# Finally found alternative to clipless



## conard10 (Jun 2, 2005)

There are so many posts about clipless pedals, I thought I would write about my recent "discovery". I have been riding clipless for the last couple years and it has been a love-hate relationship. (by the way, I do XC riding). I loved riding clipless on less technique rides....I completely agree that there is a true advantage, especially on uphills.

But, as many of you will agree....as you get older, getting hurt becomes a much bigger concern. With a job, house, and husband I just can't risk a serious injury. Within the last couple weeks I have had some pretty bad crashes...no major injuries, but scary nonetheless. I am fine clipping in the pedals, and usually can get out fast enough to brace a fall....but the last couple rides, I went over a log pile and there happened to be a misplaced log on the other side....BAM! I know if I had platform shoes I could have avoided a crash.

I know that most XC riders go clipless, and I hated having to revert to platform so I did some research and found the perfect solution.

Many guys use the Five-Ten Impact shoes with BMX platforms....but, having a size 6.5 women's shoe size this was not an option. I am not at all familiar with rock climbing shoes...but after some research I found "approach shoes". They look like hiking shoes, but have a very gummy sole....they are also stiffer in the toe area, which is very helpful. The gummy sole, in combination with a BMX style platform pedal is very close to wearing clipless.

Here is the link to the shoes I purchased (I actually got them on sale at a local store)....but, there are several different brands and styles.

This post was much longer than I intended, but I'm pretty excited about this new discovery (which some of you may already know about). Being able to ride with a platform has really increased my confidence in technical sections. And suprisingly, I have lost very little power, even going up hills.

http://www.zappos.com/n/p/dp/4580380/c/19620.html


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## wickerman1 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Nice shoes*

I have ridden with platforms all my life and have a brandnew set of Crankbrothers Candy C that came with my bike and took them off.
I use Reebok skate shoes... flat bottom wi ththe pins up abit on the pedals, work great. In winter, I use Vasque hiking type shoe which has a rubberized toe and heel and water proof.
Glad you found what you wanted ..


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## conard10 (Jun 2, 2005)

After I read my own post, I feel like a complete tool. It sounded like I found this great new discover....normal shoes with platform pedals...duh!!!

What I was really excited about were shoes that actually stuck to the pedal...not only is it almost impossible for me to find skate shoes in my size, they didn't work nearly as well as these "approach shoes". 

Maybe one of my crashes did cause a head injury .


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## scubaklook (Apr 20, 2005)

No need to feel like a tool. It is great you found something that works for you and got excited about it.


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## cbharping (Mar 22, 2004)

conard10 said:


> Many guys use the Five-Ten Impact shoes with BMX platforms....but, having a size 6.5 women's shoe size this was not an option. I am not at all familiar with rock climbing shoes...but after some research I found "approach shoes". They look like hiking shoes, but have a very gummy sole....they are also stiffer in the toe area, which is very helpful. The gummy sole, in combination with a BMX style platform pedal is very close to wearing clipless.


Actually, I wear the same size shoe you do (women's 6.5), and I got the second to smallest size the Five-Ten Impact Low is made in. Right now I don't think they're available in any size, since they are currently re-styling the Impact for a November release (I heard through the Five-Ten grapevine). They're also going to be coming out with some new skate style shoes in the spring!


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## Gatorbike (Mar 13, 2006)

How are they like clipless? Is it because the soles kind of stick to the pedals? I also have had some bad wrecks that probably wouldn't have happened if I could have gotten out faster.


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## conard10 (Jun 2, 2005)

When I first starting biking I used regular running sneakers with cheapie pedals....this cause my feet to always slip off the pedal, even when I wasn't really doing anything technical. Plus, since my foot really wasn't sticking to the pedal, going uphill was more difficult. 

I switched to clipless and was a much more efficent rider, and noticed that going uphills was much "easier". I knew I didn't want to go back to wearing sneakers and cheapie pedals....but I wanted to go back to platforms. These "approach shoes" I found have a very grippy sole because they are made for rock climbing....guys usually wear the "skater shoes", but I couldn't find any in my size. With a quality platform and grippy soles, my feet stick to the pedal much much better....not as good as clipless, but much better than regular shoes.


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## soly (May 29, 2006)

conard10 said:


> There are so many posts about clipless pedals, I thought I would write about my recent "discovery". I have been riding clipless for the last couple years and it has been a love-hate relationship. (by the way, I do XC riding). I loved riding clipless on less technique rides....I completely agree that there is a true advantage, especially on uphills.
> 
> But, as many of you will agree....as you get older, getting hurt becomes a much bigger concern. With a job, house, and husband I just can't risk a serious injury. Within the last couple weeks I have had some pretty bad crashes...no major injuries, but scary nonetheless. I am fine clipping in the pedals, and usually can get out fast enough to brace a fall....but the last couple rides, I went over a log pile and there happened to be a misplaced log on the other side....BAM! I know if I had platform shoes I could have avoided a crash.
> 
> ...


Great post. Thanks for the info. So what pedals are you using? I am also in the same boat. I am a XC rider too and have considered platforms. My body just doesn't heal as quickly as it used to after big falls.


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## conard10 (Jun 2, 2005)

I was using my husband's Odyssey Cielencki pedals....they worked great, but were HUGE. I know that platforms should have a large surface, but with very small feet and a small bike they just didn't seem right. So, I just ordered Atomlab Trailpimps....they are smaller than most platforms and very thin.....but they don't have the replaceplacable screws like the Odysseys, so I might lose a little grip.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Just be careful with which platforms you choose or what armor you're wearing if safety is the priority. I use platform pedals for difficult DH courses, but the sharp pins on most platforms can tear you up pretty good too. I needed 20 some stitches in the back of my ankle from slipping a foot off of one and then bouncing over a log. 

That, and personally, my bad knees don't do well with platforms. The pins hold your feet very tight, and they stay in the position you set your foot on the pedal in. Which means if my foot is angled off funny - that's where it's staying unless I lift it off and try and get it straighter. With clipless, there's float - my foot will align naturally and my knees are fine - but a good platform with sticky soled shoes is essentially zero float. 

So this year, I've finally made the switch to clipless even for DH and haven't had any problems getting out of them. 

Mind you, I used platforms for DH for years, so I'm not saying they're bad. Just not perfect.


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## conard10 (Jun 2, 2005)

Thanks for the advice Connie! I have heard some horror stories about shins getting torn up using platforms. I really wish I could stay clipless, but sometimes I just can't get out of the pedals. 

The times I have had some bad crashes were going fast over large log piles...I have plenty of speed, fly right over, but then there were misplaced logs a couple feet from the pile...mid-air, I found it impossible to get on time. Also, going down steep hills, then hitting a creek crossing....with that kind of speed, I have hit a slippery rock...and bam. I know even with platforms these kinds of crashes could happen, but at least I would be able to somewhat brace my falls. 

Who knows, I could be back to clipless in a couple weeks!


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## Potential Roadkill (Nov 5, 2004)

*Clipless options for techincal riding*

Going clipless is always a challenge for sure. After about 10 years of riding only clipless pedals I find the motion to get unclipped pretty instinctive and about as fast as it would be to move my foot off a platform pedal. When first learning to ride clipless after falling over with the bike still quite firmly stuck to my feet I found that downhill/freeride style clipless pedals with a platform around the attachment point helped. I'd unclip before hitting a technical portion of the ride, place my cleat behind or in front of the attachment point on the pedal and reclipping in after riding through or dabbing at the crux point of the technical section. Now I ride a standard eggbeater type clipless pedal and have no real issues getting unclipped, with the notable exception of when a car turned in front of me and I impacted with the right rear quarter panel and found myself laying in the street on my back with the bike in the air stuck to my feet.


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## jimbo2k (Dec 31, 2003)

*Early in my clipless expierence*

Oh so many years ago. I was crossing an elevated bridge over a swamp. I got too close to the edge and instead of correcting, I froze (still have that tendancy). Off I went into about two feet of water, bike on top of me and still clipped in. Water up near my nose and completely unable to clip out. Friends had to pull me out. Dont think I would have drowned, as self preservation would have taken over. Have had that problem on other crashes when all the free rotation is taken up and you cant move your feet. I still swear by clipless, and dont feel comfortable on platform pedals. Talk about being unable to unclip, have you ever had a cleat loosen up. Happened once and had to unlace my shoe to get out. LOL. jim


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## axhoaxho (Jul 14, 2006)

I have been riding for almost forty years. I found that sometimes I do need clipless and sometimes I do need platform. So when I see the CrankBrothers Mallet (platform with built-in EggBeater), I bought a pair of Mallet M (Magnesium version) and tried them.

So far I like it, for those days when I just want to go out for a relax ride, I put on my running shoes, step on my bike, and ride it like a platform.

When the days that I need to ride a long x-country trail, I put on my clipless bike-shoes, step on my bike, kick-into the Mallet and ride it like a EggBeater clipless.

It is good enough for a dual-purpose setup, I recommend it. 

With best regards,


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## de00304 (Apr 30, 2004)

There are also options in terms of cleats that make releasing much easier. For the lower end shimano pedals, you can get their multi-release cleat, which allows you pull out at various angles, including straight up.

I run Time ATAC pedals and I get a "shaved cleat" from Speedgoat (www.speedgoat.com). Basically the standard Time brass cleat slightly grinded down to achieve the same multi-release capability. I am able to release in any direction, and can just pull out quickly when I need to. The price to pay for this is I sometimes come out early, but it is a fair tradeoff in my book.

Speedgoat also offers a shaved cleat for crank bro pedals, but I haven't tried them.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

ladies...ladies... POWERGRIPS !!!!

http://www.powergrips.com/


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> ladies...ladies... POWERGRIPS !!!!
> 
> http://www.powergrips.com/


To me - that's a death trap. Clipless, you can get out of in a millisecond, and you natrually come out of them in 99.9% of falls. Straps (of any sort) are holding you in there. You can only release in one direction, and you'd have to wiggle out of them - with your shoes sticking to the spiky grippy pedal. That means no consistent release - and no release at all if you can't pull your foot backwards when you need to.

I would never recommend those to anyone doing any sort of trail riding. While most things are "whatever you feel comfortable with" or "whatever fits best" - that's one item I think is actually dangerous, unless you're just riding around on very smooth or paved trails.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

connie said:


> To me - that's a death trap.....


PowerGrips work well with the serrated steel cage pedals, we had a rider that used them for years, until the lbs stopped carrying them. Heck, most of us old farts used to use toe clips on trails - there's vintage footage of Wade Simmons riding a big down-sloped log with toe clips.

PowerGrips were not designed to work with the BMX style studded platform pedals (which work fine on trails once you have the technique!).


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## r39205 (Aug 8, 2005)

*Just in case...*

You all probably know this, but it was recently news to me, so maybe there are a few other clueless riders out there. <G> Most SPD-type pedals have adjustable tension on them, you can use an alan wrench to tighten or loosen the tension. Who knew? I get the best of both worlds by using clipless pedals with the tension set as loose as possible. It's easier to get in and out, it requires almost no effort. For me, I feel safer with the clipless pedals, as I feel a lot more connected to the bike (assuming I am actually riding it and not flying through the air). I can still dab or get off easily. But I'm sure a lot of it is mental either for those that love clipless or feel nervous about them.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

itsdoable said:


> PowerGrips work well with the serrated steel cage pedals, we had a rider that used them for years, until the lbs stopped carrying them. Heck, most of us old farts used to use toe clips on trails - there's vintage footage of Wade Simmons riding a big down-sloped log with toe clips.
> 
> PowerGrips were not designed to work with the BMX style studded platform pedals (which work fine on trails once you have the technique!).


I used toe clips on my first bike for a little while too - didn't realize that just because the bike came with them they weren't my only option....

There are all kind of "vintage" items that I wouldn't recommend for use today. I didn't say that it couldn't be done, just that if it were someone I cared about heading out on an even moderately technical trail with those, I'd try to talk them out of it. I think it's easy for beginners to rationalize toe clips and power grips because it seems less complex and they are cheap. And I think most beginners think clipless pedals are hard to get out of, when they are not. I'd really only recommend power grips for someone who is only planning to ride bike paths and doesn't want to spend the money on clipless. If you're going to ride trails and don't want (or don't have the money for) clipless, then go with decent platforms and flat soled/sticky rubber shoes (I did this for several years of DH riding, and just used clipless for XC). Just my opinion.


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## PrincipalRider (Jun 24, 2005)

I am waiting for pedals that can read your mind. When you need to get out, they just let go. Some may think I am crazy, but give it some time. Someone will think of a way.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

connie said:


> To me - that's a death trap. Clipless, you can get out of in a millisecond, and you natrually come out of them in 99.9% of falls. Straps (of any sort) are holding you in there. You can only release in one direction, and you'd have to wiggle out of them - with your shoes sticking to the spiky grippy pedal. That means no consistent release - and no release at all if you can't pull your foot backwards when you need to.
> 
> I would never recommend those to anyone doing any sort of trail riding. While most things are "whatever you feel comfortable with" or "whatever fits best" - that's one item I think is actually dangerous, unless you're just riding around on very smooth or paved trails.


That's wrong. Getting into powergrips does take a wiggle but getting out of them does not. Your heels normally tend to kick outwards when you bail, that's why clipless pedals work, and powergrips with LP platform pedals, as in the photo on their site, work as well for releasing as do oh, Speedplay Frogs. They only tighten up the most if you adopt a slightly heel inwards position with your foot on the pedals, and the tension is adjustable as well for different size shoes/feet. They're simply amazing for winter riding. Have you ever even used Powergrips ?


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> That's wrong. Getting into powergrips does take a wiggle but getting out of them does not. Your heels normally tend to kick outwards when you bail, that's why clipless pedals work, and powergrips with LP platform pedals, as in the photo on their site, work as well for releasing as do oh, Speedplay Frogs. They only tighten up the most if you adopt a slightly heel inwards position with your foot on the pedals, and the tension is adjustable as well for different size shoes/feet. They're simply amazing for winter riding. Have you ever even used Powergrips ?


Astounding that no one was using them at the races I've been to this year...

Okay, deathtrap might be an exaggeration, but I still wouldn't recommend them for any sort of trail riding. (Again, that's not to say that someone can't safely ride whatever they want to in them, just that I would recommend platforms or clipless for safety reasons.) Sure, your foot may be loose with the same heel flick, but you still have to get OUT once it's loose. On clipless, once you do the heel flick your foot can go backwards, forwards, to the inside or outside or straight up. With those, you need to go back/to the side. The way I see it, you just lost more than half your options. Not to mention, now you've got to get them flipped to the correct side to get back in. And if you ride with them upside down because you haven't gotten it flipped the right direction yet, you risk snagging them on something.

I've never owned any powergrips, but I did try them once. Yes, they're better than the toe clip cage things, but still a far cry from good a clipless system or a good platform, IMO. I've never tried speedplay frogs either though. I used SPDs for years until I bought my first Crank Bros pedals, and they're just about perfect. Now I'm riding DH in them because they're so easy to get in and out of.

I am curious though, why they would be great for winter riding? Not that I would even do any winter riding (when available, skiing takes priority over biking), but I'm not seeing any obvious reasoning for that.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*I can hold my tongue no longer*

This whole issue of having difficulty with clipless pedals and timely release comes down to proper adustment. If you don't need the power they offer or have difficulty keeping your feet on the pedals then they are a waste.

Every year I break in new riders and they come with baggies, skateboard/BMX helmets, flat pedals and such. 
When you look at the Varsity Starting line (Seniors) that stuff is all gone and replaced by spandex, spd pedals and cycling helmets. Theres a good reason; they work. By the sedon race nearly all the freshmen have gone to clipless pedals and at seasons end it is 100%. Heck, the Sophmore Starting line uses spds and cycling helmets; they are still a little self concious about the spandex.

The only reason I can see for people to not be able to use spd pedals is that they aren't comfortable with them. I hear stories about people being trapped in spds. It isn't a problem with the pedals.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

connie said:


> Astounding that no one was using them at the races I've been to this year...


That's probably to do with the fact only two of us in this thread even know about them. They're not widely marketed anymore other than small ads in the back of magazines like bicycling, which mainly caters to roadies anyways.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Berkeley Mike said:


> This whole issue of having difficulty with clipless pedals and timely release comes down to proper adustment. If you don't need the power they offer or have difficulty keeping your feet on the pedals then they are a waste.
> 
> Every year I break in new riders and they come with baggies, skateboard/BMX helmets, flat pedals and such.
> When you look at the Varsity Starting line (Seniors) that stuff is all gone and replaced by spandex, spd pedals and cycling helmets. Theres a good reason; they work. By the sedon race nearly all the freshmen have gone to clipless pedals and at seasons end it is 100%. Heck, the Sophmore Starting line uses spds and cycling helmets; they are still a little self concious about the spandex.
> ...


Well, dirt jumping and some DH courses make good platforms a better option. But for XC riding, I totally agree.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*I think I'd like those Power things*

on a towny or beach cruiser.


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