# Thoughts on hiking/biking the Continental Divide Trail



## mike_d_1583 (Feb 12, 2008)

Lately I've been thinking about either hiking or biking the entire CDT, about 3,100 miles. Anybody know anybody who has attempted this and if so any advice. 

Probably would start around March or April. Would be fun to bike it but don't know if it's possible due to the terrain. Plus I would have to carry bike tools in case of a breakdown, and tools aren't light. 

Thanks!


----------



## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

From Assiniboine to Lake Louise takes about 10 days kiking (biking not allowed)

The rest from the US north would take easily twice that...From Lake Louise north to Robson would take probaly two months...

So unless you plan on several years summers only you are looking at one long cold winter.

Unless of course you just mean the southern part of the CD.


----------



## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

There's a book about backpacking the length of the trail. I read it a few years ago; a couple did it from south to north. A lot of the trail was undefined. In the south, they were going cross country water tank to water tank on cattle ranches.

Here's a link: 
http://www.amazon.com/Where-Waters-...=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254241848&sr=1-7

I see there are a fair number of hiking guides listed as well, and the book I read was published 12 years ago.

Both amazon and Barnes and Noble's web sites turned up quite a few titles.


----------



## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

The biking version is the Great Divide Route, or the GDR. It crosses the divide roughly 30 times, but no where near the climbing staying on top of the ridges would involve. About 250k vs 500k if I'm not mistaken. I did it back in 2000 and it was fantastic.


----------



## mike_d_1583 (Feb 12, 2008)

9.8m/s/s said:


> The biking version is the Great Divide Route, or the GDR. It crosses the divide roughly 30 times, but no where near the climbing staying on top of the ridges would involve. About 250k vs 500k if I'm not mistaken. I did it back in 2000 and it was fantastic.


Awesome! This is the first I've heard of this trail. About how long did it take to complete? I have plenty of time to kill. Biking it would be funner especially on the downhill runs I would think.


----------



## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

Best place to check it out would be adventurecycling.com. It's mainly dirt and old fire roads, rather than singletrack, but the views are fantastic and some of them are chewed up so bad they might as well be single track. We were regularly doing 30mph+ for 20 or 30 minutes at a time. Think elevation change of 3000 ft over 15 miles. If you do go, the hardest part of the trip will be the planning (food etc) as it is a true wilderness route, but take a look. feel free to pm if you have any specific questions.


----------



## walkre73 (Mar 18, 2006)

If it is adventure that you are seeking , Then check out the tourdivide.org site . I think this will answer a lot of questions for you. :thumbsup:


----------



## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

I've done sections of the BNT ... the Bicentennial National Trail, here on Australia's Great Dividing Range. It has taken me nearly 20 years to ride and carry and push bikes from Northern New South Wales into Victoria. The BNT is the longest trail system on the planet. The tracks range from almost unrecognisable vegetable tunnels to perfectly formed fire trails. Much of the BNT is far more serious than Loop 5 or even Slick Rock at Stromlo, they both look like beginner's tracks compared to much of the BNT.

On the BNT below the Clear Range a few weeks ago. I have a rear rack that attaches to the seat post. I put a couple of things in the back pack and that's all. My camera with only one lens (per trip) is the heaviest thing that I take. I often drive to a point and then do an out and back ... so I guess I've done all of the the ACT and much of the NSW sections (that I've done), twice. I always travel alone on long trips.










I travel lightly. The Colo Wilderness, in the Western Blue Mountains a few years ago.










I still use exactly the same gear (although replaced a few times now) that I found worked well 20 years ago. I found that when I would go out (30 days was my longest single stretch in the bush) and when ever I didn't use an item that I took (excluding essentials like tools and medical kit and a space blanket) any unused item from the previous trip didn't go on my next trip. This is the best tip that I can give you. In the early days I travelled with too much gear, enen when I stripped the gear right down. Could I suggest you have a few days out on the bike and see what non essentials you could have left behind ... and leave them behind.

Some shots from a recent BNT reccy on the historic Oberon Stock Route near Mount Werong, from a few months ago. "The easiest section to ride of the BNT," to quote the BNT site.























































In the Aussie/Kiwi section of the Forum there is a post called 'Epic Rides in Aus?' There might be some useful stuff on that thread, to get your mind around a big trip ... https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=530640 ... Much of what is shown on that thread is from the BNT.

The hardest thing about doing a real epic ... is just starting? The rest of it is then easy. When I first started, I did the hardest and most remote New South Wales sections of the BNT like New England, Hernani, Barrington, Oxley, Guy Faulks, now I'm just joining the dots with the easier valley and farmland sections close to home. It has been a wonderful journey ... and there are still thousands of k's to go north of NSW. I bought a new bike yesterday, possibly for the Mount Werong via Waiborough to Mulligan's Flat, which is +300 klicks of the BNT, if I get distracted and wander off the trail, even more distance. I always allow good time to do side trips.

One thing also to be particularly aware of is that if a trail has a dual purpose use, like horse riding and walking, often the track notes are written by non bikers. Who could advise the use of public roads and fire trails to skirt around what they consider to be not navigable track for biker. Often the parts of a track recommended by others to be avoided are the best mountain biking sections.

Finally, one thing that should be budgeted for, for an epic like this, are the maps. I like the 1:25,000 topos. I've spent well over a thousand dollars on the maps that cover the strip needed from the Queensland Border to the Victorian Border of the sections that I have done. In NSW there are something like 64 X 1:25,000 topo maps covering the trail. If I did the entire 5,500 kilometre trail ... I'd need to find a wealthier wife.










Warren.


----------



## GregB406 (Dec 19, 2005)

Although it's really off topic and a long ways away, the divide trail down under looks really cool.

I can speak about the CDT in Montana, and it is extremely rideable. There is two wilderness area in Montana, and of course Yellowstone and Glacier National Parks where one must hike, but in between there is a huge amount of great riding, about 450 miles or so. Plan to ride a large amount of the CDT. Riding will shorten the trip by well over a month.


----------



## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

GregB406 said:


> Although it's really off topic and a long ways away, the divide trail down under looks really cool.


Mike asked for "thoughts" ... not just track notes.

When this thread first started I went and read about the CDT, and I was surprised at how similar the trails are to undertake. The logistics to undertake either trail are similar in many ways for both cycling and hiking no matter which continent the trails are on.

Both trails runs N to S and cross several States and require a large number of maps. Wilderness areas and National Parks and State Forests and major ecological areas are traversed. The distances are similar, and can take an equivalent amount of time to complete both trails for riders and hikers. Major national trails come off both tracks. The minimum trail altitudes are similar, the total gain in altitude climbing on both trails is huge ... absolutely huge. The resupply to extremely remote areas is very difficult and time consuming and finding good water supplies on both trails can be difficult. Both trails are not well marked in places. Both trails have large sections of track that are hardly ever used. Both trails are subject to extremes of weather and snow travel. Permit systems and right of access can be difficult to arrange on both trails and a large degree of self reliance and having an intrepid nature are essential ... not to mention, that the creatures found on both trails can kill humans and if you are a lone traveller with a life threatening injury, you can be a long way from help.

I'm so far off-the-track by giving my thoughts on a long distance ride in remote areas, that I was "off-topic?" ... I don't think so. Otherwise, I wouldn't have wasted my time posting.

Warren.


----------



## GregB406 (Dec 19, 2005)

Warren, point well taken. You are right in all those respects, and very on topic.

However, you are "off-continent".

Both trails and concepts are beyond epic category. I certainly envy those that can do it. I am thrilled to just do pieces of the CDT each summer.


----------



## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

GregB406 said:


> However, you are "off-continent."


I always will be, but mtbr 'is' an International site not just a US site, for covering 'Vacations and Destinations'. There are 282 Australian trails in the mtbr's Trail Review Section ... well, please include the BNT now as #283. I live beside the BNT, the trail passes only 100 metres from my front door, on the NW border of the Australian Capital Territory in the northern spurs of the Australian Alps.










Warren.


----------



## MaxxCutts8 (Nov 7, 2008)

I'e hiked a very small portion of the divide and it was beautiful. I strongly recommend it to anyone that hasn't been.


----------



## mike_d_1583 (Feb 12, 2008)

thanks all for the advice, will let you what i decide


----------



## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

Starting that early, March-April, would be tough with lots of winter to endure if you start on the northern end. The Continental Divide race starts in June. If starting that early bring snow shoes and wool.
However if you start in New Mexico much would be doable but you reach the mountains of central New Mexico and Colorado.


----------



## rayray74 (Sep 18, 2005)

http://www.ridingthespine.com/main.html

I kept up with these guys journal entries and photos for a while. I also followed the race a couple of years ago. Those guys on single speeds....wow!


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Dono about the rest, but I either did horseback or backpack much of the Montana divide and its simply not possible to use a bike. Gets pretty rugged, and very lonely. I attended a seminar with two guys who had backpacked it the entire divide, was very interesting, as already mentioned, much of it there is no trail. When going through any wilderness area your mountain bike will not be allowed.


----------



## GregB406 (Dec 19, 2005)

I gotta disagree with Blurr. The vast majority of the CDT is rideable from Yellowstone to the Pintlars. And then also north from the Pintlars to the Scapegoat Wilderness boundaries. Of course it's lonely, that's the idea.

The Pintlars is presently the only wilderness on that southern Montana portion of the CDT. In Senator Testers bill there is pieces of the Centennial Range, the Lima Peaks, and Italian Peak all proposed for wilderness. The CDT is very rideable in those areas, but technically off limits now due to recent Forest Service prohibition. It is some of the best, loniest, riding in the state.


----------



## rayray74 (Sep 18, 2005)

http://www.dirtragmag.com/blogarific/forest-service-decision-continental-divide-trail

How will this affect the proposed wilderness?


----------



## GregB406 (Dec 19, 2005)

Really not one way or the other. A wilderness bill can be quite independant of Forest Service policy. It is, in effect, it's own animal. I wish there had to be some coordination between Forest planning, National Forest policy, travel planning, county commissioners, and of course, us.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

GregB406 said:


> I gotta disagree with Blurr. The vast majority of the CDT is rideable from Yellowstone to the Pintlars. And then also north from the Pintlars to the Scapegoat Wilderness boundaries. Of course it's lonely, that's the idea.
> 
> 
> > Most people have no Idea what they are getting into on something like this, so the lonely part is really something to think about. I like it, but it is what gets many into trouble.
> ...


----------



## GregB406 (Dec 19, 2005)

Blurr said:


> GregB406 said:
> 
> 
> > I gotta disagree with Blurr. The vast majority of the CDT is rideable from Yellowstone to the Pintlars. And then also north from the Pintlars to the Scapegoat Wilderness boundaries. Of course it's lonely, that's the idea.
> ...


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

No sense turning this into a Political thing on wilderness area's ,if you would like to chat further about it I would be willing to start a thread in the Political section. 

hope Mike takes time to explore some of this country, will be an amazing experience.


----------



## mike_d_1583 (Feb 12, 2008)

Thanks all for the advice and great pics.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

If you do this make sure you pack light, but responsibly. I also suggest carrying a pistol, My father always said "there is no animal I worry about in the woods, but humans on the other hand...."
With Meth labs being a huge problem in various area's it is something to consider.

let us know

one more pic to entice ya.


----------



## mike_d_1583 (Feb 12, 2008)

Yea I wish I had a gun to keep the freaks back, unless it's on my hip it wouldn't do much good in my bag though. Maybe I should just take my M-79 grenade launcher.....


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

lol, maximum firepower FTW!!!!

shoulder harness work nicely.

these are uber small and actually fit into your shirt pocket, not the best for plinking but for self defense in a pinch it will do the job, worthless against a bear, but would be fine for people, yotes, wolves ect. 
http://www.keltecpistols.com/category/389-Kel_Tec_380_Pistols.aspx


----------



## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

Mike_d_1583, so how is your trip planning going?

My next assault on the BNT has taken me about 30 days (full-time) to organise. Just to cut through the crap. 

To organise the esentials, codes to the combination locks on National Park gates, to organise fuel drops, to organise access to properties, to organise permission to stay on Crown Land, then to do reccys because of busllshiibptt crappy advice, to purchase maps (which has surprisingly been unbelievably difficult to do), to read through fraudulent track notes, to finally receive orders for essential equipment for the bike weeks in arriving ... but mostly, to wade through the rubbish people claim that the track is about, when obviously they haven't even done it.

What I have learnt about taking on extreme trails, is that most of the advice that I've been given, are just lies from BS artists. Truly. For the number of cyclists who claim to have ridden the BNT here, I don't think so. They and I have obviously been doing different tracks. I hope that in the US that your fellow journeymen aren't as fraudulent and as flaky as Australians are.

Here in Australia, people claim to have done sections of the BNT, and I ask them, stuff like, "When do I have to start the portage on Rocky Creek how long did your portage take, can I make it to Pheasants Creek before the portage?" "Where did you cross the Macley River, upstream or down stream of Georges Creek?" ... no replies and then they promptly disappear.

Warren.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Wild Wassa said:


> Mike_d_1583, so how is your trip planning going?
> 
> My next assault on the BNT has taken me about 30 days (full-time) to organise. Just to cut through the crap.
> 
> ...


people in general are flaky and like to "belong" so they make stuff up to show they are part of the crowd, there is a saying, that if as many people attended woodstock as claim to have, the earth would have tilted on its access (slight exaggeration but you get the point)

For maps, cant you download some? Buying hard maps here from the Forest Circus can be a real pain in the arse as well.

Good luck on your trip, look forward to your pics.


----------



## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

Blurr, he he he, very funny. Very funny for "Forest Circus" too and thank you Mate.

Here in Australia, I'll often read, touring cyclist's comments that the downloaded maps share little relationship to reality. I order the paper maps with my plastic, and in the time it takes to process the order the price has gone up. So I reply to an email from the supplier saying, please make the changes I just want the maps, I don't care about the small extra cost. Then in the time it takes the supplier to process my re-order the price changes again by a few dollars, then I get another email saying that the price has gone up again, do I still want the maps ... honestly, being here in Australia is like being in an old Keystone Cops movie. All I'm doing is chasing my tail. This has been going on for weeks.

I'm riding the Bicentennial National Trail for the photography and to see if what people are saying about sections of the BNT not being suitable for biking ... are actually navigable to ride. Every place that has been considered dodgy by others has so far, been a pleasure to ride.

Some of the advice I've received about riding the BNT in Northern New South Wales is riding on main roads hundreds of kilometres off the actual trail. Google Maps shows the BNT in the wrong spot in several places. The BNT is a living trail and changes regularly when properties change hands. Even Google Maps shows the BNT in the street where I live and it changed here 20 years ago ... being given the wrong information in Northern NSW,is dangerous and could require hundreds of kilometres of back tracking and effectively climbing the equivalent of Mount Everest several times unnecessarily.

Maybe there is an alternate universe out there, like a 'Stargate BNT' and I haven't found the portal, yet ... while everyone else has.

My cat Alice and I are working out where we think that the trail goes from Killarney in Southern Queensland to the Barrington Tops in New South Wales about 500 kilometres, using New South Wales State Forestry maps, while we wait for the updated maps. I'm taking these forestry maps because NSW State Forests is conducting a photographic competition called 'The Living Forests' ... I'm hoping my work will be hard to beat. The locations I've chosen, will be extremely hard to beat.










After I took this photo two more maps turned up, the State Forests of the Walcha Region and the State Forests of the Bathurst Region ... I might have to move the furniture. I might also have to get a map table accessory for the BOB or I'll put the maps in a bit of PVC down pipe with screw on end caps ... and strap the pipe to the BOB. Normally touring cyclists post the maps home after they are finished with a map ... interesting. The service towns are few and far between out on the Great Divide and are seriously off the trail and the word mechanical, does not create an image of a 3 hour epic to post in 'Passion'.

I was reading an account of a journey by a chap who did the BNT a few years ago on horse back, back in 1990. One of his first recommendations was to include a high quality machete in the kit of essentials. A machete could be useful for decapitating a Velociraptor (Velo as in cycling?) or for dismembering the packs of wild dogs more likely.

I came across this mobile on the BNT past Mount Werong in the Kanangra-Boyd Wilderness ... I'd like to dedicate this find to the Master of Mobile Sulpture, Alexander Calder.










'The Maker of Clouds', Mountains of the Wild Dogs, Kanangra-Boyd Wilderness.










Warren.


----------

