# What's the best emtb value right now?



## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

This is kind of asking for a miracle. Mtbs are crazy expensive, and emtbs are even more expensive. What is the best bang for the buck right now? What is the best deal and still getting a rideable bike that can handle trails?

Like I said, I may be asking for too much, but I'd like to hear some opinions on what's out there.

Thank you for any replies.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

You might of just missed it. Specialized was selling Turbo Levo Comp alloys at 25% off. Sale ended last Monday.

You could try asking local dealers to see if they honor that price.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Story of my life


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## SCFord (Jul 12, 2019)

Honestly used market is probably the best way right now, new prices are pretty insane, used market is pretty flooded, definitely some good deals to be had. I’d narrow down the bike you want then look everyday for it used, sooner or later a good deal will pop up


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

SCFord said:


> Honestly used market is probably the best way right now, new prices are pretty insane, used market is pretty flooded, definitely some good deals to be had. I’d narrow down the bike you want then look everyday for it used, sooner or later a good deal will pop up


I would not buy a used ebike at the current moment. I don't think any of the drivetrains are reliable enough to justify the risk of a 1k motor or 1k battery replacement. The used price would have to be well below half of new to even get close to considering it... and then you have to account for suspension rebuilds, drivetrain etc etc. 

I think the best deals on emtb's at the moment are the following:
-Orbea rise h-series
-Discounted levo (as mentioned, the sale that made the levo the best value on the market just ended)
-Marin alpine trail
-commencal meta power
-giant reign e
-norco range vlt (available discounted at the moment)
-trek fuel exe 9.5

I think the reality is that you're spending 6k for something that has top of the range motor/battery. The rest of the componentry is basically equal between the options and a lot of it is consumable anyway. There are a few decent bikes in the 5k range, but most are using a sub standard motor e7000 and/or battery setup and it likely isn't worth it for the discount.


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## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

minimusprime said:


> I would not buy a used ebike at the current moment. I don't think any of the drivetrains are reliable enough to justify the risk of a 1k motor or 1k battery replacement. The used price would have to be well below half of new to even get close to considering it... and then you have to account for suspension rebuilds, drivetrain etc etc.


I agree 100%


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## SCFord (Jul 12, 2019)

I think it depends on your comfort level for maintenance on the bike and how ‘used’ it is. I personally wouldn’t consider a bike with a couple hundred miles on it highly used and would have pretty high faith that the motor and battery would last a good while longer. But to each there own, there’s definitely a level of confidence in buying new and having a warranty and mostly free tune ups, just depends on what you’re willing to pay for that.


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## Loll (May 2, 2006)

In another thread someone mentioned Glide-Roam e bike.

Below that walmart sells one for 1500.


Robot or human?



Sort of like back in the days buying a bicycle looking object from kmart.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

I'm not sure what the level of motor repair is available right now. Specialized told me they just swap out the motor. 2 years of swapping motors, then it's $1k every time your motor stops working. 

Hopefully in two years, we'll have mechanics/electricians that can service ebike motors like iPhones.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Coming from someone who rides size med, it's slim pickings. The Polygon Mt Bromo N7 $4499 is the lowest I'd settle for. Better spec than the Marin Alpine Trail E1, with similar geo. Full 29er already, if that's what you prefer over the mullet. The Alpine Trail E2, at 6300, would be my pick if I didn't want to do any upgrading.









- image credit: The Loam Wolf

Kona Remote 160 and Rocky Altitude Powerplay are considerations for size med too. I'd include the Canyon Torque:ON, but the STA is too slack on it for my tastes.

Currently riding a Motobecane HAL eBoost Pro and its geo is garbage. Virtually every part has needed replacing except for the frame, motor, battery, brakes, chainring, and suspension units. The battery mount needed replacing though, and the upper bushing + spacer hardware (which was originally improperly sized). I had bad luck playing the SRAM lotto and got a lemon for a fork, which flutters excessively when braking (oversized/loose fitting bushings?). Low price was appealing on paper, but its value turned out to be a disappointment. Wheels garbo, tires too flimsy, drivetrain unnecessarily high end (swapped to Deore/SLX 10spd after RD and cassette died), crank way too long (swapped to lower end Shimano 165), rotors too small, didn't keep any cockpit or seat related things... I'm under 135 lbs, so the XT 2-pots are adequate with rotors upgraded to 203mm, but would welcome even more power as I don't come close to reaching braking traction limits of the tires. I wouldn't buy again, nor rec anyone else to buy.

Riders who can fit on large have better selection (Canyon Spectral:ON looks good on paper), and XL has even more options (Fezzari Wire Peak). I'd advise avoiding emtbs with absurdly long chainstay length, especially if you're "skinny". If something has 440mm CS, the WB shouldn't be under 1250mm in your size, for example. Add +20 to WB for every +5 in CS (445CS 1270 WB).

The emtb industry is _mostly_ catering to relatively-feeble/casual people who want cruisers, and people with money who want to "pay2win" with luxuries like being relatively lightweight, plus growing niche categories like utility/eSUV, reigniting people's desire for adventuring far and wide. I'd rather see a brand catering to someone wanting modern enduro bike performance at a budget (~$3k), but motorized (+$2k and +20 lbs) instead of loaded with carbon or higher tier weight-saving parts (+2k and -3.5 lbs).


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## kevjob (Jan 25, 2021)

I have the 2022 Giant Reign E+2 I bought for 6100 this summer. It has 625 wh battery and is very quiet and natural when motor kicks on after not pedalling. Check out this review of the Reign E+3 which is 5600 but was out of stock when I bought mine.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Some good info here


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## BigBull (Feb 4, 2004)

Stopped by my LBS last week (Sharp Bicycle in Bay Area), Owner told me that all Rail models are on 20% sale now. It's not on any website or bike's price sticker, you just have to ask.
If you are more enduro/downhill oriented, Backcountry.com has Niner WFO E9 for under 5k, seems like a good deal.


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## shakabra (Jun 7, 2009)

Most everyone I know (aside from myself, fingers crossed) has had a warranty issue involving the motor or battery in the first two years of eMTB ownership. So I would echo the comments about buying new over used. YT's Decoy models are a great bang for the buck ($2-3k less than similar builds from Santa Cruz, Specialized, etc.), if you can deal with a smaller than ideal battery and no dealer network.


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## westadamsvets (Nov 9, 2010)

Sorry for the run-on blather but here's my journey to present day decadence:

My "gateway drug" was a city bike rental 6 months ago:









Bike Share


Bosch is proud to partner with BCycle to electrify bike share. With BCycle, anyone can try a Bosch-equipped eBike to cut their commute, discover new neighborhoods, or simply have some fun.




www.bosch-ebike.com





$1.75 for 30 minutes... what could go wrong??

Completely hooked, I did a Bafang coversion on my existing mtb hardtail which ruined me as far as loving the power (120nm torque). 

Very fun on street or climbing a straight ahead steep hill but horrible on a winding single track where any sort of precision is required. The bafang responds only to cadence so as much as I tried I could not really learn to control it safely on a trail, while the bosch city bike was instantly familiar feeling.

So, bought the cheapest brand new hardtail mtb available locally with the latest and greatest Bosch mid drive for ~$4k which has approx the power of the bafang but has the responsiveness of the torque sensor. Wish I had bought full suspension but wife would have killed me if spent more money.

FWIW, I'm 48 and was feeling shitty with mid-life crisis fitness decline and had stopped riding mtb from frustration. The ebike has been a total joy and makes me feel great when I ride it on street or on trail. Even ten minutes at dusk or dawn riding around the block feels like being a ten year old on my first bmx. Fun to bash round jumping curbs and just randomly goofing off. So, I'm riding on street every day at dusk or dawn and go to trail about once a week. 

My wife thinks I'm insane for spending so much money which we can't really afford but I'm not regretting it since I ride it every chance I get so in some sense it's a good value as I stopped drinking and improved my diet because feel young again on a primal level.

Even having the "weak" 40nm city drive motor on the bosch city bike is a huge power increase over a "regular" bike and is a game changer that's hard to describe unless experiencing it for yourself. Good luck!


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Thanks for sharing all that


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## Roge (May 5, 2017)

As others have said, stay away from used with e-bikes. I would also suggest staying with bikes that have Bosch electronics. After that, to quote your thread title - 
*What's the best emtb value right now?*
Go to an LBS that will take the time to properly fit you, make sure you like every detail on the bike (e.g., will they change the saddle for you if you don't like it?). Do they let you take it for a test ride that is more than around the parking lot? If you need pedals and/or shoes or other items when you buy the bike, they are more likely to discount those items than the bike itself. When you come back in a few weeks or months with an issue, do you think they're more likely to come out and greet you or hide behind the counters? There are a lot of intangibles that make up value.


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## BigBull (Feb 4, 2004)

When I first started looking, I was thinking used bike to save money but soon realized it doesn't make sense for e-bike.. Since e-bike motors are still in developing stage, a reputable manufacture with solid warranty service is the most important factor IMO. I bought my last three analog bikes/frame online, did all build-up, upgrade, maintenance, rebuilt myself- NOT the same case for e-bike because of inevitable motor issue. I just bought a Fuel Exe for evolutionary quiet TQ motor but who knows how long it will last? I can upgrade all other components to top shape but if motor fails, the only option is $1,000 out of pocket without warranty.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

kevjob said:


> I have the 2022 Giant Reign E+2 I bought for 6100 this summer. It has 625 wh battery and is very quiet and natural when motor kicks on after not pedalling. Check out this review of the Reign E+3 which is 5600 but was out of stock when I bought mine.


I enjoyed the review and it really said the Reign hit what is important to me. BUT, what is the overall weight of the bike? I've ridden a lower end Trance-E in the wild and it was fine for me but, being a rental that went with a MTB tour in Hawaii, I didn't have to ever lift it other than after we stopped for a break. So, does anyone know the weight? 

PS: My first decent FS was a first generation Trance and I liked the Maestro suspension. Now I have an SC Tallboy and a 5010.


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## kevjob (Jan 25, 2021)

Rev Bubba said:


> I enjoyed the review and it really said the Reign hit what is important to me. BUT, what is the overall weight of the bike? I've ridden a lower end Trance-E in the wild and it was fine for me but, being a rental that went with a MTB tour in Hawaii, I didn't have to ever lift it other than after we stopped for a break. So, does anyone know the weight?
> 
> PS: My first decent FS was a first generation Trance and I liked the Maestro suspension. Now I have an SC Tallboy and a 5010.


I ride a large all stock from Giant and I beleive it is around 53 lbs. I put mine in my truck bed with bed extender laid flat as I have a topper. So far no problems lifting in or out.

I watched his Trance Advanced E+ review and it is why I decided to look into Giant as the motor is quiet no rattling on downhill and the natural on off of motor.

I wanted LBS support as I wasn't comfortable with YT or Canyon not having a store near me. So far the bike and motor are great for me I use it for enduro style trails and do multiple runs.


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## kevjob (Jan 25, 2021)

double post


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

kevjob said:


> I ride a large all stock from Giant and I beleive it is around 53 lbs. I put mine in my truck bed with bed extender laid flat as I have a topper. So far no problems lifting in or out.
> 
> I watched his Trance Advanced E+ review and it is why I decided to look into Giant as the motor is quiet no rattling on downhill and the natural on off of motor.
> 
> I wanted LBS support as I wasn't comfortable with YT or Canyon not having a store near me. So far the bike and motor are great for me I use it for enduro style trails and do multiple runs.


Thanks. I just looked at some more videos and for me, the Trance E is the appropriate bike. Even the lowest priced model appears to have a kit that will work for me. One important thing is how easy is it to remove the battery for charging. We live in an adult community (i.e. they think golf is an extreme sport) with zero electrical outlets so I would have to charge the battery in our condo? Is that doable? Like I said, I have no other option?

If I eventually do go E, I'm not getting rid of my almost new Santa Cruz Tallboy nor my 16 lbs. road bike. No batteries needed there.

I totally agree about having a local shop for my bike. I've ridden both a YT and Canyon and lack of a local shop is a deal breaker.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Commencal used to have the best ebikes price wise in my opinion. I got the highest end SRAM build for $6300 OTD when I ordered it the second it was released. Now that same build is listed at $7600 on the website. Same bike, large price increase.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

FlyRides has some bikes on sale/clearance right now. I bought my bike from them, and the service after the sale has been great. I'd have no hesitation in buying from them again.









Clearance Electric Bikes


Shop Electric Bikes products on clerance sale! A wide selection for your needs. 0% APR financing available. Excellent customer service. Click now to learn more.




flyridesusa.com


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## westadamsvets (Nov 9, 2010)

Regarding used vs. new:
During my city ebike renting phase, I rented about 20 times - each with relatively new bosch active line bike. Twice I had experience with glitches. After some time of riding hard, I would get error messages which would get fixed by turning off and on and resting for while. Maybe overheating or who knows.
The point is that when buying used on craigslist its hard to test ride the ebike hard enough for glitches to come up. Bike could be fine for quick ride pre-purchase and then have problems later with no recourse. Similarly, if seller was riding bike gently he could be acting in good faith but nevertheless sell bike that glitches under hard use. I tend to buy everything used, but made exception in this case so could have two years of peace of mind under the warranty.


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## kevjob (Jan 25, 2021)

Rev Bubba said:


> Thanks. I just looked at some more videos and for me, the Trance E is the appropriate bike. Even the lowest priced model appears to have a kit that will work for me. One important thing is how easy is it to remove the battery for charging. We live in an adult community (i.e. they think golf is an extreme sport) with zero electrical outlets so I would have to charge the battery in our condo? Is that doable? Like I said, I have no other option?
> 
> If I eventually do go E, I'm not getting rid of my almost new Santa Cruz Tallboy nor my 16 lbs. road bike. No batteries needed there.
> 
> I totally agree about having a local shop for my bike. I've ridden both a YT and Canyon and lack of a local shop is a deal breaker.


Battery removal is easy, t25 torx on side which bolts battery to frame then a thumb twist small nut under the downtube releases the battery cover and the battery comes out. The charger is fast, 3 hours to 90% from 10% and can e charged off the bike or on and comes with the dongle for both applications.

I still ride my Ripmo AF and love it but my knee does not like long climbs and mutiple days in a row. I live in Colorado front range and some of our climbs are brutal but the trails they gatekeep are worth the climbs, downhill bike only enduro style trails.

The Trance E+ is an alloy version and is pretty good, I went with Reign as I have steep rough enduro trails I love to ride and was in stock and the only ebike I could find early this summer. The Reign E loves steep, rough and big drops, the maestro suspension is awesome on the e bikes.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

kevjob said:


> Battery removal is easy, t25 torx on side which bolts battery to frame then a thumb twist small nut under the downtube releases the battery cover and the battery comes out. The charger is fast, 3 hours to 90% from 10% and can e charged off the bike or on and comes with the dongle for both applications.
> 
> I still ride my Ripmo AF and love it but my knee does not like long climbs and multiple days in a row. I live in Colorado front range and some of our climbs are brutal but the trails they gatekeep are worth the climbs, downhill bike only enduro style trails.
> 
> The Trance E+ is an alloy version and is pretty good, I went with Reign as I have steep rough enduro trails I love to ride and was in stock and the only ebike I could find early this summer. The Reign E loves steep, rough and big drops, the maestro suspension is awesome on the e bikes.


Thanks for the info on the battery. I live in NJ. Our highest point is only 1804 feet and a normal 16 - 20 mile ride gets me any where from 1500 to 2000 feet of climbing. I'm a Santa Cruz fan and like the Heckler but I've also had very good past experience with Giant and Maestro. We'll see. I am not in the immediate market but I always start shopping for my next bike soon after buying my current one. I have a feel technology will be making some big leaps in eBike's in the next few years. Be well.


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## Dr Gigi (Nov 3, 2016)

Find a small shop with a cool owner who doesn't mind taking cash. I was able to get a brand new Rise M10 for a few hundred bucks off sticker and no tax (10% savings here in the Bay Area). As a bonus, he threw in better tires with cushcore, larger brake rotors, an xt cassette (instead of slx), better saddle, and the upgraded Shimano steps display, all on the house.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

RBoardman said:


> Commencal used to have the best ebikes price wise in my opinion. I got the highest end SRAM build for $6300 OTD when I ordered it the second it was released. Now that same build is listed at $7600 on the website. Same bike, large price increase.


Agreed. I feel they are no longer what I used to love about them.


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## BigBull (Feb 4, 2004)

Dr Gigi said:


> Find a small shop with a cool owner who doesn't mind taking cash. I was able to get a brand new Rise M10 for a few hundred bucks off sticker and no tax (10% savings here in the Bay Area). As a bonus, he threw in better tires with cushcore, larger brake rotors, an xt cassette (instead of slx), better saddle, and the upgraded Shimano steps display, all on the house.


Would you mind sharing which ‘cool LBS’ in Bay Area? These upgrade sounds really great, I may pay him a visit if not too far.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

SCFord said:


> Honestly used market is probably the best way right now, new prices are pretty insane, used market is pretty flooded, definitely some good deals to be had. I’d narrow down the bike you want then look everyday for it used, sooner or later a good deal will pop up


This. 100%. The truly great deals are history following the covid outbreak and resultant supply chain interuptions. But if I were to go to Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace, I know I'll find some nice, lightly used Haibikes out there for a great price. Having owned my Haibike Full FatSix since early 2017, I know I'd be looking specifically for the Yamaha drive with the external battery. Checking the battery condition (battery output percentage and total charge cycles recorded) are easily found in the online Yamaha X94 repair manual. The Bosch drive systems on the Haibikes enjoy a very good parts supply for motor parts. I'm just partial to the Yamaha after over 18k miles on the odometer without a motor, battery or other drive component system failure. So that should put a kibosh to the idea running in this thread that you must buy brand new cause everything being sold on the aftermarket has a hidden failure ready to bite the potential new owner. 

One caveat: be aware of Shimano drives....new or used.


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## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Intense Tazer starts at $6200
YT Decoy starts at $5999
Rocky Mountain Altitude Coil 30 $5799
These are a few that Ive noticed recently. I have the Intense Tazer MX ebike that I love. My local motorcycle shop has one remaining marked down to $4900. These are all enduro bikes with 160mm of travel or more. The direct to consumer brands are about the best deals: Intense,YT,Canyon,or Commencal.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

For a mid-power bike the Trek Fuel EXe looks like a good deal compared to others like the Pivot Shuttle SL or Turbo Levo SL. And if you are a Level 3 NICA coach you can get a good discount, which makes it a great deal.

For a full-power bike, I would probably go with the Canyon Spectral: ON. With the NICA discount, the Trek Rail is close in price, and would have better local shop support.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

kevjob said:


> Battery removal is easy, t25 torx on side which bolts battery to frame then a thumb twist small nut under the downtube releases the battery cover and the battery comes out. The charger is fast, 3 hours to 90% from 10% and can e charged off the bike or on and comes with the dongle for both applications.
> 
> I still ride my Ripmo AF and love it but my knee does not like long climbs and mutiple days in a row. I live in Colorado front range and some of our climbs are brutal but the trails they gatekeep are worth the climbs, downhill bike only enduro style trails.
> 
> The Trance E+ is an alloy version and is pretty good, I went with Reign as I have steep rough enduro trails I love to ride and was in stock and the only ebike I could find early this summer. The Reign E loves steep, rough and big drops, the maestro suspension is awesome on the e bikes.


I got onto this tread saying that eBike technology was not quite "there" for me. Last night I read about the newest Pivot eBike that looks closer to what I want at a weight of 38 lbs. for the most expensive build and a bit over 8k for a perfectly acceptable (to me) STX/XT build that is close to what I have on my Tallboy. I'm not sure what the weight of the lower build is but guessing 40 lbs. I'd say technology only took two days to get where, or at least close, to where I want it to be.

That's why I look to the future for my answers.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Probably, I would roll the dice and try Bikes Direct, but I have a BBS02-equipped hardtail that has been perfect for seven years of off road fun.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

Rev Bubba said:


> I got onto this tread saying that eBike technology was not quite "there" for me. Last night I read about the newest Pivot eBike that looks closer to what I want at a weight of 38 lbs. for the most expensive build and a bit over 8k for a perfectly acceptable (to me) STX/XT build that is close to what I have on my Tallboy. I'm not sure what the weight of the lower build is but guessing 40 lbs. I'd say technology only took two days to get where, or at least close, to where I want it to be.
> 
> That's why I look to the future for my answers.


Yeah, that Pivot Shuttle SL looks sweet, but not what I would call a good value.


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## BigBull (Feb 4, 2004)

jabrabu said:


> For a mid-power bike the Trek Fuel EXe looks like a good deal compared to others like the Pivot Shuttle SL or Turbo Levo SL. And if you are a Level 3 NICA coach you can get a good discount, which makes it a great deal.


I am a value-driven buyer, always shop at discount store, buy used and discounted stuff over new product. After months of research comparing to other 'discount deals' bikes, Fuel Exe is my final pick for future-prove at least in the 'near future'. It might not seem like a bargain but consider a carbon frame with the best motor and display integration in current market, it's a great value from technology point of view.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

BigBull said:


> I am a value-driven buyer, always shop at discount store, buy used and discounted stuff over new product. After months of research comparing to other 'discount deals' bikes, Fuel Exe is my final pick for future-prove at least in the 'near future'. It might not seem like a bargain but consider a carbon frame with the best motor and display integration in current market, it's a great value from technology point of view.


It's also nice that the XT-level Fuel EXe has a complete XT drivetrain and brakes. Many other brands will have an SLX cassette and brakes on their "XT" builds. The 9.8 XT is also spec'd with carbon rims and carbon cranks. On most other brands you have to go up to the XTR/XX1 level builds to get those.


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## lhart (Feb 17, 2004)

Pretty hard to beat the Fezzari Signal Peak. I ride w/someone who's had one for the last 10 or so months, and it's been killer. It gets the snot ridden out of it...not one issue. It's the mid-level one, w/the EP8 motor.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

lhart said:


> Pretty hard to beat the Fezzari Signal Peak. I ride w/someone who's had one for the last 10 or so months, and it's been killer. It gets the snot ridden out of it...not one issue. It's the mid-level one, w/the EP8 motor.


The Comp build is under $4k! Might be only FS ebike under $4k. I'd size up one size though to get geo similar to my current bike though.

There's also the Polygon Bromo 7 $4.4k, but I think sold out everywhere








First Ride: Polygon Mt. Bromo N7 E-Bike - Video


We could have tested the EP-8-equipped Polygon Mt Bromo N8, but the $4,400 N7 has the design, tech and geo of an e-bike twice its price.




www.betamtb.com


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Find a used Specialized Levo. They are the only ebike Id buy used as they have a transferable warranty.


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## Art666 (Aug 4, 2018)

Used bike with Shimano, Brose or Bosch motors should be easy to repair if you have enough skill to pull out the motor. Brose replaced my motor no questions, they had 3 years warranty. I just had shimano motor replaced on my intense tazer. But I found several new motors steps e8000 for under 1k. 
BTW, I suspect we will see good deals after thxgiving. I didn't get that much spam about discounted bikes from local dealers in a few years.
I bought used bikes several times from theProscloset and had no issues.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Maybe the Levo SL still on sale at some places, before and after the recent Specialized sale. That said, the SL comp carbon on sale is still $6300 for low to mid level parts, a spindly Fox 34 and outdated geo. I just got a new Ripmo V2 carbon with Fox 38 Factory, JadeX coil and free carbon wheel upgrade for $4900 shipped to my door. Hard to beat so I'll keep going with human power for now.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Bikeventures said:


> The Comp build is under $4k! Might be only FS ebike under $4k. I'd size up one size though to get geo similar to my current bike though.
> 
> There's also the Polygon Bromo 7 $4.4k, but I think sold out everywhere
> 
> ...


The Fezzari Wire Peak appears to be $3899 on their website right now in the base build.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

mike_kelly said:


> The Fezzari Wire Peak appears to be $3899 on their website right now in the base build.


If they ever deliver. Fezzari likes to play the game of taking a deposit and holding it. They did that to me. Told me 4 weeks, then 2 more weeks, then 2 more weeks, and on it went until I cancelled my order and went and bought a bike that actually existed from somebody else. Never again. No bike, no sale.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

That is not unusual these days with supply chain issues. Manufacturers can not get the parts to finish their builds.


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## gohloum (3 mo ago)

_CJ said:


> If they ever deliver. Fezzari likes to play the game of taking a deposit and holding it. They did that to me. Told me 4 weeks, then 2 more weeks, then 2 more weeks, and on it went until I cancelled my order and went and bought a bike that actually existed from somebody else. Never again. No bike, no sale.


 Seriously... Non-existing and they played a holding deposit game? First off, they exist and I know plenty of riders who have one. Secondly, shipping and supply have been an issue since the 'rona. Fezzari along with just about every other company out there are dependent on supply availability from SRAM, Shimano, Fox, DT Swiss, etc., is in the same boat. Did it ever occur to you that it could actually be the supply chain issue? It seems a bit harsh to accuse a company of "playing a game" when in reality, they are just trying to run a business. It's unfortunate that people with your mindset, regardless of the industry will just spew off online about some "Tragic Injustice" some company has done to you as if they had a vendetta against you. This is unfortunate because you poison the well for other readers who are looking at reviews to try and get a good opinion about a product. Maybe a little more thorough communication with your situation to Fezzari (or any company for that matter) would be wise. There is certainly nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, they delayed my order because of parts availability". That would be entirely more accurate by your description, not to mention the complete false claim the Wire Peak doesn't exist. A little grace and communication goes a long way. Maybe someday your reputation will be online for your business and I bet you wouldn't want someone trashing it because of events out of your control like supply chain issues.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

:🍿:


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

gohloum said:


> Seriously... Non-existing and they played a holding deposit game? First off, they exist and I know plenty of riders who have one. Secondly, shipping and supply have been an issue since the 'rona. Fezzari along with just about every other company out there are dependent on supply availability from SRAM, Shimano, Fox, DT Swiss, etc., is in the same boat. Did it ever occur to you that it could actually be the supply chain issue? It seems a bit harsh to accuse a company of "playing a game" when in reality, they are just trying to run a business. It's unfortunate that people with your mindset, regardless of the industry will just spew off online about some "Tragic Injustice" some company has done to you as if they had a vendetta against you. This is unfortunate because you poison the well for other readers who are looking at reviews to try and get a good opinion about a product. Maybe a little more thorough communication with your situation to Fezzari (or any company for that matter) would be wise. There is certainly nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, they delayed my order because of parts availability". That would be entirely more accurate by your description, not to mention the complete false claim the Wire Peak doesn't exist. A little grace and communication goes a long way. Maybe someday your reputation will be online for your business and I bet you wouldn't want someone trashing it because of events out of your control like supply chain issues.


Fun fact, I owned a business manufacturing products for people for years. I might know a thing about supply chains and online reputations.

What these companies are doing (not just Fezzari) is propping up their business on product that doesn't exist....using deposit/pre-order money to cover overhead, make payroll, order parts, secure credit, etc. That's a poor business model which generally ends badly for both the company doing it, and the consumer. I refuse to participate in it, and I suggest everyone else do the same. If you want to sell widgets, build widgets and offer them for sale. You don't start taking deposits until you have enough money to place an order with your supplier, or worse....use that deposit money to fulfill orders on the highest profit bikes while leaving your entry level customers waiting, which happens a lot. If you want to have a waiting list for customers, that's fine, but charging for the privilege is a scam. Always has been, always will be.

imho


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## Jason_MTB (Nov 17, 2020)

I've purchased 3 Fezzari bikes. I didn't pay anything for any of them until after I received them... Just saying.


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## devguydavid (3 mo ago)

_CJ said:


> What these companies are doing (not just Fezzari) is propping up their business on product that doesn't exist.


I’m sure that’s true of some companies. Maybe that’s true of Fezzari, maybe not. Without knowing, we just don’t know and can only speculate. My “informed speculation” based on my experience tells me it’s not the case though, or at the very least that there isn’t anything nefarious going on here. I placed an order a couple of months ago for a Delano Peak and they reached out within a couple of days to let me know of a supply chain issue with the suspension. So they worked with me to come up with basically what amounted to a completely custom build so that I could get my bike sooner. I will admit the experience hasn’t been flawless (they switched the front/rear tires, but that’s an easy fix, although the burlier tire scratched the frame, so we need to have a chat about that). But I can’t complain about their communication and willingness to work with me. In fact I just ordered a King’s Peak…


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## devguydavid (3 mo ago)

Jason_MTB said:


> I've purchased 3 Fezzari bikes. I didn't pay anything for any of them until after I received them... Just saying.


This has been my experience with the two I’ve ordered as well. They put a pending charge on my card but it didn’t post until they shipped.

EDIT: My recent order was from the outlet, and it did post before they shipped it. Maybe that makes a difference?


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## BigBull (Feb 4, 2004)

mike_kelly said:


> Fezzari Wire Peak


$3,277 now L or XL size, that's a damn good value for legit components all around.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

kntr said:


> Find a used Specialized Levo. They are the only ebike Id buy used as they have a transferable warranty.


lol i'm on my 4th motor , the latest being the supposedly fixed version, it worked well for 1k miles. now it's starting the motor over run behavior which apparently isthe beginning of sprag clutch failure. I guess one man's garbage is another man's gold


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

natrat said:


> lol i'm on my 4th motor , the latest being the supposedly fixed version, it worked well for 1k miles. now it's starting the motor over run behavior which apparently isthe beginning of sprag clutch failure. I guess one man's garbage is another man's gold


At least they have a transferable warranty. If you buy another used bike you'd be buying new motors. I agree the motors aren't real reliable but specialized has an awesome warranty. I usually only keep my Levo for a year and resell and I haven't had any problems. I ride a lot and big mountain rides.


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## Dr Gigi (Nov 3, 2016)

That Fezzari is a damn good deal for that component group. But the geometry is seriously outdated and it might have the ugliest top tube ever made..


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Here’s one- Specialized Levo Expert. LN, 199miles. $5470 upgrades!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Dr Gigi said:


> That Fezzari is a damn good deal for that component group. But the geometry is seriously outdated and it might have the ugliest top tube ever made..


The geo looks good if you happen to fit on the XL, actually. 1230 is a very versatile WB length. That's the same WB length Richie Rude is smashing on the EWS. The angles and fit looks to keep the rider properly centered* between the wheels too.

On the smaller sizes, yea the WB looks very short, even with them trying to keep the CS short. While the angles work on the XL, seems like it would put the rider too close to the front tire with such shorter reach in the smaller sizes. Sucks to have to get your arse back to compensate for that. Can't exactly bring the rear wheel closer to restore a nice centered position. I doubt people will buy into size-specific HA and fork offset, as HA seems to be some sort of sacred cow, but a slacker HA and longer fork offset would kick the front wheel out some to restore fit to keep rider neutral between wheels.

Yea, the frame looks cheap, like it was cobbled together by whatever the factory had. No custom hydroforming. Just maybe piecing tubing that already had tooling made together. The price reflects that though.

* not literally centered, as 50/50 is not exactly good for off-road. 60% weight bias on rear wheel is a decent neutral point, IMO.


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## medicine lonewolf (May 4, 2004)

i heard ebikes catch on fire 

how often?


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

medicine lonewolf said:


> i heard ebikes catch on fire
> 
> how often?


I've seen no documented cases of an ebike from a major manufacturer catching fire. It's always homemade, or some cheap garbage bike bought off Amazon/Alibaba/ebay, and it's usually a case of overcharging or wired for too much current draw.


.


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## jw_1995 (3 mo ago)

medicine lonewolf said:


> i heard ebikes catch on fire
> 
> how often?



I appears anything with Lithium-Ion batteries is suspect. Lot's of youtube videos showing this. I will be charging my EM3ev battery pack outdoors, protected from the elements, in a galvanized trash can with several inches of sand in the bottom.

Having said that, I have seen a 2004 Toyota Prius go 240,000 miles before the battery pack was replaced in 2022. Note that it did not catch fire. FWIW.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Lithium ion batteries are always at risk of catching fire whether in a smartphone, mini drone, or anything else these days that use them. Lithium catches fire if exposed to air. So the "cells" are in a vacuum bag in the battery. If the batteries are abused or crashed and the battery torn open they can catch fire. So they always need to be treated with respect and charged correctly.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

There are competing lithium battery chemistries like Lithium-Sulfur, Lithium-Iron Phosphate (LFP/LiFePo4), and Lithium Titanate (LTO), that are very stable.

Chemistries including cobalt (NCA, LCO, NMC) have the traits that are in demand, like having higher storage capacity/density, being able to be charged 800 cycles while maintaining 70+% capacity, fast charging, high current discharge (more powerful), etc. They are the ones most likely to ignite from phsyical damage, overcharging, shorting, etc. LiPo is also known to ignite.

The safer chemistries are being used for stationary energy storage instead (LFP), because the extra weight will reduce the range if the battery juice needs to carry its own weight around. The extra volume/size is also an issue to portability. Li-Sulfur is in development, with researchers trying to improve to longevity in a way that's can be mass produced. Lithium-Air and other novel chemistries are also being considered.

In other words, it's unfair to just generalize lithium as being unsafe. Depending on what elements it's compounded with, it can be safe. As another example, mercury found in thermometers is far safer than mercury in other forms, like dimethyl mercury. Check where Lithium is on the periodic table and direct me to a material with lower mass to take its place.

Blame the need to pack something so small with as much easily accessible energy as possible, resulting in something flammable/explosive. You know what else is like this? Gasoline.


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