# vicious cycles future?



## korbs (Oct 19, 2009)

Does anyone know if carl has called it quits? Ive heard a few rumors ... some that he has taken a break to work on his house... all the way to how he fired all his employees and has stopped taking orders? I was told that today by a dude at a lbs.... 

I would be sad to hear that if he has, his work is both beautiful and high quality.....


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

is there some purpose in spamming the internet with this question? Have you considered asking them, or is this just rumor mongering?


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## korbs (Oct 19, 2009)

*Harsh. And of course there is a purpose...*



unterhausen said:


> is there some purpose in spamming the internet with this question? Have you considered asking them, or is this just rumor mongering?


harsh... man, I am the last person to try and spread lame rumors... this is what ive heard and i was hoping someone out there knows better than I do. Ive been asking around to dealers in PA, DE, NY, and MD ( i live in PA )... and most of them seem to either ignore my inquiries or reply with intentions of moving my focus towards other frame builders. I even talked to a mec at a new paltz shop and he spoke of carl taking a break to work on his house... So before you starting calling me a rumor monger and spammer, hear me out a bit further.

I have even emailed Vicious directly with inquiries to custom frame orders... no reply... 
My question is why would this guy tell me that? My intentions are not to spread lame rumors ... but to debunk them.

Yes i should have included a little more information in my inital post but i didnt. Lets all be friends, and try to remember were all here for the same reason.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

a smaller company lives and dies by its reputation. Bike shops are one of the worst sources of info I can imagine. It takes a fairly large company to keep in contact with all their dealers on a regular basis. And you never know why a bike shop worker tells you things, but money is a good guess because it's a tough business.

Sorry if you think I was harsh


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## mojojojoaf (Sep 9, 2008)

call them direct? email? is there no contact for them?


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## korbs (Oct 19, 2009)

unterhausen said:


> a smaller company lives and dies by its reputation. Bike shops are one of the worst sources of info I can imagine. It takes a fairly large company to keep in contact with all their dealers on a regular basis. And you never know why a bike shop worker tells you things, but money is a good guess because it's a tough business.
> 
> Sorry if you think I was harsh


All is well. I was off my mark. My main goal here is to ride a frame that fits me perfectly, down the perfect road, on a perfect morning. I bet anyone could relate to that. I was crazed to hear such words, I have been literally obsessed with completing this 'mission'. Frankly that bike mec hurt my feelings! Heh no, I bet all he wanted me to do was buy one of their bikes. Like you said, its all about money in this business. 
Anyway. Thanks. I will post once ive heard something!


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## korbs (Oct 19, 2009)

mojojojoaf said:


> call them direct? email? is there no contact for them?


there is, Ive just heard nothing thus far.


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## Linnaeus (May 17, 2009)

unterhausen said:


> Bike shops are one of the worst sources of info I can imagine.


Amen.


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## Hitman1 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Same problem here*

I called Vicious back in August to inquire about one of their full suspension steel bikes and had to leave a voicemail (which was never returned). I have emailed them 6 times since April this year and have never received a response. I even emailed Vicious dealers and all of them got back with me, but claimed that they didn't know anything. I am guessing that they are out of business, but honestly no idea. I guess I could order a T shirt from their webstore and see if it actually gets shipped to me?


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

Lots of builder out there.

Choose one who responds


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## Hitman1 (Jun 26, 2008)

I did, I decided to go with Carl Strong. He was awesome to deal with. Still disappointed though that Vicious Cycles never got back with me. I guess it doesnt matter too much now since they were using Titus rear ends for their FS bikes and Titus is out of business. Oh well.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

unterhausen said:


> a smaller company lives and dies by its reputation. Bike shops are one of the worst sources of info I can imagine. It takes a fairly large company to keep in contact with all their dealers on a regular basis. And you never know why a bike shop worker tells you things, but money is a good guess because it's a tough business.
> 
> Sorry if you think I was harsh


Wow... Jaded much? Not all bike shops are equal. Some of them can be excellent sources of information. If you go to shop that has never even sold an XT level bike don't expect them to be experts on some niche bike stuff that you got on the internet or give you a discount on it especially if that dealer that you visit isn't a dealer of the bike you brought in. Like having proprietary parts or obscure parts in stock or to even know what obscure thing you're bringing in is. Also just because something is easy to obtain on the internet, doesn't mean it's easy for a dealer to get it any cheaper or faster than you can on your own. Thule small parts cost the dealer the same thing they cost a consumer and takes the same time to get.

You think MTBR is a better source of information? This has to be one of the most biased web sites I've ever seen. Even more biased than Mountain Bike Action magazine. Based on this web site all Trek bikes are the worst product on the market and square taper bottom brackets and 8 speed XTR are the best components. There is extreme bias everywhere.

Shops might be push what they sell, but most shop guys aren't any different than anyone else here. They are bike enthusiasts and some aren't; however, most don't get paid sales commission and have no reason to defame niche boutique brands. In fact small brands come and go and some brands would beg to be placed in some stores.


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## wvucyclist (Nov 8, 2007)

Damnit, I didn't know titus was done until right now. I just got my motolite this summer. I've never broken a bike, and I sure hope I don't start now.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

GTR-33 said:


> Wow... Jaded much? Not all bike shops are equal. .


nothing like getting p.o.'d over a 5 month old post


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## kaiser2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Has anymore light been shone on VC's status?


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## Hitman1 (Jun 26, 2008)

I still haven't heard anything. I tried calling some dealers and none of them seemed to know anything either. I am guessing their done. Still not answering email or their phone. Even if they were still in business, don't think I would do business with them because of the piss poor customer service. Over a year with no returned email or call back. Not cool. I wound up getting a bike from Carl Strong. Great experience, would deal with him again.


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## Va_Dinger (Jul 16, 2011)

I just had the same experiences with Vicious Cycles.

Being originally from upstate NY myself I was interested in buying one of their frames for my new bike. I had it narrowed down to a Vicious Cycles Motivator 29er or a Trek/Gary Fisher Superfly. I called 5-6 times and no one ever answers. I had to leave voicemails on both the “Sales” number and several on Carl’s direct line. I also emailed them several times. I never got a call back or an email reply to any of them. It’s a shame; I always liked the idea of a hand built frame from my native New York. I guess I waited too long.


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## Metatron (Aug 11, 2011)

I live in New Paltz, I'll give Carl a ring and ask him whats up tomorrow morning. I was hoping to have him or one of his lackies build me a Casual Agent for next summer. As far as the whole rumor thing goes, I've heard that he closed shop, but I only heard that today at a shop coincidentally. I had heard two far worse rumors that I will not repeat until we know for sure whats up.


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## Metatron (Aug 11, 2011)

Ok, just got off the horn, yeah, closed shop. Sorry all.


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## Va_Dinger (Jul 16, 2011)

It's a shame. 

I always wanted one of their frames.


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

Metatron said:


> Ok, just got off the horn, yeah, closed shop. Sorry all.


Is he calling it a total wrap or still doing components/rims? 
Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.


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## eMcK (Aug 22, 2007)

coconinocycles said:


> Is he calling it a total wrap or still doing components/rims?
> Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.


Last I heard he was pretty stoked about getting OE spec on the Salsa fat bike, but that was months ago.


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## wyatt79m (Mar 3, 2007)

Bummer, I always admired the frames...


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## vpd7 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Vicious still in busiiness?*

I stopped by the "Vicious Cycles shop" this past Friday. It was tough to determine where the business actually was. Thank God for GPS. It didn't look like there was any "business" going on. I drove around the building, and it was open. Carl was there, he showed me the shop, and bicycles under construction.

Carl claims that he is still in business, still building bikes,but he's down to just himself. Claims it's tough to keep good help at the prices he can afford to pay. He's currently producing parts for the overseas market (thank God someone still does) which has taken a tremendous amount of his time. He acknowledged that he has a difficult time answering e-mails, and phone calls.

Anyone waiting for a frame? I could possibly check the next time I pass by.

It would be a shame for him to go under. He has a large inventory of tubes, plus a large number of machines, several which are task dedicated. I wanted to see the system for purging the titanium frames during welding, since this is critical for a proper titanium weld. He was very open and willing to discuss every aspect of bike building. He puts a lot of thought into the construction.

Bottom line, he's open, but it seems he has his hands full.


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

I think Carl is a good guy and has a good heart but has obviously made some bad choices (some of them with us), as we all have at some point.

No ill-will here and I hope he reinvents himself and comes out fighting. He builds a mean frame when he's got all his ducks in a row.


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## playpunk (Apr 1, 2005)

My experience with Vicious cycles has been overwhelmingly bad. I am not surprised that they can't make it, because Carl obviously doesn't know how to run a business. At all.


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## pyranha (Aug 7, 2007)

vpd7 said:


> I stopped by the "Vicious Cycles shop" this past Friday. It was tough to determine where the business actually was. Thank God for GPS. It didn't look like there was any "business" going on. I drove around the building, and it was open. Carl was there, he showed me the shop, and bicycles under construction.
> 
> Carl claims that he is still in business, still building bikes,but he's down to just himself. Claims it's tough to keep good help at the prices he can afford to pay. He's currently producing parts for the overseas market (thank God someone still does) which has taken a tremendous amount of his time. He acknowledged that he has a difficult time answering e-mails, and phone calls.
> 
> ...


Carl has always been nice to me and answered any questions I have had. Seems like a pretty ok guy. Last I spoke with him he was pretty busy.

You will find that most custom frame makers shops are hard to find. Of the ones I know the owners of, they are either in their garage, some warehouse space, small outbuilding in the woods, etc. The vast majority of custom builders make lass than 150-200(and I am being extremely liberal here) frames per year. It is not high volume, it does not take a big neon sign out front, and it does not take a lot of space.


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