# Best Value Full Suspension Under $3,000.00



## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

Let me start off by telling a little bit about myself I’m in my mid 40’s and have been doing road riding since 2005 (2000 + miles per year). In 2009 I started doing Cyclocross because as you know it’s a real in kick in the pants and it helps keep me motivated to keep in shape for the road season. 

While doing the CX I started to hang out with the MB Guys and Gals and they are whole lot more fun than my fellow Roadies. I even joined their club, and don’t even own a MB just the CX rig. Well on New Years rainy day, I actually went out for a trail ride with them on a borrowed hard tail and had a great time. So now I’m looking to join the gang of Mountain Bikers and have my own machine. It will help me get riding in, on those cold foggy days that I can’t get the motivation to get my butt out of the house and ride the road for hours.

My first road bike was $700.00 and I outgrew that in a year, so thus I learned my lesson. I currently have a Specialized Roubaix with Sram drive train and for CX a Fuji Cross pro with entry level Shimano (my first road bike also has Shimano Tiagra/105). I am fond of the Sram shifting but don’t know if it makes a difference on a MB.

I’ve been looking at the Specialized Stumpjumper Elite with the brain and I also like the idea of the Sram 2x10 drive train. Don’t like triples on the road why would I like them on the dirt? I’m also looking at the Blur LT because one of the local bike shops is a big supporter of the MB club and has a good reputation among the riders in the club. However he doesn’t sell Specialized just the Santa Cruz and Giant lines.

My budget is $3000.00 out the door (incl CA 9% Tax).So that kind of puts the Blur LT out of reach. I can get the Stumpjumper Elite for that price. So I’m looking for some other bikes to investigate and as they say get the most bang for my buck.

My riding will consist mainly of trail riding.

Thanks in advance for all your advice.

Also not interested in building a bike, want to work with the local bike shops.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

If 120mm of travel is enough for you, I'd try to demo/ride a Camber and a Trance and see what you think. 

The Camber Pro has pretty much the same component spec as the Stumpy FSR Elite except for the rear shock and felt much more alive to me. While the SJ Elite could monster truck over just about anything I cared to throw at it, it felt way too bobby to me, not as connected to the trail, and ultimately not as efficient for climbing. 

I've only got to ride a Trance in a parking lot a couple of times, but I hear a lot a positive reviews on them.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Are you on a team?

IMO, all racers should join teams. The biggest reason, for me, is that instead of riding with people who go slow and take breaks, and trying to talk my alleged mountain biker friends into getting off their butts, I'm already in touch with a large group of fast people who ride regularly. A pretty significant side benefit is the deals on gear. It's not as good as insider pricing, usually, but at the pricepoint you're considering and with your desire for a bike that's ridable when you buy it, it's probably better than trying to find something on the internet, and it's nice to get deals on reputable brands. A lot of the build on my MTB was made possible by my team deal, as well as a few bits and pieces on my road and 'cross bikes and even my commuter.

The least expensive Blur LT is less expensive than the Stumpjumper Elite and nicely equipped. Giant's FS bikes are well-regarded; a friend of mine has one and likes it. If you're looking for something your team deal gets you, something that's not obvious is that you can order Salsa bikes from QBP, making almost every bike shop in the country a Salsa dealer. Their Spearfish fits inside your budget. It's a 29er and with shorter travel than the bikes you were looking at, but if you get the bug to try MTB racing, it'll be a little more efficient.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Helens has the Trek fuel ex8 at 2150.


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

Normally I wouldn't recommend used bikes to "beginners", b/c they usually can't spot problem areas. But you're not a beginner and familiar with bikes, so presumably that won't be an issue, so that $3,000 could go a LONG way if you're patient. I've been keeping an eye out for a decent deal on another ride (for no good reason) and ran across 2 locally where I live.

Let someone else pay the depreciation and tax...

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/bik/2223131149.html

http://trianglemtb.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=23347.0


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

id take a good look at the trance x.


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm a bit older than you and just picked up a Pivot Mach 5 that rocks. This bike has made my rides so much more fun and really makes me a better rider. I paid less than your budget too:thumbsup: I would ride one if you can


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## jpeters (Nov 19, 2010)

I would say a Trance or a Anthem just do a search here is a link to all anthem reviews bikerader seems to give reliable reviews. I would not go with any more than a trance suspension wise because of losing power on climbs. I would also have a look at a BMC speed fox I have one and my friend has a giant trance and the bmc climbs better than the trance. Not alot of people know about bmc but they have a great suspension and good build quality competitive cyclists sells them. BMC is a swiss based company with excellent build quality . With competitive cyclists I think you can configure the bike how ever you want so you can change the crank ext.

http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&s...s+bike+rader&bav=on.2,or.&fp=fb566e09302ebcf9


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## Itchiee (Sep 17, 2010)

Read the reviews of the Trek Fuel 8, it's a great bike and way under your budget.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

You can't go wrong with SRAM 7/9/X or Shimano shifting. Both are quite good. My first suggestion would be to try out some different manufacturers offerings to get an idea of fit/sizing and which ones work better for your build. I found my feet were too close to the front wheel on some as compared to others for example.

To get the most bang for you buck, buy a used 5k+ bike for 3k or less with no tax and very little depreciation. 

I've made two eBay purchases and have been quite happy with both. Craig's list and your local MTB club would also be good places to check.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

I'll second the 'buy used' vote, but will throw out a few other options. I have ridden off and on for many years but never with a good group that rides regularly or well. That changed last spring and I'm much luckier for it. So I replaced my old Trek hard tail with an '08 SC Superlight that I snagged of CL for $700. It's a great XC bike, but we ride more of a mix of XC and AM so I had the itch to upgrade. Having a budget it was back to CL with patience until an '09 Blur LT2 showed up for $2900. I ended up just buying the frame because he was moving to the Blur LTc and I moved all my Superlight parts over plus a new fork.

One of the guys I ride with just got a Yeti ASR5 and that is a sweet bike too. EOY closeout made the price quite right too.

The best advice anyone can give you is to try as many as you can while you wait for the right bike for you. Rent a bike from your LBS and while you are out with your group swap out with their rides too. Helps to be using compatible clipless pedals. My point is getting saddle time on different rides and asking for feedback from your friends. What works for them won't necessarily work for you and vice versa, but having their perspective is just that much more information in helping you assess the pros and cons of various rigs.

Fred


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## Buzkil (Aug 16, 2010)

dciandrew said:


> I've been looking at the Specialized Stumpjumper Elite with the brain.QUOTE]
> 
> I own this bike and love it, the brain is cool, but being 225lbs it doesn't always work as intended. When I really need to crank up a hill I still get a bit of bob. On trails I know, I can set the brain and foget it. On trails I don't know I find I have to do a bit of adjusting.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

Wow thanks for all the comments. When I get some time I'll look at each one more closely. As reguards to joining a team for racing, so far I'm really not into the racing scene. I do CX just becuase its a lot of fun.

So far I've only been able to test two stumpjumpers a large without the brain and a medium the brain. At just under 6' I found the medium felt just too small. The large felt just right, the problem is none of the LBS have the 2011 SJ in stock with the brain in my size. Its also not very telling ridng in the parking lot.

At the last CX race I got to test a Cannondale 29er and even after just coming of my CX bike right after the race, it just felt too big for me so I think I'll stick to the 26"

On a side note before I got into biking I had a Costco Special (ie Mongoose full supension) and road it on my first ever CX race. Trust me at 46 pounds and no lock out on the supension it kicked my butt. Never rode it again and sold it at a garage sale. So yes I know about peddle bob, it was just awful trying to go up the hills, I must have looked funny just bouncing the whole time. The funny thing to me was I thought I was in shape from all the road riding I did. I couldn't have been more wrong, but two years later and a OK CX bike and some actual CX training it can still kick my butt, but at least I don't get lapped anymore.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

GotoDengo said:


> Normally I wouldn't recommend used bikes to "beginners", b/c they usually can't spot problem areas. But you're not a beginner and familiar with bikes, so presumably that won't be an issue, so that $3,000 could go a LONG way if you're patient. I've been keeping an eye out for a decent deal on another ride (for no good reason) and ran across 2 locally where I live.
> 
> Let someone else pay the depreciation and tax...
> 
> ...


$2000.00 for a Blur LT that is a good deal. The frame alone is $1900.00 new.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Northern California is a good area for hardtails, at least the parts I know. However, most full-suspension bikes above the grade of a Costco Mongoose will have significantly less pedal bob and FS rigs do seem to get new riders keeping up with group rides faster, which is not a bad thing.

Try to hop on an XL before committing to the SJ in large. If it's too big, that's good information, and if it's not too big, you just avoided an expensive mistake.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Try to hop on an XL before committing to the SJ in large. If it's too big, that's good information, and if it's not too big, you just avoided an expensive mistake.


Thanks for the tip didn't even think about trying the XL. It makes sense to check that out too won't cost anything to try.


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## ianblaster (May 28, 2010)

+1 on the Fuel EX8.
+1 on buying used.

I patiently watched Craigslist in my area with cash in hand and picked up a 2010 Fuel EX8 for $1500. What made the deal better is he had all reciepts with it and with upgrades had $2700 invested. He needed money to fix his car. Moral of the story is that if you have the cash, patients, time, and knowledge of what red flags to look for before buying, used can save you tons of money. Then you can redirect the remainder of your budget to something else like new gear, upgrades, ect.


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

dciandrew said:


> $2000.00 for a Blur LT that is a good deal. The frame alone is $1900.00 new.


Yeah, I thought about contacting him to take a look, but 150mm is a little too much for the stuff around here. I'd really like an older talas... 120 for everyday use, 140 for the occasional trip to Shenandoahs to visit family, and 100 for the hypothetical race or two I might enter.


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## Milkman311 (Aug 30, 2010)

Another +1 for Trek Fuel EX 8. 

Good luck finding a used one. Warranty is for original owner only. Finding a 2010 still at retailer would be a wet dream.


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## veloduffer (Jan 12, 2011)

Another vote for the Fuel EX 8 - great combination of parts for the money. Rides well over all sorts of terrain. And well within your budget.


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## PnkCrnk (Nov 25, 2010)

Giant Trance X2 MSRP is $2,800.00, the X3 is $2,200.00. And you can probably get them for less than MSRP. Ride one. See if you like it.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

I got slightly over 12% off MSRP on my Camber Pro ordered in early December. 

Same shop was willing to go $1950 on a 2010 Trance X2 but wouldn't let me demo it on the trails.

Same story w/ the Fuel EX8 (no demos on any Trek or GF around here), although it didn't seem to fit me as well as the Camber or the Trance (19.5 had me all hunched up and bent over and 21.5 felt way stretched out) so I wasn't really all that interested. I was a little bummed as they had a pretty killer deal on a '10 Rumblefish II that felt darn pretty good in the parking lot, but I was resolved to actually ride a bike on the trails before dropping $2K+ on it.


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## KyleH (Oct 27, 2010)

2x10 is awesomesauce. Don't let anyone tell you differently. 

Kinda pricey when paying full price though.

I don't know what is local, but we sell felt, and the virtue sport fs is right at 2500...You could sell the components and put the extra money towards 2x10 x7-x9

I would say spend a little extra on the x9. It's snazzy stuff for the price. And the 2x10 is all lighter than 3x9.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

Besides Specialized are any other manufactures using the 2x10 as standard equipment?


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

So I guess I have to thank the OP :thumbsup: (or curse you for lightening my wallet :madman: ). If not for this post, I probably wouldn't have been on the buy/sell forums, and would have cursed myself for missing this. My new (used) ride, just picked it up.


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## tshulthise (Apr 23, 2010)

dciandrew said:


> Besides Specialized are any other manufactures using the 2x10 as standard equipment?


Fezzari is now using 2x10 on their 2011 AM models. The 2010 models have 3x9. The 2011 Nebo is a bit over your price range. The Cascade Peak is under. I'm not sure if they have any 2010 models left over for sale or not. They would be well under $3k.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I think racers often unload their high end race bikes off for kind of cheap with mostly new parts. They often swap their own parts and plop the stock ones on the frame they're getting rid of. You can see Superfly 100s going for as low as 3k.


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## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

dciandrew said:


> Besides Specialized are any other manufactures using the 2x10 as standard equipment?


 Yes, GT is using it on their Sensor and Force.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

tshulthise said:


> Fezzari is now using 2x10 on their 2011 AM models. The 2010 models have 3x9. The 2011 Nebo is a bit over your price range. The Cascade Peak is under. I'm not sure if they have any 2010 models left over for sale or not. They would be well under $3k.


What can you tell me about these bikes they have really good prices. Their Cascade outfittet with x9 and xo is $2500.00


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

dciandrew said:


> What can you tell me about these bikes they have really good prices. Their Cascade outfittet with x9 and xo is $2500.00


I just purchased a 2011 Cascade the other week.

This past weekend I had the opportunity to take it on some real trails to test it and it performed great. It surpassed all of my expectations as well as the expectations of others I was riding with.

Is there anything specific you were wanting to know?


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

The title of the thread is best value for under $3000.00 and it looks like the Cascade may be just that. Been reading all around since my last post, but not a lot of information on their bikes. Just a lot of bickering about how the posters are company boys.

I really like the idea about 2x10 from Sram and looking at the specs the bikes are outfitted very well for the price. Did they get the fit right and and how is peddle bob and hill climbing?


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

lol...I am NOT a company boy. Nor am I one to drink the kool aid everyone passes out.

I had been looking for a long travel XC bike since I went to Outerbike last year and rode some super bikes (Santa Cruz Blur LT, Turner 5 Spot, Trek Fuel EX9.8 to name a few).

When I got back home, I was not happy with my current ride, a Trek Fuel 90 3 inch xc bike. It had been great when I lived in Louisiana, but out here in the west, it just left me feeling beat up and biking wasn't as much fun. So, I tried everything to lighten up the bike and make it a bit more plush like the bikes I had ridden at Outerbike. No such luck. No matter how you cut it, my Fuel just wasn't a 5 inch travel bike.

So, I started looking around and riding everything I could get my hands on. I couldn't justify the prices of some of the brands I was looking at (Pivot, Santa Cruz, Ellsworth, etc). And the bikes in the price range I wanted to spend didn't have the feel or the compenents I wanted. In the end, I had pretty much settled on the Trek Fuel EX8, although it didn't really ever convince me as the bike I was looking for.

I had read someone on here mention Fezzari, so figured I'd go give them a look...if anything for a laugh.

After weeks of researching and deliberating and comparing, I finally decided I'd give it a try. Worst of it, I could always return it after a month of trying it out.

The 2x10 Sram is awesome! I had ridden the 2x10 Sram stuff at Outerbike and it sold me almost immediately. It was on the wish list for the new bike...even if it had to come a little bit afterwards if the new bike wasn't equipped, it was definitely going to be something I was going to install.

Fit? Yeah, it's a very comfortable riding position. It fits me like the Blur fit me. And the guys at Fezzari had dialed in the suspension pretty good too. Of course there will be some tweaks for riding style and preference, but it's pretty close.

Pedal bob? It's no different than my Fuel, the Fuel EX9.8, the Blur and a little bit better than the Turner. I've put the Pro Pedal on, but there's no need in my opinion. When I tested the Blur, the Santa Cruz guys were telling me that it's not something you need, but go ahead and try it. It was the same for the Blur as it is for the Cascade...it's there, but not really needed.

Hill climbing? It's fine. If I had stronger legs, it would have climbed up a brick wall. It never lost traction on any of the steep climbs. I don't know if that's attributable to tires, tubless system, the frame design, my riding style, or maybe a combination of all of those factors. I can tell you that going uphill is easier on this bike than my Fuel or the Blur. I am extremely surprised at how light the bike feels yet is not flexy at all. I've had a Haro Werks XLS (Santa Cruz Superlight design) that was like a wet noodle. Not the Cascade. Light and stiff, but a plush ride all at the same time.

I'm not trying to push the brand/bike on anyone, but just trying to give an honest opinion of what I like about the bike. I, like you, couldn't find any substantial information on the brand and hopefully this will provide a little insight for someone.


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## PnkCrnk (Nov 25, 2010)

All 2011 Trance Xs, except the X4, are 3x10. You can make it 2x10 by removing the biggest ring and replacing it with a light bashguard.


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

You can go that route of taking off the big chainring and replacing with a bashguard on a 3 chainring crank, but that isn't comparable to an actual 2 chainring crank.

The gearing is completely different on the 2x cranks than on the 3x cranks. Hence, the need for a differently geared cassette as opposed to a cassette used with a 3x crank.

The cranks are different as well (BCD).

All of the drivetrain is specifically set up to work together and it's not something you can replicate with 3x stuff.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

Thanks for the review will-lee. I'll be giving this bike a very hard look, its well within my budget and no CA tax (they get enough of my money).

So now that you've said the good what is the bad and the ugly?


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

The bad and the ugly?

Well, I don't have anything honestly.

The guys at Fezzari (I dealt with Tyler mainly) were patient and understanding about my reservations. They answered all of my questions and never tried to dog another brand or overly hype up theirs. It didn't feel like I was buying a used car. No pressure.

The bike came quickly. Ordered on a Thursday, they shipped it out on Friday, I had it on Tuesday. They even emailed me a pic of MY bike before they packed it.

I had the wheelset upgraded to Mavic Crosstrails, which they put in Stan's sealant before it shipped. They aired up the tires and aired up the shocks.

It was packed well and nothing was damaged.

Tyler was gonna throw in a water bottle, but since the frame (medium) doesn't have water holder bosses, he threw in a t-shirt instead.

It was simple to put together, but I can turn a wrench. I worked in a shop for a while and have done all of my own mech work for years. But even still, it's not rocket science to put it together.

They included ALL of the bits and pieces that would go with all of the miscellaneous parts (mavic valve core remover for the tubeless setup, QR axle converter since fork is 15mm QR, etc). It also came with flat pedals so I could test it out immediately (since I was at work and didn't have pedals with me).

Honestly, I don't have any ugly to air about the bike or the ordering experience. If I did, I would and I would be sending it back pronto. But, there has been nothing unsatisfactory about the purchase.


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## woodytwin (Mar 7, 2011)

*considering ALL brands...*

It's funny that what I thought was the best is completely overlooked here. Just when I think that I know everything, I find out that I'm 5 cans short of a 6 pack. 
What I mean is that, I thought that the Fuji Reveal was "all that and a bag of chips". Granted, it "stickers" for something like $4300 but, I believe that it can be had for $3K To my surprise, very few riders seem to recognize Fuji. Even the most seasoned riders haven't had a chance to ride ALL brands... right? I admit that I (sort of) had my heart set on a large 2011 Fuji Reveal 1.0. It felt super comfy under my 6'1" 225lbs, frame. I'm very top heavy (body builder) so the locking shock was a God-sent for me. Unfortunately, I haven't taken it on a trail to see if the new rear suspension would handle the beating that I will likely give it - not to mention peddle bob... The specs seem impressive in stock form so, why is it that it gets overlooked? Note: I rode the 2010 model - not the updated 2011.
I'm no expert (don't tell my wife that I said that) on bikes. That's why I'm here. I just wish that there weren't so many different opinions. Can't you guys agree on anything!? I thought that there would be one or two different brands/models that would just stand out amongst the others. You guys don't make it easy!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

If you want to go that route, the Mongoose Teocali Super closeouts from prior year models are killer deals. Under 2k for a well spec'ed trail machine, complete with adj seat dropper post.

Consider what Chris Akrigg does on it, if you question its performance. Most bikes in this range are solid. He can do the same on a Blur LT2 or a Giant Trance, but the question is if any are better. I don't think there's too much difference to justify difference in price.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one and everyones but your own stinks... 

In the spirit of the above statement, I think unless you have the opportunity to ride each candidate for yourself, form your own opinion and compare them for your self, it's always going to be a bit of a crap shoot.

It's useful to compare component and geometry specs on paper and maybe get some first hand info from others who have ridden a bike you're considering, but IMHO there's some degree of dice rolling going on when you plunk down cash for a bike you haven't had the opportunity to put through its paces for your self.

Just my smelly .02 though. :thumbsup:


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

All good points.

I didn't even think to look at what Fuji has in their line up.

I would have liked to have ridden a Felt Compulsion.

There are SO many bikes/brands like was said, that's it's impossible to ride them all.

I still don't think you can beat the price of the Fezzari. The specs are just too good at that price, IMO.

Hope that doesn't stink ;-)


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

Sid Nitzerglobin said:


> Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one and everyones but your own stinks...
> 
> In the spirit of the above statement, I think unless you have the opportunity to ride each candidate for yourself, form your own opinion and compare them for your self, it's always going to be a bit of a crap shoot.
> 
> ...


If all the componets are the same doesn't it just come down the frame? How it fits you and how it feels on the trails your going to ride it on? Fox is Fox and Sram is Sram and you can change tires and rims easly.

As a weekend warrior I'm figuring that whatever the characteristics of a particular frame are I'll get use to. I'm not interested in being the fastest or the best, just having the most fun.

I know quality is very important that's why "the most bang for the buck" comment. I want a good quality comfortable bike (read not too heavy or too much wasted effort) that will last and that will make me want to get on the trails and ride with my friends.

I'm sure all the bikes in this thread meet that, now it comes as it always does how much $$ do I have.

You guys have been great in helping out a newbie in the world of off road riding


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

I think you want what most of us want...a bike that makes it fun to get out and ride.

Good luck and let us know what you end up getting and how you like it.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

dciandrew said:


> If all the componets are the same doesn't it just come down the frame? How it fits you and how it feels on the trails your going to ride it on? Fox is Fox and Sram is Sram and you can change tires and rims easly.
> 
> As a weekend warrior I'm figuring that whatever the characteristics of a particular frame are I'll get use to. I'm not interested in being the fastest or the best, just having the most fun.
> 
> ...


Yeah, for the most part components are components. Many of the bigger manufacturers might have some mods made to standard retail specs and stock tuning though. The rear suspension design of the frame plays a pretty big role in efficiency and handling dynamics as well. What riding the bikes as assembled gives you is a direct impression of the sum of all the parts and how that suits your riding in addition to how the geometry works for you. The map is not always the territory.

Being a weekend (and occasional weekday when work and weather don't get in the way) warrior myself, I'm not all that concerned about raw performance either. For me it's all about what feels the best, both from a comfort and fun perspective.

I'd agree that pretty much any bike in the price range you're looking at is going to be pretty good, the focus for me would be more on which works best for me. Buying online or locally w/o a demo works out well for plenty of people, I'm just not all that comfortable w/ it myself, but then I'm kind of compulsive about big purchases and prone to buyer's remorse if I don't feel I've done my due diligence.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Like you say, components are components. Frames are frames as well. Not all frames are $1000+. Not sure whose "post above" you were referring to, but even if you do consider the Mongoose Teocali Super and end up not liking the frame, all the parts are very good. There's deals out there on frames like the Titus El Guapo for $700, KHS (looked like a standard Horst Link) $500, Blur LT2 $1000, and so on (all inc. rear shock).

Taking all the parts off a frame and putting them on another gives you a good chance to make sure it's done correctly with grease/thread loc/anti seize, proper torque, etc.

Other options:

Here's a decent deal on a Rocky Mountain Carbon FS, but has CA tax: http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI270B00-Rocky+Mountain+Altitude+70+Rsl+Bike+10.aspx

Saw this one posted by someone else and thought it was a good deal, GT Force Carbon: http://www.giantnerd.com/2010-gt-gt-force-carbon-expert-mountain-bike-all-mountain.html


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## PnkCrnk (Nov 25, 2010)

For me, the most important consideration when buying a full suspension bike is the suspension design because you can change almost everything else on the bike but not that.

Research all the suspension systems that are out there - the good and the bad of each one, ride the bikes, see how they feel and choose the suspension system you like best. You'll then be able to narrow down your bike choices to only the ones that have that suspension system.


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

I'm not sure that narrowing down a buying decision based on the suspension design is very adequate.

There isn't one suspension design that is better than any other. Each have their pros and cons. And implentation of the design is far more important than just the design itself. For example, a well designed four bar can outperform a single pivot or DW link if executed properly.

I found these links to be very helpful:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/buyers-guide-to-mountain-bike-suspension-part-1-28367

and part 2

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/buyers-guide-to-mountain-bike-suspension-part-2-28438

I also did some research on other topics like brake jack, and the rear wheel path, blah blah blah...

It was all informative, but in the end, it's like shoes...what feels comfortable to you. Sure, there are better bikes than others, but once you get above a certain pricepoint, they are all very well executed designs, but each has their own feel and characteristics. And what might feel awesome to me, might feel like a rolling turd to you.

And just like shoes, you can't try on every single brand or model. And sometimes you simply pick a shoe because you think they're pretty.

I know it sucks from all the information overload and choices/options that are out there, but ride what you can, gather a few opinions that seem to be consistent, examine prices, compare specs, and pick the prettiest one. ;-)


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

I had previously read these, and thats one of the things I looked at on the Fezzari. What I found intresting is what bikeradar says about the "Standard four bar". 

"Specialized own the patent on the Horst Link, but many brands pay for the licence to use it."

From that aspect it has a tried and true design.


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

Cool!

The Horst is a four bar that has the rear pivot in front of and lower than the rear axle. And any bike that uses the design pays Specialized and will have S near the link to give credit to the horst link (like Titus).

Most other four bars (aka faux bar) have the rear pivot above the rear axle.

In real terms, this is about a 3mm difference in wheel path, where the horst rear wheel will travel slightly more vertical by 3mm in comparison to other four bars where the rear wheel follows the arc of the main pivot (like a single pivot).

The Fezzari has the same suspension design as Konas, Felts, Ventanas...and these are held in high regard in terms of their suspension performance...not junk just because they are a "faux" bar...which incidentally, was a marketing tactic from Specialized to distance itself from the basic design and highlight the Horst Link.

If you are really interested in the Fezzari, I can tell you what I found out.

There are basically 2 factories that churn out bikes. One in China (Giant) and one in Taiwan from a company called Merida. Merida produces Specialized and many many other brands...I think the Giant factory is where Trek and several other brands are produced.

Anyway, a few years ago, Merida decided to market their own brand of bikes since they were already producing so many for other companies (btw, Merida own 19% of Specialized). The Meridas are sold mainly in Europe and Australia. I believe the Fezzari is made in the Merida factory (the similarities are obvious...just look up the Merida bikes and note the dropouts and rocker link and these pieces are stamped out by the bagillions...also, the Merida bikes are well reviewed also). Fezzari sends their design specs to Merida (just like Specialized and everyone else does) and the factory churns it out.

So, after finding all this out, I felt much better about getting the Fezzari.

I'm still not saying that the Fezzari is the end all be all of mountain bikes. I'm not telling everyone at the top of my lungs to get one.

I'm just saying that just because they are a brand that is not well known or is a buy direct that they should be written off. Some people may have never heard of Pivot bikes, Ibis, Transition, Yeti or Ventana.

I wish I could let anyone ride my bike to see for themselves if they like it or not. I know that for me, it's a good fit and the components and price was a bonus.

And I can remind you that if you get it and you don't like it, then just return it. Try that with a Trek or Specialized or Giant.

P.S.-Don't let Brake Jack talk get under your skin either. It's more a bunch of hype. What's gonna cause you to lose rear traction is the shifting of your weight more than any suspension design.
http://www.bicycling.com/mountainbikecom/featured-stories/jacks-not-here-man


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## DesertCrawler (Sep 28, 2010)

dciandrew said:


> Let me start off by telling a little bit about myself I'm in my mid 40's and have been doing road riding since 2005 (2000 + miles per year). In 2009 I started doing Cyclocross because as you know it's a real in kick in the pants and it helps keep me motivated to keep in shape for the road season.
> 
> While doing the CX I started to hang out with the MB Guys and Gals and they are whole lot more fun than my fellow Roadies. I even joined their club, and don't even own a MB just the CX rig. Well on New Years rainy day, I actually went out for a trail ride with them on a borrowed hard tail and had a great time. So now I'm looking to join the gang of Mountain Bikers and have my own machine. It will help me get riding in, on those cold foggy days that I can't get the motivation to get my butt out of the house and ride the road for hours.
> 
> ...


You can pick up 2009 and 2010 Marin models that have excellent specs for 2/3 of your stated budget as they are being blown out to make room for 2011 models and beyond. These are often overlooked machines, and they easily compete with many boutique brands in terms of design, features and specifications.

The 2009 Mount Vision gives you an excellent FS XC platform with 4-5" of travel so it can do a lot more than pure XC might suggest. Check out the 5.7 for oustanding bang for the buck. Even the 5.6 is well spec'd.

2010 Attack Trail or 2009 Wolf Ridge (same machine essentially) give you closer to 6" of travel and geometry closer to what is expected in more of an AM package. The Attack Trail 6.8, for example, has very nice parts and are available on the street for <$2K. Full retail is much more of course.

Definitely worth a look. There's a reason these bikes have won several shootouts over the years.


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## Sarguy (Sep 25, 2010)

dciandrew said:


> My riding will consist mainly of trail riding.
> 
> Thanks in advance for all your advice.
> 
> Also not interested in building a bike, want to work with the local bike shops.


Best value under $3K? My new Rumblefish (29r) on it's way.  Oh, and I'm older than you. I looked for a plush ride. These bones aren't getting any softer.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Horst link (pivot point on chainstay, ahead of the drop outs) is an US patent, so anyone overseas can sell their Horst link bikes anywhere but in the US, without paying to license the patent. It's a good fully active system, but maybe too active for some, hence why Specialized developing brain tech. Seems rather high tech to use inertia based valving, but it just doesn't work as magically as you'd think. I hate fussing with stuff, so I avoid it.

I'm a huge fan of Trek ABP. It 1-ups the Horst link design in numerous ways, in my opinion. The way they implemented it on the Superfly 100 is great. Feels way better than all they Horst and faux bar I've tried. The way the SF100 is setup, it feels sort of like a Yeti 575 in capability, but is still very efficient for endurance riding because of the shock valving. Still bobs out of the saddle even with pro pedal on (at #3 setting). Actually feels nicer with pro pedal off, since I don't notice the springing as much (a smoother bob vs a sharp one).

I'm not a fan of some dual short links like VPP, since they have pivot point bearing maintenance issues and have weird pedal feedback. I don't like the anti-squat that some bill as extra traction, since it pushes the tire into the ground with more force when pedaling. To me, that's just energy loss and bobbing. As long as the tires are on the ground, I can shift more of my body weight onto them for more force. I'm also annoyed that people all think that similar systems ride like a DW-Link design. I can't deny that they ride well, but it just sounds like an extra annoyance to take care of the pivots.

Single pivots and unified rear triangles (URT) are getting more advanced now that bike designers are fine tuning shock rate and leverage by added linkages between the swingarm and shock. Something like the Santa Cruz Superlight is in the stone age compared to something with the extra link such as the Nickel and Butcher, Commencal Meta Supreme, Rocky Mtn Flatline, etc. URTs such as Mongoose's Teocali and GT Force and Fury are also great. It's the only suspension that offers true hardtail feel pedaling out of the saddle. With the extra links, they've come a long way since the days of Schwinn Homegrown suspension and Ibis Bow Ti.

will-lee wonka said it best. Each design has its pros and cons. It's better to have a well implemented design than to settle with a design name. You're just falling for marketing. I will admit that DW Link (and not similar looking copies) does interest me. I've yet to ride one though. Wish they had an Ibis Mojo HD in my size when I saw them at a demo event.

will-lee wonka seems to know more about suspension design and marketing than anyone else in this thread and everything I read from him, I find I'm in agreement with.

I will say as a final word that I'm still going to be suspicious of any design that looks like another and will need to confirm with actual riding. I'm not going to go by most reviews either, since it seems some reviewers just spew out jargon and reiterate things that the manufacturers say about there features. Most of the review explains dumb jargon and names of features just as overdrive BB than actual comparison testing. They're just looking to use fancy lines such as, power transfer from pedals to wheels is explosively instant granting you the feeling that you magically gained Lance Armstrong's legs. Most of the hype about the Superfly 100, I found was was major hype after I put it through some major hours. It's still a great bike, its just not that significantly better than other bikes in its league in all aspects. Maybe some, like its ability to go fast on descents and roughs and corners, but it doesn't pedal as dreamy as they'd like you to believe. Nor is it as agile as a 26" bike... maybe they mean it rides like a 26er with similar geo in a general sense just with 29er wheels.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Varaxis said:


> Single pivots and unified rear triangles (URT) are getting more advanced now that bike designers are fine tuning shock rate and leverage by added linkages between the swingarm and shock. Something like the Santa Cruz Superlight is in the stone age compared to something with the extra link such as the Nickel and Butcher, Commencal Meta Supreme, Rocky Mtn Flatline, etc. URTs such as Mongoose's Teocali and GT Force and Fury are also great. It's the only suspension that offers true hardtail feel pedaling out of the saddle. With the extra links, they've come a long way since the days of Schwinn Homegrown suspension and Ibis Bow Ti.


I agree GT is a great climber.

Our riding trends and habit has changed over the year, I guess. URT get a lot of bad rep because how it ride firm. Don't forget homegrown wanted URT that pedal like hardtail, so it' linkage is design to yield that kind of ride, it's not the URT it's how the maker wanted to bike to ride. Plus the trend then is short travel in the front and long travel rear for example Klein Mantra 80mm front/150mm rear, similar to Ibis Szabo geo as well. It makes for good comfortable climbing but a bit sketchy descend. I'm building my Szabo up SS and planing to use 140mm fork. URT can be design to behave just like the current trend bike, check out the Castellano Zorro.

If you want a bike that climb well better than hardtail check out Maverick Monolink, 3-pivot design is awesome, my favorite bike is the ML8 with Hammerschmidt 6.5" travel 30lbs that can climb like an XC bike, it climb better than a 26lbs hardtail.

Another favorite would be the Gary Fisher roscoe, GF put a lot of techs in one basket and it shows. If you can find one on sale I'd grab it.


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## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

dciandrew said:


> Thanks for the review will-lee. I'll be giving this bike a very hard look, its well within my budget and no CA tax (they get enough of my money).


 They also have a model for 1,800.00 that's spec'd well enough to be an excellent contender. Don't sweat the 2X10 gearing. It brings nothing to the table when compared to 3X9. Well,It actually brings LESS to the table. And it's very easy to change a 3X9 or 10 to a 2X9 or 10. Don't be fooled by false advertising.


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

bigbeck said:


> They also have a model for 1,800.00 that's spec'd well enough to be an excellent contender. Don't sweat the 2X10 gearing. It brings nothing to the table when compared to 3X9. Well,It actually brings LESS to the table. And it's very easy to change a 3X9 or 10 to a 2X9 or 10. Don't be fooled by false advertising.


How do you convert a 3x drivetrain to a 2x drivetrain?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm asking because I wanna know..for real.

If you simply remove the big chainring and put in a bashguard and adjust the limit screw of your front derrailleur, that doesn't solve the chainline issue (i.e.-you will be crosschaining from your little chainring up front to your little one in the back).

Also, how do you get the relative gearing ratios? What sizes chainrings would you need to change to up front? or conversly, what cassette range would you have to change in the back?

Is there a site that details how to go about this?

I know several of my friends want to try it out and none of us have been able to find any detail information about how to go about itso that it truly does mimic the 2x drivetrains.

Thanks!


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## bigbeck (Feb 15, 2004)

will-lee wonka said:


> How do you convert a 3x drivetrain to a 2x drivetrain?
> 
> .


 Just remove the big ring. If you elect not to use a bash guard,you will need shorter chainring bolts.

The amount of cross chaining you get doesn't change by removing the big ring. The amount of cross chaining you get with a 2 X10 system may be a little less but it's nothing to be concerned about. Just stay out of the gears that cause severe chain angles.

If you want eliminate all possibility of cross chaining, the only way to do it is by going SS. For minimal cross chaining, use 1X9. More chainrings = more crosschaining - unless you learn how to shift.

Personally, I've been riding little ring front - little cog rear for many years with no ill effects. I ride 3-4 times per week @ around 6 to 10 miles each ride in very technical terrain. It takes a little over 2 hours to do 10 miles. Probably 90% of the time I'm in my 24T granny ring. I also replace the chain,cassette and granny ring every season to reduce the possibility of shifting problems. Of course there's always that pesky little rock that whacks my derailleur and bends the hanger a few times per year.


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## TX_Shifter (Aug 14, 2007)

Giant Trance x3. For $3k, I love this bike!! I rode a stumpjumper elite and it was decent, but I think it will be hard to beat the Trance at this price point. Good luck.


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## theonlyway (Jun 25, 2009)

You can get a trek remedy 8 for under 3k if you ask the shop to price match. There is a bike shop in FL who is selling them under 3.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

So today was the day just ordered my Fezzari Casscade Peak:thumbsup: . Upgraded to the Talas up front. So it won't be that much longer and I'll be able to get rid of that wanabe status.:blush:


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

There are closeout deals going on on 2010 models. I met someone on the trail that said they got their Giant Reign X1 for only $2500. 2009 models are even cheaper, at least looking at them online (they have the heavier stabbed downtube design though).


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

Varaxis said:


> There are closeout deals going on on 2010 models. I met someone on the trail that said they got their Giant Reign X1 for only $2500. 2009 models are even cheaper, at least looking at them online (they have the heavier stabbed downtube design though).


I so wanted to have Sram 2x10 and Fezzari was so much of a better deal than anyone else. My LBS had Felts that they could build with the X7 group that would have cost as same as the Fezzari and they couldn't touch it with the Santa Cruz line. Being my first MTB I wanted to have great componets from the start and didn't want to worry about upgrades later. By not having done but one true MTB ride I'm pretty sure that what ever flaws this frame "may" have that I don't have enough experiance to know the difference.


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## kwrides (Oct 12, 2010)

Congrats! 
Post some pics of it dirty. Every fezzari post just shows the standard website pics.


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## Cobra8d (Aug 3, 2010)

*Mongoose Teocali Super*

2009 Mongoose Teocali Super $1,899.99 









https://www.downcycles.com/store/2009-mongoose-teocali-super-p-1024.html

2011 Mongoose Teocali Super $2,963.99








https://www.mybiketinley.com/2011-Mongoose-Teocali-Super-Mountain-Bike_p_15879.html

I have the 2009 model, great bike for the price.


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

I prefer the looks of the 2009 model, too. :thumbsup:


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

Wow. Really? $3,000.00? So called noob. Fezzari. FEZZARI?!?!?!?! ROFL! Let me welcome you (as an ACTUAL noob) to the noob forum by saying GTFO of the "noob" forum! There is so much BS in this thread it's sad, and all of you so called "experts" fell for it hook, line, and sinker. First of all, the very fact that anyone named a bike a "Fezzari" and any of you bought it is just hilarious. I mean really, it's F'in HILarious! It's a MTB, not an expensive, beautiful Italian exotic guaranteed to get you laid like that car with the really similar name. Fezzari?! Hahahahaha. This is TOO much!

Even better? Someone titling a thread "Best value FS bike under $3,000". HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! NO "noob" should ever spend $3,000.00 on ANY bike. EVER! Even an awesome sounding FEZZARI! Fezzari. It's Italian for "Motobecane, only $600.00 more, and Italian sounding.":yesnod: 

So just to reiterate. If you've ridden 2,000 miles on a bike? GTFO out the noob forum! You sir, are NOT a noob. $3,000 on a bike? Once again, NOT a noob! Regardless, for the love of all that's good, do NOT buy anything named a "Fezzari." I'm serious with this. There are bike builders like Yeti and Moots who are building beautiful, strong, American made works of art MTB's and not sounding like poseurs while doing it. As a noob even I know this. Seriously. Why does this forum even have a "beginner's" forum if mutual masturbation threads like these are allowed?


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

kbohip said:


> Wow. Really? $3,000.00? So called noob. Fezzari. FEZZARI?!?!?!?! ROFL! Let me welcome you (as an ACTUAL noob) to the noob forum by saying GTFO of the "noob" forum! There is so much BS in this thread it's sad, and all of you so called "experts" fell for it hook, line, and sinker. First of all, the very fact that anyone named a bike a "Fezzari" and any of you bought it is just hilarious. I mean really, it's F'in HILarious! It's a MTB, not an expensive, beautiful Italian exotic guaranteed to get you laid like that car with the really similar name. Fezzari?! Hahahahaha. This is TOO much!
> 
> Even better? Someone titling a thread "Best value FS bike under $3,000". HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! NO "noob" should ever spend $3,000.00 on ANY bike. EVER! Even an awesome sounding FEZZARI! Fezzari. It's Italian for "Motobecane, only $600.00 more, and Italian sounding.":yesnod:
> 
> So just to reiterate. If you've ridden 2,000 miles on a bike? GTFO out the noob forum! You sir, are NOT a noob. $3,000 on a bike? Once again, NOT a noob! Regardless, for the love of all that's good, do NOT buy anything named a "Fezzari." I'm serious with this. There are bike builders like Yeti and Moots who are building beautiful, strong, American made works of art MTB's and not sounding like poseurs while doing it. As a noob even I know this. Seriously. Why does this forum even have a "beginner's" forum if mutual masturbation threads like these are allowed?


:skep: :skep: 
What about Eriksen will you be rotfl too because it's sounded like Sony ericsson:skep:

I still fail to relate the noob-ness with spending $3000 on a bike it's about a mid way price of top of the line and entry level FS. Not all noobs spend $500 on the first bike, I didn't. I didn't see the point of buying a cheap ht so I can "learn" how to choose smoother line. I could afford it and I want something that's more comfortable and yield better margin of error. It's not a requirement that noobs must start with a certain budget and platform. My wife first bike is a custom steel HT from Soulcraft, she's a noob she couldn't have nice bike.

My friend's wife first bike is a $2500 FS she took over from him after 6 months so he can get his new shinny 29er FS bike and he's a noob. He's also a successful architect who can afford it, he should have started a thread about buying his first entry level ht to fit in Just because someone is a beginner does not mean they have to get cheap or used stuff if they don't want to.

I don't know what Fezzari is from but I assume it's the some guy's name like Kuat the combination of the company's 2 founder. You sure are a noob.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Stereotype much, kbohip?


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

Meh... Some people have $500 to spend on a bike, some have $3K. If you're new to something you're a noob regardless of bankroll.

Don't hate the player, hate the game...


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

dciandrew, you say you learned your lesson after outgrowing your $700 road bike after a year, but I think you may have missed the point completely. It only cost you $700 to get you pointed to the bike you were ultimately destined for. This time it's probably going to cost you $2,500 instead.

I say this because I saw several contradictions in what you said you were looking for and what you ended up with.

You might end up loving it, but odds are greater that you will end up preferring something else and will have paid more to haul far more bike (a glorified single pivot all-mountain bike with 150mm travel) than needed up the hill in the process. It's your money and you can spend it any way you wish, but this is a text book example of why it IS a good idea to start with modest hardtail, ride the piss out of it while learning to ride and learning what type of bike truly suits you while saving up for 'that bike'. 

This is like golfing one time, and then buying a $1,000 set of clubs. It might make a nice impression on some folks at the first tee (trailhead), but odds are pretty good that they won't be the right clubs (bike) for your game.


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## honkonbobo (Nov 18, 2006)

jeffj said:


> dciandrew, you say you learned your lesson after outgrowing your $700 road bike after a year, but I think you may have missed the point completely. It only cost you $700 to get you pointed to the bike you were ultimately destined for.


best advice yet. i had to buy my first ride and figure out what i didnt like about it before i really understood what i wanted. some find it is a multiple bike process.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

Wow! Where to begin where to begin?

I sure hope those of you with so much hate work out what ever it is.

I sure hope that you guys with all that condescension and hate aren't in my local club of trail riders and beer drinkers just out to have fun.

Do I even pretend to know as much as you, heck no. But I am a fanboy of Sram and looking for a good deal. I'm not a fan of used if I can afford new. I didn't start this thread to validate myself or anyone else here, just to learn.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread with intelligent and informative information especially whoever it was that mentioned the Fezzari name.

On a side note I have this mental thing about Mongoose. My first bike as an adult before I started road riding back in 2005 was a Mongoose FS that I got at Costco. I know its not the same bike or anywhere close to the quality of the true MTB's they make, but I can't erase out of my mind what a afwul bike it was.


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

kbohip said:


> Wow. Really? $3,000.00? So called noob. Fezzari. FEZZARI?!?!?!?! ROFL! Let me welcome you (as an ACTUAL noob) to the noob forum by saying GTFO of the "noob" forum! There is so much BS in this thread it's sad, and all of you so called "experts" fell for it hook, line, and sinker. First of all, the very fact that anyone named a bike a "Fezzari" and any of you bought it is just hilarious. I mean really, it's F'in HILarious! It's a MTB, not an expensive, beautiful Italian exotic guaranteed to get you laid like that car with the really similar name. Fezzari?! Hahahahaha. This is TOO much!
> 
> Even better? Someone titling a thread "Best value FS bike under $3,000". HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! NO "noob" should ever spend $3,000.00 on ANY bike. EVER! Even an awesome sounding FEZZARI! Fezzari. It's Italian for "Motobecane, only $600.00 more, and Italian sounding.":yesnod:
> 
> So just to reiterate. If you've ridden 2,000 miles on a bike? GTFO out the noob forum! You sir, are NOT a noob. $3,000 on a bike? Once again, NOT a noob! Regardless, for the love of all that's good, do NOT buy anything named a "Fezzari." I'm serious with this. There are bike builders like Yeti and Moots who are building beautiful, strong, American made works of art MTB's and not sounding like poseurs while doing it. As a noob even I know this. Seriously. Why does this forum even have a "beginner's" forum if mutual masturbation threads like these are allowed?


It's painful to think how so many people have offered up their time and advice to you kbohip to help you look for a bike recently. I can't even comprehend why you'd respond to someone in such a manner.

1. Fezzari is a trail system in Utah (Lindon) where the company is located. There is an actual shop with real employees trying to provide a product that people will enjoy. Hence, they named their company for the trails where they live.

2. A noob can spend a bagillion dollars on a bike if they want...who are you or anyone else to say what is an appropriate amount? This is just a ridiculous notion that a noob should only spend x dollars on a bike.

3. 2,000 miles does not equate to advanced rider. Those 2,000 miles could have been spent on pathways or on the road...which in no way relate to mountain biking.

And btw, the car company Ferrari DOES make bikes, and they are made by Campognolo. Way to know your bikes.

Oh, and crongatulations on your Motobecane HT700, kbohip. I hope you log many miles on that bike. Apparently it's already bestowed you with experience and knowledge beyond us mere mortals.

Be safe.


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## kwrides (Oct 12, 2010)

Are you sure there is a Fezzari trail system? I cant find reference to it anywhere. Doesn't mean it's not true, I just cant find a link.


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

kwrides said:


> Are you sure there is a Fezzari trail system? I cant find reference to it anywhere. Doesn't mean it's not true, I just cant find a link.


That's what I recall when I called, but it wasn't the most important thing in my mind and I could have misunderstood. :crazy:

Maybe I'll call this week and let everyone know.


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

This thread took an interesting turn. Where's the popcorn?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

This bike is going to be a real change of pace for you, from your 'cross bike.

I wonder if riding a bike that said "Scattante" on it would make me a poser... What about one that says "LeMond?"

Anyway, have fun. Post some pics when you get it dirty.


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## kwrides (Oct 12, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> This bike is going to be a real change of pace for you, from your 'cross bike.
> 
> I wonder if riding a bike that said "Scattante" on it would make me a poser... What about one that says "LeMond?"
> 
> Anyway, have fun. Post some pics when you get it dirty.


While I am not a fan of viral marketing, I have grown to recognize that people can make their own, hopefully, educated decisions and I hope they end up with a bike they ride and love.

Having said that, Scattante is the worst marketing decision I know. It makes Fezzari sound positively normal.


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## PnkCrnk (Nov 25, 2010)

will-lee wonka said:


> ...There are basically 2 factories that churn out bikes. One in China (Giant) and one in Taiwan from a company called Merida. Merida produces Specialized and many many other brands...I think the Giant factory is where Trek and several other brands are produced...


My Giant Trance X came with a 'FABRIQUE A TAIWAN' sticker.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

dciandrew said:


> Also not interested in building a bike, want to work with the local bike shops.


What happened to this? When I am getting a new one this is the first thing I look at. What do my lbs's sell and which one has the best customer service (friendliness, knowledge, ethics). Then when I find a good shop, I buy a bike from them. To me, at a 3000 pricepoint nearly every brand of bikes has a good offering. There are subtle differences but its about the fun factor right? And I have fun BSing with the guys in the lbs and going on group rides with 'em so I give them my business.

To the OP : the Fezzarri's are some good looking bikes and are one heck of a bargain. Congrats on the purchase, and have fun riding it. :thumbsup:


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## Clones123 (Apr 29, 2010)

kwrides said:


> Scattante is the worst marketing decision I know.


Agreed - sounds like an insult in Italian. Why does Performance need FOUR house brands - Performance, Scattante, Forté *and* Access ? The third one seems lame too. I kinda like "Access" though - sounds okay and it convey's a positive message about making biking affordable. Well, at least it did until this year's monumentally over-priced Prowler and Stealth models.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I didn't realize Access was a house brand. I'd assumed it was something they got on closeout.

Anyway, someone has to employee English majors.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

texasnavy05 said:


> What happened to this? When I am getting a new one this is the first thing I look at. What do my lbs's sell and which one has the best customer service (friendliness, knowledge, ethics). Then when I find a good shop, I buy a bike from them. To me, at a 3000 pricepoint nearly every brand of bikes has a good offering. There are subtle differences but its about the fun factor right? And I have fun BSing with the guys in the lbs and going on group rides with 'em so I give them my business.
> 
> To the OP : the Fezzarri's are some good looking bikes and are one heck of a bargain. Congrats on the purchase, and have fun riding it. :thumbsup:


I tried to work with the LBS, but they couldn't come close to the specs of this bike. The best they could do was the Felt with X7 and it would have cost more. I tried to find reviews of Felt and I couldn't find hardly anything.

FWIW $2600.00 is what I ended up paying which for the wife factor was much better than $3000.00


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

dciandrew said:


> I tried to work with the LBS, but they couldn't come close to the specs of this bike. The best they could do was the Felt with X7 and it would have cost more. I tried to find reviews of Felt and I couldn't find hardly anything.
> 
> FWIW $2600.00 is what I ended up paying which for the wife factor was much better than $3000.00


The wife factor is probably my biggest influence. I am currently trying to convince her that a 575 is more important than a new bedroom set. :madman:


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

texasnavy05 said:


> The wife factor is probably my biggest influence. I am currently trying to convince her that a 575 is more important than a new bedroom set. :madman:


A good wife would have responded with...."You had me at 'Yeti'" ;-)


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

kwrides said:


> Are you sure there is a Fezzari trail system? I cant find reference to it anywhere. Doesn't mean it's not true, I just cant find a link.


HA!! I was mistaken.

The mountain bikes are named after mountain peaks surrounded by trail systems they liked (for ex. Nebo is in Arkansas), but the name Fezzari was a family name of one of the frame designers.

Now I know, and knowing is half the battle...;-)


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Clones123 said:


> Agreed - sounds like an insult in Italian. Why does Performance need FOUR house brands - Performance, Scattante, Forté *and* Access ? The third one seems lame too. I kinda like "Access" though - sounds okay and it convey's a positive message about making biking affordable. Well, at least it did until this year's monumentally over-priced Prowler and Stealth models.


I think it was because Performance bought Supergo and took over their house brands in the process I think they are Scattante, and wayless.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

mimi1885 said:


> I think it was because Performance bought Supergo and took over their house brands in the process I think they are Scattante, and wayless.


They also bought/merged with Nashbar.


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## kwrides (Oct 12, 2010)

Varaxis said:


> They also bought/merged with Nashbar.


And yet still have totally different prices!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

kwrides said:


> And yet still have totally different prices!


Yea. Pays to shop smart, but the fact that Nashbar and Performance are owned by the same entity, is just trivia. Dunno why I blurted that out when it only adds more complexity to it showing how "Performance" sells even more house brands.


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=694096

It looks like the bike I was first looking at has been somewhat problematic with the brain shock.


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## andradeD (Jul 24, 2013)

will-lee wonka said:


> A good wife would have responded with...."You had me at 'Yeti'" ;-)


hahahaha laughin my ass out!


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## andradeD (Jul 24, 2013)

im tryin to make my first new bike buy

i cannot decide what is the best do it all option, i can afford up to 2700

should i buy a stumjumper fsr 
camber carbon comp

Norco sight killer B

santacruz tallboy/ bronson.. (how much is one of those)

salsa horsethief 2


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

FS bikes don't all behave the same when one actually rides them. Demo, demo, demo. Do you have a mountain bike now? What kind of riding do you like to do?


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

andradeD said:


> hahahaha laughin my ass out!


Thanks for opening this up again. It's been so long ago I forgot I even started this thread. I even had to go back and reread everything. Do you ever go back and read a post and say did I write that?

As far as my Fezzari goes I'm still riding it and loving it. However just after owing it a year I took it to the LBS to service the fork and shock and the rear shock needed to be replaced. Since I replaced the rear with the new Fox CTD version I also updated the fork with the CTD. I will say I like the CTD version much more than the RP2 that was replace.

With the CTD put in climb mode it really locks out the suspension to almost no peddle bob at all for climbing the hills. The same goes for the fork.

FWIW this road rider now rides off rode more than on road, all thanks to starting with a little CX racing. I found out what all of you already knew, while there is nothing wrong with road riding it just doesn't have the fun factor of the dirt and when you finish a road ride you drink chocolate milk and when you finish a dirt ride you drink beer.


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## ricky916 (Jun 7, 2011)

still no pictures of the bike??


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## dciandrew (Mar 1, 2011)

ricky916 said:


> still no pictures of the bike??


See these threads:

http://forums.mtbr.com/beginners-corner/fezzari-cascade-peak-my-new-bike-702053.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/beginners-corner/fezzari-cascade-peak-my-new-bike-part-2-a-723145.html


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## Shawnskee22 (Mar 25, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> FS bikes don't all behave the same when one actually rides them. Demo, demo, demo. Do you have a mountain bike now? What kind of riding do you like to do?


Best advice anyone can get. Rep given.

BTW, I put together a little chart based on value for the 2013 models from most of the big vendors. Takes into consideration the warranty, the price, the components and the weight of the bike.

Best Full suspension mountain bike

Any thoughts?


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