# I'm afraid I will like the eMTB too much.



## rmac (Oct 26, 2004)

Soooo, I bike-commute 3 times a week (Spring, Summer, Fall) - 40 miles each day and ride my mountain bike twice a week ~ 45 miles, 5,000 ft of climbing in the same seasons. Winter I will only mountain bike, ~ 4 times per week ~ 50 miles, 5000 ft of climbing. I love the mountain biking and tolerate the commuting (better than driving but all concrete bike path). I realize that although a big part of my MTB riding is for fun it is also for exercise (a lot of exercise - got to justify the poor diet).

Any of you guys now on ebikes getting noticeably less exercise and feeling at least some sense of loss? I love the ebike concept but am fairly sure I will love it so much I may never climb un-assisted ever again... In some ways my question is do you have any desire to do the climbs unassisted and do you still labor up the hills just as much?

Replacing either of the commuter or the mtb with an E feels like a certain reduction in exercise... FWIW I also hit the gym a couple of times a week - tells you how much poor diet I have to burn off.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

I find road ebiking, really uneventful and quite boring. Plus there's really no challenge in it at all. Unless if you always set the power to just Eco+ where all it does is negate the extra weight of the battery+motor. If you do that then whats the point of the Ebike right?

E-MTB is where the true fun of ebiking comes in. If there's any loops that you always avoided because the climb is too steep or too tech. Then E-MTB will make it a welcome challenge. Just make sure to ride within your skill level. The workout is definitely there, but you'll need to do it in more loops and more intensity.

For example;

When I was in better shape (pre-injury). On my mountain bike, I normally do a 20mile/2100' elevation (smooth gentle climbs) loop in about 2-2.5 hours. I will be completely spent (most of the workout was focused on my legs and calves) but enjoyed it a lot.

Now on my E-MTB, if I want to simulate the same workout. I will need to do a 25-30mile/3500-5000' elevation technical loop in about 2 hours. You will not be completely spent, and your heart won't feel like its about explode. But you'll get your workout with a really big grin in your face! (i know its sounds like a sale pitch, but its true) Better yet wear a heart monitor and see for yourself! Riding an E-MTB also helps you focus on technique, instead of just focusing on strength and endurance. You could do that on your true MTB.


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## hummer boy (Aug 23, 2004)

Ill concur with PinoyMtbr. Rode with him yesterday along with 9 other ebikers. After being out of the mountain biking scene for seven years, I was hoping to ease back into this favorite pastime of mine. I think the picture attached will show how much fun it is to ride again.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Damn! I need to lose that gut, thats what happens when you cant properly ride for 1+ years.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

PinoyMTBer said:


> On my mountain bike, I normally do a 20mile/2100' elevation (smooth gentle climbs) loop in about 2-2.5 hours. *I will be completely spent* (most of the workout was focused on my legs and calves) but enjoyed it a lot.
> 
> Now on my E-MTB, if I want to simulate the same workout. I will need to do a 25-30mile/3500-5000' elevation technical loop in about 2 hours. *You will not be completely spent*, and your heart won't feel like its about explode.


Regardless of which is best a workout that leaves you "completely spent" vs. one that doesn't are not equal.

To me it would make more sense for the op to use an electric bike for commuting and ride a mountain bike for fun and exercise.


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## rmac (Oct 26, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Regardless of which is best a workout that leaves you "completely spent" vs. one that doesn't are not equal.
> 
> To me it would make more sense for the op to use an electric bike for commuting and ride a mountain bike for fun and exercise.


It's certainly a fun dilemma. I have actually considered getting the ebike for the two days I don't ride to work because I also make the commute an aggressive workout (partly why I don't commute more than 3 days per week).

You said it well, I suspect I would have more fun but not be completely spent.

Totally get the benefit for those who have been out of it for a while and get a boost out of the eMTB.

Still wondering if some of you are in a similar position of needing/wanting the intense workout and missing it with the ebike...


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

I think if you are looking for an intense workout/are an endorphin junkie, an e-bike for mountain biking is probably not your thing. If you are bored on a long paved commute but don't want to drive a car, an e-bike seems pretty awesome.

-Walt


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

Walt said:


> I think if you are looking for an intense workout/are an endorphin junkie, an e-bike for mountain biking is probably not your thing. If you are bored on a long paved commute but don't want to drive a car, an e-bike seems pretty awesome.
> 
> -Walt


Only shows you have no experience on a modern e-mtb. 

If you want more workout on an e-mtb it's only a button push away, and you are rewarded with more range. Turn off the assist and you will get MORE workout than a mtb. It's a choice. And one you can make on each segment on your trip.

Frankly I'm not even sure the "normal" mtb workout is good for us in the long run. Running is proven now to have many downsides. Constant extreme workouts: the benefits are argued about today in academia. Long term, slow jogging and vigorous walking is better according to a number of studies.

5 ST rides, each quite different, and all I felt like I got great excerise, but I was not dead at the car, and the rest of the evening.

But I'm riding my e-mtb much more than that: it's a serious weapon on the bike path, and where I used to always take the mini to help clients, now I often jump on the bike. It's fast and cool. And the bike path is much more fun than traffic 

OP: you won't sell your mtb, and you can always ride it again. For that matter you can sell the e-mtb if you "like it too much" 

Life is short, and I'm grateful to have lived long enough to get one of these things 

All the negative sniping we see here does not worry me a bit: e-mtb is one of the funnest devices ever made by man, they hurt no one, and no amount of guilt-tripping is going to change that


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

You can turn the assist off? Ok, I could push my old rustbucket KDX up the hills instead of using the motor, too...

If your goal is exercise, you can have it on any bike. But there's no particular reason to add power unless you want to either go further or faster (or get somewhere quicker).

-Walt


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

Walt said:


> Ok, I could push my old rustbucket KDX up the hills instead of using the motor, too...
> 
> -Walt


No, you couldn't. Not any real hills. I can't even push my 160 lb TXT 300 up a real hill. And I'm not that weak. But a 52 LB e-mtb? I have already pushed mine 2K vertical. 

You don't think that was a workout? But it was still fun.

Choices, choices, it's all about a bunch of new choices 

PS It's not assist on or off (I have to think you realize this) there are 4 levels of assist on most e-mtbs. "Eco +" will have you sweating in no time


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

There goes our civilized discussion about this topic.

OP; I have to admit I miss that feeling of accomplishment, when you conquer a very challenging climb on your MTB. 


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Watch out for the "advice" you receive from those who have never ridden an e-MTB. I used mine as a supplement for the first year, not stopping my normal 5-7 MTB rides a week, just adding the e-MTB for errands. Now, I use the e-MTB about once a week in place of the MTB. You can receive as much exercise with an e-MTB as with an MTB, and don't let the e-know nothings fool you; if you're not in a hurry, you can get more exercise by riding your e-MTB with no assist.


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

PinoyMTBer said:


> There goes our civilized discussion about this topic.


What? This is the nicest thread in here. 

Walt and I go at it, but I hold no personal animosity toward him, or anyone else here. Sure I'll argue my case and point out what seems unfair, uninformed or intolerant, but I don't hold grudges against anyone, even TT


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

uhoh7 said:


> What? This is the nicest thread in here.
> 
> Walt and I go at it, but I hold no personal animosity toward him, or anyone else here. Sure I'll argue my case and point out what seems unfair, uninformed or intolerant, but I don't hold grudges against anyone, even TT


Thats good to know! Lets be constructive about our discussions and hopefully it leads us to a common ground where Ebikers and MTBers can work together towards maintaining and getting more trail access.

OP, I wouldn't worry about your concern for loosing your love for MTBing and getting it replaced by E-MTBing. I honestly think it will enhance it! Since you'll be able to do the best of both. You'll discover what "uphill flow" feels like (emtb), join group rides from both groups, have a "quick" 15-20 mile loop during your lunch break (emtb), extended bike packing rides (mtb), epic rides (mtb), the list goes on and on...I think every rider should have an ebike as a part of their quiver! How you use it is up to you.

One more thing, you'll get more upper body workout with an E-MTB.

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## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

Do you not like to climb? If you don't enjoy climbing, you might like the e-bike.

Contrary to some posts here, I've spent time on several e-bikes and I just don't have any desire to own one. I like working on the climbs, it's part of the experience for me. I also prefer rigid single speeds, so maybe I'm just weird.

For the commute, part of me wonders is a 50 lb e-mtb would be more efficient than a good (light) road bike?


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

It does say one thing...
...how much abuse will the e-bike take!

A true testament to durability.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

formula4speed said:


> For the commute, part of me wonders is a 50 lb e-mtb would be more efficient than a good (light) road bike?


Efficiency aside there's no doubt that several hundred extra watts would make the ride easier.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

PinoyMTBer said:


> Now on my E-MTB, if I want to simulate the same workout. I will need to do a 25-30mile/3500-5000' elevation technical loop in about 2 hours..


15 mph average on 'technical' terrain?

Either you are a bike handling god, or 'technical' where you live is a whole lot different than 'technical' where I live.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

I do average about 15-20mph, but that also includes the descent. Here in NorCal we do have some pretty technical trails, but Im sure what I consider technical maybe way to easy for you. It really varies from rider to rider. I'm no expert when it comes to bike/speed control, and I don't claim to be. I know that you ride moto too, so you're probably better than me when it comes to bike handling. But when it comes to controlling a heavy ebike, speed and momentum is what keeps you upright.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I couldn't operate at those sort of speeds on our tech trails without killing myself, even in my wildest dreams (though honestly, I doubt there are many people who could). It would be tough even on a lot of our lift-serviced stuff actually. Interesting.


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

formula4speed said:


> Do you not like to climb? If you don't enjoy climbing, you might like the e-bike.
> 
> Contrary to some posts here, I've spent time on several e-bikes and I just don't have any desire to own one. I like working on the climbs, it's part of the experience for me. I also prefer rigid single speeds, so maybe I'm just weird.
> 
> For the commute, part of me wonders is a 50 lb e-mtb would be more efficient than a good (light) road bike?


You mean, do you like to push your cardio to the limit, and pull up to catch your breath before you faint repeatedly on what looks to be a nice little hill  Yes, if you are fully fit from constant climbing you might get past the stopping on most of them. But coherent speech is out of the question. For that sort of "right to the stop" output, nothing on this earth can equal a mtb.

On the e-mtb, you are often laughing in a climb, and attention goes to line and the surroundings, which are very quiet since your breathing is not deafening. You are spinning and pushing and I will get a light sweat going. Breathing comes up to the level of a vigorous walk, or light jog. Way more fun for me, but tastes differ 

On the commute e-mtb vs road bike is simply a matter of the restriction. At 19mph it's easier when your boost is STD or HIGH on the e-mtb, without a doubt, than a road bike. At 21 all bets are off 

So far I have not been passed by anyone on a bike path. I've learned 20 is moving on a bike.

@Slapheadmofo
Yes, 15mph on technical terrain here = impending disaster. But the e-mtb does really shine on technical moves: you make the switchbacks and roots more often with less angst, but I put my foot down and start over plenty of times as well. That may involve a push to a flatter spot to get going.

What does it feel like? Mountain biking, or what you imagine your mtb ride will be like before the reality of gravity makes 500 grams seem like a ton  That is the real triumph of this engineering and what makes you marvel as you ride. It has nothing in common with moto and everything in common with mtb....if you had hulk thighs and hulk lungs...along with the finesse of a concert pianist. 

Shoot me, I like that feeling :rockon:

Commit by unoh7, on Flickr


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

30 mile 5K averaging 20mph.....that is why we don't want e-bikes on multi use trails. So now you guys can stop the whole "we don't go very fast uphill, its just like a regular bike with a little help" 

OP, if you get an ebike and ride it for a year on your regular loops, you will be in as good as shape as you are now. You won't be able to go back to real mountain biking.


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

sfgiantsfan said:


> 30 mile 5K averaging 20mph.....that is why we don't want e-bikes on multi use trails. So now you guys can stop the whole "we don't go very fast uphill, its just like a regular bike with a little help"


Instead of trying to form impressions from various descriptions on the internet, why don't you just grab one and take a ride? Then you can tell us how crazy it is.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> I couldn't operate at those sort of speeds on our tech trails without killing myself, even in my wildest dreams (though honestly, I doubt there are many people who could). It would be tough even on a lot of our lift-serviced stuff actually. Interesting.


I get the impression you live in Utah. Your tech trails there are beyond technical, they're almost unrideable! I'll really need to up my bike game when I do go there.

Man! I would love to ride the "Whole Enchilada" but with my E-rig, I may not be able to do so legally. I may have to rent a truly bad-ass 160mm+ bike

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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

uhoh7 said:


> Instead of trying to form impressions from various descriptions on the internet, why don't you just grab one and take a ride? Then you can tell us how crazy it is.


Are you questioning PineyMTBer's honesty? I don't need to ride one to know that 15-20mph average is flying.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

sfgiantsfan said:


> 30 mile 5K averaging 20mph.....that is why we don't want e-bikes on multi use trails. So now you guys can stop the whole "we don't go very fast uphill, its just like a regular bike with a little help"


The fastest climb I've done with my Emtb is 14-16mph. That is riding ridiculously hard on smooth hard pack. Add a lil tech or loose that quickly goes down to 8-10mph (still riding very hard). One other fact I wanna point out, when you ride uphill. Gravity is working against you so the moment you stop pedaling you quickly loose momentum as well.

Riding DH with my long and slack 180mm Ebike is so freakin awesome! DH switchbacks still scares the crap out of me tho. So glad it came equipped with Magura MT5 brakes. So far the best brakes I've ever used!!!

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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Walt said:


> You can turn the assist off? Ok, I could push my old rustbucket KDX up the hills instead of using the motor, too...
> 
> If your goal is exercise, you can have it on any bike. But there's no particular reason to add power unless you want to either go further or faster (or get somewhere quicker).
> 
> -Walt


 You crack me up, I picture a back yard full of 1980s Kawie KDXs strew about...


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

One other thing! I dont ride fast on MUTs those trails are simply to crowded specially on the weekends. Its so unsafe to ride fast there. I also yield to ALL other trail users.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Are you questioning PineyMTBer's honesty? I don't need to ride one to know that 15-20mph average is flying.


I admit I like to ride fast and hard! Lets ALL be honest who doesn't! But I do so responsibly, I'm a 44 year old guy and a family man. I WILL NOT ENDANGER OTHERS. Just because I because I like to ride fast.

Yo SFGiants they suck BTW, go Oakland As! Haha!

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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

PinoyMTBer said:


> I get the impression you live in Utah. Your tech trails there are beyond technical, they're almost unrideable!


Even worse - New England.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

PinoyMTBer said:


> I do average about 15-20mph, but that also includes the descent.


That's @ what I average on a road ride with climbs and descents. :thumbsup:

Getting back to the OP, with a commute that long, I'd ebike it for sure, because then I could afford to spend the engergy to do it every day without being fried by the weekend. I had a 20 mile RT commute years back that I did almost every day and it tired me enough that it impacted what I could manage on the weekends, so I had to choose between riding or resting when I could have been riding.


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## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

uhoh7 said:


> You mean, do you like to push your cardio to the limit, and pull up to catch your breath before you faint repeatedly on what looks to be a nice little hill  Yes, if you are fully fit from constant climbing you might get past the stopping on most of them. But coherent speech is out of the question. For that sort of "right to the stop" output, nothing on this earth can equal a mtb.
> 
> On the e-mtb, you are often laughing in a climb, and attention goes to line and the surroundings, which are very quiet since your breathing is not deafening. You are spinning and pushing and I will get a light sweat going. Breathing comes up to the level of a vigorous walk, or light jog. Way more fun for me, but tastes differ


Do you have a rash of MTBers passed out on the side of all the climbs where you ride? That sounds terrible, I must be exceptionally strong since I've never passed out from a climb.

Did you know people make cameras and lenses that can focus for you? It's faster than manual focus and everything, wave of the future I tell you. No reason to do it yourself anymore.

Sarcasm aside, I get some people might not enjoy the effort, but it sounds like the OP enjoys some hard exercise so the e-mtb might not be his thing. Sometimes user experience trumps convenience.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

NEPMTBA said:


> It does say one thing...
> ...how much abuse will the e-bike take!
> 
> A true testament to durability.


In the 2 weeks Ive owned my eMTB, Ive taken it to some spots that are full of rocks and roots with medium sized drops 3-4' to boot.

So far so good! But I do have some concern witht the battery mounts tho, time will tell. Maybe I'll ask Walt if he can build me an eMTB frame.

Walt; I saw your website, man those bikes you built are works of art!

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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

formula4speed said:


> Did you know people make cameras and lenses that can focus for you?


None will hold a candle to rigs like this:


DSC04183 by unoh7, you probably think this is film camera, LOL
and those remotely close in performance are 3 times the size and weight, to big EVEN for a e-mtb 

and.....I said "almost faint"....you are telling me you have never been light headed on a hard climb? 

But it's OK I appreciate the friendly tone of your "hard time", no doubt I deserve one 


Notch by unoh7, on Flickr

That, my friend, is the best 28mm lens ever made....to this day 

and, below (see what you started ) the most famous and coveted 50mm in the history of 35mm photography:

L1051159 by unoh7, on Flickr

But Idaho does demand a great WA:

Steep Slope at Sundown by unoh7, ZM18/4

OK what were we talking about?


Thunder and Light by unoh7, on Flickr


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## Martin.au (Jan 1, 2006)

Oh, a Leica. How quaint.

I don't actually have an issue with Leica's, but there's do appear to be two types of people who buy them, and only one of those types brags about them.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> Even worse - New England.


Big jagged rocks and roots, yeah I do think your technical trails are a bit harder than what we have in the SF Bay Area. But we got those too. You just gotta drive about 2-3 hours towards the Sierras then its game on!

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