# E-Bike Vs Exercise and burning calories



## dugt (May 26, 2012)

When I ride my e-bike, I think I get more exercise of everything other than my legs because I ride longer. I don't know if my legs get more exercise or less or the same. Because of the assist my legs get a break on steeper sections and I doubt if riding longer makes up for that. What do you think?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

First DH legs are different from pedaling legs.
Second the rest of your body will get a lot more of a workout.
Third you get what you put in. If you want to get pedaling power. pedal more. do intervals. It can be done on any bike.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I can’t go fast enough in Eco mode on my e-fattie in the snow, to get a workout even remotely approaching what I get on my bikes. No big deal. It’s still a decent zone 2 workout. If I want to get more intense, my XC skis are located right beside the e-fattie.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

dugt said:


> When I ride my e-bike, I think I get more exercise of everything other than my legs because I ride longer. I don't know if my legs get more exercise or less or the same. Because of the assist my legs get a break on steeper sections and I doubt if riding longer makes up for that. What do you think?


Honestly, riding is pretty low intensity for exercise, even when not e-biking. It takes a lot of hours a week to make it equal workouts/gym for workout bang for the buck. Most people don't push to the level where you actually improve fitness and doing so is never comfortable or easy.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

dugt said:


> When I ride my e-bike, I think I get more exercise of everything other than my legs because I ride longer. I don't know if my legs get more exercise or less or the same. Because of the assist my legs get a break on steeper sections and I doubt if riding longer makes up for that. What do you think?


What does your heart rate monitor say?


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

I reckon the ratio is about 3 to 1. Ie you have to ride 3 times longer to get the same exercise.

Of course that is really answering a how long is a piece of string question. 

I'm sure if you went harry hard nuts you Gould get equivalent exercise levels and on the other side expend very little energy at all.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

plummet said:


> I reckon the ratio is about 3 to 1. Ie you have to ride 3 times longer to get the same exercise.
> 
> Of course that is really answering a how long is a piece of string question.
> 
> I'm sure if you went harry hard nuts you Gould get equivalent exercise levels and on the other side expend very little energy at all.


I have done the experiment before. Rode up a hill on my bike, measured heart rate. Rode up same hill at the same speed, measured heart rate.
Bike 161bpm
E-Bike 127bpm


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

It's cardio. Time with elevated heart rate and respiration is what matters.

If you go hard enough, needing to maintain focus over control, timing, and reacting to surroundings, even a car driver can get a workout. Like comparing a race driver to a someone casually running an errand in a motor vehicle... pretty sure MX riders get a workout, going bigger and faster than any cyclist.

I'd rather be someone in jeans and FF helmet than like the guy dropping $$$ in geeky technical apparel, specifically for when they go out for a ride. Part of the appeal is not getting slimy from high intensity, which the increased airflow (from climbing 7+ MPH instead of 5 MPH) by itself helps greatly with.

In general, you get more efficient at what you repeat. If you cruise on an ebike for hours, your body gets efficient specifically at that. Grab a diff ebike, with diff geo, on vacation in a diff region, and try to do a similar size ride and maybe 75% of that "fitness" carries over if you're lucky. Something that you weren't working out before will likely get exhausted. The cardio fitness that carries over helps to speed up "recovery time", since there's fewer body systems getting exhausted from the slightly foreign activity.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

Mudguard said:


> What does your heart rate monitor say?


i use the avg watt output number on the bosch screen to get an idea


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> Honestly, riding is pretty low intensity for exercise, even when not e-biking.




The rider has complete control of intensity level. Crank it to eleven and see how relaxing it feels.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

No assist equals more work. I just don't see the argument. You will burn more calories trying to lift an eBike into or on your vehicle. I'll buy that.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

..... 🤦‍♂️


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## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

Jayem said:


> Honestly, riding is pretty low intensity for exercise, even when not e-biking. It takes a lot of hours a week to make it equal workouts/gym for workout bang for the buck. Most people don't push to the level where you actually improve fitness and doing so is never comfortable or easy.


Speak for yourself with the "low intensity" comment mate. When I'm doing hill climbing my HR is hitting 160-170BPM, intensity is down to YOU, if you want to put in minimal effort and pootle along like a lazy bastard that's your choice. I'm a Roadie and MTB rider and I can certainly tell you going for a fast hilly road ride is not low intensity.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I used to race my car. A full day at Laguna Seca was physically and mentality exhausting, 8 20 minute sessions. 

Ask any motocross guy how easy it is. 

If you want to get fit, follow a training program. If you want to stay healthy, just ride. Any exercise is good for you.

Me personally get a 1 to 1 workout regardless of the bike I ride.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

alexbn921 said:


> Ask any motocross guy how easy it is.


I MTB on a lot of moto trails so I run into plenty of riders. Plenty of them have a big beer gut. If they say moto is hard work I'd venture that's more because they're out of shape than what they're doing is actually very hard LOL.


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Honestly, riding is pretty low intensity for exercise, even when not e-biking. It takes a lot of hours a week to make it equal workouts/gym for workout bang for the buck. Most people don't push to the level where you actually improve fitness and doing so is never comfortable or easy.


e-bike = getting out and having fun - lowering cortisol (for the rider at least), Go further - explore more - anger non e bike fans - all fun! (BTW I don't e-bike - but always chase them when they pass me up the hill - I have only won once...) 

I beg to differ - any exercise is good. Where we ride it is as intense as the route. We can go out for a mtb ride and you can either come back refreshed - or so dead you can't function the rest of the day. No matter what you do it is about how hard you push it - not the activity that you are doing. 
Try Tabata's up a long hill some time - or flat 1 mile pulls in a road group (fiesta Island)- 15-20 minutes and you are done HR in the red. 

I know people at our gym to just go through the motions every class (Kettlebell Group classes) but they are still fit and strong - just not getting stronger or fitter. A few of them I have been working out with for over 10 years and now they are in their 60's and love to hike and ski (and drink) and are super healthy (other than the drinking bit). 

I prefer finding points in my ride to really push myself - either a long climb - short steep attack - or racing buddy to next *_*. "Hey do you think I can ride *_* without a dab?


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

I believe Jayem is going to be invited on some rides in the future.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

alexbn921 said:


> Ask any motocross guy how easy it is.
> 
> If you want to get fit, follow a training program. If you want to stay healthy, just ride. Any exercise is good for you.


I can def shred myself to pieces on the moto; its different - more like full body riding a bull with max focus. So the potential is always there. But what people do in practice seems to be totally different. The guy I saw poaching yesterday, barely pedaling holding top (modified?) speed - he was not doing any sort of effort that would deserve a comparison. My observation is most eBikers riders fall in the 'looking for least effort' camp but not all.. which isn't surprising - on the moto side its sort of the same: there's the hardcore segment and there's the casual majority who seem to be attracted to the labor savings a motor provides and are not going to increase their efforts to compensate.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> The rider has complete control of intensity level. Crank it to eleven and see how relaxing it feels.


I'd argue that it allows more intensity, since you're not overheating as much when traveling at higher speed, due to the airflow. That and you're not shy about attacking hills and "blowing up", since you have the motor+battery to make the recovery/suffering okay afterwards. Don't have to pace your energy for a potential 2h ride, and instead ride like it were a shorter and more intense one, knowing that the battery will help in case of a bonk.

I don't talk smack about people doing indoor training, claiming to have done "Everests", just spinning on their wahoo trainer thingee, but know that their bikes suffer from loads of sweat-related issues. F that. Any of my judgement on that stuff would be rude and ignorant, since I haven't done it myself. I'm not a clown like these people, trying to relate to my next closest experience, being on an exercise bike...


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

dugt said:


> When I ride my e-bike, I think I get more exercise of everything other than my legs because I ride longer. I don't know if my legs get more exercise or less or the same. Because of the assist my legs get a break on steeper sections and I doubt if riding longer makes up for that. What do you think?


Short answer is no. When ebikes first came out I would describe it to my friends as; an analog bike is doing curls with a 50 lb bar and an ebike is a 15 lb bar.

But... in a lift assist bike park on a long jump line I can max my heart rate without a single pedal, so it is possible. I just got my first ebike a few months ago and I find it more mental fatiguing to ride than an acoustic bike. I had to slow down and cruise the single track climbs to give my mind a rest. Maybe people conflate that mental/physical fatigue with muscle fatigue.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

Varaxis said:


> I'd argue that it allows more intensity,


definitely more focus cuz you cruise along at 18 mph uphill while on a regular bike it can be much slower with more time between obstacles


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Depends very very much on where you ride. If you are hitting one of the non-technical fairly flat trails (Saratoga Gap, Granite Bay, China Camp), you aren't getting a ton of workout on the ebike. You could certainly try and peg it on the climbs in Eco Mode, but ultimately it's going to be hard to get worked on an ebike when the trail isn't throwing much at you. 

If you are riding aggressive, technical downhills, you are getting worked. Technical climbing is going to work you as well, it's just a different type of workout.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

john.ecc said:


> Speak for yourself with the "low intensity" comment mate. When I'm doing hill climbing my HR is hitting 160-170BPM, intensity is down to YOU, if you want to put in minimal effort and pootle along like a lazy bastard that's your choice. I'm a Roadie and MTB rider and I can certainly tell you going for a fast hilly road ride is not low intensity.


I'll often average 160bpm on a 1.5-2hour ride.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

natrat said:


> definitely more focus cuz you cruise along at 18 mph uphill while on a regular bike it can be much slower with more time between obstacles


Glad we've reach the point where we can be honest about 18mph uphill.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

I mostly just read this forum for a chuckle at all the vitriol against ebikes, so no idea why I want to comment on the actual topic...

My yearly mileage is split about 50/50 with my ebike and bike. Typical riding is fireroad to DH tracks, some big mountain rides, and a few mellow XC rides. Time in the saddle is typically the same on either bike, as a result distance on the ebike is about double per ride, and actual effort is pretty damn close, albeit different. The ebike does have a cardio crutch with a much bigger total body workout. Think 5-6 laps on a 60 lbs bike vs 2-3 laps on a 35 lbs bike, quads, tricep's, and shoulders are screaming on the ebike from muscling it around and lungs and legs are burning on the bike from grinding the climbs.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

Has anyone became a better pedaler with an ebike? Like hopped back on regular bike and set a PR?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Just depends on the bike, the rider and the power level of the ebike. For me, my typical ebike rides are on-par, if not as bit higher load with regards to cardio vascular effort. Significantly reduced in terms of neuromuscular efforts, peak power output and interval type efforts. The answer is that there is no answer. I do plenty of mountain bike rides where I push hard and at my limit and I also do plenty of emtb rides where I am pushing hard and up to the same limits. In the case of the emtb, I go further in the same timeframe, but the overall effort is more or less the same.

There are a nuances to the whole situation:
1) when I ride my emtb, I tend to not stop, I just ride continuously without any breaks or rest. This usually means my average heart rate is the same or more, despite less peak muscle efforts.
2) I ride the descents slower on my ebike, and that requires less effort. the emtb is just not as fast downhill as my hard hitting enduro bike, so there isn't a huge reason to push to my limit on the descents. I usually see peak heart rates descending and not climbing.
3) It's possible to do far less effort on an emtb across the board, I do not ride mine like that.
4) the emtb has enabled me to ride 1-2 more days per week then I otherwise could have previously due to a spinal chord injury. Because of this, while my leg power is down, my cardio is better because of the sheer volume of sweet spot work being done.
5) my upper body is definitely stronger, as are the stabilizing muscles that I use while descending. I now do about 4x the descending in a given year that I did previously... so not only is that just more work load with those muscle groups (hip hinge vs cranking down with quads/glutes) but the upper body workout is a significant difference. 

Any blanket comments that emtb riding makes you fitter then you otherwise would be if you just rode mtb's are false. Just as any comments that riding an emtb along side a mtb will make you weaker, are false. The truth lies squarely in the middle and it is highly dependent on how the person rides them, how often, etc etc. There are no universal truths here. The same people that hammer on mtb's will hammer on emtbs, the people that are lazy will still be lazy.

Here's some ride data from an ebike ride i did this morning.


















vs a similar mountain bike ride I did with some admittedly slower friends, but they were on ebikes, I was not, so I did have to hammer a smidge.




















Bikeventures said:


> Has anyone became a better pedaler with an ebike? Like hopped back on regular bike and set a PR?


yes, I do set PR's on certain trail segments now that i ride my ebike often that I wasn't capable of before. The ebike has enabled more true zone 2 and sweet spot work which has made my endurance better. On extended climbs that are performed at or just under my ftp, I am faster now.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Bikeventures said:


> Has anyone became a better pedaler with an ebike? Like hopped back on regular bike and set a PR?


I don't think this is what your asking but, 100% yes the ebike has made me faster on my regular bike to the point of several new PR's on DH tracks (I could care less about how fast I pedal uphill). More laps on a far heavier bike builds strength and skill that shines really bright when you change back to a bike that's almost 1/2 the weight.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

McShred said:


> I don't think this is what your asking but, 100% yes the ebike has made me faster on my regular bike to the point of several new PR's on DH tracks (I could care less about how fast I pedal uphill). More laps on a far heavier bike builds strength and skill that shines really bright when you change back to a bike that's almost 1/2 the weight.


I am not a very good jumper but with the ebike I've easily cleared jumps with a casual pedal stoke that were 50/50 on the enduro bike. Now I pedal into them on the enduro bike, in that way the ebike has shown me more what is _possible._


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Bikeventures said:


> Has anyone became a better pedaler with an ebike? Like hopped back on regular bike and set a PR?


Has anyone gotten faster downhill on their hardtail because they bought a full suspension bike?


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Ratt said:


> has shown me more what is _possible._


Legit effect of riding bigger bikes and/or ones with motors. A bit of cush helps the old confidence since there's a margin of error. And if you can throttle your speed easily, you can figure out the jump speed without a lead in. Plus riding a moto totally recalibrates your expectations on dealing with obstacles, terrain and chunk at speed.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Weinerts said:


> I believe Jayem is going to be invited on some rides in the future.


Be careful what you wish for.


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## BALE (Oct 10, 2019)

I’ve come to realize that e-bikers really do get more exercise, mainly in the form of reaching, grasping at straws, and jumping to conclusions


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

BALE said:


> I’ve come to realize that e-bikers really do get more exercise, mainly in the form of reaching, grasping at straws, and jumping to conclusions


And don't forget the mental gymnastics of constantly trying to convince others how something that does half the work for them is actually just as hard. Must be exhausting!


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

BALE said:


> I’ve come to realize that e-bikers really do get more exercise, mainly in the form of reaching, grasping at straws, and jumping to conclusions





evdog said:


> And don't forget the mental gymnastics of constantly trying to convince others how something that does half the work for them is actually just as hard. Must be exhausting!


🤣 And here is the vitriol I came for 🤣


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

evdog said:


> And don't forget the mental gymnastics of constantly trying to convince others how something that does half the work for them is actually just as hard. Must be exhausting!


Just like how getting faster tires, a lightweight bike, carbon wheels, etc. supposedly makes it easier to ride fast, yet riders don't ease up any more on them...

It's only easier if you choose to go at the same slow pace you were going before. If you go at the same intensity, you can expect to be faster.

Seems only God can help people who are too stupid to realize they're stupid, as no amount of sane people seemingly can help.


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## ronhextall (Sep 13, 2015)

McShred said:


> I don't think this is what your asking but, 100% yes the ebike has made me faster on my regular bike to the point of several new PR's on DH tracks (I could care less about how fast I pedal uphill). More laps on a far heavier bike builds strength and skill that shines really bright when you change back to a bike that's almost 1/2 the weight.


Do you think it's because your legs are "fresher"? Sort of like a day-off without actually taking a day-off?


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

ronhextall said:


> Do you think it's because your legs are "fresher"? Sort of like a day-off without actually taking a day-off?


I compare it more like going to the gym, the ebike really helps build up muscles. Once the body adapts to the 60 lbs machine, the 35 lbs one is that much easier to manipulate. Between the extra weight and extra laps your body really is forced to adapt.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Can you get on excise on a bike that goes no where? Yes, in fact it's the whole point of Peloton.
Can you get excise on a road bike when they are super fast and you don't really need to work that hard? Yes, for most roadies it's the whole point.
Can you get excise on a MTB? Yes although metering your efforts can be hard and not being able to stick to a program is actually counterproductive to training.
Can you get excise on an ebike? Of course and you can stick to an exact training program if you want regardless of the terrain. You also get tons of DH experience that you wouldn't get on a MTB.

If you're lazy and don't want to train then you won't. It has always been a gate keeper in mountain biking. If you can't climb to the top you can't do the fun parts. Now people are cheating the gatekeeper. If someone is cheating everyone must be cheating. Not everyone wants the same things and some people like myself enjoy suffering no matter the bike we are on. Well the indoor bike always sucks, but you gotta put in the miles.

I do a full pull ride on all my bikes 100% of the time. That's not always max effort, but the most effective effort to maximize my fitness, unless we have hero dirt, then ride until my legs fall off and deal with it.


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## jjglass535 (Jan 7, 2015)

evdog said:


> I MTB on a lot of moto trails so I run into plenty of riders. Plenty of them have a big beer gut. If they say moto is hard work I'd venture that's more because they're out of shape than what they're doing is actually very hard LOL.


Moto and trail riding are 2 very different things. I ride mx on tracks and my heart rate is every bit as high as my mtb or e mtb. It has a lot to do with how hard you push. Anyone can get on an ebike in turbo and just ride lazy. Thats not how everyone does it though. I get my heart rate to about 165 every week on my ebike and dirt bike


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

The amount of stupid things people are willing to say about a thing they have never done astounds me.

If you want a tough workout on an ebike, you can find it. It’s just going to require a tougher climb. 

This was my first proper ride on an ebike. Miles 4-7 of this ride at a 1500 feet climb up skinny steep singletrack. I‘ve ridden it on the regular bike a lot. Pace is… vastly different. Fun level on the climb was off the charts.

Ride was very short. Should have been 15 miles but crash/ mechanical shortened it. Return would have been downhill/ recovery. Looking forward to some much longer days on this bike.

Like every other thing in life, what you get out is what you put into it.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

evdog said:


> And don't forget the mental gymnastics of constantly trying to convince others how something that does half the work for them is actually just as hard. Must be exhausting!


Mental gymnastics? Pretty straightforward...


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

For me I ride more often now, do bigger rides(more actual "ride time") and I'm sure I'm in the sweet spot more, but I do not measure my HR, so I burn more calories and I've shaved some lb's


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mlx john said:


> Mental gymnastics? Pretty straightforward...
> View attachment 2003396


Unless you’ve had an actual metabolic test done, with a mask over your face and blood being taken from your ear or a finger, those numbers don’t mean anything. They are just a percentage of a max HR you’ve entered, which might not be your actual max HR. 

Unless you’re actually doing targeted training to get near your max HR, you’re likely way, way off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

So what have we learned in this thread? 

You get out what you put in. 

You can be a lazy bastard on an ebike and bugger all exercises or you can truly send it for a be profoundly spent or anywhere in between. 

Exersize on an ebike Is less aerobic/leg strength pedal fitness and more total body work the bike fitness. Similar to but different to moto and or maybe a day of shuttling v pedalling.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Unless you’re actually doing targeted training to get near your max HR, you’re likely way, way off.


This is true regardless of whether you are on an ebike or not.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Ogre said:


> This is true regardless of whether you are on an ebike or not.


Correct. 

I can also taze myself a couple of times over the course of a two hour period and get similar results. It doesn’t indicate anything other than a number of heart beats per minute. 

It’s not kJ of work done on the bike. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> Unless you’ve had an actual metabolic test done...
> I can also taze myself a couple of times over the course of a two hour period and get similar results.



Whatever. Not a professional athlete or lab rat. I generally think that exercising on my e-bike







and bike








and hitting heart rates @ 130+ or 148+ for almost 2 hours or more (and having a helluva good time) is good for my cardio vascular system and psyche.

Who's performing mental (and linguistic) gymnastics? Tazer myself, GTFO 🙃


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Both my road bike and ebike have power meters. I can ride the same power on both for the same workout. I even go further on my road bike.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I get as much exercise as I want, no matter what bike I'm riding. Sometimes I like to cruise along the river on my analog bike with almost no effort at all. Other times I like to climb thousands of feet on remote singletrack trails on my eMTB with my heart jumping out of my chest.

.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

evdog said:


> I MTB on a lot of moto trails so I run into plenty of riders. Plenty of them have a big beer gut. If they say moto is hard work I'd venture that's more because they're out of shape than what they're doing is actually very hard LOL.


Clearly, you've never ridden a moto on single-track. I used to, and I burned the same number of calories per hour as I did on my analog MTB. As with any type of riding, it's up to the rider how hard he/she wants to work.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Varaxis said:


> Seems only God can help people who are too stupid to realize they're stupid, as no amount of sane people seemingly can help.


Yes and these days, facts can be ignored or construed as 'fake news' to support your view


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

_CJ said:


> Clearly, you've never ridden a moto on single-track. I used to, and I burned the same number of calories per hour as I did on my analog MTB. As with any type of riding, it's up to the rider how hard he/she wants to work.


Just imagine what John and Eli Tomac could add to this debate lol


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Jack7782 said:


> Yes and these days, facts can be ignored or construed as 'fake news' to support your view


People have seemingly given up on God saving them, and instead seek saviors in the form of overconfident idiots, who fools can better relate with.

Are you having a bad social life or something, wanting to take out your rage and frustration on others? You seem to be repeating what others have told you, as if you believe it hurts peoples feelings to be told such words. I'm guessing these words have often been directed at you? Same goes with the guy talking about mental gymnastics. I guess people made fun of their circular logic.

You're publicly making yourself look trashy, by aiming to hurt others' feelings, with these low effort lines that often get repeated.


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## dirtwolf (Feb 15, 2021)

analog bike


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## dirtwolf (Feb 15, 2021)

acoustic bike


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

People say emtb is less workout.

Same people fear moving around 20 lbs of extra bike weight. Is that not extra workout?

I actually used to make it a point to lift the bike into a loading/carrying position whenever waiting around, for people on non-emtbs. Any exhaustion build-up I got from that didn't pose any problem to the rest of the ride.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

dirtwolf said:


> analog bike





dirtwolf said:


> acoustic bike


In the UK they call them Push Bikes. It's a serviceable term and has history.


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## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

Varaxis said:


> People say emtb is less workout.
> 
> Same people fear moving around 20 lbs of extra bike weight. Is that not extra workout?
> 
> I actually used to make it a point to lift the bike into a loading/carrying position whenever waiting around, for people on non-emtbs. Any exhaustion build-up I got from that didn't pose any problem to the rest of the ride.


Yes we're saying moving an extra 20lbs with 400% assist rate is easier. You're not moving it, your motor is.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

john.ecc said:


> Yes we're saying moving an extra 20lbs with 400% assist rate is easier. You're not moving it, your motor is.


Critics seem to cry that all the weight would mess up the handling and whatnot. Does the motor maneuver the bike in anyway, or do anything else besides help propel the rear wheel?

FYI, that 400% means if you put out 20 N of torque from your feet (very soft pedaling), you get 80 N from the motor. If you put out 50 N of torque, you don't get 200 N. You get whatever is the max for the motor's level of gear reduction. In the case of the Bosch Performance Line Race (85 N max), it can't give any more than 158% assist, if the rider is putting 50 N ibto the pedals. A push bike also multiplies a rider's torque, through gearing. There's gearing in the motor, but the difference is that the motor offers power (watts), which the "400% assist/support" claim doesn't refer to. Just saying, since I know this may be hard to understand by critics who show that they don't know squat.

If you want to try to impress me as a genius who knows their stuff, try to look up the assist % on hub motors or a motor like Bafang's BBSHD. If you can't, then explain to me why that's so. Bonus points if you can tell me what's keeping them from making it 500% assist or 800% assist. Else, maybe admit that you're out here making drama due to your own misunderstanding, and I'll tell you the answers... 1) they lack a torque sensor. 2) assist % can be set to anything in the software programming, with usability and intended riding experience considered. Would be 850% assist if the motor gave max power when the torque sensor senses just 1 N, or 8500% if it senses 0.1 N of torque at the pedals. In other words, this assist % is a marketing tool aimed at appealing to a certain target audience. Able bodied people can ignore it.
==============

This reply is not to shame you, but to correct you. There's a saying: "correct a wise man and they will thank you; correct a fool and they will spite you." I don't see a retard; I see someone who's just at a different level/stage of development, expecting someone capable of figuring stuff out and progressing from a few pointers.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

The motor definitely messes with the handling. I find that at full assist level it is too much and throws off my timing.
But just like anything, you get used to it and tune it to your style. After a while it becomes second nature.
I run 2x assist with full power available. This gives me access to full power and makes it feel more natural.


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

I have a supposition - There are pedal assist (which seem to be mentioned here a lot) and the bikes with the all out motors. I road with (sortof) a guy with a b52 - which is a monster "bike". it had a SA internal gearbox at the crank and a 700w motor on the rear wheel. 

24in wheels and the thing was really fast (but the guy did not now how to ride it very well - so he was slow). 

Maybe people are getting this kind of e-bike confused with the pedal assist..

Honestly I want to take it apart at check out the gearbox cranks. That would be cool to build something with.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

dirtwolf said:


> acoustic bike


Bropeds...as the kids like to call them 'round town.


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

Just don't ride in Turbo mode  When I'm fresh and excited, my HR is at 90-92%HRm at the end of climbs, quite often producting >300W most of the climbs. (and I'm talking about Bosch gen4)
Check your burnt calories - you can easily compare how much excercise you do....


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

We got our first snow this past week so I blew off the dust on my gravel bike and did my first non E ride in probably a year. Was expecting dead legs and feel like I was riding thru sand, but it was actually the opposite. Legs felt fresh the bike felt ridiculously light(it's not, around 25lbs), my fitness aint bad for being a lazy eMTBer 

Was feeling the quads at the end, and the next day, but I've noticed the same on bigger E rides as well


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

We were able to do about 2 hours of trail work (removing about 3000 pounds of lumber from the trail) and then do a ride with 3,000+ feet of climbing. Would not have been able to finish the ride after the trail work without the ebikes. 

No less effort. Just getting more done. 

Lazy people will lazy. Motivated people get shift done.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Ogre said:


> We were able to do about 2 hours of trail work (removing about 3000 pounds of lumber from the trail) and then do a ride with 3,000+ feet of climbing. Would not have been able to finish the ride after the trail work without the ebikes.
> 
> No less effort. Just getting more done.
> 
> Lazy people will lazy. Motivated people get shift done.


Wow got a lot done that day! Thanks trailbuilders


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## butryon (Aug 12, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Honestly, riding is pretty low intensity for exercise, even when not e-biking. It takes a lot of hours a week to make it equal workouts/gym for workout bang for the buck. Most people don't push to the level where you actually improve fitness and doing so is never comfortable or easy.


I don't understand? Are you saying lifting and gym work make you faster than doing a lot of dedicated bicycling?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

butryon said:


> I don't understand? Are you saying lifting and gym work make you faster than doing a lot of dedicated bicycling?


Greater body strength can allow the body to handle shocks better, which leads to less braking when it comes to riding rough terrain. This strength is more easily gained from lifting and gym work.

I know I don't get much upper body strength from purely riding, and even doing push-ups leads to noticeable benefits. Slowing down before bumps to reduce the impact, or slowing down after bumps to give time to recover/restabilize after some hard impacts, are clear signs to me that I could use more strength.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Varaxis said:


> Greater body strength can allow the body to handle shocks better, which leads to less braking when it comes to riding rough terrain. This strength is more easily gained from…


… adding another inch of travel.



/s in case you lack a sense of humor.


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## stingray5 (Sep 8, 2020)

Weight training absolutely impacts descending. Been doing weight excercises (curly bar for biceps, push ups, Praep) for half a year now and the difference in downhill performance is really big. More control, less arm pump and fatigue.
I especially recommend Praep contraption for strenght training.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

butryon said:


> I don't understand? Are you saying lifting and gym work make you faster than doing a lot of dedicated bicycling?


Look at how much time the top racers spend in the gym…


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

chiefsilverback said:


> Look at how much time the top racers spend in the gym…


Very little compared to what they do on the bike. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

E-bikes actually have a power meter built in. If you connect them to your Garmin you can actually see how hard you are riding. Personally I tend to ride a bit harder on the E-bike than a mountain bike. This is probably because I tend to head out on E-bike when I am time limited and I don't have a need to pace my efforts for a longer ride.


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