestions

The Contis are very good tubeless tires. I'm not sure why you have hesitated so long to try them out. I run Schwalbe Ralphs and Rons, but since you invested in the Conti, try them. Don't be too scare of the sidewalls. They rarely tear.

Why are you trying to use ghetto strips or stans strips. Just use Stan's rim tape. A roll costs about $10 and adds about 8g per wheel. You want to remove your rim strips and apply the tape directly to the rim. You can watch videos at Stan's to show you how. Be sure to throw tubes in the tires and air it up to about 50psi for about an hour. This will help seal the tape to the rim. Then, proceed with tubeless. I use very little sealant, but you can use 1 Stan's measure cup, about 50g per wheel. You can run pressures around 20-30 psi depending on your weight. It will be much more comfortable and still be very fast.

Carry a tube with you on a ride. I don't even bother anymore. I have had more flats with tubes, and only one unsealable flat with tubeless, but that was on a roadie tubular tire. If you do flat, the valve is easy to remove as long as you did not overtighten the lock nut. It is messy, but fast to put a tube in there.

I think it is a toss up between the wheels and fork. Wheels are expensive and yours are relatively light. However, you should explore the weight loss between these and a fork. Remember that losing wight in rotational parts will produce a faster ride. A rebuild may be a better option. Most shops charge $50 a wheel to build, plus parts. So with Stans rims, nips and spokes, you are looking at about $380.Compare this wight loss to the fork.

Like the other guy suggested, trim the seatpost (I keep 8cm below the top, recommended is 10-12cm). You can also trim the fork steer tube. That tube is metal, so you will likely drop 40g there.

The cassette is another option, but pricey. You can get an unltralight alloy cassette for around 135g and $100, but these are not that durable. The SRAM XX 9sp will weigh around 180g and cost about $200. It is durable and has excellent shifting. 

Another option for much less is to replace the egg beater spindles. You can a pair of titanium spidles on ebay for about $50. You will trim about 80-100 grams there. 

KCNC seat post collar is 13g and about $20.

Syntace F99 stem is the most underrated and unknown stem on the market. You can find on ebay for under $50. Steel bolts stems weigh about 99g and Ti is 94g. You can still trim another 43g on that part. 

Another good bang for the buck upgrade is to replace the cranks. You can find a used set of KCNC XC2 2x9 for under $200. I think new is about $350. Stay away from the Aest cranks here. Your cranks and BB are probably around 950g. You can find nice cranks with BB around 735g for about $300 and less. That would be better than a new fork.

Once you get down just under 20 pounds, there is no way to drop more weight without spending significant amounts of cash. Run your calculations and you will see. I tried to resist, and failed miserably. 


Another tip. Not all weight loss is created equally. Losing weight in stationary parts, like frame, post, stem, seat, and fork is not as effective as losing weight in the rotational parts. So tires, wheels, cranks and cassette will produce a faster more effiicient bike.


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## CB2 (May 7, 2006)

connolm said:


> The* Maxxis Flyweight *tubes arrived. They weigh in at* 112 grams* each including their strips.
> 
> I also received a pair of _Maxxis Ultralight_ tubes. They weigh in at *124 and 125 grams* each.
> 
> ...


I've been running tubeless since the Stan's kit came with strapping and electrical tape and would never consider going back to tubes. Even if the weight savings is minimal with some setups, the reduced rolling resistance, increased traction, and improved ride quality more than make up for any inconvenience. 
I run my tire pressure in the low 20's PSI and rarely puncture (with 26" I was running 40 PSI and puncturing all the time), but if I do, the valve stem comes out easily and I throw in a tube; no slower than changing a tube and less likely to have to.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Fiddling with tubeless now*

Thanks for all the great suggestions.

I've been _attempting_ *tubeless* this week. I've only been working with the front wheel so far. Recall that it's a *Mavic 517* 26" rim.

(Also - I do have some experience with tubeless. I set up my trailbike Arches with Rocket Rons and the Stans yellow tape and sealant.)

So the first attempt (Tuesday night) was with the *20" BMX presta tube* cut down to be a rim strip. I *left the rim tape on*. I placed the *presta tube in the rim* valley. Then I *cut off the excess*. I swabbed the area and tires with *soapy water*.

I *seated the Kenda Klimax* and tried _unsuccessfully_ for about 45 minutes to get it to inflate and/or "catch."

Unfortunately, I only had a_ floor pump_. I was able to get my Rocket Rons on my Arches on the very first attempt with the floor pump. No luck here with the home-made rim strip on the 517, Kenda tire and the floor pump. I switched to the *Race Kings*. *No luck there either*. It either requires a compressor pump or it simply doesn't work.

*****************************************************************

Onto Plan B!

The following night, I tore the rim strip and rim tape off. I scrubbed the rim clean with soap and Windex. I scuffed the rim mildly with a scotch brand sponge. I applied one layer of Stans Yellow tape. I put a tube in and mounted the Kenda tire. I inflated the tube to about 50 psi and left the tire to sit overnight under pressure to help seat and seal the yellow tape.

Last night, I removed the tires and tube. Again I swabbed everything with soapy water. I remounted the Kenda Kilmax.

Pump, _pump_,_* pump*_, and keep _*pumping*_. *Nothing*. Just bubbles blowing out around the bead.

I tried the Race King next. Same result. They just won't "catch" and start to inflate!

*Thoughts and questions*

I'm going to try again with an air compressor over at the bike shop tomorrow (assuming they'll let me use it).

_So far, I've only been using Yellow tape._ Stans makes a rim strip that is mentioned on their website to work with the 517. Should I also include that rim strip? It's a bit pricey at $22.50. How would it be different from my ghetto attempt with the 20" tube? The Arches and Rocket Rons did not require a rim strip.

I see lots of people getting the Race Kings setup tubeless. Are they all using newer rims?

***********************************

As for the *MONEY$$$$*...

I really am at the end of my budget for this bike. Tax time is approaching as is bonus time at work. I'm eyeing  a new 29er carbon HT. With that in mind, I really just don't want to spend any more money on this rig.

I'll get it all to work with what I have. I have plenty of time until the race (Late May) and plenty of options to try: lowering pressure. Switching to the Race Kings. Just running tubed. Mix-n-match.

I promise to report back with more results!


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I'm new at this so this is probably no help for your wheels, but FYI I got Bontrager rim strips for about $10 ea for my Bontrager tubeless-ready wheels. They sealed up very easily using only about 2 oz of Stan's goo. They are available in regular and offset-center, and weigh 50g each.

You remove the stock rim strips, which weight 20g each.


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## sdcerreta (Jun 15, 2011)

Connolm, you need an air compressor. If you are using presta valves, you can buy an adapter at any LBS for about $1.00. This will let you go to the local gas station to air up with their compressor. The bike shop will do it for you, but if the bike sits and flats, then you may need the compressor again. If you can hang your bike, you are less likely to flat as it rests because there will be no weight on the tires. 

Tubeless setups can be a bit tricky for non Stan's rims.

Here is the problem. Most rims are not built to be tubeless. If you ever try to put a tire onto a Stan's rim you know what I mean. Stans rims have a special seat and the diameter is just a few mm larger than most rims. It is a PITA to get a damn tire on their rims. However, once the tire is on, when you inflate it, you will here it pop loud as the tire seats against the rim bead. I have never been able to self inflate a tire with a pump. Always required a compressor.

Once you get a good seat and it flats from rest, then a pump may get you reinflated, but maybe not.

Before using Stan's rims I used a set of 29er American Classics. It would often flat after a week of no use. Occasionally, I would get a great seal, but you are more likely to rest-flat on non stans rims. A good air compressor is only about $100, but that is probably not an option for you right now.

Good luck.


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## team ti (Aug 13, 2006)

The reason I use Gorilla tape over Stans (I have both) is that Gorilla tape is thicker and will build up the rim bed (brings the tire bead closer to the rim groove.) If it is really loose, you can try 2 layers of gorilla or one layer of gorilla over a layer of Stans. I have been lucky that most of the tires I've set up were inflated with a floor pump including a set of Hutchison Bulldog tubeless tires I set up on an old set Shimano r600 road rims. Also try putting 2 scoops of Stans in and giving them a shake and letting them sit for 20 minutes to allow for set up before inflation. And don't forget the soapsuds


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

connolm said:


> I looked at those Maxxlite 285 tires. While I certainly find them interesting, I can't say that I'd really try them on my bike. There's really no tread. They're basically slicks.
> 
> I did see that the Schwalbe Rocket Rons are claimed at 435 gram. Just switching to those would save me 299 grams (0.66 pounds).
> 
> ...


Yeah, forget about the Maxxlite tires...they are freaking like riding on greased ice. Rocket Ron is a great upgrade with velcro-like grip and decent wear.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Quick update on progress.

Getting tubeless has been a serious pain in the neck. I tried several nights at home with no luck with either tire (Race King or Klimax) using rim strips, yellow tape, and combinations thereof.

This past weekend, I went to the bike shop and let them try. They worked on it for an hour using the Race King tire and their air compressor before finally giving up.

Their recommendation was to trim the Stans rim strip back a millimeter or two on each side to open up more rim bead and then come back and try again.


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

if you are willing to spend more, or maybe not if you get lucky, you could look for the rare XTR WH-m970 wheelset. It is the v-brake version of ~2009 XTR. It would be much lighter than your wheels and it's a UST tubeless rim to boot My disc version is 1550 grams so the v brake ones should be even less.


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## sdcerreta (Jun 15, 2011)

connolm said:


> Quick update on progress.
> 
> Getting tubeless has been a serious pain in the neck. I tried several nights at home with no luck with either tire (Race King or Klimax) using rim strips, yellow tape, and combinations thereof.
> 
> ...


Hmm, that is too bad.

What's your next step to keep the weight low on the tires? Can you go with ultralight latex tubes?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

connolm said:


> Getting tubeless has been a serious pain in the neck....Race King...


Getting race kings tubless has always been huge pain in the ass. But once you get it working they are amazing. Best tire ever. It is however hopeless IMO if you can't get something super easy like nevegals or 2bliss tires to inflate with your rims. Assuming you can...

Here are a few tips:

Do a dance to the race king tire mounting gods.
Clean the inside of the tire to remove the release agent
Mount the Race King with a tube and let it sit/ride it for a day or more so the tire takes shape.
Dismount one bead and remove the tube being careful not to disturb the other bead. Keeping the wheel horizontal it helps if you keep the "intact" bead down so that gravity helps hold it in place especially while you fiddle with it.This way half the tire is already seated when you go to inflate it.
Put the valve stem in but take the valve core out. Make sure your valve stem doesn't interfere with the tire bead.
Gently put the other side of the tire on the rim and lube it up with soapy water (use dawn, you need big strong bubbles not weak wimpy carwash soap bubbles).
Inflate the tire with a compressor.
If your tire isn't losing air too rapidly put the valve core in, and bounce the tire around to help seat the bead better. Riding on the tire may also help. You shouldn't lose too much air putting the valve core in but if you do just re inflate the tire to about 30psi. Some people like to go higher but I prefer to keep it below 30 so as to avoid expanding the tire too much and getting too many very small holes in the sidewalls.
 Once you feel you have the tire seated pretty well you should be able to let the air out and re-inflate rather easily. Let the air out, remove the valve core and inject stans. I use 2 cups of stans for a 2.2 Race King. Race Kings need lots of sealant because they are big and porous. Be sure to position the wheel so that the stans is at the bottom and you are blowing air into the top--you don't want to blow all your stans out of the tire.
 Rejoice. Perhaps sacrifice a goat or something.

I hope that helps a bit. Also is there a reason you went with the race king 2.0? It is generally accepted around these parts that the 2.2 is superior despite the slight weight disadvantage.


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## Loudviking (Oct 23, 2011)

connolm said:


> Thanks for all the great suggestions.
> 
> I've been _attempting_ *tubeless* this week. I've only been working with the front wheel so far. Recall that it's a *Mavic 517* 26" rim.
> 
> ...


When you are ready to sell that bike, let me know. I'll take it off your hands.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Rode the bike today...*

So I took it out today on a test ride. It's currently set up with the Contintental Race King Supersonics and the Maxxis Flyweight tubes.

I spent quite a bit of time trying to go tubeless. The list is a mix and match of the following:

Stans Yellow Tape
Stans Rim strip
Stans Rim Strip cut down
Tire sitting inside out overnight
Tire inflated on rim overnight with tube
Soapy water
Air compressor and floor pump

I finally gave up and resolved myself to running tubes. No big deal really as I think these Flyweights are comparable to tubeless with regard to weight. The compromise is in pressure.

Recall that I ran the Kenda Klimax tires at 50 (55?) psi. Today, with the Race Kings, I ran 40 psi.

Whether it was the pressure or the tire... The ride was remarkably better!

I rode down at Burlingame, RI. The weather was damp - but not raining. The trail was unbelievably rooty. These tires gripped - even when I was mashing uphill over wet roots like staircases. I experienced ZERO SPINOUTS.

I'll stick with this tire setup for now.

The brake levers (AEST) were unacceptably squishy. Several times, I did "Oh Siht" grip to have them "give" like a wet noodle from Hong Kong King chinese delivery. On the upside, because I couldn't brake as I normally would... I rode down hills a lot faster than I normally would have!!

I can't decide if that's a good thing or not... 

Afterall.... this is a race bike.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

That's the Black Chili rubber in those Race Kings. It's magic. Try dropping the pressure till they just start to feel squirmy under cornering then add about 2-4psi and that should be your optimum Race King pressure.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Final Status and Race Results*

So... remember this thread?

I was getting ready for a race in May - a race I had done poorly at the previous year.

After all that tinkering with that bike...

I ended up building a_ carbon 29er HT_ and racing that instead. 

So to wrap up:

First and foremost.* I dropped almost 20 lbs myself.* 

The Bike: I built up one of those chinese carbon mail order frames with carbon wheels. It's running a rigid carbon fork and weighs in at 18.2 lbs.










After riding the Ariborne Titantium back to back with the 29er, I decided I liked the ride better on the 29er. The disc brakes performed flat-out better. The difference between suspension and rigid was negligible - the 29er is running tubeless RRs at 30 psi. It had better grip and felt more stable at speed.

But don't despair... I did ride the Airborne to a 4th place finish at a race at the end of March!

*Race results*

I took *50 minutes*  off my time from last year!!

Last year: _2:34:30._

This year:_ 1:44:58._

Quite a difference!

I placed in the middle-ish of the pack this year - which given last year's result - makes me quite happy.

I think the better finish was attributable to a combination of factors. It wasn't just the lighter bike - although that certainly felt great. I started training aggressively (working out and riding a lot) around the beginning of the year. I dieted and loss weight. I bought a road bike and rode it like crazy. I even finished a century two weeks ago as my final training push for this mountain bike race. I pre-rode the race course several times to familiarize myself with the route.

All of those factors lead to a better outcome.

Thanks to everyone's input on the Airborne project. It's one heck of a bike that I still love and plan to ride regularly!


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Congratulations! 

I did my first race this year and have been putting more effort into fitness too.

I keep reading about how important road biking and other forms of exercise are to mountain biking preparation. I wish it weren't so 

Anyway, keep up the good work!


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## Loudviking (Oct 23, 2011)

connolm said:


> So... remember this thread?
> 
> I was getting ready for a race in May - a race I had done poorly at the previous year.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you are keeping it.
And good job with the weight loss and training.:thumbsup:


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## Soundbud (Oct 21, 2013)

*Continue race tubes or tubeless?*

I would just like to add that my conti supersonic race tubes are quoted at 95g each on the box and for use with a 2.1 tyre max.

real weights for the tubes are 90g and 85g and I use one of them for 2.4 rocket Ron front tyre, the rear is 2.25 rocket Ron (only because I can't fit a 2.4 in the frame).

pressures are ideally 17/18psi for the front and 20-23psi rear.

bike weight complete with pedals is just over 20lb and I weigh around 83kg (182lb)

weight of myself and the bike is very important in this equation, if the bike was heavier and I was heavier there is no way I could run these low pressures.

to be honest I done a lot of reading with other users of Schwalbe tyres and they find that they need to use more sealant due to their thin side walls that leak. I find my setup works well with low pressures and the weight is less than running tubeless. Also easier to change tyres, I like using my spare wheel sets if I need to change bearings out and also like experimenting with different tyres, but off road in the wet ground of winter here in the uk the rocket rons are great.

just like to point out that most people like to stick in 100ml of solution per wheel to stop leaking tyres, this may be over the top but is also heavier than my tubed setup and of course they need to add rim strip and a valve to that too. I use strapping tape for rim tape which weighs only 3-4g per wheel.

its funny I'm reading this thread because of the aest brake levers. I have read about the kcnc ones and although they flex and are supposed to flex more than the aest, they work really well if used with slippery lines like power cordz according to nino 

anyway waiting for my aest brakes to come back, I ordered the v brake callipers too. I am seriously thinking of covering them with pre-peg carbon fibre to reinforce strength. This should add around 60g to the overall all weight of the whole braking system, but I aim to compensate that with dropping 50g off by using ti bolt hardware and or alloy brake bosses.

this will go on my new build which I will do a new post on, aiming for 17-18lb bike with 80mm front travel fork.

coming back to rotational weight:

i got ztr crest rims which weigh 340 and 330 and aimed to build those into 1270g wheel set and also have avid hydraulic X0 brakes with kcnc rotors which weigh 680g total of 1950g. now thinking of running the v brakes instead with wheel set weighing 1250g, since it has no discs it gives me better rotational weight difference and drops about 380g over the hydraulic brakes using 160mm discs back and front.

my current bike is v brake and gives better braking performance than some peoples hydraulic brakes and most peoples cable disc brakes. I use xtr callipers, xt levers and ceramic (soft compound) brake pads with 1st generation mavic crossmax ceramic rims. Stopping power is very impressive and I have to adjust the levers so they are 50% pulled in when braking otherwise the brakes are too sharp and can easily send me over the bars.


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## Soundbud (Oct 21, 2013)

Sorry about the upside down image of the conti supersonic tube, it's uploaded from my ipad and I don't know how to change it around.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I saw it and thought "It's lighter than air!! I want one!"


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## t-ruh (Jul 8, 2013)

Try conveting to a 1x it saved me 400 grams


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## irocss85 (Aug 10, 2009)

well??? what ever happened to this thread? I am considering these as well, but seeing your pics, and concerns, now Im concerned.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

irocss85 said:


> well??? what ever happened to this thread? I am considering these as well, but seeing your pics, and concerns, now Im concerned.


We're kicking around an old post here, but I did want to mention that the OP did a fantastic job. Tons of weights and photos that take a long time to do, plus great commentary. Cheers for starting it connolm!

Re your concerns irocss85, you should be able to safely (meaning rideable, raceable) get a 26" hardtail into the 20-ish lb range connolm did, and certainly even lower. I can't speak to all the parts he's used, but there are quality light bits out there.

I'd suggest you start a new post in the WW section, and we can offer input on your build.


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