# 2015 Canfield Jedi or 2015 Trek Session 9.9 650b



## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

Debating on which one to go for. Looks like I'm going to have to wait a while for either. The canfield looks sexy and looks very durable. The session is insanely light, high tech, and has 650b. Carbon though..not sure about how long it will last. 

I can probably build them up for about the same price. What do you think?


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## Rob-Bob (Jun 11, 2004)

650b if you are concerned about race times. Jedi because its bad ass.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

Well considering the Trek is $500 more than a brand new YZ450f, I would suggest no one buy it to protest these ridiculous prices.


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

yea i would never pay full retail for it. but i would get a pretty good deal on it considering the msrp. although trek says they probably will never have any "in stock" this year since it is so popular and you have to get on a waiting list....and those that are employee purchasing them at a discount rate are at the end of the list. the jedi is badass. anyone know how much those frames weigh?


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

Canfield all the way. 

Full disclosure: I own a Canfield One. Hands down, the best bike I've ever ridden in its class. Fantastic bike in every way. This post will be a bit long, as I feel very strongly about this topic. I apologize in advance.

Yes, the Session has all sorts of fancy bits on it like 650b. Those are cool, but is it going to be a night and day difference? No. 650b is not like trading in your roller skates and getting a monster truck. The difference is there, but is very minimal. I'd doubt anyone except upper-tier racers would be able to extract real advantage of the tiny benefits of 650b over 26. Additionally, if you have larger wheels, you may need stiffer, more burly (more $) rims to counteract the increased flex. This is especially apparent in 29ers, but is also present in a lot of 650b wheels too. If I'm riding DH and not racing, I'd take durability and reliability over a 1-2% increase in rolling ease. But that's not the real selling point for me.

What WILL make a huge difference is suspension design. The Trek has a very lackluster linkage design, IMO. Same thing that's been done for nearly a decade. It performs ok, but the one I rode felt like it blew through the mid-stroke too quickly and wanted to hang out around 50% compressed no matter what shock/spring settings I had. It just felt... boring. When I hit square edges, it felt horribly harsh. Canfield's design moves both upward AND backward, absorbing those hard little hits, keeping your speed up (and lessening the impact your body feels too). That rearward path alone will make FAR more difference in speed than wheels with a slightly larger radius. I met Lance Canfield in the lift line at Whistler a few weeks ago, and we took a run together. He was on a 2014 Jedi, and I was on a Canfield One. We had similar tire setups, and I weigh a good amount more than he does. So if we started at the same time and just coasted along, I should at least be able to keep up, if not pass him, considering simple physics. We would start out at the same time, and his Jedi would instantly be going FAR faster than my bike. And it kept getting faster and faster. It was unreal how fast it coasted, and how quiet it was while descending. It just soaked up everything in its path and kept gaining speed. Never seen anything like it.

Lastly, customer service. I've read tons of complaints with bike companies not honoring warranties, taking forever to fix something that went wrong, etc. My friend has had issues with his Trek Fuel's pivot bearings from the day he got the bike, and Trek won't even return his calls/emails. Canfield has the best customer service I've ever experienced, in any type of business. There's a story somewhere on MTBR of a guy who broke his rear triangle (in a crash I believe), just before his trip to Whistler. Not Canfield's fault at all, but the guy was going to have to ride a rental bike on his trip. The Canfield guys frequent these forums, and they got word of it. It wasn't even their fault, yet they rush-shipped him a new one in a day or two, just so that he could go on his trip with his bike, and charged him a pittance for it. That's the kind of people they are. When I called a few years ago to ask a few questions about bike setup/geometry, Sean stopped mid-way down the mountain while on a group ride to answer the phone and chat with me and make sure all my questions were answered. Nobody else would do that. They are a class-act in every way. They're not some small, might-disappear-tomorrow company. The are all incredibly good riders, they've been building bikes for a long time, and their bikes are amazing. Super durable, super fast.

The TL,DR version: Owning a Session (even a carbon one) will be like having a belly button. Nothing special. Everybody's got one. Owning a Canfield is owning something unique. Something truly special. When you see others with Canfields, there's an instant understanding between you. But even more important than owning something unique, it has the performance to back it up. Holy s__ they're good bikes. Get one and you'll see what I mean.


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## rsullivan (May 16, 2009)

My experience with Canfield is very similar to Charging_Rhinos.....Never had the pleasure to coast with Lance, but have spoken with Sean and the others from Canfield many times. Multiple times while they were riding!!!! This must be the reason why the are FIVE Canfields in my home with 2 more on the way!!!!Besides they ride like no other bikes out there.
I have worked at multiple bike shops, including a Trek shop for over a year. Owned a Trek Fuel EX8 for a matter of 2 weeks... just couldn't get the feel for it. I built a Canfield the ONE in 2011 right before leaving for Moab, never test rode it. Just shipped it out on my buddies jeep trailer and flew out. 1st ride felt right at home.... NEVER looked back and still riding it hard to this day... Granted it will soon be set aside as a single crown park bike due to the Balance soon to be in my possesion!!


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

ON my second Canfield Jedi, currently riding a '14. All I can say is it is amazing, I am no pro just a weekend warrior that loves to go fast over knarly stuff. The Jedi plows so well its crazy. I ran a Xfusion HLR on my '12 and it was amazing, now running a CCDB coil on the '14 and it is pretty awesome. I personally cannot give much feedback between the 2 years as I am coming off a pretty terrible wrist injury so riding alot smoother this season but the bike rips. It makes up for my short comings when riding out of my comfort zone. On top of that the support you will get from the Canfield team is awesome. I wouldn't ride anything else.


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## TheRage43 (Jul 19, 2012)

And so enters the Canfield supporters..

I, too, have been converted. I've ridden just about all of the major brands over the last 10 years and have always drooled over the Bros' designs. Finally I had the chance to get a ONE, and it was/is the best feeling bike I've ever ridden. This prompted me to get a Jedi and now I'm on my 3rd ONE ('13) and my 2nd Jedi ('14), and as long as my friends keep begging me to sell them the one I'm on, I'll keep building new ones!

The Jedi is hands down the best DH rig I've ridden. It's my secret weapon and anything else I ride now is sub-par. I do not know if they plan on making a 650b Jedi, but that's the only thing that would prompt me to get a new one at this point. You'll have to get in early with a pre-order, this year they sold out of larges in a matter of weeks. Although, I do believe they did a second run a little later. As it's been said, call or email them and you'll be persuaded to join the family, these guys set the bar very high for personalized customer service.

I know nothing of the new 9.9, other than it would surely be more than a comparable build on a Jedi.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

I still ride 26 and will continue to ride 26. But I'm not going to put new money into a new 26 bike. The writing is on the wall. 27.5 is taking over. If you put 6000 dollars into a new 26 inch bike, good luck getting 2500 back within a week of purchase. 

I wish it werent so, but dems the breaks.


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## rsullivan (May 16, 2009)

If you build the right 26er and it fits everything you desire, then you shouldn't be worried about what you would get on resale. You would ride it until it "dies"... That being said... I am staying 26" on my DH bike---unless the Bros release a 27.5" Jedi..


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*Another Jedi owner chiming in...*

I think the current MY bike is a '14, not '15...?

Large 2014 Jedi w/ an Avalanche Woodie and a DVO Emerald.

WHAT A MACHINE! So Craig had really dialed in the Jedi tune! I had to open up the DVO a bit...lighter oil and different shims...but it's finally coming to life!

My home resort is Trestle...VERY fast, relatively smooth, and jumpy resort. I took the bike to Keystone today and had to retweak the settings on the front and back. Anyway, my goal was to go mellow and get reacquainted w/ the old-school chunder-tastic style at KS. I guess mellow is relative when you're on a Jedi.

If you get a Jedi, don't spare expense on brakes! You'll need good ones! It's spooky how fast that bike gets up to speed and keeps it! And, I had some issues w/ the '11 to '13 Jedi...it just sticks to the ground and plows. I had a difficult time getting it airborne w/o riding it at mach-looney speeds. But the '14, I can get that thing to pop like a champagne cork! A buddy I was riding w/ who was on a Scott Gambler said I clear jumps at a certain speed that he'd short by 5 ft when he was riding behind me.

And, when you drop the outside pedal, stomp on it, and lean the bike into a turn...friggin' WOW does that thing like to rail! Go into it a bit fork biased, then rock back as you exit...HOLY CRAP, hang on! Oh, and you'll need some water to wash the bugs out of your grill from the smile it induces!

Hope this rant is coherent as I'm on an endorphin and pizza high


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

rsullivan said:


> If you build the right 26er and it fits everything you desire, then you shouldn't be worried about what you would get on resale. You would ride it until it "dies"... That being said... I am saying 26" on my DH bike---unless the Bros release a 27.5" Jedi..


If it does come to fruition, then I can see a _need_ to go to plastic hoops for a B'd Jedi, to keep the stiffness in the wheel and how the bike tracks. I'm running LB 23mm plastic hoops on my Tallboy LT, and it doesn't express any of the wheel flex I've been hearing about wagon wheels.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

TheRage43 said:


> And so enters the Canfield supporters..
> 
> I, too, have been converted. I've ridden just about all of the major brands over the last 10 years and have always drooled over the Bros' designs. Finally I had the chance to get a ONE, and it was/is the best feeling bike I've ever ridden. This prompted me to get a Jedi and now I'm on my 3rd ONE ('13) and my 2nd Jedi ('14), and as long as my friends keep begging me to sell them the one I'm on, I'll keep building new ones!
> 
> ...


Hey Rage, you heading up to Trestle on Sunday? We need to go do some laps and make it Rain!


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## TheRage43 (Jul 19, 2012)

Pau11y said:


> Hey Rage, you heading up to Trestle on Sunday? We need to go do some laps and make it Rain!


Keystone tomorrow for some laps, then taking the day off on sun for cleaning/tuning/packing as I leave for Whistler on thursday for 10 days


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

what size jedi's you guys got? I think i''m convicned and i want one. I'm just short of 6'3". I think they are making an XL size for 2015. Can't decide between L and XL.


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## rsullivan (May 16, 2009)

just shy of 6'2".. riding a large with a 45 mm stem... super comfortable


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

how much room is between your bars and your knees when sitting and pedaling?


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## rsullivan (May 16, 2009)

Sitting and pedaling. ....about 9in


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## TheRage43 (Jul 19, 2012)

6' even and I run a large. I could run a medium and be fine but I love the way this rides long and low. With the right parts a large could fit you very well, though if they did make a XL, you would probably have the same kind of fit that I have on the large.

I rode keystone today and absolutely smashed it. The thing just sticks to the ground when I need it to, and FLIES like a bird when I ask. Just an absolute dream to ride!


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

6'3"? XL no question. Anyone who tells you a L doesn't know how to fit a DH bike.



metalMTB said:


> what size jedi's you guys got? I think i''m convicned and i want one. I'm just short of 6'3". I think they are making an XL size for 2015. Can't decide between L and XL.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

for the size ask sean @canfield they no theirs job!!


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

id go canfield just because of of their reputation and customer care,,,, ive never met the brothers, but i have met vinnie, he was more than happy to chat to me and answer my questions, even let me throw a leg over his bike. very very friendly chap. 
if i hadnt got such a great deal on the knolly then i would have been shredding a canfield for sure...


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## KillingtonVT (Apr 1, 2004)

Haha! All you guys rock! Thank you all for your support, this is what drives Canfield to push our products boundaries as far as possible. 

We are excited to bring back the XL's in Jedis for 2015. After the size adjustment we made in 2014, we didn't think that we would need the XL's. Most companies XL DH bikes run the approximate reach of our Large. However, we had enough requests from tall customers that it just made sense.

Our 2015's will be hitting early this run, possibly before the first of the year. Lastly, who knows, there might even be a small change to allow for... Oops, did I say that?

Cheers!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

KillingtonVT said:


> ...who knows, there might even be a small change to allow for... Oops, did I say that?


Man, about time!  WOOT! Back gnawing on the finger nails in anticipation again! 
Now, just gotta see about the CTA upgrade for the Emerald...


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## TheRage43 (Jul 19, 2012)

KillingtonVT said:


> Haha! All you guys rock! Thank you all for your support, this is what drives Canfield to push our products boundaries as far as possible.
> 
> We are excited to bring back the XL's in Jedis for 2015. After the size adjustment we made in 2014, we didn't think that we would need the XL's. Most companies XL DH bikes run the approximate reach of our Large. However, we had enough requests from tall customers that it just made sense.
> 
> ...


I was just getting comfy on this one! Oh well I've already had offers that buys a new one...


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## bluntrager (Jul 7, 2013)

So...is it too late to get a large 2015 Jedi? I'm 5'11 though, would a medium fit better? If I can't get one...I might just get a Session Park.

I'm riding a 2014 Trek Slash (650b) now though, and it is an awesome bike. I can definitely tell the difference between 26" wheels and wouldn't hesitate buying another Trek, 26" or 650b.

But the Canfield sounds super sick for riding at Northstar where there is tons of toothy terrain that slows me down faster than a squirrel running through a tar pit. 

I heard the lengthening of the wheelbase of the Jedi feels weird, especially during cornering, is this truly noticeable? 

Lastly, if not Session or Jedi, then 951 or TR500 or Wilson? There really are so many options out there, please convince me more. Are there any financing options available for the Jedi? Sad to say, but the main reason I bought the Trek was because they made it so easy for me.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bluntrager said:


> I heard the lengthening of the wheelbase of the Jedi feels weird, especially during cornering, is this truly noticeable?


A total non-issue, overblown by armchair engineers who'd especulate about the amount of navel lint they have while couch-jockying during Sunday football games instead of riding.

Bulk of the rearward movement is in the first 35% of the bike's travel. You toss a bike into a corner at speed, you're already beyond that point.


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## bluntrager (Jul 7, 2013)

Pau11y said:


> A total non-issue, overblown by armchair engineers who'd especulate about the amount of navel lint they have while couch-jockying during Sunday football games instead of riding.
> 
> Bulk of the rearward movement is in the first 35% of the bike's travel. You toss a bike into a corner at speed, you're already beyond that point.


Hahaha, that's some good stuff! Looks like I might be getting a 2016 Jedi then. If speed is the name of the game--which it sounds lot it is--I'm sold.

Medium or large? Again, I'm 5'11 and prefer a large if in between.

Thanks!


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## KillingtonVT (Apr 1, 2004)

bluntrager said:


> Hahaha, that's some good stuff! Looks like I might be getting a 2016 Jedi then. If speed is the name of the game--which it sounds lot it is--I'm sold.
> 
> Medium or large? Again, I'm 5'11 and prefer a large if in between. Thanks!


HAHA - You mean 2015. At 5'11" you can ride both sizes. It's all personal preferences.


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## bluntrager (Jul 7, 2013)

KillingtonVT said:


> HAHA - You mean 2015. At 5'11" you can ride both sizes. It's all personal preferences.


Well I'd love to get a 2015, but realistically I'll have to wait a while and save some money. Otherwise the old lady will chop my nuts off!

Ill let let you know if a miracle happens though. . I've got a $2000 watch for sale so if that goes through, I'll be all over it.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bluntrager said:


> Well I'd love to get a 2015, but realistically I'll have to wait a while and save some money. Otherwise the old lady will chop my nuts off!
> 
> Ill let let you know if a miracle happens though. . I've got a $2000 watch for sale so if that goes through, I'll be all over it.


Wait til end of this bike season, and I'll send you my lrg '14 (frame) for that price, w/ a CCDB! 

Baby wagon wheelz...MOAR WHEELZ!


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

i keep making up my mind on large then switching to xl and vice versa. frustrating being in between sizes...


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

metalMTB said:


> i keep making up my mind on large then switching to xl and vice versa. frustrating being in between sizes...


If it helps any... I'm 6'0" with a 34" inseam, and my large 2011 feels perfect. I'm pretty sure you want the XL.

Look at the reach length for the bike(s) you have now, and compare that to the Jedi's reach for the L and XL franes. That should give you some idea of what to expect.


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

im a couple inches taller than you but the 2014 larges are bigger than the 2011s correct?


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

metalMTB said:


> im a couple inches taller than you but the 2014 larges are bigger than the 2011s correct?


I'm 5' 11, 7/8" w/ 33" inseam, and prefer larger bikes. I rode a XL '13 w/ an 800mm bar and 55mm stem. It was juuuuuuuuust a touch too long...prob could have had it perfect if the stem was moved back to the 40mm setting. 
Right now, I'm on a large '14 w/ that same 55mm stem and 800mm bar. Perfect fit!

I made this table when I was shopping for the '14, just to get some numbers side by side for eval.


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

I don't know how the 2011 compares to the 2015. I'm guessing they're not too different, since they did four sizes (S M L XL) for both years, but it's just a guess. 

If anyone has the numbers for the 2011 Jedi I'd love to have them as a reference. I saved the specs for my other two bikes but didn't think to do that when I bought the Jedi.


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## KillingtonVT (Apr 1, 2004)

NWS said:


> I don't know how the 2011 compares to the 2015. I'm guessing they're not too different, since they did four sizes (S M L XL) for both years, but it's just a guess.
> 
> If anyone has the numbers for the 2011 Jedi I'd love to have them as a reference. I saved the specs for my other two bikes but didn't think to do that when I bought the Jedi.


NWS- the gen2 2011-2013 numbers are the same. For 2014, we lengthened the sizes by 1/2". Due to several 6'5" + riders requesting XL's over the season, we decided to bring back the XL. It is going to be a BIG bike as the reach is 18.5". Here's the 2015 geo chart:








Use this with Pauly's 2013/2014 chart and you'll have every number possible.

Cheers!


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## cSquared (Jun 8, 2006)

The 2011 is the same geo as the '13.

And- confirmed 18.5 Reach on the XL for 2015.


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

Fantastic, thanks guys!


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

sweet. so glad i decided not to buy a trek!


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

You're 4% taller than me.
A large 2015 has a reach that is 2.9% longer than my 2011.
An XL 2015 has a reach that is 8.8% longer.

I'm changing my vote to Large for you.


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## ak pura vida (Dec 15, 2008)

So I have to chime in as well to this thread as I am the person mentioned in one of the earlier post about the broken rear triangle. Found it 4 days before leaving for our yearly whistler trip, I live in Alaska, as I was packing the bike. (This was on the older Diggle frame that is no longer produced). Thought I was SOL, posted my sob story on MTBR late sunday, and by the time I called Monday morning Sean or Vin (can't remember now as I have talked with both of them multiple times) had already seen my post and was waiting for my call. They had found the last Diggle rear triangle sitting in there warehouse and just needed my address so they could get it in the mail. Didn't charge me a dime for the triangle, I just paid for the over night shipping. Amazing customer service. Keep in mind, this was a frame they no longer produced and was already 3+ years old. I upgraded to a 13 Jedi, and WOW what an upgrade. LOVE the bike. I have no problems jumping the bike and just spent nine day in Whistler clearing jumps I've never cleared and never thought I would clear. With how much I hear others talk about the new 14s makes me really one to try one... 

I also had the pleasure of being able to meet and ride with the Canfield crew last year in Whistler. They like to ride their bikes as much as they like to build them. Just good all around guys and seem to really care about their product and that people are happy with it. With the time, support, and interest a decidedly NOT VIP like myself received they pretty much have a customer for life. I am already considering "upgrading" to a new Jedi frame and my next trail bike WILL be the balance. Plus I have three young kids so there will be a KDH in my garage with in a year or two. Call me a fan-boy all you want, with the experience I've had with Canfield I will never deny it and actually embrace it! 

Good luck with your choice.

PV


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

metalMTB said:


> sweet. so glad i decided not to buy a trek!


Seriously! If you think it's a good decision now, just wait 'til you ride their bikes. Mindblowing. Welcome to the family.


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## bluntrager (Jul 7, 2013)

How "poppy" is the Jedi? I get the impression that Sessions and Jedis just ride like apples and oranges, making the comparisons slightly biased here in favor of a bike that's fast and stays glued to the ground (Jedi) vs one that's "poppy", and maybe a bit more maneuverable at the cost of stability (Session). I'm just trying to be as objective as possible. Is this an accurate assessment?


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

I think the amount of pop depends mostly on your suspension settings. The Jedi (at least the one I've ridden) was super poppy compared to the V-10c that a SC rep loaned me last year. I think as long as you have a shock that is capable of a wide range of tuning, and has adjusters that actually make noticeable changes (think Cane Creek, for example), you should be able to make it pop very well. When I was following Lance Canfield down Crank It Up, the guy was boosting off of every jump like it was twice its actual size. Granted, he's a dang good rider, but his bike was absolutely exploding off of even the smaller lips.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bluntrager said:


> How "poppy" is the Jedi? I get the impression that Sessions and Jedis just ride like apples and oranges, making the comparisons slightly biased here in favor of a bike that's fast and stays glued to the ground (Jedi) vs one that's "poppy", and maybe a bit more maneuverable at the cost of stability (Session). I'm just trying to be as objective as possible. Is this an accurate assessment?


So, the '13 I was on, I had a harder time getting it to pop, unless I was riding at mach-looney speeds. But, I think I did the tune/setup wrong on it and putt too stiff a spring on the rear shock...500# on an Elka...and never got it deep enough into the stroke where the rear axle path became more vertical...unless I hit a jump at way too fast a speed. The thinking is on rebound the spring is splitting the return energy partly w/ for/aft _and_ partly w/ vertical movement of the axle instead of giving you all of it in vertical rebound...pop. And, the bike was a bit scary/unpredictable hitting airs at low speeds. And, hitting chunder at speed was the ONLY way to get the performance out of the rear because you're getting the shock deeper into its stroke.

But, on the '14, I went w/ the recommended spring (400#). It seems a bit light at first, but I just used the preload to dial in sag...~5 or 6 turns. But with this spring, and the appropriate HSC/LSC and rebound settings, I was able to tweak the bike's pop. 5 clicks out on the Avy Woodie's rebound and the thing would be like a rabid pogo stick. 5 clicks in, and the thing would mow over a supercross sized air. 
Stability isn't an issue w/ the '14's HTA and BB height, neither is maneuverability because of the shorty chain stays. What you will need to figure out is learn where/when to weight shift depending on what you're hitting...fwd a scooch on the steep chunder, back a scooh (after preloading your bike to pop) when taking booters, and rocking front to back exiting turns. You CANNOT ride this bike nonchalantly, you really need to _ride the hell out of the bike_, and then, it'll give it back to you.

BTW, Craig at Avy has REALLY dialed in the tune for the '14! It used to be he'd do the Woodie/DHS a bit overdamped...dead. But what he sent back to me for the '14 was spot-on! The only thing w/ an Avy is you HAVE to run a steel spring as a Ti has too much diameter and would hit the top of the shock tunnel when it's deep in its stroke. This is just from eyeballing...someone had footage of a CCDB reacting in the tunnel and things got pretty tight at near full compression. I'm not willing to find out by trail and error and risk damaging my sexy thang! 

I hope this drivel makes sense, and not just a bad case of verbal diarrhea 

Edit: disclaimer - have never been on a Session, and have no desire to


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## YYZ (Aug 3, 2012)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Well considering the Trek is $500 more than a brand new YZ450f, I would suggest no one buy it to protest these ridiculous prices.


Agreed.


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

well, i just committed and sent full payment today! i can't wait to see my jedi!!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

metalMTB said:


> well, i just committed and sent full payment today! i can't wait to see my jedi!!


You threw down on a '15 or a '14, and what size?


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## metalMTB (Sep 15, 2005)

a large 2015. I think they are out of everything but smalls for 2014. this wait is going to be torture!!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

metalMTB said:


> a large 2015. I think they are out of everything but smalls for 2014. this wait is going to be torture!!


Didn't realize preorders are going down already. Coolness!


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